From me at nospam.com  Tue Oct  5 16:35:38 2004
From: me at nospam.com (Lorin Hochstein)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:35:38 -0400
Subject: Retrieving the full path of Unix apps
In-Reply-To: <4163013c$0$59513$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <cjuu5v$2n7$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>
	<4163013c$0$59513$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <cjv0i1$3ti$2@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-10-05, Lorin Hochstein <me at nospam.com> wrote:
>
> 
> Do you care _which_ path you end up with in the case where
> there are multiple ones that end in the filename of interest?
> 
> Are you assuming that the program is in one of the directories
> listed in the PATH environment variable?
> 

Sorry, I should've been more clear. I am assuming the program is in one 
of the directories listed in the PATH environment variable. I want the 
same one that 'which' will return: the one that would get invoked if 
someone just typed in the name of the program at the command-line.

> 
> You could grab the value of the environment variable PATH, and
> search those directories for the file in question.  That's
> pretty much what the 'which' command does.
> 

That does seem more elegant than relying on 'which'.

Thanks,


Lorin



From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Oct  2 11:54:00 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 08:54:00 -0700
Subject: limitations of current logging package
References: <2e37dc1.0409230442.7e74543d@posting.google.com>
	<4edc17eb.0409232031.66ad3d4e@posting.google.com>
	<2e37dc1.0409260220.6ad5cb6c@posting.google.com>
	<JqSdnXgsbLTkosXcRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410020754.739f8744@posting.google.com>

> The above shows clearly that one can use logging in a simple
> way, but as Michael points out, it's not well documented how
> simple it can be.  Even having read this thread and knowing
> in advance that I could do that, I wasn't able to find the
> relevant information easily in the documentation with
> several minutes of reading (and several minutes covers a
> lot of territory normally).  Even when I found the comments
> about the shortcut functions, I wouldn't have been certain
> how to use them (as above) because an example is missing.

The following documentation, which is in  CVS for Python and will be
part of the next release, does give information for simple usage:

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/minimal-example.html

> 2) I wanted my log files written to the application's own
> directory, rather than to the current directory.  Using
> the fileConfig capability, you can't, at least not without
> using absolute paths (near as I can tell).
> 
> My hack workaround was to prepopulate the logging module's
> vars() with one call _app_path, and then to reference that
> in the config file in the following way.  This works only
> because (a) eval is used on the args, and (b) the os module
> has already been imported by logging.__init__:
> 
> (in the main code:)
> logging._app_path = MY_APP_PATH
> logging.config.fileConfig(MY_CONFIG_FILE)
> 
> (in the config file:)
> [handler_hand01]
> class=handlers.RotatingFileHandler
> level=NOTSET
> formatter=form01
> args=(os.path.join(_app_path, 'bod.log'), 'a', 10000000, 9)
> 
> 
> Now I can sort of see why the second issue might be awkward
> to resolve (since it is in effect a problem that appears in
> various other ways in the Python world, with no standard
> solution, mainly because there's no simple "sys.getappdir()"
> or whatever it would be called).

You can simply say something like

logging.mymodule = mymodule

and in the config file, the args for the file handler can, instead of
specifying the file name, reference a function such as
mymodule.getpathname('myapp.log'), where getpathname prepends the
appropriate path.

In the same way, you can reference handlers defined in your own module
in the
config file.

> For the first problem, I think the exc_info "flag" should be
> changed so that if it contains actual exception info, or
> maybe just a tuple of three items, then *that* information
> is logged instead of a call to sys.exc_info() being made.

Not quite true, although the documentation could be a little clearer.
Originally, the exc_info flag was checked for true/false, and this
check still holds for deciding whether exception info is logged.
However, in recent versions, if an exception tuple (in the same format
as returned by sys.exc_info()) is passed, sys.exc_info() is not called
and the passed tuple is used instead. I aim to update the
documentation to reflect this.
 
Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Mon Oct 25 03:49:26 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 08:49:26 +0100
Subject: how do i change from string to list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5408.1098688267.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>	<417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>	<417c1cda$0$152$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>	<c76ff6fc.0410241958.7222d1f0@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5408.1098688267.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clib6b$9ur$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
> How do you do the opposite? List to string? Shortest method I've found is:
> 
>>>>''.join(["H", "e", "l", "l", "o"])

That is the obvious way to do it.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From jdc at uwo.ca  Wed Oct  6 15:36:19 2004
From: jdc at uwo.ca (Dan Christensen)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 15:36:19 -0400
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu> (Fernando Perez's message of
	"Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:30:41 -0600")
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <87d5zvwsek.fsf@uwo.ca>

Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:

>> Andr? N?ss <andre.naess at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> One thing I liked about Lisp was the ability to use the question mark
>>> (and the exclamation mark) in function names.
>
> Well, there would go the two remaining special, useful chars in ipython:
>
> In [4]: x?
...
> In [5]: !uname -a
...

If python only allowed ! and ? at the end of identifiers, then !uname
would be fine, and ?x could be used in place of x?

But the problem mentioned in other post with code like x!=0 is more
serious. 

Dan


From nelson at monkey.org  Sun Oct 17 21:07:25 2004
From: nelson at monkey.org (Nelson Minar)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:07:25 GMT
Subject: md5 and large files
References: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<4172a5f6$0$28202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4172AA52.9030606@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <cpafz4cal6a.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>

Brad Tilley <rtilley at vt.edu> writes:
> I would like to verify that the files are not corrupt so what's the
> most efficient way to calculate md5 sums on 4GB files? The machine
> doing the calculations is a small desktop with 256MB of RAM.

If all you want to do is verify that a file is not corrupt, MD5 is the
wrong algorithm to use. Use something fast like crc32.

If you're worried about corruption anywhere in the file, then testing
the first 4k isn't going to help you very much.

If you really need it to be efficient, don't use Python. Use a native
program like md5sum or sum or something.

If this is you're homework, you'll learn a lot more by figuring it out
yourself.


From theller at python.net  Thu Oct  7 15:34:28 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 21:34:28 +0200
Subject: Inline returning of function objects
References: <mailman.4527.1097176424.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vfdm2ugr.fsf@python.net>

dataangel <k04jg02 at kzoo.edu> writes:

> I've been finding more and more crazy stuff that you can do in Python,
> and I was curious if it could handle this (it couldn't):
>
> def foo(x):
>     return def bar(y):
>        pass
>
> I was wondering why there's support for this for lambda functions but
> not normal functions. I tried variations in the syntax like
> surrounding the function definition with parenthesis but none worked.

but you can write:

def foo(x):
    def bar(y):
        pass
    return bar

Thomas


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct  1 07:56:24 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 01 Oct 2004 14:56:24 +0300
Subject: Emacs is going to die! =( [was Re: Emacs + python (Was Re:
	python is going to die! =()
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<278de0e.0409201131.57baf7f9@posting.google.com>
	<414f61bf$0$29449$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<rwJ3d.1000$g42.675@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<87hdprv3qd.fsf_-_@ion.xlipstream.com>
	<du7fz5a8tte.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<cdd4e677.0410010149.50b50324@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4171.1096625088.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7sm8y3b4n.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Richie" == Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> writes:

    Richie> 1. There is no File/Open.  You can't just open an
    Richie> arbitrary file and edit it; the file must be part of a
    Richie> project.  This makes (some) sense

File / Open external file. It's not drag-and-drop, but better than
nothing.

    Richie> 2. In the Python debugger (I was using the PyDev plugin) a
    Richie> Step took between 3 and 4 seconds on my 3GHz PC.  (I'd
    Richie> previously tried

I tried the debugger only briefly - it was not that slow. It wasn't
snappy, but at least it felt faster than w/ some older version of
PyDev (that was pydev 0.6.1).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 03:27:45 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:27:45 +0200
Subject: UNIX-style sort in Python?
References: <I-6dnfLpv8Gzl-7cRVn-sw@comcast.com>
	<41734491$0$27969$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1glui57.aaac91au1t84N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

> On 2004-10-18, Kotlin Sam <xavier_onasis at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > For a while at least I have to work in Windows rather than UNIX, which
> > is more familiar. I'm trying to do with Python some of the things that
> > I've done for years in shell, in particular, sort. The shell sort is
> > pretty easy to use:
> 
> Sounds like you need to install Cygwin so you have a real bash
> shell and all of the normal shell utilities.

An excellent piece of advice.  Cygwin has occasionally save my sanity in
the past when the weakness of Windows' cmd.exe was getting to me...!-)


Alex


From sean.carey at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 18:47:09 2004
From: sean.carey at gmail.com (Sean  Carey)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 15:47:09 -0700
Subject: Python script that generates blob files
Message-ID: <1097189229.883950.253450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I am wondering if anyone knows of a python script or any other script
that will generate random files with random sizes that I can specify.
Thanks

Sean



From lbates at syscononline.com  Thu Oct  7 09:37:30 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:37:30 -0500
Subject: generating emails from Python
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0410070159.1b9e670f@posting.google.com>
References: <4edc17eb.0410070159.1b9e670f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ZcKdncWX1pQE2_jcRVn-iw@comcast.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> Is it possible, using email.MIMEMessage, to generate an email with
> both HTML and plain text content, in such a way that:
> 1) it is displayed as HTML if the email client recognizes HTML;
> 2) it is displayed as plain text if the email client is HTML impaired?
> 
> I realize that the answer is most probably no, but one can always hope
> ...
> 
>       Michele Simionato

Google is your friend:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/67083

Larry Bates


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct  8 07:23:49 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:23:49 +0200
Subject: How to determine if a file is busy?
References: <c89d662c.0410080246.52ed9407@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck5tc4$jfn$02$1@news.t-online.com>

> I have written a stay-open-AppleScript for Mac OS X, gathering certain
> informations from different apps, which can only be gathered via
> AppleScript. This script writes its informations into a simple text
> file, every 15 seconds. And a python script is supposed to read this
> text file on a regular basis in order to feed the aquired datat into a
> database working only on Windows. Now the problem: How can I prevent
> that the python script reads the content of the text file, while my
> AppleScripts writes new information to it? Is there any 'busy'-status
> for files?

You could use a file-lock using the module fcntl.lock operation on the file
descriptor of your file. That ensures that only when the writing is
completed, the reading can occur. Check

man flock

on your console/terminal. But that works only on _one_ machine. When you
have a shared filesystem that two different OSes access, you might be
better off with a protocol of some sort - by that I mean that you use e.g.
http-style header information. So your producer-script gathers data - lets
say 4000 bytes - and writes this to the file:

Content-Length: 4000

<data>

Then your consumer-script reads the header. Only after that is fully
received and understood, it knows how many bytes to expect after the second
newline and won't start processing earlier.

Apart from that, the usecase you describe cries for a decent
inter-process-communication. You could e.g. use XMLRPC, PYRO, CORBA or the
like. That would free you from the necessity of a shared filesystem between
windows and macosx, and from implementing a protocol.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Oct  1 06:00:45 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:00:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cjj9sd$hg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

tim.tadh at gmail.com (Tim Henderson) writes:

>Hi
>I want to dynamically generate a graph in python that would be
>displayable on a web page. What would be the best way to do this?

>The reason I want to do this, is because I am making a program to
>convert data from scientic probes into web pages. I have been able to
>do every thing except the graph generation.


http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/gdmodule.html

is what I use.


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 15:09:41 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 19:09:41 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-25, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:

>> I guess I could just tell py2exe to also include the .py files
>> in the install directory.  There's still the problem of the
>> time/cost required to support them.
>> 
>>> But as long as you don't mind people seeing, redistributing,
>>> and modifying your source,
>> 
>> The problem is the time spent answering questions and helping
>> the people who have the source code.
>
> Whatever gave you the idea you are obligated to provide support?!

Experience.

Customers seem to have no problem with not getting source code,
but once you _do_ give them source code then you have to
support it.  Ignoring customers when they ask questions about
the source code has always proven in past experience to be "not
an option."

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  If elected, Zippy
                                  at               pledges to each and every
                               visi.com            American a 55-year-old
                                                   houseboy...


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct  7 18:24:51 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:24:51 GMT
Subject: Graceful detection of EOF
In-Reply-To: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
Message-ID: <Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

MickeyBob wrote:
> How does one detect the EOF gracefully? Assuming I have a pickle file
> containing an unknown number of objects, how can I read (i.e.,
> pickle.load()) until the EOF is encountered without generating an EOF
> exception?

Why isn't catching the exception graceful?

# UNTESTED CODE

def load_pickle_iter(infile):
   while 1:
     try:
       yield pickle.load(infile)
     except EOFError:
       break

for obj in load_pickle_iter(open("mydata.pickle", "rb")):
   print obj


This is well in line with the normal Python idiom,
as compared to "look before you leap".

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Oct  8 15:40:04 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 15:40:04 -0400
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<1glbyrn.4jt08j144wg1dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ck6qek$t63$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <1glbyrn.4jt08j144wg1dN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Bryan Olson <fakeaddress at nowhere.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Guido did not impose the GIL lightly.  This is a hard problem.
>
>Sure.  I wonder what (e.g.) IronPython or Ruby do about it -- never
>studied the internals of either, yet.

Ruby doesn't have OS-level threading IIRC.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From agriff at tin.it  Wed Oct 27 15:50:29 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:50:29 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<j0dtn016bbfrttbr5i5deja4qia9ohucut@4ax.com>
	<s9zsm80fq9n.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <3tuvn05ndqa434m36ieub2rqm8q3f456t9@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:45:40 +0200, Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de>
wrote:

>No.  They have to be able to link a *modified* version of the library,
>not necessarily a newer or incompatible one.  The LGPL quite explicitly
>says that this relinking only has to be possible for sufficiently
>compatible modifications.

You're right. I've no excuses for basing my misinformed post
on just hearsay. Now that I took the time to actually read the
license that part is clear.

Thankyou for the correction.

Andrea


From nick at craig-wood.com  Thu Oct  7 11:29:57 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 15:29:57 GMT
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> wrote:
>  You need to read the next line before you can tell which is the last line. 
>  The easiest way is probably to use a generator:
> 
>  def lineswithlast(filename):
>      prev, line = None, None
>      for line in file(filename):
>          if prev is not None:
>              yield prev, False
>          prev = line
>      if line:
>          yield line, True
> 
>  	
>  for line, last in lineswithlast('somefile.txt'):
>      print last, line

I like that.  I generalised it into a general purpose iterator thing.

You'll note I use the spurious sentinel local variable to mark unused
values rather than None (which is likely to appear in a general
list).  I think this technique (which I invented a few minutes ago!)
is guaranteed correct (ie sentinel can never occur in iterator).

def iterlast(iterator):
    "Returns the original sequence with a flag to say whether the item is the last one or not"
    sentinel = []
    prev, next = sentinel, sentinel
    for next in iterator:
        if prev is not sentinel:
            yield prev, False
        prev = next
    if next is not sentinel:
        yield next, True

for line, last in iterlast(file('z')):
    print last, line

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From richie at entrian.com  Thu Oct  7 09:24:41 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:24:41 +0100
Subject: Simple Python web proxy stalls for some web sites
In-Reply-To: <41649d0e@post.usenet.com>
References: <41649d0e@post.usenet.com>
Message-ID: <pggam0p360eta7ior0i1pnu3u227gktrtn@4ax.com>


[Carl]
> I have written a simple web proxy using the Python standard library
> BaseHTTPRequestHandler.  [...]  some?web sites simply seem to stall
> indefinitely (e.g. www.google.com).

By default, urllib2 specifies "User-Agent: Python-urllib/x.y"  Some
sites, Google included, reject this because they don't like to be
web-scraped.

You need to tell urllib2 to ditch its built-in User-Agent header and
pass through the one from the browser.  I don't know how to do that off
the top of my head, but some Googling should soon find the answer.  8-)

I do know that there were some bugs in this that were fixed in Python
2.3, so make sure you're using at least that version.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From kirk-news at jobsluder.net  Tue Oct 19 17:23:13 2004
From: kirk-news at jobsluder.net (Kirk Job-Sluder)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:23:13 GMT
Subject: bz2 & cpu usage
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.19.16.23.49.133504@jerf.org>
References: <cl365b$hh8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<cl36lk$83l$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<cl3757$iqm$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<pan.2004.10.19.16.23.49.133504@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <5Bfdd.9261$5b1.3267@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>

Sorry for the late post, the original scrolled off the server.

 > I'd like to keep at least 50% of the cpu free while doing bz2 file
 > compression. Currently, bz2 compression takes between 80 & 100 percent
 > of the cpu and the Windows GUI becomes almost useless. How can I lower
 > the strain on the cpu and still do compression? I'm willing for the
 > compression process to take longer.
 >
 > Thanks,
 >
 > Brad
 >
 > def compress_file(filename):
 >     path = r"C:\repository_backup"
 >     print path
 >     for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):
 >         for f in files:
 >             if f == filename:
 >                 print "Compressing", f
 >                 x = file(os.path.join(root, f), 'rb')
 >                 os.chdir(path)
 >                 y = bz2.BZ2File(f + ".bz2", 'w')
 >                 while True:
 >                     data = x.read(1024000)
 >                     time.sleep(0.1)
 >                     if not data:
 >                         break
 >                     y.write(data)
 >                     time.sleep(0.1)
 >                 y.close()
 >                 x.close()
 >             else:
 >                 return

One of the issues you may be running into is memory.  Under windows, 
using up 90% of the CPU shouldn't affect GUI performance (much) but 
swapping does.  According to the bzip2 man page, the maximum block size 
is 900KB so you might be running into problems reading your file 1024KB 
at a time.  Use the system monitor control panel to check for excessive 
swapping.  Bzip2 uses 8x<blocksize> memory.  So with the default setting 
of a 900KB block size, you are looking at 7.2M + some bookeeping memory.

Another issue is that you might be better off downloading bzip2 for 
windows and letting the gnu bzip2  implementation handle file input and 
output.  Using a shell command here might be more efficient in spite of 
spawning a new process.

A third issue is that bzip2 achieves high compression efficiency at the 
expense of CPU time and memory.  It might be worth considering whether 
gzip might occupy the sweet spot compromise between minimal archive size 
and minimal cpu usage.

Fourth, how many of those files are uncompressible?  I've noticed that 
bzip2 tries really hard to eek out some form of savings from 
uncompressible files.  A filename filter for files that should not be 
compressed (png, jpg, gif, sx*) might be worth doing here.


From werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com  Mon Oct 25 06:56:16 2004
From: werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com (Werner Merkl)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:56:16 +0200
Subject: py2exe and UPPER CASE file system
Message-ID: <clim4g$3nv$3@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>

Hi,


my problem is, I try to use a py2exe compiled python script from a 
CD-ROM. This should work, BUT the tool I use (or have to use) generates 
only upper case file names on the CD-ROM.

For py2exe 0.4.1 and python 2.2 this worked fine... but the current 
releases do not.

Any ideas or help?


Thanks in advance
Werner Merkl


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct 15 11:50:58 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:50:58 +0100
Subject: Search-Filter for LDAP (MS Active Directory)
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B16@iron.ima.umn.edu>

| I asked here a few weeks ago the same question but the answer of Tim
| Golden didn't really help yet.
| 
| I'd like to know how to set up a query for all computer-accounts in a
| special part of Active Directory by using LDAP.

OK. I imagine that this is far too late to solve your particular
problem, and several others have already provided LDAP-based solutions
but... I've uploaded a module-wrapper round Microsoft's LDAP:// object
set to:

http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/downloads/active_directory.py

I'll try to put some info on that site to support it, but
it's fairly simple, fairly well-commented within, and I'll
add an example below to match your situation.

| Example:
| all computers with a name like "ABC*" at "..., ou=Production,
| DC=business,DC=company,DC=com"

<code>
import active_directory
ad = active_directory.AD ()
production = ad.child ("ou=production")

for computer in production.search (["objectClass=computer",
"displayName=ABC*"]):
  print computer
  print "Properties used:", [p for p in computer.properties if getattr
(computer, p)]
  print computer.operatingSystemVersion

</code>

HTH
TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 06:23:32 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 03:23:32 -0700
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4231.1096844832.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410040223.4aa4f24b@posting.google.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4231.1096844832.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> BTW, once I finish my deep imersion into new style classes, which
> includes metaclasses and descriptors, I intend to write a tutorial and
> post it somewhere. It's a fascinating topic, but the documentation
> seems to assume that you already know what is this stuff useful for
> :-) A tutorial would help to clarify stuff greatly.

Notice that there already valuable resources on this stuff.
Unfortunately, after several minutes of searching on www.python.org
I didn't find them (which may denote that something is wrong with me
or with python.org). Search for new style classes, 
Shalab <last name which spelling I cannot remember> and may be
even Dave Kuhlman <where the spelling is probably wrong>.

      Michele Simionato


From limodou at gmail.com  Sat Oct 16 02:14:09 2004
From: limodou at gmail.com (limodou)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:14:09 +0800
Subject: How to deal __getattr__
In-Reply-To: <505f13c04101522596d9ea6e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <505f13c04101522596d9ea6e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <505f13c04101523143f78d2a7@mail.gmail.com>

I resolved the problem via defining __eq__method, just like:

>>> class A:
	def __getattr__(self, name):
		print name
		return None
	def __eq__(self, obj):
		return id(self) == id(obj)

	
>>> a=A()
>>> b=A()
>>> a==b
False

I don't know whether it's the right solution, any ideas?

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:59:11 +0800, limodou <limodou at gmail.com> wrote:
> I found it puzzled me that:
> 
> class A:
>    def __getattr__(self, name):
>        return None
> a=A()
> b=A()
> a==b will raise Exception:
> 
> __eq__
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>    a==b
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
> 
> I want to compare the objects themself not the attributes of them. But
> it seems python invoke __getattr__ method, it's strange. How can I
> compare the object directly without calling __getattr__?
> 
> Thankx
> 
> --
> I like python!
> 


-- 
I like python!


From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  8 12:49:49 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 09:49:49 -0700
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4538.1097192656.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410080849.51fbdcfa@posting.google.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.4538.1097192656.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> You could create a Text widget and insert lines of text in it.
> 
> import Tkinter
> def add_rows(w, titles, rows):
>     for r in rows:
>         for t, v in zip(titles, r):
>             w.insert("end", "%s:\t%s\n" % (t, v))
>         w.insert("end", "\n")
> 
> app = Tkinter.Tk()
> t = Tkinter.Text(app)
> t.pack()
> info = [['Ali',18],
>         ['Zainab',16],
>         ['Khalid',18]]
> add_rows(t, ["Name", "Age"], info)
> app.mainloop()
> 
> If there are many lines, you can use a scrollbar widget to scroll the
> text widget.  You can use the tabs= argument of the Text widget to
> adjust the alignment of the second column.  If you want to make the
> items "interactive", you can use tags and tag_bind to react to things
> like button presses.  You can set the text widget to be "disabled" to
> keep the user from changing the contents.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> --

I will try out your code. Thank you for helping.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 30 10:59:47 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:59:47 -0400
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <cm08pl$9cd$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<HNedne3QcamF4h7cRVn-3g@speakeasy.net>
	<1099144064.931829.257240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<2uhl84F2ahviqU1@uni-berlin.de> <cm08pl$9cd$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Rpudnd8nENL5MR7cRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>

Michael Hoffman wrote:
> Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> 
>> C. Functions that could be made attributes of lists/sequences
>>
>> max, min, len, enumerate, sum
>>
>> But that would require to implement them for all sequence types or
>> implement a common basetype 'seq'.
> 
> And iterators?

And dicts.  And ....


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Tue Oct  5 06:39:38 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:39:38 GMT
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
Message-ID: <KRu8d.25558$H11.796459@twister1.libero.it>

Michael Sparks ha scritto:


>>I'd like to add messages and message passing, for example.
> 
> 
> Why do you feel you need to extend the language for this? Why not (for
> example) overload <<, >> and similar operators? __lshift__, __rshift__ etc.

ah, so the OP is asking about Higher Order Messages a-la F-Script? (or 
hyper ops a-la perl6)

I don't think this can be done in pure python. You can do half of it, say:
collection >> stuff # map the stuff over the collection
or
collection >> operator << othercollection

but you cant do

stuff operator << collection



From deets.nospaaam at web.de  Thu Oct 21 09:32:37 2004
From: deets.nospaaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:32:37 +0200
Subject: excluding search string in regular expressions
References: <pc7fn0l6i0nso8onn0kh6gvt6o3sug4sd0@4ax.com>
	<fc8fn010l31ae6fqoh0ssj0f40beekafug@4ax.com>
	<H3Odd.4622$F6.1272762@news.siol.net>
	<02dfn0dvebf10uleb8m9kia8nm8cjkhg8n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2tps4sF225s2rU1@uni-berlin.de>

> 
> A more common solution for detecting functions/Methods would be fine.

Maybe you should go for a real parser here - together with a
C-syntax-grammar. Trying to cram this stuff into regexps is bound for not
catching special cases. And its gereally difficult to have a regexp _not_
macht a certain word.

Another approach would be to look for closing comments and function
definitions in several rexes, and use python-logic:

if doxy_close_rex.match(line):
   line = lines.next()
   if fun_def_rex.match(line):
       ....


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From EP at zomething.com  Wed Oct 20 03:06:16 2004
From: EP at zomething.com (EP)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:06:16 -0800
Subject: Luther Blisset
In-Reply-To: <41747784$1@clarion.carno.net.au>
References: <9jb8n014advbvs5n0li6lo1a0d4cedbcsp@4ax.com>
	<7nXcd.719$si.122@lakeread04> <41747784$1@clarion.carno.net.au>
Message-ID: <20041019230616.39575413.EP@zomething.com>

>     The "situationist" email address was a always a giveaway.  Very 
> clever!


Ah, me thinks someone's been playing football without a proper helmet.  :-)

Does the inclusion of something like "(c) Luther Blissett, all rights reserved" in one's code do away with the need for GNU and GNU-like licensing?  Have we been listening to lawyers when we should have been hanging out with the neo-(something) crowd?  the later are bound to be more fun (he says having little experience with either)

Luther:  http://www.thefa.com/Features/EnglishDomestic/Postings/2003/07/54903.htm


EP (effects of sea water on under-ocean Ethernet may cause degradation of humor and social revolution, some checks required)



From emayo at home.com  Wed Oct 27 14:40:58 2004
From: emayo at home.com (Pater Maximus)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:40:58 -0400
Subject: Can not get urllib.urlopen to work
Message-ID: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>

I am trying to implement the recipe listed at
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/211886

However, I can not get to first base. When I try to run

import urllib
fo=urllib.urlopen("http://www.dictionary.com/")
page = fo.read()

I get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:/Program Files/Python/Lib/idlelib/testurl", line 2, in -toplevel-
    fo=urllib.urlopen("http://www.dictionary.com/")
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\urllib.py", line 76, in urlopen
    return opener.open(url)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\urllib.py", line 181, in open
    return getattr(self, name)(url)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\urllib.py", line 297, in open_http
    h.endheaders()
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 712, in endheaders
    self._send_output()
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 597, in _send_output
    self.send(msg)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 564, in send
    self.connect()
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 548, in connect
    raise socket.error, msg
IOError: [Errno socket error] (10061, 'Connection refused')




From aurora00 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 15:59:40 2004
From: aurora00 at gmail.com (aurora)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:59:40 -0700
Subject: reloading updated modules in long running server?
References: <mailman.5017.1097862215.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opsfxghqzv6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>

>   I would put a big fat (possibly figurative) button on the application  
> somewhere and press it when I wanted the source updated.
>
>   Jp

Yeah why not. Sound like a simple solution. Thanks.


From kendall at monkeyfist.com  Wed Oct  6 13:21:28 2004
From: kendall at monkeyfist.com (Kendall Clark)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 13:21:28 -0400
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041006172128.GB29668@monkeyfist.com>

On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 07:11:02PM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Ruby has this convention and it seems to work wonderfully well for them.
> I wish Python could grow it, too, but I don't think I stand any chance
> of convincing Guido -- perhaps somebody else can.

For my money this is *the* biggest syntactic wart in Python. I think ?
and ! at the ends of function/method names is an insanely good idea
that Python should steal. I'm not holding my breath, but it would be
really great to at least have a community conversation about this.

Best,
Kendall Clark
Managing Editor, XML.com


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Fri Oct  8 13:15:02 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:15:02 -0400
Subject: Desactivating Python keywords and built-in functions
In-Reply-To: <f06d8508.0410080645.17341a82@posting.google.com>
References: <f06d8508.0410080645.17341a82@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <i4adneXxn_uJVvvcRVn-sQ@giganews.com>

Andr? Roberge wrote:

> Is there a simple way to desactivate Python keywords and built-in
> keywords [e.g. eval()]

Try rexec:

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-rexec.html

not fully safe but I might be enough.

Istvan.


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 30 23:28:52 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:28:52 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41832f8b.1140475326@news.oz.net> <41834032.1144738587@news.oz.net>
	<418357db.1150795766@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41845aa2.1217042835@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:02:14 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[... previous versions ...]

Silly last best shot put the quotient in an unneeded box. Sorry for all the
self-followups. I think I'll call this my best version (so far ;-):

 >>> def number_in_base(x, N=10, digits='0123456789ABCDEF'):
 ...     return '-'[:x<0]+''.join([digits[r] for q in [abs(x)]
 ...             for q,r in iter(lambda:divmod(q, N), (0,0))][::-1]) or '0'
 ...
 >>> number_in_base( 126, 2)
 '1111110'
 >>> number_in_base(-126, 2)
 '-1111110'
 >>> number_in_base(-126, 8)
 '-176'
 >>> number_in_base(-126,16)
 '-7E'
 >>> number_in_base(   1,16)
 '1'
 >>> number_in_base(   1, 2)
 '1'
 >>> number_in_base(   0, 2)
 '0'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 26 18:04:41 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:04:41 -0400
Subject: CGIHTTPServer always return 200, no redirects (302) possible
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.26.13.54.03.156007@thomas-guettler.de>
References: <pan.2004.10.26.13.54.03.156007@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <UWzfd.18877$SW3.11758@fed1read01>

Thomas Guettler wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The CGIHTTPServer returns
> 
> self.send_response(200, "Script output follows")
> 
> before it starts the cgi process. This means
> you cannot set the status header to 302 for
> a redirect.
> 
> I don't see a easy and portable way to fix this.
> 
> CGIHTTPServer.py:
> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Lib/CGIHTTPServer.py?rev=1.36&view=auto
> 
> Maybe a little note in the docs would save some
> people 30-60 minutes of their sparetime.
> 
>  Thomas
> 
If you'd spent the time it took to post your message posting a doc patch 
instead then you'd have saved us boith some time ;-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Thu Oct  7 05:58:49 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:58:49 +0200
Subject: correct way to detect container type
In-Reply-To: <864d37090410070250210881d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<864d37090410070250210881d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41651359.9070900@cenix-bioscience.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

>On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:30:22 +0100, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>I seem often to allow list/tuple arguments to be a singleton. This leads to code
>>of the form
>>
>>if type(arg) not in (type(()),type([])): arg = [arg]
>>
>>or alternatively
>>
>>from type import ListType, TupleType
>>_seqTypes = ListType, TupleType
>>......
>>if type(arg) not in _seqTypes: ....
>>
>>is there a 'best' way to do this?
>>    
>>
>
>Depending upon the way you're using your sequence types, why don't you
>check for __getitem__? As far as I'm aware, it's all that is needed to
>support for loops. In some cases __len__ may also be needed. The
>advantage is that you will accept any user defined type that supports
>the sequence interface.
>
>
>  
>
Careful! If all you are doing is:

for x in arg:
do something with x

Then arg only needs to support __iter__ and need not be a sequence type 
nor support __getitem__.

Aaron



From tundra at tundraware.com  Sun Oct 17 21:09:20 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 17 Oct 2004 21:09:20 EDT
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <i0hb42-3mk1.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

Michael Chermside wrote:

> A few weeks ago, the suggestion was made on Python-Dev that it might be time
> to consider replacing the ConfigParser module and that we should hold a
> "shootout" (ie ask for implementations and see what we get).
> 
> Since then I've been playing around with this... not the parsing part (which
> so far I have completely ignored) but the programmer interface. There needs
> to be a well-thought-out data model for the information stored, and the user
> interface needs to be very easy to use, yet not so "magical" that it becomes
> difficult to understand.
> 
> I have put together what I think is probably my best proposal. It is based
> on a superset of ini config files and java .property files. There is a
> convenient access mechanism ("config.my_app.some_value") as well as more
> general approaches ("config.values['my_app.serviceByPort.80']"). I have
> tried to consider issues like unicode (I permit fairly lenient mixing of
> unicode and str), and unit testing ("... call config.clear_all() in the
> tearDown() method of any unittests that use the config module..."). I have
> even considered carefully what to leave OUT (converting to non-string data
> types, interpolating values, things like that).
> 
> I think that I am now at the point where I could really use some input from
> others. So I'd like to invite people to review my design and send me your
> suggestions. I'm not expecting this as a *useful* module yet (it doesn't
> yet parse files!), but it seemed like a good stage at which to ask for
> feedback. I'm attaching two files, config.py and configTest.py, and they
> are also available from these urls:
> 
>     http://www.mcherm.com/publish/2004-10-17/config.py
>     http://www.mcherm.com/publish/2004-10-17/configTest.py
> 
> Thanks in advance for reviewing this.
> 
> -- Michael Chermside
> 

I doubt it conforms to your thinking on the matter, but some time ago I
wrote and released such a creature of my own invention:

     https://www.tundraware.com/Software/tconfpy/



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Mon Oct 11 10:28:34 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:28:34 +0200
Subject: kinterbase and stored procedure
In-Reply-To: <2svii1F1qc0k9U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2svii1F1qc0k9U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <416A9892.1050106@geochemsource.com>


> cursor = kinterbasdb.connect(...)
> cursor.excute(SPSETUP)
>
> But it seems that anything has problems with "SET TERM !!" expression 
> . If I use the DB SQL console, everything seems to be OK (the proc is 
> setup) 

Yes, that is true. The "SET TERM" command is not really a command that 
is processed by the backend.
Please note that the terminator is used to separate commands. However, 
you will (normally) execute only one
command at a time with "cursor.execute". So you should create your 
procedure without the "SET TERM".
InterBase will surely know that this is only one command. You can try to 
run the "SET TERM" command
in a separate "cursor.execute", but probably that is not needed. I had 
the same problem with Oracle triggers
before - you must not place the ending "/" character when createing 
Oracle triggers from your own program.

Please let me know if it helps.
Best,

   Laci 2.0




From ville at spammers.com  Mon Oct 25 13:18:44 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 20:18:44 +0300
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <du7y8hupvgr.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Grant" == Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:

    Grant> That just doesn't sound right.

That sentence pretty much summarizes the issue of GPL'd libraries. The
most practical approach is to rather post a question about "is there a
non-GPL'd version of <foo> around?"

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 12 21:00:42 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:00:42 -0400
Subject: mxDateTime package question
In-Reply-To: <991e921f.0410121213.213f0807@posting.google.com>
References: <991e921f.0410121213.213f0807@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <jb%ad.2368$lp6.68@okepread01>

Prashant Pai wrote:
> I have a Julian (?) date string '2000238' (format YYYYDDD) which
> corresponds to 2000/08/25
> 
> How do I create a correct DateTime object with this?
> 
> thanks

You could try

 >>> jd = "2000238"
 >>> y = int(jd[:4])
 >>> d = int(jd[4:])-1
 >>> yd = mx.DateTime.DateTime(y)
 >>> dinc = mx.DateTime.DateTimeDeltaFromDays(d)
 >>> result = yd+dinc
 >>> result
<DateTime object for '2000-08-25 00:00:00.00' at a0d4620>
 >>>

but there may well be more efficient ways.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From steve_erickson at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 15 09:37:59 2004
From: steve_erickson at hotmail.com (Steve Erickson)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 06:37:59 -0700
Subject: Problem with logging module
References: <78406811.0410130851.5cf73a75@posting.google.com>
	<ckjpbd$o0b$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<78406811.0410140401.4d466185@posting.google.com>
	<cklqac$3il$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <78406811.0410150537.5173afd0@posting.google.com>

Thanks a bunch for your patience and explanations.  It would be nice
if there was a method of checking the logger or handler for an
instance of it:

logger = logging.getLogger(name)
if not logger.handler(dir + '/' + name + '.log'):
    logger.propagate = False
    handler = logging.FileHandler(dir + '/' + name + '.log')
    logger.addHandler(handler)

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message news:<cklqac$3il$02$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Steve Erickson wrote:
> 
> > Thanks.  Coming from C++, I thought that the local logger instance in
> > each test method would go away when I went out of the context of the
> > method.  Sounds like the logging class in Python maintains artifacts
> > that affect instantiations in other methods.  Or maybe I'm confused
> > about how Python handles local versus class variables.
> 
> Nothing to do with python - its the way logging is designed, and it makes
> sense: if at one place you attach the logger named foo.bar to a handler,
> and at another place obtain a reference to foo.bar to log some stuff, you
> don't want to reiterate the whole handler-attaching stuff.
> 
> So you simply abused the logging module - just set up the logger once, and
> then obtain a reference to it using logging.getLogger whenever you need it
> - that totally rids you of your logger class, that so far doesn't do much
> anyway. Like this:
> 
> ------
> logger = logging.getLogger(name)
> logger.propagate = False
> handler = logging.FileHandler(dir + '/' + name + '.log')
> logger.addHandler(handler)
> 
> class Test:
> 
>     def test_me(self):
>         logger = logging.getLogger(name)
>         logger.debug("test_me")
> 
> ------


From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct  4 19:56:04 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:56:04 -0400
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <864d370904100411551f0629c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41616B9B.1080009@fastmail.fm>
	<864d370904100411551f0629c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4161E314.9050700@fastmail.fm>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:26:19 -0400, Arich Chanachai
><macrocosm at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>  
>
>>How hard/easy is it to extend the Python syntax?  Perhaps there are
>>macro facilities for this?  I'd like to add messages and message
>>passing, for example.
>>    
>>
>
>Python doesn't support macros. This same question was raised before in
>slightly different ways, and the historical answer seems to be that
>macros are not in the plans, and that there are better ways to solve
>problems than with macros. In fact, Python is *very* flexible, and
>allows the clear expression of several interesting ideas and paradigms
>without the need for macros. Could you share more information about
>why do you think macros are the best solution for your problem?
>
>
>  
>
I could implement them myself by writing a module that would serve as a 
layer to permit usage of this sort of language construct.  The issue is 
that I want to be able to use this functionality transparently (without 
knowing anything about or making any references to this module).


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 21 06:49:41 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 06:49:41 -0400
Subject: python 2.1 and 2.2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5246.1098333343.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5246.1098333343.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl847c$5i8$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Maurice Ling wrote:
> I remembered reading somewhere that Guido had demonstrated a significant 
> speed increase from python 2.1 to python 2.2 (or something like that). 
> Anyone knows how is the test done? Is it using pystone.py?

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/whatsnew/node17.html#SECTION0001720000000000000000

See section on Optimization.


From bob at codeblitz.com  Tue Oct 12 18:50:05 2004
From: bob at codeblitz.com (Bob Follek)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:50:05 -0400
Subject: list comprehension for splitting strings into pairs
References: <mailman.4781.1097619107.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tonom0pgbmgs8cddmitfeogdamrap6n33g@4ax.com>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:11:45 -0600, Steven Bethard
<steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

>Here's what I'm doing:
>
>>>> lst = ['1', '1:2', '3', '-1:4']
>>>> splits = []
>>>> for s in lst:
>... 	pair = s.split(':')
>... 	if len(pair) != 2:
>... 		pair.append(None)
>... 	splits.append(pair)
>... 	
>>>> splits
>[['1', None], ['1', '2'], ['3', None], ['-1', '4']]
>
>Basically, I want to split each string into two items, substituting
>None when no second item is specified in the string.  (As you can see,
>in my strings, the items are delimited by ':').
>
>It seems like a simple enough operation that I should be able to write
>a list comprehension for it, but I can't figure out how...  Any
>suggestions?
>
>Steve

Here's a pretty nasty approach:

>>> lst = ['1', '1:2', '3', '-1:4']
>>> splits = [(e.split(':') + [None])[:2] for e in lst]
>>> splits
[['1', None], ['1', '2'], ['3', None], ['-1', '4']]
--

Bob Follek
bob at codeblitz.com


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Mon Oct 11 17:44:55 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:44:55 +0200
Subject: ANN: Snakelets 1.35 (simple-to-use web app server with dynamic
 pages)
In-Reply-To: <buCad.33195$Z14.12881@news.indigo.ie>
References: <416ae4b9$0$78749$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<buCad.33195$Z14.12881@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <416afed7$0$10528$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Alan Kennedy wrote:
> Irmen,
> 
> Thanks for your all your great work on Snakelets.

You're welcome, it's been a pleasure to do so :)


> Have you considered maybe porting Snakelets to WSGI? WSGI is a new 
> server/gateway standard for portability of python web frameworks, and is 
> specified in PEP 333.
> 
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0333.html

Errm, I was only very vaguely aware of something like the WSGI,
and apparently totally missed the surfacing of PEP 333.
Thanks for dropping the link, I will certainly study it.

Based upon your comments below, I'm almost certain that there
will be some form of WSGI in a future Snakelets version.

Disclaimer for the next few questions: I haven't yet read PEP-333.

> WSGI specifies a HTTP API which is implementable on most conceivable web 
> platforms. Code built on this API is fully portable to
[...]

Does it achieve this by providing a least common denominator featureset?
How does it deal with the way the server is structured (threading,
sessions, shared resources)?  I'm sorry- if this is in PEP-333, I'll
find out soon enough :)

> Porting to WSGI would bring the following benefits
> 
> 1. The ability to run Snakelets under any WSGI server/gateway, e.g. 
> mod_python, CGI, BaseHTTPServer, etc, etc. (No WSGI adapters seem to 
> exist for Twisted, Medusa or Zope though: the asynch API is still under 
> discussion on the web-sig).

Users of asynch-API servers usually smile broadly when confronted with
worried users of 'old-skool' multiprocessing or multithreading servers.
It is my understanding that the latter server type (which Snakelets is
also a part of) doesn't scale very well to many concurrent connections.
If that is true, it seems to me that WSGI should somehow also provide
for the asynch programming style, because the "big guys" will be using
that one? Or am I way off here?


> 2. The ability to factor out the need (and maintenance burden, security 
> exposure, etc) for a custom standalone server, i.e. instead use a 
> standard server, e.g. BaseHTTPWSGIServer, and get automatic threading or 
> forking support, etc.

I'm not sure how WSGI should help me achieve this. I thought that it
was an API for web application builders.... not for the implementors
of the application server?


> 3. Possibly run Snakelets on Java/Jython! The latter is only possible if 
> Snakelets is 2.1 compliant, i.e. does not use python 2.2 or 2.3 features.

Too bad, I'm using generators (amongst others) and those are unavailable
in Python 2.1.  I have no intentions of backporting to Python 2.1.


> I have high hopes for WSGI to help simplify the confusing landscape of 
> server platforms upon which python web frameworks can and cannot run. 

It certainly sounds promising.


Cheers!
--Irmen.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 15:20:30 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:20:30 +0200
Subject: backslash plague
References: <2tt4b2F24cffeU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1gm2tuh.sg3fl11rm2newN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Luis P. Mendes <luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt> wrote:
    ...
> I've already read many pages on this but I'm not able to separate the
> string 'R0\1.2646\1.2649\D' in four elements, using the \ as the separator.

x = r'R0\1.2646\1.2649\D'
elements = x.split('\\')

> and why must I write two '' after the \?  If I hadn't used r I would
> understand...

A raw literal can't end with an odd number of backslashes (_some_ way
has to be there to escape the quote char, after all).

> how should I do it?

I think the string's split method, as above, is the simplest, fastest
way.


Alex


From kraus at hagen-partner.de  Wed Oct 13 11:06:50 2004
From: kraus at hagen-partner.de (Wolfram Kraus)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:06:50 +0200
Subject: convert string to list
In-Reply-To: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
References: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
Message-ID: <ckjg90$pc4$1@ork-un.noris.net>

Jochen Hub wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am a real beginner in Python and I was wondering if there is a way to 
> convert a string (which contains a list) to a "real" list.
> 
> I need this since I would like to give a list as an argument to my 
> Python script from the bash:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> import sys
> argument1 = sys.argv[1]
> thelist = ???(argument1)
> 
> and then call the script from the bash like this
> 
> thescript.py ["A","B","C"]
> 
> Thanks you,
> Jochen
If you are sure that the list always looks that way:

 >>> l = '["A","B","C"] '
 >>> l[1:-2].replace('"','').split(',')
['A', 'B', 'C']


HTH,
Wolfram


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 25 11:23:09 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:23:09 +0200
Subject: Pythonic function composition
References: <10nq3c4j3lst8e2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <clj5nq$jl$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Alan G Isaac wrote:

> Given a list of functions, it seems there must be a
> Pythonic approach to composition.  Something like
> 
> def compose(fns): return lambda x: reduce(lambda f,g: f(g),fns)(x)
> 
> This will not work because the argument 'x' is not "inside".
> What is the proper formulation?

You need to pass a function that makes a function (a "factory") to reduce():

>>> fns = [lambda x: x+2, lambda x: x*2, lambda x: x*x]
>>> def compose(f, g):
...     def fog(x):
...             return f(g(x))
...     return fog
...
>>> g1 = reduce(compose, fns)
>>> g1(2)
10

The same with lambdas:

>>> g2 = reduce(lambda f, g: lambda x: f(g(x)), fns)
>>> g2(2)
10

Peter



From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  4 20:45:23 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 17:45:23 -0700
Subject: How do you write this in python
References: <8f17f4bc.0410022000.e331cbe@posting.google.com>
	<41603d90_1@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410041645.630ee821@posting.google.com>

ok that looks close but can someone explain it to me section by section please?


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct 26 02:33:30 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:33:30 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5484.1098768901.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>	<slrncnrn2n.afp.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<mailman.5484.1098768901.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_cmfd.2728$kM.39@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Cliff Wells wrote:
> Then Python clearly needs a special mode so that when a person's age is
> entered large numbers are allowed, but when counting animals it throws
> an exception if the number is greater than two.

Unless of course the count is of a clean animal, in which case
the exception limit is greater than seven.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com



From somewhere at on_earth.in_space  Wed Oct 20 23:53:28 2004
From: somewhere at on_earth.in_space (anonymous)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:53:28 -0700
Subject: converting idl files to C++ question
Message-ID: <1098330811.177193@news-1.nethere.net>

Has anyone written a Python module to parse a folder for idl files, then convert
to C++ source or headers?

Can the module parse idl files referenced inside the idl file too?



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 07:35:02 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:35:02 -0300
Subject: Free hosting for Python open-source projects
In-Reply-To: <m2y8i2bg54.fsf@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>
References: <864d370904101914067b7a1728@mail.gmail.com>
	<m2y8i2bg54.fsf@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <864d37090410200435765736fb@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:35:19 -0500, John Hunter
<jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> >>>>> "Carlos" == Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>     Carlos> I'm sure this question has been posted before, but the
>     Carlos> answer will probably be out of date, so here it goes.
> 
> How about an October 11th posting on the same topic with 4 reponses
> 
> Google is your friend
> 
>  1) http://groups.google.com
> 
>  2) hosting group:*python* -> "Google Search"
> 
>  3) Sort by date
> 
> The 5th or so link, "Where to host an open source project?
> Sourceforge? " discusses hosting, with subversion information, etc....

Thanks for the reply, and sorry to waste bandwidth. BTW, your very own
post is now #3 on my query. Fast to update the index, isn't it?

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3A*python*+host+open+source+project&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From richie at entrian.com  Thu Oct  7 10:07:50 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:07:50 +0100
Subject: ctypes, error when calling function
In-Reply-To: <4165275e$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <4165275e$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <majam09f0pf42vs9crjf6o23tmvco2sqqv@4ax.com>


[Max]
> caps = MIDIOUTCAPS()
> [...]
> print winmm.midiOutGetDevCapsA(deviceID, caps, sizeof(caps))
> [...]
> ValueError: Procedure probably called with too many arguments (60 bytes 
> in excess)

You need to pass byref(caps) rather than caps.  The API expects a
pointer to the structure, not the structure itself.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 16:52:00 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 20:52:00 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<vKKdnUxHIOPNzODcRVn-2Q@powergate.ca>
	<417d5862$0$45532$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<m37jpevade.fsf@g2ctech.com>
Message-ID: <417d6770$0$513$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-25, Jorge Godoy <godoy at ieee.org> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
>
>> On 2004-10-25, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Evil, nasty customers, we hates them!  They asks us questions
>>> and pays us money for our precioussssss time.
>>
>> Except they don't.  (Pay that is.)
>
> And I thought that just us down here didn't get paid for work and had to
> go after the customer to receive...

It's not really that.  The situation is more like:

 Customer orders A.
 Customer pays for A.
 Customer needs support for A.
 Customer gets support for A.

No problem, so far. 

 You give customer some GPL software B along with written
 statement that free support is not provided for B.
 
 Customer want's help with B.

Sales is _not_ going to let you tell Customer that you don't
provide support for B. 

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Is there something
                                  at               I should be DOING with a
                               visi.com            GLAZED DONUT??


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 21 15:20:51 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:20:51 -0700
Subject: Actual memory used by an object --- How to Determine?
In-Reply-To: <cl8ui0$8su$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <mailman.5273.1098381793.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl8ui0$8su$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <20041021122003.0AC5.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > zooko at zooko.com wrote:
> > 
> >>Here some some functions I've used to analyze memory usage in the past.
> >>
> >>http://mnetproject.org/repos/pyutil/pyutil/memutil.py
> > 
> > The site is down.
> 
> Worked from here, both before and after your post.  Try again?

It seems to be up from here now.  Maybe my University's DNS is being
ornery today.

 - Josiah



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Oct 21 19:05:21 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:05:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python + Java knowledge
References: <mailman.5169.1098194201.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4175ed72$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <tjfgn016is8t1gmigr81jd5dpuq5q4f4nn@4ax.com>

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:45:42 GMT, Maurice LING
<mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:
> I am amazed about people like Eric Raymond that can pick up and use a 
> dozen language, how did they do it? 

Not that amazing, most imprerative programming languages(which is
most programming languages!) are very similar. Once you know how
to do variable declarations, IO, loops, branches and functions
you can start writing code. After that the big lhurdle is
learning the library and thats down to practice mainly.

> It is equally amazing that 
> programming jobs these days require half a dozen programming languages 
> known. 

Again not really. Most reasonable sized projects will use
multiple languages. Certainly the minimum number of languages on
a single project I've worked on was 5 (C, awk, c-shell, SQL, DOS)
and I've been on several with over a dozen. The wackiest was  16
languages - but that was frankly excessive and an indication of
poorly coordinated design more than necessity.

> I came with a background in Pascal and bits of C, and some xBase 
> languages, then picked up Java and Python. 

Are you sure you don't know some SQL and DOS Batch language, or
Unix shell dialects? And if you know Java and C then C++ is but a
step away... Add those to your 5 and suddenly you know 9 and a
dozen languages doesn't seem so far away does it? :-)

> As mentioned in my post on 'reverse jython', I am envisioning the day 
> where mixed language programming is a reality.

It already is and has been.

Unix has always had easy intregration of C and Fortran. Topspeed
used to sell PC compilers where C, C++, Pascal, & Modula 2 all
shared the same object code format so you could mix n match
modules easily. UCSD Pascal also apparently had a bytecode level
compatibility with a couple of other languages but I never used
that. And now .NET is playing the same game under Windows...

There is nothing new under the sun.

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sun Oct 10 10:20:09 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:20:09 -0400
Subject: Init a table of functions
In-Reply-To: <ckarh3$lat$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>	<cka7q6$4u7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>	<4168A727.6050606@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4651.1097377198.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckarh3$lat$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <41694519.3060004@cloudthunder.com>

Michael Hoffman wrote:

> Richard Blackwood wrote:
>
>> Now that I think of it some more, why did you add that object arg?  
>> That's not necessary.
>
>
> It gets you a new-style class instead of an old-style class, and it is 
> a good habit to have.
>
> http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html

Why a necessary good habit?


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Wed Oct 27 08:56:56 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:56:56 -0400
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <2u9hklF24n4b1U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<2u9hklF24n4b1U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <T82dnedQ8YiFBuLcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>

Joachim Bowman wrote:

> These two don't go together.  Read "6. No Discrimination Against Fields 
> of Endeavor" in "The Open Source Definition"[0].

> [0] http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php

Yay, another thread on software licensing.

By the way Fuzzy, just release your software with your own
licensing scheme. If you don't like any of the available OSI
licenses then don't use them, as simple as that.

On one hand "OSI approved"  means very little on the other
people do not completely understand these licenses anyway,
the long, recurrent GPL related threads demonstrate that.

Istvan.


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sun Oct 17 20:02:16 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:02:16 -0400
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <4172d7c8.69432128@news.oz.net>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>	<10mt60mhr42rl09@corp.supernews.com>	<x7sm8hugjz.fsf@guru.mired.org>	<10mu6uje93pk152@corp.supernews.com>	<416f29c3.285069358@news.oz.net>
	<4172d7c8.69432128@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41730808.1020507@cloudthunder.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041017/b7d61654/attachment.html>

From rattan at cps.cmich.edu  Mon Oct 25 17:53:55 2004
From: rattan at cps.cmich.edu (Ishwar Rattan)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 14:53:55 -0700
Subject: Global variables..
Message-ID: <938a4680.0410251353.64578a27@posting.google.com>

Say I have two pythom modules in separate files:
main.py -> contains main() modules and uses a global variable (say a)
incr.py -> contains incre() that changes the value of global variable a
(called in main())

Is there a way to reflect the change in main()?
I tried it by placing variable a in a file of its own a.py
which imported in both main() and incr():
---main.py--
from a import *
from incr import *

def main():
    global a
    print a
    incr()
    print a
---incr.py--
from a import *

def incr():
    global a
    a = a + 100
    print 'incr: ', a
---a.py--
a = 123
---

Second print in main() displayes 123 -> as if a was not updated by incr()

Any ideas to make it work?
-ishwar


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Fri Oct  8 15:27:03 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 15:27:03 -0400
Subject: Desactivating Python keywords and built-in functions
In-Reply-To: <f06d8508.0410080645.17341a82@posting.google.com>
References: <f06d8508.0410080645.17341a82@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4166EA07.3090706@kzoo.edu>

Andr? Roberge wrote:

>In short:
>Is there a simple way to desactivate Python keywords and built-in
>keywords [e.g. eval()]
>
>Longer description:
>I want to use a subset of Python as an embedded language and don't
>want the users to have access to the rest of the language.   One
>approach I thought of using would be something along the following
>lines:
>
>read in the script for the user;
>scan for "forbidden" keywords or expression;
>if found, give an error message and stop;
>otherwise, let Python interpret the code.
>
>Before I jump and start coding, I thought I would ask people that know
>more about these things than me
>(which means probably 97.2% of the readership of comp.lang.python  ;-)
>
>Andr?
>  
>
This doesn't exactly qualify as simple, but depending on how modular the 
source is, it might be possible to simply comment them out and recompile.

There ought to be some way of doing this, I'd love to see a Python 
interface to Robocode :D




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct 25 17:11:20 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:11:20 -0700
Subject: Unqualified global vars, how?
In-Reply-To: <cljm88$ter$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cljm88$ter$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20041025131103.0B1D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Christopher J. Bottaro" <cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu> wrote:
> 
> >From the python programming FAQ, I learned you can do this:

[snip example]

> But python complains that gv isn't defined yet.  Is what I want to do
> possible?  I just want one module (file) with a bunch of globals vars and
> to able to access those global vars without qualify them the module name.
> 
> Thanks for the help.

Quick answer:
yes it is possible.

Long answer:

C:\Temp>cat > Globals.py
class GV:
  val = 0
    def __iadd__(self, arg):
        self.val += arg
        return self
    def __repr__(self):
        return repr(self.val)

gv = GV()

C:\Temp>cat > A.py
from Globals import gv

class A:
    def __init__(self):
        global gv
        print gv
        gv += 1

C:\Temp>cat > B.py
from Globals import gv

class B:
    def __init__(self):
        global gv
        print gv
        gv += 1

C:\Temp>cat > main.py
import A
import B
a = A.A()
b = B.B()

C:\Temp>main.py
1
2

C:\Temp>



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Thu Oct 21 21:43:32 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:43:32 -0700
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <10ngn6n6tgd5k28@corp.supernews.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<10ngn6n6tgd5k28@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1098409412.6627.89.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 18:07 -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> bearophile wrote:
> 
> >I think some things are better in Delphi/Pascal 
> >
> 
> They may well be better _in_ Delphi/Pascal.  That doesn't mean that 
> adding them into Python will make Python a better language.  (I love 
> garlic.  I love chocolate.  I do not want to eat chocolate-covered 
> garlic cloves, nor garlic-flavored chocolate bars.)

Well, that's a matter of personal taste.  Garlic is good on
*everything*.

> >2) Adding "case var of:" can be useful.

> Not sure exactly what this is, but if you're referring to a case/switch 
> construct: using a dict of functions is (IMO) a better and cleaner way 
> of implementing the same idea.

For many things this is true (and I use function lookup tables
frequently).  However it doesn't as conveniently cover all use cases
that switch/case does (as it requires a function definition for each
item).  While it's also true that if/elif/else can be used instead for
these other cases, I personally find switch/case far cleaner looking
(when there are more than five or six conditions to test).

Also, I'd be reluctant to claim that the dictionary lookup is cleaner
(it looks more cluttered to my eye), but rather, more flexible (items
can be dynamically added to the list).

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From adijkstra at baanders NOSPAM consultancy.nl  Thu Oct  7 03:46:47 2004
From: adijkstra at baanders NOSPAM consultancy.nl (duikboot)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:46:47 +0200
Subject: End of file
In-Reply-To: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4164f407$0$5963$d4d0a361@news.speedlinq.nl>

Kat wrote:
> Hi ,
> How do you identify the last line of a file? I am in a "for" loop and
> need to know which is the last line of the file while it is being read
> in this loop.
> 
> Thanks
> Kat

f = open("test.txt").readlines()
lines = len(f)
print lines
counter = 1
for line in f:
     if counter == lines:
         print "last line: %s" % line
     counter += 1

-- 
http://www.baandersconsultancy.nl | http://www.nosonis.com


From emayo at home.com  Thu Oct 21 13:02:55 2004
From: emayo at home.com (Pater Maximus)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:02:55 -0400
Subject: How can I do French and English Spell Checking using MS Word
	from Python
References: <mailman.5211.1098260653.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5O2dnbI66-z9c-rcRVn-gw@comcast.com>

I am a newbie to Python and do not understand COM so forgive the irrelevant
details encluded below:

Well I thought I had the problem solved, but it stopped working for both
Dispatch and EnsureDispatch. The code is:

import win32com.client
import msword9
#msword = win32com.client.Dispatch("Word.Application")
#msword.Selection.LanguageID=1033
msword = win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch ("Word.Application")
msword.Selection.LanguageID = 1033

Here is what happened.
* I added German language spell checking to Word and started getting
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'LanguageID'

* Since my source was unchanged, I figured I had better rebuild some stuff.
Ran makepy as follows

C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office>"c:\program
files\python\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\makepy.pyc" msword9.olb >
"c:\program files\python\msword9.py"

Generating to
C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\site-packages\win32com\gen_py\00020905-0000
-0000-C000-000000000046x0x8x1.py
that is 1445KB
It also produced
the .pyc version of the above with 1542KB
c:\program files\python\msword9.py with 0 bytes
c:\program files\python\msword9.pyc with 218 bytes

00020905-0000-0000-C000-000000000046x0x8x1.py has "Selection" defined and
"LanguageID" is a property but they are not being found. However, the
following command seems to find the library

>>> win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch("Word.Application")
<win32com.gen_py.Microsoft Word 9.0 Object Library._Application instance at
0x9887256>

What am I doing wrong???

Thanks...






From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Oct  1 13:21:54 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 19:21:54 +0200
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <415d9229$0$18966$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> 1. ``os.system`` (and co): Shouldn't ``os.system``'s signature really be
>    ``os.system(cmd, arg1, arg2,...)`` rather than ``os.system(some_string)``?

No. This is a direct exposition of the system(3) function of the C
library, and has precisely the same interface like this function.
Use os.spawnv for what you want.

> 2. pydoc's handling of overriden methods without docstrings: I really think it
>    should show the documentation of the method in the baseclass; the current
>    behavior really sucks when working with things like backends.

Feel free to contribute a patch.

> I currently use this to run e.g. latex, but it doesn't seem to work absolutely
> reliably and is unix only. I'm pretty sure there must be a better way.

I don't think there is.

Regards,
Martin


From Doran_Dermot at emc.com  Mon Oct 25 07:37:21 2004
From: Doran_Dermot at emc.com (Doran_Dermot at emc.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:37:21 +0100
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-functi
	on o  verloading.
Message-ID: <97B6410BE753D411894E00D0B77E6F7F018DCCFD@neam2mx1.isus.emc.com>

Hi Michael,

First of all thanks for letting some light penetrate the rock I've been
hiding under :-) I'd completely ignored or forgotten about Properties.  I'll
study them and see if I like them.

It's interesting to note that you prefer code like: theProblem.title = "The
Title"

However, I wonder if people coming from the Java/C++ world prefer:
theProblem.title( "The Title" )

Obviously the first version is less typing! However, the second version
might feel more natural to Java/C++ programmers.  Just an observation!

Cheers and thanks again!!

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+doran_dermot=emc.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+doran_dermot=emc.com at python.org]On Behalf Of
Michael Hoffman
Sent: 25 October 2004 12:10
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Implementing class attribute access methods via
pseudo-function o verloading.


Doran_Dermot at emc.com wrote:
> I've seen lots of code in which the attributes of a class are accessed and
> modified using two separate methods.  For example:

I think this is a great illustration of what properties can be used for:

http://www.python.org/2.2.2/descrintro.html#property

Then you can reduce your class to:

class Problems:
     def __init__(self, refNum):
         self._refNum = refNum

This is a LOT less code.

And use theProblem.title, theProblem.problem without any apparent 
function calls. As far as those fancy accessor methods go, YAGNI. If you 
do need them later, you can always add them:

     def _get_title(self):
         return self._title

     def _set_title(self, title):
         assert isinstance(title, basestring)
         self._title = title

     title = property(_get_title, _set_title)

I would much rather use theProblem.title = "the title" rather than 
theProblem.title("the title").
-- 
Michael Hoffman
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Thu Oct  7 07:34:32 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:34:32 -0400
Subject: properties and inheritance
Message-ID: <ck39k8$lf5$1@sea.gmane.org>

It seems that properties, as implemented in 2.3, don't behave as I'd expect
with respect to inheritance:

class A (object):
    def f(self):
        print "A"

    doF = property (fget=f)

class B(A):
    def f(self):
        print "B"


b = B()
b.doF : prints "A"

Is there a rationale for this?  I would have thought that if properties are
a shorthand for calling functions, and functions are polymorphic, then why
are properties not?  Doesn't that make properties behaviour inconsistent
with other attributes?



From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Oct  6 19:08:13 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:08:13 -0400
Subject: difficult zipefile Question
References: <d588131f.0410061437.4ecda4bf@posting.google.com>
	<ck1tfn$q64$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <TvmdnZh-8bN55_ncRVn-ow@rogers.com>

I'm going to take a break and have dinner.  My words are what's on the menu.

Dan

"Michael Hoffman" <m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote in 
message news:ck1tfn$q64$1 at gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...
> matthiasjanes wrote:
>> def zipit(path, ziper):
>>
>>   for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):
>>
>>     for anyFile in files:
>>
>>       fullname = os.path.join(root, anyFile)
>
> Where is the "ziper" variable used? I don't see how this code does 
> anything except create an empty zipfile.
>
> $ python samplecode.py
>
> $ unzip test.zip
> Archive:  test.zip
> warning [test.zip]:  zipfile is empty
>
> If you Google for <zipfile empty> you will find a python-list thread with 
> this solution in it:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-June/170526.html
>
> Alternatively you could submit a patch or a bug.
>
> HTH,
> -- 
> Michael Hoffman 




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 04:58:12 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:58:12 +0200
Subject: Python capability do like plugins ?
References: <cl02mu$qfk$1@netnews.hinet.net>
	<1glurfj.zi6798qu4p2fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cl2adu$apg$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <1glwgve.20tqi2sdvlc0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Leon <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> wrote:

> Thanks.....
> I use a simple method...
> 
> sys.commands module --> get file list
> re module --> filter file name and path
> imp module --> load module
> getattr() --> get varabiles
> 
> because none dll for unix, I don't know how to use *.pyd
> and how to make *.pyd from *.py

Not sure what you mean by "because none dll for unix".  A *.pyd on
Windows is a DLL (meant for Python extension); you cannot make it from a
*.py, you make it from a *.c or the like.  Equivalent on different Unix
variants are *.so, *.dynlib, and others yet.


Alex


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct  6 14:44:01 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:44:01 -0700
Subject: Embedding python with debugging features
In-Reply-To: <cjjurh$84t$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
References: <cjjurh$84t$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <10m8f48jrj8lc42@corp.supernews.com>

Peter wrote:

>I'm considering to embed python in an application written in c++ and use it
>as a scripting language.
>Is it possible to provide debugging features?
>  
>

Is your intent that your host (C++) application be able to be controlled 
by (internally run) Python scripts,  and that you want said host 
application to support debugging of the Python scripts?

In that case, though I don't know any details, I would say "Yes," this 
is possible to do.  Given that PythonWin (a mixed C++/Python app) 
supports a fairly decent debugger, I can't imagine any technical reason 
why your app couldn't do much the same thing.  Indeed, you might do well 
to study PythonWin's debugging code to get some ideas about implementing 
your own.  (IIRC, PythonWin should be available under the standard 
Python license, which I believe would allow you to legally borrow from 
its code... though you might want to verify this before you go digging.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From JSmuts at clover.co.za  Tue Oct  5 03:25:11 2004
From: JSmuts at clover.co.za (Jaco Smuts)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:25:11 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features (way OT)
In-Reply-To: <41622c67$0$59863$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <OF18A1B4C2.E51E1ACC-ON42256F24.00289409-42256F24.0028C244@clover.co.za>

Thanks guys, 

I must admit I  found the c# grammer school more entertaining, but this 
one was fun too.

jaco

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From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sat Oct 23 05:37:58 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 02:37:58 -0700
Subject: Some more notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>

Istvan Albert:

>No you can't. Your suggestions are  driven by nothing else
>but your desire to make  Python resemble Pascal since
>that is the language that you are accustomed to.

You are right, I'm just a newbie in Python, and there are other
languages than I know a bit better, like Delphi.
Like natural languages, computer languages have a personal "soul"
(grammar core, etc), but they also keep copying other languages, to
improve, etc.
-----------

Cliff Wells:

>Actually, since the assignment operator is used far more often than
the
>equality operator, making it require three keystroke rather than just
>one is a bad idea.

Right, still, from a mathematical/formal point of view, Pascal syntax
is better here :-]


>Use string interpolation.

Okay, I'll learn to use it more often.


>>2) Adding "case var of:" can be useful.
>Not familiar with this construct.  If you mean "switch/case" as in C
(or
>some variation of same), then I absolutely agree.

Yes, it's the Delphi/Pascal version of it.


>Occasionally useful.  Not enough to put it high on my list of things
I'd
>like to see in Python, but I can see its utility for making
*slightly*
>more logical code (versus the "while True: if x: break" idiom).

I agree, it's not essential, but it can be useful :-)


>Why not just use "/"?

Okay, I'll use os.path.normcase to convert them.


>but there are plenty of things to confuse newbies,

Reducing non-obvious, magic or not-standard behaviours is quite
necessary inside a language, it helps non-newbies too, making the
language more conceptually transparent. Sometimes such non-standard
behaviours can be useful to improve language speed or other things,
but they have to reduced to the minimum possible. Python often prefers
transparency, even when there are many (worse and more opaque, but
maybe faster) ways to do things. This is positive for a hi-level
language. So making a hi-level language like Python more transparent
can be a way to improve it :-)
Mathematica is more transparent than Python (its hashes can process
everything, it has just a mutable list type and not tuples, assignment
copies the object, and it's more functional so there are much less
problems with globals and side effects, etc. but it can still be used
with imperaive programming) and often it's also faster, but it's far
from free (and its can be worse to do "real" programming, etc) :-]
Note: Mathematica can be used with a quite powerful "pattern matching
programming", I don't know if such thing (or a subset of it) can be
useful to add to Python.


>there is a logical explanation that suffices in
>place of breaking tons of Python code.

There are logical explanations for everything (because everything must
be executed by the processor), but for humans some things are more
logical than others :-)
Python 3.0 already breaks lots of things, even division operators, so
that's the best occasion to improve/change/fix things.
-----------

Jeff Shannon:

>using a dict of functions is (IMO) a better and cleaner
>way of implementing the same idea.

I don't know... The Case syntax can be something like:

Case <name>:
    1: DoSomething1
    range(2,23): DoSomething2
    else: DoSomething3

(Etc. There are many other possibilities, like the Switch, etc).


>it's not hard to achieve the same thing with 
>'while 1: if cond: break' .  Python's designer made a deliberate 
>decision to minimize number of different types of loop structures to 
>use, since they tend to be very easy to convert between and fewer
types
>means less to learn.  So we have two -- one that loops based on the 
>status of a condition, and one that iterates over each object in a 
>sequence.  Minor variations on these themes are (according to Python 
>philosophy) better done by explicitly stating the rules, rather than
by
>creating new syntax for each variation.

Okay... I'll use the 'while 1: if cond: break'


>Except that having mutable types be shared this way can be a useful
feature.<

It looks more dangerous than useful. And assignments of non-mutable
types can still be accepted.


>Having a += x mean in-place modification 
>while a = a + x creates a new object allows both options to be
>easily accessible without function-call syntax.

Okay, the manual I've read wasn't clear enough about this :-)


>Having these
>as functions instead of methods is much simpler for Python's dynamic 
>type system.  For example,
>new sequence types don't need to define min() 
>and max() methods -- the existing builtins just work.  It also means 
>that implementation details of the function can be improved without 
>requiring a rewrite of every class that has ever defined a len()
method,

Okay. Thank you for the info. I still prefer Python to Ruby (a more
pure OO language, I think).


>Remember, there's a lot more to good language design than just "Ooh, 
>this piece might be useful!"  You also have to consider how all the 
>pieces fit together,

I agree, sometimes adding things is positive, and sometimes it's not
good.
Things have to be discussed by people expert on the language (and I'm
a newbie), but I am here to learn too :-)
("pattern matching programming" can be one of such things.)
-----------

Cliff Wells:

>While it's also true that if/elif/else can be used instead for
>these other cases, I personally find switch/case far cleaner looking
>(when there are more than five or six conditions to test).
>[...]
>Also, I'd be reluctant to claim that the dictionary lookup is cleaner
>(it looks more cluttered to my eye), but rather, more flexible (items
>can be dynamically added to the list).

I agree.
-----------

David M. Cooke:

>Also, adding a , to the end of the print statement will suppress the
>newline (although, not the space between the two calls).

Right, I've forgot it :-)


>"can be" is the operative phrase here. It's not necessary.<

Well, OOP and lots of other things (inside Python too) aren't
necessary. I was discussing mostly about things that can be useful.


>Chained if/elif/elif works fine for small cases; for larger,
>you should probably use a dict, or rewrite to use a class.

Uhm... I'll try with the dictionary.


>Really, while loops and repeat until loops are special cases of the
>much more useful loop-and-a-half:
>while True:
>      ... some stuff ...
>      if condition_true:
>         break
>      ... more stuff ...

I'll use it, but I think it's really ugly. It looks like the old
spaghetti code with GOTOs :-]

Thank you for the answers and explanations,
a handshake to Cliff and bear hugs to everybody else,
bearophile
(remove HUGS if you want to mail me directly)


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 19 16:44:01 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:44:01 -0400
Subject: Python Newbie
In-Reply-To: <cl2mdn$a6n$1@news.swman.net.uk>
References: <cl2mdn$a6n$1@news.swman.net.uk>
Message-ID: <cl3u9n$2r0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

abhay wrote:
> I am confused between learning Python or learning Perl. Please any view,
> opinions and suggestions are welcomed.

While I trust you are aware of the likely answer you'll get,
asking in a Python newsgroup whether one should learn Python,
it would be most helpful if you offered up at least one tiny,
small snippet of information about what you want to *accomplish*
with your chosen language...

If, for example, you need to use Perl in a school environment,
I wouldn't hesitate to suggest that you... (guess)... learn Perl!

-Peter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 15:22:54 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:22:54 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Qd6dnUTV2ZBkBefcRVn-pg@giganews.com>
	<1gm4rq5.1c25kfc12o6jivN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417cb790$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<slrncnq86k.os.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
Message-ID: <1gm8d6x.hvrljyulw27dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone <dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:
> > Zope Page Templates has a far better approach to this imho. Where you
> > define reusable markup in a macro.
> >
> > The box could then be defined with title and content slots like::
> >
> >      <div metal:define-macro="box">
> >          <h5><metal:block define-slot="title">The title</metal:block></h5>
> >          <metal:block define-slot="content"/>This is example 
> > content</metal:block>
> >      </div>

Hmmm, isn't this HTML malformed?  the second metal:block seems to be
self-terminated and then terminated again by a </metal:block>.  I'm
going to assume a typo (apologies if it's a ZPT feature instead).

> > This approach makes it relatively easy to reuse markup as well as logic.
> > It is possible use arbitrarily complex markups as "parameters" to the
> > slots in the template. Wich makes it very nice for larger systems.
> 
> Which with Nevow is perfectly natural since you can do:
> 
> <div nevow:render="content">
>     <nevow:slot name="content" />
> </div>
> 
> and then in the code:
> 
> def render_content(self, ctx, data):
>     ctx.tag.fillSlots('content', My_Fragment())
>     return ctx.tag

OK, but the problem is, who supplies My_Fragment, and how is said
fragment going to be parameterized.

> Just like I've done in weever (on berlios) where there is a main file that
> defines the base class for all the pages and requires a content fragment as
> argument with which it will fill the empty slot to render the whole page.
> 
> Then I subclass the main page class to give the behaviour I need, and then I
> pass the content 'page' to have it rendered in the output.

Still, this doesn't let the author of the markup (only), who by
definition is not going to touch the code, define his/her own macros.
Nevertheless, I think you _could_, in nevow, define the renderers needed
to let the markup-only person code, once:

<div n:render="define_macro box">
    <h5> <n:slot name="title"/> </h5>
    <n:slot name="content"/>
</div>

which stashes away the contents and renders nothing, and then, as many
time as desired, stuff such as:

<n:invisible n:render="expand_macro box">
    <n:invisible n:pattern="title">The title of this box</n:invisible>
    <n:invisible n:pattern="content">
       The title of this box, an <strong>arbitrary</strong> piece of
       text and/or various markup.
    </n:invisible>
</n:invisible>

which expands the previously-stashed-away contents, with slot-filling.

Still, render_define_macro and render_expand_macro do not come
predefined with nevow (at least so far).  It probably wouldn't be too
difficult to code them, of course, but _designing_ them just right is
both harder and more important -- I'm anything but sure that the
architecture implied in this example-use sketch is best (the ZPT example
leaves me far from sure it's really all that well designed, either;-).

This, I believe, is part of nevow not being fully mature yet; at release
0.3, of course, full maturity should not yet be expected, either.  ZPT
is older and wiser.  Nevertheless, the fundamental architecture of nevow
appears to be sound and very promising (for the templating part, at
least; I'll reserve my opinion about the other parts!), and if the worst
that could be said of it is that it may still lack some convenience
predefined general-purpose renderers such as define_macro and
expand_macro, well, that sure won't be very hard to remedy (getting such
convenience add-ons designed right is the interesting challenge; the
coding, with nevow's power at hand, is the easy part).


Alex


From anhtt at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 10 04:41:06 2004
From: anhtt at hotmail.com (Tran Tuan Anh)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 01:41:06 -0700
Subject: Sorting and list comprehension
Message-ID: <ed89f8f2.0410100041.71c20541@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I would like to do the followings, but I am quite new to Python hence
have not figured it out how...

salary = dictionary
salary["Bob"] = 11
salary["Marry"] = 4
salary["me"]= 45

How can I have a sort_value() function acts like this:
result = sortvalue(salary)
result = ["Marry","Bob","me"]

In sort, I would like to sort the key according to the values.

Regarding the list construction, how can I do this:

list = [item for item in list1 if for all item2 in list2 NOT
bad_condition(item, item2]

Anyone has any idea?
Thanks a lot!
Tuan-Anh


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  5 15:17:52 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 19:17:52 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:

>>Take for example if I were to claim that I were a graduate student in
>>computer science theory at the University of California, Irvine.  A
>>little bit of investigation would lead you to discover that I am
>>likely the person I claim to be (header examination, university search,
>>etc.).
>>
> I could care less honestly.

I've always been curious about that phrase.  It seems to imply
that you _do_ care, since it would be possible for you to care
less than you do.  Shouldn't the expression be "I couldn't care
less"?

> I'll come back to usenet when I have more explicit and
> specific questions relating to Python.

You can ask general and broad-reaching questions if you want
to, but you're expected to do a modicum of research on your own
to try to find the answers.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  LOOK!!! I'm WALKING
                                  at               in my SLEEP again!!
                               visi.com            


From theller at python.net  Thu Oct  7 14:40:13 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:40:13 +0200
Subject: Ctypes error
References: <ck3qg3$cs6$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <1xga4bjm.fsf@python.net>

Michele Petrazzo <michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it> writes:

> I'm using ctypes v 0.9.1 on linux for the first time.
>
> Then I try to use create_unicode_buffer(), I receive this error:
>
> File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ctypes/__init__.py", line 74,
> in create_unicode_buffer
>      buftype = c_wchar * init
> NameError: global name 'c_wchar' is not defined
>
> In __init__ file I see that at line:
> 208 if _os.name == "nt":
> 214  class c_wchar(_SimpleCData):
>
> This class if only for "nt" ?
>
> Thanks,
> Michele Petrazzo

Ok, it seems I missed to put the create_unicode_buffer inside an if:

  if os.name == "nt":

The deeper issue is that the unicode stuff in ctypes is only compiled in
when the Python header files define the HAVE_USABLE_WCHAR_T symbol.  Of
the systems I build and test on, only Windows defines this.

I'm not really sure that this is really the right thing to do,
maybe this should be sufficient:

#if Py_UNICODE_SIZE == 2

Thomas


From michael at stroeder.com  Mon Oct 18 03:38:10 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:38:10 +0200
Subject: Python Library Reference is tutorial, not reference
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5060.1097963171.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <opsfy32lax6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>
	<mailman.5060.1097963171.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3g8c42-692.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
> Having used (read and written) pydoc/javadoc-style documentation before,
> I am personally not a big fan of them.  I much prefer the conversational
> and sometimes tutorial style of standard Python documentation, to an
> arbitrary API reference.

Me too.

Ciao, Michael.


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Oct 11 07:29:30 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:29:30 +0200
Subject: Linenumbers: inspect.getinnerframes vs. traceback.format_exception
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.11.11.29.28.61181@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi,

the line numbers of inspect.getinnerframes are
different from traceback.format_exception.

This results in wrong lines being shown in cgitb.

An example is below.

I looked at the source of both methods. One uses f_lineno (wrong)
the other tb_lineno (correct).

I use python 2.3.3

Is this fixed in a newer version?

See:
===> python tb.py
Correct traceback (traceback.format_exception)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "tb.py", line 34, in ?
    main()
  File "tb.py", line 18, in main
    printtb()
  File "tb.py", line 13, in printtb
    assert(0)
AssertionError


Wrong traceback (inspect.getinnerframe)
  File "tb.py", line 34, ...
if __name__=="__main__":
  File "tb.py", line 18, ...
    printtb()
  File "tb.py", line 15, ...
        pass



tb.py:
#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-


# Python Imports
import os
import sys
import inspect
import traceback

def printtb():
    try:
        assert(0)
    except ValueError:
        pass

def main():
    printtb()

class Hook:
    def __call__(self, etype, evalue, etb):
        print "Correct traceback (traceback.format_exception)"
        print ''.join(traceback.format_exception(etype, evalue, etb))
        print
        print "Wrong traceback (inspect.getinnerframe)"
        context=5
        records = inspect.getinnerframes(etb, context)
        for frame, file, lnum, func, lines, index in records:
            print '  File "%s", line %s, ...\n%s' % (
                file, lnum, lines[context/2].rstrip())
            
if __name__=="__main__":
    sys.excepthook=Hook()
    main()





From nick at craig-wood.com  Thu Oct  7 12:29:57 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 16:29:57 GMT
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
	<DaKdnbspTNXGvfjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<71fam01oatd8g87d6dpacbn2mcku9pe4j1@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4502.1097159793.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncmaq17.4cu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Paul McNett <p at ulmcnett.com> wrote:
> > Some (many? all? negligibly few? I don't know) proxy
> > firewalls will tell you which internal address the request
> > came from, so you can combine the two to get a unique address
> > for that user.
> 
>  I'd say "negligibly few", since there really isn't good reason 
>  to give the world your internal ip address. Anyway, you can't 
>  count on it, and you wouldn't have a basis to know what 
>  percentage weren't unique.

An awful lot of proxies do do exactly that (I used this technique
before).

HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR and REMOTE_ADDR are the headers you want

Its not safe to use this as a unique address for a user but if you are
interested in exactly where your users are (for fraud checking
purposes) its a useful technique.

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct 29 07:00:14 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 04:00:14 -0700
Subject: logging question
References: <mailman.5609.1098967531.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clqt0b$3k3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410290300.13191094@posting.google.com>

> Whether there is a way to automatically replicate a logger hierarchy I don't
> know.

Peter is right about the formatting. I'm not sure what's meant by
'replicate a logger hierarchy' - if you mean complete with handlers,
formatters, etc. then the only ways of doing this are by using the
same API calls on both sides, or loading the configuration of both
sides from a shared configuration file. If you are sending logging
events across a network, then the normal configuration is to just have
a socket or datagram handler on the source side of the connection, and
on the sink side the messages are handled as per Peter's code -
formatted, written to file, emailed or whatever. However, you can use
any logger name you like on the receiving side - the one that came in
on the LogRecord, or something prepended/appended to the logger name
in the LogRecord.

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Fri Oct 15 13:21:27 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:21:27 +0100
Subject: operation with strings and numbers
In-Reply-To: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it>
References: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it>
Message-ID: <ckp0uv$10e$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Hellas wrote:
> Could you help me please?
> thanks a lot 

I suggest you read this:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

And then read this:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/typesseq-strings.html

If you still can't figure it out, use the hints in the first document 
and ask again.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From noone at here.com  Tue Oct  5 13:49:35 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:49:35 +0100
Subject: Alex if you have any patience left please look at this
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjrvna$rf4$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjs36a$c14$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<1gl5l5t.k9lpmq1rn8gt5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cjsj9g$bh8$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjui27$dj3$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<1gl776a.6zkpal1d31a01N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cjumni$thg$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi Alex,

A quick reply, thankyou. I'd been experimenting with it to see how it worked
and didn't put it back together right...
It now works perfectly.

All the best,

Malcolm




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 29 09:31:03 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:31:03 -0400
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
In-Reply-To: <just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>
	<1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <n5qdnS65dp2K2x_cRVn-1w@powergate.ca>

Just wrote:
> In article <1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
>  aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
>>Seconded!  Python 2.5 should be mostly about standard-library
>>enhancements, and ctypes would be a huge enhancement to Python's stdlib.
> 
> In general, Guido is very reluctant to accept thing which make is easy 
> to cause segfaults. I predict you'll have a very hard time convincing 
> him...

That's too bad, because it's really not that easy to cause segfaults
with it.

I'm speaking practically, as someone who has used ctypes in a dozen
different utilities and applications, and who hasn't always read the
docs, and who has experimented sometimes in ways that in a language
like C would cause segfaults, but with ctypes: no segfaults to date.

I'm obviously not saying it's not possible to cause segfaults
with ctypes.  Almost anyone could probably come up with a way in a
few minutes or less.

I _am_ saying that casual use over the period of several years
has not led to any segfaults for _me_, and the benefits have
been huge.

Nobody is forcing someone to use ctypes, and I suppose if one
chooses to use it, one probably has some idea of the dangers of
what one is doing.

Of course, nobody is forcing anyone to include ctypes in the
standard distribution either, but it seems that the choice should
be made based more on what ctype's *users* think about it than
what someone who perhaps has rarely or never actually used it
thinks.  Or is Guido a regular ctypes user (and presumably one
who has often triggered unexpected segfaults, at that)?

-Peter


From luismg at gmx.net  Mon Oct 11 00:52:28 2004
From: luismg at gmx.net (Neuruss)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 21:52:28 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <278de0e.0410102052.693297d7@posting.google.com>

> "Python-like" means very little. Make it run python code
> then you'll see a lot more interest from this group.

I find it very interesting.


From ville at spammers.com  Sat Oct  9 10:30:51 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 09 Oct 2004 17:30:51 +0300
Subject: proposals for having more fun with map
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410091223580.27361-100000@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <du7zn2w2cbo.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Tom" == Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> writes:

    Tom> wanting to do all the time, so i either end up throwing lambdas all over
    Tom> the place to glue the dicts into map, or writing a little helper function
    Tom> like so:

    Tom> def functor(dict):
    Tom>     return lambda arg: dict[arg]

See http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/305318

#itemgetter: also of course works with dictionaries
data= ( {'name':'fred','score':50},{'name':'betty','score':75})
print map(operator.itemgetter('name'),data)
>>> ['fred', 'betty']

    Tom> this isn't hard, of course, but it's the sort of thing that
    Tom> ought to be done once and only once.

Indeed ;-).

    Tom> again, trivial, but if i'm writing this out in almost every
    Tom> program i write, other people must be too, so it's worth
    Tom> putting in the core.

Actually, the more likely future of map is moving *out* of the core,
to a "functional" module of some sort. List comprehensions (and soon
genexps) are the recommended approach.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Oct 16 22:27:07 2004
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:27:07 -0700
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-09-16 through 2004-09-30
Message-ID: <4171D87B.2000306@ocf.berkeley.edu>

python-dev Summary for 2004-09-16 through 2004-09-30
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ from September 
16, 2004 through September 30, 2004.  It is intended to inform the wider Python 
community of on-going developments on the list.  To comment on anything 
mentioned here, just post to `comp.lang.python`_ (or email 
python-list at python.org which is a gateway to the newsgroup) with a subject line 
mentioning what you are discussing. All python-dev members are interested in 
seeing ideas discussed by the community, so don't hesitate to take a stance on 
something.  And if all of this really interests you then get involved and join 
`python-dev`_!

This is the forty-ninth summary written by Brett Cannon (Wow, my thesis gives 
an entire .5% speed-up on pystone at the moment; ain't that grand...).

To contact me, please send email to brett at python.org ; I do not have the 
time to keep up on comp.lang.python and thus do not always catch follow-ups 
posted there.

All summaries are archived at http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ .

Please note that this summary is written using reStructuredText_ which can be 
found at http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html .  Any unfamiliar punctuation is 
probably markup for reST_ (otherwise it is probably regular expression syntax 
or a typo =); you can safely ignore it, although I suggest learning reST; it's 
simple and is accepted for `PEP markup`_ and gives some perks for the HTML 
output.  Also, because of the wonders of programs that like to reformat text, I 
cannot guarantee you will be able to run the text version of this summary 
through Docutils_ as-is unless it is from the `original text file`_.

.. _PEP Markup: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0012.html

The in-development version of the documentation for Python can be found at
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ and should be used when looking up any
documentation on new code; otherwise use the current documentation as found at
http://docs.python.org/ .  PEPs (Python Enhancement Proposals) are located at 
http://www.python.org/peps/ .  To view files in the Python CVS online, go to 
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/ .  Reported bugs and 
suggested patches can be found at the SourceForge_ project page.

The `Python Software Foundation`_ is the non-profit organization that holds the 
intellectual property for Python.  It also tries to forward the development and 
use of Python.  But the PSF_ cannot do this without donations.  You can make a 
donation at http://python.org/psf/donations.html .  Every penny helps so even a 
small donation (you can donate through PayPal or by check) helps.

.. _python-dev: http://www.python.org/dev/
.. _SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470
.. _python-dev mailing list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
.. _comp.lang.python: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python
.. _Docutils: http://docutils.sf.net/
.. _reST:
.. _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html
.. _PSF:
.. _Python Software Foundation: http://python.org/psf/

.. contents::

.. _last summary: http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-09-01_2004-09-15.html
.. _original text file: http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-09-16_2004-09-30.ht



=====================
Summary Announcements
=====================
Wow.  This must have been the easiest summary I have ever done.  Why can't they 
all be like this?  I didn't even skip that much!

This summary also marks the first instance of having a contributing writer 
(ignoring the time when Raymond Hettinger was guest writer and wrote the whole 
summary himself).  So thanks to Michael Chermside for writing up those 
summaries.  And this is open to anyone, so if you feel that one of the skipped 
threads is worth summarizing and you catch it on the draft I send out of the 
Summary please mail them to me and it will probably get included.


=========
Summaries
=========
------------------------------------------
Assume nothing when mutability is possible
------------------------------------------
Tim Peters discovered a new way to create an infinite list thanks to generator 
expressions.  But what really came out of this whole discussion came about when 
someone else came up with an example that exposed a bug in list.extend().

The first thing was that "you can't assume anything about a mutable object 
after potentially calling back into Python."  Basically you can't assume the 
state of any mutable object was not changed if you execute Python code from C. 
  While it might seem handy to store state while in a loop for instance, you 
can't count on things not changing by the time you get control back so you just 
have to do it the hard way and get state all over again.

Second was that you need to be careful when dealing with iterators.  If you 
mutate an iterator while iterating you don't have a guarantee it won't explode 
in your face.  Unless you explicitly support it, document it, and take care to 
protect against it then just don't assume you can mutate an iterator while 
using it.

Contributing threads:
   - `A cute new way to get an infinite loop 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/049054.html>`__
   - `More data points 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/049080.html>`__

-----------------------------
The fewer licenses the better
-----------------------------
The idea of copying some code from OpenSSH_ for better pty handling was 
proposed.  This was frowned upon since that becomes one more legal issue to 
keep track of.  Minimizing the licenses that Python must keep track of and make 
sure to comply with, no matter how friendly, is a good thing.

.. _OpenSSH: http://www.openssh.org/

Contributing threads:
   - `using openssh's pty code 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/049085.html>`__

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Trying to deal with the exception hierarchy in a backwards-friendly way
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Coghlan came up with the idea of having a tuple that contained all of the 
exceptions you normally would not want to catch in a blanket 'except' 
statement; KeyboardInterrupt, MemoryError, SystemExit, etc.).  This tuple was 
proposed to live in sys.special_exceptions with the intended usage of::

  try:
    pass # stuff...
  except sys.special_exceptions:
    raise # exceptions that you would not want to catch should keep propogating 
up the call chain
  except:
    pass # if you reach here the exception should not be a *huge* deal

Obviously the best solution is to just clean up the exception hierarchy, but 
that breaks backwards-compatibility.  But this idea seemed to lose steam.

Contributing threads:
   - `Proposing a sys.special_exceptions tuple 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/049139.html>`__

--------------
Built on beer!
--------------
by Michael Chermside

In this short thread Guido admits that Python *is* really built on
beer: "...it's true! During the early days, when hacking on Python,
I often lived on stroopwafels and beer."

Contributing threads:
    - `built on beer? 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/049032.html>`__

-----------------------------------
Docs still available in gzip format
-----------------------------------
by Michael Chermside

Fred Drake suggested that we stop providing the Python
documentation in gzip format. We offered the zip and bzip2 formats which have
unique advantages (bzip2 compresses better and zip has a directory built in so
individual files can be extracted) over gzip and he wanted to reduce the number
of different formats offered. However, there was much dissention, so the
final decision was to retain the format.

Contributing threads:
    - `Planning to drop gzip compression for future releases. 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/048987.html>`__

---------------------------------------------------------
Making running stdlib modules as scripts that much easier
---------------------------------------------------------
Nick Coghlan contributed a patch for a new command-line option, ``-m``, that 
will search sys.path for a module of that name and execute it as a 
``__main__``.  This can be really handy for things such as checking the 
docstrings of a module (``python -m pydoc heapq``) and such.

Currently, though, it only for top-level modules in sys.path and thus ignores 
packages.  If you want that functionality there is a recipe by Nick on the 
Python Cookbook at 
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/307772 .  There is also 
discussions going on python-dev about how to possibly add this in the future.

Contributing threads:
   - `Running a module as a script 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/049138.html>`__


===============
Skipped Threads
===============

- Decimal, copyright and license
- Noam's open regex requests
- Socket/Asyncore bug needs attention
- open('/dev/null').read() -> MemoryError
- Finding the module from PyTypeObject?
- Odd compile errors for bad genexps


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Fri Oct 29 23:32:21 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:32:21 -0700
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5683.1099079698.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <clrke5$a3n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0410282309470.21849-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>
	<mailman.5683.1099079698.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clv204$nh8$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Donnal Walter wrote:

[snip]

> 1. Is there a compelling reason for PA *not* to use a CL license (say 
> Gnu GPL) for OApps and BigApp? These are "end-user" applications, not 
> system components.

Not terribly compelling to my mind, but:
Some people avoid copylefted works out of (pick one or more: habit, 
ignorance, irrational fear, rational avoidance of licensing 
complexity/uncertainty, any number of things I can't think of off the 
top of my head). CApp authors will almost assuredly use OApps as 
examples for using the framework. A license like the GPL for BigApp 
could limit which CApps you can include because of incompatibilities.

> 2. Am I right in thinking that the license for FW will have little or no 
> legal bearing on the licenses contributors choose for CApps?

If the license you use for the framework is strong copylefted (e.g. GPL) 
as opposed to weak copylefted (e.g. LGPL), then the license *will* have 
a strong bearing on the license used for contributed apps.

> 3. Am I right in thinking that a CL license for BigApp would encourage
> (but not require?) using CL for CApps (if they want them included)?

*shrug* I think that strongly depends on the community that you build 
around your software. If I'm not involved in the community, I'm more 
likely to choose a license for my apps which is in my best 
interests/desires and meets the requirements of the licenses of the 
libraries I am using. Only if there is a strong community that pushes 
for a particular license am I likely to deviate from that preference. 
BigApp's license alone wouldn't do that for me.

> 4. Will either a CL or NCL license for FW affect the likelihood of 
> receiving improvements from programmers outside the field of interest?

Probably, but I would doubt that anyone can tell you how either choice 
will affect contributions. Many people will come up with arguments for 
either position ("GPL will drive programmers away!" "GPL will gives 
programmers assurance that everyone will give back to the community!"). 
Ignore them. They know less than you.

> 5. If PA chooses a CL license for FW, can it later be changed to NCL in 
> order to be combined with FW2?

If you not only are the principal author but also the sole copyright 
owner, then yes. If you fold in changes from other people without having 
them assign copyright to you or have them license those changes under a 
permissive license (BSD, MIT, PSF, and the like), then you must obtain 
permission to relicense from each of them. This can be a problem sometimes.

> 6. If PA choses a NCL license for FW, can it later be changed to CL in 
> order to be combined with FW3?

Similar answer as above. If the non-copyleft license is permissive like 
BSD, etc. then your headaches are greatly reduced.

IANAL. TINLA.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Thu Oct 28 16:22:30 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:22:30 -0700
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5617.1098981687.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>	<97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA@rogers.com>	<C62dnYO2h5XrZuLcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5617.1098981687.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clrke5$a3n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Donnal Walter wrote:

> Thanks for this reference and the one to Creative Commons. Is there a 
> good mailing list or on-line forum appropriate for discussing licensing 
> issues? I wouldn't mind discussing my questions here as I have the 
> highest regard for the participants in c.l.p, but my questions are 
> mostly off topic for this list. I'm still struggling with the copyleft 
> vs non-copyleft issue, for example, and there may be a more appropriate 
> place to discuss this.

http://www.opensource.org/licenses/#email

I do recommend reading some of the archives first. Some of your 
questions have been tread over many times on that list.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct 18 16:46:28 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:46:28 -0700
Subject: By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <1glvhih.mackqd12vhs62N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5131.1098126770.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glvhih.mackqd12vhs62N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041018133211.0A4B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> The key point is that, in both languages, a function's arguments are
> just like local variables pre-initialized by the caller with assignment
> statements.  In both languages, if the function reassigns an argument
> it's just playing with its own local variables, the caller is never in
> any way affected by that.  In both languages, there are other ways
> except plain barename assignments to possibly "affect the caller" (in C
> you basically need to have been passed a pointer, and dereference that
> pointer or another pointer computed from the first by pointer
> arithmetic; in Python you basically need to have been passed a mutable
> object, and call mutating methods on that object).  Again, in both cases
> I see simplicity and consistency, everything pretty explicit...

I agree with most everything you have said, though consider the pointer
vs. value of C to define the semantics of the passing.  That is, if you
get a pointer in C, it is by reference.  If you don't get a pointer, it
is by value.

I also agree that everything is pure and explicit in both languages, it
took me a few minutes mucking around with the interpreter my first time
to understand how Python deals with the base types.

I'm trying to point out that if you toss the standard C semantic
definition of "pass by value" and "pass by reference", by merely
pretending that the definitions have not been given in the history of
computer science, and just look at how Python does actual name binding
in namespaces/scopes, you can understand what Python does much better
than to get into a "Python does pass by reference" vs. "Python does pass
by value" argument.


 - Josiah



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 12 23:52:31 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:52:31 -0700
Subject: Secure Python code - volunteers for code review?
In-Reply-To: <1097637663.543580.126100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1097637663.543580.126100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041012205021.091B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> I would really value it if any security aware Python guru was able to
> review the code from a security perspective.  It would be good to
> ensure that python or sql code planted in an email or an attachment
> could not execute and break out of the script - or that any other
> security issue might arise.  But how - I don't have anything near the
> level of Python expertise required to properly assess this script for
> security risk?  If someone has the time to do a code review it would be
> much appreciated.

You can save yourself many concerns by encoding your data in some
fashion that cannot be understood by the database to mean anything.  Hex
works well for that.

In terms of general script security, you should be more specific about
what you are worried about.

 - Josiah



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Oct  5 16:53:27 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 13:53:27 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <ad052e5c.0410050043.29fb9550@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ad052e5c.0410050043.29fb9550@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10m62atl8vmk576@corp.supernews.com>

Dan Bishop wrote:

>Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list at python.org>...
>  
>
>>44. Case or Switch statements with functionality as such:
>>case score
>>when 0...40
>>   puts "Horrible!"
>>when 40...60
>>   puts "Poor"
>>when 60...80
>>   puts "You can do better!"
>>when 80...95
>>   puts "Now that's acceptable"
>>when 95..100
>>   puts "That the best you can do?  j/k"
>>else
>>   puts "Didn't take the test?"
>>end
>>    
>>
>
>Python does not have a switch/case construct.  Your example would
>normally be written as an if...elif...else ladder.
>  
>

Or, in situations where the case conditions can be narrowed to a single 
value (possibly with the aid of a custom classification function), one 
could use a dictionary dispatch.

def func1():
    print "Func1"
def func2():
    print "Func2"
def func3():
    print "Func3"

dispatcher = { 0: func1, 1: func2, 2: func3 }

i = int(score / 10)
myfunc = dispatcher[i]
myfunc()

This idiom requires a bit more in the way of setup (you're choosing an 
object, not a statement, so statements must be wrapped in 
functions/classes; the selection criteria must be a hashable value), but 
the result is (imho) a much cleaner structure.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Tue Oct 12 04:32:35 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:32:35 +0200
Subject: httplib ResponseNotReady
Message-ID: <416B96A3.2010400@geochemsource.com>


  Hi All,

There was a discussion about a bug in httplib. After 100 (continue), 
when you want to GET a page, you will get a ResponseNotReady exception 
instead.
I'm having the same problem here. I'm using Python 2.3.2. Does anyone 
know if this problem has been solved? Are there patches?
Kind regards,

   Laci 2.0




From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 15:18:34 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 12:18:34 -0700
Subject: ANN: curses-extra 0.2
References: <pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050@cut.me.sideralis.net>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410141118.6d3ac74d@posting.google.com>

Riccardo Galli <riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050 at cut.me.sideralis.net>...
> First official release :)
> 
> curses-extra offers various widgets wrotten using curses module.
> 

I always wanted something like that!
I wish I had the time to try it out ...
Question: would it be very difficult to run it on Windows using the F-bot console 
module as a curses replacement?

           Michele Simionato


From koko9991 at compuserve.de  Fri Oct 29 04:59:46 2004
From: koko9991 at compuserve.de (Konrad Koller)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:59:46 GMT
Subject: Ubuntu Linux loves Python: What is pysqlite?
References: <cjmc42$420$1@wheel2.two14.net>
	<l79qn0hstavonfavcmbfcp2o8ffahv81n6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4182047c.929435750@news.compuserve.de>

>Installation is short and sweet, the Gnome desktop is functional and
>nice to look at and the debian package system is awsome. BUT I've
>allready found some outdated packages, like pysqlite, which doesn't
>work with code I've made on Windows using pysqlite 1.0. 
>Download and install it now!!! ( And make an updated ubuntu-package of
>pysqlite while you're at it ;-) )

Sorry, but I do not know what pysqlite is.


From zathras at thwackety.com  Sat Oct 16 10:42:22 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:42:22 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
In-Reply-To: <du7zn2malsn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410161540300.12653-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On 16 Oct 2004, Ville Vainio wrote:

> >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Sparks <zathras at thwackety.com> writes:
>
>     Michael> Being more specific though... It also frustrates me that
>     Michael> I can write something I find useful and then cannot
>     Michael> afford to pass it onto friends who use windows, even if
>     Michael> there's no commercial value in it.
>
> What we are seeing here is a horrible waste of coding - 95% of the
> desktop world runs on Windows, and if a piece of software is unusable
> for 95% of the potential userbase... that just sucks.

What if the developer only intended to write the tool for himself, and
happens to make it available to that extra 5% though? That's a net gain
from 1 person surely?

That's the way I personally tend to look at it. :-)


Michael.



From skywalkerpackage at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 04:14:34 2004
From: skywalkerpackage at hotmail.com (Johannes Eble)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:14:34 +0200
Subject: Python-Matlab extensions: Comparisons?
References: <uhu1m0t4euvekl61ilengepdhuettvmutr@4ax.com>
	<cjqvuh$sg5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <rgu9m090pa2p7dhveph9ffh83krnbs2l1n@4ax.com>

Hi Robert,

thanks very much for your advice. I will start with SciPy and IPython.


Best regards


Johannes





From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct  7 10:09:55 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 14:09:55 GMT
Subject: Problem with telnetlib dropping receive bytes.
References: <41649ff5$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ck368l$27e$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <41654e33$0$59540$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-07, Eddie Corns <eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
>
>>Why are NUL and DC1 characters being deleted from the recieve
>>data stream at lines 431 and 433?  They're both perfectly legal
>>characters.  I can't find anywhere in RFC 854 where it says to
>>do that, and it's breaking my program.  Some of the other
>>telnet features (e.g. RFC 2217) specifically use those two byte
>>values.
>
> Looks like a bug to me.  Telnet requires that ALL 7 bit
> characters can be used.  Since it's all handled in Python I
> can't think of any reason why those characters would be a
> problem.

That's what I thought, but since somebody went out of their way
to drop those two characters, I thought I'd better check. I'll
submit a patch once I've spent some more time with telnetlib.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Are you still an
                                  at               ALCOHOLIC?
                               visi.com            


From none at pacbell.net  Mon Oct 11 12:19:41 2004
From: none at pacbell.net (Richard)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:19:41 GMT
Subject: DISLIN or gnuplot.py
References: <pan.2004.10.10.20.50.39.807116@pacbell.net>
	<mailman.4703.1097503256.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.11.16.19.41.630762@pacbell.net>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:12:16 -0500, John Hunter wrote:

>>>>>> "Richard" == Richard  <none at pacbell.net> writes:
> 
>     Richard> I am going to need to plot some data and formula results
>     Richard> from Python.  
> 
> I suggest looking at matplotlib.  Although it is not as mature as
> DISLIN and gnuplot, it is progressing rapidly and supports most 2D
> plotting needs, with the remaining gaps closing quickly (see
> http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html for a quick
> snapshot of capabilities).
> 
> 
> http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net
> 
> 
> JDH

Thank you for the reply.

It looks like matplotlib will handle my immediate plotting from 
Python needs.  

The 'goals' page on the matplotlib web site state
that there has been some 'proof-of-concept' work completed on
3-d visualization.  Any estimate on when there might be some
3-d plotting support?

Richard



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Oct 22 19:05:21 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 19:05:21 -0400
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
References: <mailman.5254.1098346524.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ZFQdd.8495$6q2.7811@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <clc3nh$bmi$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <ZFQdd.8495$6q2.7811 at newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
John Fabiani  <jfabiani at yolo.com> wrote:
>
>My only question is what happens when SQLLite becomes out of favor
>i.e. TK is today?

Tkinter isn't precisely out of favor, even now.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 21 13:55:35 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:55:35 -0700
Subject: Actual memory used by an object --- How to Determine?
In-Reply-To: <E1CKcEE-0005j6-00@localhost>
References: <E1CKcEE-0005j6-00@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041021100616.0AB2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


zooko at zooko.com wrote:
> Here some some functions I've used to analyze memory usage in the past.
> 
> http://mnetproject.org/repos/pyutil/pyutil/memutil.py

The site is down.


> There may be bugs.  If so, please fix them or at least report them.

I'd look if I could get it.

 - Josiah



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 10:23:10 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:23:10 +0200
Subject: Method Underscores? (and a 'solution')
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298@jerf.org>
	<1gm17go.1r662ynelfha7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<pan.2004.10.21.20.08.48.57327@jerf.org>
	<1gm1um6.zgqbbe8x559fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4178F24C.5010004@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <1gm2fs0.1wc9vf61okndnvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
   ...
> > tell application "Microsoft Word"
> >    open "MyWordFile"
> >    set selection to paragraph 1
> >    data size of selection as string
> > end tell
   ...
> > were cross-platform, it might perhaps make an even better beginners'
> > language than Python (and I think that of few languages).  It doesn't
> > scale up as well as Python, though, it appears to me.
> > 
> Yeah, it does have that Logo-like quality about it, doesn't it? For 
> beginners, of course, it's typically more interesting to be able to 
> write scripts to get their computers to do things they'd otherwise have
> to do themselves, so AppleScript-for-Windows might be a good Python project!

Yes, but mapping the simple "apple events" on which applescript is based
(and which are widespread in applications as well as the OS on the Mac,
e.g. MS Office apps implement them) to COM's richer and more complex
ways (and COM/Automation enjoys a similar prominence on Windows and its
applications) sounds like quite a task, requiring deep understanding of
both platforms.  Maybe I'm being pessimistic...


Alex


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Wed Oct 13 15:59:14 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:59:14 -0400
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <4qky5s8r.fsf@python.net>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4866.1097680786.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zUcbd.32564$3C6.1308279@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4875.1097688444.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Arebd.33298$3C6.1330114@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<4qky5s8r.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <lOfbd.33435$3C6.1350545@news20.bellglobal.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> In this case, you could also look at the ctypes module, it implements C
> compatible structures and unions.
> 
> And for your original question: why do you insist on your new syntax,
> why don't you simply (as ctypes also does it) define the attributes in a
> list, when they have to have a certain order?

I just looked at ctypes, and yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.  I want 
the structures definitions to be modified by C++ programmers and I find 
the metaclass mechanism much more readable and easy to modify (and it's 
not a lot of code to make everything work).  I agree everything can be 
done using normal Python code, but my goal here is really to make a 
pseudo-language to define our formats, and the pseudo-language is just a 
simpler solution than XML in my specific case.  Probably all cases of 
such using of metaclasses are like that...

Regards,
Nicolas


From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 10:55:16 2004
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 07:55:16 -0700
Subject: Reading XML like Python!
References: <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534@posting.google.com>
	<slrncntq1h.2m0.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <283adf56.0410280655.1f40f09e@posting.google.com>

Dave Cook <davecook at nowhere.net> wrote in message 
> Check out xmlobject:

I was looking for something exactly like this last week. Amazing how
much code it cuts out.  Thanks for posting the link.


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sat Oct 16 08:18:46 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:18:46 +0100
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02>
Message-ID: <ckr3j8$9fq$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Chris S. wrote:
> I have a number of strings, containing wildcards (e.g. 'abc#e#' where # 
> is anything), which I want to match with a test string (e.g 'abcdef'). 
> What would be the best way for me to store my strings so lookup is as 
> fast as possible?

If it were me, I would store them as compiled regular expressions.

See the re module documentation and use re.compile().

If you want a better solution, it might help if you supply a little more 
information about your problem and why this solution is unsuitable 
(maybe it is :]).
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 13:56:10 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:56:10 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:

> In article <1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
> Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> The problem is that CPython doesn't have thread-local storage.
> >
> >In 2.4 it does -- see threading.local documentation at
> ><http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-threading.html> (and
> >even better, the docstring of the new _threading_local module).
> 
> IIUC, that's not thread-local storage in the sense that I'm using the
> term (and which I believe is standard usage).  Values created with
> thread-local storage module are still allocated on the heap, and it's
> still possible to use introspection to access thread-local data in
> another thread.

Is it...?  Maybe I'm missing something...:

import threading

made_in_main = threading.local()
made_in_main.foo = 23
def f():
    print 'foo in made_in_main is', getattr(made_in_main, 'foo', None)

print 'in main thread:',
f()
t = threading.Thread(target=f)
print 'in subthread:',
t.start()
t.join()
print 'back in main thread:',
f()

What I see is:

kallisti:~/cb/little_neat_things alex$ python2.4 lots.py 
in main thread: foo in made_in_main is 23
in subthread: foo in made_in_main is None
back in main thread: foo in made_in_main is 23

so how does a subthread introspect to 'break the rules'...?  (preferably
in a platform-independent way rather than by taking advantage of quirks
of implementation or one or another platform)

> Don't get me wrong; I think it's a brilliant addition to Python.
> Unfortunately, it doesn't help with the real issues with making the
> Python core free-threaded (or anything more fine-grained than the GIL).

I'm not claiming it does, mind you!  It's just that it DOES seem to me
to be a "true" implementation of the "thread-specific storage" design
pattern, and I don't know of any distinction between that DP and the
synonym "thread-local storage" (Schmidt et al used both interchangeably,
if I'm not mistaken).


Alex


From d-hanst at online.no  Fri Oct 22 15:56:16 2004
From: d-hanst at online.no (Dag Hansteen)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:56:16 +0200
Subject: Connecting to IRC using socket module
Message-ID: <002801c4b871$3119dbd0$4e01a8c0@dagan>

Hello!

Somehow I dont make this work, can anyone please 
correct me?

There is no error, but it just kinda halts after I get "NOTICE AUTH: *** Found your hostname", I assume theres something with the PONG reply, but I can't figure it out.


# CODE:

from socket import *

host = "oslo.no.eu.undernet.org"
port = 6667
buf = 1024
addr = (host, port)

first = 'NICK dagan'
second = 'USER dag "" "oslo.no.eu.undernet.org" :python bot'

sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)


sock.connect(addr)
sock.sendto(first, addr)
print "-> "+first

sock.sendto(second, addr)
print "-> "+second


while 1:
    data, addr = sock.recvfrom(buf)
    
    f = open("debug.txt", "w")
    f.write(data+"\n")
    
    if data.startswith("PING :"):
        sock.send("PONG :"+data[6:])
        break
    
    else:     
        print "<- "+data
        print addr

print "I hope I soon will see this message.. yes, this message! woohoo"

sock.send("join #scripting")

while 1:
    data, addr = sock.recvfrom(buf)
    print "<- "+data
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041022/040cba3b/attachment.html>

From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Oct 28 08:49:32 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:49:32 GMT
Subject: Open Source License Question
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<2u9hklF24n4b1U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<T82dnedQ8YiFBuLcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>
	<z6Nfd.755$K7.388@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<_-adnfiRi4tmPOLcRVn-1A@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <wV5gd.1901$K7.1490@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Peter Hansen:

> I haven't been trying to keep up to date on this issue, but these
> guys seem to feel there is something along those lines that can be done:
> http://creativecommons.org/  (Specifically,
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ )
>
> By how far does that miss your mark?

   It appears to be the same as just declaring that your work is in the
public domain. Since you still own and can not relinquish copyright, there
is nothing to stop you changing your mind and requiring payment from those
who believed your declaration.

   Neil




From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Thu Oct 28 21:27:47 2004
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:27:47 -0700
Subject: comparing multiple copies of terrabytes of data?
References: <mailman.5446.1098734965.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Y6adnT9_jr6Ny-PcRVn-hQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.5517.1098807918.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.29.01.27.44.977637@dcs.nac.uci.edu>


Folks, I'm a little overwhelmed by how helpful this thread has been to me
- thanks a bunch.

I'd like to point out that I have some code written up
that I hope to use correctly the first time, in verifying that our three
copies of a 3+ terrabyte collection of data...  well, that the first copy
is a (not-necessarily-proper) subset of the other two copies.  Once we
sign off, saying "the data copies look correct", then IBM's going to say
"OK, for better or worse, it's your storage system now, problems and all."

This storage system is the first of its kind in the known universe (as
far as the filesystem software combined with very high storage density
linux boxes), and I'm guessing that there's around $500K sunk into it,
just on hardware.  -But-, it's far cheaper than almost any other solution
of its size.

I'll add that both the system we are transitioning from is opensource from
Redhat, and is apparently pureplay GPL, and the system we are
transitioning to is from ClusterFS, which has a dual-license GPL/Closed
source thing going on (where the Closed source stuff is transitioned to
GPL eventually, kind of like Alladin ghostscript).

Rather than letting the specifics of the situation creep into the code too
much, I've tried to make it into a fairly general, reusable tool that
others might be able to benefit from as well.

You basically give the program a sampling frequency (number of files to
skip before checking one), and a list of directories.  It uses md5
hashes to keep resource utilization down.

I'm basically soliciting additional eyeballs for what I hope I've
persuaded you is a good cause for more than one reason, if you find
yourself with some time and curiosity.  It's 108 lines of code (including
the usage() function), and 15 lines of comments.

The URL is http://dcs.nac.uci.edu/~strombrg/verify.html

Thanks for even considering looking at this with me!



From loritsch at gmail.com  Sat Oct 16 13:34:53 2004
From: loritsch at gmail.com (Michael Loritsch)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 10:34:53 -0700
Subject: automatic accessors to a member var dict elements?
References: <mailman.4968.1097781955.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncmtp34.lr2.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <e253918f.0410160934.28d53f04@posting.google.com>

Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> wrote in message news:<slrncmtp34.lr2.nick at irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>...
> Christopher J. Bottaro <cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu> wrote:
> >  If I have the following class:
> > 
> >  class MyClass:
> >          def __init__(self):
> >                  m_dict = {}
> >                  m_dict['one'] = 1
> >                  m_dict['two'] = 2
> >                  m_dict['three'] = 3
> > 
> >  Is there anyway to generate automatic accessors to the elements of the dict? 
> >  For example, so I could say:
> > 
> >  obj = MyClass()
> >  obj.one # returns obj.my_dict['one']
> >  obj.one = 'won' # same as obj.my_dict['one'] = 'won'
> > 
> >  By automatic, I mean so I don't have to write out each method by hand and
> >  also dynamic, meaning if m_dict changes during runtime, the accessors are
> >  automatically updated to reflect the change.
> 
> Here is an old style class way of doing it.  I think there might be a
> better way with new style classes but I'm not up to speed on them!
> 
> Note care taken to set m_dict as self.__dict__["m_dict"] rather than
> self.m_dict otherwise the __setattr__ will recurse!  You can put a
> special case in __setattr__ if you prefer.
> 
> class MyClass:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.__dict__["m_dict"] = {}
>         self.m_dict['one'] = 1
>         self.m_dict['two'] = 2
>         self.m_dict['three'] = 3
>     def __getattr__(self, name):
>         return self.m_dict[name]
>     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
>         self.m_dict[name] = value
> 
> >>> obj = MyClass()
> >>> print obj.one
>  1
> >>> obj.one = 'won'
> >>> print obj.one
> won

To me, it appears the Christopher is simply looking for a way to
get/set members of a dictionary using a different syntax.

That being the case, why not create a pythonic solution like the one
above using new style classes, as we can derive directly from the dict
type?

In this case, we will just forward the __getattr__ and __setattr__
calls to __getitem__ and __setitem__, respectively.

Here is the equivalent solution:

class MyClass (dict):             #New style class derived from dict
type

    #Use same get/set syntax desired during construction
    def __init__(self): 
        self.one = 1              
        self.two = 2
        self.three = 3

    #Get/set syntax changed with simple forwarding functions
    def __getattr__(self, key):
        return self.__getitem__(key)
    def __setattr__(self, key, value):
        self.__setitem__(key, value)


Isn't this the type of thing that Guido van Rossum envisioned in
trying to unify types and classes?

Michael Loritsch


From usenet at mail-2-me.com  Thu Oct 14 16:21:39 2004
From: usenet at mail-2-me.com (Dirk Hagemann)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:21:39 +0200
Subject: Search-Filter for LDAP (MS Active Directory)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4951.1097766209.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4951.1097766209.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckmn4k$705$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Ames Andreas (MPA/DF) schrieb:
> Hello,
> 
> Dirk Hagemann wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'd like to know how to set up a query for all computer-accounts in
>>a special part of Active Directory by using LDAP.
>>
>>Example:
>>all computers with a name like "ABC*" at "..., ou=Production,
>>DC=business,DC=company,DC=com"
>>>From these computers I want to get their OS, Service Pack and some
>>other information.
> 
> 
> I use python-ldap (http://python-ldap.sf.net/) to access Active
> Directory.  Example:
> 
> # ----------------- code start -----------------
> import ldap, ldapurl
> 
> proto = 'ldap'
> server = 'youradserver.yourdomain.com'
> port = 389
> 
> url = ldapurl.LDAPUrl(urlscheme=proto,
>                       hostport="%s:%s" % (server,
>                       str(port))).initializeUrl()
> ldap_obj = ldap.initialize(url)
> 
> # !!!password will be on wire in plaintext!!!
> ldap_obj = ldap_obj.simple_bind_s('<domainuser>',
>                                   '<password>')
> 
> # search only within given subtree
> base = 'ou=Production, DC=business, dc=yourdomain, dc=com'
> 
> # search scope see rfcs for explanation; in your case it's probably:
> scope = ldap.SCOPE_SUBTREE
> 
> # this is the beef, i.e. the rfc2254 filter the following matches all
> # entries in the directory, which might be many.  OTOH, you often have
> # server site limits on how much search hits may be returned for a
> # single query; I dunno how this is changed within the query (probably
> # some filter extension magic I haven't used yet)
> query = '(objectclass=*)'
> 
> # now your job is to find out the right query string; I don't know if
> # for example computer accounts have a special objectclass, so I'll
> # just assume it is called 'cAccount'.  Further I don't know which
> # attribute type denotes the name of the computer account you
> # mentioned; I'll just assume its type is called 'displayname'.  Under
> # these assumptions your example above would translate to the
> # following query (which won't work because my assumptions are
> # certainly wrong):
> # query = '(&(objectclass=cAccount)(displayname=abc*))'
> 
> # limit the attribute types which you want to see in the result
> # the following will give you the values of all attribute types of
> # all matching directory entries
> res_attrs = ['*']
> 
> res = ldap_obj.search_ext_s(base, scope, query, res_attrs)
> print res
> # ----------------- code end -----------------
> 
> 
> I haven't tested this special code but I'm using similar code on a
> daily basis.
> 
> If you are like many people and don't like plaintext passwords on the
> wire you have at least two alternatives:  TLS and SASL.  TLS in Active
> Directory means you'll want to use 'ldaps' as the urlscheme (start_tls
> doesn't work yet, AFAIK).
> 
> I had no luck with sasl (only GSSAPI available in my case).  Although
> I can get a TGT with MIT's kinit from my Active Directory server (this
> is debian, I dunno how to get the TGT on a Micros~1 platform, but the
> MIT's Windows port of their client tools seems to have some support),
> there seems to be a bug related to packet sizes (either in AD or in
> openldap's libldap).  Maybe
> http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-devel/200211/msg00035.html
> could get you going.
> 
> 
> HTH,
> 
> andreas
> 
Hi!

I think I will not have to care about authentification in this code, 
because the script will run under user-context with domain-admin-rights.
Thanks for the code - I'll try to test it tomorrow.

:-)
Dirk


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sat Oct  9 23:06:15 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:06:15 -0400
Subject: Init a table of functions
In-Reply-To: <cka7q6$4u7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>
	<cka7q6$4u7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <4168A727.6050606@cloudthunder.com>

Robert Kern wrote:

> Paulo da Silva wrote:
>
>> How do I program something like the folowing program?
>> PYTHON claims it doesn't know about 'foo' when initializing K!
>> The only way I got this to work was doing the init of K in
>> the __init__ func. But this runs everytime for each object!
>> When using the name of the function without 'foo', I don't
>> know how to call it!
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>
>
> Move the table outside of the class definition
>
> class foo(object):
>     def f1():
>         print 'f1'
>     f1 = staticmethod(f1)
>
> foo.K = {'f1': foo.f1,
>         }
>
> foo.K['f1']()
>
Right Right Right. 

Notice how he added the "object" as an arg to class foo.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct  8 15:30:17 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 12:30:17 -0700
Subject: (solved)  smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <01ee01c4ad65$396ec780$ccbefea9@twilliams>
References: <00e701c4ad3f$b5e78390$ccbefea9@twilliams>
	<01ee01c4ad65$396ec780$ccbefea9@twilliams>
Message-ID: <20041008122130.EDA1.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> I decided to bite the bullet and have a look at the code for smtplib,
> (after being scared of changing it before),   and of course its what I
> should have done in the first place.

I hope you didn't change your own copy of smtplib, but just subclassed
it. Changing a standard module is a good way to get bitten in the ass,
especially during Python upgrades.

In regards to changing the standard library's smtplib permanently, you
may or may not find support.  A good way to find out is to post here
with the subject "proposed change to smtplib in standard library",
describe your changes, and if it has support, head to
sf.net/projects/python, list it as an RFE, and offer the code you have
written yourself.


 - Josiah

P.S. Did you get my post with the multi-threaded output?  You get the
entire stream of debug data for a particular smtp thread in a single
string.



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Oct 25 08:23:29 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:23:29 +0200
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-functi
	on o verloading.
References: <mailman.5417.1098704247.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clir81$5ka$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> It's interesting to note that you prefer code like: theProblem.title =
> "The Title"
> 
> However, I wonder if people coming from the Java/C++ world prefer:
> theProblem.title( "The Title" )
> 
> Obviously the first version is less typing! However, the second version
> might feel more natural to Java/C++ programmers.  Just an observation!
>

The reason java introduced the bean-convention with set*/get* methods (and
maybe has/is on boolean values) was to allow to introduce a property-like
concept in java - as its missed at syntactical level - with the assumption
beenig that a get/set paired name is an actual property. There are apis for
that, and e.g. gui-editors use it it create dialogs for configuring
controls.

So what you assume looking more natural and less awkward to java-people is
an akward convention introduced to circumvent missing language capabilities
- at least IMHO :)

C# OTH has properties built in, as well as VB - and the make code look
definitely nicer (apart from VBs ridiculous "let" statement and the general
pains of that language...)


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 18:44:06 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:44:06 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3064b51d.0410260928.1873a20d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gme4mk.1rlz70v1cswu9zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<beliavsky at aol.com> wrote:

> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message
news:<1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
>  
> > > No, no, I want the C speed.
> > 
> > Then use C: no other portable language (including C++ when properly
> > used) quite matches C's speed across the board.
> 
> I doubt this assertion -- Fortran is portable and is easier to
> optimize than C, in part because pointers are used less.

For numeric computing, yes.  "Across the board", no.  I've done almost
as much Fortran as C in my life... but while it was fully appropriate
back when I was in IBM Research doing (what at the time was called)
"supercomputing", when I moved to a small SW house doing CAD for
mechanical engineering, I soon determined that Fortran's limitations
were costing us a lot in both development time and runtime efficiency.

There's a reason Fortran use has been steadily declining, while C's
still number one despite the many languages that exist at its side or on
top of it: even in technical areas such as CAD, the fraction of code
that does strictly numeric computing is pretty small, overall.  If you
are blessed with superb Fortran coders and super Fortran compilers,
there may be a case for mixed C/Fortran programming, where some strictly
computational kernels are in Fortran while the rest of the programs'
various bottlenecks are in C.  Unfortunately, with the exception of a
few platforms and social niches, superb compilers _and_ coders for/in
Fortran are getting pretty hard to find, so this strategy can be hard to
defend in most cases.

"Strictly numeric computing" isn't even narrow enough.  I regularly do
(for my own private and personal research) huge unlimited-precision
computations with integers and rationals, which of course _IS_ "strictly
numeric" work, to the letter.  Yet _this_ strictly numeric work isn't
really in the field where Fortran enjoys any advantage, to the contrary.
The computational kernels are best coded in C and machine language, and
best coordinated/glued from Python.  When my code is spending 80% of its
time obsessively repeating a mere thousand or so lines of machine code,
it would be just silly to spend time and energy, and decrease
flexibility, by turning the few hundreds lines of Python that do all of
the algorithmic coordination into thousands of lines of any lower-level
language.


> Fortran 95 and Python with Numeric or Numarray are comparably high
> level languages, but Fortran has a performance edge of 2-100 in the

I disagree on the level -- Numeric reminds me much more of APL, which
was regularly used for exploratory numeric computing in IBM Research,
before the most promising approaches, needing to run on frightening
amounts of data, got recoded in Fortran (contradicting your assertion
that "good programmers don't want to recode": if they're good, they
_are_ in fact quite willing to, if and when top performance is needed in
some computational kernel).  Moreover, Python is definitely higher level
(than even APL used to be) for all the _non_-numeric needs that
scientific programs typically have nowadays, in addition to their
computational kernels.

If, for your range of problems and machines of interest, Numeric's
computational kernels are so inefficient compared to identical
computational kernels coded in Fortran, that's surely interesting -- and
part of the reason a couple toolkits exist to facilitate gluing Fortran
code to Python+Numeric programs (the other part, of course, is enabling
reuse of the great mass of excellent existing Fortran libraries - reuse
is good, and even if performance were identical with a recode, it would
be silly to recode rather than reuse solid, fast, field-tested codes).

That's part of Python's strength in numerical computing: neatest glue in
the world between existing or specially coded computational kernels, be
they in Fortran, C, C++, or machine language as in my (unlimited
precision rationals) case -- _plus_ all the exploratory flexibility one
may want, both in the classic numerical parts (via Numeric/numarray) and
in such tasks as database access, visualization, monitoring, checkpoint
and restart, and so forth.

> tests I have run (several posted to comp.lang.python). According to
> the Pyrex web site http://nz.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/
> the latest version is 0.9.3 -- this version number implies that Pyrex
> is not mature. Fortran 95 compilers are mature. Nowadays, applications

I've used pyrex for production work without any problems, but yes, once
Open Source authors decide their work is mature they typically tag it as
1.0.  However, not being subject to commercial pressures or deadlines,
they're typically in no hurry whatsoever to reach that milestone; you
should really read Eric Raymond's penetrating analysis of that fact in
his excellent book "The Art of Unix Programming" (also available for
free online reading).

> where performance is critical are often run on Linux clusters (often
> of AMD Opteron processors), and Fortran compiler vendors are
> supporting these platforms. Are Pyrex and other Python projects being
> customized in this way?

I'm not sure what (if anything) is being done with Pyrex in the area of
cluster computing, but there are quite a few other Python projects
there, such as Pycluster.  I don't know much about them, since I don't
have a cluster at hand to try them on -- but you can sure find others
here who do, if you post with more appropriate subjects to catch their
attention.


> > If you don't need portability, C's speed isn't optimal anyway; psyco (a
> > just-in-time optimizer for Python) can sometimes beat C by going
> > directly to machine language (but it only works for intel and compatible
> > CPUs, not for example for the PowerPC chips used in Apple's Mac
> > computers -- that is the downside, of course).
> 
> There are optimizing Fortran 95 compilers for Intel Windows, Intel
> Linux, AMD Opteron on Linux, PowerPC etc., listed at
> http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Fortran/Compilers/
> . You are conceding that Python is less portable if you demand
> performance.

No, I'm not: where the (expletive deleted) do you read that?!  All I'm
saying is that _psyco_ currently targets only Intel and compatible CPUs,
so those are the ones where you can get psyco's own sometimes-beats-C
performance, for now.  Throughout my post, up to here, I was speaking
about _portable performance *across the board*_ (where, generally, C yet
can't be beaten -- although I _have_ seen some claims to the contrary by
fans of Common Lisp and O'Caml, at least for some cases).  Here, I'm
explaining that, if and when you do not need portability, then there may
well be even faster alternatives to C (still "across the board" in terms
of application areas, but not necessarily of platforms).

> There is even a free, fast compiler called G95 for these
> platforms -- see http://www.g95.org .

Are you claiming this is _MATURE_ while pyrex isn't?  Literally
speaking, you are, since you earlier stated, baldly and without any
qualification, that "Fortran 95 compilers are mature", and here you
appear to be implying that G95 is a Fortran 95 compiler -- so, the
sillogism is compelling.

Well, I've visited that huge, rambling homepage - and couldn't find a
release number nor a pointer to the sources.  I did easily find a kind
of blog with all sorts of interesting news, such as (less than a month
ago) the wrong sources getting compiled and causing confusion, etc; if
these are signs of a mature project, we must be using a very different
definition of the word "mature".  And a list of binaries, of which zero
(count'em, zero) are listed for any PPC CPU -- there is a claim later
that the program works on G4 (a PPC CPU, though 32-bit; for power
computing, one would typically be using G5, the newer 64-bit one, these
days; Apple is even putting it in cheap home/consumer computers, and
Virginia's supercomputer, one of the world's most powerful ones it
seems, uses G5 PPC CPU's, too), but I couldn't find any useful link.

Don't get me wrong: I'm overjoyed if open source is reaching good
results in the world of Fortran compilers, at last (the g77 free Fortran
compiler, way back when, was surely anything but a speed demon!-).  But
I think it's dishonest to claim or imply "maturity" for this project
while asserting pyrex is "not mature".  Do you really believe that not
having a release number, or hiding it well, enhances a project's
maturity?  I don't see how you could state this in good faith.


Alex


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct 30 10:03:49 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:03:49 +0200
Subject: Plugin system
In-Reply-To: <41839c8b$0$78279$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <2uhjppF2a61u6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41839c8b$0$78279$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <2uhla5F2ahviqU2@uni-berlin.de>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> 
>> How would you implement a plugin system (for a web-based application)?
> 
> This is so general a question that I cannot think of anything concrete to answer.
> Please ask again, with more detail about what you want/need/have in mind.

Okay, the question is too open: My focus is on how you would structure
the plugin code (directories, files) and how you would write code to
load these plugins.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From rakis at gmpexpress.net  Mon Oct  4 22:16:36 2004
From: rakis at gmpexpress.net (Tom Cocagne)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:16:36 -0400
Subject: Embedding Python
References: <4audnXFO7feC3MPcRVn-vg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <10m417q6j9hosef@corp.supernews.com>

 I've?recently?been?working?with?both?extending?and?embedding?Python?and
have been wondering about some similar issues. Something that just recently
occurred to me is that you might be able to use Python's Global Interpreter
Lock to implement a fairly simple multi-threaded lock-step solution.
Consider the following:

1. Your program starts up, Initializes the Python interpreter, and acquires
the GIL (Global Interpreter Lock).

2. The program then creates a new thread to run the Python scripts. In
theory, this thread will immediately block in an attempt to acquire the GIL

3. In your main GUI loop, you set a periodic timer that expires at a rate of
say.... 20 Hz (this would likely need tuning) that, upon expiry, uses the
following pseudo-code:
?global_interpreter_lock.unlock()
?#?Give?Python?approximately?20?msec?of?execution?time
?main_application_thread.sleep(20?milliseconds)
?global_interpreter_lock.lock()
?....?continue?normal?QT?processing?.....

I haven't put a whole lot of thought into it yet but on the surface it seems
like an approach along these lines would be fairly easy to implement and
should guarantee that only 1 thread is ever accessing your application.

Using this approach would involve at least three tuneable parameters. The
GUI timer to indicate how often Python should be given some CPU time, the
delay to determine how long the Python interpreter should be allowed to
run, and byte-code check interval Python uses to release the GIL (described
in the C-API documentation on Python+threads). Getting all these right
might take some time.

??Again,?I?have?never?actually?tried?this?so?there?could?be?some?demons
lurking in the shadows. Anyone see problems with this approach?

?Cheers,

?Tom


Martin wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> I am new to python and wish to embed python in an 3D graphics
> application to provide application automation. The high level goal is to
> be able to drive my app from a script for batch job like behavior rather
> than via the GUI (ie. I would like to run a script and see those changes
> reflected in the GUI as if the user had clicked buttons, etc.) The
> application is written in C++ and uses QT for the GUI.
> 
> I have read the python docs on python.org and (using SWIG) have been
> able to create Python shadow wrappers around the C++ classes I want to
> allow users to have been able to call them via python scripts. This part
> works well. However in terms of embedding, I feel like I am missing
> something.
> 
> For those of you familiar with QT, you know that QT apps run in a
> single-thread (essentially). Although QT supports threads, a
> QApplication based program is (by default) single-threaded. Callbacks
> (slots in QT speak) can be hooked up based on a users actions, but these
> callbacks all run in the main program thread.
> 
> So here is my question ... What's the best way to integrate Python into
> an app such as the one I am describing.
> 
> Here's what I have though of ...
> 
> Alternative #1
> Add boiler plate python embedding code (ie. Py_Initialize,
> PyRun_SimpleFile(...), Py_Finalize) in a QT callback. Unfortunately,
> since the QT app is single threaded, this will wedge up the GUI, until
> the script is done. Not good.
> 
> Alternative #2
> Keep the app as a single threaded app and interpret the script piece
> meal (ie. one statement at a time) at some timed interval. Allow for GUI
> updating between statement interpreting. Unfortunately, groveling over
> the Python C API, this does not look particularly easy either and would
> more or less require cutting/pasting much of the interpreter guts in my
> app. Furthermore, incomplete statements (ie. lines ending in : ) seem to
> present a problem to PyRun_SimpleString.
> 
> Alternative #3
> Split the app up so that it is broken up into 2 threads (GUI and guts).
> The interpreter would run in the gut thread and change the internal data
> store. The GUI would then have to be smart enough to update itselft.
> Unfortunately, this requires major app re-architecting (something I am
> trying to avoid).
> 
> Alternative #4
> Spawn an interpreter thread using multi-threaded interpreter calls. This
> would then require locking/unlocking shared resources between
> Interpreter thread and the rest of the app. It feels like if I am going
> to do this #3 may be a cleaner approach.
> 
> I am sure someone out there has done this before.
> 
> For me, the key point is that I want to add this functionality without
> disrupting the entire product. I am trying to evaluate what is
> architecturally the best approach and what will give me the most bang
> for my buck.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Cheers and Thanks,
> 
> Martin



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 17:54:56 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:54:56 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <20041005132902.ECE3.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162F271.9060407@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005132902.ECE3.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <41631830.2000401@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>Ahh, but here's the rub; I posted responses to your questions that were,
>on the most part, helpful.  Had I broken the law in my post (a
>surprisingly easy thing to do in the states), knowing that I was who I
>claimed to be would be particularly useful.
>  
>
How might you break the law and how might I be interested in such 
law-breaking?

>In this case, you are making the claim to not use this information as
>part of a homework assignment, which while not being illegal, is
>generally understood to be amoral, according to academic practices in
>most parts of the world.
>  
>
Indeed, I don't remember myself ever cheating (in the suggested manner 
or otherwise) , though I did write people's philosophy papers for them 
(for money).

>You have managed to be quite reasonable and calm through the entire
>thread, but you seemed to have missed much of the sarcasm in "Mark
>English's" post.
>
>
>  
>
Mark English was helpful as well.  I enjoyed his sarcasm but chose to 
discard (or otherwise ignore) it in my reply.

> <SNIP>
>
>Ahh the devil, if one chooses to believe in them, I am surely not.
>Mailing list Don...not even close.  I'm just a guy who can prove who he
>is.  And at least for some places on the internet, that can matter.
>
>  
>
I merely meant that you appeared to be playing one, not that I (or you) 
believe they exist.  But in order for us to talk of them (and their 
existence/non-existence) we must have a pre-existing notion(s) of what 
one is.  Indeed, this is what I referring to, the *notion* of a devil.

I found great humor in your reply.  Indeed, your replies were helpful.  
What might you do illegal of which I might want to discover your true 
identity?  If you begin cursing and saying fouls things, I would merely 
leave the mailing-list/newsgroup or hope that the admin would kill-file 
you.  No need for legal action. 

As I haven't concocted anymore lists of questions, people can redirect 
their attention elsewhere.  That is unless people enjoy this discourse. 


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Oct 13 02:59:28 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 09:59:28 +0300
Subject: Static typing in py [was Re: Some notes]
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du71xg314tr.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Josiah" == Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:

    >> - The optional static typing seems a quite nice thing (for
    >> compilers too, they can produce faster code. It can probably
    >> allow faster and smaller arrays, like those of numarray).

    Josiah> Asking for static typing in Python is a pretty big
    Josiah> request.  It seems from those responses to similar
    Josiah> questions, the answer is simply "static typing isn't
    Josiah> coming to CPython any time soon, probably not even for
    Josiah> Py3k".

Guido has repeatedly expressed that Python will probably get optional
type declarations in the future. I am not sure to what extent that
implies static typing, but it's definitely on the map.

Boo already has type declarations, and I imagine the CLR
implementations of python (IronPython, Boo) will benefit most from
type declarations, performancewise. The benefit to CPython might be
more indirect, simplifying the work done by things like Psycho. Still,
I see type declarations opening so many doors that they should be in
the language - even if the performance improvement is zero at the
first stage. Python is not just CPython these days.

    Josiah> Keep wishing, but unless you implement it, I wouldn't get
    Josiah> my hopes up.

Implementation can be trivial - the interpreter could just assert
isinstance when check_type_declarations is true. The harder part is
coming up with all the semantics.


-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From yaipa at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 00:51:48 2004
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 21:51:48 -0700
Subject: literal hex value to bin file.
References: <6e07b825.0410070125.5b3e47a3@posting.google.com>
	<DaKdnbopTNVBvfjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0410072051.5504e4f2@posting.google.com>

Peter L Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<DaKdnbopTNVBvfjcRVn-jQ at powergate.ca>...
> yaipa h. wrote:
> > Sorry if this has been asked before, doing a search on c.l.p, I didn't
> > find this particular use case.
> > 
> > I wish to use the struct module, in windows, to pack hexdigits in such
> > a way that when I pack, say 0xa into a packed object, I can then use
> > it to find 0xa in a binary file.
> 
> The question is unclear to me, but wouldn't just using "\x0a"
> build a string (i.e. a 'byte sequence') with identical contents?
> A "packed object" from struct is merely a string.
> 
> > Likewise, I wish to build a hex sequence from an Assembly language
> > .lst (text)file so that I can search for that sequence of hex digits
> > in a binary file.
> 
> Unclear.  Please provide examples of before and after cases
> of each thing mentioned above to help guide us...
> 
> -Peter

Peter,

    Thanks.

I seemed to have worked it out.  The bit of code below will write the
actual
hex string literal to a binary file as is.  What I kept getting was
the hexascii representation of the hex string, so that '9' would write
to file as 0x39 and 'a' would write to the file as 0x61. What I wanted
was '9' to write to the file as 0x09 and '7f' to write out as 0x7f.

#-----------------------------------------------
import struct

a = struct.pack('B', int('ff', 16))

fh = open("a.hex", "wb")
fh.write(a)
fh.close()
#-----------------------------------------------
# results in the binary file 'a.hex' containing,
0xff  # only

Peter, thanks again for your attempt to understand my confusion.

Cheers,

  --Alan


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sun Oct 31 22:19:17 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:19:17 -0500
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...
 python on ?)
In-Reply-To: <sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
	<sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <4185AB35.6050103@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
>
> To the OP: there are several Python "application frameworks"
> which on the surface appear to be similar in goal to Rails.
> I don't know much about them, and at the moment even their
> names aren't coming to me, so I can't help more than that.
> I think a search for "enterprise application framework Python"
> would probably turn up at least one of them.
>
> -Peter

Do you mean Zope?


From spariam at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  9 18:44:34 2004
From: spariam at hotmail.com (spar)
Date: 9 Oct 2004 15:44:34 -0700
Subject: complex data structure - insert value
Message-ID: <e7fe8d9e.0410091444.211313b5@posting.google.com>

I'm converting a Perl script to Python and have run into something I'm
not sure how to do in Python.

In Perl, I am running through a couple loops and inserting values
directly into a complex data structure (array->hash->array). This
isn't the actual code, but should demonstrate the general idea:

foreach $bar_count(@bars) {
  foreach $el_count(@els) {
    $var = somefunc($bar_count,$el_count);
    $data[$bar_count]->{'CC'}->[$el_count] = $var;
  }
}

Basically I'd like to do the same thing in Python. I've written a
convoluted test script where I can print an element:

print data[0]['CC'][1]

but I can't insert directly like I do in Perl (data[0]['CC'][1] =
$var). In my test script I've simply initialized my lists and
dictionary at the beginning of the script, not by iterating an
inserting values as in the Perl example.

Any advice appreciated...thanks.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 26 14:56:58 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:56:58 -0400
Subject: Language comparison site - Python ranks #8 on the A-list
In-Reply-To: <Mtwfd.1138$EI6.392@fe2.texas.rr.com>
References: <Mtwfd.1138$EI6.392@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <e96dnS2wsIZkAOPcRVn-2w@powergate.ca>

Paul McGuire wrote:
> I just tripped over this site (http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm), and google
> shows that there has only been a brief mention of it on c.l.py in the Aug 12
> Dr. Dobb's Python-URL post, so I thought I'd pass it along for those looking
> for some quasi-quantitative Python advocacy data.
> 
> It's also interesting to look at the comparitive trend chart lower down on
> the page.  But my question is, what the heck happened in March '04?
> (Several languages showed drastic swings of several percentage points up or
> down - I suspect that this actually reflects some artifact of the data
> sampling process, perhaps a software change at Google/Yahoo that would alter
> their search outputs, which are inputs to this algorithm, which is why I
> call it "quasi-quantitative.")

Interesting reading from years past: 
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Acomp.lang.python+www.tiobe.com

(Perusing those threads again to reminisce, I discovered that the
site has variously claimed Python was an A++ language, and a
"B status language with declining popularity".)

I remain to be convinced the ranking has any more meaning than
as a marketing tool to attract people to the their site so
they can sell more services.  (Not that this is a bad thing,
for them anyway.)

-Peter


From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 16 19:46:02 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:46:02 GMT
Subject: interactive piano
Message-ID: <_oicd.7316$SZ5.2486@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Does anybody know of any projects relating to an interactive piano. And when 
I say that, I mean you can click on a particular note or press keys on the 
computer keyboard and hear the note(s) being played.

TIA,
Lucas 




From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Wed Oct 13 13:22:14 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 10:22:14 -0700
Subject: windows
References: <mailman.4811.1097649067.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <21064255.0410130922.40e59cb@posting.google.com>

Ajay <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.4811.1097649067.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> hi!
> 
> i have two tkinter windows on top of each other. i would like it so that
> the user has to complete the fields in the top windows before they can
> interact with the window below it. that is, i dont want the user to close
> the top window or minimize it or send it into the background.
> 
> how would i do it?
> 
> thanks
> 
> cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

There are documentations which say that Tkinter.Toplevel has
a methode .transient(root) which should make the Toplevel window
transient to its root window.
But I never managed to make it work.(W2K Python 2.2.2).
But here is a hackaround:

import Tkinter

#----------------------
def deiconify(widget):
#----------------------
  widget.deiconify()
  widget.grab_set()

#----------------------
def withdraw(widget):
#----------------------
  widget.grab_release()
  widget.withdraw()

# The root window
root=Tkinter.Tk()

# The Toplevel window
tl=Tkinter.Toplevel(root,width=400,height=200,bg='white')

# Withdraw Toplevel, when destroyed
tl.protocol("WM_DELETE_WINDOW",lambda w=tl:withdraw(w))

# Make Toplevel not resizable
tl.resizable(width=False,height=False)

# Default state of Toplevel is withdrawn
tl.withdraw()

# Give Toplevel window a title
tl.title('Toplevel-Window')

# A Button on the root window to make Toplevel window visible
Tkinter.Button(root,text='Toplevel on',command=lambda w=tl:deiconify(w)).pack()

# Start mainloop
root.mainloop()

Regards
Peter


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Oct 11 21:41:41 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:41:41 -0700
Subject: Alternatives for pickle?
In-Reply-To: <slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <10mmddorhvnj71f@corp.supernews.com>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

>I also thought about writing out a string that, when read
>back in and fed to eval would recreate the structure. But
>that seems to be just as insecure if not more so.
>  
>

As I understand it, this is *exactly* what pickle already does.

>So how do you serialize data in python, when you want
>a somewhat secure mechanisme. Preferably where a user
>can make a puzzle file by hand in a text editor.
>  
>

I'd agree with the earlier comment -- define your own file format, and 
write code to parse that format and instantiate the necessary objects.  
If it's hard to define something that's both effective for your 
purposes, and hard to hand-code in a text editor, then consider writing 
a puzzle-editor app that will allow GUI creation of puzzles which can be 
saved in your custom file format.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From kkuppa at xora.com  Wed Oct  6 05:38:52 2004
From: kkuppa at xora.com (Kiran Kumar)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:08:52 +0530
Subject: Java to Python byte code
Message-ID: <AJEGLHNCFFFNFIPAOCPLOENPCBAA.kkuppa@xora.com>

Hello All,

I am just curious to know if there is any tool which would let me
cross compile java source code to python byte codes directly.

I have developed a library [in Java ] for statistcs and machine 
learning. Some of them are computationally demanding. My
line of thinking is , if I could get to compile java source to 
python byte code , it would be more faster than interfacing
with Jython.

Any comments would be helpful

Thanks,

Kiran Kumar
---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Thu Oct  7 17:52:34 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 21:52:34 GMT
Subject: Job postings
References: <41634A6E.D0A49DCD@yahoo.com> <7xpt3wtvci.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<41644F87.6F87F2D0@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2sls51F1mpkjbU1@uni-berlin.de>

Jive Dadson <jdadson at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Paul Rubin wrote:
> > 
> > Jive Dadson <jdadson at yahoo.com> writes:
> > > Where can I post a job description for a Python programmer?  He or she
> > > would have to know both application programming in Python, and should be
> > > able to port Python to a "friendly" operating system.
> > 
> > I think you just posted one.  What's the target OS?  Where's the job?
> 
> The company is in San Jose, CA.  The OS is a OnTime RTOS-32.

The first is gcc, glibc, bison, make, sh, and other things needed for
compile.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada


From mediocre_person at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 16 19:14:26 2004
From: mediocre_person at hotmail.com (Mediocre Person)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:14:26 -0500
Subject: Python control of desktop properties
In-Reply-To: <416c8404$1_3@alt.athenanews.com>
References: <416c8404$1_3@alt.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <4171aa7a_3@alt.athenanews.com>

Mediocre Person wrote:

> 
> One of my students is interested in using Python to control his 
> (Windows) desktop, and wants to write a program to change the desktop 
> background or wallpaper. I told him I'd look into this, but I've had to 
> admit defeat.
> 

Thank to all for the replies--got the code working now.

Nick.



From fakeaddress at nowhere.org  Thu Oct  7 23:34:22 2004
From: fakeaddress at nowhere.org (Bryan Olson)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 03:34:22 GMT
Subject: Simple Python web proxy stalls for some web sites
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4499.1097155423.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <41649d0e@post.usenet.com>
	<mailman.4499.1097155423.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1Vn9d.25933$QJ3.12295@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Richie Hindle wrote:
 > By default, urllib2 specifies "User-Agent: Python-urllib/x.y"  Some
 > sites, Google included, reject this because they don't like to be
 > web-scraped.

Google dis' Python?  No way!

I checked, and Google is answering in good faith.  Some web
sites block unknown user-agents, but only the most evil would
hang the connection.  Google doesn't even block wget.


--
--Bryan

Full disclosure: I used to work for Google.  I don't now, and
never did have any authority to speak for them.


From aisaac at american.edu  Mon Oct 25 12:15:00 2004
From: aisaac at american.edu (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:15:00 -0400
Subject: Pythonic function composition
References: <10nq3c4j3lst8e2@corp.supernews.com>
	<2u4k8aF269be0U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <10nq9iaj6e74565@corp.supernews.com>

"Oliver Fromme" <olli at haluter.fromme.com> wrote in message
news:2u4k8aF269be0U1 at uni-berlin.de...
> There's no need to juggle with lambda in this case.
> Lambda has its uses, but this isn't one of them.

I kind of like the lambda version (see Peter's post).
But maybe it is more opaque.

Thanks,
Alan




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Fri Oct  8 19:49:12 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 09:49:12 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Can't get curses to work in python
In-Reply-To: <200410080848.15470.scott_list@mischko.com>
References: <200410080848.15470.scott_list@mischko.com>
Message-ID: <20041009094729.W36393@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Scott Chapman wrote:

> I can't figure out how to get curses (ncurses) enabled in Python.  I have
> ncurses and ncurses-devel rpm's installed on my system (Suse 9.1) but I can't
> figure out how to get it enabled when I compile Python.

Check, & if necessary change, the library and included path values for the
curses module in the setup.py script in the root of the Python source
tree.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen ACT 2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia


From usenet.0.lho at spamgourmet.com  Fri Oct 29 02:27:36 2004
From: usenet.0.lho at spamgourmet.com (Joachim Bowman)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:27:36 +0200
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <N9GdnbEBX4-F1B3cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA@rogers.com>
	<6f402501.0410271123.5a7e68d9@posting.google.com>
	<N9GdnbEBX4-F1B3cRVn-rw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <2ue65gF28i9f7U1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

Dan Perl wrote:
> "Michael Foord" <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:6f402501.0410271123.5a7e68d9 at posting.google.com...
>>A lot of people use python as part of their job and are active
>>participants in teh python community. A lot of what I write are
>>library modules to do a particular job. Using the GPL means someone is
>>unable to use your work in a business setting. i don't expect other
>>people to sell products containing my work - but neither do I want to
>>prevent them from being able to use it.
> 
> Fair enough.  LGPL, X, or BSD should allow you to do that.

So does the GNU GPL.  Freedom/Open Source and commercial use are two 
orthogonal concepts.  The two don't interfere in any way.

You can have Free Software (under the GPL) that is used and distributed 
commercially, Free Software that is used and distributed in a non 
commercial way (Python), proprietary software that is used and 
distributed commercially (think about MS Word), and proprietary software 
that is used and distributed free of charge and without a commercial 
background (sometimes called freeware).

J


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 19:18:02 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:18:02 +0200
Subject: Interface of the set classes
References: <41824654$0$1779$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<1gmfcnn.1kc0foj1j6zq3hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4182518e$0$5916$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<1gmfg7o.a3ycdbrc571eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41826d85$0$17459$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1gmfzoq.99sjae1sgqm5pN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> wrote:
   ...
> > So, you cannot "switch freely" -- there are constraints.
> 
> Right ... but take hash_set and you have exactly the same kind of "set".
> In my case, I already had the '<' operator ... so it wasn't a problem.
> Then, you'll argue that you need to be hashable. True, but as I said (I
> don't mean here I was clear about that :o) ), the choice of the 
> container usually depend on the data set.

Sure.

> > call it S.  You can write V[3], but you can't write S[3], for example.
> > Here, too, your assertion that "you can switch freely" is utterly
> > baffling.
> 
> Yes, that's why I needed __getitem__ only because some things cannot be
> done (in Python 2.3) without.

Such as...?  'tee' is only needed if you need to "move forward a bit" on
one branch and then _backtrack_ to a previous snapshot, or the like.  If
all you're doing is suspend an iteration and then resume it, say:

iter1 = iter(container1)
iter2 = iter(container2)

print 'here is the part of ct 1 up to the first FOO if any'
for item1 in iter1:
    print item1
    if item1 == 'FOO': break
else:
    print 'Ah well, no FOO!-('

print 'and here is the part of ct 2 up to the first BAR if any'
for item2 in iter2:
    print item2
    if item2 == 'BAR': break
else:
    print 'Sigh, no BAR!-('

if item1=='FOO':
    print 'And here is the rest of ct1'
    for item1 in iter1: print item1

if item2=='BAR':
    print 'And here is the rest of ct2'
    for item2 in iter2: print item2

IOW, as long as you only need forward iteration (w/o
snapshot/backtrack), you're in clover.


If you do need to "snapshot and backtrack", in the _general_ case you're
best off snapshotting into a list anyway - tee, in general, can't do
better than that (until and unless the PEP on copyable iterators lets
suitable iterator objects cooperate more deeply with tee...).  So
"cannot be done" is a definite overbid -- you may just be spending a
little more time or memory than you'd like, worst case.


> > It's not: neither in Python nor in C++ can you switch freely.
> 
> True, but in part ^_^ In C++, you can easyly design algorithm working
> with whatever sequence you have. But for that you'll have to use 
> templates, iterators, probably tags, and on. But it's possible ... I 
> don't see a way to do it in Python ... and that's my whole point.

Python has iterators, and doesn't need templates, since signature based
polymorphism is intrinsic.  Python only has forward iterators (actually
only _input_ iterators, since you can never alter the underlying
container directly through an iterator) so what would it do w/tags?

If your complaint is that Python needs more categories of iterators,
please express your complaint in these terms -- rather than in unrelated
terms criticizing the design of container types, a cri de coeur that's
actually quite unrelated to the complaint.

I used to wish for 'snapshottable'/'restartable' iterators, but 'tee'
basically gives me the equivalent (though I'd still dearly love to know
that all suitable iterators _cooperate optimally_ with 'tee', that, at
least for builtin ones, is just a matter of implementation -- exposing
it as _design_ is ``just'' an issue of letting *user-coded* iterators
cooperate with 'tee' just as fully, if and when feasible).

I still do wish (somewhat) for some architecture for output iterators,
and (more) for one for forward iterators.  (I would imagine that, if we
had forward iterators, an output iterator would just be a forward
iterator that doesn't return anything useful upon .next() and doesn't
raise StopIteration -- just offers something like a .set(newval) method,
or whatever a forward iterator would offer for that purpose).

Funny enough, not once since C++ stopped being my main programming
language have I found myself wishing for any other category of iterator
in any other language.  Perhaps just because the kind of container that
naturally can support a forward-backward iterator isn't common anyway,
and a random-access iterator basically means indexing -- and then I'd
rather use indexing (and slicing...).

> Yes, but use insert_iterator and you can insert with both vector and set
> with the same syntax ... even if, obviously, the position you gave for
> set will be ignored. So :
> 
>    inserter(result, result.end()) = 3;
> 
> will insert 3 into result, at the end if result is "ordered" (as the 
> list in python), or where it has to be for "sorted" or "unordered" 
> containers. Genericity in C++ comes from template functions most of the
> time.

Again, this basically seems to me to be a wish for more categories of
iterator.  The key reason this cannot be done directly in Python is that
there is no output iterator concept.

Of course, it's not rocket science to 'roll your own' in Python (in
Python style, of course).  The equivalent of "specializing a template"
requires some kind of typetesting or featuretesting; and we don't have a
"just past the end" ``bookmark'' to use, so, for example, the insert
method of a list can never be used to mean 'append' (sigh).  So, we
probably need name distinctions between insert_at_end and
insert_before_position -- I don't think anybody will ever convince GvR
that the latter should accept and ignore a position argument, btw.  But
at least insert_at_end should be uncontroversial:

def insert_at_end(container):
    try: return container.append
    except AttributeError: pass
    try: return container.add
    except AttributeError: pass
    try: update = container.update
    except AttributeError: pass
    else: return lambda xy: update((xy,))

    raise TypeError, "can't insert-at-end in %s' % type(container)

and then of course the equivalent of your snippet above is

   insert_at_end(result)(3)

[[ You'll never manage to get 'assign to a function call' into Python,
   but the syntax sugar of a call is pretty reasonable here anyhoo. ]]

Of course, if result is a dict this will fail (you'd need a 2-item
tuple, or something that can pass for it in a dim light, as the
argument), just like your C++ snippet will fail if result is a std::map
(you'd need an std::pair as the RHS) -- though C++ will fail at compile
time, and Python at runtime, as usual.


> > Not when the semantics are too different, as in the case of S and V.
> 
> Ok, that's something I don't agree ... for me there is a common semantic
> between S and V which is "storing values in a linear container". After
> that, you can put the properties you need in that container, but if I
> need to write an algorithm whose only assumption is "a linear container"
> I want to be able to use whatever linear container I have ... and I 
> don't want to reimplement it for each.

So write that insert_at_end function -- it IS pretty simple, after all.
Put it in your myneatutils.py module and import it everywhere.  Or put
it into a module that you call std.py instead, so the parallel with C++
will be even clearer -- std::inserter vs std.insert_at_end, etc.

Faking that you can insert at any point for a container in which you
CAN'T is extremely dubious, btw.  Even the _at_end part of the name of
the function I suggest may be going overboard.  After all, any algorithm
that depends on the common semantics between S and V had better NOT
believe anything it inserts does go 'at end', so maybe a name such as
'insert_wherever_it_is_most_convenient_for_you' might be better
(although a little bit verbose).


> > Well, you surely didn't get operator[] on C++'s std::set<...>s, that's
> > for sure...
> 
> Well, no ... but it's not needed ^_^ And if I really need it you have
> the "advance" template function that do the __getitem__ stuff in the 
> most efficient way, whatever your _linear_ container is.

Again, that's obviously trivial to write for Python, since Python
doesn't have random access iterators, so the most efficient way for any
container c to get an iterator starting at its 5th item will be to start
with iter(c) and step forward 5 times (with itertools.islice)...;-)
(Well, with a list you could slice -- if you never needed to write into
the original list, which, as I mentioned, Python has no iterator kind
for doing, anyway; if you want to prefer this solution, try/except is
just friend -- feature-testing, basically).

Again, a reasonable complaint (if you can convince Raymond Hettinger,
basically) is that itertools.islice should be able to cooperate
specially with some privileged iterators (builtin ones only, or more
ambitiously, user-coded ones too), like itertools.tee should, again by
feature-testing.  Essentially an implementation issue as long as you
stick to builtins, becomes a design one if you want usercoded ones too.


> So I hope I made my point clearer this time ^_^ I used Python for a bit

Sure!  If you had whined about the povery of kinds of iterators that
Python supplies, rather than (as per subject) about the interface of the
set classes, it would have been quite clear from the start.


> lists, sets and dictionnary. And I don't really see any other way to do
> that (but to add methods to the sets ... and I don't want to do so).

No need: the Python equivalent of C++'s specializing of templates (just
like that of C++'s overloading) is feature-testing (or type-testing, but
generally that's _not_ warranted -- feature-testing allows user-coded
types to cooperate just as well!).  So, the above-exemplified function
is the Python equivalent of a C++ template function with
specializations.  Of course Python does more at runtime that C++ does at
compiletime -- but that applies in several other ways, anyhow;-).


> Ok, so how do you write an algorithm on a container without specifying
> which, knowing that you cannot use the iterators, neither the signature
> of the class, nor the derivation ?

You encapsulate the feature-testing (looking for suitable methods to
either return directly, or wrap in inner functions -- not necessarily
lambdas, an inner 'def' will often be preferable -- to return) into
functions, once -- equivalent to a C++ template functions
w/specializations.  Then you write your algorithms in terms of those
functions, just like, in C++, you'd write them in terms of template
functions (either coded by yourself, or taken from some library coded by
others, such as the excellent Boost people).

> That was all the methods I imagined for Python's genericity. But none of
> them work when you see the base containers.

"The signature of the class" (or, rather, some specific methods thereof)
is really all you need.  But it's best to push that detail into a
function, as above.  Should you ever need to optimize away the process
for some given types, it's easy, too:

at_end_inserters_by_type = {
    list: list.append,
    collections.deque: collections.deque.append,
    set: set.add,
}
def insert_at_end(container):
    m = at_end_inserters_by_type.get(type(container))
    if m is not None: return m.__get__(container)
    ...same as before...

Note that I have kept the helper dictionary exposed so it's easy to add
optimized customizations, just as in C++ it's easy to add template
specializations.  Not just for user-coded types, but also for existing
ones which this particular utility module isn't optimizing for, e.g.:

import std
import array
std.at_end_inserters_by_type[array.array] = array.array.append

and the like (assuming std.py is the module where we have insert_at_end
and its supporting optimizations-helper-dictionary).

If you have several such functions needing helper dictionaries, you may
make a dictionary of dictionaries, keyed first by the function, and
maybe expose a helper function to register optimization-specializations
for a given function, rather than let user-level code deal with directly
indexing dictionaries.  Then the above specialization might become:

std.specialize(insert_at_end, array.array, array.array.append)

As long as, after checking the specializations, the function continues
with feature-testing as before, the specializations may only be needed
for performance, or for existing types (maybe from some library) that
supply the needed functionality but need interface adaptation, basically
like in C++.


Alex


From cce at clarkevans.com  Wed Oct 13 14:43:33 2004
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:43:33 -0400
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <10mqr0rlj9h6r69@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mo6q66oi0kj04@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmplmh.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mqr0rlj9h6r69@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041013184333.GB47197@prometheusresearch.com>

On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:58:14AM -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
| Antoon Pardon wrote:
| >I find it better to let the coder decide what makes sense in his program
| >and what not.
| 
| Which is the Perl philosophy.  Many people seem quite happy with Perl 
| because of this TMTOWTDI attitude; personally, I prefer Python's clarity 
| and simplicity.

On this list, that's damn near close to an ad hominem attack.

There are more than one way to do many of things in Python, and just
about every "feature" that gets added is yet another way to do
something that is already being done.   This doesn't stop features
from being adopted, does it?  Every list comprehension has an
equivalent version using a while-loop.  I could go on with examples,
but your assertion is a leaky bucket, so why bother waste the space?
Your arguments thus far have been "I don't use it, thus it probably
isn't useful, and therefore, no one should be able to use it."  It's
an uninformed position and frankly, not very helpful.  

I use lambda because it:

  - puts the definition of an expression right
    where it is used;

  - doesn't require me to mint a name, or worry about
    other possible calls to the same expression; and

  - is efficient use of vertical coding space.

All of these reasons provide clarity in maintaining code.  If you
are working with a programming style that uses CPS, deferred
execution, or similar mechanism with heavy callbacks or passing
functions, you will understand the importance of the above features.

Kind Regards,

Clark


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Oct 12 21:24:33 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:24:33 -0400
Subject: Ok, I'm quite new to Python
References: <ckhrcs$g92$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <cki04e$esi$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Michael" <slick_mick_00 at hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:ckhrcs$g92$1 at hercules.btinternet.com...
> But i'm a good c++ programmer.
>
> What i want to do is parse a text file and store the information in 
> relevant
> fields:

A more useful-to-the-reader and possibly more fruitful-to-you subject line 
would have been something like 'Need help parsing text files'.

tjr





From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 31 01:48:17 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 05:48:17 GMT
Subject: Python-list Info Page
References: <mailman.5724.1099194225.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418467cb.1220411769@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:43:40 -0400, Gary Robinson <grobinson at transpose.com> wrote:

>I am trying to understand a couple of nuances of inheriting from the 
>tuple type.
>
>The following class definition works nicely:
>
It may appear to, but it's not doing what I think you think it is ;-)

>class Test(tuple):
>    def __init__(self, tup):
>        self.x = 5
>        self = tup
The above is just rebinding the local name 'self', which _was_ bound to
your instance (which gave you the access to make self.x = 5 work), but
as soon as __init__ exits, that last self binding is gone.

>a = Test((1,2))
>print a, a.x
>
>The result of that print is "(1, 2), 5". 
Yes, the (1,2) that you passed to Test, got passed on to tuple.__new__, because
there was no Test.__new__, and so the normal tuple creation took place. Then __init__
got called.

>
>But the following version:
>
>class Test(tuple):
>    def __init__(self, tup):
>        self = tup
>        self.x = 5
>a = Test((1,2))
>
That's because you changed the self binding to whatever was passed in as tup
(a real python tuple (1,2), not an instance of your subclass)
and you effectively tried to hang an attibute x onto a native tuple, like:

 >>> self = (1, 2)
 >>> self.x = 5
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'x'


>blows up in Python 2.3, complaining that attribute x doesn't exist.
>
>I'm not clear on why one works and not the other, or whether there's a 
Neither one worked ;-)

>better syntax for assigning an attribute to a tuple subclass in the 
>__init__() method.
>
>Anyone have any  thoughts??
If you want to modify tuple creation from the constructor argument, you will
have to define a __new__, e.g.,

 >>> class Test(tuple):
 ...     def __new__(cls, tup):
 ...         inst = tuple.__new__(cls, tup+('mod from __new__',))
 ...         inst.x = 5
 ...         return inst
 ...
 >>> a = Test((1,2))
 >>> a
 (1, 2, 'mod from __new__')
 >>> type(a)
 <class '__main__.Test'>
 >>> a.x
 5

You notice I did the __init__ job of self.x = 5 right in __new__, but we could
have left it for init:

 >>> class Test(tuple):
 ...     def __new__(cls, tup):
 ...         inst = tuple.__new__(cls, tup+('mod from __new__',))
 ...         return inst
 ...     def __init__(self, *ignore):
 ...         self.x = 5
 ...
 >>> a = Test((1,2))
 >>> a.x
 5
 >>> a
 (1, 2, 'mod from __new__')

__init__ gets called with the same arg as __new__, so you have to allow for it.
The *args format is handy, since you can ignore zero or more args without knowing
how many are being passed. Otherwise ignore=None would accept and ignore zero or one args.

You could call init yourself from __new__ by doing inst.__init__(), but that doesn't
eliminate the automatic call after you leave __new__ returning inst, so you'd get two calls,
one with no arg and one with the tup arg. (Note that just specifying tup as an arg means
exactly one arg must be supplied. E.g., tup=() would give you a default empty tuple.
Also, if you wanted more args for __init__, you'd have to allow for them in both arg lists,
e.g.,

 >>> class Test(tuple):
 ...     def __new__(cls, tup, *ignore, **ignorekw):
 ...         inst = tuple.__new__(cls, tup+('mod from __new__',))
 ...         return inst
 ...     def __init__(self, ignoretup, ones=111, two='two', **kw):
 ...         self.x = 5
 ...         self.ones = ones
 ...         self.two = two
 ...         self.kwargs = kw
 ...
 >>> a = Test((3,4),'string ones', 2, keyword='arg', another=123)
 >>> a
 (3, 4, 'mod from __new__')
 >>> a.x
 5
 >>> a.ones
 'string ones'
 >>> a.two
 2
 >>> a.kwargs
 {'another': 123, 'keyword': 'arg'}

Of course, you could have used the extra parameters to do something
in place of the ('mod from __new__',) nonsense ;-)

Hm, ... I'm not sure I like not having control of the call to __init__ even 
when I've defined __new__. What is the right way to do that?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Oct 27 15:23:35 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:23:35 -0400
Subject: Open Source License Question
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <RZCdnXEZNP1YaOLcRVn-qA@rogers.com>

Following a link in the article that I was pointing to, I found yet another 
interesting article.  See especially the "Choosing a License" section in 
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/perens.html.  I didn't know 
about the X license before, but it sounds intriguing.  Michael, you may be 
interested in that or in LGPL.

Dan

"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message 
news:97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA at rogers.com...
> Michael, I have one comment in-line (see below), but other than that I can 
> only say that I chose GPL for my own project.  It may discourage use of my 
> code for commercial purposes but it might even be pretentious to expect 
> that something like that would ever happen.  On the other hand, I was more 
> interested in the advantages of open-source and I wanted to enforce that 
> as much as possible.  I did some research of my own at the time (recently, 
> actually) but I didn't go much into details and I didn't study other 
> licenses in detail either, but I chose GPL in large part because it is the 
> most widely used.
>
> I tried to find some of the web pages that I read when I was doing my 
> research but I couldn't.  However, I stumbled upon an article that I 
> didn't see before and that is very much in line with my thoughts.  Here's 
> a link: http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/gpl-compatible.html.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Dan
>
> "Michael Foord" <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6 at posting.google.com...
>> I'd like to formalise slightly the license I release my projects
>> under. At the moment it's 'free to use, modify, distribute and
>> relicense'. This is basically fine as I don't want t oprevent people
>> using my work in commercial settings - but I would like to retain the
>> right to be identified as the author. I'd also like to prevent people
>> selling derivative works where my stuff forms the substantial part of
>> the poduct.
>
> Michael, I think it's going to be hard to get what you want.  I don't see 
> how you can give a lot of freedom ("I don't want to prevent people using 
> my work in commercial settings") and, at the same time, achieve something 
> like "to prevent people selling derivative works where my stuff forms the 
> substantial part of the poduct".  I'm no lawyer, but I don't think you can 
> define in a license what is a "substantial part of the product".
>
>> I'd prefer to use an OSI approved license - but it's not essential.
>> I've been browsing through them and I can't quite see any that
>> *exactly* fits the bill. Before I draft my own I wondered if anyone
>> had a reccomendation.
>>
>> I don't need to require people to make a list of amendments if they
>> change things. This puts the Python license out. I also don't mind
>> people relicensing derivative works - a simple thanks in the
>> documentation and a link to the homepage is my basic requirement.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Fuzzy
>> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
>
> 




From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Oct 13 09:32:45 2004
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:32:45 +0200
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <8-ydnZX55r3oYffcRVn-vw@giganews.com>
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>	<MNCdnR9olpAhWvTcRVn-pg@comcast.com>	<JcmdnQnFT5NhH_fcRVn-tg@giganews.com>	<V8SdnRfq9bLtQvfcRVn-vg@comcast.com>
	<8-ydnZX55r3oYffcRVn-vw@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <416D2E7D.5060808@sweetapp.com>

Istvan Albert wrote:
> [benchmark snipped]
> This does not appear to indicate that boo is any faster
> than python...

Correct. Indeed, your benchmark, which is the most sloppily constructed 
that I've ever soon, doesn't indicate much at all.

Cheers,
Brian


From khatwin at ratbaggames.com  Thu Oct 28 21:47:05 2004
From: khatwin at ratbaggames.com (Kim Hawtin)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:17:05 +0930
Subject: P2P framework
In-Reply-To: <4180f21f$0$43632$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
References: <4180f21f$0$43632$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
Message-ID: <4181A119.9050009@ratbaggames.com>

Boria Feigin wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am looking for a networking (p2p, if you like) framework with Python
> bindings. Requirements are very basic - a node should be able to:
>     o join/leave the network (perhaps with some auth. mechanism, but not
> essential at this stage)
>     o broadcast a message to other nodes
>     o communicate with another node on the network
> 
> Basically, something like Sun's JXTA (www.jxta.org) would be more than
> sufficient. They do have a Python bindings project (jxtapy.jxta.org) but
> that seems dead and I'd rather avoid using Jython for the time being.
> 
> All and any advice appreciated.
hi,

have a look at circle. might be appropriate.

cheers,

kim


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Oct 15 16:07:12 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:07:12 -0700
Subject: how to re-import changed code?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5022.1097870440.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5022.1097870440.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10n0banri5f2bda@corp.supernews.com>

Wolfgang.Stoecher at profactor.at wrote:

>Hi,
>
>another beginner's question:
>when I import a module, change the corresponding textfile and try to 
>import the same module again, it looks like the internal code does not 
>change (the source-line in an error-message is up to date, however!). Also 
>del module before import and deleting the .pyc file do not help! How to 
>realize a fast edit-try-cycle? (btw: I am using python 2.2 under windows)
>  
>

What you're looking for is the reload() function.

Normally, an imported module is cached by the interpreter, and 
subsequent imports go straight to the cache without checking whether the 
file has changed or not.  If you reload(), that specifically clears the 
cache and imports from the (current) disk file again.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From liquid at kuht.it  Mon Oct 18 14:22:43 2004
From: liquid at kuht.it (GMTaglia)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:22:43 GMT
Subject: optparse examples
References: <_Uxcd.50307$b5.2548305@news3.tin.it>
	<mailman.5088.1098038096.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TRTcd.158921$35.7775563@news4.tin.it>

Hameed U. Khan wrote:

> Hi,
>  below is the link to programme i made 6 months ago when i started
> using linux and found no visual type of display of memory in text
> mode. this programme displays number and a bar showing the memory
> usage. i have used optparse in it may be it will help you.
>   the file is zipped becuase geocities dont allow .py files ;). and i
> have no webspace some where else.
> http://geocities.com/hameedkhaan/meminfo.zip

Thanks for this recipe Hameed, I will use it to learn more :)

cheers 
GMTaglia


From virge at jakarta.wasantara.net.id  Fri Oct  8 10:30:46 2004
From: virge at jakarta.wasantara.net.id (Virge)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 14:30:46 -0000
Subject: [VIRGE] VIRUS NOTIFICATION
Message-ID: <20041008143046.24967.qmail@jakarta.wasantara.net.id>


################# VIRUS NOTIFICATION #################

A message you sent to

helmets at jakarta.wasantara.net.id

contains a virus or a worm, and was not delivered.


--
DATE       : Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:33:58 +0900
SUBJECT    : Re: Message
VIRUS      : WORM_NETSKY.P
--

It is possible your computer is infected without your knowledge.
Please download a current virus scanner and check your computer.

Thank you.

######################################################

.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 13 07:52:53 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:52:53 +0200
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
References: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gljwcn.hu8qmfo9di8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416c7e11.110043444@news.oz.net>
	<1gllabm.igadlt1xcmxgqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416cfd61.142635999@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1gllixl.soifpo1xg2cdvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:18:28 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
> 
> >Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> >   ...
> >> >>>> class foo:
> >> >...   def __getattr__(self, name):
> >   ...
> >> On my system, (NT4, python 2.3.2) what really happens for newstyle classes
> >> isn't apparent from that experiment:
> >
> >Heh, of course not -- the main difference between old-style and
> >new-style classes is that, for the latter, implicit lookup of special
> >methods when needed for operations starts with the *class*, not with the
> Well, it always starts with the class if there's no attribute on the instance,

I find this a strange meaning for the word "start".  To ensure the
instance doesn't have the attribute, that's where (conceptually) one
could say the lookup "starts", I think.

> but the key is whether the "implicit lookup" for methods needed for
> operations uses an overridable __getattribute__ somewhere, or just chases
> down the bases chain looking for the actual __gt__ or whatever, not
> allowing a hook to synthesize a result.

Actually, it reaches right into the appropriate slot of the type
structure.  The slots are generated or changed when the type (i.e., the
class object) is generated or changed.  So, it may be improper on my
part to call this procedure a 'lookup'.

> >I just used an old-style class because, that way, I could show the
> >lookups happening without having to code a custom metaclass.  The
> Could you show such a metaclass? I have tried a few things and not
> succeeded. It almost makes me think there is no place to hook the internal
> __getattribute__ that looks for the methods for code generated from 12<f
> and the like. I'd be interested in seeing it.

I think I'd basically have to repeat what types.ClassType is doing --
essentially, prefill all slots with functions that _do_ perform the
lookups.  To be honest, I haven't tried to see if that strategy hits any
snags, I just don't think it would.

 
> >special names being looked for are just the same, whether for classic or
>                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> but maybe not the same order, see below 
> >newstyle classes, anyway -- all that changes is _where_ they're looked
> >up (starting on the instance, vs starting on the class).

You're right -- coercion is "fading" so it's now attempted _after_ 3-way
comparison rather than before; so the 'where' isn't quite _all_ that's
changed (I had never coded nor seen a classic class which depended on
coercion for its comparisons, which may explain though not excuse my
imprecision).


> NBD, but perhaps the order change is a version difference?

Yep, it's part of coercion slowly going away.

> Not that the OP was asking any of this ;-)

No, but they may still be meaningful in some cases, of course.


Alex


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 11 11:34:57 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:34:57 +0100
Subject: Python to Python communication
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.11.13.58.44.349079@thomas-guettler.de>
References: <Xns957F95400C53Ecpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
	<pan.2004.10.11.13.58.44.349079@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <sKxad.33170$Z14.12742@news.indigo.ie>

[Harald Massa]
>>I have a group of Python programms which I want to teach to "talk to each 
>>other".

[Thomas Guettler]
> Peer to peer: There is no central server. All can talk to each other.
> The problem is: How to find the other? If there are on one computer
> this is easy: Just write files to a directory all processes know.
> But if you want to talk to other computers, you need to know their
> IP addresses.

Or use a peer-to-peer library that has solved all of those problems already

http://www.python.org/other/spread/

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Oct 20 23:02:54 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 03:02:54 GMT
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <2tomkhF22ksv0U2@uni-berlin.de>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5153.1098150302.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1098194866.552318.234710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5183.1098208117.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glxbjm.3z1g3hhxomoxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Wwfdd.1635$%h1.697@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mntbn01dpfi3h456dkb90t3kqlnom14m0e@4ax.com>
	<0lndd.1925$KJ6.830@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<2tomkhF22ksv0U2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <yFFdd.2799$%h1.268@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> Indeed. It would be nice to have access to a time machine
> so one could go back and ask oneself about things like
> this...

As in James P. Hogan's book "Thrice Upon a Time".


Also notable for having no antagonist and for being
the only story I know of that uses quantum time as
the way to resolve time travel paradoxes.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 25 18:38:39 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:38:39 -0400
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
In-Reply-To: <468v42-c23.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
References: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<468v42-c23.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <Lkffd.18153$SW3.2317@fed1read01>

Michael Str?der wrote:

> Christian Tismer wrote:
[Offer of paid work]
> 
> I'm not sure about the exact daily rates for programmers in Berlin but I 
> would not expect many responses from really skilled people for taking 
> over a commercial project for such a low payment and additionally taking 
> the risk that there's no payment at all.
> 

Others have responded adequately to your other points, but I'd like to 
mention that I think Christian's standing in the Python community is 
such that he's be extremely unlikely to jeopardise it for what is a 
fairly trifling amopunt of money.

I hope we'll have the honor of seeing Chris at the next PyCon, my last 
as chairman.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From pcslen at comcast.net  Thu Oct  7 01:19:47 2004
From: pcslen at comcast.net (Len Sumnler)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 05:19:47 GMT
Subject: 2 Newbie questions.
Message-ID: <Tl49d.425544$8_6.322047@attbi_s04>

Hi All

I am running SuSe Linux ver. 9.0. I have written the famous "Hello 
World" program and want to run it as an executable.  I have searched the 
net and performed chmod +x mypython.py and added as the first line of my 
program #!/usr/bin/env python.  When I try to run the program as follows
$ mypython.py I get the error message of,
"bash: mypython.py: command not found".  What am i doing wrong.

Second, I am looking for a good online tutorial for some one who knows 
other programming languages assembler, cobol, etc any suggestions.

Thanks
Len Sumnler, Jr


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  9 11:19:48 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 16:19:48 +0100
Subject: module name not recognized
In-Reply-To: <ck7bmn$h30$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <ck6s3u$bp4$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<J-mdneEJ14ewYfvcRVn-hA@comcast.com>
	<ck7bmn$h30$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <YgT9d.33077$Z14.12622@news.indigo.ie>

[Darren Dale]
 >>>I have built two basic modules using distutils. One of them
 >>> installs fine, but the other, I can't import modules from it.
 >>> I've been pouring over the code and I cant find the problem.

[Larry Bates]
 >>Two things to check:
 >>
 >>Does the package have the required __init__.py file?
 >>Is the directory where it is installed on the PYTHONPATH?

[Darren Dale]
 > I checked both before writing the original post, this isnt the
 > problem.

One more thing to check: have you named your module with an identical 
name to an existing module that is before your module the path, e.g. 
calling your module "xml" or "email", which clash with standard 
library modules. This is a frequent cause of hair-pulling inexplicable 
behaviour.

If that isn't the problem either, then you're probably best off 
posting more details, i.e. what are your modules called, where are 
they located, what doesn't work/what exceptions are raised, etc.

regards,

alan.


From jbellis at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 10:07:46 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan  Ellis)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 07:07:46 -0700
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5153.1098150302.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5153.1098150302.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1098194866.552318.234710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Jonathan  Ellis wrote:
> > Wouldn't it have been better to ask these questions BEFORE
proposing
> > python as (presumably) a Great Solution?  IMO, as great as python
is,
> > it isn't appropriate for projects that are large and include many
> > developers.
>
> Having recently released a piece of software with 10k lines of Python
> running in its backend as a core technology, and being paid for it, I
> will say that Python was and is the best tool for the job.  A C
version
> would have been at least 4-10 times as many lines, and we wouldn't be
> releasing ~3 months after starting with nearly the confidence we are
now.

Heh.  "Large" depends on a lot of things, particularly connectedness,
but I really can't picture 10k being large under any circumstances.
-Jonathan



From rkern at ucsd.edu  Thu Oct 28 18:09:49 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:09:49 -0700
Subject: Constructor problem
In-Reply-To: <418169ec$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
References: <418169ec$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <clrqnd$bl7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Nick wrote:

> class Deck2:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.deck = 52 * [Card()]

Here you are creating a single Card instance and putting the same object 
into a list 52 times. Each slot in the list points to the same object.

Another lesson to take away from this: Don't optimize prematurely. The 
simplest implementation should be fine unless proven otherwise via 
profiling.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From indigo at bitglue.com  Wed Oct  6 08:20:23 2004
From: indigo at bitglue.com (Phil Frost)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:20:23 -0400
Subject: Java to Python byte code
In-Reply-To: <AJEGLHNCFFFNFIPAOCPLOENPCBAA.kkuppa@xora.com>
References: <AJEGLHNCFFFNFIPAOCPLOENPCBAA.kkuppa@xora.com>
Message-ID: <20041006122023.GC5130@unununium.org>

I know of no such tool. Furthermore, I doubt it would be faster. The
Java VM is many times faster than Python for most things. Perhaps a
better solution would be to compile your Java with gcj and then
interface to that with Pyrex.

On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 03:08:52PM +0530, Kiran Kumar wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I am just curious to know if there is any tool which would let me
> cross compile java source code to python byte codes directly.
> 
> I have developed a library [in Java ] for statistcs and machine 
> learning. Some of them are computationally demanding. My
> line of thinking is , if I could get to compile java source to 
> python byte code , it would be more faster than interfacing
> with Jython.
> 
> Any comments would be helpful
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kiran Kumar


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 05:08:36 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:08:36 +0200
Subject: shelve: choice of database package
References: <mailman.4327.1096966702.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl6k92.1k9bkqw1a1khhoN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Ajay <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote:

> hi!
> 
> i am using shelve in a piece of code i have. The code originally used
> 'bsddb' but the Berkeley DB library isn't present on my platform (WinCE).
> It says in the library reference that "The choice of which database package
> will be used (such as dbm, gdbm or bsddb) depends on which interface is
> available".
> now i can say its not using bsddb (since its not present). Is there a way
> of telling which package it is using?

See the whichdbm module in the standard library.


Alex


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct 13 22:40:20 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:40:20 -0700
Subject: what exception is it?
In-Reply-To: <416de2f8$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <416de2f8$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20041013193918.094A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> try:
> 	[do something]
> except IOError: [IO error handling]
> except TypeError: [Type error handling]
> except: [other error handling]
> 
> in [other error handling], one of the things I need to do is to display 
> to the use the kind of exception raised and the message, if any.
> 
> How can I do this without a big if statement to go through the list of 
> exceptions?

import traceback

try:
    #stuff
#other except statements
except:
    traceback.print_exc()



 - Josiah



From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Oct 11 13:45:07 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Ville Vainio)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:45:07 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 11)
Message-ID: <mailman.4724.1097527415.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>

QOTW:  "As revealed by PSU Research Paper 'UU788', the real reason is a side
effect of the nanovirus encroaching into non-whitespace, as first proposed
by 'UU355' and then earlier proven (twice, as it turned out) by 'UU6 9'.
The only defence is t*^$Z:%Z* NO CARRIER" - Richie Hindle. He appears to have
survived the... unfortunate incident.

"What do I have to say to get into the QOTW?" - Dan Python, who finally
realized that Dan Perl is not going to cut it as a name.


    Johannes Eble is looking for software te help replace Matlab with
    Python.  Respondents recommend the combination of SciPy and IPython.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=uhu1m0t4euvekl61ilengepdhuettvmutr%404ax.com
    
    Irmen de Jong is looking for a way to make an object temporarily
    read-only. Alex Martelli comes up with a clever,
    obvious-when-you-have-seen-it approach of changing the class of
    the live object.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%25aleaxit%40yahoo.com
    
    Global interpreter lock of CPython and multi-CPU scalability are
    a recurrent theme in comp.lang.python. The current concern involves
    the upcoming availability and popularity of multicore CPUs.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f40posting.google.com
    
    PySQLite, the python interface to the SQLite embedded relational
    database, hits 1.0.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.4368.1097005231.5135.python-list%40python.org
   
    Carlos Ribeiro provides Erik Johnson a simple explanation of the
    mechanics behind class and function definitions - a simple matter
    that confuses many, especially people who think Python has such
    things as 'declarations'.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.4460.1097104255.5135.python-list%40python.org
    
    Alex Martelli shows how we should use the plain objects returned by
    object() as sentinels.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%25aleaxit%40yahoo.com
    
    Robin Becker needs to determine whether an object is a sequence.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=41650CAE.704%40chamonix.reportlab.co.uk
    
    Boo 0.4.3, the Python-like language for .NET/Mono CLR, is out.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw%40comcast.com
	

========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From justinstraube at charter.net  Wed Oct 13 23:17:12 2004
From: justinstraube at charter.net (justin)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:17:12 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Dialog boxes
References: <hlqrm0pv92o1h4qjl0oabb26t59il5nrq3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cqrrm0dohajpdi40pqa023luop3a1papov@4ax.com>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:06:31 -0700, justin <justinstraube at charter.net>
wrote:

>I am looking for one that will allow me to select a directory rather
>than a file. Any suggestions what I can try?

Ok, I just found what I was looking for,  tkFileDialog.askdirectory().

justin





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Oct 21 21:01:11 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:01:11 -0500
Subject: Method Underscores?
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
Message-ID: <10ngmuq11n9qn97@news.supernews.com>


"Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote in message 
news:9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057 at trndny09...
> Is there a purpose for using trailing and leading double underscores for 
> built-in method names? My impression was that underscores are supposed to 
> imply some sort of pseudo-privatization, but would using myclass.len() 
> instead of myclass.__len__() really cause Python considerable harm? As 
> much as I adore Python, I have to admit, I find this to be one of the 
> language's most "unPythonic" features and a key arguing point against 
> Python. I've searched for a discussion on this topic in the groups 
> archives, but found little. What are everyone's thoughts on this subject?

Languages that make everything methods tend to have
two characteristics in common: a single base class, and
no facility for procedural programming.

Python does not have a single base class, and one of its
strong points is that it's a multi-paradigm language. You can
use it for procedural programming without having to put
everything in the object paradigm. People quite frequently
do this for scripts.

In single base class languages, the top object in the
hierarchy is a hod-podge of methods that have no
relationship other than the language designer's decision
that the function is fundamental enough that it needs to
be available to every object, whether it needs it or not.

It would be technically possible (and relatively easy for
anyone with a bit of experience with working on Python's
internals) to add, for example, .len() to the object class.
Would this break anything? Unlikely in most cases
(there is one edge case I know of where it would).  Alex Martelli's
comment elsewhere in this thread assumes one would also
remove it from the builtins, which would of course break
everything in sight.

Removing it from the builtins is equivalent to eliminating
the multi-paradigm nature of Python: you could no longer
do effective procedural programming without the builtins!
This is simply not going to happen: it would be a completely
different language. Discussing it is futile.

Also, the new .len() method would only be available
to new style classes written in Python, and then only
if the author of some subclass had not decided to implement
their own len() method with different semantics. The
first of these two objections goes away in Python 3.0,
where old style classes are eliminated. The second,
however, is a difficulty that all "pure" OO languages
need to deal with, and there is no real good way of
handling it (meaning obvious, works all the time
everywhere, and upward compatible without breaking
anything.).

Having a parallel structure where a large number of
builtins are also implemented as methods on object
violates Python's basic philosophy in at least two
ways: there should only be one (obvious) way to do
something, and things should work the same way
everywhere.

All that said, I'd like to see some of the builtins
as methods on object, but since it's not going
to happen, it's not worth worrying about.

John Roth





From francisl at aei.ca  Mon Oct  4 19:10:57 2004
From: francisl at aei.ca (Francis Lavoie)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:10:57 -0400
Subject: mp3/ogg player
Message-ID: <4161D881.5080606@aei.ca>

Hi

I looking to build a second program in python. I would like to code a 
music player, which can play mp3 an ogg files. But every solution that I 
find, seem over complicated or not multiplaform.
Is there a simple package of libraries that we only have to install 
once, or plug it into the program that give mp3 and ogg playability like 
a .jar file in java?

My main developpement OS is windows for now.

Thank you



From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct  9 23:56:13 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 03:56:13 GMT
Subject: Init a table of functions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4656.1097379445.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>	<942ad.836$Bw1.213@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4656.1097379445.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xp2ad.8055$UP1.2350@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> Yo Andrew.  That doesn't work.  Check my previous post w/ errors.

What do you mean?

Ahh, I see I solved the first problem (can't find 'foo')
without solving what the OP wanted.  Try this reordering.

class foo:
      def f1():
           print "f1"

      def f2():
           print "f2"

      K={"f1" : f1,
         "f2" : f2,
         }
      f1 = staticmethod(f1)
      f2 = staticmethod(f2)

def main():
      foo.K["f1"]()
      foo.K["f2"]()

if __name__ == "__main__":
      main()

The 'staticmethod' is a descriptor and only works in
the context of a class.

Functions get turned into methods only in the context
of a class.

So to use a function as a function, get it before it
turns into a method or staticmethod.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 21:59:34 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:59:34 +0800
Subject: Tkinter 3000 / WCK (Re: Integrate Tile into Tkinter)
In-Reply-To: <3Gkdd.2134$Ag.1192@fe37.usenetserver.com>
References: <3Gkdd.2134$Ag.1192@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <2u5oqmF27qhb2U1@uni-berlin.de>

Speaking of Tkinter, I noticed that there has
been progress with Fredrik Lundh's Tkinter 3000/
Widget Construction Kit project.  Specifically,
you can now make your own Tkinter widgets from
scratch using pure Python.  Performance actually
seems to be quite good.

http://www.effbot.org/zone/wck.htm

--- quote from WCK page ----

The Widget Construction Kit (WCK) is an extension
API that allows you to implement all sorts of custom
widgets, in pure Python. Creating a new widget can be
as simple as:

from WCK import Widget

class HelloWidget(Widget):

     def ui_handle_repair(self, draw, x0, y0, x1, y1):
         font = self.ui_font("black", "times")
         draw.text((0, 0), "hello, world!", font)

-----------------------------



Kevin Walzer wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Are there any plans to integrate the Tile extension from Tk into
> Tkinter? This theming extension allows native look and feel under
> Windows XP and OS X, in particular, and adds a lot of theming
> flexibility to Tk apps. In fact, it would bring Tkinter pretty much in
> line with wxPython in terms of a native "look" on various platforms,
> though wx still has a larger set of core widgets. I've seen only a
> little discusison about Tile in Python circles, but it's one of the most
> important advances going on with Tcl/Tk these days. Anyway, I'm just
> curious, as I have some experience with Tcl/Tk and am learning Python.
> 
> - --
> Kevin Walzer, PhD
> WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
> http://www.wordtech-software.com
> http://www.smallbizmac.com
> http://www.kevin-walzer.com
> mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iD8DBQFBddb9JmdQs+6YVcoRAgdKAJ4v99f7qGXHEaoFTS249cvFNIXArwCdFki+
> f2Io7rRlF6IHbPsVTHAQAzY=
> =s+ao
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 


From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 30 03:56:09 2004
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 00:56:09 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>	<698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5623.1098986369.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0410292356.df11f6a@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.5623.1098986369.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> And as others have said more than once, it is not so common that the
> boundedness of one's integers falls on the 32 bit signed integer
> boundary.  Ages and money were given as examples.

I'm not quite sure how this is relevant.  My issue is with the
unboundedness of computations, not the unboundedness of the numbers
themselves.

> And what is so wrong with implementing all of integer arithmetic in
> Python?

It's a whole lot of extra effort when a perfectly viable such
"battery" existed in previous versions of Python.

Jeremy


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  5 11:08:39 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 15:08:39 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6dqy.17aec2n1uecu0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4340.1096988457.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4162b8f7$0$59523$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:

> No, the tutorial does not and no, this is not a *school* assignment.  
> Grief, like I said, I haven't been in school since 1976.  Plus, how many 
> schools (I assume you mean like a university or something) teach Python?

Actually, several that I've heard of.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  The Korean War must
                                  at               have been fun.
                               visi.com            


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Fri Oct 29 07:35:50 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:35:50 +0200
Subject: Tkinter and utf-8
References: <mailman.5643.1099019383.5135.python-list@python.org><4181cc21$0$3620$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<mailman.5644.1099029894.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41822b37$0$31198$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

>>> Mandrake newbie

What is Mandrake ?  The magician ?  A comic personn ?
I am not in love with Linux...     ;o)


Michel Claveau






From zathras at thwackety.com  Thu Oct  7 18:23:58 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:23:58 +0100
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4165ad9a$0$44853$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>

Fuzzyman wrote:
...
> Assuming that each visitor will have a unique IP address is probably
> not 100% accurate but will have a reasonably low margin of error !! Is
> there any reason not to use this approach ?

For this task things are worse than it sounds:
   * Many users are behind either firewalls and/or proxies
   * In the case of a simple NATting firewall all your accesses from offices
     will be from a single IP (or small set of IPs).
   * In the case of proxies that set either Client-IP or X-Forwarded-For
     headers you can't guarantee that the IPs are passed through intact
     (depending on the paranoia/privacy settings of the proxy)
   * Even if you *can* see the IP, many people connect from systems where
     their IP changes regularly - meaning you break your request streams so
     you don't get the full behaviour over time and means that people
     overlap.
   * Many ISPs that generate large amounts of traffic proxy all their
     traffic. Meaning you have millions of users from tens or hundreds of
     IPs.
   * The "My TiVO thinks I'm Gay" effect. PVRs often have settings to say "I
     like", "I hate", which allows the PVR to determine the tastes of the
     owner. In theory this sounds great, but because it assumes everyone in
     the same household likes the same thing it jumps to the wrong
     conclusions. If you consider homes with several people, you can't even
     rely on accesses from the same _machine_ to come from the same user.
     (If they share the same login there's nothing you can do obviously)
etc...

When you put all these togethrer using IPs _looks_ very bad.

What's an alternative? First a few points:
   * Well, you want to track users. This means by EU regs (based on your
     email this might apply) you have to let users of your site know you're
     doing this.
   * Cookies can get by alot of the issues listed above
   * You're only really interested in people who can reliably send you the
     same cookie twice. (If they refuse cookies, you can't track them using
     cookies obviously, and the above implies IP won't work brilliantly for
     you)
   * Relying on cookies also means you can allow your users to opt out from
     being tracked. 

One alternative: (pseudocode)

Recieve request
If no-cookie-received:
   Set Cookie: "NEWUSER"
else:
   if cookie-recieved == "NEWUSER":
      # We know they can send us cookies back
      id = gen-id()
      Set Cookie: id

Then just log requests with the recieved cookie, trackable users will have
a unique id, whether their IP changes, share a system, behind nat'ing
firewalls etc. This allows you to track unique users that are trackable
using cookies. If you have a particularly large number of users accessing
your site you can tie in sampling (perhaps something like density biased
sampling) in there as well something like this:

new-cookie = None
If no-cookie-received:
   new-cookie = "NEWUSER"
else:
   if cookie-recieved == "NEWUSER":
      # We know they can send us cookies back
      id = gen-id()
      new-cookie = id

if add-to-sample-set(request):
   tag = "SAMPLE"
   new-cookie = current-cookie or new-cookie
else:
   tag = "NOSAMPLE"

if new-cookie:
   Set Cookie: tag new-cookie

(Or something like that IYSWIM - ie get the user population to indicate if
they're being sampled - again, this allows your users to easily opt out,
and also means the memory/etc required to determine whether to track the
user or not isn't dependent on the number of requests your site gets -
meaning that you can keep analysis costs for your site under control. If
you've only got a small site this probably doesn't matter to you, but 
worth bearing in mind).

The interesting thing about this from my perspective is that if you do 
take a cookie approach like this, it actually allows you to figure out how
much error there actually is between IP and cookie - rather than just guess.
The other nicety is it allows your users to opt-out very easily - since they
can either switch off cookies, or you can send them a "NOSAMPLE" cookie.

Also, at present comments in this thread revolve around "this isn't
reliable because of x,y and z". If you take this sort of approach you
can find out the margin of error and then decide whether you're happy
with it or not. Also as you can see from above this doesn't really have
to be a very complex operation (unless you're in a high volume scenario
with lots of distinct users and need to add in the sampling aspect).

Best Regards,


Michael



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 19:44:51 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:44:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: list comprehension for splitting strings into pairs
References: <mailman.4781.1097619107.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2t344cF1qetlbU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041013T013223-613@post.gmane.org>

Russell Blau <russblau <at> hotmail.com> writes:

> >>> lst = ['1', '1:2', '3', '-1:4']
> >>> splits = [':' in item and item.split(':', 1) or [item, None]
>               for item in lst]
> >>> splits
> [['1', None], ['1', '2'], ['3', None], ['-1', '4']]

Oooh.  Pretty.  =)

What if I want to convert my splits list to:

[[1, None], [1, 2], [3, None], [-1, 4]]

where I actually call int on each of the non-None items?  Obviously I could 
extend your example to:

>>> lst = ['1', '1:2', '3', '-1:4']
>>> splits = [':' in item and [int(x) for x in item.split(':', 1)]
...           or [int(item), None]
...           for item in lst]
>>> splits
[[1, None], [1, 2], [3, None], [-1, 4]]

But that's getting to be a bit more work than looks good to me in a list 
comprehension.  I thought about doing it in two steps:

>>> splits = [':' in item and item.split(':', 1) or [item, None]
...           for item in lst]
>>> splits = [[int(i), p is not None and int(p) or p]
...           for i, p in splits]
>>> splits
[[1, None], [1, 2], [3, None], [-1, 4]]

This looks decent to me, but if you see a better way, I'd love to hear about 
it. =)

Thanks again!

Steve




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 13 16:37:41 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:37:41 +0200
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
References: <XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com><MNCdnR9olpAhWvTcRVn-pg@comcast.com>
	<20041010175617.0897.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <ckk3ii$6r7$1@sea.gmane.org>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> There was also a similar thing with Prothon (Python with prototypes) by
> Mark Hahn a while back, that actually used this newsgroup/mailing list
> as their discussion forum.

so we can expect Boo to turn into BoC to turn into Sproo, "better than
everything else, more dynamic than everything else, faster than everything
else, more syntaxes than everything, now will someone implement this for
me, please" within a couple of months?  cool.

</F> 





From mcherm at mcherm.com  Sun Oct 17 18:13:01 2004
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:13:01 -0700
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
Message-ID: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>

A few weeks ago, the suggestion was made on Python-Dev that it might be time
to consider replacing the ConfigParser module and that we should hold a
"shootout" (ie ask for implementations and see what we get).

Since then I've been playing around with this... not the parsing part (which
so far I have completely ignored) but the programmer interface. There needs
to be a well-thought-out data model for the information stored, and the user
interface needs to be very easy to use, yet not so "magical" that it becomes
difficult to understand.

I have put together what I think is probably my best proposal. It is based
on a superset of ini config files and java .property files. There is a
convenient access mechanism ("config.my_app.some_value") as well as more
general approaches ("config.values['my_app.serviceByPort.80']"). I have
tried to consider issues like unicode (I permit fairly lenient mixing of
unicode and str), and unit testing ("... call config.clear_all() in the
tearDown() method of any unittests that use the config module..."). I have
even considered carefully what to leave OUT (converting to non-string data
types, interpolating values, things like that).

I think that I am now at the point where I could really use some input from
others. So I'd like to invite people to review my design and send me your
suggestions. I'm not expecting this as a *useful* module yet (it doesn't
yet parse files!), but it seemed like a good stage at which to ask for
feedback. I'm attaching two files, config.py and configTest.py, and they
are also available from these urls:

    http://www.mcherm.com/publish/2004-10-17/config.py
    http://www.mcherm.com/publish/2004-10-17/configTest.py

Thanks in advance for reviewing this.

-- Michael Chermside



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Oct 16 18:54:42 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:54:42 -0500
Subject: viewing pydoc output in FireFox
In-Reply-To: <cks809$til$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cks809$til$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20041016225440.GA2588@unpythonic.net>

Please see
    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153448
    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84128
Apparently you can use about:config to change security.checkloaduri to
false to "fix" the behavior.

Perhaps pydoc should serve up source files as well as documentation,
since this behavior by design in firefox makes those links break.

Jeff
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From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Oct 27 09:33:19 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:33:19 -0400
Subject: Open Source License Question
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA@rogers.com>

Michael, I have one comment in-line (see below), but other than that I can 
only say that I chose GPL for my own project.  It may discourage use of my 
code for commercial purposes but it might even be pretentious to expect that 
something like that would ever happen.  On the other hand, I was more 
interested in the advantages of open-source and I wanted to enforce that as 
much as possible.  I did some research of my own at the time (recently, 
actually) but I didn't go much into details and I didn't study other 
licenses in detail either, but I chose GPL in large part because it is the 
most widely used.

I tried to find some of the web pages that I read when I was doing my 
research but I couldn't.  However, I stumbled upon an article that I didn't 
see before and that is very much in line with my thoughts.  Here's a link: 
http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/gpl-compatible.html.

Hope this helps,

Dan

"Michael Foord" <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6 at posting.google.com...
> I'd like to formalise slightly the license I release my projects
> under. At the moment it's 'free to use, modify, distribute and
> relicense'. This is basically fine as I don't want t oprevent people
> using my work in commercial settings - but I would like to retain the
> right to be identified as the author. I'd also like to prevent people
> selling derivative works where my stuff forms the substantial part of
> the poduct.

Michael, I think it's going to be hard to get what you want.  I don't see 
how you can give a lot of freedom ("I don't want to prevent people using my 
work in commercial settings") and, at the same time, achieve something like 
"to prevent people selling derivative works where my stuff forms the 
substantial part of the poduct".  I'm no lawyer, but I don't think you can 
define in a license what is a "substantial part of the product".

> I'd prefer to use an OSI approved license - but it's not essential.
> I've been browsing through them and I can't quite see any that
> *exactly* fits the bill. Before I draft my own I wondered if anyone
> had a reccomendation.
>
> I don't need to require people to make a list of amendments if they
> change things. This puts the Python license out. I also don't mind
> people relicensing derivative works - a simple thanks in the
> documentation and a link to the homepage is my basic requirement.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Fuzzy
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html 




From david.bear at asu.edu  Thu Oct 21 19:08:41 2004
From: david.bear at asu.edu (David Bear)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:08:41 -0700
Subject: confused about stdin
Message-ID: <cl9fhq$46m$1@news.asu.edu>

This may be a dumb question but I'm confused.

using command line syntax pipe like this:

   cat somefile | pyscript

In my pyscript I can simply do 

   buffer = sys.stdin.read()

to get all of whatever cat sends.

However, using syntax like this:

   pyscript < somefile

I'm not sure. Does this send to stdin as well? 

And.. will it work on both unix and windows?

-- 
David Bear
phone:  480-965-8257
fax:    480-965-9189
College of Public Programs/ASU
Wilson Hall 232
Tempe, AZ 85287-0803
 "Beware the IP portfolio, everyone will be suspect of trespassing"


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 05:23:19 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:23:19 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<1glbyrn.4jt08j144wg1dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<b644658b.0410120040.723f73a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gljja1.1nxj82c1a25c1bN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Nicolas Lehuen <nicolas at lehuen.com> wrote:

> problem was the same ; people expected mod_python to run in a
> multi-process context, not a multi-threaded context (I guess this is
> due to a Linux-centered mindset, forgetting about BSD, MacosX or Win32
> OSes). When I asked questions and pointed problem, the answer was 'Duh
> - use Linux with the forking MPM, not Windows with the threading MPM'.

Sorry, I don't get your point.  Sure, Windows makes process creation
hideously expensive and has no forking.  But all kinds of BSD, including
MacOSX, are just great at forking.  Why is a preference for multiple
processes over threads "forgetting about BSD, MacOSX", or any other
flavour of Unix for that matter?

> Well, this is not going to take us anywhere, especially with all the
> multicore CPUs coming.

Again, I don't get it.  Why would multicore CPUs be any worse than
current multi-CPU machines at multiple processes, and forking?


Alex


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Oct 29 07:22:57 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 11:22:57 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>
	<F_9gd.4865$kM.2575@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnco49pr.1ea.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-10-28, Andrew Dalke schreef <adalke at mindspring.com>:
> Jeremy Fincher wrote:
>> The problem with int/long unification is that there is no simple
>> pure-Python alternative for those of us who need a bounded integer
>> type.  If our code depended on that raised OverflowError in order to
>> ensure that our computations were bounded, we're left high and dry
>> with ints and longs unified.  We must either drop down to C and write
>> a bounded integer type, or we're stuck with code that no longer works.
>
> What's wrong with the example Number wrapper I posted a couple days
> ago to this thread?  Here are the essential parts
>

What I think is wrong with it, is that it distributes its constraineds
too far. The fact that you want constraints on a number doesn't imply
that all operations done on this number are bound by the same
constraints

The way I see myself using constrains, would mean I need them on
a name, not on an object.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Oct 17 06:35:55 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:35:55 GMT
Subject: beginning index for generators
In-Reply-To: <cktbgm$7cj$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.5041.1097931341.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckrd7q$75n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<tPlcd.6045$gy1.3010@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cktbgm$7cj$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <fWrcd.5708$6k2.1169@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Peter Otten
> No. That's what I would like xrange() to be.

Ahh, I had forgotten about that restriction.

BTW, this is kinda cute with your code

 >>> list(irange("A", "AAAAAAAAA", "A"))
['A', 'AA', 'AAA', 'AAAA', 'AAAAA', 'AAAAAA', 'AAAAAAA', 'AAAAAAAA']
 >>>

>>And that's itertools.islice?
> 
> 
> No, but it _calls_ itertool.islice() as you may have noted :-)
> Its raison d'?tre is that it allows to pass the start, stop, and step
> attributes of a slice object without looking into the special cases.

Acutally I didn't notice.  I was on my way out the door and didn't
look that closely.  My apologies.

Given the worry you had above about the sys.maxint limit, aren't
you also concerned about the same limits with itertools.islice?

> Yes, unfortunately. Discriminating between dictionaries and lists has been
> deliberately left out. Is there a recommended way to do it? Looking for a
> 'keys' attribute maybe?

No, because there are some data structure which act like both
a list and a dictionary.  Eg, one where the dictionary keys are
strings and the items are stored and accesible via integers
into the sort order.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Thu Oct 28 03:54:12 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:54:12 +0200
Subject: how come .insert() don't work
In-Reply-To: <4180a179$0$76514$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>
References: <41801753$0$62043$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<41801852$0$189$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<41803447$0$41713$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<qnkacu7qzbh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<4180a179$0$76514$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <4180a3e5$0$3624$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Bennie wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This is a chunck out of my program:
> --------------------------------------------------
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> class App:
>     def __init__(self, master):
>         frame = Frame(master)
>         frame.pack()
>        
>         self.menubar = Menu(root)
>         self.html = Menu(self.menubar, tearoff=0)
>         self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.tekst_in('p'))

You're using your tekst_in method before setting the attribute self.tekst, so 
when the method code is executed, there is actully no attribute named tekst; 
hence the Attribute error.

Move the previous line after the self.tekst.pack(...) line and everything should 
be fine.

>     #    self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.tekst_a)
>         self.menubar.add_cascade(label="html", menu=self.html)
>        
>         root.config(menu=self.menubar)
>        
>         self.tekst = Text()
>         self.tekst.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=YES)
>     
>     def tekst_in(self, tag):
>         tekst_tag={'p': '\t\t<p>\n\n\t\t</p>\n', 'br': '<br />'}
>         self.tekst.insert(INSERT, tekst_tag[tag])
> 
>     # This works
>     #def tekst_a(self):
>     #    self.tekst.insert(INSERT, "<p> </p>")
>        
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     root = Tk()
>     app = App(root)
>     root.mainloop()
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> The error is:
> -------------------------------
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test.py", line 30, in ?
>     app = App(root)
>   File "test.py", line 10, in __init__
>     self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.tekst_in('p'))
>   File "test.py", line 21, in tekst_in
>     self.tekst.insert(INSERT, tekst_tag[tag])
> AttributeError: App instance has no attribute 'tekst'
> ------------------------------------------------------
> hope this is enough info.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 07:43:05 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:43:05 -0200
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
Message-ID: <864d370904101804436abfc3cd@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Here I am using some deeply nested, tree-like data structures. In some
situations I need to traverse the tree; the old-style way to do it is
to write a recursive method on the node class, as in:

def walk(self):
    """old-style recursive tree traversal"""
    child.do_something
    for child in childs:
        child.walk()

Of course, "do_something" can be a configurable method or action on
the node, whose actual implementation doesn't matter for this
discussion. The recursive solution is clean and readable, and that's
why its frequently preferred over the iterative solution, which (a)
requires manual housekeeping (using a stack) to work; and (b) is not
truly 'object oriented', in the sense that it does not delegate node
traversal behavior to the node being traversed.

In my last projects I've been tending towards a greater use of
generators. However, when a generator is used in the situation
described above, the end result does not 'read' as naturally:

def walk(self):
    """generator-based recursive tree traversal"""
    yield child
    for child in childs:
        for node in child.walk()
            yield node

The problem is that I need to 'chain' the yields from the subtrees to
yield back the result to the caller. It does not seem to be as elegant
as the simple recursive version; it's confusing to read, because one
has to figure out what is being yielded in the inner loop, and it's
also error-prone -- it's easy to forget to include the 'yield' in the
inner loop.

I'm now wondering which is better: to keep using old-style recursive
tree traversal code, or to chained-yield generator solution. It's more
of a stylistic decision -- I'm not concerned about raw performance at
this point, but clarity and elegancy of design are more important.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From export at hope.cz  Sat Oct 16 06:59:05 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 03:59:05 -0700
Subject: Poll script in Python
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f@posting.google.com>

Is there a poll script available in Python?


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 13:08:36 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:08:36 -0400
Subject: python, mbox files and forwarding messages
Message-ID: <clm0ak$ne5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Can Python parse a mbox file and forward each individual message within 
that file to someone else?

For example, let's say I have a 10MB mbox file that has 678 messages. 
I'd like to send each of the messages to santa.claus at northpole.com... 
how might I do that? Also, how might I handle messages that have an 
attachment associated with them during the forward process?

Thanks,
Brad


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 08:15:32 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:15:32 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041013051545841e8b@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:37:22 -0400, Nicolas Fleury
<nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
> In the following example:
> 
> class MyMetaclass(type): pass
> class MyBaseType(object): __metaclass__ = MyMetaclass
> class MyType(MyBaseType):
>      x = 4
>      y = 5
>      z = 6
> 
> Is there any way to modify MyMetaclass to keep the order of x,y,z somewhere?

Well, some people have already pointed to you about a recent
discussion on this topic. I was the one who started it all :-) What I
have learned is:

-- Due to the way the class statement is handled, it's not possible
(without really black magic) to guarantee ordering in a transparent
way. If you need to put attributes in order, you have either to
provide a list with all attributes in order, or use derive your
attributes from a base class that provide some ordering mechanism of
its own.

-- You have to include an extra member into your class to record the
order. I have chosen to include a list, named "_fields", with all
attribute _names_. Storing the attribute name is guaranteed way to
keep the ordering even when a descendant override an attribute, or
when the user modify its value.

I have written a small package called GenericTemplates, that works all
the magic needed. It's the basis for a much more ambitious package for
'declarative-style' data structures using class statements. It handles
nested classes also, and keeps the ordering of all attributes that
inherit from a AbstractAttribute class (it includes nested classes
that inherit from GenericTemplate, and also OrderedAttributes and
TypedAttributes). I have a page for it in portuguese only at:

http://www.pythonbrasil.com.br/moin.cgi/TemplatesGen%E9ricos

The code is as follows -- still with debug code included, and lots of comments:

"""
metatemplate.py

Template class that can be used to write complex data structures using 
nested classes. Template classes can store other template classes (nested)
or user-defined attributes (typed or untyped). The original definition 
order information is preserved, allowing for true templating use for
applications such as html templates, data entry forms, and configuration 
files.

(c) 2004 Carlos Ribeiro
carribeiro at gmail.com
http:///pythonnotes.blogspot.com

"""

import sys
from inspect import isclass, isdatadescriptor
from types import StringType, IntType, FloatType, ListType
import itertools

#----------------------------------------------------------------------
# Debug constants. I don't intend to remove them, even from production
# code, but I intend to use the logging module to print the messages

debug_generic_attribute = 0
debug_typed_attribute = 0
debug_auto_instantiation = 0

#----------------------------------------------------------------------
# AbstractAttribute is the ancestor of all classes that can be used
# in the metacontainer framework.

class AbstractAttribute(object):
    pass

#----------------------------------------------------------------------
# GenericAttribute is the ancestor of all simple elements that are
# used as attributes of user defined Container subclasses
#
# GenericAttributes are simpler than full containers. They're both
# derived from the same AbstractAttribute class, but GenericAttributes
# have only a single value associated with them.
#
# When referred from a instance, the __get__ method returns the value
# associated with the attribute. If called from the class, the __get__
# method returns the property itself.

class GenericAttribute(AbstractAttribute):
    """ Generic attributes for generic containers """
    def __init__(self, default = None):
        self._seqno = next_attribute_id()
        self.value = default
    def __repr__(self):
        return "<Attr '%s'>" % (self.__class__.__name__)
    def __get__(self, instance, owner):
        if debug_generic_attribute:
            print "GET self:[%s], instance:[%s], owner:[%s]" % \
                  (self, instance, owner)
        if instance:
            attrdict = instance.__dict__.setdefault('__attr__', {})
            return attrdict.get(self.name, self.value)
        else:
            return owner
    def __set__(self, instance, value):
        if debug_generic_attribute:
            print "SET self:[%s], instance:[%s], value:[%s]" % \
                  (self, instance, value)
        attrdict = instance.__dict__.setdefault('__attr__', {})
        attrdict[self.name] = value

class TypedAttribute(GenericAttribute):
    """ Typed attributes for generic containers """
    def __init__(self, default = None, mytype = None):
        self._seqno = next_attribute_id()
        self.value = default
        if mytype:
            if isclass(mytype):
                self.mytype = mytype
            else:
                raise TypeError("Argument <mytype> expects None "
                      "or a valid type/class")
        else:
            self.mytype = type(default)
    def __repr__(self):
        return "<TypedAttr '%s':%s>" % \
               (self.__class__.__name__, self.mytype.__name__)
    def __get__(self, instance, owner):
        if debug_typed_attribute:
            print "GET self:[%s], instance:[%s], owner:[%s]" % \
                  (self, instance, owner)
        if instance:
            attrdict = instance.__dict__.setdefault('__attr__', {})
            return attrdict.get(self.name, self.value)
        else:
            return self.value
    def __set__(self, instance, value):
        if debug_typed_attribute:
            print "SET self:[%s], instance:[%s], value:[%s]" % \
                  (self, instance, value)
        if not isinstance(value, self.mytype):
            # if it's a string, tries to convert to the correct
            # target type (this is needed because most things read
            # from files will be strings anyway)
            if isinstance(value, StringType):
                value = self.mytype(value)
            else:
                raise TypeError, "Expected %s attribute" % \
                      self.mytype.__name__
        attrdict = instance.__dict__.setdefault('__attr__', {})
        attrdict[self.name] = value

#----------------------------------------------------------------------
# auxiliary functions

next_attribute_id = itertools.count().next

def getfields(dct):
    """
    takes a dictionary of class attributes and returns a decorated list
    containing all valid field instances and their relative position.

    """
    for fname, fobj in dct.items():
        if isinstance(fobj,GenericAttribute):
            yield (fobj._seqno, (fname, fobj))
        elif isclass(fobj) and issubclass(fobj,AbstractAttribute):
            yield (fobj._seqno, (fname, fobj))
        elif (fname[0] != '_'):
            # conventional attributes from basic types are just stored
            # as GenericAttributes, and put at the end of the list,
            # in alphabetical order
            if (isinstance(fobj,StringType) or
                isinstance(fobj,IntType) or
                isinstance(fobj,FloatType) or
                isinstance(fobj,ListType)):
                yield (sys.maxint, (fname, GenericAttribute(fobj)))
            else:
                yield (0, (fname, fobj))
        else:
            yield (0, (fname, fobj))

def makefieldsdict(dct, bases):
    # build the field list and sort it
    fields = list(getfields(dct))
    fields.sort()
    # undecorate the list and build a dict that will be returned later
    sorted_field_list = [field[1] for field in fields]
    field_dict = dict(sorted_field_list)
    # finds all attributes and nested classes that are containers
    attribute_list = [field for field in sorted_field_list
                      if (isinstance(field[1],AbstractAttribute) or
                          (isclass(field[1]) and
                           issubclass(field[1],AbstractAttribute)
                     ))]
    # check baseclasses for attributes inherited but not overriden
    # !!WARNING: this code does not checks correctly for multiple
    # base classes if there are name clashes between overriden
    # members. This is not recommended anyway.
    inherited = []
    for baseclass in bases:
        base_field_list = getattr(baseclass, '_fields', None)
        # looks for a valid _fields attribute in an ancestor
        if isinstance(base_field_list, ListType):
            fnames = [f[0] for f in attribute_list]
            for fname, fobj in base_field_list:
                # checks for overriden attributes
                if (fname in fnames):
                    # overriden - inherited list contains the new value
                    newobj = field_dict[fname]
                    inherited.append((fname, newobj))
                    # remove attribute and quick check field names list
                    attribute_list.remove((fname, field_dict[fname]))
                    fnames.remove(fname)
                else:
                    # copy the original entry into the inherited list
                    inherited.append((fname, fobj))
    field_dict['_fields'] = inherited + attribute_list
    return field_dict

#----------------------------------------------------------------------
# MetaTemplate metaclass
#
# Most of the hard work is done outside the class by the auxiliary
# functions makefieldsdict() and getfields()

class MetaTemplate(type):
    def __new__(cls, name, bases, dct):
        # creates the class using only the processed field list
        newdct = makefieldsdict(dct, bases)
        newclass = type.__new__(cls, name, bases, newdct)
        newclass._seqno = next_attribute_id()
        newclass.name  = name
        return newclass

#----------------------------------------------------------------------
# GenericTemplate superclass

class GenericTemplate(AbstractAttribute):
    __metaclass__ = MetaTemplate

    def __init__(self):
        """ instantiates all nested classes upon creation """

        # builds a copy of the field list. this is needed to allow
        # customizations of the instance not to be reflected in the
        # original class field list.
        self._fields = list(self.__class__._fields)

        # auto instantiates nested classes and attributes
        if debug_auto_instantiation:
            print "AutoInstantiation <%s>: fieldlist = %s" % \
                  (self.name, self._fields)
        for fname, fobj in self._fields:
            if isclass(fobj) and issubclass(fobj,Container):
                # found a nested class
                if debug_auto_instantiation:
                    print "AutoInstantiation <%s>: field[%s] is a "
                          "Container Subclass" % (self.name, fname)
                fobj = fobj()
                setattr(self, fname, fobj)
            elif isinstance(fobj, AbstractAttribute):
                # found an attribute instance
                if debug_auto_instantiation:
                    print "AutoInstantiation <%s>: field[%s] is an "
                          "Attribute Instance" % (self.name, fname)
                # removed: parent links are still being thought out,
                # and I'm not even sure if they're a good idea
                # setattr(fobj, 'parent', self)
                setattr(fobj, 'name', fname)
            else:
                if debug_auto_instantiation:
                    print "AutoInstantiation <%s>: field[%s] is "
                          "unknown" % (self.name, fname)

    def iterfields(self):
        for fname, fobj in self._fields:
            yield getattr(self, fname)

    def __repr__(self):
        return "<%s '%s'>" % (self.__class__.__name__, self.name,)

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Oct 18 20:05:51 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:05:51 -0700
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3244FD8@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Michael Hoffman wrote:
> Robert Brewer wrote:
> > 
> > What do you all think? I've been using a class-based 
> variant of this in
> > production code (business app) for six months now, and have found it
> > extremely helpful. I saw a pointer to itertools today and figured a
> > function-based version might be nice to include in that 
> module someday.
> 
> Could you give a real-world example of its use?

Sure. Here's a bit of presentation-layer logic from a webapp of mine.
The user checks a bunch of checkboxes on an HTML page to show which
staff members are working on a project on each day in the given range.
An example form:

Name    10/12 10/13 10/14 10/15 10/16
Bob      [ ]   [X]   [ ]   [X]   [ ]
Doug     [X]   [ ]   [X]   [X]   [ ]
Wendy    [ ]   [ ]   [ ]   [X]   [X]

In this case, there is already a set of persistent WorkDate objects;
when the user edits the form (even just one checkbox), you can:

a) destroy all the relevant previous WorkDate objects and make a new
set,
b) make horribly long control names using each object's ID (including
the blank ones!),
c) reuse the existing objects and rewrite the date and worker for each
one

Reuse is nice, but means you probably have to create new WorkDate
objects when you run out, and go through a formal destroy procedure if
you don't reuse them all. The warehouse function helps that out by
keeping track of the iteration (and on-the-fly object creation) for you:

parms = UI.requestParams
for worker in job.Worker():
    
    avail, rem = dejavu.warehouse(worker.dates(), WorkDate)
    
    for day in days:
        control_name = u'%s:%s' % (worker.ID, day.strftime('%m/%d/%Y'))
        if parms.has_key(control_name):
            # The appropriate checkbox was turned ON.
            # Reuse an existing WorkDate (or make a new one).
            wd = avail.next()
            wd.WorkerID = worker.ID
            wd.Date = day
            if not wd.sandbox:
                # The object is new. Make it persist in storage.
                UI.sandbox.memorize(wd)
    
    # Forget (destroy) any remaining workdate objects.
    for wd in rem:
        wd.forget()




Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From sstaats at questia.com  Mon Oct 11 11:43:10 2004
From: sstaats at questia.com (S. Staats)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 08:43:10 -0700
Subject: How does one keep python from printing newline at program exit?
Message-ID: <64cf9d00.0410110743.ec1920f@posting.google.com>

Good day, everbody.

Here is a simple program called test.py:
#!/usr/bin/python
print "No newline, please.",
# End of program

Here is what program does:
prompt> ./test.py
No newline, please.

Here is what I want the program to do:
prompt> ./test.py
No newline, please.prompt>

How can I get the python interpreter to not print a newline when it exits?

Thanks for your help!


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 11:05:16 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:05:16 -0400
Subject: __author__
In-Reply-To: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>
References: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <VtydnQODWZ6x78DcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

David Keeney wrote:
> I see this set (or similar) of variables in various modules I read. 
> They are found near the top of each module file, outside of any class
> or function definitions.
> 
> "
> __author__ = "Software Authors Name"
> __copyright__ = "Copyright (C) 2004 Author Name"
> __license__ = "Public Domain"
> __version__ = "1.0"
> "
> 
> What is the function of this set of variables?  I assume there are
> software products that use these, (Python itself, perhaps), that
> expect to find certain variables explained.
> 
> What are the expected variables, other than the ones listed above, and
> what software would I expect to use them?

IME, other than __version__, none of these are *widely* used,
nor are they necessary.

In any case, they are all just conventions, and there are NO
"expected variables" along the lines of what you're thinking,
and while there is probably some software that uses some
particular set of them, looking for such a thing just so
that you can throw a bunch of things like that at the top
of your modules, where they will never actually be used
(except for __version__), is a waste of time, IMHO.

*If* you want to write them that way, then use them in, say,
an About Dialog or when a "-h" option is specified, then go
ahead.  I personally use things like APP_AUTHOR and APP_COPYRIGHT
rather than the double-underscore convention, which in my
view makes them look like they are somehow "special" to
Python, causing just the sort of confusion that you have
faced here.  :-(

-Peter


From Anna at nospam.invalid  Sun Oct  3 00:52:45 2004
From: Anna at nospam.invalid (Ann)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 04:52:45 GMT
Subject: newbie permission problem
Message-ID: <wAL7d.99503$wV.12017@attbi_s54>

I am new to python. I have a small program that
deletes small jpeg files, but I am getting a
permission error, even though I am the owner of the
file and the directory has 777 permission. I have
WIN XP Pro. I have mks toolkit "ls" command.
Login name is "Philip"

-------------

36      45      border_l_r2_c3.gif is tiny      <- printed by program
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\test2.py", line 28, in ?
    os.remove(d) # delete the tiny files
OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'border_l_r2_c3.gif'

C:\>ls -ld . border_l_r2_c3.gif
drwxrwsrwx   1 Philip   None     0 Oct  2 23:40 .
-rwxrwxrwa   1 Philip   None   398 Oct  2 22:42 border_l_r2_c3.gif




From garabik at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Wed Oct 20 03:09:19 2004
From: garabik at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (Radovan Garabik)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 07:09:19 GMT
Subject: module to ping a remote computer
References: <1098167660.152175@news-1.nethere.net>
Message-ID: <2tmh8vF20qqlaU1@uni-berlin.de>

anonymous <somewhere at on_earth.in_space> wrote:
> Has anyone here created a module for pinging a remote computer via the ping
> command and displaying a green/red led light button on the local computer
> depending upon the response back?  This would be a very simple automatic
> monitor.
> 


Jeremy Hylton, jeremy @ cnri.reston.va.us did develop a ping class.
I have a copy of it because I wanted to use it in some other project,
but never got enough time to finish it. I can send you a copy if you
want.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Oct  8 12:04:24 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 12:04:24 -0400
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <IqrZBls/KPJf089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Egbert Bouwman <egbert.list at hccnet.nl> wrote:
>A file is too large to fit into memory.
>The first line must receive a special treatment, because
>it contains  information about how to handle the rest of the file.
>
>Of course it is not difficult to test if you are reading the first line
>or another one, but it hurts my feelings to do a test which by definition
>succeeds at the first record, and never afterwards.
>Any suggestions ?

        f = file("lines.txt", "rt")
        first_line_processing (f.readline())
        for line in f:
            line_processing (line)

ought to work.

        Regards.        Mel.


From nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net  Wed Oct  6 16:57:56 2004
From: nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net (Nicola Larosa)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 22:57:56 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162B500.6080209@sympatico.ca>
	<mailman.4351.1096990275.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ck1m8j$chc$2@newsreader.mailgate.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> ...it sounds like Python has most of what I want (though not all).

That which it doesn't have, you'll learn to "unwant" it soon. ;-)

- -- 
Nicola Larosa - nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net

Python gives you enough rope to hang yourself, but you have to know where
to look. Its land has a dearth of trees, branches or posts to use the rope
to actually hang yourself. And the landscape is so beautiful we don't even
notice most of the time. :) -- Chris on comp.lang.python, July 2004


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFBZFxYXv0hgDImBm4RAjxKAJ4xY+H7AOkHmucJ1dZWyofndAt3TwCeOjGe
s8WXvvy9aiRqyUWrYIwWIMU=
=1P1R
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From dw at botanicus.net  Sat Oct 23 10:36:02 2004
From: dw at botanicus.net (David Wilson)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:36:02 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <jtidnZlHj6049OfcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>	<QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>	<mailman.5357.1098540970.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jtidnZlHj6049OfcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <417A6C52.2020709@botanicus.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:

>> In the context of the subject, we are discussing here a replacement 
>> ConfigParser. Any implementation of attribute access would amount to a 
>> possibly regression in functionality and more incompatibility with how 
>> Microsoft did it, as keys may be duplicate in .INI land.

> So to recap, even though I might believe it's a good idea
> *for me*, in a particular application which I have in mind
> and which you know nothing about, you believe that I should
> not use such an approach, in my own code, on my own application.
> Or at least you would say that I'm committing some sort of
> really bad programming mistake by doing so.  Have I got that
> right?

No.

I'm not sure how you took what I said to mean the above, as I have never 
referred to your style of code or anything else to do with you. To 
reiterate infinitely, I am referring to a configuration file parser. In 
particular, the one present in the standard library which presents an 
interface to Microsoft-style .INI files.

In that parser, __getattr__ cannot be applied cleanly without adding 
nonstandard semantics to the returned attribute - either discard data, 
or return multiple items of a surprising type - a list at best.


> Or was it just that *you* don't like this pattern of access
> (in which case I'd suggest that you don't have to use it,
> since the dictionary approach is provided as well).

I am interested only in providing a correct and clean interface to a 
very simple piece of functionality. I am happy to say that anyone that 
uses __getattr__ for .INI files should be shot. If that includes you, it 
would be a sad loss..


  > For me, replace "confobj" with "config", representing the
> "configuration information" of the program, and in that case
> "category" bears a clear relation to it.

NAME
     ConfigParser - Configuration file parser.

The 'config' object you refer to does not appear to be implemented by 
the ConfigParser module.


   Furthermore, I have
> *no duplicate keys*, so I really would like to use the much
> simpler form of access "config.logging.maxfilesize" or some
> such.
> 
> If I had only a "confobj" of your variety, which provided *only*
> the dictionary interface, I would be sorely tempted just to read
> in all the keys and store them in my own "config" object, which
> would then be used as I mentioned above.  I'd really rather not
> go to that extra effort.

Then join the effort to create a new configuration system, *do not* 
pollute ConfigParser. Again I point at the subject line and the footer 
of my previous post.


> I think this is a case of you imagining only one style of
> access and application, while there are other scenarios where
> other forms of access are equally appropriate *or better*.
> Nobody is forcing you to use the other method though.

No, I am trying to defend the cleanliness of a very simple class for 
reading a configuration file, not representing configuration data, or 
acting as a mapping or transparent proxy for the items present in a 
configuration.


David.


From spamtrap at library.lspace.org.invalid  Tue Oct 12 09:45:45 2004
From: spamtrap at library.lspace.org.invalid (Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:45:45 -0300
Subject: EVIL AMERICAN GOVT (aka FBI) is full of SADISTS and PERVERTS
References: <11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416bee19$3$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>

In <11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0 at posting.google.com>, on 10/10/2004
   at 07:11 AM, vickyp679 at yahoo.com (vicky) said:

>Newsgroups:
>comp.lang.pl1,comp.lang.postscript,comp.lang.prolog,comp.lang.python,comp.lang.rexx
>Subject: EVIL AMERICAN GOVT (aka FBI) is full of SADISTS and
>PERVERTS

What does this garbage have to do with any of those news groups?

>I am not a muslim, I don't have even a single muslim friend, I am
>not a member of any religious organization,

Nu, so by you it would be OK to persecute someone for his religion?


>FBI has been MENTALLY TORTURING me with 24X7 surveillance for the
>last three years inside and outside my apartment with video
>surveillance devices and motion sensors around my apartment, my
>phone has been tapped, my web surfing is being monitored all the
>time for the last three years, my emails are being monitored, gps
>vehicle tracking devices and voice amplification devices have been
>placed in my car and undercover FBI agents have followed me to
>restaurants, grocery stores, malls, movie theatres, banks and even
>barber shops etc

They have my sympathy. Three years on the kook squad is too much for
any man.

I can get you a good price on purple cloths.

-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT  <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action.  I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail.  Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me.  Do not
reply to spamtrap at library.lspace.org



From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Tue Oct 12 18:19:59 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:19:59 +0100
Subject: proposition for syntax for initialisation of multidimensional
 lists
In-Reply-To: <416c465f$1@news.broadpark.no>
References: <416c465f$1@news.broadpark.no>
Message-ID: <ckhlam$6ii$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Nils Grimsmo wrote:

> i always have trouble explaining why creation of multidimensional lists 
> is not as straight forward as it could be in python.

Maybe because that is not really a sensible thing to do with the list 
data structure, which can change in length after instantiation?

>  >>> [0] * (2,3,4)
> [[[0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0]], [[0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 
> 0], [0, 0, 0, 0]]]
 >
 > [SNIP]
> 
> what do you think?

I think I will continue doing this:

 >>> import numarray
 >>> numarray.zeros((2,3,4))
array([[[0, 0, 0, 0],
         [0, 0, 0, 0],
         [0, 0, 0, 0]],

        [[0, 0, 0, 0],
         [0, 0, 0, 0],
         [0, 0, 0, 0]]])
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From andrea.valle at unito.it  Sat Oct 30 02:51:23 2004
From: andrea.valle at unito.it (andrea valle)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:51:23 +0200
Subject: names of parameters as string
In-Reply-To: <291020042102228624%JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom@no.spam.net>
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
	<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>
	<m31xfh8uhy.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>
	<mailman.5663.1099065452.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<291020042102228624%JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom@no.spam.net>
Message-ID: <1CC54D90-2A40-11D9-A5B8-0003939C968C@unito.it>

Thanks to all for the replies.
Now, sorry, something related.
Suppose I have a string and I'd like to create a variable with its name.
How can I do that?

I tried to create the variable text assigning to it the value "text" 
with this:
 >>> eval("text = \"text\"")

But it raises an error.

Thanks as usual

Best

-a-




On 30 Oct 2004, at 05:59, Jean Brouwers wrote:

>
>
> Take a look at the getargspec() function in the inspect module.  It
> returns a 4-tuple and the first item of that tuple is a list of the
> parameter names of a function or method.
>
> <pre>
>   import inspect
>   def foo(p1, p2):
>     pass
>   print inspect.getargspec(foo)
>
> results in:
>
>   (['p1', 'p2'], None, None, None)
>
> </pre>
>
> The second item is the name of the *args argument, the third is the
> name of the **kwds argument and the last item is a tuple of the values
> of the kwds args.
>
> More details in
>
> <http://docs.python.org/lib/inspect-classes-functions.html>
>
> and on page 381 of the (outstanding, IMO) book "Python in a Nutshell",
> 1st edition.
>
>
> /Jean Brouwers
>  ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.
>
>
>>>>> def foo( foo_param1, foo_param2):
>
>
> In article <mailman.5663.1099065452.5135.python-list at python.org>,
> andrea valle <andrea.valle at unito.it> wrote:
>
>> Hi to all,
>> I'd like to access the parameter list of a function (or better of a
>> method) in order to generate GUI elements.
>> That is.
>> If I have this:
>>
>>>>> def foo( foo_param1, foo_param2):
>>     print foo_param
>>
>> I'd like to have something like:
>>
>>>>> print foo.param_list
>>>>> 'foo_param1', 'foo_param2'
>>
>> My idea is to use the foo_params strings in Tkinter as text for Label
>> and as variables for Entries.
>>
>> What have I to do?
>>
>> Thanks a lot as usual
>>
>> Best
>>
>> -a-
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> For your security, this mail has been scanned and protected by Inflex
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facolt? di Scienze della Formazione
Universit? degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle at unito.it



From dgargan at sbcglobal.net  Wed Oct 20 21:57:23 2004
From: dgargan at sbcglobal.net (digidalmation)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:57:23 GMT
Subject: mod_python apache configuration issues
In-Reply-To: <cl347b$es3$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
References: <JEHcd.18465$Qv5.4308@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>
	<cl347b$es3$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <7IEdd.20327$Qv5.18051@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>

David Fraser wrote:
> digidalmation wrote:
> 
>> Hello all.  I've been trying to get my linux server to run mod_python.
>> It's a Mandrake 10 linux box, and apache/mod_python are installed from 
>> rpms.
>> apache2-mod_python-2.0.48_3.1.3-1mdk
>> apache2-2.0.48-6mdk
>>
>>
>> The rpm installed the python module as:
>> /usr/lib/apache2-extramodules/mod_python.so
>>
>> And added a config file for apache:
>> /etc/httpd/conf.d/16_mod_python.conf
>>
>> The apache config files contained the following before my modifications:
>> <IfDefine HAVE_PYTHON>
>>   <IfModule !mod_python.c>
>>     LoadModule python_module    extramodules/mod_python.so
>>   </IfModule>
>> </IfDefine>
>> <IfModule mod_python.c>
>> </IfModule>
>>
>> Now after reading the docs installed into /usr/share/doc for mod_python
>> and going through the directions at python.org, I've also changed the
>> config file to add a few lines to one of the directives:
>>
>> <Directory /var/www/html>
>>     Options -Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews
>>     AllowOverride All
>>     AddHandler mod_python .py
>>     PythonHandler mptest
>>     PythonDebug On
>> </Directory>
>>
>> Now when I put the url into a browser:
>> http://myserver.mydomain.com/mptest.py
>>
>> I get a popup from the browser because it doesn't know how to handle
>> mptest.py, and it asks what you want to do with the file (open it with
>> an application, save it to disk, etc).  I can choose to open the file
>> with a text editor, and all it shows is the text "hello world".
>>
>> That's the output of the mptest.py script....  apache isn't feeding the
>> browser the code from the mptest.py, only the output.  (Otherwise when I
>> open it in a text editor I'd see the entire mptest.py script.
>>
>> Contents of the mptest.py script:
>> from mod_python import apache
>>
>> def handler(req):
>>         req.write("Hello World!")
>>         return apache.OK
>>
>> I'm not a python developer, but have been working with Linux and Apache
>> for a number of years.  I'm not sure where to go from here.  It appears
>> that the script gets compiled - there is a mptest.pyc file in the
>> directory now.  Why is it sending my browser the mptest.py file with the
>>  stdout of the script?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.  Any help on this is appreciated.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
> 
> This is working properly, all you want to do is set the content type so 
> that your browser can understand it:
> req.content_type = "text/plain"
> or something like that should do it.
> 
> David

David, you steered me in the right direction!  I just added this to my 
apache config file, and voila... it works.

AddType text/plain .py

Many thanks David.

Dave


From greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com  Fri Oct 29 15:44:37 2004
From: greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:44:37 -0500
Subject: Collating Text and Images
Message-ID: <006f01c4bdef$b99464c0$054b12ac@D18SYX41>

Steve writes:
The ReportLab open source kit is well capable of doing this, and will make
your reports look better as well, as long as PDF is an acceptable output
format.

Greg replies:

Indeed, the reportlab toolkit kicks butt!.  I downloaded it and in less than
4 hours I was showing off the proof-of-concept to my coworkers.  The merging
of the two files is simple (though we are doing some manipulations which are
not) and I am creating pdf files that may allow us to stop printing the
reports off altogether (nearly 1000 pages per day).

Thanks, everyone, for the great suggestions!

Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.



From pmaupin at speakeasy.net  Sun Oct 31 00:34:56 2004
From: pmaupin at speakeasy.net (Patrick Maupin)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 21:34:56 -0700
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>	<mailman.5625.1098987033.5135.python-list@python.org>	<fr2852-cj5.ln1@lairds.us>
	<mailman.5639.1099000471.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <653b7547.0410302034.58737996@posting.google.com>

kosh <kosh at aesaeion.com> wrote:

<a lot of good stuff about making Python faster>

In addition to your points and Alex's additions, I would add (as part
of your step 4): To make Python faster (drumroll...) CACHE
EVERYTHING!!!

The concept of caching goes by various names (e.g. memoize) depending
on the exact form it takes, but in any case it is usually _much_
easier to do simply and correctly in Python than in almost any other
language, and can sometimes produce dramatic results.

As an example, I wrote an assembler/linker combination in Python (with
a little bit of Pyrex and a tiny bit of C for the scanner).  When I
started out, it was much slower than the C legacy system it replaced. 
Now, it is much faster, by a factor of around 4x for a full build.  It
is also much nicer, catches more errors, has a more flexible syntax,
etc.

In C, there is no way I would have been able to get the semantics
right for usefully caching the results of partial evaluation of
include files, but in Python it is a snap.  (Note that I did not
assert that it is not possible to do this in C, merely that _I_ would
have been incapable of doing it in the time I would have been willing
to spend on the task.)  I also cache the object files (which are
merely pickles) in preparation for doing a link, the source modules in
preparation for doing a listing output (which can be done as a
relative listing before the link, or an absolute listing after the
link), and anything else I can think of.

The Python version occupies a working set of around 75MB when it runs,
compared to about 4MB for the C version.  Good programmers have always
known about time vs. memory tradeoffs, but the informed use of Python
in conjunction with the staggering amount of memory available on
today's average PC can produce truly startling results.

Regards,
Pat


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Fri Oct 15 19:11:11 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:11:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>
	<416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<mailman.4998.1097833203.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekjz3lly.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp6fb$gvi$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<du7sm8f24h4.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp90u$s9l$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<mailman.5023.1097870716.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckplef$99o$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Stephen Waterbury <golux at comcast.net> pisze:

>> Windows versions are named, royalty-free, commercial licenses. 
>> [... long, tortuous explanation ...] Hallo, any lawyers around here?
> 
> As he said, "way too messy"!  ;)

I am not sure if Detlev can pose such exceptions... Well, Qt-and-around
is not an easy shoot. ;)

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From vegard at mail.com  Wed Oct  6 10:46:34 2004
From: vegard at mail.com (Vegard Bakke)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 07:46:34 -0700
Subject: XSL transform with Python
Message-ID: <33a013af.0410060646.3a821dc7@posting.google.com>

Hi!

All I want to do is transforming an XML into another XML using an XSLT
stylesheet.

>From what I have found on the web/usenet there are several xml/xsl
libraries/wrapper, all in various stages of alpha/beta/stalled
releases. (Sablotron, Sab-pyth, PySablot, libxml2, libxslt are some of
those I found.)

The script will be running in a production environment and must
therefore be stable above all. Alphas and Betas are not that welcome.

Can anyone give me a pointer to what module to use, what is stable,
and what is and be stay standard for Python?


Regards,
Vegard

Don't reply to the address above, It's a spam trap and won't be read
-- 
My spelling is Wobbly.  It's good spelling but it Wobbles, 
and the letters get in the wrong places. 
                                           Winnie the Pooh


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Wed Oct 27 10:40:53 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:40:53 -0400
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <_-adnfiRi4tmPOLcRVn-1A@powergate.ca>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<2u9hklF24n4b1U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<T82dnedQ8YiFBuLcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>
	<z6Nfd.755$K7.388@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<_-adnfiRi4tmPOLcRVn-1A@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <Wtednaa0QZnoLuLcRVn-gg@giganews.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:


> I haven't been trying to keep up to date on this issue, but these
> guys seem to feel there is something along those lines that can be done: 
> http://creativecommons.org/  (Specifically, 

IMO the problem with the licenses (the CC is no help in that)
is that the terms are to vague. It is very easy to define
what it means to give away all rights, but for anything more
complicated it bogs down quickly:

What is a derivative work? When is attribution properly done?
What is a commercial use? What is fair use?

Istvan.


From theller at python.net  Tue Oct 12 04:24:40 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:24:40 +0200
Subject: Windows XP Balloon Tips?
References: <1d6cdae3041011094946722f33@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4714.1097514475.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncmlmfg.fp.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<Xns958065DCDDA60cpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
Message-ID: <vfdg8htj.fsf@python.net>

Harald Massa <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> writes:

> Dave Benjamin,
>
>> Just out of curiosity, is there a way to do this also from PythonWin
>> (without having ctypes installed)?
>
> the game is called "AnimateWindow".
> I posted a ctypes-programm to pywin32 mailinglist two weeks ago. It just 
> was not robust enough to go into the wiki.

You forgot to keep a reference to the callback function - a very common
error.  I hope to make this much easier in the next ctypes version,
where ctypes does this itself automatically.

>
> With build 203 Python win32 extension by Mark Hammond also wrap the 
> AnimateWindow function (on XP), but they came out yesterday so I just read 
> the change notes that they do; did not find a demo. So... please download 
> pywin32 and try :)))

Thomas


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Oct 12 16:26:52 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 16:26:52 -0400
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<416b9eed$0$11828$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<mailman.4742.1097573758.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416bd75f$0$10909$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <ckhemc$qtb$1@panix2.panix.com>

BTW, Nicolas, it'd be nice if you did not post quoted-printable.  I'm
leaving the crud in so you can see it.

In article <416bd75f$0$10909$afc38c87 at news.easynet.fr>,
Nicolas Lehuen <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote:
>
>Yeah I know this. My point was that when benchmarking single-threaded =
>programs vs multithreaded ones, you have to choose the kind of program =
>you use : CPU-intensive vs IO-intensive. On a single CPU machine, =
>CPU-intensive program will always run better in a single-threaded model. =
>But of course, if you have 2 procs and a nice threading model, you can =
>even do 2 CPU-intensive tasks simultaneously, which Python cannot do if =
>I've understood everything so far.

Python itself cannot, but there's nothing preventing anyone from writing
numeric extensions that release the GIL.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From psuspam at grinchcentral.com  Mon Oct  4 16:14:41 2004
From: psuspam at grinchcentral.com (Erik Rose)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:14:41 -0400
Subject: ActivePython/IIS Request Concurrency
In-Reply-To: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F28@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F28@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <069C3857-1642-11D9-8DF7-000A95B6C878@grinchcentral.com>

> It's sufficient. :) Check out 
> http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/082201-1.shtml for a good intro 
> to using pywin32 for ASP.

Interestingly, that page espouses ActivePython, which I'm beginning to 
suspect is nothing more than a thin candy coating around pywin32. Do 
you know whether this is so?

> FWIW, I don't use ASP for anything more than an envelope for "real" 
> Python scripts. [...] Such a scheme can keep you from tearing your 
> hair out trying to mix Python indentation rules with HTML's lack of 
> such.

I hope to make it to that point eventually. Right now, I have >15K 
lines of VBScript that are going to have to interact peaceably with the 
new Python stuff. (This is why I can't even consider CGI.) I hope to do 
a bunch of inversion-of-control in Python and shove the VBScript out 
more and more into peripheral utility functions, where it can be 
translated at leisure.

So, just to confirm, you ran a few instances of my original test 
scripts concurrently, and they completed almost simultaneously? Note 
that your machine may be faster than mine. Does the busy-wait loop take 
at least several seconds to run? If not, it would be hard to tell if 
the instances of it were running serially or not. If they are indeed 
concurrent, I'll be in touch soon to harrass you about your IIS 
settings. :-D

Excitedly,
Erik Rose
Programmer/Analyst
Pennsylvania State University



From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Wed Oct 20 15:46:35 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 19:46:35 GMT
Subject: Final thoughts SMTP
Message-ID: <20041020154635.25562.00002510@mb-m29.aol.com>

To clear up something which Gerhard advised me on regarding the login method. 
I've found that AOL's smtp server is unique compared to every other one I've
seen.  If you type auth plain, it will prompt you with: user:, then password:,
that is why I did the s.docmd thing since AOL is daring to be different, I did
find that if you went  with auth login the s.login would work then, you just
had to give the auth login cmd first.....go figure.  At school I actually am
able to directly get to smtp servers and am not rerouted to that nefarious aol
server, and there I found that s.login works perfectly on every email server I
use, except AOL....go figure, and then it will if you just do it the way they
want you too.  Thanks for all the help on this guys, pretty much everything I
was told was dead on, AOL just has a psychotic way of doing things.


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 11:26:59 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:26:59 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4162BD43.4050104@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>I agree with you that it does, though not as well as you appear to
>believe (e.g. no `` 2 + "23" '' abominations in Ruby, either).  Perl
>might be better still for what he's asking -- said abomination does
>work, he gets to mess with syntax (google for lingua latina perligata),
>and so forth.
>
>
>Alex
>  
>
Perl is a mess.  Ruby is a mess.  Python is generally clean and I love 
the whitespace.


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Oct 25 23:32:35 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:32:35 -0400
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
In-Reply-To: <ffd90607.0410251420.15c038cb@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<468v42-c23.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	<ffd90607.0410251420.15c038cb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <WZ6dnefmlo_WWODcRVn-ig@giganews.com>

Samir Patel wrote:

> I hope in future people will be more respectful to all those heros who
> works so much for python community.

Hero or not remains to be seen, but there is nothing
wrong in voicing a contradictory opinion, and
such opinions should never be put down with *patriotic*
arguments as the one above.

Istvan.



From mirko-individual at zeibig.net  Fri Oct  1 13:51:40 2004
From: mirko-individual at zeibig.net (Mirko Zeibig)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 19:51:40 +0200
Subject: recursing through files in a folder
In-Reply-To: <Ke-dneAIcYM7-sDcRVn-gA@comcast.com>
References: <df19e346.0410010520.2fb318d9@posting.google.com>
	<Ke-dneAIcYM7-sDcRVn-gA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <2s5m32F149n27U1@uni-berlin.de>

Larry Bates said the following on 10/01/2004 04:20 PM:
> Scott Carlson wrote:
> 
>>New to Python.  Very new.
>>
>>I need to pass a parameter to the program I create that points to a
>>folder.  (How are params passed in?)
>>
>>Then, I need to be able to scroll through each file in the folder,
>>looking for files with a particular naming convention.
>>
>>What is the best way to be able to look at each file in a folder and
>>decide if I wish to use that one, and then go to the next file?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Scott
> 
> 
> Use getopt to pick up the root directory from call line
> Use os.path.walk to walk each of the files/directories
> Use glob.glob to get a list of files that match

I'd opt for `optparse` instead of `getopt` ;-). Since Python 2.3 it's 
included in the distribution, for older version search for `optik`, 
which is the old name of `optparse`.

Regards
Mirko


From abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Thu Oct 14 09:28:37 2004
From: abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Ajay)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:28:37 +1000
Subject: UDP server socket
In-Reply-To: <XbadnXX6vvm75PPcRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.4934.1097757424.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<XbadnXX6vvm75PPcRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1097760517.416e7f0523337@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>

Quoting Peter L Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>:

> Ajay wrote:
> > whats the maximum number of datagrams that can queue up on a UDP
> server
> > socket? or is that system dependent?
> > i have some code that iteratively handles datagrams, and while testing
> it,
> > i noticed that it responds to at most 3 datagrams (i tried sending 4,
> 6, 8
> > and 10 datagrams / second)
> > is that a system dependent feature or can i change that (i didn't see
> > anything in the manual)
>
> I don't believe (though I'm not an expert in UDP) that you can
> "queue up" UDP packets at all.  At least, there are explicitly
> NO guarantees as to whether any given packet will even make it
> through the network, and I doubt any system provides explicit
> guarantees as to how many UDP packets can be handled if there
> is a backlog.  If you are looking for reliable communications,
> that's what TCP is for... otherwise you have to handle missed
> or duplicated packets yourself.
>
> -Peter
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

i am afraid i have to stick with UDP and reliability is no issue. i used
the word queue but what i really meant was buffer and what i really want
to know is how many packets get buffered (the ones that make through).
i dont believe that when i send 10 packets, 7 get lost and 3 make it
through. Since when i send 3, i always get all 3 (well except perhaps once
or twice) but i can never get any more than 3. i want to confirm if this is
a buffering issue
in my code i do something like
while 1:
	data, address = self.UDPserversocket.recvfrom(1024)
        #do a lot of processing which usually takes between 4-8 seconds

my question is whether the socket buffers incoming packets, what is the
size of the buffer and is there any way of increasing it.
If not, a solution may be to carry the processing in another thread, but
thats going to increase the overhead (the app. is for a PDA).



----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Oct 29 07:42:24 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:42:24 -0500
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
Message-ID: <16770.11424.859808.183866@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> I want to be able to create a persistent connection between an
    >> XML-RPC client and server... i.e. I want to be able to login once,
    >> carry out a number of calls and then logout rather than send login
    >> info for every call.

    >> Is there a way to do this with the xml-rpc code in the standard
    >> library?

Look at the multicall capability of the xmlrpclib library.  It may do what
you want.

Skip


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Wed Oct 20 12:52:24 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:52:24 +0200
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
 exception
In-Reply-To: <4176836E.4000507@holdenweb.com>
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
	<cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<4176836E.4000507@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <cl64rp$4kt$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Steve Holden schrieb:
> A possible enhancement which might meet your arguments would allow the 
> user to provide EITHER a tuple of arguments OR a set of keyword 
> arguments. LogRecord could then say:
> 
> if args:
>     msg = msg % args
> else:
>     msg = msg % kwargs
> 
> and you would then be able to make a call like
> 
> logging.log(logging.FATAL, 'Test is %(test)s', **values)
> 
> But with the code you presented, it's no use bleating that "values *is* 
> a mapping". While this is certainly true, values was unfortunately just 
> the only element in the args tuple, and it's the args tuple that's 
> currently used for substituion. I presume the patch you sent Vijay will 
> do something similar?


What it does is: check if there is only one element in args and then 
unpack it.

This leads to three different cases how
msg = msg % args
is evaluated:

1) the tuple is longer than one, i.e. args actually is a tuple
	=> current beahaviour

2) the tuple contained one element, but not a dict, i.e. args is a value
	=> replace the single template in msg with that value
	=> current behaviour

3) the tuple contained one element, which was a dict, i.e. args is a dict
	=> replace the dictionary templates in msg with the values in args

I find this very much the expected behaviour, which when used by actual 
code looks like this:

log("message %s %d", 1, 2)
or
log("message %(a) %(b)", {'a':1, 'b':2})


I find it absolutely wrong if the second raises an exception. That would 
differ from any other common use case of dictionaries in Python.

Even this works:
log("message %s", {'a':1, 'b':2})

So the only (!) change is the additional support for dictionary arguments. 
No drawbacks.

I think, this is totally the right thing to do.

Stefan


From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 19:08:01 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 16:08:01 -0700
Subject: tokenise a string
References: <86brfcq9nk.fsf@mut.mteege.de> <2sqeabF1nrio1U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0410111508.3edbde0b@posting.google.com>

The tokenize module is only useful for parsing Python code.  That
said, reading the code of tokenize.py might be helpful in writing your
own tokenizer.

Look into the re (regular expression) module, or PLY or Spark if you
need more sophisticated parsers.

Also check out SQLObject (http://sqlobject.org/) --- it makes SQL
almost pleasant =)

Cousin Stanley <cousinstanley at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2sqeabF1nrio1U1 at uni-berlin.de>...
> On 2004-10-09, Matthias Teege <matthias-dated at mteege.de> wrote:
> > Moin,
> > ....
> > So I must parse the input, build tokens and map the fieldnames. 
> >
> > Is there a special modul which I can use 
> > or are the standard string functions adequate?
> >
> 
> Matthias .... 
> 
>   You might check the  tokenize  module ....
>   
>       import tokenize
>       
>       help( tokenize )
>       
>   I only know of it, but have never used it myself ....


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 17 02:29:36 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 06:29:36 GMT
Subject: How to get the size of a file?
References: <u0o3n09r9ak5cs0p8k88bbknf3nkqmaplu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4171fdec.13660092@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 03:13:46 GMT, User <1 at 2.3> wrote:

>Anyone have ideas which os command could be used to get the size of a
>file without actually opening it?  My intention is to write a script
>that identifies duplicate files with different names.  I have no
>trouble getting the names of all the files in the directory using the
>os.listdir() command, but that doesn't return the file size.  In order
>to be identical, files must be the same size, so I want to use file
>size as the first criteria, then, if they are the same size, actually
>open them up and compare the contents.  
>
>I have written such a script in the past, but had to resort to
>something like:
>
>os.system('dir *.* >> trash.txt')
>
>The next step was then to open up 'trash.txt', and piece together the
>information I need compare file sizes.  The problems with this
>approach are that it is very platform dependent (worked on WIN 95, but
>don't know what else it will work on) and 8.3 filename limitations
>that apply within this environment.  That is the reason I'm looking
>for some other command to obtain file size before the files are ever
>opened.

This should list duplicate files in the specified directory:
You can hack to suit. Not very tested. Just what you see ;-)
------------------------------------------------
# get_dupes.py
import os, md5
def get_dupes(thedir):
    finfo = {}
    for f in os.listdir(thedir):
        if os.path.isfile(f):
            finfo.setdefault(os.path.getsize(f), []).append(f)

    result = []
    for size, flist in finfo.items():
        if len(flist)>1:
            dupes = {}
            for name in flist:
                dupes.setdefault(md5.new(open(name, 'rb').read()).hexdigest(),[]).append(name)
            for digest, names in dupes.items():
                if len(names)>1: result.append((size, digest, names))
    return result

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    try:
        dupes = get_dupes(sys.argv[1])
        if dupes:
            print
            print '%8s %32s %s' % ('size','md5 digest','files with the given size, digest')
            print '%8s %32s %s' % ('----','-'*32      ,'---------------------------------')
            for duped in dupes:
                print '%8s %32s %s' % duped
        else:
            print 'No duplicate files in %r' % sys.argv[1]
    except:
        raise SystemExit, 'Usage: python get_dupes.py directory'
-------------------------------------------

(I was surprised at the amount of duplicated stuff ;-)

[23:23] C:\pywk\clp>python get_dupes.py .

    size                       md5 digest files with the given size, digest
    ---- -------------------------------- ---------------------------------
       0 d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e ['z3', 'zero_len.py']
     111 ea70a0f814917ef8861bebc085e5e7d0 ['MyConsts.py', 'MyConsts.py~']
     163 f8e4add20e45bb253bd46963f25a7057 ['ramb.txt', 'rambxx.txt']
    4096 d96633a4b58522ce5787ef80a18e9c7b ['yyy2', 'yyy3']
     786 05956208d5185259b47362afcf1812fd ['startmore.py', 'startmore.py~']
     851 3845f161fa93cbb9119c16fc43e7b62a ['quadratic.py', 'quadratic.py~']
    1536 72f5c05b7ea8dd6059bf59f50b22df33 ['virtest.txt', '~DF30EC.tmp']
    1028 fbedc511f9556a8a1dc2ecfa3d859621 ['PaulMoore.py', 'PaulMoore.py~']
    1515 568f9732866a9de698732616ae4f9c3b ['loopbreak.py', 'loopbreak.py~']
    1662 f54414637ed420fe61b78eeba59737b7 ['for_grodrigues.py', 'for_grodrigues.r1.py']
    1702 23fa57926e7fcf2487943acb10db7e2a ['bitfield.py', 'bitfield.py~', 'packbits.py']
    3765 e69bf6b018ba305cc3e190378f93e421 ['pythonHi.gif', 'showgif.gif']
    5874 bae87bbed53c1e6908bb5c37db9c4292 ['testyenc.py', 'testyenc.py~']
    3990 4a5096efaf136f901603a2e1be850eb3 ['pns.py', 'pns.r1.py']

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From charleshixsn at earthlink.net  Mon Oct 25 14:48:39 2004
From: charleshixsn at earthlink.net (Charles Hixson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:48:39 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <417D4A87.1020405@earthlink.net>

Peter Otten wrote:

>Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
>>in site-packages) in an application.
>>    
>>
>
>I'd say everything that uses a GPL'd module is derived work and must also be
>GPL'd. It doesn't matter how you distribute it. If the module is under the
>LGPL you could use it in a closed source app but must make available any
>changes to the original module.
>
>Peter
>
>  
>
I don't think that's correct.  If you distribute the source, then I 
don't think that you need to GPL the code (and if you GPL the code, you 
*must* distribute the source anyway...so....).

The thing is, the source, although it depends on the GPL code to execute 
is not itself linked to the GPL code.  It tells you (in the import 
statement) that you'll need it, but that's a different matter.  You 
might just want to study how some part of it worked.

I doubt that this is much help to you though.  Usually when people ask 
such a question it's because they intend to distribute a closed source 
version, and I don't think you can do that.  (But don't take my advice 
as a certainty.  I'm quite biased in favor of the GPL.)



From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Fri Oct 15 15:39:10 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:39:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>
	<416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<mailman.4998.1097833203.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekjz3lly.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp6fb$gvi$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<du7sm8f24h4.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <ckp90u$s9l$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> pisze:

>    Jarek> Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> pisze:
> 
>    >> This Qt licensing thing is way too messy, I'm not surprised
>    >> that so many developers are doing their best to avoid it...
> 
>    Jarek> No, it isn't. It's GNU GPL. What do you consider unclear?
> 
> Isn't it just the Unix/X11 version that is GPL/QPL dual licensed?

Yes, it is. In case of Eric3 too.

Windows versions are named, royalty-free, commercial licenses. If you
have one, you can distribute Qt runtime dll with your programs, but not
the source. PyQt follows this rule and on Windows you need (1)
commercial license for Qt and (2) commercial license for PyQt. Hovewer,
if you have both, you can distribute you program on Windows as free
software. But as you may have read in GNU Public License, if you link to
non-free library, you must give special permission in your license
statement (as in the case of Psi Jabber client). Since Eric3 is GPL-ed
software, only Detlev Offenbach can give this permission, but he states
in README, that "building for personal purposes is permitted, but
distribution is not". IANAL, but I think GNU GPL does not allow such
restriction. Hallo, any lawyers around here?

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From see at below.invalid  Sat Oct  2 03:00:35 2004
From: see at below.invalid (Paul Foley)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:00:35 +1200
Subject: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow
	after an exception is raised)
References: <4b39d922.0410011152.31fb1dae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2vfdtr4do.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>

On 1 Oct 2004 12:52:38 -0700, Lonnie Princehouse wrote:

> In a recent post, Michele Simionato asked about resumable (or
> re-entrant) exceptions, the basic idea being that when raised and
> uncaught, these exceptions would only propagate backwards through a
> limited number of frames before being implicitly ignored.  Alex

What a strange idea.

> Nonetheless, I tried to write some demo code that implemented
> resumable exceptions, but ran face-first into a brick wall:  I
> couldn't find any way to manipulate the call stack (to execute code in
> a frame other than the current one)

The mistake you're making is to conflate Python's exceptions with the
resumable exceptions you're trying to implement.  Python exceptions
are more like Common Lisp's catch/throw mechanism (sort of a
dynamically scoped "goto") than they are like the condition system.
You can use Python's exception mechanism for the primitive control
transfer, and build something on top of that (but since you can't
write syntax in Python it's going to be butt-ugly).  That's what Shai
Berger was trying to do.

Keep a list of (exception-type, function) pairs.  Where you want a
try/except, write a try/finally instead, with the "try" part pushing
"except" handlers on the front of this list, and the "finally" part
taking them back off (to emulate dynamic binding...don't use threads).
Instead of using raise, look up the exception type in this list and
call the associated function, so it runs above the failure point in
the call stack (but note that it has to transfer control somewhere
else if you don't want to return).  For restarts, do a similar thing,
mapping restart names to ("randomly" named) exception subclasses (as
catch tags); where you want a restart, write try/except using that
subclass name, push it on the restarts list, and to invoke it look up
the name and use raise on the tag.  Or something.

-- 
Malum est consilium quod mutari non potest             -- Publilius Syrus

(setq reply-to
  (concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(#\@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))


From parker at hiredatum.demon.co.uk  Sun Oct  3 05:50:13 2004
From: parker at hiredatum.demon.co.uk (Ian Parker)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:50:13 +0100
Subject: idiom for debug code? [1/1]
References: <y6SdnUz8sr673sHcRVn-gA@rogers.com>
	<wfmdnXvIef4v1cHcRVn-vQ@comcast.com>
	<6tadnfHqDdcg9cHcRVn-hQ@rogers.com>
	<0DoHajVjBwXBFwhr@hiredatum.demon.co.uk>
	<yeadnZwsvvKa7cLcRVn-pA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <OsF5B4YVt8XBFwlm@hiredatum.demon.co.uk>

In message <yeadnZwsvvKa7cLcRVn-pA at rogers.com>, Dan Perl
<danperl at rogers.com> writes
>Thanks, Ian.  It's late Saturday for me now so I will look more at the code
>later, but so far what I get from what you sent is only dprint and that is a
>logging utility.  That's not what I was looking for.  OTOH, I see that your
>posting was probably only a first installment, so I am looking forward to
>more details, including more parts from your utility module.
>
>The solution that you are using for the dprint utility involves a global
>variable.  How do you change its value?  Is that still by making a change in
>the code, even if the change is only one place?  I would like a solution
>that does not involve any change in the code and is determined strictly at
>run-time.  I was thinking of something like an environment variable or a
>configuration attribute.  Of course, your solution can be adapted to set the
>global variable based on an environment variable or based on configuration.
>
>As for rewriting your code, did you take a look at the newsgroup thread
>about the new logging utility?
>
>Dan
>
>"Ian Parker" <parker at hiredatum.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:0DoHajVjBwXBFwhr at hiredatum.demon.co.uk...
>> In message <6tadnfHqDdcg9cHcRVn-hQ at rogers.com>, Dan Perl
>> <danperl at rogers.com> writes
>>>I was not thinking of actually removing code.  The analogy to C++
>>>preprocessing was just an example.  I am looking at something that can be
>>>determined at run-time, not compile-time.
>>>
>>>And you're right, I'm not really concerned about the overhead of an "if"
>>>because I will not use this extensively anyway.  This problem occurred to
>>>me
>>>when I decided to add an import for win32traceutil.  I'm looking for a way
>>>to have that permanently in the code and enabling/disabling it only at
>>>run-time.
>>>
>>>I have thought of alternatives like an environment variable or a
>>>configuration parameter, but I was looking for other ideas.  I thought
>>>this
>>>should be a common issue and that there could be an idiom for it.
>>>
>>>Dan
>>>
>>>PS: in the case of importing win32traceutil, I guess that checking the
>>>environment would be necessary anyway, or the import should be in a try
>>>statement, ignoring the exceptions.
>>>
>>>"Larry Bates" <lbates at syscononline.com> wrote in message
>>>news:wfmdnXvIef4v1cHcRVn-vQ at comcast.com...
>>>> Dan Perl wrote:
>>>>> Is there a mechanism or an idiom for adding code for debugging so that
>>>>> it
>>>>> can easily be removed in the production code?  I am thinking of
>>>>> something
>>>>> similar to the C/C++ preprocessor statements with which you can compile
>>>>> an application with the debug code or without it (the default).
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>> Personally I think you should consider NOT removing the debugging code.
>>>> It never ceases to amaze me how many times I must have a client run
>>>> the application with debug set so that the program logs details about
>>>> the running process and intermediate results.  The output logfile can
>>>> then be easily emailed, faxed, etc. to me so that I can determine what
>>>> is REALLY the problem.  The overhead of these if _debug: "type"
>>>> statements seems incredibly low compared to the ability to get this
>>>> information when needed.  Just some thoughts based on my experience
>>>> of the last 30+ years.
>>>>
>>>> Larry Bates
>>>> Syscon, Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I' use the following technique.  I originally wrote it four years or so
>> ago, so I'm sure it could be much improved.  In fact looking at it now,
>> I ma deeply embarrassed to post it, and know it could be dramatically
>> improved both by using more modern features of Python,  by better coding
>> and by some comprehension of  design.
>>
>> I have a utility.py module which contains my common functions and I
>> import this in every module, plus a wrapper for the debug function:
>>
>> import utility
>>
>> debug = 0
>>
>> def dprint( *args):
>>    """
>>        print function toggled on or off by module debug variable
>>    """
>>    global debug
>>    if debug:
>>        apply(utility._dprint,args)
>>
>>
>> This allows me to scatter dprint functions throughout the module instead
>> of print statements, and enable or suppress them by setting the global
>> 'debug', e.g.
>>
>>    def func(x):
>>        global total
>>        total += x
>>        dprint("total is currently",total)
>>
>> to get an output of something like:
>>    ! module.py:83 in func: total is currently 10
>>
>>
>> The relevant code from my utility.py is attached.
>>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>
>> I would welcome rewrites of this code, of course.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Ian
>> --
>> Ian Parker
>>
>
>

That was indeed the only instalment.  Yes, thinking about it now, dprint
is simply a logging system, so I really should look at the logging
module -(which didn't exist when I wrote dprint).  Feel free to lift the
code - I certainly lifted chunks of it from other examples I find on
this newsgroup.

Yes, 'debug' is a global variable.  The reason for the inclusion of the
dprint wrapper in each module is to make use of the module 'debug' to
give a little more granularity.  Two points:

In a function, I frequently do what feels like a very clumsy hack:

    def func(x,y):
        global debug ; olddebug = debug
#     debug = 1
     .
     .
        debug = olddebug
        return

so that any embedded dprints can be controlled more specifically.

One other feature of dprint:  if you call it without parameters it will
attempt to display the arguments of the function in which it occurs.

What other functions do I have in my utility.py?  The same as everybody
else - all those things you find yourself writing that you think you
will use often.  No I'm not publishing it -  the code is frequently even
worse than that of dprint.

Regards

Ian
-- 
Ian Parker


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct  2 19:26:42 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:26:42 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4199.1096747084.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4199.1096747084.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <RSG7d.2812$gk.2625@okepread01>

Campbell Kwok wrote:
> Hi, I am trying to write a program for my school homework and I'm a 
> little stuck. The homework have to do with barcodes and I need to read 
> the barcode, then add up all the odd number positions(eg a barcode of 
> 123456789012, then the odd is 1,3,5,7,9,1) I do not know how to get the 
> odd number positions out of that str of numbers. Please help me
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Scan and help eliminate destructive viruses from your inbound and 
> outbound e-mail and attachments. 
> http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines 
>  Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN? Premium right now and get the 
> first two months FREE*.
> 
for i in range(half-length):
   print 2*(i+1)

regards
  Steve


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct  5 07:52:23 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 07:52:23 -0400
Subject: [OT] New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4329.1096975106.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4329.1096975106.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <N6mdnQHpeNtrF__cRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

Mark English wrote:
> Python is generally 2000 to 3000 times faster than Java if you run Java
> on a toaster and Python on a super-cooled space computer orbiting
> Saturn.

QOTW!

And thanks for the gut-wrenching laughs, Mark. :-)  My doctor
will be sending you his bill...

-Peter


From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Sat Oct  9 05:23:20 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 17:23:20 +0800
Subject: Python GUI, which one?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3841.1096027498.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3841.1096027498.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2spof9F1n9rjrU1@uni-berlin.de>

Sells, Fred wrote:

> I see there are several different choices for Python GUI API's.  
> 
> Is there any indication of which ones are 
> 1. the most commonly used?
> 2. the most reliable?
> 3. the most robust?

PyGtk, PyQt, Tkinter, and wxPython are the most
'mature' and widely used.

Greg Ewing's PyGUI (http://nz.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python_gui/)
may be a promising candidate.

But I'm not particularly excited by any of the
above.  Instead, I think the 'holy grail' would be
if the Mozilla people became more receptive to the
idea of letting us script XUL via Python (instead of
Javascript).

XUL is both a cross-platform widget toolkit _AND_ GUI
specification language and it is so easy and fast to
use I would rather use it to build a GUI rather
than a visual designer!

Too bad the Mozilla people see XUL's future as more or
less evolving in the direction of Javascript, RDF and
some obscure de jure W3C standards which I highly doubt
will ever see the light of day.

If only some genius could hack the existing XUL widget
toolkit and its XPCOM interfaces to make it scriptable
with Python instead of Javascript.  Or, failing that,
recreate an XUL implementation that works with Python
(will not need XPCOM or RDF anymore).

The ideal future would be a Mozilla browser that is
scriptable directly with Python and which also includes
a Python interpreter.  That way, you can deploy full-fledged
XUL-based GUI apps (written in Python instead of yucky
Javascript) on the net which will run for anyone who uses
Mozilla.

Javascript + W3C DOM is mediocre at best, and unfixable, so
we should be jumping to XUL for web app UIs instead.  And
XUL works just as well for desktop apps as well (as evidenced
by the Mozilla suite of applications incl. FireFox and
Thunderbird).

With speculations that Google might want to make their own
(Mozilla-based?) browser,

http://news.com.com/Clues+may+point+to+Google+browser/2100-1032_3-5379625.html

and knowing that Python is extensively used within the
company, perhaps the time has come for Python to start
supplanting Javascript as the client-side scripting language
of the web, and for XUL to replace W3C DOM/DHTML as the
interface specification language/API for web applications.


From theller at python.net  Tue Oct 12 12:36:12 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:36:12 +0200
Subject: DCOM
References: <221d8dbe.0410120039.1e4675b5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lleb99mr.fsf@python.net>

srijit at yahoo.com writes:

> Hello,
> I am looking for examples of simple DCOM server and client in Python
> on Win 2K or Win XP. I could not find anything worth mentioning during
> Google search.
>
> I am also interested to learn whether ctypes module can be used for
> writing DCOM server and client.
>

There isn't much difference between DCOM and COM, for the server and
client programmer, at least.

Mark Hammond's "programming python on win32" explains how to set up
DCOM, fortunately the chapter containing this is the sample chapter
that's available online at
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonwin32/chapter/ch12.html#60057

It is still recommended to get this book.

Thomas


From anna at aleax.it  Wed Oct  6 16:28:30 2004
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Martelli Ravenscroft)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:28:30 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4310.1096950256.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4293.1096947506.5135.python-list@python.org>	<KUo8d.3033$UP1.1475@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4303.1096948810.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4162200b$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4310.1096950256.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <OzY8d.722$b5.34812@news3.tin.it>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
>> On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>> When I said "harsh", I meant being accused of trolling,
>>> attempting to annoy, stir trouble, etc.  None which was my
>>> intent nor did I think that my post would be interpreted as
>>> such (otherwise I wouldn't have posted it).
>>>   
>>
>>
>> If you honestly didn't think you were being rude and weren't
>> going to annoy anybody, you really, really do need to read how
>> to ask questions the smart way.  c.l.p is a very kind place,
>> but should somebody as naive as you wander into the rest of
>> Usenet... well, I just don't like to think of what might
>> happen.
>>
>>  
>>
> Apparently it is not a matter of "smartly" but don't ask at all.
> 
> I get the point, grief.

Honey, you ain't seen grief! If you'd posted any *one* question like 
that on misc.fitness.weights, you'd have been drawn, quartered, tarred 
and feathered, hung out to dry, and THEN they would start getting mean!

Seriously - the feedback you're getting from several posters is that 
you're welcome to ask questions, but you need to show that you've done 
some work first of your own - you need to show that you've put some 
thought and research into it before posting a question. Some are just 
laughing or teasing but several honestly trying to help you understand. 
Please, don't back off and avoid asking - just learn from the responses 
*how* to ask and *when* to ask (i.e, after you've done some research, 
reading to learn what you can on your own, and mebbe even tried 
something out and then come back and have us help you fix it so it works).

Anna


From claird at lairds.us  Fri Oct  1 17:08:20 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:08:20 GMT
Subject: GUI development: Java vs. Python (was: Calling (C)Python code from
	Java: Is it JPype?)
References: <cjeem1$5h9$1@newshispeed.ch> <cjg70t$gun$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<du7wtybod4b.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.4178.1096637558.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sis032-lej.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.4178.1096637558.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Neil Benn  <benn at cenix-bioscience.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>          As I remember, the OP said that he was going to use Java - the 
>GUI toolkit for that is very nice and extremely portable (no cross 
>platform niggling little issues 'the window doesn't behave that way on 
>linux - well it does on windows!!') - the reason for this - Java GUI 
>(Swing ignore AWT for the point of this - AWT has the same problems as 
>other native GUI toolkits) is _not_ native.  Although I must agree that 
			.
			.
			.
Mr. Benn, you're saying something important here, but something
which merits, at least, qualification.  Certainly the Java com-
munity has given considerable attention to the "write once, run
everywhere" goal.  My own experience has been that their success
in regard to GUIs is mixed, at best.

Maybe it would help to clarify a bit--*which* "GUI toolkit" do
you have in mind?  I *think* you're talking about Swing--is that
right?

My conclusion:  while Java undeniably aspires to be portable in
its GUI, those with a stake in the outcome need to specify clearly
their requirements.  Java does *not* currently provide perfect
portability.


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  5 00:11:40 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 04:11:40 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162142c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4294.1096947568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162185c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4296.1096948074.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41621efc$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:

>>>>>Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following 
>>>>>support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*
>>>>>
>>>>Wow. Rude much?
>>>>
>>>>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>>>>http://www.python.org/
>>>>
>>>What does "Rude much" mean?
>>
>>You've _got_ to be kidding...
>
> I don't think that that is proper english.

Oh. My. Gaawwwd!

Which one, the "Rude much?" crack or the "You've got to be
kidding..." crack?  The latter isn't all that improper
(especially not for Usenet).  The former is colloqial US
English.  More specifically it's "Valley Speak" -- made popular
outside "The Valley" by movies like "Valley Girl", "Mall Rats",
"Heathers", and just about any John Hughes movie (especially
Sixteen Candles).  The first two are crap, but "Heathers" is a
good movie, and I still like "Sixteen Candles".

> Anyhow, I wasn't trying to muster up anything or annoy anyone.
> My sincere apologies to all who were offended.

Apology accepted on the condition that you read
how-to-ask-smart-questions, and go browse around
www.python.org for 15 minutes.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Uh-oh!! I forgot
                                  at               to submit to COMPULSORY
                               visi.com            URINALYSIS!


> Anyhow, I wasn't trying to muster up anything or annoy anyone.  My 
> sincere apologies to all who were offended.


-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I would like to
                                  at               urinate in an OVULAR,
                               visi.com            porcelain pool --


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Tue Oct 12 15:37:22 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:37:22 -0400
Subject: Order in metaclass
Message-ID: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>

In the following example:

class MyMetaclass(type): pass
class MyBaseType(object): __metaclass__ = MyMetaclass
class MyType(MyBaseType):
     x = 4
     y = 5
     z = 6

Is there any way to modify MyMetaclass to keep the order of x,y,z somewhere?

Thx and regards,
Nicolas


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 14 03:42:22 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:42:22 +0200
Subject: sequence of objects
References: <mailman.4860.1097680204.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glm5um.i9c2tj15atfjpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Neal D. Becker <ndbecker2 at verizon.net> wrote:

> What is the recommended way to create a sequence of objects?  Assume the
> objects have a default constructor:
> 
> class X:
>   def __init__(self):
>     something
> 
> This doesn't work:
> a = 64*(X(),)
> 
> This creates a tuple of 64 copies of a single identical object, not 64
> instances of X.
> 
> I could create an empty list, then call append (X()) 64 times, but that's
> not very eligant (or maybe efficient).  Any suggestions?

I suspect you can't do much better than a list comprehension:

a = [X() for i in xrange(64)]

A _little_ better, maybe, with itertools:

import itertools as it

a = [X() for i in it.repeat(0,64)]

or even:

a = list(it.starmap(X, it.repeat((), 64)))


The itertools-based solutions DO go faster on my machine (at least with
Python2.4):

kallisti:~/cb alex$ python2.4 timeit.py -s'class X:pass' -s'import
itertools as it' '[X() for i in xrange(64)]'
1000 loops, best of 3: 208 usec per loop

kallisti:~/cb alex$ python2.4 timeit.py -s'class X:pass' -s'import
itertools as it' '[X() for i in it.repeat(0,64)]'
10000 loops, best of 3: 168 usec per loop

kallisti:~/cb alex$ python2.4 timeit.py -s'class X:pass' -s'import
itertools as it' 'list(it.starmap(X, it.repeat((), 64)))'
10000 loops, best of 3: 138 usec per loop

However, unless you're really squeezed for cycles (which is why I'm
doing the measurements with 2.4: if you ARE squeezed, upgrading to 2.4
and its generally better speed may be urgent for you), the simplicity of
the list comprehension may probably be preferable to these speedups (at
20% or even 35%, they sure look yummy, but remember, this is with a
class without even an __init__ -- add an __init__ doing any substantial
work, and the relative % speedup will decrease).


Alex


From neil.benn at arcor.de  Mon Oct 25 14:49:46 2004
From: neil.benn at arcor.de (Neil Benn)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:49:46 +0200
Subject: what are the most popular building and packaging tools for
 python ??
In-Reply-To: <5a309bd30410250301b26f445@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5a309bd30410250301b26f445@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <417D4ACA.3090409@arcor.de>

Steve wrote:

><snip> 
>
>(the suits are yet to be enlightened about
>the benefits of OSS).
>
<snip>
Hello,

          A word of warning, if you get a knowledgeable suit (hmm, I 
wear street clothes at work, does that make me a street!!) then they may 
start looking at reverse compilation.  This is something it it possible 
to do in most 'bytecode' languages - other bytecode implementations 
(java, .NET) use 'obfuscators' that will make your code unreadable if 
someone tries to decompile it.  To this end, I've not seen a python 
obfuscation tool - this is a real shame because it does mean I have to 
release my source code if I'm writing a commercial app.  To my mind the 
'make your client sign an agreement' policy doesn't always work, 
especially if I'm selling low value (sub $10K) tools where I don't want 
to go through the bother of waving a legal agreement under somebody's 
nose when I'm selling software (any more than a typical EULA) and I 
certainly wouldn't have the clout to enforce it!  This includes the EULA 
as well so you basically need a good licence manager.

    As to why I wouldn't open source my code - well what I'm doing 
hasn't been done before in my industry - if I release source code then 
someone can lift the ideas out of my code or simply bypass the licence 
manager to install multiple clients for the cost of one.  This means 
that I either have to write my licence manager in C or bridge out to 
another language.  Before you ask - I buy my music!!

    If anyone has heard of an obfuscator for python bytecode - let me 
know please.

Cheers,

Neil



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 21 19:36:34 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:36:34 -0400
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
 exception
In-Reply-To: <2e37dc1.0410201242.9bca574@posting.google.com>
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
	<cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<2e37dc1.0410201242.9bca574@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ROXdd.8976$SW3.2862@fed1read01>

Vinay Sajip wrote:

>>I thought a logging API was usually trying to do costly things only when 
>>it knows it has to. You /could/ do that, but since it doesn't come for 
>>free - why not first do the check if you will actually log this message?
> 
> 
> Right.
>  
> 
>>I'd simply say that constructing a log message from arguments is such a 
>>common thing that it is worth providing efficient API support for it. And 
>>I think it's truely counter-pythonic to prevent the usage of dictionaries 
>>at this point.
> 
> 
> Patch checked into CVS. Now:
> 
> 
>>>>logging.warn('%(string)s and the %(number)d dwarves', {'string':
> 
> 'Snow White', 'number':7})
> 
> gives
> 
> WARNING:root:Snow White and the 7 dwarves
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Vinay

But how much simpler

logging.want("%(string)s and the %(number)d dwarves",
                 string="Snow White", number=7)

seems (to me). Use kwargs!

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Oct 10 05:42:11 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 09:42:11 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Grant Edwards wrote:
>  What if you saw
> 
>   string1 xor string2?
> 
> Wouldn't you expect it to be equivalent to
> 
>   (string1 and (not string2)) or ((not string1) and string2)

I would expect it to give a syntax error.

If not, and 'xor' did become a new boolean operator
in Python I would expect it to act more like

   xor_f(x, y)

where 'xor_f' the function is defined as

def xor_f(x, y):
   x = bool(x)
   y = bool(y)
   return (x and not y) or (not x and y)


Why the distinction?  In your code you call bool on
an object at least once and perhaps twice.  The
truth of an object should only be checked once.  You
also have asymmetric return values.  Consider

   s1   s2    s1 xor s2
   "A"  "B"    False
   "A"  ""     True
   ""   "B"    "B"
   ""   ""     False

Esthetics suggest that either "A"/"" return "A" or that
""/"B" return True.  Mine does the latter.  Yours does
neither.  Probably the Pythonic way, assuming 'xor'
can be considered Pythonic, is to return the object
which gave the True value, like this

def xor_f(x, y):
   bx = bool(x)
   by = bool(y)
   if bx:
     if not by:
       return bx
     return False
   else:
     if by:
       return by
   return False

In any case, 'xor' the binary operator is rarely
needed and as you've shown can be interpreted in
a couple different ways.  Each alone weighs against
it.  Both together make it almost certainly a bad
idea for Python.


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From andreas at kostyrka.org  Thu Oct  7 08:30:03 2004
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:30:03 +0200
Subject: End of file
In-Reply-To: <1glag26.95flqcwuwn89N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<4164f407$0$5963$d4d0a361@news.speedlinq.nl>
	<1glag26.95flqcwuwn89N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041007123003.GF17428@kostyrka.org>

On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 01:38:43PM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> duikboot <"adijkstra at baanders NOSPAM consultancy.nl"> wrote:
> 
> > Kat wrote:
> > > Hi ,
> > > How do you identify the last line of a file? I am in a "for" loop and
> > > need to know which is the last line of the file while it is being read
> > > in this loop.
> > > 
> > > Thanks
> > > Kat
> > 
> > f = open("test.txt").readlines()
> > lines = len(f)
> > print lines
> > counter = 1
> > for line in f:
> >      if counter == lines:
> >          print "last line: %s" % line
> >      counter += 1
> 
> A slight variation on this idea is using the enumerate built-in rather
> than maintaining the counter by hand.  enumerate counts from 0, so:
> 
> for counter, line in enumerate(f):
>     if counter == lines-1: is_last_line(line)
>     else: is_ordinary_line(line)
> 
> If the file's possibly too big to read comfortably in memory, of course,
> other suggestions based on generators &c are preferable.
This should do it "right":

f = file("/etc/passwd")
fi = iter(f)

def inext(i):
    try:
        return i.next()
    except StopIteration:
        return StopIteration

next = inext(fi)
while next <> StopIteration:
    line = next
    next = inext(fi)
    if next == StopIteration:
        print "LAST USER", line.rstrip()
    else:
        print "NOT LAST", line.rstrip()


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Sat Oct  9 09:55:34 2004
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:55:34 +0200
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
In-Reply-To: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <4167ef81$0$22563$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Erik Johnson <ej <at> wellkeeper a ?crit :
>     I am rather new to Python and still learning the finer points. I wanted
> to have a class which has a member dictionary of other class instances, a
> constructor that would initiate that dict with an empty dict if you didn't
> provide one, and a member function to stick more other classes into that
> dictionary.
> 
> I wrote something akin to this:
> 
> #! /usr/bin/python
> 
> #=======================================================================
> class Bar:
> 
>     def __init__(self, foo_d={}):
>         self.foo_d = foo_d

Woops ! What this does is probably not what you'd think, and I guess 
that you will complain that all instances of Bar share the same dict...

>     def add_foo(self, foo):
>         self.foo_d[foo.key] = foo
> #=======================================================================
> 
> 
> #=======================================================================
> class Foo:
>     pass
> #=======================================================================
> 
> 
>     You might be surprised to find out that all the Bar objects end up
> sharing the same foo_d dictionary.

Bingo !-)

>     I certainly was.

I'm not. But I certainly was first time I stumbled upon this !-)
This is a FAQ. The correct idiom is :

class Bar:
   def __init__(self, foo_d=None):
     if foo_d is None:
       self.foo_d = {}
     else :
       self.foo_d = foo_d

>     A single, shared dictionary is definitely not what I wanted or expected
> and didn't see why it was happening.  So... I struggled with that for a
> while and eventually reasoned that the {} in the argument list to my
> constructor is executed at the time of class definition, 

Exactly.

> and is essentially
> a reference to an instantiated dictionary object and therefor there is a
> little empty dictionary sitting in memory somewhere prior to me ever
> instantiating a Bar object. New Bar objects constructed without providing
> their own foo_d end up sharing that one.  I think this makes sense enough,
> now  (if I'm missing something, speak up).

>     So, one work-around is to do this:
> 
> #=======================================================================
> class Bar:
> 
>     def __init__(self, foo_d=None)
>         if foo_d:
>             self.foo_d = foo_d
>         else:
>             self.foo_d = {}

You've almost got it. You just want to test against None, not again 
False, since an empty dict evaluate to False in a boolean test.

Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40)
[GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> d = {}
 >>> if d:
...     print "d"
... else:
...     print "woops"
...
woops
 >>> d is None
False

>      This works. 

No. There's still a bug, but more subtle. Guess what will happen if you 
try something like :

 >>> b1 = Bar()
 >>> b2 = Bar(b1.foo_d)
 >>> b1.foo_d['foo1'] = Foo()
 >>> b2.foo_d['foo1']


> I reasoned that, unlike above, the {} in this definition is
> not executed until a Bar object is instantiated. But there is a little voice
> in my head saying "This is clunky. There must be some smarter, more Pythonic
> way to do this sort of default handling without ending up with a single
> shared object"

(snip)

>     So... Yes? Is there a better way to do this sort of thing, or is that
> perfectly reasonable code?

For mutable default args, testing against None is the default pythonic 
way. Now there are a lot of tricks when it comes to dynamically doing 
thing with Python, and you will probably discover'em sooner or later.

The python cookbook at o'reilly.com may be a good starting point, even 
if some recipes are somewhat out of date.

>     Thanks for taking the time to read my post! :)

You're welcome.


From deets.nospaaam at web.de  Tue Oct  5 13:07:17 2004
From: deets.nospaaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:07:17 +0200
Subject: XML and UnicodeError
References: <Xns9578AE59045A7devnulloo@130.133.1.19>
	<5339b60d.0410050013.6bbc673d@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957977C1D83A7devnulloo@130.133.1.19>
	<just-EE3837.12524305102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<Xns9579B6486D994devnulloo@130.133.1.19>
Message-ID: <2sg2hcF1ku1t8U1@uni-berlin.de>

Just for the record: Don't confuse unicode with utf-8 - the former beeing a
specification of more or less all characters used on this planet, the
latter an actual encoding of these that maps common ascii characters to
their well-known values and has escapes defined to encode all others, like
umlauts.

So

u'some text'

is not UTF-8 - its a unicode object. If you do this:

u'some text'.encode('utf-8')

it becomes a binary string which is encoded using utf-8. Specifying the
coding of the python file using the 

#  -*- encoding: iso-8859-1 -*-

syntax means that <some-text> found in

u'<some-text>'

are interpreted using the latin1-codec - so u'<some-text>' is a shorthand
for

'some-text'.decode('iso-8859-1')

Regards,

diez


From fluxent at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 17:43:06 2004
From: fluxent at yahoo.com (Bill Seitz)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 14:43:06 -0700
Subject: using old timeout_socket with UDP
Message-ID: <e2491a75.0410291343.77d8cbf9@posting.google.com>

I need to send some messages with UDP, using a version of Python
pre-2.3, but with some control over timeout period.

I've been pointed at
http://www.python.or.kr/pykug/timeoutsocket

I tweaked its line 142 to import SOCK_DGRAM
 from socket import AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, SOCK_DGRAM

Then my main function calls
 timeoutsocket.setDefaultSocketTimeout(5)
and later
 uSock = timeoutsocket.timeoutsocket(timeoutsocket.AF_INET,timeoutsocket.SOCK_DGRAM)

Does that make sense?


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 13 05:39:36 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:39:36 GMT
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:04:03 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

>Nicolas Fleury wrote:
>
>> In the following example:
>> 
>> class MyMetaclass(type): pass
>> class MyBaseType(object): __metaclass__ = MyMetaclass
>> class MyType(MyBaseType):
>>      x = 4
>>      y = 5
>>      z = 6
>> 
>> Is there any way to modify MyMetaclass to keep the order of x,y,z
>> somewhere?
>
>If you want to record the order of these definitions, you need to pass a
>custom dictionary that keeps track of assignments in the class generation
>code (basically a normal python function comprising the class suite).
>Unfortunately that dictionary - which you see later as the classdict
>parameter of the metaclass __new__() method - is always a dict created in C,
>as was recently discussed on c.l.py (sorry, but all keywords I remember are
>'metaclass' and 'martelli' - not very selective :-). Below is my (clumsy)
>attempt for a workaround:
>
>import itertools
>
>class OrderedValue(object):
>    newIndex = itertools.count(1).next
>    def __init__(self, value):
>        self.value = value
>        self.index = self.newIndex()
>        
>class Meta(type):
>    def __new__(mcl, name, bases, classdict):
>        assert "ordered_names" not in classdict
>        
>        values = []
>        for (n, v) in classdict.iteritems():
>            try:
>                v, i = v.value, v.index
>            except AttributeError:
>                pass
>            else:
>                values.append((i, n, v))
>        values.sort()
>
>        ordered_names = []
>        for (i, n, v) in values:
>            ordered_names.append(n)
>            classdict[n] = v
>        classdict["ordered_names"] = ordered_names
>        
>        return type.__new__(mcl, name, bases, classdict)
>        
>                
>class Base:
>    __metaclass__ = Meta
>    
>class Demo(Base):
>    alpha = 0
>    beta = OrderedValue(1)
>    gamma = OrderedValue(17)
>    delta = OrderedValue(3)
>    
>print Demo.ordered_names        
>print Demo.alpha, Demo.beta
>

Or, an ugly hack that might work for a while, depending on how
co_names is really generated. It seems in order of occurrence
(including right hand sides of assignment, but still top down) ...

 >>> import sys
 >>> def getnames(): return sys._getframe(1).f_code.co_names
 ...
 >>> def MC(cname, cbases, cdict):
 ...     names = cdict.get('ordic',[])
 ...     names = [name for name in names if name in cdict]
 ...     cdict['ordic'] = dict([(name,i) for i,name in enumerate(names)])
 ...     return type(cname, cbases, cdict)
 ...
 >>> class C(object):
 ...     __metaclass__ = MC # really a function shortcut
 ...     x = 123
 ...     y = sys
 ...     z = 0
 ...     ordic = getnames()
 ...
 >>> C.ordic
 {'ordic': 5, '__module__': 0, '__metaclass__': 1, 'y': 3, 'x': 2, 'z': 4}

 >>> class D(object):
 ...     __metaclass__ = MC # really a function shortcut
 ...     x = 123
 ...     def m(self): pass
 ...     def sm(): print getnames()
 ...     sm = staticmethod(sm)
 ...     ordic = getnames()
 ...
 >>> D.ordic
 {'ordic': 5, '__module__': 0, '__metaclass__': 1, 'm': 3, 'sm': 4, 'x': 2}
 >>> D.sm
 <function sm at 0x00906030>
 >>> D.sm()
 ('getnames',)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From redhog at takeit.se  Mon Oct 11 12:17:07 2004
From: redhog at takeit.se (Egil M?ller)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 09:17:07 -0700
Subject: Fatal error: GC object already tracked
Message-ID: <b0afa8dd.0410110817.6358e22a@posting.google.com>

I'm developing a larger Python program, and one component (a text
parser for a networking protocol) happend to be terribly slow, while
quite a simple piece of code, so I decided to reimplement it in C.

However, my code seems to do something in err, since the program
semi-randomly locks somewhere outside my C-code (after returning to
python), and semi-randomly issues a "Fatal error: GC object already
tracked". As this is my first C-module ever, nearly straight from the
HOWTO, I don't have much clue as to what is really wrong with my
code...

The code is available for inspection at
http://grimoire.takeit.se/files/CReader.c, and the error happens at
line 1111 in that file...

TIA
/Egil


From mwh at python.net  Thu Oct 14 10:57:45 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:57:45 GMT
Subject: Compiled Byte code
References: <1097675350.5192.206374341@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.4852.1097676193.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m37jptz6s6.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> writes:

> On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 19:19 +0530, Soumitri wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Is there a dependency of version or platform for running a snippet of
> > python compiled code? I have a .pyc (possibly created on a *nix box)
> > that was created off ver 1.5.2 and returns a "Bad Magic Number in .pyc
> > file" error when i run a box with XP and Python 2.3.
> 
> IIRC, I believe bytecode (pyc files), while mostly portable across
> platforms (I've used the same pyc files on Linux and Windows)

Uh, *entirely* portable, I hope, or you've found a bug :-).

Oh, well, you might get into trouble with things like floating point
constants that turn out to be NaNs (e.g. 1e3000).  But you'll have
trouble with those even without moving .pycs between platforms.  And
floating point numbers in general might be problematical if the libc
on the generating platform really sucks.  Err, yeah, mostly portable
:-)

> aren't portable across major versions of Python.

To be clearer, major version in this sense means that bytecode for 2.X
is not guaranteed to (and in practice, won't) run on 2.Y, but bytecode
for 2.X.Y *will* run on 2.X.Z.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  > Well, as an American citizen I hope that the EU tells the MPAA 
  > and RIAA to shove it where the Sun don't shine.
  Actually they already did. Only first they bent over and dropped
  their trousers.      -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz & Toni Lassila, asr


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Sun Oct 17 13:34:43 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:34:43 -0400
Subject: md5 and large files
In-Reply-To: <4172AA52.9030606@vt.edu>
References: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<4172a5f6$0$28202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <4172AA52.9030606@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041017103471925b71@mail.gmail.com>

[Brad Tilley]
> I would like to verify that the files are not corrupt so what's the most
> efficient way to calculate md5 sums on 4GB files? The machine doing the
> calculations is a small desktop with 256MB of RAM.

You'll find md5sum.py in your Python distribution.  It reads 8KB at a
time, so requires little RAM regardless of file size.  You can use it
directly, or copy the small calculation loop into your program.  Note
that reading 4GB of data will take significant time no matter what you
do.


From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Fri Oct 29 02:28:52 2004
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 11:58:52 +0530
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>

>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> Future plans
>     The ultimate purpose of the 0.9 release series is to shake out the
>     remaining bugs, especially on platforms I have no access to, and
>     to target a rock stable ctypes 1.0 release.
>     When ctypes 1.0 is released, the com framework will be split off
>     into a separate framework named 'comtypes'.

Congratulations! I maintain ctypes for debian. I am holding off uploading
the 0.9 versions because they don't support Python 2.2. A Python 2.2 package
was present in debian for ctypes 0.6.2, I want to be sure that no one is
using it before uploading 0.9.x.

That aside, I am wondering if it isn't time to push ctypes for inclusion
into the standard Python distribution. Too late for Python 2.4, but how
about Python 2.5?

Ganesan


From jerf at jerf.org  Mon Oct 11 17:29:31 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:29:31 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.10.16.48.24.930075@jerf.org>
	<4169982d.4238722751@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.10.19.48.01.604089@jerf.org>
	<4169c7ad.4250882926@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.11.00.12.36.26295@jerf.org>
	<416a0afc$0$5686$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.11.15.12.33.931181@jerf.org>
	<416ae09b$0$5691$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.11.17.49.58.650715@jerf.org>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:35:55 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

> I don't know what you mean.  Two's compliment, one's
> compliment, signed-magnitude, and excess-N _all_ use a single
> bit for sign.

I meant a single bit exclusively for sign, such that 

1 00001001

and 

0 00001001

are the same absolute value. The complements don't work that way. I
guess that does leave a question for whether 1 is positive or negative,
but for the purposes of my point, that doesn't matter much.



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 11 00:51:28 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:51:28 GMT
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2sucjlF1p5plpU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <416a09c4.4267802054@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:22:28 +1300, Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

>Alex Martelli wrote:
>> Since an immediate instance of type object has no possible use except as
>> a unique, distinguishable placeholder,
>
>That's not true -- you can also assign attributes to such
>an object and use it as a record. (It's not a common use,
>but it's a *possible* use!)
>
I originally thought that too, but (is this a 2.3.2 bug?):

 Python 2.3.2 (#49, Oct  2 2003, 20:02:00) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> obj = object()
 >>> obj.x = 1
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: 'object' object has no attribute 'x'
 >>> dir(obj)
 ['__class__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__new__', '
 __reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__']
 >>> type(obj)
 <type 'object'>
 >>> obj
 <object object at 0x008DE3B8>

__setattr__ is there, so how does one make it do something useful?


OTOH, making a thing to hang attributes on is a one liner (though if you
want more than one instance, class Record: pass; rec=Record() is probably better.
<BTW>
why is class apparently not legal as a simple statement terminated by ';' ?
(I wanted to attempt an alternate one-liner ;-)

 >>> class Record:pass; rec=Record()
 ...
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in Record
 NameError: name 'Record' is not defined
 >>> class Record:pass
 ...
 >>> rec=Record()
 </BTW>

 >>> rec = type('Record',(),{})()
 >>> rec.x=1
 >>> vars(rec)
 {'x': 1}
 >>> type(rec)
 <class '__main__.Record'>
 >>> rec
 <__main__.Record object at 0x00901110>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at  Fri Oct  8 06:46:49 2004
From: franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 12:46:49 +0200
Subject: Country specific date format
Message-ID: <vrrcm0dn0f9pom05a1tefjcr4hpgdcg7o0@4ax.com>

Hello,

with following function, i get a human readable date/time format.

mtime = time.strftime(self.timeformat ,time.localtime(st.st_mtime))

However is there a simple solution to get a country specific format:
for example
10/08/2004

and for German:
08.10.2004

I looked in locale class, but I didn't get more wise.

Thank you in advance,

-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 12 15:02:53 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:02:53 +0200
Subject: Using os.system() and string concatenation
References: <7a2229ee041012114353157c1d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ckh9kr$q16$1@sea.gmane.org>

Wayne Witzel III wrote:

> Currently I process three files and build the output of those files in
> to lists using for statements.
>
> I think take those lists and provide them to an os.system() call.
>
> cmd = "/usr/sbin/useradd"
> os.system(cmd + list1[0] + list1[1] + list2[0] + list3[0])
>
> This executes without any errors, but doesn't execute the command
> supplied to os.system(). Now if I place them all in cmd first, then
> supply it to os.system() it executes just fine. So there really isn't
> a problem, just wanting to know what would cause such behavior.

the + sign doesn't add a space, so you're probably trying to execute
"/usr/sbin/useraddsomethingsomethingsomethingsomething" instead of
"/usr/sbin/useradd something something something something".

</F> 





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 03:17:12 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:17:12 +0200
Subject: Country specific date format
References: <vrrcm0dn0f9pom05a1tefjcr4hpgdcg7o0@4ax.com>
	<ck5tk3$jfn$02$2@news.t-online.com>
	<shrdm0lb4clgb4qe2ao1847s2jvm6pkl0b@4ax.com>
	<1yhad.18386$b5.906421@news3.tin.it>
	<hgdkm0p5trdo7ip6g135d7l8d6405em65f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1glijqw.1fgyc7q151ti5aN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Franz Steinhaeusler <franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at> wrote:
   ...
> >I would look at dateutil. It has some pretty nifty stuff for handling
> >timezones and locale-specific date issues...
> >
> >HTH
> >Anna
> 
> Hello,
> 
> thanks,
> 
> did you mean "datetime" instead of "dateutil". 
> (I couldn't find a dateutil)

(Hmmm, I'd better try to answer for her, she's flying USwards right now
and I'm not sure how good her newsgroup access will be for a while...!)

I think she really meant dateutil -- a wonderful 3rd party extension.
Google for it... it IS worth it (IMHO, and I believe in Anna's too:-).


Alex


From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Oct 21 20:12:05 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:12:05 GMT
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.21.20.11.16.813949@jerf.org>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:25:28 +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:
> 
>> I wonder, does Python support generic programming paradigm, and to what extent
> 
> It appears to me to support generics at least as well as C++ does.  I
> just write normal code (no typechecks) and voila, the equivalent of C++
> templates (at least).  What do you think is missing?

The handcuffs.



From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Fri Oct 29 13:26:12 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:26:12 +0200
Subject: Interface of the set classes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5666.1099068345.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <41824654$0$1779$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5666.1099068345.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41827d0b$0$313$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Steven Bethard a ?crit :
> Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier <at> cirad.fr> writes:
> 
>>For me, sets are first sequences. I use set where lists are inefficient 
>>or inadapted, for example when I need to remove redundancy and that I 
>>don't care about the positions of my elements.
> 
> 
> If you still need a fixed ordering after removing duplicates, why don't you just
> revert to a list?

I don't _need_ __getitem__ for itself. I need it because I don't know 
how to iterate over a list and store the current position for future 
use. If I really need to access a given element by position, obviously, 
set would not be the right container. But the sets as they are 
implemented now only allows simple traversal, and that's not acceptable 
for lots of algorithms (or at the cost of complexity and complexity in 
Python becomes quickly critical because iterating is a slow operation).

> 
> 
>>>>l = [11, 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 11, 3, 7, 5]
>>>>list(set(l))
> 
> [1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 11]
> 
>>>>d = list(set(l))
>>>>d[3]
> 
> 5
> 
> Of course, if you want to maintain the order that items are inserted, you can
> easily do this manually:
> 
> 
>>>>class orderedset(set):
> 
> ... 	def __init__(self, seq):
> ... 		super(set, self).__init__()
> ... 		self._items = []
> ... 		for item in seq:
> ... 			self.add(item)
> ... 	def add(self, item):
> ... 		if item not in self:
> ... 			self._items.append(item)
> ... 		set.add(self, item)
> ... 	def __iter__(self):
> ... 		return iter(self._items)
> ... 	def __getitem__(self, i):
> ... 		return self._items[i]
> ... 
> 
>>>>list(orderedset([11, 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 11, 3, 7, 5]))
> 
> [11, 1, 2, 3, 5, 7]
> 
>>>>orderedset([11, 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 11, 3, 7, 5])[2:4]
> 
> [2, 3]
> 
> And, while you're writing your own class to do this, you can change your method
> names to append, etc. if you like.  =)
> 
> The point here, I guess, is that the uses you intend for sets probably do not
> align so well with the uses everyone else has for sets.  Personally, I don't
> expect any ordering in a set, and if I need such ordering I convert back to a
> list.  I also almost never use the lst[x] syntax, preferring in general to just
> iterate with a for-loop (or list comprehension, or generator expression...)  If
> you find you do need the lst[x] syntax all the time, first, I'd double-check to
> see if I couldn't write things better with a for-loop, and then, if I was still
> pretty sure I couldn't, I'd write my orderedset class as above...
> 
> Steve
> 

I agree, I can always create my own structure (and that's what I did in 
exporting the STL set and hash_set) but I feel it's a shame to do so 
when the builtin structure has all the needed characteristic, but my 
algorithm cannot use it without a complete rewritting (and debugging ...)

Pierre


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct 13 10:03:37 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 14:03:37 GMT
Subject: locks
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4835.1097670275.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qa-dnWDkDKi-uPDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4845.1097675044.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns958199317CD18duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Cliff Wells wrote:

> I'm no expert at dis nor Python bytecode, but I'll give it a shot :)
> 
>>>> l = []
>>>> dis.dis(l.append(1))
> 134           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (findlabels)
>               3 LOAD_FAST                0 (code)
>               6 CALL_FUNCTION            1
>               9 STORE_FAST               5 (labels)
>  
> 
> ... 
><snip dis spitting out over 500 lines of bytecode>
> ...
>  
> 172     >>  503 PRINT_NEWLINE
>             504 JUMP_ABSOLUTE           33
>         >>  507 POP_TOP
>             508 POP_BLOCK
>         >>  509 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
>             512 RETURN_VALUE
>>>>
> 
> 
> It looks fairly non-atomic to me. 

The append method of a list returns None. dis.dis(None) disassembles the 
code from the last traceback object, nothing at all to do with your 
l.append(1) code.

Try this instead:

>>> def f():
	l.append(1)

	
>>> dis.dis(f)
  2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (l)
              3 LOAD_ATTR                1 (append)
              6 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
              9 CALL_FUNCTION            1
             12 POP_TOP             
             13 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
             16 RETURN_VALUE    


From claird at lairds.us  Fri Oct 29 00:08:06 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 04:08:06 GMT
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5640.1099009520.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5dr852-obu.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.5640.1099009520.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Richard Blackwood  <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Is Python not bytecode interpreted?  It has no JIT with the standard 
>distro but otherwise, it is no less byte-code than Java.  Misleading.
			.
			.
			.
Like many propositions in this thread, this one bears repetition
and examination.  Even people in authority reiterate that "Java
is compiled, while Python is interpreted."  Outsiders are going
to hear this said by people who appear to be speaking truthfully. 
It's at best misleading, of course, as Mr. Blackwood recognizes. 
There ought to be a way to armor the innocent against it ...


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Oct 12 11:29:57 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:29:57 -0400
Subject: How to: get list of modules in a package
In-Reply-To: <dfWdnaXpKtgvb_bcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
References: <4OudnSEQhLvFyfbcRVn-pg@rogers.com>
	<dfWdnaXpKtgvb_bcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <416BF875.9050401@rogers.com>

Peter L Hansen wrote:
...

> Given the dynamic nature of Python, I doubt that's easy to do.
> I'm not sure even os.listdir(), for example, can be relied on,
> given that you can import modules from zip files, or if the
> import hook is used, even from remote locations or, presumably
> (though I haven't seen it done yet), from "thin air" where
> the module is generated dynamically.

I used to do this somewhere in mcf.vrml (old VRML97 processing 
package).  The idea was to generate a module to hold classes which were 
also generated on-the-fly (from VRML97 prototypes).  You could then 
import the classes from the non-existent module as long as the module 
itself (which roughly corresponded to a VRML97 file) was part of your 
pickle.  The package holding those modules was empty until such time as 
you either generated one of those modules or loaded one from a pickle, 
and there was just no reasonable way to know what would eventually show 
up there.

Advances in Python (and my moving away from my perverse love of such 
tricks ;) ) made that particular usage obsolete, but it definitely has 
been done in the past...

Enjoy,
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From steve_erickson at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 14 08:01:48 2004
From: steve_erickson at hotmail.com (Steve Erickson)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 05:01:48 -0700
Subject: Problem with logging module
References: <78406811.0410130851.5cf73a75@posting.google.com>
	<ckjpbd$o0b$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <78406811.0410140401.4d466185@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message news:<ckjpbd$o0b$02$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> > self.logger = logging.getLogger(name)
> > self.logger.propagate = False
> > handler = logging.FileHandler(dir + '/' + name + '.log')
> > self.logger.addHandler(handler)
> ^^^^
> Thats your problem - only set the handler once for the runtime of your
> program.
Thanks.  Coming from C++, I thought that the local logger instance in
each test method would go away when I went out of the context of the
method.  Sounds like the logging class in Python maintains artifacts
that affect instantiations in other methods.  Or maybe I'm confused
about how Python handles local versus class variables.


From matt.price at utoronto.ca  Thu Oct 28 17:38:07 2004
From: matt.price at utoronto.ca (Matt Price)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:38:07 -0400
Subject: moving files across devices
Message-ID: <20041028213807.GA8036@utoronto.ca>

Hi folks,

I'm trying to move files across devices on my linux box.  Here's what
I had:  
    os.rename(sFileName, dir + newName) 
which gives:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/scripts/sort_mp3s.py", line 68, in ?
    localSort(i, defaultSaveDir)
  File "/usr/local/scripts/sort_mp3s.py", line 34, in localSort
    os.rename(sFileName, dir + newName)
OSError: [Errno 18] Invalid cross-device link

ok, so that doesn't work.  is there another method?

thx,
matt


-------------------------------------------
Matt Price	    matt.price at utoronto.ca
History Department, University of Toronto
(416) 978-2094
--------------------------------------------

please don't use the following addresses:  zeus at derailleur.org
aardvark at derailleur.org


From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Oct 29 23:54:51 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 03:54:51 -0000
Subject: (python), uid 80: exited on signal 11
References: <CEB19254-28FA-11D9-9CA1-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>
	<mailman.5642.1099012297.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1099108489.859673@yasure>

Quoth Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au>:
| On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Ksenia Marasanova wrote:
|
|> But I am just curious what that signal 11 means.
|
| Near as I can figure (on FreeBSD 4.8), signal 11 is SEGV (segment
| violation).
|
| Did you test the scripts outside the Apache environment?  On the face of
| your description, I'd have to say that one of the modules you've added to
| the scripts has a build problem of one sort or another...

If I remember right, the problem seemed to be associated with a
(C) db module.  "Python" programs should be pretty safe from memory
access errors like that, but of course a C module is not safe at all.
Could be a build problem, I guess, but I think more likely some
parameter isn't checked properly and when called in an invalid or
unexpected way, that function crashes.

The "kill -l" shell command enumerates the signals, in order
starting with SIGHUP == 1 (or some versions show the number too.)
They're fairly standardized up to SIGUSR2.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From heuer at quixs.com  Tue Oct 26 11:59:09 2004
From: heuer at quixs.com (Lars Heuer)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:59:09 +0200
Subject: Python Webshop?
Message-ID: <41383863.20041026175909@quixs.com>

Hi all,

I wonder if there's a OpenSource Python web shop? While every PHP
programmer seems to have written her own shop, my searches for web
shop based on Python are not every fruitful.

Would be nice if the shop would not require Zope.

Best regards,
Lars



From anna at aleax.it  Mon Oct  4 12:40:49 2004
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Martelli Ravenscroft)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:40:49 GMT
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <1gl55lu.yovfmt1kquac3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4231.1096844832.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410040223.4aa4f24b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4239.1096896657.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl55lu.yovfmt1kquac3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <l2f8d.37209$75.1841231@news3.tin.it>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

>>Figuring out the obvious tend to be a big barrier to the learning
>>process. For experienced writers, it tends to be a problem also,
>>because it's so obvious that one feels compelled to leave it out of
>>the explanation. But that's the issue here -- the fact that what I'm
>>freely calling 'class declarations' in Python are not really
>>declarations (in the same sense of C++, for example), are just
> 
> 
> Well, _this_ experienced writer keeps repeating this fact over and over
> and over again in _his_ explanations (e.g., Nutshell p. 32: "Unlike
> other languages, Python has no declarations"), but of course that
> doesn't help all that much if one's explanations just aren't read.
> 
> Some simple google search such as:
> <http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=declaration%20declarations&safe=i
> mages&ie=UTF-8&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&as_uauthors=martelli&lr=&num=2
> 0&hl=en>
> can further show you that I _ceaselessly_ keep repeating this...
> *hundreds* of times...: "def is not a declaration: it's an executable
> statement", "Python has no declarations", "For that, you'd need some
> kind of declaration. Python does not have declarations", "Right, since
> we have no declarations." -- over and over and OVER again.  And there
> are just snippets readable in the short google summaries of the FIRST
> page out of 351 hits.
> 
> So, for once, it seems to me that, on this specific subject at least, I
> should be held blameless: far from feeling compelled to leave it out, I
> am _obsessive_ about pointing it out again and again and AGAIN.  I don't
> think I can do much more to get the point across that "*Python has no
> declarations, only executable statements*", except maybe personally seek
> out every poster who speaks of "declarations in Python", grab them by
> their lapels and shout the truth out in their faces.  Sorry, I get too
> many frequent flier miles as it, without adding all of these side trips
> too.  If (at least some) experienced writers are doing the best they
> possibly can to get this crucial point across, and some readers still
> just can't get it no matter what, perhaps it's not all that useful to
> blame the writers -- and the READERS should perhaps take SOME
> responsibility for listening to the unceasing repetitions in
> question...?!

Being completely unbiased, of course, I will say that you do a damn fine 
job of mostly avoiding the "expert's error" of leaving out the "obvious" 
stuff.

Anna


From exarkun at divmod.com  Thu Oct 14 14:42:17 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:42:17 GMT
Subject: get list of callable methods
In-Reply-To: <m2brf56vmg.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <20041014184217.24030.951151985.divmod.quotient.476@ohm>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:46:15 -0500, John Hunter <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
> What is the best way to get a list of all functions actually defined
> in a module, ignoring those functions that the module may have
> imported but not defined?
> 
> The following gets a list of all the callables, but includes functions
> that some.module imports
> 
> funcs = []
> for o in dir(some.module):
>      if o.startswith('_'): continue
>      p = getattr(some.module, o)
>      if not callable(p): continue
>      funcs.append(p)
> 

  __all__ is the best indicator.  Since not all modules define it, though, inspect.getsourcefile() is a reasonable fallback to filter things based on the file of their definition.

  Jp


From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Oct 28 23:01:10 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 03:01:10 GMT
Subject: P2P framework
References: <4180f21f$0$43632$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.29.05.46.56.762846@jerf.org>

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:21:03 +0100, Boria Feigin wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I am looking for a networking (p2p, if you like) framework with Python
> bindings. Requirements are very basic - a node should be able to:
>     o join/leave the network (perhaps with some auth. mechanism, but not
> essential at this stage)
>     o broadcast a message to other nodes
>     o communicate with another node on the network

If you want a relatively small number of nodes, Jabber might work here.
"Broadcasting" would be by creating "chat rooms", then all messages sent
to the address representing the chat room go to all members. This will
eventually bog down if you have too many entities in that room.
Communication with other entities is straighforward; to shuffle around
large hunks of data use Out Of Band connections (i.e., you set up a direct
socket).




From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Fri Oct  8 11:13:12 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:13:12 -0400
Subject: ann: Pysch, Scheme runtime environment in Python
In-Reply-To: <ck65nd$9vf$1@pixie.nscp.aoltw.net>
References: <1e015c2a.0410070804.6e84016d@posting.google.com>
	<ck65nd$9vf$1@pixie.nscp.aoltw.net>
Message-ID: <4166AE88.2090006@fastmail.fm>

David Rush wrote:

>olepar at gmail.com (Oleg Paraschenko) writes:
>  
>
>>Pysch:
>>http://pysch.sourceforge.net/
>>
>>Pysch relies on Bigloo to preprocess a source code of
>>Scheme programs (expand macros) and to save the result
>>as XML. Pysch interprets only the refined XML.
>>    
>>
>
>This should get listed as the most bizarre implementation methodolgy
>ever adopted. I think you have definitively showed the equivalence
>between s-exprs and XML, if nothing else.
>
>And for the tone-of-voice challenged, I do not intend to convey
>sarcasm. Rather I am amazed that such an approach works well
>enough to:
>
>  
>
>>Pysch supports only a subset of the Scheme functions
>>library. Anyway, the subset is big enough to run
>>SXPath and SXSLT code.
>>    
>>
>
>How fast?
>
>david rush
>  
>
If you had checked the website you would know the answer.  It is stated 
clearly on the website that it is VERY slow, primarily for research, and 
therefore not for production purposes.


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Wed Oct 13 07:49:48 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:49:48 +1000 (EST)
Subject: passing a socket to a spawned process.
In-Reply-To: <1glkjad.ckwu451mkf5mxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <5d00592f.0410110923.2bb2b1ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4718.1097519079.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glkjad.ckwu451mkf5mxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041013214008.S59890@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Marcos Dione <mdione at grulic.org.ar> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 10:23:27AM -0700, Mike M wrote:
> > > Is it possible?  In the parent process, I have a socket that binds,
> > > listens and then accepts new connections (which creates new sockets in
> > > the process).  I want to be able to pass some of these new sockets to
> > > a spawned process.  Is it possible, and if so how?
> >
> >   just accept() before fork()'ing. the socket will be cloned. then close the
> > socket on the parent, unless needed.
>
> Unfortunately I believe that's platform-dependent.  Specifically: your
> suggestion should work on any sensible operating system... BUT a tad
> over 50% of Python programs are estimated to run on Windows, and, on
> THAT platform, I know your idea can't work (no fork!) and I don't know
> how to answer the OP's question (except by suggesting he move, if
> feasible, to any sensible platform -- any BUT Wind0ws...!-).

I've not tried this on Windows, but on OS/2 using the native sockets
(which is close to the Windows socket model as far as I can tell) you have
to pass the socket handle (an integer) to the child (usually via the
command line), which then attaches to the socket, and signals the parent
that it can close its reference to the socket.

The EMX (OS/2, Win32) and Cygwin (Win32) runtime environments synthesize
fork() and socket inheritance over the native environment, though at a
significant cost in run time and resources.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen ACT 2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia


From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Oct  6 19:21:00 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:21:00 -0400
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com> <cuWdnZpWo5C76vncRVn-rQ@rogers.com>
	<ck1trn$r46$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <u-CdnX5buLx-4PncRVn-iA@rogers.com>

Yes, that's right!  I didn't try it in the context of a function definition 
and thus I only checked that the dict({}) makes a different copy each time. 
I realize now that what happens is that there is now still a 'd' object 
(only in the context of the function) and it is shared by every instance. 
The more I think about it, that's the way it's supposed to work, the default 
value for the argument is calculated only once, when the function is 
defined, no matter how that calculation is made.

Dan

"Michael Hoffman" <m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote in 
message news:ck1trn$r46$1 at gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...
> Dan Perl wrote:
>
>> I think that a more "pythonic" way to implement your class is with a 
>> change in the definition of your __init__:
>>     def __init__(self, foo_d=dict({})):
>> This will create a separate copy for each one of your class instances 
>> instead of the common object that you are creating in the definition of 
>> the function.
>
> Actually it does exactly what the original code did <wink>.
>
> >>> def x(d=dict({})): return d
> ...
> >>> a = x()
> >>> b = x()
> >>> a
> {}
> >>> b
> {}
> >>> a[3] = 4
> >>> b
> {3: 4}
>
> Taking out the {} doesn't help either.
> -- 
> Michael Hoffman 




From cmedcoff at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  6 22:10:02 2004
From: cmedcoff at hotmail.com (Chuck)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:10:02 -0400
Subject: logging question
References: <H4KdnaUM3fVIBfncRVn-sQ@wideopenwest.com>
	<10m9743ahe15012@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ZrydncIuf8UKOPncRVn-pQ@wideopenwest.com>

> Each logger can have multiple handlers attached to it, with each of the
> handlers having their own threshold.  You can easily create a file
> handler, a stream (stdout) handler, and an email handler, all attached
> to your (root) logger.  Any logged messages should go to all of the
> attached handlers.  But if you, for example, give the email handler a
> threshold of 'critical', then 'info' and 'error' messages will go to the
> file and to stdout but won't get emailed.

Go it...

import logging

log = logging.getLogger("app.log")
fmt = logging.Formatter('%(asctime)s %(levelname)s %(message)s')
h1 = logging.StreamHandler()
h1.setFormatter(fmt)
h2 = logging.FileHandler('.//app.log')
h2.setFormatter(fmt)
log.addHandler(h1)
log.addHandler(h2)




From p at ulmcnett.com  Mon Oct  4 17:40:59 2004
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:40:59 -0700
Subject: wxPython - problem dynamically adding widgets?
In-Reply-To: <37f621d3.0410041214.305eb3e9@posting.google.com>
References: <37f621d3.0410041214.305eb3e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200410041440.59722.p@ulmcnett.com>

Fazan writes:

> The sizer approach seems pretty straightforward but I can't
> figure out why the app always locks up.  Anyone have ideas
> about how to solve this?  TIA

You should really post your question on the wxPython-users list, 
which is at:

http://www.wxpython.org/maillist.php

And in order to solve your problem, you're really going to need 
to show us some code: what have you tried? 

As a hunch, I'm guessing that you are adding your windows to the 
sizer but not to a real parent window. A sizer isn't a window, 
it is just an object. A window, such as a grid or a textctrl or 
a static bitmap, needs a parent, such as your top-level frame. 
You need to add your window to the parent (frame), and then 
separately add your window to the sizer.


-- 
Paul McNett
Independent Software Consultant
http://www.paulmcnett.com


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Oct 11 00:01:16 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:01:16 -0700
Subject: Using tuples correctly?
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F59@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
> I like tuples alot. But in some situations you seem to be forced to
> access the elements of a tuple via its indexes and that is pretty
> ugly. For example:
> 
> # make_color() returns a rgb tuple (r, g, b). I.e. (255, 0, 0)
> print "The red value is: ", make_color()[0]
> 
> Not nice at all. It is maybe OK for a rgb tuple that only has three
> elements, but for a tuple that has 10+ elements, index access is
> rediculous. In that case, unpacking wont helpe either. What you would
> like to write is:
> 
> print "The red value is: ", make_color().r
>8
> After some more browsing of the Python Cookbook and googling it seems
> like lots of people is trying to emulate structs on the fly in python.
> So why aren't there a tuple-with-named-attributes type in python?

The tuple-with-named-attributes is called a 'class' in Python.

class RGB(object):
    def __init__(self, r=0, g=0, b=0):
        self.red = r
        self.green = g
        self.blue = b

> So you could write stuff like this:
> 
> return (r: 10, g: 20, b: 30) or maybe return (.r 10, .g 20, .b 30)

color = RGB(10, 20, 30)
print "The red value is: ", color.red

If you *must* have a tuple to throw around, give your class a 'tuple' method:

class RGB(object):
    def __init__(self, r=0, g=0, b=0):
        self.red = r
        self.green = g
        self.blue = b
    
    def tuple(self):
        return (self.r, self.g, self.b)


Why bother to shoehorn all of the name scaffolding into tuples when it's already present in classes?


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From boria at NOSPAM.fbg.uklinux.net  Thu Oct 28 09:21:03 2004
From: boria at NOSPAM.fbg.uklinux.net (Boria Feigin)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:21:03 +0100
Subject: P2P framework
Message-ID: <4180f21f$0$43632$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>

Hi All,

I am looking for a networking (p2p, if you like) framework with Python
bindings. Requirements are very basic - a node should be able to:
    o join/leave the network (perhaps with some auth. mechanism, but not
essential at this stage)
    o broadcast a message to other nodes
    o communicate with another node on the network

Basically, something like Sun's JXTA (www.jxta.org) would be more than
sufficient. They do have a Python bindings project (jxtapy.jxta.org) but
that seems dead and I'd rather avoid using Jython for the time being.

All and any advice appreciated.

Boris








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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 11:13:26 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:13:26 +0200
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
References: <mailman.5015.1097859379.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckp0vj$r1g$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1glsuhc.10eukauy09rs8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:

> Donnal Walter wrote:
> 
> > The following method is defined in one of my classes:
> > 
> >      def setup(self, items={}):
   ...
> First of all, don't use {} as default value for items. Many have stepped
> into this trap: While perfectly legal, it will be evaluated only once, when
> the method setup is found the first time. So then an instance of a dict is
> created. But now if subsequent calls to setup alter that dict items points
> to, they all share the same dict!! This small example illustrates that

However, there are no problems whatsoever with the issue you remark on,
as long as the method never alters the 'items' object.  As long as only
nonmutating methods get called on 'items', i.e., 'items' is practically
treated as "read-only", Donnal Walter's approach is just fine.  The
issue you remark on does deserve to be made, but it's also important to
understand when it does matter and when it doesn't.


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 17:45:05 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:45:05 +0200
Subject: [ANN] PySQLite 1.0
References: <mailman.4368.1097005231.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl9dev.1j87pnh1j1dlmvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:

> =============================
> Announcement for PySQLite 1.0
> =============================
> 
> I'm pleased to announce that PySQLite has reached version 1.0 now.

Cheers and celebrations!!!  It's always important to hear when a
developer deems his code mature and solid enough to risk the "1.0" label
-- and this goes double for the _excellent_ PySQLite, which was a pretty
solid and mature and _incredibly useful_ piece of code for quite a while
already.  Bravo Gerhard!

I hope the DBAPI SIG's efforts to make a better DBAPI 3.0 aren't quite
stalled...?  I think it's high time to standardize down to ONE format
for argument substitution and support _iteration_ on fetches rather than
having to either fetch one, or a list... that's a minimum set on which I
hope agreement could be reached...

For a far more ambitious goal, look al psycopg2 -- YUM... adaptation
roolz!!!  (My secret dream is to have psycopg2 and PySQLite 2.0 support
the same API -- at which point I will care little what the DBAPI does,
since, unless a client twists my arm _and_ dangles bags of gold in front
of me, PostgreSQL and SQLite are the only two RDBMSs I really
need...!-).  Considering the nationalities of the psycopg[2] and
PySQLite developers, might I suggest rekindling the goot olt Rome-Berlin
Axis, or would that automatically invoke Goodwin's Law & kill the
thread?-)


Alex


From danperl at rogers.com  Fri Oct  8 10:29:45 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:29:45 -0400
Subject: wxPython problem switching between 2 wx.SplitterWindow's
Message-ID: <wMOdndsFQK7_OfvcRVn-tQ@rogers.com>

I have posted this problem also on the wxpython-users list, but maybe 
someone here can also help.

I want to keep 2 different views for the same object, both views using 
SplitterWindow.  So I am trying to create 2 SplitterWindow's, keeping both 
in memory, and alternately show only one of them.  However, that doesn't 
work and I've tried all kinds of combinations of Show, SplitVertically, 
UpdateSize, and Layout.

I think I have isolated the problem in this code snippet (also attached). 
This code actually works.  But un-comment the 2 lines for splitter2 and you 
will see the problem:
    #!/usr/bin/env python
    import wx

    class myFrame(wx.Frame):
        def __init__(self, parent):
            wx.Frame.__init__(self,
                              parent=parent)
            self.SetClientSize(wx.Size(600, 500))
            self.splitter1=wx.SplitterWindow(self)
            self.splitter1.Hide()
            #self.splitter2=wx.SplitterWindow(self)  # un-comment and you'll
            #self.splitter2.Hide()                   # see the problem
        def showSplitter(self, id):
            if id==1:
                self.splitter1.Show()
            if id==2:
                self.splitter2.Show()

    class myApp(wx.App):
        def OnInit(self):
            wx.InitAllImageHandlers()
            self.mainWin = myFrame(None)
            self.mainWin.Show()
            self.SetTopWindow(self.mainWin)
            self.mainWin.showSplitter(1)

            return True

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        application = myApp(0)
        application.MainLoop()

I have cut it down to the bone, so there are no children in the 
SplitterWindow's and they are not even splitted.  I assure you that the same 
is happening in those cases.  I am not invoking any Layout( ) here, but I've 
tried that too.

Can anyone explain what is happening here?  Am I missing a step somewhere? 
Or could this actually be a bug in SplitterWindow?

Dan 




From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Fri Oct  1 11:24:26 2004
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:24:26 +0100
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net><MJednUj3F8J40MDcRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4176.1096636511.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cjjt2c$idm$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>


"Neil Benn" <benn at cenix-bioscience.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.4176.1096636511.5135.python-list at python.org...

>     IMHO, I think that Python is not a suitable piece of software for
> industrial control as it has poor support for bytes (a string shouldn't
> be used to store bytes!)

That's largely a matter of attitude I think; many would argue that byte
strings shouldn't be used to store text.




From DesertLinux at netscape.net  Sat Oct  9 23:41:21 2004
From: DesertLinux at netscape.net (Byron)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 03:41:21 GMT
Subject: The IDE question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi DA,

I don't know if you will find this to be helpful, but one of my favorite 
IDEs is DrPython, which is free and allows you to have multiple files 
open at the same time.  Check it out...

http://drpython.sourceforge.net/

Byron
---

dataangel wrote:
> I'm trying to find an IDE for python that I'm comfortable with. For my 
> needs IDLE actually works 99% of the time, but on my current project I 
> need to have lots of files open at once, and I would really prefer to 
> have tabbed browsing. I'd even try to code this into IDLE myself but I 
> have no experience with Tk.
> 
> All of the IDEs I've found (google + python wiki page) are either A) 
> Commercial or B) Written for either an older version of python or 
> wxPython or C) Are syntax highlighting in eclipse and that's it.
> 
> All I'm really looking for is the equivalent of IDLE with tabbed 
> browsing. Anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> 


From justinstraube at charter.net  Wed Oct 13 23:06:31 2004
From: justinstraube at charter.net (justin)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:06:31 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Dialog boxes
Message-ID: <hlqrm0pv92o1h4qjl0oabb26t59il5nrq3@4ax.com>

Hello,

Ive looked through what I could find on the Tk dialog boxes, but was
not able to find what i wanted.

I am looking for one that will allow me to select a directory rather
than a file. Any suggestions what I can try?

Thanks,

justin straube


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct  4 17:54:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:54:07 -0400
Subject: wxPython - what classes are available?
In-Reply-To: <470ec500.0410040000.7dcad024@posting.google.com>
References: <470ec500.0410040000.7dcad024@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ptCdnREHrP3iW_zcRVn-rA@powergate.ca>

moff wrote:
> There seems to be a heck of a lot of wxEWindows classes available. 
> Can someone tell me (or send me a link of) what is compatable with
> wxPython?
> 
> It can't be the whole lot, can it?
> 
> (Wow, wxPython looks GREAT!)

(a) yes it does. :-)

(b) It's called wxWidgets now, not wxWindows.

(c) As far as I know, effectively all classes are provided in
wxPython which are not already provided by standard Python.
For example, wxList is not provided, since Python has its
own lists.  Similarly with networking and threads.  The GUI
stuff is pretty much complete.

(d) Download wxPython, install, and run the demo.  It shows
*everything* (roughly speaking)...

-Peter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 15:30:31 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:30:31 +0200
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
References: <mailman.5138.1098132727.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl2ldp$p5o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5179.1098204696.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.5184.1098208437.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl3mgv$i24$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1glx9uk.19y2l5yvlo403N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
   ...
> >>iavailable = chain(stock, starmap(random.random, repeat(())))
   ...
> No, you cannot pass a callable to repeat() and have it called. In the above
> line repeat(()) yields the same empty tuple ad infinitum. The trick is that
> starmap() calls random.random() with that empty tuple as the argument list,

Stylistically, I prefer
    iter(random.random, None)
using the 2-args form of the built-in iter, to 
    itertools.starmap(random.random, itertools.repeat(()))

However, itertools IS a speed demon...:

kallisti:~/cb alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import random, itertools as it'
\     > 'list(it.islice(iter(random.random, None), 666))'
1000 loops, best of 3: 884 usec per loop

kallisti:~/cb alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import random, itertools as it'
\     > 'list(it.islice(it.starmap(random.random, it.repeat(())), 666))'
1000 loops, best of 3: 407 usec per loop


Alex


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct 19 12:12:06 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:12:06 +0200
Subject: Referencing objects own functions
References: <48a9916d.0410190745.4c9d0536@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cl3ebq$q43$05$1@news.t-online.com>

pip wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Pretend I have the following:
> 
> class foo:
>   commands = [
>     'name': 'help',
>     'desc': 'Print help',
>   ]
> 
>   def print_help(self):
>     print "Help is on the way!"
> 
> I would like to add another entry to the commands dict. called 'func'
> or something which contains a reference to a function in the foo
> class. What would the entry look like if atall possible?
> 
> I would rather not use eval if possible.

As a rule of thumb, you can do everything in a class suite that can be done
in a function definition. 

def print_help(self):
   # code

binds the print_help name to a function object in the same way as
one = 1 binds 'one' to the integer object 1. Therefore you have to define it
before you can use the reference:

>>> class foo:
...     def print_help(self):
...             print "help is on the way"
...     commands = dict(
...             name="help",
...             desc="print help",
...             func=print_help)
...
>>> fooinst = foo()

There are two ways to call commands["func"], but both require that you
explicitly provide the self parameter:

>>> fooinst.commands["func"](fooinst)
help is on the way
>>> foo.commands["func"](fooinst)
help is on the way

While calling the function stored in the commands dictionary is a bit more
tedious than normal method invocation, all efforts to simply that depend
heavily on what you actually want to do with the function stored in the
dictionary.


Peter




From lists.python.org at bdash.net.nz  Tue Oct 19 03:01:27 2004
From: lists.python.org at bdash.net.nz (Mark Rowe)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:01:27 +1300
Subject: Building email threads from unix mailboxes
In-Reply-To: <1098138259.303424.280500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1098138259.303424.280500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <B271AD6E-219C-11D9-88DA-000A95D05654@bdash.net.nz>


On Oct 19, 2004, at 11:24 AM, Jed Parsons wrote:

> What headers to I have to know about to build thread trees from Unix
> mailboxes?
>
> Is it enough to get the In-Reply-To header for each message and build a
> dictionary of { Message-ID: message } pairs?  Or is it more complicated
> than that?

<http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html> has a good write-up about the 
threading algorithm used by Netscape Mail and News 2.0 and 3.0, and 
Grendel (<http://www.mozilla.org/projects/grendel/>). Jamie Zawinski 
was responsible for the design of Netscape Mail and News 2.0 and 3.0.

> If there isn't already a module to do this (and apologies if there is
> one and I don't know about it), are the current tools of choice the
> 'email' and 'mailbox' modules?  (And I guess I'd want to use the mime
> decoding tools in 'email' to deal with messages that come with
> attachments or html or other stuff.)

A.M. Kuchling has made a Python implementation of JWZ's algorithm 
available at <http://www.amk.ca/python/code/jwz>.

> Thanks for any tips,
>
> Jed

Regards,

Mark Rowe
<http://bdash.net.nz/>



From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Thu Oct  7 18:07:23 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:07:23 +0100
Subject: difficult zipefile Question
In-Reply-To: <d588131f.0410062226.165e914d@posting.google.com>
References: <d588131f.0410061437.4ecda4bf@posting.google.com>
	<ck1tfn$q64$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<d588131f.0410062226.165e914d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck4emv$9rb$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

matthiasjanes wrote:

> maybe someone has an idea.

Someone has more than an idea. I already posted the answer to your 
question, but you apparently only bothered to read part of my message.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From nick at craig-wood.com  Wed Oct  6 05:29:58 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 06 Oct 2004 09:29:58 GMT
Subject: Retrieving the full path of Unix apps
References: <cjuu5v$2n7$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>
	<w4E8d.3629$UP1.2214@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrncm7cjk.b7p.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
>  Here's an incomplete implementation of 'which'
> 
>  import os
> 
>  def is_executable(filename):
>        # Placeholder: not sure how to do this
>        return 1

def is_executable(filename):
    return os.access(filename, os.X_OK)

Is probably close enough unless you are running setuid (and even then
it probably does the right thing!)

>  def which(app):
>        dirnames = os.environ["PATH"].split(os.path.pathsep)
>        for dirname in dirnames:
>             filename = os.path.join(dirname, app)
>             if (os.path.exists(filename) and
>                 os.path.isfile(filename) and
>                 is_executable(filename)):
>                  return filename
>        return None

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 16 13:19:16 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:19:16 -0700
Subject: undefined variable ?
In-Reply-To: <20041016084913.09DB.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <a34050c7041016081440dd25ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041016084913.09DB.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041016101732.09DE.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> >>> t = time.time();tf(1000000);time.time()-t
> 27.0

The above timing should be for tf2(), I accidentally duplicated a line. 
tf2() runs in 27 seconds (all timings done on a dual-processor intel
celeron 400mhz machine using Python 2.3.2).

 - Josiah



From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Sat Oct 30 09:52:11 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:52:11 +0200
Subject: Plugin system
In-Reply-To: <2uhjppF2a61u6U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uhjppF2a61u6U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <41839c8b$0$78279$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:

> How would you implement a plugin system (for a web-based application)?

This is so general a question that I cannot think of anything concrete to answer.
Please ask again, with more detail about what you want/need/have in mind.

--Irmen


From duncan-news at grisby.org  Wed Oct 13 11:29:39 2004
From: duncan-news at grisby.org (Duncan Grisby)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:29:39 +0200
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ad180$416d49e3$51604868$18466@nf1.news-service-com>

In article <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac at posting.google.com>,
 John <johng2001 at rediffmail.com> wrote:

>Is there an equivalent of COM on Linux that I can get through Python.
>My need is to have some sort of language independent component
>framework. I can think of CORBA but I have to have a server running. I
>prefer not to. I just need Python components for local consumption in
>other languages. I remember Gnome libs having some thing like this.
>Any thoughts?

Other people have already mentioned that CORBA may be a good choice
for you, and pointed you to some of my presentations about the
issues.

One thing nobody has mentioned yet is your statement that for CORBA
you "have to have a server running". That is one of the common myths
about CORBA. For CORBA to work, there is no need for some kind of
separate server. Processes using CORBA talk to each other directly,
not through some other server.

Cheers,

Duncan.

-- 
 -- Duncan Grisby         --
  -- duncan at grisby.org     --
   -- http://www.grisby.org --


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Wed Oct  6 09:48:02 2004
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:48:02 -0300
Subject: re bug
In-Reply-To: <3e96ebd7.0410052341.113f75c5@posting.google.com>
References: <3e96ebd7.0410050057.29a15174@posting.google.com>
	<3e96ebd7.0410052341.113f75c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041006134801.GA4479@burma.localdomain>

> > Btw, the only reason that the OP's expression didn't got stuck
> > in the first two test cases is because the expression matched.
> 
> I don't really understand what you mean. You can easily change str3
> such that rx matches. Nevertheless, you will have to wait a long time
> to get a result.

If you're waiting a long time, your expression isn't matching. Try to
use "mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:2:3" as the last term of your third expression.
It executes in 0.045 seconds here.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net


From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Sun Oct 17 02:33:57 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 06:33:57 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <5Ikcd.5517$6k2.1064@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02> <ckr3j8$9fq$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<XNgcd.1933$B34.419@trndny02>
	<5Ikcd.5517$6k2.1064@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <pnocd.3098$bV5.2652@trndny07>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
> Here's the output I got when I ran it
> 
> 
> abadb?  We've got a 'Antimatter containment field breach' warning!
> abcdef?  We've got a 'Reactor meltdown imminent' warning!
> zxc?  That's okay.
> abcq?  We've got a 'Antimatter containment field breach' warning!
> b1234f?  We've got a 'Coffee too strong' warning!

Actually, I've noticed some strange behavior. It seems to match more 
than one character per wild card. For instance, your code matches 
'abaxile', 'abaze', and 'abbacomes' to the pattern 'ab##'. I'm not an 
expert with rex, but your expression looks correct. What could be 
causing this?


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 15 16:52:35 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 23:52:35 +0300
Subject: operation with strings and numbers
References: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it> <du7acun3kvz.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<6rWbd.142269$35.6913604@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <du7acun1z70.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "liquid" == GMTaglia  <liquid at kuht.it> writes:

    liquid> Ville Vainio wrote:
    >> 
    >> Did you mean Italian SCHOOLboy, be any chance? Don't be afraid to say
    >> so, because everyone can guess anyway.
    >> 

    liquid> sorry what you mean?

Well, it was a school assignment, right?

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From xeranic at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 08:05:45 2004
From: xeranic at yahoo.com (Xin Wang)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 05:05:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: About lambda.
Message-ID: <20041022120545.85978.qmail@web90003.mail.scd.yahoo.com>

Some c++ guru said c++ is hard to learn but easy to
use. Is python easy for both aspect? I found lot's of
confused in coding.

#code
from Tkinter import *

def on_click(m):
    print m
def lamb_on_click(m):
    return lambda : on_click(m)
root = Tk()
btns = ['0', '1', '2', '3']
for n in btns:
    b = Button(root, text=n, command=lamb_on_click(n))
#Ok!
    b.pack()
root.mainloop()
#

Or, 

#code
...
    b = Button(root, text=n, command=lambda x=n:
click(x)) #Ok!
...
#

The code above works well too, but follow is NOT! WHY?

#code
...
    b = Button(root, text=n, command=lambda :
on_click(n))
...
#

Whichever button be clicked, this only print '3'. 

Keyword 'lambda' is just like a macro in c or templete
in c++ or not?


		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Oct 26 20:27:25 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:27:25 -0400
Subject: request for feedback: pyfmf
Message-ID: <oOGdnVv0D8jmduPcRVn-gg@rogers.com>

pyfmf is a project I started a few months ago and that is registered with 
sourceforge (http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net, 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyfmf).  It consists of a framework for file 
management, with a console based toolkit (zigo) and a graphical platform 
(zago) based on the framework.  Both zigo and zago are still alpha releases, 
addressed only to python enthusiasts.

I just released a new version of zigo and the first release of zago.  There 
have been a few tens of downloads of previous releases of zigo (which is not 
bad) but I never received any feedback (at least I didn't get any bad 
feedback either).  I would like to hear what other people think about it.  I 
am interested in comments on uses, design, coding or just simply whether you 
think this is interesting and useful.  Please take a look at the home page 
of the project: http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net.

Thanks,

Dan Perl 




From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Mon Oct 11 08:40:07 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:40:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python to Python communication
Message-ID: <Xns957F95400C53Ecpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>

Hello,

I have a group of Python programms which I want to teach to "talk to each 
other".

All run on Windows, on the same computer or in the same intranet. 
Security of communication is not an issue (encryption on lower level 
protocols / intra computer communication). Partially these programs are 
using wxPython.

It is important that the communcation is "only an added feature", I am 
not willing to spend big memory / computing ressources on it.


So I googled and came up with at least the following opportunities:

XMLRPC - quite "simple" to implement within python, contained in my 
favourite web framework Quixote / medusa

SOAP - around the same amount of work as XMLRPC

----> these two are fully buzzword compatible to enterprise communication 
needs. But are they really lightwight and needed?


Banana - within the twisted framework. Is described as high performance 
with very litte ressources. From my scanning of twisted it is meanwhile 
possible to integrate it within wxPython and you only need to sell the 
soul of your firstborn for it; but I got the impression twisted rather 
needs a total commitment than a "I just need some banana, man"

pyro - Python Remote Objects. Irmen de Jong has a "get Firefox" icon on 
it's page and he plays with the name "pyro", which makes a good 
impression. It looks rather "ripe", but: he is talking about "pyro 4.0" 
which will be incompatible with pyro 3.4 and a total redesign. That makes 
me shudder.

COM / DCOM. From our favourite software company, available mainly within 
windows. Wrapped excellently with pywin32 ... but needs some seriuos 
type-mangeling to get through and around 2 Gig of Browser Cache to read 
all the MSDN documentation, which is quite C-ish.

socket / select. Within the standard lib. Does not look to hard to get to 
work, working samples included in the nutshell.

----

so, I am stranded ... and ask C.L.P. for recommendations.

What library have you used and would recommend?

Harald


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Oct 11 09:02:06 2004
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:02:06 +0100
Subject: Python to Python communication
References: <Xns957F95400C53Ecpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
Message-ID: <opsfpihsxo13dtg9@vpn-client-248-021.london.eur.slb.com>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:40:07 +0000 (UTC), Harald Massa  
<cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have a group of Python programms which I want to teach to "talk to each
> other".
>
> All run on Windows, on the same computer or in the same intranet.
> Security of communication is not an issue (encryption on lower level
> protocols / intra computer communication). Partially these programs are
> using wxPython.
>
> It is important that the communcation is "only an added feature", I am
> not willing to spend big memory / computing ressources on it.
>

[SNIP]

>
> pyro - Python Remote Objects. Irmen de Jong has a "get Firefox" icon on
> it's page and he plays with the name "pyro", which makes a good
> impression. It looks rather "ripe", but: he is talking about "pyro 4.0"
> which will be incompatible with pyro 3.4 and a total redesign. That makes
> me shudder.
>

[SNIP]

> Harald


Harald,

I only have experience with Pyro, so am biased, but from your rather  
sketchy
description I think it would have the smallest impact (in terms of existing
code re-work) as it can simply be bolted on with the inclusion of a couple
of extra classes. At least that was my experience when I needed to get a  
couple
of python applications talking...

Just my tupence worth :-)

Martin



-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Oct 29 03:12:32 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:12:32 +0200
Subject: Tkinter and utf-8
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5644.1099029894.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5643.1099019383.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4181cc21$0$3620$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<mailman.5644.1099029894.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4181ED60.5010703@v.loewis.de>

Justin Ezequiel wrote:
> Any tips for a Mandrake newbie for getting a few more characters displayed  
> WYSIWYG?  

What characters specifically are you missing? In general, the answer is
"install more fonts". Tk is pretty smart in finding the right font,
provided an appropriate font is available. Do xlsfonts(1) to see whether
you have a good number of fonts installed. On my system, I get

martin at mira:~/work/py2.4/Lib$ xlsfonts|wc
    8317   10959  495020

and I'm confident that Tk would display any character I could ever
encounter.

Regards,
Martin


From ville at spammers.com  Mon Oct  4 15:40:25 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 04 Oct 2004 22:40:25 +0300
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4231.1096844832.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410040223.4aa4f24b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4239.1096896657.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl55lu.yovfmt1kquac3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4257.1096908736.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7is9qw9ue.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Carlos" == Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> writes:

    Carlos> During the learning process, more often than not I would
    Carlos> try to solve *all* problems with a metaclass, as if it was
    Carlos> the only tool available.  Now that I'm starting to feel
    Carlos> comfortable, things start to fall back into the correct
    Carlos> perspective once again. But of course, now I'm better
    Carlos> equiped with a powerful addition to my toolset :-) Let's
    Carlos> not abuse it though.

Good idea. If I was to review a piece of code that introduced a
metaclass (as opposed to just using one that came with a framework), I
would be prone to ask the author whether he really exhausted *all* the
other avenues before going the metaclass route. Not documenting
metaclasses in the standard, bundled documentation is a good thing.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From no at spam.please  Mon Oct 11 18:08:43 2004
From: no at spam.please (Doug Holton)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:08:43 -0500
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <8-ydnZX55r3oYffcRVn-vw@giganews.com>
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
	<MNCdnR9olpAhWvTcRVn-pg@comcast.com>
	<JcmdnQnFT5NhH_fcRVn-tg@giganews.com>
	<V8SdnRfq9bLtQvfcRVn-vg@comcast.com>
	<8-ydnZX55r3oYffcRVn-vw@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <8JCdnZdSROT1mfbcRVn-sg@comcast.com>

Istvan Albert wrote:

 > "Python-like" means very little. Make it run python code
 > then you'll see a lot more interest from this group.

> This does not appear to indicate that boo is any faster
> than python...
> 
> Istvan.

Nice talking to you


From bruno at octantis.com.br  Sat Oct 23 21:30:27 2004
From: bruno at octantis.com.br (Bruno R. Dias)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:30:27 -0300
Subject: Interesting coding idea
In-Reply-To: <9ckln0tm2ubr7t8hafe27p66kfileceabu@4ax.com>
References: <2tvup4F24iddjU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<9ckln0tm2ubr7t8hafe27p66kfileceabu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2u0bd8F23g8afU1@uni-berlin.de>

Jack Klein wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:54:55 -0300, "Bruno R. Dias"
> <bruno at octantis.com.br> wrote in comp.lang.c:
> 
> 
>>Perhaps it would be interesting to program a virtual machine simulating 
>>an ancient computer (such as the pdp-7). Then, it would be rather 
>>interesting to code for it (porting gcc to it maybe?). I think it would 
>>be fun to play with the long-forgotten art of coding in machine language.
>>
>>And what about a fictional computer, such as one that works on an 
>>entirely different way (such as a non-binary computer)?
>>
>>It wouldn't be very useful, but it wouold be a very fun and very 
>>interesting thing to hack on.
> 
> 
> And what exactly does this have to do with the C language?  I suspect
> it is equally off-topic in comp.lang.python.
> 
It would be *programmed* in a language, obviously. It's just that C is 
rather appropriate for that kind of stuff, It's one of my favorite 
languages, and It's a subject that should interest C programmers. The 
same goes for Python.

-- 
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/E/L d-- s+:+ a--- C++ UL+ P--- L++>+++ E W++ N+ o+ K++ w---
!O M-- V--PS++ PE++ Y>+ PGP>+ t++(+++) 5? X R+ tv@ b+++@ DI++++ D--- G+ 
e- h! r-- y
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 15 03:04:54 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:04:54 +0200
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mo6q66oi0kj04@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmplmh.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mqr0rlj9h6r69@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4894.1097693029.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mrev24df58k60@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1gloawd.1evwxaa1arg2g0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
   ...
> certainly entitled to his opinion, but there are others who *do* agree
> with Python's design goals.  ISTM that it would therefore be better, 
> overall, for those who disagree with Pythonic philosophy to look for a
> different language that suits them better, and those who agree with 
> Pythonic philosophy to keep using Python.  Trying to please everyone 
> with a single language just isn't gonna work, nor should it be expected

Amen, hallelujah.  There are thousands and thousands of programming
languages, and more are born all the time.  Trying to make one language
please all is a doomed endeavour: "if you want PL/I, you know where to
find it" (apparently that was Ritchie's stock answer to Thompson's
occasional whines that C didn't allow this, that, or the other -- C
shares with Python the underlying ideal of "there should be one obvious
way", indeed Python shares 4.5 of the 5 principles that the ANSI C
Standard introduction defines as "the Spirit of C").


> Oh, and I almost agree with you about list comprehensions -- they'd do
> just as well to be left out of Py3K, because they've been superseded by
> generator comprehensions. ;)

"Generator expressions" is the recommended terminology nowadays.  But I
agree, list(x+x for x in foo) is a perfectly acceptable alternative to
the equivalent List Comprehension [x+x for x in foo] and in Python 3.0
the latter is therefore likely to be removed, as part of the overall
idea of removing many "legacy" things, accumulated over the years, and
make Python more pythonic.

Hacking on CPython on a vast scale is too hard to bother, but if and
when pypy matures, assuming 3.0 still looks far away at that point, I'd
like to make a "prototype 3.0" based strictly on removing stuff (moving
some redundant stuff to a legacy package in the standard library where
feasible, or else just excising it).  Ah well, one can dream!-)


Alex


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 29 10:59:00 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:59:00 -0400
Subject: Python package anthologies
In-Reply-To: <1gmfdi1.9ccj14oq43dgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>
	<1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<n5qdnS65dp2K2x_cRVn-1w@powergate.ca>
	<1gmfclt.1g61j8z1uatvgzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<B8udnU9P34qV1h_cRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<1gmfdi1.9ccj14oq43dgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <abqdnV6CjpQoxx_cRVn-rw@powergate.ca>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> The problem I can see with "sets of a dozen interrelated packages" is:
> what happens to users who need two of them, when the two packages use
> and include the same extension... in two different versions...

Uh, test first?  Why don't we try it and see how big a problem
it is?  (Using the impersonal "we", of course. :-)

-Peter


From bulliver at badcomputer.no-ip.com  Fri Oct  8 11:18:36 2004
From: bulliver at badcomputer.no-ip.com (Darren Kirby)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:18:36 -0700
Subject: Can wxWidgets/wxPython 2.4 and 2.5 co-exist on same PC?
In-Reply-To: <MqOdnbIa_pf4OPvcRVn-ig@comcast.com>
References: <MqOdnbIa_pf4OPvcRVn-ig@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <200410080818.42832.bulliver@badcomputer.no-ip.com>

quoth the R Baumann:
> I would like to be able to run Boa Constructor, which does not yet use 2.5,
> but I would also like to work with Dabo which does.
>
> Anyone have any ideas about how to accomplish this?
>
> Thanks
> Ruben

I would imagine it depends on your platform. For instance, Gentoo Linux has a 
mechanism called slots that allows multiple versions of the same app to be 
installed.

-d 
-- 
Part of the problem since 1976
http://badcomputer.no-ip.com
Get my public key from 
http://keyserver.linux.it/pks/lookup?op=index&search=bulliver
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972 
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From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 13 08:57:34 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:57:34 GMT
Subject: strange side effect with lists!?
References: <mailman.4817.1097656352.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glllnv.9f2gdijdroqgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416d22ac.152182767@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:19:56 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

><Wolfgang.Stoecher at profactor.at> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I'm new to Python and playing around. I'm confused by the following 
>> behaviour:
>> 
>> >>> l1 = [1] # define list
>> >>> l2 = l1  # copy of l1 ?
>> >>> l2,l1
>> ([1], [1])
>> >>> l2.extend(l1) # only l2 should be altered !?
>> >>> l2,l1
>> ([1, 1], [1, 1]) # but also l1 is altered!
>> 
>> So what is the policy of assignment? When is a copy of an object created?
>> Where to find dox on this?
>
>Bruno's answer seems very thorough so I'll just try to briefly summarize
>the answers:
>
>1. simple assignment (to a bare name, at least), per se, never
>   implicitly copies objects, but rather it sets a reference to an
>   object (_another_ reference if the object already had some).
>
>2. a new object is created when you request such creation or perform
>   operations that require it.  Lists are particularly rich in such
>   operations (see later).  Simple assignment to a bare name is not
>   an operation, per se -- it only affects the name, by making it refer
>   to whatever object (new, or used;-) is on the righht of the '='.
>
>3. I believe any decent book on Python will cover this in detail.
>
>Now for ways to have a new list object L2 made, with just the same items
>and in the same order as another list object L1 ("shallow copy"):
>
>a. import copy; L2 = copy.copy(L1)
>
>This works to shallow-copy _any_ copyable object L1; unfortunately you
>do have to import copy first.  Module copy also exposes function
>deepcopy, for those rare cases in which you wish to recursively also get
>copies of all objects to which a "root object" refers (as items, or
>attributes; there are some anomalies, e.g., copy.deepcopy(X) is X when X
>is a class, or type...).
>
>b. L2 = list(L1)
>
>I find this is most often what I use - it works (making a new list
>object) whatever kind of sequence, iterator, or other iterable L1 may
>be.  It is also what I recommend you use unless you have some very
>specific need best met otherwise.
>
>c. various operations such as...:
>   L2 = L1 * 1
>   L2 = L1 + []
>   L2 = L1[:]
>i.e. "multiply by one", "concatenate the empty list", or "get a slice of
>all items".  I'm not sure why, but the latter seems to be very popular,
>even though it's neither as concise as L1*1 nor as clear and readable as
>list(L1).
>
I got curious:

 >>> L = range(5)
 >>> L
 [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]

Make it self-referential:
 >>> L[2]=L
 >>> L
 [0, 1, [...], 3, 4]

 >>> import copy
 >>> Lc = copy.copy(L)
 >>> Lc
 [0, 1, [0, 1, [...], 3, 4], 3, 4]

 >>> Ldc = copy.deepcopy(L)
 >>> Ldc
 [0, 1, [...], 3, 4]

Interesting that the deep copy made the copy self-referential
(i.e., to the copy itself) like the original's reference to
its (different) self:

 >>> id(Ldc) == id(Ldc[2])
 True

Unlike the shallow copy:
 >>> id(Lc) == id(Lc[2])
 False
...whose middle reference was merely copied and sill refers to L:
 >>> id(Lc[2]) == id(L)
 True

But like the original:
 >>> id(L) == id(L[2])
 True

I'm impressed ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Oct 12 09:41:28 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:41:28 GMT
Subject: Core dump with increased recursionlimit
In-Reply-To: <slrncmn6h5.739.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <20041012134128.19317.733535534.divmod.quotient.1584@ohm>

On 12 Oct 2004 09:29:58 GMT, Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> wrote:
>I've just discovered that my python (Python 2.3.4 from debian package
> 2.3.4-1 running on debian testing x86 + linux 2.4.26) core dumps when
> I set recursionlimit very high and do lots of recursion.
> 

  You probably have a buggy version of glibc.  There is a version which automatically sets the stack limit to a fairly small value (I forget what the limit is exactly, 2 MB perhaps).  If this is the case and you strace your program, you will see a setrlimit() call near the beginning of the run.

  Jp


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Oct 10 05:27:50 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:27:50 +0200
Subject: Sorting and list comprehension
References: <ed89f8f2.0410100041.71c20541@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckava5$mp6$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Tran Tuan Anh wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to do the followings, but I am quite new to Python hence
> have not figured it out how...
> 
> salary = dictionary
> salary["Bob"] = 11
> salary["Marry"] = 4
> salary["me"]= 45
> 
> How can I have a sort_value() function acts like this:
> result = sortvalue(salary)
> result = ["Marry","Bob","me"]
> 
> In sort, I would like to sort the key according to the values.

>>> def sorted(items, key):
...     tmp = [(key(v), i, v) for (i, v) in enumerate(items)]
...     tmp.sort()
...     return [v[2] for v in tmp]
...
>>> salary = dict(Bob=11, Mary=4, me=45)
>>> result = sorted(salary, key=salary.__getitem__)
>>> result
['Mary', 'Bob', 'me']

Python 2.4 will have a similar sorted() function as a builtin.

> Regarding the list construction, how can I do this:
> 
> list = [item for item in list1 if for all item2 in list2 NOT
> bad_condition(item, item2]

I would use a conventional loop:

>>> list1 = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> list2 = [6, 2]
>>> result = []
>>> def bad_condition(a, b):
...     return a*2 == b
...
>>> for item1 in list1:
...     for item2 in list2:
...             if bad_condition(item1, item2):
...                     break
...     else:
...             result.append(item1)
...
>>> result
[2, 4]

By contrast, the listcomp solution is messy and does no short-circuiting:

>>> [item1 for item1 in list1 if True not in [bad_condition(item1, item2)
for item2 in list2]]
[2, 4]

Peter



From rtilley at vt.edu  Mon Oct 18 20:34:10 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:34:10 -0400
Subject: bz2 module
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5145.1098145272.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cl18e4$ma5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<mailman.5145.1098145272.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl1ndt$eb7$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> Is it possible that you've fallen for the common pitfall
> "I named my test program xxx.py, and module xxx doesn't work"?
> 
> If your program is called bz2.py, then rename it, and remove bz2.pyc.
> Now things may work better.
> 
> Jeff

That is it exactly. thank you!


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Oct 19 14:32:07 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:32:07 +0200
Subject: md5 and large files
In-Reply-To: <2tl2r4F20u7baU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.5128.1098124728.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl19dr$nqo$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<41743897$0$24525$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<2tl2r4F20u7baU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <41755da5$0$9599$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Tobias Pfeiffer wrote:
>>You may well search the space of
>>all possible files (in all file lengths), and never find a single
>>file that hashes the same as your original file.
> 
> 
> Are you sure about that? I have no clue about what the md5 algorithm 
> works like, but I'd think one could prove that with an number large 
> enough, every hash occurs twice. At last, md5 is not random.

I'm not sure. However, I'm also not sure of the contrary.

It is well possible to define a hash function which produces certain
hash values only for a single input. Consider this hash function
(operating on byte strings):

def hash(s):
   if len(s)==100:
     for c in s:
       if c != 'X': break
     else:
       return 0
   return len(s)+1

This hash function returns 0 only for a string of 100 Xs.
For any other input, it returns a different value.

So even though there are many collisions in the hash, there is
one input which never collides. The same may true for md5. Whether
it actually is true is still an open question, AFAIK. The proof
could go either way:
- here is string S which hashes as md5(S), and I can prove that
   no other string can possibly hash as md5(S).
- here is a procedure which, for every hash value H, produces two
   distinct strings S1 and S2 so that H==md5(S1)==md5(S2).

Regards,
Martin


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct  5 20:10:44 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:10:44 -0400
Subject: printing file/image on default Printer
In-Reply-To: <Xns957960B5B9520askariaddressNonVali@207.35.177.135>
References: <Xns957960B5B9520askariaddressNonVali@207.35.177.135>
Message-ID: <gOG8d.291818$4o.115966@fed1read01>

Askari wrote:

> Hi,
>    I search how "I" can printing file/image with a script but the user (who 
> use my script) must DO NOTHING (other that dealing with my GUI). e.g. : 
> with AdobeAcrobat, the user must click "ok" in the "pre"printing windows.
> 
> My solutions, but NOT ok :
>  - Build a .pdf (with reportLab) and print with Adode
>  - Build a image file and print it with "DisplayImage.py" but don't work 
> (error raised)
> 
> (note : the OS, for my problem, is just Windows)
> 
> Someone have a other idea/solution? 
> 
> Askari

Take as look at wxPython, which has a brilliant demo. One of the demo 
programs shows you how you can drive a printer from Python using the 
standard Windows print dialog (which is what I presume you are seeking).

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jerf at jerf.org  Tue Oct 19 16:24:27 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:24:27 GMT
Subject: bz2 & cpu usage
References: <cl365b$hh8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<cl36lk$83l$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<cl3757$iqm$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.19.16.23.49.133504@jerf.org>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:08:39 -0400, Brad Tilley wrote:
> The part I wrote about the "Windows GUI" is not clear. I meant the Windows
> XP Desktop. My script has no GUI. Sorry for the mix-up.

Before going too deeply into programmatic solutions, I'd try your program
on a completely different machine (different manufacturer or something so
the hardware is different). Excepting maybe priority setting, which is a
good idea anyhow.

While this was par for the course for Win9x, XP really shouldn't be
behaving like that in my experience. A little jumpy, maybe, but not
"unusable". Either:

* You're running it on a machine well below the stated XP requirements
(I've jammed XP onto a Pentium 233 w/ 96MB ram, but I don't recommend that
for most people; it was basically a server for me doing one specific
task.), or
* You're taking *way* too much data at a time, filling up your RAM, and
causing excessive swapping (though you ought to notice this), or
* You've got crappy hardware and your hardware can't handle the interrupt
load from the IO and the graphics at the same time; this is typically
caused by cheap motherboards, often from Via.

If your problem is hardware, you've pretty much already lost and your only
hope is different hardware.

Otherwise, as a hack, you can decompress as a stream and use the sleep
commands to voluntarily sleep for some period of time after some amount of
time or data has gone by, but this will still cause some jumpiness.



From agriff at tin.it  Tue Oct  5 02:10:17 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 06:10:17 GMT
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <mailman.4227.1096839829.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fu-dnW0ayarAGf3cRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
	<a321m0ptb8j9rfq01mrd5pn9vg791njquf@4ax.com>
	<opmdnfljLrvGPf3cRVn-qQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <nkc4m0dkiqqkrmlouib0rmcl8sqv6hnb0u@4ax.com>

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:59:07 -0400, Peter L Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

>Having companies always rewrite their own copy of something
>from scratch is a stupid, stupid way to do business, when
>their business is not supposed to be writing drivers for
>obscure pieces of hardware.

Actually I've observed that the "closed" behaviour is
not only from companies; but even in the research field.
For example on 3D graphics you can find a plethora of
documents on the internet down to the level of the
smallest detail and paper *sold* from universities
are the exception.
I saw this being the opposite (a lot of papers are sold,
a few are free and they don't get to the details) even
about problems that have been probably solved a jillion
times like "good" path computation under dynamic constraints
or motor control.

In my case I preferred solving the problem myself for
the context I faced instead of buying docs about the
solution (after all I don't expect the quality of them
to be terribly high... I wonder for example if researchers
in this area buy each other papers to know what others are
investigating in and what results they got).

In this field seems to me that really people try to
get above by standing on each other feet instead than
on each other shoulders; but this doesn't look to me
like just a software problem.

May be there are reasons for this being the status quo...
for example research in this area is terribly more
expensive than in the pure software field where you
can get quite far just with a $500 PC and some pizza.

...

>I'd say the "best thing" to do would be to start by
>collecting the various licenses involved and actually
>looking them over.  I haven't done that with PyGame,
>but unless it includes GPL stuff, there's a decent
>chance that there's no real impediment to using it
>in a closed source product, except perhaps your guilt
>at attempting to profit from the hard work of many
>others without even a token attempt to contribute
>something back to the community. ;-)

A problem is the LGPL licensing that requires you to
allow your users to re-link the program with a newer
version of the library. This is IMO both basically a
nonsense in this field (I can't think to a customer
even *wanting* to change the library version in a NC
machine he bought, often the investments are rather
high and the approach I see is "if it works just don't
dare to think about touching it") and annoying.
Also I don't understand what is required if a new
version of the library for example changes part of
the interface ... does this imply you're forced to
leave the source code so that it can be adapted to the
new library interface (even if may be not the rights
to use it past the re-linking requirement) ?

For pygame I've rewritten (mostly as an exercise in
writing python extensions) the part that I really
need that is just a little part of the screen and
surface handling as a C module ... after all I'm
not going to need sounds or other fancy things
present in pygame like CD, joystick, or movies.

I don't know if this trying to be opaque to competitors
is really the root of all evil... but even if this is
the case I'm not in the position to decide about those
issues. My impression is that being forced to be
transparent if using python would simply mean wiping
python out from the option list.

Andrea


From null at trit.org  Tue Oct 19 08:49:21 2004
From: null at trit.org (Dima Dorfman)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:49:21 +0000
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <1glwdd4.s05uuadrav97N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5152.1098149022.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glwdd4.s05uuadrav97N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041019124703.GR660@trit.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Dima Dorfman wrote:
> >   yield *other
> 
> say:
>     a = b, *c, d
> meaning the same as
>     a = (b,) + tuple(c) + (d,)
> or the old, currently out of favour proposal
>     a, b, c, *d = e

Both of these are intuitive to me. I'm generally in favor of expanding
the use of '*' to mean aggregation in this manner, but someone else is
gonna have to organize the crusade if they want one.

> where d gets (an iterator for) 'the rest of e' after the first three
> items of e are unpacked to a, b, and c.

FWIW, the implementation for the unpacking case is mostly straight-
forward (I did one a while back). The only caveat is what to do with
*d. You suggest storing an iterator for the rest of e, but this is
unuseful if e is a real sequence, like a tuple. It's easy enough to
special-case tuples and lists, but what about other user-defined
types? Maybe slice off the rest? Real iterators (iter(x) is x) would
have to be treated specially in any case.


From Anna at nospam.invalid  Mon Oct 18 19:35:57 2004
From: Anna at nospam.invalid (Ann)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:35:57 GMT
Subject: Python + Java knowledge
References: <41743e26$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <xrYcd.272267$D%.25120@attbi_s51>


"Maurice LING" <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote in message
news:41743e26$1 at news.unimelb.edu.au...
> Hi,
>
> I've learnt and used Java and Python for a few years now, on bits of my
> thesis work etc etc. I will have to say that I love both languages and
> the possibilities they can provide. More recently, due to the toolkit
> that I use, I've been using Python. And I found that my Jva knowledge
> slacks a little. So, I'm looking for some tips on how to maintain the
> knowledge on both areas.
>
> Has anyone done it?
>
> Thanks
> Maurice

I would say to look for some of those "what's different in xxx" files
and go from there.




From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 04:43:18 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 01:43:18 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0410050043.29fb9550@posting.google.com>

Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following 
> support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*

Most of your questions are answered at http://docs.python.org/
 
> 1. Multi line comments

No.  But multi-line docstrings are supported.

> 2. Functions as variables:
>     a. functions can be stored in variables, passed as arguments to 
> other functions, and returned as results.

Yes.

>>> def deriv(f, x, delta=1e-8):
...    "Centered difference approximation of f'(x)"
...    return (f(x + delta) - f(x - delta)) / (2 * delta)
...
>>> deriv(lambda x: x * x, 2)
3.9999999756901161

> 3. Function nesting with proper lexical scope (i.e. closures)

Yes.

> 4. Operator overloading (inc. the ability to define new operators)

Yes.  This is done by defining the special methods __add__, __mul__,
etc.

> 5. Can I do this?  print("Hello " .. "World")  --> Hello World

If ".." is supposed to be the string concatenation operator, then yes.

>>> print "Hello " + "World!"
Hello World!

> 6. Constructors

Yes.  They're defined like this:

   class MyClass:
      def __init__(self, arg1, arg2):
         # ...

and called like this:

   x = MyClass(arg1, arg2)

> 8. "Repeat-Until" as in :
>     repeat
>       line = os.read()
>     until line ~= ""
>     print(line)

There isn't a special syntax for posttest loops.  You have to write
them like

   while True:
      line = os.read()
      if not line:
         break
   print line
  
> 10. Can I call an object's method as object:method(arg) and have that 
> translate into object.method(object, arg)

>>> class MyClass:
...    def foo(self, arg):
...       pass
...
>>> m = MyClass()
>>> m.foo(0)
>>> MyClass.foo(m, 0)

> 11. Can I make dynamic statements and nature like with eval() in Javascript?

Yes.

>>> x = 1; y = 2
>>> z = eval("x + y")
>>> exec "print z"
3

> 12. Can I make calls to a function with a varying number of arguments?

Yes.

>>> def func(fixedArgA, fixedArgB, *args):
...    print "called with", 2 + len(args), "arguments"
...
>>> func(1, 2, 3, 4)
called with 4 arguments
>>> func(1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
called with 6 arguments

> 13. Named arguments

Yes.

>>> datetime.date(month=10, day=5, year=2004)
datetime.date(2004, 10, 5)

> 14. Tables with built-in methods for manipulation such as sort, etc.

Try the built-in "list" type.  Also, "dict".

> 15. Table filters

I'm not quite sure what you're asking.  Do you mean something like

>>> [n for n in xrange(2, 20) if isprime(n)]
[2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19]

?

> 15. Proper Tail Call (otherwise known as Proper Tail Recursion)

No.

> 16. The ability to call a function without brackets

Fortunately, no.

> 17. Is the Python interpreter a JIT? Does it have a bytecode?  Is it as 
> fast as Java?

For the standard interpreter: No. Yes. No.

But try Psyco (psyco.sourceforge.net).

> 21. May modules be stored in variables, passed to and produced from 
> functions, and so forth?

Yes.

>>> import sys
>>> import os
>>> modules = [sys, os]
>>> modules[1].getcwd()
'/home/dan'

> 22. Is the self parameter hidden from me as a programmer?  Can I 
> hide/unhide it as I wish?

No.

> 25. A fully implemented .NET counterpart (I should be able to write 
> Python scripts for both with the same code)

It's not fully implemented yet, but there is a .NET version
(http://www.ironpython.org).

> 33. Function/Method overloading

No, but it can often be simulated by default parameters, or by
"isinstance" checks.

> 34. In pure Python, can I change and add new constructs to the Python 
> syntax?

No.

> 43. Embedding variables in strings like: print "Hello, World. Time: 
> #{Time.now}"

No, but this can be written almost as easily using the % operator.

>>> print "Hello, World.  Time: %s" % datetime.datetime.now()
Hello, World.  Time: 2004-10-05 03:12:14.750796

or

>>> now = datetime.datetime.now()
>>> print "Hello, World.  Time: %(now)s" % locals()
Hello, World.  Time: 2004-10-05 03:14:01.111879

> 44. Case or Switch statements with functionality as such:
> case score
> when 0...40
>    puts "Horrible!"
> when 40...60
>    puts "Poor"
> when 60...80
>    puts "You can do better!"
> when 80...95
>    puts "Now that's acceptable"
> when 95..100
>    puts "That the best you can do?  j/k"
> else
>    puts "Didn't take the test?"
> end

Python does not have a switch/case construct.  Your example would
normally be written as an if...elif...else ladder.


From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 13 17:47:45 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:47:45 GMT
Subject: EVIL AMERICAN GOVT (aka FBI) is full of SADISTS and PERVERTS
References: <11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0@posting.google.com>
	<oe_ad.2602$SZ5.2249@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<odysseus1479-at-580B18.19305912102004@news.telus.net>
Message-ID: <5ohbd.3444$SZ5.1968@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Sorry about that.

"Odysseus" <odysseus1479-at at yahoo-dot.ca> wrote in message 
news:odysseus1479-at-580B18.19305912102004 at news.telus.net...
> In article <oe_ad.2602$SZ5.2249 at newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> "Lucas Raab" <pythongnome at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You can't help but love these little messages.
>>
>> "vicky" <vickyp679 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0 at posting.google.com...
>> > SUMMARY:
>> >
>> > THREE YEARS of and continuing MENTAL TORTURE, TERRORISM, SADISM and
>> > BLATANT human rights violations by FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS.
>> >
>
> [snip nearly 600 lines]
>
> Love them or not, I don't think anyone needs them reposted in their
> entirety, thanks.
>
> -- 
> Odysseus 




From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct  4 23:43:24 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 03:43:24 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162142c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4294.1096947568.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4162185c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>>>Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following 
>>>support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*
>>
>>Wow. Rude much?
>>
>>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>>http://www.python.org/
>>
> What does "Rude much" mean?

You've _got_ to be kidding...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  An Italian is COMBING
                                  at               his hair in suburban DES
                               visi.com            MOINES!


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Oct 11 11:42:17 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:42:17 +0200
Subject: Python to Python communication
In-Reply-To: <Xns957F95400C53Ecpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
References: <Xns957F95400C53Ecpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
Message-ID: <416aa9d9$0$566$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Harald Massa wrote:

> pyro - Python Remote Objects. Irmen de Jong has a "get Firefox" icon on 
> it's page and he plays with the name "pyro", which makes a good 
> impression.

Hey, thanks :)

> It looks rather "ripe", but: he is talking about "pyro 4.0" 
> which will be incompatible with pyro 3.4 and a total redesign. That makes 
> me shudder.

Pyro is "ripe"... version 3.0 was released Q4, 2002, so the 3.x
versions have been around and in active use for 2 years now.

I've been talking about Pyro 4.0 for a long time, but we haven't
even begun the real design of it. Partly because of lack of time,
partly because Pyro 3.x does its job so well (not my own words).

What is it that makes you shudder?
If you don't want to switch to Pyro 4.0 once (if??) it is released,
just continue using Pyro 3.x. I have no intentions of abandoning
the 3.x version: if there is an itch, or a bug, it will be addressed.


Regards,

Irmen de Jong


From kraus at hagen-partner.de  Thu Oct  7 02:48:19 2004
From: kraus at hagen-partner.de (Wolfram Kraus)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:48:19 +0200
Subject: 2 Newbie questions.
In-Reply-To: <Tl49d.425544$8_6.322047@attbi_s04>
References: <Tl49d.425544$8_6.322047@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <ck2org$vlc$1@ork.noris.net>

Len Sumnler wrote:
> Hi All
> 
> I am running SuSe Linux ver. 9.0. I have written the famous "Hello 
> World" program and want to run it as an executable.  I have searched
> the net and performed chmod +x mypython.py and added as the first
> line of my program #!/usr/bin/env python.  When I try to run the
> program as follows $ mypython.py I get the error message of, "bash:
> mypython.py: command not found".  What am i doing wrong.
Your current directory is not in your PATH environment variable, so you
have to call it with ./mypython.py or set your PATH. BTW your prompt 
looks like you are user "root", don't do that, login as a normal user!

> Second, I am looking for a good online tutorial for some one who
> knows other programming languages assembler, cobol, etc any
> suggestions.
http://www.python.org/topics/learn/prog.html

> Thanks Len Sumnler, Jr

HTH,
Wolfram


From jwaixs at linuxmail.org  Sun Oct 10 16:19:01 2004
From: jwaixs at linuxmail.org (jwaixs)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:19:01 +0200
Subject: Problem executing IDLE
References: <_Ofad.102571$He1.29537@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <3606b$4169958e$53e8229a$5021@freeler.nl>

Len Sumnler wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> I am trying to learn python.  When I try to run IDLE on my Windows XP it
> does not appear to run.  Does anyone know why this is happening.
> 
> Thanks
> Len Sumnler

Is it possible to run the interactive mode in dos of python? 
 
----------------------------JW-19-XS-----------------------------------


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 08:56:34 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 05:56:34 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>

there seems to be a serious problem with allowing numbers to grow in a
nearly unbounded manner, as int/long unification does: it hides bugs.
most of the time, i expect my numbers to be small. 2**31 is good
enough for most uses of variables, and when more is needed, 2**63
should do most of the time.

granted, unification allows code to work for larger numbers than
foreseen (as PEP 237 states) but i feel the potential for more
undetected bugs outweighs this benefit.

the other benefit of the unification - portability - can be achieved
by defining int32 & int64 types (or by defining all integers to be
32-bit (or 64-bit))

PEP 237 says, "It will give new Python programmers [...] one less
thing to learn [...]". i feel this is not so important as the quality
of code a programmer writes once he does learn the language.

-kartik


From jonathan at gennick.com  Wed Oct 27 10:05:07 2004
From: jonathan at gennick.com (Jonathan Gennick)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:05:07 -0400
Subject: Looking for more Cookbook contributors
Message-ID: <0kavn019dk6vf7ini32t3muc9e6r9j7t1n@4ax.com>

Once again, I find myself looking to contact contributors to the
Python Cookbook, this time for chapter 2. If you know how to contact
any of the people listed below, please contact me at
jgennick at oreilly.com . It would be a big help. 

Matteo Dell'Amico
Sebastien Keim
Yakov Markovitch
Amos Newcombe
John Nielsen
Chris Perkins
Nick Perkins
Noah Spurrier
Chui Tey
Robin Thomas
Jeremy Zucker

Again , any help in contacting these people would be much appreciated.

Best regards,

Jonathan Gennick
Editor, O'Reilly Media
906.387.1698   mailto:jgennick at oreilly.com


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  6 18:40:26 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:40:26 -0400
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <3nQ8d.16242$5O5.16154@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<YoO8d.4762$gk.1769@okepread01>
	<3nQ8d.16242$5O5.16154@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <Fz_8d.410$R43.296@fed1read01>

Neil Hodgson wrote:

> Steve Holden:
> 
> 
>>Until that time I hadn't realized that the laptop was built on a
>>multi-core processor.
> 
> 
>    It is more likely you had a machine that featured 'hyperthreading' which
> is much less than multiple cores. Somewhere between two sets of registers
> and two processors.
> 
Aah, the penny drops and I realize you are indeed correct. It's  using 
hyperthreading.
> 
>>Fortunately the task was easily partitioned into
>>two independent processes, each dealing with a separate set of database
>>rows, so the run completed well under the necessary 24 hours.
> 
> 
>    Did you measure a real performance increase, that is, elapsed time to
> completion of job? Many benchmarks show minimal or even negative performance
> improvements for hyperthreading. Relying on secondary indicators such as CPU
> busyness can be misleading.
> 

No, I *was* actually measuring elapsed time to completion, and I was 
surprised that the speedup was indeed just about linear. Not often you 
come across a task that can be cleanly partitioned in that way.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Mon Oct  4 14:42:44 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:42:44 +0200
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
In-Reply-To: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416199a3$0$65124$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Alia Khouri wrote:
> Recently, I've been fortunately placed in a position to possibly
> mandate the use of python for certain tasks in my new organization.
[...]
> Given this context, I'm mulling over strategies to encourage the
> productivity-enhancing benefits and 'joy' of python scripting to my
> developers. Of course, I'd rather be persuasive than coercive.
> 
> Any ideas?

My Python-compared-to-Java pages may be of some interest:
http://www.razorvine.net/python/PythonForJavaProgrammers

They don't really talk about Python's strong points or why
you "should dump Java and go with Python bla bla", but they
do provide a quick means of showing the way Python works
to people already proficient in Java.

--Irmen


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 13 12:18:02 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:18:02 +0200
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckjkf6$amt$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

> executed (which count() can guarantee). There are two situations where
> the simpler counter works, but the getframe hack doesn't:
> 
> -- if I have a loop inside my class that is used to declare bunch of
> attributes, all of them will have the same line number... but a
> different sequence number if the simpler method is chosen.
> 
> -- if a function is called that returns a bunch of attributes (not
> common practice, but still possible). All attributes are at the same
> line in this case. Example:
> 
> class Foo:
> a,b,c?=?myfunc(...)

Do you have an example handy? I had so far no success breaking Bengt's code.

Peter 
 



From theller at python.net  Mon Oct 18 04:54:17 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:54:17 +0200
Subject: py2exe with opengl
References: <ckvu93$66s$1@news.caesar.elte.hu>
Message-ID: <1xfwieyu.fsf@python.net>

Szucs Szabolcs Laszlo <kotee at elte.hu> writes:

> Hello,
>
> I do `python setup.py py2exe --exclude=OpenGL --includes=Tkinter'.
> It runs, OK. No error messages. I copy the whole
> OpenGL dir. next to the .exe file.
>
> When I run the .exe, it don't find the OpenGL module. Why?

I guess you have to insert the directory of the .exe into sys.path -
py2exe doesn't do this itself.

Thomas


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 10 03:39:15 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 09:39:15 +0200
Subject: module name not recognized
References: <ck6s3u$bp4$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <ckaor2$qs8$1@sea.gmane.org>

Darren Dale wrote:

>I have built two basic modules using distutils. One of them installs fine,
> but the other, I can't import modules from it. I've been pouring over the
> code and I cant find the problem.
>
> I know the file has been copied to site-packages/mypackage, but I cant do
>
> from mypackage import mymodule

really?  do you mean that you could type that into your mail program, but
not into a Python program?  that's weird... (read on)

> Could I get suggestions as to why a module would be installed but not
> registered?

if you run python with the -vv option, it tells you where it looks.

    $ python -vv
    ...
    >>> from mypackage import mymodule
    # trying mypackage.so
    # trying mypackage.py
    # trying mypackage.pyc
    ...

btw, note that if that import finds a mypackage without a mymodule,
it says

    ImportError: cannot import name mymodule

if it cannot find mypackage itself, it says

    ImportError: No module named mypackage

(this is why you should *always* include tracebacks when asking about
an error...  "can't do" or "doesn't work" or "an error" or even "an import
error" doesn't contain all the information you have, so you're forcing us to
guess.  don't do that, if you can avoid it)

</F> 





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 11:13:24 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:13:24 +0200
Subject: operation with strings and numbers
References: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it> <du7acun3kvz.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckqqp2$2om$1@news.flashnet.it>
Message-ID: <1glsu2s.t92mev7jx81cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Hellas <hellas_74 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I told "italian boy" only for my English that's orrible
> 
> Everyone says that in italian the english school is not good

May I suggest newsgroup it.comp.lang.python -- there, we talk about
Python in Italian.

Posso suggerire il gruppo it.comp.lang.python in cui parliamo di Python
in Italiano.


Alex


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct  9 08:57:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 08:57:20 -0400
Subject: How do I refer to a data file relative to a package or
 installation directory?
In-Reply-To: <ofL9d.675591$gE.224720@pd7tw3no>
References: <ofL9d.675591$gE.224720@pd7tw3no>
Message-ID: <kpedncCTJcOyffrcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>

Parzival wrote:
> I have a package that includes some data files. I am planning to use a
> distutils setup script to install the package. How can I compute a path
> name for such a data file that will always be relative to my package
> root directory (i.e. both when installed, and in my development directory?)
> 
> Or to rephrase, say the data file is mypkg/data/foo.dat relative to the
> package root "mypkg" (the directory that holds __init__.py). Is there an
> enquiry that will return the absolute path prefix for mypkg?

Presumably you meant that relative to the package root "mypkg",
the data file is actually at "data/foo.dat", or as some might
write it "./data/foo.dat"?  If not, you've got an extra layer
there confusing things.

Basically, just use __file__ inside the __init__.py module to find
that file's location, then use os.path.split() to pull off the
path part and os.path.join() to add the "data/foo.dat" part.

If that's not enough, please post some kind of code snippet
to help explain things better.

-Peter


From daniel at syrinx.net  Tue Oct 12 07:50:44 2004
From: daniel at syrinx.net (Daniel Ellison)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:50:44 -0400
Subject: Dict lookup shortcut?
In-Reply-To: <ckgfl4$a9$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <ckgfl4$a9$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2t1uifF1q15srU1@uni-berlin.de>

M. Clift wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Can someone tell me is there a shorthand version to do this?
> 
> l1 = ['n1', 'n3', 'n1'...'n23'...etc...]
> 
> Names = {'n1':'Cuthbert','n2' :'Grub','n3' :'Dibble' etc...}
> 
> for name in l1:
>     print Names[name],
> 
> Rather than listing all the name+numbers keys in the dictionary can these
> keys be shortened somehow into one key and a range?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> M
> 
> 

I'm not sure what you're trying to do, but you should probably be doing 
this instead:

names = {'n1':'Cuthbert', 'n2':'Grub', 'n3':'Dibble'}

for key in names.keys():
     print names[key],

No need for the initial list. Alternatively, you could just have all the 
names in a list to start with and iterate over that:

names = ['Cuthbert', 'Grub', 'Dibble']

for name in names:
     print name,

Dan

NB: all code untested


From i_munoz at euskalnet.net  Fri Oct  1 07:52:54 2004
From: i_munoz at euskalnet.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1igo?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:52:54 +0200
Subject: Python libraries for playing MP3 files
Message-ID: <415D4516.4010207@euskalnet.net>

Hello everybody:
    I am newbie in python. I am searching libraries in python capable of 
playing MP3/OGG files, stopping and so on. I don't know if that is 
possible using python.

    That was my doubt. Thank you for your answers


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Oct 17 15:40:25 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:40:25 -0500
Subject: interface boilerplate
Message-ID: <m2lle56sly.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>


In matplotlib, a plotting library with an OO API and a matlab-like
procedural interface, I have a lot of functions defined in the matlab
interface module that wrap similarly named class methods defined in
the Axes class of the axes module.  Eg, the Axes class defines a plot
method and the matlab interface defines a plot function that gets the
current Axes instance, calls the plot method on that instance, and
does some error handling.  Here is the matlab interface wrapper (gca()
returns the current Axes instance)

def plot(*args, **kwargs):
    try:
        ret =  gca().plot(*args, **kwargs)
    except ValueError, msg:
        msg = raise_msg_to_str(msg)
        error_msg(msg)
    else:
        draw_if_interactive()
        return ret
plot.__doc__ = Axes.plot.__doc__

This is mostly boilerplate code that a lot of matlab interface
functions use, and I'd like to automatically generate it.

This appears to (mostly) work

def _wrap_axfunc(name):
    def wrapper(*args, **kwargs):
        try:
            func = getattr(gca(), name)
            ret =  func(*args, **kwargs)
        except ValueError, msg:
            msg = raise_msg_to_str(msg)
            error_msg(msg)
        else:
            draw_if_interactive()
            return ret
    wrapper.__doc__ = getattr(Axes, name).__doc__
    #wrapper.__name__ = name
    return wrapper

plot = _wrap_axfunc('plot')

The only problem I've seen so far is that the name of the function in
pydoc string is 'wrapper', and I want it to appear as "plot".  I tried
setting the __name__ attribute, but it is read only.

Any suggestions on how to best define these matlab interface functions
by automatically wrapping the Axes instance functions?  I'd like to
support python2.2 so python2.2 compliant solutions especially welcome.

JDH


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Oct 14 13:46:15 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:46:15 -0500
Subject: get list of callable methods
Message-ID: <m2brf56vmg.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>


What is the best way to get a list of all functions actually defined
in a module, ignoring those functions that the module may have
imported but not defined?

The following gets a list of all the callables, but includes functions
that some.module imports

funcs = []
for o in dir(some.module):
     if o.startswith('_'): continue
     p = getattr(some.module, o)
     if not callable(p): continue
     funcs.append(p)

 


JDH


From klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de  Wed Oct  6 03:10:53 2004
From: klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de (Klaus Neuner)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 00:10:53 -0700
Subject: re bug
References: <3e96ebd7.0410050057.29a15174@posting.google.com>
	<cjtsa1$860$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3e96ebd7.0410052310.7fc1bff1@posting.google.com>

> Yes. Use signal.alarm(). See:
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/node304.html

Thank you very much. You saved me a lot of time.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 11 08:16:01 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:16:01 -0400
Subject: (solved)  smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4597.1097260343.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <00ab01c4ad2a$bfe9aa90$ccbefea9@twilliams><41668EDD.8090808@holdenweb.com>	<00e701c4ad3f$b5e78390$ccbefea9@twilliams>
	<mailman.4597.1097260343.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416A7981.1060601@holdenweb.com>

Tim Williams wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tim Williams" <listserver at tdw.net>
> 
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com>
> 
> [snip]
> 
>>Yeah,  I did wonder about changing the code  (though it's not my first
>>choice. I've done it before and caught a crab later),   or could I do it
>>with Subclassing?
>>
[...Tim fixes smtplib...]
> 
> Took me about 4 minutes !!
> 
> now I can call s.debug()  and get a list containing the debug information.
> s.debug() can be called at anytime including after s.quit()
> 
> As a side benefit,  I can use s.do_debug( msg ) at any time to get the
> program to add (comment) lines to the debug information.  This will be
> useful when reading the full retrieved debug information at a later date.
> 
> set_debuglevel() works exactly as it did before.
> 
> I have to tidy up the formatting/handling of the messages,   and I think I'm
> going to add an option to retrieve  the debug information without the
> message data (as its usually superfluous to the debugging process) , but
> other than that it does just what I need already.
> 
> Is it worth asking for something like this to be added permanently to
> smtplib,  I can't be the only one that needs to log outgoing smtp
> conversations,  or debug to a file/log ?
> 
> Thanks for everyone's help
> 
Correct action under these circumstances would be to submit a patch. 
This sounds intimidating of you've never done it before, but the process 
isn;t that difficult once you've created your SourceForgew account, and 
there are meny experienced hands on the list who will help you if you 
get stuck.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119



From lonetwin at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 08:38:19 2004
From: lonetwin at gmail.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:08:19 +0530
Subject: Example of how to use logging for both screen and file
In-Reply-To: <du7mzy8z7m7.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <du7acufgcr9.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.5320.1098454525.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2e37dc1.0410221237.2609dcad@posting.google.com>
	<2e37dc1.0410230702.38bb4912@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5550.1098868906.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7mzy8z7m7.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <5a309bd3041027053844d82610@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ville,
On 27 Oct 2004 15:08:16 +0300, Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
> >>>>> "Steve" == Steve  <lonetwin at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>     Steve> flog = logging.getLogger("mylog")
>     Steve> slog = logging.getLogger("mylog.slog")
> 
> I'm a logging newbie, but -
> 
> You shouldn't "get" loggers according to the "log name", but rather
> the application area name. I.e.
> 
> log = logging.getLogger("myApp")
> 
> And then add different handlers to the same log object. I.e. don't
> create several loggers, create several handlers for the same Logger
> object, as I did in the initial example of this thread (just
> substitute StreamHandler w/ sysloghandler).
      I do understand that. The code above was just an example. What I
do want is, different loggers for different areas of the application.
let me explain that.
      All the components in the system would have to log to syslog,
some components additionally would log to other places (like files).
So, for example:

core_app_logger = logger.getLogger('core')
sub_component_logger = logger.getLogger('core.sub_component')

core_app_logger.addHandler(logging.handler.SysLogHandler())
sub_component_logger.addHandler(logging.FileHandler('/tmp/sub_comp_log")

Now, because of the way logging is designed, any message sent to
sub_component would also get handled by the core-logger's handler
(SysLogHandler). ....or so it would seem ...I still haven't got the
SysLogHandler working :(


Regards
Steve




> 
> 
> 
> --
> Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From charleshixsn at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 26 21:33:49 2004
From: charleshixsn at earthlink.net (Charles Hixson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:33:49 -0700
Subject: What does [...] mean?
Message-ID: <417EFAFD.6090509@earthlink.net>

I'm getting a list that I build which when printed is displaying, well, 
e.g.:
d = << ['electronic', 'path', 'open', 'for', 'the', 'next', 'reader', 
'.', [...], 'Do', 'not', 'remove', 'thi', '.', [...]] >>

Clearly I have a problem with the truncation of the final this, but what 
does the internal [...] mean?
It's generated by doing:
print "d = <<", d, ">>"

If it matters, I'm using Python 2.3.4 on Linux.



From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct  5 00:08:05 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:08:05 GMT
Subject: Miscellaneous personal prejudices (was: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! -
	weekly Python news and links (Oct 4))
References: <cjsh6t$m6u$1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <36i932-lr5.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <cjsh6t$m6u$1 at lairds.us>,
Ville Vainio <python-url at phaseit.net> wrote:
			.
		[lots of other important
		and exciting material]
			.
			.
>    Jacek Generowicz is looking for a metaclass that would allow
>    introducing several methods with the same name in a class, spawning a
>    long and educational thread about metaclasses and learning a simpler
>    way of achieving the goal using the upcoming decorator syntax.
>        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=tyfekkoeyk2.fsf%40pcepsft001.cern.ch
			.
			.
			.
>    Srijit Kumar Bhadra posts a version of the same program using
>    PythonNet, IronPython and Boo, showcasing the similarity in the way
>    code is written.
>        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=221d8dbe.0409302041.3798265d%40posting.google.com
			.
			.
			.
>    control applications. A discussion about the sorry state of software
>    for industrial control in general, and the suitability of Python in
>    particular ensues. People actually seem to have plans for improving
			.
			.
			.
>    Andrew Kuchling would like to see the focus of Python development
>    moving away from hacking the interpreter and towards improving the
>    standard library. 
>        http://www.amk.ca/diary/archives/cat_python.html#003382
			.
			.
			.
Magazines have definite appetites for, among other things,
articles of the "What's new in Release 2.x and how to make
best use of it" and "X-ing with three different technologies:
concrete examples of good style" sorts.

I feel responsible for escalating the pugnacity of the process-
control thread.  That adds to my responsibility to clarify:  FAR
more than any narrow technical complaints about the software of
industrial automation I have, I'm ready to take over as dictator
and change the *approach* of the vendors.  It's not so much that
I think the applications and libraries are bad, as that they're
senselessly closed and ludicrously misdocumented.  In general. 
In my opinion.

Finally, AMK is soooooooo right.  His statement is so perfect, 
even I can't find anything to add to it.  


From moof at boof.moof  Mon Oct 11 05:47:48 2004
From: moof at boof.moof (Roose)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:47:48 GMT
Subject: String replace with return value?
Message-ID: <8Fsad.11445$nj.10631@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

How can I do a "".replace operation which tells me if anything was 
actually replaced?

Right now I am doing something like:

if searchTerm in text:
	text = text.replace( searchTerm, 'other' )

But to me this seems inefficient since the 'in' operation will search 
through the whole string, and then the 'replace' will as well.

The strings are quite large, they're whole web pages.  Thanks for any help.

Roose


From cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu  Wed Oct 13 13:58:21 2004
From: cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu (Christopher J. Bottaro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:58:21 -0500
Subject: MySQLdb exception documentation...?
Message-ID: <ckl4e6$rov$1@sea.gmane.org>

The MySQLdb (mysql-python) documentation doesn't really cover which
functions (methods) throw what exceptions.  Where can I find this info? 
Development is such a pain when unhandled exceptions keep halting the
program!

Thanks for the help.



From wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de  Wed Oct  6 02:46:30 2004
From: wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:46:30 +0200
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<du71xgjpsay.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<z5nr98uuk2l4.ul5xbcv4hq6x.dlg@40tude.net>
	<r8ydncR5KordxcDcRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1skb5kv22vk9g$.pxvuoyw24hel.dlg@40tude.net>

Am Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:14:40 -0400 schrieb Peter L Hansen:

> Wolfgang Keller wrote:
>> There seem to be some Python bits out there, for example MatPLC and
>> Lintouch use Python and some commercial products as well (PyDACHS), but
>> unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a more or less consistent library
>> for industrial automation or a coordinated effort to build up one.
> 
> What, in your opinion, would it take to start one?  

Work? >:->

A SIG would already be more than nothing, then start to set up a site with
a few links to things that are already available (whether free or
commercial), then start to collect things which are open-source and/or
free, then start to improve them and complete what's missing andsoon...

I have a dream :-): A Python library for industrial automation that is as
complete and well-documented as, for example, twisted for TCP/IP
communication.

You need an OPC server/client? - Import a module, instantiate a class and
there you go.

You need to talk <insert_your_favorite_fieldbus_here>? Same procedure...

Ah yes, and obviously have Python ported to all those RTOSes and embedded
controllers (PowerPC, StrongArm/XScale, MIPS, SH)...

RRRRRIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGGG - Uh, what?! Already time to get up and go to the
office? - Please NO! >:->

Best regards,

Wolfgang Keller


From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Oct 25 15:25:41 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:25:41 GMT
Subject: 2 questions about scope
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5443.1098730662.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <slrncnq5fr.dam.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>	<20041025105736.0B0D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5443.1098730662.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Vqcfd.6994$KJ6.2012@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Neal D. Becker wrote:
> Actually, these don't introduce a block in c++ either.  The braces do.

In C++

for (int i=0; i<100; spam(i), ++i)
    ;

the 'i' is in the for statement's scope even though there
are no braces.

To respond to the OP's question, one big difference between
C++ and Python's scoping systems is that Python doesn't have
a distinct variable declaration.  In C++ you could say

{
   char i[] = "something";
   ...
   for (int i=0; i<100; i++) {
     ...
   }
}

and the compiler knows you want a new variable 'i'.

In Python, the equivalent might be

   i = "something"
   for i in range(100):
     ...

There's nothing to tell Python that the 'i' used
in the for statement is different than the i in the
outer scope, so it assumes you meant the same variable.

The only scopes created in Python are for modules,
classes, and functions.  As I pointed out a couple
weeks ago, you could fake scope with a class statement,
as in

   i = "something"
   class scope:
     for i in range(100):
       ...

but you really shouldn't.  Or use a function scope,

   i = "something"
   def scope():
     for i in range(100):
       ...
   scope()

I mostly use the last when I want some non-trivial
initialization in my module and don't want the various
variables hanging around in the process space.  I'll
also follow it up with a "del scope" so that no one
can reference the initialization code.


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sun Oct 31 16:37:50 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:37:50 -0200
Subject: Python in Free Music Software
In-Reply-To: <40a939c9.0410310827.112f13a1@posting.google.com>
References: <40a939c9.0410291820.fada696@posting.google.com>
	<40a939c9.0410310827.112f13a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904103113373b9698f0@mail.gmail.com>

Why not post this list on the main Python Wiki? It seems something
nice to have there...

On 31 Oct 2004 08:27:56 -0800, Alia Khouri <alia_khouri at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I just realized how badly worded the subject line of the prior posting
> was on this topic... ;-)
> 
> Anyways,
> 
> Here's an update to the list (which is not comprehensive at this
> stage), but which includes items that haven't been mentioned in Pypi
> or in Parnassus:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > Here are the results (in no particular order) of an informal survey of
> > open-source / free music applications which use python in some form or
> > the other. If you know of any other other examples please add them to
> > the list.
> >
> > Enjoy (-;
> >
> > AK
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Survey of use of Python Language in Open-source / Free Music Software
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > pymps
> > http://www.anti-particle.com/pymps.shtml
> > Pymps is the PYthon Music Playing System - a web based mp3/ogg
> > jukebox. It's written in Python and utilises the PostgreSQL database.
> >
> > m3ute2
> > http://sourceforge.net/projects/m3ute2/
> > m3ute2 is program for copying, moving, and otherwise organizing M3U
> > playlists and directories. m3ute2 can also generate detailed reports
> > about lists of files.
> >
> > fmod
> > http://www.fmod.org/
> > FMOD is the fastest, most powerful and easiest to use sound system on
> > Windows, Linux, and Windows CE there is,   and now Macintosh,
> > GameCube, PS2 & XBox!. FMOD supports 3d sound, midi, mods, mp3, ogg
> > vorbis, wma, aiff, recording, obstruction/occlusion, cd playback
> > (analog or digital), cd ripping, mmx, internet streaming, dsp effects,
> > spectrum analysis, user created samples and streams, synchronization
> > support, ASIO, EAX 2&3, C/C++/VB/Delphi and more.
> >
> > pysonic
> > http://pysonic.sourceforge.net/
> > pySonic is a Python wrapper around the high performance, cross
> > platform FMOD sound library. You get all the benefits of the FMOD
> > library, but in a Pythonic, object oriented package.
> >
> > PMIDI
> > http://sourceforge.net/projects/uncassist
> > The PMIDI library allows the generation of short MIDI sequences in
> > Python code.The interface allows a programmer to specify songs,
> > instruments, measures, and notes. Playback is handled by the Windows
> > MIDI stream API so proper playback timing is handled by the OS rather
> > than by client code. The library is especially useful for generating
> > earcons.
> >
> > PythonMIDI
> > http://www.mxm.dk/products/public/pythonmidi
> > The Python Midi package is a collection of classes handling Midi in
> > and output in the Python programming language.
> >
> > PythonSound
> > http://pythonsound.sourceforge.net/
> > The Python Sound Project aims to develop a productive community around
> > Python, Csound and other synthesis engines as tools for algorithmic
> > and computer assisted composition of electroacoustic music.
> >
> > AthenaCL
> > http://www.flexatone.net/athena.html
> > AthenaCL is an open-source, cross-platform, command-line program that
> > functions as both a pitch (class) set theory utility (capable of both
> > set and voice-leading modeling and analysis) as well as an
> > object-orientated, Python-scriptable algorithmic front-end to Csound.
> > Combining these features allows rapid and flexible scoring of Csound
> > instruments with the elegance of Python-written texture algorithms.
> > These simple algorithms allow the organization of pitch-materials by
> > ordered content-groups, employing 12-tone set-class and pitch-class
> > notations. Rather than writing its own music, AthenaCL is a
> > compositional assistant: the algorithms create complex textural
> > surfaces, leaving the limitless mixture and placement of these
> > textures and their attributes entirely in the hands of the composer.
> >
> > PyJack
> > http://www.a2hd.com/software/
> > This is a Python C extension module which provides an interface to the
> > Jack Audio Server. It is possible to access the Jack graph to perform
> > port connections/disconnections, monitor graph change events, and to
> > perform realtime audio capture and playback using Numeric Python
> > arrays. This is released under the GPL.
> >
> > Csound / CsoundVST
> > http://www.csounds.com/
> > Csound is a programming language designed and optimized for sound
> > rendering and signal processing. The language consists of over 450
> > opcodes - the operational codes that the sound designer uses to build
> > "instruments" or patches. Although there are an increasing number of
> > graphical "front-ends" for the language, you typically design and
> > modify your patches using a word processor. Usually, you create two
> > text files - a .orc (orchestra) file containing the "instruments," and
> > a .sco (score) file containing the "notes." In Csound, the complexity
> > of your patches is limited by your knowledge, interest, and need, but
> > never by the language itself. For instance, a 22,050 oscillator
> > additive synthesizer with 1024 stage envelope generators on each is
> > merely a copy-and-paste operation. The same goes for a 1 million voice
> > granular texture! Have you ever dreamed of sounds such as these? Well
> > in Csound you can. And in Csound these dreams can come true!
> >
> > dublin
> > http://seqdublin.sourceforge.net/
> > Dublin is an object oriented framework to generate events in pd. Every
> > objects is defined in python and then it interacts with other objects
> > in pure-data. The goal is not only the provide an external python
> > facility to pd but also to give the functionality of a sequencer. As
> > for the user interface, it uses Idle, the Python IDE to edit and run
> > event scripts.
> >
> > MusicKit
> > http://musickit.sourceforge.net/
> > The MusicKit is an object-oriented software system for building music,
> > sound, signal processing, and MIDI applications. It has been used in
> > such diverse commercial applications as music sequencers, computer
> > games, and document processors. Professors and students in academia
> > have used the MusicKit in a host of areas, including music
> > performance, scientific experiments, computer-aided instruction, and
> > physical modeling. Using the Python to Objective C bridge PyObjC
> > enables applications and utilities to be written in Python, an
> > interpreted object-oriented language.
> >
> > GNU Solfege
> > http://solfege.org/
> > GNU Solfege is a computer program written to help you practice ear
> > training.It can be useful when practicing the simple and mechanical
> > exercises.
> >
> > Snack
> > http://www.speech.kth.se/snack/
> > The Snack Sound Toolkit is designed to be used with a scripting
> > language such as Tcl/Tk or Python. Using Snack you can create powerful
> > multi-platform audio applications with just a few lines of code. Snack
> > has commands for basic sound handling, such as playback, recording,
> > file and socket I/O. Snack also provides primitives for sound
> > visualization, e.g. waveforms and spectrograms. It was developed
> > mainly to handle digital recordings of speech, but is just as useful
> > for general audio. Snack has also successfully been applied to other
> > one-dimensional signals. The combination of Snack and a scripting
> > language makes it possible to create sound tools and applications with
> > a minimum of effort. This is due to the rapid development nature of
> > scripting languages. As a bonus you get an application that is
> > cross-platform from start. It is also easy to integrate Snack based
> > applications with existing sound analysis software.
> >
> > Pygame
> > http://pygame.org/
> > Pygame is a set of Python modules designed for writing games. It is
> > written on top of the excellent SDL library. This allows you to create
> > fully featured games and multimedia programs in the python language.
> > Pygame is highly portable and runs on nearly every platform and
> > operating system.
> >
> > Pyper
> > http://www.stanford.edu/~andyszy/pyper/
> > Pyper is a musical development environment. It allows you to write
> > Python scripts that generates music in real-time. Pyper uses QuickTime
> > Musical Instruments for synthesis.
> 
> blue
> http://csounds.com/stevenyi/blue/index.html
> blue is a java program for use with Csound. It's interface is much
> like a digital multitrack, but differs in that there timelines within
> timelines (polyObjects). This allows for a compositional organization
> in time that seems to me to be very intuitive, informative, and
> flexible. soundObjects are the building blocks within blue's score
> timeline. soundObjects can be lists of notes, algorithmic generators,
> python script code, csound instrument definitions, and whatever
> plugins that are developed for blue. these soundObjects may be text
> based, but they can be completely GUI based as well.
> 
> ID3.py
> http://id3-py.sourceforge.net/
> This module allows one to read and manipulate so-called ID3
> informational tags on MP3 files through an object-oriented Python
> interface.
> 
> id3reader.py
> http://www.nedbatchelder.com/code/modules/id3reader.html
> Id3reader.py is a Python module that reads ID3 metadata tags in MP3
> files. It can read ID3v1, ID3v2.2, ID3v2.3, or ID3v2.4 tags. It does
> not write tags at all.
> 
> PyID3
> http://icepick.info/projects/pyid3/
> pyid3 is a pure python library for reading and writing id3 tags
> (version 1.0, 1.1, 2.3, 2.4, readonly support for 2.2). What makes
> this better than all the others?  Testing!  This library has been
> tested against some 200+ MB of just tags.
> 
> OSC.py
> http://web.tiscali.it/mupuxeddu/csound/OSC.py
> Python classes for OpenSoundControl library client functionality. The
> OSC homepage is at http://cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu/OpenSoundControl/
> 
> PMask
> Python implementation of CMask, a stochastic event generator for
> Csound.
> http://web.tiscali.it/mupuxeddu/csound/index.html
> 
> winmidi.pyd
> http://www.sabren.net/code/python/midi/
> A demo? of a python extension interfacing to the native windows midi
> libs. This was probably a development from this point
> http://www.sabren.net/rants/2000/01/20000129a.php3
> 
> PyMIDI
> http://www.hyperreal.org/~est/python/MIDI/
> The MIDI module provides MIDI input parsers for Python.
> 
> Nam: not about music
> http://www.quitte.de/nam.html
> A Python Extension for Digital Music Applications. Its purpose is
> Flexible realtime MIDI and audio processing and sequencing.
> 
> midi.py
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=3C0F67FE.96E7CAE8%40alum.mit.edu
> Python MIDI classes: meaningful data structures that represent MIDI
> events and other objects. You can read MIDI files to create such
> objects, or generate a collection of objects and use them to write a
> MIDI file.
> 
> hYPerSonic
> http://arrowtheory.com/software/hypersonic/index.html
> hYPerSonic is for building and manipulating sound processing
> pipelines. It is designed for real-time control. It includes objects
> for oscillators, filters, file-io, soundcard and memory operations.
> 
> pyTTS
> http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/uncassist
> pyTTS is a Python wrapper for the Microsoft Speech API (SAPI). The
> library requires Mark Hammond's  win32com extension and SAPI 5.1+.
> 
> see also:
>     The Vaults of Parnassus:
> http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py/63131194
>     Pypi: http://www.python.org/pypi?:action=browse&asdf=338
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 16:13:30 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 13:13:30 -0700
Subject: Pythonic function composition
References: <10nq3c4j3lst8e2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0410251213.546f70d6@posting.google.com>

How about some recursion?

def compose(f, *fns):
    if not fns:
        return f
    else:
        return lambda x: f(compose(*fns)(x))

...

>>> from math import *
>>> foo = compose(sin, sqrt, abs)   # sin(sqrt(abs(x)))
>>> foo(-((pi/2.)**2))
1.0

...or you could try it this way, which makes some assumptions about
function names, but will possibly run faster:

def compose(*fns):
    fnames = [f.__name__ for f in fns]
    expr = "%s(x%s" % ('('.join(fnames),')'*len(fns))
    return eval("lambda x: %s" % expr)


From richie at entrian.com  Tue Oct 12 05:37:10 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:37:10 +0100
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <416b9eed$0$11828$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<ck3ls6$62e$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<9fc58c06.0410111225.5e6a1662@posting.google.com>
	<1pDad.22529$5O5.5713@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<416b9eed$0$11828$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <169nm0ll2d5kek5j2p2kcl5f3iep6or4th@4ax.com>


[Nicolas, arguing for a free-threading Python]
> compare IO intensive (especially network IO) programs, the multi-threaded
> program wins.

The GIL is released during network IO.  Multithreaded network-bound
Python programs can take full advantage of multiple CPUs already.

(You may already know this and I'm missing a point somewhere, but it's
worth repeating for the benefit of those that don't know.)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Tue Oct 12 20:36:50 2004
From: abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Ajay)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:36:50 +1000
Subject: tkinter dialog box
Message-ID: <1097627810.416c78a2d2caf@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>

hi!

i need to write a dialog box that asks a user for a username when the
application starts up and another dialog box that asks the makes the user
choose a file and build a user model.

the way i want the dialog box is that the user should be unable to proceed
with the application until they complete the operation in the dialog box,
something like a JavaScript prompt. any ideas of how to go about designing
something like that.

thanks

cheers






----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Oct 19 20:48:39 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:48:39 -0700
Subject: popen and two-way communication
In-Reply-To: <3b091a1c.0410190355.5543b3e1@posting.google.com>
References: <cl1gmk$rgq$1@newshost.mot.com>
	<3b091a1c.0410190355.5543b3e1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10nbdakhv1indf2@corp.supernews.com>

cmkl wrote:

>You may be interested in the new subprocess module:
>
>1) PEP:
>   http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/whatsnew/node8.html
>
>2) source code:
>   http://www.lysator.liu.se/~astrand/popen5/
>
>3) Windows builds (pre Python-2.4):
>   http://effbot.org/downloads/#subprocess
>

This looks nice, but I suspect that it won't help the O.P.

Admittedly, I haven't tested subprocess.  But interacting with SSH or 
gpg or most other password-requesting programs doesn't work properly 
through pipes.  These programs read directly from the controlling TTY, 
rather than from stdin.  Pipes don't affect the controlling TTY, meaning 
that you'll *still* be prompted for the password. 

In short, some version of (or replacement for) Expect is probably still 
needed.  It is indeed too bad that pexpect won't work on Windows, or 
more accurately that the pty which pexpect relies on doesn't work on 
Windows...  (Fortunately for me, I need to run ssh on Linux, so pexpect 
should serve my purposes just fine.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From Sonny.Baillargeon at bmonb.com  Tue Oct 12 17:27:29 2004
From: Sonny.Baillargeon at bmonb.com (Baillargeon, Sonny)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:27:29 -0400
Subject: Reading struct with structs
Message-ID: <453D335C35136F4B8163C281D58BBD882DCA6B@NBNUNYCEXCH1.nesbittburns.ca>

I am trying to read in a C struct file that contains sub-structs as part
as the data definition.  For example:
	int	a	/* 4 bytes */
	int_t	b	/* custom struct */
	blah_t	c	/* custom struct */
	bing_t	d	/* custom struct */

The custom structs are arbitrary.  The struct module only allows me to
have strict C datatypes.  How can I read in a struct recursively given I
have to feed the struct.unpack?

Thanks,
Sonny


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From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Sat Oct  9 18:11:04 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 09 Oct 2004 18:11:04 -0400
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:

> On 2004-10-09, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for
> >> detecting if two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for
> >> strings shouldn't be supported. Am I missing something?
> >
> > The basic problem is that there is no obvious "xor on string" operation
> 
> Sure there is.  Strings have a boolean value, and the xor
> operation on boolean values is well-defined.

That's an operation, but I'm not sure that's the obvious one.  For my
part, if I saw "string1 ^ string2" I'd probably expect a byte by byte
xor with the result being a new string.

It doesn't feel natural to me to have my strings suddenly interpreted
as a new data type based on the operation at hand.  Logical operators
work that way but not numerics (it would be in the same vein as string
+ number interpreting the string as a number - that way lies Perl :-))

-- David


From noone at here.com  Sun Oct  3 19:39:17 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 00:39:17 +0100
Subject: append to  items  depending on prior item
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjp8of$b9i$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cjpeah$vb9$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjpgdn$ic6$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cjq2fj$abu$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi Peter,

Any chance you could point me in the direction of that Alex Martelli's post?
Can't seem to find it anywhere.

Thanks,

Malcolm




From http  Sat Oct  2 16:38:39 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2004 13:38:39 -0700
Subject: Reclaiming (lots of) memory
References: <87lleo6hva.fsf@thomas.local> <7xr7ogeu4t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7xekkgetyo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
>           apple pie
>           apple computer
>           apple pie
>           apple sauce

That of course should have said

>           apple computer
>           apple pie
>           apple pie
>           apple sauce

since the file is sorted.


From MornIHATESPAMThdr at NOSPAMverizon.net  Wed Oct 13 02:43:32 2004
From: MornIHATESPAMThdr at NOSPAMverizon.net (Wes S.)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 06:43:32 GMT
Subject: Intercept and Tag STDOUT values
References: <AG1bd.5304$YU4.1564@trnddc06>
	<yR1bd.5306$YU4.4228@trnddc06><59e9fd3a04101222204b7f90f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4809.1097645400.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <o84bd.2662$y71.1432@trnddc02>

Many thanks for the first reply of help.

On this second part, I don't fully understand what you mean...I am, as I
have previously stated, pretty new to Python and have not yet learned
anything about file operations.

-Wes

"Andrew Durdin" <adurdin at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.4809.1097645400.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Further to my last reply: perhaps a better solution overall would be
> to create a class (let's call it TaggedFile) that supports the
> appropriate methods for file-like behaviour, and wraps any file
> (keeping a reference to it in the "wrapped_file" attribute) with the
> tagging you want. Then to do the actual redirection:
>
> tagged_stdout = TaggedFile(sys.stdout)
> sys.stdout = tagged_stdout
> # other code here
> sys.stdout = tagged_stdout.wrapped_file
>
> It will then be much clearer that the redirection is occurring.




From jedp at ilm.com  Mon Oct 18 19:00:17 2004
From: jedp at ilm.com (Jed Parsons)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 16:00:17 -0700
Subject: Building email threads from unix mailboxes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5143.1098140097.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1098138259.303424.280500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5143.1098140097.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1098140417.646769.5240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>


Thanks.

Is the References header a running list of all the In-Reply-To headers
so far in the thread?



From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Thu Oct  7 13:50:34 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:50:34 -0400
Subject: Python Audio Module
Message-ID: <416581EA.6000508@fastmail.fm>

I'm looking for a Python module that will let me input wavs and spit out 
mp3s or oggs. 

Thanks.


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Thu Oct 21 18:16:31 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 15:16:31 -0700
Subject: Some more notes
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>

Ville Vainio:
>It's highly typical for the newbies to suggest improvements to the
>language. They will usually learn that they are wrong, but the
>discussion that ensues can be fruitfull anyway :-).

Few more notes on the language. I don't know if I can really suggest
improvements to the language... but I hope to learn something :-)

I think some things are better in Delphi/Pascal (like the := for
assignments instead of = and = for equality, that I suggested in the
my precedent notes):

1) The "print" and "printf" pair without automatically added spaces
between arguments, and with or without automatic newline, instead of
the current "print" command. Because adding lots of "+str()+" isn't
good for me (there's sys.stdout.write, but it's not built-in).
2) Adding "case var of:" can be useful.
3) "do while" (or "repeat until") can also be added, it's useful.
4) Maybe really raw strings RR"" can be added to avoid problems with
file paths on Win :-]

5) Inside function definitions, assignments of mutable types like this
can be forbidden and seen as errors by the interpreter:
def func(a=[1,2]):
    ...

6) Given:
a = [1]
a += [2]
a = a + [3]
The first assignment extends the list, and second creates a new list
and rebinds it. Why such difference for operations that look the same?
Isn't a kind of "error" to do different things with quite similar
looking commands?

7) There's something that I don't understand. I'm not a OOP purist,
but finding functions like this beside normal methods seems odd to me:
len(s) length of s
min(s) smallest item of s
max(s) largest item of s
For uniformity they can be:
s.len()
s.min()
s.max()
etc.

Thank you,
bear hugs,
Bearophile


From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  9 18:47:20 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 9 Oct 2004 15:47:20 -0700
Subject: My file browsing script
References: <pan.2004.10.09.05.29.35.109575@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0410091447.51921453@posting.google.com>

"Dfenestr8" <nospam at hotmail.com> wrote in message 
> Earlier I posted asking for a file browsing script, for a GUI app I'd
> written. Basically, I was after a graphical tool with which I could search
> for files on my disk, and would return the path of a file through the
> command line.
> I got no reply, either because I didn't describe the problem correctly, or
> because nobody could point me to such a script. So I wrote my own.
Well I am no tk expert(never used it) , but tkFileDialog() might be
what you want.
'http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=tkinter++file+selection+dialog&btnG=Search'

> Please have a look at it, and give me som tips on how to improve it. In
> particular, I designed it specifically for my linux system (Mandrake 10).
> If I could make it x-platform that would be good.
I did check out your script, and it looks nice and works quite well on
win2k Py2.2.
I think that means it **is** x-platform :)
Nice work.
HTH,
   M.E.Farmer


From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Wed Oct 13 13:22:09 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 10:22:09 -0700
Subject: windows
References: <mailman.4811.1097649067.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <21064255.0410130922.8b8009c@posting.google.com>

Ajay <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.4811.1097649067.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> hi!
> 
> i have two tkinter windows on top of each other. i would like it so that
> the user has to complete the fields in the top windows before they can
> interact with the window below it. that is, i dont want the user to close
> the top window or minimize it or send it into the background.
> 
> how would i do it?
> 
> thanks
> 
> cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

There are documentations which say that Tkinter.Toplevel has
a methode .transient(root) which should make the Toplevel window
transient to its root window.
But I never managed to make it work.(W2K Python 2.2.2).
But here is a hackaround:

import Tkinter

#----------------------
def deiconify(widget):
#----------------------
  widget.deiconify()
  widget.grab_set()

#----------------------
def withdraw(widget):
#----------------------
  widget.grab_release()
  widget.withdraw()

# The root window
root=Tkinter.Tk()

# The Toplevel window
tl=Tkinter.Toplevel(root,width=400,height=200,bg='white')

# Withdraw Toplevel, when destroyed
tl.protocol("WM_DELETE_WINDOW",lambda w=tl:withdraw(w))

# Make Toplevel not resizable
tl.resizable(width=False,height=False)

# Default state of Toplevel is withdrawn
tl.withdraw()

# Give Toplevel window a title
tl.title('Toplevel-Window')

# A Button on the root window to make Toplevel window visible
Tkinter.Button(root,text='Toplevel on',command=lambda w=tl:deiconify(w)).pack()

# Start mainloop
root.mainloop()

Regards
Peter


From no at spam.net  Sun Oct 10 04:27:32 2004
From: no at spam.net (Fadly Tabrani)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:27:32 +0800
Subject: Creating a window from PyHandle? Possible?
Message-ID: <ckaq81$50h$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

Hi guys,

This is the first time I'm posting to the newsgroup, hope you can help out.

I'm writing a module to interface with the task scheduler in windows
using PyWin32. Everything has been great so far but I'm stuck on
displaying the propertys page of a task. Here's the code:

import pythoncom
import win32api
from win32com.taskscheduler import taskscheduler
import win32ui

task_scheduler = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance\
                           (taskscheduler.CLSID_CTaskScheduler,
                            None, pythoncom.CLSCTX_INPROC_SERVER,
                            taskscheduler.IID_ITaskScheduler)

def show_schedule_page(task_name):

         TASKPAGE_TASK = 0,
         TASKPAGE_SCHEDULE = 1,
         TASKPAGE_SETTINGS = 2

         try:
             task = task_scheduler.Activate(task_name)
         except pythoncom.com_error, e:
             print 'Task name not found...'
             return

         # ** This returns a PyHandle
         handle = task.QueryInterface(taskscheduler.IID_IProvideTaskPage).\
                  GetPage(1, True)

         # ** Can't create a window with it using win32ui, returns error
         try:
             win32ui.CreateWindowFromHandle(handle)
         except win32ui.error, e:
             print e

         # ** Can't add it to a property sheet, return an error
         property_sheet = win32ui.CreatePropertySheet('Task Schedule')
         try:
             property_sheet.AddPage(handle)
         except (win32ui.error, TypeError), e:
             print e

show_schedule_page('task1')

Any ideas on how to do it? The task schduler api reference is at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/taskschd/taskschd/task_scheduler_start_page.asp

I'm pretty new at this, is there anything that I've missed out?

Cheers,
Fadly Tabrani
python loves me loves python


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 14:10:08 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:10:08 -0300
Subject: [Web-SIG] WSGI async API
In-Reply-To: <20041015180602.4730.1637681532.divmod.quotient.123@ohm>
References: <864d3709041015105131652057@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041015180602.4730.1637681532.divmod.quotient.123@ohm>
Message-ID: <864d370904101511107d3f3a05@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:06:02 GMT, exarkun at divmod.com <exarkun at divmod.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:51:54 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:24:19 -0400, Peter Hunt <floydophone at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Essentially, Twisted.Web gives you something like this:
> > >
> > > class MyResource(resource.Resource):
> > >     def render(self, request):
> > >         return "content here" # you could also do request.write("content here")
> > >
> > > If you do an async call, you have to use request.write() to write the
> > > data, return server.NOT_DONE_YET from the render() method, and call
> > > request.finish() to finish the request.
> >
> > Just curious, so forgive me from jumping into the middle of the
> > discussion. Isn't this one of the scenarios where output generators
> > are most useful? Assuming that Twisted supported it, you could yield
> > lines until there were nothing else to write. Did I get it right?
> >
> 
>   Only if you can also signal to the code which is iterating the generator that it should stop iterating it for a while, otherwise user code might be called upon for bytes before they are available.
> 
>   If I have understand the conversation on the matter then this caveat is a main stumbling block for the async wsgi api.

Now I think I get it. Generators have only two "states" of sort:
either they can return more lines, or they stop. But the async API
wants to have a three-state signaling protocol: ready to provide more
lines, no more lines, and a "please, wait a second while I prepare
more lines".

That's it?

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Oct 13 07:33:26 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:33:26 -0400
Subject: locks
In-Reply-To: <1097665551.416d0c0f7bef5@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>
References: <1097665551.416d0c0f7bef5@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <416D1286.5020802@bellsouth.net>

Ajay wrote:

>hi!
>
>what would happen if i try to access a variable locked by another thread? i
>am not trying to obtain a lock on it, just trying to access it.
>
>cheers
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>  
>
I may be wrong, but I'm not sure you can lock a variable.  Actually, you 
probably could do something like "locking a variable" with 
__getattr__(), __setattr(), and __delattr__() and sprinkling gently with 
locks.  The locking mechanisms in the thread and threading libraries 
(allocate_lock() and Lock() respectively) lock sections of code.  When 
you hit a section of code you want locked, you do a <lock>.acquire() and 
when you want to unlock an acquired lock, you do a <lock>.release().  If 
you have a variable in a section of code that you have locked, you can 
still see/smell/taste/touch/modify it from another thread if you can 
access it.  So, if you've passed an object to multiple threads and one 
has acquired a lock to a specific section of code, another thread can't 
enter that section of code until the first releases the lock.  But, if 
you have the same object in a different section of code, you can execute 
that unlocked code that contains/points-to the object.

HTH,

Jeremy Jones


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 17:13:16 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:13:16 -0400
Subject: _winreg problem
Message-ID: <ck4bhc$ll3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

The below function fails with this error:
ValueError: Could not convert the data to the specified type.

The problem appears to be the v variable. When I make v an int, I get:
WindowsError: [Error 5] Access is denied. This makes sense to me as the 
_winreg docs says that value (v) in SetvalueEx should be a string, but I 
do not understand why it  gives the "ValueError" error when I make it a 
string. Also, I can do one key (Log) at a time, but not iterate over all 
of them like I'd like to do. I've checked it with print statements... 
every thing looks right.

Any suggestions?

def log_limits():       ## 18
     ## For winXP SP2 & Python 2.3.4
     ## set log limits on EventLogs, keep guests out of logs and set 
them to overwrite as needed.
     logs = ['Application', 'Security', 'System']
     vals = {'Retention':'0', 'MaxSize':'10223616', 
'RestrictGuestAccess':'1'}
     for l in logs:
         x = r"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Eventlog\%s" % l
         ## This print shows I'm iterating of the logs correctly.
         print x
         key = OpenKey(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, x)
         for n,v in vals.iteritems():
             ## This print shows I'm associating the value pairs with 
each Log
             print n,v
             ## Here is where the failure occurs... the v at the end:
             SetValueEx(key,n,0,REG_DWORD,v)
         CloseKey(key)


From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Oct  5 06:52:43 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:52:43 +0200
Subject: XML and UnicodeError
References: <Xns9578AE59045A7devnulloo@130.133.1.19>
	<5339b60d.0410050013.6bbc673d@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957977C1D83A7devnulloo@130.133.1.19>
Message-ID: <just-EE3837.12524305102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <Xns957977C1D83A7devnulloo at 130.133.1.19>,
 Pinke Panke <dev at null.oo> wrote:

> >   2. Convert any other text to Unicode as soon as possible.
> 
> Ok, i.e.
> 
> headline = structure[0] # is unicode
> pagetext = structure[1] # is unicode
> fill = "bar".encode('utf-8') # lets make it unicode

That's not making it unicode; you mean

  fill = unicode("bar", "utf-8")

(Or "bar".decode("utf-8"), which does the same; I prefer using the 
unicode builtin.)

> foo = headline + fill + pagetext # foo is unicode, too
> 
> ?
> 
> >   3. Manipulate only Unicode values - don't mix them up with
> >      plain strings.
> 
> It makes sense, but I need some string concatenations. E.g. I set 
> default values in the python script and try to concatenate them with 
> XML values.
> 
> But now, I would think the safest way is to transfer all plain strings 
> in the python script into a second XML file and use them, because 
> after reading in they would be in Unicode. Right?

Yes, but there's no need to. Are you perhaps using string literals 
containing non-ascii chars, yet don't use the 'u' prefix? u"\xff" as 
opposed to "\xff".

> Or saving the python script in utf-8 would make the difference?

Depends...

> >   4. Serialise to your chosen encoding only when preparing
> >      output.
> 
> Every string concatenation in my script is preparing output.

Do _all_ manipulations using unicode, and convert to utf-8 as late as 
poosible, ie. when you're passing the result to code that expects 
non-unicode data. That's basically what he was saying.

Just


From dev at null.oo  Tue Oct  5 05:46:21 2004
From: dev at null.oo (Pinke Panke)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 09:46:21 GMT
Subject: XML and UnicodeError
References: <Xns9578AE59045A7devnulloo@130.133.1.19>
	<5339b60d.0410050013.6bbc673d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns957977C1D83A7devnulloo@130.133.1.19>

Hello Paul,

thanky you for your answer.

> The solution is to use Unicode throughout.

I thought so, but it seemed to me not easy enough.


>   1. Let minidom provide you with Unicode values.

Yes, I assume this is the default behaviour of the minidom parser.


>   2. Convert any other text to Unicode as soon as possible.

Ok, i.e.

headline = structure[0] # is unicode
pagetext = structure[1] # is unicode
fill = "bar".encode('utf-8') # lets make it unicode
foo = headline + fill + pagetext # foo is unicode, too

?

>   3. Manipulate only Unicode values - don't mix them up with
>      plain strings.

It makes sense, but I need some string concatenations. E.g. I set 
default values in the python script and try to concatenate them with 
XML values.

But now, I would think the safest way is to transfer all plain strings 
in the python script into a second XML file and use them, because 
after reading in they would be in Unicode. Right?

Or saving the python script in utf-8 would make the difference?

>   4. Serialise to your chosen encoding only when preparing
>      output.

Every string concatenation in my script is preparing output.

I am looking forward to your answer.

Martin


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct 13 09:13:07 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 13:13:07 GMT
Subject: strange side effect with lists!?
References: <mailman.4817.1097656352.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glllnv.9f2gdijdroqgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416d22ac.152182767@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <Xns95818F1BD36F5duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> I got curious:
> 
> >>> L = range(5)
> >>> L
>  [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> 
<various manipulations of a recursive data structure snipped>
 
> I'm impressed ;-)
> 

I find it impressive that recursive data structures involving builtin 
types manage to avoid printing out infinite regressions of themselves.

>>> class C:
    def __init__(self, val):
        self.val = val
    def __repr__(self):
        return "<C %s>" % self.val

>>> l = range(5)
>>> l
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> c = C(l)
>>> c
<C [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]>
>>> l[2] = c
>>> l
[0, 1, <C [...]>, 3, 4]
>>> c
<C [0, 1, <C [...]>, 3, 4]>




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 27 15:48:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:48:07 -0400
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA@rogers.com>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <C62dnYO2h5XrZuLcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>

Dan Perl wrote:
> Michael, I have one comment in-line (see below), but other than that I can 
> only say that I chose GPL for my own project.  It may discourage use of my 
> code for commercial purposes but it might even be pretentious to expect that 
> something like that would ever happen.  On the other hand, I was more 
> interested in the advantages of open-source and I wanted to enforce that as 
> much as possible.  I did some research of my own at the time (recently, 
> actually) but I didn't go much into details and I didn't study other 
> licenses in detail either, but I chose GPL in large part because it is the 
> most widely used.

This seems like an appropriate post to which to attach a reference
to a nice article contrasting the GPL and the Mozilla Public License
(MPL): http://croftsoft.com/library/tutorials/gplmpl/

Summary of that essay, in the words of its author:
   "I state in this essay that MPL is more free and open than GPL."

-Peter


From pynode at centrum.cz  Fri Oct 29 05:02:42 2004
From: pynode at centrum.cz (MJR)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 02:02:42 -0700
Subject: Real-time graphs
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
	<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote in message news:<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>...
> On 2004-10-28, MJR <pynode at centrum.cz> wrote:
> 
> > just wondering what options I would have if I wanted to use Python to
> > produce real-time graphs.
> 
> What do you mean by "real-time"?
> 
> If you want to display a "live" waveform at 50fps, then I'm not
> aware of anything.

Need to display data read from telemetry systme. Data might change in
order of 1000/s. Not every sample will be displayed, but still need
something close to 100sps


From cmedcoff at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  6 21:15:37 2004
From: cmedcoff at hotmail.com (cmedcoff at hotmail.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:15:37 -0400
Subject: logging question
Message-ID: <H4KdnaUM3fVIBfncRVn-sQ@wideopenwest.com>

I going through my first attempt at using the new logging facilities.  I
would like to have log output go to both a file and std error and perhaps
email as well.  Is there a handler that allows this sort of multiple outputs
capture or will a custom handler have to be written?




From mickel at csc.fi  Mon Oct 11 08:20:48 2004
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:20:48 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Regular expression for matching IPA characters in Unicode?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0410111518090.31350@sampo.csc.fi>

Hi Pythoneers,

Which is the best way of checking that a given unicode string only 
contains IPA characters, e.g. characters in the range \u0250-\u02AF?
I guess a regular expression would do it, just can't figure out how to 
implement that expression.

Code snippets are most welcome.

Best regards,

Mickel Gr?nroos

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland,
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi

From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 15 07:36:51 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:36:51 +0200
Subject: How to python raw socket ????
References: <cko3dl$91d$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <ckocp5$bs0$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Leon wrote:

> have any relate module ??
> or write example ??
> 
>   .>_<.
> 
> Please help me


http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html 
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-socket.html
http://www.google.com/

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Oct 19 16:35:19 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:35:19 -0500
Subject: Free hosting for Python open-source projects
In-Reply-To: <864d370904101914067b7a1728@mail.gmail.com> (Carlos Ribeiro's
	message of "Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:06:36 -0300")
References: <864d370904101914067b7a1728@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2y8i2bg54.fsf@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Carlos" == Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> writes:

    Carlos> I'm sure this question has been posted before, but the
    Carlos> answer will probably be out of date, so here it goes.

How about an October 11th posting on the same topic with 4 reponses

Google is your friend

 1) http://groups.google.com

 2) hosting group:*python* -> "Google Search"

 3) Sort by date

The 5th or so link, "Where to host an open source project?
Sourceforge? " discusses hosting, with subversion information, etc....

JDH


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 19 00:06:35 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 04:06:35 GMT
Subject: [Python-Dev] ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <20041018104036.0A2B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<2EE12B0A-212F-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com>
	<20041018120633.0A3D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5133.1098129122.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41743f3a.161450203@news.oz.net>
	<mailman.5146.1098145370.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4174814f.178367739@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:22:47 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:43:16 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>> Has anyone discussed using the csv module as the basic file interface for config data?
>
>I believe that CSV files are better suited for regular, table-like
>information, not for the type of data that is normally stored on INI
>files.
Why?

[segment]
sym=something
sam=other

maps trivially to

seg,segment
dat,sym,something
dat,sam,other

etc. E.g.,

 >>> import csv, sys
 >>> for line in csv.reader(sys.stdin): print line
 ...
 seg,segment
 dat,sym,something
 dat,sam,other
 # a comment

 segname
 ,sym,something
 ,sam,somthing
 # might be an alternative
 ^Z
 ['seg', 'segment']
 ['dat', 'sym', 'something']
 ['dat', 'sam', 'other']
 ['# a comment']
 []
 ['segname']
 ['', 'sym', 'something']
 ['', 'sam', 'somthing']
 ['# might be an alternative']

Very easy to deal with.
If you wanted an object with two-level attribute for access like conf.segment.sym, it would
be easy to build, e.g., (admittedly not very robust in this little demo hack ;-)

 >>> import csv, sys
 >>> conf = type('ConfData',(),{})()
 >>> for line in csv.reader(sys.stdin):
 ...     if not line: continue
 ...     if line[0]:
 ...         seg = type('SegData',(),{})()
 ...         setattr(conf, line[0], seg)
 ...         continue
 ...     setattr(seg, line[1], line[2:])
 ...
 segment
 ,sym,sym value
 ,sam,sam value
 seg2
 ,a_float,f,1.0
 ,an_int,i,123
 seg3
 ,msg1,how about this?
 ,msg2,pretty trivial
 ,msg3, ;-)
 ^Z
 ^Z
 >>> vars(conf).keys()
 ['segment', 'seg3', 'seg2']
 >>> vars(conf.segment).keys()
 ['sam', 'sym']
 >>> vars(conf.seg2).keys()
 ['a_float', 'an_int']
 >>> vars(conf.seg3).keys()
 ['msg1', 'msg3', 'msg2']

So we have the hierarchy:

 >>> conf.segment.sam
 ['sam value']
 >>> conf.seg2.an_int
 ['i', '123']
 >>> conf.seg3.msg3
 [' ;-)']

Obviously one could have recognized ['i', '123'] and made conf.seg2.an_int == 123
instead of a list. This is very expandable. E.g., it's not hard to imagine what
    ['img','url=http://www.python.org/pics/pythonHi.gif']
might mean as to how to get and convert such a data spec.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Oct 21 12:45:22 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:45:22 +0200
Subject: htmldata and python 2.2
References: <cl8lor$75j$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
Message-ID: <just-08A519.18452221102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <cl8lor$75j$1 at license1.unx.sas.com>,
 "Tim Arnold" <tiarno at sas.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to get htmldata.py (written with Python 2.3 in mind) to work with
> Python 2.2.  Thanks much to Paul Clinch for showing me how to convert
> for i, text in enumerate(L)
> to
> for i, text in zip(range(len(L)),L)
> 
> I have one more glitch in getting htmldata.py to work in Python2.2:
> Can someone show me how to recode this without the finditer?
> 
> L = list(re.finditer(r'url\s*\(([^\r\n\("]*?)\)|' +
>                          r'url\s*\(\s*"([^\r\n]*?)"\s*\)', doc))
> 
>  The doc says re.finditer is available in 2.2, but I'm guessing it must be
> in a minor version update (e.g., 2.2.3). Anyway, I'm getting this error in
> the Traceback:
> 
>  L = list(re.finditer(r'url\s*\(([^\r\n\("]*?)\)|' +
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'finditer'

Seems you're hitting http://python.org/sf/585882, a bug that was fixed 
in 2.2.2. You could use re.findall() instead.

Just


From moexu13 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 14:39:47 2004
From: moexu13 at gmail.com (M. Bitner)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:39:47 -0700
Subject: Slow debugging with Komodo
In-Reply-To: <cle83h$fmt$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <417a8d3e$0$1161$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
	<cle83h$fmt$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <57c312d3041023113963ddf453@mail.gmail.com>

Are you running the Symantec corporate AV client? I have trouble with
both Python and PHP in Komodo and there's at least one other
unconfirmed reporting of a software conflict with Symantec.

http://bugs.activestate.com/show_bug.cgi?id=27433

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:32:17 +0000 (UTC), Jarek Zgoda
<jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> wrote:
> Will McGugan <news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com> pisze:
> 
> > On my dev machine (P4 1.7Ghz Win2K) debugging with Komodo is painfuly
> > slow. There is a delay of several seconds when stepping over a single
> > line of code. Debugging the same code with Pythonwin is very quick. Does
> > anyone else experience slow debugging, and is there anyway to speed it up?
> 
> Didn't notice such weirdness, but Komodo is rather RAM-hungry so better
> close as many other programs as you can, turn off all IDE features that
> you don't need. Oh, and BTW, 512MB RAM is "reasonable minimum"...
> 
> --
> Jarek Zgoda
> http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/
> 
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Oct 16 21:17:54 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:17:54 -0700
Subject: Message from exception raised in generator disappears
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5066.1097968980.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5066.1097968980.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4171cd3d$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Mike Brown wrote:
> I thought I was being pretty clever with my first attempt at using generators, 
> but I seem to be missing some crucial concept, for even though this seems to 
> work as intended, the text of the exception message does not bubble up with 
> either of the ValueErrors when one of them is raised.
> 
> 
> # This helps iterate over a unicode string. When python is built with
> # 16-bit chars (as is the default on Windows), it returns surrogate
> # pairs together (unlike 'for c in s'), and detects illegal surrogate
> # pairs. Byte strings are unaffected.
> def chars(s):
>     surrogate = None
>     for c in s:
>         cp = ord(c)
>         if surrogate is not None:
>             if cp > 56319 and cp < 57344:
>                 pair = surrogate + c
>                 surrogate = None
>                 yield pair
>             else:
>                 raise ValueError("Bad surrogate pair in %s" % s)
>         else:
>             if cp > 55295 and cp < 57344:
>                 if cp < 56320:
>                     surrogate = c
>                 else:
>                     raise ValueError("Bad surrogate pair in %s" %s)
>             else:
>                 surrogate = None
>                 yield c
>     if surrogate is not None:
>         raise ValueError("Bad surrogate pair at end of %s" % s)
> 
> 
> # as expected, returns u'example \xe9...\u2022...\U00010000...\U0010fffd'
> ''.join([c for c in chars(u'example \xe9...\u2022...\ud800\udc00...\U0010fffd')])
> 
> # now test the 3 exception conditions. Each produces a ValueError
> ''.join([c for c in chars(u'2nd half bad: \ud800bogus')])
> ''.join([c for c in chars(u'no 1st half: \udc00')])
> ''.join([c for c in chars(u'no 2nd half: \ud800')])
> 
> 
> All 3 result of the exception tests result in a bare ValueError; there's no 
> "Bad surrogate pair in" message shown. Why is thta? What am I doing wrong?

The problem is that type('abc%s' % u'\udc00') is unicode, not str.
Change your raises to something like:
          raise ValueError("Bad surrogate pair at end of %r" % s)
and the you can relax.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sat Oct 23 12:31:56 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:31:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<1098414642.736428.8940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<clc3j6$bf9$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ma1ln0th2tm9mgisbjckqo7bg927l6l8sd@4ax.com>

On 22 Oct 2004 19:03:02 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> >solves all my problem" people I have seen haven't worked on anything
> >"large" -- and my definition of large agrees with Alex's; over 100
> >kloc, more than a handful of developers.
> 
> So you're saying that both attributes are necessary?  

I think they are because both people and code issues arise on
'large' projects (see the Mythoinal Man Month for examples
of each type), although all things are relative. Our local
definition of project size is:

< 100Kloc  = small
100K-1Mloc = Medium
> 1Mloc = large

We try to keep the large projects to less than 10 at any one
time...

Staffing sizes are 1-6 on small projects
4-30 on medium and typically 30-500 on large ones
(I'd guess most large projects are actually around 2-3 MLoc 
and have about 60-100 developers (inc dedicated testers).

Our most common project size is 200-300K with about 10-20
developers. (and the preferred methodology is DSDM) We probably
have about 30-50 such projects running at any one time.

On that scale I use Python for prototyping "components" on 
the medium-large stuff but it all gets built in C++ or Java.
The small projects could be in Perl, VB/ASP, PL/SQL or Java.
(Sadly Python is not an approved language for production -
yet...I'm working on it :-)

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/tutor2


From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Oct 22 01:25:49 2004
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:25:49 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python and generic programming
In-Reply-To: <20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410220909400.3665@suzi.com.onego.ru>



Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Josiah Carlson wrote:

>
> > I wonder, does Python support generic programming paradigm, and to
> > what extent (I guess, it doesn't do it in full)? And (or) does it move
> > in that direction? Will we ever see
> >
> > concept WellAlright:
> >    ...
> >
> > constructs in Python?
> > Isn't it right time to reserve "concept" as a keyword ;-)
>
>
> Perhaps you meant something different, but  C++ style generic (template)
> programming is not necessary in Python.

Most Python programs are already kinda generic, yes. But generic
programming adds multi-sorted types control and constraints to ensure type
safety...

> With decorators, there is an easy method for generating per-argument
> type checking and dispatch for functions and methods.
>
> As Python does runtime type checking, if you care to support different
> types of arguments even without decorators, one is able.
>
>  - Josiah
>


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 11:07:51 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:07:51 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <1gl6dmb.1jpp8u61a9ojk1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>	<uko932-mrd.ln1@lairds.us>
	<1gl6dmb.1jpp8u61a9ojk1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4162B8C7.2090903@cloudthunder.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

>Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.us> wrote:
>   ...
>  
>
>>>>31. Concepts of Protocols (whereby one may organize related methods into
>>>>        
>>>>
>   ...
>  
>
>>>No.  Test-driven development is the norm in Python.
>>>      
>>>
>>                      .
>>... but see <URL: http://www.pypackage.org/packages/python-dbc >
>>for one among several DbC initiatives.
>>    
>>
>
>...and PEP 246 for Protocols (and more relevantly, pluggable
>adaptation).  Eby's PyProtocols implements these ideas (and more); my
>talk given earlier this year at OSCON (on masquerading and adaptation
>design patterns in Python) has a short section on PEP 246, you should
>find the PDF at www.strakt.com.
>
>
>Alex
>  
>
Oh great, Python has nearly everything, you just have to add on 
modules.  Not bad, pretty cool actually.  If use this PyProtocols will 
my program be slower than if protocols were built-into the language?


From dgargan at sbcglobal.net  Mon Oct 18 00:29:29 2004
From: dgargan at sbcglobal.net (digidalmation)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 04:29:29 GMT
Subject: mod_python apache configuration issues
Message-ID: <JEHcd.18465$Qv5.4308@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>

Hello all.  I've been trying to get my linux server to run mod_python.
It's a Mandrake 10 linux box, and apache/mod_python are installed from rpms.
apache2-mod_python-2.0.48_3.1.3-1mdk
apache2-2.0.48-6mdk


The rpm installed the python module as:
/usr/lib/apache2-extramodules/mod_python.so

And added a config file for apache:
/etc/httpd/conf.d/16_mod_python.conf

The apache config files contained the following before my modifications:
<IfDefine HAVE_PYTHON>
   <IfModule !mod_python.c>
     LoadModule python_module    extramodules/mod_python.so
   </IfModule>
</IfDefine>
<IfModule mod_python.c>
</IfModule>

Now after reading the docs installed into /usr/share/doc for mod_python
and going through the directions at python.org, I've also changed the
config file to add a few lines to one of the directives:

<Directory /var/www/html>
     Options -Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews
     AllowOverride All
     AddHandler mod_python .py
     PythonHandler mptest
     PythonDebug On
</Directory>

Now when I put the url into a browser:
http://myserver.mydomain.com/mptest.py

I get a popup from the browser because it doesn't know how to handle
mptest.py, and it asks what you want to do with the file (open it with
an application, save it to disk, etc).  I can choose to open the file
with a text editor, and all it shows is the text "hello world".

That's the output of the mptest.py script....  apache isn't feeding the
browser the code from the mptest.py, only the output.  (Otherwise when I
open it in a text editor I'd see the entire mptest.py script.

Contents of the mptest.py script:
from mod_python import apache

def handler(req):
         req.write("Hello World!")
         return apache.OK

I'm not a python developer, but have been working with Linux and Apache
for a number of years.  I'm not sure where to go from here.  It appears
that the script gets compiled - there is a mptest.pyc file in the
directory now.  Why is it sending my browser the mptest.py file with the
  stdout of the script?

Thanks in advance.  Any help on this is appreciated.

Dave




From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Tue Oct 19 08:18:49 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:18:49 +0200
Subject: execvp() on Solaris
In-Reply-To: <f197302b.0410180514.4c38809b@posting.google.com>
References: <f197302b.0410180514.4c38809b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41750465$0$4029$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

mikeSpindler wrote:
> I've seen it addressed in searching, but not specifically what is
> recommended to get around it.  On Linux where I did my development all
> was fine.  But then going to Solaris for the target I found I couldn't
> resolve the errors wrt execvp().  It's apparently not syntax, but I
> could be wrong.  Any other thoughts on how to get execvp() working
> and/or how to cat a file in a new window without bringing tkinter into
> the discussion?
> 
> My example:
>   os.system("xterm -geometry 120x20 -e \"tail -f ./logs/DATAFILE\"&")
> 
> Thank you!
> Mike

Stupid question first: does the command work in a shell? Because AFAIK, there is 
no xterm installed by default under Solaris. The terminal is called dtterm and 
is located in /usr/dt/bin.

I tried the exact same thing you're doing on Solaris 2.7 with Python 2.1 and got 
no error at all:

Python 2.1.1 (#13, Dec 10 2003, 10:31:34)
[GCC 3.2.2] on sunos5
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import os
 >>> os.system('/usr/dt/bin/dtterm -geometry 120x20 -e '
               'tail -f /var/log/samba/log.smb &')
0

So I can only repeat what others already told you: please send the exact error 
messages you get, or we won't be able to help you much...
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Oct 11 11:34:55 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:34:55 -0700
Subject: Help needed: try/except -idiom vs. C-style coding
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F5F@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

pekka niiranen wrote:
> I have defined function that calls another functions like this
> (modified for this mail):
> 
> def main_function():
>      if not function1():
>          m = "main_function: function1 failed"		
>          print_error(m)
>          return False
>      if not function2():
>          m = "main_function: function2 failed"		
>          print_error(m)
>          return False
>      if not function3():
>          m = "main_function: function3 failed"		
>          print_error(m)
>          return False
>      return True
> 
> In book "Learning Python 1st edition" is was said
> that this C-style programming is bad practice
> and should be replaced with structure:
> 
> def main_function():
>      try:
> 	function1():
> 	function2():
> 	function3():
>      except:
> 	what_ever()
> 	return False (?)
>      else:
> 	return True (?)
> 
> How can I use try/except -style if I want to know WHICH
> of functions 1-3 failed in try: -section and print
> that information? What should functions return in order to
> a) raise an exception and
> b) tell main_function "it was me who failed for this reason"
>     This message should be user specific.

If you care which function failed, you should narrow the exceptions:

def main_function(a, b, c):
    try:
        function1(a)
    except IndexError:
        print "function1 failed"
        return False
    
    try:
        function2(b)
    except IOError:
        print "function2 failed"
        return False
    
    try:
        function3(c)
    except (TypeError, ValueError):
        print "function3 failed"
        return False
    
    return True


It's also good practice to specify which errors you expect as above;
bare "except:" has its place, but it's a rare one.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From ed18hg at brllsouth.net  Sun Oct 24 09:59:53 2004
From: ed18hg at brllsouth.net (ed18hg)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:59:53 -0400
Subject: Is this group for newbies?
References: <DINed.193222$as2.133033@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.5387.1098623691.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5yOed.193303$as2.58841@bignews3.bellsouth.net>

Thanks. I'll go there.

"andrea valle" <andrea.valle at unito.it> wrote in message 
news:mailman.5387.1098623691.5135.python-list at python.org...
Tutor list is exactly what you need.
You can find the address on python.org -->  mailing list

Best


-a-

On 24 Oct 2004, at 15:02, ed18hg wrote:

> I'm looking for a Python newbie group. I don't want to get flamed by 
> asking
> in the wrong place.
> Thanks
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facolt? di Scienze della Formazione
Universit? degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle at unito.it




From listserver at tdw.net  Wed Oct 20 12:53:44 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:53:44 +0100
Subject: POP text/plain
References: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B34@iron.ima.umn.edu>
	<00a301c4b696$5f325420$ccbefea9@twilliams>
Message-ID: <016601c4b6c5$5c881050$ccbefea9@twilliams>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Williams" <listserver at tdw.net>
>
> "LutherRevisited" <lutherrevisited at aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20041020010134.07554.00002191 at mb-m18.aol.com...
> > Ok, what I do for most email messages is get the content that is type
> > 'text/html', which is 99% of my messages, and with string functions I
can
> get a
> > string from that which is only html code.  But, for plain text messages,
> the
> > part which is text/plain doesn't really leave me with anything I can
think
> of
> > to get a substring from that which is only the body of the message.  I
> always
> > end up with header and all when I display a plaintext message.  Any
> thoughts?
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
>
>
> Use the email module to split any email into its "parts",  then work with
> the parts individually

[snip bad code]

After further thoughts on this, and time to wake-up properly

(its still untested,  but better than the last example  and should give you
something to build on)

import email as e
import mimetypes
from email.MIMEText import MIMEText

msg = e.message_from_string(whole_msg)
new_payload = []

if not msg.get_content_type() == 'text/plain':
    for part in msg.walk():
        if part.get_content_maintype() == 'multipart':
            continue
        if part.get_content_type() == 'text/plain':
            new_payload.append(part)  # keep this part

    if not new_payload:
        new_payload = [MIMEText('\t\tText-only filter was applied\r\n')]

    msg.epilogue = ''
    msg.set_payload(new_payload)

print msg



From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 23:12:07 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 20:12:07 -0700
Subject: python file versioning
References: <940ee3e8.0410250506.1d679430@posting.google.com>
	<cliv0l$ah6$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5425.1098714195.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clj363$acl$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410251912.3baaaaf3@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message news:<clj363$acl$05$1 at news.t-online.com>...

> file mod_22:
> from __future__ import nifty_feature
> import bar
> 
> file mod_23:
> import bar
> 
> 
> app.py:
> 
> import sys
> 
> if sys.version_info[:2] == (2,2):
>     import mod_22 as mod
> else:
>     import mod_23 as mod
> 
> 
> So I think I showed the OP a way to deal with version-dependencies.

that's a quite a bit of work. i'm talking about automating this


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Mon Oct 18 12:30:57 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:30:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it> <m3pt3gca1b.fsf@g2ctech.com>
Message-ID: <cl0r41$m76$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Jorge Godoy <godoy at ieee.org> wrote:
> "Riccardo Rossi" <riccardo.rorssi76 at email.it> writes:

>> Hi all!
>>
>> How does Python pass arguments to a function? By value or by reference?

> IIRC, by reference.  It uses a copy on write algorithm. 

Copy-on-write is an optimization.  It doesn't affect the semantics of
the laguage.


From .  Fri Oct  8 14:11:50 2004
From: . (pythonnewbie)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:11:50 +0100
Subject: Python Newbie. Python on PPC, please assist.
Message-ID: <2qudnV1KKuD7RfvcRVnyhg@pipex.net>

Hi All. I'm just starting to learn programming using Python. I am new to
programming so please be patient with me!
I found this for Pocket PC:
http://www.murkworks.com/Research/Python/PocketPCPython/PPCPythonR2Notes
I tried installing it and for some reason it would not work. Having
installed it,  clicking on the program gives the error "PocketPCPython.exe
or one of it's components cannot be found", even though I am directly
clicking on the exe, and even after much fiddling making sure all the files
are there.
I'm not a newbie as far as pda's go, so I'm a little confused as to why it's
not working.
What I really want to know though, is what it actually, does before I go
about spending time getting it working. I mean, is it a development
environment, like IDLE, or does it just install the Python libraries so you
can run Python programs on a PPC, or what? As I said, I am a complete
programming newbie so sorry if I'm talking rubbish.
I'd be really greatful if someone could tell me what the Python PPC program
is/does. Also if there are any other (better) programs for Python on PPC.
And if anyone has any ideas why the install didn't work on the PPC, I'd be
greatful for advice on that too.
Many thanks in advance.




From waldbie at verizon.net  Mon Oct 18 19:52:55 2004
From: waldbie at verizon.net (Carl Waldbieser)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:52:55 -0400
Subject: How to disable urllib2 HTTP proxy on Windows?
Message-ID: <4174577a@post.usenet.com>

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

When using urllib2.urlopen() on my Windows 2000 machine at work, I was
puzzled that I kept getting back authentication errors from our Internet
proxy server (I was trying to contact an internal machine).  Upon digging
into the code a little, I found that urllib2 was pulling the proxy
information out of the Windows registry (Internet Explorer uses these
settings).  However, the browser also had settings to disable use of the
proxy for local addresses, and any specific addresses or wildcards I gave
it.  urllib2 seemed to be ignoring those.

In the Python library reference, I read that setting the HTTP_PROXY
environment variable could set a proxy, as could installing a new opener. 
However, I tried to turn off proxy support by setting HTTP_PROXY="", and I
got an error for my trouble (don't recall exact error right now-- am at
home on my GNU/Linux system).  Is it possible to turn off proxy support in
Python while leaving the browser settings untouched?  I was really quite
surprised when I found out that Python was using the browser's proxy
settings on my behalf.

Thanks,
Carl Waldbieser

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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From anna at aleax.it  Fri Oct  1 11:41:40 2004
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Martelli Ravenscroft)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:41:40 GMT
Subject: __author__
In-Reply-To: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>
References: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <UUe7d.39869$35.1839915@news4.tin.it>

David Keeney wrote:
> I see this set (or similar) of variables in various modules I read. 
> They are found near the top of each module file, outside of any class
> or function definitions.
> 
> "
> __author__ = "Software Authors Name"
> __copyright__ = "Copyright (C) 2004 Author Name"
> __license__ = "Public Domain"
> __version__ = "1.0"
> "
> 
> What is the function of this set of variables?  I assume there are
> software products that use these, (Python itself, perhaps), that
> expect to find certain variables explained.
> 
> What are the expected variables, other than the ones listed above, and
> what software would I expect to use them?
> 
> David


You may be seeing those in modules that were packaged up with distutils. 
The setup.py expects certain metadata about the distribution,including 
those you've listed above. A list of the expected values is available on 
page 562 of _Python in a Nutshell_, or in _Distributing Python Modules_ 
section 3, accessible at thttp://docs.python.org/dist/dist.html

HTH,
Anna



From da_mueller at gmx.net  Thu Oct 21 09:59:19 2004
From: da_mueller at gmx.net (Daniel Mueller)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:59:19 +0200
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
In-Reply-To: <2tpq8vF20rf1rU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch> <2tpq8vF20rf1rU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cl8fe5$43h$1@news.imp.ch>

Oliver Fromme wrote:

> The portable way is to stat the file (see os.stat) every
> 10 seconds, look at the mtime (modification time), and
> if it did change, then open/read/close.  

hmm i'll have to rephrase my question... i KNOW that the file changes 
every 10 seconds... easiest would be i just give you the source code ;)
the program is a nice little windows which displays ACPI information 
about battery status and stuff like that. the program is working just 
fine. but i want the performance tweak it...

here is the link to the source code:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=108369&package_id=117073

help would be greatly appreciated!

> If you're lucky enough to work on a FreeBSD UNIX system
> (and don't need a portable solution)

Linux Platform... and no i dont need a portable solution


-- 
Please use my GnuPG (PGP) Public-Key for secure message exchange.
(http://157.161.155.222/damueller-pubkey.txt)


From jfdutcher1958 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 14:35:39 2004
From: jfdutcher1958 at yahoo.com (jfdutcher1958)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:35:39 -0000
Subject: Invalid port number in request for  secure site web page
Message-ID: <cl3mpr+qdbq@eGroups.com>


Python returns this message:

InvalidURL: nonnumeric port: '//www.a2webhosting.com:2083/frontend/x2'

in reponse to the call below ....but the port number looks 
numeric  ???

***************************************************************
import sys, httplib
showlines = 56
try:
    servername, filename = sys.argv[1:]           # cmdline args?
except:
    servername, filename 
= 'https://www.a2webhosting.com:2083/frontend/x2', '/index.html'
    
print servername, filename






From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Mon Oct 18 15:12:27 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 19:12:27 GMT
Subject: Yahoo SMTP
References: <2tgn1sF1vnm4fU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20041018151227.11669.00002008@mb-m15.aol.com>

Thanks for the reply, recently I have tightened up my code to now reach the
point where my ISP can reject me on port 25...LOL  I am curioius about AUTH, I
have no idea how this is done and have seen no mention of it in the module
index under smtplib.  If anyone could point me to where I should look for info
on that I'd be grateful.


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 19 16:03:39 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:03:39 GMT
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<cl0umu$kdm$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<cl0v8o$8a4$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<mailman.5126.1098122988.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl11jf$r9$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<mailman.5131.1098126770.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glvhih.mackqd12vhs62N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<20041018133211.0A4B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<8C8685E8-2199-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5182.1098207637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glx9lf.1yxrkv519qs7tkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41757057.239559708@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:15:21 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
>
>> > > I agree with most everything you have said, though consider the pointer
>> > > vs. value of C to define the semantics of the passing.  That is, if you
>> > > get a pointer in C, it is by reference.  If you don't get a pointer, it
>> > > is by value.
>> > 
>> > I disagree: you get the value of the pointer.  If you assign to the
>> > barename of the pointer, this has no effect on the caller.
>> 
>> [snip the remainder of the email]
>> 
>> Sounds good.  Now with the semantic arguments out of the way, is there a
>> link where the equivalent of what was just said is available in the
>> documentation?
>> 
>> If yes, great.  If not, perhaps what has been discussed should be
>> slimmed down and inserted into the FAQ so that future generations don't
>> need to rehash this conversation.
>
>Sure, but it's a vain hope -- 2 out of 3 questions asked here ARE about
>stuff well covered in the FAQ, anyway.
>
I keep thinking there should be a tech fix for part of this problem. E.g.,
if interactive python help supported help(faqtopic='whatever') and that
automatically used urllib to search the latest faq (caching stuff perhaps)
and produced a topic-oriented HTML page with links to likely faq items, and
started a browser to display it ...
Hm, sounds like google with a site restriction. Maybe faq should live on
faq.python.org and help(faqtopic='...') could leverage that?

Anyway, the other part is feeding good stuff like your posted explanations
into the faq. I keep thinking a little posting markup of some sort could
make automated harvesting of c.l.py archives for faq snippets possible.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Oct 14 14:46:37 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 14:46:37 -0400
Subject: Quixote vs mod_python
References: <pan.2004.10.14.06.43.56.912668@large.net>
Message-ID: <ckmhid$2ph$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <pan.2004.10.14.06.43.56.912668 at large.net>,
flab ba  <flab at large.net> wrote:
>
>Can somebody sway me one way or the other ? What would Quixote give me
>that mod_python + Cheetah doesn't?

Quixote is "inside-out" compared to most templating approaches: you
write Python code that emits strings to create web pages.  Cheetah is no
different from PHP in that you start by writing a web page as your
framework and then add code.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct  5 00:14:20 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:14:20 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041004211329.ECBF.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


I should have waited with my reply.

If I could take the message back, I would.

 - Josiah



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 10:15:22 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:15:22 -0300
Subject: Example of how to use logging for both screen and file
In-Reply-To: <du7acufgcr9.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <du7acufgcr9.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <864d37090410220715423af1d7@mail.gmail.com>

On 22 Oct 2004 15:26:18 +0300, Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
> Just posting this for the sake of google:
> 
> Like everyone else, I figured it's time to start using the 'logging'
> module.
> 
> I typically want to dump "info" level (and up) log information to
> screen, and "debug" level (and up) to a log file for in-depth
> analysis. This is for scripts, so date/time/severity information is
> not wanted. I assumed such a simple use case would have an example in
> the docs (py 2.4), but no luck.
> 
> Here's what worked for me:
> 
> import logging
> 
> def setupLogging():
>     global log
>     log = logging.getLogger("myapp")
>     log.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
>     sth = logging.StreamHandler()
>     sth.setLevel(logging.INFO)
>     log.addHandler(sth)
>     fhnd = logging.FileHandler('/tmp/myapp.log')
>     fhnd.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
>     log.addHandler(fhnd)
> 
> setupLogging()
> 
> log.info("foo")  # appears on screen and file
> log.debug("bar") # appears in the file only
> 
> The example might not be ideal, but something like this should really
> be in the module documentation. The example config file mostly serves
> to intimidate would-be users ("I need to do *that*?!?), and many of
> them probably wouldn't want to introduce a third-party wrapper module
> either (I think that should be the point of the standard logging
> module after all).

I'm also beginning to get to grips with the logging module. My first
attempt was confusing, and I ended up removing it from the code. Now I
just have a simple log method that still calls print <message>. Not
exactly what I wanted to do :-P

My idea now is to write a clean and simple wrapper for the logging
module, using sensible defaults, and exposing simple methods.
Something like (still pseudo-code):

from simplelog import Logger

log = Logger(<logger-name>)
...
log.info(<msg>)
log.debug(<msg>)
log.warning(<msg>)
log.error(<msg>, exception=<optional-exception-object>)

It's a simple implementation that hides a lot of the options of the
standard logging module. Messages would be automatically written to
the most appropriate output channels, using sensible defaults. That is
more than enough for most of my logging needs. It's still in the
drawing board, though.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Thu Oct 21 20:59:41 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:59:41 -0700
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1098406782.6627.78.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 15:16 -0700, bearophile wrote:

> I think some things are better in Delphi/Pascal (like the := for
> assignments instead of = and = for equality, that I suggested in the
> my precedent notes):

Actually, since the assignment operator is used far more often than the
equality operator, making it require three keystroke rather than just
one is a bad idea.

> 1) The "print" and "printf" pair without automatically added spaces
> between arguments, and with or without automatic newline, instead of
> the current "print" command. Because adding lots of "+str()+" isn't
> good for me (there's sys.stdout.write, but it's not built-in).

Use string interpolation.  However, I agree having print as a statement
rather than a function is a (very small) wart.  Luckily it's easily
circumvented (and I've heard rumor that this is, in fact, slated to be
changed in Python 3000).

> 2) Adding "case var of:" can be useful.

Not familiar with this construct.  If you mean "switch/case" as in C (or
some variation of same), then I absolutely agree.

> 3) "do while" (or "repeat until") can also be added, it's useful.

Occasionally useful.  Not enough to put it high on my list of things I'd
like to see in Python, but I can see its utility for making *slightly*
more logical code (versus the "while True: if x: break" idiom).

> 4) Maybe really raw strings RR"" can be added to avoid problems with
> file paths on Win :-]

Not sure what problems you are referring to since I rarely use that
platform and the times I have used it I haven't had any issues.  Do you
mean issues with "\"?  Why not just use "/"?

> 5) Inside function definitions, assignments of mutable types like this
> can be forbidden and seen as errors by the interpreter:
> def func(a=[1,2]):

I don't see why valid Python syntax should be an error.  Admittedly this
quite often bites new users of Python, but there are plenty of things to
confuse newbies, so I don't know why this particular construct should be
singled out, especially when there is a perfectly valid explanation of
the resulting behavior.

> 6) Given:
> a = [1]
> a += [2]
> a = a + [3]
> The first assignment extends the list, and second creates a new list
> and rebinds it. Why such difference for operations that look the same?
> Isn't a kind of "error" to do different things with quite similar
> looking commands?

I'd agree this can be confusing.  However, like the mutable arguments
you mention previously, there is a logical explanation that suffices in
place of breaking tons of Python code.

> 7) There's something that I don't understand. I'm not a OOP purist,
> but finding functions like this beside normal methods seems odd to me:
> len(s) length of s
> min(s) smallest item of s
> max(s) largest item of s
> For uniformity they can be:
> s.len()
> s.min()
> s.max()
> etc.

I don't have a good answer for this. At least some of this is probably
pure history (len() worked on both strings and lists, and strings didn't
used to support methods, so I'm guessing it was a consistency issue back
then and it's a compatibility issue now, why it wasn't added as a method
is a good question).  As far as min() and max() <shrug>.  Perhaps to
avoid a plethora of methods on such commonly used constructs?  At what
point do you stop adding new methods to classes?  Perhaps the decision
was as simple as that.

> Thank you,
> bear hugs,
> Bearophile

That disturbs me every time I see it.


Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From jbellis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 22:47:32 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan  Ellis)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 19:47:32 -0700
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5177.1098203362.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5177.1098203362.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1098413252.045374.294760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Stephen Waterbury wrote:
> Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>
> > ...  A more-experienced co-worker pointed me in the right
> > direction, and the IDE did the rest.  ("Find definition," "Find
> > references.")  Grep can do much the same thing, but painfully
slowly --
> > and inaccurately, when you have a bunch of interfaces implementing
the
> > same method names.  ...
>
> Try "glimpse" (http://webglimpse.net) -- it uses a superset of
> grep's arguments and can search large collections of files at
> a single bound!  Re-indexing takes a few seconds, but doesn't
> need to be done unless there are major changes.

glimpse addresses grep's speed problem, but unfortunately has no more
semantic understanding beyond "it's just text."  Etags is a little
better but not much, and also suffers from the
have-to-remember-to-reindex-if-you-want-accurate-results "feature."
-Jonathan



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 16:15:57 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:15:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Using os.system() and string concatenation
References: <7a2229ee041012114353157c1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<ckh9kr$q16$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<7a2229ee04101212215fadcb18@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041012T221252-992@post.gmane.org>

Wayne Witzel III <wwitzel3 <at> gmail.com> writes:

> No, I was properly inserting the spaces. When I changed it to a print
> statement and executed the resulting output, it worked just fine.

Not sure if I understand exactly what you said here, but just to be clear, the 
print statement inserts spaces:

>>> x, y, z = 'x', 'y', 'z'
>>> print x, y, z
x y z
>>> x + y + z
'xyz'
>>> print x + y + z
xyz
>>> import sys
>>> sys.stdout.write(x + y + z)
xyz

So if you're saying the output of a print statement works, but the string 
concatenation doesn't then yes, it does sound like you're not inserting spaces.

Could you put

print cmd + list1[0] + list1[1] + list2[0] + list3[0]

at the end of your script and tell us what it outputs?

Steve





From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Oct 27 02:45:16 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:45:16 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <417ef4b9.863273391@news.oz.net>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<417ef4b9.863273391@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <0uHfd.3722$kM.2804@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> If you are willing to make your variables exist in an object's attribute
> name space, you can define almost any behavior you want.

Or, here's another solution -- make a number-like object which
handles range checking for every operation.


The big problem here is that unlike Ada, C++, or other languages
that let you declare variable types, I have to figure out how
to merge the allowed ranges of the two values during a binary op.
I decided to use the intersection.  Unlike Pythons ranges, I
choose low <= val <= high (as compared to low <= val < high).

import sys

class RangedNumber:
     def __init__(self, val, low = -sys.maxint-1, high = sys.maxint):
         if not (low <= high):
             raise ValueError("low(= %r) > high(= %r)" % (low, high))
         if not (low <= val <= high):
             raise ValueError("value %r not in range %r to %r" %
                              (val, low, high))
         self.val = val
         self.low = low
         self.high = high

     def __str__(self):
         return str(self.val)
     def __repr__(self):
         return "RangedNumber(%r, %r, %r)" % (self.val, self.low, self.high)

     def __int__(self):
         return self.val
     def __float__(self):
         return self.val

     def _get_range(self, other):
         if isinstance(other, RangedNumber):
             low = max(self.low, other.low)
             high = min(self.high, other.high)
             other_val = other.val
         else:
             low = self.low
             high = self.high
             other_val = other

         return other_val, low, high

     def __add__(self, other):
         other_val, low, high = self._get_range(other)
         x = self.val + other_val
         return RangedNumber(x, low, high)

     def __radd__(self, other):
         other_val, low, high = self._get_range(other)
         x = other_val + self.val
         return RangedNumber(x, low, high)

     def __sub__(self, other):
         other_val, low, high = self._get_range(other)
         x = self.val - other_val
         return RangedNumber(x, low, high)

     def __rsub__(self, other):
         other_val, low, high = self._get_range(other)
         x = other_val - self.val
         return RangedNumber(x, low, high)

     def __abs__(self):
         return RangedNumber(abs(self.val), self.low, self.high)

     def __mul__(self, other):
         other_val, low, high = self._get_range(other)
         x = self.val * other_val
         return RangedNumber(x, low, high)

     def __rmul__(self, other):
         other_val, low, high = self._get_range(other)
         x = other_val * self.val
         return RangedNumber(x, low, high)

     # ... and many, many more ...

Here's some code using it


 >>> a = RangedNumber(10, 0, 100)
 >>>
 >>> a
RangedNumber(10, 0, 100)
 >>> print a
10
 >>> a+90
RangedNumber(100, 0, 100)
 >>> a+91
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "spam.py", line 39, in __add__
     return RangedNumber(x, low, high)
   File "spam.py", line 8, in __init__
     raise ValueError("value %r not in range %r to %r" %
ValueError: value 101 not in range 0 to 100
 >>> a*5
RangedNumber(50, 0, 100)
 >>> 10*a
RangedNumber(100, 0, 100)
 >>> 11*a
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "spam.py", line 67, in __rmul__
     return RangedNumber(x, low, high)
   File "spam.py", line 8, in __init__
     raise ValueError("value %r not in range %r to %r" %
ValueError: value 110 not in range 0 to 100
 >>> 0-a
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "spam.py", line 54, in __rsub__
     return RangedNumber(x, low, high)
   File "spam.py", line 8, in __init__
     raise ValueError("value %r not in range %r to %r" %
ValueError: value -10 not in range 0 to 100
 >>> a-0
RangedNumber(10, 0, 100)
 >>> b = RangedNumber(18, 5, 20)
 >>> b = RangedNumber(18, 5, 30)
 >>> a+b
RangedNumber(28, 5, 30)
 >>>

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From bdp003 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 29 08:20:04 2004
From: bdp003 at hotmail.com (Bengt dePaulis)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:20:04 GMT
Subject: saving local dir
Message-ID: <Uzqgd.28998$g4.543141@news2.nokia.com>

I just started on python.

I have c:\python23\examples\py
and want to include that in my sys.path

How to do it permanently?

/Bengt
Helsinki




From rtilley at vt.edu  Sun Oct 17 10:23:09 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:23:09 -0400
Subject: See when process exits in Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <2tevsnF1v2svmU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <cksmq8$c7$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <cksn6d$1b8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<2tevsnF1v2svmU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4172804D.20904@vt.edu>

Tobias Pfeiffer wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> On 17 Okt 2004, Brad Tilley wrote:
> 
> 
>>def wait_for_ntbackup_to_exit(procname):
>>     while True:
>>         try:
>>             pids = \
>>             win32pdhutil.FindPerformanceAttributesByName(procname) 
>>             if len(pids) > 0:
>>                 ## If ntbackup is running, loop until it closes.
>>                 print pids
>>                 print len(pids)
>>                 print "ntbackup is running... waiting for it to
>>                 exit." continue
>>             else:
>>                 ## ntbackup is not running.
>>                 break
>>         except:
>>             return
> 
> 
> I have no clue about that win32pdhutil thingy but if it returns a list 
> with pids, then why do you need the except statement?

 From trial and error, I found that if this function runs when ntbackup 
isn't running that it would produce an error... that's the reason for 
the except. I can reproduce it if you want the exact error message.

  And it seems to me
> that this loops as fast as the CPU is able to, so it actually steals away 
> other processe's CPU time. If you insert a time.sleep(0.5) statement (or 
> something similar), you can decrease the CPU usage to a minimum.

You're right, I did this and it helps.


From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct  4 14:04:46 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:04:46 -0400
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
Message-ID: <416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>

Michael Sparks wrote:

>Arich Chanachai wrote:
>
>  
>
>>How hard/easy is it to extend the Python syntax? 
>>    
>>
>
>It's not that hard to do, but involves changing the compiler and if done
>properly a whole slew of other things. If you want non-functional syntax
>changes it's fairly trivial - just change the Grammar file and rebuild. 
>If you want a checklist of things you might want to look at when changing
>the syntax you could look at this patch : http://www.python.org/sf/1013835
>
>  
>
Are there tutorials on this?

>It's worth noting that this would probably result in a local overhead for
>yourself in maintaining a private branch of python however - since this
>changes your python in a fairly fundamental manner. I don't know what your
>use case is though - if it's experimentation then I suspect that you'd be
>happy with that :)
>
>  
>
:Local overhead???  Private branch???  How come?  I'm extending the 
language not adding another Python interpreter.

>>Perhaps there are macro facilities for this? 
>>    
>>
>
>Not that I'm aware of. (At least not as far as I know in the lisp or C
>meanings of the term)
>
>  
>
I was thinking Scheme.

>>I'd like to add messages and message passing, for example.
>>    
>>
>
>Why do you feel you need to extend the language for this? Why not (for
>example) overload <<, >> and similar operators? __lshift__, __rshift__ etc.
>I'd really recommend not extending the language unless you really don't have
>any option - unless that's what you're specifically interested in :)
>
>
>  
>
Not sure I understand you here.  I want to implement messages like in 
ObjC where if you send a msg to an object and that object does know what 
to do with it, it can send the obj automatically to another object which 
might know what to do with it.

Anyhow, there are other reasons as well.



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 18:26:04 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:26:04 -0300
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <20041005215749.GA5891@burma.localdomain>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<864d3709041003152471cf26fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041005215749.GA5891@burma.localdomain>
Message-ID: <864d3709041005152610162497@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:57:49 -0300, Gustavo Niemeyer
<niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:
> > 2) the signature of "def newmethod(self,i=i)" shows another
> > interesting side effect. The value if <i> (defined in the for loop) is
> > passed as a keyword paramenter, and is evaluated whenever the 'def'
> > statement is found. Because it changes, the def is re-run at every
> > loop. In the lack of this hack, the def would run only at the first
> > time, and all methods would in fact be the same.
> 
> That's not true. The def statement is rerun every loop, no matter
> what parameters are used. One can check that by issuing:
> 
> print MyClass.method0.im_func
> print MyClass.method1.im_func

:-P You *right*.  For some reason I was under the impression that the
code was not re-executed everytime -- a kind of optimization, indeed,
if the code does not have any external dependency. But you're right.

Anyway, this is a horrible hack :-) I just wrote it to point out that
classes are much more dynamic in their workings than most people
realize, *specially* if you come from a C++/Java/Delphi background.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct 13 03:47:42 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:47:42 -0700
Subject: Secure Python code - volunteers for code review?
In-Reply-To: <1097645158.10090.3.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <20041012205021.091B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<1097645158.10090.3.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <20041013004207.0921.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> > You can save yourself many concerns by encoding your data in some
> > fashion that cannot be understood by the database to mean anything.  Hex
> > works well for that.
> 
> A more straightforward way is to simply use prepare() religiously.  This
> also avoids the headache of having to decode your data if you use a
> different program to access it (such as psql or mysql).

Thankfully, other languages are able to translate to/from hex *wink*. 
Either way, unencoded/unprepared data may bork you.

 - Josiah



From paul at subsignal.org  Sat Oct  9 11:24:03 2004
From: paul at subsignal.org (paul koelle)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 17:24:03 +0200
Subject: still not happy with unittest.failUnlessRaises
Message-ID: <2sqe4iF1o3pstU1@uni-berlin.de>

hi folks,

while I got my own errors kind of sorted out now (I think), unittest
still not behaves like it should.

code:
print 'this is expected to fail. The "Type" column is unique in the DB'
self.failUnlessRaises(IntegrityError, self.failhelper(certs.Subcacert,
self.ca_client_tmpl))

traceback:
File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/SQLObject/DBConnection.py", line
767, in _queryInsertID  c.execute(q)
File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/sqlite/main.py", line 243, in
execute self.rs = self.con.db.execute(SQL)
IntegrityError: column type is not unique

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ran 1 test in 56.245s

FAILED (errors=1)

the docu (2.2) says:
failUnlessRaises( exception, callable, ...)
...The test passes if exception is raised, is an error if another
exception is raised, or fails if no exception is raised.

and:
issubclass(sqlite.IntegrityError, Exception)
True

IMO the test should pass. Any ideas what could be wrong here?

thanks
  Paul


From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Tue Oct  5 00:56:38 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 04:56:38 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4293.1096947506.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<KUo8d.3033$UP1.1475@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4303.1096948810.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162200b$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4310.1096950256.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncm4ac6.bmn.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:36:46 -0400,
	Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>>On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>>When I said "harsh", I meant being accused of trolling,
>>>attempting to annoy, stir trouble, etc.  None which was my
>>>intent nor did I think that my post would be interpreted as
>>>such (otherwise I wouldn't have posted it).
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>If you honestly didn't think you were being rude and weren't
>>going to annoy anybody, you really, really do need to read how
>>to ask questions the smart way.  c.l.p is a very kind place,
>>but should somebody as naive as you wander into the rest of
>>Usenet... well, I just don't like to think of what might
>>happen.
>>
>>  
>>
> Apparently it is not a matter of "smartly" but don't ask at all.

Part of asking smartly is not asking thousands of people to each spend
time reading an possibly answering a question that you could find the
answer to yourself with a minute of looking.

-- 
Sam Holden


From xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net  Tue Oct 26 10:37:07 2004
From: xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 14:37:07 GMT
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
References: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
	<mailman.5507.1098798686.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns958EA92284142PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> said :

> Rather that doing that, you might consider simply setting up a local
> IMAP server on your Linux box.  Have a program (such as fetchmail)
> pull down your POP3 email, filter it using procmail and feed it into
> the IMAP server so that you can then access it from anywhere.
 
Thanks, Cliff. I realize this would be the "standard" way of going about 
such things (didn't want to bloat the original post :-). However I tend to 
think of it as a fallback solution if nothing else comes up, if only for 
the following reasons :

* a lot of upfront work : several major packages (fetchmail, procmail, 
imapd) I have no hands-on experience with, a lot of reading/learning and a 
lot of little things to get just right in each... In my mind the solution 
I'm after could be a much simpler affair, but then maybe I'm daydreaming :)

* one more potential security hole on my home machine : I tend to limit 
open ports on that one to a bare minimum, my admin skills & available time 
being quite limited...

* availability : my ISP doesn't filter spam but otherwise does a good job 
of keeping its server up. Depending on my own setup means I could get shut 
out when away from home because of a power failure, DSL downtime, a full 
disk, or any of a myriad other domestic problems...

I've been paged about so many similar setups in the workplace that I'll 
avoid them at home if I can... But then, sometimes you _do_ have to turn to 
plan B :-) 

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From anna at aleax.it  Fri Oct  1 11:46:36 2004
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Martelli Ravenscroft)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:46:36 GMT
Subject: python vs c#
In-Reply-To: <0hhql0pqlpjam9dopbare3bo62d59fi1s0@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<EPmdnagKPrUPhtPcRVn-iQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.3529.1095642828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gkgxts.1fq0rwq10mycqiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41513aac$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gkih9r.pfgqukvpt1rcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<37tjl09an200u6tejkrtklc8ib86uk7rm1@4ax.com>
	<7E_6d.33917$35.1643590@news4.tin.it>
	<0hhql0pqlpjam9dopbare3bo62d59fi1s0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <wZe7d.40040$35.1841927@news4.tin.it>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:11:31 GMT, rumours say that Anna Martelli
> Ravenscroft <anna at aleax.it> might have written:
> 
> 
>>>Alex, you are 99% correct.  Leave a 1% chance that Max referred to
>>>"julio" as "it"... :)  Trolls are genderless!
>>
>>
>>Sorry, Christos. Alex was correct: "its" is the appropriate usage here. 
>>"it's" is a contraction of "it is", and NOT the possessive form of it. 
>>Furthermore, Alex was quite kind in *not* correcting the mismatch 
>>between the singular form of the verb "is" and the plural noun "points". 
>> I, otoh, am not so generous.
>>
>>The sentence *should* have read:
>>"Well, not to feed the troll, but there are a few relevant points in its 
>>posting."
> 
> 
> I see marriage has *its* advantages...  :)

LOL

Actually, Alex and I first met over my correcting a subtle error in a 
posting he had made (playing the "more pedantic than thou" game). ;-)

> Actually, my post was a rather silly pun (think "It" by Stephen King),

Ah. Didn't catch the reference. One of (the few) Stephen King books I 
haven't read.

> and that is the reason I inserted a smiley.  I know that Alex was
> correct.  It's my fault that I didn't make myself absolutely clear I was
> joking 

Actually, that you were being jocular was pretty clear...

(I firmly believe that the speaker/writer has the responsibility
> to make themselves understood assuming good intentions from the side of
> the audience --and good intentions are the norm here on clpy :).

Yep. Agreed - it's a great community.

Anna


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 25 16:57:13 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:57:13 -0500
Subject: Unqualified global vars, how?
In-Reply-To: <cljm88$ter$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cljm88$ter$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20041025205711.GC26896@unpythonic.net>

Python won't do what you're asking for.

In your example code, "gv" is a local in A's __init__ function.

If you write
    from Globals import gv
    class A:
        def __init__(self):
            global gv
            print gv
            gv += 1
the code will execute, but the line
    gv += 1
only re-binds gv in A, it doesn't change Globals.gv or the value bound
to gv in any other module that executed the code 'from Globals import
gv'.

Jeff
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From rakis at gmpexpress.net  Thu Oct  7 14:12:18 2004
From: rakis at gmpexpress.net (Tom Cocagne)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:12:18 -0400
Subject: Embedded Python.
References: <74b8e0de.0410070353.17ab0890@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10mbg5dianq89e@corp.supernews.com>

 The py2exe site and associated wiki may have some useful information for
you. 
 http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/
 http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/Py2Exe


winlinchu at yahoo.it wrote:

> I would want to embed Python interpreter in an application, but only
> the
> interpreter without the modules of the standard library (unless sys,
> builtin or some others, that are indispensables). In "setup.py" of the
> source tree, there is a variable that must contain the list of modules
> to not install. I have added some modules, but does not work.
> 
> How can I do? Thanks.



From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Mon Oct 11 17:17:03 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:17:03 GMT
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <JcmdnQnFT5NhH_fcRVn-tg@giganews.com>
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
	<MNCdnR9olpAhWvTcRVn-pg@comcast.com>
	<JcmdnQnFT5NhH_fcRVn-tg@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <jLCad.35932$N45.1022604@twister2.libero.it>

Istvan Albert ha scritto:

> 
> A "hey, it looks like python but it is not really python"
> approach has little chance of capturing a python programmer's
> imagination. It just muddies the water and sows confusion among
> potential adopters.

well, but sometimes muddling water is a good thing.
I see this languages as nice 'testbeds' for pythonic alternative worlds, 
just think of the optional typing thing

> this is just an opinion, and I've been wrong many times before...

so it's mine, and mine is even little valuable cause I'm dumb :)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 18:24:43 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 00:24:43 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aJt8d.3299$M05.285@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6qcq.kcu4qi1qojaksN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<_sB8d.3545$M05.1351@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1gl7k7p.1a37gv1o1klclN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
   ...
> By "independent source" I meant to distinguish between
> a external package that I installed and code the I wrote myself.
> My thought, unbacked by practical experience, is that
> on upgrades I would need to find all my own personalized
> functions, export them, and import them into the new system.

And that was basically what an APL (or APL2?) workspace let me do
(except it was more often to get to another machine, not to upgrade
versions of the system, but, no big difference).  Whether the
"personalized version" is one you've written yourself or got on a pack
of cards from your friend Mario is no big deal here, they're both
additions you'll likely want in your new workspace anyway.

APL didn't let me hack internals any more than Python does -- and Ruby
doesn't have workspaces any more than Python does... the idea of having
workspaces (restorable saves of your interactive sessions &c) and that
of hacking internals are surely orthogonal, I'm not sure why you're
conflating the two.

> To my understanding it either saves the full image,
> or it saves code you've selected.  How does it help
> identifing all of the code that's relevant for this
> sort of upgrade?

It doesn't distinguish whether code X you wrote yourself or got from
Mario, but... why would you care?  If you did, surely a workspace
concept could be built on top of some modern versioning system such as
SVN to let you do the equivalent of a 'svn blame' -- but, again, this
feels to me as a conflating of orthogonal concerns.


> >>Personally I think the ability to do this is a horror,
> >>precisely because it leads to the horrors you talk about.
> > 
> > I wouldn't go so far as to call it a horror.  I do consider it an excess
> > of power/dynamism, which I'd rather not have in a language intended for
> > production use.
> 
> I'm having a difficult time understanding when you would
> use the word horror vs. when not.  Wouldn't it be okay to
> have " 4 + '5' " produce 9 in a language not intended for
> production use?  It seems there is a sensitive threshold
> between your 'good language' and one with 'horror'.  After

In Python, you can pretty easily define a type X such that instantiating
X with an argument of 23 (only) results in a reload of all your
currently reloaded modules plus an email to foo at aleax.it giving your
system's uptime.  I would consider taking advantage of such possibility
a horror on the part of the programmer thus miscoding.  I do not
consider it a horror on Python's part to allow it, as the checks and
prohibitions needed to forbid such silliness would be cumbersome and
unwarranted.  And I don't think the distinction is all that subtle,
either.

> all my language "Al2O3", which is Ruby plus that dozen
> or so line patch for string coercion, seems to fit into
> your horror category.

So would Python plus a rebinding of __builtins__.hex to the above class
X.  So?  What's your point?


> Ahh, but then you're one who used 'horror' when describing
> the "print >>" syntax so "horror", "production use", and
> "good language" are not independent terms.  ;)

print>>bah,'eek' is a bletch whether in production or just horsing
around -- that's different!-)

> Ruby has a way to freeze objects, so they cannot be changed.

Yeah, looks like a cool idea, but Ruby experts tell me it's never really
practically useful... much like, say, double-leading-underscores names
in Python classes -- neat idea, but not used in best practice anyway.

> In my view of things I would have had the system objects
> frozen so that they cannot be changed, so that like in
> Python system class behavior only 'modifiable' through
> subclassing.
> 
> That would have left the power/dynamism available, but in
> such a way as to moderate its impact.

<shrug> easy enough to un-freeze frozen objects.  Having them start
frozen might avoid some accident but I don't think such accidents are
really that much of a concern in this context.

> Sadly my unassisted memory grows rusted.  I was confusing

Mine too (just started my 50th year -- it's 23 minutes after the end of
my 49th b'day, local time), that's part of why google's SO useful;-).

> that with another part of the same thread where I pointed out
> to you
> 
>  >>   proxy = Proxy(...)
>  >>   sys.modules[module_name] = proxy
>  >>
>  >> In other words, what you import doesn't need to be a module.
>  >> It can be a class instance instead - or any other data type.
> 
> and you replied
>  > Now THAT is interesting!  I would never have guessed that the
>  > items in sys.modules need not be module objects.  Is this

Yep, a completely different issue from what goes on the right of a %.
Similar in being about Python not forbidding something though it isn't
to be used 99.9% of the time, much like modifying built-ins;-).


Alex


From theller at python.net  Fri Oct 29 03:45:07 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:45:07 +0200
Subject: py2exe and CD-ROM ISO Level 1
References: <clqm4e$jd8$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com> <654v3r4f.fsf@python.net>
	<clso6t$8mu$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
Message-ID: <vfcu0xz0.fsf@python.net>

Werner Merkl <werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I recompiled my application as a console program and got following
> error message:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
>
> C:\>e:\AUTORUN.EXE
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "D:\PROGS\Python23\lib\site-packages\py2exe\boot_common.py",
>    line 69, in ?
>      import linecache
> zipimport.ZipImportError: can't decompress data; zlib not available
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "AutoRun.py", line 54, in ?
> zipimport.ZipImportError: can't decompress data; zlib not available
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> so I removed "compressed": 1, from setup.py and it WORKS!!!

Great!

> This seems to be a bug in py2exe ????

The zlib module is the only one that is imported with the standard
mechanism, since it is imported when a zipfile is added to sys.path.
So, when it's filename has the wrong case the import will fail, and the
only solution would be to set PYTHONCASEOK=1 before.  Unfortunately,
this cannot be done somewhere in your Pythoncode, because it's too late
then.  So, if you insist on 'compressed': 1 (but why would you?) the
only solution that I see is to add
     _putenv("PYTHONCASEOK=1");
to the source file start.c, somewhere in the init_with_instance
function, near line 135, and rebuild py2exe.

Thomas


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 30 05:02:14 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:02:14 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41832f8b.1140475326@news.oz.net> <41834032.1144738587@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <418357db.1150795766@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:48:34 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 06:07:23 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>[...]
>>Maybe something useful in this? Not very tested (and not terribly clear either ;-)
>>
>> >>> def number_in_base(x, N, digits):
>> ...     return x==0 and digits[0] or '-'[:x<0] + ''.join([d for d in iter(
>> ...                 lambda qr=[abs(x),0]:qr[0] and (
>> ...                     qr.__setslice__(0,2,divmod(qr[0],N)) or digits[qr[1]])
>> ...                 , 0)][::-1])
>> ...
>
>Alternatively, a little more compactly (though I feel guilty about the -1 ;-):
>
> >>> def number_in_base(x, N=10, digits='0123456789ABCDEF'):
> ...     return '-'[:x<0] + ''.join(list(iter(lambda qr=[abs(x),-1]: (qr[0] or qr[1]<0) and (
> ...         qr.__setslice__(0,2,divmod(qr[0],N)) or digits[qr[1]]), False))[::-1])
> ...

Yet another, prefixing digits instead of joining reversed list:

 >>> def number_in_base(x, N=10, digits='0123456789ABCDEF'):
 ...     return '-'[:x<0]+reduce(lambda s,c:c+s, iter(lambda qr=[abs(x),-1]: (qr[0] or qr[1]<0)
 ...         and (qr.__setslice__(0,2,divmod(qr[0],N)) or digits[qr[1]]), False))
 ...
 >>> number_in_base( 0 , 2, '01')
 '0'
 >>> number_in_base( 1 , 2, '01')
 '1'
 >>> number_in_base(126, 2, '01')
 '1111110'
 >>> number_in_base(-126, 2, '01')
 '-1111110'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr  Sat Oct  9 15:57:54 2004
From: sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr (Stelios Xanthakis)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 12:57:54 -0700
Subject: ANN: GUI wrapper for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython
In-Reply-To: <ck8aib$58d$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
References: <mailman.4573.1097237841.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ck8aib$58d$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <newscache$u0ab5i$7lm$1@asterix.tee.gr>

Bats wrote:


> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "run2.py", line 40, in ?
>     GUI=wrap_pygtk
> NameError: name 'wrap_pygtk' is not defined
> 

I don't know. Sounds like a python bug.
Can't we say:

  import foo
  bar = foo

anymore?

Maybe copy the wrap_*.py files into examples/
and ./run2.py from in there?

Regards,

Stelios



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Oct  4 10:12:46 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 10:12:46 -0400
Subject: OT: Grammatical nitpicks (was Re: python vs c#)
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
	<415F67E0.8040200@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <cjrlou$n3h$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <415F67E0.8040200 at holdenweb.com>,
Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>Tim Roberts wrote:
>>
>> Second, "their" is allowed as a singular pronoun only in those cases
>> where a gender-specific pronoun is called for, but the gender is
>> unclear or would be sexist.  Instead of "Everyone brought his Python
>> manual," we are now allowed to say "Everyone brought their Python
>> manual."
>>
>> However, in the example that started this, "village" has no gender.
>> Thus, I don't see that "their" is an acceptable alternative to "its"
>> in this case.
>
>Well, as far as I can see (since you've admitted you're in this for
>fun), I agree that the stated use of "their" you mention was primarily
>for reasons of political correctness, to avoid arguments about whether
>"his or her" or "her or his" should be used.

"Their" was in common use as a singular pronoun long before political
correctness existed as a phrase.  Of course, we can also have a long
debate about the misuse of "political correctness"...

>Of course Aahz would doubtless be able to quote the specific genitive
>form of "zhie", a word I have never been able to like, invented for
>much the same reason (and I've probably got the word wrong, since I'm
>definitely not a regular user).

I'm not much of a grammatical analyst, so I don't know what you mean by
"genitive form".  The standard forms that I use are zie, zir, zirs, and
zirself.

>I must admit I didn't find the Cambridge quote at all convincing. And I
>don't mind irritating people ... now there's a nice ambiguity for you!

What meaning are you using for "nice"?  ;-)


PS: I really wish people would change the Subject: line more often; I
almost skipped this thread because I have no interest in C#.  I only
poked my nose in 'cause Alex was posting.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little
statesmen and philosophers and divines."  --Ralph Waldo Emerson


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sun Oct 10 04:22:55 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 09:22:55 +0100
Subject: Init a table of functions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4651.1097377198.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>	<cka7q6$4u7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>	<4168A727.6050606@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4651.1097377198.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckarh3$lat$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

> Now that I think of it some more, why did you add that object arg?  
> That's not necessary.

It gets you a new-style class instead of an old-style class, and it is a 
good habit to have.

http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From loritsch at gmail.com  Sun Oct 17 15:19:34 2004
From: loritsch at gmail.com (Michael Loritsch)
Date: 17 Oct 2004 12:19:34 -0700
Subject: detecting enabled network interfaces in win32
References: <a8dfce8c.0410162113.545a74bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e253918f.0410171119.49f7d812@posting.google.com>

matt.torment at gmail.com (Matthew K Jensen) wrote in message news:<a8dfce8c.0410162113.545a74bb at posting.google.com>...
> In one of my "because I can" projects, I want to be able to see the
> enabled network interfaces on a machine. I have no clue as to how to
> do this. Any suggestions?

Use the WSAIoctl function of Winsock2 with the command (2nd parameter)
dwIoControlCode = SIO_GET_INTERFACE_LIST.

The other key important tidbit of information would be that you will
need to pass the address of an array of INTERFACE_INFO structures to
the output buffer (5th parameter - lpvOutBuffer) to obtain structures
containing the information you desire.

Below are links to the MSDN documentation of both the WSAIoctl
function and the INTERFACE_INFO structure.

Documentation for WSAIoctl:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/winsock/winsock/wsaioctl_2.asp
Documentation for INTERFACE_INFO:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/winsock/winsock/interface_info_2.asp

I don't that this function is exposed through any of the win32 python
extensions, although I have not had time to research this in order to
be sure.

For that reason, you would likely have to access this method using
ctypes.

Enjoy, and please let me know when you've written such a script
because I'd love to use it. =)

Michael Loritsch


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Oct 11 07:55:13 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:55:13 +0200
Subject: Linenumbers: inspect.getinnerframes vs.
	traceback.format_exception
References: <pan.2004.10.11.11.29.28.61181@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.11.11.55.08.962036@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:29:30 +0200 schrieb Thomas Guettler:

> Hi,
> 
> the line numbers of inspect.getinnerframes are
> different from traceback.format_exception.

Found the fix in the CVS:

Revision 1.47.8.1  - (view) (download) (as text) (annotate) - [select for
diffs] Sat Jun 5 14:14:48 2004 UTC (4 months ago) by akuchling Branch:
release23-maint
Changes since 1.47: +3 -1 lines
Diff to previous 1.47

[Bug #954364] inspect.getframeinfo() sometimes produces incorrect traceback line #s;
 fix is to look at tb.tb_lineno, not tb.frame.f_lineno.  Patch from Robin
 Becker and me.

 Thomas



From bowman at montana.com  Tue Oct 26 00:33:52 2004
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:33:52 -0600
Subject: Reading XML like Python!
References: <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2u61uaF2712ksU1@uni-berlin.de>

John wrote:

> I have to read a lot of XML for my upcoming project.
> XML is hard on my eyes.
> Is there some sort of converter that converts XML to something more
> eye friendly?

I don't know what your XML data is, but an XSLT stylesheet and xsltproc will 
turn it into about anything you want.


From zathras at thwackety.com  Tue Oct  5 17:10:38 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 22:10:38 +0100
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
References: <20041004215641.266008304.whereU@now.com>
	<mailman.4354.1096992685.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10m5r2gd2u38898@corp.supernews.com>
	<4162f2c1$0$202$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <41630de6$0$44835$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>

Max M wrote:

> Jeff Shannon wrote:
>> Russell Nelson wrote:
> 
>> ISTM that these
>> elaborate Mandis-quote schemes may significantly reduce the odds of
>> needing to escape a string literal, but the cost (in clarity,
>> transparency, and most importantly, ability to manipulate your code in
>> anything other than an advanced, complying editor) is pretty high.  I
>> find '''triple quotes''' a lot easier to understand/explain than this
>> scheme of defining arbitrary delimiters.
> 
> In fact, the triple quotes are just special cases of the Mandis quotes,
> and would still be legal. No?
> 
> 
> '''Hello world'''
> 
> 'x'Hello world'x'
> 
> '4242424242'Hello world'4242424242'
> 
> same difference

Not really, no. " is essentially just '' as a single character. Indeed if
you look at some forms of documentation (tends to be older docs), you'll
often find things like ``this'' or ''this'' where these days people would
write "this". (Some ancient keyboards didn't have " characters, which
forced this approach)
As a result you have:
   * 'this'
   * "this"
   * '''this'''

Which is logically the same as the following, and can be viewed as the same,
with an optimised second case.
   * 'this'
   * ''this''
   * '''this'''

Likewise when writing, many people will interchange ' with ", hence '''
whilst odd isn't suprising to see - it's a logical extension, and still
looks like a form of quote. I've taken to using this incidentally in block
quotes in emails and interestingly I've not had any comments as to what I
mean by it.

However ...
> 'x'Hello world'x'
> '4242424242'Hello world'4242424242'

... are completely different kettles of fish.

to me I can't help reading those as mistypings of 
> 'x', Hello world, 'x'
> '4242424242', Hello world, '4242424242'

Which in turn look like mistypings. Far from being clearer you end up with
something that looks like typoes even when you know the rules. Indeed how
could you tell what the intent here was if you were presented with it and
knew there was a bug, and that there was an issue in the code?

foo = 'this'the'other'andnot'this' ?

Is that legal ? Does that mean:
   * '''this'the'other'andnot'this'''

or was it a rushed and they meant:
   foo = 'this',the,'other',andnot,'this' ?

Python often tends to do things which even if suprising are fairly obvious
what they mean to the casual observer. 'this' isn't like any other
mainstream programing language and as a result would confused people much
more than a simple 'this'.

(Is that a mandis quote or is it a sentance that makes no sense? :)

In many respects it's much like various tagging formats, but misses some
advantages eg xml:
<this> isn't like any other mainstream programing language and as a result
would confused people much more than a simple </this>

Unlike mandis quotes here we have a clear indication that the thing the
"this"s are distinct from the data. Also it's clear that the following is a
mistake:
<this> isn't like any other mainstream programing language and as a result
would confused people like <this> much more than a simple </this>

Whereas is the following a mistake?
'this' isn't like any other mainstream programing language and as a result
would confused people like 'this' much more than a simple 'this'

Personally I would say that if someone was _really_ interested in discarding
quoting schemes, there's one easy way of doing so - only ever use ''' and
""". It's trivial, it's implemented and is as you say very similar to
Mandis quotes, but doesn't allow for uses that make maintenance harder.

However personally I see a benefit between having """, ", ''', and ' - the
single quote form makes it explicit that the string should terminate on
that line, and makes it *a lot* simpler to find out if a quote is missing:
   foo = 'th,is',the,'oth,er',a'n,'dn',ot,'this' ?
Whereas """ makes it clear the string *doesn't* terminate on the same line. 

Mandis quotes don't really help with conveying _either_ intent.

Regards,


Michael.


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Sun Oct 24 05:31:48 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:31:48 +0200
Subject: ANN: Frog 1.0 beta  (Python 'blog' system)
In-Reply-To: <417adbe1$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <417adbe1$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <417b7684$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> If you don't want to install it yet, you can first try it out here:
> http://www.razorvine.net/snake/frog/
> (the passwords of each user is the same as the username).

I forgot to mention that the 'test1' and 'test2' users can be used
to post new articles. You'll have to login first, to be able to do
that.

--Irmen


From gohadbhai at rediffmail.com  Wed Oct 20 03:30:24 2004
From: gohadbhai at rediffmail.com (Sandeep Avinash Gohad)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 07:30:24 -0000
Subject: reading a file...
Message-ID: <20041020073024.26268.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041020/8e899d4c/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
 ?
Hello

I opened a file in a read mode

a=open('c:/a.bd4', 'r')
print a
a.read()

(This .bd4 format is not known for me.)
This gives the following output :

'\x08\x00BDF\x00\xef\xcb\x830\x8d\xa1\x07\x00\xf5\x00B1\x00\x003B\xf4\x01\x00\x00U\x0f\x04\x00SUF\x00\xef\xcb\x830\xf6\xa2\x07\x00!\x00B1\xcd\xac\x8eC\x9d\x1c\x00\x00\x8c\x00&\x00SDF\x00\xef\xcb\x830\xfd\xa2\x07\x00@\x00B133\x97A\x16\r\x00\x00[]\x07\x00SUF\x00\xef\xcb\x830\n\xa3\x07\x00A\x00B1\xcd\xccvD\x8c\x00\x00\x009\xec\x00\x00SDF\x00\xef\xcb\x830\x0f\xa3\x07\x00J\x00B1\xcd\xcc\x83B\xf4\x01\x00\x00\xe6h\x01\x00BUF\x00\xf0\xcb\x830\x14\xa3\x07\x00\x9e\x01B1\x9a\x99IA>\x05\x00\x00\xf5\'\t\x00SDF\x00\xf0\xcb\x830(\xa3\x07\x00\x18\x00B1f\xa6\xd5Cx\x00\x00\x00\xd1@\x03\x00SDF\x00\xf0\xcb\x830C\xa3\x07\x00L\x00B1\xcdL\xb1C0\x01\x00\x00\xa6\xd2\x02\x00SDF\x00\xf0\xcb\x830\x8c\xa3\x07\x00t\x00B1\x00\x00(C?\x07\x00\x00\xd0B\x04\x00BDF\x00\xf0\xcb\x830\x96\xa3\x07\x00G\x01B1\x00\x00\xc8A\xb6\x03\x00\x00\xce\xa1\x0b\x00BUF\x00\xf0\xcb\x830\x94\xa1\x07\x00K\x00B1f\xe

so i can not read that file,according to me the data is in the hexadecimal format
please tell me how to read this data and convert it into long datatype
and then copy the data and save it into .csv file.

please guide me...

Regards
sandeep


In this program


From ksenia at ksenia.nl  Sat Oct  2 04:33:39 2004
From: ksenia at ksenia.nl (Ksenia Marasanova)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 10:33:39 +0200
Subject: locale.setlocale problems
Message-ID: <C2D04F50-144D-11D9-8A55-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>

Hi,

I have some problems with locale module.
On my workstation, changing locale doesn't have effect:

Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11)
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import locale
 >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'nl_NL')
'nl_NL'
 >>> locale.format('%0.2f', 0.123)
'0.12'

(It should return: 0,12)


On the server, it doesn't work at all:

Python 2.3 (#1, Jan  4 2004, 14:30:19)
[GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import locale
 >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'nl_NL')
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/locale.py", line 381, in setlocale
     return _setlocale(category, locale)
locale.Error: locale setting not supported

All I want to do, is format numbers with comma as decimal separator in 
a web application. Is there some system libraries I have to install, to 
make locale work?
And the last question: when I change locale in a Python application, it 
affects only the current namespace, right? I hope so... :)

Thanks!
Ksenia.



From edwin at bathysphere.org  Thu Oct  7 09:53:06 2004
From: edwin at bathysphere.org (Edwin Young)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 06:53:06 -0700
Subject: Calling a constructor by reference
Message-ID: <m37jq2fxdp.fsf@localhost.localdomain>


Hi,

I know there must be a way to do this but the correct syntax eludes me.

I want to write a method which I can pass different types to and have
it construct them.

I tried this:

>>>
class X:
    def __init__(self):
        pass

def make_thing(type,*args):
    return type(args)

x = X()
y = make_thing(X)

print x, y 
>>>

But get 'TypeError: __init__() takes exactly 1 argument (2
given)'. Presumably X is treated as an unbound instance method?

Also, the types I want to create inherit from an old-style class in a
package, so I don't think I can make X a new-style class (if that's
relevant).

How should I go about this?

Thanks,
--
Edwin




From belred1 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 16 11:07:17 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:07:17 GMT
Subject: reloading updated modules in long running server?
In-Reply-To: <4170E72B.7040509@wanadoo.fr>
References: <opsfw9veq16yt6e7@news.cisco.com> <4170E72B.7040509@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <FOacd.249900$MQ5.149664@attbi_s52>

Pierre Quentel wrote:
> I don't know if there is a way to catch the event "a file has been 
> modified in the file system" but you can always check if something has 
> changed in sys.modules every time a request is processed by the server, 
> or every n second
> 
> Something like this should work :
> 
> updateTime={}
> for m in sys.modules.values():
>     if m and hasattr(m,"__file__"):
>         modTime=os.path.getmtime(m.__file__)
>         if updateTime.has_key(m):
>             if modTime != updateTime[m]:
>                 reload(m)
>                 updateTime[m]=modTime
>         else:
>             updateTime[m]=modTime
> 
> Pierre
> 

if you have class A in module a.py and class B(A) in module b.py, and in module c.py you instantiale b = B().  will 
there be a problem if you reload module b, then c, then a?  in the previous example, m in sys.modules.values() doesn't 
take this into account.

bryan


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Fri Oct  1 04:32:31 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:32:31 +0100
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
In-Reply-To: <41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
References: <4e4a11f8.0409232355.6ba0468d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.3834.1096015522.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

[Andrea Griffini]
 >[Greg Ewing]
>>[Alex Martelli]
>>>I think it's in fact very nice syntax:
>>This is a hack. Don't do it.
> Who are you to question what Him, the Great Alex, says about it ?

Who are you to question what Greg Ewing says?

I'm having trouble figuring out whether the rest of this message is 
supposed to be ironic or sarcastic or something. I can say with 
certainty that it is pretty silly.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Sun Oct 10 13:59:48 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 17:59:48 GMT
Subject: Python email
Message-ID: <20041010135948.07384.00002435@mb-m29.aol.com>

I'm attempting to write an email client, and I've run into a snag.  I've seen
several docs on email, but they're not dumbed down enough for me.  Basically
I'm downloading my messages like this:
M = poplib.POP3('pop.mail.yahoo.com')
        M.user('username')
        M.pass_('password')
        inMail = str(M.retr(i))
and I get the message just fine, but I want to pull out of all that just the
html part.  How can I do this.


From markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 24 11:19:31 2004
From: markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:19:31 -0400
Subject: Fedora 1 and Eric3
In-Reply-To: <clfgq2$5hs$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
References: <cldm39$qo7$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <clfgq2$5hs$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <qKPed.292$rs5.51451@news20.bellglobal.com>

Bats wrote:

> Bats had this to say:
> 
> 
>>Has anyone here managed to install Eric (Python GUI) on Fedora Core 1?
>>I have had no end of sh*t from qscintilla right on up. It seems I have to
>>jump through an endless series of hoops in a certain order to get to the
>>end.
>>
>>Any step-by-step kinda help?
>>
>>*:*
> 
> Ah well.... no feedback.

Well.. I can give you feedback but it is kind of useless.  I have found 
that no matter what distro I used - Fedora 1 or otherwise - getting that 
program to work (along with all of its seemingly circular dependencies) 
was a very unpleasant experience and one I never succeeded at.  There is 
something to be said for the simplicity of Windows installers...

All I can say is keep trying, and Google this newsgroup.  This has come 
up here before - you are not alone...

Markus.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 11:13:31 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:13:31 +0200
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
	<ad180$416d49e3$51604868$18466@nf1.news-service-com>
	<ba129ce7.0410152212.3d124886@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1glszmt.1r4o5td16zzgx1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

John <johng2001 at rediffmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> across clients. I think you are pointing to something akin to IPC like
> DDE. If you think CORBA can be used like an ActiveX in-process
> control, please let me know how.

CORBA itself allows every activation model one typically wants:
in-process, external-process, remote-host.  Just choose a CORBA
implementation ("broker") that provides a support you like for your
preferred activation models.  PyORBit, for example (which you can find
at <http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/pyorbit/2.0/>), working
together with the ORBit2 object broker, should be fully capable of both
using and being used by in-process servers and clients, as normally
required for the application it's optimized for (Gnome).  Other object
brokers might also be suitable for your needs.

Different Corba object brokers can interoperate, but might not be able
to fully utilize each other's components with in-process activation
(communication at the in-process level may be more efficient, but is
typically more intrusive and less standardized, than clean communication
via the standardized Corba inter-brokers protocol, IIOP).  If your main
thrust is building the equivalent of ActiveX "controls" (components with
a visual interface), and GTK/Gnome is acceptable to you, PyORBit and
ORBit2 might suit you best, for example.

I have used COM extensively in the past, and Corba more modestly.  It
appears to me on the basis of this experience that Corba is technically
superior to COM.  Undoubtedly, on Windows, COM has the advantage of
being widespread; particularly for the purpose of automating
("scripting") applications, being able to rely on just about every
application of note being forced by market demand to provide _some_
level of COM "scripting" interface is quite enabling (even though many
of those interfaces are badly designed, sprawling, ungainly hulks --
mostly not due to COM problems, but to defects inherent in the
architecture and internal design of the applications in question --
nevertheless being able to get at them SOMEhow is still better than not
getting any access to them).

Neither Corba nor any other standard (XPCOM, UNO, etc, etc) is likely to
gain total ascendancy comparable to what COM gained in Windows, in my
opinion.  The very existence of many good standards competing in good
part for the same set of niches, and each enjoying significant support,
precludes that ascendancy.  Moreover, there are objections to the whole
concept in some sectors of the Unix community; Eric Raymond's excellent
book, "The Art of Unix Programming", has a short section which
summarizes those objections, albeit a bit tersely (IMHO, the book is
well worth reading even if you think you'll never program for anything
but Windows, BTW: it has many important lessons to teach).


Alex


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Oct 28 12:34:12 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:34:12 +0200
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>

> Is it correct to say that strong/weak typing does not make a difference
> if one does not use any pointers (or adress-taking operator)?

It seems that you mistake strong/weak typing with static/dynamic typing - a
completely different beast.

Python is in fact strong typed - in opposition to php or perl or even C,
this won't work:

a = "1" + 2

as "1" is a string and 2 an integer. And even though C is statically typed,
it won't complain - you just end up with an unexpected result.

And pointers are not evil in themselves - the are a neccessity to create
recursive structures. But deliberately casting pointers can be very harmful 
- a reason why its forbidden in languages like java and AFAIK ada.

> More concretely, I am thinking particularly of Python vs C++.
> So, are there any examples (without pointers, references, or
> adress-taking), which would have a different result in Python and in C++?

I have difficulties to understand what you want here. Please elaborate.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Sat Oct 23 20:41:44 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 00:41:44 GMT
Subject: wxIEHTML
References: <mailman.5371.1098559525.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20041023204144.02596.00002524@mb-m13.aol.com>

Thanks alot, that was perfect.


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Tue Oct 12 23:47:56 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 21:47:56 -0600
Subject: HTTP Headers to make a download
References: <6f402501.0410120756.63276342@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416ca56c$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>

fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) writes:

> I'm creating a CGI that offers files for download. After googling I
> though I had the right headers to send to force a download - but it
> sends the data to the browser instead of opening the download 'save
> file' dialog. Can anyone see what I'm doing wrong/suggest an
> alternative ?
>
> responseline = '''Content-Type: application/octet-stream
> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=%s
> Content-Length: %s
> '''
>
> print responseline % (filename, len(filedata))
> print filedata

What browser and platform are you using?  Not all browsers honor
Content-Disposition -- some base their display-or-download decision
on the content itself.  For example, using Opera 7.54 on FreeBSD
and your example code, this string displays in the browser:

filedata = 'What hath Guido wrought?'

Whereas this string, different only in the first character, caused
the browser to present a download popup:

filedata = '\xbfWhat hath Guido wrought?'

In the first case, where the browser displayed the data, clicking
"Save" or "File->Save As" did use the file name that was in the
Content-Disposition header.

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From cmedcoff at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  6 22:13:12 2004
From: cmedcoff at hotmail.com (Chuck)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:13:12 -0400
Subject: PythonWin Errors while debugging
Message-ID: <xf2dnXbpeLnSO_ncRVn-vw@wideopenwest.com>

I frequently observe the stack trace below while using PythonWin (which I
otherwise love).  I seem to be associated with debugging, breakpoints and
possibly moving focus from/to PythonWin.  Anyone else observe this?

[Dbg]>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\dbgcommands.py",
line 73, in OnGo
    self._DoOrStart("do_set_continue", scriptutils.RS_DEBUGGER_GO)
  File
"C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\dbgcommands.py",
line 57, in _DoOrStart
    method()
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
line 636, in do_set_continue
    if self.GUIAboutToRun():
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
line 787, in GUIAboutToRun
    if not self.StopDebuggerPump():
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
line 485, in StopDebuggerPump
    if self.GUIAboutToFinishInteract():
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
line 836, in GUIAboutToFinishInteract
    self.oldForeground.EnableWindow(1)
win32ui: The window handle does not specify a valid window
win32ui: Error in Command Message handler for command ID 15022, Code 0
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\dbgcommands.py",
line 79, in OnClose
    d.set_quit()
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
line 642, in set_quit
    ok = self.StopDebuggerPump()
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
line 485, in StopDebuggerPump
    if self.GUIAboutToFinishInteract():
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
line 836, in GUIAboutToFinishInteract
    self.oldForeground.EnableWindow(1)
win32ui: The window handle does not specify a valid window
win32ui: Error in Command Message handler for command ID 16010, Code 0
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\intpyapp.py", line
53, in OnClose
    pywin.debugger.currentDebugger.close(1)
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
line 450, in close
    if not self.StopDebuggerPump(): # User cancelled close.
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
line 485, in StopDebuggerPump
    if self.GUIAboutToFinishInteract():
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
line 836, in GUIAboutToFinishInteract
    self.oldForeground.EnableWindow(1)
win32ui: The window handle does not specify a valid window




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 11:13:29 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:13:29 +0200
Subject: "Visually following", line by line, the execution of a program
References: <f06d8508.0410151455.d06adbf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1glsw1g.1r6zq9cu24b5bN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andr? Roberge <andre.roberge at ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:

> I want to "import and execute" a python program (input_test.py below)
> within another program (execute_test.py below) and "watch it" being
> executed.
> By watching it, I mean to display the file input_test.py in a window
> (GUI) and highlighting the line being executed.  

The functionality you require is known as 'tracing'.

See section 9.2, "How it works", in the Python Library Reference, for
all details.  With sys.settrace, you establish your chosen 'tracing
function', and it gets called with three arguments, frame, event, arg.
event is a string which can be 'call', 'line','return', 'exception'.
The 'line' event is the main one you care about: from the frame object
you can find out what file and line is about to be executed.  Be sure to
have the trace function return itself if it wants to keep tracing,
because for most events the trace function's return value is taken as
the new trace function to use (locally, i.e. within the function
currently being traced) for future tracing, None meaning stop tracing
(at this level of function call).


Alex


From mwh at python.net  Thu Oct 14 11:10:44 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:10:44 GMT
Subject: read a files particular line
References: <cklgrm$6g3$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m3y8i9xrm4.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Frank Grellert <fgrellert at t-online.de> writes:

> Hi,
> does anybody have an idea how to read a particular line of a file like awk's
> awk '{if( NR==12) print $0}' filename (reads lineno 12 of filename)
> 

for lineno, line in enumerate(open_file):
    # lineno starts at 0, though

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  <radix> I feel so special when people quote me
                                                -- from Twisted.Quotes


From egbert.list at hccnet.nl  Sun Oct 10 10:26:59 2004
From: egbert.list at hccnet.nl (Egbert Bouwman)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:26:59 +0200
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
In-Reply-To: <1glf0aw.d4q2xilmpg8wN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glc6g0.1ner1219acqffN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4625.1097319502.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glf0aw.d4q2xilmpg8wN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041010142658.GA1089@mirk.lan>

On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 12:41:37AM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:

> ....
> But the iteration state is not connected with the
> file's current position.
> 
That is very useful information.Thanks.
egbert
-- 
Egbert Bouwman - Keizersgracht 197 II - 1016 DS  Amsterdam - 020 6257991
========================================================================


From andrea.valle at unito.it  Fri Oct  8 13:47:57 2004
From: andrea.valle at unito.it (andrea valle)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:47:57 +0200
Subject: wxPython toot
In-Reply-To: <4166C6C9.7030501@comcast.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0410081516190.4297-100000@zenon.ceid.upatras.gr>
	<4166C6C9.7030501@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <30B8EFDA-1952-11D9-8C02-0003939C968C@unito.it>

Hi to all
can anyone point me to a wxpython tutorial (something like the Intro to 
tkinter by Lundh)?

Thanks

-a-



From arvid at linux.se  Thu Oct 21 11:19:04 2004
From: arvid at linux.se (Arvid Andersson)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:19:04 +0200
Subject: Matrix (list-in-list), how to get a column?
Message-ID: <20041021151904.GA25755@shell.linux.se>

Good afternoon,

I have some data that looks like this:
data = [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]]

I want to send columns 1 and 2 to a function
as two variables, say "plot(col1,col2)".

I can get a row by data[r], but how do I get a
column? data[:][c] would have been my guess,
but that returns the same list as data[r].

I can solve this with two additional lists and
a for loop, but that seems like an ugly hack.
Five additional lines just seems clumsy.  :-)

Is there a more elegant solution than this?

col1 = []
col2 = []
for i in range(len(data)):
  col1 += [a[i][0]]
  col2 += [a[i][1]]


/Arvid Andersson



From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 22 11:54:18 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 18:54:18 +0300
Subject: About lambda.
References: <mailman.5311.1098446198.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du73c06agut.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Xin" == Xin Wang <xeranic at yahoo.com> writes:

    Xin> Some c++ guru said c++ is hard to learn but easy to use. Is

I would question such a guru. There is nothing "easy to use" about
C++. Or perhaps the Guru hadn't tried any other modern language apart
from C.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From erik at heneryd.com  Sat Oct 30 11:56:12 2004
From: erik at heneryd.com (Erik Heneryd)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:56:12 +0200
Subject: Regex speed
In-Reply-To: <2uh4g5F29ntaoU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>	<DiEgd.6304$kM.2345@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<2uh4g5F29ntaoU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4183B99C.6050503@heneryd.com>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> OK, thank you. I now got rid of all the regexes, and - surprise,
> surprise - the speeds are almost equal. The bitter thing about it is
> that there are now twelve LOC more in Python that don't make
> understanding the code easier.

If your problem is that the re.compile() setup takes too long (compared 
to the time taken to do the actual matching/replacing), my guess is that 
you don't operate on that much data.  And if that's the case, does it 
really matter if it's a fraction of a second slower?

Note that str.find() currently uses the naive approach resulting in bad 
time complexity, so it's not suitable for larger data sets.  See 
http://online.effbot.org/2004_08_01_archive.htm#find


Erik


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 01:56:41 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 05:56:41 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
>> exec code, glbls, lcls
>>
> 
> 
> This is a cool language, I love code chunks!!

Like I said with eval, DO NOT USE THIS!  It almost certainly
means you're doing the wrong thing.  It's full of security
holes and there are nearly always better ways to solve
the underlying problem.

> How come Python always complains when I don't include the self parameter 
> in an object method?  Your code doesn't work on my interpreter.

Remember that pointer to asking smart questions?  Remember
that part about reading the documentation?  Doing those
would seriously help your understanding and help us know
what you mean with "always complains" and "doesn't work."


> I know but that's a real bummer.  No way around that?

Python is not a functional programming language.

Do you want it because it's cool or because it's useful?

> So is the print statement ironed into the language and not a function?

Documentation.

Does it look like a function?

>>> 20. Date persistence and serialization
>>
>>
>>
>> This can mean any one of a dozen things.
>>
> 
> I'd like to store function and variables and of course objects in a form 
> that can be easily read back into the program/script.

This can mean any one of a dozen things.  They are all
available in Python.  Some are standard modules.  Read the docs.

Python doesn't support Smalltalk's system image.  That's
probably a good thing.

> Oh really??  Exciting, I'm glad of it.  Hit the docs I must!

Umm... Yes.

>>> 22. Is the self parameter hidden from me as a programmer?  Can I 
>>> hide/unhide it as I wish?
>>
>> It is not hidden, in fact, you get to name it...
>>
>> class foo:
>>     def goo(I_AM_SELF, arg):
>>         pass
>>
> Cool!


DO NOT DO THAT EVER!

Seriously not cool.

> Not fully implemented, but I guess that will have to suffice.

Is there any non-trivial language which is fully implemented
for C#?

>> Python has no static typing.
>>
> 
> Argg!

This is precisely why my first reply said this question
was way too hard to answer briefly.  You claim experience with
Smalltalk.  Smalltalk has no static typing either.  There
are many essays available (and books no doubt) on all the
nuances here.  You've used Ruby -- it's the same there too.


> I'd like to be able to use a string as an integer without an explicit 
> coerion on my part for example.

NO!  Don't do that.  Bad code.  Subtle errors.

Try Perl or Ruby instead.

> Ugly?  I disagree, but hey, what do I know?  Objective-C is OOP and 
> messaging is awesome.  I love Python though, a hybrid between the two 
> would be great.

Do some research for your own and see if such thing exists.
Hint: yes.

> That is quite a shame, no modules for this either huh?

It quite depends on your expectations of what design by
contract, protocols, etc. means.  Do some research.  Hint:
Google for 'python "design by contract"' and related topics.

>>> 34. In pure Python, can I change and add new constructs to the Python 
>>> syntax?
>>
>> Yes, if you are willing to work for it.
>>
> 
> I expect the docs will tell me how to do this.

Yes, the docs for modifying the interpreter.

>>> 37. Dynamic dispatch
>>
>> This could mean a few different things.
>>
> 
> Like virtual functions in C++

Docs.  Read.  Enjoy.

When you say "like virtual functions in C++" do you also
mean supporting the same resolution algorithm for handling
diamonds in multiple inheritance?  Do you mean are they
bound vs. unbound?  That you can use pointer arithmetic
to go up and down the vtable?  That they aren't
introspectable?

That's why I say it's easier to just read the docs rather
than have people give you short answers that aren't useful
without the entire context of how Python works.


> What I actually meant was are there any facilities (built-in or modules) 
> which allow for automatic compilation to C/C++/C#/D.  For example, 
> particular Smalltalk distros compile to C as does ObjC.

Yes.  But you'll never use them.  The problem you'll want
to solve is "how do I call Python code from a ... library"
or "how do I package Python as an executable" and not
"how do I convert Python code into C".

You are asking the wrong question.  You are asking about
technique, not goal.

>>> 43. Embedding variables in strings like: print "Hello, World. Time: 
>>> #{Time.now}"
>>
>> t = time.asctime()
>> print "Hello World %(t)s"%{'t':t}
>> print "Hello World %(t)s"%locals()
>>
> 
> That is messy, exactly why I wanted the kind of clear embedding I gave 
> an example for.  Oh well.

You asked for "embedding variables" not embedding expressions.
You got what you asked for, not what you wanted.  That's part
of being able to ask the right question.  Remember that essay
people suggested you read?

> Really?  Hmmmm, does anyone know of a bridge between Python and Ruby?

Why not just use Ruby?  It seems to fit your search criteria
much better.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 13 08:19:56 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:19:56 +0200
Subject: strange side effect with lists!?
References: <mailman.4817.1097656352.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glllnv.9f2gdijdroqgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<Wolfgang.Stoecher at profactor.at> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm new to Python and playing around. I'm confused by the following 
> behaviour:
> 
> >>> l1 = [1] # define list
> >>> l2 = l1  # copy of l1 ?
> >>> l2,l1
> ([1], [1])
> >>> l2.extend(l1) # only l2 should be altered !?
> >>> l2,l1
> ([1, 1], [1, 1]) # but also l1 is altered!
> 
> So what is the policy of assignment? When is a copy of an object created?
> Where to find dox on this?

Bruno's answer seems very thorough so I'll just try to briefly summarize
the answers:

1. simple assignment (to a bare name, at least), per se, never
   implicitly copies objects, but rather it sets a reference to an
   object (_another_ reference if the object already had some).

2. a new object is created when you request such creation or perform
   operations that require it.  Lists are particularly rich in such
   operations (see later).  Simple assignment to a bare name is not
   an operation, per se -- it only affects the name, by making it refer
   to whatever object (new, or used;-) is on the righht of the '='.

3. I believe any decent book on Python will cover this in detail.

Now for ways to have a new list object L2 made, with just the same items
and in the same order as another list object L1 ("shallow copy"):

a. import copy; L2 = copy.copy(L1)

This works to shallow-copy _any_ copyable object L1; unfortunately you
do have to import copy first.  Module copy also exposes function
deepcopy, for those rare cases in which you wish to recursively also get
copies of all objects to which a "root object" refers (as items, or
attributes; there are some anomalies, e.g., copy.deepcopy(X) is X when X
is a class, or type...).

b. L2 = list(L1)

I find this is most often what I use - it works (making a new list
object) whatever kind of sequence, iterator, or other iterable L1 may
be.  It is also what I recommend you use unless you have some very
specific need best met otherwise.

c. various operations such as...:
   L2 = L1 * 1
   L2 = L1 + []
   L2 = L1[:]
i.e. "multiply by one", "concatenate the empty list", or "get a slice of
all items".  I'm not sure why, but the latter seems to be very popular,
even though it's neither as concise as L1*1 nor as clear and readable as
list(L1).


Alex


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Oct 12 22:09:43 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:09:43 -0400
Subject: Python control of desktop properties
In-Reply-To: <416c8404$1_3@alt.athenanews.com>
References: <416c8404$1_3@alt.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <416C8E67.3040900@rogers.com>

You want to call the function:
     user32.SystemParametersInfo(
        SPI_SETDESKWALLPAPER,
        0,
        imageLocation,
       |SPIF_UPDATEINIFILE | SPIF_SENDWININICHANGE
  )

You can likely do that fairly readily with ctypes.  Sorry, don't have 
time to do more than point you at it tonight.

Good luck,
Mike
|

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 29 21:38:37 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 18:38:37 -0700
Subject: How to use python in matlab
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410291738.2f3708b8@posting.google.com>

How to use python in matlab?


From les_ander at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 11:51:15 2004
From: les_ander at yahoo.com (les ander)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 08:51:15 -0700
Subject: convert scientific integer to normal integer
Message-ID: <a2972632.0410050751.6b0b39d@posting.google.com>

Hi,
i have a file with lines like this:
  1.7000000e+01   2.4000000e+01   1.0000000e+00   8.0000000e+00   1.5000000e+01
  2.3000000e+01   5.0000000e+00   7.0000000e+00   1.4000000e+01   1.6000000e+01
  4.0000000e+00   6.0000000e+00   1.3000000e+01   2.0000000e+01   2.2000000e+01
  1.0000000e+01   1.2000000e+01   1.9000000e+01   2.1000000e+01   3.0000000e+00
  1.1000000e+01   1.8000000e+01   2.5000000e+01   2.0000000e+00   9.0000000e+00

Notice that they are all integers. 
What I want to do is write them out in a regular way, by which I mean that the 
output should look like this:
17 24 1 9 15
23 5 7 14 16
etc

I tried the following but it did not work:
fp=open(argv[1])
for x in fp:
  xc=[int(e) for e in x.split()]
  print " ".join(xc)


any help would be much appreciated


From m_vddungen at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 17:25:16 2004
From: m_vddungen at yahoo.com (Marcel van den Dungen)
Date: 17 Oct 2004 14:25:16 -0700
Subject: Python in HTAs
Message-ID: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>

Does anybody know how to use Python as the scripting language for HTML
applications? I tried the following, but I get a script error ('Object
expected') on the body element.

<html>
<head>
<title>Python controlled HTML application</title>
<hta:application id="oApplication">
<script language="python">
def Onload():
    alert('hello from python')
    document.all["idspan"] = 'hello from python'
</script>
</head>
<body onload="Onload();">
<span id="idspan" ></span>
</body>
</html>

Could not find any example on Google either.

TIA,
Marcel


From harddong at 21cn.net  Fri Oct  1 04:46:20 2004
From: harddong at 21cn.net (Dong Ge)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:46:20 +0800
Subject: Search and Replace in a text.
References: <06opl01rgc7d31l1efuc8ce7apgj9g1dq4@4ax.com>
	<cjj45n$q41$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2d5ql0pd8f5m1jnf090h30ufiirekln7c7@4ax.com>

Thanks for your reply.

First, I need find the the "Layer:" tag in the orginal text file, then
copy fllowing text string until the new line beginning ( The first
text string is "TV-Frame" in the "Text 1".). 

Second, I need find the "Attr:" tag fllowing the previous "Layer:"
tag, and replace the text string next to the "Attr:" tag with the
content in clipboard.

Third, finding the next "Layer:" tag and repeat the first step and
second step until the end of file.

A lot of thanks again!
----
Dong Ge
2004.10.01

Text 1:
...
Layer: Tv-Frame
Flags: 0x0
Attr: 1
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-pic
Flags: 0x2300
Attr: 1
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-shell
Flags: 0x0
Attr: 1
Focus Point: 0 0 0
...

Text 2:
...
Layer: Tv-Frame
Flags: 0x0
Attr: Tv-Frame
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-pic
Flags: 0x2300
Attr: Tv-pic
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-shell
Flags: 0x0
Attr: Tv-shell
Focus Point: 0 0 0


On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:23:13 +0100, Michael Hoffman
<m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote:

>Dong Ge wrote:
>
>> I'm a new beginner of Python. I want to convet  "Text 1" to "Text 2"
>> below. How to do it?
>
>Sorry, you're going to have to describe your problem a little more fully 
>before I can help you. Otherwise I can only guess.



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct  4 20:59:01 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 00:59:01 GMT
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
References: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cjsrkl$5oh$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>

On 4 Oct 2004 07:45:54 -0700, nelson at crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) wrote:

>Jef Raskin (namedropping) has pointed me at a neat scheme for quoting
>arbitrary textual matter called "Mandis quotes".  Since google is
>ignorant of the phrase, I presume that Jef made it up.  It is
>disgustingly simple, and very Pythonesque.  Here's how it works: If
>you have a string that doesn't have any single quotes in it, you
>surround the string by a pair of doubled single quotes.  ''Like
>this''.  No backslash interpolation.  If you want a character in
>there, you put it in there (yes, I know, stand down your armies).
>Clearly, then, any character except a single quote can go into one of
>these strings.  If you need to put a single quote in, then you put
>an arbitrary string in-between the single quotes which does NOT
>appear in the string.  For example, "Bill's house" becomes
>'x'Bill's house'x'.
>
>More formally, a mandis quote is a pair of tokens surrounding a
>completely arbitrary sequence of bytes.  These tokens are comprised of
>a possibly null sequence of characters preceded by and followed by a
>single quote.

I once started a thread with the same (quoting arbitrary text) goal, but
I made it a special case of Python string syntax, using a q or Q prefix:

   q'x'Bill's housex

I thought about re-quoting the 'x' at the tail, but thought more typical usage
would use a special character for single-character delimiters, e.g.,
   q'|'Bill's house|

See

http://groups.google.com/groups?group=comp.lang.python.*&selm=a5srm2%24254%240%40216.39.172.122&rnum=2

And click on view complete thread to see all 36 posts ;-)


>
>To save time, here's why this pre-PEP proposal sucks in decreasing
>order of severity:
>
>o Python source is typically represented, not as an arbitrary string
>  of ASCII or Unicode characters, but instead as a sequence of lines
>  separated by the native line terminator (e.g. CRLF, LF, or CR).
See Q'... in the above cited thread.

>
>o Editors are not all up to the task of inserting arbitrary
>  characters into strings (although they SHOULD).
>
>o Email cannot withstand arbitrary strings of characters (although
>  quoted-printable suffices).
>
>o Some distinct Unicode characters are represented using the same
>  glyph, so that information is lost when text gets printed (but
>  that's more of a Unicode stupidism.)
>
>Obviously, the justification for it is that it eliminates ", ', r",
>r', """, and ''' from the syntax, replacing them by a single 'x' that
>suffices for everything.  Makes the code easier to read (only one
>visual element), easier to parse, and easier to write, because you
>don't need to decide which literal method to use.

IMO a special use case does not justify complicating ordinary usage,
but can be justified as a special syntax variant if it stays out of the way
and provides otherwise unavailable capability.

As others have pointed out, you couldn't just switch to Mandis Quotes as
a complete replacement, since it would break existing programs. But you
could prefix e.g. and 'm' for a special syntax a lot like mine ;-)

    m'x'Bill's House'x'

Quoting "arbitrary" text also involves the issue of encoding, which is something
I hadn't thought through when I proposed my syntax. E.g., what happens when you
paste arbitrary text of possibly different encoding between some delimiters?

Do you depend on the editor's (if you are using an editor, not programmatically
concatenating text from various sources) ability to call for encoding transformations
from clipboard content to its current encoding? Does that lose information if the
current encoding is not unicode? It's a long discussion, involving what byte sequences
really mean in the various representations involved (in source files, memory, screen
presentations, etc.), and which are transient escaped byte representations and which
are abstract text entities. Another time ... ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From rtilley at vt.edu  Sat Oct 16 22:52:58 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:52:58 -0400
Subject: See when process exits in Windows XP
Message-ID: <cksmq8$c7$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I've tested this function out and it works well... it'll loop until 
ntbackup.exe has exited and then the script goes on to rename the 
backup.bkf file and copy it to a file server. Having _never_ done this 
before I thought it'd be wise to run this by comp.lang.python. I know 
it's a simple and stupid way in which to monitor a process, but it works 
for me... is it safe to do this? I don't want to get too complex. 
Thanks, Brad

def wait_for_ntbackup_to_exit(procname):
     while True:
         try:
             pids = win32pdhutil.FindPerformanceAttributesByName(procname)
             if len(pids) > 0:
                 print pids
                 print len(pids)
                 print "ntbackup is running... waiting for it to exit."
                 continue
         except:
             return


From klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de  Tue Oct  5 04:57:10 2004
From: klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de (Klaus Neuner)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 01:57:10 -0700
Subject: re bug
Message-ID: <3e96ebd7.0410050057.29a15174@posting.google.com>

Hello,

it seems that there is a bug in the re module. Below there is a sample
program that illustrates it.(Sorry for its length. I was not able to
write a simpler regex that produced the same effect.)

The regex rx compiles. It can be used to search the strings str1 and
str2. Yet, when used with str3, the program will not terminate for
days.

I had already had this problem some months ago in another program. I
had the program run for several days. In the end, the regex search
terminated and returned the right result. As I could avoid regular
expressions of the kind that led to the problem, I did avoid them.

At the time being, I can neither avoid these regular expressions, nor
can I afford to wait days for the result of my program. And, even if
the search on str3 would terminate some day, I would still consider
this behaviour a serious bug. I am searching tons of texts with
regular expressions. And in tons of texts there will always be
something of the type of str3. This means that my program just doesn't
terminate, although it has no (home made) bug.

I am REALLY reluctant to change my program, because it is very complex
and it runs fine apart from the regex-search-does-not-terminate
problem. But, if changing my program was the most efficient way to
make the problem go away, I would do it. (I cannot afford to wait for
some future version of the re module that doesn't have the problem.)

Is there perhaps a way to tell Python something like 

"Try the search for 5 minutes. If you don't find anything, continue."

Or are there any other solutions?


Klaus



#########################################################################

import re, sys

rx = re.compile("(?:^| )(?P<ALLES>(?:[^/ ]*/[^/ ]*/(?:cn(?::[^/ #]+)*)
)*[^/ ]*/[^/ ]*/(?:cn(?::[^: /#]+)*:2(?::[^: /#]+)*:3(?::[^:
/#]+)*))(?=( |$))")


str1 = "mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:2:3"

test1 = rx.search(str1)
if test1:
    print test1.group("ALLES")

str2 = "//bos Innit/no/no ?/?/pun:? Mm/mm/adj:4 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3
mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3
mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3
mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:2:3 ././pun:."

test2 = rx.search(str2)

if test2:
    print test2.group("ALLES")

# Part below will not terminate for days

# str3 = "//bos Innit/no/no ?/?/pun:? Mm/mm/adj:4 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3
mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3
mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3
mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3
mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3
mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3
mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3
mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3
mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:3 ././pun:."

# test3 = rx.search(str3)

# if test3:
#     print test3.group("ALLES")


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 22 14:34:56 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:34:56 -0700
Subject: IDLE--what are your experiences with it?
In-Reply-To: <Pm8ed.3143$Ag.3109@fe37.usenetserver.com>
References: <Pm8ed.3143$Ag.3109@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20041022113155.0AE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Kevin Walzer <sw at wordtech-software.com> wrote:

> I'm looking for other peoples' viewpoints about their experiences with
> IDLE as an editor--what are its good points? What are its limitations?
> Any advice/insight is appreciated.

It is a decent editor for a handful of files at a time.  The moment you
get beyond just a few documents; your taskbar becomes cluttered with
entries.  It also doesn't have code folding, project support, ...

 - Josiah



From pit.grinja at gmx.de  Fri Oct  1 15:55:26 2004
From: pit.grinja at gmx.de (Piet)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 12:55:26 -0700
Subject: wxPython: "Nesting" wx.NoteBooks?
Message-ID: <39cbe663.0410011155.1da62051@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I am trying to generate an "hierarchical" layout based on
wx.NoteBooks. That means, every page of a Notebook should be a
NoteBookon its own. Here is a (short but complicated) piece of code
that I put together to see whether it works:

import wx
#____________________________

class MainWindow(wx.Frame):
    def __init__(self,parent,id,title):
        self.dirname=''
        wx.Frame.__init__(self,parent,-4, title,
style=wx.DEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE)
        self.Notebook =
wx.Notebook(self,-1,wx.DefaultPosition,wx.DefaultSize,wx.NB_TOP)
        self.panels = []
        self.SubNoteBooks = []

        for panelNumber in range(3):
            self.panels.append(wx.Panel(self.Notebook,-1))
            self.Notebook.AddPage(self.panels[panelNumber],"Tab"+str(panelNumber))#
            self.SubNoteBooks.append(wx.Notebook(self.panels[panelNumber],-1,wx.DefaultPosition,wx.DefaultSize,wx.NB_TOP))
            self.SubNoteBooks[panelNumber].subPanels = []
            for subPanelNumber in range(3):
                self.SubNoteBooks[panelNumber].subPanels.append(wx.Panel(self.SubNoteBooks[panelNumber],-1))
                self.SubNoteBooks[panelNumber].AddPage(self.SubNoteBooks[panelNumber].subPanels[subPanelNumber],"Subtab"+str(panelNumber)+str(subPanelNumber))

app = wx.PySimpleApp()
frame = MainWindow(None, -1, "MultiTabControl")
frame.Show(1)
app.MainLoop()

However, what I get is only the "first level", i.e. a normal NoteBook
with three tabs. Is it possible to get the "second level tabs"
working?
Many thanks in advance
Piet


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 00:37:10 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 21:37:10 -0700
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>	<416d2af0.154298900@news.oz.net>	<m3brf5z71z.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<mailman.4957.1097770559.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410142037.3703195c@posting.google.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4957.1097770559.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:51:52 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:
> > bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
> > 
> > > IIRC it was Guido himself who let the cat out of the bag about a
> > > function, in some early metaclass notes. But maybe I don't RC ;-)
> > 
> > I don't get the fuss about a function vs a class for the value of
> > __metaclass__.  It's a callable.  It gets called.  No mystery *here*
> > :)
> 
> I think it has something to do with the intended working of
> metaclasses. After all, they're called meta_classes_, not
> metafunctions :-) But on a more serious note: in other languages, such
> as Smalltalk, metaclasses are a standard part of the language, and are
> _classes_. There is a _metaclass hierarchy_, superimposed to the class
> hierarchy. Metaclasses are supposed to be classes because they can be
> inherited from, for example. And I believe that was only by accident,
> and not by a explicit design choice, that Python's implementation
> accepts any callable as a metaclass.

Using a "metafunction" is a kind of abuse, yes. Nevertheless, I used this trick
to resolve the metaclass conflict:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/204197c

Later on, I also found a way to avoid the usage of the meta-function,
but it was too brain-exploder to publish ;-)

           Michele Simionato


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct 30 10:02:43 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:02:43 +0200
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <1099144064.931829.257240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<HNedne3QcamF4h7cRVn-3g@speakeasy.net>
	<1099144064.931829.257240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2uhl84F2ahviqU1@uni-berlin.de>

Jonathan Ellis wrote:
> A.M. Kuchling wrote:
>> The list of features for Python 3000 is described in PEP 3000,
>> appropriately enough:
>>
>> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-3000.html
>>
>> Most of the suggested changes remove redundancy, such as removing
>> now-unneeded built-in functions and language features.
> 
> I'm sure this has been brought up before, but a quick google search
> didn't find anything on moving [has|get|set]attr into attributes of
> object.  Why wouldn't this be considered a Good Thing?  Just because
> Ruby people would like it? :)

You can take this step even further:

The builtin functions (that aren't doomed for py3k) can be classified in
those groups:

A. Constructors for built-in types

basestring, bool, complex, dict, file, float, int, list, long, object,
str, slice, tuple, type

These cannot be made attributes of some object.

B. Functions that can be attributed to some class or module

abs, divmod, round, pow -> math

ord -> str
In consequence: [uni]chr -> int
hex, oct -> int

super, *attr, isinstance, issubclass -> object

hash -> sys?

C. Functions that could be made attributes of lists/sequences

max, min, len, enumerate, sum

But that would require to implement them for all sequence types or
implement a common basetype 'seq'.

D. Other functions I cannot attribute to a class

eval
globals, locals, vars
iter
property
classmethod, staticmethod
cmp
[x]range
repr
__import__

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 01:58:03 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:58:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: difference between class statement and def statement (WAS Re: End
	of file)
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2sucjlF1p5plpU1@uni-berlin.de> <416a09c4.4267802054@news.oz.net>
	<59e9fd3a0410102158179dac9e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041011T074611-287@post.gmane.org>

Andrew Durdin <adurdin <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Another [sort-of related] question: why does the following not produce
> a NameError for "foo"?
> 
> def foo(): print foo
> foo()

I'm thinking this was meant to be "left as an exercise to the reader" ;), but 
just in case it wasn't, you've exactly illustrated the difference between a 
class definition statement and a function definition statement.  Executing a 
class definition statement executes the class block, while executing a 
function definition statement only initializes the function object, without 
actually executing the code in the function's block.  Hence:

>>> class C(object):
...     print C
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in C
NameError: name 'C' is not defined

The name of a class is bound to the class object at the end of the execution 
of a class statment.  Since executing a class statement executes the code in 
the class's block, this example references C before it has been bound to the 
class object, hence the NameError.

>>> def f():
...     print f
...
>>> f()
<function f at 0x009D6670>

The name of a function is bound to the function object when the def statement 
is executed.  However, the function's code block is not executed until f is 
called, at which point the name f has already been bound to the function 
object and is thus available from the globals.

Steve



From mhoward at mahoward.com  Tue Oct  5 10:38:09 2004
From: mhoward at mahoward.com (Mike Howard)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 07:38:09 -0700
Subject: Problem with string parsing
Message-ID: <948b993a.0410050638.3a0340ec@posting.google.com>

If I do this:
string.lstrip('1_mature_dt=10-May-2002','1_mature_dt=')
I get:
'0-May-2002'
Which I did not expect
string.lstrip('1_mature_dt=20-May-2002','1_mature_dt=')
I get
'20-May-2002'
Which I expected
string.lstrip('1_mature_dt=01-Jun-2003','1_mature_dt=')
I get
'01-Jun-2003'
Which I expected

Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?


From heikowu at ceosg.de  Sun Oct 24 12:57:29 2004
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:57:29 +0200
Subject: Passing an event handler through a list
In-Reply-To: <xDQed.18197$nj.5597@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
References: <xDQed.18197$nj.5597@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <200410241857.29378.heikowu@ceosg.de>

Am Sonntag, 24. Oktober 2004 18:20 schrieb StvB:
> In main.py, I add an event handler to a list:
> [snip]
>
> In GUI_Function.py,
> ---------------------
> from   wxPython.wx import *
>
def AddItemsToSizer(self, sizer, panel, evtHandlerList ):
> [snip]

Try this, and read up on parameter passing (and also read up on what 
*evtHandlerList means...

Heiko.


From ofnap at nus.edu.sg  Tue Oct  5 14:29:59 2004
From: ofnap at nus.edu.sg (Ajith Prasad)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 11:29:59 -0700
Subject: Cross-tabulation module in Python
Message-ID: <37ee60c8.0410051029.1cd88083@posting.google.com>

Anyone knows of a reference to a statistical cross-tabulation module
in Python? Thanks in advance.


From pit.grinja at gmx.de  Sun Oct  3 12:51:59 2004
From: pit.grinja at gmx.de (Piet)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 09:51:59 -0700
Subject: wxPython: "Nesting" wx.NoteBooks?
References: <39cbe663.0410011155.1da62051@posting.google.com>
	<88e23673.0410022250.4f8a2933@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <39cbe663.0410030851.276b37f@posting.google.com>

jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson) wrote in message news:<88e23673.0410022250.4f8a2933 at posting.google.com>...
> > However, what I get is only the "first level", i.e. a normal NoteBook
> > with three tabs. Is it possible to get the "second level tabs"
> > working?
> 
> Though it is ugly, yes, it can be done.  Nearly anything can be done
> with wxPython, you just need to structure it correctly.
> 
> import wx
> #____________________________
> 
> class MainWindow(wx.Frame):
>     def __init__(self,parent,id,title):
>         self.dirname=''
>         wx.Frame.__init__(self,parent,-4, title,
> style=wx.DEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE)
>         self.Notebook =
> wx.Notebook(self,-1,wx.DefaultPosition,wx.DefaultSize,wx.NB_TOP)
>         self.SubNoteBooks = []
>         
>         for subnotebook in xrange(3):
>             self.SubNoteBooks.append(wx.Notebook(self.Notebook, -1))
>             self.Notebook.AddPage(self.SubNoteBooks[-1],
>                                   'Tab %i'%subnotebook)
>             for i in xrange(3):
>                 self.SubNoteBooks[-1].AddPage(wx.Panel(
>                  self.SubNoteBooks[-1], -1),
>                  'SubTab %i %i'%(subnotebook,i))
> 
> app = wx.PySimpleApp()
> frame = MainWindow(None, -1, "MultiTabControl")
> frame.Show(1)
> app.MainLoop()

Thanks, Josiah. It took me some time to figure out how to put
something on a notebook panel (i.e. in which order the wx.Notebook and
the panel have to be created and which is the child of what), so
leaving out the panel for the "1st level notebooks" would habe
probably the last thing I would have tried.
Piet


From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Wed Oct  6 16:11:00 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:11:00 -0400
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <10m8gqrtj31kndc@corp.supernews.com>
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>	<UWt8d.3156$UP1.2886@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4352.1096990836.5135.python-list@python.org>	<tyfbrfgcoa4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>	<mailman.4431.1097081798.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10m8gqrtj31kndc@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <41645154.5020306@fastmail.fm>

Jeff Shannon wrote:

> Arich Chanachai wrote:
>
>> <SNIP>
>
>
>>> You mean some refinement of this sort of thing:
>>>
>>>    class X(object):
>>>           a = "lives in X"
>>>           def __getattr__(self, name):
>>>            return getattr(U,name)
>>>       class U(object):
>>>           b = "lives in Y"
>>>       x = X()
>>>    print x.a
>>>    print x.b
>>>
>>> ?
>>>  
>>
>>
>> Sure, but what if I dynamically (at runtime) extend X to include 
>> variable b.  Will it then print X.b or still U.b?
>
>
>
> In this case, as I understand it, adding an attribute b to either x 
> (the instance) or X (the class) will cause x.b to resolve to the new 
> attribute, and *not* to U.b -- attributes are dynamically looked up 
> each time they are used, and __getattr__() is called only when the 
> standard lookup methods (instance, class, superclass, ...) fail.
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International
>
Cool.  This seems then to have the same functionality as ObjC messages.  
I am beginning to like Python more and more.


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 08:24:27 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 05:24:27 -0700
Subject: locks
In-Reply-To: <ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1097670267.12092.70.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 14:11 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Ajay wrote:
> 
> > what would happen if i try to access a variable locked by another thread?
> > i am not trying to obtain a lock on it, just trying to access it.
> 
> If you first tell us haw you actually lock a variable, we then might be able
> to tell you what happens if you access it....
> 
> And in general: python has the PIL - Python Interpreter Lock - that

I think you mean the GIL (Global Interpreter Lock).  PIL is the
excellent Python Imaging Library.

> "brutally" serializes (hopefully) all accesses to python data-structures -

Nope.  It doesn't do this.  For access to items such as integers you are
probably fine, but for things like lists, dictionaries, class
attributes, etc, you're on your own.  The GIL only ensures that two
threads won't be executing Python bytecode simultaneously.  It locks the
Python *interpreter*, not your program or data structures.

> so e.g. running several threads, appending to the same list, won't result
> in messing up the internal list structure causing segfaults or the like.

True, you won't get segfaults.  However, you may very well get a
traceback or mangled data.

> That makes programming pretty easy, at the cost of lots of waiting for the
> individual threads.

Threading in Python is pretty easy, but certainly not *that* easy.  And
just to be certain, importing PIL won't help you here either <wink>.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Oct 10 23:52:13 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:52:13 -0700
Subject: help explaining default function arg weirdness
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F58@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

John M. Gabriele wrote:
> This is almost straight out of the Python tutorial,
> section 4.7.1
> 
> ------------------------code ---------------------
> #!/usr/bin/python
> 
> def func( append_this, default_list=[] ):
>      default_list.append( append_this )
>      return default_list
> 
> print func( "foo" )
> print func( "bar" )
> print func( "baz" )
> ------------------------/code-----------------
> 
> And running it gives me this:
> 
> ['foo']
> ['foo', 'bar']
> ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
> 
> which looks wrong to me. The explanation in the tutorial
> says "The default value is evaluated only once. This makes a
> difference when the default is a mutable object such as a
> list, dictionary, or instances of most classes."
> 
> I don't get it: isn't default_list a local to func()?

The name is. The value, however, is just another spot on the heap.

> Doesn't it get created/destroyed with each call to func()
> so we'd get a fresh empty one with each function call?

Nope.

> What's the rationale for having the function remember
> default_list across calls?

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-default-values-shared
-between-objects

The setting of default values is performed when the function is defined
(only once), not when it is called (each time).


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From Doran_Dermot at emc.com  Mon Oct 25 07:47:12 2004
From: Doran_Dermot at emc.com (Doran_Dermot at emc.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:47:12 +0100
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-functi
	on o   verloading.
Message-ID: <97B6410BE753D411894E00D0B77E6F7F018DCCFE@neam2mx1.isus.emc.com>

Hi Daniel,

The "return" statement will do just that!  Nothing gets executed after the
return and therefore the else is not required.  However, this does suggest
that this code is not clear to others!  That in itself is worth noting!

I agree that the manner in which I was trying to simulate "function
overloading" might also be unclear!

Thanks for the reaction.


-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+doran_dermot=emc.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+doran_dermot=emc.com at python.org]On Behalf Of
Daniel Dittmar
Sent: 25 October 2004 12:13
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Implementing class attribute access methods via
pseudo-function o verloading.


Doran_Dermot at emc.com wrote:
>   def title( self, title=None ):
>     if title == None:
>       return self._title
>     self._title = title

You probably meant
   def title( self, title=None ):
     if title == None:
        return self._title
     else:
        self._title = title

or every read access would clear the attribute.

1. Some people dislike methods that do very different things depending 
on the parameters. These are difficult to explain. Though in your case, 
one central explanation and links from all the methods should be enough.

2. None is often a useful value, so perhaps you should use a module 
local variable like _GetValue (actual value is irrelevant)
     def title (self, title = _GetValue):

Daniel
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From kdombrowski at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 00:03:11 2004
From: kdombrowski at gmail.com (Kenneth Dombrowski)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 04:03:11 GMT
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <C62dnYO2h5XrZuLcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA@rogers.com>
	<C62dnYO2h5XrZuLcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <4181C21F.6080106@gmail.com>


Hi, I was just browsing the group as a newbie to python, and I would 
hate to be thought (or be baited by) a FOSS licensing troll with my 
first post, so I apologize if these issues have been gone over already; 
in fact several people have said that they have, but I am compelled to 
reply to this thread:

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Dan Perl wrote:
> 
>> Michael, I have one comment in-line (see below), but other than that I 
>> can only say that I chose GPL for my own project.  It may discourage 
>> use of my code for commercial purposes

!??

I can only assume you're referring to the restriction that authors of 
non-free software can't link to your libraries

With your code under the GPL, anybody can use your code for commercial 
purposes, or any other purposes.  Anybody can sell it, anybody can link 
to it and sell the derivative work, with the provision that in that case 
they use the GPL for that derivitave work

> 
> This seems like an appropriate post to which to attach a reference
> to a nice article contrasting the GPL and the Mozilla Public License
> (MPL): http://croftsoft.com/library/tutorials/gplmpl/
> 
> Summary of that essay, in the words of its author:

This is a very misleading article to point someone to.

in the words of its author:

"The GPL prevents code from being sold by itself or as part of a larger 
work."

This is thoroughly false.  There is no restriction on selling GPLed 
software; from the FSF GNU GPL FAQ:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCDoesTheGPLAllowMoney

"Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money?
     Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies 
is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special 
situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one 
exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must 
accompany binary-only release.)"


He continues,

"However, it leaves the door open for the authors to commercially sell 
the code under different licensing terms if they so choose.
For example, this can easily occur:

    1. a single author may initially release code as GPL;
    2. the author later decides that the code has commercial viability;
    3. the author stops distributing the code with the GPL.
    4. the author then reissues the exact same code with a fee-based 
license.

What does this mean? It means that the GPL is a nice hedge for an author 
or organization who wants to reserve the exclusive right to commercially 
sell the software at some future point without competition."


This argument is expanded on in some detail; but relies on two 
misinterpretations of the GPL:

1. An author is certainly free to sell his/her code while it is under 
the GPL.  As is anyone else, there simply is no "right to sell the code 
exclusively" in the GPL, see above.

2. As the copyright holder, I believe the author is certainly free to 
change his/her license with a future release -- regardless of whether 
the code had changed.  But even if all reference to the GPL were removed 
from the future release, that would not revoke earlier releases' GPL 
licenses;  anyone who cared to could fork a GPL release and continue 
development provided they used the GPL license.  Thus the GPL achieves 
the one thing the author of this article attributes as the benefit of 
the MPL: a free market incentive to keep software free.


His next argument is with the "viral" nature of the GPL, but his first 
point supporting the argument is not true:

"First, it prevents the use of code released under other Open Source 
licenses, with the exception of Public Domain, from being used in 
combination to create a larger work. For example, suppose that you have 
located a third of the source code components that you need for your 
project under the GPL, another third under the X consortium/MIT style 
licenses, and the final third as Public Domain. Problem solved? No, you 
will either have to rewrite the GPL or the X consortium/MIT components 
as GPL will not co-exist with the other."

 From the top of http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html:

"We classify a license according to certain key questions:

     * Whether it qualifies as a free software license.
     * Whether it is a copyleft license.
     * Whether it is compatible with the GNU GPL. (This means you can 
combine a module which was released under that license with a 
GPL-covered module to make one larger program.)"

In fact his X11/MIT example is listed as compatible with the GPL on that 
page; I can't say whether this has changed since 1999, when this article 
was written, but it is clearly wrong today.


Last he complains that the GPL effectively creates a gulf between 
proprietary developers and FOSS developers... this certainly was an 
issue for a lot people in 1999, but I don't consider it important enough 
anymore to bore the list further


btw, I am a big fan of Mozilla, & had never bothered to read up on their 
license.  I see a version 1.1 (which presumably came out since that 
article was written) can, under certain conditions be compatible with 
the GPL -- at least according to the FSF:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html#TOCGPLIncompatibleLicenses

"MPL 1.1 has a provision (section 13) that allows a program (or parts of 
it) to offer a choice of another license as well. If part of a program 
allows the GNU GPL as an alternate choice, or any other GPL-compatible 
license as an alternate choice, that part of the program has a 
GPL-compatible license."


I certainly don't believe that the GPL is best for everyone, and if your 
main issue with the GPL is its viral nature, the MPL looks like it may 
be a good alternative, after the LGPL & X11 licenses

of course,
IANAL
TINLA
etc...

Kenneth


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct 28 09:43:14 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:43:14 +0200
Subject: logging question
References: <mailman.5609.1098967531.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clqt0b$3k3$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Neal D. Becker wrote:

> Why isn't my formatter used when I use DatagramHandler?

I'd say your formatting efforts happen on the wrong end of the connection.
What is actually sent are LogRecord objects, not formatted messages. This
gives you more flexibility, as you can add as many handlers (possibly with
different formatters) as you may wish. Below is a modification of your
"server" along these lines:

#!/usr/bin/env python

import socket
import logging
import pickle

sock = socket.socket (socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
sock.bind (("", 8881))

handler = logging.StreamHandler()
handler.setFormatter(logging.Formatter('%(asctime)s %(levelname)s
%(message)s'))
logger = logging.getLogger("fromFarAway")
logger.addHandler(handler)
    

try:
    while True:
        data, address = sock.recvfrom(8192)
        rec = logging.makeLogRecord(pickle.loads(data[4:]))
        logger.handle(rec)

finally:
    sock.close()

Whether there is a way to automatically replicate a logger hierarchy I don't
know.

Peter



From ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 15:47:44 2004
From: ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 12:47:44 -0700
Subject: 2.3.4 windows installer
References: <ck3hs6$dri$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <8a27e309.0410071147.6153ee16@posting.google.com>

Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote in message 
> changed manually at install, but that's a pain when you have 
> dozens/hundreds of machines.

When you have "dozens/hundreds of machines" in Windows you will be
better off having some kind of Application deployment mechanism such
as SMS (not that I am promoting that particular one).  Those tools
will allow you to create a wrapper installation package whith which
you can automate the way the original setup program is run.  You can
then push this installation packages at will or simply allow the users
to pull them in as desired.


From gohadbhai at rediffmail.com  Thu Oct 21 03:05:20 2004
From: gohadbhai at rediffmail.com (Sandeep Avinash Gohad)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 07:05:20 -0000
Subject: how to reading binary data...
Message-ID: <20041021070520.2594.qmail@webmail25.rediffmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041021/6bf6b03e/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
 ?
Hello

I opened any particular file with the 'rb' mode that is read binary mode. so python will treat the data as a raw data. now i want to read first 4 bytes only then i will convert the first 4 bytes into long datatype and then again read 4 bytes and will do the same.
But how to set & move the pointer using loop?
also how to convert into long?

Regards
Sandeep


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 29 06:18:20 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:18:20 +0200
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
Message-ID: <2uekatF286019U1@uni-berlin.de>

The Fumigator wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> I want to be able to create a persistent connection between an XML-RPC
> client and server... i.e. I want to be able to login once, carry
> out a number of calls and then logout rather than send login info 
> every call.
> Is there a way to do this with the xml-rpc code in the standard library?

Not to my knowlegde - and the reason is not python, but the primitiveness of
xmlrpc. It simply doesn't allow for connection state to be associated.

What I do is to create handles, and pass these around - that at least limits
and sort of normalizes the api usage:

proxy = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:7080/')
ak = proxy.authenticate(user, password)
print proxy.some_method(ak, argument)

If you want stateful connection, use better IPC-standards, as CORBA - its
way more advanced. SOAP gets attention lately, but its similarily limited
as xmlrpc, and while session state associoated with soap connections is
possible sometimes, its not standarized....


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 18:37:10 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:37:10 -0300
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <mq16m0lp7t7i1o71rf3q5g0mn0en19nh92@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.4227.1096839829.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fu-dnW0ayarAGf3cRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
	<a321m0ptb8j9rfq01mrd5pn9vg791njquf@4ax.com>
	<opmdnfljLrvGPf3cRVn-qQ@powergate.ca>
	<nkc4m0dkiqqkrmlouib0rmcl8sqv6hnb0u@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4345.1096989164.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mq16m0lp7t7i1o71rf3q5g0mn0en19nh92@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <864d37090410051537477555f3@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:51:31 GMT, Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:12:39 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro
> <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> >Keeping with the same reasoning line, why don't the engineers that
> >work in the company take more responsibility? Because they were never
> >in such a position. They don't have a choice. They have to keep things
> >running, period. The one who messes up with stuff is fired. And doing
> >development is not their company business, anyway. Want to do it? Go
> >working for a vendor.
> 
> Well... in our case we have customers that didn't probably
> see an engineer in past 10 years. Still they can buy and use
> rather hi-tech machines from us that cost several tens of
> thousands of dollars. It doesn't come as a surprise to me they
> don't want to take the responsibility for them being functional.

I was afraid that my experience would not reflect the state of the art
elsewhere. Seems it wasn't any far from truth :-)

> A sad part is that sometimes our customer support has to
> spend time to explain people what does it mean to copy a file
> from a floppy disk to a certain directory; but I've to say
> that the users that create more troubles are actually the
> "expert" ones. I would actually refuse to provide any support
> to anyone relinking my application with a newer versions of
> a library... you really wanna do it ? You're welcome, but
> don't call me if something doesn't work and you've something
> urgent to do with the system... unless you really like being
> insulted over the phone. Luckily this doesn't happen often...
> It's much more common (and a bit annoying) to see someone
> fearing updates...

When the market finally awakes from the stone age, you'll surely start
to get more calls like this. Not only from people relinking, but
patches, and *real* bug tickets found by your very customers. Get used
to it. You can't complain this way once the market is open.
 

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Oct 22 12:17:00 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:17:00 -0500
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <1098460034.4596.1.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1098460034.4596.1.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <4179327C.4030409@colorstudy.com>

Cliff Wells wrote:
>>Have you tried PageTemplates from Zope?
>>
>>They are very clever, and the macros makes it much better at reusing 
>>code than anything I have seen elsewhere.
> 
> 
> Can they be used outside of Zope?  One of my criteria was usability
> <wink>

Yep, I use them regularly.  zpt.sf.net has a somewhat out of date 
distribution (it still works fine though), and simpletal is another 
implementation.  There's even a Perl implementation (PETAL).  At some 
point the Zope people are going to make a fully up-to-date release of 
that package (without the rest of Zope), but they are mostly stuck on 
the packaging issues (the dependencies have already been worked out; it 
doesn't depend on the rest of Zope).

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Oct  3 02:56:43 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 06:56:43 GMT
Subject: WeakValueDictionary
In-Reply-To: <ZZK7d.58628$He1.34340@attbi_s01>
References: <VEK7d.58507$He1.41678@attbi_s01> <ZZK7d.58628$He1.34340@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <LoN7d.1528$M05.1046@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Bryan wrote:
> i have another question about weak references.   how do you know that b 
> is dead?
> 
> 
>  >>> a = A()
>  >>> b = weakref.ref(a)
>  >>> b
> <weakref at 011739F0; to 'instance' at 01135CB0>
>  >>> del a
>  >>> b
> <weakref at 011739F0; dead>

Quoting from the weakref PEP at
   http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0205.html

     A weak reference object will allow access to the referenced object
     if it hasn't been collected and to determine if the object still
     exists in memory.  Retrieving the referent is done by calling the
     reference object.  If the referent is no longer alive, this will
     return None instead.

 >>> class Spam:
...   def hello(self): print "Hello!"
...
 >>> a = Spam()
 >>> b = weakref.ref(a)
 >>> b().hello()
Hello!
 >>> del a
 >>> b().hello()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'hello'
 >>> b()
 >>> b() is None
True
 >>>

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From adurdin at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 19:30:03 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:30:03 +1100
Subject: Reading struct with structs
In-Reply-To: <453D335C35136F4B8163C281D58BBD882DCA6B@NBNUNYCEXCH1.nesbittburns.ca>
References: <453D335C35136F4B8163C281D58BBD882DCA6B@NBNUNYCEXCH1.nesbittburns.ca>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a04101216307167ae7a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:27:29 -0400, Baillargeon, Sonny
<sonny.baillargeon at bmonb.com> wrote:
> 
> The custom structs are arbitrary.  The struct module only allows me to
> have strict C datatypes.  How can I read in a struct recursively given I
> have to feed the struct.unpack?

Here's one idea. Suppose we have the following structs:

struct foo {
    int x;
    int y;
};
struct bar {
    int a;
    struct foo;
}

If we've read in len(struct bar) bytes into a string s:

# This Thing is only for this example; presumably you'll be wanting
# to read the data into some other class instances.
class Thing(object): pass
bar = Thing()
bar.foo = Thing()

(bar.a, bar.foo.x, bar.foo.y) = struct.unpack("iii", s)


From s917124 at mail.yzu.edu.tw  Thu Oct  7 13:53:35 2004
From: s917124 at mail.yzu.edu.tw (mike)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 10:53:35 -0700
Subject: hi...about HTMLparser
Message-ID: <761727b3.0410070953.44f66d23@posting.google.com>

regards:

(1)could I use HTMLparser to delete some element 
   and the element's content from a file?
(2)Is there a good document about how I can use the HTMLparser?


thank you
best wishes


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Oct  2 05:42:35 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:42:35 +0200
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <yfsacv6i3fg.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<415d9229$0$18966$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<yfsacv6i3fg.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <415e7803$0$9581$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> OK, but let me say that this is *not* obvious -- it is difficult to find in
> the docs (I don't really want to spawn anything and it's burried amongst a
> zillion cryptically named similar functions with a complex interface) and
> difficult to use.

I fail to see the last point. What you proposed is equally difficult to
use. And yes, you do want to spawn a new process.

> So I think many (most?) people will use os.system instead and in a way that is
> broken. If changing system is a bad idea, how about introducing a convenience
> function or adding a note to the os.system docs?

Adding notes to documentation is always possible. I don't see the point
of adding a convenience function, because os.spawn* is already there.

Regards,
Martin


From fabio_listasdiscussao at yahoo.com.br  Thu Oct 28 15:39:30 2004
From: fabio_listasdiscussao at yahoo.com.br (Fabio)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:39:30 -0300 (ART)
Subject: newbie: pygtk (win, slack10)
In-Reply-To: <slrncnsmmn.2al.davecook@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20041028193930.66724.qmail@web54001.mail.yahoo.com>

thank you!!

I found another cool link, hosted in a 'brazilian'
site, but not in 'portugUese' :)

http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=index

thats it.. thank you guys!


 --- Dave Cook <davecook at nowhere.net> escreveu: 
> In article
>
<mailman.5495.1098779417.5135.python-list at python.org>,
> Pierre N
> wrote:
> 
> > Should be enough for a while :-))
> > If I could speak Brazilian as well as you speak
> English, I would be 
> > sooo happy...
> 
> See 
> 
>   http://pygtk.org
> 
> for the tutorial and reference.
> 
> If you want to run on windows, download and install
> the gladewin package:
> 
>   http://gladewin32.sourceforge.net/
> 
> as well as the pygtk package for win32:
> 
>   http://www.pcpm.ucl.ac.be/~gustin/win32_ports/
> 
> If you have questions, there is a significant cabal
> of Portuguese
> speaking pygtk developers that hang out on gimpnet's
> #pygtk IRC channel.
> 
>   http://www.xach.com/gimpnet/
> 
> Dave Cook
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>  


	
	
		
_______________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! Acesso Gr?tis - Internet r?pida e gr?tis. Instale o discador agora! http://br.acesso.yahoo.com/


From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Fri Oct  8 14:28:55 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:28:55 -0400
Subject: wxPython toot
In-Reply-To: <20041008110316.ED97.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <4166C6C9.7030501@comcast.net>	<30B8EFDA-1952-11D9-8C02-0003939C968C@unito.it>
	<20041008110316.ED97.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <4166DC67.1030304@fastmail.fm>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>>Hi to all
>>can anyone point me to a wxpython tutorial (something like the Intro to 
>>tkinter by Lundh)?
>>    
>>
>
>I don't know if there is such a good resource, but I find just looking
>through the wxPython demo to be very educational.
>
> - Josiah
>
>  
>
I imagine that wxpython mailing-list would better serve you for such 
questions.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 02:47:08 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:47:08 +0200
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gm98e3.ewsm1jxg9y3tN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

kartik <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote:
   ...
> integers are used in different ways from strings. i may expect file

Integers are used in a huge variety of ways, and so are strings.

> paths to be around 100 characters, and if i get a 500-character path,
> i have no problem just because of the length. but if a person's age is
> 500 where i expect it to be less than 100, then **definitely**
> something's wrong.

Try doing some accounting in Turkish liras, one of these days.  Today,
each Euro is 189782957 cents of Turkish liras.  If an Italian firm
selling (say) woodcutting equipment bids on a pretty modest contract in
Turkey, offering machinery worth 2375220 Euros, they need to easily
compute that their bid is 450776275125540 cents of Turkisk Liras.  And
that's a _pretty modest_ contract, again -- if you're doing some
computation about truly substantial sums (e.g. ones connected to
government budgets) the numbers get way larger.

[[and yes, integer numbers of some fraction of a currency, typically
cents, are a good and practical way to do accounting -- nix floating
point, be it binary or decimal]].

Sure, Turkey will rebase its currency in 2005 -- but who can predict
when some other country's currency will similarly debase.  Even just for
accounting, unlimited-size integers are simply much more practical.


> as another example, using too long a string as an index into a
> dictionary is not a problem (true, the dictionary may not have a
> mapping, but i have the same issue with a short string). but too long
> an index into a list rewards me with an exception.

But the same index, used as a dictionary key, works just fine.  Specious
argument, therefore.


> as i look at my code, i rarely have an issue with string sizes, but if
> an integer variable gets very large (say > 2**31 or 2**63), it
> generally reflects a bug in my code.

This may be peculiar to the kind of code you write -- if you hit more
bugs whose symptom is a large integer than ones whose symptom is a large
string, you're probably generating fewer strings than integers.  But
many other people's code have the opposite character, and it's quite
presumptous of you to suggest changing Python without considering that.


> i suggest u base your comments on real code, rather than reasoning in
> an abstract manner from your ivory tower.

I suggest you take your blinkers off, and look at all ways integers are
commonly used in all sorts of computations, rather than imagining your
personal code is the end of the world.  As common and everyday a
computation (in some fields) as the factorial of 1000 (number of
permutations of 1000 objects) is 2**8530 -- and combinatorial arithmetic
is anything but an "ivory tower" pursuit these days, and factorial is
the simplest building block in combinatorial arithmetic.

If you need objects with constraints, build them as custom types.
Subclass int, str, whatever, to accept bounds or other checkers in their
constructors (or as compiletime constants, whatever), convert the result
of each operation to the same type, and raise as soon as an instance is
constructed that's out of bounds.  It's not a difficult exercise, and if
you design and apply your constraints well it may help you catch some
categories of bugs sooner than without such constraints.

Once you have convincing use cases and experience to show that this kind
of thing is more useful than previously noticed, _then_ you may stand a
chance to have some kind of optional limit-checking subtypes rolled into
Python's core/standard library.  So far, you have nothing of the kind.


Alex


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 10:20:46 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:20:46 -0700
Subject: locks
In-Reply-To: <ckjd0k$li6$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4835.1097670275.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qa-dnWDkDKi-uPDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4845.1097675044.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckjd0k$li6$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1097677246.12092.152.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 16:10 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> > Okay, to clarify, for the most part I *was* in fact referring to "higher
> > level issues".  I doubt tracebacks or mangled data would occur simply
> > due to the operation's being non-atomic.  However, if you have code that
> > say, checks for an item's existence in a list and then appends it if it
> > isn't there, it may cause the program to fail if another thread adds
> > that item between the time of the check and the time of the append.
> > This is what I was referring to by potential for mangled data and/or
> > tracebacks.
> 
> _That_ of course I'm very well aware of - but to my expirience, with several
> dozen threads appending to one list I never encountered a interpreter
> failure. That is in contrast to java, where you get an
> "ConcurrentModificationException" unless you don't ask specifically for a
> synchronized variant of the collection of yours.

Have you looked at the Queue module?  It was explicitly designed for
this sort of thing and removes all doubt about thread-safety.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From j at jochem.{N0SP4M}.tv  Mon Oct  4 03:08:01 2004
From: j at jochem.{N0SP4M}.tv (Berends)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:08:01 +0200
Subject: detecting socket in use on localhost
Message-ID: <cjqssg$bh7$1@news.tudelft.nl>

I am looking for some code to detect whether or not there is already a 
listener to a socket (tcp or udp) on the localhost.

I am writing some software that can be run multiple times on a localhost 
and each will instantiate a listener in a range of ports. I have checked 
several resources (Cookbook, Python Network Programming (Goerzen), 
Programming Python(Lutz)) but cannot find the crux.

Anyone care to point me to some nice methods?

ciao Jochem


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 12 20:22:52 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:22:52 -0400
Subject: How to: get list of modules in a package
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4767.1097608127.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <4OudnSEQhLvFyfbcRVn-pg@rogers.com><dfWdnaXpKtgvb_bcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>	<mailman.4757.1097594848.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Ev-dnS1wxIC7hfHcRVn-tQ@rogers.com>
	<mailman.4767.1097608127.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aYidnczskf7G6PHcRVn-iw@powergate.ca>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
> referring to Peter's comment that he'd not seen anyone produce modules 
> 'from "thin air"', rather than to whether this could be solved in the 
> general case.  I was backing him up in his assertion that there's no 
> *general* way to solve the problem, rather than attempting to contradict 
> him :)  (those Canucks get dangerous when contradicted).
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No they don't!

-Peter

P.S.: See you at the PyGTA meeting in two weeks, Mike...


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 03:19:32 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 00:19:32 -0700
Subject: ANN: PySourceColor 1.7
References: <18282ecb.0410141705.4fb6de25@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410142319.289a980c@posting.google.com>

mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer) wrote in message news:<18282ecb.0410141705.4fb6de25 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello all,
>     This version of PySourceColor supports decorators.
> It looks like the syntax is there for a while, so I decided add them
> in.
> They parser code has also been extended to seperate all 12 types of
> string.
> I rewrote the _Null colorscheme to actually be null format.
> Changed the old _Null to _Mono a black and white colorscheme for
> printing.
> Also added a few utility functions.
> If you don't like the builtin colorschemes you should be able to write
> a colorscheme that looks exactly like you want.
> This is something that would be nice to have built into pydoc.
> The links at the top-right of a pydoc page could point to a colorized
> source and a plain text version :)
> This program should run with Python 2.0 -> 2.4.
> The code can be any version.
> Just save to a file and run it.
> It will parse itself into 6 diffrent webpages and show them.

Hey, this is pretty cool!
However the long lines where cut in the posted message and I had to fix
them by hand (those are the rare situations where I would lke Python was 
not an indentation-sensitive language :-(). I also replaced "MyDir"
with "tmp" which looks as a sensible default, at least on Unices.
Good work,

            Michele Simionato


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 03:34:32 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:34:32 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
   ...
> Like I said with eval, DO NOT USE THIS!  It almost certainly
> means you're doing the wrong thing.  It's full of security
> holes and there are nearly always better ways to solve
> the underlying problem.

Applause and full agreement.

> > I know but that's a real bummer.  No way around that?
> 
> Python is not a functional programming language.
> 
> Do you want it because it's cool or because it's useful?

I'd bet a decorator to munge a function or method (by bytecode hacking)
into lean tail-call won't be long emerging.  My use case for this was
the nightmare of 'recursion limits exceeded' for a nevow page with a few
hundred deferreds -- they got (implicitly, by the framework) chained to
each other by tail call (for termination purposes), and besides the
orrid waste of time in building all those frames for nothing, the
exception-within-an-exception was hell to debug.  There are workarounds,
of course, but being able to code the obvious solution directly would be
useful.

> Python doesn't support Smalltalk's system image.  That's
> probably a good thing.

I was very used to workspaces back in the days of APL and I still miss
them.  Why is it good not to have them?


> > I'd like to be able to use a string as an integer without an explicit
> > coerion on my part for example.
> 
> NO!  Don't do that.  Bad code.  Subtle errors.
> 
> Try Perl or Ruby instead.

Not Ruby!  That's a _good_ language:

kallisti:~/cb/cha/tex/cba alex$ ruby         
2+"23"
-:1:in `+': String can't be coerced into Fixnum (TypeError)
        from -:1

to perpetrate such horrors, he definitely wants Perl.


> > That is quite a shame, no modules for this either huh?
> 
> It quite depends on your expectations of what design by
> contract, protocols, etc. means.  Do some research.  Hint:
> Google for 'python "design by contract"' and related topics.

'python protocols' and/or adaptation is quite a different (but related)
tack also worth googling for.

> >>> 43. Embedding variables in strings like: print "Hello, World. Time:
> >>> #{Time.now}"
> >>
> >> t = time.asctime()
> >> print "Hello World %(t)s"%{'t':t}
> >> print "Hello World %(t)s"%locals()
> > 
> > That is messy, exactly why I wanted the kind of clear embedding I gave
> > an example for.  Oh well.
> 
> You asked for "embedding variables" not embedding expressions.
> You got what you asked for, not what you wanted.  That's part
> of being able to ask the right question.  Remember that essay
> people suggested you read?

Well, in 2.4 w/string.Template he does get variables specifically (with
nicer syntax), but if the '%(...)s' syntax ain't too messy for him
interpolating expressions is still possible (maybe not _wise_...):

>>> class map:
...   def __getitem__(self,name): return eval(name)       
... 
>>> print 'hello world at %(time.asctime())s' % map()
hello world at Tue Oct  5 09:22:52 2004

Not sure what docs (besides Python Cookbook and Python in a Nutshell)
one would have to read to find this answer -- differently from most
other questions he's asking, this one's hardly obvious from docs...

 
> > Really?  Hmmmm, does anyone know of a bridge between Python and Ruby?
> 
> Why not just use Ruby?  It seems to fit your search criteria
> much better.

I agree with you that it does, though not as well as you appear to
believe (e.g. no `` 2 + "23" '' abominations in Ruby, either).  Perl
might be better still for what he's asking -- said abomination does
work, he gets to mess with syntax (google for lingua latina perligata),
and so forth.


Alex


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 30 02:07:23 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 06:07:23 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41832f8b.1140475326@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:58:47 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>I hesitate a bit to post this, but... on the Italian Python NG, somebody
>was asking whether there was any way to convert an integer number x into
>a string which represents it in an arbitrary base N (given a sequence
>with a len of N that gives the digits to use) as "a single expression".
>
>I haven't found a really general way, much less a clear one, but, the
>best I have so far is...:
>
>def number_in_base(x, N, digits, maxlen=99):
>    return '-'[x>=0:] + (
>        (x and ''.join([digits[k%N] for i in range(maxlen) 
>                        for k in [abs(x)//N**i] if k>0])[::-1]
>        ) or digits[0])
>
>Besides the lack of clarity, the obvious defect of this approach is that
>darned 'maxlen' parameter -- but then, since I can have only a 'for',
>not a 'while', in a list comprehension or generator expression, and I
>don't think recursion qualifies as 'a single expression'...:-(
>
>Anyway, improvements and suggestions welcome, thanks!
>
Maybe something useful in this? Not very tested (and not terribly clear either ;-)

 >>> def number_in_base(x, N, digits):
 ...     return x==0 and digits[0] or '-'[:x<0] + ''.join([d for d in iter(
 ...                 lambda qr=[abs(x),0]:qr[0] and (
 ...                     qr.__setslice__(0,2,divmod(qr[0],N)) or digits[qr[1]])
 ...                 , 0)][::-1])
 ...
 >>> number_in_base( 126 ,2,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '1111110'
 >>> number_in_base( 126 ,8,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '176'
 >>> number_in_base( 126 ,16,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '7E'
 >>> number_in_base( 1   ,16,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '1'
 >>> number_in_base( 0   ,16,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '0'
 >>> number_in_base(-126 ,16,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '-7E'
 >>> number_in_base(-126 ,2,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '-1111110'

Even less tested, and using a list subtype with overridden next to do the same:

 >>> def number_in_base(x, N, digits):
 ...     return x==0 and digits[0] or '-'[:x<0] + ''.join([d for d in type('',(list,),{
 ...                 '__iter__':lambda s:s, 'next':lambda s:(
 ...                     s[0] is 0 and iter([]).next() or
 ...                     s.__setslice__(0,2,divmod(s[0],N)) or digits[s[1]])
 ...                 })([abs(x),0])][::-1])
 ...
 >>> number_in_base(-126, 8, '01234567')
 '-176'
 >>> number_in_base(-126, 2, '01')
 '-1111110'
 >>> number_in_base(126, 2, '01')
 '1111110'
 >>> number_in_base( 0 , 2, '01')
 '0'
 >>> number_in_base( 1 , 2, '01')
 '1'

;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From just at xs4all.nl  Fri Oct 29 03:38:20 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:38:20 +0200
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>
	<1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
 aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

> Ganesan R <rganesan at myrealbox.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > That aside, I am wondering if it isn't time to push ctypes for inclusion
> > into the standard Python distribution. Too late for Python 2.4, but how
> > about Python 2.5?
> 
> Seconded!  Python 2.5 should be mostly about standard-library
> enhancements, and ctypes would be a huge enhancement to Python's stdlib.

In general, Guido is very reluctant to accept thing which make is easy 
to cause segfaults. I predict you'll have a very hard time convincing 
him...

Just


From noone at here.com  Sun Oct  3 15:52:29 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 20:52:29 +0100
Subject: append to  items  depending on prior item
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjp8of$b9i$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cjpeah$vb9$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjpgdn$ic6$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cjpl61$ql3$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi Peter,

Thankyou. You have been really helpful, I appreciate it.

Malcolm




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 03:14:29 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:14:29 +0200
Subject: append to  items  depending on prior item
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjq9l0$kcv$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjqkub$ubv$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1gl4jhm.1phvdnik1aiefN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

M. Clift <noone at here.com> wrote:
   ...
> What I want to do is append to each item an extra value depending on the
> previous item.
> 
> Too keen to get help, what I should have written is;
> 
> What I want to do is append to each item an extra value depending on the
> previous item and itself.

So, you mean the key is not just the previous, but the pair
(previous,item)?  OK, not necessarily a big difference...: you can
either use the pairs as keys, or make a nested dictionary.

> Alex gave me this;
> 
> def weird_appender(sequence):
>     choices = dict({None: 'abc'}, item1='abc', item2='def')

Change this to something like:

# what if there IS no 'previous item', i.e., the first time, or for
# all those cases which are not explicititly in the dictionary...:
first_time_choices = {'item1': 'abc', 'item2': 'def', }
# general case
choices = { None: first_time_choices,
            'item1': {'item1': 'blu', 'item2': 'ghi', },
            'item2': {'item1': 'jkm', 'item2': 'nop', },
          }

>     previous = None
>     for item in sequence:
>         yield item+random.choice(choices.get(previous, choices[None]))
>         previous = item

and here, access the nested dicts -- clearer when done less concisely,
in separate steps rather than all inline:
          d = choices.get(previous, first_time_choices)
          choose = d.get(item, [''])
          yield item + random.choice(choose)
          previous = item

>         print weird_appender(sequence)

this is misaligned -- remove leading space, I don't know how it got
there (it definitely wasn't there in my post!!!).  The 'p' of print must
align with the 'd' of 'def weird...'.  The print is done after the
function weird_appender is done being defined, most definitely *NOT* as
part of the 'for' loop in said function's body...!!!

> 
> What I want to do is append to an item, but rather than just getting this
> value based on the previous choice
> I'd like to say if previous item is 'item1a' and the current item is item2

Ah, you want to key on the previous _output_ item rather than the
previous _input_ one?  OK, then further alter in the latest snippet the
last two statements to be instead:

          previous = item + random.choice(choose)
          yield previous

> append some choice. or else if the current item is
> item3 append a diferent choice.

If you LIKE to say if/else if, there's nothing stopping you from saying
it.  I think the dictionary accesses are clearer, but changing them into
a few nested if/elif/else trees is hardly difficult - it just (IMHO)
worsens the code's quality, that's all.

 
> Now, I know none of you are on my payroll (and I have been asking for help a
> lot), but if that is easy to impliment I would be grateful
> if someone could show me how. However, if it isn't so easy to do, is the
> previous code Alex gave me along the right lines for my new requirement?

If your requirement is now correctly expressed and divined, yes.  If you
gave us the true requirement (what application problem are you actually
trying to solve) rather than asking for advice on how to implement one
design you appear to have already chosen, we might be on a sounder basis
in making such statements, of course.

> So that if I go away and change / add to it myself I might eventually get it
> to work. If not, could someone point me in the direction I should look
> at other than a dictionary method. I see it as a sort of multiplication
> lookup table i.e. previous items already appended are looked for along the
> x axis, the current item unappended is on the y axis, reading along from
> both gives the value to append to the current item.

Right, the nested dictionaries give you something akin to a 2-d array,
except that each axis is indexed by string rather than by number.
Again, this contrasts with your assertion in this very post that you'd
LIKE to say "if" and "else" -- the dictionaries are there exactly in
order to _avoid_ the rich nesting of 'if/elif/else' trees, moving some
complexity from code to "data tables".


> Thanks for putting up with me,

No problem, really.


Alex


From sean0601 at pchome.com.tw  Fri Oct 15 02:34:16 2004
From: sean0601 at pchome.com.tw (Sean)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 23:34:16 -0700
Subject: pythondoc or epydoc?
References: <cjr2n0$17v1@qum07.mms-dresden.de>
	<mailman.4564.1097228469.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <684bd072.0410142234.35ee0c85@posting.google.com>

I would like to use epydoc to generate documents, but got the following error.

C:\PROJECT>\python23\python \python23\scripts\epydoc.py --debug test1.py
Importing 1 modules.
  [1/1] Importing test1.py
Building API documentation for 1 modules.
  [1/1] Building docs for test1
    Building docs for test1
    Building docs for test1.main
    Building docs for test1.MyApp
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "\python23\scripts\epydoc.py", line 17, in ?
    cli()
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\epydoc\cli.py", line 110, in cli
    docmap = _make_docmap(modules, options)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\epydoc\cli.py", line 483, in _make_docmap
    try: d.add(module)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\epydoc\objdoc.py", line 2954, in add
    self._add(objID)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\epydoc\objdoc.py", line 2968, in _add
    self._add(link.target())
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\epydoc\objdoc.py", line 2961, in _add
    self.add_one(objID)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\epydoc\objdoc.py", line 2900, in add_one
    self.data[objID] = ClassDoc(objID, self._verbosity)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\epydoc\objdoc.py", line 1589, in __init__
    self._base_order = [make_uid(b) for b in base_order]
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\epydoc\uid.py", line 781, in make_uid
    uid = ObjectUID(object)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\epydoc\uid.py", line 418, in __init__
    name = self._findname()
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\epydoc\uid.py", line 509, in _findname
    return '%s.%s' % (self.module(), objname)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\epydoc\uid.py", line 585, in module
    if (self._module is not None and
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\wx\misc.py", line 3581, in __eq__
    return _misc.DateTime___eq__(*args)
TypeError: Expected a pointer

The version of wxpython is 2.5.
This script can be executed normally.

How could I solve the problem?

Regards,
Sean


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 17 17:50:19 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:50:19 GMT
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
References: <mailman.5015.1097859379.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckp0vj$r1g$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1glsuhc.10eukauy09rs8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ckuad9$nba$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4172e878.73704100@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:33:32 +0200, "Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:

>> However, there are no problems whatsoever with the issue you remark on,
>> as long as the method never alters the 'items' object.  As long as only
>> nonmutating methods get called on 'items', i.e., 'items' is practically
>> treated as "read-only", Donnal Walter's approach is just fine.  The
>> issue you remark on does deserve to be made, but it's also important to
>> understand when it does matter and when it doesn't.
>
>You are right of course, but the high frequency of postings regarding
>"strange default value behaviour" made me want to make this point before
>Donnal steps into that pitfall. And while the example at hand didn't alter
>the contents of items, I'd nevertheless settled for items=None and used
>something like this:
>
>def foo(items=None):
>    if not items is None:
>        ....

I like to use the idiom

    def foo(items=None):
        if items is None: items = {} # or whatever non-shared mutable
        ...

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Oct 19 12:50:42 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:50:42 -0700
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3244FDF@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Robert Brewer wrote:
> > def warehouse(stock, factory=None):
> 
> Most of the building blocks for the warehouse() are already 
> there, but you didn't use them, oddly enough.

Oddly enough, tee isn't in my version (2.3.2) of Python except as an
example. ;)
Thanks for the exhaustive discussion below.

> So here comes a variant written in terms of current (2.4) itertools:
> 
> >>> from itertools import *
> >>> def peek(iterable):
> ...     a, b = tee(iterable)
> ...     try:
> ...             return a, b.next()
> ...     except StopIteration:
> ...             raise ValueError("cannot peek into an empty iterable")
> ...
> >>> iterable = iter("abc")
> >>> iterable, first = peek(iterable)
> >>> factory = first.__class__
> >>> data = range(10)
> >>> for a, b in izip(data, chain(iterable, starmap(factory, 
> repeat(())))):
> ...     print a, repr(b)
> ...
> 0 'a'
> 1 'b'
> 2 'c'
> 3 ''
> 4 ''
> 5 ''
> 6 ''
> 7 ''
> 8 ''
> 9 ''

[snip]

> So now you can do
> 
> chain(iterable, repeatfunc(factory))
> 
> after putting a copy of these recipes into your 
> site-packages. Why aren't they already there, btw?

I'm not sure which particular recipes you mean (peek?). But in general,
I don't write scripts for my own limited use; I'm writing frameworks,
which shouldn't depend upon little recipes scattered hither and yon. :/

> The only extra your warehouse() has to offer is the (last) 
> item's class as the default factory for the padding items.
> I don't think that is needed often enough to warrant the
> inclusion in the itertools.

Understood. I think Raymond is right; at most, it should be a Cookbook
entry.

Actually, the big "extra" I see with warehouse() is wrapping up all of
the iteration cruft(combined with the return of the inner iterator to
the caller, who can then clean up any remaining items). Having seen your
alternative, I can see it basically comes down to readability for me; I
find warehouse() to be a nice packaging of a common idiom for my apps.
I'm the only programmer here at my organization; sometimes I just need a
"guy down the hall" to keep me in line. :) Thanks for doing that.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Fri Oct  1 16:40:48 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 20:40:48 GMT
Subject: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow
 after an exception is raised)
In-Reply-To: <4b39d922.0410011152.31fb1dae@posting.google.com>
References: <4b39d922.0410011152.31fb1dae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <khj7d.18496$H11.569042@twister1.libero.it>

Lonnie Princehouse ha scritto:

> In a recent post, Michele Simionato asked about resumable (or
> re-entrant) exceptions, the basic idea being that when raised and
> uncaught, these exceptions would only propagate backwards through a
> limited number of frames before being implicitly ignored. 

I don't understand: why resumable exceptions should be ignored after 
they propagate for a limited number of frames?

the only idea of resumable exceptions I have is that they allow you to , 
well, resume excution from the point they were raised.


From limodou at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 03:02:30 2004
From: limodou at gmail.com (limodou)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:02:30 +0800
Subject: ANN:NewEdit 2.8 released
Message-ID: <505f13c04100800026c8c2f3b@mail.gmail.com>

The new version 2.8 NewEdit is released! You can download it from : 

source: http://wiki.woodpecker.org.cn/moin.cgi/NewEdit?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=newedit_2.8r1.zip
windows installer:
http://wiki.woodpecker.org.cn/moin.cgi/NewEdit?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=NewEdit2.8.exe

What's new?

New Features:

1. When searching in regular expression, you can replace in regular expression 
2. Inputing Chinese Charactors in Shell window and Message window 
3. Auto completion, Auto calltip 
4. Dispaly free memory in statusbar in Windows platform 
5. Directly output text to HTML view window 
6. User definced hotkey
7. Modification:

   [skip]

There are two unresolving prombles in Windows Installer that:

1. DDE invalidation 
2. Plugin wxPythonDocument and PythonDoc path error, the path is not
the Python installation directory, but NewEdit installation directory,
so if you want to use them, please correct the path yourself.

The document is written in Chinese, so if you have any question,
please me email.

project homepage: http://newedit.tigris.org

-- 
I like python!


From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Oct  6 18:43:49 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:43:49 -0400
Subject: difficult zipefile Question
References: <d588131f.0410061437.4ecda4bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ytydnRXeY_ix6PncRVn-jw@rogers.com>

I may be wrong, and I may have to eat my words later, but I think that the 
zip file format does not handle empty folders.  I tried it myself with 
winzip just a few days ago.  I think that zip only keeps a list of files 
with their path so the folder will not be stored in the zip file if there is 
no file in that folder.  Like I already said, I may be wrong, but I would 
recommend that you use tarfile instead.

Dan

"matthiasjanes" <matthiasjanes at gmx.net> wrote in message 
news:d588131f.0410061437.4ecda4bf at posting.google.com...
> hello all,
>
> i want to zip a folder plus the files and subfolders.
>
> which works something like that:
>
> #sample code
>
> import os, zipfile
>
> def zipit(path, ziper):
>
>  for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):
>
>    for anyFile in files:
>
>      fullname = os.path.join(root, anyFile)
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>
>  ziper = zipfile.ZipFile('test.zip', 'w')
>  zipit('somefolderTozip', ziper)
>  ziper.close()
> #____________________________
>
>
> this works fine as long as there is no empty subfolder.
>
> can anyone tell me - or better give me a small example of code how to
> add an empty folder to the zip archive.
>
> thanks mr. janes 




From emanuel.landeholm at telia.com  Fri Oct 29 06:54:03 2004
From: emanuel.landeholm at telia.com (Emanuel Landeholm)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:54:03 GMT
Subject: C API q
Message-ID: <fjpgd.120483$dP1.407216@newsc.telia.net>

Hello!

I'm a Py neophyte trying to code an extension module in C. I would like 
to know how, canonically, to remove a certain PyObject from a PyList, 
from C. The solution I have come up with so far involves iterating 
through the PyList keeping a counter, and then using 
PyList_DelItem(counter) on the counter when the iter item == the 
PyObject. But this is kind of messy. I'm sure there's a cleaner way to 
do it?

TIA,
Emanuel


From loritsch at gmail.com  Sat Oct 16 20:32:05 2004
From: loritsch at gmail.com (Michael Loritsch)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 17:32:05 -0700
Subject: windows services
References: <mailman.5046.1097941098.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e253918f.0410161632.a8cbf91@posting.google.com>

Francis Lavoie <francisl at aei.ca> wrote in message news:<mailman.5046.1097941098.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Is it possible to restart windows services? (remotely and locally)
> 
> Because I have a little script that retreive the LastWaitTimeout key of 
> the automatic update, delete that key if it out schedule for our 
> production needs. But still the service need to be restarded if I want 
> that key to be reset, when Win Update will resynchronize with the sus 
> server for new update.
> 
> Thankx

Since this is a windows specific question, you must have the windows
extensions installed.  I'm assuming you either already have them, or
know where to get them, as that is a different question entirely...

The python module that you need to perform this task is win32service.

In order to restart a service, you should do two things:

1) Tell the service control manager (SCM) to stop the service 
2) Then tell the SCM to start the service.

Thus, the pseudocode to restart a service is as follows:

1) Obtain a handle to the SCM -> use win32service.OpenSCManager
2) Obtain a handle the service you wish to stop -> use
win32service.OpenService
3) Tell the service to stop -> use win32service.ControlService with
the proper control code for stopping a service.
4) Start the service -> use win32service.StartService

Regards,

Michael Loritsch


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Oct 11 16:51:00 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:51:00 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>

gabriele renzi wrote:

>
> then what you want is a better lambda. One where you can use return, 
> maybe, and  where you can have statements and multiple expressions.
> Don't throw away the baby with the bathwater.


But because of Python's line- and indentation-based syntax, doing all of 
that on a single line is... um... awkward at best, to put it mildly.  
And once you make a lambda multiline, then you lose most of the point of 
it -- at least, as far as I understand what the point is (having an 
in-line, anonymous callable).  Once you allow statements and multiple 
expressions, all you're gaining is anonymity, which seems like a pretty 
paltry benefit to me.

>> That's a lot of special treatment for those cases where there 
>> actually might be a slight advantage to using an anonymous function, 
>> and "Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules."  
>> Lambdas *do* break many of Python's usual rules.
>>
>
> Just because you're thinking of lambdas as special cases. Whenever a 
> case is very useful it is possible to break the rules. That's why 
> there are all those funny literals.


I agree that, if a case is *very* useful, it is possible to break the 
rules.  List comprehensions, for example, break some of the rules, but 
they are indeed very useful, so the rule-breakage is more forgiveable.

Maybe I'm just ignorant or behind the times, but I still haven't seen a 
real argument as to *why* lambdas are so useful.  There's some 
assertions about how avoiding giving something a name makes things 
clearer, which I disagree with.  ('Explicit is better than implicit.'  I 
don't see how 'no name' makes the purpose of a code segment clearer than 
'some meaningfully descriptive name', no matter how many times it's 
asserted.)  There's complaints that it takes a whole two extra lines to 
type a proper function def, as opposed to being able to use lambdas 
inline... but again, I'd claim that with a properly named function, the 
intent at point-of-use will be quite clear and the cost of two extra 
lines of code is minimal.  (I also tend to break complex expressions 
into multiple steps to increase clarity -- packing as much as possible 
into a single line doesn't strike me as all that desirable.)  There's 
complaints about polluting the namespace... but ISTM that it's not 
*that* hard to come up with uniquely descriptive names.  Lambdas may 
once have had some utility in capturing and tinkering with the scoping 
of names, but that became moot with the introduction of nested scopes 
'way back when.

I understand that lambdas are very popular in other programming 
languages (such as Lisp).  But Python is not those languages, and which 
constructs are useful may well be different.  I don't know enough Lisp 
to judge how helpful lambdas are there; I do know enough Python to 
believe that I should be able to see the advantages if they were as 
wonderful as their proponents say.  My suspicion is that all of the 
Python users who like lambdas originally discovered them in other 
languages and are comfortable with them from that environment, but those 
who have no previous exposure to lambdas tend to be unimpressed (at 
best) by Python's take on them.  This renders them, IMO, in the same 
category as the ternary operator that's continually proposed by converts 
from, say, C/C++ -- a feature whose usability is much greater in other 
languages than in Python, and whose inclusion would only satisfy those 
familiar with the feature from those other languages.  The only 
difference between the two features, IMO, is that someone managed to 
talk Guido into including lambdas (which he reportedly regrets), and 
nobody managed to talk him into including the ternary operator.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From whwang at autotradecenter.com  Mon Oct 11 14:31:51 2004
From: whwang at autotradecenter.com (w)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 11:31:51 -0700
Subject: a question to run a Python program using PMW
Message-ID: <68b8ad51.0410111031.507a3f35@posting.google.com>

I am new to Python and I am trying to run an old program. I do not
know what version this old program was running back in 2001 ( I know
it was run successfully). I got the source codes from the office and I
downloaded Python 2.3 and Pmw 1.2. when ran the program I got the
following message

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "BidderUI.py", line 12, in ?
import os.path, string, Pmw
File "C:\Python23\Pmw\__init__.py", line 35, in ?
__import__(_loader)
ImportError: No module named Pmw_1_2.lib.PmwLoader

I did create Pmw.py by running bunddlepmw.py. I also find PmwLoader.py
under the PMW_1_2/lib directory. Does anyone know how to fix this? did
I miss any steps ?

Thanks

W


From Mark.English at liffe.com  Tue Oct  5 07:18:15 2004
From: Mark.English at liffe.com (Mark English)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:18:15 +0100
Subject: [OT] New to Python: Features
Message-ID: <40E605146701DE428FAF21286A97D3091744C6@wphexa02.corp.lh.int>

Ignore those unhelpful comments you've seen. You're obviously just here
to learn and learn you shall.

> Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the 
> following 
> support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*
I'm relatively new myself but just this second a large C++ program is
building and sucking up most of my CPU so I'll try to answer some of
these intriguingly well thought out questions while it does so. My
knowledge is a little sketchy but I'm sure others on the list will
clarify my many mistakes. Apologies for the length of this post.
Actually, apologies for this post.


> 1. Multi line comments
No. There are no comments in Python.

> 2. Functions as variables:
>     a. functions can be stored in variables, passed as arguments to 
> other functions, and returned as results.
Confusingly Python programmers use snake names when talking about
programming languages. Conversely, when talking about functions in
Python people are actually refering to an endangered species of
blue-winged penguin.

> 3. Function nesting with proper lexical scope (i.e. closures) 
The penguins do nest, yes.

> 4. Operator overloading (inc. the ability to define new 
> operators)
You can't define more than 5 new operators. After this it was decided
you'd really be going too far with this whole O-O thing, leading to a
quite different meaning for "overloading" in Python. Python programmers
like to be different ;)

5. Can I do this?  print("Hello " .. "World")  --> 
> Hello World
You just did it ! In Python you can do anything. Join us.

6. Constructors
In Python these are called "Buildy Things".

7. "Chunks": as in a code block 
> contained within a string, file, or 
> delimited by some sort of notation (such as brackets) which can be 
> passed to and from functions, stored in objects, with the option of 
> local scoping of variables declared within it.
Code is actually contained in special "envelopes" fed into
Python-engineered devices built into the back of most computers these
days. Hand-crafted code in Python is literally just that.

> 8. "Repeat-Until" as in :
>     repeat
>       line = os.read()
>     until line ~= ""
>     print(line)
Yes but this invokes the special Python boolean syntax where false is
"bored" and true is "interesting". You'll see a lot of "repeat until
bored" code in Python.

> 9. Generic for loops where " for i=1,f(x) do print(i) end" 
> would print i 
> only once.
No. "for" loops are branded with a tiny icon embedded in the "f".

> 10. Can I call an object's method as object:method(arg) and have that 
> translate into object.method(object, arg)
Yes but the object is actually a sub-object belonging to the object type
which is itself an instance of class object. What you need to do is:
object.type(object).method(object, arg(object,
bored)).arg.object.call(instance=object.method, arg=arg,
method=whatever, time=invented_by_Swiss).

> 11. Can I make dynamic statements and nature like with eval() 
> in Javascript?
There's a lot of nature in Python. Most programmers prefer a pastoral
setting although some are hardy sea-faring folk. You should therefore
intersperse any documentation with thoughts about your garden, when to
harvest your crops, when the tide is likely to come in this evening,
etc. Also many Python programmers consider "eval" to be evil because of
that one letter difference. It's all in the semiotics.

12. Can I make calls to a function with a varying number of arguments?
See 5. But then re-read 2.

13. Named arguments
They're all named by repetitions of spam, where argument 1 is "spam",
argument 2 is "spamspam" and so on.

14. Tables with built-in methods for manipulation such as sort, etc.
Python doesn't use tables. Ever.

15. Table filters
See 14.

15. Proper Tail Call (otherwise known as Proper 
> Tail Recursion)
That's two 15's. Is this a form of duplicit recursion ?

16. The ability to call a function without 
> brackets
You're kidding, right. Right ? Without brackets ? That's... that's just
not possible is it ?

17. Is the Python interpreter a JIT? Does it have a 
> bytecode?  Is it as 
> fast as Java?
Python is generally 2000 to 3000 times faster than Java if you run Java
on a toaster and Python on a super-cooled space computer orbiting
Saturn.


> 18. The ability to modify the import/require functionality 
> (how modules 
> can be loaded)
"Modules" are the envelopes code comes in. See 7.

Sorry, my compilation has finished. Hope that helps...



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From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 08:08:34 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 05:08:34 -0700
Subject: Recycle Bin and Python
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410150408.165c95c4@posting.google.com>

How do I move files into the windoze recycle bin from python ?

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  8 10:17:59 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:17:59 -0400
Subject: literal hex value to bin file.
In-Reply-To: <6e07b825.0410072051.5504e4f2@posting.google.com>
References: <6e07b825.0410070125.5b3e47a3@posting.google.com>
	<DaKdnbopTNVBvfjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<6e07b825.0410072051.5504e4f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <trGdnURku98FPPvcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>

yaipa h. wrote:
> I seemed to have worked it out.  The bit of code below will write the
> actual
> hex string literal to a binary file as is.  What I kept getting was
> the hexascii representation of the hex string, so that '9' would write
> to file as 0x39 and 'a' would write to the file as 0x61. What I wanted
> was '9' to write to the file as 0x09 and '7f' to write out as 0x7f.
> 
> #-----------------------------------------------
> import struct
> 
> a = struct.pack('B', int('ff', 16))
> 
> fh = open("a.hex", "wb")
> fh.write(a)
> fh.close()
> #-----------------------------------------------
> # results in the binary file 'a.hex' containing,
> 0xff  # only

Yep, you've got it.  As Paul suggests, chr() works nicely
for a single byte though.

Also investigate the binascii module, specifically the
hexlify() and unhexlify() methods, which work nicely on
entire strings of 2-digit hex values:

 >>> import binascii
 >>> binascii.unhexlify('097f')
'\t\x7f'
 >>> chr(9) + chr(0x7f)
'\t\x7f'
 >>> struct.pack('BB', int('09', 16), 0x7f)
'\t\x7f'

All of those are of course the same... depends on your
needs.

(Note that the output is the repr() value of the string,
which in this case contains an ASCII 9 and 7F, thus the
\t or TAB escape sequence followed by the hex escape
sequence representation of the 7F byte.  Sometimes the
fact that the interactive interpreter always does a repr()
on the output of expressions can be confusing.)

-Peter


From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Oct 19 12:43:18 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:43:18 -0700
Subject: Kerberos authentication w/ Python on Windows
References: <cl27jv$olr$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <donn-BAFC34.09431819102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <cl27jv$olr$1 at eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>,
 Brian Beck <exogen at gmail.com> wrote:

> After a bit of searching I haven't been able to find a definite resource 
> for Kerberos authentication from Python.  Any help would be appreciated.

The only thing I know out there -

ftp://www.python.org/pub/www.python.org/ftp/python/contrib-09-Dec-1999/Sy
stem/krb5module-0.1.tar.gz

Written by Fred Drake and Roger Masse for CNRI, it's not very
recent but that's probably the least of your problems.  It does
have some preprocessor conditionals as though they were building
it on Windows at some point.

>   Here's what I've found...
...
> [2] The best I could find in Zope appears to just get its result from 
> the UNIX/Linux krb5 command, which does all the heavy lifting.  This is 
> not available on Windows.

That krb5 command does not sound like anything I have ever seen.
It isn't "available" on UNIX either, it's just something that
you have to get and probably build (I guess - I've never heard of
external Kerberos authentication, sounds like a bad idea to me.)

> [3] http://pygss.sourceforge.net/
>      I can't really tell if this is what I'm looking for.  It does 
> provide a way to interface with MIT's krb5, but it must be obtained 
> separately and compiled...

Well, naturally.  I don't know this software, but by the name
evidently it's a GSSAPI interface.  Conventional wisdom has it
that applications should use GSSAPI for Kerberos 5 authentication.
It actually doesn't have complete, end-to-end coverage for the
problem area, so commonly you end up needing to call the
underlying krb5 library anyway for some miscellaneous functions,
and honestly it's a verbose, awkward mess to program to, but
you get a more reliable application out of it if you're doing
things like data encryption on top of the minimal authentication
function.  And I understand that at some level it may be compatible
with a protocol that Microsoft Windows' native Kerberos 5
implementation uses.

I don't know much about any special issues that you might be
facing on Microsoft Windows, but all this is fairly simple
on UNIX and I know MS made Kerberos5 integral to Windows
authentication, so what could go wrong?

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From bryanjugglercryptographer at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 21:24:03 2004
From: bryanjugglercryptographer at yahoo.com (bryanjugglercryptographer at yahoo.com)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 18:24:03 -0700
Subject: Close a socket externally
In-Reply-To: <BAm7d.262606$bp1.36553@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
References: <Y9l7d.262597$bp1.228320@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<1096673569.579558.114260@k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
	<BAm7d.262606$bp1.36553@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1096680243.955122.263530@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>

The method I like is to compute a deadline for all the action on
the socket, then compute a new timeout for each blocking
operation.  The following isn't tested, or even compiled, but it
shows the idea:

deadline = time.time() + hard_limit_on_the_time
while stuff_to_do:
timeout = deadline - time.time()
if timeout < 0:
break  # time limit expired
(readable, _, _) = select.select([mysock], [], [], timeout)
if ! readable:
break  # time limit expired
# at this point mysock has data available (barring weird
things)


-- 
--Bryan



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 24 04:26:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:26:28 +0200
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm4uqv.nmgjbj1vt0spjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0410231916.450f67d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5380.1098594135.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm5ojm.10239ef1m2hnrpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Stephen Waterbury <golux at comcast.net> wrote:

> Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> > ...  The functional version would be:
> > 
> > strings = lambda Xs, k: reduce(lambda r, i: [p + x for p in r for x
> > in Xs], range(k), [''])
> 
> Wow!  Grand prize for elegance.  :)

And almost for performance -- it's an order of magnitude faster than
other ones I've timed.  Of course, as usual, you can get another 10% or
so if you avoid reduce and lambda, implementing exactly the same
algorithm as:

def stringo(Xs, k):
    r = ['']
    for i in range(k):
        r = [p+x for p in r for x in Xs]
    return r

$ python -m timeit -s'import ov' 'ov.strings("abc",3)'
10000 loops, best of 3: 144 usec per loop
$ python -m timeit -s'import ov' 'ov.strings("abc",3)'
10000 loops, best of 3: 142 usec per loop

$ python -m timeit -s'import ov' 'ov.stringo("abc",3)'
10000 loops, best of 3: 126 usec per loop
$ python -m timeit -s'import ov' 'ov.stringo("abc",3)'
10000 loops, best of 3: 125 usec per loop


Alex


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 18:02:02 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 23:02:02 +0100
Subject: ClientCookie problem - Difference between 'post' on the local
	network and the internet
References: <4178F159.7060100@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <7o0jn01jn22kdmlpni3mh2oortrc66hpuv@4ax.com>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:39:05 +0200, Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:

>I am using ClientCookie for login on to servers and browsing them as 
>authenticated users.
>
>I kept getting "HTTP Error 400: Bad Request" errors when submitting my 
>forms. So I boiled it down to a simple example.
>
>When I try to use ClientCookie.urlopen() on my private network with ip 
>numbers like "http://localhost:8081/test_site/logged_in", it works fine.
>
>If I try to call the same site through the Internet, with a url like: 
>http://www.mxm.dk/test_site/logged_in I get the 400 message. But only 
>when using "post". 'get' works fine :-s
>

Are you using Version 1.0.0a ?
There is a bug (well actually a bug in urllib2 - but it amoutns to the
same thing) that is fixed in CVS. Either use CVS or go back to 0.4
whatever which is the latest stable version.

Regards,

Fuzzy

>On the Internet I go out through a gateway, so my external IP is 
>different than my internal.
>
>I assume that it causes an url mismatch somewhere. With my local ip 
>being set in some header by urlopener, and the server expecting the 
>remote ip.
>
>But I have no idea as to how I can avoid it? Any takers?
>
>
>#########################################
>
>import ClientCookie, urllib
>
>req = ClientCookie.Request
>urlopen = ClientCookie.urlopen
>
>def login(came_from, login_form):
>     data = {
>         'came_from' : came_from,
>         '__ac_name' : name,
>         '__ac_password' : password,
>         '__ac_persistent' : '1',
>         'submit' : 'Log ind',
>     }
>     encoded_data = urllib.urlencode(data)
>
>     request = req(login_form, encoded_data)
>     response = urlopen(request)
>     content = response.read()
>     return content
>
># This works
>came_from = 'http://localhost:8081/test_site/request_tester'
>login_form = "http://localhost:8081/test_site/logged_in"
>print login(came_from, login_form)
>
># This results in "HTTP Error 400: Bad Request"
>came_from = 'http://www.mxm.dk/test_site/request_tester'
>login_form = "http://www.mxm.dk/test_site/logged_in"
>print login(came_from, login_form)
>
>
>
>############################################
># traceback from the last call to login()
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "E:\zopes\test_site\PRODUCTS\MXMPRO~1\z.py", line 35, in ?
>     print login(came_from, login_form)
>   File "E:\zopes\test_site\PRODUCTS\MXMPRO~1\z.py", line 22, in login
>     response = urlopen(request)
>   File 
>"G:\uninstalled\Python\ClientCookie-1.0.0a\ClientCookie\_urllib2_support.py", 
>line 715, in urlopen
>     return _opener.open(url, data)
>   File 
>"G:\uninstalled\Python\ClientCookie-1.0.0a\ClientCookie\_Opener.py", 
>line 125, in open
>     response = meth(req, response)
>   File 
>"G:\uninstalled\Python\ClientCookie-1.0.0a\ClientCookie\_urllib2_support.py", 
>line 387, in http_response
>     response = self.parent.error(
>   File 
>"G:\uninstalled\Python\ClientCookie-1.0.0a\ClientCookie\_Opener.py", 
>line 189, in error
>     return apply(self._call_chain, args)
>   File "C:\pytyons\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 306, in _call_chain
>     result = func(*args)
>   File "C:\pytyons\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 412, in 
>http_error_default
>     raise HTTPError(req.get_full_url(), code, msg, hdrs, fp)
>urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 400: Bad Request



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct  7 06:36:37 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:36:37 +0200
Subject: correct way to detect container type
References: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<ck33gj$3ah$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4165178F.1080300@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ck367a$osv$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Robin Becker wrote:

> lots of good ideas, but I think this breaks in 2.1

Yes, I think it requires at least 2.2. Back to square one then...

Peter



From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Tue Oct 12 15:17:06 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:17:06 -0400
Subject: Options, ConfigParser, modules, and SQLObject connections
In-Reply-To: <78cd5819.0410120624.5b67bbbe@posting.google.com>
References: <78cd5819.0410120624.5b67bbbe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <P8mdneY_Y7kvsPHcRVn-tg@giganews.com>

Robin Munn wrote:

> I'm sure others have faced similar problems before. How have you
> managed?

What I do in a similar situation is to set an environment
variable. This environment variable points to
the .ini configuration file.

Then I put the configuration loading in the body of
the module. That way when it gets imported for the
first time it executes the instructions.

--- globalconf.py ---
# put whatever code you need here to
# fetch the environment variable and process the file
db_filename = 'database_name'

--- sqldefs.py ---
import globalconf
import sqlobject
__connection__ = sqlobject.SQLiteConnection(globalconf.db_filename)

Istvan.


From danperl at rogers.com  Fri Oct 29 16:11:18 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:11:18 -0400
Subject: Open Source License Question
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA@rogers.com>
	<6f402501.0410271123.5a7e68d9@posting.google.com>
	<N9GdnbEBX4-F1B3cRVn-rw@rogers.com> <2ue65gF28i9f7U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <WqOdnTc2YvdqPh_cRVn-2Q@rogers.com>


"Joachim Bowman" <usenet.0.lho at spamgourmet.com> wrote in message 
news:2ue65gF28i9f7U1 at uni-berlin.de...
> Hi,
>
> Dan Perl wrote:
>> "Michael Foord" <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message 
>> news:6f402501.0410271123.5a7e68d9 at posting.google.com...
>>>A lot of people use python as part of their job and are active
>>>participants in teh python community. A lot of what I write are
>>>library modules to do a particular job. Using the GPL means someone is
>>>unable to use your work in a business setting. i don't expect other
>>>people to sell products containing my work - but neither do I want to
>>>prevent them from being able to use it.
>>
>> Fair enough.  LGPL, X, or BSD should allow you to do that.
>
> So does the GNU GPL.  Freedom/Open Source and commercial use are two 
> orthogonal concepts.  The two don't interfere in any way.

I beg to differ.  Let's take a possible scenario.  Let's say that my company 
has a complex software product that sells for $1M a piece.  And let's also 
say that I need some encryption for the product.  I find an encryption 
library that is free and is GPL licensed.  What happens if I use it? 
Correct me if I'm wrong in any part (and I genuinely admit that I may be 
wrong).  I have to release my entire product under a GPL license and I have 
to publish the entire code (I assume that the use of the encryption library 
is not isolated to only one part of the product).  Would my company want to 
do something like that?  I don't think so.  Sure, we are still entitled to 
try to sell the product but who would pay $1M when with a little effort they 
can put the entire product together from the code and any support that we 
could sell is never going to be worth the money we are asking for?

Red Hat can make money from selling their Linux distribution, but apart from 
companies that have deeper pockets and for whom getting the support and 
warranties that Red Hat offers are worth a relatively small fee, how many 
small consumers buy the commercial distribution when they can just download 
the same thing for free?  No wonder that Red Hat also sells things like mugs 
and T-shirts.

So getting back to my scenario, leaving theory and "orthogonality" aside, 
practical reasons will stop many companies from using GPL licensed code in a 
commercial product.  I think that constitutes interference.

Dan

> You can have Free Software (under the GPL) that is used and distributed 
> commercially, Free Software that is used and distributed in a non 
> commercial way (Python), proprietary software that is used and distributed 
> commercially (think about MS Word), and proprietary software that is used 
> and distributed free of charge and without a commercial background 
> (sometimes called freeware).
>
> J 




From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Mon Oct  4 23:40:16 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:40:16 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <1001523104100420251887d96a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<1001523104100420251887d96a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <416217A0.5040101@cloudthunder.com>

Paul Bissex wrote:

>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:10:39 -0400, Richard Blackwood
><richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following
>>support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*
>>
>>1. Multi line comments
>>    
>>
>[items 2 through 45 mercifully omitted]
>
>
>Wow. Obsessive-compulsive trolling.
>
>  
>
How is that trolling?  I was just wondering if Python had the features I 
specified.  Your statement confuses me.  Anyhow, any help would be 
great, thanks.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Oct 23 07:36:54 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:36:54 +0200
Subject: Python C API Question.
References: <mVhed.5099$5i5.1298@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cldfom$6lt$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Adonis wrote:

> This is my first crack at using Python from a C level, and also a long
> time since I have even used C, so my wording might be off, when creating a
> new list utilizing the PyList_New(...) function, instead of creating a
> list of a fixed length, is there a way to create a variabled length
> instead?

AFAIK they are always variable length - they always support appending to
them. The argument is just about the initial capacity, so if you know that
beforehand, you can optimize allocation of list entries.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From connellybarnes at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 03:49:09 2004
From: connellybarnes at yahoo.com (C. Barnes)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 00:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Manipulate HTML documents via data structure
Message-ID: <20041001074909.32565.qmail@web14521.mail.yahoo.com>


Python provides HTML parsing through the
HTMLParser and htmllib modules.

For my application, I needed to search through
an HTML document in a nonlinear fashion and
dynamically change parts of the document.  The
most logical way to do this is to translate HTML
back and forth to a data structure.

I wrote a module called htmldata, available from:

http://oregonstate.edu/~barnesc/htmldata/

Example:

>>> from htmldata import dumps, loads
>>> o=loads('<img src=hi.gif alt="blah">foo</body>')
>>> o
[('img', {'src':'hi.gif', 'alt':'blah'}), 'foo',
('/body', {})]
>>> dumps(o)
'<img alt="blah" src="hi.gif">foo</body>'

Pros:
 * More powerful for HTML editing.
 * Easy to reproduce the original document (at least,
   a document that is HTML-equiv to the original).

Cons:
 * Less user friendly than HTMLParser module.

I tested it on several popular sites.  Feedback, bug
reports, etc appreciated.

 - Connelly Barnes



	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 


From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct  4 13:54:55 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:54:55 -0400
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <20041004101511.FECD.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <41616B9B.1080009@fastmail.fm>
	<20041004101511.FECD.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <41618E6F.5030403@fastmail.fm>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>>How hard/easy is it to extend the Python syntax?  Perhaps there are 
>>    
>>
>
>Check out the tokenizer module.
>
>
>  
>
Is this easy to use?  Are there good tutorials?

>>macro facilities for this?
>>    
>>
>
>Python has no macro facilities.
>
>
>  
>
Really?  I read that Python was just like Scheme in that it had macro 
facilities.

>>I'd like to add messages and message 
>>passing, for example.
>>    
>>
>
>Macros are not necessary for message passing.  There are at least a
>dozen message passing libraries for inter and intra-machine
>communications, including versions that work with DCOM, Corba, MPI, and
>I'm sure just about anything else you could want to do.
>
>Heck, writing message passing with TCP sockets is even quite easy, if
>you have experience with writing network protocols.
>
>If you are just wanting to pass messages in your program, and you are
>using threads, use the Queue module (in 2.4 it will be faster).
>
> - Josiah
>
>  
>
Great, thanks.


From rowen at cesmail.net  Wed Oct 27 13:27:07 2004
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:27:07 -0700
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
References: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<81a41dd.0410260035.60aee489@posting.google.com>
	<cllv09$kv9$1@news.Stanford.EDU>
Message-ID: <rowen-E1A6D6.10270727102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <cllv09$kv9$1 at news.Stanford.EDU>,
 "Patrick L. Nolan" <pln at cosmic.stanford.edu> wrote:

>Lad <export at hope.cz> wrote:
>> "Russell E. Owen" <rowen at cesmail.net> wrote in message 
>> news:<rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu>...
>>> I'm trying to launch an application from Python 2.3 on Windows. The 
>>> application is "ds9" (an image viewer), and is installed in C:\Program 
>>> Files\ds9\ds9
>>>...
>> I think the problem is in long name folder: Program Files. So, try
>
>> Progra~1 instead of Program Files
>
>An automatic way to accomplish this is
>
>import win32api
>shortpath = win32api.GetShortPathName(path)
>os.popen3(shortpath)
>
>Also, I have found by bitter experience that ds9 is unable to open any
>file whose path includes a space.  Put your data files somewhere else.

Thanks to everyone for their replies.

Lad and Patrick's suggestions both worked perfectly. (Simply trying to 
protect the path with an extra set of quotes, as suggested by one kind 
non-Windows-savvy soul, did not work)..

I also tested the bug mentioned by Patrick. I put a fits image file into 
a directory whose name contained a space and tried to open that file in 
ds9. it worked fine. I hope this means that the problem with spaces in 
names has been thoroughly fixed.

Tip for ds9 and xpa users (xpa is a communication protocol used by ds9):
I learned from a ds9 developer that a proper installation of ds9 and 
should have the xpa files in the same directory as ds9. This is NOT how 
the binary ds9 and xpa installers do it, but it is easy to fix after the 
installation. Unless this is done, ds9 cannot register itself with xpa, 
making communication needlessly messy.


One more question:
- I noticed that when I use os.popen3 to open ds9, i have to keep the 
returned reference to stdout around as long as ds9 itself is open or 
Python hangs. I can't close it. I can't lose the reference and allow it 
to be garbage-collected. Any suggestions for avoiding this? (At least it 
doesn't prevent Python from shutting down when requested.)

I had been using os.spawn... to launch ds9, but spawn is not supported 
on Windows, alas. I communicate with ds9 via xpa, so the pipes returned 
by popen3 are of no interest.

-- Russell


From adurdin at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 01:20:37 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:20:37 +1100
Subject: Intercept and Tag STDOUT values
In-Reply-To: <yR1bd.5306$YU4.4228@trnddc06>
References: <AG1bd.5304$YU4.1564@trnddc06> <yR1bd.5306$YU4.4228@trnddc06>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a04101222204b7f90f6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 04:06:54 GMT, Wes S.
<mornihatespamthdr at nospamverizon.net> wrote:
> 
> class cStdOutRedirect :
>     stdOld = sys.stdout

You don't need this line -- that would try and save stdout when the
class is created, not when an instance is created.

>     def __main__(self) :

I believe you mean __init__, not __main__ (which is not a meaningful
method name)

>         self.stdOld = sys.stdout
>         sys.stdout = self
>         return True

Any return value from __init__ is never used, so there's no point having one.

>     def write(self,str) :

It's probably not a good idea to name a variable "str", as that will
override the builtin str() function.

>         self.stdOld.write("REDIRECTED OUTPUT: " + str)
>         return True

The write() function is not expected to return a value, so again omit it.

>     def close(self) :
>         sys.stdout = self.stdOld
>         return True

Ditto regarding return value for close().

With these changes, here's an example:

>>> class cStdOutRedirect(object):
...     def __init__(self):
...             self.stdOld = sys.stdout
...             sys.stdout = self
...     def write(self, s):
...             self.stdOld.write("REDIRECTED OUTPUT: " + s)
...     def close(self):
...             sys.stdout = self.stdOld
...
>>> import sys
>>> f = cStdOutRedirect()
>>> print "Hello"
REDIRECTED OUTPUT: HelloREDIRECTED OUTPUT:
>>> f.close()
>>> print "Hello"
Hello

This shows a couple of pitfalls: first, you might not want to have
stdout redirected as soon as the class is instantiated. Secondly, the
tag is put on every write() call, not just at the start of lines.
Thirdly, this may not work nicely if you try to redirect more than
once. Finally, you might need to override another few methods for
better compatibility (e.g. flush()).
I would also suggest renaming "close" to "end_redirect" or something,
as calling
    f = cStdOutRedirect()
    sys.stdout.close()
comes across strangely.


From __NOSPAM at rogers.com__NOSPAM__  Mon Oct  4 09:07:31 2004
From: __NOSPAM at rogers.com__NOSPAM__ (Martin)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:07:31 -0400
Subject: Piecemeal script interpretation via C API
Message-ID: <H92dnZzyAvuO1vzcRVn-gw@rogers.com>

It is possible to interpret a script in chunks using C API functins? In 
other words, once you have called Py_CompileString and you have a 
PyObject for the compiled script (?), can you evaluate the object piece 
meal so that your program can take care of other important updates, etc?

Thanks

Martin


From agriff at tin.it  Thu Oct  7 01:59:35 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 05:59:35 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aJt8d.3299$M05.285@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6qcq.kcu4qi1qojaksN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<_sB8d.3545$M05.1351@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl7k7p.1a37gv1o1klclN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<JGW8d.7631$M05.6903@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl97ps.endfhf1dfa6l0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <52m9m0d58mkslq7t3sg92aihchlpat714h@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:40:11 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
wrote:

>Yeah, sigh, ditto here, in theory -- then I ended up as the software
>consultant for 200+ good programmers new to C++ and saw first-hand what
>nightmare it was sometimes to make stuff const-correct and how little in
>fact it bought you, so I got rather disillusioned about it.

This is interesting; I've come to the conclusion that
logical const-correctness is not worth in programming
as the cost it requires is higher than the payoff it
can bring back; but I was actually stared at like a
martian in c.l.c++.m when I said this.
I thought it was just because I'm used to work only as
a team of one and probably things were different if
working on big teams.

Now, if I understand you correctly in the "disillusioned"
part, looks like you found that the payoff is not worth
even in bigger teams...

Or may be you found just that adding const-correctness
*later* is a suicide ? That is quite acknowledged, my
opinion is instead that it's not even worth to put it
in from the beginning.

Unfortunately it's something you just can't refuse to
do in C++ because const correctness is tied to other
parts of the language and was used to try to patch
problems in other philosophically unrelated areas (I'm
talking about temporaries and implicit conversions).

Andrea


From http  Thu Oct  7 19:28:31 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 16:28:31 -0700
Subject: Python script that generates blob files
References: <1097189229.883950.253450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xr7oa3y74.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Sean  Carey" <sean.carey at gmail.com> writes:
> I am wondering if anyone knows of a python script or any other script
> that will generate random files with random sizes that I can specify.

Python 2.4 should have an os.urandom function that gives you a random
character string of a size you specify.  I'm not sure if that's what
you're asking.


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 16:03:09 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:03:09 -0400
Subject: UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa0 in
	position 10: ordinal not in range(128)
In-Reply-To: <20041008194249.GB22344@unpythonic.net>
References: <95c29a5e.0410071540.c27186a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4539.1097193254.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<95c29a5e.0410081125.18907895@posting.google.com>
	<20041008194249.GB22344@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0410081303209996b8@mail.gmail.com>

[Robin Siebler]
>>> It's just a file path.  It doesn't *have* any non-ASCII chars in it to
>>> begin with!
 
[Jeff Epler]
>> Well, then, be sure to follow up when you find the real cause, because I
>> don't know of another reason that isn't along the lines I mentioned.

Robin, your original report disagrees with your belief:

>    if(ap == pp):
>   UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa0 in position 10: ordinal
>   not in range(128)

0xa0 is not an ASCII character.  We can't tell from the traceback
which of ap and pp is Unicode, and which isn't, but presumably your
knowledge of your app will tell you.

That something is "a file path" doesn't mean anything -- you're
running on Windows, and Windows doesn't restrict paths to containing
ASCII characters.

>>> f = open('\xa0\xa0.txt', 'w')
>>> f.name
'\xa0\xa0.txt'
>>> f.close()
>>> import os
>>> for fn in os.listdir('.'):
...     if fn.endswith('.txt'):
...         print fn
b.txt
bb.txt
BUILDno.txt
NormalizationTest-3.2.0.txt
readme.txt
??.txt

The last line may not show up correctly for you, since it contains
non-ASCII characters.  When I sent it, it looked like

aa.txt

but with diacritcal marks "on top of" the a's.


From Moiz.Golawala at ge.com  Wed Oct 27 13:07:57 2004
From: Moiz.Golawala at ge.com (Golawala, Moiz M (GE Infrastructure))
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:07:57 -0400
Subject: mod_python newbie question.
Message-ID: <CE90A4CF2E5E9C4890AE5D9D8A5EFAE30118979B@CINMLVEM10.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Hi All, 

I am very new to mod_python (I have developed application with python but am new to web development in general). I have read most of the documentation and I have a couple of questions. I am planning to use mod_python along with Cheetah to build an internal website for my company. So far I have include some basic handlers in apache and can view a hello world script on my browser. Now when I try to do something a little more complicated I am lost.

 I have a couple of text fields that I want the user to fill out and then hit the submit button. I can get that html page up but I don't understand the mechanism where once a user hits the submit button, how does he/she get to the next page on the site. 

In the documentation I don't see any multi page working examples. Can some one point me to some resource that has working mult-page html (PSP or Cheetah based) examples with the necessary Directory tags in the httpd.conf file so I can better understand what is going on. 

Here is an some code to explain what I am trying to do and what my confusion is:

In my httpd.conf file:
<Directory /var/www/html/>
	PythonHandler main
	PythonDebug on
</Directory>

in my main.py file:

from cheetah.Template import Template
from mod_python import apache

def handler(req):
	t = Template(file,"/var/www/html/main.tmpl")
	textlen = len(str(t))
	req.set_content(t)
	req.set_content_length(textlen)
	apache.OK	

in my main.tmpl file:

<html>
<head></head>
<body>
	<form action="valid.py">
	<input type="text" size="20" name="input1">
	<input type="text" size="20" name="input2">
	<input type="submit" name="submit" value="submit">
	</form
</body>
</html>

My problem is that the browser renders the page that is defined in the main.tmpl file. But once I enter the text and click submit. I want the browser to display the page that is defined the template used in valid.py (as the form tag shows) but some how I get the main.py page back. The reason this is happening is that once I click the submit button, I get back to the server and the handler is invoked and main.py is called. I can never go to another page. 

I am sure I am doing something wrong. Please can someone help me out.. Or direct me to some place that show an example of how this mechanism works correctly.

Again, any help is appreciated. 
Thanks 
Moiz Golawala


Moiz Golawala
GE Infrastructure, Security
Software Engineer
Enterprise Solutions

T 561 994 5972
F 561 994 6572
E moiz.golawala at ge.com 
www.gesecurity.com

791 Park of Commerce Blvd., Suite 100
Boca Raton, FL, 33487, U.S.A.
GE Security, Inc.



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct 14 04:11:37 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:11:37 +0200
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4834.1097669737.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cklcb3$k57$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

> if?not?isinstance(value,?self.mytype):
>     #?if?it's?a?string,?tries?to?convert?to?the?correct
>     #?target?type?(this?is?needed?because?most?things?read
>     #?from?files?will?be?strings?anyway)
>     if?isinstance(value,?StringType):
>         value?=?self.mytype(value)

I haven't checked if this is relevant in the context, but implicit
conversion from string is usually a bad thing. E. g.:

>>> bool("False"), bool("0")
(True, True)

Peter



From theller at python.net  Fri Oct 29 14:38:54 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:38:54 +0200
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>
	<1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<du7d5z1fx08.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<just-D2DC45.16465829102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.5673.1099074514.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mzy58j41.fsf@python.net>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:

> Just wrote:
>>>One of the perceived strengths of Python is the fact that it
>>>integrates well with the platforms it is running on, so it's not an
>>>insulated box like Java.
>> Another one of Pythons perceived strengths is that if you get a
>> segfault, it's a bug in Python. With ctypes that will no longer be
>> as clear.
>
> It's always been the case that C extensions can cause segfaults.  This
> is just a tool for incorporating C extensions, without writing any
> extra C.  It even says "c" right in the name, which should cause a
> certain amount of (justified) fear for anyone who knows what that
> means ;)
>
> Having ctypes in the stdlib would be cool, because it would mean that
> many C library extension could be installed with no compilation step,
> since ctypes would already be compiled as part of the default
> install. Assuming the C library was already installed, but typically C
> libraries get packaged for distribution long before the associated
> Python extension is packaged.

Of course I think that ctypes in the standard lib would be great, but I
won't try to push this myself anymore.  I tried several times in the
past, and have failed miserably (at least that's how I feel).

Thomas


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sat Oct  2 14:44:24 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:44:24 +0100
Subject: limitations of current logging package
In-Reply-To: <2e37dc1.0410020754.739f8744@posting.google.com>
References: <2e37dc1.0409230442.7e74543d@posting.google.com>
	<4edc17eb.0409232031.66ad3d4e@posting.google.com>
	<2e37dc1.0409260220.6ad5cb6c@posting.google.com>
	<JqSdnXgsbLTkosXcRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<2e37dc1.0410020754.739f8744@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cjmsug$m3o$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Vinay Sajip wrote:
> The following documentation, which is in  CVS for Python and will be
> part of the next release, does give information for simple usage:
> 
> http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/minimal-example.html

+1! I think that makes the example much less intimidating.

I don't understand why it is in the middle of the table of contents 
instead of at the beginning or end. And personally I would take some of 
the stuff off the module root page and put it on a subpage so the table 
of contents can be seen immediately... but that is just me. <wink>

Thanks for this great module!
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Oct 11 08:56:31 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:56:31 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <MNCdnR9olpAhWvTcRVn-pg@comcast.com>
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
	<MNCdnR9olpAhWvTcRVn-pg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <JcmdnQnFT5NhH_fcRVn-tg@giganews.com>

Doug Holton wrote:


> Like I said in the first sentence of my earlier message:
> "I thought I'd share it here since there has been so much interest for 
> similar projects like IronPython."

What I referred to was that the reason IronPython got so much
interest in this group is not because it is a *python-like*
language on the CLI but because it aims to be *python* on
the CLI. Big difference IMO.

If you'd make your language a valid python implementation, that could
also access .NET components (a la python) it would
instantly become a bazillion times more popular and talked about.

A "hey, it looks like python but it is not really python"
approach has little chance of capturing a python programmer's
imagination. It just muddies the water and sows confusion among
potential adopters.

this is just an opinion, and I've been wrong many times before...

Istvan.


From psparago at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 13:00:14 2004
From: psparago at yahoo.com (Peter Sparago)
Date: 17 Oct 2004 10:00:14 -0700
Subject: win32com extension help
Message-ID: <584da15e.0410170900.3f090aa4@posting.google.com>

(Sorry in advance for the long post.)

Hi,

I'm having a great deal of difficulty buiding a Python COM extension.
I am using the MSHTML ActiveX control in my application but I need to
interact with and implement some Custom COM interfaces. All is well
with the basic operation of the control using Python.

Basically, I want to take over the right-click (context) menu from
MSHTML. To do this (to the best of my knowledge), you must request the
ICustomDoc interface from the control and set up your own
implementation of the IDocHostUIHandler interface. In Python COM
extension lingo, I need an ICustomDoc interface and an
IDocHOstUIHandler gateway.

First off, any link to HOW-TO documentation on this subject would be
greatly appreciated.

I wanted to start with something very simple, so I am trying to
implement an extension that understands only the ICustomDoc interface.
I ran makegw and hand-edited the resulting interfaces to get my .PYD
to compile and link (and even load!).

I pretty much understand the actual implementation of the COM support
generated by makegw, but I'm very hazy on the extension "wiring"
necessary to publish this COM support to Python. (i.e. the use of
PyMethodDef and PyCom_InterfaceSupportInfo etc.)

So, I thought I'd look for a working example and do a knock-off. I'm
running Python 2.3 and I've downloaded and built pywin32-203. I have
previously worked in great detail with the IFilter interface, so I
chose that win32comext project to use as a model. The problem is, when
I run the demo python code (called filterDemo.py) to exercise the
IFilter support, it fails with the following error:

C:\Joey\pywin32-203\com\win32comext\ifilter\demo>filterDemo.py
test.txt
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Joey\pywin32-203\com\win32comext\ifilter\demo\filterDemo.py",
line 4,
 in ?
    from win32com.ifilter import ifilter
ImportError: cannot import name ifilter

This is the same error I'm getting with my own implementation .PYD.

(BTW: Yes, I have moved ifilter.pyd into the
C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32com directory.)

Can ANYONE help? Please?


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sat Oct 16 06:17:35 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:17:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>
	<416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<mailman.4998.1097833203.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekjz3lly.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp6fb$gvi$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<du7sm8f24h4.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp90u$s9l$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<mailman.5023.1097870716.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckplef$99o$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<ckqmkc$n7s$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <ckqsfv$q69$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

pitkali <pitkali at NOSPAMinteria.pl> pisze:

>>>> Windows versions are named, royalty-free, commercial licenses.
>>>> [... long, tortuous explanation ...] Hallo, any lawyers around
>>>> here?
>>> 
>>> As he said, "way too messy"!  ;)
>> 
>> I am not sure if Detlev can pose such exceptions... Well,
>> Qt-and-around is not an easy shoot. ;)
> 
> He hold the copyright (with Phil Thompson). He is the licensor. He can
> do all he wants.

Don't think it's possible to claim "software is GPL but you cann't
distribute it". Either don't pose such restriction or use another
license.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 27 15:20:44 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:20:44 +0200
Subject: module signal
In-Reply-To: <3e96ebd7.0410270509.10e4c8b2@posting.google.com>
References: <3e96ebd7.0410260054.197dd951@posting.google.com>
	<417EA12C.6060803@hotmail.com>
	<3e96ebd7.0410270509.10e4c8b2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417fd8ee@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

> I don't see how to do it with a Timer object only. Could you rewrite
> the regexp example with a Timer object such that it works?
Oh yes, I'm wrong. I confused this module with something else, sorry.


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 17 16:34:45 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:34:45 GMT
Subject: Some notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glm9eg.1yldhpvtdfww2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416fee05$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<1glr5vz.s10y5ympbao9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4172c795.65285525@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:34:30 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
[...]
>
>The iterator over arguments, which I propose, could not be implemented
>in Python today (Python today has no way to collect yet-unevaluated
>arguments).  I do believe that the C interpreter would need few changes
>to implement it (what syntax to use to signal it being the one
>contentious part), and even fewer to accept a .skip method on generators
>and use it to set a local variable _must_skip_next_yield in the
>generator's frame (not particularly useful, I believe -- not all
>iterators would have to be skippable, and, unless strong use cases
>emerge, normal generators might well be deemed nonskippable ones).
>
If py3k eliminated current back-ticks in favor of a new use, namely

    `expr

being short spelling of 

    lambda:expr

(Actually, I think 'expr should not just be lambda:expr but capture snapshot
references to the variables in the expr. I.e., if expr was 2*a.x-3 you'd have
lambda a=a:2*a.x-3 -- while making sure that a etc are just bare name references,
but then I couldn't just type in the simplified examples below, which I don't
want to retype ;-)

then you could write stuff like

 >>> def ifelse(c, t, f):
 ...     if c(): return t()
 ...     else: return f()
 ...

and call that using

    ifelse(`condition, `value_if_true, `value_if_false)

except for now we have to use the long spelling of lambda
(and should use longer yet spelling ;-) :

 >>> def show(x): print 'evaluated %r'%(x,); return x
 ...
 >>> c = lambda: show(True)
 >>> t = lambda: show('true value')
 >>> f = lambda: show('false value')
 >>> ifelse(c, t, f)
 evaluated True
 evaluated 'true value'
 'true value'
 >>> ifelse(lambda:show(0), t, f)
 evaluated 0
 evaluated 'false value'
 'false value'

of course, if you are modifying python, you could make ifelse a special form,
along with cond, and have the back-ticks implied instead of explicit.

if you think of cond as a flat series of (condition, value_expr) pairs,
(was that the intent?)

 >>> def cond(*cvp):
 ...     cvp = iter(cvp)
 ...     for c in cvp:
 ...         if c(): return cvp.next()()
 ...         cvp.next()
 ...     return False
 ...
 >>> true = lambda:show(True)
 >>> false = lambda:show(False)
 >>>
 >>> cond(false, f, false, t, true, t, false, f)
 evaluated False
 evaluated False
 evaluated True
 evaluated 'true value'
 'true value'
 >>> cond(false, f, false, t, false, t, false, f)
 evaluated False
 evaluated False
 evaluated False
 evaluated False
 False
 >>> cond(false, f,  true, t, false, t, false, f)
 evaluated False
 evaluated True
 evaluated 'true value'
 'true value'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From wrightca at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 17 03:14:13 2004
From: wrightca at hotmail.com (Chris Wright)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:14:13 GMT
Subject: How to get user input with time limit?
In-Reply-To: <6bq3n09a3dlbnhbhpt1nrt1ud7l9g4b9t7@4ax.com>
References: <6bq3n09a3dlbnhbhpt1nrt1ud7l9g4b9t7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9Zocd.29080$5O5.17757@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

User wrote:
> Anyone know of a function like raw_input(), but with a built-in or
> user-specified time limit?  Ideally, it would return an empty string
> ('') and resume processing if the user didn't enter something within
> ~10 seconds.

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/307871
might help

Chris Wright


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Wed Oct 20 08:39:45 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:39:45 GMT
Subject: Help needed: cryptic perl regular expression in python syntax,
	Ugly solution
References: <bD7dd.1707$i81.1401@read3.inet.fi><slrncna2rg.e49.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be><41756F67.1060307@wlanmail.com>
	<mailman.5207.1098253340.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l0tdd.29773$rY1.2801@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Steven Bethard" <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.5207.1098253340.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Could you do something like:
>
> >>> line = '   s^\\?AAA\\?01^BBB^g; #Comment '
> >>> expr = r'(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\\?%s)\3(.*?)\3(.*)'
> >>> matcher = re.compile(expr % re.escape("AAA\?01"))
> >>> matcher.findall(line)
> [('   ', 's', '^', '\\?AAA\\?01', 'BBB', 'g; #Comment ')]
>
> Basically, I still use the r'' string so that I don't have to write so
many
> backslashes, but then I use a %s to insert the "AAA\?01" into the middle
of
> the expression.  Looks at least a little cleaner to me.
>
> Steve
>

Here's a more verbose version of Steve Bethard's suggestion.  By building
up the regexp from individual parts, it is possible to give each part some
semi-meaningful name, or to attach comments to individual pieces.  It also
makes it easier to maintain later.  What if you had to support an additional
command besides s and tr, like 'rep'?  Just change replaceCmd to read
replaceCmd = r'(s|tr|rep)'.  What if you needed to support leading tabs
in addition to leading spaces?  Change leadingWhite as needed.  For
that matter, just giving the finished regexp the name 'replaceCmdExpr'
gives the reader more of a clue as to what the regexp's purpose is,
as the original code did with extra comments.

I find nearly *all* regexp's to be cryptic, and when I need them, I
usually assemble them in some fashion such as this.  David Mertz
proposes a similar style in his very good book, "Text Processing
in Python."

(Some quibble with the practice of aligning '=' signs, but I find it to be a
helpful guide to the eye when declaring a set of related strings such as
these, assuming of course that one edits using a fixed space font.)

So why does the key get prepended with the backslashes and
question marks?

-- Paul
(I'll bet you thought I'd post a pyparsing version. :)  Well, in a
certain way, I did.)


import re

line = '   s^\\?AAA\\?01^BBB^g; #Comment '

r1 = r'(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\\?\\??'
key = "AAA\?01"
r2 = r'\\??)\3(.*?)\3(.*)'
r = r1 + re.escape(key) + r2
print re.compile(r).findall(line)

# desired regexp, from Steve Bethard's post
#  r'(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\\?%s)\3(.*?)\3(.*)'

# build up regexp by parts
key           = r'AAA\?01'
leadingWhite  = r'(^\s*)'
replaceCmd    = r'(s|tr)'
sepChar       = r'(.)'
# prepend \'s and ?'s, only the OP knows why...
findString    = r'(\\\?\\??%s)' % re.escape(key)
# sepCharRef references the char read by sepChar,
# to support separators other than '^'
sepCharRef    = r'\3'
replString    = r'(.*?)'
restOfLine    = r'(.*)'
replaceCmdExpr = leadingWhite + replaceCmd + \
         sepChar + findString + sepCharRef + \
         replString + sepCharRef + restOfLine

matcher = re.compile( replaceCmdExpr )
print matcher.findall(line)





From greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com  Wed Oct 13 16:48:09 2004
From: greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:48:09 -0500
Subject: Working with Forms in MS Word
Message-ID: <029e01c4b165$f36f2fe0$054b12ac@D18SYX41>

Greetings-

I have been asked if I can populate existing Forms in a Microsoft Word
Document.  I have the book Python Programming on Win 32 (Hammond/Robinson)
which addresses Microsoft products, but it does not address forms.  Has
anyone attempted this?  And if so, would you pass along your knowledge?

Thanks!,
--greg

Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.



From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Fri Oct  1 03:02:33 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 07:02:33 GMT
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 02:34:33 -0400, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Jan Dries wrote:
>
>> Bengt Richter wrote:
>> [... ]
>> 
>>>I almost posted a similar comment ;-) OTOH ...
>>>How many relevant points do you need to start a debate?
>
> Well, terrific. Now I get to talk about one of my pet peeves. A friend 
> just gave me a bumper sticker which, as a true (but hopefully liberal) 
> pedant I had real trouble with. It reads "Some village in Texas is 
> missing their idiot", and the reason for my perplexity was, while I feel 
> the sentiment it expresses is admirable (though perhaps mistaken: I only 
> wish George W Bush *were* as stupid as he manages to appear), I have to 
> take issue with the grammar used to express it.
>
> This particular pickle is a disagreement of number: since there is only 
> one village, the correct slogan should be "... is missing its idiot". If 
> you thought it was "... it's idiot" then take two demerits and refrain 
> from posting on c.l.py for 48 hours.

Their isn't necessarily plural so that isn't a problem. Since arguing
grammar isn't something I can do successfully, I'll instead resort
to an appeal to authority and say that one of the authors of 
"The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language" agrees with me:

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000172.html

-- 
Sam Holden


From gdamjan at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 04:17:32 2004
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (Damjan)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:17:32 +0200
Subject: ReportLab newbie
References: <2uac8bF2802bfU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<gqv0o0h6h0b8gcf6ba2sl965evrnravagq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2ubo8sF2999dfU1@uni-berlin.de>

>>from reportlab.pdfbase import pdfmetrics
>>from reportlab.pdfbase.ttfonts import TTFont
>>fontname = 'Arial-Bold'
>>my_TTF = '/opt/Fonts/arial.ttf'
>>font = TTFont(fontname, my_TTF)
>>pdfmetrics.registerFont(font)
> 
> Do you realize that arial.ttf is normal Arial, and not bold?  Arial bold
> lives in arialbd.ttf.

Ahh, stupid copy/paste... 
the exception was raised when fontname = "Arial" ...
the above example doesn't raise an exception, and it was experiment.

> Reportlab automatically registers the Arial family.??You?shouldn't?need?to
> register it yourself.

it seems that I can't register "Arial" as fontname since Reportlab does it
automatically... in the end, fontname = 'MyArial' did fine.





-- 
damjan


From 00hello00 at hellokitty.com  Fri Oct 22 22:40:41 2004
From: 00hello00 at hellokitty.com (marie)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 19:40:41 -0700
Subject: How to use date object
Message-ID: <91c5be0a.0410221840.1a5d4cc@posting.google.com>

I am a newbie in python.  And I would like to know how to create and
use the methods in date.  Can someone please show me some code about
it.  Thanks.


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Thu Oct  7 00:07:00 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:07:00 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <4164a43a.3914128499@news.oz.net>
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.4415.1097051270.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4164a43a.3914128499@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <4164C0E4.9000107@cloudthunder.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

>On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 09:29:07 +0100, Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>[Richard]
>>    
>>
>>>I could care less honestly.
>>>      
>>>
>>[Grant]
>>    
>>
>>>I've always been curious about that phrase.  It seems to imply
>>>that you _do_ care, since it would be possible for you to care
>>>less than you do.  Shouldn't the expression be "I couldn't care
>>>less"?
>>>      
>>>
>>In the UK we say "I couldn't care less".
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Perhaps Richard was proposing the notion that he could care differently.
>(i.e., less honestly ;-)
>(Otherwise, IMO, there should have been a comma after his "less.")
>
>  
>
>>One theory is that in the US it has become the sarcastic opposite of
>>itself, as in "tell me about it" or "I should be so lucky".
>>
>>Another theory is that it's been mangled through overuse - the
>>individual syllables ceased to matter a long time ago, and the "n't" was
>>lost because of sloppy speech.
>>
>>As revealed by PSU Research Paper "UU788", the *real* reason is a side
>>effect of the nanovirus encroaching into non-whitespace, as first
>>proposed by "UU355" and then earlier proven (twice, as it turned out) by
>>"UU6 9".  The only defence is t*^$Z:%Z* NO CARRIER
>>
>>    
>>
>My linguistic feature-clustering/distribution detector signals significant
>probability of non-English-first-language when scanning Richard's prose.
>Possible origin: planet U^g%%
>
>Regards,
>Bengt Richter
>  
>
Trying to figure out which language was my first is like trying to bake 
a vegan chicken dish--- there are only so many vegans so I doubt you 
will be able to find a recipe that will serve you right. 


From dubal at khimjiramdas.com  Sat Oct  2 07:33:11 2004
From: dubal at khimjiramdas.com (J Dubal)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 04:33:11 -0700
Subject: help: pypgsql: this code works in Fedora core 1, Not in FC2
References: <c345ff6f.0409252341.65335c89@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4107.1096498925.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c345ff6f.0410020333.14d8ce69@posting.google.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.4107.1096498925.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Sun, 2004-09-26 at 00:41 -0700, J Dubal wrote:
> > Hello good people,
> > 
> > Following works in FC1 (python-2.2.3-7, postgresql-7.3.4-11,
> > kernel-2.4.22-1.2194.nptl, pyPgSQL-2.4)
> > 
> > from pyPgSQL   import PgSQL
> > conn  = PgSQL.connect('localhost',database='rop')
> > loccur  = conn.cursor()
> > loccur.execute("DECLARE itemcursor CURSOR FOR \
> >               SELECT * FROM locmf")
> > loccur.execute("FETCH ALL FROM itemcursor")
> > rec=loccur.fetchall()
> > print rec
> > 
> > However, following errors are produced in FC2 (python-2.3.3-6,
> > postgresql-7.4.2-1, kernel-2.6.8-1.521, pyPgSQL-2.4):
> > 
> > /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/pyPgSQL/PgSQL.py:2644: FutureWarning:
> > %u/%o/%x/%X of negative int will return a signed string in Python 2.4
> > and up
> >   name = "PgSQL_%08X" % id(self)
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "tt1.py", line 5, in ?
> >     loccur.execute("DECLARE itemcursor CURSOR FOR \
> >   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/pyPgSQL/PgSQL.py", line 3091,
> > in execute
> >     self.res = self.conn.conn.query('FETCH 1 FROM "%s"' % self.name)
> > libpq.OperationalError: ERROR:  cursor "PgSQL_F6F9906C" does not exist
> > 
> > Out of this, the first error is produced by conn.cursor() statement.
> > 
> > We have to use the "declare cursor" statement because we have to use
> > "fetch prior" statement later in the program. Is there a better way of
> > achiving this?
> > 
> > Something seems to have changed either python or in postgresql that is
> > causing this error. Can someone provide a solution/workaround?
> 
> Don't know if anything changed between the versions of the software you
> are using, but see
> 
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/sql-declare.html
> 
> particularly the section on "WITH HOLD/WITHOUT HOLD" and the first
> paragraph in "Notes".  I'm guessing that perhaps you aren't starting a
> new transaction before declaring the cursor and that perhaps pyPgSQL is
> autocommitting the DECLARE statement which would result in your declared
> cursor going out of scope.  Try adding WITH HOLD or put your stuff
> inside of "BEGIN/COMMIT" statements.
> 
> Regards,
> Cliff
> 
> > Thanks in advance.
> > J Dubal.

Many thanks for your response. We tried a few things and found that
although the above code does not work on FC2, it works if we change
this statement:
   conn  = PgSQL.connect('localhost',database='rop')
to this:
   conn  = PgSQL.connect('192.168.1.5',database='rop')
192.168.1.5 happens to be another host running redhat 8.0 and
postgresql-server-7.3.4-1PGDG. It appears that the older (7.3.4)
engine was allowing the above syntax but the newer (7.4.2) is not
allowing.

Then we tried conn.conn.toggleShowQuery. This shows what sql
statements are executed. Based on its output we worked out the
following solution. Relace these lines:
loccur.execute("DECLARE itemcursor CURSOR FOR \
               SELECT * FROM locmf")
loccur.execute("FETCH ALL FROM itemcursor")
by these lines:
loccur.execute("SELECT * FROM locmf")
curname=loccur.name
loccur.execute('FETCH ALL FROM "%s"' %curname)

Then everything works as expected. Even with the old engine.
Thanks and regards.
J Dubal.


From HansWL at msn.com  Wed Oct  6 19:15:05 2004
From: HansWL at msn.com (HansWL)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 16:15:05 -0700
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>	<cjj9sd$hg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>	<mailman.4177.1096637180.5135.python-list@python.org>	<691232ce.0410030304.2f84c04b@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4236.1096861162.5135.python-list@python.org>	<691232ce.0410040930.2ed080d9@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4263.1096914230.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <691232ce.0410061515.36ee0f23@posting.google.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote 
> It would be interesting to know where this performance hit is coming
> from.  What happens if you set backend : TkAgg and interactive : True
> in your rc file, and then fire up a standard python shell
> 
> >>> from matplotlib.matlab import *
> >>> t = arange(0.01, 2.0, 0.01)
> >>> s = sin(2*pi*t)
> >>> figure(1)
> >>> plot(t,s)
> 
> In interactive mode, all the plotting commands are acted upon when
> they are issued, which should enable you to debug which of these
> commands, if any, causes the long delay.

Finally got sometime to try again. Seems most time was spent importing
(30 seconds). So in interactive mode, I imported once, then execfiled
your examples with import commented out. Now the figures came on
within seconds.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 26 16:17:40 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:17:40 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <clm68p$6r4$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<clm68p$6r4$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <V_Wdnfyh54h-LePcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Rocco Moretti wrote:
> (I'm surprised no one has mentioned unit testing yet.)

The topic (without the word "unit" in it, mind you) was raised
fifteen minutes after kartik first posted.  Istvan and Steve
have both mentioned it as well.

-Peter


From stewart.midwinter at gmail.com  Sat Oct  9 12:07:14 2004
From: stewart.midwinter at gmail.com (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: 9 Oct 2004 09:07:14 -0700
Subject: xml file structure for use with ElementTree?
References: <d4c0d480.0410082230.29766fac@posting.google.com>
	<oPM9d.172$Bw1.90@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <d4c0d480.0410090807.2a3ea1a2@posting.google.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote 
> Legal XML would look like
>   <person name="joe" sex="male" age="49"></person>

sigh... after a good night's sleep I discovered that myself this
morning.  It's obvious, of course.

> for person in tree.findall("person"):
>    if person.attrib["name"] == "joe":
>      tree.remove(person)
>      break
> else:
>    raise AssertionError("Where's joe?")

That's the ticket!  Unfortunately at the moment when I run this code I
get the following error:'
ElementTree instance has no attribute 'remove'
but I'll try to work through that.

> Given what you've shown, you need a reference to XML
> and not ElementTree.  The latter assumes you understand
> the former.  I don't have one handy.

that's a polite way of saying I'm clueless about XML, which is true! 
The main appeal of ElementTree was so I could avoid having to learn a
whole lot about XML in order to parse a simple file, but I am coming
to the conclusion that ElementTree is only simple if you already have
an understanding about XML.

thanks again,
S


From sw at wordtech-software.com  Fri Oct 22 09:59:10 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:59:10 -0400
Subject: IDLE--what are your experiences with it?
Message-ID: <Pm8ed.3143$Ag.3109@fe37.usenetserver.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'm looking for other peoples' viewpoints about their experiences with
IDLE as an editor--what are its good points? What are its limitations?
Any advice/insight is appreciated.

- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBeRItJmdQs+6YVcoRAlMfAJ9HCm/JWKZF4SpYBrivPHM1EO3slgCdGrJF
wgbnOgkYH0ywOlF0dFy9rUU=
=DUrq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From listserver at tdw.net  Sun Oct 10 19:26:52 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 00:26:52 +0100
Subject: Python email
References: <slrncmf2hc.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<41696005.1080902@mail.ru>
Message-ID: <000a01c4af20$9fe29f20$ccbefea9@twilliams>


"LutherRevisited" <lutherrevisited at aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041010135948.07384.00002435 at mb-m29.aol.com...
> I'm attempting to write an email client, and I've run into a snag.  I've
seen
> several docs on email, but they're not dumbed down enough for me.
Basically
> I'm downloading my messages like this:
> M = poplib.POP3('pop.mail.yahoo.com')
>         M.user('username')
>         M.pass_('password')
>         inMail = str(M.retr(i))
> and I get the message just fine, but I want to pull out of all that just
the
> html part.  How can I do this.

as a pointer using your inMail string  (untested,  and you should read the
docs for the email module to find the functions that will really suit your
requirements)

import email

emailobj  = email.message_from_string(inMail)

# or

emailobj  = email.message_from_string( str(M.retr(i)) )

if not emailobj.is_multipart():
      # return/break/pass etc
e_payload = emailobj.get_payload()

#then something like

for x in range(len(e_payload)):
     e_name = e_payload[x].get_filename()
#or
     e_type = e_payload[x].get_content_type()


# I doubt the last two functions will do what you need,  but there will be
functions in the email module that you can use in their place



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 11:56:18 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 08:56:18 -0700
Subject: HTTP Headers to make a download
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410120756.63276342@posting.google.com>

I'm creating a CGI that offers files for download. After googling I
though I had the right headers to send to force a download - but it
sends the data to the browser instead of opening the download 'save
file' dialog. Can anyone see what I'm doing wrong/suggest an
alternative ?

responseline = '''Content-Type: application/octet-stream
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=%s
Content-Length: %s
'''

print responseline % (filename, len(filedata))
print filedata


TIA

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct  5 03:51:17 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:51:17 +0200
Subject: Miscellaneous personal prejudices (was: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL!
	- weekly Python news and links (Oct 4))
References: <cjsh6t$m6u$1@lairds.us> <36i932-lr5.ln1@lairds.us>
	<1tudnWqDWMKcpf_cRVn-qg@rogers.com>
	<du7y8il4ntg.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <cjtjpc$7up$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Ville Vainio wrote:

>>>>>> "Dan" == Dan Perl <danperl at rogers.com> writes:
> 
>     Dan> "What do I have to say to get into the QOTW?"
> 
> Change your last name?

Or his first name? Damn Perl...

Peter




From exogen at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 15:19:32 2004
From: exogen at gmail.com (Brian Beck)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:19:32 -0400
Subject: Comparing WSDL & SOAP libraries...
In-Reply-To: <86vfdqpcjl.fsf@stronzo.brainbot.com>
References: <cjqq2l$aro$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
	<86vfdqpcjl.fsf@stronzo.brainbot.com>
Message-ID: <cjs7q6$cji$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>

> 
> For your purposes there is a complete python package:
> http://pygoogle.sourceforge.net/
> 

Wow, thanks for the heads-up.  I figured such a package would be 
included directly in Google's API demos if it existed since they seem to 
be such big Python advocates.

   Brian


From torsten.marek at student.uni-tuebingen.de  Fri Oct  8 10:03:27 2004
From: torsten.marek at student.uni-tuebingen.de (Torsten Marek)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:03:27 +0200
Subject: ANN: GUI wrapper for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4573.1097237841.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4573.1097237841.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41669E2F.7090208@student.uni-tuebingen.de>

Stelios Xanthakis schrieb:
> Hi.
> 
> I'd like to announce the availability of a high-level GUI wrapper
> for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython.
> 
> Check out the screenshot at
> 
>    http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/twgui/
> 
> I wanted to write a *simple* app with a GUI that didn't look as horrible
> as Tk and without having to ask from the users to install this or that. 
> All three (pygtk, pyqt and wxpython) have serious drawbacks for one to
> invest their time learning them.
> 
Having had just a short peek at your code (I come from a PyQt background), I'd
suggest that you use properties for stuff like enabled (any widget) and text
(line edits), which saves you a lot of functions. It should also be possible to
define the shadow classes automatically (either dynamically or with a script
that generates them from an input file), because the simple widgets (at least
for PyQt) look pretty much the same.

greetings

Torsten


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct 30 12:03:48 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:03:48 +0200
Subject: Regex speed
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5716.1099151905.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>	<DiEgd.6304$kM.2345@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<2uh4g5F29ntaoU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5716.1099151905.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2uhsb4F2998pnU1@uni-berlin.de>

Erik Heneryd wrote:
> Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
>> OK, thank you. I now got rid of all the regexes, and - surprise,
>> surprise - the speeds are almost equal. The bitter thing about it is
>> that there are now twelve LOC more in Python that don't make
>> understanding the code easier.
> 
> If your problem is that the re.compile() setup takes too long (compared 
> to the time taken to do the actual matching/replacing), my guess is that 
> you don't operate on that much data.  And if that's the case, does it 
> really matter if it's a fraction of a second slower?

My data file is 6 MB in size, I don't think that to be too little.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From d+pydev at trit.org  Sun Oct 31 10:13:27 2004
From: d+pydev at trit.org (Dima Dorfman)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:13:27 +0000
Subject: Pickle breakage with reduce of recursive structures (was:
	AssertionError in pickle's memoize function)
In-Reply-To: <yyoy8hp2nyx.fsf@hooknose.lbl.gov>
References: <yyo3bzx4e4w.fsf@hooknose.lbl.gov>
	<mailman.5674.1099074661.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<yyoy8hp2nyx.fsf@hooknose.lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <20041031151326.GB22539@trit.org>

[Followups to python-dev, please.]

[Michael Hohn]
> > > under python 2.2, the pickle/unpickle sequence incorrectly restores
> > > a larger data structure I have.
> > >
> > > Under Python 2.3, these structures now give an explicit exception from
> > > Pickle.memoize():
> > >    assert id(obj) not in self.memo
> > >

[Tim Peters]
> > Assertions are never expected to fail, so "something impossible
> > happened" when they do fail.

[Michael Hohn]
> Here is a code sample that shows the problem I ran into:

Summary for the OP: This is a bug in Python. Using cPickle won't help,
but if you don't subclass builtin container types others than list,
dict, and tuple, using pickle protocol 2 should work. The rest of this
message is for python-dev.


The simplest breaking case is:

  t = type('t', (list,), {})
  obj = t()
  obj.append(obj)
  pickle.dumps(obj)
  [infinite recursion]

The subclass causes save_reduce to be used instead of save_list. For
proto < 2, copy_reg._reduce_ex returns (_reconstructor, list(a)), and
the args--list(a)--cycle back through obj. Initially it looks like this
should be okay, but the args are saved before obj is memoized, and obj
can't be memoized until REDUCE can be executed with the args--and
there's the cycle. It is even more obviously impossible from the
unpickler's perspective because it has to call _reconstructor([obj]) to
create obj!

There are two separate problems:

  1. Any __reduce__ implementation that returns args that cycle back
     through the object it tried to reduce hasn't done its job. As
     described above, _reduce_ex is one such implementation. reduce_2
     avoids this by using the listitems and dictitems parameters. Since
     that's a pickler-side feature it can be used in _reduce_ex too. The
     basetype(obj) hook (documented in PEP 307) would remain for
     immutable bases; it doesn't work for containers, but user-defined
     containers already have to implement their own reduce functions.
     POC patch: http://www.trit.org/~dima/home/reduce_ex.diff

     At least the set and deque types also have this problem.

  2. The pickle implementations don't detect reduction cycles. Pickling
     an instance of this obviously broken class causes an infinite
     recursion:

         class evil(object):
             def __reduce__(self):
                 return evil, (self,)

     It's easy to detect this case. POC patch for the pickle module:
       http://www.trit.org/~dima/home/redcycle.diff

BTW, the failed assert the OP is seeing happens when the cycle goes
through another object:

  t = type('t', (list,), {})
  obj = t()
  d = {'obj': obj}
  obj.append(d)
  pickle.dumps(obj)
  [AssertionError]

cPickle has the same problem, but it lacks the assert, so it writes
garbage instead:

  new = cPickle.loads(cPickle.dumps(obj))
  new[0]['obj'] is new -> False   # wrong
  obj[0]['obj'] is obj -> True    # right

This makes the reduction cycle check (#2 above) more than just cosmetic
since if cPickle had that assert (it should) it would've been a crash.
Right now it's garbage output instead, which is arguably worse.

Formally complete versions of the above patches will be on SF tomorrow
unless someone suggests better alternatives.

Dima.


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 03:29:47 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 00:29:47 -0700
Subject: Becoming Unicode Aware
References: <6f402501.0410270256.13cf5727@posting.google.com>
	<1gmd10n.1xt7l7q6ahyacN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410282329.3728361c@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gmd10n.1xt7l7q6ahyacN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> Michael Foord <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > def afunction(setoflines, encoding='ascii'):
> >     for line in setoflines:
> >         if encoding:
> >             line = line.decode(encoding)
> 
> This snippet as posted is a complicated "no-op but raise an error for
> invalidly encoded lines", if it's the whole function.
> 

:-)
It wouldn't be the whole function...... glad you attribute me with
some intelligence ;-)

> Assuming the so-called setoflines IS not a set but a list (order
> normally matters in such cases), you may rather want:
> 
> def afunction(setoflines, encoding='ascii'):
>     for i, line in enumerate(setoflines):
>         setoflines[i] = line.decode(encoding)
> 
> The removal of the 'if' is just the same advice you were already given;
> if you want to be able to explicitly pass encoding='' to AVOID the
> decode (the whole purpose of the function), just insert a firs line
> 
>     if not encoding: return
> 
> rather than repeating the test in the loop.  But the key change is to
> use enumerate to get indices as well as values, and assign into the
> indexing in order to update 'setoflines' in-place; assigning to the
> local variable 'line' (assuming, again, that you didn't snip your code
> w/o a mention of that) is no good.

The rest of the function (which I didn't show) would actually process
the lines one by one......

Regards,


Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> 
> A good alternative might alternatively be
> 
>     setoflines[:] = [line.decode(encoding) for line in setoflines]
> 
> assuming again that you want the change to happen in-place.
> 
> 
> Alex


From adam at 757.org  Mon Oct 18 22:57:37 2004
From: adam at 757.org (Adam)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:57:37 -0400
Subject: python-dev Summary suggestion
In-Reply-To: <41747A89.6070608@ocf.berkeley.edu>
References: <41746E2A.7080703@757.org> <41747A89.6070608@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <417482A1.5090301@757.org>

Brett C. wrote:
> Adam wrote:
> 
>> Would it be possible to provide some kind of either syndication (RSS?) 
>> or (dedicated) email list for the Summary?  I don't have time to read 
>> / keep track of python-dev, so I really appreciate all the work you 
>> put into the summary - I'm just wondering if there might be a better 
>> way to 'get it out', rather than just a static web page on python.org.
>>
> 
> RSS would be possible, but the last time I suggest the idea to the web 
> team they didn't think it was worth it.  The thought was that since it 
> is on python-announce you can subscribe to that to get the Summary when 
> it comes out.

I noticed after I had sent the first email that it came out on regularly 
on python-announce, and picking it up there may be the simpler solution 
in the end - beats trying to remember to hit the website every two weeks!

> 
>> Has this been discussed before?  I googled around and didn't see 
>> anything mentioning this.  I see the cross post between python-dev and 
>> c.l.p.announce, but no mention of anything else (it may have been lost 
>> in the tons of hits :).
>>

> Tell you what, can you reply to the c.l.py and ask for people to comment 
> on the idea?  If enough people like the idea I will add the feed.
 >
 > -Brett


Anybody have any comments on this?  Good idea, horrid idea?  Now that I 
know it comes out on CLPA regularly, I'm not tied to the idea, though 
the notion of RSS is still attractive, given my personal browsing habits.

--
Adam


From davecook at nowhere.net  Tue Oct 26 10:10:33 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:10:33 GMT
Subject: newbie: pygtk (win, slack10)
References: <20041025212503.94278.qmail@web54001.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5495.1098779417.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncnsmmn.2al.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <mailman.5495.1098779417.5135.python-list at python.org>, Pierre N
wrote:

> Should be enough for a while :-))
> If I could speak Brazilian as well as you speak English, I would be 
> sooo happy...

See 

  http://pygtk.org

for the tutorial and reference.

If you want to run on windows, download and install the gladewin package:

  http://gladewin32.sourceforge.net/

as well as the pygtk package for win32:

  http://www.pcpm.ucl.ac.be/~gustin/win32_ports/

If you have questions, there is a significant cabal of Portuguese
speaking pygtk developers that hang out on gimpnet's #pygtk IRC channel.

  http://www.xach.com/gimpnet/

Dave Cook


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Oct  6 12:48:18 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:48:18 GMT
Subject: Retrieving the full path of Unix apps
In-Reply-To: <slrncm7cjk.b7p.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <cjuu5v$2n7$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>
	<w4E8d.3629$UP1.2214@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<slrncm7cjk.b7p.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <mlV8d.4278$UP1.241@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> def is_executable(filename):
>     return os.access(filename, os.X_OK)

Ahh.  Didn't know about 'access'.  Looks like I
could change

>>            if (os.path.exists(filename) and
>>                os.path.isfile(filename) and
>>                is_executable(filename)):

into

             if (os.access(filename, os.X_OK) and
                 os.path.isfile(filename)):

because access returns false if the file/directory
doesn't exist.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Mon Oct 11 17:45:33 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 21:45:33 GMT
Subject: Python email
References: <10mj13bcgn25v33@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041011174533.19211.00002356@mb-m03.aol.com>

I have no idea what this derived from POP3Magic thing is, can you give me more
on that.  I've begun to familiarize myself with the methods in email, but my
big snag seems to be that I get a single string that I can't manipulate with
these methods from what should be a multi-part message.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct  5 00:05:08 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:05:08 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Had you read the tutorial, you would discover the answers to all of
these questions, but I'll answer them anyways.


> 1. Multi line comments

No.

> 2. Functions as variables:
>     a. functions can be stored in variables, passed as arguments to 
> other functions, and returned as results.

Yes.

> 3. Function nesting with proper lexical scope (i.e. closures)

Yes.

> 4. Operator overloading (inc. the ability to define new operators)

Yes, check the operator module for names of operations.

> 5. Can I do this?  print("Hello " .. "World")  --> Hello World

Not precisely.  You can do:
print "Hello","World"
print ("Hello " "World")
print "Hello "+"World"

and many other variants.

> 6. Constructors

If you mean class instantiation, yes.

> 7. "Chunks": as in a code block contained within a string, file, or 
> delimited by some sort of notation (such as brackets) which can be 
> passed to and from functions, stored in objects, with the option of 
> local scoping of variables declared within it.

code = "print 'hello world'"
glbls = {}
lcls = {}

exec code, glbls, lcls


> 8. "Repeat-Until" as in :
>     repeat
>       line = os.read()
>     until line ~= ""
>     print(line)



line = sys.stdin.readline()
while line != '':
    print line
    line = sys.stdin.readline()

> 9. Generic for loops where " for i=1,f(x) do print(i) end" would print i 
> only once.

for i in xrange(1,n+1,1):
    print i
    break


> 10. Can I call an object's method as object:method(arg) and have that 
> translate into object.method(object, arg)

class foo:
    def goo(self, arg):
        print self, arg
    def bar(arg):
        print arg
    bar = staticmethod(bar)

a = foo()
a.goo(arg) #will print information about the instance and argument
a.bar(arg) #will only print information about the argument

> 11. Can I make dynamic statements and nature like with eval() in Javascript?

Yes, check both eval and exec

> 12. Can I make calls to a function with a varying number of arguments?

Yes.

> 13. Named arguments

Yes.

> 14. Tables with built-in methods for manipulation such as sort, etc.

We call them lists.

> 15. Table filters

filter(callable, iterable)

> 15. Proper Tail Call (otherwise known as Proper Tail Recursion)

No, it kills tracebacks.

> 16. The ability to call a function without brackets

No.

> 17. Is the Python interpreter a JIT? Does it have a bytecode?  Is it as 
> fast as Java?

There is a module called Psyco that does do JIT compilation.
In the CPython implementation, bytecode is automatically generated.

If you want to know about speed, check a benchmark site.


> 18. The ability to modify the import/require functionality (how modules 
> can be loaded)

Yes, you can write custom import hooks.

> 19. Coroutines and threads (non-preemptive)

Threads, yes.  For corutines, check out greenlets or Stackless Python.


> 20. Date persistence and serialization

This can mean any one of a dozen things.


> 21. May modules be stored in variables, passed to and produced from 
> functions, and so forth?

Yes, though it isn't done very often.

> 22. Is the self parameter hidden from me as a programmer?  Can I 
> hide/unhide it as I wish?

It is not hidden, in fact, you get to name it...

class foo:
    def goo(I_AM_SELF, arg):
        pass

> 23. Prototype-based OOP or the ability to extend a class without 
> physically modifying it

We have unlimited subclassing.  If you want prototypes, check out
Prothon.

> 24. Manual garbage management

You can disable it, or force collection.

gc.disable()
gc.collect()

> 25. A fully implemented .NET counterpart (I should be able to write 
> Python scripts for both with the same code)

Check IronPython and PythonNET

> 26. How easily can other languages access it and vice versa?

C and C++ are easy.  There is a TCL interface.

Anything with C or C++ interfaces are arguably trivial to talk to.

> 27. The option of mixing in static typing

Python has no static typing.

> 28. Automatic type coercion

Certain kinds of things can do what is known as "type coercion" in other
languages.  What kinds of coercion did you want to do.

> 29. Is Python designed in such a way that I may merely "plugin" a 
> C/C++/Java/D module which will then allow for mixing their syntax and 
> perhaps even access to their facilities within Python?

You can call C/C++ functions in Python (a large portion of the standard
library is implemented in C).

Jython allows nearly transparent use of Python and Java.

You don't get other language syntaxes, generally.

> 30. Messaging syntax such as : [myColor setRed:0.0 green:0.5 blue:1.0] 
> or [dog bring:paper to:me] and [[myAunt phone] setTo:[myUncle phone]] 
> <--- Nested messages and [dog perform:sel_get_uid("bark")] which is the 
> same as [dog bark]

We don't do messaging syntax.  Combining messaging and object-oriented
syntax would make for an ugly language.

> 31. Concepts of Protocols (whereby one may organize related methods into 
> groups and check whether a particular object implements the methods 
> within this protocol), or Interfaces similar to those in Java whereby 
> classes or objects which implement the interface (sign the contract) 
> must implement the methods and attributes as specified in the interface, 
> and/or programming by contract such as in Eiffel (see: 
> http://www.devhood.com/tutorials/tutorial_details.aspx?tutorial_id=595)

No.  Test-driven development is the norm in Python.

> 32. Support for unplanned reuse of classes such as in TOM 
> (http://www.gerbil.org/tom/)

Subclassing.

> 33. Function/Method overloading

Yes.

> 34. In pure Python, can I change and add new constructs to the Python 
> syntax?

Yes, if you are willing to work for it.

> 35. May I modify the garbage collector?

If you really want, though it already works fine.

> 36. May I implement control structures as object messages?

If you want.

> 37. Dynamic dispatch

This could mean a few different things.

> 38. Reflection and/or templates

Think subclasses.

> 39. Unicode

Yes.

> 40. Ability to call external APIs and DLLs with relative ease

Check pywin32.

> 41. How easy is it to port my Python code to C/C++/C# or Java?

Depends on how experienced you are with those languages.

> 42. The ability to assign a method(s) to a collection/group of objects 
> [with a particular signature i.e.]

No.

> 43. Embedding variables in strings like: print "Hello, World. Time: 
> #{Time.now}"

t = time.asctime()
print "Hello World %(t)s"%{'t':t}
print "Hello World %(t)s"%locals()

> 44. Case or Switch statements with functionality as such:
> case score
> when 0...40
>    puts "Horrible!"
> when 40...60
>    puts "Poor"
> when 60...80
>    puts "You can do better!"
> when 80...95
>    puts "Now that's acceptable"
> when 95..100
>    puts "That the best you can do?  j/k"
> else
>    puts "Didn't take the test?"
> end

No.

> 45. Are all things objects in Python?  Do all objects have built-in 
> iterators and the like?  i.e. can I do this:
>     3.times { print "Ho! " }
>     puts "Merry Christmas"

Not everything has an iterator, though many does.


Next time, read the damn documentation.

 - Josiah



From jbors at mail.ru  Tue Oct  5 02:08:20 2004
From: jbors at mail.ru (Dmitry Borisov)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:08:20 -0700
Subject: mp3/ogg player
References: <mailman.4282.1096931463.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10m4eil87rmcd22@corp.supernews.com>

"Francis Lavoie" wrote in message
news:mailman.4282.1096931463.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Hi
>
> I looking to build a second program in python. I would like to code a
> music player, which can play mp3 an ogg files. But every solution that I
> find, seem over complicated or not multiplaform.
> Is there a simple package of libraries that we only have to install
> once, or plug it into the program that give mp3 and ogg playability like
> a .jar file in java?

Not sure if you tried pygame or pymedia( http://pymedia.org )
Dmitry/




From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Oct  7 10:17:50 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:17:50 +0200
Subject: ctypes, error when calling function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4501.1097157999.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <4165275e$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.4501.1097157999.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41654fd7$0$216$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Richie Hindle wrote:
> [Max]
> 
>>caps = MIDIOUTCAPS()
>>[...]
>>print winmm.midiOutGetDevCapsA(deviceID, caps, sizeof(caps))
>>[...]
>>ValueError: Procedure probably called with too many arguments (60 bytes 
>>in excess)
> 
> 
> You need to pass byref(caps) rather than caps.  The API expects a
> pointer to the structure, not the structure itself.

Thanks. Yes I figured it out about the same time i read your reply.

I guess it's been about 15 years since I have last coded in c, :-s so 
I'm a bit rusty.

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Sun Oct 24 15:22:48 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:22:48 -0400
Subject: how do i change from string to list
In-Reply-To: <clgunn$dd9$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>	<417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<clgunn$dd9$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <417C0108.5000205@kzoo.edu>

Michael Hoffman wrote:

> Ivo Woltring wrote:
>
>> str='spot'
>>
>> lst = [] # declare the list first
>> for letter in str:
>>     lst.append(letter) # append to the list
>>
>> print lst
>
>
> I just would have used list("spot").
>
>> result: ['s', 'p', 'o', 't']
>
>
> Same result but faster, more transparent, and with a lot less code.
>
> Also, please don't top-post.

Also, if for some reason you didn't want to use list that would look 
more elegant as a list comprehension:

 >>> y = "Hello!"
 >>> [x for x in y]
['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o', '!']
 >>>



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Oct  5 12:38:24 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 12:38:24 -0400
Subject: OT: movie fluff (was Re: New to Python: Features)
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162185c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4296.1096948074.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41621efc$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <cjuim0$gar$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <41621efc$0$59533$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>,
Grant Edwards  <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>
>Which one, the "Rude much?" crack or the "You've got to be kidding..."
>crack?  The latter isn't all that improper (especially not for Usenet).
>The former is colloqial US English.  More specifically it's "Valley
>Speak" -- made popular outside "The Valley" by movies like "Valley
>Girl", "Mall Rats", "Heathers", and just about any John Hughes movie
>(especially Sixteen Candles).  The first two are crap, but "Heathers"
>is a good movie, and I still like "Sixteen Candles".

_Heathers_ may be good, but I was unable to finish watching it.  I find
it too painful to watch people behaving stupidly for no good reason.
Similarly, I was unable to finish watching _Bandits_.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From mike at spindler.us  Mon Oct 18 09:14:42 2004
From: mike at spindler.us (mikeSpindler)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 06:14:42 -0700
Subject: execvp() on Solaris
Message-ID: <f197302b.0410180514.4c38809b@posting.google.com>

I've seen it addressed in searching, but not specifically what is
recommended to get around it.  On Linux where I did my development all
was fine.  But then going to Solaris for the target I found I couldn't
resolve the errors wrt execvp().  It's apparently not syntax, but I
could be wrong.  Any other thoughts on how to get execvp() working
and/or how to cat a file in a new window without bringing tkinter into
the discussion?

My example:
  os.system("xterm -geometry 120x20 -e \"tail -f ./logs/DATAFILE\"&")

Thank you!
Mike


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 10:27:43 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:27:43 +0200
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> Yes, that's a good point, and it's one of the reasons I tend to prefer
> the generator now. But anyway, it's just me, or does the 'chained
> yield' look ugly to someone else? It may be just a question of getting
> used to it, but nevertheless it's bugging me...

I'm not sure why it should look ugly to you.  What alternatives would
you consider non-ugly for the common (in any generator) idiom:
    for x in y: yield x
?

Perhaps some syntax hack such as a new statement keyword 'yieldall'
where the above idiom could be expressed as
    yieldall y
?  Or some other syntax hack such as 'yield<<y', or 'yield from y',
ditto?  Personally, it would seem to me that such special syntax would
be just one more bit of Python to learn, without substantial benefits,
but that's because I see nothing ugly in today's idiom -- it does just
what it says, plainly and unpretentiously...


Alex


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sun Oct 31 04:37:25 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:37:25 -0500
Subject: Collecting links to Python 3D (and related) projects...
Message-ID: <4184B255.5060009@rogers.com>

I've put together a collection of links to Python 3D projects:

    http://www.vrplumber.com/py3d.py

at the moment I only have 36 projects listed.  I *know* there are more 
out there, but tracking them all down myself is rather time-consuming.  
So, if you have, or know of a project that isn't included in the list, 
please send me an email about it.

Have fun,
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 15:13:56 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:13:56 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
   ...
> >> still possible to use introspection to access thread-local data in
> >> another thread.
> >
> >Is it...?  Maybe I'm missing something...:
> 
> If you look at the code for _threading_local, you'll see that it depends
> on __getattribute__() to acquire a lock and patch in the current
> thread's local state.  IIRC from the various threads about securing
> Python, there are ways to break __getattribute__(), but I don't remember
> any off-hand (and don't have time to research).

I believe you're thinking of the minimal portable version: I believe
that for such systems as Windows and Linux (together probably 99% of
Python users, and i speak as a Mac fan...!-) there are specific
implementations that use faster and probably unbreakable approaches.


Alex


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct  8 18:34:47 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 22:34:47 GMT
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4576.1097244237.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <00ab01c4ad2a$bfe9aa90$ccbefea9@twilliams>	<41668EDD.8090808@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.4576.1097244237.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bCE9d.7097$UP1.208@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Tim Williams
> Yeah,  I did wonder about changing the code  (though it's not my first
> choice. I've done it before and caught a crab later),   or could I do it
> with Subclassing?
> 
>  I'm still close to Newbie status, so I can't immediately imagine what  I
> could change the smptblib code to write to,    or  how to subclass to get
> the behaviour I might need.

It can't be done with subclassing.  You'll need to copy smtplib
to a new file.  Call it 'smtplib2.py'.

Edit it so the class constructor takes an output file object

class SMTP:
     ...
     def __init__(self, host = '', port = 0, local_hostname = None,
                  debugfile = sys.stderr):
         ....
         self.debugfile = debugfile

This lets you attach an arbitrary file-like object to each
SMTP instance.

Then go through the class definition and change every place
that looks like

         if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, 'connect:', (host, port)

into

         self.debugmsg('connect:', (host, port))

and create a new method named 'debugmsg' which looks like

      def debugmsg(self, *args):
         self.debugfile.write(" ".join(map(str, args))) + "\n")

(Or the long way

      def debugmsg(self, *args):
         if args:
           self.debugfile.write(str(args[0]))
           for arg in args[1:]:
             self.debufile.write(" " + str(args[1]))
         self.debugfile.write("\n")

Another option, if you decide to go this route, is that you
can change the protocol and the debug messages.  For example,
if you want it to go to a list you can change this so as
to use a 'debug_msgqueue = []' and so debugmsg appends the
args to that list.

You can also change the actual messages sent by the library.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Oct 20 22:48:10 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:48:10 +1300
Subject: Python + Java knowledge
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5236.1098296547.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5169.1098194201.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4175ed72$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.5236.1098296547.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2tombdF22ksv0U1@uni-berlin.de>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Most programming languages require in a natural language sense, a
> grammatical knowledge of the programming language in order to understand
> it.  Ergo, those that do well with grammar, generally would do well with
> learning new programming languages (API notwithstanding); as programming
> languages are a basic grammar with a handful of vocabulary words and
> punctuation thrown into the mix.

Also, learning a programming language is usually a MUCH
simpler affair than learning a natural language. The
grammars of natural languages tend to be rather haphazard
and require memorizing a large number of arbitrary rules.
Programming languages are usually a lot simpler and
more regular.

I consider myself well acquainted with quite a number of
programming languages, but despite studying French for
a few years at school, English remains the only natural
language in which I'm anywhere near fluent!

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 09:14:40 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:14:40 -0400
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <z5nr98uuk2l4.ul5xbcv4hq6x.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<du71xgjpsay.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<z5nr98uuk2l4.ul5xbcv4hq6x.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <r8ydncR5KordxcDcRVn-qg@powergate.ca>

Wolfgang Keller wrote:
> There seem to be some Python bits out there, for example MatPLC and
> Lintouch use Python and some commercial products as well (PyDACHS), but
> unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a more or less consistent library
> for industrial automation or a coordinated effort to build up one.

What, in your opinion, would it take to start one?  I'm able to
offer the use of a server to host a web site, and would be happy
to register a domain name or something, but those are the easy
bits.  Some kind of core group to get it off the group is likely
more important than a name, though sometimes threads in this
group might lead one to suspect otherwise. ;-)

-Peter


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sat Oct  2 18:36:33 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:36:33 -0600
Subject: python vs c#
In-Reply-To: <0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <415F2D71.10909@pythonapocrypha.com>

Tim Roberts wrote:
> Sam Holden <sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
> 
>>Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This particular pickle is a disagreement of number: since there is only 
>>>one village, the correct slogan should be "... is missing its idiot". If 
>>>you thought it was "... it's idiot" then take two demerits and refrain 
>>>from posting on c.l.py for 48 hours.
>>
>>Their isn't necessarily plural so that isn't a problem. Since arguing
>>grammar isn't something I can do successfully, I'll instead resort
>>to an appeal to authority and say that one of the authors of 
>>"The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language" agrees with me:
[snip]

> Second, "their" is allowed as a singular pronoun only in those cases where
> a gender-specific pronoun is called for, but the gender is unclear or would
> be sexist.  Instead of "Everyone brought his Python manual," we are now
> allowed to say "Everyone brought their Python manual."

It's now correct to use "their" in that way now? Yay! I'm glad the way I've 
always used it is finally correct. Take THAT, my English teachers of days long 
gone! Now if I could only convince them to happily split infinitives...

-Dave


From claird at lairds.us  Thu Oct  7 01:08:03 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 05:08:03 GMT
Subject: Suggestions for Python workshop
References: <f2d68a30.0410061223.7f40fc9a@posting.google.com>
	<ck1lhc$qi9$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <hgse32-jla.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <ck1lhc$qi9$1 at peabody.colorado.edu>,
Fernando Perez  <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Yaroslav wrote:
>
>> Hi, I'm preparing a 2 hour workshop titled "Python for Scientific
>> Computing", the goal of which is to introduce people to using Python
>> for their Scientific Computing needs. If you have good examples that
>> illustrate Python's power for scientific computing, please post them
>> here.
>
>These aren't code snippets but full talks, but we're definitely using python
>for 'real' research:
>
>http://amath.colorado.edu/faculty/fperez/talks/04_03_ams_athens.pdf
>http://amath.colorado.edu/faculty/fperez/talks/04_09_scipy04_mwadap.pdf
>
>Here you'll also find other talks from the recent scipy'04:
>
>http://www.scipy.org/wikis/scipy04/ConferenceSchedule
>
>As far as code examples, I imagine all of scipy's code could be used :)
			.
			.
			.
I have strong feelings on this subject, only a fraction of which 
I'll be able to articulate this week.

First, follow everything Fernando says; he's doing great work.

Second, I see a variety of approaches to Python-for-scientists,
and I hope you're able to end up with a Pythonic one.  There's
low-level how-to-ing:  "this is an implementation of a
Rayleigh-Ritz algorithm for PDE solution; you can use this in 
hydrodynamics to ..."  What *really* gets interesting, though,
are comparing Python to other vehicles--Matlab, C++, Fortran--
and, if you're really good, opening the audience's eyes to the 
potential of a language which facilitates comprehension, collabor-
ation, and experimentation.  Most scientific listeners won't 
understand abstraction as it applies to software.  Python-for-
scientists represents a great opportunity.


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Oct  3 07:25:00 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 13:25:00 +0200
Subject: File handling: The easy and the hard way
References: <pan.2004.09.30.13.56.48.18412@web.de>
Message-ID: <1vfpqxbsm1igk.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Hans-Joachim Widmaier (2004-09-30 15:56 +0200)
> Handling files is an extremely frequent task in programming, so most
> programming languages have an abstraction of the basic files offered by
> the underlying operating system. This is indeed also true for our language
> of choice, Python. Its file type allows some extraordinary convenient
> access like:
> 
>     for line in open("blah"):
>         handle_line(line)
> 
> While this is very handy for interactive usage or throw-away scripts, I'd
> consider it a serious bug in a "production quality" software. Tracebacks
> are fine for programmers, but end users really never should see any.

Correct. Set sys.tracebacklimit to zero (and leave it at the default
1000 for "--debug').

> Especially not when the error is not in the program itself, but rather
> just a mistyped filename. (Most of my helper scripts that we use to
> develop software handle files this way. And even my co-workers don't
> recognize 'file or directory not found' for what it is.) End users are
> entitled to error messages they can easily understand like "I could not
> open 'blaah' because there is no such file". Graceful error handling is
> even more important when a program isn't just run on a command line but
> with a GUI.
> 
> Which means? Which means that all this convenient file handling that
> Python offers really should not be used in programs you give away. When I
> asked for a canonical file access pattern some months ago, this was the
> result:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=pan.2003.12.30.21.32.37.195763%40web.de&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Dde%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26q%3Dfile%2Bpattern%2Bcanonical%26btnG%3DSuche%26meta%3D
> 
> Now I have some programs that read and write several files at once. And
> the reading and writing is done all over the place. If I really wanted to
> do it "right", my once clear and readily understandable code turns into a
> nightmare. This doesn't look like the language I love for its clarity and
> expressivness any more.

I think the whole task is rather complicated. Python just passes the
error message of the operating system through without interpreting it.
Of course "no such file" is b***sh*t for an error message (because
it's even lacking a verb) but can Python by itself be more
sophisticated about these things than the OS? I don't think so.

Think about "/foo/bar/baz/text.txt doesn't exist". There are multiple
reasons

1. There is a directory /foo/bar/baz/ but no test.txt in it.
2. The whole path hierarchy is missing: there isn't even a /foo.
3. It was there, I know it because wrote to the file, but now I cannot
access the directory anymore. Is the file deleted? The directory? Did
I lose access to the network where the share is actually located?

Now this is where the intelligence of the programmer comes in and they
try to guess. They say: "Sorry, I'm not sitting in front of the
machinem but this error message could mean this." And oftenly they are
ridiciously wrong.

If anyone ever made some kind of "error matrix" - meaning if error foo
and bar but not baz then it's likely whatever, the whole community
could profit.

Thorsten


From marketing at intekasia.com  Thu Oct  7 10:04:56 2004
From: marketing at intekasia.com ( DD)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 14:04:56 GMT
Subject: Lolita in China
Message-ID: <ck3ie8$mv4933@imsp212.netvigator.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041007/01eef370/attachment.html>

From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Wed Oct  6 17:19:19 2004
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 14:19:19 -0700
Subject: Social Analysis and Modeling for Python
References: <415AD6A4.7000400@cloudthunder.com>	<1096493975.1238.45.camel@emilio>	<mailman.4108.1096499054.5135.python-list@python.org>	<a8623416.0410011046.5c2638cd@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4191.1096666380.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0410061319.4032e273@posting.google.com>

Yeah, working with C made it pretty horrible, you had to use records
and functions to try to simulate objects, and basically it meant that
anytime someone made a change, there was often an unfortunate ripple
effect.  And the memory leaks, ugh.  And my background was electrical
engineering, so that didn't help too much, but I picked things up
pretty quickly.  I made a little knock off version of the program
that, instead of simulating an entire population, took a single
individual and did a monte carlo simulation of possible futures of
that person.  The results were a little more personal that way.  But
that was all a long time ago, I'm sure the state of the art is far
beyond that now.

-------- Corey


Bishara Gabriel <bgabriel at cloudthunder.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4191.1096666380.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Corey Coughlin wrote:
> 
> >Actually, back in school, I worked for a sociology professor doing a
> >human population simulator, where we had all these people objects and
> >a set of functions that updated their attributes as time went on, but
> >we were forced to do it in C to have in run on the campus
> >supercomputer, so it wasn't what you'd call object oriented.  I can
> >see how using Python would make the modeling aspects a lot simpler. 
> >So, to sum, sounds cool, hope you have a lot of sucess with it.
> >
> >  
> >
> C???  My, that isn't even C++.  That must have been a real pain (mind 
> stretcher) I imagine.  What is your area of specialty?
> 
> Thanks for the encouragement.  We also are hoping to have a lot of success!


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct  4 03:51:42 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 07:51:42 GMT
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.4166.1096612732.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<9j6ul0db19k6rrmfjbs6kgjar0ldagfoji@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4233.1096845840.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cjqvee$52d$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:23:58 +1100, Andrew Durdin <adurdin at gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 14:31:05 -0700, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I was going to object to this statement.  I went to my good friend "Google"
>> to look up some references but "a number of" is very common and thus
>> difficult to search for.
>
>Not at all:
>
>"+a number +of * have" -- about 1,280,000 results
>"+a number +of * has" -- about 28,800 results

Google seems to accept those quoted arguments, but I could not
find '*' usage explained in the advanced search tips. Nor usage of
special characters within quotes. Where did you find out about that?
(And are you sure you need the +'s? The '*' does definitiely do something though.)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Oct  1 03:22:26 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 01 Oct 2004 09:22:26 +0200
Subject: C API eqivalent of object.__new__
Message-ID: <tyfis9uewct.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

How would one write object._new__(SomeType) in the C API ?

... and what lies behind the following behaviour:

  >>> object.__new__(T)
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  TypeError: object.__new__(T) is not safe, use T.__new__()

where T refers to almost any fundamental Python type ?


From ralf at brainbot.com  Mon Oct  4 14:23:58 2004
From: ralf at brainbot.com (Ralf Schmitt)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:23:58 +0200
Subject: Comparing WSDL & SOAP libraries...
References: <cjqq2l$aro$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <86vfdqpcjl.fsf@stronzo.brainbot.com>

Brian Beck <exogen at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi again folks!
>
> I tried searching the newsgroup for this and nobody seemed to be
> asking the questions I wanted.
>
> I'm trying to take advantage of the Google API using Python, and it
> comes with a WSDL file in order to do so.  Of course, I immediately
> figured someone must have already written a WSDL parser in Python.
>

For your purposes there is a complete python package:
http://pygoogle.sourceforge.net/

> It appears that I have a few options...
>
> SOAPy - http://soapy.sourceforge.net/
> wsdl4py - http://www-124.ibm.com/developerworks/projects/wsdl4py/
> ZSI - http://packages.debian.org/testing/python/python-zsi
>
> It also looked like there was a tutorial using a 'WebService' module,
> but I couldn't immediately find a home page for this -- it may have
> been the project that SOAPy is a part of.
>
> I'd simply like to know if someone has already done all the research
> in this area and has come to a conclusion regarding which one of these
> is the 'best'?  Easiest to set up and use, fastest, frequently
> updated, etc...
>

I once tried to use ZSI to implement a soap server. It's neither easy
to set up and use, nor fast. In the end I wrote my own package to
implement a soap server.

- Ralf
-- 
brainbot technologies ag
boppstrasse 64 . 55118 mainz . germany
fon +49 6131 211639-1 . fax +49 6131 211639-2
http://brainbot.com/  mailto:ralf at brainbot.com


From golux at comcast.net  Fri Oct  1 03:04:37 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 03:04:37 -0400
Subject: python vs c# [gone OT]
In-Reply-To: <415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <415D0185.9070207@comcast.net>

Ah, the joys of OT ... :)

Steve Holden wrote:
> Well, terrific. Now I get to talk about one of my pet peeves. A friend 
> just gave me a bumper sticker which, as a true (but hopefully liberal) 
> pedant I had real trouble with. It reads "Some village in Texas is 
> missing their idiot", and the reason for my perplexity was, while I feel 
> the sentiment it expresses is admirable (though perhaps mistaken: I only 
> wish George W Bush *were* as stupid as he manages to appear), I have to 
> take issue with the grammar used to express it.
> 
> This particular pickle is a disagreement of number: since there is only 
> one village, the correct slogan should be "... is missing its idiot".

Although I agree with you, interpreting the noun "village" as a
collective noun (http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/collectivenoun.htm)
is a correct usage; therefore, it can be used with a plural verb.
Of course, that does kind of change the sense -- all those
people thinking wistfully of the idiot they lost ...  :)

(Incidentally, one of the more extreme cases I've seen was in
England, where I saw an "out-of-order" sign at the entrance to
the an Underground station that began "The London Transport
regret ...."   I tried to imagine all the individual personnel
of London Transport feeling regret that that particular station
was closed.  Gee, what a compassionate people!  ;)

Cheers,
Steve


From alexander.landgraf at gmx.net  Wed Oct 20 17:56:48 2004
From: alexander.landgraf at gmx.net (Alexander Landgraf)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:56:48 GMT
Subject: Python 2.3.4 under AT&T MP RAS SVR4: ld: Symbol referencing errors.
Message-ID: <Xns95891025308alskdjfh10@192.168.0.254>

Hi group,

I am not sure if this is the correct place for my question.
If not, please tell me.

I tried to compile Python 2.3.4 under AT&T MP RAS SVR4:
$./configure --prefix=${HOME} --with-threads=no
$make
but make fails because each invocation of ld causes errors like:

...
running build
running build_ext
building 'struct' extension
cc -DNDEBUG -O -OPT:Olimit=0 -I. -I/home/q904958/src/python2_3_  
4/./Include -I/home/q904958/src/python2_3_4/Include -
I/home/q904958/src/python2_3_4 -c /home/q904958/src/python2_3_
4/Modules/structmodule.c -o build/temp.dwh1-4.0-3446-2.3/structmodule.o
(cc:) Unknown optimization designation: -OPT:Olimit=0. Opt level 0 
assumed. 
NCR High Performance C Compiler R3.0c 
(c) Copyright 1994-98, NCR Corporation
(c) Copyright 1987-98, MetaWare Incorporated
ld build/temp.dwh1-4.0-3446-2.3/structmodule.o -L/usr/local/lib -o 
build/lib.dwh1-4.0-3446-2.3/struct.so
Undefined			first referenced
 symbol  			    in file
strftime           build/temp.dwh1-4.0-3446-2.3/structmodule.o
__wcstok_ptr_      build/temp.dwh1-4.0-3446-2.3/structmodule.o
PyLong_FromUnsignedLong build/temp.dwh1-4.0-3446-2.3/structmodule.o
PyInt_Type         build/temp.dwh1-4.0-3446-2.3/structmodule.o
PyLong_Type        build/temp.dwh1-4.0-3446-2.3/structmodule.o
PyTuple_Type       build/temp.dwh1-4.0-3446-2.3/structmodule.o
...
UX:ld: ERROR: build/lib.dwh1-4.0-3446-2.3/struct.so: fatal error: Symbol 
referencing errors. No output written to build/lib.dwh1-4.0-3446-
2.3/struct.so
...

My questions are:
1) Does that mean ld is unable to locate libraries?
   (Which libraries? strftime() is declared in time.h but
    I guess PyInt_Type is Python specific)
2) What is the correct way to specify library locations?
   (I tried ./configure --with-libs=-L/usr/lib but 
    ld arguments did not change)

Thank you for any hints.

Alexander


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 10 03:28:15 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 09:28:15 +0200
Subject: xml file structure for use with ElementTree?
References: <d4c0d480.0410082230.29766fac@posting.google.com><oPM9d.172$Bw1.90@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net><d4c0d480.0410090807.2a3ea1a2@posting.google.com>
	<wF1ad.8002$UP1.5169@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ckao6e$ppq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

>> That's the ticket!  Unfortunately at the moment when I run this code I
>> get the following error:'
>> ElementTree instance has no attribute 'remove'
>> but I'll try to work through that.
>
> Perhaps you need a newer version of ElementTree?  I don't
> know when 'remove' was added.

remove is available on Element instances.  it's not available on ElementTree
wrappers.

</F> 





From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Oct  7 07:25:44 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:25:44 +0200
Subject: ctypes, error when calling function
Message-ID: <4165275e$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Trying to write realtime midi in Windows I am using ctypes. So I have 
written a small wrapper for winmm.dll

It partly works. I get this error when I try to run it:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "E:\maxm\pys\MIDI-R~1\x.py", line 203, in ?
     print winmm.midiOutGetDevCaps(deviceID, caps, sizeof(caps))
   File "E:\maxm\pys\MIDI-R~1\x.py", line 133, in __getattr__
     return getattr(self._winmm, attr)
   File "C:\pytyons\Python23\Lib\site-packages\ctypes\__init__.py", line 
316, in __getattr__
     func = self._StdcallFuncPtr(name, self)
AttributeError: function 'midiOutGetDevCaps' not found

But the documentation says that the midiOutGetDevCaps() should exist in 
the dll.

It calls the midiOutGetNumDevs() function in the dll nicely, wich is why 
I find it to be strange problem.

Does anybody have a clue? It's my first try at ctypes, so I am a bit 
lost here.

regards Max M


#################################3
# The code

from ctypes import *

MAXPNAMELEN = 32

class MIDIOUTCAPS(Structure):
     _fields_ = [
         ("wMid", c_int), # WORD
         ("wPid", c_int), # WORD
         ("vDriverVersion", c_long), # MMVERSION
         ("szPname", c_char * MAXPNAMELEN), # CHAR
         ("wTechnology", c_int), # WORD
         ("wVoices", c_int), # WORD
         ("wNotes", c_int), # WORD
         ("wChannelMask", c_int), # WORD
         ("dwSupport", c_long), # DWORD
     ]


class Winmm:

     """A *very* thin wrapper over WINMM.DLL :-)
     """

     def __init__(self):
         self._winmm = windll.WINMM

     def __getattr__(self, attr):
         return getattr(self._winmm, attr)



if __name__ == '__main__':

     caps = MIDIOUTCAPS()
     winmm = Winmm()
     numDevs = winmm.midiOutGetNumDevs()
     for deviceID in range(-1, numDevs):
         print winmm.midiOutGetDevCaps(deviceID, caps, sizeof(caps))






-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 31 05:09:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:09:28 +0200
Subject: Enumerate question: Inner looping like in Perl
References: <4183d256$0$3665$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
	<mailman.5720.1099162140.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4184bef5$0$19027$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
Message-ID: <1gmis1r.khw0v1jpv8rzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Pekka Niiranen <pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> ...                   try:
> ...                           for i, char in itr:
> ...                                   print 'inner', i, char
> ...                                   if char == 'f':
> ...                                           break
> ...                   except StopIteration:
> ...                           print "f not found"
   ...
> Not working: Iter() takes care of its own exceptions?

Nope.  Rather, the 'for' statement does not propagate the StopIteration
exception that terminates it -- such a propagation would be extremely
disruptive of 99% of Python's programs, and I'm astonished that you
expected it!

What you want is, I believe, among the Tutorial's examples...:

for i, ch in itr:
    print 'inner', i, ch
    if ch == 'f': break
else:
    print 'f not found'

That's what the 'else' clause in a 'for' statement is for: it triggers
when the loop terminates normally (as opposed to ending with a break or
return or by propagating an exception).  The ability to deal with a "not
found" case, where the "found" cases exit by break, is the main use case
of this 'else' clause.

> This recurring feeling that writing REALLY correct programs in Python
> is not easier than in lower level languages... :(

I think that you can get all the info about Python you need for the
purpose (and then some) from "Python in a Nutshell", but of course I'm
biased...;-)


Alex


From jhefferon at smcvt.edu  Wed Oct 27 10:44:09 2004
From: jhefferon at smcvt.edu (Jim Hefferon)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 07:44:09 -0700
Subject: Becoming Unicode Aware
References: <6f402501.0410270256.13cf5727@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <545cb8c2.0410270644.7aa2128d@posting.google.com>

fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) wrote ...
> I'm trying to become 'unicode-aware'... *sigh*. What's that quote - 'a
> native speaker of ascii will never learn to speak unicode like a
> native'. The trouble is I think I've been a native speaker of latin-1
> without realising it.
It *is* odd, IMHO, that my database connector spits out strings-like
things that have 8-bit data so that when I
"".join(array_of_database_strings) them, I get a failure.  I've
learned to by-hand them into unicode strings, but it is odd. 
Something like a pair (encoding,string) seems more natural to me, but
probably I just don't get the issues.
> 
> My main problem with udnerstanding unicode is what to do with
> arbitrary text without an encoding specified. To the best of my
> knowledge the technical term for this situation is 'buggered'. E.g. I
> have a CGI guestbook script. Is the only way of knowing what encodign
> the user is typing in, to ask them ?
> 
I found this link
  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18643#c12
useful.

Jim


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Wed Oct  6 06:23:58 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:23:58 GMT
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <1gl8cxp.1bwobhn1emgfx1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<5Wu8d.25573$H11.796921@twister1.libero.it>
	<1gl8cxp.1bwobhn1emgfx1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2JP8d.26848$N45.697634@twister2.libero.it>

Alex Martelli ha scritto:

> 
> Please explain how this syntax choice "discriminates" anything
> whatsoever?  __getattr__ is called when some message isn't understood by
> the "normal" mechanisms of the object, too.

I actually meant __getattribute__ sorry.


The point is that when you write
x.foo(y)
in py you're looking up foo, then calling it with y.
Actually you can even store x.foo away and call it later
f=x.foo

in ST you can't cause you're not doing a dict lookup when you write
x foo: y

obviously you could send another message asking for x to give you a 
method foo: object


Not that one is better than other just a subtle difference.


From exarkun at divmod.com  Fri Oct 15 14:06:02 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:06:02 GMT
Subject: [Web-SIG] WSGI async API
In-Reply-To: <864d3709041015105131652057@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041015180602.4730.1637681532.divmod.quotient.123@ohm>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:51:54 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:24:19 -0400, Peter Hunt <floydophone at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Essentially, Twisted.Web gives you something like this:
> > 
> > class MyResource(resource.Resource):
> >     def render(self, request):
> >         return "content here" # you could also do request.write("content here")
> > 
> > If you do an async call, you have to use request.write() to write the
> > data, return server.NOT_DONE_YET from the render() method, and call
> > request.finish() to finish the request.
> 
> Just curious, so forgive me from jumping into the middle of the
> discussion. Isn't this one of the scenarios where output generators
> are most useful? Assuming that Twisted supported it, you could yield
> lines until there were nothing else to write. Did I get it right?
> 

  Only if you can also signal to the code which is iterating the generator that it should stop iterating it for a while, otherwise user code might be called upon for bytes before they are available.

  If I have understand the conversation on the matter then this caveat is a main stumbling block for the async wsgi api.

  Jp


From james.frohnhofer at csfb.com  Thu Oct 14 12:01:12 2004
From: james.frohnhofer at csfb.com (Frohnhofer, James)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:01:12 +0100
Subject: question on list comprehensions
Message-ID: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C616E9@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>

I have to admit, I'm still not sure I understand the problem, but is this what
you're trying to do?

>>>
res=[[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9],[2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2],[0,-1,-2,-3,-4,-5,-6,-7,-8,-9]]

where in reality rather than a list of 3 lists of 10 elements, res would be a
list of 2500 lists of 2000 elements each.

>>> map(lambda x: x*x, 
      map(lambda tup: reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,tup),
        [ 
          [res[i][j] for i in range(0,len(res))] 
          for j in range(0,len(res[0]))
        ]
      )
    )
[4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4]

If that's what you're trying to do.  I have no idea about whether this is
faster than other methods, although it certainly seems to me to be less clear.
If you stored your data cross-sectionally, it would be much simpler.  (Again,
if this it what you're trying to do.)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org]On
> Behalf Of Darren Dale
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 11:16 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: question on list comprehensions
> 
> 
> Roberto Antonio Ferreira De Almeida wrote:
> 
> > Darren Dale wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> I need to replace the following loop with a list comprehension:
> >> 
> >> res=[0]
> >> for i in arange(10000):
> >>  res[0]=res[0]+i
> > 
> > res[0] = (10000 * (10000-1))/2.0   ;-)
> > 
> >> In practice, res is a complex 2D numarray. For this 
> reason, the regular
> >> output of a list comprehension will not work: constructing 
> a list of
> >> every intermediate result will result in huge hits in 
> speed and memory.
> > 
> > Why do you *need* to replace the for loop with a listcomp? Could you
> > give more details about what you're doing with the complex array?
> > 
> > Roberto
> 
> 
> OK. As usual, I am having trouble clearly expressing myself. 
> Sorry about
> that. Prepare for some physics:
> 
> I am simulating diffraction from an array of particles. I 
> have to calculate
> a complex array for each particle, add up all these arrays, 
> and square the
> magnitude of the result. If I do a for loop, it takes about 
> 6-8 seconds for
> a 2000 element array added up over 250 particles. In reality, 
> I will have
> 2500 particles, or even 2500x2500 particles. 
> 
> The list comprehension takes only 1.5 seconds for 250 
> particles. Already,
> that means the time has decreased from 40 hours to 10, and 
> that time can be
> reduced further if python is not constantly requesting 
> additionaly memory
> to grow the resulting list. 
> 
> I guess that means that I would like to avoid growing the 
> list and popping
> the previous result if possible, and just over-write the 
> previous result.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

==============================================================================
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From parker at hiredatum.demon.co.uk  Sat Oct  2 15:24:19 2004
From: parker at hiredatum.demon.co.uk (Ian Parker)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 20:24:19 +0100
Subject: idiom for debug code? [1/1]
References: <y6SdnUz8sr673sHcRVn-gA@rogers.com>
	<wfmdnXvIef4v1cHcRVn-vQ@comcast.com>
	<6tadnfHqDdcg9cHcRVn-hQ@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <0DoHajVjBwXBFwhr@hiredatum.demon.co.uk>

In message <6tadnfHqDdcg9cHcRVn-hQ at rogers.com>, Dan Perl
<danperl at rogers.com> writes
>I was not thinking of actually removing code.  The analogy to C++
>preprocessing was just an example.  I am looking at something that can be
>determined at run-time, not compile-time.
>
>And you're right, I'm not really concerned about the overhead of an "if"
>because I will not use this extensively anyway.  This problem occurred to me
>when I decided to add an import for win32traceutil.  I'm looking for a way
>to have that permanently in the code and enabling/disabling it only at
>run-time.
>
>I have thought of alternatives like an environment variable or a
>configuration parameter, but I was looking for other ideas.  I thought this
>should be a common issue and that there could be an idiom for it.
>
>Dan
>
>PS: in the case of importing win32traceutil, I guess that checking the
>environment would be necessary anyway, or the import should be in a try
>statement, ignoring the exceptions.
>
>"Larry Bates" <lbates at syscononline.com> wrote in message
>news:wfmdnXvIef4v1cHcRVn-vQ at comcast.com...
>> Dan Perl wrote:
>>> Is there a mechanism or an idiom for adding code for debugging so that it
>>> can easily be removed in the production code?  I am thinking of something
>>> similar to the C/C++ preprocessor statements with which you can compile
>>> an application with the debug code or without it (the default).
>>>
>>> Dan
>> Personally I think you should consider NOT removing the debugging code.
>> It never ceases to amaze me how many times I must have a client run
>> the application with debug set so that the program logs details about
>> the running process and intermediate results.  The output logfile can
>> then be easily emailed, faxed, etc. to me so that I can determine what
>> is REALLY the problem.  The overhead of these if _debug: "type"
>> statements seems incredibly low compared to the ability to get this
>> information when needed.  Just some thoughts based on my experience
>> of the last 30+ years.
>>
>> Larry Bates
>> Syscon, Inc.
>
>

I' use the following technique.  I originally wrote it four years or so
ago, so I'm sure it could be much improved.  In fact looking at it now,
I ma deeply embarrassed to post it, and know it could be dramatically
improved both by using more modern features of Python,  by better coding
and by some comprehension of  design.

I have a utility.py module which contains my common functions and I
import this in every module, plus a wrapper for the debug function:

import utility

debug = 0

def dprint( *args):
    """
        print function toggled on or off by module debug variable
    """
    global debug
    if debug:
        apply(utility._dprint,args)


This allows me to scatter dprint functions throughout the module instead
of print statements, and enable or suppress them by setting the global
'debug', e.g.

    def func(x):
        global total
        total += x
        dprint("total is currently",total)

to get an output of something like:
    ! module.py:83 in func: total is currently 10


The relevant code from my utility.py is attached.
-------------- next part --------------
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I would welcome rewrites of this code, of course.

Regards

Ian
-- 
Ian Parker

From vincent at visualtrans.de  Thu Oct 28 04:55:16 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:55:16 +0200
Subject: Python utility convert Windows long file name into 8.3 DOS
	format
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5599.1098947598.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <4C0gd.20216$R05.13225@attbi_s53>
	<mailman.5599.1098947598.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clqc5i$l1h$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 06:47:28 GMT, Ben Kial <benkial at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>Is there a Python program to convert Windows long filename, like "c:\Program
>>Files" into the old DOS 8.3 format, like "c:\Progra~1"?
> 
> 
>>>>import win32api
>>>>win32api.GetShortPathName('D:/share/from_roadwarrior/simon/python/RandomizeScreenSaver/RandomizeScreenSaver.pyw')
> 
> 'D:/share/FROM_R~1/simon/python/RANDOM~1/RANDOM~1.PYW'
> 

Just note that GetShortPathName expects a valid and accessible path in 
your file system.

--
Vincent Wehren


From claird at lairds.us  Mon Oct  4 14:08:03 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:08:03 GMT
Subject: Python and C#
References: <10m2la510rpeq86@corp.supernews.com>
	<BL6dnev5xezS4_zcRVn-vA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <5me832-qlt.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <BL6dnev5xezS4_zcRVn-vA at comcast.com>,
Larry Bates  <lbates at syscononline.com> wrote:
> > Looking for advice on this as a course of action.  Obviously,
>> I'm not doing this for fun, but for some reasons that are
>> supported by base workaday considerations.  Will this work?
>> What are the biggest hassles in making it work?  Any
>> pitfalls?
>
>Sure this will work.  You can call COM server code from Python
>no matter what the COM server is written in.  I've written
>COM servers in Python and called from Python, VB, PowerBuilder,
>etc.  I've also called COM servers written in other languages.
>
>> 
>> If I get this to work well, next I want to make it easy for
>> users to install and run the apps.  I haven't tried to
>> package any python apps in about a year.  Which packaging
>> package is better now for this -- py2exe, McMillan's, or
>> something else?  I want the end-users with no python on
>> their Windows machine to run a simple and non-descript
>> installer and then be up and running with my app, no
>> problems.
>
>I like the combination of py2exe and Inno Setup.  py2exe
>create standalone code and Inno to create a distributable
>installer.
			.
			.
			.
'Know what *I* think'll be the biggest surprise?  'Getting the
run-time right for the C# part.  You're developing the C# server
under WinXP, right, but some users will try to run it under Win98?
*That* might be a bit of an adventure ...


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 01:23:55 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 01:23:55 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <41622FEB.1000300@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

> 
> 
> code = "print 'hello world'"
> glbls = {}
> lcls = {}
> 
> exec code, glbls, lcls
>


This is a cool language, I love code chunks!!

> 
>10. Can I call an object's method as object:method(arg) and have that 
>>translate into object.method(object, arg)
> 
> 
> class foo:
>     def goo(self, arg):
>         print self, arg
>     def bar(arg):
>         print arg
>     bar = staticmethod(bar)
> 
> a = foo()
> a.goo(arg) #will print information about the instance and argument
> a.bar(arg) #will only print information about the argument
> 

How come Python always complains when I don't include the self parameter 
in an object method?  Your code doesn't work on my interpreter.

> 
>>15. Proper Tail Call (otherwise known as Proper Tail Recursion)
> 
> 
> No, it kills tracebacks.

I know but that's a real bummer.  No way around that?
> 
> 
>>16. The ability to call a function without brackets
> 
> 
> No.
> 

So is the print statement ironed into the language and not a function?

> 
>>17. Is the Python interpreter a JIT? Does it have a bytecode?  Is it as 
>>fast as Java?
> 
yes, you can write custom import hooks.
> 

I guess I'll hit the docs with how to do this.

> 
>>20. Date persistence and serialization
> 
> 
> This can mean any one of a dozen things.
>

I'd like to store function and variables and of course objects in a form 
that can be easily read back into the program/script.

> 
> 
>>21. May modules be stored in variables, passed to and produced from 
>>functions, and so forth?
> 
> 
> Yes, though it isn't done very often.
> 

Oh really??  Exciting, I'm glad of it.  Hit the docs I must!

> 
>>22. Is the self parameter hidden from me as a programmer?  Can I 
>>hide/unhide it as I wish?
> 
> 
> It is not hidden, in fact, you get to name it...
> 
> class foo:
>     def goo(I_AM_SELF, arg):
>         pass
> 

Cool!

>>25. A fully implemented .NET counterpart (I should be able to write 
>>Python scripts for both with the same code)
> 
> 
> Check IronPython and PythonNET
> 

Not fully implemented, but I guess that will have to suffice.

> 
>>26. How easily can other languages access it and vice versa?
> 
> 
> C and C++ are easy.  There is a TCL interface.
> 
> Anything with C or C++ interfaces are arguably trivial to talk to.
> 

I guess D should work then.

> 
>>27. The option of mixing in static typing
> 
> 
> Python has no static typing.
> 

Argg!
> 
>>28. Automatic type coercion
> 
> 
> Certain kinds of things can do what is known as "type coercion" in other
> languages.  What kinds of coercion did you want to do.
> 

I'd like to be able to use a string as an integer without an explicit 
coerion on my part for example.

> 
>>29. Is Python designed in such a way that I may merely "plugin" a 
>>C/C++/Java/D module which will then allow for mixing their syntax and 
>>perhaps even access to their facilities within Python?
> 
> 
> You can call C/C++ functions in Python (a large portion of the standard
> library is implemented in C).
> 
> Jython allows nearly transparent use of Python and Java.
> 
> You don't get other language syntaxes, generally.
> 
> 
>>30. Messaging syntax such as : [myColor setRed:0.0 green:0.5 blue:1.0] 
>>or [dog bring:paper to:me] and [[myAunt phone] setTo:[myUncle phone]] 
>><--- Nested messages and [dog perform:sel_get_uid("bark")] which is the 
>>same as [dog bark]
> 
> 
> We don't do messaging syntax.  Combining messaging and object-oriented
> syntax would make for an ugly language.

Ugly?  I disagree, but hey, what do I know?  Objective-C is OOP and 
messaging is awesome.  I love Python though, a hybrid between the two 
would be great.

> 
> 
>>31. Concepts of Protocols (whereby one may organize related methods into 
>>groups and check whether a particular object implements the methods 
>>within this protocol), or Interfaces similar to those in Java whereby 
>>classes or objects which implement the interface (sign the contract) 
>>must implement the methods and attributes as specified in the interface, 
>>and/or programming by contract such as in Eiffel (see: 
>>http://www.devhood.com/tutorials/tutorial_details.aspx?tutorial_id=595)
> 
> 
> No.  Test-driven development is the norm in Python.
> 

That is quite a shame, no modules for this either huh?

>>34. In pure Python, can I change and add new constructs to the Python 
>>syntax?
> 
> 
> Yes, if you are willing to work for it.
> 

I expect the docs will tell me how to do this.

> 
>>35. May I modify the garbage collector?
> 
> 
> If you really want, though it already works fine.
> 

Oh, I just like to play with garbage collectors.  It's a kind of fettish 
of mine.

> 
>>37. Dynamic dispatch
> 
> 
> This could mean a few different things.
> 

Like virtual functions in C++


>>41. How easy is it to port my Python code to C/C++/C# or Java?
> 
> 
> Depends on how experienced you are with those languages.
> 

What I actually meant was are there any facilities (built-in or modules) 
which allow for automatic compilation to C/C++/C#/D.  For example, 
particular Smalltalk distros compile to C as does ObjC.

> 
>>42. The ability to assign a method(s) to a collection/group of objects 
>>[with a particular signature i.e.]
> 
> 
> No.
> 

That's no good.  I wonder if I could implement this myself with minimum 
pain.

> 
>>43. Embedding variables in strings like: print "Hello, World. Time: 
>>#{Time.now}"
> 
> 
> t = time.asctime()
> print "Hello World %(t)s"%{'t':t}
> print "Hello World %(t)s"%locals()
> 

That is messy, exactly why I wanted the kind of clear embedding I gave 
an example for.  Oh well.
> 
>>44. Case or Switch statements with functionality as such:
>>case score
>>when 0...40
>>   puts "Horrible!"
>>when 40...60
>>   puts "Poor"
>>when 60...80
>>   puts "You can do better!"
>>when 80...95
>>   puts "Now that's acceptable"
>>when 95..100
>>   puts "That the best you can do?  j/k"
>>else
>>   puts "Didn't take the test?"
>>end
> 
> 
> No.
> 

Really?  Hmmmm, does anyone know of a bridge between Python and Ruby?

----------------

Thanks Josiah.  I'm perusing the docs right now.


From pcooke at philc.net  Tue Oct 19 01:49:35 2004
From: pcooke at philc.net (PhilC)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:49:35 -0400
Subject: Latest PIL installer failed to install.
References: <5g68n0hgiiq80smabt3rdcn7j6ruv6rl6v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <eja9n01tkgfv8nrgrpvpnt5eqe9inu0r6h@4ax.com>

Its OK I got it :)

Manually edited the registry.
Needs the full path.

Well DUH!!! I hear you say.

Its all a learning process :))

PhilC



From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Oct 28 14:50:12 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:50:12 GMT
Subject: Data::Dumper for Python
References: <opsgkj8cih074qab@news.singnet.com.sg>
	<slrnco2d8k.kgh.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.28.21.36.02.724653@jerf.org>

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:06:12 +0000, Dave Benjamin wrote:

> Take a look at the "pprint" module. Also, it's worth noting that the Python
> interpreter prints representations of data structures all the time, no
> library required:

However, Python tries ***much*** less hard to make those representations
actually evaluate back to equivalent objects. Based on my experiences but
with no particular knowledge of the history of the two languages in this
regard, this is because Python makes many manipulations easy that are hard
to borderline impossible in Perl, and it is much harder to create such
representations in general.

As a result, repr of any but the most base classes is often used more
for "debugging style" info, and str for a simple identification. It is not
safe in general to eval(repr(obj)) and expect anything but a Syntax Error.

Python shuffles that task off to the Pickle module, which is what you'd
want to look up in the docs. That splits human representation off from
computer-reproducable representation, and I believe overall this is
superior; the two are not the same. In addition, we then get the Pickle
protocol extensions which are frequently quite handy, especially when
dealing with weakrefs.


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Wed Oct 27 11:01:09 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (Vincent Wehren)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:01:09 +0200
Subject: look further down sys.path for extension module
Message-ID: <clod7k$m55$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Hi,

Is it possible to have Python look further down sys.path for a C
extension module when an ImportError is raised because of the "dynamic
module not implementing init function"?

The thing is, I have a case where the cwd of an application that embedds
the Python interpreter needs to be inserted into sys.path at index. For
the windows version there is a zlib.dll in the app's directory, which -
naturally - gets "import precedence" over zlib.pyd from the DLLs
directory. For the time being, I place copy zlib.pyd into he app's
directory to solve the problem, but it would be nice if there was a way
to avoid having to do this.


Any thoughts much appreciated.
--
Vincent Wehren




From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 11:05:17 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:05:17 -0300
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
In-Reply-To: <1gl8lg2.axf8gd9hwlbmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8dkd.1mk43di1xi6v0dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4418.1097061910.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8lg2.axf8gd9hwlbmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904100608058b60c8b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:06:23 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Urk.  Ahem, I mean, interesting solution.  I _think_ it poses certain,
> ahem, problems, such as infinite recursion if a call to re_execute is in
> the same code object as that where the 'class MyClass' is, for example
> -- because basically you ARE re-executing the whole kaboodle.  You're
> not just re-executing the 'class' statement, but everything that comes
> before or after it in the same containing codeobject.  Your tests in an
> interactive interpreter are tricky that way, because in that special
> environment a code object is a tiny little thing.  But stick this into a
> module and place a dis.dis(dct['my_code']) in the metaclass's __new__
> and you'll see that basically MyClass.re_execute isn't very different
> from a reload of the module.  Isn't that a _bit_ too much in general?

(repeating to myself: dis is your friend. dis is your friend).

Well, it seems that I'm running out of options. I've checked dis, and
done a few more tests. I found a way to find the correct code object
for the _body_ of the class statement (or at least I think so), but
this does not solve the problem, as it will be shown below:

-------------
import inspect
import dis
import time
import types

class Meta(type):
    def __new__(klass, name, bases, dct):
        caller = inspect.stack(0)[1]
        caller_code     = caller[0].f_code
        caller_filename = caller[1]
        caller_lineno   = caller[2]
        print "Caller info: ", caller_filename, caller_lineno, caller_code
        print dis.dis(caller[0].f_code)
        for code in caller_code.co_consts:
            if isinstance(code, types.CodeType):
                if (code.co_filename == caller_filename) and \
                   (code.co_firstlineno == caller_lineno):
                    print "found!", code.co_name
                    dct['my_code'] = code
        return type(name, bases, dct)

class MyClass(object):
    __metaclass__ = Meta
    creation_time = time.ctime()
    print "I'm inside my class definition!"
    def re_execute(klass):
        exec klass.my_code
        return MyClass
    re_execute = classmethod(re_execute)
-------------

The code checks the filename and the line number to find the correct
code object. It could also check the class name, just to make sure
that everything matches. It isn't needed, as far as I know. But the
problem is that the code block that is found refers to the class
_body_ only. Checking dis.dis() helps to understand it:

 27          64 LOAD_CONST               4 ('MyClass')
             67 BUILD_TUPLE              0
             70 LOAD_CONST               5 (<code object MyClass at
01209E60, file "c:\work\help-on-c-l-py\re_exec_class.py", line 27>)
             73 MAKE_FUNCTION            0
             76 CALL_FUNCTION            0
             79 BUILD_CLASS         
             80 STORE_NAME               7 (MyClass)

There is not a single code block that does all the tasks related to
the class statement, and only it. In fact, there are two different
code objects to choose from, and neither really solves the problem.
One is the module object; as you've pointed out, it's too generic and
executes too much stuff, not just the class statement. The other one
is the <code object MyClass at 01209E60> referred to in the dis()
output above, that is the _body_ of the class statement. Calling it
doesn't call the metaclass, and neither does the name binding 'magic':

>>> exec MyClass.my_code
I'm inside my class definition!
# it does not print any of the debug messages in the metaclass, and
it's obvious why

It also doesn't take into account that the class may have base
classes. For example, changing the statement to 'class
MyClass(object)', the compiled code looks like this:

 27          64 LOAD_CONST               4 ('MyClass')
             67 LOAD_NAME                7 (object)
             70 BUILD_TUPLE              1

>From this point, few options are left. What I need to execute is in
fact a part of the module code object -- just one line of it, that's
the code that wraps the entire class statement. Besides giving up
(which is a reasonable option, given the constraints), what is left
are some horrible hacks. (I'm don't feel like discussing it here; it's
like Mordor Black Speech, if shall not be uttered in a public forum
:-).

BTW, the two code objects represent exactly the two alternative
solutions that can be done using only pure Python code:

1) reload the entire module (which is nearly equivalent to calling the
module code object, with the difference that it doesn't reload and
recompile the actual source code)

2) enclose the class statement inside a def, and run the def to obtain
the class template:

def BuildTemplate(<template parameters>):
    class MyTemplate(...):
        ...
    return MyTemplate

For my application, I'm tending towards (2), because it allows for a
better modularization of the code. But I'm sorry, in a way, because it
breaks the expect semantics in a way -- it's a function that returns a
class. It's valid, but some may regard it as 'ugly' and 'unpythonic'.

> > 3) I thought that the same technique could be made to work without a
> > metaclass, but I couldn't make it work. I haven't invested much time
> > to understand why -- it just works as implemented above. (It seems
> > that it does not bind correctly to the original name as it does if you
> > use the metaclass)
> 
> It appears to me, but I haven't tested this, that putting the inspect
> introspection in the classbody itself should be a sounder technique, as
> it should be able to find itself and stash itself away more reliably
> than just based on name (which is the best the metaclass can do).  The
> name binding issue is separate, however.

I've tried it yesterday, and it won't work, for some still unknown
reason. I could find the code object, but when I ran it, it would not
bind to the name in the same way as the metaclass would do. But it
doesn't matter at this point.
 
> > [1] Think about it as a templating mechanism, similar to the C++ one,
> > but for Python; this mechanism generates new classes that can be
> > instantiated as many times as needed. It's not the same thing as to
> > customize a instance during its initialization.
> 
> I agree, there's one metalevel of difference between instantiating a
> class to make an instance, and instantiating a metaclass to make a
> class.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From djomilne at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  5 22:34:45 2004
From: djomilne at hotmail.com (David Milne)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:34:45 +0900
Subject: AI Mind (Was: Sound capture)
References: <ceeeqr$rgi$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu> <410ad3d1@news.victoria.tc.ca>
	<cjuesr$gjb$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <416357d5$1_5@127.0.0.1>

Yes I hear that the AI people after more than half a century have discovered
that doing Chess is "easy"and that tying your shoe laces, cutting a slice of
bread or picking a pretty flower is very very "hard".

A touch typer's skills "reside" in the fingers. On a practical level the
mind seems to have an intimite intertwining with the body at many levels.

Yea, I think that a project for a disembodied mind developed as a plug-in
for an uminded body has near zero prospects outside a very "toy world":-(


"Chris Malcolm" <cam at holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:cjuesr$gjb$1 at scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
> uj797 at victoria.tc.ca (Arthur T. Murray) writes:
>
> >"Chris S." writes on Fri, 30 Jul 2004:
>
> >The sensorium is where we amateur mind-makers count on
> >help from the amateur robot-makers. They want a mind
> >for their robots; we want robots for our AI to live in.
>
> Modularly separating the design for mind and body in this way supposes
> a) that it is possible, i.e., mind design does not lie athwart body
> and brain design, and b), given that supposition, that the assumptions
> you have made about the nature of the interface are workable.
>
> A growing number of roboticists, AI researchers, and philosophers of
> mind argue that mind design *does* lie athwart brain and body
> design. If they're right your project is doomed.
> --
> Chris Malcolm cam at infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
> IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
> [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
>




From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Oct 24 06:36:33 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:36:33 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Problem
References: <10nllajevdji2ba@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <clg0if$ac5$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Maboroshi wrote:

> Why when I use the sticky command with the grid layout manager won't my
> Listbox expand it stays in the center maybe I am missing something but
> from every tutorial I see it says to do it this way
> 
> I am running Python2.3.4 on winxp I haven't tried it on linux yet
> 
> Any Ideas are appreciated
> 
> Let me know if I am not being clear enough
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> 
> class App(Frame):
>      def __init__(self, master=None):
>          Frame.__init__(self, master)

Remove

>          self.grid()

This means you have an additional grid containing a single control (the
Frame). Use a packer instead and make sure it consumes any extra space:
           
           self.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=True)

>          self.createWidgets()
> 
>      def createWidgets(self):
>          self.listbox = Listbox(self)
> # RIGHT HERE THIS WON'T EXPAND TO FILL
>          self.listbox.grid(row=0, column=0, rowspan=3, sticky=N+E+S+W)

You can configure the cell (0, 0) to consume any extra space:

           self.rowconfigure(0, weight=1)
           self.columnconfigure(0, weight=1)

> 
>          self.connect = Button(self, text="Connect")
>          self.connect.grid(row=0, column=1)
>          self.execute = Button(self, text="Execute")
>          self.execute.grid(row=1, column=1)
>          self.disconnect = Button(self, text="Disconnect")
>          self.disconnect.grid(row=2, column=1)
> 
>          self.entry = Entry(self)
>          self.entry.grid(row=3, column=0, columnspan=2, sticky=E+W)
> 
> 
> app = App()
> app.master.title("MySQL DB Project")
> app.master.minsize(400, 300)
> app.mainloop()

The Entry and Listbox widgets should grow now as expected. To distribute the
Buttons smoothly, you can either set the weight of columns 1 and 2 or put
all three of them in an extra Frame (which I would prefer).

Peter


From egbert.list at hccnet.nl  Sat Oct  9 06:57:58 2004
From: egbert.list at hccnet.nl (Egbert Bouwman)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:57:58 +0200
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
In-Reply-To: <1glc6g0.1ner1219acqffN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glc6g0.1ner1219acqffN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041009105758.GA1435@mirk.lan>

On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 11:59:32AM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> option 3, a bit cutesy:
> 
> for first_line in thefile: break
> for line in thefile: ...
> 
> (again, in 2.2 you'll need some foo=iter(thefile)).
> 
This technique depends in the file being positioned at line 2,
after the break.

However, In the Nutshell book, page 191, you write:
> Interrupting such a loop prematurely (e.g. with break)
> leaves the file's current position with an arbitrary value.

So the information about the current position is useless.

Do I discover a contradiction ?
egbert
-- 
Egbert Bouwman - Keizersgracht 197 II - 1016 DS  Amsterdam - 020 6257991
========================================================================


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Tue Oct 26 11:39:38 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:39:38 +0100
Subject: printing HTML or PDF from Python
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B60@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Donnal Walter]
| We want to be able to print HTML or PDF files to a given printer from 
| Python in a kind of batch mode (without opening a preview window or 
| printer dialog for each file). 

[... snip broad requirements to print usefully under Windows ...]

Have a look at this for a clue or two: 

http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/win32_how_do_i/print.html

If it doesn't help, give us a shout. 
There are several ways of doing this kind of thing.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
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From russblau at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 12 17:16:45 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:16:45 -0400
Subject: proposition for syntax for initialisation of
	multidimensionallists
References: <mailman.4775.1097615531.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2t2vuuF1psfemU1@uni-berlin.de>

"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote in message
news:mailman.4775.1097615531.5135.python-list at python.org...
>
> You don't need list comprehensions::
>
> >>> [[[0] * 4] * 3] * 2
> [[[0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0]], [[0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0],
> [0, 0, 0, 0]]]
>

Lists are mutable...  ;-)

>>> x = [[[0] * 4] * 3] * 2
>>> x[0][1][2] = "foo!"
>>> x
[[[0, 0, 'foo!', 0], [0, 0, 'foo!', 0], [0, 0, 'foo!', 0]], [[0, 0, 'foo!',
0], [0, 0, 'foo!', 0], [0, 0, 'foo!', 0]]]

-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 14 21:34:00 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 01:34:00 GMT
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
References: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gljwcn.hu8qmfo9di8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416E15CA.9680C6A3@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gln4dz.eajljp1mwfqx3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416ec33b.258821255@news.oz.net>
	<mailman.4977.1097798161.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416f261c.284134704@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:55:59 +1100, Andrew Durdin <adurdin at gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:27:13 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>> 
>> BTW, I experimented a little further with NotImplemented and the gt,cmp,coerce
>> methods in a base class vs derived and it looks like the search prefers
>> a base class gt or cmp over a derived version of the next alternative.
>
>Isn't this just a side-effect of the attribute lookup order? When
>looking for __gt__, python'll check the class, then go through the
>base classes, and only return AttributeError if it's not found in the
>class or any of its bases; after which it tries __cmp__ etc.
>
>Am I understanding this correctly?
I think so, yes. I was just trying to point out that it might not be
the really logical thing to do. I.e., if a programmer supplies a __cmp__
method in his derived class, why would he do that if he didn't expect it
to be used for comparisons with his special kind of instances? Should he
have to know that __gt__ in a base class will preempt his intent, as e.g.
in the case of 2 < derived_instance?

I think, as you say, it's a side-effect of attribute lookup order, but
IWT that semantics should demand looking for all alternatives before going
to the next base, and then doing the same at each stage. That's probably
a pain to implement though ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From http  Tue Oct  5 15:08:25 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 12:08:25 -0700
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted Data
	Chunk Efficiently
References: <ba1e306f.0410050212.3b592313@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7x8yalx9sm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine) writes:
> What can I do instead? What data structure allows you to access
> nth..n+10th data from the sorted list in a constant time?

If you're building a real application you probably should use an SQL
database that handles all the concurrency issues, etc. as well as the
problem you're describing.  If you're asking out of theoretical
interest (a homework problem?), then think in terms of secondary
indexes.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Oct  5 19:28:52 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:28:52 -0700
Subject: Cross-tabulation module in Python
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F32@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Ajith Prasad wrote:
> Sorry. But I could not locate the URL address that you cited.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Brewer [mailto:fumanchu at amor.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 5:39 AM
> To: Ajith Prasad (OFN); python-list at python.org
> Subject: RE: Cross-tabulation module in Python
> 
> Ajith Prasad wrote:
> > Anyone knows of a reference to a statistical cross-tabulation module
> > in Python? Thanks in advance.
> 
> If I understand you correctly, that shouldn't be hard to 
> write yourself.
> You can see an example of mine at
> svn://casadeamor.com/dejavu/trunk/analysis.py

It's a URL to a Subversion repository. Do you have a subversion client?
http://subversion.tigris.org

But...just in case you don't, I copied the current version of the module
to http://www.aminus.org/rbre/python/analysis.py


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Oct  4 19:04:50 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:04:50 GMT
Subject: Reclaiming (lots of) memory
In-Reply-To: <87zn324554.fsf@thomas.local>
References: <87lleo6hva.fsf@thomas.local>
	<slrncm281h.cs.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<87zn324554.fsf@thomas.local>
Message-ID: <mGk8d.2779$M05.516@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Thomas Rast wrote:
> I've implemented it that way now.  Using a pipe to transfer the data
> to the dbm appears to essentially double the I/O overhead and is very
> inefficient.
    ...
> Well, can't blame Python if you'd need black magic even in C ;-)

You could also try using shared memory.  There's the raw
layer, like http://0pointer.de/lennart/projects/libshbuf/
or a higher layer like POSH ( http://poshmodule.sourceforge.net/ ).

I've used neither.  The letter only works on Intel (and
perhaps only Linux) because it does locking with some inline
asm.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 25 14:57:01 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:57:01 -0400
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> I guess I could just tell py2exe to also include the .py files
> in the install directory.  There's still the problem of the
> time/cost required to support them.
> 
>>But as long as you don't mind people seeing, redistributing,
>>and modifying your source,
> 
> 
> The problem is the time spent answering questions and helping
> the people who have the source code.

Whatever gave you the idea you are obligated to provide support?!

-Peter


From dan.gass at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 13:31:13 2004
From: dan.gass at gmail.com (Dan Gass)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 10:31:13 -0700
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc15ba28.0410180931.3076d8e1@posting.google.com>

Mike,

Ditto on "I got one too".  I wrote a configuration module that is more
powerful than any I've seen to date, yet it has a simple interface and
simple configuration file syntax.  In particular it handles arbitrary
levels of hierarchical organizations of settings quite nicely.  Its
drawback (and the reason it would probably never make it into the
standard python distribution) is that it has a security hole.  The
configuration file format is Python (the configuration module just
executes it rather than parses it).

That said, you may want to look at it for ideas.  I'd be happy to
participate in discussions.

Good Luck,
Dan Gass


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 22 17:30:37 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:30:37 -0700
Subject: Email attachments
In-Reply-To: <20041022164720.07907.00001788@mb-m24.aol.com>
References: <20041022164720.07907.00001788@mb-m24.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20041022142234.0AE9.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited) wrote:
> 
> Is there a way I can put a message together without having to download any
> attachments there may be at the same time.  I'm not having any problems dealing
> with attachments, but the way I'm doing things makes me download the complete
> message first, attachements and all:
> mail = []
> for j in M.retr(i)[1]:
>     mail.append(j.rstrip())
> inMail = email.message_from_string('\r\n'.join(mail))
> 
> I don't have a real problem per se with this, it's just that I would just as
> soon not download the attachments as well at first.  Also I'm wondering, are my
> attachments potentially dangerous at the state when I first get them as part of
> the email, or are they not potentially dangerous until I binary write that part
> of the message into a file(that's how I'm dealing with attachments, if I want
> to keep an attachment in the already downloaded complete email, I just write it
> to a file.


On POP3 mail servers, there are but two parts of the message; the header
and body.  Some servers support the TOP command, which is used like so:
TOP <message> <bodylines>

With that command, you can get the headers and <bodylines> number of
lines from the body of the email message, on servers that support it.


Now, understand that in the case of POP3, the server does not understand
what you think of as an attachment.  It is all just the body of the
email (likely encoded with base64), separated with section delimiters.

Also understand that the ordering of these "attachments" can be
arbitrary (include the binary attachment, then the plain text email,
then the html email), so you may need to download the entire email to
get the plain text message body.

 - Josiah



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 11:21:52 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:21:52 +0200
Subject: How to determine if a file is busy?
References: <c89d662c.0410080246.52ed9407@posting.google.com>
	<ck5uiv$hhj$1@online.de> <1glcbu7.po1w0e8mxyl6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4572.1097237826.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glcgbr.qld3ehfedxarN%aleaxit@yahoo.com> <ck66a1$qnk$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <1glcl0x.5ikgm1154alhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Benjamin Niemann <b.niemann at betternet.de> wrote:
   ...
> The AppleScript could rename the .new file to .[timestamp], producing a
> new file for each iteration. The Python script would consume & delete all
> .[timestamp] files in lexical order, but must ignore the .new file if it
> happens to be there.

Sounds good to me, placing minimal demands on the AppleScript's
abilities (surely getting a timestamp and doing a rename is well within
its powers!) _and_ on the filesystem used for communication (surely this
small subset of "atomicity of renames" -- which appears to be the only
issue here -- can be guaranteed even by SMB).


Alex


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Mon Oct 18 18:10:18 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:10:18 +1000 (EST)
Subject: execvp() on Solaris
In-Reply-To: <f197302b.0410180514.4c38809b@posting.google.com>
References: <f197302b.0410180514.4c38809b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041019075804.K98183@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, mikeSpindler wrote:

> resolve the errors wrt execvp().  It's apparently not syntax, but I
> could be wrong.  Any other thoughts on how to get execvp() working
> and/or how to cat a file in a new window without bringing tkinter into
> the discussion?
>
> My example:
>   os.system("xterm -geometry 120x20 -e \"tail -f ./logs/DATAFILE\"&")

AFAICS, this should be
    os.system('xterm -geometry 120x20 -e \"tail -f ./logs/DATAFILE\"&')

But os.system() is not os.execvp()...

You don't elucidate what your problems with execvp() are..., but if what
you have works on Linux but not Solaris I'd have to wonder about the
environment setup for the account:-
 - path?
 - library path (for X11 libs)?
 - different shell?

With execvp(), the shell shouldn't be involved unless you explicitly
execute it so you won't get shell variable expansion or asynchronous
execution (the '&' above).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen ACT 2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia


From darren at coolpink.net  Fri Oct  1 10:38:00 2004
From: darren at coolpink.net (darren at coolpink.net)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 14:38:00 -0000
Subject: ANN: PyOpenOffice 0.2 released
Message-ID: <20041001143800.7147.qmail@ws2.coolpink.net>

Sorry, but I am out of the office on Monday 27th September until Monday 11th October 2004.

I will respond to your e-mail when I return

If you need technical support please contact simonh at coolpink.net or mazen at coolpink.net

For any other enquiries please call the office on (0113) 272 3191 

Thanks for your e-mail.




From jbellis at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 11:55:29 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan  Ellis)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 08:55:29 -0700
Subject: By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Roger Irwin wrote:
> Riccardo Rossi wrote:
>
> > Hi all!
> >
> > How does Python pass arguments to a function? By value or by
reference?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Riccardo Rossi.
> >
> >
> By reference to an object....See the python tutorial.

Wrong.  Here is the difference between pass by reference and pass by
value to CS types:

>>> def foo(a): a = 1
...
>>> i = 10
>>> foo(i)
>>> print i

With pass-by-reference, i would now be 1.  However, since python is
pass-by-value, it remains 10.

-Jonathan



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 10:25:03 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:25:03 +0200
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5152.1098149022.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glwdd4.s05uuadrav97N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5165.1098190239.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glwvue.duncd631bz5oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dima Dorfman <null at trit.org> wrote:
   ...
> >     a, b, c, *d = e
> 
> Both of these are intuitive to me. I'm generally in favor of expanding
> the use of '*' to mean aggregation in this manner, but someone else is
> gonna have to organize the crusade if they want one.

It will take an able and subtle spokesman, for it IS currently out of
favour (and the prospect of no language changes in 2.4->2.5, just like
we had none in 2.2->2.3, appears quite possible).


> > where d gets (an iterator for) 'the rest of e' after the first three
> > items of e are unpacked to a, b, and c.
> 
> FWIW, the implementation for the unpacking case is mostly straight-
> forward (I did one a while back). The only caveat is what to do with
> *d. You suggest storing an iterator for the rest of e, but this is
> unuseful if e is a real sequence, like a tuple. It's easy enough to
> special-case tuples and lists, but what about other user-defined
> types? Maybe slice off the rest? Real iterators (iter(x) is x) would
> have to be treated specially in any case.

I hate, detest, and abhor specialcasing anything.  "Special cases are
not special enough to break the rules".  'filter' (which specialcases
some kinds of sequences, while returning a list for all others) is a
good example of the kind of thing I believe should be avoided.

Leaving d as an iterator over the rest of e is something that is
extremely simple to explain and implement.  Explaning that 'd is a list,
string or tuple if that's the type of e; otherwise, if e supplies
__getitem__ AND that getitem accepts a slice object with None values for
stop and step, or alternatively if e supplies a __getslice__ method
that's callable with None as the stop argument, then d is e[3:]; in
other cases, d is an iterator over the rest of e' is just the kind of
thing that sends shivers through every fiber of my being.  Maybe it's
because I've had to write enough of those GD 'caveats' in the Nutshell,
enough to show me that there are already too many special cases... I
want to _get rid_ of the existing ones (once backwards compatibility can
be broken), definitely *NOT* add more 'convenient' ones...!!!-)

Saving a once-in-a-blue-moon 'd = list(d)' followup statement, or the
like, is just not worth this kind of aggravation, IMHO.


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 04:16:24 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:16:24 +0200
Subject: how come .insert() don't work
References: <41801753$0$62043$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<41801852$0$189$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<41803447$0$41713$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<qnkacu7qzbh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<4180a179$0$76514$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<4180a3e5$0$3624$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <1gmd2nb.1yywdv711i74qtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Eric Brunel <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote:
    ...
> >         self.html = Menu(self.menubar, tearoff=0)
> >         self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.tekst_in('p'))
> 
> You're using your tekst_in method before setting the attribute self.tekst, so
> when the method code is executed, there is actully no attribute named tekst;
> hence the Attribute error.

Perfectly true.

> Move the previous line after the self.tekst.pack(...) line and everything
> should be fine.

Nope.  I guess it won't be, because I suspect the OP doesn't actually
mean to insert a 'p' during the __init__ while adding a command of None.

I guess what he means is that, when that menuentry is selected, then and
only then does a 'p' get inserted.  But what he's SAYING is to call the
method right then and there, not set it as a callback as I guess he
means to do.

I think that, to make everything fine, what he needs to do is, rather,
something like:

      ..., command=lambda:self.tekst_in('p'))

For the OP (as I think Eric knows this): 'command' must be set to a
CALLABLE, something Tkinter WILL call without arguments later when
needed; you're setting it to the RESULT of a call that you're doing
yourself, right then and there (and that result is None).  Prepending a
'lambda:' (an unfortunately murky keyword) makes and binds to command a
no-arguments callable, as needed.

It is, of course, very unlikely that method 'self.tekst_in' only ever
needs to be called with that one argument, 'p', or only ever needs to be
bound that way.  If you need to bind callables that will call 'p' with
each of a range of arguments, as would usually be the case, you're
better off forgetting lambda and using closures instead.  Say that,
besides 'p', you also want commands 'q', 'r', 's', 't'.  Then, do:

      self.html = Menu(self.menubar, tearoff=0)
      def make_command(x):
          def callable(): self.tekst_in(x)
          return callable
      for x in 'pqrst':
          self.html.add_command(label=x, command=make_callable(x))


Alex
 


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 11:46:31 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 15:46:31 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-25, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
>> in site-packages) in an application.
>
> I'd say everything that uses a GPL'd module is derived work
> and must also be GPL'd. It doesn't matter how you distribute
> it.

So my application code must be GPL'd even if I never distribute
the module?  The mere act of inserting the line 

"import someGPLdmodule"

Makes my _source_code_ a derived work, and therefore must be
GPL'd?  That just doesn't sound right.

> If the module is under the LGPL you could use it in a closed
> source app but must make available any changes to the original
> module.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  TAILFINS!!...click...
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From holbertr at dma.org  Wed Oct 27 15:27:27 2004
From: holbertr at dma.org (Rick Holbert)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:27:27 -0400
Subject: String to Hex
References: <6f402501.0410270242.521c6ab2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <closr5$4vs$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

The following look like they will work on Python 2.3.4:

long(float('-0x55aff8080000'))
int(float('-0x55aff8080000'))
eval('-0x55aff8080000')

Some programmers frown upon the use of eval(), so use it at your own risk.

Comments?

Rick

Michael Foord wrote:

> How do you safely turn an arbitrarily long signed hex string into a
> long integer ?
> e.g. -0x55aff8080000
> 
> When treating them as hex literals I'm getting future warnings that
> from 2.4 hex values greater than sys.maxint will always return
> positive values. I've had to treat them as strings and write a
> function to turn them into longs a character at a time ! I couldn't
> find a built in function that would do this for me.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Fuzzy
> 
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html



From klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de  Wed Oct  6 03:41:22 2004
From: klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de (Klaus Neuner)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 00:41:22 -0700
Subject: re bug
References: <3e96ebd7.0410050057.29a15174@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3e96ebd7.0410052341.113f75c5@posting.google.com>

Thanks to you all. I will try to answer some of the questions in your
answers.

(Michael Hoffman:)

> It might help if you told us what this is supposed to do in real terms...

I invented a kind of linguistic metalanguage. My program is an
interpreter for this language. It translates statements of the
linguistic metalanguage into cascades of transducers. Therefore, I
cannot answer questions like the following one:

(Thomas Rast:)

>   (?:                 # why a group?

There is a group, because the translation algorithm has introduced it.
It is hard to tell why the algorithm has decided to do so. Maybe the
group doesn't make sense here, but I think it will make sense in some
similar case. Even if I re-read all of my program now in order to
re-understand my translation algorithm, it would not make much sense
to try to explain why I designed it that way and not another. I would
need dozens of pages for this.

I have been testing my program now since months and on gigabytes of
data. It has not failed for a long time. It did never produce
unwellformed regular expressions. I was so naive to think that it
would be sufficient to make sure that all regular expressions be
wellformed. (Althoug I was also concerned with efficiency issues, of
course.) Then I saw that wellformedness was not sufficient and I was
afraid that I would have to change my algorithm.

Luckily, I may safely assume that any pair of a regex and a string
such that the regex cannot be matched on the string in a few seconds,
is a case that can be disregarded. Therefore the signal-module
solution is perfect for me.

(Gustavo Niemeyer:)

> Btw, the only reason that the OP's expression didn't got stuck
> in the first two test cases is because the expression matched.

I don't really understand what you mean. You can easily change str3
such that rx matches. Nevertheless, you will have to wait a long time
to get a result.


From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Thu Oct  7 12:21:42 2004
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:21:42 +0200
Subject: Ctypes error
Message-ID: <ck3qg3$cs6$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

I'm using ctypes v 0.9.1 on linux for the first time.

Then I try to use create_unicode_buffer(), I receive this error:

File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ctypes/__init__.py", line 74, in 
create_unicode_buffer
     buftype = c_wchar * init
NameError: global name 'c_wchar' is not defined

In __init__ file I see that at line:
208 if _os.name == "nt":
214  class c_wchar(_SimpleCData):

This class if only for "nt" ?

Thanks,
Michele Petrazzo


From grante at visi.com  Sat Oct 30 16:19:55 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 20:19:55 GMT
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4183f76a$0$33061$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-30, Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:

> another Perl/Python question: the subject says it all.

Python 1.5.2.

> Is Python taking a similar step (-> Python 3) some time in the near future?

Python took that step 10 years ago.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  So this is what it
                                  at               feels like to be potato
                               visi.com            salad


From klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de  Tue Oct  5 04:34:08 2004
From: klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de (Klaus Neuner)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 01:34:08 -0700
Subject: using threads with for-loops
References: <3e96ebd7.0409280711.42ef328b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3e96ebd7.0410050034.4bcc11c3@posting.google.com>

Thaks to all who participated in this thread.

Klaus


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct  8 07:28:04 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:28:04 +0200
Subject: Country specific date format
References: <vrrcm0dn0f9pom05a1tefjcr4hpgdcg7o0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ck5tk3$jfn$02$2@news.t-online.com>

Franz Steinhaeusler wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> with following function, i get a human readable date/time format.
> 
> mtime = time.strftime(self.timeformat ,time.localtime(st.st_mtime))
> 
> However is there a simple solution to get a country specific format:
> for example
> 10/08/2004
> 
> and for German:
> 08.10.2004
> 
> I looked in locale class, but I didn't get more wise.

You didn't look properly:

>>> locale.nl_langinfo(locale.D_FMT)
'%m/%d/%y'
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'de_DE')
>>> locale.nl_langinfo(locale.D_FMT)
'%d.%m.%Y'


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 03:24:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:24:44 +0200
Subject: help me
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>
	<3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>
	<mailman.4646.1097373842.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<hZidnVmZ96NBOfXcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
	<4168A974.7010405@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4654.1097378388.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tZ1ad.8030$UP1.7643@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1glgtws.h0cue41k8wrnxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

> dataangel wrote:
> > Well, I remember looking up the exec keyword and it saying executes a
> > string. Thus, it seemed like the normal way to execute a string, lol.
> 
> But why did that seem like it should be the normal way
> to do variable assignment to global?
> 
> BTW, locals() doesn't work like you want in part because
> that prevents a performance optimization where local
> variable lookups are done in O(1) time as an offset
> into a fixed size table.  I suppose it would be possible
> to have locals() be able to manipulate that table behind
> the scenes, but then that would be complicated and complex.

Very -- and for no good purpose, because just about every beginner's
desire to "assign variables with names determined at runtime", once
analyzed in a bit more depth, turns out to be susceptible of some far
preferable approach (9 out of 10 involving some dict...).

BTW, any function incuding an 'exec' statement has the optimization you
mentioned turned off -- thus the whole function runs dog-slow...


Alex


From marcus at deepfort.com  Sun Oct 24 22:47:36 2004
From: marcus at deepfort.com (marcus at deepfort.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 03:47:36 +0100
Subject: Fedora 1 and Eric3
In-Reply-To: <clfgq2$5hs$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
References: <cldm39$qo7$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <clfgq2$5hs$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <417C6948.7050104@deepfort.com>

Bats wrote:

>Bats had this to say:
>
>  
>
>>Has anyone here managed to install Eric (Python GUI) on Fedora Core 1?
>>I have had no end of sh*t from qscintilla right on up. It seems I have to
>>jump through an endless series of hoops in a certain order to get to the
>>end.
>>
>>Any step-by-step kinda help?
>>
>>*:*
>>    
>>
>Ah well.... no feedback.
>  
>
I know there are eric deb packages out there that pull everything down
in one fell swoop, so maybe it's time to get apt/yumming or whatever fc
calls it :-)

apt-get install eric

Personally I only discovered that as a matter of curiosity when I saw
eric in a repository and tried it to see the difference - having
installed it (and every dependency) from tarballs previously, used it
for a while, and sadly removed it. It's clearly an excellent piece of
software, but I just had something else that did each task I wanted -
usually better.

Besides which, once you've got your IDE/debugger sorted out, if you're
working in the python/Qt that eric offers, even the GUI form design for
python/Qt can be done in a *much* better, easier way using plain old
Qt-designer, then piping the .ui files it creates through pyuic.



From jerf at jerf.org  Fri Oct 15 19:36:51 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:36:51 GMT
Subject: checking available system memory?
References: <ckpa75$muv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<pan.2004.10.15.19.29.09.747490@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.15.19.36.14.97179@jerf.org>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:29:48 +0000, Jeremy Bowers wrote:

> I am not familiar with the terms "10,000x3 double array with a 3x6,250,000
> double array" (particularly "double array"),

Oh, duh, array of "doubles". The specification of dimensions had me
thinking of some sort of array where each cell had 2 elements in it or
something :-)

Now I am pretty sure you can compute it lazily.



From dan.gass at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 13:32:34 2004
From: dan.gass at gmail.com (Dan Gass)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 10:32:34 -0700
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc15ba28.0410180932.4c6c0a30@posting.google.com>

Oops, forgot the link:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/config-py/


From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Oct 11 14:08:05 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Ville Vainio)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:08:05 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 11)
Message-ID: <ckegt0$r2l$1@lairds.us>

QOTW:  "As revealed by PSU Research Paper 'UU788', the real reason is a side
effect of the nanovirus encroaching into non-whitespace, as first proposed
by 'UU355' and then earlier proven (twice, as it turned out) by 'UU6 9'.
The only defence is t*^$Z:%Z* NO CARRIER" - Richie Hindle. He appears to have
survived the... unfortunate incident.

"What do I have to say to get into the QOTW?" - Dan Python, who finally
realized that Dan Perl is not going to cut it as a name.


    Johannes Eble is looking for software te help replace Matlab with
    Python.  Respondents recommend the combination of SciPy and IPython.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=uhu1m0t4euvekl61ilengepdhuettvmutr%404ax.com
    
    Irmen de Jong is looking for a way to make an object temporarily
    read-only. Alex Martelli comes up with a clever,
    obvious-when-you-have-seen-it approach of changing the class of
    the live object.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%25aleaxit%40yahoo.com
    
    Global interpreter lock of CPython and multi-CPU scalability are
    a recurrent theme in comp.lang.python. The current concern involves
    the upcoming availability and popularity of multicore CPUs.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f40posting.google.com
    
    PySQLite, the python interface to the SQLite embedded relational
    database, hits 1.0.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.4368.1097005231.5135.python-list%40python.org
   
    Carlos Ribeiro provides Erik Johnson a simple explanation of the
    mechanics behind class and function definitions - a simple matter
    that confuses many, especially people who think Python has such
    things as 'declarations'.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.4460.1097104255.5135.python-list%40python.org
    
    Alex Martelli shows how we should use the plain objects returned by
    object() as sentinels.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%25aleaxit%40yahoo.com
    
    Robin Becker needs to determine whether an object is a sequence.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=41650CAE.704%40chamonix.reportlab.co.uk
    
    Boo 0.4.3, the Python-like language for .NET/Mono CLR, is out.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw%40comcast.com
	

========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From noone at here.com  Fri Oct  1 00:34:54 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 05:34:54 +0100
Subject: List rotation
References: <cjftdv$ofl$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<mailman.4116.1096515802.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cjg4cn$qsc$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjgam4$1of$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<cjhe1o$s8f$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjhf0k$tc4$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<ngjpl0lkd57r27kfhjl72vn7pn5puoocdl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cjimlo$osu$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi Dennis,

In my effort to not confuse non musicians in my earlier posts I just used
letters, and then perhaps didn't explain fully how I crossed over to key
transposition.

Yes I agree using my method for inversions is a bit strange, I'm sure I had
a reason for it, but it's late here and for now I can't remember what it was
at the time : )

Thankyou for your code. Key transposition is what I was after. I appreciate
it.

Malcolm




From maxm at mxm.dk  Sun Oct 31 09:47:54 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:47:54 +0100
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <1gmirtb.dymeyujh00iuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<4183f2b0$0$209$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<2uiaqmF2as1ihU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<4184c277$0$265$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gmirtb.dymeyujh00iuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4184fa72$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> There are, of course, several reasons for the Parrot people to do their
> own VM rather than accept Microsoft's design (or Sun's, for that
> matter).  I don't understand your "why" question...!

"Why" as in "what is the difference, and the advantage of parrot", not 
as in "Why do they want to do something as stupid"

All the virtual machines seems to boost the same advantages for all the 
languages.

So I just wondered if anybody had a few practical examples of the 
difference, and why I should get excited over Parrot.

So far, it seems like a better idea to get Python running on .net/mono, 
as I cannot seem to get around the Windows platform in my professional 
work.

However, I can easily get around Perl, so if Python on Parrot dosn't 
have a big advantage it is hard to get excited about.

Making Python run faster is not that big a deal to me.

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From DoubleMPi at Netscape.com  Sat Oct  9 15:44:08 2004
From: DoubleMPi at Netscape.com (Mike Moum)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 19:44:08 GMT
Subject: Help - my Tkinter is broken
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4209.1096801766.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <NJB7d.16164$FZ5.2713@fe2.columbus.rr.com>	<pan.2004.10.03.09.50.45.170085@virgilio.it>
	<mailman.4209.1096801766.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ccX9d.264847$787.22900@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

A belated Thank You to both of you.  Modifying Setup did the trick - it 
works now.

Mike

Miki Tebeka wrote:
> Hello Francesco,
> 
> 
>>>3) Thinking that the compilation process is looking for tk and tcl under 
>>>/usr/local/lib, I created symlinks there to /usr/lib/tcl-8.4 and 
>>>/usr/lib/tk-8.4, and then repeated step 2.  Still no _tkinter.so.
>>
>>Last time I compiled python on Linux (it was the 1.6 ) in order to include
>>statically Tkinter (or other modules), you needed to tweak with one file
>>in the Setup sub-directory of the source tree. Given the sore state of my
>>brain RAM, I can't be more precise than that.
> 
> Just uncomment the lines in Modules/Setup that start with _tkinter.
> 
> HTH.
> Bye.
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com>
> http://tebeka.spymac.net
> The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys


From sridhara at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 12:19:28 2004
From: sridhara at yahoo.com (SS)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 09:19:28 -0700
Subject: compiling using native compiler
Message-ID: <95650bb5.0410050819.2f34f323@posting.google.com>

When I try to compile python 2.3.4 using SGI's native compiler 
./configure --without-gcc
followed by
make

I get error
make
         c++   -o python \
                        Modules/python.o \
                        libpython2.3.a -ldl  -lpthread -lmpc   -lm
ld32: WARNING 84 : /usr/lib32/libdl.so is not used for resolving any symbol.
ld32: FATAL   9  : I/O error (-lmpc): No such file or directory
collect2: ld returned 32 exit status
*** Error code 1 (bu21)

but I see it in /usr/lib

ls -l /usr/lib/mpc
-rwxrwxr-x    1 root     sys       598996 May 20 17:10 /usr/lib/mpc


From emayo at home.com  Tue Oct 19 20:48:08 2004
From: emayo at home.com (Pater Maximus)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:48:08 -0400
Subject: How can I do French and English Spell Checking using MS Word
	from Python
References: <mailman.5161.1098173361.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GNudnbU9oK5UKOjcRVn-tA@comcast.com>

I have been knocking my brains out on this one. I just got it to work while
putting together a reply to you. That just goes to prove the
Shakespeare/typing monkeys paradigm works in Python too:)

I figured it out by using the "dot completion" in Delphi to discover that
.Selection.LanguageID was acceptable.


Here is the code from my program. I am new to Python so forgive bad idioms.
.

#Other stuff here...

msword = win32com.client.Dispatch("Word.Application")

msword.Selection.LanguageID=1036 # the 1036 should be the constant wdFrench
but I could not get it to run with it

for line in inputFile:

word = line.split(',')

if msword.CheckSpelling(word[1]):

print "!%s! OK!" % word[1]

continue

print "Misspelled" , line

#Other stuff here...

The line with LanguageID was the missing piece.

Question: Is there "dot completion" in any of the free Python editors?

Thanks for your reply.




From askari at addressNonValide.com  Tue Oct  5 09:30:10 2004
From: askari at addressNonValide.com (Askari)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 13:30:10 GMT
Subject: printing file/image on default Printer
Message-ID: <Xns957960B5B9520askariaddressNonVali@207.35.177.135>

Hi,
   I search how "I" can printing file/image with a script but the user (who 
use my script) must DO NOTHING (other that dealing with my GUI). e.g. : 
with AdobeAcrobat, the user must click "ok" in the "pre"printing windows.

My solutions, but NOT ok :
 - Build a .pdf (with reportLab) and print with Adode
 - Build a image file and print it with "DisplayImage.py" but don't work 
(error raised)

(note : the OS, for my problem, is just Windows)

Someone have a other idea/solution? 

Askari


From rowen at cesmail.net  Mon Oct 25 18:31:40 2004
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:31:40 -0700
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
Message-ID: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

I'm trying to launch an application from Python 2.3 on Windows. The 
application is "ds9" (an image viewer), and is installed in C:\Program 
Files\ds9\ds9

On unix I just do:
os.popen3("ds9")
and close the returned files and all is good. (I'm not trying to 
communicate with the program via popen3 and so had been using 
os.spawnlp, but that doesn't exist on Windows.)

On Windows os.popen3("ds9") does nothing, and the stderr returned from 
os.popen3 has a message saying the program is unknown.

So I tried being specific:
os.popen3("C:\\Program Files\\ds9\\ds9")
This also fails and the program that is not found is "C:\Program", 
suggesting that the space in "Program Files" is causing the problem. The 
following failed in exactly the same way:
os.popen3("C:\\Program\ Files\\ds9\\ds9")

Any suggestions?

-- Russell

P.S. I installed the app using its Windows binary installer, which 
unpacks a few files in C:\\Program files\. Windows doesn't seem to know 
the program exists; it's not in the task bar, for example. But one can 
double-click it to run it.


From andreas at kostyrka.org  Tue Oct  5 17:42:37 2004
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:42:37 +0200
Subject: Modules aren't first-class values (was: New to Python: Features)
In-Reply-To: <nnab32-ud.ln1@lairds.us>
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nnab32-ud.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <20041005214237.GA14029@kostyrka.org>

On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 08:08:03PM +0000, Cameron Laird wrote:
> I've seen you assert this a couple of times.  I haven't been
> able to spot the revelation in this thread which inspired you
> to it.  I suspect there's a confusion somewhere.  Modules
> are *not* first-class values, although their names are.  It
How did you come to this conclusion? I mean modules are first class
values ;)
>>> import types
>>> types.ModuleType("TEST")
<module 'TEST' (built-in)>
>>> x=types.ModuleType("TEST2")
>>> import sys
>>> y=sys.modules['os']
>>> x==y
False

Andreas
> sounds as though the standard documentation lacks something
> in regard to modules, but I don't know what it is.  If you
> present the idea in some detail, perhaps someone will come
> up with an idea on better documentation.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From pcooke at philc.net  Mon Oct 25 07:57:57 2004
From: pcooke at philc.net (PhilC)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:57:57 -0400
Subject: Canvas with scrollbars - how to get correct canvas coordinate
	when the scroll bars have moved?
References: <mpkkn01hge0017phkbhg9mvuoa1nk7jsto@4ax.com>
	<417cb485$0$1026$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <28qpn0lqh2jqcahd0ha6tuginrjt7qupiu@4ax.com>

Thanks Eric,

I thought so too :)

Re looked at my script and I had an error further down. Corrected that
and the scrolling all works. Part of my inexperience is not knowing
where to look for the errors. I'm sure that comes with practice.

Many thanks for taking the time to answer me it is much appreciated.

Regards

Phil

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:16:09 +0200, Eric Brunel
<eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote:

>PhilC wrote:
>> Hi Folks,
>> 
>> I'm trying to click on a canvas to draw a line. The canvas has scroll
>> bars. All is well until I move the scrollbars. This naturally because
>> the relationship between my screen click and canvas event.x, event.y
>> has changed.
>> 
>> I need something that will add the proportional amount the scroll bar
>> has moved to the mouse click position. I see the terms canvasx and
>> canvasy but they appear to be used for converting screen position to
>> canvas position.
>
>Either I do not understand your question, or canvasx and canvasy are exactly 
>what you're looking for:
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>from Tkinter import *
>
>root = Tk()
>root.grid_rowconfigure(0, weight=1)
>root.grid_columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
>cnv = Canvas(root, scrollregion=(0, 0, 1000, 1000))
>cnv.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky='nswe')
>hs = Scrollbar(root, orient=HORIZONTAL, command=cnv.xview)
>hs.grid(row=1, column=0, sticky='we')
>vs = Scrollbar(root, orient=VERTICAL, command=cnv.yview)
>vs.grid(row=0, column=1, sticky='ns')
>cnv.configure(xscrollcommand=hs.set, yscrollcommand=vs.set)
>
>def click(evt):
>   x, y = cnv.canvasx(evt.x), cnv.canvasy(evt.y)
>   cnv.create_oval(x - 5, y - 5, x + 5, y + 5)
>
>cnv.bind('<1>', click)
>
>root.mainloop()
>------------------------------------------------------------
>
>"Canvas position" is the position in the drawable zone for the canvas, 
>considering the scroll-region. Isn't it what you want?
>
>HTH



From and-google at doxdesk.com  Sun Oct 24 15:26:48 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 12:26:48 -0700
Subject: Processing XML files in CJK encodings
References: <6ea3a4e5.0410211339.2395fa29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0410241126.5f49a3a6@posting.google.com>

Gen <gshibaya at gmail.com> wrote:

> I need to parse XML files in CJK encodings like GB2312 and Ja in UTF-8.

I assume you've already got CJKCodecs (or Python 2.4 where it's
built-in).

The main problem is that the expat parser (on which much Python XML
kit relies) doesn't understand the DBCS encodings. There are two ways
around this: either use an initial recoding step:

  xml= unicode(bytes, 'gb2312').encode('utf-8')
  doc= minidom.parseString(xml)

(If your input documents have an <?xml ... encoding="gb2312" ?>
declaration this will also have to be changed to encoding="utf-8" or
simply removed.)

OR, use a pure-Python XML parser, so it'll have access to CJKCodecs.
That means xmlproc+4DOM (validating) or pxdom (non-validating). This
is, in comparison to the recoding method, rather slow.

[Aside: have just released pxdom 1.2:

  http://www.doxdesk.com/software/py/pxdom.html

I've processed a bunch of Shift-JIS material with this before without
problem.]

> Then I tried xml.parsers.xmlproc. It works fine with GB2312, but now it
> doesn't work with Ja in UTF-8.

Ohh. That's a bad one. Actually I'm surprised if it works with GB.

Here's a quick fix; I can't guarantee it's correct as I haven't really
played with xmlproc much but it fixes the error for me when parsing
strings. Oh, checking this out at the SourceForge tracker it looks
like the original reporter came up with the same idea, so it might be
okay. :-)

Near the end of method parse_xml_decl (in PyXML 0.8.3 this is at line
723) in _xmlplus.parsers.xmlproc.xmlutils:

            try:
                self.data = self.charset_converter(self.data)
                self.datasize= len(self.data)       ### ADD THIS LINE
            except UnicodeError, e:
                self._handle_decoding_error(self.data, e)
            self.input_encoding = enc1

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Thu Oct  7 06:37:09 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:37:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Problem with telnetlib dropping receive bytes.
References: <41649ff5$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <ck368l$27e$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:


>Why are NUL and DC1 characters being deleted from the recieve
>data stream at lines 431 and 433?  They're both perfectly legal
>characters.  I can't find anywhere in RFC 854 where it says to
>do that, and it's breaking my program.  Some of the other
>telnet features (e.g. RFC 2217) specifically use those two byte
>values.

Looks like a bug to me.  Telnet requires that ALL 7 bit characters can be
used.  Since it's all handled in Python I can't think of any reason why
those characters would be a problem.

Eddie


From kayschluehr at gmx.de  Sun Oct 17 07:16:13 2004
From: kayschluehr at gmx.de (Kay Schluehr)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:16:13 +0200
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
Message-ID: <4172547D.9050709@gmx.de>

Moin

Maybe You can start somewhere with the Linux-kernel, the 
Python-Interpreter and
the ctypes extension module and replace successively parts of the 
Linux-kernel by Python
modules. So You will always have a running Linux-system and dig as far 
with Your replacement
methodology as You can. Probably the changing system will undergo 
refactorings and
will be involved in a kind of "metamorphosis" ( a good OS name? ). I 
think this would make sense
keeping in mind that Python still evolves.

Kay



From listserver at tdw.net  Fri Oct  8 07:34:23 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:34:23 +0100
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
Message-ID: <00ac01c4ad2a$c29394e0$ccbefea9@twilliams>

[apologies if you got this twice]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at uci.edu>

>
> > If you want to use file primitives to read the value back, just create
> > another one:
> >
> > inpt = StringIO.StringIO(firstStringIO.getvalue())
> >
> > then you can read the printed output from inpt just like a file.
>
> Or even:
>
>  firstStringIO.seek(0)
>
>  - Josiah

Steve, Andrew, Josiah,

Thanks for your answers.

The outgoing SMTP is multi-threaded,   so the threads disrupt each other's
output to the file-like object  if there is any concurrent outgoing mail
activity.

Is there anyway I can seperate the output from each thread and capture it ?

The outgoing threads are started  with

thread.start_new_thread(outThread,(args,None))

One thread per out-going message.  Each handles the outgoing message sending
and error-handling for the message.   I can't talk back to the calling
thread/class because it is the incoming SMTP part and it is destroyed when
the remote client connection is dropped.  (The SMTP server is a filtering
relay)

TIA








From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct 26 14:08:04 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:08:04 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 25)
References: <mailman.5509.1098800693.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
	<aStfd.40083$Z14.14531@news.indigo.ie>
	<eK-dnczoRaJ07uPcRVn-rw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <o9f252-e6m.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <eK-dnczoRaJ07uPcRVn-rw at powergate.ca>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Alan Kennedy wrote:
>> [Cameron Laird]
>>  >     Andreas Kostyrka summarizes the design judgment behind
>>  >     Python's locking.
>>  > 
>>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list%40python.org 
>> 
>> 
>> I've got to say that I found Luis P Caamano's contribution to that 
>> thread far more enlightening. It gives the best historical perspective 
>> on the GIL that I've ever read.
>> 
>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-October/245412.html
>
>"Historical"?  You mean the part that begins with his statement
>'''I speculate that the GIL "problem" might have grown to its current
>state because CPython grew in parallel with thread programming. '''
>
>Speculation is always an interesting way to study history. <wink>
>
>-Peter

Yes, well, but apart from that, Alan is soooooo right to mention his
impression.  We're Usenet here, folks, and it thrills me when people
take "Python-URL!" not as an authority, but rather as a starting point
for productive discussion.  Thank you, Alan, for pointing out Mr.
Caamano's follow-up, for it indeed merits attention.


From mauriceling at acm.org  Tue Oct 19 01:48:56 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:48:56 GMT
Subject: reverse Jython
Message-ID: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>

Hi,

I'm looking for a suitable thesis topic, so I hope that I can gather 
some advice on this area that I'm thinking of.

Jython appears as a relatively successful attempt to bridge Python to 
Java and I find that the best part is that it can convert Python codes 
into Java codes. As said in the webpage, it is a python interpreter 
written in Java. I am wondering if it is worth reversing this, that is, 
a Java interpreter implemented in Python?

A Google search comes up with JPI and PyJava.

Is this still a viable area to look into or it is too done?

Any suggestions?

Thanks
Maurice


From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Fri Oct  8 21:01:05 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 21:01:05 -0400
Subject: [OT] problems with css, moinmoin standalone and Firefox on Win32
 was Re: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <864d37090410081730242292f1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4166F7C6.7050405@wanadoo.fr> <41670711.9040508@po-box.mcgill.ca>
	<864d3709041008151026806fa4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4167289B.8050404@po-box.mcgill.ca>
	<864d37090410081730242292f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41673851.2080804@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Carlos Ribeiro said unto the world upon 2004-10-08 20:30:
> On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:54:03 -0400, Brian van den Broek
> <bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote:
> 
>>Anything look obviously wrong? Mind if I had a peek at your moin_config.py?
> 
> 
> I'm really sorry, but ?ts not possible to me to check it *now*. I'll
> see if I can send to you in pvt some info, but no promises -- I'm
> really in a hurry now. 

Hi Carlos,

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the apology. You are being very 
helpful to a 'doze user trying to emerge out of the thrall of Bill.

If you have the time later, I'd very much appreciate it. But if you 
don't, well, it's *my* problem, not yours. I'm hardly in a position to 
ask you for my money back :-)

Thanks for all your help,

Brian vdB



From theller at python.net  Thu Oct 28 09:02:45 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:02:45 +0200
Subject: Error import PyWinTypes24.dll
References: <a4686a1f.0410280422.7e7cddb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bren3si2.fsf@python.net>

alain.marcel at svd-info.fr (Alain) writes:

> Hi all !
>  
> I'm working on Windows XP, with Python24.
> I've a trouble with PyWinTypes24.dll (python Windows extensions).
> Trouble is not due to specific python version 24.
>   
> To distribute my applications, I don't want to put anything else
> elsewhere (neither in Windows/System32 nor in registry).
> So I deliver a folder (says HOME) that contains two mains folders
>   - a folder Python24 that contains python distribution and
> msvcr71.dll, python24.dll, PyWinTypes24.dll
>   - a folder apps that contain a folder per python application
>  
> I start my python applications with such command :
> HOME/Python24/Python HOME/apps/app1/run.py
> Windows complains that it cannot found PyWinTypes24.dll.
> If I copy PyWinTypes24.dll in each HOME/apps/appX folder, then it
> works.
> It's a solution but not very nice.
> Is there a solution without duplicate PyWinTypes24.dll ?

You should look into, and probably change, win32\lib\pywintypes.py,
which is the module that loads pywintypesXY.dll with some magic.

Thomas


From darren at coolpink.net  Mon Oct  4 10:01:39 2004
From: darren at coolpink.net (darren at coolpink.net)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 14:01:39 -0000
Subject: ANNOUNCE: GnomePython 2.6.0
Message-ID: <20041004140139.26026.qmail@ws2.coolpink.net>

Sorry, but I am out of the office on Monday 27th September until Monday 11th October 2004.

I will respond to your e-mail when I return

If you need technical support please contact simonh at coolpink.net or mazen at coolpink.net

For any other enquiries please call the office on (0113) 272 3191 

Thanks for your e-mail.




From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Thu Oct 28 05:30:39 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:30:39 +0200
Subject: TK: Ho to set window position
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5603.1098953471.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <3Gkdd.2134$Ag.1192@fe37.usenetserver.com>	<2u5oqmF27qhb2U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cll8u5$dt9$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.5603.1098953471.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4180ba80$0$3632$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

andrea valle wrote:
> Ok, I know it's basic, but I cannot find a reference...
> How can I set the position on the screen of a frame in Tkinter?

First, according to Tkinter terminology, a frame is not a window. A window is 
called a Toplevel in Tkinter (I see a lot of examples building Tkinter 
applications by inheriting from Frame; don't do that! Or you will have big 
problems when trying to do things on the actual window, i.e. the Toplevel 
instance. If you really want to sub-class something, sub-class Toplevel or Tk 
for the main window)

So, once you have your Toplevel instance, the method positionning/sizing the 
window is calledgeometry, to which you pass a string formatted like 
'[WxH][+X+Y]', where W and H are the width and height you want for your window, 
and X and Y its coordinates. Example:

 >>> from Tkinter import *
 >>> root = Tk()
 >>> root.geometry('200x150')
''
 >>> root.geometry('+10+10')
''
 >>> root.geometry('300x200+40+80')
''

The first root.geometry sets the window's dimensions only, the second one its 
position only, and the third one its dimensions and position.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct 26 04:50:39 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:50:39 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <Z8ofd.2777$kM.174@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<clkvab$1dc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<Z8ofd.2777$kM.174@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <zdofd.2778$kM.1673@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Me:
> I've seen some similar symptoms  ...

But of course correlation does not imply causation and I use
that solely as an example to show how it could be caused by
non-troll behavior.

There could also be cultural reasons, and/or personal ones,
and/or the keyboard could have a broken shift state... Though
that would require '*' to not be on a shifted position.

                  Andrew
                  dalke at dalkescientific.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 16 13:37:13 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:37:13 -0400
Subject: windows services
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5046.1097941098.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5046.1097941098.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <X7edncYGLPrawezcRVn-3A@powergate.ca>

Francis Lavoie wrote:
> Is it possible to restart windows services? (remotely and locally)
> 
> Because I have a little script that retreive the LastWaitTimeout key of 
> the automatic update, delete that key if it out schedule for our 
> production needs. But still the service need to be restarded if I want 
> that key to be reset, when Win Update will resynchronize with the sus 
> server for new update.

This is initially a non-Python question, because you will need
to identify how you would do that using the Windows API.  Once
you've answered that question (searching MSDN usually helps)
you can try a Google (or Google Groups) search for the name
of the API function along with "python", and usually that will
point you to where someone else has already done it.

If Google doesn't help you at that point, posting here with the
relevant Windows-specific info will generally get you a response
using pywin32 or ctypes that will do the job.

-Peter


From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 16:30:28 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 13:30:28 -0700
Subject: Need help getting started with Twisted Matrix.
References: <c718a6cf.0410221328.58ab0efb@posting.google.com>
	<puqdnfvc_Om74OTcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0410261230.3ec725a4@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<puqdnfvc_Om74OTcRVn-iA at powergate.ca>...
> Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
> > need some help getting started, it is just a "little" confusing on
> > where to actually start. I want to write a turn based board game using
> > Twisted as the networking layer.
> > 
> > I just need a kind of "kick start" to how I need to handle
> > authentication, joining rooms, ect.
> > 
> > Any help, even a pointer to a better place like another newsgroup, or
> > a mailing list or forum that would be helpful, I have not had alot of
> > luck finding any place that is very responsive.
> 
> Have you walked yourself through any of the "How Tos", pasting
> the code into your editor (or perhaps even better, retyping it!)
> and running the results, then playing with things?
> 
> I found that a very effective way to get a feel for the differences
> between Twisted and other approaches.
> 
> -Peter


yeah I have done all that, and more, the problem is there are no
non-trival examples that give much direction on what components to use
when . . .

the finger server example is overly contrived, and other source I have
found is overly complex . . .

I am porting a game server written in Java to Twisted, problem is
where to put the objects in the layers, what to use when is just very
un-clear from the example code and tutorials I have found.


From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Fri Oct 22 05:58:04 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:58:04 +0200
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
References: <mailman.5254.1098346524.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87pt3b3wib.fsf@chat.blakie.riol>

Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> So, what would you like to see? "import sqlite", "import embsql", or
> "pypi.install('pysqlite')" ?

apt-get install python-sqlite ;-)

I would like to see sqlite in python, the inclusion of sqlite in php was
greatly apreciated. I often use it for prototyping.

But for new users who will learn with sqlite, they will be disapointed
when they will want to use an other database, because of different
paramstyle, different datetime object... So i think before it could be
better to improve dbapi for user application side, and make pysqlite a
reference of implementation to follow (one paramstyle, return python
datetime, fetchdict...). If not it shall not be include imho.

We have the same problem with the web frameworks and server. I would
like to see a wsgi equivalent for database. To can plug any framework on
any database.

But when we look at the db-sig ml, it seems that there is a lot of work
to achieve this... btw guido was pushing to return python datetime.

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 02:57:39 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:57:39 +0200
Subject: Python Patterns
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4162ef68$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4409.1097042612.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl88is.1sxl7371uqtnyzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dave Pawson <davep at dpawson.co.uk> wrote:

> On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 22:56, Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > Yep -- I've been writing about DPs with/for Python for years now (that's
> > the invariable background to almost all of my conference talks &c, check
> > most of them out at www.strakt.com), and one day (once I'm done doing
> > 2nd editions of cookbooks and nutshells;-) I hope to write a book about
> > that 
> 
> Wouldn't it be nice if there was a wiki to collect them on Alex!

There's a great wiki on Patterns (indeed I think it was historically the
first one -- the Portland Patterns Repository, I believe) and I'm sure
they're not language bigots, so one could try going there.

Personally, I'm smack in the middle of editing/coordinating/writing a
multi-authors book for the 2nd time -- indeed, the Python Cookbook is
rather exceptional in the extent of its multi-authorness! -- and I'm not
keen for a 3rd run... it's fascinating but also a mess.  Just imagine
one contributor not answering mail (to send a proper intellectual
property release when asked), or deciding he doesn't want to after all,
holding up the whole project... *shudder*.  And, with a Wiki, authorship
of each word, each sentence may be even harder to trace.

I think I'll do the book myself, or with one well-identified co-author,
though of course I'll put up pieces in more discursive form to get
feedback &c...


Alex


From dbeech at bigpond.net.au  Thu Oct 28 03:36:35 2004
From: dbeech at bigpond.net.au (Dave Beech)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:06:35 +0930
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 13, Issue 462
References: <20041028071356.D4B5C1E4011@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <00b301c4bcc0$db5770a0$0100000a@vic.bigpond.net.au>

please stop sending this shit to my email. im not fucking interested . thank
you
----- Original Message -----
From: <python-list-request at python.org>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 4:43 PM
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 13, Issue 462


> Send Python-list mailing list submissions to
> python-list at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> python-list-request at python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> python-list-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Python-list digest..."
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: mod_python newbie question. (Steve Holden)
>    2. Re: Collating Text and Images (Steve Holden)
>    3. Re: Can not get urllib.urlopen to work (Steve Holden)
>    4. Re: mod_python newbie question. (Tim Roberts)
>    5. Re: ReportLab newbie (Tim Roberts)
>    6. Python Command Line Input Args equivalent to Perl (Edward WIJAYA)
>    7. Anyone have Analog code? (Robert Brewer)
>    8. Re: Python Command Line Input Args equivalent to Perl (Sam Holden)
>    9. Python AST as XML (Oleg Paraschenko)
>   10. Python utility convert Windows long file name into 8.3 DOS
>       format (Ben Kial)
>   11. Re: Python utility convert Windows long file name into 8.3
>       DOS format (Simon Brunning)
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From jedp at ilm.com  Mon Oct 18 18:24:19 2004
From: jedp at ilm.com (Jed Parsons)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 15:24:19 -0700
Subject: Building email threads from unix mailboxes
Message-ID: <1098138259.303424.280500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

What headers to I have to know about to build thread trees from Unix
mailboxes?

Is it enough to get the In-Reply-To header for each message and build a
dictionary of { Message-ID: message } pairs?  Or is it more complicated
than that?

If there isn't already a module to do this (and apologies if there is
one and I don't know about it), are the current tools of choice the
'email' and 'mailbox' modules?  (And I guess I'd want to use the mime
decoding tools in 'email' to deal with messages that come with
attachments or html or other stuff.)

Thanks for any tips,

Jed



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 00:00:23 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:00:23 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <4162185c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4162142c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.4294.1096947568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162185c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <41621C57.2030804@cloudthunder.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

>On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following 
>>>>support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Wow. Rude much?
>>>
>>>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>>>http://www.python.org/
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>What does "Rude much" mean?
>>    
>>
>
>You've _got_ to be kidding...
>
>  
>
I don't think that that is proper english.

Anyhow, I wasn't trying to muster up anything or annoy anyone.  My 
sincere apologies to all who were offended.


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Wed Oct 20 10:43:47 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:43:47 +0200
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
 exception
In-Reply-To: <8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Paul Clinch schrieb:
> logging.fatal( 'Test is %(test)s' % values)
> is fine. An why shouldn't you use it in this fashion?

I thought a logging API was usually trying to do costly things only when 
it knows it has to. You /could/ do that, but since it doesn't come for 
free - why not first do the check if you will actually log this message?

Ok, I know there's an overhead anyway: function calls, object creation, 
etc. But copying strings and creating string representations of objects 
can be /very/ expensive and should only be done if the log message is 
definitely written.

I'd simply say that constructing a log message from arguments is such a 
common thing that it is worth providing efficient API support for it. And 
I think it's truely counter-pythonic to prevent the usage of dictionaries 
at this point.

Stefan


From steve at ferg.org  Fri Oct 22 09:38:50 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 06:38:50 -0700
Subject: how about a builtin "abstractmethod"?
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0410220538.7727ec25@posting.google.com>

Python has a builtin class for staticmethod.  Seems to me that Python
should also have a builtin class for abstractmethod.  Something like
this...

#######################################

# simulated implementation of a new builtin class: abstractmethod
def abstractmethod(f):
    methodName = f.__name__
    def temp(self, *args, **kwargs):
        raise NotImplementedError(
            "Attempt to invoke unimplemented abstract method %s"
            % methodName)
    return temp

# example of using proposed builtin class: abstractmethod
class TestClass:
    @abstractmethod
    def TestMethod(self): pass


t = TestClass()
t.TestMethod()  # call to abstract method raises exception


From winlinchu at yahoo.it  Fri Oct  8 07:44:33 2004
From: winlinchu at yahoo.it (winlinchu at yahoo.it)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 04:44:33 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python.
References: <74b8e0de.0410070353.17ab0890@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <74b8e0de.0410080344.4df3097f@posting.google.com>

winlinchu at yahoo.it wrote in message news:<74b8e0de.0410070353.17ab0890 at posting.google.com>...
> I would want to embed Python interpreter in an application, but only
> the
> interpreter without the modules of the standard library (unless sys,
> builtin or some others, that are indispensables). In "setup.py" of the
> source tree, there is a variable that must contain the list of modules
> to not install. I have added some modules, but does not work.
> 
> How can I do? Thanks.

I don't want to create an executable from Python sources (I use Linux,
not Windows), but a normal C application with Python included. In my
application I don't need of modules which socket, xml, or some others.
Therefore, why I must to compile/install?

Thanks for all.


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Tue Oct 19 05:39:04 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:39:04 +0200
Subject: formatting time as milliseconds in logging module
Message-ID: <cl2n3g$2lt$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Hi!

The logging module nicely prepends each line with a formatted date.

However, I'm not interested in the actual date but only in the number of 
milliseconds that passed since the start of the program. What is the best 
way of doing that?

Thanks,
Stefan


From foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid  Sat Oct  2 15:27:05 2004
From: foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid (Thomas Rast)
Date: 02 Oct 2004 21:27:05 +0200
Subject: Reclaiming (lots of) memory
Message-ID: <87lleo6hva.fsf@thomas.local>

Hello everyone

My scenario is somewhat involved, so if you're in a hurry, here's an
abstract: I have a daemon that needs about 80MB of RAM to build its
internal data structures, but can pack them to 20MB for the rest of
its lifetime.  The other 60MB are never returned to the operating
system.  I've thought of building and packing the structures in a
fork()ed process, then piping them over to the main part; is there an
easier way to get my RAM back?

Explanation:

The program is part of a toy IRC bot which reads roughly 100'000 lines
from logfiles and builds a huge dict of dicts which is then used to
build sentences much like word-based dissociated press would.  All
entries are ints representing words or, as values of the inner
dictionaries, frequencies.

The final dictionary has about 325'000 entries, and the python process
uses around 80MB of RAM.  See the test case at the end of my post:
fill() creates a similiar data structure.  If you run it as a script
and compare the 'ps' outputs, you'll see that 'del d' frees only a
small part of the memory to the OS; on my Linux system, about 10%.

Using the standard 'struct' module, I can pack the keys and values of
the outer dictionary into strings, which brings memory usage down to
about 20M.  Unfortunately, this has to be done as a second step (as
opposed to always keeping the dictionary in that format), otherwise it
would slow down things too much.  Writing everything to disk (using
e.g. 'bsddb3') suffers from the same problem; I really have to do the
initial work in RAM to get acceptable speed.

So, do I really have to do this in two separate processes?  Would it
help if I implemented the data storage part as a C extension module?
Or am I worrying too much about a problem that is better left to the
OS's memory management (i.e. swapping)?

Of course I'd also appreciate ideas for more efficient data layouts
;-)

Thomas

---8<---
#!/usr/bin/python

import random
import os

def fill(map):
    random.seed(0)
    for i in xrange(300000):
        k1 = (random.randrange(100),
              random.randrange(100),
              random.randrange(100))
        k2 = random.randrange(100)
        if k1 in map:
            d = map[k1]
        else:
            d = dict()
        d[k2] = d.get(k2, 0) + 1
        map[k1] = d

if __name__ == "__main__":
    os.system('ps v')
    d = dict()
    fill(d)
    os.system('ps v')
    del d
    os.system('ps v')
--->8---

-- 
If you want to reply by mail, substitute my first and last name for
'foo' and 'bar', respectively, and remove '.invalid'.


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Oct 19 14:56:58 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:56:58 -0600
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <20041019190851.GA6740@kostyrka.org>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<20041019190851.GA6740@kostyrka.org>
Message-ID: <4175637A.7000803@pythonapocrypha.com>

Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:16:01AM -0700, Jonathan  Ellis wrote:
> 
>>Testing is good; preventing entire classes of errors from ever
>>happening at all is better, particularly when you get large.  Avoiding
>>connectedness helps, but that's not always possible.
> 
> What classes of errors are completely avoided by "static typing" as
> implemented by C++ (Java)? 

I'm curious as well, because from what I've seen, the classes of errors "caught" 
are (1) a subset of the higher-level (e.g. algorithmic and corner-case) errors 
caught by good testing anyway, (2) much more common in code written by 
lazy/underexperienced developers who are already considered a liability, and (3) 
caused in part by complexities introduced by the language itself*.

More modern/advanced static type systems that let you actually get into the 
semantics of the program (as opposed to just deciding which predefined type 
bucket your data fits in) may help, but IMO the jury's still out on them (partly 
due to complexity, and partly due to _when_ in the development process they must 
be defined - perhaps that's the root problem of some static type systems - they 
make you declare intent and semantics when you know the _least_ about them! 
Consider the parallels to available knowledge in compile-time versus run-time 
optimizations).

-Dave

* A trivial example:When programmers need to count something, rarely do they 
care about unsigned vs signed or short vs normal vs long vs longlong, and yet in 
something like C++ they are _constantly_ making this decision.

Another: in Java, every exception that can be thrown must be mentioned in the 
code every step of the way - a maintenance nightmare, not to mention the utter 
distraction during development.


From pitkali at NOSPAMinteria.pl  Sat Oct 16 04:37:02 2004
From: pitkali at NOSPAMinteria.pl (pitkali)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:37:02 +0200
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>
	<416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<mailman.4998.1097833203.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekjz3lly.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp6fb$gvi$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<du7sm8f24h4.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp90u$s9l$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<mailman.5023.1097870716.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckplef$99o$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <ckqmkc$n7s$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Jarek Zgoda wrote:

> Stephen Waterbury <golux at comcast.net> pisze:
> 
>>> Windows versions are named, royalty-free, commercial licenses.
>>> [... long, tortuous explanation ...] Hallo, any lawyers around here?
>> 
>> As he said, "way too messy"!  ;)
> 
> I am not sure if Detlev can pose such exceptions... Well, Qt-and-around
> is not an easy shoot. ;)

He hold the copyright (with Phil Thompson). He is the licensor. He can do
all he wants.

Regards,

-- 
* Piotr (pitkali) Kalinowski * mailto: pitkali (at) o2 (dot) pl  *
*   Registered Linux User No. 282090 * Powered by Gentoo Linux   *
* Fingerprint: D5BB 27C7 9993 50BB A1D2 33F5 961E FE1E D049 4FCD *


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 12:13:22 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:13:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: object as bunch (WAS Re: End of file)
Message-ID: <loom.20041011T175540-974@post.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> If an object() could be used as a Bunch I do think it would be
> reasonably common.  But it can't, so I insist that its role as
> sentinel/placeholder is the only possibility.

Anyone know what the design goal was that caused object not to be written to 
be used as a Bunch?

I'm not suggesting that I'd want to be able to set attributes from outside the 
class -- the fact that x23.foo = 23 is an AttributeError if x23 does not have 
a foo attribute is a Good Thing, IMHO -- but I can see that a **kwds 
constructor like dict() has might be useful:

>>> o = object(foo1=None, foo2=23)
>>> o.foo1
>>> o.foo2
23
>>> o.foo3 = 2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'object' object has no attribute 'foo3'

If object was a Bunch, you could also set the fields of a class in the call to 
object's __init__.  

>>> class C(object):
...     def __init__(self, foo23, foo57=None):
...             super(C, self).__init__(foo23=foo23, foo57=foo57)
...
>>> c = C(1)
>>> c.foo57
>>> c.foo23
1

Don't know if the fields behavior here really gains you anything, but it would 
be another side effect of object being a Bunch.

I have wanted from time to time to have a Bunch object.  Of course it's only 3 
lines of code to roll your own...  But I wouldn't mind hearing about the 
reasoning behind making object as it is...

Steve



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 12 21:01:09 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:01:09 -0700
Subject: School Project, Need Help Fast!
In-Reply-To: <416C7F32.2040807@cloudthunder.com>
References: <000801c4b0a8$e550f960$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>
	<416C7F32.2040807@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <20041012180023.0915.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> >I understand that there are better ways, but I'm looking for easier... Do
> >you have any ideas about the DOS preferences problem?
> >
> >  
> >
> What do you mean easier?  Using a dictionary is real easy.

Yeah, but he didn't seem to know about dictionaries.

 - Josiah



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 12:48:47 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:48:47 -0400
Subject: __author__
In-Reply-To: <UUe7d.39869$35.1839915@news4.tin.it>
References: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>
	<UUe7d.39869$35.1839915@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <mJOdncAlLKryF8DcRVn-pg@powergate.ca>

Anna Martelli Ravenscroft wrote:
> You may be seeing those in modules that were packaged up with distutils. 
> The setup.py expects certain metadata about the distribution,including 
> those you've listed above. A list of the expected values is available on 
> page 562 of _Python in a Nutshell_, or in _Distributing Python Modules_ 
> section 3, accessible at thttp://docs.python.org/dist/dist.html

Anna, I'd like a clarification please.  Are you suggesting that
those variables as written *with underscores* are what distutils
expects to see, or merely that the names of those variables
is similar to those required by distutils?  I don't see any
mention of __whatever__ on the page you cite above.

-Peter


From davep at dpawson.co.uk  Wed Oct  6 14:45:31 2004
From: davep at dpawson.co.uk (Dave Pawson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 19:45:31 +0100
Subject: XSL transform with Python
In-Reply-To: <416431ea$0$25965$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <33a013af.0410060646.3a821dc7@posting.google.com>
	<416431ea$0$25965$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1097088331.3130.6.camel@homer>

On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 18:57,
> 
> > Can anyone give me a pointer to what module to use, what is stable,
> > and what is and be stay standard for Python?

4suite ran pretty well last time I used it for
XSLT transforms.

-- 
Regards DaveP.
XSLT&Docbook  FAQ
http://www.dpawson.co.uk/xsl




From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Fri Oct  8 01:22:23 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 01:22:23 -0400
Subject: How to catch exceptions elegantly in this situation?
In-Reply-To: <e431ae34.0410071913.15954ed5@posting.google.com>
References: <e431ae34.0410071913.15954ed5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4166240F.6000607@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Saqib Ali said unto the world upon 2004-10-07 23:13:
> Check out the following code fragment
> 
> Line  1: myDict = {}
> Line  2: a = 5
> Line  3: b = 2
> Line  4: c = 0
> Line  5: myDict["A"] = a + b + c
> Line  6: myDict["B"] = a - b - c
> Line  7: myDict["C"] = a * b * c
> Line  8: myDict["D"] = a / b / c
> Line  9: myDict["E"] = a ** b ** c
> Line 10: ...<etc>...
> Line 11: ...<etc>...
> Line 12: ...<etc>...
> 
> An exception will be raised at line #7 because of division by zero.
> I want the exception to be caught, printed, but then I want the flow
> to continue to line #8 and onwards. I want this behaviour on EACH
> assignment line. (Line 5 onwards). IE: Do the assignment. If an
> exception is raised, print the exception and continue to the next
> assignment.
> 
> I can't think of an elegant way to handle this. Can someone help?
> 
> - I COULD surround each assignment line with a try/except block. But
> that seems very tedious, cumbersome and unwieldy.
> 
> - Alternatively I tought of writing a function 'myFunc' and passing in
> the args as follows: (dict=myDict, key="D", expression="a / b / c"). I
> figured within 'myFunc' I would do:  myDict[key] = eval(expression)
> .......... However that wouldn't work either because the eval would
> fail since the variables will be out of context.
> 
> Any Suggestions??
> 
> -Saqib

Hi Saqib,

I'm still learning and my skills are modest, so I'm posting this as much 
to learn what is wrong with it as to offer help to you. But what about:

 >>> a = 1
 >>> a = 5
 >>> b = 2
 >>> c = 0
 >>> my_dict = {}
 >>> key_list = ['A', 'B', 'C']
 >>> value_list = ['a + b +c', 'a / b / c', 'a - b - c']
 >>> dict_ingredients = zip(key_list, value_list)
 >>> for (k, v) in dict_ingredients:
... 	try:
... 		my_dict[k] = eval(v)
... 	except ZeroDivisionError:
... 		pass
... 	
 >>> my_dict
{'A': 7, 'C': 3}
 >>>



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Mon Oct 18 12:26:49 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:26:49 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <4173eed0$0$29488$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Riccardo Rossi wrote:
> Hi all!
> 
> How does Python pass arguments to a function? By value or by reference?

Both...
Err, no, none.
Well...

*Short answer :*
args are passed by ref, but bindings are local.

*Long answer :*
You first need to understand what 'variables' in Python are. They are in 
fact just a symbol referencing an object. Think of a Python 'variable' 
as an entry in a dict, the name of the variable (the 'symbol') being the 
key and the reference to the object being the value (AFAIK, this is 
exactly what they are).

You also need to understand the difference between mutable and immutable 
objects. Strings, numerics and tuples are immutables. Which means that 
you can not change them. When doing :
s = "Hello "
s += "World"
... you are not modifying the string object bound to s, but creating a 
new string object and binding it to s.

Now for the "By Val/By Ref" stuff... well, try this :

def my_fun(my_arg):
     print "in my_fun, before rebinding my_arg: my_arg = %s" % my_arg
     my_arg = "42"
     print "in my_fun, after rebinding my_arg: my_arg = %s" % my_arg

the_arg = "Life, the Universe, and Everything"

print "before call to my_fun: the_arg = %s" % the_arg
my_fun(the_arg)
print "after call to my_fun: the_arg = %s" % the_arg


You should have somthing like this :

before call to my_fun: the_arg = Life, the Universe, and Everything
in my_fun, before rebinding my_arg: my_arg = Life, the Universe, and 
Everything
in my_fun, after rebinding my_arg: my_arg = 42
after call to my_fun: the_arg = Life, the Universe, and Everything

So what ? are we passing args by value ? Well, retry with :

def my_fun_2(my_arg_2):
     print "in my_fun, before appending to my_arg_2: my_arg_2 = %s" % 
my_arg_2
     my_arg_2.append("42")
     print "in my_fun, after appending to my_arg_2: my_arg_2 = %s" % 
my_arg_2

the_arg_2 = ["Life, the Universe, and Everything"]

print "before call to my_fun_2: the_arg_2 = %s" % the_arg_2
my_fun_2(the_arg_2)
print "after call to my_fun_2: the_arg_2 = %s" % the_arg_2

and what do we get ?

before call to my_fun_2: the_arg_2 = ['Life, the Universe, and Everything']
in my_fun, before appending to my_arg_2: my_arg_2 = ['Life, the 
Universe, and Everything']
in my_fun, after appending to my_arg_2: my_arg_2 = ['Life, the Universe, 
and Everything', '42']
after call to my_fun_2: the_arg_2 = ['Life, the Universe, and 
Everything', '42']

Argh ! So what ? Is it by val or by ref ?
Ok, let's try a third test :

def my_fun_3(my_arg_3):
     print "in my_fun, before rebinding my_arg_3: my_arg_3 = %s" % my_arg_3
     my_arg_3 = ["42"]
     print "in my_fun, after rebinding my_arg_3: my_arg_3 = %s" % my_arg_3

the_arg_3 = ["Life, the Universe, and Everything"]

print "before call to my_fun_3: the_arg_3 = %s" % the_arg_3
my_fun_3(the_arg_3)
print "after call to my_fun_3: the_arg_3 = %s" % the_arg_3

An you get :
before call to my_fun_3: the_arg_3 = ['Life, the Universe, and Everything']
in my_fun, before rebinding my_arg_3: my_arg_3 = ['Life, the Universe, 
and Everything']
in my_fun, after rebinding my_arg_3: my_arg_3 = ['42']
after call to my_fun_3: the_arg_3 = ['Life, the Universe, and Everything']

err... Time for some explanation ?-)

When you call a function with an arg, a "local variable" is created, 
which references the object passed as the argument. (well... an entry 
with the formal parameter name as key and a reference to the object 
passed in is created in the 'local' dict).

So, rebinding this local symbol does not impact the binding in the 
caller's namespace - because the symbol lives in another namespace.

*But* - and if the object referenced is mutable of course - modifying 
the object in the function... well, just modifies the object, because 
it's the *same* object that is bound to ('referenced by', if you prefer) 
both symbols (the one in the caller's namespace and the one in the 
function's namespace). So yes, the object *is* modified when the 
function returns.

(Of course, doing anything to an immutable object is just rebinding the 
symbol, so it won't never have any impact outside the function. So don't 
expect to have a function having side-effects on strings, numerics and 
tuples args. The good news being that this is not necessary, since the 
only reason to do so would be to return multiple values, and Python can 
already return multiple values.)


Does it make sens to you ?-)

> Thanks,
> Riccardo Rossi. 
> 

HTH
Bruno

(Ho, BTW, please read the fine manual - and this too :
http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html)



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sat Oct  2 06:00:51 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:00:51 +0100
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk> <10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
	<cam7d.455$UP1.116@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <yfsacv5h224.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:
> Some of them do you commands.mkarg (the only function I know of in the
> standard library that does shell escaping).  

Thanks -- I didn't know about that (small wonder -- it's undocumented; no
docstring and not in the manual).

'as


From fakeaddress at nowhere.org  Mon Oct  4 23:13:09 2004
From: fakeaddress at nowhere.org (Bryan Olson)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 03:13:09 GMT
Subject: cost of creating threads
In-Reply-To: <cjnea7$elt$1@news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
References: <mailman.4125.1096527938.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cjgdn4$grq$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<h8a7d.4985$nj.3884@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<cjnea7$elt$1@news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <9jo8d.4749$JG2.2241@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

Remco Boerma wrote:
 > Bryan Olson wrote:
 >> Remco Boerma wrote:
 >>  > While you have a tiny server, i would recommend a thread-pool
 >>  > of about 2 to 3 threads. This at least cuts down the time
 >>  > needed for thread creation.
 >>
 >> What happens if all three threads are blocked, perhaps waiting
 >> for server_b, when a new request comes in?
 >
 > I guess it would indeed wait until one of the first 3 threads has closed
 > it's connection, or a timeout occurs. But you ought to test it, just to
 > make sure.

I think you are basically right; that is how most thread-pools
work.  I've concluded that statically-sized thread-pools are
usually a mistake.

 > With a little statistics usage, you would be able to create
 > new threads on the fly if many connections are established in a short
 > time, releasing the threads when idle for x seconds.  . This would allow
 > you to use more resources when needed, and releasing them when done.

That sounds like a reasonable idea, but doing it efficiently
could be tricky.  The most straightforward Python implementation
would probably use the locks-with-timeout in Python's
'threading' module.  The way these are implemented, any positive
timeout means the thread actually goes into a sleep-and-poll
loop.  Keeping a pool this way could be significantly less
efficient than creating each thread on demand.

Most descriptions of thread-pools imply that their primary
purpose is to avoid the overhead of creating and destroying
threads.  In fact, thread pools can provide other services, and
the efficiency motivation is dim and fading.  I posted a program
that times creation of thousands of threads, and running it
shows that modern PC-class machines with modern cheap/free OS's
can create a few thousand threads per second. Coding in C speeds
that up by a factor of a several.  If a program needs dozens, or
even hundreds, of threads every second, it can simply create
them as needed.  No sense solving problems we don't have.

A clever operating system can keep a cache of threads in the
background.  The system can probably make better decisions on
when to create a new thread than can the application programmer.
Do I have runable threads, or are they all blocked?  If some
thread calls to create another thread, I should create it if all
the current threads are blocked.  Otherwise, let the runnable
threads run; if they finish then they can then take on the new
tasks.


Sticking with my time-it-and-see approach, I wrote a simple
thread cache to see how much diffence it makes in my thousands-
of-threads timer.  On my PC, it speeds it up by a factor of five
or six.  In my timer, each thread does almost nothing, and the
more work a thread does the less difference creation time makes.
Still there may be cases where thread creation uses a
significant portion of run-time, and the cache does speed things
up.

My thread cache doesn't limit the total number of threads.
Instead, it limits the number waiting in the cache.  When the
client calls for a thread, if one or more threads is in the
cache, it takes one of those; if not, it (tries to) create a new
one.  When a thread is finished with its task, it checks how
many others are waiting in the cache, and decides whether to
exit or cache itself.

For ease of integration, I wrote it as a module that supports
the same interface as the Python library's 'thread' module.  A
program can simply "import thread_cache as thread".  It's new,
so it's not well-tested.


--Bryan


"""
     Module thread_cache.py
     Same interface as Python library's thread module (which
     it uses), but it keeps a cache of threads.
"""

max_nwaiting = 20

from thread import *

_task = None
_mutex = allocate_lock()
_vacant = allocate_lock()
_occupied = allocate_lock()
_occupied.acquire()
_nwaiting = 0
_start = start_new_thread

def _run():
     global _nwaiting, _task
     go = 1
     while go:
         _occupied.acquire()
         _mutex.acquire()
         (func, args, kwargs) = _task
         _task = None
         _mutex.release()
         _vacant.release()
         func(*args, **kwargs)
         #  Thread might exit with an exception, which is fine.
         _mutex.acquire()
         if _nwaiting < max_nwaiting:
             _nwaiting += 1
         else:
             go = 0
         _mutex.release()

def start_new_thread(func, args=(), kwargs={}):
     global _nwaiting, _task
     _vacant.acquire()
     _mutex.acquire()
     if not _nwaiting:
         try:
             _start(_run, (), {})
         except:
             _mutex.release()
             _vacant.release()
             raise
         _nwaiting += 1
     _task = (func, args, kwargs)
     _nwaiting -= 1
     _mutex.release()
     _occupied.release()


From oliver.eichler at dspsolutions.de  Wed Oct 13 03:03:53 2004
From: oliver.eichler at dspsolutions.de (Oliver Eichler)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:03:53 +0200
Subject: Embedding: Howto get object's dictonary
Message-ID: <ckik0p$hmi$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

having a PyObject pointer to a python object, how can I get the object's
dictionary, if there is any. There seems to be _PyObject_GetDictPtr() but
this looks quite like a internal "you must not use it". 

Thanks for help

Oliver


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct 14 18:13:27 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:13:27 GMT
Subject: The Art of  Pickling: Binary vs Ascii difficulties
In-Reply-To: <416ef368$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <171d9905.0410141128.3104bb95@posting.google.com>
	<416ef368$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <bSCbd.3337$6k2.349@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Scott David Daniels
> This C convention is a violation of the ASCII code as it was then
> defined, in order to save a byte per line (treating '\n' as end-of-line,
> not line-feed).  An ASCII-conforming printer when fed 'a\nb\nc\r\n.\r\n'
> should print:
> a
>  b
>   c
> ..

Standards wonk that I am, I was curious about this.  I've
never read the ASCII spec before.  In my somewhat cursory
search I couldn't find something authoritative on-line that
claimed to be "the" ASCII spec.  I did find RFC 20 "ASCII
format for network interchange" dated October 16, 1969,
so before the C convention was defined.  Here's one copy
   http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc20.html

It says


       LF (Line Feed): A format effector which controls the movement of
    the printing position to the next printing line.  (Applicable also to
    display devices.) Where appropriate, this character may have the
    meaning "New Line" (NL), a format effector which controls the
    movement of the printing point to the first printing position on the
    next printing line.  Use of this convention requires agreement
    between sender and recipient of data.

So it seems that it's not a violation, just a convention.

It happens that MS Windows and Unix (and old Macs) have
different conventions.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct  7 07:01:23 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:01:23 -0400
Subject: wxPython - problem dynamically adding widgets?
In-Reply-To: <37f621d3.0410062111.62c8e304@posting.google.com>
References: <37f621d3.0410041214.305eb3e9@posting.google.com>
	<2didndileqMTf_zcRVn-qA@adelphia.com>
	<37f621d3.0410062111.62c8e304@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DaKdnbUpTNWev_jcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>

Fazan wrote:
> Using the sample code, I was indeed able to get this to work using a
> sizer.  It turns out that my problem was a threading issue; by
> creating the widgets and adding to the sizer in different thread, the
> hanging problem went away.

Sounds dangerous... I hope you were using wx.CallAfter() to
interact with the GUI elements.  I believe you *must* to
avoid potential crashes.  (See 
http://www.wxpython.org/docs/api/wx-module.html#CallAfter)

-Peter


From donnal at donnal.net  Fri Oct 15 09:03:56 2004
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:03:56 -0500
Subject: up with PyGUI!
In-Reply-To: <864d370904092422325c82ac75@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.3318.1095180577.5135.python-list@python.org>	<414783DD.4070509@zephyrfalcon.org>	<4lf4d.15151$pA.1180511@news20.bellglobal.com>	<4151B7C4.6070003@zephyrfalcon.org>
	<2rfnp6F19gkpkU1@uni-berlin.de>	<Xns956D93ADD811BOKB@130.133.1.4>	<864d3709040924070873d4708f@mail.gmail.com>	<Mahogany-0.66.0-960-20040924-221246.00@OKB.mshome.net>
	<864d370904092422325c82ac75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ckohrs$m68$1@sea.gmane.org>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:12:46 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time), Brendan
> Barnwell <brenbarn at brenbarn.net> wrote:
> 
>>        My implementation essentially does this as well.  However, I
>>have devised a metaclass (called ClassObj) that does not actually
>>replace the class with an instance.  Instead, each class keeps a reference
>>to singleton instance.  All attributes are stored on the class object, but
>>methods are forwarded to the instance (since Python won't allow you
>>to call methods on a class).  The advantage of this is that the classes
>>can even be subclassed.  This metaclass largely eliminates the
>>distinction between classes and objects; a ClassObj can effectively
>>function as either.
> 
> 
> Well, it took me sometime to figure out if I should leave inner
> classes as classes or instantiate them. It's funny because my approach
> ends up being similar to yours -- the class is instantiated by the
> metaclass, and in the process the original class declaration is lost,
> which means that it turns into a singleton for all practical purposes.
> 
> The reasons why I decided to instantiate inner classes were:
> 
> 1) It's easier to process the resultin class declaration, because all
> attributes are instances. Before doing it I had to put some "isclass"
> checks to take different actions depending on the type of the
> attribute. It's not needed anymore (not to the same extent, at least).
> 
> 2) The original class is not needed really for subclassing. It's not
> convenient anyway, because you'ld need dot notation to find the inner
> class declaration. My suggestion is that all classes that are supposed
> to be subclassed can be safely declared at the top level, as in:

Pardon me for jumping in late here and without reading the entire thread 
carefully. Nevertheless, you might be interested in the declarative 
syntax developed for Mindwrapper (version 0.3 of which, unfortunately, 
has not yet been released or published). Attached is a screen shot of a 
wxPython panel created with the attached Mindwrapper notation. First of 
all, every mw.Panel or mw.Subpanel has a *buit-in sizer* (that can be 
turned off with cols=0, rows=0). The type of sizer is controlled with 
what appear to be class attributes, but a metaclass takes these 
attributes and uses them to set up the appropriate sizer. Every compound 
presenter is defined using the "assemble/add" syntax that allows one to 
declare proportion = 1, grow = True, for example. Also, the data model 
behind each widget is declared using "args = ref.tPeak" for example.

If you are interested in the implementation I am planning to make it 
available soon, but I am still adding presenters and working on 
documentation.

Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital
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From missive at frontiernet.net  Wed Oct 27 17:24:46 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:24:46 GMT
Subject: ReportLab newbie
References: <2uac8bF2802bfU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnco04gs.ovm.missive@homer.localdomain>

On 2004-10-27, Damjan <gdamjan at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying this script with reportlab:
>
> from reportlab.pdfbase import pdfmetrics
> from reportlab.pdfbase.ttfonts import TTFont
> fontname = 'Arial-Bold'
> my_TTF = '/opt/Fonts/arial.ttf'
> font = TTFont(fontname, my_TTF)
> pdfmetrics.registerFont(font)
>
> But the register complains with this exception:
>
> ValueError: _tt2ps_map[('arial', 1, 0)]==Arial-Bold already, not Arial
>
> what does it mean?
>


Sorry, not sure, but reportlab has an active and quite
supportive mailing list if no one here has an answer:

http://www.reportlab.org/
http://two.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/reportlab-users




From DesertLinux at netscape.net  Tue Oct 19 11:50:00 2004
From: DesertLinux at netscape.net (Byron)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:50:00 GMT
Subject: Python Newbie
In-Reply-To: <cl2mdn$a6n$1@news.swman.net.uk>
References: <cl2mdn$a6n$1@news.swman.net.uk>
Message-ID: <IIadd.1294$%h1.89@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi Josh,

Welcome to the Python forums!

I have worked with both PERL and Python over the years.  I first started 
out with PERL and thought it was a wonderful language, but found it to 
be difficult to develop within.  Here are the reasons why I make the 
switch from PERL to Python:

1) Both PERL and Python are powerful languages.  However, Python takes a 
couple of days to learn, where as it took me several months to learn 
PERL.   (PERL is not a very user-friendly language and tends to be very 
similar to C / C++ in style, which are known for being hard for 
beginners to acquire.)  However, on the Python side, there are plenty of 
FREE documentation (and tutorials) that will teach you Python quickly 
and get you up to speed.  One of the best free, online tutorials is: 
http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/

2) Python code is very easy to read and modify -- PERL is not.  Python 
code has been considered to be a language at the "speed of thought" 
because fairly new programmers can take a piece of code from an advanced 
user, understand what it does, and then make changes to it.  However, 
PERL is very different from this.  PERL comes with 101+ ways of 
accomplishing a simple task -- thus making program modifications very 
difficult to accomplish.  Some people have even said that PERL is a 
"read-only" language -- due to the fact that people have a hard time 
making changes to other people's programs.

3) Python is a FREE, open source programming language that runs on 
multiple platforms.  For example, you can use Python on a Windows-based 
PC, Unix, Linux, Solaris, and even the Macintosh.  In other words, when 
you write a program in Python, you can easily run it on virtually all 
machines out there -- without having to rewrite the code for each 
individual machine.

4) Python has a large collection of free, built-in utilities that allow 
you to work with a large collection of databases, process data from web 
pages, send files though a network connection, download mail from email 
servers, perform data backups, etc.  This is one reason why Python is 
known as a language that comes with "batteries included."

5) Python is object-oriented, which means that you can accomplish as 
much as one can with PERL, yet have the benefits of a language that is 
fast and easily to learn.

6) Python code can be integrated with other programming languages and is 
sometimes referred to as a "glue" language.  It can be integrated with 
Java, C, and others.

7) Many cutting edge companies and organizations are now using Python. 
To learn more, visit:  http://www.python.org/community/users.html

Hope this helps,

Byron
---



abhay wrote:
> I am confused between learning Python or learning Perl. Please any view,
> opinions and suggestions are welcomed.
> 
> josh
> 
> 


From golux at comcast.net  Sat Oct 23 14:34:18 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:34:18 -0400
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <864d37090410230912795a565e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>	<QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>	<mailman.5357.1098540970.5135.python-list@python.org>	<jtidnZlHj6049OfcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>	<mailman.5359.1098542166.5135.python-list@python.org>	<2-idnfYPRs9d8-fcRVn-oA@powergate.ca>
	<864d37090410230912795a565e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <417AA42A.4040403@comcast.net>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:46:24 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>David Wilson wrote:
>>
>>>NAME
>>>    ConfigParser - Configuration file parser.
>>>
>>>The 'config' object you refer to does not appear to be implemented by
>>>the ConfigParser module.
>>
>>Ah, there's the conflict.  [explanation of conflict elided]
> 
> I agree with Peter -- that's the whole point of this discussion. The
> question can be re-stated as, "do we need a configuration object or a
> configuration parser object"? The former is able to read/write itself
> from a text file (using INI, or other suitable format); the latter
> only reads a INI file and parses it.

As David Wilson's own description implies, ConfigParser
has an implicit -- but apparently essential -- constraint
to avoid

"incompatibility with how Microsoft did it ... in .INI land ..."

It seems a shame (to put it mildly) that a Python standard
module with no explicit reference to Microsoft should be
constrained by a Microsoft syntax.  If this is indeed that case,
I would suggest that the name of the ConfigParser module should
be changed to something more transparent, such as
"MS_INI_ConfigParser" or some such, thereby leaving the
namespace open for a more general ConfigParser module which
could have more capabilities and fewer constraints.  IMO it
is a *bad* idea to give a specifically targeted module a
name that implies a scope larger than the module actually has.

Steve


From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Wed Oct 20 08:50:28 2004
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:50:28 +0200
Subject: Can Python run on the Internet
References: <cl58ko$2l0$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20041020125028.7D6F.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

John Mowbray wrote:

> I'd like to use Python in my classes, but some students do not have a
> pc. 

Python can run on any many operating systems.

> They do have access to Internet-connected systems, though.

So they can run python there.

> Is  
> there a site someplace on the Internet (preferably a web server) where
> someone can submit a Python program to be run? 

You will need unix shell to do that - hard thing to find such for free,
 but you can try at metawire.org.

> Telnet may be possible 
> to use, 

Forget telnet, use ssh. Noone allows telnet connections today.

> but a browser would be ideal. 

You would have to write web application that passes code from webpage to
python.

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl

In the course of a lifetime, what does it matter?


From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Sat Oct 23 07:01:39 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 11:01:39 GMT
Subject: How to start a new thread ?
References: <mailman.5301.1098433895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<81a41dd.0410230127.6c59f6f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncnkegj.7ft.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On 23 Oct 2004 02:27:13 -0700, Lad <export at hope.cz> wrote:
> Tim Golden <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.5301.1098433895.5135.python-list at python.org>...
>> 
>> import os
>> os.system ("/path/to/other/script.py")
>> 
> Dear Tim,
> Thank you for the idea but it does not work without problems.
> Your solution with os.system like 
> os.system('start Script1.py')
> os.system('start Script2.py')
>
> works( without problems) if I start the main script from console.
> Os.system opens a new console window and starts a child script in each
> console window.
> But
> if I start the main script from a browser, and that is what I want,
> like http://myserver/cgi-bin/ParentScript.py
> the ParentScript.py does not open a new WEB BROWSER window but starts
> a new CONSOLE window.
> But I would like to open  each child script in a WEB BROWSER window
> not in console window. How can I do that?

It can't be done. The web browser decides when and how to open windows,
your script can only send output to the browser and hope it does
something vaguely like what you want. Some web browsers don't
support multiple windows, for example.

You could send the browser some Javascript and on sufficiently insecure
browsers that Javascript could make the browser open a new window
and make a HTTP request which starts another script.

-- 
Sam Holden


From m_vddungen at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 04:54:37 2004
From: m_vddungen at yahoo.com (Marcel van den Dungen)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 01:54:37 -0700
Subject: Python in HTAs
References: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5091.1098050399.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <98862c6.0410180054.1efff058@posting.google.com>

Robby Russell <robby at planetargon.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.5091.1098050399.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> This isn't going to work unless your browser has some special plugin to
> allow python scripts to run in it. Google probably turned up nothing as
> you might be one of the first people to consider this. ;-)
> 
> -Robby
> 
Well, that would be too much credit ;-)
PythonCard once shipped with 2 HTAs written in Python (Pyker.hta and
PykerLaunch.hta). I managed to plug them from CVS, but could not get them
to work either.

Why is it possible to use Python from ASP, but not from an HTA?

Thanks,
Marcel


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct  4 13:19:46 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:19:46 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <41616B9B.1080009@fastmail.fm>
References: <41616B9B.1080009@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20041004101511.FECD.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> How hard/easy is it to extend the Python syntax?  Perhaps there are 

Check out the tokenizer module.


> macro facilities for this?

Python has no macro facilities.


> I'd like to add messages and message 
> passing, for example.

Macros are not necessary for message passing.  There are at least a
dozen message passing libraries for inter and intra-machine
communications, including versions that work with DCOM, Corba, MPI, and
I'm sure just about anything else you could want to do.

Heck, writing message passing with TCP sockets is even quite easy, if
you have experience with writing network protocols.

If you are just wanting to pass messages in your program, and you are
using threads, use the Queue module (in 2.4 it will be faster).

 - Josiah



From gl.sartori at tiscali.it  Sat Oct 30 17:35:44 2004
From: gl.sartori at tiscali.it (Gianluca Sartori)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:35:44 GMT
Subject: diacanvas.view error
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.30.21.35.42.5750@tiscali.it>

Hi guys,

>>> import diacanvas
Fatal Python error: can't initialise module diacanvas.view
Abortito

I'm running Debian 3.0 + python2.3 + python2.3-diacanvas2. This problem
appeared after installing/removing "dia".

Any idea?

Cheers,
Gianluca


From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 25 15:54:32 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:54:32 -0300
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca> <m31xfmwqwb.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<m3sm82vbrv.fsf@g2ctech.com> <tvSdnT7V_p2Yy-DcRVn-3Q@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <m3breqvaiv.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Now you tell me.  :-)

OK.  You see you made some effort lifting those rocks agains me and you
didn't need that :-)  I just thought I should make that clear after I
read my own post.

> It's probably the case in the majority of markets that one is
> obligated to provide some kind of support for the products one sells.

And the license isn't a factor that redeems one from that obligation
here.  That was my point.  It doesn't matter what is written in GPL: all
parts of it that goes against the law for a software sold here to a
brazilian client are considered automatically invalid and disregarded in
court or somewhere else the problem is taken to. 

> I'm betting these laws have not yet been applied to the *freely
> provided source code* that accompanies open source software, even if
> the distribution of the software itself (not the source) is matched by
> a big fat cheque from the customer.  And I'll bet they won't be any
> time soon.

There are several discussions on the validity of GPL here.  Some say
that it is a valid license, other that it needs to be remodeled, and
other say that it isn't appliable at all.

I am subscribed to three or four mailing list with lots of lawyers
discussing that (IANAL, but I know a lot of them ;-)). 



As a side note... Our government is going towards free (as in free
speech) software (one example of that is http://www.softwarelivre.gov.br
-- which is powered by Zope and uses Plone ;-)) so that might make
things easier should a conflict come true (but, then, even the
government can't go against the law -- but they have some power to
change it... ;-)).

There is an "approved" version of a translation of GPL (yes, if the
license isn't in Brazilian Portuguese it is also invalid) and some work
at the congress to make free software completely viable and end with the
uncertainty I talked above.

I hope it succeeds.


Be seeing you,
-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Oct 22 05:04:24 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:04:24 +0200
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <1gm17rf.1n3hurm1vtl1cbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <20041021081356.GA12496@mylene.ghaering.de>
	<mailman.5255.1098349524.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm17rf.1n3hurm1vtl1cbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041022090424.GB18573@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 12:33:34AM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Simon Brunning <simon.brunning at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Which is not to say that the current DB-API should be used. There have
> > been discussions elsewhere about improving and simplifying the DB-API
> > - providing iterators, getting rid of all but one of the parameter
> > styles, that kind of thing. Perhaps the best thing would be to agree a
> > DB-API version 3.0 over on the DB SIG, then make sure that the built
> > in module supports that.
> 
> Amen, hallelujah.

I'm all for it, but it's depressing that talks about it have been on
the DB-SIG mailing list since years. The question is, if the DB-API
3.0 should be a usable interface for application programming itself,
or if it should still only be a driver API where higher-level modules
need to be built on top to make it actually useful and enjoyable.
Currently, people either do that, swear and use stuff like the crappy
index-based access for columns, or use nonstandard extensions to the
DB-API like dictfetch() methods or PgResultSet in PySQLite/pyPgSQL.

If we really want this solved, we can try further discussion on the
DB-SIG list, or maybe we could get a DB-API 3.0 sprint organized?  I
don't know if an IRC meeting would get us further faster, but it's
worth a try.

If all else fails, and consensus cannot be reached, then IMO it's time
to fork and see if the courageous or the (extremely) conservative
approach is accepted better by the community.

> > [...] But you if you were using another engine, you'd only need to
> > change this to:
> > 
> > from sql import sql
> > from other_engine import other_engine
> > other_database = sql.Engine(other_engine)
> > my_database = other_database.Database('c:/myotherdatabese.db',
> > 'user_id', 'password')
> > 
> > >From there on in, ideally you wouldn't have to change *anything*.
> 
> Young and idealistic, I assume.  Care to name two more SQL engines
> accepting exactly the same dialect as sqlite...?-)

I was almost making a similar comment :-)

-- Gerhard
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From lbates at syscononline.com  Wed Oct  6 19:19:51 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:19:51 -0500
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
In-Reply-To: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <dNCdnaWl4usP4PncRVn-qA@comcast.com>

Erik Johnson <ej <at> wellkeeper wrote:
>     I am rather new to Python and still learning the finer points. I wanted
> to have a class which has a member dictionary of other class instances, a
> constructor that would initiate that dict with an empty dict if you didn't
> provide one, and a member function to stick more other classes into that
> dictionary.
> 
> I wrote something akin to this:
> 
> #! /usr/bin/python
> 
> #=======================================================================
> class Bar:
> 
>     def __init__(self, foo_d={}):
>         self.foo_d = foo_d
> 
>     def add_foo(self, foo):
>         self.foo_d[foo.key] = foo
> #=======================================================================
> 
> 
> #=======================================================================
> class Foo:
>     pass
> #=======================================================================
> 
> 
>     You might be surprised to find out that all the Bar objects end up
> sharing the same foo_d dictionary.
>     I certainly was.
> 
> 
> 
>>>>from Test import *
>>>>b1 = Bar()
>>>>b2 = Bar()
>>>>dir(b1)
> 
> ['__doc__', '__init__', '__module__', 'add_foo', 'foo_d']
> 
>>>>b1.foo_d
> 
> {}
> 
>>>>b2.foo_d
> 
> {}
> 
>>>>f = Foo()
>>>>f.key = 'key'
>>>>b1.add_foo(f)
>>>>b1.foo_d
> 
> {'key': <Test.Foo instance at 0x817821c>}
> 
>>>>b2.foo_d
> 
> {'key': <Test.Foo instance at 0x817821c>}
> 
> 
>     A single, shared dictionary is definitely not what I wanted or expected
> and didn't see why it was happening.  So... I struggled with that for a
> while and eventually reasoned that the {} in the argument list to my
> constructor is executed at the time of class definition, and is essentially
> a reference to an instantiated dictionary object and therefor there is a
> little empty dictionary sitting in memory somewhere prior to me ever
> instantiating a Bar object. New Bar objects constructed without providing
> their own foo_d end up sharing that one.  I think this makes sense enough,
> now  (if I'm missing something, speak up).
> 
>     So, one work-around is to do this:
> 
> #=======================================================================
> class Bar:
> 
>     def __init__(self, foo_d=None)
>         if foo_d:
>             self.foo_d = foo_d
>         else:
>             self.foo_d = {}
> #=======================================================================
> 
> 
>      This works. I reasoned that, unlike above, the {} in this definition is
> not executed until a Bar object is instantiated. But there is a little voice
> in my head saying "This is clunky. There must be some smarter, more Pythonic
> way to do this sort of default handling without ending up with a single
> shared object"  As I said, I am pretty new to Python and I am pretty pleased
> with Python so far and expect to be using it more and more, (currently
> porting and re-writing a lot of clunky PHP). I figured I might as well take
> the time to learn this finer point now.
> 
>     This example is trivial and it may seem silly to waste time considering
> the 5 lines in my constructor, but this is just a pared down skeleton of the
> problem I ran into and I am about to write lots of classes with lots of
> members and want to call constructors with different numbers of arguments
> and have different sorts of defaults (not necessarily shared, but maybe) for
> the arguments not passed explicitly. And so, if my workaround above is not a
> very clean one, I want to learn to do it the right way before I amplify it
> 1000X.
> 
>     So... Yes? Is there a better way to do this sort of thing, or is that
> perfectly reasonable code?
> 
>     Thanks for taking the time to read my post! :)
> 
> -ej
> 
> 

I write this as:

#=======================================================================
class Bar:

     def __init__(self, foo_d=None)
         self.foo_d = foo_d or {}
#=======================================================================

but it is basically the same thing as others have suggested.  Seems to
make it into a "one-liner" and I think the overhead is quite small to
evaluate the boolean 'or'.

Larry Bates


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 19:00:04 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 00:00:04 +0100
Subject: Authentication from urllib2
Message-ID: <sr3jn0d4nu6ic5eksjdr6d2i7rmi31ds3n@4ax.com>

I'm trying to do Basic authentication using urllib2 and
HTTPPasswordMgr Objects.

According to my understanding I ought to perform the following simple
sequence (except it doesn't work). Can someone cast their eyes over it
and see what I'm doing wrong please.............

import urllib2 

theurl = 'http://www.somerestrictedserver.com'
username = 'somebody'
password = 'XXXXX'         # a great password
therealm = 'theRealm'

passman = urllib2.HTTPPasswordMgr()     
passman.add_password(therealm, theurl, username, password)     

authhandler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler(passman)                 
opener = urllib2.build_opener(authhandler)

req = urllib2.Request(theurl)
filehandle = opener.open(req)
print filehandle.read()

Ideally I would like to use HTTPPasswordMgrWithDefaultRealm() and
specify None for the realm. I would also like to install the opener
and just use urllib2.urlopen rather than using the opener directly. 

When I run this I still get a 401 HTTPError. I would expect the opener
to recognise the realm and retry the request (handle the error using
hte handler I have provided..).

Regards,


Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html



From jerf at jerf.org  Sat Oct  9 14:15:39 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 18:15:39 GMT
Subject: proposals for having more fun with map
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410091223580.27361-100000@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.09.15.35.59.500366@jerf.org>

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 13:10:51 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote:

> hi all,
> 
> i've got a few proposals to do, in one way or another, with the map
> builtin. i'd like to hear what people think.

Most of your proposals are implementable today with a pure Python module,
albeit with some subclasses of built-ins. 

If you're serious about this, I'd suggest bundling all your suggestions
into a module and pointing people at them to try them out, including
several examples of the advantages you want to point out.

The best argument for proposals is to try it and find it useful, and since
yours are easy to implement, I'd suggest taking advantage of that. 



From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Oct  5 17:15:27 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:15:27 +0200
Subject: Memory grows (without bound); doesn't if code is in function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4355.1096993003.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4355.1096993003.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41630eee$0$48933$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> I wrote this program, and when I ran it the Python process grew to 200+
> megs, and I was forced to kill it:
>     # Program 1: code at module level
>     import itertools
>     j = 0
>     for i in itertools.count():
>         j = j + str(i).count("1")
>         if j == i: print i
> 

Weird. This program runs fine on my systems (win xp and mandrake-linux 10.0,
both usig python 2.3.4 ... using about 3.5 to 4mb memory.)
Perhaps it's a python 2.3.2 thing that was fixed in 2.3.3 or 2.3.4?

--Irmen.


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct  6 22:35:03 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 02:35:03 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4415.1097051270.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4164a43a.3914128499@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 09:29:07 +0100, Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote:

>
>[Richard]
>> I could care less honestly.
>
>[Grant]
>> I've always been curious about that phrase.  It seems to imply
>> that you _do_ care, since it would be possible for you to care
>> less than you do.  Shouldn't the expression be "I couldn't care
>> less"?
>
>In the UK we say "I couldn't care less".
>

Perhaps Richard was proposing the notion that he could care differently.
(i.e., less honestly ;-)
(Otherwise, IMO, there should have been a comma after his "less.")

>One theory is that in the US it has become the sarcastic opposite of
>itself, as in "tell me about it" or "I should be so lucky".
>
>Another theory is that it's been mangled through overuse - the
>individual syllables ceased to matter a long time ago, and the "n't" was
>lost because of sloppy speech.
>
>As revealed by PSU Research Paper "UU788", the *real* reason is a side
>effect of the nanovirus encroaching into non-whitespace, as first
>proposed by "UU355" and then earlier proven (twice, as it turned out) by
>"UU6 9".  The only defence is t*^$Z:%Z* NO CARRIER
>
My linguistic feature-clustering/distribution detector signals significant
probability of non-English-first-language when scanning Richard's prose.
Possible origin: planet U^g%%

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Wed Oct  6 11:35:52 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:35:52 +0200
Subject: Using select([sys.stdin]) on windows xp
In-Reply-To: <fc30bff.0410060656.58b30487@posting.google.com>
References: <fc30bff.0410060656.58b30487@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck13co$i86$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp>

John Taylor wrote:
> According the the Python docs:
> On Windows, the underlying select() function is provided by the
> WinSock library, and does not handle file desciptors that don't
> originate from WinSock.

The Win32 functions are
- WaitForSingleObject (to wait with a short timeout)
- GetStdHandle (to get at the Win32 handle for sys.stdin)

Try Mark Hammonds Win32 extension if these functions are exported to Python.

Another possibility would be to use threads.

Daniel


From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Fri Oct  8 05:54:15 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:54:15 +0200
Subject: Determining whether it's a file or a directory?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.08.09.39.09.841069@hotmail.com>
References: <pan.2004.10.08.09.39.09.841069@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <416663C7.5010805@cenix-bioscience.com>

Dfenestr8 wrote:

>os.listdir("path") returns the names of all the items in a directory ok,
>but I need to know whether the item is a file or a directory.
>
>Can anybody tell me how this could be done?
>  
>
os.path.isdir("path")

Aaron



From cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu  Wed Oct 13 14:36:39 2004
From: cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu (Christopher J. Bottaro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:36:39 -0500
Subject: passing threading.Thread() and function object
References: <ckjr96$d14$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<1097692015.12092.250.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <ckjsdc$d14$2@sea.gmane.org>

Cliff Wells wrote:

> You are *calling* self.somefunc in your instantiation.  You need to pass
> a reference to the method instead.

Whoops, indeed I am.  Ouch, that was stupid mistake.  Thanks for the help!

Egads, now that you've pointed it out, I can't believe missed the
documentation for "target" arg in the threading.Thread documentation.

Thanks a bunch.



From vegard at mail.com  Thu Oct  7 07:10:20 2004
From: vegard at mail.com (Vegard Bakke)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 04:10:20 -0700
Subject: XSL transform with Python
References: <33a013af.0410060646.3a821dc7@posting.google.com>
	<416431ea$0$25965$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <33a013af.0410070310.7264a4cd@posting.google.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<416431ea$0$25965$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> Theres no "THE" xslt library for Python, as far as I know.

Will there ever be one? Any of the existing packages that will be
taken up as part of the standard distribution of Python? Doesn't look
like XSLT is going to disappear in the first few years.

Cheers,
Vegard

Don't reply to the address above, It's a spam trap and won't be read
-- 
My spelling is Wobbly.  It's good spelling but it Wobbles, 
and the letters get in the wrong places. 
                                           Winnie the Pooh


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 09:10:11 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:10:11 +0200
Subject: C API eqivalent of object.__new__
References: <tyfis9uewct.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyfekkieka4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1gkzg4y.a7sne11n04ng0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
> 
> > How would one write object._new__(SomeType) in the C API ?
> 
> PyInstance_NewRaw(PyObject *class, [PyObject* dict])
> 
> seems to be the way to do this for classic classes. How would one do
> it for new-style classes?

You mean something like:
PyObject_CallMethod( (PyObject*)&PyBaseObject_Type,
                                "__new__", "O", clas);
?
 
> Also, how would one create a new-style class "dynamically" in the C
> API? IOW, what's the new-style equivalent of PyClass_New? or, put
> another way, how would you write
> 
>   type(name, (), dict)
> 
> in the C API ?

You mean something like:
PyObject_CallFunctionObjArgs(
                          (PyObject*)&PyType_Type,
                          classname, classbases, classdict,
                          NULL);
?

There may be faster ways, but I generally start writing extensions by
keeping the C code as "close" to equivalent Python code as I can, which
means lots of use of PyObject_... level functions.  If and when I need
to squeeze out the last few cycles, I may dig into those for
optimization purposes, but what was that quip about premature
optimization, again....?-)


Alex


From johng2001 at rediffmail.com  Thu Oct 28 23:29:52 2004
From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 20:29:52 -0700
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ba129ce7.0410281929.35f70763@posting.google.com>

> Table 25-1, "Relative Execution Time of Programming Languages", on
> page 600 of the book "Code Complete, 2nd Edition" by Steve McConnell
> (a well-known author) has the following statistics, based on
> benchmarks described by the author in chapters 25-26. A larger number
> means the language is slower.
> 
> Language       Type of Language     Execution Time Relative to C++
> C++            compiled             1
> Visual Basic   compiled             1
> C#             compiled             1
> Java           byte code            1.5
> PHP            interpreted          >100
> Python         interpreted          >100
> 
> I think Python is slower than C++ or Fortran for number-crunching,
> based on some experience with Numeric, but the speed factor is more
> often in the range of 2-10, not >100. McConnell's benchmarks are more
> general. I doubt the assertion that VB is as fast C++. Replacing a VBA
> function in Excel with a C dll can lead to big increase in speed.

Believe it :-). VB5 and VB6 can be compiled to native code and has
more or less identical performance to equivalent C code. And why
should not it? VBA implementation in VB is statically typed, well
optimized and not even as expressive as C. There is no kind of
developer productivity overhead like you see in Python :-). If your VB
code is running slower in VB6, chances are you are using variants and
other less optimizable features.

VBA in MS Office is interpreted (not even p-code) and your C dll will
improve performance a lot, but not much in VB5/VB6.

I actually benchmarked this 4 years ago. VB4 code ran 30 times slower
compared to when using a C dll. VB5 code ran at about the same speed
as C.

If I remember, there was also a benchmark in MSDN (back in 1998 or so)
which showed VB as native code running only 50% slower than C.

Vendors such as PowerBasic who sell native compiled BASIC variants
claim C or better than C performance.


From sridharinfinity at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 21:52:46 2004
From: sridharinfinity at gmail.com (Sridhar  R)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 18:52:46 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1098841966.907789.126460@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

So your customers are non-programmers, right?



From jadethacker at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 15 17:59:41 2004
From: jadethacker at hotmail.com (mee-shell)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 14:59:41 -0700
Subject: Calculate the Timespan with wxDateTime
Message-ID: <3d199ee1.0410151359.16562bed@posting.google.com>

I am a newbie of python.  I just started to look at the wxDateTime in
wx and wanted to know how to use the AddTS method to calculate the
timespan.  Thanks.


From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Oct  9 01:15:02 2004
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 09:15:02 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: very small python smtpish send
In-Reply-To: <ck7mdn$n2i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <ck7mdn$n2i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410090911370.1785@rnd.onego.ru>

On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Brad Tilley wrote:

>Anyone know of a small Python script that acts as a slimmed down smtp
>server (just sends from the local machine)? I currently use a smtp
>server for sending email reports from machines, but as machines travel
>outside of our lan, the smtp server refuses to relay their messages. So,
>I thought it would be better if each machine had its own little mail
>sender this way, it could continue reporting no matter where it was located.

It is not good to send mail from anywhere because direct smtp from
arbitrary IPs are often considered spamish. Consider setting up
secure smtp server which will receive authenticated mail from any
corporate client on special port.

>These are all Windows machines... is there a Windows equivalent to
>'stdin | mail -s "Subject" email at email.com' that comes on most Unix
>machines?



Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 13 20:37:34 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:37:34 -0400
Subject: How to catch exceptions elegantly in this situation?
In-Reply-To: <e431ae34.0410071913.15954ed5@posting.google.com>
References: <e431ae34.0410071913.15954ed5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <IXjbd.1124$HG3.596@lakeread04>

Saqib Ali wrote:

> Check out the following code fragment
> 
> Line  1: myDict = {}
> Line  2: a = 5
> Line  3: b = 2
> Line  4: c = 0
> Line  5: myDict["A"] = a + b + c
> Line  6: myDict["B"] = a - b - c
> Line  7: myDict["C"] = a * b * c
> Line  8: myDict["D"] = a / b / c
> Line  9: myDict["E"] = a ** b ** c
> Line 10: ...<etc>...
> Line 11: ...<etc>...
> Line 12: ...<etc>...
> 
> An exception will be raised at line #7 because of division by zero.
> I want the exception to be caught, printed, but then I want the flow
> to continue to line #8 and onwards. I want this behaviour on EACH
> assignment line. (Line 5 onwards). IE: Do the assignment. If an
> exception is raised, print the exception and continue to the next
> assignment.
> 
> I can't think of an elegant way to handle this. Can someone help?
> 
> - I COULD surround each assignment line with a try/except block. But
> that seems very tedious, cumbersome and unwieldy.
> 
> - Alternatively I tought of writing a function 'myFunc' and passing in
> the args as follows: (dict=myDict, key="D", expression="a / b / c"). I
> figured within 'myFunc' I would do:  myDict[key] = eval(expression)
> ........... However that wouldn't work either because the eval would
> fail since the variables will be out of context.
> 
> Any Suggestions??
> 
Read the recent thread on resumab le exceptions: it isn't available 
right now, and it doesn;t seem likely to be.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 31 12:58:24 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:58:24 -0700
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails
	...	python on ?)
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.31.18.43.39.352636@large.net>
References: <mailman.5728.1099211579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.31.18.43.39.352636@large.net>
Message-ID: <20041031105512.0C3A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


flab ba <flab at large.net> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:24:31 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
> > You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
> > (www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.
> > 
> >  - Josiah
> 
> You're right - that web site does look quite spiffy. I was deciding on
> Quixote for my web app framework, but even the author claims that it isn't
> the right framework if you think a website is a graphics design problem.
> 
> I'm not a graphics designer, but I need more spiffyness than the MEMS web
> site - which is done in Quixote.

I have no experience with any web development frameworks, so have little
to say in regards to them.  I hope that Quixote, or whichever framework
you choose, ends up being the right choice for you.

 - Josiah



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Wed Oct 13 15:52:41 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 19:52:41 GMT
Subject: fileinput module dangerous?
References: <62e38ff3.0410122057.105c87ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncmr2an.kv6.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On 12 Oct 2004 21:57:40 -0700, Chris Connett <chrisconnett at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just started working with the fileinput module, and reading the bit
> about inplace modification, it seems very dangerous:
> 
> From the doc:
> ---
> Optional in-place filtering: if the keyword argument inplace=1 is
> passed to input() or to the FileInput constructor, the file is moved
> to a backup file and standard output is directed to the input file
> 
> **(if a file of the same name as the backup file already exists, it
> will be replaced silently)**.
...
> 
> This seems like very dangerous behavior, as .bak is a very common and
> useful extension for old versions of files users would like to keep
> around, and this module obliterates files one would not expect it to
> touch.  This behavior is also very un-Pythonic.

(The end user probably doesn't care if this is Pythonic or not when it
clobbers her files ...)

I had no idea it worked like this -- thanks for pointing it out!
It was such an obvious import of the Perl idiom:
    perl -pi -e 's/a/b/' file1 file2 ...
    perl -pi.bak -e 's/a/b/' file1 file2 ...
which clobbers existing .bak files -- /if you tell it to, not otherwise/.
Anything else is insane.

(Perl will happily overwrite write-protected files, at least under Unix, but
that's a different story...)

> Is there a rational reason it's this way, or should I start working on
> a patch?

I can't see how there could be a reason. I'd welcome a patch.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Oct  6 03:45:02 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 06 Oct 2004 09:45:02 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.4358.1096995671.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfy8ikb88x.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:

> On the other hand, no one in the Python world really describes
> instance.method() as passing a message to 'instance' with the value of
> 'method'.

This is not true.

Proof by counterexample:  I sometimes do.

QED.

:-)


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 09:58:32 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 06:58:32 -0700
Subject: Ergonomics (was Re: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <864d370904101306021fa7ece4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <du7r7oa1dst.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<I4j9d.5365$UP1.2717@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<du7655lh914.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.4800.1097635300.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7r7o3ytii.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<1097654015.10090.22.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<864d370904101306021fa7ece4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1097675912.12092.131.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 10:02 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

> 3) design a new block of keys, similar to the (Insert/Delete,
> Home/End, PgUp/PgDn) block, with quick punctuation symbols --
> parenthesis, brackets, square brackets, angle brackets, slashes
> (forward and back), hyphen+underline, and similar pairings. A vertical
> block of keys, with two columns, five rows -- it's enough for most
> pairings without a shift key.
> 
> _If_ I was to design my own keyboard, I would probably keep it Qwerty
> (already used to it, and also, changing it makes difficult to use
> anything else); but I would probably implement option (3) for
> frequently used symbols.

That's not a bad idea.  A screwdriver, a spare keyboard from which to
steal keys, and xmodmap would let you replace the numeric keypad with
the punctuation characters.  You could still have your numbers, just
replace the cursor functions (numlock off) with the punctuation codes
(assuming the cursor codes on the numeric keypad differ from the codes
on the regular arrow keys?  Have to check on that.).  

Still, I think that since it requires that your hands leave the home row
that not much would be gained.  I can shift+key faster than I can move
my right hand to the arrow keys or the numeric keypad.

A former coworker of mine had an interesting ergonomic keyboard that had
a foot pedal for accessing extra keys.  This might be a superior
solution for many people (disabilities or chronic foot-tapping
notwithstanding).

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Oct 20 06:50:43 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 12:50:43 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<tyfsm8b9kqm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1glxal0.rxjtsr1pbf0guN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfoeixycsh.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1glyd70.1bwulqk17xnrcrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyf6555hdgt.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <tyf1xfthddo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> Well, the original question _was_ (I prapharse) "by *reference*, or by
> value?". Given that C++ allows you to choose, why not choose?

... and if I had bothered to read the thread title I could have said
that the original question was _exactly_ "By value or by reference?".

:-)


From j at jochem.{N0SP4M}.tv  Mon Oct  4 06:34:08 2004
From: j at jochem.{N0SP4M}.tv (Berends)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:34:08 +0200
Subject: detecting socket in use on localhost
In-Reply-To: <1gl4rpq.12u4nyvzumwjlN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <cjqssg$bh7$1@news.tudelft.nl>
	<1gl4lmg.1das1ob1esi359N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cjr140$jde$1@news.tudelft.nl>
	<1gl4rpq.12u4nyvzumwjlN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cjr8uv$osk$1@news.tudelft.nl>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Berends <j at jochem.{N0SP4M}.tv> wrote:

> Oh yes, an unstated corollary of my 'If' above was: if you don't care
> about cross-platform portability AND are using a good platform, then
> there are no doubt better solutions!

_I_ use a good platform, but my boss wants me to make it x-platform ;)

Wrote the code. Seems to be working just fine:

[code]
def determineAvailablePort():
     t = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
     t.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)

     # Set the first port to bind to, to the minimum port in the range.
     prt = 16000
     isConnected = False
     while not isConnected:
         try:
             t.bind( (myInfo["host"], prt ) )
             isConnected = True
             t.close()
             del t
         except socket.error:
             prt += 1
             if prt > 16029:
                 raise Exception

     return prt
[/code]


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 17 04:19:44 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:19:44 -0700
Subject: Python Library Reference is tutorial, not reference
In-Reply-To: <864d370904101616085c4caf54@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20041016141457.09EA.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<864d370904101616085c4caf54@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041016181142.09F0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> There's nothing like reading good source code to learn to program in
> *any* language. However, there's something that pure source code don't
> tell you, thats the *context* behind its design: the intentions, the
> limitations (which may not be obivous), and the somewhat difficult
> design choices faced by the programmer. For this, good comments are
> important, but nothing beats good reference documentation. In my
> opinion, it should not tell only what each function and argument does:
> it should state how it is supposed to be used, and why does it make
> sense.

Current Python documentation describes the functionality of each
function and method.  Pydoc gives you APIs and the docstring if one is
available.

The only place you are likely to discover rationale is in the source
code itself.  The code for sorting lists has great rationale as for why
Python uses 'Timsort', and not another algorithm.

What it seems like you are suggesting is that the API reference should
get copies of "why we do this here" as listed in the source code. While
it would be interesting, I am not sure it should necessarily be a part
of the documentation (especially API documentation).  People read
documentation because they want to learn how to use something; those
that really want to understand the internals, and why it was designed
and built the way it was, go to the source.


> As for complaining but not writing it myself... well, I really dont
> feel comfortable doing that. English is not my native language, and
> I'm afraid that the material that I write would not be good enough for
> Python's documentation standard. It's one thing to post at c.l.py, and
> another one to submit a documentation patch.

Give it a shot, you may be surprised.

 - Josiah



From andrea.valle at unito.it  Thu Oct 28 05:39:21 2004
From: andrea.valle at unito.it (andrea valle)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:39:21 +0200
Subject: TK: Ho to set window position
In-Reply-To: <4180ba80$0$3632$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
References: <3Gkdd.2134$Ag.1192@fe37.usenetserver.com>	<2u5oqmF27qhb2U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cll8u5$dt9$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.5603.1098953471.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4180ba80$0$3632$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3F2FBB00-28C5-11D9-B60A-0003939C968C@unito.it>

Thanks a lot

> First, according to Tkinter terminology, a frame is not a window. A 
> window is called a Toplevel

Sorry, I was in a hurry...

Could you please tell me where to find a complete reference for 
Tkinter? Maybe from a Tk site?
Thanks

-a-


> So, once you have your Toplevel instance, the method 
> positionning/sizing the window is calledgeometry, to which you pass a 
> string formatted like '[WxH][+X+Y]', where W and H are the width and 
> height you want for your window, and X and Y its coordinates. Example:
>
> >>> from Tkinter import *
> >>> root = Tk()
> >>> root.geometry('200x150')
> ''
> >>> root.geometry('+10+10')
> ''
> >>> root.geometry('300x200+40+80')
> ''
>
> The first root.geometry sets the window's dimensions only, the second 
> one its position only, and the third one its dimensions and position.
>
> HTH
> -- 
> - Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
> PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - 
> http://www.pragmadev.com
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facolt? di Scienze della Formazione
Universit? degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle at unito.it



From lights at cix.co.uk  Thu Oct 28 06:28:13 2004
From: lights at cix.co.uk (Matthew Bell)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 03:28:13 -0700
Subject: Directly calling threaded class instance methods and attributes
Message-ID: <4d79c4d9.0410280228.53f9a328@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I've got a question about whether there are any issues with directly 
calling attributes and/or methods of a threaded class instance.  I
wonder if someone could give me some advice on this.

Generally, the documentation suggests that queues or similar constructs 
should be used for thread inter-process comms.  I've had a lot of 
success in doing that (generally by passing in the queue during the 
__init__ of the thread) and I can see situations where it's pretty much 
the only way of doing it.  But, there are other situations - 
particularly where you've got a "main" thread that creates, and is the
sole communicator with, one or more "worker" threads - where keeping 
track of the different queues can get a bit unwieldy.  

So I thought about it some more, and came to the conclusion that - 
again, in some situations - it could be a lot cleaner if you could call 
methods and/or access attributes of a threaded class instance directly.  
Here's some example code to show what I'm talking about:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
import threading
from time import sleep

class SimpleThread(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self):
        self.total = 0
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)

    def add(self, number):
        self.total += number

    def run(self):
        while(True):
            # In reality, there'd be much more here
            sleep(1)

adder = SimpleThread()
adder.start()
for i in range(20):
    adder.add(1)
    print adder.total
-------------------------------------------------------------------

This example code works.  Well, it does for me, anyway :-)  

My question is simply, can anyone see any issues with calling methods
and/or attributes of a threaded class instance like this?  It looks ok
to me but, as the docs never seem to mention using threads like this,
I'm wondering if I've missed something important.  If it helps, I 
know the basic considerations of threading, such as locking, exception
handling and so on; I only really need advice on whether there could
be issues with directly calling class instance attributes of a 
running thread.

If anyone could let me know either "Yeah, that's fine" or "NO!!! That
can break <foo> / cause a deadlock in <bar> / etc!!!" I'd be much 
obliged.

Thanks,
  Matthew.


From jezequiel at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 03:39:02 2004
From: jezequiel at gmail.com (Justin Ezequiel)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:39:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Tkinter and utf-8
References: <mailman.5643.1099019383.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4181cc21$0$3620$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<mailman.5644.1099029894.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4181ED60.5010703@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041029T092603-521@post.gmane.org>

Among others, I am missing characters in the range 
	017F	 383	LATIN SMALL LETTER LONG S 
to 
	036F	 879	COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER X 
 
my xlsfonts numbers: 
448     539   24261 
 
I'll get some help here re obtaining fonts. 
Thank you. 
 



From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Oct  5 18:52:06 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:52:06 +0200
Subject: binary numbers
In-Reply-To: <E62dnZKZl9wKvP7cRVn-gw@comcast.com>
References: <cjv58g$q5i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<E62dnZKZl9wKvP7cRVn-gw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <41632549$0$230$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Larry Bates wrote:
> Brad Tilley wrote:
> 
>> How can I specify that a number be represented in binary format when 
>> passing it to a function? I'm working with the Windows registry and 
>> REG_BINARY values expect numbers in binary form...
>>
>> This would be nice:
>>
>> import binary
>> x = binary(5)


I am not quite shure that I understand you correctly. But I think so.

You are probaly loking for the struct module. It handles strings as 
lumps of binary data. So if you want to store something as "binary" you 
convert it to a string containing binary data, and pass that string to 
the registry.

It's not that hard. A function doing what you describe above could be 
written a bit like:

# converts int to "binary short"
from struct import pack
x = pack('h', 5)

So technically x is now a string, but it contains the binary 
representation of bytes that is a "short" on your system. I am not shure 
if the registry expects a short though.


more info in the docs at:

4.3 struct -- Interpret strings as packed binary data



-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From milas_gi at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 23 13:44:09 2004
From: milas_gi at hotmail.com (tutu)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 10:44:09 -0700
Subject: wxIEHTML
References: <20041023002214.29660.00006347@mb-m16.aol.com>
	<mailman.5354.1098523334.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5d1dd116.0410230944.3c5319f3@posting.google.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.5354.1098523334.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Sat, 2004-10-23 at 04:22 +0000, LutherRevisited wrote:
> > I know I asked this question before about wxhtml windows(thanks for the
> > answer), now I'm wanting links to open up in my default browser when I click on
> > them from a wxIE window.  I realize that all I have to do is right-click on the
> > link and just open it in a separate window, but in the interests of
> > completeness, if anybody can tell me how this can be done I'd be grateful.
> 
> I don't think there's any way to intercept clicking links using the
> embedded IE browser.  You can check the source file for the module to
> get an overview of what you can do.
> 
> Cliff

maybe something like the following?
<pre>
import webbrowser
EVT_MSHTML_BEFORENAVIGATE2(self, -1, self.OnBeforeNavigate2)

def OnBeforeNavigate2(self, event):     #IE event
        url = event.GetText1()
        webbrowser.open(url)  #open in default browser
        event.Veto()    #don't open here
</pre>


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 11 15:35:55 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 19:35:55 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.10.16.48.24.930075@jerf.org>
	<4169982d.4238722751@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.10.19.48.01.604089@jerf.org>
	<4169c7ad.4250882926@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.11.00.12.36.26295@jerf.org>
	<416a0afc$0$5686$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.11.15.12.33.931181@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <416ae09b$0$5691$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-11, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:

>>> With respect, this isn't something to doubt or not doubt.
>>> There is one, and only one, way to represent any positive
>>> number in base two, since encoding sign is not an issue.
>>> Assuming an extra bit to show sign, there is one and only one
>>> way to represent any negative number, too.
>> 
>> That's news to me.  I've used three different base-2
>> representations for negative numbers in the past week, and I
>> can think of at least one other one I've used in the past.
>
> I am aware of only one encoding that uses a single bit to
> represent sign, as I stipulated, and discarding endianness
> issues I'm having a hard time imagining what reasonable
> alternatives there are.

* Two's compliment.
* One's compliment.
* Signed-magnitude with a "1" sign bit being positive.
* Signed-magnitude with a "1" sign bit being negative.
* Excess-N notation.

Four of the five are in use in the software I'm working on
today.

>>> (Zero gets to be the exception since then you can have
>>> positive and negative zero,
>> 
>> That depends on which base-2 representation you've chosen. In
>> two's compiliment and excess-N representations, there is only
>> one zero value.  In signed-magnitude there may be two.
>
> I explicitly only discussed signed-magnitude: "Assuming an
> extra bit to show sign".

I don't know what you mean.  Two's compliment, one's
compliment, signed-magnitude, and excess-N _all_ use a single
bit for sign.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Kids, don't gross me
                                  at               off... "Adventures with
                               visi.com            MENTAL HYGIENE" can be
                                                   carried too FAR!


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Mon Oct 25 21:12:26 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:12:26 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <clk5qk$4lt$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>	<1098746958.22370.116.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<mailman.5466.1098748601.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clk5qk$4lt$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <clk89q$5da$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Robert Kern wrote:
> Tim Churches wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 09:29, Cliff Wells wrote:
> 
> 
> [snip]
> 
>>> If this is true, I can't think of any way for a program to run on a
>>> GPL'd system (such as Linux) without becoming GPL'd itself (Unless it
>>> doesn't do any I/O or malloc any memory <wink>). 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes. It seems to be them is some dissonance between these two positions:
>>
>> "It is OK for a closed-source application to allocate memory on a system
>> running the GPLed Linux kernel"
>>
>> and
>>
>> "It is not OK for a GPL-incompatible Python application to import GPLed
>> code into the runtime namespace it is using."
>>
>> I shudder to think what a judge and jury would make of such a
>> distinction. 
> 
> 
> I'm sure they would see the explicit exception made in the GPL:
> 
> """
> However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not 
> include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or 
> binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of 
> the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component 
> itself accompanies the executable.
> """

Okay, a not-so-retarded reply this time:

 From COPYING in the Linux kernel distribution:

"""
    NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel
  services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use
  of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work".
  Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software
  Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the Linux
  kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it.
"""

Whether just using system calls is simply "normal use" for a GPLd OS 
kernel or this is simply a special exception to the GPL for Linux only 
is something that a court will have to decide. But such a suit would 
have to be about some other GPL kernel, not Linux.

IANAL. TINLA.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Oct 23 10:11:16 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:11:16 -0700
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3245044@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> David Wilson wrote:
> > Skip Montanaro wrote:
> > 
> >>     * Both attribute-style and dictionary-style access supported
> > 
> > Can someone please enlighten me as to why this is a good 
> idea? The abuse 
> > of __getitem__ or __getattr__ (IMHO) should only occur inside 
> > transparent object proxies and suchlike -- I see no 
> relation between 
> > (key, value) mapping and attributes.
> 
> Is it enough to say that it is a good idea *for some people*, and
> that you don't need to be convinced that it's a good idea for you,
> or in general, for that to remain a fact?
> 
> And surely you don't really mean that you don't see a relation
> between (key, value) mapping and attributes.  You *can't* mean
> that... they are both forms of associative mapping.  A key or name
> maps to a value.  End of story.  Obvious as all get out.

Not to mention __dict__ ...? Even morely obviouser.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From indigo at bitglue.com  Wed Oct 13 19:06:41 2004
From: indigo at bitglue.com (Phil Frost)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:06:41 -0400
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041013230641.GB25920@unununium.org>

You should take a look at Cleese <http://www.jtauber.com/cleese> and
Unununium <http://unununium.org/>

On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 03:32:01PM -0700, Maboroshi wrote:
> Hello
> 
> My question has to do with python and linux - I was interested in 
> finding out what it would take to reimplement the Linux Kernel in python 
> basically just taking the source code from linux and rewriting it in 
> python Would this idea make sense to do - if so what would be the 
> benefits of doing this and in what way would this not be a good idea
> 
> Cheers


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Fri Oct 15 08:45:15 2004
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 05:45:15 -0700
Subject: File browser cgi in python
References: <pan.2004.10.12.16.53.14.959543@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<wfFbd.27185$hk6.1068163@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <5339b60d.0410150445.2f324ee5@posting.google.com>

"Colin J. Williams" <cjw at sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<wfFbd.27185$hk6.1068163 at news20.bellglobal.com>...
>
> Dan Stromberg wrote:
> > Are there any reasonably secure file browser implementations for
> > unix/linux (and perhaps MacOS X and Windows as well) written in python,
> > that are accessed over https via a cgi script?
>
> I've been using Konqueror, part of the KDE package, for the last few 
> days.  I've had no problems so far.

I imagine that the file browser functionality may be desired on the
server side; that is, the desired implementation will provide file
browsing support to Web-based clients which navigate to a given URL
and are given a view of files or resources. On that front, one might
want to consider various WebDAV implementations which will actually
give a "genuine" file browsing experience with both Konqueror and
other Web/file browser clients.

As far as generic WebDAV support is concerned, the only package for
Python that I've managed to find is this one:

http://webdav.de/

Meanwhile, Zope and its derivatives do export their internal
filesystems/databases using WebDAV, and since WebDAV support within
Web applications mostly seems to involve supporting the various extra
HTTP request methods, it might be possible to just add code for such
methods in order to "enable" existing applications for WebDAV.

Of course, it should be remembered that Apache has always been able to
expose directory contents using fairly simple HTML pages, and there is
also WebDAV support for Apache 2 (at the very least). So it may not be
completely necessary to do this with Python.

Paul


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Oct  5 11:29:07 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:29:07 -0700
Subject: Miscellaneous personal prejudices (was: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL!-
	weekly Python news and links (Oct 4))
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F2B@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Ville Vainio wrote:
> >>>>> "Dan" == Dan Perl <danperl at rogers.com> writes:
> 
>     Dan> "What do I have to say to get into the QOTW?"
> 
> Change your last name?

+1 QOTW.


From riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net  Thu Oct 14 17:52:35 2004
From: riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net (Riccardo Galli)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:52:35 +0200
Subject: ANN: curses-extra 0.2
References: <pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050@cut.me.sideralis.net>
	<4edc17eb.0410141118.6d3ac74d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.14.21.52.29.434183@cut.me.sideralis.net>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:18:34 -0700, Michele Simionato wrote:

> Riccardo Galli <riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050 at cut.me.sideralis.net>...
>> First official release :)
>> 
>> curses-extra offers various widgets written using curses module.
>> 
> 
> I always wanted something like that!
> I wish I had the time to try it out ...
> Question: would it be very difficult to run it on Windows using the F-bot console 
> module as a curses replacement?
> 
>            Michele Simionato

I really don't know.
In first place because I can't find info about F-bot. What should I search
for?
Do you (or others) know what is the best module available for console
graphic in DOS ?

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 05:32:26 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:32:26 +0200
Subject: alternate function call syntax
References: <2sf68hF1jj1mlU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1gl6kaz.ik0adqe0jhkuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4163B60D.8000705@igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <1gl8fce.1rrtdl31iubxe7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Helmut Jarausch <jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> .....
> > It's not really a "sort of thing", alas... print is a statement so it
> > lives by its own rules (a Python wart, Guido's admitted that; maybe it
> > will change in Python 3000... let's hope!).
> 
> Is there any chance that Python 3000 would allow an alternate function call
> in addition to the standard function call

I suspect the chance is smaller than the proverbial snowball's in hell,
but surely there must be some, infinitesimal though it might be (e.g.,
aliens _could_ abduct the real Guido and replace him with a craftily
programmed droid).  Apart from the issue of being able to freely mix
keywords like 'from' and plain identifiers like 'to' in exactly the same
role (a big mess in itself -- let's just assume it away), calling:

integrate(sin, from=0.0, to=3.14)

is already possible today, and the ability to remove the punctuation to
give your desired:

> integrate sin from 0.0 to 3.14

is a kind of "let's add yet another syntax sugar possibility to the mix"
direction which it definitely _doesn't_ look like the trend for Python
3000 (simplification, removal of legacy issues, stronger emphasis on
"there should ideally be only one way", look more like that trend).

> Then 'print' could just be a standard function.

If you mean "with today's syntax", no it couldn't.  The print statement
has this weird, unique syntax whereby it can have a trailing comma in a
meaningful sense, meaning "emit no endline here".  Not to mention the
ever-lovin' "print>>BAH,buh"... Were it not for those warty quirks, any
current use of, e.g.:
    print a, b, c
could already be identically translated to
    printfunc(a, b, c)
with (net of softspace issues but just for brevity):
def printfunc(*args):
    sys.stdout.write(' '.join(map(str,args))+'\n')

The parentheses aren't the big deal, and your proposed syntax for
alternate function calls (with those 'keywords' corresponding to nothing
like print uses today) doesn't seem as if it would help much here,
anyway...


Alex


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Oct 16 08:22:24 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:22:24 +0200
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02>
Message-ID: <ckr3q0$mbf$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Chris S. wrote:

> I have a number of strings, containing wildcards (e.g. 'abc#e#' where #
> is anything), which I want to match with a test string (e.g 'abcdef').
> What would be the best way for me to store my strings so lookup is as
> fast as possible?

As a compiled regular expression, I guess - you don't give much info here,
so maybe there is a better way. But to me it looks like a classic regexp
thing. Maybe if your wildcards are equivalent to .*, then using subsequent
string searches lik this helps you:

pattern = 'abc#e#'.split('#')
s = 'abcdef'
found = True
pos = 0
for p in pattern:
    h = s.find(p)
    if h != -1:
        p = h + 1b
    else:
        found = False


That might be faster, if the string.find operation uses something else than
simple brute force linear searching - but I don't know enough about the
internals of python's string implementation to give an definite answer
here.

But to be honest: I don't think regexps are easy to beat, unless your
usecase is modeled in a way that makes it prone to other approaches.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From yuba at conwaycorp.net  Fri Oct 22 14:39:05 2004
From: yuba at conwaycorp.net (yuba at conwaycorp.net)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:39:05 -0500
Subject: Connecting to SQL Server from UNIX
Message-ID: <1098470345.417953c9ba4b6@mail.conwaycorp.net>


Hello-

Is it possible for me to connect to a MS SQL-Server from a UNIX box via Python
(2.3)?  I'm assuming I would need a driver, but I looked on microsoft.com and
could not find anything.  Anyone out there ever try to do this?

Thanks
--greg


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Conway Corporation WebMail -- www.conwaycorp.net


From paul.drummond at dsl.pipex.com  Sun Oct 10 09:52:52 2004
From: paul.drummond at dsl.pipex.com (Paul Drummond)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:52:52 +0100
Subject: pyQt
Message-ID: <opsfnp6elz8wm9vx@fred>

Hi guys, newbie here - is it ok to post pyQt questions here?

I know there is a mailing list for pyKDE but I can't find a specific pyQt  
newsgroup.

Cheers,
Paul Drummond


From usenet at mail-2-me.com  Fri Oct  1 19:37:53 2004
From: usenet at mail-2-me.com (Dirk Hagemann)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 01:37:53 +0200
Subject: Search Filter Syntax in Active Directory
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4128.1096533140.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4128.1096533140.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cjkpoi$fe9$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Tim Golden schrieb:
> [Dirk Hagemann]
> | I want to get the properties of all the computer-accounts of an 
> | ActiveDirectory structure (Microsoft). I know that could be done by 
> | using "Search Filter Syntax" with LDAP-Dialect or SQL-Dialect.
> | I found a lot of information about these dialects, but no 
> | example how to use this in an python-script.
> | Does anybody have a simple example for me, how to get some 
> | information out of AD?
> 
> I twitch nervously every time I have to pull something
> out of AD, but hopefully a couple of working examples
> might get you going. In general, anything you see elsewhere
> in VBS etc. can be done with a couple of GetObject-type
> calls in win32com.client.
> 
> First example: find the display name of a user, given a user name.
> This one uses the LDAP:// moniker syntax.
> 
> <code>
> 
> import win32com.client
> 
> username = "goldent"
> ldap_string = "LDAP://cn=%s,cn=users,dc=gb,dc=vo,dc=local" % username
> ldap_me = win32com.client.GetObject (ldap_string)
> print username, "=>", ldap_me.Get ("displayName")
> 
> </code>
> 
> Second example: find all the domains known by this workstation/server.
> This example uses the WinNT:// object, which I personally find
> a lot easier / more intuitive to use, so long as it meets your
> need (it doesn't do everything, and I'm not sure you can update
> through it).
> 
> <code>
> 
> import win32com.client
> 
> for domain in win32com.client.GetObject ("WinNT:"):
>   print domain.Name
> 
> </code>
> 
> Third example: list all the computers in a particular domain.
> Again WinNT:// syntax.
> 
> <code>
> 
> import win32com.client
> domain_name = "VOUK"
> domain = win32com.client.GetObject ("WinNT://" + domain_name)
> domain.Filter = ["Computer"]
> for computer in domain:
>   print computer.Name
> 
> </code>
> 
> HTH
> TJG
> 

Hi Tim!

The third example what is yet in use in my script - I  asked for it some 
month ago here ;-) It is a great help!

But now I need more than just the names of the computers, I need their 
properties like OS, Service Pack, Version and stuff like this.

What I managed yet is to get the properties of an object if I know the 
LDAP path of this object.
But in our AD-structure the computer-accounts are not all in the same OU 
and the OUs could have another name from one day to the next day... So I 
need to get all computers wherever they are with some of their properties.
I'll try your hints after the next week when I'm back at work - next 
week I have a SQL-course :-)

Dirk



From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Mon Oct  4 08:09:29 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 05:09:29 -0700
Subject: newbie permission problem
References: <wAL7d.99503$wV.12017@attbi_s54> <7sN7d.593248$gE.589623@pd7tw3no>
	<PUN7d.296691$mD.66455@attbi_s02>
	<azO7d.404372$8_6.311894@attbi_s04>
	<21064255.0410030852.34c732cf@posting.google.com>
	<X9Y7d.163228$MQ5.23824@attbi_s52>
Message-ID: <21064255.0410040409.5996fb28@posting.google.com>

"Ann" <Anna at nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:<X9Y7d.163228$MQ5.23824 at attbi_s52>...
> "Peter Abel" <PeterAbel at gmx.net> wrote in message

  ...
  ...
  ... [snip]

> >
> > The following works for me though it's a long way round:
> > >>> jpeg='filename.jpg'
> > >>> import cStringIO
> > >>> im=Image.open(cStringIO.StringIO(file(jpeg,'rb').read()))
> > >>> os.remove(jpeg)
> > >>>
> >
> > I had expected that the following would work too, but it doesn't:
> > >>> im=Image.open(file(jpeg,'rb'))
> > >>> os.remove(jpeg)
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> > OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'filename.jpg'
> >
> > My opinion is that Image.open( filepointer ) binds the filpointer-object
> > to a name while StringIO doesn't and the garbagecollector will close the
>  file.
> >
> > BTW why do you open an imagefile when you want to delete it? If you want
>  to
> > decide by view which imagefile should be deleted it would be good practice
> > to open the imagefile, load the image and then close the file.
> >
> > Regards
> > Peter
> 
> Peter, I only want to find out the dimensions of the file.
> I have a huge number of jpg files and I want to automatically
> delete the tiny ones.
> Tnx for help.

OK, for this there is no need to open the files. 
The following function should do it:

>>> def delete_files(path,file_mask,limit_size):
... 	files=map(lambda lfn:\
... 	         (os.path.getsize(lfn),lfn),\
... 	         glob.glob(os.path.join(path,file_mask))\
... 	         )
... 	for (s,f) in files:
... 		if s < limit_size:
... 			print 'os.remove(%s): size: %d' % (f,s)
... 

>>> delete_files('.','*.py',200000)
os.remove(.\quiet.py): size: 1339
os.remove(.\Client.py): size: 923
os.remove(.\show_vblpc.py): size: 5411
os.remove(.\tcpBetriebsbild.py): size: 37737
>>> 


Regards
Peter


From rhoder at worldpath.net  Sat Oct  9 10:54:09 2004
From: rhoder at worldpath.net (Derek Rhodes)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 14:54:09 GMT
Subject: Algorithm used by keyword 'in'
Message-ID: <lYS9d.144800$Kt5.79976@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

#using python 2.4a3

say there is a list:

list = range(10000)

Now randomize it.

Next, command the interpreter:

>>>  465 in list
True
>>>

What algorithm is used here?


-Derek.




From kumoyuki at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 09:46:21 2004
From: kumoyuki at gmail.com (David Rush)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:46:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ann: Pysch, Scheme runtime environment in Python
References: <1e015c2a.0410070804.6e84016d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck65nd$9vf$1@pixie.nscp.aoltw.net>

olepar at gmail.com (Oleg Paraschenko) writes:
> Pysch:
> http://pysch.sourceforge.net/
> 
> Pysch relies on Bigloo to preprocess a source code of
> Scheme programs (expand macros) and to save the result
> as XML. Pysch interprets only the refined XML.

This should get listed as the most bizarre implementation methodolgy
ever adopted. I think you have definitively showed the equivalence
between s-exprs and XML, if nothing else.

And for the tone-of-voice challenged, I do not intend to convey
sarcasm. Rather I am amazed that such an approach works well
enough to:

> Pysch supports only a subset of the Scheme functions
> library. Anyway, the subset is big enough to run
> SXPath and SXSLT code.

How fast?

david rush
-- 
With guns, we are citizens. Without them, we are subjects.
	-- YZGuy, IPL


From lonetwin at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 06:01:55 2004
From: lonetwin at gmail.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:31:55 +0530
Subject: what are the most popular building and packaging tools for python ??
Message-ID: <5a309bd30410250301b26f445@mail.gmail.com>

Hi list,
       At work, we would shortly be starting a new project that would
be almost entirely (90%) written in python. Our development as well as
deployment would happen on linux (fedora and RHEL to be specific).
     We've had a similar project earlier for which we distributed only
the compiled python modules (the suits are yet to be enlightened about
the benefits of OSS). For that project we had a build structure which
not only compiled the py modules but also built the rpms. However this
was a humongous non-recursive make structure ...which incidentally
soon became unmaintainable. Now, we are looking for alternatives. We
are ready to consider not using make at all, however we need some
build tool which would work well with the other non-python source code
too. I have been looking at Distutils and Scons, both have their
advantages and disadvantages.
    Since I am still evaluating, I would welcome any suggestions or
personal experiences that the community here might have had in this
regard.

TIA,
Regards
Steve


From shalabh at cafepy.com  Sun Oct 17 19:45:41 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:45:41 -0700
Subject: Binding in Python
In-Reply-To: <QXycd.152486$35.7488986@news4.tin.it>
References: <web-11768754@infinito.it>	<mailman.5085.1098036899.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<QXycd.152486$35.7488986@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ckv02t$rhk$1@sea.gmane.org>

Riccardo Rossi wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I need to know how name binding and attribute binding work.
> 

I'm not sure what exactly you want to know but here's something that 
might help:

http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html

--
Shalabh



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Oct  5 12:52:57 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 12:52:57 -0400
Subject: Proper use of __file__
References: <cjud90$lbq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<10m5hc4mn8j3l04@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cjujh9$he6$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <10m5hc4mn8j3l04 at corp.supernews.com>,
Jeffrey Froman  <jeffrey at fro.man> wrote:
>
>__file__ is the name of the file in which the statement containing
>"__file__" appears. If your file foo.py reads:
>
>print __file__
>
>You can run "import foo" from the interpreter, and it will print "foo.py",
>just like if you ran "python foo.py". But if you run "print __file__" in
>the interpreter directly, NameError is raised because the call is not being
>made from any file, so __file__ is undefined.

One gotcha: in Python 2.2 and earlier, __file__ is only defined for
imported modules; "python foo.py" will raise a NameError.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Oct 18 19:08:19 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:08:19 -0700
Subject: Building email threads from unix mailboxes
References: <1098138259.303424.280500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5143.1098140097.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1098140417.646769.5240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <41744CE3.3498ED5C@alcyone.com>

Jed Parsons wrote:

> Is the References header a running list of all the In-Reply-To headers
> so far in the thread?

It depends on the service.  Some only keep a few of the last references,
some only one, some retain the full list from the very beginning (at
least as far as the RFC will allow).

Probably if you wanted to handle robust threading, you'd want to go by
In-Reply-To and References, backtracking manually (rather than relying
on any given References list to be complete), and then, for systems like
mail-to-news gateways which may break the In-Reply-To/References chain,
group by similar subjects posted around the same time.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.
    -- H.L. Mencken


From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Oct 28 14:08:28 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:08:28 +0200
Subject: Directly calling threaded class instance methods and attributes
References: <4d79c4d9.0410280228.53f9a328@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5624.1098986746.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-732139.20082828102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.5624.1098986746.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> >>> val2 = 0
> >>> lock = threading.Lock()
> >>> def goo(n):
> ...     global val2, lock
> ...     for i in xrange(n):
> ...         lock.acquire()
> ...         val2 += 1
> ...         lock.release()
> ...
> >>> for i in xrange(10):
> ...     threading.Thread(target=goo, args=(100000,)).start()
> ...
> >>> #wait...
> ...
> >>> val2
> 1000000

FWIW, you don't need a global statement for globals you don't assign to, 
so you don't need to declare lock global.

Just


From r_b_lawson at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 15 11:03:43 2004
From: r_b_lawson at yahoo.com (Rick Lawson)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 08:03:43 -0700
Subject: [ANN] RO utility package 2004-10-13
References: <rowen-3A7783.15082614102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <14460e6d.0410150703.6f37ad75@posting.google.com>

This looks like it has some great extensions for Tkinter that are
pretty much packaged in their own module (Wdg). In the brief glance I
took, there are a few dependencies on code in the base RO package but
basically you can just use the widgets in the Wdg module. Great work !


From roy at panix.com  Sun Oct 24 22:43:08 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:43:08 -0400
Subject: Reading XML like Python!
References: <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <roy-763DD6.22430724102004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534 at posting.google.com>,
 johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John) wrote:

> I have to read a lot of XML for my upcoming project.
> XML is hard on my eyes.
> Is there some sort of converter that converts XML to something more
> eye friendly? maybe like Python? I have seen restructured text. There
> is a paper at EuroPython 2004 that seems to do something similar.
> 
> "Pythonic Alternatives for declarative XML-based specifications of
> robot behavior"
> 
> Anyone know of any tools along these lines?
> 
> Thanks.

I had the same problem recently.  I used the standard xml.dom.minidom 
module to parse the XML, and about a page of Python code to pretty-print 
it.  Unfortunately, I'm not able to release the code, but if you're 
familiar with how DOM works, you should be able to replicate it in under 
an hour.  If you're not familiar with DOM, it'll take you longer, but 
it'll also give you a chance to get familiar :-)

Have you tried DAGS for "xml pretty-print"?


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 03:21:54 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 00:21:54 -0700
Subject: Database and Interface for Python
References: <6f402501.0410071411.17321f9a@posting.google.com>
	<20041007224307.2E28.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410072321.199be425@posting.google.com>

[snip..]
> > I guess this is as bad a time as anyto start to learn to use a
> > database !! So I look on google and the situation is a little unclear.
> > I can use the database API that will give me a 'consistent
> > interface'... but I still need a database engine installed. e.g.
> > MySQL. Not only that but I need a python interface to that engine that
> > the database API can use ?
> 
> Yes, you will need both database and python interface to access it.
> 
> 
> > I think the web server I use will allow MySQL databases, so if I
> > install it on my windoze box and install the MySQLdb python module
> > then I'm well away....
>  
> Webserwer has nothing to do with database.
>  

It does if it's a 'web application' your developing !! Whatever
solution I choose has to work on my server *and* on my windoze nox for
testing !!

Thanks for your answer though.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> > Have I got it right ? Can I do 'date range' queries using MySQL,
> > MySQLdb and the Python database API ?
> 
> Yes.


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sat Oct  9 22:29:40 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 22:29:40 -0400
Subject: help me
In-Reply-To: <416898A0.3020906@kzoo.edu>
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>	<3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>
	<416898A0.3020906@kzoo.edu>
Message-ID: <41689E94.2020808@cloudthunder.com>

There is always eval().  His example could be done with out either though.


<SNIP>

>>
>>
>>> Hey everybody. I am writing a program that requires the user to make
>>> the name for variables inside the program. For example:
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>>>> exec raw_input()+' = 34'
>>>>>>         
>>>>>
>>> However, I don't want to have to use the "exec" statement. Thanks for
>>> any help!
>>>   
>>
>>
>> Are you sure you don't want to use a plain dict for this?  And if so, 
>> why?
>>
>>
>>  
>>
> Why don't you want to use exec? Just curious. That's the normal way to 
> get a string to python code as far as I know.
>



From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Sat Oct 30 08:53:13 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:53:13 GMT
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Z8Mgd.8520$Es2.172559@twister2.libero.it>

Michael Hoffman ha scritto:


> I'll believe the performance benefits when I see them. The Parrot people 
> promised they would be faster by OSCON 2004 or Guido would get to pie 
> Dan Sugalski in the face. If you don't already know what happened, you 
> can see a picture here:
> 
> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/zach/archives/006129.html

well, they failed to implement all of the tests but those implemented 
actually run faster than  CPython.
Anyway they are at 0.1.1 or something like that. There is time to become 
faster or to disappear completely, I guess


From jerf at jerf.org  Sat Oct 30 13:09:51 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:09:51 GMT
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
	<mailman.5652.1099050368.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ueq45F2a9e6eU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<6c6a52-r5t.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<clu3cd$oe$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.10.30.00.47.53.108306@jerf.org>
	<gr8b52-uc.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.30.18.10.03.646022@jerf.org>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:47:57 -0700, Roger Binns wrote:

> Jeremy Bowers wrote:
>> I would point out the XML-RPC is built on HTTP and XML and
>> theoretically inherits the benefits and disadvantages of both.
> 
> The default implementation uses HTTP as a transport, but that is
> not a requirement. 

No, it is actually written into the spec.

http://xmlrpc.scripting.com/spec

"An XML-RPC message is an HTTP-POST request." - right there in the
overview, and the author means it; he's said it directly to me. 

Like I said, I think it is time to revise it to make the encoding
separate from the transport, but it already has been so revised out in the
wild.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 17:52:38 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 23:52:38 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1awush1lkmr26.utqa0xkprp0m$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<mailman.5343.1098480193.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm30rt.1oogft017pi3atN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:

> My personal feeling on templates is that if you find yourself needing
> very powerful features, you're doing it wrong.  That's what the parent
> programming language is for.  My favorite use for templates is storing
> them in a database so that the end user can modify a website (via a web
> interface) without knowing PHP/Python.  Were I shove too much
> programming into the template, this wouldn't be possible.

With Nevow you're meant to shove no programming at all into the
template, and enabling the modification of the templates by
non-programmers is a key design goal.  (Haven't yet seen any work on
storing them in a DB rather than on the filesystem, or enabling specific
via-web editing thereof rather than the use of normal HTML editing tools
and applications, but that kind of issue seems secondary to the way the
templating system itself is designed).

Nevow is probably not yet mature enough for much more widespread use
than it's getting.  But, it _is_ maturing -- and it seems (regarding its
templating subsystem, forgetting for the moment about other stuff such
as live-page klud^H^H^H^H brilliancies;-) consonant with your goals.


Alex


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Wed Oct  6 16:26:22 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:26:22 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <20041006112905.ED18.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041005103121.ECDA.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<41642CCB.1030503@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041006112905.ED18.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <416454EE.7050405@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>Psyco can only speed up Python.  Libraries that are already compiled
>C/C++/whatever will gain nothing.
>  
>
No kidding.  j/k, but I already knew this.

>I would doubt there would be any issues involving using Pyrex for making
>compiled modules, then also using Psyco to speed up the leftover Python
>code.
>
>  
>
Ah, that's what I meant.  So do you mean that I can not use Psyco 
directly in the Pyrex code but I will have to apply it (by manually 
editing them to import Psyco) to the Python leftovers?  I would think 
that Pyrex would know to leave the imports alone and thus Psyco would be 
fine.  I guess I shall have to test it for myself, thanks.



From rmunn at pobox.com  Tue Oct 12 10:24:16 2004
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 07:24:16 -0700
Subject: Options, ConfigParser, modules, and SQLObject connections
Message-ID: <78cd5819.0410120624.5b67bbbe@posting.google.com>

I've been loving SQLObject. The ability to set up a database
connection and then completely *forget* about it and just manipulate
Python objects has been great. But I'm running into a problem, and I'd
like some advice.

I'm writing an app using SQLite as the database backend, and
interfacing to it via SQLObject. I have all my SQL table definitions
(classes inheriting from SQLObject) in one module, and for
simplicity's sake I'm using a module-level __connection__ variable
that all my classes will pick up. But the SQL manual warns, "The
__connection__ magic variable can be a little fragile -- it has to be
defined before the class is defined. This means it must be assigned
above the class ...: line." No problem, my module looks like this:

--- BEGIN sqldefs.py ---

import sqlobject

__connection__ = sqlobject.SQLiteConnection('userdata.db')

class Person(sqlobject.SQLObject):
    firstName = sqlobject.StringCol()
    # etc.

---- END sqldefs.py ----

But I don't want to hardcode the database filename. I want to let the
user choose the filename, and I'll be saving their choice in a
configuration file readable by ConfigParser. Thus:

--- BEGIN main.py ---

import ConfigParser

config = ConfigParser.SafeConfigParser()
config.read('~/.myapp/myapp.cfg')
database_filename = config.get("database", "filename")
# etc.

---- END main.py ----

And now the problem arises: how do I get that value into the
sqldefs.__connection__ object? Once I import sqldefs, it's too late:
__connection__ will get set at import time, and the classes will be
created at import time.

I've thought of a couple solutions, but neither one seems all that
clean to me.

1) Make sqldefs.py my main module, the one that imports all the
others. Ew.

2) Keep the "config" object in its own module, and make sure that the
object has been initialized before importing sqldefs:

--- BEGIN globalconfig.py ---
import ConfigParser
config = ConfigParser.SafeConfigParser()
def load_config(filename):
    config.read(filename)
---- END globalconfig.py ----

--- BEGIN main.py ---
import globalconfig
globalconfig.load_config('~/.myapp/myapp.cfg')
import sqldefs
# etc.
---- END main.py ----

--- BEGIN sqldefs.py ---
import globalconfig
import sqlobject
db_filename = globalconfig.config.get("database", "filename")
__connection__ = sqlobject.SQLiteConnection(db_filename)

class Person(sqlobject.SQLObject):
    firstName = sqlobject.StringCol()
    # etc.
---- END sqldefs.py ----

This works, but it feels a little fragile to me. Suddenly the order in
which I import my modules matters a lot. If I ever forget and import
sqldefs before I've called load_config(), I'll get a
ConfigParser.NoSectionError: "No section: 'database'", which may not
be the clearest way to remind me "Hey, you imported your modules in
the wrong order."

I'm sure others have faced similar problems before. How have you
managed?


From noone at here.com  Fri Oct  1 00:50:03 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 05:50:03 +0100
Subject: List rotation
References: <cjftdv$ofl$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<mailman.4116.1096515802.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cjg4cn$qsc$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjgam4$1of$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<cjhe1o$s8f$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjhf0k$tc4$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<ngjpl0lkd57r27kfhjl72vn7pn5puoocdl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cjini5$tkb$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi Dennis,

So much for it being late here. I just had to look over your code before I
go to bed. Excellent stuff, just what was needed :  )

Can I ask are you writing a python music app? Just curious, as there doesn't
seem to be many around.

Malcolm




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 27 19:33:52 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:33:52 GMT
Subject: Becoming Unicode Aware
References: <6f402501.0410270256.13cf5727@posting.google.com>
	<2u9dpvF27biksU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <41802fc5.943925352@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:56:32 +0200, "Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:

>> My main problem with udnerstanding unicode is what to do with
>> arbitrary text without an encoding specified. To the best of my
>> knowledge the technical term for this situation is 'buggered'. E.g. I
>> have a CGI guestbook script. Is the only way of knowing what encodign
>> the user is typing in, to ask them ?
>
>Unfortunately the http standard seems to lack a specification how form data
>encoding is to be transferred. But it seems that most browser which
>understand a certain encoding your page is delivered in will use that for
>replying.
>
> 
>> Anyway - ConfigObj reads config files from plain text files. Is there
>> a standard for specifying the encoding within the text file ? I know
>> python scripts have a method - should I just use that ?
>
>No idea what configobj is - is it you own config parser?
> 
>> Also - suppose I know the encoding, or let the programmer specify, is
>> the following sufficient for reading the files in :
>> 
>> def afunction(setoflines, encoding='ascii'):
>>     for line in setoflines:
>>         if encoding:
>>             line = line.decode(encoding)
>
>Yes, it should be - but why the if? It is unnecessary, as its condition will
>always be true - and you _want_ it that way, as the result of afunction
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    afunction(lines, None)

would seem to be a feasible call ;-)

>should always be unicode objects, no matter what encoding was used.
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 17 04:05:57 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:05:57 -0700
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <ZKncd.1779$Ug4.1245@trndny01>
References: <4171edbf.9519908@news.oz.net> <ZKncd.1779$Ug4.1245@trndny01>
Message-ID: <20041017005635.09F3.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Sorry for the ambiguity. My case is actually pretty simple. '#' 
> represents any single character, so it's essentially the same as re's 
> '.'. The match must be exact, so the string and pattern must be of equal 
> lengths. Each wildcard is independent of other wildcards. For example, 
> suppose we restricted the possible characters to 1 and 0, then the 
> pattern '##' would only match '00', '01', '10', and '11'. This pattern 
> would not match '0', '111', etc. I feel that a trie would work well, but 
> I'm concerned that for large patterns, the overhead in the Python 
> implementation would be too inefficient.

Having implemented what is known as a burst trie (a trie where you don't
expand a branch until it has more than 'k' entries) in Python, it ends
up taking up much more space, but that isn't really an issue unless you
have large numbers of strings (millions), or the strings are long
(kilobytes).

If you want to make it more efficient (space-wise), write the algorithm
and structures in pure C, then wrap it with SWIG.  Add options for
inserting and deleting strings, and also querying for strings that match
a certain pattern.

Thinking about it, if your dictionary is very restricted, you could just
toss all strings in a balanced search tree, doing a similar tree
traversal as the trie solution.  Much less overhead, most of the
benefits.

 - Josiah



From borovikov at comcast.net  Sun Oct 10 02:51:41 2004
From: borovikov at comcast.net (Igor)
Date: 9 Oct 2004 23:51:41 -0700
Subject: DV AVI frame extraction with Python?
Message-ID: <c41cca24.0410092251.7c17560b@posting.google.com>

Can anybody point at package for Python that can allow to open DV AVI
file and extract frames from it? Preferrably frames should be
converted into PIL images or saved as files in one of the standard
formats.

It seems like pyMedia can probably do this. If it's so, can anybody
point at code samples for AVI manipulation in pyMedia? Unfortunately
the documentation seems to be very skimpy.

Thank you
--Igor


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Oct 18 09:00:58 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:00:58 +0200
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.5038.1097927312.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7zn2malsn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mo7c42-692.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	<du7vfd8w5vj.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <cl0eq6$jqg$05$1@news.t-online.com>

> I can believe that, but it was not the issue. The issue is that an
> individual Qt application that is only freely available on Linux
> probably isn't going to be an incentive to change the desktop computer
> infrastructure for the whole company. So in the end it means that the
> application is not going to be used at all, which is a shame in the
> case of a good application.

An assertion that is undeniably true - but for a whole bunch of programs
living in the unix-world, and especially ones with GUIs of any sort, as
running X under Windows is a royal pain in the neck - but so what? As
qt-software has to be gpl on linux too, its free and so I can't make a buck
out of it - so if I decided to write it anyhow, I'm not concerned about
reaching the windows user-base.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 09:06:54 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 06:06:54 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <20041025223914.0B2C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<20041027030115.82565.qmail@web20427.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5543.1098852393.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410270506.3754043f@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.5543.1098852393.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Automated testing is the process of creating a set of test inputs with
> outputs to validate that your software is working correctly or not.
> 
> Overflow errors can occur during regular program execution, and as such,
> are not an automated test.

Sorry for the wrong terminology.
-kartik


From hjwidmaier at web.de  Sat Oct  2 12:36:50 2004
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 18:36:50 +0200
Subject: File handling: The easy and the hard way
References: <pan.2004.09.30.13.56.48.18412@web.de>
	<mailman.4141.1096557347.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.02.16.36.49.840028@web.de>

Am Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:15:32 -0400 schrieb Jeremy Jones:

>>Tracebacks
>>are fine for programmers, but end users really never should see any.
>>  
>>
> Bushwa.  End users may or may not be able to make sense of them, but it 
> doesn't mean they _should_ never see them.

I see tracebacks as programmer errors. Now, a missing file isn't a
programmer error, but not handling it gracefully is.

> I think the traceback is perfectly understandable.  I think that even an
> end-user would be able to comprehend that type of message.  Or, if you
> get an IOError, is this not sufficient: IOError: [Errno 28] No space
> left on device ?

To programmers, yes. Or rather, no, as I tried to explain: even my
co-workers switch to 'your program crashed' mode when they're confronted
with a traceback. They never read that final line that tells them that
the sole problem was a typo on their part.

> Chances are, end users aren't going to be particulary concerned with
> exceptions you log - unless they've got a problem that they can't figure
> out.  And if they've got a problem they can't figure out, you'd be
> better off giving them as much information as you can give them, or
> they'll come to you for help.  And when they do come to you for help,
> you'd better make sure you've given yourself the most informatino you
> can to solve the problem.  So logging a traceback is a great idea IMHO.
> Now, in areas where you're dead sure that an exception is nothing to be
> concerned with, don't bother.  So, a good approach may be: handle the
> specific exceptions that you know may occur, let other unexpected (or
> expected in worst case scenarios) exceptions filter up to a higher
> level, log them there, and if need be, terminate program execution.

I don't want to _log_ exceptions, I want to handle them in a meaningful
way. Of course, if an end user gets a traceback because of a program
error, I'm more than happy with the traceback. This was unforseen
(otherwise I'd handled that).


> I dunno - something just doesn't feel right here.  I kinda feel like
> you're wanting to create an over-generalized solution.

Yes, that's bugging me, too. I'm not all that happy with it myself,
otherwise I'd started to write such a class in the meantime.

> Hope I didn't jump too hard.

I can take it.

Thanks for the good advice,
Hans-Joachim


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct 14 16:33:57 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:33:57 GMT
Subject: The Art of  Pickling: Binary vs Ascii difficulties
In-Reply-To: <171d9905.0410141128.3104bb95@posting.google.com>
References: <171d9905.0410141128.3104bb95@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <VoBbd.4119$gy1.2309@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Bix wrote:
> I'm leaving the example at the bottom.  There is a variable, fmt,
> within the test0 function which can be changed from -1
> (pickle.HIGHEST_PROTOCOL) to 0 (ascii).  The behavior between the two
> pickle formats is not consistent.  I'm hoping for an explaination and
> a possible solution; I'd like to store my data in binary.

What's the inconsistancy?

Ahh, I see the comments down at the end of your file.  I
assume you think they should all pass?

They all pass for me.

I'll guess you're on MS Windows.  You need to open the file
in binary mode instead  of ascii, which is the default.
Try changing

  	pickle.Pickler(open(fn,'w'),fmt).dump(x)
  	obj = pickle.Unpickler(open(fn,'r')).load()

to

  	pickle.Pickler(open(fn,'wb'),fmt).dump(x)
  	obj = pickle.Unpickler(open(fn,'rb')).load()


This isn't clear in the documentation, as Skip complained
about last year in the thread starting at
   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-February/033362.html

Though to be precise, this isn't actually a pickle
issue.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From exarkun at divmod.com  Mon Oct  4 11:07:17 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:07:17 GMT
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
In-Reply-To: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041004150717.29723.831210876.divmod.quotient.9628@ohm>

On 4 Oct 2004 07:45:54 -0700, nelson at crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) wrote:
> [snip]
> Obviously, the justification for it is that it eliminates ", ', r",
> r', """, and ''' from the syntax, replacing them by a single 'x' that
> suffices for everything.  Makes the code easier to read (only one
> visual element), easier to parse, and easier to write, because you
> don't need to decide which literal method to use.
  Responding to "replacing them by a single 'x' that suffices for everything":
  No, it doesn't.
  It replaces them with an arbitrary number of string delimiters.  'x' is one, but 'y' is another, 'Would you like some spam?' is yet another.  You must still be careful in selecting your delimiter, lest you accidentally use one included in your string literal.  The chances of doing so are greatly decreased, but they are still non-zero.
  The idea doesn't seem all bad, but it doesn't seem like a great enough improvement to justify very nearly breaking every Python program ever written in dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of different places.
  Jp


From maps_263 at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 11:44:22 2004
From: maps_263 at hotmail.com (Jonas Hei)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:44:22 +0200
Subject: PyGUI Homepage
Message-ID: <opsfibb8t2r0m89z@fx1025>

I am trying to get PyGUI but the homepage at
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python_gui/
seems to have moved (or may be its just broken)

Has it moved?

Can I download it from somewhere else?


From dubnerm-news at mail.ru  Fri Oct 22 15:00:32 2004
From: dubnerm-news at mail.ru (Michael P. Dubner)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 23:00:32 +0400
Subject: Python in HTAs
In-Reply-To: <YWScd.409$gq2.308@trnddc01>
References: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
	<YWScd.409$gq2.308@trnddc01>
Message-ID: <417958D0.4010305@mail.ru>

Only one fix: you can ever use:

gnu valued customer wrote:

>><html>
>><head>
>><title>Python controlled HTML application</title>
>><hta:application id="oApplication">
>><script language="python">
>>def Onload():
>>    alert('hello from python')
>>    document.all["idspan"] = 'hello from python'
>>    
>>
>
> document.getElementById('idspan').innerHTML = 'hello from python'
>  
>
    document.all['idspan'].innerHTML = 'hello from python'

>></script>
>></head>
>><body onload="Onload();">
>><span id="idspan" ></span>
>></body>
>></html>
>>
>>Could not find any example on Google either.
>>
>>TIA,
>>Marcel
>>    
>>
-- 
Best regards,
Michael Dubner (dubnerm.at.mindless.com)
Brainbench MVP/HTML+JavaScript (http://www.brainbench.com)
PS: Sorry for my English



From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  5 18:10:53 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 22:10:53 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6dqy.17aec2n1uecu0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4340.1096988457.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4356.1096994017.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl7hm9.axk9rb2z5qtaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4386.1097013003.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41631bed$0$55248$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:

> Indeed Alex, I shall have to hone my researching skills (whip
> out the blade sharpener).  I haven't done much since my days
> in the University as a student.  The nice thing about being a
> professor, which I made heavy usage of, is that you can
> exploit your graduate students and make them do all the
> research and tedious tasks!  Reflecting back though, perhaps
> that was unkind.  It is an integral part of their learning 
> experience though.

Perhaps.  Just remember that we are not grad-student slave
labor to which you can assign tasks.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Four thousand
                                  at               different MAGNATES, MOGULS
                               visi.com            & NABOBS are romping in my
                                                   gothic solarium!!


From riccardo.rorssi76 at email.it  Sun Oct 17 14:35:28 2004
From: riccardo.rorssi76 at email.it (Riccardo Rossi)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:35:28 GMT
Subject: Binding in Python
References: <web-11768754@infinito.it>
	<mailman.5085.1098036899.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <QXycd.152486$35.7488986@news4.tin.it>

"Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at uci.edu> ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:mailman.5085.1098036899.5135.python-list at python.org...
>
>> Can anyone tell me what are the binding strategies of this
>> language? How does the binding works in Python?
>>
>> Please, help me, it's very important!
>> Thanks in advance.
>> Riccardo Rossi.
>
> What do you mean by 'binding'?  Do you mean to ask how name binding
> works, how attribute binding works, whether there are bindings to other
> languages (like C), etc.?
>
> Be precise with your question, as we are not mind readers.

=====
Hi!

I need to know how name binding and attribute binding work.

Thanks a lot!
Riccardo Rossi. 




From olli at haluter.fromme.com  Fri Oct 29 13:34:26 2004
From: olli at haluter.fromme.com (Oliver Fromme)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 17:34:26 GMT
Subject: quick regex question
References: <20041028164648.GA32572@utoronto.ca>
	<mailman.5621.1098983663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clrddj$vq1$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <2ufd92F29iv3oU2@uni-berlin.de>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
 > Steven Bethard wrote:
 > > Matt Price <matt.price <at> utoronto.ca> writes:
 > > > this is surely trivial, but can'f figure it out.  I wnat to replace:
 > > > 
 > > > 'string with spaces'
 > > > with
 > > > 'StringWithSpaces'
 > > 
 > > I know you asked for a regex solution, but I thought I'd drop this
 > > suggestion anyway (not everything really merits a regex) =)
 > 
 > I second that :-)

Me too.  :-)

 > > >>> string1 = 'string with spaces'
 > > >>> ''.join([s.title() for s in string1.split()])
 > > 'StringWithSpaces'
 > 
 > Or, without the list comprehension:
 > 
 > >>> "".join("string with spaces".title().split())
 > 'StringWithSpaces'
 > 
 > > Clear, concise, and uses in the builtin str.title method, which appears to
 > > do exactly what you want.

Uhm, I think the following is more efficient:

>>> "string with spaces".title().replace(" ", "")
'StringWithSpaces'

It doesn't split into a temporary list of strings which
are then joined together again.  Also, I believe it's more
readable than the split/join approach.

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Konrad-Celtis-Str. 72, 81369 Munich, Germany

``All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream.''
(E. A. Poe)


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Oct 11 20:49:29 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:49:29 -0000
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmm29m.8la.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<10mm6o6si5mdqac@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncmmago.d76.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <10mm6o6si5mdqac at corp.supernews.com>, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> In this case, I'd redefine after to be:
> 
>     def after(timeout, func, *args, **kwargs):
>         # whatever needs to be done to delay the call, then...
>         func(*args, **kwargs)

Apparently, you're not the only one. ;)

> I find this to read slightly better, and the implementation requires one 
> less level of indirection.  I'll admit that I haven't explored much in 
> the area of function currying and closures, so there *may* be ways in 
> which using lambda is preferable to using a generic variable-argument 
> closure-returning function, but at least in the cases that spring to my 
> mind, lambda's advantage is slim at best.

Python has many features that can delay evaluation and factor out
repetition, and this can largely explain why it's not so much of a nuisance
that it lacks a more powerful closure construct. For instance, on the dev
list, as quickly as the new "sort(key=lambda x: x[1])" idiom was introduced,
people started hunting for ways to squash the lambda, the winners being
"operator.attrgetter()" and "operator.itemgetter()". It is very likely that
anything you can do with a "lambda" you can also do using other features of
Python. Still, I think it's useful to note that the lambda version was the
first to be discussed, and the search for alternatives was in part motivated
by the threat of lambda's future demise. As long as lambda is there, people
will still use it for certain tasks, and sorting seems to be one of those
tasks.

The most convincing argument for (more powerful) lambdas over named
functions is in the design of custom control structures. For example, let's
say you wanted to define a do-while loop in Python. You could do it like this:

def do_while(proc, test):
    while True:
        proc()
        if not test():
            break
                                
i = 0
def print_and_increment_i():
    global i
    print i
    i += 1
def while_i_lt_10():
    return i < 10
do_while(print_and_increment_i, while_i_lt_10)

With code blocks, you could implement something like this instead:

i = 0
do({||
    print i
    i += 1
}, while={||
    return i < 10
})

As I write this, I feel a bit embarrassed; neither is really all that
readable, to be honest. But I'm going to post it anyway because I think it
illustrates my basic point, which is that the ability to use inline
functions allows you to implement control structures that would otherwise be
awkward and out-of-order. Real-world uses for custom control structures are
often application-specific and don't make much sense out of context. Say
you're working within a framework where you need to manage acquiring locks
and opening and closing resources:

lock.open({||
    resource.acquire({|res|
        res.dilly()
        res.dally()
    })
})

This would ensure that the lock gets closed even if the resource cannot be
acquired, and if everything works out, the resource gets released first, and
then the lock gets closed. The alternative people keep proposing would
result in code like this:

def do_while_resource_acquired(res):
    res.dilly()
    res.dally()

def do_while_lock_open():
    resource.acquire(do_while_resource_acquired)

lock.open(do_while_lock_open)

Notice how the code now reads backwards?

> And I'm not very happy with the decorator syntax either, to be honest.  

I'm not really convinced that their usefulness demands syntax extension. On
the other hand, I've seen concrete examples in Ruby and other languages that
demonstrate the usefulness of code blocks, and in those cases, I think
syntax extension is worthwhile. But we all have different projects with
different needs, so one (wo)man's syntax extension is another's ugly wart.

Without macros, it's hard to please everyone. And with macros, it's hard to
please everyone. ;)

> Intermediate anonymous values make sense at a certain level of 
> granularity but not at all levels.  Practicality beats purity. 

And one (wo)man's practicality is another's impurity.

> On the other hand, I'd never write your first example -- I'd be 
> explicity about the grouping with extra parens.
> 
>    c = math.sqrt( (a*a) + (b*b) )
> 
> It's not syntactically necessary, because it's following standard 
> operator precedence, but it scans much more quickly for me. 
> 
> Indeed, maybe that's what this is all about.  To my mind, when I see a 
> lambda, I already have to stop scanning, push a level on my mental 
> stack, figure out what the heck is going on with the lambda and what 
> it's going to return, and then pop back to the line in progress.  In 
> contrast, when I'm scanning something using a (descriptively) named 
> function, the name should tell me enough of the purpose of the function 
> that I don't need to pause to figure it out.  Thus, it's much quicker 
> for me to scan a reference to a named function than to scan a lambda 
> definition.

Yes, I can understand and sympathize with this viewpoint.

> ISTM that many of these uses can be accomplished by using named 
> functions with variable arguments.   I'll admit that I'm no language 
> expert, and TBH haven't used any of those languages.  But my impression 
> is that the use of (named) function references, dynamic typing, and 
> convenient variable argument syntax can acheive most of the benefits 
> that are touted for lambdas. 

And the use of wrenches, pliers, and mallets can achieve most of the
benefits that are touted for hammers. All of which happen to be objects. ;)

>>(Yet, somehow, decorators slipped through, even though nobody agreeed on a
>>syntax for that either. I don't have a rational explanation for that...)
>
> Nor do I .....  *sigh*

*coughjavacough*

-- 
 .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
        "talking about music is like dancing about architecture."


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 20 07:37:32 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:37:32 +0200
Subject: testing for uniquness in a large list
References: <pan.2004.10.20.10.01.17.525999@lolmc.com>
Message-ID: <1glyglo.1367t9d3zot7sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Lol McBride <newspost at lolmc.com> wrote:

> I'm looking for some help in developing a way to test for the uniqueness
> of an item in a large list.To illustrate what I mean the code below is an
> indicator of what I want to do but I'm hoping for a faster way than the
> one shown.Basically,I have a list of 20 integers and I want to create
> another list of 200000 unique subsets of 12 integers from this list.WhatI
> have done here is to use the sample()function from the random module
> and then compare the result to every item in the ints list to check for
> uniqueness - as you can guess this takes an interminable amount of time to
> grind through.Can someone please enlighten me as to how I can do this and
> keep the amount of time to do it to a minimum?

One word: dictionaries!

Untested, but should work...:


import random         # dont't use from...import *, on general grounds

def picks(seq=xrange(1, 21), rlen=200000, picklen=12):
    results = {}
    while len(results) < rlen:
        pick = random.sample(seq, picklen)
        pick.sort()
        pick = tuple(pick)
        results[pick] = 1
    return results.keys()

this returns a list of tuples; if you need a list of lists,

    return [list(pick) for pick in results]

In 2.4, you could use "result=set()" instead of {}, results.add(pick) to
maybe add a new pick, and possibly "return list(result)" if you need a
list of tuples as the function's overall return value (the list
comprehension for the case in which you need a list lists stays OK).
But that's just an issue of readability, not speed.  Slight speedups can
be had by hoisting some lookups out of the while loop, but nothing
major, I think -- eg. sample=random.sample just before the while, and
use sample(seq, picklen) within the while.  Putting all the code in a
function and using local variables IS a major speed win -- local
variable setting and access is WAY faster than globals'.


Alex


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Tue Oct 19 15:54:31 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:54:31 -0400
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
In-Reply-To: <1glx9uk.19y2l5yvlo403N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5138.1098132727.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl2ldp$p5o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5179.1098204696.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.5184.1098208437.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl3mgv$i24$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1glx9uk.19y2l5yvlo403N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041019195431.GD21693@performancedrivers.com>

On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 09:30:31PM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>    ...
> > >>iavailable = chain(stock, starmap(random.random, repeat(())))
>    ...
> > No, you cannot pass a callable to repeat() and have it called. In the above
> > line repeat(()) yields the same empty tuple ad infinitum. The trick is that
> > starmap() calls random.random() with that empty tuple as the argument list,
> 
> Stylistically, I prefer
>     iter(random.random, None)
> using the 2-args form of the built-in iter, to 
>     itertools.starmap(random.random, itertools.repeat(()))
>
> kallisti:~/cb alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import random, itertools as it'
\ > 'list(it.islice(it.starmap(random.random, it.repeat(())), 666))'

unrelated, I also often import itertools as 'it'.  It bothers me because
I do it frequently (grep says 25 of 97 modules).  Moving all of itertools into
builtins seems like overkill, but could we hang them off the 'iter' builtin?
Making the above:

> kallisti:~/cb alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import random'
\ > 'list(iter.islice(iter.starmap(random.random, iter.repeat(())), 666))'

My life would definitely get easier, no more assuming 'it' is imported and
then adding the import when I find out differently.

A quick dir() of iter shows no conflicts.
>>> dir(iter)
['__call__', '__class__', '__cmp__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__name__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__self__', '__setattr__', '__str__']


-Jack



From exogen at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 02:19:04 2004
From: exogen at gmail.com (Brian Beck)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 02:19:04 -0400
Subject: Comparing WSDL & SOAP libraries...
Message-ID: <cjqq2l$aro$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>

Hi again folks!

I tried searching the newsgroup for this and nobody seemed to be asking 
the questions I wanted.

I'm trying to take advantage of the Google API using Python, and it 
comes with a WSDL file in order to do so.  Of course, I immediately 
figured someone must have already written a WSDL parser in Python.

It appears that I have a few options...

SOAPy - http://soapy.sourceforge.net/
wsdl4py - http://www-124.ibm.com/developerworks/projects/wsdl4py/
ZSI - http://packages.debian.org/testing/python/python-zsi

It also looked like there was a tutorial using a 'WebService' module, 
but I couldn't immediately find a home page for this -- it may have been 
the project that SOAPy is a part of.

I'd simply like to know if someone has already done all the research in 
this area and has come to a conclusion regarding which one of these is 
the 'best'?  Easiest to set up and use, fastest, frequently updated, etc...

Anyone know?

Thanks!

   Brian


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 16:20:53 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:20:53 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > Me too.  nevow forever...!!!
> 
> Hm, it says on their page:
> 
> "However, no actual code may be embedded in the HTML template"
> 
> alas these are the sort of design decisions that
> won't adapt well for real life scenarios.

Works fine for me.

> Should we use code in templates? No. Should we make
> every possible effort to prepare the data exactly as
> we need. Absolutely.

The template is not going to be exactly the HTML code we need to output,
of course; that's what the nevow namespace is all about --
letting the template get the data it needs and pick the rendering
approach it prefers among those the application makes available.


> Yet as soon as the whole thing is working we realize
> that we forgot something and that fixing it the
> "right way" will cause a significant setback. That's
> reality, trying to avoid these by mandating a
> certain behavior will only make the framework less
> usable.

What setback?  If you've omitted to provide (e.g.) a rendering method
you realize you need, you add it to the Python code and access it with
the appropriate nevow:data="whatever" attribute in the template.  No
problem.


> And that is where ZPT shines. You want full separation
> go ahead. You want to bend the rules a bit go ahead.

Special cases are not special enough to break the rules.

That's what makes Python great.  It's what will make nevow great when it
gets a bit more stable (it IS still at 0.3, after all -- and I've seen
bugs in 0.3 that are already fixed in CVS [duplicating the patch I was
going to submit, natch;-)]).

> You want to do it the wrong way and put your entire
> program into the first "define" tag, well, guess
> what you can do that too.

If you think that's a plus, go ahead, but then to be consistent you
should be coding in Perl...


> ps. as I look that the data/render example, I noticed
> the color attribute is actually created in the
> code ... IMO this is exactly what we are trying to avoid
> with templating. There is no indication in the
> template that a new attribute is going to be added
> to the tag ...

Not sure what example you mean (I'm not up to date on nevow's current
docs).  If the template gives control over to a rendering method, it's
of course fine for the rendering method to perform whatever rendering
alterations it's documented to perform.  I disagree that removing
rendering functionality from code is "exactly what we're trying to
avoid": _some_ rendering requires logic (conditionals, loops) and
getting such logic OUT of the HTML is what _I_ see templating as being
mostly about.

There are many finer-grained ways, such as nevow:slot and
nevow:attribute, for the template to suggest exactly what aspects of the
rendering should be controlled by the code.


> compare this to the same thing in ZPT:
> 
> <span tal:content="name" tal:attributes="style color">Tag Name</span>

With the appropriate renderer (and NS declaration), the nevow equivalent
might be:

<span n:render="name">
    <n:attr name="style"> <n:slot name="color"/> </n:attr>
</span>

It could well be simpler, in many ways, depending on how the renderer
method render_name in the code behind this page is specified (where else
but as a style attribute should the color go, for example?  so wanting
to spell it out this way may be redundant).  But the point is, the logic
is in the code, Python code well out of this HTML file; the role of the
template is to provide the HTML basis, and tag where the current data
comes from, which method renders it, and what spots need to be
identified (as slots, attrs, or patterns).


Alex


From http  Fri Oct  8 02:16:36 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 23:16:36 -0700
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <7xoejdvinv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Bryan Olson <fakeaddress at nowhere.org> writes:
> So what's the solution?  A global-interpreter-lock works; that's
> what Python has now; but we lose much of the power of multi-
> processing systems.   We could give every object its own lock,
> but the locking overhead would defeat the purpose (and inter-
> object conditions can be trickier than they might look).

Giving every object its own lock is basically what Java does.  Is it
really so bad, if done right?  Acquiring or releasing the lock can be
just one CPU instruction on most reasonable processors.  I've been
wondering about this for a while.


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 08:55:15 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:55:15 -0400
Subject: A newbie in more need....
In-Reply-To: <9c3edc58.0409302034.54f93dd2@posting.google.com>
References: <9c3edc58.0409302034.54f93dd2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <_PmdnZJ4xYsuzsDcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>

Chris Patton wrote:
> I am writing a program that writes a number of classes, which are all
> fundementally the same thing. The only thing that is different is the
> names. Therefore, I need to write a bunch of classes in the quickest
> time I can. Here's what I was thinking of:
> 
> num = 1
> while num < 20:
>       exec 'class bug'+num+':'
>       exec '      gender = "m"'
>       exec '      size = 0'
>       exec '      skill = 0'
> 
> Obviously, the "exec" statement severley slows the time it takes to
> write these classes. I need a new method! If possible I would like to
> avoid the use of the "exec" statement alltogether.

for i in range(1, 20):
     class _proto:
         gender = "m"
         size = 0
         skill = 0

     globals()['bug%s' % i] = _proto

This does almost exactly what you want, and for most
intents and purposes is the same thing.  (The encoded
name of the class is different, but that shouldn't
be relevant to you in most cases.)

The real question has already been asked by others,
however:  what's the point of auto-generating names for
things when nothing will be able to refer to them without
knowing their names in advance anyway?

-Peter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct  5 19:04:08 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:04:08 -0700
Subject: [severely off topic now] New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <41631830.2000401@cloudthunder.com>
References: <20041005132902.ECE3.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<41631830.2000401@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <20041005152540.ECF2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

 
> Indeed, I don't remember myself ever cheating (in the suggested manner 
> or otherwise) , though I did write people's philosophy papers for them 
> (for money).

While such is a money maker, I am sure, I question your morals for
having done so, even being in philosophy (unless you were starving, as
can be the case in graduate school).

> >Ahh the devil, if one chooses to believe in them, I am surely not.
> >Mailing list Don...not even close.  I'm just a guy who can prove who he
> >is.  And at least for some places on the internet, that can matter.
> 
> I merely meant that you appeared to be playing one, not that I (or you) 
> believe they exist.  But in order for us to talk of them (and their 
> existence/non-existence) we must have a pre-existing notion(s) of what 
> one is.  Indeed, this is what I referring to, the *notion* of a devil.

There are probably 10 levels of discussion waiting to happen here, but
I'm not going to go there.

You expressed concern that I was not a nice person and would do not-nice
things with your personal information. While I may be quite an
unpleasant person on occasion, the fact that you can verify online that
I am who I claim, and that at least I write as if I am a relatively
stand-up guy, suggests that I am at least aware of people's perceptions
of me, and that I conciously choose to write as if I were not a
sociopath (if I was one in the first place).

I could make the claim that since there are people who seem to associate
themselves with me online (far more than any one person could reasonably
fake), and who claim to know me in the real world, the odds of me being
a sociopath are relatively low.

> I found great humor in your reply.  Indeed, your replies were helpful.  
> What might you do illegal of which I might want to discover your true 
> identity?

I never claimed that it would be useful for /you/ to know who I was.  A
semantic argument perhaps, but one that was the result of careful
forethought.

"Had I broken the law in my post (a surprisingly easy thing to do in the
states), knowing that I was who I claimed to be would be particularly
useful."

In the case of something that I could say that would be useful to you to
know, I could have provided a single bit of pre-written code that would
have answered nearly all of your questions.  That bit of code could have
come from any one a number of the libraries I have written for contract,
which in the US could be construed as either copyright violation or
fraud (breach of contract is fraud).

While it wouldn't much matter to you who I was, it would matter for
those who would seek to prosecute me.  Thankfully I have done nothing of
the sort, so am currently not subject to litigation on that front.

> If you begin cursing and saying fouls things, I would merely 
> leave the mailing-list/newsgroup or hope that the admin would kill-file 
> you.  No need for legal action.

Ahh, but if I were particularly vile and expressed some physical threat
(this is not, by the way), such would be considerd 3rd degree assault,
and even over the internet, I believe is prosecutable in the United
States (difficult, but possible).  And in that case, knowing that I am
who I claim to be, would be terribly useful.

 - Josiah



From bryanjugglercryptographer at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 19:32:49 2004
From: bryanjugglercryptographer at yahoo.com (bryanjugglercryptographer at yahoo.com)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 16:32:49 -0700
Subject: Close a socket externally
In-Reply-To: <Y9l7d.262597$bp1.228320@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
References: <Y9l7d.262597$bp1.228320@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1096673569.579558.114260@k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com>


drs wrote:

> I have a program which opens a socket server in a thread.  I need for
the
> server to listen on the socket for a certain amount of time (say, ten
> seconds or so) and then close it, and am wondering if there is a good
way to
> close the socket other than sending it a message from another thread
to
> close itself.

Yes, you can either set a timeout on the socket, or use
select.select() with a timeout.  When waiting for new
connections, a socket will select as readable when a new
connection arrives.

> That is, I am looking for a way to forcably kill a socket
> from a second thread, not to send it a message to kill itself.

The timeout/select solution is along different lines, but if I
understood your initial statement of the problem, it's how most
sockets programmers do that kind of thing.


-- 
--Bryan



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Oct 20 19:44:48 2004
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:44:48 -0700
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.4b1 is available
Message-ID: <4176F870.3070403@activestate.com>

We are pleased to announce that ActivePython 2.4b1 is now available
from:

     http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/ActivePython

This is a beta release matching the recently tagged core Python 2.4b1.
Builds for Windows, Linux and Solaris are available.

We would welcome any and all feedback to:
     ActivePython-feedback at ActiveState.com
Please file bugs against ActivePython at:
     http://bugs.ActiveState.com/ActivePython


What is ActivePython?
---------------------

ActivePython is ActiveState's quality-assured binary build of Python.
Builds for Windows, Linux and Solaris and made freely available.

In addition to the Python core, ActivePython includes commonly used
external modules such as expat for XML processing, zlib and bzip2 for
data compression, the bsddb database library, Tcl/Tk 8.4.4 (with Tix);
the PyWin32 suite of Windows tools developed by Mark Hammond, including
the Pythonwin IDE, bindings to the Win32 API and Windows COM; and more.

ActivePython also includes a wealth of Python documentation, including:
- the core Python docs;
- Andrew Kuchling's "What's New in Python" series;
- the Non-Programmer's Tutorial for Python;
- Mark Pilgrim's excellent "Dive into Python"; and
- a snapshot of the Python FAQs, HOWTOs and PEPs.

An online version of the docs can be found here:
     http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/ActivePython/2.4/welcome.html

Thanks, and enjoy!

Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
trentm at activestate.com


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Oct  1 12:07:38 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:07:38 -0300 
Subject: Proxy-Authorization with pyGoogle and pyAmazon?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7A29@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[wjppmp at gmail.com]

#- Just starting out with python. I can get Google.py and Amazon.py
#- working at home but in the office the proxy requires authorization.
#- 
#- Is there an easy way to pass the username and password?
#- If not, is there a work around?

What kind of proxy-auth?

Here at office I need to auth NTLM, and use the excellent (free and in
python) http://apserver.sourceforge.net/. The only drawback is that is a
standalone program, it's not already prepared to use it like a module.

.	Facundo
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From bkc at Murkworks.com  Fri Oct  8 17:26:06 2004
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:26:06 -0400
Subject: XSL transform with Python
References: <33a013af.0410060646.3a821dc7@posting.google.com><mailman.4456.1097101225.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<d116fbae.0410081040.393a0c75@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck70lp$dug$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Uche Ogbuji" <uche at ogbuji.net> wrote in message
news:d116fbae.0410081040.393a0c75 at posting.google.com...

> > It's plenty fast, and you can re-use compiled stylesheets (that's not
> > demonstrated above)
>
> You can easily do the same with 4XSLT.
>

I'm sure you can.

Though, when I started with libxml2, my target was a 66mhz 68K with uClinux
and 4 meg of ram. I think 4XSLT was too big and/or too slow in that
environment.






From scarlson at omnimn.com  Tue Oct 12 12:05:16 2004
From: scarlson at omnimn.com (Scott Carlson)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 09:05:16 -0700
Subject: file comparisons
Message-ID: <df19e346.0410120805.608ada7e@posting.google.com>

Still new to Python, but liking it.

Using Windows.

Synopsis:

I create some files in a Temporary Folder while doing some work.  

Then, I want to look in a (different)Primary Folder to see if
similarly named Files exist.

If I find two Files with the same name, I want to know if the contents
of the Files are exactly the same (I don't care about the date/time of
the File).

If they are different I want to move the new one into the Primary
Folder.


I'm thinking there's a nice concise way to do this.

Thanks,
Scott Carlson


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Oct 23 08:41:15 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:41:15 +0200
Subject: How to get an encoding a value?
References: <mailman.5323.1098459379.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2tspdiF238hqeU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <wzfz4561zo.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> "Diez B. Roggisch" <deets.nospaaam at web.de> (DBR) wrote:

DBR> You are confusing unicode with strings with a certain encoding.

DBR> Unicode is an abstract specification of a huge number of characters,
DBR> hopefully covering even the close-to-unknown glyphs of some ancient
DBR> himalayan mountain tribe to the commonly used latin alphabet. There are no
DBR> actual numeric values associated with that glyphs.

You mix up characters and glyphs which makes it confusing.
There are no numeric values associated with glyphs in Unicode, but there
are numeric values associated with abstract characters. 

(http://www.unicode.org/standard/WhatIsUnicode.html)
Unicode provides a unique number for every character, no matter what the
platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language.  

These numbers are called `code points'. (It says `unique' above, but later
they relax that).

But you are right regarding the encodings. The Unicode code points can be
encoded in different ways e.g. with the UTF-8 encoding.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Oct  6 03:14:28 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 06 Oct 2004 09:14:28 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<5Wu8d.25573$H11.796921@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <tyf7jq4co8b.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

gabriele renzi <rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz ha scritto:
> 
> > _Most_ object-oriented languages support object orientation via the
> > message passing paradigm. Python included.
> 
> I disagree slightly.
> I think the difference is really subtle, [...]

I agree completely :-)


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 12 21:00:02 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:00:02 -0700
Subject: PIL question - saving JPEG
In-Reply-To: <3Q_ad.68505$a85.7158@fed1read04>
References: <mphad.42310$a85.20380@fed1read04>
	<3Q_ad.68505$a85.7158@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <20041012175811.0912.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:40:36 -0700
"news.west.cox.net" <sean.berry2 at cox.net> wrote:

> 
> Got it working.
> 
> I needed to copy the PIL directory intp site-packages/PIL...
> apparently the pyc files do not get recreated automatically.

.pyc files are created from .py files, but if you only have .pyc files,
Python will work with them.

I would bet there weren't any .py files in site-packages/PIL.

 - Josiah



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Oct 25 19:29:18 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:29:18 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>
Message-ID: <1098746958.22370.116.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 08:37 +1000, Tim Churches wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 01:16, Grant Edwards wrote:
> > Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
> > in site-packages) in an application.
> > 
> > Let's also say I use py2exe to package and distribute said
> > application.
> > 
> > Is what I'm distributing a "derived work" of the GPL'd python?
> > Or is py2exe's packaging of the module's .pyc file and my
> > application code's .pyc files a "mere aggregation" so that I
> > only have to provide source code for the GPL'ed module and not
> > for my application code?
> 
> See the GPL FAQ at
> http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#MereAggregation :

If this interpretation is true, then I suppose I'm going to have to
reassess my position on the GPL and agree with Microsoft <gasp> that the
GPL is "viral".  I had always dismissed this claim as pure FUD, but the
following gives pause:

'''                
By contrast, pipes, sockets and command-line arguments are communication
mechanisms normally used between two separate programs. So when they are
used for communication, the modules normally are separate programs. But
if the semantics of the communication are intimate enough, exchanging
complex internal data structures, that too could be a basis to consider
the two parts as combined into a larger program.
'''

If this is true, I can't think of any way for a program to run on a
GPL'd system (such as Linux) without becoming GPL'd itself (Unless it
doesn't do any I/O or malloc any memory <wink>).  While it's true that
the LGPL is far more lenient in this regard (and is used by many system
libraries, along with the BSD license), the LGPL is also now disdained
by the FSF and *might* not be used universally by the long chain of
libraries/system calls any non-trivial application might inadvertently
use.  The bottom line is that any developer of GPL'd software on that
platform is going to need to review every single library that the
program might use.  It also raises questions about what the GPL means
when calls are made into the (GPL'd) kernel.  If I malloc some memory
(via libc) and libc calls into the kernel, how does that affect me?
Clearly the linkage is "intimate" as I doubt the memory will be passed
to my program via a pipe or command line argument <wink>.  Does libc
(which I believe to be LGPL or at least provides a clause for linking)
somehow "launder" the licensing of the kernel call before it gets to my
program?

Now, I know that in practical day-to-day terms, this means little.
Linus clearly has no intention of preventing closed-source apps from
running on Linux.  Nevertheless, to a corporate attorney reviewing this
sort of thing, it would seem clear that non-GPL apps cannot easily exist
on Linux.

Suddenly thinking that BSD-style licenses might be better after all...

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From ville at spammers.com  Mon Oct 11 12:29:20 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 19:29:20 +0300
Subject: The IDE question
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7k6ty4gom.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<MPG.1bd4721391fc4c02989691@news2.atlantic.net>
Message-ID: <du7u0t1p6an.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "ChrisH" == ChrisH  <secun at yahoo.com> writes:

    ChrisH> How is the debugger working on pydev?  I haven't looked at
    ChrisH> it in a while.

Much better than it was before 0.6.1. It used to be so slow as to be
completely unusable, now the speed is ok - not perfect, the response
is not instantaneous, but usable anyway.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Wed Oct 13 06:27:53 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:27:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: mxDateTime package question
References: <991e921f.0410121213.213f0807@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckivv9$jtg$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

prashant_pai at yahoo.com (Prashant Pai) writes:

>I have a Julian (?) date string '2000238' (format YYYYDDD) which
>corresponds to 2000/08/25

>How do I create a correct DateTime object with this?

Logically you could do:

>>> import mx.DateTime
>>> mx.DateTime.strptime('2000238','%Y%j')
<DateTime object for '2000-08-25 00:00:00.00' at 403ae410>

However that doesn't work on all systems.  Works on my Linux systems but not
my BSD ones :(  Depends on the C implementation of strptime which has never
been 100%

Probably better to do:

year,day = ...
mx.DateTime.strptime(year,'%Y') + int(day) - 1

eg:

>>> mx.DateTime.strptime('2000','%Y')+237
<DateTime object for '2000-08-25 00:00:00.00' at 4039c138>


which is more portable.

Eddie



From anna at aleax.it  Sun Oct 10 15:22:31 2004
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Martelli Ravenscroft)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:22:31 GMT
Subject: Database Connectivity
In-Reply-To: <1gl8by8.1ay6g301hrswe8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
	<1gl8by8.1ay6g301hrswe8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <XZfad.18001$b5.884997@news3.tin.it>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>    ...
> 
>>>>I want to develope a simple Database connectivity program with python.
>>>>I want to use MS Access as a backend.
>>
>>      Access, itself, is merely a GUI builder front-end. You are
>>likely using M$ JET as the database engine.
> 
> 
> Amen!  People keep making this mistake over and over and over again.
> Access is a product Microsoft sells; Jet is one they give away for free;
> etc, etc -- how CAN it be so hard to distinguish?!

How can it be so hard to distinguish?

Gee - how about - cuz M$ doesn't bother telling you? It *says* M$ Access 
- right there on the package and on the computer. It doesn't say M$ 
Jet... I used M$ Access for years, even took classes in it, did some 
pretty kewl stuff with it. Never was Jet mentioned anywhere at anytime. 
I found out from a geek buddy by accident one day...

BTW: I just did a google check:

the Product Overview page for M$ Access 2003 doesn't mention Jet once!
http://www.microsoft.com/office/access/prodinfo/overview.mspx

Nor does the Data Access and Storage Developer Center page! 
http://msdn.microsoft.com/data/Default.aspx

and it ain't just M$. I found a lovely page called AccesSolutions: 
Microsoft Access Database Solutions, with not a single mention of Jet.

In other words, if you didn't already *know*, you're damned unlikely to 
find out until some "real" database geek gives you a hard time about not 
knowing.


Anna


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 17 00:14:12 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 04:14:12 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02>
Message-ID: <4171edbf.9519908@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:11:37 GMT, "Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote:

>I have a number of strings, containing wildcards (e.g. 'abc#e#' where # 
>is anything), which I want to match with a test string (e.g 'abcdef'). 
>What would be the best way for me to store my strings so lookup is as 
>fast as possible?

Insufficient info. But 'fast as possible' suggests putting your strings in
a flex grammar and generating a parser in c. See
    http://www.gnu.org/software/flex/
Defining a grammar is a good exercise in precise definition of the problem anyway ;-)

If you want to do it in python, you still need to be more precise...

- is # a single character? any number of characters?
- if your test string were 'abcdefabcdef' would you want 'abc#e#' to match the whole thing?
  or match abcdef twice?
- if one wild card string matches, does that "use up" the test string so other wild card strings
  mustn't match? If so, what has priority? Longest? shortest? Other criterion? 
- etc etc

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  2 14:08:37 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:08:37 -0600
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>	<JaOdnbKT9I4chMHcRVn-vQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.4144.1096560257.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415e6f0d$0$41688$1b2cd167@news.euronet.nl>
	<cjmqgs$tnq$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <cjmqpu$tnq$2@sea.gmane.org>

Fernando Perez wrote:

> being actively developed by a strong team (not just John Hunter, but also the
> good folks from the Hubble Space Telescope Science Institute).

Just to clarify the above.  John is a great coder, but he is obviously busy and
his professional research also demands much of his time beyond matplotlib.  The
point I was trying to make is that matplotlib is not a one-man effort. 
Instead, it has the support of a strong team of scientists who use it in a real
production environment.

Best,

f



From cjankowski at hbr-inc.com  Wed Oct 20 14:33:46 2004
From: cjankowski at hbr-inc.com (Chris Jankowski)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 11:33:46 -0700
Subject: Pointer to Image
References: <a1301a8e.0410190637.74a091ad@posting.google.com>
	<d5zesplp.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <a1301a8e.0410201033.43a05eb8@posting.google.com>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote in message news:<d5zesplp.fsf at python.net>...
> cjankowski at hbr-inc.com (Chris Jankowski) writes:
> 
> > Hi all,
> > I am still new to using Python, so bare with me.  I am trying to call
> > a DLL from my program to use some of it's functions.  The only
> > parameter is supposed to be a pointer to an image.  I have tried
> > several variations on passing this parameter to the DLL and I am not
> > having much luck.  This is going to call other functions later for
> > OCR, but I want to get a simple one working first.
> >
> > Here is my code:  (Very basic)
> >
> > from ctypes import *
> > import Image
> >
> > myOcr = windll.LoadLibrary('ocrdll.dll') # my DLL
> >
> > mySize = myOcr.GetImgBitmapSize ## load the function
> >
> > im = Image.open('C:\\chris.tif') ## load the Image
> > print id(im)  ## for testing print address of im
> >
> > ##myFile = c_char_p(id(im))  # I have tried several variations of this
> >
> > x = mySize(myFile)  ##  Actual call to the DLL Function
> >                     ##  documentation only one parameter passed
> > pointer to Image
> >                     ##  Must be DIB Image(Device Independent Bitmap)
> >                     ##  (could this be the problem?)
> > Thanks for the help.
> 
> I assume the Image function you import in the code above is from PIL?
> In this case, it cannot work.  You cannot take the address (id) of an
> arbitrary Python object, and assume that it points to C compatible data.
> Maybe you should use a function from the dll to load the image data, or
> you can read the file's bytes into python string, and pass that.
> 
> Thomas

Here is what I have now.

from ctypes import *
def myOutputHandler(infotype, param):
    outputFile.write("outhandler")
    if infotype == "OT_TEXT":
        print param
##        return param
##    elif infotype == "OT_ENDL":
##        return "\n"
##    elif infotype == "OT_ENDZ":
##        return "\n\n"
    return
#***************************************************************
#* main process                                                *
#* myList - requests                                           *
#* inList - data file                                          *
#***************************************************************
if __name__ == '__main__':
    outputFile=open('c:\\newOCR.txt', 'w')
    myOcr = cdll.LoadLibrary('C:\\SimpleOCR\\ocrdll.dll')
    loadImg = myOcr.LoadMultipleImg
    x = loadImg("c:\\chris.tif")
    print x
    setLanguage = myOcr.SetLanguage
    setLanguage('ENGLISH',".")

    setOutputMode = myOcr.SetOutputMode
    setOutputMode("OM_TEXT")

    setOutputHandler = myOcr.OCRSetOutputHandler
    z = id(myOutputHandler)
    errorx = setOutputHandler(z)
        
    getImage = myOcr.GetImage
    img = getImage(x,0)

    getNBImages = myOcr.GetNbImages
    numImg = getNBImages(x)

    processOCR = myOcr.OCR 
    myTest = processOCR(img)  ## it will run without this line.
    
    freeMultipleImage = myOcr.FreeMultipleImg
    freeMultipleImage(x)

    outputFile.close()

This will not run it abends when I try to call the .OCR function.  I
am thinking that it cannot call the procedure to write the file.  Any
ideas?


From jojoba12 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  5 23:45:50 2004
From: jojoba12 at hotmail.com (jojoba)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 20:45:50 -0700
Subject: how to make toolbar icon flash
Message-ID: <2e7523c1.0410051945.73b553f5@posting.google.com>

hello all,

I am using Tkinter and Python 2.3.

Anyone out there know how to make an icon (for a minimized window)
flash in the toolbar (a la when you get an instant message)?

Thank you to anyone!
jojoba


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Oct 26 19:50:03 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:50:03 +0200
Subject: High volume websites using Python web server software?
Message-ID: <417ee2ab$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Hi,
Things like Twisted, medusa, etc.... that claim to be able
to support hundreds of concurrent connections because of the
async I/O framework they're based on....
can someone give a few examples of some web sites actually
using those Python frameworks?

Thanks :)

--Irmen


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Oct 13 02:45:41 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 09:45:41 +0300
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
	<du7hdp0qv7s.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<5339b60d.0410120548.31dfde29@posting.google.com>
	<ba129ce7.0410122153.2b65bdc1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7655f15gq.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "john" == John  <johng2001 at rediffmail.com> writes:

    john> use omniORB. I dropped SOAP for most part after I found that
    john> CORBA complexity was just a myth. I just did not think CORBA

Tell me about it! CORBA is perceived as complex because of the
low-levelish and painful C++ binding, but the Python binding proves
that it's actually a pretty simple way of doing the complex thing.

Duncan Grisby (of omniORB fame) debunks lots of CORBA myths in his
presentations that are available online:

http://www.grisby.org/presentations/

Mark my words, CORBA's day will come ;-).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From nelson at crynwr.com  Mon Oct  4 23:18:54 2004
From: nelson at crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 20:18:54 -0700
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
References: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
	<FXf8d.2597$M05.1234@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1db750f5.0410041918.54d3e8d1@posting.google.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<FXf8d.2597$M05.1234 at newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> 'Dave said '

You are cruel .... and vicious.

> Were this implemented I would suggest that whitespace
> characters not be allowed, or at least be prohibited
> from the terminal points of the Mandis quote indicators.

Very likely a sanity-preserving requirement.

> I was going to say it precludes reading in a huge block
> of bytes (>1GB in size) and quoting it because you'll need
> to buffer everything in memory.  Then I remembered string
> concatenation.  Process 1MB at a time.

Sure, they're not hard to parse.  LALR(1).

> When the text is saved, the editor is free to use an
> arbitrarily created Mandis quote delimiter.

No question but that an editor should be helpful.

> When working with byte oriented data it's very helpful
> to be able to see a text representation for non-printable
> data.  For example, seeing "\r\n" instead of "
> " (actually, that's only a "\n").  Similarly there are
> non-visible unicode characters, including

This is more of a text editor problem than anything else.  In THE,
when you select something, the invisible characters get rendered
visibly.  Other editors can do similar things.  When we get to a 100%
Unicode world, they'll have to do something.  Same thing for Unicode
glyphs that get presented identically.

> Any binary data can be inside the quote.  When does the
> program know that that binary data is a representation
> of unicode characters?

That's a good question, I'll ask Jef.  He's an inventive guy, he may
have thought of a solution already.
-russ


From godoy at ieee.org  Fri Oct  8 12:29:27 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:29:27 -0300
Subject: [OT] New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4329.1096975106.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6u3c.1eo6g6qc3j9vdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2sjravF1im94sU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.4476.1097130594.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3r7o9gom0.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Stephen Waterbury <golux at comcast.net> writes:

> ... except for the 8+ hour (minimum!) round-trip time for your
> signal to get to Neptune and back.  Ha, you thought internet latency
> was a pain?  Yes, boys and girls, Neptune be eight light-*hours*
> away.  Earth small; space *BIG*!  (Even in our own tiny little
> neighborhood.  ;)

Do you mean that the "You have 5s to stop the nuclear reactor meltdown
in Neptune" message I got doesn't really mean 5s? ;-) Hmm...  I hope
somebody added a time machine protocol to Python.  Some neptunians will
be really angry.... ;-)

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Oct 21 04:13:56 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:13:56 +0200
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
Message-ID: <20041021081356.GA12496@mylene.ghaering.de>

[This is a repost from a message to python-dev on the users' list,
because python-dev-ers thought a broader discussion of this is a good
idea.]

Last December, we had a short thread discussing (in python-dev) the
integration of PySQLite into Python 2.4. At the time, I was against
inclusion, because I thought PySQLite was not ripe for it, mostly
because I thought the API was not stable.

Now, I have started writing a new PySQLite module, which has the
following key features:

- Uses iterator-style SQLite 3.x API: sqlite3_compile, sqlite3_step()
  etc. This way, it is possible to use prepared statements, and for
  large resultsets, it requires less memory, because the whole
  resultset isn't fetched into memory at once any longer.

- Completely incompatible with the SQLite 0.x/1.x API: I'm free to
  create a much better API now.

- "In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess." -
  PySQLite 1.x tries to "guess" which Python type to convert to. It's
  pretty good at it, because it queries the column type information.
  This works for, I'd say 90 % of all cases at least. But as soon as
  you use anything fancy like functions, aggregates or expressions in
  SQL, the _typeless_ nature of SQLite breaks through and it will tell
  us nothing about the declared column type (of course, because the
  data is not coming from a database column).

  So I decided to change the default behaviour and make PySQLite
  typeless by default, too. Everything will be returned as a Unicode
  string (the default might be user-configurable per connection).

  Unless, unless of course the user explicitly activates the
  "guess-mode" ;-) But to do so, she must read the docs then she will
  be aware of the fact that it only works in 90 % of all cases.

So why am I bothering you about this?

I think that a simple embedded relational database would be a good
thing to have in Python by default. And as Python 2.5 won't happen
anytime soon, there's plenty of time for developing it, getting it
stable, and integrating it.

Especially those of you that have used PySQLite in the past, do you
have any suggestions that would make the rewrite a better candidate
for inclusion into Python?

One problem I see is that even the new PySQLite will grow and try to
wrap much of the SQLite API that are not directly related to the
DB-API. If such a thing is too complicated/big for the standard
library, then maybe it would be better to produce a much simpler
PySQLite, especially for the Python standard library that leaves all
the fancy stuff out. My codename would be "embsql".

So, what would you like to see? "import sqlite", "import embsql", or
"pypi.install('pysqlite')" ?

-- Gerhard
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From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 14:09:37 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:09:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5357.1098540970.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jtidnZlHj6049OfcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5359.1098542166.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2-idnfYPRs9d8-fcRVn-oA@powergate.ca>
	<864d37090410230912795a565e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041023T200244-62@post.gmane.org>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
> In my opinion, we don't have really to make a choice or a concession
> here. A simple parser can be provided, using a simple interface as the
> one defended by David; and a wrapper implementing the "configuration
> object" can also be provided, using class-based access.

Well said!  This is exactly what I was thinking while I read through this
thread.  I imagine to classes would be provided: ConfigParser, which basically
just reads an INI file and yields (key, value) pairs by section, and
ConfigObject, which uses a ConfigParser to read the INI file and then converts
this to attribute-style access.  Personally, I hate having to write in David
Wilson's suggested style:

    for key, value in self._conf.items('general'):
        if key == 'listen port': # no need for ugly underscore
            ...
        elif key == ....
            ...

and would much prefer the attribute access -- but generally, my config files
contain only one value per key.  Providing both classes allows you to use
whichever style is more reasonable to you.

Steve



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct 18 14:30:49 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:30:49 -0700
Subject: md5 and large files
In-Reply-To: <2tic7kF1vnt1fU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <UqGdncN5T6jxX-7cRVn-2A@powergate.ca>
	<2tic7kF1vnt1fU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20041018111635.0A37.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> Of course I can't... *grin* -- But actually, (correct me if I'm wrong) an 
> MD5 sum is 128 bits long, that are 2^128 different possibilities. Now a 2 
> GB file has 8*2*1024^3 bits, that are 2^17179869184 different 
> possibilities for a 2 GB file. Am I wright thinking that the number of 
> files with an identical md5 sum is now 2^17179869184 / 2^128 = 
> 2^17179869056?

(I know this is a major simplification, but bear with me)

Your probability and numbers are correct.  The problem is that 2^128 is
so damn huge, if a billion computers running at a billion md5s/sec were
all running, it would still take ~10,790,283,070,806 years to see all
md5 digests, assuming that every attempt produces a unique digest (until
we have actually seen them all).

Without a specific attack on md5 (which there is one), the probability
of choosing two arbitrary strings of K characters each, that hash to the
same value with md5, is around 1 in 2^127.  More precisely, you are more
likely to get hit by lightning while being a major candidate for the US
presidential election, than to discover such a pair.

 - Josiah



From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Thu Oct 21 12:48:39 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:48:39 -0400
Subject: Method Underscores?
In-Reply-To: <YwRdd.231$N92.55@fe61.usenetserver.com>
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<mailman.5249.1098340790.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cdJdd.5313$WN5.3726@trndny08>
	<YwRdd.231$N92.55@fe61.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <CLRdd.26753$J16.1547943@news20.bellglobal.com>

Hans Nowak wrote:
> I suppose it might be clearer if one could write
> 
> def +(self, other):
>     ...

And a syntax would be needed to get that function, that's why I like so 
much the Python approach.  My only complain is that _somename_ would 
probably have been enough instead of __somename__.  In C++, all 
_[A-Z_].* are reserved, reserve _.*_ would have been enough in Python IMHO.

Regards,
Nicolas


From exogen at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 20:10:59 2004
From: exogen at gmail.com (Brian Beck)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:10:59 -0400
Subject: Error using httplib documentation example code
In-Reply-To: <ck79h3$evq$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
References: <ck79h3$evq$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <ck7acj$evq$2@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>

Some new developments...

Using the new code, I can successfully read the contents of the response 
if I use r.fp.read() instead of just r.read(), HOWEVER odd ASCII appears 
in the result[1]:

###################################################
[1] Partial result using r.fp.read():

MIME-version: 1.0



0042

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>CWRU Online Phonebook</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>


0060

--
Brian Beck
Adventurer of the First Order


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 28 13:47:35 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:47:35 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041028102350.0BA3.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher) wrote:
> 
> kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik) wrote in message news:<940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd at posting.google.com>...
> > there seems to be a serious problem with allowing numbers to grow in a
> > nearly unbounded manner, as int/long unification does: it hides bugs.
> 
> I think one important clarification needs to be made to this
> statement: it hides bugs in code that depends on the boundedness of
> integers, written before int/long unification.
> 
> The problem with int/long unification is that there is no simple
> pure-Python alternative for those of us who need a bounded integer
> type.  If our code depended on that raised OverflowError in order to
> ensure that our computations were bounded, we're left high and dry
> with ints and longs unified.  We must either drop down to C and write
> a bounded integer type, or we're stuck with code that no longer works.

And as others have said more than once, it is not so common that the
boundedness of one's integers falls on the 32 bit signed integer
boundary.  Ages and money were given as examples.


> I'm by no means claiming that int/long unification is bad, only that
> it leaves a hole in Python's toolbox where none existed before.  I
> challenge anyone here to write a pure-Python class that does bounded
> integer arithmetic, without basically reimplementing all of integer
> arithmetic in Python.

And what is so wrong with implementing all of integer arithmetic in
Python?  About all I can figure is speed, in which case, one could do
the following...

class BoundedInt(object):
    a = [0]
    def f(a):
        a[0] = 1
        return 1
    assert f(a)
    if a[0]:
        def __new__(cls, val, lower, upper):
            #body for creating new bounded int object...
            #only gets called if Python _is not run_ with -O option.
    else:
        def __new__(cls, val, lower, upper):
            #optimized version is a plain integer
            return val
    del f;del a #clean out the namespace
    #insert code for handling bounded integer arithmetic here

Which uses plain integers when Python is run with the -O option, but
bounds them during "debugging" without the -O option.

 - Josiah



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sat Oct 30 02:52:50 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:52:50 -0700
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <20041029230957.0C0A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <mailman.5685.1099087062.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clv2bt$nl7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>  <20041029230957.0C0A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <1099119170.7272.54.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 23:34 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:

> With all that said, if one /could not/ use GPL'd libraries from
> commercial software, then nVidia and ATI would have lawyers knocking on
> their doors for not GPLing their video drivers, as technically, the
> nVidia drivers are derivative works of the Linux kernel.  Not being
> privy to the inner workings of nVidia nor ATI, I will not guess how they
> have managed to release binary-only drivers for linux, and will just say
> that it is being done.

AFAIK there are no ATI binary drivers for Linux.  Those drivers are part
of x.org, developed from ATI's specs.  The NVidia drivers are binary ad
use the GPL'd wrapper approach.  The driver comes in two parts: the
proprietary binary module, where all the interesting stuff happens, and
a GPL-compatible shim between it and the kernel.

Whether or not this is *really* GPL-compliant is still up in the air.
Just because nobody complains about it doesn't mean it's legal.  I
seriously doubt any of the kernel developers have any intention of
"sending lawyers" to NVidia's door over it if it isn't, so the lack of
action doesn't really prove anything other than it works for practical
purposes ;)

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From luismg at gmx.net  Tue Oct  5 16:03:22 2004
From: luismg at gmx.net (Neuruss)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 13:03:22 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Ovp8d.3155$M05.74@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4311.1096951351.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zJp8d.3165$M05.1860@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <278de0e.0410051203.3ac28eae@posting.google.com>

> Indeed.  I did some checking and your email address had no
> hits in Google so I assumed you were a new person.  Even
> your domain is almost unknown to Google Groups except for
> a few recent posts from one other 'nym to comp.lang.python...


For God's sake... Cut the boy some slack!
I don't understand this kind of reactions. If some reader gets
"offended" by someone's post, why not just ignore him and go on with
our lives?
It's incredible the amount of time and text wasted to bash people just
because it sounds a little unpolite.
I myself suffered these type of attacks in previous posts, and even
though I struggled to appologize and make myself clear, it was like a
feast of spanish inquisitors...
What's the strange pleasure of dedicating typing time and energy in
punishing people just for being a little out of place?
A short phrase of warning should be enough, don't you think?


From hohn at hooknose.lbl.gov  Fri Oct 29 17:50:25 2004
From: hohn at hooknose.lbl.gov (Michael Hohn)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:50:25 GMT
Subject: AssertionError in pickle's memoize function
References: <yyo3bzx4e4w.fsf@hooknose.lbl.gov>
	<mailman.5674.1099074661.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yyoy8hp2nyx.fsf@hooknose.lbl.gov>

Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> writes:

> [Michael Hohn]
> > under python 2.2, the pickle/unpickle sequence incorrectly restores
> > a larger data structure I have.
> >
> > Under Python 2.3, these structures now give an explicit exception from
> > Pickle.memoize():
> >    assert id(obj) not in self.memo
> > 
> > I'm shrinking the offending data structure down to find the problem
> > and provide an easily reproducible example,
> > but maybe someone on the list could tell me under what general
> > conditions this assertion is expected to fail.
> 
> Assertions are never expected to fail, so "something impossible
> happened" when they do fail.
> 
> See whether your Python has Lib/pickletools.py.  There's an enormous
> amount of info about pickles in that (for example, it will tell you
> what "memo" means).
> 
> May help to try cPickle instead of pickle.  Since they're distinct
> implementations, they have different bugs.  cPickle can be much faster
> than pickle, but it's a lot easier to understand pickle.py.

Here is a code sample that shows the problem I ran into:

test.py:
=================================
import pickle

class aList(list):
    def __init__(self, arg):
        # w/o this call, pickle works...
        list.__init__(self, arg)
        pass

A = aList([1,2])
B = aList([A, 3])

the_data = {'a': A, 'b': B}
A._stored_by = the_data

pickle.dumps([the_data, B])             # ok
pickle.dumps([B, the_data])             # fails

=================================


Outputs under:

Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin


9 scarlet::~:0> python test.py 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 16, in ?
    pickle.dumps([B, the_data])             # fails
  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/p
ickle.py", line 1386, in dumps
    Pickler(file, protocol, bin).dump(obj)
  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/p
ickle.py", line 231, in dump
    self.save(obj)
  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/p
ickle.py", line 293, in save
    f(self, obj) # Call unbound method with explicit self
  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/p
ickle.py", line 614, in save_list
    self._batch_appends(iter(obj))
  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/p
ickle.py", line 629, in _batch_appends
    save(x)
  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/p
ickle.py", line 338, in save
    self.save_reduce(obj=obj, *rv)
  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/p
ickle.py", line 419, in save_reduce
    self.memoize(obj)
  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/p
ickle.py", line 251, in memoize
    assert id(obj) not in self.memo
AssertionError

with the same problem under python on linux:

Python 2.3 (#1, Jul 31 2003, 14:19:24) 
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-113)] on linux2


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/tmp/python-286703ll", line 1, in ?
    pickle.dumps([B, the_data])             # fails
  File "/usr/local_cci/Python-2.3/lib/python2.3/pickle.py", line 1386, in dumps
    Pickler(file, protocol, bin).dump(obj)
  File "/usr/local_cci/Python-2.3/lib/python2.3/pickle.py", line 231, in dump
    self.save(obj)
  File "/usr/local_cci/Python-2.3/lib/python2.3/pickle.py", line 293, in save
    f(self, obj) # Call unbound method with explicit self
  File "/usr/local_cci/Python-2.3/lib/python2.3/pickle.py", line 614, in save_list
    self._batch_appends(iter(obj))
  File "/usr/local_cci/Python-2.3/lib/python2.3/pickle.py", line 629, in _batch_appends
    save(x)
  File "/usr/local_cci/Python-2.3/lib/python2.3/pickle.py", line 338, in save
    self.save_reduce(obj=obj, *rv)
  File "/usr/local_cci/Python-2.3/lib/python2.3/pickle.py", line 419, in save_reduce
    self.memoize(obj)
  File "/usr/local_cci/Python-2.3/lib/python2.3/pickle.py", line 251, in memoize
    assert id(obj) not in self.memo
AssertionError



From mahesh at privacy.net  Mon Oct 11 11:57:42 2004
From: mahesh at privacy.net (Mahesh Padmanabhan)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:57:42 -0600
Subject: How does one keep python from printing newline at program exit?
In-Reply-To: <64cf9d00.0410110743.ec1920f@posting.google.com>
References: <64cf9d00.0410110743.ec1920f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2svoroF1q3cqqU1@uni-berlin.de>

S. Staats wrote:
> Good day, everbody.
> 
> Here is a simple program called test.py:
> #!/usr/bin/python
> print "No newline, please.",
> # End of program
> 
> Here is what program does:
> prompt> ./test.py
> No newline, please.
> 
> Here is what I want the program to do:
> prompt> ./test.py
> No newline, please.prompt>
> 
> How can I get the python interpreter to not print a newline when it exits?
> 
> Thanks for your help!

sys.stdout.write('No newline, please')


From fakeaddress at nowhere.org  Fri Oct  8 22:23:17 2004
From: fakeaddress at nowhere.org (Bryan Olson)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 02:23:17 GMT
Subject: Simple Python web proxy stalls for some web sites
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4562.1097227151.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <41649d0e@post.usenet.com>	<mailman.4499.1097155423.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1Vn9d.25933$QJ3.12295@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<mailman.4562.1097227151.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pYH9d.8627$nj.1693@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

Richie Hindle wrote:

[Bryan Olson wrote:]
 >>I checked, and Google is answering in good faith.
 >
 > Try doing an actual query:
 >
 >>>>import urllib2
 >>>>f = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.google.com/")  # Works OK
 >>>>f = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.google.com/search?q=python")
 >
 > Traceback (most recent call last):
 > [...]
 > urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden

You're right about that.  I just tried the base-page URL that
was hanging the guys proxy.


-- 
--Bryan


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  6 05:28:18 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 05:28:18 -0400
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
In-Reply-To: <1gl8dkd.1mk43di1xi6v0dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8dkd.1mk43di1xi6v0dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2ZO8d.4763$gk.1267@okepread01>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>As part of a pet project of mine, I needed to find a way to re-execute
>>a class declaration[1]. The reason behind it was simple: the class
> 
> 
> If you start calling it 'class statement' I may read and perhaps help
> with the rest of your post, but since I consider calling 'declaration'
> something that is no more and no less than an executable statement an
> excellent way to try and confuse the issues (by leading many readers to
> expect something completely different from the reality), I'm going to
> personally boycott any post deliberately perpetrating such wilful use of
> language to confuse readers, and I urge the same course of action on
> anybody who cares about clarity, understanding and communication.
> 
> 
> Alex

How would you feel about "class definition"?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From usenet at mail-2-me.com  Thu Oct 14 09:47:31 2004
From: usenet at mail-2-me.com (Dirk Hagemann)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 06:47:31 -0700
Subject: Search-Filter for LDAP (MS Active Directory)
Message-ID: <a37aa972.0410140547.b312ceb@posting.google.com>

Hi!

I asked here a few weeks ago the same question but the answer of Tim
Golden didn't really help yet.

I'd like to know how to set up a query for all computer-accounts in a
special part of Active Directory by using LDAP.

Example:
all computers with a name like "ABC*" at "..., ou=Production,
DC=business,DC=company,DC=com"
>From these computers I want to get their OS, Service Pack and some
other information.
The difficulty is, the computers are in several OUs so I can't just
get through one LDAP-Path and the names of some OUs could change from
one day to another...

I read this RFC (http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2254.txt), but don't
know how to use this in python.

Kind regards
Dirk Hagemann


From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Tue Oct 12 12:53:15 2004
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:53:15 -0700
Subject: File browser cgi in python
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.12.16.53.14.959543@dcs.nac.uci.edu>


Are there any reasonably secure file browser implementations for
unix/linux (and perhaps MacOS X and Windows as well) written in python,
that are accessed over https via a cgi script?

Thanks.



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 25 02:40:00 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 08:40:00 +0200
Subject: replay 'apply' with extended call
References: <10np5sprbh8kp72@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cli72t$du3$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Alan G Isaac wrote:

> Consider an example due to Mertz (in Text Processing in Python):
> apply_each = lambda fns, args=[]: map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))
> This allows one to supply a list of functions and a tuple of arguments
> to produce a list evaluating each function with those arguments.
> 
> But 'apply' is deprecated in favor of extended call syntax.
> What is the equivalent with extended call syntax?

The literal translation would be:

>>> def apply_each(fns, *args, **kw):
...     return [fn(*args, **kw) for fn in fns]
...
>>> times2 = 2 .__mul__
>>> times4 = 4 .__mul__
>>> apply_each([times2, times4], 3)
[6, 12]

But nobody would bother defining such an apply_each() function anymore.
Instead you can use a list comprehension directly:

>>> [f(3) for f in [times2, times4]]
[6, 12]


Peter



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 01:25:58 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:25:58 -0700
Subject: Secure Python code - volunteers for code review?
In-Reply-To: <20041012205021.091B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <1097637663.543580.126100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<20041012205021.091B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <1097645158.10090.3.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 20:52 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > I would really value it if any security aware Python guru was able to
> > review the code from a security perspective.  It would be good to
> > ensure that python or sql code planted in an email or an attachment
> > could not execute and break out of the script - or that any other
> > security issue might arise.  But how - I don't have anything near the
> > level of Python expertise required to properly assess this script for
> > security risk?  If someone has the time to do a code review it would be
> > much appreciated.
> 
> You can save yourself many concerns by encoding your data in some
> fashion that cannot be understood by the database to mean anything.  Hex
> works well for that.

A more straightforward way is to simply use prepare() religiously.  This
also avoids the headache of having to decode your data if you use a
different program to access it (such as psql or mysql).

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From holbertr at dma.org  Mon Oct 11 14:30:31 2004
From: holbertr at dma.org (Rick Holbert)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:30:31 -0400
Subject: Good day, everbody. Here is a simple program called test.py:
	#!/usr/bin/python print "No newline, please.",
	# End of program Here is what program does: prompt> ./test.py No
	newline, please.  prompt>    Here is what I want the program to do
References: <64cf9d00.0410110746.5432650c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckejg8$o49$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

import sys

sys.stdout.write('No newline, please.')

S. Staats wrote:

> Sorry about the 'double' post.  The first one is missing an important
> piece.
>                                                                                 
> Here is a simple program called test.py:
> #!/usr/bin/python
> print "No newline, please.",
> # End of program
>                                                                                 
> Here is what program does:
> prompt> ./test.py
> No newline, please.
> prompt>
>                                                                                 
> Here is what I want the program to do:
> prompt> ./test.py
> No newline, please.prompt>
>                                                                                 
> How can I get the python interpreter to not print a newline when it exits?
>                                                                                 
> Thanks for your help!



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 13 07:50:00 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:50:00 +0200
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> Or, an ugly hack that might work for a while, depending on how
> co_names is really generated. It seems in order of occurrence
> (including right hand sides of assignment, but still top down) ...
> 
> >>>?import?sys
> >>>?def?getnames():?return?sys._getframe(1).f_code.co_names
> ...
> >>>?def?MC(cname,?cbases,?cdict):
> ...?????names?=?cdict.get('ordic',[])
> ...?????names?=?[name?for?name?in?names?if?name?in?cdict]
> ...?????cdict['ordic']?=?dict([(name,i)?for?i,name?in?enumerate(names)])
> ...?????return?type(cname,?cbases,?cdict)
> ...
> >>>?class?C(object):
> ...?????__metaclass__?=?MC?#?really?a?function?shortcut
> ...?????x?=?123
> ...?????y?=?sys
> ...?????z?=?0
> ...?????ordic?=?getnames()
> ...
> >>>?C.ordic
> {'ordic':?5,?'__module__':?0,?'__metaclass__':?1,?'y':?3,?'x':?2,?'z':?4}

A metaclass /function/ and sys._getframe() exercised on a class definition
- I think you have raised the bar for what qualifies as a hack :-)

Peter



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct  5 10:29:12 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:29:12 +0200
Subject: Miscellaneous personal prejudices (was: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL!
	- weekly Python news and links (Oct 4))
References: <cjsh6t$m6u$1@lairds.us> <36i932-lr5.ln1@lairds.us>
	<1tudnWqDWMKcpf_cRVn-qg@rogers.com>
	<du7y8il4ntg.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<TeKdnac_dM00MP_cRVn-vw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <cjub3f$ogp$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Dan Python wrote:

> Done

+1 NCOTW (Name change of the week :-)




From daniele at NOSPAM.org  Tue Oct 12 16:59:35 2004
From: daniele at NOSPAM.org (Daniele)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:59:35 GMT
Subject: gettext support for Linux and Windows
Message-ID: <XAXad.121193$35.6044796@news4.tin.it>

Dearest,

I have a script that I need to localize.

1. step

import gettext

2. step

_ = gettext.gettext

3. step

gettext.bindtextdomain('nbdutils', (os.getcwd() + '\locale'))

4. step

completed my it.po and copied into

locale/it_IT/LC_MESSAGES/it.mo

Running my apps on windows I can't see any translated string.
Please, help me!
-- 
Daniele


From josephdomus at internetdrive.com  Sun Oct 31 22:09:16 2004
From: josephdomus at internetdrive.com (josephdomus at internetdrive.com)
Date: 1 Nov 2004 03:09:16 GMT
Subject: python: 4 Millions Domains data with Category
Message-ID: <4185a8dc_2@nnrp1.news.uk.psi.net>


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From wrightca at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 17 03:14:02 2004
From: wrightca at hotmail.com (Chris Wright)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:14:02 GMT
Subject: How to get user input with time limit?
In-Reply-To: <6bq3n09a3dlbnhbhpt1nrt1ud7l9g4b9t7@4ax.com>
References: <6bq3n09a3dlbnhbhpt1nrt1ud7l9g4b9t7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <41721C1C.2080107@hotmail.com>

User wrote:
> Anyone know of a function like raw_input(), but with a built-in or
> user-specified time limit?  Ideally, it would return an empty string
> ('') and resume processing if the user didn't enter something within
> ~10 seconds.

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/307871
might help

Chris Wright


From miodio67 at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 27 12:10:17 2004
From: miodio67 at hotmail.com (john)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 09:10:17 -0700
Subject: how to check if URL cannot be opened
Message-ID: <99ca2e2f.0410270810.222ebad0@posting.google.com>

Im new to python. So I was hoping someone could provide the following.
How would I go about checking if a user can be opened. For example if
user provides www.x.com, how would I check if there is such a url?
What methods would I need to invoke?

Thank you very much for your time


From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Sat Oct 16 17:56:07 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:56:07 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <ckr3j8$9fq$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02> <ckr3j8$9fq$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <XNgcd.1933$B34.419@trndny02>

Michael Hoffman wrote:
> Chris S. wrote:
> 
>> I have a number of strings, containing wildcards (e.g. 'abc#e#' where 
>> # is anything), which I want to match with a test string (e.g 
>> 'abcdef'). What would be the best way for me to store my strings so 
>> lookup is as fast as possible?
> 
> 
> If it were me, I would store them as compiled regular expressions.
> 
> See the re module documentation and use re.compile().
> 
> If you want a better solution, it might help if you supply a little more 
> information about your problem and why this solution is unsuitable 
> (maybe it is :]).

The problem is I want to associate some data with my pattern, as in a 
dictionary. Basically, my application consists of a number of 
conditions, represented as strings with wildcards. Associated to each 
condition is arbitrary data explaining "what I must do". My task is to 
find this data by match a state string with these condition strings. Of 
course, the brute force approach is to just add each pattern to a 
dictionary, and linearly seach every key for a match. To improve this, I 
considered a trie, implemented as a special dictionary:

class Trie(dict):
     '''Implements a traditional Patricia-style Tria.
     Keys must be sequence types. None key represents a value.'''

     def __init__(self):
         dict.__init__(self)

     def __setitem__(self, key, value):
         assert key, 'invalid key '+str(key)
         d = self
         last = None
         for n in key:
             if n not in d:
                 dict.__setitem__(d, n, {})
             last = (d,n)
             d = dict.__getitem__(d, n)
         (d,n) = last
         dict.__getitem__(d, n)[None] = value

     def __getitem__(self, key):
         d = self
         for n in key:
             assert n in d, 'invalid key '+str(key)
             d = dict.__getitem__(d, n)
         assert None in d, 'missing value for key '+str(key)
         return dict.__getitem__(d, None)

     def __delitem__(self, key):
         previous = []
         d = self
         for n in key:
             assert n in d, 'invalid key '+str(key)
             previous.append((d,n))
             d = dict.__getitem__(d, n)
         assert None in d, 'missing value for key '+str(key)
         # remove value
         dict.__delitem__(d, None)
         # find and remove empty keys
         while len(previous):
             (d,n) = previous.pop()
             if not len(dict.__getitem__(d, n)):
                 dict.__delitem__(d, n)
             else:
                 break

However, I'm uncertain about the efficiency of this approach. I'd like 
to use regexps, but how would I associate data with each pattern?


From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Oct 21 15:10:41 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:10:41 GMT
Subject: Method Underscores? (and a 'solution')
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298@jerf.org>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 05:57:25 +0000, Chris S. wrote:

> Is there a purpose for using trailing and leading double underscores for
> built-in method names? ... a key arguing point against Python.

Yes, I've noticed this one come up a lot on Slashdot lately, more so than
whitespace issues. I haven't checked to see if it's all one guy posting it
or not; next time I think I will, it seems suspiciously sudden to me.

As an argument against Python, implicitly in favor of some other language,
it boggles my mind. Whitespace complaints made before even trying Python I
can at least make some sense of; there are enough people unwilling to even
try something different unless your new language is an exact clone of the
one they already know that you'll hear from them. (Note: This is as
opposed to the small-but-real group of people who actually *try* it and
don't like it; those people I can respect, even as I disagree with them.) 

But what mystical language exists that uses less punctuation than Python?
I've tried to come up with it, and even the obscure ones I can come up
with use more. (The closest one to Python I know is one called UserTalk,
in Frontier, but that one looses due to its use of addresses and
dereferencing, which adds enough punctuation to be harder to read. Also,
it doesn't *have* classes, so no method wierdness.) 

Complaining about them in the sense of "I think we could improve Python if
we drop the underscores" makes sense; again, I'm not talking about that
sense, nor am I trying to make that argument. But as some sort of reason
to not use Python? Riiiiiiiiiight... you might as well just come out and
admit you don't *want* to try it. There's nothing wrong with that, you
know.

Also, since I'm sick of hearing about this, and I intend to use a link to
this post via Google News as a standin for repeating this argument again
somewhere else, here is a metaclass that will make the "ugly underscores"
go away. But look at that list in the variable "MagicMethods"... are you
really sure you're willing to give all of those up? Of course, you can
selectively use the metaclass, but then you have inconsistancy in your
program. But whatever...

Also note the list of methods dwarfs the actual code it took to do this.

-------------------------

"""I'm sick of hearing people bitch about the underscores. Here, let
me 'fix' that for you.

You may need to add magic method names to the set if you implement
other protocol-based things, like in Zope. I did add the Pickle
protocol in because I know where to find it.

Set your class's metaclass to UnUnderscore, and name your methods
'cmp' or 'nonzero' instead of '__cmp__' or '__nonzero__'; see the
example in the sample code."""

import sets

__all__ = ['UnUnderscore']

MagicMethods = sets.Set(('init', 'del', 'repr', 'str', 'lt', 'le',
                         'eq', 'ne', 'gt', 'ge', 'cmp', 'rcmp',
                         'hash', 'nonzero', 'unicode', 'getattr',
                         'setattr', 'delattr', 'getattribute', 'get',
                         'set', 'delete', 'call', 'len', 'getitem',
                         'setitem', 'delitem', 'iter', 'contains',
                         'add', 'sub', 'mul', 'divmod', 'pow',
                         'lshift', 'rshift', 'and', 'xor', 'or',
                         'div', 'truediv', 'radd', 'rsub', 'rmul',
                         'rdiv', 'rtruediv', 'rmod', 'rdivmod',
                         'rpow', 'rlshift', 'rrshift', 'rand', 'rxor',
                         'ror', 'iadd', 'isub', 'imul', 'idiv',
                         'itruediv', 'ifloordiv', 'imod', 'ipow',
                         'ilshift', 'irshift', 'iand', 'ixor', 'ior',
                         'neg', 'pos', 'abs', 'invert', 'complex',
                         'int', 'long', 'float', 'oct', 'hex',
                         'coerce',

                         # Pickle
                         'getinitargs', 'getnewargs', 'getstate',
                         'setstate', 'reduce', 'basicnew')) 

class UnUnderscore(type):
    """See module docstring."""
    def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict):
        super(UnUnderscore, cls).__init__(name, bases, dict)
        for method in MagicMethods:
            if hasattr(cls, method):
                setattr(cls, "__" + method + "__",
                        getattr(cls, method))
                delattr(cls, method)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    # simple test
    class Test(object):
        __metaclass__ = UnUnderscore
        def init(self):
            self.two = 2
        def len(self):
            return 3
    t = Test()
    if len(t) == 3 and t.two == 2:
        print "Works, at least a little."
    else:
        print "Not working at all."



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 15:35:04 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:35:04 -0400
Subject: __author__
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4185.1096654559.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>	<VtydnQODWZ6x78DcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>	<10lqsl4ma3pq33@corp.supernews.com>	<PMadnSzsW4mcEMDcRVn-qA@powergate.ca>	<cjk44b$294$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>	<-tidnddkYpHECMDcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4185.1096654559.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eO-dnaxkOJ31LMDcRVn-qQ@powergate.ca>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
> Peter L Hansen wrote:
>> (I've tended to use VERSION, I believe, but I'm moving towards
>> using a build.xml file containing a variety of meta-information
>> for the entire package, rather than an embedded constant.)
> 
> Ah yes, much easier to work with ;) :
> 
>    import package
>    if [int(i) for i in package.__version__.split('.')[:2]] > [2,3]:
>       blah()
> 
> versus:
> 
>    import package
>    tag = findVersionTag(parseXMLFile(findXMLFile( package )))
>    if (findMajorVersion(tag),findMinorVersion(tag)) > (2,3):
>       blah()
> 
> Just teasing, you know I believe that XML is the solution to all 
> problems in the universe which can't be addressed *directly* with Java 
> ;) .  As long as you're exposing APIs that mean client libraries never 
> have to do the actual finding and parsing of the XML file, having your 
> "get version" API integrated into your package-management code can be 
> very useful for keeping them in sync.
> 
> Still, __version__ is a pretty simple API...

Actually, the XML is invisible to anything outside the application,
while simplifying a variety of things relating to the rest of my
infrastructure, including automatic documentation generation,
testing framework, packaging, and revision control.

At the top of the app/package, I have a "from buildutils import build"
call, and then I can do "build.version", or "build.exename", or
whatever...  if I care to support folks like you who might want to
do "xxx.__version__" I guess I should do a "__version__ = build.version"
at the top of the module...  hadn't thought of that.

Basically, the stuff is read at run-time, so _you_ wouldn't
be able to tell the difference, but I have the information
maintained externally instead of being coupled to the Python
code and inaccessible to, say, InnoSetup or py2exe or my own
utilities which might not or have the means to import the
module.

And as you surmised, this is largely about keeping things in
sync and avoiding duplication.  In the most recent thing that
uses this, I need pieces of the build.xml content in all the
places mentioned above, meaning I've finally achieved my goal
of removing about five different instances of duplication and
my release process can be completely automated, provided I've
remembered to update the version number at all...

-Peter


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Oct  4 09:06:05 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 04 Oct 2004 15:06:05 +0200
Subject: C API eqivalent of object.__new__
References: <tyfis9uewct.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyfekkieka4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gkzg4y.a7sne11n04ng0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacv6e98e.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gkzozy.dbfgcurv3dfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyf655qewni.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gl4rjf.ue50gr1dk7vtfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tyfy8imd45e.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>    ...
> > > "Make it work, make it right, make it fast", as Kent Beck says!-).
> > 
> > I've been quoting (a variation on) this to all and sundry, and
> > attributing it to KB for a few years now, but I've completely
> > forgotten where I came across it. Do you know its origin ?
> 
> Yes, I asked Kent (I wanted to make sure I attributed it properly in my
> book!) for the right wording and origin: the right (original) wording is
> exactly as above, and Kent says that he's heard this motto throughout
> his childhood from his father, an engineer (I dunno in which field, it
> seemed to me that ``as Kent Beck often writes, quoting his father, ...''
> is an excellent attribution, so I didn't check further;-).

... which means that I could have picked this up from just about
anything that Kent has written or even the Python Nutshell or
Cookbook?

Indeed, it's right there at the beginning of the _Optimization_
section of the Nutshell.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Oct 19 22:17:20 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:17:20 -0500
Subject: Turning a string into an programatic mathematical expression
In-Reply-To: <1d6cdae3041019193075d9a137@mail.gmail.com> (Daniel Bickett's
	message of "Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:30:55 -0400")
References: <1d6cdae3041019193075d9a137@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m21xfu16bz.fsf@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel Bickett <dbickett at gmail.com> writes:

    Daniel> The title really says it all. I'm trying to take input
    Daniel> from a user (intended to be a mathematical expression),
    Daniel> from a text box for example, and evaluate it
    Daniel> mathematically within the program. For clarification: the
    Daniel> user inputs the string "4*5(3-3)", I would be interested
    Daniel> in a straight-forward way to find the result of that,
    Daniel> based only on a string. The follow-up question would be
    Daniel> how to incorporate variables into the mix, however I'll
    Daniel> leave it at that for now. Thanks for your time :)

Depending on what sort of grammar you want to require for input
strings, it can be as simple as

  >>> s = "4*5*(3-3)"
  >>> eval(s)
  0

Although it may not appear so at first glance, I think you are
describing a proposed solution to your problem and not the problem you
are really trying to solve.  If you restate the problem you are trying
to solve, you may get better answers.  From my read of your question,
you're on the road to writing a mathematical expression parser.  Note
that python has an expression parser built in, and it gives you access
to that parser in www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-parser.html;,
by reusing the python parser you may save yourself some labor.

If you are interested in numeric rather than symbolic processing of
the mathematical expressions, the weave module, via blitz expression
templates, does something quite close.  You give it strings like
'a*(b+c)' where a, b and c are numeric arrays, and it will use blitz
expression templates to process this in a single loop without the
creation of temporaries and multiple loops that such expressions
generally entail - www.scipy.org/documentation/weave .

The book "Scientific and Engineering C++" by Barton and Nackman
describes how to implement a mathematical expression parser that
supports variables, binary operations, etc.

JDH



From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Oct 13 15:10:03 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:10:03 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <1glgsb2.18pqhx5cl99c3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<%5E9d.7075$UP1.6600@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4167128b$0$538$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<YuG9d.7186$UP1.961@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1glgsb2.18pqhx5cl99c3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f4fbd.2112$6k2.341@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex
>     str1 != str2 and (str1+str2) == (str2+str1)
> 
> I guess I'd better stop here because I can't actually _prove_ the last
> one of these actually implies one of the strings is empty but I can't
> find counterexamples either...!-)

str1 = "a"
str2 = "aa"

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com



From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Oct 25 02:32:39 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:32:39 GMT
Subject: replay 'apply' with extended call
In-Reply-To: <10np5sprbh8kp72@corp.supernews.com>
References: <10np5sprbh8kp72@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <b61fd.1486$kM.997@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alan G Isaac wrote:
> apply_each = lambda fns, args=[]: map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))

> What is the equivalent with extended call syntax?

How about a solution which replaces the 'map' with a
list comprehension?

def apply_each(fns, args = []):
   return [fn(*args) for fn in fns]

Conversion to lambda form is trivial for this case but I
figured if you're going to name it, why use a lambda?


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  6 18:41:17 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 15:41:17 -0700
Subject: How do you write this in python
References: <8f17f4bc.0410022000.e331cbe@posting.google.com>
	<41603d90_1@newsfeed.slurp.net>
	<8f17f4bc.0410041645.630ee821@posting.google.com>
	<g5cc32-976.ln1@suse.zobbo.org>
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410061441.36e60e50@posting.google.com>

ok that makes some sense.

>You can assign properties whenever you want - it does not have to be 
>done in the __init__ method.

This cought my attention so I entered this into the shell to try to do
this very thing:

>>>class card:
      def setProperties(self, name, email):
         self.name = name
         self.email = email
      def show(self):
         print self.name + '/' + self.email

>>>ali = card('ali','ali at ali.com')

I got the following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#27>", line 1, in ?
    ali = card('ali','ali at ali.com')
TypeError: this constructor takes no arguments

I thought you said I could assign the properties at any place so I
defined them in the setProperties() method. What did I do wrong?


From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Oct 15 02:56:48 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:56:48 +0200
Subject: Search-Filter for LDAP (MS Active Directory)
In-Reply-To: <ckmmt8$vbd$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <a37aa972.0410140547.b312ceb@posting.google.com>
	<njh242-p32.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	<ckmmt8$vbd$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <gu8442-ag1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Dirk Hagemann wrote:
> Michael Str?der schrieb:
> 
>> Note that you have to bind as a real user with appropriate access 
>> rights since anonymous search is disabled in Active Directory by 
>> default.
> 
> The script will run under my logged on user with domain-admin rights - 
> so will will not have to authenticate a second time.

This is not relevant. The python-ldap module and the underlying OpenLDAP 
libs does not care about your logged on Windows user.

=> You have to explicitly bind.

Ciao, Michael.


From kumoyuki at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 10:15:40 2004
From: kumoyuki at gmail.com (David Rush)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 07:15:40 -0700
Subject: Emacs is going to die! =( [was Re: Emacs + python (Was Re:
	python is going to die! =()
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<278de0e.0409201131.57baf7f9@posting.google.com>
	<414f61bf$0$29449$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<rwJ3d.1000$g42.675@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<87hdprv3qd.fsf_-_@ion.xlipstream.com>
	<du7fz5a8tte.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<cdd4e677.0410010149.50b50324@posting.google.com>
	<du7oejm39yl.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <cdd4e677.0410050615.7a8146a2@posting.google.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
> >>>>> "David" == David Rush <kumoyuki at gmail.com> writes:
>     David> How? I'm feeling awfully let down that the appearance of
>     David> the Eclipse community does not seem to match the reality.
> 
> That happened to me too. My hope was rekindled when I tried the recent
> PyDev and saw that CDT got code compention working in C++. And some
> other things. Eclipse needs to do a lot of growing up, but at least it
> seems to *want* to grow up - unlike the grumpy old grandad that emacs
> has become.

Well, you ought to listen to yer ould grandpa, yeh might learn summat.
Emacs/XEmacs is in *really* good shape for a program of its age. We'll 
just have to see how Eclipse weathers the years. 

And my apologies for cluttering up the Python world with my Emacs rant. 
Blame groups.google; I actually didn't notice that I was in a ... ahem
... less than apropriate ng. ANybody know where I can have a good flaming
Emacs vs Eclipse row that the Eclipse people might win? I'd like someone to
convince/educate me back into using it, cause right now Eclpise is just a 
time-waster for me.

david rush


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 23:14:49 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik vaddadi)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:14:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <20041025224622.0B32.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041027031450.7291.qmail@web20425.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> 
> kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik) wrote:
> 
> > integers are used in different ways from strings.
> i may expect file
> > paths to be around 100 characters, and if i get a
> 500-character path,
> > i have no problem just because of the length. but
> if a person's age is
> > 500 where i expect it to be less than 100, then
> **definitely**
> > something's wrong.
> 
> So *you* need to do bounds checking.

do you check every assignment for bounds? can you?
overflow errors catch bugs when you dont do the
checks. 


> > as i look at my code, i rarely have an issue with
> string sizes, but if
> > an integer variable gets very large (say > 2**31
> or 2**63), it
> > generally reflects a bug in my code.
> 
> And you should check that, and not rely on a
> misfeature and a mistake. 

why do u want me to check something that the language
can do? for precisely this reason, i consider this not
to be a misfeature or a mistake.

> I don't rely on overflow errors. [...]
> I prefer to check my variables when I rely on them.

i never talked about *relying* on overflow errors to
ensure the correctness of code. it's only a mechanism
that catches bugs in some cases - & that's valuable.

-kartik


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 


From stephen at theboulets.net  Sun Oct 24 10:34:28 2004
From: stephen at theboulets.net (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:34:28 -0500
Subject: python and locales
Message-ID: <kMednflpXL_VIObcRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>

How do I set encodings in python files (say to UTF-8)?

Stephen


From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Oct  4 23:53:14 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 03:53:14 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4293.1096947506.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4293.1096947506.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <KUo8d.3033$UP1.1475@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> Ouch!  I didn't expect such harsh replies.  Thanks anyways.

That wasn't harsh.  I answered 4 of your questions.

   39. pointer to the documentation on that topic
   30. no, Python uses a different style
   28. that question doesn't make sense for Python -- variables
         only have one type
   11. don't use eval (implying that Python has such a thing)

and spent at least as much information in responding as
you did in writing the questions in the first place.

I even explained why I found your post to be problematical
and left an opportunity for you to explain why my
conjectures were wrong.

Feel free to explain why we should put a lot of effort into
replying to your email when it seems you've made no effort
in answering the questions yourself, despite seeming to be
quite capable of doing so.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From cousinstanley at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  9 11:27:07 2004
From: cousinstanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: 9 Oct 2004 15:27:07 GMT
Subject: tokenise a string
References: <86brfcq9nk.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
Message-ID: <2sqeabF1nrio1U1@uni-berlin.de>

On 2004-10-09, Matthias Teege <matthias-dated at mteege.de> wrote:
> Moin,
> ....
> So I must parse the input, build tokens and map the fieldnames. 
>
> Is there a special modul which I can use 
> or are the standard string functions adequate?
>

Matthias .... 

  You might check the  tokenize  module ....
  
      import tokenize
      
      help( tokenize )
      
  I only know of it, but have never used it myself ....      


-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona


From Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com  Fri Oct 15 06:51:42 2004
From: Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com (Ames Andreas (MPA/DF))
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:51:42 +0200
Subject: Search-Filter for LDAP (MS Active Directory)
Message-ID: <788E231C269961418F38D3E360D1652526CA47@tndefr-ws00021.tenovis.corp.lan>

Hello,

Michael Str?der wrote:

> It is possible. Been there done that for testing purposes with

sorry for being unclear.  The bug I referred to had nothing to do with
python-ldap per se (it also happens with ldapsearch).  The bug only
bites you when the returned results are sufficiently large.  I haven't
tested yet the suggested fix from
http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-devel/200211/msg00035.html
(i.e. increasing the two constants).

With smaller result sets SASL-GSSAPI works perfectly with python-ldap
client and AD server.  (BTW:  Thanks for this useful work.)


cheers,

aa


From 400440 at excite.com  Fri Oct  8 11:00:31 2004
From: 400440 at excite.com (rob)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 08:00:31 -0700
Subject: IpAddrCtrl.SetValue() problems
References: <104cc0e1.0410072324.2d9cde63@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <104cc0e1.0410080700.30010a30@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the reply.  I'll try the wxpython mailing list.

-Rob

<SNIP>


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Fri Oct 15 19:09:04 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:09:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>
	<416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<mailman.4998.1097833203.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekjz3lly.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp6fb$gvi$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<du7sm8f24h4.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp90u$s9l$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<du7fz4f209r.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <ckplag$99o$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> pisze:

>    Jarek> software. But as you may have read in GNU Public License,
>    Jarek> if you link to non-free library, you must give special
>    Jarek> permission in your license statement (as in the case of Psi
>    Jarek> Jabber client). Since Eric3 is GPL-ed
> 
> I don't think GPL allows linking with non-free stuff at all. Not even
> with special permissions. If it does, it's not GPL but some other,
> GPL-like license.

No, it's perfectly legal.

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCGPLIncompatibleLibs

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 21 06:59:43 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 06:59:43 -0400
Subject: how to reading binary data...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5252.1098346079.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <20041021070520.2594.qmail@webmail25.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.5252.1098346079.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl84q6$8ea$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

marcos at nordesia.org wrote:
> SIGNIFICANCE = [0,1,2,3]  # this list is useful when reading bigendian longs
> #SIGNIFICANCE = [3,2,1,0] # this list is useful when reading littleendian
> longs
> 
> def str2long(s):
> 	"""Returns a long, using the first four byte of a string"""
> 	l = 0L # the long we will get
> 	for pos in SIGNIFICANCE: # get each byte in the order specified by the
> significance list
> 		if pos < len(s):
> 			c = s[pos]
> 		else:	# if we take a byte that is not in byte string (this happens at
> the end of file when file length is not multiple of 4.
> 			c = chr(0)
> 
> 		l*=0x100	# shift left 8 bits
> 		l+=ord(c)	# add the readed byte at the LSB.
> 
> 	return l

Ditch this!  It would be much easier, faster,
more maintainable to use the struct module:

    struct.unpack('<l', four_byte_string)

This returns an integer from little-endian data, while
using >l assumes big-endian data.

-Peter


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 08:15:01 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 05:15:01 -0700
Subject: convert string to list
In-Reply-To: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
References: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
Message-ID: <1097669701.12092.62.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 14:03 +0200, Jochen Hub wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am a real beginner in Python and I was wondering if there is a way to 
> convert a string (which contains a list) to a "real" list.
> 
> I need this since I would like to give a list as an argument to my 
> Python script from the bash:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> import sys
> argument1 = sys.argv[1]
> thelist = ???(argument1)
> 
> and then call the script from the bash like this
> 
> thescript.py ["A","B","C"]

You can use eval for this.  Better, you could simply pass your list as a
series of arguments from bash:

#!/bin/bash
myscript.py A B C


#!/usr/bin/python
import sys
thelist = sys.argv[1:]

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Tue Oct 19 15:47:51 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:47:51 +0300
Subject: Help needed: cryptic perl regular expression in python syntax, 
 Ugly solution
In-Reply-To: <slrncna2rg.e49.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <bD7dd.1707$i81.1401@read3.inet.fi>
	<slrncna2rg.e49.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <41756F67.1060307@wlanmail.com>

Thanks,

I managed to solve my problem with code like this:
 >>> line = '   s^\\?AAA\\?01^BBB^g; #Comment '
 >>> r1 = '(^\\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\\\\\?\\\\??'
 >>> key = "AAA\?01"
 >>> r2 = '\\\\??)\\3(.*?)\\3(.*)'
 >>> r = r1 + re.escape(key) + r2
 >>> re.compile(r).findall(line)
[('   ', 's', '^', '\\?AAA\\?01', 'BBB', 'g; #Comment ')]

but what an ugly piece of code...

I was hoping to do without excess backslashes with re.escape(),
but no avail since group item '\3' gets misquoted (among other things):

 >>> r2 = "\??)\3(.*?)\3(.*)/)"
 >>> re.escape(r2)
'\\\\\\?\\?\\)\\\x03\\(\\.\\*\\?\\)\\\x03\\(\\.\\*\\)\\/\\)'


-pekka-



Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 2004-10-19, pekka niiranen schreef <pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com>:
> 
>>Hi there,
>>
>>I have perl script that uses dynamically
>>constructed regular in this way:
>>
>>------perl code starts ----
>>$result "";
>>$key = AAA\?01;
>>$key = quotemeta $key;
>>$line = "   s^\?AAA\?01^BBB^g; #Comment "
>>if ($line =~ /(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\?\??$key\??)\3(.*?)\3(.*)/) {
>>	$result = $5;
>>
>># $result should be "BBB"
>># \3 gets the same value as returned by (.)
>># which is in this example ^. So we are searching
>># parameter limited by first two ^-signs
>># and returning the one limited byt the second
>># and third ^-sign. Note that using \3 in regular
>># expression enables other constants used than ^ -sign.
>>
>>------perl code stops ----
>>
>>How can I construct equivalent python regural expression ?
>>
>>I have tested with constant regular expression like this:
>>
>>
>>>>>line = '   s^\\?AAA\\?01^BBB^g; #Comment '
>>>>>r1 = "(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\\\\?\\\??AAA\\\\\?01)"
>>>>>re.compile(r1).findall(line)
>>
>>[('   ', 's', '^', '\\?AAA\\?01')]
>>
>>Which is fine, but is there a way to join 3 raw strings
>>together into another raw strings? like:
>>
>>r1 = r'''(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\?\??'''
>>r2 = r'''\\?\??)\3(.*?)\3(.*)'''
>>p1 = r1 + key + r2 # p1 should remain raw string too
>>
> 
> 
> If I understand correctly there are no raw strings, just raw string
> literals. The re.compile uses just a normal string.
> 
> raw string literal just make it easier to form a strings that are
> typically used for regular expressions but the strings themselves
> are just ordinary strings.
> 
> 
>>>>s1="\\b"
>>>>s2=r"\b"
>>>>s1==s2
> 
> 1
> 
>>>>s1
> 
> '\\b'
> 
>>>>s2
> 
> '\\b'
> 
>>>>print s1
> 
> \b
> 
>>>>print s2
> 
> \b
> 
> 


From s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au  Fri Oct  1 02:29:37 2004
From: s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au (Shufen)
Date: 30 Sep 2004 23:29:37 -0700
Subject: How can I code to get more than One value from checkbox?
References: <d3502feb.0409301103.2a39e53a@posting.google.com>
	<6J07d.1812$gk.1795@okepread01>
Message-ID: <d3502feb.0409302229.46b34efc@posting.google.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<6J07d.1812$gk.1795 at okepread01>...
 
> I think you're confusing checkboxes and radio buttons.
> 
> If you have ten different boxes that can be checked, each will usually 
> have a different name, so you can test them with data.getfirst("box1"), 
> data.getfirst("box2"), and so on.
> 
> While it's true that you can have several checkbox elements with the 
> same name, and that the CGI interface will give you a list of such 
> values, there's absolutely no need to do so and, as you have discovered, 
> it's positively unhelpful in most cases.
> 
> With radio buttons, you give each member of the set the same name in 
> your HTML and the browser submits the value of only the one that's been 
> checked (if one has).
> 
> regards
>   Steve

Hi Steve,

I did that with reference to this:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/node404.html

I used checkboxes because I wanna the user to be able to select one or
more of the checkboxes, these checkboxes have the same "name" - qtype
and different "value". For radiobuttons, the user can only choose one
of the given radiobuttons which is not what I want. Sorry, I think I
didn't make myself clear enough.


The following is my script:

###############################################################################
#!/usr/bin/env python
#Created on: 30/09/04
#Help from Lee Harr and Danny Yoo - Python Tutor

import sys, os
import cgi
import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
import pg

def form():
    print """<form method="post" action="">
             <p>
             <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="all" checked />
             All<br />
             <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="project" />
             Project<br />
             <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="date_string" />
             Date<br />
             <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="blame" />
             Blame<br />
             <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="notes" />
             Notes<br /></p>

             <p>Search by shot number:<br>
             <input type=text name="qtext" value="" />
             <input type="submit" value="SEARCH" />&nbsp;
             <input type="reset" value="RESET" /><br />
             </form>"""

print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
print "<head><title>Searching by using Shot
Number</title></head><body>"

if __name__ == "__main__":
    
    data = cgi.FieldStorage()

    if data:
        qtype = data.getfirst('qtype')
        qtext = data.getfirst('qtext','')

        for qtype in data.getlist('qtype'):
            print "You typed in Shot Number:", qtext

            #Will take care of the security problem later...
            username = os.environ.get('USER')
            if username == None:
                username = 'apache'

            #Now, we can get to the database...
            db = pg.connect("moncdata", user=username, passwd=None)

            #This is the part that I'm not sure of...please help...
            query = "select %(qtype)s from shot_descriptions where
shot_number=%(qtext)s", qtype, qtext
            qresult = db.query(query)

            listOfResults = qresult.dictresult()

            print """<p>Example of pulling the list of dictionary
results apart.</p>"""
            for record in listOfResults:
                print "<p><table>"
                for k in record.keys():
                    print '<tr>'
                    print '<td>key:</td> <td>', k, '</td>'
                    print '<td>value:</td><td>', record[k], '</td>'
                    print '</tr>'
                print '</table></p>'

            db.close()

        #Somehow, this part didn't work too, when I didn't input a
value
        #it doesn't show this msg. Please help me on this part too.
Thks.
        else:
            print "You have no enter a shot number!"
            print "Please type a in shot number in order to perform a
search!"

    else:
        form()


print "</body></html>"
    
###############################################################################

Thank you in advance for any help.

Shufen


From stygian at tesco.net  Thu Oct 28 14:36:12 2004
From: stygian at tesco.net (Glen)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:36:12 +0100
Subject: Newbie trying to install pygsear
Message-ID: <1098988448.4303.9.camel@localhost>

I'm quite new to both Python and Linux (Mandrake 10.0)
Python and pygame are both installed (examples run fine), but I get the
following error when trying to install pygsear

[root at localhost pygsear-0.53]# python setup.py install
running install
error: invalid Python installation: unable to open
/usr/lib/python2.3/config/Makefile (No such file or directory)

There is no config folder and I can't locate Makefile in the python2.3
folder.
Just wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction for where
I should be looking, or should I download and install the newest version
of python as this is 2.3.3 installed from the Mandrake installation
disks.
Glen




From jmeile at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 27 06:53:15 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:53:15 +0200
Subject: Win32+Zope+Python+Databases: What are my options?
In-Reply-To: <jZxfd.1119$mm6.1114@amstwist00>
References: <jZxfd.1119$mm6.1114@amstwist00>
Message-ID: <417F7E1B.5030605@hotmail.com>

Hi Carl,

> Does anybody know if it is possible to access databases from Zope (which is
> written in Python) using COM and ADO? 
I know there are different DAs for zope; however, I don't know if any of 
them uses COM or ADO. You could search/ask on:
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-db
which is the official zope list for relational database connectivity.

You could also take a look at:
http://zope.org/Products/external_access
and see if you find some DA that do this.

Regards,
Josef


From dd55 at cornell.edu  Fri Oct  8 16:08:07 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:08:07 -0400
Subject: module name not recognized
Message-ID: <ck6s3u$bp4$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

I have built two basic modules using distutils. One of them installs fine,
but the other, I can't import modules from it. I've been pouring over the
code and I cant find the problem. 

I know the file has been copied to site-packages/mypackage, but I cant do

from mypackage import mymodule

Could I get suggestions as to why a module would be installed but not
registered?

Thanks,
Darren


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 14 10:53:46 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:53:46 +0200
Subject: question on list comprehensions
References: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <ckm3pn$li0$1@sea.gmane.org>

Darren Dale wrote:

> I need to replace the following loop with a list comprehension:
>
> res=[0]
> for i in arange(10000):
>     res[0]=res[0]+i

why?

</F> 





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 15:40:11 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:40:11 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aJt8d.3299$M05.285@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6qcq.kcu4qi1qojaksN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<_sB8d.3545$M05.1351@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl7k7p.1a37gv1o1klclN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<JGW8d.7631$M05.6903@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1gl97ps.endfhf1dfa6l0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
   ...
> Again, my viewpoint is completely detached from any
> practical experience.

In a sense so is mine, 'cuz APL wasn't really about user code fooling
with internals -- so we never had to face this problem... we did (a lot
of) cool _computation_, mostly though not exclusively numeric in nature,
period... the CS types in IBM Research sort of snubbed APL in favour of
Rexx and other pursuits (I sort of had a foot in both camps, but that's
a whole 'nother story... I got by on the basis of CSists looking at me
as a good numeric analyst who happened to get CS more than usual, and
the numeric guys looking at me as a great CSer without the usual disdain
for numerics, and slalomed my way for a decade without anybody ever
noticing I wasn't in IBM Research class in _either_ CS or numerics!-).


> > So would Python plus a rebinding of __builtins__.hex to the above class
> > X.  So?  What's your point?
> 
> That the word 'horror' means something different for you
> than for me.

Apparently.  A feature that _can_ be misused is no horror -- _every_
language has quite a few.


> > Yeah, looks like a cool idea, but Ruby experts tell me it's never really
> > practically useful... much like, say, double-leading-underscores names
> > in Python classes -- neat idea, but not used in best practice anyway.
> 
> Hmm.  I'll bear that in mind.
> 
> One of the things I liked about C++ was constness of
> objects.  And one of the things I didn't like was all
> the extra work needed to make a library const safe.

Yeah, sigh, ditto here, in theory -- then I ended up as the software
consultant for 200+ good programmers new to C++ and saw first-hand what
nightmare it was sometimes to make stuff const-correct and how little in
fact it bought you, so I got rather disillusioned about it.


> I've at times wanted something like that in Python, as
> when I have one attribute which depends on the data in
> another.  Were one to be changed without the other
> there would be an integrity problem.  But I know the
> right Python way to solve that problem if the "we're
> all adults here" solution isn't enough.

Bully for you -- I don't.  I wish I could set a callback on a given
object getting modified or a given name getting rebound - but I can't,
not with enough generality and little-enough black magic to be usable in
production code.


> > Mine too (just started my 50th year -- it's 23 minutes after the end of
> > my 49th b'day, local time), that's part of why google's SO useful;-).
> 
> Buon Compleanno!
> 
> (Or should I say  ?Buon Compleanno! as you wish Italian to be :)

That depends on whether you like Italy as a _potential_ (what Italy
COULD be at its best) or as an actual place (how it REALLY is).  Knowing
you for a sensible guy, I suspect it's the former (as an actual place
it's often enough hard to accept even for someone native born...), so
the delightful reverse-bang-at-start fantasy may be more appropriate!-)


Alex


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Mon Oct 11 05:42:43 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:42:43 +0200
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
In-Reply-To: <8f17f4bc.0410091859.39a6c028@posting.google.com>
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4538.1097192656.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8f17f4bc.0410080849.51fbdcfa@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62@posting.google.com>
	<a7a67196.0410082348.36fd45a@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410091859.39a6c028@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416a53cd$0$16541$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Ali wrote:
> klappnase at web.de (klappnase) wrote in message news:<a7a67196.0410082348.36fd45a at posting.google.com>...
> 
>>alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali) wrote in message news:<8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62 at posting.google.com>...
>>
>>>>>You can set the text widget to be "disabled" to
>>>>>keep the user from changing the contents.
>>>
>>>How? I tryed putting diabled in there and disabled=yes and
>>>disabled='yes'. None of them worked :(
>>
>>Try state="disabled"
>>
>>Michael
> 
> 
> I tryed that and it stoped showing the text I want it to show :(

Setting state='disabled' does not only prevent the user from editing the text, 
but also prevents *you* from modifying the text via the insert or delete 
methods. So whenever you want to insert or delete lines in the text, you must 
configure its state to 'normal' before, do the modification, then set back its 
state to 'disabled'

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct  7 23:46:18 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:46:18 -0700
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <lNm9d.872$lp6.537@okepread01>
References: <mailman.4522.1097173984.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<lNm9d.872$lp6.537@okepread01>
Message-ID: <20041007204539.ED55.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> If you want to use file primitives to read the value back, just create 
> another one:
> 
> inpt = StringIO.StringIO(firstStringIO.getvalue())
> 
> then you can read the printed output from inpt just like a file.

Or even:

 firstStringIO.seek(0)

 - Josiah



From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 20 05:07:44 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 02:07:44 -0700
Subject: Problem with logging module
References: <78406811.0410130851.5cf73a75@posting.google.com>
	<ckjpbd$o0b$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<78406811.0410140401.4d466185@posting.google.com>
	<cklqac$3il$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<78406811.0410150537.5173afd0@posting.google.com>
	<ckoqcc$gp0$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410200107.5b4b9cb9@posting.google.com>

[Steve]
>> if not logger.handler(dir + '/' + name + '.log'):
[Diez]
> There is the (unfortunately undocumented) property "handlers" on a Logger
> insnstance that you can use:

The handlers property is not documented because it is not normally
meant to be used by clients of the logging package. Since handlers can
include third party handlers, the answer to 'what is an existing
handler?' is not in general known to the logging package. This is why
something like the functionality suggested by Steve is not provided in
the box.

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From rakis at gmpexpress.net  Tue Oct  5 19:33:32 2004
From: rakis at gmpexpress.net (Tom Cocagne)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:33:32 -0400
Subject: compiling using native compiler
References: <95650bb5.0410050819.2f34f323@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10m6c2frt1muqad@corp.supernews.com>

 I?was?in?a?similar?position?the?other?day?and?wound?up?needing?to?use
'smake' instead of 'make'. I know very little about SGI systems but after
reading the platform-specific notes in the readme and using 'smake', it all
worked for me.

?Tom

SS wrote:

> When I try to compile python 2.3.4 using SGI's native compiler
> ./configure --without-gcc
> followed by
> make
> 
> I get error
> make
>          c++   -o python \
>                         Modules/python.o \
>                         libpython2.3.a -ldl  -lpthread -lmpc   -lm
> ld32: WARNING 84 : /usr/lib32/libdl.so is not used for resolving any
> symbol.
> ld32: FATAL   9  : I/O error (-lmpc): No such file or directory
> collect2: ld returned 32 exit status
> *** Error code 1 (bu21)
> 
> but I see it in /usr/lib
> 
> ls -l /usr/lib/mpc
> -rwxrwxr-x    1 root     sys       598996 May 20 17:10 /usr/lib/mpc



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Oct 16 21:49:03 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:49:03 -0500
Subject: viewing pydoc output in FireFox
In-Reply-To: <cksa8j$20d$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cks809$til$1@sea.gmane.org> <20041016225440.GA2588@unpythonic.net>
	<cksa8j$20d$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20041017014901.GB2588@unpythonic.net>

I don't know.  My mozilla (firefox 0.9.3 on linux) displays ".py" files
from the file: URLs as text without any special configuration.

Here's a patch to pydoc to serve .py source files over http as
text/plain.  It should be fairly easy to apply manually if you don't
have a unix-style "patch" program on your windows machine (just remove
the lines marked with "-" and add the ones marked with "+", at around
the line numbers given in the '@@" line).

I tested it minimally (again, on my linux machine with firefox 0.9.3)
and it works nicely.  Modules and packages display their source code,
and non-.py files are no longer linked.  instead you see text like
    /usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload/_tkinter.so (Shared module)

Please feel free to use these changes under the terms of the python
license.

--- /usr/lib/python2.3/pydoc.py	2004-05-07 09:52:46.000000000 -0500
+++ ./pydoc.py	2004-10-16 20:38:59.618007763 -0500
@@ -515,11 +515,10 @@
         head = '<big><big><strong>%s</strong></big></big>' % linkedname
         try:
             path = inspect.getabsfile(object)
-            url = path
-            if sys.platform == 'win32':
-                import nturl2path
-                url = nturl2path.pathname2url(path)
-            filelink = '<a href="file:%s">%s</a>' % (url, path)
+            if not path.endswith(".py"):
+                filelink = "%s (Shared module)" % path
+            else:
+                filelink = '<a href="/%s.txt">%s</a>' % (".".join(parts), path)
         except TypeError:
             filelink = '(built-in)'
         info = []
@@ -1812,8 +1811,28 @@
                 self.wfile.write(html.page(title, contents))
             except IOError: pass
 
+        def send_text(self, contents):
+            try:
+                self.send_response(200)
+                self.send_header('Content-Type', 'text/plain')
+                self.end_headers()
+                self.wfile.write(contents)
+            except IOError: pass
+
         def do_GET(self):
             path = self.path
+            if path.endswith(".txt"):
+                path = path[:-4]
+                if path[:1] == '/': path = path[1:]
+                try:
+                    obj = locate(path, forceload=1)
+                except ErrorDuringImport, value:
+                    self.send_document(path, html.escape(str(value)))
+                    return
+                f = inspect.getabsfile(obj)
+                    
+                self.send_text(open(f).read())
+                return
             if path[-5:] == '.html': path = path[:-5]
             if path[:1] == '/': path = path[1:]
             if path and path != '.':
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From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct 26 02:29:11 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:29:11 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <X8mfd.2724$kM.1512@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

kartik wrote:
> i suggest u base your comments on real code, rather than reasoning in
> an abstract manner from your ivory tower.

My experience, based on 10+ years of making a living as a
professional programmer, says that you are wrong and the
comments made by others has been spot on.

Real code?  Here's one used for generating the canonical
SMILES representation of a chemical compound.  It comes
from the FROWNS package.

             try:
                 val = 1
                 for offset, bondtype in offsets[index]:
                     val *= symclasses[offset] * bondtype
             except OverflowError:
                 # Hmm, how often does this occur?
                 val = 1L
                 for offset, bondtype in offsets[index]:
                     val *= symclasses[offset] * bondtype


The algorithm uses the fundamental theorem of arithmetic
as part of computing a unique characteristic value for
every atom in the molecule, up to symmetry.

It's an iterative algorithm, and the new value for
a given atom is the product of the old values of its
neighbor atoms in the graph:

    V'(atom1) = V(atom1.neighbor[0]) * V(atom1.neighbor[1]) * ...

In very rare cases this can overflow 32 bits.  Rare
enough that it's faster to do everything using 32 bit
numbers and just redo the full calculation if there's
an overflow.

Because Python now no longer gives this overflow error,
we have the advantage of both performance and simplified
code.

Relatively speaking, 2**31 is tiny.  My little laptop
can count that high in Python in about 7 minutes, and
my hard drive has about 2**35 bits of space.  I deal
with single files bigger than 2**32 bits.

Why then should I have to put in all sorts of workarounds
into *my* code because *you* don't know how to write
good code, useful test cases, and appropriate internal
sanity checks?

Your examples, btw, are hypothetical.  Having an
OverflowException at 2**31 doesn't fix your 500 year
old person problem and you'll have an IndexError / KeyError
well before you reach that limit, assuming your string /
dictionary doesn't have that much data.

Why not give some example of real code that shows
1) that giving an OverflowError is the right behaviour
(excluding talking to hardware or other system that
requires a fixed size number), 2) that there is a
fixed number N that is always appropriate, and 3)
that value is < sys.maxint.

For bonus points, use proper spelling and capitalization.


  				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Oct 25 14:34:35 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:34:35 -0500
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <417D473B.5040708@colorstudy.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
>>Why don't you just GPL the whole lot? Headache over, and a
>>warm fuzzy feeling in its place.
> 
> 
> I haven't said I won't. :) That said, providing a mechanism for
> people to get the source does impose some overhead and cost.
> And then there's the time/cost associated with supporting the
> GPL'd source code _after_ you've provided somebody with it.

You don't have to provide any mechanism, nor provide any support.  If 
you are giving them .pyc files, just include the .py files as well.  You 
don't even have to GPL your code, you just have to abide by the GPL 
(i.e., provide source); you could distribute your code under any 
GPL-compatible license, such as a BSD-style license.

All the GPL asks is that you distribute the source with the program, and 
allow that source to be modified and redistributed.  Anything less is 
against the spirit of the GPL, and as such against the spirit that the 
original author had in mind when releasing that GPL code; you can try to 
get around it, but even if it's legal it's not right.  And it's probably 
not legal, since intent *does* matter.  If you don't think the GPL is 
really the intent of the original author, then contact them; they may 
very well be willing to relicense the code.

But as long as you don't mind people seeing, redistributing, and 
modifying your source, then the GPL is not a problem, just a few extra 
kilobytes in your distribution.  Well, you are also supposed to note 
somewhere that the source is available under the GPL -- so an extra line 
in Help>About (or something like that) should be included.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Fri Oct 29 14:06:05 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:06:05 +0200
Subject: Regex speed
Message-ID: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hello,

I recently ported a simple utility script to analyze a data file from
Perl to Python that uses regex substitutions, not more complex than

re1 = re.compile(r"\s*<.*>\s*")
re2 = re.compile(r".*\((.*)\).*")
re3 = re.compile(r'^"(.*)"$')

When run without these regex substitutions, the scripts' speed is nearly
equal. However, with the regexes applied, the Python version's running
time is five times or more of the Perl version's.

So my question is: Why is the re module implemented in pure Python?
Isn't it possible to integrate it into the core or rewrite it in C?

--or--

Is there a Python interface for the PCRE library out there?

Thanks

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From luismg at gmx.net  Sun Oct 10 14:07:07 2004
From: luismg at gmx.net (Neuruss)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 11:07:07 -0700
Subject: EVIL AMERICAN GOVT (aka FBI) is full of SADISTS and PERVERTS
References: <11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <278de0e.0410101007.48dbb21e@posting.google.com>

After reading carefully this message, I came to the conclusion that it
is a little bit off topic.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 31 17:19:26 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 00:19:26 +0200
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41852310.1271953001@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1gmjq2s.1xs5xzp1bj3kcbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:

> Not sure if I got filtered out replying to myself, what with an accidental
> dupe and all the incremental changes and corrections ;-/ Anyway, I guess
> you could say there's a "while" implicit in iter(f, sentinel) that you
> _can_ do within a list comprehension ;-)

Yep, excellent suggestion, tx.  I went with the logarithm suggestion,
but in other cases the two-arguments iter could surely be the best way
to hide a 'while callable() != sentinel:' in a list comprehension!-)


Alex


From lbates at syscononline.com  Thu Oct 21 11:32:56 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:32:56 -0500
Subject: Matrix (list-in-list), how to get a column?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5261.1098371947.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5261.1098371947.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rPqdnXDwTLw0S-rcRVn-jA@comcast.com>

Avid Andersson wrote:
> Good afternoon,
> 
> I have some data that looks like this:
> data = [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]]
> 
> I want to send columns 1 and 2 to a function
> as two variables, say "plot(col1,col2)".
> 
> I can get a row by data[r], but how do I get a
> column? data[:][c] would have been my guess,
> but that returns the same list as data[r].
> 
> I can solve this with two additional lists and
> a for loop, but that seems like an ugly hack.
> Five additional lines just seems clumsy.  :-)
> 
> Is there a more elegant solution than this?
> 
> col1 = []
> col2 = []
> for i in range(len(data)):
>   col1 += [a[i][0]]
>   col2 += [a[i][1]]
> 
> 
> /Arvid Andersson
> 

Try something like:

coldata=[[x[0] for x in data], [x[1] for x in data]]
plot(*coldata)

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 11 04:29:31 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:29:31 GMT
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2sucjlF1p5plpU1@uni-berlin.de> <416a09c4.4267802054@news.oz.net>
	<mailman.4683.1097470731.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416a4256.4282283728@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:58:44 +1100, Andrew Durdin <adurdin at gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:51:28 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>> why is class apparently not legal as a simple statement terminated by ';' ?
>> (I wanted to attempt an alternate one-liner ;-)
>> 
>>  >>> class Record:pass; rec=Record()
>>  ...
>>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in Record
>>  NameError: name 'Record' is not defined
>
>This is the equivalent of:
>
>class Record:
>    pass
>    rec = Record()
D'oh ;-/
Not thinking.
>
>That is, the whole line after the : is interpreted as the body of the
>class. The name Record is not defined within its body, hence the
>NameError.
>
>Another [sort-of related] question: why does the following not produce
>a NameError for "foo"?
>
>def foo(): print foo
>foo()
the foo in the print line isn't looked for until foo is executing,
by which time foo is bound. In contrast to the body of the class definition,
which executes right away to create the contents of the class dict etc.,
so there the class name is not yet bound.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct  3 20:59:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:59:07 -0400
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <a321m0ptb8j9rfq01mrd5pn9vg791njquf@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.4227.1096839829.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fu-dnW0ayarAGf3cRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
	<a321m0ptb8j9rfq01mrd5pn9vg791njquf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <opmdnfljLrvGPf3cRVn-qQ@powergate.ca>

Andrea Griffini wrote:
> The only thing that scares me a bit about using python
> is that industrial control is (at least for the part
> I'm seeing for my job) terribly closed-source.
> I see for example that its very very common to use
> even hardware locks for the software.

That's true, and sadly so.  It's also one of the things
which Cameron and I and others are keen to see change,
and which change we believe would have a significant
and positive impact on the industry in a variety of ways.

Having companies always rewrite their own copy of something
from scratch is a stupid, stupid way to do business, when
their business is not supposed to be writing drivers for
obscure pieces of hardware.

Having those companies wake up and smell the coffee --
which in this case is their competition, companies like
mine, which are accelerating many times over their
productivity by using modern tools and techniques
and by *sharing* non-core stuff -- is one of the goals
we've been talking about here.

> I'm not my boss, and could be hard to explain that it's
> not a problem using an interpreted language that is
> easily decompilable and using modules with licenses
> that are basically nonsense in this context.

This sort of thing is ultimately not an issue with
Python per se, or is only slightly more an issue with
Python than with some other languages.  I've yet to
see a library that couldn't be used in spite of its
supposed hardware or software copy protection.  Better
to try to find reasons for customers to keep paying
you (support, access to improvements) than to worry
that you might have missed some revenue from a few
that are unethical crooks...

> To a very specific question I was answered here that
> the best thing to do before using e.g. pygame in a
> closed source product is consulting a lawyer; and
> that obtaining a clear answer would have been a sign
> that the consulted lawyer isn't a good one.

It's an answer, and in some ways a good one, but in
other ways it passes the buck to someone who is in the
business of telling people what they already know and
fear is true: there are no guarantees, nothing you can
do can actually *prevent* you from getting sued, and
by the way please pay my last invoice for $400/hour...

I'd say the "best thing" to do would be to start by
collecting the various licenses involved and actually
looking them over.  I haven't done that with PyGame,
but unless it includes GPL stuff, there's a decent
chance that there's no real impediment to using it
in a closed source product, except perhaps your guilt
at attempting to profit from the hard work of many
others without even a token attempt to contribute
something back to the community. ;-)

-Peter


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Oct  6 17:15:09 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:15:09 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <20041006081125.ED03.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <mailman.4358.1096995671.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfy8ikb88x.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<20041006081125.ED03.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <CDF4162E-17DC-11D9-8DFA-000A95909800@cern.ch>


On 6 Oct 2004, at 17:12, Josiah Carlson wrote:

>
> On 06 Oct 2004 09:45:02 +0200
> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>
>>
>> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:
>>
>>> On the other hand, no one in the Python world really describes
>>> instance.method() as passing a message to 'instance' with the value 
>>> of
>>> 'method'.
>>
>> This is not true.
>>
>> Proof by counterexample:  I sometimes do.
>
> All right, then I will make the claim that it is not Pythonic to do so,
> because I have never heard Guido do such a thing.

Aaaah, proof by ignorance: I am not aware of it, therefore it isn't so. 
:-)

BTW, I _really_ meant the :-) in the previous post. There is really no 
(serious) point in taking this any further, is there ?



From darren at coolpink.net  Tue Oct  5 00:00:36 2004
From: darren at coolpink.net (darren at coolpink.net)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 04:00:36 -0000
Subject: ANN: PyOpenOffice 0.21 released
Message-ID: <20041005040036.14832.qmail@ws2.coolpink.net>

Sorry, but I am out of the office on Monday 27th September until Monday 11th October 2004.

I will respond to your e-mail when I return

If you need technical support please contact simonh at coolpink.net or mazen at coolpink.net

For any other enquiries please call the office on (0113) 272 3191 

Thanks for your e-mail.




From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 20:18:07 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 17:18:07 -0700
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0410181618.3bcc2a3d@posting.google.com>

"Riccardo Rossi" <riccardo.rorssi76 at email.it> wrote in message news:<OkRcd.157598$35.7725273 at news4.tin.it>...
> Hi all!
> 
> How does Python pass arguments to a function? By value or by reference?

If you're familiar with C, think of it this way

/* Python function

   def foo(arg1, arg2):
      localA = arg1
      localB = bar(arg2)
      # ...
          
*/
object *foo(object *arg1, object *arg2) {
   object *localA = arg1;
   object *localB = bar(arg2);
   /* ... */  
}


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct 29 13:50:59 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:50:59 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <slrnco49pr.1ea.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>
	<F_9gd.4865$kM.2575@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<slrnco49pr.1ea.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <7qvgd.10923$KJ6.6639@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> The way I see myself using constrains, would mean I need them on
> a name, not on an object.

Then you'll have to use the approach Bengt Richter used
with his LimitedIntSpace solution, posted ealier in this thread.
Variable names are just references.  Only attribute names will
do what you want in Python.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 18 20:21:08 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:21:08 -0500
Subject: bz2 module
In-Reply-To: <cl18e4$ma5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cl18e4$ma5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20041019002108.GB26950@unpythonic.net>

Is it possible that you've fallen for the common pitfall
"I named my test program xxx.py, and module xxx doesn't work"?

If your program is called bz2.py, then rename it, and remove bz2.pyc.
Now things may work better.

Jeff
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From olli at haluter.fromme.com  Wed Oct 27 08:19:30 2004
From: olli at haluter.fromme.com (Oliver Fromme)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 12:19:30 GMT
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5321.1098456297.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u45bhF263o38U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5430.1098718895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u74k3F277sd4U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<417ec5c5$0$30592$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <2u9i2iF28pimgU3@uni-berlin.de>

Christophe Cavalaria <chris.cavalaria at free.fr> wrote:
 > Oliver Fromme wrote:
 > > The appropriate type checking is done at compile time.  That
 > > is, if your program calls sort with two lists of different
 > > type (e.g. a list of strings and a list of ints), then the
 > > compiler will detect that and report an error.
 > 
 > This must be a bad example because I expect to be able to sort a list of
 > integers and a list of strings with the same sort function.

Uhm, I'm sorry, please forget the second sentence in my
above paragraph.  I had my mind somewhere else.  :-)

You _can_ use the function to sort a list of strings as
well as a list of ints.  But you can't mix it in a way
that, at some point, a string is compared with an int.

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Konrad-Celtis-Str. 72, 81369 Munich, Germany

``All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream.''
(E. A. Poe)


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct 26 00:33:24 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 04:33:24 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-54474F.18411025102004@localhost>
	<20041026024802.GA3581@unpythonic.net>
	<mailman.5477.1098760532.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Edkfd.18473$SW3.6071@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <417dd394$0$71146$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-26, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> Come on, the answer should clearly have been seven. Don't try your trick 
> with ne, buddy. I know octal is the only true number system.

Ah, but split octal or, uh, unsplit octal?

  377 377  vs.  177777

That is the real question. 

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm sitting on my
                                  at               SPEED QUEEN... To me,
                               visi.com            it's ENJOYABLE... I'm
                                                   WARM... I'm VIBRATORY...


From alberto.mantovaniNOSPAM at bologna.marelli.it  Thu Oct  7 04:35:07 2004
From: alberto.mantovaniNOSPAM at bologna.marelli.it (Alberto)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:35:07 GMT
Subject: Matlab import
Message-ID: <4164fec6.5798796@news.marelli.it>

Dear all,
often I recived data in matlab format (.mat) I'd like to process these
data in python environment. Are there some libreries to import .mat
format in python ?

thanks 
Alberto


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct 28 04:19:41 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:19:41 +0200
Subject: how come .insert() don't work
References: <41801753$0$62043$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<41801852$0$189$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<41803447$0$41713$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<qnkacu7qzbh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<4180a179$0$76514$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <clqa1l$jr0$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Bennie wrote:

> self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.tekst_in('p'))

Here you are setting the command parameter to the result of the
self.tekst_in() call which is always None. Change that to

self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.insert_para)

and add a method to your App class that takes only the self parameter:

def insert_para(self):
    self.tekst_in("p")
 
That way insert_para() will be invoked when you click the menu command.
Alternately you can use lambda to the same effect:

self.html.add_command(label="p", command=lambda: self.tekst_in("p"))

but I think the approach outlined above is cleaner.

Peter   







From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Tue Oct 12 09:08:46 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:08:46 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com><ck3ls6$62e$1@panix1.panix.com><9fc58c06.0410111225.5e6a1662@posting.google.com><1pDad.22529$5O5.5713@news-server.bigpond.net.au><416b9eed$0$11828$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<mailman.4742.1097573758.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416bd75f$0$10909$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>

"Richie Hindle" <richie at entrian.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:mailman.4742.1097573758.5135.python-list at python.org...
> 
> [Nicolas, arguing for a free-threading Python]
> > compare IO intensive (especially network IO) programs, the multi-threaded
> > program wins.
> 
> The GIL is released during network IO.  Multithreaded network-bound
> Python programs can take full advantage of multiple CPUs already.
> 
> (You may already know this and I'm missing a point somewhere, but it's
> worth repeating for the benefit of those that don't know.)

Yeah I know this. My point was that when benchmarking single-threaded programs vs multithreaded ones, you have to choose the kind of program you use : CPU-intensive vs IO-intensive. On a single CPU machine, CPU-intensive program will always run better in a single-threaded model. But of course, if you have 2 procs and a nice threading model, you can even do 2 CPU-intensive tasks simultaneously, which Python cannot do if I've understood everything so far.

Regards,

Nicolas


From junkmail at chipworks.net  Wed Oct  6 21:01:22 2004
From: junkmail at chipworks.net (Mike Monaghan)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 18:01:22 -0700
Subject: telnetlib close not closing sockets
References: <ab19b1e4.0409221437.573b3018@posting.google.com>
	<nwn4d.19601$pA.1328640@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ab19b1e4.0409231130.6d1e1b7e@posting.google.com>
	<okG4d.28703$bL1.1119138@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <ab19b1e4.0410061701.177ac5fb@posting.google.com>

Yannick,

Fortunately I'm not using the Microsoft Telnet server.  I'm using an
application server called mvBase.  I've had to filter some control
codes since mv loves to insert them.  It especially loves NUL and STX
but fortunately it was easily filtered on the server side.  My
application is working great now, but there's still one strange issue.
 If I run it from Windows scheduler it doesn't always complete.  It
picks a very random place to hang.  If I start it in a command prompt
it runs flawlessly.  I'm running the scheduler as an admin and my test
account is also an admin.  This is required since I'm restarting
services.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike

"Yannick Turgeon" <nobody at nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<okG4d.28703$bL1.1119138 at news20.bellglobal.com>...
> Mike,
> 
> Concerning you "expect()" problem (which is very similar to read_until())
> Probably that it's working for 1, 2, 3 commands... but after a couple more
> it's no more working? Is that your situation? I'll tell you a terrible
> secret: Window's telnet is not sending you back only your command result.
> 
> You should read this post before working any harder:
> http://groups.google.ca/groups?selm=RUSQc.43590%24Jq2.1867410%40news20.bellg
> lobal.com
> 
> The solution:
> 
> If you're facing this, you'll have to use a Telnet Program using
> "stream-mode". I'm not sure Windows' Telnet can do this. After long hours
> searching what was happening, to finally find it was caused by Windows'
> Telnet not respecting Telnet Protocol, my company bougth "Pragma
> TelnetServer" and all my telnetlib problem finally went away. I learned
> afterward about "stream-mode" so I don't know if Windows' Telnet offer this.
> 
> Really hope this help.
> 
> Yannick
> 
> 
> "Mike Monaghan" <junkmail at chipworks.net> wrote in message
> news:ab19b1e4.0409231130.6d1e1b7e at posting.google.com...
> > I do have a problem with an expect, but I'm 99% sure a control
> > character in the stream is missing from my expect statement because
> > some of the strings are being detected.  I'm going to play with it
> > again tonight.


From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Wed Oct 27 04:55:53 2004
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:55:53 +0200
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
In-Reply-To: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <clnnsa$b88$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

Russell E. Owen wrote:
  > So I tried being specific:
> os.popen3("C:\\Program Files\\ds9\\ds9")
> This also fails and the program that is not found is "C:\Program", 
> suggesting that the space in "Program Files" is causing the problem. The 
> following failed in exactly the same way:
> os.popen3("C:\\Program\ Files\\ds9\\ds9")
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 

The problem is that there are spaces into the path. Try to user 
os.popen3('"C:\\Program\ Files\\ds9\\ds9"').
The better choice is:

path_complete = os.path.join('c:\\', 'Program Files', 'ds', 'ds9')
os.popen3('"'+ path_complete +'"' )

It work for me.

Michele


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 15 16:18:23 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 23:18:23 +0300
Subject: checking available system memory?
References: <ckpa75$muv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <du7k6tr20s0.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Darren" == Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> writes:

    Darren> Its not a problem with numpy, I just need to intelligently
    Darren> slice up one of my arrays so my routine works within the
    Darren> available system resources. Are there any utilities that
    Darren> can query how much memory is available?

What platform? On Linux at least you can do 'cat /proc/meminfo' to get
more info than you probably want to have...

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Thu Oct 14 10:09:59 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:09:59 -0400
Subject: Quixote vs mod_python
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.14.06.43.56.912668@large.net>
References: <pan.2004.10.14.06.43.56.912668@large.net>
Message-ID: <ErqdnWM2bdMqFfPcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>

flab ba wrote:

> Can somebody sway me one way or the other ? What would Quixote give me
> that mod_python + Cheetah doesn't?

For me Zope works out really well.

You get everything in one place. HTTP, FTP, WEB-DAV, XML-RPC, page templates,
database connectors and python. Plus you can turn over parts of the
web development to others via delegated access. It does have a
learning curve alright ...

but I'd be more worried if it was me piecing together all this
functionality from independent modules or programs

Istvan.


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Oct 25 16:38:51 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:38:51 -0500
Subject: fastest table lookup
In-Reply-To: <cljhc9$cqe$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cljhc9$cqe$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <16765.25691.924729.788729@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Neal> I need a fairly small lookup table, and I'm wondering which data
    Neal> python data structure would be fastest.  

Define "fairly small", then as others have suggested, test.  I'd be
surprised if dicts were as fast as lists.

Skip




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Oct 29 14:19:29 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:19:29 -0300
Subject: List problem
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7B26@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Thomas M.]

#- test_list = [1, 2, 3]
#- 
#- for i in test_list:
#-    print i
#- 
#-    if 1 in test_list:
#-       test_list.remove(1)

As a rule of thumb, never modify a list that you're iterating.

If you want to modify the list, iterate a copy:

for i in test_list[:]:
	...


.	Facundo
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From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Fri Oct 22 02:50:24 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:50:24 GMT
Subject: Simplified Hardware Accelerated 2D Graphics
References: <4e4a11f8.0410211954.2e24db90@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Q42ed.16616$sO5.10353@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Simon Wittber" <simonwittber at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4e4a11f8.0410211954.2e24db90 at posting.google.com...
> LGT is a lightweight wrapper over pygame and PyOpenGL which simplifies
> 2D sprite creation, translation, scaling, rotation and animation for
> those of us who want a higher level abstraction of OpenGL and the
> graphics hardware.
>
> Features include:
>
>     * Any dimension texture loading
>     * Sprite strip based animated sprites
>     * Constant co-ordinate system across resolutions
>     * Lightweight MVC layer for input and screen events
>     * Sprite groups
>     * Simulated concurrent processing
>     * Fast alpha blending
>
> Check it out from http://metaplay.com.au/svn/LGT or download the
> tarball from http://metaplay.com.au/tarballs/LGT.tar.bz2
>
> Simon Wittber.

Very cool looking, but only one of your tutorial examples (tutorial.py) runs
successfully.  The others (plat.py, adv_tutorial.py, and animatedSprite.py)
all appear to use an old API.

Your NanoThreads threadpool (simulating threads with generators) works very
well, without the overhead of actual threads.

At some point, I may reimplement some of my sprite-centric Java applets to
try this out.

-- Paul




From sigzero at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 21:57:19 2004
From: sigzero at gmail.com (Robert)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:57:19 -0400
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5254.1098346524.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5254.1098346524.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Z7mdnc7-u7hi9eXcRVn-ug@adelphia.com>

Gerhard Haering wrote:
> [This is a repost from a message to python-dev on the users' list,
> because python-dev-ers thought a broader discussion of this is a good
> idea.]
> 
> Last December, we had a short thread discussing (in python-dev) the
> integration of PySQLite into Python 2.4. At the time, I was against
> inclusion, because I thought PySQLite was not ripe for it, mostly
> because I thought the API was not stable.
> 
> Now, I have started writing a new PySQLite module, which has the
> following key features:
> 
> - Uses iterator-style SQLite 3.x API: sqlite3_compile, sqlite3_step()
>   etc. This way, it is possible to use prepared statements, and for
>   large resultsets, it requires less memory, because the whole
>   resultset isn't fetched into memory at once any longer.
> 
> - Completely incompatible with the SQLite 0.x/1.x API: I'm free to
>   create a much better API now.
> 
> - "In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess." -
>   PySQLite 1.x tries to "guess" which Python type to convert to. It's
>   pretty good at it, because it queries the column type information.
>   This works for, I'd say 90 % of all cases at least. But as soon as
>   you use anything fancy like functions, aggregates or expressions in
>   SQL, the _typeless_ nature of SQLite breaks through and it will tell
>   us nothing about the declared column type (of course, because the
>   data is not coming from a database column).
> 
>   So I decided to change the default behaviour and make PySQLite
>   typeless by default, too. Everything will be returned as a Unicode
>   string (the default might be user-configurable per connection).
> 
>   Unless, unless of course the user explicitly activates the
>   "guess-mode" ;-) But to do so, she must read the docs then she will
>   be aware of the fact that it only works in 90 % of all cases.
> 
> So why am I bothering you about this?
> 
> I think that a simple embedded relational database would be a good
> thing to have in Python by default. And as Python 2.5 won't happen
> anytime soon, there's plenty of time for developing it, getting it
> stable, and integrating it.
> 
> Especially those of you that have used PySQLite in the past, do you
> have any suggestions that would make the rewrite a better candidate
> for inclusion into Python?
> 
> One problem I see is that even the new PySQLite will grow and try to
> wrap much of the SQLite API that are not directly related to the
> DB-API. If such a thing is too complicated/big for the standard
> library, then maybe it would be better to produce a much simpler
> PySQLite, especially for the Python standard library that leaves all
> the fancy stuff out. My codename would be "embsql".
> 
> So, what would you like to see? "import sqlite", "import embsql", or
> "pypi.install('pysqlite')" ?
> 
> -- Gerhard
"import sqlite"

Do we really have to wait unitil Python 2.5 to get it?  ;-)

Robert


From mauriceling at acm.org  Mon Oct 18 18:05:32 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:05:32 GMT
Subject: Python + Java knowledge
Message-ID: <41743e26$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>

Hi,

I've learnt and used Java and Python for a few years now, on bits of my 
thesis work etc etc. I will have to say that I love both languages and 
the possibilities they can provide. More recently, due to the toolkit 
that I use, I've been using Python. And I found that my Jva knowledge 
slacks a little. So, I'm looking for some tips on how to maintain the 
knowledge on both areas.

Has anyone done it?

Thanks
Maurice


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct  1 10:49:33 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:49:33 GMT
Subject: getrecursiondepth
In-Reply-To: <of3ql0t8760ug3ql6k8k58gliddu5logo4@4ax.com>
References: <27eal09cb6ggho5gbstgkbmvgillnova08@4ax.com>
	<cj3rd9$i9j$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<qebbl0l43c891b21udregn2pvj3phbfp90@4ax.com>
	<yMn5d.9974$gG4.9921@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<lf1dl0tqo6kui5gi2qmhgdqq0qdqfeqei0@4ax.com>
	<6fD5d.10550$gG4.6048@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<lhifl0969k5s8c87b9cg2pqrbe3in9oiv3@4ax.com>
	<Igg6d.12242$gG4.6109@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<bnfol0tf2q7e5d48p3pccs19c3ns6m6nme@4ax.com>
	<of3ql0t8760ug3ql6k8k58gliddu5logo4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <18e7d.294$M05.235@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Manlio Perillo wrote:
> 
> Actually this can be done without using getrecursiondepth:
> 
> 
>>>>def foo2(n = 0):
> 
>        if pystate.firstlevel_call():
> 	     foo2.recursiondepth = 0
>        else:
>            foo2.recursiondepth += 1


That's not thread-safe.  Suppose two different threads
called foo2() at the same time.  The second one ends
up resetting the recursiondepth so the first one will
get messed up.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Oct  1 14:48:41 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:48:41 -0700
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <yfshdpemlb4.fsf at black4.ex.ac.uk>,
 Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote:

> Two smallish things that have been bugging me; I'm not sure whether they're
> actually broken or not, but anyway here it goes:

> 1. ``os.system`` (and co): Shouldn't ``os.system``'s signature really be
>    ``os.system(cmd, arg1, arg2,...)`` rather than ``os.system(some_string)``?
...
>    BTW, if I'm not mistaken it's something that perl got right a long time
>    ago.
> 
>     > perl -e "system('touch', 'a b c', 'd')"
>     > ll
>     total 0
>     -rw-r--r--    1 aschmolc phd             0 Oct  1 17:48 a b c
>     -rw-r--r--    1 aschmolc phd             0 Oct  1 17:48 d

To elaborate on Martin v. Lowis' response, the
spawnv() function, and presumably Perl's system
as shown above, are distinctly different from
system(3), in that they execute the command directly
with the indicated parameters, where system()
executes the shell to interpret shell command text.

In my opinion Python got this much righter than Perl
when it used a different name.  Unlike the case with
Popen3, where the same function represents 2 different
APIs, both the string and the list - I see later in your
message you may be among the people who have been led
astray by that.

> P.S. speaking of running external processes -- I'm also unaware of a good,
> platform-independent (or even just unix) way to run a process that possibly
> accepts input, but will just continue on EOF from stdin and getting back
> stdout and stderr (if supported) as strings and the exit status.
> 
> I currently use this to run e.g. latex, but it doesn't seem to work 
> absolutely
> reliably and is unix only. I'm pretty sure there must be a better way.

Yes, but either you use disk files or it's more work.

The unreliability, I imagine is due to limitations of pipes'
device buffer space.  You're trying to execute the whole
thing within those limits - you wait() for process exit
before you have read a byte.  It would be better to read
output first, since that will terminate when the process
exits, and then wait() to retrieve the status.  A fully
reliable version needs to select on the two pipes to make
sure that the error pipe doesn't fill up while you're trying
to read all the output.  Use os.read on the file descriptor
so you're on the same page with select().

Or on the other hand, temporary disk files don't have these
problems and are of course more portable.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Oct 21 20:09:34 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:09:34 GMT
Subject: Method Underscores? (and a 'solution')
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298@jerf.org>
	<1gm17go.1r662ynelfha7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.21.20.08.48.57327@jerf.org>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:25:28 +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
> 
>> But what mystical language exists that uses less punctuation than Python?
> 
> Applescript, maybe.  'tell foo of bar to tweak zippo' where python would
> have bar.foo.tweak(zippo), looks like.  (I'm not enthusiastic about the
> idea, just pointing it out!-).

Point. Maybe Cobol on the same theory? I don't know, I've never used
either.

I guess if you're so stuck on the double-underscore-is-too-much-
punctuation idea, you *deserve* to try to do all your programming in a
combo of COBOL and Applescript :-)

I'm thinking I'll stick with Python.



From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Sat Oct 16 08:35:44 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 08:35:44 -0400
Subject: pyc files located elsewhere?
Message-ID: <m3vfdasuvz.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

Greetings.

On Python 2.3.3, is there any way to have the .pyc files created
elsewhere than in the same dir as the source files?

I have an application that consists of about 30 source files including
a few packages.

I would like it if my .pyc files could be in a subdir of the app root
if possible.  I would have to make sure that the subdir structure
underneath matched the structure of the app itself.

I would also consider having each package directory have its own PYC
directory and the compiled files could go in there even.

So, can I feed a prefix to the system that checks for and creates .pyc
files somehow?  My review of the Pydocs for related compilation issues
didn't seem to turn up an answer.

Thanks.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Sat Oct 23 17:49:47 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:49:47 -0400
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-D9DE07.17494723102004@localhost>

In article <mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

> drs <drs <at> remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com> writes:
> > 
> > I am looking for a list of all unique strings of length x whose
> > elements are from the set a, b, and c.
> 
> Does anyone know what this operation is called?  It's not 
> permutations or combinations as I understand them since permutations 
> and combinations do not allow repetition.  I assume there was already 
> a solution for this somewhere, but I didn't know what term to google 
> for.

The task you're describing is generation of all strings over a given 
alphabet.  Fortunately, there is a fairly simple technique for doing 
this -- here is a Python generator to do it:

def lexgen(alph, maxlen = None):
    """Generate all the possible strings over the given alphabet in 
    lexicographic order.  Stop after generating the strings of maxlen,
    if provided; otherwise, generate forever."""
    
    ixs = []
    
    while maxlen is None or len(ixs) <= maxlen:
        while True:
            yield str.join('', [ alph[ixs[x]] for x in
                                 xrange(len(ixs) - 1, -1, -1) ])

            for pos in xrange(len(ixs)):
                ixs[pos] = (ixs[pos] + 1) % len(alph)
                if ixs[pos] <> 0:
                    break

            if sum(ixs) == 0:
                break

        ixs += [0]

Cheers,
-M

-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 25 08:51:24 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 08:51:24 -0400
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5404.1098673843.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>	<qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>	<5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>	<QPmdndr7xOOG-efcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>	<slrncnntlt.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>	<KtGdnQJKpLvjruHcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5404.1098673843.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yt-dnaZxqr9Wa-HcRVn-qA@powergate.ca>

Andrew Durdin wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:58:06 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
 >>[about even DOS system calls accepting forward slash]
>>Does anyone have a reference for that?
> 
> Googling coincidentally brings up a c.l.py/python-list reference on
> the first page, so that thread might be a good starting point:
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-September/185211.html

Thanks!  I even participated in that thread, so I must have read it
at the time.  Shows how great my memory is. :-(

The summary is that ever since DOS added subdirectories (in DOS 2.0)
it has allowed either slash in the system calls.  Still, this was
problematic at the command line because the default "switch" character
was "/" and not "-", and because some programs hardcoded support for
only the backslash form.

Peter


From stewart.midwinter at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 01:41:04 2004
From: stewart.midwinter at gmail.com (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 22:41:04 -0700
Subject: xml file structure for use with ElementTree?
References: <d4c0d480.0410082230.29766fac@posting.google.com>
	<oPM9d.172$Bw1.90@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<d4c0d480.0410090807.2a3ea1a2@posting.google.com>
	<wF1ad.8002$UP1.5169@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <d4c0d480.0410102141.1fbbf6cf@posting.google.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message 
> XML syntax isn't that hard.  The summary is that everything
> looks pretty much like this
... snip ...


Thanks Andrew, that was a great summary of XML syntax.   It will come
in handy when I take the next step, editing a larger, more complex
file.

My ElementTree method is working properly now; I posted a little
sample app on Fredrik's discussion board on quicktopic.com.

cheers
Stewart


From haim at babysnakes.org  Fri Oct  8 10:42:56 2004
From: haim at babysnakes.org (Haim Ashkenazi)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:42:56 +0200
Subject: Quixote Question
References: <qb0am0phstiregekcdvatig5ccg9k8d5p2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.08.14.42.55.126162@babysnakes.org>

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:58:35 +0100, Fuzzyman wrote:

> I have a question about quixote. I've looked at the website but
> couldn't easily see the answer tomy question - so I thought I'd ask
> the intelligent and helpful folk over at comp.lang.python ;-)
> 
> Quixote is a web-framework. Does it act as a server or can it act as a
> frameowrk using the CGI protocol ?
> 
> I would like to develop a website with user login, download manager,
> statistics etc and I don't want to reinvent the wheel. *However* I am
> using someone elses server, so I would like to do it using python CGI.
> 
> Is this  :
> a) Possible with Quixote
> b) A sensible use of Quixote
I think you would better get the feel of it if you'll download and run the
demos. I just started playing with it, but as far as I understand, you can
use it as stand-alone server (using medusa or twisted), as a cgi script,
as a fastCGI/SCGI or as mod_python. using it with simple CGI interface
will give poor results (very slow). I got the fastest results with SCGI,
and it's only a couple of lines in httpd.conf to make it work (plus a
stop/start script).
again, you really should download and install it, and then you'll
understand much better, also, they have a very good mailing list...


> 
> Many TIA
> 
> Fuzzyman
> 
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


Bye
-- 
Haim




From kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net  Sat Oct  9 21:09:45 2004
From: kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net (Kenneth McDonald)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 01:09:45 GMT
Subject: Better way of getting parsed Python rather than an AST?
Message-ID: <091020042009446962%kenneth.m.mcdonald@sbcglobal.net>

Can anyone recommend something which will do one of the
following:

   1) Parse a Python file into an "object-oriented" syntax
      tree of some sort (eg. with function definitions represented
      by a "FunDef" class, etc.)

or

   2) Take an AST as produced by the Python AST module, and
      convert it into a "friendlier" form. Unless I'm missing something,
      the builtin AST representation seems somewhat, um, low-level.

I try to check the newsgroup regularly, but email as well as
a posting response would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ken McDonald
kenneth.m.mcdonald at sbcglobal.net


From flupke at nonexistingdomain.com  Fri Oct 29 10:48:26 2004
From: flupke at nonexistingdomain.com (flupke)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:48:26 GMT
Subject: deleting elements from a list in a for loop
In-Reply-To: <41825395$0$3679$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
References: <Risgd.3548$7R7.154746@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<41825395$0$3679$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <_Ksgd.3593$3k.319591@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Pierre Barbier de Reuille wrote:

> Hi !
> 
> Indeed, you cannot erase elements in a list you're iterating on !
> a possibility could be :
> 
> to_delete = []
> for i in xrange(len(el)):
>   if condition:
>     to_delete.insert(0, i)
> for i in to_delete:
>   del el[i]
> 
> That should work fine ...
> 
> flupke a ?crit :

Thanks,

that works great!

Benedict


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 22 02:33:47 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:33:47 -0700
Subject: Python and generic programming
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410220909400.3665@suzi.com.onego.ru>
References: <20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0410220909400.3665@suzi.com.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <20041021231712.0AD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:

> Most Python programs are already kinda generic, yes. But generic
> programming adds multi-sorted types control and constraints to ensure type
> safety...

"kinda generic"?  That is quite the understatement.

As for "type safety", Python has runtime type checking, and as a
programmer, if you want to have varying dispatch based on type, you are
free to do so:

foo_dispatch = {(int, int):foo_int_int, #some defined function
                ...}

def foo(arg1, arg2):
    foo_dispatch[(type(arg1), type(arg2))](arg1, arg2)


With decorator syntax, the above becomes even easier.


Your arguments claiming Python is not generic, and your suggestions that
Python is not type safe while being generic are unfounded.  One likely
reason why you don't find many examples of what I show above, is because
it is usually not necessary; even for production applications.

 - Josiah



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Oct 27 09:36:18 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:36:18 -0300
Subject: Please help - get average
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7AF0@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Robin Becker]

#- ...... interestingly the standard algorithms for 
#- means/deviations are 
#- numerically poor. As an example
#- 
#-  >>> (1.e30+1-1.0e30)/3
#- 0.0

It's not a problem of the algorithm, it's a problem of the precision of
binary floating point (which is fixed by your hardware).

If you want arbitrary precision, use Decimal:

>>> import decimal
>>> decimal.getcontext().prec=35
>>> d = decimal.Decimal("1e30")
>>> (d+1-d)/3
Decimal("0.33333333333333333333333333333333333")
>>> 

.	Facundo


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Tue Oct 26 04:02:00 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:02:00 -0000
Subject: Python + Java knowledge [OT]
References: <mailman.5169.1098194201.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4175ed72$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<tjfgn016is8t1gmigr81jd5dpuq5q4f4nn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrncns13o.4oe.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <tjfgn016is8t1gmigr81jd5dpuq5q4f4nn at 4ax.com>, Alan Gauld wrote:
> Are you sure you don't know some SQL and DOS Batch language, or
> Unix shell dialects? And if you know Java and C then C++ is but a
> step away... Add those to your 5 and suddenly you know 9 and a
> dozen languages doesn't seem so far away does it? :-)

As someone who has recently had to do a major overhaul of a bunch of DOS
Batch files (and it's not even over yet), I would just like to say, for the
record, that DOS Batch does not even deserve to be called a language. Any
"language" that requires you to shell out to an external program, FOR.EXE,
with an arcane parameter that only works in recent versions of Windows,
combined with multiple invocations of CMD.EXE to perform variable
substitutions that %%look%%like%this%% on an array that had to be simulated
through naming convention, just to write a loop over a list, should be taken
out and shot, like this sentence.

There. I feel better.

-- 
 .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
        "talking about music is like dancing about architecture."


From xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net  Wed Oct 27 04:41:22 2004
From: xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 08:41:22 GMT
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
References: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
	<1098798679.22370.313.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<mailman.5534.1098839555.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns958F6CD39BAD3PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>

Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> said :

> I've been using Charles Cazabon's getmail (pure Python) for quite some
> time in place of fetchmail.
 
Yes, I found that hidden gem too after searching high and low for a less 
daunting alternative to fetchmail. I use it during the holidays to prevent 
my mailboxes from overflowing - easy to set up, works like a charm, and 
uses the plain old mbox format so it integrates well with 
Mozilla/Thunderbird.

During that time however there is no mail left on the server, and when I 
come back there are those huge files to mount and despam in TB, so I'm 
looking for something more permanent.

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From tonino.greco at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 04:20:05 2004
From: tonino.greco at gmail.com (TAG)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:20:05 +0200
Subject: Collapse a list and eval ??
Message-ID: <5db3bf0004100801206674f49a@mail.gmail.com>

HI,

If I have a list :

data=['round', '(', '(', 12345, '*', '-', '0.0025', ')', ',', '2', ')', '']

how can I collapse it so that it becomes:
data_collapsed=['round((12345*-0.0025),2)']

and then run an eval() on it ?

Am I doing this the right way ?

Thanks
Tonino


From cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu  Mon Oct 25 04:08:39 2004
From: cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu (Christopher J. Bottaro)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 03:08:39 -0500
Subject: Unqualified global vars, how?
Message-ID: <cljm88$ter$1@sea.gmane.org>

>From the python programming FAQ, I learned you can do this:

Globals.py:
gv = 1

A.py:
import Globals
class A:
        def __init__(self):
                print Globals.gv
                Globals.gv += 1

B.py:
import Globals
class B:
        def __init__(self):
                print Globals.gv
                Globals.gv += 1

main.py:
import A
import B
a = A.A()
b = B.B()

That will print:
1
2
and Globals.gv will have a final value of 3.

I want access to gv without having to qualify it with Globals.  I tried
saying:

A.py:
from Globals import gv
class A:
        def __init__(self):
                print gv
                gv += 1

But python complains that gv isn't defined yet.  Is what I want to do
possible?  I just want one module (file) with a bunch of globals vars and
to able to access those global vars without qualify them the module name.

Thanks for the help.



From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 11 10:26:17 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 14:26:17 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<du7fz4n6ozx.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<41695425$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1glhz5t.k4p1lz19jdab0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416a9808$0$416$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-11, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>    ...
>> Probably so, but that doesn't support the arguement that
>> there's something wrong with a logical xor argument coercing
>> it's operands to boolean values unless one also argues that
>> the logical "and", "or" and "not" operators should also not
>> coerce their operands to booleans.
>
> One of the greatest sources of usefulness for 'and' and 'or' is exactly
> that these operators _don't_ coerce their operands

Surely they must coerce the operands for the "test" part if not
for the "return" part.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Being a BALD HERO
                                  at               is almost as FESTIVE as a
                               visi.com            TATTOOED KNOCKWURST.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  1 09:36:18 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:36:18 -0400
Subject: recursing through files in a folder
In-Reply-To: <df19e346.0410010520.2fb318d9@posting.google.com>
References: <df19e346.0410010520.2fb318d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <l7d7d.1854$gk.1164@okepread01>

Scott Carlson wrote:

> New to Python.  Very new.
> 
> I need to pass a parameter to the program I create that points to a
> folder.  (How are params passed in?)
> 
The sys module has an argv member,  with the usual convention that the 
program name is argument zero.

So if you just add one directory (sorry, folder) name to the command 
line you need something like:

     myFolder = sys.argv[1]

> Then, I need to be able to scroll through each file in the folder,
> looking for files with a particular naming convention.
> 
> What is the best way to be able to look at each file in a folder and
> decide if I wish to use that one, and then go to the next file?
> 
The easiest way would be to use the "glob" module, specifically made for 
tricks like that. Functions in os.path can be useful to keep your code 
portable, too. Suppose you wanted a list of Windows executables in the 
folder, you'd use something like:

#!/usr/bin/python
import sys, glob, os.path

folder = sys.argv[1]
pattern = "*.exe"
filenames = glob.glob(os.path.join(folder, pattern))
for f in filenames:
     print f

and run it like so:

C:\Steve>files.py C:\Installers
C:\Installers\AdbeRdr60_enu_full.exe
C:\Installers\awrdpr210_setup.exe
    .
    .
    .
C:\Installers\winzip90.exe
C:\Installers\wxPythonWIN32-2.5.1.5-Py23.exe

or, in Unix-like environments:
$ ./files.py /c/Installers
/c/Installers/AdbeRdr60_enu_full.exe
/c/Installers/awrdpr210_setup.exe
    .
    .
    .
/c/Installers/winzip90.exe
/c/Installers/wxPythonWIN32-2.5.1.5-Py23.exe


regards
  Steve


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Tue Oct  5 12:20:12 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:20:12 GMT
Subject: convert scientific integer to normal integer
References: <a2972632.0410050751.6b0b39d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0Rz8d.38583$N.12644@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"les ander" <les_ander at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a2972632.0410050751.6b0b39d at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
> i have a file with lines like this:
>   1.7000000e+01   2.4000000e+01   1.0000000e+00   8.0000000e+00
1.5000000e+01
>   2.3000000e+01   5.0000000e+00   7.0000000e+00   1.4000000e+01
1.6000000e+01
>   4.0000000e+00   6.0000000e+00   1.3000000e+01   2.0000000e+01
2.2000000e+01
>   1.0000000e+01   1.2000000e+01   1.9000000e+01   2.1000000e+01
3.0000000e+00
>   1.1000000e+01   1.8000000e+01   2.5000000e+01   2.0000000e+00
9.0000000e+00
>
> Notice that they are all integers.
> What I want to do is write them out in a regular way, by which I mean that
the
> output should look like this:
> 17 24 1 9 15
> 23 5 7 14 16
> etc
>
> I tried the following but it did not work:
> fp=open(argv[1])
> for x in fp:
>   xc=[int(e) for e in x.split()]
>   print " ".join(xc)
>
>
> any help would be much appreciated
int(e) fails because it doesn't like the decimal point.  See below, using
int(float(e)).

-- Paul

---------------------------------
testdata = """
1.7000000e+01   2.4000000e+01   1.0000000e+00   8.0000000e+00
1.5000000e+01
2.3000000e+01   5.0000000e+00   7.0000000e+00   1.4000000e+01
1.6000000e+01
4.0000000e+00   6.0000000e+00   1.3000000e+01   2.0000000e+01
2.2000000e+01
1.0000000e+01   1.2000000e+01   1.9000000e+01   2.1000000e+01
3.0000000e+00
1.1000000e+01   1.8000000e+01   2.5000000e+01   2.0000000e+00
9.0000000e+00
"""

for line in testdata.split('\n'):
    print [ int(float(e)) for e in line.split() ]
---------------------------------
gives:
[]
[17, 24, 1, 8, 15]
[23, 5, 7, 14, 16]
[4, 6, 13, 20, 22]
[10, 12, 19, 21, 3]
[11, 18, 25, 2, 9]
[]




From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 15:52:38 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 12:52:38 -0700
Subject: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow after
	an exception is raised)
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0410011152.31fb1dae@posting.google.com>

In a recent post, Michele Simionato asked about resumable (or
re-entrant) exceptions, the basic idea being that when raised and
uncaught, these exceptions would only propagate backwards through a
limited number of frames before being implicitly ignored.  Alex
Martelli pointed out that resumable exceptions are difficult to
implement, and that the need for them isn't pressing because it's
pretty easy to write a program with explicit error handling that works
just fine, citing Bjarne Stroustrup's thoughts on the same topic for
C++.
This is probably quite right.

Nonetheless, I tried to write some demo code that implemented
resumable exceptions, but ran face-first into a brick wall:  I
couldn't find any way to manipulate the call stack (to execute code in
a frame other than the current one)

What if exceptions were given more control?

Proposal: 

1. Call a __raise__ method in the exception when raised
2. Call an __uncaught__ method in every frame for which the exception
is not handled by an except clause.   __uncaught__ would decide
whether or not to continue to propagate the exception to the next
frame.  If __uncaught__ decides to abort the exception, then the
calling statement is aborted/ignored--- the implicit equivalent of:

try:
  do_something()
except:
  pass


Anyway, this is just idle speculation.  I don't really see a need for
it, but it's interesting to ponder.


Here are some hypothetical uses:


1. An exception that propagates only n frames:

class QuietException(Exception):
  def __init__(self, n):
    Exception.__init__(self)
    self.n = n

  def __raise__(self):
    self.counter = self.n

  def __uncaught__(self):
    if self.counter > 0:
      self.counter -= 1
      return True
    else:
      return False

2. An exception that keeps a traceback as it goes:
 
class TracingException(Exception):

  def __raise__(self):
    self.traceback = []

  def __uncaught__(self):
    self.traceback.append(sys._getframe(1))

...

try: 
  foo()
except TracingException, e:
  # isn't this more elegant than sys.last_traceback?
  import traceback
  traceback.print_tb(e.traceback)


3. An exception that resumes execution if some global FAULT_TOLERANT
is true:

class FaultTolerantException(Exception):
  def __uncaught__(self):
    return not FAULT_TOLERANT


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 24 06:59:40 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:59:40 GMT
Subject: backslash plague
References: <2tt4b2F24cffeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1gm2tuh.sg3fl11rm2newN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417ad0d7.591943519@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <417b8558.638152795@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:33:05 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:20:30 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
>
>>Luis P. Mendes <luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt> wrote:
>>    ...
>>> I've already read many pages on this but I'm not able to separate the
>>> string 'R0\1.2646\1.2649\D' in four elements, using the \ as the separator.
>>
>>x = r'R0\1.2646\1.2649\D'
>>elements = x.split('\\')
>>
>>> and why must I write two '' after the \?  If I hadn't used r I would
>>> understand...
>>
>>A raw literal can't end with an odd number of backslashes (_some_ way
>>has to be there to escape the quote char, after all).
>>
>Hm, just had the thought that something analogous to HDLC bit-stuffing
>could be used. IIRC bitstreams had escape flags composed of 5 successive bits,
>and if you wanted to transmit 5 successive data bits, you just added an extra bit
>at the end to make 6 to show that the five did not comprise a flag. The extra bits
>would get dropped on decoding when a 6th 1 followed 11111 and would be recognized
>as a flag otherwise.
BZZT! wrong ;-(
The flag is 01111110 and I believe 0 gets stuffed after the 5th 1 to make sure
the flag is not part of data between real flags.

>
>Translating this to quoted character sequences, we could have an alternate triple
>quoted raw string format, with quote-stuffing instead of escapes. I.e., to quote
>three successive quote characters, we stuff a 4th quote, which the tokenizer drops
>as it creates the internal byte sequence string representation, so we don't need
>escapes in the usual sense.
This does not work for e.g. quoting as single quote, so it's not general at all :-(

>
>Thus (using f prefix to indicate flagged quote-stuffing syntax) you could write:
>
>    x = f'''c:\whatever\'''
>
>and to quote the line above (without taking advantage of alternate quotes):
>
>    q = f'''    x = f''''c:\whatever\'''''''
>         ^^^         ^^^|            ^^^|^^^
>
>where ^^^ is flag and | indicates a stuffed quote that
>makes the previous otherwise-flag into three quotes in the data.
>You could quote again (using same type quote for illustrative purposes
>again, since oviously you could do better using both ' and "):
>
>    r = f'''f''''    x = f'''''c:\whatever\'''''''''''
>             ^^^|         ^^^|             ^^^|^^^|^^^
>
>(I think ;-)
>
>I guess the worst-case data to quote would be a repeating pattern of
>'''""" or """''' since neither type of quote character would give an
>advantage, but 1-in-6 overhead is still not too bad, and it would be rare.
>
>Is there a hole in this raw string quoting syntax?
>
Unfortunately, yes.

I thought of another format, but it doesn't quote previously quoted arbitrary text
without modifying at least the last character, so phooey. Might as well go to the
previously suggested mime-style delimiting, which an editor macro could do for
arbitrary selected text. It could use str(time.time()) as delimiter text without
much risk, IWT.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 18:25:44 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 15:25:44 -0700
Subject: How do you write this in python
References: <8f17f4bc.0410022000.e331cbe@posting.google.com>
	<41603d90_1@newsfeed.slurp.net>
	<8f17f4bc.0410041645.630ee821@posting.google.com>
	<g5cc32-976.ln1@suse.zobbo.org>
	<8f17f4bc.0410061441.36e60e50@posting.google.com>
	<10m915q4pm1cv30@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410071425.26c4fc9@posting.google.com>

O I see... Thank you so much!


From list at data.pl  Sat Oct 16 13:02:14 2004
From: list at data.pl (Tomasz Lisowski)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:02:14 +0200
Subject: pickle format question
Message-ID: <41715414$1@news.home.net.pl>

The documentation says, that the output from pickle.dumps() consists of 
"printable ASCII" characters. Does it mean the range from ASCII 32 to 
127? Or the expected character range is different?

It would be best, if the character 127 was also excluded :-)

I need this information for creating the text file containing the 
pickled Python data (strings, numbers, tuples, lists, nothing else) in 
the encoded (enciphered) form.

-- 
Tomasz Lisowski


From noone at here.com  Sun Oct 24 13:05:48 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:05:48 +0100
Subject: wx position of items in list
Message-ID: <clgn8j$pu8$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi All,

This would seem to be easy, but I have had no luck in working out how to do
this.

In wx.python a list of text is displayed as a bitmap and given it's
position.

        shape.pos = (145, 270)

What I want to do is to increase the y value for every 20 items in the list,
so the text is displayed to a new line. So for items in list numbered 0 -19
y = 270, for items in list numbered 20 - 39 y = 370 etc...

Thanks for any help,

Malcolm




From bjourne at gmail.com  Sun Oct 10 23:53:47 2004
From: bjourne at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:53:47 +0200
Subject: Using tuples correctly?
Message-ID: <740c3aec04101020532f3bac58@mail.gmail.com>

I like tuples alot. But in some situations you seem to be forced to
access the elements of a tuple via its indexes and that is pretty
ugly. For example:

# make_color() returns a rgb tuple (r, g, b). I.e. (255, 0, 0)
print "The red value is: ", make_color()[0]

Not nice at all. It is maybe OK for a rgb tuple that only has three
elements, but for a tuple that has 10+ elements, index access is
rediculous. In that case, unpacking wont helpe either. What you would
like to write is:

print "The red value is: ", make_color().r

You can get that to work by using this recipe
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/218485 from
the Python Cookbook. Then write this:

Color = superTuple("Color", ["r", "g", "b"])
def make_color():
      return Color(12, 24, 48)

However, then make_color has to assume that there already exists a
special tuple type named Color. But that assumption is bad and you
shouldn't need to assume it. You could also write

return superTuple("Color", ["r", "g", "b"])(12, 24, 48)

To create the tuple type and instantiate it at the same type. But it
is alot to write. You could trim it down to: st("r", "g", "b")(12, 24,
48) if you want to save your fingers. Still to much and looks kinda
awkward.

After some more browsing of the Python Cookbook and googling it seems
like lots of people is trying to emulate structs on the fly in python.
So why aren't there a tuple-with-named-attributes type in python? So
you could write stuff like this:

return (r: 10, g: 20, b: 30) or maybe return (.r 10, .g 20, .b 30)

Clearly, I must be thinking wrong or it would already be implemented
in python. Atleast there would have been a PEP for it. Maybe I'm just
using tuples incorrectly and that is why my code uses index access to
tuples? Someone must have already thought about this and they must
have discussed it and quickly realized that this is A Very Bad Thing.
But why?  I'm new, so please dont get to angry if the answer is
obvious.

-- 
mvh Bj?rn


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 06:21:43 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:21:43 +0200
Subject: Newbie Question
References: <4C1ed.5243$TU5.3711@trndny06>
	<irfhn0l4t1resvjc605bc72jr49upm02rh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1gm24rk.3qtaypqesm69N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Alan Gauld <alan.gauld at btinternet.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:17:36 GMT, "John Smith"
> <oldphartyankee at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > Aside from the text online, what are the best books for a newbie learning
> > python as their first language? 
> 
> Well I'm biased but I think my book "Learning to Program Using
> Python" is pretty good for the complete beginner :-)

It is indeed an excellent book, though I have a preference for Dawson's.


> Others include "Teach Yourself Python in 24 hours" and
> the "Visual Python"(?) book gets good crits too - but I haven't
> read that one. 

Haven't read them either.  I have a bias against the titles!-)

> "Python, How to Program" by the Dietels tries to start at the
> beginner level but I suspect it dives too deep too quickly for
> many, and it is quite expensive.

Unsuitable for anything except a college text with a professor helping,
IMHO (I was a technical reviewer for it).


> Most other books are aimed at those with at least one other
> language behind them so don't explain all the jargon and concepts
> as much as those above.

True.


> However despite being bad for my royalties I'd actually recommend
> trying the various beginners online tutorials first and then
> buying one of the more mainstream books (Learning Python, Quick
> Python etc) as a long term better value investment. You will use
> those books for a longer period than the complete beginners
> guides I suspect.

If one chose this route, I would suggest Hetland's "Practical Python" as
the book to buy after digesting all the online tutorials.

However, the experience of learning from a paper book is quite different
from learning from a screen (if you print out all the tutorials on a
typical printer you're spending more than for printed books...!-), and I
think that for most people the paper book has advantages.  Not knowing
whether this applies to a given querant, I would assume it probably
does, and thus suggest your book, or Dawson's.


Alex


From richie at entrian.com  Mon Oct  4 06:34:08 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:34:08 +0100
Subject: ANN: eric v. 3.5.0 available
In-Reply-To: <4o7532-q8g.ln1@stargate.solsys.priv>
References: <4o7532-q8g.ln1@stargate.solsys.priv>
Message-ID: <me92m0d9ro5bh4em26l4f8dfb0mjr9o9h0@4ax.com>


[Detlev]
> I am proud to announce the immediate availability of eric v. 3.5.0.

Is there any chance of a free-to-use Eric on Windows via qt3-win32
(http://kde-cygwin.sourceforge.net/qt3-win32/)?  I Googled around and
couldn't find anything.

Likewise, are there any online archives for the Eric mailing list?  I
couldn't find those either (but it's Monday morning and my Google powers
are weak).

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From jbellis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 23:10:42 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan  Ellis)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 20:10:42 -0700
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <1098414642.736428.8940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Jonathan Ellis wrote:
> > I haven't jumped into a project of similar size with python, but
the
> > tool support for this approach to working with a large codebase
just
> > isn't there, and I haven't seen any convincing arguments that
> > alternative methodologies are enough better to make up for this.
>
> I'm getting the impression you also haven't tried any significant
> test-driven development.  The benefits of this approach are *easily*
> convincing to most people, and it also fits the bill as removing the
> need for a very sizable portion of the tool support which you rightly
> point out is not there in most tools for dynamically typed languages.

I think I responded to this already --

> > Testing is good; preventing entire classes of errors from ever
> > happening at all is better, particularly when you get large.
Avoiding
> > connectedness helps, but that's not always possible.

Oh yes; so I did. :)  (See my reply to another subthread for one
example of when static type checking saved me a LOT of work.)

What is the biggest system you have built with python personally?  I'm
happy to be proven wrong, but honestly, the most enthusiastic "testing
solves all my problem" people I have seen haven't worked on anything
"large" -- and my definition of large agrees with Alex's; over 100
kloc, more than a handful of developers.

So people don't get me wrong: I love python.  Most of my programming
friends call me "the python zealot" behind my back.  I just don't think
it's the right tool for every problem.

Specifically, in my experience, statically-typed languages make it much
easier to say "okay, I'm fixing a bug in Class.Foo; here's all the
places where it's used."  This lets me see how Foo is actually used --
in a perfect world, Foo's documentation is precise and up to date, but
I haven't worked anywhere that this was always the case -- which lets
me make my fix with a reasonable chance of not breaking anything.
Compile-time type checking increases those chances.  Unit tests
increase that further, but relying on unit tests as your first and only
line of defense is suboptimal when there are better options.

> Having experience with both approaches, and choosing one over
> the other, gives one greater credibility than having experience
> with just one approach, yet clinging to it...

You are incorrect if you assume I am unfamiliar with python.  I readily
admit I have no experience with truly large python projects; I would
classify my the python application I work on as "small," but it seems I
am in good company here in that respect...  I do claim to have fairly
extensive experience with large projects in a statically typed language
(Java).

-Jonathan



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Oct 18 17:35:59 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:35:59 +0200
Subject: bz2 module
In-Reply-To: <cl18e4$ma5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cl18e4$ma5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <4174373e$0$24525$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> It fails with this error:
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'BZ2File'

Can you please print bz2.__file__ right before the error?
On my system, it gives

/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload/bz2.so

I wonder what bz2 possibly could be on your system if importing
it succeeds, but looking for BZ2file fails.

Regards,
Martin


From spam at nospam.org  Tue Oct 26 17:58:30 2004
From: spam at nospam.org (Erik Johnson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:58:30 -0600
Subject: using re: hitting recursion limit
References: <417eab49$1@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <417ec712$1@nntp.zianet.com>

    ayup....

sys.getrecursionlimit() and
sys.setrecursionlimit()

is the sort of thing I was thinking about, but wasn't aware of exactly what
or where the functions were. :)  Thanks for that, Terry.

    And I will have to study Andrew's reply for a while to fully understand
it, but I got the general idea. I have read about look-ahead assertions in
Perl before, but never actually used them. I think I can work with this.

Thank you both for the fast and helpful replies!  :)

-ej




From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Fri Oct 15 04:13:00 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:13:00 +0800
Subject: do many ip address send request to server,
	every client connection keep alive
Message-ID: <cko0qi$hq1$1@netnews.hinet.net>

as title.....how to do it ?..... >_<

use remote call....? can don't use remote (possible)??on the same host use a 
single process ?? modify ip header ??? 




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  8 11:28:18 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:28:18 -0400
Subject: Desactivating Python keywords and built-in functions
In-Reply-To: <ck6b0l$12p$1@online.de>
References: <f06d8508.0410080645.17341a82@posting.google.com>
	<ck6b0l$12p$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <oMmdneMB9a-PL_vcRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

Benjamin Niemann wrote:
> Various people have tried this but failed...
> Python's dynamic nature is too powerful and sufficiently intelligent 
> hackers will always find a way around your restrictions.

Maybe not *always*, but certainly nobody has yet shown themselves
willing and able to go all the way with an implementation which
is sufficiently secure that they could prove you wrong. ;-)

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct  5 21:33:04 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:33:04 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4365.1097001657.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>	<4162CFCE.6040700@cloudthunder.com>	<20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4365.1097001657.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <CuWdnYPaJ93S1v7cRVn-hg@powergate.ca>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> Kids. You should try it. When they come to you with a list of 45+
> questions about the meaning of life, the universe and everything, then
> you may be able to understand how did _we_ feel. :-)
> 
> (Excuse me -- you're a retired philosophy teacher, so these questions
> must be easy for you. Sorry ;-).

Carlos, bad example!  "Meaning of life" is about the farthest
removed thing from the level of Richard's questions that you
could find.

More like this (forgive the lack of humour in a perfect
opportunity for it... it's been a long day and my brain
is doubtless too slow to make the effort effective):

Daddy, please write down answers to each of the following
questions, paying particular attention to proper English
usage and formatting, thanks:

1. Do ducks have legs?
2. Is yellow a higher or lower wavelength than green?
3. What's the airspeed of an African swallow?
    a. And an unladen one?
4. What recent attempts has the Hormel food products company
    made at restricting the use of the word Spam for unsolicited
    email?  Were they successful?  Why not?
5. Can we reach the ceiling if we jump?
6. Cement trucks
7. Where is mommy?
8. What is Google used for?
9. Show us.
10. Now.
11. What day is it today?
12. And tomorrow?
13. The day after?
14. ....
....

I can't go on...

Suffice to say that rather than be delighted, Richard would
be appalled at the sheer lack of functioning gray matter that
his non-existent kids were demonstrating, and he'd be back
here the next day asking us where he could find a good lawyer...
to disown them!

(As he points out in his reply, it is a quite different case.)

-Peter


From elie at flashmail.com  Thu Oct 21 11:53:21 2004
From: elie at flashmail.com (Eli Daniel)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 08:53:21 -0700
Subject: String changing on the fly
References: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com>
	<1glzcvj.5uv1lg12ypgy2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aef9ef3d.0410202338.6c091ff2@posting.google.com>
	<1gm04ht.e3wqjt19zaabaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <aef9ef3d.0410210753.67f0a70@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gm04ht.e3wqjt19zaabaN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> Eli Daniel <elie at flashmail.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > > As others have said, you need to pass do_action the dictionary of the
> > > local variables of the function (or module's body) from which you're
> > > calling it: do_action('it cost $T dollars', vars()).  If you don't pass
> > > this argument explicitly it IS possible for do_action to recover it by
> > > black magic, but that would be very bad practice.
> > > 
> > > Apart from this, your best bet might be to upgrade to 2.4 (the current
> > > beta appears quite good), which offers exactly this functionality in the
> > > string.Template class.  Otherwise, see how string.py does it (in the 2.4
> > > standard library) and copy the solution.  But reusing the solution
> > > directly is much preferable, and for that you need 2.4.
>  ...
> > Thank you all.
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> > I've written a solution which sends that vars on every function call
> > as suggested (do_action('it cost $T dollars', vars()) which works
> > great.
> 
> Good!
> 
> > I've spent some time trying to avoid sending the vars (before I saw
> > the previous post) with no much success (I've tried all kind of
> > imports which resulted in some weird issues for a new guy like me).
> > I'll try the beta, if it solves the problem that's great and if not
> > the above solution is good as well.
> 
> It doesn't, per se, allow you to avoid passing vars() -- it just supples
> in class string.Template the functionality for $-interpolation.
> 
> To avoid passing vars() you need black magic inside function do_action:
> it must root around in the call-stack and find out the local variables
> of its caller.  That's not impossible, but it's not considered Python
> style.  "Explicit is better than implicit": when you pass vars() it's
> obvious that the function is going to use the value of some of your
> local variables, and you also gain some flexibility by being able to
> pass another dictionary; when you pass nothing, it's pretty deep and
> dark and mysterious what IS going to happen.
> 
> If you feel you must allow calling do_action without vars(), while not
> recommended and not good Python style, you can.  Python shares 4.5 out
> of 5 principles that define the Spirit of C according to the intro of
> C's official standard, after all, and the first two are:
> 1. trust the programmer
> 2. don't prevent the programmer from doing what needs to be done.
> 
> so, here's the 2.4 code one might use for that (NOT recommended...):
> 
> import string, inspect
> 
> def do_action(message, thevars=None)
>     if thevars is None:
>         thevars = inspect.currentframe(1).f_locals
>     print string.Template(message) % thevars
> 
> 
> The black magic is the call to inspect.currentframe, which is very
> clearly documented (at an interactive prompt, do import inspect and then
> help(inspect.currentframe)) with:
> '''
> This function should be used for internal and specialized purposes only.
> '''
> 
> Well, maybe not THAT clear, but hopefully scary enough.  The concept is:
> if you know what you're doing, we trust you, and we don't prevent you
> from doing what you judge NEEDS to be done, even though it requires
> black magic that reaches behind the scenes of the execution model,
> plucking a frame out of the call-stack and accessing its implementation
> detail 'f_locals' attribute -- "on your head be it";-).
> 
> Just be sure it NEEDS to be done -- be sure it's a PROBLEM to do things
> cleanly, explicitly, simply, and in the obvious way -- Python strongly
> urges you to rethink your framing of the issue, but doesn't force you.
> 
> 
> Alex


Hi,
My first script was is and running - with the version which accepts
the vars().
That's ok, although if it could have easily be removed - I would have.
I think that for now with my little knowledge of Python I should not
try the black magic, as you said- I should know what I'm doing, and
I'm not really.

Anyway when migerating from TCL, it's easy to teach somone to add at
the end of the function call an additional parameter, "vars()" that
telling him to sabtitue every parameter with '+ str(thevar)'. The
reason is not that the later is harder to understand or write, it is
simply less readable especialy when you write a large text with some
variables as a parameter.

cheers,
Eli


From chrisNOSPAM at spam.com  Mon Oct  4 03:22:55 2004
From: chrisNOSPAM at spam.com (Chris)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:22:55 +0200
Subject: FTP without timeout?
Message-ID: <1096874575.935801@ftpgate>

How do I setup an FTP connection without timeout using ftplib.FTP?

I've tried
ftp = ftplib.FTP('server')
ftp.login('user', 'xxx')
ftp.sock.settimeout(None)
or
ftp.sock.settimeout(3600)
or
ftp.sock.setblocking(True)
but it always timeout after 10 minutes of inactivity.
The server allows idle up to 240 minutes before disconnecting.

Please help! Thanks in advance.

Chris




From Wolfgang.Stoecher at profactor.at  Wed Oct 13 07:34:40 2004
From: Wolfgang.Stoecher at profactor.at (Wolfgang.Stoecher at profactor.at)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:34:40 +0200
Subject: strange side effect with lists!?
Message-ID: <OF8CDF91A2.603772BE-ONC1256F2C.002E8BFD-C1256F2C.00400C1E@profactor.at>

Hello,

I'm new to Python and playing around. I'm confused by the following 
behaviour:

>>> l1 = [1] # define list
>>> l2 = l1  # copy of l1 ?
>>> l2,l1
([1], [1])
>>> l2.extend(l1) # only l2 should be altered !?
>>> l2,l1
([1, 1], [1, 1]) # but also l1 is altered!

So what is the policy of assignment? When is a copy of an object created? 
Where to find dox on this?

thanx,

Wolfgang


From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Oct 25 04:24:33 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:24:33 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <1gm4rq5.1c25kfc12o6jivN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Qd6dnUTV2ZBkBefcRVn-pg@giganews.com>
	<1gm4rq5.1c25kfc12o6jivN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <417cb790$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Surely there is no prohibition against the Python code generating all
> the HTML it wants; it doesn't even have to use any template whatsoever
> if it doesn't want to, generating HTML from code is the main thrust of
> stan, somewhat similarly to Quixote.  It's not true that Nevow _is_
> templating: Nevow _has_ templating, as one of many tools -- it just
> happens to be the one tool I think should be used, given the scenarios I
> explained.


The main problem with most templating systems is not only that they mix 
markup and code, but also that markup reuse is allmost impossible.

An illustrative example is a "box". Often seen in the and right hand 
side of websites. Eg. on sites like slashdot. Basically it has a title 
and some content. It usually appears many places on a site, and so is a 
prime candidate for reuse.


It can be defined very simply in html like::

     <div class="box">
         <h5>A title</h5>
         Some content.
     </div>


If you want to reuse this in most teplate systems, you need to do it in 
the programming language. Eg. in Python like::


def box(title, content):
     return """<div class="box">
     <h5>%s</h5>
     %s
     </div>""" % (title, content)


But now there is allready a problem. It is out of the hands of the 
layouter. A programmer is needed to go in and change the markup. 
Naturally this is a simple example, so a layouter would probably be able 
to do it. But as the templates gets increasingly more complex, it's 
going to be increasingly difficult for the layouter to do any changes.

Another thing is that you cannot call this as markup. You need to use 
programming conventions::

     <% box('My little Box', 'Some content in the Box with <b>bold</b> 
markup')%>

This approach of reuse, while technically correct, is next to useless. 
Even if there is only mildly complex markup as content in the box.

Zope Page Templates has a far better approach to this imho. Where you 
define reusable markup in a macro.

The box could then be defined with title and content slots like::


     <div metal:define-macro="box">
         <h5><metal:block define-slot="title">The title</metal:block></h5>
         <metal:block define-slot="content"/>This is example 
content</metal:block>
     </div>


Wich you can resuse like:


     <div class="box" metal:use-macro="box">
         <h5 metal:fill-slot="title">A Title</h5>
         <metal:block fill-slot="content">Some content in the Box with 
<b>bold</b> markup</metal:block>
     </div>


This approach makes it relatively easy to reuse markup as well as logic. 
It is possible use arbitrarily complex markups as "parameters" to the 
slots in the template. Wich makes it very nice for larger systems.


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 09:53:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:53:28 +0200
Subject: C API q
References: <fjpgd.120483$dP1.407216@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <1gmfdbg.1threpoqo41wbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Emanuel Landeholm <emanuel.landeholm at telia.com> wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> I'm a Py neophyte trying to code an extension module in C. I would like
> to know how, canonically, to remove a certain PyObject from a PyList,
> from C. The solution I have come up with so far involves iterating 
> through the PyList keeping a counter, and then using 
> PyList_DelItem(counter) on the counter when the iter item == the 
> PyObject. But this is kind of messy. I'm sure there's a cleaner way to
> do it?

You can call the 'remove' method on the list object from C just as you
could from Python, essentially.  Internally, that does essentially the
same thing you're doing here, but it does make your own code simpler.


Alex


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Oct  3 01:23:44 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 22:23:44 -0700
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <p0f432-2n1.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Alia Khouri wrote:
> Given this context, I'm mulling over strategies to encourage the
> productivity-enhancing benefits and 'joy' of python scripting to my
> developers. Of course, I'd rather be persuasive than coercive.

Simply lead by example.  Using win32all you can do wonderful stuff
with COM in order to glue various components together.  Let other
people read your code and see how simple it is.

Roger 




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sun Oct  3 17:53:41 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 17:53:41 -0400
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <3b59a80.0410031332.4493bdef@posting.google.com>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>	<1gl2s8a.1imgbyqcxntogN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3b59a80.0410031332.4493bdef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416074E5.6020601@rogers.com>

zipher wrote:
...

>Yes, your suggestions were my second, and first implemenations
>respectively.  However, both require defining a class by the 'user',
>so to speak, as opposed to letting the user simply call a 'function'
>that returns the customized class with the filter class attribute
>already set.
>
>Another reason it would be helpful to be able to wrap this in an
>expression like "Metadict(filter=int)" is because I can then use this
>as a parameter passed to other parts of the application.  (Although,
>as you suggested, I'd have to pass the name as well.)
>  
>
I could *swear* I sent you an answer which did exactly what you wanted 
just a few minutes after your first posting (at least Mozilla claims I did):

def Metadict( name, **args ):
   return type( name, (baseClassWithCommonCode,), args )

That is, a function that you call with a name for the new class, and a 
set of parameters which will be passed into the namespace of the newly 
created class, (where the newly created class is to be a sub-class of 
some specified base class), which returns the new class.  This does, 
indeed, use a meta-class (type), btw, it just doesn't use the metaclass 
hook, which is what's bothering you elsewhere.

i.e.

    fred = Metadict( 'fred', filter=int )

should work fine with that function, and it seems to meet all of your 
other criteria modulo magically knowing the name to which it's being 
assigned.

Enjoy,
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sun Oct 10 00:44:09 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 00:44:09 -0400
Subject: help me
In-Reply-To: <HO2ad.8118$UP1.2077@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>	<3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>	<mailman.4646.1097373842.5135.python-list@python.org>	<bM1ad.8006$UP1.5707@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<4168AD38.8080209@cloudthunder.com>	<4168ADAB.8080708@kzoo.edu>	<mailman.4657.1097381009.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<HO2ad.8118$UP1.2077@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4168BE19.4000702@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
> I gave an example of assigning to 'raw_input'.  Most
> likely not something you want people to change.
>
>                 Andrew
>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com

Indeed.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 15 03:04:53 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:04:53 +0200
Subject: read a files particular line
References: <cklgrm$6g3$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1glo6f0.1junoa8v16h5oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Frank Grellert <fgrellert at t-online.de> wrote:

> does anybody have an idea how to read a particular line of a file like awk's
> awk '{if( NR==12) print $0}' filename (reads lineno 12 of filename)

Standard Python library module linecache, which others suggested, is
your best bet.  itertools.islice(open('filename'), 12, 13).next() should
also work (after an 'import itertools' of course, since it, too, is a
module in the standard library) and might be faster if you'll never need
to get any other line from that file in the course of your program.


Alex


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 14 16:18:23 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:18:23 -0700
Subject: The Art of  Pickling: Binary vs Ascii difficulties
In-Reply-To: <171d9905.0410141128.3104bb95@posting.google.com>
References: <171d9905.0410141128.3104bb95@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041014131304.0966.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> I'm leaving the example at the bottom.  There is a variable, fmt,
> within the test0 function which can be changed from -1
> (pickle.HIGHEST_PROTOCOL) to 0 (ascii).  The behavior between the two
> pickle formats is not consistent.  I'm hoping for an explaination and
> a possible solution; I'd like to store my data in binary.

If you want to store data in binary, and are running on windows, you
must make sure to open all files with the binary flag, 'b'.

> 	pickle.Pickler(open(fn,'w'),fmt).dump(x)
> 	obj = pickle.Unpickler(open(fn,'r')).load()

The above should be open(fn, 'wb')... and open(fn, 'rb')... respectively.

Changing those two made all of them pass for me, and I would expect no
less.

Oh, and so that you get into the habit early; tabs are frowned upon as
indentation in Python.  The standard is 4 spaces, no tabs.

 - Josiah



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Oct 13 08:27:26 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:27:26 +0200
Subject: threads and sockets
References: <mailman.4826.1097666075.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckj6vf$85o$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Ajay wrote:

> how can i stop a server socket running in a thread other than the main
> thread? if the server socket was a local variable of the function started
> by the child thread, would calling join work?

Short answer: you can't, and join won't help. Use select on sockets, with a
timeout, or use twisted.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com  Sat Oct 30 10:37:41 2004
From: "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com (U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:37:41 GMT
Subject: PythonWin -- COM server won't change???
References: <x7xgd.55$a24.45@trndny07> <41833CFB.4050704@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <VGNgd.156$Z22.11@trndny04>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 03:04:27 -0400, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com>
wrote:
> U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles wrote:
>
>> List:
>> 
>> I made a small change to a COM server under PythonWin.
>> 
>> I unregistered, then reregistered the server.
>> 
>> But the old version is still being invoked.
>> 
>> Did I miss a step:
>> 
>> Code follows.
>> 
> Well, for example, if it's currently mapped into a process you'll have 
> to somehow get that process to reload() the module. I can't remember 
> offhand what the default is, btu I know that the only way I can pick up 
> a re-registered object under IIS is to have a web page import and then 
> reload() the module that the COM server is defined in. Kinda yucky, but 
> it works, don't know whether it'll help you.
>

AH!! . . Exactly!!

I was invoking it from a VB program, and changed it while my program was
open in the IDE.

All is well.

Thanx



From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Tue Oct 19 05:19:14 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:19:14 +0200
Subject: Recursive function to develop permutations
In-Reply-To: <RiZcd.840$5i5.671@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <RiZcd.840$5i5.671@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20041019091908.GD520@zoran.com>

Hello Steve,

> I am trying to come up with a way to develop all n-length permutations of a
> given list of values.
> ###START CODE###
> ...
>
Side note:
Please make sure that when posting to a newgroup your lines are less than
78 charcters long.

I'd split the problem (If I understand it correctly) to two problems:
1. Find all sublist of size n of l
2. Find all permutations of a list l

And using generators is always fun :-)

Something in the lines of:
#!/usr/bin/env python

def sublists(l, n):
    '''All sublists in length 'n' of 'l' '''
    assert(len(l) >= n)

    if len(l) == n: # Recursion base
        yield l
        return

    for i in range(len(l)): # Remove one item and recurse
        for sub in sublists(l[:i] + l[i+1:], n):
            yield sub

def permutations(l):
    '''All permuatations of 'l' '''
    if len(l) == 1: # Rercursion base
        yield l
        return

    for i, v in enumerate(l):
        for p in permutations(l[:i] + l[i+1:]):
            yield [v] + p

def subperm(l, n):
    '''All permutation of sublists in size 'n' of 'l' '''
    for s in sublists(l, n):
        for p in permutations(s):
            yield p

if __name__ == "__main__":
    from sys import argv

    l = range(int(argv[1]))
    n = int(argv[2])

    for p in subperm(l, n):
        print p

HTH.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at gmail.com>
http://tebeka.spymac.net
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys


From ktenney at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 10:42:09 2004
From: ktenney at gmail.com (ktenney at gmail.com)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 07:42:09 -0700
Subject: GUI to browse and select images
In-Reply-To: <18282ecb.0410051925.32df7a37@posting.google.com>
References: <1096715845.204540.281600@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
	<ucOdndmICKmPePzcRVn-rg@adelphia.com>
	<1096982750.544401.74040@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
	<18282ecb.0410051925.32df7a37@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1097073729.888027.108140@k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com>

M.E.,

Good ideas.

I'm using PIL, it's great, and getting better.
I don't know anything about wxPython other than it comes
highly recommended.

I really like the html based approach.

Could you give me (or point me to) a brief description of how
wxHTMLWindow works?

Does it provide for selecting multiple items? (required for this app)
Thanks,
Kent



From fumanchu at amor.org  Sat Oct 30 12:55:20 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:55:20 -0700
Subject: Plugin system
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32450E5@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
> > 
> > Irmen de Jong wrote:
> > > Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> > > 
> > >> How would you implement a plugin system (for a web-based 
> application)?
> > > 
> > > This is so general a question that I cannot think of 
> anything concrete to answer.
> > > Please ask again, with more detail about what you 
> want/need/have in mind.
> > 
> > Okay, the question is too open: My focus is on how you 
> would structure
> > the plugin code (directories, files) and how you would write code to
> > load these plugins.
> 
> ...Have a place for plugins
> app/plugins
> 
> ...Load the plugins on startup
> import traceback
> import os
> for fn in os.listdir('plugins'):
>     if fn[:1] != '_' and fn.split('.')[-1] in ('py', 'pyw'):
>         try:
>             globals()[fn] = \
>               __import__('plugins.%s'%fn, globals(), locals(), [fn])
>         except:
>             traceback.print_exc()
> 
> Etcetera.  May not be the best, but it will get the job done.

Right. Working example pulled from a wiki app (junct/__init__.py):

def startup(application):
    application._builtin_rules = [parsers.ParseBoldAndItalic,
                                  parsers.ParseHorizRule,
                                  parsers.TableRule(),
                                  parsers.ListRule(),
                                  parsers.ParseLinks,
##                                  parsers.ParseHighASCII,
                                  parsers.CleanBRs,
                                  parsers.UNCRule,
                                  parsers.FreezeTagRule(),
                                  ]
    application.pluginRules = []
    application.pluginCommands = []
    application.pluginTopicCommands = []
    
    application._post_plugin_rules = [parsers.LineBreakRule(),
                                      parsers.FreezeTagRule(),
                                      parsers.TopicNameRule(),
                                      ]
    
    # Run plugin startups
    plugins = application.config(u'Plugins', default={})
    for plugin, args in plugins.items():
        pluginModule = xray.modules(plugin)
        args = tuple([x.strip() for x in args.split(u',') if x.strip()])
        try:
            startFunc = pluginModule.startup
        except AttributeError:
            pass
        else:
            startFunc(application, *args)


Etcetera. 'xray' uses __import__ like Peter and Josiah mentioned.

Here's the startup function from one of the plugins:


def startup(application):
    application.pluginRules.append(DateRule())
    p = (u'    <a href="%(AbsoluteURLRoot)s/calendar.htm" title='
         u'"Show My Calendar (current week)">Calendar</a>')
    application.pluginCommands.append(p)
    disp = application.config(u'Dispatches')
    disp.update({u'calendar': u'junct.calendar.week',
                 u'month': u'junct.calendar.month',
                 u'newdate': u'junct.calendar.newdate',
                 u'makerecur': u'junct.calendar.makerecur',
                 u'recur': u'junct.calendar.showrecur',
                 u'week': u'junct.calendar.week',
                 })


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 17:46:49 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 23:46:49 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5342.1098478990.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm2z6o.12ep6cn2zjap7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
   ...
> The question then is, what are you trying to achieve with nevow's 
> templating?  (Or maybe, what do you think is achieved?)  I don't think

In this corner, one or more excellent programmers with the typical
aesthetic and artistic sense of the average programmer: lousy-minus.

In the other corner, one or more excellent graphics designers who
specialize in producing wonderful web pages mixing HTML, style sheets,
graphics, maybe a drop of javascripts for effects and usability -- with
the typical program-design ability of the average artist: lousy-minus.

How do we get great web pages out of this team?

I don't want the HTML, CSS etc to come out of the programmers' work: it
would look bad and be unusable.

I don't want any program design to come out of the artists' work: it
would be crufty and unmaintainable.

What I want is: let the programmers program, and the artists write HTML,
CSS, and the like.

Moreover, in the typical business scenario, the visuals and exact
effects of the pages will be endlessly tweaked and tinkered with,
because that's what clients, marketeers and focus on.  The program must
be able to remain stable and just reflect to the browser the current
state of the tweaking and tinkering (ideally without needing to stop and
restart the program, to help the poor artists' lives).

Nevow helps a _lot_ with this scenario.  The programmers (with all due
consultation and customer involvement, to be sure) define all the logic
and implement it in Python; _NOT_ in .HTML files, but quite away from
them.  What the HTML files need to contain is the mention of the data
sources and renderers that are to be used, out of the 'palette' supplied
by the Python code (nevow:data and nevow:render attributes, data_this
and render_that methods in Python) and markers to identify 'this is the
spot' for the renderer's benefit.

The programmers can develop all logic (with lousy looks) with their own
ugly and nastly HTML files.  The artists "just" need to write beautiful,
corporate-standards-du-jour compliant HTML, CSS, etc, with the
appropriate choice of data sources and renderers and 'this is the spot'
markup.  Each time a template file is modified, nevow will know to
reload and reparse it next time it's used, which is handy for tweaking
and tinkering purposes.

Nevow has a lot of stuff I haven't needed yet, such as most of stan (can
generate HTML w/o any templating), live-page functionality (use Python
instead of Javascript... but with a round trip every time... well, maybe
on a LAN...), freeform/formless -- maybe I won't ever need it, and it
does not necessarily fit within the above scenario all that well.  But
the templating per se seems to me to be just what I need in the above.


> anyone is achieving the separation of rendering logic from control or
> business logic with templating -- rendering logic is too sophisticated
> (in real applications) to always rely on a template.

Right, business vs presentation logic separation is done 'behind' the
template, in Python.

> In ZPT, some logic 
> remains in the template; the amount of logic is flexible, and frequently
> changes back and forth as the application is developed.
> 
> Nevow has a very strong limit to how much logic can go in the page --
> and that limit is very low.  It's not a limit of zero, since it is more
> sophisticated than something like XMLC or the DOM.  But it's not 
> terribly high.

Bingo: the fewer the better.


> Something that ZPT tries to attempt -- and not entirely successfully --
> is a separation of concerns, so that some people can work primarily in
> ZPT.  I frequently work with people who work entirely in ZPT, sometimes

And nevow lets some people (graphics artists specializing in webpages)
work primarily in HTML/CSS/maybe javascript (sigh) for effects &c.
That's exactly how I like it...

> stretching it further than it should go; but in those cases they are 
> able to move forward with ZPT, and later we can cooperatively refactor
> the code.  If I'm the only one comfortable going into the Python (which
> is usually the case), I'm not a bottleneck.  I'm not sure this is 
> possible in Nevow.

I believe it's not -- by design.  If program logic must be modified,
programmers (able to work in Python, not a terribly high bar btw) will
be the ones modifying it.  I like the idea.


> Now, there might be a valid compromise where a more declarative template
> language is acceptable in my sort of situation.  Indeed, there is a 
> problem where control and rendering logic become mixed, which is part of

Absolute agreement here: such mixing is a problem.  Nevow avoids it.

> why other people aren't comfortable going into the Python code (though
> there's other reasons, like they aren't familiar with the domain objects
> or other pieces of the system).  In some ways, I'd like to see a 
> templating system where I can call the template from my control code 
> with a minimal, fixed interface, and that there is a small bit of Python
> code that does the heavier lifting of making that data acceptable for

As long as said small bit of Python code is in a Python module, I'm fine
with that.  Normal inheritance easily lets you split that way the class
that works behind a nevow template: any data supplier or renderer which
is rich or complicated may be stashed away in a base class somewhere
else, and the actual class driving the page need only "little bits" of
overriding/wrapping or adding new simple methods.  If you only work with
graphic artists/page designers who are a little bit comfortable with
Python, they can work on retouching the easier, front-side parts, while
all the heavy and please-don't-touch parts are elsewhere and clearly
marked as such.  Other such refactorings may quite well be possible; the
"pure" programmers-on-one-side, artists-on-the-other arrangement is
surely not the only one that Nevow enables... just the one that I think
I need, and that I've seen no other templating system enable so well.

> the template.  To a degree that's already true.  OTOH, I don't know if
> it's helpful to code alternating row colors for a table in Python, when
> it will be necessarily far away from the table that needs the coloring.

No, in my worldview that's CSS's job.  Python code only need to emit the
table rows with alternate (CSS) class attributes.  The existing sequence
renderer supplied by nevow's infrastructure enables that, btw: write
more than one nevow:pattern="item" tags and render_sequence will render
them in round-robin style.

 
> Anyway, I'm very suspicious of any system which limits the programmer
> for their own good.

Ah, you see the guy coding the HTML/CSS/etc as "the programmer".  I
don't.  The world has even too many webpages made by programmers: it
shows.  Let's have some more made by people who know how to do pleasing
and usable graphic designs: they don't need to be programmers (at least
in the "pure" arrangement), they do need to be good artists.  Meanwhile
the programmers may have all the aesthetic sense they're famous for,
without thereby spoiling the output pages...


Alex


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 21:10:35 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:10:35 -0300
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <864d37090410131810213ad5f5@mail.gmail.com>

> > Besides that, Linux is Posix compliant and emulates Unix
> > system calls to a large extend, and that also makes C a
> > natural choice.
> 
> Not sure I follow on that point.  Any low level language that
> can deal with a C "struct" and byte-addressible memory would be
> fine.

Well, Unix itself was written in C, and a good part of the C standard
library maps naturally to (or at least helps to implement) functions
that are mandatory in a Posix-compliant OS. This does not meant that
other languages cant be used; it only means that C is a natural
choice.

Of course, you can provide a C-like interface for a Python program
(for example). But a OS written in pure Python would make a much
better use of the language if it provides a Pythonic interface. I
believe we can agree on this point, dont you think?

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From belred1 at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 10 12:09:06 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:09:06 GMT
Subject: Sorting and list comprehension
In-Reply-To: <ed89f8f2.0410100041.71c20541@posting.google.com>
References: <ed89f8f2.0410100041.71c20541@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41695F1B.5090606@yahoo.com>

Tran Tuan Anh wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to do the followings, but I am quite new to Python hence
> have not figured it out how...
> 
> salary = dictionary
> salary["Bob"] = 11
> salary["Marry"] = 4
> salary["me"]= 45
> 
> How can I have a sort_value() function acts like this:
> result = sortvalue(salary)
> result = ["Marry","Bob","me"]
> 
> In sort, I would like to sort the key according to the values.
> 


i would do it this way which follows the DSU pattern.

 >>> salary = {}
 >>> salary['Bob'] = 11
 >>> salary['Marry'] = 4
 >>> salary['me'] = 45
 >>> tmp = [(v, k) for k, v in salary.items()]
 >>> tmp.sort()
 >>> print [k for v, k in tmp]
['Marry', 'Bob', 'me']
 >>>

bryan


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Oct 11 20:01:19 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:01:19 -0000
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmm29m.8la.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<mailman.4729.1097535413.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncmm7mf.d76.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <mailman.4729.1097535413.5135.python-list at python.org>, Steven Bethard wrote:
> Unfortunately, your "after" function is probably provided by your framework, 
> but if that framework was written a little more Python-friendly, the after 
> function would work like unittest.TestCase.assertRaises, e.g.
> 
> def after(sec, func, *args, **kwds):
>     # wait sec seconds
>     ...
>     # call func
>     func(*args, **kwds)
> 
> This would let you write the code above as:
> 
> after(10, sprite.move, 0, 5)
> after(15, sprite2.rotate, 30)
> after(20, sprite.scale, 120, 120)
> after(22, sprite2.move, 50, 50)
> after(22, sound1.play)
> after(23, sprite.move, 0, 0)
> after(26, sound1.stop)
> 
> which is actually slightly more concise (character-wise) than the lambda
> code, and doesn't force you to create a new lambda function to do
> something someone already created a function for.

Ahh, what clever solutions dynamic typing can afford. =) Very nice.

> Again, I realize that in many cases having functions written like this is
> not possible because the functions are defined by a framework, not the
> coder, but if you happen to be one of the ones *writing* the framework,
> you can take advantage of Python's *args and **kwds syntax to make this
> kind of thing easier.

Even if modifying the framework function is not an option, you can still
accomplish similar results with an argument-binding function:

def bind(func, *args, **kwds):
    return lambda: func(*args, **kwds)

after(10, bind(sprite.move, 0, 5))
after(15, bind(sprite2.rotate, 30))
after(20, bind(sprite.scale, 120, 120))
...

Or, in the "more readable" Python3k-enforced style:

def bind(func, *args, **kwds):
    def doit():
        return func(*args, **kwds)
    return doit

after(10, bind(sprite.move, 0, 5))
...

(sorry, couldn't resist <g>)

-- 
 .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
        "talking about music is like dancing about architecture."


From rupole at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 17 16:44:43 2004
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:44:43 -0400
Subject: detecting enabled network interfaces in win32
References: <a8dfce8c.0410162113.545a74bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4172d7b1$1_2@127.0.0.1>

If you have pywin32 installed, you can get the info thru WMI:

import win32com.client
wmi=win32com.client.GetObject('winmgmts:')
adapters=wmi.InstancesOf('win32_networkadapter')
for adapter in adapters:
    for p in adapter.Properties_:
        print p.Name, p.Value

     hth
         Roger

"Matthew K Jensen" <matt.torment at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:a8dfce8c.0410162113.545a74bb at posting.google.com...
> In one of my "because I can" projects, I want to be able to see the
> enabled network interfaces on a machine. I have no clue as to how to
> do this. Any suggestions? 




From cce at clarkevans.com  Wed Oct 13 15:09:20 2004
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:09:20 -0400
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <10mqqdho6uojj6a@corp.supernews.com>
References: <cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4q1.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.4760.1097598524.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mqqdho6uojj6a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041013190920.GC47197@prometheusresearch.com>

On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:47:56AM -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
| Except that the Python philosophy is that overall, the greatest clarity 
| is achieved by having a single obvious way to do things.

When doing coding that uses alot of callbacks, use of lambda for
tiny, nameless, single-use expressions is the "single obvious way to
do something".

Assume for a moment the following programming costs:

  2m  Minting a name, that is, finding a name that is not 'foo'
      which semantically adds to the readability and maintainability
      of the code.
        
  30s Verifying that a function name is not used more than once to 
      verify that changing its definition, or if it is reused, 
      making sure all the places where a change would affect is OK.

In one of my files, I've got 20 or so lambdas, typically only a few
characters to plug-in a computation.  You're asking me to pay a 40
minute price just to mint names in this file?  Then, I've had, over
the past year about 20 edits on that file, some of which change a
few of these lambdas, say 2 changes per edit on average.  That's
another 20 minutes.  So, over the last year, in this one file alone,
not having lambdas would have cost me an additional hour of time!
I've got 2 largish projects, each averaging about 20 files, so
that's about 40 hours of time chewed up with small efficiency hits.
Or, about $4,000 of billable time.   I'd rather keep the money or
take a vacation, thank you very much.

I use Python beacuse it is a horribly efficient language for me to
write software with; it is efficient beacuse I have the flexibiltiy
to use several different constructs depending on which is more
clearly expresses the intent of the developer. While lambda is a
small part of this effiency, it is a factor.  It clearly expresses a
simple, nameless single chunk of code that is never reused.

Propose another construct that has these features, and I'll gladly
use it instead of lambda.

Best,

Clark


From emayo at home.com  Wed Oct 27 15:04:46 2004
From: emayo at home.com (Pater Maximus)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:04:46 -0400
Subject: Can not get urllib.urlopen to work
References: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <M72dnXOKVIrebOLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>

More information:

I am running Python 2.3.4, Windows 2000 Pro, along with Norton Internet
Security Professional. I do not get any messages from Norton.




From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 28 00:40:59 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:40:59 -0400
Subject: Collating Text and Images
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5592.1098909346.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5592.1098909346.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wQ_fd.33$931.9@lakeread01>

Greg Lindstrom wrote:

> I have an interesting problem.  I have a (one) text file containing multiple
> reports.  I have multiple TIF files, one for each page in the report file.
> What I would like to do is merge the two files into one print job so that I
> get a text page then the corresponding image, then the next text page, then
> the next corresponding image, etc.  Currently we have 2 people doing the
> collation by hand every day; this would save am immense amount of labor at
> our shop. The work is being performed on an HP-9000 running UNIX and I can
> read and process the text file, but can not figure out how to insert the
> images into the print stream.  Can anyone help me out?
> 
> Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
> NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com
> 
> "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.
> 
The ReportLab open source kit is well capable of doing this, and will 
make your reports look better as well, as long as PDF is an acceptable 
output format. (You could use a fixed-pitch font if you really want the 
reports to look as much as possible like they do now).

See http://www.reportlab.org/

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From janeaustine50 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  5 08:36:54 2004
From: janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 05:36:54 -0700
Subject: - Re: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted Data
	Chunk Efficiently
Message-ID: <ba1e306f.0410050436.59d455bf@posting.google.com>

Peter L. Hansen wrote:
> 
> Jane Austine wrote:
> > I have student_names and their scores, which are between 0..100.
> > 
> > I want to retrieve in the sorted order in terms of score, Nth
> > student's name to N+10th student's name along with their scores.
> > (suppose a web page showing top 10 students and there are "next page"
> > link and if you follow the link there shows next top 10 students with
> > "prev" and "next" page links.)
> > 
> > The list is dynamically resized -- elements are added or deleted. The
> > list could go fairly long enough that pulling all the data on memory
> > at once is not a good choice.
> 
> "Fairly long enough"?  I imagine you'd have to have thousands of
> students before just doing the simplest thing (ignore performance
> and read the whole list) would become a noticable problem.

First of all, thank you for replying me.

Yes, I do have more than a thousand.

> 
> It's rare in an environment like the web, with all the user and
> network delays that are present, that optimizing at the level
> you are trying to do is worth the effort.
>

Yes. Especially when there are CPU load limits(process going on like a
few seconds using more than 10% will get warning) on the server, and
it is shared among a few users(using a web hosting service).
 
> > What algorithm and data/file structure are most efficient? (the
> > environment is "cgi" based web environment)
> 
> And unless mod_python is involved, CGI adds yet another significant
> delay, masking any slight difference in performance from the optimal
> approach and the simplistic one.
>

True. So the situation is not very good, and that's why I need a
clever scheme. :)

> > Simplest approach would be using btree from bsddb. 
> 
> Nope, simplest would be just use a list and ignore the theoretical
> but unnoticable performance issues.  Remember, the actual memory
> allocation and manipulations of the list elements happens in C code,
> not in Python, so it is very fast.
> 
> > What can I do instead? What data structure allows you to access
> > nth..n+10th data from the sorted list in a constant time?
> 
> If you've got more than 1000 students, it _might_ be worth
> analyzing this further. :-)
> 

Actually, it's not exactly students. They are some kind of elements
and they have a few attributes(columns) like timestamp and etc, and
can be sorted by a few columns(single key sorting though).

Most of the time I suppose the lists would grow up to 10000 ~ 90000
elements.

-Jane


From pcooke at philc.net  Sat Oct  9 15:43:02 2004
From: pcooke at philc.net (PhilC)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:43:02 -0400
Subject: 2D height map to 3D model?
Message-ID: <skfgm0pev6ld2p6k7n2e9q1tt442kselh9@4ax.com>

Hi Folks,

I'm looking to write a Python script that will take a 2D BMP (or
height map) and translate it into a 3D model in OBJ format.

Something of a challenge for me but if it were easy life would be
boring :)

Does anyone know if such a script already exists?
Or any pointers would be appreciated.

Thanks,

PhilC


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 26 00:54:47 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:54:47 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <Edkfd.18473$SW3.6071@fed1read01>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-54474F.18411025102004@localhost>
	<20041026024802.GA3581@unpythonic.net>
	<mailman.5477.1098760532.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Edkfd.18473$SW3.6071@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <1098766487.22370.209.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 00:12 -0400, Steve Holden wrote:

> Come on, the answer should clearly have been seven. Don't try your trick 
> with ne, buddy. I know octal is the only true number system.

Microsoft Bob assures me that octal isn't a word, but suggested
'octopus' instead.  My program was about ferrets, so I think you are
mistaken.

Octopus hugs,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From dubnerm-news at mail.ru  Sun Oct 10 12:15:01 2004
From: dubnerm-news at mail.ru (Michael P. Dubner)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:15:01 +0400
Subject: integer type conversion problem/question
In-Reply-To: <slrncmf2hc.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
References: <slrncmf2hc.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
Message-ID: <41696005.1080902@mail.ru>

Faheem Mitha wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm not sure what would be more appropriate, so I'm ccing it to both
>alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ and comp.lang.python, with followup to
>alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++.
>
>While working with a random number generator in the context of a mixed
>Python/C++ programming problem. I encountered a vexing type
>conversion problem.
>
>Briefly, the situation is as follows.
>
>I have a integer in Python (Python integers are implemented as C long
>ints).
>
>This is passed to a function in C++ which converts it (supposedly) to
>an unsigned int, modifies it and then passes it back to Python. This
>is done since the random number generator uses unsigned ints.
>
>Python attempts to convert it to a Python integer, and if it is too
>large, converts it into a Python long. (Both integer and long are
>Python types).
>
>Now, my program crashes, because at some point the unsigned integer
>passed to Python becomes too long to be represented as an (unsigned)
>int, and I get an overflow error.
>
>OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
>
>An example of such a number is 2321871520. Python thinks this should
>be a long, but my C++ code seems to handle it as an unsigned int, and
>passes it to Python as such. When Python converts it to a long and
>tries to pass it back, I get a runtime error.
>
>Python gives:
>
>In [1]: 2321871520
>Out[1]: 2321871520L
>
>
>I tried compiling the following fragment of code (header ommitted) and
>got a compiler warning:  warning: this decimal constant is unsigned
>only in ISO C90.
>
>I'm not sure what to make of this.
>
>*******************************
>int main()
>{
>  unsigned int a = 2321871520;
>  cout << a << endl;
>  return 0;
>}
>*********************************
>
>I find all this a little strange. Since in theory Python ints are
>larger than C ints (since Python ints are implemented as C long ints),
>there should be (in theory) no problem converting C unsigned ints to
>Python integers (corresponding to C long integers) but in practice
>there is. Can anyone enlighten me as to this puzzling situation?
>Thanks.
>
>I'd be happy to give more details as necessary. I realise the above
>may not be entirely clear, but excessive detail may be confusing.
>Please CC me on any reply. Thanks.
>
>                                                          Faheem.
>  
>
Use PyLong_AsUnsignedLong/PyLong_FromUnsignedLong instead of 
PyInt_AsLong/PyInt_FromLong.
In that case you'll only get OverflowError for numbers greater that 2**32-1.

--
Best regards,
Michael Dubner (dubnerm.at.mindless.com)
Brainbench MVP/HTML+JavaScript (http://www.brainbench.com)
PS: Sorry for my English



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 19:16:01 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:16:01 -0700
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:

>I think who got it righter depends the respective ratios of buggy code; I'd be
>not be surprised if only a fraction of python code that simply attempts to run
>an external command with certain arguments (and no shell preprocessing) worked
>correctly.
>
>I appreciate your point but I suspect that at the moment many people are
>extremely likely to do the wrong thing, because it's much more obvious than
>the right thing.
>  
>

Personally, I suspect that the number of people who're running external 
commands that are complex enough for these escaping issues to matter is 
rather small.  The vast majority of uses of os.system() (IMHO) are very 
simple cases with one or two simple arguments.  Relatively few of them 
involve filenames that contain spaces, or other things that might cause 
problems with the naive os.system('cmd %s %s' % (arg1, arg2)) sort of 
approach.

At least, *I've* never personally found myself in a situation where I 
wanted to execute an external command, and in which I needed to worry 
about escaping/quoting the command string.  It's an open question 
whether your experience is more typical than mine, I guess...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 19:30:56 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 16:30:56 -0700
Subject: convert string to list
References: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410141530.4954c4e6@posting.google.com>

Jochen Hub <jhub at gwdg.here_simple_one_dot.de> wrote in message news:<ckj5ie$tra$1 at gwdu112.gwdg.de>...
> Hi,
> 
> I am a real beginner in Python and I was wondering if there is a way to 
> convert a string (which contains a list) to a "real" list.
> 
> I need this since I would like to give a list as an argument to my 
> Python script from the bash:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> import sys
> argument1 = sys.argv[1]
> thelist = ???(argument1)
> 
> and then call the script from the bash like this
> 
> thescript.py ["A","B","C"]
> 
> Thanks you,
> Jochen


Other posters have mentioned difficulties with what the shell will do
to your command line. If you can get it as a single string - I've
written a module that will turn a string like that back into a list. I
use it for reading lists from config files. It will properly handle
the quotes etc.....

It's called listwuote and you can find it at
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html#listquote

Regards,

Fuzzy


From nick at craig-wood.com  Tue Oct 12 13:30:11 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 17:30:11 GMT
Subject: Core dump with increased recursionlimit
References: <slrncmn6h5.739.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<mailman.4748.1097588504.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncmo3k6.e0c.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

<exarkun at divmod.com> wrote:
>  On 12 Oct 2004 09:29:58 GMT, Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> wrote:
> >I've just discovered that my python (Python 2.3.4 from debian package
> > 2.3.4-1 running on debian testing x86 + linux 2.4.26) core dumps when
> > I set recursionlimit very high and do lots of recursion.
> 
>  You probably have a buggy version of glibc.  There is a version
>  which automatically sets the stack limit to a fairly small value (I
>  forget what the limit is exactly, 2 MB perhaps).  If this is the
>  case and you strace your program, you will see a setrlimit() call
>  near the beginning of the run.

Spot on!

...
getrlimit(RLIMIT_STACK, {rlim_cur=RLIM_INFINITY, rlim_max=RLIM_INFINITY}) = 0
setrlimit(RLIMIT_STACK, {rlim_cur=2044*1024, rlim_max=RLIM_INFINITY}) = 0
...

So its 1 page less than 2 MB.

Reading a bit more - this didn't affect my test C program because it
didn't use pthreads.

  http://sources.redhat.com/ml/bug-glibc/2003-06/msg00190.html

I'll look out for a glibc upgrade!

Thanks
-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 27 19:03:18 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:03:18 GMT
Subject: how to config non-Lib\site-packages\ distutils windows install
	destination directory?
Message-ID: <4180201d.939917990@news.oz.net>

I'd like to override the default

   d:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\

destination, at least as an option. I have used installshield in the past,
which gives extensive control over just about everything, if you want to go
to the trouble. Is "the trouble" in this case modifying distutils?


Non un-related BTW (/rant ;-):

when I want to set up foo, I'd like to type

    setup foo

or maybe

    python setup.py -some -opts foo

but I really dislike the idea of setup.py being something foo-specific
that I write. I should be able to do setup foo and setup bar in the
same directory if I want to. IMO it's like creating a make.py or gcc.py
for each foo, bar, or whatever, and having to do it in separate directories
just to avoid name clash. Ick.

Generic tool names should invoke generic functionality IMO. I'd like foo.mak and
foo.cfg etc. to be where foo-specific stuff goes. If there needs to be separate
options for admin and plain user, then the admin context foo config can specify
how/whether to handle the rest and the rules for where to look.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr  Sat Oct 16 23:28:57 2004
From: sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr (Stelios Xanthakis)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:28:57 -0700
Subject: ANN: wrapper GUI for pygtk, pyqt, wxpython and tkinter
Message-ID: <newscache$jkto5i$eri$1@asterix.tee.gr>

Hi.

This is the same GUI library that was announced a week ago, but now
it also has a wrapper for Tkinter, on-line documentation and a mailing list.

Check out the screenshot at the homepage:
    http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/twgui/index.html

as well as the new screenshot which also shows the tkinter wrapper:
    http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/twgui/pr.gif
(gotta love the tkinter tree)

The library is still minimal and suitable only for small python
applications which should run everywhere.


Thanks,

Stelios


From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct  5 08:08:08 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:08:08 GMT
Subject: Performance boosts (was: New to Python: Features)
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<0Er8d.3258$M05.2333@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6kca32-egv.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <0Er8d.3258$M05.2333 at newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Andrew Dalke  <dalke at dalkescientific.com> wrote:
			.
		[much else]
			.
			.
>Then say so.  There are Python to C converters which at best
>give about a 5% speed boost, so the answer to your original
>question would be "yes" but also not be the answer to your
>real question.
			.
			.
			.
I don't want newcomers to read this in isolation and
conclude that the "speed" of Python falls far short
of that of C.  There are several ways to accelerate
Python-coded executables; some of them, in at least
some circumstances, give increases that far surpass
5% of the original "speed".  At the same time, serious
work in this area doesn't reduce responsibly to a
single figure of merit, so we're all reluctant to
sound like the detergent commercials that promise
"13% new and improved" or whatever it is they say.


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Oct 19 11:36:33 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:36:33 -0400
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <41753481.4080502@bellsouth.net>

Jonathan Ellis wrote:

>Peter L Hansen wrote:
>  
>
>>Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>The benefits of static typing, not least among which is the vastly
>>>superior ease of creating tools that "understand" the language,
>>>outweigh python's advantages in an environment when many people are
>>>writing a lot of code.
>>>      
>>>
>>While it appears true that it is easier to develop certain
>>tools for statically typed languages, it's not at all apparent
>>that this small benefit outweighs the very significant advantages
>>that Python brings to large-scale development, and to large-team
>>development.
>>    
>>
>
>Almost four years ago I started working at a company with about 500
>kloc of Java code.  Thanks largely to tool support I was able to get in
>and start fixing bugs my first day (this is without significant prior
>Java experience).  A more-experienced co-worker pointed me in the right
>direction, and the IDE did the rest.  ("Find definition," "Find
>references.")  
>
I've never worked on a code base that big, but something that I'm 
finding useful is incorporating ctags into vim.  You can put your cursor 
on a piece of code and hit C-] in vim and it takes you to where that 
"code thing" (either a class or an instance, etc) and it finds the 
definition if it's been ctagged.  Better than grep, maybe not as good as 
the GUI support you mentioned - and I haven't tried to see if there is a 
"find references" type of functionality.

<snip the rest>

Jeremy Jones
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From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Oct  5 16:11:56 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:11:56 -0400
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka retiring """ and ''')
References: <20041004215641.266008304.whereU@now.com>
	<mailman.4354.1096992685.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10m5r2gd2u38898@corp.supernews.com>
	<4162f2c1$0$202$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <MAwYBls/KHPI089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <4162f2c1$0$202$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk>,
Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:
>Jeff Shannon wrote:
>> Russell Nelson wrote:
>> ISTM that these
>> elaborate Mandis-quote schemes may significantly reduce the odds of
>> needing to escape a string literal, but the cost (in clarity,
>> transparency, and most importantly, ability to manipulate your code in
>> anything other than an advanced, complying editor) is pretty high.  I
>> find '''triple quotes''' a lot easier to understand/explain than this
>> scheme of defining arbitrary delimiters.
>
>In fact, the triple quotes are just special cases of the Mandis quotes,
>and would still be legal. No?
>
>
>'''Hello world'''

   However the sequence of distinguishing bytes making up
one end of a Mandis quote is "possibly null" (viz. original
post) so this could either mean

        "Hello world"
or
        "'Hello world'"

depending.

   When I read _The Humane User Interface_ I came away with
the impression that the UI would be great for
non-programming-users, but lousy for programming-users,
because of the meta-stuff that programmers routinely deal
with.

        Regards.        Mel.


From andrew.stuart at xse.com.au  Sat Oct 16 05:00:52 2004
From: andrew.stuart at xse.com.au (andrew blah)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 02:00:52 -0700
Subject: How can I get text of the body (payload) of an email?
References: <1097890188.684790.103490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5031.1097891487.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1097917252.192227.265990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I'm puzzled.  Josiah suggested that this would allow me to get the
payload of an email message.

body = message.split('\r\n\r\n', 1)[1]

As I understand it, the headers of an email are terminated by a blank
line, after which comes the message payload.  A blank line being
represented by \r\n\r\n

After trying Josiah's above suggestion on many emails and failing to
get it to work, I found that in fact the following works:

self.raw_data.split('\n\n', 1)[0]

But this doesn't agree with my understanding of the RFC822 email
format, which is that the blank line should be represented by \r\n\r\n

Can anyone suggest where my understanding is wrong?
Thanks

Andrew Stuart



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Thu Oct 14 20:24:39 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:24:39 -0700
Subject: ANN: curses-extra 0.2
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.14.21.52.29.434183@cut.me.sideralis.net>
References: <pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050@cut.me.sideralis.net>
	<4edc17eb.0410141118.6d3ac74d@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.10.14.21.52.29.434183@cut.me.sideralis.net>
Message-ID: <1097799880.12092.361.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 23:52 +0200, Riccardo Galli wrote:

> Do you (or others) know what is the best module available for console
> graphic in DOS ?

It's been years since I've looked at it, but DJGPP had DOS console graphics
support that worked well (at the time).

http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/

I don't know if Python compiles with that compiler (I would expect so),
but if it does, then I imagine this might be a starting point (if you
were able to wrap the graphics library for Python).

Seems like a lot of work for that platform though.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 16:05:21 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:05:21 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5153.1098150302.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1098194866.552318.234710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5183.1098208117.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glxbjm.3z1g3hhxomoxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> > Heh.  "Large" depends on a lot of things, particularly connectedness,
> > but I really can't picture 10k being large under any circumstances.
> 
> Ok, so what is large?  How many orders of magnitude larger than 10k
> lines does it take for a piece of software to be large?  And why should
> you be the judge?

My definition of a large software system is: a system that cannot
sensibly be developed and maintained by just one developer, but requires
a team of developers.  Among the factors defining where the boundaries
lie are such things as deployment issues (how many platforms, how
diverse), function points, analysis/requirements, etc, etc, but SLOC
(properly counted/normalized lines of code) are the main determinant.

For a reasonably experienced programmer, with decent tools, and without
hair-raising problems of deployment, optimization, continuous fast
changes to specs, etc, etc, 10k SLOC should be within the threshold of
"can be sensibly developed and maintained by one person"; 100k SLOC
won't be; the threshold is somewhere in-between.  Of course, if you're
talking freshman programming trainees, or special problems of the
various sorts mentioned, the thresholds do shift downwards.


> I'd let it slip to medium, but I wouldn't say that the project was small.
> Small is something you can do in a weekend because you've been putting
> it off.  Small is something a newb to the language can do in a week
> while they are learning the language.

OK, that's your definition of "small", I guess.  I don't know that
there's a commonly accepted one.  On the other hand, moving from a
project that can all fit in your head, one you can fully develop and
actively maintain by yourself, to a team situation, _is_ a crucial
threshold, as teams have such different strengths and problems than
individuals on their own; and the "Large Scale" monicker is typically
tagged onto projects requiring a team.

We can quibble about special cases (is a 2-people team, with one of them
developing half-time and the rest of the time out selling the system,
comparable to a more typical case of 6-10 people working full-time on
development and maintenance of a system?), but that's always so for
taxonomies, and doesn't add much to the discussion IMHO.


Alex


From tundra at tundraware.com  Mon Oct 18 23:33:37 2004
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 23:33:37 EDT
Subject: [Python-Dev] ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <41743f3a.161450203@news.oz.net>
References: <20041018104036.0A2B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<2EE12B0A-212F-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com>
	<20041018120633.0A3D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5133.1098129122.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41743f3a.161450203@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <ofee42-ss22.ln1@eskimo.tundraware.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:51:58 -0200, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:20:46 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>>>I think the syntax looks good, but as per a thread in python-list, you
>>>>>cannot discover the order of class variables by any solution (metaclass
>>>>>or otherwise), due to the fact that they become part of the class
>>>>>dictionary; which is arbitrarily unordered.
>>>>>
>>>>>If ordering is important to a user, one could have an optional
>>>>>__order__
>>>>>attribute that gives the list of items in-order.
>>>>
>>>>That's not quite true.  TypedAttribute instances and iniSection's
>>>>__new__ could have serial numbers.
>>
>>TypedAttributes store their own sequence numbers using a simple
>>counter. Bengt Richter also came up with a clever trick to retrieve a
>>list from the code object itself (using the inspect module and the
>>co_names member). It's very powerful, but it can't check all
>>situations, but I'm sure that it would work for most real world
>>situations.
>>
>>As far as INI files are concerned, order is good but not essential. It
>>helps people that are going to read, or manually edit the config file,
>>and avoids some surprised such as in "what has happened here?" when
>>things seems to appear "out of order".
>>
> 
> Has anyone discussed using the csv module as the basic file interface for config data?
> 
> Windows sort of migrated away from actual .INI files to using the registry, and a
> registry entry with the name of a real ini file can divert apparent operations on
> the file to operations on the registry (for windows apps using the windows API).
> 
> Order does matter in M$ view of INI files. IOW you _can_ (advisability of using ini
> sections that way in another thing ;-) retrieve multiple sym value info from a section
> such as
> 
> [section]
> sym=value1
> sym=value2
> 
> Basic usage is simple and ok, but a clean general info repository it is not, IMO.
> The win32 API for reading and writing INI files is the family of "profile string"
> operations, i.e., this gives an idea of what you are dealing with:

At the risk of sounding like I'm flogging my own software (I am ;), I'd
encourage people to take another look at my 'tconfpy' package:

      https://www.tundraware.com/Software/tconfpy/

It has a number of the features people want already implemented and in-place
including:

- Type AND Value enforcement.  You can insist that a value be integer and
   either within a specified range or one of a list of values.  Strings
   can be limited in length, and so forth.  The documentation only describes
   this for int, string, floating, and complex numbers, but type checking
   should work for any derived type because the placeholder in the symbol
   table just looks for an entry of 'type' - at least I think this is so,
   I've not actually checked it myself.

- Order is made immaterial (up to a point) because [something] introduces
   a *namespace*.  So:

      x=1 # Config var 'x' is set to 1

     [FOO]
     x=1 # Config var 'FOO.x' is set to 1

- The ability to define config vars as ReadOnly

- The ability to "prime" the symbol table before calling the config parser
   so that things are initialized in a way that guarantees sanity from the POV
   of the calling program.

- Conditionals and Directives that allow large, complex configs to be
   decomposed into smaller, more reusable pieces.  This is really useful.
   You can define a systemwide 'standard' configuration that an app reads
   in at startup.  Then it can look for a local configuration (either
   with a second parser call or having the local config ".include" the
   master copy first).  Variables are processed on a 'last one wins'
   basis unless it is declared to be ReadOnly, so the user can override
   any default values in their own config as permitted by the application.

- The ability to escape the parser so that arbitrary literal text can appear
   in a config file where appropriate.

- Local variables with string substitution throughout the config

- The ability to 'template' config variables.  Say, for whatever reason,
   you have a bunch of config information wherein there needs to be an entry
   for each user, but the variable names are the same in each case.  You can
   predefine a template for each common variable that will be used to enforce
   type and value each time that variable shows up in a different context:

     [USER1]
     Name = ...
     EmployeeID = ...

     [USER2]
     Name = ...
     EmployeeID = ...

    You merely define templates for 'Name' and 'EmployeeID' and they are
    applied when the config parser starts to process the USER1 and USER2
    stanzas.  In effect, this extends the configuration engine in a way
    that allows complex, data-centric configurations to be built with type/
    value enforcement.

There are a few warts that I wish were different, but it does work pretty
well and is here now.  At the moment, the license differentiates between
commercial and non-commercial use of the package, so I don't know how that
plays in the Python view of things ...

You can see a toy example at:

     https://www.tundraware.com/Software/tconfpy/example.cfg





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From listserver at tdw.net  Wed Oct 27 12:03:39 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:03:39 +0100
Subject: FTP file creation date
Message-ID: <024a01c4bc3e$865220a0$ccbefea9@twilliams>



"[ EuGeNe ]" <eugene at boardkulture.com> wrote in message
news:de8687be.0410270727.12eb2d3b at posting.google.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I would like to write a script that downloads one file from a ftp
> server if the file creation date satisfy a condition.
>
> I can't figure out how to find from a ftp server what is the creation
> date of the file (using python).
>

Here's a snippet that does something based on size,   the date can be
retrieved by adapting the file.split() part in DoStuff ()
(adapted from a snippet I found while googling once,  I forget who to
attribute it to - sorry )

from ftplib import FTP
# import os, sys

files = ['file1.zip','file2.zip']
get_list = []
global progress

def handleDownload(block):
    global progress
    file.write(block)
    progress = progress + len(block)
    print '\b'*20,progress,

def doStuff(file):
    size = file.split()[4]
    name = file.split()[8]
    #
    # build a list of files to be downloaded using.
    #     get_list.append(name)
    #

    if name in files :
        # if something else matches
        get_list.append(name)

site = FTP('somedomain.com')
#site.set_debuglevel(1)
msg = site.login()  #login (and store
site.cwd('/pub')
site.retrlines('LIST', doStuff)

for x in range(len(get_list)):
    global progress
    progress = 0
    fname = get_list[x]
    print "downloading", fname
    file = open(('c:\\download\\' + fname), 'wb')
    site.retrbinary( "RETR " + fname,  handleDownload )
    print
    file.close()

site.quit()



From zathras at thwackety.com  Mon Oct  4 15:43:51 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:43:51 +0100
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4161a7e3$0$80627$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>

Arich Chanachai wrote:
>>>How hard/easy is it to extend the Python syntax?
> I was thinking Scheme.
...
> Really???I?read?that?Python?was?just?like?Scheme?in?that?it?had?macro?
> facilities.

Ahh... I see where you're coming from. Unfortunately you've been misled on
this point - python does not have those sorts of macros. As a result if you
want to extend the language, ...

> :Local overhead???  Private branch???  How come?  I'm extending the
> language not adding another Python interpreter.

... the only way to do this is to modify the python interpreter itself,
which is why I gave the reference I did (since I've had experience lately
of doing this :-). ie you can't do this and not add another Python
interpreter.

The reason I suggested this is an overhead is because if you did that you
would end up with your own customised version of the python compiler-
something it sounds like you don't want. (not suprising) Furthermore there
aren't any tutorials that I'm aware of on doing this, which is why I
pointed you at one example of doing this :) (If only because it lets you
know what sort of what hoops you need to jump through to do it without
using a preprocessor, tokeniser, etc)

As a result your options are:
   * Implement your own pre-processor - either using the tokeniser module or
     using a full blown parser like PLY, SPARK, etc.
   * Implement the functionality you want using usual classes. You may or
     may not like that approach.
   * Find an existing macro pre-processor and modify it to do what you want.

Personally I'd choose option 2 here.

> Not sure I understand you here.  I want to implement messages like in
> ObjC where if you send a msg to an object and that object does know what
> to do with it, it can send the obj automatically to another object which
> might know what to do with it.

I've not used ObjC - a code fragment with a brief explanation would
probably help. (That description matches too many possible use cases
and solutions... :) Posting a fragment *might* also jog someone's memory
to be able to say "that's already implemented -- here" :-)

> Anyhow, there are other reasons as well.

Without knowing these it's difficult to help more. (And since you're asking
for tutorials it's not clear at all where to point you to without seeing
something concrete.

Regards,


Michael.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 24 04:39:17 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:39:17 +0200
Subject: key argument for max?
References: <mailman.5265.1098376117.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm27ma.114npm917y3imlN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<5d83790c.0410232150.3912fd7f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gm5oy6.fo43nr25siceN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com> wrote:
   ...
> > Unfortunately, no.  I think that the excellent key= optional argument to
> > sort should be extended to every order-related Python tidbit; min and
> > max are examples, but so should the heapq module's functions.
   ...
> It should definitely be pursued for Py2.5.   I'm the one who shot it
> down the first time it came up and now wish that it had gotten a full
> hearing.

Yeah, I remember well.

> The issue was political.  Getting a key= argument for sort() was a big
> win; however, proposing to propagate the idea could have jeopardized
> everything by arousing the ire of the gathering anti-change movement.

You and I disagreed very intensely about it at the time, as you'll
recall.  I'm not sure if you now really _do_ wish it had gotten a full
hearing, as you said in the first paragraph, or still think it was a
politically preferable move to avoid it, as you appear to imply here.
No matter, I guess, what's past is past.  I'm sure you realize the way
you moved to prevent that hearing was the main reason I stepped away
from python-dev afterwards.


> P.S.  The heapq module's new nsmallest() and nlargest() functions are
> suitable for the key= argument; however, the other functions are not.

Incidentally, those two functions are as good in usefulness as they are
badly misplaced in location.  If one wants the "three smallest items",
the issue of what algorithm is used to get them should not be primary.
Unfortunately, I can't suggest a better location in today's stdlib.
Maybe that's an argument for AMK's idea that redoing the library should
be focus #1 of 2.5.  The idea that useful functionality either doesn't
get in, or sneaks into some odd corner, does suggest that the library's
overall organization isn't all it could be.

> Unfortunately, the heap is not a collection object in its own right. 
> I don't see a way to attach an ordering function or a reversed=
> argument for the whole heap.  Such arguments would have to be passed
> on every call to heapify(), heappop(), heappush(), and heapreplace().

That one's easier to fix -- we can make a collections.heap type (module
collections feels so threadbare now, with just deque in it!-).


Alex


From limodou at gmail.com  Sat Oct 16 01:59:11 2004
From: limodou at gmail.com (limodou)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:59:11 +0800
Subject: How to deal __getattr__
Message-ID: <505f13c04101522596d9ea6e3@mail.gmail.com>

I found it puzzled me that:

class A:
    def __getattr__(self, name):
        return None
a=A()
b=A()
a==b will raise Exception:

__eq__

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    a==b
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable

I want to compare the objects themself not the attributes of them. But
it seems python invoke __getattr__ method, it's strange. How can I
compare the object directly without calling __getattr__?

Thankx

-- 
I like python!


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 05:22:14 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:22:14 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <aJt8d.3299$M05.285@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex [on tail call elimination]:
> My use case for this was
> the nightmare of 'recursion limits exceeded' for a nevow page with a few
> hundred deferreds -- they got (implicitly, by the framework) chained to
> each other by tail call (for termination purposes), 

Don't know enough about Nevow to comment.  Someone else
pointed out an existing bytecode hack to support this
so you might not need to wait.

> I was very used to workspaces back in the days of APL and I still miss
> them.  Why is it good not to have them?

I've never used such a system so this is only second hand.
I recall hearing that in Smalltalk people end up customizing
an image, which makes is harder for different people to work
together on the same project.

I think of it as working on a Python installation where
I've installed more and more packages over time so when
I start working with a new Python (working on a new
machine, or upgrading to 2.4) I've got to reinstall
everything to get my software to work again.  Only worse
because in a workspace there might not be an independent
source for a function I hacked together months ago
that I end up using often.


>>Try Perl or Ruby instead.
> 
> 
> Not Ruby!  That's a _good_ language:
> 
> kallisti:~/cb/cha/tex/cba alex$ ruby         
> 2+"23"
> -:1:in `+': String can't be coerced into Fixnum (TypeError)
>         from -:1
 >
> to perpetrate such horrors, he definitely wants Perl.

Methods of builtin types can be changed in Ruby.  To
get the OP's desired behavior is simple:

class Fixnum
   alias_method :old_plus, :+
   def +(other)
     if other.instance_of?(String)
       return self + other.to_i
     else
       return old_plus(other)
     end
   end
end

print "add ints: ", 8 + 7, "\n"
print "add int and string: ", 2 + "23", "\n"


% ruby tmp.rb
add ints: 15
add int and string: 25
%

Personally I think the ability to do this is a horror,
precisely because it leads to the horrors you talk about.



> Not sure what docs (besides Python Cookbook and Python in a Nutshell)
> one would have to read to find this answer -- differently from most
> other questions he's asking, this one's hardly obvious from docs...

And I think I pointed it out to you in c.l.py 3 or 4
years ago ;)

> I agree with you that it does, though not as well as you appear to
> believe (e.g. no `` 2 + "23" '' abominations in Ruby, either).

Unless one wants it.  That's why I think Ruby is a better fit
for the OP -- it lets him change the language much more to
meet his expectations than Python does.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 27 10:21:50 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:21:50 -0400
Subject: Ever tried this in distutils?
In-Reply-To: <u654wk076.fsf@rk-speed-rugby.dk>
References: <u654wk076.fsf@rk-speed-rugby.dk>
Message-ID: <3fOfd.18744$%t3.7371@lakeread01>

Brian Elmegaard wrote:

> python setup.py bdist_wininst --bdist-dir=/my/source
> is a really efficient way to wake you up even if time is approaching
> midnight. 
> 
> On my machine it does:
> running bdist_wininst
> running build
> installing to /my/source
> creating 'c:\docume~1\be\locals~1\temp\tmpimyffc.zip' and adding '.' to it
> adding 'setup.py'
> creating dist
> removing '/my/source' (and everything under it)
> 
> Where the last line is the "fun" part. Maybe it should somehow be
> mentioned in the documentation that this will happen?
> 
Better still, maybe it shouldn't happen?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Thu Oct  7 04:52:49 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:52:49 +0100 
Subject: Quixote Question
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434AED@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Fuzzyman]
| Quixote is a web-framework. Does it act as a server or can it act as a
| frameowrk using the CGI protocol ?
| 
| I would like to develop a website with user login, download manager,
| statistics etc and I don't want to reinvent the wheel. *However* I am
| using someone elses server, so I would like to do it using python CGI.
| 
| Is this  :
| a) Possible with Quixote
| b) A sensible use of Quixote

Quixote is *not* a server; the developers recommend Apache, 
but basically it'll run with pretty much any kind of CGI,
FastCGI, SCGI etc. etc. and comes bundled with a couple of
sample servers based on Medusa and Twisted respectively.

Quixote *is* a -- to me -- simple and logical way of mapping
URLs to Python modules, classes and functions. It's not dissimilar
to Zope, but *way* simpler to use and understand. It also includes
the idea of PTL which is a Python import hook which simplifies
pushing HTML out of Python functions. You can take the PTL or
leave it, if you prefer some other HTML-mechanism like Cheetah
or your homegrown stuff.

There's also a helpful Quixote mailing list at
http://mail.mems-exchange.org/mailman/listinfo/quixote-users

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
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From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Oct 18 14:09:49 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Ville Vainio)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:09:49 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 18)
Message-ID: <mailman.5142.1098134189.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>

QOTW: "Other than the parts about 'SADISTS and PERVERTS', what portion
was on topic?" - Peter Hansen, commenting a spam posting
    http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=50285732810cb768

"Python makes me very lazy.  Writing a report in LaTeX today, it was
actually easier for me to make up a syntax for tagging math symbols (put
into comments in the LaTeX source), and extract those and build a List Of
Symbols with a python preprocessor before texification, rather than find
(and figure out how to use) the correct LaTeX package for that." - Caleb
Hattingh
    http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=175f4d840fbb6df2


    The Boo thread inspires Doug Holton to muse about the future
    possibilites of the project, while 'Neuruss' relays news about
    the status of the highly anticipated Starkiller project.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=V8SdnRfq9bLtQvfcRVn-vg%40comcast.com
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=278de0e.0410111836.3a5314e0%40posting.google.com
    
    Daniel Bickett learns how to use the Windows XP balloon tips from
    Python. Once again, ctypes is just the ticket.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.4712.1097513406.5135.python-list%40python.org
        http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/
    
    Blow your technical mind *and* stamp your passport:  see Lithuania in
    autumn, on the occasion of the next PyPy sprint.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=4ce1fbd505bad21f

    Mike Mussman needs to pass a live socket to another process. Apart
    from the well-known posix fork()-based solution, we learn that there
    is actually a relatively clean way to do it in Windows as well.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=5d00592f.0410110923.2bb2b1ea%40posting.google.com
    
    Irmen de Jong announces a new release of the Snakelets web programming
    framework, and gets in an interesting discussion about implementing the
    new, official WSGI API for it and the benefits it would provide.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=416ae4b9%240%2478749%24e4fe514c%40news.xs4all.nl
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.4769.1097609657.5135.python-list%40python.org
    
    Denis Wendum learns that the reverse version of the comparison
    operator __lt__ is __gt__, not __rlt__, but the discussion quickly
    turns towards the differences in attribute access between classic and
    new style classes.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=416BD8E7.9885FEBD%40pasdepourriels.edf.fr
    
    Nick needs to know how to change the desktop background in Windows
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=416c8404%241_3%40alt.athenanews.com
    
    Mabororshi wonders about rewriting the Linux kernel in python. Posters
    question the virtues of such an endeavour, especially that of a pure
    python approach, but writing an OS kernel in Python not only doesn't
    seem so far-fetched - it's been done, as can be seen from the thread.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=10mrba51r9dql4f%40corp.supernews.com
    
    IPython, besides changing the license to BSD, will be going through a
    major cleanup in the immediate future. Fernando Perez, the author of
    the software, wouldn't mind code contributions.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.4814.1097652544.5135.python-list%40python.org
    
    John finds out that at this time, CORBA is probably the optimal way to
    get COM-like functionality for Python in Linux.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac%40posting.google.com
    
    Python 2.4, beta 1 is out. Especially notable with this release is the
    inclusion of the new "subprocess" module.
        http://www.python.org/2.4/
        http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0324.html
    

========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Fri Oct  8 21:02:35 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 21:02:35 -0400
Subject: [OT] problems with css, moinmoin standalone and Firefox on Win32
 was Re: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <41672f35$0$42417$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4166F7C6.7050405@wanadoo.fr> <41670711.9040508@po-box.mcgill.ca>
	<864d3709041008151026806fa4@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4616.1097279660.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41672f35$0$42417$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <416738AB.3030206@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Irmen de Jong said unto the world upon 2004-10-08 20:22:
> Are you sure that the server is sending the correct Content-Type HTTP 
> header for the css files? Firefox refuses to load css files in standard 
> compliance mode when the content-type is not text/css.
> 
> --Irmen

All I am sure about your question is that I don't know how to check.

It's my job to find out, and I will go do some research, but if it is
easy to explain, and you have the time . . . .

If you don't no worries, it is *my* problem after all.

But either way, I won't be doing that research today, I think. I may be
Canadian, but I'm off to watch the US presidential debate that starts 
pretty much now.

Thanks for the continued effort to help me surmount my ignorance :-)

Best,

brian vdB




From matt.price at utoronto.ca  Wed Oct 27 15:35:55 2004
From: matt.price at utoronto.ca (Matt Price)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:35:55 -0400
Subject: piping a stream to a python script
Message-ID: <20041027193555.GA32131@utoronto.ca>

Hi folks,

I'm writing a python script which I plan to use in a macro for mutt,
the mailer.  The script is supposed to generate and send an email
based on a mailto: url pulled out of an email header.  The header will
be passed to the script in the following form, using a pipe:  

 <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>,
        <mailto:python-list-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>

(the mutt macro looks like this:
| formail -x List-Unsubscribe: | /usr/local/scripts/mailout.py )

I'd like to capture the stream in a string object.  Is there a simle
way to do this?  

Thanks much,

Matt


-------------------------------------------
Matt Price	    matt.price at utoronto.ca
History Department, University of Toronto
(416) 978-2094
--------------------------------------------

please don't use the following addresses:  zeus at derailleur.org
aardvark at derailleur.org


From arun.sivakumaran at gmail.com  Sat Oct 30 19:25:28 2004
From: arun.sivakumaran at gmail.com (Arun)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 16:25:28 -0700
Subject: running a python script in the background
References: <371349cd.0410291923.a0bc96b@posting.google.com>
	<4183abf9$0$28744$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <371349cd.0410301525.4d6f5a1f@posting.google.com>

Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> wrote in message news:<4183abf9$0$28744$636a15ce at news.free.fr>...
> I'd use "screen". This is a command that creates shells you can 
> disconnect/reconnect.
> 
> So you launch screen and launch your program inside it. Then, you can 
> disconnect from the screen and log out. When you'll log in, you'll be 
> able to reconnect to your screen and see the result of your program.
> 
> Pierre

Hi all,

Thanks for those replies. I'll try out the solutions suggested.

-Arun


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct 26 22:02:50 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 02:02:50 GMT
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
In-Reply-To: <Xns958EEA9028DD7PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.73>
References: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
	<mailman.5513.1098804135.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3Svfd.3090$kM.900@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<Xns958EEA9028DD7PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.73>
Message-ID: <elDfd.8180$KJ6.6152@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Fred Pacquier wrote:
> * is the documented change on line 348 enough to run the script with a  
> current version of Spambayes ?

I upgraded to Spambayes 1.0.  I think I needed to change something, but
I've forgotten.  I've attached my current version (sans passwords and
identifing mailing list information) to this post.


> * does use of sb_culler contribute to the training of the Spambayes db, 
> or does it assume that it is kept current independently (by means of 
> normal use by a mail client through the POP3 proxy for instance) ?

It does not contribute.  It can't.  That is, it computes a spam value
for a message but since it doesn't know if that classification is
correct it can't train itself.

Every few months I export all my saved mail (inbox, sent, various
archive folders) as "ham".  I also save all the spam that gets through
my filter so I can export it as "spam."  I then train SpamBayes on
those two data sets and use the result for my filter program.

> Well, if any of these new additions are available for outside use, I'd 
> sure appreciate a copy of the updated script...

I didn't make those additions to the attached file.  Feel free to do
so, and to update the Wiki.  Shouldn't be more than a dozen or two
lines of code.  Eg, to have a file of blacklisted subjects you could
use WhiteListFrom (which reads lines from a file, and reloads if the
file's timestamp changed) and tweak the test condition.

Enjoy, and thank you for your kind comments regarding my code.  That
program has really helped with my email sanity.  Thanks also to the
SpamBayes people and to Kevin Altis for his virus killer code I used.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com

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Name: sb_culler.py
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041027/0abd3774/attachment.ksh>

From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 16:24:34 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:24:34 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <4qky5s8r.fsf@python.net>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net> <ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4866.1097680786.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zUcbd.32564$3C6.1308279@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4875.1097688444.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Arebd.33298$3C6.1330114@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<4qky5s8r.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <864d3709041013132474c80d20@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:32:20 +0200, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:
> And for your original question: why do you insist on your new syntax,
> why don't you simply (as ctypes also does it) define the attributes in a
> list, when they have to have a certain order?

I can't speak for Nicolas, but I can for myself. There are three
reasons, in my particular case:

-- The order is already there, explicit in the way the code is
written. I see no reason to be forced to state it _again_, specially
considering the fact that this is prone to errors; for example,
missing elements, duplicated elements, or out-of-order elements (in
ordered differently in the code and in the list).

-- I make extensive use of nested structs. In this case it's _much_
easier to make mistakes as the ones mentioned above.

-- Using classes and inheritance, it's easy to add new members or
redefine existing ones. But I would need to re-state the full list for
any descendant. To make matters worse, in this case, whenever I make a
change to the base class, I would have to change _all_ descendant
classes. Not exactly good OO design. Of course, clever hacks could
possibly be used, but then, it wouldn't look any better than Nicolas
(or my own) ordered-attributes hack.


It's specially important to point out that I consider the source code
ordering to be _explicit_, and not implicit, as some people may
possibly say. In fact, is there anything more explicit than that? Only
people used to Python dicts would say otherwise.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 10:35:17 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:35:17 +0200
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<du7fz4n6ozx.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<41695425$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1glhz5t.k4p1lz19jdab0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416a9808$0$416$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1gli329.1qeu9p019vpx9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

> On 2004-10-11, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> >    ...
> >> Probably so, but that doesn't support the arguement that
> >> there's something wrong with a logical xor argument coercing
> >> it's operands to boolean values unless one also argues that
> >> the logical "and", "or" and "not" operators should also not
> >> coerce their operands to booleans.
> >
> > One of the greatest sources of usefulness for 'and' and 'or' is exactly
> > that these operators _don't_ coerce their operands
> 
> Surely they must coerce the operands for the "test" part if not
> for the "return" part.

We may have different conceptions about the meaning of the word
"coerce", perhaps...?  For example, Python may be doing len(x) when I
use x in a boolean context, but I sure don't see computing len(x) as
"coercing" anything.  To me, Coercion, in Python, is what's documented
at <http://docs.python.org/ref/coercion-rules.html> and is quite a
different concept from Truth Value Testing, which is documented at
<http://docs.python.org/lib/truth.html>.


Alex


From matt.price at utoronto.ca  Wed Oct 27 15:42:39 2004
From: matt.price at utoronto.ca (Matt Price)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:42:39 -0400
Subject: installing and uninstalling packages...
Message-ID: <20041027194239.GB32131@utoronto.ca>

Hi,

I have two quick questions about managing packages:

1) I'm writing a simple module with which I would like to include a
couple of macros for the MoinMoin wiki system.  The files I want to
install are, say:

MainModule.py
ExtraFunctions.py

MoinMacro1.py
MoinMacro2.py

I'd like to install MainModule and ExtraFunctions as usual in the
local site-packages directory (on my debian system:
/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/).  As for the Moin  macros,
I'd like ot check somehow if MoinMoin is installed on the system, and
if it's installed, put the MoinMacro(1|2).py files in the moin macro
directory (again, on my system:
/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/MoinMoin/macro/).  Is there a way to
do this in setup.py?


2)  a more general question:  is there an accepted way to uninstall
packages once they've been installed?  I didn't notice documentation
on this feature in the manual.  

thanks much!

Matt


-------------------------------------------
Matt Price	    matt.price at utoronto.ca
History Department, University of Toronto
(416) 978-2094
--------------------------------------------

please don't use the following addresses:  zeus at derailleur.org
aardvark at derailleur.org


From jparlar at cogeco.ca  Wed Oct  6 18:46:47 2004
From: jparlar at cogeco.ca (Jay Parlar)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:46:47 -0400
Subject: Metaclass Question
Message-ID: <9B63271C-17E9-11D9-BD3F-000A95DA8A1C@cogeco.ca>

(Apologies in advance for the size of this message)

I decided to finally bite the bullet, and become part of the 1% of 
people who understand metaclasses.

One of the examples of them I saw had to do with someone intercepting 
the __init__ method of classes, and doing some fun stuff. I decided to 
try something like that.

class MethodNameGetter(type):
     '''
     Any classes that use this metaclass can, at any time, reference
     self.current_function, to get the name of the current function
     being run
     '''

     '''
     key: name of a class
     value: { key: method reference, value: method name}
     '''
     nameReg = {}
     def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict_):
         super(MethodNameGetter, cls).__init__(name, bases, dict_)

         cls_dict = cls.__dict__
         funcs = [key for key, val in cls_dict.items() if type(val) == 
FunctionType]
         print funcs
         cls.nameReg[name] = {}
         for func_name in funcs:
             old_func = cls_dict[func_name]
             code = old_func.func_code
             defaults = old_func.func_defaults or ()
             p_args = code.co_varnames[1:code.co_argcount]
             p_kw = dict(zip(p_args[-len(defaults):], defaults))

             def new_func(self, *args, **kw):
                 while True:
                     nameReg = self.__class__.nameReg
                     func_name = 
nameReg[self.__class__.__name__][new_func]
                     setattr(self, "current_function", func_name)
                     t = eval("self._old_"+func_name)
                     print "t is", t
                     t(*args, **kw)
                     yield 0

             cls.nameReg[name][new_func] = func_name
             setattr(cls, "_old_" + func_name, old_func)
             setattr(cls, func_name, lambda 
*args,**kw:new_func(*args,**kw))


Essentially, what I'm trying to do here, is intercept all the methods 
defined in some class, and make it so that if you call any methods in a 
class, it will set self.current_function to the name of the method that 
was just called. This would let me easily grab the name of the current 
function being run, while being run.

My goal here isn't really the whole current_function thing, it's just 
to learn metaclasses.

My class here is close, but the problem is with my 'def new_func'. For 
some reason I assumed that "new instances" of it would get created for 
each method being overridden, but they're not.

If I do this:

class A:
     __metaclass__ = MethodNameGetter
     def foo(self):
         print "f"
         print self.current_function
     def bar(self):
         print "b"
         print self.current_function

t = A()
t.foo()
t.bar()

I should see:
 > f
 > foo
 > b
 > bar

Instead, I just see the stuff for foo(), two times.

Is there any way to make new instances of a function, short of a lambda?

Thanks in advance,
Jay P.
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From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Oct  8 01:26:59 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:26:59 -0700
Subject: How to catch exceptions elegantly in this situation?
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F4B@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Saqib Ali wrote:
> - Alternatively I tought of writing a function 'myFunc' and passing in
> the args as follows: (dict=myDict, key="D", expression="a / b / c"). I
> figured within 'myFunc' I would do:  myDict[key] = eval(expression)
> .......... However that wouldn't work either because the eval would
> fail since the variables will be out of context.

1. You might notice that eval() accepts optional globals and locals
arguments, which you can pass to any such 'myFunc' function.

2. If myFunc is defined within the same module, you will notice that it
has access to a, b, and c, as long as you don't rebind those names
within myFunc.

>>> a,b,c = 1,2,3
>>> def myFunc():
... 	print a * b * c
... 	
>>> myFunc()
6



Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct  5 20:07:54 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:07:54 -0400
Subject: [OT] New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4337.1096987921.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <40E605146701DE428FAF21286A97D3091744C6@wphexa02.corp.lh.int>
	<mailman.4337.1096987921.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <DLG8d.291817$4o.46115@fed1read01>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

[... proves he has a sense of humor ...]
>>
>> Python is generally 2000 to 3000 times faster than Java if you run Java
>> on a toaster and Python on a super-cooled space computer orbiting
>> Saturn.
>>
>>
>>  
>>
> I guess that means no.  I have to install that JIT module someone 
> refered me to.
> 

No, it's not widely known but JIT really stands for "Java In Toaster", 
so you'd more or less guarantee slow execution times.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Tue Oct 26 16:44:58 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:44:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Reading XML like Python!
References: <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <clmd0a$am0$2@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

John <johng2001 at rediffmail.com> pisze:

> I have to read a lot of XML for my upcoming project.
> XML is hard on my eyes.
> Is there some sort of converter that converts XML to something more
> eye friendly? maybe like Python?

effbot's ElementTree is a most pythonic API to XML documents I've ever
see.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From jerf at jerf.org  Tue Oct 12 16:46:32 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:46:32 GMT
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.12.17.07.28.365274@jerf.org>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:37:22 -0400, Nicolas Fleury wrote:

> In the following example:
> 
> class MyMetaclass(type): pass
> class MyBaseType(object): __metaclass__ = MyMetaclass
> class MyType(MyBaseType):
>      x = 4
>      y = 5
>      z = 6
> 
> Is there any way to modify MyMetaclass to keep the order of x,y,z somewhere?
> 
> Thx and regards,
> Nicolas

What order?

Yeah, they are listed in the source in a particular order, but there is
absolutely no difference between the six permutations of that order, in
theory or in fact, since the vars end up in a dict.

If you want a concept of "order", you're going to have do define one
yourself. What do you want to do, exactly?

I'm going to guess you're trying to get the vars out in order upon an
iteration, which may not be right but extends to other cases as well
fairly cleanly.

The easy solution is a list:

class MyClass(object):
    classData = [4, 5, 6]
    offsets = {'x': 0, 'y': 1, 'z':2}
    def getVarMaker(var):
        def getVar(self):
            return self.classData[self.offsets[var]]
        return getVar
    def setVarMaker(var):
        def setVar(self, value):
            self.classData[self.offsets[var]] = value
        return setVar
    x = property(getVarMaker('x'), setVarMaker('x'))
    y = property(getVarMaker('y'), setVarMaker('y'))
    z = property(getVarMaker('z'), setVarMaker('z'))
    def __iter__(self):
        for value in self.classData:
            yield value
    
A metaclass could take classData and offsets and make the access vars for
you.


--------
def getVarMaker(var):
    def getVar(self):
        return self.classData[self.offsets[var]]
    return getVar

def setVarMaker(var):
    def setVar(self, value):
        self.classData[self.offsets[var]] = value
    return setVar

class OrderedClassAttributes(type):
    def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict):
        super(OrderedClassAttributes, cls).__init__(name, bases, dict)
        for name in cls.offsets:
            setattr(cls, name, property(getVarMaker(name),
                setVarMaker(name)))

class MyClass(object):
    classData = [4, 5, 6]
    offsets = {'x': 0, 'y': 1, 'z':2}
    __metaclass__ = OrderedClassAttributes
    def __iter__(self):
        for value in self.classData:
            yield value
    
---------
(Assuming the above is copy/pasted into Python:)
>>> m = MyClass()
>>> m.x
4
>>> m.y
5
>>> m.z
6
>>> m.y = 33
>>> m.y
33
>>> list(m)
[4, 33, 6]
---------

Lightly tested but working as I designed.

Is that what you wanted? If not, feel free to ask more. There are
certainly other options but without more data, it is hard to know what you
need.

This is a pretty good metaclass use, I think.




From cjw at sympatico.ca  Thu Oct 14 20:57:06 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:57:06 -0400
Subject: File browser cgi in python
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.12.16.53.14.959543@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
References: <pan.2004.10.12.16.53.14.959543@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <wfFbd.27185$hk6.1068163@news20.bellglobal.com>



Dan Stromberg wrote:
> Are there any reasonably secure file browser implementations for
> unix/linux (and perhaps MacOS X and Windows as well) written in python,
> that are accessed over https via a cgi script?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
I've been using Konqueror, part of the KDE package, for the last few 
days.  I've had no problems so far.

Colin W.


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Oct  2 16:29:00 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:29:00 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BAY12-F40ZUr3CrJRxK00025f50@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY12-F40ZUr3CrJRxK00025f50@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <415F0F8C.4000403@rogers.com>

Some pointers:

    * An even number divided by 2 gives a remainder of 0, an odd number
      divided by 2 gives a remainder of 1.
    * There are functions/operators that give you the remainder of a
      division of one number by another (hint, "modulo")
    * Indices into a string are just numbers

Alternates:

    * Look at the "range" function's parameters (think indices)
    * If you're using a later version of Python, look at the "stride"
      available in slices
    * Brute force (track on/off for each item) will work, but be rather ugly

Good luck,
Mike


Campbell Kwok wrote:

> Hi, I am trying to write a program for my school homework and I'm a 
> little stuck. The homework have to do with barcodes and I need to read 
> the barcode, then add up all the odd number positions(eg a barcode of 
> 123456789012, then the odd is 1,3,5,7,9,1) I do not know how to get 
> the odd number positions out of that str of numbers. Please help me
>
 
________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sun Oct 17 13:33:32 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:33:32 +0200
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
References: <mailman.5015.1097859379.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckp0vj$r1g$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1glsuhc.10eukauy09rs8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ckuad9$nba$04$1@news.t-online.com>

> However, there are no problems whatsoever with the issue you remark on,
> as long as the method never alters the 'items' object.  As long as only
> nonmutating methods get called on 'items', i.e., 'items' is practically
> treated as "read-only", Donnal Walter's approach is just fine.  The
> issue you remark on does deserve to be made, but it's also important to
> understand when it does matter and when it doesn't.

You are right of course, but the high frequency of postings regarding
"strange default value behaviour" made me want to make this point before
Donnal steps into that pitfall. And while the example at hand didn't alter
the contents of items, I'd nevertheless settled for items=None and used
something like this:

def foo(items=None):
    if not items is None:
        ....


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk  Thu Oct 21 14:08:11 2004
From: pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk (Paul Clinch)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 11:08:11 -0700
Subject: Client authentication https server m2crypto?
References: <cl61id$ojg$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <8cf2994e.0410211008.764a9e11@posting.google.com>

Fadly Tabrani <no at spam.net> wrote in message news:<cl61id$ojg$1 at reader01.singnet.com.sg>...
> Anybody has any ideas how to implement client authentication/peer 
> certificate verification using the M2crypto package https server example?
> 
> Fadly Tabrani

You might like to sign up to the m2crypto mailing list, at

http://listserv.surfnet.nl/archives/python-crypto.html

theres also an archive search.

Regards, Paul Clinch


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 14:20:39 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:20:39 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4356.1096994017.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gl6dqy.17aec2n1uecu0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.4340.1096988457.5135.python-list@python.org>	<55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4356.1096994017.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XBB8d.3546$M05.2157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> Really?  Well, I never took computer science so I guess I wouldn't 
> exactly know.  What's the point of making them write a report?

To get experience in being able to evaluate a language
and compare it to other languages.  Get them used to the
idea of reading the documentation, FAQ, tutorials and
other sorts of works that accompany a language.

You might want to try it some day.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From i_munoz at euskalnet.net  Sun Oct  3 07:15:02 2004
From: i_munoz at euskalnet.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1igo?=)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 13:15:02 +0200
Subject: can't listen the file
Message-ID: <415FDF36.50909@euskalnet.net>

Hello again:
    I was making some tests with pygame and I have written a very small 
piece of code, just to test if it really works right. The code is this:
import os
import pygame

def load_sound(name):
    pygame.mixer.init()
    if os.path.exists(name) != False:
        sound= pygame.mixer.Sound(name)
        print sound.get_num_channels()
        sound.set_volume(0.5)
        sound.play(1, 10)
        print sound.get_num_channels()
        return sound
       
    else:
        print 'File does not exist:', name
        return 0


explode1= load_sound("Sun.wav")

The thing is I do not get any error message but it does not play Sun.wav 
file. Any idea?



From gisle at activestate.com  Fri Oct 29 03:09:37 2004
From: gisle at activestate.com (Gisle Aas)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 09:09:37 +0200
Subject: Data::Dumper for Python
References: <opsgkj8cih074qab@news.singnet.com.sg>
	<slrnco2d8k.kgh.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <87654u80ge.fsf@ask.g.aas.no>

Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> writes:

> In article <opsgkj8cih074qab at news.singnet.com.sg>, Edward wijaya wrote:
> > Is there any equivalent of it
> > in Python?
> 
> Take a look at the "pprint" module. Also, it's worth noting that the Python
> interpreter prints representations of data structures all the time, no
> library required:
> 
> >>> x = [{'a': a, 'b': b} for a in range(2) for b in range(3)]
> >>> x
> [{'a': 0, 'b': 0}, {'a': 0, 'b': 1}, {'a': 0, 'b': 2}, {'a': 1, 'b': 0},
> {'a': 1, 'b': 1}, {'a': 1, 'b': 2}]
> 
> Read up on the __repr__ and __str__ methods to understand how this mechanism
> works and how to extend it to your own objects.

Data::Dumper will automatically show instance variables of your
objects and recurse down into their representation.  pprint does not
do that.  Because of this I find pprint quite useless (at least as a
replacement for Data::Dumper).


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 15 03:04:52 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:04:52 +0200
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<864d3709041013162473ccf127@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4919.1097716141.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glo59j.1yw9xfs1s6t5czN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Phil Frost <indigo at bitglue.com> wrote:
   ...
> I do agree though that there is little point in rewriting Linux in
> Python. The advantage in Python is its expressiveness, but by rewriting
> an existing system you gain nothing.

By rewriting any existing system in a higher-level language, you may
gain the benefits of higher-level languages -- more concise and readable
expression, enabling maintenance, modification and enrichment.

This is certainly the advantage we're after with the pypy project, which
is based on rewriting the Python interpreter in Python.  Google for
pypy, you'll find lots of materials about it on the net.  If we can
shrink the interpreter and built-in modules from about 350K lines of
code (based on a rough find/xargs cat/wc on the 2.4 release) down to
about 30k (and we're on target for that -- pypy isn't anywhere like
ready, but already does a lot), the benefits in maintenance, further
future modification, enabling experimentations, etc, should follow.

Re Linux, we just got a fascinating talk at CodeJam Italia, last week,
about the new virtual memory twists that are likely going to be in
kernel 2.6.9.  Part of it was this Indian mathematician appearing out of
nowhere with a wonderful new algorithm designed exactly to solve some
subtle problems in the new ("pagetable-less", pardon the
oversimplification!-) architecture for mmap on huge-memory machines.
This is wonderful, BUT, if the source could shrink by a factor of 10 or
more, making them hugely more accessible, think of how much more such
useful, nay, precious, contributions, that might elicit -- and how much
easier it would be for contributors to experiment and play around with a
huge variety of ideas...

The obvious problem might be performance.  For that, all of us in the
pypy project (except the few others who can actually follow what's going
on;-) rely on wizard Armin Rigo, of psyco fame -- the idea is that the
pypy framework will "easily" (ha!-) generate machine code (on the fly or
in advance) for the (runtime-restricted) subset of Python which is used
in "interpreter level"... leading in the end to a _faster_ virtual
machine, wrt current pure-C Python, one competitive with CPython+psyco
or even beating it (thanks to advances in "symbolic execution" and type
annotation which are already enabled by using a higher-level language,
rather than C, for the interpreter/VM/execution framework).

pypy still needs to be completed, and proven in the field.  But I'm
offering it as an example of the potential benefits of rewriting
existing software in higher-level languages...


Alex


From cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu  Tue Oct 19 14:48:37 2004
From: cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu (Christopher J. Bottaro)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:48:37 -0500
Subject: Returning from socket.accept and threading issues.
Message-ID: <cl3nbq$31k$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hello,
I'm trying to write a fairly simple network program.  The main thread spawns
a thread which creates a listener socket and then calls socket.accept on
it.  socket.accept blocks indefinantly.  My problem is that when the main
thread determines that it is time to quit, how do I get the spawned thread
to exit?  Preferably I'd like the spawned thread to return from
socket.accept when the main thread tells it to and then check a shared
varible to determine if it should die or call socket.accept again.

Any advice on this stuff would be greatly appreciated.

My temporary solution is to poll (via select.select) the listening socket
for input before socket.accept is called.  I don't like this method because
it eats up CPU time.

Thanks for the help.



From davep at dpawson.co.uk  Thu Oct  7 13:11:43 2004
From: davep at dpawson.co.uk (Dave Pawson)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:11:43 +0100
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <1gl97cx.69p760iugqaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<1gl97cx.69p760iugqaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1097169103.2519.1.camel@homer>

On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 20:28, Alex Martelli wrote:

> 
> What about a compromise: allow ! and ? only as the LAST (and NOT only)
> character of an identifier.  This leaves you the !cmd as escape to
> shell, and you only need to ask users to leave a space before the
> question mark (as in 'x ?') when they're questing for info about x (or
> you could switch to ?x -- whatever...).

> Embedded, yes, trailing, no -- that's the compromise I'm proposing... no
> 'foo!bar' or 'fee?fie' identifier, just _trailing_ bangs and qmarks...

+1
  Sounds more than reasonable to me.
  And aligns with other usage?

-- 
Regards DaveP.
XSLT&Docbook  FAQ
http://www.dpawson.co.uk/xsl




From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 28 14:51:17 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 18:51:17 GMT
Subject: Newbie trying to install pygsear
References: <mailman.5627.1098988652.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41813fa5$0$33073$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-28, Glen <stygian at tesco.net> wrote:

> I'm quite new to both Python and Linux (Mandrake 10.0)
> Python and pygame are both installed (examples run fine), but I get the
> following error when trying to install pygsear
>
> [root at localhost pygsear-0.53]# python setup.py install
> running install
> error: invalid Python installation: unable to open
> /usr/lib/python2.3/config/Makefile (No such file or directory)

You need to install the libpython2.3-devel package.

Log in as root, and run the command "urpmi libpython2.3-devl"
  or
Start rpmdrake and do the pointy/clicky thing.  

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Is this TERMINAL fun?
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Wed Oct  6 20:15:13 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:15:13 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <20041006132633.ED2D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041006112905.ED18.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<416454EE.7050405@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041006132633.ED2D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <41648A91.1050703@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
>I am not sure that:
>  import psyco
>  psyco.full()
>...will do anything useful in Pyrex code, so I wouldn't bother.
>
>Let us say you manually translated 'mymodule.py' to 'mymodule.pyx' (or
>wrote 'mymodule.pyx' directly), then ran the Pyrex preprocessor and a C
>compiler to make 'mymodule.so' on a linux platform, and placed it in a
>proper location.
>
>Let us also say you have another module 'pythonmodule.py' which imports
>'mymodule'.  If the psyco import and psyco.full() lines are in
>pythonmodule.py (or any other python module that is imported), psyco
>will do its thing on the Python source.
>
>I do not know if leaving the psyco import and psyco.full() lines in
>'mymodule.pyx' will do anything good or bad, as I have never tried such
>a thing (for me, psyco is sufficient in the rare case that I need such
>functionality).
>
> - Josiah
>
>  
>
I will have to check the docs for Pyrex to see if it does not performs 
its compilation on imported Python modules but only on Pyrex modules.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 20 03:12:59 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:12:59 +0200
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5152.1098149022.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glwdd4.s05uuadrav97N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2tlvdiF20ldc8U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1gly6gz.1e3w9r85y0tbjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> > Dima Dorfman <d+pylist at nospamplease.trit.org> wrote:
> > 
> >>  yield *other
> >>
> >>to mean:
> >>
> >>  for x in other:
> >>    yield x
> > 
> > Looks to me roughly equivalent to such proposals as 'yield from other';
> > not totally out of whack but IMHO not warranted.
> 
> If it's a matter of whether a special syntax for this
> is justified, it might open the way for some kind of
> optimisation to bypass the overhead of the extra
> for-loop.

What "extra" for-loop?  Sorry, must be missing something here.

Anyway, the bytecode that idiom makes is something like:

              3 LOAD_FAST                0 (other)
              6 GET_ITER            
        >>    7 FOR_ITER                10 (to 20)
             10 STORE_FAST               1 (x)
             13 LOAD_FAST                1 (x)
             16 YIELD_VALUE         
             17 JUMP_ABSOLUTE            7

where of course [3] is to be replaced by the computation of 'other' by
whatever means.  The pattern in 6..17 doesn't seem hard to recognize if
we want to optimize commonly occurring blocks of bytecode into something
faster -- assuming this IS commonly occurring, of course, and that there
is a worthwhile optimization (maybe into a new bytecode, or something).

But introducing special syntax just to replace the need for an
optimizer's looking into bytecode patterns leaves me a bit dubious.
Also, I think there may be other more common patterns to optimize with
higher priority/returns than this one (just guessing).

I wouldn't mind if 2.4->2.5 focused (besides the library) on
optimization (perhaps conditional on -O, which right now doesn't _do_
much;-) -- and peephole optimizing the bytecode looks like something
that might well be worthwhile.  I know of attempts to do that in the
past, and as I recall they weren't very fruitful, but the internals have
changed enough since then that this might now be different.


Alex


From kosh at aesaeion.com  Sat Oct 16 08:45:48 2004
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:45:48 -0600
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
In-Reply-To: <du7zn2malsn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <mailman.5038.1097927312.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7zn2malsn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <200410160645.48676.kosh@aesaeion.com>

On Saturday 16 October 2004 6:29 am, Ville Vainio wrote:
> >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Sparks <zathras at thwackety.com> writes:
>
>     Michael> Being more specific though... It also frustrates me that
>     Michael> I can write something I find useful and then cannot
>     Michael> afford to pass it onto friends who use windows, even if
>     Michael> there's no commercial value in it.
>
> What we are seeing here is a horrible waste of coding - 95% of the
> desktop world runs on Windows, and if a piece of software is unusable
> for 95% of the potential userbase... that just sucks. Incentive to

That is also misleading. Even though 95% of people use windows that does not 
make them 95% of the potential userbase. A lot of programs seem to only have 
interest on windows no matter how portable to windows they might be. What 
percent of vim, emacs, bash etc users are windows vs unix?

A lot of my stuff tends to be unix only and it has no effect on customers 
other then saving them money for testing on other platforms that nobody has 
expressed even a slight interest in using. 

> change the OS mostly works for home users, it would have to be pretty
> damn convincing to make a corporation with standardized desktop PCs to
> make the switch.


Overall I would like it if qt was available for gpl usage under windows. I 
would like it even more if kdelibs and kdebase would then work under windows. 
Then I could make some nice gui frontends to some web app stuff that are just 
a royal pain in the neck to do under windows becaus of the lack of something 
like the kde io slaves.


From programmer.py at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 08:50:30 2004
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:50:30 -0500
Subject: Writing a Python font viewer/manager
In-Reply-To: <20041028211454.2A23.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
References: <clrkae$9uq$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<20041028211454.2A23.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <d52c72d204102905507831c97f@mail.gmail.com>

The code below works in windows.  I assume it works in linux also.  

The code illustrates how to create a "font-picker".  If you want
something more advanced, you could roll up your sleeves and create
your own.  It wouldn't be too bad.  Check out wx.FontEnumerator. 
wx.FontEnumerator will enumerate the fonts on your system (duhhh...)

import wx

app = wx.PySimpleApp()
dlg = wx.FontDialog(None, wx.FontData())
if dlg.ShowModal() == wx.ID_OK:
    fontdata = dlg.GetFontData()
    font = fontdata.GetChosenFont()
    wx.MessageBox("You chose the `%s' font." % font.GetFaceName())
else:
    wx.MessageBox("You pressed cancel and didn't choose any fonts.")

app.MainLoop()

HTH,
jw

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:14:53 +0200, Maciej Dziardziel
<fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl> wrote:
> Bats wrote:
> 
> > Hello.
> > On Windows, I used to have a little app that would let me navigate
> > visually through my 20,000+ fonts and I could create groups of them for
> > quick install/remove from the system. It was great to be able to type in a
> > word (say for a logo) and then see it in all the fonts.
>  
> Perhaps take a look at gfontview - not python app, but may show you how to
> access fonts.
> 
> --
> Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
> www.fiedzia.prv.pl
> 
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Sun Oct 17 03:14:49 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:14:49 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <pnocd.3098$bV5.2652@trndny07>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02> <ckr3j8$9fq$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<XNgcd.1933$B34.419@trndny02>
	<5Ikcd.5517$6k2.1064@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<pnocd.3098$bV5.2652@trndny07>
Message-ID: <JZocd.1793$Ug4.1406@trndny01>

Chris S. wrote:

> Andrew Dalke wrote:
> 
>> Here's the output I got when I ran it
>>
>>
>> abadb?  We've got a 'Antimatter containment field breach' warning!
>> abcdef?  We've got a 'Reactor meltdown imminent' warning!
>> zxc?  That's okay.
>> abcq?  We've got a 'Antimatter containment field breach' warning!
>> b1234f?  We've got a 'Coffee too strong' warning!
> 
> 
> Actually, I've noticed some strange behavior. It seems to match more 
> than one character per wild card. For instance, your code matches 
> 'abaxile', 'abaze', and 'abbacomes' to the pattern 'ab##'. I'm not an 
> expert with rex, but your expression looks correct. What could be 
> causing this?

Spoke too soon. I seems all you needed was to change:

full_regexp = "|".join(as_regexps) + "$"

to:

full_regexp = "$|".join(as_regexps) + "$"

However, I noticed rex still doesn't return multiple matches. For 
instance, matching 'abc' to the given the patterns '#bc', 'a#c', and 
'ab#', your code only returns a match to the first pattern '#bc'. Is 
this standard behavior or is it possible to change this?


From listserver at tdw.net  Wed Oct 20 06:46:49 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:46:49 +0100
Subject: How to connect to ftp server via proxy using ftplib????
References: <20041020094239.79D741E4002@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <006201c4b692$1e8e28d0$ccbefea9@twilliams>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "BruceKL WhoH" <BruceWhoHKL at gawab.com>


> Hi,all
>      I am trying to write a simple ftp client, and
> I found ftplib module. But my app needs to connect to server
> via proxy, I cannot find the way to do this using ftplib .
> As we know ,most ftp client app(such as FlashFXP,CuteFtp) can connect to
ftp server via proxy.
> How to do this?
>      Please point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance.
>


Depends on the proxy,  but a common method is to ftp to the proxy,  then use
user at real-server as the user name, and the original password

EG  for ftp.download.com

ftp proxyserver  (or open proxyserver from with ftp)
user anonymous at ftp.download.com
pass xxxxx

... so

from ftplib import FTP
site = FTP('my_proxy')
site.set_debuglevel(1)
msg = site.login('anonymous at ftp.download.com', 'password')
site.cwd('/pub')

HTH

:-)




From rdjdvd at inwind.it  Mon Oct 18 03:35:36 2004
From: rdjdvd at inwind.it (RDJ)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 00:35:36 -0700
Subject: [AoooAoooA] BrowAppSys (BAS): Browser Applications System V.0.0.1
Message-ID: <c88425e6.0410172335.4c650d30@posting.google.com>

http://spazioinwind.libero.it/rdjhome/BrowAppSys-0.0.1.zip

=== This is a AoooAoooA project (^_^) ===

BrowAppSys (BAS): Browser Applications System V.0.0.1 (2004 Oct 16)

    Copyright (C) 2004 RDJ

    This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
modify
    it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published
by
    the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
    (at your option) any later version.

    This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
    but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
    MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
    GNU General Public License for more details.

    You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
    along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
    Foundation, Inc., 675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA.
    

TABLE OF CONTENTS
*****************

 _REFERENCES
 _FILES
 _RUN_BAS
 
 
 _REFERENCES
************

Redirect: AoooAoooA.too.it 
WebSpace: spazioinwind.libero.it/rdjhome/AoooAoooA.html 
___Email: rdjdvd at inwind.it (OBJECT: [AoooAoooA] your object)


_FILES
******

BrowAppSys/BAS.py...........main program
BrowAppSys/BAS_index.py.....default application
BrowAppSys/BAS_static.py....files loader application
BrowAppSys/BAS_utility.py...utility for applications
BrowAppSys/GNU_GPL.txt......GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
BrowAppSys/GNU_LGPL.txt.....GNU LIBRARY GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
BrowAppSys/README.txt.......this file


_RUN_BAS
********

BAS.py starts a server to http://localhost/

---------------------------------- code
#
# Main
#

if __name__ == '__main__':
	BAS(80)
---------------------------------- code

You can change BAS(80) in another port, for example BAS(8080).
Now you can run the program:

python BAS.py


then open http://localhost/ or http://localhost:8080 or other,
with your browser. Appear:

AoooAoooA image

[________] [________] [get method]
[________] [________] [post method]

Error
Reload
Exit


It is OK! Now view the source code...

#
# Import
#

import BAS_utility, re, socket, urllib

#
# Class
#

class BAS:
	def __init__(self,port):
		self.apps = {}
		self.loop = True

		s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
		s.bind(('',port))
		s.listen(1)
		while self.loop:
			conn, addr = s.accept()
			method = []
			headers = {}
			data = ''
			sendstr = ''
			while 1:
				data += conn.recv(1024)
				end = data.find('\r\n\r\n')
				if end != -1:
					datal = data[:end].split('\r\n')
					method = datal[0].split(' ')
					method[1] = urllib.unquote(method[1])
					for r in datal[1:]:
						rr = r.split(': ')
						headers[rr[0]] = rr[1]
					if method[0] == 'GET':
						sendstr = self.getResp(method,self.getModule(method[1]),self.getParams(method[1]),headers)
					elif method[0] == 'POST':
						cnt_len = int(headers['Content-Length'])
						dataCnt = data[end+4:]
						while len(dataCnt) < cnt_len:
							dataCnt += conn.recv(1024)
						dataCnt = dataCnt[0:cnt_len]
						dataCnt = urllib.unquote(dataCnt)
						sendstr = self.getResp(method,self.getModule(method[1]),self.getParams(dataCnt),headers)
					break
			conn.send(sendstr)
			conn.close()

	def getResp(self,method,module,params,headers):
		print method
		try:
			if module == 'BAS_exit':
				self.loop = False
				return BAS_utility.makeResp('text/html','Exit')
			elif module == 'BAS_reload' and self.apps.has_key(params['mod']):
				exec 'import '+params['mod']
				exec 'reload('+params['mod']+')'
				exec 'self.apps["'+params['mod']+'"] =
'+params['mod']+'.BAS_main()'
				return self.apps[params['mod']].getResp(method,params,headers)
			elif self.apps.has_key(module) == False:
				exec 'import '+module
				exec 'self.apps["'+module+'"] = '+module+'.BAS_main()'
			
			return self.apps[module].getResp(method,params,headers)
		except Exception, e:
			return BAS_utility.makeResp('text/html',str(e))

	def getModule(self,url):
		res = re.search('/([-_\.\w]+)',url)
		if res == None:
			return 'BAS_index'
		else:
			return res.group(1)

	def getParams(self,url):
		res = re.search('\?(.*)',url)
		if res != None:
			url = res.group(1)
		params = {}
		for r in url.split('&'):
			rs = r.split('=')
			if len(rs) == 2:
				params[rs[0]] = rs[1]
		return params

#
# Main
#

if __name__ == '__main__':
	BAS(80)


From avner at skilldesign.com  Sun Oct  3 11:50:31 2004
From: avner at skilldesign.com (Avner Ben)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 17:50:31 +0200
Subject: compiler AST
Message-ID: <4160218b@news.012.net.il>

Hi,

I am working on a reverse-engineering system that relies on comments. I 
have taken a look at the "compile" module in the Python library. Quite 
expectedly, the AST does not contain comment lines. The only exception I 
  have noticed is the very first comment in the source, which is 
interpreted as the module's docstring and is surprisingly also stored in 
the AST as a "discardable"-type node. This leaves me with the dismal 
task of reading the source on my own, parsing the comments and then 
matching them with the AST through the lineno node attribute. Which is a 
waste, because the compiler has been there before me. (For my own 
reasons, I had rather use comments than resort to such esoteric but 
compiler-friendly means as dummy variables etc.)

My question: Is there a way to configure the Python compiler to keep All 
comments from the source as AST nodes (e.g. "discardable")?

	 Avner.


From listserver at tdw.net  Thu Oct  7 06:32:40 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:32:40 +0100
Subject: generating emails from Python
References: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk><864d37090410070250210881d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<007801c4ac56$6873c900$ccbefea9@twilliams>
Message-ID: <009001c4ac58$ff143370$ccbefea9@twilliams>

>Is it possible, using email.MIMEMessage, to generate an email
>with both HTML and plain text content, in such a way that:

>1) it is displayed as HTML if the email client recognizes HTML;
>2) it is displayed as plain text if the email client is HTML impaired?

It should be,   though I haven't tried it.

This page might help you work out what you need to do.
http://www.wilsonweb.com/wmt5/html-email-multi.htm

HTH



From sean at buildingonline.com  Wed Oct 27 17:44:46 2004
From: sean at buildingonline.com (Sean Berry)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:44:46 -0700
Subject: Can not get urllib.urlopen to work
References: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
	<lnUfd.78980$hj.33310@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <OEUfd.78984$hj.59213@fed1read07>

By the way, this does not work as well as it could.

It only lists the definitions if they are presented in listed <LI> tags.

So for the word greedy... it works.  But, for the word greed, it does not.

I am sure some better parsing of the pages could be done for those 
definitions lot listed in li tags.

Maybe I will play around with it and see what I can come up with. 




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Oct 13 11:30:43 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:30:43 +0200
Subject: sequence of objects
References: <mailman.4860.1097680204.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckjhn1$lo7$05$1@news.t-online.com>


a = [X() for i in xrange(60)]

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut  Tue Oct 26 21:24:18 2004
From: SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut (SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:24:18 GMT
Subject: replacing batch file with python script
Message-ID: <417EF91F.929B1D69@shaw.ca>

I have not been able to find a simple way to have a python script
execute an MS-DOS program repeatedly.  execv(), for example, won't run
it more than once.  I have been using many lines of a .bat file, like
so:

.
.
.
del xyz
myexec 1 2
del xyz 
myexec 1 2
.
.
.

where myexec is an executable program that I want to run many times.  I
would like to replace the repeated batch file lines with a python loop.
There must be an easy way to do that, no?  else why is Python called a
scripting language.

Thanks

Mitchell Timin

-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  In
practice, there is.

http://annevolve.sourceforge.net is what I was into until recently.  My
interest will revive when someone takes up my "SailChallenge".
Humans may write to me at this address: zenguy at shaw dot ca


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Oct  7 10:04:35 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:04:35 +0200
Subject: Converting a set of data to string and then into a file
References: <d3502feb.0410070530.444744c6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.07.14.04.35.283750@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Thu, 07 Oct 2004 06:30:58 -0700 schrieb Shufen:

> Hi,
>  
> I have set up a upload form where user can add data into the form via
> a web browser and submit it. And these data entered by the user will
> be grabbed by:
> 
> xxxx = data.getvalue.('xxxx')     # data is the name of the form

> The error stated that I can't concatenate 'str'
> and 'NoneType'.

Hi,

You can do it like this:

foo=data.getvalue("....")
if foo==None:
    foo=""

Then you can concatenate the values.

 Thomas



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct  4 23:33:11 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:33:11 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <416212E0.70704@fastmail.fm>
References: <cjsn7p$3m8$1@sea.gmane.org> <416212E0.70704@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20041004203210.ECB9.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Peoples didn't like the idea eh?

Spend a nontrivial amount of time using Python, and you will discover
why they are not desireable to the majority of Python users.

 - Josiah



From adurdin at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 01:05:02 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:05:02 +1100
Subject: End of file
In-Reply-To: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F5A@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F5A@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a04101022054fcbaba9@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:57:27 -0700, Robert Brewer <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote:
> 
> Is there some reason people consistently don't use new-style classes? :(

I usually use old-style classes accidentally, because it's easier to
do """class Foo:""" than """class Foo(object):""", particularly in the
interactive interpreter.
Is there a plan for the former to produce a new-style class (i.e.
total removal of old-style classes) before Py3k?


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 08:30:29 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:30:29 -0400
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <MJednUj3F8J40MDcRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

Wolfgang Keller wrote:
> is it that my know-how to use Google is insufficient or...
> 
> ...does really noone use Python for industrial control applications?
> 
> At least I didn't manage to find any publicly available modules for such
> things as OPC/fieldbus communication etc...

The others have said mostly everything there is to say.  I just
wanted to point out a few more items to show that Python really
is used for industrial control, and is very suitable, even if
it isn't widely used, *yet*.  (And I'm sure my thoughts on this
subject are in line with Cameron's.)

While at Kaval Wireless my group used Python *extensively* for
industrial control.  I can't give much in the way of detail,
though some past postings probably contain more tidbits than
they should ;-), but we were doing lots of CAN work, talking
to equipment via GPIB, and so on.

Now that I'm back to consulting as Engenuity Corporation, I'm
working with Turnkey Automation (sorry for all the name-
dropping, but that was kinda the point of the post) on a variety
of robotic and industrial control projects *all* focusing on
the use of Python to provide vastly increased productivity,
reliability, maintainability, and flexibility.  (I believe
some wag in this newsgroup once opined that Python was good
at providing all the "ilities"...)

As one tiny example, I had to whip up a provisional driver for
a Tecan (Cavro) robot for a customer who needed to talk to it
with LabVIEW.  I spent the majority of two weeks learning
ActiveX issues from scratch, and wasted a fair bit of time trying
to do a COM server using the win32com stuff before switching
to and successfully using ctypes.  I also used the excellent
PySerial (thanks Chris!) module.

In the end, the code that represents the robot-specific aspects
of this, the protocol and command set and such, took only two
days to write.  And it worked, first time (after my log messages
allowed us to troubleshoot the customer's incorrectly wired
cable) *without ever visiting the site for testing*.  This was
for me an unprecedent occurrence in the history of my work in
software.  (For those that don't do control: code that talks
to robots *never* works the first time. :-) )

Had I done this with any of the past languages I've used for
the task, whether C, C++, Delphi, Java, I'm certain it would
have taken several times longer, probably at least as long
as two weeks.  (And I *have* done similar though simpler stuff
in each of those languages which did take much longer,
especially to debug.)

I attribute the productivity to two things, roughly equally:
Python, and test-driven development.

Cameron: let's set up that list!  If nothing else it might
encourage cowardly companies to start to share more things
via open source, such as drivers for robots, which while they
took time to develop are *not* part of a given company's core
IP and which, if they contributed them to the community,
would likely benefit from more improvements than the company's
own programmers will ever be able to make...

-Peter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 19:08:05 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 01:08:05 +0200
Subject: Python Patterns
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4162ef68$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416322cd$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1gl7n2v.1umm5cf1tojo6vN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> >  Meanwhile Robert Martin has already written a
> > book far closer than any other to what I had in mind -- but he uses C++
> > and Java as explanatory languages, and _that_ will give MY book enough
> > of an edge to almost catch up with Uncle Bob's awesome experience and
> > writing skills...!-)
> 
> A bit of searching found this book:
> "Agile Software Development, Principles, Patterns, and Practices" ?

Yep, that one.  His masterpiece so far, IMHO.  Pity about all the C++
and Java therein;-).


> State is about changing an object's class at runtime, to make it do
> something different when the object is "in a different state".
> Strategy is about being able to switch or add internal algorithms
> without having to change the code that uses it.
> So say the GOF. Amen.   :-D
> 
> Don't know why I'm writing all this. I have some reading to do...

Writing may help fix one's ideas and thus help one's reading;-).


Alex


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Thu Oct 28 15:54:44 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:54:44 +0200
Subject: Python equivalent of LWP and HTTP in Perl
In-Reply-To: <vAbgd.24$SJ2.18@fe61.usenetserver.com>
References: <vAbgd.24$SJ2.18@fe61.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <41814e83$0$48933$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Dekaritae wrote:
> I have a script that I've written in Perl that retrieves files generated 
> from a template. It works decently enough, but I'd like to rewrite it in 
> Python (Perl was just a detour; it was originally Sed).

>   my($ua) = LWP::UserAgent->new;
>   my $req = GET "$uri";
>   $req->header(Referer => "$referer");
>   $ua->proxy('http', 'http://localhost:8080/'); # Proxomitron
>   $response = $ua->request($req);
>   $respcode = $response->code;


import urllib
proxies = {'http': 'http://localhost:8080/'}
response = urllib.urlopen("some_url", proxies=proxies).read()

--Irmen


From mwm at mired.org  Fri Oct 15 18:13:12 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:13:12 -0500
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4920.1097716237.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4958.1097771160.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416eeb74$0$23209$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <x7oej3vddz.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
> Exactly.  Any number of "low level", statically typed,
> compiled, languages would work equally as well.  Modula-2 (not
> sure about M-3, the GC stuff maybe a bit iffy in a kernel),
> Ada, BLISS, PL/I, Pascal, etc.

Haven't operating systems been written in most of those languages? For
a sufficiently loose definition of OS, of course.

  <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sat Oct  2 06:06:35 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:06:35 +0100
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<415dbc36$0$13835$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <yfsy8ipfn84.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:

> Because it's not possible to define what "the right thing" is.

It is trivial, but os.system was clearly not the right utility for my task and
maybe I even knew that the correct way would be using the os.spawn* thing at
some point but forgot again. That still leaves the popen family of commands,
though, and anyway, as I pointed out in other posts in this thread, although I
accept that os.system should not be changed the current state of affairs
(documentation-wise if nothing else) in all likelihood means plenty of broken
code gets written.

'as


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Sat Oct  9 21:58:55 2004
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 21:58:55 -0400
Subject: Better way of getting parsed Python rather than an AST?
In-Reply-To: <091020042009446962%kenneth.m.mcdonald@sbcglobal.net>
References: <091020042009446962%kenneth.m.mcdonald@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20041010015855.GA13389@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Kenneth McDonald]

>    2) Take an AST as produced by the Python AST module, and convert it
>    into a "friendlier" form. Unless I'm missing something, the builtin
>    AST representation seems somewhat, um, low-level.

Use the `compiler' module, standard in Python 2.3.  It has tiny problems,
but overall, it is fairly useful.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Oct  4 10:38:44 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:38:44 +0200
Subject: cgi long running jobs
References: <383854e0.0410030601.59ddfd34@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.04.14.38.43.605384@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Sun, 03 Oct 2004 07:01:50 -0700 schrieb Vineeth S:

> Hi,
>
> I have a web app set up, it is one long job and goes on for about 20
> or 30 seconds. When the request comes in, I throw a "please wait", set
> the job on its way, and want to periodically update the "please wait"
> thrown.
> 
> What I tried initially was a client-pull, where with the first "please
> wait" I would send a refresh header with a flag as parameter, and then
> use that flag to check for completion, else send a new "please wait
> <blah>". This did not work, I am guessing, because the request and the
> subsequent process has been tied to that session, am I correct ?

Hi,

How do you check the flag?

You can do it like this:
One script or method called "startProcess": Start the
real work in background (os.system(".... 2>&1 &")).
This returns a redirect to "waitForProcess?id=..."

The second scripts redirects itself to the same URL
after 1 second (in the head tag of the html), if
the process has not completed. Otherwise return the result.
You can add some progress meter which gets updated
every second.


> Going by that reasoning, I tried a fork-exec to run the long job, and
> periodically check for completion from the parent. This does not work
> either, and this has foxed me. Is it because fork-exec in the cgi
> context has some other behaviour ?

What kind of session-management do you use?

HTH,
 Thomas



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 10:24:21 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:24:21 +0200
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via
	pseudo-functi	on o verloading.
References: <mailman.5506.1098797231.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm9u08.1mw6cx410cozdcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<Doran_Dermot at emc.com> wrote:

> Just for the hell of it I'll stick my neck out and say that my method
> implementations still look easier for a newbie Python programmer to read
> since there are fewer Python idioms involved.

Of course: if you do things in a way that's very far from a normal
Python approach, you won't use normal Python idioms (but, rather, poor
imitations of other languages' idioms).  No surprise there.

BTW, since you top-post (another practice that's quite far from the
usual courtesy of Pythonistas) -- my code that you're _presumably_
commenting on (hard do say, when you post a solid block of your text
followed by a verbatim copy of a post; normal courteous practice is very
different, as you can easily tell by just _reading_ for a while in this
newsgroup for example), namely...:

> If you want to accomodate Java crazies (with setFoo/getFoo manias,
> universal there) you might...:
> 
> >>> class x(object):
> ...   def __getattr__(self, name):
> ...     if name.startswith('get') and name[3:4].isupper():
> ...        n = name[3:4].lower() + name[4:]
> ...        return lambda: getattr(self, n)
> ...     raise AttributeError, name

...is meant as a _joke_ (though it's working Python code), as the use of
the words 'crazies' and 'manias' indicated.  Only a crazy person would
rather use 'print x.getFoo()' than a normal 'print x.foo' to the same
effect, is the implication -- though Python allows you to set up
automatic translation from the crazy form to the normal form in _FIVE_
lines that a bright beginner should have no more trouble following than
for any other mild application of metaprogramming/inspection (indicating
an amount of power which _I_, at least, still find pretty impressive).

The only sensible practice is using properties and educating misguided
newbies who think methodcalling is preferable (much less the _inferior_
C++ fashion of overloading getter and setter method with the same name,
which I strongly advised against even when I _was_ a C++ mentor &c...).


Alex


From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct  7 18:01:25 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 22:01:25 GMT
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4165bcb5$0$55252$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-07, Fuzzyman <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote:

> Assuming that each visitor will have a unique IP address is
> probably not 100% accurate but will have a reasonably low
> margin of error!!

Not.  A significant portion (I'd guess a vast majority) of the
machines out there have either dynamically allocated IP
addresses or are behind a proxy or NAT firewall.   Even if that
weren't true, you'd be keeping track of computers, not of
people.  I assume it's the latter that matter to you?

> Is there any reason not to use this approach ?

Because it's going to be wrong most of the time?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ... I think I'd
                                  at               better go back to my
                               visi.com            DESK and toy with a few
                                                   commonMISAPPREHENSIONS...


From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Sat Oct  2 19:24:54 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 23:24:54 GMT
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4201.1096756628.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnclue66.n81.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004, Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> Tim Roberts wrote:
>> Sam Holden <sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
>> 
>>>Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>This particular pickle is a disagreement of number: since there is only 
>>>>one village, the correct slogan should be "... is missing its idiot". If 
>>>>you thought it was "... it's idiot" then take two demerits and refrain 
>>>>from posting on c.l.py for 48 hours.
>>>
>>>Their isn't necessarily plural so that isn't a problem. Since arguing
>>>grammar isn't something I can do successfully, I'll instead resort
>>>to an appeal to authority and say that one of the authors of 
>>>"The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language" agrees with me:
> [snip]
>
>> Second, "their" is allowed as a singular pronoun only in those cases where
>> a gender-specific pronoun is called for, but the gender is unclear or would
>> be sexist.  Instead of "Everyone brought his Python manual," we are now
>> allowed to say "Everyone brought their Python manual."
>
> It's now correct to use "their" in that way now? Yay! I'm glad the way I've 
> always used it is finally correct. Take THAT, my English teachers of days long 
> gone! Now if I could only convince them to happily split infinitives...

>From the same author and same blog I referenced before, an entry talking about
his book "A Student's Introduction to English Grammar" says the following:

        The other shocking thing is more substantive. I just did a
        global search of the entire electroscript and found that nowhere
        does the book make the slightest mention of the concept "split
        infinitive".

His proposed solution is to add to the glossary:

        Split infinitive: No such thing. Don't be a loony.

For the full rant:
	http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001466.html

He really is a Professor of Linguistics and not some elaborate web hoax :)

-- 
Sam Holden


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 00:55:50 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:55:50 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

P.M. wrote:
> My question is, how can I best parallelize the running of separate
> autonomous Python scripts within this app?  Can I run multiple
> interpreters in separate threads within a single process?

No.  Python only supports one interpreter per process.  There
may be several threads running, but only in the context of a
single interpreter.  Why?  Various data structures assume
global state.  One is support for different modules.

> In past
> newsgroup messages I've seen advice that the only way to get
> scalability, due to the GIL, is to use an IPC mechanism between
> multiple distinct processes running seperate interpreters.  Is this
> still true or are there better ways to accomplish this?

Hasn't changed.  There many ways to do it, ranging from
ZODB to Twisted to POSH to CORBA to shared memory to Pyro
to a few dozen more.  I've been waiting for a time to
give Pyro a try.

If most of your time is spent in Boost calculations then
you can release the GIL when you leave Python.  So long
as extensions do not call back into Python there won't
be a scaling problem due to the GIL.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Oct 25 08:45:40 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:45:40 +0200
Subject: speedier cgi and perf monitoring
References: <mailman.5396.1098656839.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.25.12.45.39.951966@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:28:23 -0400 schrieb Eric S. Johansson:

> I've seen a couple solutions for making CGI faster without significant 
> rewrite.  The only one I've been able to locate is fastCGI.  I seem to 
> recall something like speed CGI or speedy CGI but I can't find I thought 
> I saw (not a puddytat).  References to this other CGI speedup tool would 
> be appreciated.

Have you looked at SCGI? It uses pre-forked worker processes.

> But I've also been playing with performance monitoring to try and 
> improve performance with a couple of CGI that are very very hard on disk 
> storage.

This performance doesn't get better with SCGI. It only helps you to speed
up the start up time (loading of python, connect to database, ...)

> I have some disk intensive CGI which I have measured which showed only a
> few tenth of seconds execution time but also takes sometimes 15 or 20
> seconds elapsed time.

I would create a standalone script for testing the performance (no
cgi, not network traffic, ...) of the parts, which are independant of
the cgi frontend.

HTH,
 Thomas



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Oct 25 12:32:11 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:32:11 -0300
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7AD5@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com]

#- there seems to be a serious problem with allowing numbers to 
#- grow in a
#- nearly unbounded manner, as int/long unification does: it hides bugs.
#- most of the time, i expect my numbers to be small. 2**31 is good
#- enough for most uses of variables, and when more is needed, 2**63
#- should do most of the time.

Do you expect the "bug" to be trapped when you reach a number like 2**33?

That implies that the number 2**30 is not a bug? Or then you'll need 28-bit
integers?

Do you really rely on this in your code?

.	Facundo

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From cjm at ava.com.au  Wed Oct  6 19:52:50 2004
From: cjm at ava.com.au (Chris Munchenberg)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:22:50 +0930
Subject: wxTheClipboard problem, IDLE vs PythonWin
Message-ID: <41648552.402@ava.com.au>

I know its a while since this was posted, and likely has been solve. But I just came up against the same problem and couldn't find an answer on Google, so here is my take on it all.

It appears that the wx.TheClipboard only works effectively inside a wx.App main loop (or at least that got rid of my problems with it). Doesn't mean you have to show a gui interface.
Hope this helps,

Chris.

> I have a need to write data to the Windows clipboard from a Python script.
> I found a nice, simple solution @
> http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/ClipBoard.  The problem is, I can only
> get it to work from within the PythonWin and SPE IDE's.  I get errors if I
> try to run the exact same code from the command line or via IDLE's
> interactive shell.  I can't figure it out.  Any ideas?  Possibly something
> missing from my PYTHONPATH environment variable?
> 
> Any help is appreciated.  Thanks,
> Tim



From len-1 at telus.net  Thu Oct  7 15:14:02 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:14:02 GMT
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
	<mailman.4460.1097104255.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4ql6gx5r.fsf@telus.net>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> writes:

> On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:39:50 -0600, Erik Johnson <ej
> <at at bag.python.org>wellkeeper <"dot>com"@bag.python.org> wrote:
> > ...
> > <snip>
> > ...
> >     You might be surprised to find out that all the Bar objects end up
> > sharing the same foo_d dictionary.
> 
> Yes, they will share. And you explanation is correct. The default
> arguments are evaluated only once, when the def() is executed.
> 
> Now an explanation on what I mean when I say 'the def() is executed'.
> It took me a while to really 'get' it, and I would not be surprised if
> anyone ever made the same mistake.
> 
> -- When Python reads you code, it compiles it to bytecode. That's the
> first step. It will always do it before execution.
> 
> -- It then executes your code -- *the entire code*. It includes class
> definitions and function definitions.
> 
> -- In the case of class definitions, it really executes the class
> statement body, but only once. After executing the class statement
> body, it creates a class with all the symbols defined there. It's much
> more flexible than a simple compilation step. When you instantiante a
> object, it just reads this definition and calls the proper constructor
> (__init__).
> 
> -- In the case of the def() -- or function definition -- it really
> 'executes the def() statement', which is not the same thing as to say
> that it will execute its body. Understand? The def statement has an
> effect -- it creates a function object, and associates it with the
> code of the function. The default arguments are evaluated at this time
> and also stored as part of the function object (you can do all types
> of nice stuff with function objects, if that's something you like...
> but I'll leave that for other opportunity).
> 
> -- Of course, the function body is executed only when you call it, by
> referring to the function object.
> 
> That's it, in a nutshell.
>  
This is essentially correct but leaves an opening for misunderstanding.
The assertion "-- It then executes your code -- *the entire code*." is
ambiguous. Only code reached during normal program flow is executed.
The python class and def statements are no exception. They are executed
each and every time they are encountered in the currently executing block
of code. If a definition is in a part of the code that is never reached
then that class or function will never be created.

Definitions as executable statements have their advantages. Closures
rely on an enclosed function's def being executed each time the enclosing
function is called. And a module can use an if statement to control which
version of a class or function is created when the module is loaded.

Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Mon Oct  4 18:47:21 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:47:21 -0600
Subject: FTP without timeout?
In-Reply-To: <ehk8d.2954$TY2.2825@lakeread04>
References: <1096874575.935801@ftpgate> <ehk8d.2954$TY2.2825@lakeread04>
Message-ID: <4161D2F9.7070400@pythonapocrypha.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Chris wrote:
> 
>> How do I setup an FTP connection without timeout using ftplib.FTP?
[snip]
> Though frankly, from the documentation, since there doesn't appear to be 
> a default timeont on sockets, I'm not sure where this bizarre ten minute 
> timeout is coming from. The string "time" doesn't appear at all in the 
> ftplib source, so I'm somewhat stumped.
> 
> Are you sure the server doesn't require some sort of keepalive from the 
> client?

An intermediate firewall could also need a keepalive - it's not uncommon for 
them to kill idle connections after a few minutes.

-Dave


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Wed Oct 13 19:25:04 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:25:04 GMT
Subject: The IDE question
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9582E6CB78BEJanC@213.118.38.197>

dataangel schreef:

> DrPython seems to be just what I'm looking for -- after a few bugs are 
> fixed and the open file window is improved. I can't open files on 
> computers on my local network because there's no mechanism to do that, I 
> can't type in my own path (doesn't respond to me typing it in and 
> hitting enter), and shortcuts to folders don't show up.

The problem is that they wrote their own "open file" dialog, while a much 
better[*] one is already available in wxPython...

[*] at least on Windows

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From nils.grimsmo at idi.ntnu.no  Tue Oct 12 17:02:24 2004
From: nils.grimsmo at idi.ntnu.no (Nils Grimsmo)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:02:24 +0200
Subject: proposition for syntax for initialisation of multidimensional lists
Message-ID: <416c465f$1@news.broadpark.no>

i always have trouble explaining why creation of multidimensional lists 
is not as straight forward as it could be in python. list comprehensions 
are ugly if you are new to the language. i really would like  to see it 
made easy. i propose using tuples in the same way as integers are now. 
example:

 >>> [0] * (2,3,4)
[[[0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0]], [[0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 
0], [0, 0, 0, 0]]]

this is even less "mathematically bad" syntax than multiplication with 
an integer, as multiplication of vectors is only well defined if they 
are of the same length. [1] * 7 could be interpreted as a vector of 
length one multiplied with a scalar 7 resulting in the vector [7]. (this 
  was not meant as a proposition to remove the current syntax.)

i would be easy to implement:

class mylist(list):
     def __mul__(self, dims):
         if dims.__class__ == (()).__class__:
             if len(dims) > 1:
                 return [self.__mul__(dims[1:]) for i in range(dims[0])]
             else:
                 return list.__mul__(self, dims[0])
         else:
             return list.__mul__(self, dims)

li = mylist()
li.append(0)
print li * (2,3,4)


what do you think?


klem fra nils


From rupole at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 10 14:33:36 2004
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:33:36 -0400
Subject: Creating a window from PyHandle? Possible?
References: <ckaq81$50h$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <41697e81$1_5@127.0.0.1>

The basic problem is that the handle returned from GetPage is not an MFC
object, and win32ui is expecting an MFC property sheet page, not a raw
handle.
I played around with this a while back, and managed to display the property
page
by sending the window message PSM_ADDPAGE to a PyCPropertySheet.
However, you can't use SendMessage until you've called CreateWindow for the
property sheet, and you can't call CreateWindow until you've added a
property
page. (catch-22!)  I got around this by adding a dummy page to the property
sheet,
calling CreateWindow & SendMessage to add the task page, and then removing
the stand-in.  But since the task page isn't MFC, after I did that any
attempt to call methods on the property sheet caused an access violation.

          Roger

import win32api,win32con, win32ui, pythoncom
import traceback, os
from win32com.taskscheduler import taskscheduler
PSM_ADDPAGE = win32con.WM_USER + 103
PSM_REMOVEPAGE = win32con.WM_USER + 102
task_name='test_addtask_4.job'

ts=pythoncom.CoCreateInstance(taskscheduler.CLSID_CTaskScheduler,None,

pythoncom.CLSCTX_INPROC_SERVER,taskscheduler.IID_ITaskScheduler)

t=ts.Activate(task_name)
iptp=t.QueryInterface(taskscheduler.IID_IProvideTaskPage)
tp=iptp.GetPage(taskscheduler.TASKPAGE_TASK,False)

fname=os.path.join(os.environ['SYSTEMROOT'],'system32','mstask.dll')
dll=win32ui.LoadLibrary(fname)
try:
    dll.AttachToMFC()
except:
    traceback.print_exc()

ps=win32ui.CreatePropertySheet('eh ?????')

## property sheet won't let you CreateWindow unless there's already a
property page attached,
## and you can't do a SendMessage until you've created a window !!!!
pptask=win32ui.CreatePropertyPage(401) ## 401 is the task page template from
mstask.dll, identified using EnumResources
ps.AddPage(pptask)
ps.CreateWindow()
ps.SendMessage(PSM_ADDPAGE,0,tp)
## get rid of the dummy
ps.RemovePage(0)



"Fadly Tabrani" <no at spam.net> wrote in message
news:ckaq81$50h$1 at mawar.singnet.com.sg...
> Hi guys,
>
> This is the first time I'm posting to the newsgroup, hope you can help
out.
>
> I'm writing a module to interface with the task scheduler in windows
> using PyWin32. Everything has been great so far but I'm stuck on
> displaying the propertys page of a task. Here's the code:
>
> import pythoncom
> import win32api
> from win32com.taskscheduler import taskscheduler
> import win32ui
>
> task_scheduler = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance\
>                            (taskscheduler.CLSID_CTaskScheduler,
>                             None, pythoncom.CLSCTX_INPROC_SERVER,
>                             taskscheduler.IID_ITaskScheduler)
>
> def show_schedule_page(task_name):
>
>          TASKPAGE_TASK = 0,
>          TASKPAGE_SCHEDULE = 1,
>          TASKPAGE_SETTINGS = 2
>
>          try:
>              task = task_scheduler.Activate(task_name)
>          except pythoncom.com_error, e:
>              print 'Task name not found...'
>              return
>
>          # ** This returns a PyHandle
>          handle =
task.QueryInterface(taskscheduler.IID_IProvideTaskPage).\
>                   GetPage(1, True)
>
>          # ** Can't create a window with it using win32ui, returns error
>          try:
>              win32ui.CreateWindowFromHandle(handle)
>          except win32ui.error, e:
>              print e
>
>          # ** Can't add it to a property sheet, return an error
>          property_sheet = win32ui.CreatePropertySheet('Task Schedule')
>          try:
>              property_sheet.AddPage(handle)
>          except (win32ui.error, TypeError), e:
>              print e
>
> show_schedule_page('task1')
>
> Any ideas on how to do it? The task schduler api reference is at
>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/taskschd/taskschd/task_scheduler_start_page.asp
>
> I'm pretty new at this, is there anything that I've missed out?
>
> Cheers,
> Fadly Tabrani
> python loves me loves python




From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Thu Oct 21 20:20:46 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:20:46 -0400
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <KrWdnZqG5YjDz-XcRVn-qQ@giganews.com>

bearophile wrote:

> I don't know if I can really suggest improvements to the language... 

No you can't. Your suggestions are  driven by nothing else
but your desire to make  Python resemble Pascal since
that is the language that you are accustomed to.

Istvan.





From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct 20 14:14:11 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:14:11 -0700
Subject: Python + Java knowledge
In-Reply-To: <4175ed72$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <mailman.5169.1098194201.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4175ed72$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20041020083310.0A91.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:

> I am amazed about people like Eric Raymond that can pick up and use a 
> dozen language, how did they do it? It is equally amazing that 
> programming jobs these days require half a dozen programming languages 
> known. I came with a background in Pascal and bits of C, and some xBase 
> languages, then picked up Java and Python. Considering that my 1st 
> bachelors degree is in biochemistry, I may be proud already...


(I'm not a linguist, nor a neuroscientist, but...)

One could ask the same thing about people who pick up natural languages
that easily; there was a linguistics professor at my undergrad who would
pick up a few new languages each year.  A few /whole/ languages (grammar,
vocabulary, spoken, etc.). There is a particularly entertaining anecdote
about how he brought his early-teen daughter to an N*Sync "concert", and
while waiting near the back, a local news station interviewed him,
asking why he was there, and how he came to have a book in his hand
(paraphrased), "I brought my daughter to see this group, though I am
learning Sanskrit*."  *(may have been some other language, it has been
nearly 5 years since I heard the anecdote)

It turns out that the professor's natural language ability is a birth
defect; a birth defect that we could likely all handle having.  In
normal people, the natural language processors in one's brain become
harder and harder to train in new languages once someone ages beyond the
early teens.  In this professor, he finds learning languages easier now
than when he was a child (he has meta-language knowledge that helps
integrate new languages faster and easier).

One can conceptually separate natural languages into having two basic
pieces; grammar and vocabulary.  Vocabulary requires memorization, and
grammar requires a procedural understanding of what goes on (what goes
where when and why). Rarely are people able to learn both, and if you
can learn both, congratulations.


Most programming languages require in a natural language sense, a
grammatical knowledge of the programming language in order to understand
it.  Ergo, those that do well with grammar, generally would do well with
learning new programming languages (API notwithstanding); as programming
languages are a basic grammar with a handful of vocabulary words and
punctuation thrown into the mix.

I'm not sure this helped any, but there you go.
 - Josiah



From adykes at panix.com  Fri Oct 15 12:37:24 2004
From: adykes at panix.com (Al Dykes)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 12:37:24 -0400
Subject: Please help a windows user get started with python/glade and an IDE.
Message-ID: <ckouc4$7fa$1@panix5.panix.com>


I'm looking for info on programming with glade on python, and maybe
some sample code to hack. I've got python installed, but need a howto
for glade and google doesn't help me.

Any suggestions ? 






-- 
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes  at p a n i x . c o m


From andy at andybak.net  Wed Oct 20 05:22:15 2004
From: andy at andybak.net (Andy Baker)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 02:22:15 -0700
Subject: strongly typed
References: <slrncnbau9.bba.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5202.1098234500.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4989f73b.0410200122.36c166fa@posting.google.com>

Here is the best article I've read on the subject:

http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=7590

This one also looks interesting and I'm just about to read it myself:

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TypingQuadrant


From jhub at gwdg.here_simple_one_dot.de  Wed Oct 13 08:03:26 2004
From: jhub at gwdg.here_simple_one_dot.de (Jochen Hub)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:03:26 +0200
Subject: convert string to list
Message-ID: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>

Hi,

I am a real beginner in Python and I was wondering if there is a way to 
convert a string (which contains a list) to a "real" list.

I need this since I would like to give a list as an argument to my 
Python script from the bash:

#!/usr/bin/python
import sys
argument1 = sys.argv[1]
thelist = ???(argument1)

and then call the script from the bash like this

thescript.py ["A","B","C"]

Thanks you,
Jochen


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Tue Oct  5 15:49:27 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 19:49:27 GMT
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted Data
	Chunk Efficiently
References: <ba1e306f.0410050212.3b592313@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2sgc66F1enc5nU1@uni-berlin.de>

Jane Austine <janeaustine50 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> I have student_names and their scores, which are between 0..100.
> 
> I want to retrieve in the sorted order in terms of score, Nth
> student's name to N+10th student's name along with their scores.
> (suppose a web page showing top 10 students and there are "next page"
> link and if you follow the link there shows next top 10 students with
> "prev" and "next" page links.)
> 
> The list is dynamically resized -- elements are added or deleted. The
> list could go fairly long enough that pulling all the data on memory
> at once is not a good choice.
> 
> What algorithm and data/file structure are most efficient? (the
> environment is "cgi" based web environment)
> 
> Simplest approach would be using btree from bsddb. But there are only
> "first"/"last" and "next"/"prev" moves. If I have to retrieve 20..29th
> students, I have got to "first" and then "next" 19 times before I
> finally get to 20th student, which is a waste of time(and memory).
> Maybe I could keep the cursor position among sessions if I were using
> a standalone server. However, it is in CGI environment.
> 
> What can I do instead? What data structure allows you to access
> nth..n+10th data from the sorted list in a constant time?

This is an example of "premature optimization".  How many student do you
have anyways?  10,000 students with 100 bytes for name and score comes
to 1MB.  Just keep the list as textfile, and read a block at time.


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Tue Oct 19 08:44:40 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:44:40 -0400
Subject: Packaging Python Apps
In-Reply-To: <w7CdnbnX8KsXTencRVn-tw@comcast.com>
References: <w7CdnbnX8KsXTencRVn-tw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <4r-dnSgkULGlkejcRVn-jA@giganews.com>

Peter wrote:

> 1) deposit all files into a specified directory like when I do
> make install DESTDIR=/foo

see:

python setup.py install --help

> 2) have a do-nothing install like
> make -n install

python setup.py -n install

Istvan.


From BRENDA.HARVEY at usbank.com  Mon Oct 25 15:00:27 2004
From: BRENDA.HARVEY at usbank.com (BRENDA.HARVEY at usbank.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:00:27 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <OFC108CB42.BD72112E-ON88256F38.00686986-88256F38.00686986@usbank.com>

I will be out of the office starting  10/25/2004 and will not return until
11/01/2004.

If you should need assistance from Human Resources in my absence, please
call Kerri Constans at  (503) 275-3454.    The Employee Service Center can
be reached at 1-800-806-7009 for questions regarding Payroll, Benefits and
Leaves of Absence.   Thank you!


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains
information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications privacy
laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the
intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from
retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this
information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have
received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank
you in advance for your cooperation.
==============================================================================



From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Tue Oct 19 05:59:55 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:59:55 +0200
Subject: reverse Jython
In-Reply-To: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <cl2oaj$31o$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Maurice LING schrieb:
> Jython appears as a relatively successful attempt to bridge Python to 
> Java and I find that the best part is that it can convert Python codes 
> into Java codes. As said in the webpage, it is a python interpreter 
> written in Java. I am wondering if it is worth reversing this, that is, 
> a Java interpreter implemented in Python?

If you /ask/ if it's worth doing it, then maybe it is not worth doing it 
for you?

I personally can't think of a use for such a system, but I know that it 
would be quite an effort to get it running, though the JVM itself was 
designed to be not that complex.

What would be the advantage over a bridge through the JNI?

Stefan


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Oct 26 16:29:09 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:29:09 -0500
Subject: Write 10k integers to a file using struct
In-Reply-To: <6dbtn0hpfv8srggke84f0qkq7ll19tm7s5@4ax.com> (Thomas's message
	of "Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:06:35 +0200")
References: <6dbtn0hpfv8srggke84f0qkq7ll19tm7s5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3oeipdy0a.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas  <2002 at weholt.org> writes:

    Thomas> What's the quickest way to write and read 10.000 integer
    Thomas> values ( or more ) to and from a file? Using struct
    Thomas> somehow? The example in the docs shows how to handle to or
    Thomas> three arguments, but is the fastest way to write and read
    Thomas> just a simple :

    Thomas> while data: f.write(struct.pack(format, integer-value))

    Thomas> or is there another, quicker and nicer way to do it????

When handling arrays of numbers of that size, you may want to think
about using numeric/numarray.  In the example below, I use randint to
simply to create a list of random integers for demo purposes.
 
1 >>> import random
 
2 >>> nums = [random.randint(0,100000) for i in range(10000)]
 
3 >>> from numarray import array, fromfile
 
4 >>> a = array(nums)
 
5 >>> a.typecode
----> a.typecode()
Out[5]: 'l'
 
6 >>> a.tofile?
Type:           instancemethod
Base Class:     <type 'instancemethod'>
String Form:    <bound method NumArray.tofile of array([ 5193, 43059, 91249, ..., 13735, 38070, 75129])>
Namespace:      Interactive
File:           /usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/numarray/generic.py
Definition:     a.tofile(self, file)
Docstring:
    Write the array as a binary image to a file.
     
    If file is a string, it attempts to open a file with that name,
    otherwise it assumes file is a file object. At the moment if
    special positioning is needed in the file one must do that with
    the file object beforehand. More options may be added to this
    method to allow positioning or appends.
     
    Note that for numerical data, the system byte order in which
    the data is represented is *not* recorded in the file.  This
    renders the file non-portable because extra information is
    required to interpret it on different machines than the one it
    was created on.
 
 
7 >>> a.tofile('mynums.dat')
 
8 >>> fromfile?
Type:           function
Base Class:     <type 'function'>
String Form:    <function fromfile at 0xb4b2c614>
Namespace:      Interactive
File:           /usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/numarray/numarraycore.py
Definition:     fromfile(file, type, shape=None)
Docstring:
    Create an array from binary file data
     
    If file is a string then that file is opened, else it is assumed
    to be a file object. No options at the moment, all file positioning
    must be done prior to this function call with a file object
 
 
9 >>> b = fromfile('mynums.dat', 'l')
 
10 >>> b.shape
Out[10]: (10000,)

11 >>> a is b
Out[11]: False
 
12 >>> a==b
Out[12]: array([1, 1, 1, ..., 1, 1, 1], type=Bool)



From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Thu Oct 14 04:37:18 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:37:18 GMT
Subject: Static typing in py [was Re: Some notes]
In-Reply-To: <1glma7r.wmy65316pyd4xN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du71xg314tr.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<r26bd.38689$H11.1309666@twister1.libero.it>
	<1glma7r.wmy65316pyd4xN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2Vqbd.40234$H11.1367625@twister1.libero.it>

Alex Martelli ha scritto:

> gabriele renzi <rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it> wrote:
>    ...
> 
>>On a related note: What is supposed to be a type in python?
> 
> 
> Since 'type' is a Python built-in, just like, say, 'int', I think the
> answer is pretty clear: "X is a type" means isinstance(X, type), just
> like "X is an int" means isinstance(X, int).
> 

doh! dumb me , thank you for pointing out :)


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Oct 16 22:14:34 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:14:34 -0500
Subject: Anything like 'inspect.getsourceencoding()'?
Message-ID: <20041017021433.GE2588@unpythonic.net>

Is there a convenient way to find the encoding of a source file?  I
thought maybe this would be in the inspect module, but I didn't see it
there.  Just as nice would be a way to get the file as a unicode string,
I suppose.

(This is related to another thread I've recently posted to, where
another user was having trouble with pydoc's links to source files using
the file: protocol.  I suggested having pydoc serve the source files,
and provided a patch, but it's crossed my mind that it would be nice to
tell the browser the encoding of that file.

Jeff
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From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 13 03:04:03 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:04:03 +0200
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Nicolas Fleury wrote:

> In the following example:
> 
> class MyMetaclass(type): pass
> class MyBaseType(object): __metaclass__ = MyMetaclass
> class MyType(MyBaseType):
>      x = 4
>      y = 5
>      z = 6
> 
> Is there any way to modify MyMetaclass to keep the order of x,y,z
> somewhere?

If you want to record the order of these definitions, you need to pass a
custom dictionary that keeps track of assignments in the class generation
code (basically a normal python function comprising the class suite).
Unfortunately that dictionary - which you see later as the classdict
parameter of the metaclass __new__() method - is always a dict created in C,
as was recently discussed on c.l.py (sorry, but all keywords I remember are
'metaclass' and 'martelli' - not very selective :-). Below is my (clumsy)
attempt for a workaround:

import itertools

class OrderedValue(object):
    newIndex = itertools.count(1).next
    def __init__(self, value):
        self.value = value
        self.index = self.newIndex()
        
class Meta(type):
    def __new__(mcl, name, bases, classdict):
        assert "ordered_names" not in classdict
        
        values = []
        for (n, v) in classdict.iteritems():
            try:
                v, i = v.value, v.index
            except AttributeError:
                pass
            else:
                values.append((i, n, v))
        values.sort()

        ordered_names = []
        for (i, n, v) in values:
            ordered_names.append(n)
            classdict[n] = v
        classdict["ordered_names"] = ordered_names
        
        return type.__new__(mcl, name, bases, classdict)
        
                
class Base:
    __metaclass__ = Meta
    
class Demo(Base):
    alpha = 0
    beta = OrderedValue(1)
    gamma = OrderedValue(17)
    delta = OrderedValue(3)
    
print Demo.ordered_names        
print Demo.alpha, Demo.beta


Peter



From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Oct 12 02:03:57 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:03:57 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F63@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> >All I can say is, "sometimes it's not minimal". Adapters are a great
> >example:
> >
> >xforms = {dejavu.icontains: lambda x, y: x + " Like '%" + y[1:-1] +
> >"%'",
> >          dejavu.icontainedby: icontainedby,
> >          dejavu.istartswith: lambda x, y: x + " Like '" + y[1:-1] +
> >"%'",
> >          dejavu.iendswith: lambda x, y: x + " Like '%" + 
> y[1:-1] + "'",
> >          dejavu.ieq: lambda x, y: x + " = " + y,
> >          dejavu.now: lambda: "Now()",
> >          dejavu.today: lambda: "DateValue(Now())",
> >          dejavu.year: lambda x: "Year(" + x + ")",
> >          }

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> Personally, I'd be likely to solve this particular issue by 
> defining a make_formatter() function:
> 
> def make_formatter(format):
>     def formatter(*args):
>         return format % tuple(args)
>     return formatter
> 
> xforms = {dejavu.icontains: make_formatter("%s Like '%%%s%%'"),
>           dejavu.icontainedby: icontainedby,
>           dejavu.istartswith: make_formatter("%s Like '%s%%'"),
>           dejavu.iendswith: make_formatter("%s Like '%%%s'"),
>           dejavu.ieq: make_formatter("%s = %s"),
>           dejavu.now: make_formatter("Now()"),
>           dejavu.today: make_formatter("DateValue(Now())"),
>           dejavu.year: make_formatter("Year(%s)")
>           }
> 
> # [...]
> xforms[dejavu.icontains](x, y[1:-1])

Yesss..., but now (for an example) you've abstracted the slicing of y
out of the xforms. Notice that the original ieq doesn't slice the tips
off of y like the others do, so now your calling code must "know about"
that difference. So we've simply spread the logic into 3 places
(make_formatter, the original dict, and now the callers) where before it
was "all in one". That makes it more brittle, in this case. Trying to
handle those tiny differences with *more* arguments being passed into
make_formatter will make this an uglier mess quite quickly.

All of which is to say, sometimes lambdas are the most clear, flexible
solution. Those situations are: where parameterization is not expressive
enough, and where full functions are more expressive (and therefore
verbose) than necessary. I agree that that small window between the two
(where lambdas live) can be made arbitrarily small and rare, but it'll
never go away without causing some pain.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 28 10:37:05 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:37:05 -0400
Subject: mod_python newbie question.
In-Reply-To: <CE90A4CF2E5E9C4890AE5D9D8A5EFAE3011897A0@CINMLVEM10.e2k.ad.ge.com>
References: <CE90A4CF2E5E9C4890AE5D9D8A5EFAE3011897A0@CINMLVEM10.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <41810411.7000404@holdenweb.com>

Golawala, Moiz M (GE Infrastructure) wrote:

 > Thank you so much for the in detail explanation that you provided me. 
I tried what you said and it works wonderfully.
 >
Moiz:

It's a pleasure: in future if you reply via the list I'll normally see 
it, and then so will others in case it's a follow up, but I am glad to 
have been of assistance. I am taking the liberty of copying this reply 
to the Python list, I hope you don't mind.

 > So I should have a main.py that defines all the functions that point 
to different pages (more like pages I have to navigate to) the publisher 
handler will take me there by appending what is in the FORM action tag 
to the URL.
 >
In actual fact there is no *requirement* for all pages to be a part of 
the same Python file, that's just a convenience feature which makes it 
easy for the different pages to share code. The benefit mod_python gives 
is that once a module is loaded it stays resident in the Python 
interpreter embedded within the Apache process, so you incur less 
overhead. As another poster pointed out, this can also be a source of 
difficulty at times - although changes to the page module will be 
automatically detected and a reload() executed as required, if your 
module imports *other* modules then changes to those modules won't be 
automatically handled. This seems a fair compromise to me, but others 
dislike it (I normally add a "refresh" function to allow me to manually 
reload all imported modules during testing).

As far as the form contents being appended to the URL goes, this is a 
consequence of your form using the default GET method. If you added a

	method="POST"

attribute to your <form> tag the browser would then transmit the form 
contents as the body of the HTTP request. This would then make them 
available as the contents of a FieldStorage object *as well* as putting 
any that match your page function's argument names being included in the 
argument list. This is explained, though rather tersely, in

http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/hand-pub-alg-args.html

and

http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/hand-pub-alg-args.html

 > Since I am a newbie.. anything that works gets me excited. But please 
would you tell me is this how page navigation is accomplished in a 
professional page as well. This is the way to work with mod_python or is 
it a newbie way to work with mod_python.. :)
 >
I think most mod_python users use the publisher handler. I have written 
handlers myself, but Grisha told me I was abusing the request handler 
for the purposes I wanted to satisfy, and to use a fixup handler, so 
clearly I'm no expert. If you've got the sample fully working it might 
be an idea to submit it to see if it could be used as a sample in the 
documentation somewhere.

The world of the web is still pretty much a "do what works" community, 
but the techniques we have discussed will take you a long way.

Note, however, that it will be a good idea to get a better understanding 
of the underlying operation of the web (in terms of HTTP interactions) 
to better understand how to structure your sites, and what's going on 
under the hood.

You can do a lot without mod_python just by writing CGI scripts (in 
Python, naturally ;-) but no matter what's at either end of the link, in 
a web system they will be using HTTP to communicate.

regards
  Steve

[Sorry about the quoting, Mozilla crashed during the first send]
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Oct 15 14:23:03 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:23:03 -0700
Subject: automatic accessors to a member var dict elements?
In-Reply-To: <416f34af.287865508@news.oz.net>
References: <mailman.4968.1097781955.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mu7sfs68m1q28@corp.supernews.com>
	<416f34af.287865508@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <10n057f229egn30@corp.supernews.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:56:09 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
>[...]
>  
>
>>One problem with the way I'm doing things here is that, if you set a 
>>dict item to a value of None, the object will raise an AttributeError 
>>when trying to access that item.  This really ought to use a safer 
>>sentinel value.  (Check for a recent thread here in c.l.py about 
>>sentinel values and the use of object() as one.)
>>
>>    
>>
>Why not (untested) avoid the default sentinel and just translate
>a key error to an attribute error as above?
>  
>

Good point -- that makes this safer, cleaner, and more Pythonic.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it  Sat Oct  2 09:54:07 2004
From: NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 13:54:07 GMT
Subject: getrecursiondepth
References: <qebbl0l43c891b21udregn2pvj3phbfp90@4ax.com>
	<yMn5d.9974$gG4.9921@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<lf1dl0tqo6kui5gi2qmhgdqq0qdqfeqei0@4ax.com>
	<6fD5d.10550$gG4.6048@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<lhifl0969k5s8c87b9cg2pqrbe3in9oiv3@4ax.com>
	<Igg6d.12242$gG4.6109@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<bnfol0tf2q7e5d48p3pccs19c3ns6m6nme@4ax.com>
	<ifY6d.2976$Yr.655@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<76hql0pldetene06qqt10qk0kch82ju0if@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hjctl09jqaraadtvvfgmkbgigap0tf3ba3@4ax.com>

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:30:05 GMT, Manlio Perillo
<NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it> wrote:

>>> Sorry, I don't understand.
>>> Here is my_function:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> def my_function(a, b, *args, **kwargs):
>>> 	print 'a, b, args, kwargs:', a, b, args, kwargs
>>
>>That's not recursive, so I don't know how to
>>interpret your question.  
>
>This is only the function signature!
>The problem is that I can't do:
>
>def my_function(a, b, *args, **kwargs, __max_depth = 4): ...
>
>The only way is to do:
>def my_function(a, b, max_depth = 4, *args, **kwargs): ...
>
>But in this way max_depth is 'exposed' to public.
>In the first example it is private.
>

Sorry, forget about this post!



Regards   Manlio Perillo


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 13 07:12:00 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:12:00 +0200
Subject: checking invalid urls with ssl + python 2.1.3 on linux/windows
In-Reply-To: <416bcbd1$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
References: <416bcbd1$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <416d0f24$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

Josef Meile wrote:
 >
> [snip]
> 
> I searched on the newsgrous and found that timeoutsocket doesn't work 
> with ssl sockets. So, I tried with signal alarms and the httplib and it 
> succeeded on linux, but it doesn't work on windows because this os lacks 
> of "signal.SIGALRM" :-(. I now about "socket.setdefaulttimeout", but 
> this is a new feature and it doesn't exist on python 2.1.3 and I have to 
> provide compatibility to this version (zope 2.6.x uses it).

I gave up, I tried everything from timeoutsocket till threads, but it 
always hangs. Even with threads, it doesn't matter if they are set as 
daemons, the main thread will wait till the child threads are finished, 
thing that doesn't happen, so it just hangs. I search several 
alternatives and found that it is not a timeoutsocket problem. It seems 
to be a bug on the ssl sockets of 2.1.3. So, I guess I will have to 
avoid https url checking with this old python.

Regards,
Josef


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Sat Oct  9 22:04:16 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 22:04:16 -0400
Subject: help me
In-Reply-To: <3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>
	<3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>
Message-ID: <416898A0.3020906@kzoo.edu>

Marius Bernklev wrote:

>chrispatton at gmail.com (Chris Patton) writes:
>
>  
>
>>Hey everybody. I am writing a program that requires the user to make
>>the name for variables inside the program. For example:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>>exec raw_input()+' = 34'
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>However, I don't want to have to use the "exec" statement. Thanks for
>>any help!
>>    
>>
>
>Are you sure you don't want to use a plain dict for this?  And if so, why?
>
>
>  
>
Why don't you want to use exec? Just curious. That's the normal way to 
get a string to python code as far as I know.



From alia_khouri at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  3 10:05:50 2004
From: alia_khouri at yahoo.com (Alia)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 07:05:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
In-Reply-To: <m2mzz4ypax.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <20041003140550.25435.qmail@web60107.mail.yahoo.com>

--- John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> Read "Hackers and Painters" by Paul Graham, and then
> give copies to
> your developers.  He writes compellingly about the
> benefits of using
> python (or lisp) is a competitive environment.

Thanks. I thought Paul Graham was mostly a Lisp fiend,
but if he's covering python as well, I'll be sure to
add  this one to my list.

AK


		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
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From skip at pobox.com  Fri Oct 29 23:46:19 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:46:19 -0500
Subject: Finding the array index number for known content.
In-Reply-To: <3ir5o0djeqc4me3oh735oomvqijdanj63s@4ax.com>
References: <3ir5o0djeqc4me3oh735oomvqijdanj63s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16771.3723.643776.880000@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Phil> If I have an array holding a pair of numbers, and that pairing is
    Phil> unique, is there a way that I can find the array index number for
    Phil> that pair?

>From the "teach them to fish" department...

Python, being the introspective language that it is, helps you answer these
sorts of questions pretty easily.  Your question was in general, "is there a
way to do X with a list?".  The first step is to ask a list what it knows
about itself:

    % python
    Python 2.4b1 (#52, Oct 17 2004, 13:54:51) 
    [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1493)] on darwin
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> dir([])
    ['__add__', '__class__', '__contains__', '__delattr__', '__delitem__',
    '__delslice__', '__doc__', '__eq__', '__ge__', '__getattribute__',
    '__getitem__', '__getslice__', '__gt__', '__hash__', '__iadd__',
    '__imul__', '__init__', '__iter__', '__le__', '__len__', '__lt__',
    '__mul__', '__ne__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__',
    '__repr__', '__reversed__', '__rmul__', '__setattr__', '__setitem__',
    '__setslice__', '__str__', 'append', 'count', 'extend', 'index',
    'insert', 'pop', 'remove', 'reverse', 'sort'] 

Hmmm... there's an "index" attribute.  Let's see what that's all about:

    >>> help([].index)
    Help on built-in function index:

    index(...)
        L.index(value, [start, [stop]]) -> integer -- return first index of
        value

Looks promising (as Josiah already suggested it would be).

It's often also helpful to ask for help about an object's type (or class).
List objects are instances of the list type, and there is useful help about
it:

    >>> help(list)

    Help on class list in module __builtin__:

    class list(object)
     |  list() -> new list
     |  list(sequence) -> new list initialized from sequence's items
     |  
     |  Methods defined here:
     |  
     |  __add__(...)
     |      x.__add__(y) <==> x+y
     |  
     |  __contains__(...)
     |      x.__contains__(y) <==> y in x
     |  
     |  __delitem__(...)
     |      x.__delitem__(y) <==> del x[y]
     ...

The powers of the help builtin are available via the pydoc command as well,
e.g.: 

    % pydoc sys
    Help on built-in module sys:

    NAME
        sys

    FILE
        (built-in)

    MODULE DOCS
        http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-sys.html

    DESCRIPTION
        This module provides access to some objects used or maintained by
        the interpreter and to functions that interact strongly with the
        interpreter.
    ...

    % pydoc list
    Help on class list in module __builtin__:

    class list(object)
     |  list() -> new list
     |  list(sequence) -> new list initialized from sequence's items
     |  
    ...

Pydoc even supports a web server interface.  Try something like:

    pydoc -p 8709

then visit

    http://localhost:8709/

To find out about builtin types (and builtin objects in general), click the
__builtin__ link.  If you want help on a module the help displayed will
likely have a link to the relevant section of the standard documentation as
well.

Now go fish my son.  Don't come back until you have caught your limit of
rainbow trout...

Skip


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct 21 04:51:27 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:51:27 GMT
Subject: Method Underscores?
In-Reply-To: <cdJdd.5313$WN5.3726@trndny08>
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<mailman.5249.1098340790.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cdJdd.5313$WN5.3726@trndny08>
Message-ID: <jMKdd.3049$%h1.832@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Chris S. wrote:
 > Using method(object) instead of object.method() is
 > a throwback from Python's earlier non-object oriented days,

Pardon?  It's been O-O since at least version 0.9 over
10 years ago.

 > Personally, I'd
> like to see the use of underscores in name-mangling thrown out 
> altogether, as they "uglify" certain code and have no practical use in a 
> truly OO language, but I'm sure that's a point many will disagree with 
> me on.

I and others have made some comments already, but let me add
one more.

Given a C++ viewpoint, one way to think of Python programming
is that it's like template based programming.  The Python
function

def sum(data):
   x = iter(data)
   tot = x.next()
   for item in x:
     tot += item
   return tot

works on any data container so long as that container
can be iterated and its values can be summed.  (And the
container must have at least one item.)

 >>> sum(["This", "is", "a", "test"])
'Thisisatest'
 >>>

The way to do that in C++ is with a template.  I tried
to figure out how to do it but my C++ skills are about
8 years rusted.  Perhaps something like  .... ?

template <typename Container, typename T>
T sum(Container container) {
   T val;
   for (Container::const_iterator it = container.first();
        it != container.last(); ++it) {
     val += *it;
   }
   return val;
}

You would not do it using OO containers because then
you're left with Java-style casting everywhere.  (Sun
has added generics in the most recent version of Java.
See Bruce Eckel's commentary on the topic at
   http://www.mindview.net/WebLog )


If you accept that Python program has a strong template
aspect, in addition to O-O programming, then the builtins
like 'abs', 'cmp', etc. can be seen as generic algorithms
and not methods of a given data type.

Granted, some of the algorithms are trivial, as for
abs(), but the 'cmp()' algorithm is quite involved.

That means your statement, that these functions "have
no practical use in a truly OO language" is not applicable,
because Python is a mixed OO/imperative/template-based
programming language.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Mon Oct  4 11:28:31 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:28:31 +0200
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
In-Reply-To: <5eu732-2gg.ln1@suse.zobbo.org>
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4211.1096808398.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cjr4mp$dj0$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp> <5eu732-2gg.ln1@suse.zobbo.org>
Message-ID: <cjrq6v$12o$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp>

Ian J Cottee wrote:
> Daniel Dittmar wrote:
> 
>> On the other hand, Paul Graham paints Java programmers as dimwits. So 
>> quoting him is likely to start a flamewar. This is perhaps not the 
>> best choice from a diplomatic point of view.
> 
> 
> That is not what he said or meant. As he himself clarifies:
[...]
> programming language. And people don't learn Python because it will get 
> them a job; they learn it because they genuinely like to program and 
> aren't satisfied with the languages they already know.

But what if you already have a team of Java-only programmers and you try 
to switch them to Python? Then, this translates to:

 >>>
You only do programming as a job. You're not genuinely interested in 
programming or you wouldn't be satisfied with the language you already know.
<<<

Still doesn't sound much like a compliment.

Daniel


From brian at brianandkate.com  Mon Oct 11 19:06:23 2004
From: brian at brianandkate.com (brian)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:06:23 GMT
Subject: Creating new classes on the fly
References: <mailman.4376.1097009632.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2004101118040016807%brian@brianandkatecom>

On 2004-10-05 15:53:35 -0500, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> said:

> I need to create new classes on the fly with different default
> parameters, stored as class attributes. Of course, there's a reason
> behind it: I need new classes, because I need to be able to build
> multiple instances of them later. And I need new defaults, because the
> values can't be provided at instantiation time (because of scoping &
> mutability issues).
> 
> I've found two different ways to do it in the documentation:
> 
> new.classobj(name, baseclasses, dict)
> 
> and:
> 
> type(name, bases, dict)
> 
> I assume that both end up calling the same code, but I really don't
> know which one am I supposed to call, in terms of being the most
> 'pythonic' way. Are both the same? Is one of them preferred over the
> other?

What about using a factory method to do this for you (or have I once 
again misinterpeted the question).

Brian



From vincent at visualtrans.de  Wed Oct 27 15:55:03 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:55:03 +0200
Subject: look further down sys.path for extension module
In-Reply-To: <417fed58$0$605$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <clod7k$m55$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<417fed58$0$605$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <clouel$en2$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Vincent Wehren wrote:
> 
>> Is it possible to have Python look further down sys.path for a C
>> extension module when an ImportError is raised because of the "dynamic
>> module not implementing init function"?
> 
> 
> You could use the imp module to import zlib.pyd "manually". Then, when
> an "import zlib" occurs, it looks into sys.modules, finds that zlib is
> already there, and forgets about looking into sys.path.

This sounds like a viable option. We already have some special hooks to 
accomodate for using pywin32 from a network install so this would be 
something along those same lines.

 > Alternatively, you could rebuild zlib.pyd to be named pyzlib.pyd. You
> need to rebuild the code because you also need to rename the entry
> function, and the name of the module inside the module itself. You
> can then do
> 
> import pyzlib as zlib

Yes, quickly tried that, too. It still is registered in sys.modules as 
"pyzlib" - don't known if I expected that...


Thanks for your input!

--
Vincent Wehren


From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Oct  5 09:35:36 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:35:36 +0200
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
In-Reply-To: <du78yalh07m.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
	<fOu8d.25552$H11.796740@twister1.libero.it>
	<du78yalh07m.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <4162a301$0$278$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Ville Vainio wrote:
>>>>>>"gabriele" == gabriele renzi <rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it> writes:
> 
> 
>     gabriele> Russell Nelson ha scritto:
>     gabriele> I guess you could just use a shell like heredocument then:
>     gabriele> foo << marker
>     gabriele> string
>     gabriele> marker
> 
>     gabriele> why invent something new?
> 
> I'm speculating that this thread is an elaborate joke. I hope so at
> least.

Actually it is pretty interresting. Most likely it will not lead to 
anything usefull. But at least it will have been considdered.

This kind of quoting is not exactly new. It is allready used in 
multi-part MIME messages, where you define a boundary, that is a unique 
string and can look like so:

------_=_NextPart_001_01C4971F.E7E266DB

It makes it possible to send multiple binary files encoded as text, and 
still find the boundaries between them.

It is defined like this:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01C4971F.E7E266DB"


So being able to do the same in Python might have some value. At least 
you would be able to define all kind of strings the same way, and it's 
easy to understand.

But the 'delimiter' notation is a bit too clunky. Using ' and " is quite 
simple, and doesn't leave as much typographic noise.

If there was a smarter (shorter) notation, I think it would definitely 
be usefull.


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sat Oct 23 13:46:30 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:46:30 -0400
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Qd6dnUTV2ZBkBefcRVn-pg@giganews.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Not sure what example you mean:

http://www.divmod.org/Home/Projects/Nevow/

data/render methods

> But the point is, the logic
> is in the code, Python code well out of this HTML file; the role of the
> template is to provide the HTML basis, and tag where the current data
> comes from, which method renders it

The render_colorful method creates a new attribute "color" that
was not specified in the template. They may have moved all python
out from HTML but surely did not move out all HTML from the
python code.

I would argue that this is not templating in the way
people use this term. Here the "color" attribute just
appears from thin air.

I stick to my opinion that every framework must allow one to bend
the rules because in real situations one cannot always choose
*the right thing*.  What nevow seems to be doing is bend
them by allowing  HTML to be moved into python,
or to say it more nicely, by allowing python to modify
the template document object model (DOM).

Istvan.


From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Sun Oct 24 20:00:32 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:00:32 -0400
Subject: project
Message-ID: <417C4220.2080509@fastmail.fm>

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you.  I have been rather busy and have 
been unable to work on your problem for you.  Nevertheless, it is 
possible for you to do what you wish.  Ask Jeff Epler (he replied to you 
as well) about his solution which you will need to combine with an audio 
conversion module (I suggest PyMedia, pop it into Google) so that within 
the algorithm, each wav file is converted immediately to an mp3 file 
then joined according to the logic of the algorithm.  Alternatively you 
could join all 10 waves then convert that to mp3, then the algorithm 
loops and performs the same operation on a different set of ten wave 
files. 

It is a simple procedure, and should not be much trouble.   You will 
just need to check out the pydocs on random number generation, talk to 
Jeff and python-list, join the PyMedia mailing-list (this is necessary 
bc. the docs are not very comprehensive), and do the math (you may need 
to perform calculations according to the quality of mp3 or ogg desired 
taking into account limitations of hard drive space (or other target 
storage medium) and any other factors I happened to forget).

Good luck!


From whereU at now.com  Tue Oct  5 01:56:41 2004
From: whereU at now.com (Eric Pederson)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:56:41 -0800
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
Message-ID: <20041004215641.266008304.whereU@now.com>

Russell Nelson wrote:

> If you need to put a single quote in, then you put
> an arbitrary string in-between the single quotes which does NOT
> appear in the string.  For example, "Bill's house" becomes
> 'x'Bill's house'x'.


So possible examples might be:

'xx'somebody's mother'xx'
'xy'somebody's father'xy'
'wink'somebody's uncle'wink'
'quote'somebody's body'quote'

not terrible easy on the eyes, and why use the single quote at all?  Why not use a similar pattern like this

<quote>somebody's body<quote>

or would we then worry that we might want to quote some angle bracketed mark-up?

it seems like the problem is what to use as a unique delimiter.  Personally I am all for using u5421 [&#5421;], but I suspect we might risk the ire of Nanuk.  So rather than going TMTOWTDI  with 'x' and  'earl' and 'ernie' why don't we declare a new unicode symbol for quoting (how do you draw an endless loop graphic?)?

Of course, when we need to quote some text which uses the new quoting unicode symbol...

we'll just escape it with a \.



[I like '''triple quotes''' though if they ever catch on in the mainstream, they'll be useless - because they will wind up in strings]




Eric Pederson
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
domainNot="@something.com"
domainIs=domainNot.replace("s","z")
ePrefix="".join([chr(ord(x)+1) for x in "do"])
mailMeAt=ePrefix+domainIs
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Oct 26 17:36:29 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J Lee)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:36:29 +0100
Subject: ClientCookie problem - Difference between 'post' on the local
 network and the internet
In-Reply-To: <4178F159.7060100@mxm.dk>
References: <4178F159.7060100@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410262229480.6114@alice>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Max M wrote:

> I kept getting "HTTP Error 400: Bad Request" errors when submitting my 
> forms. So I boiled it down to a simple example.
[...]
> #########################################
> 
> import ClientCookie, urllib
[...]
> urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 400: Bad Request

I'm not certain this is the problem fuzzyman refers to.

Thanks for sample, but I get NameError instead, so your script needs
fixing before I can easily investigate:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/john/bin/tst.py", line 59, in ?
    print login(came_from, login_form)
  File "/home/john/bin/tst.py", line 42, in login
    data = {
NameError: global name 'name' is not defined


John


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Tue Oct 26 05:14:03 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:14:03 +0100
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <Z8ofd.2777$kM.174@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<clkvab$1dc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<Z8ofd.2777$kM.174@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cll4gr$crc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
> Neither show much troll-like behavior.
> 
> My guess is the not unusual case of someone who works mostly alone
> and doesn't have much experience in diverse projects nor working
> with more experience people.

Perhaps. Maybe I have just been spending too much time in troll-infested 
forums, which sets one's troll-o-meter off a lot earlier.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Fri Oct 29 21:47:57 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:47:57 -0700
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
	<mailman.5652.1099050368.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ueq45F2a9e6eU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<6c6a52-r5t.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<clu3cd$oe$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.10.30.00.47.53.108306@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <gr8b52-uc.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> I would point out the XML-RPC is built on HTTP and XML and
> theoretically inherits the benefits and disadvantages of both.

The default implementation uses HTTP as a transport, but that is
not a requirement.  You just have to be able to serialise the request
and response parameters into an XML stream.  The xmlrplic loads and
dumps functions will do that for you.

In one of my projects I actually use XML-RPC over SSH and deal with
the authentication etc at the SSH level.  (I use the excellent pure
Python paramiko library for the SSH protocol part).

Roger 




From jfabiani at yolo.com  Thu Oct 21 11:34:17 2004
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:34:17 GMT
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
References: <mailman.5254.1098346524.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZFQdd.8495$6q2.7811@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

Great idea and about time.  Python needs some type of default SQL engine.  I
have not reviewed what you are doing but may I suggest you take a look at
what VFP did with it's built-in data engine.  VFP uses the concept of a
cursor along with many built-in commands/functions/statements to work with
the data.  

My only question is what happens when SQLLite becomes out of favor i.e. TK
is today?

John



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 05:43:34 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:43:34 +0200
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted
	Data	Chunk Efficiently
References: <ba1e306f.0410050212.3b592313@posting.google.com>
	<2sgc66F1enc5nU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<ba1e306f.0410071919.7defa4a9@posting.google.com>
	<7xhdp5c206.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.4546.1097207828.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glc4z2.kc2j86lfi22oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> > > Another problem is, the list update action could take a long time and
> > > big memory. The list could shrink and expand. Do I have to sort them
> > > all in memory and then update the textfile _everytime_ it's changed?
> > 
> > I don't understand this thread.  If you're trying to implement a real
> > system, why don't you use MySQL?  You're at nowhere near the traffic
> > level where that approach runs out of gas.
> 
> Or even the included bsddb.btree database (remember to translate to/from
> strings, open using bsddb.btopen() ).

But, given a bsdsb btree with, say, 10,000 entries in it (in virtually
sorted order), how does one speedily say "get entries 4020 to 4030", for
example?  That was the original poster's problem as originally posed.
If you call somedb.set_location(4020), you learn that integer keys are
only allowed for Recno and Queue DBs, not for BTree ones...

I think the crucial step (with current versions of bsddb) is to have
btflags=bsddb.db.DB_RECNUM at creation time; then, say xx is the
variable that's your database, xx.dbc.set_recno(4019) should position
the cursor as required.  Sleepycat does warn that DB_RECNUM can degrade
performance for some applications, though, so be sure to do some
benchmarks if you want to do things this way.


Alex


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Oct  4 22:01:46 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:01:46 -0700
Subject: detecting socket in use on localhost
In-Reply-To: <cjr8uv$osk$1@news.tudelft.nl>
References: <cjqssg$bh7$1@news.tudelft.nl>
	<1gl4lmg.1das1ob1esi359N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cjr140$jde$1@news.tudelft.nl>
	<1gl4rpq.12u4nyvzumwjlN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cjr8uv$osk$1@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <41620461$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Berends wrote:
> Wrote the code. Seems to be working just fine:
> 
> [code]
> def determineAvailablePort():
>     t = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>     t.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
> 
>     # Set the first port to bind to, to the minimum port in the range.
>     prt = 16000
>     isConnected = False
>     while not isConnected:
>         try:
>             t.bind( (myInfo["host"], prt ) )
>             isConnected = True
>             t.close()
>             del t
>         except socket.error:
>             prt += 1
>             if prt > 16029:
>                 raise Exception
> 
>     return prt
> [/code]

You might want to hang on to the port, so that you don't get race 
conditions where you determine the port and then some other process
grabs it.

Something like:

def determineAvailablePort(host='localhost'):
     skt = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
     skt.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)

     # Set the first port to bind to, to the minimum port in the range.
     for prt in range(16000, 16030):
         try:
             t.bind((host, prt))
         except socket.error:
	    pass
         else:
             return skt, prt
     raise Exception, 'No port in 16000:16030 available'

Where the caller uses the opened socket.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 17:20:10 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:20:10 +0200
Subject: How can I make an existing object read-only?
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote:

> Maybe I'm way off track here, but I want to do something like this:
> 
> Say I have an object that's initialized with a bunch of attributes.
> I want to pass the object to a piece of code that is not allowed
> to add/delete/set attributes on this object.
> When control returns, the code is again allowed to make changes
> to the object.

Instead of passing the bare object, pass it wrapped into something like:

class nowrite:
    def __init__(self, obj): self.__dict__['_obj'] = obj
    def __getattr__(self, n): return getattr(self._obj, n)
    def __setattr__(self, n, *args): raise AttributeError, n
    __delattr__ = __setattr__

Of course this only helps avoid accidents, it doesn't give security
against malicious attacks (there's no known way to do that today in
Python).  I'm also assuming that the "piece of code" IS allowed to
access any attribute and call any method of obj (including methods which
might internally set attributes, whatever), if you want to add further
prohibitions that shouldn't be too hard, though.


Alex


From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Sun Oct 17 04:40:56 2004
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:40:56 +0200
Subject: Anything like 'inspect.getsourceencoding()'?
References: <mailman.5069.1097979276.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20041017084056.7100.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> Is there a convenient way to find the encoding of a source file?  I
> thought maybe this would be in the inspect module, but I didn't see it
> there.  Just as nice would be a way to get the file as a unicode string,
> I suppose.
> 
> (This is related to another thread I've recently posted to, where
> another user was having trouble with pydoc's links to source files using
> the file: protocol.  I suggested having pydoc serve the source files,
> and provided a patch, but it's crossed my mind that it would be nice to
> tell the browser the encoding of that file.
> 
> Jeff

According to Python documentation:

It is possible to use encodings different than ASCII in Python source files.
The best way to do it is to put one more special comment line right after
the #! line to define the source file encoding: 

# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-


-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl

How can you be ALONE with somebody? Think about it...


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Oct 22 12:37:09 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:37:09 -0500
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41793735.5020108@colorstudy.com>

Shufen wrote:
> Can someone who has use PHP before and know quite well about the
> language, tell me what are the stuffs that Python offers and PHP
> doesn't. A few examples will be nice. I know about the date format
> problem which PHP is having but I need more examples. Thank you for
> any help.

Well, in general I'd say Python is better than PHP at pretty much 
everything but:
* Regularly available on commercial hosts
* Unified basis for web development (there's still a lot of MVC-like 
frameworks built on PHP, but they share more in common than in Python)
* Always uses a multiprocess model that both protects against bugs (or 
at least, your server stays up no matter how buggy your PHP app or 
libraries), and not too inefficient (like CGI).
* Easy to install and administer PHP applications; there can be a lot of 
  nuisances when installing Python web applications, like sys.path etc.

When it comes to all the more general things, Python beats PHP on pretty 
much everything.  Python has a clear and general object model -- PHP is 
just starting to add some more generic things to its object model, like 
operator overloading, and computed attributes.  It still falls way short 
of even the earliest versions of Python.  I'll only briefly mention the 
amateurish object implementation that requires assigning intermediate 
objects to variables; I don't even understand what hackery caused that 
misfeature.

Python doesn't have references (except that everything is implicitly a 
reference), which is 100% a feature -- references are a horrible idea. 
PHP seems to be moving away from references in version 5 as well. 
Everything in Python is call-by-reference.

Python has namespaces and good modularity.

Python doesn't muck up quoting.  PHP's magic quotes are bizarre and 
dangerous, IMHO.  They were a way of making up for PHP's sloppiness in 
other areas.  It never folds things into the namespace like PHP -- 
again, PHP programmers are moving away from this.

Well, that's just a short list.  Just about everything you can think of, 
Python is arguably better than PHP.  Except for the web programming 
environments -- which have their benefits in Python, but it forces you 
to make a lot of choices and compromises that would be better forgotten. 
    But we're finally making some progress in Python to fix that 
situation.  (Incidentally, I work full time doing Python web 
programming, and I've done a fair amount of PHP programming in the past 
as well.)

At the same time, there's still a lot of really good PHP applications, 
which is a testament to the language.  Any language where people can do 
good work is a good language; and while PHP's advantages over Python 
seem small, I think the evidence shows that they are quite significant.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 17:09:48 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:09:48 GMT
Subject: Retrieving the full path of Unix apps
In-Reply-To: <cjuu5v$2n7$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>
References: <cjuu5v$2n7$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <w4E8d.3629$UP1.2214@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Lorin Hochstein wrote:
> I'd like to retrieve the full path of an arbitrary program on a Unix 
> system (e.g. gcc). What's the nicest way to do this? Currently I'm 
> invoking the "which" program and parsing what it outputs to determine if 
> the output looks like a path.

Here's an incomplete implementation of 'which'

import os

def is_executable(filename):
      # Placeholder: not sure how to do this
      return 1

def which(app):
      dirnames = os.environ["PATH"].split(os.path.pathsep)
      for dirname in dirnames:
           filename = os.path.join(dirname, app)
           if (os.path.exists(filename) and
               os.path.isfile(filename) and
               is_executable(filename)):
                return filename
      return None

 >>> print which("ls")
/bin/ls
 >>> print which("qwerty")
None
 >>> print which("python")
/usr/local/bin/python
 >>>

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com




From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct 12 21:48:48 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:48:48 -0400
Subject: School Project, Need Help Fast!
In-Reply-To: <20041012180023.0915.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <000801c4b0a8$e550f960$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>	<416C7F32.2040807@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041012180023.0915.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <416C8980.6080505@cloudthunder.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>>>I understand that there are better ways, but I'm looking for easier... Do
>>>you have any ideas about the DOS preferences problem?
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>What do you mean easier?  Using a dictionary is real easy.
>>    
>>
>
>Yeah, but he didn't seem to know about dictionaries.
>
> - Josiah
>
>  
>
Here is a great tutorial on dictionaries for him, should only take him 
10-15 minutes (or less) to grasp it for his needs.
http://www.dickbaldwin.com/python/Pyth0064.htm


From rupole at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 25 20:03:35 2004
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:03:35 -0400
Subject: QueryInterface on IDispatch in Python ...
References: <584da15e.0410241538.3830b170@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417d9230$1_2@127.0.0.1>

You should be able to use Dispatch to get the desired interface,
something like this:
win32com.client.Dispatch(element, None, 
IID('{3050F1FF-98B5-11CF-BB82-00AA00BDCE0B}')
    hth
       Roger

"Peter Sparago" <psparago at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:584da15e.0410241538.3830b170 at posting.google.com...
>I am working with the MSHTML editor control. I used
> win32com.client.gencache.EnsureModule on the MSHTML type library to
> generate the necessary IDispatch support for all the various
> interfaces used by MSHTML.
>
> I have just implemented some of the necessary custom COM
> interfaces/gateways to allow me to take control of MSHTML's
> right-click menu.
>
> One of the callbacks that MSHTML makes (and I've implemented) is
> 'ShowContextMenu' (on the IDocHostUIHandler interface). One of the
> arguments passed to ShowContextMenu is a generic IDispatch reference
> to the current HTML Element - ultimately this is an IHTMLElement
> interface reference.
>
> Python understands that this reference passed to 'ShowContextMenu' is
> an IDispatch interface but when I do a QueryInterface on this object
> to get the IHTMLElement interface (like so:)
>
> element = 
> dispElement.QueryInterface(IID('{3050F1FF-98B5-11CF-BB82-00AA00BDCE0B}'))
>
> I get the following error:
>
> exceptions.TypeError: {There is no interface object registered that
> supports this IID}
>
> What am I doing wrong? IHTMLElement *is* defined in the module .py
> file that was generated by EnsureModule from the type library,
> IHTMLElement is derived from IDispatch. Shouldn't I be able to make
> late-bound calls on the generic IDispatch reference?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. 




From mauriceling at acm.org  Wed Oct 13 17:48:49 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:48:49 GMT
Subject: differentially loading a class at runtime
Message-ID: <416da2bd$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>

Hi,

In normal circumstances, we know exactly which class to load and use 
using compile time. But I am now faced with a situation whereby I need 
to load a class differentially at runtime (the user can define which 
class to load).

For example:

class a:
	......

class b:
	......

allowed = ['a', 'b']

'allowed' list will store the names of the alternative classes to use. 
The alternative classes have the same set of methods but different 
implementations.

How can I differentially use the classes at runtime?

Thanks
Maurice


From rstephens at vectron.com  Sun Oct 31 06:36:29 2004
From: rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: 31 Oct 2004 03:36:29 -0800
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...
	python on ?)
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
	<sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <a5415304.0410310336.485cfc81@posting.google.com>

""I think a search for "enterprise application framework Python"
would probably turn up at least one of them.""

Hmm, indeed, that search practically screamed Peak, the Python
Enterprise Application Kit, which looks fascinating at
http://peak.telecommunity.com/ . Does anyone have any experience with
PEAK or knowledge about it?

Ron Stephens


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct  9 02:48:37 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 08:48:37 +0200
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ck5neo$t2n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4565.1097229132.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ck63hc$7fe$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1glcpp5.1y8vujt1bx0uttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ck81jm$638$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>    ...
>> Looking at it from another angle, the initial for-loop ist just a
>> peculiar way to deal with an empty iterable. So the best (i. e. clear,
>> robust and general) approach is probably
>> 
>> items = iter(...)
>> try:
>>     first = items.next()
>> except StopIteration:
>>     # deal with empty iterator, e. g.:
>>     raise ValueError("need at least one item")
>> else:
>>     # process remaining data
> 
> I think it can't be optimal, as coded, because it's more nested than it
> needs to be (and "flat is better than nested"): since the exception
> handler doesn't fall through, I would omit the try statement's else
> clause and outdent the "process remaining data" part.  The else clause
> would be needed if the except clause could fall through, though.

I relied more on the two letters 'e. g.' than I should have as there are two
different aspects I wanted to convey:

1. Don't let the StopIteration propagate:

items = iter(...)
try:
    first = items.next()
except StopIteration:
    raise MeaningfulException("clear indication of what caused the error")

2. General structure when handling the first item specially:

items = iter(...)
try:
   first = items.next()
except StopIteration:
   # handle error
else:
   # a. code relying on 'first'
# b. code independent of 'first' or relying on the error handler
#    defining a proper default.

where both (a) and (b) are optional. 

As we have now two variants, I have to drop the claim to generality.
Regarding the Zen incantation, "flat is better than nested", I tend measure
nesting as max(indent level) rather than avg(), i. e. following my (perhaps
odd) notion the else clause would affect nesting only if it contained an
additional if, for, etc. Therefore I have no qualms to sometimes use else
where it doesn't affect control flow:

def whosAfraidOf(color):
    if color == red:
        return peopleAfraidOfRed
    else:
        # if it ain't red it must be yellow - nobody's afraid of blue
        return peopleAfraidOfYellow

as opposed to

def whosAfraidOf(color):
    if color == red:
        return peopleAfraidOfRed
    return peopleAfraidOfAnyOtherColor

That said, usually my programs have bigger problems than the above subtlety.

Peter




From export at hope.cz  Wed Oct 20 02:43:29 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 23:43:29 -0700
Subject: Threads running in different web browser windows
References: <81a41dd.0410190115.40c63b6@posting.google.com>
	<Xns958795C60E838cpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410192243.27f0efc2@posting.google.com>

Harald Massa <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote in message news:<Xns958795C60E838cpl19ghumspamgourmet at 195.20.224.116>...
> > I would like to use httplib/urllib to download webpages from 3
> > different websites.From my script
> > I want to open 3 webbrowser windows( 3 threads) and open in each
> > thread( window)  pages from a particular website.
> > Is it possible to do that in Python?
> Yes, it is possible to do that in Python. 
> 
> Best wishes, 
> 
> Harald

And any idea how? I do not know how I can open ( from a running script
in one webbrowser window)a new webbrowser window and  start another
script in that new window. Can you please help?
Thanks
Lad


From paul at subsignal.org  Sun Oct  3 10:21:36 2004
From: paul at subsignal.org (paul koelle)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 16:21:36 +0200
Subject: newbie permission problem
In-Reply-To: <azO7d.404372$8_6.311894@attbi_s04>
References: <wAL7d.99503$wV.12017@attbi_s54> <7sN7d.593248$gE.589623@pd7tw3no>
	<PUN7d.296691$mD.66455@attbi_s02>
	<azO7d.404372$8_6.311894@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <2sag7sF1icj7uU1@uni-berlin.de>

Ann wrote:

> How can I just use
> im = Image.open("filename.jpg")
> without having to use a fp

im = open('filename.jpg', 'rb').read()

hth
  Paul


From emayo at home.com  Sun Oct 24 21:33:17 2004
From: emayo at home.com (Pater Maximus)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:33:17 -0400
Subject: How can I do French and English Spell Checking using MS Word
	from Python
References: <mailman.5307.1098435557.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TJudnUV9SMhAyuHcRVn-2g@comcast.com>

First, muchas gracias to Tim and Roger. My conclusions follow:

* Tim's code works great for French and English, two languages that were
part of my initial install of Word 2000. But only after I brought up an
instance of Word as Roger suggested.

However, it did not work for German which was installed at a later date.
When I ran it, you could see the German words appearing in the Word window
and being spell checked. Also, a query of the LanguageID showed it set to
German. But a call to SpellCheck only showed English words as being correct.
In other words it appears that spell checking was using a German dictionary
from the Word side and an English dictionary for my program.

After poking around on the web I was able to coble together the following
code for German that worked but was dog slow and got slower as spell
checking progressed. It took about 20 minutes to check 160,000 words in
English and in French using Tim's method. It took four hours for 160,000
German words with three restarts to get the program to pick up the pace.

<some code here>
msword = win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch ("Word.Application")
msword.Visible=0
wordDoc=msword.Documents.Add()
msword.Selection.NoProofing=False
msword.Selection.LanguageID = win32com.client.constants.wdGerman
s = wordDoc.Sentences(1)
for line in inputFile:
    if count%1000==0:
        MainDict = msword.Languages(msword.Selection.LanguageID).NameLocal
        print 'LanguageID=',msword.Selection.LanguageID,' Main
Dictionary=',MainDict
        print 'count=',count,' correct=',correct,'
CorrectCaps=',correctCaps,' CorrectLower=',correctLower,'
Misspelled=',misspelled
    count+=1
    orig = line.split(',')
    word=orig[1]
    word=word.lower()
    s.Text = word #try lower case first
    colSpellErrors = wordDoc.SpellingErrors;
    if colSpellErrors.Count == 0:
        correctLower+=1
        scrubbedFile.write(orig[0]+','+word+','+orig[2]+','+orig[3])
        continue
    word=word.capitalize()
    s.Text = word #see if capitalizing corrects spelling
    colSpellErrors = wordDoc.SpellingErrors;
    if colSpellErrors.Count == 0:
        correctCaps+=1
        scrubbedFile.write(orig[0]+','+word+','+orig[2]+','+orig[3])
        continue
    misspelled+=1
    misspelledFile.write(line)
<more code here>

I know there must be a better way and would be interested in finding it out.
However, I now have spell checked English, French, and German words lists
and the problem is thankfully behind me.

Thanks again...

You can check out the application that I need French, English, and Greman
for at
http://got2know.net/




From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct 26 01:51:04 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:51:04 GMT
Subject: Reading XML like Python!
In-Reply-To: <2u61uaF2712ksU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534@posting.google.com>
	<2u61uaF2712ksU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cBlfd.7582$KJ6.1228@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

bowman wrote:
> I don't know what your XML data is, but an XSLT stylesheet and xsltproc will 
> turn it into about anything you want.

But if the OP thinks "XML is hard on my eyes" then
I suspect the stylesheet itself, written as it is in XML,
would be similarly hard on the eyes.

I know I don't like reading XSLT.  Also in part because
I don't have much experience with functional programming
languages.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From b.niemann at betternet.de  Fri Oct 29 10:45:30 2004
From: b.niemann at betternet.de (Benjamin Niemann)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:45:30 +0200
Subject: deleting elements from a list in a for loop
In-Reply-To: <Risgd.3548$7R7.154746@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <Risgd.3548$7R7.154746@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <cltkqk$rmd$1@online.de>

flupke wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> i'm having trouble with deleting elements from a list in a for loop
> 
> ============== test program ==============
> el = [ "one", "two", "three", "four" ]
> print "**** Start ****"
> print "List = %s " % el
> index = 0
> for line in el:
>     print "    el = %s " % line
>     if ( index == 1 ):
>         print "    deleting %s " % line
>         del el[index]
>     else:
>         index += 1
> print "**** After delete ****"
> print "List = %s " % el
> 
> print "**** After adding two ****"
> el.append("two")
> print "List = %s " % el
> ============== test program ==============
> 
> This is the output that i get
> **** Start ****
> List = ['one', 'two', 'three', 'four']
>     el = one
>     el = two
>     deleting two
>     el = four
>     deleting four
> **** After delete ****
> List = ['one', 'four']
> **** After adding two ****
> List = ['one', 'four', 'two']
> 
> After deleting it doesn't go to element "three". Why is that?
> How can i safely delete from a list?
> The reason is that i'm currently making an application to manage my 
> links. I write a couple of links to the screen in a listbox (wxPython) 
> and thus i delete those links that appear on screen from the list 
> because people will be able to edit them.
> Then when they move to another link section, i write the content of the 
> listbox back to the list. But as i've illustrated in the small example 
> my coding is flawed.
> 
> Thanks,
> Benedict

If it doesn't matter in which order you scan the list:

for idx in xrange(len(el), -1, -1):
     element = el[idx]
     if ....:
         del el[idx]

By running from end to start of the list, a "del" won't affect later iterations 
of the loop.
Generally: you shouldn't modify a list while doing a "for a in el:" - this just 
causes confusion (as you've already seen ;)


From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Sat Oct 16 05:45:16 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:45:16 GMT
Subject: undefined variable ?
In-Reply-To: <ckqqlb$l0v$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <ckqqlb$l0v$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <M46cd.160$TU5.15@trndny06>

vertigo wrote:

> Hello
> How can i check if variable named var1 exists ?

if 'var1' in globals():
     ...


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Oct 13 08:34:19 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:34:19 -0400
Subject: convert string to list
In-Reply-To: <1097669701.12092.62.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
	<1097669701.12092.62.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <416D20CB.5000608@bellsouth.net>

Cliff Wells wrote:

>On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 14:03 +0200, Jochen Hub wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I am a real beginner in Python and I was wondering if there is a way to 
>>convert a string (which contains a list) to a "real" list.
>>
>>I need this since I would like to give a list as an argument to my 
>>Python script from the bash:
>>
>>#!/usr/bin/python
>>import sys
>>argument1 = sys.argv[1]
>>thelist = ???(argument1)
>>
>>and then call the script from the bash like this
>>
>>thescript.py ["A","B","C"]
>>    
>>
>
>You can use eval for this.  Better, you could simply pass your list as a
>series of arguments from bash:
>
>#!/bin/bash
>myscript.py A B C
>
>
>#!/usr/bin/python
>import sys
>thelist = sys.argv[1:]
>
>Regards,
>Cliff
>
>  
>
As Cliff and Diez stated, you're better off passing your list as 
elements broken up and using sys.argv to get at them.  But, here is a 
sample of how to use eval:

#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys
import string

print "sys.argv>>", sys.argv
if len(sys.argv) > 1:
    s = "".join(sys.argv[1:])
    l = eval(s)
    for i, e in enumerate(l):
        print i, e


A problem with this approach is, you need to make sure you put your list 
string in quotes like this:

./test_list.py "['a', 'b', 'c']"

so that the list is treated by the shell as a single argument rather 
than  a series of strings.  And, actually, the "[" character is actually 
an executable (on *NIX operatins systems) that performs all kinds of 
"tests" So, I don't think the shell will substitute it for anything, 
but......you may not want to just leave it out unquoted.....  Plus, if 
you don't quote the whole thing, your shell may gobble up your quote 
marks and you won't get exactly what you're looking for.  Look at your 
sys.argv.  The quotes around the letters are gone, gobbled up by the shell:

[jmjones at qatestrunner python]$ ./test_list.py ['a','b','c']
sys.argv>> ['./test_list.py', '[a,b,c]']
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./test_list.py", line 12, in ?
    l = eval(s)
  File "<string>", line 0, in ?
NameError: name 'a' is not defined


So, again, you're probably best to go with the solution proposed by 
Cliff and Diez.


Jeremy Jones
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From mrovner at propel.com  Fri Oct 22 15:31:33 2004
From: mrovner at propel.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:31:33 -0700
Subject: backslash plague
In-Reply-To: <2tt4b2F24cffeU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2tt4b2F24cffeU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <clbn3t$pdr$1@sea.gmane.org>

Luis P. Mendes wrote:

> I've already read many pages on this but I'm not able to separate the
> string 'R0\1.2646\1.2649\D' in four elements, using the \ as the separator.
> 
> a='R0\1.2644\1.2344\D'

a=r'R0\1.2644\1.2344\D'

> re.sub(r'\'','ff',a)  does nothing

 >>> re.sub(r'\\\\','ff',a)
'R0ff1.2644ff1.2344ffD'

and also

 >>> a.replace('\\','ff')
'R0ff1.2644ff1.2344ffD'

You said, you wanna _split_ them:

 >>> a.split('\\')
['R0', '1.2644', '1.2344', 'D']

HTH,
Mike



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 11 18:11:11 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:11:11 GMT
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416af306.8912565@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:36:21 -0400, "Clark C. Evans" <cce at clarkevans.com> wrote:

>What? is lambda is going away?  Say it ain't so!
>
>On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 08:26:19AM +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
I didn't write the following, I replied to it. Note the extra quoting level.
You are quoting Steven Bethard. See
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list%40python.org
 ;-)

>| >f = lambda args: body
>| >   is equivalent to
>| >def f(args): body
>
It really should be
    f = lambda args: expr
is equivalent to
    def f(args): return expr
except for little details like f.__name__ and perhaps vestigial unexecuted
byte code in the def version, until someone thinks it's worth the bother to optimize out.

>Not really -- the item above is _bad style_, people write,
>
>  def f(args):
>      body
>
>|    obj.f = lambda args: body
>
>Or more commonly,
commonly compared to what? obj.f = ... ?
>
>  func(arg, lambda args: body)
>
>| I'd rather use lambda.
That line I wrote, though the context is snipped ;-)

>
>No joke.  For the common case above, which occurs _everywhere_ 
>in my 'deferred execution' code, one would write:
>
>   def somerandomname(args):
>       body
>   func(arg, somerandomname)
>
>So, you've taken something that is a perfectly clear one-liner and
>converted it into a 3 line chunk of code with _zero_ added clarity,
>in fact, I'd say you've dramatically reduced clarity by requiring
>the a name be 'minted'.  Ugly.  Multiply this by 10x in one of my
>source files and you've taken something perfectly readable and
>turned it into maze of confusion.  This _hides_ the true intent
>rather than making it clear that the function is temporary thingy.
>
[Not Bengt]
>| >Not that it's coming any time soon, but Python 3000 is supposed to remove 
>| >lambda functions
>
>Expect me to whine very loudly on a daily basis when Python 3000 
>becomes near.  In fact, let the preemptive supplication begin.
>
[Bengt]
>| Well, if lambda is removed (or not ;-), I hope an anonymous def 
>| expression is allowed, so we can write
>| 
>|    obj.f = def(args):
>|                body
>| or
>| 
>|    obj.f = def(args): body
>| 
>| or
>| 
>|    obj.f = (
>|        def(args):
>|            body
>|    ) 
>
>Ewww.  How is this better than lambda? Let's keep lambda, no?
>
Sure, lambda is fine, but it doesn't allow statements, so something
like def is needed. Just dropping the def name and allowing the
def statement to be an expression seemed an easy step, since the
name is basically the only difference.

As seen above, finding an indentation style that is easy to read is
a challeng, especially if the anonymous def is a middle argument to
a functions call, e.g.,

    func(arg1, (def(x): print x), arg3)

much as with lambda, you may need parentheses to show where the expression ends.
For a more complex def, we get into multiple lines in the arg list, e.g.,
expanded,

    func(
        arg1,   # use a new line to get consistent indenting of arg list items
        (def(x, base=10):
            """even anonymous defs could have doc strings"""
            return int(x+'0', base) # weird function
        ),
        arg3
    )

or, more compactly,

    func(arg1,
         def(x, base=10):
             """even anonymous defs could have doc strings"""
              return int(x+'0', base) # weird function
         ,arg3)

It's a tough style problem. But what would you do with lambda, given that
we don't have lots of insignificant silly parentheses?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Sat Oct 30 11:12:15 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:12:15 +0200
Subject: Problems with profiling results (hotshot or normal) : almost all
 are incorrect
Message-ID: <4183af4f$0$566$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Okay I tried some profiling, but am uncertain about the
results I'm getting. They confuse the hell out of me.

I have a test program (see below) that essentially has
two loops that get called repeatedly. One that is an idle
wait loop, and one that is a busy-wait CPU hogger.
I wanted to see what profiling results that would give.
The total runtime of the program is 10 seconds, where 5
seconds are spent in the CPU-loop and 5 seconds in the idle
wait loop.

But what I'm getting is not what I expected.

For instance, with python2.3.4 on windows, it says:
(hotshot:)  21 function calls in 35.772 CPU seconds
(normal: )  23 function calls in 10.008 CPU seconds
Python 2.4b1 on windows gives:
(hotshot:)  21 function calls in 0.001 CPU seconds
(normal: )  260362 function calls in 6.724 CPU seconds

I know that timing information on Windows is sometimes
difficult to get, but the above is really weird. Anyway
so I also tried it on my Linux (mandrake 10) computer:

Python 2.3.4 on linux:
(hotshot:)  21 function calls in 17.542 CPU seconds
(normal: )  23 function calls in 5.000 CPU seconds
Python 2.4b1 on linux:
(hotshot:) 21 function calls in 0.000 CPU seconds
(normal: ) 52474 function calls in 1.650 CPU seconds

Conclusion: only *one* of the above test runs gives the
right summary (in my opinion): the normal profiler of
python 2.3.4 on linux (5 CPU seconds).
The normal profiler of python 2.3.4 on windows also counts
the idle loop time apparently, and gives 10 CPU seconds.
But all the others are waaaay off!

(and I haven't event talked about the detailed function
call profiling statistics).

Can anybody please help me out? Am I doing something wrong,
or is the profiler just not reliable yet?

Confused-ly y'rs,
--Irmen de Jong


PS using the 'time' command on linux, when running the test
program, gives 0:20.19elapsed 50%CPU which is what I expected.


-------------------- test program ---------------
import time

def foo():
     # idle wait loop
     time.sleep(0.5)
def bar():
     # busy (CPU) wait loop
     s=time.time()
     while time.time()<(s+0.5):
         pass

def test():
     for i in range(10):
         foo()
         bar()

if __name__=="__main__":
     import hotshot, hotshot.stats, wait
     import profile, pstats

     print "HOTSHOT profiling..."
     prof = hotshot.Profile("wait.prof")
     prof.runcall(wait.test)
     prof.close()
     print "PROFILE DONE"
     stats = hotshot.stats.load("wait.prof")
     stats.strip_dirs()
     stats.sort_stats('time', 'calls')
     stats.print_stats(40)

     print "Normal profiler..."
     profile.run('wait.test()', 'wait.prof')
     print "profile done"
     stats = pstats.Stats('wait.prof')
     stats.strip_dirs()
     stats.sort_stats('time', 'calls')
     stats.print_stats(40)


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Fri Oct 22 06:29:26 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:29:26 +0200
Subject: Installing Python on a fileserver
References: <mailman.5303.1098434586.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1ubtpldx94isn.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Marco Aschwanden (2004-10-22 10:46 +0200)
> I would like to install Python on a fileserver. All the machines (all 
> Win2K) should afterwards use this Python installation. The (Python) apps I 
> am developing will be as well placed on the fileserver.
> 
> My advantages would be:
> - I have to keep only 1 Python installation up-to-date.
> - (Frequent) changes of the apps are easily distributed by copying them to 
> the fileserver.
> 
> How do I install Python (on this fileserver)?

Simply install it on the file server share.

> I am as well using other packages like wxWindows... anything to consider 
> there?

No.

> Are there special precautions on the client machines? Hopefully not. 
> (Paths? Dlls?)

If you don't know this you probably never installed Python on a
Windows machine. Of course all the file associations and registry
entries. Why don't you test it?

> Special considerations on using shortcuts to start the app?

What "app"?

Thorsten


From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Fri Oct 22 04:46:51 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:46:51 +0200
Subject: Installing Python on a fileserver
Message-ID: <opsf9j0dpg35jo5o@news.gmane.org>

Hi

I would like to install Python on a fileserver. All the machines (all 
Win2K) should afterwards use this Python installation. The (Python) apps I 
am developing will be as well placed on the fileserver.

My advantages would be:
- I have to keep only 1 Python installation up-to-date.
- (Frequent) changes of the apps are easily distributed by copying them to 
the fileserver.

How do I install Python (on this fileserver)?
I am as well using other packages like wxWindows... anything to consider 
there?
Are there special precautions on the client machines? Hopefully not. 
(Paths? Dlls?)
Special considerations on using shortcuts to start the app?

The other possibility would be to pack the application with py2exe and put 
the whole package onto the server... I would rather prefer the solution 
with the python installation on the server...

Thanks for any hints in advance,
Regards,
Marco



From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 06:32:02 2004
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:32:02 +0100
Subject: Python utility convert Windows long file name into 8.3 DOS
	format
In-Reply-To: <clqc5i$l1h$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
References: <4C0gd.20216$R05.13225@attbi_s53>
	<mailman.5599.1098947598.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clqc5i$l1h$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c6041028033299a625d@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:55:16 +0200, vincent wehren
<vincent at visualtrans.de> wrote:
> Just note that GetShortPathName expects a valid and accessible path in
> your file system.

Which is just as it should be. Files that don't exist don't *have*
short names. One might be able to put together a function that
*guesses* what short name Windows would be likely to give a new file
with a given long name, but it would be pretty unreliable, I reckon.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon.brunning at gmail.com,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 24 13:26:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:26:44 +0200
Subject: wx position of items in list
References: <clgn8j$pu8$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1gm6du8.1pa8cwrygtmflN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

M. Clift <noone at here.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> This would seem to be easy, but I have had no luck in working out how to do
> this.
> 
> In wx.python a list of text is displayed as a bitmap and given it's
> position.
> 
>         shape.pos = (145, 270)
> 
> What I want to do is to increase the y value for every 20 items in the list,
> so the text is displayed to a new line. So for items in list numbered 0 -19
> y = 270, for items in list numbered 20 - 39 y = 370 etc...

maybe 270 + (i//20)*100 is what you want?


Alex


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Oct 11 13:00:11 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:00:11 -0000
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncmlf0n.v83.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list at python.org>, Clark C. Evans wrote:
> What? is lambda is going away?  Say it ain't so!

They keep threatening it, and it keeps not happening. In the meantime, we
can use this time to our advantage, preparaing our vocal chords for the
eventual screaming fits and wails of agonizing pain. ;)

>| >Not that it's coming any time soon, but Python 3000 is supposed to remove 
>| >lambda functions
> 
> Expect me to whine very loudly on a daily basis when Python 3000 
> becomes near.  In fact, let the preemptive supplication begin.

Since enough time has gone by since I last whined, let me just take this
opportunity to say, in a completely calm, diplomatic, and
non-confrontational way: "Ruby-style code blocks would be nice."

 (o) Don't beg for code blocks again today
 ( ) Don't beg for code blocks again in the next three days
 ( ) Don't beg for code blocks again in the next week

                                                     [ OK ]
-- 
 .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
        "talking about music is like dancing about architecture."


From ian at cottee.org  Wed Oct  6 01:24:42 2004
From: ian at cottee.org (Ian J Cottee)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:24:42 +0900
Subject: How do you write this in python
In-Reply-To: <8f17f4bc.0410041645.630ee821@posting.google.com>
References: <8f17f4bc.0410022000.e331cbe@posting.google.com>
	<41603d90_1@newsfeed.slurp.net>
	<8f17f4bc.0410041645.630ee821@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <g5cc32-976.ln1@suse.zobbo.org>

Ali wrote:
> ok that looks close but can someone explain it to me section by section please?

No idea what your experience/knowledge is so here's a quick noddy run 
through. Heed Steven's advice however and go through a tutorial.

> class Card:

Defines a class called 'Card'. You can think of a class as being a 
template for different types of card you want to produce. Each card you 
make will be an instance of the Card class. We also call those instances 
'objects'

>     def __init__(self, name, email):

Tells python that when we create a class we will pass it two parameters 
- name and email. This is a a 'method' of the class. A method is like a 
function or subroutine (maybe an action if you like) and defines some 
behaviour specific (in this case) to cards. All class methods take at 
least one parameter which is 'self'. self refers to the object itself.

>         self.name = name
>         self.email = email

As well as methods we also have properties. If you know other languages 
then you can think of them as variables which exist only for instances 
of this class. In this case we say that the class object we have just 
created will have two properties - 'name' and 'email'. We assign these 
properties the values of the two arguments we defined in our __init__ 
method.

You can assign properties whenever you want - it does not have to be 
done in the __init__ method.

>     def tohtml(self):
>         output = [ '<hr>\n',
>                    '<b>Name: </b>', self.name, '<br>\n',
>                    '<b>Email: </b>', self.email, '<br>\n' ]

This defines another method called 'tohtml'. In this case we create a 
list of strings. Lists are useful ways of manipulating data in Python - 
you can think of them a bit like arrays if you know other programming 
languages. Note that in our list (which is called output) we have both 
raw text strings (string literals) and also our the values of our 
instance variables (self.name and self.email).

>         return ''.join(output)

our tohtml method returns a value to whatever calls it. In this case it 
returns the empty string '' concatenated with all the strings in our 
output variable.

> ali = Card('Ali', 'alik at alik.com')
> zainab = Card('Zainab', 'zainab at zainab.com')

Now we create two cards. The first card (an instance of the class Card) 
is called ali. ali.name will be 'Ali' and ali.email will be 
'alik at alik.com'. Remember, these are set in our __init__ code. The 
second is called zainab and it has it's own instance variables.

> print ali.tohtml()

This calls the tohtml method for ali (the '()' at the end shows us we 
are calling a method rather than just returning an instance variable). 
In this case tohtml will concatenate the string literals with the 
instance variables set to 'Ali' and 'alik at alik.com'. In this case you'd get

    <hr>
    <b>Name: </b>Ali<br>
    <b>Email: </b>alik at alik.com<br>

(note that within the string literals, \n is replaced by a new line)

> print zainab.tohtml()

do the same for the zainab object. It would give us

    <hr>
    <b>Name: </b>Zainab<br>
    <b>Email: </b>zainab at zainab.com<br>


and that is how we do that

Ian


From exarkun at divmod.com  Wed Oct  6 19:17:05 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:17:05 GMT
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
In-Reply-To: <864d37090410061610d6634cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041006231705.29723.713248243.divmod.quotient.10425@ohm>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:10:52 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:39:50 -0600, Erik Johnson <ej
> <at at bag.python.org>wellkeeper <"dot>com"@bag.python.org> wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> That's it, in a nutshell.
>  
> > class Bar:
> > 
> >     def __init__(self, foo_d=None)
> >         if foo_d:
> >             self.foo_d = foo_d
> >         else:
> >             self.foo_d = {}
> 
> Well, it works. I don't see anything wrong with it. Youonly need to
> take care with objects that are mutable. This includes lists and
> dicts, but _not_ ints, floats or strings. These you can use as
> defaults just fine, without fear.
> 
> ... but you can try this code also:
> 
> self.foo_d = foo_d or {}

  One could argue that there is something slightly wrong with both of these.  Consider:

    d = {}
    b = Bar(d)
    d['x'] = 'y'

  One might reasonably expect b.foo_d['x'] to be 'y'.  In the case of the above, it will not be; a KeyError will be raised instead.  A better way, IMHO, to write the above idea is this:

    class Foo:
        def __init__(self, foo_d=None):
            if foo_d is None:
                foo_d = {}
            self.foo_d = foo_d

  Jp


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct 13 14:02:50 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:02:50 -0700
Subject: Some notes
In-Reply-To: <du7hdoz9but.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <5c882bb5.0410130130.590ad422@posting.google.com>
	<du7hdoz9but.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <20041013103355.0931.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


>     >> (I can't believe I am replying to someone with the email
>     >> address bearophile 'bearophile')
> 
>     bearophile> I am learning, like everybody else.
> 
> He probably just thought that your email address is amusing. Which it
> is, it the internetish neo-juvenile fashion. Laughing at such a name
> is probably not the most mature thing to do, but some of us just can't
> help it...

I wasn't laughing at the name.

Perhaps the original poster is an animal conservationist, concerned
about humans encroaching on the environments of Black, Brown, Grizzly,
etc., bears.  Perhaps it is something else.

I don't know, nor do I really want to know.
 - Josiah



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Oct  6 23:26:22 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:26:22 +1300
Subject: [OT] New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <1gl6u3c.1eo6g6qc3j9vdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4329.1096975106.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6u3c.1eo6g6qc3j9vdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2sjravF1im94sU1@uni-berlin.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Mark English <Mark.English at liffe.com> wrote:
>>Python is generally 2000 to 3000 times faster than Java if you run Java
>>on a toaster and Python on a super-cooled space computer orbiting
>>Saturn.
> 
> Roughly correct, though the exact number depends on the model of
> toaster.  But in the next release of Python, we're going to extend the
> validity of this observation to computers orbiting Neptune

The disadvantage being that you have to get the results back
via the Deep Space Network, which at that distance is limited
to about 3 bits per second. Fine for functions with a boolean
result, though.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Oct 13 10:53:54 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:53:54 +0200
Subject: Secure Python code - volunteers for code review?
In-Reply-To: <1097645158.10090.3.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <1097637663.543580.126100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<20041012205021.091B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<1097645158.10090.3.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <20041013145354.GA3223@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 10:25:58PM -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
> [Josiah Carlson requests a security review of his code storing/receiving
> email data from a PostgreSQL database]
>
> A more straightforward way is to simply use prepare() religiously.
> This also avoids the headache of having to decode your data if you
> use a different program to access it (such as psql or mysql).

There's no prepare() in the DB-API. Letting the database module do the
quoting should be enough to stay clear of SQL injection attacks.

And this his code does, from what I can see. The SQL stuff is hard to
read for me, though. Maybe the database access code should be factored
out more and put in a class of its own.

-- Gerhard


From kosh at aesaeion.com  Tue Oct 26 03:33:26 2004
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:33:26 -0600
Subject: what are the most popular building and packaging tools for
	python ??
In-Reply-To: <417d7513.765059317@news.oz.net>
References: <5a309bd30410250301b26f445@mail.gmail.com>
	<1gm8i53.1ghjcha10td2q4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417d7513.765059317@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <200410260133.26701.kosh@aesaeion.com>

On Monday 25 October 2004 5:44 pm, Bengt Richter wrote:

> It's an interesting problem. Personally, I like open source, but I think
> secret stuff should be possible, and I think it will be one of these
> days...
>

I have to admit I hope it is not ever really possible.


> By analogy, I don't think it's a stretch to imagine a CPU core with a
> "secure kitchen" in the form of an inaccessible instruction cache memory
> where decrypted (by the core hardware) code/recipes may be stored for
> execution, and with private temporary data cooking areas for use before
> results come out the window.

I certainly hope that does not happen and will continue to advise customers 
not to touch things that even try to do stuff like that. I have seen too many 
people burned badly when some proprietary app they had which required some 
special key server just stopped working. The company would go out of 
business, decide that they did not want people to use the old version any 
more etc etc. Either way the ammount of lockin with a system like that is 
staggering. Even if the software did not cost any money the price is far too 
high for what you lose. However the software tends to be very expensive which 
makes it an even worse investment. The worst ones are those you can't really 
get the data back out of.

> IOW, a python extension could nicely encapsulate access to securely
> encrypted code, which it would get into the "secure kitchen" by using
> harware core-core communication channels designed to support all this.
>

I would hope something like this never makes it into python just so that 
people could not use it. I would want the most insane hoops to exist or 
people to even try this and I would want the os to give huge warnings 
whenever any piece of software used that feature. 

> Using this kind of system, a customer would give you his CPU's public key
> and serial number, and you would send him the encrypted code as part of
> your app package. No other CPU would be able to run this code, since no
> other CPU would have the matching private key to decrypt it. Yes, someone
> could send a bogus non-CPU public key that he has the private key for, so
> there would have to be an authentication of CPU public keys in some kind of
> registry, presumably generated by CPU manufacturer, mapping chip serial
> number to its *public* key, available for checking at some authenticable
> site.

So what you want to do is run abitrary code on someone else's machine that 
they have no way to access and that if for some reason  you go out of 
business they are screwed. Yeah a system like that is great except when you 
get a new computer and try to install the software on it and find it doesn't 
work since the key no longer matches and the company that made the software 
no longer exists. This is just a horrible idea that should not go into any 
systems.

>
> Maybe I am missing something, but this seems feasible to me.
> One might feel distrustful of supplying a "kitchen" in one's house
> for someone else to cook secretly in (poison? etc?), but having it
> encapsulated in a core only accessed via argument passing and result
> retrieval through actual hardware channels makes the secret code something
> like a pure function. There can't be any side effects outside of the
> kitchen, except insofar as the open side may be misled by data results.
>

There is no way I would trust a system like that and long term any company 
that does will end up paying a very heavy price. Those that use those methods 
will end up going out of business anyways since a competitor even a twice the 
price will often be able to show themselves to be a far more attractive 
vendor. Being able to tell your customers that if you vanish the software as 
is will work until they switch to something else, that they can get their 
data out, that they can run it on a newer computer etc. All this lock in, drm 
etc stuff is just going to burn a lot of people and it is a bad idea. It is 
trying to create an equivalent to physical controls in a world which is not 
physical and it just won't work.



> Instead, I would hope it would enhance the possibilites for making
> dependable agreements, which should be good for everyone, so long as access
> to the the secure kitchen core hardware functionality is open, and
> optional, and does not have back doors.
>

These agreements belong in the legal system not in the technology. That is why 
you have contracts and you have penalties for breaching a contract.


From info at crouching-gnu-hidden-gerbil.com  Thu Oct 21 09:16:36 2004
From: info at crouching-gnu-hidden-gerbil.com (noj)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:16:36 +0100
Subject: Newbie question re "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist"
Message-ID: <1098364393.24225.0@echo.uk.clara.net>

I'm going through Downey, Elkner, and Myers' "How to Think Like a Computer
Scientist" (Python version), including the exercises. Is there a listing
somewhere of answers to these exercises?

(I've Googled the web and groups for these but not found anything yet.)





From andre.naess at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 11:01:09 2004
From: andre.naess at gmail.com (Andr? N?ss)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 08:01:09 -0700
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
Message-ID: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>

One thing I liked about Lisp was the ability to use the question mark
(and the exclamation mark) in function names. I found this
particularily useful when checking boolean properties of a object like
for example myObj.isContextSet. It just feels so much more natural to
write myObj.contextSet?

I also found it neat that destructive operations were clearly marked
with !.

Is there anything preventing this from being possible in Python?

One of the things I really love about Python is the way it feels when
I type it. It just comes completely natural to write "for foo in bar"
and then push the colon, all those curly braces on the other hand
always feel awkward.


From olli at haluter.fromme.com  Fri Oct 29 12:59:55 2004
From: olli at haluter.fromme.com (Oliver Fromme)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 16:59:55 GMT
Subject: String to Hex
References: <6f402501.0410270242.521c6ab2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2ufb8bF2ab68mU1@uni-berlin.de>

Michael Foord <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote:
 > How do you safely turn an arbitrarily long signed hex string into a
 > long integer ?
 > e.g. -0x55aff8080000

I don't really see what the problem is.

$ python -c 'print int("-0x55aff8080000", 16)'
-94214268911616

Works fine on 2.3.4, no warning.  The "0x" is optional,
so if your strings don't contain it from the beginning,
you don't have to insert it.

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Konrad-Celtis-Str. 72, 81369 Munich, Germany

``All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream.''
(E. A. Poe)


From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Mon Oct  4 11:33:22 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:33:22 +0200
Subject: OT: Grammatical nitpicks (was Re: python vs c#)
In-Reply-To: <cjrlou$n3h$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>	<415F67E0.8040200@holdenweb.com>
	<cjrlou$n3h$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <41616D42.7060909@cenix-bioscience.com>

Aahz wrote:

>I'm not much of a grammatical analyst, so I don't know what you mean by
>"genitive form".  The standard forms that I use are zie, zir, zirs, and
>zirself.
>
>So the genitive (posessive) form is "zirs".
>  
>



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 19:23:52 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:23:52 -0300
Subject: Metaclass Question
In-Reply-To: <9B63271C-17E9-11D9-BD3F-000A95DA8A1C@cogeco.ca>
References: <9B63271C-17E9-11D9-BD3F-000A95DA8A1C@cogeco.ca>
Message-ID: <864d3709041006162364ba57e6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:46:47 -0400, Jay Parlar <jparlar at cogeco.ca> wrote:
> My goal here isn't really the whole current_function thing, it's just
> to learn metaclasses.

Well, it's nice on your part admiting it.. because f you only want to
check the current_function, it would be *much* easier (and more
general) to use the inspect module, get the current frame and check
the name of the current code block:

inspect.currentframe().f_code.co_name

> Is there any way to make new instances of a function, short of a lambda?

The answer is *simple*. In fact, it's embarassingly simple. Do it
inside a loop. Really.

for i in range(10):
    def newfunc(...):
        ...
 
... will create as many copies of newfunc as you want; it will bind
all to the same name in the local namespace, but each and every
instance will be different. The func_name attribute will be 'newfunc'
for all functions created, though; but if you're using 2.4, you can
rename them later, by changing the func_name attribute, that is now
writable.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Thu Oct 28 12:17:15 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 16:17:15 GMT
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
Message-ID: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>


Is it correct to say that strong/weak typing does not make a difference 
if one does not use any pointers (or adress-taking operator)?

More concretely, I am thinking particularly of Python vs C++.
So, are there any examples (without pointers, references, or adress-taking),
which would have a different result in Python and in C++?

I would appreciate all insights or pointers to literature.

TIA,
gabriel.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| We act as though comfort and luxury                                     |
| were the chief requirements of life,                                    |
| when all that we need to make us happy                                  |
| is something to be enthusiastic about.              (Einstein)          |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Wed Oct 20 16:27:26 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 20:27:26 GMT
Subject: Yet more SMTP
References: <cl5bvv$imp$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20041020162726.25562.00002517@mb-m29.aol.com>

Thanks!  that did it.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 18 18:21:46 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:21:46 -0400
Subject: Mike Chermside
In-Reply-To: <jqb8n0l59ku4psvtbt1su5crke7egio0pu@4ax.com>
References: <jqb8n0l59ku4psvtbt1su5crke7egio0pu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <zqXcd.720$si.444@lakeread04>

Jonathan Gennick wrote:

> Another whom I'm trying to locate is:
> 
> mike.chermside at destiny.com
> 
> The above address also no longer works.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jonathan Gennick
> Editor, O'Reilly Media
> 906.387.1698   mailto:jgennick at oreilly.com

Michael's address is mcherm at mcherm.com.

regards
  Steve

-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From janeaustine50 at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 23:19:25 2004
From: janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 20:19:25 -0700
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted Data
	Chunk Efficiently
References: <ba1e306f.0410050212.3b592313@posting.google.com>
	<2sgc66F1enc5nU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ba1e306f.0410071919.7defa4a9@posting.google.com>

William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:<2sgc66F1enc5nU1 at uni-berlin.de>...
> Jane Austine <janeaustine50 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello.
> > 
> > I have student_names and their scores, which are between 0..100.
> > 
> > I want to retrieve in the sorted order in terms of score, Nth
> > student's name to N+10th student's name along with their scores.
> > (suppose a web page showing top 10 students and there are "next page"
> > link and if you follow the link there shows next top 10 students with
> > "prev" and "next" page links.)
> > 
> > The list is dynamically resized -- elements are added or deleted. The
> > list could go fairly long enough that pulling all the data on memory
> > at once is not a good choice.
> > 
> > What algorithm and data/file structure are most efficient? (the
> > environment is "cgi" based web environment)
> > 
> > Simplest approach would be using btree from bsddb. But there are only
> > "first"/"last" and "next"/"prev" moves. If I have to retrieve 20..29th
> > students, I have got to "first" and then "next" 19 times before I
> > finally get to 20th student, which is a waste of time(and memory).
> > Maybe I could keep the cursor position among sessions if I were using
> > a standalone server. However, it is in CGI environment.
> > 
> > What can I do instead? What data structure allows you to access
> > nth..n+10th data from the sorted list in a constant time?
> 
> This is an example of "premature optimization".  How many student do you
> have anyways?  10,000 students with 100 bytes for name and score comes
> to 1MB.  Just keep the list as textfile, and read a block at time.

Thank you for reminding me Knuth's words. However, there are other
information on each records, and the whole list could grow upto
10MB~100MB.

Another problem is, the list update action could take a long time and
big memory. The list could shrink and expand. Do I have to sort them
all in memory and then update the textfile _everytime_ it's changed?


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Oct 12 21:08:00 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:08:00 -0400
Subject: Ok, I'm quite new to Python
In-Reply-To: <ckhrcs$g92$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
References: <ckhrcs$g92$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <416C7FF0.4060608@rogers.com>

Michael wrote:

>But i'm a good c++ programmer.
>
>What i want to do is parse a text file and store the information in relevant
>fields:
>  
>
Well, if you have (or know how to write) an EBNF grammar, SimpleParse 
would likely be ideal for this. See the VRML97 sample grammar in 
SimpleParse (or even the VRML97 loader in OpenGLContext for a more 
real-world example).

Primary value of SimpleParse for this kind of thing is that it's fast 
compared to most other Python parser generators while still being easy 
to use.  If you're loading largish (say 10s of MBs) models the speed can 
be quite useful.  (It was originally written explicitly to produce a 
fast VRML97 parser (btw)).

If you're loading *huge* models (100s of MBs), you may need to go for a 
C/C++ extension to directly convert from an on-disk buffer to objects, 
but try it with the Python versions first.  Even with 100s of MBs, you 
can write SimpleParse grammars fast enough to parse them quite quickly, 
it just requires a little more care with how you structure your productions.

>but I have no idea what the best way to do this is?
>Any thoughts??
>  
>
Mostly it's just a matter of what you feel comfortable with. There's 
quite a range of Python text-processing tools available.  See the text 
"Text Processing in Python" (available in both dead-tree and online 
format) for extensive treatment of various approaches, from writing your 
own recursive descent parsers through using one of the parser-generators.

Good luck,
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From cmkleffner at gmx.de  Tue Oct 19 07:55:36 2004
From: cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 04:55:36 -0700
Subject: popen and two-way communication
References: <cl1gmk$rgq$1@newshost.mot.com>
Message-ID: <3b091a1c.0410190355.5543b3e1@posting.google.com>

You may be interested in the new subprocess module:

1) PEP:
   http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/whatsnew/node8.html

2) source code:
   http://www.lysator.liu.se/~astrand/popen5/

3) Windows builds (pre Python-2.4):
   http://effbot.org/downloads/#subprocess

Regards

Carl

Stephen Boulet <stephendotboulet at motorola_._com> wrote in message news:<cl1gmk$rgq$1 at newshost.mot.com>...
> I'd like to use popen for a little script to call gnu privacy guard and 
> display decrypted text to a window.
> 
> Working from the dos prompt I can type in:
> 
>     "gpg -d <filename>"
> 
> But then gpg then comes back at me with something like:
> 
> """
> You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
> user: "xxxx <xx at somewhere.net>"
> 1024-bit ELG-E key, ID xxxxxx, created 2004-04-27 (main key ID xxxxxx)
> 
> Enter passphrase:
> """
> 
> After entering the passphrase the decrypted text gets dumped to the console.
> 
> How do I do this with popen?
> 
> Stephen
> 
> (Too bad the pexpect module doesn't work under windows.)


From NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it  Tue Oct 26 14:13:57 2004
From: NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:13:57 GMT
Subject: Yet Another Command Line Parser
Message-ID: <5c4tn0latkspkrrlj8r66qj7h35qbpies0@4ax.com>

Regards.
In the standard library there are two modules for command line
parsing: optparse and getopt.
In the Python Cookbook there is another simple method for parsing,
using a docstring.

However sometimes (actually, in all my small scripts) one has a simple
function whose arguments are choosen on the command line.

For this reason I have written a simple module, optlist, that parses
the command line as it was a function's argument list.

It is more simple to post an example:


import optlist


def main(a, b, *args, **kwargs):
    print 'a =', a
    print 'b =', b

    print 'args:', args
    print 'kwargs:', kwargs

optlist.call(main)


And on the shell:
shell: script.py 10, 20, 100, x=1



Since sometimes one needs to keep the options, I have provided an
alternate syntax, here is an example:


import optlist

optlist.setup('a, b, *args, **kwargs')

print 'a =', optlist.a
print 'b =', optlist.b

print 'args:', optlist.args
print 'kwargs:', optlist.kwargs



Finally, the module is so small that I post it here:

-------------------------- optlist.py --------------------------------

import sys

# add spaces to avoids errors like: 1 2, 3 4 -> (12, 34)
_options = ' '.join(sys.argv[1:])

def call(func):
    """
    Call func, passing to it the arguments from the command line
    """
    exec('func(' + _options + ')')
        
def setup(template):
    """
    Template is a string containing the argument list.
    The command line options are evaluated according to the template
    and the values are stored in the module dictionary
    """
    exec('def helper(' + template +
'):\n\tglobals().update(locals())')
    exec('helper(' + _options + ')')

----------------------------------------------------------------------



I hope that this is not 'Yet Another Unuseful Module' and that the
code is correct.

The only problem is that error messages are ugly.



Regards   Manlio Perillo


From dthierbach at gmx.de  Sat Oct 23 06:25:28 2004
From: dthierbach at gmx.de (Dirk Thierbach)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:25:28 +0200
Subject: Events and file polling in a C extension
Message-ID: <20041023102528.566.0.NOFFLE@ID-7776.user.dfncis.de>

I am writing an Python 2.3 extension in C, and I would like to create
events (Tk-style) from an external source. I use a library that
already parses the events into a C structure. This library can
also supply file ids for poll() or select() calls (all this is on
Linux, BTW). 

What's the preferred way to doing this? Can I register my own event
handlers to the Python runtime, including the file ids to poll/to do
select on, as in Tcl/Tk? Or do I have to create a new thread, and
do a blocking select/poll-call inside the thread? If yes, how much
attention do I have to pay to Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS/Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS?
E.g. use them as often as possible, or only at cricitical points?
How do I create a new thread with the C API, anyway? Or should I wrap
that into a Python module that calls some auxiliary functions
in the C module?

As I am comparatively new to Python and the C API, I would be glad for
some boilerplate C-code (if there is any available somewhere) I could
use as a starting point, so I don't have to re-invent the wheel myself
another time :-)

Thanks for any help,

- Dirk




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 02:04:31 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:04:31 +0200
Subject: How can I make an existing object read-only?
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1gl6bb2.hipl76mc80bN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote:
   ...
> >     def __setattr__(self, n, *args): raise AttributeError, n
> >     __delattr__ = __setattr__
   ...
> Incidentally, why are you writing:
> 
>   def __setattr__(self, n, *args): ...
> 
> with a varg list ?  I always assumed it only got a single 'value' parameter?

Just to be able to reuse the same method as __delattr__ in the very next
line; could have coded 'v=None', say, equivalently to '*args'.


Alex


From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Tue Oct 26 23:34:08 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 03:34:08 GMT
Subject: MD5()
References: <HPDfd.114032$yp.72962@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <slrncnu5pg.tiv.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:37:47 -0400, ed18hg <ed18hg at brllsouth.net> wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm using this code to get the MD5 of the numbers 0-9. How can I loop 
> through the combination of all lowercase letters and 0-9. I read in the 
> documentation the string operation ascii_lowercase but I'm a bit confused on 
> how to combine it with integers. Thanks in advance.

It depends what you mean by "combination of all lowercase letters and 0-9".

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/190465

shows one way of generating combinations, but what you want depends on
what you are actually trying to do.

>
> for i in xrange(10):
>  import md5
>  m=md5.new()
>  m.update("%i"%i)
>  print"i=",i,"md5(i)=",m.hexdigest() 

If you want all pairs of lowercase letters and 0-9 you could, for example, use:

import string
import md5

def pairs(s):
    for c1 in s:
        for c2 in s:
            yield c1+c2

for i in pairs(string.ascii_lowercase+string.digits):
    m = md5.new()
    m.update(i)
    print "i=",i,"md5(i)=",m.hexdigest()

-- 
Sam Holden


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Oct  7 11:03:34 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 11:03:34 -0400
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck3ls6$62e$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f at posting.google.com>,
P.M. <pcm at cpugrid.net> wrote:
>
>My question is, how can I best parallelize the running of separate
>autonomous Python scripts within this app?  Can I run multiple
>interpreters in separate threads within a single process?  In past
>newsgroup messages I've seen advice that the only way to get
>scalability, due to the GIL, is to use an IPC mechanism between
>multiple distinct processes running seperate interpreters.  Is this
>still true or are there better ways to accomplish this?

I'm not sure where in the thread to hang this, so I went back to the
root to post this reminder:

One critical reason for the GIL is to support CPython's ability to call
random C libraries with little effort.  Too many C libraries are not
thread-safe, let alone thread-hot.  Forcing libraries that wish to
participate in threading to use Python's GIL-release mechanism is the
only safe approach.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From fabio_listasdiscussao at yahoo.com.br  Mon Oct 25 17:25:03 2004
From: fabio_listasdiscussao at yahoo.com.br (Fabio)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:25:03 -0300 (ART)
Subject: newbie: pygtk (win, slack10)
Message-ID: <20041025212503.94278.qmail@web54001.mail.yahoo.com>

hello all,

I am sorry, but I tried to find some tips about pygtk
running with windows and linux, but I didnt found it,
neither in archives.

Does anybody could send me some links? Tutorials? I am
sorry, but the links I found wasnt cool enough hehe..

sorry my bad english

regards.




	
	
		
_______________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! Acesso Gr?tis - Internet r?pida e gr?tis. Instale o discador agora! http://br.acesso.yahoo.com/


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 21:22:31 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:22:31 -0700
Subject: Close a socket externally
In-Reply-To: <BAm7d.262606$bp1.36553@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
References: <Y9l7d.262597$bp1.228320@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<1096673569.579558.114260@k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
	<BAm7d.262606$bp1.36553@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <10ls0j8q82vbr48@corp.supernews.com>

drs wrote:

>To explain, I am working on an agent based modeling project where agents
>communicate and exchange over TCP sockets.  Agents have to "buy" the right
>to open sockets, so I need an enforcement mechanism to shut them down when
>their time expires.
>

Would it work to limit the number of bytes that they're allowed to 
send/receive, instead of time?  Especially given that TCP's delivery 
guarantees mean that the transfer times for a given chunk of data can't 
really be predicted (because it may include any number of 
retransmissions), it seems that byte-count might be a more "fair" way of 
allocating communication.  Of course, this depends on how much control 
you have over the specifications...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From davidf at sjsoft.com  Thu Oct 14 08:12:35 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:12:35 +0200
Subject: ANN: curses-extra 0.2
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050@cut.me.sideralis.net>
References: <pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050@cut.me.sideralis.net>
Message-ID: <cklqg3$di7$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Riccardo Galli wrote:
> First official release :)
> 
> curses-extra offers various widgets wrotten using curses module.
> 
> In the module are presents the following classes and functions
> 
> Widget
>     Button
>     ButtonBar   #bar of buttons (manage automatically arrow keys)
>     CheckButton
>         RadioButton
>     CheckButtonList #list of checkbutton (as ButtonBar)
>     ComboBox
>     Menu
>     MenuBar
> 
> add_shortcut(pattern,action) #check combinations of keys, eg <ctrl>H
> use_shortcut(c,obj) #check if character is a shortcut, use it in case
>                     #NOTE: widgets auto-check shortcuts
> 
> chgat(win[,y,x],count,attr,color) #change attributes of an area
> 
> You can find it at
> http://www.sideralis.net/index.php?action=4&pjid=20
> 
> Suggestions about API or widgets' graphic are appreciated
> 
> Thanks,
> Riccardo
> 
Riccardo, this looks fantastic!
I wonder if it would be a good idea to look at some of the Python GUI 
wrappers that wrap multiple different GUIs.
PyGui is the main one:
http://nz.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python_gui/
and recently I saw this:
http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/twgui/

If you can have those approaches in mind when you design your API it may 
be possible to add curses-extra, so that an application can use a 
text-based GUI as an alternative!

David


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct  5 12:53:37 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:53:37 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <20041005094856.ECCB.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> > "Messages" in ObjC are really just a metaphor, one that is shared by
> > Smalltalk, but not many other object-oriented languages.
> 
> _Most_ object-oriented languages support object orientation via the
> message passing paradigm. Python included.
> 
> It's just that in Smalltalk the word "message" plays a more central
> role in the (natural) language used to talk about the (programming)
> language. In other (programming) languages, terms such as "method" and
> "member function" tend to be used to describe the same concept.

Think of it like this:

There is object-oriented message passing (using message passing to
handle object orientation), which is what ObjC and Smalltalk use as
paradigms to describe how they work.

Then there is the asynchronous message passing, which involves queues
of messages that are polled, etc.


If your language has a stack datatype, it has a queue datatype.  If it
has these, it can do asynchronous message passing.

On the other hand, no one in the Python world really describes
instance.method() as passing a message to 'instance' with the value of
'method'.

 - Josiah



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 22 07:09:01 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:09:01 -0400
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1098414642.736428.8940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<1098414642.736428.8940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <p5qdnQgpecnQd-XcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Jonathan Ellis wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
>>I'm getting the impression you also haven't tried any significant
>>test-driven development.  
> 
> I think I responded to this already --
> 
>>>Testing is good; preventing entire classes of errors from ever
>>>happening at all is better, particularly when you get large.
> 
> Oh yes; so I did. :)  (See my reply to another subthread for one
> example of when static type checking saved me a LOT of work.)

And you've reemphasized my point.  "Testing" is not test-driven
development.  In fact, test-driven development is about *design*,
not just about testing.  The two are related, but definitely not
the same thing, and eliminating TDD with a wave of a hand intended
to poo-poo mere testing is to miss the point.  Once someone has
tried TDD, they are unlikely to lump it in with simple "unit testing"
as it has other properties that aren't obvious on the surface.

> What is the biggest system you have built with python personally?  I'm
> happy to be proven wrong, but honestly, the most enthusiastic "testing
> solves all my problem" people I have seen haven't worked on anything
> "large" -- and my definition of large agrees with Alex's; over 100
> kloc, more than a handful of developers.

The topic of the thread was large projects with _large teams_,
I thought, so I won't focus on my personal work.  The team I
was leading worked on code that, if I recall, was somewhat over
100,000 lines of Python code including tests.  I don't recall
whether that number was the largest piece, or combining several
separate applications which ran together but in a distributed
system...  I think there were close to 20 man years in the main
bit.

(And remembering that 1 line of Python code corresponds to
some larger number, maybe five or ten, of C code, that should
qualify it as a large project by many definitions.)

> So people don't get me wrong: I love python.  Most of my programming
> friends call me "the python zealot" behind my back.  I just don't think
> it's the right tool for every problem.

Neither do I.  The above project also involved some C and
some assembly, plus some Javascript and possibly something else
I've forgotten by now.  We just made efforts to use Python *as
much as possible* and it paid off.

> Specifically, in my experience, statically-typed languages make it much
> easier to say "okay, I'm fixing a bug in Class.Foo; here's all the
> places where it's used."  This lets me see how Foo is actually used --
> in a perfect world, Foo's documentation is precise and up to date, but
> I haven't worked anywhere that this was always the case -- which lets
> me make my fix with a reasonable chance of not breaking anything.
> Compile-time type checking increases those chances.  Unit tests
> increase that further, but relying on unit tests as your first and only
> line of defense is suboptimal when there are better options.

But what if you already had tests which allowed you to do exactly
the thing you describe?  Is there a need for "better options"
at that point?  Are they really better?  When I do TDD, I can
*trivially* catch all the cases where Class.Foo is used
because they are all exercised by the tests.  Furthermore, I
can catch real bugs, not just typos and simple things involving
using the wrong type.  A superset of the bugs your statically
typed language tools are letting you catch.  But obviously
I'm rehashing the argument, and one which has been discussed
here many times, so I should let it go.

>>Having experience with both approaches, and choosing one over
>>the other, gives one greater credibility than having experience
>>with just one approach, yet clinging to it...
> 
> You are incorrect if you assume I am unfamiliar with python.  

I assumed no such thing, just that you were unfamiliar with
large projects in Python and yet were advising the OP on its
suitability in that realm.  You're bright and experienced, and
your comments have substance, but until you've actually
participated in a large project with Python and seen it fail
gloriously *because it was not statically typed*, I wouldn't
put much weight on your comments in this area if I were the
OP.  That's all I was saying...

-Peter


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct 30 16:11:02 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:11:02 +0200
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <4183f2b0$0$209$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<4183f2b0$0$209$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <2uiaqmF2as1ihU1@uni-berlin.de>

Max M wrote:
> Michael Hoffman wrote:
> 
>> I'll believe the performance benefits when I see them. The Parrot people 
>> promised they would be faster by OSCON 2004 or Guido would get to pie 
>> Dan Sugalski in the face. If you don't already know what happened, you 
>> can see a picture here:
> 
> I just wonder what the difference is between .net, Mono and Parrot?
> 
> To me they all seem to pretty similar goals.

.NET and Mono _are_ pretty much the same - Mono is an open-source
reimplementation of the .NET framework.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From richardshea at despammed.com  Sun Oct 24 19:16:13 2004
From: richardshea at despammed.com (Richard Shea)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 16:16:13 -0700
Subject: Reuters 3000 Xtra and Python
References: <WPSed.953$mm6.230@amstwist00>
Message-ID: <d2a3bd.0410241516.f05582f@posting.google.com>

Carl <phleum_nospam at chello.se> wrote in message news:<WPSed.953$mm6.230 at amstwist00>...
> Does anyone know how to access and download data from Reuters 3000 Xtra from
> Python? 
> 
> Is COM a viable option?
> 
I've only taken a quick look but judging by ...

http://about.reuters.com/productinfo/3000xtra/technical.aspx?

... the answer is "YES", at least to some degree. It also looks as the
product will spit out Excel style output and Excel can easily be
controlled from a Python script. Without knowing more about Reuters
3000 Xtra it's hard to know how good all this is but if you page down
on that URL to "Display-building tools" you'll probably understand
more of it than I do.

BTW if all you want is market numbers (as opposed to having to use the
Reuters product to get them) someone has written a python wrapper to
access some other provider of numbers and which also allows you to do
trades etc. If all you want is that functionality then you might be
better off using that rather than trying to make the Reuters thing
work. At the moment I can't find the reference for that (others might)
package. If you're interested let me know and I'll find it.

regards

richard.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct  7 04:36:43 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 08:36:43 GMT
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Kat wrote:

> How do you identify the last line of a file? I am in a "for" loop and
> need to know which is the last line of the file while it is being read
> in this loop.
> 

You need to read the next line before you can tell which is the last line. 
The easiest way is probably to use a generator:

def lineswithlast(filename):
    prev, line = None, None
    for line in file(filename):
        if prev is not None:
            yield prev, False
        prev = line
    if line:
        yield line, True

	
for line, last in lineswithlast('somefile.txt'):
    print last, line


From jbors at mail.ru  Sat Oct  2 13:21:48 2004
From: jbors at mail.ru (Dmitry Borisov)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:21:48 -0700
Subject: Embedding Python
References: <4audnXFO7feC3MPcRVn-vg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <10ltp863omma41d@corp.supernews.com>

> Greetings,
>
> I am new to python and wish to embed python in an 3D graphics
> application to provide application automation. The high level goal is to
> be able to drive my app from a script for batch job like behavior rather
[snip]

Martin,
I would recommend looking at nebula device for that. Their 3D engine
supports couple of different languages like Tcl/Tk, Lua and Python.
http://www.radonlabs.de/
Have fun,
Dmitry/




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Oct 16 14:26:17 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:26:17 +0200
Subject: pyc files located elsewhere?
References: <m3vfdasuvz.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<mailman.5052.1097941983.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<X7ednccGLPpVxuzcRVn-3A@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <ckrp46$8pr$04$1@news.t-online.com>

> 
> (Is what you describe really possible?  I've never heard of it.)

It seems that its at least not doable using commandline args. But I have to
admit that I love to see that feature - so far, pyc didn't by me anything
except trouble to clear my src-dirs when using a version control system to
prevent them beeing checked in. I'm very well aware of .cvsignore and the
like - but I'd prefer to turn off the compilation.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From andrea.valle at unito.it  Fri Oct 29 11:57:25 2004
From: andrea.valle at unito.it (andrea valle)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:57:25 +0200
Subject: names of parameters as string
In-Reply-To: <m31xfh8uhy.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
	<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>
	<m31xfh8uhy.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <3A2774E4-29C3-11D9-AA85-0003939C968C@unito.it>

Hi to all,
I'd like to access the parameter list of a function (or better of a 
method) in order to generate GUI elements.
That is.
If I have this:

 >>> def foo( foo_param1, foo_param2):
		print foo_param

I'd like to have something like:

 >>> print foo.param_list
 >>> 'foo_param1', 'foo_param2'

My idea is to use the foo_params strings in Tkinter as text for Label 
and as variables for Entries.

What have I to do?

Thanks a lot as usual

Best

-a-


_____________________________________________________________________
For your security, this mail has been scanned and protected by Inflex


From belred1 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  2 23:49:09 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 03:49:09 GMT
Subject: WeakValueDictionary
Message-ID: <VEK7d.58507$He1.41678@attbi_s01>

there must be something i don't understand about WeakKeyDictionary and WeakValueDictionary.  i had expected the last 
line to be empty because i thought i deleted the last strong reference to variable "a". what am i misunderstanding?

 >>> d = weakref.WeakValueDictionary()
 >>> a = A()
 >>> d[1] = a
 >>> d.items()
[(1, <__main__.A instance at 0x0116BC60>)]
 >>> del a
 >>> d.items()
[(1, <__main__.A instance at 0x0116BC60>)]
 >>>

thanks,

bryan


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct  7 05:16:54 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:16:54 +0200
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck31ii$fcm$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Kat wrote:

> How do you identify the last line of a file? I am in a "for" loop and
> need to know which is the last line of the file while it is being read
> in this loop.

You might consider moving the special treatment of the last line out of the
for-loop. In that case the following class would be useful. After iterating
over all but the last line you can look up its value in the 'last'
attribute.

import cStringIO as stringio

class AllButLast:
    def __init__(self, iterable):
        self.iterable = iterable
    def __iter__(self):
        it = iter(self.iterable)
        prev = it.next()
        for item in it:
            yield prev
            prev = item
        self.last = prev

def demo(iterable):
    abl = AllButLast(iterable)
    for item in abl:
        print "ITEM", repr(item)
    try:
        abl.last
    except AttributeError:
        print "NO ITEMS"
    else:
        print "LAST", repr(abl.last)
                    
        
if __name__ == "__main__":
    for s in [
        "alpha\nbeta\ngamma",
        "alpha\nbeta\ngamma\n",
        "alpha",
        "",
    ]:
        print "---"
        demo(stringio.StringIO(s))
   
Peter



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 19:56:38 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 20:56:38 -0300
Subject: python vs c#
In-Reply-To: <59e9fd3a041003162370472ca8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.4166.1096612732.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<9j6ul0db19k6rrmfjbs6kgjar0ldagfoji@4ax.com>
	<59e9fd3a041003162370472ca8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904100316561533721d@mail.gmail.com>

c.l.py has its own ways: it reinvents Godwin's Law every week. But
instead of invoking Nazis, it usually invokes linguistics or
aesthetical discussions. It just takes a troll to start it.


On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:23:58 +1100, Andrew Durdin <adurdin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 14:31:05 -0700, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was going to object to this statement.  I went to my good friend "Google"
> > to look up some references but "a number of" is very common and thus
> > difficult to search for.
> 
> Not at all:
> 
> "+a number +of * have" -- about 1,280,000 results
> "+a number +of * has" -- about 28,800 results
> 
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 00:27:59 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:27:59 +0200
Subject: Python Patterns
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4162ef68$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4409.1097042612.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl88is.1sxl7371uqtnyzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<5475062c.0410061403.24b12ce6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gl9w7x.jsgwwnttasx8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Roger <rlwm.erens at home.nl> wrote:
   ...
> > > > Yep -- I've been writing about DPs with/for Python for years now (that's
> > > > the invariable background to almost all of my conference talks &c, check
> > > > most of them out at www.strakt.com), and one day (once I'm done doing
> > > > 2nd editions of cookbooks and nutshells;-) I hope to write a book about
   ...
> Will the book also include an appendix on anti patterns?

I think it's a good idea to point out how things may go wrong, yes,
though I'm not sure if an appendix is the right location for that.


Alex


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 27 15:52:34 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:52:34 -0400
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <C62dnb22h5UcYeLcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>

Ajay wrote:
> is there an authoritative source on the performance of scripting languages
> such as python vs. something like java, c, c++.
> 
> its for a report, so it would be awesome if i could quote some well-known
> authority on this.

Define "well-known" and "authoritative".  For most definitions,
the answer would be "no" though.

-Peter


From info at valholler.com  Thu Oct  7 17:40:19 2004
From: info at valholler.com (Info VH)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:40:19 -0500
Subject: Mailman backup
Message-ID: <7C336DCA-18A9-11D9-9C12-0003935A5C9A@valholler.com>


I need to backup my list of subscribers on my Mailman mailing list. Any 
suggestions?

Thanks,

Chris Knudson
Houston, TX

###

White Sage Arts
PO Box 667433
Houston, TX 77266 USA
tel/fax:  (+1) 832.607.6905
http://www.chrisknudson.com
EPK:  http://www.sonicbids.com/chrisknudson



From johng2001 at rediffmail.com  Tue Oct 19 18:34:51 2004
From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 15:34:51 -0700
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
	<ad180$416d49e3$51604868$18466@nf1.news-service-com>
	<ba129ce7.0410152212.3d124886@posting.google.com>
	<1glszmt.1r4o5td16zzgx1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ba129ce7.0410181328.507a91a4@posting.google.com>
	<1glwcx7.1ad9rc01yl5w0sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4174d660$0$4028$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<1glwiwv.13q0jwj15hcgoyN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ba129ce7.0410191434.6a4a4f14@posting.google.com>

> > The OMG site has a good list of ORBs, free or commercial:
> > http://www.omg.org/technology/corba/corbadownloads.htm
> 
> Very good site to check for anything CORBA, btw, so tx for posting the
> URL!  I should have dome that myself but didn't think of it, sorry.

I find this one very helpful for quick comparisions.
http://adams.patriot.net/~tvalesky/freecorba.html

Thanks all for the responders who took the time.


From fakeaddress at nowhere.org  Tue Oct  5 00:28:01 2004
From: fakeaddress at nowhere.org (Bryan Olson)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:28:01 GMT
Subject: detecting socket in use on localhost
In-Reply-To: <cjr140$jde$1@news.tudelft.nl>
References: <cjqssg$bh7$1@news.tudelft.nl>
	<1gl4lmg.1das1ob1esi359N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cjr140$jde$1@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <lpp8d.4780$JG2.792@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

Berends wrote:

 > Alex Martelli wrote:
 >> Berends wrote:
 >>> I am looking for some code to detect whether or not there is already a
 >>> listener to a socket (tcp or udp) on the localhost.

 >> Hmmm, you mean to a _port_, I guess...?
 >>
 > correct.
[...]
 >> [1] try connecting to
 >> that port and see if that succeeds (then there must be some listener) or
 >> fails (then, probably no listener);
 >
 >> [2] try binding to that port and see if
 >> that succeeds (then, no listener) or fails because nobody's listening.

And Berends had a method [3], which is to ask the system.

A few notes:

Method [1] is one way to do a "port scan".  Both network
attackers and defenders regularly do port-scans.  Google the
term for further info.

"On the localhost" is open to misinterpretation.  The name
'localhost' typically resolves to the loop-back adapter, with
the IPV4 address 127.0.0.1, and is accessible only from the
localhost.  Each adapter has its own IP address, with its own
set of TCP ports and UDP ports.  Any host with Internet
connectivity should have at least two adapters and addresses:
the loop-back adapter and an external network interface.


Servers most often bind to INADDR_ANY, which is represented by
the reserved (IPV4) address 0.0.0.0, and means the server should
listen on *all* the host's adapters.  A request to bind to
(INADDR_ANY, myport) will fail if myport is already bound on any
of the host's adapters.


 >> In most situations I'd go for the latter  as the former may be less
 >> reliable and might have undesired side effects (at a minimum, footprints
 >> in the listener's logs); however, the latter may not be feasible if the
 >> ports you want to check are privileged ones (<=1024 or whatever) and
 >> your process lacks the necessary privileges.

"Most situations" is hard to define.  I know of two common
situations that call for methods like [1]: Server operators
often want to verify their service is running, and often want to
check that common-but-unneeded services are *not* running. The
former calls for a "heartbeat", and the later for a port-scan.


-- 
--Bryan


From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct 20 16:11:25 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 20:11:25 GMT
Subject: Setting Environment Variables
References: <mailman.5240.1098302851.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncndhjd.nbh.grante@isis.visi.com>

On 2004-10-20, Greg Lindstrom <greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com> wrote:

> I am running python 2.3. on an HP-9000 box running Unix and have a POSIX
> script that sets up my production environment.  I would like to run the
> script from inside a python routine and pick up the environment variables

What do you mean by "pick up the environment variables"?

You do not have access to the environment of the child process, if that's
what you mean.

> but am having trouble getting it done.  Suppose the script is called
> setprod.  How can I call this from inside a python script then pick up the
> env's later in my program?

You don't.

> I've tried os.system ('setprod') and os.system('. setprod'), but neither
> seemed to work.

That's right.

You're going to have to change the script to print the data of interest to
stdout or stderr, and read it via a pipe.  The child process can't change
the environment of the parent, and the parent can't read the environment of
the child.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  If I pull this SWITCH
                                  at               I'll be RITA HAYWORTH!! Or
                               visi.com            a SCIENTOLOGIST!


From johnathan_doeNOSPAMTHANKS at fastmail.com.au  Wed Oct 13 23:50:09 2004
From: johnathan_doeNOSPAMTHANKS at fastmail.com.au (Johnathan Doe)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:50:09 +1000
Subject: Easy web session module with Python?
Message-ID: <416df772$0$3947$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Hi,  I'm looking for an easy way to do web development with Python 
(session handling a-la ASP/JSP/PHP, that kind of thing).  I've looked at 
PythonWeb.org but it has bugs because it's not tested on UNIX platforms 
it seems (I've created some patches and sent them to the author), and a 
quick browse through PyPI in the mature/stable packages doesn't reveal 
much hope, unless I've missed something.  I've googled for session 
handling with Python, and it seems something called "pso" would be ok, 
but that is only mod_python as far as I know, and I may need something 
that works with cgi only hosts.

I could write my own I suppose, but surely someone has done this before? 
  Thanks for any tips!

Johnathan


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Thu Oct 21 01:14:47 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 05:14:47 GMT
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.5038.1097927312.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns958949B3847E6JanC@213.118.38.197>

Michael Sparks schreef:

> The only problems occur for people who use windows who want the
> advantages of a free software OS 

You forget ReactOS which is a free software OS that intends to be WinNT 
& Win32 compatible.  Yes, not ready for prime-time yet, but it already 
runs some Windows software (e.g. notepad & winamp) and is getting better 
every day.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct  8 11:41:11 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:41:11 -0700
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
In-Reply-To: <20041008095200.GA25498@nl.linux.org>
References: <ck5neo$t2n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<20041008095200.GA25498@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <20041008083902.ED7F.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> >>> lines = iter("abc")
> >>> first = lines.next()
> >>> print first
> a
> >>> for line in lines:
> ...  print line
> ...
> b
> c
> 
> Would hurt less feeling I presume.

Unless it was empty, then you'd get the dreaded StopIteration!

IMO, unconditionally breaking out of a for loop is the nicer way of
handling things in this case, no exceptions to catch.

 - Josiah



From gs.lists at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 13:16:18 2004
From: gs.lists at gmail.com (gs)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 10:16:18 -0700
Subject: Establishing a p2p connection in python
References: <a50cee44.0410080026.30cf04f0@posting.google.com>
	<1glc4eg.zvju3nsu0g6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a50cee44.0410080916.76e416c5@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1glc4eg.zvju3nsu0g6N%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> gs <gs.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > We're about 30 friends who want the ability to share files.
> 
> You could look into BitTorrent, a popular p2p program which, I believe,
> is implemented in Python.  Maybe, if not usable as-is, it might be made
> to fit your needs with some minor modifications...?
> 
> 
> Alex

Ok, that sounds very interesting, Alex. BitTorrent seems to be able to
handle my needs at the moment, althoug i'd eventually want to write
something myself :) Thanks for the pointer!

Off to read up on this and try to persuade my isp to let me add
.torrent apptypes :)

sincerely,
gs


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 09:38:14 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:38:14 +0200
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
References: <4e4a11f8.0409232355.6ba0468d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.3834.1096015522.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
	<Jdc7d.280819$4o.95007@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <1gkzgve.4p31dn1tr2bvqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
   ...
> I don't suppose it's come to your attention that Alex is the author of
> "Python in a Nutshell" and co-author of "The Python Cookbook", and 
> therefore rather well qualified to pontificate on the vagaries of Python

Heh, this may in fact have something to do with his attacks -- we're
both nobodies from a nowhere land (Italy well qualifies for such
epithets;-), yet I'm reasonably well-known in this field and he's not...
some people need no more motivation than envy, in order to start spewing
venomonous attacks, after all;-).

Seriously, being "well qualified to pontificate" isn't really the issue
here.  For example, Greg Ewing is surely just as well qualified, yet
disagrees with me (and with the anonymous author of FAQ 1.4.21, and
presumably with Ka-Ping Yee, who uses the cache-as-default idiom in the
pydoc.py module he contributed to the Python Standard Library, ...) on
the specific point (while agreeing with me that evaluating default
values once at def-time is a good thing -- he has not commented on that
on this thread, but it's easy to google for what he said in the past).

Yet, none of us take such technical disagreements as excuses to spew
insults at each other, nor do we have the arrogance to proclaim our
opinions in the matter "uncontestable".  I think these differences
between typical Pythonistas' behavior, and AG's, are important -- and
maybe, at one remove, they may help explain why you, I, Greg, Ka-Ping,
etc, can be "well qualified"... readiness to listen, and to argue with
the common courtesy civil people maintain, can help one _learn_...


Alex


From "sdefresne " at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 18:41:39 2004
From: "sdefresne " at gmail.com (Sylvain Defresne)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:41:39 +0200
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
In-Reply-To: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <1098744099.17059.2.camel@spearmint.heaven>

> So I tried being specific:
> os.popen3("C:\\Program Files\\ds9\\ds9")
> This also fails and the program that is not found is "C:\Program", 
> suggesting that the space in "Program Files" is causing the problem. The 
> following failed in exactly the same way:
> os.popen3("C:\\Program\ Files\\ds9\\ds9")
> 
> Any suggestions?

I don't have a windows to test, but does the following works (that is
protecting the space from the shell by enclosing the path in double
quote) ?

    os.popen3('"C:\\Program Files\\ds9\\ds9.exe"')

-- 
keiichi



From sandysj at juno.com  Sat Oct 23 12:25:46 2004
From: sandysj at juno.com (Jeff Sandys)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:25:46 GMT
Subject: How to use date object
References: <91c5be0a.0410221840.1a5d4cc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417A860A.19E4167B@juno.com>

Nice explaination and diagram about time at:
http://www.python.org/moin/WorkingWithTime

marie wrote:
> 
> I am a newbie in python.  And I would like to know how to create and
> use the methods in date.  Can someone please show me some code about
> it.  Thanks.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 29 21:28:49 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:28:49 -0700
Subject: Linksys Router & Python
In-Reply-To: <1099087954.7272.46.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <20041029143557.0BEE.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<1099087954.7272.46.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <20041029182711.0BF8.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> True, but who ever answers the OP's question on c.l.py?  My impression
> has always been that OP's are just there for starting long OT threads
> about more interesting things <wink>

A very interesting point.  Maybe all Python related questions should be
sent off to the python-tutor list...though that would be kind of mean.

 - Josiah



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 29 09:42:50 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:42:50 +0200
Subject: another try: "timout actions"
References: <3e96ebd7.0410290530.39bbc7cb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2uf0afF29n6shU1@uni-berlin.de>

 
> So, what other ways are there to code actions of the type described
> above? Which way would be the cleanest and most straightforward? (I
> don't want to use a program call, because this would decrease
> readability, portability and other good properties a lot.)

The only thing I can think of is to delegate the work to a therad, and wait
the specified period of time. If by then the result is computed, use it.
Otherwise continue - and ignore the thread. I admit that that is a ugly
solution - especially when the computation is time intensive. 

Maybe some gurus can elaborate on why the regexp-search isn't interrupted by
the signal - the only thing I can think of is that the signal is deferred
until the interpreter re-enters its bytecode-loop - but why the search is
so atomic I don't know.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Oct 19 08:45:01 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 15:45:01 +0300
Subject: Help needed: cryptic perl regular expression in python syntax
References: <bD7dd.1707$i81.1401@read3.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <du7zn2i512q.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "pekka" == pekka niiranen <pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com> writes:

    pekka> Which is fine, but is there a way to join 3 raw strings
    pekka> together into another raw strings? like:

    pekka> r1 = r'''(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\?\??'''
    pekka> r2 = r'''\\?\??)\3(.*?)\3(.*)'''
    pekka> p1 = r1 + key + r2 # p1 should remain raw string too

The term "raw string" only has significance with string literals -
every string object is a "raw string". Backslashes are only
interpreted when converting string literals to in-memory string
objects.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk  Wed Oct 20 06:46:16 2004
From: pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk (Paul Clinch)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 03:46:16 -0700
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
	exception
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>

Stefan Behnel <behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in message news:<cl34oq$7fk$1 at lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>...
> Hi!
> 
> I'm trying to do this in Py2.4b1:
> 
> -------------------------------
> import logging
> values = {'test':'bla'}
> logging.log(logging.FATAL, 'Test is %(test)s', values)
> -------------------------------
> 
> This leads to en exception:
> 
> -----------------------------
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.4/logging/__init__.py", line 692, in emit
>      msg = self.format(record)
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.4/logging/__init__.py", line 578, in format
>      return fmt.format(record)
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.4/logging/__init__.py", line 368, in format
>      record.message = record.getMessage()
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.4/logging/__init__.py", line 239, in getMessage
>      msg = msg % self.args
> TypeError: format requires a mapping
> -----------------------------
> 
Not sure about 2.4 but but in 2.3:-
logging.fatal( 'Test is %(test)s', values)

with the same error, however :-
logging.fatal( 'Test is %(test)s' % values)

is fine. An why shouldn't you use it in this fashion?

> Now, values /is/ a mapping. I looked into logging/__init__.py, but I can 
> only see that the '*args' parameter (as which 'values' is fed in) should 
> have been unpacked like this in logging.log():
> 
> apply(root.log, (level, msg)+args, kwargs)
> 
> Which should lead to the second argument being '(level, msg, args)' in my 
> understanding and which should allow using dicts when doing this later on 
> in LogRecord:
> 
> msg = msg % self.args
> 

*args is not a mapping, its a tuple. Positional arguments in the
format string will be found.

> Now, I'm somewhat confused that this doesn't work and I'm also worried 
> that this is only done in the module methods and not inside the class that 
> actually handles the logging (the root object in this case). This should 
> encourage a diverting behaviour of the module methods and the Logger 
> object methods with the same name. This looks like a bug to me. Adding the 
> tuple should /only/ be done inside the class, not in the module functions.
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to handle dictionaries directly inside LogRecord? 
> Something like this would do the trick:
> 
> -----------------------
> if len(self.args) == 1:
>    msg = msg % self.args[0] # may be a single value or a dictionary
> else:
>    msg = msg % self.args    # looks like a value tuple
> -----------------------
> 
> Could anyone please comment on this?
> 
> Stefan

I haven't read the source so I punt on commenting.

Regards, Paul Clinch


From nelson at crynwr.com  Mon Oct  4 22:44:50 2004
From: nelson at crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 19:44:50 -0700
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
References: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>	<20041004150717.29723.831210876.divmod.quotient.9628@ohm>
	<mailman.4255.1096904916.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1db750f5.0410041844.35ee0db@posting.google.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.4255.1096904916.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> >   The idea doesn't seem all bad, but it doesn't seem like a great
> > enough improvement to justify very nearly breaking every Python
> > program ever written in dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of
> > different places.

Clearly you would have to run every program through a reMandiser.

> OK, shoot this proposal right now.

The necessity for a flag day isn't really a problem, because the
translation would be automated.  The real problem is, in my mind, that
Python programs are NOT strings of characters, but are instead a
sequence of lines.  If you change the line terminator, you haven't
changed the meaning of a program.
-russ


From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Oct 26 08:27:02 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:27:02 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <1gm8d6x.hvrljyulw27dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Qd6dnUTV2ZBkBefcRVn-pg@giganews.com>
	<1gm4rq5.1c25kfc12o6jivN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417cb790$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<slrncnq86k.os.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
	<1gm8d6x.hvrljyulw27dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <417e41b3$0$221$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Alex Martelli wrote:

>>>     <div metal:define-macro="box">
>>>         <h5><metal:block define-slot="title">The title</metal:block></h5>
>>>         <metal:block define-slot="content"/>This is example 
>>>content</metal:block>
>>>     </div>
> 
> 
> Hmmm, isn't this HTML malformed?  the second metal:block seems to be
> self-terminated and then terminated again by a </metal:block>.  I'm
> going to assume a typo (apologies if it's a ZPT feature instead).

It was a typo. Untested code from memory.


> OK, but the problem is, who supplies My_Fragment, and how is said
> fragment going to be parameterized.

Exactly. Complex markup inside complex templates is the problem.


> This, I believe, is part of nevow not being fully mature yet; at release
> 0.3, of course, full maturity should not yet be expected, either.  ZPT
> is older and wiser.  Nevertheless, the fundamental architecture of nevow
> appears to be sound and very promising (for the templating part, at
> least; I'll reserve my opinion about the other parts!),


I don't have anything bad to say about nevow, as I don't know it ;-) But 
I have tried many page layout systems where complex layout in complex 
layout is the problem.

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From davecook at nowhere.net  Fri Oct 22 04:15:33 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:15:33 GMT
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
References: <mailman.5254.1098346524.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ZFQdd.8495$6q2.7811@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <slrncnhgd5.c4i.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <ZFQdd.8495$6q2.7811 at newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, John Fabiani
wrote:

> Great idea and about time.  Python needs some type of default SQL engine.  

<AOL>
Me, too!
</AOL>

I use sqlite heavily (via SQLObject and the current pysqlite).

Dave Cook


From zathras at thwackety.com  Sun Oct 31 07:17:17 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:17:17 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <87brejqhr0.fsf@chat.blakie.riol>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410311215070.22448-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Wilk wrote:

> Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> writes:
>
> > Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> >> Max M wrote:
> >>>
> >>>I just wonder what the difference is between .net, Mono and Parrot?
> >>>
> >>>To me they all seem to pretty similar goals.
> >> .NET and Mono _are_ pretty much the same - Mono is an open-source
> >> reimplementation of the .NET framework.
> >
> > Yes, I know that. But know that is both .net and mono, why parrot?
>
> It was java, why .net and mono...
> And finaly, there is python, why java ;-) ?

If we're being silly, given Simula 67 was OO, byte code interpreted,
compiled, did everything by reference etc, you could say "why python,
java, etc" ;-)

I think the answer really just boils down to "because" ;-)
(As I say above, if we're being silly :)


Michael.



From danperl at rogers.com  Mon Oct 11 23:49:30 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:49:30 -0400
Subject: How to: get list of modules in a package
Message-ID: <4OudnSEQhLvFyfbcRVn-pg@rogers.com>

Is there a direct way to get a list of all the modules in a package, other 
than using an os.listdir() for the directory of the package?

To be more specific, I would like to inspect every module in a package and 
check if it contains the definition of a certain class.  At the same time, I 
would like to be able to add modules to this package in a dynamic way, so 
__init__.py would not be of much help because I do not want to change it for 
every new module.

Thanks,

Dan 




From tim.peters at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 16:26:38 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:26:38 -0400
Subject: Modules aren't first-class values (was: New to Python: Features)
In-Reply-To: <nnab32-ud.ln1@lairds.us>
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nnab32-ud.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <1f7befae0410051326197b546e@mail.gmail.com>

[Richard Blackwood]
>> But modules for example, the docs don't tell me at all that I can use
>> modules as variables and that I can pass them into and out of
>> functions/methods.

[Cameron Laird]
> I've seen you assert this a couple of times.  I haven't been
> able to spot the revelation in this thread which inspired you
> to it.

Someone said so, in reply.

> I suspect there's a confusion somewhere.  Modules
> are *not* first-class values,

Of course they are:  a module is a Python object, and is as
"first-class" as an integer, function, file, ..., or any other kind of
Python object.

> although their names are.

I don't know what that means.

> It sounds as though the standard documentation lacks something
> in regard to modules, but I don't know what it is.

All Python objects can be passed to functions, returned from
functions, stored as values in lists and dicts, etc.  The Python docs
don't explicitly say that all over again for each object type, though
-- it's universally true.

>>> import math
>>> type(math)  # name 'math' is bound to a module object
<type 'module'>
>>> import doctest  # ditto name 'doctest'
>>> type(doctest)
<type 'module'>
>>> import new   # you can even create module objects out of thin air
>>> print new.module.__doc__
module(name[, doc])

Create a module object.
The name must be a string; the optional doc argument can have any type.
>>> def getsin(mod):   # a function taking a module object as argument
...     return mod.sin
>>> doctest = math  # silly but legitimate
>>> getsin(doctest)(3.14)
0.0015926529164868282
>>> m = new.module('mymod')
>>> m.__name__
'mymod'
>>> m.sin = math.sin
>>> getsin(m)(3.14)
0.0015926529164868282

and so on.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 31 07:28:39 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:28:39 +0200
Subject: List problem
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.5668.1099072329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<v2m9o0d7d1v3h4doumfkmb4djk41u0gb9c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1gmiyon.jvyq1w1ob9r59N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

User <1 at 2.3> wrote:
   ...
> >In general, removing elements from a list while you're iterating though
> >the list is a bad idea.  Perhaps a better solution is a list
> >comprehension:
> 
> Unless you're using a while loop and iterating in reverse, for
> example:
> 
> a = [0,1,2,3,4]
> pos_max = len(a) - 1  # Maximum iterable element
> pos = pos_max         # Current element
> while pos >= 0:
>       if a[pos] == 2:
>               a.remove(2)
>               pos_max = pos_max - 1
>       pos = pos - 1

Still a bad idea.

    a[:] = [x for x in a if x != 2]

is more concise, idiomatic, and speedy.  No reason to do low-level
twiddling with indices and fiddly loops, in cases where a list
comprehension can do the job so simply.


Alex


From mahs at telcopartners.com  Mon Oct 18 13:07:06 2004
From: mahs at telcopartners.com (Michael Spencer)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:07:06 -0700
Subject: interface boilerplate
In-Reply-To: <m2lle56sly.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <m2lle56sly.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <cl0t6k$8in$1@sea.gmane.org>

John Hunter wrote:
> In matplotlib, a plotting library with an OO API and a matlab-like
> procedural interface, I have a lot of functions defined in the matlab
> interface module that wrap similarly named class methods defined in
> the Axes class of the axes module.  Eg, the Axes class defines a plot
> method and the matlab interface defines a plot function that gets the
> current Axes instance, calls the plot method on that instance, and
> does some error handling.  Here is the matlab interface wrapper (gca()
> returns the current Axes instance)
> 
> def plot(*args, **kwargs):
>     try:
>         ret =  gca().plot(*args, **kwargs)
>     except ValueError, msg:
>         msg = raise_msg_to_str(msg)
>         error_msg(msg)
>     else:
>         draw_if_interactive()
>         return ret
> plot.__doc__ = Axes.plot.__doc__
> 
> This is mostly boilerplate code that a lot of matlab interface
> functions use, and I'd like to automatically generate it.
> 
> This appears to (mostly) work
> 
> def _wrap_axfunc(name):
>     def wrapper(*args, **kwargs):
>         try:
>             func = getattr(gca(), name)
>             ret =  func(*args, **kwargs)
>         except ValueError, msg:
>             msg = raise_msg_to_str(msg)
>             error_msg(msg)
>         else:
>             draw_if_interactive()
>             return ret
>     wrapper.__doc__ = getattr(Axes, name).__doc__
>     #wrapper.__name__ = name
>     return wrapper
> 
> plot = _wrap_axfunc('plot')
> 
> The only problem I've seen so far is that the name of the function in
> pydoc string is 'wrapper', and I want it to appear as "plot".  I tried
> setting the __name__ attribute, but it is read only.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to best define these matlab interface functions
> by automatically wrapping the Axes instance functions?  I'd like to
> support python2.2 so python2.2 compliant solutions especially welcome.
> 
> JDH

John

The following descriptor-based delegation does not directly address your 
question, but perhaps the idea is applicable.  In any case, I'm curious 
to get reactions to the approach. It may be well-known, but I haven't 
seen a discussion of it in this group.

#Used on 2.3.3, but I think valid on 2.2+

class Delegate(object):
     """A descriptor that converts calls on obj, to calls on obj._data"""
     def __init__(self, attr):
         self.attr = attr
     def __get__(self,obj,objtype = None):
         return getattr(obj._data,self.attr) #Key step is here

#Example: wrap a subset of dict to get a read-only dict

class fdict(object):
     """Frozen Dictionary.  Read only after init"""
     def __init__(self,*args,**kw):
         self._data = dict(*args,**kw)
     def __repr__(self):
         return "f"+repr(self._data)

"""Example - dict methods for read-only"""
fdictmethods = ['__cmp__', '__contains__', '__eq__', '__ge__', 
'__getitem__','__gt__', '__iter__', '__le__', '__len__', '__lt__', 
'__ne__','__reduce__','__reduce_ex__', '__str__', 'copy' , 'get',
'has_key', 'items', 'iteritems', 'iterkeys', 'itervalues','keys','values']

"""Add each method as an auto-delegating descriptor"""
for attr in fdictmethods:
     setattr(fdict,attr,Delegate(attr))


I like this because it's easy to automate, generates the the wrapper at 
compile-time, and preserves the argspec of the wrapped functions

Michael



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 23 14:55:15 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:55:15 -0700
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
References: <qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041023100931.0AF2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile) wrote:
> Cliff Wells:
> 
> >Actually, since the assignment operator is used far more often than
> the
> >equality operator, making it require three keystroke rather than just
> >one is a bad idea.
> 
> Right, still, from a mathematical/formal point of view, Pascal syntax
> is better here :-]

Based on Python's use of '=' rather than ':=', I believe Guido has
already made his decision, and there has been no discussion on changing
the behavior for Python 3.0, so argument over it is a moot point.


> >Occasionally useful.  Not enough to put it high on my list of things
> I'd
> >like to see in Python, but I can see its utility for making
> *slightly*
> >more logical code (versus the "while True: if x: break" idiom).
> 
> I agree, it's not essential, but it can be useful :-)

As it stands, there has been more than one attempt to get case
statements into the Python language.  All have been mostly fruitless
thusfar.  There is a PEP: http://python.org/peps/pep-0275.html , but it
is certainly not going to make it into Python 2.4, and there has been
little discussion about its inclusion in any later versions on
python-dev.

In my opinion, the syntax-less case statement described in the PEP is
pure.  That is, no new syntax is needed, but if your if/elif/else
statements are of a certain format, you gain the speed of dictionary
dispatch.  I believe that any case-statement-like behavior in Python
will likely be of this sort.


> >Why not just use "/"?
> 
> Okay, I'll use os.path.normcase to convert them.

Not necessary.  You can mix '/' and '\\' freely on Windows when opening
files.


> >but there are plenty of things to confuse newbies,
> 
> Reducing non-obvious, magic or not-standard behaviours is quite
> necessary inside a language, it helps non-newbies too, making the
> language more conceptually transparent. Sometimes such non-standard
> behaviours can be useful to improve language speed or other things,
> but they have to reduced to the minimum possible. Python often prefers
> transparency, even when there are many (worse and more opaque, but
> maybe faster) ways to do things. This is positive for a hi-level
> language. So making a hi-level language like Python more transparent
> can be a way to improve it :-)

What you just said was that Python is transparent, but making it more
transparent is better.  What would be more transparent?  Understand that
Python is not likely to do anything that would make it more difficult to
learn or use, just for the sake of speed.


> Mathematica is more transparent than Python (its hashes can process
> everything, it has just a mutable list type and not tuples, assignment
> copies the object, and it's more functional so there are much less
> problems with globals and side effects, etc. but it can still be used
> with imperaive programming) and often it's also faster, but it's far
> from free (and its can be worse to do "real" programming, etc) :-]

It would seem that copy-on-write for lists was a work-around for being
able to hash sequences, a result of only having mutable lists (no
immutable lists/tuples).

I don't remember copy-on-write with Mathematica, though it has been a
few years, I could have sworn that either append or prepend was fast
(which necessitates non-copy-on-write semantics).


"problems with globals and side effects"
The only problem is education. Once one becomes educated about the
side-effects of append/extend/etc., one rarely has problems of this kind,
as one either uses them to their advantage, or programs around what they
conceive to be a limitation. Feel free to program around them; I'm going
to stick with using mutables wherever I see fit.  Please stop advocating
the removal of useful features.

"often it's also faster"
Honestly, I (and likely many others) don't care that Mathematica can be
faster.  C can be faster, Java can be faster, Perl can be faster.  We
use Python for varying reasons and for varying purposes.

In my case, the only thing I find Mathematica useful for is helping with
certain difficult bits of math that I have forgotten over the years. 
For general programming, there are other better languages (in my opinion,
which I imagine is shared), nearly all of which are free.


> Note: Mathematica can be used with a quite powerful "pattern matching
> programming", I don't know if such thing (or a subset of it) can be
> useful to add to Python.

If you mean things like (I can't remember the exact syntax, perhaps this
is it)...

  fib[a_] := If[a<3, Return[1], b=fib[a-1]+fib[a-2];fib[a]=b;Return[b]]

That does what is called memoization in computer science.  Python can do
that, but you need to do so explicitly:

def fib(a, cache={}):
    if a < 3:
        return 1
    if a not in cache:
        cache[a] = fib(a-1)+fib(a-2)
    return cache[a]


Ahh, dictionaries save the day.  With a 'memoization decorator', it gets
easier in the general case

def memoize_single_arg(f)
    cache = {}
    def memoizer(arg):
        if arg in cache:
            return cache[arg]
        return f(arg)
    return memoizer

@memoize_single_arg
def fib_r(a):
    if a < 3:
        return 1
    return fib_r(a-1)+fib(a-2)


If you are talking about something else, perhaps you should describe it.

> >there is a logical explanation that suffices in
> >place of breaking tons of Python code.
> 
> There are logical explanations for everything (because everything must
> be executed by the processor), but for humans some things are more
> logical than others :-)
> Python 3.0 already breaks lots of things, even division operators, so
> that's the best occasion to improve/change/fix things.

Funny, I found no mention of division operator breaking on the Python
3.0 wiki: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonThreeDotOh

Python 3.0 doesn't even exist yet, and likely won't for at least 6 years.
Virtually none of the suggestions you have offered thus far are even
remotely what Guido and others on python-dev have been talking about
changing for Python 3.0



> Jeff Shannon:
> 
> >using a dict of functions is (IMO) a better and cleaner
> >way of implementing the same idea.
> 
> I don't know... The Case syntax can be something like:
> 
> Case <name>:
>     1: DoSomething1
>     range(2,23): DoSomething2
>     else: DoSomething3

That is the worst syntax for case statements I have ever seen.


> >Except that having mutable types be shared this way can be a useful
> feature.<
> 
> It looks more dangerous than useful. And assignments of non-mutable
> types can still be accepted.

Understand that 'obj.attr = val' implies that obj is mutable. Do you
also want to remove object oriented programming in Python? Likely not,
but understand the implications for what you say.

Mutables aren't going away in Python.  Stop complaining about them.


> >Having a += x mean in-place modification 
> >while a = a + x creates a new object allows both options to be
> >easily accessible without function-call syntax.
> 
> Okay, the manual I've read wasn't clear enough about this :-)

It is in the language reference:
http://docs.python.org/ref/augassign.html

"An augmented assignment expression like x += 1 can be rewritten as x =
x + 1 to achieve a similar, but not exactly equal effect. In the
augmented version, x is only evaluated once. Also, when possible, the
actual operation is performed in-place, meaning that rather than
creating a new object and assigning that to the target, the old object
is modified instead."


 - Josiah



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 24 20:46:54 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:46:54 -0400
Subject: Mindboggling Scope Issue
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5397.1098659777.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <200410241346.12230.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>	<clha6h$s7d$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.5397.1098659777.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <RqCdnVhR-M5g0eHcRVn-hg@powergate.ca>

James Stroud wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> Please bare with me as I have seldom asked for help with my code, so I may do 
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Now there's a Freudian strip if I ever saw one.  ;-)

-Peter


From pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk  Wed Oct 20 07:17:25 2004
From: pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk (Paul Clinch)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 04:17:25 -0700
Subject: Returning from socket.accept and threading issues.
References: <mailman.5189.1098211519.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8cf2994e.0410200317.14bb960a@posting.google.com>

"Christopher J. Bottaro" <cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.5189.1098211519.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Hello,
> I'm trying to write a fairly simple network program.  The main thread spawns
> a thread which creates a listener socket and then calls socket.accept on
> it.  socket.accept blocks indefinantly.  My problem is that when the main
> thread determines that it is time to quit, how do I get the spawned thread
> to exit?  Preferably I'd like the spawned thread to return from
> socket.accept when the main thread tells it to and then check a shared
> varible to determine if it should die or call socket.accept again.
> 
> Any advice on this stuff would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> My temporary solution is to poll (via select.select) the listening socket
> for input before socket.accept is called.  I don't like this method because
> it eats up CPU time.

If you call select with a short timeout eg:

select.select( [], [], [], 2.0 )

it uses almost no CPU.

> Thanks for the help.

Regards, Paul Clinch


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct 19 17:18:46 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:18:46 GMT
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1glxbjm.3z1g3hhxomoxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5153.1098150302.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1098194866.552318.234710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5183.1098208117.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glxbjm.3z1g3hhxomoxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Wwfdd.1635$%h1.697@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> For a reasonably experienced programmer, with decent tools, and without
> hair-raising problems of deployment, optimization, continuous fast
> changes to specs, etc, etc, 10k SLOC should be within the threshold of
> "can be sensibly developed and maintained by one person"; 100k SLOC
> won't be; the threshold is somewhere in-between. 

I concur.  I've seen several C++ projects developed by one
person which are bit higher than O(100,000) LOC (not SLOC).
That's about the point where it beomes unwieldy for one person
to maintain.

The only exception I've encountered is for some very long time
research projects where the software is naturally modularizable
and the developer is the sole user, so there's no external
pressure for modifying the code.

I have seen one person projects with much larger code bases
than that but only because it was using 3rd party libraries,
in effect making it a multi-person team.


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 11 04:38:46 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:38:46 GMT
Subject: End of file
References: <mailman.4682.1097470687.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416a44c7.4282908747@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:57:27 -0700, "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote:
[...]
>Bengt Richter:
[...]
>> OTOH, making a thing to hang attributes on is a one liner=20
>> (though if you want more than one instance, class Record: pass;
>> rec=3DRecord() is probably better.
>
>Or even:
>
>class Record(object): pass
>rec =3D Record()
>
>Is there some reason people consistently don't use new-style classes? :(
>
typing fatigue? I normally do, but slipped up there. Probably general fatigue,
given the botch density in that post ;-/
Maybe I will start putting __metaclass__=type at the top of sources...

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Mon Oct 11 07:58:16 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (pekka niiranen)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:58:16 GMT
Subject: Help needed: try/except -idiom vs. C-style coding
Message-ID: <szuad.787$Vk6.540@read3.inet.fi>

Hi there,

I have defined function that calls another functions like this
(modified for this mail):

def main_function():
     if not function1():
         m = "main_function: function1 failed"		
         print_error(m)
         return False
     if not function2():
         m = "main_function: function2 failed"		
         print_error(m)
         return False
     if not function3():
         m = "main_function: function3 failed"		
         print_error(m)
         return False
     return True

In book "Learning Python 1st edition" is was said
that this C-style programming is bad practice
and should be replaced with structure:

def main_function():
     try:
	function1():
	function2():
	function3():
     except:
	what_ever()
	return False (?)
     else:
	return True (?)

How can I use try/except -style if I want to know WHICH
of functions 1-3 failed in try: -section and print
that information? What should functions return in order to
a) raise an exception and
b) tell main_function "it was me who failed for this reason"
    This message should be user specific.

Note that main_function might also be subroutine and must
information of its failure to its upper level.

I am looking something like:

def main_function():
     try:
	function1():
	function2():
	function3():
     except: !!!! FIX !!!!!
	print "Function %s failed in main_function" % functions_name			print 
"Reason: %s" % functions_error_message

Does try/except -idiom expect that message
'"print "Reason: %s" % functions_error_message'
is always printed at the function itself, not by
its caller's except : -section?

-pekka-


From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Mon Oct  4 11:38:44 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:38:44 +0200
Subject: OT: Grammatical nitpicks (was Re: python vs c#)
In-Reply-To: <41616D42.7060909@cenix-bioscience.com>
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>	<415F67E0.8040200@holdenweb.com>	<cjrlou$n3h$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<41616D42.7060909@cenix-bioscience.com>
Message-ID: <41616E84.5090400@cenix-bioscience.com>

Aaron Bingham wrote:

> Aahz wrote:
>
>> I'm not much of a grammatical analyst, so I don't know what you mean by
>> "genitive form".  The standard forms that I use are zie, zir, zirs, and
>> zirself.
>>
>> So the genitive (posessive) form is "zirs".
>>  
>
Nevermind, I'm talking nonsense.  The genitive form is clearly "zir".  
As in "Zir sense of grammer is not very good", right?



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sun Oct 17 22:11:10 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 02:11:10 GMT
Subject: Yahoo SMTP
References: <mailman.5077.1098005645.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2tgn1sF1vnm4fU1@uni-berlin.de>

Travis <bossierbossman at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Can someone give me an example of connecting to yahoo's smtp server 
> and sending mail?
> I'm doing this:
> msg = MIMEText(self.text_ctrl_1.GetValue())
>         msg['Subject'] = sub
>         msg['From'] = 'bossierbossman at yahoo.com'
>         msg['To'] = to
>         s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.mail.yahoo.com')
>         s.set_debuglevel(1)
>         s.connect()
>         s.login('bossierbossman', 'mypassword')
>         s.sendmail('bossierbossman at yahoo.com', [to], msg)
>         s.quit()
> which isn't working out for me.  Any thoughts?

Where is your code for doing AUTH?  Using Telnet, I get

    250-smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
    250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
    250-PIPELINING
    250 8BITMIME

which means you have to do issue 'auth login' or 'auth plain'.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Oct 19 21:08:20 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:08:20 -0400
Subject: strongly typed
References: <slrncnbau9.bba.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <cl4dpv$tfs$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Gabriel Zachmann" <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> wrote in message 
news:slrncnbau9.bba.zach at fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de...
> On
>    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_language
>
> I read that Python is a strongly typed language,
> while C++ is regarded a weakly typed language in that article.
>
> Could somebody please explain to me why Python is a more strongly typed
> language than C++?
>
> All pointers and insights will be highly appreciated,

There have been past discussions in this newsgroup that you may be able to 
find with Google.

Terry J. Reedy





From yhdanid at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  3 19:18:25 2004
From: yhdanid at yahoo.com (E. Daniel)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:18:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: test_tcl and Python 2.4a3
Message-ID: <20041003231825.68177.qmail@web90103.mail.scd.yahoo.com>

After I ran the regrtest suite on Python 2.4a3 several times to make sure, I noticed that when test_tcl's turn comes up and it is run that instead of 2 threads appearing in Wintop.exe (a process viewer for Windows 98) for Python that five threads then appear and these threads (extra or otherwise) continue even after test_tcl is finished and test_tempfile and those after it are picked up and run. This behavior does not seem to happen in Python 2.3.4, where test_tcl is not found in the regrtest suite BTW.
 
Trying to narrow the problem down, I ran test_tcl on its own, and sure enough Wintop showed three more threads for Python 2.4a3, which itself seems to hang, even after the Tkinter window the test shows is closed.
 
But coming back to running test_tcl within the regrtest suite, and most often than not when the regrtest reaches test_threaded_import I get the message that the test crashed because it could not create threads. Does all this seem like there is a bug somewhere, or is my Python/Tcl/Tkinter copy bad?
 
Thank you

		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
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From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Tue Oct 12 12:57:50 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:57:50 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<1glbyrn.4jt08j144wg1dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<b644658b.0410120040.723f73a1@posting.google.com>
	<1gljja1.1nxj82c1a25c1bN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416bd688$0$21236$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<1gljufr.9d1d5319us58iN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416bf145$0$9373$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<1glk0w7.wac0yl4laurwN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416c0d0e$0$24075$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>


"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:1glk0w7.wac0yl4laurwN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> Nicolas Lehuen <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > > > > Sorry, I don't get your point.  Sure, Windows makes process creation
> > > > > hideously expensive and has no forking.  But all kinds of BSD, including
> > > > > MacOSX, are just great at forking.  Why is a preference for multiple
> > > > > processes over threads "forgetting about BSD, MacOSX", or any other
> > > > > flavour of Unix for that matter?
>    ...
> > mod_python's market (pure guess). So the multithreading issues have not
> > many chances of being fixed soon. That is why I said that a
> > "Linux-centered mindset forgetting [other OSes, none in particular]" is
> > hindering the bugfix process.
>    ...
> > I do hope the point above is cleared.
> 
> It's basically "retracted", as I see thing, except that whatever's left
> still doesn't make any sense to me.  Why should a Linux user need to
> "forget" another system, that's just as perfect for multiprocessing as
> Linux, before deciding he's got better things to do with his or her time
> than work on a problem which multiprocessing finesses>

Because a Linux user could eventually be interested in sharing data amongst different workers - be it processes or threads. Things that are taken for granted in the Java world, like a good connection pool, are still not being used whereas they are really interesting from a performance and management point of view.
 
> > Now, you propose to share objects between Python VMs using shared memory.
> 
> Not necessarily -- as you say, if you need synchronization the problem
> is just about as hard (maybe even worse).  I was just trying to
> understand the focus on multithreading vs multiprocessing, it now
> appears it's more of a focus on the shared-memory paradigm of
> multiprocessing in general.

Exactly. I don't care about multithreading or multiprocessing, I want to share data between my workers. It's just more easily done with threads, as of today. The connection pool example is a good one : how can you easily share TCP connection to a DBMS server between processes ? With threads it's a matter of a few lines of Python code (I'll publish my connection pool code on the Python Cookbook soon).

> > > > Obviously they won't be any worse. Well, to be precise, it still depends
> > > on the OS, because the scheduler must know the difference between 2
> > > processors and a 2-core processor to efficiently balance the work, but
>    ...
> > I am way beyond my competences here, but I've read some articles about
> > hyperthreading-aware schedulers (in WinXP, Win2003, and patches for
> > Linux). The idea is that on multi-core CPUs, threads from the same
> > process should be ran on the same core for maximum cache efficiency,
> > whereas different processes can freely run on different cores. I've read
> 
> And how is this a difference between two processors and two cores within
> the same processor, which is what I quoted you above as saying?  If two
> CPUs do not share caches, the CPU-affinity issues (of processing units
> that share address spaces vs ones that don't) would appear to be the
> same.  If two CPUs share some level of cache (as some multi-CPU designs
> do), that's different from the case where the CPUs share no cache but to
> share RAM.
>
> > But apart from this caveat, yes, multi-threads and multi-processes
> > application equally benefit from multi-core CPUs.
> 
> So it would seem to me, yes -- except that if CPUs share caches this may
> help (perhaps) used of shared memory (if the cache design is optimized
> for that and the scheduler actively helps), even though even in that
> case it doesn't seem to me you can reach the same bandwidth that
> hypertransport promises for a more streaming/message passing approach.
> 
> 
> Alex

The trick is that there are many levels of internal or external cache, and that IIRC from my readings the two cores of a Pentium IV processor with HT share some level of internal cache.

But again, I'm pretty much outsmarted on the subject, so I'll call it quits on the subject of hyperthreading and its compared impact on the threaded model vs the fork model :)

Best regards,

Nicolas





From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Thu Oct  7 19:12:59 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 01:12:59 +0200
Subject: Python script that generates blob files
In-Reply-To: <1097189229.883950.253450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1097189229.883950.253450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4165cd7b$0$36860$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Sean Carey wrote:
> I am wondering if anyone knows of a python script or any other script
> that will generate random files with random sizes that I can specify.

define "random files".

If you're on Linux or similar, just use the dd utility?

Otherwise something like this (where the contents of the file
is left blank):

f=open("filename","wb")
f.seek( desiredsize-1 )
f.write('\0')
f.close()

--Irmen


From aurora00 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 16 13:26:35 2004
From: aurora00 at gmail.com (aurora)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:26:35 -0700
Subject: Python Library Reference is tutorial, not reference
Message-ID: <opsfy32lax6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>

Sometimes it is rather frustrated to use the Python Library Reference. It  
seems each section is hand crafted and it is up to the author decide the  
organization and coverage. For example the os module seems be broken down  
in a somewhat abitrary way. You have to get use to it to find the way  
around.

   http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/module-os.html

Some section, I would said, is more a tutorial than a reference. Most  
frustrating is the material sometimes doesn't seem to be comprehensive.  
For example, I was looking for reference on class cgi.FieldStorage. The  
closet thing I found is some sample code in

   http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/node403.html

I have to look into source code to find all parameters accepted.

   def __init__(self, fp=None, headers=None, outerboundary="",
          environ=os.environ, keep_blank_values=0, strict_parsing=0):

Is Python going to adopt a more systematic organization of reference  
materials, such as the once presented in:
http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/stdlib/public/cgi.FieldStorage-class.html


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 21 02:31:45 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:31:45 -0700
Subject: Method Underscores?
In-Reply-To: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
Message-ID: <20041020232844.0AA1.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote:
> Is there a purpose for using trailing and leading double underscores for 
> built-in method names? My impression was that underscores are supposed 
> to imply some sort of pseudo-privatization, but would using 
> myclass.len() instead of myclass.__len__() really cause Python 
> considerable harm? As much as I adore Python, I have to admit, I find 
> this to be one of the language's most "unPythonic" features and a key 
> arguing point against Python. I've searched for a discussion on this 
> topic in the groups archives, but found little. What are everyone's 
> thoughts on this subject?


Double underscore methods are considered "magic" methods.  The
underscores are a hint that they may do something different.  Kind of
like the C++ friend operators.

In terms of .len() vs .__len__(), it is not supposed to be called
directly by user code; __len__() is called indirectly by the len()
builtin (and similarly for the other __<op>__() methods, check common
spellings in the operator module).

class foo:
    def __len__(self):
        return 4

a = foo()
len(a)    #like this


 - Josiah



From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Mon Oct 18 13:33:49 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:33:49 +0100
Subject: UNIX-style sort in Python?
In-Reply-To: <PMScd.270$%h1.154@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <I-6dnfLpv8Gzl-7cRVn-sw@comcast.com>
	<akEcd.8228$gy1.757@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gluhuw.1yq6gn51631vg6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<PMScd.270$%h1.154@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cl0upv$kdm$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
>> lines = [(get_fields(line), line) for line in open("imputfilename")]
> 
> Bah!  I all too often forget that () on the LHS of the list
> comprehension.  :(

Me too. Could the grammar conceivably be changed so that it works 
without the parantheses there?
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 04:58:51 2004
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:58:51 +0100
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <1gm17rf.1n3hurm1vtl1cbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <20041021081356.GA12496@mylene.ghaering.de>
	<mailman.5255.1098349524.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm17rf.1n3hurm1vtl1cbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c6041022015831cd29aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:33:34 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Young and idealistic, I assume.  Care to name two more SQL engines
> accepting exactly the same dialect as sqlite...?-)

Err, well, idealistic, perhaps. ;-)

In practice, as you say, you often have to tweak your SQL for
different engines. But you really can minimise this by sticking to the
basics. Joe Celko's "I Will Never Have To Port This Code: Debunking
shortcuts and SQL myths"[1] is worth a look, but I can speak from
experience here. I'm working on a system where we mirror parts of an
iSeries DB2 database down to SQL Server. I can and do write even
fairly complex queries that work on both.

Eventually.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon.brunning at gmail.com,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/

[1] http://www.intelligententerprise.com/030422/607celko1_1.jhtml


From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Mon Oct 25 12:51:15 2004
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:51:15 GMT
Subject: Unreliable main window drag for Tkinter/Cygwin
References: <2ef3032f.0410250508.6825b6d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417D3ED7.6472EFDF@pobox.com>

> Is there something wrong with individual canvas updates?

Yes.  `update' can cause event handling code to run at unexpected times;
it's considered problematic even in raw Tcl/Tk code.  See
http://wiki.tcl.tk/1255 for more details.
	Jason Harper


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 24 04:56:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:56:28 +0200
Subject: Invoker of a method
References: <417b6620$0$766$3a628fcd@reader10.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <1gm5ppk.1eccsusa0jd6fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andre Meyer <meyer at acm.org> wrote:

> Hi Pythoneers
> 
> In an application I am developing I want to register the invoker of a
> method call. Is there any way to find out who is invoking an object's
> method? I do not want to rely on the caller telling the callee his name
> explicitly.

inspect.currentframe lets you inspect the call frames up the stack,
including (of course) the caller's one; same as sys._getframe.  However,
I suggest you reconsider using this in production code, as opposed to
debugging or other development-framework tasks.  As the docstring says:

'''
This function should be used for internal and specialized purposes only.
'''

It's not an issue of doing what you desire with one function or another;
if you do it at all, inspect.currentframe is appropriate.  Rather, the
issue is that a function _shouldn't_ go rooting around in frames up the
stack, except for debugging and other instrumentation purposes: such
"black magic" behavior is not recommended, it damages the important
quality of transparence.

Still, Python does give you plenty enough rope to shoot yourself in the
foot, as befits the principles in the "Spirit of C" which Python also
follows: trust the programmer, don't stop the programmer from doing
something that _needs_ to be done.  Just make sure about that 'needs'!-)


Alex


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 27 15:05:14 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:05:14 +0200
Subject: how to check if URL cannot be opened
In-Reply-To: <99ca2e2f.0410270810.222ebad0@posting.google.com>
References: <99ca2e2f.0410270810.222ebad0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417fd54a$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

Hi John,

> Im new to python. So I was hoping someone could provide the following.
> How would I go about checking if a user can be opened. For example if
> user provides www.x.com, how would I check if there is such a url?
> What methods would I need to invoke?

This is the code I use with python greater than 2.3.3:

import urllib2
import socket

def checkUrl(url, timeout=5, SSL=0):
   """Checks an url for a python version greater
      than 2.3.3.
   """

   defTimeOut=socket.getdefaulttimeout()
   socket.setdefaulttimeout(timeout)
   found=1
   try:
     urllib2.urlopen(url)
   except (urllib2.HTTPError, urllib2.URLError,
           socket.error, socket.sslerror):
     found=0
   socket.setdefaulttimeout(defTimeOut)
   return found

Please note that I use the setdefaulttimeout method of the module socket 
because sometimes, specially if you type invalid ssl urls, the main 
thread will take a long time till you see an answer. With the timeout, 
it will wait for 5 seconds, then it will return. I also use the urllib2 
because its urlopen method is better than the original of urllib: Some 
webservers like zope, return an error page when an url isn't found; with 
urllib.urlopen, this page will be considered as a normal page. On the 
other hand, the urllib2.urlopen will raise an exception.

Regards,
Josef


From 400440 at excite.com  Fri Oct  8 03:24:39 2004
From: 400440 at excite.com (rob)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 00:24:39 -0700
Subject: IpAddrCtrl.SetValue() problems
Message-ID: <104cc0e1.0410072324.2d9cde63@posting.google.com>

Hello! :)

I'm relatively new to python so bear with me. I have run into a
problem with IPAddrCtrl and can't seem to find any info on google etc.
Here is a code snippet from my app and the error.  I just want to set
a default value in the IP address field from a variable read from a
config file is all...

CODE:
(just the important bits)
NOTE: I changed the 2nd import a little to make it more ovbious that I
was using masked.IPAddrCtrl in the code.
-----------
#from wx.lib.maskededit import IpAddrCtrl ## old import format
import wx.lib.masked as masked 

    self.ip = masked.IpAddrCtrl(self, -1, style = wx.TE_PROCESS_TAB)
    self.ip.SetValue(config.Get("ipaddress"))

-----------

ERROR:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "mydlg.pyo", line 787, in IPAddrDialog
  File "mydlg.pyo", line 240, in __init__
  File "wx\lib\masked\ipaddrctrl.pyo", line 148, in SetValue
NameError: global name 'types' is not defined

Oh and I'm using wxpython 2.5.2.8u and Python 2.3.4.  I did have this
working with the previous version of wxpython (2.5.1.5u) and I have
changed the imports accordingly (I think).  Can anyone help me out
with this as I have been stuck on this for a few days now.

Thanks

-Rob


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 12:52:37 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:52:37 -0200
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <cl0o0i$esd$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5117.1098111477.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0o0i$esd$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <864d370904101809527cc6e1b4@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:42:15 +0200, Stefan Behnel
<behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro schrieb:
> > def walk(self):
> >    """generator-based recursive tree traversal"""
> >    yield child
> >    for child in childs:
> >         transfer child.walk()
> >
> > It's quite weird -- a generator plus a direct flow-of-execution
> > transfer. It's not a goto, its not a co-routine... It requires a new
> > keyword ('transfer', in this case), which _is_ a real problem --
> > something like this can't be lightly proposed. In this case, it's just
> > a thought experiment, at this point; nothing serious, and far from a
> > proposal.
> 
> 
> I know what it feels like. I had to implement the same thing for a
> recursive parser once - looks somewhat inefficient to iterate over a
> iterator only for yielding the iterator's results...
> 
> Maybe you know the itertools module?
> 
> http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/itertools-functions.html
> 
> It has some nice functions that can make this sort of code more readable
> (and maybe even more efficient). You may find itertoold.chain especially
> useful.

Thanks -- that's a really good reference. I think I should read more
of the documentation instead of banging up my own home made solution
:-) Anyway, it does not solve the recursion problem per se, but it
gave me some ideas on own can I rewrite the code. I'll try it later...


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Sun Oct 24 09:09:50 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:09:50 +0200
Subject: IDLE--what are your experiences with it?
References: <Pm8ed.3143$Ag.3109@fe37.usenetserver.com>
	<c718a6cf.0410221726.ae212a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417ba9aa$0$770$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>

thanks will try it out

"Y2KYZFR1" <jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c718a6cf.0410221726.ae212a4 at posting.google.com...
> Kevin Walzer <sw at wordtech-software.com> wrote in message
news:<Pm8ed.3143$Ag.3109 at fe37.usenetserver.com>...
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > I'm looking for other peoples' viewpoints about their experiences with
> > IDLE as an editor--what are its good points? What are its limitations?
> > Any advice/insight is appreciated.
> >
>
> it is the lowest common denominator.
>
> there are MUCH MUCH better alternatives
>
> www.xored.com has a nice plugin for Eclipse 3.x
>
> that is much better than IDLE




From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 20:20:09 2004
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony C)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 17:20:09 -0700
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
References: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac.0410261620.62a6f432@posting.google.com>

"Russell E. Owen" <rowen at cesmail.net> wrote in message news:<rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu>...
> I'm trying to launch an application from Python 2.3 on Windows. The 
> application is "ds9" (an image viewer), and is installed in C:\Program 
> Files\ds9\ds9

> On Windows os.popen3("ds9") does nothing, and the stderr returned from 

This won't work unless the installer for DS9 or someone manually put
the directory where DS9 is installed, into the path.


for long paths try using raw strings as in
os.popen3(r"C:\My Long Dir\My Long Program\MyProg.exe")


From nospam at nowhere.com  Sat Oct 30 20:37:19 2004
From: nospam at nowhere.com (Greg Copeland)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:37:19 -0500
Subject: Plugin system
References: <41839c8b$0$78279$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<2uhla5F2ahviqU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5713.1099148777.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.31.00.37.16.955081@nowhere.com>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:58:27 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:

> 
> Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Irmen de Jong wrote:
>> > Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
>> > 
>> >> How would you implement a plugin system (for a web-based application)?
>> > 
>> > This is so general a question that I cannot think of anything concrete to answer.
>> > Please ask again, with more detail about what you want/need/have in mind.
>> 
>> Okay, the question is too open: My focus is on how you would structure
>> the plugin code (directories, files) and how you would write code to
>> load these plugins.
> 
> ...Have a place for plugins
> app/plugins
> 
> ...Load the plugins on startup
> import traceback
> import os
> for fn in os.listdir('plugins'):
>     if fn[:1] != '_' and fn.split('.')[-1] in ('py', 'pyw'):
>         try:
>             globals()[fn] = \
>               __import__('plugins.%s'%fn, globals(), locals(), [fn])
>         except:
>             traceback.print_exc()
> 
> Etcetera.  May not be the best, but it will get the job done.
> 
>  - Josiah

Just FYI, dynamically loaded plugins will not be caught by tools like
py2exe.  Another mechanism, which may be more py2exe friendly, is to make
a tool which dynamically creates a python file, which lists all of the
imports.  That way, you import the dynamically created file, but once it's
created, you immediately leverage the file for use with py2exe, which can
now follow all of the imports.

Of course, if you never plan on being a py2exe user, you can happily
ignore my ramblings.  ;)

Cheers,

Greg




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 15:28:43 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:28:43 +0200
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4434.1097083458.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl979t.1qfgeyyrv4ruvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Kendall Clark <kendall at monkeyfist.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 07:11:02PM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > Ruby has this convention and it seems to work wonderfully well for them.
> > I wish Python could grow it, too, but I don't think I stand any chance
> > of convincing Guido -- perhaps somebody else can.
> 
> For my money this is *the* biggest syntactic wart in Python. I think ?

I don't think of this as a wart, personally -- just a little _lack_.

> and ! at the ends of function/method names is an insanely good idea
> that Python should steal. I'm not holding my breath, but it would be
> really great to at least have a community conversation about this.

Sure, we should make a PEP if we have any real hope of it ever really
happening...


Alex


From wl at flexis.de  Thu Oct  7 11:30:31 2004
From: wl at flexis.de (Wolfgang Langner)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:30:31 +0200
Subject: 2.3.4 windows installer
In-Reply-To: <ck3hs6$dri$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <ck3hs6$dri$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <ck3nh3$2hp7$1@news.LF.net>

Hello,

Brad Tilley wrote:
> Is there an easy way to make the windows installer default to c:\Program 
> Files\Python23 instead of c:\Python23? I know that the path can be 
> changed manually at install, but that's a pain when you have 
> dozens/hundreds of machines.

In version 2.4 there is a msi installer. It is possible to use a command line
switch that points to a new install dir.
Wrap this in a batch or something else and you are done.

I don't know if it's possible to supply the installer of version 2.3 with
a command line switch.

bye by Wolfgang


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct 12 11:51:24 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 15:51:24 GMT
Subject: Linux and OS/X on the [desk|lap]top [was Re: Database
	Connectivity]
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
	<1gl8by8.1ay6g301hrswe8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<XZfad.18001$b5.884997@news3.tin.it>
	<Bdhad.18298$b5.899971@news3.tin.it>
	<BvCdne92t9yqU_fcRVn-pw@megapath.net>
	<mailman.4723.1097525156.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gljewt.t3m4wtirod26N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4756.1097593830.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416bfd7c$0$420$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-12, Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:

> Actually Linux now has one single feature that makes using a
> laptop with it far more pleasurable (from my experience) than
> any other laptop I've tried: it's possible to setup the
> Synaptics touchpad (and Alps too, although it's more
> difficult) to have vertical and horizontal scroll areas (much
> like a scroll-wheel on a mouse, but in both directions).

When I upgraded to Mandrake 10.0, I had to futz around (like
installing the Synaptics driver) to get the touchpad to work
during portable use and the mouse to work during docked use.

A side effect was the appearance of the scroll areas.  I didn't
know they where there at first, and they drove me completely
nuts.  I thought the touchpad hardware had gone flakey on me.
Once I figured out what was going on and got used to them, I
agree: they're fantastick.  I'm not too keen on some
application's mapping of the horizontal scroll area "buttons",
but I could probably fix that.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I guess you guys got
                                  at               BIG MUSCLES from doing too
                               visi.com            much STUDYING!


From matt at mwilliams.org  Tue Oct  5 07:39:49 2004
From: matt at mwilliams.org (Matt Williams)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 04:39:49 -0700
Subject: Easy List question
Message-ID: <dd7a3c47.0410050339.efad894@posting.google.com>

Dear list,

Can anyone explain why the append method here returns an 'unpermuted'
list (and how to solve it_?

I'm stuck?


s=[]
def permute(list):
    len_l = len(list)
    if len_l == 1:      
        print l
        s.append(l)
    for i in range (0, len_l):
        permute(list[1:])
        # now change position of first element with next (rotate will
do it?)
        list.append(list.pop(0))
        # reflect this change in the main list
        l[len(l) - len_l:] = list
		
		

l=["a","b","c"]

permute(l)


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 27 16:35:04 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:35:04 +0200
Subject: using re.finditer()
References: <417fe88d$1@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <clp0oh$ra3$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Erik Johnson wrote:

> pat = r'<td.*?>(.*?)</td>'
> for match in re.finditer(pat, html):
> print?match.group(1)
> 
> 
> The?iterator?returned?seems?to?work?fine?to?step?through?items?that
> happen to be contained within one line. That is, you can step through
> flat, one-line td's, but if you want to step through tr's, this doesn't
> work (run this code and notice Data 2-2 is not there). finditer() doesn't
> accept a flag like re.DOTALL, as re.match() and re.search() do. It seems a
> shame not to be able to put an otherwise smart design to use.

There was a discussion on python-dev recently concerning "missing arguments"
in re.findall() and re.finditer(), see

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/048662.html

I think no change was made as there is already an alternative spelling:

r = re.compile(r'<td.*?>(.*?)</td>', re.DOTALL)
for match in r.finditer(html):
    print match.group(1)

(or two, I didn't know about the option to embed flags in the string until
Robert Brewer's post).

Peter




From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Fri Oct 22 06:50:56 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:50:56 +0200
Subject: Recursive function to develop permutations
References: <RiZcd.840$5i5.671@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1xgm3fmnt1squ.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Steve Goldman (2004-10-19 02:34 +0200)
> I am trying to come up with a way to develop all n-length permutations of a
> given list of values.

I'm sorry but there are no "n-length permutations" in
mathematics/combinatorics. There are variations and combinations -
each of them with and without repetition. The difference is that with
combinations order of the elements is irrelevant and with variations
order is relevant.

Permutations always have the full length of the original list.
Permutations are divided in permutations with and without repetition
(like combinations and variations).

For an (unoptimized) version of permutations see:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/indentation.html


Thorsten

PS If you are interested I can post the code for all six
possibilities. The code computes optionally the size of the result
list (because this grows big very soon) so you don't run out of memory
or time


From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Oct  7 18:23:45 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 00:23:45 +0200
Subject: c compiler on Windows
In-Reply-To: <41657fca$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <4163c182$0$260$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<41657fca$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <4165c1a3$0$252$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> Max M wrote:
>
> VC 6.0 is fine if you want to build for python up through 2.3.* on
> windows.  VC 7.1 is the way to go for 2.4 and on.  There is a free
> compiler that you can download from Microsoft to build for 2.4, but
> I have yet to be able to fully build a module for it.

Thanks.

I will try using VC 6.0 until Python 2.4 is official and in general use. 
I think that is the path of least resistance currently.

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From tlviewer at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 13:19:52 2004
From: tlviewer at yahoo.com (gnu valued customer)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:19:52 GMT
Subject: Python in HTAs
References: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <YWScd.409$gq2.308@trnddc01>


"Marcel van den Dungen" <m_vddungen at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4 at posting.google.com...
> Does anybody know how to use Python as the scripting language for HTML
> applications? I tried the following, but I get a script error ('Object
> expected') on the body element.

(Using Win2k sp3 with IE 6 sp1, 
    Active Python 2.3)

You need to use a version of Python with a registered
script engine supporting Active Scripting (Win32 only).

Save your code with the HTA extension. Be reminded that an
HTA is hosted by mshta.exe not Internet Explorer.

To run your code here, I made one small correction
below. I edit with UltraEdit32. After making the change
I pressed the "Run in Default Browser" switch
and it worked.

hth,
tlviewer
> 
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>Python controlled HTML application</title>
> <hta:application id="oApplication">
> <script language="python">
> def Onload():
>     alert('hello from python')
>     document.all["idspan"] = 'hello from python'

 document.getElementById('idspan').innerHTML = 'hello from python'

> </script>
> </head>
> <body onload="Onload();">
> <span id="idspan" ></span>
> </body>
> </html>
> 
> Could not find any example on Google either.
> 
> TIA,
> Marcel


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Oct 11 11:10:35 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:10:35 -0400
Subject: DISLIN or gnuplot.py
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.10.20.50.39.807116@pacbell.net>
References: <pan.2004.10.10.20.50.39.807116@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <44mdnbx24ej1P_fcRVn-jg@giganews.com>

Richard wrote:


> Any suggestions on Python plotting modules? (DISLIN or gnuplot.py or ????)

neither, use matplotlib instead:

http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/

Istvan.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  3 04:27:15 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:27:15 +0200
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gl2s8a.1imgbyqcxntogN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

zipher <zondervanz at gmail.com> wrote:

> After searching through comp.lang.python and the web regarding
> metaclasses, I could not find an example for customing classes using
> metaclass parameters.

When a class statement executes, Python determines the metaclass (e.g.
by finding a '__metaclass__' attribute in the class body) and then calls
it with three parameters -- never more, never fewer:

class name(bases):
    __metaclass__ = metaboo
    ...rest of class body snipped...

is exactly equivalent to:

name = metaboo('name', bases, d)

where 'd' is the dict that remains after execution of the class body
(all barenames bound in the body -- be that by def, class, assignment,
import, whatever -- are left as entries in that 'd').

> I want to be able to create a class at runtime by calling some

All classes are created at runtime, normally by executing (at runtime:
there is no other 'time'...;-) a 'class' statement.

> function or 'meta-constructor' which returns a customized class and
> sets a class attribute according a given parameter.
> 
> Ideally, I'd be able to do something like:
> 
> >>> Bag = Metadict(filter=int) #Metadict returns a new class named
> 'Bag'

The normal Python syntax for that purpose might rather be:

class Bag:
    __metaclass__ = Metadict
    filter = int

and for that use, Medadict would be rather simple to write... but
your stated purpose (to this point) is even better accomplished by:

class Bag(dict):
    filter = int    

> >>> issubclass(Bag, dict)      #  which is a type of dict
> True
> >>> Bag.filter                 #  with class attribute set accordingly
> <type 'int'>
> >>> b = Bag({'pennies': 6.0, 'dimes': 3})  #create instances of this
> new class
> 
> (Aside:  the issue of magically knowing the variable name (i.e. 'Bag')
> in that first assignment statement and setting the class name
> accordingly would be ideal, but I could live with passing the name as
> a parameter to Metadict if necessary.)

If you want to explicitly call Metadict as a factory, rather than use a
'class' statement, yep, there is then no way in which Metadict can know
what name its result will be bound to, so you'd have to pass it.  But
why isn't a class statement even better?

> There would also be a number of new and re-defined methods which would
> be part of all classes constructed and returned by calls to Metadict.
> For example, somewhere I need to re-define dict's __setitem__ method
> to something like:
> 
> >>> def __setitem__(self, key, value):
> ...     self[key] = self.filter(value) #coerce/validate values before
> adding to dict
> 
> Ideally, all such methods would be in their own class definition since
> they will be common to all classes created by Metadict (perhaps they
> would need be defined within Metadict itself).

No, this is best done by inheritance:

class Bag(filtered_dict):
    filter = int

with, e.g:

class filtered_dict(dict):
    def __setitem__(self, key, value):
        dict.__setitem__(self, key, self.filter(value))

> This seems like a simple thing to want, but unusally convoluted to
> actually implement.  I'm not even sure where to start.
> 
> Any pointers?

I would start with inheritance, because I don't see what value a custom
metaclass would add; indeed I see only downsides, such as needing to
pass the intended class name, if you want to use explicit-call syntax.

If it does turn out that subclasses of filtered_dict all DO need a
custom metaclass, for reasons connected to specs you haven't yet
mentioned, just add the metaclass (with a __metaclass__ in the body) to
filtered_dict, and every subclass thereof will inherit it.  That's all
there is to it... class statement, and inheritance, appear to give you
all that you have required/explained so far, except the kind of syntax
you deem ideal (but is really second best, due to the need to pass a
class name...).


Alex


From loritsch at gmail.com  Sat Oct 16 14:40:36 2004
From: loritsch at gmail.com (Michael Loritsch)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 11:40:36 -0700
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
References: <mailman.5015.1097859379.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.15.14.48.29.705882@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <e253918f.0410161040.3ef42851@posting.google.com>

Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.15.14.48.29.705882 at jerf.org>...
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:56:12 -0500, Donnal Walter wrote:
> 
> > The following method is defined in one of my classes:
> > 
> >      def setup(self, items={}):
> >          """perform setup based on a dictionary of items"""
> >          if 'something' in items:
> >              value = items['something']
> >              # now do something with value
> ...
> 
> It mostly depends on the contents of the "do something with value" that
> you have peppered throughout. I would pull out the various "do somethings"
> into methods, but other then that, if you need the full flexibility of a
> dict that can contain anything and you need to do things with arbitrary
> combinations, there is little else to do.
> 
> After pulling things out into methods, I'd actually shift the "if"
> statement into the method and do something like the following:
> 
> def setup(self, items = None):
>     if items is None:
>         items = {}
> 
>     self.items = items
> 
>     for method in ('something', 'another', 'spam', 'eggs'):
>         getattr(self, method)()
> 
> which will make it more flexible in the long term.
> 
> A few other things leap to mind (might want to separate the self.item
> setting from the loop, so children can override the loop without messing
> up items in calls to the super class; if you don't know what I mean
> because I'm being somewhat vague here, don't worry :-) ), but that's about
> all you can do without getting silly.

I agree with Jeremy here that everything depends on what "do something
with value" means.

After looking over this thread though, it appears to me that having
the 'setup()' method perform a dispatch operation using a dictionary
defined at class scope would be an easy, and extensible choice.

This way, one would not have to override the 'setup' method in derived
classes, rather one would only have to replace the class level
dispatch map, which in the examples below is named 'setupMap'.

Consider the following code, which would take a list or tuple to the
setup function.

class ListSetup:    

    def setup(self, items = None):
        if items is None:
            items = ()
        #Note, here a list is being used instead of a dictionary
        for item in items:
            if self.setupMap.has_key(item): #Ignore extra items
                self.setupMap[item](self)

    def setupfunction1(self):
        print "Called ListSetup.setupfunction1"

    def setupfunction2(self):
        print "Called ListSetup.setupfunction2"

    #This is the key to the whole thing -> a dictionary used for
    #dispatching the correct calls
    setupMap = {'something':setupfunction1, 'another':setupfunction2}


The key is in the class scope dictionary 'setupMap'.  If a key is
provided in the setup call, each of the appropropiate member functions
will be called.

On the other hand, if the 'values' stored in the dictionary passed in
are also important, we can incorporate that into our solution, by
passing them to our setupfunctionX methods as arguments.

Here is a similar solution, using an items dictionary:

class DictSetup:

    def setup(self, items = None):
        if items is None:
            items = {}
        #Note, here we are expecting a dictionary
        for key in items.keys():
            if self.setupMap.has_key(key): #Ignore extra items
                self.setupMap[key](self, items[key])
                
    def setupfunction1(self, value):
        print "Called DictSetup.setupfunction1 with value", value

    def setupfunction2(self, value):
        print "Called DictSetup.setupfunction2 with value", value

    #Again, this is the key to the whole thing -> a dictionary used
    #for dispatching the correct calls
    setupMap = {'something':setupfunction1, 'another':setupfunction2}

I hope this helps!

Michael Loritsch


From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Mon Oct 18 08:11:53 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:11:53 +0200
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Here I am using some deeply nested, tree-like data structures. In some
> situations I need to traverse the tree; the old-style way to do it is
> to write a recursive method on the node class, as in:
> 
> def walk(self):
>     """old-style recursive tree traversal"""
>     child.do_something
>     for child in childs:
>         child.walk()
> 
[...]
> 
> def walk(self):
>     """generator-based recursive tree traversal"""
>     yield child
>     for child in childs:
>         for node in child.walk()
>             yield node
> 
[...]
> I'm now wondering which is better: to keep using old-style recursive
> tree traversal code, or to chained-yield generator solution. It's more
> of a stylistic decision -- I'm not concerned about raw performance at
> this point, but clarity and elegancy of design are more important.
> 

You must also consider the code that uses the iteration, at least if you 
want to walk the structure for multiple purposes

# In the recursive case
def nodeHandler (node):
     node.do_something ()

root.walk (nodeHandler)

# in the generator case
for node in root.walk ():
     node.do_something ()

And the latter can also be fed into routines that expect an iterator.

Compare also os.path.walk with os.walk.

Daniel


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 07:04:36 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 04:04:36 -0700
Subject: Equivalent of Javascript Bitwise Operators
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410270304.5329539c@posting.google.com>

Please pardon my ignorance on this one - but I'm not certain how the
sign bt is treated in python bitwise operators. I've trying to convert
a javascript DES encryption routine into python.

Javascritp has >>> and >>. >>> is a zero fill bit shift whereas >> is
a sign propagating bit shift. My understanding is that the python >>
is equivalent to the javascript >> - but python has no equivalent to
>>>.

Would a >>> 3 in javascript be equivalent to abs(a) >> 3 in python
(make sure the sign bit is set to zero first) ?

In actual fact I'm now using DES3 from Pycrypto - but I'm still
interested in the answer to the question. In case anyone is interested
I've done some work with some Javascript encryption and python
equivalents. Thsi allows you to build client side encryption into
webpages - e.g. for secure logins. It all works - very nice.

Regards,

Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk /atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From spam at nospam.org  Tue Oct 26 16:00:00 2004
From: spam at nospam.org (Erik Johnson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:00:00 -0600
Subject: using re: hitting recursion limit
Message-ID: <417eab49$1@nntp.zianet.com>


    I have done a fair amount of regular expression text processing in Perl,
and am currently trying to convert a running Perl script into Python (for a
number of reasons I won't go into here). I have not had any problems with
memory limits using Perl, but in trying to clip out a particular table from
a web page, I am hitting Python's recursion limit.

The RE is pretty simple:

pat = '(<table.*?%s.*?</table>)' % magic_string

    This seems about as simple as a "real-world" RE can get. If I cut down
the web page to about 150 lines, this works, but that's not practical - the
table I need to parse can easily gro to over 1000 lines.  I found the
following bit in the reference manual from section 4.2.6:

#------------------------------------------------------------------------
Avoiding recursion
If you create regular expressions that require the engine to perform a lot
of recursion, you may encounter a RuntimeError exception with the message
maximum recursion limit exceeded. For example,


>>> import re
>>> s = 'Begin ' + 1000*'a very long string ' + 'end'
>>> re.match('Begin (\w| )*? end', s).end()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 132, in match
    return _compile(pattern, flags).match(string)
RuntimeError: maximum recursion limit exceeded
You can often restructure your regular expression to avoid recursion.

Starting with Python 2.3, simple uses of the *? pattern are special-cased to
avoid recursion. Thus, the above regular expression can avoid recursion by
being recast as Begin [a-zA-Z0-9_ ]*?end. As a further benefit, such regular
expressions will run faster than their recursive equivalents.

#------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yeah, so this is a known problem, and sure enough, if you run this
example, it will crap out as shown above.  I tried to build 2.3 from sources
before and ran into other funky problems. When I get a standard SuSE
distribution, I will upgrade to 2.3. In the meantime, I'm running 2.2.

If you take the advice and recast the RE as they suggest...

>>> pat = r'Begin [a-zA-Z0-9_ ]*?end'
>>> re.match(pat, s)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/sre.py", line 132, in match
    return _compile(pattern, flags).match(string)
RuntimeError: maximum recursion limit exceeded
>>>

    Ummm... wow... big improvement. :(  And what if I am trying to match
'.*?' instead of '\w*?', is trying to build the equivalent mess for dot
going to help me? Didn't help for \w here anyway.  So, there may be various
ways I can hack my way around this, but this is not making me a happy
camper. There are a lot of things I like about Python, but running into this
sort of thing so early is definitely not giving me a warm fuzzy feeling
about using Python as a general replacement for Perl.

    One question is, "Does getting this error actually mean I have hit my
process' stack memory limit or is there possibly some artificial recursion
limit set in front of that?" If there is some number I can push up, I'd be
happy to let it run until the OS axes it for exceeding it's process limits
(i.e., I'm not clear on whether this RuntimeError imples that's what has
already happened). I'm not finding much of anything trying to Google "Python
recursion limit" (though I obviously haven't read all of the 10,000+ pages
Google will hit.) It hits this error basically "immediately", so it seems
unlikely to me that it has actually use all of the machiens memory, or even
all of my process' memory in under a tenth of a second:

ej at sand:~/src/python> time ./find_table.py

pat = '(<table.*?Unit No.*?</table>)'

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./find_table.py", line 22, in ?
    match = re.search(pat, html, re.DOTALL)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/sre.py", line 137, in search
    return _compile(pattern, flags).search(string)
RuntimeError: maximum recursion limit exceeded

real    0m0.049s
user    0m0.050s
sys     0m0.000s

    I can probably hack my way around this and just use substrings to pick
out my table but there are other situations where there are multiple tables
before, after, and nested around the table that I want, all of which change
dynamically. I can't be very confident that a magic string alone inside
table tags is going to be unique. RE definitely seems like the fast and
painless (or rather, less painful) way to go here.  So, short of telling me
to use 2.3 or a way I can reconfigure what the recursion limit is,
suggestions about smarter ways to pick out a table under those conditions
are welcomed.

    As sort of an aside, I am aware of the ulimit command, as I poked around
with it a bit years ago, but am no systems guru. I remember it being a
stand-alone program under /sbin, but on my SuSE 8.2 system it appears to be
incorporated into bash itself? I do have root privs, so if you think you
have a solution via ulimit, I'm happy to hear, but it would appear I am not
being restricted by that:

ej at sand:~/src/python> ulimit
unlimited
ej at sand:~/src/python>

ej at sand:~/src/python> ulimit -a
core file size        (blocks, -c) 0
data seg size         (kbytes, -d) unlimited
file size             (blocks, -f) unlimited
max locked memory     (kbytes, -l) unlimited
max memory size       (kbytes, -m) unlimited
open files                    (-n) 1024
pipe size          (512 bytes, -p) 8
stack size            (kbytes, -s) unlimited
cpu time             (seconds, -t) unlimited
max user processes            (-u) 2047
virtual memory        (kbytes, -v) unlimited



    Thanks for taking the time to read my post! :)

-ej






From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 15 01:50:53 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:50:53 -0700
Subject: Not enough space error?
In-Reply-To: <01b801c4b275$d70f2bf0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
References: <1097816603.20309.20.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<01b801c4b275$d70f2bf0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
Message-ID: <20041014225011.0975.JCARLSON@uci.edu>



>   On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 10:09 +0800, Joe Wong wrote:
>   > Hi,
>   >  
>   >  I have a script that runs on Windows. Last night, it throw an except
>   > saying:
>   >  
>   > IOError Errno 12 not enough space
>   >  
>   > This happens on the "open()" call. I check and there is plenty of
>   > diskspace available on my Windows 2000 box.
>   >  
>   > What could be the cause of this error here?

You are running windows 2k, but how big is the file?

 - Josiah



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 20 02:56:59 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:56:59 +0200
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
References: <mailman.5138.1098132727.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl2ldp$p5o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5179.1098204696.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.5184.1098208437.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl3mgv$i24$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1glx9uk.19y2l5yvlo403N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<UPfdd.4446$bV5.684@trndny07>
	<1glxgyr.d4rury1kve6fhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cl526u$t4g$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Raymond Hettinger <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> [Alex Martelli]
>> > Stylistically, I prefer
>> >     iter(random.random, None)
>> > using the 2-args form of the built-in iter, to
>> >     itertools.starmap(random.random, itertools.repeat(()))
>> 
>> FWIW, I prefer loading the itertools recipes so I can write:
>> 
>>      repeatfunc(random.random)
>> 
>> IMO, that is plainer than both the iter() and starmap() versions.
> 
> I agree, but I cannot distribute Python code containing that, since the
> itertools recipes aren't part of the stdlib.
> 
> 
>> > However, itertools IS a speed demon...:
>> >
>> > kallisti:~/cb alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import random, itertools as
>> > it'
>> > \     > 'list(it.islice(iter(random.random, None), 666))'
>> > 1000 loops, best of 3: 884 usec per loop
>> >
>> > kallisti:~/cb alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import random, itertools as
>> > it'
>> > \     > 'list(it.islice(it.starmap(random.random, it.repeat(())),
>> > 666))' 1000 loops, best of 3: 407 usec per loop
>> 
>> Also time:
>> 
>>     iter(random.random, 1.0)
>> 
>> IIRC, floats compare to each other faster than a float to None.
> 
> Excellent observation!  They do indeed:
> 
> kallisti:~/cb/little_neat_things alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import
> random, itertools as it' 'list(it.islice(iter(random.random, 1.0),
> 666))'
> 1000 loops, best of 3: 564 usec per loop

My first idea was to entirely remove the sentinel, but the benchmarks were a
bit disappointing (not to mention any stylistic damage). So just for the
record:

from random import random
from itertools import *

N = 666

def star():
    return list(islice(starmap(random, repeat(())), N))

class Rand(object):
    next = random
    def __iter__(self): return self

def iter_inf(rand=Rand()):
    return list(islice(iter(rand), N))

def iter_sent(sentinel):
    return list(islice(iter(random, sentinel), N))

$ ./python -m timeit -s"import bench" "bench.star()"
10000 loops, best of 3: 125 usec per loop
$ ./python -m timeit -s"import bench" "bench.iter_sent(None)"
1000 loops, best of 3: 238 usec per loop
$ ./python -m timeit -s"import bench" "bench.iter_sent(1.0)"
10000 loops, best of 3: 175 usec per loop
$ ./python -m timeit -s"import bench" "bench.iter_inf()"
10000 loops, best of 3: 170 usec per loop

Peter



From just at xs4all.nl  Wed Oct  6 18:18:30 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:18:30 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mzz1rk0x.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
	<mailman.4287.1096945195.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<96c2e938.0410050738.3e65ff5e@posting.google.com>
	<1gl8ciq.sqxbf1q3i6f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <just-9489FC.00183007102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <1gl8ciq.sqxbf1q3i6f3N%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
 aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

> G. S. Hayes <sjdevnull at yahoo.com> wrote:
>    ...
> >     def __getattr__(self, attr):
> >         if not hasattr(self, attr):
> 
> redundant: hasattr(self, attr) will ALWAYS be false here, or else
> __getattr__ wouldn't have been entered in the first place.

Worse, hasattr(self, attr) will invoke self.__getattr__()...

Just


From siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk  Thu Oct 28 11:26:18 2004
From: siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk (Sion Arrowsmith)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 16:26:18 +0100 (BST)
Subject: How to set the size of wxFrame
References: <4180d8de@news.seeder.net>
Message-ID: <oSi*Mpeyq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

In article <4180d8de at news.seeder.net>, Austin <austin at maxtronic.com.tw> wrote:
>i create a frame and a panel in that.
>i hope the size of the frame is not to be adjusted.
>How could i do ?

(a) Make sure your frame's style doesn't include wx.RESIZE_BORDER

or

(b) self.SetSizeHints(self.GetSize(), self.GetSize())

I believe the first is more portable (across wxPython versions and
platforms), but something like the second might be more useful if
you're setting the size yourself.

-- 
\S -- siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk -- http://www.chaos.org.uk/~sion/
  ___  |  "Frankly I have no feelings towards penguins one way or the other"
  \X/  |    -- Arthur C. Clarke
   her nu become? se bera eadward ofdun hl?ddre heafdes b?ce bump bump bump


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 03:42:02 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:42:02 +0200
Subject: Creating new classes on the fly
References: <mailman.4376.1097009632.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gla4id.eu73uh1clm50oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

> I need to create new classes on the fly with different default
> parameters, stored as class attributes. Of course, there's a reason
> behind it: I need new classes, because I need to be able to build
> multiple instances of them later. And I need new defaults, because the
> values can't be provided at instantiation time (because of scoping &
> mutability issues).
> 
> I've found two different ways to do it in the documentation:
> 
> new.classobj(name, baseclasses, dict)

This normally makes a 'classic class', unless some baseclasses are
non-classic (e.g., object or other built-ins); note that __metaclass__
in dict is ignored.

> 
> and:
> 
> type(name, bases, dict)

This makes a new-style class (again,  __metaclass__ in dict is ignored).

> 
> I assume that both end up calling the same code, but I really don't
> know which one am I supposed to call, in terms of being the most
> 'pythonic' way. Are both the same? Is one of them preferred over the
> other?

They're not quite the same, if the bases tuple is empty or only has
classic classes.  I would normally use the second form because new-style
classes are generally preferred.


Alex


From pcooke at philc.net  Sat Oct 30 00:11:47 2004
From: pcooke at philc.net (PhilC)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:11:47 -0400
Subject: Finding the array index number for known content.
References: <3ir5o0djeqc4me3oh735oomvqijdanj63s@4ax.com>
	<mailman.5696.1099107985.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ao46o0l7qs0ert1r0gklvqf5q9nok2ptdf@4ax.com>

Hi Skip,

This is very much appreciated. I certainly understand the fishing
concept. I'm probably like many others here in that I have no formal
computer training. (I used to be a plumber :) I think I've downloaded
.... and more to the point read .... most of the major help files but
with this last one I was truly stuck.

Now going to go through your and Josiah's answers in greater depth.

Again my sincere thanks to you both.

Phil


From ygizhtvpgf at pobox.netmails.net  Wed Oct 13 14:25:37 2004
From: ygizhtvpgf at pobox.netmails.net (jack horsfield)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:25:37 +0100
Subject: Can't connect to MS Exchange (SMTP) from WinXP
References: <4f0a9fdb.0410030135.661a708c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <17fbnq4jywkc7$.1bru6i6pu6z9k$.dlg@40tude.net>

On 3 Oct 2004 02:35:14 -0700, Miki Tebeka wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> I can't connect to our Excahnge server using smtplib from a WinXP box.
> Connection to the same server from a Linux box works.
> 
> The code:
> from smtplib import SMTP
> s = SMTP("our-mail-server")
> 
> Works fine on Linux but gives the following error in WinXP:
> raceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\cygwin\tmp\smtpchk", line 5, in ?
>     s = SMTP("our-mail-server")
>   File "C:\apps\Python23\lib\smtplib.py", line 240, in __init__
>     (code, msg) = self.connect(host, port)
>   File "C:\apps\Python23\lib\smtplib.py", line 302, in connect
>     raise socket.error, msg
> socket.error: (10053, 'Software caused connection abort')
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks.


is your antivirus software blocking the SMTP port (25)? McAfee 8.0i does so
by default...


jack
Good Morning! said Bilbo, and he meant it


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sun Oct  3 20:20:41 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:20:41 -0400
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <864d37090410031607785e98d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d37090410031607785e98d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41609759.10704@rogers.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
...

>BTW, once I finish my deep imersion into new style classes, which
>includes metaclasses and descriptors, I intend to write a tutorial and
>post it somewhere. It's a fascinating topic, but the documentation
>seems to assume that you already know what is this stuff useful for
>:-) A tutorial would help to clarify stuff greatly.
>  
>
My PyCon presentation (available here 
http://www.vrplumber.com/programming/ ) was explicitly targeted at 
answering that question (what they are good for/when and why you would 
use them).

Have fun,
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From srumbalski at copper.net  Wed Oct  6 01:08:50 2004
From: srumbalski at copper.net (Steven Rumbalski)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 01:08:50 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41637c12_1@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
>>Had you read the tutorial, you would discover the answers to all of
>>these questions, but I'll answer them anyways.
[snipping many answers]
> I can't believe you answered all of them, thank you.   Sorry for pissing
> folks off over here.

I don't know how helpful his answers will be to you.  A computer language is
usually much more than a grab bag of features.  A well-designed language is
a constellation of features that work together to encourage an certain way
of expressing solutions to problems.

Python is a well designed language that focuses on a few simple ideas (name
semantics, dictionaries, simplicity of expression, trusting the programmer)
to make a surprisingly powerful and expressive language.

It does not take long to learn the syntax of any language.  And it is
usually immediate obvious what features are missing from your favorite
languge.  However, it usually takes much longer to understand a language's
philosophy.

--Steven Rumbalski


From RossBoylan at stanfordalumni.org  Sat Oct  9 05:02:54 2004
From: RossBoylan at stanfordalumni.org (Ross Boylan)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 09:02:54 GMT
Subject: POP3 Filter
References: <cj1o5001s78@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.09.04.31.10.107762@stanfordalumni.org>

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:11:43 -0700, crystal1 wrote:

> Not sure if this has been done...
> 
> Has anyone created a python script that listens on the default POP3 port
> for incoming mail, kills certain messages based on a criteria, and
> forwards the output to a non-standard port the POP3 server is listening on?
> 
> Upon recieving requests from a sender, the script would transparently
> forward traffic to the off port unless a violating condition is encountered.
> 
> I'd like to use the listening python script to check for a correct 'to:'
>   address format, attachment size limit, etc.
> 
> Before I waste too much time, do you think this is do-able?

It's doable, and has been done.  For example, I use mailfilter (though
I don't think it's in python).

POP3 does allow you to kill individual messages before downloading
them.  The problem is that, if you want to avoid downloading them, you
can't get too much info.  I think it would be possible to be cleverer
than mailfilter, since (at least some) POP servers can give you the
start of a message without giving you the whole thing.




From http  Fri Oct  8 17:51:11 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 08 Oct 2004 14:51:11 -0700
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x655kyj3k.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

dataangel <k04jg02 at kzoo.edu> writes:
> To save time the first thing my function does is check if
> I'm comparing an empty vs. a non-empty string, because they are to be
> never considered similar.

> Right now I have to write out the check like this:
> 
>     if str1 and str2:
>         if not str1 or not str2:
>             return 0

How about:

    def nonempty(s):
        return (len(s) > 0) 

and then

    if nonempty(str1) != nonempty(str2):
       return 0

Of course there's other ways to write the same thing.  Python 2.3 has
a "bool" function which when called on a string, returns true iff the
string is nonempty.


From sridharinfinity at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 21:33:25 2004
From: sridharinfinity at gmail.com (Sridhar  R)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 18:33:25 -0700
Subject: replacing batch file with python script
In-Reply-To: <417EF91F.929B1D69@shaw.ca>
References: <417EF91F.929B1D69@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <1098840805.325388.93690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Don't use exec family of functions. Use os.system.



From golux at comcast.net  Sat Oct 23 15:25:40 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:25:40 -0400
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <864d37090410231219284f5f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>	<mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>	<QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>	<mailman.5357.1098540970.5135.python-list@python.org>	<jtidnZlHj6049OfcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>	<mailman.5359.1098542166.5135.python-list@python.org>	<2-idnfYPRs9d8-fcRVn-oA@powergate.ca>	<864d37090410230912795a565e@mail.gmail.com>	<loom.20041023T200244-62@post.gmane.org>	<loom.20041023T201501-735@post.gmane.org>
	<864d37090410231219284f5f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <417AB034.3020400@comcast.net>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> As for another commentary regarding the 'microsoftness' of the INI
> file format, well, I don't see that as a problem at all. It should not
> be bad just because it's Microsoft, or any other company format, for
> that sake. ...

Since you appear to be referring to my message (altho not quoting
it), I'll respond.  I didn't say the INI format was "bad", either
because it was MS or otherwise.  What's bad is to *name* a module,
whose capabilities are constrained by that syntax, with a name
that implies a much more general scope.  Somewhat like having
a module called "Gui" that only implements the MS Windows API.

I'm sure I can think of something nice to say about Microsoft ...
just give me a minute ... ;)

Steve


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  8 10:31:55 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:31:55 -0400
Subject: IpAddrCtrl.SetValue() problems
In-Reply-To: <104cc0e1.0410072324.2d9cde63@posting.google.com>
References: <104cc0e1.0410072324.2d9cde63@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <g5qdnTdLb7JBOfvcRVn-hw@powergate.ca>

rob wrote:
> I'm relatively new to python so bear with me. I have run into a
> problem with IPAddrCtrl and can't seem to find any info on google etc.

IPAddrCtrl is part of wxPython.  wxPython has its own mailing list,
where you will generally get more, better, or faster responses
than if you ask here.

> ERROR:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "mydlg.pyo", line 787, in IPAddrDialog
>   File "mydlg.pyo", line 240, in __init__
>   File "wx\lib\masked\ipaddrctrl.pyo", line 148, in SetValue
> NameError: global name 'types' is not defined

"types" is a module in the Python standard library.  Looking
at the source for ipaddrctrl, in \python23\lib\site-packages\
wx\lib\masked\ipaddrctrl.py, you can see that line 148
tries to use items from that module, but the module has
never been imported!

This is a bug in wxPython.  Please report it in the bug tracker at 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=9863&atid=109863 .

-Peter


From dan.gass at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 19:04:34 2004
From: dan.gass at gmail.com (Dan Gass)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 16:04:34 -0700
Subject: String manipulation advice needed.
References: <CE90A4CF2E5E9C4890AE5D9D8A5EFAE3032CCC22@CINMLVEM10.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<mailman.4897.1097694090.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc15ba28.0410131504.57cd47bf@posting.google.com>

> Regular Expressions are your freind.  Take a peek at the re module.

I couldn't agree more.  If you do string manipulations such as these
even on an occasional basis, learning the re module will pay great
dividends over the long haul.


From psXdaXsilva at esotericaX.ptX  Sat Oct  9 21:32:05 2004
From: psXdaXsilva at esotericaX.ptX (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 01:32:05 GMT
Subject: 'psyco' problem
Message-ID: <1097371920.617950@mystique.esoterica.pt>

When running the following program:

#! /bin/env python
# -*- coding: iso-8859-15 -*-

import psyco
psyco.full()

def main():
     n=eval("123+456")
     print n

if __name__ == "__main__":
     main()


I got:
./tp.py:7: warning: eval()/execfile() cannot see the locals in functions
bound by Psyco; consider using eval() in its two- or three-arguments form
   def main():
579

What does this mean? Is there anything wrong?

Thank you.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Oct 27 13:10:40 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:10:40 -0400
Subject: Looking for more Cookbook contributors
References: <0kavn019dk6vf7ini32t3muc9e6r9j7t1n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <clokq9$b8v$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Jonathan Gennick" <jonathan at gennick.com> wrote in message 
news:0kavn019dk6vf7ini32t3muc9e6r9j7t1n at 4ax.com...
> Once again, I find myself looking to contact contributors to the
> Python Cookbook, this time for chapter 2. If you know how to contact
> any of the people listed below, please contact me at
> jgennick at oreilly.com . It would be a big help.
>
> Matteo Dell'Amico
> Sebastien Keim
> Yakov Markovitch
> Amos Newcombe
> John Nielsen
> Chris Perkins
> Nick Perkins
> Noah Spurrier
> Chui Tey
> Robin Thomas
> Jeremy Zucker

I have two suggestions:
1. list the invalid (bouncing) email address you have, if any.
2. try Googling both the web and newsgroups if you have not.

For instance 'Sebastien Keim', first web hit, has s.keim at laposte.net on a 
page generated a month ago.  Is that the invalid address you have or 
something newer maybe?

Terry J. Reedy





From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Tue Oct  5 14:03:46 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 11:03:46 -0700
Subject: print - parameters ?
References: <2sf68hF1jj1mlU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <21064255.0410051003.702e8ce0@posting.google.com>

Helmut Jarausch <jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in message news:<2sf68hF1jj1mlU1 at uni-berlin.de>...
> Hi,
> sorry for this probably very simple question.
> 
> How can I build a parameter list for 'print' ?
> 
> Background:
> I'd like to write a function like
> 
> def myprint(Msg,*Args) :
>    print (Msg,)+Args
> 
> when called as
> 
> myprint(MyMsg,x)
> 
> it should be equivalent to
> 
> print  MyMsg,x
> 
> but, e.g.
> 
> class ABC :
> 	def __str__(self) :
> 		return "ABC-class"
> 
> x=ABC()
> 
> myprint('this is',x)
> 
> gives
> 
> ('this is', <__main__.ABC instance at 0x4084fc8c>)
> 
> instead of
> 
> this is ABC-class
> 
> What am I missing (what sort of thing is the parameter list of print) ?
> Many thanks for a hint,
> 
> 
> Helmut Jarausch
> 
> Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
> RWTH - Aachen University
> D 52056 Aachen, Germany

As Alex pointed out there is a tiny difference 
between __repr__ and __str__ but with an eminent effect
see the following examples:

case 1:
-------
>>> class ABC:
... 	def __str__(self):
... 		return "ABC-class"
... 
>>> x=ABC()
>>> x
<__main__.ABC instance at 0x00DFA640>
>>> '%s' % x
'ABC-class'
>>> '%r' % x
'<__main__.ABC instance at 0x00DFA640>'


case 2:
-------
>>> class ABC:
... 	def __repr__(self):
... 		return "ABC-class"
... 	def __str__(self):
... 		return "ABC-class"
... 
>>> x=ABC()
>>> x
ABC-class
>>> '%r' % x
'ABC-class'
>>> 


So for both cases the following function works:

>>> def myprint(Msg,*Args) :
... 	format=''.join(['%s']*(len(Args)+1))
... 	print format % tuple([Msg]+map(str,Args))
... 

>>> class ABC:
... 	def __str__(self):
... 		return "ABC-class"
... 
>>> x=ABC()
>>> myprint('this is ',x)
this is ABC-class

>>> class ABC:
... 	def __repr__(self):
... 		return "ABC-class"
... 	def __str__(self):
... 		return "ABC-class"
... 
>>> x=ABC()
>>> myprint('this is ',x)
this is ABC-class
>>> 

BTW the need of the statement

... 	print format % tuple([Msg]+map(str,Args))

was new for me too.

Regards
Peter


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 25 11:33:59 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:33:59 +0200
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
> in site-packages) in an application.

I'd say everything that uses a GPL'd module is derived work and must also be
GPL'd. It doesn't matter how you distribute it. If the module is under the
LGPL you could use it in a closed source app but must make available any
changes to the original module.

Peter



From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Oct 27 14:50:45 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:50:45 -0700
Subject: using re.finditer()
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32450BB@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Erik Johnson wrote:
> I am still fairly new to Python and trying to learn to 
> put RE's to good use. I am a little confused about the
> finditer() method...
> ...it doesn't document any restriction about multiline matching,
> but it certainly seems to have one...
> finditer() doesn't accept a flag like re.DOTALL, 
> as re.match() and re.search() do. It seems a shame not
> to be able to put an otherwise smart design to use.

Embed the flag(s) you desire in the regex itself. For example, to
include DOTALL, change r'<td.*?>(.*?)</td>' to r'(?s)<td.*?>(.*?)</td>'


>From the docs:

(?iLmsux)
    (One or more letters from the set "i", "L", "m", "s", "u", "x".) The
group matches the empty string; the letters set the corresponding flags
(re.I, re.L, re.M, re.S, re.U, re.X) for the entire regular expression.
This is useful if you wish to include the flags as part of the regular
expression, instead of passing a flag argument to the compile()
function.

    Note that the (?x) flag changes how the expression is parsed. It
should be used first in the expression string, or after one or more
whitespace characters. If there are non-whitespace characters before the
flag, the results are undefined.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From sean.berry2 at cox.net  Sun Oct 10 17:00:40 2004
From: sean.berry2 at cox.net (news.west.cox.net)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:00:40 -0700
Subject: PIL question - saving JPEG
Message-ID: <mphad.42310$a85.20380@fed1read04>

I have a fairly simple Python program that uses Image and ImageDraw to 
create poll results on the fly.

Because PIL only supports 256 colors for GIF and BMPs are huge (in 
comparison)... I have opted to create JPEGs.

I have installed JPEG-6b and have checked to see that all of the libraries 
are in the correct, expected places.  But, I am still getting the following 
error.

IOError: encoder jpeg not available

Anyone with some PIL experience know how to get this working?  I really 
appreciate any help offered.

If you need more information, just ask.  I will be checking this post for 
the next few days.





From tom at tomaw.org  Sat Oct 30 13:17:30 2004
From: tom at tomaw.org (Tom Wesley)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:17:30 +0100
Subject: Progress bars and cdrecord
Message-ID: <1099156650.16746.2.camel@tom.tomaw.org>

Hi,

I'm looking at switching my cdr backup script over to using python and
pygtk, mainly as an exercise in learning python.  I already have an iso
file created by a cron job every night, and would like to see how easy
it would be to create a simple gtk+ window that shows a progress bar
updated by the cdrecord output.

Has anyone done anything like this before, hopefully with a useful
pointer or two?

Cheers,

-- 
Tom Wesley <tom at tomaw.org>



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 14:41:22 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:41:22 -0700
Subject: failed delivery messages
In-Reply-To: <416d7321$0$21773$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.4869.1097682394.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416d7321$0$21773$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1097692882.12092.258.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 18:25 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-10-13, Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > Okay, I hate to bitch, but is there any possibility of canceling this
> > subscription?  I'm tired of getting a failed delivery message from this
> > guy every time I post to the list.
> 
> You think that's bad, I don't even post (or subscribe) to "the
> list", and _I_ keep getting crap like that.  
> 
> If whoever is gatewaying this group onto a mailing list wants
> to have crap like that sent to the list subscribers that's
> between you and him, but I don't see why non-subscribers should
> be pestered.

I'm not terribly familiar with Mailman, but I know there's a
SpamAssassin module for it.  It seems it could be tweaked to kill
messages with "out of the office", "virus detected", etc strings along
with bounced emails.  That would probably take care of the bulk of it.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From danperl at rogers.com  Sun Oct 31 14:54:00 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:54:00 -0500
Subject: Plugin system
References: <mailman.5738.1099251404.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GdCdnaATKYBE3xjcRVn-tQ@rogers.com>

I didn't know about issubclass.  Thanks.

Dan

<exarkun at divmod.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.5738.1099251404.5135.python-list at python.org...
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:56:10 -0500, "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> I forgot what I'm doing in my own code.  I looked at it again and found 
>> that
>> I'm not using isinstance(), instead I am doing a check for
>> "baseClass.Handler in hndlrCls.__bases__", which is much better, because 
>> it
>> doesn't need the creation of an instance.  Here is the actual code (my
>> handlers are the equivalent of your plugins):
>
>  I wouldn't go as far as to say it is "much better".  Using issubclass() 
> might be, though.
>
>  Jp 




From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Oct  5 10:47:56 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:47:56 +0200
Subject: Problem with string parsing
References: <948b993a.0410050638.3a0340ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.05.14.47.56.457935@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Tue, 05 Oct 2004 07:38:09 -0700 schrieb Mike Howard:

> If I do this:
> string.lstrip('1_mature_dt=10-May-2002','1_mature_dt=')
> I get:
> '0-May-2002'
> Which I did not expect

Hi,

from the doc:
"""If given and not None, chars must be a string; the characters in the
string will be stripped from the beginning of the string this method is
called on"""

the second argument is a *list* of characters. Since "1" is
in the list, if gets stripped from "10-May", too.

You could use
mystring='1_mature_dt=10-May-2002'
mystart="1_mature_dt="
if mystring.startswith(mystart):
    mystring=mystring[len(mystart):]

BTW, you don't need the string-module. You can
use mystring.strip().

HTH,
 Thomas





From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 26 00:02:32 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:02:32 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410251937.5355a8c7@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410251937.5355a8c7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1098763352.22370.189.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 20:37 -0700, kartik wrote:
> Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote in message news:<Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA at giganews.com>...
> > kartik wrote:
> > 
> > > there seems to be a serious problem with allowing numbers to grow in a
> > > nearly unbounded manner, as int/long unification does: it hides bugs.
> > 
> > No it does not.
> > 
> > Just because a runaway program stops sooner by hitting the
> > integer limit it does not mean that this having this limit
> > is a validation method.
> 
> i didn't say it is. all i say is that it catches bugs - & that's
> valuable.

You did say it is.  And then you said it again right there.

> once again, i'm not relying on the integer limit to catch bugs, but
> i'd much rather have bugs exposed by an overflow exception 

Again that is using the integer limit to catch bugs. Repeated self-
contradiction does little to bolster your argument.

> > If you are worried about some numbers growing too much, then
> > check them yourself, you'll get much better results that way.
> 
> maybe, why not use an automated test built-in 2 the language? i get it
> 4 free.

Because, strangely enough, most people want limitations *removed* from
the language, not added to it.  If you are looking for a language with
arbitrary limits then I think Python isn't quite right for you.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Oct 25 15:57:48 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:57:48 -0700
Subject: fastest table lookup
In-Reply-To: <10nqm0t279plbb3@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.5439.1098729682.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10nqm0t279plbb3@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <417d5ff4$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> ... IIRC, list (and tuple) indexing is  O(n) (with n=len(list)), ...
Nope, that may be LISPish knowledge or some other linked list
implementation.
Python's tuple, list, and array (and Numeric array) indexing is O(1).

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From pcooke at philc.net  Sat Oct 23 08:49:50 2004
From: pcooke at philc.net (PhilC)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:49:50 -0400
Subject: Canvas with scrollbars - how to get correct canvas coordinate when
	the scroll bars have moved?
Message-ID: <mpkkn01hge0017phkbhg9mvuoa1nk7jsto@4ax.com>

Hi Folks,

I'm trying to click on a canvas to draw a line. The canvas has scroll
bars. All is well until I move the scrollbars. This naturally because
the relationship between my screen click and canvas event.x, event.y
has changed.

I need something that will add the proportional amount the scroll bar
has moved to the mouse click position. I see the terms canvasx and
canvasy but they appear to be used for converting screen position to
canvas position.

A pointer in the right direction would be appreciated.

Thanks

PhilC


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Mon Oct 25 07:49:13 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:49:13 +0100
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-functi
 on o  verloading.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5417.1098704247.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5417.1098704247.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clip7v$ahc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Doran_Dermot at emc.com wrote:

> However, I wonder if people coming from the Java/C++ world prefer:
> theProblem.title( "The Title" )

Well I can only speak for myself, but I programmed in C++ before Python 
and I certainly don't prefer that. <wink> And I thought the Java 
convention was to have separate setTitle()/getTitle() accessor methods, 
so I'm not sure if anyone would be used to title().

I find the fact that Jython automatically translates:

print obj.attribute
obj.attribute = "foo"

into

print obj.getAttribute()
obj.setAttribute("foo")

to be a godsend.

> Obviously the first version is less typing! However, the second version
> might feel more natural to Java/C++ programmers.  Just an observation!

Well, you could just change the minimum amount of code/idioms to move 
from Java to Python, but then, why not just use Java?

<wink>
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au  Fri Oct 22 02:03:28 2004
From: s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au (Shufen)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 23:03:28 -0700
Subject: Python vs PHP
Message-ID: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>

Hi all, 


Can someone who has use PHP before and know quite well about the
language, tell me what are the stuffs that Python offers and PHP
doesn't. A few examples will be nice. I know about the date format
problem which PHP is having but I need more examples. Thank you for
any help.

Shufen


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct 16 23:43:32 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 03:43:32 GMT
Subject: How to get the size of a file?
In-Reply-To: <u0o3n09r9ak5cs0p8k88bbknf3nkqmaplu@4ax.com>
References: <u0o3n09r9ak5cs0p8k88bbknf3nkqmaplu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ETlcd.6046$gy1.379@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

User wrote:
> Anyone have ideas which os command could be used to get the size of a
> file without actually opening it?

 >>> os.path.getsize("/etc/passwd")
722L
 >>>

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From no-mail-please at nospam.com  Mon Oct 25 14:56:09 2004
From: no-mail-please at nospam.com (Robert Oschler)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:56:09 -0400
Subject: WordNet Developers Forum - Python Section Added
Message-ID: <4bmdnT65_6ss1uDcRVn-qQ@adelphia.com>

Hello all,

I have set up a forum dedicated to WordNet Developers.  I just added a
section for Python developers that are using PyWordNet or other Python based
WordNet interface modules or code.  Note, the forum is more for the
discussion of designing WordNet based applications and programming issues,
rather than support for any particular Python module that interfaces with
WordNet.  That support is usually better found on the module author's web
site or SourceForge project page.  (Although if you are the author of such a
module, please stop by! :)

You can have a look at the forum here:

http://www.wordnetchat.com/phpBB2/

You can see a lively discussion on using WordNet to classify and query
textually annotated audio files.

http://wordnetchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3

If you would like to tell others about the forum so they can join the fun,
here's an HTML snippet to link to the forum:

<a href="http://www.wordnetchat.com/phpBB2/" >WordNet Developers Forum</a>

Thanks

-- 
Robert Oschler
Forum Administrator
http://www.wordnetchat.com/phpBB2/
WordNet Chat - Developer's Forum




From dw at botanicus.net  Thu Oct 21 17:53:10 2004
From: dw at botanicus.net (David Wilson)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:53:10 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <20041021215310.GC81142@thailand.botanicus.net>

On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 03:13:01PM -0700, Michael Chermside wrote:

> Thanks in advance for reviewing this.

Hi Michael!

I'm sorry, I did not take the time to give you my thoughts on your
approach. I will now do so. :)

My principle worry is that the use of attributes is both magical for
beginners and limiting for international users. Consider the case of an
Asian user who wishes to use names of his family members as keys, then
consider the case of a beginner who thinks attribute access is the
natural style of data access in Python, only to find later there is also
__getitem__ and method calls.

Second of all, I believe that the exceptions used are too verbose, and
not usefully so. Two or three of your exceptions are dedicated to type
conversion, something that Python can handle wonderfully on it's own.

What can you really do when your application detects a
"BitFlippedInLowerHalfOfFile" error? In most cases all it will do is
alert the user, so why bother? I'd like to see some use cases for your
exceptions, other than their user-oriented error strings.

Another place where my opinion differs is in your extensive use of
custom types - are they really all needed to achieve your goal? And if
so, don't you think they are a little complex?


Tangent

I originally embarked on the path to 'enPythonment' when I wandered
across the standard library directory by accident one day. The strange,
yet clearly structured syntax got me on to the next stage of reading the
tutorial.

Throughout the tutorial (and in later Python life) I referred to the
standard library to try to learn techniques and to understand various
functions of Python.

One thing I remember from those days was that the standard library
taught me a few bad habits, and also my surprise when I found much
cleaner Python code outside the standard library than I did inside.

My secondary goal for this module is to be as clear, concise, and
correct as I can be. Should someone stumble upon this module during
their learning experience, hopefully they will learn some of the core
Python idealogies rather than the more recent trends toward syntactical
hacks and meta-object-wibble-widget madness (my apologies if that last
bit didn't make sense :).

The module, as it stands, is a very simple OO method for reading
INI-like files. That is what it is designed to be, and that is what I
want any reader of the code to see.

Thanks,


David.

-- 
Gentoo, for when 13 hours of your time is worth more than the 0.1
nanoseconds your CPU saves during use.


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Oct 22 17:02:46 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:02:46 -0500
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41797576.8050209@colorstudy.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
>>Yet as soon as the whole thing is working we realize
>>that we forgot something and that fixing it the
>>"right way" will cause a significant setback. That's
>>reality, trying to avoid these by mandating a
>>certain behavior will only make the framework less
>>usable.
> 
> 
> What setback?  If you've omitted to provide (e.g.) a rendering method
> you realize you need, you add it to the Python code and access it with
> the appropriate nevow:data="whatever" attribute in the template.  No
> problem.

Well, this quickly becomes a matter of aesthetics, intractible to argue 
about... but anyway...

The question then is, what are you trying to achieve with nevow's 
templating?  (Or maybe, what do you think is achieved?)  I don't think 
anyone is achieving the separation of rendering logic from control or 
business logic with templating -- rendering logic is too sophisticated 
(in real applications) to always rely on a template.  In ZPT, some logic 
remains in the template; the amount of logic is flexible, and frequently 
changes back and forth as the application is developed.

Nevow has a very strong limit to how much logic can go in the page -- 
and that limit is very low.  It's not a limit of zero, since it is more 
sophisticated than something like XMLC or the DOM.  But it's not 
terribly high.

Something that ZPT tries to attempt -- and not entirely successfully -- 
is a separation of concerns, so that some people can work primarily in 
ZPT.  I frequently work with people who work entirely in ZPT, sometimes 
stretching it further than it should go; but in those cases they are 
able to move forward with ZPT, and later we can cooperatively refactor 
the code.  If I'm the only one comfortable going into the Python (which 
is usually the case), I'm not a bottleneck.  I'm not sure this is 
possible in Nevow.

Now, there might be a valid compromise where a more declarative template 
language is acceptable in my sort of situation.  Indeed, there is a 
problem where control and rendering logic become mixed, which is part of 
why other people aren't comfortable going into the Python code (though 
there's other reasons, like they aren't familiar with the domain objects 
or other pieces of the system).  In some ways, I'd like to see a 
templating system where I can call the template from my control code 
with a minimal, fixed interface, and that there is a small bit of Python 
code that does the heavier lifting of making that data acceptable for 
the template.  To a degree that's already true.  OTOH, I don't know if 
it's helpful to code alternating row colors for a table in Python, when 
it will be necessarily far away from the table that needs the coloring.

Anyway, I'm very suspicious of any system which limits the programmer 
for their own good.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it  Tue Oct 26 16:42:12 2004
From: NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:42:12 GMT
Subject: Yet Another Command Line Parser
References: <5c4tn0latkspkrrlj8r66qj7h35qbpies0@4ax.com>
	<qExfd.3218$kM.28@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <70dtn0lfkt9qbjcvevcgtn6k6fs8hlghkt@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:33:42 GMT, Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com>
wrote:

>Manlio Perillo wrote:
>> # add spaces to avoids errors like: 1 2, 3 4 -> (12, 34)
>> _options = ' '.join(sys.argv[1:])
>> 
>> def call(func):
>>     """
>>     Call func, passing to it the arguments from the command line
>>     """
>>     exec('func(' + _options + ')')
>
>> The only problem is that error messages are ugly.
>
>And it's a huge security hole.  

I know that executing arbitrary code is a security hole.
However it is intended for 'personal' use.
In this way for my scripts I have only to write a single line of code
for options handling.
Later, for production code, one can use getopt.


>What if I did
>
>
>script.py "x=6)\
>import os
>os.system('ls -l')"
>

A solution is to use eval, but this does not handle keyword arguments.

>Even if not a security hole, it's tricky to handle the
>combined shell and Python escaping rules
>
>   script.py  x="This is a string"
>
>won't work, while
>
>   script.py  'x="This is a string"'
>
>should. Embedding ! and \escaped characters should be
>even more fun.
>

I'm not a shell expert, but the solution isn't simply to use ' or ''?

script.py x='\n'



Thanks and regards   Manlio Perillo


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Mon Oct  4 01:46:20 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 22:46:20 -0700
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4f0a9fdb.0410032146.6ac9055f@posting.google.com>

Hello Alia,

> ... 
> Given this context, I'm mulling over strategies to encourage the
> productivity-enhancing benefits and 'joy' of python scripting to my
> developers. Of course, I'd rather be persuasive than coercive.
> 
> Any ideas?
1. Read and memorize http://www.infoether.com/~rich/pycon2003.pdf
2. Mention "star" programmers that moved to Python:
    - Bruce Eckel: http://64.78.49.204/pub/eckel/LovePython.zip
    - Eric Raymond: http://pythonology.org/success&story=esr
    - ...
3. When asked about time estimation say something like "in C/C++/Java"
   it'll be around two weeks, in Python I can do it in less than one"
4. Be ready for talk about run time performance. Due to modern hardware
   Python is "fast enough" and you can always recode stuff in C/C++ using
   the C API or just use psyco.
   Also Mention that algorithm improvement will give the best performance
   (http://www.dadgum.com/james/performance.html)
5. "Be there first". Make a fast prototype that does most of the *visible*
   work in Python as fast as you can. This way you'll have a strong
   argument to continue with Python.

HTH.
Miki


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 12:01:54 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:01:54 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<mailman.5158.1098169446.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glwzte.1ey9fgjbqis0cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Stephen Waterbury <golux at comcast.net> wrote:
   ...
> For something as complex as CAD/CAM, you will probably want to
> make maximum use of interfaces and adaptors, with minimal and
> very judicious application of classic inheritance hierarchies.
> I am *not* an expert on interfaces and adapters, but several
> of the gurus on this list are.

Heh -- funny enough, I did develop my ideas on protocol adaptation
mostly while working in the CAD area (as Senior Software Consultant to
what used to be Cad.Lab, and is now Think3, for over 10 years).

Our main implementation language, over time, moved from Fortran to C,
then to C++ -- but we did have our own proprietary scripting language,
and a growing amount of applications' functionality was coded in that
higher-level language.  Interfaces (formalized or not) were of course a
given -- in the last few years I was there (and later when I worked as a
consultant for them), as the firm had moved to Windows as the only
platform for its products, mostly COM interfaces among components
(earlier, we had tried Corba, Java, and less formalized ones).  The
Gof4's Design Patterns, and Lakos' Larce Scale C++ Software Design,
helped us crystallize our ideas and practices when they came out (I
devoured both avidly as soon as I could get my hands on them;-), but we
_had_ mostly gone that way already.  But something was missing, and
Robert Martin's excellent essays (the Dependency Inversion Principle
first and foremost) helped BUT didn't quite solve that something...

Protocol Adaptation can, at least potentially.  Try Eby's PyProtocols
for a taste (I may not agree with every one of Eby's design and
architectural choices, but nevertheless it seems to me that PyProtocols
is, today, the best implementation of Protocol Adaptation ideas).
Unfortunately, _that_ is when our choice of programming languages bit --
none of them, including our proprietary scripting language, had
introspection and dynamism enough to get anywhere near.  Java perhaps
might, with much huffing and puffing, but we had put it aside after
extensive trials: too hard to interface our huge existing base of C++,
and rewriting stuff from C++ to Java would have been a nightmare without
templates (generic programming) in Java at the time -- even quite apart
from performance issues, the productivity gains with Java were not worth
the migration costs (for a single-platform software company, at least;
had we still been striving on multiple platforms, I guess it might have
been different:-).

Python (as Eby's work shows, for example) is fully adequate for Protocol
Adaptation (as, no doubt, would other modern VHLLs!)...


Alex


From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Tue Oct 12 10:11:34 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:11:34 -0400
Subject: simple webserver embedded app recommendations
Message-ID: <ckgomm$cr$1@sea.gmane.org>

I'm looking for recommendations for something to base a simple web serving
app on.  I want to make a simple user interface to do control/monitoring of
for an embedded application.  I'm looking for a builtin python-based
webserver, and a minimal learning curve.  Any suggestions?



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct  5 12:16:40 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:16:40 -0500
Subject: Memory grows (without bound); doesn't if code is in function
Message-ID: <20041005161639.GF24535@unpythonic.net>

I wrote this program, and when I ran it the Python process grew to 200+
megs, and I was forced to kill it:
    # Program 1: code at module level
    import itertools
    j = 0
    for i in itertools.count():
        j = j + str(i).count("1")
        if j == i: print i

I changed the program so that the work is done in a function, and the
Python process stays small, <3 megs.
    # Program 2: code at function level
    import itertools
    def main():
        j = 0
        for i in itertools.count():
            j = j + str(i).count("1")
            if j == i: print i
    main()  

I thought I had a pretty good internal model of Python, but apparently
I don't, because I can't explain the difference in behavior between the
two programs.

Can someone enlighten me?

Jeff
PS Python 2.3.2, RedHat 9
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From altis at semi-retired.com  Thu Oct  7 16:25:22 2004
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:25:22 -0700
Subject: Python UK conference in 2005?
Message-ID: <Gqh9d.19$IG.43322@news.uswest.net>

Is anyone handling organization of a Python track at the ACCU Conference in
2005?

The conference is being held Wednesday 20 April to Saturday 23 April 2005,
at the Randolph Hotel, central Oxford.

http://www.accu.org/conference/

It looks like the deadline for submitting info on running a session was
September 26th, so hopefully someone is taking care of a track like they had
in 2004 and already submitted some info. Here's the old conference page.

http://www.accu.org/conference/accu2004/python.html

Any info would be appreciated.

ka
---
altis at semi-retired.com
http://altis.pycs.net/
http://www.pythoncard.org/




From john_taylor_1973 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 10:56:38 2004
From: john_taylor_1973 at yahoo.com (John Taylor)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 07:56:38 -0700
Subject: Using select([sys.stdin]) on windows xp
Message-ID: <fc30bff.0410060656.58b30487@posting.google.com>

I am using some jabber code that uses this:
while(1):
    inputs, outputs, errors = select.select([sys.stdin], [], [],1)

    if sys.stdin in inputs:
        doCmd(con,sys.stdin.readline())
    else:
        con.process(1)

However, I get this error:
select.error: (10038, 'An operation was attempted on something that is
not a socket')

According the the Python docs:
On Windows, the underlying select() function is provided by the
WinSock library, and does not handle file desciptors that don't
originate from WinSock.

So I was wondering how I can change the code above to run on windows
xp.  Any help would greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
-John


From chrisNOSPAM at spam.com  Fri Oct  1 05:30:37 2004
From: chrisNOSPAM at spam.com (Chris)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:30:37 +0200
Subject: No more command history with cursor keys
References: <1096619099.20537@ftpgate>
	<1gkz5o9.1yipm4e1bewl8jN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1096623037.823368@ftpgate>

Indeed, readline.so exists in my Python2.2 install (part of SuSE 8.2) but
not in the Python 2.3.4 install that I built. I tried to copy the file but
there's a mismatch.
But I don't understand what went wrong: configure / make / make install all
finished successfully.
How can I get that readline.so file?

Chris

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:
1gkz5o9.1yipm4e1bewl8jN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> Chris <chrisNOSPAM at spam.com> wrote:
>
> > Since I've installed (from sources) Python 2.3.4 on SuSE 8.2 the command
> > history is not working anymore. When I press the cursor keys I get ^[[A
or
> > ^[[B ....
> > I also tried to install IPython but the same problem is there.
> >
> > What's wrong?
>
> You appear to be missing some parts of the 'readline' library --
> probably the 'devel' half of it; or, if you have it installed, it's
> somewhere the build process for Python and IPython can't find.
>
>
> Alex




From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct  2 23:06:48 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 23:06:48 -0400
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
In-Reply-To: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c5K7d.288465$4o.218764@fed1read01>

Alia Khouri wrote:

> Recently, I've been fortunately placed in a position to possibly
> mandate the use of python for certain tasks in my new organization.
> 
> Now, I've inherited an environment which is windows-centric, lacking
> in knowledge about scripting, and somewhat sub-standard in terms of
> productivity. I've also inherited a set of pre-existing systems which
> I have to deal with and manage:
> 
> - Peoplesoft ERP
> - Java webframework based on webwork/hibernate/jboss/mysql
> - Lotus Notes/Domino
> 
> Given this context, I'm mulling over strategies to encourage the
> productivity-enhancing benefits and 'joy' of python scripting to my
> developers. Of course, I'd rather be persuasive than coercive.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
Pay me to come and give them a class and they'll be converts for life!

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 10:34:52 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:34:52 -0300
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <20041019012337.GA13634@trit.org>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
	<20041019012337.GA13634@trit.org>
Message-ID: <864d370904101907342fb4bfab@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:23:37 +0000, Dima Dorfman
<d+pylist at nospamplease.trit.org> wrote:
> Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If the issue is strictly one of whether it's worth somehow making
> >     for x in y: yield x
> > terser (by a new kw, combination of kw, and/or punctuation) I guess we
> > can discuss that (I just don't see the gain to offset the price of
> > introducing new syntax and one more language thing to learn for
> > Pythonistas and newcomers to Python).
> 
> I find myself writing a lot of recursive generators, and a while ago I
> implemented this:
> 
>   yield *other
> 
> to mean:
> 
>   for x in other:
>     yield x

Just a clarification. You _implemented_ it as a patch to Python, or
using some clever trick that I'm not aware of? Or did you just write a
specification?


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From amforgeot.NOSPAM at neuf.fr  Sat Oct 16 07:43:43 2004
From: amforgeot.NOSPAM at neuf.fr (Amaury Forgeot d'Arc)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:43:43 +0200
Subject: pythondoc or epydoc?
In-Reply-To: <684bd072.0410142234.35ee0c85@posting.google.com>
References: <cjr2n0$17v1@qum07.mms-dresden.de>
	<mailman.4564.1097228469.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<684bd072.0410142234.35ee0c85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckr1h7$8uj$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>

Sean wrote:
> I would like to use epydoc to generate documents, but got the following error.
 > ...
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\epydoc\uid.py", line 585, in module
>     if (self._module is not None and
>   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\wx\misc.py", line 3581, in __eq__
>     return _misc.DateTime___eq__(*args)
> TypeError: Expected a pointer
 >
 > The version of wxpython is 2.5.
 > This script can be executed normally.

There is a bug in epydoc, corrected in CVS but not yet released:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/epydoc/epydoc/src/epydoc/uid.py?rev=1.52&view=log

The commit description says:
 > - Fixed bug in ObjectUID.module() (Using "x in lst" can fail if
 >   x.__eq__ raises an exception; use explicit "is" testing instead)

wxPython objects are wrapped C++ classes, and they don't support 
comparison with arbitrary objects.

Try to apply the same diffs to your version of epydoc:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/epydoc/epydoc/src/epydoc/uid.py?r1=1.51&r2=1.52
and this should correct the problem.

Amaury


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Oct 28 20:26:41 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 20:26:41 -0400
Subject: Directly calling threaded class instance methods and attributes
References: <4d79c4d9.0410280228.53f9a328@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ufz3yjrni.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

lights at cix.co.uk (Matthew Bell) writes:

>(...)
> My question is simply, can anyone see any issues with calling methods
> and/or attributes of a threaded class instance like this?  It looks ok
> to me but, as the docs never seem to mention using threads like this,
> I'm wondering if I've missed something important.  If it helps, I 
> know the basic considerations of threading, such as locking, exception
> handling and so on; I only really need advice on whether there could
> be issues with directly calling class instance attributes of a 
> running thread.

Others have focused more on the locking issues if the methods you use
access data that the separate thread is also accessing, so I'll try to
hit the general question of just sharing the instance itself.

Clearly directly accessing a non-callable attribute has the potential
requirement for locking and/or race conditions.  But for callables,
and if I understand what you might be getting at, the answer is
definitely yes.  There's absolutely no problem calling methods on a
thread object from separate threads, and even have methods used from
multiple threads simultaneously.  The execution flow itself is fine,
but as you note, you have to handle shared data access issues
yourself, to the extent that it applies.

I do think this could simplify your thread communication in some cases
because you can export a more typical "object" interface from your
thread object (at least in the forward direction) rather than having
the user of the thread have to handle queue management.

For example, it's very common for me to have thread objects structured
like (to extend your example):

    class SimpleThread(threading.Thread):
        def __init__(self):
            threading.Thread.__init__(self)
            # I often handle the communication queue to the background
            # thread internally, so callers need not be aware of it.
            self.queue = Queue.Queue()
            # Often my thread objects are self starting (so a user is just
            # instantiating the object and not knowing a thread is involved)
            self.start()

        #
        # Typically several methods used by the background thread during
        # processing.
        #
        def _spam(self):
            pass
        def _eggs(self):
            pass
        def _ham(self):
            pass
        
        #
        # The main thread itself - processes queue requests
        #
        def run(self):
            while 1:
                operation = self.queue.get()
                if operation is None:
                    return

                # Perform operation


        #
        # "Public" (not background thread) operations
        #
        def shutdown(self):
            self.queue.put(None)

        def someoperation(self, args):
            self.queue.put(("dosomething", args))


So to the outside party, they are just creating an instance of my
object, and using methods on it.  The methods happen to then use a queue
internally to get to the processing portion of the object which is in
a background thread, but you don't need to expose that to the caller.

Where this falls down a little is in the result of the processing.
Generally you need to provide for a query mechanism on your object
(which itself might be using an internal queue, or you could just
permit the caller to access an attribute which is the queue), or a
callback system, in which case the caller should clearly be made aware
that the callback will be executing in a separate thread.

Or, if you're using some async, event-driven approach even the thread
is probably completely hideable.  For example, with Twisted, your public
thread instance methods can just appear as deferrable methods, using
standard deferreds as return values.  Then when the result is ready in the
background thread, you have twisted fire the deferred in the main reactor
loop.

-- David


From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Fri Oct 29 10:29:19 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:29:19 +0200
Subject: deleting elements from a list in a for loop
In-Reply-To: <Risgd.3548$7R7.154746@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <Risgd.3548$7R7.154746@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <41825395$0$3679$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Hi !

Indeed, you cannot erase elements in a list you're iterating on !
a possibility could be :

to_delete = []
for i in xrange(len(el)):
   if condition:
     to_delete.insert(0, i)
for i in to_delete:
   del el[i]

That should work fine ...

flupke a ?crit :
> Hi,
> 
> i'm having trouble with deleting elements from a list in a for loop
> 
> ============== test program ==============
> el = [ "one", "two", "three", "four" ]
> print "**** Start ****"
> print "List = %s " % el
> index = 0
> for line in el:
>     print "    el = %s " % line
>     if ( index == 1 ):
>         print "    deleting %s " % line
>         del el[index]
>     else:
>         index += 1
> print "**** After delete ****"
> print "List = %s " % el
> 
> print "**** After adding two ****"
> el.append("two")
> print "List = %s " % el
> ============== test program ==============
> 
> This is the output that i get
> **** Start ****
> List = ['one', 'two', 'three', 'four']
>     el = one
>     el = two
>     deleting two
>     el = four
>     deleting four
> **** After delete ****
> List = ['one', 'four']
> **** After adding two ****
> List = ['one', 'four', 'two']
> 
> After deleting it doesn't go to element "three". Why is that?
> How can i safely delete from a list?
> The reason is that i'm currently making an application to manage my 
> links. I write a couple of links to the screen in a listbox (wxPython) 
> and thus i delete those links that appear on screen from the list 
> because people will be able to edit them.
> Then when they move to another link section, i write the content of the 
> listbox back to the list. But as i've illustrated in the small example 
> my coding is flawed.
> 
> Thanks,
> Benedict


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct  7 14:16:04 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:16:04 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <52m9m0d58mkslq7t3sg92aihchlpat714h@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aJt8d.3299$M05.285@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6qcq.kcu4qi1qojaksN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<_sB8d.3545$M05.1351@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl7k7p.1a37gv1o1klclN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<JGW8d.7631$M05.6903@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl97ps.endfhf1dfa6l0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<52m9m0d58mkslq7t3sg92aihchlpat714h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <EJf9d.5226$UP1.205@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Andrea Griffini:
> Unfortunately it's something you just can't refuse to
> do in C++ because const correctness is tied to other
> parts of the language and was used to try to patch
> problems in other philosophically unrelated areas (I'm
> talking about temporaries and implicit conversions).

I recall doing things like this

    StringClass s = ....;

    /* StringClass only supports (const char *) */
    /* fctn only supports (char *) but doesn't change the string */
    /* Force it to work */
    fctn( (char *) (const char *) s );

Perhaps not a refusal, but a disdain.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct  5 07:47:42 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 07:47:42 -0400
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted Data
 Chunk Efficiently
In-Reply-To: <ba1e306f.0410050212.3b592313@posting.google.com>
References: <ba1e306f.0410050212.3b592313@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <N6mdnQbpeNtDFP_cRVn-jw@powergate.ca>

Jane Austine wrote:
> I have student_names and their scores, which are between 0..100.
> 
> I want to retrieve in the sorted order in terms of score, Nth
> student's name to N+10th student's name along with their scores.
> (suppose a web page showing top 10 students and there are "next page"
> link and if you follow the link there shows next top 10 students with
> "prev" and "next" page links.)
> 
> The list is dynamically resized -- elements are added or deleted. The
> list could go fairly long enough that pulling all the data on memory
> at once is not a good choice.

"Fairly long enough"?  I imagine you'd have to have thousands of
students before just doing the simplest thing (ignore performance
and read the whole list) would become a noticable problem.

It's rare in an environment like the web, with all the user and
network delays that are present, that optimizing at the level
you are trying to do is worth the effort.

> What algorithm and data/file structure are most efficient? (the
> environment is "cgi" based web environment)

And unless mod_python is involved, CGI adds yet another significant
delay, masking any slight difference in performance from the optimal
approach and the simplistic one.

> Simplest approach would be using btree from bsddb. 

Nope, simplest would be just use a list and ignore the theoretical
but unnoticable performance issues.  Remember, the actual memory
allocation and manipulations of the list elements happens in C code,
not in Python, so it is very fast.

> What can I do instead? What data structure allows you to access
> nth..n+10th data from the sorted list in a constant time?

If you've got more than 1000 students, it _might_ be worth
analyzing this further. :-)

-Peter


From janeaustine50 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  5 06:12:24 2004
From: janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 03:12:24 -0700
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted Data Chunk
	Efficiently
Message-ID: <ba1e306f.0410050212.3b592313@posting.google.com>

Hello.

I have student_names and their scores, which are between 0..100.

I want to retrieve in the sorted order in terms of score, Nth
student's name to N+10th student's name along with their scores.
(suppose a web page showing top 10 students and there are "next page"
link and if you follow the link there shows next top 10 students with
"prev" and "next" page links.)

The list is dynamically resized -- elements are added or deleted. The
list could go fairly long enough that pulling all the data on memory
at once is not a good choice.

What algorithm and data/file structure are most efficient? (the
environment is "cgi" based web environment)

Simplest approach would be using btree from bsddb. But there are only
"first"/"last" and "next"/"prev" moves. If I have to retrieve 20..29th
students, I have got to "first" and then "next" 19 times before I
finally get to 20th student, which is a waste of time(and memory).
Maybe I could keep the cursor position among sessions if I were using
a standalone server. However, it is in CGI environment.

What can I do instead? What data structure allows you to access
nth..n+10th data from the sorted list in a constant time?

Jane


From egbert.list at hccnet.nl  Fri Oct  8 05:25:54 2004
From: egbert.list at hccnet.nl (Egbert Bouwman)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:25:54 +0200
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
In-Reply-To: <4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <20041008092554.GA1151@mirk.lan>

A file is too large to fit into memory.
The first line must receive a special treatment, because 
it contains  information about how to handle the rest of the file.

Of course it is not difficult to test if you are reading the first line
or another one, but it hurts my feelings to do a test which by definition
succeeds at the first record, and never afterwards.
Any suggestions ?
egbert
-- 
Egbert Bouwman - Keizersgracht 197 II - 1016 DS  Amsterdam - 020 6257991
========================================================================


From michael.mata at gaigen.net  Fri Oct 22 17:38:15 2004
From: michael.mata at gaigen.net (michael.mata at gaigen.net)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 14:38:15 -0700
Subject: Need help getting started with Twisted Matrix.
In-Reply-To: <c718a6cf.0410221328.58ab0efb@posting.google.com>
References: <c718a6cf.0410221328.58ab0efb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1098481095.625069.220950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
> need some help getting started, it is just a "little" confusing on
> where to actually start. I want to write a turn based board game
using
> Twisted as the networking layer.
>
> I just need a kind of "kick start" to how I need to handle
> authentication, joining rooms, ect.
>
> Any help, even a pointer to a better place like another newsgroup, or
> a mailing list or forum that would be helpful, I have not had alot of
> luck finding any place that is very responsive.

Have you gone through the Tutorial: Twisted From Scratch tutorial?  It
can be found in the manual.  I found it pretty helpful for me in
understanding some basic concepts of the TwistedMatrix framework.



From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 16:57:18 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:57:18 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <278de0e.0410051203.3ac28eae@posting.google.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Ovp8d.3155$M05.74@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4311.1096951351.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zJp8d.3165$M05.1860@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<278de0e.0410051203.3ac28eae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <OUD8d.3656$M05.2085@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Me:
>>Indeed.  I did some checking and your email address had no
>>hits in Google so I assumed you were a new person.  Even
>>your domain is almost unknown to Google Groups except for
>>a few recent posts from one other 'nym to comp.lang.python...

Neuruss wrote:
> For God's sake... Cut the boy some slack!

I was checking to see if my assumption, that the OP was
posting this as a homework assignment, had some justifiable
basis.  Had the search taken me to a student account with
a link to "I'm in CS 1234 this fall" which had this list
of questions as an assignment then I definitely would have
responded differently.

It did not, so I instead responded explaining the reasons
for my wariness and what might be done to remedy that.

The time needed to do the check was, what, 30 seconds?

> I don't understand this kind of reactions. If some reader gets
> "offended" by someone's post, why not just ignore him and go on with
> our lives?

I've spent time helping with the docs, the FAQ,
contributing code, etc.  Minor compared to some, but
still non-trivial effort.  To be asked these
questions without making even the most basic efforts
to scan the available information is saying that our
work is in vain.

With no feedback there is no hope for correction.
Ostracism is a form of feedback, but not very strong.

> What's the strange pleasure of dedicating typing time and energy in
> punishing people just for being a little out of place?

You presume too much.  Then again there are some fields
of thought which say all things are done for pleasure
and that ideas like charity and philanthropy are figments
where the underlying reason is to make the givers feel better.

And I had an hour to kill waiting for a phone call.
Time I frequently spend on providing answers and
commentary to c.l.py.

> A short phrase of warning should be enough, don't you think?

I thought that's what I did.  ... checking ... No, not
short.  I also answered several of the OP's questions
in such a way to explain why short answers weren't possible,
gave pointers to places that would answer his questions,
and explained the reasoning behind why I ended with a
"short phrase of warning".

Should I have just answered using my final paragraph

 >> Please read the basic Python documentation before
 >> asking these questions.

?  That would to me have been no better than saying "RTM".

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Oct 25 21:26:54 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:26:54 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <clk89q$5da$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>
	<1098746958.22370.116.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<mailman.5466.1098748601.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clk5qk$4lt$1@news1.ucsd.edu>  <clk89q$5da$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <1098754015.22370.148.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 18:12 -0700, Robert Kern wrote:

> Okay, a not-so-retarded reply this time:
> 
>  From COPYING in the Linux kernel distribution:
> 
> """
>     NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel
>   services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use
>   of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work".
>   Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software
>   Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the Linux
>   kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it.
> """

Good enough.  It doesn't address licensing issues with so-called system
libraries (i.e. libc, et al [and yes, I know many of them are LGPL -
that isn't really the point]), but it at least provides exception for
the kernel.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 12 12:22:36 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:22:36 -0700
Subject: passing a socket to a spawned process.
In-Reply-To: <5d00592f.0410110923.2bb2b1ea@posting.google.com>
References: <5d00592f.0410110923.2bb2b1ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041012083841.08DA.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Is it possible?  In the parent process, I have a socket that binds,
> listens and then accepts new connections (which creates new sockets in
> the process).  I want to be able to pass some of these new sockets to
> a spawned process.  Is it possible, and if so how?
> 
> Any help is much appreciated!!

As someone has already mentioned, if you have the socket before the fork,
you will have the socket after the fork.


I had been working on a general file descriptor passing mechanism for a
few weeks in May, until I gave up.

From what I was able to work out, it is not possible in Windows.
SunOS 5.8 has no issues, and will work almost out of the box (pure
Python) with the right incantation (I have it somewhere if you really
want it).
A few constants are missing from the Linux fcntl.py, so this is not
really possible unless you are willing to patch your kernel and Python.

Googling for the terms: passing file descriptors Python
will get you the list of articles/research that I looked at.

One of those links has source code for the C struct usable with a BSD
for making this happen.  Generally though, you can only pass file
descriptors (sockets) across a UNIX domain socket, or sometimes a pipe
(make it before you fork).


Good luck.
 - Josiah



From pm_mon at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 08:21:07 2004
From: pm_mon at yahoo.com (Paul Morrow)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:21:07 -0400
Subject: Looking for a Python/Java developer in Atlanta
Message-ID: <clqo7i$mqr$1@sea.gmane.org>

We're looking for a developer who is strong in both Python and Java 
(JSP) to develop web, client, and backend applications.  We particularly 
need someone with good experience building database-backed (we use 
Oracle here), dynamic web apps.

** Due to the high degree of interaction required, candidates need to be 
physically in Atlanta.  Telecommuting doesn't work for this position. **

See our posting at http://www.python.org/Jobs.html (search the page for 
the word "loyaltyworks").

Note: We're trying to have our HR department manage this job search, so 
please don't send me your details.  Instead

     * Contact: Julie Griffin, Director of Human Resources
     * E-mail contact: julie.griffin at loyaltyworks.com
     * Phone: 678-539-5027

Thanks.

Paul



From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 30 11:32:37 2004
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 08:32:37 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>	<698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5708.1099128187.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0410300732.657035e7@posting.google.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.5708.1099128187.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 08:09 -0700, Jeremy Fincher wrote:
> 
> > The problem with int/long unification is that there is no simple
> > pure-Python alternative for those of us who need a bounded integer
> > type.  If our code depended on that raised OverflowError in order to
> > ensure that our computations were bounded, we're left high and dry
> > with ints and longs unified.  We must either drop down to C and write
> > a bounded integer type, or we're stuck with code that no longer works.
> 
> Color me ignorant (I still maintain that numbers were a bad idea to
> start with), but can you give an example of something that would
> *require* this?

Accepting integer equations from untrusted users and evaluating them. 
That's my exact use case, in fact.

> It seems to me that whether an OverflowError occurs is
> only one way of determining whether a computation is bounded,

It's not really a way of *determining* whether a computation is
bounded, but *guaranteeing* that it is bounded.  What I eventually did
was simply convert all numbers to floats, and do my calculations with
those; but this results in some ugliness, for instance, when a user
asks for the value of "10**24".

> These
> can be handled other ways (e.g. running the computation in a separate
> process and killing it if it exceeds certain time/memory constraints).

They're also significantly more complex and significantly less
portable.

> I suppose my position is this: if I have a computer that can perform a
> calculation in a reasonable time without exhausting the resources of the
> machine then I would think that Python shouldn't try to stop me from
> doing it, at least not based on some arbitrary number of bits.

That's exactly it.  With bounded integers, I know for sure that my
program can perform a calculation in a reasonable time without
exhausting the resources of the machine.  Without them, I have to go
to great lengths to receive that assurance.

Jeremy


From stuff2 at obNOSPAMPLEASEcore.com  Tue Oct 26 11:10:28 2004
From: stuff2 at obNOSPAMPLEASEcore.com (Winston WOLFF)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:10:28 -0400
Subject: parameters to logging.debug()
Message-ID: <200410261110284756%stuff2@obNOSPAMPLEASEcorecom>

What do people think about changing the parameters to logging.debug() 
to be more like the parameters to print?  As you know, you can pass 
multiple parameters to print, and they are all printed out with a space 
between each.  I find this more useful than the current method which 
just takes the first parameter and submits it to the % operator with 
the other parameters.  From a coding point of view, I find it to better 
to type this because all the strings are next to their labels:

	log.debug("index=",i, "dict=", dict, "x=", x, "y=", y, "z=", z)

compared to this because the labels are all at the beginning, and you 
have to spend some time keeping things in the right order:

	log.debug( "index=%i  dict=%s  x=%d y=%d z=%d", i, dict, x, y, z)

Also, for those who like the second format better, you can always type:
	log.debug( "index=%i  dict=%s  x=%d y=%d z=%d" % ( i, dict, x, y, z) )

I know it might be a little late to make such a drastic change to the 
logging API, but I really think it would be worthwhile.  Here are my 
reasons summarized again:

Why should we change the log.debug/info/warn/error() API:
	- It will match the print statement, which is what many people use already
	- It keeps the labels next to the variables you are printing.  This 
makes it easier to change which variables you are printing, as one does 
when debugging.
	- If you like the current format, it is very easily done using the % 
operator with no loss of clarity.
	- A list of parmeters that are just printed out after converting with 
repr() is less error prone than what we have now.  If you mess up the 
sequence of %i, %s, etc, then you might pass a string to your %i 
parameter but not notice until your debug message is actually called.

-Winston



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 19:19:53 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:19:53 -0600
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
References: <4e4a11f8.0409232355.6ba0468d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.3834.1096015522.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
	<Jdc7d.280819$4o.95007@fed1read01>
	<ijbrl0tfkraor6fe316aettvc0sqas3q8a@4ax.com>
	<du7y8ipv21m.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <cjslqp$h03$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Ville Vainio wrote:

>     Andrea> But tell me that
> 
>     Andrea> def foo(x,my_personal_cache_so_please_dont_pass_this_parm=[]):
>     Andrea> ...
> 
>     Andrea> is beautiful and I can sign a paper where is stated that
>     Andrea> you're either kidding or a dork.
> 
> It's not beautiful, but it works, and is already in the language. Come
> on, you are an old C++ hand, you are used to dealing with the horrors
> of chtulhuan proportions daily. I'm a C++ programmer as well, and
> nothing in Python compares to the dirt I deal with every day. Private
> cache in param list is a minor issue.

Sorry to pitch in late, and forgive me if this has already been discussed and
thrown out for some other reason, I didn't follow the whole thread.  Why not
use function attributes for the cache?

In [3]: def foo(x):
   ...:     if x in foo.cache:
   ...:         print 'x=',x,'in cache!'
   ...:     else:
   ...:         print 'new calculation for x:',x
   ...:         foo.cache[x] = 1
   ...:

In [4]: foo.cache={}

In [5]: foo(1)
new calculation for x: 1

In [6]: foo(1)
x= 1 in cache!

In [7]: foo(2)
new calculation for x: 2

In [8]: foo(2)
x= 2 in cache!

I tend to prefer this to the cache-in-args-list approach, but maybe there was a
good reason in the thread (which I didn't read).  You can do this with a
full-blown class which implements __call__, which I do when the function state
is really complex.  But for simple cases where I just need a few things to
enhance a function's behavior, I simply slap the attributes I need on top of
it and I'm on my way.  Simple, clean and pythonic, IMHO.

Cheers,

f


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 20 16:42:25 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 13:42:25 -0700
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
	exception
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
	<cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410201242.9bca574@posting.google.com>

> I thought a logging API was usually trying to do costly things only when 
> it knows it has to. You /could/ do that, but since it doesn't come for 
> free - why not first do the check if you will actually log this message?

Right.
 
> I'd simply say that constructing a log message from arguments is such a 
> common thing that it is worth providing efficient API support for it. And 
> I think it's truely counter-pythonic to prevent the usage of dictionaries 
> at this point.

Patch checked into CVS. Now:

>>> logging.warn('%(string)s and the %(number)d dwarves', {'string':
'Snow White', 'number':7})

gives

WARNING:root:Snow White and the 7 dwarves

Regards,


Vinay


From jerf at jerf.org  Fri Oct 22 00:52:10 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 04:52:10 GMT
Subject: Method Underscores? (and a 'solution')
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298@jerf.org>
	<10ngldt145cmu53@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.22.00.51.17.577472@jerf.org>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:35:06 -0500, John Roth wrote:

> 
> "Jeremy Bowers" <jerf at jerf.org> wrote in message 
> news:pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298 at jerf.org...
>>
>> But what mystical language exists that uses less punctuation than Python?
>> I've tried to come up with it, and even the obscure ones I can come up
>> with use more.
> 
> Forth. Postscript.

I guess I should have specified "general purpose". Yeah, of course you can
do anything in Forth, Postscript, or Applescript, but they aren't much
competition for Python. 

(By which I mean they serve vastly differing uses; I've never used Forth
directly but I have done HP-48 programming and I liked it and I hear
there's a lot of similarities. Great calculator language. Of the ones
listed Forth is the closest to being a plausible app language, but it
would need more libraries.)




From troy.melhase at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 17:04:39 2004
From: troy.melhase at gmail.com (Troy Melhase)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:04:39 -0800
Subject: Creating new classes on the fly
In-Reply-To: <864d3709041005135353c0214e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <864d3709041005135353c0214e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d50f6c8a041005140410a52640@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:53:35 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> I need to create new classes on the fly with different default
> parameters, stored as class attributes. Of course, there's a reason
> behind it: I need new classes, because I need to be able to build
> multiple instances of them later. And I need new defaults, because the
> values can't be provided at instantiation time (because of scoping &
> mutability issues).

I've had the same need recently, and I've found that coding the class
as part of a closure is readable (untested code):

def my_custom_class():
    some_param = lookup_param() # now part of the lexical scope, can be mutable

    class MyCustomClass:
        default_param = some_param

    return MyCustomClass


CustomizedClass1 = my_custom_class()
CustomizedClass2 = my_custom_class()

instances_of_one = [CustomizedClass1(), CustomizedClass1(), ]
instances_of_two = [CustomizedClass2(), CustomizedClass2(), ]

Good luck,
troy


From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct 16 18:40:27 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:40:27 -0700
Subject: get the name of lambda
References: <ckr59p$1epo$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <ah83n0lpb1683h1jn9rbp9lmcimoktbhh1@4ax.com>

George Yoshida <ml at dynkin.com> wrote:

>Just out of curiosity, is there any way to get the name of a
>lambda expression? Lambdas are anonymous functions, so it's a
>stupid idea to get the name of it. But if it's possible, how
>could I?
>
>Let's take a simple example:
>  foo = lambda:None
>
>foo.__name__(or foo.func_name) returns '<lambda>'.
>I'm looking for a way to return 'foo', instead of '<lambda>'.

Can't be done.  "foo" is just a name of a reference to something.  The
lambda function has no idea that there happens to be a name called "foo"
that is bound to it.  Consider this:

  foo = boo = doo = lambda:None

  def printMyName(zippy):
      print zippy.__name__

  printMyName( foo )
  printMyName( boo )
  printMyName( doo )

printMyName will get called 3 times with the exact same object.  Inside
printMyName, would you expect the first call to print "foo"?  Why not
"zippy"?
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From peter at monicol.co.uk  Fri Oct 15 05:20:32 2004
From: peter at monicol.co.uk (Peter Mott)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:20:32 +0100
Subject: The IDE question
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>
Message-ID: <416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>

Eric3 is an oddity - it is free on Linux but commercial on Windows. It seems 
you need to buy a licence for Qt which in the UK is ?250 + VAT. This is 
substantially more than Komodo or WingIDE.

Peter

"GMTaglia" <liquid at kuht.it> wrote in message 
news:TF5ad.15166$b5.730220 at news3.tin.it...
> dataangel wrote:
>
>> DrPython seems to be just what I'm looking for -- after a few bugs are
>> fixed and the open file window is improved. I can't open files on
>> computers on my local network because there's no mechanism to do that, I
>> can't type in my own path (doesn't respond to me typing it in and
>> hitting enter), and shortcuts to folders don't show up. I also managed
>> to find a bug that consistenly makes my system hang :P
>>
>> I'm e-mailing them the bugs, but overall the best IDE I've tried so far 
>> :D
>
> Have a better look to eric3 http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html
>
> tabs
> http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/images/eric3-screen-1.png
>
> debugger
> http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/images/eric3-screen-2.png
>
> and much more
> http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3-screenshots.html
>
> cheers
> GMTaglia 




From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Oct 26 03:57:20 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:57:20 +0200
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <Yhgfd.15018$lp6.822@okepread01>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5432.1098719901.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d2543$0$45533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj9du$l12$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<Yhgfd.15018$lp6.822@okepread01>
Message-ID: <1kc152-al1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> But if someone puts 
> a module under the GPL then any integrated use of that module is a 
> dervied work and must, if redistributed, be put out under the GPL.

Are you really sure? I had a look at the installation directory of my old 
Netscape Communicator 4.8 for Linux. There's an interesting sub-directory in 
it containing the GPLed source of movemail.

As it looks to me movemail.c is distributed as source since it's GPLed. 
Netscape Communicator itself which IMHO uses movemail but was at that time 
still distributed as proprietary closed source app. Well, I could be wrong 
since movemail is a separately linked executable and this might not count as 
integrated use.

Ciao, Michael.


From dolzenko at rsu.ru  Tue Oct  5 11:01:03 2004
From: dolzenko at rsu.ru (Eugeni Doljenko)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:01:03 +0400
Subject: [OT] New to Python: Features
References: <40E605146701DE428FAF21286A97D3091744C6@wphexa02.corp.lh.int>
	<4162B7FD.9080702@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <02c701c4aaec$224382b0$b0fcd0c3@cooler>

>>You're kidding, right. Right ? Without brackets ? That's... that's just
>>not possible is it ?
> In certain languages it is.  I think Lua lets you do it but more certainly 
> I know Ruby does.
I'd love language that will let me call functions with square brackets.
square brackets are so sweet.

seriously, Ruby is syntactical madness. 




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Oct 24 21:09:40 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:09:40 -0400
Subject: Mindboggling Scope Issue
References: <200410241346.12230.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu><clha6h$s7d$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<200410241616.14515.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <clhjod$de1$1@sea.gmane.org>


"James Stroud" <jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu> wrote in message 
news:200410241616.14515.jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu...
>  File "./passerby", line 1378, in ok
>    print result
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'result' referenced before assignment

      def ok():
        # different : GETS ERROR!
        print result
        pw = passEntry.get()
        if len(pw):
          passWindow.result = pw
        passWindow.destroy()
---------------------

Based on the error traceback, I have to wonder: did the code you actually 
ran to get the error have 'result = pw' instead of 'passWindow = pw'?  The 
above looks like an intermediate version.  Otherwise, result is set to None 
two lines after this definition and never changed, which would not make 
much sense, nor would the error message make sense to me.

Terry J. Reedy





From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct 29 11:58:41 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 15:58:41 GMT
Subject: Real-time graphs
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
	<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>
	<4182580c$0$78438$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<abqdnViCjpQEwR_cRVn-rw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <418268b1$0$33092$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-29, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>>>Need to display data read from telemetry systme. Data might change in
>>>order of 1000/s. Not every sample will be displayed, but still need
>>>something close to 100sps
>> 
>> 
>> If you want to do 100 frames per second, you're going to have
>> to use gaming/animation techniques: Xv extensions,
>> double-buffering of frames, etc.
>
> Not to mention using a special monitor with a refresh rate
> well above the usual. ;-)

Yup, trying to do multiple frames/update will resulting tearing
of the displays.  To get the best looking results he probably
wants to max out his frame rate at the display update rate, and
synchronize buffer flips with vertical blanking period.

> I think he meant "samples per second",

I was assuming he wanted to display a new frame for each
sample.  If there are 5000 samples per frame, then life just
got a whole lot easier for him.

> though, but didn't give enough info for us to know his minimum
> refresh rate.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I wish I was on a
                                  at               Cincinnati street corner
                               visi.com            holding a clean dog!


From jerf at jerf.org  Wed Oct 20 02:18:45 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:18:45 GMT
Subject: Integrate Tile into Tkinter
References: <3Gkdd.2134$Ag.1192@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.20.02.18.05.252288@jerf.org>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:09:50 -0400, Kevin Walzer wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Are there any plans to integrate the Tile extension from Tk into
> Tkinter? This theming extension allows native look and feel under
> Windows XP and OS X, in particular, and adds a lot of theming
> flexibility to Tk apps. In fact, it would bring Tkinter pretty much in
> line with wxPython in terms of a native "look" on various platforms,
> though wx still has a larger set of core widgets. I've seen only a
> little discusison about Tile in Python circles, but it's one of the most
> important advances going on with Tcl/Tk these days. Anyway, I'm just
> curious, as I have some experience with Tcl/Tk and am learning Python.

Hey, thanks for the pointer. I've been waiting for this for a while, but
not moving in the "Tk circles" I didn't know how close it was to done.

Assuming you've installed Tile such that Tk can find it, try this:

--------------

from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()
root.tk.call('package', 'require', 'tile')
root.tk.call('namespace', 'import', '-force', 'ttk::*')
root.tk.call('tile::setTheme', 'alt')
v = IntVar()
Radiobutton(root, text="Hello", variable=v, value=1).pack()
Radiobutton(root, text="There", variable=v, value=2).pack()

root.mainloop()


--------------

By no means is this a good program in any sense of the term; in particular
I don't know if the "root.tk.call"s can be written more concisely and
the forced import looks dangerous. But at least on my system, that works
as expected and at least demonstrates that you can reach tile from
Tkinter with no need to wait for someone.

(That is *so* going into my Tk programs.)


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 13:14:16 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:14:16 -0300
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
In-Reply-To: <1gl8zqv.1dppy3q143owj6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8dkd.1mk43di1xi6v0dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4418.1097061910.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8lg2.axf8gd9hwlbmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4426.1097075121.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8zqv.1dppy3q143owj6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904100610144c47599d@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:49:58 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > > module and place a dis.dis(dct['my_code']) in the metaclass's __new__
> > > and you'll see that basically MyClass.re_execute isn't very different
> > > from a reload of the module.  Isn't that a _bit_ too much in general?
> >
> > (repeating to myself: dis is your friend. dis is your friend).
> 
> If you're hacking at this level, it sure is;-).
> 
> > done a few more tests. I found a way to find the correct code object
> > for the _body_ of the class statement (or at least I think so), but
> 
> Good -- as I said I think it can be even more reliably found from inside
> the classbody itself, but, no big deal.
> 
> >         exec klass.my_code
> 
> Ah, this is your problem -- that's not what you want to do now.
> 
> > problem is that the code block that is found refers to the class
> > _body_ only. Checking dis.dis() helps to understand it:
> 
> Exactly: it's what builds the dict you want to pass to the metaclass
> (once you wrap it into a new.function, as I mentioned).
> 
> > There is not a single code block that does all the tasks related to
> > the class statement, and only it. In fact, there are two different
> > code objects to choose from, and neither really solves the problem.
> 
> Not by itself, but add some code and you'll be fine.
> 
> 1. You need to build an f = new.function(klass.my_code, globals()) in
>    your classmethod that now erroneously does the exec above quoted (you
>    could in fact do this in the metaclass, save the new function rather
>    than the code object -- get the right globals via inspect).

That's the part that I was missing. It looks less 'hackish' than I had
expect. I was really afraid that I would need to manage bytecode-level
hacks myself. I am not as concerned about getting the right globals,
though -- it's good enough if I'm able to supply whatever globals I
need upon calling, I think (unless I'm _really_ missing something).
 
> 2. you need to obtain the needed dict, that's just  d = f()  in your
>    method

There is still a question, but I think I already know the anwswer :-)
If the class *has* a base class, it has to be passed as a parameter. I
assume that i can simply call it like this: d=f(bases); or instead,
that I can fill the argdefs in the new.function call. I'll try it
later.

> 3. you can now call your metaclass with the appropriate bases and name:
>        klas = self.__class__  # or cls if this is a classmethod;-)
>        return type(klas)(klas.__name__, klas.__bases__, d)
> 
> voila, you're there.  This is all coded to minimize the need to have
> this method located in a specific class -- as I said I think you
> probably want to have this stuff in the metaclass (if you have a
> metaclass at all), but, whatever.

Tehre are two reasons to do it in a metaclass: first, I tested it and
it works (of sorts), while for some reason it wont work for a
non-metaclasses enabled class. Also, because in this scenario there
are other things that I already need to check, and a metaclass does it
nicely.

> This is basically just mimicking what Python itself does (check the
> dis.dis for a class statement as a starter): get the class body's code
> object, build a function from it, call the function (it returns its
> locals() as the result -- that 'return' is of course in the class body's
> code object, and dis.dis shows that...), and that's how you get the
> classdict on the stack.  Add name and bases, call the metaclass, and
> Bob's your uncle...

For now, I think I'll just be using the class-inside-a-def idiom. But
I'm still working around some design issues, and if the templating
mechanism gets in the final production code (it's only one of a few
competing designs), I'll surely try it again.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Oct 13 00:58:10 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:58:10 -0700
Subject: Snakelets and WSGI
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F6F@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

> Pardon my ignorance, but would it be feasible for a server such
> as Snakelets to implement both the WSGI API, *and* the existing
> 'native' API?

Sure.

> If I want this, and I understand WSGI correctly, this would
> require something that the WSGI spec calls "WSGI-Middleware".
> Right?

Probably not. Let's define terms a bit. Alan thought you might want to
split your framework into two parts, a "server" and an "application";
those are the terms WSGI uses. The server (your standalone CGI server)
would have to provide a WSGI interface. I'm thinking it would include
most of what's in your snakeserver.server module. By contrast, most of
the webapp module would go into the "application" half. The server would
request an iterable, and your PageProcessor(s) would supply them. You
could then queue YPages as normal and return the output to the
webapp.do_GET call, which would then return iter([output]), something
like:

    def do_GET(self, handler, passtroughRequest, passtroughResponse):
        pageprocessor =
self.getPageProcessor(self._getPath(handler.path), handler)
        if pageprocessor:
            output = pageprocessor.do_GET(passtroughRequest,
passtroughResponse)
            return iter([output])
        elif self.checkAuthorizationPatterns(passtroughRequest,
passtroughResponse, None, handler):
            # we received a GET request for a URL that is allowed, but
that we don't handle.
            raise NotHandled()


Snakelets are more problematic, because WSGI heavily prefers a "server
pull" model over write() calls. You'd probably have to deprecate
Snakelets as written (or wrap write() so it queues their output as
well), replacing them eventually with a model that yields values rather
than calling write().

Middleware would be for things like statistics, content rewriting, and
such, which existing servers (and apps) provide, but which are not
server-specific. Most commonly, that's going to be services which apply
directly to the HTTP stream, not to either your server or your app
framework. Looking quickly over Snakelets I don't see many candidates
for middleware.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From torsten.marek at student.uni-tuebingen.de  Fri Oct  8 10:03:44 2004
From: torsten.marek at student.uni-tuebingen.de (Torsten Marek)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:03:44 +0200
Subject: ANN: GUI wrapper for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4573.1097237841.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4573.1097237841.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ck66o1$mal$2@newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>

Stelios Xanthakis schrieb:
> Hi.
> 
> I'd like to announce the availability of a high-level GUI wrapper
> for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython.
> 
> Check out the screenshot at
> 
>    http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/twgui/
> 
> I wanted to write a *simple* app with a GUI that didn't look as horrible
> as Tk and without having to ask from the users to install this or that. 
> All three (pygtk, pyqt and wxpython) have serious drawbacks for one to
> invest their time learning them.
> 
Having had just a short peek at your code (I come from a PyQt background), I'd
suggest that you use properties for stuff like enabled (any widget) and text
(line edits), which saves you a lot of functions. It should also be possible to
define the shadow classes automatically (either dynamically or with a script
that generates them from an input file), because the simple widgets (at least
for PyQt) look pretty much the same.

greetings

Torsten


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 11:30:43 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 08:30:43 -0700
Subject: Looking for more Cookbook contributors
References: <0kavn019dk6vf7ini32t3muc9e6r9j7t1n@4ax.com>	<mailman.5575.1098897039.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gmdbxx.o57i68hu9achN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.5641.1099011631.5135.python-list@python.org>	<D3kgd.10428$KJ6.3501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.5648.1099041856.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410290730.6704e38@posting.google.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.5648.1099041856.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 04:56 +0000, Andrew Dalke wrote:
> > Terry Reedy wrote:
> > > I am surprised.  Maybe some mail systems have given up on bounces, perhaps 
> > > since they validate the good addresses by not bouncing.
> > 
> > My machine is one.  Before I turned on filtering I was getting ...
> > 12,000 spams a day sent to made up addresses @ my domain.  (They were
> > all forwarded to me).  I decided to /dev/null them instead of bouncing
> > in part to prevent the validation and in part because the 'from'
> > addresses were often forged, so my bounce mail would either end up in
> > some Random J. Blow's box or in turn get bounced back to me.
> 
> I wish more admins would do this.  Bouncing messages to invalid accounts
> is worse than worthless these days.

I'm taking this even more OT... my biggest source of junk mail is
virus warnings sent automatically as responses to virus emails with
forged from addresses. Its *really* annoying.....

Fuzzy


From agriff at tin.it  Mon Oct  4 18:53:05 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:53:05 GMT
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
References: <RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
	<Jdc7d.280819$4o.95007@fed1read01>
	<ijbrl0tfkraor6fe316aettvc0sqas3q8a@4ax.com>
	<du7y8ipv21m.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <mti3m0lncs2jcaeh3dbnqindal6mh7o1br@4ax.com>

On 02 Oct 2004 13:37:25 +0300, Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com>
wrote:

>Actually, you appeared to pass the reasonable limits for this
>particular newsgroup.

Ok, but when that happened ? Can you be more specific ?

Andrea



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 16 06:17:33 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:17:33 +0200
Subject: Reading struct with structs
References: <mailman.4777.1097616452.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glpsxx.zri2rg1m48uxbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Baillargeon, Sonny <Sonny.Baillargeon at bmonb.com> wrote:

> I am trying to read in a C struct file that contains sub-structs as part
> as the data definition.  For example:
>       int     a       /* 4 bytes */
>       int_t   b       /* custom struct */
>       blah_t  c       /* custom struct */
>       bing_t  d       /* custom struct */
> 
> The custom structs are arbitrary.  The struct module only allows me to
> have strict C datatypes.  How can I read in a struct recursively given I
> have to feed the struct.unpack?

You need to know how the various "custom structs" are made, in detail --
if you don't it's impossible to read that file, of course.  Now, just
insert the formatstring for the various fields of each "custom struct"
in place of the "custom struct" in the overall formatstring.


Alex


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 02:54:57 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 02:54:57 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <20041004222013.ECC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<41622FEB.1000300@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004222013.ECC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <41624541.4000107@cloudthunder.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>>This is a cool language, I love code chunks!!
>>    
>>
>
>They can be useful, but they are a great way to introduce security
>holes.
>
>  
>
Is that a limitation of the language (the security holes I mean)?

> Modify the interpreter. There was a thread a few months back on
>
>python-dev on doing tail-call optimization, I think someone even had a
>patch for it.
>
>Python's recursion limit is around 1000 levels deep.  If you are doing
>tail-calls more than 1000 levels deep, maybe you should be looping
>instead of recursing, or even creating your own stack.
>
>  
>
>Yes.  It is a keyword, like a few others.
>
>  
>
>>>>import keyword
>>>>keyword.kwlist
>>>>        
>>>>
>['and', 'assert', 'break', 'class', 'continue', 'def', 'del', 'elif', 'else', 'e
>xcept', 'exec', 'finally', 'for', 'from', 'global', 'if', 'import', 'in', 'is',
>'lambda', 'not', 'or', 'pass', 'print', 'raise', 'return', 'try', 'while', 'yiel
>  
>
Weird, I guess that means I can manipulate them in this way.  Wonder if 
I can add keywords...

>
>  
>
>>yes, you can write custom import hooks.
>>    
>>
>>I guess I'll hit the docs with how to do this.
>>    
>>
>
>I hear they aren't too hard.
>
>
>  
>
>>>>20. Date persistence and serialization
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>This can mean any one of a dozen things.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>I'd like to store function and variables and of course objects in a form 
>>that can be easily read back into the program/script.
>>    
>>
>
>Functions, no (security risk).
>  
>
Argg!

><SNIP>
>Don't be frustrated.  It is dynamically typed, but it is STRONGLY typed.
>
>Anything that you would want to do with a static typed language, can be
>done with Python.
>
>
>  
>
Thanks.  Doesn't this make my scripts slower though?

>There is a unittest module for encouraging test driven development.
>
>You can, of course, design by contract.  Nothing stops you from doing so.
>
>I do what could be considered design by contract in much of my contract
>work (no pun intended).  ... (roughly 1/3 of my
>code is) to verify correctness.
>
>When decorators via a syntax are introduced in Python 2.4, design by
>contract becomes easier (you can set preconditions and postconditions,
>or whatever you want).
>
>  
>
Cameron directed me to a design by contract module for Python.  My, 
imagine if you were using C, probably 4x as much code eh? --> "I also 
write extensive tests"

>Thinking about it, having never used Java, I imagine an "Interface"
>would be something like...
>
>
>class I_foo:
>    def funct1(self):
>        raise Exception, "Not Implemented"
>    def funct2(self, arg):
>        raise Exception, "Not Implemented"
>
>class foo_implementation(I_foo):
>    def funct1(self):
>        pass
>    def funct2(self, arg):
>        pass
>
>
>So, I suppose Python does, if implicitly.
>
>
>  
>
Cool.

>  
>
>>>Yes, if you are willing to work for it.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>I expect the docs will tell me how to do this.
>>    
>>
>
>There was another thread on this.  Check the thread on this mailing list
>with the subject of "Python Macros".
>
>
>  
>
I'm on it, thanks.

> <SNIP>
>
>  
>
>>What I actually meant was are there any facilities (built-in or modules) 
>>which allow for automatic compilation to C/C++/C#/D.  For example, 
>>particular Smalltalk distros compile to C as does ObjC.
>>    
>>
>
>Pyrex can compile a subset of Python to C.
>
>
>  
>
Great, I'll check that out.  I guess that will allow me to extend the 
language in C.

>There is also...
>
>print "Hello, World %s"%time.asctime()
>
>
>  
>
I see.

><SNIP>
>It isn't as fast as a real case statement, but if that is necessary...
>
>class foo:
>    def case_1(self, arg):
>        pass
>    def case_2(self, arg):
>        pass
>    def dispatch(self, arg1, arg2):
>        getattr(self, 'case_%i'%arg1)(arg2)
>
> - Josiah
>
>  
>
AWE-SOME Josiah.  I don't know how to thank you.  If I was **** off that 
might do you some good eh?  Alright then.  Thanks.


From jerf at jerf.org  Fri Oct  8 02:31:44 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 06:31:44 GMT
Subject: How to catch exceptions elegantly in this situation?
References: <e431ae34.0410071913.15954ed5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.08.02.50.53.714563@jerf.org>

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:13:06 -0700, Saqib Ali wrote:

> Check out the following code fragment
> 
> Line  1: myDict = {}
> Line  2: a = 5
> Line  3: b = 2
> Line  4: c = 0
> Line  5: myDict["A"] = a + b + c
> Line  6: myDict["B"] = a - b - c
> Line  7: myDict["C"] = a * b * c
> Line  8: myDict["D"] = a / b / c
> Line  9: myDict["E"] = a ** b ** c
> Line 10: ...<etc>...
> Line 11: ...<etc>...
> Line 12: ...<etc>...

Can you give me more detail? What is the real problem?

For example, for the code you give above, I think I would do:

import operator
myDict = {}
a = 5
b = 2
c = 0

def doOp(key, op):
    try:
        tmp = op(a, b)
        myDict[key] = op(tmp, c)
    except: # probably ought to narrow this down
        pass

for key, op in (("A", operator.add), ("B", operator.sub),
                ("C", operator.mul), ("D", operator.div),
                ("E", operator.pow)):
    doOp(key, op)


but with a better idea of the problem domain I may be able to be more
helpful.

Of course, this may start you on the path to a better idea.

Another, more generic possibility is to wrap your operations in a
function, or a lambda, and pass them in to some object to be evaluated in
a safe context. Depending on the domain, you may find a clever way to
collapse the problem so it isn't so cumbersome. For my solution, I'm
expecting that "...<etc>..." represents many more lines.

Oh, and unofficially, I recommend either "import operator as op" or "from
operator import *". But you didn't hear that from me. (I find I'm slightly
less "import *" phobic than many around here, if the module is a vital
part of the flow of the code and net-net, the repeated invocation of the
module name impedes reading the code. In the above fragment, I think
"operator." meets that standard. If this were a small part of a large
module, I wouldn't do it.)


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Oct 13 08:11:35 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:11:35 +0200
Subject: locks
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>

Ajay wrote:

> what would happen if i try to access a variable locked by another thread?
> i am not trying to obtain a lock on it, just trying to access it.

If you first tell us haw you actually lock a variable, we then might be able
to tell you what happens if you access it....

And in general: python has the PIL - Python Interpreter Lock - that
"brutally" serializes (hopefully) all accesses to python data-structures -
so e.g. running several threads, appending to the same list, won't result
in messing up the internal list structure causing segfaults or the like.
That makes programming pretty easy, at the cost of lots of waiting for the
individual threads.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Mon Oct 25 14:08:29 2004
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:08:29 -0700
Subject: comparing multiple copies of terrabytes of data?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.25.18.08.29.462743@dcs.nac.uci.edu>


We will soon have 3 copies, for testing purposes, of what should be about
4.5 terrabytes of data.

Rather than cmp'ing twice, to verify data integrity, I was thinking we
could speed up the comparison a bit, by using a python script that does 3
reads, instead of 4 reads, per disk block - with a sufficiently large
blocksize, of course.

My question then is, does python have a high-level API that would
facilitate this sort of thing, or should I just code something up based on
open and read?

Thanks!



From lcaamano at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 09:18:17 2004
From: lcaamano at gmail.com (Luis P Caamano)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 06:18:17 -0700
Subject: Reclaiming (lots of) memory
References: <87lleo6hva.fsf@thomas.local>
	<slrncm281h.cs.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<7xbrfirc9r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrncm2j0h.csu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<87pt3y44la.fsf@thomas.local> <2sgm8oF1kjn75U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c56e219d.0410220518.663c16f0@posting.google.com>

"James Kew" <james.kew at btinternet.com> wrote in message news:<2sgm8oF1kjn75U1 at uni-berlin.de>...
> "Thomas Rast" <foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:87pt3y44la.fsf at thomas.local...
> > Just to clear this up, the problem isn't that the process takes too
> > much memory while initializing.  [...]
> > The problem was that it wouldn't free *unused* RAM after
> > initialization.
> 
> Is this really a problem though, if the process is long-running after 
> initialisation? If the pages are unused after initialisation, won't they 
> eventually get swapped out to disk making the physical RAM available 
> elsewhere?
> 


Why swap out 60MB of "unused" memory???  That's a waste of CPU cycles
and disk space.

What if you wanted to run his program on a machine with 128MB of RAM
and NO swap or extremely slow swap.  If it freed the memory it would
run nicely with other apps, if it doesn't return the memory to the OS,
it might crash if the system needs to swap or the app might fail if
everything slows down too much while swapping those 60MB of unused
memory.

--
Luis P Caamano


From arvid at linux.se  Thu Oct 21 19:10:50 2004
From: arvid at linux.se (Arvid Andersson)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 01:10:50 +0200
Subject: Matrix (list-in-list), how to get a column?
In-Reply-To: <20041021151904.GA25755@shell.linux.se>
References: <20041021151904.GA25755@shell.linux.se>
Message-ID: <20041021231050.GA22311@shell.linux.se>

Hello,

Thanks to all of you, those were some quick responses :)
I knew there was a neat solution to that problem.

/Arvid Andersson



From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Oct  5 18:54:12 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:54:12 +0200
Subject: binary numbers
In-Reply-To: <E62dnZKZl9wKvP7cRVn-gw@comcast.com>
References: <cjv58g$q5i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<E62dnZKZl9wKvP7cRVn-gw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <416325c6$0$230$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Larry Bates wrote:
> Brad Tilley wrote:
> 
>> How can I specify that a number be represented in binary format when 
>> passing it to a function? I'm working with the Windows registry and 
>> REG_BINARY values expect numbers in binary form...
>>
>> This would be nice:
>>
>> import binary
>> x = binary(5)


I am not quite shure that I understand you correctly. But I think so.

You are probaly loking for the struct module. It handles strings as
lumps of binary data. So if you want to store something as "binary" you
convert it to a string containing binary data, and pass that string to
the registry.

It's not that hard. A function doing what you describe above could be
written a bit like:

# converts int to "binary short"
from struct import pack
x = pack('h', 5)

So technically x is now a string, but it contains the binary
representation of bytes that is a "short" on your system. I am not shure
if the registry expects a short though.


more info in the docs at:

4.3 struct -- Interpret strings as packed binary data



-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From dimitri.pater at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 17:02:22 2004
From: dimitri.pater at gmail.com (dimitri pater)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 23:02:22 +0200
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <20041008205902.GA7404@unununium.org>
References: <4166F64A.5080504@kzoo.edu> <20041008204409.GA5869@unununium.org>
	<4166FE2E.2070905@kzoo.edu> <20041008205902.GA7404@unununium.org>
Message-ID: <e75321bd0410081402698f6023@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:59:02 -0400, Phil Frost <indigo at bitglue.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 04:53:02PM -0400, dataangel wrote:
> > Phil Frost wrote:
> >
> > >^ is the bitwise xor operator. Performing bitwise operations on strings
> > >doesn't make much sense, so it's invalid. You can define a logical xor
> > >function like so:
> > >
> > >xor = lambda p, q: (p and not q) or (not p and q)
> > >
> > >or equivalently:
> > >
> > >xor = lambda p, q: bool(p) != bool(q)
> > >
> > >On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 04:19:22PM -0400, dataangel wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> ...
> > >>Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for detecting if
> > >>two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for strings shouldn't be
> > >>supported. Am I missing something? Inparticular, I think it'd be cool to
> > >>have "xor" as opposed to "^". The carrot would return the resulting
> > >>value, while "xor" would act like and/or do and return the one that was
> > >>true (if any).
> > >
> > >
> > Nice =D
> >
> > But why no xor builtin? :P
> 
> I think it would be nice, but one argument is that it's not possible to
> short-circut xor, both sides must be evaluated to determine the result.
> Contrast this with 'and' and 'or', which know after evaluating the first
> expression if it's required to evaluate the latter. For example:
> 
> 0 and 123       -> 0
> False and 123   -> False
> 123 or False    -> 123
> 
> But since both sides of xor must be evaluated, there is no reason to
> return one expression over the other. I would argue it should always
> return True or False.
> 
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
Please visit dimitri's website: www.serpia.com


From marcos at nordesia.org  Thu Oct 21 04:07:56 2004
From: marcos at nordesia.org (marcos at nordesia.org)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:07:56 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: how to reading binary data...
In-Reply-To: <20041021070520.2594.qmail@webmail25.rediffmail.com>
References: <20041021070520.2594.qmail@webmail25.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <54357.213.60.67.95.1098346076.squirrel@213.60.67.95>

## I hope this code could help you.

def readLong(fin):
	"""Reads next long from file"""
	s = fin.read(4)

	if len(s) == 0: # test reaching of end of file
		raise Exception("END-OF-FILE")
	return str2long(s)

# First element of this list, is the index in a 4 byte string of the
most-significative-byte, second is the second most-significative and so
on.
SIGNIFICANCE = [0,1,2,3]  # this list is useful when reading bigendian longs
#SIGNIFICANCE = [3,2,1,0] # this list is useful when reading littleendian
longs

def str2long(s):
	"""Returns a long, using the first four byte of a string"""
	l = 0L # the long we will get
	for pos in SIGNIFICANCE: # get each byte in the order specified by the
significance list
		if pos < len(s):
			c = s[pos]
		else:	# if we take a byte that is not in byte string (this happens at
the end of file when file length is not multiple of 4.
			c = chr(0)

		l*=0x100	# shift left 8 bits
		l+=ord(c)	# add the readed byte at the LSB.

	return l

#Testing
fi = open("name-of-file","rb")
run = 1
while run:
	try:
		print hex(readLong(fi))
	except Exception:
		run=0
fi.close()


Regards, marcos.



>
> Hello
>
> I opened any particular file with the 'rb' mode that is read binary mode.
> so python will treat the data as a raw data. now i want to read first 4
> bytes only then i will convert the first 4 bytes into long datatype and
> then again read 4 bytes and will do the same.
> But how to set & move the pointer using loop?
> also how to convert into long?
>
> Regards
> Sandeep
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From gs.lists at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 10:55:58 2004
From: gs.lists at gmail.com (gs)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 07:55:58 -0700
Subject: Establishing a p2p connection in python
References: <a50cee44.0410080026.30cf04f0@posting.google.com>
	<du71xg9f9vn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <a50cee44.0410110655.6d82c93c@posting.google.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message news:<du71xg9f9vn.fsf at lehtori.cc.tut.fi>...
> >>>>> "gs" == gs  <gs.lists at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>     gs> Proposed solution: I thought that one approach could be to
>     gs> write a small server for my public server with the sole
>     gs> purpose of keeping track of connected users and establishing
>     gs> p2p connections on demand.
> 
> One lightweight approach (assuming that a web server is available)
> would be to put up a cgi script that adds the ip:port information to
> onlineusers.txt. Then the clients can just use urllib to notify the
> script when they become online, and also get the list of connected
> clients by just retrieving onlineusers.txt. Of course onlineusers.txt
> could contain the lists of shared files for each client as well...
> 
> If you use unique user ids, you can keep the file from growing up too
> much. If not, you could clean up dead clients by trying to connect all
> the specified addresses.
> 
>     gs> 1) I've written a threaded server that stores information
>     gs> about connected servers in a "container class". This class
>     gs> h

olds information about username, a unique ID, the connecting
>     gs> adress and the actual socket. I have not been able to find any
>     gs> information online on how i could go about to connect two
>     gs> sockets. It would seem like the socket is already "occupied"
>     gs> since it is connected to the server. Could one duplicate, or
>     gs> otherwise get a dedicated socket for sending binary data, to
>     gs> one connected socket from another? A few pointers and/or tips
>     gs> would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> If you went on to "connect" the two sockets, you would just
> instantiate a thread that forwards the data, and would use more server
> bandwidth than an FTP server would have used.
> 
> The idea in p2p is to make clients connect to each other. The task of
> the server is to tell the clients about other clients so they can
> connect to each other.
> 
> 
>     gs> 2) I've also failed to find python specific information on how
>     gs> abouts one would do file resuming. I would think that you,
>     gs> somehow, use md5-checksums to check file status and somehow
>     gs> skip the first part of the datastream. Also, pointers and
>     gs> maybe an explanation in (short) pseudo-code would be much
>     gs> appreciated.
> 
> It's trivial since you are going to implement a custom protocol
> anyway. Make the "get file" command that you pass to the file provider
> such that in addition to the file name you pass the starting offset
> within the file.
> 
> 
>     gs> 3) Is this too big of a project for a novice programmer such
>     gs> as myself? I do want to go through with this since it's a
>     gs> genuine problem, but i do not know if i'm ready. I'm not a
>     gs> "quitter" per say, but i'm afraid doing something TOO advanced
>     gs> in the beginning might be overwhelming :)
> 
> No, it's a great first project. Go ahead, I believe you will find it
> surprisingly easy, educational and something for which Python is a
> perfect fit.
> 
> It'll be a fun project to expand as well, to provide chunked file
> transfer etc. You could also explore the alternative of making it a
> bunch of wrapper scripts that just invoke bittorrent...

Thanks all of you for the nice feedback. I'm spending all of my
sparetime just reading up on all technlogies and suggestions! :)

cheers,
gs


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 11 11:19:37 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 15:19:37 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<du7fz4n6ozx.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<41695425$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1glhz5t.k4p1lz19jdab0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416a9808$0$416$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1gli329.1qeu9p019vpx9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416aa489$0$5677$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-11, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Surely they must coerce the operands for the "test" part if not
>> for the "return" part.
>
> We may have different conceptions about the meaning of the word
> "coerce", perhaps...?  For example, Python may be doing len(x) when I
> use x in a boolean context,

I guess I was assuming Python was doing the equivalent of
bool(x) when x was used as an operand of a logical operator.
That's coercion to me.

> but I sure don't see computing len(x) as "coercing" anything.
> To me, Coercion, in Python, is what's documented at
> <http://docs.python.org/ref/coercion-rules.html> and is quite
> a different concept from Truth Value Testing, which is
> documented at <http://docs.python.org/lib/truth.html>.

I guess I'm misusing the term coercion (at least in a Python
context).  To _me_ operands of logical operators are being
coerced to boolean.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm gliding over a
                                  at               NUCLEAR WASTE DUMP near
                               visi.com            ATLANTA, Georgia!!


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 20:33:35 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:33:35 -0300
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
In-Reply-To: <cl1j2i$1ta$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <mailman.5138.1098132727.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl1j2i$1ta$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <864d370904101817336c17abf8@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:19:43 +0100, Michael Hoffman
<m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote:
> Robert Brewer wrote:
> >
> > What do you all think? I've been using a class-based variant of this in
> > production code (business app) for six months now, and have found it
> > extremely helpful. I saw a pointer to itertools today and figured a
> > function-based version might be nice to include in that module someday.
> 
> Could you give a real-world example of its use?

I think Robert is referring to a conversation where I took part
earlier today. My problem was to evaluate some alternatives for a
recursive generator. The problem with the recursive generator is that
one has to loop over the nested generators simply to yield back the
results to the original caller; for example, if you are at depth three
on the recursive generator, each yield in the inner generator will in
turn generate two more yields on as you go up the recursion stack,
before finally yielding the value to the original caller.

The warehouse may be useful in that situation; the solution is not
exactly the same, but it allows to express similar ideas and may be a
good alternative when designing generator-based code for complex
structures.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct  5 22:46:47 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:46:47 -0500
Subject: id() collisions on bound methods [was: metaclass and
	customization with parameters]
In-Reply-To: <864d370904100518566559f66e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F33@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
	<20041005235752.29723.1522463815.divmod.quotient.10124@ohm>
	<59e9fd3a04100517216b5bf323@mail.gmail.com>
	<864d370904100518566559f66e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041006024647.GA7594@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 10:56:59PM -0300, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> ...but even so, what doesn't make sense to me is if it's worth to do
> it, at each and every method invocation. I really don't know, and I'm
> curious, but I have no clue where to start looking for it, or how to
> measure the impact on real-time performance.

In the Olden Days, "caching" bound methods would have led to cycles
that were never collected.  Nowadays, there's a cyclic GC collector,
so if that was the killer for this idea maybe it's worth revisiting.

Given
    class C:
        def f(self): pass
    c = C()
    f = c.g = c.f
    
it's fastest (1.4 usec/loop) to call f() [which you'd do in a tight
loop], slower (1.66 usec/loop) to call c.g() [which is what you're
proposing Python should do automatically] and slowest (2.01 usec/loop)
to call c.f() [what happens today if you don't take special steps].

For new-style classes, the timings are similar, but with less advantage
to c.g().  1.39, 1.87, 1.98.

When the attribute doesn't reside on the class, but on a base class,
things get a little worse.
    class C(object):
        def f(self): pass

    for i in range(10):
        class C(C): pass

    c = C()
    f = c.g = c.f
gives these timings: 1.38, 2.83, 2.97.  With old-style classes, 1.4,
1.71, 3.88.  Here's where the big difference lies---when you've got a
lot of base classes, and the method isn't found until many of them are
searched.

Perhaps someone could devise a metaclass that does bound method caching.
In a few situations, it might be worth having, but I'm not sure if in
those situations a little
    c.f = c.f
in __init__, or manual hosting like 'f=c.f' is not just as appropriate.

Jeff
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 14 03:42:25 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:42:25 +0200
Subject: Some notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glm9eg.1yldhpvtdfww2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
   ...
> > - TABs can be accepted only inside comments.
> 
> In Py3k, tabs are not going to be allowed as indentation to Python code.
> Keeping them in strings and comments is a non-issue.

While it ain't a biggie, I'd like to see tabs forbidden in string
literals -- using \t when you mean tab is more readable, and the one
obvious way to do it.

> > - The optional static typing seems a quite nice thing (for compilers
> > too, they can produce faster code. It can probably allow faster and
> > smaller arrays, like those of numarray).
> 
> Asking for static typing in Python is a pretty big request.  It seems
> from those responses to similar questions, the answer is simply "static
> typing isn't coming to CPython any time soon, probably not even for Py3k".

Unfortunately I suspect you may be wrong (for py3000 only): GvR does
seem to like the idea of optional static typing (perhaps with
interfaces, only, not necessarily with _types_ as such).

> > - The functional IF seems interesting, like:
> > if(cond, code1, code2)
> > (Or maybe a different syntax, that allows elseif too.)
> 
> Many variants have been proposed over the years, but none have ever made
> it in.

I think generators could get us close to this kind of thing (in Py3k).

They'd have to sprout a new method 'skip', similar to 'next' but defined
to not evaluate the argument of the next yield.  Then, for some form of
function call, foo(a, b, c), instead of the current equivalent-of
    _temp = a, b, c    # make args tuple (evaluating all args)
    foo(*_temp)        # pass the tuple to foo
would compile to the equivalent of
    def _temp():
        yield a
        yield b
        yield c
    foo(@_temp)        # fantasy syntax for 'pass the generator to foo'

We could use braces instead of parentheses for this hypothetical
__call_with_generator__, whatever.  Such functions as lisp's cond might
then easily be implemented:

def cond(@_args):
    for test in _args:
        if test: return _args.next()
        else: _args.skip()

Just musing, of course, but it does appear within reach, while, before
generators, it didn't.


Alex


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 13 19:59:01 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:59:01 GMT
Subject: String manipulation advice needed.
References: <CE90A4CF2E5E9C4890AE5D9D8A5EFAE3032CCC22@CINMLVEM10.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<mailman.4901.1097699057.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416dbf37.192257932@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:26:23 +0200, "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

>"Raaijmakers, Vincent (GE Infrastructure)" wrote:
>
>> What is the easiest way of getting this information out of a string:
>
>making some reasonable assumptions, and generalising to any number
>of information instances:
>
>> foo = "My number 70 is what I want to parse"  => 70
>
>print re.findall("\d+", foo)
>
>> foo = "My info {info} between the curly brackets is what I want to parse" => {info}
>
>print re.findall("{[^}]+}", foo)
>
>> foo = "My  info between [hello world] is what I want to parse" => [hello world]
>
>print re.findall("\[[^]]+\]", foo)
>
>or, as a one-size-fits-all pattern:
>
>print re.findall("\d+|{[^}]+}|\[[^]]+\]", foo)
>
You can also tag the alternatives with names, so you can know what was found, e.g.,

 >>> foo = 'grabage {curly stuff} 123 [bracket stuff] 456'
 >>> import re
 >>> for m in re.finditer("(?P<dec>\d+)|(?P<curl>{[^}]+})|(?P<sqbk>\[[^]]+\])", foo):
 ...    for k,v in m.groupdict().items():
 ...       if v is None: continue
 ...       print '%6s: %r' % (k,v)
 ...
   curl: '{curly stuff}'
    dec: '123'
   sqbk: '[bracket stuff]'
    dec: '456'

Not for speed, I suppose ;-) (I can't recall the better way I think I did that once ;-)
BTW, also note that nested {}'s or []'s would cause problems.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From rowen at cesmail.net  Fri Oct 29 18:33:20 2004
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:33:20 -0700
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
References: <8249c4ac.0410281110.39d68dc2@posting.google.com>
	<rowen-643489.15583428102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<mailman.5676.1099074998.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rowen-1D17BB.15332029102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.5676.1099074998.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

>"Russell E. Owen" <rowen at cesmail.net> wrote:
>> - quote the path in '"..."' (single quotes on the outside; no other form 
>> of double quoting I tried worked). Fails on Windows.
>
>Which windows?  It works for me on both 2k and XP (though I'm not
>running ds9):
>>>> os.popen3('"C:\\Program Files\\WinImage\\winimage.exe"')
>(<open file '"C:\Program Files\WinImage\winimage.exe"', mode 'w' at 
>0x007E7AE0>,
> <open file '"C:\Program Files\WinImage\winimage.exe"', mode 'r' at 
> 0x007EC2E0>,
> <open file '"C:\Program Files\WinImage\winimage.exe"', mode 'r' at 
> 0x007EC360>)

You are right!

Putting double quotes around the path to the executable works so long as 
there are no command line arguments. Unfortunately, as soon as you add 
extra words, os.popen3 acts as if the double quotes are missing and can 
no longer find the executable.

This works:
os.popen3('"C:\\Program Files\\ds9\\ds9"')

This fails on Windows -- cannot launch C:\Program -- but I tried 
equivalent code on unix and it works fine (not that one normally needs 
it on unix; executables are usually found automatically):
os.popen3('"C:\\Program Files\\ds9\\ds9" -title foo -port 0')

I see this same bug trying to use the subprocess module in Python 2.4b1 
with my Windows Python 2.3 (see PR 105470: 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1057048&group_i
d=5470&atid=105470>).

My current solution is to temporarily change to the executable's 
directory, for example:
currDir = os.getcwd()
try:
    os.chdir(_XPADir)
    fds = os.popen3("xpaget ds9 file myfile.fits")
finally:
    os.chdir(currDir)

*****

Regarding my statement you quoted:
- quote the path in '"..."' (single quotes on the outside; no other form 
of double quoting I tried worked). Fails on Windows.

That was in reference to using xpa to send file names to ds9. The file 
name is sent as a command line argument, so it's a different issue than 
discussed above. For those who care, it turns out that "{...}" is the 
recommended way to send such paths to ds9. That's fine, but it also 
turns out that ds9 on Windows requires the directory separator to be /, 
not \!

For any ds9/xpa users out there, I posted a summary what I learned: 
"Tricks for Using xpa to Command ds9": 
<http://www.astro.washington.edu/rowen/ds9andxpa.html>. I'll keep this 
updated if I learn anything new. I also hope to shorten it if some of 
the ds9 bugs and quirks are fixed. I do not discuss the details of 
os.popen3 and such, just xpa/ds9 issues.

Thank you all again for all your help. I hope to have a cross-platform 
version of RO.DS9 out in the next week or so.

-- Russell


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Oct  2 05:54:00 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:54:00 +0200
Subject: locale.setlocale problems
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4194.1096709659.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4194.1096709659.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <415e7aaf$0$24565$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Ksenia Marasanova wrote:
> I have some problems with locale module.
> On my workstation, changing locale doesn't have effect:
> 
> Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11)
> [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

Yes. OS X, unfortunately, doesn't really support the C locale APIs.
More precisely, it supports the functions, but they have no meaningful
effect. Python relies on the operating system here, so please bring
this up with your OS vendor.

> On the server, it doesn't work at all:
> 
> Python 2.3 (#1, Jan  4 2004, 14:30:19)
> [GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> import locale
>  >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'nl_NL')

Likewise. Apparently, the operating system does not support that locale,
so Python cannot support it, either.

> All I want to do, is format numbers with comma as decimal separator in a 
> web application. Is there some system libraries I have to install, to 
> make locale work?

On freebsd4, this may help, but you would need to ask in a FreeBSD
newsgroup. On OS X, you just have to wait a couple more OS releases.

> And the last question: when I change locale in a Python application, it 
> affects only the current namespace, right? I hope so... :)

Not sure what a namespace is, in this context, but I guess the answer is
"yes".

Regards,
Martin


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 13:28:25 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:28:25 -0300
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
In-Reply-To: <1gl90d9.pdp4wylj1ihkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410052233.16505629@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4427.1097075425.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl90d9.pdp4wylj1ihkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904100610283d8fa3c0@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:58:40 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> > def BuildTemplate(<template parameters>)
> >     class TemplateClass(...):
> >         ...
> >     return TemplateClass
> >
> > It's simple, and less hackish, but still unusual. I fear I may be
> > missing something on my design, if I need to resort to such hacks.
> 
> Personally, I _like_ using 'class' statements to make classes and 'def'
> statements to make functions; I don't see either as hacks.  Messing with
> bytecodes, building a function with new.function around a certain code
> object, calling the metaclass explicitly... that feels more hackish to
> me, personally.  I do it when I must, but 99.9% of the time I have no
> problem avoiding it in production code, it seems to me.

I'm not sure if I understood what you meant. My common sense tells me
that the class-inside-a-def is more acceptable, given all the black
magic that we had to go through to be able to re-execute the class
statement. But the function above really returns a class... which is
'wrong', but many counts (although nothing stops it from happening,
after all, classes are objects pretty much like any other object,
albeit with the special ability to build new objects instances).

On the other hand, the re-execute-class-statement trick is a real hack
-- specially when seen from the inside. However, if everything is
clearly hidden in a metaclass (and I mean, a *real* metaclass, not a
def __metaclass__()); better yet, if the metaclass itself is hidden in
a base class; what do you think is cleaner?

a) class-inside-a-def

def BuildTemplate(<template parameters>)
    class TemplateClass(...):
        ...
    return TemplateClass
T = BuildTemplate(<params>)

b) re-exec-class

# GenericTemplate is a metaclass-enabled ancestor
from template import GenericTemplate
class TemplateClass(GenericTemplate):
        ...

T = TemplateClass.NewTemplate(<params>)

c) neither of the above -- there must be a better way to do it.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 17 20:42:19 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:42:19 -0700
Subject: question on list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <ckv2ie$vuo$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <1gltsqx.3sh0uedtr3f0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ckv2ie$vuo$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20041017173925.0A14.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> Yes, as with integrals, the sum of an nth degree poly is (n+1)th degree. 
> The n+2 coefficients for the sum from 0 to k can be determined by actually 
> summing the poly for each of 0 to n+1 and equating the n+2 partial sume to 
> the result poly (with powers evaluated) to get n+2 equations in n+2 
> unknowns.  Even with integral coefficients in the poly to be summed, the 
> coefficients are generally non-integral rationals and can get pretty nasty 
> to calculate, so for exact results, it may well be easier and faster to 
> write and run a program.


As long as you can solve a k+1 degree polynomial with linear algebra
(via gaussian elimination, etc.), you can find:
    sum([i**k for i in xrange(1, n+1)])
... with little issue (if you know the trick).

 - Josiah



From agriff at tin.it  Tue Oct 26 16:48:06 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:48:06 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <j0dtn016bbfrttbr5i5deja4qia9ohucut@4ax.com>

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:33:59 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>
wrote:

>Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
>> in site-packages) in an application.
>
>I'd say everything that uses a GPL'd module is derived work and must also be
>GPL'd. It doesn't matter how you distribute it. If the module is under the
>LGPL you could use it in a closed source app but must make available any
>changes to the original module.
>
>Peter

IIUC in the case of LGPL you've also another obligation; if there
is a new version of the library then your users should be able
to link-in the newer version instead of the one you provided.
This is what IMO basically rules out any use of LGPL-ed code in
closed-source projects with a few exceptions (very very very
VERY stable libraries).
Suppose that a new version of the library changes the *interface*
of a call (this sometimes happens)... how can you be still
compliant if you're not providing the source code ? Are you
promising eternal recompilation/adaptation service ?

I also think this re-link requirement is a complete nonsense;
for example if I provide support for an application I would
surely reserve the right to refuse to provide any support in
case the user tampered the versions of the libraries provided:
break the seal, and you're on your own.

Andrea


From chrispatton at gmail.com  Sun Oct 10 01:34:01 2004
From: chrispatton at gmail.com (Chris Patton)
Date: 9 Oct 2004 22:34:01 -0700
Subject: new to python
Message-ID: <9c3edc58.0410092134.8e5278a@posting.google.com>

I need to make several user-defined objects for a program I'm making.
I know that one way is to use the exec statement (i.e. exec
'raw_input() = "cheese"'), but it can get very visually cluttered at
times.
i.e. exec raw_input()+num+'={"I":'+b+','+am+':"just","fine":1}'

Does anyone know a different way I can do this? I need to do this to
define a dictionary, but a general method for all objects would be
better.

Thanks for any help!
---


From CarlosRivera at badnamefornospam.to  Thu Oct  7 01:41:28 2004
From: CarlosRivera at badnamefornospam.to (CarlosRivera)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 05:41:28 GMT
Subject: Using JYTHON inside ANT : access os module -> "ImportError: no
 module named javaos"
In-Reply-To: <78c5e744.0410050738.a333efe@posting.google.com>
References: <78c5e744.0410050738.a333efe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cG49d.25179$QJ3.22946@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

I ran into that one as well.  I think that you have to have the PYTHON 
path or classpath properly setup to reference them.  I did not really 
need anything from python, so I just used java routines for everything 
as I was generating a manifest file.

Tip: Due to the forced indent from python, I moved the script to a 
separate file.  This way the code can look like a normal jython/python 
script.

eric_bellard wrote:
> Using JYTHO inside ANT : access os module
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I like to use JYTHON inside ANT task.
> 
> I'm using:
> - WSAD 5.1.1
> - jython.jar inside WTE5.1
> - bsf.jar inside WTE5.1
> 
> I've referenced jython.jar and bsf.jar into the ant classpath
> (Windows>Preferences>Ant>Runtime>Classpath)
> 
> Here's a working script:
> 
> <project name="helloWorld" default="jython-hello-world" basedir=".">
> 
> 	<property name="test.path.dir" location="D:/tmp/jyton"/>
> 	<target name="jython-hello-world">
> 		<script language="jython"> 
> 			<![CDATA[
> import sys
> 
> 
> print 'Hello Jytho World'
> path = project.getProperty("test.path.dir")
> print path
> 			
> 			]]> 
> 		</script>		
> 	</target>
> </project>
> 
> 
> The problem is when I want to access to the ptyhon 'os' module.
> The following target don't work:
> 	<target name="jython-hello-world2">
> 		<script language="jython"> 
> 			<![CDATA[
> import sys, os
> 
> 
> print 'Hello Jytho World'
> path = project.getProperty("test.path.dir")
> print path
> os.listdir(path)			
> 			]]> 
> 		</script>		
> 	</target>
> 
> 
> The returned error is:
> 
> jython-hello-world:
>       [script] Hello Jytho World
>       [script] D:\tmp\jyton
>       [script] BUILD FAILED:
> file:D:/cc_views/dinb_comp_java_jraf_v2_0_act_E391485/dinb_comp_java_jraf/livraison/jython/build.xml:63:
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<string>", line 8, in ?
> ImportError: no module named javaos
> 
> 
> Does someone has any clue?
> 
> Thanks by advance.
> 
> Eric


From dthierbach at gmx.de  Fri Oct 29 06:45:13 2004
From: dthierbach at gmx.de (Dirk Thierbach)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:45:13 +0200
Subject: Tkinter and utf-8
References: <mailman.5643.1099019383.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4181cc21$0$3620$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<mailman.5644.1099029894.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4181ED60.5010703@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.5646.1099035549.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20041029104513.80B.0.NOFFLE@ID-7776.user.dfncis.de>

Justin Ezequiel <jezequiel at gmail.com> wrote:
> Among others, I am missing characters in the range 
>        017F     383    LATIN SMALL LETTER LONG S 
> to 
>        036F     879    COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER X 

> my xlsfonts numbers: 
> 448     539   24261 

The numbers don't help a lot, but you can use xlsfonts to get better
information. Unicode encoding is 'iso10646-1', so do

xlsfonts -fn '*iso10646*' 

to see what unicode fonts you have in the first place. Adding -lll
will list metrics for each character, so do (for example)

xlsfonts -lll -fn '*iso10646*' | grep 0x17f

to see all the metrics for LATIN SMALL LETTER LONG S. If any of these
have non-zero metrics, the character is available. Inspect the full
output to find the complete font name, and use 'xfd' to display the
font. On my system, for example, all *misc* fonts have this character,
but the *helvetica* fonts don't.

Finally, you have to make sure Tk uses the fonts. IIRC Tkinter allows
you to access the Tk option database, so set the font options
with X-style names. That should do the trick, but I didn't check.

> I'll get some help here re obtaining fonts. 
> Thank you. 

I use Debian, not Mandrake, but you should be able to download Mandrake 
packages for fonts somewhere, if necessary. Make sure there is no version
clash with the X server you are using.

- Dirk


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Oct 12 13:44:56 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:44:56 -0400
Subject: How to: get list of modules in a package
References: <4OudnSEQhLvFyfbcRVn-pg@rogers.com><dfWdnaXpKtgvb_bcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4757.1097594848.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Ev-dnS1wxIC7hfHcRVn-tQ@rogers.com>

What a tease!  "It definitely has been done in the past", so there must be a 
way, but you're not telling us how you did that!  :-)

Oh well, I have another solution (based on os.listdir) and even if it is not 
the most elegant one that could exist, at least it's going to be clear to 
understand.

Dan

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.4757.1097594848.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Peter L Hansen wrote:
> ...
>
>> Given the dynamic nature of Python, I doubt that's easy to do.
>> I'm not sure even os.listdir(), for example, can be relied on,
>> given that you can import modules from zip files, or if the
>> import hook is used, even from remote locations or, presumably
>> (though I haven't seen it done yet), from "thin air" where
>> the module is generated dynamically.
>
> I used to do this somewhere in mcf.vrml (old VRML97 processing package). 
> The idea was to generate a module to hold classes which were also 
> generated on-the-fly (from VRML97 prototypes).  You could then import the 
> classes from the non-existent module as long as the module itself (which 
> roughly corresponded to a VRML97 file) was part of your pickle.  The 
> package holding those modules was empty until such time as you either 
> generated one of those modules or loaded one from a pickle, and there was 
> just no reasonable way to know what would eventually show up there.
>
> Advances in Python (and my moving away from my perverse love of such 
> tricks ;) ) made that particular usage obsolete, but it definitely has 
> been done in the past...
>
> Enjoy,
> Mike
>
> ________________________________________________
>  Mike C. Fletcher
>  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
>  http://www.vrplumber.com
>  http://blog.vrplumber.com
> 




From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct  4 18:33:39 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:33:39 -0400
Subject: FTP without timeout?
In-Reply-To: <1096874575.935801@ftpgate>
References: <1096874575.935801@ftpgate>
Message-ID: <ehk8d.2954$TY2.2825@lakeread04>

Chris wrote:

> How do I setup an FTP connection without timeout using ftplib.FTP?
> 
> I've tried
> ftp = ftplib.FTP('server')
> ftp.login('user', 'xxx')
> ftp.sock.settimeout(None)
> or
> ftp.sock.settimeout(3600)
> or
> ftp.sock.setblocking(True)
> but it always timeout after 10 minutes of inactivity.
> The server allows idle up to 240 minutes before disconnecting.
> 
> Please help! Thanks in advance.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
Try putting

import socket
socket.setdefaulttimeout(240*60)

at the start of your code to see whether this makes a difference. This 
ensures that the socket timeout is established before a connection is 
made to the remote endpoint.

Though frankly, from the documentation, since there doesn't appear to be 
a default timeont on sockets, I'm not sure where this bizarre ten minute 
timeout is coming from. The string "time" doesn't appear at all in the 
ftplib source, so I'm somewhat stumped.

Are you sure the server doesn't require some sort of keepalive from the 
client?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Oct 17 05:38:53 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:38:53 +0200
Subject: List Flatten
References: <5c882bb5.0410161531.41713754@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckteik$sg7$05$1@news.t-online.com>

bearophile wrote:

> def listflatten(l):
> """Flattens?a?list,?examples:
> listflatten("a")?=>?"a"
> listflatten([])?=>?[]
> listflatten([[1,[2,[],"a"]])?=>?[1,2,"a"]
> """
> if?type(l)?!=?list:
> return?l
> else:
> result?=?[]
> stack?=?[]
> stack.append((l,0))
> while?len(stack)?!=?0:
> sequence,?j?=?stack.pop(-1)
> while?j?<?len(sequence):
> if?type(sequence[j])?!=?list:
> k,?j,?lens?=?j,?j+1,?len(sequence)
> while?j?<?len(sequence)?and?\
> (type(sequence[j])?!=?list):
> j?+=?1
> result.extend(sequence[k:j])
> else:
> stack.append((sequence,?j+1))
> sequence,?j?=?sequence[j],?0
> return?result
 
I see my newsreader has a different notion about what flatten is meant to
be :-)

Have you considered generators?

def flatten(items):
    if not isinstance(items, list):
        yield items
    stack = [iter(items)]
    while stack:
        for item in stack[-1]:
            if isinstance(item, list):
                stack.append(iter(item))
                break
            yield item
        else:
            stack.pop()

assert list(flatten([[[[]]], 0, 1, [[[2,[3, [4]]]], [],[5, 6], 7, [8, 9]],
10])) == range(11)

I have not timed it, I just prefer the generator for its clarity (provided
it is correct, I haven't tested it either). This is achieved mostly by
hiding the indices together with the underlying list in iterator objects.
Generators may also save you a lot of memory for very large data structures
as you can iterate over a flat _view_ of your nested lists without ever
having to _create_ the large flat list.

Peter



From berni at birkenwald.de  Fri Oct  8 20:49:58 2004
From: berni at birkenwald.de (Bernhard Schmidt)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 00:49:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: result sorting in socket.getaddrinfo?
Message-ID: <slrncmed23.p15.berni@bschmidt.msgid.cybernet-ag.net>

Hello,

sorry for bothering, I'm not a programmer and I don't do much python,
I'm more a networking guy trying to get his favourite linux distribution
to update through the shiny new protocol IPv6 again (for those who are
interested, I'm talking about Gentoo Linux)

Gentoo's portage system is implemented in python calling rsync to sync
with a mirror server. There are rotations (metahostnames with many
address records) where portage has to decide to which IP it wants to
sync.

Basically the program needs a list of all available IP addresses and
will cycle through those until the sync is finished successfully.

The old code looked like that

| ips = socket.gethostbyname(hostname)[2]

if you test this for example with rsync.de.gentoo.org as hostname you
will get a list of addresses that changes its order with every call.
This behaviour is used for loadbalancing and failover through the
servers.

Now to support IPv6 addresses one has to use socket.getaddrinfo. This is
my current try (don't laugh :-) ):

| ipsockets = socket.getaddrinfo(hostname,None,0,socket.SOCK_STREAM)
| for socket in ipsockets:
|	if (socket[0]==10):
|		ips.append('[' + socket[4][0] + ']')
|	else:
|		ips.append(socket[4][0])

Big problem: The result of getaddrinfo() and therefor of ips is sorted
in some whay. If you again do

| >>> socket.getaddrinfo("rsync.de.gentoo.org",None,0,socket.SOCK_STREAM);

and have a closer look at the resulting list you will observe two
things (at least I do on my box)

a) The two IPv6 addresses ([2001:andsoon]) are always in front of the
   IPv4 addresses. This is expected behaviour and is consistent with
   most applications/stacks supporting IPv6

b) The records within one address family (IPv4 or IPv6) are not really
   in randomized order. I called it several hundred times now and the
   order of the IPv6 records is always

   	'2001:638:500:101::21', '2001:7b0:11ff:1::1:1'

   even worse, there are 15 IPv4 records in that list, and I have so far
   seen only two of them at the beginning of the list. 

   When I debug the on-wire format of the DNS queries I can see that the
   resolver server indeed answers with randomized order, so the sorting
   seems to appear either somewhere in Python or somewhere in the
   glibc.

The consequence of this would be, that the two servers in front of the
list would be hammered with traffic and the others idle around.

1.) Is it possible to change this behaviour?

2.) If not, does someone have a code snippet available for randomizing
    the resulting list or another idea how to solve this?

Python 2.3.3 (#1, Jun  4 2004, 00:57:34)
[GCC 3.3.2 20031218 (Gentoo Linux 3.3.2-r5, propolice-3.3-7)] on linux2

[ some time later ]
Gnah, I just found a way so even I being a non-programmer (especially
regarding C) could test this ... using OpenSSH I verified that C
programs also suffer from this problem, it's not pythons fault.
Disregard question one above :-)

Thanks a lot
Bernhard


From cmg at dok.org  Fri Oct 15 14:41:29 2004
From: cmg at dok.org (Chris Green)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:41:29 -0400
Subject: Why does super take a class name as the argument?
References: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>
	<mailman.5013.1097856215.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87lle7j02u.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>

Shalabh Chaturvedi <shalabh at cafepy.com> writes:

> Derived classes *are* insulated from name changes of the base
> classes.  The class in super has to be the same as the class in
> which the super call is written (i.e. the one 'around' the super
> call),

That's what I meant to say. Sorry if I was unclear.
>
> [1] http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html

Thanks for the pointer ( to all ).  This was what I was looking for.
-- 
Chris Green <cmg at dok.org>
Laugh and the world laughs with you, snore and you sleep alone.


From ivospam at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 03:27:14 2004
From: ivospam at yahoo.com (Ivo Woltring)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 00:27:14 -0700
Subject: replacing batch file with python script
References: <417EF91F.929B1D69@shaw.ca>
	<1098840805.325388.93690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e8daeffe.0410262327.2bcb2d9d@posting.google.com>

"Sridhar  R" <sridharinfinity at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<1098840805.325388.93690 at z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>...
> Don't use exec family of functions. Use os.system.

Also consider os.popen


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct 26 13:31:43 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:31:43 GMT
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5513.1098804135.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
	<mailman.5513.1098804135.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3Svfd.3090$kM.900@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Richie Hindle wrote:
> Andrew Dalke contributed a program to the SpamBayes wiki that does
> exactly this:
> 
>   http://www.entrian.com/sbwiki/SpamBayesCuller
>   http://www.entrian.com/sbwiki/RecentChangesOfSpamBayesCuller

> You'll need to download and install the SpamBayes source code as well,

I got email about 6 months ago asking if it is okay to include my
sb_culler program with the SpamBayes source code.  I haven't checked
to see if that actually happened.

As written it's designed for a programmer to use.  You had to
edit code to change options.

I've added a few new features since then, like reloading the
good_emails file if there are changes.  Want to add another to
whitelist based on domain, and to remove emails with a given
subject, like "Sprava nebola dorucena".  Perhaps I'll update
the wiki afterwards.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 30 05:07:42 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 02:07:42 -0700
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <1099119170.7272.54.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <20041029230957.0C0A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<1099119170.7272.54.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <20041030000724.0C0D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 23:34 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
> > With all that said, if one /could not/ use GPL'd libraries from
> > commercial software, then nVidia and ATI would have lawyers knocking on
> > their doors for not GPLing their video drivers, as technically, the
> > nVidia drivers are derivative works of the Linux kernel.  Not being
> > privy to the inner workings of nVidia nor ATI, I will not guess how they
> > have managed to release binary-only drivers for linux, and will just say
> > that it is being done.
> 
> AFAIK there are no ATI binary drivers for Linux.  Those drivers are part
> of x.org, developed from ATI's specs.  The NVidia drivers are binary ad
> use the GPL'd wrapper approach.  The driver comes in two parts: the
> proprietary binary module, where all the interesting stuff happens, and
> a GPL-compatible shim between it and the kernel.

My mistake on the ATI drivers.


> Whether or not this is *really* GPL-compliant is still up in the air.
> Just because nobody complains about it doesn't mean it's legal.  I
> seriously doubt any of the kernel developers have any intention of
> "sending lawyers" to NVidia's door over it if it isn't, so the lack of
> action doesn't really prove anything other than it works for practical
> purposes ;)

Robert Kern mentions off-list that the "shim" that nVidia ships uses
kernel API calls to communicate with its driver, which Linus considers
an IPC mechanism, so it is really like using a service via some
arbitrary IPC mechanism (CORBA, SOAP, XML-RPC, etc.).

An mmap'd temporary file and a bit of work, and you too can wrap GPL
library in a high-speed multi-platform-capable shim for commercial use
at 95% of linked speed.  Not that I would condone such use, I'm just
saying that it is possible.

Now, to be the devil's advocate, I also pose the question publically:
what is the substantive difference between using an mmap'd file and
linking? A shared address space is created, data can be sent, received,
executed, etc.

Now, as Robert Kern and others have mentioned, none of it has been
tested in court (whether IPC is a sufficient separator), but as Cliff
says, "it works for practical purposes". However, I believe there should
be a set of rules for what one can and can't do in regards to linking vs
IPC, and how close they really are. Something that is agreed upon by
the authors of the GPL, perhaps forking it and calling it GPL+I (GPL +
Interfaces). Something like:

If you want to use a GPL+I library with your non-GPL code that you would
like to distribute, you must either get permission to use the GPL+I library
with your code from the original author(s)/rights holder(s), or write a
'wrapper' that is released under the GPL that either:
1. Links with the GPL+I library, but offers an interface via some form
of IPC that your non-GPL software can access (whose limitiations are
later explained).
2. Links with your non-GPL software, but accesses the GPL+I library via
some form of IPC (whose limitations are identical to case 1).

Then have a section of IPC limitations, etc...


 - Josiah



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 15 21:44:19 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:44:19 -0700
Subject: How can I get text of the body (payload) of an email?
In-Reply-To: <1097890188.684790.103490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1097890188.684790.103490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041015184350.09B4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Can anyone suggest a convenient way to get access to the raw message
> payload?

body = message.split('\r\n\r\n', 1)[1]

 - Josiah



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 30 04:42:59 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:42:59 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <698f09f8.0410292351.567514b8@posting.google.com>
References: <F_9gd.4865$kM.2575@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<698f09f8.0410292351.567514b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041030012817.0C13.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher) wrote:
> 
> Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message news:
> > What's wrong with the example Number wrapper I posted a couple days
> > ago to this thread?
> 
> How long with this take to run?
> 
> >>> a = RangedNumber(2**31, 0, 2**32)
> >>> a ** a

Considering that 2**31 is already a long int, you wouldn't get the
overflow error that is being argued about anyways.  You would eventually
get a MemoryError though, as the answer is, quite literally, 2**(31 +
2**31).

Certainly if one were to implement the standard binary exponentiation
algorithm in Python, it fails quite early due to violating the range
constraint.


> I think our inability to write a RangedNumber that piggybacks on
> Python's integers should be obvious.

I don't quite follow what you mean.  The provided RangedNumber uses
Python integers to store information as attributes of the RangedNumber
instances.


 - Josiah



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 26 09:36:30 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:36:30 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5484.1098768901.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>	<slrncnrn2n.afp.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<mailman.5484.1098768901.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <KeidnQ3n5ZBAz-PcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Cliff Wells wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 05:10 +0000, Sam Holden wrote:
> 
>>On 25 Oct 2004 21:25:07 -0700, kartik <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>integers are used in different ways from strings. i may expect file
>>>paths to be around 100 characters, and if i get a 500-character path,
>>>i have no problem just because of the length. but if a person's age is
>>>500 where i expect it to be less than 100, then **definitely**
>>>something's wrong.
>>
>>What if Noah is using your program?
> 
> Then Python clearly needs a special mode so that when a person's age is
> entered large numbers are allowed, but when counting animals it throws
> an exception if the number is greater than two.
> 
> Duh.

And what about Methuselah?  He's not going to be receiving his
social security cheques if he can't enter his age as higher than,
say, 2**7 (as our friend kartik would arbitrarily say...).  We
actually need 2**10 for his age, but now that's a little too
high so maybe we'd better just kill the old bugger off at 2**9
(hey, he's lived so long that shaving 208 years off his age
won't bother him, right?).

-Peter


From danu_milis at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 12:13:01 2004
From: danu_milis at yahoo.com (danu kusmana)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:13:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: failed to install PyOpengl-2.0.1.08 on Mandrake 10.0
Message-ID: <20041028161301.94353.qmail@web60604.mail.yahoo.com>

Im using Python 2.3.4 and Mandrake linux 10.0. I don't
know whats wrong when Im trying to install the
PyOpengl-2.0.1.08. I got the message:

gcc -pthread -shared
build/temp.linux-i686-2.3/src/interface/GLUT.o
-L/usr/lib -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/X11/lib
-L/usr/X11R6/lib -Lbuild/temp.linux-i686-2.3 -lGL
-lX11 -lXext -lGLU -lglut -lXi -lXmu -linterface_util
-o build/lib.linux-i686-2.3/OpenGL/GLUT.so
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lglut
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

I suspect it have something to do with the glut. Then
I tried to install glut-3.6 but problem arise again It
require libMesaGLU.so.3. I install the Mesa-6.2
everything ok. But the libMesaGLU still doesnt exist.
In the website it state that the packet doesnt include
the libMesaGLU anymore. but instead they use another
packed oss-openglu-20000925..rpm. But the packet
failed also to install becuse it require
libstdc++-libc6-1-1.so.2. I updated the gcc from 3.3.2
to 3.4.2 but the library required still doenst exist.

What should I do to fix all this problems????

Thanx

danu


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Mon Oct 18 23:39:26 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 03:39:26 GMT
Subject: Yet more SMTP
References: <cl1r6p$jah$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20041018233926.02938.00002204@mb-m11.aol.com>

Thanks for the reply, that link is down right now, but I'll give it a look
tommorow.  Getting technical support from AOL is like pulling teeth......geez. 
This guy was insisting that I should contact Yahoo about this.  How in the
world is Yahoo going to be able to answer my questions about the smtp server
that aol rerouted me too?


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 02:38:55 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:38:55 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <20041018133211.0A4B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <mailman.5131.1098126770.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glvhih.mackqd12vhs62N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<20041018133211.0A4B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <8C8685E8-2199-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>


On 2004 Oct 18, at 22:46, Josiah Carlson wrote:
    ...
>
> I agree with most everything you have said, though consider the pointer
> vs. value of C to define the semantics of the passing.  That is, if you
> get a pointer in C, it is by reference.  If you don't get a pointer, it
> is by value.

I disagree: you get the value of the pointer.  If you assign to the 
barename of the pointer, this has no effect on the caller.

void foo(int* x) {
     x = 0;
}

the fact that x is a pointer makes no difference whatsoever: the x=0; 
within function foo is just assigning to local variable 'x', without 
any effect on the caller, just as if the signature was '(int x)' 
instead.

"By reference" semantics, in e.g. Fortran, Visual Basic, Pascal, C++, 
..., are normally taken to mean that the function can do:
     x = 0;
i.e. assign to the barename of an argument, and thereby affect the 
caller.  In Fortran (traditionally) it's always that way (the language 
definition supports both value/return and reference semantics, with 
lots of strictures on what is semantically correct in order to ensure 
both mechanisms work; in practice, implementations for the last 30+ 
years have used references, 99% of Fortran programmers are unaware of 
the strictures, and get big surprises when an aggressive optimizer, 
taking advantage of the constraints the programmers routinely violate, 
turns their code into mush;-).  In Pascal, defining an argument in the 
signature as "x:integer" or "var x:integer" makes all the difference; 
in Visual Basic, the adjectives Byval and Byref do; in C++, the 
referencemarker ampersand ('int&x' in the signature); etc.

C has nothing like that.  You can explicitly take the address of 
something, you can pass (by value!) an address ('pointer'), you can 
dereference an address -- and these are the mechanisms you can use to 
get PAST the lack of byref parameters.  The workarounds in Fortran for 
the lack of byval parameters are sometimes even funnier: you see X+0 
passed as the actual argument, for example, or sometimes X*1, in the 
hope that this will make a copy of X and thereby preserve X from 
modification (the interested reader can study the Fortran 66 and 77 
manuals to see how this tricks have  fared, standardswise... compilers 
often are more accomodating than the standards, though in the Fortran 
world optimization is SO crucial that this need not be so...).
[[similar tricks in Python are using L[:], L+[], or L*1, to get a copy 
of L -- less forgivable in Python where list(L) does that cleanly, 
explicitly and legibly, of course;-)]]

>
> I also agree that everything is pure and explicit in both languages, it
> took me a few minutes mucking around with the interpreter my first time
> to understand how Python deals with the base types.
>
> I'm trying to point out that if you toss the standard C semantic
> definition of "pass by value" and "pass by reference", by merely
> pretending that the definitions have not been given in the history of
> computer science, and just look at how Python does actual name binding
> in namespaces/scopes, you can understand what Python does much better
> than to get into a "Python does pass by reference" vs. "Python does 
> pass
> by value" argument.

I agree.  But in C you cannot possibly do better than "C does pass by 
value, and assigns by value [with an unfortunate hack regarding arrays 
decaying to pointers]".  The concept of passing by reference is needed 
in other languages, but not in C (nor Python).  "Pass by value" 
normally (for most languages) implies a copy: once you realize that 
Python doesn't do implicit copies (the +[], *1 and [:] hacks 
notwithstanding, those ARE computing expressions after all) then 'pass 
by value' is in fact just as applicable to Python -- the difference is 
not in how arguments are passed, but in the fact that in Python a 
name's value is ALWAYS a reference to an object, so the value (that is 
passed) IS the reference (to the object), while in C variables are 
little boxes with their value inside, so the value that is passed is a 
copy of the box's contents (some of those boxes, known as pointers, 
hold addresses...).


Alex



From siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk  Tue Oct 19 09:01:22 2004
From: siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk (Sion Arrowsmith)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 14:01:22 +0100 (BST)
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sYc*iquxq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

Michael Chermside  <mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote:
>    http://www.mcherm.com/publish/2004-10-17/config.py

One thing that's really obviously missing from this as an interface,
possibly because you're seeing it as a parsing issue, is how does
config know what file (or files) the data is in? That is, given:

config.my_app.some_value

how is it going to map between "my_app" and a file name? I ask
through bitter experience of having to work around wx's "wxConfig
knows best" to supply alternative and shared configurations.

-- 
\S -- siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk -- http://www.chaos.org.uk/~sion/
  ___  |  "Frankly I have no feelings towards penguins one way or the other"
  \X/  |    -- Arthur C. Clarke
   her nu become? se bera eadward ofdun hl?ddre heafdes b?ce bump bump bump


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Thu Oct  7 16:31:57 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:31:57 +0200
Subject: 2.3.4 windows installer
In-Reply-To: <ck3hs6$dri$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <ck3hs6$dri$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <ck493s$c60$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> Is there an easy way to make the windows installer default to c:\Program 
> Files\Python23 instead of c:\Python23? I know that the path can be 
> changed manually at install, but that's a pain when you have 
> dozens/hundreds of machines.

Isn't a shared network installation an option worth considering in such 
a setting?

--
Vincent Wehren

> 
> Python stands out like a sore thumb when installed into the root 
> directory and users who aren't familiar with it think it's Spyware or 
> Malware of some sort and tend to try and delete the folder. We runs a 
> script that removes it from Add/Remove Programs and the Start Menu's 
> 'Programs' folder, but we'd like to not have the installer default to 
> the root dir... any suggestions???


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 30 04:32:32 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:32:32 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3064b51d.0410260928.1873a20d@posting.google.com>
	<1gme4mk.1rlz70v1cswu9zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3064b51d.0410291739.35cb9de6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gmgplx.4jmtifat3uheN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<beliavsky at aol.com> wrote:
   ...
> Were you using Fortran 77? Most of this version's limitations (rigid
> source form, no abstract data types, no dynamic memory allocation, no
> compile-time checking of procedure calls) were fixed in Fortran 90.

Although, during the '90s, I did lead several pilot projects to evaluate
alternative language possibilities for my employer of the time, I wasn't
the one tasked with the Fortran 90 evaluation pilot projects -- if I
recall correctly, the CTO himself, a staunch Fortran lover, rolled his
sleeves up and did the technical-leading himself for those; I was only
involved in the mop-up/assessment post-project phases.  By the time F90
compilers were mature, we were comparing against C++, and F90 came up
short.  Not sure what you mean by saying F77 had "rigid source form":
Fortran IV did, but F77 allowed leeway.


> . G95 is still under development, but it does compile a wide range of
> production codes, some listed at http://www.g95.org/g95_status.html .

As I mentioned, I and many others regularly use pyrex in production,
too.  By directly attacking pyrex as "not mature", yet recommending G95
as the open-source Fortran compiler without (in your previous post) even
a _mention_ that it's in a state strictly comparable to pyrex, I feel
you were being utterly unfair, some migth even say dishonest.  In both
cases (definitely so for pyrex; for G95 as well as I can divine, given
its huge, rambling, disorganized, nigh-unreadable pages) the main issue
is that not all language construct are fully implemented yet -- for
example, in Pyrex, you need to spell incrementing as
    x = x + 1
because Greg hasn't yet gotten around to implementing the terser syntax
    x += 1
and presumably Greg won't want to tag Pyrex as "1.0" until he has.  (And
G95 pages also mention the fact that some corners of the language are
not implemented, though I was unable to find clear and complete docs).

As long as the docs are clear, explicit, and readable about this, the
lack of some language construct need not stop you from using a tool in
production, the way crashes or bugs in code generation might (unless
your problem is such as to _need_ a missing construct, of course: if so,
then the fact that the construct is in the language but not implemented
in the tool is equivalent to the construct missing from the language, as
far as using that particular tool is concerned).

 
> My general argument is that Python advocates are attacking a straw man
> when they talk as if the main alternative to a high-level modern
> language like Python is good old C.

In many application areas, that _is_ the case: people are using lower
level tools such as C for a variety of reasons (I have already
recommended Raymond's "Art of Unix Programming"...).

> If they compare Python with C++
> with OOP and STL for general-purpose programming, or with Fortran 95
> for scientific computing, some of the "high-level" advantage of Python
> disappears.

I am familiar and experienced enough with C++ with OOP and the standard
C library (I don't know why people keep confusing that with a research
endeavor like SGI's STL: while STL was a crucial model for C++'s
standard library 10+ years ago, they are not the same thing -- if you're
looking for nonstandard C++ add-on libraries, Boost is preferable) to
address this part of your "general argument" knowledgeably.  Sure, if
C++ with all the trimmings is higher-level than C (and it is!), though
not quite as high-level as Python, then, tautologically, _some_ of the
level difference does go.  In terms of SLOCs per function point, the
definition of "language level", C may need 128, C++ 53, Python 21 (these
are Capers Jones' tables: he does not have Python there, but he does
have Perl and Python is quite similar levelwise).  So, the Python
advantage would be 6 times over C, but just 2.5 times over C++ (Fortran
77, 107; Fortran 95, 71; so Capers Jones is claiming these are higher
level than C but not nearly as high-level as C++).

(( Feel free to disagree with the tables -- I do, in many details -- but
at least they're a basis for discussion, and while the numbers are far
from perfect they's never off by as much as, say, a factor of 2.
Differently from heavy users of most other languages, heavy users of
Python do have vast experience rewriting production-level code from
other languages into Python (to gain flexibility and merge snippets
coming from elsewhere), and from Python into other languages (C, C++,
Objective C, Fortran, pyrex, Java), for optimization and contractual
obligations (some programming shops have contractual demands to deliver,
say, Java language sources: they do all their early development in, say,
Jython, then gradually recode each component in Java, with a working
system and solid unit, regression and system tests at each step -- it's
more productive than coding in Java right off, they judge).  This
practice, we feel, makes us pretty good judges of SLOC ratios between
Python and other languages, depending on kind of application, etc. ))

The advantage of going to Python, rather than C++, for a C programmer,
is that, while in Python he's going to find very different syntax, and
(like Java) different semantics of assignment statements, in Python he's
actually going to be operating under a _philosophy_ that's very close to
the one that made (and still makes!) C such a roaring success: trust the
programmer, don't stop the programmer from needing what needs to be
done, offer only one way to perform an operation, etc -- in fact, 4.5
out of the 5 points that the ISO C Standard identifies as "The Spirit of
C" (the point about speed/portability tradeoffs is the only one that
Python only meets about halfway).  People who detest that philosophy
will of course detest Python as much as they detested (and still detest)
C.  And yet Python proves that you can get a 6:1 language level ratio
(according to Capers Jones; much more, according to Pythonistas' vast
collective experience) _without_ abandoning simplicity and flexibility,
indeed _increasing_ those characteristics, and dynamicity too.


So: Python's language level is very high, and getting higher with such
innovations (wrt the time Capers Jones wrote his table 8 years ago) as
generators, type/class unification, custom descriptors and metaclasses.
Frameworks such as Twisted, Numeric, scipy, effectively increase that
level in important application areas (like Boost &c can do for C++).
The claim that very high level programming _combined_ with simplicity,
flexibility, and all the other good things above mentioned, is a huge
boost to productivity, keeps getting real-world confirmations.  And the
wonderful ease of interfacing Python, perhaps with pyrex help, to codes
and libraries in a huge variety of other languages, is crucial.  You
mentioned C++ and F95: I would not be surprised if the best _portable_
(across compilers and platforms) way of using both C++ and F95 in the
same program would be exactly to interface each of them to Python!-)


Alex


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Oct 13 17:21:56 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:21:56 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mo6q66oi0kj04@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmplmh.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mqr0rlj9h6r69@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4894.1097693029.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-00508C.14215613102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.4894.1097693029.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 "Clark C. Evans" <cce at clarkevans.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:58:14AM -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> | Antoon Pardon wrote:
> | >I find it better to let the coder decide what makes sense in his program
> | >and what not.
> | 
> | Which is the Perl philosophy.  Many people seem quite happy with Perl 
> | because of this TMTOWTDI attitude; personally, I prefer Python's clarity 
> | and simplicity.
> 
> On this list, that's damn near close to an ad hominem attack.
> 
> There are more than one way to do many of things in Python, and just
> about every "feature" that gets added is yet another way to do
> something that is already being done.   This doesn't stop features
> from being adopted, does it?  Every list comprehension has an
> equivalent version using a while-loop.  I could go on with examples,
> but your assertion is a leaky bucket, so why bother waste the space?
> Your arguments thus far have been "I don't use it, thus it probably
> isn't useful, and therefore, no one should be able to use it."  It's
> an uninformed position and frankly, not very helpful.

While I don't really agree that lambda ought to be jettisoned,
if that's the point in question, I do think that these are
legitimate questions.  The fact that list comprehensions for
example were adopted despite their redundance is indeed a
step backwards for the language as a whole, and if lambda were
being considered today for adoption it would need to be justified
in these terms.  "Let the coder decide" is not a good general
principle for language design, as suggested by counter-example above.

> I use lambda because it:
> 
>   - puts the definition of an expression right
>     where it is used;
> 
>   - doesn't require me to mint a name, or worry about
>     other possible calls to the same expression; and
> 
>   - is efficient use of vertical coding space.
> 
> All of these reasons provide clarity in maintaining code.  If you
> are working with a programming style that uses CPS, deferred
> execution, or similar mechanism with heavy callbacks or passing
> functions, you will understand the importance of the above features.

Fine, I have used it myself.  Since it's already in Python,
and in plenty of old code, there isn't much justification for
removing it.  But if it were time to clean Python up to conform
to the clarity and simplicity goals that one hears so much about,
lambda would be gone for sure.  Along with list comprehensions
and a boatload of gadgets.  If Python were a decent functional
programming language, lambda would work better and be a natural
if not very important part of the language, but that isn't the
case and it makes about as much sense as legs on a snake.  If
you really want a simple, clear language, that is.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From dr_burrito at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 16:14:32 2004
From: dr_burrito at yahoo.com (Fazan)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 13:14:32 -0700
Subject: wxPython - problem dynamically adding widgets?
Message-ID: <37f621d3.0410041214.305eb3e9@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to create a wxPython-based application with a list of
arbitrary widgets (in this case, progress bars).  I want my
application to dynamically add or delete widgets from the list based
on some user action.  I first tried using a BoxSizer, and dynamically
instantiated the new widgets and added them to the sizer at the right
time in my application.  This caused my app to hang every time.  Only
widgets which I created before displaying the main frame were working,
but subsequent widget creation caused the hanging behavior.

I've also played around with ListCtrl (with the LC_REPORT style) and
Grid objects to achieve the desired result with no success.  ListCtrls
allow text and images to be added; I had hoped to implement my own
progress bars (instead of using the Gauge class) by resizing images in
a list.  But the support for images in ListCtrls seems quite limited;
the image can only exist at the far left side of the list and is
limited to some fixed size.  In order to implement a progress bar I
would need more control over the placement and size of the image. 
Although Grids support some additional controls such as Choice and
CheckBox, they don't even support images and using a Grid seems
awfully heavyweight.

The sizer approach seems pretty straightforward but I can't figure out
why the app always locks up.  Anyone have ideas about how to solve
this?  TIA


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct  8 11:38:24 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:38:24 -0700
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted
	Data	Chunk Efficiently
In-Reply-To: <1glc4z2.kc2j86lfi22oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4546.1097207828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glc4z2.kc2j86lfi22oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041008083137.ED79.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> > Or even the included bsddb.btree database (remember to translate to/from
> > strings, open using bsddb.btopen() ).
> 
> But, given a bsdsb btree with, say, 10,000 entries in it (in virtually
> sorted order), how does one speedily say "get entries 4020 to 4030", for
> example?  That was the original poster's problem as originally posed.
> If you call somedb.set_location(4020), you learn that integer keys are
> only allowed for Recno and Queue DBs, not for BTree ones...
> 
> I think the crucial step (with current versions of bsddb) is to have
> btflags=bsddb.db.DB_RECNUM at creation time; then, say xx is the
> variable that's your database, xx.dbc.set_recno(4019) should position
> the cursor as required.  Sleepycat does warn that DB_RECNUM can degrade
> performance for some applications, though, so be sure to do some
> benchmarks if you want to do things this way.

I would hope that bsddb keeps track of tree location information in an
intelligent way, so even if it is slower, it still beats a flat text
file hands-down.

It would likely not beat a real dbms, but it all depends on if the
original poster finds that necessary.

 - Josiah



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 30 09:12:53 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:12:53 -0400
Subject: fcntl and FCNTL
In-Reply-To: <74b5ee0a.0410291907.3d73764f@posting.google.com>
References: <74b5ee0a.0410291907.3d73764f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <w4mdncnRG8DIDh7cRVn-gA@powergate.ca>

Omid Fatemi wrote:
> I followed discussion in the group about this problem:
> 
> ImportError: No module named fcntl
> 
> I found out there are two modules:
> FCNTL
> fcntl
> the first one is obsolete and shouldn't be used.
> But the second one is usable.
> 
> Unfortunately, there is no fcntl in my python installation (Python
> 2.3.3, I got it from python site for Windows). There is FCNTL.py which
> is just a warning message and some imports.
> 
> Am I missing some files here. How could I have access to fcntl module.

 From the docs in http://docs.python.org/lib/module-fcntl.html

"""Availability: Unix."""

I don't know if there's an alternative.  Presumably the archives
for the list would answer this clearly, since as you say others
have asked the question before.

-Peter


From moof at boof.moof  Thu Oct 21 02:23:04 2004
From: moof at boof.moof (Roose)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 06:23:04 GMT
Subject: Embedding Python in Windows tutorial?
References: <Pa4dd.15915$nj.2684@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<cl2n18$ltg$1@news.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <cBIdd.8437$6q2.503@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

Thanks a lot for the answers -- they were quite helpful.  Anyone else have
any links?

I still haven't gotten around to doing this, I might put it off since it
seems like more work than I would think... as I said I thought this was the
"canonical" thing to do and it would be pretty much a cut and paste job from
examples.

Does anyone else work with Python and C/C++ regularly?  I thought there
would be more experts here... or are people not using Windows?

Not to be rude, but it is a little disheartening that everyone jumps all
over that "warehouse" thread rather than something a little more mundane but
utilitarian... : )

Roose



"Daniel Dittmar" <daniel.dittmar at sap.corp> wrote in message
news:cl2n18$ltg$1 at news.sap-ag.de...
> Roose wrote:
>
> > 1. I heard Python23.dll is built with MS VC++ 6.  I am using .NET 2003
(VC++
> > 7.1).  Is this a problem?  I wouldn't think so since I am not statically
> > linking... but someone said the C runtime is different between the two?
> > When would that be a problem?
>
> - extensions compiled with .Net 2003 seem to run fine with Python 2.3
> - I've heard that Python 2.4 will use .Net 2003 anyway
>
> > 2.  Any sample VS.NET projects / boilerplate DLL code that loads
> > Python23.dll into the?  Sure this is probably pretty simple -- add an
> > include paths, add a DLL dependency... but I'm sure there is at least
one
> > gotcha and if I can avoid repeating other's mistakes, I'd prefer that.
>
> If you use the normal Python API, you link with the import lib
> python23.lib, which will load python23.dll. If you put python23.dll into
> the same directory as your application, everything should be fine.
>
> > 4.  The program in question has no installer -- it is an internal tool,
and
> > people simply download the binaries .exe/.dll's/etc. from a source
control
> > system.  Does that present any problems?  Is all they need is
Python23.dll
> > in their system dir, which is installed if you install Python?  But I am
>
> I suggest that you distribute everything Python together with you
> application. I found that switching to a new Python version is a hassle
> when you have to tell everyone to do the upgrade.
>
> - distribute python23.dll in the same directory as your application
> - distribute the Python standard lib as a .zip archive
>   -- use the script compileall.py to generate the .pyc files
>      for the Python lib
>   -- use the -d and -f options to set the source directory
>      in the .pyc files. It is irritating if you get a Python traceback
>      and the filenames look plausible, but don't exist. Something like
>      "PYTHONROOT/os.py" makes it clear that the python files comes from
>      the distribution.
>   -- zip all the .pyc files into an archive (.py are optional)
>   -- add that .zip file to your distribution
>   -- add <python>/DLLs/zlib.pyd to your distribution (needed to import
>      modules from .zip files)
>   -- in your application: add that .zip file to the module search path,
>      either by changing the environment variable PYTHONPATH or by
>      manipulation sys.path through the Python API
>   -- you can start simple by packing only the .py files. This will work,
>      but it will be a bit slower as Python has to compile the files
>      for every run of your application
>
> If you distribute Python together with your application, you should
> occasionally test that you have everything included:
> in the registry, rename
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/Software/Python/PythonCore/2.3. That way, your
> embedded Python won't be able to fall back on your installed Python.
>
> > going to need to write some Python wrappers for functions... does this
mean
> > I need to use distutils and all that?  One thing I didn't find clear is
that
> > distutils will "install" a module on your own machine -- but what do you
> > need to do to get it onto other's machines? (e.g. non-engineers who do
not
> > have compilers)
>
> Your wrapper functions are part of your application. You make them known
> to the Python runtime during your application, so there is no need to
> install them via distutils.
>
>  > One of my concerns now is that it will decrease the
> > debuggability of the application.  In a pure C/C++ app in VS.NET, it is
> > pretty simple to debug.  But now I will have a layer of Python in
between,
> > which could make it a big pain.  In general this is kind of an "extra"
>
> You certainly shouldn't try to debug through the Python code. Set
> breakpoints on all your extension functions. Once you reached Python,
> use 'go' to go right through it.
>
> You should also have the ability to report all exceptions in scripts
> complete with backtraces. This will help you now with debugging and
> later your customers with their own scripts.
>
> Daniel




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 04:35:40 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:35:40 +0200
Subject: look further down sys.path for extension module
References: <clod7k$m55$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<417fed58$0$605$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<clouel$en2$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <1gmd3ju.1hi28m7g3jym3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

vincent wehren <vincent at visualtrans.de> wrote:
   ...
>  > Alternatively, you could rebuild zlib.pyd to be named pyzlib.pyd. You
> > need to rebuild the code because you also need to rename the entry
> > function, and the name of the module inside the module itself. You
> > can then do
> > 
> > import pyzlib as zlib
> 
> Yes, quickly tried that, too. It still is registered in sys.modules as
> "pyzlib" - don't known if I expected that...

The merely local renaming should not accidentally cause multiple
repetitions of the module's loading if somewhere else the module gets
simply imported with 'import pyzlib', of course.  So, it's recoded in
sys.modules['pyzlib'] -- anything else would be astonishing.

Just add a further statement
    sys.modules['zlib'] = zlib
right after this import, if you want future 'import zlib' statements to
get 'redirected' to use the already-imported pyzlib instead.


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 02:24:30 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 08:24:30 +0200
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4231.1096844832.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl4hpy.10qm46owdpl47N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> Correct. Thanks for pointing out the difference between the def
> statement (which is executed) and the body of the function. This

You're welcome!

> difference is really important, and once you *really* understand it --
> as far as classes, functions and modules declarations work at runtime

If you avoid using the word 'declaration' in this context, and keep
talking about these as _executable statements_ (because that's what they
are!), I think you may help your readers' understanding even more.


Alex


From franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at  Mon Oct 11 03:30:03 2004
From: franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:30:03 +0200
Subject: Country specific date format
References: <vrrcm0dn0f9pom05a1tefjcr4hpgdcg7o0@4ax.com>
	<ck5tk3$jfn$02$2@news.t-online.com>
	<shrdm0lb4clgb4qe2ao1847s2jvm6pkl0b@4ax.com>
	<1yhad.18386$b5.906421@news3.tin.it>
Message-ID: <hgdkm0p5trdo7ip6g135d7l8d6405em65f@4ax.com>

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:09:17 GMT, Anna Martelli Ravenscroft
<anna at aleax.it> wrote:

>[...]
>> is there any possibility ( please WITHOUT the win32 extensions and
>> other extra package except for wxPython ;) )
>> to discover the date/time country specific string?
>> 
>> regards
>> 
>
>I would look at dateutil. It has some pretty nifty stuff for handling 
>timezones and locale-specific date issues...
>
>HTH
>Anna

Hello,

thanks,

did you mean "datetime" instead of "dateutil". 
(I couldn't find a dateutil)


-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From maney at pobox.com  Thu Oct 14 15:10:36 2004
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:10:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: list comprehension for splitting strings into pairs
References: <mailman.4781.1097619107.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckmivc$ftm$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> lst = ['1', '1:2', '3', '-1:4']
>>>> splits = []
>>>> for s in lst:
> ....    pair = s.split(':')
> ....    if len(pair) != 2:
> ....            pair.append(None)
> ....    splits.append(pair)
> ....    
>>>> splits
> [['1', None], ['1', '2'], ['3', None], ['-1', '4']]

> Basically, I want to split each string into two items, substituting
> None when no second item is specified in the string.  (As you can see,
> in my strings, the items are delimited by ':').

Ah!

>>> lst = ['1', '1:2', '3', '-1:4']
>>> [ (x.split(':') + [None])[:2] for x in lst] 
[['1', None], ['1', '2'], ['3', None], ['-1', '4']]

Handles both single-element and more-than-two-element strings.  Doesn't
crash on empty strings, but the result probably isn't useful:

>>> [ (x.split(':') + [None])[:2] for x in ['1', '1:2', '3', '-1:4', '']] 
[['1', None], ['1', '2'], ['3', None], ['-1', '4'], ['', None]]

You might also enjoy this variation

>>> [ (map(int, x.split(':')) + [None])[:2] for x in lst] 
[[1, None], [1, 2], [3, None], [-1, 4]]

Since I saw you mention wanting that later, I think.  Didn't see any
replies quite the same as this (but I didn't troll through the rest of
the spool looking for possible unthreaded replies).

-- 
One discharges fancy homunculi from one's scheme
by organizing armies of idiots to do the work.  -- Dennett


From hohn at hooknose.lbl.gov  Fri Oct 29 13:40:00 2004
From: hohn at hooknose.lbl.gov (Michael Hohn)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:40:00 GMT
Subject: AssertionError in pickle's memoize function
Message-ID: <yyo3bzx4e4w.fsf@hooknose.lbl.gov>

Hi,

under python 2.2, the pickle/unpickle sequence incorrectly restores
a larger data structure I have.

Under Python 2.3, these structures now give an explicit exception from 
Pickle.memoize():
    assert id(obj) not in self.memo

I'm shrinking the offending data structure down to find the problem
and provide an easily reproducible example, 
but maybe someone on the list could tell me under what general
conditions this assertion is expected to fail.

Thanks,
    Michael


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 03:32:26 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 00:32:26 -0700
Subject: Quixote Question
References: <mailman.4482.1097139450.5135.python-list@python.org>	<6f402501.0410071331.b4fa310@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4540.1097193283.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410072332.35499024@posting.google.com>

Ksenia Marasanova <ksenia at ksenia.nl> wrote in message news:<mailman.4540.1097193283.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> >  I think vanilla CGI may be
> > more suited to some of what I want to do. But then I'm tempted to try
> > and use Quixote in case it sparks my imagination - I'm not sure if
> > it's the right way of delivering my *content* though.
> >
> BTW, you can also deliver static pages through Quixote, by using 
> StaticDirectory class and passing directory name to the constructor. In 
> the latest Quixote version there is even 'index_filenames' option, for 
> specifying index file(s) in the directory.
> 
> Ksenia.

Thanks
I think I am going to have a play with Quixote. I think I've finally
got my head around what it can be useful for and there are definitely
some parts of my site it will be helpful for. It still leaves the
question of whether I'm able to install it on someone else's serevr
without a shell account of course.....

Fuzzy


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Oct 24 11:38:37 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:38:37 -0500
Subject: python and locales
In-Reply-To: <kMednflpXL_VIObcRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>
References: <kMednflpXL_VIObcRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <20041024153836.GD728@unpythonic.net>

See
    http://python.org/peps/pep-0263.html
and
    http://docs.python.org/ref/encodings.html

Does this answer your question?

Jeff
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From austin at maxtronic.com.tw  Wed Oct 20 03:58:45 2004
From: austin at maxtronic.com.tw (Austin)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:58:45 +0800
Subject: XRC and wxPython
Message-ID: <41761aa8@news.seeder.net>

I've seen the examples about xrc and wxpython. Most examples demostrate one
frame or dialog and use menubar or button to produce events. I met a
problem.
------------------------------------------------- 
sample.xrc
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<resource>
<object class="wxFrame" name="MainFrame">
<title>Simple Test</title>
<object class="wxButton" name="Button1">
<label>hi</label>
</object>
</object>
</resource>

close.xrc
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<resource>
<object class="wxDialog" name="DIALOG1">
<title>close</title>
<object class="wxButton" name="CloseButton">
<label>close</label>
</object>
</object>
</resource>

----------------------------------------------- 
sample is a frame, and close is a dialog. Assume that ex.(sample.py) is a
main program. When you click Button1, it will show the dialog ex.(close.py).
And you click close button in close.py, it will close but the main frame
still exists. Because most examples don't show how to open another dialog, i
try to write codes referenced by the examples but it's doesn't work. Could
anybody show me the examples used those two xrc files or some other useful
websites? Thanks a lot.




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Oct  6 04:11:56 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 06 Oct 2004 10:11:56 +0200
Subject: Python Patterns
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4162ef68$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tyfsm8sb703.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote:

> > This "state" pattern needs a clumsy internal state object in C++
> > but in Python we can just change the object's class directly,
> > which is a much more direct implementation of what the pattern
> > tries to achieve :-)
> 
> Right, good point.  In C++ you can do something closer with the Strategy
> pattern -- still one level of indirectness, but a consistent set of
> methods (embodied in the one strategy object) commuted as a whole.
> Assigning __class__ IS of course more direct, yes;-).

Isn't Strategy more like rebinding the methods of a class, rather than
rebinding the .__class__ of an instance ?


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Sat Oct 16 06:11:56 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 03:11:56 -0700
Subject: Why does super take a class name as the argument?
References: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410160211.474d5da4@posting.google.com>

Chris Green <cmg at dok.org> wrote in message news:<87wtxshvej.fsf at ion.xlipstream.com>...
> Good day,
> 
> I've done a bit of searching in the language reference and a couple
> pages referring the behavior of super() but I can't find any
> discussion of why super needs the name of the class as an argument.
> Feel free to point me into the bowels of google if this has been
> discussed to death already.

Others have already answered your question. I want just to point out
that there exists recipes to avoid retyping the class name: the first
of these is Guido's autosuper recipe. A very sophysticated one is this one:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/286195

I also wrote one of such recipes -;)

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/284528

          Michele Simionato


From benji at benjiyork.com  Mon Oct  4 00:04:45 2004
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 21:04:45 -0700
Subject: python connection to mssql from windows box
References: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434AD1@iron.ima.umn.edu>
	<mailman.4134.1096552901.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415e5970$0$26022$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <c45e6536.0410032004.70d1a571@posting.google.com>

"Graeme Matthew" <graeme.matthew at contrado.com.au> wrote in message news:<415e5970$0$26022$5a62ac22 at per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>...
> look at the ODBTP page I think ther eis a python wrapper for it

I haven't heard back from the ODBTP maintainer, so I've put up a
patched version on my site.  It's the latest official version with
some minor tweaks and a Python DB API wrapper.  See
http://benjiyork.com/odbtp.html for more info and mail me any
questions you might have.
--
Benji York


From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Oct 23 12:24:47 2004
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:24:47 -0000
Subject: Events and file polling in a C extension
References: <20041023102528.566.0.NOFFLE@ID-7776.user.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <1098548686.827773@yasure>

Quoth Dirk Thierbach <dthierbach at gmx.de>:
| I am writing an Python 2.3 extension in C, and I would like to create
| events (Tk-style) from an external source. I use a library that
| already parses the events into a C structure. This library can
| also supply file ids for poll() or select() calls (all this is on
| Linux, BTW). 

So what would you do after select() returns with I/O ready?  Can
the library then read and parse, and return the result?

| What's the preferred way to doing this? Can I register my own event
| handlers to the Python runtime, including the file ids to poll/to do
| select on, as in Tcl/Tk? Or do I have to create a new thread, and
| do a blocking select/poll-call inside the thread? If yes, how much
| attention do I have to pay to Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS/Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS?
| E.g. use them as often as possible, or only at cricitical points?
| How do I create a new thread with the C API, anyway? Or should I wrap
| that into a Python module that calls some auxiliary functions
| in the C module?

I would stay away from threads unless you have a strong need for
concurrency that isn't already satisfied with select/poll.  It seems
to me the simplest thing by far would be the arrangement I suggested
above, with the I/O dispatching in Python and the external C functions
responsible only for data transformation, but it depends a lot on
your application.  Python doesn't come with an event handler model,
except when used with say a graphic toolkit - so for example Python/Tk
will (I assume) look a lot like Tcl/Tk in this respect.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Oct  5 03:38:19 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 10:38:19 +0300
Subject: Miscellaneous personal prejudices (was: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL!
	- weekly Python news and links (Oct 4))
References: <cjsh6t$m6u$1@lairds.us> <36i932-lr5.ln1@lairds.us>
	<1tudnWqDWMKcpf_cRVn-qg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <du7y8il4ntg.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Dan" == Dan Perl <danperl at rogers.com> writes:

    Dan> "What do I have to say to get into the QOTW?"

Change your last name?

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From andrea.valle at unito.it  Sun Oct 24 09:14:34 2004
From: andrea.valle at unito.it (andrea valle)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:14:34 +0200
Subject: Is this group for newbies?
In-Reply-To: <DINed.193222$as2.133033@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
References: <DINed.193222$as2.133033@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <A62521DC-25BE-11D9-9519-0003939C968C@unito.it>

Tutor list is exactly what you need.
You can find the address on python.org -->  mailing list

Best


-a-

On 24 Oct 2004, at 15:02, ed18hg wrote:

> I'm looking for a Python newbie group. I don't want to get flamed by 
> asking
> in the wrong place.
> Thanks
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facolt? di Scienze della Formazione
Universit? degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle at unito.it



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Thu Oct 14 21:04:05 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:04:05 -0700
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <416e9bc5$0$23221$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4920.1097716237.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4925.1097734722.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416e9bc5$0$23221$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1097802246.20309.5.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 15:31 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-10-14, Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 01:44 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> On 2004-10-14, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> > Well, Unix itself was written in C,
> >> 
> >> Originally it wasn't, but recent versions are.
> >
> > 'Recent' meaning since 1974?  ;)
> 
> Yup.  I admit that was sub-optimal phrasing.  I should have
> said something more like "The first version wasn't but the rest
> were."

And I thought you were just showing your age ;)

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From gschweitzerwithoutthis at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 14:57:05 2004
From: gschweitzerwithoutthis at hotmail.com (Pepo)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:57:05 -0400
Subject: Any Job opportunity in South Florida?
Message-ID: <6jg9d.122470$as2.79492@bignews3.bellsouth.net>

Anybody knows about any job opportunities for Python pogrammers in South
Florida?

Thanks

Pepo




From matthias-dated at mteege.de  Sat Oct  9 09:54:17 2004
From: matthias-dated at mteege.de (Matthias Teege)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:54:17 +0200
Subject: tokenise a string
Message-ID: <86brfcq9nk.fsf@mut.mteege.de>

Moin,

I'm new to python. I try to build a "easy" search interface to a
database table in python. I have a input string like this:
"name=matthias;count>10" or this "location!=thisone". From this input
I try to build a SQL query like this: select * from tbl where
nme='matthias' and cnt > 10.

So I must parse the input, build tokens and map the fieldnames. Is
there a special modul which I can use or are the standard string
functions adequate?

Many thanks
Matthias
-- 
Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de
make world not war


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 13 17:19:59 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:19:59 +0200
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com><8f17f4bc.0410080849.51fbdcfa@posting.google.com><8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62@posting.google.com><a7a67196.0410082348.36fd45a@posting.google.com><8f17f4bc.0410091859.39a6c028@posting.google.com><416a53cd$0$16541$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr><8f17f4bc.0410111438.7d73466f@posting.google.com><416b8d92$0$7227$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr><8f17f4bc.0410121402.1873b7b7@posting.google.com><416cdf1e$0$8640$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<8f17f4bc.0410131245.3cebabd5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckk61t$qg7$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Ali" wrote:

>> You never set the text state to disabled, so no wonder you can still type text in...
>
> ok so I typed:
>
> import Tkinter
> def add_rows(w, titles, rows):
>    w.configure(state = 'normal')
>    for r in rows:
>        for t, v in zip(titles, r):
>            w.insert("end", "%s:\t%s\n" % (t, v))
>        w.insert("end", "\n")
>
> app = Tkinter.Tk()
> t = Tkinter.Text(app, state='disabled')
> t.pack()
> info = [['Ali',18],
>        ['Zainab',16],
>        ['Khalid',18]]
> add_rows(t, ["Name", "Age"], info)
> app.mainloop()
>
> This now shows the text but, will still let me edit the text in side! :(

when the state is set to normal, you can insert text into the widget, and
so can the user.  when the state is set to disabled, you cannot insert text,
and neither can the user.

now try setting the state to disabled *after* you've inserted the text.

</F> 





From noone at here.com  Fri Oct 22 17:01:30 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:01:30 +0100
Subject: Thanks Larry!
References: <clbnkp$245$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<XZ6dnX5F5L718uTcRVn-tQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <clbsak$fb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi Larry,

Thanks, perfect.

Malcolm




From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Fri Oct 22 23:13:14 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 03:13:14 GMT
Subject: Email attachments
References: <mailman.5344.1098481090.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20041022231314.29660.00006345@mb-m16.aol.com>

Thanks, I looked into TOP and it looks like I'll be able to handle that issue
satisfactorily with at least one, maybe many, but not all servers.  POP3 is not
looking good to me now, but with Yahoo what can you do....


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Tue Oct 12 18:11:13 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:11:13 +0100
Subject: Using os.system() and string concatenation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4772.1097613893.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <7a2229ee041012114353157c1d@mail.gmail.com>	<ckh9kr$q16$1@sea.gmane.org>	<7a2229ee04101212215fadcb18@mail.gmail.com>	<loom.20041012T221252-992@post.gmane.org>
	<mailman.4772.1097613893.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckhkq8$5j5$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Wayne Witzel III wrote:
> os.system("/usr/sbin/useradd"+ " -d " + user[0] + " -s " + user[1] + "
> " + user[3])
>  
> when I change os.system() to print .. it outputs just fine and I can
> copy and paste the results and they execute. Just using os.system()
> they do not execute unless I place the string in cmd variable first.
> 
> cmd = "/usr/sbin/useradd"+ " -d " + user[0] + " -s " + user[1] + " " + user[3]
> os.system(cmd)
> 
> This works fine.

This is very odd, Wayne, and somewhat unexpected. What happens if you 
replace /usr/sbin/useradd with /bin/echo (or wherever your echo command is):

 >>> import os
 >>> user = ["foo", "bar", "baz", "moo"]
 >>> os.system("/bin/echo"+ " -d " + user[0] + " -s " + user[1] + " " + 
user[3])
-d foo -s bar moo
0
 >>> cmd = "/bin/echo"+ " -d " + user[0] + " -s " + user[1] + " " + user[3]
 >>> os.system(cmd)
-d foo -s bar moo

As others have said, os.spawnv() is probably a better choice anyway...
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From chrisconnett at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 03:29:24 2004
From: chrisconnett at gmail.com (Chris Connett)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:29:24 -0400
Subject: fileinput module dangerous?
In-Reply-To: <slrncmr2an.kv6.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
References: <62e38ff3.0410122057.105c87ec@posting.google.com>
	<slrncmr2an.kv6.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <416f7c54$1@buckaroo.cs.rit.edu>

Jorgen Grahn wrote:
[...]
> 
> I can't see how there could be a reason. I'd welcome a patch.

OK, I've gone ahead and made a fix.  It makes use of os.tmpfile if it is 
available, but implements the same (now safe) behavior if it is 
unavailable through other means.

I also searched through old postings about this module, and went over 
various complaints.  I found that unicode awareness was missing and 
wanted, and since there is no other effective way to mimic it in client 
code, I added encoding support.  All my changes *should* be backwards 
compatible, which brings me to my next question.

As someone who has never posted a patch, what are next steps from here. 
  Is there a standard test suite that I need to run?  What about 
documentation updates?

This patch should be considered alpha quality, especially the encoding 
support, though if the module is used without specifying an encoding, it 
should work exactly as before.  Please beat on it, though do note that I 
haven't run any standard test suites if they exist, so bugs may not 
necessarily be obscure ones.  I will continue to run more tests myself 
in the coming days.

Note:
- Due to the buffering nature of fileinput, universal newlines only 
works when using an encoding whose StreamReader's readlines() method 
performs universal newlining.

--
Chris Connett
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From mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 26 23:34:02 2004
From: mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (StvB)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 03:34:02 GMT
Subject: RadioBox in wxPython
References: <417e0899@news.seeder.net>
	<mailman.5503.1098793300.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <KGEfd.35074$QJ3.3747@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Do I have to go to 2.4 in order to start using wx.Control, versus wxControl 
?

"Cliff Wells" <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:mailman.5503.1098793300.5135.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:19 +0800, Austin wrote:
>> Every time i use wxRadioBox, it will show the box.
>> I just want the options show on the panel. What could i do?
>
> Don't use a wx.RadioBox.  The box is a feature of that control.  Instead
> just use wx.RadioButtons and lay them out yourself in a wx.BoxSizer.
>
> Regards,
> Cliff
>
> -- 
> Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>
> 




From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 05:59:34 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 02:59:34 -0700
Subject: generating emails from Python
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410070159.1b9e670f@posting.google.com>

Is it possible, using email.MIMEMessage, to generate an email with
both HTML and plain text content, in such a way that:
1) it is displayed as HTML if the email client recognizes HTML;
2) it is displayed as plain text if the email client is HTML impaired?

I realize that the answer is most probably no, but one can always hope
...

      Michele Simionato


From francisl at aei.ca  Wed Oct 13 21:18:21 2004
From: francisl at aei.ca (Francis Lavoie)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:18:21 -0400
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <20041014010900.GB3025@unununium.org>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>	<864d3709041013162473ccf127@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041014010900.GB3025@unununium.org>
Message-ID: <416DD3DD.7040301@aei.ca>

Phil Frost wrote:

>On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 08:24:48PM -0300, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
>  
>
>>...
>>
>>Now, let me re-state your question in a broader sense. Is it possible
>>to write an OS using a language such as Python? Yes. But the resulting
>>OS will surely be different from Linux -- by design it would be a
>>completely different beast. Some parts would still be written in C and
>>assembler, because it needs to access the hardware, and also for
>>performance reasons. But an API could be devised to allow higher-level
>>functions to be written in Python, while calling the low-level
>>C+assembler stuff. But as I said, it's _so_ completely different from
>>anything else in use today as to make it pretty much a theorethical or
>>academic exercise with little practical use. I can't see a project
>>like that taking off, even if I would love to see it working.
>>    
>>
>
>I can state from first-hand experience that this idea is not too
>far-fetched. It is possible to enable Python to express device drivers
>and low level OS functions like multitasking with an amazingly small
>amount of C+asm; I'd say around 2000 lines, excluding the Python
>runtime. If Pyrex counts as not-C, then I bet it could be done in 500.
>
>The performance problems are a bit harder, but with a good JIT compiling
>VM the runtime performance of Python could theoretically come very close
>to C.
>
>I do agree though that there is little point in rewriting Linux in
>Python. The advantage in Python is its expressiveness, but by rewriting
>an existing system you gain nothing.
>  
>
unununium, except is name, look very amazing ... but we still have to 
wait to see a product.



From ml at dynkin.com  Wed Oct  6 11:28:27 2004
From: ml at dynkin.com (George Yoshida)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:28:27 +0900
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck12sl$2k52$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>

Andr? N?ss wrote:
> One thing I liked about Lisp was the ability to use the question mark
> (and the exclamation mark) in function names. I found this
> particularily useful when checking boolean properties of a object like
> for example myObj.isContextSet. It just feels so much more natural to
> write myObj.contextSet?
> 
> I also found it neat that destructive operations were clearly marked
> with !.
> 
> Is there anything preventing this from being possible in Python?

That will make Python more similar to Ruby.

--George


From grante at visi.com  Sun Oct 10 11:47:47 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 15:47:47 GMT
Subject: Please fix broken news<->list gateway.
Message-ID: <416959a3$0$5677$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

Could whoever is gatewaying this group to a mailing list PLEASE
fix whatever problem is causing Usenet posters to receive
bounce messages and out-of-office messages from subscribers to
your service?  

When I post an article to Usenet _I_DONT_CARE_ if your gateway
has problems mailing that article to somebody.  I DON'T WANT TO
BE NOTIFIED that somebody I've never heard of in Poland is out
of his office and that somebody else in Slovakia has an
over-full mailbox.

Even if I _was_ intentionally submitting articles to a mailing
list, I STILL wouldn't want to get those sorts of notifications.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Wait... is this a FUN
                                  at               THING or the END of LIFE in
                               visi.com            Petticoat Junction??


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Fri Oct 29 06:29:54 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:29:54 -0400
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
Message-ID: <41821BA2.40406@bellsouth.net>

The Fumigator wrote:

>Hi.
>
>I want to be able to create a persistent connection between an XML-RPC
>client and server... i.e. I want to be able to login once, carry
>out a number of calls and then logout rather than send login info for
>every call. 
>
>Is there a way to do this with the xml-rpc code in the standard library?
>
>Thanks in advance
>  
>

What do you mean by login, logout and login info?  Do you mean establish 
connection, close connection and <I don't know what would be equivalent 
for login info>?  Are you wanting a keepalive?  If so, I don't know of 
how to do that with the standard library.  If you've got some sort of 
login mechanism on your XMLRPCServer, I would assume you would have to 
pass back whatever "key" you received upon login per call....  But I 
guess it depends on what you mean.


Jeremy Jones


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 21:49:00 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 22:49:00 -0300
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <20041005235416.GB10507@performancedrivers.com>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<864d3709041003152471cf26fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041005215749.GA5891@burma.localdomain>
	<59e9fd3a04100516356ea1cc30@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041005235416.GB10507@performancedrivers.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904100518491ff837e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:54:16 -0400, Jack Diederich
<jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 10:35:01AM +1100, Andrew Durdin wrote:
> > On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:57:49 -0300, Gustavo Niemeyer
> > <niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > That's not true. The def statement is rerun every loop, no matter
> > > what parameters are used. One can check that by issuing:
...
<big snip>
...
> > >>> id(f.method1)
> > 9918464
> > >>> id(f.method2)
> > 9918464
> >
> > Here f.method1 and f.method2 share the same id, which is different to
> > that of f.method1...
> >
> > Can anyone enlighten me as to why this happens?
> 
> A temporary object is being made when you lookup 'method2' in 'f'
> Try assigning the value to a local variable and then running id() on those
> local variables.  The id()s should remain stable. What you are seeing is
> just a fluke, the same id gets used and then scrapped and then used again.

Check this (from the same code snippet you've written), running on my
PC with 2.3:

>>> id(f.method0)
20474736
>>> id(f.method1)
20474736
>>> id(f.method2)
20474736
>>> f.method0.im_func
<function method0 at 0x01733BF0>
>>> f.method1.im_func
<function method1 at 0x01733AB0>
>>> f.method2.im_func
<function method2 at 0x01733330>

I think this is because methods are now implemented as descriptors,
and as such, are not required to return stable id values as one would
expect. The im_func entry is clearly different, even if first part
(the id() listings) seems to corroborate your findings.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 03:43:27 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:43:27 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
   ...
> >> I'd like to be able to use a string as an integer without an explicit
> >> coerion on my part for example.
> >
> >
> > NO!  Don't do that.  Bad code.  Subtle errors.
> >
> > Try Perl or Ruby instead.
> >
> Now your encouraging me not to use Python?

If you require a feature that Python does not have, never had, never
will, and which Pythonistas consider horrible from all points of view,
it would be unwise to encourage you to use Python: your desire can be
satisfied by languages designed with completely different criteria,
apparently criteria fitting in better with your desire.  Andrew was
wrong about Ruby -- it's a well-designed language, so the feature you
desire is of course not there -- but Perl _does_ have that feature you
desire, and 20 tons more, so you may be happier with it than with either
Ruby or Python.

((Ruby actually allows you to change behavior of built-in objects, so
you may make addition behave like subtraction, or automatically coerce
operands, or whatever else -- such excessive power in Ruby is exactly
the number-1 reason I use Python instead, but since many questions you
posed may be seen as hankering for just this kind of excesses, then you
might like this aspect -- Perl lets you reach even deeper down into the
bowels of the language and perform any level of hacks, google for lingua
latina perligata to see an example)).

> No, no, I want the C speed.

Then use C: no other portable language (including C++ when properly
used) quite matches C's speed across the board.  Good programmers
realize that "premature optimization is the root of all evil in
programming" and choosing a language based on the speed of its
implementations is the ultimate _premature_ optimization, of course;
they code in a powerful high-level language, then, iff more speed is
needed in some (typically tiny) corner of an application, recode that
part, only (e.g. in pyrex, a mostly Python-like language which
interoperates smoothly with Python and does "compile down to C").  If
you don't need portability, C's speed isn't optimal anyway; psyco (a
just-in-time optimizer for Python) can sometimes beat C by going
directly to machine language (but it only works for intel and compatible
CPUs, not for example for the PowerPC chips used in Apple's Mac
computers -- that is the downside, of course).

> > Why not just use Ruby?  It seems to fit your search criteria
> > much better.
> 
> Because Python is...well...more Pythonic.  I much prefer it (esp. 
> whitespace).

I suspect that with the same tricks used in 'lingua latina perligata'
you could make Perl use whitespace like Python, while keeping deeper
semantic aspects, such as the ability to add integers and strings, which
you appear to keenly desire.


Alex


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Oct  1 14:16:43 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:16:43 -0400
Subject: __author__
In-Reply-To: <-tidnddkYpHECMDcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
References: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>	<VtydnQODWZ6x78DcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>	<10lqsl4ma3pq33@corp.supernews.com>	<PMadnSzsW4mcEMDcRVn-qA@powergate.ca>	<cjk44b$294$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<-tidnddkYpHECMDcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <415D9F0B.6020904@rogers.com>

Peter L Hansen wrote:
...

> I suspect a majority of modules actually use VERSION in preference
> to __version__, maybe because many authors didn't interpret the
> PEP8 comment as widely as some did.

I'd actually be suspicious of that suspicion, I can't recall every 
seeing VERSION used, while __version__ is something I've seen time and 
time again.  Those times I've wanted to check an installed package's 
version I've always used

import package
package.__version__

in the interpreter.  Never even occurred to me to use VERSION (and it's 
never shown up in a dir() of a package when I've wanted to do this (that 
I can recall)).

> (I've tended to use VERSION, I believe, but I'm moving towards
> using a build.xml file containing a variety of meta-information
> for the entire package, rather than an embedded constant.)

Ah yes, much easier to work with ;) :

    import package
    if [int(i) for i in package.__version__.split('.')[:2]] > [2,3]:
       blah()

versus:

    import package
    tag = findVersionTag(parseXMLFile(findXMLFile( package )))
    if (findMajorVersion(tag),findMinorVersion(tag)) > (2,3):
       blah()

Just teasing, you know I believe that XML is the solution to all 
problems in the universe which can't be addressed *directly* with Java 
;) .  As long as you're exposing APIs that mean client libraries never 
have to do the actual finding and parsing of the XML file, having your 
"get version" API integrated into your package-management code can be 
very useful for keeping them in sync.

Still, __version__ is a pretty simple API...

Smile!
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From akhavan_mohsen at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 04:04:32 2004
From: akhavan_mohsen at yahoo.com (m)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:04:32 -0000
Subject: Module directory
Message-ID: <ckvteg+vb32@eGroups.com>


Hello ,How are you I write a module as you see :

# Fibonacci numbers module
def fib(n): # write Fibonacci series up to n
a, b = 0, 1
while b < n:
print b,
a, b = b, a+b
def fib2(n): # return Fibonacci series up to n
result = []
a, b = 0, 1
while b < n:
result.append(b)
a, b = b, a+b
return result

the tutorials tells me to insert this module in the current 
directory I couldn't find the current directory ,where we should put 
our modules?
Sincerely yours Mohsena







From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Oct 13 10:59:04 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:59:04 +0200
Subject: Secure Python code - volunteers for code review?
In-Reply-To: <20041012205021.091B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <1097637663.543580.126100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<20041012205021.091B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041013145904.GB3223@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 08:52:31PM -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> You can save yourself many concerns by encoding your data in some
> fashion that cannot be understood by the database to mean anything.
> Hex works well for that.

Looks like overkill to me. If you let the DB-API do the quoting (by
providing both SQL statements and parameters to the execute method,
which he does), you're on the safe side IMO.

Using TEXT and VARCHAR fields for emails is the way to go IMO. No need
for any fancy BLOB/BYTEA column types, because emails cannot contain
chr(0) anyway. If you want to search and/or compare, then you should
be aware of possible charset issues, though.

-- Gerhard


From thorsten.reichelt at urz.uni-heidelberg.de  Mon Oct 25 07:52:19 2004
From: thorsten.reichelt at urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Thorsten Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:52:19 +0200
Subject: collision detection and penetration depth
Message-ID: <0jopn01agpcmadln9btclb6m4klh0venmp@4ax.com>

Hi,

I'm involved in a research project on spatial prepositions. In that
project we use very simple, static 3D maps that are represented in a
tiny subset of x3d enriched with some few linguistic information.
Until now, we home-brewed all 3D-related calculations for two reasons:
First, we thought we'd get away with pretty basic and simple stuff
throughout the project. Second, we didn't detect even one Python
module that would support x3d data input. 

But now we do need an exact collision detection and penetration depth
calculation algorithm that performs on a given pair of polyhedra.
Performance is not important, it obviously needn't perform on a
dynamically changing scene and if the algorithm doesn't interface with
x3d natively, no problem either. 

So far, I've been looking into the enhanced GJK and the FreeSOLID
algorithms. But I must admit that the math behind them both is beyond
me as is, unfortunately, the amount of c/c++ involved. My knowledge in
c is rusty at best, and, being a windows user, my knowledge in
building anything from c sources isn't much better. I had no luck in
compiling them using MSVC++ or mingw (cygwin works, but makes it
dependant on the cygwin1.dll).

So, my questions are: Is there an existing Python module that offers
exactly what we need? If not, what should be my course of action: 
1. Try to get a working .exe out of the FreeSOLID package (it has some
sample apps) and passing args on command line?
2. Try to reproduce the needed code in Python (without really
understanding what I'm doing *ouch*)?
3. Try to make the FreeSOLID functions usable in my Python scripts?
(This would be embedding/extending, right? Haven't done that before,
either. And it seems there's a lot of c involved again.)

Okay, hope I didn't give too much unnecessary information,

Thorsten Reichelt


From loritsch at gmail.com  Sat Oct 16 03:32:23 2004
From: loritsch at gmail.com (Michael Loritsch)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 00:32:23 -0700
Subject: passing a socket to a spawned process.
References: <5d00592f.0410110923.2bb2b1ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4761.1097598633.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e253918f.0410152332.2c1114b6@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.4761.1097598633.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > Is it possible?  In the parent process, I have a socket that binds,
> > listens and then accepts new connections (which creates new sockets in
> > the process).  I want to be able to pass some of these new sockets to
> > a spawned process.  Is it possible, and if so how?
> > 
> > Any help is much appreciated!!
> 
> As someone has already mentioned, if you have the socket before the fork,
> you will have the socket after the fork.
> 
> 
> I had been working on a general file descriptor passing mechanism for a
> few weeks in May, until I gave up.
> 
> From what I was able to work out, it is not possible in Windows.
> SunOS 5.8 has no issues, and will work almost out of the box (pure
> Python) with the right incantation (I have it somewhere if you really
> want it).
> A few constants are missing from the Linux fcntl.py, so this is not
> really possible unless you are willing to patch your kernel and Python.
> 
> Googling for the terms: passing file descriptors Python
> will get you the list of articles/research that I looked at.
> 
> One of those links has source code for the C struct usable with a BSD
> for making this happen.  Generally though, you can only pass file
> descriptors (sockets) across a UNIX domain socket, or sometimes a pipe
> (make it before you fork).
> 
> 
> Good luck.
>  - Josiah


Passing sockets to spawned processes is also possible in Windows, but
tricky.

While I have never passed a socket between python processes, I have
passed a socket handle from a python process to a Windows binary. 
Using the win32api extensions packaged with the ActiveState
distribution, one should be able to pass the socket between python
processes just as well.

The basic pseudo-code for doing so is as follows:

Parent process:
1) Obtain socket connection in parent server process from a client
process.
2) Obtain Windows process id -> use win32api.GetCurrentProcessId()
   - This process id will later be sent to the child process.
3) Spawn child process, obtaining a pipe to child_stdin -> use one of
the os.popen functions.
4) Using child_stdin pass parent process id (obtained in 2) to the
child process.
5) Next, using child_stdin pass over the socket file id, using
socket.fileno().

Now the child process should have everything it needs to listen on the
socket.

Child process:
1) Read parent process id from stdin.
2) Read socket file id from stdin.
3) Obtain a handle to the parent process using the process id -> use
win32api.OpenProcess().  This handle will be needed in the next
call...
4) Turn your socket file id into a socket -> use
win32api.DuplicateHandle().
   - hSourceProcess is the handle obtained in 3
   - hSource is the file id

You are now done, and should be able to read data on the socket in the
child process!

Regards,

Michael Loritsch


From greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com  Wed Oct 20 16:07:17 2004
From: greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:07:17 -0500
Subject: Setting Environment Variables
Message-ID: <031301c4b6e0$67100850$054b12ac@D18SYX41>

Hello-

I am running python 2.3. on an HP-9000 box running Unix and have a POSIX
script that sets up my production environment.  I would like to run the
script from inside a python routine and pick up the environment variables
but am having trouble getting it done.  Suppose the script is called
setprod.  How can I call this from inside a python script then pick up the
env's later in my program?  I've tried os.system ('setprod') and
os.system('. setprod'), but neither seemed to work.

Thanks for your help,
--greg

Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 27 20:48:00 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:48:00 GMT
Subject: Equivalent of Javascript Bitwise Operators
References: <6f402501.0410270304.5329539c@posting.google.com>
	<418030d0.944192737@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <418040f3.948323827@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:00:32 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
  "32" while thinking "64"
[...]
>
>(A 32-bit positive number with zeroes in the sign bits has to be a long unless
>you have a 32-bit machine. The unification is trying to get away from that platform
            ^^
I meant 64. I should have said >32 I suppose ;-)

Sorry if any confusion.
 
Regards,
Bengt Richter


From davep at dpawson.co.uk  Wed Oct  6 02:06:15 2004
From: davep at dpawson.co.uk (Dave Pawson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:06:15 +0100
Subject: Python Patterns
In-Reply-To: <1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4162ef68$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1097042775.3668.5.camel@homer>

On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 22:56, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Yep -- I've been writing about DPs with/for Python for years now (that's
> the invariable background to almost all of my conference talks &c, check
> most of them out at www.strakt.com), and one day (once I'm done doing
> 2nd editions of cookbooks and nutshells;-) I hope to write a book about
> that 

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a wiki to collect them on Alex!

-- 
Regards DaveP.




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 29 21:33:28 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:33:28 -0700
Subject: py2exe and window with info about error
In-Reply-To: <el22e9rn34iw.dlg@cokolwiek.pl>
References: <el22e9rn34iw.dlg@cokolwiek.pl>
Message-ID: <20041029183029.0BFB.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Krzysztof Ksi??ek <mr_rysiu at go2.pl> wrote:
> As almost totally newbe, I have written a simple script and I'm proud of
> it ;-) It connects to ftp server and uploads some files. Kind of backup.
> I've compiled it with py2exe and put it in autostart.
> When something is wrong (in example, I'm not connected to the net), it
> opens a window with some information about error and exact location
> where I can find log.
> How can I get rid of this window? I'd like to have a log file, but I
> don't want to see a popup during XP startup.

[snip setup.py]

So what you are saying is that you wrote an application that is run
during startup, and on failure, you get a dialog that pops up to tell
you that a failure has occurred, and you want to get rid of the dialog.

First questions: how is this dialog being brought up?  Are you making it
happen with some sort of GUI toolkit (like wxPython or tk)?  Is it
automatically happening if your script raises an exception?  Give more
information.


 - Josiah



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 16 13:35:06 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:35:06 -0400
Subject: pyc files located elsewhere?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5052.1097941983.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <m3vfdasuvz.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
	<mailman.5052.1097941983.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <X7ednccGLPpVxuzcRVn-3A@powergate.ca>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> I don't know if it is possible to automatically write to a different
> path, but I /think/ one can /turn off/ writing .pyc files, but it would
> necessarily make running the script slower (you don't get cached .pyc
> files, so every import requires a py->ptc compilation).

Just to clarify (and I don't know turning that feature off is really
possible, so maybe it's a useless point), but not *every* import will
require the compilation.  The first import of any given module will
require the compilation, each time you run the application.  If a
module is imported fifty times, all but the first just retrieve
the module from sys.modules, same as normal.

(Is what you describe really possible?  I've never heard of it.)

-Peter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 29 14:41:08 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:41:08 -0700
Subject: names of parameters as string
In-Reply-To: <ECA98BE9-29C7-11D9-AA85-0003939C968C@unito.it>
References: <85r4o09vlod3900cen8oaksdum7sgt26ee@4ax.com>
	<ECA98BE9-29C7-11D9-AA85-0003939C968C@unito.it>
Message-ID: <20041029113634.0BDF.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


andrea valle <andrea.valle at unito.it> wrote:
> 
> Richie thanks a lot, it works perfectly.
> Anycase, I don't know exactly what's happening.
> Could you be so kind to comment the code?
> (or to point to some docs: I wasn't able to found the refercence. I 
> found func_code before writing to the list, but not the method you 
> invoke)

> On 29 Oct 2004, at 18:18, Richie Hindle wrote:
> > You can do it like this:
> >
> >>>> def foo(foo_param1, foo_param2):
> > ...   foo_local = foo_param1
> > ...
> >>>> code = foo.func_code
> >>>> print code.co_varnames[:code.co_argcount]
> > ('foo_param1', 'foo_param2')


He's not invoking any method explicitly.  foo.func_code.co_varnames is a
tuple of names in the local scope of the foo() call.  The first
foo.func_code.co_argcount entries are the argument names of the function
call.


 - Josiah




From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 15 14:54:04 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 21:54:04 +0300
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
References: <mailman.5015.1097859379.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7655b3k6y.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <du7wtxr24oj.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Ville" == Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> writes:

    Ville> def dictget(d, key):
    Ville>   if key in d: 
    Ville>     yield d[key]
    Ville>   return

After putting down the crack pipe, I realized you can also do

def dictget(d,key):
    if key in d: 
        return [d[key]]
    return []

which is slightly less clever/cute. Too lazy to compare performance
right now.


-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 29 03:34:31 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:34:31 -0700
Subject: Data::Dumper for Python
In-Reply-To: <87654u80ge.fsf@ask.g.aas.no>
References: <slrnco2d8k.kgh.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<87654u80ge.fsf@ask.g.aas.no>
Message-ID: <20041029001920.0BB4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Gisle Aas <gisle at activestate.com> wrote:
> Data::Dumper will automatically show instance variables of your
> objects and recurse down into their representation.  pprint does not
> do that.  Because of this I find pprint quite useless (at least as a
> replacement for Data::Dumper).

Python's pprint is a fairly simple little module.  A reasonably
experienced Python programmer could probably toss off a clone of it in a
weekend if given a description of it.

With that said, pprint only 'beautifies' lists, tuples and dictionaries. 
If one wants something that does more, the source for pprint is readily
available in any Python distribution, to be customized to print
arbitrary class attributes as you (or someone else) finds necessary.

I would imagine that the reason why such an addition was not already
made is because textual representations of objects are not necessarily
round-tripable via eval(repr(obj)) (which has been mentioned before),
and a pprinted representation of an arbitrary user-class (as would be
presented by an altered pprint) is almost certainly not round-tripable
via eval(pprinted_representation(obj)).

 - Josiah



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  1 02:34:33 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 02:34:33 -0400
Subject: python vs c#
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>

Jan Dries wrote:

> Bengt Richter wrote:
> [... ]
> 
>>I almost posted a similar comment ;-) OTOH ...
>>How many relevant points do you need to start a debate?

Well, terrific. Now I get to talk about one of my pet peeves. A friend 
just gave me a bumper sticker which, as a true (but hopefully liberal) 
pedant I had real trouble with. It reads "Some village in Texas is 
missing their idiot", and the reason for my perplexity was, while I feel 
the sentiment it expresses is admirable (though perhaps mistaken: I only 
wish George W Bush *were* as stupid as he manages to appear), I have to 
take issue with the grammar used to express it.

This particular pickle is a disagreement of number: since there is only 
one village, the correct slogan should be "... is missing its idiot". If 
you thought it was "... it's idiot" then take two demerits and refrain 
from posting on c.l.py for 48 hours.


>>How would you answer that question?
>>
>>A few is enough?

Correct.

>>A few are enough?

Wrong. "Some few are enough" might be acceptable. If there's only one 
few then the number of the verb has to agree with he number of the noun, 
so they should both be singular.

>>A few relevant points suffices, or a few relevant points suffice?

The latter, again to ensure agreement of number.

>>A small number suffices, or a small number suffice?

The former, again for the same reason.

>>A dozen is sufficient?

Indeed it is.

>>A dozen are sufficient?

This is a difficult call, because their is an implied subject of 
discourse. Technically I'd still insist that "A dozen eggs is 
sufficient" is the more correct, but I might let you get away with "a 
dozen eggs *are* sufficient" on the grounds that there the eggs (plural) 
are the subject rather than the dozen (singular).
>> 
>>I suspect that there are some semantic subtleties at work. 

There certainly are. And one of the frustrations of living in America id 
watching those semantic subtleties dying if neglect at the hands of 
people who simply don;t realize that teaching people to *speak* 
correctly is teaching them to *think* correctly. I'm actually quite a 
visual thinker, but ultimately I believe that most of our intellectual 
product is the result of an internal, verbal, dialogue.

>>I.e., when you focus mentally on the few points as a single
>>collection, the singular forms feel right, but when you focus on 
>>the few points as separate entities, plural forms feel right.
>>Thus you want the verb (e.g.,is/are) to agree numerically with
>>_some entities_, or with _a collection_, according to your focus.
>>I think some sentences can be read either way, depending on which
>>way your attention is directed (e.g. by word order and discourse
>>context etc.) "A few" can work as noun or adjective, it seems.
> 
A lot depends on how pedantic I'm feeling. As I said in an earlier post 
this week, I'm much more prepared to let people break the rules when I 
think that they realize they *are* breaking the rules. I have less 
patience with those who either don't know (sad) or don't care 
(inexcusable) about the rules.
> 
> IIRC from back when I was in school (long time ago), both forms are correct.
> At least in Dutch. Strictly spoken it should be "a few is enough" or "a
> number of people has died".

Well that's Dutch for you. In English (as opposed to American, where 
pretty much anything goes) "A number of people *have* died" is correct, 
because the people died, not the number.

 >     But the plural form is also accepted, and it is
> called (with an expensive Latin term) "constructio ad sensum", i.e. you
> conjugate the verb in accordance with what the word represents, rather than
> with what it grammatically is. 
> 
Ultimately, language is intended to serve the purpose of communication, 
and we shouldn't be too upset to see it mangled as long as it serves 
that purpose. But when I hear politicians speak in sentences that don;t 
even make sense (and hear rooms full of people applauding them, making 
it obvious that no critical thought intervenes), *then I start to get my 
dander up. There'll be a special room in hell for people who don;t 
understand that language is *the* critical component of thought.

> Regards,
> Jan
> 
good-heaven-is-it-really-that-time-ly y'rs  - steve

PS: The real joke is the mess that my recalcitrant fingers make of the 
pristine thoughts that they must so clumsily express. The security 
community describes my typing style as "excessive use of backsapce". 
Anyone reading what I type might be forgiven for thinking me illiterate, 
so on the grounds that "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw 
stones" I try to avoid taking issue with the common-or-garden mistakes, 
since generally the world is kind enough to keep quiet about *my* 
inadequacies.



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Oct 29 10:32:57 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:32:57 -0500
Subject: Real-time graphs
In-Reply-To: <3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>
	(pynode@centrum.cz's message of "29 Oct 2004 02:02:42 -0700")
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
	<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m31xfh8uhy.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "MJR" == MJR  <pynode at centrum.cz> writes:

    MJR> Need to display data read from telemetry systme. Data might
    MJR> change in order of 1000/s. Not every sample will be
    MJR> displayed, but still need something close to 100sps --

Hmm, I assume sps means samples per second?  I was thinking about
refresh rates (frames per second) above, which is a different
question.  So the next question is, what kinds of refresh rates do you
need?

I wrote a little test script in matplotlib that randomly generates
1000 x,y points and displays them.  It can do about 12 frames per
second on my system (GTKAgg backend on a 3GHz P4 running linux).  With
only 100 points being plotted per frame, I get 40 FPS.  For more
complex plots, eg those which include images, or for other matplotlib
backends, this will be slower.

Here is a demo script - replace the random_data with your real data
and you're off to the races.  Note that matplotlib comes with a number
of examples for animations and dynamic images in the examples
subdirectory of the src distribution, or at
http://matplotlib.sf.net/examples

#!/usr/bin/env python
"""
Dynamically update line data
"""
import sys, time, os, gc
import matplotlib
matplotlib.use('GTKAgg')
from matplotlib import rcParams

from matplotlib.matlab import *
import gtk

fig = figure(1)
a = subplot(111)
def rand_data(N=100):
    x = arange(N)*0.001
    y = rand(N)
    return x,y

x,y = rand_data()
line, = plot(x,y,'-')


manager = get_current_fig_manager()
cnt = 0
tstart = time.time()
def updatefig(*args):
    global cnt, start
    x,y = rand_data()
    line.set_data(x,y)
    manager.canvas.draw()
    cnt += 1
    if cnt==50:
        print 'FPS', cnt/(time.time() - tstart)
        return gtk.FALSE
    return True


cnt = 0

gtk.idle_add(updatefig)
show()





JDH






From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct  7 06:54:19 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 06:54:19 -0400
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
In-Reply-To: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <DaKdnbspTNXGvfjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> Ok so this is really an HTTP question... but I'd far rather ask it
> here !! If I don't get an answer I'll have to try elsewhere I guess
> :-(
> 
> I'm developing a simple web user statistics program and I'd like to
> gather information like number of pages a user views per visit. This
> way I can distinguish between number of visits and number of page
> views. 
> 
> Assuming that each visitor will have a unique IP address is probably
> not 100% accurate but will have a reasonably low margin of error !! Is
> there any reason not to use this approach ?

Depends on your user base, I guess.  If I expected many visitors
from corporate environments, I'd not think this approach would
have a "reasonably low margin of error".  Almost any such
environment will have a firewall and masquerade multiple users
as the same address.

If you used this approach but made sure to have a reasonably
short timeout before you discarded the address information, say
about ten minutes of "no access" from the address, then you
would be less likely to mix up multiple users from the same
site accessing your web pages in quick succession.

You could also try setting a cookie to help track them, just
within a session, and I suspect most corporate environments
still have basic cookies turned on...

-Peter


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Mon Oct 18 13:41:44 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:41:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<cl0umu$kdm$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <cl0v8o$8a4$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Michael Hoffman <m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote:
...
> With pass-by-value, the memory location of a would be different than the 
> memory location of i. However, since Python is pass-by-reference, it 
> remains the same. <wink>

The memory location of the object is the same; the memory location of
the reference is different.

> Alex is right that trying to shoehorn Python into a "pass-by-reference" 
> or "pass-by-value" paradigm is misleading and probably not very helpful. 
> In Python every variable assignment (even an assignment of a small 
> integer) is an assignment of a reference. Every function call involves 
> passing the values of those references.

I've given up expressing my opinion on the matter.  Everyone here
seems to have a different notion of what "pass-by-reference" and
"pass-by-value" mean.  It's funny--I've never run into trouble with
these terms before seeing these discussions on C.L.Py.


From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Tue Oct 12 11:23:10 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:23:10 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <mailman.4747.1097588259.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416bf6de$0$1555$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>

<exarkun at divmod.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:mailman.4747.1097588259.5135.python-list at python.org...
> > Plus, the benchmarks is highly questionable. Compare a single threaded =
> > CPU intensive program with a multi-threaded CPU intensive program, the =
> > single threaded program wins. Now compare IO intensive (especially =
> > network IO) programs, the multi-threaded program wins. Granted, you can =
> > built high performing asynchronous frameworks (Twisted or medusa come to =
> > mind), but sooner or later you'll have to use threads (see the DB =
> > adapter for Twisted).
> 
>   Uh, no.  Threads are useful for supporting libraries with blocking APIs.  Nothing about database access requires threads.  Twisted uses threads DB-API 2.0 specifies a blocking API, and it is useful to support DB-API 2.0 modules.
> 
>   Several SQL modules provide an asynchronous API which can be used without threads.
> 
>   When it comes to network-bound tasks, single-threaded wins the performance contest.
> 
>   Jp

OK, how many SQL modules with an asynchronous API in Python ?

You are perfectly right. "Threads are useful for supporting libraries with blocking APIs.". Blocking APIs are way more current in Python and other languages than asynchronous APIs.

Many people (including me) find it more easy to write and debug synchronous code than asynchronous bug. As I've wrote elsewhere, building a language is about bringing a service to developers. So either we make it easy to write asynchronous code (e.g. include Twister's Deferred in the stdlib) and add functionalities to debuggers to be able to track asynchronous code (because, well, the basic programming model in a debugger is synchronous call stacks), or we build a better multi-threading support in Python. Or we could stick back to assembly code, use "jump" all over the place and forget about building fancy languages.

Regards,
Nicolas


From tchur at optushome.com.au  Wed Oct  6 18:05:34 2004
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 08:05:34 +1000
Subject: Social Analysis and Modeling for Python
In-Reply-To: <a8623416.0410061319.4032e273@posting.google.com>
References: <415AD6A4.7000400@cloudthunder.com>
	<1096493975.1238.45.camel@emilio>
	<mailman.4108.1096499054.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<a8623416.0410011046.5c2638cd@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4191.1096666380.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<a8623416.0410061319.4032e273@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1097100334.1344.267.camel@emilio>

On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 07:19, Corey Coughlin wrote:
> Yeah, working with C made it pretty horrible, you had to use records
> and functions to try to simulate objects, and basically it meant that
> anytime someone made a change, there was often an unfortunate ripple
> effect.  And the memory leaks, ugh.  And my background was electrical
> engineering, so that didn't help too much, but I picked things up
> pretty quickly.  I made a little knock off version of the program
> that, instead of simulating an entire population, took a single
> individual and did a monte carlo simulation of possible futures of
> that person.  The results were a little more personal that way.  But
> that was all a long time ago, I'm sure the state of the art is far
> beyond that now.

Seriously, the benchmark these days are games like SimCity, Civilisation
and Age of Empires, or The Sims for a more personal perspective.
Spending a few days playing these games is mandatory research for the
Social Analysis and Modelling for Python team. 

Are there any existing open source or commercial simulation games
written in or scriptable with Python, I wonder?
-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0





From andre.roberge at ns.sympatico.ca  Fri Oct  8 10:45:12 2004
From: andre.roberge at ns.sympatico.ca (Andr? Roberge)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 07:45:12 -0700
Subject: Desactivating Python keywords and built-in functions
Message-ID: <f06d8508.0410080645.17341a82@posting.google.com>

In short:
Is there a simple way to desactivate Python keywords and built-in
keywords [e.g. eval()]

Longer description:
I want to use a subset of Python as an embedded language and don't
want the users to have access to the rest of the language.   One
approach I thought of using would be something along the following
lines:

read in the script for the user;
scan for "forbidden" keywords or expression;
if found, give an error message and stop;
otherwise, let Python interpret the code.

Before I jump and start coding, I thought I would ask people that know
more about these things than me
(which means probably 97.2% of the readership of comp.lang.python  ;-)

Andr?


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Oct  5 12:44:56 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 12:44:56 -0400
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncludlu.n81.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<o574m014ea0lesbg7qhgf38umeag4mfhng@4ax.com>
	<slrncm49tc.bmn.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <cjuj28$gpl$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <slrncm49tc.bmn.sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>,
Sam Holden  <sholden at cs.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
>
>A village is a group of people, no?

...with an eye dee ten tee.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct 28 13:28:05 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:28:05 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <F_9gd.4865$kM.2575@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Jeremy Fincher wrote:
> The problem with int/long unification is that there is no simple
> pure-Python alternative for those of us who need a bounded integer
> type.  If our code depended on that raised OverflowError in order to
> ensure that our computations were bounded, we're left high and dry
> with ints and longs unified.  We must either drop down to C and write
> a bounded integer type, or we're stuck with code that no longer works.

What's wrong with the example Number wrapper I posted a couple days
ago to this thread?  Here are the essential parts


class RangedNumber:
     def __init__(self, val, low = -sys.maxint-1, high = sys.maxint):
         if not (low <= high):
             raise ValueError("low(= %r) > high(= %r)" % (low, high))
         if not (low <= val <= high):
             raise ValueError("value %r not in range %r to %r" %
                              (val, low, high))
         self.val = val
         self.low = low
         self.high = high
  ....

     def _get_range(self, other):
         if isinstance(other, RangedNumber):
             low = max(self.low, other.low)
             high = min(self.high, other.high)
             other_val = other.val
         else:
             low = self.low
             high = self.high
             other_val = other

         return other_val, low, high

     def __add__(self, other):
         other_val, low, high = self._get_range(other)
         x = self.val + other_val
         return RangedNumber(x, low, high)


  ...

and some of the example code

 >>> a = RangedNumber(10, 0, 100)
 >>> print a
10
 >>> a+90
RangedNumber(100, 0, 100)
 >>> a+91
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "spam.py", line 39, in __add__
     return RangedNumber(x, low, high)
   File "spam.py", line 8, in __init__
     raise ValueError("value %r not in range %r to %r" %
ValueError: value 101 not in range 0 to 100
 >>> 10*a
RangedNumber(100, 0, 100)
 >>> 11*a
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "spam.py", line 67, in __rmul__
     return RangedNumber(x, low, high)
   File "spam.py", line 8, in __init__
     raise ValueError("value %r not in range %r to %r" %
ValueError: value 110 not in range 0 to 100
 >>> b = RangedNumber(18, 5, 30)
 >>> a+b
RangedNumber(28, 5, 30)
 >>>

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 03:01:41 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:01:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Recursive Str?
References: <p42ed.835$oI6.618@trndny03>
Message-ID: <loom.20041022T085902-542@post.gmane.org>

Chris S. <chrisks <at> NOSPAM.udel.edu> writes:

> 
> Why do most, if not all, compound Python structures not convert their 
> elements to strings recursively?
> 
>  >>> class foo:
> ...     def __init__(self, a):
> ...         self.a = a
> ...     def __str__(self):
> ...         return 'foo('+str(self.a)+')'
> ...
>  >>> from sets import Set
>  >>> a=Set([foo(1)])
>  >>> print a
> Set([<__main__.foo instance at 0x01C01968>])

Well, they call the __repr__ method, not the __str__ method:

>>> class foo:
...     def __init__(self, a):
...         self.a = a
...     def __str__(self):
...         return 'foo(%s)' % self.a
...
>>> set([foo(1)])
set([<__main__.foo instance at 0x009D8030>])
>>> class foo:
...     def __init__(self, a):
...         self.a = a
...     def __repr__(self):
...         return 'foo(%s)' % self.a
...
>>> set([foo(1)])
set([foo(1)])

Were you just looking for this behavior, or were you asking why it's __repr__ 
and not __str__?

Steve



From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct 26 04:26:40 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:26:40 GMT
Subject: what are the most popular building and packaging tools for
 python ??
In-Reply-To: <417d7513.765059317@news.oz.net>
References: <5a309bd30410250301b26f445@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.5441.1098730188.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm8i53.1ghjcha10td2q4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417d7513.765059317@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <4Tnfd.7634$KJ6.930@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> Using this kind of system, a customer would give you his CPU's public key and serial number,
> and you would send him the encrypted code as part of your app package. No other CPU would
> be able to run this code, since no other CPU would have the matching private key
> to decrypt it. Yes, someone could send a bogus non-CPU public key that he has the private
> key for, so there would have to be an authentication of CPU public keys in some kind of
> registry, presumably generated by CPU manufacturer, mapping chip serial number to its
> *public* key, available for checking at some authenticable site.
> 
> Maybe I am missing something, but this seems feasible to me.

When the software starts, how does it know it's getting data from the
cryto core?  It could be running on an emulated processor that supports
the new verification system.  I use it to generate the public key and
get the code from you.  I then save the state of the emulated
machine and send a copy of the image and your software's key to all
my buddies.  Poof, they can use it, albeit slowly.

Your solution to that is a global registry.  If you only check it
once, when the license key is generated, then all it takes for the
emulator to work is for someone, somewhere in the world to reverse
engineer the key for a given CPU.  And experience has shown that
it's very hard to design tamper-proof crypto hardware.  There are
attacks like looking at the power draw on the circuitry to estimate
where in the process the verification failed.  See comp.risks for
many more.

Even if it isn't emulated, how does the software connect to the
core?  Can I put a shim between the software and the OS that
intercepts the crypto calls and replaces them with my own calls?

(Some examples of this in real life include malloc debuggers,
OpenGL debuggers, and system call tracers.)

If so, I can register the software with the public key generated
from my shim, which acts like a real machine.  Or I can record the
messages and attempt a replay attack.  If your software generates
a nonce to get around the attack, well, how does it generate the
nonce?  Can I make it so it always uses the same value?

If I can't insert a shim, I can still write software to scan
your program as a text file and look for where it makes the
system calls, then rewrite the binary to make calls to something
I can intercept.

It would take some work, yes, but it only needs to be broken
once.  If it's embedded in common hardware that just means more
people will attempt to hack it even for fun.  For example, look
at the XBox Linux to see how people have figured out how to
break that protection system.  There's even a book on the topic:
   http://www.hackingthexbox.com/

Hardware supported copy protection has been tried many times
over the last few decades.  The approaches I outlined above
are some of the standard ways to break them and unless I
misunderstood your suggestion, they can easily be applied
here as well.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From vineeth at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 05:53:17 2004
From: vineeth at gmail.com (Vineeth S)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 02:53:17 -0700
Subject: cgi long running jobs
References: <383854e0.0410030601.59ddfd34@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.10.04.14.38.43.605384@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <383854e0.0410120153.2fcc5424@posting.google.com>

Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.04.14.38.43.605384 at thomas-guettler.de>...
> Am Sun, 03 Oct 2004 07:01:50 -0700 schrieb Vineeth S:
> 

> > What I tried initially was a client-pull, where with the first "please
> > wait" I would send a refresh header with a flag as parameter, and then
> > use that flag to check for completion, else send a new "please wait
> > <blah>". This did not work, I am guessing, because the request and the
> > subsequent process has been tied to that session, am I correct ?
> 
> Hi,
> 
> How do you check the flag?
> 

I check to see if the form has this variable

> You can do it like this:
> One script or method called "startProcess": Start the
> real work in background (os.system(".... 2>&1 &")).
> This returns a redirect to "waitForProcess?id=..."
> 

Ah, I didnt think of backgrounding the job. But I am wondering will
apache release control to another script or page ? In the sequential
nature of things it should. I will try this.
> 
> > Going by that reasoning, I tried a fork-exec to run the long job, and
> > periodically check for completion from the parent. This does not work
> > either, and this has foxed me. Is it because fork-exec in the cgi
> > context has some other behaviour ?
> 
> What kind of session-management do you use?
> 

I did not understand what exactly you meant by session-management.

> HTH,
>  Thomas

Thanks and regards
Vineeth


From noone at here.com  Mon Oct  4 18:38:36 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:38:36 +0100
Subject: append - Dumb and Dummer
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjrvna$rf4$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjs36a$c14$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<1gl5l5t.k9lpmq1rn8gt5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cjsj9g$bh8$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi Alex,

Thanks, it was the brackets that got me.

Malcolm




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 24 09:51:31 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:51:31 +0200
Subject: Is this group for newbies?
References: <DINed.193222$as2.133033@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <1gm63yb.1299tx2xpl9y1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

ed18hg <ed18hg at brllsouth.net> wrote:

> I'm looking for a Python newbie group. I don't want to get flamed by asking
> in the wrong place.

If you're a newbie to Python but an experienced programmer in other
languages, this newsgroup should be just fine.  If you're a newbie to
Python _and_ programming, http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
may be more appropriate, since it targets that audience in particular.


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 17:09:41 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:09:41 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <mailman.5194.1098218306.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glxe78.2hkiiz189zdilN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Frohnhofer, James <james.frohnhofer at csfb.com> wrote:

> Why do you say 'simple-minded'?

Why do you top-post?

> > 2. simple-minded tools have an easier time offering such editing
> >    services as "auto-completion", which may save a little typing;
> > 
> > 3. simple-minded compilers have an easier time producing halfway
> >    decent code;

Sophisticated compilers can do type inferencing without any need for the
crutch of static typing -- cfr. Scheme's "Stalin", or our own psyco --
for example.  Forcing the user to do the compiler's work allows the
computer to be simple-minded while still making halfway decent code.

A similar case, which surely can't have faded from collective memory
yet, was C's "register" keyword.  Once upon a time, compilers were SO
simple-minded that they couldn't assign registers decently; so, the C
programmer was supposed to help them out by tagging with 'register',
rather than with 'auto' (the default), the variables he wanted to be
kept in registers.  Of course, once the general level of compiler
technology became a bit better, compilers became much better allocators
of registers than programmers could ever hope to be, so they started
treating 'register' as a comment, not helping (nor hindering) them in
doing their job.

Type inferencing is not that much harder than optimal register
allocation, with a decent static typing system (a la Haskell/ML), and is
still well within compiler writers' abilities even with horrid
typesystems or dynamic typing.  (Of course, if the compiler must be
horridly complex no matter what, in order to deal with a horridly
complicated language, the compiler's maintainers are likely to be too
busy fighting alligators to remember their jobs should be to drain the
swamp:-).  If you generally like Python but would like to see it with
static typing and inferencing, try Boo, <http://boo.codehaus.org/>.  For
inferencing (actually type annotation of flow graphs, but that's a
detail;-) on Python w/o static typing, see Pypy,
<http://codespeak.net/pypy/> (not a mature project yet, but very active
and fun to play with;-).


Alex


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Tue Oct 26 08:19:07 2004
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 05:19:07 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>	<Michael.J.Fromberger-54474F.18411025102004@localhost>	<20041026024802.GA3581@unpythonic.net>
	<mailman.5477.1098760532.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0410260419.771ac06f@posting.google.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.5477.1098760532.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 21:48 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> > Here's a bug that passes silently because ints are not limited in range
> > from 1 to 100:
> >     ...
> > 
> > OK, just joking.  I couldn't think of one.
> 
> Here's one:
> 
> # count how many ferrets I have
> ferrets = 0
> while 1:
>     try:
>         ferrets += 1
>     except:
>         break
> print ferrets
> 
> As you can clearly see, the answer should have been 3, but due to Python
> silently allowing numbers larger than 3 the program gets stuck in an
> apparently interminable loop, requiring me to reboot Microsoft Bob.

There always were legends that sys.maxferretpopulation is
implementation-dependant, not readable, and not writable. More
recently the whisper is that at least under Windows it is set by the
installer at installation time using an algorithm known only to the
timbot.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 15:06:44 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:06:44 -0300
Subject: Replaced time module with my own on accident - help
In-Reply-To: <2rydd.51253$hj.10617@fed1read07>
References: <2rydd.51253$hj.10617@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <864d370904102012065dfa26d5@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:49:58 -0700, Sean Berry <sean at buildingonline.com> wrote:
> I was writing a little script to test different functions of the time
> module.  Like an idiot, I named the test script time.py.
> 
> Then when I tried to do a "import time" call, I got an error.
> 
> So, my time.py has overwritten the time.py builtin mod.

Your problem may be a little bit simpler to solve. When you do a
'import time' is looks first in the current directory; if it doesn't
find a module by that name, it searches the module path (I forgot the
name), which usually on Unix points to the lib subdirectory of your
Python installation. It appears that you own (broken) time.py module
is just getting the precedence over the standard one. If that's the
case, just removing your own time.py (or renaming it) should solve
your problem.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From mepython at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 18:20:24 2004
From: mepython at yahoo.com (Samir Patel)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 15:20:24 -0700
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
References: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<468v42-c23.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <ffd90607.0410251420.15c038cb@posting.google.com>

Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> wrote in message news:<468v42-c23.ln1 at nb2.stroeder.com>...
> Christian Tismer wrote:
> > 
> > I would love to publish Stackless 3.1, of course.
> > Also I know that there is some inherent bug in it.
> > [..]
> > I'm seeking for a person who would take the job to
> > find the buglet. He would need to debug and
> > nail down a commercial application, which I cannot
> > make public. (S)He would need to sign an NDA with me.
> 
> Hopefully your customer does not read this news group...
> 
> > The success payment would be $500, minimum. If the problem
> > shows up to be very hard (to some undefined definition
> > of very hard, to be negotiated), it can be increased
> > to $1000.
> > [..]
> > You need to
> > be a real hardcore system hacker with many years of
> > experience.
> > [..]
> > The cheapest complete solution wins. Hurry up :-)
>  > [..]
> > Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
> > tismerysoft GmbH             :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
> > Carmerstr. 2                 :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
> > 10623 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
> 
> I'm not sure about the exact daily rates for programmers in Berlin but I 
> would not expect many responses from really skilled people for taking over a 
> commercial project for such a low payment and additionally taking the risk 
> that there's no payment at all.
> 
Michael, Money is not a reason one will work on this. Main reward is
stackless 3.1 being released for community. Christian has spend
countless hours for stackless python without getting anything in
return. This time he is too busy to fix problem by himself so he is
asking for help of community and still paying something if one is
succeful in fixing stackless.

I hope in future people will be more respectful to all those heros who
works so much for python community.

> Ciao, Michael.

- Samir Patel


From narshe at gmail.com  Sat Oct 16 10:37:02 2004
From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:37:02 -0500
Subject: Poll script in Python
In-Reply-To: <81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f@posting.google.com>
References: <81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4a0cafe20410160737341ef331@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 Oct 2004 03:59:05 -0700, Lad <export at hope.cz> wrote:
> Is there a poll script available in Python?

Can you be more specific? Are you talking about socket polling? Or a
web poll? Etc?

-Josh


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 16:46:45 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:46:45 -0400
Subject: bz2 module
In-Reply-To: <1glvijt.ji2vka1o473smN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <cl18e4$ma5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<1glvijt.ji2vka1o473smN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cl1a3m$os6$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'm having a bit of trouble using the bz2 module. The documentation for
>>it is very poor. Here's what I'm trying to do:
>>
>>import bz2
>>
>>x = file('test.bkf', 'rb')
>>
>>while True:
>>         data = x.read(1024000)
>>         if not data:
>>                 break
>>         bz2.BZ2File('test.bkf.copy', 'w').write(data)
>>
>>x.close()
>>
>>It fails with this error:
>>AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'BZ2File'
> 
> 
> Looks like your Python is misinstalled, or something...:
> 
> 
>>>>import bz2
>>>>bz2.BZ2File
> 
> <type 'bz2.BZ2File'>
> 
> 
>>Can anyone give me an example of how to use bz2 to compress files. Why
> 
> 
> import bz2
> source = open('test.bkf', 'rb')
> destination = bz2.BZ2File('test.bkf.bz2', 'w')
> 
> while True:
>     data = source.read(1024000)
>     if not data: break
>     destination.write(data)
> 
> destination.close()
> source.close()
> 
> 
>>don't the docs give examples of this?!?
> 
> 
> If the docs were perfect, who'd ever buy Python in a Nutshell, or the
> Python Cookbook?  So I sneak in at night in the CVS repository and
> secretly sabotage them just enough, destroying, without leaving a trace,
> all the wonderful doc patches that people are submitting all the time,
> fixing problems rather than whining about them...
> 
> 
> Alex

I don't know enough about proper Python usage to submit doc patches, so 
when I google and can't find an answer and none of my coworkers can 
answer my question, I post here for help... I wouldn't call that 
whining, but you're entitled to your opinion of my post.

If I were knowledgeable enough to submit doc pathces, I would do so.

Thank you,

Brad


From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Oct 13 17:56:21 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:56:21 -0700
Subject: differentially loading a class at runtime
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F7C@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Maurice LING wrote:
> In normal circumstances, we know exactly which class to load and use 
> using compile time. But I am now faced with a situation 
> whereby I need 
> to load a class differentially at runtime (the user can define which 
> class to load).
> ...
> How can I differentially use the classes at runtime?

The way I do it:
http://www.aminus.org/rbre/python/xray.py

Search for "dynamically import" and you'll find lots of other ways.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Mon Oct 25 19:27:46 2004
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:27:46 -0700
Subject: Slow debugging with Komodo
In-Reply-To: <417ab6cd$0$27540$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
References: <417a8d3e$0$1161$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
	<417ab6cd$0$27540$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <417D8BF2.3000804@activestate.com>

Will McGugan wrote:
>> On my dev machine (P4 1.7Ghz Win2K) debugging with Komodo is painfuly 
>> slow. There is a delay of several seconds when stepping over a single 
>> line of code. Debugging the same code with Pythonwin is very quick. 
>> Does anyone else experience slow debugging, and is there anyway to 
>> speed it up?
> 
> 
> Figured it out..
> 
> I was testing Komodo 3 with the file 'xmlrpcdemo.py', and once an 
> instance of xmlrpclib.Server was created and displayed in either Locals 
> or the Watch tab, it slowed way down. It seems that when Komodo inspects 
> this object there is network activity as it contacts the http server! 
> Other scripts dont show this slowdown.

Thanks for tracking that down. Komodo's variable viewer (in the Debug 
Output tab) was trying to get information about the "server" object's 
attributes. "server" is an xmlrpclib.ServerProxy object. Because of 
xmlrpclib.ServerProxy's __getattr__ -- which returns a remote method 
callable for each call -- Komodo was unnecessarily resulting in calls to 
the server. This will be fixed in the next release so that no remote 
calls are made on the "server" object unless the you specifically 
request this in the variable view by opening the "server" items tree 
view in the "Locals" or "Globals" tabs.

Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
trentm at activestate.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 30 12:01:06 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:01:06 -0400
Subject: Regex speed
In-Reply-To: <2uhpegF2bg2kdU2@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<DiEgd.6304$kM.2345@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<2uh4g5F29ntaoU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<w4mdnc7RG8C9Dx7cRVn-gA@powergate.ca>
	<2uhjgnF29251cU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<c4udnf9tNaRXMx7cRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>
	<2uhpegF2bg2kdU2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <vvqdnVbQ0PJfJx7cRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> re1sub = re.compile("whatever").sub
> 
> There was a performance gain, but it was about 1/100th of the speed
> difference.

The above line just led me to realize that you are
doing everything at "module level" instead of inside
a function.  That means all your variables are global,
instead of local, which means all variable lookups
are being done in a dictionary rather than taking
advantage of the significant optimization provided by
the use of locals (which use simple indexing operations).

Try sticking everything, including the above line
inside a def main() and call that at the end, for
comparison.

(It's more likely at this point, however, that you
are quite right that the re.sub operations themselves
are taking most of the time, so this still won't
result in much overall improvement, I suspect.
Profiling would confirm that, of course.)

-Peter


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Tue Oct 26 01:18:04 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:18:04 -0000
Subject: Method Underscores?
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09> <10ngmuq11n9qn97@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncnrngc.q99.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

> "Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote in message 
> news:9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057 at trndny09...
>> Is there a purpose for using trailing and leading double underscores for 
>> built-in method names? My impression was that underscores are supposed to 
>> imply some sort of pseudo-privatization, but would using myclass.len() 
>> instead of myclass.__len__() really cause Python considerable harm? As 
>> much as I adore Python, I have to admit, I find this to be one of the 
>> language's most "unPythonic" features and a key arguing point against 
>> Python. I've searched for a discussion on this topic in the groups 
>> archives, but found little. What are everyone's thoughts on this subject?

Wow. To me, the double-underscores is one of the most Pythonic things I can
think of. I don't believe that "Pythonic" means "good", at least not in my
book. But it's definitely one of Python's birthmarks.

I think len() is really cool. It's short, it's generic, and it's consistent.
It's not object oriented, of course. I don't believe that "object oriented"
means "good" either. But then, the OO way doesn't really make sense anyway.
Why would you send the list a "size" message, and have it respond to you,
"5"? That's silly. Lists don't talk. You want the size, you "take" it.
len(L) says "take the length of 'L'". Now, that's better.

The other great thing about len() is that it's the same for all collections.
Sure, there's nothing to stop you from implementing ".len()", or ".size()",
or ".numberOfElementsInsideOfMe()", but why would you? You've already
learned Python, you know that "len" takes the length of something, and you
certainly don't want to confuse yourself. Why not just implement the
protocol? What's it called? Of course... this is Python... must be those
double-underscores, right?

Contrast this with Java's ".size()", ".length()", ".length", etc. How would
you write a generic function to consolidate them all? You'd have to write
one overloaded method to take a Collection, another to take an Object[], and
so on down the line. If the class has an interface, you're lucky. Otherwise,
it's time to use reflection. Bleah. I'll take Python over this any day.

Although Ruby, I think, gets this right, so not all OO implementations are
flawed in this respect.

In article <10ngmuq11n9qn97 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
> Languages that make everything methods tend to have
> two characteristics in common: a single base class, and
> no facility for procedural programming.

The only languages I could think of that match this criteria are Ruby,
Smalltalk, and Java. Are there others I've missed?

> Python does not have a single base class, and one of its
> strong points is that it's a multi-paradigm language. You can
> use it for procedural programming without having to put
> everything in the object paradigm. People quite frequently
> do this for scripts.

Exactly. And a lot of people learn Python starting with algebra (I know
several non-Python programmers that use Python as a desk calculator), and
then move on to procedures, and then finally master objects. Python lets you
get pretty far without having to send messages to thingies. You can rely on
things you probably already know, like math. One of the things that I love
about Python is that it doesn't try to be a pure-OO language. It does OO,
and does it rather well, I think, but sometimes you just have to write a
couple of functions and run, and Python acknowledges that.

> In single base class languages, the top object in the
> hierarchy is a hod-podge of methods that have no
> relationship other than the language designer's decision
> that the function is fundamental enough that it needs to
> be available to every object, whether it needs it or not.

It depends on the language. Java's Object has a pretty small number of
methods, although some of them seem rather inappropriate. I don't know if
it's fair to call Java a single base class language, though, since it has
types that support operators and not methods (and Arrays, which fall
somewhere in between). In any case, I recall proclaiming to a Java-loving
coworker one day, "Object should have a 'length' method!". He thought it was
the dumbest idea ever, but the reason I mentioned it is that I was thinking
to myself, "Gee, it's so nice that I have one way to get the length of
anything in Python. If Java only put a 'length' method on Object from the
beginning, it probably would have been more consistent." The only other way
I could see pulling this off would be to make an interface for everything
Lengthable, and hope people remember to implement it, or switch to a
structural typing system and get the statically-typed version of what Python
already does easily.

> It would be technically possible (and relatively easy for
> anyone with a bit of experience with working on Python's
> internals) to add, for example, .len() to the object class.
> Would this break anything? Unlikely in most cases
> (there is one edge case I know of where it would).  Alex Martelli's
> comment elsewhere in this thread assumes one would also
> remove it from the builtins, which would of course break
> everything in sight.

And if you don't remove it, then TMTOWTDI, which means that Guido will turn
into a pie and we will all lose our minds and $t at rt t at lk1ng l1k3 th1s!11!!!

> Removing it from the builtins is equivalent to eliminating
> the multi-paradigm nature of Python: you could no longer
> do effective procedural programming without the builtins!
> This is simply not going to happen: it would be a completely
> different language. Discussing it is futile.

The builtins are great. Every language should have a basis library. To do
otherwise is to overengineer, to favor namespace elegance over practical
usefulness, and to demote functions and procedures to being second-class
citizens. The basis is what gives a language its character. It's like slang.
Nobody likes a society with no slang at all. We want a slang we like. And
Python's got a pretty good one, I think.

> Also, the new .len() method would only be available
> to new style classes written in Python, and then only
> if the author of some subclass had not decided to implement
> their own len() method with different semantics. The
> first of these two objections goes away in Python 3.0,
> where old style classes are eliminated. The second,
> however, is a difficulty that all "pure" OO languages
> need to deal with, and there is no real good way of
> handling it (meaning obvious, works all the time
> everywhere, and upward compatible without breaking
> anything.).

IOW, a complete waste of time.

> Having a parallel structure where a large number of
> builtins are also implemented as methods on object
> violates Python's basic philosophy in at least two
> ways: there should only be one (obvious) way to do
> something, and things should work the same way
> everywhere.

Well, technically, you can call L.__len__() today, so there are two ways to
do it. You could also write a loop with a counter, or turn it into a string
and count the commas. But none of these are *obvious* ways, and I think that
the *obvious* is what makes that "law" really mean something. To a Java
programmer, "len()" may not be obvious, but once you learn it, it really
can't get any more obvious. I remember my delight when PythonWin
automatically supported "len()" on COM collections, and my dismay (and
motivation to fix this deficiency immediately) when I discovered that
Jython+Jintegra didn't. In COM-land, they say ".Count()", and they probably
don't have an interface for it either. ;)

> All that said, I'd like to see some of the builtins
> as methods on object, but since it's not going
> to happen, it's not worth worrying about.

Really? Which ones?

I'd like to see map and filter be built into sequences, and I suppose "id()"
would make sense on Object, but I really can't think of any others I'd change.

-- 
 .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
        "talking about music is like dancing about architecture."


From pearu at scipy.org  Wed Oct 13 09:17:39 2004
From: pearu at scipy.org (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:17:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: ANN: SciPy 0.3.2 Released
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0410130804100.11778@scipy.org>


Hi,

Scipy 0.3.2 has been released and binaries are available from the 
scipy.org site:

   http://www.scipy.org

Scipy 0.3.2 is a bug fix release of Scipy 0.3 including the following new 
features:

- wxPython 2.5 support
- reading/writing dense/sparse matrices in Matrix Market format
- iterative solvers, new functions sqrtm, hessenberg
- Constrained Optimization BY Linear Approximation
- discrete Boltzmann, Planck, Levy distributions
- Scipy tests pass now also on 64-bit systems and Mac OSX
etc.

The complete release notes can be found here:

   http://www.scipy.org/download/scipy_release_notes_0.3.2.html

Best regards,

Pearu

BTW Scipy is:
-------------
Scipy is an open source library of scientific tools for Python. Scipy 
supplements the popular Numeric module, gathering a variety of high level 
science and engineering modules together as a single package.

Scipy includes modules for graphics and plotting, optimization, 
integration, special functions, signal and image processing, genetic 
algorithms, ODE solvers, and others.


From dochtman at cs.vu.nl  Sat Oct 30 06:12:35 2004
From: dochtman at cs.vu.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:12:35 +0200
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> another Perl/Python question: the subject says it all.
> 
> Perl is going to change dramatically to become a more powerful and
> easier to (read|write) language.
> 
> Is Python taking a similar step (-> Python 3) some time in the near future?
> 
> Reinhold

The virtual machine underlying the Perl 6 language, Parrot 
(www.parrotcode.org) will also support running Python. This will 
probably incur performance benefits as well as allowing some interesting 
interoperability between Perl 6 and Python-on-Parrot.

Whether Python-on-Parrot will become the official Python: I don't know.

Regards,

Dirkjan


From russblau at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 09:59:54 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:59:54 -0400
Subject: Calling a constructor by reference
References: <m37jq2fxdp.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
	<2skvurF1mh1b5U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2sl0eiF1kt5s5U1@uni-berlin.de>

"Russell Blau" <russblau at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2skvurF1mh1b5U1 at uni-berlin.de...
> Hint:  what do you see if you run the following function?
>
> >>> def show_args(type, *args):
>         print args
>
> >>> show_args()

D'oh! You see an exception, of course!  That last line should be
show_args(X), where X is some object you have already created.

-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.






From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Oct 29 14:27:45 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:27:45 -0500
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
In-Reply-To: <just-D2DC45.16465829102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>	<1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>	<du7d5z1fx08.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<just-D2DC45.16465829102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <41828BA1.90001@colorstudy.com>

Just wrote:
>>One of the perceived strengths of Python is the fact that it
>>integrates well with the platforms it is running on, so it's not an
>>insulated box like Java.
> 
> 
> Another one of Pythons perceived strengths is that if you get a 
> segfault, it's a bug in Python. With ctypes that will no longer be as 
> clear.

It's always been the case that C extensions can cause segfaults.  This 
is just a tool for incorporating C extensions, without writing any extra 
C.  It even says "c" right in the name, which should cause a certain 
amount of (justified) fear for anyone who knows what that means ;)

Having ctypes in the stdlib would be cool, because it would mean that 
many C library extension could be installed with no compilation step, 
since ctypes would already be compiled as part of the default install. 
Assuming the C library was already installed, but typically C libraries 
get packaged for distribution long before the associated Python 
extension is packaged.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  3 13:13:26 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 19:13:26 +0200
Subject: append to  items  depending on prior item
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1gl3h2p.1gwm2v6univttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

M. Clift <noone at here.com> wrote:
   ...
> What I have is a say item1, item4, item2, item1 etc...
> 
> What I want to do is append to each item an extra value depending on the
> previous item.
> 
> from random import *
> 
> items = [' item1',' item4',' item2',' item1']
> 
> items[0].append choice('1','2','3')
> print items
> 
> for idx in range(len(items)):
>     if previous item == ['item1']:
>         next item.append choice('a','b','c')
>     if previous item == ['item2']:
>         next item.append choice('d','e','f')
> 
>         print items
> 
> appended items = item1b, item4a, item2f etc...

This latest example totally contrast with everything else you're saying.
How could 'b' get appended to the first 'item1', for example, when
you're trying to use a choice among '1', '2' and '3'?!  I'm going to try
to guess what you mean (if you had been a bit more precise in your
example of desired input and output it WOULD have been far better, of
course)...:

def weird_appender(sequence):
    choices = dict({None: '123'}, item1='abc', item2='def')
    previous = None
    for item in sequence:
        yield item+random.choice(choices.get(previous, choices[None]))
        previous = item

and if for some super=weird reason you want to trample the contents of
list items rather than just operating on a sequence-in / sequence-out
basis, items[:]=weird_appender(items) will serve.


Alex


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Oct  5 12:48:14 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 12:48:14 -0400
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044 at news.indigo.ie>,
Alan Kennedy  <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I agree that it could potentially be a serious hindrance for cpython if 
>"multiple core" CPUs become commonplace. This is in contrast to jython 
>and ironpython, both of which support multiple-cpu parallelism.
>
>Although I completely accept the usual arguments offered in defense of 
>the GIL, i.e. that it isn't a problem in the great majority of use 
>cases, I think that position will become more difficult to defend as 
>desktop CPUs sprout more and more execution pipelines.

Perhaps.  Then again, those pipelines will probably have their work cut
out running firewalls, spam filters, voice recognition, and so on.  I
doubt the GIL will make much difference, still.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  1 09:24:25 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:24:25 -0400
Subject: Outputting to specific sound channels?
In-Reply-To: <r8ydncd5KopdxcDcRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
References: <WDY6d.2397168$6p.406211@news.easynews.com>
	<Uz67d.2746$TY2.563@lakeread04>
	<INmdncoAppBu0sDcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
	<%Ac7d.281193$4o.165728@fed1read01>
	<r8ydncd5KopdxcDcRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <bYc7d.281631$4o.105312@fed1read01>

Peter L Hansen wrote:

> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>> Peter L Hansen wrote:
>>
>>> Come on, Steve, haven't you ever seen a speaker built to act
>>> bidirectionally, so it can be used both as an output or an input?
>>> They're very handy in intercom systems and are quite fun to build
>>> from scratch, for a beginner like I am. :-)
>>
>>
>> Well I realize you know hardly anything about electronics, Peter, but 
>> even you have to admit that a speaker makes a much better input 
>> transducer than a microphone is likely to make an output transducer, 
>> if only because of the lower power-handling capacity.
> 
> 
> Steve, Steve, you're like, what 45 or something? and your hearing
> is way too far gone to hear the output of a microphone.  The rest
> of us, us young 'uns, don't have any such troubles...  :-) :-)
> 
>> I was going to add to my folly by chuntering on about electrostatic 
>> microphones until I remembered that you can also buy electrostatic 
>> speakers.
> 
> 
> -he's-probably-going-colour-blind-too-ly y'rs,
>  Peter

I'll have you know that my hearing is particularly acute. Comes from my 
misspent youth, listening in the wee small hours of the morning for a 
ten watt transmitter on the other side of the Atlantic.

In fact, I distinctly heard you smiling as you typed that last reply.

but-my-short-term-memory-is-somewhat-impaired-ly y'rs  - steve

[thinks: didn't I have somewhere to go?]


From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct  6 21:46:29 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 01:46:29 GMT
Subject: Problem with telnetlib dropping receive bytes.
Message-ID: <41649ff5$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

I'm writing an app that uses telnetlib, and I'm having problems
with bytes missing from the data stream received by my app.  At
first I assumed it was a bug in either the server or my app.
When I couldn't find anything wrong with either, I finally
looked at telnetlib.py, and found this:

   419	    def process_rawq(self):
   420	        """Transfer from raw queue to cooked queue.
   421	
   422	        Set self.eof when connection is closed.  Don't block unless in
   423	        the midst of an IAC sequence.
   424	
   425	        """
   426	        buf = ['', '']
   427	        try:
   428	            while self.rawq:
   429	                c = self.rawq_getchar()
   430	                if not self.iacseq:
   431	                    if c == theNULL:
   432	                        continue
   433	                    if c == "\021":
   434	                        continue
   435	                    if c != IAC:
   436	                        buf[self.sb] = buf[self.sb] + c
   437	                        continue
   438	                    else:
   439	                        self.iacseq += c

Why are NUL and DC1 characters being deleted from the recieve
data stream at lines 431 and 433?  They're both perfectly legal
characters.  I can't find anywhere in RFC 854 where it says to
do that, and it's breaking my program.  Some of the other
telnet features (e.g. RFC 2217) specifically use those two byte
values.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  The entire CHINESE
                                  at               WOMEN'S VOLLEYBALL TEAM all
                               visi.com            share ONE personality --
                                                   and have since BIRTH!!


From smaerty at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 12:24:12 2004
From: smaerty at gmail.com (Brian)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 09:24:12 -0700
Subject: parameters to logging.debug()
In-Reply-To: <200410261110284756%stuff2@obNOSPAMPLEASEcorecom>
References: <200410261110284756%stuff2@obNOSPAMPLEASEcorecom>
Message-ID: <1098807852.469766.112780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Winston WOLFF wrote:
> 	- If you like the current format, it is very easily done using the %

> operator with no loss of clarity.

But what about loss of performance? I don't want string formatting done
if the debugging output isn't even going to make it to the handler.
-Brian



From cjankowski at hbr-inc.com  Tue Oct 19 14:53:26 2004
From: cjankowski at hbr-inc.com (Chris Jankowski)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 11:53:26 -0700
Subject: Pointer to Image
References: <a1301a8e.0410190637.74a091ad@posting.google.com>
	<0b2dnZuKKYrdtujcRVn-ig@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <a1301a8e.0410191053.30c1f7af@posting.google.com>

Larry Bates <lbates at syscononline.com> wrote in message news:<0b2dnZuKKYrdtujcRVn-ig at comcast.com>...
> Chris Jankowski wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I am still new to using Python, so bare with me.  I am trying to call
> > a DLL from my program to use some of it's functions.  The only
> > parameter is supposed to be a pointer to an image.  I have tried
> > several variations on passing this parameter to the DLL and I am not
> > having much luck.  This is going to call other functions later for
> > OCR, but I want to get a simple one working first.
> > 
> > Here is my code:  (Very basic)
> > 
> > from ctypes import *
> > import Image
> > 
> > myOcr = windll.LoadLibrary('ocrdll.dll') # my DLL
> > 
> > mySize = myOcr.GetImgBitmapSize ## load the function
> > 
> > im = Image.open('C:\\chris.tif') ## load the Image
> > print id(im)  ## for testing print address of im
> > 
> > ##myFile = c_char_p(id(im))  # I have tried several variations of this
> > 
> > x = mySize(myFile)  ##  Actual call to the DLL Function
> >                     ##  documentation only one parameter passed
> > pointer to Image
> >                     ##  Must be DIB Image(Device Independent Bitmap)
> >                     ##  (could this be the problem?)
> > Thanks for the help.
> > 
> > Chris J.
> 
> Can you supply any docs on the ocrdll.dll API (e.g example C
> code or function/parameter documentation)?  I've interfaced
> with ExperVision's OCR RTK Toolkit via calls to their .DLL
> but it looks like you are using something different.
> 
> -Larry

I think I may have it.  cdll instead of windll


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 10:55:05 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 07:55:05 -0700
Subject: Artifical Life - a job for someone else
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>

I really miss a decent Cellular Automota program and I was really
surprised that there weren't lot's of implementations for python.

I've seen 'cage' around, but this uses curses so doesn't work on
windoze :-( *Someone* should do a decent Tkinter version of life !!
Great fun. Unfortunately it won't be me as I've got too many projects
on at the moment....

Regards,

Fuzzyman

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 00:03:35 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 04:03:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmm29m.8la.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<10mm6o6si5mdqac@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmmago.d76.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<7x8yac90k8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041012T055041-395@post.gmane.org>

Paul Rubin <"http://phr.cx" <at> NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
> 
> Dave Benjamin <ramen <at> lackingtalent.com> writes:
> > ...
> > "operator.attrgetter()" and "operator.itemgetter()". 
> 
> But why would you want to need to remember such obscure functions?  I
> never heard of any of those.

Couldn't tell if this was a joke or not, so in case it wasn't, attrgetter and 
itemgetter are being introduced in Python 2.4, I believe as a result of the 
sort(key=...) and sorted(key=...) discussions.

> Maybe they should be eliminated instead of
> lambda.  There should be one obvious way to do it, and lambda suffices.

This is the part that really sounded like a joke, but in case it wasn't...

I could write a sort function every time I wanted to sort a list, but why not 
use the one that comes builtin with Python lists?  I could write a strip 
function to remove whitespace from the ends of a string, but why not use the 
one that comes builtin with Python strs?  Likewise, I could write a (lambda) 
function every time I wanted to select an item by index, e.g.

lambda x: x[1]

but if Python has already defined one for me, why would I define it again?

Steve



From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  5 16:17:01 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 20:17:01 GMT
Subject: Retrieving the full path of Unix apps
References: <cjuu5v$2n7$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <4163013c$0$59513$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-05, Lorin Hochstein <me at nospam.com> wrote:

> I'd like to retrieve the full path of an arbitrary program on
> a Unix system (e.g. gcc).

If you really have to worry about any arbitrary program, then
it's not really a solvable problem.  There may be any
non-negative number of paths for a file with a particular name.
(Including zero.) Finding an exhastive list requires you to
walk the entire directory tree from the root down.

> What's the nicest way to do this?

Do you care _which_ path you end up with in the case where
there are multiple ones that end in the filename of interest?

Are you assuming that the program is in one of the directories
listed in the PATH environment variable?

> Currently I'm invoking the "which" program and parsing what it
> outputs to determine if the output looks like a path.
>
> Here's what I'm currently doing. Is there a more elegant way
> to do this?

You could grab the value of the environment variable PATH, and
search those directories for the file in question.  That's
pretty much what the 'which' command does.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Is it FUN to be
                                  at               a MIDGET?
                               visi.com            


From mr_rysiu at go2.pl  Sat Oct 30 04:04:48 2004
From: mr_rysiu at go2.pl (Krzysztof =?iso-8859-2?Q?Ksi=B1=BFek?=)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:04:48 +0200
Subject: py2exe and window with info about error
References: <el22e9rn34iw.dlg@cokolwiek.pl>
	<mailman.5692.1099100508.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1mnxnbqn8bop3.dlg@cokolwiek.pl>

On 2004-10-30 03:33:28 Josiah Carlson wrote:


> First questions: how is this dialog being brought up?  Are you making it
> happen with some sort of GUI toolkit (like wxPython or tk)?

No. I'm not using any GUI toolkit. It does not have any graphical
elements. That's why I don't like to have that error window.

> Is it
> automatically happening if your script raises an exception? 

I think that is the reason. Here is the example of info from log file.
It looks for me like standard exception handling. Since it can't write
it to console, it writes the output to log file and and shows the
information window.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test-programu.py", line 3, in ?
  File "ftplib.pyc", line 107, in __init__
  File "ftplib.pyc", line 117, in connect
socket.gaierror: (7, 'getaddrinfo failed')

Regards,
Krzysztof Ksiazek


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 17:46:04 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:46:04 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <4qky5s8r.fsf@python.net>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net> <ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4866.1097680786.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zUcbd.32564$3C6.1308279@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4875.1097688444.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Arebd.33298$3C6.1330114@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<4qky5s8r.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <864d370904101314466dc10a3f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:32:20 +0200, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:
> And for your original question: why do you insist on your new syntax,
> why don't you simply (as ctypes also does it) define the attributes in a
> list, when they have to have a certain order?

It's funny, but I was working with a good case for native (as in
source-code-defined) ordering right now and had missed it. I'm
learning to write test cases using unittest.py, and it just stroke me
that it's better to have tests to run in the order of complexity, in a
predictable way; it makes reading the list and analyzing the results
easier. My tests are beginning to get complex, and I just thought that
this would be a good use of our techniques (specially because defs
already have ordering information stored as function code attributes).

(in fact, I just checked unittest.py; it seems to be relatively easy
to change, because it has a hook for a cmp function that can use this
extra information)

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Thu Oct 21 16:40:46 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:40:46 -0700
Subject: Method Underscores?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5269.1098381012.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <YwRdd.231$N92.55@fe61.usenetserver.com>	<CLRdd.26753$J16.1547943@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.5269.1098381012.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41782390$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
> 
>>Hans Nowak wrote:
>>....  My only complain is that _somename_ would 
>>probably have been enough instead of __somename__....
> 
> ....  Regardless, it is a little late to complain; ....
Unless you borrow the keys to the time machine.  However, I don't
think Guido would loan them out for this reason.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Oct 27 14:48:05 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:48:05 +0200
Subject: look further down sys.path for extension module
In-Reply-To: <clod7k$m55$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
References: <clod7k$m55$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <417fed58$0$605$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Vincent Wehren wrote:
> Is it possible to have Python look further down sys.path for a C
> extension module when an ImportError is raised because of the "dynamic
> module not implementing init function"?

You could use the imp module to import zlib.pyd "manually". Then, when
an "import zlib" occurs, it looks into sys.modules, finds that zlib is
already there, and forgets about looking into sys.path.

Alternatively, you could rebuild zlib.pyd to be named pyzlib.pyd. You
need to rebuild the code because you also need to rename the entry
function, and the name of the module inside the module itself. You
can then do

import pyzlib as zlib

Regards,
Martin


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Oct  7 13:02:17 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 13:02:17 -0400
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>>
>> The problem is that CPython doesn't have thread-local storage.
>
>In 2.4 it does -- see threading.local documentation at
><http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-threading.html> (and
>even better, the docstring of the new _threading_local module).

IIUC, that's not thread-local storage in the sense that I'm using the
term (and which I believe is standard usage).  Values created with
thread-local storage module are still allocated on the heap, and it's
still possible to use introspection to access thread-local data in
another thread.

Don't get me wrong; I think it's a brilliant addition to Python.
Unfortunately, it doesn't help with the real issues with making the
Python core free-threaded (or anything more fine-grained than the GIL).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From burlen at apollo.sr.unh.edu  Fri Oct 15 16:35:28 2004
From: burlen at apollo.sr.unh.edu (burlen)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 13:35:28 -0700
Subject: help: ./configure error message
Message-ID: <12d3dd9d.0410151235.595e531b@posting.google.com>

Can anyone help me? I am installing python on my new machine, an AMD
64. running fedora core 2, i get the following message:

./configure --with-libs='/usr/lib64 /lib64'

.
.
.

checking size of wchar_t... configure: error: cannot compute sizeof
(wchar_t), 77
See `config.log' for more details.

I don't get the message if I get rid of the with-libs flag, but I
would like python to use the 64 bit libraries, in the non standard
location. Is there anoth way to get python to link with lib64??


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 28 08:07:57 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:07:57 -0400
Subject: Python utility convert Windows long file name into 8.3 DOS
	format
In-Reply-To: <clqkav$5pi$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
References: <4C0gd.20216$R05.13225@attbi_s53>	<mailman.5599.1098947598.5135.python-list@python.org>	<clqc5i$l1h$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<mailman.5606.1098959524.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clqkav$5pi$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <xn5gd.19855$SW3.5577@fed1read01>

vincent wehren wrote:

> Simon Brunning wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:55:16 +0200, vincent wehren
>> <vincent at visualtrans.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Just note that GetShortPathName expects a valid and accessible path in
>>> your file system.
>>
>>
>>
>> Which is just as it should be. Files that don't exist don't *have*
>> short names. One might be able to put together a function that
>> *guesses* what short name Windows would be likely to give a new file
>> with a given long name, but it would be pretty unreliable, I reckon.
>>
> 
> Exactly. And on top of that, there may be situations where files that 
> *do* exist *don't* have a 8.3 alias, making any such guesswork even 
> harder. So in retrospect, the correct answer to OP's question should be: 
> "No. There is no conversion utility", as the relationship between long 
> name - short name is not on of a-to-b conversion.
> 
well that's new information to me, so thanks - I just assumed that any 
long filename could be munged. But I think that it's just useful 
additional information rather than the "correct answer", since by itself 
it would have been rather less than helpful to the OP :-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 11:39:54 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:39:54 -0700
Subject: convert string to list
In-Reply-To: <ckjf9n$13ob$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
References: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
	<mailman.4833.1097669719.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckjf9n$13ob$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
Message-ID: <1097681995.12092.177.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 16:49 +0200, Jochen Hub wrote:

> > #!/bin/bash
> > myscript.py A B C
> 
> The problem is that I want to pass one or two lists to the script, so it 
> should be able to distinguish between
> 
> thescript ["A","B"] ["C","D",E"]
> thescript ["A","B","C"] ["D",E"]
> thescript ["A","B","C","D",E"]

Okay, after considering several alternatives, it occurs to me that,
depending upon the scope of this script, eval might not be a bad way to
go.  There are two main questions you have to ask yourself when deciding
if eval is safe:

1. Where will the arguments come from?  If you are hardwiring them into
the bash script (and the script is properly secured) then I don't think
there's a problem.  If they come from an untrusted source (network data,
etc), then you should by no means use eval.  

2. Is there any chance this script will be run suid?  I know Linux
doesn't allow suid scripts, but that doesn't prevent the script from
being run by a suid executable and thus gaining privileges.

If you feel secure about those two things, then I would say go ahead
with the eval-based solution, since it is clearly the simplest:

#!/bin/bash
script.py "['a', 'b', 'c']" "['d', 'e', 'f']"



#!/usr/bin/python
import sys

arglist = []
for arg in sys.argv[1:]:
    arglist.append(eval(arg))

print arglist


Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 17 17:29:14 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:29:14 GMT
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<10mt60mhr42rl09@corp.supernews.com>
	<x7sm8hugjz.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<10mu6uje93pk152@corp.supernews.com>
	<416f29c3.285069358@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <4172d7c8.69432128@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:07:52 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[... maybe misleading lack of mention of benefits of compatibility with existing stuff ;-) ...]
>
>Anyway, CPU instructions are just bytes. As a start, it might be interesting to try to build
>a dll extension in an mmap array and import it (be prepared for lots of crashes ;-).
>
>Obviously mmap etc depend on the OS, but if you had prepared a suitable bootable OS
>with a primitive file system and mmap functionality, and a userland python VM, ... well,
>it's involved, but you can get there. I'd bet pypy will eventually be at the center of
>something like that, with maybe a monolithic boot image in flash, and BIOS to boot it.
>At some point, on a suitable platform, it will be able to self-host its own development, I'd bet.
>
An OS in the larger sense is of course more than a kernel and some primitives, and even if it
is feasible to re-implement all kinds of utility functions in a new language, it is not very
practical[1] replace a lot of stuff except as a slow migration, happening in cases where someone
would rather rebuild than remodel. So then you wind up asking how to make your bootstrapped OS
able to run legacy binaries, or relink legacy object files with your newly-implemented primitive
libraries, and then whose linker you want to have do that, and how to execute *that* etc. So you
will probably either adopt a standard existing ABI or build some adaptation layer for your kernel
that provides it. Anyway, I just wanted to mention that I think there is enormous mass and inertia
in the way legacy tools and applications are represented in various format files, and it takes
a long time for something new to take hold. And a kludge that works to accomplish a money-making-critical
task today pretty much beats any vision for tomorrow, until someone has a new today thing ready
to compete in the tomorrow. Even then, the tendency is for the new to contain a 1401 emulator or such ;-/
[1] Of course, practicality may beat purity, but fun beats practicality ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Mon Oct 25 04:16:09 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:16:09 +0200
Subject: Canvas with scrollbars - how to get correct canvas coordinate
 when the scroll bars have moved?
In-Reply-To: <mpkkn01hge0017phkbhg9mvuoa1nk7jsto@4ax.com>
References: <mpkkn01hge0017phkbhg9mvuoa1nk7jsto@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <417cb485$0$1026$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

PhilC wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> I'm trying to click on a canvas to draw a line. The canvas has scroll
> bars. All is well until I move the scrollbars. This naturally because
> the relationship between my screen click and canvas event.x, event.y
> has changed.
> 
> I need something that will add the proportional amount the scroll bar
> has moved to the mouse click position. I see the terms canvasx and
> canvasy but they appear to be used for converting screen position to
> canvas position.

Either I do not understand your question, or canvasx and canvasy are exactly 
what you're looking for:

------------------------------------------------------------
from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()
root.grid_rowconfigure(0, weight=1)
root.grid_columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
cnv = Canvas(root, scrollregion=(0, 0, 1000, 1000))
cnv.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky='nswe')
hs = Scrollbar(root, orient=HORIZONTAL, command=cnv.xview)
hs.grid(row=1, column=0, sticky='we')
vs = Scrollbar(root, orient=VERTICAL, command=cnv.yview)
vs.grid(row=0, column=1, sticky='ns')
cnv.configure(xscrollcommand=hs.set, yscrollcommand=vs.set)

def click(evt):
   x, y = cnv.canvasx(evt.x), cnv.canvasy(evt.y)
   cnv.create_oval(x - 5, y - 5, x + 5, y + 5)

cnv.bind('<1>', click)

root.mainloop()
------------------------------------------------------------

"Canvas position" is the position in the drawable zone for the canvas, 
considering the scroll-region. Isn't it what you want?

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Fri Oct 15 08:48:59 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:48:59 +0800
Subject: How to python raw socket ????
References: <cko3dl$91d$1@netnews.hinet.net>
	<416fb93e$0$28812$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <ckoh06$okq$1@netnews.hinet.net>

thanks Michel

I find socket module use socket.SOCK_RAW

but... the setsockopt(level,option,value) fuction,I don't know how to use it

like 'level' .....because I want to modify ip header....

^_^  libpap I can try it.....thanks you very much

"Michel Claveau - abstraction m?ta-galactique non triviale en fuite perp?tuelle." 
<unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom> ???g???l???s?D:416fb93e$0$28812$8fcfb975 at news.wanadoo.fr...
> Hi !
>
> I had see that :  http://monkey.org/~dugsong/pypcap/
>
> It's what you search ?
>
> @-salutations
> -- 
> Michel Claveau
> m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B
>
>
>
>
> 




From jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br  Sun Oct 31 19:12:47 2004
From: jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br (Juliano Freitas)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:12:47 -0300
Subject: DOM appendChild??
Message-ID: <1099267966.2759.8.camel@swdb>

I have to append in a xml file as a child another xml file. How can i
get this?

i try parent.appendChild(document)

but doesnt work!!

Juliano Freitas



From yaipa at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 05:25:50 2004
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 02:25:50 -0700
Subject: literal hex value to bin file.
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0410070125.5b3e47a3@posting.google.com>

All,

Sorry if this has been asked before, doing a search on c.l.p, I didn't
find this particular use case.

I wish to use the struct module, in windows, to pack hexdigits in such
a way that when I pack, say 0xa into a packed object, I can then use
it to find 0xa in a binary file.

Likewise, I wish to build a hex sequence from an Assembly language
.lst (text)file so that I can search for that sequence of hex digits
in a binary file.

Thanks,

  --alan


From sstaats at questia.com  Mon Oct 11 11:18:54 2004
From: sstaats at questia.com (xegfault)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:18:54 -0000
Subject: how do i keep python from printing a newline when it exits the
	program?
Message-ID: <cke88u+jd8f@eGroups.com>


Here is a simple script:
#!/usr/bin/python

print "No newline, please.",
# End of script

When the program runs, python is still printing a newline when the
program exits.  How does one keep python from doing so?

Thanks!





From andres.baravalle at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 21:08:44 2004
From: andres.baravalle at gmail.com (Andres Baravalle)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 18:08:44 -0700
Subject: rpm and distutils
Message-ID: <45992f58.0410111708.61a5938c@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I have a simple setup.py that allows me to build my basic source and
binary distributions.

Now I would like to be able to include a few commands to add the
desktop entry for my applications.

In a spec file the commands would be, for installing:

mkdir -p $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/{applications,pixmaps}
install -m644 %{SOURCE2} $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/pixmaps
desktop-file-install --vendor fedora \
	--dir $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/applications \
	--add-category X-Fedora \
	--add-category Application \
	%{SOURCE1}

and then I have the related lines in the files section:

%{_datadir}/applications/*.desktop
%{_datadir}/pixmaps/%{name}.png

how can I add that to my setup.py file?

Thanks in advance,
   Andres

PS: I have already a working spec file that does the job, but I would
like to do all from python instead of relying on the rpm spec file.


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Oct 13 03:19:49 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 10:19:49 +0300
Subject: Ergonomics (was Re: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<du7r7oa1dst.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<I4j9d.5365$UP1.2717@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<du7655lh914.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.4800.1097635300.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7r7o3ytii.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Cliff" == Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> writes:

    Cliff> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 12:08 +0300, Ville Vainio wrote:

    >> Incidentally, I've remapped my keyboard so that ( and ) don't
    >> require pressing shift.

    Cliff> *smacks forehead and cries*

Why? Ergonomics is a matter that is taken into account way too rarely,
just observe how frequently programmers complain about RSI these
days. Python is pretty ergonomic for the most part (not too much
punctuation, popular habit of preferring lowercase letters) but it's
often a good idea to go for a little extra edge :).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 19:07:13 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:07:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: The type of a tkinter StringVars and IntVars?
References: <417838e7_4@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <loom.20041022T010628-157@post.gmane.org>

Bob Greschke <bob <at> passcal.nmt.edu> writes:

> How would I do the same thing if
> 
> a = IntVar()
> a.set(6)
> 
> and then do
> 
> if type(a) == IntVar:
>     Root.bell()

I don't do much GUI programming, but I believe you're looking for 
the 'isinstance' function:

>>> class IntVar(object):
...     pass
...
>>> a = IntVar()
>>> isinstance(a, IntVar)
True


Steve



From maxm at mxm.dk  Fri Oct 22 09:30:38 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:30:38 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <41790a9f$0$262$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Istvan Albert wrote:
> Max M wrote:
> 
> 
>> Have you tried PageTemplates from Zope?
>>
>> They are very clever, and the macros makes it much better at reusing 
>> code than anything I have seen elsewhere.
> 
> I second that. But the truth is that I really like
> templating systems that are valid HTML, thus
> can be manipulated in an html editor

Wich is exactly what PageTemplates are...

Most other systems use "illegal" html syntax for things like loops and 
logic.


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 05:40:12 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:40:12 +0200
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
	<ad180$416d49e3$51604868$18466@nf1.news-service-com>
	<ba129ce7.0410152212.3d124886@posting.google.com>
	<1glszmt.1r4o5td16zzgx1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ba129ce7.0410181328.507a91a4@posting.google.com>
	<1glwcx7.1ad9rc01yl5w0sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4174d660$0$4028$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <1glwiwv.13q0jwj15hcgoyN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Eric Brunel <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> [snip]
> > (Corba specifies language bindings for a bazillion
> > languages, but any given broker may not offer _all_, I believe...).
> 
> Just a precision to be sure no-one will be misunderstanding this: nothing
> prevents you to use different CORBA ORBs for your different languages.
> Since all ORBs use the same protocols and architecture, they interoperate
> quite gracefully.

Absolutely, as long as typical inter-ORB mechanisms (IIOP first and
foremost, I believe that's the only standardized one, right?) are
acceptable for your purposes.  The OP seemed to think that this couldn't
possibly be the case for _his_ purposes and I didn't challenge that
assumption.


> I used once fnorb for Python (http://www.fnorb.org/) and JacORB for Java
> (http://www.jacorb.org/) and everything worked OK.
> 
> But of course, you may get some functions implemented in some ORBs, but
> not in other ones (e.g activation models...)

Right.  A fully standard compliant ORB need not talk to other ORBs by
anything else except IIOP (if it does more, swell, but it don't hafta).


> The OMG site has a good list of ORBs, free or commercial:
> http://www.omg.org/technology/corba/corbadownloads.htm

Very good site to check for anything CORBA, btw, so tx for posting the
URL!  I should have dome that myself but didn't think of it, sorry.


Alex


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 20 05:12:15 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 02:12:15 -0700
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
	exception
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410200112.19327f3d@posting.google.com>

Stefan Behnel <behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in message news:<cl34oq$7fk$1 at lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>...
> Now, I'm somewhat confused that this doesn't work and I'm also worried 
> that this is only done in the module methods and not inside the class that 
> actually handles the logging (the root object in this case). This should 
> encourage a diverting behaviour of the module methods and the Logger 
> object methods with the same name. This looks like a bug to me. Adding the 
> tuple should /only/ be done inside the class, not in the module functions.

It's not a bug; however, the use case is not unreasonable, so I'll try
and get the functionality (sent by Stefan to me as a patch) into 2.4
final.

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Wed Oct  6 20:12:53 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:12:53 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <ibZ8d.878$b5.42130@news3.tin.it>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4293.1096947506.5135.python-list@python.org>	<KUo8d.3033$UP1.1475@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4303.1096948810.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4162200b$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.4310.1096950256.5135.python-list@python.org>	<OzY8d.722$b5.34812@news3.tin.it>	<mailman.4449.1097094749.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ibZ8d.878$b5.42130@news3.tin.it>
Message-ID: <41648A05.4030401@cloudthunder.com>

Anna Martelli Ravenscroft wrote:

> Richard Blackwood wrote:
>
>> WOW!  Your late on the boat.  
>
>
> LOL - Usually. My slavedriver husband keeps me working too much to 
> keep up-to-date on c.l.py... ;-)
>
> > That is an old post and all is well at
> > this juncture.  Thanks anyway Anna.
>
> Glad to see you've caught on and seem to be getting some good 
> questions and answers.
>
> [Belated] Welcome.
>
> Anna

Thanks, and tell your slavedriver husband to stop slavedriving you.  ;)


From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Oct 25 18:13:56 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:13:56 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 25)
Message-ID: <mailman.5509.1098800693.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>

QOTW:  "[M]uch of the sample Python code in the world represents
relatively good programming practices." -- Tim Roberts
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pu3mn0hpnqn4shs0cofgfa8i2gu61mb5pd%404ax.com

"[C]hoosing a language based on the speed of its implementations is the
ultimate _premature_ optimization, of course." -- Alex Martelli
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%25aleaxit%40yahoo.com


    Andreas Kostyrka summarizes the design judgment behind 
    Python's locking.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list%40python.org

    Not only has the logging module become an apparent moral
    imperative, but explaining its ease seems on the same path.
    Ville Vainio and others do their part.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=10bba0a04f732ecf

    Andrew Clover knows how to deal with expat's limitations in
    confronting DBCS encodings.  You'll want this if you deal with
    oriental writing systems.
         http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=ece30b7ac22a07ca

    Web production is collaborative.  This has consequences.
    Alex Martelli makes the design ones clear.  Max M and others
    argue the range of applicability of "templating".
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=e04c0e3a94f5dbea

    Python can compose functions in single lines, when pushed.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=70faaff2eafa600f

    Rather than fret about schedules, compatibility, and so on,
    Jeremy Bowers' response to the puzzle of Tile upgrades is 
    simply to use them.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=7470b5487e0132f8

    Python even connects to the real world.  That's the experience,
    at least, of the folks at Engenuity Corporation and Phaseit on
    the verge of sponsoring an Agile Control Forum.  "Control" here
    has to do with physical objects--things that move.
        http://www.engcorp.com/acf/AcfAnnouncement


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 17:31:24 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 14:31:24 -0700
Subject: Quixote Question
References: <mailman.4482.1097139450.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410071331.b4fa310@posting.google.com>

Tim Golden <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.4482.1097139450.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> [Fuzzyman]
> | Quixote is a web-framework. Does it act as a server or can it act as a
> | frameowrk using the CGI protocol ?
> | 
> | I would like to develop a website with user login, download manager,
> | statistics etc and I don't want to reinvent the wheel. *However* I am
> | using someone elses server, so I would like to do it using python CGI.
> | 
> | Is this  :
> | a) Possible with Quixote
> | b) A sensible use of Quixote
> 
> Quixote is *not* a server; the developers recommend Apache, 
> but basically it'll run with pretty much any kind of CGI,
> FastCGI, SCGI etc. etc. and comes bundled with a couple of
> sample servers based on Medusa and Twisted respectively.
> 
> Quixote *is* a -- to me -- simple and logical way of mapping
> URLs to Python modules, classes and functions. It's not dissimilar
> to Zope, but *way* simpler to use and understand. It also includes
> the idea of PTL which is a Python import hook which simplifies
> pushing HTML out of Python functions. You can take the PTL or
> leave it, if you prefer some other HTML-mechanism like Cheetah
> or your homegrown stuff.

Right - thanks for the helpful answer.
I still seem my website as a bunch of HTML pages, but needing
integrating with a few dynamic features.... rather than seeing the
whole site as a single web-application. I think vanilla CGI may be
more suited to some of what I want to do. But then I'm tempted to try
and use Quixote in case it sparks my imagination - I'm not sure if
it's the right way of delivering my *content* though.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> 
> There's also a helpful Quixote mailing list at
> http://mail.mems-exchange.org/mailman/listinfo/quixote-users
> 
> TJG
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
> service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
> anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
> http://www.star.net.uk
> ________________________________________________________________________


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sun Oct 24 20:58:27 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:58:27 -0400
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8omdnbg6zNc00uHcRVn-iA@giganews.com>

Christian Tismer wrote:

> I would love to publish Stackless 3.1, of course.
> Also I know that there is some inherent bug in it.

This is not a "Paid Research Project" this is
called "Bug Bounty".

Istvan.









From listserver at tdw.net  Wed Oct 20 07:17:22 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:17:22 +0100
Subject: POP text/plain
References: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B34@iron.ima.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <00a301c4b696$5f325420$ccbefea9@twilliams>


"LutherRevisited" <lutherrevisited at aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041020010134.07554.00002191 at mb-m18.aol.com...
> Ok, what I do for most email messages is get the content that is type
> 'text/html', which is 99% of my messages, and with string functions I can
get a
> string from that which is only html code.  But, for plain text messages,
the
> part which is text/plain doesn't really leave me with anything I can think
of
> to get a substring from that which is only the body of the message.  I
always
> end up with header and all when I display a plaintext message.  Any
thoughts?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


Use the email module to split any email into its "parts",  then work with
the parts individually

(code not tested)

import email

emailobj  = email.message_from_string( whole_message)

if emailobj.is_multipart():
        for part in emailobj.get_payload():
            print part.get_filename()
            print part.get_content_type()
            print part
else:
    print emailobj.get_payload()



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 17 04:10:26 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:10:26 -0700
Subject: SMTP question
In-Reply-To: <20041017040136.18077.00005364@mb-m03.aol.com>
References: <20041017040136.18077.00005364@mb-m03.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20041017010905.09F9.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> I'm trying to send an email this way:
> msg = MIMEText(self.text_ctrl_1.GetValue())
>         msg['Subject'] = sub
>         msg['From'] = 'bossierbossman at yahoo.com'
>         msg['To'] = to
>         s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.mail.yahoo.com')
>         s.set_debuglevel(1)
>         s.connect()
>         s.sendmail('bossierbossman at yahoo.com', to, msg)
>         s.quit()

smtplib.SMTP.sendmail takes:
  (sender, [recipient1, recipient2,...], message)

Make the second to the last line:
  s.sendmail('bossierbossman at yahoo.com', [to], msg)

And it should work (if you are allowed to send outgoing through
smtp.mail.yahoo.com)

You should also call s.close(), just to be sure.

 - Josiah



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Oct  8 13:27:00 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:27:00 -0400
Subject: Inline returning of function objects
References: <41659565.3080500@kzoo.edu>
Message-ID: <ck6il3$d2s$1@sea.gmane.org>


"dataangel" <k04jg02 at kzoo.edu> wrote in message 
news:41659565.3080500 at kzoo.edu...
> I've been finding more and more crazy stuff that you can do in Python, 
> and I was curious if it could handle this (it couldn't):
>
> def foo(x):
>    return def bar(y):
>       pass
>
> I was wondering why there's support for this for lambda functions not 
> normal functions.

Lambda *expressions* evaluate to normal functions.

Last I checked, the only noticable different between

f = lambda : 99 # and
def f(): return 99

is in the name attribute.  The return statement requires an expression, if 
anything, after 'return'.

Terry J. Reedy





From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Oct 17 19:50:47 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:50:47 GMT
Subject: Yahoo SMTP
In-Reply-To: <20041017161751.0A08.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041017235047.4730.519119761.divmod.quotient.1061@ohm>

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:31:38 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
>> Can someone give me an example of connecting to yahoo's smtp server 
> > and sending mail?
> > I'm doing this:
> > msg = MIMEText(self.text_ctrl_1.GetValue())
> >         msg['Subject'] = sub
> >         msg['From'] = 'bossierbossman at yahoo.com'
> >         msg['To'] = to
> >         s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.mail.yahoo.com')
> >         s.set_debuglevel(1)
> >         s.connect()
> >         s.login('bossierbossman', 'mypassword')
> >         s.sendmail('bossierbossman at yahoo.com', [to], msg)
> >         s.quit()
> > which isn't working out for me.  Any thoughts?
> 
> Checking the source for smtplib.py, you must pass a port to
> smtplib.SMTP() if you pass a host, as it defaults to 0.

    >>> import smtplib
    >>> smtplib.SMTP.debuglevel = 1
    >>> smtplib.SMTP('foo.bar')
    connect: ('foo.bar', 25)

  Connecting to TCP port 0 makes no sense, so that would be a silly default behavior.

  Jp


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 06:42:51 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 03:42:51 -0700
Subject: String to Hex
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410270242.521c6ab2@posting.google.com>

How do you safely turn an arbitrarily long signed hex string into a
long integer ?
e.g. -0x55aff8080000

When treating them as hex literals I'm getting future warnings that
from 2.4 hex values greater than sys.maxint will always return
positive values. I've had to treat them as strings and write a
function to turn them into longs a character at a time ! I couldn't
find a built in function that would do this for me.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Fri Oct 29 00:55:46 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:55:46 +0200
Subject: Tkinter and utf-8
References: <mailman.5643.1099019383.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4181cc21$0$3620$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

In XP (and 2000), the display of unicode use the uniscribe motor.  But the
standards win's versions are not (all) in top level. You MUST install more
recent version.

I had do this update, and, now, I can use really unicode in Windows (samples
: directory name in unicode, in windows explorer).


Sample code of tk display of unicode string :

root = Tk()
myFont = tkFont.Font(size=18)
w = Label(root, text=unicodstring, font=myFont)
w.pack()
root.mainloop()



Aaah !  Last "truc"  : uniscribe is in  USP10.DLL  (look the version)




*sorry for my bad english*


@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau





From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 26 01:33:54 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:33:54 -0700
Subject: speedier cgi and perf monitoring
In-Reply-To: <clkc2m$gbq$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <20041025113145.0B10.JCARLSON@uci.edu> <clkc2m$gbq$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20041025222617.0B29.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Eric S. Johansson" <esj at harvee.org> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > Don't use profiling tools.  Do manual profiling via time.time() calls
> > (which provides wall-clock time). Start coarse, and narrow down your
> > search each iteration.
> 
> I appreciate the kindness of your suggestion and I will hope you will 
> understand when I say it's a sucky option but one I will have to live with.


I personally like to use time-delta classes, they keep some of the
boilerplate code to a minimum.

class delta:
    def __init__(self):
        self.time = time.time()
    def __repr__(self):
        t = time.time()
        delta = self.time-t
        self.time = t
        return repr(delta)

def fun():
    td = delta()
    #do something that takes time
    print "operation ... took %s seconds"%td
    #do something else
    ...

It doesn't give you a one-pass mechanism for determining the exact line
where your script is being borked, but it works.


 - Josiah



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 15 02:53:41 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:53:41 -0700
Subject: Not enough space error?
In-Reply-To: <01fb01c4b280$c6444f20$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
References: <20041014231610.0978.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<01fb01c4b280$c6444f20$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
Message-ID: <20041014234617.097C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Hi, No, it is a NTFS volumne.

Hrm, you got me.  I've only run into problems with big files on Fat32
disks.

 - Josiah



From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Thu Oct  7 12:37:46 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:37:46 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ck3rcq$ftn$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp>

Aahz wrote:
> P.M. <pcm at cpugrid.net> wrote:
> 
>>I wonder if Python could be changed to use thread local storage?  That
>>might allow for multiple interpreter instances without the GIL (I've
>>never looked at the actual code so I'm just hypothesizing).  I took a
>>quick look at Lua today and it has no problems with creating multiple
>>instances of the interpreter, so it definately is a solvable problem.
> 
> 
> The problem is that CPython doesn't have thread-local storage.  All

I'm sure P.M. meant that the Python C API uses thread local storage 
instead of global/static variables.

Daniel


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 03:22:58 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:22:58 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <1glbyrn.4jt08j144wg1dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bryan Olson <fakeaddress at nowhere.org> wrote:
   ...
> Are we looking at the same question?  A language that makes safe

Probably not: I'm focusing on (and answering, I hope) the specific
assertion "CPython doesn't have thread-local storage", an assertion
which I think is wrong for 2.4.  Even if we do agree it does, that
doesn't necessarily mean such TLS (which CPython exposes to Python
programs) is in the least helpful in implementing CPython itself, of
course; nevertheless it seems reasonable to me to try and answer
assertions which I believe are wrong, even when those assertions may not
be directly relevant to a thread's "Subject".

> Guido did not impose the GIL lightly.  This is a hard problem.

Sure.  I wonder what (e.g.) IronPython or Ruby do about it -- never
studied the internals of either, yet.


Alex


From maxm at mxm.dk  Fri Oct 22 08:46:35 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:46:35 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Cliff Wells wrote:

> PHP has some excellent libraries for web development.  In many ways this
> makes up for the shortcomings in the language itself, since you can
> quite often keep actual programming to a minumum.  I've seen nothing in
> the Python world that compares to Smarty templates (and yes, I've
> reviewed the many Python templating engines available.  To date I've
> seen none that approach Smarty in actual
> usability/readability/simplicity).


Have you tried PageTemplates from Zope?

They are very clever, and the macros makes it much better at reusing 
code than anything I have seen elsewhere.


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From littlejohn.75 at noos.fr  Thu Oct 21 11:46:45 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 15:46:45 GMT
Subject: Matrix (list-in-list), how to get a column?
References: <mailman.5261.1098371947.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4177d9e5$0$842$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:19:04 +0200, Arvid Andersson <arvid at linux.se> wrote:
> 
> I have some data that looks like this:
> data = [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]]
> 
> I want to send columns 1 and 2 to a function
> as two variables, say "plot(col1,col2)".
> 
>From a interpreter session :
>>> data = [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]]
>>> col1 = [ pt[0] for pt in data ]
>>> col1
[1, 3, 5]

>>> import Numeric as N
>>> N.array(data)
array([[1, 2],
       [3, 4],
       [5, 6]])
>>> N.array(data, N.Float)
array([[ 1.,  2.],
       [ 3.,  4.],
       [ 5.,  6.]])

>>> pts = N.array(data, N.Float)
>>> pts[:,0]
array([ 1.,  3.,  5.])

Hope that helps.  Don't hesitate to try directly at the interpreter
prompt.


From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 30 18:18:42 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 15:18:42 -0700
Subject: Color schemes
References: <41838c6e$0$7153$d5255a0c@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0410301418.1ee469f5@posting.google.com>

Mark Schonewille <nospam at nospam.com> wrote in message news:<41838c6e$0$7153$d5255a0c at news.wanadoo.nl>...
> Hi,
 Hello!
> Is anyone using a color scheme for his Python scripts?
 Yes.
> I suspect most people are using a text editor which may or may not support 
> colorisation of scripts.
 Good intuition, because some do and some don't :)
 Many of the python editors out now are based on Scintilla.
 Scintilla is a capable, colorizing, folding, text widget on 'roids.
> Do you use a similar script in a Python IDE or in your text 
> editor to colorize your Python scripts?
 I use an editor that is based on Scintilla .
 To convert python source to colorised html for webpages and documentation,
 I have been writing a module called PySourceColor.
 It is a based on token and tokenize.
 If you are intrested you can find it here:
 'http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/e/mefjr75/'
 This is a new version and has many improvements.
 Also there is a version of pydoc there that serves up colorized html.
 HTH,
    M.E.Farmer


From richie at entrian.com  Thu Oct 14 08:20:00 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:20:00 +0100
Subject: Is there something like Zoe in Python
In-Reply-To: <416e5e1d@news.mt.net.mk>
References: <416e5e1d@news.mt.net.mk>
Message-ID: <bkrsm01u3d73i6hkuri463qfo2ket7trgl@4ax.com>


[??????]
> Zoe is an application written in Java that is also a SMTP/POP/WEB server
> that sits between your normal mail user agent (Thunderbird, mutt or
> Outlook) and the rest of the world. Every mail you've received or sent is
> stored and indexed in Zoe, so that you can perform searches (ala Google) on
> your own mail database, via its web interface.
> 
> I was wondering if there's something similar but written in Python.

Divmod Quotient: http://www.divmod.org/Home/Projects/Quotient/index.html

I haven't used it, but I believe it's exactly what you describe.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From borovikov at comcast.net  Mon Oct 11 10:52:04 2004
From: borovikov at comcast.net (Igor)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 07:52:04 -0700
Subject: DV AVI frame extraction with Python?
References: <c41cca24.0410092251.7c17560b@posting.google.com>
	<diho32-jut.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <c41cca24.0410110652.5ca85d8e@posting.google.com>

> You can use ffmpeg (which pymedia is based on) to convert the file
> to a motion jpeg (tell it use extension mjpeg).  A motion jpeg file
> is roughly each frame as a seperate jpeg image all concatenated together.

Thank you, Roger. It could be a solution. But I would still try to
find conversion as lossles as possible.


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 06:26:57 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 03:26:57 -0700
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4231.1096844832.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410040226.39f4db6a@posting.google.com>

<following myself>

just found this on my bookmarks:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/MetaClasses


   M.S.


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 29 05:24:11 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 02:24:11 -0700
Subject: Looking for more Cookbook contributors
In-Reply-To: <D3kgd.10428$KJ6.3501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <0kavn019dk6vf7ini32t3muc9e6r9j7t1n@4ax.com>
	<mailman.5575.1098897039.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmdbxx.o57i68hu9achN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5641.1099011631.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<D3kgd.10428$KJ6.3501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1099041851.7272.21.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 04:56 +0000, Andrew Dalke wrote:
> Terry Reedy wrote:
> > I am surprised.  Maybe some mail systems have given up on bounces, perhaps 
> > since they validate the good addresses by not bouncing.
> 
> My machine is one.  Before I turned on filtering I was getting ...
> 12,000 spams a day sent to made up addresses @ my domain.  (They were
> all forwarded to me).  I decided to /dev/null them instead of bouncing
> in part to prevent the validation and in part because the 'from'
> addresses were often forged, so my bounce mail would either end up in
> some Random J. Blow's box or in turn get bounced back to me.

I wish more admins would do this.  Bouncing messages to invalid accounts
is worse than worthless these days.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 25 10:23:11 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:23:11 -0500
Subject: python file versioning
In-Reply-To: <cliv0l$ah6$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250506.1d679430@posting.google.com>
	<cliv0l$ah6$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20041025142309.GA26896@unpythonic.net>

No, that's completely incorrect.

  File "/tmp/diez.py", line 4
      from __future__ import nifty_feature
SyntaxError: from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the file

Jeff
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  9 18:41:37 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 00:41:37 +0200
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glc6g0.1ner1219acqffN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4625.1097319502.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glf0aw.d4q2xilmpg8wN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Egbert Bouwman <egbert.list at hccnet.nl> wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 11:59:32AM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > 
> > option 3, a bit cutesy:
> > 
> > for first_line in thefile: break
> > for line in thefile: ...
> > 
> > (again, in 2.2 you'll need some foo=iter(thefile)).
> > 
> This technique depends in the file being positioned at line 2,
> after the break.

Not exactly, if by "being positioned" you mean what's normally meant for
file objects (what will thefile.tell() respond, what next five bytes
will thefile.read(5) read, and so on).  All it depends on is the
_iterator_ on the file being "positioned" in the sense in which
iterators are positioned (what item will come if you call next on the
iterator).

In 2.3 a file is-an iterator; in 2.2 you need to explicitly get an
iterator as indicated in the parenthesis you've also quoted.


> However, In the Nutshell book, page 191, you write:
> > Interrupting such a loop prematurely (e.g. with break)
> > leaves the file's current position with an arbitrary value.
> 
> So the information about the current position is useless.
> 
> Do I discover a contradiction ?

Nope -- the file's current position is (e.g.) what tell will respond if
you call it, and that IS arbitrary.  In 2.2 (which is what the Nutshell
covers) you need to explicitly get an iterator to do anything else; in
2.3 you can rely on the fact that a file is its own iterator to make
your code simpler.  But the iteration state is not connected with the
file's current position.


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 17:13:35 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:13:35 +0200
Subject: what are the most popular building and packaging tools for
	python ??
References: <5a309bd30410250301b26f445@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.5441.1098730188.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm8i53.1ghjcha10td2q4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Neil Benn <neil.benn at arcor.de> wrote:
   ...
> start looking at reverse compilation.  This is something it it possible
> to do in most 'bytecode' languages - other bytecode implementations 
> (java, .NET) use 'obfuscators' that will make your code unreadable if
> someone tries to decompile it.  To this end, I've not seen a python 
> obfuscation tool

Security by obscurity isn't.  If you can obfuscate, I can deobfuscate,
if it's worth my while.  If you stick in license checking, I can patch
it out.  It's not about one programmer being better than another: the
attacker/cracker has the inevitable advantage.  If you ship all the code
(even in object obfuscated form) you're toast.  I know: I've done that
as part of my job for ten years of my life -- copy protection and the
like WAS one part of my job as senior software consultant.  Thousands of
hours wasted off my live.  Quoth the raven, nevermore.

If your code contains really valuable trade secrets, my well-considered,
experience-driven, professional suggestion, is to carefully remove just
enough of the secret parts from the code you distribute, and make them
available only as web-services or the equivalent from a host you
control.  Whatever implementation language you use, the only code that
will never be cracked is code that does NOT leave your control.  (well,
that AND most code that's not really all that valuable, of course;-).

A web service can require any form of authentication and validation from
its 'client' code, so you can implement any business model you like.  I
heartily recommend (depending on the situation) subscription-based or
per-use fees, over the old and crufty 'sell the bits' model that never
really worked right (IMHO).  Be sure to pick _important_ parts of your
code as those that are only available as webservices, not to make the
webservices just a kind of license check, or else the webservice access
WILL be hacked out just like any other license check (assuming your code
IS valuable, of course).

You can distribute, depending on your exact circumstances, an "already
somewhat useful" pure-client program, as long as the full functionality
that customers will pay for is only accessible via the webservices.  You
can even opensource the part you distribute, that may garner you useful
feedback, more customers, etc.

Of course, there _are_ still, today, applications which can't assume the
net is available and must still offer full functionality no matter what.
They're fewer and fewer, thanks be, as connectivity spreads -- games
accrue multiplayer online-play features that players are eager for,
financial programs require access to updated exchange rates or stock
levels, and so on.  If you do need to sell applications which have full
functionality without net access, you may as well resign yourself: you
will never be truly safe, alas.


Alex


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 18 13:34:59 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:34:59 +0200
Subject: Print variable values by their names
References: <72e80deb.0410180903.2c7e939d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cl0ur8$len$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Michael Krasnyk wrote:

> How can I print variable values by their names?
> For example:
> 
> import sys
> for str in dir(sys): print str
> 
> Will be printed only variable names, but I need values from list of
> variable names.

vars(module) gives you the module's global dictionary:

>>> import sys
>>> for name, value in vars(sys).items():
...     print name, "=", repr(value)
...
setrecursionlimit = <built-in function setrecursionlimit>
getfilesystemencoding = <built-in function getfilesystemencoding>
stdout = <open file '<stdout>', mode 'w' at 0x40335060>
[snip]

Peter



From kosh at aesaeion.com  Tue Oct 26 05:36:32 2004
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 03:36:32 -0600
Subject: what are the most popular building and packaging tools
	for	python ??
In-Reply-To: <1gm9eo8.fp3g5ucaxw9cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <5a309bd30410250301b26f445@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.5491.1098775920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm9eo8.fp3g5ucaxw9cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200410260336.32814.kosh@aesaeion.com>

On Tuesday 26 October 2004 3:07 am, Alex Martelli wrote:

>
> This is certainly a very valid business consideration.  Without (at
> least) source in escrow, or the like, betting your business on ANY
> closed-source app may be very unwise.
>
> Nevertheless, people and businesses use (e.g.) google daily, and depend
> on it -- they don't have google's sources, and if they did they'd be
> little use since the real value in this case is in the huge database
> they're acessing.  Why should any other webservice be different?
>

One of the thing that makes those kinds of webservices different is that you 
can easily leave. Yes google is currently the best but there are lots of 
other search engines that are good enough and would get better pretty rapidly 
if google went nuts, vanished etc. That is part of the degree of protection 
since the person is not really locked in google has to behave or lose them.


> > staggering. Even if the software did not cost any money the price is far
> > too high for what you lose. However the software tends to be very
> > expensive which makes it an even worse investment. The worst ones are
> > those you can't really get the data back out of.
>
> And _that_ is a customer protection law I'd love to see: requiring all
> applications using proprietary formats for user data to provide an
> export functionality (possibly as an auxiliary program) that is able to
> write out the data as XML according to a DTD (or Schema, or RelaxNG,
> whatever) to be published and filed in some accessible archive, and
> import such an XML file back into the app's own format.
>
> Some tolerance for closed source is one thing, hijacking users' data is
> the bit that REALLY makes me see red!-)
>

There is no doubt this should exist I have just seen a number of cases where 
it does not and companies get screwed pretty badly.

>
> And Bengt's idea (apart from requiring a highly specialized CPU in lieu
> of pretty generic network access) doesn't appear to be any more
> objectionable than web services, either.
>
>

The webservice one is much less of a burden on the system. You can upgrade 
your computer, use it from a different computer, use it through a proxy etc. 
The application running on your machine tied to some id on your cpu you can't 
do that with. Many web services even work with a wide range of browsers so 
you are not tied into any given os, browser, hardware platform etc.

Yes your data can still be locked in a proprietary format kept only on the 
server so you never see it except to see reports on that data and I suspect 
that does happen but many services make it very easy to get all of your data 
out of the system. 

So while the webservices can do some of the negative things the crypto cpu 
would it also automatically makes many things far better. If my computer 
takes a lightning strike I can use another computer to use the webservice 
right away. With the crypto app you are pretty much screwed until you go 
through the whole authorization song and dance.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Oct 26 16:06:27 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:06:27 -0400
Subject: using re: hitting recursion limit
References: <417eab49$1@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <clmans$dlv$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Erik Johnson" <spam at nospam.org> wrote in message 
news:417eab49$1 at nntp.zianet.com...
>    One question is, "Does getting this error actually mean I have hit my
> process' stack memory limit or is there possibly some artificial 
> recursion
> limit set in front of that?" If there is some number I can push up, I'd 
> be
> happy to let it run until the OS axes it for exceeding it's process 
> limits

Perhaps you are looking fo
sys.getrecursionlimit()
sys.setrecursionlimit(n)

Terry J. Reedy





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Oct  4 10:07:20 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 10:07:20 -0400
Subject: python vs c# [way, way, WAY OT]
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com> <slrnclq089.t09.sho
	<1gl2qu9.1nj9i2s1yt9erkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cjrleo$mob$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <1gl2qu9.1nj9i2s1yt9erkN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Of course, linguistics has long been split between prescriptive and
>descriptive orientations.  The long-term trend is definitely away from
>the prescriptive (which centuries ago used to rule supreme) and towards
>the descriptive (which isn't controversial any more, as soon as you get
>into the actual professional practice -- peer-reviewed journals, etc).
>How you "should" express yourself, after all, depends on your purposes;
>the best a linguist can do is elucidate for you the likely consequences
>of a stylistic or grammatical choice.  It's not an issue of "who ya
>gonna call?" being ``better'' or ``worse'' than "whom are you going
>to contact?"... if you understand the contexts in which either way of
>expression is going to be clearer, how they're going to affect your
>audience, and so on, you can _choose_ effectively between them.

"Contact is not a verb under this roof."
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little
statesmen and philosophers and divines."  --Ralph Waldo Emerson


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 15 03:14:23 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:14:23 -0700
Subject: Not enough space error?
In-Reply-To: <023601c4b284$edb5ac30$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
References: <20041014234617.097C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<023601c4b284$edb5ac30$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
Message-ID: <20041015001346.097F.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> One more interesting thing is when that error occurs, I can't open any
> other file on the system unless I kill all Python process from Task
> manager...

That is strange.  What version of Python are you running?

 - Josaih



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 17:10:43 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:10:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Using os.system() and string concatenation
References: <7a2229ee041012114353157c1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<ckh9kr$q16$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<7a2229ee04101212215fadcb18@mail.gmail.com>
	<loom.20041012T221252-992@post.gmane.org>
	<7a2229ee041012134429aaa52a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041012T230323-973@post.gmane.org>

Wayne Witzel III <wwitzel3 <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Ok, here is what I had.
> 
> os.system("/usr/sbin/useradd"+ " -d " + user[0] + " -s " + user[1] + "
> " + user[3])
> 
> when I change os.system() to print .. it outputs just fine and I can
> copy and paste the results and they execute. Just using os.system()
> they do not execute unless I place the string in cmd variable first.
> 
> cmd = "/usr/sbin/useradd"+ " -d " + user[0] + " -s " + user[1] + " " + user
[3]
> os.system(cmd)
> 
> This works fine.

Ahh, much clearer, thanks!  Unfortunately, now that I understand your problem, 
I have no idea why this would be true... =(  Can anyone else reproduce the 
error here?  I can't:

>>> import os
>>> os.system("/bin/echo" + " a" + " set" + " of" + " words")
a set of words
0
>>> cmd = "/bin/echo" + " a" + " set" + " of" + " words"
>>> cmd
'/bin/echo a set of words'
>>> os.system(cmd)
a set of words
0

but I'm running Cygwin, so it's not really a good comparison anyway.

Steve



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Oct 12 16:57:10 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:57:10 -0400
Subject: How to: get list of modules in a package
In-Reply-To: <DrOdnXXU2_rZrvHcRVn-vw@rogers.com>
References: <4OudnSEQhLvFyfbcRVn-pg@rogers.com><dfWdnaXpKtgvb_bcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>	<mailman.4757.1097594848.5135.python-list@python.org><Ev-dnS1wxIC7hfHcRVn-tQ@rogers.com>	<mailman.4767.1097608127.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<DrOdnXXU2_rZrvHcRVn-vw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <416C4526.5070005@rogers.com>

Dan Perl wrote:
...

>Got it now!  And what do you mean "those" Canucks?  
>
Igloo-dwellers from the North... very short tempers... I blame the 
strong beer...

>From the email address 
>you seem to be Canadian too!
>
Scurrilous rumours those.  I was born in Montreal, so I'm obviously not 
Canadian ;) :) .

>Not to mention that I am Canadian!
>  
>
Really, had no idea ;) :D ... guess I shouldn't contradict you then...

Have fun,
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Oct 15 14:20:59 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:20:59 -0700
Subject: automatic accessors to a member var dict elements?
In-Reply-To: <slrncmv0fp.ru4.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <mailman.4968.1097781955.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mu7sfs68m1q28@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmv0fp.ru4.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <10n053nfigpq461@corp.supernews.com>

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:

>>>>class MyClass(object):        # ensure a new-style class
>>>>        
>>>>
>...     def __init__(self):
>...         self.m_dict = {'one':1, 'two':2, 'three':3}
>...     def __getattr__(self, attr):
>...         value = self.m_dict.get(attr, None)
>...         if value is None:
>...             raise AttributeError(attr)
>...         return value
>...     def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
>...         self.m_dict[attr] = value
>... 
>  
>
>>>>obj = MyClass()
>>>>        
>>>>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  File "<stdin>", line 3, in __init__
>  File "<stdin>", line 10, in __setattr__
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>[snip]
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
>
>I know there is something different about new style classes in this
>area, but thats not it!
>  
>

Hmmm... Actually, I think that the problem here is that during 
__init__(), we're trying to set the attribute m_dict, which doesn't 
exist yet, so it tries to look in self.m_dict to find it...

Modifying __init__() so to use self.__dict__['m_dict'] instead of 
self.m_dict will likely fix this.  (But I still haven't tested it...)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From marklists at mceahern.com  Fri Oct 22 22:54:43 2004
From: marklists at mceahern.com (Mark McEahern)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:54:43 -0500
Subject: How to use date object
In-Reply-To: <91c5be0a.0410221840.1a5d4cc@posting.google.com>
References: <91c5be0a.0410221840.1a5d4cc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4179C7F3.5010509@mceahern.com>

marie wrote:

>I am a newbie in python.  And I would like to know how to create and
>use the methods in date.  Can someone please show me some code about
>it.  Thanks.
>  
>
import datetime
year = 2004
month = 10
day = 22
d = datetime.datetime(year, month, day)
print d

etc.

// m


From jonathan.wright at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 14:35:39 2004
From: jonathan.wright at gmail.com (Jon Wright)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 11:35:39 -0700
Subject: Cleanly end a thread with blocked i/o in win32?
Message-ID: <56b071ab.0410211035.440de0ef@posting.google.com>

Trying to work around the lack of pexpect for native windows python I
had a play with os.popen2 and some threads. This looks promising
enough for what I want to do, but I hit on a problem with getting the
script to exit cleanly. Tried replacing popen with subprocess but I am
still confused. Either it needs to be killed from the task manager, or
I get a variety of different complaints and popping up "application
error" windows. I managed to get it to stop with os.abort(), but this
invites a complaint from windows about terminating in an unusual way.
Closing the file descriptors of the child process leads to a crash and
I think I should be sending a kill to the process, although I don't
know how (please tell me).

Would any of you care to have a look at the code below and make
suggestions for tidying it up properly? It also dies nastily if the
child process terminates. Eventually I would like to fire off a
program from a gui, supply input programmatically, depending upon the
unpredicable questions the program might ask, and prompt the user if
the child process asks something unknown. Also process the output into
a graphical form so the user can change options and run the child
again. Makes the crashing a bit of a problem! Entirely different
approaches which can accomplish this task would also be very very
welcome, I tried a telnet to localhost suggestion, but this was
painfully slow on this windows xp machine (using "services for unix"
telnet server). The communicate bit of subprocess only gives me one
chance to talk to the process. Should I be inheriting from subprocess
and editing the communicate method there?

Having googled extensively on this problem it seems that tidying up
this code could be useful to others too?

Thanks!!

Jon
---
import os,sys,time,subprocess
from threading import Thread

out = ""  

class reader(Thread):
   def __init__(self,file_to_read):
      self.file_to_read=file_to_read
      Thread.__init__(self)
   def run(self):
      global out
      while 1:
         i=self.file_to_read.read(1)
         out+=i 
         sys.stdout.write(i) # for debugging

class writer(Thread):
   def __init__(self,file_to_write):
      self.file_to_write=file_to_write
      Thread.__init__(self)
   def run(self):
      global out
      while 1:
         i=sys.stdin.read(1) # for debugging 
         out+=i 
         self.file_to_write.write(i) 

if __name__=="__main__":
   child = subprocess.Popen(sys.argv[1],
                            stdin=subprocess.PIPE,
                            stdout=subprocess.PIPE) 
   # or: child.stdout,child.stdin = os.popen2(sys.argv[1])
   r = reader(child.stdout)
   w = writer(child.stdin)
   r.start()
   w.start()
   while r.isAlive() and w.isAlive():
       try:
          time.sleep(10)
       except:
          print "\n=== in out now ===\n",out,"\n======"
          break
   print r.isAlive(),w.isAlive() # Who died, in or out??
   time.sleep(1)
   print r.isAlive(),w.isAlive() # Who died, in or out??
   print "You fell off of the bottom of the script"


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 26 16:40:30 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:40:30 -0700
Subject: comparing multiple copies of terrabytes of data?
In-Reply-To: <rcadne61o99eEePcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
References: <mailman.5517.1098807918.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rcadne61o99eEePcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <20041026132253.0B56.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
> > measure, if shy by around 3 orders of magnitude in terms of time.
> 
> > That new one runs in 5 minutes 15 seconds total, because it exploits the
> 
> my point was never to say that it is not possible to write
> a better way, nor to imply that you could not do it, I simply
> said that there is no easy way around this problem.

Funny, I thought the implementation I offered was an easy way.  No
easier than to use someone else's code, which took all of 5 minutes to
write.


> Your solution while short and nice is not simple, and
> requires quite a bit of knowledge to understand
> why and how it works.

Anyone who has difficulty understanding the algorithm I offered that
used md5 should seriously consider switching hobbies/jobs. The algorithm
is trivial to understand.


> other topic ... sometimes I have a hard time visualizing how much
> a terrabyte of data actually is, this is a good example
> for that, even this optimized algorithm would take over three
> days to perform a a simple identity check ...

It would only take that long if you could only get 15 megs/second from
your drives (it was the main boot drive and the files were fragmented).
At multi-tb data sizes, RAID arrays are common, so read speed is
generally much higher, which would then reduce the running time
significantly.

In the case of multiple drives in a non-raid array, splitting up the
process could linearly scale to the limit of the drive and processor(s)
speed.


 - Josiah



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Fri Oct  1 13:14:32 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:14:32 +0100
Subject: is there a simple way to abuse parser for this?
Message-ID: <yfsy8iql5s7.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

I sometimes find myself in the situation that I want to perform some simple
source code changes, queries etc. in the code regions of a python file (i.e.
outside comments and strings).

I thought a reasonable way to achieve this might be to have some simple minded
regexp that does the job but doesn't pay attention to strings (or comments,
but those would usually be relatively easy to handle) and then only check
*after* a match was found whether this match occured in a valid region (since
false positives should be rare).

i.e.:

    def replaceStuff(match):
        if validRegion(match.start, match.end):
           ...
        else:
           return match.group(0)
    ...  
    re.sub(regexp, replaceStuff, pythonFile)


I was wondering whether python's parsing services (which I haven't used so
far) could be easily coopted for the ``validRegion`` detection (one could of
course use a regexp to find string and comment boundaries but that has the
disadvantage that it's lest robust, e.g. it might break if new syntax is
introduced).


'as


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sat Oct 16 13:37:49 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:37:49 +0100
Subject: Python Library Reference is tutorial, not reference
In-Reply-To: <opsfy32lax6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>
References: <opsfy32lax6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <ckrm9g$gme$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

aurora wrote:

> Sometimes it is rather frustrated to use the Python Library Reference. 

Personally, I like the current library reference, and wish it had more 
example sections. They are usually the most helpful parts in my opinion.

> http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/stdlib/public/cgi.FieldStorage-class.html

Thanks for that link--seems very useful. If you like it so much, why 
don't you just keep using that page? ;-) You could also submit a 
documentation patch or RFE to get a link added to the python.org 
documentation pages.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Mon Oct  4 19:10:08 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:10:08 +0100
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk> <10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
	<cam7d.455$UP1.116@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<yfsacv5h224.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<slrnclvng4.u8f.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<yfs8yanetzp.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<mailman.4247.1096901234.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<yfsacv24cdn.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk> <cjs5mg$7ug$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <yfsllem13n3.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

Robert Kern <rkern at ucsd.edu> writes:

>> Anyway, I think this horse has now been beaten to death -- either someone
>> who has the power to make inclusions has been convinced by now or it's
>> not gonna happen (at least not in the immediate future).
>
> Not necessarily. It *is* unlikely that someone who "has the power to make
> inclusions" is going to pick up on this and write an implementation for
> you.

Well, the implementation is quite trivial (and I've posted one).

> However, (and this is an important feature of Python's development) if *you*
> write an implementation, document it, write unit tests for it, and present
> it to the public and python-dev with a good case for its existence, it has a
> pretty good chance of getting in.

Sure, but Martin von Loewis suggested posting a patch for one of my gripes
(pydoc) -- which I did, but didn't think this one substantiated, which
suggests to me that inclusion is not that likely. And whether it gets in is
not important enough for me to invest much more time -- I already have it
amongst my utility functions and I'm extremly occupied otherwise.


> Many (most?) of the active Python core developers don't read c.l.py with
> any frequency. If you have a feature request, post it to the Sourceforge
> bug tracker[1], preferably with a patch implementing the feature, or it's
> almost certain that no-one will pick it up.

OK, I posted a feature request (it's not important enough for me to go
through the hassle of a patch if chances seem slim -- but since I already
spent some time on it I might as well give it a chance as you suggested).

>
> [1] http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470

'as


From comfortably007numb-python at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 13:34:51 2004
From: comfortably007numb-python at yahoo.com (Venkatesh Prasad Ranganath)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:34:51 GMT
Subject: ANN: eric v. 3.5.0 available
In-Reply-To: <n2f9d.1718$Lk3.516@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
References: <4o7532-q8g.ln1@stargate.solsys.priv>
	<n2f9d.1718$Lk3.516@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <%6f9d.3212$q%7.2356@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>

Venkatesh Prasad Ranganath wrote:
> Detlev Offenbach wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am proud to announce the immediate availability of eric v. 3.5.0. It is
>> available via
>>
>> http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html
>>
>> or
>>
>> http://eric-ide.sourceforge.net
>>
>> This release includes some new features and a bunch of usability
>> enhancements. For details see the attached release notes.
>>
>> Regards
>> Detlev
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> This is a feature relase of the eric3 Python IDE. The most notable 
>> feature enhancements are:
>>
>> Editor:
>> - multiple views to the same document
>> - lexer support for Perl and Bash
>> - automatic syntax checks of Python files upon save/open
>> - syntax check for Quixote page template files
>> - autosave feature
>> - limit the effect of a search and search/replace to a range of lines
>>
>> Debugger:
>> - show contents of simple Qt-types while debugging
>> - add breakpoints while the debugger is executing
>>
>> Python shell:
>> - a Python shell based on the QScintilla widget with autocompletion,
>>   calltips and syntax highlighting
>>
>> Interface:
>> - new dialogs to compare files
>> - enhanced the file/class browser
>> - a new window layout called "floating windows"
>> - a new icon set based on crystal icons
>>
>> Translations:
>> - French translations
>>
>> Others:
>> - improved Subversion integration
>> - drag and drop support
>> - single instance mode
>> - enhanced unicode support
>>
>> Please note that Python versions prior to 2.2.0 are not supported 
>> anymore.
> 
> 
> How do you change the font used to display the python shell?
> 
It's just that each line overwrites half the height of the previous line.

-- 

Venkatesh Prasad Ranganath,
Dept. Computing and Information Science,
Kansas State University, US.
web: http://www.cis.ksu.edu/~rvprasad


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct  8 18:19:55 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 08 Oct 2004 22:19:55 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<%5E9d.7075$UP1.6600@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4167128b$0$538$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-08, Byron <DesertLinux at netscape.net> wrote:
> Hi DataAngel,
>
> Welcome to the Python community!
>
> From reading your post, it sounds like you are wanting to use XOR 
> encryption

No, he wants to do an exclusive or of the boolean values of the
strings.

> The result will be "True."  However, if my initial guess is correct that 
> you are wanting to use XOR for strings, it probably because you are 
> wanting a quick way of encrypting data so that basic users won't be able
> to view the information.

No, he explained exactly what he was trying to do, and it had
nothing to do with encryption.  He wants to know if exactly one
(1) of the strings is the empty string.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I hope something GOOD
                                  at               came in the mail today so
                               visi.com            I have a REASON to live!!


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Oct  5 17:03:23 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:03:23 -0400
Subject: Creating new classes on the fly
In-Reply-To: <864d3709041005135353c0214e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <864d3709041005135353c0214e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41630C1B.6030801@rogers.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
...

>I've found two different ways to do it in the documentation:
>
>new.classobj(name, baseclasses, dict)
>  
>
This creates an old-style class (new.classobj being the old-style 
metaclass).

>type(name, bases, dict)
>  
>
This creates a new-style class (i.e. with property support, 
super-support, you know, the fun stuff).

>I assume that both end up calling the same code, but I really don't
>know which one am I supposed to call, in terms of being the most
>'pythonic' way. Are both the same? Is one of them preferred over the
>other?
>  
>
New code should likely be using type.

HTH,
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 13:01:47 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:01:47 +0200
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ck5neo$t2n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4565.1097229132.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ck63hc$7fe$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1glcpp5.1y8vujt1bx0uttN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
   ...
> Looking at it from another angle, the initial for-loop ist just a peculiar
> way to deal with an empty iterable. So the best (i. e. clear, robust and
> general) approach is probably
> 
> items = iter(...)
> try:
>     first = items.next()
> except StopIteration:
>     # deal with empty iterator, e. g.:
>     raise ValueError("need at least one item")
> else:
>     # process remaining data

I think it can't be optimal, as coded, because it's more nested than it
needs to be (and "flat is better than nested"): since the exception
handler doesn't fall through, I would omit the try statement's else
clause and outdent the "process remaining data" part.  The else clause
would be needed if the except clause could fall through, though.


Alex


From HansWL at msn.com  Mon Oct  4 22:57:46 2004
From: HansWL at msn.com (HansWL)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 19:57:46 -0700
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>	<cjj9sd$hg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>	<mailman.4177.1096637180.5135.python-list@python.org>	<691232ce.0410030304.2f84c04b@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4236.1096861162.5135.python-list@python.org>	<691232ce.0410040930.2ed080d9@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4263.1096914230.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <691232ce.0410041857.347f5269@posting.google.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote 
> It would be interesting to know where this performance hit is coming
> from.  What happens if you set backend : TkAgg and interactive : True
> in your rc file, and then fire up a standard python shell
> 
> >>> from matplotlib.matlab import *
> >>> t = arange(0.01, 2.0, 0.01)
> >>> s = sin(2*pi*t)
> >>> figure(1)
> >>> plot(t,s)
> 
> In interactive mode, all the plotting commands are acted upon when
> they are issued, which should enable you to debug which of these
> commands, if any, causes the long delay.

I will try this later and report back.
I did not change Numerix, but edited .matplotlibrc to switch between
Numeric and numarray. TkAgg was on by default.
 
> The other thing I wonder about is, is it possible that Norton is doing
> some checks on python or some of the extension code that could be
> causing the long startup time.  Does it help to turn off the virus
> software?

No. I was aware of this and did disable NAV autoprotection while
trying to figure out what was wrong. No difference was observed. (NAV
does slows down the start up of IrfanView quite a bit after a virus
difination update a while back.)


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 10 05:20:15 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:20:15 +0200
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org><pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org><41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com><ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com><416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<du7fz4n6ozx.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <ckav2q$6tn$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ville Vainio wrote:

>     Grant> I don't know what you mean by that.  Nobody seems to have a
>     Grant> problem with "and" "or" and "not" operators using the truth
>     Grant> values of strings.  What is there about "xor" that
>     Grant> precludes it from behaving similarly?
>
> It's just that logical xor is an extremely rare beast. I would
> probably prefer to see the operation expanded to the more typical
> and-or-nots in real code.

"imp" and "eqv", anyone?

</F>





From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Sun Oct  3 12:52:23 2004
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 09:52:23 -0700
Subject: newbie permission problem
References: <wAL7d.99503$wV.12017@attbi_s54> <7sN7d.593248$gE.589623@pd7tw3no>
	<PUN7d.296691$mD.66455@attbi_s02>
	<azO7d.404372$8_6.311894@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <21064255.0410030852.34c732cf@posting.google.com>

"Ann" <Anna at nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:<azO7d.404372$8_6.311894 at attbi_s04>...
> "Ann" <Anna at nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:PUN7d.296691$mD.66455 at attbi_s02...
> >
> > "Sol Mumey" <smumeyyahoocom at add.dots> wrote in message
> > news:7sN7d.593248$gE.589623 at pd7tw3no...
> > > Ann wrote:
> > > > I am new to python. I have a small program that
> > > > deletes small jpeg files, but I am getting a
> > > > permission error, even though I am the owner of the
> > > > file and the directory has 777 permission. I have
> > > > WIN XP Pro. I have mks toolkit "ls" command.
> > > > Login name is "Philip"
> > > >
> > > > -------------
> > > >
> > > > 36      45      border_l_r2_c3.gif is tiny      <- printed by program
> > > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > > >   File "C:\test2.py", line 28, in ?
> > > >     os.remove(d) # delete the tiny files
> > > > OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'border_l_r2_c3.gif'
> > > >
> > > > C:\>ls -ld . border_l_r2_c3.gif
> > > > drwxrwsrwx   1 Philip   None     0 Oct  2 23:40 .
> > > > -rwxrwxrwa   1 Philip   None   398 Oct  2 22:42 border_l_r2_c3.gif
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Are you sure that the unix-style permission reported by ls are
> > > reflecting the true permissions (and read only attribute) on the file.
> > > We use Cygwin at work, at the permissions reported by ls, etc. are
> > > meaningless with our installation (though that need not be the case with
> > > Cygwin). From the commandline I think you can check/set this with
> > > attrib.exe, if a bunch need to be checked/changed.
> >
> > Yes, I'm not so sure about the output of "ls" myself. (note the 'a'
> > where I would expect an 'x' for the file) I did try the
> > attrib command, but it only showed that the directory is "system"
> > and the file is "archive". Also, I created the file via under my
> > account (ls shows owner = Philip) and I can delete it manually with
> > "rm" or "del" or with a perl script just fine. I also tried using
> > "os.unlink(d)" with the same results. I found another command
> > lsacl to list the access control list, it gives this: (YOGA is my
> > workstation name)
> >
> > C:\>lsacl border-l-r2-c3.gif
> > border-l-r3-c3[1].gif:
> >  ACE: Allow YOGA\Philip            -
> > R,W,X,A,DC,RE,WE,RA,WA,D,RC,WD,O,S
> >  ACE: Allow NT+AUTHORITY\SYSTEM    -
> > R,W,X,A,DC,RE,WE,RA,WA,D,RC,WD,O,S
> >  ACE: Allow BUILTIN\Administrators -
> > R,W,X,A,DC,RE,WE,RA,WA,D,RC,WD,O,S
> >
> 
> I found the problem just now, the file is still open when I tried
> to delete it. If I use
> 
> fp = open("filename.jpg", "rb")
> im = Image.open(fp)
> 
> then I can close fp and delete the file.
> 
> How can I just use
> im = Image.open("filename.jpg")
> without having to use a fp

The following works for me though it's a long way round:
>>> jpeg='filename.jpg'
>>> import cStringIO
>>> im=Image.open(cStringIO.StringIO(file(jpeg,'rb').read()))
>>> os.remove(jpeg)
>>>

I had expected that the following would work too, but it doesn't:
>>> im=Image.open(file(jpeg,'rb'))
>>> os.remove(jpeg)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'filename.jpg'

My opinion is that Image.open( filepointer ) binds the filpointer-object
to a name while StringIO doesn't and the garbagecollector will close the file.

BTW why do you open an imagefile when you want to delete it? If you want to
decide by view which imagefile should be deleted it would be good practice
to open the imagefile, load the image and then close the file.

Regards
Peter


From mike at spindler.us  Tue Oct 19 06:30:07 2004
From: mike at spindler.us (mikeSpindler)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 03:30:07 -0700
Subject: execvp() on Solaris
References: <f197302b.0410180514.4c38809b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5151.1098148373.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f197302b.0410190230.5f17d652@posting.google.com>

You might not be aware - os.system calls execvp.  Thus, when I call
os.system I'm getting execvp errors when I run on Solaris.  Thank you
for the responses so far.  I'd love to hear how to resolve the known
issue of Python not using the system's execvp.  THANK YOU!


Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.5151.1098148373.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, mikeSpindler wrote:
> 
> > resolve the errors wrt execvp().  It's apparently not syntax, but I
> > could be wrong.  Any other thoughts on how to get execvp() working
> > and/or how to cat a file in a new window without bringing tkinter into
> > the discussion?
> >
> > My example:
> >   os.system("xterm -geometry 120x20 -e \"tail -f ./logs/DATAFILE\"&")
> 
> AFAICS, this should be
>     os.system('xterm -geometry 120x20 -e \"tail -f ./logs/DATAFILE\"&')
> 
> But os.system() is not os.execvp()...
> 
> You don't elucidate what your problems with execvp() are..., but if what
> you have works on Linux but not Solaris I'd have to wonder about the
> environment setup for the account:-
>  - path?
>  - library path (for X11 libs)?
>  - different shell?
> 
> With execvp(), the shell shouldn't be involved unless you explicitly
> execute it so you won't get shell variable expansion or asynchronous
> execution (the '&' above).
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
> E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
>         andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen ACT 2616
> Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia


From cce at clarkevans.com  Mon Oct 11 15:16:38 2004
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:16:38 -0400
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041011191638.GB29174@prometheusresearch.com>

On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 11:58:44AM -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
| >If you don't like lambda -- don't use it.   Just beacuse you are
| >unfamilar with a very helpful construct and are unwilling to learn
| >does not mean you should prevent others from continuing to enjoy 
| >one of the more pleasant aspects of Python.
| 
| Except that one of the design principles of Python is that it being easy 
| to *read* is more important than being easy to write

Exactly!  Lambdas make my code easy to read and therefore more
understandable.   I don't use them beacuse they are easier to write,
I use them beacuse they make reviewing source code easier:

  - they put simple expressions that are arguments right
    where they are used
    
  - they don't create random names that you have to worry 
    about name collision or finding something meaningful
    (and not distracting)
    
  - you are certain to know that the chunk of code is not
    used anywhere else, that is, you can freely modify it

Lambdas are all about making code more maintainable.

| Lambdas are hard to read, 

This is _your_ opinion; lots of other people disagree.

| because they're significantly different, 
| syntactically, from any other construct in the language 

This argument is just bogus.  There are lots of things in Python
that are significantly different from each other:

  - functions that return functoins, and hence can().be().chained()
  - using expressions as function arguments
  - list comprehensions
  - *args and **kwargs
  - overridable operators
  - classes, meta-classes
  - etc.

In any of these cases one _could_ of course, find a similar way
to do it with just a turning machine.  But this isn't the point,
the point is to give special syntax to common things that have
specific meaning so that they are easily recognized.

Best,

Clark



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 10:06:52 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:06:52 +0200
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
References: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
Message-ID: <1gljwcn.hu8qmfo9di8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

denis wendum <wendum.denis at pasdepourriels.edf.fr> wrote:

> But my guess to define the method __rlt__ in my class in order to be
> able to evaluate expressions "non_instance < instance" did not work.

Sensible guess, but not the way things work.

> So what are the names (if they exist at all) of the comparison operators
> <,>,== and so on,  when one wants to exend their rigth hand side to a
> user defined (instance of a) class?

Here's how to find out:

>>> class foo:
...   def __getattr__(self, name):
...     print 'looking for %r' % name
...     raise AttributeError, name
... 
>>> f=foo()
>>> 12 < f
looking for '__gt__'
looking for '__coerce__'
looking for '__cmp__'
True
>>> 

See what's happening here?  After determining that int (the type of 12)
cannot deal with comparing 12 with an instance of foo, Python's
implementation of < turns to the right hand side... and asks for a
__gt__ method first!  Makes sense, because 12 < f is presumably going to
be the same thing as f > 12 ... once it doesn't find __gt__ the
implementation continues by trying to coerce f to an int (by checking if
class foo supports __coerce__) and lastly by trying for the old-style
comparison method __cmp__.  But you presumably don't care about that;
rather, the gist of it is: write your __gt__ -- that will also be used
as your "__rlt__" -- and so on!


Alex


From http  Sat Oct  2 16:34:58 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2004 13:34:58 -0700
Subject: Reclaiming (lots of) memory
References: <87lleo6hva.fsf@thomas.local>
Message-ID: <7xr7ogeu4t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Thomas Rast <foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid> writes:
> So, do I really have to do this in two separate processes?  Would it
> help if I implemented the data storage part as a C extension module?
> Or am I worrying too much about a problem that is better left to the
> OS's memory management (i.e. swapping)?
> 
> Of course I'd also appreciate ideas for more efficient data layouts

When faced with such problems I always find it worthwhile to remember
that the phone company managed to issue itemized long-distance bills
to each of its customers, even in the 1960's using mainframe computers
with a few hundred kb of memory and a room full of magtape drives like
you see in old movies.  I ask myself "how would a 1960's mainframe
programmer do this, without megabytes of ram?".

I'm not sure what your dictionary of dictionaries is supposed to do,
but from your dissociated press description it sounds like you want to
look at the pairs of adjacent pairs of words and build up a
probability table.  In that case I'd do something like:

1. Sequentially read the logs files, and for each pair of adjacent words,
   write that pair to a temp file tmp1.
2. Sort tmp1 with os.system("sort").
3. Make a sequential pass through tmp1 to build a second temp file tmp2,
   which is a compressed tmp1.  For example, if tmp1 has the lines
          apple pie
          apple computer
          apple pie
          apple sauce

   then make a single line in tmp2: 

          apple: pie:2,computer:1,sauce:1

Do that in the obvious way by building a temporary dict for the words
that follow "apple".  Also, while doing this, build a Python dict
giving the offset in tmp2 for the line for each word, i.e.

    d['apple'] = ofile.tell()
and similarly for all the other words (you have a Python dict with
325k entries which is each a single int; that shouldn't be too large).
There are of course lots of tradeoffs you can make to give a smaller
dict, if you need to.  You could also use the array module to implement
an int-valued hash table without the overhead of a Python object in each slot.

4. Use os.mmap to map the file tmp2 into memory.  Then to get the
successor words to 'apple', simply use the in-memory dict to get the
appropriate offset in tmp2, read and parse the line from that offset, 
and emit the appropriate word.

5. There's lots of other optimization and compression you can do to
make tmp2 smaller, which can reduce your paging load, but the above
should be enough to get you started.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Oct  4 13:48:58 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 13:48:58 -0400
Subject: OT: Grammatical nitpicks (was Re: python vs c#)
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cjrlou$n3h$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<41616D42.7060909@cenix-bioscience.com>
	<mailman.4253.1096904328.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cjs2ea$buo$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.4253.1096904328.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Aaron Bingham  <bingham at cenix-bioscience.com> wrote:
>Aaron Bingham wrote:
>> Aahz wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not much of a grammatical analyst, so I don't know what you mean by
>>> "genitive form".  The standard forms that I use are zie, zir, zirs, and
>>> zirself.
>>
>> So the genitive (posessive) form is "zirs".
>
>Nevermind, I'm talking nonsense.  The genitive form is clearly "zir".  
>As in "Zir sense of grammer is not very good", right?

Dunno what that's called, but that's certainly the correct way to phrase
that sentence.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little
statesmen and philosophers and divines."  --Ralph Waldo Emerson


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Oct 25 14:47:20 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:47:20 -0400
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Cp6dnfgldtGq1-DcRVn-3g@giganews.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:

> don't even have to GPL your code, you just have to abide by the GPL 
> (i.e., provide source); you could distribute your code under any 
> GPL-compatible license, such as a BSD-style license.

No if you derive from GPL then you must release your program
as GPL and you may not release it with a "GPL compatible"
license.

Otherwise it would be to easy to circumvent it, just get a
GPL program, add a comment, call it something else
and re-release it as BSD.

 From the GPL FAQ:

Q: If a library is released under the GPL (not the LGPL),
does that mean that any program which uses it has to be under the GPL?
A: Yes, because the program as it is actually run includes the library.

Istvan.


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 10:44:52 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:44:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041022T162619-770@post.gmane.org>

Oliver Fromme <olli <at> haluter.fromme.com> writes:
> 
> Type checking at compile time does _not_ necessarily require
> static typing.
> 
> For a counter example, look at O'Caml.  It is a dynamically
> typed functional language (using type inference, pattern
> matchingetc.) with compile-time type checking.

I guess I don't quite understand this example.  Isn't type inference done at 
compile time?  So that at the end of compilation, each variable in an ML 
program has been assigned a type?

I've never done much more than play around with ML, but consider this example:

# let f x = if x > x then 1 else x;;
val f : int -> int = <fun>
# f 1.2;;
Characters 2-5:
  f 1.2;;
    ^^^
This expression has type float but is here used with type int

So what happens here of course is that x is inferred the type int because of 
the if-then-else statement.  And so OCaml doesn't let you pass a float to the 
function.  In a dynamically typed language, I would not expect an error -- any 
type that supports the '>' operator should work just fine in this context.

Could you explain a little more what about OCaml makes you consider it 
dynamically typed?

Steve



From smumeyyahoocom at add.dots  Sun Oct  3 03:00:19 2004
From: smumeyyahoocom at add.dots (Sol Mumey)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 07:00:19 GMT
Subject: newbie permission problem
In-Reply-To: <wAL7d.99503$wV.12017@attbi_s54>
References: <wAL7d.99503$wV.12017@attbi_s54>
Message-ID: <7sN7d.593248$gE.589623@pd7tw3no>

Ann wrote:
> I am new to python. I have a small program that
> deletes small jpeg files, but I am getting a
> permission error, even though I am the owner of the
> file and the directory has 777 permission. I have
> WIN XP Pro. I have mks toolkit "ls" command.
> Login name is "Philip"
> 
> -------------
> 
> 36      45      border_l_r2_c3.gif is tiny      <- printed by program
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\test2.py", line 28, in ?
>     os.remove(d) # delete the tiny files
> OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'border_l_r2_c3.gif'
> 
> C:\>ls -ld . border_l_r2_c3.gif
> drwxrwsrwx   1 Philip   None     0 Oct  2 23:40 .
> -rwxrwxrwa   1 Philip   None   398 Oct  2 22:42 border_l_r2_c3.gif
> 
> 
Are you sure that the unix-style permission reported by ls are 
reflecting the true permissions (and read only attribute) on the file. 
We use Cygwin at work, at the permissions reported by ls, etc. are 
meaningless with our installation (though that need not be the case with 
Cygwin). From the commandline I think you can check/set this with 
attrib.exe, if a bunch need to be checked/changed.


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Oct  5 15:00:57 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:00:57 +0200
Subject: Python Patterns (was: Re: How can I make an existing object
	read-only?)
In-Reply-To: <1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4162ef68$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> ...or implement it by changing the object's *class*...:
> 
> class RO_class(TrueClass):
>     def makeReadWrite(self): self.__class__ = TrueClass
>     def __setattr__(self, n, v=''): raise AttributeError, n
>     __delattr__ = __setattr__
> 
> def makeReadOnly(obj): obj.__class__ = RO_class
> 
> This is a very Pythonic approach to dealing with an object that exists
> in two 'states', each rather persistent and with different behavior; it
> is better performing and neater than using an obj._state and having 'if
> self._state: ... else: ...' statements strewn around.

I think this the kind of solution I think I was searching for!
And should have been able to think up myself.

I really should dust off my old GOF Desing Patterns book,
because your code made me remember the "state" pattern right away :-)

There should be a Python version of that book... I think that
the patterns in it are very easily expressed in Python, and
that Python allows for many other interesting patters ('Borg', to
name one).
This "state" pattern needs a clumsy internal state object in C++
but in Python we can just change the object's class directly,
which is a much more direct implementation of what the pattern
tries to achieve :-)

Thanks Alex

--Irmen de Jong.


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sat Oct  9 23:32:08 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:32:08 -0400
Subject: help me
In-Reply-To: <bM1ad.8006$UP1.5707@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>	<3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>	<mailman.4646.1097373842.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<bM1ad.8006$UP1.5707@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4168AD38.8080209@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
>
> >>> globals()[raw_input("enter name: ")] = 34
> enter name: raw_input
> >>> globals()[raw_input("enter name: ")] = 34
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: 'int' object is not callable
> >>>
>
>                 Andrew
>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com

exec and eval is dangerous stuff for the inexperienced.  Dictionary is 
an excellent idea Andrew.  However, if what he wants to do is as simple 
as the example he gave, he doesn't even need a dictionary.




From meyer at acm.org  Sun Oct 24 04:21:53 2004
From: meyer at acm.org (Andre Meyer)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:21:53 +0200
Subject: Invoker of a method
Message-ID: <417b6620$0$766$3a628fcd@reader10.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Hi Pythoneers

In an application I am developing I want to register the invoker of a 
method call. Is there any way to find out who is invoking an object's 
method? I do not want to rely on the caller telling the callee his name 
explicitly.

thanks
Andre

-- 
Dr. Andre P. Meyer                        http://home.hccnet.nl/a.meyer/
TNO FEL Command & Control and Simulation, http://www.fel.tno.nl/div2/
Delft Cooperation on Intelligent Systems, http://www.decis.nl/


From chumpwad at chump.wad  Sat Oct 16 09:41:53 2004
From: chumpwad at chump.wad (Chump Wad)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:41:53 GMT
Subject: PyQt and Pivy
Message-ID: <41712901.96E76762@chump.wad>

I will now die.  I am too ignorant to make it work.

10.2.setEventCB.py segfaults for me.

It is almost there, but it is not there.  SoQt.init returns a string,
which I can't use as the parent widget of my PyQt derived class.

SoQt.show and mainLoop need a string as a parameter, so my PyQt derived
class can't go there.

I humbly beg of your help.

I don't understand the following; I would love a non-portable linkage to
libsip if it would get me the Qt widget set:

   * In case anybody wonders! yes, i know that one can achieve all of
this
   * in a very simple and elegant fashion by just using the sip library,

   * like e.g. adding the following instead of the structure
declarations
   * and our stunt:
   * #define ANY_TEMP ANY
   * #undef ANY
   * #include <sip.h>
   * #undef ANY
   * #define ANY ANY_TEMP
   *
   *   extern PyObject *sipClass_QEvent;
   *   qev = sipNewCppToSelfSubClass(event, sipClass_QEvent, SIP_SIMPLE
| SIP_PY_OWNED);
   *
   * this works perfectly and is such a lovely solution that i really
wanted
   * to keep it. BUT libsip gets installed into the python site-packages

   * directory and not only would we need to link against libsip but
also
   * against the libqtcmodule for the sipClass_Qevent object. this
SUCKS,
   * adds new library dependencies, which i simply don't want to cope
with
   * and makes the platform independent goal harder to achieve.


I should say that the rest of it works GREAT!  This is a monumental
work.  It is so solid and functional and beautiful.

I thank you very much for this wonderful thing, which someone should
have done long ago, but only you actually accomplished.









From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Fri Oct 22 16:47:20 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 20:47:20 GMT
Subject: Email attachments
Message-ID: <20041022164720.07907.00001788@mb-m24.aol.com>

Is there a way I can put a message together without having to download any
attachments there may be at the same time.  I'm not having any problems dealing
with attachments, but the way I'm doing things makes me download the complete
message first, attachements and all:
mail = []
for j in M.retr(i)[1]:
    mail.append(j.rstrip())
inMail = email.message_from_string('\r\n'.join(mail))

I don't have a real problem per se with this, it's just that I would just as
soon not download the attachments as well at first.  Also I'm wondering, are my
attachments potentially dangerous at the state when I first get them as part of
the email, or are they not potentially dangerous until I binary write that part
of the message into a file(that's how I'm dealing with attachments, if I want
to keep an attachment in the already downloaded complete email, I just write it
to a file.


From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Mon Oct  4 06:44:50 2004
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:44:50 +0200
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
In-Reply-To: <cjr4mp$dj0$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp>
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4211.1096808398.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cjr4mp$dj0$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp>
Message-ID: <416129A2.7080304@cenix-bioscience.com>

Daniel Dittmar wrote:

> John Hunter wrote:
>
>> Read "Hackers and Painters" by Paul Graham, and then give copies to
>> your developers.  He writes compellingly about the benefits of using
>> python (or lisp) is a competitive environment.
>
>
> On the other hand, Paul Graham paints Java programmers as dimwits. So 
> quoting him is likely to start a flamewar. This is perhaps not the 
> best choice from a diplomatic point of view.
>
> Daniel

Hello,

          Exactly a much more objective analysis would be required.  
Point out the pluses and minuses of _both_ languages - that way you will 
get constructive debate, for example your company may say this - J2EE 
defines a common interface for enterprise systems - makes things very 
portable between implementations : +1 Java vs. Java requires every 
method of an interface to be defined, even if you are not using them : 
-1 Java. 

    If you try and say that the simple adoption of python will solve all 
your problems then you are setting yourself up for a fall.  Anticipate 
the questions and if you think that python falls short of 
Java/C#/<insert your favorite language here> - then say so - the people 
who are anti your solutions will then be more willing to accept the 
short falls of their solution in return.

Cheers,

Neil

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
BioInnovations Zentrum
Tatzberg 47
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (0)351 4173 154
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com



From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 25 20:04:42 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:04:42 -0300
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5432.1098719901.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d2543$0$45533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj9du$l12$04$1@news.t-online.com> <Yhgfd.15018$lp6.822@okepread01>
Message-ID: <m3r7nmtkdh.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:

> Looks that way. Time was, authors would use the LGPL for libraries 
> (which was why it was developed in the first place). But if someone puts 
> a module under the GPL then any integrated use of that module is a 
> dervied work and must, if redistributed, be put out under the GPL.

Reading a prior post here, there was one thing that could be done:
writing an interface module, releasing the source for such an interface
module, and communicating with it through pipes, RPC, etc.  It would
separate your code from the other and free you from the obligation of
using GPL.

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct 14 18:45:06 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:45:06 GMT
Subject: The Art of  Pickling: Binary vs Ascii difficulties
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4975.1097792825.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <171d9905.0410141128.3104bb95@posting.google.com>	<416ef368$1@nntp0.pdx.net>	<bSCbd.3337$6k2.349@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4975.1097792825.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <SjDbd.4218$gy1.1827@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

John Hunter wrote:
> Well, if you are a standards wonk and emacs user, you might have fun
> with this little bit of python and emacs code.  If you place rfc.py in
> your PATH

Huh.  Never really figured out how to customize Lisp.

Another solution is to use a browser like Konqueror which
lets users define new "protocols" so that "rfc:20"
expands to the given URL.

Very handy for Qt programming because I can have
"qt:textedit" expand to the documentation for that
module.

Most of the specs I read, btw, aren't RFCs.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com



From charney at charneyday.com  Tue Oct 12 02:32:09 2004
From: charney at charneyday.com (Reg. Charney)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:32:09 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies: October 14, 7:30pm
In-Reply-To: <20041012025410.GA15575@panix.com>
References: <20041012025410.GA15575@panix.com>
Message-ID: <416B7A69.1020007@charneyday.com>

If you wish, I have also been working on a new form of Singleton. Would 
you be interested in discussing it at the start or end of the meeting?

Reg.

Aahz wrote:

>The next meeting of BayPIGgies will be Thurs October 14 at 7:30pm.  In
>lieu of a speaker, we'll be having a Beginner's Roundtable run by Danny
>Yoo.
>
>BayPIGgies meetings are in Stanford, California.  For more information
>and directions, see http://www.baypiggies.net/
>
>
>Before the meeting, we may meet at 6pm for dinner in downtown Palo Alto.
>Discussion of dinner plans is handled on the BayPIGgies mailing list.
>
>
>Advance notice: The November 11 meeting agenda has not been set.  Please
>send e-mail to baypiggies at baypiggies.net if you want to make a
>presentation.
>  
>




From robby at planetargon.com  Sun Oct 17 17:59:41 2004
From: robby at planetargon.com (Robby Russell)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:59:41 -0700
Subject: Python in HTAs
In-Reply-To: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
References: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1098050381.4604.14.camel@vacant>

On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 14:25 -0700, Marcel van den Dungen wrote:
> Does anybody know how to use Python as the scripting language for HTML
> applications? I tried the following, but I get a script error ('Object
> expected') on the body element.
> 
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>Python controlled HTML application</title>
> <hta:application id="oApplication">
> <script language="python">
> def Onload():
>     alert('hello from python')
>     document.all["idspan"] = 'hello from python'
> </script>
> </head>
> <body onload="Onload();">
> <span id="idspan" ></span>
> </body>
> </html>
> 
> Could not find any example on Google either.
> 
> TIA,
> Marcel

This isn't going to work unless your browser has some special plugin to
allow python scripts to run in it. Google probably turned up nothing as
you might be one of the first people to consider this. ;-)

-Robby

-- 
/***************************************
* Robby Russell | Owner.Developer.Geek
* PLANET ARGON  | www.planetargon.com
* Portland, OR  | robby at planetargon.com
* 503.351.4730  | blog.planetargon.com
* PHP/PostgreSQL Hosting & Development
****************************************/

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From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Oct 18 10:34:04 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:34:04 -0500
Subject: interface boilerplate
In-Reply-To: <1glv2i1.11ehuy31n73vnN%aleaxit@yahoo.com> (aleaxit@yahoo.com's
	message of "Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:57:43 +0200")
References: <mailman.5090.1098044946.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glushu.4o1jab1gxj2czN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5114.1098109115.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv2i1.11ehuy31n73vnN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <m2sm8ct7s3.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Alex" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

    Alex> Supporting old versions is never going to be easy -- I don't
    Alex> even have a 2.2 installation around to do such tests, any
    Alex> more.  Perhaps for versions < 2.3 you could simply degrade
    Alex> gracefully to perform no renaming (and for versions >= 2.4
    Alex> do the renaming the right way, by assigning to f.func_name
    Alex> and returning f)... those who choose to stick with 2.2 will
    Alex> just have to account that as one of the many limitations and
    Alex> slow-downs their choice buys them...

It is a pain -- for a fair number of linux boxes, though, 2.2 is still
the default.  Perhaps a better alternative for 2.2 is to simply fall back on
exec 

__fmt = """\
def %(name)s(*args, **kwargs):
    try:
        ret =  gca().%(name)s(*args, **kwargs)
    except ValueError, msg:
        msg = raise_msg_to_str(msg)
        error_msg(msg)
    else:
        draw_if_interactive()
        return ret
%(name)s.__doc__ = Axes.%(name)s.__doc__
"""

for name in _methods:
    exec(__fmt%{'name':name})


JDH


From d.chirila at finsiel.ro  Tue Oct 12 05:55:45 2004
From: d.chirila at finsiel.ro (Dragos Chirila)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:55:45 +0000
Subject: store binary files in mysql
In-Reply-To: <416B7EEA.9030500@alco.co.hu>
References: <416B7EEA.9030500@alco.co.hu>
Message-ID: <416BAA21.3040203@finsiel.ro>

Hi

Use escape_string method from MySQLdb module.

Dragos


Ivan Horvath wrote:
> Dear All,
> 
> i would like to store binary file contents to a mysql database in a 
> mediumblob fields.
> i've got problem when there is a simple quote, double quot, backslash or 
> NUL character in the file content, because these characters are 
> acceptable by mysql only when there is an escape char. before it.
> do you know any solution, how can i replace these characters in order to 
> import it to a mysql table?
> 


-- 
Dragos Chirila
Programmer, Finsiel ROMANIA
44A, Ficusului St. - 71544 Bucharest
Tel: +40 21 2320193
Fax: +40 21 2329807
URL: http://www.finsiel.ro
Jabber: dragos at jabber.finsiel.ro


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 25 18:45:59 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:45:59 -0400
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <upt36buc5.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
	<QPmdndr7xOOG-efcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca> <ur7np9og4.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<VNGdnYlbv67QLObcRVn-sQ@powergate.ca> <upt36buc5.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <Crffd.18154$SW3.6780@fed1read01>

David Bolen wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Have you verified that those calls would *not* accept
>>something like "\\machine/share/path/file"?
> 
> 
> Nope.  Actually, I don't think that was even applicable since the call
> I'm recalling took a UNC machine name but not a full path, so the only
> thing in the parameter was the machine portion.  Although maybe it did
> include the share level.
> 
> 
>>If they accept this, then I would simply argue that the \\machine
>>part has nothing to do with a path, other than the accident
>>of sharing (but doubling) the backslash that we're used to
>>in Windows paths.  It's a machine name, not a path, similar to
>>how C: is a drive name, not a path, and therefore needs special
>>handling.
> 
> 
> I suppose, but I certainly saw UNC as a logical extension of path
> semantics to cross the network boundary (and imagine that the choice
> of \\ was logically consistent with that approach).  It was a way to
> layer a level "above the root" of the filesystem into a path naming
> convention.
> 
As in UNIX United, circa 1983, for example? That was essentially (IIRC) 
a federated filesystem with each machine's root identified byt he 
machine's name. It worked rather well for its time.

> 
>>After all, you don't expect to be able to use C/ instead of C:,
>>and I don't think one should necessarily expect //machine to
>>work instead of \\machine.
> 
Although of course it DOES worek unr Cygwin, a superior environment to 
many on Windows (even though the Twisted guys appear to dislike it).
> 
> Well, we clearly expect different things, which is fine, and shows the
> variety in the universe :-)
> 
> At least for me, knowing that the API permitted me to use
> "/path/to/file.ext" instead of "\path\to\file.ext" made it seem
> logical it would permit "//machine/share/path/file.ext" for
> "\\machine\share\path\file.ext".  Or at least desirable.
> 
No use expecting logic form Microsoft, matey ;-)
> 
>>This is mostly supposition/theory/wild hand-waving, however.
>>I don't know the reality.  If you post a few of the APIs that
>>you mention, I can try to disprove my theory.
> 
> 
> I'll see if I can find at least one again and forward it over.  I seem
> to recall it was while using some of the win32net wrapped APIs to
> interrogate things on a remote server.
> 
> But I'm also willing to just agree that it only impacts the machine
> spec and that you could consider that distinct from any path
> operation.  I was really just qualifying the general comment about
> Win32 accepting forward slashes in all system calls.
> 
> -- David

if-there's-a-nit-to-be-picked-you're-in-the-right-place-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From mauriceling at acm.org  Thu Oct 21 20:43:52 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:43:52 GMT
Subject: Python + Java knowledge
In-Reply-To: <tjfgn016is8t1gmigr81jd5dpuq5q4f4nn@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.5169.1098194201.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4175ed72$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<tjfgn016is8t1gmigr81jd5dpuq5q4f4nn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <417857c2$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>


> Not that amazing, most imprerative programming languages(which is
> most programming languages!) are very similar. Once you know how
> to do variable declarations, IO, loops, branches and functions
> you can start writing code. After that the big lhurdle is
> learning the library and thats down to practice mainly.
> 
As they say, learning to speak a new language isn't tough, but learning 
the vocabulary takes a whole lifetime.

> Again not really. Most reasonable sized projects will use
> multiple languages. Certainly the minimum number of languages on
> a single project I've worked on was 5 (C, awk, c-shell, SQL, DOS)
> and I've been on several with over a dozen. The wackiest was  16
> languages - but that was frankly excessive and an indication of
> poorly coordinated design more than necessity.
> 
I think I did read that Boeing 747 has programs written in like a few 
hundred languages...
>
> 
> Are you sure you don't know some SQL and DOS Batch language, or
> Unix shell dialects? And if you know Java and C then C++ is but a
> step away... Add those to your 5 and suddenly you know 9 and a
> dozen languages doesn't seem so far away does it? :-)
> 
Come to think, that's a fair bit, I know SQL, DOS batch, Bash. My 
earliest toy language is QBasic (and I'm impresed that Borders still has 
a book on it.... QBasic by example). I can't say that I don't know C++ 
because I did a subject on OOP and it uses C++. I used 'cout' more than 
printf. That's 10 already... wow.... Maybe we should start a poll....

maurice


From nicolas at lehuen.com  Sat Oct 16 12:53:34 2004
From: nicolas at lehuen.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:53:34 +0200
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5048.1097941256.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02>
	<mailman.5048.1097941256.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4171520e$0$29507$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
>>I have a number of strings, containing wildcards (e.g. 'abc#e#' where # 
>>is anything), which I want to match with a test string (e.g 'abcdef'). 
>>What would be the best way for me to store my strings so lookup is as 
>>fast as possible?
> 
> 
> Start with a Trie, and virtually merge branches as necessary.
> 
>  - Josiah
> 

Yup, you might also have a look at the Aho-Corasick algorithm, which can 
match a test string against a big number of strings quite efficiently :

http://www-sr.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~buehler/AC/AC.html

You'll have to adapt the algorithm so that it can handle your wilcard, 
though. I found it easy to implement the '.' (one character wildcard), 
but the '.*' (zero or more character wildcard) forces you to have 
backtracking.

But if you can use the regexp engine, do not hesitate, it will save you 
a lot of headaches. Unless of course you're a student and your teacher 
asked you this question ;).

Regards,

Nicolas


From hellas_74 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 16 05:50:17 2004
From: hellas_74 at hotmail.com (Hellas)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:50:17 +0200
Subject: operation with strings and numbers
References: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it> <du7acun3kvz.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckqqp2$2om$1@news.flashnet.it>
Message-ID: <ckqr3k$2tu$1@news.flashnet.it>

>I told "italian boy" only for my English that's orrible
>
> Everyone says that in italian the english school is not good
in Italy
> Thanks for suppport
support
>
Excuse me 




From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Oct 12 09:37:35 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:37:35 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <416b9eed$0$11828$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <20041012133735.19317.1397832015.divmod.quotient.1582@ohm>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:07:57 +0200, "Nicolas Lehuen" <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote:
>
> "Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> a =E9crit dans le message de =
> news:1pDad.22529$5O5.5713 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > Luis P Caamano:
> >=20
> > > Therefore, fixing the GIL was always in competition with existing =
> code
> > > and libraries, and it always lost because it was (and still is)
> > > considered "not worth the effort."
> >=20
> >    Greg Stein implemented a "free-threaded" version of Python in 1996 =
> and
> > had another look in 2000.
> >=20
> > http://python.tpnet.pl/contrib-09-Dec-1999/System/threading.README
> > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-April/003605.html
> >=20
> >     So, it is not the initial implementation of a GIL-free Python that =
> is
> > the stumbling block but the maintenance of the code. The poor =
> performance of
> > free-threaded Python contributed to the lack of interest.
> 
> Yeah, and the poor performance of the ActiveState Python for .NET =
> implementation led them to tell that the CLR could not be efficient in =
> implementing Python. Turns out that the problem was in the =
> implementation, not the CLR, and that IronPython gives pretty good =
> performances.
> 
> It's not because an implementation gives poor performance that the whole =
> free-threaded concept is bad.
> 
> Plus, the benchmarks is highly questionable. Compare a single threaded =
> CPU intensive program with a multi-threaded CPU intensive program, the =
> single threaded program wins. Now compare IO intensive (especially =
> network IO) programs, the multi-threaded program wins. Granted, you can =
> built high performing asynchronous frameworks (Twisted or medusa come to =
> mind), but sooner or later you'll have to use threads (see the DB =
> adapter for Twisted).

  Uh, no.  Threads are useful for supporting libraries with blocking APIs.  Nothing about database access requires threads.  Twisted uses threads DB-API 2.0 specifies a blocking API, and it is useful to support DB-API 2.0 modules.

  Several SQL modules provide an asynchronous API which can be used without threads.

  When it comes to network-bound tasks, single-threaded wins the performance contest.

  Jp


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Fri Oct  8 16:57:13 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:57:13 -0400
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <20041008204409.GA5869@unununium.org>
References: <4166F64A.5080504@kzoo.edu> <20041008204409.GA5869@unununium.org>
Message-ID: <4166FF29.1000704@kzoo.edu>

Phil Frost wrote:

>^ is the bitwise xor operator. Performing bitwise operations on strings
>doesn't make much sense, so it's invalid. You can define a logical xor
>function like so:
>
>xor = lambda p, q: (p and not q) or (not p and q)
>
>or equivalently:
>
>xor = lambda p, q: bool(p) != bool(q)
>
>On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 04:19:22PM -0400, dataangel wrote:
>  
>
>>I wrote a function to compare whether two strings are "similar" because 
>>I'm using python to make a small text adventure engine and I want to it 
>>to be responsive to slight mispellings, like "inevtory" and the like. To 
>>save time the first thing my function does is check if I'm comparing an 
>>empty vs. a non-empty string, because they are to be never considered 
>>similar. Right now I have to write out the check like this:
>>
>>   if str1 and str2:
>>       if not str1 or not str2:
>>           return 0
>>
>>Because python won't let me do str1 ^ str2. Why does this only work for 
>>numbers? Just treat empty strings as 0 and nonempty as 1.
>>
>>Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for detecting if 
>>two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for strings shouldn't be 
>>supported. Am I missing something? Inparticular, I think it'd be cool to 
>>have "xor" as opposed to "^". The carrot would return the resulting 
>>value, while "xor" would act like and/or do and return the one that was 
>>true (if any).
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
Urk, ran into a little trouble with your code (the first one):

 >>> xor("", "") == False
False
 >>> xor("", "") == True
False

I'm a python newbie so I'm not sure how something can niether evaluate 
to be true nor false at the same time :P Bug?



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct 13 14:49:58 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:49:58 -0700
Subject: threads and sockets
In-Reply-To: <ckj6vf$85o$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.4826.1097666075.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckj6vf$85o$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20041013112819.0937.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> > how can i stop a server socket running in a thread other than the main
> > thread? if the server socket was a local variable of the function started
> > by the child thread, would calling join work?
> 
> Short answer: you can't, and join won't help. Use select on sockets, with a
> timeout, or use twisted.

More specifically:

def serverthread(sock):
    while not quit:
        try:
            select(sock, sock, sock, 1)
        except:
            #handle errors, but don't use a bare except in real code
    #close sock if necessary

 - Josiah



From kosh at aesaeion.com  Thu Oct 28 17:56:10 2004
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:56:10 -0600
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
In-Reply-To: <fr2852-cj5.ln1@lairds.us>
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.5625.1098987033.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fr2852-cj5.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <200410281556.10269.kosh@aesaeion.com>

On Thursday 28 October 2004 3:08 pm, Cameron Laird wrote:

> I want to reinforce one of Kosh's observations:  for real-world
> applications, Python is often FASTER than C.  Not at least a
> hundredth as fast, or at least a tenth as fast, but the-customers-
> complain-about-the-C-coded-version-but-love-the-Python-based-one:
> FASTER.
>

Here is the method I see on making programs fast in python.

Step 1: Make sure the program works  (Who cares how slow it is if it does not 
get the job done)

Step 2: Go through the program and see where you can simplify it. I know many 
find it amazing but overall the shorter and simpler your python code is the 
faster it tends to run. However the point of this step is not speed that is 
just a side benefit. The point is that your code is now easier to read, fix 
etc.

Step 3: If during the writing of your code and cleaning it up you are not 
duplicating features available in the standard python install use the built 
in ones instead. They get a lot more testing, are far less likely to contain 
bugs, it is code you don't have to maintain etc. This will make your code 
even simpler to read and understand and also shorter and will likely get rid 
of more bugs.

Step 4: Profile your code. Now that your code is nice and clean it is far 
easier to understand. This also makes the profiler information far more 
useful since you can more easily see what the problem is. At this point think 
carefully about the design and algorithm choice. Fix those problems first and 
then fix up the speed issues by using better designs in python. Make sure 
while you are fixing up speed issues that the code is still short and simple.

Step 5: If you are on a system that psyco works for use that sometimes it 
helps a lot and it trivial to add.

Step 6: Look for outside libraries to use like numarray, pil etc. It is better 
to reuse code then it is to write more especially if you try and stay with 
reusing larger projects since they get a lot more work on optimization and 
debugging then you can do. Besides reinventing the wheel takes too much time.

By this point your code should be pretty darn fast, short, easy to understand 
and fairly easy to debug.

Step 7: As a last resort if your program is still not fast enough go ahead and 
write code in a lower level language and call it from python. However be 
careful with this step and make sure you really need to do it. The code you 
write in a lower level language is far more likely to be buggy then anything 
else up to this point and it will also usually take a fair bit of time to 
actually write something in a low level language faster then what the above 
steps have aleady given in gains.

At any point along this process you can stop if your code is fast enough and 
for most people there is no need to go beyond step 6. 

Remember the point of all of this is to get good software written not brag 
about how cool you are for writing stuff in a lower level language and 
wasting a customers time and money. Doing as much as possible in python and 
using libraries saves a lot of time and money and gives a better result 
overall. Then end result of this is also your programs tend to be a lot 
faster then their low level language counterparts since it takes so much time 
to optimize in a low level language. So while others still have a program 
that will often times before 2-10x slower despite being in a "faster 
language" you are working on adding new features, makng your app even faster 
etc.


Another minor point for this is that each new python version often adds a lot 
of very useful features for making your code simpler, faster, more memory 
efficient etc. It is often worth it to take the time and convert the program 
to use the features in a newer version of python. Things like sets, 
generators, genexps etc can save a lot of code and memory. 


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Tue Oct 12 03:04:32 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:04:32 +0200
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
In-Reply-To: <8f17f4bc.0410111438.7d73466f@posting.google.com>
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4538.1097192656.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8f17f4bc.0410080849.51fbdcfa@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62@posting.google.com>
	<a7a67196.0410082348.36fd45a@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410091859.39a6c028@posting.google.com>
	<416a53cd$0$16541$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<8f17f4bc.0410111438.7d73466f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041012070432.GL1048@zoran.com>

Hello Ali,

> import Tkinter
> def add_rows(w, titles, rows):
>     t.state = 'normal'
      w.state = 'normal'
>     for r in rows:
>         for t, v in zip(titles, r):
>             w.insert("end", "%s:\t%s\n" % (t, v))
>         w.insert("end", "\n")
> 
> app = Tkinter.Tk()
> t = Tkinter.Text(app)
> t.pack()
> info = [['Ali',18],
>         ['Zainab',16],
>         ['Khalid',18]]
> add_rows(t, ["Name", "Age"], info)
> app.mainloop()

HTH.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com>
http://tebeka.spymac.net
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 27 15:09:03 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:09:03 +0200
Subject: how to check if URL cannot be opened
In-Reply-To: <417fd54a$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
References: <99ca2e2f.0410270810.222ebad0@posting.google.com>
	<417fd54a$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <417FF24F.2080901@hotmail.com>

> This is the code I use with python greater than 2.3.3:
> 
> import urllib2
> import socket
> 
> def checkUrl(url, timeout=5, SSL=0):
>   """Checks an url for a python version greater
>      than 2.3.3.
>   """
> 
>   defTimeOut=socket.getdefaulttimeout()
>   socket.setdefaulttimeout(timeout)
>   found=1
>   try:
>     urllib2.urlopen(url)
>   except (urllib2.HTTPError, urllib2.URLError,
>           socket.error, socket.sslerror):
>     found=0
>   socket.setdefaulttimeout(defTimeOut)
>   return found
Ops, sorry, the SSL parameter isn't being used there, so you can delete it.


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 13:35:19 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:35:19 -0400
Subject: __author__
In-Reply-To: <cjk44b$294$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>
	<VtydnQODWZ6x78DcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<10lqsl4ma3pq33@corp.supernews.com>
	<PMadnSzsW4mcEMDcRVn-qA@powergate.ca>
	<cjk44b$294$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <-tidnddkYpHECMDcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>

Michael Hoffman wrote:
> Peter L Hansen wrote:
[re __version__]
>> Very many third party packages I have installed.  It's
>> not that it is *consumed* by anything, but that it seems to
>> be a very widely used convention.
> 
> Probably because Guido suggests it in the Python Style Guide, PEP 8:
> 
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0008.html

Checking that page.... it appears the suggestion was more specific
than that:

"""If you have to have RCS or CVS crud in your source file, do it as
     follows.

         __version__ = "$Revision: 1.25 $"
         # $Source: /cvsroot/python/python/nondist/peps/pep-0008.txt,v $
"""

Perhaps those who have used it for a more typical version number,
ala __version__ = '1.2.34', have expanded the usage beyond what
Guido recommended.

I suspect a majority of modules actually use VERSION in preference
to __version__, maybe because many authors didn't interpret the
PEP8 comment as widely as some did.

(I've tended to use VERSION, I believe, but I'm moving towards
using a build.xml file containing a variety of meta-information
for the entire package, rather than an embedded constant.)

-Peter


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Wed Oct 13 14:11:53 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:11:53 +0200
Subject: Snakelets and WSGI
In-Reply-To: <S29bd.33311$Z14.13466@news.indigo.ie>
References: <mailman.4806.1097643533.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xN8bd.33308$Z14.13411@news.indigo.ie>
	<S29bd.33311$Z14.13466@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <416d6fe9$0$42417$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Thanks for all the info, guys.
I will now digest it :)

--Irmen


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Oct  1 18:25:15 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:25:15 -0700
Subject: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal
 flowafter an exception is raised)
References: <4b39d922.0410011152.31fb1dae@posting.google.com>
	<khj7d.18496$H11.569042@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <415DD94B.EF46E7D7@alcyone.com>

gabriele renzi wrote:

> I don't understand: why resumable exceptions should be ignored after
> they propagate for a limited number of frames?
> 
> the only idea of resumable exceptions I have is that they allow you to
> ,
> well, resume excution from the point they were raised.

Right.  The idea is that you can catch the exception and resume it, in
which case execution continues from the point that the resumable
exception was _raised_.  The exception, when caught, can still be
reraised (and another catcher resuming it will still cause it to resume
from the original point it was raised).  If the exception is not caught,
then it acts as a normal exception and halts the program with a stack
trace.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ The color is red / Under my shoe
    -- Neneh Cherry


From fakeaddress at nowhere.org  Wed Oct  6 00:04:56 2004
From: fakeaddress at nowhere.org (Bryan Olson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 04:04:56 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>	<cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <I9K8d.24660$QJ3.568@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
 > Aahz wrote:
 >>Alan Kennedy wrote:
 >>
 >>>I agree that it could potentially be a serious hindrance for cpython if
 >>>"multiple core" CPUs become commonplace. This is in contrast to jython
 >>>and ironpython, both of which support multiple-cpu parallelism.
 >>>
 >>>Although I completely accept the usual arguments offered in defense of
 >>>the GIL, i.e. that it isn't a problem in the great majority of use
 >>>cases, I think that position will become more difficult to defend as
 >>>desktop CPUs sprout more and more execution pipelines.

I have to agree with Alan.  The major chip vendors are telling
us that the future is multi-processor.

 >>Perhaps.  Then again, those pipelines will probably have their work cut
 >>out running firewalls, spam filters, voice recognition, and so on.  I
 >>doubt the GIL will make much difference, still.

I don't know of any quantitative demonstration either way, but
demands on computers tend to be bursty.  Frequently, a single
process has a lot of tasks that suddenly demanding computation,
while all other processes are quiet.  A GIL is a killer.

 > Actually I doubt that loosing the GIL would make that much performance
 > difference even on a real (not HT) 4-way box ->
 > What the GIL buys us is no lock contention and no locking overhead
 > with Python.
 >
 > And before somebody cries out, just think how the following trivial
 > statement would happen.
 >
 > a = b + c
 > Lock a
 > Lock b
 > Lock c
 > a = b + c
 > Unlock c
 > Unlock b
 > Unlock a

If that happens frequently, the program has blown it rather
badly.

 > So basically you either get a really huge number of locks (one per
 > object) with enough potential for conflicts, deadlocks and all the other
 > stuff to make it real slow down the ceval.
 >
 > One could use less granularity, and lock say the class of the object
 > involved, but that wouldn't help that much either.

There's a significant point there in that threads do well with
course granularity, and badly with finely parallel algorithms.
But if we look at how sensible multi-threaded programs work, we
see that the threads share little writable data.  Thread
contention is surprisingly rare, outside of identifiable hot-
spots around shared data-structures.

 > So basically the GIL is a design decision that makes sense, perhaps it
 > shouldn't be just called the GIL, call it the "very large locking
 > granularity design decision".
 >
 > And before somebody points out that other languages can use locks too.
 > Well, other languages have usually much lower level execution model than
 > Python. And they usually force the developer to deal with
 > synchronization primitives. Python OTOH had always the "no segmentation
 > fault" policy -> so locking would have be "safe" as in "not producing
 > segfaults". That's not trivial to implement, for example reference
 > counting isn't trivially implementable without locking (at least
 > portably).

It's not trivial to implement, but it is implementable, and is
so valuable that languages that do it are likely to antiquate
those that do not.  For example, Java strictly specified what
the programmer can assume and what he cannot.  Updates to 32-bit
integers are always atomic, updates to 64-bit integers are not.
The Java VM (with the Java libraries) does not crash because of
application-program threading mistakes; or at least if it does
everyone recognizes it as a major bug.  As presently
implemented, Java both allows more thread-concurrency than
Python, and is more thread-safe.

 > So, IMHO, there are basically the following design decisions:
 > GIL: large granularity
 > MSL: (many small locks) would slow down the overall execution of Python
 >      programs.
 > MSLu: (many small locks, unsafe) inacceptable because it would change
 >       Python experience ;)

One-grain-at-a-time is quickly becoming unacceptable regardless
of the granularity.


-- 
--Bryan


From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Mon Oct 25 14:41:13 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:41:13 -0400
Subject: fastest table lookup
Message-ID: <cljhc9$cqe$1@sea.gmane.org>

I need a fairly small lookup table, and I'm wondering which data python data
structure would be fastest.  I could use a list, tuple, dictionary, numeric
array, or maybe plain python array.  The table would be indexed by simple
integers and would be dense (filled).



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 08:13:04 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:13:04 -0300
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <4163ADA5.8020105@cenix-bioscience.com>
References: <mailman.4227.1096839829.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fu-dnW0ayarAGf3cRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
	<a321m0ptb8j9rfq01mrd5pn9vg791njquf@4ax.com>
	<opmdnfljLrvGPf3cRVn-qQ@powergate.ca>
	<nkc4m0dkiqqkrmlouib0rmcl8sqv6hnb0u@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4345.1096989164.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mq16m0lp7t7i1o71rf3q5g0mn0en19nh92@4ax.com>
	<864d37090410051537477555f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4163ADA5.8020105@cenix-bioscience.com>
Message-ID: <864d37090410060513141daf6@mail.gmail.com>

Just a few clarifications:

On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:32:37 +0200, Neil Benn <benn at cenix-bioscience.com> wrote:
>     To the money men thing - if that is your experience then the company
> was run incorrectly - most people I speak to - a purchase decision is
> made between the user, on -site engineer, finance and managers.  Any
> company in which the finance department purchases equipment without
> consulting the people involved in the process is bad, bad - bad!

For "money men", I meant non-techies looking at the bottom line, not
only the finance department. Upper management in general -- they're
not comfortable looking at the tech details, but they know how much
does it cost, and how much they can save with a new control/automation
system. It's a reasonable decision-making procedure, in economic
terms. But it still leaves out a lot of technical-related aspects --
that's where a good in-house engineer could make a difference.
 
> >When the market finally awakes from the stone age, you'll surely start
> >to get more calls like this. Not only from people relinking, but
> >patches, and *real* bug tickets found by your very customers. Get used
> >to it. You can't complain this way once the market is open.
> >
> >
>     Yes you can, if you open something up you will _still_ get people
> screwing things up.  Suppose a customer smashes a new machine up because
> he or she 'had a play' with the machine using the low level code (if  I
> wasn't meant to use this code then why did you give it to me?).  The as
> the vendor what happens next; the customer will either lie - leading the
> vendor to determine whether or not to pull the customer up and charge
> them; they could tell the truth and beg/insist on not paying for the
> repair or they could pay up - which will sour the vendor/user
> relationship.  Personally, I _never_ take a machine apart unless I've
> been trained to do it.  I also set out the terms of what happens if I
> screw up with the vendor before I accept and they give me the control
> codes.  If you open-source this stuff then you lose this control and
> people will smash your machines up - the only thing you can count on is
> people making mistakes!!

I meant to say that 'you can't complain that way', in the sense that,
once open, you can't just refuse to support a customer that just broke
up your machine. In fact, it's *never* a good idea -- but in a closed
market, one can get away with it, while in an open market, people will
have more freedom to look for the better *service* they can find.
Customer service will be *more* important then than it is now.
 
>     I agree that the industry is behind but open-sourcing an industry
> will not immediately remove all the problems and issues - that's too
> simplistic a view point.

Fully agreed. It's also interesting to remark that the LGPL, or the
BSD licenses allow for a mixed environment with open source &
commercial licenses, so it's not like everything will be open. There
will be closed apps -- only that the closed apps will make use of open
source libraries. Hopefully, even the closed apps will have open
interfaces. That's a nice mix.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 27 15:50:07 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:50:07 -0400
Subject: wxPython - get text from wxTextCtrl on a seperate frame
In-Reply-To: <63d215dd.0410270526.551740a9@posting.google.com>
References: <63d215dd.0410270526.551740a9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <C62dnYK2h5VzZuLcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>

Russ Phillips wrote:
> I'm just starting to learn Python & wxPython. I have a frame named
> frSend in a file fSend. On this frame is a wxTextCtrl named txtMsg. I
> have a module named defs.py
> 
> I would like to get the value of txtMsg from within defs.py
> 
> I tried the following:
> 
>     BodyText = fSend.frSend.txtMsg.GetValue ()
> 
> When I run it, I get the following error:
> 
>     AttributeError: class frSend has no attribute 'txtMsg'

As stated in this error message, you are referring to
a wx.Frame *class*, not an instance, and apparently not
what you thought you were doing.  Note the difference
in the error messages produced below:

 >>> class A:
...   pass
...
 >>> a = A()
 >>>
 >>> a.test
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'test'
 >>> A.test
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: class A has no attribute 'test'


-Peter


From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 18:31:19 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 15:31:19 -0700
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>

I have a the list:

info = [['Ali',18],
        ['Zainab',16],
        ['Khalid',18]]

I want this info to show on a tk window like this:

|--|------------------------|
|TK|Blah                    |
|--|------------------------|
|Name: Ali                  |
|Age:  18                   |
|                           |
|Name: Zainab               |
|Age:  16                   |
|                           |
|Name: Khalid               |
|Age:  18                   |
|---------------------------|

I was wondering how to do this?


From ian at cottee.org  Mon Oct  4 10:23:45 2004
From: ian at cottee.org (Ian J Cottee)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:23:45 +0900
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4241.1096898089.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4211.1096808398.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cjr4mp$dj0$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp>	<5eu732-2gg.ln1@suse.zobbo.org>
	<mailman.4241.1096898089.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41615CF1.5030208@cottee.org>

Neil Benn wrote:
> Ian J Cottee wrote:
> 
>> Daniel Dittmar wrote:
>>
>>> On the other hand, Paul Graham paints Java programmers as dimwits. So 
>>> quoting him is likely to start a flamewar. This is perhaps not the 
>>> best choice from a diplomatic point of view.
>>
>>
>>
>> That is not what he said or meant. As he himself clarifies:
>>
>> """In a recent talk I said something that upset a lot of people: that 
>> you could get smarter programmers to work on a Python project than you 
>> could to work on a Java project.
>>
>> I didn't mean by this that Java programmers are dumb. I meant that 
>> Python programmers are smart. It's a lot of work to learn a new 
>> programming language. And people don't learn Python because it will 
>> get them a job; they learn it because they genuinely like to program 
>> and aren't satisfied with the languages they already know.
>>
>> Which makes them exactly the kind of programmers companies should want 
>> to hire. Hence what, for lack of a better name, I'll call the Python 
>> paradox ... """
>>
>> http://www.paulgraham.com/pypar.html
>>
>> Ian
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> You can quote it in different ways :
> 
> ---
> But when you choose a language, you're also choosing a community. The 
> programmers you'll be able to hire to work on a Java project won't be as 
> smart <http://www.paulgraham.com/pypar.html> as the ones you could get 
> to work on a project written in Python
> ---

(disclaimer - it's late, very tired and should go to bed soon, blah 
blah, yada yada)

Anyway - he explains the reasoning. The reasoning is that if you took 
100 programmers who call themselves Java Programmers and 100 programmers 
who call themselves Python Programmers you are most likely going to find 
different characteristics within the two groups. Python programmers are 
unlikely to be as focussed on financial reward as Java programmers. 
Python programmers are however more likely to be endowed with a love of 
the art of programming.

Now I'm not sure if I agree with the statement and frankly, having two 
kids and an expensive wife I'm not sure if I'd call myself intelligent 
for NOT jumping onto the Java bandwagon ;). But I do understand the point.

> This is from his _own_website - he then follows it up with :
> 
> ---
> Though, frankly, the fact that good hackers prefer Python to Java should 
> tell you something about the relative merits of those languages.
> ---

Elsewhere he states who he believes to be great hackers. He knows all of 
them and therefore I guess he knows what they prefer. I think he also 
says that he doesn't feel he can pass judgment on people he does not 
know (or has worked with). So it might just be that he doesn't get on 
with Java programmers of course ;)

> 
> Next we have :
> 
> ---
> And of all the great programmers I can think of who don't work for Sun, 
> on Java, I know of zero.

As above

> ---
> 
>    On the retract posted above :
> 
> ---
> It's a lot of work to learn a new programming language.
> -- 
> 
>    The response on this would be - 'but you just told me that python is 
> 'easy to learn''.

I agree with him and you. Python is easy to learn but it's still a lot 
of work to drop your current language, your knowledge of it and risk 
moving elsewhere. Especially if you are taking your employers (or 
employees) with you.

>    Although that was probably retracted afterwards - the fact that that 
> quote exists will be picked up people.  I'm not insulting the quality of 
> writing as it is a very well written article - it just isn't gonna help 
> anyone trying to advocate python in a sensible business, that kind of 
> retort sounds like an American election campaign!!

Ooooh ... that hurt! But I agree with that. I don't think he's planning 
at talking at any Java conventions soon. I just don't agree he's calling 
Java programmers stupid.

peace, beer, cool things

Ian


From dev at null.oo  Mon Oct  4 11:08:20 2004
From: dev at null.oo (Pinke Panke)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 15:08:20 GMT
Subject: XML and UnicodeError
Message-ID: <Xns9578AE59045A7devnulloo@130.133.1.19>

Dear people,

I wrote a python script to create html files. The structure was stored in 
a nested array. For easier maintaining at any time I desribe the 
structure in XML, using the minidom parser and a small function to 
convert the XML structure into the array structure. So far so good. 

Then the mess started. The XML document is described as utf-8, stored as 
utf-8. iso-8859-1 makes no difference in this case.

When an character > 128, e.g. an umlaut, occurs my string raises errors. 
An example:

headline = structure[0]
pagetext = structure[1]
foo = headline + "bar" + pagetext
>>> UnicodeError

In my script there are many of such operations. The simple example is 
solved easily with appending .encode('iso-8859-1') at the structure 
statements. So far not so nice but ok. I hope there would be a simpler 
solution.

But there are also string replacements via regexes. An example to make a 
picture of it:
pat = re.compile('<putithere>')
foo = 'def'
bar = 'abc<putithere>ghi'
htmlcode = pat.sub(foo,bar)

Appending .encode(...) to foo and bar does not fix the UnicodeError.

Is there any solution, something I forgot or I could make better? Is 
there any logic behind it? ;-)

TIA.
Martin


From comfortably007numb-python at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 13:29:55 2004
From: comfortably007numb-python at yahoo.com (Venkatesh Prasad Ranganath)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:29:55 GMT
Subject: ANN: eric v. 3.5.0 available
In-Reply-To: <4o7532-q8g.ln1@stargate.solsys.priv>
References: <4o7532-q8g.ln1@stargate.solsys.priv>
Message-ID: <n2f9d.1718$Lk3.516@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>

Detlev Offenbach wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am proud to announce the immediate availability of eric v. 3.5.0. It is
> available via
> 
> http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html
> 
> or
> 
> http://eric-ide.sourceforge.net
> 
> This release includes some new features and a bunch of usability
> enhancements. For details see the attached release notes.
> 
> Regards
> Detlev
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> This is a feature relase of the eric3 Python IDE. The most notable feature enhancements are:
> 
> Editor:
> - multiple views to the same document
> - lexer support for Perl and Bash
> - automatic syntax checks of Python files upon save/open
> - syntax check for Quixote page template files
> - autosave feature
> - limit the effect of a search and search/replace to a range of lines
> 
> Debugger:
> - show contents of simple Qt-types while debugging
> - add breakpoints while the debugger is executing
> 
> Python shell:
> - a Python shell based on the QScintilla widget with autocompletion,
>   calltips and syntax highlighting
> 
> Interface:
> - new dialogs to compare files
> - enhanced the file/class browser
> - a new window layout called "floating windows"
> - a new icon set based on crystal icons
> 
> Translations:
> - French translations
> 
> Others:
> - improved Subversion integration
> - drag and drop support
> - single instance mode
> - enhanced unicode support
> 
> Please note that Python versions prior to 2.2.0 are not supported anymore.

How do you change the font used to display the python shell?

-- 

Venkatesh Prasad Ranganath,
Dept. Computing and Information Science,
Kansas State University, US.
web: http://www.cis.ksu.edu/~rvprasad


From antivirus at inty.net  Fri Oct 29 10:54:45 2004
From: antivirus at inty.net (antivirus at inty.net)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:54:45 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Virus notification
Message-ID: <200410291454.i9TEsj2X049136@hale.inty.net>


THIS IS AN AUTOMATED MESSAGE, PLEASE READ IT CAREFULLY

Reference: hl041029i9TEsHK8048135

You should know that your recent email message detailed below was
identified as potentially containing a virus.

To:      robin.marlow at dps-int.com
From:    python-list at python.org
Date:    Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:54:11 +0700
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details


Viruses found:
     Potentially executable attachment detected (robin.marlow at dps-int.com)

Please refer to the Sophos website http://www.sophos.com/ for further
virus information.

The recipient(s) of your email have been informed that the
email has been blocked.

The message has not been delivered. It will remain quarantined until
the recipient authorises its delivery. After 30 days the email will
be automatically deleted from the quarantine area.

Please note that as a matter of policy certain attachments types are
blocked by default based on file extension. If you have a legitimate file
to send which is being blocked, please consider renaming the extension or
enclosing it within a ZIP file.

--
The intY anti-virus team.
http://www.inty.net/

INTYVIRUSNOTIFY


From mark at pyzine.com  Sat Oct 30 16:42:08 2004
From: mark at pyzine.com (Mark)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:42:08 +0200
Subject: Win32+Zope+Python+Databases: What are my options? 
Message-ID: <2AB70F6C-2AB4-11D9-8136-000D932A0486@pyzine.com>

Hi,

I caught this thread a little late.

You might want to consider looking at the mxODBC DA for Zope.

ZopeMag, the sister publication of Py has published a freely available 
review of this (commercial) DA.

Here is the link.

http://www.zopemag.com/Issue008/Section_Products/product_mxODBC.html

Cheers,

Mark



From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Mon Oct 25 20:08:08 2004
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 17:08:08 -0700
Subject: Ubuntu Linux loves Python
References: <cjmc42$420$1@wheel2.two14.net>
	<l79qn0hstavonfavcmbfcp2o8ffahv81n6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0410251608.543db686@posting.google.com>

I'm also in the eval process with it, I've been looking to put a linux
distro on  one of my smp machines for a while now, tried ubuntu over
the weekend, and so far it's pretty nice.  I'm still wrestling with
some Samba issues (nothing's as easy as Xandros XFM, sadly), but it's
coming along.  I do like having synaptic package install built in,
that's pretty cool.  And desktop sharing in a gnome system is awesome.
 Generally, it's a nice and clean distro, not too bloated, but not
lacking in the essentials.  If I can get past the samba trouble
without too much hassle, I fully expect it to replace my xandros and
suse machines.

----- Corey

Thomas <2002 at weholt.org> wrote in message news:<l79qn0hstavonfavcmbfcp2o8ffahv81n6 at 4ax.com>...
> I've been looking for a linux distro with focus on python development
> for years, even dreamed about making one myself, and when it's based
> on debian as well, it's like a dream come true.
> 
> Installation is short and sweet, the Gnome desktop is functional and
> nice to look at and the debian package system is awsome. BUT I've
> allready found some outdated packages, like pysqlite, which doesn't
> work with code I've made on Windows using pysqlite 1.0. 
> 
> If the packages can be kept up to date, this distro will be the
> ultimate python development platform, without a doubt.
> 
> Download and install it now!!! ( And make an updated ubuntu-package of
> pysqlite while you're at it ;-) )
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 13:57:22 +0000 (UTC), Martin Maney
> <maney at pobox.com> wrote:
> 
> >Apologies if this isn't news here - I've been too busy this last week
> >or so for even skimming the traffic here, in part because I've been
> >messing around with Ubuntu's preview release on a spare machine... and,
> >of course, spending time on their very busy mailing list.  :-)  I didn't
> >find any mention of Ubuntu in a quick scan of recent messages, so...
> >
> >  Ubuntu is a Linux distribution that starts with the breadth of Debian
> >  and adds regular releases (every six months), a clear focus on the
> >  user and usability (it should "Just Work", TM) and a commitment to
> >  security updates with 18 months of support for every release.
> >
> >The first release is scheduled for October 20th if I recall the
> >announcement correctly.  But I started out to write about the Python
> >aspect of this.  A while ago I had seen one of the project members make
> >a passing remark about how dedicated they were to having "insanely
> >great support for Python" in Ubuntu, but I only realized that this was
> >a literal statement of policy when I finally wandered over to their
> >"bounties" page (http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/bounties):
> >
> >  Here are some software projects for Ubuntu that are available as paid
> >  bounties. ... The 2004 budget for these bounties is USD 100,000. ...
> >
> >  Ubuntu prefer the community to do the work in Python. Here are some
> >  Python-related projects that are up for bounties:
> >
> >  Python scripting everywhere ...  Bounties will be offered on Python
> >  scripting interfaces for the following tools: OpenOffice, Blender,
> >  AbiWord, Gnumeric, The GIMP
> >
> >  Mozilla work [each of these is a separate bounty item]: Thunderbird
> >  message filing quick access; Thunderbird message filing intelligence;
> >  Browser error pages Thunderbird SMTP message queueing
> >
> >  Bugzilla bounty tracking
> >
> >And they list a few bounties that have already been awarded (I'm not
> >sure if that means completed or just "contracted", but I suspect both
> >are represented).  With the emphasis on Python, as well as the overall
> >quality of the work I've seen in the work still in progress, I think
> >Ubuntu is of more than passing interest to anyone interested in Linux
> >or Python, and especially to those interested in both.


From rountree at cs.uga.edu  Mon Oct 18 19:47:07 2004
From: rountree at cs.uga.edu (Barry Rountree)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:47:07 -0400
Subject: Python Threads + MPI
Message-ID: <cl1klr$qlv$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu>

Hello,

I'd like to use a Python MPI wrapper (pypar, pyMPI, or ScientificPython) but
I can't get threading to work.  I'd like individual threads responsible for
MPI_Send and MPI_Recv.  Things tend to either work perfectly or hang,
depending on ordering and sleep times.  

My best guess is that the signal waking up the C-level MPI_Recv gets snagged
by another thread, which promptly ignores it.  (This theory is based
entirely on a single sentence culled from the thread module documentation: 
"Threads interact strangely with interrupts".

I've also tried surrounding the C call to MPI_Recv with
Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS and Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS, to no avail.

I guess this boils down to:  can I put C blocking socket calls in their own
Python threads and expect them to work?  If so, how?

Thanks much,

Barry Rountree

Sample code:

#!/opt/install/bin/mpipython

import Scientific.MPI as MPI
import time
import threading as T

class Sender(T.Thread):
        def run(self):
                count = 0
                while True:
                        time.sleep(0.2)
                        print "Starting send of", count
                        MPI.world.send( "x"+str(count)+"x", 0, count )
                        print "Finished send of", count
                        count+=1
                        break;
class Recver(T.Thread):
        def run(self):
                count = 0
                while True:
                        time.sleep(1.0)
                        print "Starting recv"
                        x = MPI.world.receiveString()
                        print "Received", x
                        count += 1

r = Recver()
s = Sender()


r.start()
s.start()



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 04:53:30 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:53:30 +0200
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rb6552-1ea.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <1gmd3qo.oznd6vfh2qudN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.us> wrote:

> In article <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list at python.org>,
> Ajay  <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
> >
> >is there an authoritative source on the performance of scripting languages
> >such as python vs. something like java, c, c++.
> >
> >its for a report, so it would be awesome if i could quote some well-known
> >authority on this.
>                       .
> Look for "premature optimization" in
> <URL:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1gly5qo.1l15w5scsv08vN%25aleaxit%40ya
> hoo.com > and <URL:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%25aleaxit%40ya
> hoo.com >

Heh -- thanks for the honor of quoting just me in this context, Cameron,
but I suspect Ajay would like something more.

I would recomment Prechelt's "An empirical comparison of C, C++, Java,
Perl, Python, Rexx, and Tcl",
<http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf>,
published in IEEE's Computer magazine.

Summary of empirical results:
'''
"scripting languages" (Perl, Python, Rexx, Tcl) are more productive than
"conventional languages" (C, C++, Java). In terms of run time and memory
consumption, they often turn out better than Java and not much worse
than C or C++. In general, the differences between languages tend to be
smaller than the typical differences due to different programmers within
the same language.
'''

But, get and study the whole paper -- these conclusions need to be
studied in depth.  E.g.: mostly, productivity is due to almost constant
LOC/hour, with scripting languages having median length (for given
problem) of 100 vs others' around 250, confirming "function point"
theory; however, looking at it with a finer grain shows LOC/hour
(median) as high as 40 for Python, as low as 20 for Java and Rexx (Rexx
results, like C ones, doubtful due to fewer programs under study).
I.e., in empirical practice under the experiment's conditions, the
Python program is not only less than half the size of the Java one doing
the same task, but also gets written almost 5 times as fast (a factor of
2 in lines/hour times a factor of 2.5 in program size for programs doing
the same task).  Reliability of the different programs also matters, and
it tends to be higher for higher level languages (though the author
prudently says no more than 'no less reliable').

Of course, any such comparison of technologies happens _at one point in
time_, underscoring how silly it is to think one is able to compare
performance of _languages_ rather than their _implementation_ at a given
time.  In the years since the experiment, the performance of Java and
Python implementations has increased, with substantial effort having
been put into optimizing the respective virtual machines (particularly
on intel-like processors; others, such as PPC, appear to have VMs that
are less highly optimized); I believe the other languages'
implementations have not changed significantly in performance terms.

Visiting http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/ and downloading and trying
the "shootout" -- needs a lot of ability for critical thinking and good
all around knowledge to fix a lot of issues, fairly pointed out but
unsolved in links from that page -- is another possibility.


Alex


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 13 05:24:56 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:24:56 +0200
Subject: strange side effect with lists!?
References: <OF8CDF91A2.603772BE-ONC1256F2C.002E8BFD-C1256F2C.00400C1E@profactor.at>
Message-ID: <ckis99$c27$1@sea.gmane.org>

Wolfgang.Stoecher at profactor.at wrote:

> I'm new to Python and playing around. I'm confused by the following
> behaviour:
>
>>>> l1 = [1] # define list
>>>> l2 = l1  # copy of l1 ?

nope.  plain assignment simple adds another name for the same object.

>>>> l2,l1
> ([1], [1])
>>>> l2.extend(l1) # only l2 should be altered !?
>>>> l2,l1
> ([1, 1], [1, 1]) # but also l1 is altered!
>
> So what is the policy of assignment? When is a copy of an object created?

never, unless you say so.

> Where to find dox on this?

any decent tutorial should explain this.

for a more focussed discussion, see:

    http://www.effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm
    (short version)

    http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html
    (longer version)

</F> 





From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 15 08:50:03 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 05:50:03 -0700
Subject: importing over network
In-Reply-To: <ckod02$lk9$1@planja.arnes.si>
References: <ckod02$lk9$1@planja.arnes.si>
Message-ID: <1097844603.20309.42.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 13:40 +0200, Bo?tjan Jerko wrote:
> Is there a possibility to do import over the network?
> I would like to put all my modules on a server and import them over the 
> network (internet or LAN).

You could use something like this (assuming the remote module is named
'foo.py' and has a function named 'foo'):

import sys, urllib, imp

remoteModules = {
    'foo': 'http://www.IBetterKnowThisURLIsSecure.com/foo.py',
    }

for name, url in remoteModules.items():
    code = urllib.urlopen(url).read()
    module = imp.new_module(name)
    exec code in module.__dict__
    globals()[name] = module

foo.foo()

This is pretty limited (doesn't support packages for one thing, and I'm
sure there's probably more restrictions).  I'd personally take a look at
the ihooks module and see if you can use that instead.

You might also use some library that can pull down entire web sites
(such as HarvestMan) to pull the modules or packages locally and then
just use __import__ to import them.  This would also give you some
caching abilities.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct 12 04:39:12 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 08:39:12 GMT
Subject: String replace with return value?
References: <8Fsad.11445$nj.10631@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<mailman.4689.1097490229.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qWJad.11976$nj.7909@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns958062323907Eduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Roose wrote:

> I thought of that, but don't you see, that's pretty much the same thing. 
>   It's a question of doing an 'in' and a replace vs. a compare and a 
> replace.  Both in and equality comparison are linear operations, so 
> choosing over the other doesn't really matter.  A speedup can still be 
> obtained by traversing the string once instead of twice.
> 
> Now, the person who suggested using 'is' (which is constant time) was 
> onto something, but alas replace doesn't work like that.  As someone 
> demonstrated, it returns a new string in any case.

No, it only returns a new string if it actually does a replacement.

Frederick Lundh confused the issue by pointing out that a replace can do a 
replacement on a string but leave it unchanged. Provided you can guarantee 
that the original string and replacement string are different this won't 
matter.

To keep Frederick happy, you could change my example to:

if searchTerm == replacement:
    newtext = oldtext
else:
    newtext = oldtext.replace(searchTerm, replacement)

if newtext is oldtext:
   print "nothing changed"
else:
   print "modified text"

I will be surprised though if the overhead of comparing strings using '==' 
even if they are large web pages if measurable in terms of either server 
loading or time to retrieve a page.


From nomail at no.way  Sat Oct  9 05:22:29 2004
From: nomail at no.way (Bats)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 11:22:29 +0200
Subject: ANN: GUI wrapper for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython
References: <mailman.4573.1097237841.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ck8aib$58d$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Stelios Xanthakis had this to say:

> Hi.
> 
> I'd like to announce the availability of a high-level GUI wrapper
> for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython.
> 
> Check out the screenshot at
> 
>    http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/twgui/
> 
> I wanted to write a *simple* app with a GUI that didn't look as horrible
> as Tk and without having to ask from the users to install this or that.
> All three (pygtk, pyqt and wxpython) have serious drawbacks for one to
> invest their time learning them.
> 
> Any feedback or help from toolkit gurus is most welcome.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Stelios
Sounds great. 
I'm on Fedora 1, installed Python 2.33 which is causing headaches, but I
tried:
1. Moved all examples to same folder as your wrap_*.py files so that import
would find them.
2. python run2.py
and I get this:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "run2.py", line 40, in ?
    GUI=wrap_pygtk
NameError: name 'wrap_pygtk' is not defined


-- 
Bats
~..~
(I can only post on weekends and rare times during the week.)



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 26 20:59:04 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:59:04 -0700
Subject: Interpretor.
In-Reply-To: <494182a9.0410261410.43cd5226@posting.google.com>
References: <494182a9.0410261410.43cd5226@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041026175541.0B6B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


balaji at email.arizona.edu (Balaji) wrote:
> Hello Everyone....
> 
> I have created a simple GUI using wx python. Its an simple editor...
> 
> Now what I want to do is pass the contents of this editor and receive
> solution from python.
> 
> Suppose in the editor if I say x=2 and y=3 and then x+y I should get
> back the solution.
> 
> In general i want to build an simple interpretor..


If you look at the wxPython demo, there is a wxProcess class that
basically does this for you.

 - Josiah



From jackklein at spamcop.net  Sat Oct 23 17:48:31 2004
From: jackklein at spamcop.net (Jack Klein)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:48:31 -0500
Subject: Interesting coding idea
References: <2tvup4F24iddjU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <9ckln0tm2ubr7t8hafe27p66kfileceabu@4ax.com>

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:54:55 -0300, "Bruno R. Dias"
<bruno at octantis.com.br> wrote in comp.lang.c:

> Perhaps it would be interesting to program a virtual machine simulating 
> an ancient computer (such as the pdp-7). Then, it would be rather 
> interesting to code for it (porting gcc to it maybe?). I think it would 
> be fun to play with the long-forgotten art of coding in machine language.
> 
> And what about a fictional computer, such as one that works on an 
> entirely different way (such as a non-binary computer)?
> 
> It wouldn't be very useful, but it wouold be a very fun and very 
> interesting thing to hack on.

And what exactly does this have to do with the C language?  I suspect
it is equally off-topic in comp.lang.python.

-- 
Jack Klein
Home: http://JK-Technology.Com
FAQs for
comp.lang.c http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
comp.lang.c++ http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~ajo/docs/FAQ-acllc.html


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 28 00:45:33 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:45:33 -0400
Subject: Can not get urllib.urlopen to work
In-Reply-To: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
References: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <PU_fd.34$931.20@lakeread01>

Pater Maximus wrote:

> I am trying to implement the recipe listed at
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/211886
> 
> However, I can not get to first base. When I try to run
> 
> import urllib
> fo=urllib.urlopen("http://www.dictionary.com/")
> page = fo.read()
> 
> I get:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:/Program Files/Python/Lib/idlelib/testurl", line 2, in -toplevel-
>     fo=urllib.urlopen("http://www.dictionary.com/")
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\urllib.py", line 76, in urlopen
>     return opener.open(url)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\urllib.py", line 181, in open
>     return getattr(self, name)(url)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\urllib.py", line 297, in open_http
>     h.endheaders()
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 712, in endheaders
>     self._send_output()
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 597, in _send_output
>     self.send(msg)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 564, in send
>     self.connect()
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 548, in connect
>     raise socket.error, msg
> IOError: [Errno socket error] (10061, 'Connection refused')
> 
> 
Suspect the action of a firewall or just assume you were unlucky and the 
server was down when you hit it. I had no problem just now:

$ python
Python 2.3.4 (#1, Jun 13 2004, 11:21:03)
[GCC 3.3.1 (cygming special)] on cygwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import urllib
 >>> fo=urllib.urlopen("http://www.dictionary.com/")
 >>> page = fo.read()
 >>>

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Wed Oct 13 00:15:41 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 22:15:41 -0600
Subject: Strange return value from os.system(...) call
References: <mailman.4803.1097638990.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416cabed_1@omega.dimensional.com>

David Scott Williams <xiarcel at optonline.net> writes:

> somevalue=os.system("/path/to/script")
> print "somevalue:"+str(somevalue)
>
> If my script exits with 0, somevalue is 0
> ...if it exits with 1, somevalue is 256

See the documentation for os.system(), os.wait(), and os.WEXITSTATUS():

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/os-process.html

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com  Wed Oct 27 03:09:27 2004
From: werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com (Werner Merkl)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:09:27 +0200
Subject: py2exe and UPPER CASE file system
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5545.1098859128.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <clim4g$3nv$3@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>	<u0sj3r19.fsf@python.net>
	<clneo6$5ve$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
	<mailman.5545.1098859128.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clnhj8$mdo$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>

Cliff Wells wrote:

> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 08:20 +0200, Werner Merkl wrote:
> 
>>>Werner Merkl <werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>my problem is, I try to use a py2exe compiled python script from a
>>>>CD-ROM. This should work, BUT the tool I use (or have to use)
>>>>generates only upper case file names on the CD-ROM.
>>>>
> 
> 
> Somehow I missed the original post, but what OS are you on that have to
> use a tool that generates only uppercase filenames on the CD?  If you're
> on Windows, Linux, BSD, Solaris or most any modern OS, you should be
> able to use cdrtools (cdrecord + mkisofs) which can generate
> Rockridge/Joliet CD's with regular (long mixed case) filenames:
My problem is not a matter of operation systems. Windows can handle 
upper and lower case, BUT I need to a CD mastering tool, which converts 
all lower cases to upper cases.

> cdrecord homepage:
> http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/glone/employees/joerg.schilling/private/cdrecord.html
> 
> binaries for a lot of different systems here:
> ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/

Thanks for your advice, but I cannot change our mastering tool.


Regards
Werner


From paul at subsignal.org  Sat Oct 30 09:57:54 2004
From: paul at subsignal.org (paul koelle)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:57:54 +0200
Subject: Linksys Router & Python
In-Reply-To: <cltjkt$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cltjkt$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <2uhkv4F2bh9tqU1@uni-berlin.de>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> Probably a stupid question, but here goes:
> 
Not stupid but nevertheless I'll try to restate ;):

Has anyone heard of a (probably stipped down) MIPS version of the python 
interpreter which may run on openwrt? I'd hate to write scripts in "ash".

Thanks
  Paul


From lonetwin at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 05:21:44 2004
From: lonetwin at gmail.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:51:44 +0530
Subject: Example of how to use logging for both screen and file
In-Reply-To: <2e37dc1.0410230702.38bb4912@posting.google.com>
References: <du7acufgcr9.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.5320.1098454525.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2e37dc1.0410221237.2609dcad@posting.google.com>
	<2e37dc1.0410230702.38bb4912@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5a309bd30410270221147c8ecd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi list,

Could someone help me figure out what is wrong here ?? I'd like to use
logging to send logs to syslogd as well as a file. The file logging
seems to be fine, but why don't I see anything in '/var/log/messages'
??
======================================
import logging, logging.handlers

def setupLogging():
   global flog, slog
   flog = logging.getLogger("mylog")
   slog = logging.getLogger("mylog.slog")

   flog.setLevel(logging.INFO)
   slog.setLevel(logging.INFO)

   filelog_hdlr = logging.FileHandler('/tmp/mylog')
   syslog_hdlr  = logging.handlers.SysLogHandler()

   flog.addHandler(filelog_hdlr)
   slog.addHandler(syslog_hdlr)

setupLogging()


flog.info("##################### foo #####################")
slog.debug("################## bar ####################"")
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my syslog.conf says:
*.*           /var/log/messages
======================================


Regards
Steve


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct  8 05:08:23 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 08 Oct 2004 12:08:23 +0300
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<du7r7oa1dst.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<I4j9d.5365$UP1.2717@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <du7655lh914.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:

    >> mystruct.sortD()   # destructive
    >> if symbolP(obj): ...       # predicate

    Andrew> But that means pressing the shift key for the 'D', '(',
    Andrew> ')' and 'P' characters.  You answer doesn't address your
    Andrew> first complaint.

It doesn't - and I wouldn't use that convention unless imposed by an
authority. But others would be free to do so even now.

Incidentally, I've remapped my keyboard so that ( and ) don't require pressing
shift.

    Andrew> Do you prefer Ruby's parens free call syntax?  Or is it
    Andrew> that from practice you no longer consider '(', ')' and ':'
    Andrew> to be noisy?

I like "()", mostly because the cleaner code would not be worth the
increased semantic complexity. I don't mind ":", I actually like the
look of it.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 20:30:22 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:30:22 -0400
Subject: [Possible Bug-Python2.3.2] MD5 module?
In-Reply-To: <416DB53F.2020208@usherbrooke.ca>
References: <416DB53F.2020208@usherbrooke.ca>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04101317303715a4b1@mail.gmail.com>

[Jean-Guillaume Paradis]
>    I've tried to use the md5 module of python 2.3.3, and the results of
> a hash do not concord with those of reference sites such as
> http://bfl.rctek.com/tools/?tool=hasher
>
>    I call it using
>
>    import md5
>    m = md5.new()
>    m.update("a")
>    print m.hexdigest()

Basic rule:  always say both what you got, and what you expected to
get.  You didn't reveal either, so replying helpfully is tedious.

Here's what I get from your code above:

0cc175b9c0f1b6a831c399e269772661

It's hard to tell what the site you linked to gets, because its output
text box is too narrow to display its full result when I try it. 
Viewing the *source* of the web page, it's trying to display this:

<input type="text" id="hash" value="0cc175b9c0f1b6a831c399e269772661"
readonly="readonly" />

So it's trying to display the same value for "a" as Python returned. 
I hope you didn't type

    "a"

in the web page's input box -- that is, I hope you didn't type the quotes in.

>    I have not checked if the problem is the same on more recent version
> though

Sorry, you haven't said enough for anyone to guess what you think "the
problem" is.  I don't see a problem.


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 02:53:58 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 23:53:58 -0700
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410122253.13c9ac47@posting.google.com>

Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote in message news:<RnWad.27059$3C6.973079 at news20.bellglobal.com>...
> In the following example:
> 
> class MyMetaclass(type): pass
> class MyBaseType(object): __metaclass__ = MyMetaclass
> class MyType(MyBaseType):
>      x = 4
>      y = 5
>      z = 6
> 
> Is there any way to modify MyMetaclass to keep the order of x,y,z somewhere?
> 
> Thx and regards,
> Nicolas

Short answer: No.

x, y, z are in the class dictionary. dictionaries have no order.

You could use something like

class MyType(MyBaseType):
  __mylist__ = [("x", 4), ("y", 5), ("z",6)]

and use the metaclass to set the class attributes x,y and z for you.


             Michele Simionato


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 19 12:47:30 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:47:30 -0700
Subject: formatting time as milliseconds in logging module
In-Reply-To: <cl2n3g$2lt$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
References: <cl2n3g$2lt$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <20041019091419.0A5F.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> The logging module nicely prepends each line with a formatted date.
> 
> However, I'm not interested in the actual date but only in the number of 
> milliseconds that passed since the start of the program. What is the best 
> way of doing that?

In Windows: time.clock() will get you the number of seconds since you
last called it, down to the microsecond (trim as you see fit).

In linux, time.clock() gives you the amount of processor time used, so
it is not quite as useful in this case.


In both, time.time() will give you the number of seconds since the epoch,
so you can call it once when the program starts, and later just
subtract the times.  In Windows, it is only accurate to .01 seconds, and
I don't know how accurate the linux version is (I expect about as
accurate, but I can certainly be wrong).

 - Josiah



From bockman at virgilio.it  Sat Oct 16 10:45:47 2004
From: bockman at virgilio.it (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:45:47 GMT
Subject: Limittion of Python on LynxOS?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.16.14.45.00.989166@virgilio.it>

A couple of days ago, at work, I managed
to compile and install Python 2.3.4 on LynxOS 4.0 ; it just needed a
couple of manual fixing for ./configure bad guesses ( snprintf and
/bin/install ). It works, but I could not do 'make test' (lots of
undefined symbol error messages) and some modules, like fnctl.ioctl, are
not available.

Now I would like to know what works and what doesn't, without
having to discover everything by myself (I'm lazy, I know :-/  ).

Googling "Python LynxOS" only turns out some old post on python-dev  and
an interesting presenation of  a Command & Control prototype with  Python
2.2.2 on LynxOS (which shows that Python _is_ usable on this platform). 

Anybody knows something more specific?

Ciao
---------------------
FB



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct 25 14:33:01 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:33:01 -0700
Subject: speedier cgi and perf monitoring
In-Reply-To: <417D1A0E.7050604@harvee.org>
References: <pan.2004.10.25.12.45.39.951966@thomas-guettler.de>
	<417D1A0E.7050604@harvee.org>
Message-ID: <20041025113145.0B10.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> good suggestion but not the help I was looking for.  What I was 
> observing is that the profiling tool measures CPU time not clock time. 
> No surprises after all that is what the documentation says.  The 
> performance problems I'm experiencing require observing clock time (I 
> believe).  So far, I haven't figured out how to specify clock time for 
> the profiling tools.  any suggestions?

Don't use profiling tools.  Do manual profiling via time.time() calls 
(which provides wall-clock time). Start coarse, and narrow down your
search each iteration.

 - Josiah



From a at a.invalid  Fri Oct  1 14:18:26 2004
From: a at a.invalid (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:18:26 GMT
Subject: Python libraries for playing MP3 files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4174.1096634585.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <415D4516.4010207@euskalnet.net>
	<mailman.4174.1096634585.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Sbh7d.368$AM1.105@read3.inet.fi>

Dave Brueck wrote:
> Try looking at pygame's mixer_music module at www.pygame.org - it's a 
> Python interface to SDL_mixer (which can support MP3/OGG/etc).

Umm.. I looked at both Pygame's and SDL's documentation, and from what I 
could find it only supports WAV. How do you get it to read MP3 or OGG?

I've been looking for something like that for a while. FMOD looked nice, but 
I couldn't get the existing bindings to work, and I'm too lazy (and 
inexperienced) to make ones myself :P

-- 
Timo "WT" Virkkala

   "In the battle between you and the world, bet on the world."


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 07:57:00 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:57:00 +0200
Subject: properties and inheritance
References: <mailman.4493.1097148878.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glagl4.12pu2rn1hq4v8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Neal D. Becker <ndbecker2 at verizon.net> wrote:

> It seems that properties, as implemented in 2.3, don't behave as I'd expect
> with respect to inheritance:
> 
> class A (object):
>     def f(self):
>         print "A"
> 
>     doF = property (fget=f)
> 
> class B(A):
>     def f(self):
>         print "B"
> 
> b = B()
> b.doF : prints "A"
> 
> Is there a rationale for this?

Object 'doF' (of type 'property', held in A.__dict__) holds as its
'fget' attribute just what you passed to it -- the 'f' function that's
held in A.__dict__.  IOW,
    A.doF.fget is A.__dict__['f']

> I would have thought that if properties are
> a shorthand for calling functions,

They are -- that A.doF.fget is indeed a function, and the __get__ method
of the property calls the function in question.  *The function*, not any
other function of the same name that might happen to be elsewhere...

> and functions are polymorphic, then why
> are properties not?

Functions are descriptors and so are properties -- both have __get__
methods.  It's not an issue of polymorphism: it's an issue of early vs
late binding.  What function a property holds (and thus calls) is bound
pretty early, when the property object is created; what attribute an
access such as b.f would get (and there is no such access going on here)
is bound very late, at the time the access is executed.

> Doesn't that make properties behaviour inconsistent
> with other attributes?

Not particularly.  B subclasses A, A has an attribute named 'doF' which
B doesn't override (nor does instance b of B), so the access b.doF uses
A.doF.__get__(b, B).  Since object A.doF is holding a function object
(not a name -- it doesn't do any getattr, therefore), it call the
function object it holds, not another.  You'd have exactly the same
effect going on if you coded, say:

class Foo:
   def bar(self): return 'Foo'
   def callbar(self, bar=bar): return bar(self)

class Bar(Foo):
   def bar(self): return 'Bar'

b = Bar()
print b.callbar()

No inconsistency between behavior of function callbar and behavior of a
property with bar as its fget -- both bind early, when coded this way.

If you want more indirectness it's not hard to obtain it, either by
having the property hold a function that does some further attribute
lookup, or by using instead of property some custom descriptor type,
call it indirect_property, which holds a name and looks it up.  The
extra lookup at each access will of course make things slower, but if
you do need the indirection then that may be acceptable.  I consider it
a reasonable design decision to make the leaner, faster descriptor the
built-in one, personally.


Alex


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Oct  1 15:41:18 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:41:18 -0600
Subject: Python libraries for playing MP3 files
In-Reply-To: <Sbh7d.368$AM1.105@read3.inet.fi>
References: <415D4516.4010207@euskalnet.net>	<mailman.4174.1096634585.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Sbh7d.368$AM1.105@read3.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <415DB2DE.7030007@pythonapocrypha.com>

Timo Virkkala wrote:
> Dave Brueck wrote:
> 
>> Try looking at pygame's mixer_music module at www.pygame.org - it's a 
>> Python interface to SDL_mixer (which can support MP3/OGG/etc).
> 
> 
> Umm.. I looked at both Pygame's and SDL's documentation, and from what I 
> could find it only supports WAV. How do you get it to read MP3 or OGG?

Hmm.. not sure what pages you've looked at, but SDL_mixer's main page 
(http://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_mixer/) says:

"It supports any number of simultaneously playing channels of 16 bit stereo 
audio, plus a single channel of music, mixed by the popular MikMod MOD, Timidity 
MIDI, Ogg Vorbis, and SMPEG MP3 libraries"

Pygame's page here:

http://www.pygame.org/docs/ref/pygame_mixer_music.html

mentions both MP3 and OGG specifically.

HTH,
Dave



From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 21:25:54 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:25:54 +0800
Subject: Python vs PHP (mod_python vs. mod_php)
In-Reply-To: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2u5mrpF276mk2U1@uni-berlin.de>

Shufen wrote:
> Hi all, 
> 
> 
> Can someone who has use PHP before and know quite well about the
> language, tell me what are the stuffs that Python offers and PHP
> doesn't. A few examples will be nice. I know about the date format
> problem which PHP is having but I need more examples. Thank you for
> any help.
> 
> Shufen

Python is just a plain better language.  I use both
PHP and Python heavily and finishing the same task in
Python takes half the time in most cases, if not less.

Unfortunately, mod_python deployment is a minute fraction
of that of mod_php, and that is why Python is way less
popular as a server-side scriptiong solution.

Doing some research on why this is so reveals some 2-3
year old posts that mention that it takes more effort to
configure mod_python for stability and security on shared
web hosts.  Why?  Because Python lets you do more advanced
stuff compared to PHP (specifically having to do with
importing modules) that may inadvertently or deliberately
crash the server if misused.  Thus, for mod_python hosting
to be reliable, you have to give each user their own instance
of the Apache server (proxied through a central instance of
Apache).

This might, in fact, no longer be needed with the latest
mod_python, but I leave that to the mod_python experts in
this newsgroup to expound upon if so.

As a (former) PHP fan myself, I found Spyce (spyce.sf.net)
to be the closest in philosophy and ease of use to PHP and
I highly recommend it to those who want to experiment with
making the switch from PHP server-side to Python server-side.


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Oct 19 02:36:10 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 09:36:10 +0300
Subject: htmldata and python 2.2
References: <ckmjth$i26$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
	<41743636$0$24525$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <du765579put.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Martin" == Martin v L?wis <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:

    Martin> Googling for "python htmldata" does not bring up anything
    Martin> interesting, google asks whether I meant "python html
    Martin> data".

groups.google.com does

    Martin> What is the htmldata module?

http://oregonstate.edu/~barnesc/htmldata/

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From elie at flashmail.com  Thu Oct 21 03:38:07 2004
From: elie at flashmail.com (Eli Daniel)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 00:38:07 -0700
Subject: String changing on the fly
References: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com>
	<1glzcvj.5uv1lg12ypgy2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <aef9ef3d.0410202338.6c091ff2@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1glzcvj.5uv1lg12ypgy2N%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> Eli Daniel <elie at flashmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I'm new to Python. Can you please tell me if the following is
> > possible.
> > 
> > My users are using other scripting launguage to write scripts. They
> > are used to write somthing like (keeping it simple)
> > T = 100
> > do_action ('It cost $T dollars')
> > 
> > where the above syntax ('It cost $T dollars') is interperted as ('It
> > cost 100 dollars').
> > I saw on way of doing it by using 'it cost '+ str(T) + ' dollars'.
> > But trying to keep it backward compatible, is there a way for the
> > function do_action, which resides in a class in a seperate file, to
> > take the original string (with the '$T') and replace it with the value
> > of T?
> 
> As others have said, you need to pass do_action the dictionary of the
> local variables of the function (or module's body) from which you're
> calling it: do_action('it cost $T dollars', vars()).  If you don't pass
> this argument explicitly it IS possible for do_action to recover it by
> black magic, but that would be very bad practice.
> 
> Apart from this, your best bet might be to upgrade to 2.4 (the current
> beta appears quite good), which offers exactly this functionality in the
> string.Template class.  Otherwise, see how string.py does it (in the 2.4
> standard library) and copy the solution.  But reusing the solution
> directly is much preferable, and for that you need 2.4.
> 
> 
> Alex

Thank you all.
I've written a solution which sends that vars on every function call
as suggested (do_action('it cost $T dollars', vars()) which works
great.
I've spent some time trying to avoid sending the vars (before I saw
the previous post) with no much success (I've tried all kind of
imports which resulted in some weird issues for a new guy like me).
I'll try the beta, if it solves the problem that's great and if not
the above solution is good as well.

p.s.
The previous language was TCL, not perl, although I've written T=100
(but also wrote 'keeping it simple').

thanks,
cheers
Eli


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Mon Oct 11 07:58:37 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:58:37 +0200
Subject: How best to return a class method?
In-Reply-To: <ck0uvq$1qk$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <ck0uvq$1qk$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <416a7582$0$1124$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Roy Smith wrote:
> I've got a method which returns another method:
> 
> class domPrinter:
>     def getNodePrinter (self, nodeType):
> 	[...]
>         # return domPrinter.printUnknown
> 	return self.__class__.printUnknown
> 
> I originally wrote it as the commented-out version, but didn't like
> the idea that I've got to repeat the class name.  The version using
> self.__class__ solves that problem, but it's uglier and more
> complicated.
> 
> Any opinions on the best way to do this?

I don't really notice anything uglier or more complicated here (2nd 
solution), and that's how I'd do it, unless I have some compelling 
reason to prevent use of a redifined version of printUnknown in a child 
class (for now, I never found a compelling enough reason...)

Bruno



From bbull at pathfire.com  Wed Oct 20 16:39:57 2004
From: bbull at pathfire.com (WakeBdr)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 13:39:57 -0700
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5221.1098275067.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.20.01.27.52.116416@cs.wisc.edu>
	<mailman.5221.1098275067.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1098304797.145697.10640@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

So, I've been working on this a little yesterday and today and I've got
something that I like so far.  I just thought about a "feature" and I'd
like to get some opinions on it.  Should the ConfigParser object be
able to read and store configs from multiple config files or should
each config file require a new ConfigParser object?

If the ConfigParser object could read and store multiple files, I see
referencing it like so

# Load the config files
cpObj.load(file0)
cpObj.load(file1)

# get values from them
ret0 = cpObj.file0.property0
ret1 = cpObj.file1.property0

where file0 and file1 can be whatever you would like to name them.  I
ask this because I like to put a lot of information in config files
making my code as configurable as possible.  Sometimes, managing the
config file can be as messy as managing the code itself.  So, breaking
the config files up into several smaller files may be handy.
Any thoughts on this?



From ivan at ivan-herman.net  Sun Oct  3 04:10:47 2004
From: ivan at ivan-herman.net (Ivan Herman)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:10:47 +0200
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4197.1096740193.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>	<JaOdnbKT9I4chMHcRVn-vQ@giganews.com>	<mailman.4144.1096560257.5135.python-list@python.org>	<415e6f0d$0$41688$1b2cd167@news.euronet.nl>
	<mailman.4197.1096740193.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <415FB407.4010807@ivan-herman.net>

You put me in a strange situation... it is not my goal to compare gnuplot and pychart, I 
am just a messenger... I am not even sure that the two are comparable, to be fair (to both).

Pychart (as far as I am concerned) is a small and lean package to do statistical charts 
and nothing else. Gnuplot is *much* more than that, it is more powerful and, consequently, 
complex. Personally, my problem with gnuplot was that it lacked, for example, any 
pie-chart facility (it is a topic of debates on the relevant mailing lists, b.t.w.) and I 
was simply too lazy;-) to do start learning gnuplot and do it myself. In any case: I am 
afraid we are comparing apples and oranges here.

As for the remark of the author you quote below... I let him defend himself if he reads 
these lines. Personally, I do not care about it.

Ivan


Fernando Perez wrote:
> Ivan Herman wrote:
> 
> 
>>If this is indeed what he means:-) I began to use PyChart last week:
>>
>>http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Yasushi_Saito/pychart/
>>
>>I is o.k. for relatively simple statistical charts, and may produce output in
>>SVG, PS, PDF, PNG, and interactive X11 display
> 
> 
> With all due respect for the author of this tool, I have a really hard time with
> comments like this on his page:
> 
> Gnuplot.
> A long-time favorite of researchers. But its output is not up to publishing
> standard, in my opinion.
> 
> Gnuplot has been around for many years (I've used it since 1991), and its
> postscript is extremely good.  Definitely far better than any of the examples
> shown in the pychart page, all of which have that god-awful look of Excel cheap
> charts.
> 
> In python, for the last few years I've been using (yes, for real research)
> gnuplot with much success (with Gnuplot.py and the enhancements which ipython
> ads), and right now I'm in the process of switching to matplotlib (and doing
> much work so that ipython supports matplotlib for interactive work).  
> 
> IMHO, matplotlib has a very clean design which makes it a great tool to bet on
> for the future, with very good functionality, high quality output, and is being
> actively developed by a strong team (not just John Hunter, but also the good
> folks from the Hubble Space Telescope Science Institute).
> 
> Just my $.02,
> 
> f
> 



From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Fri Oct  1 19:20:44 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 17:20:44 -0600
Subject: Close a socket externally
References: <Y9l7d.262597$bp1.228320@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <415de64c$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>

"drs" <drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com> writes:

> I have a program which opens a socket server in a thread.  I need for the
> server to listen on the socket for a certain amount of time (say, ten
> seconds or so) and then close it, and am wondering if there is a good way to
> close the socket other than sending it a message from another thread to
> close itself.  That is, I am looking for a way to forcably kill a socket
> from a second thread, not to send it a message to kill itself.

Why the requirement to close the socket from another thread?  Why
can't the thread that created the socket time out and close the
socket itself?

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From mkrasnyk at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 13:03:26 2004
From: mkrasnyk at gmail.com (Michael Krasnyk)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 10:03:26 -0700
Subject: Print variable values by their names
Message-ID: <72e80deb.0410180903.2c7e939d@posting.google.com>

Hi,

How can I print variable values by their names?
For example:

import sys
for str in dir(sys): print str

Will be printed only variable names, but I need values from list of variable names.

Thanks in advance,
Michael


From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Oct  7 19:23:08 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:23:08 GMT
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.07.19.38.16.805089@jerf.org>

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:31:19 -0700, Ali wrote:

> I have a the list:
> 
> info = [['Ali',18],
>         ['Zainab',16],
>         ['Khalid',18]]
> 
> I want this info to show on a tk window like this:
> 
> |--|------------------------|
> |TK|Blah                    |
> |--|------------------------|
> |Name: Ali                  |
> |Age:  18                   |
> |                           |
> |Name: Zainab               |
> |Age:  16                   |
> |                           |
> |Name: Khalid               |
> |Age:  18                   |
> |---------------------------|
> 
> I was wondering how to do this?

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/grid.htm

Do you even try to figure these things out before posting?


From fakeaddress at nowhere.org  Sat Oct  2 04:02:30 2004
From: fakeaddress at nowhere.org (Bryan Olson)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 08:02:30 GMT
Subject: Close a socket externally
In-Reply-To: <1096680243.955122.263530@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
References: <Y9l7d.262597$bp1.228320@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<1096673569.579558.114260@k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
	<BAm7d.262606$bp1.36553@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<1096680243.955122.263530@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <qgt7d.3844$JG2.1197@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

I wrote:
 > The following isn't tested [...]

Web-posting screwed up the indentation.  It should read:

     deadline = time.time() + hard_limit_on_the_time
     while stuff_to_do:
         timeout = deadline - time.time()
         if timeout < 0:
             break  # time limit expired
         (readable, _, _) = select.select([mysock], [], [], timeout)
         if ! readable:
             break  # time limit expired
         # at this point mysock has data available (barring weird things)

---
--Bryan



From dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com  Sat Oct 30 06:58:41 2004
From: dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com (Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:58:41 +0200
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnco6oak.nn.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
	<2uh8ckF2954t4U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnco6sv1.nn.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>

Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
> Yes, I read most of the Apocalypses, the Exegeses and the Synopses.

I hope it worths the effort :P

> For average programs, it seems that it will. Just think about classes.
> One thing the freshmeat article complains about is breaking
> compatibility. Well, you can't correct design mistakes by keeping old
> syntax around.

Correct, but breaking everything in the language will make Perl6 a
completely new one, just preserving the name. And the community will have to
relearn from scratch to love it. Are you ready to almost trash all the
current perl5 library? 

> PS: I'm happy with Python, and I'm not going to complain about it. But
> as a programmer who uses both languages, I'm just asking because I'm
> curious...

I actually hope python 3.0 is not that far away, since there are some tiny
things that really need to be fixed in python2. Perl and Python, after all,
have a very different philosophy and the featurefulness of perl6 will be
matched with the extreme simplicity and clarity of python (which is also
a feature)

-- 
Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Now running FreeBSD 5.3-beta7
Blog: http://vvolonghi.blogspot.com



From nick at craig-wood.com  Sun Oct 31 12:30:02 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 31 Oct 2004 17:30:02 GMT
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrncoa6j7.sl4.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
>  Perl is going to change dramatically to become a more powerful and
>  easier to (read|write) language.

Actually Perl6 is one of my major reasons for retooling my brain in
Python.  I've been using perl for a long time - I have 3 revisions of
programming perl on my bookshelf. I first learnt Perl4.  Perl5 seemed
a reasonable way to cludge on some OO stuff etc without completely
redoing the language.  However Perl6 completely misses the target as
far as I am concerned.  Its too byzantine, too big and just tries to
be too clever.  Yes its fun to have a programming language you can
write techno-puns in (and yes I've enjoyed that part of perl too).
However I found through personal experience that TIMTOWDI isn't good
for large projects and I don't see Perl6 making this better.

To sum up, Perl6 made a perfect opportunity for me to migrate to
Python!

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 18:11:45 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:11:45 -0600
Subject: list comprehension for splitting strings into pairs
Message-ID: <d11dcfba04101215117acc1bee@mail.gmail.com>

Here's what I'm doing:

>>> lst = ['1', '1:2', '3', '-1:4']
>>> splits = []
>>> for s in lst:
... 	pair = s.split(':')
... 	if len(pair) != 2:
... 		pair.append(None)
... 	splits.append(pair)
... 	
>>> splits
[['1', None], ['1', '2'], ['3', None], ['-1', '4']]

Basically, I want to split each string into two items, substituting
None when no second item is specified in the string.  (As you can see,
in my strings, the items are delimited by ':').

It seems like a simple enough operation that I should be able to write
a list comprehension for it, but I can't figure out how...  Any
suggestions?

Steve
-- 
You can wordify anything if you just verb it.
        - Bucky Katt, Get Fuzzy


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 30 11:12:12 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:12:12 -0700
Subject: Color schemes
In-Reply-To: <41838c6e$0$7153$d5255a0c@news.wanadoo.nl>
References: <41838c6e$0$7153$d5255a0c@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <20041030074938.0C19.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Mark Schonewille <nospam at nospam.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Is anyone using a color scheme for his Python scripts? I suspect 
> most people are using a text editor which may or may not support 
> colorisation of scripts (like Apple's Script Editor does).

All editors that I would choose to use have built-in syntax highlighting. 
Being color-sensitive, I find this a major win for productivity, similar
to having a 'find' dialog, multiple open documents, etc.


> The page at 
> <http://interscript.sourceforge.net/interscript/doc/en_iscr_0328.html> 
> contains a colorized tokenizing script. I assume the script can 
> be used to make colour schemes and that a similar script is used 
> to create all the scripts shown on the website.

I would say that it is likely that such a script was _used to help
produce the web pages_ that present the source code of the modules at
the site.  Whether or not the page authors used the web pages that had
been generated via this method as documentation themselves, in order to
help later work on the project, does not seem specified on the web page,
though it is both possible and likely.


> Do you use a similar script in a Python IDE or in your text 
> editor to colorize your Python scripts?

Sych scripts are only necessary when one wants to post a "pretty"
version of Python source on a web site.  Being that I have no desire,
nor need to post such things, I do not use it.  Pure source without line
numbers is much easier to copy/paste.  Sourceforge, on the other hand,
does present users with syntax highlighted text representations of code
when viewed through CVS. For example, here is the much loved asyncore.py
as viewed through Sourceforge's web CVS:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Lib/asyncore.py?view=markup

Ahh, so pretty.  They use, I'm sure, some variant or reimplementation of
a colorization script, though not necessarily the one that is offered on
the page you link.

 - Josiah



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct 12 08:38:22 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:38:22 -0500
Subject: Core dump with increased recursionlimit
In-Reply-To: <slrncmn6h5.739.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <slrncmn6h5.739.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <20041012123821.GA30631@unpythonic.net>

I thought I was getting similar behavior on 
    fedora-release-2-4
    kernel-2.6.8-1.521
    glibc-2.3.3-27
    python-2.3.3-6
until I checked and saw that I had a 10240k soft limit for stack size.
When I change the limit to "unlimited" (ulimit -S -s unlimited) both the
Python program and C programs run to "completion" (a long traceback in
the Python program's case).

Jeff
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From thorsten.reichelt at urz.uni-heidelberg.de  Mon Oct 25 10:09:06 2004
From: thorsten.reichelt at urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Thorsten Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:09:06 +0200
Subject: collision detection and penetration depth (Blender?)
References: <0jopn01agpcmadln9btclb6m4klh0venmp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <tl1qn01kvanurdo7i5mbu3r8vq1g4ei266@4ax.com>

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:52:19 +0200, Thorsten Reichelt
<thorsten.reichelt at urz.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:

>[...]
>So, my questions are: Is there an existing Python module that offers
>exactly what we need? If not, what should be my course of action: 
>1. Try to get a working .exe out of the FreeSOLID package (it has some
>sample apps) and passing args on command line?
>2. Try to reproduce the needed code in Python (without really
>understanding what I'm doing *ouch*)?
>3. Try to make the FreeSOLID functions usable in my Python scripts?
>(This would be embedding/extending, right? Haven't done that before,
>either. And it seems there's a lot of c involved again.)

And, another additional thought: What about blender? I'm not really
sure what blender can and cannot be used for. Would it be possible to
use blender functions for in an external (our) app? Blender certainly
has collision detection, doesn't it?

Regards, 

Thorsten Reichelt


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 17:58:47 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:58:47 +0200
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
Message-ID: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

I hesitate a bit to post this, but... on the Italian Python NG, somebody
was asking whether there was any way to convert an integer number x into
a string which represents it in an arbitrary base N (given a sequence
with a len of N that gives the digits to use) as "a single expression".

I haven't found a really general way, much less a clear one, but, the
best I have so far is...:

def number_in_base(x, N, digits, maxlen=99):
    return '-'[x>=0:] + (
        (x and ''.join([digits[k%N] for i in range(maxlen) 
                        for k in [abs(x)//N**i] if k>0])[::-1]
        ) or digits[0])

Besides the lack of clarity, the obvious defect of this approach is that
darned 'maxlen' parameter -- but then, since I can have only a 'for',
not a 'while', in a list comprehension or generator expression, and I
don't think recursion qualifies as 'a single expression'...:-(

Anyway, improvements and suggestions welcome, thanks!


Alex


From robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Oct 27 04:07:59 2004
From: robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:07:59 +0100
Subject: Please help - get average
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5548.1098863403.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19CC4@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>
	<mailman.5548.1098863403.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417F575F.5030101@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Cliff Wells wrote:
......
> 
> total = 0.0
> count = 0
> number = None
> 
> while number not in ('q', 'Q'):
>     number = raw_input("Enter a number (or Q to quit): ")
>     try:
>         number = float(number)
>     except ValueError:
>         continue
>     total += number
>     count += 1
> 
> print "The average is:", total / count
> 
...... interestingly the standard algorithms for means/deviations are 
numerically poor. As an example

 >>> (1.e30+1-1.0e30)/3
0.0

Where we have total loss of information in one of the terms.


There are better algorithms involving recursion,

eg

    mu[n] = (data[n]+(n-1)*mu[n-1])/n

The error in the existing estimate, mu[n-1], gets multiplied by the 
number (n-1)/n which is less than one (ie the errors are damped).

However, in the case of widely differing magnitudes I think you need to 
accumulate the sums specially.
-- 
Robin Becker


From grante at visi.com  Sun Oct 10 11:30:32 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 15:30:32 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-10, Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Why the distinction?  In your code you call bool on
> an object at least once and perhaps twice.  The
> truth of an object should only be checked once.  You
> also have asymmetric return values.  Consider
>
>    s1   s2    s1 xor s2
>    "A"  "B"    False
>    "A"  ""     True
>    ""   "B"    "B"
>    ""   ""     False

Hey, _that_ particular bug isn't my fault.  Somebody else
decided that "and" and "or" don't return boolean values like
they should. ;)

> Esthetics suggest that either "A"/"" return "A" or that
> ""/"B" return True.  Mine does the latter.  Yours does
> neither.  Probably the Pythonic way, assuming 'xor'
> can be considered Pythonic, is to return the object
> which gave the True value, like this
>
> def xor_f(x, y):
>    bx = bool(x)
>    by = bool(y)
>    if bx:
>      if not by:
>        return bx
>      return False
>    else:
>      if by:
>        return by
>    return False

That's ugly.  But then again, "A" or "B" returning "A" is ugly.

While I agree with your points, they're immaterial to the
argument I was making.  The poster to which I responded was
arguing that "xor" didn't make sense because having it coerce
it's arguments to booleans was "wrong".

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Zippy's brain cells
                                  at               are straining to bridge
                               visi.com            synapses...


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 29 11:36:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:36:20 -0400
Subject: OT: invalid email bounces (was Re: Looking for more Cookbook
	contributors)
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410290730.6704e38@posting.google.com>
References: <0kavn019dk6vf7ini32t3muc9e6r9j7t1n@4ax.com>	<mailman.5575.1098897039.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gmdbxx.o57i68hu9achN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.5641.1099011631.5135.python-list@python.org>	<D3kgd.10428$KJ6.3501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.5648.1099041856.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6f402501.0410290730.6704e38@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DMmdnXkO2aDp_h_cRVn-oA@powergate.ca>

 >>>I decided to /dev/null them instead of bouncing
>>>in part to prevent the validation and in part because the 'from'
>>>addresses were often forged, so my bounce mail would either end up in
>>>some Random J. Blow's box or in turn get bounced back to me.
>>
>>I wish more admins would do this.  Bouncing messages to invalid accounts
>>is worse than worthless these days.
> 
> I'm taking this even more OT... my biggest source of junk mail is
> virus warnings sent automatically as responses to virus emails with
> forged from addresses. Its *really* annoying.....

It may all be off-topic (and I've changed the subject, hint, hint)
but I thank all of you for bringing the point up, and I've just
reconfigured my server to stop bouncing mails sent to unrecognized
addresses on my domains.  Should have thought of that myself... :-(

-Peter


From __NOSPAM at rogers.com__NOSPAM__  Sun Oct  3 20:28:46 2004
From: __NOSPAM at rogers.com__NOSPAM__ (Martin)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:28:46 -0400
Subject: Embedding Python
In-Reply-To: <10ltp863omma41d@corp.supernews.com>
References: <4audnXFO7feC3MPcRVn-vg@rogers.com>
	<10ltp863omma41d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <UqSdneKmuZGqBP3cRVn-iw@rogers.com>

Dmitry Borisov wrote:
>>Greetings,
>>
>>I am new to python and wish to embed python in an 3D graphics
>>application to provide application automation. The high level goal is to
>>be able to drive my app from a script for batch job like behavior rather
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Martin,
> I would recommend looking at nebula device for that. Their 3D engine
> supports couple of different languages like Tcl/Tk, Lua and Python.
> http://www.radonlabs.de/
> Have fun,
> Dmitry/
> 
> 
Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, the application I am working 
on is is quite mature in its life-cycle and overhauling the core library 
is not an alternative.

My question really boils down to:

   Can someone point me to a (minimal) example showing strategies for 
application automation using Python. If the example involves a QT app 
that would be a plus.

Thanks

Martin


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Oct 31 14:10:16 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:10:16 GMT
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5736.1099249259.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <clrke5$a3n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0410282309470.21849-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>	<mailman.5683.1099079698.5135.python-list@python.org>	<clv204$nh8$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<mailman.5736.1099249259.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sMahd.72$O11.1@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Donnal Walter wrote:
> This is not an exact analogy, but if Python were licensed under GPL (or 
> OSL), would *all* programs written *in* Python need to have the same 
> license?

It's in the GPL FAQ:
  http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL

"""
    If a  programming language interpreter is released under the GPL,
    does that  mean programs written to be interpreted by it must be
    under GPL-compatible licenses?

    When the interpreter just interprets a language, the answer is
    no. The interpreted program, to the interpreter, is just data;
    a free software license like the GPL, based on copyright law,
    cannot limit what data you use the interpreter on. You can run
    it on any data (interpreted program), any way you like, and
    there are no requirements about licensing that data to anyone.

    However, when the interpreter is extended to provide "bindings"
    to other facilities (often, but not necessarily, libraries),
    the interpreted program is effectively linked to the facilities
    it uses through these bindings. So if these facilities are
    released under the GPL, the interpreted program that uses them
    must be released in a GPL-compatible way. The JNI or Java Native
    Interface is an example of such a facility; libraries that are
    accessed in this way are linked dynamically with the Java programs
    that call them.

    Another similar and very common case is to provide libraries with
    the interpreter which are themselves interpreted. For instance,
    Perl comes with many Perl modules, and a Java implementation
    comes with many Java classes. These libraries and the programs
    that call them are always dynamically linked together.

    A consequence is that if you choose to use GPL'd Perl modules or
    Java classes in your program, you must release the program in a
    GPL-compatible way, regardless of the license used in the Perl
    or Java interpreter that the combined Perl or Java program will
    run on.
"""

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sat Oct 30 10:34:24 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:34:24 +0100
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <2uhl84F2ahviqU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<HNedne3QcamF4h7cRVn-3g@speakeasy.net>
	<1099144064.931829.257240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<2uhl84F2ahviqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cm08pl$9cd$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> C. Functions that could be made attributes of lists/sequences
> 
> max, min, len, enumerate, sum
> 
> But that would require to implement them for all sequence types or
> implement a common basetype 'seq'.

And iterators?
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Oct 18 15:42:47 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:42:47 -0700
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<4173eed0$0$29488$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <donn-359BF6.12424718102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <4173eed0$0$29488$636a15ce at news.free.fr>,
 Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> wrote:
...
> *Short answer :*
> args are passed by ref, but bindings are local.
> 
> *Long answer :*
> You first need to understand what 'variables' in Python are. They are in 
> fact just a symbol referencing an object. Think of a Python 'variable' 
> as an entry in a dict, the name of the variable (the 'symbol') being the 
> key and the reference to the object being the value (AFAIK, this is 
> exactly what they are).
> 
> You also need to understand the difference between mutable and immutable 
> objects. Strings, numerics and tuples are immutables. Which means that 
> you can not change them. When doing :
> s = "Hello "
> s += "World"
> ... you are not modifying the string object bound to s, but creating a 
> new string object and binding it to s.

Well, true enough for string, but not true for list for example.

Aside from this wretched wart on the language, as another followup
has already pointed out, you really don't need to distinguish
mutable vs. immutable to understand argument passing and variable
binding in Python.

If you write:
  def f(a, b):
      a = 5
      b.flog(5)

... it makes no difference whether either argument is mutable
or immutable.  a becomes a different object notwithstanding,
and b.flog operates on the caller's original object whether flog
modifies anything or not.  We tend to make this too complicated.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 31 05:09:27 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:09:27 +0200
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<4183f2b0$0$209$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<2uiaqmF2as1ihU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<4184c277$0$265$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <1gmirtb.dymeyujh00iuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:

> Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> > Max M wrote:
> >>
> >>I just wonder what the difference is between .net, Mono and Parrot?
> >>
> >>To me they all seem to pretty similar goals.
> > 
> > .NET and Mono _are_ pretty much the same - Mono is an open-source
> > reimplementation of the .NET framework.
> 
> Yes, I know that. But know that is both .net and mono, why parrot?

Parrot is a completely different and disjoint virtual machine wrt
Mono/dotNet, optimized to run several VHLLs, including Perl (both 5 and
6) and others, and without any of the constraints that Mono has because
of the decision to follow Microsoft's CRL standard.

There are, of course, several reasons for the Parrot people to do their
own VM rather than accept Microsoft's design (or Sun's, for that
matter).  I don't understand your "why" question...!


Alex


From darren at coolpink.net  Sun Oct  3 14:04:16 2004
From: darren at coolpink.net (darren at coolpink.net)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 18:04:16 -0000
Subject: ANN: Venster 0.7
Message-ID: <20041003180416.9171.qmail@ws2.coolpink.net>

Sorry, but I am out of the office on Monday 27th September until Monday 11th October 2004.

I will respond to your e-mail when I return

If you need technical support please contact simonh at coolpink.net or mazen at coolpink.net

For any other enquiries please call the office on (0113) 272 3191 

Thanks for your e-mail.




From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 14 21:33:00 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 01:33:00 GMT
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4920.1097716237.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4925.1097734722.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416e9bc5$0$23221$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4982.1097802249.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416f28cc$0$27314$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-15, Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:

>>>> Originally it wasn't, but recent versions are.
>>>
>>> 'Recent' meaning since 1974?  ;)
>> 
>> Yup.  I admit that was sub-optimal phrasing.  I should have
>> said something more like "The first version wasn't but the rest
>> were."
>
> And I thought you were just showing your age ;)

Nah, I'm not quite that old -- my Unix experiece only goes back
20 years to the days of v7 on a PDP11.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I Know A Joke!!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From hanzspam at yahoo.com.au  Sun Oct 10 05:57:35 2004
From: hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (Hannu Kankaanp??)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 02:57:35 -0700
Subject: 'psyco' problem
References: <1097371920.617950@mystique.esoterica.pt>
Message-ID: <840592e1.0410100157.1fcc3564@posting.google.com>

Paulo da Silva <psXdaXsilva at esotericaX.ptX> wrote in message news:<1097371920.617950 at mystique.esoterica.pt>...
> When running the following program:
> 
> #! /bin/env python
> # -*- coding: iso-8859-15 -*-
> 
> import psyco
> psyco.full()
> 
> def main():
>      n=eval("123+456")
>      print n
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      main()
> 
> 
> I got:
> ./tp.py:7: warning: eval()/execfile() cannot see the locals in functions
> bound by Psyco; consider using eval() in its two- or three-arguments form
>    def main():
> 579
> 
> What does this mean? Is there anything wrong?
> 
> Thank you.

It means you can't do this if main() is bound by Psyco:

def main():
    x=5
    print eval("123+x")

because as the warning message says, Psycoed eval() cannot see the
locals (x here). And it suggest that you should consider using
eval() in its two- or three-arguments form, which is described
in the Python Library Reference. So with Psyco, you might use

y = 3
def main():
    x=5
    print eval("y+x", globals(), {'x':x})

But in your case, it of course doesn't matter because in
the expression 123+456 you aren't using any locals.


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 23:01:15 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik vaddadi)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:01:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <20041025223914.0B2C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041027030115.82565.qmail@web20427.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> 
> kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik) wrote:
> > 
> > Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote in
> message
> news:<Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA at giganews.com>...
> 
> > > If you are worried about some numbers growing
> too much, then
> > > check them yourself, you'll get much better
> results that way.
> > 
> > maybe, why not use an automated test built-in 2
> the language? i get it
> > 4 free.
> 
> Overflow errors are not automated tests.

why not? they detect bugs.



		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
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From darren at coolpink.net  Tue Oct  5 00:00:45 2004
From: darren at coolpink.net (darren at coolpink.net)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 04:00:45 -0000
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Seventeenth release of PythonCAD now available
Message-ID: <20041005040045.14878.qmail@ws2.coolpink.net>

Sorry, but I am out of the office on Monday 27th September until Monday 11th October 2004.

I will respond to your e-mail when I return

If you need technical support please contact simonh at coolpink.net or mazen at coolpink.net

For any other enquiries please call the office on (0113) 272 3191 

Thanks for your e-mail.




From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 20 07:33:50 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:33:50 -0400
Subject: Python + Java knowledge
In-Reply-To: <4175ed72$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <mailman.5169.1098194201.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4175ed72$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <g7sdd.800$si.473@lakeread04>

Maurice LING wrote:

> Frohnhofer, James wrote:
> 
>> I have the same problem.  My 9 to 5 is using Java 1.1 (actually Visual 
>> J++) --
>> don't ask . . .
>>
>> That wasn't a problem in terms of skills and knowledge (and fun), 
>> after I got
>> my kids to bed I would fire up IntelliJ and work on any of my pet Java
>> projects.  But now that I've got the Python bug, I'm afraid my Java is
>> slipping.  I haven't even tried out 1.5.
>>
>> I was thinking of moving to Jython for my pet projects, but Jython 
>> appears to
>> be 2 minor versions behind straight Python.
>>
>> I don't have a solution or advice, only commiseration.
> 
> 
> I am amazed about people like Eric Raymond that can pick up and use a 
> dozen language, how did they do it? It is equally amazing that 
> programming jobs these days require half a dozen programming languages 
> known. I came with a background in Pascal and bits of C, and some xBase 
> languages, then picked up Java and Python. Considering that my 1st 
> bachelors degree is in biochemistry, I may be proud already...
> 
It's always been necessary to adapt your programming to the available 
languages - much more so in the old days, when typically there wouldn't 
be a large choice of languages for any specific piece of hardware.

> Programming itself does not tax on the knowledge of a language to its 
> fullest but debugging does. Sometimes when you email to API developers 
> for help on that API, they may come back with a "that may be a <your 
> language> specific problem, it works out well with <my language>." 
> Someone did say this "citizenship is an abitrary institution whose main 
> objective is to discriminate"...... From the other end of the world, I 
> applaud EU for tearing down country barriers.

People who only know one or two languages regard programming as a 
language-specific skill, whereas older hands understand that programming 
is programming is programming, and are prepared to use whatever tools 
come to hand (while still having their favorites).

In programming I'm afraid that for some the barriers still remain. As a 
European first and an expatriate Brit second I'm glad to see the 
*economic* barriers between European countries being lowered, but it 
would be a sad day if the cultural diversity of Europe were to cease 
being of interest and importance.

> 
> As mentioned in my post on 'reverse jython', I am envisioning the day 
> where mixed language programming is a reality.
> 
> maurice

It's always been a reality - I write as one who mixed assembly language 
and Algol 60 back in 1967. The goal of making it *easier* to mix 
languages is approaching ever-so-slowly, as system complexity is 
increasing faster than language implementations can keep up.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct  7 06:51:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 06:51:20 -0400
Subject: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <DaKdnbgpTNU0gvjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>

Brian van den Broek wrote:
> I'm looking for a stand alone Python wiki engine that does not require a 
> web server such as Apache or MS IIS. I have found such beasts in other 
> languages (e.g. <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EddiesWiki> in C++, and a couple 
> in Ruby), but none written in Python. A pointer to any that I've missed 
> would be most appreciated.
> 
> To give some idea of my requirements: Python is the only programming 
> language that I know anything to speak of, and my skills are modest. 
> (Python is a thesis procrastination projec and I've done no web 
> programming to date.) I have an itch in the PIM domain, and I am wanting 
> to find a project as a basis to build upon that is 1) appropriate in 
> scope/complexity for a relative newcomer and 2) would enable me to have 
> a personal wiki (not exposed to the web). I am running WindowsMe, and 
> Python 2.3.4. I don't mind if I have to get some extra packages, but I 
> definitely don't want to have to come to terms with something like Zope. 
> (One day, perhaps, but not too soon.)
> 
> If there were one that used ReStructuredText for markup, that would be 
> great. But at this point, I think I'd be better off not restricting the 
> pool :-)

Although I'm not yet sure (not having examined the source) whether
it would be suitable for you given your constraints above, you
might at least compare Trac (http://www.edgewall.com/products/trac/)
in terms of capability and approach.  It was not at all easy for
me to install on Linux, but that's largely my own fault and not
an inherent problem with the tool.  Furthermore it has a standalone
server mode that was added in recent versions (but may not be 100%
complete... check the CHANGELOG or something for notes).

I suspect the standalone Moin-moin approach would be best, though
I believe at least one of the other lightweight ones is able to
run standalone.

You *have* see http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines, haven't you?
It identifies those that are in Python and standalone...

-Peter


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Mon Oct 18 11:43:03 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 08:43:03 -0700
Subject: List Flatten
References: <5c882bb5.0410161531.41713754@posting.google.com>
	<wlLcd.2992$Ug4.819@trndny01>
	<1glunh2.tgeb3kedb2ouN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0410180743.62059c68@posting.google.com>

Comparing versions for speed, Raymond Hettinger's version is quite
slow (even 10 or more times slower than mine for certain kinds of
lists).

Into the most nested cicle of Alex Martelli's version there is a
function call to isatomic (and the try-except) that slow down the
program a lot. Removing them (we expand lists only) we obtan the short
Peter Otten's version, that is a bit better than mine for very nested
lists and a bit worse for quite flat lists (that are the most common,
I think).

Thank you all,
bear hugs,
bearophile


From nicolas at lehuen.com  Tue Oct 12 21:39:20 2004
From: nicolas at lehuen.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 03:39:20 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <ckhemc$qtb$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<416b9eed$0$11828$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<mailman.4742.1097573758.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416bd75f$0$10909$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<ckhemc$qtb$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <416c874b$0$28953$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Aahz wrote:
 > BTW, Nicolas, it'd be nice if you did not post quoted-printable.  I'm
 > leaving the crud in so you can see it.

I write non-ASCII emails, since I'm french (using accentuated characters 
and all that), what is the encoding you would suggest me to use ? AFAIK, 
quoted-printable is a standard encoding (though a poor one). The MUA I 
used may have chosed a bad encoding, since it was Outlook Express. At 
home, I use Thunderbird 0.8, tell me if you feel better with the 
encoding it uses.

 > In article <416bd75f$0$10909$afc38c87 at news.easynet.fr>,
 > Nicolas Lehuen <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote:
 >
 >>Yeah I know this. My point was that when benchmarking single-threaded =
 >>programs vs multithreaded ones, you have to choose the kind of program =
 >>you use : CPU-intensive vs IO-intensive. On a single CPU machine, =
 >>CPU-intensive program will always run better in a single-threaded 
model. =
 >>But of course, if you have 2 procs and a nice threading model, you can =
 >>even do 2 CPU-intensive tasks simultaneously, which Python cannot do if =
 >>I've understood everything so far.
 >
 >
 > Python itself cannot, but there's nothing preventing anyone from writing
 > numeric extensions that release the GIL.

There is nothing preventing anyone from writing a new language from 
scratch, either. What I was suggesting was that we could try to make 
Python a more thread-friendly language, so that we could write more 
CPU-efficient code in the new context of multicore or multi-CPU machines 
  without having to revert to a low-level language like C.

If only I could tell the Python Interpreter 'OK, this bit of Python code 
is thread-safe, so you don't need to hold the GIL on it', maybe I could 
be more efficient, but as of today, this is a thing that can only be 
done in C, not in Python. Of course, being able to release the GIL from 
Python code is not a true solution. A true solution would be to get rid 
of the GIL itself.

Regards,

Nicolas


From adijkstra at baanders NOSPAM consultancy.nl  Tue Oct  5 03:43:51 2004
From: adijkstra at baanders NOSPAM consultancy.nl (duikboot)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:43:51 +0200
Subject: simple Tkinter Question
In-Reply-To: <10m3uc176vc3697@corp.supernews.com>
References: <10m3uc176vc3697@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <41625058$0$8339$d4d0a361@news.speedlinq.nl>

Maboroshi wrote:
> Hi I was curious how I can pass arguments through a Tkinter Entry widget
> 
> say I have an Entry widget and a Button widget I enter text into the 
> entry and now I want the button to process the text is there a certain 
> command I have to use to assign the button to the entry or vise versa
> 
> anyhelp appreciated

Take a look at 
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm

example

from Tkinter import *

def pr_text():
     text = entry.get()
     print text

gui=Tk()
entry=Entry(gui)
entry.pack()
button=Button(gui, text="print", command=pr_text)
button.pack()

gui.mainloop()


-- 
http://www.baandersconsultancy.nl | http://www.nosonis.com


From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Fri Oct  8 11:39:02 2004
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:39:02 +0200
Subject: Database and Interface for Python
References: <6f402501.0410071411.17321f9a@posting.google.com>
	<20041007224307.2E28.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
	<6f402501.0410072321.199be425@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041008153902.7463.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

Michael Foord wrote:


>> > I think the web server I use will allow MySQL databases, so if I
>> > install it on my windoze box and install the MySQLdb python module
>> > then I'm well away....
>>  
>> Webserwer has nothing to do with database.
>>  
> 
> It does if it's a 'web application' your developing !! Whatever
> solution I choose has to work on my server *and* on my windoze nox for
> testing !!

You can use (almost) any web server with any database, they are separate
components (except few non-popular integrated solutions), so your web
server will allow you to use mysql.

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl


From mustafademirhan at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 13:36:30 2004
From: mustafademirhan at gmail.com (Mustafa Demirhan)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 10:36:30 -0700
Subject: question on list comprehensions
References: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <560b81a4.0410150936.573bb6c4@posting.google.com>

Why not just use while loops instead of for loops? You dont have to
create a new array each time you want a loop - you can simply use an
index integer.

    i = 0
    while i < 5000000:
        res [0] = res [0] + i
        i = i + 1

Takes less than 2 seconds on my laptop.


Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> wrote in message news:<ckm2up$cjv$1 at news01.cit.cornell.edu>...
> Hi,
> 
> I need to replace the following loop with a list comprehension:
> 
> res=[0]
> for i in arange(10000):
>  res[0]=res[0]+i
> 
> In practice, res is a complex 2D numarray. For this reason, the regular
> output of a list comprehension will not work: constructing a list of every
> intermediate result will result in huge hits in speed and memory.
> 
> I saw this article at ASPN:
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/204297
> 
> def thislist():
>     """Return a reference to the list object being constructed by the
>     list comprehension from which this function is called. Raises an
>     exception if called from anywhere else.
>     """
>     import sys
>     d = sys._getframe(1).f_locals
>     nestlevel = 1
>     while '_[%d]' % nestlevel in d:
>         nestlevel += 1
>     return d['_[%d]' % (nestlevel - 1)].__self__
> 
> Could the list comprehension include something like thislist().pop(0), to be
> called when len(thislist)>1? (I think this could work, but am having
> trouble with the syntax.) Or is there a better way to approach the problem?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Darren


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct  2 21:08:57 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 18:08:57 -0700
Subject: proposed struct module format code addition
Message-ID: <415F5129.3040006@uci.edu>

Good day everyone,

I have produced a patch against the latest CVS to add support for two 
new formatting characters in the struct module.  It is currently an RFE, 
which I include a link to at the end of this post.  Please read the 
email before you respond to it.

Generally, the struct module is for packing and unpacking of binary 
data.  It includes support to pack and unpack the c types:
byte, char, short, long, long long, char[], *, and certain variants of 
those (signed/unsigned, big/little endian, etc.)


Purpose
-------
I had proposed two new formatting characters, 'g' and 'G' (for biGint or 
lonG int).

There was one primary purpose, to offer users the opportunity to specify 
their own integer lengths (very useful for cryptography, and real-world 
applications that involve non-standard sized integers).  Current 
solutions involve shifting, masking, and multiple passes over data.

There is a secondary purpose, and that is that future n-byte integers 
(like 16-byte/128-bit integers as supported by SSE2) are already taken 
care of.

It also places packing and unpacking of these larger integers in the 
same module as packing and packing of other integers, floats, etc.  This 
makes documentation easy.



Functionality-wise, it merely uses the two C functions 
_PyLong_FromByteArray() and _PyLong_ToByteArray(), with a few lines to 
handle interfacing with the pack and unpack functions in the struct module.



An example of use is as follows:
 >>> struct.pack('>3g', -1)
'\xff\xff\xff'
 >>> struct.pack('>3g', 2**23-1)
'\x7f\xff\xff'
 >>> struct.pack('>3g', 2**23)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: long too big to convert
 >>> struct.pack('>3G', 2**23)
'\x80\x00\x00'

It follows the struct module standard 'lowercase for signed, uppercase 
for unsigned'.


Arguments
---------
There seem to be a few arguments against its inclusion into 
structmodule.c...

Argument:
    The size specifier is variable, so you must know the size/magnitude 
of the thing you are (un)packing before you (un)pack it.

My Response:
    All use cases I have for this particular mechanism involve not using 
'variable' sized structs, but fixed structs with integers of 
non-standard byte-widths.  Specifically, I have a project in which I use 
some 3 and 5 byte unsigned integers.  One of my (un)pack format 
specifiers is '>H3G3G', and another is '>3G5G' (I have others, but these 
are the most concise).
    Certainly this does not fit the pickle/cPickle long (un)packing 
use-case, but that problem relies on truely variable long integer 
lengths, of which this specifier does not seek to solve.
    Really, the proposed 'g' and 'G' format specifiers are only as 
variable as the previously existing 's' format specifier.


Argument:
    The new specifiers are not standard C types.

My Response:
    Certainly they are not standard C types, but they are flexible 
enough to subsume all current integer C type specifiers.  The point was 
to allow a user to have the option of specifying their own integer 
lengths.  This supports use cases involving certain kinds of large 
dataset processing (my use case, which I may discuss after we release) 
and cryptography, specifically in the case of PKC...
while 1:
     blk = get_block()
     iblk = struct.unpack('>128G', blk)[0]
     uiblk = pow(iblk, power, modulous)
     write_block(struct.pack('>128G', uiblk))

    The 'p' format specifier is also not a standard C type, and yet it 
is included in struct, specifically because it is useful.


Argument:
    You can already do the same thing with:
     pickle.encode_long(long_int)
     pickle.decode_long(packed_long)
and some likely soon-to-be included additions to the binascii module.

My Response:
    That is not the same.  Nontrivial problems require multiple passes 
over your data with multiple calls.  A simple:
     struct.unpack('H3G3G', st)
becomes:
     pickle.decode_long(st[:2]) #or an equivalent struct call
     pickle.decode_long(st[2:5])
     pickle.decode_long(st[5:8])
And has no endian or sign options, or requires the status quo using of 
masks and shifts to get the job done.  As previously stated, one point 
of the module is to reduce the amount of bit shifting and masking required.


Argument:
    We could just document a method for packing/unpacking these kinds of 
things in the struct module, if this really is where people would look 
for such a thing.

My Response:
    I am not disputing that there are other methods of doing this, I am 
saying that the struct module includes a framework and documentation 
location that can include this particular modification with little 
issue, which is far better than any other proposed location for 
equivalent functionality.
    Note that functionality equivalent to pickle.encode/decode_long is 
NOT what this proposed enhancement is for.


Argument:
    The struct module has a steep learning curve already, and this new 
format specifier doesn't help it.

My Response:
    I can't see how a new format specifier would necessarily make the 
learning curve any more difficult, if it was even difficult in the first 
place.



Why am I even posting
---------------------
Raymond has threatened to close this RFE due to the fact that only I 
have been posting to state that I would find such an addition useful.

If you believe this functionality is useful, or even if you think that I 
am full of it, tell us: http://python.org/sf/1023290

  - Josiah


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 29 09:20:27 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:20:27 -0400
Subject: Directly calling threaded class instance methods and attributes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5626.1098988485.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5624.1098986746.5135.python-list@python.org>	<just-732139.20082828102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.5626.1098988485.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <FK6dnT0q_rQG3h_cRVn-hg@powergate.ca>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
>>>>def goo(n):
> 
> ...     global val2
> ...     _lock = lock
> ...     for i in xrange(n):
> ...         _lock.acquire()
> ...         val2 += 1
> ...         _lock.release()
> 
> 
> ...for a little bit faster (though the locking/unlocking will overwhelm
> the actual time spent.

If you're intent on making the code less maintainable in
order to achieve tiny improvements in speed, at least
store local references to the entire method, not just
to the object:

     global val2
     acq = lock.acquire
     rel = lock.release
     for i in xrange(n):
         acq()
         val2 += 1
         rel()

-Peter


From spamtrap at iupui.edu  Sat Oct  9 13:25:14 2004
From: spamtrap at iupui.edu (Bruce D. Ray)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 12:25:14 -0500
Subject: compiling using native compiler
References: <95650bb5.0410050819.2f34f323@posting.google.com>
	<10m6c2frt1muqad@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <spamtrap-0910041225140001@physics.nmr.iupui.edu>

In article <10m6c2frt1muqad at corp.supernews.com>, Tom Cocagne
<rakis at gmpexpress.net> wrote:

>  I?was?in?a?similar?position?the?other?day?and?wound?up?needing?to?use
> 'smake' instead of 'make'. I know very little about SGI systems but after
> reading the platform-specific notes in the readme and using 'smake', it all
> worked for me.


Does the python you built include the audio, opengl, and
other special support components for SGI?  If it does, how
did you get those to compile?  When I try to add those,
the compilation produces errors that indicate problems
in where the Makefile looks for those components.


From jdadson at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 21:25:29 2004
From: jdadson at yahoo.com (Jive Dadson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 01:25:29 GMT
Subject: porting Python
Message-ID: <416349E9.F12B4AE1@yahoo.com>

Is there documentation on how to port Python to a new operating system?
The system has a lot of posix/MSWindows system calls.  By hacking around
on the Windows version a bit, I've been able to get it to compile and
run some simple programs, writing to files and whatnot.  But I really
don't know what I'm doing.  Right now I'm having trouble getting
"threading" to load.  I haven't figured out how to set up the search
path, "site.py", and no telling what else.

Thanks.


From ghum at gmx.net  Tue Oct  5 09:17:56 2004
From: ghum at gmx.net (Harald Armin Massa)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 06:17:56 -0700
Subject: their: Re: python vs c#
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gkih9r.pfgqukvpt1rcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<37tjl09an200u6tejkrtklc8ib86uk7rm1@4ax.com>
	<7E_6d.33917$35.1643590@news4.tin.it>
	<cji8qo$qro$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
	<1gl21dj.16ck8e5edtxleN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5db4fffa.0410050517.1a26ab6c@posting.google.com>

Alex,

> Sorry, but I think you're being too restrictive.  More impressively, so
> does one William Shakespeare (Comedy of Errors):
> """
> There's not a man I meet but doth salute me,
>  As if I were their well-acquainted friend.
> """
> See?  "a man" ... "their".

I understand that "their" is quite valuable in English Language. May
it be a good candidate to replace @ as a decorator-keyword?

class fishandchips(object):
    their classmethod
    def salute(self):
       print "hello"

their best greetings,

Harald


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Oct 25 16:38:03 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:38:03 -0500
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <Cp6dnfgldtGq1-DcRVn-3g@giganews.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Cp6dnfgldtGq1-DcRVn-3g@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <417D642B.4050601@colorstudy.com>

Istvan Albert wrote:
> Ian Bicking wrote:
> 
>> don't even have to GPL your code, you just have to abide by the GPL 
>> (i.e., provide source); you could distribute your code under any 
>> GPL-compatible license, such as a BSD-style license.
> 
> 
> No if you derive from GPL then you must release your program
> as GPL and you may not release it with a "GPL compatible"
> license.

If you derive the code, yes -- like, you take the GPL code and edit it. 
  At that point there's little way to distinguish your modifications 
from the original code.

If the code is a separate entity, but used in the same program, then 
it's not so clear.  You can always release it under multiple licenses, 
but that's usually only done if there is a question of GPL-compatibility 
(e.g., Artistic License).

When you release code under the GPL you retain copyright to that code, 
including a copyright to any changes or additions you make.  You can 
take that code and release it under any license, though you can only 
relicense code you have the copyright to.

So if you use libreadline (or some GPL library) in your program, you 
must abide by the *terms* of the GPL, which implies some licensing that 
allows people to view and edit the source, since those rights are not 
implied.  If you use, say, a BSD-style license (w/o advertising clause, 
to make it GPL-compatible), that's cool.  If someone comes along and 
takes your code and separates it from libreadline (reimplements the 
functionality, just stubs it out, whatever), they would then only be 
bound by the terms of the BSD license.

> Otherwise it would be to easy to circumvent it, just get a
> GPL program, add a comment, call it something else
> and re-release it as BSD.
> 
>  From the GPL FAQ:
> 
> Q: If a library is released under the GPL (not the LGPL),
> does that mean that any program which uses it has to be under the GPL?
> A: Yes, because the program as it is actually run includes the library.

Well, that doesn't seem right to me.  But since dual licensing is common 
and allowed under the GPL, putting your code under the BSD license is 
equivalent to dual licensing.  (Especially since anyone *can* make 
modifications to a piece of BSD, and release it under the GPL.)

The GPL definitely does not require any transfer of copyright, so you 
can look at it a bunch of different ways, but in the end the effect is 
the same.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 11:13:28 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:13:28 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <1gl6dqy.17aec2n1uecu0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6dqy.17aec2n1uecu0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4162BA18.3040708@cloudthunder.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

>Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Had you read the tutorial, you would discover the answers to all of
>>these questions, but I'll answer them anyways.
>>    
>>
>
>I don't think the tutorial answers all these questions, by a long shot;
>this looks to me like a school assignment intended to force a student to
>spend at least 2-3 days looking for the many answers (it also looks like
>the questions are generic, using terminology that's not appropriate to a
>specific language, Python in particular -- this reinforces the
>impression that this is a school assignment, rather than specific
>interest in Python in particular on Mr Blackwood's part).
>
>  
>
No, the tutorial does not and no, this is not a *school* assignment.  
Grief, like I said, I haven't been in school since 1976.  Plus, how many 
schools (I assume you mean like a university or something) teach Python?

>Fortunately, Josiah, some of your answers are in good part debatable,
>arguable, or imprecise enough that, if Mr Blackwood simply copies all of
>them, while he will (arguably undeservedly... unless getting somebody
>else to do your homework is a skill deserving recognition, today...;-)
>get a passing grade, it should not be a _good_ grade, at least.  If he
>cares about his GPA he'll still have to do research to check up each of
>the answers you have supplied!-)
>
>  
>
My GPA was 3.7x (where the x is some number I don't remember) and has 
long been ironed in, immutable.

>>Next time, read the damn documentation.
>>    
>>
>
>Why should he, if he can shirk the work and find others willing to do it
>on his behalf?-)
>
>
>Alex
>  
>
I didn't see anything in the docs on how to use modules as variables, 
passing and producing them to and from functions.


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 10:07:48 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:07:48 -0700
Subject: Compiled Byte code
In-Reply-To: <1097675350.5192.206374341@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1097675350.5192.206374341@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1097676468.12092.138.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 19:19 +0530, Soumitri wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is there a dependency of version or platform for running a snippet of
> python compiled code? I have a .pyc (possibly created on a *nix box)
> that was created off ver 1.5.2 and returns a "Bad Magic Number in .pyc
> file" error when i run a box with XP and Python 2.3.

Incidentally, if the reason you're running into this issue is because
you've somehow lost the original .py file and have only the .pyc file,
you can use decompyle to get a pretty good restoration of the original
source.  I don't think decompyle is available anymore (except as a paid
service), but you should be able to find an old copy in someone's
archive somewhere (and it should work well on 1.5.2 .pyc files).

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  3 18:35:02 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 00:35:02 +0200
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<1gl2s8a.1imgbyqcxntogN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3b59a80.0410031332.4493bdef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gl3vc2.2k04q41tytz9aN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

zipher <zondervanz at gmail.com> wrote:

> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message
news:<1gl2s8a.1imgbyqcxntogN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> > > I want to be able to create a class at runtime by calling some
> > 
> > All classes are created at runtime, normally by executing (at runtime:
> > there is no other 'time'...;-) a 'class' statement.
> 
> Yes, I should have put that in quotes.  What I meant to convey was
> that I want to be able to create a class 'on the fly' without having
> to define it first.

That's exactly what a class statement does: it creates a class on the
fly.  There is no concept of "having to define it first" in Python; you
may be thinking of other and very different languages.

> > > Ideally, I'd be able to do something like:
> > > 
> > > >>> Bag = Metadict(filter=int) #Metadict returns a new class named
> > > 'Bag'
> > 
> > The normal Python syntax for that purpose might rather be:
> > 
> > class Bag:
> >     __metaclass__ = Metadict
> >     filter = int
> > 
> > and for that use, Medadict would be rather simple to write... but
> > your stated purpose (to this point) is even better accomplished by:
> > 
> > class Bag(dict):
> >     filter = int    
> 
> Yes, your suggestions were my second, and first implemenations
> respectively.  However, both require defining a class by the 'user',
> so to speak, as opposed to letting the user simply call a 'function'
> that returns the customized class with the filter class attribute
> already set.

All they require is using the statement that is normally used to create
classes, namely 'class', rather than a statement which is rarely used,
and less powerful and convenient, for the same purpose, namely an
assignment statement.  The "filter attribute already set" issue appears
to me to be a red herring: why should it make any difference for the
user if the code string
    filter=int
appears within parentheses (in the call to Metadict that you want) or
without them (in the 'class' statement that appears to me to be the one
obvious way to accomplish the identical purpose)?


> Another reason it would be helpful to be able to wrap this in an
> expression like "Metadict(filter=int)" is because I can then use this
> as a parameter passed to other parts of the application.  (Although,
> as you suggested, I'd have to pass the name as well.)

Yep, if you want to supply a name you have to code it SOMEwhere, and why
shouldn't one code it in the normal way, right after the 'class'
keyword?


> For example, in keeping with the aforementioned example, consider
> creating a basic integer-weighted Graph class starting with the
> following:
> 
> #A Graph is a dict whose values are Vertex.
> #A Vertex is a dict whose values are int.
> >>> Graph = Metadict(name='Graph', filter=Metadict(name='Vertex',
> filter=int))

versus:

class Graph(filtered_dict):
    class Vertex(filtered_dict):
        filter = int
    filter = Vertex

all the rest that you write in the following:

> >>> g = Graph()
> # create outgoing links on graph vertex 1 to 3,4,5:
> >>> g[1] = {3: 1, 4: 2.0, 5: '3'}
> #this raw dict above will be converted to Vertex because 
> # of the Graph.filter function and assigned to g[1]
> #Vertex.filter automatically coerced dict values to ints:
> >>> g[1]              
> Vertex({3: 1, 4: 2, 5: 3})

...just happens the same way, it makes no difference that you've used
the normal and usual way (the class statement) rather than the strange
way you want to define classes Graph and Vertex.


> But perhaps a simpler way to illustrate my intent is to just imagine a
> series of dictionary classes which restrict all their values to a
> certain type (through the filter function) before insertion into the
> dictionary.  Dictionaries of ints, lists, and strings along with
> custom filters that, say, validate the values for correct spelling, or
> whatever.
> 
> Now you ("I" ;^) don't want to require the user to create a new class
> for every possible filtered dict variety.

I could care less.  You asked for some way to do exactly this: have the
user create a new class object for every filtered dict variety the user
needs.  I'm not getting into whether this is a good or bad idea.  I'm
just saying: the normal way to have the user create new class objects is
by having the user execute 'class' statements; I see no advantage to
your preference of having the user execute function calls instead.

>  And, yes, you could avoid
> this by just subclassing dict and passing the filter function to
> __init__ and setting it as an instance attribute, but then you have an
> extra attribute stored for every instance of your filtered dictionary
> and the (albeit) small cost of assigning this attribute for every
> instance created.  (Consider again the Graph example, where there are
> going to be many instances of the Vertex class within the Graph and
> you don't want a unique filter function for each Vertex instance
> within the Graph.)

As I said, I'm not examining _at all_ the issue of making new classes
for each value of filter, vs storing such values in instances instead,
etc.  _ALL_ I'm addressing is: if you want to make new classes, the
normal way is the 'class' statement, rather than a function call, and I
don't see why you insist on the class object creation having to happen
via a function call instead.
 
> This would seem like an ideal application for a metaclass (in the
> abstract sense, not necessarily in the way Python implements the
> concept):  I want something that will create and return a specialized
> class based on the parameters I pass to it.

You have it: it's the 'class' statement.  The only metaclass in play is
'type' (the normal metaclass of all new-style classes), of course.

Still, having hopefully communicated that your syntax preference for
function calls rather than perfectly good 'class' statements is really
very troublesome to me, and that I believe your software will be much
better if you let the user use 'class' statements to create classes
unless you have strong reasons to do otherwise (and I really don't see
what reason you have in this case), here's a couple of alternatives:

def but_WHY_ever(name, filter):
    class anon(filtered_dict): filter=filter
    anon.__name__ = name
    return anon

or

def I_really_dont_see_WHY(name, filter):
    return type(name, (filtered_dict,), dict(filter=filter))

so, now the following three constructs have become equivalent:

class Graph(filtered_dict): filter=int

Graph = but_WHY_ever('Graph', filter=int)

Graph = I_really_dont_see_WHY('Graph', filter=int)

to me, the first one seems by far the best.  But if you want to confuse
the issues by using the others, go right ahead: never be it said that
Python doesn't offer you enough rope to shoot yourself in the foot!-)


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 02:24:29 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 08:24:29 +0200
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<EPmdnagKPrUPhtPcRVn-iQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.3529.1095642828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gkgxts.1fq0rwq10mycqiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41513aac$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gkih9r.pfgqukvpt1rcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<37tjl09an200u6tejkrtklc8ib86uk7rm1@4ax.com>
	<7E_6d.33917$35.1643590@news4.tin.it>
	<Cj08d.164190$MQ5.50781@attbi_s52>
Message-ID: <1gl4haj.15lm6eufbcchqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Ann <Anna at nospam.invalid> wrote:

> > Anna (pedants-r-us) Martelli
> 
> Anna,
> Just wondering, which one are you:
> ped?ant (p?d'nt) noun
> 1. One who pays undue attention to book learning and formal rules.
> 2. One who exhibits one's learning or scholarship ostentatiously.
> 3. Obsolete. A schoolmaster.

I think Merriam-Webster for once captures a nuance better than American
Heritage (with definition 2c, "a formalist or precisionist in
teaching").  The "undue" connotation, while popular, is not universal.
More interestingly, one might infer a desire to recapture for positive
self-identification a word that has acquired negative connotations in
popular use.  Perhaps the best-known such fight currently going on is
for the word "hacker", but, after all, such _is_ the history of quite a
few other words... consider "gothic" and "baroque"...


Alex


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 24 18:58:06 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:58:06 -0400
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <slrncnntlt.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
	<QPmdndr7xOOG-efcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<slrncnntlt.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <KtGdnQJKpLvjruHcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>

Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:01:00 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>That's not necessary in almost all cases.  Windows happily(*)
>>accepts forward slashes in all system calls.  The only place
>>it does not is in the *shell* (aka command.com and cmd.exe).
> 
> IIRC, forward slashes have been acceptable since way back in early MS-DOS --
> although someone somewhere on Usenet suggested that Microsoft have never
> commited to keeping it that way.

I know that there was an un(der)documented control somewhere that
allowed one to change even DOS to accept hyphens in place of
forward slashes as the "switch" indicator for command line options,
but this is the first time I've heard it suggested that even
the DOS "APIs" (I use the term loosely... the interrupt routines
barely qualify for that title :-) ) would allow forward slashes
as the Windows APIs (always?) have.

Does anyone have a reference for that?

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 25 16:58:48 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:58:48 -0400
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <m3k6tevb9p.fsf@g2ctech.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<m31xfmwqwb.fsf@g2ctech.com>	<HICdnSp-CJXCzuDcRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
	<m3k6tevb9p.fsf@g2ctech.com>
Message-ID: <rtKdnRB5NOSV9ODcRVn-ug@powergate.ca>

Jorge Godoy wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>>Are you taking my question out of context?  I really doubt
>>Brazilian law says that if I provide access to the source
> 
> It says you must provide some kind of guarantee and a certain level of
> support, no matter if the source is or isn't included. 

I really think it says that about the *product*, not its
source code.  The source code is not being provided as
part of the sale, it is being made available separately.

It's not even necessary that it be possible to use that
source to rebuild the product without purchasing other
pieces of software, such as commercial compilers.

Grant was talking about the cost of supporting the
*source code* when its required that it be made available
because of GPL-type license terms, and I really would be
very surprised if Brazilian law had anything to say about
that.

I could be wrong.  You're right about the rocks though:
sorry about that. :-)

-Peter


From uche at ogbuji.net  Sat Oct 23 14:21:59 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 11:21:59 -0700
Subject: Processing XML files in CJK encodings
References: <6ea3a4e5.0410211339.2395fa29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0410231021.7a77ff75@posting.google.com>

gshibaya at gmail.com (gs) wrote in message news:<6ea3a4e5.0410211339.2395fa29 at posting.google.com>...
> Python gurus,
> 
> I need to parse XML files in CJK encodings like GB2312 and Ja in UTF-8.
> I was using xml.dom.minidom first. It works with Ja in UTF-8, but doesn't
> work with GB2312. An article says,
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2003-December/010034.html
> 
> Then I tried xml.parsers.xmlproc. It works fine with GB2312, but now it
> doesn't work with Ja in UTF-8. Another article says,
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2003-September/009802.html
> 
> Is there any way to parse both of them correctly?

You say "doesn't work".  Can you be more specific?

-- 
Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
A hands-on introduction to ISO Schematron -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-xschematron-i.html
Schematron abstract patterns -
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stron.html
Wrestling HTML (using Python) -
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html
Enterprise data goes high fashion -
http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=10061
Principles of XML design: Considering container elements -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-contain.html
Hacking XML Hacks - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think26.html
A survey of XML standards -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stand4/


From devrim.erdem at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 16:55:25 2004
From: devrim.erdem at gmail.com (devrim.erdem at gmail.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 13:55:25 -0700
Subject: Threads in embedded interpreter doesn't run
Message-ID: <ba9d8463.0410191255.5bb8bd7f@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I am trying to implement threads in my embedded interpreter.

The host application is a C++ app which has a built-in python
interpreter. After initialization of the app just before it starts an
endless while loop ( which does  OpenGL rendering ) the thread is
created and started. Like this :

class TmpThread( threading.Thread ):
	def __init__( self ):
		threading.Thread.__init__( self )
		print "%s is constructed." % self
	def run(self):		
		while( 1 ):
			print "this is tmpthread"
			time.sleep( 1 )

tmp = TmpThread()
tmp.start()

The problem is that the thread prints its message a couple of times
and then stops. During the main loop of my program, the python thread
doesn't run. After termination of the loop, the thread starts printing
the message.

Could anyone give me some hints to understand why the thread can not
execute during my application loop.

Thanks in advance,
Devrim.


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Oct 12 13:55:24 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:55:24 +0200
Subject: file comparisons
In-Reply-To: <416c19b6$0$36860$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <df19e346.0410120805.608ada7e@posting.google.com>
	<416c19b6$0$36860$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <416c1a8d$0$36860$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
[a lot of stuff]

Argh. Just saw Rick's reply; I didn't know about the
filecmp module.... :-|   So this makes it even simpler :)

--Irmen


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 15:49:02 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:49:02 +0100
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
In-Reply-To: <7x1xga495k.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
	<7x1xga495k.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <U4h9d.32987$Z14.12264@news.indigo.ie>

[Fuzzyman <fuzzyman at gmail.com>]
>>Assuming that each visitor will have a unique IP address is probably
>>not 100% accurate but will have a reasonably low margin of error !! 

[Paul Rubin]
> Nah, you can't rely on that at all.  For example, all N zillion AOL
> users come through only a few hundred different IP addresses.  And
> SOMETIMES you get those proxy headers other people have mentioned, but
> not all that often.

That's probably the biggest problem, but I would also add the following 
other problems which will further widen the error margin:-

1. Modem and DSL users most often get dynamically allocated addresses, 
which means that two entirely different users can get the same address 
within seconds of each other: one disconnects, the other reconnects to 
the same endpoint. If they both visit your web site, and you're tracking 
only IPs, then you'll think they're both the same user. If your content 
raises a lot of interest in a specific phone-dial-code area, for 
example, this could seriously skew your data.

2. With corporate networks, local IP addresses (i.e. the ones you see in 
X-FORWARDED-FOR headers, etc) tend to be handed out by DHCP-style 
dynamic allocation. Which means that the head-of-IT's address this week 
could be the receptionist's address next week.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From pcslen at comcast.net  Thu Oct  7 10:02:52 2004
From: pcslen at comcast.net (Len Sumnler)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:02:52 GMT
Subject: 2 Newbie questions.
In-Reply-To: <ck2org$vlc$1@ork.noris.net>
References: <Tl49d.425544$8_6.322047@attbi_s04> <ck2org$vlc$1@ork.noris.net>
Message-ID: <g0c9d.205322$D%.43062@attbi_s51>

Wolfram Kraus wrote:
> Len Sumnler wrote:
> 
>> Hi All
>>
>> I am running SuSe Linux ver. 9.0. I have written the famous "Hello 
>> World" program and want to run it as an executable.  I have searched
>> the net and performed chmod +x mypython.py and added as the first
>> line of my program #!/usr/bin/env python.  When I try to run the
>> program as follows $ mypython.py I get the error message of, "bash:
>> mypython.py: command not found".  What am i doing wrong.
> 
> Your current directory is not in your PATH environment variable, so you
> have to call it with ./mypython.py or set your PATH. BTW your prompt 
> looks like you are user "root", don't do that, login as a normal user!
> 
>> Second, I am looking for a good online tutorial for some one who
>> knows other programming languages assembler, cobol, etc any
>> suggestions.
> 
> http://www.python.org/topics/learn/prog.html
> 
>> Thanks Len Sumnler, Jr
> 
> 
> HTH,
> Wolfram
Hello Wolfram

Don't worry I'm not running as root. Tried the ./mypython.py and it 
worked.  Just thought there might ba a way to execute without using the 
"./" not a problem at this time just learning and exploring my options.

Thanks
Len Sumnler


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sun Oct 24 22:42:00 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:42:00 -0700
Subject: Fedora 1 and Eric3
In-Reply-To: <qKPed.292$rs5.51451@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <cldm39$qo7$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <clfgq2$5hs$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<qKPed.292$rs5.51451@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <1098672120.5693.67.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 11:19 -0400, Markus Wankus wrote:
> Bats wrote:
> 
> > Bats had this to say:
> > 
> > 
> >>Has anyone here managed to install Eric (Python GUI) on Fedora Core 1?
> >>I have had no end of sh*t from qscintilla right on up. It seems I have to
> >>jump through an endless series of hoops in a certain order to get to the
> >>end.
> >>
> >>Any step-by-step kinda help?
> >>
> >>*:*
> > 
> > Ah well.... no feedback.
> 
> Well.. I can give you feedback but it is kind of useless.  I have found 
> that no matter what distro I used - Fedora 1 or otherwise - getting that 
> program to work (along with all of its seemingly circular dependencies) 
> was a very unpleasant experience and one I never succeeded at.  There is 
> something to be said for the simplicity of Windows installers...
> 
> All I can say is keep trying, and Google this newsgroup.  This has come 
> up here before - you are not alone...

Download and install the appropriate rpms for these two packages:

http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3?stat=3&search=qscintilla&srodzaj=3
http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3?stat=3&search=PyQt-qscintilla&srodzaj=3

You'll also need sip and qt, but these are most likely already
installed.  If not, Googling for, say 'sip rpm' will be left as an
excercise ;)

python install.py (as root)

Total time: about 5 minutes

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 30 09:03:21 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:03:21 -0400
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5694.1099105624.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>	<mailman.5640.1099009520.5135.python-list@python.org>	<5dr852-obu.ln1@lairds.us>
	<mailman.5694.1099105624.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <w4mdnc_RG8CEDB7cRVn-gA@powergate.ca>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> Cameron Laird wrote:
>> Like many propositions in this thread, this one bears repetition
>> and examination.  Even people in authority reiterate that "Java
>> is compiled, while Python is interpreted."
> 
> So now Java is compiled eh?  I suppose that is more accurate but I 
> prefer to say that Java is bytecode compilable whereas Python is 
> bytecode interpreted.  So with a broad stroke, I would say I am inline 
> with those in "authority", though I tend to be more specific.

Not that it's directly relevant to this thread, but what value
does your greater specificity provide in the case of a CPU
that directly implements the Java "bytecode" as its native
instruction set, Richard?

Java has a much lower level bytecode than Python's, but
even using the term "bytecode compilable" versus "bytecode
interpreted" could be considered misleading.  If you study
the mechanisms involved in going from source to execution
in each language, they are very very similar, to the point
that saying one is "compilable" while the other is "interpreted"
is basically inaccurate.  *Both* are compiled to bytecode,
both have a runtime interpreter which executes that bytecode,
but so far only Java has true compilers that can skip the
bytecode step (or perhaps they use it as the input, I've
never bothered to learn) and generate native machine code,
which is effectively what the JIT compilers do for Java
(and what Psyco does for Python, albeit in a much more
limited fashion).

-Peter


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 17:27:48 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:27:48 -0300
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <20041004121339.ECAF.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm> <20041004121339.ECAF.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <864d3709041004142716d3d1be@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:19:16 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Not sure I understand you here.  I want to implement messages like in
> > ObjC where if you send a msg to an object and that object does know what
> > to do with it, it can send the obj automatically to another object which
> > might know what to do with it.
> >
> > Anyhow, there are other reasons as well.
> 
> What are called "messages" in ObjC, are generally known as "instance
> methods" in Python.
> 
> I would imagine in ObjC you would do something like the following:
> 
> object.send('operation', arg1, arg2, arg3,...)
> send(object, 'operation', arg1, arg2, arg3,...)
> 
> In Python, that becomes:
> 
> object.operation(arg1, arg2, arg3,...)
> 
> "Messages" in ObjC are really just a metaphor, one that is shared by
> Smalltalk, but not many other object-oriented languages.

There are many things that can be done to mimic it. Instance methods
in Python are pretty powerful -- they can be handled like normal
objects, copied, passed as parameters, and even bound to other classe.
You can also use descriptors in Python to do something similar. More
details would be needed though for better discussion.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 09:16:48 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:16:48 -0400
Subject: Outputting to specific sound channels?
In-Reply-To: <%Ac7d.281193$4o.165728@fed1read01>
References: <WDY6d.2397168$6p.406211@news.easynews.com>
	<Uz67d.2746$TY2.563@lakeread04>
	<INmdncoAppBu0sDcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
	<%Ac7d.281193$4o.165728@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <r8ydncd5KopdxcDcRVn-qg@powergate.ca>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Peter L Hansen wrote:
>> Come on, Steve, haven't you ever seen a speaker built to act
>> bidirectionally, so it can be used both as an output or an input?
>> They're very handy in intercom systems and are quite fun to build
>> from scratch, for a beginner like I am. :-)
> 
> Well I realize you know hardly anything about electronics, Peter, but 
> even you have to admit that a speaker makes a much better input 
> transducer than a microphone is likely to make an output transducer, if 
> only because of the lower power-handling capacity.

Steve, Steve, you're like, what 45 or something? and your hearing
is way too far gone to hear the output of a microphone.  The rest
of us, us young 'uns, don't have any such troubles...  :-) :-)

> I was going to add to my folly by chuntering on about electrostatic 
> microphones until I remembered that you can also buy electrostatic 
> speakers.

-he's-probably-going-colour-blind-too-ly y'rs,
  Peter


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Thu Oct 14 15:25:22 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 12:25:22 -0700
Subject: Some notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glm9eg.1yldhpvtdfww2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0410141125.632eae0@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson:

>It turns out that those one-liners are not considered Pythonic.<

I agree, and I don't like them.
But the : becomes useful for that situation. Otherwise it seems less
useful to me.


>If you don't like indentation as scope,<

I like indentation as scope, and I like Python, I think I've never
said otherwise :-)


>In my opinion, the structure, syntax, readability, etc. of programs
written in Mathematica leaves something to be desired.<

I agree again, and the editor is non-standard (on windows).
But I think it's a powerful language, with many built in functions,
well designed, etc.


Alex Martelli:

>I'd like to see tabs forbidden in string literals -- using \t when
you mean tab is more readable, and the one obvious way to do it.<

I agree.

Thank you for all your answers,
a bear hug,
bearophile


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sun Oct 10 18:42:21 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:42:21 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>

Doug Holton wrote:

> share it here since there has been so much interest for similar projects 
> like IronPython.
 >
> http://boo.codehaus.org/
> 
> Boo is a python-like language for .NET or the cross-platform Mono 
> (http://www.go-mono.com/).

"Python-like" means very little. Make it run python code
then you'll see a lot more interest from this group.

Istvan


From lbates at syscononline.com  Thu Oct 28 18:16:02 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:16:02 -0500
Subject: Constructor problem
In-Reply-To: <418169ec$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
References: <418169ec$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <gvSdnZ5TYIED8hzcRVn-hQ@comcast.com>

Nick wrote:
> I'm writing a simple class to represent a deck of cards. Here is the 
> stripped down version. Notice classes Deck and Deck2. Class Deck works, 
> Deck2 does not. My thinking is that it should be more efficient (a la 
> Deck2) to pre-create the list, and then modify it, rather than appending 
> Cards as in Deck.
> 
> # --------------------snip--------------
> class Card:
>     def __init__(self, rank=0, suit=0):
>         self.rank=rank
>         self.suit=suit
> 
>     def __repr__(self):
>         r = "A23456789TJQK"[self.rank]
>         s = "SHCD"[self.suit]
>         return r+s
> 
> 
> class Deck:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.deck = []
>         for r in range(13):
>             for s in range(4):
>                 self.deck.append(Card(r,s))
> 
> class Deck2:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.deck = 52 * [Card()]
>         n = 0
>         for r in range(13):
>             for s in range(4):
>                 self.deck[n].rank = r
>                 self.deck[n].suit = s
>                 n = n + 1
> 
> 
> a = Deck()
> print "A --> ", a.deck
> b = Deck2()
> print "B --> ", b.deck
> # ------------snap---------------------
> 
> Deck A looks right, 52 cards, one of each. Deck B, on the other hand, is 
> 52 of the same card, all rank 12, suit 3.
> 
> What am I missing???
> 
> Thanks!
> Nick.

self.deck = 52 * [Card()]

Problem is with this line.  It doesn't do what you want.

Try this from interpreter prompt:

class card:
     pass

deck=52*[card()]
id(deck[0])
id(deck[1])
...

You will notice that all 52 entries in the list point
to the same instance of the card class.

As far as performance is concerned you are doing what
is commonly called as premature optimization.  I set
up a loop and complete deck creation takes only 0.00015
seconds (that's 0.15 milliseconds) on my machine.  I
wouldn't worry about optimizing this part of the program.

-Larry


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Oct 27 08:08:16 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 15:08:16 +0300
Subject: Example of how to use logging for both screen and file
References: <du7acufgcr9.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.5320.1098454525.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2e37dc1.0410221237.2609dcad@posting.google.com>
	<2e37dc1.0410230702.38bb4912@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5550.1098868906.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7mzy8z7m7.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Steve" == Steve  <lonetwin at gmail.com> writes:

    Steve> flog = logging.getLogger("mylog")
    Steve> slog = logging.getLogger("mylog.slog")

I'm a logging newbie, but - 

You shouldn't "get" loggers according to the "log name", but rather
the application area name. I.e.

log = logging.getLogger("myApp")

And then add different handlers to the same log object. I.e. don't
create several loggers, create several handlers for the same Logger
object, as I did in the initial example of this thread (just
substitute StreamHandler w/ sysloghandler).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 05:23:36 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:23:36 +0200
Subject: Ubuntu Linux loves Python: What is pysqlite?
References: <cjmc42$420$1@wheel2.two14.net>
	<l79qn0hstavonfavcmbfcp2o8ffahv81n6@4ax.com>
	<4182047c.929435750@news.compuserve.de>
Message-ID: <1gmf0vs.fnqayo1dxvpq7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Konrad Koller <koko9991 at compuserve.de> wrote:
   ...
> >work with code I've made on Windows using pysqlite 1.0. 
> >Download and install it now!!! ( And make an updated ubuntu-package of
> >pysqlite while you're at it ;-) )
> 
> Sorry, but I do not know what pysqlite is.

An embedded SQL RDBMS.  <http://freshmeat.net/projects/pysqlite/>.


Alex


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 04:27:55 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 01:27:55 -0700
Subject: Artifical Life - a job for someone else
References: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>
	<87acuskmae.fsf@localhost.localdomain.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410130027.187c072f@posting.google.com>

Nick Vargish <nav+posts at bandersnatch.org> wrote in message news:<87acuskmae.fsf at localhost.localdomain.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>...
> fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) writes:
> 
> > I really miss a decent Cellular Automota program and I was really
> > surprised that there weren't lot's of implementations for python.
> 
> One of the samples in the PythonCard distribution is an implementation
> of the classic Conway "Life".
> 
> Nick

Thanks to you and Eric - looks like a couple of avenues I haven't discovered.

Many Thanks

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From z.sam-No-Spam- at libero.it  Thu Oct 28 12:18:03 2004
From: z.sam-No-Spam- at libero.it (Sam)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:18:03 +0200
Subject: CLEAR INPUT BUFFER
References: <clqffa$i2r$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
	<A5GdnQGapZBQjhzcRVn-og@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <clr64d$gsf$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>


"Istvan Albert" <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote in message
news:A5GdnQGapZBQjhzcRVn-og at giganews.com...
> In general you can't flush the standard input,
> it is one of those undefined behaviors in C.
>
> To read the input until an end-of-file is reached
> use read() instead of readline().
>

Now I try.
Thanks.

Bye




From http  Tue Oct 12 15:07:40 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 12:07:40 -0700
Subject: Alternatives for pickle?
References: <slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <7xr7o3rc03.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> writes:
> So how do you serialize data in python, when you want
> a somewhat secure mechanisme. Preferably where a user
> can make a puzzle file by hand in a text editor.

There are a lot of different serialization formats in the Python
library but the general ones are not secure and the secure ones are
not general.  You may have to concoct an ad-hoc format just for your
puzzles.


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 07:46:28 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:46:28 +0100
Subject: epydoc w/ ReST (was: Re: In Praise of Docutils)
References: <69k0m0tl5muu2ro99stdcbdn724eqarj18@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4226.1096835674.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ec25m0dcsm696qdnihar320epd9514smjh@4ax.com>

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 16:29:06 -0400, Stephen Waterbury
<golux at comcast.net> wrote:

>Fuzzyman wrote:
>
>> I've just got to see if epydoc can be tweaked to use ResT as it's
>> docstring markup and I'll be well happy :-)
>
>The "tweaking" required is well documented:
>http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/othermarkup.html

Thanks



From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Oct  7 16:28:02 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:28:02 -0700
Subject: Connecting to SQL-Server
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F48@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Greg Lindstrom wrote:
> I'm running Python 2.3 on a Windows XP box and am trying to 
> get connected to
> an MS SQL-Server.  I have found (seemingly) conflicting 
> methods to connect
> using the odbc module in the win32-all extensions.  I have 
> seen both of the
> following:
> 
> db = odbc.odbc('DSN/UID/PASSWORD)
> and
> db=odbc.odbc('DSN=dsn;UID=uid;PWD=password)
> 
> I can connect when I use my computer, but when I transfer the 
> code to a
> production box I am greeted with an error that the login is 
> not associated
> with a trusted connection.  So which, if either, of the above 
> methods should
> I use and what is the error about a trusted connection trying 
> to tell me?

I use "DSN=RE7_1;UID=mcontrol;PWD=*****;DSN=RE7_1;" Yes, the DSN is
listed twice. Don't ask me why this works; it just does. ;) I've found
that somehow, the first k/v pair gets discarded from these connection
strings.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From deets.nospaaam at web.de  Fri Oct 22 14:48:29 2004
From: deets.nospaaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:48:29 +0200
Subject: Connecting to SQL Server from UNIX
References: <mailman.5334.1098470750.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2tt318F241rnlU1@uni-berlin.de>

yuba at conwaycorp.net wrote:

> 
> Hello-
> 
> Is it possible for me to connect to a MS SQL-Server from a UNIX box via
> Python
> (2.3)?  I'm assuming I would need a driver, but I looked on microsoft.com
> and
> could not find anything.  Anyone out there ever try to do this?

No surprise - microsoft wont do that for you...


What you need is unix-odbc,  the freedts-driver and pyodbc - google for
them, and use the latest versions. 

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From http  Fri Oct  1 23:34:34 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 01 Oct 2004 20:34:34 -0700
Subject: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow
	after an exception is raised)
References: <4b39d922.0410011152.31fb1dae@posting.google.com>
	<4edc17eb.0410011905.72494b5d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xmzz53i9h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato) writes:
> Nevertheless, it is possible that if we had resumable exceptions we 
> could use them as a control flow structure in non-exceptional situations.
> One could speculate about the idea ...

Sure.  You could raise a resumable exception whose handler runs some
code before resuming after the exception.  The handling code could do
some stuff that raises its own resumable exception.  Now you have two
resumable exceptions pending, and it would be cool if you could resume
the first one before resuming the second.  In fact what you'd really
like is a "resumption" object created by raising the exception, that
you can pass control to at any time, sort of like yielding from a
generator.  Maybe you're getting deja vu now, since this is basically
what Stackless Python continuations were.  They give you a simple way
to implement coroutines and just about anything else you could want.


From michaels at rd.bbc.co.uk  Wed Oct 27 11:07:11 2004
From: michaels at rd.bbc.co.uk (Michael Sparks)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:07:11 +0100
Subject: High volume websites using Python web server software?
References: <417ee2ab$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <clof9e$m19$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>

Irmen de Jong wrote:

> Hi,
> Things like Twisted, medusa, etc.... that claim to be able
> to support hundreds of concurrent connections because of the
> async I/O framework they're based on....
> can someone give a few examples of some web sites actually
> using those Python frameworks?

What do you define as high volume? Different people have different
expectations here. I would say for example that high volume starts at
around 10-20 million requests per day, but even that is an order of
magnitude too low to *really* be viewed as high volume, _unless_ you're
only counting valid page impressions and not all web objects served.

That said at that level you're generally dealing with a server farm,
and no matter how big you think *your* site is, there's (almost) always
someone bigger *especially* IF you factor in web proxy systems as being
web server software as well.

Also do you mean python application systems on top of web servers or
python as the web server - sounds like the latter? (As far as I'm aware
the BBC don't use python in either area, but I could be wrong, but these
questions sprang to mind reading the responses you've had from others).

Regards,


Michael.
-- 
Michael.Sparks at rd.bbc.co.uk    
British Broadcasting Corporation, Research and Development
Kingswood Warren, Surrey KT20 6NP

This message (and any attachments) may contain personal views
which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.




From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Oct  6 03:16:55 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:16:55 +0200
Subject: Database Connectivity
In-Reply-To: <rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20041006071655.GA21645@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 04:48:40AM +0000, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> [somebody wants to base a Python application on JET]
>
> Other options: If one doesn't need full capabilities (just data tables and
> selects), MySQL... The former SAP-DB, now packaged as "MaxDB by MySQL"... An
> off-shoot of Interbase 6, Firebird.

Or just PySQLite, then you won't need to install any servers, and have an
almost equally powerful SQL engine. Well, more powerful than MySQL IMO, but
that's not hard :-P

-- Gerhard


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Oct 13 14:30:22 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:30:22 -0400
Subject: passing threading.Thread() and function object
In-Reply-To: <ckjr96$d14$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <ckjr96$d14$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <416D743E.50406@bellsouth.net>

Christopher J. Bottaro wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I'm new to Python programming, so please excuse me.
>
>thread = threading.Thread(self.somefunc())
>thread.start()
>print "Thread started"
>
>def somefunc(self):
>        while (1)
>                print "In thread"
>
>
>"Thread started" never gets printed, but "In thread" gets printed
>repeatedly.  What is going on?  It seems like thread.start() is blocking
>and effectively running self.somefunc() as a normal function.
>
>Thanks for the help.
>
>  
>
Your code is evaluating self.somefunc(), which is an infinite loop.  The 
thread is actually never starting.  You may want to do something more 
like this:



<untested code>

import threading

class DoSomething(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
    def run(self):
        while 1:
            print "In thread"

if __name__ == "__main__":
    ds = DoSomething()
    ds.start()
    print "Thread started"

</untested code>



Jeremy Jones


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 01:39:39 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:39:39 -0600
Subject: Suggestions for Python workshop
References: <f2d68a30.0410061223.7f40fc9a@posting.google.com>
	<ck1lhc$qi9$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <hgse32-jla.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <ck2kq2$5bd$1@sea.gmane.org>

Cameron Laird wrote:

> I have strong feelings on this subject, only a fraction of which
> I'll be able to articulate this week.
> 
> First, follow everything Fernando says; he's doing great work.

Thanks :) (blushes)

> Second, I see a variety of approaches to Python-for-scientists,
> and I hope you're able to end up with a Pythonic one.  There's
> low-level how-to-ing:  "this is an implementation of a
> Rayleigh-Ritz algorithm for PDE solution; you can use this in
> hydrodynamics to ..."  What *really* gets interesting, though,
> are comparing Python to other vehicles--Matlab, C++, Fortran--
> and, if you're really good, opening the audience's eyes to the
> potential of a language which facilitates comprehension, collabor-
> ation, and experimentation.  Most scientific listeners won't
> understand abstraction as it applies to software.  Python-for-
> scientists represents a great opportunity.

Well, that's exactly the credo I've been trying to preach to all who are willing
to listen over the last couple of years.  I think I've made progress, at least
by converting some people around me to these tools.  But I'm quite interested
in your opinion on the matter.

<blatant plug ahead>

If anyone from the Colorado Front Range area is interested on this subject, I'm
scheduled to give the colloquium at the Mathematics and computer science
department of the Colorado School of Mines in Golden, on Friday Nov. 19th (3pm)
on this very topic.  I hope to do justice to python's qualities for scientific
work, but ideas from the c.l.py community are very welcome (I haven't written
the talk yet, so there's time to put it in).

Cheers,

f







From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Tue Oct 26 15:16:31 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:16:31 +0200
Subject: speed up mp3
Message-ID: <417ea290$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Dear Pythoneers,

I have a blind friend who listens a lot to audio books. A lot of the
material available today is in mp3 format.
For ages i have been looking for a mp3-player with speed control and haven't
found any.
Next option: write one yourself.
And I have ;-). with the PyMedia module.
It is an only sleightly adjusted version of one of the examples.

Now the Question:
Is it possible to re-Encode mp3 files with this faster speed as to make them
portable to e.g. Pocket PC (without python interpreter) or standard MP3
player (hardware)?

The files have to play at about 1.5 times the normal speed.

I tried it with PyMedia but I only get errors. Any help would be
appreciated.

#=============CODE==================
#! /bin/env python

import sys,os

def aplayer( name, codec='mp3', card=0, rate=1 ):
  import pymedia.audio.acodec as acodec
  import pymedia.audio.sound as sound
  import time
  try:  cod=os.path.splitext(name)[ 1 ].lower()[1:]
  except: cod=''
  if cod: codec = cod
  dec= acodec.Decoder( codec )
  snds= sound.getODevices()
  if card not in range( len( snds ) ):
    raise 'Cannot play sound to non existent device %d out of %d' % ( card+
1, len( snds ) )
  f= open( name, 'rb' )
  snd= None
  s= f.read( 50000 )
  while len( s ):
    r= dec.decode( s )
    if snd== None:
      print '-'*75
      print 'Playing: %s' % os.path.basename(name)
      print 'Opening sound with %d channels -> %s' % ( r.channels, snds[
card ][ 'name' ] )
      print 'Orig sample rate: %s' % r.sample_rate
      if rate<0: sr=r.sample_rate/abs(rate)
      else: sr=r.sample_rate*rate
      sr = int(sr)
      print 'Play sample rate: %s' % sr
      snd= sound.Output( sr, r.channels, sound.AFMT_S16_LE, card )
    if r:
      snd.play( r.data )

    s= f.read( 512 )

  while snd.isPlaying():
    time.sleep( .05 )

# --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
# Play any compressed audio file
# http://pymedia.org/
if len( sys.argv )< 2 or len( sys.argv )> 3:
  print "Usage: aplayer <filename> [ rate ]"
else:
  i= 0
  if len( sys.argv )== 3:
    i= eval(sys.argv[ 2 ])
  else: i=1
  aplayer( sys.argv[ 1 ], rate=i )
#==================END CODE==============




From see at below.invalid  Thu Oct  7 04:44:38 2004
From: see at below.invalid (Paul Foley)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 21:44:38 +1300
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <mailman.4472.1097125891.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m24ql6q5mx.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:11:41 -0800, Eric Pederson wrote:

> Andr? N?ss wrote:
>> 
>> One thing I liked about Lisp was the ability to use the question mark
>> (and the exclamation mark) in function names. I found this
>> particularily useful when checking boolean properties of a object like
>> for example myObj.isContextSet. It just feels so much more natural to
>> write myObj.contextSet?
>> 
>> I also found it neat that destructive operations were clearly marked
>> with !.

> I guess any programmer who likes LISP has an extra gear in their gear box (perhaps), but I think non-alphanumeric symbols in names reduce the readability.  We live in a world of text where words have letters in them, and punctuation means something different.  When I see punctuation my brain goes "STOP.  ABSORB SOME LOGIC BEFORE PROCEEDING."

Yes, so do I.  I /hate/ that convention (of *SCHEME*, not Lisp, note!)

[Not to mention that it's not pronounceable]

-- 
Malum est consilium quod mutari non potest             -- Publilius Syrus

(setq reply-to
  (concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(#\@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))


From spam at nospam.org  Thu Oct  7 15:20:43 2004
From: spam at nospam.org (Erik Johnson)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:20:43 -0600
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
	<41648bae$1@nntp.zianet.com><41656DA0.5030509@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.4519.1097171627.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416595b6$1@nntp.zianet.com>


"Steven Bethard" <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.4519.1097171627.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Steve Holden <steve <at> holdenweb.com> writes:
> >
> > Of course that means that
> >
> > (foo_d is None) or {}
> >
> > works, giving you the best of both worlds.
>
> I don't think this does what the OP wants it to:

    Heh.... amazing how tricky things can get in only a few lines, eh?
Actually, I noticed that that wasn't really the same thing. Here's what one
of my constructors looked like from yesterday (essentially the form given by
exarkun):

    #-------------------------------------------------------------------
    def __init__(self, fields=None, tanks=None, pipes=None):
        "Constructor."

        WkSuper.__init__(self, fields)

        if tanks is None: tanks = {}
        self.tanks_d = tanks

        if pipes is None: pipes = {}
        self.pipes_d = pipes

    #-------------------------------------------------------------------

    This sort of a "two and a half liner" is not as beautiful as the
one-line 'or' statement (which I had put in there at first) but after
thinking about it for a while, I decided that it's not a totally
unreasonable thing to pass your own empty dictionary and then expect to have
your object use that and not it's own.  I considered just ignoring that
issue and keeping in the back of my mind that if you passed an empty
dictionary it wasn't going to do what you probably expected, as exarkun
pointed out...

>  One could argue that there is something slightly wrong with both of
these.  Consider:
>
>  d = {}
>  b = Bar(d)
>    d['x'] = 'y'
>
>  One might reasonably expect b.foo_d['x'] to be 'y'.  In the case of the
above, it will not be; a KeyError will be raised instead.


    I eventually decided that ignoring the issue was not in the spirit of
that which I originally launched this post. These are all interesting issues
for a beginner, and I think I have become sharper at Python for having gone
through this. After thinking about this even more carefully today, a couple
of things come to mind:

    1) Might it make sense for Python to have both a mutable and an
immutable version of a dictionary?

    2) In terms of my own design and usage, I think the idea is that I'm
trying to make it convenient to pre-populate an object from a dictionary a
caller already has handy (which is probably me). I think I should probably
be doing a dictionary copy, not assignment. The passed dictionary is an
OBJECT INITIALZER. That is, once you've created the object, that's the place
to keep and manage your data - either through the object's exposed interface
(methods), or by directly setting member data fields. If you later muck
about with the dictionary from which the object was created, it probably
should NOT affect the object. (Granted, Python allows you to arrange to have
it work that way, which is cool, and other authors may have good reason to
do it that way, I think that is NOT the paradigm I want to encourage.)

    So, these are rather subtle issues that were not crystal clear to me
yesterday morning. I thank you all for the helpful and enlightening
discussion. I feel much better than when I thought my interpreter was broken
because all my objects had the same dictionary! :)

-ej




From lights at cix.co.uk  Fri Oct 29 07:43:57 2004
From: lights at cix.co.uk (Matthew Bell)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 04:43:57 -0700
Subject: Directly calling threaded class instance methods and attributes
References: <4d79c4d9.0410280228.53f9a328@posting.google.com>
	<clqlr6$g32$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4d79c4d9.0410290343.76e90507@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message news:<clqlr6$g32$02$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> > My question is simply, can anyone see any issues with calling methods
> > and/or attributes of a threaded class instance like this?  It looks ok
> > to me but, as the docs never seem to mention using threads like this,
> > I'm wondering if I've missed something important.  

> So your code is perfectly legal, and as long as you are aware that having
> more complex operations on objects undergoing can be interrupted at any
> time, maybe leaving data inconsistent _from and applications POV_ - then
> you'll need explicid sync'ing, by locks, queues or whatever...

Diez,

Thanks for your reply.  Basically, then, it seems that there aren't
any special considerations required for directly calling threaded
class instance methods / attributes.  I'll still need to take care
of ensuring that the application's data structures are kept 
internally consistent (which is fair enough - I was expecting to
have to do that anyway) but it looks like I'm not going to cause 
any unusual issues.

If so, that's great - it'll help tidy things up quite nicely in
areas where I've got way too many queues to easily keep track of.

Thanks for your help Diez, and thanks also to everyone else who's 
commented.  It's always an education!

  Matthew.


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Mon Oct 25 20:52:42 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:52:42 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <clk5qk$4lt$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>	<1098746958.22370.116.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<mailman.5466.1098748601.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clk5qk$4lt$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <clk74q$535$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Robert Kern wrote:
> Tim Churches wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 09:29, Cliff Wells wrote:
> 
> 
> [snip]
> 
>>> If this is true, I can't think of any way for a program to run on a
>>> GPL'd system (such as Linux) without becoming GPL'd itself (Unless it
>>> doesn't do any I/O or malloc any memory <wink>). 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes. It seems to be them is some dissonance between these two positions:
>>
>> "It is OK for a closed-source application to allocate memory on a system
>> running the GPLed Linux kernel"
>>
>> and
>>
>> "It is not OK for a GPL-incompatible Python application to import GPLed
>> code into the runtime namespace it is using."
>>
>> I shudder to think what a judge and jury would make of such a
>> distinction. 
> 
> 
> I'm sure they would see the explicit exception made in the GPL:
> 
> """
> However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not 
> include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or 
> binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of 
> the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component 
> itself accompanies the executable.
> """

Excuse me. I am retarded. Please ignore me.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Oct 17 12:56:02 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:56:02 +0200
Subject: Anything like 'inspect.getsourceencoding()'?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5069.1097979276.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5069.1097979276.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4172a417$0$185$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> Is there a convenient way to find the encoding of a source file?  I
> thought maybe this would be in the inspect module, but I didn't see it
> there.  Just as nice would be a way to get the file as a unicode string,
> I suppose.

No. inspect operates on the byte-code/internal representation level, and
at that level, there is no notion of source encoding. The source
encoding information gets lost during compilation (as it is no longer
needed).

Somebody proposed preserving it in __[en]coding__, but that hasn't been
implemented.

Regards,
Martin


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Oct  7 14:57:37 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 14:57:37 -0400
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>> In article <1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
>> Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that CPython doesn't have thread-local storage.
>>>
>>>In 2.4 it does -- see threading.local documentation at
>>><http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-threading.html> (and
>>>even better, the docstring of the new _threading_local module).
>> 
>> IIUC, that's not thread-local storage in the sense that I'm using the
>> term (and which I believe is standard usage).  Values created with
>> thread-local storage module are still allocated on the heap, and it's
>> still possible to use introspection to access thread-local data in
>> another thread.
>
>Is it...?  Maybe I'm missing something...:

If you look at the code for _threading_local, you'll see that it depends
on __getattribute__() to acquire a lock and patch in the current
thread's local state.  IIRC from the various threads about securing
Python, there are ways to break __getattribute__(), but I don't remember
any off-hand (and don't have time to research).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From robby at planetargon.com  Sun Oct 17 17:59:40 2004
From: robby at planetargon.com (Robby Russell)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:59:40 -0700
Subject: Python in HTAs
In-Reply-To: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
References: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1098050380.4604.13.camel@vacant>

On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 14:25 -0700, Marcel van den Dungen wrote:
> Does anybody know how to use Python as the scripting language for HTML
> applications? I tried the following, but I get a script error ('Object
> expected') on the body element.
> 
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>Python controlled HTML application</title>
> <hta:application id="oApplication">
> <script language="python">
> def Onload():
>     alert('hello from python')
>     document.all["idspan"] = 'hello from python'
> </script>
> </head>
> <body onload="Onload();">
> <span id="idspan" ></span>
> </body>
> </html>
> 
> Could not find any example on Google either.
> 
> TIA,
> Marcel

This isn't going to work unless your browser has some special plugin to
allow python scripts to run in it. Google probably turned up nothing as
you might be one of the first people to consider this. ;-)

-Robby

-- 
/***************************************
* Robby Russell | Owner.Developer.Geek
* PLANET ARGON  | www.planetargon.com
* Portland, OR  | robby at planetargon.com
* 503.351.4730  | blog.planetargon.com
* PHP/PostgreSQL Hosting & Development
****************************************/

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From gk_2345 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 15 17:48:16 2004
From: gk_2345 at yahoo.com (George Kinney)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:48:16 -0400
Subject: os.system and flow control
References: <81a41dd.0410140248.612d2ed9@posting.google.com>
	<DNmdnVdU3aNH8vPcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<81a41dd.0410142236.3fb3143b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10n2k37c2ggioe3@corp.supernews.com>


"Lad" <export at hope.cz> wrote in message
news:81a41dd.0410142236.3fb3143b at posting.google.com...
> > I believe the ultimate conclusion was that you should investigate
> > the START command with an option of /WAIT.
> I already asked and you already tried to help but your solution did
> not work. Can you please give me an example how to use START with
> /WAIT option.

os.popen2('start /wait notepad.exe IDPass.txt') ???





From donnal at donnal.net  Mon Oct 18 10:59:15 2004
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:59:15 -0500
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
In-Reply-To: <e253918f.0410161040.3ef42851@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.5015.1097859379.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.10.15.14.48.29.705882@jerf.org>
	<e253918f.0410161040.3ef42851@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cl0lo3$gc6$1@sea.gmane.org>

Michael Loritsch wrote:
 > Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
 > > It mostly depends on the contents of the "do something with
 > > value" that you have peppered throughout. I would pull out
 > > the various "do somethings" into methods, but other then that,
 > > if you need the full flexibility of a dict that can contain
 > > anything and you need to do things with arbitrary combinations,
 > > there is little else to do.
 > > <snip>
 >
 > I agree with Jeremy here that everything depends on what "do
 > something with value" means.

Thanks again for the additional helpful replies. I am still learning how 
to ask (good) questions, and in my original post I was guilty of 
abstracting away too many important details.

First of all, I am/was aware of the potential problem associated with 
using the default "items={}" in the signature of the setup() method. In 
fact, my own code used:

     def setup(self, items):

where items is generated by **kwds somewhere else. Without thinking, 
though, I wrote "items = {}" in my posting merely to indicate that items 
might be an empty dictionary in some cases, which several rightly 
pointed out could lead to "strange default value behavior".

More importantly, I left out a couple of crucial features of the setup() 
method itself. I did so deliberately because I thought it would add 
confusion to what I hoped was a simple question, but now I see that this 
is probably critical information. The first thing I left out is that 
setup() is what I call a 'univeral' method. When it is called from the 
__init__() method for the instance, setup() is bound to the instance, 
but when it is called from the metaclass __init__() method, it is bound 
to the class itself. This way, the specification values in *items* can 
be passed as class attributes (via dict in the metaclass __init__) or as 
keywords collected by the instance __init__(). Moreover, I "decorate" 
this method/function as being "universal" from within the metaclass 
__init__() rather than in the body of the class statement. At first I 
thought this was pretty cool, but the only way I could figure out to 
call a super setup() from a subclass (since this is a universal method) 
is to supply a munged name "_klass.__setup__" for subclasses to call. 
This is done in the metaclass as well. It is a hack, but it works.

With regard to factoring out the various 'do something' pieces of
code, I agree that this appears to be the most appropriate way to define 
the setup process, and for example it would eliminate the need for 
munging the name for subclasses. Indeed I started out this way. But here 
is why I ended up putting all the code in one method. First, some of the 
items interact (such as logical ORing several different flags). This 
could be done in separate methods by using an appropriate instance 
attribute, but it is easier to use a local variable to hold the 
intermediate result. Second, the order in which some of the setup 
functions are performed is significant. Dispatching from a list would 
preserve an order, of course, but in this case, it reads better to 
define the various functionalities one after another in the body of a 
single method. And finally, having separate setup methods for each item 
in the specification means that the metaclass would need to decorate 
each one of these methods as being "universal". Better here than in the 
body of the subclasses (IMHO), but this still adds more complexity than 
I had hoped for.

 From the standpoint of the API itself, it would be nice if each 
subclass could simply define a set of methods "setup_xxxx" where "xxxx" 
is the name of a specification to look for in "items". If I can figure 
out how to avoid the need for these specs to be handled in a particular 
order, it would make this approach much easier. If I end up keeping all 
the code in a single method (for each subclass), I will likely adopt 
Ville's suggestion (defining dictget(d, key)) to avoid repeating each 
key name.

Thanks,
Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital





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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Oct  6 16:40:15 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 16:40:15 -0400
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<4162b870$0$59523$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ck0emf$1ar$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
Message-ID: <ck1l7f$rn6$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <ck0emf$1ar$1 at s5.feed.news.oleane.net>,
Sam G. <nospam:samuelgay at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>
>But if only one thread per interpreter could run at a time, in multicore 
>two (or more) thread can't run at the same time. In performance the 
>result is almost the same : if the server has nothing else than running 
>python (not real i know, just to be simple), only one core work...
>
>Not very good for Zope, as multicore are for the near future...

Depends where it bogs down.  If it's CPU, it may be an issue.  If it's
I/O, CPython already releases the GIL and Zope benefits.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From moof at boof.moof  Tue Oct 19 04:24:15 2004
From: moof at boof.moof (Roose)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:24:15 GMT
Subject: Embedding Python in Windows tutorial?
Message-ID: <Pa4dd.15915$nj.2684@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

With some googling I have found these resources:

http://docs.python.org/ext/win-dlls.html
http://www.python.org/doc/faq/windows.html

I have a large Win32/MFC/C/C++ application that has an embedded scripting
language (a very limited one).  I would like to rip it out and replace it
with Python.  I am thinking that this would be relatively simple since the
scripting language is a very small interface between the UI and the
engine -- there would only be a handful functions I would need to wrap.

However in googling I haven't been able to come up with a completely
straightforward way to do it.  I see all these caveats mentioned casually,
and not explained, which kind of scares me.

Examples:

1. I heard Python23.dll is built with MS VC++ 6.  I am using .NET 2003 (VC++
7.1).  Is this a problem?  I wouldn't think so since I am not statically
linking... but someone said the C runtime is different between the two?
When would that be a problem?

2.  Any sample VS.NET projects / boilerplate DLL code that loads
Python23.dll into the?  Sure this is probably pretty simple -- add an
include paths, add a DLL dependency... but I'm sure there is at least one
gotcha and if I can avoid repeating other's mistakes, I'd prefer that.

3.  How does C++ change the story?  I assume at the least I have to extern
"C" any functions that are called by Python, right?  What else?

4.  The program in question has no installer -- it is an internal tool, and
people simply download the binaries .exe/.dll's/etc. from a source control
system.  Does that present any problems?  Is all they need is Python23.dll
in their system dir, which is installed if you install Python?  But I am
going to need to write some Python wrappers for functions... does this mean
I need to use distutils and all that?  One thing I didn't find clear is that
distutils will "install" a module on your own machine -- but what do you
need to do to get it onto other's machines? (e.g. non-engineers who do not
have compilers)

It seems like what I am doing is pretty much the "canonical" embedding
task -- scripting an engine of C/C++ code and also needing to access this
scripting through the GUI (i.e. so it is BOTH extending and embedding), so I
would like to know if there are some more complete Windows-specific
resources out there.

Also, any general advice on the process would be interesting.  Out of all
the people who have done some embedding -- was it worth it?  Were there a
lot of headaches?  One of my concerns now is that it will decrease the
debuggability of the application.  In a pure C/C++ app in VS.NET, it is
pretty simple to debug.  But now I will have a layer of Python in between,
which could make it a big pain.  In general this is kind of an "extra"
project at work that I don't want to spend a whole lot of time on.  (It will
help "sell" python to a large group of very capable engineers, if that
motivates anyone to help me.  : ) )

Thanks in advance for any help.

Roose




From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Oct  4 13:10:24 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:10:24 -0700
Subject: ActivePython/IIS Request Concurrency
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F27@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Erik Rose wrote:
> It seems that the combination of ActivePython, ASP, and IIS 
> is incapable of processing multiple HTTP requests at a time.
> Am I insane? Is this, perhaps, a configuration issue on my end?
> 
> Here's the test code that brought me to this conclusion:
> 
> <%@ Language = Python %>
> <%
> def slow():
>      for i in range(100000):
>          j = i * i;
>      return 'Wow, that took forever!!!';
> 
> Response.write(slow());
> %>
> 
> I dumped the above into a file called slow.asp, yielding a page that 
> takes about 7 seconds to load. When I load slow.asp in two browser 
> windows approximately simultaneously, one of them loads 7 
> seconds after 
> the other. If they were running concurrently, I would expect them to 
> both load almost simultaneously, after about 14 seconds. I 
> got the same 
> results using a time.sleep(10) call instead of the above 
> CPU-heavy loop. 
> Incidentally, a similar test with ActivePerl yields the same results.
> 
> If this limitation is real, it seems to me that this setup is 
> entirely 
> unsuitable for production work, since any page that makes a 
> long-running 
> DB query brings all other request processing to a halt. This would 
> surprise me, though, given the high profile of ActiveState's 
> products in 
> the IIS community. Can anybody give me some good news here? 
> I'm striving 
> valiantly to free my project from the clutches of VBScript 
> but have been 
> thus far foiled. :-)

Insanity is in the mind's eye of the beholder. ;) All I can tell you is
that I don't have that problem. But I'm not using ActivePython, just IIS
+ pywin32. My first thought was that the "application protection"
setting in IIS (process isolation, essentially) might be the culprit,
but I tried all three settings without any difficulties on your script.
:( If you want to put together a list of "likely candidate" IIS settings
and ask me "what's your system set at?", feel free.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From ofatemi at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 30 22:16:59 2004
From: ofatemi at yahoo.com (Omid Fatemi)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 19:16:59 -0700
Subject: fcntl and FCNTL
References: <74b5ee0a.0410291907.3d73764f@posting.google.com>
	<w4mdncnRG8DIDh7cRVn-gA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <74b5ee0a.0410301816.76020db1@posting.google.com>

Dear Peter;
thank you for your response.
Does this mean that in Windows I can't use fcntl module.
If yes, what functions do you suggest to use instead of fcntl funtions.

I could see the funtions in posixfile are using fcntl functions.
Do you have any alternative for posixfile module?

Regards;

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<w4mdncnRG8DIDh7cRVn-gA at powergate.ca>...
> Omid Fatemi wrote:
> > I followed discussion in the group about this problem:
> > 
> > ImportError: No module named fcntl
> > 
> > I found out there are two modules:
> > FCNTL
> > fcntl
> > the first one is obsolete and shouldn't be used.
> > But the second one is usable.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, there is no fcntl in my python installation (Python
> > 2.3.3, I got it from python site for Windows). There is FCNTL.py which
> > is just a warning message and some imports.
> > 
> > Am I missing some files here. How could I have access to fcntl module.
> 
>  From the docs in http://docs.python.org/lib/module-fcntl.html
> 
> """Availability: Unix."""
> 
> I don't know if there's an alternative.  Presumably the archives
> for the list would answer this clearly, since as you say others
> have asked the question before.
> 
> -Peter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 31 03:24:31 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:24:31 -0700
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...
	python on ?)
In-Reply-To: <sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
	<sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <20041031012323.0C28.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> flab ba wrote:
> > The pragmatic programmers (Dave & Andy) are spreading a good word about
> > RubyOnRails. I was wondering if there are any Python programmers who are
> > /also/ familiar with Rails - and if they could recommend something in the
> > Python world that is comparable.
> 
> I googled for that to learn about it.  Saw a note in the home page
> of rubyonrails.org from Oct 11 about them having a new bug tracker
> working!
> 
> "Cool," sez I, a fan of issue trackers in general, "Let's see
> what these Ruby guys have come up with for a bug tracker."
> 
> It's Trac.

You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
(www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.

 - Josiah



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 15:53:36 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:53:36 +0200
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<05-dnQf-wsk1suDcRVn-sQ@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <1gm8e7g.5vap9s1j8w6huN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote:

> Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> 
> > Makes my _source_code_ a derived work, and therefore must be
> > GPL'd?  That just doesn't sound right.
> 
> Well doesn't your work derive some functionality
> from the imported code? Does your code work without
> the import?

Interesting questions.  As long as there exists somewhere a module with
the same name, which you can import for the same purpose, I would say,
'no'.

For example, assume there is a commercial foo.py that is distributed
only under some costly and onerous license.  An enterprising paladin of
free software implements and distributes a work-alike foo.py that
follows the same specifications of the commercial one, but is GPL'd.

Now, I write my masterpiece oof.py:

import foo
while foo.bar():
    foo.baz()

Is this a derived work from the commercial foo.py?  I don't see how --
it doesn't use _one bit_ from it.  Is this a derived work from the GPL'd
foo.py?  Again I don't see how -- it's perfectly able to work with the
commercial version instead of the GPL one.

Now suppose the commercial enterprise producing the original foo.py,
wilting under the competition of the GPL version, goes bankrupt.  The
commercial foo.py is no longer available.  Does this suddenly and
retroactively make my oof.py, whose existence predated the event, a
"derivative work" of the GPL foo.py?

I am not a lawyer, and it wouldn't matter much if I was, because it's
the _courts'_ opinion that counts; I don't think the GPL in general has
ever been tested in the courts, much less the specific provision that a
bunch of bits (oof.pyc, or oof.o if I process that a bit, etc) may be a
derived work of
another bunch of bits (foo.py), with which neither them nor any of their
predecessors in the chain (oof.py) share anything, just because, among
the many potential interface-compliant implementations of (foo.pyc,
foo.o, etc), with which oof.pyc might be dynamically connected to
perform intended purpose, one happens to be covered by GPL.

If I choose to link statically (to make oof.exe, etc), then it does
strike me as reasonable doctrine that the whole oof.exe IS a derived
work of foo.py, because it contains bits derived from it (a processed
foo.pyc).  Since oof.exe (if the courts concur) is a derived work of (a
specific implementation of) foo.py, that implementation-foo.py's license
_should_ govern the conditions for copying/distributing oof.exe, which
may (and do, in the case of GPL) require source distribution under
certain licenses, etc, etc.

But if I distribute an oof.exe which does NOT include foo.pyc, and
requires the latter (in some interface-compatible implementation) to be
made available otherwise, then we're back into the contentious "dynamic
linking" issue.  Until some courts start ruling on that issue, I guess
we'll all just have to be curious and fruitlessly debate our opinions.


> People need to understand once and for all that
> GPL is about "forcing" you to make your program
> open source. Whether that sounds right
> or wrong to you, whether you like it or hate it
> is irrelevant.

Yes; what's most relevant is the courts' opinions in the matter, which
unfortunately so far we do not know.

> Obviously no one like suddenly realize that they are
> bound by GPL  but everyone must keep this in mind
> *before* choosing that path.

Of course: in particular, choosing to fight in court the GPL, or some
specific provision of it, including the specific one of interest (under
which condition is my oof.o a derived work of anything that is not part
of its precursor sources), will no doubt entail a large amount of odium
coming from large parts of the free software community.  Even if a given
corporation's IP lawyers were certain that the "derived work from
dynamic linking" doctrive won't hold up in court, that corporation's
management still has a duty to the shareholders to consider whether the
PR costs of fighting that battle might not exceed the value to the
shareholders of doing that bit of dynamic linking.  Personally, I'm very
curious to know how the case would go, but not curious enough to risk
spending my own money and attracting the odium on myself to make a test
case!-)

In practice, the issue is moot, since we _will_ all be submerged by
software patents anyway, compared to which these copyrights issues will
(I predict) soon appear as trifles.


Alex


From jfabiani at yolo.com  Wed Oct 27 10:12:47 2004
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:12:47 GMT
Subject: wxPython - get text from wxTextCtrl on a seperate frame
References: <63d215dd.0410270526.551740a9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <z1Ofd.12038$6q2.11182@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

Russ Phillips wrote:

> I'm just starting to learn Python & wxPython. I have a frame named
> frSend in a file fSend. On this frame is a wxTextCtrl named txtMsg. I
> have a module named defs.py
> 
> I would like to get the value of txtMsg from within defs.py
> 
> I tried the following:
> 
>     BodyText = fSend.frSend.txtMsg.GetValue ()
> 
> When I run it, I get the following error:
> 
>     AttributeError: class frSend has no attribute 'txtMsg'
> 
> Any help much appreciated.
> 
> Russ
First it might be better to ask this question on wxPython-user group rather 
than here - it may help you in the future. ?
I can't follow the code so I'll provide what I'd normally do.

First I would set my var
#I assume much here
mytextVar=txtMsg.GetValue()
#next create the control
Tcontrol=wx.TextCtrl(self,10,mytextVar, size=(200,300) ....
#make sure you add what style etc to the control
John


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Oct  5 17:07:12 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 17:07:12 -0400
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cjv2e0$nbk$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Andreas Kostyrka  <andreas at kostyrka.org> wrote:
>
>So, IMHO, there are basically the following design decisions:
>GIL: large granularity
>MSL: (many small locks) would slow down the overall execution of Python
>     programs.
>MSLu: (many small locks, unsafe) inacceptable because it would change
>      Python experience ;)

That's a good summation.  Not quite QOTW, but definitely something
everyone should remember.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From michael at stroeder.com  Mon Oct 25 08:29:24 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:29:24 +0200
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <468v42-c23.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Christian Tismer wrote:
> 
> I would love to publish Stackless 3.1, of course.
> Also I know that there is some inherent bug in it.
> [..]
> I'm seeking for a person who would take the job to
> find the buglet. He would need to debug and
> nail down a commercial application, which I cannot
> make public. (S)He would need to sign an NDA with me.

Hopefully your customer does not read this news group...

> The success payment would be $500, minimum. If the problem
> shows up to be very hard (to some undefined definition
> of very hard, to be negotiated), it can be increased
> to $1000.
> [..]
> You need to
> be a real hardcore system hacker with many years of
> experience.
> [..]
> The cheapest complete solution wins. Hurry up :-)
 > [..]
> Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
> tismerysoft GmbH             :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
> Carmerstr. 2                 :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
> 10623 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/

I'm not sure about the exact daily rates for programmers in Berlin but I 
would not expect many responses from really skilled people for taking over a 
commercial project for such a low payment and additionally taking the risk 
that there's no payment at all.

Ciao, Michael.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Oct 14 14:23:43 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:23:43 -0500
Subject: get list of callable methods
In-Reply-To: <20041014184217.24030.951151985.divmod.quotient.476@ohm>
	(<exarkun@divmod.com>'s
	message of "Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:42:17 GMT")
References: <20041014184217.24030.951151985.divmod.quotient.476@ohm>
Message-ID: <m2655d6tw0.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

    >>   __all__ is the best indicator.  Since not all modules define
    >> it, though, inspect.getsourcefile() is a reasonable fallback to
    >> filter things based on the file of their definition.

Great - this seems to get the job done

import sys, inspect
import matplotlib.matlab

class defined_in:
    def __init__(self, modname):
        self.modname = modname
        
    def __call__(self, o):
        return (inspect.isfunction(o) and
                o.__module__==self.modname and
                not o.__name__.startswith('_'))

modname = 'matplotlib.matlab'
members = inspect.getmembers(sys.modules[modname], defined_in(modname))
for name, o in members:
    print name

JDH


From faheem at email.unc.edu  Sat Oct  9 16:30:17 2004
From: faheem at email.unc.edu (Faheem Mitha)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:30:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: integer type conversion problem/question
In-Reply-To: <20041009124139.EDB7.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <slrncmf2hc.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<slrncmgf4i.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<20041009124139.EDB7.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0410091619420.8590@Chrestomanci>



On Sat, 9 Oct 2004, Josiah Carlson wrote:

>> It looks like using a random number generator which uses unsigned ints
>> as its seeds with Python is probably close to impossible then. Can
>> anyone suggest a good C/C++ random number implementation which can be
>> used easily with Python in this fashion? I want something that is
>> full-featured, ie. has reasonable support for different random number
>> distributions. Also, something that was already packaged in a
>> reasonable fashion as part of a shared library would be nice. I
>> suppose something whose seeds are stored as ints or longs would work
>> Ok.
>
> Mersenne Twister is included with Python 2.3 and later (maybe even 2.2,
> I can't remember that far back).
>
> You can use it via:
> import random
>
> It includes various distributions, read the documentation.

I'd looked at this earlier, but they didn't seem to have implemented a C 
API. If there is one, I haven't been able to find it in 
http://python.org/doc/2.3.4/api/api.html or anywhere else. I don't want to 
import Python code into C/C++ even if that is possible. I think it is 
easiest to work with a straight C/C++ library and interface it with 
Python, assuming that I don't run into type conversion issues.

A random number C module does exist in Python 2.3. On my system (Debian 
Sarge) it is /usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload/_random.so. However, it is 
probably not set up to be directly accessed from C/C++ code.

                                                                Faheem.


From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Oct 12 15:29:49 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:29:49 -0700
Subject: Using os.system() and string concatenation
References: <mailman.4764.1097606614.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-FB6CB7.12294912102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.4764.1097606614.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 Wayne Witzel III <wwitzel3 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Using Python 2.3
> 
> Currently I process three files and build the output of those files in
> to lists using for statements.
> 
> I think take those lists and provide them to an os.system() call.
> 
> cmd = "/usr/sbin/useradd"
> os.system(cmd + list1[0] + list1[1] + list2[0] + list3[0])
> 
> This executes without any errors, but doesn't execute the command
> supplied to os.system(). Now if I place them all in cmd first, then
> supply it to os.system() it executes just fine. So there really isn't
> a problem, just wanting to know what would cause such behavior.

As already mentioned in other followups, could be white
space missing.

On the other hand, this looks to me like a very good place to
use os.spawnv instead of os.system.  It might resolve the
present problem, but much more importantly, it will avoid
more dangerous problems of a similar nature.  When you construct
a shell command out of data from files, data becomes shell
syntax, and there is in theory the possibility that the result
will be worse than just invalid, it may execute a different
command or different parameters than you had in mind, with a
wide range of potentially unpleasant results.

But spawnv() executes the command directly, with the parameters
you supply, unlike system() which invokes the shell.  So with
spawnv() you don't need white space, but more importantly the
only command that can run as a result is the one you specify.

  os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, '/usr/sbin/useradd',
              ['useradd', list1[0], list1[1], list2[0], list3[0]])

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Mon Oct  4 16:55:21 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:55:21 +0200
Subject: How can I make an existing object read-only?
Message-ID: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Maybe I'm way off track here, but I want to do something like this:

Say I have an object that's initialized with a bunch of attributes.
I want to pass the object to a piece of code that is not allowed
to add/delete/set attributes on this object.
When control returns, the code is again allowed to make changes
to the object.

I know; "we're all adults, just don't change the attributes!", but
the following code more or less seems to work:

class ReadOnly:
  ....
     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
         if self._page_readonly:
             raise AttributeError, "page object is read-only"
         else:
             self.__dict__[name] = value
  ....

and then controlling the setattr by setting _page_readonly.

Now I was wondering: isn't there another way?
Because the objects involved have quite a few attributes,
and initializing the objects will now call my custom setattr
method for every attribute. The code concerned is more or less
time-critical so I'd rather not have this custom setattr method
when initializing the object...

Is there another way to hack this? Am I making sense at all? ;-)


--Irmen.


From marcus at deepfort.com  Mon Oct 25 13:40:13 2004
From: marcus at deepfort.com (marcus at deepfort.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:40:13 +0100
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <417D3A7D.5060809@deepfort.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

>Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
>in site-packages) in an application.
>
>Let's also say I use py2exe to package and distribute said
>application.
>
>Is what I'm distributing a "derived work" of the GPL'd python?
>Or is py2exe's packaging of the module's .pyc file and my
>application code's .pyc files a "mere aggregation" so that I
>only have to provide source code for the GPL'ed module and not
>for my application code?
>
>IOW, do I have to GPL my application code and distribute source
>code for it?
>  
>
Just a thought..

Why don't you just GPL the whole lot? Headache over, and a warm fuzzy 
feeling in its place.

If your work could be used to extend or wrap the module, it's possible 
someone else may find it useful...

Notwithstanding, obviously, any considerations you might have that would 
stop you, that's what I'd do - besides which, if you're benefiting from 
GPL stuff, give something back.. go on, you know you want to.. :-)

Like I said, just a thought.


From moof at boof.moof  Tue Oct 12 01:26:46 2004
From: moof at boof.moof (Roose)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 05:26:46 GMT
Subject: String replace with return value?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4689.1097490229.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <8Fsad.11445$nj.10631@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<mailman.4689.1097490229.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qWJad.11976$nj.7909@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

Gerhard Haering wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 09:47:48AM +0000, Roose wrote:
> 
>>How can I do a "".replace operation which tells me if anything was 
>>actually replaced?
> 
> 
> You could compare the strings from before and after the replacement.
> 
> 
>>Right now I am doing something like:
>>
>>if searchTerm in text:
>>     text = text.replace( searchTerm, 'other' )
>>
>>But to me this seems inefficient since the 'in' operation will search 
>>through the whole string, and then the 'replace' will as well.
> 
> 
> Yep. Why not just omit the check and just do the replacement?


I thought of that, but don't you see, that's pretty much the same thing. 
  It's a question of doing an 'in' and a replace vs. a compare and a 
replace.  Both in and equality comparison are linear operations, so 
choosing over the other doesn't really matter.  A speedup can still be 
obtained by traversing the string once instead of twice.

Now, the person who suggested using 'is' (which is constant time) was 
onto something, but alas replace doesn't work like that.  As someone 
demonstrated, it returns a new string in any case.


> 
> 
>>The strings are quite large, they're whole web pages.  Thanks for
>>any help.
> 
> 
> Then I'd suggest to eventually switch to an existing templating
> solution for HTML.

That doesn't apply, since I'm not generating web pages.  I'm 
transforming existing ones in a spider kind of program.

> For your particular question, you can also use the re module to
> perform string substitutions. And then, there's re.subn or the subn
> method of regular expression objects, which will return both the
> modified string and the number of substitutions.

Thank you, that's just what I was looking for.

Roose


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 13:46:26 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:46:26 -0300
Subject: operation with strings and numbers
In-Reply-To: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it>
References: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it>
Message-ID: <864d37090410151046144361ef@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:35:16 +0200, Hellas <hellas_74 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello guy
> I'm italian boy, I need help for doing a strange thing with numbers
> 
> I have a number from operation like this:
> a = float("010.123")
> b = float("001.124")
> p= a*b
> p="%06.3f" % p
> the resulted is "_11,278" where "_" is a space
> I must to change the formatting of this number in "011278" but I don't known
> what to do
> Could you help me please?
> thanks a lot

There are two things that you need to do: fix the format string, and
process the string after the conversion is made. Assuming you want to
do (1), there is a very simple mistake to fix. Try this:

>>> "%07.3f" % p
'011.378'

Instead of "06", use "07" -- remember that you have to count the "."
in the floating point representation. After you've done that, remove
the "." from the resulting string, by replacing it with a empty
string:

s = "%07.3f" % p
s = s.replace(".","")

If you want to do everything into a single line, then just do it:

s = ("%07.3f" % p).replace(".","")

Another option is to convert the floating point number to a integer
*before* formatting:

>>> "%06d" % int(p*1000)
'011378'


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Tue Oct  5 02:17:21 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 08:17:21 +0200
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
In-Reply-To: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
References: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cjte9h$sh4$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Russell Nelson wrote:
> Jef Raskin (namedropping) has pointed me at a neat scheme for quoting
> arbitrary textual matter called "Mandis quotes".  Since google is
> ignorant of the phrase, I presume that Jef made it up.  It is
> disgustingly simple, and very Pythonesque.  Here's how it works: If
> you have a string that doesn't have any single quotes in it, you
> surround the string by a pair of doubled single quotes.  ''Like
> this''.  No backslash interpolation.  If you want a character in
> there, you put it in there (yes, I know, stand down your armies).
> Clearly, then, any character except a single quote can go into one of
> these strings.  If you need to put a single quote in, then you put
> an arbitrary string in-between the single quotes which does NOT
> appear in the string.  For example, "Bill's house" becomes
> 'x'Bill's house'x'.
> 
> More formally, a mandis quote is a pair of tokens surrounding a
> completely arbitrary sequence of bytes.  These tokens are comprised of
> a possibly null sequence of characters preceded by and followed by a
> single quote.
> 
> To save time, here's why this pre-PEP proposal sucks in decreasing
> order of severity:
> 
> o Python source is typically represented, not as an arbitrary string
>   of ASCII or Unicode characters, but instead as a sequence of lines
>   separated by the native line terminator (e.g. CRLF, LF, or CR).
> 
> o Editors are not all up to the task of inserting arbitrary
>   characters into strings (although they SHOULD).
> 
> o Email cannot withstand arbitrary strings of characters (although
>   quoted-printable suffices).
> 
> o Some distinct Unicode characters are represented using the same
>   glyph, so that information is lost when text gets printed (but
>   that's more of a Unicode stupidism.)
> 
> Obviously, the justification for it is that it eliminates ", ', r",
> r', """, and ''' from the syntax, replacing them by a single 'x' that
> suffices for everything.  Makes the code easier to read (only one
> visual element), easier to parse, and easier to write, because you
> don't need to decide which literal method to use.

And distinctly ugly. I much prefer """ or ''' :-)


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Oct  8 04:26:47 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:26:47 +0200
Subject: Mailman backup
References: <mailman.4558.1097221062.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.08.08.26.47.272126@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:40:19 -0500 schrieb Info VH:

> 
> I need to backup my list of subscribers on my Mailman mailing list. Any 
> suggestions?

Hi,

Please provide more information. What do you want to do?

 Thomas



From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Oct 12 09:50:03 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:50:03 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <416bd75f$0$10909$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <20041012135003.19317.1227934130.divmod.quotient.1589@ohm>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:08:46 +0200, "Nicolas Lehuen" <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> Yeah I know this. My point was that when benchmarking single-threaded
> programs vs multithreaded ones, you have to choose the kind of program
> you use : CPU-intensive vs IO-intensive. On a single CPU machine,
> CPU-intensive program will always run better in a single-threaded model.
> But of course, if you have 2 procs and a nice threading model, you can
> even do 2 CPU-intensive tasks simultaneously, which Python cannot do if
> I've understood everything so far.

  The way to do this is to write an extension module, implement your CPU-intensive tasks, and release the GIL around it.  You can argue that this is not "in Python", but it is possible, widely practiced, supported by the language, developer community, and existing APIs, and lets you adjust Python's threading behavior _specific to your application_, rather than requiring every Python program written by every Python programmer comply with your wishes for the language.

  Jp


From robin.siebler at palmsource.com  Fri Oct  8 15:25:26 2004
From: robin.siebler at palmsource.com (Robin Siebler)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 12:25:26 -0700
Subject: UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa0 in
	position 10: ordinal not in range(128)
References: <95c29a5e.0410071540.c27186a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4539.1097193254.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95c29a5e.0410081125.18907895@posting.google.com>

It's just a file path.  It doesn't *have* any non-ASCII chars in it to
begin with!  That's why I don't understand why I'm getting the error. 
I didn't get it with Python 2.2, but we just upgraded to
(Active)Python 2.3.


From f.geiger at vol.at  Wed Oct  6 12:51:49 2004
From: f.geiger at vol.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:51:49 +0200
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <ck17j6$7ft$1@newshispeed.ch>

I'm in the process of writing a Waterjet Control in Python (progress is
slow, 'cause I do it in my spare time). Again and again I am considering to
go the open source route with it. Until now I didn't dare to do so, because
still I cannot see how I could earn my living with open source software.
That's probably the reason, why I again and again postponed to ask here,
whether anyone would be interested in such a thing and helping to work on
such a thing resp.

As I intend to build an OPC server into "my product" (but have no idea how
to do that), I was triggered by this thread, as you guess. Perhaps this is
the right time to at least show interest in

- using an OPC server written in Python,
- helping out in working on it (well, I am an application programmer, so I
don't know if writing an OPC server would be beyond my capabilities),
- and to contribute application code for standard process control modules,
if such modules are planned (for now my app is written in wx/Python, can
load programs and check 'em for proper syntax; a dummy nc-processor
processes is and displays the jet movements in an PyOpenGL window).

The last point is probably also not an easy one, because each and every app
is different from the other. So what could standard app modules be?

Anyway, on interest I'll write up what I have so far (architecture, hardware
I
plan to use, screenshots) and load it up to my server.

Kind regards
Franz GEIGER

"Wolfgang Keller" <wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg at 40tude.net...
> Hello,
>
> is it that my know-how to use Google is insufficient or...
>
> ...does really noone use Python for industrial control applications?
>
> At least I didn't manage to find any publicly available modules for such
> things as OPC/fieldbus communication etc...
>
> TIA,
>
> best regards,
>
> Wolfgang Keller







From mr_rysiu at go2.pl  Sat Oct 30 13:28:45 2004
From: mr_rysiu at go2.pl (Krzysztof =?iso-8859-2?Q?Ksi=B1=BFek?=)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:28:45 +0200
Subject: py2exe and window with info about error
References: <mailman.5692.1099100508.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1mnxnbqn8bop3.dlg@cokolwiek.pl>
	<mailman.5715.1099149808.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1jjrkzwqualbh$.dlg@cokolwiek.pl>

On 2004-10-30 17:15:55 Josiah Carlson wrote:

> How is your script being run?  Is it placed in one of the registry
> locations:
> HKLM/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Run

It is located in that registry key.

Greetings,
Krzysztof Ksiazek


From jerf at jerf.org  Wed Oct 13 18:51:55 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:51:55 GMT
Subject: String manipulation advice needed.
References: <CE90A4CF2E5E9C4890AE5D9D8A5EFAE3032CCC22@CINMLVEM10.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<mailman.4897.1097694090.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rY-dndXE6JzHMPDcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.13.19.12.45.12123@jerf.org>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:34:03 -0400, Peter L Hansen wrote:

> Josiah Carlson wrote:
>> Regular Expressions are your freind.  Take a peek at the re module.
> 
> No, regular expressions are your enemy, but it's always good
> to "know thine enemy", and sometimes you want to use your
> enemy as well.

"Some people, when confronted with a problem, think ``I know, I'll use
regular expressions.'' Now they have two problems." - jwz

http://www.jwz.org/hacks/marginal.html (along with several other pages)


From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Mon Oct  4 09:55:23 2004
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:55:23 +0200
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
In-Reply-To: <5eu732-2gg.ln1@suse.zobbo.org>
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4211.1096808398.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cjr4mp$dj0$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp>
	<5eu732-2gg.ln1@suse.zobbo.org>
Message-ID: <4161564B.2030500@cenix-bioscience.com>

Ian J Cottee wrote:

> Daniel Dittmar wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, Paul Graham paints Java programmers as dimwits. So 
>> quoting him is likely to start a flamewar. This is perhaps not the 
>> best choice from a diplomatic point of view.
>
>
> That is not what he said or meant. As he himself clarifies:
>
> """In a recent talk I said something that upset a lot of people: that 
> you could get smarter programmers to work on a Python project than you 
> could to work on a Java project.
>
> I didn't mean by this that Java programmers are dumb. I meant that 
> Python programmers are smart. It's a lot of work to learn a new 
> programming language. And people don't learn Python because it will 
> get them a job; they learn it because they genuinely like to program 
> and aren't satisfied with the languages they already know.
>
> Which makes them exactly the kind of programmers companies should want 
> to hire. Hence what, for lack of a better name, I'll call the Python 
> paradox ... """
>
> http://www.paulgraham.com/pypar.html
>
> Ian

Hello,

You can quote it in different ways :

---
But when you choose a language, you're also choosing a community. The 
programmers you'll be able to hire to work on a Java project won't be as 
smart <http://www.paulgraham.com/pypar.html> as the ones you could get 
to work on a project written in Python
---

This is from his _own_website - he then follows it up with :

---
Though, frankly, the fact that good hackers prefer Python to Java should 
tell you something about the relative merits of those languages.
---

Next we have :

---
And of all the great programmers I can think of who don't work for Sun, 
on Java, I know of zero.
---

    On the retract posted above :

---
It's a lot of work to learn a new programming language.
--

    The response on this would be - 'but you just told me that python is 
'easy to learn''.

    Although that was probably retracted afterwards - the fact that that 
quote exists will be picked up people.  I'm not insulting the quality of 
writing as it is a very well written article - it just isn't gonna help 
anyone trying to advocate python in a sensible business, that kind of 
retort sounds like an American election campaign!!

Cheers,

Neil

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
BioInnovations Zentrum
Tatzberg 47
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (0)351 4173 154
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com



From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 15 14:58:31 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 21:58:31 +0300
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>
	<416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<mailman.4998.1097833203.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekjz3lly.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp6fb$gvi$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <du7sm8f24h4.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Jarek" == Jarek Zgoda <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> writes:

    Jarek> Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> pisze:

    >> This Qt licensing thing is way too messy, I'm not surprised
    >> that so many developers are doing their best to avoid it...

    Jarek> No, it isn't. It's GNU GPL. What do you consider unclear?

Isn't it just the Unix/X11 version that is GPL/QPL dual licensed?

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Fri Oct 22 15:50:06 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 19:50:06 GMT
Subject: WxHTML window
References: <da33561c.0410210551.19480fd2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041022155006.07907.00001787@mb-m24.aol.com>

Thanks, that works like a charm!


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Oct 24 23:58:40 2004
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 20:58:40 -0700
Subject: how do i change from string to list
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>
	<417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<417c1cda$0$152$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0410241958.7222d1f0@posting.google.com>

"Ivo Woltring" <TheDolphin at ivonet.nl> wrote in message news:<417c1cda$0$152$3a628fcd at reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>...
> I agree completely!
> Didn't know the list() though.
> But all work so my answer is just as valid as yours
> 
> ;-))
> Ivo

This will probably work, too -- is it "valid"?

s = 'spot'
slen = len(s)
alist = [''] * slen
for i in range(slen):
    alist[i] = s[i]

You can write code in Perl or Intercal [bonus points if you can tell
the difference] and it's "valid" in the sense that it works, but there
are many more considerations than that.


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct 14 02:50:56 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 06:50:56 GMT
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mo6q66oi0kj04@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmplmh.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mqr0rlj9h6r69@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncms8aq.1cm.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-10-13, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>>Op 2004-10-12, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
>>  
>>
>>>Functions are at a different level of granularity than numbers and 
>>>lists.  Anonymity makes sense for numbers and lists; it makes less sense 
>>>for collections of numbers and lists; and it makes still less sense for 
>>>organized collections of numbers, lists, and operations thereon, which 
>>>are structured in a meaningful way to express some (part of an) 
>>>algorithm.
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>I find it better to let the coder decide what makes sense in his program
>>and what not.
>>  
>>
>
> Which is the Perl philosophy.  Many people seem quite happy with Perl 
> because of this TMTOWTDI attitude; personally, I prefer Python's clarity 
> and simplicity.

Well if that is the Perl attitude, please inform me who is to decide
what makes sense and what not to put in a program according to the
Python philosophy.


>>>Similarly, I don't expect each line of code to have an 
>>>individual name, but once I collect lines of code into a file, I 
>>>certainly *do* expect to name that file, even if the file is only one or 
>>>two lines long.
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>So? If you then want to develop the code, do you put the new code in a
>>new file and then use a program to include it, or do you put unnamed
>>text in the already existing file?
>>  
>>
>
> Actually, I effectively do both of those, depending on circumstances.  
> (Opening a new editor, typing in it, and then pasting that text into the 
> middle of an existing file.)  However, in this (admittedly weak, 
> especially when pushed this far) analogy, a lambda is equivalent to 
> putting the text in a new file, and insisting that that file not be 
> given a name and be kept separate from the parent file, but be 
> programmatically included nonetheless.  Would you *want* to do that, 
> even if your operating system allowed it?

But a lambda has a name, if it hasn't it would be useless, just a
temporary one. Lamda's are typically used as an argument to a function
or method. Within that function they have a name. In that respect they
are no different from a list literal. And list literals are just
as much part of the code as lambda's. So are you argueing against
list literals as parameters or in expressions too? Because this
analogy of yours doesn't make a distinction between lambda's and
lists.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From mwm at mired.org  Sat Oct 16 11:40:25 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:40:25 -0500
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4920.1097716237.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4958.1097771160.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416eeb74$0$23209$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<x7oej3vddz.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<4170bc0e$0$26583$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <x7hdouvfh2.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
> On 2004-10-15, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
>>> Exactly.  Any number of "low level", statically typed,
>>> compiled, languages would work equally as well.  Modula-2 (not
>>> sure about M-3, the GC stuff maybe a bit iffy in a kernel),
>>> Ada, BLISS, PL/I, Pascal, etc.
>>
>> Haven't operating systems been written in most of those languages?
> VMS was mostly in BLISS, I believe.  I think MacOS (and maybe
> parts of MS-Windows way back when) were written in Pascal.  I'm
> sure IBM must have written at least one OS in PL/I (whether it
> escaped into the wild or not, I don't know).  I _think_ Intel
> wrote iRMX in PL/M (a PL/I derivitive).  I can't think of any
> OSes written in Modula-[23] off the top of my head.

DECWRL was heavy into both Modula and new machines/OS's. I'd be
surprised if they didn't write at least one OS in Modula.

          <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 17:26:19 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:26:19 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6dqy.17aec2n1uecu0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4340.1096988457.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4356.1096994017.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl7hm9.axk9rb2z5qtaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
   ...
> >course covered basic concepts, and as "homework" assignments each
> >student had to choose some language and produce a 20-30min report (yes,
> >we had to present them to the rest of the class).
   ...
> Really?  Well, I never took computer science so I guess I wouldn't 
> exactly know.  What's the point of making them write a report?

Testing skills about doing biblio research, summarizing findings
thereof, presenting them -- skills which will be crucial to their
professional lives, and thus ones they should be encouraged to hone and
practice.  I got lot of that in high school (it _was_ a rather elite
one) and a little in university (mostly in electives such as Operations
Research and the like).

The point isn't so much that I remember more about the Roman "cursus
honorum", the contrasting visions of science practice in Comte, Engels
and Heisenberg, or alpha-beta pruning and variants thereof, than if I
had them spoon-fed to me -- none of these areas really made any money
for me in 25 years of professional practice.  It's the meta-skill of
researching some field and reporting on it which _did_ stand me in good
stead throughout this time, notwithstanding the huge technological
changes in the underlying infrastructure (I haven't had to read a spool
of microfilm in 30 years or more, and Google's FAR easier to use than
any library catalog ever was... but the overall mental skill of
researching, digesting, and synthesizing right back in summary form, is
still very much the same!).


Alex


From askari at addressNonValide.com  Wed Oct  6 22:10:12 2004
From: askari at addressNonValide.com (Askari)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 02:10:12 GMT
Subject: printing file/image on default Printer
References: <Xns957960B5B9520askariaddressNonVali@207.35.177.135>
	<gOG8d.291818$4o.115966@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <Xns957AE193A25BDaskariaddressNonVali@207.35.177.135>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in
news:gOG8d.291818$4o.115966 at fed1read01: 

> Askari wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>    I search how "I" can printing file/image with a script but the
>>    user (who 
>> use my script) must DO NOTHING (other that dealing with my GUI). e.g.
>> : with AdobeAcrobat, the user must click "ok" in the "pre"printing
>> windows. 
>> 
>> My solutions, but NOT ok :
>>  - Build a .pdf (with reportLab) and print with Adode
>>  - Build a image file and print it with "DisplayImage.py" but don't
>>  work 
>> (error raised)
>> 
>> (note : the OS, for my problem, is just Windows)
>> 
>> Someone have a other idea/solution? 
>> 
>> Askari
> 
> Take as look at wxPython, which has a brilliant demo. One of the demo 
> programs shows you how you can drive a printer from Python using the 
> standard Windows print dialog (which is what I presume you are
> seeking). 
> 
> regards
>   Steve

wxPython : This #%? module causing big problem on most computer. Some .py 
(for no ressons), when terminate, raise a Windows error (critical). 
And, IT'S this module who "do" this conflit problem; When wxPython is 
installed, errors raise; when uninstalled, no error, when wxPython is 
installed, errors raise, when uninstalled, no error, etc.

"maybe" a good module, but enter conflit with some .py and it's not 
acceptable for me,
thanks but not good idea,

Askari



From somebody at unknown.org  Mon Oct 11 08:01:19 2004
From: somebody at unknown.org (..:: sjf ::..)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:01:19 +0200
Subject: define 'in' operator on lists
In-Reply-To: <416a7238.4294542225@news.oz.net>
References: <ckdl7u$m08$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<Xns957F72D5C6476duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<ckdolc$lpr$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<416a7238.4294542225@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <ckdsnd$eig$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

pewnego dnia niejaki(a) Bengt Richter wstukal(a) byl(a) co nastepuje...:
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:51:57 +0200, "..:: sjf ::.." <somebody at unknown.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>>pewnego dnia niejaki(a) Duncan Booth wstukal(a) byl(a) co nastepuje...:
>>
>>>..:: sjf ::.. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I want to define 'in' operator (or any "magic" function) on list which 
>>>>returns True value if all of list (i.e. _list) elements appears in other 
>>>>list (i.e. L) in the same order and False otherwise. 
>>>
>>>
>>>How about:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>def containedinsequence(short, long):
>>>
>>>	ilong = iter(long)
>>>	for s in short:
>>>	    for l in ilong:
>>>		if s==l:
>>>		    break
>>>	    else:
>>>		return False # ran out of long list
>>>	return True
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>L = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>>>>>>containedinsequence([3, 4, 6], L)
>>>
>>OK, this is nearly what I am expecting, but I want if
>>containedsequence([3, 4, 5], L) returns True, but
>>containedsequence([3, 4, 6], L) returns False
>>because that sequence not exist in longlist exactly
>>
> 
> Not very tested (just what you see ;-)
> 
It seems it works! Thanks very much!

-- 
.:: sjf ::..
"Linux is like Wigwam. No gates, no windows... Apache inside ;-)"


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 27 21:38:17 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:38:17 -0400
Subject: FTP file creation date
In-Reply-To: <de8687be.0410270727.12eb2d3b@posting.google.com>
References: <de8687be.0410270727.12eb2d3b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f9Yfd.19$931.10@lakeread01>

[ EuGeNe ] wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to write a script that downloads one file from a ftp
> server if the file creation date satisfy a condition.
> 
> I can't figure out how to find from a ftp server what is the creation
> date of the file (using python).
> 
> Any idea?
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> EuGeNe

Take a look at the ftpmirror.py script that comes in the Tools 
directory. It might give you some ideas.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu  Tue Oct 26 19:36:46 2004
From: jbenson at sextans.lowell.edu (Jim Benson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:36:46 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Charting package?
In-Reply-To: <m3sm81hymt.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410261633130.2294-100000@sextans.mesa.lowellnet>

On 26 Oct 2004, Jerry Sievers wrote:

> Dear Pythonists;
> 
> I would appreciate a recommendation of a open source package for
> charting numeric data such as stock market quotes etc.
> 
> Have such a thing in PHP called JPGraph which is very nice.
> Equivalent system in Python is desired.  Needn't be very complex as
> long as the basic charting types (lines, points, bars etc) are
> supported.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 

http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/

is very nice. Check out the screen shots for an
example of such financial plots.

Jim




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 21 05:03:34 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:03:34 GMT
Subject: how to reading binary data...
References: <20041021070520.2594.qmail@webmail25.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.5253.1098346141.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41777ab3.373283413@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:07:32 +0200, Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com> wrote:

>Hello Sandeep,
>
>>    I opened any particular file with the 'rb' mode that is read binary
>>    mode. so python will treat the data as a raw data. now i want to read
>>    first 4 bytes only then i will convert the first 4 bytes into long
>>    datatype and then again read 4 bytes and will do the same.
>>    But how to set & move the pointer using loop?
>Each time you read from a file the "file pointer" is automatically
>incrmented.
>
>>>> f = open(".bashrc")
>>>> f.tell()
>0L
>>>> f.read(1)
>'#'
>>>> f.tell()
>1L
>See http://docs.python.org/lib/bltin-file-objects.html
>
>>    also how to convert into long?
>http://docs.python.org/lib/module-struct.html
>
>HTH.

Beware of cooked input if you want to convert binary data, if you're not on unix.
E.g., windows: (tell seems to tell the binary truth, but read collapses \r\n to \n
unless you use 'rb' mode)

 >>> open('linesofthree.txt','rb').read()
 '012\r\n567\r\nABC\r\n'
 >>> f = open('linesofthree.txt')
 >>> while True:
 ...     pos = f.tell()
 ...     byt = f.read(1)
 ...     print '[%s:%r]' % (pos, byt),
 ...     if not byt: break
 ...
 [0:'0'] [1:'1'] [2:'2'] [3:'\n'] [5:'5'] [6:'6'] [7:'7'] [8:'\n'] [10:'A'] [11:'B'] [12:'C'] [13
 :'\n'] [15:'']
 >>> f = open('linesofthree.txt','rb')
 >>> while True:
 ...     pos = f.tell()
 ...     byt = f.read(1)
 ...     print '[%s:%r]' % (pos, byt),
 ...     if not byt: break
 ...
 [0:'0'] [1:'1'] [2:'2'] [3:'\r'] [4:'\n'] [5:'5'] [6:'6'] [7:'7'] [8:'\r'] [9:'\n'] [10:'A'] [11
 :'B'] [12:'C'] [13:'\r'] [14:'\n'] [15:'']
 >>> print open('linesofthree.txt','rb').read()
 012
 567
 ABC


Regards,
Bengt Richter


From nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net  Sat Oct  2 04:40:45 2004
From: nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net (Nicola Larosa)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 10:40:45 +0200
Subject: Outputting to specific sound channels?
References: <WDY6d.2397168$6p.406211@news.easynews.com>
	<Uz67d.2746$TY2.563@lakeread04>
Message-ID: <cjlpij$oju$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> It seems almost churlish to ask if you realise that a microphone is an
> input device.

Well, not necessarily. :-)

In my young days I managed to blow up a cheap dynamic microphone by plugging
it into a headphone socket.

It actually emitted soundwaves for a few, precious seconds. :-)


- -- 
Nicola Larosa - nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net

"But, hey, the very _existence_ of Microsoft would have been _impossible_
without systematic and pervasive sloppiness, carelessness and outright
lies, so it's kinda hard to argue against those vices with people who
_only_ want a quick buck (which is a vice on its own, if you ask me)."
 -- Erik Naggum on comp.lang.lisp, May 1998


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iD8DBQFBXmmXXv0hgDImBm4RAuqoAJ41N9Iy8p/NF7cwVnw+zacs2ImTGwCgvFAQ
3um0JsmaMutl1NhoDJcaV6c=
=3erw
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From foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid  Mon Oct  4 16:09:27 2004
From: foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid (Thomas Rast)
Date: 04 Oct 2004 22:09:27 +0200
Subject: Reclaiming (lots of) memory
References: <87lleo6hva.fsf@thomas.local>
	<slrncm281h.cs.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <87zn324554.fsf@thomas.local>

Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> writes:

> mmap("/dev/zero") behaves in pretty much the same way (ie it shrinks
> and grows), except for large allocation (>4k I think) the allocation
> is done in its own mmap() area.  This means that when it is freed it
> completely disappears.

Ok.  That explains why e.g.

>>> l = [0] * 10000000  # 10 million
>>> del l

frees the memory used for l, as expected.

> Thats a neat idea.  You could also build a dbm in the forked
> process.

I've implemented it that way now.  Using a pipe to transfer the data
to the dbm appears to essentially double the I/O overhead and is very
inefficient.

> >  is there an easier way to get my RAM back?
> 
> I don't think so, but hopefully an expert who knows something about
> how python allocates its objects will speak up now!

Well, can't blame Python if you'd need black magic even in C ;-)

Thanks for the explanations!

Thomas

-- 
If you want to reply by mail, substitute my first and last name for
'foo' and 'bar', respectively, and remove '.invalid'.


From james.frohnhofer at csfb.com  Tue Oct 19 16:38:08 2004
From: james.frohnhofer at csfb.com (Frohnhofer, James)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:38:08 +0100
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
Message-ID: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C61700@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>

Why do you say 'simple-minded'?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org]On
> Behalf Of aleaxit at yahoo.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 3:55 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
> 
> 
> 2. simple-minded tools have an easier time offering such editing
>    services as "auto-completion", which may save a little typing;
> 
> 3. simple-minded compilers have an easier time producing halfway
>    decent code;
> 

==============================================================================
This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you received
this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message was
misdirected, CSFB does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. CSFB
retains and monitors electronic communications sent through its network.
Instructions transmitted over this system are not binding on CSFB until they
are confirmed by us. Message transmission is not guaranteed to be secure.
==============================================================================



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 00:32:38 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:32:38 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <41621efc$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4162142c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.4294.1096947568.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4162185c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.4296.1096948074.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41621efc$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <416223E6.9070008@cloudthunder.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

>On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>>>>Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following 
>>>>>>support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>Wow. Rude much?
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>>>>>http://www.python.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>What does "Rude much" mean?
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>You've _got_ to be kidding...
>>>      
>>>
>>I don't think that that is proper english.
>>    
>>
>
>Oh. My. Gaawwwd!
>
>Which one, the "Rude much?" crack or the "You've got to be
>kidding..." crack?  The latter isn't all that improper
>(especially not for Usenet).  The former is colloqial US
>English.  More specifically it's "Valley Speak" -- made popular
>outside "The Valley" by movies like "Valley Girl", "Mall Rats",
>"Heathers", and just about any John Hughes movie (especially
>Sixteen Candles).  The first two are crap, but "Heathers" is a
>good movie, and I still like "Sixteen Candles".
>
>  
>
>>Anyhow, I wasn't trying to muster up anything or annoy anyone.
>>My sincere apologies to all who were offended.
>>    
>>
>
>Apology accepted on the condition that you read
>how-to-ask-smart-questions, and go browse around
>www.python.org for 15 minutes.
>
>  
>
I'll browse around python.org for a few hours instead of throwing in the 
"how-to-ask-smart-questions" part.  ;-)


From s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au  Thu Oct 14 08:26:37 2004
From: s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au (Shufen)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 05:26:37 -0700
Subject: Uploading an image file from a web form
Message-ID: <d3502feb.0410140426.295ee4af@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I have a form where users can use it to upload images into a file and
save it into a directory.

I have installed PIL and Image module and do a fair bit of reading on
these module. But I don't know how can I use python to get the
uploaded image file from the form.

Can I use something like that:

######################################################
im_file = form["userfile"]

######################################################

im = Image.open(im_file)
im.show()

####################################################

Can someone help? Many thanks....


Shufen


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sat Oct 23 14:32:17 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:32:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Slow debugging with Komodo
References: <417a8d3e$0$1161$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cle83h$fmt$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Will McGugan <news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com> pisze:

> On my dev machine (P4 1.7Ghz Win2K) debugging with Komodo is painfuly 
> slow. There is a delay of several seconds when stepping over a single 
> line of code. Debugging the same code with Pythonwin is very quick. Does 
> anyone else experience slow debugging, and is there anyway to speed it up?

Didn't notice such weirdness, but Komodo is rather RAM-hungry so better
close as many other programs as you can, turn off all IDE features that
you don't need. Oh, and BTW, 512MB RAM is "reasonable minimum"...

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From nick at craig-wood.com  Fri Oct  1 05:30:37 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 01 Oct 2004 09:30:37 GMT
Subject: Avoiding shell metacharacters in os.popen
References: <slrncllk2p.m4f.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<cjhb5r$ae8$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <slrnclq61c.g23.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

David Fraser <davidf at sjsoft.com> wrote:
>  Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> > 3) is there an equivalent to the perl quotemeta() command.  This
> > quotes meta-characters in a string for use in the shell.  Here is a
> > suitable definition for Unix, but I don't think that \ quoting works
> > in Windows
> > 
> >    cmd = re.sub(r"(\W)", r"\\\1", cmd)
> 
>  I can't exactly remember the details but I now I've had painful 
>  experiences on Windows trying to do this kind of thing. It seems to mess 
>  up quoting parameters / exe file names

Last time I did this for Windows was in C (urk!).  I put every
parameter in double quotes and then doubled up any " in the parameter.
This worked mostly but I don't think the OS parsed some bizarre cases
properly.

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From noemail at spam.net  Mon Oct 18 05:24:28 2004
From: noemail at spam.net (Roger Irwin)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:24:28 GMT
Subject: Python in HTAs
In-Reply-To: <98862c6.0410180054.1efff058@posting.google.com>
References: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5091.1098050399.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<98862c6.0410180054.1efff058@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gZLcd.155002$35.7633322@news4.tin.it>

Marcel van den Dungen wrote:

> Robby Russell <robby at planetargon.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.5091.1098050399.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>This isn't going to work unless your browser has some special plugin to
>>allow python scripts to run in it. Google probably turned up nothing as
>>you might be one of the first people to consider this. ;-)
>>
>>-Robby
>>
> 
> Well, that would be too much credit ;-)
> PythonCard once shipped with 2 HTAs written in Python (Pyker.hta and
> PykerLaunch.hta). I managed to plug them from CVS, but could not get them
> to work either.
> 
> Why is it possible to use Python from ASP, but not from an HTA?
> 
> Thanks,
> Marcel
No expert on this, but ASP's run in the Server and hence a subset of the 
local environment, whilst HTA's run in the browser space. Not running in 
the sandbox means they can invoke applications, but none the less a 
browser cannot automatically launch a python script unless it knows how 
to launch it.

IMHO, an advantage of an HTA is that it is a generic form that isolates 
itself from specifics of the local environment and hence simplifies 
deployment. Instead of your application targetting a specific machine 
environment it is targeting a generic environment which is encapsulated 
in the browser and hence it is possible to create a specific environment 
which is isolated from local machine characteristics. OTOH, ASP's are 
targetting the http server environment which is usually an extension of 
the local machine.



From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 15 14:33:41 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 21:33:41 +0300
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
References: <mailman.5015.1097859379.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7655b3k6y.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Donnal" == Donnal Walter <donnal at donnal.net> writes:

    Donnal> if 'something' in items:
    Donnal>     value = items['something']
    Donnal>     # now do something with value
    Donnal> if 'another' in items:
    Donnal>     value = items['another']
    Donnal>     # do something else with value

    Donnal> overridden in subclasses. The approach described above
    Donnal> works ok, so I suppose I should leave well enough alone,
    Donnal> but I have this nagging feeling that Python has a way to
    Donnal> do this more simply or more elegantly. Any suggestion?

The code is quite ok - you might avoid the repetition of 'something'
by using

a.get(k[, x])   

# a[k] if k in a, else x

If you feel 'clever' and don't care about performance (no, I didn't
benchmark this):

-----
def dictget(d, key):
    if key in d: 
        yield d[key]
    return

d = { 'spam' : 1, 'eggs' : 67 }

for value in dictget(d,'spam'):
    print value

for value in dictget(d,'larch'):
    print value + 999   # never printed


for value in dictget(d,'eggs'):
    print value + 2
-----

Well well, that's almost cookbook material even if I say so myself... ;-)

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From exogen at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 19:56:19 2004
From: exogen at gmail.com (Brian Beck)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:56:19 -0400
Subject: Error using httplib documentation example code
Message-ID: <ck79h3$evq$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>

Hi.

I'm having some problems with code based directly on the following 
httplib documentation code:
   http://www.zvon.org/other/python/doc21/lib/httplib-examples.html

I've included the code[1] and traceback[2] at the end of this post.

The odd thing is, using DEPRECATED FUNCTIONS to perform the same 
function works fine!

The working code is based on the Python 2.1.1 documentation example code 
here: http://www.zvon.org/other/python/doc21/lib/httplib-examples.html

The working code[3] and partial result[4] are at the end of this post.

What sems to be the problem is that the read() method is getting caught 
up on the MIME-version part of the response -- is it expecting to 
receive the HTTP response code here?

If I paste the current httplib documentation code word-for-word (using 
the example site) it works...

Thanks for any help in advance!

[1] Broken code based on CURRENT DOCUMENTATION:

import httplib, urllib
def dirSearch(text):
     params = urllib.urlencode({'search_text':text,
                                'search_method':'long'})
     headers = {"Content-type": "application/x-www-form-urlencoded",
                "Content-length": '%d' % len(params),
                "Accept": "text/plain",
                "Host": "cnswww.cns.cwru.edu"}

     h = httplib.HTTPConnection("cnswww.cns.cwru.edu")
     h.request("POST", "/phone/phonebook/local/whois.cgi", headers=headers)
     h.send(params)
     r = h.getresponse()
     print r.status, r.reason
     d = r.read()
     print d
     h.close()

###############################################################################
[2] Traceback from above code:

 >>> dirSearch('beck')
200 OK

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#52>", line 1, in -toplevel-
     dirSearch('beck')
   File "G:\exogen\My Documents\Projects\Python\testdir.py", line 14, in 
dirSearch
     d = r.read()
   File "D:\Program Files\Python23\lib\httplib.py", line 389, in read
     return self._read_chunked(amt)
   File "D:\Program Files\Python23\lib\httplib.py", line 426, in 
_read_chunked
     chunk_left = int(line, 16)
ValueError: invalid literal for int(): MIME-version: 1.0

###############################################################################
[3] Working code based on DEPRECATED FUNCTIONS:

import httplib, urllib
def dirSearch(text):
     params = urllib.urlencode({'search_text': '%s' % text,
                                'search_method': 'long'})
     headers = {"Content-type": "application/x-www-form-urlencoded",
                "Content-length": '%d' % len(params),
                "Accept": "text/plain",
                "Host": "cnswww.cns.cwru.edu"}

     h = httplib.HTTP("cnswww.cns.cwru.edu")
     h.putrequest("POST", "/phone/phonebook/local/whois.cgi")
     for key in headers:
         h.putheader(key, headers[key])
     h.endheaders()
     h.send(params)
     reply, msg, hdrs = h.getreply()
     print reply
     d = h.getfile().read()
     print d

###############################################################################
[4] Partial result from above code:

MIME-version: 1.0



<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>CWRU Online Phonebook</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>


--
Brian Beck
Adventurer of the First Order


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 02:37:30 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 06:37:30 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4319.1096957126.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<41622FEB.1000300@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4319.1096957126.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Kir8d.3246$M05.721@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>>I'd like to store function and variables and of course objects in a form 
>>that can be easily read back into the program/script.
> 
> 
> Functions, no (security risk).

Yet somehow Python functions are serialized in a .pyc file.  ;)

It really depends on what the OP wants, but he doesn't
provide enough for us to know what problem he's trying to
solve, as compared to what technique he things is needed
to solve that problem.

For instance, writing a .py file lets you "store function and
variables ... in a form that can be easily read back ..."

> Anything that you would want to do with a static typed language, can be
> done with Python.

What about compile-time template metaprogramming like C++?
Parameterizing a list so that it only accepts ints?

Sorry, I'm being too much of a stickler now trying to
prove my point that many of these are non-trivial topics
that cannot by easily answered without basically redoing
work already done to create the documentation.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Oct  5 02:04:27 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 09:04:27 +0300
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7655p66qc.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Richard" == Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> writes:

    Richard> Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has
    Richard> the following support: *please answer to each
    Richard> individually, thanks*

Is that enough to pass the whole course, or are you going to ask for a
"solution for this simple program" soon?

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From agriff at tin.it  Tue Oct  5 16:42:50 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:42:50 GMT
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
References: <cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
	<Jdc7d.280819$4o.95007@fed1read01>
	<ijbrl0tfkraor6fe316aettvc0sqas3q8a@4ax.com>
	<du7y8ipv21m.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<mti3m0lncs2jcaeh3dbnqindal6mh7o1br@4ax.com>
	<du7sm8t4l9i.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <k4t5m09b4koi8lnb5gngf6rhmj759sjeup@4ax.com>

On 05 Oct 2004 11:33:29 +0300, Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com>
wrote:

>    Andrea> Ok, but when that happened ? Can you be more specific ?
>
>A good rule of thumb is, if one has sometime negative to say, and the
>way of saying it focuses on someone else's person rather than the
>issue as such, one is crossing the line.

Do you mean something like (for example):

  "I've seen hypocrisy in my life, but this ridiculous
   combination sure takes the prize!"

?

>I have zero interest in
>pursuing this issue any further, really, just wanted to point out that
>you were taking an approach that might have been much more common in
>some other newsgroup and therefore seemed acceptable.

I don't have any doubt you're tired with all this stuff...
however it would probaly have been way quicker instead of
writing a lot of general words just pointing out (I mean *cite*)
what is the passage of mines that you think was beyond the
acceptable limit.
 
>Since you are obviously (judging from your other messages) not a
>generic troll or otherwise "undesirable" material, it's easier for you
>and the atmosphere of the whole newsgroup if you tone down the
>approach a little bit.

Tone down what ? Do you mean my sarcastic message ?
I'm sorry, but if you expect me to:

1- Swallow without thinking any argument in a technical
   discussion
2- Swallow insults received for no reason

then I've to inform you that this is not going to happen
anytime soon. No matter who is the author of the dubious
argument, no matter who is the author of the insult.

If turning off your brain and your self respect is your
definition of peace and harmony, then please do so and be
happy with it; but this is not my philosophy.

If I appear silent it's probably because I decided that
the counterpart is not even worth a direct reply; it doesn't
mean I swallowed anything. When I've to acknowledge an error
of mines, I say that quite clearly (and quite happily also).

Andrea


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Fri Oct 29 11:59:36 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:59:36 -0700
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
	<mailman.5652.1099050368.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ueq45F2a9e6eU2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <6c6a52-r5t.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> a way to have some
> server-side "cookie" that identifies an incoming call as
> authenticated. That's not possible.

The standard pattern for doing that is having an xmlrpc call
that you supply username/password/other credentials to.  It
then responds with a pair of tokens.  You then use them as
part of the URL where usernames and passwords are usually
used.  For example:

   sp=xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://foo.example.com")
   c1,c2=sp.login("username", "password", "etc")

   sp=xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://%s:%s at foo.example.com" % (c1,c2))
   sp.DoSomething(1,2)
   sp.DoSomethingElse(3,4)

This will work fine with the current client side xmlrpclib.  If
you server side is written in Python then you will need to make
a derived request handler that grabs and verifies the authentication
headers before calling the intended routines (except for the login
function :-)

Roger
 




From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct 11 10:31:41 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 07:31:41 -0700
Subject: IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
References: <mailman.4079.1096469961.5135.python-list@python.org>	<2e37dc1.0410050515.b21eea3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4628.1097332620.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410110631.64f2103d@posting.google.com>

> documentation and now see the raiseExceptions variable. I presume that 
> I simply use
> logging.raiseExceptions = False
> after
> import logging

Yes.
 
> Random tests I have devised have not revealed this error but Random 
> input from others has generated the problem, usually after a burst of 
> activity when previously there has been no activity for several days. 
> Coincidence?

Perhaps not. It may be that the pipe breaks after a period of
inactivity, and subsequent activity shows up the break.

Best of luck,

Vinay


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 14:23:54 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:23:54 -0700
Subject: Some notes
In-Reply-To: <20041013103355.0931.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <5c882bb5.0410130130.590ad422@posting.google.com>
	<du7hdoz9but.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<20041013103355.0931.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <1097691835.12092.246.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 11:02 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> >     >> (I can't believe I am replying to someone with the email
> >     >> address bearophile 'bearophile')
> > 
> >     bearophile> I am learning, like everybody else.
> > 
> > He probably just thought that your email address is amusing. Which it
> > is, it the internetish neo-juvenile fashion. Laughing at such a name
> > is probably not the most mature thing to do, but some of us just can't
> > help it...
> 
> I wasn't laughing at the name.
> 
> Perhaps the original poster is an animal conservationist, concerned
> about humans encroaching on the environments of Black, Brown, Grizzly,
> etc., bears.  Perhaps it is something else.
> 
> I don't know, nor do I really want to know.
>  - Josiah

Well, I am certainly laughing at

> Thank you,
> a bear hug,
> bearophile

which I sincerely hope was meant in a humorous fashion, otherwise I too
am retreating to the "I don't want to know" camp.


Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Thu Oct 28 14:26:29 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:26:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <clrdkl$664$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> wrote:

> Is it correct to say that strong/weak typing does not make a difference 
> if one does not use any pointers (or adress-taking operator)?

You'll find a lack of consensus here on what's meant by "strong/weak
typing".  In Python there's no way to re-interpret the bits of a value
as if they were a different type.  For example, code like this is
impossible in Python:

  float x = 2.5;
  printf("%d\n", *(int*)&x);

> More concretely, I am thinking particularly of Python vs C++.
> So, are there any examples (without pointers, references, or adress-taking),
> which would have a different result in Python and in C++?

If I understand your question, I believe not; because Python doesn't
provide the low-level operators that would be necessary for it.


From vegeta.z at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 13:21:57 2004
From: vegeta.z at gmail.com (daniel narf)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:21:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Toward Python's future article
Message-ID: <loom.20041007T190729-298@post.gmane.org>


Hi i am sure most of you have read the article of Andrew Kuchling about focusing 
more in the standart library than language newFeatures/tweaking and probably i 
as many others would like to know what the python hackers/developers think about 
this proposal.Maybe this post is out of place but oh well..  

i am personaly very interested in improving the stdlib which is very messy in my 
opinion right now.

the article(several comments): 

http://www.amk.ca/diary/archives/cat_python.html#003382



From param at cs.wisc.edu  Sun Oct  3 23:54:18 2004
From: param at cs.wisc.edu (Paramjit Oberoi)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 22:54:18 -0500
Subject: ANN: cfgparse-0.1 - An alternative to ConfigParser
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.04.03.54.17.350342@cs.wisc.edu>

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~param/software/cfgparse/

cfgparse is a Python module that provides mechanisms for managing
configuration information. It is backward compatible with
ConfigParser, in addition to having the following features:
 
* Preserves structure of INI files: Order of sections & options,
  indentation (to some extent), comments, and blank lines are
  preserved when data is updated.
 
* More convenient than ConfigParser: Values can be accessed using
  dotted notation, or using container syntax (cfg[key]).
 
* Backward compatibility: Backward compatible implementations of
  ConfigParser, RawConfigParser, and SafeConfigParser are included
  that are API-compatible with the Python standard library. They
  pass all the unit tests in Python-2.3.4.
 
* Extensible: It is possible to add other configuration formats,
  and to convert between different formats (as long as the data
  models are compatible).
 
Bug reports/suggestions/comments welcome.
Contact: Paramjit Oberoi <param at cs.wisc.edu>



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Oct 19 18:30:33 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:30:33 -0600
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1glxart.nyjrdkvdbv0qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<20041019190851.GA6740@kostyrka.org>	<mailman.5190.1098212227.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glxart.nyjrdkvdbv0qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41759589.4020501@pythonapocrypha.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
>>Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:16:01AM -0700, Jonathan  Ellis wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Testing is good; preventing entire classes of errors from ever
>>>>happening at all is better, particularly when you get large.  Avoiding
>>>>connectedness helps, but that's not always possible.
>>>
>>>What classes of errors are completely avoided by "static typing" as
>>>implemented by C++ (Java)? 
[somebody before me wrote the above, but it was attributed to me - could have 
been my own fault while replying, but who knows...]

>>(2) much more common in code written by 
>>lazy/underexperienced developers who are already considered a liability,
> 
> No, I think you're wrong here.  Typos are just as frequent for just
> about all classes of coders, lazy or eager, experienced or not -- the
> eager experienced ones often use faster typing (nothing to do with
> static typing;-).

Hmm.. when I wrote that I was merely guessing at what "classes of errors" he was 
referring to, and I honestly didn't even consider typos. Instead I was thinking 
of cases where the programmer is reading too much into information returned from 
the compiler. Two specific instances I've encountered in the past came to mind:

a) Slopping casting - the attitude that casts are needed only when the compiler 
complains, and warnings/errors due to type mismatches are given a cast without 
much thought - the goal is to silence the compiler.

b) Sloppy refactoring - "I added a parameter to the method signature and 
recompiled. In each case where the compiler complained, I added the new 
parameter to the call until all instances were fixed".

Basically, they're cases where static typing appears to give an advantage in 
locating problems, but they are sometimes misleading (and therefore can 
_sometimes_ be a disadvantage if relied on inappropriately) and sometimes the 
remedy more involves helping the developer progress & improve (as such efforts 
yield greater fruits anyway).

>>More modern/advanced static type systems that let you actually get into
>>the semantics of the program (as opposed to just deciding which predefined
>>type bucket your data fits in) may help, but IMO the jury's still out on
>>them (partly due to complexity, and partly due to _when_ in the
>>development process they must be defined - perhaps that's the root problem
>>of some static type systems - they make you declare intent and semantics
>>when you know the _least_ about them! Consider the parallels to available
>>knowledge in compile-time versus run-time optimizations).
> 
> If you mean typesystems such as Haskell's or ML's, allowing extended
> inference (and, in Haskell's case, the wonder of typeclasses), I think
> you're being a bit unfair here.  You can refactor your types and
> typeclasses just as much as any other part of your code, so the "when
> they must be defined" seems a bit of a red herring to me

True enough - the "when" bit apples to the static type systems of e.g. C/C++ - 
where up front you have to specify more detail than you may have (what set of 
values might it have, how will it be used, does it ever need to behave like 
objects of a similar type, how do we represent "nothing", do we need to be able 
to differentiate between uninitialied and "not present", etc.), and refactoring 
later on can have interesting side-effects (not necessarily due to the typing 
system directly; rather, such a type system encourages programmers to 
prematurely think about things like saving memory by using a short vs an int or 
making sure a structure wastes the minimum possible number of bytes on 
alignment padding - later on when you better understand how the data is used and 
would like to refactor it, it can get messy trying to separate decisions that 
were made due to requirements versus those made for other reasons).

-Dave


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 08:54:29 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:54:29 -0200
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <864d370904101805542ffe8272@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:11:53 +0200, Daniel Dittmar
<daniel.dittmar at sap.corp> wrote:
> You must also consider the code that uses the iteration, at least if you
> want to walk the structure for multiple purposes
> 
> <snip>
>
> Compare also os.path.walk with os.walk.
> 
> Daniel
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Yes, that's a good point, and it's one of the reasons I tend to prefer
the generator now. But anyway, it's just me, or does the 'chained
yield' look ugly to someone else? It may be just a question of getting
used to it, but nevertheless it's bugging me...


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Oct 16 11:50:04 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:50:04 -0400
Subject: beginning index for generators
References: <200410160656.27323.kosh@aesaeion.com>
Message-ID: <ckrfv8$i38$1@sea.gmane.org>


"kosh" <kosh at aesaeion.com> wrote in message 
news:200410160656.27323.kosh at aesaeion.com...
>I was wondering if there is or there could be some way to pass a generator 
>an
> optional starting index

You can only directly pass arguments to the generator function that creates 
a generator.  Example:

def counter(current = 0):
  while True:
    yield current
    current += 1

However, you can indirectly pass arguments via a mutable object that is 
directly passed at initialization.

def counter(resetter):
  current = 0
  while True:
    if resetter[0]:
      current = resetter[1]
      resetter[0] = False
    yield current
    current += 1

myset = [True,10]
counts = counter(myset)
for i in counts:
  if i > 15: break
  print i
#prints 10 to 15

myset = [True,10]
counts = counter(myset)
for i in counts:
  if i > 15: break
  print i
# prints 10 to 15 AGAIN

One could easily extend resetter to include a stop as well as start value. 
One could also embed a generator like this in a class with a __getslice__ 
that resets resetter and calls the generator as needed to fill in the slice 
list.

Terry J. Reedy






From russblau at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 09:51:31 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:51:31 -0400
Subject: Calling a constructor by reference
References: <m37jq2fxdp.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <2skvurF1mh1b5U1@uni-berlin.de>

"Edwin Young" <edwin at bathysphere.org> wrote in message
news:m37jq2fxdp.fsf at localhost.localdomain...
>
> Hi,
>
> I know there must be a way to do this but the correct syntax eludes me.
>
> I want to write a method which I can pass different types to and have
> it construct them.
>
> I tried this:
>
> >>>
> class X:
>     def __init__(self):
>         pass
>
> def make_thing(type,*args):
>     return type(args)
>
> x = X()
> y = make_thing(X)
>
> print x, y
> >>>
>
> But get 'TypeError: __init__() takes exactly 1 argument (2
> given)'. Presumably X is treated as an unbound instance method?
>
> Also, the types I want to create inherit from an old-style class in a
> package, so I don't think I can make X a new-style class (if that's
> relevant).
>
> How should I go about this?

Hint:  what do you see if you run the following function?

>>> def show_args(type, *args):
        print args

>>> show_args()

You just need to change your constructor [__init__()] to accept the correct
number of arguments.


-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 25 08:28:09 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:28:09 +0200
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-functi
	on o verloading.
References: <mailman.5419.1098705834.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clirfl$5tr$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Doran_Dermot at emc.com wrote:

> Maybe I should change that to read "I prefer:" and "However, the second
> version feels more natural to myself" ;-)

Note that properties don't interfere with your favourite accessor method
style:

>>> class T(object):
...     def title(self, value=None):
...             if value is None:
...                     print "reading title"
...             else:
...                     print "setting title to", value
...     title = property(title, title)
...
>>> T().title
reading title
>>> T().title = "new title"
setting title to new title

Peter



From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Thu Oct 28 20:13:00 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 02:13:00 +0200
Subject: ANN: Snakelets 1.37 (simple-to-use web app server with dynamic
	pages)
Message-ID: <41818b0c$0$65124$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

I'm happy to say that Snakelets 1.37 is available.

This is mainly bug-fix release of my simple-to-use Python
web application server (no WSGI yet ;-)

1.37 contains two important security fixes regarding
user authorization and url-hacking. And a bunch of other
improvements (such as a redesigned manual).

You can download from http://snakelets.sourceforge.net
(go to the SF project site, and then the file section).

Enjoy,
--Irmen de Jong.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 17 20:13:32 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:13:32 -0400
Subject: Yahoo SMTP
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5094.1098056346.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cktd01+h6gp@eGroups.com>
	<mailman.5094.1098056346.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <J5ydna83ZOg3l-7cRVn-qA@powergate.ca>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Checking the source for smtplib.py, you must pass a port to
> smtplib.SMTP() if you pass a host, as it defaults to 0.

If you read just a tad farther, you'll see the line

     if not port: port = SMTP_PORT

where SMTP_PORT is of course 25...

-Peter


From ghum at gmx.net  Sat Oct  2 14:45:18 2004
From: ghum at gmx.net (Harald Armin Massa)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 11:45:18 -0700
Subject: Ubuntu Linux loves Python
References: <cjmc42$420$1@wheel2.two14.net>
	<TcudnSI9uOABJ8PcRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <5db4fffa.0410021045.69d078e@posting.google.com>

> > Apologies if this isn't news here - 

It is great news ...

just one thing to mention: ubutu linux AND it's dedication to Python
was allready announced on Europython 2004 in Goetheborg, Sweden.

Mark Shuttleworth (= first Python programmer in space) explained his
plans to initiate another Linux distribution (also knowing that there
is not really a shortage of Linux distributions)


To get important information earlier ... I recommend staying tuned to
http://www.europython.org - there will be one in 2005

Harald


From Doran_Dermot at emc.com  Tue Oct 26 09:27:08 2004
From: Doran_Dermot at emc.com (Doran_Dermot at emc.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:27:08 +0100
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-functi
	on o verloading.
Message-ID: <97B6410BE753D411894E00D0B77E6F7F018DCD16@neam2mx1.isus.emc.com>

Just for the hell of it I'll stick my neck out and say that my method
implementations still look easier for a newbie Python programmer to read
since there are fewer Python idioms involved.

Now that should solicit a few comments ;-)

Thanks to all who have helped me out on this question.  The whole discussion
(albeit a bit one sided) has been both fun and informative.

Cheers!!

Dermot

P.S.

I'm using Python because I don't think Java is that good!  Please go easy on
the "blue fire"!

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+doran_dermot=emc.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+doran_dermot=emc.com at python.org]On Behalf Of
aleaxit at yahoo.com
Sent: 26 October 2004 13:17
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Implementing class attribute access methods via
pseudo-functi on o verloading.


<Doran_Dermot at emc.com> wrote:
   ...
> It's interesting to note that you prefer code like: theProblem.title =
"The
> Title"
> 
> However, I wonder if people coming from the Java/C++ world prefer:
> theProblem.title( "The Title" )
> 
> Obviously the first version is less typing! However, the second version
> might feel more natural to Java/C++ programmers.  Just an observation!

If you want to accomodate Java crazies (with setFoo/getFoo manias,
universal there) you might...:

>>> class x(object):
...   def __getattr__(self, name):
...     if name.startswith('get') and name[3:4].isupper():
...        n = name[3:4].lower() + name[4:]
...        return lambda: getattr(self, n)
...     raise AttributeError, name

and whatever else.  Now, you can read any attribute of instances of x
with that silly syntax to your heart's contents.  E.g.:

c = x()
c.foo = 23
print c.getFoo()

There!  The ULTIMATE Java-Python bridge.  Now, at last, nothing will
impede Python from vying for the hearts and minds of Javaites.  (BTW: it
works just fine with properties, too).

The extension of this idea to methods such as setFoo is left as an
exercise to the reader, as is the trivial optimization of caching the
lambda into self, just in case it's repeatedly called.


Alex
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct 19 05:06:28 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:06:28 +0200
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
References: <mailman.5138.1098132727.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl2ldp$p5o$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> def warehouse(stock, factory=None):

[snip documentation]

>     if not hasattr(stock, 'next'):
>         stock = iter(stock)

Note that unconditional use of iter() is usually harmless:

>>> it = iter("abc")
>>> it is iter(it)
True
   
>     def pull():
>         """An inner generator from itertools.warehouse()."""
>         for item in stock:
>             yield item
>         
>         if factory is None:
>             try:
>                 local_factory = item.__class__
>             except NameError:
>                 raise ValueError("Empty sequence and no factory
> supplied.")
>         else:
>             local_factory = factory
>         
>         while True:
>             yield local_factory()
>     
>     return pull(), stock
> 
> 
> What do you all think? I've been using a class-based variant of this in
> production code (business app) for six months now, and have found it
> extremely helpful. I saw a pointer to itertools today and figured a
> function-based version might be nice to include in that module someday.

Most of the building blocks for the warehouse() are already there, but you
didn't use them, oddly enough.
So here comes a variant written in terms of current (2.4) itertools:

>>> from itertools import *
>>> def peek(iterable):
...     a, b = tee(iterable)
...     try:
...             return a, b.next()
...     except StopIteration:
...             raise ValueError("cannot peek into an empty iterable")
...
>>> iterable = iter("abc")
>>> iterable, first = peek(iterable)
>>> factory = first.__class__
>>> data = range(10)
>>> for a, b in izip(data, chain(iterable, starmap(factory, repeat(())))):
...     print a, repr(b)
...
0 'a'
1 'b'
2 'c'
3 ''
4 ''
5 ''
6 ''
7 ''
8 ''
9 ''

Ok, I see I'm suffering from a functional overdose :-)
I would have suggested chain(iterable, starmap(factory, repeat(()))) for
inclusion in the collection of recipes in the documentation, but upon
checking the development docs I see that Raymond Hettinger has already been
there, done that with the starmap() part.

So now you can do

chain(iterable, repeatfunc(factory))

after putting a copy of these recipes into your site-packages. Why aren't
they already there, btw?

The only extra your warehouse() has to offer is the (last) item's class as
the default factory for the padding items. I don't think that is needed
often enough to warrant the inclusion in the itertools.

Peter



From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  8 21:36:46 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 18:36:46 -0700
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4538.1097192656.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8f17f4bc.0410080849.51fbdcfa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62@posting.google.com>

> >You can set the text widget to be "disabled" to
> > keep the user from changing the contents.

How? I tryed putting diabled in there and disabled=yes and
disabled='yes'. None of them worked :(


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct  4 09:14:57 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:14:57 -0400
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
In-Reply-To: <4f0a9fdb.0410032146.6ac9055f@posting.google.com>
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
	<4f0a9fdb.0410032146.6ac9055f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4KidnW1TL8hN0fzcRVn-vg@powergate.ca>

Miki Tebeka wrote:
> 3. When asked about time estimation say something like "in C/C++/Java"
>    it'll be around two weeks, in Python I can do it in less than one"

Please don't do this without taking the time to become proficient
enough with Python that you could *demonstrate* how quickly you
can program with it.  Otherwise you'll look like you've been sucked
in by hype and will lose credibility.

I and others have found at least a three-times speedup using Python,
but other than reporting this as "anecdotal evidence" you'd be well
advised not to hype it too much until your own team (or you) are in
a position to put your fingers where your mouth was... (or whatever
the appropriate phrase would be :-).

> 5. "Be there first". Make a fast prototype that does most of the *visible*
>    work in Python as fast as you can. This way you'll have a strong
>    argument to continue with Python.

Yes!


From bruno at octantis.com.br  Sun Oct 24 10:23:53 2004
From: bruno at octantis.com.br (Bruno R. Dias)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:23:53 -0300
Subject: OT: Interesting coding idea
In-Reply-To: <clfo9n$shk$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <2tvup4F24iddjU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<9ckln0tm2ubr7t8hafe27p66kfileceabu@4ax.com>
	<2u0bd8F23g8afU1@uni-berlin.de> <clfo9n$shk$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2u1onbF25mcelU1@uni-berlin.de>

Malcolm wrote:
<snip>
> An interesting project would be a Fibonnaci computer. Instead of using a
> exponent-based system (binary, decimal, hex etc) you represent numbers as
> Fibonnaci sequences. This has some interesting properties, for instance
> there are never two consecutive 1s in a valid number.

It would be a bitch to code for such a machine, but it sure would be 
interesting.

-- 
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/E/L d-- s+:+ a--- C++ UL+ P--- L++>+++ E W++ N+ o+ K++ w---
!O M-- V--PS++ PE++ Y>+ PGP>+ t++(+++) 5? X R+ tv@ b+++@ DI++++ D--- G+ 
e- h! r-- y
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


From abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Thu Oct 14 08:36:58 2004
From: abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Ajay)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:36:58 +1000
Subject: UDP server socket
Message-ID: <1097757418.416e72ea89d65@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>

hi!

whats the maximum number of datagrams that can queue up on a UDP server
socket? or is that system dependent?
i have some code that iteratively handles datagrams, and while testing it,
i noticed that it responds to at most 3 datagrams (i tried sending 4, 6, 8
and 10 datagrams / second)
is that a system dependent feature or can i change that (i didn't see
anything in the manual)

thanks

cheers






----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Tue Oct  5 08:29:42 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:29:42 GMT
Subject: Search and replace in a text.
Message-ID: <Wsw8d.17950$YT3.11021@fe2.texas.rr.com>

On 10/1, Dong Ge wrote:
>I'm a new beginner of Python. I want to convet
> "Text 1" to "Text 2"
> below. How to do it?
>
>__
>Dong Ge
>2004.10.01
>
>Text 1:
>...
>Layer: Tv-Frame
>Flags: 0x0
>Attr: 1  (replace "1" with contents of previous
>          "Layer" line - "Tv-Frame")
<snip>

This kind of adaptive search/replace is a good option for pyparsing
transformString.  Using this mode, one only needs to define the patterns to
be matched, and in the case of substitution, return the desired output
string in the appropriate parseAction routine.

--------------------------
from pyparsing import *

# define relevant grammar strings
layerDefn = "Layer:" + restOfLine
attrDefn = "Attr:" + Word(nums)
searchPatterns = ( layerDefn | attrDefn )

# initialize layerData in case we get an Attr before a Layer
layerData = "<ERROR> no layer found"

# define parse action to run when encounter "Layer"
def saveLayerData(strg,loc,tokens):
    global layerData
    layerData = tokens[1].strip()
layerDefn.setParseAction( saveLayerData )

# define parse action to run when encounter "Attr"
def pasteLayerData(strg,loc,tokens):
    return "Attr: " + layerData
attrDefn.setParseAction( pasteLayerData )

# test results
testdata = """
Layer: Tv-Frame
Flags: 0x0
Attr: 1
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-pic
Flags: 0x2300
Attr: 1
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-shell
Flags: 0x0
Attr: 1
Focus Point: 0 0 0
"""

print searchPatterns.transformString( testdata )
--------------------------
(output)
Layer: Tv-Frame
Flags: 0x0
Attr: Tv-Frame
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-pic
Flags: 0x2300
Attr: Tv-pic
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-shell
Flags: 0x0
Attr: Tv-shell
Focus Point: 0 0 0



-- Paul McGuire
Download pyparsing at http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net





From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  8 08:39:00 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:39:00 -0400
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <20041007204539.ED55.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <mailman.4522.1097173984.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<lNm9d.872$lp6.537@okepread01>
	<20041007204539.ED55.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <41668A64.1000204@holdenweb.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>>If you want to use file primitives to read the value back, just create 
>>another one:
>>
>>inpt = StringIO.StringIO(firstStringIO.getvalue())
>>
>>then you can read the printed output from inpt just like a file.
> 
> 
> Or even:
> 
>  firstStringIO.seek(0)
> 
Yup, actually rather better than my hurried attempt.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119



From Moiz.Golawala at ge.com  Fri Oct 22 11:36:58 2004
From: Moiz.Golawala at ge.com (Golawala, Moiz M (GE Infrastructure))
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:36:58 -0400
Subject: How to get an encoding a value?
Message-ID: <CE90A4CF2E5E9C4890AE5D9D8A5EFAE301189789@CINMLVEM10.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Hi all, 

I have a some data is encoded into something thing. I want to find out the encoding of that piece of data. For example 
s = u"somedata"
I want to do something like 
ThisIsTheEncodingOfS = s.getencoding()

is there are method that tell me that it is unicode value if I provide it with a unicode string?


Thanks
Moiz Golawala



From no at spam.please  Mon Oct 11 15:30:57 2004
From: no at spam.please (Doug Holton)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:30:57 -0500
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <JcmdnQnFT5NhH_fcRVn-tg@giganews.com>
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
	<MNCdnR9olpAhWvTcRVn-pg@comcast.com>
	<JcmdnQnFT5NhH_fcRVn-tg@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <V8SdnRfq9bLtQvfcRVn-vg@comcast.com>

Istvan Albert wrote:

> Doug Holton wrote:
> 
> 
>> Like I said in the first sentence of my earlier message:
>> "I thought I'd share it here since there has been so much interest for 
>> similar projects like IronPython."
> 
> 
> What I referred to was that the reason IronPython got so much
> interest in this group is not because it is a *python-like*
> language on the CLI but because it aims to be *python* on
> the CLI. Big difference IMO.
> 
> If you'd make your language a valid python implementation, that could
> also access .NET components (a la python) it would
> instantly become a bazillion times more popular and talked about.
> 
> A "hey, it looks like python but it is not really python"
> approach has little chance of capturing a python programmer's
> imagination. It just muddies the water and sows confusion among
> potential adopters.
> 
> this is just an opinion, and I've been wrong many times before...

Right, I respect your opinion.  What you want is IronPython, definitely.
It is meant to be an exact clone of Python but for .NET/Mono.

Just to make it clear for others (because it took me a while to really 
understand this), python does everything at run-time.  For example, you 
can add or delete methods from a class instance on the fly.  Boo, 
however is more like C# and does most of its work at compile-time 
(although there are some run-time features like duck typing).  That 
makes it faster (100 times faster on a recent Mandelbrot test), but in 
some respects not as flexible as python.  So there is a trade-off.

I was going to mention this before, but didn't.  Wouldn't it be neat to 
actually implement Python in boo?  I've been wondering if boo could 
support different levels of dynamic late-binding, ranging from:
-completely static, compile-time (already have that)
-duck typing for individual variables (already implemented)
-a duck typing class for runtime customization of a class and control 
over duck typing (see http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/BOO-19)
-a modified compiler pipeline mode that interprets everything as runtime 
instead of static (possible, see for example the booish interactive 
interpreter)


From mauriceling at acm.org  Wed Oct 20 00:45:42 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:45:42 GMT
Subject: Python + Java knowledge
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5169.1098194201.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5169.1098194201.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4175ed72$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>

Frohnhofer, James wrote:
> I have the same problem.  My 9 to 5 is using Java 1.1 (actually Visual J++) --
> don't ask . . .
> 
> That wasn't a problem in terms of skills and knowledge (and fun), after I got
> my kids to bed I would fire up IntelliJ and work on any of my pet Java
> projects.  But now that I've got the Python bug, I'm afraid my Java is
> slipping.  I haven't even tried out 1.5.
> 
> I was thinking of moving to Jython for my pet projects, but Jython appears to
> be 2 minor versions behind straight Python.
> 
> I don't have a solution or advice, only commiseration.

I am amazed about people like Eric Raymond that can pick up and use a 
dozen language, how did they do it? It is equally amazing that 
programming jobs these days require half a dozen programming languages 
known. I came with a background in Pascal and bits of C, and some xBase 
languages, then picked up Java and Python. Considering that my 1st 
bachelors degree is in biochemistry, I may be proud already...

Programming itself does not tax on the knowledge of a language to its 
fullest but debugging does. Sometimes when you email to API developers 
for help on that API, they may come back with a "that may be a <your 
language> specific problem, it works out well with <my language>." 
Someone did say this "citizenship is an abitrary institution whose main 
objective is to discriminate"...... From the other end of the world, I 
applaud EU for tearing down country barriers.

As mentioned in my post on 'reverse jython', I am envisioning the day 
where mixed language programming is a reality.

maurice


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 08:54:22 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:54:22 +0200
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm9a9j.s0b279yqpnlvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5501.1098793044.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm9pb3.1yag8we12wpgksN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
   ...
> > Of course, this has nothing to do with silly and arbitrary bounds such
> > as 2**31-1.  But constraint checking should not necessarily be ruled out
> > as a generally helpful technique.
> 
> Not at all.  I do quite a bit of database programming and use
> constraints (foreign keys, unique indices, etc) extensively.  The

Yep, and besides such 'structural' constraints even the simple kind of
check such as "this number is alway between X and Y" may to a lesser
extent come in handy.

> concept is also in widespread use in GUI programming libraries for
> controls that deal with user input (e.g. masked input controls).  In
> fact, most controls present in a GUI implicitly constrain user input
> (menus, buttons, etc).

A different case, IMHO.  An input/'edit' box with inherent checks is a
bit closer.

> Of course what you describe above can be done now using functions and
> derived classes, but it would certainly be interesting to have a general
> (and concise) way of describing constraints within the language itself.

Functions are in general the proper way to check, but having to
explicitly call the checking function each time a change may have
occurred gets old fast.

What I was musing about is (well, half of it) is easy to implement if
you're using qualified names rather than barenames -- each assignment to
a.x may easily be made to go through a setter-function that calls an
appropriate checker function.  Attaching similar setter-functions to
barenames is a very alien concept to Python today, but in a sense the
difference could be seen as mere syntax sugar.

The other half of the problem has to do with mutables, and ensuring a
checker function (on object invariants, if you will) runs after each
mutation -- not all that new a notion, just a part of design by contract
(people always focus on preconditions and postconditions and appear to
forget invariants, which are just as crucial;-).

I'm not sure there's a "grand unification" between these halves just
waiting to happen.  Surely, though, a little add-on package making it
easy to add checker functions and providing a few typical such checkers
might be of some help.  If the checkers could be easily disabled at the
flip of a switch (say the debug flag;-) they might even help by being
potentially-executable specifications of programmer intention (much like
DbC helps in part exactly because it _can_ be disabled that way;-).

Guess I'm mostly musing on the general issue and the 2**31-1 silliness
was just a spark that lit some waiting tinder in my mind;-).


Alex


From nelson at monkey.org  Tue Oct 19 18:56:45 2004
From: nelson at monkey.org (Nelson Minar)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:56:45 GMT
Subject: md5 and large files
References: <mailman.5128.1098124728.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl19dr$nqo$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<41743897$0$24525$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<2tl2r4F20u7baU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cpaacui8ggk.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>

Tobias Pfeiffer <me at privacy.net> writes:
> I have no clue about what the md5 algorithm works like, but I'd
> think one could prove that with an number large enough, every hash
> occurs twice. At last, md5 is not random.

MD5 is random, and a very strong form of random at that. But yes,
the same 128 bit hash will occur for different inputs. The trick is
that it's nearly impossible to construct an input that produces a
given hash, or even to produce collisions. For more, see here:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Md5

PS: I was wrong when I said that a native md5sum would be
significantly faster than Python version. It is a bit faster, but not
much. Both the native program and the Python program are going to
spend all their CPU time in the native-code MD5 calculation function.



From bulliver at badcomputer.no-ip.com  Tue Oct  5 18:59:25 2004
From: bulliver at badcomputer.no-ip.com (Darren Kirby)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:59:25 -0700
Subject: binary numbers
In-Reply-To: <E62dnZKZl9wKvP7cRVn-gw@comcast.com>
References: <cjv58g$q5i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<E62dnZKZl9wKvP7cRVn-gw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <200410051559.30990.bulliver@badcomputer.no-ip.com>

quoth the Larry Bates:
> Integers are stored in memory as binary.
>
> x=5
>
> stores 5 in x in binary form.
>

>>> x=5
>>> x
5
>>>

 I think our friend is looking for a module or function that turns 5 into 101 
(or perhaps 00000101)

Brad, have a look here:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/219300

-d
-- 
Part of the problem since 1976
http://badcomputer.no-ip.com
Get my public key from 
http://keyserver.linux.it/pks/lookup?op=index&search=bulliver
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972 
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From andreas at kostyrka.org  Thu Oct  7 03:30:31 2004
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:30:31 +0200
Subject: 2 Newbie questions.
In-Reply-To: <Tl49d.425544$8_6.322047@attbi_s04>
References: <Tl49d.425544$8_6.322047@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <20041007073031.GA17328@kostyrka.org>

On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 05:19:47AM +0000, Len Sumnler wrote:
> Hi All
> 
> I am running SuSe Linux ver. 9.0. I have written the famous "Hello 
> World" program and want to run it as an executable.  I have searched the 
> net and performed chmod +x mypython.py and added as the first line of my 
> program #!/usr/bin/env python.  When I try to run the program as follows
> $ mypython.py I get the error message of,
> "bash: mypython.py: command not found".  What am i doing wrong.
Try: ./mypython.py
And if that works, type: echo $PATH

Andreas


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Oct 13 09:35:06 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:35:06 -0400
Subject: locks
In-Reply-To: <qa-dnWDkDKi-uPDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.4835.1097670275.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qa-dnWDkDKi-uPDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <416D2F0A.5040302@bellsouth.net>

Peter L Hansen wrote:
<snip>

> Cliff, do you have any references, or even personal experience to
> relate about anything on which you comment above?
>
> In my experience, and to my knowledge, Python threading *is*
> that easy (ignoring higher level issues such as race conditions
> and deadlocks and such), and the GIL *does* do exactly what Diez
> suggests, and you will *not* get tracebacks nor (again, ignoring
> higher level issues) mangled data.
>
> You've tentatively upset my entire picture of the CPython (note,
> CPython only) interpreter's structure and concept.  Please tell
> me you were going a little overboard to protect a possible
> newbie from himself or something.
>
> -Peter

I seem to remember a posting a while ago that talked about certain 
"activities" generating more than one bytecode operation and were 
therefore not threadsafe.  Maybe I'm remembering wrong.  I can't find 
the posting and I can't remember what data types it was talking about.  
I found this old one about += not being thread safe because it generates 
more than one bytecode:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&threadm=3adn6.3087%24TW.15865%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpython%2Bbytecode%2Bthread%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1%26selm%3D3adn6.3087%2524TW.15865%2540tor-nn1.netcom.ca%26rnum%3D3

Here's a plus equal function def with its respective bytecode operations:

In [33]: def plus_eq(num):
   ....:     num += 1
   ....:     return num
   ....:

In [34]: dis.dis(plus_eq)
  2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (num)
              3 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
              6 INPLACE_ADD
              7 STORE_FAST               0 (num)

  3          10 LOAD_FAST                0 (num)
             13 RETURN_VALUE
             14 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
             17 RETURN_VALUE


Looks like there is an add then a store, so there is a chance for 
multiple threads to mangle this one.


Here's the definition of an append function with its respective bytecode 
operations:

In [35]: def list_append(l):
   ....:     l.append(1)
   ....:


In [38]: dis.dis(list_append)
  2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (l)
              3 LOAD_ATTR                1 (append)
              6 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
              9 CALL_FUNCTION            1
             12 POP_TOP
             13 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
             16 RETURN_VALUE


I don't know enough about the bytecode operations to tell exactly what 
is going on.  I guess if it's doing the append in one bytecode 
operation, it's threadsafe.  If someone could chime in who can read the 
runes of bytecode ops, that could settle the matter.

Jeremy Jones

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From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Fri Oct 22 03:07:00 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:07:00 GMT
Subject: Recursive Str?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5297.1098428507.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <p42ed.835$oI6.618@trndny03>
	<mailman.5297.1098428507.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ok2ed.7210$Ug4.193@trndny01>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> Were you just looking for this behavior, or were you asking why it's __repr__ 
> and not __str__?
> 
> Steve

Actually, it seems I'm confusing __str__ with __repr__. Now things make 
sense. Thanks for the clarification.


From claird at lairds.us  Fri Oct  1 12:08:04 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:08:04 GMT
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<MJednUj3F8J40MDcRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4176.1096636511.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hfa032-go9.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.4176.1096636511.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Neil Benn  <benn at cenix-bioscience.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>    Good to see that you didn't use ActiveX (if one more company 
>_boasts_ that their equipment comes with 'industry standard' ActiveX I 
>think I'm going to cry)!!  Believe it or not I still have to interact 
			.
			.
			.
The best thing about software in process control:  I've
yet to hear any vendor talk about how .Net is an "industry
standard".


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Oct 14 18:08:14 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:08:14 -0500
Subject: ANN: curses-extra 0.2
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.14.21.52.29.434183@cut.me.sideralis.net>
References: <pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050@cut.me.sideralis.net>
	<4edc17eb.0410141118.6d3ac74d@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.10.14.21.52.29.434183@cut.me.sideralis.net>
Message-ID: <20041014220814.GA2475@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 11:52:35PM +0200, Riccardo Galli wrote:
> In first place because I can't find info about F-bot. What should I search
> for?

I found it because I happened to know it was spelled "effbot":

http://effbot.org/zone/console-index.htm

> Do you (or others) know what is the best module available for console
> graphic in DOS ?

Nope.  Wouldn't touch it with a pole of arbitrary length.

Jeff
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From andreas at kostyrka.org  Mon Oct 25 16:09:09 2004
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:09:09 +0200
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
In-Reply-To: <8omdnbg6zNc00uHcRVn-iA@giganews.com>
References: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8omdnbg6zNc00uHcRVn-iA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <20041025200909.GB28024@kostyrka.org>

On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 08:58:27PM -0400, Istvan Albert wrote:
> Christian Tismer wrote:
> 
> >I would love to publish Stackless 3.1, of course.
> >Also I know that there is some inherent bug in it.
> 
> This is not a "Paid Research Project" this is
> called "Bug Bounty".
For "paid work" it's not even that well paid ;)

Andreas


From rtilley at vt.edu  Sun Oct 17 12:34:07 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:34:07 -0400
Subject: md5 and large files
Message-ID: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I have some large files (between 2 & 4 GB) that I want to do a few 
things with. Here's how I've been using the md5 module in Python:

                 original = file(path + f, 'rb')
                 data = original.read(4096)
                 original.close()
                 verify = md5.new(data)
                 print verify.hexdigest(), f

Is reading the first 4096 bytes of the files and calculating the md5 sum 
based on that sufficient for uniquely identifying the files or am I 
going about this totally wrong? Any advice or ideas appreciated.


From james.frohnhofer at csfb.com  Wed Oct 13 15:34:59 2004
From: james.frohnhofer at csfb.com (Frohnhofer, James)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:34:59 +0100
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
Message-ID: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C616E6@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>

While I can't confirm your figures, I couldn't agree with your conclusions
more.  Simply put, lambda is intention revealing in a way that a function def
cannot be.  Further, the greatest cost savings is in program maintenance,
where lambda guarantees that a change I make will be local.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org]On
> Behalf Of Clark C. Evans
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 3:09 PM
> To: Jeff Shannon
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:47:56AM -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> | Except that the Python philosophy is that overall, the 
> greatest clarity 
> | is achieved by having a single obvious way to do things.
> 
> When doing coding that uses alot of callbacks, use of lambda for
> tiny, nameless, single-use expressions is the "single obvious way to
> do something".
> 
> Assume for a moment the following programming costs:
> 
>   2m  Minting a name, that is, finding a name that is not 'foo'
>       which semantically adds to the readability and maintainability
>       of the code.
>         
>   30s Verifying that a function name is not used more than once to 
>       verify that changing its definition, or if it is reused, 
>       making sure all the places where a change would affect is OK.
> 
> In one of my files, I've got 20 or so lambdas, typically only a few
> characters to plug-in a computation.  You're asking me to pay a 40
> minute price just to mint names in this file?  Then, I've had, over
> the past year about 20 edits on that file, some of which change a
> few of these lambdas, say 2 changes per edit on average.  That's
> another 20 minutes.  So, over the last year, in this one file alone,
> not having lambdas would have cost me an additional hour of time!
> I've got 2 largish projects, each averaging about 20 files, so
> that's about 40 hours of time chewed up with small efficiency hits.
> Or, about $4,000 of billable time.   I'd rather keep the money or
> take a vacation, thank you very much.
> 
> I use Python beacuse it is a horribly efficient language for me to
> write software with; it is efficient beacuse I have the flexibiltiy
> to use several different constructs depending on which is more
> clearly expresses the intent of the developer. While lambda is a
> small part of this effiency, it is a factor.  It clearly expresses a
> simple, nameless single chunk of code that is never reused.
> 
> Propose another construct that has these features, and I'll gladly
> use it instead of lambda.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Clark
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

==============================================================================
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From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 23:44:49 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 20:44:49 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<_aadnTCr7PWKYeHcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>
	<940ee3e8.0410251927.38347d92@posting.google.com>
	<Z6kfd.18413$SW3.4432@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410261944.3b1f89e6@posting.google.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<Z6kfd.18413$SW3.4432 at fed1read01>...
> kartik wrote:
> 
> > Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<_aadnTCr7PWKYeHcRVn-rg at powergate.ca>...
> >  
> > 
> >>Do you feel strongly enough about the quality of your code to write
> >>automated tests for it?  Or are you just hoping that one tiny class
> >>of potential bugs will be caught for you by this feature of the
> >>language?
> > 
> > 
> > 1)catching overflow bugs in the language itself frees u from writing
> > overflow tests.
> 
> That seems to me to be a bit like saying you don't need to do any 
> engineering calculations for your bridge because you'll find out if it's 
> not strong enough when it falls down.

i was inaccurate. what i meant was that overflow errors provide a
certain amount of sanity checking in the absence of explicit testing -
& do u check every assignment for bounds?

> > 2)no test (or test suite) can catch all errors, so language support 4
> > error detection is welcome.
> 
> Yes, but you appear to feel that an arbitrary limit on the size of 
> integers will be helpful [...] Relying on hardware overflows as error 
> detection is pretty poor, really.

i'm not relying on overflow errors to ensure correctness. it's only a
mechanism that sometimes catches bugs - & that's valuable.

> > 3)overflow detection helps when u dont have automated tests 4 a
> > particular part of your program.
> > 
>  But writing such tests would help much more.

agreed, but do u test your code so thoroughly that u can guarantee
your code is bug-free. till then, overflow errors help.

-kartik


From rob.schmersel at mbox301.swipnet.se  Fri Oct 15 00:17:54 2004
From: rob.schmersel at mbox301.swipnet.se (Rob Schmersel)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:17:54 +0200
Subject: ANN: curses-extra 0.2
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.14.21.52.29.434183@cut.me.sideralis.net>
References: <pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050@cut.me.sideralis.net>
	<4edc17eb.0410141118.6d3ac74d@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.10.14.21.52.29.434183@cut.me.sideralis.net>
Message-ID: <2t91o2F1s119iU1@uni-berlin.de>

Riccardo Galli wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:18:34 -0700, Michele Simionato wrote:
> 
> 
>>Riccardo Galli <riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050 at cut.me.sideralis.net>...
>>
>>>First official release :)
>>>
>>>curses-extra offers various widgets written using curses module.
>>>
>>
>>I always wanted something like that!
>>I wish I had the time to try it out ...
>>Question: would it be very difficult to run it on Windows using the F-bot console 
>>module as a curses replacement?
>>
>>           Michele Simionato
> 
> 
> I really don't know.
> In first place because I can't find info about F-bot. What should I search
> for?
> Do you (or others) know what is the best module available for console
> graphic in DOS ?
> 
Well, there is a port of PD curses available (wincurses), but that one 
seems hard to get nowadays.
Alternatively you can try: http://flangy.com/dev/python/curses/

/Rob


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 22 22:24:06 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:24:06 -0700
Subject: Can Python run on the Internet
In-Reply-To: <c718a6cf.0410221730.2e95000c@posting.google.com>
References: <cl58ko$2l0$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<c718a6cf.0410221730.2e95000c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1098498247.4059.24.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 18:30 -0700, Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
> EMBARSSINGLY INCORRECTLY!

Embarssingly indeedly.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 14 10:35:08 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:35:08 +0200
Subject: calling another script
References: <20041013183450.29660.00005863@mb-m16.aol.com>
Message-ID: <ckm2mp$hst$1@sea.gmane.org>

"LutherRevisited" wrote:

> This is in reference to my email project, I'd like to be able to call another
> script to display html.  I have written something for that with WxHTML called
> Viewer, I'm wanting to know how I go about making it so I could do something
> like Import Viewer *, and then call the other script's methods from within my
> original script

did you read the "Modules" section in the tutorial?

    http://docs.python.org/tut/node8.html

</F> 





From jonathan at gennick.com  Fri Oct 22 13:27:50 2004
From: jonathan at gennick.com (Jonathan Gennick)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:27:50 -0400
Subject: Need help locating Python Cookbook contributors
Message-ID: <9agin0dmvolq8ap678bu2uo1fn3kfrv4ff@4ax.com>

Alex Martelli, Anna Ravenscroft, and I are trying to locate the
following people, whose Actionstate Python Cookbook recipes we are
wishing to use in the second, printed edition of the Python Cookbook. 

Alexander Semenov 
Chris Perkins 
David Benjamin 
Doug Hudgeon 
Gregor Rayman 
Hemanth Sethuram 
Ian Bollinger 
Kevin Parks
Larry Price
Matthew Shomphe
ParzAspen Aspen 
Raymond Hettinger 
Richard Philips 
Scott Daniels 
Steven Cummings 
Tom Good 

If you *are* one of these people, or if you know how to contact any of
them, please get in touch with either Alex  Martelli
(aleaxit at yahoo.com ) or myself. We would greatly appreciate it.

Best regards,

Jonathan Gennick
Editor, O'Reilly Media
906.387.1698   mailto:jgennick at oreilly.com


From mediocre_person at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 12 21:28:45 2004
From: mediocre_person at hotmail.com (Mediocre Person)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:28:45 -0500
Subject: Python control of desktop properties
Message-ID: <416c8404$1_3@alt.athenanews.com>

Hello, all.

I'm teaching Python for the first time to some high school students, and 
it's going well--Tomorrow's lesson: I'm going to show them how to use a 
list comprehension to simplify a task.

One of my students is interested in using Python to control his 
(Windows) desktop, and wants to write a program to change the desktop 
background or wallpaper. I told him I'd look into this, but I've had to 
admit defeat.

Can someone point me in the right direction, possibly post the simplest 
Python program that can accomplish this. I understand this won't be 
portable. At school, we use Win98SE; the student in question is using 
XPHome at home, and I typically use Gentoo Linux/KDE 3.3. If there were 
a single solution that would address all three environments, I'd be... 
well, shocked.

Merci beaucoup,

Nick.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 05:50:38 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:50:38 -0300
Subject: correct way to detect container type
In-Reply-To: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <864d37090410070250210881d2@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:30:22 +0100, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
> I seem often to allow list/tuple arguments to be a singleton. This leads to code
> of the form
> 
> if type(arg) not in (type(()),type([])): arg = [arg]
> 
> or alternatively
> 
> from type import ListType, TupleType
> _seqTypes = ListType, TupleType
> ......
> if type(arg) not in _seqTypes: ....
> 
> is there a 'best' way to do this?

Depending upon the way you're using your sequence types, why don't you
check for __getitem__? As far as I'm aware, it's all that is needed to
support for loops. In some cases __len__ may also be needed. The
advantage is that you will accept any user defined type that supports
the sequence interface.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Thu Oct  7 16:27:37 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:27:37 -0400
Subject: Resolved: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <41658895.7020906@po-box.mcgill.ca>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<DaKdnbgpTNU0gvjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<41658895.7020906@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Message-ID: <4165A6B9.3070502@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Brian van den Broek said unto the world upon 2004-10-07 14:19:
> 
> So, the docs don't seem entirely up to date nor consistent. But I'm 
> working on working it out. (If I don't get it soon, time to go bug the 
> moin-moin people.)
> 
> Tanks again for the help, folks, and I hope the account above might help 
> someone in the future, too.
> 
> Best to all,
> 
> Brian vdB

Hi all,

thanks to all who responded to my posts.

A Moin-moin standalone installation turned out to not be hard at all.

It was just a matter of following/sensibly reconciling the instructions on
 
<http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnInstalling_2fInfrastructureOnWin32>, 
 
<http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnInstalling_2fWikiInstanceOnWin32>, 
and <http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnInstalling_2fStandAloneOnWin32>

(If *I* could do it, pretty much anyone could!)

Now I've got to stop playing with my shinny new toy and do some actual work!

Best,

brian vdB



From jhub at gwdg.here_simple_one_dot.de  Wed Oct 13 10:49:27 2004
From: jhub at gwdg.here_simple_one_dot.de (Jochen Hub)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:49:27 +0200
Subject: convert string to list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4833.1097669719.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
	<mailman.4833.1097669719.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckjf9n$13ob$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>

>>
>>thescript.py ["A","B","C"]
> 
> 
> You can use eval for this.  Better, you could simply pass your list as a
> series of arguments from bash:

I tried with eval...simply using

thelist=eval(argv[1])

it didn't work :-(, I got the error message

   File "./findCenter.py", line 64, in ?
     print eval(sys.argv[1])
   File "<string>", line 0, in ?
NameError: name 'A' is not defined

> 
> #!/bin/bash
> myscript.py A B C

The problem is that I want to pass one or two lists to the script, so it 
should be able to distinguish between

thescript ["A","B"] ["C","D",E"]
thescript ["A","B","C"] ["D",E"]
thescript ["A","B","C","D",E"]


From golux at comcast.net  Fri Oct 15 16:03:51 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:03:51 -0400
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
In-Reply-To: <ckp90u$s9l$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>	<416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>	<mailman.4998.1097833203.5135.python-list@python.org>	<du7ekjz3lly.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>	<ckp6fb$gvi$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>	<du7sm8f24h4.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp90u$s9l$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <41702D27.6010108@comcast.net>

Jarek Zgoda wrote:
> Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> pisze:
>>   Jarek> Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> pisze:
>>
>>   >> This Qt licensing thing is way too messy, I'm not surprised
>>   >> that so many developers are doing their best to avoid it...
>>
>>   Jarek> No, it isn't. It's GNU GPL. What do you consider unclear?
>>
>>Isn't it just the Unix/X11 version that is GPL/QPL dual licensed?
> 
> Yes, it is. In case of Eric3 too.
> 
> Windows versions are named, royalty-free, commercial licenses. 
> [... long, tortuous explanation ...] Hallo, any lawyers around here?

As he said, "way too messy"!  ;)



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sat Oct  2 07:57:31 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:57:31 +0100
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<415d9229$0$18966$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<yfsacv6i3fg.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<415e7803$0$9581$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <yfs1xghfi38.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:

> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
>> OK, but let me say that this is *not* obvious -- it is difficult to find in
>> the docs (I don't really want to spawn anything and it's burried amongst a
>> zillion cryptically named similar functions with a complex interface) and
>> difficult to use.
>
> I fail to see the last point. What you proposed is equally difficult to
> use.

  ``os.run('touch', 'foo')`` [1]

vs.

  ``os.spawnvp(os.P_WAIT, 'touch', ['touch', 'foo'])``

If you don't think that second is not about 1 order of magnitude more
difficult to use for Joe Programmer, you are likely to be mistaken.

Even assuming that Joe, who presumably doesn't have a clue what spawning a
process might be and just wants to "run touch" (or whatever) has somehow
miraculously discovered that it's not `os.system` but spawning a process what
he really needs he's still faced with several hurdles (Which spawn* is the
right one? What does all that funny jargon in the docs mean? What were the
right arguments again? Ooops, I forgot to pass the command I wanted to run as
an argument... Finally -- what are the chances of getting all these right from
memory?)

> And yes, you do want to spawn a new process.

I expressed myself poorly: what I meant is that me and other people who
mistakenly reach for `os.system' don't go to the docs thinking "I want to
spawn a new process, how do I best accomplish that?", but rather "I'd like to
run an external command for my utility script, how do I best accomplish that?".

This is conceptually simple and I'd imagine frequent desire; so I think it
should be accommodated by a simple function.

> Adding notes to documentation is always possible. I don't see the point
> of adding a convenience function, because os.spawn* is already there.

But it's not *convenient* (or simple to understand and remember; for example
you almost *never* want to pass a different name as first arg so it's very
easy to forget; it's also entirely non-obvious unless you happen to know that
under unix some ostensibly different commands are just symlinks to a single
exectuable that behaves differently based on what it finds in argv[0]).

Plus you equally want something with (cmd, *args) as opposed to (cmdstring)
semantics for popen-like stuff, I should think (and unless I'm again missing
something there is no function that already does it).

So for symmetry, I'd ideally like to see two additions, say `run` (returning
exit status) and `run_and_read` (or `read_process`) (returning exit status and
process (standard) output).

If that's asking too much I'd at least suggest: 

1) putting something in the os.system heading that gives a simple example when
   *not* to use os.system and why and what to do instead (see [1]).
2) Providing something like ``commands.mkarg`` that works reasonably reliably
   and is documented


'as


Footnotes: 
[1]  Here's a mock implementation (untested):

    def run(cmd, *args):
        """Run `cmd` (which is searched for in the executable path) with `args` and
        return the exit status. 

        In general (unless you know what you're doing) use::

         run('program', filename)

        rather than::

         os.system('program %s' % filename)

        because the latter will not work as expected if `filename` contains
        spaces or shell-metacharacters.

        If you need more fine-grained control look at ``os.spawn*``.
        """
        return spawnvp(P_WAIT, cmd, (cmd,) + args)


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 18 17:09:10 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:09:10 GMT
Subject: UNIX-style sort in Python?
References: <I-6dnfLpv8Gzl-7cRVn-sw@comcast.com>
	<41734491$0$27969$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1glui57.aaac91au1t84N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <417428ba.155690901@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:27:45 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2004-10-18, Kotlin Sam <xavier_onasis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > For a while at least I have to work in Windows rather than UNIX, which
>> > is more familiar. I'm trying to do with Python some of the things that
>> > I've done for years in shell, in particular, sort. The shell sort is
>> > pretty easy to use:
>> 
>> Sounds like you need to install Cygwin so you have a real bash
>> shell and all of the normal shell utilities.
>
>An excellent piece of advice.  Cygwin has occasionally save my sanity in
>the past when the weakness of Windows' cmd.exe was getting to me...!-)
>
Most of my cmd.exe use is to invoke xxx ..args where xxx.cmd in a path directory
is one line like @python c:\util\xxx.cmd %* (I don't like the kludgy windows
first-line trick that requires xxx.py itself to be named xxx.cmd)
;-)

But, have you tried msys/mingw ? I haven't done a lot with it, but it is nice,
and supports most of the basic utilities including compiler/linker, though
I prefer gvim directly over the vim via msys shell (I probably don't have
the latter configured quite right).

A sampling:

[13:59] ~>ls /
bin  doc  etc  home  local  m.ico  mdk  mingw  msys.bat  msys.ico  uninstall
[14:00] ~>ls /bin
awk           diff.exe     ftp               libW11.dll    mv.exe     sed.exe       tr.exe
basename.exe  diff3.exe    gawk.exe          ln.exe        od.exe     sh.exe        true.exe
bunzip2       dirname.exe  grep.exe          lnkcnv        patch.exe  sleep.exe     uname.exe
bzip2.exe     echo         gunzip            ls.exe        printf     sort.exe      uniq.exe
cat.exe       egrep        gzip.exe          m4.exe        ps.exe     split.exe     vi
chmod.exe     env.exe      head.exe          make.exe      pwd        start         view
cmd           ex           id.exe            makeinfo.exe  rm.exe     tail.exe      vim.exe
cmp.exe       expr.exe     info.exe          md5sum.exe    rmdir.exe  tar.exe       wc.exe
comm.exe      false.exe    infokey.exe       mkdir.exe     rvi        tee.exe       which
cp.exe        fgrep        install-info.exe  mount.exe     rview      texi2dvi      xargs.exe
cut.exe       find.exe     install.exe       msys-1.0.dll  rvim       texindex.exe
date.exe      fold.exe     less.exe          msysinfo      rxvt.exe   touch.exe
[14:00] ~>which gcc
/mingw/bin/gcc
[14:00] ~>ls /mingw/bin
a2dll          dlltool.exe   g77.exe    mingw32-c++.exe   objdump.exe   res2coff.exe
addr2line.exe  dllwrap.exe   gcc.exe    mingw32-g++.exe   pexports.exe  size.exe
ar.exe         dos2unix.exe  gccbug     mingw32-gcc.exe   protoize.exe  strings.exe
as.exe         drmingw.exe   gcov.exe   mingw32-make.exe  ranlib.exe    strip.exe
c++.exe        dsw2mak       gdb.exe    mingwm10.dll      readelf.exe   unix2dos.exe
c++filt.exe    exchndl.dll   gprof.exe  nm.exe            redir.exe     unprotoize.exe
cpp.exe        g++.exe       ld.exe     objcopy.exe       reimp.exe     windres.exe
[14:00] ~>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 05:59:31 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:59:31 +0200
Subject: Graceful detection of EOF
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4537.1097189860.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glc5z1.56iyyk1fstik6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jeremy Jones <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote:
   ...
> > This is well in line with the normal Python idiom,
> > as compared to "look before you leap".
> >
> >                 Andrew
> >                 dalke at dalkescientific.com
> 
> So, what you're saying is that the Python way, in contradistinction to
> "look before you leap", is "land in it, then wipe it off?"  Can we get
> that in the Zen of Python?  :-)

The "normal Python idiom" is often called, in honor and memory of
Admiral Grace Murray-Hopper (arguably the most significant woman in the
history of programming languages to this time), "it's Easier to Ask
Forgiveness than Permission" (EAFP, vs the LBYL alternative).  This
motto has been attributed to many, but Ms Hopper was undoubtedly the
first one to use it reportedly and in our field.

In the general case, trying to ascertain that an operation will succeed
before attempting the operation has many problems.  Often you end up
repeating the same steps between the ascertaining and the actual usage,
which offends the "Once and Only Once" principle as well as slowing
things down.  Sometimes you cannot ensure that the ascertaining and the
operating pertain to exactly the same thing -- the world can have
changed in-between, or the code might present subtle differences between
the two cases.

In contrast, if a failed attempt can be guaranteed to not alter
persistent state and only result in an easily catchable exception, EAFP
can better deliver on its name.  In terms of your analogy, there's
nothing to "wipe off" -- if the leap "misfires", no damage is done.


Alex
 


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Oct 15 11:12:57 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:12:57 -0700
Subject: Some notes
In-Reply-To: <1glm9eg.1yldhpvtdfww2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glm9eg.1yldhpvtdfww2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416fee05$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> [lotsa stuff I like]
>>>- The functional IF seems interesting, like:
>>>if(cond, code1, code2) ... (Or ... a different syntax, [allowing elif])
>>Many variants have been proposed over the years, but none have ever made
>>it in.
> I think generators could get us close to this kind of thing (in Py3k).
> 
> They'd have to sprout a new method 'skip', similar to 'next' but defined
> to not evaluate the argument of the next yield. 
That seems pretty tough to define.  for a generator like:
     def agen():
         source = open('somedatafile.txt')
         for i in range(1000):
             source.seek(4 * i**2 + 33 * i + 52)
             line = source.readline()
             if line.startswith('magic:'):
                 yield line[6:]
         source.close()

What computation would "skip the evaluation of the next yield" avoid?

> ...  Such functions as lisp's cond might then easily be implemented:
> 
> def cond(@_args):
>     for test in _args:
>         if test: return _args.next()
>         else: _args.skip()

what would be different between this and:

 > def cond(@_args):
 >     for test in _args:
 >         if test: return _args.next()
 >         else: _args.next()

I just don't understand the semantics of .skip().

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From gdamjan at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 13:37:35 2004
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (Damjan)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:37:35 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.5324.1098460039.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2tsuqvF22okotU1@uni-berlin.de>

>> Have you tried PageTemplates from Zope?
>> 
>> They are very clever, and the macros makes it much better at reusing
>> code than anything I have seen elsewhere.
> 
> Can they be used outside of Zope?  One of my criteria was usability

SimpleTAL
http://www.owlfish.com/software/simpleTAL/ - pure python module


-- 
damjan


From hecull at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 11:58:45 2004
From: hecull at gmail.com (Kyle Odom)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 08:58:45 -0700
Subject: FTP anomaly
Message-ID: <3a1ddb20.0410280758.6dfe7e2a@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to automate some things at work and something I do a lot if
FTP some files back and forth.  I've got this all done in python just
fine, but I noticed a huge difference in file sizes.  One particular
binary file comes over at roughly two megs when I transfer it via ftp
from the command line (running XP.)  When I get it via my python
script, it's nine megs!  Any clue why?  I haven't tried using the file
in my work because I don't want to break anything.
Fairly new to Python, be kind to me :)
Thanks!
KO


From sean at buildingonline.com  Thu Oct 28 11:32:44 2004
From: sean at buildingonline.com (Sean Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:32:44 -0700
Subject: Real-time graphs
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2i8gd.80291$hj.17852@fed1read07>

> Hi,
> just wondering what options I would have if I wanted to use Python to
> produce real-time graphs. Is there any plotting package suitable for
> this.
>

I don't know about plotting packages... but I used PIL (Python Imaging 
Library) to create some dynamic graphs.

Hopefully someone has something to help because I might be able to use them 
as well for some upcoming projects.





From agriff at tin.it  Sat Oct 30 08:12:36 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:12:36 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5689.1099092886.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nl07o0lr3dvunoq2j0avuvmftnc837fvoc@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:34:42 GMT, exarkun at divmod.com wrote:

>  range(maxlen) can be replaced with range(int(math.log(x) / math.log(N)) + 1).

Log accepts the base as second argument.

def number_in_base(x, N=10, digits="0123456789ABCDEF"):
    return '-'[x>=0:]+"".join(
     [digits[abs(x)/N**i%N]
      for i in xrange(1+int(math.log(abs(x)+1,N)))
      if N**i<=abs(x)][::-1]) or digits[0]

>  Also, and perhaps you are already aware, number_in_base(x, 1, '0') doesn't produce the correct output with the above algorithm, although I believe it will if you switch to using math.log().

It doesn't handle roman numerals either... but so ?
You can't count using base 1 with positional systems.

Andrea


From export at hope.cz  Tue Oct 19 05:15:03 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 02:15:03 -0700
Subject: Threads running in different web browser windows
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410190115.40c63b6@posting.google.com>

I would like to use httplib/urllib to download webpages from 3
different websites.From my script
I want to open 3 webbrowser windows( 3 threads) and open in each
thread( window)  pages from a particular website.
Is it possible to do that in Python?
Thanks for help
Lad


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 31 12:49:05 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:49:05 -0700
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <slrncoa6j7.sl4.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoa6j7.sl4.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <20041031104833.0C37.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> wrote:
> To sum up, Perl6 made a perfect opportunity for me to migrate to
> Python!

That is my vote for Quote of the Week.

 - Josiah



From johng2001 at rediffmail.com  Mon Oct 25 18:56:47 2004
From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 15:56:47 -0700
Subject: Reading XML like Python!
References: <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534@posting.google.com>
	<clin96$hgo$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <ba129ce7.0410251456.5f0c45aa@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message news:<clin96$hgo$04$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> John wrote:
> 
> > I have to read a lot of XML for my upcoming project.
> > XML is hard on my eyes.
> > Is there some sort of converter that converts XML to something more
> > eye friendly? maybe like Python? I have seen restructured text. There
> > is a paper at EuroPython 2004 that seems to do something similar.
> 
> I used yaml - actually its not exactly what you asked for, but a different
> way of producing markup, which is much more friendly to the eye, and as
> whitespace is significant, resembles python in that respect. I'm not aware
> of xml2yaml converters, but I haven't looked so there might be some.

Thanks for the info. I found some YAML and PYX converters on CPAN. Will do for now.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Oct  6 03:13:23 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 06 Oct 2004 09:13:23 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<UWt8d.3156$UP1.2886@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4352.1096990836.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfbrfgcoa4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> writes:

> Andrew Dalke wrote:
> 
> > Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> >
> >> _Most_ object-oriented languages support object orientation via the
> >> message passing paradigm. Python included.
> >
> >
> > Translating the Smalltalk notation to Python -- what are
> > the messages?  Is it that
> >
> >   x.y(z)
> >
> > means "send the __call__  (z)" message to the result of
> > the "z __getattr__ 'y'" message?
> >
> >                 Andrew
> >                 dalke at dalkescientific.com
> 
> In ObjC it would be send the message y with value z to object X
> Say X doesn't know what to do with y
> specified in X's code are instruction that tell it what object to pass
> the message y to...say...U for example
> 
> So the message has been passed and basically translates into U.y(z) or
> in ObjC [U y:z]

You mean some refinement of this sort of thing:

    class X(object):
    
        a = "lives in X"
    
        def __getattr__(self, name):
            return getattr(U,name)
    
    class U(object):
    
        b = "lives in Y"
    
    x = X()
    print x.a
    print x.b

?


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Sat Oct  9 23:34:03 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:34:03 -0400
Subject: help me
In-Reply-To: <4168AD38.8080209@cloudthunder.com>
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>	<3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>	<mailman.4646.1097373842.5135.python-list@python.org>	<bM1ad.8006$UP1.5707@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4168AD38.8080209@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <4168ADAB.8080708@kzoo.edu>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

> <SNIP>
>
>>
>>
>> >>> globals()[raw_input("enter name: ")] = 34
>> enter name: raw_input
>> >>> globals()[raw_input("enter name: ")] = 34
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> TypeError: 'int' object is not callable
>> >>>
>>
>>                 Andrew
>>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com
>
>
> exec and eval is dangerous stuff for the inexperienced.  Dictionary is 
> an excellent idea Andrew.  However, if what he wants to do is as 
> simple as the example he gave, he doesn't even need a dictionary.
>
>
Alright, you say he doesn't need a dictionary, and the other guy says he 
doesn't actually need eval. What is this mysterious non-exec, non-eval, 
non-globals(), non-dictionary solution? ;)



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct  5 02:46:39 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 08:46:39 +0200
Subject: Miscellaneous personal prejudices (was: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL!
	- weekly Python news and links (Oct 4))
References: <cjsh6t$m6u$1@lairds.us> <36i932-lr5.ln1@lairds.us>
	<1tudnWqDWMKcpf_cRVn-qg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <cjtg07$ns0$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Dan Perl wrote:

> "What do I have to say to get into the QOTW?"
> Dan?Perl,?on?his?own?personal?prejudices

If it were predictable, wouldn't it be boring?

Peter
 



From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Fri Oct  1 20:02:41 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 18:02:41 -0600
Subject: Help required with mod_python and apache virtual hosts
References: <mailman.4154.1096582389.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415cc6a2$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
	<mailman.4193.1096668904.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <415df021_4@omega.dimensional.com>

andy <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> writes:

> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 03:53, Michael Fuhr wrote:
> > andy <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> writes:
> > 
> > > I'm trying to get mod_python working on my web server, but I'm running
> > > into problems, possibly due to having virtual hosts configured.
> > 
> > What problems are you having?  What are you expecting to happen,
> > and what is actually happening?  If there are warning or error
> > messages, what are they?  What makes you think the problems might
> > be related to virtual hosts?
>
> Is it too simplistic to just say "it doesn't work" ?

Yes -- saying "it doesn't work" tells us nothing about what you've
done and what symptoms you're seeing.  Without more information we
have to guess and make assumptions, which can waste time by leading
us down the wrong path.

Here's a good article on how to ask questions:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

"It is the questions asked, not the answers given, that distinguish
the wise person from the fool."  -Elie Wiesel

> As I said, Apache is not one of my areas of expertise (yet!).  I
> have tried to configure it according to the pycon 2004 "Introduction
> to mod_python" paper's examples, but as the httpd.conf file is
> arranged as a common part and then "includes" config files for each
> virtual host, I'm not sure I've done it right.  First, I tried to
> configure it so I can put the python scripts anywhere in the
> web-servers httpdoc tree, but that didn't work, so I have now tried
> customising one of the include files, but that doesn't work either.

What configuration directives did you use and where did you put
them?  If the directives are inside a block such as <VirtualHost>
or <Directory>, then post the entire block.

> This configuration scheme is dictated by my hosting company, and
> whereas I *could* change it, I'd lose all hope of support should I
> need it ;-) and the automated admin tool might stop working, too.
> I can get away with altering parts of it, but not a wholesale
> re-write (not that I'm capable of this anyway).

Tell us what you're altering from the working configuration.

Have you brought this issue up with the hosting company?  If they're
not able to help then perhaps you should find another provider, one
with more technical expertise.

> Here's the error I get in the browser:
>
> """
> Object not found!

Do you have access to the web server's error logs?  That's where
you're more likely to see meaningful diagnostics.

> The file in question *is* available, and readable by Apache (I've proven
> this by simply renaming it with .html on the end - as expected, the
> browser just shows the python source).

That's one problem we can rule out (the kind of problem that we'd
have had to ask about if you hadn't told us).  What name does the
file usually have, the name that results in "Object not found"?
What, if anything, appears in the web server's error logs when you
request that object?  Can you run the python script successfully
from the command line on the web server?

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 13 03:48:57 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:48:57 +0200
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ck5neo$t2n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<20041008095200.GA25498@nl.linux.org>
	<20041008083902.ED7F.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4618.1097283269.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glkimn.375ii91s5k0s2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> I don't much like the break out of a for loop, because it feels like a misuse
> of a construct designed for iteration...  But take your pick: StopIteration or
> NameError.  =)

Jacopini and Bohm have much to answer for...;-)



Alex


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 14:11:24 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 14:11:24 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>	<4162CFCE.6040700@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>>Really?  Well, I never took computer science so I guess I wouldn't 
>>exactly know.  What's the point of making them write a report?
>>    
>>
>
>If you went to school, you would understand the point in doing a report
>on almost anything.
>
>Honestly, who the hell are you?
>
> - Josiah
>
>  
>
A retired philosophy professor who taught himself programming when he 
was twelve.  I've been programming as a hobby since and was interested 
in Python a few years ago, played around with it, and didn't pick it 
back up until now.  What else you want to know?  I've got a cat, a dog, 
and a lovely, highly intelligent wife who teaches history.  No kids, and 
no plans to have any.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 03:45:11 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:45:11 +0200
Subject: bz2 module
References: <cl18e4$ma5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<1glvijt.ji2vka1o473smN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cl1a3m$os6$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <1glwd1v.1cs46z81fpupapN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> >>AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'BZ2File'
> > 
> > Looks like your Python is misinstalled, or something...:
> > 
> >>>>import bz2
> >>>>bz2.BZ2File
> > 
> > <type 'bz2.BZ2File'>

...so this is the first thing you should investigate...


> >>Can anyone give me an example of how to use bz2 to compress files. Why
> > 
> > import bz2
> > source = open('test.bkf', 'rb')
> > destination = bz2.BZ2File('test.bkf.bz2', 'w')
> > 
> > while True:
> >     data = source.read(1024000)
> >     if not data: break
> >     destination.write(data)
> > 
> > destination.close()
> > source.close()

"You're welcome", by the way.


> >>don't the docs give examples of this?!?
> > 
> > If the docs were perfect, who'd ever buy Python in a Nutshell, or the
> > Python Cookbook?  So I sneak in at night in the CVS repository and
> > secretly sabotage them just enough, destroying, without leaving a trace,
> > all the wonderful doc patches that people are submitting all the time,
> > fixing problems rather than whining about them...
> 
> I don't know enough about proper Python usage to submit doc patches, so
> when I google and can't find an answer and none of my coworkers can 
> answer my question, I post here for help... I wouldn't call that 
> whining, but you're entitled to your opinion of my post.

Touchy, aren't we?  Bet you took the part about sneaking in at night &c
at literal value too -- after all, there was no smiley, so I clearly
must be in deadly earnest rather than deadpanning a friendly ribbing.

The answer, turned back to serious mood, means: if something is missing
in the docs it's because people who think it should be there have not
submitted a doc patch for it.  I'm not comfortable with the library
*reference* being full of examples; I think it should probably be split
into a reference (a real one) and a collection of how-to/tutorials (with
the examples).  So, I've submitted doc pathes for correction of errors,
omissions, imperfect or ambiguous phrasing, etc, but not ones for the
addition of examples.

The most _systematic_ collection of examples of use of the standard
library is neither of my books, btw, but rather Lundh's "Standard Python
Library" book -- it's a bit dated, but it has examples of use of _every_
module that was in the library when the book was written.


Alex


From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Wed Oct  6 04:32:37 2004
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:32:37 +0200
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <864d37090410051537477555f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.4227.1096839829.5135.python-list@python.org>	<fu-dnW0ayarAGf3cRVn-qg@powergate.ca>	<a321m0ptb8j9rfq01mrd5pn9vg791njquf@4ax.com>	<opmdnfljLrvGPf3cRVn-qQ@powergate.ca>	<nkc4m0dkiqqkrmlouib0rmcl8sqv6hnb0u@4ax.com>	<mailman.4345.1096989164.5135.python-list@python.org>	<mq16m0lp7t7i1o71rf3q5g0mn0en19nh92@4ax.com>
	<864d37090410051537477555f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4163ADA5.8020105@cenix-bioscience.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:51:31 GMT, Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> wrote:
>  
>
>>On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:12:39 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro
>><carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Keeping with the same reasoning line, why don't the engineers that
>>>work in the company take more responsibility? Because they were never
>>>in such a position. They don't have a choice. They have to keep things
>>>running, period. The one who messes up with stuff is fired. And doing
>>>development is not their company business, anyway. Want to do it? Go
>>>working for a vendor.
>>>      
>>>
>>Well... in our case we have customers that didn't probably
>>see an engineer in past 10 years. Still they can buy and use
>>rather hi-tech machines from us that cost several tens of
>>thousands of dollars. It doesn't come as a surprise to me they
>>don't want to take the responsibility for them being functional.
>>    
>>
>
>I was afraid that my experience would not reflect the state of the art
>elsewhere. Seems it wasn't any far from truth :-)
>  
>
    Engineers working at a user site need to be multi skilled (external 
facing, internal facing, technically competent) and therefore 
expensive.  If you have an  engineer who you want to do development, 
cha-ching add in some more salary.  I would much much prefer to have no 
engineer that an incompetent one and a competent one costs a lot of 
money - something that some companies may not be able to afford. 

    To the money men thing - if that is your experience then the company 
was run incorrectly - most people I speak to - a purchase decision is 
made between the user, on -site engineer, finance and managers.  Any 
company in which the finance department purchases equipment without 
consulting the people involved in the process is bad, bad - bad!

>  
>
>>A sad part is that sometimes our customer support has to
>>spend time to explain people what does it mean to copy a file
>>from a floppy disk to a certain directory; but I've to say
>>that the users that create more troubles are actually the
>>"expert" ones. I would actually refuse to provide any support
>>to anyone relinking my application with a newer versions of
>>a library... you really wanna do it ? You're welcome, but
>>don't call me if something doesn't work and you've something
>>urgent to do with the system... unless you really like being
>>insulted over the phone. Luckily this doesn't happen often...
>>It's much more common (and a bit annoying) to see someone
>>fearing updates...
>>    
>>
>
>When the market finally awakes from the stone age, you'll surely start
>to get more calls like this. Not only from people relinking, but
>patches, and *real* bug tickets found by your very customers. Get used
>to it. You can't complain this way once the market is open.
>  
>
    Yes you can, if you open something up you will _still_ get people 
screwing things up.  Suppose a customer smashes a new machine up because 
he or she 'had a play' with the machine using the low level code (if  I 
wasn't meant to use this code then why did you give it to me?).  The as 
the vendor what happens next; the customer will either lie - leading the 
vendor to determine whether or not to pull the customer up and charge 
them; they could tell the truth and beg/insist on not paying for the 
repair or they could pay up - which will sour the vendor/user 
relationship.  Personally, I _never_ take a machine apart unless I've 
been trained to do it.  I also set out the terms of what happens if I 
screw up with the vendor before I accept and they give me the control 
codes.  If you open-source this stuff then you lose this control and 
people will smash your machines up - the only thing you can count on is 
people making mistakes!!

    I agree that the industry is behind but open-sourcing an industry 
will not immediately remove all the problems and issues - that's too 
simplistic a view point.

Cheers,

Neil

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
BioInnovations Zentrum
Tatzberg 47
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (0)351 4173 154
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 10:16:42 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:16:42 +0200
Subject: C API q
References: <fjpgd.120483$dP1.407216@newsc.telia.net>
	<1gmfdbg.1threpoqo41wbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<K1sgd.120488$dP1.407456@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <1gmfegg.1o1acafv60n13N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Emanuel Landeholm <emanuel.landeholm at telia.com> wrote:
   ...
> > You can call the 'remove' method on the list object from C just as you
> > could from Python, essentially.  Internally, that does essentially the
> > same thing you're doing here, but it does make your own code simpler.
> 
> Okay, how do I do that?

Any of several ways, such as:

PyObject_CallMethod(oblist, "remove", "O", obitem)


Alex


From evenprimes at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 22:27:47 2004
From: evenprimes at gmail.com (Chris Cioffi)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:27:47 -0400
Subject: EDI Tools
In-Reply-To: <00e801c4bc4e$2101e5e0$054b12ac@D18SYX41>
References: <00e801c4bc4e$2101e5e0$054b12ac@D18SYX41>
Message-ID: <f03f4fdf041027192724198600@mail.gmail.com>

I've posted by X12 parser to the Activestate Cookbook.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/299485

I've also got a fairly generic handler class that I might post if
folks are interested.  I've only recently gotten it together.

I wrote this stuff as a bunch of support and ad hod reporting
utilities.  I can only release a small portion of what I've written
though, since so much is only applicable to my company.  At least the
way I wrote it...I was learning X12 as I was writing code.

What sort of tools are you looking to create?  My current experience
is that while most packages have moderate to good support of the
basics, reporting and trend analysis tools are seriously lacking in
the current crop of pacakges.  Those issues are where I've been
focusing my efforts.

Chris

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:55:19 -0500, Greg Lindstrom
<greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com> wrote:
> Hello-
> 
> I've read the archives with interest concerning the EDI format for
> information exchange.  I didn't see anything in the vaults to handle the EDI
> X12 standard and wondered if anyone has done work with that.  If not, I have
> some tools I have developed that would be a good start on creating a Python
> based library to create/process EDI documents.  My interest would be in the
> medical/health care fields, but we could abstract them to work off any of
> the EDI documentation.
> 
> Anyone interested?
> 
> Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
> NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com
> 
> "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.
> 
> This email and any attachments to it are privileged and confidential and are
> intended solely for use of the individual or entity to which they are
> addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, any
> use, distribution, or copying of this communication, or disclosure of all or
> any part of its content to any other person, is strictly prohibited. If you
> have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by
> replying to this message and destroy this message and delete any copies held
> in your electronic files. Thank you.
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
<a href="http://spreadfirefox.com/community/?q=affiliates&id=0&t=1">Get
Firefox!</a>


From aurora00 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 17:58:58 2004
From: aurora00 at gmail.com (aurora)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:58:58 -0700
Subject: Python to Python communication
References: <Xns957F95400C53Ecpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
Message-ID: <opsfp7ckvx6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>

A cheap solution for brainstorming: just output messages to files.

   p1/001.msg
   p2/002.msg
   ...etc...

Do some polling to pick up messages. This is very asynchronize and maybe  
useful for some communication pattern.


From jfabiani at yolo.com  Sun Oct 10 00:07:50 2004
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 04:07:50 GMT
Subject: The IDE question
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qA2ad.9557$nj.174@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

dataangel wrote:

> I'm trying to find an IDE for python that I'm comfortable with. For my
> needs IDLE actually works 99% of the time, but on my current project I
> need to have lots of files open at once, and I would really prefer to
> have tabbed browsing. I'd even try to code this into IDLE myself but I
> have no experience with Tk.
> 
> All of the IDEs I've found (google + python wiki page) are either A)
> Commercial or B) Written for either an older version of python or
> wxPython or C) Are syntax highlighting in eclipse and that's it.
> 
> All I'm really looking for is the equivalent of IDLE with tabbed
> browsing. Anyone have any suggestions?
I'm not sure which platform but take a look at Eric (it has projects and
tabs).  Of course this only works with Linux.  You might also take a look
at SPE (windows and Linux).  I like Eric because of the debugger.

John




From MornIHATESPAMThdr at NOSPAMverizon.net  Wed Oct 13 00:06:54 2004
From: MornIHATESPAMThdr at NOSPAMverizon.net (Wes S.)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 04:06:54 GMT
Subject: Intercept and Tag STDOUT values
References: <AG1bd.5304$YU4.1564@trnddc06>
Message-ID: <yR1bd.5306$YU4.4228@trnddc06>

Ok, so I've solved one piece of the puzzle, now the class itself works
(errors...sad...). Nevertheless, it's not actually replacing the sys.stdout
like I have intended all along...

class cStdOutRedirect :
    stdOld = sys.stdout
    def __main__(self) :
        self.stdOld = sys.stdout
        sys.stdout = self
        return True
    def write(self,str) :
        self.stdOld.write("REDIRECTED OUTPUT: " + str)
        return True
    def close(self) :
        sys.stdout = self.stdOld
        return True






From abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Tue Oct  5 04:58:15 2004
From: abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Ajay)
Date: Tue,  5 Oct 2004 18:58:15 +1000
Subject: shelve: choice of database package
Message-ID: <1096966695.41626227ada0d@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>

hi!

i am using shelve in a piece of code i have. The code originally used
'bsddb' but the Berkeley DB library isn't present on my platform (WinCE).
It says in the library reference that "The choice of which database package
will be used (such as dbm, gdbm or bsddb) depends on which interface is
available".
now i can say its not using bsddb (since its not present). Is there a way
of telling which package it is using?

thanks

cheers





----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 19:04:03 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 01:04:03 +0200
Subject: Constructor problem
References: <418169ec$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <1gme840.1i5igae7h231jN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Nick <mediocre_person at hotmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> I'm writing a simple class to represent a deck of cards. Here is the 
> stripped down version. Notice classes Deck and Deck2. Class Deck works,
> Deck2 does not. My thinking is that it should be more efficient (a la
> Deck2) to pre-create the list, and then modify it, rather than appending
> Cards as in Deck.

Everybody's accusing you of premature optimization, and they have a
point, but, there IS a very simple approach that's fast and useful
(particularly in Python 2.4 -- if you're interested in performance, get
and use 2.4 beta 1 *NOW*!!!-): a list comprehension:

  self.deck = [Card(r, s) for r in xrange(13) for s in xrange(4)]


Alex


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Fri Oct  8 11:50:17 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:50:17 +0200
Subject: Can wxWidgets/wxPython 2.4 and 2.5 co-exist on same PC?
In-Reply-To: <MqOdnbIa_pf4OPvcRVn-ig@comcast.com>
References: <MqOdnbIa_pf4OPvcRVn-ig@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <ck6cvo$1f9$3@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

R Baumann wrote:
> I would like to be able to run Boa Constructor, which does not yet use 2.5,
> but I would also like to work with Dabo which does.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas about how to accomplish this?
> 
> Thanks
> Ruben
> 
> 
Have a look at http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/VersionSelection
Also I would recommend looking at the wxpython list archives, this has 
been discussed a lot recently.
If you have specific problems once you've tried the above, then report 
them and maybe you can get specific help

David


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sat Oct 16 12:53:51 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:53:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.5042.1097935880.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckrjmu$r47$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Michael Sparks <zathras at thwackety.com> pisze:

>>     Michael> Being more specific though... It also frustrates me that
>>     Michael> I can write something I find useful and then cannot
>>     Michael> afford to pass it onto friends who use windows, even if
>>     Michael> there's no commercial value in it.
>>
>> What we are seeing here is a horrible waste of coding - 95% of the
>> desktop world runs on Windows, and if a piece of software is unusable
>> for 95% of the potential userbase... that just sucks.
> 
> What if the developer only intended to write the tool for himself, and
> happens to make it available to that extra 5% though? That's a net gain
> from 1 person surely?

Amen, brother. ;)

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net  Fri Oct 15 10:56:58 2004
From: riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net (Riccardo Galli)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:56:58 +0200
Subject: ANN: curses-extra 0.2
References: <pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050@cut.me.sideralis.net>
	<4edc17eb.0410141118.6d3ac74d@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.10.14.21.52.29.434183@cut.me.sideralis.net>
	<4edc17eb.0410150150.fb6ee71@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.15.14.56.56.237650@cut.me.sideralis.net>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:50:26 -0700, Michele Simionato wrote:

> Riccardo Galli <riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.14.21.52.29.434183 at cut.me.sideralis.net>...
>> Do you (or others) know what is the best module available for console
>> graphic in DOS ?
> 
> No, however in a another thread Erik Max Francis pointed out the existence
> of curses for Windows: http://flangy.com/dev/python/curses/

For all the answerers: I'll check these modules or library.
Tnx.

> I have a linux question anyway: what's the terminal where you tested 
> curses_extra.py? It looks very different in xterm and Konsole (in the
> version of Konsole I have on Mandrake 10.0 it does not look even right).
> I did not expect such big differences; on xterm I do not see the underlined
> chars in the menus, for instance.
> 
>       Michele

I have tested under Eterm and gnome-terminal.
On xterm the difference is on the colors, and it does not belong to my
module (I think), and yes, I don't see too the underlined letters. This is
a bug, and I'll find a way to correct this behaviour.

I can't try it on Konsole, but I'll search for a solution different from
installing kde(!) (dunno, maybe I'll try knoppix).

(I noticed also an ugly cursor on buttons, I'll fix that).

Grazie,
Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net


From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Mon Oct 18 04:42:04 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:42:04 GMT
Subject: List Flatten
References: <5c882bb5.0410161531.41713754@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wlLcd.2992$Ug4.819@trndny01>

"bearophile" <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> wrote :
> This program works for very deep lists too, without giving Stack
> overflow like the recursive version (and it's faster than the
> recursive version).

Here is a non-recursive version using generators.  It runs in O(n) time and is
memory friendly (consuming space proportional to the depth of the input).  It
has one additional feature, strings are kept whole instead of iterating them
into characters.


>>> def f(n):
    iterstack = [iter(n)]
    while iterstack:
        for elem in iterstack[-1]:
            try:
                it = iter(elem)
            except TypeError:
                pass
            else:
                if not isinstance(elem, basestring):
                    iterstack.append(it)
                    break
            yield elem
        else:
            iterstack.pop()  # remove iterator only when it is exhausted

>>> n = [['ab', 2, [], [3, 5, (2,1), [4]]]]
>>> print list(f(n))
['ab', 2, 3, 5, 2, 1, 4]



Raymond Hettinger




From jeffrey at fro.man  Sat Oct  9 19:01:23 2004
From: jeffrey at fro.man (Jeffrey Froman)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 16:01:23 -0700
Subject: complex data structure - insert value
References: <e7fe8d9e.0410091444.211313b5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10mgre414hoq816@corp.supernews.com>

spar wrote:

> Basically I'd like to do the same thing in Python. I've written a
> convoluted test script where I can print an element:
> 
> print data[0]['CC'][1]
> 
> but I can't insert directly like I do in Perl (data[0]['CC'][1] =
> $var).

This should work fine, though in python this would result in assignment, not
insertion:

***************************
>>> #Assignment:
>>> x=[{'foo':[1,2,3]}]
>>> x[0]['foo'][1] = 'bar'
>>> x
[{'foo': [1, 'bar', 3]}]

>>> #Insertion:
>>> x[0]['foo'].insert(2, 'baz')
>>> x
[{'foo': [1, 'bar', 'baz', 3]}]

***************************

Jeffrey


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 12:58:40 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:58:40 +0200
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410052233.16505629@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4427.1097075425.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl90d9.pdp4wylj1ihkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 5 Oct 2004 23:33:01 -0700, Michele Simionato
> <michele.simionato at gmail.com> wrote:
> > which does something close to what you ask for. Of course the trick
> > there is NOT recommended for real code ;)
> 
> That was the best advice I could have :-) Really. I'm trying to outwit
> Python, and one has to have the good sense to stop doing it at some
> point. I'm giving up (unless I found a really great way to make it),
> and I'll use this idiom instead:
> 
> def BuildTemplate(<template parameters>)
>     class TemplateClass(...):
>         ...
>     return TemplateClass
> 
> It's simple, and less hackish, but still unusual. I fear I may be
> missing something on my design, if I need to resort to such hacks.

Personally, I _like_ using 'class' statements to make classes and 'def'
statements to make functions; I don't see either as hacks.  Messing with
bytecodes, building a function with new.function around a certain code
object, calling the metaclass explicitly... that feels more hackish to
me, personally.  I do it when I must, but 99.9% of the time I have no
problem avoiding it in production code, it seems to me.


Alex


From pcooke at philc.net  Tue Oct 19 01:28:31 2004
From: pcooke at philc.net (PhilC)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:28:31 -0400
Subject: Latest PIL installer failed to install.
References: <5g68n0hgiiq80smabt3rdcn7j6ruv6rl6v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <u999n05psmklojh1j50v9kfgt0p4j1pvv9@4ax.com>

I get the same trying to install Scientific Python.

The top of the registerPython script is as below.
What do I need to change under "# tweak as necessary" ?

Thanks,

PhilC


#
# script to register Python 2.0 or later for use with win32all
# and other extensions that require Python registry settings
#
# written by Joakim L?w for Secret Labs AB / PythonWare
#
# source:
# http://www.pythonware.com/products/works/articles/regpy20.htm

import sys

from _winreg import *

# tweak as necessary
version = sys.version[:2]
installpath = sys.prefix

regpath = "SOFTWARE\\Python\\Pythoncore\\%s\\" % (version)
installkey = "InstallPath"
pythonkey = "PythonPath"
pythonpath = "%s;%sLib\\;%sDLLs\\" % (
    installpath, installpath, installpath



From usenet.0.lho at spamgourmet.com  Fri Oct 29 02:21:38 2004
From: usenet.0.lho at spamgourmet.com (Joachim Bowman)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:21:38 +0200
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410271131.2611f4e1@posting.google.com>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<2u9hklF24n4b1U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<6f402501.0410271131.2611f4e1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2ue5qbF289bdbU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

Michael Foord wrote:
> Joachim Bowman:
>>Michael Foord wrote:
>>
>>>I'd also like to prevent people
>>>selling derivative works where my stuff forms the substantial part of
>>>the poduct.
>>>
>>>I'd prefer to use an OSI approved license - but it's not essential.
>>
>>These two don't go together.  Read "6. No Discrimination Against Fields 
>>of Endeavor" in "The Open Source Definition"[0].
 >>[0] http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php
> 
> I don't see a conflict at all on that point..... 

Well, selling a derivative work of your software is some kind of 
endeavor.  If you include a restriction in your license forbidding this, 
it doesn't comply to The Open Source Definition.

You will not find any OSI approved license which will include a clause 
like the one you probably have in mind.

J


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sat Oct 16 19:08:05 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:08:05 -0300
Subject: Python Library Reference is tutorial, not reference
In-Reply-To: <20041016141457.09EA.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <opsfy32lax6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>
	<20041016141457.09EA.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <864d370904101616085c4caf54@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:38:17 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> With that said, I find reading the source to be very 
> educational as to how other people do things, but 
> prefer to read /real/ source rather than merely the 
> interfaces to a particular module or class.  

There's nothing like reading good source code to learn to program in
*any* language. However, there's something that pure source code don't
tell you, thats the *context* behind its design: the intentions, the
limitations (which may not be obivous), and the somewhat difficult
design choices faced by the programmer. For this, good comments are
important, but nothing beats good reference documentation. In my
opinion, it should not tell only what each function and argument does:
it should state how it is supposed to be used, and why does it make
sense.

As for complaining but not writing it myself... well, I really dont
feel comfortable doing that. English is not my native language, and
I'm afraid that the material that I write would not be good enough for
Python's documentation standard. It's one thing to post at c.l.py, and
another one to submit a documentation patch.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From emanuel.landeholm at telia.com  Fri Oct 29 10:00:10 2004
From: emanuel.landeholm at telia.com (Emanuel Landeholm)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:00:10 GMT
Subject: C API q
In-Reply-To: <1gmfdbg.1threpoqo41wbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <fjpgd.120483$dP1.407216@newsc.telia.net>
	<1gmfdbg.1threpoqo41wbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <K1sgd.120488$dP1.407456@newsc.telia.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Emanuel Landeholm <emanuel.landeholm at telia.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hello!
>>
>>I'm a Py neophyte trying to code an extension module in C. I would like
>>to know how, canonically, to remove a certain PyObject from a PyList,
>>from C. The solution I have come up with so far involves iterating 
>>through the PyList keeping a counter, and then using 
>>PyList_DelItem(counter) on the counter when the iter item == the 
>>PyObject. But this is kind of messy. I'm sure there's a cleaner way to
>>do it?
> 
> 
> You can call the 'remove' method on the list object from C just as you
> could from Python, essentially.  Internally, that does essentially the
> same thing you're doing here, but it does make your own code simpler.

Okay, how do I do that?


From gumuz at NO_looze_SPAM.net  Thu Oct  7 04:24:52 2004
From: gumuz at NO_looze_SPAM.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:24:52 +0200
Subject: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1097135793.050560.24750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4164fd44$0$280$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

oops!

that was my first ppost through google and that didn't go ok :)

but what I wanted to say is that you can take a look at:
http://feetup.org/blog/dev/python/WikiLite.html


this is not webserverless, but it doesn't use Apache or IIS. It only uses a
couple of lines of python code to serve it up. it's dead easy!




From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Wed Oct 13 09:18:19 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:18:19 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4810.1097648927.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
	<mailman.4810.1097648927.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <z5adnVM1YNiBtvDcRVn-vw@giganews.com>

Cliff Wells wrote:


>>"Python-like" means very little. Make it run python code
>>then you'll see a lot more interest from this group.

> If you didn't find it interesting, then why did you respond?  

To voice my opinion.

 > Also, what
> makes you the spokesperson for the rest of the people on this list?  

You don't have to be a "spokesperson" to express the obvious

Istvan.


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Mon Oct  4 14:44:08 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:44:08 -0700
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <yfsacv24cdn.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
	<cam7d.455$UP1.116@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<yfsacv5h224.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<slrnclvng4.u8f.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<yfs8yanetzp.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<mailman.4247.1096901234.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<yfsacv24cdn.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <cjs5mg$7ug$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:

[snip]

> Anyway, I think this horse has now been beaten to death -- either someone who
> has the power to make inclusions has been convinced by now or it's not gonna
> happen (at least not in the immediate future).

Not necessarily. It *is* unlikely that someone who "has the power to 
make inclusions" is going to pick up on this and write an implementation 
for you. However, (and this is an important feature of Python's 
development) if *you* write an implementation, document it, write unit 
tests for it, and present it to the public and python-dev with a good 
case for its existence, it has a pretty good chance of getting in.

Many (most?) of the active Python core developers don't read c.l.py with 
any frequency. If you have a feature request, post it to the Sourceforge 
bug tracker[1], preferably with a patch implementing the feature, or 
it's almost certain that no-one will pick it up.

[1] http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 21 20:05:51 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:05:51 -0400
Subject: confused about stdin
In-Reply-To: <cl9fhq$46m$1@news.asu.edu>
References: <cl9fhq$46m$1@news.asu.edu>
Message-ID: <heYdd.9045$SW3.6279@fed1read01>

David Bear wrote:

> This may be a dumb question but I'm confused.
> 
> using command line syntax pipe like this:
> 
>    cat somefile | pyscript
> 
> In my pyscript I can simply do 
> 
>    buffer = sys.stdin.read()
> 
> to get all of whatever cat sends.
> 
Correct. But this uses a "cat" process to very little effect.

> However, using syntax like this:
> 
>    pyscript < somefile
> 
> I'm not sure. Does this send to stdin as well? 
> 
Yes. Now standard input is the content of the named file, where in the 
first case it was the output of the preceding process in the pipe.

The pipe case is much more useful where you are actually transforming 
information rather than just using it directly, such as

     sort somefile | pyscript

Since "cat" doesn't do any transformation at all, using file redirection 
as in your second example is generally better practice than your first 
example.

> And.. will it work on both unix and windows?
> 
Reasonably well, yes, though (at least) some Windows implementations 
will use intermediate files rather than in-memory buffers to implement 
the pipes, so you could end up getting less parallelism than you 
anticipate.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From kristof at rubin.hu  Thu Oct 14 05:42:03 2004
From: kristof at rubin.hu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Krist=F3f_Str=F3bl?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:42:03 +0200
Subject: read a files particular line
In-Reply-To: <cklgrm$6g3$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cklgrm$6g3$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <416E49EB.7080405@rubin.hu>

Hi,

If the file is not too big use:

file("filename").readlines()[11]

Krist?f

Frank Grellert wrote:

> Hi,
> does anybody have an idea how to read a particular line of a file like awk's
> awk '{if( NR==12) print $0}' filename (reads lineno 12 of filename)
> 
> thanks for your help
> 
> Frank Grellert



From russblau at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  5 09:19:04 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:19:04 -0400
Subject: Easy List question
References: <dd7a3c47.0410050339.efad894@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2sfl8sF1k4k08U1@uni-berlin.de>

"Matt Williams" <matt at mwilliams.org> wrote in message
news:dd7a3c47.0410050339.efad894 at posting.google.com...
> Dear list,
>
> Can anyone explain why the append method here returns an 'unpermuted'
> list (and how to solve it_?
>
> I'm stuck?
>
> s=[]
> def permute(list):
>     len_l = len(list)
>     if len_l == 1:
>         print l
>         s.append(l)
>     for i in range (0, len_l):
>         permute(list[1:])
>         # now change position of first element with next (rotate will do
it?)
>         list.append(list.pop(0))
>         # reflect this change in the main list
>         l[len(l) - len_l:] = list
>
> l=["a","b","c"]
>
> permute(l)

When I run this script, I get the following output:

['a', 'b', 'c']
['a', 'c', 'b']
['b', 'c', 'a']
['b', 'a', 'c']
['c', 'a', 'b']
['c', 'b', 'a']
>>> print l
['a', 'b', 'c']
>>> print s
[['a', 'b', 'c'], ['a', 'b', 'c'], ['a', 'b', 'c'], ['a', 'b', 'c'], ['a',
'b', 'c'], ['a', 'b', 'c']]

What were you expecting?

Here are a few clues:

When you call permute(l), "l" is a global variable that points to the list
["a", "b", "c"].  "list" is a local variable in your function that points to
the *same* list ["a", "b", "c"].  In your function, you use "list" in some
places and "l" in others, but they are both operating on the same list.
This, I strongly suspect, is not what you intended.

(Incidentally, it is legal but not advisable to use the word "list" as a
variable name, since "list" is a built-in identifier in Python, and using it
as a variable name overrides the built-in usage.)

-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From mike at hobbshouse.org  Wed Oct 13 13:23:01 2004
From: mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:23:01 -0000
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4q1.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.4760.1097598524.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10mqp3ltc14o8cc@corp.supernews.com>

Clark C. Evans <cce at clarkevans.com> wrote:
> In general, indentation is great for "outer-structure" that is, 
> delimiting large code blocks.  While delimiter based scoping is good
> for inner structures, small blocks of code.  It should not be an 
> either/or thing, one should properly have the option of using either
> option depending upon which style brings the most clarity.

The Haskell language (http://www.haskell.org) does exactly this. It uses
indentation to infer structure, but the programmer is allowed to explicitly
state structure using semicolons and braces.

- Michael Hobbs



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct  6 11:23:44 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 08:23:44 -0700
Subject: Using select([sys.stdin]) on windows xp
In-Reply-To: <fc30bff.0410060656.58b30487@posting.google.com>
References: <fc30bff.0410060656.58b30487@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041006082008.ED09.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


<snip example code>

> According the the Python docs:
> On Windows, the underlying select() function is provided by the
> WinSock library, and does not handle file desciptors that don't
> originate from WinSock.
> 
> So I was wondering how I can change the code above to run on windows
> xp.  Any help would greatly appreciated.

Check out the windows ctypes or pywin32 libraries.  You can get at
nearly all the underlying system calls with either of those two
libraries, though discovering which call you want may be a bit of a
chore.

 - Josiah



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  8 08:58:05 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:58:05 -0400
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <00ab01c4ad2a$bfe9aa90$ccbefea9@twilliams>
References: <00ab01c4ad2a$bfe9aa90$ccbefea9@twilliams>
Message-ID: <41668EDD.8090808@holdenweb.com>

Tim Williams wrote:

> [apologies if you got this twice]
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at uci.edu>
> 
>>>If you want to use file primitives to read the value back, just create
>>>another one:
>>>
>>>inpt = StringIO.StringIO(firstStringIO.getvalue())
>>>
>>>then you can read the printed output from inpt just like a file.
>>
>>Or even:
>>
>> firstStringIO.seek(0)
>>
>> - Josiah
> 
> 
> Steve, Andrew, Josiah,
> 
> Thanks for your answers.
> 
> The outgoing SMTP is multi-threaded,   so the threads disrupt each other's
> output to the file-like object  if there is any concurrent outgoing mail
> activity.
> 
> Is there anyway I can seperate the output from each thread and capture it ?
> 
> The outgoing threads are started  with
> 
> thread.start_new_thread(outThread,(args,None))
> 
> One thread per out-going message.  Each handles the outgoing message sending
> and error-handling for the message.   I can't talk back to the calling
> thread/class because it is the incoming SMTP part and it is destroyed when
> the remote client connection is dropped.  (The SMTP server is a filtering
> relay)
> 
AT this point I might be tempted to modify the smtplib code so it 
doesn't use sys.stdout for its debug output, but some other object that 
can be passed to SMTP.__init__().

Since sys.stdout is going to be common to all modules, I think you have 
highlighted a weakness in the smtplib debugging paradigm. But if some 
smart type can come up with a better solution I'd love to see it.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119



From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Oct  3 23:32:47 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 03:32:47 GMT
Subject: [OT-Slightly] Sun Micro engineers bashing Java, and mentioning
 Python even Eiffel
In-Reply-To: <9q28d.2727$Vm1.636@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <9q28d.2727$Vm1.636@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <zv38d.2136$UP1.1777@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Adonis wrote:
> I do not know if this was ever posted on here but check this Sun Micro 
> internal memo out:

Yes.  There was a thread in this group on 2003-12-15 titled
"sun memo reveals java's bloat, puts it on a par with python"

One of the followups, from grayrest <at> grayrest . com

 > This was acknowledged by Sun as a real memo that is two years old and
 > that the complaints have been dealt with:

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 27 00:18:53 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:18:53 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410262000.6e34568f@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<940ee3e8.0410262000.6e34568f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1098850733.22370.393.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 21:00 -0700, kartik wrote:
> Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list at python.org>...

> > I'm going to rewrite that last line in English so that perhaps you'll
> > catch on to what you are saying:
> 
> thank u so much 4 your help, but i know what i'm saying without
> assistance from clowns like u. & i dont give a damn about your rules 4
> proper communciation, as long as i'm understood.

It's understood that you are completely dense, if that's what you meant.

> > What *you* need for *your* application isn't necessarily what
> > anyone else needs for theirs.
> 
> the required range, while being different for different variables, is
> generally is less than 2**31 - & *that* can be checked by the
> language.

Do you even know what "generally" means?  Generally for *you* perhaps,
and the 3 toy programs you've written, certainly not for me.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Wed Oct 20 15:19:34 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:19:34 GMT
Subject: testing for uniquness in a large list
References: <pan.2004.10.20.10.01.17.525999@lolmc.com>
	<5c882bb5.0410200830.471a5ea9@posting.google.com>
	<sRydd.12955$sO5.12002@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <aTydd.12971$sO5.9944@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Paul McGuire" <ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> wrote in message
news:sRydd.12955$sO5.12002 at fe1.texas.rr.com...
> "bearophile" <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:5c882bb5.0410200830.471a5ea9 at posting.google.com...
> > Alex Martelli's solution is *very* good, but there is a sampling
> > problem: putting a simple printing inside his program:
> >
> > if not (len(results) % 5000):
> >     print len(results)
> >
> > You can see that it slows down a lot when the dictionary contains
> > about 100000-120000 different sequences, because there are many
> > collisions, and it keeps slowing down. Probably a little speed up of
> > this code cannot help. A different algoritm can be useful.
> > I don't know... direct sequences generation doesn't seem possibile.
> > Maybe a partially direct generation can be okay.
> >
> > Hugs,
> > bearophile
>
> Is part of this slowdown the fact that the loop will exit only when rlen
> reaches 200,000, when you have just shown that it can never be greater
than
> 125,970?
>
> Perhaps some heuristic would opt for using sets instead of random.sample
if
> rlen approaches some threshold value of
> len(seq)!/picklen!(len(seq)-picklen)! , perhaps .8 or so.  There should be
a
> crossover point at which it is cheaper to build a set of all 125,970
> combinations, and then select 100,000 of them using set.pop() (which
selects
> an arbitrary element from the set, and removes it).
>
> -- Paul
>
>
... and of course, raising a MathError if rlen >
len(seq)!/picklen!(len(seq)-picklen)!

-- Paul




From claird at lairds.us  Thu Oct 28 17:08:09 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:08:09 GMT
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5625.1098987033.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fr2852-cj5.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.5625.1098987033.5135.python-list at python.org>,
kosh  <kosh at aesaeion.com> wrote:
>On Thursday 28 October 2004 11:04 am, beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>My experience has been is that while c,c++ etc are faster then python in 
>regular applications I work with python is almost always a good deal faster. 
			.
			.
			.
>I agree that replacing a single function with c and give an increase in speed 
>and that there are classes of things that we have libraries for which give 
>large increases in speed however the point is that all of those things can be 
>called from python easily. So why write an entire program in a lower level 
>language like c,c++, java, c# etc when you can write it in python in far less 
>time? One the python version is done you can profile it, fix speed problems, 
>debug it etc using far less resources. Once you have done all of that you can 
>first use libraries if they exist to speed up  your program if still needed, 
>code parts in a lower level language now that  you know exactly where the 
>speed issues are or use something like psyco. Overall your programs will be 
>far shorter, easier to read, easier to maintain, easier to debug, and just as 
>fast if not faster. In my view just about anything other then a kernel or a 
>device driver is premature optimization to write in a low level language 
>barring other contraints.
>

Me, too.

I recognize the original questioner wants authoritative answers,
preferably from prestigious sources.  Let me assume for a moment
we've accomodated that need.

I want to reinforce one of Kosh's observations:  for real-world
applications, Python is often FASTER than C.  Not at least a 
hundredth as fast, or at least a tenth as fast, but the-customers-
complain-about-the-C-coded-version-but-love-the-Python-based-one:
FASTER.  

Also, I probably have an obligation to remind readers that an
opposition such as "C or Python?" is false in at least one more
way:  we need to think, as Kosh hints, not whether to use one or
the other, but how much of each.  In commercial practice and 
academe, decision-makers will push you to settle on one language.
This is a mistake they make.  Be prepared for it, and understand
how to respond.  Even without heroic polyglotticism, you're
realistically likely to be more successful in your development
when you're ready to combine at least a couple of distinct 
languages judiciously.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 17:56:19 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:56:19 +0200
Subject: Python Patterns
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4162ef68$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote:
   ...
> I really should dust off my old GOF Desing Patterns book,
> because your code made me remember the "state" pattern right away :-)
> 
> There should be a Python version of that book... I think that

Yep -- I've been writing about DPs with/for Python for years now (that's
the invariable background to almost all of my conference talks &c, check
most of them out at www.strakt.com), and one day (once I'm done doing
2nd editions of cookbooks and nutshells;-) I hope to write a book about
that (plus materials on agile programming practices, again with Python
as the explanatory language).  That's what I _wanted_ to write from day
one, but I'm glad it didn't materialize yet... it will be a much better
book for the wait;-).  Meanwhile Robert Martin has already written a
book far closer than any other to what I had in mind -- but he uses C++
and Java as explanatory languages, and _that_ will give MY book enough
of an edge to almost catch up with Uncle Bob's awesome experience and
writing skills...!-)

> the patterns in it are very easily expressed in Python, and
> that Python allows for many other interesting patters ('Borg', to
> name one).

Yep, I'm reasonably familiar with that one;-)

> This "state" pattern needs a clumsy internal state object in C++
> but in Python we can just change the object's class directly,
> which is a much more direct implementation of what the pattern
> tries to achieve :-)

Right, good point.  In C++ you can do something closer with the Strategy
pattern -- still one level of indirectness, but a consistent set of
methods (embodied in the one strategy object) commuted as a whole.
Assigning __class__ IS of course more direct, yes;-).

> Thanks Alex

You're most welcome -- thank YOU for your feedback!


Alex


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Oct 23 00:14:54 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 23:14:54 -0500
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Michael> A few weeks ago, the suggestion was made on Python-Dev that it
    Michael> might be time to consider replacing the ConfigParser module and
    Michael> that we should hold a "shootout" (ie ask for implementations
    Michael> and see what we get).

I put up a parser on my Python bits page and referenced it from the Wiki
Shootout page:

    http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/python/cfgparse.py
    http://www.python.org/moin/ConfigParserShootout

  Features (essentially the doc string):

    * File format is indentation-based (where'd he get that idea???)

    * Both attribute-style and dictionary-style access supported

    * File format is *not* compatible with Windows INI file
      - section introduced by line ending with colon (another brilliant
        coup!)
      - values are specified by simple key = value lines

    * Nesting to arbitrary depths is supported

    * Read and write with round trip, though comments are not currently
    preserved.

    * Proof-of-concept only - there's not much of an api yet - no
    sections(), has_section(), as_dict() methods, etc.  That should be easy
    enough to add later.

    * Typeless - everything's a string.  Python has plenty of ways to
    convert strings to other types of objects.

I wrote it more as an exercise and to satisfy myself that to deal with more
general config structures than Windows INI files supports you don't have to
fall into the XML tarpit.  I suspect it's not more featureful than Michael
Chermside's example implementation though it's somewhat shorter.

Skip


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 17:16:35 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:16:35 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <ckk1mf$9f3$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com> <416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckjkf6$amt$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4882.1097690854.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckk1mf$9f3$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904101314163a4020f8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:03:47 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> > The ordering became (a,b,d,c); and the code would have no way to tell
> > that 'c' was supposed to be classified before 'd', because the
> > getframe trick would return the same line.
> 
> No, it doesn't:

:-P  Oh well, I just missed that Nicolas was using co_names, instead
of line numbering magic as I did in my first tests. :-) Seems he was a
little bit more clever than I was :-)
 
> >>> class Bar:
> ...     a, b, c, d = "xyzt"
> ...     print sys._getframe().f_code.co_names
> ...
> ('__name__', '__module__', 'a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'sys', '_getframe', 'f_code',
> 'co_names')
> 
> whereas
> 
> >>> vars(Bar).keys()
> ['a', '__module__', 'b', 'd', 'c', '__doc__']
> 
> Of course there are other ways to garble the co_names order:
> 
> >>> class Any:
> ...     def __getattr__(self, name): return name
> ...
> >>> any = Any()
> >>> class Bar:
> ...     x = any.d
> ...     a, b, c, d = "xyzt"
> ...     print sys._getframe().f_code.co_names
> ...
> ('__name__', '__module__', 'any', 'd', 'x', 'a', 'b', 'c', 'sys',
> '_getframe', 'f_code', 'co_names')
> 
> All very useless/interesting stuff :-)

Useless, in a sense, yes. But we learned a lot (or at least, I did).
So it was not totally useless...

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Oct  4 14:33:12 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:33:12 -0700
Subject: ActivePython/IIS Request Concurrency
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F28@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Erik Rose wrote:
> Robert Brewer wrote:
> 
> > Insanity is in the mind's eye of the beholder. ;) All I can 
> tell you is
> > that I don't have that problem. But I'm not using 
> ActivePython, just 
> > IIS
> > + pywin32. My first thought was that the "application protection"
> > setting in IIS (process isolation, essentially) might be 
> the culprit,
> > but I tried all three settings without any difficulties on your 
> > script. :(
> 
> :(? More like :-D! I'm not particularly in love with ActivePython; 
> rather, I thought it was the only solution for ASP-embedded Python. 
> Reading a little about pywin32, I see this allusion in one of its 
> source distributions' readmes (pywin32-202/com/win32com/readme.htm):
> 
> "Python continues to work fine as an Active Scripting Engine in all 
> other applications, including Windows Scripting Host, and ASP."
> 
> My stars! Could it be that pywin32 is sufficient to allow Python as a 
> full-fledged ASP language? Is this how you're using it, i.e. not as a 
> CGI or anything? If it works for you, I'm perfectly happy (ecstatic, 
> actually) to match my setup to yours.

It's sufficient. :) Check out
http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/082201-1.shtml for a good intro to
using pywin32 for ASP.

FWIW, I don't use ASP for anything more than an envelope for "real"
Python scripts. The extent of my Python-in-ASP looks like:

<%@Language=Python%>
<%
from cation.html.uiasp import UserInterfaceASP
import mcontrol

ui = UserInterfaceASP(mcontrol.application)
ui.sandbox = mcontrol.arena.new_sandbox()
ui.request(Request, Response)
ui.sandbox.flush_all()
%>

All the heavy lifting is done by my "cation" web framework. You can do
the same with almost any Python web framework, I'd bet. Such a scheme
can keep you from tearing your hair out trying to mix Python indentation
rules with HTML's lack of such.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Oct 21 11:56:09 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:56:09 -0500
Subject: Pymacs problem
Message-ID: <16759.56345.564308.396146@montanaro.dyndns.org>

I'm trying to use the Pymacs bridge to add a symbol completion facility to
Emacs's python-mode.  Neither the Python nor Emacs Lisp portions are all
that complex, but I'm having trouble passing a list of strings from Emacs
Lisp into Python.  On the Emacs Lisp side it looks like this:

    (pymacs-load "pycomplete")

    (defun py-complete ()
      (interactive)
      (pycomplete-pycomplete (py-symbol-near-point)
                             (py-find-global-imports)))

(py-find-global-imports) returns a (Lisp) list of strings, e.g.:

    ("import time", "import sys")

On the Python side I have this function:

    def pycomplete(s, imports=None):
        completions = get_all_completions(s, imports)
        dots = s.split(".")
        return os.path.commonprefix([k[len(dots[-1]):] for k in completions])

Unfortunately, the imports arg does not come across as a Python list of
strings (s does come across the bridge as a normal Python string).  Its
repr() prints out like this:

    lisp('("import time")')

What do I need to do to convert that object into a true Python list of
strings?  I'm afraid I don't quite understand the description of the lisp
object in the Pymacs docs.  I tried imports.value() but that just gave me

    (aref pymacs-lisp 0)

Any help appreciated...

Skip


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 10 17:50:17 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:50:17 +0200
Subject: PIL question - saving JPEG
References: <mphad.42310$a85.20380@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <ckcamp$qk0$1@sea.gmane.org>

"news.west.cox.net" wrote:

>I have a fairly simple Python program that uses Image and ImageDraw to create poll results on the 
>fly.
>
> Because PIL only supports 256 colors for GIF and BMPs are huge (in comparison)... I have opted to 
> create JPEGs.
>
> I have installed JPEG-6b and have checked to see that all of the libraries are in the correct, 
> expected places.  But, I am still getting the following error.
>
> IOError: encoder jpeg not available

have you verified that PIL's build process was able to find and link against
the JPEG libraries?  here's how to fix this in 1.1.4 and earlier:

    http://effbot.org/zone/pil-decoder-jpeg-not-available.htm

for 1.1.5, setting the JPEG_ROOT variable in the setup.py file should do
the trick.  see comments in that file for details.

</F> 





From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Thu Oct 28 17:24:08 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:24:08 +0200
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
In-Reply-To: <fr2852-cj5.ln1@lairds.us>
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5625.1098987033.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fr2852-cj5.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <41816378$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> I want to reinforce one of Kosh's observations:
[...]


I hope that you both don't mind that I've taken the liberty
of putting a large part of your replies here, on the Python
wiki page: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonSpeed
I thought that they were very appropriate.

--Irmen


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Oct 13 06:26:01 2004
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 03:26:01 -0700
Subject: Snakelets and WSGI
References: <mailman.4769.1097609657.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416c3fb2$0$566$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <5339b60d.0410130226.366936aa@posting.google.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<416c3fb2$0$566$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> Pardon my ignorance, but would it be feasible for a server such
> as Snakelets to implement both the WSGI API, *and* the existing
> 'native' API?

I suppose so. Really, as far as I understand the WSGI proposal, the
WSGI API is interesting mostly for plugging existing frameworks and
servers into various server technologies. Having the Snakelets server
expose the WSGI API isn't particularly interesting for application
developers in itself, but it would allow someone to run a Webware
environment on top, for example.

Now, running a *complete* Webware environment on top of the *complete*
Snakelets environment may be of questionable benefit, but the
rationale behind WSGI is that you'll eventually separate the actual
server code from the framework code, expose the WSGI API from your
server code, and have your framework code use that API when it deals
with HTTP communication. Ultimately, it's claimed that all the
different frameworks and servers will be interoperable - applications
using Snakelets, Webware and other WSGI-dependent frameworks will run
on the Snakelets server and other WSGI-compliant servers.

It has been said that various people are looking into supporting WSGI
in their frameworks, but that obviously still leaves the whole matter
of framework-level standardisation out of the picture. My small
contribution on that front is the WebStack package which provides a
common API for a number of the more popular frameworks and
technologies:

http://www.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&name=WebStack

Of course, WebStack support for WSGI could potentially be implemented,
too, but for now the only practical way to deploy cross-framework
applications is to use one of the framework-specific adapters provided
by WebStack. Perhaps only a WSGI adapter will ever be needed in the
distant future, however.

Paul


From achrist at easystreet.com  Sun Oct  3 09:49:18 2004
From: achrist at easystreet.com (Al Christians)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 06:49:18 -0700
Subject: Python and C#
Message-ID: <10m2la510rpeq86@corp.supernews.com>

For regrettable reasons irrelevant to the content of this
newsgroup,  I've some need to get some experience with C#.
My plan for doing this involves writing some parts of some
applications in C# as COM servers and hooking them to python
via COM.

Looking for advice on this as a course of action.  Obviously,
I'm not doing this for fun, but for some reasons that are
supported by base workaday considerations.  Will this work?
What are the biggest hassles in making it work?  Any
pitfalls?

If I get this to work well, next I want to make it easy for
users to install and run the apps.  I haven't tried to
package any python apps in about a year.  Which packaging
package is better now for this -- py2exe, McMillan's, or
something else?  I want the end-users with no python on
their Windows machine to run a simple and non-descript
installer and then be up and running with my app, no
problems.

TIA much for sagacity from anyone who's been there,
done that.


Al


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 31 05:18:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:18:28 +0200
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<4183f2b0$0$209$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<2uiaqmF2as1ihU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<4184c277$0$265$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<87brejqhr0.fsf@chat.blakie.riol>
Message-ID: <1gmisfp.127n2d2urur1yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Wilk <wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net> wrote:
   ...
> > Yes, I know that. But know that is both .net and mono, why parrot?
> 
> It was java, why .net and mono...
> And finaly, there is python, why java ;-) ?

Sun had its own motivations, of course -- for example, they wanted C-ish
syntax and compiletime typing.  That's generally the kind of motivations
for each new language invention -- a desire for a different mix of
features from the existing ones.

New VMs generally have different motivations, tied to performance more
than to features per se.  Though I could see wanting a new VM for such
reasons as supporting some new and different threading model, say.


Alex


From 1 at 2.3  Thu Oct 21 21:38:36 2004
From: 1 at 2.3 (User)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 01:38:36 GMT
Subject: Any builtin function that can dial up ISP and/or log off?
Message-ID: <0pogn0h1rf7ciol4kus4arloieqih1akth@4ax.com>

I am looking for a function that can dial up an ISP, connect and/or
log off through a Python script running under windows.  I looked in
socket, but didn't find anything that looks promising.  Any
suggestions?  If it is just an executable file belonging to windows
that I need to run, just tell me what the file is and I'll write a
script to run it.  Thanks.


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Oct 11 11:21:24 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:21:24 -0400
Subject: Python to Python communication
In-Reply-To: <Xns957F95400C53Ecpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
References: <Xns957F95400C53Ecpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
Message-ID: <DvydnWc7XrtvOffcRVn-vg@giganews.com>

Harald Massa wrote:

 > I have a group of Python programs which I want
 > to teach to "talk to each other".

> What library have you used and would recommend?

I think this depends on what exactly the nature of
the "communication".Do you want to send data across or
functionality.

XMLRPC and pyro are about sharing behavior:
functions or methods.

If you need to keep a connection open and keep
exchanging raw data, then sockets might make more sense.

Istvan.


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 25 15:23:12 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:23:12 +0200
Subject: fastest table lookup
References: <mailman.5439.1098729682.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cljjpt$7hb$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Neal D. Becker wrote:

> I need a fairly small lookup table, and I'm wondering which data python
> data
> structure would be fastest.  I could use a list, tuple, dictionary,
> numeric
> array, or maybe plain python array.  The table would be indexed by simple
> integers and would be dense (filled).

Here are some 2.3 timings to give you a head start:

$ python timeit.py -s"a = [1]" "a[0]"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.177 usec per loop
$ python timeit.py -s"a = 1," "a[0]"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.196 usec per loop
$ python timeit.py -s"a = {0:1}" "a[0]"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.21 usec per loop

Peter



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Thu Oct 14 09:59:32 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:59:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4q1.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.4760.1097598524.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mqqdho6uojj6a@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4898.1097694574.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mri2t9ldsatf5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ckm0o4$30$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
...
> To be honest, if I were worrying about programming costs, I'd be looking 
> at the time I'd spend trying to refactor my problem into something where 
> I could use (perhaps curried versions of) more generic callbacks.  That 
> might be a pretty significant investment of time, actually.  Of course, 
> it might (or might not) pay off with a cleaner and clearer overall 
> architecture...   But perhaps this is a particular weakness of mine, 
> where I want to try to generalize things as much as practical.

I'd be looking at the time spent posting to newsgroups.


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 27 04:21:54 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:21:54 -0700
Subject: Please help - get average
In-Reply-To: <417F575F.5030101@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19CC4@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>
	<mailman.5548.1098863403.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417F575F.5030101@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1098865314.22370.439.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 09:07 +0100, Robin Becker wrote:
> Cliff Wells wrote:
> ......
> > 
> > total = 0.0
> > count = 0
> > number = None
> > 
> > while number not in ('q', 'Q'):
> >     number = raw_input("Enter a number (or Q to quit): ")
> >     try:
> >         number = float(number)
> >     except ValueError:
> >         continue
> >     total += number
> >     count += 1
> > 
> > print "The average is:", total / count
> > 
> ...... interestingly the standard algorithms for means/deviations are 
> numerically poor. As an example
> 
>  >>> (1.e30+1-1.0e30)/3
> 0.0
> 
> Where we have total loss of information in one of the terms.
> 
> 
> There are better algorithms involving recursion,
> 
> eg
> 
>     mu[n] = (data[n]+(n-1)*mu[n-1])/n
> 
> The error in the existing estimate, mu[n-1], gets multiplied by the 
> number (n-1)/n which is less than one (ie the errors are damped).
> 
> However, in the case of widely differing magnitudes I think you need to 
> accumulate the sums specially.

Luckily I'm a programmer not a mathematician, so most days I can happily
continue averaging things the way I did in grade school.  And if
something goes wrong, well I can always count on there being only 32
bits in an integer and just catch the error there <wink>.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Sun Oct 24 14:16:50 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:16:50 +0200
Subject: how do i change from string to list
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>

str='spot'

lst = [] # declare the list first
for letter in str:
    lst.append(letter) # append to the list

print lst

result: ['s', 'p', 'o', 't']

cheerz,
Ivo.


"john" <miodio67 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db at posting.google.com...
> I have the following
>
> s = "spot"
>
> which I would like to change to a list
>
> l = ['s','p','o','t']
>
> I have tried  l = eval(s) but I get the error
>
> File "<string>", line 1, in ?
> NameError: spot
>
> thank you all for your time




From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Oct 27 16:09:28 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:09:28 GMT
Subject: Can not get urllib.urlopen to work
In-Reply-To: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
References: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <YfTfd.4182$kM.3319@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Pater Maximus wrote:

> I am trying to implement the recipe listed at
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/211886
> 
> However, I can not get to first base. When I try to run
> 
> import urllib
> fo=urllib.urlopen("http://www.dictionary.com/")
> page = fo.read()

I can't even connect to it with my web browser.  Can you?
If you can, they are probably checking the user-agent sent
by urllib, to make it harder to do this sort of automated
screen scraping.

See the docs at
  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-urllib.html

for an example of how to change the default user-agent.

Here's one for MSIE under Win2K

   Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0)

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com  Sat Oct 30 05:39:32 2004
From: dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com (Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:39:32 +0200
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnco6oak.nn.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>

Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
> Perl is going to change dramatically to become a more powerful and
> easier to (read|write) language.

Why do you say this? Did you read the whole Apocalypses? Anyway 15 days ago
freshmeat published this:
http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/1339/

Maybe, it's not that easier to read or write.

> Is Python taking a similar step (-> Python 3) some time in the near future?

Why? What do you need to do in python that you can't do right now? Isn't it
read-write friendly enough?

Perl6 is, currently, a 4 year development effort that no one knows when will
be ended (I even read that it will take another 4 years), maybe, if it takes
so much to develop just the first version, it's really too complicated.

-- 
Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Now running FreeBSD 5.3-beta7
Blog: http://vvolonghi.blogspot.com



From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 09:34:51 2004
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 06:34:51 -0700
Subject: Compiling to a library, instead of an executable?
References: <2004102422013016807%dimator@gmailcom>
Message-ID: <283adf56.0410250534.252e480b@posting.google.com>

What a great idea.  You need sort of an 'anti-swig' tool to autmoate
things.  That doesn't yet exist, but Pyrex might be a manual solution:

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:XiaAAKN0szgJ:www.freenet.org.nz/python/embeddingpyrex/+pyrex+python&hl=en

Please keep us abreast of what you find.


From timr at probo.com  Thu Oct  7 01:25:51 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 22:25:51 -0700
Subject: binary numbers
References: <cjv58g$q5i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<E62dnZKZl9wKvP7cRVn-gw@comcast.com>
	<41632549$0$230$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<cjvak0$4e3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <5ik9m05rqsm0h9rjbqm8k7kil91fu2tbit@4ax.com>

Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I Forgot that I'm asking a bunch of CS geeks a 
>question about "binary"... I mean "bianry" as in 
>the base 2 representation of numbers... One is one 
>is one, but one can be represented in different 
>bases and still be one... get it?

Not inside a computer, it can't.

>Dec	Bin
>1		1
>2		10
>3		11
>4		100
>5		101
>6		110
>...
>How do I pass the binary representation of a 
>number to a function???

I'm afraid that it is YOU that does not understand.

Binary is the ONLY representation used inside a computer.  When you see the
number "5", it is because a utility function has neatly converted the
binary value in a variable or register to an ASCII format that your human
brain can comprehend.  ALL of the following things are equivalent:

   x = 15
   x = 037
   x = 0x0f
   x = 6+9
   x = len("abcdefghijklmno")

In every case, the variable "x" will contain the binary value 000..0000101,
again because a utility function has neatly converted the human-convenient
forms above into a binary value.

The registry type REG_BINARY does not really mean binary.  It means an
arbitrary array of bytes.  The only difference between REG_BINARY and
REG_SZ is that a REG_BINARY value can contain zeros, and is displayed
differently in a registry dump.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de  Thu Oct  7 03:31:44 2004
From: klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de (Klaus Neuner)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 00:31:44 -0700
Subject: re bug
References: <3e96ebd7.0410050057.29a15174@posting.google.com>	<3e96ebd7.0410052341.113f75c5@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4423.1097071279.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3e96ebd7.0410062331.4f1a40b6@posting.google.com>

> If you're waiting a long time, your expression isn't matching. Try to
> use "mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:2:3" as the last term of your third expression.
> It executes in 0.045 seconds here.

You are right. Sorry, I thaught I had tried it with
"mm/mm/cn:nom:akk:2:3" as last term, too.

Klaus


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 25 23:59:17 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:59:17 -0400
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
In-Reply-To: <WZ6dnefmlo_WWODcRVn-ig@giganews.com>
References: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<468v42-c23.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	<ffd90607.0410251420.15c038cb@posting.google.com>
	<WZ6dnefmlo_WWODcRVn-ig@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <417DCB95.1020004@holdenweb.com>

Istvan Albert wrote:

> Samir Patel wrote:
> 
>> I hope in future people will be more respectful to all those heros who
>> works so much for python community.
> 
> 
> Hero or not remains to be seen, but there is nothing
> wrong in voicing a contradictory opinion, and
> such opinions should never be put down with *patriotic*
> arguments as the one above.
> 
> Istvan.
> 
If only the American presidential election were being conducted in this 
spirit ...

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 11:49:06 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:49:06 +0200
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<du7fz4n6ozx.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<41695425$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1glhz5t.k4p1lz19jdab0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416a9808$0$416$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1gli329.1qeu9p019vpx9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416aa489$0$5677$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1gli5sv.8jaig1dvszrgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

> On 2004-10-11, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >> Surely they must coerce the operands for the "test" part if not
> >> for the "return" part.
> >
> > We may have different conceptions about the meaning of the word
> > "coerce", perhaps...?  For example, Python may be doing len(x) when I
> > use x in a boolean context,
> 
> I guess I was assuming Python was doing the equivalent of
> bool(x) when x was used as an operand of a logical operator.
> That's coercion to me.

Well, Python is doing just the same thing it was doing before 'bool' was
introduced (in 2.2.1, I think) -- Truth Value Testing.  I believe a very
similar transition happened, for example, in the C++ language: any
number or pointer was and still is acceptable in a "condition" context
(e.g., for C, 'if(x) ...').  That used to be quite different from
coercions.  Then a 'bool' type was introduced -- the language still kept
doing exactly the same thing for 'if(x)' and the like, but even though
nothing was changed, it ``feels'' taxonomically different (in C++ the
case is stronger, because a new 'operator bool' was also introduced; and
with it new and important pitfalls, cfr
<http://www.artima.com/cppsource/safebool.html> ).

 
> > but I sure don't see computing len(x) as "coercing" anything.
> > To me, Coercion, in Python, is what's documented at
> > <http://docs.python.org/ref/coercion-rules.html> and is quite
> > a different concept from Truth Value Testing, which is
> > documented at <http://docs.python.org/lib/truth.html>.
> 
> I guess I'm misusing the term coercion (at least in a Python
> context).  To _me_ operands of logical operators are being
> coerced to boolean.

Didactically, I still prefer to say they're "being truth-value tested",
because the concept of a hypothetical coercion which happens during the
testing then "un-happens" to determine the result is just impossible to
get across -- even if I thought it somehow more correct or preferable,
which I don't.  Note, again, that in C++ the case to consider
truth-value testing as coercion is stronger, because && and ||
(shortcircuiting logical operators) _DO_ undertake to always return a
bool, when applied to C++'s built-in types.  I consider this a
suboptimal decision, prompting people to code 'x?x:y' or 'x?y:x' where
they might have coded, more simply, x||y or x&&y respectively, were it
not for the coercion which the latter forms imply.

BTW, if you consider a form such as 'x?x:y', which is a better match for
the semantics of Python's 'x or y' than C++'s || operator, you will see
why speaking of operandS (plural) as being 'coerced' is surely
misleading.  Under _no_ conceivable circumstances is the RHS operand
subject to any operation whatsoever by 'x or y'.  Whatever "coercion"
is, it definitely cannot be happening here on y.  Similarly for the
analogous 'x and y' -- never is any operation at all done on y.

Truth Value Testing (which you want to call coercion) happens on the
first (LHS) operand, but not on the second (RHS) one, ever...


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 09:44:08 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:44:08 +0200
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<4164f407$0$5963$d4d0a361@news.speedlinq.nl>
	<1glag26.95flqcwuwn89N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4494.1097149702.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glam3h.1tvn7tboc1mahN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andreas Kostyrka <andreas at kostyrka.org> wrote:
   ...
> > for counter, line in enumerate(f):
> >     if counter == lines-1: is_last_line(line)
> >     else: is_ordinary_line(line)
> > 
> > If the file's possibly too big to read comfortably in memory, of course,
> > other suggestions based on generators &c are preferable.

> This should do it "right":
> 
> f = file("/etc/passwd")
> fi = iter(f)
> 
> def inext(i):
>     try:
>         return i.next()
>     except StopIteration:
>         return StopIteration
> 
> next = inext(fi)
> while next <> StopIteration:
>     line = next
>     next = inext(fi)
>     if next == StopIteration:
>         print "LAST USER", line.rstrip()
>     else:
>         print "NOT LAST", line.rstrip()

I think the semantics are correct, but I also believe the control
structure in the "application code" is too messy.  A generator lets you
code a simple for loop on the application side of things, and any
complexity stays where it should be, inside the generator.  Haven't read
the other posts proposing generators, but something like:

def item_and_lastflag(sequence):
    it = iter(sequence)
    next = it.next()
    for current in it:
        yield next, False
        next = current
    yield next, True

lets you code, application-side:

for line, is_last in item_and_lastflag(open('/etc/passwd')):
    if is_last: print 'Last user:', line.rstrip()
    else print: 'Not last:', line.rstrip()

Not only is the application-side loop crystal-clear; it appears to me
that the _overall_ complexity is decreased, not just moved to the
generator.


Alex


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Tue Oct 26 13:43:30 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:43:30 -0400
Subject: comparing multiple copies of terrabytes of data?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5517.1098807918.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5446.1098734965.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Y6adnT9_jr6Ny-PcRVn-hQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.5517.1098807918.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rcadne61o99eEePcRVn-gA@giganews.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> measure, if shy by around 3 orders of magnitude in terms of time.

> That new one runs in 5 minutes 15 seconds total, because it exploits the

my point was never to say that it is not possible to write
a better way, nor to imply that you could not do it, I simply
said that there is no easy way around this problem.

Your solution while short and nice is not simple, and
requires quite a bit of knowledge to understand
why and how it works.

other topic ... sometimes I have a hard time visualizing how much
a terrabyte of data actually is, this is a good example
for that, even this optimized algorithm would take over three
days to perform a a simple identity check ...

Istvan.



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Mon Oct 25 19:56:38 2004
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 09:56:38 +1000
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <1098746958.22370.116.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>
	<1098746958.22370.116.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <1098748598.18822.319.camel@emilio>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 09:29, Cliff Wells wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 08:37 +1000, Tim Churches wrote:
> > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 01:16, Grant Edwards wrote:
> > > Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
> > > in site-packages) in an application.
> > > 
> > > Let's also say I use py2exe to package and distribute said
> > > application.
> > > 
> > > Is what I'm distributing a "derived work" of the GPL'd python?
> > > Or is py2exe's packaging of the module's .pyc file and my
> > > application code's .pyc files a "mere aggregation" so that I
> > > only have to provide source code for the GPL'ed module and not
> > > for my application code?
> > 
> > See the GPL FAQ at
> > http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#MereAggregation :
> 
> If this interpretation is true, then I suppose I'm going to have to
> reassess my position on the GPL and agree with Microsoft <gasp> that the
> GPL is "viral".  I had always dismissed this claim as pure FUD, but the
> following gives pause:
> 
> '''                
> By contrast, pipes, sockets and command-line arguments are communication
> mechanisms normally used between two separate programs. So when they are
> used for communication, the modules normally are separate programs. But
> if the semantics of the communication are intimate enough, exchanging
> complex internal data structures, that too could be a basis to consider
> the two parts as combined into a larger program.
> '''
> 
> If this is true, I can't think of any way for a program to run on a
> GPL'd system (such as Linux) without becoming GPL'd itself (Unless it
> doesn't do any I/O or malloc any memory <wink>). 

Yes. It seems to be them is some dissonance between these two positions:

"It is OK for a closed-source application to allocate memory on a system
running the GPLed Linux kernel"

and

"It is not OK for a GPL-incompatible Python application to import GPLed
code into the runtime namespace it is using."

I shudder to think what a judge and jury would make of such a
distinction. 
-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0





From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 14:22:41 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 18:22:41 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-25, marcus at deepfort.com <marcus at deepfort.com> wrote:

>>Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
>>in site-packages) in an application.
>>
>>Let's also say I use py2exe to package and distribute said
>>application.
>>
>>Is what I'm distributing a "derived work" of the GPL'd python?
>>Or is py2exe's packaging of the module's .pyc file and my
>>application code's .pyc files a "mere aggregation" so that I
>>only have to provide source code for the GPL'ed module and not
>>for my application code?
>>
>>IOW, do I have to GPL my application code and distribute source
>>code for it?

> Why don't you just GPL the whole lot? Headache over, and a
> warm fuzzy feeling in its place.

I haven't said I won't. :) That said, providing a mechanism for
people to get the source does impose some overhead and cost.
And then there's the time/cost associated with supporting the
GPL'd source code _after_ you've provided somebody with it.

> If your work could be used to extend or wrap the module,

It doesn't.

> it's possible someone else may find it useful...

I doubt it, but you never know.

> Notwithstanding, obviously, any considerations you might have
> that would stop you, that's what I'd do - besides which, if
> you're benefiting from GPL stuff, give something back..

I do try, though it isn't always accepted.  The last set of
patches I submitted to gcc were declined. :( 

You will find code by me in the socket and pyserial modules, in
gcc, binutils, gdb, fetchmail, rcs, mutt, and probably others
which I have forgotten.

> go on, you know you want to.. :-)

I also wrote a ladder diagram editor and a compiler
code-generator which are GPL'd.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I always liked FLAG
                                  at               DAY!!
                               visi.com            


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Oct 14 13:58:57 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:58:57 +0200
Subject: from dict to member vars...?
References: <mailman.4962.1097776621.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckmeos$ghr$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Christopher J. Bottaro wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Lets say I have a class instance with the following member vars:  var1, x,
> size.  Now lets say I have dict with the following keys:  var1, x, size.
> Is there an easy way to *automatically* assign all the values in the dict
> to corresponding (member) vars of the same name as the dict keys?

d = dict(...)

for key, val in d.items():
   setattr(o, key, val)

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From tismer at stackless.com  Wed Oct 20 13:51:31 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:51:31 +0200
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
Message-ID: <4176A5A3.6010101@stackless.com>

Dear community,

I would love to publish Stackless 3.1, of course.
Also I know that there is some inherent bug in it.

I'm seeking a person who would take the job to
find the buglet. He would need to debug and
nail down a commercial application, which I cannot
make public. (S)He would need to sign an NDA with me.

The success payment would be $500. If the problem
shows up to be very hard (to some undefined definition
of very hard, to be negotiated), it can be increased
to $1000.

If my app works afterwards, Stackless 3.1 is just fine.
If it doesn't work, no payment happens.
The identified problem needs to be documented by a
reprodicuble test case.

If somebody is interested, please contact me privately.
And be aware, this is really no easy stuff. You need to
be a real hardcore system hacker with many years of
experience.

Here is the CVS path to the dev trunk:
CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous at stackless.com:/home/cvs
cvs co slpdev/src/2.3/dev

The cheapest complete solution wins. Hurry up :-)

Sincerely -- chris
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
tismerysoft GmbH             :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Carmerstr. 2                 :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
10623 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 31 86 04 18  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/



From foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid  Mon Oct  4 16:21:21 2004
From: foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid (Thomas Rast)
Date: 04 Oct 2004 22:21:21 +0200
Subject: Reclaiming (lots of) memory
References: <87lleo6hva.fsf@thomas.local>
	<slrncm281h.cs.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<7xbrfirc9r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrncm2j0h.csu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <87pt3y44la.fsf@thomas.local>

Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> writes:

> Paul Rubin <> wrote:
> >  But I think it used much more than 4 MB of memory if you count the
> >  amount of system cache that held that dbm file.
> 
> The dbm file is only 10 MB though, so thats 10MB of memory extra used
> which *is* reclaimable!

Just to clear this up, the problem isn't that the process takes too
much memory while initializing.  The machine that runs it has 256MB
RAM, and for all I care it can fill all available memory (when the
logfiles have grown to about four times what they are today, it
will...).  The problem was that it wouldn't free *unused* RAM after
initialization.

Anyway, it works now.  Thanks for your help Nick and Paul!

- Thomas

-- 
If you want to reply by mail, substitute my first and last name for
'foo' and 'bar', respectively, and remove '.invalid'.


From ksenia at ksenia.nl  Wed Oct 20 16:37:50 2004
From: ksenia at ksenia.nl (Ksenia Marasanova)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:37:50 +0200
Subject: library for writing / reading iCalendar files
Message-ID: <E8C5B8AE-22D7-11D9-ABE4-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>

Is libical (http://sourceforge.net/projects/freeassociation/) the way 
to go?
Or maybe anyone aware of alternatives?

Thanks,
Ksenia.



From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Tue Oct 26 18:42:21 2004
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:42:21 -0400
Subject: Python and generic programming
In-Reply-To: <417ec5c5$0$30592$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5321.1098456297.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u45bhF263o38U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5430.1098718895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u74k3F277sd4U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<417ec5c5$0$30592$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <npAfd.128$Qy.108@fe39.usenetserver.com>

Christophe Cavalaria wrote:
> Oliver Fromme wrote:
> 
>>The appropriate type checking is done at compile time.  That
>>is, if your program calls sort with two lists of different
>>type (e.g. a list of strings and a list of ints), then the
>>compiler will detect that and report an error.
> 
> 
> This must be a bad example because I expect to be able to sort a list of
> integers and a list of strings with the same sort function.

You can, actually:

# let l = ["foo"; "bar"; "baz"; "etc"];;
val l : string list = ["foo"; "bar"; "baz"; "etc"]
# sort l;;
- : string list = ["bar"; "baz"; "etc"; "foo"]

# sort [5; 7; 3; -3; 0; 8; 12];;
- : int list = [-3; 0; 3; 5; 7; 8; 12]

...so I don't really understand what Oliver meant by that statement. 
The sort function will not work on lists that have different types in 
them, but that's a different issue.

-- 
Hans Nowak
http://zephyrfalcon.org/



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 16 11:33:30 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:33:30 -0700
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02>
Message-ID: <20041016083238.09D2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> I have a number of strings, containing wildcards (e.g. 'abc#e#' where # 
> is anything), which I want to match with a test string (e.g 'abcdef'). 
> What would be the best way for me to store my strings so lookup is as 
> fast as possible?

Start with a Trie, and virtually merge branches as necessary.

 - Josiah



From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct  4 23:19:05 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:19:05 -0400
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <4161a7e3$0$80627$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>	<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4161a7e3$0$80627$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
Message-ID: <416212A9.2030300@fastmail.fm>


>I've not used ObjC - a code fragment with a brief explanation would
>probably help. (That description matches too many possible use cases
>and solutions... :) Posting a fragment *might* also jog someone's memory
>to be able to say "that's already implemented -- here" :-)
>
>  
>
Code fragment:

[Dog fetch:cat]  ---> Dog doesn't know how to fetch cat  --->  Dog 
passes message to human and essentially makes the following call ---> 
[Human fetch:cat]  ----> and so forth


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 09:47:32 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 06:47:32 -0700
Subject: Completely INNOCENT Indentation question
In-Reply-To: <1b347673.0410130532.63199a4a@posting.google.com>
References: <1b347673.0410130532.63199a4a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1097675252.12092.122.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 06:32 -0700, valued customer wrote:
> Is there a way in python to indicate that you want your 
> "base level of indentation" to be four spaces instead of
> zero?
> 
> As far as I know now, the only way is by introducing some
> sort of language statement, for example:
> 
> if (1):
>     ### begin python script
>     foo = 1
>     bar = 2
>     print foo
>     print bar
> 
> Is there a way to accomplish this without introducing
> the "throwaway if statement" ??

I don't think so.  Just out of curiosity, why would you want to do that?
If you're unable to see the leftmost characters, just try dragging your
editor window a bit to the right <wink>

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com  Fri Oct 29 02:33:05 2004
From: werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com (Werner Merkl)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:33:05 +0200
Subject: py2exe and CD-ROM ISO Level 1
In-Reply-To: <654v3r4f.fsf@python.net>
References: <clqm4e$jd8$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com> <654v3r4f.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <clso6t$8mu$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:

> Werner Merkl <werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>
>>[still looking for a solution]
>>
>>we have written a Python EXE program, which should run via AUTORUN.INF
>>from a CD/DVD (Windows of course).
>>
>>For this CD/DVD we us a imaging tool from Microsoft, which seam to
>>generate a pure ISO 9660 level 1 image.
>>
>>This means:
>>  - Only upper case letters A-Z and numbers 0-9
>>  - 8.3 file names
>>
>>For Python 2.2 and py2exe 0.4.1 this worked fine. Today, it does not.
>>
>>So:
>>  - Is there an option to generate a py2exe program with PYTHONCASE set?
>>  - Or do I need a wrapper? (My own C program, setting the environment
>>             and then starting the Python EXE program.)
>>  - Is there a tricky way to start up with code like
>>       "import OS as os"?
>>  - May I use my own case insensitive importer?
>>  - Or do I need to recompile Python?
> 
> 
> What errors exactly do you get?
> 
> Although I have posted before that this wouldn't work, currently I
> believe that it *should* work.
> I tried the 'simple' sample in the py2exe distro, which contains a
> trvivial command line program, plus a simple wxPython program, wrote
> them to an ISO level 1 CD, and it worked.
> 
> 1. The python modules are imported from the zip file, as long as this
> has an 8.3 name, all should be fine.
> 
> 2. Extension modules are loaded with imp.load_dynamic (custom loaders
> are created for them, in py2exe\build_exe.py, the create_loader method).
> As far as I can see, imp.load_dynamic(module_name, file_name) should
> work independent of the case or spelling of 'file_name'.  If the
> extensions you need have filenames with more than 8 characters, you
> could probably subclass the build_exe command.
> 
> Thomas

Hi,

I recompiled my application as a console program and got following error 
message:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\>e:\AUTORUN.EXE
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "D:\PROGS\Python23\lib\site-packages\py2exe\boot_common.py", 
line 69, in ?
     import linecache
zipimport.ZipImportError: can't decompress data; zlib not available
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "AutoRun.py", line 54, in ?
zipimport.ZipImportError: can't decompress data; zlib not available
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

so I removed "compressed": 1, from setup.py and it WORKS!!!
This seems to be a bug in py2exe ????

Thanks a lot
Werner

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------- part of setup.py  ------------------------------
[...]
setup(
     options = {"py2exe": {# create a compressed zip archive
                           "compressed": 1,
                           "optimize": 2,
                           "packages": ["encodings"],
                           "excludes": excludes}},
     # The lib directory contains everything except the executables and
     #  the python dll.
     # Can include a subdirectory name.
     zipfile = "lib/shared.zip",
     data_files = [('bin',glob.glob("bin/*")),
                   ('.',['AUTORUN.INF','ReadMe.txt'])],

##    windows = [AutoRun],
     console = [AutoRun],
     )


From tonino.greco at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 04:25:37 2004
From: tonino.greco at gmail.com (TAG)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:25:37 +0200
Subject: Collapse a list and eval ??
In-Reply-To: <505f13c04100801236c317885@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5db3bf0004100801206674f49a@mail.gmail.com>
	<505f13c04100801236c317885@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5db3bf00041008012516682552@mail.gmail.com>

oohh - damn - forgot the join ;)
THANKS ;)

sometimes the simplest solution is often overlooked ;)



On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:23:18 +0800, limodou <limodou at gmail.com> wrote:
> data_collapsed = [''.join(data)]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:20:05 +0200, TAG <tonino.greco at gmail.com> wrote:
> > HI,
> >
> > If I have a list :
> >
> > data=['round', '(', '(', 12345, '*', '-', '0.0025', ')', ',', '2', ')', '']
> >
> > how can I collapse it so that it becomes:
> > data_collapsed=['round((12345*-0.0025),2)']
> >
> > and then run an eval() on it ?
> >
> > Am I doing this the right way ?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Tonino
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> 
> --
> I like python!
>


From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Fri Oct  1 09:15:51 2004
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:15:51 +0200
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <MJednUj3F8J40MDcRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<MJednUj3F8J40MDcRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <415D5887.4060206@cenix-bioscience.com>

Hello,

          Just out of interest - which tecan robot were you interfacing 
to - every Tecan robot that I've ever programmed comes with a high level 
API (Toolbox, Gemini, Logic, WinWash, Magellen).  I would think however 
that controlling a tecan robot in the environment that it is typically 
being used in (life sciences R+D) is not industrial control (its my job 
BTW!).  It's not like making milk....

    IMHO, I think that Python is not a suitable piece of software for 
industrial control as it has poor support for bytes (a string shouldn't 
be used to store bytes!) and also bit twiddling is difficult (people who 
ask about his on the Python newsgroup are usually shouted at).  The 
other thing that is a problem for python in this is that it is very 
difficult in python to make your your client is aware of all the errors 
that you can throw and as you know, when controlling equipment there is 
a lot of things that are out of your control (an exception that is 
rarely thrown will often not be caught if the programmer never sees it 
running and gets lazy). 
    This is why checked exceptions (as they said in Fantastic Four - 
flame on!) in this area are very handy because you are forcing the 
non-expert to actively think about these use cases.  One thing that 
python is good for in this area is comms and threading, the GIL which is 
usually a pain in the arse makes multi-threaded IO heavy apps a little 
easier to write - although I still spent about 2 days trying to work out 
how to make a variable volatile (culminating in understanding the 
threading module!).  The serial module is good but I think that a model 
of input and output streams with listeners/observers would make far more 
sense, currently I have to make a polling loop to receive the data, the 
reason for this is that a machine may send serial data with being 
prompted and this obviously needs to be lexed seperatly than a <I've 
done your command here is the response> communication.

    Good to see that you didn't use ActiveX (if one more company 
_boasts_ that their equipment comes with 'industry standard' ActiveX I 
think I'm going to cry)!!  Believe it or not I still have to interact 
with some equipment using DDE!!!!

    This is probably off topic but it's Friday afternoon!!

Cheers,

Neil

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
BioInnovations Zentrum
Tatzberg 47
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (0)351 4173 154
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Oct  1 11:41:53 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 01 Oct 2004 17:41:53 +0200
Subject: C API eqivalent of object.__new__
References: <tyfis9uewct.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyfekkieka4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gkzg4y.a7sne11n04ng0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tyfacv6e98e.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
> 
> > Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:
> > 
> > > How would one write object._new__(SomeType) in the C API ?
> > 
> > PyInstance_NewRaw(PyObject *class, [PyObject* dict])
> > 
> > seems to be the way to do this for classic classes. How would one do
> > it for new-style classes?
> 
> You mean something like:
> PyObject_CallMethod( (PyObject*)&PyBaseObject_Type,
>                                 "__new__", "O", clas);
> ?
>  
> > Also, how would one create a new-style class "dynamically" in the C
> > API? IOW, what's the new-style equivalent of PyClass_New? or, put
> > another way, how would you write
> > 
> >   type(name, (), dict)
> > 
> > in the C API ?
> 
> You mean something like:
> PyObject_CallFunctionObjArgs(
>                           (PyObject*)&PyType_Type,
>                           classname, classbases, classdict,
>                           NULL);
> ?

I was indeed starting to think about PyObject_Call* approaches to
this, but didn't want to go down that path without making sure that I
haven't missed some function that was specifically designed to do it.

If _you_ don't know of one, then I'll take that to mean that I
shouldn't waste more time looking for it :-)

Thanks.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 08:28:29 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:28:29 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com> <416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <864d37090410130528156f5e1b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:50:00 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> > Or, an ugly hack that might work for a while, depending on how
> > co_names is really generated. It seems in order of occurrence
> > (including right hand sides of assignment, but still top down) ...
> >
> > >>> import sys
> > >>> def getnames(): return sys._getframe(1).f_code.co_names
> > ...
> > >>> def MC(cname, cbases, cdict):
> > ...     names = cdict.get('ordic',[])
> > ...     names = [name for name in names if name in cdict]
> > ...     cdict['ordic'] = dict([(name,i) for i,name in enumerate(names)])
> > ...     return type(cname, cbases, cdict)
> > ...
> > >>> class C(object):
> > ...     __metaclass__ = MC # really a function shortcut
> > ...     x = 123
> > ...     y = sys
> > ...     z = 0
> > ...     ordic = getnames()
> > ...
> > >>> C.ordic
> > {'ordic': 5, '__module__': 0, '__metaclass__': 1, 'y': 3, 'x': 2, 'z': 4}
> 
> A metaclass /function/ and sys._getframe() exercised on a class definition
> - I think you have raised the bar for what qualifies as a hack :-)

Hey, I came first with that a couple of weeks ago :-) but in truth, it
was Alex Martelli that pointed to me that a metaclass function would
work... but not only is it not recommended, it's also said to make
Guido shudder ;-) Seriously, although it works, it's not recommended
practice. Metaclasses are supposed to be classes, not functions.

As for the getframe, I have played with it a little bit also. But in
the end I have chosen to use a simple counter, using
itertools.count(). More pythonic IMHO. And no need for clever hacks,
when all that is needed is to order the elements in the order they are
executed (which count() can guarantee). There are two situations where
the simpler counter works, but the getframe hack doesn't:

-- if I have a loop inside my class that is used to declare bunch of
attributes, all of them will have the same line number... but a
different sequence number if the simpler method is chosen.

-- if a function is called that returns a bunch of attributes (not
common practice, but still possible). All attributes are at the same
line in this case. Example:

class Foo:
    a,b,c = myfunc(...)

Of course, we are now getting into corner cases that show how much are
we pushing class  statements in Python. The _sane_ way to make it all
work would be to have a hook to provide a user-defined dict to the
class locals() dir; aternatively, the natice dict() could provide a
ordered interface (but then it wouldn't be a simple hash mapping, a
more complex structure such as a tree would be needed). Both are far
from happening in Python 2.x, IMHO... and I really doubt if dicts will
ever be changed to accomodate ordering, even in Python 3.0. Too much
hassle for too little gain. A hook function seems to be more sensible.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Thu Oct  7 11:25:12 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:25:12 +0200
Subject: 'local' var in module
In-Reply-To: <ck3lq0$egb$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
References: <ck3lq0$egb$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <41655FD8.40108@cenix-bioscience.com>

Andreas Lobinger wrote:

> Aloha,
>
> i'm i little bit confused by the following behaviour...
>
> lobingera at sibyl: cat flip.py
>
[working code deleted]

If you assign to a variable inside a function, it will define a variable 
local to that function, unless you explicity declare that variable as a 
global, like so:

> def g():

global rstate

> random.seed(rstate)
> s = list()
>
> for i in range(paras['flength']):
> s.append(random.choice(paras['cset']))
>
> rstate = random.getseed()
> return "".join(s) 

Aaron



From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Sat Oct 23 21:02:48 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 01:02:48 GMT
Subject: How to start a new thread ?
References: <mailman.5301.1098433895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<81a41dd.0410230127.6c59f6f7@posting.google.com>
	<slrncnkegj.7ft.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<81a41dd.0410230642.74f9ee2b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncnlvpo.slr.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On 23 Oct 2004 07:42:08 -0700, Lad <export at hope.cz> wrote:
> Sam, 
> thanks for your reply.
> If I can open console window
> by os.system('start Script2.py')
> isn't there any way how to send the output from that 
> Script2.py to a browser? The reason is ( also) that the otput consists HTML code

Yes you just print it out in a CGI script and the web server arranges for it
to get sent to the browser. What you can't do is execute that script and have
its output appear in a different browser window than the original script's
output (at least not without resorting to Javascript and only working
on some browsers).

You can just output a HTML link which causes a new CGI script to execute
which either is Script2.py or executes Script2.py. That way the user
can click the link to get the output of the script.

-- 
Sam Holden


From kosh at aesaeion.com  Thu Oct 28 14:12:00 2004
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:12:00 -0600
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200410281212.00090.kosh@aesaeion.com>

On Thursday 28 October 2004 11:04 am, beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
>
> Language       Type of Language     Execution Time Relative to C++
> C++            compiled             1
> Visual Basic   compiled             1
> C#             compiled             1
> Java           byte code            1.5
> PHP            interpreted          >100
> Python         interpreted          >100
>

My problem with these kinds of numbers is that they illustrate the whole 
problem of lies, damned lies and statistics. The numbers are probably fairly 
close to accurate but also not even in the right universe. In various 
benchmarks c,c++ etc are typically always faster then python programs by a 
huge ammount but remember that benchmarks are also very short overall and are 
very time intensive over those lines of code. On a regular application there 
is no time to do the kind of optimizations that you see in these benchmarks 
and if you tried the product would be far too late.

Lets say that python is 5x more productive then c just for the sake of 
arguement. So if the project took 2 months in python it would be 10 months in 
c. Now when it comes to optimization you have about 5x the code in the c 
version compared to the python version. So it is easier to profile and fix 
problems in the python version by a large margin however more important is 
fixing design errors. Because the code is much shorter in python and simpler 
overall it makes it easier to identify, see and fix design errors.

My experience has been is that while c,c++ etc are faster then python in 
regular applications I work with python is almost always a good deal faster. 

> I think Python is slower than C++ or Fortran for number-crunching,
> based on some experience with Numeric, but the speed factor is more
> often in the range of 2-10, not >100. McConnell's benchmarks are more
> general. I doubt the assertion that VB is as fast C++. Replacing a VBA
> function in Excel with a C dll can lead to big increase in speed.

I agree that replacing a single function with c and give an increase in speed 
and that there are classes of things that we have libraries for which give 
large increases in speed however the point is that all of those things can be 
called from python easily. So why write an entire program in a lower level 
language like c,c++, java, c# etc when you can write it in python in far less 
time? One the python version is done you can profile it, fix speed problems, 
debug it etc using far less resources. Once you have done all of that you can 
first use libraries if they exist to speed up  your program if still needed, 
code parts in a lower level language now that  you know exactly where the 
speed issues are or use something like psyco. Overall your programs will be 
far shorter, easier to read, easier to maintain, easier to debug, and just as 
fast if not faster. In my view just about anything other then a kernel or a 
device driver is premature optimization to write in a low level language 
barring other contraints.



From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Thu Oct 21 13:11:39 2004
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:11:39 -0500
Subject: Multiple Dispatch (was: Re: Method Underscores?)
In-Reply-To: <1gm05gb.1251x8o3h0barN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<mailman.5249.1098340790.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cdJdd.5313$WN5.3726@trndny08>
	<1gm05gb.1251x8o3h0barN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cl8qkb$9ps$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> were Python to acquire multiple dispatch (not in the cards, alas)

What's the issue with adding multiple dispatch to Python, then?

Guido-doesn't-want-it,
Technically-impractical-given-Python-as-it-is-today,
If-you-need-it,-it's-easy-enough-to-use-a-library,
Not-enough-interest-to-justify-effort,
or Something-else?

-Rocco


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 15:06:19 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 12:06:19 -0700
Subject: String to Hex
References: <6f402501.0410270242.521c6ab2@posting.google.com>
	<clnvjg$36k$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410271106.4bf01b8b@posting.google.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:<clnvjg$36k$01$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Michael Foord wrote:
> 
> > How do you safely turn an arbitrarily long signed hex string into a
> > long integer ?
> > e.g. -0x55aff8080000
> > 
> > When treating them as hex literals I'm getting future warnings that
> > from 2.4 hex values greater than sys.maxint will always return
> > positive values. I've had to treat them as strings and write a
> > function to turn them into longs a character at a time ! I couldn't
> > find a built in function that would do this for me.
> 
> One (fragile) way to avoid that Python 2.3 interprets
> 0x80000000...0xffffffff (on 32-bit systems) as negative integers is to add
> an explicit sign:
> 


Looks good. Why is it fragile ?

Regards,

Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
> $ python -c"print int('0xffffffff', 0)"
> -c:1: FutureWarning: int('0...', 0): sign will change in Python 2.4
> -1
> $ python -c"print int('+0xffffffff', 0)"
> 4294967295
> $ python -c"print int('-0xffffffff', 0)"
> -4294967295
> 
> Peter


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 11:16:55 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:16:55 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <416246FC.4070401@cenix-bioscience.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<416246FC.4070401@cenix-bioscience.com>
Message-ID: <4162BAE7.9080807@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
> PyProtocols (http://peak.telecommunity.com/PyProtocols.html) might do 
> what you want.
>
> Aaron
>
>
AWESOME, THANKS!


From 1 at 2.3  Sun Oct 31 07:32:11 2004
From: 1 at 2.3 (User)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:32:11 GMT
Subject: List problem
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.5668.1099072329.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <v2m9o0d7d1v3h4doumfkmb4djk41u0gb9c@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:52:03 +0000 (UTC), Steven Bethard
<steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

>Thomas M. <thomas.sunshine <at> web.de> writes:
>> 
>> test_list = [1, 2, 3]
>> 
>> for i in test_list:
>>    print i
>> 
>>    if 1 in test_list:
>>       test_list.remove(1)
>> 
>> Why is the second item not print ?
>
>Maybe this will help illustrate the problem:
>
>>>> test_list = [1, 2, 3]
>>>> for i, item in enumerate(test_list):
>... 	print item
>... 	print "start", i, test_list[i], test_list
>... 	if 1 in test_list:
>... 		test_list.remove(1)
>... 	print "end", i, test_list[i], test_list
>... 
>1
>start 0 1 [1, 2, 3]
>end 0 2 [2, 3]
>3
>start 1 3 [2, 3]
>end 1 3 [2, 3]
>
>On the first iteration of the loop, you are looking at item 0 in a 3-item list,
>[1, 2, 3].  When you remove 1 from the list, you convert the 3-item list into a
>2-item list, thust shifting the indices down, so that test_list[0] is now 2. 
>When the for loop continues, it is now looking at index 1, and the item at index
>1 in your (adjusted) 2-item list is 3.
>
>In general, removing elements from a list while you're iterating though the list
>is a bad idea.  Perhaps a better solution is a list comprehension:

Unless you're using a while loop and iterating in reverse, for
example:

a = [0,1,2,3,4]
pos_max = len(a) - 1	# Maximum iterable element
pos = pos_max		# Current element
while pos >= 0:
	if a[pos] == 2:
		a.remove(2)
    		pos_max = pos_max - 1
  	pos = pos - 1


>
>>>> test_list = [1, 2, 3]
>>>> [x for x in test_list if x != 1]
>[2, 3]
>>>> for item in [x for x in test_list if x != 1]:
>... 	print item
>... 	
>2
>3
>
>Steve



From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Oct 11 18:29:11 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:29:11 -0000
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncmm29m.8la.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <10mlsct69hmtgca at corp.supernews.com>, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> gabriele renzi wrote:
>>
>> then what you want is a better lambda. One where you can use return, 
>> maybe, and  where you can have statements and multiple expressions.
>> Don't throw away the baby with the bathwater.
> 
> But because of Python's line- and indentation-based syntax, doing all of 
> that on a single line is... um... awkward at best, to put it mildly.  

This is true. I think that Ruby's code block syntax offers a workable
alternative. Many will dispute this, saying it's too ugly, but this is
subjective and not based on any technical reasons. Here is what I've
proposed in the past:

def with_open_file(filename, proc):
    f = open(filename)
    try:
        proc(f)
    finally:
        f.close()
        
with_open_file('data.txt', {|f|
    for line in f:
        print line
})

This is nearly identical to Ruby's syntax, except that instead of creating
an object with a call method, it creates a callable.

> And once you make a lambda multiline, then you lose most of the point of 
> it -- at least, as far as I understand what the point is (having an 
> in-line, anonymous callable).  Once you allow statements and multiple 
> expressions, all you're gaining is anonymity, which seems like a pretty 
> paltry benefit to me.

It's not so much the anonymity that matters, it's the ability to use them as
expressions. It allows you to create your own control structures without
disrupting the logical flow of your program. For instance, right now in
Python you'd have to write the above like this:

def doit(f):
    for line in f:
        print line

with_open_file('data.txt', doit)

To me, this reads, "When I say 'doit', I mean iterate through each line in
some given object 'f', and print that line. Now, with the open file, 'doit'."
Whereas, in the previous example, I'm saying, "With the open file, for each
line in the file, print the line." The difference is subtle, perhaps, but
the need to define a named function beforehand rearranges my code in a way
that I'm not particularly fond of.

Another example is the "after" procedure. If you're familiar with Tcl, you
may recognize the following idiom:

after(10, lambda: sprite.move(0, 5))

In an (imaginary) event-driven framework, this would wait 10 seconds before
moving "sprite" down 5 pixels. You might say that this could easily be
rewritten with a def, and you're right:

def doit():
    sprite.move(0, 5)
after(10, doit)

Now, imagine you are setting up an animation this way:

after(10, lambda: sprite.move(0, 5))
after(15, lambda: sprite2.rotate(30))
after(20, lambda: sprite.scale(120, 120))
after(22, lambda: sprite2.move(50, 50))
after(22, lambda: sound1.play())
after(23, lambda: sprite.move(0, 0))
after(26, lambda: sound1.stop())

Imagine what happens when each one of these lambdas turns into a two-line
def. You could group the "def"s together, perhaps, but then you'd have to
give them all names like "move_sprite_0_5", which is totally redundant.
There are other ways to skin this cat, like switching to a more data-driven
model, but this is a practical use of anonymous functions; I do this kind of
thing all the time in JavaScript and ActionScript, which allow inline
anonymous functions.

> I agree that, if a case is *very* useful, it is possible to break the 
> rules.  List comprehensions, for example, break some of the rules, but 
> they are indeed very useful, so the rule-breakage is more forgiveable.

As was pointed out already in this thread, decorators break many of the same
rules. So far, I find anonymous functions much more useful than decorators.
The only problem is finding a suitable syntax, and I will admit this is
indeed a problem.

> Maybe I'm just ignorant or behind the times, but I still haven't seen a 
> real argument as to *why* lambdas are so useful.  There's some 
> assertions about how avoiding giving something a name makes things 
> clearer, which I disagree with.  ('Explicit is better than implicit.'  I 
> don't see how 'no name' makes the purpose of a code segment clearer than 
> 'some meaningfully descriptive name', no matter how many times it's 
> asserted.)

In that case, why stop at functions? Why not make all intermediate values
have mandatory names? Why not ban this:

c = math.sqrt(a * a + b * b)

And require instead:

a2 = a * a
b2 = b * b
tmp = a2 + b2
c = math.sqrt(tmp)

> There's complaints that it takes a whole two extra lines to 
> type a proper function def, as opposed to being able to use lambdas 
> inline... but again, I'd claim that with a properly named function, the 
> intent at point-of-use will be quite clear and the cost of two extra 
> lines of code is minimal.  (I also tend to break complex expressions 
> into multiple steps to increase clarity -- packing as much as possible 
> into a single line doesn't strike me as all that desirable.)  There's 
> complaints about polluting the namespace... but ISTM that it's not 
> *that* hard to come up with uniquely descriptive names.  Lambdas may 
> once have had some utility in capturing and tinkering with the scoping 
> of names, but that became moot with the introduction of nested scopes 
> 'way back when.
> 
> I understand that lambdas are very popular in other programming 
> languages (such as Lisp).  But Python is not those languages, and which 
> constructs are useful may well be different.  I don't know enough Lisp 
> to judge how helpful lambdas are there; I do know enough Python to 
> believe that I should be able to see the advantages if they were as 
> wonderful as their proponents say.

Lisp is not the only language that benefits from lambdas. Other languages
include JavaScript/ActionScript, C# (anonymous delegates), Java (anonymous
inner classes -- a poor substitute), Ruby, Tcl, Perl, and OCaml. They are
used in GUI callbacks, iteration patterns, flow control, data processing,
and in general any function or procedure that needs parts of its logic to be
parameterized. Only one of the aforementioned languages, OCaml, is
considered to be a functional language like Lisp or Scheme.

> My suspicion is that all of the 
> Python users who like lambdas originally discovered them in other 
> languages and are comfortable with them from that environment, but those 
> who have no previous exposure to lambdas tend to be unimpressed (at 
> best) by Python's take on them.  This renders them, IMO, in the same 
> category as the ternary operator that's continually proposed by converts 
> from, say, C/C++ -- a feature whose usability is much greater in other 
> languages than in Python, and whose inclusion would only satisfy those 
> familiar with the feature from those other languages.  The only 
> difference between the two features, IMO, is that someone managed to 
> talk Guido into including lambdas (which he reportedly regrets), and 
> nobody managed to talk him into including the ternary operator.

I actually discovered lambdas in Python first (well, technically Tcl, but I
didn't know it at the time), and since then I have done a lot of programming
in Python. In fact, it would be safe to say that Python biases my use of
other languages to a greater degree than any other language biases my use of
Python. I don't use lambdas very often, but their use does come up, and I
would rather see them become more powerful (or see code blocks added to the
language) than have them be removed entirely. I'd like to see a ternary
operator too. Guido would have probably added one by now, but nobody could
agree on which syntax would be most "Pythonic". The same fate, I fear, is in
store for any sufficiently advanced anonymous function syntax in Python.

(Yet, somehow, decorators slipped through, even though nobody agreeed on a
syntax for that either. I don't have a rational explanation for that...)

-- 
 .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
        "talking about music is like dancing about architecture."


From nick at craig-wood.com  Mon Oct  4 09:29:58 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 04 Oct 2004 13:29:58 GMT
Subject: Reclaiming (lots of) memory
References: <87lleo6hva.fsf@thomas.local>
	<slrncm281h.cs.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<7xbrfirc9r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrncm2j0h.csu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Paul Rubin <> wrote:
>  Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> writes:
> > Just for fun I converted your program to use anydbm.  It then took 135
> > seconds to run (vs 12 for your original code), but only used 4 MB of
> > memory top.  The values of the dbm are pickled hashes.  The keys could
> > be too, but I decided to just use a tab seperated string...
> 
>  But I think it used much more than 4 MB of memory if you count the
>  amount of system cache that held that dbm file.

The dbm file is only 10 MB though, so thats 10MB of memory extra used
which *is* reclaimable!

>  Without the caching there'd have had to be real disk seeks for all
>  those dbm updates.  So I think if you had a lot more data, enough
>  that you couldn't keep the dbm in cache any more, you'd get a
>  horrible slowdown.

You've only got to keep the index of the dbm in cache and its designed
for that purpose.

You do get lots of disk io when making the dbm though - I suspect it
does a lot of fsync() - you may be able to turn that off.

>  That's why you may be better off with a sorting-based method, that
>  only needs sequential disk operations and not a lot of random
>  seeks.

A sorting based method will be better for huge datasets that are only
compiled once.  I would have thought a dbm would win for lots of
updates and medium sized datasets.

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 17:22:48 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:22:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How can I make an existing object read-only?
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <loom.20041004T231255-193@post.gmane.org>

Irmen de Jong <irmen <at> -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> writes:
> Say I have an object that's initialized with a bunch of attributes.
> I want to pass the object to a piece of code that is not allowed
> to add/delete/set attributes on this object.
> When control returns, the code is again allowed to make changes
> to the object.

Would a proxy object work for you?  I'm thinking something along the lines of:
    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/252151

Start with a class like:

class Proxy(object):
    def __init__(self, obj):
        super(Proxy, self).__init__(obj)
        self.__dict__['_obj'] = obj
    def __getattr__(self, attr):
        return getattr(self._obj, attr)
    def __setattr__(self, attr, val):
        raise AttributeError, "object is read-only" 

Then you can get the following behavior:

>>> class S(object):
... 	def __init__(self, x):
... 		self.x = x
... 
>>> s = S(1)
>>> s.x
1
>>> s.x = 2
>>> s.x
2
>>> p = Proxy(s)
>>> p.x
2
>>> p.x = 3
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "D:\Steve\My Programming\python\temp.py", line 8, in __setattr__
    self._obj = obj
AttributeError: object is read-only
>>> s.x = 1
>>> p.x
1

Basically the idea here is that you don't actually pass your object to the 
other piece of code; you pass a wrapper object that acts like your object.  
This means that you only get the __setattr__ overhead in the other code, but 
you do also get the overhead of the additional lookup (proxy._obj instead of 
just _obj).

I don't know if these are acceptable costs to you, but it is, at least, an 
alternative, I think.

Steve



From redhog at takeit.se  Mon Oct 18 05:03:23 2004
From: redhog at takeit.se (Egil M?ller)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 02:03:23 -0700
Subject: distutils and RPM subpackages
Message-ID: <b0afa8dd.0410180103.47009420@posting.google.com>

I would like to convert my Python program into using distutils (atm, I
build RPM-packages straight out of an ordinary SPEC-file). However, I
do use RPM subpackages (in distutils lingua, this should prolly be
called "subdistributions")  - one source distribution resulting in
several binary ones. I can't find anything like this in the distutils
documentation. Is it impossible to do using distutils? If not, how do
you do it?


From fakeaddress at nowhere.org  Thu Oct  7 22:32:34 2004
From: fakeaddress at nowhere.org (Bryan Olson)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:32:34 GMT
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
In-Reply-To: <slrncmaq17.4cu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
	<DaKdnbspTNXGvfjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<71fam01oatd8g87d6dpacbn2mcku9pe4j1@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4502.1097159793.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncmaq17.4cu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <6%m9d.25861$QJ3.7488@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
 > Paul McNett <p at ulmcnett.com> wrote:
 >> I'd say "negligibly few", since there really isn't good reason
 >> to give the world your internal ip address. Anyway, you can't
 >> count on it, and you wouldn't have a basis to know what
 >> percentage weren't unique.
 >
 > An awful lot of proxies do do exactly that (I used this technique
 > before).
 >
 > HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR and REMOTE_ADDR are the headers you want

Many open proxies do that to avoid being bad net-citizens.  It
is not common practice for NAT gateways and enterprise proxies.

 > Its not safe to use this as a unique address for a user but if
 > you are interested in exactly where your users are (for fraud
 > checking purposes) its a useful technique.

It can detect fraud, but there are enough transparent proxies
that it cannot detect absence of fraud.


-- 
--Bryan


From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct 12 10:08:06 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:08:06 GMT
Subject: Database Connectivity
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<BvCdne92t9yqU_fcRVn-pw@megapath.net>
	<mailman.4723.1097525156.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<9qnmm0p94cbavo3lqo3bn1tobt17kth042@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <i84t32-jck.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <9qnmm0p94cbavo3lqo3bn1tobt17kth042 at 4ax.com>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:05:50 -0700, Cliff Wells
><clifford.wells at comcast.net> declaimed the following in
>comp.lang.python:
>
>> Microsoft products (SQL Server was released around 1989 on OS/2, 1992 on
>> Windows), so I fail to see your point here.  Also, holding Microsoft up
>> as an example of a company that supports its own products for extended
>> periods of time is probably ill-advised.  The original version of SQL
>> Server doesn't exist in any incarnation, nor does Microsoft support the
>
>	Uhmm... Didn't I read somewhere that the original SQL-Server
>code base was a licensed version of Sybase?
			.
			.
			.
It's hard, of course, for outsiders to know what you read.  It might have
been <URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SQL_Server#History >,
though; in any case, yes, Microsoft bought its RDBMS technology from Sybase.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 04:19:50 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:19:50 +0200
Subject: Yet Another Command Line Parser
References: <5c4tn0latkspkrrlj8r66qj7h35qbpies0@4ax.com>
	<qExfd.3218$kM.28@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gmafuh.1ahlu0w17i82akN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ulBfd.8071$KJ6.3884@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gmb2ov.x8n25btrkygpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<UWHfd.3733$kM.1218@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1gmb8kf.a1pk6p1xg0j4oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Alex:
> > However, it's an interesting characteristic of security that it is _not_
> > free: each security measure, precaution and stance carries a cost in
> > terms of convenience and productivity.
> 
> Almost completely agreed, though I think there are cases where
> a solution with better security doesn't have that tradeoff.
> 
> Using Python is one .. haven't had to worry much about stack
> overflows, etc. and I've been much more productive.  :)

Right, of course: more generally, increasing code quality tends to
enhance security as a side effect (since many bugs might potentially be
subject to security exploits), as I indicated, yet it also tends to
lower lifetime costs (since maintenance costs are such a high part of
lifetime costs).

Using Python _is_ a case of "increasing code quality"!-)


Alex


From scott_list at mischko.com  Fri Oct  8 11:48:15 2004
From: scott_list at mischko.com (Scott Chapman)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:48:15 -0700
Subject: Can't get curses to work in python
Message-ID: <200410080848.15470.scott_list@mischko.com>

I can't figure out how to get curses (ncurses) enabled in Python.  I have 
ncurses and ncurses-devel rpm's installed on my system (Suse 9.1) but I can't 
figure out how to get it enabled when I compile Python.

Can anyone help here?

Thanks!
Scott


From me at privacy.net  Tue Oct 19 13:56:52 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Tobias Pfeiffer)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 17:56:52 GMT
Subject: md5 and large files
References: <mailman.5128.1098124728.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl19dr$nqo$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<41743897$0$24525$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <2tl2r4F20u7baU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

On 18 Okt 2004, Martin v. L?wis wrote:

> You may well search the space of
> all possible files (in all file lengths), and never find a single
> file that hashes the same as your original file.

Are you sure about that? I have no clue about what the md5 algorithm 
works like, but I'd think one could prove that with an number large 
enough, every hash occurs twice. At last, md5 is not random.

Bye
Tobias

-- 
please send any mail to botedesschattens(at)web(dot)de


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Oct 11 13:54:05 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:54:05 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>

Clark C. Evans wrote:

>No joke.  For the common case above, which occurs _everywhere_ 
>in my 'deferred execution' code, one would write:
>
>   def somerandomname(args):
>       body
>   func(arg, somerandomname)
>
>So, you've taken something that is a perfectly clear one-liner and
>converted it into a 3 line chunk of code with _zero_ added clarity,
>in fact, I'd say you've dramatically reduced clarity by requiring
>the a name be 'minted'.  Ugly.  
>

I don't agree.  I *still* have to stop and think every time I see a 
lamba -- they parse completely differently in my mind than anything else 
in Python does, and they confuse me every time.  Yes, defining a small 
function requires two extra lines... but, y'know, it's not like my 
editor is going to run out of paper.  And I find that a well-chosen 
name, even for a single-use thing like this, greatly adds clarity.  To 
my mind, calling this func_callback(), or some such descriptive name, 
makes the intent *much* more clear than 'lambda' does.

>Multiply this by 10x in one of my
>source files and you've taken something perfectly readable and
>turned it into maze of confusion.  This _hides_ the true intent
>rather than making it clear that the function is temporary thingy.
>  
>

Only when one is already familiar with lambdas.  I've gotten to the 
point where I *can* understand them, but it's still a struggle.  It 
seems to me that the benefits of having lambda are outweighed by the 
fair amount of extra mental space that they use up.  It just strikes me 
as too much of a special case to deserve special syntax that has 
absolutely no parallel elsewhere in Python.

>| Well, if lambda is removed (or not ;-), I hope an anonymous def 
>| expression is allowed, so we can write
>| 
>|    obj.f = def(args):
>|                body
>| or
>| 
>|    obj.f = def(args): body
>| 
>| or
>| 
>|    obj.f = (
>|        def(args):
>|            body
>|    ) 
>
>Ewww.  How is this better than lambda? Let's keep lambda, no?
>  
>

I certainly agree that none of these examples strike me as less 
troublesome than lambda.  Indeed, the second one effectively *is* lambda 
syntax, except with added parens and a name change.  And the others both 
scream out that there *will* be problems with indenting properly. 

I remain unconvinced that the utility of anonymity is so great that 
either special case is justified.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Oct 25 14:26:16 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:26:16 -0400
Subject: comparing multiple copies of terrabytes of data?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.25.18.08.29.462743@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
References: <pan.2004.10.25.18.08.29.462743@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <D-idnbZWXrXV2ODcRVn-pg@giganews.com>

Dan Stromberg wrote:

> Rather than cmp'ing twice, to verify data integrity, I was thinking we
> could speed up the comparison a bit, by using a python script that does 3

Use the cmp. So what if you must run it twice ... by the way I
really doubt that you could speed up the process in python
... you'll probably end up with a much slower version

Istvan.


From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Fri Oct 29 10:20:39 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:20:39 +0200
Subject: Interface of the set classes
In-Reply-To: <1gmfcnn.1kc0foj1j6zq3hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <41824654$0$1779$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<1gmfcnn.1kc0foj1j6zq3hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4182518e$0$5916$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Alex Martelli a ?crit :
> Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ok, I first want to stress that I looked through the newsgroups archives
>>(on Google) for an answer to my question, but I didn't find it.
>>
>>It's about the interface of the set classes as defined in the PEP 218.
> 
> 
> You should check out the built-in set type in 2.4 (the beta is quite
> usable, go ahead and get it!) -- dunno if PEP 218 has been updated to
> reflect exactly what's ended up in the language.

I've read somehow the documentation, and that's exactly what's in the PEP :)

> 
> 
>>I don't understand why the sets has an interface of mapping object 
>>without associated value and not an interface of sequence ?
> 
> 
> Sequences have order, sets don't.

Yes, and ? I don't understand why that's a reason ? If you take the C++ 
STL, the sets implements the sequence concept but without the impossible 
things to do ... so if you don't need the order in your list you can 
switch freely from vector to list to sets depending on the properties or 
efficiency you want. I don't know why this is different in Python ! 
Using "add" instead of "append" and "update" instead of "extend" does 
not makes sense to me. It's even worse because Python rely more on 
interface than in inheritence ... so making classes similar helps a lot 
reusability.

> 
> 
>>Then, why can't you at all access sets element by position ? As Python
>>iterator are so poor (mainly, you cannot copy them ...) you have things
> 
> 
> That's what itertools.tee is for (in Python 2.4).

Oky, thanks ^_^ So I should not need the __getitem__ anymore in sets.

> 
> 
>>you cannot do without positionnal iteration (typically when you need to
>>store the current position and go on the iteration to restart from the
>>saved position later on).
> 
> 
> Yep, the quintessential usecase of itertools.tee.
> 
> 
>>Please, if this discussion already exists give me the pointer ... and
>>don't tell me "because of implementation if over dictionnary" ... I 
>>don't think that can be a good answer :o)
> 
> 
> It would be false (in 2.4) -- set is a builtin type, side by side with
> list and dict, not relying on either of them.

Yes, I know it will become a built-ins type ! But that does not explain 
this interface incompatible with lists. I would expect maximum 
compatibility to be able to exchange the types. Even compatibility 
between dictionnary and list is usefull ... because at some point you 
can consider a dictionnary as a list of tuples. And then, too bad you 
cannot because of simple design decisions.

> 
> 
> It may well be that, for whatever needs, you need a different container
> type.  That's what the collections module in the standard library is for
> (again, in 2.4) -- in 2.4 there's only deque in it, but that's the place
> where, in 2.5, other collection types may go.  In my case, the main
> reason I find myself using something other than set, for example, is
> when I have non-hashable items.
> 
> The best way to get new collection types into Python 2.5 is to write
> them now (pure Python, pyrex, C, whatever), publish them (Activestate
> cookbook, sourceforge, whatever), get a user-base so that experience can
> enhance them, _and_ also get involved in python-dev to make a PEP and
> champion it.  No hurry, it's probably 18+ months to go to 2.5, but the
> herein-suggested, soundest process to make it likely that one's changes,
> in the best possible form, will get into 2.5's standard library, does
> take its time, too;-)
> 
> 
> Alex

No, what I want is not a new container type. I just want to be able to 
change the container I use without changing all my codes ! It's too 
expensive. At the end, I finish using sets and hashsets from the STL 
exported to Python as sequences. The efficiency is the same and it just 
works great :) I just feel bad not using the "standard" sets class ...

Pierre


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 05:12:52 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:12:52 +0200
Subject: No more command history with cursor keys
References: <1096619099.20537@ftpgate>
Message-ID: <1gkz5o9.1yipm4e1bewl8jN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Chris <chrisNOSPAM at spam.com> wrote:

> Since I've installed (from sources) Python 2.3.4 on SuSE 8.2 the command
> history is not working anymore. When I press the cursor keys I get ^[[A or
> ^[[B ....
> I also tried to install IPython but the same problem is there.
> 
> What's wrong?

You appear to be missing some parts of the 'readline' library --
probably the 'devel' half of it; or, if you have it installed, it's
somewhere the build process for Python and IPython can't find.


Alex


From merman at snafu.de  Tue Oct 12 06:29:22 2004
From: merman at snafu.de (merman)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:29:22 +0200
Subject: py2exe
In-Reply-To: <416ba9da$0$9584$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <416ba9da$0$9584$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <416bb1bb$0$24560$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Thanks for help.

o-o

Thomas


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 17:43:35 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:43:35 +0200
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
References: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<468v42-c23.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <1gm8k08.2z1kw7u3x98rN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
   ...
> > I'm seeking for a person who would take the job to
> > find the buglet. He would need to debug and
> > nail down a commercial application, which I cannot
> > make public. (S)He would need to sign an NDA with me.
> 
> Hopefully your customer does not read this news group...

Why not?  If I was the customer, I'd be admiring of Christian's
resourcefulness and inventiveness.

> I'm not sure about the exact daily rates for programmers in Berlin but I

I don't see any indication that people who accept the challenge need to
be in Berlin.

> would not expect many responses from really skilled people for taking over a
> commercial project for such a low payment and additionally taking the risk
> that there's no payment at all.

I think you're neglecting several factors, such as the fact that the
result will be released as open source (as Stackless has always been),
the challenge aspect (if I'm really brilliant I can solve this in one
day, and 500 a day is a lot of money if you're living in, say, Estonia),
and the kudos who will accrue to the winner (what a badge, for a young
aspiring star, to claim he got _Tismer_'s money for solving a bug faster
and better than anybody else in the whole world, Tismer included!).

Wish I didn't have the Cookbook's 2nd ed at such a critical stage
(blocked on contributors' permissions, UGH, and requiring lots of time
and non-programming effort to work around the block), plus much else
cooking, or I'd consider taking it up myself (being peeved that I wasn't
listed among Christian's "real hardcore system hackers with many years
of experience" -- well I _do_ have the many years, at least!-)...


Alex


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 26 08:52:08 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:52:08 -0400
Subject: newbie: pygtk (win, slack10)
In-Reply-To: <m3zn29sni3.fsf@g2ctech.com>
References: <20041025212503.94278.qmail@web54001.mail.yahoo.com>	<mailman.5495.1098779417.5135.python-list@python.org>	<fLqfd.16544$lp6.959@okepread01>
	<m3zn29sni3.fsf@g2ctech.com>
Message-ID: <SQrfd.16695$lp6.4013@okepread01>

Jorge Godoy wrote:
> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Or "Portugese" as I understand they call it :-)
> 
> 
> It is "Portuguese".  You missed a letter 'u' right after the 'g' :-)
> (LaTeX also does the same... ;-))
> 
If I understand you correctly you are telling me that "Portugese" is 
"Portuguese" in Portug(u)ese? Thanks for the information. That should 
have read '''Or "Portugese" as *I* call it.''' That'll teach me to trust 
a speeling chocker that tells me I'm right :-)

We now return you to our regularly scheduled insanity.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From newsgroups at nospam.nowire.org  Tue Oct 19 20:34:55 2004
From: newsgroups at nospam.nowire.org (Thomas =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kr=FCger?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:34:55 +0200
Subject: strongly typed
References: <slrncnbau9.bba.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <cl4brf$2kj$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Gabriel Zachmann wrote:

> On
>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_language
> 
> I read that Python is a strongly typed language,
> while C++ is regarded a weakly typed language in that article.
> 
> Could somebody please explain to me why Python is a more strongly typed
> language than C++?
> 
> All pointers and insights will be highly appreciated,
> Gabriel.
> 

This may give the answer:
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?StronglyTyped

Thomas


From spam at nospam.org  Thu Oct 28 19:12:20 2004
From: spam at nospam.org (Erik Johnson)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:12:20 -0600
Subject: Python equivalent of LWP and HTTP in Perl
References: <vAbgd.24$SJ2.18@fe61.usenetserver.com>
	<41814e83$0$48933$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <41817b56$1@nntp.zianet.com>


"Irmen de Jong" wrote

> >   my($ua) = LWP::UserAgent->new;
> >   my $req = GET "$uri";
> >   $req->header(Referer => "$referer");
> >   $ua->proxy('http', 'http://localhost:8080/'); # Proxomitron
> >   $response = $ua->request($req);
> >   $respcode = $response->code;
>
>
> import urllib
> proxies = {'http': 'http://localhost:8080/'}
> response = urllib.urlopen("some_url", proxies=proxies).read()

... which is short and clean, but ignores the Referer header.
I have worked with httplib some, but not urllib. Maybe urllib can do this,
but may I suggest checking out httplib:
http://docs.python.org/lib/httplib-examples.html

-ej




From tonon at students.cs.unibo.it  Thu Oct 28 14:23:40 2004
From: tonon at students.cs.unibo.it (Samuele Giovanni Tonon)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 18:23:40 GMT
Subject: problem understanding pygtk
Message-ID: <slrnco2e9c.4gk.tonon@cantina.students.cs.unibo.it>

hi,
i'm trying to develop a trivial application which random copy files
from a directory to another one.

i made it using pygtk for the graphical interface, however i find 
some problem with progressbar and ListStore:

basically i need to make pulse the progressbar while i'm copying files
and write filenames copied on the ListStore on to the window.

However while copying the window is frozen, even if files are copied
one by one and when the copy process finish the window is updated
suddenly.
This behaviour is well shown if i try to copy files to slow devices
such as usb disk.

Looking to example in pygtk i though one way to solve this problem 
was using gtk.timeouts or using thread , but none of them seems 
to work.

Any hints ? The code is attached here, hoping someone can help me

Thanks
Samuele
 
----
#!/usr/bin/python

import pygtk
pygtk.require('2.0')
import gtk
import gobject
import os
import time
import sys
import random
import shutil

def progress_timeout(pbobj):
	if pbobj.transfermode == 1:
		pbobj.progbar.pulse()
	return gtk.TRUE


def copy_file(pbobj):
	if pbobj.copying == 0 and pbobj.transfermode == 1:
		pbobj.copying = 1
		for f in pbobj.cplist:
			shutil.copy2(f,pbobj.dstdir)
			pbobj.model.append([f])
		pbobj.cplist=[]
		pbobj.statusbar.push(pbobj.statbarCID, "Transfer Done")
		pbobj.transfermode = 0
		pbobj.copying = 0
	return gtk.TRUE


class RanFiles:
	def listfiles(self):
		if len(self.model) >= 1:
			self.model.clear()
		self.fileslist = []
        	for root, dirs, files in os.walk(self.pathname):
			for f in files:
				self.fileslist.append(root + '/' + f)

	def enter_callback(self, widget, entry):
		self.dstdir = self.txtentry.get_text()

	def src_callback(self, widget, entry):
		self.pathname = self.txtentry0.get_text()
		
	def delete_event(self, widget, event, data=None):
		return gtk.FALSE

	def destroy(self, widget, data=None):
		self.statusbar.pop(self.statbarCID)
		gtk.timeout_remove(self.timer)
		gtk.timeout_remove(self.timer1)
		self.timer = 0
		self.timer1 = 0
		gtk.main_quit()

	def refresh_menu(self, widget, data=None):
		self.statusbar.pop(self.statbarCID)
		self.listfiles()

	def random_menu(self, widget, data=None):
		self.statusbar.pop(self.statbarCID)
		self.defsize = self.spinner.get_value_as_int()
		maxsize= self.defsize * 1024 * 1024
		self.cplist=[]
		complete = 0
		size = 0
		while complete == 0:
			file = self.fileslist[random.randint(0,len(self.fileslist)-1)]
			fsize = int(os.stat(file)[6])
			if (size + fsize) < maxsize:
				self.cplist.append(file)
				size = size + fsize
			else:
				complete = 1
		self.transfer_menu(widget)

	def transfer_menu(self, widget, data=None):
		if self.dstdir == "":
			self.dstdir_menu(widget)

		self.statusbar.pop(self.statbarCID)
		self.model.clear()
		self.transfermode = 1
		
	def dstdir_menu(self, widget, data=None):
		self.statusbar.pop(self.statbarCID)
		dir='/'
		dlg = gtk.FileSelection(title = 'Select destination directory...')
		dlg.file_list.set_sensitive(0)
		dlg.set_filename(dir)
		response = dlg.run()
		if response == gtk.RESPONSE_OK:
			self.dstdir = dlg.get_filename()
		else:
			self.dstdir = '/'
		self.txtentry.set_text(self.dstdir)
		dlg.destroy()


	def browse_menu(self, widget, data=None):
		self.statusbar.pop(self.statbarCID)
		dir=self.pathname+'/'
		if(dir=='/'):
			dir = "~/"
		dlg = gtk.FileSelection(title = 'Select directory...')
		dlg.file_list.set_sensitive(0)
		dlg.set_filename(dir)
		response = dlg.run()
		if response == gtk.RESPONSE_OK:
			self.pathname = dlg.get_filename()
			self.listfiles()
		else:
			self.pathname = '/'
		self.txtentry0.set_text(self.pathname)
		dlg.destroy()

	def __init__(self):
		self.window = gtk.Window(gtk.WINDOW_TOPLEVEL)
		self.window.set_title("Random Files")
		self.window.set_geometry_hints(min_width=360, min_height=200)
		self.window.connect("delete_event", self.delete_event)
		self.window.connect("destroy", self.destroy)
		self.pathname = "~/"
		self.transfermode = 0
		self.dstdir = ""
		self.defsize = 128
		self.copying = 0

		self.vbox1 = gtk.VBox(gtk.FALSE,0)
		self.window.add(self.vbox1)

		self.hsep = gtk.HSeparator()
		self.vbox1.pack_start(self.hsep,gtk.FALSE,gtk.FALSE,0)


		self.hbox0 = gtk.HBox(gtk.FALSE,0)
		self.vbox1.pack_start(self.hbox0,gtk.FALSE, gtk.FALSE,0)

		self.label0 = gtk.Label("Src Dir: ")
		self.hbox0.pack_start(self.label0,gtk.FALSE,gtk.TRUE,0)

		self.txtentry0 = gtk.Entry(max=0)
		self.txtentry0.set_text(self.pathname)
		self.txtentry0.connect("activate", self.src_callback, self.txtentry0)
		self.hbox0.pack_start(self.txtentry0,gtk.TRUE,gtk.TRUE,0)

		self.button1 = gtk.Button(None,"Browse")
		self.button1.connect_object("clicked", self.browse_menu, None)
		self.hbox0.pack_start(self.button1,gtk.FALSE,gtk.TRUE,0)

		self.label9 = gtk.Label("  ")
		self.hbox0.pack_start(self.label9,gtk.FALSE,gtk.TRUE,0)

		self.hbox1 = gtk.HBox(gtk.FALSE,0)
		self.vbox1.pack_start(self.hbox1,gtk.FALSE, gtk.FALSE,0)

		self.label = gtk.Label("Dst Dir: ")
		self.hbox1.pack_start(self.label,gtk.FALSE,gtk.TRUE,0)

		self.txtentry = gtk.Entry(max=0)
		self.txtentry.set_text(self.dstdir)
		self.txtentry.connect("activate", self.enter_callback, self.txtentry)
		self.hbox1.pack_start(self.txtentry,gtk.TRUE,gtk.TRUE,0)
		
		self.button5 = gtk.Button(None,"Browse")
		self.button5.connect_object("clicked", self.dstdir_menu, None)
		self.hbox1.pack_start(self.button5,gtk.FALSE,gtk.TRUE,0)

		self.label1 = gtk.Label("  ")
		self.hbox1.pack_start(self.label1,gtk.FALSE,gtk.TRUE,0)

		self.hbox2 = gtk.HBox(gtk.FALSE,0)
		self.vbox1.pack_start(self.hbox2,gtk.FALSE, gtk.FALSE,0)

		self.label2 = gtk.Label("Size (MB): ")
		self.hbox2.pack_start(self.label2,gtk.FALSE,gtk.TRUE,0)

		self.adj = gtk.Adjustment(self.defsize, 1.0, 512.0, 1.0, 10.0, 0.0)
		self.spinner = gtk.SpinButton(self.adj, 0, 0)
		self.spinner.set_wrap(gtk.TRUE)
		self.hbox2.pack_start(self.spinner, gtk.FALSE, gtk.TRUE, 0)

		self.toolbar = gtk.Toolbar()
		self.toolbar.set_style(gtk.TOOLBAR_BOTH)
		self.vbox1.pack_start(self.toolbar,gtk.FALSE,gtk.FALSE,0)

		self.toolbutton2 = gtk.ToolButton(None,"Transfer")
		self.toolbutton2.connect_object("clicked", self.transfer_menu, None)
		self.toolbar.add(self.toolbutton2)

		self.toolbutton3 = gtk.ToolButton(None,"Random")
		self.toolbutton3.connect_object("clicked", self.random_menu, None)
		self.toolbar.add(self.toolbutton3)

		self.toolbutton4 = gtk.ToolButton(None,"Quit")
		self.toolbutton4.connect_object("clicked", self.destroy, None)
		self.toolbar.add(self.toolbutton4)

		self.scwindow = gtk.ScrolledWindow()
		self.scwindow.set_shadow_type(gtk.SHADOW_IN)
		self.vbox1.pack_start(self.scwindow,gtk.TRUE,gtk.TRUE,0)

		self.model = gtk.ListStore(gobject.TYPE_STRING)
		self.listfiles()
		self.treeview = gtk.TreeView(self.model)
		self.column = gtk.TreeViewColumn("Folder", gtk.CellRendererText(), text=0)
		self.treeview.append_column(self.column)
		self.treeview.set_headers_visible(gtk.FALSE)
		self.scwindow.add(self.treeview)

		self.hbox = gtk.HBox(gtk.TRUE,0)
		self.vbox1.pack_start(self.hbox,gtk.FALSE, gtk.FALSE,0)

		self.progbar = gtk.ProgressBar()
		self.progbar.set_orientation(gtk.PROGRESS_LEFT_TO_RIGHT)
		self.progbar.set_pulse_step(0.1)
		self.hbox.pack_start(self.progbar,gtk.FALSE,gtk.TRUE,0)
		self.timer = gtk.timeout_add (100, progress_timeout, self)
		self.timer1 = gtk.timeout_add (100, copy_file, self)

		self.statusbar = gtk.Statusbar()
		self.statbarCID = self.statusbar.get_context_id('my stat bar')
		self.hbox.pack_start(self.statusbar,gtk.FALSE,gtk.TRUE,0)

		self.vbox1.show()
		self.hsep.show()
		self.toolbar.show()
		self.toolbutton3.show()
		self.toolbutton4.show()
		self.hbox0.show()
		self.label0.show()
		self.txtentry0.show()
		self.button1.show()
		self.hbox1.show()
		self.label.show()
		self.label9.show()
		self.txtentry.show()
		self.button5.show()
		self.label1.show()
		self.hbox2.show()
		self.label2.show()
		self.spinner.show()
		self.scwindow.show()
		self.treeview.show()
		self.hbox.show()
		self.progbar.show()
		self.statusbar.show()
		self.window.show()


	def main(self):
		gtk.main()

if __name__ == "__main__":
	RM = RanFiles()
	RM.main()

-- 
Samuele Giovanni Tonon <tonon at students.cs.unibo.it>
	5% fats, 2% cerebral activities


From wade at lightlink.com  Tue Oct 26 07:07:45 2004
From: wade at lightlink.com (Wade Leftwich)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 04:07:45 -0700
Subject: Reading XML like Python!
References: <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5b4785ee.0410260307.7392c8b7@posting.google.com>

johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John) wrote in message news:<ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534 at posting.google.com>...
> I have to read a lot of XML for my upcoming project.
> XML is hard on my eyes.
> Is there some sort of converter that converts XML to something more
> eye friendly? maybe like Python? I have seen restructured text. There
> is a paper at EuroPython 2004 that seems to do something similar.
> 
> "Pythonic Alternatives for declarative XML-based specifications of
> robot behavior"
> 
> Anyone know of any tools along these lines?
> 
> Thanks.

I am on a similar quest, for a notation that will let me write XSLT
without typing  '<xsl:' a gazillion times. (And, more important, will
be easier to read.)

I have not made a choice yet, but Paul Tchistopolskii has assembled a
list of XML Alternatives at
http://www.pault.com/pault/pxml/xmlalternatives.html.

His own XSLScript looks promising for my project:
http://www.pault.com/pault/XSLScript/index.html

-- Wade Leftwich
Ithaca, NY


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Oct 21 04:21:51 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:21:51 +0200
Subject: execvp() on Solaris
References: <f197302b.0410180514.4c38809b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wzsm88qy5c.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> mike at spindler.us (mikeSpindler) (m) wrote:

m> I've seen it addressed in searching, but not specifically what is
m> recommended to get around it.  On Linux where I did my development all
m> was fine.  But then going to Solaris for the target I found I couldn't
m> resolve the errors wrt execvp().  It's apparently not syntax, but I
m> could be wrong.  Any other thoughts on how to get execvp() working
m> and/or how to cat a file in a new window without bringing tkinter into
m> the discussion?

m> My example:
m>   os.system("xterm -geometry 120x20 -e \"tail -f ./logs/DATAFILE\"&")

Leave out the \"'s:
os.system("xterm -geometry 120x20 -e tail -f ./logs/DATAFILE&")
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From matthiasjanes at gmx.net  Fri Oct  8 14:39:42 2004
From: matthiasjanes at gmx.net (matthiasjanes)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 11:39:42 -0700
Subject: difficult zipefile Question
References: <d588131f.0410061437.4ecda4bf@posting.google.com>
	<ck1tfn$q64$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<d588131f.0410062226.165e914d@posting.google.com>
	<ck4emv$9rb$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <d588131f.0410081039.70dd180a@posting.google.com>

Michael Hoffman <m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote in message news:<ck4emv$9rb$1 at gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>...
> matthiasjanes wrote:
> 
> > maybe someone has an idea.
> 
> Someone has more than an idea. I already posted the answer to your 
> question, but you apparently only bothered to read part of my message.

Sorry M.Hoffman - I'm in the wrong. Somehow it confused me so much
that I had forgotten to post the whole code - so I did it straight
away and forgot to follow your instruction. once again Sorry and
Thanks for your help.

Mr.Janes


From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Fri Oct 22 14:12:39 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:12:39 +0200
Subject: IDLE--what are your experiences with it?
References: <Pm8ed.3143$Ag.3109@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <41794d9a$0$766$3a628fcd@reader10.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Under windows I don't user IDLE but the PythonWin 2.3.3
I thinkt PythonWin (from ActiveState.com) is much better
It should be the one in the official distribution and not IDLE

Greetz,
Ivo.

"Kevin Walzer" <sw at wordtech-software.com> wrote in message
news:Pm8ed.3143$Ag.3109 at fe37.usenetserver.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I'm looking for other peoples' viewpoints about their experiences with
> IDLE as an editor--what are its good points? What are its limitations?
> Any advice/insight is appreciated.
>
> - --
> Kevin Walzer, PhD
> WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
> http://www.wordtech-software.com
> http://www.smallbizmac.com
> http://www.kevin-walzer.com
> mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFBeRItJmdQs+6YVcoRAlMfAJ9HCm/JWKZF4SpYBrivPHM1EO3slgCdGrJF
> wgbnOgkYH0ywOlF0dFy9rUU=
> =DUrq
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>




From ville at spammers.com  Sun Oct 10 02:55:46 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 09:55:46 +0300
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <du7fz4n6ozx.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Grant" == Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:

    Grant> I don't know what you mean by that.  Nobody seems to have a
    Grant> problem with "and" "or" and "not" operators using the truth
    Grant> values of strings.  What is there about "xor" that
    Grant> precludes it from behaving similarly?

It's just that logical xor is an extremely rare beast. I would
probably prefer to see the operation expanded to the more typical
and-or-nots in real code.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From richie at entrian.com  Fri Oct  1 06:06:00 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:06:00 +0100
Subject: Emacs is going to die! =( [was Re: Emacs + python (Was Re:
	python is going to die! =()
In-Reply-To: <cdd4e677.0410010149.50b50324@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<278de0e.0409201131.57baf7f9@posting.google.com>
	<414f61bf$0$29449$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<rwJ3d.1000$g42.675@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<87hdprv3qd.fsf_-_@ion.xlipstream.com>
	<du7fz5a8tte.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<cdd4e677.0410010149.50b50324@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7baql052f32n3kfksd9evoaq7ioip3kbb1@4ax.com>


[David]
> I do see the possibility [of Eclipse taking over from Emacs], but
> the Eclipse community is going to have to more eagerly embrace the
> non-Java world.

I tried Eclipse this week as a possible alternative to SciTE, which is
my current preferred Python editor.  I discovered two things:

1. There is no File/Open.  You can't just open an arbitrary file and
   edit it; the file must be part of a project.  This makes (some) sense
   for Java because your CLASSPATH limits where source files can be
   picked up from (but what about non-source files? or files that are
   indirectly related to your project?)

2. In the Python debugger (I was using the PyDev plugin) a Step took
   between 3 and 4 seconds on my 3GHz PC.  (I'd previously tried
   TruStudio and had been unable to make their debugger work at all.)

I uninstalled the whole thing sharpish.  If there are Eclipse/PyDev fans
out there who want to say "No, you've missed the 'let me open arbitrary
files' and 'make the Python debugger work at a decent speed' options",
I'm all ears!

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 23 17:47:33 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:47:33 -0700
Subject: Events and file polling in a C extension
In-Reply-To: <20041023182553.8F8.0.NOFFLE@ID-7776.user.dfncis.de>
References: <1098548686.827773@yasure>
	<20041023182553.8F8.0.NOFFLE@ID-7776.user.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20041023143030.0AF5.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Dirk Thierbach <dthierbach at gmx.de> wrote:
> 
> Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:
> > Quoth Dirk Thierbach <dthierbach at gmx.de>:
> 
> > So what would you do after select() returns with I/O ready?  Can
> > the library then read and parse, and return the result?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > I would stay away from threads unless you have a strong need for
> > concurrency that isn't already satisfied with select/poll.  
> 
> So would I, but at the moment I don't see how, unless Python supports
> some sort of event handling. 


I believe that most languages support event handling in one way or
another. Here is one way...

def handle_event(event):
    if event.typ == 'new_connection':
        #handle a new connection
    elif event.typ == ...

Or, if you want to use something that already has much of this designed
and built for sockets, check out asyncore or asynchat.  Use
asyncore.loop(timeout, 1) to poll the sockets every 1/100th of a second
or so, and you should be good.


> > It seems to me the simplest thing by far would be the arrangement I
> > suggested above,
> 
> Which one? Handling select in the main program? That doesn't work,
> because...
> 
> > Python doesn't come with an event handler model, except when used
> > with say a graphic toolkit - so for example Python/Tk will (I
> > assume) look a lot like Tcl/Tk in this respect.
> 
> ... I am exactly after something that looks like Python/Tk with
> respect to Tk-bindings. I want to create an object, let the main
> program do some bindings on that object, and then the main program
> can go on to do whatever it likes. The object should dispatch any
> events that arrive on the file descriptor by invoking the bindings,
> just like the widget bindings in Python/Tk.

These are not hard to make work reasonably.  They can be hard to do well
and in a general fashion.  If you want a general event-based framework,
give Twisted a look (though it does seem to be a bit more socket related).

> Of course I could create some sort of main loop myself, but that
> seems inelegant and not portable. After all, Python/Tk doesn't
> require you to call some sort of main loop, too.

While I do not develop with Tk, I believe you are incorrect.  Checking
Idle, I notice a call to: root.mainloop(), which seems to be the event
handler loop.

In regards to writing your own main loop; what is so inelegant and not
portable about it?  Having done so more than a dozen times, I would say
that writing your own main loop is usually the way to go, unless you
need to hook into some GUI toolkit or a pre-existing event framework, at
which point you can use the toolkit or framework's event processor to
handle dispatch.

 - Josiah



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Oct 19 03:36:29 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:36:29 +0200
Subject: Yet more SMTP
In-Reply-To: <20041018200308.07480.00002407@mb-m18.aol.com>
References: <20041018200308.07480.00002407@mb-m18.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20041019073629.GA1755@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 12:03:08AM +0000, LutherRevisited wrote:
> [...]
> s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.aol.com', 587)
> [...]
>         s.docmd('AUTH', 'PLAIN')
> [...]

Don't reinvent the wheel. Use .login instead(). Also, PLAIN doesn't
mean you send the password in plain text (it's encoded with base64).
And the developers of the Python standard library - in this case, me
:-P - already did that work once for you in .login() of the SMTP
object ;-)

-- Gerhard


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Oct 18 13:16:52 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:16:52 -0700
Subject: Print variable values by their names
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F9D@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Michael Krasnyk wrote:
> import sys
> for str in dir(sys): print str
> 
> Will be printed only variable names, but I need values from 
> list of variable names.

import sys
for name in dir(sys):
    print name, getattr(sys, name)


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net  Sun Oct 17 19:02:44 2004
From: riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net (Riccardo Galli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:02:44 +0200
Subject: ANN: curses-extra 0.3
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.17.23.02.42.587549@cut.me.sideralis.net>

curses-extra offers some widgets written using curses module.

Version 0.3 is now available for download from 
    http://www.sideralis.net/index.php?action=4&pjid=20

Changes in curses_extra 0.3
---------------------------

added Label widget
added TextEntry widget
added TextView widget
added documentation, browsable with pydoc or epydoc
examples improved
packaged with distutils
bugfixes

===========================

The following classes and functions are present in the module

Widget
    Button
    ButtonBar   #bar of buttons (automatically manage arrow keys)
    CheckButton
        RadioButton
    CheckButtonList #list of checkbutton (as ButtonBar)
    ComboBox
    Label
    Menu
    MenuBar
    TextEntry
    TextView

add_shortcut(pattern,action) #check combinations of keys, eg <ctrl>H
use_shortcut(c,obj) #check if character is a shortcut, and use it
                    # in case
                    #NOTE: widgets auto-check for the shortcuts

chgat(win[,y,x],count,attr,color) #change attributes of an area


-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 07:33:09 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:33:09 +0200
Subject: key argument for max?
References: <mailman.5265.1098376117.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm27ma.114npm917y3imlN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

> I was wondering if there's any plans to add a "key" argument to max
> (and min) like was done for sort(ed)?  I fairly often run into a

Unfortunately, no.  I think that the excellent key= optional argument to
sort should be extended to every order-related Python tidbit; min and
max are examples, but so should the heapq module's functions.
Unfortunately, this idea wasn't liked by the python-dev consensus back
in 2.4's formative stages, and it's now too late for any functional
changes to 2.4.  So, we can take it up again for 2.5 at some time.

> situation where I have something like:
> 
> counts = {}
> for item in iterable:
>     counts[item] = counts.get(item, 0) + 1
> _, max_item = max((count, item) for item, count in counts.items())
> 
> It would be nice to be able to write that last like like:
> 
> max(counts, key=counts.__getitem__)

One crucial aspect that any key= should maintain is never to compare
items that happen to have equal keys.  So, I think the semantics of that
line should rather be those of:

    max((counts[item], i, item) for i, item in enumerate(counts))[-1]

i.e. inserting an index (arbitrary in this case, as counts is a
dictionary) that will never be equal so no two items are compared.

If you _want_ to compare items, when they have the same count, you
should say that explicitly -- the default should be that key= means no
item comparison, for uniformity.  Unfortunately being explicit _and_
compact at the same time generally requires a lambda, such as:

    max(counts, key=lambda item: counts[item], item)


> If this seems like a good idea, maybe someone could point me in the
> right direction and I could try to make a patch?  I've never looked at
> the Python sources before, and it's been a long time since I've
> written any C, but if it's not too hard...

It's not too hard, but such a patch would not be accepted for Python
2.4, and it's a bit early to start making patches for 2.5, sigh.


Alex


From David.Vaughan at Gifford.UK.com  Fri Oct  1 12:29:12 2004
From: David.Vaughan at Gifford.UK.com (David Vaughan)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 17:29:12 +0100
Subject: List rotation
Message-ID: <C59AEFCA2D33284B8EE3C0A8C8C9004A108497@kiwi>


Malcolm Clift wrote:
> Can I also ask you if you are writing a python music app?

No, I just put that together yesterday evening.  But if you're looking
for more
ideas or some collaboration, let me know - a music app sophisticated
enough to
have built-in transposition sounds like a fun project.

David


David Vaughan
Structural Analyst
GIFFORD AND PARTNERS LTD
Carlton House, Ringwood Road, Woodlands,
Southampton, SO40 7HT,  UNITED KINGDOM
 
Tel: +44 (0)23 8081 7500      Fax: +44 (0)23 8081 7600
Email: David.Vaughan at gifford.uk.com
Web:  http://www.gifford.uk.com
  _____  

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for
the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed and may
be confidential.  If you are not the intended recipient or the person
responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, be
advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use,
dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is
strictly prohibited.


From andrew.stuart at xse.com.au  Sun Oct  3 18:17:44 2004
From: andrew.stuart at xse.com.au (Andrew Stuart)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 08:17:44 +1000
Subject: beta test release - catchmail for Python - new open source utility -
Message-ID: <001501c4a996$d000d300$4001a8c0@beast>

Hello all,

I am releasing a utility called catchmail to open source under a BSD style
license.

Here is the catchmail homepage:
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mysite/catchmail.htm

Catchmail is a Python utility that writes emails into a Postgres database.

Catchmail's SQL schema is based on an extended version of the Yukatan data
model (a SQL schema for relational storage of email RFC822 messages).

catchmail needs real world testing and feedback however before it can
progress beyond beta release.
It's not quite ready for release however - it needs more people to try to
use it and check it out before full scale public release.

If anyone has the time or the inclination I would value a code review and
advice being given as to how to do things differently or better.

I'm no great Python programmer so any volunteers who might be interested in
helping to enhance and help support catchmail would be much appreciated.  I
have set up a newsgroup at http://groups-beta.google.com/catchmail

There is also a final known problem that I would value advice on.
Everything seems to be working fine except one thing - unicode

If I create the database using this command, everything seems to run fine -
I can import 4000 emails if I create the Postgres data with this command:
createdb -U postgres catchmail;

If I create the Postgres database using this command, postgres starts to
come back with unicode errors when I do the import
createdb --encoding=UNICODE -U postgres test

The import process starts to fail on lots of messages with this error:
Database error: ERROR:  invalid byte sequence for encoding "UNICODE":
0xe92062

The objective is to have the database in Unicode so I suppose its quite an
important problem to resolve.  It looks to me like some sort of
encoding/decoding requirement but although I had a good look I couldn't sort
it out.

I'm afraid I don't much understand how unicode is meant to be used in this
sort of application - if you can throw any light on it for me it would be
appreciated.

How SHOULD unicode be implemented for a utility such as this?  I'd like
catchmail to be as flexible as possible and to lose as little data as
possible through things like character set conversions.

I found some references to client encoding and multibyte in the postgres
docs here - but maybe it should be fixed in the Python code?

SET CLIENT_ENCODING TO 'value';
http://jamesthornton.com/postgres/7.3/postgres/multibyte.html
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.4/static/multibyte.html#MULTIBYTE-TRANSLATION-TABLE

The latest version of catchmail is the one found on the website at
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mysite/catchmail.htm

Any feedback on catchmail or your experience with catchmail valued.

Thanks to the great work of Mark Hammond and Jukka Zitting!

Andrew Stuart
a n d r e w . s t u a r t @ x s e . c o m . a u









From lbates at syscononline.com  Thu Oct  7 18:35:23 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:35:23 -0500
Subject: Database and Interface for Python
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410071411.17321f9a@posting.google.com>
References: <6f402501.0410071411.17321f9a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <KcednWHIrJg6WfjcRVn-qw@comcast.com>

Michael Foord wrote:
> I'm writing a couple of modules that store information about user
> 'behaviour'. E.g. a user accesses a certain page of a website at a
> certain date-time with a certain referrer.
> 
> I need to analyse this information by different criteria. E.g. How
> many users accessed the website between August 5th and August 12th,
> listed by refferer !! etc It would be great to have a database engine
> where I could ask these questions in just a couple of queries, rather
> than having to implement all the sort/analyse functions myself.

Yep, databases are fast, reliable and scalable for this.

> 
> I guess this is as bad a time as anyto start to learn to use a
> database !! So I look on google and the situation is a little unclear.
> I can use the database API that will give me a 'consistent
> interface'... but I still need a database engine installed. e.g.
> MySQL. Not only that but I need a python interface to that engine that
> the database API can use ? (or I can just directly use the python
> binding for whichever database I pick ?).

Python has a good DB interface to MySQL that works well.
> 
> I think the web server I use will allow MySQL databases, so if I
> install it on my windoze box and install the MySQLdb python module
> then I'm well away....
> 
> 
> Have I got it right ? Can I do 'date range' queries using MySQL,
> MySQLdb and the Python database API ?

Yes you can.  Dates are stored in special format (not text) in the
database that make searching/sorting possible.  You can also define
index on a date column and jump directly to a specific date (skipping
all dates you don't want to process) or range of dates.

> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Fuzzy
> 
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 25 22:12:05 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:12:05 -0400
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5473.1098755721.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>		<1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>		<1098746958.22370.116.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>		<mailman.5466.1098748601.5135.python-list@python.org>		<clk5qk$4lt$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<clk89q$5da$1@news1.ucsd.edu>	<1098753922.18822.333.camel@emilio>
	<mailman.5473.1098755721.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lOudnbmh58joL-DcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>

Brendan Scott wrote:
> Brendan IAAL

Wow! finding a real live lawyer around here is a rarity.

> But DNHTAM

Okay, we won't hold it against you.

> And TINLA

Check: _not_ legal advice.  We promise not to act on it,
and in return you promise not to bill us $250 for reading
it, right?

;-)

-Peter


From johng2001 at rediffmail.com  Wed Oct 13 01:53:47 2004
From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 22:53:47 -0700
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
	<du7hdp0qv7s.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<5339b60d.0410120548.31dfde29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ba129ce7.0410122153.2b65bdc1@posting.google.com>

paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) wrote in message news:<5339b60d.0410120548.31dfde29 at posting.google.com>...
> Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message news:<du7hdp0qv7s.fsf at lehtori.cc.tut.fi>...
> > >>>>> "john" == John  <johng2001 at rediffmail.com> writes:
> > 
> >     john> Is there an equivalent of COM on Linux that I can get
> >     john> through Python.
> > 
> > Mono appears to be the future of COM equivalent technologies on
> > Linux. Python support just isn't stable/mature there yet.
> 
> It depends what everyone means by "COM equivalent". If you mean it as
> some kind of distributed object technology, then there are a lot of
> CORBA-related solutions out there: ORBit (PyORBit vs. ORBit-python),
> Fnorb, omniORB (omniORBpy), and so on. In addition, you have a
> selection of unstandardised technologies to choose from, too.
> 
> > There is also xpcom.
> 
> As well as UNO (PyUNO), but that is arguably in the realm of the other
> principal interpretation of "COM equivalent": the application
> automation technology. On that front, there's ORBit and Bonobo for
> GNOME-based applications (I believe) and DCOP for KDE-based
> applications. Eventually, there'll be standardisation of such
> technologies, and I imagine that D-BUS fits in somewhere here.
> 
> >     john> My need is to have some sort of language independent
> >     john> component framework. I can think of CORBA but I have to have
> >     john> a server running. I
> > 
> > How critical is this criterion? I would definitely go with CORBA.
> 
> Yes. Years ago I had a lot of fun with ILU, but I imagine that any of
> the more mature/supported Python-compatible ORBs would be suitable.
> Certainly, omniORB (http://omniorb.sourceforge.net/) would be my first
> consideration.
> 
> Meanwhile, beware of suggestions that you use SOAP or XML-RPC! If
> remote method calling is what interests you, such technologies are not
> *directly* applicable (unless, in the case of SOAP, XML documents are
> the primary representation of data in your system).

Thanks. I think DCOP and Bonobo are what I am looking for. I use
omniORB. I dropped SOAP for most part after I found that CORBA
complexity was just a myth. I just did not think CORBA was what I
needed for this particular project.


From brian at rk-speed-rugby.dk  Tue Oct 19 09:14:35 2004
From: brian at rk-speed-rugby.dk (Brian Elmegaard)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 15:14:35 +0200
Subject: manipulating PDF-files with Python?
References: <994828d9.0410190454.3217bebf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uis96vohw.fsf@rk-speed-rugby.dk>

tuo_pe at yahoo.com (Tuomas P) writes:

> Are there any open source Python tools that one could manipulate
> PDF-files with? By manipulation I mean, for instance, deleting or
> adding or replacing  pages, etc.

os.system and pdflatex with the pdfpages package is an option.

-- 
Brian (remove the sport for mail)
http://www.et.dtu.dk/staff/be


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Oct 31 14:36:40 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:36:40 GMT
Subject: Plugin system
In-Reply-To: <r--dnX3u7NvWqBjcRVn-vg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20041031193640.9171.948771370.divmod.quotient.1161@ohm>

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:56:10 -0500, "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
> 
> I forgot what I'm doing in my own code.  I looked at it again and found that 
> I'm not using isinstance(), instead I am doing a check for 
> "baseClass.Handler in hndlrCls.__bases__", which is much better, because it 
> doesn't need the creation of an instance.  Here is the actual code (my 
> handlers are the equivalent of your plugins):

  I wouldn't go as far as to say it is "much better".  Using issubclass() might be, though.

  Jp


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct 29 16:44:21 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:44:21 +0200
Subject: quick regex question
References: <20041028164648.GA32572@utoronto.ca>
	<mailman.5621.1098983663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clrddj$vq1$00$1@news.t-online.com> <2ufd92F29iv3oU2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <clua1r$9fo$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Oliver Fromme wrote:

>  > > >>> string1 = 'string with spaces'
>  > > >>> ''.join([s.title() for s in string1.split()])
>  > > 'StringWithSpaces'
>  > 
>  > Or, without the list comprehension:
>  > 
>  > >>> "".join("string with spaces".title().split())
>  > 'StringWithSpaces'
>  > 
>  > > Clear, concise, and uses in the builtin str.title method, which
>  > > appears to do exactly what you want.
> 
> Uhm, I think the following is more efficient:
> 
>>>> "string with spaces".title().replace(" ", "")
> 'StringWithSpaces'
> 
> It doesn't split into a temporary list of strings which
> are then joined together again.  Also, I believe it's more
> readable than the split/join approach.

You win :-)

Peter
 



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct  8 13:35:16 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:35:16 -0700
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <41668EDD.8090808@holdenweb.com>
References: <00ab01c4ad2a$bfe9aa90$ccbefea9@twilliams>
	<41668EDD.8090808@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <20041008100914.ED88.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> > Steve, Andrew, Josiah,
> > 
> > Thanks for your answers.
> > 
> > The outgoing SMTP is multi-threaded,   so the threads disrupt each other's
> > output to the file-like object  if there is any concurrent outgoing mail
> > activity.
> > 
> > Is there anyway I can seperate the output from each thread and capture it ?
> > 
> > The outgoing threads are started  with
> > 
> > thread.start_new_thread(outThread,(args,None))
> > 
> > One thread per out-going message.  Each handles the outgoing message sending
> > and error-handling for the message.   I can't talk back to the calling
> > thread/class because it is the incoming SMTP part and it is destroyed when
> > the remote client connection is dropped.  (The SMTP server is a filtering
> > relay)
> > 
> AT this point I might be tempted to modify the smtplib code so it 
> doesn't use sys.stdout for its debug output, but some other object that 
> can be passed to SMTP.__init__().
> 
> Since sys.stdout is going to be common to all modules, I think you have 
> highlighted a weakness in the smtplib debugging paradigm. But if some 
> smart type can come up with a better solution I'd love to see it.


Instantiate a copy of multi_thread_output (defined below), and set it to
the sys.stdout.

Every once and a while, call its 'get_ready()' method to get the output
for a thread.  If there are none ready, it will return None.


 - Josiah


Example use:

>>> t = multi_thread_output()
>>> def st(i):
...     for j in xrange(100):
...             print >>t, "message %i from %i"%(j, i)
...             time.sleep(.01)
...
>>> import time
>>> for i in xrange(10):
...     threading.Thread(target=st, args=(i,)).start()
...
>>> t.get_ready().read()
'message 0 from 9\n message 1 from 9\n message 2 from 9\nmessage 3 from 9\nmessa
ge 4 from 9\nmessage 5 from 9\nmessage 6 from 9\nmessage 7 from 9\nmessage 8 fro
m 9\nmessage 9 from 9\nmessage 10 from 9\nmessage 11 from 9\nmessage 12 from 9\n
[lines cut]

#----------actual code below-----------

import threading
from StringIO import StringIO

class multi_thread_output:
    def __init__(self):
        self.lock = threading.Lock()
        self.ios = {}
    def write(self, data):
        thread = threading.currentThread().getName()
        try:
            self.lock.acquire()
            if thread in self.ios:
                self.ios[thread].write(data)
            else:
                t = self.ios[thread] = StringIO()
                t.write(data)
        finally:
            self.lock.release()
    def get_ready(self):
        names = {}
        for th in threading.enumerate():
            names[th.getName()] = None
        try:
            self.lock.acquire()
            for name in self.ios:
                if name not in names:
                    r = self.ios.pop(name)
                    r.seek(0)
                    return r
        finally:
            self.lock.release()

Blah blah, this work placed in the public domain, blah blah.  If you use
it heavily, at least pretend to reference me.



From alia_khouri at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 22:20:55 2004
From: alia_khouri at yahoo.com (Alia Khouri)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 19:20:55 -0700
Subject: Survey of use of Python Language in Open-source / Free Music
	Software
Message-ID: <40a939c9.0410291820.fada696@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Here are the results (in no particular order) of an informal survey of
open-source / free music applications which use python in some form or
the other. If you know of any other other examples please add them to
the list.

Enjoy (-;

AK

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Survey of use of Python Language in Open-source / Free Music Software
----------------------------------------------------------------------

pymps
http://www.anti-particle.com/pymps.shtml
Pymps is the PYthon Music Playing System - a web based mp3/ogg
jukebox. It's written in Python and utilises the PostgreSQL database.
 
m3ute2
http://sourceforge.net/projects/m3ute2/
m3ute2 is program for copying, moving, and otherwise organizing M3U
playlists and directories. m3ute2 can also generate detailed reports
about lists of files.

fmod
http://www.fmod.org/
FMOD is the fastest, most powerful and easiest to use sound system on
Windows, Linux, and Windows CE there is,   and now Macintosh,
GameCube, PS2 & XBox!. FMOD supports 3d sound, midi, mods, mp3, ogg
vorbis, wma, aiff, recording, obstruction/occlusion, cd playback
(analog or digital), cd ripping, mmx, internet streaming, dsp effects,
spectrum analysis, user created samples and streams, synchronization
support, ASIO, EAX 2&3, C/C++/VB/Delphi and more.

pysonic
http://pysonic.sourceforge.net/
pySonic is a Python wrapper around the high performance, cross
platform FMOD sound library. You get all the benefits of the FMOD
library, but in a Pythonic, object oriented package.

PMIDI
http://sourceforge.net/projects/uncassist
The PMIDI library allows the generation of short MIDI sequences in
Python code.The interface allows a programmer to specify songs,
instruments, measures, and notes. Playback is handled by the Windows 
MIDI stream API so proper playback timing is handled by the OS rather
than by client code. The library is especially useful for generating
earcons.

PythonMIDI
http://www.mxm.dk/products/public/pythonmidi
The Python Midi package is a collection of classes handling Midi in
and output in the Python programming language.

PythonSound
http://pythonsound.sourceforge.net/
The Python Sound Project aims to develop a productive community around
Python, Csound and other synthesis engines as tools for algorithmic
and computer assisted composition of electroacoustic music.
 
AthenaCL
http://www.flexatone.net/athena.html
AthenaCL is an open-source, cross-platform, command-line program that
functions as both a pitch (class) set theory utility (capable of both
set and voice-leading modeling and analysis) as well as an
object-orientated, Python-scriptable algorithmic front-end to Csound.
Combining these features allows rapid and flexible scoring of Csound
instruments with the elegance of Python-written texture algorithms.
These simple algorithms allow the organization of pitch-materials by
ordered content-groups, employing 12-tone set-class and pitch-class
notations. Rather than writing its own music, AthenaCL is a
compositional assistant: the algorithms create complex textural
surfaces, leaving the limitless mixture and placement of these
textures and their attributes entirely in the hands of the composer.
 
PyJack
http://www.a2hd.com/software/
This is a Python C extension module which provides an interface to the
Jack Audio Server. It is possible to access the Jack graph to perform
port connections/disconnections, monitor graph change events, and to
perform realtime audio capture and playback using Numeric Python
arrays. This is released under the GPL.

Csound / CsoundVST
http://www.csounds.com/
Csound is a programming language designed and optimized for sound
rendering and signal processing. The language consists of over 450
opcodes - the operational codes that the sound designer uses to build
"instruments" or patches. Although there are an increasing number of
graphical "front-ends" for the language, you typically design and
modify your patches using a word processor. Usually, you create two
text files - a .orc (orchestra) file containing the "instruments," and
a .sco (score) file containing the "notes." In Csound, the complexity
of your patches is limited by your knowledge, interest, and need, but
never by the language itself. For instance, a 22,050 oscillator
additive synthesizer with 1024 stage envelope generators on each is
merely a copy-and-paste operation. The same goes for a 1 million voice
granular texture! Have you ever dreamed of sounds such as these? Well
in Csound you can. And in Csound these dreams can come true!

dublin 
http://seqdublin.sourceforge.net/
Dublin is an object oriented framework to generate events in pd. Every
objects is defined in python and then it interacts with other objects
in pure-data. The goal is not only the provide an external python
facility to pd but also to give the functionality of a sequencer. As
for the user interface, it uses Idle, the Python IDE to edit and run
event scripts.

MusicKit
http://musickit.sourceforge.net/
The MusicKit is an object-oriented software system for building music,
sound, signal processing, and MIDI applications. It has been used in
such diverse commercial applications as music sequencers, computer
games, and document processors. Professors and students in academia
have used the MusicKit in a host of areas, including music
performance, scientific experiments, computer-aided instruction, and
physical modeling. Using the Python to Objective C bridge PyObjC
enables applications and utilities to be written in Python, an
interpreted object-oriented language.

GNU Solfege
http://solfege.org/
GNU Solfege is a computer program written to help you practice ear
training.It can be useful when practicing the simple and mechanical
exercises.

Snack
http://www.speech.kth.se/snack/
The Snack Sound Toolkit is designed to be used with a scripting
language such as Tcl/Tk or Python. Using Snack you can create powerful
multi-platform audio applications with just a few lines of code. Snack
has commands for basic sound handling, such as playback, recording,
file and socket I/O. Snack also provides primitives for sound
visualization, e.g. waveforms and spectrograms. It was developed
mainly to handle digital recordings of speech, but is just as useful
for general audio. Snack has also successfully been applied to other
one-dimensional signals. The combination of Snack and a scripting
language makes it possible to create sound tools and applications with
a minimum of effort. This is due to the rapid development nature of
scripting languages. As a bonus you get an application that is
cross-platform from start. It is also easy to integrate Snack based
applications with existing sound analysis software.

Pygame
http://pygame.org/
Pygame is a set of Python modules designed for writing games. It is
written on top of the excellent SDL library. This allows you to create
fully featured games and multimedia programs in the python language.
Pygame is highly portable and runs on nearly every platform and
operating system.

Pyper
http://www.stanford.edu/~andyszy/pyper/
Pyper is a musical development environment. It allows you to write
Python scripts that generates music in real-time. Pyper uses QuickTime
Musical Instruments for synthesis.


From nomail at no.way  Sat Oct  9 07:43:58 2004
From: nomail at no.way (Bats)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 13:43:58 +0200
Subject: ANN: GUI wrapper for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython
References: <mailman.4573.1097237841.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ck8aib$58d$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<newscache$u0ab5i$7lm$1@asterix.tee.gr>
Message-ID: <ck8is4$6dh$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Stelios Xanthakis had this to say:

> Bats wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "run2.py", line 40, in ?
>>     GUI=wrap_pygtk
>> NameError: name 'wrap_pygtk' is not defined
>> 
> 
> I don't know. Sounds like a python bug.
> Can't we say:
> 
>   import foo
>   bar = foo
> 
> anymore?
> 
> Maybe copy the wrap_*.py files into examples/
> and ./run2.py from in there?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Stelios
I did some tinkering.
With python 2.2 it finally runs ok (I had PYTHONPATH issues)
With python 2.3 it chokes on:
GUI=wrap_pygtk
But, if you change that to GUI=wrap_pyqt, it runs fine.

HTH
-- 
Bats
~..~
(I can only post on weekends and rare times during the week.)



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 23 10:50:33 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:50:33 -0400
Subject: Can Python run on the Internet
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5346.1098498251.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cl58ko$2l0$1@sparta.btinternet.com>	<c718a6cf.0410221730.2e95000c@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5346.1098498251.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Ohued.13731$SW3.10133@fed1read01>

Cliff Wells wrote:

> On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 18:30 -0700, Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
> 
>>EMBARSSINGLY INCORRECTLY!
> 
> 
> Embarssingly indeedly.
> 
Yup, people who live in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 04:37:10 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:37:10 +0200
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<clkvab$1dc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1gm9ekq.1w0d56nz3g6ajN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Michael Hoffman <m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote:

> kartik wrote:
> 
> > i suggest u base your comments on real code, rather than reasoning in
> > an abstract manner from your ivory tower.
> 
> Could someone please help me with a related question? Why do I have the
> unmistakable feeling that this is a troll? Is it the misspellings? The
> gratuitous sniping? Or the OP's suggestions to provide "real code" when
> he has not done the same?

It's probably just the usual way he interacts, no big deal.  He didn't
ask for real code to be provided, but used to base one's comments on,
please note; and I gave two real-life examples (a woodworking equipment
company in Italy bidding to supply some equipment to a Turkish customer
who prefers to get billed in their local currency; a factorial) without
any trouble and without needing to post the code (it's quite obvious).


Alex


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Oct 24 18:26:31 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:26:31 -0400
Subject: Mindboggling Scope Issue
References: <200410241346.12230.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <clha6h$s7d$1@sea.gmane.org>


"James Stroud" <jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu> wrote in message 
news:200410241346.12230.jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu...
> I originally posted this to the help list, but I wanted to try a broader
> audience. Its so bizarre, that it may take some discourse to understand 
> what
> is going on.

Here is a start.

> Far below are two alternative methods I have made inside a class. In 
> "method1"
> I create a name called "passWindow.result" and use it in the "ok()" 
> function.
> In "method2", I simply call this name "result".

1. In Python terms, "passWindow.result" is not a name but a dotted name 
(attribute reference) consisting of two names.  Perhaps you know that, but 
the difference is important when it comes to scopes and name lookup, which 
is the crux of your question here.

2. Your code is longer that people usually post, which is longer than some 
are willing to read for free -- especially when there are two versions that 
one must mentally diff by scrolling back and forth.  Inserting the changed 
lines of method 2 into method 1 as comments would make the differences much 
easier to see.

[...]
> Testing Matt's explanation, I began a fresh CLI session (using the same 
> python
> executable used for my program). The session is cut and pasted from my
> terminal:
>
> % python
> Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40)
> [GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> def outer():
> ...   def inner():
> ...     print bob
> ...   bob = "wuzzup?"
> ...   inner()
> ...
>>>> outer()
> wuzzup?
>
> This works as I expect and in accord with Matt's explanation and the Laws 
> of
> Common Sense, but it appears to be entirely inconsistent with the 
> behavior of
> "method2" below. Thus, I am completely bewildered.
[...]
>      def ok():
>        # GETS ERROR!

3. But what is the behavior that you are labelling 'ERROR'?  Does method2 
run but produce something other than what you expect?  If so, please give 
an example (or better, examples) of an expectation and result that diverge. 
Or does method2 raise an uncaught exception?  If that is so, please give 
the traceback.

Terry J. Reedy





From nomail at no.way  Sun Oct 24 02:09:28 2004
From: nomail at no.way (Bats)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:09:28 +0200
Subject: Fedora 1 and Eric3
References: <cldm39$qo7$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <clfgq2$5hs$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Bats had this to say:

> Has anyone here managed to install Eric (Python GUI) on Fedora Core 1?
> I have had no end of sh*t from qscintilla right on up. It seems I have to
> jump through an endless series of hoops in a certain order to get to the
> end.
> 
> Any step-by-step kinda help?
> 
> *:*
Ah well.... no feedback.
-- 
Bats
~..~
(I can only post on weekends and rare times during the week.)



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  5 10:38:51 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:38:51 +0100
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
Message-ID: <fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>

[Sam G.]
 > According to the fact that all Thread run on the same CPU (if i didn't
 > understand wrong), i'm asking if python will suffer from the future
 > multicore CPU. Will not python use only one core, then a half or a
 > quarter of CPU ? It could be a serious problem for the future of 
python...

I agree that it could potentially be a serious hindrance for cpython if 
"multiple core" CPUs become commonplace. This is in contrast to jython 
and ironpython, both of which support multiple-cpu parallelism.

Although I completely accept the usual arguments offered in defense of 
the GIL, i.e. that it isn't a problem in the great majority of use 
cases, I think that position will become more difficult to defend as 
desktop CPUs sprout more and more execution pipelines.

I think that this also fits in with AM Kuchling's recent 
musing/thesis/prediction that the existing cpython VM may no longer be 
in use in 5 years, and that it may be superceded by python 
"interpreters" running on top of other VMs, namely the JVM, the CLR, 
Smalltalk VM, Parrot, etc, etc, etc.

http://www.amk.ca/diary/archives/cat_python.html#003382

I too agree with Andrew's basic position: the Python language needs a 
period of library consolidation. There is so much duplication of 
functionality out there, with the situation only getting worse as people 
re-invent the wheel yet again using newer features such generators, 
gen-exps and decorators.

Just my ?0,02.

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Sat Oct  9 22:28:32 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 22:28:32 -0400
Subject: The IDE question
Message-ID: <41689E50.3010301@kzoo.edu>

I'm trying to find an IDE for python that I'm comfortable with. For my 
needs IDLE actually works 99% of the time, but on my current project I 
need to have lots of files open at once, and I would really prefer to 
have tabbed browsing. I'd even try to code this into IDLE myself but I 
have no experience with Tk.

All of the IDEs I've found (google + python wiki page) are either A) 
Commercial or B) Written for either an older version of python or 
wxPython or C) Are syntax highlighting in eclipse and that's it.

All I'm really looking for is the equivalent of IDLE with tabbed 
browsing. Anyone have any suggestions?




From secun at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 11:33:44 2004
From: secun at yahoo.com (ChrisH)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:33:44 GMT
Subject: The IDE question
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7k6ty4gom.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <MPG.1bd4721391fc4c02989691@news2.atlantic.net>

How is the debugger working on pydev?

I haven't looked at it in a while.

In article <du7k6ty4gom.fsf at amadeus.cc.tut.fi>, ville at spammers.com says...
> >>>>> "dataangel" == dataangel  <k04jg02 at kzoo.edu> writes:
> 
>     dataangel> All of the IDEs I've found (google + python wiki page)
>     dataangel> are either A) Commercial or B) Written for either an
>     dataangel> older version of python or wxPython or C) Are syntax
>     dataangel> highlighting in eclipse and that's it.
> 
> PyDev eclipse plugin currently offers much more than syntax
> highlighting. It's definitely worth a look.
> 
> 


From adurdin at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 19:35:01 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:35:01 +1100
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <20041005215749.GA5891@burma.localdomain>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<864d3709041003152471cf26fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041005215749.GA5891@burma.localdomain>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a04100516356ea1cc30@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:57:49 -0300, Gustavo Niemeyer
<niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:
> 
> That's not true. The def statement is rerun every loop, no matter
> what parameters are used. One can check that by issuing:
> 
> print MyClass.method0.im_func
> print MyClass.method1.im_func

Hmmm... If I create MyClass as above, I get the following results
which I don't understand:

>>> mc = MyClass()
>>> id(mc.method0)
9343264
>>> id(mc.method1)
9343264
>>> mc.method0
<bound method MyClass.newmethod of <__main__.MyClass instance at 0x008E93A0>>
>>> mc.method1
<bound method MyClass.newmethod of <__main__.MyClass instance at 0x008E93A0>>
>>> mc.method0.im_func
<function newmethod at 0x008E7730>
>>> mc.method1.im_func
<function newmethod at 0x008EC0F0>
>>> id(mc.method0.im_func)
9336624
>>> id(mc.method1.im_func)
9355504

Why do mc.method0 and mc.method1 appear to be the same object?

Even more confusing to me is:

>>> class Foo:
...     def method0(self):
...             pass
...     def method1(self):
...             pass
...     def method2(self):
...             pass
...
>>> Foo.method0
<unbound method Foo.method0>
>>> Foo.method1
<unbound method Foo.method1>
>>> Foo.method2
<unbound method Foo.method2>
>>> f = Foo()
>>> id(f.method0)
9345304
>>> id(f.method1)
9918464
>>> id(f.method2)
9918464

Here f.method1 and f.method2 share the same id, which is different to
that of f.method1...

Can anyone enlighten me as to why this happens?


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Oct 31 17:08:56 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:08:56 -0600
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<4183f2b0$0$209$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<2uiaqmF2as1ihU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<4184c277$0$265$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gmirtb.dymeyujh00iuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4184fa72$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <10oaojs29dqctc7@news.supernews.com>


"Max M" <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote in message 
news:4184fa72$0$226$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk...
> Alex Martelli wrote:
>
>> There are, of course, several reasons for the Parrot people to do their
>> own VM rather than accept Microsoft's design (or Sun's, for that
>> matter).  I don't understand your "why" question...!
>
> "Why" as in "what is the difference, and the advantage of parrot", not as 
> in "Why do they want to do something as stupid"
>
> All the virtual machines seems to boost the same advantages for all the 
> languages.

Actually, they don't. Jython runs at about 1/3rd the speed as CPython.
I'm surprised that IronPython runs as fast as it does, although Microsoft's
attitude at making the  CLR a multi-language platform (as distinct from
Sun's deliberate direction to make the JVM a single-language
platform) may be part of the difference.

Given that nobody in the Perl camp is going to spend more than
a few chuckles at the idea of tying Perl 6 to a proprietary Microsoft
product, and the proven poor performance of the JVM for
dynamic languages, they really didn't have much of a choice in
rewriting their already existing virtual machine.

> So I just wondered if anybody had a few practical examples of the 
> difference, and why I should get excited over Parrot.

Parrot was originally intended to run both Perl 6 and Perl 5. Adding
Python was an afterthought, and somewhat a consequence of an
April Fools joke. Some people think it still is.

> So far, it seems like a better idea to get Python running on .net/mono, as 
> I cannot seem to get around the Windows platform in my professional work.

Shrug. I cannot get excited about a proprietary Microsoft platform.
If anyone wants to port IronPython to Mono, I suspect the path is
clear (although maybe not - I don't know the license for that.)

John Roth

>
> -- 
>
> hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark
>
> http://www.mxm.dk/
> IT's Mad Science 



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Oct  5 04:13:27 2004
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 01:13:27 -0700
Subject: XML and UnicodeError
References: <Xns9578AE59045A7devnulloo@130.133.1.19>
Message-ID: <5339b60d.0410050013.6bbc673d@posting.google.com>

Pinke Panke <dev at null.oo> wrote in message news:<Xns9578AE59045A7devnulloo at 130.133.1.19>...
> Dear people,
> 
> I wrote a python script to create html files. The structure was stored in 
> a nested array. For easier maintaining at any time I desribe the 
> structure in XML, using the minidom parser and a small function to 
> convert the XML structure into the array structure. So far so good.

Note that any access to textual data in your DOM (XML) document will
yield Unicode values, not strings - this is relevant below.

> Then the mess started. The XML document is described as utf-8, stored as 
> utf-8. iso-8859-1 makes no difference in this case.

After you've parsed the XML document, none of the encodings are
relevant - until you serialise the document, everything should be
Unicode (although I'm sure I've seen some XML libraries use plain
strings to represent values which consist only of ASCII characters).

> When an character > 128, e.g. an umlaut, occurs my string raises errors. 
> An example:
> 
> headline = structure[0]
> pagetext = structure[1]
> foo = headline + "bar" + pagetext
> >>> UnicodeError

Are you not addings strings to Unicode values here? I can imagine that
at some point you've decided to change headline or pagetext to
something other than that extracted from the DOM document. However, if
you've used plain Python strings with non-ASCII characters, Python has
no way of knowing how to combine such strings with Unicode values,
since the encoding used in your strings is never made explicit.

> In my script there are many of such operations. The simple example is 
> solved easily with appending .encode('iso-8859-1') at the structure 
> statements. So far not so nice but ok. I hope there would be a simpler 
> solution.

The solution is to use Unicode throughout.

> But there are also string replacements via regexes. An example to make a 
> picture of it:
> pat = re.compile('<putithere>')
> foo = 'def'
> bar = 'abc<putithere>ghi'
> htmlcode = pat.sub(foo,bar)
> 
> Appending .encode(...) to foo and bar does not fix the UnicodeError.
> 
> Is there any solution, something I forgot or I could make better? Is 
> there any logic behind it? ;-)

Yes, but it's complicated, so my advice is to...

  1. Let minidom provide you with Unicode values.
  2. Convert any other text to Unicode as soon as possible.
  3. Manipulate only Unicode values - don't mix them up with
     plain strings.
  4. Serialise to your chosen encoding only when preparing
     output.

Paul


From golux at comcast.net  Sun Oct 24 00:55:58 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:55:58 -0400
Subject: simple recursion help
In-Reply-To: <8ef9bea6.0410231916.450f67d@posting.google.com>
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gm4uqv.nmgjbj1vt0spjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0410231916.450f67d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417B35DE.2020707@comcast.net>

Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> ...  The functional version would be:
> 
> strings = lambda Xs, k: reduce(lambda r, i: [p + x for p in r for x
> in Xs], range(k), [''])

Wow!  Grand prize for elegance.  :)


From nytimes at swiftdsl.com.au  Sun Oct 17 10:21:49 2004
From: nytimes at swiftdsl.com.au (huy)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:21:49 +1000
Subject: Quixote vs mod_python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4928.1097739363.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4928.1097739363.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41728001$0$21874$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>

vjshield-widgets at yahoo.com wrote:
> I tried most of the options you mentioned and decided
> to go with mpservlets. It has worked out very well so
> far :
> 
> http://home.comcast.net/~d.popowich/mpservlets/
> 
> which sits on top of mod_python. 
> 
> Give the live tutorial a go:
> 
> http://lnx1.blue-fox.com/~dpopowich/mpstutorial/

There is only one problem I find with mod_python and that is 
"debugging". You have to actually run it just to find out syntax errors 
because of the apache import.

Any guidance is appreciated.

Huy


From noone at here.com  Mon Oct  4 13:04:38 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:04:38 +0100
Subject: append to  items  depending on prior item
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cjrvna$rf4$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi Alex,

I'm just gonna say thankyou for your time and effort. I hope that I've left
you and Peter with some hair : )
I can more fully appreciate now that I do not perhaps describe my
requirements as clear as I think that I do. You, however, have managed to
divine my needs, and both you and Peter have highlighted the fact that
perhaps I hadn't thought the problem through well enough in the first place
before I posted.

Anyway, bottom line is that this code will do what I wanted : )

All the best,

Malcolm




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 26 12:21:38 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:21:38 -0700
Subject: comparing multiple copies of terrabytes of data?
In-Reply-To: <Y6adnT9_jr6Ny-PcRVn-hQ@giganews.com>
References: <mailman.5446.1098734965.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Y6adnT9_jr6Ny-PcRVn-hQ@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <20041026091957.0B44.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
>     for dig in digs:
>         if dig != m.update(f2.read(b)).digest():
>             print "files 1 and 2 differ before", f2.tell()
>             good = 0
>             break
>     m = mn()
>     for dig in digs:
>         if dig != m.update(f3.read(b)).digest():
>             print "files 1 and 2 differ before", f3.tell()
Oops, copy/paste bug.      ^^^^^^^
Should be:
            print "files 1 and 3 differ before", f3.tell()

 - Josiah



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Oct 23 11:09:30 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:09:30 -0500
Subject: Python C API Question.
In-Reply-To: <mVhed.5099$5i5.1298@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <mVhed.5099$5i5.1298@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20041023150929.GA728@unpythonic.net>

Please see
http://docs.python.org/api/listObjects.html

C's PyList_Append() is roughly equivalent to Python's list.append().
If you want to construct a list without knowing how many items will
eventually be in it, use PyList_New(0), then PyList_Append for each
item you want to add.  This will be as efficient as the similar
Python code
    l = [f(x) for x in s]
in terms of the number of resizes the internal array-of-pointers
undergoes.

Jeff
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From stuart.hungerford at anu.edu.au  Mon Oct 18 22:10:24 2004
From: stuart.hungerford at anu.edu.au (Stuart Hungerford)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:10:24 +1000
Subject: Luther Blisset
In-Reply-To: <7nXcd.719$si.122@lakeread04>
References: <9jb8n014advbvs5n0li6lo1a0d4cedbcsp@4ax.com>
	<7nXcd.719$si.122@lakeread04>
Message-ID: <41747784$1@clarion.carno.net.au>

Steve Holden wrote:

 > [...]
>> I'm trying to reach one Luther Blisset in conjunction with a recipe we
>> want to use in the second edition of the Python Cookbook. The address
>> we have for him, which does not work anymore, is:
>>
>> Luthor Blisset <situ at tioni.st>
>>
>> If anyone knows Luthor and can help me locate him, I'd much appreciate
>> it.
>>
 > [...]
> I think you'll find that Luther Blisset is a nom-de-plume used when the 
> original contributor didn;t want to be,  or perhaps couldn;t be. 
> identified.  See

    The "situationist" email address was a always a giveaway.  Very clever!


Cheers,

Stu

--

Stuart Hungerford
ANU Internet Futures Project


From indigo at bitglue.com  Mon Oct 11 07:37:36 2004
From: indigo at bitglue.com (Phil Frost)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:37:36 -0400
Subject: define 'in' operator on lists
In-Reply-To: <ckdl7u$m08$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <ckdl7u$m08$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <20041011113736.GB31784@unununium.org>

On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 11:53:36AM +0200, ..:: sjf ::.. wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I want to define 'in' operator (or any "magic" function) on list which 
> returns True value if all of list (i.e. _list) elements appears in other 
> list (i.e. L) in the same order and False otherwise. By way of example:
> 
> L = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]
> _list = [3, 4, 5]
> 
> if L2 in L0:
> 	return True
> else:
> 	return False
> 
> How to do that?

You might find that the 'sets' module does what you need.


From fakeaddress at nowhere.org  Mon Oct 11 23:46:15 2004
From: fakeaddress at nowhere.org (Bryan Olson)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 03:46:15 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <wzmzytmuji.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<7xoejdvinv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<483ad.27373$QJ3.22451@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<wzmzytmuji.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <bsIad.28654$QJ3.25079@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Piet van Oostrum wrote:

 >>>>>>Bryan Olson <fakeaddress at nowhere.org> (BO) wrote:
 > BO> I'm not really up-to-date on modern multi-processor support.
 > BO> Back in grad school I read some papers on cache coherence, and I
 > BO> don't know how well the problems have been solved.  The issue
 > BO> was that a single processor can support a one-instruction lock
 > BO> (in the usual no-contention case) simply by supplying an
 > BO> uninterruptable read-and-update instruction, but on a multi-
 > BO> processor, all the processors have respect the lock.
 >
 > For multiprocessor systems, uninterruptible isn't enough (depending 
on your
 > definition of uninterruptible). Memory operations from other processors
 > also shouldn't interleave with the instruction. Modern processors usually
 > have a 'test and set' or 'compare and swap' instruction for this purpose,
 > which lock memory for the duration of the operation.

I'm with you that far.  The reason I mentioned cache coherence
is that locking memory isn't enough on MP systems.  Another
processor may have the value in local cache memory.  For all the
processors to respect the lock, they have to communicate the
locking before any processor can update the address.

If every thread treats a certain memory address is used as lock,
each can access it only by instructions that go to main memory.
But then locking every object can have a devastating effect on
speed.


--
--Bryan Olson
(who, incidentlly, hates his initials)


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 30 11:02:35 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:02:35 -0400
Subject: Plugin system
In-Reply-To: <2uhla5F2ahviqU2@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uhjppF2a61u6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41839c8b$0$78279$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<2uhla5F2ahviqU2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Rpudnd4nENKWMB7cRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> Irmen de Jong wrote:
>>Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
>>
>>>How would you implement a plugin system (for a web-based application)?
>>
>>This is so general a question that I cannot think of anything concrete to answer.
>>Please ask again, with more detail about what you want/need/have in mind.
> 
> Okay, the question is too open: My focus is on how you would structure
> the plugin code (directories, files) and how you would write code to
> load these plugins.

And _this_ sounds like a combination of something that's more
a design issue (the structure) and a trivial implementation
detail (trivial in Python, anyway).

I'll try anyway, as a first test case:  put all plugins in a
standard folder, with nothing else present in that folder.
They can be individual modules or packages as you will.
The code to load the plugin consists of an __import__...
and not much else.

Maybe this feedback will help you refine the question further...

-Peter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 03:59:03 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:59:03 +0200
Subject: Python Patterns
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4162ef68$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<hos9m0h427fqgtfoqkck6rto7gsudogurl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1gla65m.176vigs1yk671vN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Johannes Eble <skywalkerpackage at hotmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> >Yep -- I've been writing about DPs with/for Python for years now (that's
> >the invariable background to almost all of my conference talks &c, check
> >most of them out at www.strakt.com), and one day (once I'm done doing
> >2nd editions of cookbooks and nutshells;-) I hope to write a book about
> >that (plus materials on agile programming practices, again with Python
> >as the explanatory language).  
> 
> Will your book also be influenced by Design Patterns in Dynamic
> Languages e.g. Common Lisp? Peter Norvig argues that 16 GoF Patterns
> are simply workarounds of C++ like language shortcomings. It would be
> very interesting to see such a discussion for Python. Also, Norvig's
> slides are somewhat too terse for me (as well as Lisp macros etc.).
> It's a pity that most of the pattern books are based on the GoF book
> only.

I recommend The Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion, an excellent book.
And yes, I have the same observation on some of _my_ too-terse slides
(at www.strakt.com): some classic patterns are workarounds for static
typing (and, also, for non-firstclassness of some constructs, to a
lesser extent).

Outside of the GoF's book, there's actually a wealth of pattern books.
Fowler's "Analysis Patterns" and "Refactoring", all the PLoP books,
Schmidt's work (http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/patterns-ace.html),
etc, etc...


Alex


From drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com  Fri Oct  1 18:49:28 2004
From: drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com (drs)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:49:28 GMT
Subject: Close a socket externally
Message-ID: <Y9l7d.262597$bp1.228320@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

Hi,

I have a program which opens a socket server in a thread.  I need for the
server to listen on the socket for a certain amount of time (say, ten
seconds or so) and then close it, and am wondering if there is a good way to
close the socket other than sending it a message from another thread to
close itself.  That is, I am looking for a way to forcably kill a socket
from a second thread, not to send it a message to kill itself.

Thanks,

-drs




From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct 29 08:26:09 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:26:09 +0100
Subject: saving local dir
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B77@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Bengt dePaulis]
| I just started on python.
| 
| I have c:\python23\examples\py
| and want to include that in my sys.path
| 
| How to do it permanently?
| 
| /Bengt
| Helsinki

You want to look at the PYTHONPATH environment variable

(If you know how to set this, skip the next bit)

You'll need to go to your computer's properties, select
[Advanced] (!) and then [Environment Variables], select
[New] and type in a name of PYTHONPATH and a value of
c:\python23\examples\py. [OK] all the way back out to 
reality.

(end of explanation)

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
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From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 29 17:50:00 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:50:00 -0700
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <WqOdnTc2YvdqPh_cRVn-2Q@rogers.com>
References: <2ue65gF28i9f7U1@uni-berlin.de> <WqOdnTc2YvdqPh_cRVn-2Q@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20041029144040.0BF1.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote:
> 
> "Joachim Bowman" <usenet.0.lho at spamgourmet.com> wrote in message 
> news:2ue65gF28i9f7U1 at uni-berlin.de...
> > Hi,
> >
> > Dan Perl wrote:
> >> "Michael Foord" <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message 
> >> news:6f402501.0410271123.5a7e68d9 at posting.google.com...
> >>>A lot of people use python as part of their job and are active
> >>>participants in teh python community. A lot of what I write are
> >>>library modules to do a particular job. Using the GPL means someone is
> >>>unable to use your work in a business setting. i don't expect other
> >>>people to sell products containing my work - but neither do I want to
> >>>prevent them from being able to use it.
> >>
> >> Fair enough.  LGPL, X, or BSD should allow you to do that.
> >
> > So does the GNU GPL.  Freedom/Open Source and commercial use are two 
> > orthogonal concepts.  The two don't interfere in any way.
> 
> I beg to differ.  Let's take a possible scenario.  Let's say that my company 
> has a complex software product that sells for $1M a piece.  And let's also 
> say that I need some encryption for the product.  I find an encryption 
> library that is free and is GPL licensed.  What happens if I use it? 
> Correct me if I'm wrong in any part (and I genuinely admit that I may be 
> wrong).  I have to release my entire product under a GPL license and I have 
> to publish the entire code (I assume that the use of the encryption library 
> is not isolated to only one part of the product).  Would my company want to 
> do something like that?  I don't think so.  Sure, we are still entitled to 
> try to sell the product but who would pay $1M when with a little effort they 
> can put the entire product together from the code and any support that we 
> could sell is never going to be worth the money we are asking for?

If other posters on this topic are correct; you don't need to lose your
application in order to use that GPL library, you merely need to write a
wrapper for that library, which is then released under the GPL.  Since
you are the original author, you can do whatever you want with the
wrapper; including using it in a commercial setting where you don't
release your application.

The wrapper is the derivative work, which is licensed under the GPL. 
But being the original author, you can do whatever you want with the
wrapper, including using it from a non-GPL'd piece of software, without
needing to tell anyone about it.

If anyone asks about the fact that your main software is not GPL'd,
point them to the wrapper software, and as long as your wrapper is
nontrivial, I don't believe it is a big deal.

This is just a restatement of perhaps a half-dozen other people that
have posted in the last week or so on this same topic.  If they are
wrong on this topic, then so am I.


> Red Hat can make money from selling their Linux distribution, but apart from 
> companies that have deeper pockets and for whom getting the support and 
> warranties that Red Hat offers are worth a relatively small fee, how many 
> small consumers buy the commercial distribution when they can just download 
> the same thing for free?  No wonder that Red Hat also sells things like mugs 
> and T-shirts.

Red Hat doesn't make money on selling their Linux distribution, they
make money on the /support contracts/ for large companies who need
guaranteed support.


 - Josiah



From bob at passcal.nmt.edu  Fri Oct 22 12:23:43 2004
From: bob at passcal.nmt.edu (Bob Greschke)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:23:43 -0600
Subject: The type of a tkinter StringVars and IntVars?
References: <417838e7_4@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.5287.1098400041.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417931e5_4@127.0.0.1>

Oooo.  You are very smart (and have saved the project :).

Right there on pg 20 of Essential Reference. Tsk tsk tsk on me.

Thanks!!

Bob

"Steven Bethard" <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.5287.1098400041.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Bob Greschke <bob <at> passcal.nmt.edu> writes:
>
>> How would I do the same thing if
>>
>> a = IntVar()
>> a.set(6)
>>
>> and then do
>>
>> if type(a) == IntVar:
>>     Root.bell()
>
> I don't do much GUI programming, but I believe you're looking for
> the 'isinstance' function:
>
>>>> class IntVar(object):
> ...     pass
> ...
>>>> a = IntVar()
>>>> isinstance(a, IntVar)
> True
>
>
> Steve
> 




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  6 19:09:12 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 19:09:12 -0400
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
In-Reply-To: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <E__8d.415$R43.137@fed1read01>

Erik Johnson <ej <at> wellkeeper wrote:

>     I am rather new to Python and still learning the finer points. I wanted
> to have a class which has a member dictionary of other class instances, a
> constructor that would initiate that dict with an empty dict if you didn't
> provide one, and a member function to stick more other classes into that
> dictionary.
> 
> I wrote something akin to this:
> 
> #! /usr/bin/python
> 
> #=======================================================================
> class Bar:
> 
>     def __init__(self, foo_d={}):
>         self.foo_d = foo_d
> 
>     def add_foo(self, foo):
>         self.foo_d[foo.key] = foo
> #=======================================================================
> 
[...]
> 
> 
>     A single, shared dictionary is definitely not what I wanted or expected
> and didn't see why it was happening.  So... I struggled with that for a
> while and eventually reasoned that the {} in the argument list to my
> constructor is executed at the time of class definition, and is essentially
> a reference to an instantiated dictionary object and therefor there is a
> little empty dictionary sitting in memory somewhere prior to me ever
> instantiating a Bar object. New Bar objects constructed without providing
> their own foo_d end up sharing that one.  I think this makes sense enough,
> now  (if I'm missing something, speak up).
> 
>     So, one work-around is to do this:
> 
> #=======================================================================
> class Bar:
> 
>     def __init__(self, foo_d=None)
>         if foo_d:
>             self.foo_d = foo_d
>         else:
>             self.foo_d = {}
> #=======================================================================
> 

[...]
> 
>     So... Yes? Is there a better way to do this sort of thing, or is that
> perfectly reasonable code?
> 
>     Thanks for taking the time to read my post! :)
> 
> -ej
> 
> 
Well you have managed to come up with the standard paradigm (and 
successfully diagnose one of the most common beginner's conundrums along 
the way) by the exercise of pure thought. I don't think there's much to 
add, except possibly "congratulations"!

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From and-google at doxdesk.com  Wed Oct 13 11:05:56 2004
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 08:05:56 -0700
Subject: Secure Python code - volunteers for code review?
References: <20041012205021.091B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<1097645158.10090.3.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<mailman.4816.1097654109.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0410130705.542c6cce@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> Either way, unencoded/unprepared data may bork you.

Indeed, but I don't see any of that in a quick flick through Andrew's
code. All the literal values are getting passed through the standard
DBAPI substitution layer, so should be completely safe.

The only thing I noticed just briefly looking at it was the call to
os.popen with command '"antiword " + fn'. Creating system commands by
simple string concatenation is v. dodgy.

It turns out in this case that 'fn' is coming directly from
tempfile.mkstemp so there probably isn't going to be a security issue
in practice, but depending on the path of the temp directory and what
characters are escapes I guess this could fail on some platforms, or
something. In any case it makes me feel uneasy. :-)

Of course, Andrew will also have to be sure that there are no buffer
overflows or other issues in the 'antiword' program that could allow a
maliciously-crafted .doc file to execute arbitrary code.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/


From pierren at mac.com  Tue Oct 26 04:30:25 2004
From: pierren at mac.com (Pierre N)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:30:25 +0200
Subject: newbie: pygtk (win, slack10)
In-Reply-To: <20041025212503.94278.qmail@web54001.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041025212503.94278.qmail@web54001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <48F04B6E-2729-11D9-B6BB-000A95BF49CA@mac.com>

Open http://www.google.com
Type in the text box: pygtk tips
Look at the 4,710 results.

Should be enough for a while :-))
If I could speak Brazilian as well as you speak English, I would be 
sooo happy...

--
Pierre


Le 25 oct. 04, ? 23:25, Fabio a ?crit :

> hello all,
>
> I am sorry, but I tried to find some tips about pygtk
> running with windows and linux, but I didnt found it,
> neither in archives.
>
> Does anybody could send me some links? Tutorials? I am
> sorry, but the links I found wasnt cool enough hehe..
>
> sorry my bad english
>
> regards.



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 11:03:22 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 08:03:22 -0700
Subject: Internet Explorer Bars From Python
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410120703.12e5b8e7@posting.google.com>

I've been looking at a couple of Internet Explorer plugins. E.g.
http://www.cheztabor.com/SourceTree/index.htm *or*
http://www.blunck.info/iehttpheaders_workings.html  . I wondered if
anyone had done anything like this using COM and Mark Hammonds
extensions ?

Anyone got any example code ?


Regards,


Fuzzyman

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid  Fri Oct  8 08:50:14 2004
From: foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid (Thomas Rast)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:50:14 +0200
Subject: Ctypes error
References: <ck3qg3$cs6$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it> <1xga4bjm.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <87wty11iih.fsf@thomas.local>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> The deeper issue is that the unicode stuff in ctypes is only compiled in
> when the Python header files define the HAVE_USABLE_WCHAR_T symbol.  Of
> the systems I build and test on, only Windows defines this.

Since nobody else replied, I'll have to speak up here :-)

I'm running a stock Debian 'testing' Linux, which currently means 

libc6          2.3.2.ds1-16
gcc            3.3.4-2
python         2.3.4-4

/usr/include/python2.3/pyconfig.h *does* define HAVE_USABLE_WCHAR_T.

- Thomas

-- 
If you want to reply by mail, substitute my first and last name for
'foo' and 'bar', respectively, and remove '.invalid'.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 17:42:30 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:42:30 +0200
Subject: moving files across devices
References: <mailman.5636.1098999491.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gme4i9.g6ojvi4q92ckN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Matt Price <matt.price at utoronto.ca> wrote:

> Hi folks,
> 
> I'm trying to move files across devices on my linux box.  Here's what
> I had:  
>     os.rename(sFileName, dir + newName) 
   ...
> ok, so that doesn't work.  is there another method?

shutil.move


Alex


From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct  4 23:15:52 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:15:52 -0400
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <4161a7e3$0$80627$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>	<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4161a7e3$0$80627$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
Message-ID: <416211E8.8040201@fastmail.fm>

Sounds like classes should be all I need, thanks.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Oct 14 07:55:34 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:55:34 +0200
Subject: Psycopg and queries with UTF-8 data
References: <ckliod$8ot$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl>
	<cklm2q$gc0$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416E61D0.5050503@magproductions.nl>
Message-ID: <cklpfk$tat$03$2@news.t-online.com>

> Ah, I see now. I _thought_ it was odd that unicode('string') resulted in
> a unicode object and 'string'.encode('utf-8') did not. I understand now
> that 'unicode' is data that is actual unicode data, while 'utf-8'
> _encoded_ data is really a string, but with special characters rewritten
> to specify utf-8 escape sequences instead of the actual unicode bytes.

Exactly.

> 
> Thanks for clearing out my confusion.

Your welcome.
 
> while confused():
> print "unicode is not utf-8!!!"

Lets hope confused() is True only for a short time, otherwise you'll end up
with pretty much output...

>> Do encode the unicode object in utf-8, and pass that to the psycopg. If
>> you set client_encoding to latin1, you have to encode unicod to that.
> 
> I suppose I won't notice much of that until I read from the DB (which is
> done in PHP mostly), as the data inserted is already an ascii string by
> itself (with escaped utf-8 characters, though). I'll worry about that
> later ;)

Well, AFAIK php doesn't care about unicode - all it knows are strings as
byte sequences, plain old C-style. So if you read from it, things should
work if you set your HTTP header variables correct _and_ other parts of you
html-page aren't made in a different encoding - so make sure typing them in
your editor of choice will yield utf-8 data beeing saved.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From bartekgorny at interia.pl  Tue Oct 19 13:28:23 2004
From: bartekgorny at interia.pl (Taki Jeden)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:28:23 +0200
Subject: [twisted+wxPython] widgets do not work?
References: <ckh5u8$rod$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<mailman.4823.1097663769.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl3ius$ski$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Cliff Wells wrote:

> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 19:58 +0200, Taki Jeden wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> Anybody used wxPython with twisted?
>> 
>> I started putting together a Twisted-based app with wx GUI, and the
>> widgets just don't work - some controls do not show up etc. - at least on
>> my system.

> The method I use to mix the two is to poll Twisted during wxPython's
> idle event:
> 

Works like a charm! Thanks a lot, Cliff.

Bartek

-- 
#!/usr/bin/env python
print 'sygnatura'


From scarlson at omnimn.com  Fri Oct  8 16:20:51 2004
From: scarlson at omnimn.com (Scott Carlson)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 13:20:51 -0700
Subject: program termination and return value
Message-ID: <df19e346.0410081220.1776fc9e@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Python novice.  (But getting better.)

How do I terminate/quit my program during execution if I reach a point
where I desire to terminate the program?

How do I pass back an integer indicating (as example) an error number?

If I then do this, what do I put on the last line of my program to
return (for example) a zero, indicating success?

Thanks,
Scott


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 19:26:54 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:26:54 -0400
Subject: binary numbers
In-Reply-To: <41632549$0$230$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <cjv58g$q5i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<E62dnZKZl9wKvP7cRVn-gw@comcast.com>
	<41632549$0$230$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <cjvak0$4e3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Max M wrote:
> Larry Bates wrote:
> 
>> Brad Tilley wrote:
>>
>>> How can I specify that a number be represented in binary format when 
>>> passing it to a function? I'm working with the Windows registry and 
>>> REG_BINARY values expect numbers in binary form...
>>>
>>> This would be nice:
>>>
>>> import binary
>>> x = binary(5)
> 
> 
> 
> I am not quite shure that I understand you correctly. But I think so.
> 
> You are probaly loking for the struct module. It handles strings as 
> lumps of binary data. So if you want to store something as "binary" you 
> convert it to a string containing binary data, and pass that string to 
> the registry.
> 
> It's not that hard. A function doing what you describe above could be 
> written a bit like:
> 
> # converts int to "binary short"
> from struct import pack
> x = pack('h', 5)
> 
> So technically x is now a string, but it contains the binary 
> representation of bytes that is a "short" on your system. I am not shure 
> if the registry expects a short though.
> 
> 
> more info in the docs at:
> 
> 4.3 struct -- Interpret strings as packed binary data
> 
> 
> 

I Forgot that I'm asking a bunch of CS geeks a 
question about "binary"... I mean "bianry" as in 
the base 2 representation of numbers... One is one 
is one, but one can be represented in different 
bases and still be one... get it?

Dec	Bin
1		1
2		10
3		11
4		100
5		101
6		110
...
...
...

How do I pass the binary representation of a 
number to a function???


From me at privacy.net  Mon Oct 18 13:18:45 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Tobias Pfeiffer)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 17:18:45 GMT
Subject: md5 and large files
References: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<4172a5f6$0$28202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4172AA52.9030606@vt.edu> <sgjb42-phv.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<2thtm1F1u2mshU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<UqGdncN5T6jxX-7cRVn-2A@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <2tic7kF1vnt1fU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

On 18 Okt 2004, Peter L Hansen wrote:
> Tobias Pfeiffer wrote:
>> This is not true. I'd say there are quite a lot of 2 GB files that 
>> produce the same md5 hash...
> 
> Without deliberately contriving an example using the recently
> discovered technique, can you offer even a single example? ;-)

Of course I can't... *grin* -- But actually, (correct me if I'm wrong) an 
MD5 sum is 128 bits long, that are 2^128 different possibilities. Now a 2 
GB file has 8*2*1024^3 bits, that are 2^17179869184 different 
possibilities for a 2 GB file. Am I wright thinking that the number of 
files with an identical md5 sum is now 2^17179869184 / 2^128 = 
2^17179869056?

> (If you were trying to point out that 100.00000000000% or whatever
> is not possible with MD5, okay, but note that Roger didn't specify
> the precision.  100% is close enough to what you'd get with MD5.)

And am I also right thinking that the possibility of getting the same md5 
for two files is then 2^-128? OK, I think I have to admit that this 
chance is small enough... *grin*

> Simple string comparisons with *what*?  Are you assuming that there
> is a known-good copy of the file sitting right next to it, that he
> can compare against?

That was why I said he has to know the goal of his project. I think if he 
wants to compare the first 4K of the files, he also has to have a known-
good copy.

Bye
Tobias

-- 
please send any mail to botedesschattens(at)web(dot)de


From vjshield-widgets at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 14 03:03:20 2004
From: vjshield-widgets at yahoo.com (vjshield-widgets at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:03:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Quixote vs mod_python
Message-ID: <20041014070320.29448.qmail@web41301.mail.yahoo.com>

I tried most of the options you mentioned and decided
to go with mpservlets. It has worked out very well so
far :

http://home.comcast.net/~d.popowich/mpservlets/

which sits on top of mod_python. 

Give the live tutorial a go:

http://lnx1.blue-fox.com/~dpopowich/mpstutorial/


From arun.sivakumaran at gmail.com  Sun Oct 31 08:51:02 2004
From: arun.sivakumaran at gmail.com (Arun)
Date: 31 Oct 2004 05:51:02 -0800
Subject: running a python script in the background
References: <371349cd.0410291923.a0bc96b@posting.google.com>
	<4183abf9$0$28744$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<371349cd.0410301525.4d6f5a1f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <371349cd.0410310551.2d87b790@posting.google.com>

The reason I wasn't able to run the script in the background was
because my simulator was outputting debug messages in the foreground.
The following seemed to do the trick:

script.py
--------------------------------

Create the config files

Loop through the list of config files:
     system("simulator configfile >> & logfile");

---------------------------------
>>script.py >> & logfile &


Thanks!
Aun


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Oct 24 20:23:48 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:23:48 -0400
Subject: Mindboggling Scope Issue
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5397.1098659777.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <200410241346.12230.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>	<clha6h$s7d$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.5397.1098659777.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mNXed.17178$SW3.3485@fed1read01>

James Stroud wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> Please bare with me as I have seldom asked for help with my code, so I may do 
> things a little wrong at times. If I ask in the wrong way, please by friendly 
> like Tarry Reedy and suggest how I may better ask my questions.
> 
> So I will retry this one from the top, and with Tarry's suggestions 
> incorporated. 
> 
That's great!

> First I'll begin with a simple example that works from the python CLI:
> 
> % python
> Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40)
> [GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>def outer():
> 
> ...   def inner():
> ...     print bob
> ...   bob = "wuzzup?"
> ...   inner()
> ...
> 
>>>>outer()
> 
> wuzzup?
> 
> This is an experiment to prove that a function can "de-reference" a name even 
> if the function is defined in a position of the code that preceeds said 
> name's assignment in the enclosing scope. (Hopefully my vocabulary makes 
> sense here--I am not a computer scientist). Please look at the code to see 
> what I mean. Here, we are talking about the name "bob".
> 
Yes, variable references in the function definition are only 
de-referenced when the function is executed. As long as bob has a value 
when inner() is called everything is OK.

Having said that, using global variables (or any variable in an outer 
scope) intoduces couplings in your code which make it much less easy to 
maintain. It's sometimes unavoidable, but the ideal is to have all 
inputs as function parameters and all results returned byt he function.

> Second I present below two alternatives (designated "method1" and "method2" in 
> the comments of the listings below) to a method that resides in a program I 
> am writing. I run the program with the same python executable with which I 
> generated the above example. These method listings are long but differ only 
> where I have indicated in the comments. I am including them in their entirety 
> so that I don't leave something critical out that I, as a relative novice, am 
> missing.
> 
> With "method1" I get no error and the "ok()" method works as I expect and in 
> accord with the example above. With "method2" I call "ok()", and when it 
> prints to stdout I get the following error (after compile, when the program 
> is being run):
> 
> Exception in Tkinter callback
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call__
>     return self.func(*args)
>   File "./passerby", line 1378, in ok
>     print result
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'result' referenced before assignment
> 
Excellent. Because the PassWindow object is (presumably) defined in the 
top-level scope of the module it can be referenced from inside the 
nested function definitions as well as the outer function definitions. 
Because what's being referenced is an attribute of a globally-available 
object, everything works.

The problem arises with the "result" version because the inner functions 
contain assignments to the "result" variable. The compiler therefore 
assumes that they are local.

> So my question is, what is special about what I am doing here? Why does it not 
> work like the first example I gave with the name bob? Have I found a bug in 
> python? I should note that "passWindow" is not defined anywhere else but this 
> method. Also, I should note that "method1" represents a 
> workaround/alternative, so my program runs just fine. I just want to know 
> what is going on here to imporve my own understanding. I think if anyone can 
> give me a satisfactory answer on this one, we should all call them a "real 
> expert".
> 
> Here are the listings I referred to above:
> 
> -----
> 
>     # method1 : works!
>     def ask_for_password(self, message):
>       def cancel():
>         passWindow.destroy()
>       def ok():
>         # different : WORKS FINE!
>         print passWindow.result
>         pw = passEntry.get()
>         if len(pw):
>           # different
>           passWindow.result = pw
>         passWindow.destroy()
>       message = "\n" + message + "\n"
>       passWindow = Toplevel(self.get_mainWindow())
>       # different : notice that passWindow is defined for the
>       #                 first time in this whole program in the line above
>       #                 It is not part of a larger scope!
>       passWindow.result = None
>       passWindow.title("passerby - Password Entry")
>       self.get_mainWindow().deiconify()
>       passWindow.transient(self.get_mainWindow())
>       passWindow.geometry("400x180+50+50")
>       passWindow.resizable(0,0)
>       passLabel = Label(passWindow, text=message)
>       passEntry = Entry(passWindow)
>       passEntry.configure(width=48)
>       passEntry.config(show="*")
>       passEntry.bind("<Return>",ok)
>       cancelButton = Button(passWindow, text="Cancel", command=cancel)
>       okButton = Button(passWindow, text="OK", command=ok)
>       passLabel.pack()
>       passEntry.pack()
>       cancelButton.pack()
>       okButton.pack()
>       passEntry.focus_set()
>       passWindow.grab_set()
>       self.get_tk().wait_window(passWindow)
>       # different
>       return passWindow.result
> 
> -----
> 
>     # method2 : doesn't work!
>     def ask_for_password(self, message):
>       def cancel():
>         passWindow.destroy()
>       def ok():
>         # different : GETS ERROR!
>         print result
>         pw = passEntry.get()
>         if len(pw):
>           passWindow.result = pw
>         passWindow.destroy()
>       message = "\n" + message + "\n"
>       passWindow = Toplevel(self.get_mainWindow())
>       # different : notice that passWindow is defined for the
>       #                 first time in this whole program in the line above
>       #                 It is not part of a larger scope!
>       result = None
>       passWindow.title("passerby - Password Entry")
>       self.get_mainWindow().deiconify()
>       passWindow.transient(self.get_mainWindow())
>       passWindow.geometry("400x180+50+50")
>       passWindow.resizable(0,0)
>       passLabel = Label(passWindow, text=message)
>       passEntry = Entry(passWindow)
>       passEntry.configure(width=48)
>       passEntry.config(show="*")
>       passEntry.bind("<Return>",ok)
>       cancelButton = Button(passWindow, text="Cancel", command=cancel)
>       okButton = Button(passWindow, text="OK", command=ok)
>       passLabel.pack()
>       passEntry.pack()
>       cancelButton.pack()
>       okButton.pack()
>       passEntry.focus_set()
>       passWindow.grab_set()
>       self.get_tk().wait_window(passWindow)
>       # different
>       return result
> 
> 
> 
The structure of your code could perhaps be better-ordered. I don't know 
whether you've seen much other Tkinter code, but there are fairly 
well-defined guidelines for how to proceed, and they certainly helped me.

You might want to take a look at some of the following links to help you 
to improve your coding skills:

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
(by Fredrik Lundh, a well-known Python programmer who has contributed 
extensively to the Tkinter implementation).

http://www.manning.com/catalog/view.php?book=grayson&item=source
(Code samples from the book "Python and Tkinter Programming")

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Oct 12 09:48:30 2004
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 06:48:30 -0700
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
	<du7hdp0qv7s.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <5339b60d.0410120548.31dfde29@posting.google.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message news:<du7hdp0qv7s.fsf at lehtori.cc.tut.fi>...
> >>>>> "john" == John  <johng2001 at rediffmail.com> writes:
> 
>     john> Is there an equivalent of COM on Linux that I can get
>     john> through Python.
> 
> Mono appears to be the future of COM equivalent technologies on
> Linux. Python support just isn't stable/mature there yet.

It depends what everyone means by "COM equivalent". If you mean it as
some kind of distributed object technology, then there are a lot of
CORBA-related solutions out there: ORBit (PyORBit vs. ORBit-python),
Fnorb, omniORB (omniORBpy), and so on. In addition, you have a
selection of unstandardised technologies to choose from, too.

> There is also xpcom.

As well as UNO (PyUNO), but that is arguably in the realm of the other
principal interpretation of "COM equivalent": the application
automation technology. On that front, there's ORBit and Bonobo for
GNOME-based applications (I believe) and DCOP for KDE-based
applications. Eventually, there'll be standardisation of such
technologies, and I imagine that D-BUS fits in somewhere here.

>     john> My need is to have some sort of language independent
>     john> component framework. I can think of CORBA but I have to have
>     john> a server running. I
> 
> How critical is this criterion? I would definitely go with CORBA.

Yes. Years ago I had a lot of fun with ILU, but I imagine that any of
the more mature/supported Python-compatible ORBs would be suitable.
Certainly, omniORB (http://omniorb.sourceforge.net/) would be my first
consideration.

Meanwhile, beware of suggestions that you use SOAP or XML-RPC! If
remote method calling is what interests you, such technologies are not
*directly* applicable (unless, in the case of SOAP, XML documents are
the primary representation of data in your system).

Paul


From lbates at syscononline.com  Tue Oct  5 18:35:07 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:35:07 -0500
Subject: binary numbers
In-Reply-To: <cjv58g$q5i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cjv58g$q5i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <E62dnZKZl9wKvP7cRVn-gw@comcast.com>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> How can I specify that a number be represented in binary format when 
> passing it to a function? I'm working with the Windows registry and 
> REG_BINARY values expect numbers in binary form...
> 
> This would be nice:
> 
> import binary
> x = binary(5)
> 
> Any tips???
> 
> Thanks,
> Brad

Integers are stored in memory as binary.

x=5

stores 5 in x in binary form.

Larry Bates


From jarausch at skynet.be  Sun Oct 17 06:17:39 2004
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:17:39 +0200
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02>
Message-ID: <417246c8$0$19560$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

Chris S. wrote:
> I have a number of strings, containing wildcards (e.g. 'abc#e#' where # 
> is anything), which I want to match with a test string (e.g 'abcdef'). 
> What would be the best way for me to store my strings so lookup is as 
> fast as possible?

A  very flexible and fast tool is mxTextTools
http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxTextTools.html
see also
http://simpleparse.sourceforge.net
which contains a more recent (non recursive) version of the pattern 
matching machine
It's faster then regexp (at least sometimes) but much more flexible
Each pattern is stored as (high level) "assembler" for a pattern 
matching machine written in C. A Pattern is just a Python tuple
which can be stored (pickled)

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Fri Oct 22 12:11:32 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:11:32 -0400
Subject: symbolic mathematics in python
Message-ID: <clbbfk$mg5$1@sea.gmane.org>

"""All computer languages must evolve to the point that they implement
symbolic mathematics"""

So, has anyone worked on this in python?



From vincent at visualtrans.de  Wed Oct 27 13:03:42 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:03:42 +0200
Subject: look further down sys.path for extension module
In-Reply-To: <clod7k$m55$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
References: <clod7k$m55$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <clokdd$3ak$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Vincent Wehren wrote:

[...]
> the Python interpreter needs to be inserted into sys.path at index. 

This should say "[...] into sys.path at index 0.

--
Vincent Wehren




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Oct 16 22:08:47 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:08:47 -0500
Subject: Message from exception raised in generator disappears
In-Reply-To: <200410162322.i9GNMvhM043628@chilled.skew.org>
References: <200410162322.i9GNMvhM043628@chilled.skew.org>
Message-ID: <20041017020846.GC2588@unpythonic.net>

>>> def gx():
...     yield 1
...     raise RuntimeError
... 
>>> list(gx())
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in gx
RuntimeError

Exceptions in generators work for me.  Maybe there's another problem
with your code.

Jeff
PS Here's my stab at writing your function, which seems like a useful
one.

By explicitly converting s to an iterator before the loop, I can also
call "next" on it to consume an additional item on this pass through the
loop.  The use of unicode literals (instead of decimal values) for
comparison may give a slight speed boost, because it avoids an ord()
call on each trip through the loop.  I doubt you can measure the speed
difference of 'c1 <= x < c2' and 'c1 <= x and x < c2' but I think it
reads better.  The try/except StopIteration part is unfortunate, but I
don't see how to avoid it.  Whether it beats having a separate
'surrogate' variable and more complicated flow control I'm not sure.
(the exception will be seen 0 times in the try: block in a "correct"
string, and only once in a "proper" string, so it can't be that bad...)

def chars(s):
    s = iter(s)
    for i in s:
        if u'\ud800' <= i < u'\udc00':
            try:
                j = s.next()
            except StopIteration:
                raise ValueError("Bad pair: string ends after %r" % i)
            if u'\udc00' <= j < u'\ue000':
                yield i + j
            else:
                raise ValueError("Bad pair: %r (no second half)" % (i+j))
        elif u'\udc00' <= i < u'\ude00':
                raise ValueError("Bad pair: %r (no first half)" % i)
        else:
            yield i
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From da_mueller at gmx.net  Thu Oct 21 07:31:23 2004
From: da_mueller at gmx.net (Daniel Mueller)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:31:23 +0200
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
In-Reply-To: <2tpkd4F21cs2oU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch> <2tpkd4F21cs2oU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cl86oo$2sf6$1@news.imp.ch>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> If you're only interested in the content if the file has actually
> changed - thats a totally different animal,

Good to hear! i only need the changes! do you have code examples?

> and is under unix doable using
> stat-calls (somewhere in the os module). I'm not sure how much that extends
> to windows, but I'm pretty much confident that there is similar stuff
> available.

im programming under Linux



-- 
Please use my GnuPG (PGP) Public-Key for secure message exchange.
(http://157.161.155.222/damueller-pubkey.txt)


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Oct  6 13:48:26 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:48:26 GMT
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <KdW8d.7609$M05.1932@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex Martelli:
 >  As this would cause no
> backwards incompatibility, it could even be introduced in Python 2.5,

   or!=0

is currently valid.  Changing the tokenizer to allow
trailing ? and ! would turn this into an assignment to
"or!".  A quick grep finds these two places in the standard
lib that would become a syntax error

robotparser.py:    if a!=b:


threading.py:  self._note("%s.notify(): notifying %d waiter%s", self, n,
threading.py:              n!=1 and "s" or "")

Had we added C's "?:" ternary operator we likely would have
had similar small problems there.  Good thing we didn't do that.  :)

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From nospam at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 09:53:22 2004
From: nospam at hotmail.com (Dfenestr8)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:53:22 +0100
Subject: After a file browsing script
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.07.13.53.22.79999@hotmail.com>

Hi. I've written a graphical interface, that uses timidity, and plays and
displays abc files. No need to explain what abc files are here, but if u'r
curious here it is http://staffweb.cms.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/ .

Basically, I want a script that will open a nice neat little graphical
file browser, that'll enable me to browse my hard drive when I press the
"Open" button on the interface.

I suppose I want to be able to feed it a location on HD as an argument,
and have it return a file location when I press "Select". That type of
thing.

Anybody know of such a script? I'm sure something like that must be out
there.

I've been trying to search Google with "Python" + "file browser" but not
get much in the way of helpful results.


From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Sun Oct 17 01:50:49 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 05:50:49 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <4171edbf.9519908@news.oz.net>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02> <4171edbf.9519908@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <ZKncd.1779$Ug4.1245@trndny01>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:11:37 GMT, "Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I have a number of strings, containing wildcards (e.g. 'abc#e#' where # 
>>is anything), which I want to match with a test string (e.g 'abcdef'). 
>>What would be the best way for me to store my strings so lookup is as 
>>fast as possible?
> 
> 
> Insufficient info. But 'fast as possible' suggests putting your strings in
> a flex grammar and generating a parser in c. See
>     http://www.gnu.org/software/flex/
> Defining a grammar is a good exercise in precise definition of the problem anyway ;-)
> 
> If you want to do it in python, you still need to be more precise...
> 
> - is # a single character? any number of characters?
> - if your test string were 'abcdefabcdef' would you want 'abc#e#' to match the whole thing?
>   or match abcdef twice?
> - if one wild card string matches, does that "use up" the test string so other wild card strings
>   mustn't match? If so, what has priority? Longest? shortest? Other criterion? 
> - etc etc

Sorry for the ambiguity. My case is actually pretty simple. '#' 
represents any single character, so it's essentially the same as re's 
'.'. The match must be exact, so the string and pattern must be of equal 
lengths. Each wildcard is independent of other wildcards. For example, 
suppose we restricted the possible characters to 1 and 0, then the 
pattern '##' would only match '00', '01', '10', and '11'. This pattern 
would not match '0', '111', etc. I feel that a trie would work well, but 
I'm concerned that for large patterns, the overhead in the Python 
implementation would be too inefficient.


From xeranic at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 07:56:30 2004
From: xeranic at yahoo.com (Xin Wang)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 04:56:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: About lambda.
Message-ID: <20041022115630.57507.qmail@web90004.mail.scd.yahoo.com>

Some c++ guru said c++ is hard to learn but easy to
use. Is python easy for both aspect? I found lot's of
confused in coding.

#code
from Tkinter import *

def on_click(m):
    print m
def lamb_on_click(m):
    return lambda : on_click(m)
root = Tk()
btns = ['0', '1', '2', '3']
for n in btns:
    b = Button(root, text=n, command=lamb_on_click(n))
#Ok!
    b.pack()
root.mainloop()
#

Or, 

#code
...
    b = Button(root, text=n, command=lambda x=n:
click(x)) #Ok!
...
#

The code above works well too, but follow is NOT! WHY?

#code
...
    b = Button(root, text=n, command=lambda :
on_click(n))
...
#

Whichever button be clicked, this only print '3'. 

Keyword 'lambda' is just like a macro in c or templete
in c++ or not?



		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 21 12:54:50 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:54:50 +0200
Subject: String changing on the fly
References: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com>
	<1glzcvj.5uv1lg12ypgy2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aef9ef3d.0410202338.6c091ff2@posting.google.com>
	<1gm04ht.e3wqjt19zaabaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aef9ef3d.0410210753.67f0a70@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gm0qld.pyatme18q00uwN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Eli Daniel <elie at flashmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> Anyway when migerating from TCL, it's easy to teach somone to add at
> the end of the function call an additional parameter, "vars()" that
> telling him to sabtitue every parameter with '+ str(thevar)'. The
> reason is not that the later is harder to understand or write, it is
> simply less readable especialy when you write a large text with some
> variables as a parameter.

Sure, I agree.  string.Template in 2.4 chose $ for interpolation in part
exactly because it's popular in several other languages (perl, tcl,
bash).  Besides, +'ing a bunch of str(...) wouldn't be idiomatical
Python anyway; before string.Template, we tended to use more often the
C-derived concept of formatting --

'hello Mr %s' % surname

rather than

'hello Mr %(surname)s' % vars()


...

Alex


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Mon Oct 25 23:13:46 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:13:46 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5475.1098758629.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5475.1098758629.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clkfda$77l$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Tim Churches wrote:
> From: python-list-bounces+tchur=optushome.com.au at python.org 
> 
>>[mailto:python-list-bounces+tchur=optushome.com.au at python.org]
>> On Behalf Of Robert Kern
>>Sent: Tuesday, 26 October 2004 11:34 AM
>>To: python-list at python.org
>>Subject: Re: GPL and Python modules.
>>
>>
>>Tim Churches wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 11:12, Robert Kern wrote:
>>
>>>>Whether just using system calls is simply "normal use" for a GPLd OS
>>>>kernel or this is simply a special exception to the GPL for 
>>
>>Linux only 
>>
>>>>is something that a court will have to decide. But such a 
>>
>>suit would 
>>
>>>>have to be about some other GPL kernel, not Linux.
>>>
>>>
>>>Looks like it is a special exception for the Linux kernel 
>>
>>(or whatever 
>>
>>>other Linux code is distributed with this COPYING file. 
>>
>>Doesn't apply 
>>
>>>to other GPLed code.
>>
>>Well, not necessarily. It certainly isn't phrased as one. It 
>>is at least 
>>a statement of someone's (Linus's?) belief that standard applications 
>>that only use system calls and running on Linux are not 
>>derivative works 
>>with respect to Linux.
> 
> 
> Yes, so it is a specific exemption to the GPL granted by the copyright
> holder(s) of the Linux kernel code. The GPL allows the copyright holder to
> grant exemptions to the GPL privisions as they see fit - but no-one else.

It's still phrased as Linus's interpretation of what constitutes a 
derivative work and what constitutes normal use of the GPLed kernel. 
He's specifically saying that userland applications are not derivative 
works not "even though they are derivative works, they are excepted from 
the requirements of this license."

>>Are Windows programs actual derivative 
>>works of 
>>the Windows kernel? Does the Windows EULA make a statement about the 
>>derivative status of applications?
> 
> 
> No, and no. An important point of difference between the world views held
> by, say, Steve Ballmer and, say, Richard Stallman.

The world views of Ballmer and Stallman are irrelevant to whether 
something is a derivative or not. They may be relevant to whether one 
may get sued or not, but that's a different issue.

In any case, Stallman does not appear to believe that userland 
applications are automatically derivative works of the kernel:

http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLInProprietarySystem

"""If the two programs remain well separated, like the compiler and the 
kernel, or like an editor and a shell, then you can treat them as two 
separate programs--but you have to do it properly."""

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From nobody at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  4 21:30:27 2004
From: nobody at hotmail.com (Maboroshi)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:30:27 -0700
Subject: simple Tkinter Question
Message-ID: <10m3uc176vc3697@corp.supernews.com>

Hi I was curious how I can pass arguments through a Tkinter Entry widget

say I have an Entry widget and a Button widget I enter text into the 
entry and now I want the button to process the text is there a certain 
command I have to use to assign the button to the entry or vise versa

anyhelp appreciated


From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Thu Oct  7 16:42:14 2004
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:42:14 +0200
Subject: Toward Python's future article
References: <mailman.4516.1097169723.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4165aa37$0$44071$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

"daniel narf" <vegeta.z at gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:mailman.4516.1097169723.5135.python-list at python.org...
>
> Hi i am sure most of you have read the article of Andrew Kuchling about
focusing
> more in the standart library than language newFeatures/tweaking and
probably i
> as many others would like to know what the python hackers/developers think
about
> this proposal.Maybe this post is out of place but oh well..
>
In general the article makes a lot of sense to me. I don't have any voting
rights myself, since I have never contributed to the development myself. So
my comments are from the users viewpoint.The strong point of Python is the
combination of a simple, clear, and well-structured language, with a
well-filled toolbox in the standard lib, and of course a high quality
implementation, running out-of-the-box. The standard lib seems to develop
relatively slower than the other elements (language and quality of
implementations). Andrew indicates many examples where the standard lib can
be further improved.

I disagree with one statement: the required involvement of Guido. I do think
that the standard lib also needs a BDFL who takes final decisions based on
good intuition and insight, balancing elegance and pragmatism. A standard
lib without clear concepts becomes a box of Pandorra.

> i am personaly very interested in improving the stdlib which is very messy
> in my opinion right now.
>
No, it is not very messy. Yes, there is legacy of long time evolution. But
compared to real messy systems the Python standard lib is still very well
structured

regards, Gerrit Muller
--
Gaudi systems architecting:
<http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/>

Praktijk voor Psychosociale therapie Lia Charit?
 <www.liacharite.nl>







From ksenia at ksenia.nl  Thu Oct  7 19:54:37 2004
From: ksenia at ksenia.nl (Ksenia Marasanova)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 01:54:37 +0200
Subject: Quixote Question
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410071331.b4fa310@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4482.1097139450.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6f402501.0410071331.b4fa310@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1ACB76-18BC-11D9-BEB0-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>

>  I think vanilla CGI may be
> more suited to some of what I want to do. But then I'm tempted to try
> and use Quixote in case it sparks my imagination - I'm not sure if
> it's the right way of delivering my *content* though.
>
BTW, you can also deliver static pages through Quixote, by using 
StaticDirectory class and passing directory name to the constructor. In 
the latest Quixote version there is even 'index_filenames' option, for 
specifying index file(s) in the directory.

Ksenia.



From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct  8 21:45:33 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 09 Oct 2004 01:45:33 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<%5E9d.7075$UP1.6600@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4167128b$0$538$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4619.1097283789.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416742bd$0$405$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-09, Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante <at> visi.com> writes:
>
>> No, he wants to do an exclusive or of the boolean values of the
>> strings.
>
> I'm guessing the OP has already guessed this solution from the
> variety already provided, but the direct translation of this
> statement would be:
>
> bool(x) ^ bool(y)

:)

It dawned on me later that perhaps the jump from what I wrote
to the code you wrote wasn't as obvious as I thought.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!
                                  at               TAILFINS!!... click...
                               visi.com            


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Thu Oct  7 13:25:39 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:25:39 -0700
Subject: c compiler on Windows
In-Reply-To: <4163c182$0$260$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <4163c182$0$260$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <41657fca$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Max M wrote:
> I have a midi library in Python, that currently only works on midi files.
> 
> http://www.mxm.dk/products/public/pythonmidi
> 
> I want to make it work on realtime midi, with hardware in and out ports.

VC 6.0 is fine if you want to build for python up through 2.3.* on
windows.  VC 7.1 is the way to go for 2.4 and on.  There is a free
compiler that you can download from Microsoft to build for 2.4, but
I have yet to be able to fully build a module for it.

MinGW32 (Minimal Gcc for Windows 32-bit) in its more recent forms
should also be enough to build for windows.  It works for systems
up through 2.3.*, and I suspect there will be a way to make it
happy for 2.4 on as well.  I, however, have not been able to set
it up properly yet (which is probably my fault) -- I cannot get
it to reference standard Python globals yet.

Part of my incompetence at installing the GNU setup comes from my
having used either the enthought (no affiliation except happy user)
Python build:
     http://www.enthought.com/downloads/downloads.htm
or the SciPy build:
     http://www.scipy.org/download
One of these, I believe, installed a MinGW32 compiler properly set up
for integration, but I may have simply followed directions and added
it while setting one of those up (and forgotten because it went so
smoothly).

I suspect that, over time, building extension modules with both the
"free" 7.1 compiler and the GNU compiler will be well-documented
simple procedures, but there may be a delay before such things come
out.  If you play on 2.3.* until you are really C comfortable, it
may have already happened by the time you are ready to move to 2.4.

The full VC 7.1 toolkit (visual debugger and such) is supposed to be
quite good, so if the price isn't a problem, you might want to look
into using it.  It won't work for Python before 2.4, but the IDE may
make it easier for you to develop C programs (depending primarily on
your learning and development style).

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 29 11:08:30 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:08:30 -0400
Subject: test
In-Reply-To: <USsgd.223$Tq1.99@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
References: <USsgd.223$Tq1.99@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <41825CEE.5060907@engcorp.com>

Pepo wrote:
> test

Please use the misc.test newsgroup instead.  It's not
appropriate in most cases to use other groups for testing.

-Peter


From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 15 17:07:50 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 14:07:50 -0700
Subject: ANN: PySourceColor 1.7
References: <18282ecb.0410141705.4fb6de25@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0410151307.17ed9ed3@posting.google.com>

Sorry :)
    I posted this from Google groups before I went to bed.
I didn't see the line mangling till today. Argggghhhhhh!
Thanks for you time and comments !
I have changed 'MyDir' to 'tmp', good idea. 
I am not near a computer at my day job, so my response will be delayed.
Here is a link to my webspace 'http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/e/mefjr75/'
My site is being redesigned...that is just a temporary page.

HTH,
    M.E.Farmer


From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Oct 11 06:22:42 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:22:42 +0200
Subject: String replace with return value?
In-Reply-To: <8Fsad.11445$nj.10631@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
References: <8Fsad.11445$nj.10631@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <20041011102242.GA15477@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 09:47:48AM +0000, Roose wrote:
> How can I do a "".replace operation which tells me if anything was 
> actually replaced?

You could compare the strings from before and after the replacement.

> Right now I am doing something like:
>
> if searchTerm in text:
>      text = text.replace( searchTerm, 'other' )
>
> But to me this seems inefficient since the 'in' operation will search 
> through the whole string, and then the 'replace' will as well.

Yep. Why not just omit the check and just do the replacement?

> The strings are quite large, they're whole web pages.  Thanks for
> any help.

Then I'd suggest to eventually switch to an existing templating
solution for HTML.

My guess is, however, that you're relatively new to Python. And in
this case, reinventing the wheel a few times is a good way to learn
the language and the libraries. We all did that ;-)

For your particular question, you can also use the re module to
perform string substitutions. And then, there's re.subn or the subn
method of regular expression objects, which will return both the
modified string and the number of substitutions.

Here's a short example for the subn method:

#############################################
import re
import time

modifiedRe = re.compile(r"\$modifieddate")

text = "this webpage was last modified on $modifieddate"

print text
text, replacements = modifiedRe.subn(time.asctime(), text)
print text
print replacements, "replacements made"
#############################################

HTH,

-- Gerhard


From jedp at ilm.com  Tue Oct 19 12:55:00 2004
From: jedp at ilm.com (Jed Parsons)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 09:55:00 -0700
Subject: Building email threads from unix mailboxes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5157.1098169304.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1098138259.303424.280500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5157.1098169304.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1098204900.465892.151900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Awesome!  Thanks so much.

j



From exarkun at divmod.com  Fri Oct 15 13:22:09 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:22:09 GMT
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
In-Reply-To: <ckovfd$411$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20041015172209.4730.2078576865.divmod.quotient.100@ohm>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:56:12 -0500, Donnal Walter <donnal at donnal.net> wrote:
>The following method is defined in one of my classes:
> 
>      def setup(self, items={}):
>          """perform setup based on a dictionary of items"""
>          if 'something' in items:
>              value = items['something']
>              # now do something with value
>          if 'another' in items:
>              value = items['another']
>              # do something else with value
>          if 'spam' in items:
>              value = items['spam']
>              # do yet another thing with value
>          if 'eggs' in items:
>              value = items['eggs']
>              # and so on
> 
> The purpose is to set up the object based on values contained in a 
> dictionary passed to the setup() method. The dictionary may be empty, or 
> it may contain a variable number of items, and it may contain items not 
> looked for by the setup() method. Moreover, this method may be 
> overridden in subclasses. The approach described above works ok, so I 
> suppose I should leave well enough alone, but I have this nagging 
> feeling that Python has a way to do this more simply or more elegantly. 
> Any suggestion?

  One possibility is to split the work into many methods:

    def setup(self, items={}):
        for k, v in items.itervalues():
            fName = "setup_" + k
            fObj = getattr(self, fName, None)
            if fObj is not None:
                fObj(v)

    def setup_eggs(self, value):
        # ...

    def setup_spam(self, value):
        # ...

  Jp


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 24 05:39:36 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:39:36 +0200
Subject: Invoker of a method
References: <417b6620$0$766$3a628fcd@reader10.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<1gm5ppk.1eccsusa0jd6fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417B70C5.9070208@acm.org>
Message-ID: <1gm5s6b.7d1a3na4yzllN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andre Meyer <meyer at acm.org> wrote:

> Thanks Alex

You're welcome.


> I will try this. The need for this is that I have a sort of blackboard
> architecture where multiple threads can modify information and I need to
> know who is changing what and when.

You can record the current thread without black magic, rather than
method/function names.  But maybe I don't understand your architecture
well enough to offer suggestions.


Alex


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Oct 21 20:35:06 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:35:06 -0500
Subject: Method Underscores? (and a 'solution')
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <10ngldt145cmu53@news.supernews.com>


"Jeremy Bowers" <jerf at jerf.org> wrote in message 
news:pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298 at jerf.org...
>
> But what mystical language exists that uses less punctuation than Python?
> I've tried to come up with it, and even the obscure ones I can come up
> with use more.

Forth. Postscript.

John Roth



From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Mon Oct 18 13:32:11 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:32:11 +0100
Subject: By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cl0umu$kdm$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Jonathan Ellis wrote:

>>By reference to an object....See the python tutorial.
> 
> Wrong.  Here is the difference between pass by reference and pass by
> value to CS types:

Actually it is a reference to an object being passed.

>>>>def foo(a): a = 1
> 
> ...
> 
>>>>i = 10
>>>>foo(i)
>>>>print i
> 
> With pass-by-reference, i would now be 1.  However, since python is
> pass-by-value, it remains 10.

 >>> def foo(a):
...     print id(a)
...
 >>> i = 10
 >>> id(i)
168377924
 >>> foo(i)
168377924

With pass-by-value, the memory location of a would be different than the 
memory location of i. However, since Python is pass-by-reference, it 
remains the same. <wink>

Alex is right that trying to shoehorn Python into a "pass-by-reference" 
or "pass-by-value" paradigm is misleading and probably not very helpful. 
In Python every variable assignment (even an assignment of a small 
integer) is an assignment of a reference. Every function call involves 
passing the values of those references.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Tue Oct  5 04:12:53 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:12:53 +0200
Subject: simple Tkinter Question
References: <10m3uc176vc3697@corp.supernews.com>
	<41625058$0$8339$d4d0a361@news.speedlinq.nl>
Message-ID: <416255b7$0$9479$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

duikboot wrote:
> Maboroshi wrote:
> 
>> Hi I was curious how I can pass arguments through a Tkinter Entry widget
>>
>> say I have an Entry widget and a Button widget I enter text into the 
>> entry and now I want the button to process the text is there a certain 
>> command I have to use to assign the button to the entry or vise versa
>>
>> anyhelp appreciated
> 
> 
> Take a look at 
> http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
> 
> example
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> def pr_text():
>     text = entry.get()
>     print text
> 
> gui=Tk()
> entry=Entry(gui)
> entry.pack()
> button=Button(gui, text="print", command=pr_text)
> button.pack()
> 
> gui.mainloop()

If *that* is the actual problem, I'd use a Tkinter StringVariable to do the job:

from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()
v = StringVar()
Entry(root, textvariable=v).pack()
def pr_text():
   print v.get()
Button(root, text='Print', command=pr_text).pack()
root.mainloop()

Tkinter variables are a better choice because you often want to know what *was* 
in your entry after it has been destroyed from the display. In such a case, 
entry.get() will raise a TclError, because the entry no more exists. If you use 
a variable, it will still be there after the entry was destroyed, so you can 
still read its value.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 18:10:33 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 15:10:33 -0700
Subject: Artifical Life - a job for someone else
References: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>
	<416C68C9.F3271A1C@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410141410.4dff0100@posting.google.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<416C68C9.F3271A1C at alcyone.com>...
> Michael Foord wrote:
> 
> > I really miss a decent Cellular Automota program and I was really
> > surprised that there weren't lot's of implementations for python.
> > 
> > I've seen 'cage' around, but this uses curses so doesn't work on
> > windoze :-(
> 
> I know that Kevin Altis at one point was experimenting with hooking up
> CAGE to PythonCard; I don't know how far he got or whether it eventually
> got released (as a PythonCard sample).  Martijn Faassen was kind enough
> to let me know about a CAGE integration he did for pygame, which
> apparently is working and he sent me sample code (and I'm sure he'd be
> happy to send it to you).
> 
> But even if neither of those things interest you, there _is_ a Python
> curses module that works with Windows:
> 
> 	http://flangy.com/dev/python/curses/
> 
> I haven't looked at it recently, but when it was initially announced I
> checked CAGE out in it and found to my pleasant surprise that it worked
> flawlessly and I didn't see any problems (the Web page even mentions my
> report).  As I said I haven't examined it recently, but I'm sure it's
> only improved in the meantime.


Wow - this is impressive.
CAGE works great in this version of curses.

Thanks
Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From lbates at syscononline.com  Mon Oct  4 12:46:21 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:46:21 -0500
Subject: Python and C#
In-Reply-To: <10m2la510rpeq86@corp.supernews.com>
References: <10m2la510rpeq86@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <BL6dnev5xezS4_zcRVn-vA@comcast.com>

 > Looking for advice on this as a course of action.  Obviously,
> I'm not doing this for fun, but for some reasons that are
> supported by base workaday considerations.  Will this work?
> What are the biggest hassles in making it work?  Any
> pitfalls?

Sure this will work.  You can call COM server code from Python
no matter what the COM server is written in.  I've written
COM servers in Python and called from Python, VB, PowerBuilder,
etc.  I've also called COM servers written in other languages.

> 
> If I get this to work well, next I want to make it easy for
> users to install and run the apps.  I haven't tried to
> package any python apps in about a year.  Which packaging
> package is better now for this -- py2exe, McMillan's, or
> something else?  I want the end-users with no python on
> their Windows machine to run a simple and non-descript
> installer and then be up and running with my app, no
> problems.

I like the combination of py2exe and Inno Setup.  py2exe
create standalone code and Inno to create a distributable
installer.

HTH,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Oct 13 03:07:31 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 10:07:31 +0300
Subject: IPython functionality to python [was Re: Some notes]
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7vfdfyu30.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "bearophile" == bearophile  <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> writes:

    bearophile> about such things. I have few comments and notes on
    bearophile> the Python language. I've just started to learn it;
    bearophile> this is negative because I'm ignorant still, but it's
    bearophile> also positive because I can still see details that
    bearophile> later probably I'll start to ignore.

It's highly typical for the newbies to suggest improvements to the
language. They will usually learn that they are wrong, but the
discussion that ensues can be fruitfull anyway :-).

    bearophile> Some of the functions of IPython seem good and simple,
    bearophile> and I think some of them can be integrated into the
    bearophile> main Python line.

IPython will be going through a Grand Cleanup Real Soon Now (as
Fernando Perez' time permits). Before that, integration of the
functionality probably isn't the smart thing to do. 

As it stands, I'd see IPython as a more likely candidate for some kind
of "extra batteries" edition of python.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 02:41:10 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 23:41:10 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4287.1096945195.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410042241.2949363e@posting.google.com>

Arich Chanachai <macrocosm at fastmail.fm> wrote in message 
> Paul Foley wrote:
> >
> >What on Earth can you mean by this?  Python already has it, and always
> >has.  What do you think "foo.bar()" is other than "pass message `bar'
> >to object `foo'"?
> >
> What if foo doesn't know about bar(), can I tell foo that perhaps it 
> should send the bar() message to...say....boo?

You want to redefine __getattr__ and __setattr__. It is pretty easy to
search the documentation for them.


            Michele Simionato


From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 14 11:32:49 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 15:32:49 GMT
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<10mt60mhr42rl09@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <416e9c21$0$23221$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-14, Michael Hobbs <mike at hobbshouse.org> wrote:

>> My question has to do with python and linux - I was interested in 
>> finding out what it would take to reimplement the Linux Kernel in python 
>> basically just taking the source code from linux and rewriting it in 
>> python Would this idea make sense to do - if so what would be the 
>> benefits of doing this and in what way would this not be a good idea
>
> I had once given serious thought to what it would take to write an OS only
> in a high-level language. (Standard ML was my language of choice at the
> time.) The short answer is, no, it can't be done with Python as it currently
> stands. 
>
> First, you would need a Python compiler that can compile Python programs to 
> machine code. Otherwise, what would you write your interpreter in? Python?

Silicon.  ;)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Vote for ME
                                  at               -- I'm well-tapered,
                               visi.com            half-cocked, ill-conceived
                                                   and TAX-DEFERRED!


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Oct 28 07:24:26 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:24:26 +0200
Subject: Becoming Unicode Aware
References: <6f402501.0410270256.13cf5727@posting.google.com>
	<2u9dpvF27biksU1@uni-berlin.de> <41802fc5.943925352@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <clqkta$fp0$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> 
>     afunction(lines, None)
> 
> would seem to be a feasible call ;-)

Ok, I admit that I didn't think of _that_ stupid possibility :)
Nevertheless: he wants unicode objects, so he should make sure he gets
them....
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 10:47:11 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:47:11 -0300
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <yfs8yanetzp.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk> <10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
	<cam7d.455$UP1.116@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<yfsacv5h224.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<slrnclvng4.u8f.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<yfs8yanetzp.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <864d3709041004074753763c0d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:50:18 +0100, Alexander Schmolck
<a.schmolck at gmx.net> > Yes, that's why I mentioned the need for a
"documented and *reasonably
> reliable*" version in another post (the code also happens to be terribly
> inefficient, but that's presumably not such a big concern).

Shouldn't it be easier (and less contentious) to add the 'run'
function to the commands module? I mean, messing with the os module
may be a little bit harder, because most calls there simply mimic the
standard library calls. Convenience functions (such as run()) could go
elsewhere, and commands is a nice candidate -- you can use it to check
return values, and similar stuff.

Of course -- the docs should be updated, and os.system *should* point
to (commands.run | os.run | whatever) as a good convenience
alternative.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From amk at amk.ca  Sun Oct 31 20:33:14 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:33:14 -0600
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails
	...	python on ?)
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
	<sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5728.1099211579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.31.18.43.39.352636@large.net>
Message-ID: <ZoydnWBxGZHHDxjcRVn-jg@speakeasy.net>

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:43:39 -0700, 
	flab ba <flab at large.net> wrote:
> I'm not a graphics designer, but I need more spiffyness than the MEMS web
> site - which is done in Quixote.

The line about graphic design is there because PTL will be alien to graphic
designers, so if your HTML is very elaborate and requires lots of tweaking,
your standard HTML author will be confused.  However, in lots of cases you
can just write plain vanilla HTML, being sure to put DIV elements and ID
attributes in the right places, and then style the pages with CSS.  Quixote
is betting that pure HTML + CSS is the way of the future.

(I don't like the current MX style sheet either, but that's nothing to
do with Quixote.)

--amk


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 15 14:18:40 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 21:18:40 +0300
Subject: operation with strings and numbers
References: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it>
Message-ID: <du7acun3kvz.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Hellas" == Hellas  <hellas_74 at hotmail.com> writes:

    Hellas> Hello guy

    Hellas> I'm italian boy, I need help for doing a strange thing
    Hellas> with numbers

Did you mean Italian SCHOOLboy, be any chance? Don't be afraid to say
so, because everyone can guess anyway.



    Hellas> I have a number from operation like this:
    Hellas> a = float("010.123")
    Hellas> b = float("001.124")
    Hellas> p= a*b
    Hellas> p="%06.3f" % p
    Hellas> the resulted is "_11,278" where "_" is a space

No, it isn't. 

In [6]: "%06.3f" % p
Out[6]: '11.378'


In [7]: "%07.3f" % p
Out[7]: '011.378'

    Hellas> I must to change the formatting of this number in "011278"
    Hellas> but I don't known

In [8]: "lunttaus".replace("t","")
Out[8]: 'lunaus'

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 19 22:50:58 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:50:58 -0400
Subject: Turning a string into an programatic mathematical expression
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5204.1098239457.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5204.1098239457.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1tkdd.783$si.129@lakeread04>

Daniel Bickett wrote:

> The title really says it all. I'm trying to take input from a user
> (intended to be a mathematical expression), from a text box for
> example, and evaluate it mathematically within the program. For
> clarification: the user inputs the string "4*5(3-3)", I would be
> interested in a straight-forward way to find the result of that, based
> only on a string. The follow-up question would be how to incorporate
> variables into the mix, however I'll leave it at that for now. Thanks
> for your time :)
> 
> Daniel Bickett

I should, perhaps, have explained that the input() built-in essentially 
applies the eval() function to an input string. So, whatever the source 
of your string you can use eval() to evaluate it.

The difficulty is that there's little control over what the user can 
enter (though you do get the choice of providing dictionaries of local 
and global variables it's hard to limit what users have access to and 
still provide sufficient functionality).

 >>> eval('"Hello" + " " + "world"')
'Hello world'
 >>> eval("3+14/27.4")
3.5109489051094891
 >>>

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From gilles.lenfant at nospam.com  Mon Oct 18 11:49:13 2004
From: gilles.lenfant at nospam.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:49:13 +0200
Subject: SMTP question
In-Reply-To: <20041017040136.18077.00005364@mb-m03.aol.com>
References: <20041017040136.18077.00005364@mb-m03.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4173e620$0$23264$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

LutherRevisited a ?crit :

> I'm trying to send an email this way:
> msg = MIMEText(self.text_ctrl_1.GetValue())
>         msg['Subject'] = sub
>         msg['From'] = 'bossierbossman at yahoo.com'
>         msg['To'] = to
>         s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.mail.yahoo.com')
>         s.set_debuglevel(1)
>         s.connect()
>         s.sendmail('bossierbossman at yahoo.com', to, msg)
>         s.quit()
> but this is not working at all.  Can someone point me in the right direction?

Have a look at the email package that provides features for building 
easily RFC822 compliant mail headers and bodies (including multipart).

--
Gilles


From sean at buildingonline.com  Wed Oct 20 14:49:58 2004
From: sean at buildingonline.com (Sean Berry)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:49:58 -0700
Subject: Replaced time module with my own on accident - help
Message-ID: <2rydd.51253$hj.10617@fed1read07>

I was writing a little script to test different functions of the time 
module.  Like an idiot, I named the test script time.py.

Then when I tried to do a "import time" call, I got an error.

So, my time.py has overwritten the time.py builtin mod.

I have python 2.3 installed on a few different servers, so I was going to 
copy over the .py file in /usr/local/lib/python2.3, but I could not find 
one... not even on the servers where I didn't screw this up.

$ find . -name "time*"
./python2.3/timeit.py
./python2.3/timeit.pyc
./python2.3/timeit.pyo
./python2.3/lib-dynload/time.so

Where is the original time.py kept?  And is there an easier way to get it 
back?

Thanks and sorry about my ignorance.







From dd55 at cornell.edu  Fri Oct 15 15:59:12 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:59:12 -0400
Subject: checking available system memory?
Message-ID: <ckpa75$muv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

I am doing linear algebra with large numarray. It is very efficient, but I
have a small problem due to the size of my data. The dot product of a
10,000x3 double array with a 3x6,250,000 double array will consume 500GB of
memory. I need to break the operations up into managable chunks, so I dont
consume all the available memory and get a segmentation fault.

Its not a problem with numpy, I just need to intelligently slice up one of
my arrays so my routine works within the available system resources. Are
there any utilities that can query how much memory is available?

Thanks,
Darren


From wganz at texoma.net  Thu Oct 21 20:32:13 2004
From: wganz at texoma.net (Will Ganz)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:32:13 -0500
Subject: RTFM
In-Reply-To: <1668af80.0210221211.1baca03c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <OPEDLDOFHCDKBPBIHMHFOEGKDCAA.wganz@texoma.net>

If you have the RTFM attitude, take it to a Perl list. You'll fit in much
better.



:> -----Original Message-----
:> From: python-list-admin at python.org
:> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of demian neidetcher
:> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 3:11 PM
:> To: python-list at python.org
:> Subject: RTFM
:>
:>
:> RTFM
:>
:> after you've done that go to...
:> http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
:> --
:> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
:>




From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 30 03:04:27 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 03:04:27 -0400
Subject: PythonWin -- COM server won't change???
In-Reply-To: <x7xgd.55$a24.45@trndny07>
References: <x7xgd.55$a24.45@trndny07>
Message-ID: <41833CFB.4050704@holdenweb.com>

U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles wrote:

> List:
> 
> I made a small change to a COM server under PythonWin.
> 
> I unregistered, then reregistered the server.
> 
> But the old version is still being invoked.
> 
> Did I miss a step:
> 
> Code follows.
> 
Well, for example, if it's currently mapped into a process you'll have 
to somehow get that process to reload() the module. I can't remember 
offhand what the default is, btu I know that the only way I can pick up 
a re-registered object under IIS is to have a web page import and then 
reload() the module that the COM server is defined in. Kinda yucky, but 
it works, don't know whether it'll help you.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct  8 05:43:01 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:43:01 +0200
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ck5neo$t2n$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Egbert Bouwman wrote:

> A file is too large to fit into memory.
> The first line must receive a special treatment, because
> it contains??information?about?how?to?handle?the?rest?of?the?file.
> 
> Of course it is not difficult to test if you are reading the first line
> or another one, but it hurts my feelings to do a test which by definition
> succeeds at the first record, and never afterwards.

 >>> lines = iter("abc")
>>> for first in lines:
...     print first
...     break
...
a
>>> for line in lines:
...     print line
...
b
c

Unless it hurts your feelings to unconditionally break out of a for-loop,
that is.

Peter




From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 06:22:03 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 03:22:03 -0700
Subject: Test: please ignore
In-Reply-To: <416BCD9B.ACC1722@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
References: <416BCD9B.ACC1722@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
Message-ID: <1097662924.12092.7.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 14:27 +0200, denis wendum wrote:
> Checking if connection works. Seems OK.

If it seems "OK", then why check it?

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom at no.spam.net  Fri Oct 29 23:59:45 2004
From: JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 03:59:45 GMT
Subject: names of parameters as string
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
	<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>
	<m31xfh8uhy.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>
	<mailman.5663.1099065452.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <291020042102228624%JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom@no.spam.net>



Take a look at the getargspec() function in the inspect module.  It
returns a 4-tuple and the first item of that tuple is a list of the
parameter names of a function or method.

<pre>
  import inspect
  def foo(p1, p2):
    pass
  print inspect.getargspec(foo)

results in:

  (['p1', 'p2'], None, None, None)

</pre>

The second item is the name of the *args argument, the third is the
name of the **kwds argument and the last item is a tuple of the values
of the kwds args.

More details in

<http://docs.python.org/lib/inspect-classes-functions.html>

and on page 381 of the (outstanding, IMO) book "Python in a Nutshell",
1st edition.


/Jean Brouwers
 ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.


>  >>> def foo( foo_param1, foo_param2):


In article <mailman.5663.1099065452.5135.python-list at python.org>,
andrea valle <andrea.valle at unito.it> wrote:

> Hi to all,
> I'd like to access the parameter list of a function (or better of a 
> method) in order to generate GUI elements.
> That is.
> If I have this:
> 
>  >>> def foo( foo_param1, foo_param2):
>     print foo_param
> 
> I'd like to have something like:
> 
>  >>> print foo.param_list
>  >>> 'foo_param1', 'foo_param2'
> 
> My idea is to use the foo_params strings in Tkinter as text for Label 
> and as variables for Entries.
> 
> What have I to do?
> 
> Thanks a lot as usual
> 
> Best
> 
> -a-
> 
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> For your security, this mail has been scanned and protected by Inflex


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 11 06:51:49 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:51:49 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.10.16.48.24.930075@jerf.org>
	<4169982d.4238722751@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.10.19.48.01.604089@jerf.org>
	<4169c7ad.4250882926@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.11.00.12.36.26295@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <416a4a51.4284326856@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:08:49 GMT, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 02:19:03 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:24:57 GMT, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
>>>For positive numbers, a number really is its vector of bits. In the
>>               ^^^^^[1]              [2]^^ ^^^[3]        ^^^^[4]
>> [1] Abstract, non-negative integers?
>
>Integers is more convenient here, but any one dimensional number will do.
>It so happens that computers do not encode "reals" in the naive way, to
>allow for more variation in magnitude.
True. But my point (just about everywhere in the post) was to draw attention
to the distinction between abstract entities (e.g. numbers) and concrete representations.
>
>> [2] "is" as in "is identical with"? I doubt it.
>
>With respect, this isn't something to doubt or not doubt. There is one,
>and only one, way to represent any positive number in base two, since
I think we are focusing on different things. When you say "a number really is
its vector of bits" I think wait: a number is a number and a vector of bits
is a vector of bits, but you can't say one _is_ the other. You can say they
correspond in some way. When you say of a number "its vector of bits" I presume
that "its" refers to "its" partner in the number<->bit vector relationship,
not in the sense that an aggregate has its components. To me, a (one-dimensional)
number is a primitive entity, and "has" no parts, though it may correspond to
a representation that does have parts and order etc.

I am hard put to think of anything that is _identical_ with any of the
possible representations that it may be put in correspondence with.

>encoding sign is not an issue. Assuming an extra bit to show sign, there
>is one and only one way to represent any negative number, too. (Zero gets
>to be the exception since then you can have positive and negative zero,
>which are theoretically identical, but on some machines that implement
>them have practical differences.)
>
>Endianness is just some wackiness in the ordering, but does not really
>change that. 60000 + 50000 = 110000 no matter what endianess you have.
Wackiness must be accounted for ;-)

>
>> [3] In what sense does an abstract number posess (its) a vector of bits?
>
>It does not. It *is* a series of ones and zeros, in base two. It *is* a
>series of ones, zeros, and twos, in base three. It *is* a series of [0-9]
>in base ten. It is all of these things at once, and an infinite number of
>other things besides.
Depends on what the meaning of "is" is ;-) Your "is" seems to mean
"can be represented by" in my terms. That's not "is" in my book ;-)

>
>1 + 1 fully *is* 2. There is no difference mathematically. If there is,
>your math is broken.
You are apparently ignoring representation and just thinking in terms of
what is indicated. So yes, '1 + 1' represents something and '2' represents
something, and for some getabstractvalue, getabstractvalue('1 + 1') _is_ 
getabstractvalue('2'). But whatever your representation, there is that
function that maps to the abstract mathematical value. 

>
>> [4] A two's complement representation of an (abstract) integer, has
>> "bits"
>>     as _numerical_ values in the sum series with corresponding numerical
>>     coefficients that are powers of two. But "bits" in the context of
>>     bitwise ^ or & or | do not represent abstract _numerical_ values or
>>     0 or 1, they represent logical values False or True (and 0<->False,
>>     1<->True is just a convention that we're used to.
>
>No. They represent both of those things at once. 1 *is* True, and 0 *is*
>false, in the domain of bitwise operators. 
ISTM we have different concepts of "is" ;-)
>
>There is no "either/or" here, only "both/and".
>
>> IOW, there's no such thing as "a base 10 number"...  A "base 10 number" is composed with a set of
>> digits [0-9] and a rule for ordered composition and a rule for an
>> interpretation to map back to the abstract value. 
>
>Well, I thank you for supplying the missing definition, I suppose.
>
Well, I made up an ad hoc definition to try to express my thinking on it ;-)

>> We can discuss each
>> part of this process, but the bottom line is that when we say that
>> represented values are equal, we are saying that representations map
>> back to the same unique abstract value, not that representations per se
>> are identical.
>
>Yep, that is part of my point, see below.
>
>>>>     What is boolvec(388488839405842L) ^ boolvec("hello")?
>>>
>>>I'd rather see this as the fairly meaningless "388488839405842L base 2",
>>>meaningless because the base of a number does not affect its value, and
>>>bitwise-xor, as the name implies, operates on the number base two.
>> Well, to be nit-picky, I still think it does not really operate on a
>> number at all. It converts a number to an ordered set of bools, by way
>> of an intermediate two's complement _representation_ whose _numeric_ bit
>> values are mapped to bool values. Then, after the operating with the
>> ordered sets of bools, the resulting set is mapped back to a two's
>> complement integer representation again, which can be interpreted as an
>> abstract integer value again ;-)
>
>In the domain of binary logic, I do not concede a difference between "1"
>and "True", on the grounds that there is no way in the domain of binary
>logic to distinguish the two.
It's a matter of interpretation. I view 1 and True as different, sort of like

 >>> type(1), type(bool(1))
 (<type 'int'>, <type 'bool'>)
 
>
>> IOW, a typical float is a 64-bit IEEE-754 double, so there are 2**64
>> possible states of the representation machinery. Not all of those states
>> are legal floating point number representations, but each one that _is_
>> legal corresponds to an _exact_ abstract real value. It _can_ be the
>> exact value you wanted to represent, or not, depending on your
>> programming problem. Inexactness in not a property of floating point
>> representations, it is a property of their _relation_ to the exact
>> abstract values the programmer is trying to represent. 0.0 represents
>> the exact same abstract value as integer 0 (perhaps by way of mapping
>> integers conceived as separate to a subset of reals).
>
>This is a matter of definition. My problem with your definition mostly
>lies in the fact that it is not as practically useful as mine. Someone
>operating on the "floats are almost, but not quite, exact values" is
I didn't say that. I said they do represent _exact_ values, and that you
can use the available exact values as you like, including intepreting them
as tokens representing an interval on the real axis containing all the values
that will round to the exact value in question.

>*much* less well equipped to handle the way floats bite you than someone
>who operates with "floats represent a value and have an error range around
>that value", because then they should understand they need to compute not
>just with the values, but track the buildup of that error range as well.
>It's a point-of-view thing.
>
>>>can be made arbitrarily small but never truly identifies one point. This
>> I disagree. 0.0 truly identifies one point. So does
>> 
>>     3.141592653589793115997963468544185161590576171875
>> 
>> which is the _exact_ value of math.pi in decimal representation. But
>> this is _not_ the exact value of the abstract mathematical pi.
>
>Python 2.3.4 (#1, Sep 28 2004, 20:15:25) 
>[GCC 3.3.3 20040412 (Gentoo Linux 3.3.3-r6, ssp-3.3.2-2, pie-8.7.6)] on linux2
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>  3.1415926535897931159979634685441851615905761718758327502398752309 == 3.14159265358979311599796346854418516159057617187500000000000
>True
Two different numbers were rounded to the same exact number ;-)
>
>Look at the last digits. (Python is just a convenience here, this is
>fundamental to all float representation schemes, as opposed to things like
>Decimal.)
>
>This is why I say they represent a range. In set theory, we'd call this an
I agree they can be used to _represent_ a range. The range (actually a half-open
continuous interval I think) will be defined in terms of the _exact_ value
and the neighboring _exact_ values available in the set of values with concrete
representations in the particular hardware.

>equivalence class for equality. There is *no* way to distinguish between 
>3.1415926535897931159979634685441851615905761718758327502398752309 and
>3.14159265358979311599796346854418516159057617187500000000000 with floats
>(of the size Python uses, add more digits for some other bit count), not
>even in theory. They are the same in every way. That's because the closest
>float represents a range that covers them both. You can shrink that range
Now tell me _exactly_ what that "range" is. I know it's a messy algorithm,
but the intevals are _exactly_ defined, so where will the _exact_ mathematical
values of the limits come from? ;-) (we'll ignore fpu rounding modes ;-)
>arbitrarily small but you can not get to a unique point, such that only
>one true real will compare equal to that number and all others do not, not
>even in theory.
Well, yes, we can only create finite sets of representations ;-)
But you can "get to a unique point" by switching interpretation. I.e.,
if you take the floating point number's exact value as such, instead of
using that value and neighbors as a means to define an interval, then
you do have a unique point. E.g., all the exact values of a 53-bit integer
can be represented _exactly_ by a typical 64-bit double. The floating point
representation is no less exact than the corresponding int or long.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct 22 09:15:09 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:15:09 +0200
Subject: About lambda.
References: <mailman.5314.1098446749.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clb13u$2mn$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Xin Wang wrote:

> Some c++ guru said c++ is hard to learn but easy to
> use. Is python easy for both aspect? I found lot's of
> confused in coding.
> 
> #code
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> def on_click(m):
>     print m
> def lamb_on_click(m):
>     return lambda : on_click(m)
> root = Tk()
> btns = ['0', '1', '2', '3']
> for n in btns:
>     b = Button(root, text=n, command=lamb_on_click(n))
> #Ok!
>     b.pack()
> root.mainloop()
> #
> 
> Or,
> 
> #code
> ...
>     b = Button(root, text=n, command=lambda x=n:
> click(x)) #Ok!
> ...
> #
> 
> The code above works well too, but follow is NOT! WHY?
> 
> #code
> ...
>     b = Button(root, text=n, command=lambda :
> on_click(n))
> ...
> #
> 
> Whichever button be clicked, this only print '3'.
> 
> Keyword 'lambda' is just like a macro in c or templete
> in c++ or not?

Your problem has nothing to do with lambda.

f = lambda args: expr

is just another way to write

def f(args): return expr

You are rather fighting with scopes.

>>> funcs = []
>>> for i in range(3):
...     def f(): print i
...     funcs.append(f)
...
>>> for f in funcs: f()
...
2
2
2

Here the functions f as defined in the for loop refer to the global name
'i', which is is bound to 2 by the time f is called. 
There are various remedies, the simplest probably being

>>> funcs = []
>>> for i in range(3):
...     def f(i=i): print i
...     funcs.append(f)
...
>>> for f in funcs: f()
...
0
1
2

Here the parameter i is set to default to the value the global i is bound
to. After this is done further rebindings of the global variable don't
affect that default value. When the function is called without parameter,
it prints the default value of its parameter i instead of the global i.

Another option is to define a factory function:

>>> def make_f(i):
...     def f(): print i
...     return f
...
>>> funcs = []
>>> for i in range(3):
...     funcs.append(make_f(i))
...
>>> for f in funcs: f()
...
0
1
2

This introduces another scope every time make_f() is called to which the i
inside f() refers.

Finally you can write a class with callable instances:

>>> class F:
...     def __init__(self, i): self.i = i
...     def __call__(self): print self.i
...
>>> funcs = []
>>> for i in range(3):
...     funcs.append(F(i))
...
>>> for f in funcs: f() # f() now invokes the special method __call__()
...
0
1
2

Any state is kept in the instance. This variant would be overkill in your
example but has the benefit that you can easily modify the state, e. g. you
could increment self.i every time the instance is called and factor out
functionality in helper methods for larger problems.

Peter



From zooko at zooko.com  Thu Oct 21 08:39:38 2004
From: zooko at zooko.com (zooko at zooko.com)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 09:39:38 -0300
Subject: Actual memory used by an object --- How to Determine?
Message-ID: <E1CKcEE-0005j6-00@localhost>


Here some some functions I've used to analyze memory usage in the past.

http://mnetproject.org/repos/pyutil/pyutil/memutil.py

There may be bugs.  If so, please fix them or at least report them.

Regards,

Zooko



From http  Thu Oct  7 15:31:51 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 12:31:51 -0700
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7x1xga495k.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Fuzzyman <fuzzyman at gmail.com> writes:
> Assuming that each visitor will have a unique IP address is probably
> not 100% accurate but will have a reasonably low margin of error !! 

Nah, you can't rely on that at all.  For example, all N zillion AOL
users come through only a few hundred different IP addresses.  And
SOMETIMES you get those proxy headers other people have mentioned, but
not all that often.


From caw at southernhealth.org.au  Mon Oct 11 21:00:40 2004
From: caw at southernhealth.org.au (caw at southernhealth.org.au)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 18:00:40 -0700
Subject: understanding generators  and functions with arguments
Message-ID: <c6dd4e35.0410111700.2be6c24c@posting.google.com>

this is the smallest bit of code I could get to demonstrate what I
want to understand...

def msg(text):
    def decorate(f):
        def new_f(*args):
            print text, f(*args)
        return new_f
    return decorate


@msg("Hello, ")
def f1(s):
    return s


if __name__ == '__main__':
    f1("world!")


~/src/python caw$ python dec_play.py 
Hello,  world!

OK... so I can give a decorator and argument, and that will then
return the function <decorate>. This expects one argument (and is a
decorator (?)). When decorate is called with f1 as the argument, it
returns new_f, which, when called will print <text> (passed to the
original decorator), together with the result of calling f1 with its
args.

I don't understand the scope of *args, as seen in the argument list of
new_f. It doesn't appear to be in the static scope of msg, or decorate
or new_f...

Could someone help me with this...

Thanks

chris wright


From hs at byteconcepts.de  Mon Oct 18 12:04:53 2004
From: hs at byteconcepts.de (Henri Schomaecker)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:04:53 +0200
Subject: unsigned char array -> buffer
Message-ID: <cl0pj4$pj9$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi again,

as I already wrote, I'm trying to get image binary data into a var holding
an unsigned char string and then print it directly to the browser.
I now already did some tries with an array and now found the buffer()
function. - I thought I would have the solution now and also changed stdout
to O_BINARY, but still I don't get the data right:

8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------

imgObj = win32com.client.Dispatch("mine.imgsender")
myImgData = buffer(imgObj.getImgData())

msvcrt.setmode(sys.stdout.fileno(), os.O_BINARY)
sys.stdout.write(myImgData)

8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------

I'm really lost and would be very thankful if someone could help me with
that.

Many thanks in advance,
    yours Henri

-- 
| Henri Schom?cker - BYTECONCEPTS, VIRTUAL HOMES
| ? ? Datendesign f?r Internet und Intranet
| ? ? ? ? http://www.byteconcepts.de
| ? ? ? ? http://www.virtual-homes.de


From wjdandreta at att.net  Tue Oct 19 22:53:43 2004
From: wjdandreta at att.net (Bill Dandreta)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:53:43 GMT
Subject: Help with my 1st Tkinter program
Message-ID: <Xqkdd.13112$OD2.12619@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Below is my 1st Tkinter program.

I would like some constructive criticism, what did I do poorly and how 
can it be improved. My goal was to write the program using only what 
comes with Python so it will be cross platform without having to 
maintain various versions of the code for different platforms and easy 
for users to run (i.e., not having to download and install various modules).

I failed on only one count, sound. To my great disappointment, Python 
has no native sound support of any kind. All I needed was the ability to 
play a sound file. I am using tkSnack for sound.

Bill
=====================================

#!/usr/bin/env python
#
# wordsearch.py - A simple worsearch game. Written October 2004. A list of
# words is hidden in a square grid of letters. The words are placed 
vertically,
# horizontally and diagonally. Game play consists of finding the words 
in the
# grid. You identify the words by clicking the left button while the 
cursor is
# over the 1st or last letter of the word and dragging to the opposite 
end of
# the word at which point the word becomes hilighted and is deleted from the
# word list. You release the button and repeat with another word in the 
list.
#
from Tkinter import *
import tkFont
from math import sqrt
from os import stat
from stat import ST_SIZE
from random import randrange
from sys import argv
from sets import Set
import tkSnack
from tkMessageBox import showinfo

class MsgDialog(Toplevel):

   def __init__(self, f, parent=None, title=None, msg="\n\nHello!\n\n", 
buttonLabel="Dismiss"):
     Toplevel.__init__(self, parent)
     self.transient(parent)
     self.parent = parent
     if title:
       self.title(title)
     F = Frame(self)
     self.grab_set()
     self.protocol("WM_DELETE_WINDOW", self.dismiss)
     self.geometry("+%d+%d" % 
(parent.winfo_rootx()+100,parent.winfo_rooty()+100))
     F.grid()
     L = Label(self, text=msg, font=f)
     L.grid(column=0,row=0)
     B = Button(self, text=buttonLabel, command=self.dismiss, 
default=ACTIVE, font=f)
     B.grid(column=0,row=1)
     self.initial_focus = B
     self.initial_focus.focus_set()
     self.wait_window(self)

   def dismiss(self, event=None):

     """Returns focus to parent and closes dialog window."""

     self.parent.focus_set()
     self.destroy()

class Application(Frame):

   def __init__(self, master=None):
     Frame.__init__(self, master)
     self.MOUSE_DOWN = False
     self.found_word = False
     self.game_won = False
     global f14
     f14 = tkFont.Font(family="Courier New", size=14, weight="bold")
     self.grid()
     self.createWidgets()
     self.populate_listbox(self.wordlist)
     self.populate_matrix(self.letterMatrix,self.wordlist)

   def createWidgets(self):

     """Creates the wordlist listbox, letterMatrix canvas, newGame button
        and Quit button """

     self.wordlist = Listbox(self, height=20, font=f14)
     L=self.wordlist
     L.grid(column=1, row=0)
     self.letterMatrix = Canvas(self, bg="white", width=640, height=640)
     C = self.letterMatrix
     C.grid(column=0,row=0)
     C.bind("<ButtonPress-1>", self.press)
     C.bind("<ButtonRelease-1>", self.release)
     self.quit = Button(self,text="Quit", command=self.quit, font=f14)
     Q=self.quit
     Q.grid(column=0, row=1)
     self.new = Button(self,text="New Game", command=self.new_game, 
font=f14)
     N=self.new
     N.grid(column=1, row=1)

   def populate_listbox(self, L):

     """Selects a wordlist at random and chooses 20 words (5 to 13 bytes 
long)
        from the list at random and puts them in the listbox"""

     word_files = ['bible']*15+['birds']*45+['dogs']+['names']*30
     self.word_file = word_files[randrange(len(word_files))]
     f=self.word_file
     self.master.title("WordSearch "+f)
     all_words = open(f, 'rb')
     size = stat(f)[ST_SIZE]
     self.words = []
     words = self.words
     while len(words)<20:
       pos = randrange(size)
       all_words.seek(pos)
       bytes = all_words.read(256)
       lines = bytes.split('\n')
       for w in lines[1:-1]:
         w = w[:-1]
         ws = len(w)
         if ws>4 and ws<14:
           if w not in words:
             words.append(w)
             break
     words.sort()
     for w in words:
       L.insert(END,w)
     self.words = [w.replace(' ','') for w in words]

   def select_random_start(self,word_length):

     """Select a random starting point and direction in the letterMatrix 
for a word"""

     max_len = [0]
     direction = 0
     while max_len[direction]<word_length:
       row,col = randrange(26),randrange(26)
       direction = randrange(8)
       max_len = {0:26-col,1:min(row,26-col),2:row,3:min(row,col),
                  4:col,5:min(26-row,col),6:26-row,7:min(26-row,26-col)}
     deltas = {0:(24,0),1:(24,-24),2:(0,-24),3:(-24,-24),
               4:(-24,0),5:(-24,24),6:(0,24),7:(24,24)}
     x,y = 24+24*col,24+24*row
     dx,dy = deltas[direction]
     return x,y,dx,dy

   def remove_letters(self, word,M,C):

     """Remove letters for a word that did not fit."""

     for obj in C.find_withtag(word):
       tags = [tag for tag in C.gettags(obj) if tag!='current' and 
tag!=word]
       if tags:
         C.dtag(obj,word)
       else:
         (x,y) = C.coords(obj)
         del M[x,y]
         C.delete(obj)

   def print_word(self,C,M,word):

     """Place a word in the letterMatrix."""

     x,y,dx,dy = self.select_random_start(len(word))
     for letter in word:
       if (x,y) not in M:
         M[x,y] = C.create_text(x,y,text=letter,font=f14,tags=word, 
fill=solution_color)
       elif C.itemcget(M[x,y],'text')==letter:
         C.addtag_withtag(word,M[x,y])
       else:
         self.remove_letters(word,M,C)
         return False
       x,y = x+dx,y+dy
     return True

   def populate_matrix(self,C,L):

     """Put all words in the matrix trying to place each word up to 1000
        times then fill in all remaining empty positions in letter'Matrix
        with random letters."""

     words = self.words
     self.matrix = {}
     M = self.matrix
     for word in words:
       for i in range(1000):
         if self.print_word(C,M,word):
           break
     alpha = 'ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ'
     col,row=0,0
     for i in range(26*26):
       x = 24+24*col
       y = 24+24*row
       if (x,y) not in M:
         letter = alpha[randrange(26)]
         M[x,y] = C.create_text(x, y, text=letter, font=f14, tags="t")
       col = (col + 1) % 26
       if col==0:
         row += 1

   def press(self, event):

     """Marks the anchor point for letter selection during game play."""

     C = event.widget
     if 't' in C.itemcget('current', "tags"):
       (self.anchorx,self.anchory) = C.coords('current')
       self.last = self.matrix[(self.anchorx,self.anchory)]
       self.MOUSE_DOWN = True
       self.found_word = False
       C.bind("<Motion>",self.motion)

   def draw_enclosure(self,x,y,ax,ay,slope,C):

     """Draws a loop around selected letters, i.e., anchor letter to letter
        under current mouse position."""

     delta = 5*sqrt(2)
     lines = {-1:[delta,delta], 0:[0,10], 1:[-delta,delta],'undef':[10,0]}
     [dx,dy] = lines[slope]
     dy = lines[slope][1]
     self.line1 = C.create_line(x+dx,y+dy,ax+dx, ay+dy)
     self.line2 = C.create_line(x-dx,y-dy,ax-dx, ay-dy)
     arcs = {-1:[135,360*int(y>ay)-180], 0:[90,-360*int(x>ax)+180], 
1:[45,-360*int(x>ax)+180],'undef':[0,360*int(y<ay)-180]}
     startangle=arcs[slope][0]
     extentangle =arcs[slope][1]
     self.arc1 = 
C.create_arc(x-10,y+10,x+10,y-10,style="arc",start=startangle,extent = 
extentangle)
     self.arc2 = 
C.create_arc(ax-10,ay+10,ax+10,ay-10,style="arc",start=startangle,extent 
=-extentangle)

   def getword(self,x,y,ax,ay,slope,C,M):

     """Checks selected letters to see if they form a word, if so hilights
        the letters and returns the word."""

     ltrs = [C.itemcget(M[ax,ay],'text'),C.itemcget(M[x,y],'text')]
     potential_words1 = Set(C.gettags(M[ax,ay]))
     potential_words2 = Set(C.gettags(M[x,y]))
     potential_words = potential_words1 & potential_words2
     word_len = 1+max(abs(ax-x),abs(ay-y))/24
     for word in potential_words:
       if word[0] in ltrs and word[-1] in ltrs and len(word)==word_len:
         for i in C.find_withtag(word):
           C.itemconfigure(i,fill='red')
         self.MOUSE_DOWN = False
         return word
       else:
         return None

   def calc_slope(self,x,y,ax,ay):

     """Calculate the slope of the line connecting the anchor letter to the
        letter at the current mouse position."""

     try:
       slope = (y-ay)/(x-ax)
     except:
       slope = 'undef'
     return slope

   def delete_enclosure(self,C):

     """Remove the loop around the last selection of letters."""

     try:
       for obj in [self.line1, self.line2, self.arc1, self.arc2]:
         C.delete(obj)
     except:
       pass

   def motion (self, event):

     """Checks whether selected letters form a word from the wordlist and if
        so hilights the word and removes it from the listbox."""

     if self.MOUSE_DOWN:
       C = event.widget
       M = self.matrix
       pts = C.coords(C.find_closest(event.x,event.y))
       if len(pts)==2:
         (x,y) = pts
         if M[(x,y)] != self.last:
           self.last = M[(x,y)]
           (ax,ay) = (self.anchorx,self.anchory)
           slope = self.calc_slope(x,y,ax,ay)
           if slope in [-1, 0 ,1, 'undef']:
             self.delete_enclosure(C)
             self.draw_enclosure(x,y,ax,ay,slope,C)
             word = self.getword(x,y,ax,ay,slope,C,M)
             if word:
               self.found_word = True
               self.MOUSE_DOWN = False
               indx = self.words.index(word)
               L = self.wordlist
               L.delete(indx)
               if L.size()==0:
                 self.game_won = True
               self.words.remove(word)

   def release(self, event):

     """Does any needed cleanup when mouse button is released after 
letter selection."""

     C = event.widget
     C.unbind("<Motion>")
     self.MOUSE_DOWN = False
     if self.found_word:
       self.found_word = False
       try:
         self.line1=self.line2=self.arc1=self.arc2=None
       except:
         pass
     else:
       self.delete_enclosure(C)
     if self.game_won:
       self.show_game_won_window()

   def new_game(self):

     """Clear the game board and reinitialize."""

     self.MOUSE_DOWN = False
     self.found_word = False
     self.game_won = False
     C = self.letterMatrix
     for obj in C.find_all():
       C.delete(obj)
     L = self.wordlist
     while L.size() != 0:
       L.delete(0)
     self.populate_listbox(L)
     self.populate_matrix(C,L)

   def show_game_won_window(self):

     """Play a sound and display winning dialog."""

     tkSnack.initializeSnack(self)
     tada = tkSnack.Sound(load='tada.wav')
     tada.play()
     MsgDialog(f14, app, "Winner","\n\n   Congratulations you won!   \n\n")

f14 = None
solution_color = 'black'

try:
   if argv[1] == '-test':
     solution_color = 'blue'
except:
   pass
app = Application()
app.mainloop()


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 19 22:46:06 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:46:06 -0400
Subject: Turning a string into an programatic mathematical expression
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5204.1098239457.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5204.1098239457.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sokdd.782$si.190@lakeread04>

Daniel Bickett wrote:

> The title really says it all. I'm trying to take input from a user
> (intended to be a mathematical expression), from a text box for
> example, and evaluate it mathematically within the program. For
> clarification: the user inputs the string "4*5(3-3)", I would be
> interested in a straight-forward way to find the result of that, based
> only on a string. The follow-up question would be how to incorporate
> variables into the mix, however I'll leave it at that for now. Thanks
> for your time :)
> 
> Daniel Bickett

Well, you can simply use input(), a horrendously dangerous function that 
was designed (if that's the right word) in less security-minded times to 
allow users to enter expressions which would be made available to the 
program:

 >>> print input("What: ")
What: 4*5*(3-3)
0
 >>> print input("What: ")
What: 24+35/7
29
 >>>

Don't know whether this will help. It's also possible to use variables 
in your expressions:

 >>> a=33
 >>> b=15.5
 >>> print input("What: ")
What: a/b
2.12903225806
 >>>

Note that the inputs must be valid Python expressions, which 
unfortunately removes the possiblity of your implied multiplication:

 >>> print input("What: ")
What: 4*5(3-3)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<string>", line 0, in ?
TypeError: 'int' object is not callable
 >>>

If this isn't going to help you then I'm afraid you'll have to get down 
and dirty by parsing the expressions and evaluating them in detail.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sat Oct  9 22:05:27 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 22:05:27 -0400
Subject: Init a table of functions
In-Reply-To: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>
Message-ID: <416898E7.1090705@cloudthunder.com>

Well, I tried self and it said the same as with foo.  So I just called 
f1() and f2() without self or foo in front since they should be within 
scope and it worked to that extent but complained further, see below:

File 
"C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py", 
line 310, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "..\My Documents\CODE\test_dumpscript.py", line 20, in ?
    main()
  File "..\My Documents\CODE\test_dumpscript.py", line 16, in main
    foo.K["f1"]()
TypeError: 'staticmethod' object is not callable
 >>>


> How do I program something like the folowing program?
> PYTHON claims it doesn't know about 'foo' when initializing K!
> The only way I got this to work was doing the init of K in
> the __init__ func. But this runs everytime for each object!
> When using the name of the function without 'foo', I don't
> know how to call it!
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> #! /bin/env python
> # -*- coding: iso-8859-15 -*-
>
> class foo:
>     def f1():
>         print "f1"
>     f1=staticmethod(f1)
>
>     def f2():
>         print "f2"
>     f2=staticmethod(f2)
>
>     K={"f1" : foo.f1, \
>        "f1" : foo.f2  \
>     }
>
>
> def main():
>     foo.K["f1"]()
>     foo.K["f2"]()
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     main()




From esj at harvee.org  Mon Oct 25 22:18:11 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:18:11 -0400
Subject: speedier cgi and perf monitoring
In-Reply-To: <20041025113145.0B10.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <pan.2004.10.25.12.45.39.951966@thomas-guettler.de>	<417D1A0E.7050604@harvee.org>
	<20041025113145.0B10.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <clkc2m$gbq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
  > Don't use profiling tools.  Do manual profiling via time.time() calls
> (which provides wall-clock time). Start coarse, and narrow down your
> search each iteration.

I appreciate the kindness of your suggestion and I will hope you will 
understand when I say it's a sucky option but one I will have to live with.

---eric



From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 18 11:37:20 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:37:20 -0300
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <m3pt3gca1b.fsf@g2ctech.com>

"Riccardo Rossi" <riccardo.rorssi76 at email.it> writes:

> Hi all!
>
> How does Python pass arguments to a function? By value or by reference?

IIRC, by reference.  It uses a copy on write algorithm. 

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct  5 08:08:08 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:08:08 GMT
Subject: Still more performance chatter (was: New to Python: Features)
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <02da32-egv.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>interoperates smoothly with Python and does "compile down to C").  If
>you don't need portability, C's speed isn't optimal anyway; psyco (a
>just-in-time optimizer for Python) can sometimes beat C by going
>directly to machine language (but it only works for intel and compatible
>CPUs, not for example for the PowerPC chips used in Apple's Mac
>computers -- that is the downside, of course).
			.
			.
			.
Moreover, "speed of language" is ill-defined.  For the 
applications that interest Alex and me, C is often con-
siderably slower than, say, Python and Lisp and Haskell,
because the executables produced by typical teams using
those latter three languages (for example) to meet fixed
requirements frequently perform *better* than the C-coded
executables produced by comparable teams meeting the same
requirements using C.


From nelson at crynwr.com  Mon Oct  4 10:45:54 2004
From: nelson at crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 07:45:54 -0700
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
Message-ID: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>

Jef Raskin (namedropping) has pointed me at a neat scheme for quoting
arbitrary textual matter called "Mandis quotes".  Since google is
ignorant of the phrase, I presume that Jef made it up.  It is
disgustingly simple, and very Pythonesque.  Here's how it works: If
you have a string that doesn't have any single quotes in it, you
surround the string by a pair of doubled single quotes.  ''Like
this''.  No backslash interpolation.  If you want a character in
there, you put it in there (yes, I know, stand down your armies).
Clearly, then, any character except a single quote can go into one of
these strings.  If you need to put a single quote in, then you put
an arbitrary string in-between the single quotes which does NOT
appear in the string.  For example, "Bill's house" becomes
'x'Bill's house'x'.

More formally, a mandis quote is a pair of tokens surrounding a
completely arbitrary sequence of bytes.  These tokens are comprised of
a possibly null sequence of characters preceded by and followed by a
single quote.

To save time, here's why this pre-PEP proposal sucks in decreasing
order of severity:

o Python source is typically represented, not as an arbitrary string
  of ASCII or Unicode characters, but instead as a sequence of lines
  separated by the native line terminator (e.g. CRLF, LF, or CR).

o Editors are not all up to the task of inserting arbitrary
  characters into strings (although they SHOULD).

o Email cannot withstand arbitrary strings of characters (although
  quoted-printable suffices).

o Some distinct Unicode characters are represented using the same
  glyph, so that information is lost when text gets printed (but
  that's more of a Unicode stupidism.)

Obviously, the justification for it is that it eliminates ", ', r",
r', """, and ''' from the syntax, replacing them by a single 'x' that
suffices for everything.  Makes the code easier to read (only one
visual element), easier to parse, and easier to write, because you
don't need to decide which literal method to use.


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Wed Oct  6 11:49:46 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:49:46 +0100
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck146t$6r5$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Andr? N?ss wrote:

> One thing I liked about Lisp was the ability to use the question mark
> (and the exclamation mark) in function names. I found this
> particularily useful when checking boolean properties of a object like
> for example myObj.isContextSet. It just feels so much more natural to
> write myObj.contextSet?
> 
> I also found it neat that destructive operations were clearly marked
> with !.
> 
> Is there anything preventing this from being possible in Python?

The fact that Guido has different aesthetic preferences than you do? And 
personally I would call it obj.is_context_set() so we have different 
preferences too <wink>.

Actually, the "Pythonic" way of doing it might be to do a try/except 
block that assumes it's a context set. Another alternative is to just 
have an attribute called context_set, which could actually be a 
descriptor that calls another function...

> One of the things I really love about Python is the way it feels when
> I type it. It just comes completely natural to write "for foo in bar"
> and then push the colon, all those curly braces on the other hand
> always feel awkward.

Me too.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Fri Oct  1 16:33:39 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:33:39 +0100
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<415d9229$0$18966$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <yfsacv6i3fg.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:

> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
>> 1. ``os.system`` (and co): Shouldn't ``os.system``'s signature really be
>>    ``os.system(cmd, arg1, arg2,...)`` rather than ``os.system(some_string)``?
>
> No. This is a direct exposition of the system(3) function of the C
> library, and has precisely the same interface like this function.
> Use os.spawnv for what you want.

OK, but let me say that this is *not* obvious -- it is difficult to find in
the docs (I don't really want to spawn anything and it's burried amongst a
zillion cryptically named similar functions with a complex interface) and
difficult to use.

So I think many (most?) people will use os.system instead and in a way that is
broken. If changing system is a bad idea, how about introducing a convenience
function or adding a note to the os.system docs?


>> 2. pydoc's handling of overriden methods without docstrings: I really think it
>>    should show the documentation of the method in the baseclass; the current
>>    behavior really sucks when working with things like backends.
>
> Feel free to contribute a patch.

I would if I hadn't trouble with sf.net. I'll try again over the weekend but
if someone else would like to submit it, it's appended below.

>
>> I currently use this to run e.g. latex, but it doesn't seem to work absolutely
>> reliably and is unix only. I'm pretty sure there must be a better way.
>
> I don't think there is.
>
> Regards,
> Martin

*** pydoc.py.old	Fri Oct  1 19:14:54 2004
--- pydoc.py	Fri Oct  1 21:29:42 2004
***************
*** 72,78 ****
      return dirs
  
  def getdoc(object):
      """Get the doc string or comments for an object."""
!     result = inspect.getdoc(object) or inspect.getcomments(object)
      return result and re.sub('^ *\n', '', rstrip(result)) or ''
  
--- 72,103 ----
      return dirs
  
+ _method_types = (staticmethod, classmethod, types.MethodType,
+                 types.BuiltinMethodType, types.FunctionType)
+ def _getdoc_helper(thing):
+     """Like `inspect.getdoc` but for methods with no documentation it
+        retrieves the documentation from a baseclasses corresponding method, if
+        possible."""
+     if inspect.getdoc(thing):
+          return inspect.getdoc(thing)
+     else:
+         def find_method_doc(c, name):
+             v = c.__dict__.get(name)
+             return isinstance(v, _method_types) and inspect.getdoc(v)
+         if isinstance(thing, _method_types):
+             try:
+                 the_class = thing.im_class
+                 func_name = thing.im_func.func_name
+                 for c in inspect.getmro(the_class)[1:]:
+                     if find_method_doc(c, func_name):
+                         return find_method_doc(c, func_name)
+                 return None
+             except AttributeError, msg:
+                 print >> sys.stderr,\
+                       "Couldn't get doc from baseclass for %s: %s" % (thing, msg)
+         return None
+     
  def getdoc(object):
      """Get the doc string or comments for an object."""
!     result = _getdoc_helper(object) or inspect.getcomments(object)
      return result and re.sub('^ *\n', '', rstrip(result)) or ''
  


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 08:24:25 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:24:25 -0300
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.20.01.27.52.116416@cs.wisc.edu>
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.20.01.27.52.116416@cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <864d370904102005244347e20c@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:27:53 -0500, Paramjit Oberoi <param at cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
> > Since then I've been playing around with this... not the parsing part (which
> > so far I have completely ignored) but the programmer interface. There needs
> > to be a well-thought-out data model for the information stored, and the user
> > interface needs to be very easy to use, yet not so "magical" that it becomes
> > difficult to understand.
> 
> >From the me-too department:
> 
> For me personally, the problems with ConfigParser were inconvenient value
> access/update and lack of order-preservation by the INI parser/writer.  I
> have developed my own solution which:
> 
> * Is convenient: both attribute access as well as container syntax can be
> used to access as well as update values:
> 
>    from cfgparse.iniparser import ini_namespace
>    conf = ini_namespace()
>    conf.user.name = 'Oberoi'
>    print conf['user']['name']
>    'Oberoi'
> 
> * Preserves order/indentation/spacing when the INI file is updated and
> when the data is accessed.
> 
> * I have given some thought to the data model and interface question, but
> probably not as much as you.  The data model simply is that of arbitrarily
> nested namespaces, each containing values (although each specific
> implementation of the model can have it's own restrictions - for example,
> INI files don't allow top-level values).  The abstract model/interface
> allos conversion from one config format to another.
> 
> * I have some code written using the ConfigParser API which I didn't want
> to have to update, so an API-compatible interface is also available which
> implements the old interface, as well as allowing access to the new one.
> 
> The code can be found here:
> 
> http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~param/software/cfgparse/
> 
> -param
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Wed Oct 20 16:02:21 2004
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:02:21 -0400
Subject: String changing on the fly
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5235.1098294536.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com>	<m2brexcorb.fsf@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>
	<mailman.5235.1098294536.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jvzdd.40$N92.22@fe61.usenetserver.com>

John Hunter wrote:

> class PerlString(str):
>     def __str__(self):
> 
>         rgx = re.compile('\$(\w+)')
>         fmt = re.sub('\$(\w+)', self.dollar_replace, self)
>         return fmt%globals()
> 
>     def dollar_replace(self, matchobj):
>         return '%(' + matchobj.group(1) + ')s'
> 
> s = PerlString('$first paid cost $T dollars')
> 
> 
> T = 2
> first = 'John'
> print s
> 
> T = 5
> first = 'Bill'
> print s

Mooi hoor, but this only works for global variables.  It won't work with 
variables inside a function, unless you extend the function to pass in 
locals.

Maybe something like this would be a reasonable alternative:

 >>> T = 2
 >>> first = 'Bill'
 >>> def makestr(*args):
...     args = map(str, args)
...     return ''.join(args)
...
 >>> makestr("My name is ", first, " and I paid $", T, " dollars")
'My name is Bill and I paid $2 dollars'

--Hans



From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Tue Oct  5 13:22:20 2004
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:22:20 -0300
Subject: re bug
In-Reply-To: <87hdp94cc4.fsf@thomas.local>
References: <3e96ebd7.0410050057.29a15174@posting.google.com>
	<87hdp94cc4.fsf@thomas.local>
Message-ID: <20041005172220.GA20805@burma.localdomain>

> '''
> (?:^|\ )
> (?P<ALLES>
>    (?:
>       [^/ ]*/[^/ ]*/
>       (?:                 # why a group?
>          cn
>          (?: :[^/ #]+ )*
[...]

That's not the same regular expression. You must escape whitespaces
when using re.VERBOSE.

> Judging from the number of '*' and '+' quantifiers, the long search
> time may be due to excessive backtracking as the regexp engine tries
> to find a match.

The problem is not just the number of repeating qualifiers, but
the nesting of them. Nesting repeating qualifiers deeply is a good
way to kill regular expression engines.

Try this example:

re.search("a(((.)*c)*d)*e", "abcdf"*20)

Also, if you're curious enough, try to replace 20 by 10, and
increase it one at a time.

Btw, the only reason that the OP's expression didn't got stuck
in the first two test cases is because the expression matched.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 10 18:03:08 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:03:08 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.10.16.48.24.930075@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <4169982d.4238722751@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:25:16 GMT, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:30:32 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> While I agree with your points, they're immaterial to the
>> argument I was making.  The poster to which I responded was
>> arguing that "xor" didn't make sense because having it coerce
>> it's arguments to booleans was "wrong".
>
>I didn't say "wrong", I said "non-obvious".
>
>And, with respect, the fact that you have to argue your point is evidence
>in my favor. Of course "proof" would require a comprehensive survey, and I
>think we can all agree this point isn't worth such effort :-)
>
>But I do think that a bitwise operator should silently transform to a
>logical operator for strings is not obvious.
>
>What is 388488839405842L ^ "hello"?
>
>Python says that's an "unsupported operand type(s) for ^: 'long' and
>'str'". Why is it wrong?
I agree it is not wrong. The user is reminded that s/he should be explicit
and create a type that behaves as desired. However (;-) ...

What's right about accepting 3^7 ? Why should xor be defined for integers?
IMO we have implicit subtyping of integers as vectors or column matrices
of bools and operations element by element and implicit re-presentation
of the result as integer.

This dual interpretation of course reflects CPU hardware functionality, and
I would argue that familiarity (not to mention the expediency of conciseness)
has bred acceptance of operator notation without explicit cruft such as
int(boolvec(3)^boolvec(7)) instead of 3^7. The trouble is that a boolvec
should have a length, and boolvec(3) really hides implicit determination of length
(by dropping sign bits of unsigned value or extending signed integer sign bits infinitely),
and the ^ operation between boolvecs of different length hides implicit normalization to
the length of the longer (or infinity with compressed representation)). Again,
CPU hardware legacy comes into play, with the hidden imposition of length=32, sometimes
64 now, and we are forced (happily IMO) into defining what we mean in terms of
physical-representation-independent abstractions.

So the question becomes

    What is boolvec(388488839405842L) ^ boolvec("hello")?

and boolvec("hello") is the more ambiguous one. If we wrote

    boolvec("hello", as_bytes=True)

I think most would have an idea of what it meant -- until they
started to think about endianness ;-) I.e., what is the value of the following?

    (boolvec("hello", asbytes=True) & boolvec(0xffff)).as_string() #note '&' for simpler example

should it be

    "he\x00\x00\x00"

or do you see it as big-endian

    "\x00\x00\x00lo"

and should "sign" bits be dropped, so the result would be "he" or "lo" ?
Or -- should boolvec("hello") default to boolvec(bool("hello"), length=1) ?

>
>This would also work if Python were more like C++ and we could define
>
>xor(string, string)
>xor(int, int) 
>
>and be done with it, but in Python, there should be an obvious meaning for
>int ^ string, and there isn't.

Notice that no one complains about intgr^intgr
not being defined as int(bool(intgr)^bool(intgr)) ?;-)

>
>It is also true that I recommended the OP consider subclassing string to
>make ^ do what he wants. But it seems to be reasonably well expected that
>while user classes can do what they like with operators (as long as they
>are willing to pay the sometimes-subtle prices, especially the ones
>involved with poorly defining __cmp__), that the core language should not
>do such things.
Except where there is an accepted legacy of such things being done already ;-)

BTW, what is the rationale behind this:

 >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count(0)
 3
 >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count(())
 1
 >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count([])
 1
 >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count('')
 1
 >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count(0.0)
 3
 >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count(0L)
 3

BTW2, just had the thought that ',' could be generalized as an operator. E.g.,

    obj, x

would mean

    type(obj).__dict__['__comma__'](obj, x)

unless __comma__ was undefined. And you could have __rcomma__ for x, obj.
Returning the same type object would support multiple commas as in obj, x, y

Of course, you would get interesting effects in such contexts as print obj,x,y
and foo(obj,x,y) or even (obj,x,y) vs (obj,x,y,) vs ((obj,x,y),) ;-)

Probably sequence-building should have priority and be overridden by parenthesized
expression. So print obj,x would be effectively be print str(obj),x and
print (obj,x,y) would be print str(type(obj).__dict__['__comma__'](obj,x)).
Similarly for arg list formation.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jdadson at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 16:01:40 2004
From: jdadson at yahoo.com (Jive Dadson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:01:40 GMT
Subject: Job postings
References: <41634A6E.D0A49DCD@yahoo.com> <7xpt3wtvci.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <41644F87.6F87F2D0@yahoo.com>



Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> Jive Dadson <jdadson at yahoo.com> writes:
> > Where can I post a job description for a Python programmer?  He or she
> > would have to know both application programming in Python, and should be
> > able to port Python to a "friendly" operating system.
> 
> I think you just posted one.  What's the target OS?  Where's the job?

The company is in San Jose, CA.  The OS is a OnTime RTOS-32.


From nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net  Wed Oct  6 17:05:53 2004
From: nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net (Nicola Larosa)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:05:53 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gl6dqy.17aec2n1uecu0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.4340.1096988457.5135.python-list@python.org>	<55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4356.1096994017.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<XBB8d.3546$M05.2157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ck1mnc$chc$3@newsreader.mailgate.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>> Really?  Well, I never took computer science so I guess I wouldn't
>> exactly know.  What's the point of making them write a report?

> To get experience in being able to evaluate a language
> and compare it to other languages.  Get them used to the
> idea of reading the documentation, FAQ, tutorials and
> other sorts of works that accompany a language.
> 
> You might want to try it some day.

ROTFL!

Would this be best catalogued under "Snide Remark" or "British Humour"? ;-)

- -- 
Nicola Larosa - nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net

Python gives you enough rope to hang yourself, but you have to know where
to look. Its land has a dearth of trees, branches or posts to use the rope
to actually hang yourself. And the landscape is so beautiful we don't even
notice most of the time. :) -- Chris on comp.lang.python, July 2004

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFBZF4xXv0hgDImBm4RAqUNAJ9KsKKGYAPxL0MP5LyzerFbyHT6zACggDcO
3BpysbV6xPPtP5UBGWHGavo=
=taTx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From i_cute33 at hotmail.com  Sun Oct  3 18:25:34 2004
From: i_cute33 at hotmail.com (John Cuteaux)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 00:25:34 +0200
Subject: Learn French in the Alps.
Message-ID: <41607c5e$0$25456$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

To learn French in France, I found this great school, located both in Annecy and Chamb?ry, in the heart of the Alps. Given the number of activities and the surroundings I thought I would share this ressource with others.

http://www.ifalpes.com

Let me know if you have any good education portal ressources. Thanks.




From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Oct  6 05:42:17 2004
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 02:42:17 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4287.1096945195.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10m5t1rbirngjd0@corp.supernews.com> <41631C00.2020209@fastmail.fm>
	<10m6f8rbqe4h232@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <5339b60d.0410060142.5dece2b5@posting.google.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message news:<10m6f8rbqe4h232 at corp.supernews.com>...
> 
> Often, someone wants to use a particular syntax feature out of 
> familiarity, rather than because it's really the best fit for the job at 
> hand.  This is particularly true when coming to a new language; one 
> naturally wants to continue programming in the style of the language(s) 
> one already knows, but that style may be completely inappropriate for 
> the new language.  Others have shown you how to force Python into the 
> style that you're used to; I'm suggesting alternative styles that will 
> fit better with the way that Python normally works.  It's almost always 
> better to use Python idioms when coding in Python, Scheme idioms when 
> coding in Scheme, and Java idioms when coding in Java, than it is to try 
> to write Python using Scheme idioms.

I've not been following this thread, so some of my comments may be a
bit out of context, but I can imagine using macros for situations
where I don't want to emulate some other language's syntax or
conventions. Here's an example:

I wrote a wrapper about the libxml2 module [1] in order to expose a
traditional DOM-style API. However, the wrapper introduces an overhead
which would make programs which use lots of classic DOM-style
operations run much slower than without the wrapper (almost to the
point of being as slow as other Python DOM packages). Now I don't
really care about the performance of DOM-intensive programs because
I'm using the wrapper as a convenient means of editing documents
before libxslt processes them, but given that libxml2 is one of the
faster DOM implementations, it would be nice to retain that
performance whilst exposing a more conventional API.

Now, if Python had macros (and I mean macros in the sense that Lisp
people presumably mean macros) I could write DOM-style code and have
that transformed to libxml2-style code before runtime. The only issue
with such a suggestion is that for this to happen automatically, some
awareness of object types is necessary before runtime by the
macro/transformation engine, but even if this is difficult in the
general case, I still believe that some kind of limited type inference
system could make it possible.

Paul

[1] http://www.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&name=libxml2dom


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct  1 11:03:51 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:03:51 GMT
Subject: getrecursiondepth
In-Reply-To: <of3ql0t8760ug3ql6k8k58gliddu5logo4@4ax.com>
References: <27eal09cb6ggho5gbstgkbmvgillnova08@4ax.com>
	<cj3rd9$i9j$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<qebbl0l43c891b21udregn2pvj3phbfp90@4ax.com>
	<yMn5d.9974$gG4.9921@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<lf1dl0tqo6kui5gi2qmhgdqq0qdqfeqei0@4ax.com>
	<6fD5d.10550$gG4.6048@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<lhifl0969k5s8c87b9cg2pqrbe3in9oiv3@4ax.com>
	<Igg6d.12242$gG4.6109@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<bnfol0tf2q7e5d48p3pccs19c3ns6m6nme@4ax.com>
	<of3ql0t8760ug3ql6k8k58gliddu5logo4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <rle7d.131$UP1.53@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Manlio Perillo wrote:
>>>>def foo2(n = 0):
> 
>        if pystate.firstlevel_call():
> 	   foo2.recursiondepth = 0
>        else:
>            foo2.recursiondepth += 1
> 	    
>        #print 'n = %s, recursion depth = %s' % (n,
> foo2.recursiondepth)
>        if n == 5: return
>        foo2(n + 1)

In addition, if you aren't supporting threads
then the following will also work.

def foo3(n=0):
   foo3.recursiondepth += 1
   try:
     if n == 5: return
     foo3(n+1)
   finally:
     foo3.recursiondepth -= 1

foo3.recursiondepth = 0

% timeit.py -s "import spam" "spam.foo2()"
10000 loops, best of 3: 70.8 usec per loop
% timit.py -s "import spam" "spam.foo3()"
10000 loops, best of 3: 47.6 usec per loop

Still, the fastest solution, which is also
concise, thread-safe and portable (meaning
that can be easily translated to other
languages) is

def _foo4(n, depthlimit):
     if depthlimit == 0: return
     _foo4(n+1, depthlimit-1)

def foo4(n=0):
     _foo4(n, 5)


% timeit.py -s "import spam" "spam.foo4()"
100000 loops, best of 3: 16.4 usec per loop


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 31 14:42:00 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:42:00 GMT
Subject: List problem
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.5668.1099072329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<v2m9o0d7d1v3h4doumfkmb4djk41u0gb9c@4ax.com>
	<1gmiyon.jvyq1w1ob9r59N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41853d5f.1278687054@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:28:39 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>User <1 at 2.3> wrote:
>   ...
>> >In general, removing elements from a list while you're iterating though
>> >the list is a bad idea.  Perhaps a better solution is a list
>> >comprehension:
>> 
>> Unless you're using a while loop and iterating in reverse, for
>> example:
>> 
>> a = [0,1,2,3,4]
>> pos_max = len(a) - 1  # Maximum iterable element
>> pos = pos_max         # Current element
>> while pos >= 0:
>>       if a[pos] == 2:
>>               a.remove(2)
>>               pos_max = pos_max - 1
>>       pos = pos - 1
>
>Still a bad idea.
>
>    a[:] = [x for x in a if x != 2]
>
>is more concise, idiomatic, and speedy.  No reason to do low-level
>twiddling with indices and fiddly loops, in cases where a list
>comprehension can do the job so simply.
>
Except maybe if the list is huge, and you don't want to generate a duplicate, e.g.,

 >>> a = [1,2,3,2,4,5]
 >>> a
 [1, 2, 3, 2, 4, 5]
 >>> i = 0
 >>> for x in a:
 ...     if x != 2:
 ...         a[i] = x
 ...         i += 1
 ...
 >>> del a[i:]
 >>> a
 [1, 3, 4, 5]

Should also be faster for large lists, IWT.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 16:46:58 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:46:58 +0200
Subject: backslash plague
References: <2tt4b2F24cffeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1gm2tuh.sg3fl11rm2newN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2tt5t0F24460hU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1gm2xu6.1fu6r36221xs6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Luis P. Mendes <luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt> wrote:

> So, the trick is to put the r in front of the string?!

If you want a literal string with backslashes in it, you either double
each backslash or use a rawliteral (r in front).

> y='R0\1.2646\1.2649\D'

the third character of y, \1, is in this case the byte with value 1 in
the ASCII code, etc.  Apparently that's not what you want.

But is this string going to be a literal in your code, rather than, say,
read from a file?  Sounds unlikely.  When you read from a file there's
no escape-sequence interpretation, so the issue of how to write
literals, raw or otherwise, is irrelevant there.


Alex


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct  9 22:56:28 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 22:56:28 -0400
Subject: help me
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4646.1097373842.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>	<3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>
	<mailman.4646.1097373842.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hZidnVmZ96NBOfXcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>

dataangel wrote:
> Marius Bernklev wrote:
>> chrispatton at gmail.com (Chris Patton) writes:
>>> Hey everybody. I am writing a program that requires the user to make
>>> the name for variables inside the program. For example:
>>>>>> exec raw_input()+' = 34'
>>>
>>> However, I don't want to have to use the "exec" statement. Thanks for
>>> any help!
>> Are you sure you don't want to use a plain dict for this?  And if so, 
>> why?
>>
> Why don't you want to use exec? Just curious. That's the normal way to 
> get a string to python code as far as I know.

No, it's not the normal way, it's the crude and insecure way.

The normal way is to use the string as a key to a dictionary,
perhaps locals() or globals(), as Marius appears to be
suggesting.

Like regular expressions, in the hands of a beginner exec
and eval() lead to code that is one or more of dangerous,
unreadable, unmaintainable, awkward, or just plain sloppy.

-Peter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 14:54:21 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:54:21 +0200
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>


On 2004 Oct 18, at 16:57, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
    ...
> def walk(self):
>    """generator-based recursive tree traversal"""
>    yield child
>    for child in childs:

Btw, what are this 'child' and 'childs', _globals_?  I assume you must 
mean something like self and self.children, but as that may become 
important in further discussion it would be nice to be more precise in 
the example.

>         transfer child.walk()
>
> It's quite weird -- a generator plus a direct flow-of-execution
> transfer. It's not a goto, its not a co-routine... It requires a new
> keyword ('transfer', in this case), which _is_ a real problem --

How does the semantics of this differ from those of
          for x in child.walk(): yield x
?  I don't know what a "direct flow of execution transfer" _is_, since 
when the 'transfer' is finished execution had better come back here.  
So, I fail to appreciate the difference, if any, between:
     for x in y: yield x
and
     transfer y
which is just the same thing I had mentioned (under guise of 'yieldall' 
in lieu of 'transfer', but that's mere sugar) in the post you're 
replying to.  And I think that a combination such as
     yield from y
besides not requiring a new keyword might be even more readable.  I'm 
using y as just a placeholder here, it would be "yield from 
child.walk()" in your case.

If the issue is strictly one of whether it's worth somehow making
     for x in y: yield x
terser (by a new kw, combination of kw, and/or punctuation) I guess we 
can discuss that (I just don't see the gain to offset the price of 
introducing new syntax and one more language thing to learn for 
Pythonistas and newcomers to Python).  If you mean something different 
for your 'transfer' then maybe you could clarify _what_...


Alex



From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Tue Oct  5 09:06:18 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:06:18 +0200
Subject: Database Connectivity
In-Reply-To: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <41629C4A.2040506@cenix-bioscience.com>

Sandeep Avinash Gohad wrote:

>  
>Hi
>
>I want to develope a simple Database connectivity program with python.
>I want to use MS Access as a backend.
>Please guide me....
>If any e-books,links available particularly for database connectivity
>then please let me know
>
>Regards
>Sandeep
>  
>
First, consider if you really want to use MS Access for this.  In my 
experience, this is mostly asking for trouble as Access is poorly 
documented and has many bugs and misfeatures you will waste your time 
working around.  In addition, Access DBs are prone to corruption if 
accessed by many users at once.  PostgreSQL is a much more powerful 
alternative, and version 8.0, coming soon, will run natively on 
Windows.  Of course, it is not as "user friendly" in the sense of having 
pretty GUI tools, but since it sounds like you will be writing the GUI 
in Python anyway, this may not matter.

If you are going to use Access, Python Programming on Win32 by Mark 
Hammond and Andy Robinson is an essential reference.

Aaron



From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 00:05:30 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 21:05:30 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>

> The question is how small is small? Less than 2**7? Less than 2**15? 
> Less than 2**31? Less than 2**63? And what's the significance of powers 
> of two? And what happens if you move from a 32 bit machine to a 64 bit 
> one? (or a 1024 bit one in a hundred years time?)

less than 2**31 most of the time & hardly ever greater than 2**63 - no
matter if my machine is 32-bit, 64-bit or 1024-bit. the required range
depends on the data   u want 2 store in the variable & not on the
hardware.


>  > PEP 237 says, "It will give new Python programmers [...] one less
>  > thing to learn [...]". i feel this is not so important as the quality
>  > of code a programmer writes once he does learn the language.
> 
> The thing is, the int/long cutoff is arbitrary, determined soley by 
> implemetation detail. 

agreed, but it need not be that way. ints can be defined to be 32-bit
(or 64-bit) on all architectures.


> A much better idea is the judicious use of assertions.
> 
> assert x < 15000
> 
> Not only does it protect you from runaway numbers, it also documents 
> what the expected range is, resulting in a much better "quality of code"

such an assertion must be placed before avery assignment to the
variable - & that's tedious. moreover, it can give u a false sense of
security when u think u have it wherever needed but u've forgotten it
somewhere.

a 32-bit limit is a crude kind of assertion that u get for free, and
one u expect should hold for most variables. for those few variables
it doesn't, u can use a long.

-kartik


From maur at mdi.ca  Thu Oct 28 15:22:25 2004
From: maur at mdi.ca (Dekaritae)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:22:25 -0700
Subject: Python equivalent of LWP and HTTP in Perl
Message-ID: <vAbgd.24$SJ2.18@fe61.usenetserver.com>

I have a script that I've written in Perl that retrieves files generated 
from a template. It works decently enough, but I'd like to rewrite it in 
Python (Perl was just a detour; it was originally Sed).

Was wondering what the closest thing to what I'm using now in Perl 
(LWP::UserAgent and HTTP::Request:Common) is in Python. The main bit of 
my code is fairly simple.

   my($ua) = LWP::UserAgent->new;
   my $req = GET "$uri";
   $req->header(Referer => "$referer");
   $ua->proxy('http', 'http://localhost:8080/'); # Proxomitron
   $response = $ua->request($req);
   $respcode = $response->code;



From neil.benn at arcor.de  Sun Oct  3 17:43:45 2004
From: neil.benn at arcor.de (Neil Benn)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 23:43:45 +0200
Subject: Python in Process Control?
Message-ID: <41607291.8020003@arcor.de>

Hello,

      Comments beneath :

Peter L Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message 
news:<AcadnZxtQPvH9cDcRVn-sg at powergate.ca>...
<snip>
 > I meant to mention, but only barely implied, that the source is
 > actually available, on Engenuity's project page.  It was a
 > Cavro RSP9000 robot.

Oh, how long ago was that as far as I know that model was discontinued a 
long time ago.  I skipped a few of them myself (there's nothing wrong 
with the machine - it's just an old model and not up to today's standards).

<snip>
 > I use the terms "industrial control" and "automation" rather
 > interchangeably, along with "laboratory robotics" and other
 > terms.  It's all the same thing, regardless of the end user,
 > except when regulatory issues get involved (aeronautics, FDA
 > approvals, etc).

Hmm, not sure about that - you need to look at the process it is being 
used in and the cost of downtime.  In addition you also have to consider 
the end users  and the cost of a lost unit - this is why people talk 
about industrial automation in a lab setting with no concept of what 
they mean, in the field of laboratory automaiton industrial automation 
is typically used as a marketing slogan!! 

  In life science unit cost is an awkward indicator as it is very 
difficult to put a cost on a lost unit - it could be nothing, it could 
be billions!!  If you are interested in this field then there is an 
active mailing list on laboratory automation, you can access it trhough 
the american link of www.lab-robotics.org or the European link 
www.elrig.org.
 >
 > >    IMHO, I think that Python is not a suitable piece of software for
 > > industrial control as it has poor support for bytes (a string 
shouldn't
 > > be used to store bytes!) and also bit twiddling is difficult 
(people who
 > > ask about his on the Python newsgroup are usually shouted at). 
 >
 > Well, let me see how to answer this politely. :-)  What you *think*
 > and what is reality are not necessarily the same thing. ;-)  No,
 > the more polite answer is really that this is an area where perhaps
 > it's more a matter of opinion than anything else, and mine differs
 > from yours.

  Yep, that's why I put IMHO - don't get me wrong, I have used python 
for control and it has good sides and bad sides - like everything in 
life!  I j

 >
 > Python certainly has *excellent* ("perfect"?) support for manipulating
 > bytes, and if you consider that a string is not a string, but is
 > actually a sequence of bytes, then other than being misnamed for
 > this application area, a string provides great support for bytes...
 > certainly *in practice* it works wonderfully, and I guess as someone
 > who has used Python very successfully for industrial control I'm
 > somewhat qualified to say so.

I've also got python running controlling a bunch of kit - as for byte 
support, sorry but a byte array should not have the ability to be 
changed into upper case unless it represents characters - which bytes 
patently do not.  I know it works in python but it's an incorrect 
metaphor.  In the same way that a string is not a bunch of 8 bit chars 
(encoding.decoding etc).  Although yep, if you ignore the fact that it 
is a string, with the string stuff tagged onto the side then you can go 
ahead and use it with gay abandon.

 >
 > As for bit-twiddling, it's rarer than you might think to have to
 > do more than the odd shift, OR, and AND masking, and maybe an
 > exclusive-OR or two for spice, and Python is well enough suited that
 > this isn't really an issue.  Performance-wise, if you have to do
 > such things to a very high-bandwidth stream of data, it might run
 > into troubles, but (a) there are options, and (b) it hasn't bothered
 > me yet...

If I can't twiddle bits correctly - I'm a bit stuck if I need to make a 
check sum from the bits in a byte array.  The RSP9000 doesn't require 
that sort of thing (or so I thought but I controlled the RSP9000 using 
the Turbo Pascal interface supplied with the machine rather than direct 
RS232 commands) but other kit does.  Also in my experience (~1 decade 
controlling and managing lab autoamtion) bit twiddling is something I've 
had to do a few times - it just depends on the interface supplied by the 
manufacturer.  Java's not much better at this either - I ended up 
writing a bit twiddling class to handle this - it's just that most 
business apps don't need bit twiddling so it's fallen out of popularity.
 >
 > I was going to show an example from the Cavro code mentioned above,
 > but all it took was a few | and & operations and it's too boring
 > to show.

Nope I'm a geek!!  I couldn't find it on your website though.

 >
 > > The
 > > other thing that is a problem for python in this is that it is very
 > > difficult in python to make your your client is aware of all the 
errors
 > > that you can throw and as you know, when controlling equipment 
there is
 > > a lot of things that are out of your control (an exception that is
 > > rarely thrown will often not be caught if the programmer never sees it
 > > running and gets lazy).   
 >
 > Absolutely!  Uncaught exceptions would be a real pain to a customer.
 >
 > So would untested code.
 >
By client - I mean client calling my code; not a customer - a checked 
exception is an excellent way of making the client calling code writer 
think about these errors.  People who are unused to controlling machines 
are often unaware of the lack of control you have over yuor environment. 
  However, test driven development is a tool that is used in many 
languages - not just python.  Certainly in the control of machines you 
must test and test again - however test driven development is a tool 
that can be used alongside a variety of other tools such as UML, checked 
exceptions and stress testing (that's what I call playing Doom3 while 
controlling the robot with your code).  TDD is not a magic wand, it's 
just common sense (to me anyway).
 >
 > > apps a little easier to write - although I still spent about 2 days
 > > trying to work out how to make a variable volatile (culminating in
 > > understanding the threading module!). 
 >
 > All variables are "volatile" in Python, at least in most senses of
 > the word.  I don't understand what you were doing...

Exactly, because python has a GIL and can only run in one processor a 
variable will never need to be marked as volatile.  In other systems 
this is something I would need to be concerned about - not in python!
<snip>
 > You might want to investigate the use of Twisted's serial module,
 > which wraps around PySerial and effectively provides this, instead
 > of doing the polling loop approach (which, by the way, I also used
 > in the Cavro code but might change to Twisted in a later version).

Cheers, I wrote a wrapper around PySerial to implement 
listeners/observers (that's what the polling loop does, Twisted probably 
does the same) - although if there is a published and supported 
implementation then I'll use that.

<snip>
 > Actually, we *did* use ActiveX, unfortunately, because that's what
 > the customer wanted to use to interface LabVIEW to the driver <snip>
LabView isn't a bad tool, the use of wiring metaphors appeals greatly to 
engineers (as you'v probably expereicend) - also it is (again IMO) one 
of the best graphical programming tools out there.  I don;t use it 
because I can program and flow control in LabView is a pain but that 
doesn;t stop me having an a look in every now and then.
 >
 > -Peter

  This is my second attempt at a response - so if you get two mails back 
then please forgive me!

Cheers,

Neil




From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 25 15:15:32 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:15:32 -0300
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <m31xfmwqwb.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Whatever gave you the idea you are obligated to provide support?!

One has such an obligation here in .br.  Our law demands that and a
license can't override what is stated in the law, so... 

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From yuan-feng at yfco.com  Sun Oct 31 10:49:48 2004
From: yuan-feng at yfco.com ( livesex)
Date: 31 Oct 2004 15:49:48 GMT
Subject: 24-hrs sex hotline live from China
Message-ID: <cm31is$4ta1745@imsp212.netvigator.com>

Free trial +86 13180152666



From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Wed Oct 27 13:57:57 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:57:57 +0200
Subject: High volume websites using Python web server software?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5568.1098892567.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <417ee2ab$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>	<clof9e$m19$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
	<mailman.5568.1098892567.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417fe1a5$1$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> I think he's talking about servers that server a higher-than-normal 
> number of simultaneous connections.

Well, not necessarily so, but this is an even better description.
I was looking for web sites with moderate visitor counts
(where 'high' means Yahoo, Google, Cnn, and 'low' means a
200-user forum about automobiles) that are running on one of Python's
web application servers / network servers.

If it's a site that uses an async I/O framework, and it actually
does sustains the potential very large amount of simultaneous
connections, even better.
Actually, it doesn't even have to be a web site. A 10.000-user IRC
server in Python would also qualify :)

Why am I asking this?
Someone on a programming forum elsewhere was sceptical that you
can create high performance Python network servers.
I suggested Twisted or Medusa. He asked for example servers.
So there you are :)


Anyway I've got a few pointers from the replies already given.
Thanks!


--Irmen.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 21 13:42:26 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:42:26 -0700
Subject: Method Underscores?
In-Reply-To: <CLRdd.26753$J16.1547943@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <YwRdd.231$N92.55@fe61.usenetserver.com>
	<CLRdd.26753$J16.1547943@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <20041021103706.0AB8.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
> 
> Hans Nowak wrote:
> > I suppose it might be clearer if one could write
> > 
> > def +(self, other):
> >     ...
> 
> And a syntax would be needed to get that function, that's why I like so 
> much the Python approach.  My only complain is that _somename_ would 
> probably have been enough instead of __somename__.  In C++, all 
> _[A-Z_].* are reserved, reserve _.*_ would have been enough in Python IMHO.


I personally like the double leading and trailing underscores.  They
jump out more.  Regardless, it is a little late to complain; unless one
wants to change the behavior in Py3k, but I think that most of those who
have a say in Py3k's development believe the double underscores were a
good idea.

  Josiah



From wheakorypersonal at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 15:45:58 2004
From: wheakorypersonal at yahoo.com (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:45:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python concatenation Question problem
Message-ID: <20041005194558.46244.qmail@web51909.mail.yahoo.com>

I have the the following string variable called mlist  that contains the value ccinfolist here is what I've tried to do to join this variable with another string value.
 
First attempt
 
url = http://www.isu.edu + mlist
 
error I receive:
TypeError: cannot add type "instance" to string mlist
 
 
another attempt for a process altogether then the one above
 
 return os.path.join('attachments', mlist, datedir, digest[:4] + digest[-4:])
 
error I receive 
 raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: __len__

 
I just starting to learn Python so I'm sure this is something simple, any suggestions?
 
 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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From kbk at shore.net  Thu Oct 14 23:48:43 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:48:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
Message-ID: <200410150348.i9F3mhO6013761@h006008a7bda6.ne.client2.attbi.com>

Patch / Bug Summary
___________________

Patches :  240 open ( -1) /  2655 closed (+15) /  2895 total (+14)
Bugs    :  766 open ( +0) /  4514 closed (+22) /  5280 total (+22)
RFE     :  155 open ( +1) /   131 closed ( +0) /   286 total ( +1)

New / Reopened Patches
______________________

True/False instead of 1/0 in libstdtypes.tex  (2004-10-06)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1041364  opened by  Gerrit Holl

bbetter document popenX 'cmd' argument  (2004-10-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1042705  opened by  Jeff Epler

broken TeX markup  (2004-10-08)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1042969  opened by  George Yoshida

Decimal.py enhancements  (2004-10-08)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1043218  opened by  Facundo Batista

Enhancing '-m' to support packages  (2004-10-09)
       http://python.org/sf/1043356  opened by  Nick Coghlan

External storage protocol for large email messages  (2004-10-09)
       http://python.org/sf/1043706  opened by  Barry A. Warsaw

tarfile: add extractall() method  (2004-10-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1043890  opened by  Lars Gust?bel

tarfile.py: patch for bug #1017553  (2004-10-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1043972  opened by  Lars Gust?bel

Bug #1011380 alternate fix - locking is noop without threads  (2004-10-11)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1044089  opened by  Nick Coghlan

Add FreeBSD* to configure.in for --enable-shared  (2004-10-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1044395  opened by  James William Pye

improved configure.in output  (2004-10-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1045620  opened by  Wummel

Remove unncessary NLST from ftp transfers  (2004-10-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1045783  opened by  Chris Cogdon

Consistent retrieval of Python version.  (2004-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1046831  opened by  uiltje

Buffer overwrite in PyUnicode_AsWideChar  (2004-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1047269  opened by  Thomas Heller

Patches Closed
______________

-m option to run a module as a script  (2004-09-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1035498  closed by  rhettinger

True/False instead of 1/0 in libstdtypes.tex  (2004-10-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1041364  closed by  rhettinger

pdb enhancements and bug fixes  (2004-02-12)
       http://python.org/sf/896011  closed by  jlgijsbers

bbetter document popenX 'cmd' argument  (2004-10-08)
       http://python.org/sf/1042705  closed by  jlgijsbers

popen2.popen2() 'cmd' list syntax docstring  (2004-02-01)
       http://python.org/sf/888380  closed by  jlgijsbers

broken TeX markup  (2004-10-08)
       http://python.org/sf/1042969  closed by  jlgijsbers

Decimal.py enhancements  (2004-10-08)
       http://python.org/sf/1043218  closed by  rhettinger

replacing rfc822.formatdate  (2004-08-09)
       http://python.org/sf/1005857  closed by  anthonybaxter

email/__init__.py: Parse headersonly  (2004-03-20)
       http://python.org/sf/920037  closed by  bwarsaw

Bad behavior of email.Charset.Charset when locale is tr_TR  (2003-12-29)
       http://python.org/sf/866982  closed by  bwarsaw

mailbox / fromline matching  (2002-02-22)
       http://python.org/sf/521478  closed by  bwarsaw

Bug #1011380 alternate fix - locking is noop without threads  (2004-10-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1044089  closed by  tim_one

Logger file objects  (2004-08-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1001864  closed by  vsajip

Signal fixes for BSD systems  (2004-06-18)
       http://python.org/sf/975056  closed by  anthonybaxter

Allow ldshared to be overridden by environment var  (2004-07-01)
       http://python.org/sf/983206  closed by  anthonybaxter

New / Reopened Bugs
___________________

copy.deepcopy exceptions.TypeError: 'NoneType' object ...  (2004-10-06)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1041325  opened by  Arthur Lutz

SimpleXMLRPCServer example is broken  (2004-10-06)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1041501  opened by  Kent Johnson

Thread management corrupts heap  (2004-10-06)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1041645  opened by  benson margulies

Patch  (2004-10-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1042179  opened by  Michiel de Hoon

Lib/compiler chokes on certain genexps  (2004-10-07)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1042238  opened by  Michael Hudson

mimetypes.guess_extension('text/plain') = '.ksh' ???  (2004-10-08)
       http://python.org/sf/1043134  opened by  Robert Kiendl

Uninterruptable loop  (2004-10-09)
       http://python.org/sf/1043446  opened by  Jp Calderone

compile error with stlport  (2004-10-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1044299  opened by  Debug

Can't raise "C API version mismatch" warning  (2004-10-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1044382  opened by  Frank Sonnenburg

docs for Py_UNICODE are wrong  (2004-10-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1044479  opened by  Thomas Heller

Unable to install Docs - Linux  (2004-10-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1044872  opened by  Colin J. Williams

strptime doesn't work with %U  (2004-10-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1045381  opened by  Sebastien JUST

Problems with os.system and ulimit -f  (2004-10-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1045509  opened by  Tomasz Kowaltowski

test_subprocess vs Windows  (2004-10-12)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1045748  opened by  Tim Peters

warning '"_POSIX_C_SOURCE" redefined' when include Python.h  (2004-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1045893  opened by  Eugene Sizikov

urllib2: better import ftplib and gopherlib etc late  (2004-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1046077  opened by  Robert Kiendl

HTMLParser fix to accept mailformed tag attributes  (2004-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1046092  opened by  Vsevolod Novikov

improving distutils swig support  (2004-10-14)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1046404  opened by  Anthony Baxter

improving distutils swig support (2)  (2004-10-14)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1046644  opened by  Lars Immisch

difflib.HtmlDiff doc errors (EASY)  (2004-10-13)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1046690  opened by  Dan Gass

Error in the given example  (2004-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1046800  opened by  Vishnu

httplib index out of range  (2004-10-14)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1046855  opened by  Grzegorz Makarewicz

improving distutils swig support - documentation  (2004-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1046945  opened by  Lars Immisch

cgitb failures  (2004-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1047397  opened by  Robin Becker

Bugs Closed
___________

copy.deepcopy exceptions.TypeError: 'NoneType' object ...  (2004-10-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1041325  closed by  arthur_lutz

SimpleXMLRPCServer example is broken  (2004-10-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1041501  closed by  akuchling

Thread management corrupts heap  (2004-10-06)
       http://python.org/sf/1041645  closed by  tim_one

PyOS_InputHook broken  (2004-09-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1030629  closed by  mwh

Patch  (2004-10-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1042179  closed by  mwh

Lib/compiler chokes on certain genexps  (2004-10-07)
       http://python.org/sf/1042238  closed by  mwh

Enhancements to pdb.py when invoked as script  (2003-06-09)
       http://python.org/sf/751124  closed by  jlgijsbers

shutils.rmtree() uses excessive amounts of memory  (2004-09-09)
       http://python.org/sf/1025127  closed by  jlgijsbers

Conflicting descriptions of application order of decorators  (2004-09-21)
       http://python.org/sf/1031897  closed by  akuchling

x, y in curses window object documentation  (2004-09-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1022311  closed by  akuchling

Confusing description of strict option for email.Parser  (2004-09-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1032960  closed by  bwarsaw

email package uses \n to rebuild content of a message  (2004-06-01)
       http://python.org/sf/964433  closed by  bwarsaw

smtpd.py docstring says wrong default class  (2004-08-16)
       http://python.org/sf/1010102  closed by  bwarsaw

email: mishandles Content-Transfer-Enc. for text/* messages  (2004-05-09)
       http://python.org/sf/950747  closed by  bwarsaw

Email message croaks the new email pkg parser  (2004-09-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1030941  closed by  bwarsaw

Make GIL acquire/release functions noops if PyEval_Init  (2004-08-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1011380  closed by  tim_one

test_subprocess vs Windows  (2004-10-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1045748  closed by  tim_one

BSD restartable signals not correctly disabled  (2004-06-09)
       http://python.org/sf/969574  closed by  anthonybaxter

Solaris likes sys/loadavg.h  (2004-06-22)
       http://python.org/sf/977343  closed by  anthonybaxter

improving distutils swig support  (2004-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1046404  closed by  anthonybaxter

improving distutils swig support (2)  (2004-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1046644  closed by  anthonybaxter

difflib.HtmlDiff doc errors (EASY)  (2004-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1046690  closed by  tim_one

httplib index out of range  (2004-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1046855  closed by  rhettinger



From jean-guillaume.paradis at usherbrooke.ca  Wed Oct 13 19:07:43 2004
From: jean-guillaume.paradis at usherbrooke.ca (Jean-Guillaume Paradis)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:07:43 -0400
Subject: [Possible Bug-Python2.3.2] MD5 module?
Message-ID: <416DB53F.2020208@usherbrooke.ca>

Hi,

    I've tried to use the md5 module of python 2.3.3, and the results of 
a hash do not concord with those of reference sites such as 
http://bfl.rctek.com/tools/?tool=hasher

    I call it using

    import md5
    m = md5.new()
    m.update("a")
    print m.hexdigest()


    I have not checked if the problem is the same on more recent version 
though

   

   


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Oct  7 18:58:05 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:58:05 -0400
Subject: Graceful detection of EOF
In-Reply-To: <Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> MickeyBob wrote:
>
>> How does one detect the EOF gracefully? Assuming I have a pickle file
>> containing an unknown number of objects, how can I read (i.e.,
>> pickle.load()) until the EOF is encountered without generating an EOF
>> exception?
>
>
> Why isn't catching the exception graceful?
>
> # UNTESTED CODE
>
> def load_pickle_iter(infile):
>   while 1:
>     try:
>       yield pickle.load(infile)
>     except EOFError:
>       break
>
> for obj in load_pickle_iter(open("mydata.pickle", "rb")):
>   print obj
>
>
> This is well in line with the normal Python idiom,
> as compared to "look before you leap".
>
>                 Andrew
>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com

So, what you're saying is that the Python way, in contradistinction to 
"look before you leap", is "land in it, then wipe it off?"  Can we get 
that in the Zen of Python?  :-)

Seriously, this is beautiful.  I understand generators, but haven't 
become accustomed to using them yet.  That is just beautiful, which _is_ 
Zen.


Jeremy Jones



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 27 02:38:44 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:38:44 -0700
Subject: py2exe and UPPER CASE file system
In-Reply-To: <clneo6$5ve$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
References: <clim4g$3nv$3@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
	<u0sj3r19.fsf@python.net>  <clneo6$5ve$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
Message-ID: <1098859124.22370.412.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 08:20 +0200, Werner Merkl wrote:
> > Werner Merkl <werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com> writes:
> > 
> >>my problem is, I try to use a py2exe compiled python script from a
> >>CD-ROM. This should work, BUT the tool I use (or have to use)
> >>generates only upper case file names on the CD-ROM.
> >>

Somehow I missed the original post, but what OS are you on that have to
use a tool that generates only uppercase filenames on the CD?  If you're
on Windows, Linux, BSD, Solaris or most any modern OS, you should be
able to use cdrtools (cdrecord + mkisofs) which can generate
Rockridge/Joliet CD's with regular (long mixed case) filenames:

cdrecord homepage:
http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/glone/employees/joerg.schilling/private/cdrecord.html

binaries for a lot of different systems here:
ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From emayo at home.com  Mon Oct 18 15:56:51 2004
From: emayo at home.com (Pater Maximus)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:56:51 -0400
Subject: How can I do French and English Spell Checking using MS Word from
	Python
Message-ID: <S92dnUyCuPpqguncRVn-uQ@comcast.com>

I want to use the MS Word spell checker from my Python program. I check the
spelling a word at a time. It works fine for English but I can not force it
to use French when I am using that language.



The French spell checking works find when done directly in the Word window.
I have the automatic language detection turned off, the language set to
French, and keyboard set to French



I am using win32com. Any help appreciated




From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct  7 22:13:16 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:13:16 -0400
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4522.1097173984.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>	<864d37090410070250210881d2@mail.gmail.com><mailman.4488.1097144029.5135.python-list@python.org>	<41656D52.5090903@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.4522.1097173984.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lNm9d.872$lp6.537@okepread01>

Tim Williams wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com>
> 
> 
>>Tim Williams wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Can anyone suggest a way of capturing the output from smtplib's
>>>set_debuglevel
> 
> 
>>All smtplib debug output is produced using print statements to standard
>>ouput, so you could try creating a "file-like" object (such as a
>>cStringIO) and temporarily replacing sys.stdout with it (saving
>>sys.sdout and replacing it if other parts of your program need to use it).
>>
>>If you need help to work out the details, post again.
> 
> 
> Many thanks Steve
> 
> I have implemented your suggestion ,   but what is the best way to get the
> data out of the file-like object,   the only option that seems to work for
> me is
> 
> f.getvalue()
> 
> which returns a string,  but getvalue() doesn't "feel" right somehow.   Am I
> missing something ?
> 
If you want to use file primitives to read the value back, just create 
another one:

inpt = StringIO.StringIO(firstStringIO.getvalue())

then you can read the printed output from inpt just like a file.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct  9 03:36:13 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 07:36:13 GMT
Subject: (solved)  smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4622.1097283888.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4599.1097264257.5135.python-list@python.org>	<vQE9d.9719$M05.9411@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4622.1097283888.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <NxM9d.7377$UP1.1405@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> After perusing it (smtplib) for a bit, I notice how often the debug
> notices are peppered through.  Thankfully for the most recent CVS, they
> include 'print >>stderr, <stuff>' rather than the previous 'print
> <stuff>'.  At least it allows doing smtplib.stderr = <anything>, without
> affecting other modules that rely on a reasonable stderr.

Ahh, that would explain why my examples replaced
smtplib.stderr while others replaced sys.stdout.  I'm
working out of a CVS build.

> Thread local storage isn't necessary, and actually makes it harder.  You
> have to write custom code to get back your per-thread storage, whether
> that is remembering to write the log when the thread dies, or using a
> weakref to do it for you; neither of which are necessarily a newbie
> thing to do.

In a cursory look of your code I though you were implementing
a sort of thread local storage.  Looking at it again I don't
see how

         thread = threading.currentThread().getName()
         try:
             self.lock.acquire()
             if thread in self.ios:
                 self.ios[thread].write(data)
             else:
                 t = self.ios[thread] = StringIO()
                 t.write(data)
         finally:
             self.lock.release()

isn't using thread local storage in
    self.ios[threading.currentThread().getName()]

Agreed with the rest, though while I've used Twisted
some and think I understand the idea of a reactor
based system I still haven't internalized it yet.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Oct 27 14:17:01 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:17:01 -0300
Subject: 2.4beta1 distutil problem?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7AF9@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Helmut Jarausch]

#- Many thanks,
#- hopefully it makes it into the CVS,

Did you open a patch or bug in Sourceforge?

.	Facundo


From ksenia at ksenia.nl  Thu Oct 28 12:02:45 2004
From: ksenia at ksenia.nl (Ksenia Marasanova)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:02:45 +0200
Subject: (python), uid 80: exited on signal 11
Message-ID: <CEB19254-28FA-11D9-9CA1-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>

Hi,

I have few Python cgi scripts on the server (FreeBSD 4.9) for sending 
email from plain HTML websites.
Few days ago I added database backup functionality to it, by saving 
emails into the database (psycopg + PostgreSQL).
Since then nasty messages like this sometimes appear in daily security 
log:

> pid 6926 (python), uid 80: exited on signal 11

I searched Apache log and found indeed 500 errors for those requests 
("premature end of script headers"). So script died very early for some 
reason. But why signal 11? I googled and found mentions of bad hardware 
and security holes. I am quite sure there is nothing wrong with the 
hardware, however. And the scripts were working just fine before the 
modification.

Probably the shortest solution would be to convert all those scripts to 
Quixote (that I use for all other sites). But I am just curious what 
that signal 11 means.


Thanks!
Ksenia.



From sjackman at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 21:10:15 2004
From: sjackman at gmail.com (Shaun Jackman)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:10:15 -0700
Subject: Line buffering pipes
In-Reply-To: <7f45d939041029161052832e6a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7f45d939041029161052832e6a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f45d93904102918103f639852@mail.gmail.com>

I've found in help( 'open') that specifying 1 as the buffer size
indicates line buffering. I've tried this, but the same non-line
buffered behaviour persists. I've tried disabling buffering
altogether, specifying 0 as the buffer size, to no avail.

Python 2.3.4

Please cc me in your reply. Thanks,
Shaun

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:10:34 -0700, Shaun Jackman <sjackman at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm reading from a tcpdump pipe. I want to receive one line from the
> pipe as soon as its available from tcpdump. Something is buffering the
> pipe though, so I am receiving nothing, then multiple lines in a big
> batch. I thought this was the inherent buffering of next(), but it
> affects readline too.
> 
> For example,
>     tcpdump = os.popen( 'sudo tcpdump', 'r')
> both
>     while True: print tcpdump.next(),
> and
>     while True: print tcpdump.readline(),
> buffer mutiple lines before printing.
> 
> Please cc me in your reply. Thanks,
> Shaun


From ivan at ivan-herman.net  Sat Oct  2 05:04:36 2004
From: ivan at ivan-herman.net (Ivan Herman)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:04:36 +0200
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4144.1096560257.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>	<JaOdnbKT9I4chMHcRVn-vQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.4144.1096560257.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <415e6f0d$0$41688$1b2cd167@news.euronet.nl>

John Hunter wrote:
>>>>>>"Istvan" == Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> writes:
> 
> 
>     Istvan> Tim Henderson wrote:
>     >> I want to dynamically generate a graph in python that would be
>     >> displayable on a web page. What would be the best way to do
>     >> this?
> 
>     Istvan> See if you can run graphviz in the background.
> 
>     Istvan> http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/graphviz/
> 
> I think he means the other kind of graph, aka a plot/chart.
> 

If this is indeed what he means:-) I began to use PyChart last week:

http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Yasushi_Saito/pychart/

I is o.k. for relatively simple statistical charts, and may produce output in SVG, PS, 
PDF, PNG, and interactive X11 display

Ivan

> JDH



From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 11:16:12 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 15:16:12 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
Message-ID: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
in site-packages) in an application.

Let's also say I use py2exe to package and distribute said
application.

Is what I'm distributing a "derived work" of the GPL'd python?
Or is py2exe's packaging of the module's .pyc file and my
application code's .pyc files a "mere aggregation" so that I
only have to provide source code for the GPL'ed module and not
for my application code?

IOW, do I have to GPL my application code and distribute source
code for it?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  SHHHH!! I hear SIX
                                  at               TATTOOED TRUCK-DRIVERS
                               visi.com            tossing ENGINE BLOCKS into
                                                   empty OIL DRUMS...


From russblau at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 12 18:27:54 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:27:54 -0400
Subject: list comprehension for splitting strings into pairs
References: <mailman.4781.1097619107.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2t344cF1qetlbU1@uni-berlin.de>

"Steven Bethard" <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.4781.1097619107.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Here's what I'm doing:
>
> >>> lst = ['1', '1:2', '3', '-1:4']
> >>> splits = []
> >>> for s in lst:
> ... pair = s.split(':')
> ... if len(pair) != 2:
> ... pair.append(None)
> ... splits.append(pair)
> ...
> >>> splits
> [['1', None], ['1', '2'], ['3', None], ['-1', '4']]
>
> Basically, I want to split each string into two items, substituting
> None when no second item is specified in the string.  (As you can see,
> in my strings, the items are delimited by ':').
>
> It seems like a simple enough operation that I should be able to write
> a list comprehension for it, but I can't figure out how...  Any
> suggestions?

How's this?

>>> lst = ['1', '1:2', '3', '-1:4']
>>> splits = [':' in item and item.split(':', 1) or [item, None] \
              for item in lst]
>>> splits
[['1', None], ['1', '2'], ['3', None], ['-1', '4']]

This approach is cute, but lacks any error-checking, so you can only use it
if you are fairly sure your "lst" will contain strings in the proper format.

-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From jerf at jerf.org  Sat Oct 30 14:00:45 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.30.19.00.55.769457@jerf.org>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:18:30 +0200, Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> What is Python's answer to Perl 6?

"Hi, welcome to the party.

Wow, you sure have an awful lot of cruft attached to you, considering you
can't do much more, if any, than me."

Perl 6 may be the best thing that happened to Python. Esp. if both run on
Parrot and people suddenly have a per-object choice about which language
to use. Ob-believe-it-when-I-see-it.

Perl 6, IMNSHO, represents the ultimate failure of the philosophy of Perl.
When you are a small language, a handful of exceptions for the common
cases might make sense. Even Python has its little exceptions, like the
"print" statement-not-a-function, and the resulting "print >>" syntax.

In the Python philosophy, those were warts. In the Perl philosophy, those
would be something to be embraced, and indeed they are:

       print FILEHANDLE LIST
       print LIST
       print   Prints a string or a list of strings.  Returns true if success-
               ful.  FILEHANDLE may be a scalar variable name, in which case
               the variable contains the name of or a reference to the file-
               handle, thus introducing one level of indirection.  (NOTE: If
               FILEHANDLE is a variable and the next token is a term, it may
               be misinterpreted as an operator unless you interpose a "+" or
               put parentheses around the arguments.)  If FILEHANDLE is omit-
               ted, prints by default to standard output (or to the last
               selected output channel--see "select").  If LIST is also omit-
               ted, prints $_ to the currently selected output channel.  To
               set the default output channel to something other than STDOUT
               use the select operation.  The current value of $, (if any) is
               printed between each LIST item.  The current value of "$\" (if
               any) is printed after the entire LIST has been printed.
               Because print takes a LIST, anything in the LIST is evaluated
               in list context, and any subroutine that you call will have one
               or more of its expressions evaluated in list context.  Also be
               careful not to follow the print keyword with a left parenthesis
               unless you want the corresponding right parenthesis to termi-
               nate the arguments to the print--interpose a "+" or put paren-
               theses around all the arguments.

               Note that if you're storing FILEHANDLES in an array or other
               expression, you will have to use a block returning its value
               instead:

                   print { $files[$i] } "stuff\n";
                   print { $OK ? STDOUT : STDERR } "stuff\n";

Just the docs for the print statement have to tell you about the call
context of the calls in a list, there's a special case that requires a
block. Python's print doc is longer by word count, but is actually simpler.

http://docs.python.org/ref/print.html

plus the last paragraph is a wart.

The problem is the little exceptions start interacting exponentially, and
ultimately, exponentially beats anything that a human can produce. Perl 6
may be great to use, but it will be a long time before I trust it, and I
strongly expect that despite how rosy everything is presented in the
Exegeses and such, that if you try to combine two or three of the nifty
features you'll be pulling out your hair in nothing flat. I don't and
can't know this, this is just my intuition, based on experience, speaking. 

And what on Earth does Perl 6 say about Perl 7?

As a user of both Perl and Python, I am not concerned about Python being
"wiped out" by Perl 6, nor do I see a strong need to change Python as a
result. So far, the Python implementation of the good ideas I see in the
Perl 6 docs have been trivial, and so far, despite having implementations
on hand I've never needed them. ("any" and related keywords come to mind.) 

(I have a similar rant about software reverse compatibility, and why it is
a trap: http://www.jerf.org/iri/2004/06/20.html

I think the way Python does it is just about optimal; try hard, but
reverse compatibility is not job #1 and if we *have* to break it, do so.
By dealing with the problem head on, everything actually works out much
better than if you sweep the problem under the rug until you can't
possibly do it anymore, and your platform is bulging at the seams with
reverse compatibility code.

In terms of the essay above, Perl is headed for exponential pain, only
instead of it coming about because of reverse compatibility fixes/hacks,
it is coming about because of the interactions of all of the More Than One
Ways To Do It, and those Ways ultimately have the same effect as reverse
compatibility patches/hacks.)


From dbickett at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 11:29:03 2004
From: dbickett at gmail.com (Daniel Bickett)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:29:03 -0400
Subject: wxIEHTML
In-Reply-To: <417a41ec$0$27542$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
References: <20041023002214.29660.00006347@mb-m16.aol.com>
	<417a41ec$0$27542$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1d6cdae3041023082965bac10b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:35:08 +0100, Will McGugan
<news at nowillmcguganspam.com> wrote:
> LutherRevisited wrote:
> > I know I asked this question before about wxhtml windows(thanks for the
> > answer), now I'm wanting links to open up in my default browser when I click on
> > them from a wxIE window.  I realize that all I have to do is right-click on the
> > link and just open it in a separate window, but in the interests of
> > completeness, if anybody can tell me how this can be done I'd be grateful.
> 
> In C++ you override the OnStartURL function. I imagine there is an
> equivelent Python function.

At which point it would be best to use urllib to open the url, being
that you want the link to open up in the default browser.

Daniel Bickett


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct  4 10:03:41 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 07:03:41 -0700
Subject: limitations of current logging package
References: <2e37dc1.0409230442.7e74543d@posting.google.com>
	<4edc17eb.0409232031.66ad3d4e@posting.google.com>
	<2e37dc1.0409260220.6ad5cb6c@posting.google.com>
	<JqSdnXgsbLTkosXcRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<2e37dc1.0410020754.739f8744@posting.google.com>
	<eumdnURFhI6YHP3cRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410040603.1afd74ff@posting.google.com>

> I take it this is yet another of the changes that was made
> only in post-Python-2.3, because in 2.3.4 it does not behave
> that way.  If exc_info is set to anything, it is overwritten
> with sys.exc_info().

Yes. The code in CVS does this:

        if exc_info:
            if type(exc_info) != types.TupleType:
                exc_info = sys.exc_info()


Regards,

Vinay


From jezequiel at gmail.com  Sat Oct 30 01:59:38 2004
From: jezequiel at gmail.com (Justin Ezequiel)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 05:59:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Tkinter and utf-8
References: <mailman.5643.1099019383.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4181cc21$0$3620$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<mailman.5644.1099029894.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4181ED60.5010703@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.5646.1099035549.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<20041029104513.80B.0.NOFFLE@ID-7776.user.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041030T074624-930@post.gmane.org>

Dirk Thierbach writes: 
 
> xlsfonts -lll -fn '*iso10646*' | grep 0x17f 
>  
> to see all the metrics for LATIN SMALL LETTER LONG S. If any of these 
> have non-zero metrics, the character is available. Inspect the full 
> output to find the complete font name, and use 'xfd' to display the 
> font. On my system, for example, all *misc* fonts have this character, 
> but the *helvetica* fonts don't. 
 
Thanks, I will try this. 
 
> Finally, you have to make sure Tk uses the fonts. IIRC Tkinter allows 
> you to access the Tk option database, so set the font options 
> with X-style names. That should do the trick, but I didn't check. 
 
Will have to research how this is done. 
Thanks again. 
 
BTW, in the meantime, I've copied and installed 'Arial Unicode MS' from my 
WinXP box. 
Explicitly telling Tkinter to use that font seems to work just find here on my 
Mandrake box but I am uneasy about the legality of this. 
 



From theller at python.net  Thu Oct 28 09:32:32 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:32:32 +0200
Subject: py2exe and CD-ROM ISO Level 1
References: <clqm4e$jd8$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
Message-ID: <654v3r4f.fsf@python.net>

Werner Merkl <werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
>
> [still looking for a solution]
>
> we have written a Python EXE program, which should run via AUTORUN.INF
> from a CD/DVD (Windows of course).
>
> For this CD/DVD we us a imaging tool from Microsoft, which seam to
> generate a pure ISO 9660 level 1 image.
>
> This means:
>   - Only upper case letters A-Z and numbers 0-9
>   - 8.3 file names
>
> For Python 2.2 and py2exe 0.4.1 this worked fine. Today, it does not.
>
> So:
>   - Is there an option to generate a py2exe program with PYTHONCASE set?
>   - Or do I need a wrapper? (My own C program, setting the environment
>              and then starting the Python EXE program.)
>   - Is there a tricky way to start up with code like
>        "import OS as os"?
>   - May I use my own case insensitive importer?
>   - Or do I need to recompile Python?

What errors exactly do you get?

Although I have posted before that this wouldn't work, currently I
believe that it *should* work.
I tried the 'simple' sample in the py2exe distro, which contains a
trvivial command line program, plus a simple wxPython program, wrote
them to an ISO level 1 CD, and it worked.

1. The python modules are imported from the zip file, as long as this
has an 8.3 name, all should be fine.

2. Extension modules are loaded with imp.load_dynamic (custom loaders
are created for them, in py2exe\build_exe.py, the create_loader method).
As far as I can see, imp.load_dynamic(module_name, file_name) should
work independent of the case or spelling of 'file_name'.  If the
extensions you need have filenames with more than 8 characters, you
could probably subclass the build_exe command.

Thomas


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 03:53:35 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:53:35 -0700
Subject: Ergonomics (was Re: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <du7r7o3ytii.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <du7r7oa1dst.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<I4j9d.5365$UP1.2717@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<du7655lh914.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.4800.1097635300.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7r7o3ytii.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <1097654015.10090.22.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 10:19 +0300, Ville Vainio wrote:
> >>>>> "Cliff" == Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> writes:
> 
>     Cliff> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 12:08 +0300, Ville Vainio wrote:
> 
>     >> Incidentally, I've remapped my keyboard so that ( and ) don't
>     >> require pressing shift.
> 
>     Cliff> *smacks forehead and cries*
> 
> Why? Ergonomics is a matter that is taken into account way too rarely,
> just observe how frequently programmers complain about RSI these
> days. Python is pretty ergonomic for the most part (not too much
> punctuation, popular habit of preferring lowercase letters) but it's
> often a good idea to go for a little extra edge :).

I'm crying because I've been hitting shift 8000 times a day for 20 years
when such a simple solution was right in front of my face :P

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From sean at buildingonline.com  Wed Oct 27 17:26:08 2004
From: sean at buildingonline.com (Sean Berry)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:26:08 -0700
Subject: Can not get urllib.urlopen to work
References: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <lnUfd.78980$hj.33310@fed1read07>

>I am trying to implement the recipe listed at
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/211886
>
> However, I can not get to first base. When I try to run
>
> import urllib
> fo=urllib.urlopen("http://www.dictionary.com/")
> page = fo.read()
>
> I get:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "C:/Program Files/Python/Lib/idlelib/testurl", line 2, in -toplevel-
>    fo=urllib.urlopen("http://www.dictionary.com/")
>  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\urllib.py", line 76, in urlopen
>    return opener.open(url)
>  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\urllib.py", line 181, in open
>    return getattr(self, name)(url)
>  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\urllib.py", line 297, in open_http
>    h.endheaders()
>  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 712, in endheaders
>    self._send_output()
>  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 597, in _send_output
>    self.send(msg)
>  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 564, in send
>    self.connect()
>  File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 548, in connect
>    raise socket.error, msg
> IOError: [Errno socket error] (10061, 'Connection refused')
>

Connection refused is the key.  Apparently dictionary.com figured out that
people were trying to use their resourses without giving them credit.  I
have done some research on how to accomplish this so that people can not use
the cgi-bin programs (and others) that I write.

A few years back I needed to get information about the weather based on zip
code.  I used to use weather.com but they fixed the hole.  They made any
port 80 request forward to another address, which in turn forwarded you to
the original request.  So if you west to www.weather.com, it would forward
you to www2.weather.com, then back to www.weather.com.  The index page at
www.weather.com would then check the referrer to see if it came from
www2.weather.com.  If the referrer was correct, then you got the page
content.  If it was wrong, there was no page.

Similarly, www2.weather.com would check to see that the referrer was
www.weather.com... so there was no way around it.

I use another method to protect my programs... but it still does the same
thing ultimatly... stops people from using my programs.

Like it has been mentioned, a good starting place is Telnet.  I tried
telnetting when I first read this post and got a connection refused, but now
I can get through - weird.  I also tried a source dump from lynx... which 10
minutes ago did not work, but now it does.

# telnet www.dictionary.com 80

# lynx -source -preparse -dump http://www.dictionary.com

These both work to show the source of the index page.  And the python recipe 
even works now.... go figure. 




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 02:56:39 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:56:39 +0200
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gkyyzf.onbx1j13sdceuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jan Dries <jan.dries at dcube-resource.be> wrote:
   ...
> IIRC from back when I was in school (long time ago), both forms are correct.
> At least in Dutch. Strictly spoken it should be "a few is enough" or "a
> number of people has died". But the plural form is also accepted, and it is

The Dutch are wondefully pragmatic...

> called (with an expensive Latin term) "constructio ad sensum", i.e. you

...and so were the Latins.

> conjugate the verb in accordance with what the word represents, rather than
> with what it grammatically is. 

In Italian, this kind of freedom holds only for a few specific "idioms
of collectivity" -- "un certo numero di persone", "una grande quantita`
di persone", "la maggioranza delle persone".  And even then, in many
subcases, it depends on whether the verb expresses a collective action
or a plurality of individual actions (some cases remain ambiguous).

A rea-life example...: "La maggioranza degli italiani vive in un
appartamento" ("A majority of Italians lives in an apartment", with the
verb in the singular form) was once stated on TV by a politician and led
to universal derision and unending jokes (even among his political
allies) about how crowded that one apartment must be; in this case he
should have said "vivono in appartamenti" ("live in apartments"), with
the verb (and apartments;-) in the plural form.  I suspect that this
particular example does carry over to some other languages;-).


Alex


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Oct 25 16:59:59 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:59:59 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <tvSdnT7V_p2Yy-DcRVn-3Q@powergate.ca>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca> <m31xfmwqwb.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<m3sm82vbrv.fsf@g2ctech.com>  <tvSdnT7V_p2Yy-DcRVn-3Q@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1098737999.22370.46.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 15:37 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Jorge Godoy wrote:
> > Jorge Godoy <godoy at ieee.org> writes:
> > 
> > 
> >>Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Whatever gave you the idea you are obligated to provide support?!
> >>
> >>One has such an obligation here in .br.  Our law demands that and a
> >>license can't override what is stated in the law, so... 
> > 
> > 
> > Just to make it clear: I was referring to obligations to software
> > distributed/sold here...
> 
> Now you tell me.  :-)
> 
> It's probably the case in the majority of markets that one is
> obligated to provide some kind of support for the products one
> sells.

Certainly here in the U.S. there is little chance of supplying things
without warranty.  That applies to almost anything, not just software.
Even if you state upfront that something is provided "as is", most
states provide additional protections to the customer.  The extent of
the protection varies from state-to-state, so even if the state that you
are based in doesn't impose such restrictions on freedom from liability,
if the customer is in a different state, you may find yourself bound by
the guarantees provided in the customer's state of residence.

As far as protecting oneself against liability, the only real guarantee
of that is to simply not provide *anything*.  Frankly I fail to see how
open-source versus closed-source matters at all in this area.  If I
write a program in Visual Basic and the program fails due to some bug in
the programming language or libraries, I'm still going to be the one
liable to the customer (especially since it was my choice to use sub-par
tools).  I suppose I might be able to sue Microsoft in return, but I
have doubts about how well that's going to fly in practical terms ;)  In
fact, I'd forward that open source is superior in this respect since I
can either fix it myself or pay someone to fix it for me if I'm unable
(and I've done this in the last week, so I hereby invoke the voice of
experience <wink>).


Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From newsuser at stacom-software.de  Mon Oct 11 10:10:04 2004
From: newsuser at stacom-software.de (Alexander Eisenhuth)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:10:04 +0200
Subject: kinterbase and stored procedure
Message-ID: <2svii1F1qc0k9U1@uni-berlin.de>

Hallo everybody using kinterbase,

I' relative new to DB and python, so forgive if the 
questions is stupide.

I'm trying to write the declaration of a SP to the server in 
the way:

SPSETUP = \
"SET TERM !!;
" CREATE PROCEDURE MYPROC
   AS ..."

cursor = kinterbasdb.connect(...)
cursor.excute(SPSETUP)

But it seems that anything has problems with "SET TERM !!" 
expression . If I use the DB SQL console, everything seems 
to be OK (the proc is setup)

''' kinterbasdb.ProgrammingError : (-104, 
'isc_dsql_execute_immediate: Dynamic SQL Error. SQL error 
code = -104. Token unknown - line 1, char 4. TERM. ') '''


Any help is very welcome  ...

Regards
Alexander


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 03:14:05 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 00:14:05 -0700
Subject: From dictionary keys to variables
References: <6f402501.0410110433.172a6c26@posting.google.com>
	<ckecld$1qun$1@news.dg.net.ua>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410112314.59abde3a@posting.google.com>

Timothy Babytch <tim at zeos.net> wrote in message news:<ckecld$1qun$1 at news.dg.net.ua>...
> Michael Foord wrote:
> Why cheat? There is legal way to do that:
> 
> for entry in valuelist:
> 	globals()[entry] = config[entry]
> 
> > Now is there any reason not to 'cheat' and use __main__.__dict__ to
> > create the variables ?
> > 
> > valuelist = ['name1', 'name2', 'name3'....]
> > config = ConfigObj(filename, configspec=valuelist)
> > import __main__
> > for entry in valuelist:
> >         __main__.__dict__[entry] = config[entry]
> 
> 

Ahh... I didn't realise you could do assignment into globals()......... 

Thanks

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> 
> 
> -- 
> Timothy Babytch


From export at hope.cz  Fri Oct  1 06:53:30 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 03:53:30 -0700
Subject: os.system  vs. Py2Exe
References: <81a41dd.0409280200.1a74edd1@posting.google.com>
	<Rd2dneVBGfQrXMTcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<81a41dd.0409282240.739cb257@posting.google.com>
	<4_CdnUGCt9u3CcfcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
	<81a41dd.0409290652.61d6aaa4@posting.google.com>
	<8249c4ac.0409291619.2cd87a4f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410010253.582aba45@posting.google.com>

> You can use this instead of os.system()
> 
> import os
> fh=os.popen("notepad myfile.txt")
> fh.close()
> (but you should add the appropriate exception handling)
> 
> This opens notepad and python will exit if you ran it like this
> python myscript.py myfile.txt
> 
> If you ran python interactively, then you are returned to the python
> command line, after the os.popen() statement. In which case you should
> manually close the file, as shown above.
> 
> fh is a file object, so if you want to you can read from that object.
> 
> This should work on W98, Win2K, Win XP and does not depend on any file
> associations.
> 
> I would not use os.startfile() for anything, if you are expecting to
> open a specific application that is associated with a file extension,
> because many applications re-associate file extensions during
> installation. Additionally, The user may have intentionally
> re-associated .TXT with a different program, because notepad is so
> lame.
> 
> There are many variations of popen(), but popen() is probably the
> simplest for your situation.

Thanks a lot for your help.
os.popen can open file on both Xp and Win98. But there is still a
problem.
When I open myfile.txt (on Win98) by
os.popen("notepad myfile.txt")
my Python program continues running but I would need it to wait until
notepad
window ( with myfile.txt) is closed.
On XP platform the python program execution is paused until I close
the Notepad window.The same I need on Win98 platform
Thanks for help.
LAd


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct  4 15:19:16 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:19:16 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20041004121339.ECAF.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Not sure I understand you here.  I want to implement messages like in 
> ObjC where if you send a msg to an object and that object does know what 
> to do with it, it can send the obj automatically to another object which 
> might know what to do with it.
> 
> Anyhow, there are other reasons as well.

What are called "messages" in ObjC, are generally known as "instance
methods" in Python.

I would imagine in ObjC you would do something like the following:

object.send('operation', arg1, arg2, arg3,...)
send(object, 'operation', arg1, arg2, arg3,...)

In Python, that becomes:

object.operation(arg1, arg2, arg3,...)


"Messages" in ObjC are really just a metaphor, one that is shared by
Smalltalk, but not many other object-oriented languages.

 - Josiah



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Mon Oct  4 23:50:46 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:50:46 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <41621A16.8090105@cloudthunder.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> Richard Blackwood wrote:
>
>> Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the 
>> following support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*
>
>
> Welcome to Python.  I've been using it for almost a decade
> and full time for 7 years and quite enjoy it.
>
> However.  You've asked a whole bunch of questions which
> look as if you've not done any research on your own.  It
> has the feeling almost that you're asking us to do a
> homework assignment for you.  Given the question
>
> > 39. Unicode
>
> it means you haven't even looked at the tutorial at
>   http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html
> with its section 3.1.3 "Unicode strings".
>
> much less given a cursory review of the reference manual at
>   http://docs.python.org/ref/ref.html
>
> Given your questions about closure, tail recursion,
> JIT, prototype-based OOP, etc. you are apparently not
> new to programming.  Reading through the base
> documentation should be a much better use of your time
> and ours than having people answer your questions point
> by point.  After all, some of your questions require
> non-trivial amounts of contextualization to answer
> correctly.  Eg, your #30 assumes a Smalltalk paradigm,
> while Python uses a different way to achieve similar
> ends, your #28 requires explaining Python's reference
> based semantics where variable have only one type,
> reference to object, and your #11 requires a stern
> warning that such behaviour is almost certainly a
> security hole waiting to happen.
>
> The most suspicious part about your post is your
> haphazard use of so many different programming
> paradigms combined with the almost pedigogical way
> of describing some of them.
>
> Please read the basic Python documentation before
> asking these questions.
>
>                 Andrew
>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com

Ouch!  I didn't expect such harsh replies.  Thanks anyways.


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Mon Oct 11 08:46:24 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:46:24 +0100
Subject: define 'in' operator on lists
In-Reply-To: <Xns957F72D5C6476duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <ckdl7u$m08$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<Xns957F72D5C6476duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <ckdvb6$82t$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Duncan Booth wrote:
>>>>def containedinsequence(short, long):

It's probably a good idea not to shadow the long built-in.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From derekledbetter at mindspring.com  Sat Oct 30 04:00:22 2004
From: derekledbetter at mindspring.com (Derek Ledbetter)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:00:22 GMT
Subject: Artifical Life - a job for someone else
References: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>
	<416c6e9d$0$36860$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <0001HW.BDA898560222C74FF0284600@netnews.comcast.net>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:54:04 -0700, Irmen de Jong wrote
(in message <416c6e9d$0$36860$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>):

> While not in Python (but Java instead), I've written an
> online one-dimensional cellular automata simulator.
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~irmen/comp/cellular.html
> 
> It creates those funny pictures you may recognise from
> Stephen Wolfram's book.
> 
> If you want the source code, let me know. It's probably easy
> to convert to Python :)

I wrote a one-dimensional cellular automaton program for the Atari 2600.
It only has 40 cells in the line, since that's the maximum resolution
that I could display using the playfield graphics.  It's written in
assembly language, because a higher-level language simply won't work on
that system.

    http://www.serve.com/derekl/vcs/automaton.html

-- 
Derek Ledbetter
derekl at serve.com

Heavy boots of lead 
fills his victims full of dread 
Running as fast as they can 
Iron Man lives again! 




From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 12 11:10:09 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:10:09 -0700
Subject: Linux and OS/X on the [desk|lap]top [was Re: Database Connectivity]
In-Reply-To: <1gljewt.t3m4wtirod26N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
	<1gl8by8.1ay6g301hrswe8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<XZfad.18001$b5.884997@news3.tin.it>
	<Bdhad.18298$b5.899971@news3.tin.it>
	<BvCdne92t9yqU_fcRVn-pw@megapath.net>
	<mailman.4723.1097525156.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gljewt.t3m4wtirod26N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1097593809.4458.69.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 09:59 +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote: 
> > Reasonable attitude.  Despite being a Linux afficianado, I still
> > recommend Windows for most user's desktops, simply because there isn't
> 
> Mac OS X is actually quite superior, though I found out less than a year
> ago, and "by accident" -- just because I bought an iBook 12", as the
> truly-portable laptop with the best price/performance ratio, intending
> to install Linux on it, then discovered that Darwin/OSX is better.

Yes, but there is still a learning curve for the average Windows user.
It's even more different from Windows than Linux appears to be (to the
end user).  I borrowed an iMac from a friend for a few weeks and I had
to read the help to figure out how to shut the thing down (I didn't
realize the Apple logo was a menu, heh).  Overall, I didn't think the
design was bad, and in fact I like the unusual placement of application
menus across the top of the screen as it saves a bit of screen clutter
(and the GUI is gorgeous).   Nevertheless, the experience was admittedly
something less than the plethora of intuitiveness I'd always heard
about.  Clearly much of my confusion was the direct result of having to
unlearn previous expectations, but unless someone has never used a PC
before, they are going to be stuck with preconceptions based on prior
desktops.  This isn't a criticism of Mac so much as an observation about
all desktops.  They are as intuitive insomuch as they are familiar with
what you already know.  As an example, my ex-girlfriend's first PC was a
Linux laptop that I installed for her.  She quickly came up to speed on
it and now struggles with Windows ;)  Is it because GNOME is so much
more intuitive than Windows?  Well, I like to think so <wink>, but the
reality is more likely simply learned behavior. 

I use Linux as my primary desktop (on both a PC and a laptop) and find
it to be superior to Windows for most things and equivalent on most
others.  The biggest shortcoming has always been lack of easy
installation of third-party apps (and of course this can be blamed on
the third-party vendors not supporting Linux as much as on Linux
itself).  

In short, if someone is a Windows user, I'm probably going to recommend
Windows (at least for the near term).  Why?  Because computing for the
average user is simply about getting their job done or passing their
time in the most comfortable way, not about pushing my favorite
technology down people's throats (and I've learned the hard way that I
simply don't have time to support all my friends and families while they
learn the non-Windows world).  If someone is new to computers (and this
is getting rarer, although not as rare as one might expect), or is
simply fed up with Windows, then I'd certainly recommend OS/X, followed
by Linux (or the reverse, depending on their budget).

> These days, for most users' desktops, I recommend a Mac (there are of
> course some exceptions, e.g. if they absolutely need a specific
> application that just doesn't run there) -- though Linux on the desktop
> is generally quite usable these days (_laptops_ are another story... Mac
> is really the only way to go;-).

I don't know, my Sony Vaio, while not *quite* as sleek as a Mac, isn't
too bad ;)  Then again, it spends most of its life in my bedroom playing
music, so perhaps I'm not experiencing the mobile life enough to see the
difference.

> > enough payoff to justify the learning curve for most people were they to
> > switch.  Linux has major advantages over Windows in many areas, but the
> > desktop currently isn't one of them.
> 
> It's getting there (though laptops are farther behind).

Actually Linux now has one single feature that makes using a laptop with
it far more pleasurable (from my experience) than any other laptop I've
tried: it's possible to setup the Synaptics touchpad (and Alps too,
although it's more difficult) to have vertical and horizontal scroll
areas (much like a scroll-wheel on a mouse, but in both directions).  I
know this sounds like a fairly nondescript feature, but once you've
become accustomed to it (and it takes all of 5 minutes to become
accustomed to), it's difficult to live without (much like moving from my
three-button scroll-wheel mouse to a single button Mac mouse drives me
batty).  I've always found laptops to be somewhat obnoxious due to the
small keyboards (and odd key placement) and lack of a decent pointing
device, but this one feature actually goes a long way towards addressing
the second issue.  It was enough to prompt me to remove my USB mouse
from my laptop for good.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 28 15:07:45 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 19:07:45 GMT
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <41814381$0$33077$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-28, Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:

> It seems that you mistake strong/weak typing with
> static/dynamic typing - a completely different beast.
>
> Python is in fact strong typed - in opposition to php or perl or even C,
> this won't work:
>
> a = "1" + 2
>
> as "1" is a string and 2 an integer.

"1" is a pointer to a char.

> And even though C is statically typed, it won't complain

That's because <pointer> + <integer> has a well-defined meaning
in C -- just like <float> + <integer> does in Python (and in C).

> - you just end up with an unexpected result.

Only people who don't know how C pointer arithmatic works will
get unexpected results.  [That's probably a shockingly high
percentage of C programmers.]

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I brought my BOWLING
                                  at               BALL -- and some DRUGS!!
                               visi.com            


From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Tue Oct  5 00:48:44 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 04:48:44 GMT
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
	<slrncludlu.n81.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<o574m014ea0lesbg7qhgf38umeag4mfhng@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrncm49tc.bmn.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:05:48 -0700, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:
> Sam Holden <sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> Second, "their" is allowed as a singular pronoun only in those cases where
>>> a gender-specific pronoun is called for, but the gender is unclear or would
>>> be sexist.  Instead of "Everyone brought his Python manual," we are now
>>> allowed to say "Everyone brought their Python manual."
>>>
>>> However, in the example that started this, "village" has no gender.  Thus,
>>> I don't see that "their" is an acceptable alternative to "its" in this
>>> case.
>>
>>From the blog you dismissed so lightly which is written by someone who must
>>qualify as an "expert in the field":
>
> Please don't get angry.  English grammar nitpicking is only fun as long as
> no one takes it too seriously.

I'm not angry. Not in the slightest.

Grammar nitpicking is all fun and games to me. Check the quality of the
grammar in my writing and you'll see that if it was something I was
serious about I'd be very grumpy with myself all the time...

>
>>"Principal helps their employees" - Principal is a company.
>
> The names of corporations, in formal British English, are plural nouns.
> Thus, "Hewlett-Packard are introducing a new printer this month."
>
>>"Treasure Island's having their show right now." - Treasure Island is a
>>hotel.
>>
>>"picked by Latina Style as one of their list of ..." - Latina Style is
>>a magazine.
>>
>>Why is a village fundamentally different from a company, hotel, or magazine?
>
> Dunno.  One could use the corporation argument for Treasure Island, but I
> would have used "its" for Latina Style.

A village is a group of people, no?

-- 
Sam Holden


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 31 01:35:20 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:35:20 -0500
Subject: Python and MySQL 4.1
References: <mailman.5723.1099194205.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7acu3wg2f.fsf@guru.mired.org>

"webdsine" <webdsine at yahoo.ca> writes:

> Hello.  I just upgrade to MySQL 4.1 from 4.0, and I'm having trouble
> retrieving text from the DB in the proper format using the MySQLdb
> module in Python.  All text fields that are retrieved are in this
> format:

Just a shot in the dark - did you rebuild the MySLQdb module using the
new MySQL libraries?

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 14 03:42:23 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:42:23 +0200
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <1glm7fd.n7v6rngyxpn5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
    ...
> > from happening in Python 2.x, IMHO... and I really doubt if dicts will
> > ever be changed to accomodate ordering, even in Python 3.0. Too much
> > hassle for too little gain. A hook function seems to be more sensible.
> 
> I don't know.  I was thinking that maybe an ordereddict class would be
> useful, something like:

Yes, a mapping that keeps order can be useful (in either meaning of the
term: remembering order of item insertion [or last modification], or,
intrinsically ordering keys [directly or by value]).  There are a bit
too many variants to warrant making them built-ins, but the collections
module, in Python 2.5, could certainly accomodate several.


> myDict = {'a': 4, 'b': 5 }  # normal dict
> myDict = o{'a': 4, 'b': 5 }  # ordered dict, keeping order ['a', 'b']
> 
> The dictionary could only be use in specific cases, like configuration
> stuff or temporarily when instantiating a metaclass...  I don't know,
> maybe I'm just crazy...

Given the rarity of the need, I very much doubt it makes sense to come
up with special syntax, or implicitly use some choice out of these
special mappings (no doubt slower than regular dicts) in some cases.  In
other words, I agree with Carlos that some way to tell Python what class
to use (in lieu of default dict) for class statements -- presumably a
sys.setsomething call -- is preferable; I do agree with you that users
shouldn't need to come up with their own "ordered mappings", the
standard library should provide them.


Alex


From jerf at jerf.org  Mon Oct 11 17:36:51 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:36:51 GMT
Subject: Python CGI - outputting to textarea
References: <99351542.0410111318.533188f0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.11.17.57.18.222356@jerf.org>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:18:26 -0700, LarsenMTL wrote:

> I have a long running python cgi which in the end returns a link to a
> pdf file. While it runs it generates a log that uses stdout right into
> the html.  I use the sys.stdout.flush() to make this log output
> relatively realtime.
> 
> The log, however, has grown too long.  I wish to output it instead
> into a textarea.  I thought I could just use the textarea tags before
> the output starts.  This works, but my output is no longer "real time"
> even with the flush (it waits till I close the textarea tag to display
> it).  Anyone know a method how I can make it write to the textarea as
> it goes?

You're fighting HTTP and HTML, which just aren't designed for this sort of
thing. Even your "relatively realtime" former implementation is an
accident; at any time any browser could choose to do more buffering and
un-real-time your log.

You're not likely to get more out of the solution than you already have.
Either trim the log, or, if it is getting long because it has to do more
that takes more time, tell the user their request has been accepted, and
email them when it is done. This is a common solution to this problem.

If you want to get crazy, fire the process off somehow, and create a way
for it to give status reports, and use client-side Javascript, with
XMLHTTPRequest, to read off the status periodically. This can in theory be
made cross-browser but I have no idea how true that is.


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Oct  5 20:34:13 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:34:13 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <41631C00.2020209@fastmail.fm>
References: <mailman.4287.1096945195.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10m5t1rbirngjd0@corp.supernews.com> <41631C00.2020209@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <10m6f8rbqe4h232@corp.supernews.com>

Arich Chanachai wrote:

> Jeff Shannon wrote:
>
>> (This sort of setup, with the caller taking responsibility for 
>> failure rather than the callee attempting to make sure that *someone* 
>> handles failure, is far more common in Python than the sort of scheme 
>> that you're asking for.)
>
> Right, I want the callee to handle it, no responsibility for the caller.


Given what you posted, it looked to me as if you had seen/used this 
particular feature in other languages, and therefore expected/wanted it 
in Python.  My point was that, while it may be a standard idiom 
elsewhere, it is probably *not* the best way to do things in Python.  
There may be cases where it *is* actually desirable (I've never found it 
necessary, but then I can't claim a tremendous amount of experience 
either), but you should be aware that it's not the *normal* way of doing 
things even if you then choose to go ahead with it.

Often, someone wants to use a particular syntax feature out of 
familiarity, rather than because it's really the best fit for the job at 
hand.  This is particularly true when coming to a new language; one 
naturally wants to continue programming in the style of the language(s) 
one already knows, but that style may be completely inappropriate for 
the new language.  Others have shown you how to force Python into the 
style that you're used to; I'm suggesting alternative styles that will 
fit better with the way that Python normally works.  It's almost always 
better to use Python idioms when coding in Python, Scheme idioms when 
coding in Scheme, and Java idioms when coding in Java, than it is to try 
to write Python using Scheme idioms.

Feel free to push responsibility onto the callee if you really think 
that's the best way to handle your particular scenario.  I'm just trying 
to make you aware that it's not the way that most experienced Python 
programmer would be likely to do it, and that you might benefit by 
considering the sort of solution that an experienced Python programmer 
would use even if it's different from your initial inclinations.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From simonwittber at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 23:54:36 2004
From: simonwittber at gmail.com (Simon Wittber)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 20:54:36 -0700
Subject: Simplified Hardware Accelerated 2D Graphics
Message-ID: <4e4a11f8.0410211954.2e24db90@posting.google.com>

LGT is a lightweight wrapper over pygame and PyOpenGL which simplifies
2D sprite creation, translation, scaling, rotation and animation for
those of us who want a higher level abstraction of OpenGL and the
graphics hardware.

Features include:

    * Any dimension texture loading
    * Sprite strip based animated sprites
    * Constant co-ordinate system across resolutions
    * Lightweight MVC layer for input and screen events
    * Sprite groups
    * Simulated concurrent processing
    * Fast alpha blending

Check it out from http://metaplay.com.au/svn/LGT or download the
tarball from http://metaplay.com.au/tarballs/LGT.tar.bz2

Simon Wittber.


From srijit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 00:41:58 2004
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 30 Sep 2004 21:41:58 -0700
Subject: Example Code - Python+PythonNet, Ironpython, Boo
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0409302041.3798265d@posting.google.com>

Hello,
Here is an example code of xml writer in Python+PythonNet, Ironpython
and Boo. The codes look very similar.

Regards,
Srijit

Python + PythonNet:

import CLR
import CLR.System
from CLR.System import Console as CLR_Console
import CLR.System.Xml as CLR_Xml

true = 1
false = 0
filename = "test1.xml"
writer = CLR_Xml.XmlTextWriter(filename, None);
#~ Use indenting for readability.
writer.Formatting = CLR_Xml.Formatting.Indented;

writer.WriteComment("XML in Boo Language");

#~ Write an element (this one is the root).
writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");

#~ Write the namespace declaration.
writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", None,
"urn:schoolnames");

writer.WriteStartElement("School");

#~ Lookup the prefix and then write the ISBN attribute.
prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
writer.WriteEndAttribute();     

#~ Write the title.
writer.WriteStartElement("city");
writer.WriteString("Madurai");
writer.WriteEndElement();
  
#~ Write the price.
writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");

#~ Write the style element.
writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
writer.WriteEndElement();

#~ Write the end tag for the book element.
writer.WriteEndElement();

#~ Write the close tag for the root element.
writer.WriteEndElement();
 
#~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
writer.Flush();
writer.Close();

#~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
doc = CLR_Xml.XmlDocument();
#~ Preserve white space for readability.
doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
#~ Load the file
doc.Load(filename);

#~ Write the XML content to the console.
CLR_Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);


Ironpython:

from System import *
from System.Xml import *

true = 1
false = 0
filename = "test1.xml"
writer = XmlTextWriter(filename, None);
#~ Use indenting for readability.
writer.Formatting = Formatting.Indented;

writer.WriteComment("XML in Boo Language");

#~ Write an element (this one is the root).
writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");

#~ Write the namespace declaration.
writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", None,
"urn:schoolnames");

writer.WriteStartElement("School");

#~ Lookup the prefix and then write the ISBN attribute.
prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
writer.WriteEndAttribute();     

#~ Write the title.
writer.WriteStartElement("city");
writer.WriteString("Madurai");
writer.WriteEndElement();
  
#~ Write the price.
writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");

#~ Write the style element.
writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
writer.WriteEndElement();

#~ Write the end tag for the book element.
writer.WriteEndElement();

#~ Write the close tag for the root element.
writer.WriteEndElement();
 
#~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
writer.Flush();
writer.Close();

#~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
doc = XmlDocument();
#~ Preserve white space for readability.
doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
#~ Load the file
doc.Load(filename);

#~ Write the XML content to the console.
Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);


Boo:

import System
import System.Xml from System.Xml

filename = "test1.xml"
writer = XmlTextWriter(filename, null);
#~ Use indenting for readability.
writer.Formatting = Formatting.Indented;

writer.WriteComment("XML in Boo Language");

#~ Write an element (this one is the root).
writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");

#~ Write the namespace declaration.
writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", null,
"urn:schoolnames");

writer.WriteStartElement("School");

#~ Lookup the prefix and then write the ISBN attribute.
prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
writer.WriteEndAttribute();     

#~ Write the title.
writer.WriteStartElement("city");
writer.WriteString("Madurai");
writer.WriteEndElement();
  
#~ Write the price.
writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");

#~ Write the style element.
writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
writer.WriteEndElement();

#~ Write the end tag for the book element.
writer.WriteEndElement();

#~ Write the close tag for the root element.
writer.WriteEndElement();
 
#~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
writer.Flush();
writer.Close();

#~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
doc = XmlDocument();
#~ Preserve white space for readability.
doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
#~ Load the file
doc.Load(filename);

#~ Write the XML content to the console.
Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct  5 17:46:56 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:46:56 -0500
Subject: Memory grows (without bound); doesn't if code is in function
In-Reply-To: <41630eee$0$48933$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.4355.1096993003.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41630eee$0$48933$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20041005214656.GA9023@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 11:15:27PM +0200, Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Weird. This program runs fine on my systems (win xp and mandrake-linux 10.0,
> both usig python 2.3.4 ... using about 3.5 to 4mb memory.)
> Perhaps it's a python 2.3.2 thing that was fixed in 2.3.3 or 2.3.4?

Yep, I can't reproduce the behavior on 2.3.3 (Fedora Core 2).  I guess
I should have checked.

The only thing I can think of that might be relevant is
	A subtle change to the semantics of the built-in function
	intern(): interned strings are no longer immortal. You must keep a
	reference to the return value intern() around to get the benefit.
(if the numbers produced by str() were interned) but this change was in
2.3.2's news file, not 2.3.3.

Jeff
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From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct  4 23:20:00 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:20:00 -0400
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <cjsn7p$3m8$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <41616B9B.1080009@fastmail.fm> <cjsn7p$3m8$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <416212E0.70704@fastmail.fm>

Terry Reedy wrote:

>"Arich Chanachai" <macrocosm at fastmail.fm> wrote in message 
>news:41616B9B.1080009 at fastmail.fm...
>  
>
>>How hard/easy is it to extend the Python syntax?
>> Perhaps there are  macro facilities for this?
>>    
>>
>
>No, there is intentionally nothing like Lisp macros as part of the standard 
>distribution.  There was some discussion on this topic about a year ago.
>
>tjr
>
>
>
>  
>
Peoples didn't like the idea eh?


From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Sat Oct 23 15:53:48 2004
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:53:48 +0100
Subject: Slow debugging with Komodo
In-Reply-To: <417a8d3e$0$1161$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
References: <417a8d3e$0$1161$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <417ab6cd$0$27540$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>

> On my dev machine (P4 1.7Ghz Win2K) debugging with Komodo is painfuly 
> slow. There is a delay of several seconds when stepping over a single 
> line of code. Debugging the same code with Pythonwin is very quick. Does 
> anyone else experience slow debugging, and is there anyway to speed it up?

Figured it out..

I was testing Komodo 3 with the file 'xmlrpcdemo.py', and once an 
instance of xmlrpclib.Server was created and displayed in either Locals 
or the Watch tab, it slowed way down. It seems that when Komodo inspects 
this object there is network activity as it contacts the http server! 
Other scripts dont show this slowdown.


Will McGugan


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sat Oct 16 08:20:08 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:20:08 +0100
Subject: undefined variable ?
In-Reply-To: <ckqqlb$l0v$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <ckqqlb$l0v$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <ckr3lp$9fq$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

vertigo wrote:

> How can i check if variable named var1 exists ?

It's frequently a better approach to assume that it does and catch an 
exception if it doesn't.

try:
     var1
except NameError:
     var1 = "neW"

But why do you want to do this?
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From ville at spammers.com  Thu Oct 21 16:05:17 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 23:05:17 +0300
Subject: Multiple Dispatch (was: Re: Method Underscores?)
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<mailman.5249.1098340790.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cdJdd.5313$WN5.3726@trndny08>
	<1gm05gb.1251x8o3h0barN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cl8qkb$9ps$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <du77jpjalc2.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Rocco" == Rocco Moretti <roccomoretti at hotpop.com> writes:

    Rocco> Alex Martelli wrote:

    Rocco> What's the issue with adding multiple dispatch to Python, then?

...

    Rocco> If-you-need-it,-it's-easy-enough-to-use-a-library,

Isn't that enough?

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From Anna at nospam.invalid  Mon Oct 18 20:27:16 2004
From: Anna at nospam.invalid (Ann)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:27:16 GMT
Subject: Python + Java knowledge
References: <41743e26$1@news.unimelb.edu.au> <xrYcd.272267$D%.25120@attbi_s51>
	<41745cdf$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <EbZcd.205892$wV.176571@attbi_s54>


"Maurice LING" <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote in message
news:41745cdf$1 at news.unimelb.edu.au...
> Ann wrote:
> > "Maurice LING" <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote in message
> > news:41743e26$1 at news.unimelb.edu.au...
> >
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>I've learnt and used Java and Python for a few years now, on bits of my
> >>thesis work etc etc. I will have to say that I love both languages and
> >>the possibilities they can provide. More recently, due to the toolkit
> >>that I use, I've been using Python. And I found that my Jva knowledge
> >>slacks a little. So, I'm looking for some tips on how to maintain the
> >>knowledge on both areas.
> >>
> >>Has anyone done it?
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>Maurice
> >
> >
> > I would say to look for some of those "what's different in xxx" files
> > and go from there.
> >
> >
>
> Thanks. Maybe I should say that I knew and had used both Python and Java
> and had used them in one way or another. I also knew and had used
> Jython. I am more interested about how both can complement each other.
> My problem is that as I used one of the two in a project (say Python),
> my knowledge on the other one (Java) slacks off a bit and finds that I
> have to re-learn parts of Java if I need it again... Is this a problem
> of no solution or are there some tips to reduce the rate of slack off in
>   knowledge?

I hear yoga is good for this kind of thing.

>
> I must say that Python/Jython/Java package rings so homely that I will
> love to keep.
>
> Thanks
> Maurice




From russblau at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  5 12:14:16 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:14:16 -0400
Subject: convert scientific integer to normal integer
References: <a2972632.0410050751.6b0b39d@posting.google.com>
	<yDz8d.667038$Gx4.100104@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <2sfvipF1jt0aiU1@uni-berlin.de>

"wes weston" <wweston at att.net> wrote in message
news:yDz8d.667038$Gx4.100104 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> les ander wrote:
> > Hi,
> > i have a file with lines like this:
> >   1.7000000e+01   2.4000000e+01   1.0000000e+00   8.0000000e+00
1.5000000e+01
> >   2.3000000e+01   5.0000000e+00   7.0000000e+00   1.4000000e+01
1.6000000e+01
> >   4.0000000e+00   6.0000000e+00   1.3000000e+01   2.0000000e+01
2.2000000e+01
> >   1.0000000e+01   1.2000000e+01   1.9000000e+01   2.1000000e+01
3.0000000e+00
> >   1.1000000e+01   1.8000000e+01   2.5000000e+01   2.0000000e+00
9.0000000e+00
> >
> > Notice that they are all integers.
> > What I want to do is write them out in a regular way, by which I mean
that the
> > output should look like this:
> > 17 24 1 9 15
> > 23 5 7 14 16
> > etc
> >
> > I tried the following but it did not work:
> > fp=open(argv[1])
> > for x in fp:
> >   xc=[int(e) for e in x.split()]
> >   print " ".join(xc)
> >
> >
> > any help would be much appreciated
>
> Les,
>  >>> x=eval('1.7000000e+01')
>  >>> x
> 17.0
>  >>>
> wes

Erm, yes, but there is almost always a better way than eval().

Note the following:

>>> float('1.700000e+01')
17.0
>>> int('1.700000e+01')

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#1>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    int('1.700000e+01')
ValueError: invalid literal for int(): 1.700000e+01
>>> int(float('1.70000e+01'))
17

This should be enough to allow you to parse your values, assuming you are
really sure that they are always going to be integers.


-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct  5 21:55:47 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:55:47 -0400
Subject: Logging VNC Hits
In-Reply-To: <9d393e9d.0410051029.6a35c796@posting.google.com>
References: <9d393e9d.0410051029.6a35c796@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <CuWdnbzaJ90-zf7cRVn-hg@powergate.ca>

scott wrote:
> Does anyone have an example of a script that can log when/ if someone
> VNC's into your PC?

Since I don't see a response already:

1. Doesn't whatever VNC server/daemon you are using already do that?
    Just watch that log.

2. Consider configuring your firewall to log when that kind of
    activity occurs (but still allow it through), and watch that log.

3. What platform, what VNC?

4. No, I don't have an example. :-)

-Peter


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 04:44:40 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 01:44:40 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <20041025223914.0B2C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<20041027030115.82565.qmail@web20427.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5543.1098852393.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<940ee3e8.0410270506.3754043f@posting.google.com>
	<bdOfd.18743$%t3.5615@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410280044.1802a7f8@posting.google.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<bdOfd.18743$%t3.5615 at lakeread01>...
> [...] let me respond with a heartfelt "Welcome to c.l.py".
> benn-known-to-have-to-apologize-myself-ly y'rs  - steve

Thank you very much.

-kartik.


From jason at giangrande.org  Thu Oct 14 17:09:35 2004
From: jason at giangrande.org (Jason Giangrande)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:09:35 -0400
Subject: Python with ASP
Message-ID: <416EEB0F.5010408@giangrande.org>

The company I work for uses ASP and VBScript.  I likely can not get them 
to change from ASP, but I thought that I might at least be able to 
convince them of a switch to ASP using Python.  I am the only coder here 
and I know Python better than VB, though I am far from an expert in 
Python either.  That said, I am getting better with VB, and have come to 
realize that it is indeed an inane language.  So far I have found very 
little information on the web talking about using Python as the language 
with ASP.  That which I have found thus far, has been negative.  Here 
are a few questions for those that have used Python with ASP in the past 
or are currently using it.

Does ASP have any major problems using Python as it's programming language?

Is there any documentation on using Python with ASP?  So far I have 
found very little.

Have those who used Python with ASP found that it caused any problems 
with IIS, or caused it to use more resources?  This is one of the IT 
Administrator's concerns.

Is there anything else I should know before I make my pitch to use 
Python with ASP?

-- 
Jason Giangrande <jason at giangrande.org>
http://www.giangrande.org
http://www.dogsiview.com



From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Thu Oct 14 21:02:48 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 01:02:48 GMT
Subject: Email problem
References: <mailman.4979.1097800413.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20041014210248.03437.00001265@mb-m27.aol.com>

Thanks for the advice, that is a much more efficient way of getting the message
together.  It didn't help though.  I probably should add that the problem with
the '='s added in has occured so far in my limited testing with AOL and
ubi.com, other's have not had that problem.  


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 19 13:32:58 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:32:58 -0700
Subject: By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <8C8685E8-2199-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
References: <20041018133211.0A4B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<8C8685E8-2199-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041019093411.0A6B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> > I agree with most everything you have said, though consider the pointer
> > vs. value of C to define the semantics of the passing.  That is, if you
> > get a pointer in C, it is by reference.  If you don't get a pointer, it
> > is by value.
> 
> I disagree: you get the value of the pointer.  If you assign to the 
> barename of the pointer, this has no effect on the caller.

[snip the remainder of the email]

Sounds good.  Now with the semantic arguments out of the way, is there a
link where the equivalent of what was just said is available in the
documentation?

If yes, great.  If not, perhaps what has been discussed should be
slimmed down and inserted into the FAQ so that future generations don't
need to rehash this conversation.


 - Josiah



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Oct  5 11:55:33 2004
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 08:55:33 -0700
Subject: XML and UnicodeError
References: <Xns9578AE59045A7devnulloo@130.133.1.19>
	<5339b60d.0410050013.6bbc673d@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957977C1D83A7devnulloo@130.133.1.19>
	<just-EE3837.12524305102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <5339b60d.0410050755.5d12ef3c@posting.google.com>

Just <just at xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<just-EE3837.12524305102004 at news1.news.xs4all.nl>...
> In article <Xns957977C1D83A7devnulloo at 130.133.1.19>,
>  Pinke Panke <dev at null.oo> wrote:
> 
> > fill = "bar".encode('utf-8') # lets make it unicode
> 
> That's not making it unicode; you mean
> 
>   fill = unicode("bar", "utf-8")
> 
> (Or "bar".decode("utf-8"), which does the same; I prefer using the 
> unicode builtin.)

So do I - it can be confusing to think of performing a decoding
operation on a string which yields a Unicode object as a result.

> > But now, I would think the safest way is to transfer all plain strings 
> > in the python script into a second XML file and use them, because 
> > after reading in they would be in Unicode. Right?
> 
> Yes, but there's no need to. Are you perhaps using string literals 
> containing non-ascii chars, yet don't use the 'u' prefix? u"\xff" as 
> opposed to "\xff".

Having non-ASCII characters appear in string literals in the source
code can be somewhat risky, but there's always the encoding
declaration added in Python 2.3 to control the situation. Just
remember to convert any plain strings to Unicode in the program code.

> > Or saving the python script in utf-8 would make the difference?
> 
> Depends...

...on that encoding declaration amongst other things.

> > >   4. Serialise to your chosen encoding only when preparing
> > >      output.
> > 
> > Every string concatenation in my script is preparing output.
> 
> Do _all_ manipulations using unicode, and convert to utf-8 as late as 
> poosible, ie. when you're passing the result to code that expects 
> non-unicode data. That's basically what he was saying.

Yes, if you introduce a plain string anywhere, convert it to Unicode
as soon as you can, especially since such data always has a habit of
getting into those Unicode-related operations even though you didn't
think that it would. Once the different substitutions and other
processing is done, you may want to convert the Unicode values back to
plain strings, although I often find that this doesn't need doing
before a program's final output is prepared (and in the case of XML
serialisation, you want to leave this to the serialiser anyway, since
it will also write out which encoding it used when serialising).

Paul


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 17:45:20 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:45:20 +0200
Subject: python preallocate some integers?
References: <mailman.5178.1098204025.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glxg7o.8h5pvu2v8gqlN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dave Reed <drlinux at columbus.rr.com> wrote:

> I seem to recall somewhere, possibly in the Python Essential Reference
> (but unfortunately, books don't have a "find" function), that Python
> preallocates and never destroys the first 100 integers. A minute of
> google searching didn't help me so I tried some simple tests. Based on
> these, it appears that only one copy of the integers -5 through 99 is
> created.
> 
> Can someone please verify this for me or tell me what is done with
> regard to this?

In the current implementation, that is indeed the case.  Of course,
since it's strictly an optimization issue, that's a detail which could
change even between one subrelease and the next, so make sure your
application doesn't depend on it.


Alex


From busyman at macnews.de  Fri Oct  8 06:46:21 2004
From: busyman at macnews.de (Busyman)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 03:46:21 -0700
Subject: How to determine if a file is busy?
Message-ID: <c89d662c.0410080246.52ed9407@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have written a stay-open-AppleScript for Mac OS X, gathering certain
informations from different apps, which can only be gathered via
AppleScript. This script writes its informations into a simple text
file, every 15 seconds. And a python script is supposed to read this
text file on a regular basis in order to feed the aquired datat into a
database working only on Windows. Now the problem: How can I prevent
that the python script reads the content of the text file, while my
AppleScripts writes new information to it? Is there any 'busy'-status
for files?

Thanks in advance from cold and cloudy Germany!

Martin


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct  9 16:56:29 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 13:56:29 -0700
Subject: integer type conversion problem/question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0410091619420.8590@Chrestomanci>
References: <20041009124139.EDB7.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<Pine.LNX.4.61.0410091619420.8590@Chrestomanci>
Message-ID: <20041009135423.0881.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> I'd looked at this earlier, but they didn't seem to have implemented a C 
> API. If there is one, I haven't been able to find it in 
> http://python.org/doc/2.3.4/api/api.html or anywhere else. I don't want to 
> import Python code into C/C++ even if that is possible. I think it is 
> easiest to work with a straight C/C++ library and interface it with 
> Python, assuming that I don't run into type conversion issues.

So what you are saying is that you have some C code that needs to use
random numbers, and that some higher-level Python module uses the output
from your module.

> A random number C module does exist in Python 2.3. On my system (Debian 
> Sarge) it is /usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload/_random.so. However, it is 
> probably not set up to be directly accessed from C/C++ code.

I would suggest borrowing the necessary parts of _random.c, and call it
good.  It is available via CVS in src/Modules .


 - Josiah



From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  5 00:16:11 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 04:16:11 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4293.1096947506.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<KUo8d.3033$UP1.1475@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4303.1096948810.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4162200b$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:

> When I said "harsh", I meant being accused of trolling,
> attempting to annoy, stir trouble, etc.  None which was my
> intent nor did I think that my post would be interpreted as
> such (otherwise I wouldn't have posted it).

If you honestly didn't think you were being rude and weren't
going to annoy anybody, you really, really do need to read how
to ask questions the smart way.  c.l.p is a very kind place,
but should somebody as naive as you wander into the rest of
Usenet... well, I just don't like to think of what might
happen.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  HELLO, little boys!
                                  at               Gimme a MINT TULIP!! Let's
                               visi.com            do the BOSSA NOVA!!


From noemail at spam.net  Mon Oct 18 11:38:37 2004
From: noemail at spam.net (Roger Irwin)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:38:37 GMT
Subject: By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>

Riccardo Rossi wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> How does Python pass arguments to a function? By value or by reference?
> 
> Thanks,
> Riccardo Rossi. 
> 
> 
By reference to an object....See the python tutorial.


From zathras at thwackety.com  Sat Oct 16 07:52:58 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:52:58 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <7x4qkvnp92.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410161252080.12653-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On 15 Oct 2004, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> > Haven't operating systems been written in most of those languages? For
> > a sufficiently loose definition of OS, of course.
>
> I'm amazed no one has mentioned the Lisp machine.

Does this mean the thread is now over?

;-)

Michael.



From foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid  Tue Oct  5 13:58:03 2004
From: foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid (Thomas Rast)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 19:58:03 +0200
Subject: re bug
References: <3e96ebd7.0410050057.29a15174@posting.google.com>
	<87hdp94cc4.fsf@thomas.local>
	<mailman.4361.1096997821.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <877jq53v4k.fsf@thomas.local>

Gustavo Niemeyer <niemeyer at conectiva.com> writes:

> That's not the same regular expression. You must escape whitespaces
> when using re.VERBOSE.

As far as I can see, I did, except in character classes, and quoting
from the 're' manual:

] X
] VERBOSE
] This flag allows you to write regular expressions that look
] nicer. Whitespace within the pattern is ignored, except when in a
] character class or preceded by an unescaped backslash [...]

> The problem is not just the number of repeating qualifiers, but
> the nesting of them. Nesting repeating qualifiers deeply is a good
> way to kill regular expression engines.
[...]

I actually tried the example stated in 'man perlre', translated to
python:

>>> import re
>>> r=re.compile('((a{0,5}){0,5})*[c]')
>>> r.match('a'*10)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
RuntimeError: maximum recursion limit exceeded

but apparently there are ways to nest the backtracking without hitting
recursion limits.

- Thomas

-- 
If you want to reply by mail, substitute my first and last name for
'foo' and 'bar', respectively, and remove '.invalid'.


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 07:18:14 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 04:18:14 -0700
Subject: locks
In-Reply-To: <1097665551.416d0c0f7bef5@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>
References: <1097665551.416d0c0f7bef5@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1097666295.12092.40.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 21:05 +1000, Ajay wrote:
> hi!
> 
> what would happen if i try to access a variable locked by another thread? i
> am not trying to obtain a lock on it, just trying to access it.

First of all, why not just try it and see?  Secondly, nothing will
prevent you from accessing it.  Locks in Python are advisory only.  Just
be aware that locks typically exist for a reason.  Just because you
aren't modifying the variable doesn't mean you won't shoot yourself in
the foot.  If the variable is mutable (such as a list or dictionary),
then you risk seeing a partially updated variable if the other thread is
in the midst of updating it.  This may be acceptable for your
application or it may not.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct  3 02:50:10 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 23:50:10 -0700
Subject: wxPython: "Nesting" wx.NoteBooks?
References: <39cbe663.0410011155.1da62051@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <88e23673.0410022250.4f8a2933@posting.google.com>

> However, what I get is only the "first level", i.e. a normal NoteBook
> with three tabs. Is it possible to get the "second level tabs"
> working?

Though it is ugly, yes, it can be done.  Nearly anything can be done
with wxPython, you just need to structure it correctly.

import wx
#____________________________

class MainWindow(wx.Frame):
    def __init__(self,parent,id,title):
        self.dirname=''
        wx.Frame.__init__(self,parent,-4, title,
style=wx.DEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE)
        self.Notebook =
wx.Notebook(self,-1,wx.DefaultPosition,wx.DefaultSize,wx.NB_TOP)
        self.SubNoteBooks = []
        
        for subnotebook in xrange(3):
            self.SubNoteBooks.append(wx.Notebook(self.Notebook, -1))
            self.Notebook.AddPage(self.SubNoteBooks[-1],
                                  'Tab %i'%subnotebook)
            for i in xrange(3):
                self.SubNoteBooks[-1].AddPage(wx.Panel(
                 self.SubNoteBooks[-1], -1),
                 'SubTab %i %i'%(subnotebook,i))

app = wx.PySimpleApp()
frame = MainWindow(None, -1, "MultiTabControl")
frame.Show(1)
app.MainLoop()


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 23:48:38 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 03:48:38 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <mailman.5478.1098762252.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417dc916$0$71139$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-26, Tim Churches <tchur at optushome.com.au> wrote:

> But we stray off topic - unless GPLed Python (or other) code
> provides specific exemptions, any Python code which imports
> that GPLed code also needs to be licensed under the GPL or
> equivalent if that code is to be distributed to others.

Now if I could just remember which library I was concerned
about to start with... :/

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I like your SNOOPY
                                  at               POSTER!!
                               visi.com            


From remco at tomaatnet.nl  Fri Oct  8 06:39:49 2004
From: remco at tomaatnet.nl (Remco Boerma)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:39:49 +0100
Subject: pythondoc or epydoc?
In-Reply-To: <cjr2n0$17v1@qum07.mms-dresden.de>
References: <cjr2n0$17v1@qum07.mms-dresden.de>
Message-ID: <ck5mv6$ou3$1@sea.gmane.org>

Christian Helmbold wrote:

> So I want to know what you suggest: pythondoc, epydoc or something
> else? What is more 'offical'?

Using epydoc (as i've used that one before) give's you the option to use 
reStructuredText. With that, it's very easy to get some markup and 
special meaning to your documentation. It's capable of javadoc like 
syntax and reST. . . But be carefull though, as epydoc imports your 
modules, so make sure every module you have that ought to do something 
automagically uses something like:

[code]
if __name__ == "__main__":
	pass #code here
[/code]

else, it will be run everytime you generate your code :) [i've had that 
with a QUAD cleanup script- so everything was cleaned allright]

Cheers!
Remco Boerma



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Wed Oct 27 09:09:51 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:09:51 GMT
Subject: Open Source License Question
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<2u9hklF24n4b1U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<T82dnedQ8YiFBuLcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <z6Nfd.755$K7.388@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Istvan Albert:

> By the way Fuzzy, just release your software with your own
> licensing scheme. If you don't like any of the available OSI
> licenses then don't use them, as simple as that.

   Then you receive boring mails about what exactly your license means and
"why don't you change the license to something I know like the GPL"? License
questions must be the most boring part of running an OS project and I would
love to be able to just renounce copyright on my work but it no longer
appears possible.

   Neil





From nick at craig-wood.com  Fri Oct  8 03:29:57 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 08 Oct 2004 07:29:57 GMT
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <slrncmcf1i.dku.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >     sentinel = []
> 
>  It's fine, but I would still suggest using the Canonical Pythonic Way To
>  Make a Sentinel Object:
> 
>      sentinel = object()
> 
>  Since an immediate instance of type object has no possible use except as
>  a unique, distinguishable placeholder, ``this thing here is a sentinel''.

Yes a good idiom which I didn't know (still learning) - thanks!

This only works in python >= 2.2 according to my tests.

Its also half the speed and 4 times the typing

  $ /usr/lib/python2.3/timeit.py 'object()'
  1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.674 usec per loop
  $ /usr/lib/python2.3/timeit.py '[]'
  1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.369 usec per loop

But who's counting ;-)

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From gdamjan at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 15:46:19 2004
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (Damjan)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:46:19 +0200
Subject: ReportLab newbie
Message-ID: <2uac8bF2802bfU1@uni-berlin.de>

I'm trying this script with reportlab:

from reportlab.pdfbase import pdfmetrics
from reportlab.pdfbase.ttfonts import TTFont
fontname = 'Arial-Bold'
my_TTF = '/opt/Fonts/arial.ttf'
font = TTFont(fontname, my_TTF)
pdfmetrics.registerFont(font)

But the register complains with this exception:

ValueError: _tt2ps_map[('arial', 1, 0)]==Arial-Bold already, not Arial

what does it mean?

-- 
damjan


From matt.torment at gmail.com  Sun Oct 17 01:06:55 2004
From: matt.torment at gmail.com (Matthew K Jensen)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 22:06:55 -0700
Subject: Poll script in Python
References: <81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5043.1097937424.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<81a41dd.0410161038.af422a0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a8dfce8c.0410162106.29dea3a7@posting.google.com>

export at hope.cz (Lad) wrote in message news:<81a41dd.0410161038.af422a0 at posting.google.com>...
> Josh Close <narshe at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.5043.1097937424.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > On 16 Oct 2004 03:59:05 -0700, Lad <export at hope.cz> wrote:
> > > Is there a poll script available in Python?
> > 
> > Can you be more specific? Are you talking about socket polling? Or a
> > web poll? Etc?
> > 
> About web poll
> Lad

When in doubt, make your own :) !!!


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 27 09:14:49 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:14:49 -0400
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Ac-dnbIMN53VAuLcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>

Michael Foord wrote:
> I'd also like to prevent people
> selling derivative works where my stuff forms the substantial part of
> the product.

If you can get yourself over this philosophical hump, you're
all set.

Can you see it differently, sort of like "if someone else is
selling something based largely on my work, they've just
identified a nice juicy market which I could get into very
easily"?  And as the original author, you might even be
able to steal their customers from them without much effort.

-Peter


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct  9 03:55:00 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 07:55:00 GMT
Subject: xml file structure for use with ElementTree?
In-Reply-To: <d4c0d480.0410082230.29766fac@posting.google.com>
References: <d4c0d480.0410082230.29766fac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oPM9d.172$Bw1.90@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Stewart Midwinter wrote:
> <?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8'?>
> <population>
> <person><name="joe" sex="male" age="49"></person>
> <person><name="hilda" sex="female" age="33"></person>
> <person><name="bartholomew" sex="male" age="17">
> </person>
> </population>

> This script works if I have only one <person> record, but with more
> than one record, it fails with the following error:
   ...
> xml.parsers.expat.ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 3,
> column 13
> 
> What am I doing wrong?  Do I need to describe the xml structure in
> some way?

This says your XML is not valid XML.  The problem is on
line 3 column 13, which is the "=".  You can't do that.
Legal XML would look like

  <person name="joe" sex="male" age="49"></person>

or more concisely for empty elements

  <person name="joe" sex="male" age="49"/>


> 2nd question. Assuming I can read and parse this file, I can create
> and add an element to the tree.  But how would I go about deleting
> from the tree the <person> record for, say, name='joe'?

from elementtree import ElementTree

tree = ElementTree.parse("tmp.xml").getroot()

for person in tree.findall("person"):
   if person.attrib["name"] == "joe":
     tree.remove(person)
     break
else:
   raise AssertionError("Where's joe?")


 >>> ElementTree.dump(tree)
<population>
<person age="33" name="hilda" sex="female" />
<person age="17" name="bartholomew" sex="male">
</person>
</population>
 >>>


> Is there a source of tutorial information anywhere for the use of
> ElementTree? I'm looking for a few more examples than those contained
> on the effbot.org site - none of which seem to address the question of
> input file structure.

The effbot site, and its links to articles by Uche and David,
is the best source for documentation.

Given what you've shown, you need a reference to XML
and not ElementTree.  The latter assumes you understand
the former.  I don't have one handy.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 14 15:20:08 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:20:08 -0400
Subject: String manipulation advice needed. Thanks.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4945.1097763817.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4945.1097763817.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <56WdnQ94cuv6TPPcRVn-jg@powergate.ca>

Raaijmakers, Vincent (GE Infrastructure) wrote:
> Pfew guys.. I'm indeed in a learning phase..if you never worked with this, tough!

We've all been there.  I don't think regular expressions are obvious
to anyone.  Nevertheless, we've also most of us gotten into trouble
*over-using* them, and while they are certainly a real boon in some
cases, it's good to know their limits and it's good to know the
alternatives.

-Peter


From cce at clarkevans.com  Mon Oct 11 14:08:05 2004
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:08:05 -0400
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041011180805.GA93776@prometheusresearch.com>

On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 10:54:05AM -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
| I don't agree.  I *still* have to stop and think every time I see a 
| lamba -- they parse completely differently in my mind than anything else 
| in Python does, and they confuse me every time.  Yes, defining a small 
| function requires two extra lines... but, y'know, it's not like my 
| editor is going to run out of paper.  And I find that a well-chosen 
| name, even for a single-use thing like this, greatly adds clarity.  To 
| my mind, calling this func_callback(), or some such descriptive name, 
| makes the intent *much* more clear than 'lambda' does.

I beg to differ; and I'm talking about _my_ code, not yours.

| Only when one is already familiar with lambdas.  I've gotten to the 
| point where I *can* understand them, but it's still a struggle.  It 
| seems to me that the benefits of having lambda are outweighed by the 
| fair amount of extra mental space that they use up.  It just strikes me 
| as too much of a special case to deserve special syntax that has 
| absolutely no parallel elsewhere in Python.

If you don't like lambda -- don't use it.   Just beacuse you are
unfamilar with a very helpful construct and are unwilling to learn
does not mean you should prevent others from continuing to enjoy 
one of the more pleasant aspects of Python.

Kind Regards,

Clark


From pcslen at comcast.net  Thu Oct  7 10:05:10 2004
From: pcslen at comcast.net (Len Sumnler)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:05:10 GMT
Subject: 2 Newbie questions.
In-Reply-To: <slrncm9qbu.sfd.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <Tl49d.425544$8_6.322047@attbi_s04>
	<slrncm9qbu.sfd.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <q2c9d.138661$wV.45273@attbi_s54>

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> Len Sumnler <pcslen at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>> I am running SuSe Linux ver. 9.0. I have written the famous "Hello 
>> World" program and want to run it as an executable.  I have searched the 
>> net and performed chmod +x mypython.py and added as the first line of my 
>> program #!/usr/bin/env python.  When I try to run the program as follows
>> $ mypython.py I get the error message of,
>> "bash: mypython.py: command not found".  What am i doing wrong.
> 
> 
> The current directory isn't in your PATH.  I don't suggest you add it
> - its not there for good security reasons.  Instead invoke your
> program like this...
> 
> ./mypython.py
> 
> 
>> Second, I am looking for a good online tutorial for some one who knows 
>> other programming languages assembler, cobol, etc any suggestions.
> 
> 
> I've recently finished (the book version) of
> http://www.diveintopython.org/ - excellent for experienced
> programmers!
> 
Thanks for the reply.

I understand the path warning. Appreciate your time.

Len Sumnler


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Oct 11 22:38:05 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:38:05 -0700
Subject: understanding generators  and functions with arguments
In-Reply-To: <c6dd4e35.0410111700.2be6c24c@posting.google.com>
References: <c6dd4e35.0410111700.2be6c24c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416b48c5$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

caw at southernhealth.org.au wrote:
> def msg(text):
>     def decorate(f):
>         def new_f(*args):
>             print text, f(*args)
>         return new_f
>     return decorate
> 
> @msg("Hello, ")
> def f1(s):
>     return s
...
> I don't understand the scope of *args, as seen in the argument list of
> new_f. It doesn't appear to be in the static scope of msg, or decorate
> or new_f...
OK, I would probably write this as:
     def msg(text):
         def decorate(f):
             def new_f(*args, **kwargs):
                 print text, f(*args, **kwargs)
             return new_f
         return decorate

That is, the *args in your example, and my "*args, **kwargs" are both
meant to represent the parameters passed to the "wrapped" function f.
My example would allow a line in the main section:

     f1(s=42)

while your form would fail on that call.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From cmkleffner at gmx.de  Wed Oct 20 03:08:56 2004
From: cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 00:08:56 -0700
Subject: popen and two-way communication
References: <cl1gmk$rgq$1@newshost.mot.com>
	<3b091a1c.0410190355.5543b3e1@posting.google.com>
	<10nbdakhv1indf2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3b091a1c.0410192308.4b5e397b@posting.google.com>

Expect-like functionality is not supported with subprocess.py 
says the PEP. However, Cygwin Python is supported by pexpect AFAIK. 
See http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/

Regards 

Carl

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message news:<10nbdakhv1indf2 at corp.supernews.com>...
> 
> Admittedly, I haven't tested subprocess.  But interacting with SSH or 
> gpg or most other password-requesting programs doesn't work properly 
> through pipes.  These programs read directly from the controlling TTY, 
> rather than from stdin.  Pipes don't affect the controlling TTY, meaning 
> that you'll *still* be prompted for the password. 
> 
> In short, some version of (or replacement for) Expect is probably still 
> needed.  It is indeed too bad that pexpect won't work on Windows, or 
> more accurately that the pty which pexpect relies on doesn't work on 
> Windows...  (Fortunately for me, I need to run ssh on Linux, so pexpect 
> should serve my purposes just fine.)
> 
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 11:33:20 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:33:20 +0100
Subject: Web Stats Via CGI
Message-ID: <e838m05h9co5bfqhpk4cp8hq700qeb2vhq@4ax.com>

I've written a CGI that combines with a little bit of client side
Javascript. It gathers web usage statistics like
http://www.sitemeter.com

So far I've only got as far as grabbing the information - not
presenting it. If anyone wants a sneak preview it's called pystat. You
can see it in action  at http://www.voidspace.xennos.com/pystat.html
gathers the 'hits' whilst
http://www.voidspace.xennos.com/cgi-bin/pystat.py?site=voidspace
presents the data.

I have no problem gathering the data I need from the CGI/javascript
combination but mining meaningful data from the results will be a bit
of work. Before I explain the problem I have two basic needs :

A pure python graphics library - to produce graphs with.
I can't install PIL (or anything on the server)  and wondered if
anyone knew of or could reccommend a pure python one. I haven't
googled yet, but if anyone knows of a good one it would be handy.

Secondly can anyone reccommend an approach to storing the data and
analysing it ?

The information will be page visited, date and time, refferer URL, and
user-agent. Having gathered this information I would like to be able
to present averages per week, average per month, total per week, total
per month etc So the information needs to be stored and then analysed
by date. Now I could just store it in a dictionary keyed by day and
recalculate it all every time. I wondered if anyone else had already
'solved this problem'.

I'm wondering if I should set a cookie as well, so that I can gather
stuff like 'first visit' and returning visit and also distinguish
between individual users and page views.

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 23:50:58 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 20:50:58 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>	<Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA@giganews.com>	<940ee3e8.0410251937.5355a8c7@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5479.1098763359.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410261950.5a066c25@posting.google.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.5479.1098763359.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 20:37 -0700, kartik wrote:
> > Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote in message news:<Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA at giganews.com>...
> > > kartik wrote:
> > > 
> > > > there seems to be a serious problem with allowing numbers to grow in a
> > > > nearly unbounded manner, as int/long unification does: it hides bugs.
> > > 
> > > No it does not.
> > > 
> > > Just because a runaway program stops sooner by hitting the
> > > integer limit it does not mean that this having this limit
> > > is a validation method.
> > 
> > i didn't say it is. all i say is that it catches bugs - & that's
> > valuable.
> 
> You did say it is.  And then you said it again right there.

i think you are getting confused between a mechanism that catches some
bugs & one that can catch all (a validation method)

> > once again, i'm not relying on the integer limit to catch bugs, but
> > i'd much rather have bugs exposed by an overflow exception 
> 
> Again that is using the integer limit to catch bugs. Repeated self-
> contradiction does little to bolster your argument.
> 
> > > If you are worried about some numbers growing too much, then
> > > check them yourself, you'll get much better results that way.
> > 
> > maybe, why not use an automated test built-in 2 the language? i get it
> > 4 free.
> 
> Because, strangely enough, most people want limitations *removed* from
> the language, not added to it.  

limits that catch bugs are good. without *any* limitations, i should
be able to redefine the symbol "4" to mean "8". would you program in
such a language? i wouldn't

>If you are looking for a language with
> arbitrary limits then I think Python isn't quite right for you.

not arbitrary limits, but ones that catch bugs.


From mwh at python.net  Tue Oct  5 09:15:29 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:15:29 GMT
Subject: Embedding python with debugging features
References: <cjjurh$84t$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <m3vfdp487j.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Peter" <no at spam.com> writes:

> I'm considering to embed python in an application written in c++ and use it
> as a scripting language.
> Is it possible to provide debugging features?

What does that mean?  You want to use Python to debug the c++ app?
That's probably possible but would probably require so much work as to
not be a sensible course of action (unless your app is written from
the ground up to play nicely to the embedded python -- boost may do
nice things here, for instance).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  <shapr> ucking keyoar
                                                -- from Twisted.Quotes


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Oct 11 04:39:15 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:39:15 +0200
Subject: Save state of interpreter
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.11.08.39.15.396767@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi!

I want to save the state of the interpreter
for debugging. The variables of the methods
in the stacktrace should be saved.

cgitb seems like a good point to start, but
maybe someone has already done something like this?

 Thomas




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 13 06:52:57 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:52:57 GMT
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
References: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gljwcn.hu8qmfo9di8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416c7e11.110043444@news.oz.net>
	<1gllabm.igadlt1xcmxgqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416cfd61.142635999@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:18:28 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>   ...
>> >>>> class foo:
>> >...   def __getattr__(self, name):
>   ...
>> On my system, (NT4, python 2.3.2) what really happens for newstyle classes
>> isn't apparent from that experiment:
>
>Heh, of course not -- the main difference between old-style and
>new-style classes is that, for the latter, implicit lookup of special
>methods when needed for operations starts with the *class*, not with the
Well, it always starts with the class if there's no attribute on the instance,
but the key is whether the "implicit lookup" for methods needed for operations
uses an overridable __getattribute__ somewhere, or just chases down the bases
chain looking for the actual __gt__ or whatever, not allowing a hook to synthesize
a result.
>*instance*.  This is a fix of a long-standing design bug, because the
>old rule was just impossible to apply consistently -- if calling X meant
>looking for X.__call__ rather than X.__class__.__call__, how could you
>ever instantiate X by calling it, when X is a class whose _instances_
>are meant to be callable, for example?
>
>Since this has been discussed many times on this group, as well as in
>presentations, articles, websites, books, ..., I didn't think it was
>necessary to dwell on the issue again, considering it really did not
>affect the answer requested by the original poster; apparently I was
>wrong in so thinking.  _Sigh_ -- next time somebody criticizes my posts
>as being too long, I'll retort that of course they are, if I must keep
>repeating such issues!-)
>
I have suspected you of having voice recognition input ;-)
I don't type that fast, unfortunately.

>I just used an old-style class because, that way, I could show the
>lookups happening without having to code a custom metaclass.  The
Could you show such a metaclass? I have tried a few things and not succeeded.
It almost makes me think there is no place to hook the internal __getattribute__
that looks for the methods for code generated from 12<f and the like.
I'd be interested in seeing it.

>special names being looked for are just the same, whether for classic or
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ but maybe not the same order, see below 
>newstyle classes, anyway -- all that changes is _where_ they're looked
>up (starting on the instance, vs starting on the class).
>
> 
>>  >>> class foo(object):
>>  ...   def __getattr__(self, name):
>>  ...     print 'looking for %r' % name
>>  ...     raise AttributeError, name
>>  ...
>>  >>> f=foo()
>>  >>> 12 < f
>>  True
>> 
>> The old style does work much the same (but note the default end result ;-)
>> Is that a 2.3.2 bug?
>
>No bug: comparisons between objects of disparate types give essentially
>arbitrary results (repeatable within one run, but, at least in theory,
>potentially different among runs of the same program, I believe).
>
I tried a class with all the methods explicit, and then removed them:

 >>> class foo(object):
 ...     def __gt__(self, other): print 'gt'
 ...     def __coerce__(self, other): print 'coerce'
 ...     def __cmp__(self, other): print 'cmp'
 ...
 >>> f=foo()
 >>> 12<f
 gt

Ok, so it looked for __gt__ first. Remove that.
>>> del foo.__gt__

>>> 12<f
cmp
It seems to have looked for __cmp__ second, unlike in your post:

+---<from your post>------------------
Here's how to find out:

>>> class foo:
...   def __getattr__(self, name):
...     print 'looking for %r' % name
...     raise AttributeError, name
... 
>>> f=foo()
>>> 12 < f
looking for '__gt__'
looking for '__coerce__'
looking for '__cmp__'
True
>>> 
+-------------------------------------

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: an integer is required
(didn't like none back from cmp, presumably)

Ok, remove __cmp__
>>> del foo.__cmp__

One left:
>>> 12<f
coerce
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: __coerce__ didn't return a 2-tuple

NBD, but perhaps the order change is a version difference?
Not that the OP was asking any of this ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dr_burrito at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 01:11:19 2004
From: dr_burrito at yahoo.com (Fazan)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 22:11:19 -0700
Subject: wxPython - problem dynamically adding widgets?
References: <37f621d3.0410041214.305eb3e9@posting.google.com>
	<2didndileqMTf_zcRVn-qA@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <37f621d3.0410062111.62c8e304@posting.google.com>

Using the sample code, I was indeed able to get this to work using a
sizer.  It turns out that my problem was a threading issue; by
creating the widgets and adding to the sizer in different thread, the
hanging problem went away.

Thanks to everyone who helped out!


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Oct 11 22:54:11 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:54:11 -0400
Subject: BayPIGgies: October 14, 7:30pm
Message-ID: <20041012025410.GA15575@panix.com>

The next meeting of BayPIGgies will be Thurs October 14 at 7:30pm.  In
lieu of a speaker, we'll be having a Beginner's Roundtable run by Danny
Yoo.

BayPIGgies meetings are in Stanford, California.  For more information
and directions, see http://www.baypiggies.net/


Before the meeting, we may meet at 6pm for dinner in downtown Palo Alto.
Discussion of dinner plans is handled on the BayPIGgies mailing list.


Advance notice: The November 11 meeting agenda has not been set.  Please
send e-mail to baypiggies at baypiggies.net if you want to make a
presentation.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Sat Oct 30 03:01:43 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:01:43 -0700
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5700.1099118517.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5685.1099087062.5135.python-list@python.org>	<clv2bt$nl7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<mailman.5700.1099118517.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41833C57.8040006@ucsd.edu>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> Let us say that my commercial (non-GPL) software A links my GPL wrapper
> B.  Wrapper B links GPL'd library C.
> 
> B is the derivative of C, so must be GPL'd, and is.  Since B is owned by
> me, I can do what I want with it.  So I do what I want, I link it from
> my commercial software A.
> 
> Now, I can ship B and C as with a GPL license along with my non-GPL
> software, stating quite clearly that since I am the owner of B, I am
> going to link B as I find necessary.

You're still distributing C linked in with A. A derives from C. The fact 
that you've stuck B in the middle is irrelevant unless it's part of a 
communications bridge between a process consisting of A+B communication 
via some form of IPC (sockets, pipes, whatever, just not static or 
dynamic linking) with C (or A communicating with B+C, or A+B with B+C, 
however it's arranged).

> From what I understand, as long as B is nontrivial, the above is
> sufficient.  And as I said before, if the original posters are incorrect
> about this, so am I.
> 
> 
> With all that said, if one /could not/ use GPL'd libraries from
> commercial software, then nVidia and ATI would have lawyers knocking on
> their doors for not GPLing their video drivers, as technically, the
> nVidia drivers are derivative works of the Linux kernel.  Not being
> privy to the inner workings of nVidia nor ATI, I will not guess how they
> have managed to release binary-only drivers for linux, and will just say
> that it is being done.

They use a wrapper (they call it a "shim") somewhat similar to what you 
describe. The key difference is that their shim uses the standard kernel 
API to talk with the binary-only drivers in much the same way that a 
proprietary, binary-only application uses the standard kernel API. Using 
the standard kernel API is considered (at least by Linus; see COPYING in 
the Linux kernel distribution) to be *use* of the Linux kernel and thus 
unrestricted and not creating a derivative work.

Wrapping C with, for example, an XML-RPC interface (GPL-compatible 
license) and connecting to it via that interface from A 
(GPL-incompatible) would be the appropriate analogy here.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 26 01:57:18 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:57:18 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
References: <1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041025224622.0B32.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik) wrote:

> integers are used in different ways from strings. i may expect file
> paths to be around 100 characters, and if i get a 500-character path,
> i have no problem just because of the length. but if a person's age is
> 500 where i expect it to be less than 100, then **definitely**
> something's wrong.

So *you* need to do bounds checking.  Last time I checked, Python didn't
raise an overflow error on getting to 500, so you're going to need to do
the check anyways.


> as i look at my code, i rarely have an issue with string sizes, but if
> an integer variable gets very large (say > 2**31 or 2**63), it
> generally reflects a bug in my code.

And you should check that, and not rely on a misfeature and a mistake. 
It is going in whether you like it or not, and has been planned since
Python 2.3.


> i suggest u base your comments on real code, rather than reasoning in
> an abstract manner from your ivory tower.

Ahh, real code.  Ok *rummages through some code*.  Yeah, so I checked,
and I don't rely on overflow errors.  I use explicit bounds checking in
all cases where values outside my expected range can come.  Then again,
I prefer to check my variables when I rely on them.


 - Josiah



From theller at python.net  Tue Oct 12 12:15:05 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:15:05 +0200
Subject: Internet Explorer Bars From Python
References: <6f402501.0410120703.12e5b8e7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <r7o39aly.fsf@python.net>

fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) writes:

> I've been looking at a couple of Internet Explorer plugins. E.g.
> http://www.cheztabor.com/SourceTree/index.htm *or*
> http://www.blunck.info/iehttpheaders_workings.html  . I wondered if
> anyone had done anything like this using COM and Mark Hammonds
> extensions ?
>
> Anyone got any example code ?

AFAIK, pywin32 doesn't wrap the needed interfaces, but I may be wrong.
But ctypes has an explorer bar sample.

Thomas


From pcslen at comcast.net  Thu Oct  7 10:07:22 2004
From: pcslen at comcast.net (Len Sumnler)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:07:22 GMT
Subject: 2 Newbie questions.
In-Reply-To: <2skuevF1lun22U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <Tl49d.425544$8_6.322047@attbi_s04>
	<mailman.4475.1097130092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2skuevF1lun22U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <u4c9d.205342$D%.123154@attbi_s51>

Sibylle Koczian wrote:
> Steven Bethard schrieb:
> 
>> Len Sumnler <pcslen <at> comcast.net> writes:
>>
>>> I have searched the net and performed chmod +x mypython.py and added 
>>> as the first line of my program #!/usr/bin/env python.  When I try to 
>>> run the program as follows $ mypython.py I get the error message of, 
>>> "bash: mypython.py: command not found".  What am i doing wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not really a Python question, but maybe I can help anyway.  A couple 
>> of things to check:
>>
>> 1) Does "/usr/bin/env python" work at the shell prompt?  If not you 
>> probably don't have python on your path.
>>
>> 2) If "/usr/bin/env python" does work for you from the shell, did you 
>> create mypython.py on a Windows machine?  I've gotten these errors 
>> occasionally when moving a script from a Windows box to a Unix box 
>> because the shell doesn't like the \r's that Windows puts at the end 
>> of lines.  You could try using dos2unix or a similar script to remove 
>> these.
>>
> 3) I think it must be ./mypython.py - the script isn't automatically 
> searched for in the current directory. But it's quite right that this is 
> a unix/linux and not a Python question.
> 
> Sibylle
> 
Hello Sibylle

I appreciate the response and this has answered my question.

Len Sumnler


From lbates at syscononline.com  Tue Oct 19 10:10:33 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:10:33 -0500
Subject: manipulating PDF-files with Python?
In-Reply-To: <994828d9.0410190454.3217bebf@posting.google.com>
References: <994828d9.0410190454.3217bebf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <L6Sdnd9BkfnIvejcRVn-rQ@comcast.com>

Tuomas P wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> Are there any open source Python tools that one could manipulate
> PDF-files with? By manipulation I mean, for instance, deleting or
> adding or replacing  pages, etc.
> 
> Thanks for your time!
> 
> Tuomas

ReportLab has PageCatcher, but it is not open source.  I've used
it and it works great!  Given how much I use ReportLab open source
package, I don't begrudge spending some money on the PageCatcher
add-in for this functionality.

Regards,
Larry Bates


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Wed Oct 20 23:39:46 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 03:39:46 GMT
Subject: Exceptions
Message-ID: <20041020233946.16183.00000897@mb-m01.aol.com>

I feel really stupid for asking this, but I can't seem to find this in the
tutorial, or something I can make sense of in the module index.  in my except
block from my try except thing, I want to have a wxMessageBox which displays
the error message, but I don't know how to reference the actual message you get
with an error.


From Doran_Dermot at emc.com  Mon Oct 25 08:03:48 2004
From: Doran_Dermot at emc.com (Doran_Dermot at emc.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:03:48 +0100
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-functi
	on o  verloading.
Message-ID: <97B6410BE753D411894E00D0B77E6F7F018DCD00@neam2mx1.isus.emc.com>

Hi Michael,

Maybe I should change that to read "I prefer:" and "However, the second
version feels more natural to myself" ;-)

Thanks for all the info and useful comments!  I've reviewed how properties
work and they do seem to do what I want in a very neat way (the __doc__
feature is also very useful).  

Now I've just got to convince myself that I like the format!

Cheers!!

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+doran_dermot=emc.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+doran_dermot=emc.com at python.org]On Behalf Of
Michael Hoffman
Sent: 25 October 2004 12:49
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Implementing class attribute access methods via
pseudo-functi on o verloading.


Doran_Dermot at emc.com wrote:

> However, I wonder if people coming from the Java/C++ world prefer:
> theProblem.title( "The Title" )

Well I can only speak for myself, but I programmed in C++ before Python 
and I certainly don't prefer that. <wink> And I thought the Java 
convention was to have separate setTitle()/getTitle() accessor methods, 
so I'm not sure if anyone would be used to title().

I find the fact that Jython automatically translates:

print obj.attribute
obj.attribute = "foo"

into

print obj.getAttribute()
obj.setAttribute("foo")

to be a godsend.

> Obviously the first version is less typing! However, the second version
> might feel more natural to Java/C++ programmers.  Just an observation!

Well, you could just change the minimum amount of code/idioms to move 
from Java to Python, but then, why not just use Java?

<wink>
-- 
Michael Hoffman
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From mnations at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 00:17:17 2004
From: mnations at gmail.com (Mudcat)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 21:17:17 -0700
Subject: How do I check if Telnet session is open?
In-Reply-To: <4176f880$0$14941$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <1098222810.359040.241080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1098311316.261193.274170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4176e8a2$0$21106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<4176f880$0$14941$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1098332237.219021.277400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Irmen. That was the problem. Everything is working good now!



From rroberts at adobe.com  Fri Oct  8 12:59:50 2004
From: rroberts at adobe.com (Read Roberts)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:59:50 -0700
Subject: Problem with tkFileDialog.askdirectory(), Windows,
	and non-ascii paths
In-Reply-To: <faf44c99.0410080406.47aa8468@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4553.1097213592.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<faf44c99.0410080406.47aa8468@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <p06020400bd8c7705a2ef@[192.168.1.100]>

Thank your for your response. I did see your 
e-mail when googl'ing for similar issues. 
However, the problem you had was that the the 
object returned  on cancelling is different 
bertween Linux and Windows.

My problem is that when you do select a directory 
with the  tkFileDialog.askdirectory() , on 
Windows the object returned is a byte string, 
with the non-ascii characters converted  to '?". 
Applying the 'unicode" function to this cannot 
restore the lost data.

The particular path i am struggling with a a 
parent directory with the utf-8 name:
  "\343\201\246\343\201\231\343\201\250\343\203\225\343\202\251\343\203\253\343\202\277\343\202\231"


- Read Roberts




At 5:06 AM -0700 10/8/04, Tim Williams wrote:
>Read Roberts <rroberts at adobe.com> wrote in 
>message 
>news:<mailman.4553.1097213592.5135.python-list at python.org>...
>>  I have the current Windows binary install of Python 2.3.4 on my
>>  Windows XP system.
>>
>>  I am pained to discover that  tkFileDialog.askdirectory() returns  a
>>  mangled path when a directory is selected which has non-ascii Unicode
>>  path, as in Kanji characters, i.e. the usull "????" in place of the
>>  original UTF-8 code points.  .
>>
>>  After some time spent Google'ing. I don't find a discussion of this.
>>  Is there some option  or configuration change I can make to fix this?
>>  I can roll my own file-dialog , but I prefer to re-use code.
>
>I had a problem with using tkFileDialog.filename between Windows and
>Linux. The solution I got was to use unicode().
>
>>>>  In article <faf44c99.0402240955.4613fd6a at posting.google.com>,
>>>>   timothy.williams at nvl.army.mil (Tim Williams) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  >I'm using Python 2.3.2 and tkFileDialog in a program I have. I'm
>>>>  >trying to use this on Linux (RH 8.0) and Windows 2000. When I
>first
>>>>  >upgraded from v2.2 to v2.3. I noticed that
>>>>  >tkFileDialog.askopenfilename() returns a tuple on Cancel instead
>of
>>>>  >''. I found that the Windows version still returns a string ('').
>Now
>>>>  >I'm finding out that tkFileDialog.Directory().show() does this
>too. ...
>>>>  >How can I check tkFileDialog to do the "right" thing?  All I want
>is
>>>>  >the string that contains the path, but I want this to work on
>both
>>>>  >Linux and Windows.
>>>>
>>>>  Is this the sort of thing you want?
>>>>
>  >>> dirobj = tkFileDialog.askdirectory()
>>>>  if not dirobj:
>>>>    # user Cancelled; works whether the return is '' or ()
>>>>    return
>>>>
>>>>  # dirobj may be a string or a Tk_Obj
>>>>  dirname = unicode(dirobj)
>>>>??
>>>>  The same code should work for askopenfilename.
>
>HTH
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From nem at nowhere.invalid  Mon Oct  4 07:54:25 2004
From: nem at nowhere.invalid (Nemesis)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 11:54:25 GMT
Subject: problems with shelve
Message-ID: <cjrdlh$cjp$1@e3k.asi.ansaldo.it>

I used shelve to build a dictionary with 100 elements. I saved the file
(on Linux) and reaopened it on Windows, but I noticed a strange
behaviour. 
Let's call dic the shelve opened, the command "len(dic)" returned 89 but
"len(dic.keys())" "len(dic.values())" "len(dic.items())" returned 100.

I dumped the shelve on a real dictionary and then I dumped this
dictionary in to another shelve. len() on this new shelve returned 93.

Alex Martelli told me that probably I should open the file in binary
mode on Windows ... but I don't know how.

This is the syntax of shelve.open:

open( filename[,flag='c'[,protocol=None[,writeback=False[,binary=None]]]]) 

binary is deprecated, and however I tried it but nothing changed.
flag refers to the opening for reading/writing ...
protocol is the protocol used by cPickle

How can manage on different platforms the same shelve?

-- 
XPN :: http://xpn.altervista.org



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  1 02:08:55 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 02:08:55 -0400
Subject: Outputting to specific sound channels?
In-Reply-To: <WDY6d.2397168$6p.406211@news.easynews.com>
References: <WDY6d.2397168$6p.406211@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <Uz67d.2746$TY2.563@lakeread04>

Davin Boling wrote:

> I'm a rather new programmer - been messing around with Python for about 
> half a year or so. I play a few online games and run a Teamspeak server. 
> Recently I've found myself wanting to make a "sound board" program that 
> lets me play prerecorded sounds over the microphone channel. :D
> 
> What is the best way to go about doing this? I don't believe there's 
> anything in the standard library that handles this, so I'd *probably* 
> want to use SDL or something similar. Does anyone know of a solution 
> that not only allows you to play sounds from Python, but also output 
> those sounds to a channel other than Wave? (such as Microphone)
> 
> Thanks in advance, I'll toss any worthwhile creations that result from 
> the knowledge your way. ;D

It seems almost churlish to ask if you realise that a microphone is an 
input device.

I presume you want to mix inputs with Python and produce appropriate 
outputs? "snack" comes to mind, though I truly don't know enough to say 
whether it can do what you want.

regards
  Steve


From xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net  Wed Oct 27 04:50:17 2004
From: xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 08:50:17 GMT
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
References: <mailman.5537.1098844696.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns958F6E569BC42PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>

"Tony Meyer" <t-meyer at ihug.co.nz> said :

> [Fred Pacquier]
>> is the documented change on line 348 enough to run the 
>> script with a  current version of Spambayes ?
> 
> You just need to change the 'False' on 348 to '"dbm"'.  I've just
> checked this change in, so you can alternatively get the more recent
> copy from CVS when it updates.
 
Thanks for the tip, Tony. I'm glad to see my original question helped to 
get that particular ball rolling again... This group just lived up once 
again to its much-deserved reputation :)

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From nicogrubert at arcor.de  Mon Oct  4 03:21:49 2004
From: nicogrubert at arcor.de (Nico Grubert)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:21:49 +0200
Subject: Processing a MySQL Dump file with Python
Message-ID: <4160FA0D.1010109@arcor.de>

Hi there,

I need to parse a textfile (~400 MByte) which represents a complete 
MySQL dump (including table definitions and data records) .
How can I process a MySQL dump file with python? Is there any Python 
module that can parse MySQL dump files -- or
can I somehow call the MySQL interpreter in background to pass the dump 
file to it so the SQL Dump is imported in order
to write the tables and data into the MySQL database?

Thanks in advance,
Nico


From http  Sun Oct 10 03:12:23 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 00:12:23 -0700
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<du7fz4n6ozx.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <7xoejbt5bc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> writes:
> It's just that logical xor is an extremely rare beast. I would
> probably prefer to see the operation expanded to the more typical
> and-or-nots in real code.

I think != is appropriate in this situation.  
   if bool(x) != bool(y): ...


From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Thu Oct 21 01:57:25 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 05:57:25 GMT
Subject: Method Underscores?
Message-ID: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>

Is there a purpose for using trailing and leading double underscores for 
built-in method names? My impression was that underscores are supposed 
to imply some sort of pseudo-privatization, but would using 
myclass.len() instead of myclass.__len__() really cause Python 
considerable harm? As much as I adore Python, I have to admit, I find 
this to be one of the language's most "unPythonic" features and a key 
arguing point against Python. I've searched for a discussion on this 
topic in the groups archives, but found little. What are everyone's 
thoughts on this subject?


From francisl at aei.ca  Mon Oct 18 08:39:02 2004
From: francisl at aei.ca (Francis Lavoie)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:39:02 -0400
Subject: windows services
In-Reply-To: <ckrujd$90f$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
References: <mailman.5046.1097941098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckrujd$90f$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <4173B966.7070507@aei.ca>

vincent wehren wrote:

> Francis Lavoie wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to restart windows services? (remotely and locally)
>>
>> Because I have a little script that retreive the LastWaitTimeout key 
>> of the automatic update, delete that key if it out schedule for our 
>> production needs. But still the service need to be restarded if I 
>> want that key to be reset, when Win Update will resynchronize with 
>> the sus server for new update.
>>
>> Thankx
>>
> Mybe this helps:
>
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/59872
>
> -- 
> Vincent Wehren

Ok thank, that's working perfectly.
I also tried Michael Loritsch and Elbert Lev suggestion(win32service), 
but that failed for some module, telling 'The specified service does not 
exist as an installed service.'.
But win32serviceutil work perfectly. It is only undocument in the 
pywin32 documentation but I think I'll have to search on google for 
further information.

Thank you



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 03:39:29 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:39:29 +0200
Subject: subclassing builtin types
References: <mailman.4547.1097209393.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glbzip.x2no91qvregpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

BJ?rn Lindqvist <bjourne at gmail.com> wrote:

> A problem I have occured recently is that I want to subclass builtin
> types. Especially subclassing list is very troublesome to me. But I
> can't find the right syntax to use. Take for example this class which
> is supposed to be a representation of a genome:
> 
> class Genome(list):
>     def __init__(self):
>         list.__init__(self)
>         self = ["A", "G", "C", "G", "A"]
>         ....
> 
> etc, you get the point. The line self = ["A", "G", "C", "G", "A"] will
> not work like I have intended.

...and that's quite independent from the fact that you're subclassing
'list'.  Whatever you are or aren't subclassing, rebinding an argument
(including rebinding 'self', be that in an __init__ or any other method)
never has any observable effects outside that function/method.
Arguments are local names of a function; they start their life bound to
some values, but you can freely rebind them, and if you do that only
affects the current instance of the function itself, period.

You appear to want to _mutate_ the object to which name 'self' refers,
rather than _rebind_ the name itself. Therefore, do not assign to
barename 'self' -- that's just rebinding; use, implicitly or explicitly,
mutating methods on the object to which name 'self' refers.  
For example, you could assign to self[:]  (assignment to slice) or
equivalently (since self is still empty at that time) call self.extend.

> There are quite a few other problems I
> can't solve too, but getting the [] operator right seems almost
> impossible. Then I've asked around on IRC and the general consensus
> seem to be that subclassing buiiltin types is Not A Good Idea <TM>. 

I don't do IRC, and if it's true that doing IRC makes one believe that,
then I'd better keep not doing it.

> Why not? To me, it makes perfectly sense to subclass list when you
> want to make a class that IS a list with some extra stuff. And in
> other languages you do it all the time like Java's List and C++ STL's
> vector.  Why is it so much harder in Python?

If your grasp of Python is so tenuous that you believe that 'self = ...'
statement could work in any other way than it does, I guess any task
whatsoever could appear to be very hard.  Once you do begin to have a
modest grasp of Python, however, it's quite easy (neither Java nor C++,
btw, subclass their List and vector<> types from their builtin arrays:
*THAT* would be too hard for them...).

So what's this "almost impossibility" in implementing indexing?  Just
write method __getitem__ for reading from an index (or slice),
__setitem__ for writing.  C++ does not distinguish the two cases (it's
operator[] either way) and *that* does make things much harder if your
C++ array-like class needs to do something clever, but that's another
issue, and not one which Python suffers from.


Alex


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 05:50:26 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 02:50:26 -0700
Subject: ANN: curses-extra 0.2
References: <pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050@cut.me.sideralis.net>
	<4edc17eb.0410141118.6d3ac74d@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.10.14.21.52.29.434183@cut.me.sideralis.net>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410150150.fb6ee71@posting.google.com>

Riccardo Galli <riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.14.21.52.29.434183 at cut.me.sideralis.net>...
> Do you (or others) know what is the best module available for console
> graphic in DOS ?

No, however in a another thread Erik Max Francis pointed out the existence
of curses for Windows: http://flangy.com/dev/python/curses/

I have a linux question anyway: what's the terminal where you tested 
curses_extra.py? It looks very different in xterm and Konsole (in the
version of Konsole I have on Mandrake 10.0 it does not look even right).
I did not expect such big differences; on xterm I do not see the underlined
chars in the menus, for instance.

      Michele


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 13 16:26:23 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:26:23 +0200
Subject: String manipulation advice needed.
References: <CE90A4CF2E5E9C4890AE5D9D8A5EFAE3032CCC22@CINMLVEM10.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <ckk2td$51l$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Raaijmakers, Vincent (GE Infrastructure)" wrote:

> What is the easiest way of getting this information out of a string:

making some reasonable assumptions, and generalising to any number
of information instances:

> foo = "My number 70 is what I want to parse"  => 70

print re.findall("\d+", foo)

> foo = "My info {info} between the curly brackets is what I want to parse" => {info}

print re.findall("{[^}]+}", foo)

> foo = "My  info between [hello world] is what I want to parse" => [hello world]

print re.findall("\[[^]]+\]", foo)

or, as a one-size-fits-all pattern:

print re.findall("\d+|{[^}]+}|\[[^]]+\]", foo)

</F> 





From johng2001 at rediffmail.com  Mon Oct 11 22:12:53 2004
From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 19:12:53 -0700
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
Message-ID: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>

Is there an equivalent of COM on Linux that I can get through Python.
My need is to have some sort of language independent component
framework. I can think of CORBA but I have to have a server running. I
prefer not to. I just need Python components for local consumption in
other languages. I remember Gnome libs having some thing like this.
Any thoughts?


From gempeia at teleline.es  Wed Oct 13 05:11:40 2004
From: gempeia at teleline.es (gempeia at teleline.es)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:11:40 +0200
Subject: MDaemon Warning - virus found: Message could not be delivered
Message-ID: <20041013091343.A74FB1E4002@bag.python.org>


******************************* WARNING ******************************
Este mensaje ha sido analizado por MDaemon AntiVirus y ha encontrado 
un fichero anexo(s) infectado(s).  Por favor revise el reporte de abajo.

Attachment                    Virus name               Action taken
----------------------------------------------------------------------
text.pif                      I-Worm.Mydoom.m          Removed


**********************************************************************


The original message was received at Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:11:40 +0200
from teleline.es [182.177.41.106]

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<python-list at python.org>

----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to python.org.:
>>> DATA
<<< 400-aturner; %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output
<<< 400


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct  2 22:45:52 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 22:45:52 -0400
Subject: python vs c#
In-Reply-To: <0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <415F67E0.8040200@holdenweb.com>

Tim Roberts wrote:

> Sam Holden <sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
> 
>>Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This particular pickle is a disagreement of number: since there is only 
>>>one village, the correct slogan should be "... is missing its idiot". If 
>>>you thought it was "... it's idiot" then take two demerits and refrain 
>>>from posting on c.l.py for 48 hours.
>>
>>Their isn't necessarily plural so that isn't a problem. Since arguing
>>grammar isn't something I can do successfully, I'll instead resort
>>to an appeal to authority and say that one of the authors of 
>>"The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language" agrees with me:
> 
> 
> 
> Two points.  First, that web page just QUOTES from "The Cambridge Grammar
> of the English Language."  The page itself is just a blog, and everyone
> knows that "if you see it on a blog, it must be true."  ;/
> 
> Second, "their" is allowed as a singular pronoun only in those cases where
> a gender-specific pronoun is called for, but the gender is unclear or would
> be sexist.  Instead of "Everyone brought his Python manual," we are now
> allowed to say "Everyone brought their Python manual."
> 
> However, in the example that started this, "village" has no gender.  Thus,
> I don't see that "their" is an acceptable alternative to "its" in this
> case.
> 
> I love this kind of debate.  I wish it didn't irritate people so much...

Well, as far as I can see (since you've admitted you're in this for 
fun), I agree that the stated use of "their" you mention was primarily 
for reasons of political correctness, to avoid arguments about whether 
"his or her" or "her or his" should be used.

Of course Aahz would doubtless be able to quote the specific genitive 
form of "zhie", a word I have never been able to like, invented for much 
the same reason (and I've probably got the word wrong, since I'm 
definitely not a regular user).

I must admit I didn't find the Cambridge quote at all convincing. And I 
don't mind irritating people ... now there's a nice ambiguity for you!

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct  4 18:00:27 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:00:27 -0400
Subject: ActivePython/IIS Request Concurrency
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4271.1096920887.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F28@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.4271.1096920887.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ptCdnRAHrP1mWvzcRVn-rA@powergate.ca>

Erik Rose wrote:
> Interestingly, that page espouses ActivePython, which I'm beginning to 
> suspect is nothing more than a thin candy coating around pywin32. Do you 
> know whether this is so?

No exactly, but practically speaking it may be so, for you.  It's
merely an alternative *packaging* of Python, which includes among
other things the pywin32 package.  The regular distribution does
not include it and users must download it separately and install
it themselves (which takes all of a couple of minutes, tops).

So, not a wrapper/coating, but just a package that includes it.

-Peter


From hostmaster at iis.com  Sat Oct  9 08:03:04 2004
From: hostmaster at iis.com (hostmaster at iis.com)
Date: 9 Oct 2004 05:03:04 -0700
Subject: Antigen found VIRUS= W32/Netsky-P (Sophos,CA(InoculateIT)) worm
Message-ID: <PHX-MAILAVUE9chbN2t00001d29@phx-mailgw.iisweb.com>

Antigen for SMTP Gateways found software.zip->document.txt                                                                   .exe infected with VIRUS= W32/Netsky-P (Sophos,CA(InoculateIT)) worm.
The message is currently Purged.  The message, "Hi", was
sent from python-list at python.org and was discovered in SMTP Messages\Inbound And Outbound
located at IIS/PHX-MAILAV.




From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Oct  3 17:36:20 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 14:36:20 -0700
Subject: limitations of current logging package
References: <2e37dc1.0409230442.7e74543d@posting.google.com>
	<4edc17eb.0409232031.66ad3d4e@posting.google.com>
	<2e37dc1.0409260220.6ad5cb6c@posting.google.com>
	<JqSdnXgsbLTkosXcRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<2e37dc1.0410020754.739f8744@posting.google.com>
	<cjmsug$m3o$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk> <2s8im5F1icf99U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410031336.2fa892ad@posting.google.com>

> Excellent documentation, but it DWOMM (doesn't work on my machine(s)). 
> Python 2.3.3 on Debian (Linux kernel 2.4.26) and Cygwin (Win2kPro) both 
> claim that "basicConfig() takes no arguments (4 given)".
> 
> Has the API changed since the docs at that link?

The link points to "in-development" documentation, which is consistent
with Python in CVS. The basicConfig() API was changed to add the
optional keyword arguments documented in the link - the 2.4 release of
Python will have this API, which is backwards-compatible. If you want
to use it now, try downloading the logging package from CVS.

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct 29 10:47:40 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 14:47:40 GMT
Subject: Real-time graphs
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
	<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4182580c$0$78438$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-29, MJR <pynode at centrum.cz> wrote:

> Need to display data read from telemetry systme. Data might change in
> order of 1000/s. Not every sample will be displayed, but still need
> something close to 100sps

If you want to do 100 frames per second, you're going to have
to use gaming/animation techniques: Xv extensions,
double-buffering of frames, etc.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  HUGH BEAUMONT died
                                  at               in 1982!!
                               visi.com            


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 29 15:10:13 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:10:13 -0700
Subject: [wxPython] How to rebuild a page containing controls because
	some of them have to be deleted?
In-Reply-To: <clu3bj$sv5$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <clu3bj$sv5$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <1099077014.7272.34.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 20:51 +0200, F. GEIGER wrote:
> I often use Notebook to structure my GUIs. Sometimes I have to provide a
> Settings page. Doing changes in this page influences other pages in such a
> way, that some controls have to change add or remove children or even have
> to be removed from the page at all.
> 
> Yet I could not come up with a solid pattern how to do this. I tried to call
> DestroyChildren(), delete all ref's to them, and to set the page's sizer to
> None. This doesn't work very well. When I rebuild the page, at least the
> arrangement of the controls is not the same as before, which makes me think,
> that other things will go wrong in the long run too.

I use this technique with little issue (although I haven't tried it with
a wx.Notebook).  One thing you might try is to use an extra wx.Panel as
a container for the entire page.  So each page then would end up with a
single panel for the page, and each panel further containing *another*
single panel which contains your actual controls.  This way you can
simply destroy the second panel and recreate it and the layout is simple
enough that you shouldn't run into problems with sizers getting
confused.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Fri Oct 15 04:57:20 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:57:20 +0800
Subject: How to python raw socket ????
Message-ID: <cko3dl$91d$1@netnews.hinet.net>

have any relate module ??
or write example ??

  .>_<.

Please help me 




From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Oct 23 20:05:39 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 17:05:39 -0700
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <mailman.5356.1098540736.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410231605.3ede1230@posting.google.com>

I think we need to separate two concerns: a parser for the Microsoft
.ini file syntax (which David Wilson is arguing for, AFAICT) and the
need for a more powerful configuration file format and API which
supports more flexible configuration than .ini files can provide
(which I would argue for).

Since applications (and subsystems - e.g. logging) are often
constructed as hierarchies of components (often quite deep
hierarchies), it seems logical that application configuration should
support reasonably deep hierarchies, too. The .ini file format does
this, but it's very very basic, really only a two-level hierarchy
(unless jumping through hoops is desired) - that's why Windows uses a
registry. I have to say that my experience with ConfigParser and
logging configuration has made me want to find something better.

XML is a widely used substrate for defining unrestricted hierarchies,
but it suffers from excessive verbosity for some applications. I think
something more Pythonic would be better: since containers are
typically either dicts or sequences, a configuration would ideally
consist of a container hierarchy denoted by Python's literals syntax
for dicts and lists.

I would like to present for consideration an alternative hierarchical
file format, which is in the early stages of design (configuration
files can be read and written but the API for access is still
undecided). This format is not particularly original or innovative,
but it is certainly simple and to my eyes seems reasonably Pythonic in
style. There are more details on the Python Wiki: see

http://www.python.org/moin/HierConfig

Please feel free to post comments on the Wiki, which shows example
configuration files. I'd like to see if people think the approach has
sufficient merit to warrant even thinking about putting a PEP
together. The present design is, as I said earlier, in a preliminary
stage: so please be gentle.

Many thanks,


Vinay Sajip


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Oct 19 22:04:31 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:04:31 +1300
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <1glwdd4.s05uuadrav97N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5152.1098149022.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glwdd4.s05uuadrav97N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2tlvdiF20ldc8U1@uni-berlin.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Dima Dorfman <d+pylist at nospamplease.trit.org> wrote:
> 
>>  yield *other
>>
>>to mean:
>>
>>  for x in other:
>>    yield x
> 
> Looks to me roughly equivalent to such proposals as 'yield from other';
> not totally out of whack but IMHO not warranted.

If it's a matter of whether a special syntax for this
is justified, it might open the way for some kind of
optimisation to bypass the overhead of the extra
for-loop.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct 30 11:14:24 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:14:24 +0200
Subject: Regex speed
In-Reply-To: <c4udnf9tNaRXMx7cRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<DiEgd.6304$kM.2345@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<2uh4g5F29ntaoU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<w4mdnc7RG8C9Dx7cRVn-gA@powergate.ca>
	<2uhjgnF29251cU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<c4udnf9tNaRXMx7cRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <2uhpegF2bg2kdU2@uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
>> Well, commenting out the regex substitutions in both versions leads to
>> equal execution times, as I mentioned earlier, so it has to be my regexes.
> 
> I'm sorry, I managed to miss the significance of that
> statement in your original post.

;)

> I wonder what the impact is of the fact that the re.sub
> operations are function calls in Python.  The overhead
> of function calls is relatively high in Python, so
> perhaps an experiment would be revealing.  Can you try
> with a dummy re.sub() call (create a dummy "re" object
> that is global to your module, with a dummy .sub()
> method that just does "return") and compare the
> speed of that with the version without the re.sub
> calls at all?  Probably a waste of time, but perhaps
> the actual re operations are not so slow after all,
> but the calls themselves are.
> 
> If that's true, you would at least get a tiny improvement
> by alias re.sub to a local name before the loop, to
> avoid the global lookup for "re" and then the attribute
> lookup for "sub" on each of the three calls, each time
> through the loop.
> 
> If you can show the format of the input data, I would
> be happy to try a little profiling, if you haven't already
> done that to prove that the bulk of the time is actually
> in the re.sub operation itself.

Well, I did alias the sub methods in that way:

re1sub = re.compile("whatever").sub

There was a performance gain, but it was about 1/100th of the speed
difference.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 20 18:17:56 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:17:56 +0200
Subject: Parsing info into a 2d list
References: <58fb5b0e.0410201227.6fa6fc88@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1glzcj5.1138f95enobyN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Matthew Walsh <matt.walsh at gmail.com> wrote:

> Whats wrong with the following code?
> using pythonWin I get the following error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
> line 310, in RunScript
>     exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
>   File "C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My
> Documents\file_parser.py", line 16, in ?
>     rownum = range(eval(nrows))
> TypeError: object doesn't support item assignment
> 
> >>CODE
> f = open('f:\input.dat')
> feed= f.read()
> lines = feed.split('\n')
> ncols = lines[0].split()[1]
> nrows = lines[1].split()[1]
> xllcorner = lines[2].split()[1]
> yllcorner = lines[3].split()[1]
> cellsize = lines[4].split()[1]
> NoData = lines[5].split()[1]
> 
> colnum = range(eval(ncols))
> rownum = range(eval(nrows))
> 
> for r in rownum:
>     for c in colnum:
>         slope[r][c]= eval(lines[6+r].split()[c])
>         
> f.close()
> >>END OF CODE

Looks like the message is off by a few lines.  The item assignment
you're trying to do is in the body of the nested for, and since 'slope'
isn't ever assigned anything anywhere it's hard to guess what it is, but
apparently its items don't support item assignment.


Alex


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Oct  5 17:38:58 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:38:58 -0700
Subject: Cross-tabulation module in Python
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F2F@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Ajith Prasad wrote:
> Anyone knows of a reference to a statistical cross-tabulation module
> in Python? Thanks in advance.

If I understand you correctly, that shouldn't be hard to write yourself.
You can see an example of mine at
svn://casadeamor.com/dejavu/trunk/analysis.py


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From joewong at mango.cc  Thu Oct  7 04:38:46 2004
From: joewong at mango.cc (Joe Wong)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:38:46 +0800
Subject: strange output from GC
Message-ID: <001e01c4ac49$1035ae00$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>

Hi, I am running some test script with garbage collector. Here is my test script:

import gc
gc.set_debug(gc.DEBUG_LEAK)

class bb:
    def __init__(self):
        self.i = 1123
        self.functable = [{123:self.printit}]

    def printit(self):
        print self.i

try:
    b = bb()
except:
    pass

b=bb()    # comment this out in 2nd test

print gc.collect()
print gc.garbage

It prints the following:

gc: collectable <dict 0083A540>
gc: collectable <bb instance at 0083B2D8>
gc: collectable <dict 0083A150>
gc: collectable <instancemethod 007E6EE0>
gc: collectable <list 00833810>
5
[{'i': 1123, 'functable': [{123: <bound method bb.printit of <__main__.bb instan
ce at 0x0083B2D8>>}]}, <__main__.bb instance at 0x0083B2D8>, {123: <bound method
 bb.printit of <__main__.bb instance at 0x0083B2D8>>}, <bound method bb.printit
of <__main__.bb instance at 0x0083B2D8>>, [{123: <bound method bb.printit of <__
main__.bb instance at 0x0083B2D8>>}]]

Then, I comment out the line as stated in the script, I get:

0
[]

this time.

I done another test with the modified script:

import gc
gc.set_debug(gc.DEBUG_LEAK)

class bb:
    def __init__(self):
        self.i = 1123
        self.functable = [{123:self.printit}]

    def printit(self):
        print self.i


b=bb()
del b

print gc.collect()
print gc.garbage

When I run, I got:

gc: collectable <dict 0083A540>
gc: collectable <bb instance at 0083B300>
gc: collectable <dict 0083A150>
gc: collectable <instancemethod 007E6EE0>
gc: collectable <list 00833810>
5
[{'i': 1123, 'functable': [{123: <bound method bb.printit of <__main__.bb instan
ce at 0x0083B300>>}]}, <__main__.bb instance at 0x0083B300>, {123: <bound method
 bb.printit of <__main__.bb instance at 0x0083B300>>}, <bound method bb.printit
of <__main__.bb instance at 0x0083B300>>, [{123: <bound method bb.printit of <__
main__.bb instance at 0x0083B300>>}]]

If I remove the "del b" line from script, it outputs

0
[]

I don't know what is the problem with my script here. Are these the expected result from the garbage collector?


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.773 / Virus Database: 520 - Release Date: 2004/10/5
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From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  5 01:08:55 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 05:08:55 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4293.1096947506.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<KUo8d.3033$UP1.1475@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4303.1096948810.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162200b$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4310.1096950256.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41622c67$0$59863$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>>On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>>When I said "harsh", I meant being accused of trolling,
>>>attempting to annoy, stir trouble, etc.  None which was my
>>>intent nor did I think that my post would be interpreted as
>>>such (otherwise I wouldn't have posted it).
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>If you honestly didn't think you were being rude and weren't
>>going to annoy anybody, you really, really do need to read how
>>to ask questions the smart way.  c.l.p is a very kind place,
>>but should somebody as naive as you wander into the rest of
>>Usenet... well, I just don't like to think of what might
>>happen.
>
> Apparently it is not a matter of "smartly" but don't ask at all.

You are expected to spend at least a few minutes of reading on
your own before requesting that thousands of other people
answer dozens of questions for you.

> I get the point, grief.

No, I don't think you do.  You really ought to read the "smart
questions" link I provided if you want to understand how the
world works.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  PARDON me, am I
                                  at               speaking ENGLISH?
                               visi.com            


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 05:29:25 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:29:25 +0200
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
References: <20041021081356.GA12496@mylene.ghaering.de>
	<mailman.5255.1098349524.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm17rf.1n3hurm1vtl1cbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5306.1098435535.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm22d2.1k1we4xuddf3xN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Simon Brunning <simon.brunning at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:33:34 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Young and idealistic, I assume.  Care to name two more SQL engines
> > accepting exactly the same dialect as sqlite...?-)
> 
> Err, well, idealistic, perhaps. ;-)
> 
> In practice, as you say, you often have to tweak your SQL for
> different engines. But you really can minimise this by sticking to the
> basics. Joe Celko's "I Will Never Have To Port This Code: Debunking
> shortcuts and SQL myths"[1] is worth a look, but I can speak from

Tx, I love Celko's writing (and speaking) and I'll be sure to read it.

> experience here. I'm working on a system where we mirror parts of an
> iSeries DB2 database down to SQL Server. I can and do write even
> fairly complex queries that work on both.
> 
> Eventually.

My hat's off to you.  In my experience the only decent solution is
always, in the end, to write a "RDBMS engine portability layer" with
"higher level" operations mapping down to subtly different (or sometimes
not so subtly) SQL code.  But maybe this just means I'm not as good as I
thought at writing good, portable, efficient SQL...


Alex


From marcus at deepfort.com  Wed Oct 27 13:16:52 2004
From: marcus at deepfort.com (marcus at deepfort.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:16:52 +0100
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <417FD804.9090509@deepfort.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

>Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
>in site-packages) in an application.
>
>Let's also say I use py2exe to package and distribute said
>application.
>
>Is what I'm distributing a "derived work" of the GPL'd python?
>Or is py2exe's packaging of the module's .pyc file and my
>application code's .pyc files a "mere aggregation" so that I
>only have to provide source code for the GPL'ed module and not
>for my application code?
>
>IOW, do I have to GPL my application code and distribute source
>code for it?
>  
>

Here's my personal spin on it - I think that if your distributed binary 
will contain GPL'ed code, that simplifies it - it makes your distributed 
binary subject to the terms of the GPL.

Yet again, personal interpretation abounds, but in the spirit of the 
GPL, if *what you actually distribute* for people to run *contains* the 
GPL'ed stuff and uses it, then it's surely a derivative work, is it not?

If you wanted to avoid the issue with the library, it'd be worth 
reimplementing it or offering it separately.

Overall, if you're going to release modules and insist GPLness, they 
should really be released under the LGPL by convention shouldn't they?

Maybe you should contact the developer about that.

I really wish people would consider the LGPL when they're releasing 
libraries etc. - OSS developers need to realise that it's encumbent on 
them not to erode or threaten the legal status of the GPL, and that 
releasing software under the GPL in this manner not only throws things 
into uncertainty, but could (and IANAL so feel free to enlighten me 
here) ultimately end up with the GPL being compromised in court in 
future IP disputes, couldn't it?

I'd almost prefer to boycott software that uses the GPL frivolously or 
inappropriately, because I fear it could threaten the GPL's existence 
ultimately.

</high horse>

Anyway, have you come to a conclusion on this one? (or have I missed a post)




From cce at clarkevans.com  Tue Oct 12 12:23:02 2004
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:23:02 -0400
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <10mmh9i511urd2c@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.4728.1097533233.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mmh9i511urd2c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041012162302.GA3907@prometheusresearch.com>

On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 07:47:43PM -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
| Robert Brewer wrote:
| >xforms = {dejavu.icontains:
| >           lambda x, y: x + " Like '%" + y[1:-1] +"%'",

Robert had 3 examples of a particular lambda, in this case, I'd
consider making a separate function, 'unquote' which seems to 
be what he's doing.  However, the idea of a lookup table having
a great many varieties of thingies is not uncommon; and lambda
is very useful in this case.

| >Conciseness is a continuum. I understand (and agree with) your
| >contention that many lambdas wouldn't suffer from a full function
| >definition. Writing the above with full functions, however, would take
| >us to the other extreme end of the continuum, which is boilerplate for
| >boilerplate's sake.

  Hear Hear!

| Well, all I can say is that I had to sit down and work through some 
| examples to figure out what each of those lambdas would do.

Your problem seems to be with using string concatination (a very 
straight-forward and common method of building strings, I might add)
rather than with lambda, 

 xforms = {  
         dejavu.icontains: 
              lambda x,y: "%s Like '%%%s%%' % (x,y[1:-1]),
         dejavu.ieq: 
              lambda x,y: "%s = %s" % (x,y),
         dejavu.now: lambda: "Now()",
         dejavu.today: lambda: "DateValue(Now())",
         dejavu.year: 
              lambda x: "Year(%s)" % x
         }

| I'm also not sure what the point is of defining a callable that returns 
| a literal string, but I suppose you're just following a protocol 
| established elsewhere.

This is called lazy evaulation, the caller doesn't _know_ that it is
just a string till it evaluates the code block.  It could, just as easily
be, for example, a computation that creates a string.

            lambda: "current time is %s" % time.ctime()

This expression varies depending on when you ask for its value.

| Personally, I'd be likely to solve this particular issue by defining a 
| make_formatter() function:
| 
| def make_formatter(format):
|    def formatter(*args):
|        return format % tuple(args)
|    return formatter
| 
| xforms = {dejavu.icontains: make_formatter("%s Like '%%%s%%'"),
...
|          }
| 
| # [...]
| xforms[dejavu.icontains](x, y[1:-1])

What you've done:
  - completely changed the semantics of his example
  - made the logic not quite so easily understandable; I have to
    now "look" for the definition of make_formatter
  - created a rather 'useless' function and clouded my head 
    with a name for it
  - used alot more vertical space in my code that amounts
    to a few (unnecessary) extra pages to deal with.

Also, your make_formatter is a very simple lambda:

  xforms = { dejavu.icontains: 
                lambda *args: "%s Like '%%%s%%'" % args,

That ain't so hard is it?

| I suppose that the fact that all of these methods just happen to be 
| building strings may be an artifact of the specific example, rather than 
| a general case.  I haven't really needed to use adapters, so I can't 
| really say how often a general transformation along these lines might be 
| applicable...

This string building is quite common in the style of programming
I use as well.  It is a general case for me, and lambda makes my
life much nicer.

On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 01:51:00PM -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
| But because of Python's line- and indentation-based syntax, doing all of 
| that on a single line is... um... awkward at best, to put it mildly.  

There are lots of things in python that can be single-line, including
at this point the ability to declare and invoke a function.  For
example, I can declare a mapping or sequence using a single-line
format, ["such", "as", "this", "list"] or { "like": "this dict" }.

I like the ability to use my entire 80 column screen for code, when
appropriate.  While the indentation helps readability, it should not
be forced when it is not necessary.   How ugly would python be if it
forced lists to be declared one-line-per-list-item?

| And once you make a lambda multiline, then you lose most of the point of 
| it -- at least, as far as I understand what the point is (having an 
| in-line, anonymous callable).  Once you allow statements and multiple 
| expressions, all you're gaining is anonymity, which seems like a pretty 
| paltry benefit to me.

The primary advantage of lambda is that it defines a function where
you need it, not before.  The ability to use screen realestate better
is a nice advantage, as is not having to 'mint' a name for temporary use.

Instead of arguing against lambda, which is already in the core language
and used by many people, perhaps you could suggest a syntax improvement
that would make lambda more understandable?  Your're advocating taking
away a very nice tool without proposing a resonable replacement.

Best,

Clark

-- 
Clark C. Evans                      Prometheus Research, LLC.
                                    http://www.prometheusresearch.com/
    o                               office: +1.203.777.2550 
  ~/ ,                              mobile: +1.203.444.0557 
 //
((   Prometheus Research: Transforming Data Into Knowledge
 \\  ,
   \/    - Research Exchange Database
   /\    - Survey & Assessment Technologies
   ` \   - Software Tools for Researchers
    ~ *


From export at hope.cz  Sat Oct 23 05:26:23 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 02:26:23 -0700
Subject: How to start a new thread ?
References: <81a41dd.0410202302.2e1d7e71@posting.google.com>
	<81a41dd.0410220024.1e595233@posting.google.com>
	<RB3ed.1721$Hf.1410@news.get2net.dk>
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410230126.6e406889@posting.google.com>

J?rgen Cederberg <jorgencederberg at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<RB3ed.1721$Hf.1410 at news.get2net.dk>...
> Lad wrote:
> > export at hope.cz (Lad) wrote in message news:<81a41dd.0410202302.2e1d7e71 at posting.google.com>...
> > 
> >>From running script I would like to start a new script in a new
> >>window.How can I do that from Python?
> >>Thanks for help
> >>LAD
> > 
> > 
> > Nobody knows???
> > Lad
> 
> It is very unclear what you want to do? If you are on a Windows PC you could do this:
> 
c
> Regards
> Jorgen

Dear Jorgen,
Thank you for the idea but it does not work without problems.
Your solution with os.system like 
os.system('start Script1.py')
os.system('start Script2.py')

works( without problems) if I start the main script from console.
Os.system opens a new console window and starts a child script in each
console window.
But
if I start the main script from a browser, and that is what I want,
like http://myserver/cgi-bin/ParentScript.py
the ParentScript.py does not open a new WEB BROWSER window but starts
a new CONSOLE window.
But I would like to open  each child script in a WEB BROWSER window
not in console window. How can I do that?
Thanks for help
Lad


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct  9 23:12:07 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 03:12:07 GMT
Subject: help me
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4646.1097373842.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>	<3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>
	<mailman.4646.1097373842.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bM1ad.8006$UP1.5707@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

dataangel:
> Why don't you want to use exec? Just curious. That's the normal way to 
> get a string to python code as far as I know.

That's not the normal way.  Where did you get that idea?

 >>> exec raw_input("enter name: ")+' = 34'
enter name: import os; os.system("pwd && echo rm -rf /delete/any/file"); c
/Users/dalke/src
rm -rf /delete/any/file
 >>>

In other words, without full vetting of the input it's
a hugh security hole.

If you want to set a global variable (why??) then use
the globals() dictionary.

 >>> spam
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'spam' is not defined
 >>> globals()[raw_input("enter name: ")] = 34
enter name: spam
 >>> spam
34
 >>>

More than likely you should put the data into a
dictionary of its own.  Otherwise, what happens
if someone assigns to the variable 'raw_input'?

 >>> globals()[raw_input("enter name: ")] = 34
enter name: raw_input
 >>> globals()[raw_input("enter name: ")] = 34
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: 'int' object is not callable
 >>>

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Mon Oct 25 04:50:15 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:50:15 +0100
Subject: how do i change from string to list
In-Reply-To: <clic69$9lg$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>	<417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>	<417c1cda$0$152$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>	<c76ff6fc.0410241958.7222d1f0@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5408.1098688267.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clib6b$9ur$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<clic69$9lg$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <clieoc$hlq$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Peter Otten wrote:
> We have different notions of obviousness, obviously:
> 
>>>>str(['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o'])
> 
> "['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o']"
> 
> :-)

That's a joke, right? :-)
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From srinathava_news at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 00:55:31 2004
From: srinathava_news at yahoo.com (Srinath Avadhanula)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 21:55:31 -0700
Subject: Connecting to an existing MATLAB COM server from python
Message-ID: <fa725d8a.0410182055.4abe6e0a@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I wanted to connect to an already existing MATLAB application from
python.

>From the MATHWORKS documentation at:

http://www.mathworks.com/access/helpdesk/help/techdoc/matlab_external/ch07cl24.html

I see that to connect to an already existing MATLAB application, I
have to do the equivalent of the following Visual Basic code:

h = GetObject(, "matlab.application")

      Note    It is important to use the syntax shown above to connect
with an existing MATLAB automation server. Omit the first argument,
and make sure that the second argument reads exactly as shown.

My question is, how do I replicate this from python? I tried the
following:

>>> import win32com.client
>>> o = win32com.client.GetObject(Class='matlab.application')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Program_Files\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py",
line 71, in GetObject
    return GetActiveObject(Class, clsctx)
  File "C:\Program_Files\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py",
line 80, in GetActiveObject
    dispatch = pythoncom.GetActiveObject(resultCLSID)
com_error: (-2147221021, 'Operation unavailable', None, None)

I tried searching for relevant things in Google, but couldn't find
anything close to this. I also read the docstring of
win32com.client.GetObject, but couldn't figure out the equivalent.

I already know how to start a new MATLAB COM Server. Something like

>>> o = win32com.client.Dispatch('matlab.application')

works fine. But I specifically want to connect to an existing server.

Srinath


From brian at sweetapp.com  Fri Oct 29 08:15:15 2004
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:15:15 +0200
Subject: CGI documentation generation
Message-ID: <41823453.80402@sweetapp.com>

I was wondering if there is a system available that serves Python 
documentation from a CGI script.

I want to use such a system internally at my company so we can browse 
documentation for our internal modules.

I can see that pydoc does a lot of what I want but implements a 
standalone server, which isn't ideal. Any suggestions?

Cheers,
Brian


From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Fri Oct  1 14:46:51 2004
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 11:46:51 -0700
Subject: Social Analysis and Modeling for Python
References: <415AD6A4.7000400@cloudthunder.com>	<1096493975.1238.45.camel@emilio>
	<mailman.4108.1096499054.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0410011046.5c2638cd@posting.google.com>

Actually, back in school, I worked for a sociology professor doing a
human population simulator, where we had all these people objects and
a set of functions that updated their attributes as time went on, but
we were forced to do it in C to have in run on the campus
supercomputer, so it wasn't what you'd call object oriented.  I can
see how using Python would make the modeling aspects a lot simpler. 
So, to sum, sounds cool, hope you have a lot of sucess with it.



Bishara Gabriel <bgabriel at cloudthunder.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4108.1096499054.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> I would be most willing to work with you in insuring that the specifics 
> of public health are accounted for and one is then able to witness and 
> experiment with the varying outcomes of various health promotion 
> campaigns and interventions. 
> 
> Cameron was indeed correct to point out pre-existing efforts in this 
> area, and I immediately corrected the wording so as we no long assert 
> that we will be "introducing" OOP to the social sciences.  Cameron 
> verified that I had corrected the issue appropriately.  Pre-existing 
> efforts will be acknowledged on our website pending its launch.  The PSF 
> has made clear that they favor concise proposals, and such references 
> within the proposal would extend beyond the scope of the call. 
> 
> By "other" GPL, I assume you mean LGPL?  We most likely will use the GPL 
> but this may be discussed further.  It has not been etched in stone as yet.
> 
> Thank you for your encouragements and enthusiastic commentary.  We very 
> much value feedback.
> 
> Let me know if you would like to participate in the project.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Bishara Gabriel


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Oct 25 07:25:26 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:25:26 +0200
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-function
	o verloading.
References: <mailman.5414.1098701076.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clinr7$tnm$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> Am I correct in stating that Python does not support function overloading?
> Have I been hiding under a rock and not noticed the thousands of examples
> that illustrate this approach?

No, you are basically right - there is no implicit type-based dispatch in
python. There are some recipes for  that, but basically they do the same
you to - check for arguments types, and dispatch accordingly

> Any comments are welcome!

Why don't you use properties? That even spares you the () for accessing
variables, and allows direct left-hand-side assignment:

class Foo(object):
    def __init__(self):
        self._bar = "bar"

    def _g_bar(self):
        return self._bar

    def _s_bar(self, value):
        self._bar = value

    bar = property(_g_bar, _s_bar)

f = Foo()

print f.bar
f.bar = "baz"

print f.bar


I really prefer that over all other mechanisms, and it allows for bar not
beeing simply stored in the object itself, but instead e.g. fetched lazily
from a database or received/transmitted over a network.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct  7 05:50:22 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:50:22 +0200
Subject: correct way to detect container type
References: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ck33gj$3ah$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Robin Becker wrote:

> I seem often to allow list/tuple arguments to be a singleton. This leads
> to code of the form
> 
> if type(arg) not in (type(()),type([])): arg = [arg]
> 
> 
> or alternatively
> 
> from type import ListType, TupleType
> _seqTypes = ListType, TupleType
> ......
> if type(arg) not in _seqTypes: ....
> 
> is there a 'best' way to do this?

I prefer 

isinstance(var, (list, tuple))

to the above, but I don't think there is one correct way. Often you don't
want a full-blown container, just an iterable. Then

try:
    it = iter(var)
except TypeError:
    it = iter([var])

may be more appropriate. However, you will end up iterating over the
characters if var is a string, which often has to be guarded against with
an additional isinstance(basestring) test

try:
    iter(var)
except TypeError:
    var = [var]
else:
    if isinstance(var, basestring): var = [var]

Peter



From nobody at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 26 19:31:00 2004
From: nobody at hotmail.com (Maboroshi)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:31:00 -0700
Subject: Python Sockets Question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5523.1098821472.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <10nt00un4qj6q4d@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.5523.1098821472.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10ntnlblsp7el84@corp.supernews.com>

Hey thanks man Ya I was using TCP at first, to be honest this project 
has changed so many times I will have to look further into those modules

Cheers

Andrew


Josiah Carlson wrote:
>>Hi I am building a simple chat program but I am running into problems 
>>interacting with more than one client I can send a message to a server 
>>and it can recieve it no problem but how do I get more than one client 
>>to see the messages as well so clients can talk to eachother basically 
>>how do I get the server to send the messages back so all the clients can 
>>see it
> 
> 
> Don't use UDP, use TCP.  TCP connections are persistant, so you can send
> information to all of your clients as necessary.
> 
> This will change your application, as it requires you to both read and
> write from sockets.  Check out the asyncore module, or perhaps even
> asynchat (which is 95% of a chat server already).
> 
>  - Josiah
> 


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 23:43:33 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:43:33 -0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <bVFdd.14488$sO5.10769@fe1.texas.rr.com>
References: <20041018104036.0A2B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<2EE12B0A-212F-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com>
	<20041018120633.0A3D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5133.1098129122.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<bVFdd.14488$sO5.10769@fe1.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041020204346a433f6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 03:19:35 GMT, Paul McGuire
<ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> wrote:
> (BTW, my vote is -10 for any config file format that requires definition of
> classes, functions, or other language constructs more complex than
> assignment or arithmetic/string expressions.  Config files should be simple
> text files for easy reading and editing.)

There is a reason why _some_ definition is useful, whatever mechanism
is used to build it. It allows to provide default values, type
information, and also to map internal names to the names used in the
external config file representation. If I understood your idea
correctly, it allows one to read the config data, and parse it
properly; but it has no way to know if a given key received a value of
the correct type, or what to do if a given key was not provided in the
config file. Another issue (as mentioned previously in this thread) is
that sometimes it is desirable to have keys that can't be mapped to
valid Python attribute names (for example, key names with embedded
hyphens).

My own proposal uses a class to build the default representation.
Other people have already posted code that uses classes in different
ways, or that use a conventional Python data structure (for example,
an arrangement of dicts, lists or tuples to define the kays and their
default values). Another possible way is to provide a default text
representation of the INI file as a string; it allows to define which
keys are valid, and to provide default values, but with a very limited
degree of expresiveness. I sincerely think that a class-based
definition is easier to read and to manage than equivalent dict-based
representations or string-based representations.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 27 11:20:21 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:20:21 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Example of how to use logging for both screen and file
In-Reply-To: <5a309bd304102704452afdc053@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041027152021.43164.qmail@web25407.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

The SyslogHandler in the logging package uses UDP to
communicate with the syslog daemon. It's hard to tell
why events may not be showing up in the syslog - e.g.
network or firewall issues may prevent the packets
reaching the server. AFAIK, there is no problem with
the SyslogHandler. If in doubt, write a small Python
script to format a packet yourself and send it to
syslog directly (i.e. not via logging). If that works,
it points to a problem in logging. If it doesn't, it
points to a problem in your network setup (or your
test script).

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!  http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Tue Oct 26 18:26:36 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:26:36 +0200
Subject: Interpretor.
References: <494182a9.0410261410.43cd5226@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417ecf24$0$766$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Take a look at LEX ant YACC like python ports
I have had some luck with those tools
lex for lexical definitions
YACC (Yet Another Compiler Compiler) for grammar definitions

cheerz,
Ivo.


"Balaji" <balaji at email.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:494182a9.0410261410.43cd5226 at posting.google.com...
> Hello Everyone....
>
> I have created a simple GUI using wx python. Its an simple editor...
>
> Now what I want to do is pass the contents of this editor and receive
> solution from python.
>
> Suppose in the editor if I say x=2 and y=3 and then x+y I should get
> back the solution.
>
> In general i want to build an simple interpretor..
>
> Any ideas....
>
> Balaji




From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Sun Oct 17 03:18:07 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:18:07 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <4172158e.19710772@news.oz.net>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02> <4171edbf.9519908@news.oz.net>
	<ZKncd.1779$Ug4.1245@trndny01> <4172158e.19710772@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <P0pcd.673$TU5.60@trndny06>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 05:50:49 GMT, "Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote:
>>Sorry for the ambiguity. My case is actually pretty simple. '#' 
>>represents any single character, so it's essentially the same as re's 
>>'.'. The match must be exact, so the string and pattern must be of equal 
>>lengths. Each wildcard is independent of other wildcards. For example, 
>>suppose we restricted the possible characters to 1 and 0, then the 
>>pattern '##' would only match '00', '01', '10', and '11'. This pattern 
>>would not match '0', '111', etc. I feel that a trie would work well, but 
>>I'm concerned that for large patterns, the overhead in the Python 
>>implementation would be too inefficient.
> 
> 
> So is the set of patterns static and you want to find which pattern(s!)
> match dynamic input? How many patterns vs inputs strings? What max
> length patterns, input strings? Total volume?

Patterns and inputs are dynamic, input more so than patterns. The 
number, length, and volume of patterns and strings should be arbitrary.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 05:17:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:17:44 +0200
Subject: Module directory
References: <mailman.5105.1098086678.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glun7k.ubcsns3uu1azN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

m <akhavan_mohsen at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello ,How are you I write a module as you see :
> 
> # Fibonacci numbers module
> def fib(n): # write Fibonacci series up to n
> a, b = 0, 1
> while b < n:
> print b,
> a, b = b, a+b
> def fib2(n): # return Fibonacci series up to n
> result = []
> a, b = 0, 1
> while b < n:
> result.append(b)
> a, b = b, a+b
> return result

Some mutant space-eating nanovirus has eaten all the leading whitespace
on each line.  Make sure you put the spaces back (and don't use tabs,
use real spaces).


> the tutorials tells me to insert this module in the current 
> directory I couldn't find the current directory ,where we should put 
> our modules?

How you find out the current directory depends on your platform.  For
example, in all Unix-like shells, the command to use for the purpose is
pwd.  If you are using a Python interactive session, either at a
commandline or via IDLE or other IDE, try os.getcwd -- e.g.:

>>> import os
>>> os.getcwd()
'/Users/alex/downloads/Python-2.4b1'
>>> 

If you don't tell us what platform you're using, we can't guess.

Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 05:21:52 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:21:52 +0200
Subject: Establishing a p2p connection in python
References: <a50cee44.0410080026.30cf04f0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1glc4eg.zvju3nsu0g6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

gs <gs.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> We're about 30 friends who want the ability to share files.

You could look into BitTorrent, a popular p2p program which, I believe,
is implemented in Python.  Maybe, if not usable as-is, it might be made
to fit your needs with some minor modifications...?


Alex


From ville at spammers.com  Thu Oct  7 16:19:46 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 23:19:46 +0300
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <du7r7oa1dst.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Fernando" == Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:

    Fernando> That, and the fact that in _my_ opinion,
    Fernando> names-with-embedded-punctuation look ugly :)

Hear, hear!

Abundant ! and ? characters in functions are a good reason to *avoid*
Scheme. All that shift-pressing and noisy code doesn't suit my
aesthetic sensibilities.

It's already legal to use a convention like:

mystruct.sortD()   # destructive

if symbolP(obj): ...       # predicate

I estimate that ! and ? would be cute for a while, but would soon
become annoying, especially if *every* predicate suddenly started to
have "?".

--
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Wed Oct 20 11:30:25 2004
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 08:30:25 -0700
Subject: bz2 & cpu usage
References: <cl365b$hh8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <cl37a7$opn$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <7876a8ea.0410200730.4618ae92@posting.google.com>

Benjamin Niemann <b.niemann at betternet.de> wrote in message news:<cl37a7$opn$1 at online.de>...
> Under windows do something similar using the TaskManager -> Set Priority... 
> There should some windows API call to do this from your program, 
> probably involving the win32 extension.

Indeed.
----------------------------------------
import win32api, win32process

win32process.SetPriorityClass(win32api.GetCurrentProcess(),
win32process.BELOW_NORMAL_PRIORITY_CLASS)

... Invoke the compression portion of the program ...

win32process.SetPriorityClass(win32api.GetCurrentProcess(),
win32process.NORMAL_PRIORITY_CLASS)
----------------------------------------


win32all build 159 and earlier are missing the constant
win32process.BELOW_NORMAL_PRIORITY_CLASS; that can be fixed with:
----------------------------------------
win32process.BELOW_NORMAL_PRIORITY_CLASS = 16384
----------------------------------------


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Sat Oct 23 00:22:14 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 04:22:14 GMT
Subject: wxIEHTML
Message-ID: <20041023002214.29660.00006347@mb-m16.aol.com>

I know I asked this question before about wxhtml windows(thanks for the
answer), now I'm wanting links to open up in my default browser when I click on
them from a wxIE window.  I realize that all I have to do is right-click on the
link and just open it in a separate window, but in the interests of
completeness, if anybody can tell me how this can be done I'd be grateful.


From m_vddungen at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 04:58:11 2004
From: m_vddungen at yahoo.com (Marcel van den Dungen)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 01:58:11 -0700
Subject: Python in HTAs
References: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5091.1098050399.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jZBcd.46015$H11.1607139@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <98862c6.0410180058.3235269@posting.google.com>

Roger <Roger at see.my.sig> wrote in message news:<jZBcd.46015$H11.1607139 at twister1.libero.it>...
> IIRC, years ago there was a Python plug-in for Netscape.....long before 
> Mozilla was born.

I'm not trying to use Python as a scripting language in HTML pages.
HTAs are HTML applications that run as trusted applications outside
the sandbox.

Marcel.


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 19:46:15 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:46:15 -0400
Subject: binary numbers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4392.1097017158.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cjv58g$q5i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>	<E62dnZKZl9wKvP7cRVn-gw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.4392.1097017158.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41633247.6000400@gmail.com>

Darren Kirby wrote:
> quoth the Larry Bates:
> 
>>Integers are stored in memory as binary.
>>
>>x=5
>>
>>stores 5 in x in binary form.
>>
> 
> 
>>>>x=5
>>>>x
> 
> 5
> 
> 
>  I think our friend is looking for a module or function that turns 5 into 101 
> (or perhaps 00000101)
> 
> Brad, have a look here:
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/219300
> 
> -d

Thanks, this is what I need.


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct 30 06:23:16 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:23:16 +0200
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <slrnco6oak.nn.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnco6oak.nn.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
Message-ID: <2uh8ckF2954t4U1@uni-berlin.de>

Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone wrote:
> Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
>> Perl is going to change dramatically to become a more powerful and
>> easier to (read|write) language.
> 
> Why do you say this? Did you read the whole Apocalypses?

Yes, I read most of the Apocalypses, the Exegeses and the Synopses.

> Anyway 15 days ago freshmeat published this:
> http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/1339/

> Maybe, it's not that easier to read or write.

For average programs, it seems that it will. Just think about classes.
One thing the freshmeat article complains about is breaking
compatibility. Well, you can't correct design mistakes by keeping old
syntax around.

A great plus will be the new regular expressions.

>> Is Python taking a similar step (-> Python 3) some time in the near future?
> 
> Why? What do you need to do in python that you can't do right now? Isn't it
> read-write friendly enough?
> 
> Perl6 is, currently, a 4 year development effort that no one knows when will
> be ended (I even read that it will take another 4 years), maybe, if it takes
> so much to develop just the first version, it's really too complicated.

That's a point. The whole object system (roles, interfaces, etc.) is far
too complicated and almost no one will need it.

Reinhold

PS: I'm happy with Python, and I'm not going to complain about it. But
as a programmer who uses both languages, I'm just asking because I'm
curious...

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Thu Oct 21 21:45:27 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:45:27 -0700
Subject: Method Underscores? (and a 'solution')
In-Reply-To: <10ngldt145cmu53@news.supernews.com>
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298@jerf.org>
	<10ngldt145cmu53@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1098409528.6627.91.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 19:35 -0500, John Roth wrote:
> "Jeremy Bowers" <jerf at jerf.org> wrote in message 
> news:pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298 at jerf.org...
> >
> > But what mystical language exists that uses less punctuation than Python?
> > I've tried to come up with it, and even the obscure ones I can come up
> > with use more.
> 
> Forth. Postscript.

He did say mystical.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From avantman42 at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 27 09:26:50 2004
From: avantman42 at hotmail.com (Russ Phillips)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 06:26:50 -0700
Subject: wxPython - get text from wxTextCtrl on a seperate frame
Message-ID: <63d215dd.0410270526.551740a9@posting.google.com>

I'm just starting to learn Python & wxPython. I have a frame named
frSend in a file fSend. On this frame is a wxTextCtrl named txtMsg. I
have a module named defs.py

I would like to get the value of txtMsg from within defs.py

I tried the following:

    BodyText = fSend.frSend.txtMsg.GetValue ()

When I run it, I get the following error:

    AttributeError: class frSend has no attribute 'txtMsg'

Any help much appreciated.

Russ


From dimitri.pater at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 19:07:05 2004
From: dimitri.pater at gmail.com (dimitri pater)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 01:07:05 +0200
Subject: Please help a windows user get started with python/glade and an
	IDE.
In-Reply-To: <20041015224001.39DC.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
References: <ckouc4$7fa$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<20041015224001.39DC.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <e75321bd041015160747e0f10b@mail.gmail.com>

hello,
check out;
http://milugar.homeip.net:8080/archivos/wxglade-tutorial/out-html-english/wxpython-wxglade-tutorial.html
for a pretty good wxGlade tutorial


On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:40:01 +0200, Maciej Dziardziel
<fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl> wrote:
> Al Dykes wrote:
> 
> >
> > I'm looking for info on programming with glade on python, and maybe
> > some sample code to hack. I've got python installed, but need a howto
> > for glade and google doesn't help me.
> >
> > Any suggestions ?
> 
> Go to www.pygtk.org. You will find faq, tutorials and complete reference
> there.
> 
> --
> Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
> www.fiedzia.prv.pl
> 
> I believe in dragons, good men, and other fantasy creatures.
> 
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
Please visit dimitri's website: www.serpia.com


From mikemussman at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 13:23:27 2004
From: mikemussman at yahoo.com (Mike M)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 10:23:27 -0700
Subject: passing a socket to a spawned process.
Message-ID: <5d00592f.0410110923.2bb2b1ea@posting.google.com>

Is it possible?  In the parent process, I have a socket that binds,
listens and then accepts new connections (which creates new sockets in
the process).  I want to be able to pass some of these new sockets to
a spawned process.  Is it possible, and if so how?

Any help is much appreciated!!

Mike


From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct 13 14:25:37 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 18:25:37 GMT
Subject: failed delivery messages
References: <mailman.4869.1097682394.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416d7321$0$21773$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-13, Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:

> Okay, I hate to bitch, but is there any possibility of canceling this
> subscription?  I'm tired of getting a failed delivery message from this
> guy every time I post to the list.

You think that's bad, I don't even post (or subscribe) to "the
list", and _I_ keep getting crap like that.  

If whoever is gatewaying this group onto a mailing list wants
to have crap like that sent to the list subscribers that's
between you and him, but I don't see why non-subscribers should
be pestered.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  -- I can do
                                  at               ANYTHING... I can
                               visi.com            even... SHOPLIFT!!


From jerf at jerf.org  Fri Oct 22 01:00:32 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 05:00:32 GMT
Subject: Some more notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5289.1098406787.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.22.00.59.40.323992@jerf.org>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:59:41 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
>> 7) There's something that I don't understand. I'm not a OOP purist 
>> but finding functions like this beside normal methods seems odd to me:
>> len(s) length of s
>> min(s) smallest item of s
>> max(s) largest item of s
>> For uniformity they can be:
>> s.len()
>> s.min()
>> s.max()
>> etc.
> 
> I don't have a good answer for this.

See the current thread "Python and generic programming". Those are
probably best though of as generic algorithms that can work even when
"max" isn't implemented.

Python 2.3.4 (#1, Sep 28 2004, 20:15:25) 
[GCC 3.3.3 20040412 (Gentoo Linux 3.3.3-r6, ssp-3.3.2-2, pie-8.7.6)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def somenumbers():
...     yield 1
...     yield 5
...     yield 2 
... 
>>> max(somenumbers())
5
>>> 


"max" isn't a method in any sense of the term that I am aware of, so it
would be wrong to put it there. In some sense, then, this is *more* pure
OO than, say, Java's "Everything is a method of some object and to hell
with the consequences!" approach.

(It seems like the more mature I get as a programmer, the more Java
disgusts me. I'm beginning to have to stretch for reasons to like it at
all; one after another they keep falling down for me. But I digress...)


From johnathan_doeNOSPAMTHANKS at fastmail.com.au  Fri Oct 15 04:57:11 2004
From: johnathan_doeNOSPAMTHANKS at fastmail.com.au (Johnathan Doe)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:57:11 +1000
Subject: Easy web session module with Python?
In-Reply-To: <416df772$0$3947$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <416df772$0$3947$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <416f90e7$0$25592$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

Thanks guys for your replies!  That was really helpful.  Looks like I 
need a bit more time to study everything available for Python.  You 
know, I wonder why Python doesn't have more "native" web development 
infrastructure like PHP.  I think (abviously so do zillions of others) 
that Python is a beautiful and usable language, and I reckon that this 
issue of some kind of standard web dev module is holding back its 
popularity.  It could be at least a few orders of magnitude more popular 
than PHP if it was heavy in web development infrastructure.

Cheers
Johnathan


From daniel at dittmar.net  Tue Oct  5 17:32:53 2004
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:32:53 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>	<cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2sgi8iF1l9okoU1@uni-berlin.de>

Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
> So, IMHO, there are basically the following design decisions:
> GIL: large granularity
> MSL: (many small locks) would slow down the overall execution of Python
>      programs.
> MSLu: (many small locks, unsafe) inacceptable because it would change
>       Python experience ;)

You forgot GarbageCollection instead of reference counting.

Daniel


From ej  Wed Oct  6 18:39:50 2004
From: ej (Erik Johnson)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:39:50 -0600
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
Message-ID: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>


    I am rather new to Python and still learning the finer points. I wanted
to have a class which has a member dictionary of other class instances, a
constructor that would initiate that dict with an empty dict if you didn't
provide one, and a member function to stick more other classes into that
dictionary.

I wrote something akin to this:

#! /usr/bin/python

#=======================================================================
class Bar:

    def __init__(self, foo_d={}):
        self.foo_d = foo_d

    def add_foo(self, foo):
        self.foo_d[foo.key] = foo
#=======================================================================


#=======================================================================
class Foo:
    pass
#=======================================================================


    You might be surprised to find out that all the Bar objects end up
sharing the same foo_d dictionary.
    I certainly was.


>>> from Test import *
>>> b1 = Bar()
>>> b2 = Bar()
>>> dir(b1)
['__doc__', '__init__', '__module__', 'add_foo', 'foo_d']
>>> b1.foo_d
{}
>>> b2.foo_d
{}
>>> f = Foo()
>>> f.key = 'key'
>>> b1.add_foo(f)
>>> b1.foo_d
{'key': <Test.Foo instance at 0x817821c>}
>>> b2.foo_d
{'key': <Test.Foo instance at 0x817821c>}
>>>

    A single, shared dictionary is definitely not what I wanted or expected
and didn't see why it was happening.  So... I struggled with that for a
while and eventually reasoned that the {} in the argument list to my
constructor is executed at the time of class definition, and is essentially
a reference to an instantiated dictionary object and therefor there is a
little empty dictionary sitting in memory somewhere prior to me ever
instantiating a Bar object. New Bar objects constructed without providing
their own foo_d end up sharing that one.  I think this makes sense enough,
now  (if I'm missing something, speak up).

    So, one work-around is to do this:

#=======================================================================
class Bar:

    def __init__(self, foo_d=None)
        if foo_d:
            self.foo_d = foo_d
        else:
            self.foo_d = {}
#=======================================================================


     This works. I reasoned that, unlike above, the {} in this definition is
not executed until a Bar object is instantiated. But there is a little voice
in my head saying "This is clunky. There must be some smarter, more Pythonic
way to do this sort of default handling without ending up with a single
shared object"  As I said, I am pretty new to Python and I am pretty pleased
with Python so far and expect to be using it more and more, (currently
porting and re-writing a lot of clunky PHP). I figured I might as well take
the time to learn this finer point now.

    This example is trivial and it may seem silly to waste time considering
the 5 lines in my constructor, but this is just a pared down skeleton of the
problem I ran into and I am about to write lots of classes with lots of
members and want to call constructors with different numbers of arguments
and have different sorts of defaults (not necessarily shared, but maybe) for
the arguments not passed explicitly. And so, if my workaround above is not a
very clean one, I want to learn to do it the right way before I amplify it
1000X.

    So... Yes? Is there a better way to do this sort of thing, or is that
perfectly reasonable code?

    Thanks for taking the time to read my post! :)

-ej




From mwh at python.net  Wed Oct 13 07:22:24 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:22:24 GMT
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <m3k6tuzwuo.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> >Nicolas Fleury wrote:
> >
> >> In the following example:
> >> 
> >> class MyMetaclass(type): pass
> >> class MyBaseType(object): __metaclass__ = MyMetaclass
> >> class MyType(MyBaseType):
> >>      x = 4
> >>      y = 5
> >>      z = 6
> >> 
> >> Is there any way to modify MyMetaclass to keep the order of x,y,z
> >> somewhere?
> >
[snip]
> 
> Or, an ugly hack that might work for a while, depending on how
> co_names is really generated. It seems in order of occurrence
> (including right hand sides of assignment, but still top down) ...

I don't know whether to laugh or cry!  Nice one.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  <lament> Slashdot karma, unfortunately, is not real karma, because
           it doesn't involve the death of the people who have it
                                                -- from Twisted.Quotes


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Tue Oct  5 19:54:16 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:54:16 -0400
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <59e9fd3a04100516356ea1cc30@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<864d3709041003152471cf26fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041005215749.GA5891@burma.localdomain>
	<59e9fd3a04100516356ea1cc30@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041005235416.GB10507@performancedrivers.com>

On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 10:35:01AM +1100, Andrew Durdin wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:57:49 -0300, Gustavo Niemeyer
> <niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:
> > 
> > That's not true. The def statement is rerun every loop, no matter
> > what parameters are used. One can check that by issuing:
> > 
> > print MyClass.method0.im_func
> > print MyClass.method1.im_func
> 
> Hmmm... If I create MyClass as above, I get the following results
> which I don't understand:
> 
> >>> mc = MyClass()
> >>> id(mc.method0)
> 9343264
> >>> id(mc.method1)
> 9343264
> >>> mc.method0
> <bound method MyClass.newmethod of <__main__.MyClass instance at 0x008E93A0>>
> >>> mc.method1
> <bound method MyClass.newmethod of <__main__.MyClass instance at 0x008E93A0>>
> 
> Why do mc.method0 and mc.method1 appear to be the same object?

Read it more closely, they are just saying they are bound methods of the same
object instance, not that they are the same object themselves.

> Even more confusing to me is:
> 
> >>> class Foo:
> ...     def method0(self):
> ...             pass
> ...     def method1(self):
> ...             pass
> ...     def method2(self):
> ...             pass
> ...
> >>> Foo.method0
> <unbound method Foo.method0>
> >>> Foo.method1
> <unbound method Foo.method1>
> >>> Foo.method2
> <unbound method Foo.method2>
> >>> f = Foo()
> >>> id(f.method0)
> 9345304
> >>> id(f.method1)
> 9918464
> >>> id(f.method2)
> 9918464
> 
> Here f.method1 and f.method2 share the same id, which is different to
> that of f.method1...
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me as to why this happens?

A temporary object is being made when you lookup 'method2' in 'f'
Try assigning the value to a local variable and then running id() on those
local variables.  The id()s should remain stable. What you are seeing is 
just a fluke, the same id gets used and then scrapped and then used again.

-Jack


From olli at haluter.fromme.com  Mon Oct 18 12:13:39 2004
From: olli at haluter.fromme.com (Oliver Fromme)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 16:13:39 GMT
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2ti8djF1vm4hiU1@uni-berlin.de>

Jonathan  Ellis wrote:
 > Roger Irwin wrote:
 > > Riccardo Rossi wrote:
 > > > How does Python pass arguments to a function? By value or by reference?
 > > 
 > > By reference to an object....See the python tutorial.
 > 
 > Wrong.  Here is the difference between pass by reference and pass by
 > value to CS types:
 > 
 > > > > def foo(a): a = 1
 > ...
 > > > > i = 10
 > > > > foo(i)
 > > > > print i
 > 
 > With pass-by-reference, i would now be 1.  However, since python is
 > pass-by-value, it remains 10.

It remains 10 because integers are immutable, so the function
code cannot modify the caller's variable anyway.  However, if
you pass a mutable variable, things look a little different:

>>> def foo(a): a[0] = 1
...
>>> i = [10]
>>> foo(i)
>>> print i
[1]

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Konrad-Celtis-Str. 72, 81369 Munich, Germany

``All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream.''
(E. A. Poe)


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 14 10:49:28 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:49:28 +0100
Subject: Easy web session module with Python?
In-Reply-To: <416df772$0$3947$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <416df772$0$3947$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <Dlwbd.33422$Z14.13444@news.indigo.ie>

[Johnathan Doe]
> Hi,  I'm looking for an easy way to do web development with Python 
> (session handling a-la ASP/JSP/PHP, that kind of thing).  I've looked at 
> PythonWeb.org but it has bugs because it's not tested on UNIX platforms 
> it seems (I've created some patches and sent them to the author), and a 
> quick browse through PyPI in the mature/stable packages doesn't reveal 
> much hope, unless I've missed something.  I've googled for session 
> handling with Python, and it seems something called "pso" would be ok, 
> but that is only mod_python as far as I know, and I may need something 
> that works with cgi only hosts.

Ah, the perennial problems with python web software. You find something 
that is close to what you need, but it doesn't work on the platform or 
server you want, or it is so deeply embedded in some given framework 
that it not reusable outside that framework without a total rewrite.

> I could write my own I suppose, but surely someone has done this before? 

Yes, this particular wheel has been reinvented before, again and again 
and again and ..........

>  Thanks for any tips!

There is a new python web standard called WSGI that seeks to refactor 
out these kinds of reusable components and make them portable not just 
between servers but also between frameworks. WSGI refers to these as 
"middleware components".

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0333.html

Although WSGI is still a standard in formation, I recommend that you at 
least take a look at it: by starting down a standardised road, you will 
at least have a chance to reuse other peoples components.

I know of only one WSGI-compliant session module: the one written by Ian 
Bicking, principal author of WebWare. It is not fully released yet, i.e. 
it is only available from Ian's Subversion source code repository. You 
can find out how to access that here

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/web-sig/2004-October/000941.html

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Oct 21 12:35:17 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:35:17 -0300
Subject: key argument for max?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7AAF@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Steven Bethard]

#- I was wondering if there's any plans to add a "key" argument to max
#- (and min) like was done for sort(ed)?  I fairly often run into a
#- situation where I have something like:
#- 
#- counts = {}
#- for item in iterable:
#-     counts[item] = counts.get(item, 0) + 1
#- _, max_item = max((count, item) for item, count in counts.items())
#- 
#- It would be nice to be able to write that last like like:
#- 
#- max(counts, key=counts.__getitem__)

Don't understand why you're doing that. I would do:

>>> lst = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'a', 'd', 'b', 'a']
>>> counts = {}
>>> for item in lst:
	counts[item] = counts.get(item, 0) + 1

>>> counts
{'a': 3, 'c': 1, 'b': 2, 'd': 1}
>>> max_item = max(counts.values())
>>> max_item
3

.	Facundo
-------------- next part --------------
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From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 22 06:57:38 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 13:57:38 +0300
Subject: Method Underscores?
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<4b39d922.0410211318.38944f20@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7k6tjnhp9.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Lonnie" == Lonnie Princehouse <finite.automaton at gmail.com> writes:

    Lonnie> It's extremely common for Python newbies to accidentally
    Lonnie> overwrite the names of important things.  I see stuff like
    Lonnie> this all the time:

    Lonnie> list = [1,2,3]
    Lonnie> str = "Hello world"

This is not really a mistake. If you don't use "list" builtin in the
same function, it's ok to override it. Not so on module level, of
course.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From listsub at wickedgrey.com  Mon Oct  4 21:44:31 2004
From: listsub at wickedgrey.com (Eli Stevens (WG.c))
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:44:31 -0700
Subject: How can I make an existing object read-only?
In-Reply-To: <4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <4161FC7F.3040306@wickedgrey.com>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> (and Steven Bethard also, essentially)
> 
>> Instead of passing the bare object, pass it wrapped into something like:
>>
>> class nowrite:
>>     def __init__(self, obj): self.__dict__['_obj'] = obj
>>     def __getattr__(self, n): return getattr(self._obj, n)
>>     def __setattr__(self, n, *args): raise AttributeError, n
>>     __delattr__ = __setattr__
>>
> 
> Now that was simple, why didn't I think of that myself.
> Too much Java coding apparently clogs up your mind :o)

Quite (I do Java during my day job ;).

Another alternative that actually locks the object down, could look 
something like this (of course, all the prints need to get nuked, but 
they helped me see what was going on while coding this up):


class Foo(object):
     def __init__(self):
         # Needed to jumpstart the whole thing
         self.__dict__["_CurrentState__setattr__"] = self._readWriteSetattr
         self.bar = "bar"
         self.baz = "baz"

     def ReadWrite(self):
         print "ReadWrite"
         self._CurrentState__setattr__ = self._readWriteSetattr

     def ReadOnly(self):
         print "ReadOnly"
         self._CurrentState__setattr__ = self._readOnlySetattr

     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
         self._CurrentState__setattr__(name, value)

     def _readWriteSetattr(self, name, value):
         print "_readWriteSetattr", name, value
         self.__dict__[name] = value

     def _readOnlySetattr(self, name, value):
         print "_readOnlySetattr", name, value
         if name == "_CurrentState__setattr__":
             self.__dict__[name] = value
         else:
             raise AttributeError, "page object is read-only"


While coding this, I learned that:

         self.__setattr__ = self._readOnlySetattr

Doesn't DWIM.  ;)  Hence the _CurrentState__setattr__ hack.  Is this 
pythonic?  Dunno.  Thoughts?

I also don't know which would be faster between the proxy and having an 
extra level of indirection in __setattr__.  I would guess it would 
depend on if you do more reads or writes in the tight loops.  If your 
code is read-heavy, this might actually be a win.

Of course, if you are _really_ concerned with performance, you might 
just turn the whole protection thing off when in production.

HTH,
Eli


From olli at haluter.fromme.com  Thu Oct 21 09:01:19 2004
From: olli at haluter.fromme.com (Oliver Fromme)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 13:01:19 GMT
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch>
Message-ID: <2tpq8vF20rf1rU1@uni-berlin.de>

Daniel Mueller <da_mueller at gmx.net> wrote:
 > i want to read the content of a file every 10 seconds. now what is the 
 > best funktion to do that? to open the file, read it and close it 
 > consumes a lot of CPU time. is there a better solution?

The portable way is to stat the file (see os.stat) every
10 seconds, look at the mtime (modification time), and
if it did change, then open/read/close.  This still means
polling the file, but at least stat is much more efficient
than open/read/close.  If you're also interested in changes
to the metainformations of the file (permissions, owner
etc.), you also have to look at the ctime.

If you're lucky enough to work on a FreeBSD UNIX system
(and don't need a portable solution), you can use FreeBSD's
kqueue API.  Using that interface, you don't have to poll
at all.  The kernel will notify you immediately when a
specific event occurs, such as someone writing to a certain
file (this is used by the "tail -f" command, for example,
so it doesn't have to poll the file).  The Python bindings
for the kqueue interface are in the ports collection of
FreeBSD (see ports/devel/kqueue).  Otherwise, see this
webpage for more information:

http://people.freebsd.org/~dwhite/PyKQueue/

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Konrad-Celtis-Str. 72, 81369 Munich, Germany

``All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream.''
(E. A. Poe)


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Oct 24 17:39:00 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 17:39:00 -0400
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <clh7dd$mjt$1@sea.gmane.org>


"drs" <drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com> wrote in message 
news:VUyed.320061$bp1.273357 at twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> again.  I am looking for a list of all unique strings of length x whose
> elements are from the set a, b, and c.
>
> So, for example, in this case it would be
>
> aaa, aab, aac, aba, abb, abc, aca, acb, acc, ... cca, ccb, ccc

This is equivalent to finding all n digit base k numbers, where k is the 
size of the set and where numbers are padded on the left with 0s.  You 
example above is equivalent to

000, 001, 002, 010, 011, 012, 020, 021, 022, ... 330, 331, 333

There are lots of related algorithms for this set/sequence of N=n**k 
formatted numbers.  Which you really want depends on questions like:

Do you *really*need character strings or would range(N) or xrange(N) 
actually do as well?  Since the latter is obviously trivial, think about 
whether the application can be changed a bit to use numbers instead of 
string representations thereof.

Do you need to use an arbitrary set of characters or would a standard set 
'0', '1', ... do as well?

Do you you need the N=n**k strings all at once in an explicit list or set 
or will a generator producing them one at a time do?

Do you need them ordered, and if so, in any particular order, whether in a 
list or from a generator?

Terry J. Reedy





From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 16 11:25:58 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:25:58 -0400
Subject: printing file/image on default Printer
In-Reply-To: <Xns957AE193A25BDaskariaddressNonVali@207.35.177.135>
References: <Xns957960B5B9520askariaddressNonVali@207.35.177.135>
	<gOG8d.291818$4o.115966@fed1read01>
	<Xns957AE193A25BDaskariaddressNonVali@207.35.177.135>
Message-ID: <F8bcd.2673$lp6.646@okepread01>

Askari wrote:

> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in
> news:gOG8d.291818$4o.115966 at fed1read01: 
> 
[...]>>
>>Take as look at wxPython, 
[...]
> 
> wxPython : This #%? module causing big problem on most computer. Some .py 
> (for no ressons), when terminate, raise a Windows error (critical). 
> And, IT'S this module who "do" this conflit problem; When wxPython is 
> installed, errors raise; when uninstalled, no error, when wxPython is 
> installed, errors raise, when uninstalled, no error, etc.
> 
> "maybe" a good module, but enter conflit with some .py and it's not 
> acceptable for me,
> thanks but not good idea,
> 
Each to their own, but I (seemingly capable of finding problems with 
even the simplest of installations) can honestly say that I have found 
wxPython to be a robust and usable system.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jackson.pip at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 11:45:42 2004
From: jackson.pip at gmail.com (pip)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 08:45:42 -0700
Subject: Referencing objects own functions
Message-ID: <48a9916d.0410190745.4c9d0536@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

Pretend I have the following:

class foo:
  commands = [
    'name': 'help',
    'desc': 'Print help',
  ]

  def print_help(self):
    print "Help is on the way!"

I would like to add another entry to the commands dict. called 'func'
or something which contains a reference to a function in the foo
class. What would the entry look like if atall possible?

I would rather not use eval if possible.

Thanks,

Pip


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 07:51:40 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 04:51:40 -0700
Subject: locks
In-Reply-To: <416D1286.5020802@bellsouth.net>
References: <1097665551.416d0c0f7bef5@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>
	<416D1286.5020802@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <1097668300.12092.52.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 07:33 -0400, Jeremy Jones wrote:
> Ajay wrote:

> >what would happen if i try to access a variable locked by another thread? i
> >am not trying to obtain a lock on it, just trying to access it.

> >
> I may be wrong, but I'm not sure you can lock a variable.  

I assumed the OP was referring to threading.Lock/RLock.  But maybe not?

> Actually, you 
> probably could do something like "locking a variable" with 
> __getattr__(), __setattr(), and __delattr__() and sprinkling gently with 
> locks.  The locking mechanisms in the thread and threading libraries 
> (allocate_lock() and Lock() respectively) lock sections of code.  When 
> you hit a section of code you want locked, you do a <lock>.acquire() and 
> when you want to unlock an acquired lock, you do a <lock>.release().  If 
> you have a variable in a section of code that you have locked, you can 
> still see/smell/taste/touch/modify it from another thread if you can 
> access it.  So, if you've passed an object to multiple threads and one 
> has acquired a lock to a specific section of code, another thread can't 
> enter that section of code until the first releases the lock.  But, if 
> you have the same object in a different section of code, you can execute 
> that unlocked code that contains/points-to the object.

I usually just use a class with lock/release methods that invoke the
appropriate threading.Lock call, but your idea is interesting as it can
help avoid forgetting to acquire the lock.  In fact, with an appropriate
set of methods for accessing/modifying etc, it seems possible to ensure
the lock is released from within the class as well.  Doing it with
properties (which I haven't played with to-date) seems even more
interesting.  I may have to whip up a class in this vein to give it a
try.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From dd55 at cornell.edu  Thu Oct 14 13:10:47 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:10:47 -0400
Subject: question on list comprehensions
References: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<416e951c$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<ckm58j$dgj$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.4960.1097773184.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckmbve$gr8$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:16:12 -0400, Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> wrote:
>> I am simulating diffraction from an array of particles. I have to
>> calculate a complex array for each particle, add up all these arrays, and
>> square the magnitude of the result. If I do a for loop, it takes about
>> 6-8 seconds for a 2000 element array added up over 250 particles. In
>> reality, I will have 2500 particles, or even 2500x2500 particles.
> 
> Can't you just sum them inplace as you calculate every new array, for
> each particle? Something like this (pseudo code):
> 
> result = make_empty_array()
> for particle in particles:
>     result += make_complex_array(particle)
> return square(result)
> 
> It does not grow the result array indefinitely.... so it solves your
> problem, if that's what you need/want to avoid.
> 

You're example is what I have now, it's what I want to replace.

I am trying to make the operations general, so I can do 1x1, 1xN, and NxN
result arrays. In the case of NxN, the overhead in the for loop can be
small compared to the time required for the array operations. But for a 1x1
result array, the for loop is a huge time sink. I thought it would be nice
to get the speedup of the list comprehension, but see no way to change the
array in place. The list comprehension wants to create a new list instead.

At any rate, I found another way to frame my problem to get the speedup.
It's entirely based on linear algebra operations, no ingenious coding
involved, so I wont share the details. They are pretty mundane.


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct 13 03:39:37 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 07:39:37 GMT
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4q1.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.4760.1097598524.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncmpmq9.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-10-12, Clark C. Evans schreef <cce at clarkevans.com>:
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 08:19:55AM +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>| Op 2004-10-11, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
>| > gabriele renzi wrote:
>| >> then what you want is a better lambda. One where you can use return, 
>| >> maybe, and  where you can have statements and multiple expressions.
>| >> Don't throw away the baby with the bathwater.
>| >
>| > But because of Python's line- and indentation-based syntax, doing all of 
>| > that on a single line is... um... awkward at best, to put it mildly.  
>| 
>| Which is one of the reasons I think the indentation-based syntax was
>| a mistake. If the syntax becomes an argument against a construct
>| in the language, something is wrong with the syntax IMO.
>
> Indentation based structure is a godsend; a divine insight if you may.
> Python is much much better for it.

That's your opinion I disagree.

I find it especially annoying when I work interactively. I sometimes
copy and paste something from an other window and it is just frustrating
to get a syntax error back just because you had copied an extra space
in front of the expression.

> However, just beacuse it can use
> indentation, doesn't mean that indentation should be mandated for every
> case.  Python uses {} and [] to scope dict and list items, but this does
> not mean that a indentation based version of this wouldn't be welcome.
> In general, indentation is great for "outer-structure" that is, 
> delimiting large code blocks.  While delimiter based scoping is good
> for inner structures, small blocks of code.  It should not be an 
> either/or thing, one should properly have the option of using either
> option depending upon which style brings the most clarity.

Well it isn't an either/or thing and I have seen it often enough that
a proposed language structure was argued against because fitting it
in the indentation-based syntax was going to be difficult/awkward or
something like that. Suppose for the sake af the argument that someone
comes up with a language structute that has almost everyone agree with
that it would be usefull to include in the language. However the
most natural indentation for the structure would be something like this:

  start:

      code

    control:

      code

    control:

      code

I fear that alone would kill the possibility of including it in
python.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From pete.fraser at snellwilcox.com  Thu Oct  7 10:50:15 2004
From: pete.fraser at snellwilcox.com (Pete Fraser)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:50:15 +0100
Subject: Aborting a Python import from C API
Message-ID: <047d01c4ac7c$f5a8d060$0a9617ac@scrumpy>

I have written what is effectively a debugger for Python written in 'C'/C++

I have used the PyEval_SetTrace() to set a trace handler and I use this to step through python code very nicely.
However, when I am part way through a file and want to save the (modified) file back to disk it seems to be locked
by Python interpreter.

How can I stop the Python interpreter which is currently waiting for a return from the Trace function that I provided (the thread running Python is suspended).
Returning 0/1 from the Trace function doesn't seem to stop it - is there any other function that I should be calling first.

Thanks for any help for this newbie in Python.

Pete

This email and any attachments is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any use, disclosure, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If received in error, please delete this email and any attachments and confirm this to the sender.
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From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Oct 26 18:45:43 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:45:43 +0200
Subject: ANN: python-ldap-2.0.4
Message-ID: <mailman.5563.1098887828.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>

Find a new pre-release of python-ldap:

   http://python-ldap.sourceforge.net/

python-ldap provides an object-oriented API to access LDAP directory
servers from Python programs. It mainly wraps the OpenLDAP 2.x libs for
that purpose. Additionally it contains modules for other LDAP-related
stuff (e.g. processing LDIF, LDAPURLs and LDAPv3 schema).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Released 2.0.4 2004-10-27

Changes since 2.0.3:

Modules/:
* Applied some fixes for 64-bit platforms to LDAPObject.c
* Constants ldap.TLS_AVAIL and ldap.SASL_AVAIL will indicate
   whether python-ldap was built with support for SSL/TLS
   and/or SASL

setup.py and Modules/:
* Applied some fixes for building under Win32


From newsgroups.nospam at dfackrell.mailshell.com  Thu Oct 28 18:13:16 2004
From: newsgroups.nospam at dfackrell.mailshell.com (Daniel Fackrell)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:13:16 -0600
Subject: Constructor problem
References: <418169ec$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <clrr0r$45q$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

"Nick" <mediocre_person at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:418169ec$1_1 at alt.athenanews.com...
> I'm writing a simple class to represent a deck of cards. Here is the
> stripped down version. Notice classes Deck and Deck2. Class Deck works,
> Deck2 does not. My thinking is that it should be more efficient (a la
> Deck2) to pre-create the list, and then modify it, rather than appending

I strongly suspect premature optimization here.

> Cards as in Deck.
>
> # --------------------snip--------------
> class Card:
>      def __init__(self, rank=0, suit=0):
>          self.rank=rank
>          self.suit=suit
>
>      def __repr__(self):
>          r = "A23456789TJQK"[self.rank]
>          s = "SHCD"[self.suit]
>          return r+s
>
>
> class Deck:
>      def __init__(self):
>          self.deck = []
>          for r in range(13):
>              for s in range(4):
>                  self.deck.append(Card(r,s))
>
> class Deck2:
>      def __init__(self):
>          self.deck = 52 * [Card()]

This creates a list of 52 references to the card created by Card().

>          n = 0
>          for r in range(13):
>              for s in range(4):
>                  self.deck[n].rank = r
>                  self.deck[n].suit = s
>                  n = n + 1
>
>
> a = Deck()
> print "A --> ", a.deck
> b = Deck2()
> print "B --> ", b.deck
> # ------------snap---------------------
>
> Deck A looks right, 52 cards, one of each. Deck B, on the other hand, is
> 52 of the same card, all rank 12, suit 3.
>
> What am I missing???
>
> Thanks!
> Nick.

How about a list comprehension?

class Deck3:
     def __init__(self):
         self.deck = [Card(r, s) for s in range(4) for s in range(13)]





From robby at planetargon.com  Wed Oct 13 12:08:04 2004
From: robby at planetargon.com (Robby Russell)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:08:04 -0700
Subject: search in tgz file content
In-Reply-To: <2t5189F1rf5gmU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2t5189F1rf5gmU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1097683684.4702.6.camel@vacant>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 18:51 +0300, News.Individual.NET wrote:
> Hi All,
> Is there a way to search in *.tgz file? I mean to search in files that are
> included in that *.tgz file. Some ideas?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> Zlatozar
> 

There is a shell program called zgrep that I believe can do this.

-Robby

-- 
/***************************************
* Robby Russell | Owner.Developer.Geek
* PLANET ARGON  | www.planetargon.com
* Portland, OR  | robby at planetargon.com
* 503.351.4730  | blog.planetargon.com
* PHP/PostgreSQL Hosting & Development
****************************************/

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From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Wed Oct  6 19:01:07 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:01:07 +0100
Subject: difficult zipefile Question
In-Reply-To: <d588131f.0410061437.4ecda4bf@posting.google.com>
References: <d588131f.0410061437.4ecda4bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck1tfn$q64$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

matthiasjanes wrote:
> def zipit(path, ziper):
> 
>   for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):
> 
>     for anyFile in files:
> 
>       fullname = os.path.join(root, anyFile)

Where is the "ziper" variable used? I don't see how this code does 
anything except create an empty zipfile.

$ python samplecode.py

$ unzip test.zip
Archive:  test.zip
warning [test.zip]:  zipfile is empty

If you Google for <zipfile empty> you will find a python-list thread 
with this solution in it:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-June/170526.html

Alternatively you could submit a patch or a bug.

HTH,
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From juneaftn1 at kornet.net  Tue Oct  5 09:53:59 2004
From: juneaftn1 at kornet.net (Changjune Kim)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 22:53:59 +0900
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted Data
	Chunk Efficiently
References: <ba1e306f.0410050436.59d455bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cju8tu$kmg$1@news1.kornet.net>

"Jane Austine" <janeaustine50 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ba1e306f.0410050436.59d455bf at posting.google.com...
> Peter L. Hansen wrote:
> >
> > Jane Austine wrote:
> > > I have student_names and their scores, which are between 0..100.
> > >
> > > I want to retrieve in the sorted order in terms of score, Nth
> > > student's name to N+10th student's name along with their scores.
> > > (suppose a web page showing top 10 students and there are "next page"
> > > link and if you follow the link there shows next top 10 students with
> > > "prev" and "next" page links.)
> > >
> > > The list is dynamically resized -- elements are added or deleted. The
> > > list could go fairly long enough that pulling all the data on memory
> > > at once is not a good choice.
> >
> > "Fairly long enough"?  I imagine you'd have to have thousands of
> > students before just doing the simplest thing (ignore performance
> > and read the whole list) would become a noticable problem.
>
> First of all, thank you for replying me.
>
> Yes, I do have more than a thousand.
>
> >
> > It's rare in an environment like the web, with all the user and
> > network delays that are present, that optimizing at the level
> > you are trying to do is worth the effort.
> >
>
> Yes. Especially when there are CPU load limits(process going on like a
> few seconds using more than 10% will get warning) on the server, and
> it is shared among a few users(using a web hosting service).
>
> > > What algorithm and data/file structure are most efficient? (the
> > > environment is "cgi" based web environment)
> >
> > And unless mod_python is involved, CGI adds yet another significant
> > delay, masking any slight difference in performance from the optimal
> > approach and the simplistic one.
> >
>
> True. So the situation is not very good, and that's why I need a
> clever scheme. :)
>
> > > Simplest approach would be using btree from bsddb.
> >
> > Nope, simplest would be just use a list and ignore the theoretical
> > but unnoticable performance issues.  Remember, the actual memory
> > allocation and manipulations of the list elements happens in C code,
> > not in Python, so it is very fast.
> >
> > > What can I do instead? What data structure allows you to access
> > > nth..n+10th data from the sorted list in a constant time?
> >
> > If you've got more than 1000 students, it _might_ be worth
> > analyzing this further. :-)
> >
>
> Actually, it's not exactly students. They are some kind of elements
> and they have a few attributes(columns) like timestamp and etc, and
> can be sorted by a few columns(single key sorting though).
>
> Most of the time I suppose the lists would grow up to 10000 ~ 90000
> elements.
>
> -Jane

If using standalone RDBMS engine(like MySQL) is not your choice, and you
want to stick to bsddb, take a look at test_basics.py in the lib/bsddb/test
directory. There you will see BTreeRecnoTestCase.





From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct 28 21:20:47 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 01:20:47 GMT
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5640.1099009520.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5640.1099009520.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PVggd.10263$KJ6.4828@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
>> Perl                    6
>> Python                  6
>>  
>>
> Not above Perl?  I shall have to think about this one.

When I worked in Perl I was about as productive in writing code
as with Python, so this feels about right.

The advantages for Python come when many people work together
(either on a team or pulling in sources from different places)
   - it scales well, so it's better in larger projects
   - I understand how to do OO programming in Python
   - it's easier for the non-software developers I work with
       to use Python for their programming tasks
   - there are fewer corners to worry about.  Perl is
       deliberately full of pointy edges.

These are not orthogonal.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com



From mmsmtp at noisylesec.fr  Thu Oct 14 04:37:07 2004
From: mmsmtp at noisylesec.fr (mmsmtp at noisylesec.fr)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:37:07 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Message_supprim=E9?=
Message-ID: <416E3AB3.000107.31548@smtp.noisylesec.fr>

Scanner: MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 

Problem description:
Email data:
MessageID: 
From: python-list at python.org
To: narima.azizi at noisylesec.fr
Cc: 
Subject: Re: Your product
Scanning part []

Scanning part [your_product.pif]
Attachment validity check: passed.
Virus identity found: W32/Netsky-D

Virus identity found: W32/Netsky-D







From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Tue Oct 12 04:00:36 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:00:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Windows XP Balloon Tips?
References: <1d6cdae3041011094946722f33@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4714.1097514475.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncmlmfg.fp.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <Xns958065DCDDA60cpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>

Dave Benjamin,

> Just out of curiosity, is there a way to do this also from PythonWin
> (without having ctypes installed)?

the game is called "AnimateWindow".
I posted a ctypes-programm to pywin32 mailinglist two weeks ago. It just 
was not robust enough to go into the wiki.

With build 203 Python win32 extension by Mark Hammond also wrap the 
AnimateWindow function (on XP), but they came out yesterday so I just read 
the change notes that they do; did not find a demo. So... please download 
pywin32 and try :)))

Harald





From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Wed Oct 27 23:46:58 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:46:58 -0400
Subject: how come .insert() don't work
References: <41801753$0$62043$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<41801852$0$189$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<41803447$0$41713$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <qnkacu7qzbh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

Bennie <bennie at rotzjes.nl> writes:
> Martin v. L?wis wrote:
>> Bennie wrote:
>>
>>> def tekst_in(self, tag):
>>>         tekst_tag={'p': '\t\t<p>\n\n\t\t</p>\n', 'br': '<br />'}
>>>         self.tekst.insert(INSERT, tekst_tag[tag])
>>>
>>> Then I get a AttributeError...
>>> I seached the net, can come op white a answer.
>> What specific attribute is mentioned in the AttributeError?
>> That self has no attribute tekst, or that self.tekst has
>> no attribute insert?
>> If the former, you need to arrange your class so that self has
>> an attribute tekst (e.g. by initializing tekst in __init__).
>> If the latter: what kind of thing is self.tekst?
>> Regards,
>> Martin
> self.tekst is a Tkinter.Text() so it has a insert attribute, .insert()

See, you should have mentioned that before. What you should also
mention is:

1) the _exact_ text of the traceback. Saying "I get an AttributeError"
   is not nearly enough: the full message has info that
   people-in-the-know know how to interpret. Copy-and-paste it.

2) the smallest (or so) of *working* code that will exhibit the error.
   The snippet in your original post doesn't work. Again, copy-and-paste.

Basically, put enough info in your question that we don't have to read
your mind.

Now I'll put my mind-reading cap on...

- Are you sure that tekst_in() is a method, not a function? The
  indentation suggests function, while the self parameter suggests method.

- Are you positive self.tekst is a Tkinter.Text()? Throw in some
  print statements to check. 'print repr(self)' is a good one.

- tekst_tag[tag] shouldn't be the problem (as suggested by your
  original post), as that would raise a KeyError, not an AttributeError.

  etc.

(I'll bet once you've done what I've suggested, you'll have found the bug...)

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From robin.siebler at palmsource.com  Thu Oct  7 19:40:21 2004
From: robin.siebler at palmsource.com (Robin Siebler)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 16:40:21 -0700
Subject: UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa0 in
	position 10: ordinal not in range(128)
Message-ID: <95c29a5e.0410071540.c27186a@posting.google.com>

I have no idea what is causing this error, or how to fix it.  The full error is:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\ScriptRuntime\PS\Automation\Handlers\SCMTestToolResourceToolsBAT.py",
 line 60, in Run
    PS.Automation.Utility.System.AppendSystemPath(args["PATH"], context)
  File "D:\ScriptRuntime\PS\Automation\Utility\System.py", line 55, in AppendSys
temPath
    AppendPathVariable("PATH", appendtext, context)
  File "D:\ScriptRuntime\PS\Automation\Utility\System.py", line 37, in AppendPat
hVariable
    if(ap == pp):
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa0 in position 10: ordinal
 not in range(128)

The code for the function is:

def AppendPathVariable(variable, appendtext, context):
	"""AppendSystemPath(appendtext, context) -> None
	
		Appends a directory string to the system path. The string can be
	as single path or multiple paths seperated by a semi-colon."""
	
	if(os.environ.has_key(variable)):
		curpath = os.environ[variable]
		
		pathparts = string.split(curpath, ";")
		appendparts = string.split(appendtext, ";")
		
		for ap in appendparts:
			found = 0
			
			for pp in pathparts:
				if(ap == pp):
					found = 1
			
			if(found == 0):
				pathparts.append(ap)
			#end for ap in appendparts
		
		newpath = string.join(pathparts, ";")
		os.environ[variable] = newpath
	else:
		os.environ[variable] = appendtext


From maxm at mxm.dk  Fri Oct 22 07:39:05 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:39:05 +0200
Subject: ClientCookie problem - Difference between 'post' on the local
 network and the internet
Message-ID: <4178F159.7060100@mxm.dk>

I am using ClientCookie for login on to servers and browsing them as 
authenticated users.

I kept getting "HTTP Error 400: Bad Request" errors when submitting my 
forms. So I boiled it down to a simple example.

When I try to use ClientCookie.urlopen() on my private network with ip 
numbers like "http://localhost:8081/test_site/logged_in", it works fine.

If I try to call the same site through the Internet, with a url like: 
http://www.mxm.dk/test_site/logged_in I get the 400 message. But only 
when using "post". 'get' works fine :-s

On the Internet I go out through a gateway, so my external IP is 
different than my internal.

I assume that it causes an url mismatch somewhere. With my local ip 
being set in some header by urlopener, and the server expecting the 
remote ip.

But I have no idea as to how I can avoid it? Any takers?


#########################################

import ClientCookie, urllib

req = ClientCookie.Request
urlopen = ClientCookie.urlopen

def login(came_from, login_form):
     data = {
         'came_from' : came_from,
         '__ac_name' : name,
         '__ac_password' : password,
         '__ac_persistent' : '1',
         'submit' : 'Log ind',
     }
     encoded_data = urllib.urlencode(data)

     request = req(login_form, encoded_data)
     response = urlopen(request)
     content = response.read()
     return content

# This works
came_from = 'http://localhost:8081/test_site/request_tester'
login_form = "http://localhost:8081/test_site/logged_in"
print login(came_from, login_form)

# This results in "HTTP Error 400: Bad Request"
came_from = 'http://www.mxm.dk/test_site/request_tester'
login_form = "http://www.mxm.dk/test_site/logged_in"
print login(came_from, login_form)



############################################
# traceback from the last call to login()

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "E:\zopes\test_site\PRODUCTS\MXMPRO~1\z.py", line 35, in ?
     print login(came_from, login_form)
   File "E:\zopes\test_site\PRODUCTS\MXMPRO~1\z.py", line 22, in login
     response = urlopen(request)
   File 
"G:\uninstalled\Python\ClientCookie-1.0.0a\ClientCookie\_urllib2_support.py", 
line 715, in urlopen
     return _opener.open(url, data)
   File 
"G:\uninstalled\Python\ClientCookie-1.0.0a\ClientCookie\_Opener.py", 
line 125, in open
     response = meth(req, response)
   File 
"G:\uninstalled\Python\ClientCookie-1.0.0a\ClientCookie\_urllib2_support.py", 
line 387, in http_response
     response = self.parent.error(
   File 
"G:\uninstalled\Python\ClientCookie-1.0.0a\ClientCookie\_Opener.py", 
line 189, in error
     return apply(self._call_chain, args)
   File "C:\pytyons\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 306, in _call_chain
     result = func(*args)
   File "C:\pytyons\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 412, in 
http_error_default
     raise HTTPError(req.get_full_url(), code, msg, hdrs, fp)
urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 400: Bad Request
-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From tuure at laurinolli.net  Mon Oct 18 06:57:59 2004
From: tuure at laurinolli.net (Tuure Laurinolli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:57:59 +0300
Subject: UNIX-style sort in Python?
In-Reply-To: <I-6dnfLpv8Gzl-7cRVn-sw@comcast.com>
References: <I-6dnfLpv8Gzl-7cRVn-sw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <cl078b$me6$1@epityr.hut.fi>

Kotlin Sam wrote:
> For a while at least I have to work in Windows rather than UNIX, which 
> is more familiar. I'm trying to do with Python some of the things that 
> I've done for years in shell, in particular, sort. The shell sort is 
> pretty easy to use:

Why don't you just install the UNIX utils on windows? There are native 
ports of most of them at http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 26 12:14:45 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:14:45 -0400
Subject: printing HTML or PDF from Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5514.1098804827.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5514.1098804827.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gsydna0gl_xp6uPcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Donnal Walter wrote:
> os.system("copy some.txt LPT1")
> And as expected, using this function with "some.html" simply prints the 
> html source. 

That's of course because the printer knows how to handle "raw" text
without further help.  As you surmised, anything more complicated
needs either native support (e.g. Postscript can be sent to a
Postscript printer naturally), or an application to be launched
to interpret the file and "draw" it for the printer.

> The same more or less goes for PDF files. We have Acrobat Reader 
> installed, but I can't see how to print a PDF file from Python via AR 
> without opening the file inside the reader and manually printing each 
> one. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

I don't think you'll find a cross-platform approach to handle
all your needs, but there are a few options.  The only one
that I'm familiar with at all would be using ActiveX to
control IE (for HTML files) and Acrobat Reader (for PDF)
through the documented interfaces.  From Python it's not
generally very hard to do this, and I suspect the archives
have examples.  (I haven't done the printing part myself, but
have done lots of IE-through-ActiveX and it's pretty
straightforward.)

-Peter


From firemoth at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 14:00:36 2004
From: firemoth at gmail.com (Timothy Fitz)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:00:36 -0400
Subject: ZeroDivisionError: float division (baby steps)
In-Reply-To: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19CF5@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>
References: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19CF5@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>
Message-ID: <972ec5bd04102711004f569fa5@mail.gmail.com>

> Well this is what I have so far and I'm not getting my total or average.
> Help (stumped) 
>  # using for loop 
> 
> total = 0 
> count = 10 
> number = 0 
> total += number 
> 
> counter = counter + 1 
> for i in range (10): 
>     number = input("Enter a grade:") 
>     if number == 10: 
>         continue 

I think what you intended was for "total += number" to be in the body
of the loop, so that you are adding up the numbers. As the program was
written you're settings total to 0, then setting number to 0, then
setting total to total + number, which is still zero. Then total is
never modified again so in the end you're just taking 0/10.


From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Thu Oct 21 03:05:44 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:05:44 GMT
Subject: Method Underscores?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5249.1098340790.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<mailman.5249.1098340790.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cdJdd.5313$WN5.3726@trndny08>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> Double underscore methods are considered "magic" methods.  The
> underscores are a hint that they may do something different.  Kind of
> like the C++ friend operators.
> 
> In terms of .len() vs .__len__(), it is not supposed to be called
> directly by user code; __len__() is called indirectly by the len()
> builtin (and similarly for the other __<op>__() methods, check common
> spellings in the operator module).

I realize that. My point is why? Why is the default not object.len()? 
The traditional object oriented way to access an object's attribute is 
as object.attribute. For those that are truly attached to the antiquated 
C-style notation, I see no reason why method(object) and object.method() 
cannot exist side-by-side if need be. Using method(object) instead of 
object.method() is a throwback from Python's earlier non-object oriented 
days, and something which should be phased out by p3k. Personally, I'd 
like to see the use of underscores in name-mangling thrown out 
altogether, as they "uglify" certain code and have no practical use in a 
truly OO language, but I'm sure that's a point many will disagree with 
me on.


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 31 04:48:18 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:48:18 GMT
Subject: using dict for data attributes instead of self
References: <mailman.5726.1099209138.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41849cc2.1237570492@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:52:10 -0400, Alexander Kervero <vegeta.z at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hi ,today i was reading diveinto python book,in chapter 5 it has a very
>generic module to get file information,html,mp3s ,etc.
>
>The code of the example is here : 
> http://diveintopython.org/object_oriented_framework/index.html 
>
>One thing that i have some doubs is this part : 
>
> class FileInfo(UserDict):
>    "store file metadata"
>    def __init__(self, filename=None):
>        UserDict.__init__(self)
>        self["name"] = filename
>
>
>So why does he wants a dictionary-like base class if he never uses any
>dictionary method,except for dict.clear which is not necesary.
>
He does use __setitem__ by way of self["name"] = filename, and he overrides __setitem__
in his subclass as a trick to trigger parsing of the file (and using __setitem__ by way of
self[somename]=somevalue some more) and then actually putting "name" and its filename value
in the base class dict. (IMO that __setitem__ subclass override trick is not a good substitute
for defining __init__ in the subclass. I'm surprised to find it.).

BTW, the above was probably written before you could subclass the builtin dict, but now
there's no need to use UserDict in place of dict, AFAIK.

>--
>could be done like this?
>
Not exactly. The subclass is needed for all the dict methods that get used implicitly. Plus
the empty () is bad syntax. And what would UderDict.__init__ do with a self that
wasn't even related?
>  class FileInfo():              
>    "store file metadata"
>    def __init__(self, filename=None):
>        UserDict.__init__(self)
>        self.name = filename
>
You could tack name on the instance as an attribute. It might not be a bad idea if
there was a risk of name clash with data keys.

>And the FileInfo subclasses could have the specific attributes that belongs
>to each file type,for example mp3.
I'm not sure what you want to do, but for a general framework you probably want to
avoid having to use only python-legal attribute names for things. No problem with
title, artist, genre, etc. But, e.g., artist-rep wouldn't fly. It depends on whether names
come automatically from data, or are just programmer choices.

>
>check the link to the full example. 
>--
>
>The only reason is to have a base class with arbitrary attributes ? so it
>can dinamicaly adquire attributes depending of its subclass or something
>like that?
No, but the example is very basic. All it does with the base directory ultimately is
list its key=value content, which is unsorted and doesn't show how alternative
subclasses might want to store and format data differently for listing, etc.,
which you could do by giving the subclasses __str__ methods or standardize on
some other method name, which might just show the name=file_path if the base class
method was not overridden. Etc. E.g., they might all have .html methods to generate
html snippets that could be concatenated for a nice listing. And you might have
a base class attribute for verbosity as a general control.

>
>Is there a clearer way to do it? Is there any benefits of going this way
>that i dont see? 
Think of the base class as common infrastructure. In the example it's just
a dict, but a dict is a very general storage mechanism. What it doesn't instrinsically
have is order or duplicate keys, but you can use it to preserve order and allow
duplicates if you need to. However, a list might be more suitable for some things.
A subclass could use lists as additional ways to store info if needed. And they could
be put in the base dict as values for certain keys, or they could be added as attributes,
keeping the base dict use cleanly separated.
>
>Maybe this is just a dummy example to just show some functionality related
>to the chapter? I am a bit confused.
Yes, I think it is a limited example, though I don't know the larger context,
only having looked at the page you provided the url for.

It's an example of a base class and one subclass that relates to specific (mp3)
file info, and suggests that other subclasses could be made according to the
same general pattern, but sharing methods of the base class.

Notice the way it will automatically integrate another subclass for another file extension.
E.g., why don't you try writing a Subclass for .py files? The name would be
class PYFileInfo(UserDict): ... since the name comes from prefixing uppercased extension
to FileInfo.

Maybe make it just read one line from the .py file and store
self['firstline']=<whatever the first line was>. You can just copy the MP3FileInfo class
and rework the pieces.

Then you may notice that you've duplicated generic things that you could put into base
class methods. And you'll see what the framework and inheritance is getting at.

You can then run the program with ['mp3','py'] as the file extension list, and see what
happens.

Have fun ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 16 13:25:50 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:25:50 -0700
Subject: pickle format question
In-Reply-To: <41715414$1@news.home.net.pl>
References: <41715414$1@news.home.net.pl>
Message-ID: <20041016102239.09E1.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> The documentation says, that the output from pickle.dumps() consists of 
> "printable ASCII" characters. Does it mean the range from ASCII 32 to 
> 127? Or the expected character range is different?
> 
> It would be best, if the character 127 was also excluded :-)
> 
> I need this information for creating the text file containing the 
> pickled Python data (strings, numbers, tuples, lists, nothing else) in 
> the encoded (enciphered) form.

Test it out on your data.  Encoding those objects using:
   pickle.dumps(obj, 0)
I was not able to find any instances of character 127, but that may be
due to my data.

 - Josiah



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 10:03:09 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:03:09 -0700
Subject: Compiled Byte code
In-Reply-To: <1097675350.5192.206374341@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1097675350.5192.206374341@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1097676189.12092.134.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 19:19 +0530, Soumitri wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is there a dependency of version or platform for running a snippet of
> python compiled code? I have a .pyc (possibly created on a *nix box)
> that was created off ver 1.5.2 and returns a "Bad Magic Number in .pyc
> file" error when i run a box with XP and Python 2.3.

IIRC, I believe bytecode (pyc files), while mostly portable across
platforms (I've used the same pyc files on Linux and Windows) aren't
portable across major versions of Python.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From bijar11 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 03:44:14 2004
From: bijar11 at gmail.com (ramin)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 00:44:14 -0700
Subject: Header/Footer Update in MS Word Doc.
Message-ID: <1814d285.0410242344.dfbcc2@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I'm trying to find the correct syntax for updating a Table (2x2) in a
Header (and also in the Footer) of an MS Word document.  I found some
VB code, but it doesn't have the correct Python syntax, yet.  So the
aim is to access all 4 cells in the table.

If anyone has done this already, it will save me some time and it is
much appreciated.


Thanks,
r.


From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Oct 19 04:12:56 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:12:56 GMT
Subject: List Flatten
References: <5c882bb5.0410161531.41713754@posting.google.com>
	<wlLcd.2992$Ug4.819@trndny01>
	<1glunh2.tgeb3kedb2ouN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<5c882bb5.0410180743.62059c68@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c04dd.4209$WN5.28@trndny08>


"bearophile" <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> wrote in message
news:5c882bb5.0410180743.62059c68 at posting.google.com...
> Comparing versions for speed, Raymond Hettinger's version is quite
> slow (even 10 or more times slower than mine for certain kinds of
> lists).
>
> Into the most nested cicle of Alex Martelli's version there is a
> function call to isatomic (and the try-except) that slow down the
> program a lot. Removing them (we expand lists only) we obtan the short
> Peter Otten's version, that is a bit better than mine for very nested
> lists and a bit worse for quite flat lists (that are the most common,
> I think).

That is an apples-to-oranges comparision.  The loss of speed is due to the
additional features of not expanding strings and not expanding iterables into
memory all at one.  Previous discussions about flatten() in this newsgroup or
the tutor list have indicated that is what is usually wanted.  Take out the test
for the atomicity of strings and the speed is much improved.  Also, from
original posting, it seemed that memory friendliness was a key measure for merit
given the huge data sizes and nesting depths.

This discussion may have over-abstracted the problem so that your
apples-to-oranges timings are irrelevant.  Do you have real world use cases for
wanting to flatten nested containers of non-homogenous object types (a mix of
numbers, strings, dictionaries, etc)?  Do you really want to split your strings
into streams of characters and then throw numbers in the mix.  I think not.


Raymond Hettinger




From schliep at fermat.molgen.mpg.de  Mon Oct 18 02:23:42 2004
From: schliep at fermat.molgen.mpg.de (Alexander Schliep)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 08:23:42 +0200
Subject: "Visually following", line by line, the execution of a program
References: <f06d8508.0410151455.d06adbf@posting.google.com>
	<1glsw1g.1r6zq9cu24b5bN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tscis98r1ch.fsf@fermat.molgen.mpg.de>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:
> Andr? Roberge <andre.roberge at ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > I want to "import and execute" a python program (input_test.py below)
> > within another program (execute_test.py below) and "watch it" being
> > executed.
> > By watching it, I mean to display the file input_test.py in a window
> > (GUI) and highlighting the line being executed.  
> 
> The functionality you require is known as 'tracing'.
> 
> See section 9.2, "How it works", in the Python Library Reference, for
> ... 

You can find an implementation in our graph algorithm visualization
software Gato (http://gato.sf.net). It should be trivial to strip out
the necessary code.

Best,
Alexander


--
Alexander Schliep                                    schliep at molgen.mpg.de



From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Tue Oct 19 18:11:54 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:11:54 +0200
Subject: Free hosting for Python open-source projects
References: <mailman.5195.1098219998.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <874qkqjr2t.fsf@chat.blakie.riol>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> writes:

> I'm sure this question has been posted before, but the answer will
> probably be out of date, so here it goes.
>
> I'm looking for a good host for my Python open source projects. The
> requirements are:
>
> -- First of all, stability;
> -- Support for a mailing list (essential for all projects);
> -- Support for Subversion (not essential for small projects);

You can use something decentralized like gnu-arch, you'll not be
dependant of the host.

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Oct  4 13:35:11 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:35:11 -0500
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
In-Reply-To: <691232ce.0410040930.2ed080d9@posting.google.com>
	(HansWL@msn.com's message of "4 Oct 2004 10:30:21 -0700")
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>
	<cjj9sd$hg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
	<mailman.4177.1096637180.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<691232ce.0410030304.2f84c04b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4236.1096861162.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<691232ce.0410040930.2ed080d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m28yamz8s0.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "HansWL" == HansWL  <HansWL at msn.com> writes:


    HansWL> Very likely, but I do not know what.

It looks like you've tried all the obvious stuff.   When you say you
switched between numarray and Numeric, I assume you mean you changed
the numerix setting in your rc file, correct?

It would be interesting to know where this performance hit is coming
from.  What happens if you set backend : TkAgg and interactive : True
in your rc file, and then fire up a standard python shell

>>> from matplotlib.matlab import *
>>> t = arange(0.01, 2.0, 0.01)
>>> s = sin(2*pi*t)
>>> figure(1)
>>> plot(t,s)

In interactive mode, all the plotting commands are acted upon when
they are issued, which should enable you to debug which of these
commands, if any, causes the long delay.

The other thing I wonder about is, is it possible that Norton is doing
some checks on python or some of the extension code that could be
causing the long startup time.  Does it help to turn off the virus
software?

Cheers,
JDh


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 18 16:04:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:04:20 -0400
Subject: Yahoo SMTP
In-Reply-To: <20041018151227.11669.00002008@mb-m15.aol.com>
References: <2tgn1sF1vnm4fU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<20041018151227.11669.00002008@mb-m15.aol.com>
Message-ID: <qs-dnbx84thfvOncRVn-2Q@powergate.ca>

LutherRevisited wrote:
> Thanks for the reply, recently I have tightened up my code to now reach the
> point where my ISP can reject me on port 25...LOL  I am curioius about AUTH, I
> have no idea how this is done and have seen no mention of it in the module
> index under smtplib.  If anyone could point me to where I should look for info
> on that I'd be grateful.

If Googling for "smtp auth" didn't help you, try adding "rfc" and
you should get where you need to be to learn more.

(Unless you are asking "how is this done in Python", in which
case the answer is either "it isn't" (if it isn't), or "use
the source" (if it is).  ;-) )

-Peter


From danperl at rogers.com  Sun Oct 31 13:56:10 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:56:10 -0500
Subject: Plugin system
References: <2uhjppF2a61u6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41839c8b$0$78279$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<2uhla5F2ahviqU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<Rpudnd4nENKWMB7cRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>
	<CJ-dnanxkb5dUR7cRVn-1A@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <r--dnX3u7NvWqBjcRVn-vg@rogers.com>


"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message 
news:CJ-dnanxkb5dUR7cRVn-1A at rogers.com...
>
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message 
> news:Rpudnd4nENKWMB7cRVn-rQ at powergate.ca...
>> Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
>>> Irmen de Jong wrote:
>>>>Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>How would you implement a plugin system (for a web-based application)?
>>>>
>>>>This is so general a question that I cannot think of anything concrete 
>>>>to answer.
>>>>Please ask again, with more detail about what you want/need/have in 
>>>>mind.
>>>
>>> Okay, the question is too open: My focus is on how you would structure
>>> the plugin code (directories, files) and how you would write code to
>>> load these plugins.
>>
>> And _this_ sounds like a combination of something that's more
>> a design issue (the structure) and a trivial implementation
>> detail (trivial in Python, anyway).
>>
>> I'll try anyway, as a first test case:  put all plugins in a
>> standard folder, with nothing else present in that folder.
>> They can be individual modules or packages as you will.
>> The code to load the plugin consists of an __import__...
>> and not much else.
>
> I have done something similar, with a few differences.  I am using a 
> convention that all the plugins are implemented as a class with a specific 
> name ("Handler" in my case), each plugin in its own module (so each 
> Handler class is scoped by its module).  I import all the modules in the 
> directory dedicated to plugins and I do the following checks: the module 
> contains a class Handler, the module is not the one implementing the base 
> class itself (bit of a hack, I admit), and the Handler class is a subclass 
> of the base class (use isinstance).  The checks allow to have also other 
> modules in the

I forgot what I'm doing in my own code.  I looked at it again and found that 
I'm not using isinstance(), instead I am doing a check for 
"baseClass.Handler in hndlrCls.__bases__", which is much better, because it 
doesn't need the creation of an instance.  Here is the actual code (my 
handlers are the equivalent of your plugins):
        # Build a list of the modules that contain a valid Handler class.
        hndlrList = []
        for hndlrFile in glob.glob(
            os.path.join(os.environ['zigzag_install_dir'], 'handlers', 
'*.py')):
            modName = os.path.split(os.path.splitext(hndlrFile)[0])[1]
            if modName == 'baseClass' or \
               modName == 'handlerTemplate':
                continue
            impMod = __import__('handlers.'+modName,
                                globals(),
                                locals(),
                                ['Handler'])
            if not vars(impMod).has_key('Handler'):
                continue
            hndlrCls = vars(impMod)['Handler']
            if not baseClass.Handler in hndlrCls.__bases__:
                continue
            hndlrList.append(modName)

baseClass.Handler is the base class for all my handlers.

> plugins directory that do not actually implement a plugin (for instance, I 
> have a mixin class in that same directory).
>
> Because you have both plugins and sub-plugins you may want to use some 
> checks like mine, so you have both plugins and sub-plugins in the same 
> directory, but you select only the plugin classes.  That's if I understand 
> your requirements correctly.
>
> Dan
>
>> Maybe this feedback will help you refine the question further...
>>
>> -Peter
>
> 




From gherzig at fmed.uba.ar  Fri Oct  1 16:13:41 2004
From: gherzig at fmed.uba.ar (Gerardo Herzig -Departamento de Proyectos Especiales e Internet- Facultad de Medicina)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 17:13:41 -0300
Subject: Day of Year Behaviour
In-Reply-To: <b23aa71.0409301455.2679184e@posting.google.com>
References: <b23aa71.0409301455.2679184e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200410011713.41269.gherzig@fmed.uba.ar>

well, normalDate will help you here. I think normalDate is not in python 
standart ditribution, but it is a pretty nice peace or work.

YEAR = 2004
DAY_OF_YEAR = 40
import normalDate
date = normalDate.ND('%s0101' % YEAR) + DAY_OF_YEAR
print date.formatUS()
-> '02/10/04'
normalDate have more methods (most of them are simple formateed prints)

Gerardo.


> Hi all!
> I have 2 fields:
> YEAR
> DAY_OF_YEAR
>
> and I need to get the complete date out of this, e.g.:
> YEAR=2004
> DAY_OF_YEAR=1
> -> DATE=2004/Jan/1
>
> YEAR=2004
> DAY_OF_YEAR=33
> -> DATE=2004/Feb/2
>
> I'm using the time module without success:
> >>> time.localtime(time.mktime((2004, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0)))
>
> (2003, 11, 30, 0, 0, 0, 6, 334, 0)
>
> Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
> Hector Villafuerte

-- 
Gerardo Herzig
Departamento de Proyectos Especiales e Internet
Facultad de Medicina
U.B.A.


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 00:00:27 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 21:00:27 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410262000.6e34568f@posting.google.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 21:05 -0700, kartik wrote:
> > > The question is how small is small? Less than 2**7? Less than 2**15? 
> > > Less than 2**31? Less than 2**63? And what's the significance of powers 
> > > of two? And what happens if you move from a 32 bit machine to a 64 bit 
> > > one? (or a 1024 bit one in a hundred years time?)
> > 
> > less than 2**31 most of the time & hardly ever greater than 2**63 - no
> > matter if my machine is 32-bit, 64-bit or 1024-bit. the required range
> > depends on the data   u want 2 store in the variable & not on the
> > hardware.
> 
> I'm going to rewrite that last line in English so that perhaps you'll
> catch on to what you are saying:

thank u so much 4 your help, but i know what i'm saying without
assistance from clowns like u. & i dont give a damn about your rules 4
proper communciation, as long as i'm understood.

 
> '''
> the required range depends on the data you want to store in the variable
> and not on the hardware.
> '''
> 
> The pivotal word here is "you".  The data *you* want to store.  One more
> time YOU.  I'm not correcting your mangling of English at this point,
> rather I'm pointing out that it's *you*, not Python, that knows what
> sort of data *you* want to store.  If *you* want to limit your integers
> to some arbitrary amount then *you* are going to have to write code to
> do that.  

> What *you* need for *your* application isn't necessarily what
> anyone else needs for theirs.

the required range, while being different for different variables, is
generally is less than 2**31 - & *that* can be checked by the
language.


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 25 19:02:50 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:02:50 -0400
Subject: create a XML file with DOM
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5456.1098738576.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5456.1098738576.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <g8ydnZjXhN2HG-DcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>

Juliano Freitas wrote:
> i'm usin a DOM module to process a xml file. I'm having problems with
> the appenChild function. Why in my example below i can't append the
> child 'ele' into the swdb.

Does the following exploration help you?  Note the difference between
what is output by root.toprettyxml() and root.firstChild.toprettyxml().
You need to go back to the XML specification and read up a little
bit about the difference between the "root" and the "document element".

c:\>python
Python 2.3.4 (#53, May 25 2004, 21:17:02) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> from xml.dom import *
 >>> xmldoc = getDOMImplementation()
 >>> print xmldoc
<xml.dom.minidom.DOMImplementation instance at 0x00A0E288>
 >>> root = xmldoc.createDocument('', 'swdb', '')
 >>> root.firstChild
<DOM Element: swdb at 0x9e99e0>
 >>> root
<xml.dom.minidom.Document instance at 0x009DFF80>
 >>> ele = root.createElement('visualinfo')
 >>> root
<xml.dom.minidom.Document instance at 0x009DFF80>
 >>> root.appendChild(ele)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "c:\a\python23\lib\xml\dom\minidom.py", line 1552, in appendChild
     raise xml.dom.HierarchyRequestErr(
xml.dom.HierarchyRequestErr: two document elements disallowed
 >>> root.toprettyxml()
'<?xml version="1.0" ?>\n<swdb/>\n'
 >>> root.firstChild.toprettyxml()
'<swdb/>\n'
 >>> root.firstChild.appendChild(ele)
<DOM Element: visualinfo at 0x9ed5a8>
 >>> root.firstChild.toprettyxml()
'<swdb>\n\t<visualinfo/>\n</swdb>\n'
 >>> root.toprettyxml()
'<?xml version="1.0" ?>\n<swdb>\n\t<visualinfo/>\n</swdb>\n'


-Peter


From z at b.com  Fri Oct 22 15:32:44 2004
From: z at b.com (JZ)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:32:44 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1awush1lkmr26.utqa0xkprp0m$.dlg@40tude.net>

Dnia Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:56:44 -0700, Cliff Wells napisa?(a):

> I've seen nothing in the Python world that compares to Smarty templates 

I am using Smarty and I know them very well, but compiled Cheetah Templates 
(http://www.cheetahtemplates.org) with its inheritance approach 
is much powerfull and easier to use than Smarty. Cheetah can cache any 
indyvidual placeholder or portions of template. Smarty caches only the 
entire template output as a unit. Cheetah can be extended using inheritance 
approach. Smarty can use only the containment aproach. Cheetah uses Python 
with its all benefits. Smarty uses PHP with its messing function names, no 
import idea, no namespaces idea, worse unicode library, no docstring, no 
good free IDE/RAD editors etc.

-- 
JZ http://zabiello.com


From remco at tomaatnet.nl  Sat Oct  2 20:46:07 2004
From: remco at tomaatnet.nl (Remco Boerma)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 01:46:07 +0100
Subject: cost of creating threads
In-Reply-To: <h8a7d.4985$nj.3884@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
References: <mailman.4125.1096527938.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cjgdn4$grq$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<h8a7d.4985$nj.3884@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <cjnea7$elt$1@news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Hi,

Bryan Olson wrote:
> Remco Boerma wrote:
>  > In the documentation is a short comprehensive list of what server
>  > options for handling connections are usefull in what situations. .
>  > See chapter 15.1.2 on 
> http://www.cherrypy.org/static/html/tut/node17.html .
>  > While you have a tiny server, i would recommend a thread-pool of about 2
>  > to 3 threads. This at least cuts down the time needed for thread 
> creation.
> 
> What happens if all three threads are blocked, perhaps waiting
> for server_b, when a new request comes in?

I guess it would indeed wait until one of the first 3 threads has closed 
it's connection, or a timeout occurs. But you ought to test it, just to 
make sure. . With a little statistics usage, you would be able to create 
  new threads on the fly if many connections are established in a short 
time, releasing the threads when idle for x seconds.  . This would allow 
you to use more resources when needed, and releasing them when done.

I don't have any knowledge of pocket pc's, but is there any way you can 
use twisted? I've read/heared it's master using only a single thread. .

Cheers!


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Oct 11 19:47:48 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:47:48 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <slrncmm29m.8la.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmm29m.8la.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <10mm6o6si5mdqac@corp.supernews.com>

Dave Benjamin wrote:

>In article <10mlsct69hmtgca at corp.supernews.com>, Jeff Shannon wrote:
>  
>
>Another example is the "after" procedure. If you're familiar with Tcl, you
>may recognize the following idiom:
>
>after(10, lambda: sprite.move(0, 5))
>
>In an (imaginary) event-driven framework, this would wait 10 seconds before
>moving "sprite" down 5 pixels. You might say that this could easily be
>rewritten with a def, and you're right:
>
>def doit():
>    sprite.move(0, 5)
>after(10, doit)
>
>Now, imagine you are setting up an animation this way:
>
>after(10, lambda: sprite.move(0, 5))
>after(15, lambda: sprite2.rotate(30))
>after(20, lambda: sprite.scale(120, 120))
>after(22, lambda: sprite2.move(50, 50))
>after(22, lambda: sound1.play())
>after(23, lambda: sprite.move(0, 0))
>after(26, lambda: sound1.stop())
>  
>

In this case, I'd redefine after to be:

    def after(timeout, func, *args, **kwargs):
        # whatever needs to be done to delay the call, then...
        func(*args, **kwargs)

Then we can do the animation as:

    after(10, sprite.move, 0, 5)
    after(15, sprite2.rotate, 30)
    after(20, sprite.scale, 120, 120)
    # ...

I find this to read slightly better, and the implementation requires one 
less level of indirection.  I'll admit that I haven't explored much in 
the area of function currying and closures, so there *may* be ways in 
which using lambda is preferable to using a generic variable-argument 
closure-returning function, but at least in the cases that spring to my 
mind, lambda's advantage is slim at best.

>As was pointed out already in this thread, decorators break many of the same
>rules. So far, I find anonymous functions much more useful than decorators.
>The only problem is finding a suitable syntax, and I will admit this is
>indeed a problem.
>  
>

And I'm not very happy with the decorator syntax either, to be honest.  
Still, from the examples that cropped up during the Great Decorator 
Syntax Debate (tm), it seems to me that, even though *I* don't 
particularly need them, the potential benefits of decorators are greater 
than the potential benefits of lambda.  That is, I can see things that 
can be done with user-defined descriptors that are difficult to do any 
other way, whereas from what I've seen many/most uses of lambda can be 
re-cast to use normal functions without too much pain.  This provides a 
bit more justification for having special syntax for user-defined 
descriptors (i.e. decorators), though to be honest I'm not terribly 
happy with the chosen syntax.  Of course, this is all theoretical, since 
at this point I've had no call to use either descriptors or lambdas...

>In that case, why stop at functions? Why not make all intermediate values
>have mandatory names? Why not ban this:
>
>c = math.sqrt(a * a + b * b)
>
>And require instead:
>
>a2 = a * a
>b2 = b * b
>tmp = a2 + b2
>c = math.sqrt(tmp)
>  
>

Intermediate anonymous values make sense at a certain level of 
granularity but not at all levels.  Practicality beats purity. 

On the other hand, I'd never write your first example -- I'd be 
explicity about the grouping with extra parens.

   c = math.sqrt( (a*a) + (b*b) )

It's not syntactically necessary, because it's following standard 
operator precedence, but it scans much more quickly for me. 

Indeed, maybe that's what this is all about.  To my mind, when I see a 
lambda, I already have to stop scanning, push a level on my mental 
stack, figure out what the heck is going on with the lambda and what 
it's going to return, and then pop back to the line in progress.  In 
contrast, when I'm scanning something using a (descriptively) named 
function, the name should tell me enough of the purpose of the function 
that I don't need to pause to figure it out.  Thus, it's much quicker 
for me to scan a reference to a named function than to scan a lambda 
definition.


>>I understand that lambdas are very popular in other programming 
>>languages (such as Lisp).  But Python is not those languages, and which 
>>constructs are useful may well be different.  I don't know enough Lisp 
>>to judge how helpful lambdas are there; I do know enough Python to 
>>believe that I should be able to see the advantages if they were as 
>>wonderful as their proponents say.
>>    
>>
>
>Lisp is not the only language that benefits from lambdas. Other languages
>include JavaScript/ActionScript, C# (anonymous delegates), Java (anonymous
>inner classes -- a poor substitute), Ruby, Tcl, Perl, and OCaml. They are
>used in GUI callbacks, iteration patterns, flow control, data processing,
>and in general any function or procedure that needs parts of its logic to be
>parameterized. Only one of the aforementioned languages, OCaml, is
>considered to be a functional language like Lisp or Scheme.
>  
>

ISTM that many of these uses can be accomplished by using named 
functions with variable arguments.   I'll admit that I'm no language 
expert, and TBH haven't used any of those languages.  But my impression 
is that the use of (named) function references, dynamic typing, and 
convenient variable argument syntax can acheive most of the benefits 
that are touted for lambdas. 

>(Yet, somehow, decorators slipped through, even though nobody agreeed on a
>syntax for that either. I don't have a rational explanation for that...)
>  
>

Nor do I .....  *sigh*

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jerf at jerf.org  Sat Oct 30 13:29:24 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:29:24 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5689.1099092886.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nl07o0lr3dvunoq2j0avuvmftnc837fvoc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.30.18.29.36.74744@jerf.org>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:12:36 +0000, Andrea Griffini wrote:
> You can't count using base 1 with positional systems.

Well, you can, sort of. You end up with the integers, obviously, and the
result has a rather striking resemblance to the modern foundations of
number theory, in which there is only one number, 0, and the "increment"
function which returns a number one larger. If you want three, it is
expressed increment(increment(increment(0))), which is rather similar to
the base-1 number "111". 

Zero in this system would probably be a null string, making increment this:

def increment(number):
	return "1" + number

(And abracadabra, I'm back on topic for the newsgroup, albeit tenuously :-) )

Some people say base 2 is the most natural base in the universe. But you
can certainly make a claim for base 1, based on its correspondence to
number theory, from which we build the rest of math. (Most people never
dig this deep; it was one of my favorite classes in Comp. Sci., though,
and we're probably the only people other than mathematicians to offer the
course.)


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 12:38:16 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:38:16 -0600
Subject: Python-Matlab extensions: Comparisons?
References: <uhu1m0t4euvekl61ilengepdhuettvmutr@4ax.com>
	<yfsfz4qai0t.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <ck3rdo$d7v$2@sea.gmane.org>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:

> Johannes Eble <skywalkerpackage at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
>> Hello Python community,
>>
>> I have looked for a Python extension to bring Python nearer to Matlab.
> 
> Scipy/ipython has already been suggested and I agree with that (I'd add emacs
> to the mix); if you want to migrate you might also be interested in some
> stuff I've written (will try to publish it later today; I'll be offline for a
> month from end of this week, so I'd like to "flush" this stuff before):

[...]

Alex, I'm not terribly qualified to judge most of this, as my matlab experience
is exactly zero.  But I'd suggest you pass some of this stuff over for review
at the scipy-dev list, at least the parts you consider of more general
interest.  It would be great if scipy could really become the canonical
repository for this kind of commonly useful functionality.

Cheers,

f



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 15:38:02 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 12:38:02 -0700
Subject: Open Source License Question
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<2u9hklF24n4b1U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<T82dnedQ8YiFBuLcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>
	<z6Nfd.755$K7.388@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<_-adnfiRi4tmPOLcRVn-1A@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410271138.4c0b9ca1@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<_-adnfiRi4tmPOLcRVn-1A at powergate.ca>...
> Neil Hodgson wrote:
> > I would
> > love to be able to just renounce copyright on my work but it no longer
> > appears possible.
> 
> I haven't been trying to keep up to date on this issue, but these
> guys seem to feel there is something along those lines that can be done: 
> http://creativecommons.org/  (Specifically, 
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ )
> 
> By how far does that miss your mark?
> 

Not bad. Their most permissive 'by attribution', which is just a step
beond public domain is better for me I think.

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/

Thanks. 

Fuzzy

> -Peter


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 11 16:58:58 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:58:58 +0100
Subject: ANN: Snakelets 1.35 (simple-to-use web app server with dynamic
 pages)
In-Reply-To: <416ae4b9$0$78749$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <416ae4b9$0$78749$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <buCad.33195$Z14.12881@news.indigo.ie>

[Irmen de Jong]
> I'm happy to say that Snakelets 1.35 is available.
> 
> Snakelets is a very simple-to-use Python web application server.
> This project provides a built-in threaded web server (so you don't
> need to set up Apache or another web server), Ypages (HTML+Python
> language, similar to Java's JSPs) and Snakelets: code-centric page
> request handlers (similar to Java's Servlets).
> Snakelets is fully unicode compatible and it's possible to run it
> from a CD (read-only mode).
> 
> It's released under the open-source MIT Software license.
> 
> You can download from http://snakelets.sourceforge.net
> (go to the SF project site, and then the file section).

Irmen,

Thanks for your all your great work on Snakelets.

Have you considered maybe porting Snakelets to WSGI? WSGI is a new 
server/gateway standard for portability of python web frameworks, and is 
specified in PEP 333.

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0333.html

WSGI specifies a HTTP API which is implementable on most conceivable web 
platforms. Code built on this API is fully portable to

1. All WSGI compliant "servers", i.e. pure python WSGI servers.
2. ALL WSGI "gateways", i.e. other non-python servers for which a python 
WSGI layer has been developed.

WSGI is an excellent piece of work, by a fine designer, Phillip J. Eby, 
of PEAK and PyProtocols fame.

Porting to WSGI would bring the following benefits

1. The ability to run Snakelets under any WSGI server/gateway, e.g. 
mod_python, CGI, BaseHTTPServer, etc, etc. (No WSGI adapters seem to 
exist for Twisted, Medusa or Zope though: the asynch API is still under 
discussion on the web-sig).

2. The ability to factor out the need (and maintenance burden, security 
exposure, etc) for a custom standalone server, i.e. instead use a 
standard server, e.g. BaseHTTPWSGIServer, and get automatic threading or 
forking support, etc.

3. Possibly run Snakelets on Java/Jython! The latter is only possible if 
Snakelets is 2.1 compliant, i.e. does not use python 2.2 or 2.3 features.

4. Immediately be able run Snakelets on IronPython when it becomes 
available, and a when (very simple!) WSGI gateway layer has been written 
for whatever web servers can run .Net web applications. This support 
would come for free: ideally, no modification to Snakelets would be needed.

You could currently run Snakelets on java with modjy, an open-source 
WSGI compliant gateway I've written on top of J2EE servlets. Docs, 
details and downloads here

http://www.xhaus.com/modjy

I have high hopes for WSGI to help simplify the confusing landscape of 
server platforms upon which python web frameworks can and cannot run. 
IMHO, portability of python web application frameworks to all possible 
web servers, pure python or not, should be an inherent out-of-the-box 
capability, not an exercise in code engineering.

kind regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From shalabh at cafepy.com  Fri Oct 15 12:05:43 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:05:43 -0700
Subject: Why does super take a class name as the argument?
In-Reply-To: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>
References: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>
Message-ID: <ckosci$pdf$1@sea.gmane.org>

Chris Green wrote:
. . .

> The reason I'm asking about this is I find myself cursing super every
> time I want to change the name of the class I'm working on when one of
> the reason's that super was implemented (I'm guessing) was to insulate
> derived classes from the name changes of where they inherited from.

Derived classes *are* insulated from name changes of the base classes. 
The class in super has to be the same as the class in which the super 
call is written (i.e. the one 'around' the super call), not a base 
class. So if you change a class name, you only change the super calls 
that exist within that class.

Of course, it could be easier with more support from the interpreter 
(and it may be in a future version). See also autosuper in Guido's essay [1]

Shalabh

[1] http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html



From claird at lairds.us  Fri Oct  1 17:08:22 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:08:22 GMT
Subject: Test-driven GUI development (was: Calling (C)Python code from Java:
	Is it JPype?)
References: <cjeem1$5h9$1@newshispeed.ch> <cjg70t$gun$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<du7wtybod4b.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi> <cjjksb$soo$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <ots032-lej.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <cjjksb$soo$1 at newshispeed.ch>, F. GEIGER <f.geiger at vol.at> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>in this regard. It is because pychecker does not catch all errors *I* make
>in *my* GUI programs (YMMV of course). Errors, a compiler typically is able
>to catch. It gets really annoying if I aways have to do all the steps again
>and again getting to the point the *GUI* part of my app just to see that I
>again had missed something. I am willing to give up on flexibilty in the
>*GUI* part of my app to receive type safety and in consequence compile time
>error checking.
>
>If anyone could show me a way how I can develop the *GUI* part of may apps
>in a test driven way, i.e. w/o having to enter data manually all over again,
>then I could forget about all this.
			.
			.
			.
>P.S.: Ville, perhaps you answered to my post because I'd like it to have the
>other way round: GUI stuff a compiled lang (but not C++ if possible) and the
>gist, which many times is considered time critical by other people, in
>Python. But, as I said: I never had performance problems with Python. Python
>speeds up dev'ing apps and *app-specific* things because it lets me think
>mostly in the problem domain and not in the lang domain. Ever handled
>strings, lists etc. in C++ or Java? Forget it! Well, ok, I have to admit:
>I'm a Java newbie, yet, and thus I am not allowed yet to rant, actually. But
>you got the point: So many things are just easy to do in Python and I don't
>want to give up on *that*. OTOH: GUI stuff mostly is a SMOP, nothing special
>(possiblities in wx are great, though. I can do things here, I couldn't
>dream of doing it in, say, VB). Here a compiler really could make things
>easier - for *me* and *my* apps. Again, YMMV.
			.
			.
			.
These are good and important points, ones that deserve a more
complete answer than I can express now.  Until such experts as
Peter and Alex chime in, though, please do keep in mind that,
for at least some of us, test-driven GUI development in Python 
is not only possible, but *superior*, to the practices you
describe with, for example, Java.  You apparently have habits
that work well for you with Java; that's great.  I think that
you'll eventually be even happier with a more Pythonic approach.
I hope some of us can make it clear in follow-ups.


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 15:47:46 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 19:47:46 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<vKKdnUxHIOPNzODcRVn-2Q@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <417d5862$0$45532$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-25, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>>>Whatever gave you the idea you are obligated to provide support?!
>> 
>> Experience.
>> 
>> Customers seem to have no problem with not getting source code,
>> but once you _do_ give them source code then you have to
>> support it.  Ignoring customers when they ask questions about
>> the source code has always proven in past experience to be "not
>> an option."
>
> Evil, nasty customers, we hates them!  They asks us questions
> and pays us money for our precioussssss time.

Except they don't.  (Pay that is.)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ... this must be what
                                  at               it's like to be a COLLEGE
                               visi.com            GRADUATE!!


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Mon Oct 11 13:06:56 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:06:56 +0100
Subject: how do i keep python from printing a newline when it exits the
 program?
References: <mailman.4706.1097507954.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfsr7o52ngv.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

"xegfault" <sstaats at questia.com> writes:

> Here is a simple script:
> #!/usr/bin/python
>
> print "No newline, please.",
> # End of script
>
> When the program runs, python is still printing a newline when the
> program exits.  How does one keep python from doing so?

class softspaceLess(object):
    """
    >>> import sys
    >>> print "a", "b", " ", "d"
    a b   d
    >>> print >>softspaceLess(sys.stdout), "a", "b", " ", "d"
    ab d
    """
    def __init__(self, file=sys.stdout):
        self.__dict__['_file'] = file
        file.softspace = False
    def __getattr__(self,a):
        if a == 'softspace': return False
        return getattr(self._file,a)
    def __setattr__(self,a,v):
        if a=='softspace': return
        setattr(self._file,a,v)
'as


From barry at python.org  Thu Oct 21 17:52:22 2004
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:52:22 -0400
Subject: [Python-mode] Recent python-mode updates
In-Reply-To: <16760.11220.529395.363981@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <16760.11220.529395.363981@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <1098395542.8515.63.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 17:36, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> For those who don't monitor python-mode checkins (does anyone? I doubt it),

You're probably right, since AFAICT, python-mode checkin messages don't
actually go anywhere.  Should I hook it up to syncmail and direct the
checkin messages to python-mode at python.org (I really don't want to
create Yet Another Mailing List for such expected low traffic).

> * TAB key cycling - When you type a newline or hit the TAB key the cursor
>   moves to the mode-specific idea of the correct tab stop.  Hit TAB again
>   and it will back out a stop.  You can keep hitting TAB until the cursor is
>   in column 1, at which point hitting TAB one more time will reindent to the
>   "correct" tab stop.

Neat.

> * Completion using Pymacs

Very cool.  I'm definitely going to have to play with Pymacs one of
these days.

> If you have any questions, please direct them to python-mode at python.org.  If
> you find bugs or have enhancements, please submit a ticket on the
> python-mode project at SourceForge.

We should plan on a few things with python-mode, related to the Python
2.4 release.  We need to merge a stable copy back into Python's Misc
directory.  Right now its got 4.41 while the current version in the
python-mode project is 4.63.  We should also let upstream providers (the
FSF and XEmacs folks) know when we've got a stable release for them to
sync to.  Any thoughts on that?

-Barry

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From hohn at hooknose.lbl.gov  Fri Oct  1 18:16:32 2004
From: hohn at hooknose.lbl.gov (Michael Hohn)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:16:32 GMT
Subject: inconsistent value from __builtins__
Message-ID: <yyo4qlem6db.fsf@hooknose.lbl.gov>

Hi,
using the file builtin_check.py  with content

# Module builtin_check 
# Inconstency in the binding of __builtins__

def get_binding(name):
    return locals()[name]

def get_global_binding(name):
    return globals()[name]

and running 

import builtin_check
print type(builtin_check.get_global_binding('__builtins__'))
print type(__builtins__)

in the toplevel, I get the following results:

Python 2.2.3 (#2, Jun 16 2004, 21:14:24) 
[GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import builtin_check
>>> print type(builtin_check.get_global_binding('__builtins__'))
<type 'dict'>
>>> print type(__builtins__)
<type 'module'>


Python 2.3.3 (#1, May 10 2004, 11:29:59) 
[GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import builtin_check
>>> print type(builtin_check.get_global_binding('__builtins__'))
<type 'dict'>
>>> print type(__builtins__)
<type 'module'>

Is this difference in return value intentional?


Thanks, 
    Michael



From joewong at mango.cc  Fri Oct 15 01:14:25 2004
From: joewong at mango.cc (Joe Wong)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:14:25 +0800
Subject: Not enough space error?
References: <005c01c4b25b$f1124150$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
	<1097816603.20309.20.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <01b801c4b275$d70f2bf0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>

Hi Cliff, No it is not sys.stdin, The script write something to a log file every now and then. basically, it does:

f=open("mylog", "ab")
f.write(something)
f.close()


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cliff Wells 
  To: Joe Wong 
  Cc: python-list at python.org 
  Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 1:03 PM
  Subject: Re: Not enough space error?


  On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 10:09 +0800, Joe Wong wrote:
  > Hi,
  >  
  >  I have a script that runs on Windows. Last night, it throw an except
  > saying:
  >  
  > IOError Errno 12 not enough space
  >  
  > This happens on the "open()" call. I check and there is plenty of
  > diskspace available on my Windows 2000 box.
  >  
  > What could be the cause of this error here?

  Is your file sys.stdin?  If so, then perhaps this is relevant:

  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2004-February/010125.html

  Regards,
  Cliff

  -- 
  Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



  ---
  Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
  Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
  Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 2004/10/8
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From ofatemi at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 23:07:25 2004
From: ofatemi at yahoo.com (Omid Fatemi)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 20:07:25 -0700
Subject: fcntl and FCNTL
Message-ID: <74b5ee0a.0410291907.3d73764f@posting.google.com>

I followed discussion in the group about this problem:

ImportError: No module named fcntl

I found out there are two modules:
FCNTL
fcntl
the first one is obsolete and shouldn't be used.
But the second one is usable.

Unfortunately, there is no fcntl in my python installation (Python
2.3.3, I got it from python site for Windows). There is FCNTL.py which
is just a warning message and some imports.

Am I missing some files here. How could I have access to fcntl module.

Any help?

Thank you in advance.
Regards;


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Mon Oct 18 15:27:47 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:27:47 -0400
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
References: <mailman.5015.1097859379.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckp0vj$r1g$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1glsuhc.10eukauy09rs8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ckuad9$nba$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <qnkhdorg72k.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> writes:

>> However, there are no problems whatsoever with the issue you remark on,
>> as long as the method never alters the 'items' object.  As long as only
>> nonmutating methods get called on 'items', i.e., 'items' is practically
>> treated as "read-only", Donnal Walter's approach is just fine.  The
>> issue you remark on does deserve to be made, but it's also important to
>> understand when it does matter and when it doesn't.
>
> You are right of course, but the high frequency of postings regarding
> "strange default value behaviour" made me want to make this point before
> Donnal steps into that pitfall. And while the example at hand didn't alter
> the contents of items, I'd nevertheless settled for items=None and used
> something like this:
>
> def foo(items=None):
>     if not items is None:

Or the more readable (IMO):

def foo(items=None):
    if items is not None:
       ...

They're equivalent, but a reader could see 'not items is None' as
'(not items) is None)' [although it's not].

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 26 11:57:29 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:57:29 -0400
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 25)
In-Reply-To: <aStfd.40083$Z14.14531@news.indigo.ie>
References: <mailman.5509.1098800693.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
	<aStfd.40083$Z14.14531@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <eK-dnczoRaJ07uPcRVn-rw@powergate.ca>

Alan Kennedy wrote:
> [Cameron Laird]
>  >     Andreas Kostyrka summarizes the design judgment behind
>  >     Python's locking.
>  > 
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list%40python.org 
> 
> 
> I've got to say that I found Luis P Caamano's contribution to that 
> thread far more enlightening. It gives the best historical perspective 
> on the GIL that I've ever read.
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-October/245412.html

"Historical"?  You mean the part that begins with his statement
'''I speculate that the GIL "problem" might have grown to its current
state because CPython grew in parallel with thread programming. '''

Speculation is always an interesting way to study history. <wink>

-Peter


From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Oct 12 13:38:38 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:38:38 GMT
Subject: Alternatives for pickle?
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410120725.441db881@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041012173838.1379.1871405172.divmod.quotient.46@ohm>

On 12 Oct 2004 08:25:10 -0700, fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) wrote:
>Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote in message news:<slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon at rcpc42.vub.ac.be>...
> > I'm writing a little game, a gridler application, where you
> > can turn pixmaps into puzzle's and try to solve them. I already
> > have the data structure for such a puzzle worked out, one of
> > the problems is writing it to a file and reading it back in.
> > 
> > I first went to the pickle module but there I read this.
> > 
> > | Warning: The pickle module is not intended to be secure against
> > | erroneous or maliciously constructed data. Never unpickle data
> > | received from an untrusted or unauthenticated source.
> > 
> 
> Hmmm..... I wonder how easy it is to craft a malicious pickle that
> will automatically run code objects just because they are unpickled.
> My guess is that it's quite difficult - I've never heard of it *ever*
> being done. Someone would have to be *very* malicious to work out how
> to do it on the off chance of planting a back door into someone's
> machine through a program like yours. No offence intended, but if they
> were going to go to all that effort I expect they might aim for
> something with a wider audience.

  It's absolutely positively trivial.  It took me about 30 seconds to come up with this pickle, about a year ago:

  'c__builtin__\neval\np0\n(S"__import__(\'os\').system(\'touch blah\')"\np1\ntp2\nRp3\n.'

  Anyone with moderate knowledge of pickle is capable of constructing something similar.

  Jp


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 17:55:28 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:55:28 -0400
Subject: binary numbers
Message-ID: <cjv58g$q5i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

How can I specify that a number be represented in binary format when 
passing it to a function? I'm working with the Windows registry and 
REG_BINARY values expect numbers in binary form...

This would be nice:

import binary
x = binary(5)

Any tips???

Thanks,
Brad


From jrrywise at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  3 14:19:16 2004
From: jrrywise at yahoo.com (jerry wise)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:19:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: project
Message-ID: <20041003181916.41184.qmail@web61302.mail.yahoo.com>

I have a project I am working on, and I was wondering if any of you would be willing to help. I am willing to pay obviously. I have a lot of audio files that I want to be able to put together end to end. I have about 100, and I want to able to pick about 10 at random and have the computer come up with every combination of those ten possible, and have them saved on my computer so I can play them back. E-mail me back if you think you can help. Thanks a lot. 
 
jrrywise at yahoo.com
 

		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
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From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Fri Oct 15 14:55:39 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:55:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>
	<416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<mailman.4998.1097833203.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekjz3lly.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <ckp6fb$gvi$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> pisze:

> This Qt licensing thing is way too messy, I'm not surprised that so
> many developers are doing their best to avoid it...

No, it isn't. It's GNU GPL. What do you consider unclear?

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From psuspam at grinchcentral.com  Mon Oct  4 11:59:49 2004
From: psuspam at grinchcentral.com (Erik Rose)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:59:49 -0400
Subject: ActivePython/IIS Request Concurrency
Message-ID: <41617375.1060203@grinchcentral.com>

It seems that the combination of ActivePython, ASP, and IIS is incapable 
of processing multiple HTTP requests at a time. Am I insane? Is this, 
perhaps, a configuration issue on my end?

Here's the test code that brought me to this conclusion:

<%@ Language = Python %>
<%
def slow():
     for i in range(100000):
         j = i * i;
     return 'Wow, that took forever!!!';

Response.write(slow());
%>

I dumped the above into a file called slow.asp, yielding a page that 
takes about 7 seconds to load. When I load slow.asp in two browser 
windows approximately simultaneously, one of them loads 7 seconds after 
the other. If they were running concurrently, I would expect them to 
both load almost simultaneously, after about 14 seconds. I got the same 
results using a time.sleep(10) call instead of the above CPU-heavy loop. 
Incidentally, a similar test with ActivePerl yields the same results.

If this limitation is real, it seems to me that this setup is entirely 
unsuitable for production work, since any page that makes a long-running 
DB query brings all other request processing to a halt. This would 
surprise me, though, given the high profile of ActiveState's products in 
the IIS community. Can anybody give me some good news here? I'm striving 
valiantly to free my project from the clutches of VBScript but have been 
thus far foiled. :-)

Hopefully,
Erik Rose
Programmer/Analyst
Pennsylvania State University


From xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net  Tue Oct 26 09:40:05 2004
From: xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 13:40:05 GMT
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
Message-ID: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>


First off, sorry for this message-in-a-bottle-like post... I haven't been 
able to phrase my questions well enough to get a meaningful answer from 
Google in my research. OTOH, it is standard flattery (but true) that this 
group has a bunch of the nicest and most knowledgeable Usenet people 
around, and I know for a fact that there are some pretty good spam-
related tools written in Python, so I thought I might get away with it 
:-)

Yes, it's about spam.

I have a (very old, POP3) email address that's flooded with spam (about 
500 msgs per 24 hrs, no thanks to the ISP...) but that I still need to 
use for various reasons. Of course it's unmanageable without some sort of 
bayesian spam filter.

When I work from home or office or my laptop, tools like Thunderbird or 
Pegasus+K9 do the job adequately. But I also frequently need to access it 
"on the road" with whatever comes in handy (Webmail etc.), and that 
becomes a problem if I've been away for even a short period.

One possible solution I've been mulling over, and looking for, would be 
some sort of selective, on-line filter/downloader. I have an always-on, 
Linux box at home on a decent DSL line ; on this I could have a daemon to 
frequently poll that POP3 address, pulling only the headers (or maybe the 
first body KB or so) and running those through a bayesian filter. If a 
message comes out "clean" it is left on the server (so I can access it 
from wherever I am), if it doesn't it is downloaded to a local mbox and 
removed from the server (like getmail.py does) so I can still dig out the 
occasional false positive when I'm home...

Is there a ready-made tool that fills this need ? If it's in Python so 
much the better, but actually I'll run anything else within my means 
(even perl :-) if it works without having to tinker the code... Also, 
it's possible that my single-minded approach is misled and there's a 
better way to achieve that goal, so I'm ready to change my mind too :)

TIA - again, sorry for the noise,
fp

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From flab at large.net  Sun Oct 31 14:03:03 2004
From: flab at large.net (flab ba)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:03:03 -0700
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...
	python on ?)
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
	<sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<a5415304.0410310336.485cfc81@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.31.19.03.03.622671@large.net>

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:36:29 -0800, Ron Stephens wrote:

> ""I think a search for "enterprise application framework Python"
> would probably turn up at least one of them.""
> 
> Hmm, indeed, that search practically screamed Peak, the Python
> Enterprise Application Kit, which looks fascinating at
> http://peak.telecommunity.com/ . Does anyone have any experience with
> PEAK or knowledge about it?
> 
> Ron Stephens

Umm, Peak and Rails don't even look remotely similar in what they try to
accomplish.

-Flab


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct  2 22:24:01 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 22:24:01 -0400
Subject: Using python to convert PDF document to MSWord documents
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4018.1096389067.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <20040928161317.88987.qmail@web8401.mail.in.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4018.1096389067.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5tJ7d.288386$4o.127324@fed1read01>

Timothy Grant wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: JEET <hjeet_in at yahoo.com>
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:13:17 +0100 (BST)
> Subject: Using python to convert PDF document to MSWord documents
> To: python-list at python.org
> 
> 
>  
>  
> Hello All, 
>   
> Can anyone please suggest me if  there any python modules available to
> convert PDF document to MSWord documents. If not then can you please
> suggest how can i acheive this.
>   
> Many thanks in advance, 
>   
One of the problems with such a module would be that PDF is primarily a 
display format, and so the structure of the file doesn't necessarily 
conform with the structure of the document.

regards
  Steve


From bkc at Murkworks.com  Wed Oct  6 18:15:16 2004
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:15:16 -0400
Subject: XSL transform with Python
References: <33a013af.0410060646.3a821dc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck1qpu$nbi$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Vegard Bakke" <vegard at mail.com> wrote in message
news:33a013af.0410060646.3a821dc7 at posting.google.com...
> Hi!
>
> All I want to do is transforming an XML into another XML using an XSLT
> stylesheet.
>
> >From what I have found on the web/usenet there are several xml/xsl
> libraries/wrapper, all in various stages of alpha/beta/stalled
> releases. (Sablotron, Sab-pyth, PySablot, libxml2, libxslt are some of
> those I found.)
>
> The script will be running in a production environment and must
> therefore be stable above all. Alphas and Betas are not that welcome.
>
> Can anyone give me a pointer to what module to use, what is stable,
> and what is and be stay standard for Python?
>


I use libxml2 and libxslt in production.

Simple code like this:

    stylesheetArgs = {}    # optional transform args
    styleDoc = libxml2.parseDoc(docText)  # <xml ...xsl:stylesheet >
    style = libxslt.parseStylesheetDoc(styleDoc)

    doc = libxml2.parseDoc(srcXML)    # <xml input file>
    result = style.applyStylesheet(doc,stylesheetArgs)
    res = style.saveResultToString(result)
    style.freeStylesheet()
    doc.freeDoc()
    result.freeDoc()
    return res

It's plenty fast, and you can re-use compiled stylesheets (that's not
demonstrated above)

-- 
Novell DeveloperNet Sysop #5






From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Thu Oct  7 06:33:56 2004
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:33:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2sgi8iF1l9okoU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.4419.1097062311.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ck362k$ja3$1@news.island.liu.se>

Andreas Kostyrka <andreas at kostyrka.org> wrote:

> Well, "GarbageCollection" isn't really an option for a portable ANSI C
> program, isn't it?

Depends on what you mean.  It is perfectly possible to write a
garbage collection system in portable ANSI C.  It will of course
only handle memory that has been properly registered with the
garbage collector, not any plain memory just received from
malloc().  For an example of such a system, look at the Lisp
interpreter in GNU Emacs.  Or why not the C-Python interpreter,
which features garbage collection since version 2.0?


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"The one who says it cannot be done should    ! bellman @ lysator.liu.se
 never interrupt the one who is doing it."    ! Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!


From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Thu Oct 28 08:45:25 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:45:25 -0400
Subject: logging question
Message-ID: <clqpl5$joo$1@sea.gmane.org>

Why isn't my formatter used when I use DatagramHandler?

Here's the server:
#!/usr/bin/env python

import socket
import logging
import pickle

sock = socket.socket (socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
sock.bind (("", 8881))

try:
    while (True):
        data, address = sock.recvfrom (8192)
        rec = logging.makeLogRecord (pickle.loads(data[4:]))
        print rec.msg, rec.args
        
finally:
    sock.close()

Here's the client:

import logging
import logging.handlers
import sys
import os

logger = logging.getLogger()
hdlr = logging.handlers.DatagramHandler ('rpppc1.md.hns.com', 8881)
formatter = logging.Formatter('%(asctime)s %(levelname)s %(message)s')
hdlr.setFormatter(formatter)
logger.addHandler(hdlr) 
logger.setLevel(logging.INFO)

import time

while (True):
    logger.info (str (sys.argv)+":"+str(os.getpid())+":"+"hi")
    time.sleep (30)

Here's what gets printed:
['./logclient.py']:23913:hi ()

What happened to the formatter?



From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct  8 13:51:08 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:51:08 GMT
Subject: End of file
In-Reply-To: <YgA9d.9451$M05.7622@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrncmcf1i.dku.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glc06l.1s6wzdn11sa54yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<YgA9d.9451$M05.7622@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <gsA9d.9461$M05.4936@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Me:
> I've used
> 
> class sentinel:
>   pass

Also used in the standard lib, in

cookielib.py:

class Absent: pass
   ...
         if path is not Absent and path != "":
             path_specified = True
             path = escape_path(path)
         else:
   ...


Only one that I could find.  The 'object()' approach
is used in gettext.py a few times like

         missing = object()
         tmsg = self._catalog.get(message, missing)
         if tmsg is missing:
             if self._fallback:
                 return self._fallback.lgettext(message)

and once in pickle.py as

      self.mark = object()

Pre-object (09-Nov-01) it used

      self.mark = ['spam']


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 00:54:57 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:54:57 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <Ovp8d.3155$M05.74@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Ovp8d.3155$M05.74@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <41622921.3030409@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
> As another point of protocol, when you reply to a long
> post do not quote the entire post only to add a few lines
> at the end.  It maybe the easiest way for you to reply
> but it's annoying to those who have to read it.  Why?
> Suppose you actually did reply to Josiah's question in
> #28.  We as readers need to be careful in our scan of
> the reply to see if any of your response is hidden somewhere
> in the depths.  We don't know that you only added one
> line to the end of the email.
>
> As a consideration to others you can do something like I
> did above, to indicate that many lines were deleted, or
> use some other way to trim the amount of quoted text.
>
>                 Andrew
>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com

I expect you mean like the above snip work of mine.  I am not new to 
usenet but I had the perhaps lazy occurance of forgetting to snip the 
other post.  Thanks for the tip anyhow.


From jeffrey at fro.man  Fri Oct  8 21:02:45 2004
From: jeffrey at fro.man (Jeffrey Froman)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 18:02:45 -0700
Subject: module name not recognized
References: <ck6s3u$bp4$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <10mee5lnldh138c@corp.supernews.com>

Darren Dale wrote:

> Could I get suggestions as to why a module would be installed but not
> registered?

If the permissions are incorrect on the module files, then some users may be
unable to import the modules.

Jeffrey


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 03:32:39 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:32:39 +0200
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<EPmdnagKPrUPhtPcRVn-iQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.3529.1095642828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gkgxts.1fq0rwq10mycqiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41513aac$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gkih9r.pfgqukvpt1rcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<37tjl09an200u6tejkrtklc8ib86uk7rm1@4ax.com>
	<7E_6d.33917$35.1643590@news4.tin.it>
	<cji8qo$qro$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.4166.1096612732.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gkyzga.1jeg99c1rutxarN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
   ...
> pedant I had real trouble with. It reads "Some village in Texas is 
> missing their idiot", and the reason for my perplexity was, while I feel

Aha, I have my pet anti-peeve on that one issue, _singular "their"_ (and
"they", but we can argue that one once the easier possessive case is
more accepted;-).  I may have read and appreciated too much 18th-century
and earlier English...;-) -- anyway,
<http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html> expresses my own
feelings in the matter pretty well (lots of useful links from that page,
too).

> this week, I'm much more prepared to let people break the rules when I
> think that they realize they *are* breaking the rules. I have less 
> patience with those who either don't know (sad) or don't care 
> (inexcusable) about the rules.

And what about those of us who are convinced that (some of) the rules
are _wrong_ -- that '''18th-century grammarians started making arbitrary
judgements as to what is "good English" and "bad English", based on a
kind of pseudo-"logic" deduced from the Latin language, that has nothing
whatever to do with English''', and that such _bloopers_ as the ban
against "singular their" (and other even more blatant cases, such as the
ban against "splitting ifinitives" and against ending a sentence with a
preposition...) should be fought against...?


> > called (with an expensive Latin term) "constructio ad sensum", i.e. you
> > conjugate the verb in accordance with what the word represents, rather than
> > with what it grammatically is. 
> > 
> Ultimately, language is intended to serve the purpose of communication,
> and we shouldn't be too upset to see it mangled as long as it serves 
> that purpose. But when I hear politicians speak in sentences that don;t
> even make sense (and hear rooms full of people applauding them, making
> it obvious that no critical thought intervenes), *then I start to get my
> dander up. There'll be a special room in hell for people who don;t 
> understand that language is *the* critical component of thought.

I have no disagreement whatsoever with this.  But the "rules of
language" (mostly, a kind of guidelines...;-) that one should cherish
for proper communication may often have little to do with grammar per
se.  Passive forms are grammatically correct, for example, but more
often than not they make expression of ideas needlessly contorted -- we
see a lot of those in technical and scientific writing, where we're
often shy about choosing a _subject_ for our sentences... and often
strive to avoid a singular "they"!-).  Politicians (not necessarily the
kind that run for elections) love the obfuscation passives often bring,
of course.  "Singular 'they' is widely considered incorrect", for
example, craftily avoids naming a subject _because any subject would
point out the thesis' weakness_ -- by saying "Pedants widely consider
..." one would reveal one's colors, by saying "Native speakers of
English widely consider ..." one would express a direct lie that's
easily shown up as such.

Admittedly, the role of language is often to communicate _with
ambiguity_ -- this may be sad, or even morally repugnant, but it's a
fact... language evolved as a survival trait of human beings, and pretty
often being able to communicate with ambiguity, so as to trick somebody
and yet later be able to defend the claim that all you said was
perfectly true, is obviously adaptive.  Creative ambiguity has often
been the only way some treatise or contract could be "sold" to the
voters or stockholders of both nations or firms, enabling the
politicians or executives of each side to interpret the words that were
being signed in such a way as to mollify their constituency...

So, in fighting to express ourselves clearly and directly, we _are_
indeed fighting against the grain of a substantial portion of language's
biological purpose (helped, fortunately, by _another_ portion of it;-).
In this fight, good rules help (particularly, they help a good writer
who's able to pick the one case in a hundred where even a good rule is
best broken in the advantage of clarity and directness), but bad rules
hinder even more...


Alex


From noone at here.com  Mon Oct  4 00:54:30 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 05:54:30 +0100
Subject: append to  items  depending on prior item
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjq9l0$kcv$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cjqkub$ubv$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi All,

First my appologies. I wrote this in my first post;

What I want to do is append to each item an extra value depending on the
previous item.

Too keen to get help, what I should have written is;

What I want to do is append to each item an extra value depending on the
previous item and itself.

Alex gave me this;

def weird_appender(sequence):
    choices = dict({None: 'abc'}, item1='abc', item2='def')
    previous = None
    for item in sequence:
        yield item+random.choice(choices.get(previous, choices[None]))
        previous = item
        print weird_appender(sequence)

What I want to do is append to an item, but rather than just getting this
value based on the previous choice
I'd like to say if previous item is 'item1a' and the current item is item2
append some choice. or else if the current item is
item3 append a diferent choice.

Now, I know none of you are on my payroll (and I have been asking for help a
lot), but if that is easy to impliment I would be grateful
if someone could show me how. However, if it isn't so easy to do, is the
previous code Alex gave me along the right lines for my new requirement?
So that if I go away and change / add to it myself I might eventually get it
to work. If not, could someone point me in the direction I should look
at other than a dictionary method. I see it as a sort of multiplication
lookup table i.e. previous items already appended are looked for along the
x axis, the current item unappended is on the y axis, reading along from
both gives the value to append to the current item.

Thanks for putting up with me,

Malcolm




From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct 12 21:04:50 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:04:50 -0400
Subject: School Project, Need Help Fast!
In-Reply-To: <000801c4b0a8$e550f960$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>
References: <000801c4b09f$3f282260$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>
	<416C5832.7070909@cloudthunder.com>
	<000801c4b0a8$e550f960$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <416C7F32.2040807@cloudthunder.com>

Gavin Bauer wrote:

>I understand that there are better ways, but I'm looking for easier... Do
>you have any ideas about the DOS preferences problem?
>
>  
>
What do you mean easier?  Using a dictionary is real easy.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 13:47:22 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:47:22 -0300
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <ck17j6$7ft$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<ck17j6$7ft$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <864d370904100610472cfa621c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:51:49 +0200, F. GEIGER <f.geiger at vol.at> wrote:
> I'm in the process of writing a Waterjet Control in Python (progress is
> slow, 'cause I do it in my spare time). Again and again I am considering to
> go the open source route with it. Until now I didn't dare to do so, because
> still I cannot see how I could earn my living with open source software.
> That's probably the reason, why I again and again postponed to ask here,
> whether anyone would be interested in such a thing and helping to work on
> such a thing resp.

I can't help you with detailed technical aspects. As I said at the
very beginning of this thread, my coding experience with industrial
applications was limited to data communication modules. (I also wrote
bootstrap code for 386 boards, but that's another story that I really
don't like to remember :-). But I can share my own ideas with regard
to open source coding.

For years, I've also been bugged by this same very feeling. Will I
always be able to make a living by means of open source software? At
least for me, the answer is - Yes. The reason is that I never have
lost a business opportunity because someone else just copied my code
from other place; and believe, this is rather easy to happen, no
matter how careful you are. On the other hand, I now realize that lots
of folks could have hired my services if they had the opportunity to
test some code of mine.

In other words: if you are a small company, or a individual, open
source is almost always the best route. You have very little to lose.
You already stand a very small chance to break into stablished
markets. If nobody uses you idea, even for free, you have a clear sign
that the idea wasn't that good to start with. If many people start to
use it, then you have something to make good use of. It gives you
bigger opportunities, and it helps to leverage you knowledge better.
By sharing ideas, your product gets better and bigger much faster.
It's value added, that you can leverage yourself, in the form of
services. Even better, some people may find different uses for your
product or software -- things that you would never think about
yourself -- and you may end up making even more money out of it.

The situation where open source does not make sense (or less sense ?),
is the opposite: you're a stablished company, has a big payroll, and
has invested big bucks on development. In this case you have to find a
stable source of revenue. Open source doesn't guarantee that to you,
unless you can convince big shops to sign a support contract. But for
individuals, I can't see a way to lose anything by doing it.

(btw, a good reason to use the GPL is that it stops greedy companies
from using your software for closed-source development. that's an
issue, 'will someone else make money out of my idea?'. GPL and
Creative Commons licensing addresses that issue)

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 11:48:10 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:48:10 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5154.1098151998.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glwwg1.1hgx2561vflstbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:

> The OP would be well-advised to search the Google archives of c.l.py as
> many (myself included) take the contrarian view - as the project grows in
> size it is harder to justify going with "classic" languages like C++, or
> even Java - the associated costs at each stage of the project are
> relatively larger to begin with, and grow more quickly as well.

I entirely agree with you, Dave.  Moreover, I do have a mass of growing
but as-yet-unorganized notes, based mostly on experiences on large
projects I have consulted for or even been very intimately connected
with, showing why Python is superior to various plausible alternatives
(for various and different reasons in each case) for large-scale
software development, and what principles, practices and patterns best
enable teams in various conditions to actualize those advantages.

That is the book I want to write, the one I have always wanted to write;
the Nutshell and the Cookbook (and now their second editions) keep
delaying that plan, but, in a sense, that's good, because I keep
accumulating useful experiences to enrich those notes, and Python keeps
growing (particularly but not exclusively in terms of third-party
extensions and tools) in ways that refine and sometimes indeed redefine
some key aspects.  To give a simple technical example: I used to have
substantial caveats in those notes cautioning readers to use multiple
inheritance in an extremely sparing, cautious way, due to traps and
pitfalls that made it fragile.  Nowadays, with the advent of 2.3, most
of those traps and pitfalls have gone away (in the newstyle object
model), to the point that the whole issue can be reconsidered.

Anybody who has written serious technical books can gauge the amount of
work it takes to turn "a mass of yet-unorganized notes" into a real
book: it's _staggering_.  I can't seriously undertake the task of making
my copious notes into a book until I can consider devoting at least half
of my time to it for a year -- this means no other books in the making,
_and_ a reduction in the amount of consulting, teaching, mentoring, etc,
that I do.  The biggest general issue is that a book cannot be
_interactive_, _customized_ to the specific skills and interests of a
reader, in the way in which I can customize interactively the kind of
hands-on teaching, mentoring and consulting which I do for a specific
customer.

For a given customer, I can and do find out what kinds of areas they
believe their large projects will cover, what skills their people start
with (and what skills can they expect other people to start with in the
future, depending on expected turnover), the "political" and "social"
dynamics of the team -- is the kind of "customer involvement" that's the
crux of Extreme Programming wrt other kinds of Agile Development
feasible at all, at what cost, etc, for example -- and so on.  I can
avoid spending substantial time and energy on issues which don't matter
to project A even though they may be crucial to most large projects --
believe it or not, SOME projects need no networking, others will never
directly interface to a relational database, etc, etc, even though these
days 9 large projects out of 10 will need to deal with both kinds of
issues; and GUI issues, especially for large projects which mostly deal
with web interfacing vs others which will need traditional GUIs, can be
even more divergent.  And this amount of variety is just for the
_technical_ issues; the political/social/business-plan ones, people's
skills and backgrounds, etc, are even more diverse...

To make a book, I will have to find an organization that works for busy
readers who don't have the time or patience to read through long parts
connected to database issues if they're on one of the few projects that
don't care about databases, and so forth -- structure sections,
chapters, appendices, footnotes, sidebars, ... so that skimming or
skipping the "don't care about it right now" parts can work; find a way
to reach that part of the audience that has never really undertaken a
large project before, or has played in such projects the role of a "cog"
without a clear picture of the whole structure, _as well all_ the lead
architects and tech-savvy project managers.

Lakos did manage, and I admire him immensely for that.  Robert Martin
has also done great work, though his books, while good, are (IMHO) never
_quite_ as excellent as his superb essays (don't get me wrong: I wish I
was half as good as Uncle Bob!-).  Eric Raymond's "Art of Unix
Programming" is one of the most useful books for would-be architects of
software systems that I've ever laid my paws on -- I rate it as close to
the Mythical Man-Month, Design Patterns, Programming Pearls, and a few
of the many recent books on Extreme and other Agile methods (my personal
favorites of the crop are Scott Ambler's and Kent Beck's books).

However, none of these excellent books really addresses the questions
specific to the architecture, design, and development practices that
work best for dynamic VHLLs, and specifically for Python; so, I do
believe the book I dream to write is still needed (even though I might
be a grandfather by the time I'm done with it;-).

Meanwhile, to people and firms which aren't interested in retaining my
professional services, the best advice I can give -- after that of
studying the various books I have mentioned above (as well as good
Python books -- I like my own, but then, of course, I'm biased; I'd also
suggest others, such as Holden's, Pilgrim's, Hetland's, ...) -- is to
try something like:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&as_ugroup=*python*&as_uauth
ors=alex%20martelli&lr=&hl=en>
as well as similar searches for the many other authors that contribute
so validly to the Python discussions, of course.

Somewhere or other, in my 8190 posts found by the above Google Groups
search, I have expressed (often more than once, and with different
nuances depending on the exact subject, apparent skills and interests of
other discussants, etc; as well as sometimes based on my changing ideas
on some sub-issue, or changes in Python and other tools and
technologies) a majority of the issues that I touch upon in that "mass
of notes".  Of course, the stuff is yet more disorganized than said
notes; however, it _is_ written to be read and hopefully understood by
others, while most of said notes are written essentially "to myself", to
remind me of the huge variety of things that may need to be covered
regarding the huge variety of facets that make up the subject "Large
Scale System Architecture, Design, and Development Practices with
Python".  Moreover, a majority of the 8190 posts are undoubtedly dealing
with subjects that aren't really related to LSSADDPP.  Hey, there's
_got_ to be some advantage in retaining me, or reading my hopefully
future book, rather than combing through all my posts, no?-)

Seriously: one day do I hope to start putting up some parts of those
notes, mutated into intelligible text and organized into kind of
almost-essays, on my website -- fragments of said future book, but more
accessible and usable than the sheer morass of posts above-mentioned.
But don't hold your breath for _that_, any more than for the book; I've
been meaning to redo my site for _years_, and it just hasn't happened...
there's always something else that looks more interesting, either
intrinsically, and/or because of the little issue of money;-).  Some
stuff (mostly presentations) you can find at www.strakt.com, which also
has important stuff written by Jacob Hall?n and others.

People with lot of important and interesting things to teach, who have
managed to do a much better job than me at organizing their stuff on the
web, include for example Fredrik Lundh and Marc-Andre Lemburg.  The
latter gave an hour-long talk this summer at Europython on the subject.
Unfortunately I can't easily find his presentation on
www.europython.org, nor Fredrik's, but I'm sure that an abler searcher
than me will manage, and they do have their own websites as well.  In
any case, I'm sure that either of them could be (and often is, in their
respective professional practices) at least as effective as a teacher,
consultant or mentor, on large-scale software projects in Python, as me;
and the same applies no doubt to many others.  In fact, the Python world
is blessed, in my opinion, with quite a number of excellent people who
might fill such roles -- one more reason to consider Python for
large-scale, mission-critical development, in fact!!!-)


Alex


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 24 09:42:37 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:42:37 -0400
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <ur7np9og4.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
	<QPmdndr7xOOG-efcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca> <ur7np9og4.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <VNGdnYlbv67QLObcRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

David Bolen wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
>>That's not necessary in almost all cases.  Windows happily(*)
>>accepts forward slashes in all system calls.  The only place
>>it does not is in the *shell* (aka command.com and cmd.exe). (...)
> 
> Actually, almost all system calls.  I don't have the precise list
> handy, but there are some related to networking that use UNC names
> that expect to see a machine name supplied as a string as "\\machine"
> and will not accept "//machine".

Have you verified that those calls would *not* accept
something like "\\machine/share/path/file"?

If they accept this, then I would simply argue that the \\machine
part has nothing to do with a path, other than the accident
of sharing (but doubling) the backslash that we're used to
in Windows paths.  It's a machine name, not a path, similar to
how C: is a drive name, not a path, and therefore needs special
handling.

After all, you don't expect to be able to use C/ instead of C:,
and I don't think one should necessarily expect //machine to
work instead of \\machine.

This is mostly supposition/theory/wild hand-waving, however.
I don't know the reality.  If you post a few of the APIs that
you mention, I can try to disprove my theory.

-Peter


From luismg at gmx.net  Mon Oct 11 22:36:10 2004
From: luismg at gmx.net (Neuruss)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 19:36:10 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
	<278de0e.0410102052.693297d7@posting.google.com>
	<6f402501.0410110805.67cd3fb4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <278de0e.0410111836.3a5314e0@posting.google.com>

> I wish that more was heard from projects like starkiller, PyPy and
> Psyco. Pyrex seems to be going strong though.

Latest news from Mike Salib (Starkiller):

"I've been stuck doing other things and have been kind of down lately,
but I do want to finish a real Starkiller release before I start my new
job in early october..."
"I know a lot of people are waiting on Starkiller (and my seemingly
endless delays), but it is coming along, and it will be ready when its
ready.
I'd rather wait until I can get a release out before sending anything to
the newsgroup or mailing lists."


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 09:56:31 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:56:31 +0200
Subject: C API eqivalent of object.__new__
References: <tyfis9uewct.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyfekkieka4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gkzg4y.a7sne11n04ng0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacv6e98e.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gkzozy.dbfgcurv3dfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyf655qewni.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gl4rjf.ue50gr1dk7vtfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfy8imd45e.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1gl52t4.1gnwphz1cgb0qdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
   ...
> > exactly as above, and Kent says that he's heard this motto throughout
> > his childhood from his father, an engineer (I dunno in which field, it
> > seemed to me that ``as Kent Beck often writes, quoting his father, ...''
> > is an excellent attribution, so I didn't check further;-).
> 
> ... which means that I could have picked this up from just about
> anything that Kent has written or even the Python Nutshell or
> Cookbook?
> 
> Indeed, it's right there at the beginning of the _Optimization_
> section of the Nutshell.

Oh good -- I _would_ have been worried had it NOT been there;-).


Alex


From phleum_nospam at chello.se  Sun Oct 24 15:22:31 2004
From: phleum_nospam at chello.se (Carl)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:22:31 +0200
Subject: Reuters 3000 Xtra and Python
Message-ID: <WPSed.953$mm6.230@amstwist00>

Does anyone know how to access and download data from Reuters 3000 Xtra from
Python? 

Is COM a viable option?

Carl



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 05:01:00 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:01:00 -0300
Subject: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <4164F121.1010203@po-box.mcgill.ca>
References: <4164F121.1010203@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Message-ID: <864d3709041007020146f74b3b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 03:32:49 -0400, Brian van den Broek
<bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote:
> I'm looking for a stand alone Python wiki engine that does not require a
> web server such as Apache or MS IIS. I have found such beasts in other
> languages (e.g. <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EddiesWiki> in C++, and a couple
> in Ruby), but none written in Python. A pointer to any that I've missed
> would be most appreciated.

I've had the same isue. I ended up using MoinMoin -- it *has* a very
simple internal webserver option, in purePython, although the option
is buried somewhere deep inside the documentation. It's commonly used
by notebook users, btw, for what I could see.

I like MoinMoin design -- it's clean and easily extensible. The
default layout is not anything to write home about, but there are some
alternate templates; I'm using one that looks really pretty. I
customized a few aspects of it, transforming it into a mixed blog/wiki
engine. I've now nearly stopped using it for a few reasons, mainly
because I miss being able to read it when I'm out of my office. I
still manage to write from time to time... but I would like to
integrate it better with other stuff that I like, such as a RSS feed,
and I'm not in the mood to hack MoinMoin to do it right now.

While looking for it, I've came across CherryPy. It's a simple web
application environment that includes a pure Python webserver. It's
really neat, light and pythonic. Someday I'll hack a blog/wiki of my
own, with all features that I want. Check it, if you think you can do
your own development, it's a nice platform to start working with (btw,
CherryPy2 is *much* better designed but it was not released yet).

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 13:14:19 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:14:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: quick regex question
References: <20041028164648.GA32572@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <loom.20041028T191220-267@post.gmane.org>

Matt Price <matt.price <at> utoronto.ca> writes:
> 
> this is surely trivial, but can'f figure it out.  I wnat to replace:
> 
> 'string with spaces'
> with
> 'StringWithSpaces'


I know you asked for a regex solution, but I thought I'd drop this suggestion
anyway (not everything really merits a regex) =)

>>> string1 = 'string with spaces'
>>> ''.join([s.title() for s in string1.split()])
'StringWithSpaces'

Clear, concise, and uses in the builtin str.title method, which appears to do
exactly what you want.

Steve



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct 21 12:19:51 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:19:51 +0200
Subject: Matrix (list-in-list), how to get a column?
References: <mailman.5261.1098371947.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl8ni9$d1r$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Arvid Andersson wrote:

> I have some data that looks like this:
> data = [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]]
> 
> I want to send columns 1 and 2 to a function
> as two variables, say "plot(col1,col2)".

In the general case list comprehensions are the way to go, but for the
problem specified above you can use a neat zip() trick, assuming that
plot() also accepts tuples instead of lists:

 >>> def plot(col1, col2): # plots nothing, but shows its arguments
...     print "col1", col1
...     print "col2", col2
...
>>> data = [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]]
>>> plot(*zip(*data))
col1 (1, 3, 5)
col2 (2, 4, 6)

The star prefix feeds the items in the following list as arguments to the
function, so zip(*[[1, 2], [3, 4]]) is the same as zip([1, 2], [3, 4]),
which in turn gives you [(1, 3), (2, 4)] as the result. 
The same technique can then be repeated with plot().

Peter





From listserver at tdw.net  Sat Oct  9 11:07:56 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:07:56 +0100
Subject: POP3 Filter
Message-ID: <010401c4ae11$c35f0d40$ccbefea9@twilliams>

"Ross Boylan" <RossBoylan at stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.10.09.04.31.10.107762 at stanfordalumni.org...
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:11:43 -0700, crystal1 wrote:

> > Has anyone created a python script that listens on the default POP3 port
> > for incoming mail, kills certain messages based on a criteria, and
> > forwards the output to a non-standard port the POP3 server is listening
on?

POP3 doesn't listen for incoming email or forward/send email,  SMTP does
that part..    POP3 servers listen for mailbox access requests

> > Upon recieving requests from a sender, the script would transparently
> > forward traffic to the off port unless a violating condition is
encountered.
> >
> > I'd like to use the listening python script to check for a correct 'to:'
> >   address format, attachment size limit, etc.
>
> It's doable, and has been done.  For example, I use mailfilter (though
> I don't think it's in python).
>
> POP3 does allow you to kill individual messages before downloading
> them.  The problem is that, if you want to avoid downloading them, you
> can't get too much info.  I think it would be possible to be cleverer
> than mailfilter, since (at least some) POP servers can give you the
> start of a message without giving you the whole thing.

Yes, this is a problem when filtering pop3 mail,  you often need to download
each email into the filter *before* being able to run any filters on it.
Often,  using plain old mailbox rules might make more sense if the checks
are simple.

There are such things as POP3 proxying filters,   where the mail client asks
*the proxy* for its email,   the proxy then fetches the email from the
mailbox and checks it before passing it to the client.  However,  this is
done in real-time and whilst modifying the email (marking it as spam, or
removing the content ) wouldn't cause problems,  if the proxy decides not to
pass an email to the client,  the client might error.

Have a look at popf.py (proxying spam filter) at
http://christophe.delord.free.fr/en/popf/index.html  and spambayes (spam
filters and clients) at http://spambayes.sourceforge.net/    They might both
be able to explain all the technical issues you will come up against.

You may also consider a slightly different approach,   you can use a mail
server that allows you to script your own checks.   That way you can get
many more built in features,  plus you are able to implement the checks you
need

I have an implementation in one organisation that uses VPOP3 (albeit an
older version) from www.pscs.co.uk     It accepts incoming SMTP and also
downloads from multiple pop3 mailboxes,  then calls my scripts (some are
python) as pre-processors (virus, spam, spf, rbl, header validation checks
etc).  Once the mail is accepted, it is handled in the way that org  needs
(distribution and mailing lists,  local mailboxes,  forwarding to other
addresses and other servers on (non-)standard ports.etc

HTH



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Oct  4 14:10:13 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:10:13 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cjs3m4$4qe$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> :Local overhead???  Private branch???  How come?  I'm extending the
> language not adding another Python interpreter.

In fact, you do. As long as you don't implement it as mere preprocessor -
then of course, you can do what you want.

> I was thinking Scheme.

Nope, there is no such thing - if you want it, use scheme/lisp.

> Not sure I understand you here.  I want to implement messages like in
> ObjC where if you send a msg to an object and that object does know what
> to do with it, it can send the obj automatically to another object which
> might know what to do with it.

Not sure what you mean by this, as I never used ObjC - I suppose you wanted
to say "that object does *not* know what to do with it". Unless you get a
bit more specific, I can't suggest something more concrete, but I bet
metaclasses can come handy here - after all, writing delegating classes in
python using them (and other techniques) is easy and sounds like an
approach to what you might want.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct 19 19:03:19 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:03:19 GMT
Subject: Python Newbie
References: <cl2mdn$a6n$1@news.swman.net.uk>
	<mailman.5163.1098179132.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lrlf42-sg8.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.5163.1098179132.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Gerhard Haering  <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:
>On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 10:20:02AM +0100, abhay wrote:
>> I am confused between learning Python or learning Perl. Please any view,
>> opinions and suggestions are welcomed.
>
>Both can be incredibly useful tools for you, with which you can solve
>problems much faster than with the heavyweight languages/environments
>that are hyped with the Enterprise(tm) label *cough*
>
>I believe that if Python or Perl is right for you, depends on your way
>of thinking. For some people, Perl fits their mind better. But for
>those that are not Python is getting them to where they want faster,
>and with less headaches ;-)
>
>I'd recommend you first download the Python interpreter, and grab a
>tutorial (http://python.org/doc/Intros.html is a good starting point)
>and play around with it. You'll see soon enough if you like it.
			.
			.
			.
Absolutely on-target.  Abhay, let me add emphasis to a few of
the points Gerhard has made, in recognition that you might have
a background that makes them unfamiliar or hard to grasp:
*) Learning (at least) one of Perl and Python is
   a great idea.  If your notions of programming
   are limited to the Visual Basic-Java-C++
   circle taught many places, new vistas of
   productivity and reward lie before you.
*) Perl and Python are equivalent, to first 
   order.  They are largely comparable in a 
   functional sense, and it's thoroughly rational
   to decide between them based on specific 
   factors of your own situation, including how
   they "feel".
*) Also in contrast to VB-Java-C++ and other 
   languages, you can acquire a useful sense of
   these languages' characters with an invest-
   ment of a few hours.  They're far "lighter"
   than other language technologies.  Download
   them, and try them out for yourself.  That
   counsel is not a platitude; it's the best 
   advice we can give.

We elaborated some of these matters in <URL:
http://www.itworld.com/AppDev/4061/swol-0202-regex/ >.


From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Thu Oct 21 12:32:55 2004
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:32:55 -0400
Subject: Method Underscores?
In-Reply-To: <cdJdd.5313$WN5.3726@trndny08>
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<mailman.5249.1098340790.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cdJdd.5313$WN5.3726@trndny08>
Message-ID: <YwRdd.231$N92.55@fe61.usenetserver.com>

Chris S. wrote:
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
>> In terms of .len() vs .__len__(), it is not supposed to be called
>> directly by user code; __len__() is called indirectly by the len()
>> builtin (and similarly for the other __<op>__() methods, check common
>> spellings in the operator module).
> 
> I realize that. My point is why? Why is the default not object.len()? 
> The traditional object oriented way to access an object's attribute is 
> as object.attribute. For those that are truly attached to the antiquated 
> C-style notation, I see no reason why method(object) and object.method() 
> cannot exist side-by-side if need be. 

Python is a multi-paradigm language.  It supports OO, but also 
imperative and functional styles.  There is nothing "antiquated" about 
the len() notation, it's simply a different style.

Admittedly, it has been there from the very beginning, when not every 
built-in object had (public) methods, so obj.len() was not an option 
back then.

> Using method(object) instead of 
> object.method() is a throwback from Python's earlier non-object oriented 
> days, 

There were no such days.  Python has always been object-oriented.

> and something which should be phased out by p3k. Personally, I'd 
> like to see the use of underscores in name-mangling thrown out 
> altogether, as they "uglify" certain code and have no practical use in a 
> truly OO language, but I'm sure that's a point many will disagree with 
> me on.

I don't know what "truly OO" is.  It appears that every language 
designer has his own ideas about that.  Hence, Java's OO is not the same 
as C++'s, or Smalltalk's, or Self's, or CLOS's, or...

I suppose it might be clearer if one could write

def +(self, other):
     ...

but then again it might not.  I personally don't have a problem with 
__add__ and friends.

--Hans



From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 18 00:20:33 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 04:20:33 GMT
Subject: UNIX-style sort in Python?
References: <I-6dnfLpv8Gzl-7cRVn-sw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <41734491$0$27969$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-18, Kotlin Sam <xavier_onasis at hotmail.com> wrote:

> For a while at least I have to work in Windows rather than UNIX, which 
> is more familiar. I'm trying to do with Python some of the things that 
> I've done for years in shell, in particular, sort. The shell sort is
> pretty easy to use:

Sounds like you need to install Cygwin so you have a real bash
shell and all of the normal shell utilities.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm in ATLANTIC CITY
                                  at               riding in a comfortable
                               visi.com            ROLLING CHAIR...


From avantman42 at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 27 19:34:34 2004
From: avantman42 at hotmail.com (Russ Phillips)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 16:34:34 -0700
Subject: wxPython - get text from wxTextCtrl on a seperate frame
References: <63d215dd.0410270526.551740a9@posting.google.com>
	<z1Ofd.12038$6q2.11182@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <63d215dd.0410271534.6ea5fe97@posting.google.com>

John Fabiani <jfabiani at yolo.com> wrote in message news:<z1Ofd.12038$6q2.11182 at newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>...

> First it might be better to ask this question on wxPython-user group rather 
> than here - it may help you in the future.  
> I can't follow the code so I'll provide what I'd normally do.

Thanks, John.

As it happened, after I posted my question, I had lunch, and when I
came back to it, I got it working! Typical :-)

Thanks again for your help,

Russ


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 12:35:22 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:35:22 -0600
Subject: Matlab import
References: <4164fec6.5798796@news.marelli.it>
Message-ID: <ck3r8a$d7v$1@sea.gmane.org>

Alberto wrote:

> Dear all,
> often I recived data in matlab format (.mat) I'd like to process these
> data in python environment. Are there some libreries to import .mat
> format in python ?

In [2]: scipy.io.loadmat?
Type:           function
Base Class:     <type 'function'>
String Form:    <function loadmat at 0x2a4b3f7c>
Namespace:      Interactive
File:           /home/fperez/misc/scipy/io/mio.py
Definition:     scipy.io.loadmat(name, dict=None, appendmat=1, basename='raw')
Docstring:
    Load the MATLAB(tm) mat file.

    If name is a full path name load it in.  Otherwise search for the file
    on the sys.path list and load the first one found (the current directory
    is searched first).

    Both v4 (Level 1.0) and v5 matfiles are supported.

    Inputs:

      name -- name of the mat file (don't need .mat extension if appendmat=1)
      dict -- the dictionary to insert into.  If none the variables will be
              returned in a dictionary.
      appendmat -- non-zero to append the .mat extension to the end of the
                   given filename.
      basename -- for MATLAB(tm) v5 matfiles raw data will have this basename.

    Outputs:

      If dict is None, then a dictionary of names and objects representing the
      stored arrays is returned.


Cheers,

f



From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Wed Oct  6 06:37:13 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:37:13 GMT
Subject: Still more language co-operation
In-Reply-To: <e6ea32-egv.ln1@lairds.us>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<e6ea32-egv.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <tVP8d.26879$N45.697919@twister2.libero.it>

Cameron Laird ha scritto:

>>Really?  Hmmmm, does anyone know of a bridge between Python and Ruby?
> 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> Yes.  <URL: http://www.goto.info.waseda.ac.jp/~fukusima/ruby/python-e.html >
> is one such.

IIRC that was working with python < 2.0


From mike at hobbshouse.org  Mon Oct 25 23:35:34 2004
From: mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 03:35:34 -0000
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5432.1098719901.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d2543$0$45533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <10nrhg6490eqn8d@corp.supernews.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> On 2004-10-25, Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:
>> It would probably be a smart move to just *ask* the author of
>> the module if it's ok with him what you're planning to do.
>> Only if the two of you disagree, then you need to worry about
>> the legal questions.
> 
> I don't really want to have to come to individual agreements
> with 5-10 different module authors.  That's why "standard"
> licenses were invented.

It seems to me that any developer who releases a *library* under the
GPL falls into one of two camps:
A) The developer is unaware of the LGPL and/or the distinction between
the GPL and the LGPL.
B) The developer specifically intends to enforce the GPL on any
application that uses the library.

My guess is that 90% of all such developers fall into camp A. A simple
form email to each developer explaining the distinction and asking for
a license revision would probably resolve all problems.

If you happen to find a developer that falls into camp B, well, that's
his intent and there's not much you can do about it other than find a
different library.

-- Mike Hobbs



From franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at  Thu Oct 21 07:58:06 2004
From: franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:58:06 +0200
Subject: excluding search string in regular expressions
References: <pc7fn0l6i0nso8onn0kh6gvt6o3sug4sd0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <fc8fn010l31ae6fqoh0ssj0f40beekafug@4ax.com>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:36:46 +0200, Franz Steinhaeusler
<franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at> wrote:

>
>single characters with [^ab] but I need not(ab)
>
>not_this_brace_pattern(\*\*/\n).*::

Sorry, 
is this the solution (simple concatenating [^*][^*][^/]\n.*:: ?


The background:
I want to scan cpp file, whether the have a doxygen comment already:
It should find all postitions, where this is missing:

ok

doxygen comment
**/
void CBs::InitButtonPanel (int progn1, int progn2)

the problem is to find the method or function definition, and for 
that, I need a regex.
it should ignore blabla::InitButtonPanel(a, b);

So a mark is that if there is a semikolon at the end, 
it is no function or method defininition.

So I would need 
[^*][^*][^/]\n.*[)]*[^;]
but this is not working.

Thank you again in advance!
-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From mwh at python.net  Thu Oct  7 09:12:03 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:12:03 GMT
Subject: id() collisions on bound methods [was: metaclass and  
 customization with parameters]
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F33@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
	<20041005235752.29723.1522463815.divmod.quotient.10124@ohm>
	<59e9fd3a04100517216b5bf323@mail.gmail.com>
	<864d370904100518566559f66e@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4406.1097030810.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2sjt67F1metb2U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <m3ekka3c69.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:

> Jeff Epler wrote:
> > In the Olden Days, "caching" bound methods would have led to cycles
> > that were never collected.  Nowadays, there's a cyclic GC collector,
> > so if that was the killer for this idea maybe it's worth revisiting.
> 
> Alternatively, creation of the bound method could be skipped
> altogether in the case where it's going to be immediately called.
> This could be achieved by having
> 
>     obj.meth(args)
> 
> generate a single CALL_METHOD opcode instead of an attribute
> lookup followed by a call.

Been done: http://python.org/sf/709744

Unfortunately, it seems to cause an overall slow DOWN...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  SCSI is not magic. There are fundamental technical reasons why it
  is necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and
  then.                                                  -- John Woods


From just at xs4all.nl  Sun Oct  3 02:03:19 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 08:03:19 +0200
Subject: WeakValueDictionary
References: <VEK7d.58507$He1.41678@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <just-6F37BC.08031903102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <VEK7d.58507$He1.41678 at attbi_s01>, Bryan <belred1 at yahoo.com> 
wrote:

> there must be something i don't understand about WeakKeyDictionary and 
> WeakValueDictionary.  i had expected the last 
> line to be empty because i thought i deleted the last strong reference to 
> variable "a". what am i misunderstanding?
> 
>  >>> d = weakref.WeakValueDictionary()
>  >>> a = A()
>  >>> d[1] = a
>  >>> d.items()
> [(1, <__main__.A instance at 0x0116BC60>)]
>  >>> del a
>  >>> d.items()
> [(1, <__main__.A instance at 0x0116BC60>)]
>  >>>

There's a reference left in the magic _ variable:

  >>> import weakref
  >>> class A: pass
  ... 
  >>> d = weakref.WeakValueDictionary()
  >>> a = A()
  >>> d[1] = a
  >>> d.items()
  [(1, <__main__.A instance at 0x115490>)]
  >>> del a
  >>> d.items()
  [(1, <__main__.A instance at 0x115490>)]
  >>> _
  [(1, <__main__.A instance at 0x115490>)]
  >>> 12
  12
  >>> d.items()
  []
  >>> 

Just


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 21 11:41:15 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:41:15 +0200
Subject: Matrix (list-in-list), how to get a column?
References: <mailman.5261.1098371947.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm0or0.aotrag1amnt2tN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Arvid Andersson <arvid at linux.se> wrote:

> Good afternoon,
> 
> I have some data that looks like this:
> data = [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]]
> 
> I want to send columns 1 and 2 to a function
> as two variables, say "plot(col1,col2)".
> 
> I can get a row by data[r], but how do I get a
> column? data[:][c] would have been my guess,
> but that returns the same list as data[r].

Right: data[:] makes a shallow copy of data, then you index into that --
no use.

col_c = [row[c] for row in data]

is probably the simplest, best and most idiomatic way to extract column
'c' from this kind of list-of-lists.

> Is there a more elegant solution than this?
> 
> col1 = []
> col2 = []
> for i in range(len(data)):
>   col1 += [a[i][0]]
>   col2 += [a[i][1]]

Several -- this one has not a few small imperfections.  For example,
there is generally no need to iterate on indices:

    for row in data:
        col1 += [row[0]]

&c, would already be a small enhancement.  Moreover,
'col1 += [something]' is just a complicated way to express
col1.append(something), so you could further move to:

    for row in data:
        col1.append(row[0])

&c.  And finally, you can recognize the pattern that:

anylist = []
for item in somewhere:
    anylist.append(<expression using item>)

is exactly what's meant by a list comprehension:

anylist = [<expression using item> for item in somewhere]

thus getting to the above-suggested

col1 = [row[0] for row in data]

and the like.  Since a list comprehension is an expression, you don't
have to give it a name if you don't want to; just pass it as the
argument in the function call.  Moreover, if you do this thing often,
much legibility at the cost of a tiny overhead could be had by having

def col(data, colindex):
    return [row[colindex] for row in data]

and using col(data, 0) and col(data, 1) as arguments to the function
you're calling.


Alex


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 08:26:30 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:26:30 -0300
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <1gl8c8b.1fw150q3o59n4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4161a7e3$0$80627$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416212A9.2030300@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4332.1096980308.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8c8b.1fw150q3o59n4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904100605265bbee2e5@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:24:44 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>    ...
> >     def __getattr__(self, attrname):
> >         # self.__dict__ contains the local dict of Dog
> >         message = getattr(self.__dict__, attrname, None)
> 
> The only kind of *attributes* you'll find for self.__dict__ are methods
> such as keys, items, copy, and so on.  Attributes and items are very
> different things, of course.  I suspect this code is a serious bug,
> i.e., the intention is *NOT* to have somedog.copy() return a copy of
> somedog.__dict__ and so on.  self.__dict__ will never have attrname as a
> key at this point, either, or else __getattr__ would never have been
> entered in the first place (don't confuse __getattr__ with the rarely
> needed, rarely used __getattribute__!!!).  In short, I believe this
> whole part and the following if/else construct just need to be excised.

Thanks (again!). Another dumb mistake. I have mixed up __get__attr,
descriptors, and __getattribute__ in my head, all at once, and messed
up the concepts. Too much reading and too little practice do it :-).
The funny thing is that the code worked as written, at least for my
small test case, because it failed to find the dog.fetch method
anyway.
 
> If you want to delegate attribute lookup (including method lookup) from
> self to self.owner, ALL you need is:
> 
>   def __getattr__(self, n): return getattr(self.owner, n)


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com  Tue Oct 26 03:31:14 2004
From: drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com (drs)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:31:14 GMT
Subject: Expiring Database Connections
References: <kkorn0lsvp56i4vsvbm8e6drnln27trada@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <63nfd.22460$JS4.6488@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

"Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message
news:kkorn0lsvp56i4vsvbm8e6drnln27trada at 4ax.com...
> Many of the Python-based web solutions use a long-running process:
WebWare,
> FastCGI, and mod_python all run an interpreter long-term, and keep the
> classes loaded until the web server stops.
>
> On Windows, with some databases, this represents a problem.  With Access
> specifically, and with SQLite occasionally, having an open database
> connection can make it impossible to open the database from another
> process, such as from a command line.  It seems to me that I could solve
> this problem by starting up a deadman timer when a database connection is
> opened, and if no additional connections are made in, say, one or two
> minutes, close the database connection completely.
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has done such a thing and/or has any thoughts or
> comments.  My web searches were unsuccessful.

Perhaps you could create a middle tier between the web and db to hold and or
pool the db connections.  This way, you don't need to worry about which web
processes continue to run, you can share the connection object among them so
you don't have to close it at all, and you'll have a bit more control.

-drs




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 31 17:27:28 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:27:28 GMT
Subject: Faking out __name__ == __main__
References: <mailman.5739.1099260363.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41856376.1288438706@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:05:59 -0500, Ed Leafe <ed at leafe.com> wrote:

>	I'm working on creating a generic runtime engine for the Dabo 
>framework. Right now I'm focusing on Windows, since many of our 
>potential users are running on that platform. I've got py2exe and Inno 
>Setup running, so all that is well and good.
>
>	My question concerns the ability to generically run scripts as if they 
>were being run on an installed copy of Python. Many scripts have the 
>following structure:
>
>if __name__ == "__main__":
>	method1()
>	method2()
>	...etc.
>	methodN()
>
>When such a script is run with the command 'python myscript.py', the 
>various methods are called. However, when run with 'daborun 
>myscript.py', (daborun is the name of the py2exe file), nothing gets 
>executed, since when the call to 'myscript.py' is made, __name__ is now 
>set to 'myscript', and the statements after the 'if __name__' test are 
>never executed.
>
>	I have several ways of working around this, such as requiring that all 
>code after the 'if __name__' test be moved into a 'main()' method, and 
>having daborun call the main() method, but it would *so* much cooler to 
>be able to somehow fake out the value of __name__ when the call is made 
>to the script. Is this something that might be possible, or is it so 
>fundamental to the internals of Python that it can't be messed with?
>
Maybe this will give you a useful idea?

 >>> print '%s\n%s%s'% ('-'*40, open('tmain.py').read(), '-'*40)
 ----------------------------------------
 print 'before'
 print 'localnames:', locals().keys(), locals()['__name__']
 print 'globalnames:', globals().keys(), globals()['__name__']
 if __name__ == '__main__':
     print 'after'
 ----------------------------------------
 >>> def test():
 ...     d = {'__name__': '__xxxx__'}
 ...     execfile('tmain.py', d)
 ...
 >>> test()
 before
 localnames: ['__builtins__', '__name__'] __xxxx__
 globalnames: ['__builtins__', '__name__'] __xxxx__
 >>> def test():
 ...     d = {'__name__': '__main__'}
 ...     execfile('tmain.py', d)
 ...
 >>> test()
 before
 localnames: ['__builtins__', '__name__'] __main__
 globalnames: ['__builtins__', '__name__'] __main__
 after

Note that __builtins__ gets injected, so it will be found in the execution context.
If you need the side effects of the execution, you can find them in the dict d (in
this example).
Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Oct 18 16:15:03 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:15:03 +0200
Subject: Yahoo SMTP
In-Reply-To: <qs-dnbx84thfvOncRVn-2Q@powergate.ca>
References: <2tgn1sF1vnm4fU1@uni-berlin.de>	<20041018151227.11669.00002008@mb-m15.aol.com>
	<qs-dnbx84thfvOncRVn-2Q@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <41742447.6060709@ghaering.de>

Peter L Hansen wrote:
> LutherRevisited wrote:
>> Thanks for the reply, recently I have tightened up my code to now 
>> reach the point where my ISP can reject me on port 25...LOL  I am
>> curioius about AUTH, [...]
> 
> If Googling for "smtp auth" didn't help you, try adding "rfc" and
> you should get where you need to be to learn more.
> 
> (Unless you are asking "how is this done in Python", in which
> case the answer is either "it isn't" (if it isn't), or "use
> the source" (if it is).  ;-) )

SMTP AUTH with Python works using the login() method of the SMTP object. 
It supports the methods CRAM-MD5, PLAIN and LOGIN :-)

-- Gerhard


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct 20 13:02:59 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:02:59 -0700
Subject: Can Python run on the Internet
In-Reply-To: <cl58ko$2l0$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
References: <cl58ko$2l0$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20041020095650.0A97.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> I'd like to use Python in my classes, but some students do not have a 
> pc.  They do have access to Internet-connected systems, though.  Is 
> there a site someplace on the Internet (preferably a web server) where 
> someone can submit a Python program to be run?  Telnet may be possible 
> to use, but a browser would be ideal.

1. Find some machine that is connected to the internet; windows, mac or
linux.
2. Set up an SSH server on the machine (it is like telnet, only secure),
there are free SSH servers and clients for all platforms (there is a
great java SSH client which can be embedded in a web page called
MindTerm).
3. Install Python on the machine.
4. Give students a/some login(s).

Now, this will get it running; deciding whether you trust your students
in a situation like this is another question.

 - Josiah



From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct  5 08:08:09 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:08:09 GMT
Subject: Still more language co-operation (was: New to Python: Features)
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e6ea32-egv.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Richard Blackwood  <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Really?  Hmmmm, does anyone know of a bridge between Python and Ruby?
			.
			.
			.
Yes.  <URL: http://www.goto.info.waseda.ac.jp/~fukusima/ruby/python-e.html >
is one such.


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Oct 26 21:45:01 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:45:01 -0700
Subject: What does [...] mean?
References: <mailman.5535.1098841246.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417EFD9D.B4F51404@alcyone.com>

Charles Hixson wrote:

> Clearly I have a problem with the truncation of the final this, but
> what
> does the internal [...] mean?
> It's generated by doing:
> print "d = <<", d, ">>"
> 
> If it matters, I'm using Python 2.3.4 on Linux.

It usually means that you have a self-referencing data structure, and so
repr is being kind enough not to recursively display it forever:

>>> l = [1, 2]
>>> l.append(l)
>>> l
[1, 2, [...]]

You haven't given any indication of how d was created, so it's not
really possible to help further than that.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Maybe this world is another planet's Hell.
    -- Aldous Huxley


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 22 07:52:31 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:52:31 -0400
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
 exception
In-Reply-To: <2e37dc1.0410212312.4268147d@posting.google.com>
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
	<cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<2e37dc1.0410201242.9bca574@posting.google.com>
	<ROXdd.8976$SW3.2862@fed1read01>
	<2e37dc1.0410212312.4268147d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <PA6ed.16837$jd.15866@lakeread04>

Vinay Sajip wrote:

> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<ROXdd.8976$SW3.2862 at fed1read01>...
> 
>>But how much simpler
>>
>>logging.want("%(string)s and the %(number)d dwarves",
>>                 string="Snow White", number=7)
>>
> 
> 
> logging.want? ;-)
> 
Wishful thinking :-)

> Well, it was a trivial example. In real use cases, the dict would be a
> variable rather than a literal. The problem with using kwargs is that
> it could interfere with keyword arguments passed to the logging method
> (currently only exc_info, but there may be others in future).
> 

Indeed, my ignorance of the current API misled me. But *otherwise* it 
would have been a good idea, no?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Oct  7 19:54:13 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:54:13 -0500
Subject: UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa0 in
	position 10: ordinal not in range(128)
In-Reply-To: <95c29a5e.0410071540.c27186a@posting.google.com>
References: <95c29a5e.0410071540.c27186a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041007235413.GB6737@unpythonic.net>

If you compare a unicode string to a byte string, and the byte-string
has byte values >127, you will get an error like this:
    >>> u'a' == '\xc0'
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0x80 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)

There is no sensible way for Python to perform this comparison, because
the byte string '\xc0' could be in any encoding.  If the encoding of the
byte string is latin-1, it's LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH GRAVE.  If it's
koi8-r encoded, it's CRYILLIC SMALL LETTER YU.  Python refuses to guess
in this case.

It doesn't matter whether the unicode string contains any characters
that are non-ASCII characters.

To correct your function, you'll have to know what encoding the byte
string is in, and convert it to unicode using the decode() method,
and compare that result to the unicode string.

Jeff
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From cce at clarkevans.com  Mon Oct 11 13:54:29 2004
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:54:29 -0400
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <loom.20041011T184743-487@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20041011T184743-487@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20041011175428.GA69425@prometheusresearch.com>

On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 04:58:27PM +0000, Steven Bethard wrote:
| Clark C. Evans wrote:
| >    def somerandomname(args):
| >        body
| >    func(arg, somerandomname)
| > 
| > So, you've taken something that is a perfectly clear one-liner and
| > converted it into a 3 line chunk of code with _zero_ added clarity,
| > in fact, I'd say you've dramatically reduced clarity by requiring
| > the a name be 'minted'.
| 
| The argument that was given to me is that, if I wrote my def statement
| as a general enough function, I could reuse the function at multiple 
| points in the code.

By this logic, one would make a function,

  def quadratic(a,b,c):
      def eval(x):
          return a*x*x+b*x+c

and use quadratic(0,2,1,x) where you'd otherwise write (2*x+1)?
Then, it follows that for lazy-evaluation cases, you'd write,

   func(arg, quadratic(0,2,1))

insead of the more succinct,

   func(arg, lambda x: 2*x+1)

Trying to 'generalize', aka 'normalize everything' on one or two use
cases dramatically bloats code size and, contrary to what one would
believe, makes things much less understandable.

For example, Guido is also in favor of dropping reduce/map and other
"generic functions" beacuse list comprehensions do a much better job
at expressing intent.  In my opinion, lambda is more like list 
comprehensions (a succinct syntax for a common idiom) than it 
is like these other functional parts of Python.

| This was mostly true for me, but there are some styles of code that I 
| don't write too much (e.g. event-driven) so I can imagine that this 
| might not be as applicable to others...

Lazy evaulation, currying, and other similar cases need some sort
of anonymous block.  Those same people who would take lambda away
from me, are the same ones that freak out when they see this:

   { 'one': 1, 'two': 2 }.get(x, None)

as they'd rather write it as a bunch of if/then statements (*gags*).

| I think the point was to have full-fledged anonymous functions, 
| instead of lambdas, which are restricted to a single expression. 

I don't mind this "limitation" of lambda.  In a way, it makes a nice
boundary condition, if you have so much logic in your expression
that you need a statement especially a loop -- perhaps you do have a
real-live code block that should be named and documented.

That said, a simple conditional expression would be delightful, as 
I often use mappings (see above) for this sort of logic.


| Of course, the syntax chosen for this is (to some degree, 
| at least) arbitrary, but the idea would be to allow things like:
| 
| func(arg1, lambda arg2:
|                self.update(arg2)hose 
|                return arg2*2)

A dirty trick for this case,

    lambda arg2: (self.update(arg2),arg2*2)[-1]
   
Or,

    def last(*args):
        return args[-1]

    func(arg1,lambda arg2: last(self.update(arg2),arg2*2))

In this case I _do_ use a function called last in my code,
since it is indeed generic, reusable, and therefore should
be given a name.


| My understanding is that no one's ever found an anonymous def
| syntax that everyone really likes, so I suspect the argument will
| continue to be "too ugly for too little gain in coding ease".
| Especially since as soon as you really do need a multiline def, it
| only costs you one line to declare the function normally, and you
| don't get funny indentation:
| 
| def foo(arg2):
|     self.update(arg2)
|     return arg2*2
| func(arg1, foo)

Besides being a succinct syntax, what is essential about the lambda
construct is that it doesn't introduce a name.  I don't have to find
a name, nor do I have to worry about name collisions, nor to I have
to worry that the function is being used somewhere else.  

Cheers,

Clark


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct 22 03:12:49 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 00:12:49 -0700
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
	exception
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
	<cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<2e37dc1.0410201242.9bca574@posting.google.com>
	<ROXdd.8976$SW3.2862@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410212312.4268147d@posting.google.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<ROXdd.8976$SW3.2862 at fed1read01>...
> But how much simpler
> 
> logging.want("%(string)s and the %(number)d dwarves",
>                  string="Snow White", number=7)
> 

logging.want? ;-)

Well, it was a trivial example. In real use cases, the dict would be a
variable rather than a literal. The problem with using kwargs is that
it could interfere with keyword arguments passed to the logging method
(currently only exc_info, but there may be others in future).

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Oct 27 14:16:09 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:16:09 +0200
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.27.19.25.09.807563@jerf.org>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<2u9hklF24n4b1U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<T82dnedQ8YiFBuLcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>
	<z6Nfd.755$K7.388@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<pan.2004.10.27.19.25.09.807563@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <417FE5E9.90603@v.loewis.de>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:09:51 +0000, Neil Hodgson wrote:
> 
>>I would
>>love to be able to just renounce copyright on my work but it no longer
>>appears possible.
> 
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, nothing prevents you from doing that. 

In Germany, copyright law prevents you from doing that. There is no
notion of public domain (Gemeinfreiheit); this absence follows from
from ?29 UrhG. You simply continue to remain the Urheber (copyright
holder) of some work, no matter what you declare.

Regards,
Martin


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Oct  6 03:07:42 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 06 Oct 2004 09:07:42 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<UWt8d.3156$UP1.2886@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <tyffz4scojl.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> > _Most_ object-oriented languages support object orientation via the
> > message passing paradigm. Python included.
> 
> Translating the Smalltalk notation to Python -- what are
> the messages?  Is it that
> 
>    x.y(z)
> 
> means "send the __call__  (z)" message

instance(...) is syntactic sugar for instance.__call__(...) yes.

> to the result of the "z __getattr__ 'y'" message?

Yes, you could look at it that way, though it is not a particularly
helpful way of looking at it.

None of this takes away from the fact that the OO paradigm supported
by Python is called the message passing paradigm.

Some might argue that this is not the message passing paradigm, as (in
their opinion) the message passing paradigm mandates that _all_
interaction with the object be done via messages, and they might
(justifiably) argue that "x.y" is _not_ really a message.

But then, many would say that Python is not object-oriented at all, as
it does not have access restriction (enforced privacy).


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sat Oct  9 23:12:27 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:12:27 -0400
Subject: Init a table of functions
In-Reply-To: <4168A727.6050606@cloudthunder.com>
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>	<cka7q6$4u7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<4168A727.6050606@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <4168A89B.3070508@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>>
>>
>> Move the table outside of the class definition
>>
>> class foo(object):
>>     def f1():
>>         print 'f1'
>>     f1 = staticmethod(f1)
>>
>> foo.K = {'f1': foo.f1,
>>         }
>>
>> foo.K['f1']()
>>
> Right Right Right.
> Notice how he added the "object" as an arg to class foo.

Now that I think of it some more, why did you add that object arg?  
That's not necessary.


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Tue Oct 12 05:52:46 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:52:46 +0100
Subject: Core dump with increased recursionlimit
In-Reply-To: <slrncmn6h5.739.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <slrncmn6h5.739.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <ckg9hk$727$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> I've just discovered that my python (Python 2.3.4 from debian package
> 2.3.4-1 running on debian testing x86 + linux 2.4.26) core dumps when
> I set recursionlimit very high and do lots of recursion.

Man goes to a doctor and says "Doctor, it hurts when I do this!" The 
doctor says, "Well, don't do that, then."

You might be interested in Stackless Python, which does not use the C 
stack. I believe you could recurse until you run out of heap space.

http://www.stackless.com/

> Which runs fine and shows I can have 256 MB of stack.  (Also the
> python core dump is only 6 MB)

Someone more knowledgable will have to explain this one for you <wink>.
--
Michael Hoffman


From torbenm at diku.dk  Fri Oct 29 03:58:37 2004
From: torbenm at diku.dk (Torben Ægidius Mogensen)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 09:58:37 +0200
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7z7jpaez0y.fsf@pc-032.diku.dk>

Ajay <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> writes:

> is there an authoritative source on the performance of scripting languages
> such as python vs. something like java, c, c++.
>
> its for a report, so it would be awesome if i could quote some well-known
> authority on this.

You could use the "The Great Computer Language Shootout" at
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/craps.php .  It may give the
impression that you can't trust the numbers it gives, but I believe
this is mainly because it is more honest than the majority of other
language comparisons.  The main problem with this test is that the
benchmark programs are fairly small, so the results may not be
representative of large programs.

	Torben


From Anna at nospam.invalid  Sun Oct  3 19:17:15 2004
From: Anna at nospam.invalid (Ann)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 23:17:15 GMT
Subject: newbie permission problem
References: <wAL7d.99503$wV.12017@attbi_s54> <7sN7d.593248$gE.589623@pd7tw3no>
	<PUN7d.296691$mD.66455@attbi_s02>
	<azO7d.404372$8_6.311894@attbi_s04>
	<fu-dnWwayaoxGv3cRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <%L%7d.104952$wV.76593@attbi_s54>


"Peter L Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:fu-dnWwayaoxGv3cRVn-qg at powergate.ca...
> Ann wrote:
> > I found the problem just now, the file is still open when I tried
> > to delete it. If I use
> >
> > fp = open("filename.jpg", "rb")
> > im = Image.open(fp)
> >
> > then I can close fp and delete the file.
> >
> > How can I just use
> > im = Image.open("filename.jpg")
> > without having to use a fp
>
> I would ask why you would want to do it without using
> an "fp".  The fp solution is more readable (to another
> programmer, that is), more portable, and besides, it
> works, so why look for a possibly more complicated
> alternative just to avoid using "fp"?

Probably cuz I'm new to python and I saw an example in
the documentation that did it without fp. As you say,
fp makes more sense and I am using it now.




From srijit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 30 00:26:20 2004
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 21:26:20 -0700
Subject: XMLObject
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0410292026.19bef766@posting.google.com>

Hello,
There are two different XMLObject Projects

1) http://xmlobject.sourceforge.net/
2) http://xmlobject.base-art.net/

This is confusing.

Regards,
Srijit


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 13:57:06 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:57:06 -0300
Subject: Problem with the readline library for Win32
Message-ID: <864d3709041013105735c6ae4b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Sorry to post it here, but I searched the sourceforge site for a
proper list and could not find any. I'm having a few issues with the
Gary Bishop's readline package for Win32; the main one is that
accented characters do not work as expected. I would like to know if
anyone else experienced this problems, and also if there is a better
forum to post this question.

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX  Thu Oct  7 06:47:19 2004
From: zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX (Zunbeltz Izaola)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 12:47:19 +0200
Subject: handle a log file.
Message-ID: <cth7jq2pzyg.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>


Hi,

I've a GUI program (wxPython) that comunicates with a machine with UDP
sockets. Every sended socket is writted to file for inspection if
there is problem. What ocurs is that sometimes the file grows to much
(32Mb) and the program has problems to manage it. Is any way to
control the size of the file?

Thanks in advance

Zunbeltz

-- 
Zunbeltz Izaola Azkona                    |  wmbizazz at lg dot ehu
dotes
Materia Kondentsatuaren Fisika Saila      |
Zientzia eta Teknologia Fakultatea        |  Phone: 34946015326
Euskal Herriko Unibertsitatea             |   
PK 644                                    |  Fax:   34 944648500
48080 Bilbo (SPAIN)                       |


From anna at aleax.it  Mon Oct  4 09:56:52 2004
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Martelli Ravenscroft)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:56:52 GMT
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4239.1096896657.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.4231.1096844832.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4edc17eb.0410040223.4aa4f24b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4239.1096896657.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <EEc8d.36474$75.1808394@news3.tin.it>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> On 4 Oct 2004 03:23:32 -0700, Michele Simionato
> <michele.simionato at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>Notice that there already valuable resources on this stuff.
>>Unfortunately, after several minutes of searching on www.python.org
>>I didn't find them (which may denote that something is wrong with me
>>or with python.org). Search for new style classes,
>>Shalab <last name which spelling I cannot remember> and may be
>>even Dave Kuhlman <where the spelling is probably wrong>.
> 
> 
> I've read all the tutorials and resources pointed there from the Wiki
> as a starting point. All do a good job (some better than others) at
> explaining a lot of the technical issues. In fact, I've read both
> articles you and David Mertz have written, and found them great. The
> standard documentation is unfortunately up to this standard -- I've
> tried to find comprehensive references for it inside Python's
> reference manuals to no avail. This is something that really needs to
> be done there.
> 
> But the problem, in my particular case, was not with metaclasses per
> se, but with understanding the 'big picture'. With all respect for
> you, David Mertz, Alex Martelli, and all the others who helped to
> guide me through this (steep) learning curve -- you've done a great
> job, and I have to thank you all -- but most of the documentation
> seems to start 'from the inside'; in other words, from the perspective
> of someone that thoroughly understands how Python works, specially
> regarding the handling of declarations (classes, modules and
> functions), and that also knows what metaclasses are good for. For
> people that come from a different background (such as me), some of the
> explanations fail to 'ring a bell', which usually only happens after a
> lot of practical attempts and failures.

<snip>

> 
> It may be the case that, as I work more with metaclasses, I will tend
> towards a more natural vision of the process, and some of the nuances
> that are now relevant to me may become a thing of the past. But I
> think that I'm not alone on this, and that is the real problem faced
> by many newcomers to Python. 


It's even harder for a person coming to Python as a first programming 
language. Most technical documentation (not just with Python but with, 
for example, Linux) assumes that you already understand the topic at 
hand, just need a clarification of how-to. More explanation about 
"why-to" and "what does it mean" and underlying "how do I usefully think 
about this" is really helpful (in carefully measured doses... :-)

It's unfortunately common that people who understand the topic 
thoroughly (in any field, not just computers) don't think about the 
details consciously anymore, so it isn't that they *choose* not to 
mention it - it simply never occurs to them to mention it, because they 
"just know". This is a common issue in Training - the subject matter 
experts often are too "deep" in their subject to be able to explain it 
well to newbies.

I give a lot of credit to many of the folks in Python - at least they 
care whether they're getting across to newcomers. Some do better than 
others at explaining, but all of them seem to care. They *want* to know 
when something isn't clear and *why* so they can *fix* it! (Unlike my 
initial experience with some computer areas many years ago, where anyone 
who couldn't figure it out on their own was accused of being too stoopid 
to waste time on...)

Anna



From andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de  Thu Oct  7 11:02:24 2004
From: andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de (Andreas Lobinger)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:02:24 +0200
Subject: 'local' var in module
Message-ID: <ck3lq0$egb$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Aloha,

i'm i little bit confused by the following behaviour...

lobingera at sibyl: cat flip.py
import random

paras = { 'flength' : 22,
           'cset' : 'abcdefghijkl' }
rstate = 1

def f():
    random.seed(rstate)
    s = list()

    for i in range(paras['flength']):
       s.append(random.choice(paras['cset']))

    return "".join(s)

def g():
    random.seed(rstate)
    s = list()

    for i in range(paras['flength']):
       s.append(random.choice(paras['cset']))

    rstate = random.getseed()
    return "".join(s)

I try to save the state of the random module locally in flip.
I also have other parameters (paras) in the module.

lobingera at sibyl: python
Python 2.2.2 (#3, Apr 10 2003, 17:06:52)
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import flip
 >>> flip.f()
'akdkdgkaiflieafceagele'
 >>> flip.f()
'akdkdgkaiflieafceagele'
 >>> flip.g()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "flip.py", line 17, in g
     random.seed(rstate)
UnboundLocalError: local variable 'rstate' referenced before assignment
 >>> flip.f()
'akdkdgkaiflieafceagele'
 >>>
Somehow 'rstate' is readable in f, but not in g, but paras is?

Wishing a happy day
		LOBI


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Sun Oct 24 16:46:12 2004
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:46:12 -0700
Subject: Mindboggling Scope Issue
Message-ID: <200410241346.12230.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

Hello All,

I originally posted this to the help list, but I wanted to try a broader 
audience. Its so bizarre, that it may take some discourse to understand what 
is going on.

Far below are two alternative methods I have made inside a class. In "method1" 
I create a name called "passWindow.result" and use it in the "ok()" function. 
In "method2", I simply call this name "result".

Matt Cowles gave this explanation:
> The important difference is that you assign to the variable result
> later in the function. If a variable isn't assigned to in a function,
> Python looks for it in enclosing namespaces:

If I understand Matt's answer, "ask_for_password(self,message)", should be the 
enclosing namespace for "ok()".  So I am still confused: notice how I defined 
"passWindow" on the line preceding the "result=None" (method2) or 
"passWindow.result=None" (method1) statments. I haven't defined "passWindow" 
before I defined it in the "get_password(self)" method, i.e. "passWindow", 
like "result" and "passWindow.result", is not part of the global name space 
or any other enclosing namespace beyond the "get_password(self)" method.

Testing Matt's explanation, I began a fresh CLI session (using the same python 
executable used for my program). The session is cut and pasted from my 
terminal:

% python
Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40)
[GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def outer():
...   def inner():
...     print bob
...   bob = "wuzzup?"
...   inner()
...
>>> outer()
wuzzup?

This works as I expect and in accord with Matt's explanation and the Laws of 
Common Sense, but it appears to be entirely inconsistent with the behavior of 
"method2" below. Thus, I am completely bewildered.

I have pasted the methods below (sorry they are so long, but I didn't want 
to alter them--maybe clues lie within).

-----

    # method1
    #####################################################################
    # get_password(self)
    #####################################################################
    def ask_for_password(self, message):
      def cancel():
        passWindow.destroy()
      def ok():
        # WORKS FINE!
        print passWindow.result
        pw = passEntry.get()
        if len(pw):
          passWindow.result = pw
        passWindow.destroy()
      message = "\n" + message + "\n"
      # make a new top level for the pass window
      passWindow = Toplevel(self.get_mainWindow())
      passWindow.result = None
      # title it something meaningful
      passWindow.title("passerby - Password Entry")
      # - will use the main view (view #0) to own the password entry
      #   this will help the user remember what he's doing
      # - need to show the main view
      self.get_mainWindow().deiconify()
      # - set ownership of the passWindow to main view
      passWindow.transient(self.get_mainWindow())
      # setting the geometry of the passWindow
      # pass_x = anEvent.x_root - 50
      # pass_y = anEvent.y_root - 50
      passWindow.geometry("400x180+50+50")
      # - don't let user change our beautiful window
      passWindow.resizable(0,0)
      # the entry label and field
      passLabel = Label(passWindow, text=message)
      passEntry = Entry(passWindow)
      passEntry.configure(width=48)
      passEntry.config(show="*")
      passEntry.bind("<Return>",ok)
      cancelButton = Button(passWindow, text="Cancel", command=cancel)
      okButton = Button(passWindow, text="OK", command=ok)
      passLabel.pack()
      passEntry.pack()
      cancelButton.pack()
      okButton.pack()
      passEntry.focus_set()
      passWindow.grab_set()
      self.get_tk().wait_window(passWindow)
      return passWindow.result

-----

    # method2
    #####################################################################
    # get_password(self)
    #####################################################################
    def ask_for_password(self, message):
      def cancel():
        passWindow.destroy()
      def ok():
        # GETS ERROR!
        print result
        pw = passEntry.get()
        if len(pw):
          passWindow.result = pw
        passWindow.destroy()
      message = "\n" + message + "\n"
      # make a new top level for the pass window
      passWindow = Toplevel(self.get_mainWindow())
      result = None
      # title it something meaningful
      passWindow.title("passerby - Password Entry")
      # - will use the main view (view #0) to own the password entry
      #   this will help the user remember what he's doing
      # - need to show the main view
      self.get_mainWindow().deiconify()
      # - set ownership of the passWindow to main view
      passWindow.transient(self.get_mainWindow())
      # setting the geometry of the passWindow
      # pass_x = anEvent.x_root - 50
      # pass_y = anEvent.y_root - 50
      passWindow.geometry("400x180+50+50")
      # - don't let user change our beautiful window
      passWindow.resizable(0,0)
      # the entry label and field
      passLabel = Label(passWindow, text=message)
      passEntry = Entry(passWindow)
      passEntry.configure(width=48)
      passEntry.config(show="*")
      passEntry.bind("<Return>",ok)
      cancelButton = Button(passWindow, text="Cancel", command=cancel)
      okButton = Button(passWindow, text="OK", command=ok)
      passLabel.pack()
      passEntry.pack()
      cancelButton.pack()
      okButton.pack()
      passEntry.focus_set()
      passWindow.grab_set()
      self.get_tk().wait_window(passWindow)
      return result

-- 
James Stroud, Ph.D.
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
611 Charles E. Young Dr. S.
MBI 205, UCLA 951570
Los Angeles CA 90095-1570
http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Tue Oct 19 13:33:03 2004
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:33:03 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <41754fe1$0$44101$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

"Jonathan Ellis" <jbellis at gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1098195361.960550.257070 at z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
<..snip...>
> Almost four years ago I started working at a company with about 500
> kloc of Java code.  Thanks largely to tool support I was able to get in
> and start fixing bugs my first day (this is without significant prior
> Java experience).  A more-experienced co-worker pointed me in the right
> direction, and the IDE did the rest.  ("Find definition," "Find
> references.")  Grep can do much the same thing, but painfully slowly --
> and inaccurately, when you have a bunch of interfaces implementing the
> same method names.  Even after years in the codebase, I still used
> these heavily; the codebase grew to about 800 kloc during the 3 years I
> worked there.  Developers came and went; even if my memory were good
> enough to remember all the code _I_ ever wrote, I'd still have to
> periodically repeat the familiarization process with code written by
> others.
>
The point you make is that good tooling is important. I worked 12 years ago
in a large Objective-C environment. The same static versus dynamic wars were
raging at that time (Objective-C vs C++). I fully agree that good toold make
quite a difference. Most often very simple tools can do wonders. The dynamic
nature of Objective-C made also dynamic tools feasible, with an amazing
small extension. The run-time instrumentation proved at least as powerful,
as the compile time tools. Nowadays the same code is ported to Java, but
unfortunately the same powerful instrumentation is lost.
<...snip>
> -Jonathan

Contrary to your believe I would jump into larger scale Python development
without hesistation. However, I would introduce a few naming conventions to
support the static tool part.

kind regards, Gerrit
<www.extra.research.philips.com/ natlab/sysarch/>

--
Praktijk voor Psychosociale therapie Lia Charit?
<www.liacharite.nl>





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct  4 11:48:28 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:48:28 -0500
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
In-Reply-To: <20041004150717.29723.831210876.divmod.quotient.9628@ohm>
References: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
	<20041004150717.29723.831210876.divmod.quotient.9628@ohm>
Message-ID: <20041004154827.GB2593@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 03:07:17PM +0000, exarkun at divmod.com wrote:
>   Responding to "replacing them by a single 'x' that suffices for everything":
>   No, it doesn't.
>   It replaces them with an arbitrary number of string delimiters.  'x'
> is one, but 'y' is another, 'Would you like some spam?' is yet
> another.  You must still be careful in selecting your delimiter,
> lest you accidentally use one included in your string literal.  The
> chances of doing so are greatly decreased, but they are still
> non-zero.
>   The idea doesn't seem all bad, but it doesn't seem like a great
> enough improvement to justify very nearly breaking every Python
> program ever written in dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of
> different places.
>   Jp

Ouch.  You're right.  Here's another program whose meaning changes
radically with mandis-quotes:

    print '-' * 72
    do_the_real_work()
    print '-' * 72

Any program that contains the same double-quoted string twice would change
meaning under this proposal.

On the other hand, does this program have any meaning left?
    print 'x'
it must be an unterminated mandis-quoted string.

OK, shoot this proposal right now.

Jeff
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From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Tue Oct 12 11:08:29 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:08:29 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <mailman.4751.1097589011.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416bf372$0$15208$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>

<exarkun at divmod.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:mailman.4751.1097589011.5135.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:08:46 +0200, "Nicolas Lehuen" <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote:
> > [snip]
> > 
> > Yeah I know this. My point was that when benchmarking single-threaded
> > programs vs multithreaded ones, you have to choose the kind of program
> > you use : CPU-intensive vs IO-intensive. On a single CPU machine,
> > CPU-intensive program will always run better in a single-threaded model.
> > But of course, if you have 2 procs and a nice threading model, you can
> > even do 2 CPU-intensive tasks simultaneously, which Python cannot do if
> > I've understood everything so far.
> 
>   The way to do this is to write an extension module, implement your CPU-intensive tasks, and release the GIL around it.  You can argue that this is not "in Python", but it is possible, widely practiced, supported by the language, developer community, and existing APIs, and lets you adjust Python's threading behavior _specific to your application_, rather than requiring every Python program written by every Python programmer comply with your wishes for the language.
> 
>   Jp

And then I have to tackle all these ugly INCREFs and DECREFs and forget about using a marvellous language. I'm sorry but if I switched from Java to Python, it's not to write C again. I did, though, since I wrote a ternary search tree in C with a SWIG interface to Python, but I won't do it again if I can help it.

Building a language is about bringing a service to the developers. Every language has its limitations, but since it has been proved that other language can handle threading more gracefully, I think the question can be opened without being deferred to another language which is NOT very kind to developers (putting the obligatory "I'm a C h4cker" snobbery aside).

I want to write Python extensions in D !

Regards,
Nicolas



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Oct 21 11:25:30 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:25:30 -0300
Subject: Matrix (list-in-list), how to get a column?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7AAA@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Arvid Andersson]

#- Is there a more elegant solution than this?
#- 
#- col1 = []
#- col2 = []
#- for i in range(len(data)):
#-   col1 += [a[i][0]]
#-   col2 += [a[i][1]]

>>> data = [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]]
>>> [x[0] for x in data]
[1, 3, 5]
>>> [x[1] for x in data]
[2, 4, 6]
>>> 

.	Facundo
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From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Mon Oct 11 19:44:45 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:44:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python to Python communication
References: <Xns957F95400C53Ecpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
	<pan.2004.10.11.13.58.44.349079@thomas-guettler.de>
	<sKxad.33170$Z14.12742@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <Xns958011CB2BD24cpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in

[Thomas Guettler]
>> Peer to peer: There is no central server. All can talk to each other.
>> The problem is: How to find the other? If there are on one computer

Yes, considering my challenge "peer to peer" would fit best 
>
> Or use a peer-to-peer library that has solved all of those problems
> already 
> 
> http://www.python.org/other/spread/

Yeah, spread looks beautifull from it's documentation. But I failed in 
setting up ... the python-module is prepared for spread 3.16.4, actual is 
3.17.2, which has total different librarynames to start with ... so 

python setup.py build --compiler=mingw32 fails badly when trying to link.

Has someone succeeded in doing a windows build for python 2.3.4 and spread 
3.17.2 ??? I would be very thankfull for a howto or a spread.pyd :)

Harald


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Fri Oct  8 08:06:48 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:06:48 -0400
Subject: Establishing a p2p connection in python
In-Reply-To: <a50cee44.0410080026.30cf04f0@posting.google.com>
References: <a50cee44.0410080026.30cf04f0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416682D8.2000302@bellsouth.net>

gs wrote:

>Hi!
>
>This is my first time posting to a newsgroup so please be gentle to me
>:)
>
>  
>
Welcome.  You have little to fear from this crowd.

>Introduction to my problem:
>
>  
>
<snip>
I think that your problem can be solved with Twisted.  That is _a_ 
solution.  Not the only, maybe not the best for everything you're 
wanting to do (which it seems that learning a lot is important to you), 
but _a_ solution.  It's got a bit of a learning curve to wrap your head 
around how everything fits together, but it's a powerful framework.  
I've used it less than I plan to, but I've got some interest in how it 
works.

>Problems:
>1) I've written a threaded server that stores information about
>connected servers in a "container class". This class holds information
>about username, a unique ID, the connecting adress and the actual
>socket. I have not been able to find any information online on how i
>could go about to connect two sockets. It would seem like the socket
>is already "occupied" since it is connected to the server. Could one
>duplicate, or otherwise get a dedicated socket for sending binary
>data, to one connected socket from another? A few pointers and/or tips
>would be greatly appreciated!
>  
>
Are you talking about your server binding two different ports?  If you 
are using the Python standard SocketServer, you should be able to just 
spin off a thread for each server you start and tell it to 
serve_forever() (or what have you).  If you're using Twisted, I think 
all you would need to do is factory.listenTCP(<port number>, <factory>), 
then reactor.run().  I'll leave getting data between the different ports 
you've bound as an exercise for the reader.

>2) I've also failed to find python specific information on how abouts
>one would do file resuming. I would think that you, somehow, use
>md5-checksums to check file status and somehow skip the first part of
>the datastream. Also, pointers and maybe an explanation in (short)
>pseudo-code would be much appreciated.
>  
>
Can't help you here, sorry.

>3) Is this too big of a project for a novice programmer such as
>myself? I do want to go through with this since it's a genuine
>problem, but i do not know if i'm ready. I'm not a "quitter" per say,
>but i'm afraid doing something TOO advanced in the beginning might be
>overwhelming :)
>  
>
I don't think this is too big at all.  But I do think you'll want to 
break it down a little bit and set smaller goals for yourself.  Try to 
first get the smallest fairly usable thing working.  Then you can start 
adding functionality from there.

>Thanks for reading,
>gs
>  
>
HTH,


Jeremy Jones


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 23:27:43 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 20:27:43 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<_aadnTCr7PWKYeHcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410251927.38347d92@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<_aadnTCr7PWKYeHcRVn-rg at powergate.ca>...
 
> Do you feel strongly enough about the quality of your code to write
> automated tests for it?  Or are you just hoping that one tiny class
> of potential bugs will be caught for you by this feature of the
> language?

1)catching overflow bugs in the language itself frees u from writing
overflow tests.
2)no test (or test suite) can catch all errors, so language support 4
error detection is welcome.
3)overflow detection helps when u dont have automated tests 4 a
particular part of your program.

> I'm not sure what you're asking, because even the exposure of
> latent bugs which you are describing can happen only when you
> *run* the code.

Agreed. i'm saying that without int/long unification, the bugs will b
found sooner & closer to where they occur, rather than propagating
throughout the program's objects & being found far away from the
source, if at all.

-kartik


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Oct 14 19:10:34 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:10:34 -0700
Subject: Artifical Life - a job for someone else
References: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>
	<416C68C9.F3271A1C@alcyone.com>
	<6f402501.0410141410.4dff0100@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416F076A.5244CF32@alcyone.com>

Michael Foord wrote:

> Wow - this is impressive.
> CAGE works great in this version of curses.

Yes, he did a fine job.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Nature likes to hide herself.
    -- Heraclitus


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Thu Oct 21 00:38:04 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 04:38:04 GMT
Subject: WxHTML
Message-ID: <20041021003804.16183.00000900@mb-m01.aol.com>

I have a quick question, I've noticed that some pages display with unusual gaps
in them in a wxHTML window, and these pages don't contain anything unusual
javascript....etc.  Is the WxIEWINDOW or whatever it's called better for this? 
Or is there something I can do to stop this from happening.  I've copied the
html code and ran it in Mozilla and IE and it shows fine.  I know that there
are limitations in what wxhtml can do, so is this just something I have to
accept when using it?


From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 18 07:17:36 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 04:17:36 -0700
Subject: Poll script in Python
References: <81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9418be08.0410180317.33ba11e6@posting.google.com>

export at hope.cz (Lad) wrote in message news:<81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f at posting.google.com>...
> Is there a poll script available in Python?


Sure!


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 29 14:28:24 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:28:24 -0700
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
In-Reply-To: <rowen-643489.15583428102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <8249c4ac.0410281110.39d68dc2@posting.google.com>
	<rowen-643489.15583428102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20041029112702.0BD6.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Russell E. Owen" <rowen at cesmail.net> wrote:
> - quote the path in '"..."' (single quotes on the outside; no other form 
> of double quoting I tried worked). Fails on Windows.

Which windows?  It works for me on both 2k and XP (though I'm not
running ds9):
>>> os.popen3('"C:\\Program Files\\WinImage\\winimage.exe"')
(<open file '"C:\Program Files\WinImage\winimage.exe"', mode 'w' at 0x007E7AE0>,
 <open file '"C:\Program Files\WinImage\winimage.exe"', mode 'r' at 0x007EC2E0>,
 <open file '"C:\Program Files\WinImage\winimage.exe"', mode 'r' at 0x007EC360>)


 - Josiah



From pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk  Tue Oct 19 08:46:48 2004
From: pclinch at internet-glue.co.uk (Paul Clinch)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 05:46:48 -0700
Subject: htmldata and python 2.2
References: <ckmjth$i26$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
Message-ID: <8cf2994e.0410190446.76e15333@posting.google.com>

"Tim Arnold" <tiarno at sas.com> wrote in message news:<ckmjth$i26$1 at license1.unx.sas.com>...
> the htmldata module looks just like what I need, but it's for Python 2.3,
> and  I'm stuck at Python 2.2 (using HP ux10.10)
> 
> Is anyone using this module with Python 2.2?
> I see that it's using the new 2.3 additions to shlex, and I don't know if  I
> can (or how-to) use some workaround.
> 
> any suggestions or pointers appreciated.
> 
> thanks in advance,
> --Tim Arnold

In fact it doesn't appear to use shlex at all. Converting the
enumerate function to zip( range( len(l) ), l ) all the unit tests are
passed with python 2.2.3. A simple diff. follows:-

138c138
<   for (j, (a, b)) in zip( range( len(_IGNORE_TAGS) ), _IGNORE_TAGS
):
---
>   for (j, (a, b)) in enumerate(_IGNORE_TAGS):
396c396
<   for (i, text) in zip( range( len(L) ), L ):
---
>   for (i, text) in enumerate(L):
829c829
<     for (i, item) in zip( range( len(L) ), L ):
---
>     for (i, item) in enumerate(L):


Regards, Paul Clinch


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 03:18:51 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:18:51 +0200
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Ganesan R <rganesan at myrealbox.com> wrote:
   ...
> That aside, I am wondering if it isn't time to push ctypes for inclusion
> into the standard Python distribution. Too late for Python 2.4, but how
> about Python 2.5?

Seconded!  Python 2.5 should be mostly about standard-library
enhancements, and ctypes would be a huge enhancement to Python's stdlib.


Alex


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Oct  6 13:39:15 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 06 Oct 2004 13:39:15 -0400
Subject: Database Connectivity
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
	<0348m0lpigktdp0rf1i6742c5kt1an9fv6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uekkb4ugs.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:

> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 04:48:40 GMT, Dennis Lee Bieber
> <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
> 
> 	Talking to myself... <G>
> > 
> > 	Access, itself, is merely a GUI builder front-end. You are
> > likely using M$ JET as the database engine.
> > 
> 	"Likely" as the newer Access versions (Office2000+) can be used
> as a front-end for M$ SQL Server/MSDE (I can't recall if MSDE was
> supplied with O2000 Premium, it was with VB6 Pro).
> 
> (MSDE being sort of a single-user SQL Server development engine --
> limited to ~2GB per database, like JET is, and to only 5 concurrent
> queries)

If I recall correctly, it's not actually limited to 5 concurrent
connections, but there is a performance limiter that kicks in after
that point to slow it down :-)

But it has something to do with active requests, so I believe you
could have any number of connections, and probably not hit performance
issues unless more than 5 of them were actively trying to do something
at the same time.

-- David


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 15:07:25 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 19:07:25 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5442.1098730521.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417d4eed$0$1334$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-25, Charles Hixson <charleshixsn at earthlink.net> wrote:

>>>Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
>>>in site-packages) in an application.
>>
>>I'd say everything that uses a GPL'd module is derived work and must also be
>>GPL'd. It doesn't matter how you distribute it. If the module is under the
>>LGPL you could use it in a closed source app but must make available any
>>changes to the original module.
>
> I don't think that's correct.  If you distribute the source, then I 
> don't think that you need to GPL the code (and if you GPL the code, you 
> *must* distribute the source anyway...so....).
>
> The thing is, the source, although it depends on the GPL code to execute 
> is not itself linked to the GPL code. 

This is equally true of a .pyc file that will require a GPL'd
module at runtime.

> It tells you (in the import statement) that you'll need it,
> but that's a different matter.  You might just want to study
> how some part of it worked.
>
> I doubt that this is much help to you though.  Usually when
> people ask such a question it's because they intend to
> distribute a closed source version, and I don't think you can
> do that.  (But don't take my advice as a certainty.  I'm quite
> biased in favor of the GPL.)

The simplest thing to do is to just tell py2exe to install the
source code as well -- until the questions about "why my
modified souce code doesn't work" start arriving.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Now that we're
                                  at               in LOVE, you can BUY
                               visi.com            this GOLDFISH for a 48%
                                                   DISCOUNT.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  3 04:37:12 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:37:12 +0200
Subject: How do you write this in python
References: <8f17f4bc.0410022000.e331cbe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gl2t09.1jme4qb1u6375bN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Ali <alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> function PrintCard() {
   ...
> }
> function Card(name,email) {
>       this.name = name;
>       this.email = email;
>       this.PrintCard = PrintCard;
> }
   ...
> ali = new Card("Ali", "alik at alik.com");
> zainab = new Card("Zainab", "zainab at zainab.com");
   ...
> The script in this page, has a function (Card) that is used to create
> an object with its own properties and methods (ali and zainab in this
> script). I was wondering if this was possible in python.

Sure, though we'd normally use a class statement instead:

class Card:
    def __init__(self, name, email):
        self.name = name
        self.email = email
    def PrintCard(self):
        ''' whatever... '''

ali = Card('Ali, 'alik at alik.com')
zainab = Card('Zainab', 'zainab at zainab.com')


If for some weird reason you're keen to make Card a factory function
rather than a class, that can be arranged, too.  But the normal way in
Python is just to use and define classes.


Alex


From Anna at nospam.invalid  Sun Oct  3 15:11:51 2004
From: Anna at nospam.invalid (Ann)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 19:11:51 GMT
Subject: newbie permission problem
References: <wAL7d.99503$wV.12017@attbi_s54> <7sN7d.593248$gE.589623@pd7tw3no>
	<PUN7d.296691$mD.66455@attbi_s02>
	<azO7d.404372$8_6.311894@attbi_s04>
	<21064255.0410030852.34c732cf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <X9Y7d.163228$MQ5.23824@attbi_s52>


"Peter Abel" <PeterAbel at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:21064255.0410030852.34c732cf at posting.google.com...
> "Ann" <Anna at nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:<azO7d.404372$8_6.311894 at attbi_s04>...
> > "Ann" <Anna at nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:PUN7d.296691$mD.66455 at attbi_s02...
> > >
> > > "Sol Mumey" <smumeyyahoocom at add.dots> wrote in message
> > > news:7sN7d.593248$gE.589623 at pd7tw3no...
> > > > Ann wrote:
> > > > > I am new to python. I have a small program that
> > > > > deletes small jpeg files, but I am getting a
> > > > > permission error, even though I am the owner of the
> > > > > file and the directory has 777 permission. I have
> > > > > WIN XP Pro. I have mks toolkit "ls" command.
> > > > > Login name is "Philip"
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------
> > > > >
> > > > > 36      45      border_l_r2_c3.gif is tiny      <- printed by
program
> > > > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > > > >   File "C:\test2.py", line 28, in ?
> > > > >     os.remove(d) # delete the tiny files
> > > > > OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'border_l_r2_c3.gif'
> > > > >
> > > > > C:\>ls -ld . border_l_r2_c3.gif
> > > > > drwxrwsrwx   1 Philip   None     0 Oct  2 23:40 .
> > > > > -rwxrwxrwa   1 Philip   None   398 Oct  2 22:42 border_l_r2_c3.gif
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Are you sure that the unix-style permission reported by ls are
> > > > reflecting the true permissions (and read only attribute) on the
file.
> > > > We use Cygwin at work, at the permissions reported by ls, etc. are
> > > > meaningless with our installation (though that need not be the case
with
> > > > Cygwin). From the commandline I think you can check/set this with
> > > > attrib.exe, if a bunch need to be checked/changed.
> > >
> > > Yes, I'm not so sure about the output of "ls" myself. (note the 'a'
> > > where I would expect an 'x' for the file) I did try the
> > > attrib command, but it only showed that the directory is "system"
> > > and the file is "archive". Also, I created the file via under my
> > > account (ls shows owner = Philip) and I can delete it manually with
> > > "rm" or "del" or with a perl script just fine. I also tried using
> > > "os.unlink(d)" with the same results. I found another command
> > > lsacl to list the access control list, it gives this: (YOGA is my
> > > workstation name)
> > >
> > > C:\>lsacl border-l-r2-c3.gif
> > > border-l-r3-c3[1].gif:
> > >  ACE: Allow YOGA\Philip            -
> > > R,W,X,A,DC,RE,WE,RA,WA,D,RC,WD,O,S
> > >  ACE: Allow NT+AUTHORITY\SYSTEM    -
> > > R,W,X,A,DC,RE,WE,RA,WA,D,RC,WD,O,S
> > >  ACE: Allow BUILTIN\Administrators -
> > > R,W,X,A,DC,RE,WE,RA,WA,D,RC,WD,O,S
> > >
> >
> > I found the problem just now, the file is still open when I tried
> > to delete it. If I use
> >
> > fp = open("filename.jpg", "rb")
> > im = Image.open(fp)
> >
> > then I can close fp and delete the file.
> >
> > How can I just use
> > im = Image.open("filename.jpg")
> > without having to use a fp
>
> The following works for me though it's a long way round:
> >>> jpeg='filename.jpg'
> >>> import cStringIO
> >>> im=Image.open(cStringIO.StringIO(file(jpeg,'rb').read()))
> >>> os.remove(jpeg)
> >>>
>
> I had expected that the following would work too, but it doesn't:
> >>> im=Image.open(file(jpeg,'rb'))
> >>> os.remove(jpeg)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'filename.jpg'
>
> My opinion is that Image.open( filepointer ) binds the filpointer-object
> to a name while StringIO doesn't and the garbagecollector will close the
file.
>
> BTW why do you open an imagefile when you want to delete it? If you want
to
> decide by view which imagefile should be deleted it would be good practice
> to open the imagefile, load the image and then close the file.
>
> Regards
> Peter

Peter, I only want to find out the dimensions of the file.
I have a huge number of jpg files and I want to automatically
delete the tiny ones.
Tnx for help.




From rtilley at vt.edu  Sat Oct 16 22:59:28 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:59:28 -0400
Subject: See when process exits in Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <cksmq8$c7$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cksmq8$c7$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <cksn6d$1b8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I posted the wrong function... here's the one that works:

def wait_for_ntbackup_to_exit(procname):
     while True:
         try:
             pids = win32pdhutil.FindPerformanceAttributesByName(procname)
             if len(pids) > 0:
                 ## If ntbackup is running, loop until it closes.
                 print pids
                 print len(pids)
                 print "ntbackup is running... waiting for it to exit."
                 continue
             else:
                 ## ntbackup is not running.
                 break
         except:
             return


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 07:53:35 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 04:53:35 -0700
Subject: quoting %
In-Reply-To: <863c0ihmz7.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
References: <863c0ihmz7.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
Message-ID: <1097668416.12092.54.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 13:32 +0200, Matthias Teege wrote:
> Moin,
> 
> I need a string like this "foo '%value%'" for a database query but
> print "'%%s%'"%value gives me TypeError: not all arguments converted
> during string formatting. How does I quote the "%" sign in this case?

You need to escape the extra percents:

print "'%%%s%%'" % value

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 13 08:15:44 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 05:15:44 -0700
Subject: EVIL AMERICAN GOVT (aka FBI) is full of SADISTS and PERVERTS
References: <11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0@posting.google.com>
	<278de0e.0410101007.48dbb21e@posting.google.com>
	<FdOdnV7flNYAZfTcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <9418be08.0410130415.4df4815a@posting.google.com>

Peter L Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<FdOdnV7flNYAZfTcRVn-pQ at powergate.ca>...
> Neuruss wrote:
> > After reading carefully this message, I came to the conclusion that it
> > is a little bit off topic.
> 
> Other than the parts about "SADISTS and PERVERTS", what portion
> was *on* topic?  ;-)
> 
> -Peter

Bad joke! Let's NOT talk politics here. Let's talk programming.


From matt.price at utoronto.ca  Wed Oct 27 16:04:37 2004
From: matt.price at utoronto.ca (Matt Price)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:04:37 -0400
Subject: installing and uninstalling packages...
Message-ID: <20041027200437.GB496@utoronto.ca>


Hi,

I have two quick questions about managing packages:

1) I'm writing a simple module with which I would like to include a
couple of macros for the MoinMoin wiki system.  The files I want to
install are, say:

MainModule.py
ExtraFunctions.py

MoinMacro1.py
MoinMacro2.py

I'd like to install MainModule and ExtraFunctions as usual in the
local site-packages directory (on my debian system:
/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/).  As for the Moin  macros,
I'd like ot check somehow if MoinMoin is installed on the system, and
if it's installed, put the MoinMacro(1|2).py files in the moin macro
directory (again, on my system:
/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/MoinMoin/macro/).  Is there a way to
do this in setup.py?


2)  a more general question:  is there an accepted way to uninstall
packages once they've been installed?  I didn't notice documentation
on this feature in the manual.  

thanks much!

Matt


-------------------------------------------
Matt Price	    matt.price at utoronto.ca
History Department, University of Toronto
(416) 978-2094
--------------------------------------------

please don't use the following addresses:  zeus at derailleur.org
aardvark at derailleur.org


From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct  5 08:08:10 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:08:10 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<41622FEB.1000300@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004222013.ECC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4321.1096958551.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7lea32-egv.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.4321.1096958551.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Richard Blackwood  <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>>They can be useful, but they are a great way to introduce security
>>holes.
>>
>>  
>>
>Is that a limitation of the language (the security holes I mean)?
			.
			.
			.
I guess so.  'Depends on what "limitation" means to you.
It's an equal limitation of C that it's convenient for
device drivers, because device-driver construction is
inherently a perilous enterprise.


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 04:41:24 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 01:41:24 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <mailman.5538.1098846078.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clngtp$tat$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410270500.701ee156@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.10.27.19.15.09.392817@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410280041.427fef72@posting.google.com>

Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.27.19.15.09.392817 at jerf.org>...
> You have to understand, you're getting flack here because you are saying
> "I think things would break less if they broke more." That statement is
> not entirely indefensible, but when there's no reason for anything to
> break in the first place it is an odd thing to say and requires a lot more
> than raw assertion.

I got it.

-kartik


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Wed Oct 13 04:52:03 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:52:03 +0100
Subject: strange side effect with lists!?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4817.1097656352.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4817.1097656352.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckiqbp$j0a$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Wolfgang.Stoecher at profactor.at wrote:
> 
>>>>l1 = [1] # define list
>>>>l2 = l1  # copy of l1 ?

Nope, l2 is l1:

 >>> l2 is l1
True

The same happens for any mutable object.

If you want to just do a surface-level copy of l1, you can use l1[:]. 
But if any of the items in l1 are mutable objects, you probably want to 
use copy.deepcopy().
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Oct 28 07:40:16 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:40:16 +0200
Subject: Directly calling threaded class instance methods and attributes
References: <4d79c4d9.0410280228.53f9a328@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <clqlr6$g32$02$1@news.t-online.com>

> My question is simply, can anyone see any issues with calling methods
> and/or attributes of a threaded class instance like this?  It looks ok
> to me but, as the docs never seem to mention using threads like this,
> I'm wondering if I've missed something important.  If it helps, I
> know the basic considerations of threading, such as locking, exception
> handling and so on; I only really need advice on whether there could
> be issues with directly calling class instance attributes of a
> running thread.
> 
> If anyone could let me know either "Yeah, that's fine" or "NO!!! That
> can break <foo> / cause a deadlock in <bar> / etc!!!" I'd be much
> obliged.

Python is very therad-friendly in a way that you don't get SIGSEGVs for
doing this - that means that at least the internal data-structures are
alwasys consistent. As a rule of thumb one can say that every expression is
atomic, and thus leaves the interpreter in a consistent state. But beware!
This is more than one expression:

a = b + c * d

It could be rewritten like this:

h = c* d
a = b + h

which makes it at least two - maybe there are even more. But

l.append(10)

on a list will at least be atomic when the actual appending occurs - thus
its perfectly ok to have 10 workerthreads appending to one list, and one
consumer thread pop'ing values from it.

So your code is perfectly legal, and as long as you are aware that having
more complex operations on objects undergoing can be interrupted at any
time, maybe leaving data inconsistent _from and applications POV_ - then
you'll need explicid sync'ing, by locks, queues or whatever...

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From ed at leafe.com  Sun Oct 31 17:05:59 2004
From: ed at leafe.com (Ed Leafe)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:05:59 -0500
Subject: Faking out __name__ == __main__
Message-ID: <0BD56F12-2B89-11D9-949E-003065B11E84@leafe.com>

	I'm working on creating a generic runtime engine for the Dabo 
framework. Right now I'm focusing on Windows, since many of our 
potential users are running on that platform. I've got py2exe and Inno 
Setup running, so all that is well and good.

	My question concerns the ability to generically run scripts as if they 
were being run on an installed copy of Python. Many scripts have the 
following structure:

if __name__ == "__main__":
	method1()
	method2()
	...etc.
	methodN()

When such a script is run with the command 'python myscript.py', the 
various methods are called. However, when run with 'daborun 
myscript.py', (daborun is the name of the py2exe file), nothing gets 
executed, since when the call to 'myscript.py' is made, __name__ is now 
set to 'myscript', and the statements after the 'if __name__' test are 
never executed.

	I have several ways of working around this, such as requiring that all 
code after the 'if __name__' test be moved into a 'main()' method, and 
having daborun call the main() method, but it would *so* much cooler to 
be able to somehow fake out the value of __name__ when the call is made 
to the script. Is this something that might be possible, or is it so 
fundamental to the internals of Python that it can't be messed with?

      ___/
     /
    __/
   /
  ____/
  Ed Leafe
  http://leafe.com/
  http://dabodev.com/



From olli at haluter.fromme.com  Wed Oct 27 08:47:13 2004
From: olli at haluter.fromme.com (Oliver Fromme)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 12:47:13 GMT
Subject: using re: hitting recursion limit
References: <417eab49$1@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <2u9jmhF28fqn0U1@uni-berlin.de>

Erik Johnson <spam at nospam.org> wrote:
 >    I have done a fair amount of regular expression text processing in Perl,
 > and am currently trying to convert a running Perl script into Python (for a
 > number of reasons I won't go into here). I have not had any problems with
 > memory limits using Perl, but in trying to clip out a particular table from
 > a web page, I am hitting Python's recursion limit.
 > 
 > The RE is pretty simple:
 > 
 > pat = '(<table.*?%s.*?</table>)' % magic_string

Maybe the most efficient way is not ot use REs at all.

For example, one way would be to split the whole page on
the string "<table", strip off the closing "</table>" and
any stuff behind it, then look for the one containing your
magic_string.

   tables = [t.split("</table>", 1)[0] for t in page.split("<table")]
   for t in tables:
       if t.find(magic_string) >= 0:
           print t

There's one disadvantage:  If you have nested tables, this
approach will only handle the innermost tables correctly
(i.e. those which don't contain further tables).

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Konrad-Celtis-Str. 72, 81369 Munich, Germany

``All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream.''
(E. A. Poe)


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Thu Oct 28 05:13:46 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 02:13:46 -0700
Subject: Becoming Unicode Aware
References: <6f402501.0410270256.13cf5727@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0410280113.40cd8ced@posting.google.com>

fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) wrote in message news:<6f402501.0410270256.13cf5727 at posting.google.com>...
> My main problem with udnerstanding unicode is what to do with
> arbitrary text without an encoding specified. To the best of my
> knowledge the technical term for this situation is 'buggered'. E.g. I
> have a CGI guestbook script. Is the only way of knowing what encodign
> the user is typing in, to ask them ?

Generally speaking, you have to ask (either the user or the software).
 There's no reliable way to tell what encoding you're looking at
without someone or something telling you; you might be able to make a
heuristical guess, but that's it.


> Anyway - ConfigObj reads config files from plain text files. Is there
> a standard for specifying the encoding within the text file ? I know
> python scripts have a method - should I just use that ?

It's a good method if you expect people to be editing the config file
with Emacs.  It's a good enough method if you haven't any good reason
to use another method.


> Also - suppose I know the encoding, or let the programmer specify, is
> the following sufficient for reading the files in :
> 
> def afunction(setoflines, encoding='ascii'):
>     for line in setoflines:
>         if encoding:
>             line = line.decode(encoding)

For most encodings, this'll work fine.  But there are some encodings,
for example UTF-16, that won't work with it.  UTF-16 fails for two
reasons: the two-byte characters interfere with the line buffering,
and UTF-16 strings must be preceded by a two-byte code indicating
endianness, which would be at the beginning of the file but not of
each line.

Fortunately, most text files aren't in UTF-16.  I mention this so that
you are aware that, although afunction works in most cases, it is not
universal.

I believe it's the purpose of the StreamReader and StreamWriter
classes in the codecs module to deal with such situations.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 15:28:40 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:28:40 +0200
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8dkd.1mk43di1xi6v0dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4418.1097061910.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8lg2.axf8gd9hwlbmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4426.1097075121.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8zqv.1dppy3q143owj6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4432.1097082864.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl974b.16udnxv178bw8qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> > 1. You need to build an f = new.function(klass.my_code, globals()) in
> >    your classmethod that now erroneously does the exec above quoted (you
> >    could in fact do this in the metaclass, save the new function rather
> >    than the code object -- get the right globals via inspect).
> 
> That's the part that I was missing. It looks less 'hackish' than I had
> expect. I was really afraid that I would need to manage bytecode-level
> hacks myself. I am not as concerned about getting the right globals,
> though -- it's good enough if I'm able to supply whatever globals I
> need upon calling, I think (unless I'm _really_ missing something).

I don't think you're missing anything -- just DO consider that if you
pass your own globals they'll be used to solve every name that's not
local to the class body, e.g. a '__metaclass__ = metaname' assignment in
classbody (of course, you can finesse this by calling the metaclass
explicitly anyway;-).


> > 2. you need to obtain the needed dict, that's just  d = f()  in your
> >    method
> 
> There is still a question, but I think I already know the anwswer :-)
> If the class *has* a base class, it has to be passed as a parameter. I
> assume that i can simply call it like this: d=f(bases); or instead,
> that I can fill the argdefs in the new.function call. I'll try it
> later.

Nope, f doesn't get the bases AT ALL; the bases (as a tuple) go in only
when you call the metaclass.


> > 3. you can now call your metaclass with the appropriate bases and name:
> >        klas = self.__class__  # or cls if this is a classmethod;-)
> >        return type(klas)(klas.__name__, klas.__bases__, d)
> > 
> > voila, you're there.  This is all coded to minimize the need to have
> > this method located in a specific class -- as I said I think you
> > probably want to have this stuff in the metaclass (if you have a
> > metaclass at all), but, whatever.
> 
> Tehre are two reasons to do it in a metaclass: first, I tested it and
> it works (of sorts), while for some reason it wont work for a
> non-metaclasses enabled class. Also, because in this scenario there
> are other things that I already need to check, and a metaclass does it
> nicely.

OK, then, that's where you pass the bases in, not before.

> For now, I think I'll just be using the class-inside-a-def idiom. But

If it can give you all you need, that may be best.

> I'm still working around some design issues, and if the templating
> mechanism gets in the final production code (it's only one of a few
> competing designs), I'll surely try it again.

OK, keep us informed of developments, then!


Alex


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Thu Oct 28 06:03:00 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:03:00 +0200
Subject: TK: Ho to set window position
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5604.1098956353.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <3Gkdd.2134$Ag.1192@fe37.usenetserver.com>	<2u5oqmF27qhb2U1@uni-berlin.de>	<cll8u5$dt9$1@sea.gmane.org>	<mailman.5603.1098953471.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4180ba80$0$3632$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<mailman.5604.1098956353.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4180c216$0$3839$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

andrea valle wrote:
> Thanks a lot

You're welcome.

[snip]
> Could you please tell me where to find a complete reference for Tkinter? 
> Maybe from a Tk site?

An on-line version of the tcl/tk man pages is available here:
http://www.tcl.tk/man/

Fredrik Lundh's introduction to Tkinter is also quite comprehensive, and 
actually describes Tkinter, not tcl/tk; so you won't have to guess how the tcl 
commands were translated to Python methods:
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From nick at craig-wood.com  Wed Oct  6 09:30:09 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 06 Oct 2004 13:30:09 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<WOQ8d.32865$Z14.12045@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <slrncm7rmf.h60.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:
>  [Andreas Kostyrka]
>  > So basically you either get a really huge number of locks (one per
>  > object) with enough potential for conflicts, deadlocks and all the
>  > other stuff to make it real slow down the ceval.
>  >
>  > One could use less granularity, and lock say the class of the object
>  > involved, but that wouldn't help that much either.
>  >
>  > So basically the GIL is a design decision that makes sense, perhaps it
>  > shouldn't be just called the GIL, call it the "very large locking
>  > granularity design decision".
> 
>  Reading the above, one might be tempted to conclude that presence of the 
>  GIL in the cpython VM is actually a benefit, and perhaps that all 
>  language interpreters should have one!

Interestingly the linux kernel has been through a similar evolution...

In linux 2.0 Multi-processing (SMP) was brought in.  This was done
using something called the Big Kernel Lock (BKL). Sounds familiar
doesn't it!  This worked fine but had the problem that only one CPU
could be executing in the kernel at once and hence a performance loss
in certain situations.  This is the identical situation to python now
- there can only be one thread in python core at once.

However the linux kernel has evolved to replace the BKL with a series
of smaller locks.  This has been a gradual process from 2.2->2.6 The
BKL is still there but its only used by legacy code in 2.6.

Yes fine grained locking does have an overhead.  More locks mean more
memory and more wasted time in locking and unlocking them.  The linux
kernel has got round this by

1) The locks aren't compiled in at all for a uniprocessor kernel (this
would mean a non-threading python - probably not an option)

2) The linux kernel has many different forms of locking both heavy and
light-weight

3) care has been taken to properly align the locks on cache line
boundaries.  This costs memory though.

4) the linux kernel now has Read-Copy-Update (RCU) which requires no
locking

Linux is aiming at the future when everyone has 4 or 8
cores/hyperthreads and I think that is the right decision.  Fine
grained locking will come to python one day I'm sure.

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 05:13:08 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:13:08 +0200
Subject: print - parameters ?
References: <2sf68hF1jj1mlU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1gl6kaz.ik0adqe0jhkuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Helmut Jarausch <jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:

> Hi,
> sorry for this probably very simple question.
> 
> How can I build a parameter list for 'print' ?

You can't really do that, since (alas) it's a statement, not a function.

> Background:
> I'd like to write a function like
> 
> def myprint(Msg,*Args) :
>    print (Msg,)+Args

def myprint(Msg, *Args):
    print Msg,
    for arg in Args: print arg,
    print

> myprint('this is',x)
> 
> gives
> 
> ('this is', <__main__.ABC instance at 0x4084fc8c>)
> 
> instead of
> 
> this is ABC-class

You're printing a tuple, and that uses repr on each item, with commas to
separate and parentheses around it all.


> What am I missing (what sort of thing is the parameter list of print) ?

It's not really a "sort of thing", alas... print is a statement so it
lives by its own rules (a Python wart, Guido's admitted that; maybe it
will change in Python 3000... let's hope!).


Alex


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Wed Oct  6 16:44:54 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:44:54 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <OzY8d.722$b5.34812@news3.tin.it>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4293.1096947506.5135.python-list@python.org>	<KUo8d.3033$UP1.1475@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4303.1096948810.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4162200b$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.4310.1096950256.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<OzY8d.722$b5.34812@news3.tin.it>
Message-ID: <41645946.9010207@cloudthunder.com>

Anna Martelli Ravenscroft wrote:

> Richard Blackwood wrote:
>
>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>> On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>> When I said "harsh", I meant being accused of trolling,
>>>> attempting to annoy, stir trouble, etc.  None which was my
>>>> intent nor did I think that my post would be interpreted as
>>>> such (otherwise I wouldn't have posted it).
>>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you honestly didn't think you were being rude and weren't
>>> going to annoy anybody, you really, really do need to read how
>>> to ask questions the smart way.  c.l.p is a very kind place,
>>> but should somebody as naive as you wander into the rest of
>>> Usenet... well, I just don't like to think of what might
>>> happen.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>> Apparently it is not a matter of "smartly" but don't ask at all.
>>
>> I get the point, grief.
>
>
> Honey, you ain't seen grief! If you'd posted any *one* question like 
> that on misc.fitness.weights, you'd have been drawn, quartered, tarred 
> and feathered, hung out to dry, and THEN they would start getting mean!
>
> Seriously - the feedback you're getting from several posters is that 
> you're welcome to ask questions, but you need to show that you've done 
> some work first of your own - you need to show that you've put some 
> thought and research into it before posting a question. Some are just 
> laughing or teasing but several honestly trying to help you 
> understand. Please, don't back off and avoid asking - just learn from 
> the responses *how* to ask and *when* to ask (i.e, after you've done 
> some research, reading to learn what you can on your own, and mebbe 
> even tried something out and then come back and have us help you fix 
> it so it works).
>
> Anna

WOW!  Your late on the boat.  That is an old post and all is well at 
this juncture.  Thanks anyway Anna.


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Mon Oct  4 17:47:37 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:47:37 +0200
Subject: How can I make an existing object read-only?
In-Reply-To: <1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Alex Martelli wrote:
(and Steven Bethard also, essentially)

> Instead of passing the bare object, pass it wrapped into something like:
> 
> class nowrite:
>     def __init__(self, obj): self.__dict__['_obj'] = obj
>     def __getattr__(self, n): return getattr(self._obj, n)
>     def __setattr__(self, n, *args): raise AttributeError, n
>     __delattr__ = __setattr__
> 

Now that was simple, why didn't I think of that myself.
Too much Java coding apparently clogs up your mind :o)

> Of course this only helps avoid accidents, it doesn't give security
> against malicious attacks (there's no known way to do that today in
> Python).

Yes, I am aware of that. It was purely to 'avoid accidents'.

Incidentally, why are you writing:

  def __setattr__(self, n, *args): ...

with a varg list ?  I always assumed it only got a single 'value' parameter?


Thanks

--Irmen.


From zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX  Fri Oct  8 09:12:07 2004
From: zunbeltz at wm.lc.ehu.es.XXX (Zunbeltz Izaola)
Date: 08 Oct 2004 15:12:07 +0200
Subject: handle a log file.
References: <cth7jq2pzyg.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
	<DaKdnbQpTNU9v_jcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <cth3c0ppd5k.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>

Peter L Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Zunbeltz Izaola wrote:
> > I've a GUI program (wxPython) that comunicates with a machine with UDP
> > sockets. Every sended socket is writted to file for inspection if
> > there is problem. What ocurs is that sometimes the file grows to much
> > (32Mb) and the program has problems to manage it. Is any way to
> > control the size of the file?
> 
> Use the standard logging module.  It provides the capability for
> an automatically "rotating" log file which will handle rolling
> over and deleting/renaming the previous file automatically.
> 
> You may need to write your own formatter, depending on the
> nature of your log entries...
> -Peter

Thanks to all for the response. I have use RotatingFileHandler and I
think it works smoothly. 
Thaks for the point

Zunbetlz

-- 
Zunbeltz Izaola Azkona                    |  wmbizazz at lg dot ehu
dotes
Materia Kondentsatuaren Fisika Saila      |
Zientzia eta Teknologia Fakultatea        |  Phone: 34946015326
Euskal Herriko Unibertsitatea             |   
PK 644                                    |  Fax:   34 944648500
48080 Bilbo (SPAIN)                       |


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Oct 25 23:15:02 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:15:02 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <20041026024802.GA3581@unpythonic.net>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-54474F.18411025102004@localhost>
	<20041026024802.GA3581@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <1098760502.22370.173.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 21:48 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> Here's a bug that passes silently because ints are not limited in range
> from 1 to 100:
>     ...
> 
> OK, just joking.  I couldn't think of one.

Here's one:

# count how many ferrets I have
ferrets = 0
while 1:
    try:
        ferrets += 1
    except:
        break
print ferrets

As you can clearly see, the answer should have been 3, but due to Python
silently allowing numbers larger than 3 the program gets stuck in an
apparently interminable loop, requiring me to reboot Microsoft Bob.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From vincent at visualtrans.de  Sat Oct 30 04:30:19 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:30:19 +0200
Subject: Job Opportunity for Unix Admin with Python/Scripting Skills
Message-ID: <clvjep$56v$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>


On behalf of Marianne Dove at Google, I'd like to share the following
If you are interested, please email your resume to mdove at google.com - 
not to me ;).

Regards
--
Vincent

"""
Google-Mountain View, CA or Dublin, Ireland

Google seeking Python experts that also have experience in Unix System's
Administration or Unix System's Infrastructure Engineering

Qualifications needed for this position:

-Unix or Linux system administration or experience in system's
infrastructure

-networking experience

-Heavy scripting skills-coding in Python-or Shell Scripting-or Perl

Google's elite squad of systems and software professionals is seeking 
new talent:

As part of our team you would:

Drive Google - Be involved with all aspects of running Google's 
services, from design to debug, from architecture to applications.

Improve Google - Troubleshoot problems in distributed large-scale 
clustered environments, on both the microest of micro and macroest of 
macro levels.

Scale Google - Wear many hats:  performance analyst, service architect,
systems/database administrator, networking guru, capacity planner, tools
developer, monitoring expert, technical evangelist.

Build Google - Contribute toward the continual improvement of Google
services-those which exist today, and those still forthcoming.

Be Googley - Have fun doing all of the above!

If you are interested please email a word version of your resume to:
mdove at google.com
"""


From export at hope.cz  Sat Oct 16 14:38:36 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 11:38:36 -0700
Subject: Poll script in Python
References: <81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5043.1097937424.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410161038.af422a0@posting.google.com>

Josh Close <narshe at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.5043.1097937424.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On 16 Oct 2004 03:59:05 -0700, Lad <export at hope.cz> wrote:
> > Is there a poll script available in Python?
> 
> Can you be more specific? Are you talking about socket polling? Or a
> web poll? Etc?
> 
About web poll
Lad


From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Oct 21 14:03:21 2004
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:03:21 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python and generic programming
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>


Hi,

I wonder, does Python support generic programming paradigm, and to what extent
(I guess, it doesn't do it in full)? And (or) does it move in that direction?
Will we ever see

concept WellAlright:
   ...

constructs in Python?
Isn't it right time to reserve "concept" as a keyword ;-)


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 30 02:08:25 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:08:25 -0700
Subject: running a python script in the background
In-Reply-To: <371349cd.0410291923.a0bc96b@posting.google.com>
References: <371349cd.0410291923.a0bc96b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041029230524.0C07.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


arun.sivakumaran at gmail.com (Arun) wrote:
> the simulations totally in the background (the simulations run for a
> day or two, so basically I want to start them in background and log
> off).

> Now if I start the script in the background with "script.py &", it
> doesn't work. I figure the reason is the system() call spawns the
> simulator in the foreground.

> Is there a way I can make this all run in the background, while at the
> same time ensuring that only one instance of the simulator is running?

It sounds like you are running this on *nix.  The Python interpreter is
likely dying when you log-off due to a 'hangup' signal being called when
you log out.

What has worked for me in the past is to SSH to localhost, executing:
"nohup python script.py &" and disconnecting.  It should work running
from a local terminal (without SSH), but I can't guarantee it.

 - Josiah



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 04:04:09 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 01:04:09 -0700
Subject: Poll script in Python
References: <81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f@posting.google.com>
	<6f402501.0410171605.70b0c279@posting.google.com>
	<ad052e5c.0410181627.3401c55a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410200004.73e1e406@posting.google.com>

danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop) wrote in message news:<ad052e5c.0410181627.3401c55a at posting.google.com>...
> fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) wrote in message news:<6f402501.0410171605.70b0c279 at posting.google.com>...
> > export at hope.cz (Lad) wrote in message news:<81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f at posting.google.com>...
> > > Is there a poll script available in Python?
> > 
> > I'm very interested in increasing the range of 'standard' CGI scripts
> > available in python. If you (or anyone else ?) wants help in writing a
> > simple one that could be used as a plugin to other webpages then
> > contact me and we'll work on it.
> 
> Here's some code (with organization-specific stuff replaced by
> asterisks) that I wrote for polls that use ranked ballots:
> 
> # vote.cgi
> 
[snip..]

Cool - looks interesting.

Thanks

Fuzzy


From usenet.0.lho at spamgourmet.com  Wed Oct 27 08:12:04 2004
From: usenet.0.lho at spamgourmet.com (Joachim Bowman)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:12:04 +0200
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2u9hklF24n4b1U1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

Michael Foord wrote:
> I'd also like to prevent people
> selling derivative works where my stuff forms the substantial part of
> the poduct.
> 
> I'd prefer to use an OSI approved license - but it's not essential.

These two don't go together.  Read "6. No Discrimination Against Fields 
of Endeavor" in "The Open Source Definition"[0].

J

[0] http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php


From kai.keliikuli at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 09:31:19 2004
From: kai.keliikuli at gmail.com (Kai Keliikuli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:31:19 -0400
Subject: manipulating PDF-files with Python?
In-Reply-To: <994828d9.0410190454.3217bebf@posting.google.com>
References: <994828d9.0410190454.3217bebf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vcSdnaH74sidi-jcRVn-jw@comcast.com>

Tuomas P wrote:
 >Are there any open source Python tools that one could manipulate
 >PDF-files with? By manipulation I mean, for instance, deleting or
 >adding or replacing  pages, etc.

Been a while since I used it. I was generating whole pdf docs from
a structured text file.Don't remember editing capability, but I didn't 
need it, I'll bet it's in there
http://www.reportlab.org/


From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Tue Oct 19 09:08:39 2004
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:08:39 +0200
Subject: Python Twain
Message-ID: <417511D7.8040805@cenix-bioscience.com>

Hello,

          Has anyone had any success with python twain?  I've downloaded 
it and run the module however, I'm getting a python core crash when 
calling to SourceManager.OpenSource.  Needless to say, I've already 
tested the scanner with a twain based application and it didn't crash it 
so I'm guessing that the issue is with the python twain and not the 
scanner itself.

    Any tips, helps or <didn't you check that you wally comments> would 
be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Neil

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
BioInnovations Zentrum
Tatzberg 47
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (0)351 4173 154
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com



From bulliver at badcomputer.no-ip.com  Wed Oct 13 09:51:53 2004
From: bulliver at badcomputer.no-ip.com (Darren Kirby)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 06:51:53 -0700
Subject: Completely INNOCENT Indentation question
In-Reply-To: <1b347673.0410130532.63199a4a@posting.google.com>
References: <1b347673.0410130532.63199a4a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200410130651.58425.bulliver@badcomputer.no-ip.com>

quoth the valued customer:
> Is there a way in python to indicate that you want your
> "base level of indentation" to be four spaces instead of
> zero?
>
> As far as I know now, the only way is by introducing some
> sort of language statement, for example:
>
> if (1):
>     ### begin python script
>     foo = 1
>     bar = 2
>     print foo
>     print bar
>
> Is there a way to accomplish this without introducing
> the "throwaway if statement" ??

def main():
    #python script here

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

Will that work for ya?

-- 
Darren Kirby :: Part of the problem since 1976 :: http://badcomputer.no-ip.com
Get my public key from 
http://keyserver.linux.it/pks/lookup?op=index&search=bulliver
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972 
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From kent at springfed.com  Sat Oct 16 19:18:07 2004
From: kent at springfed.com (Kent Tenney)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:18:07 -0500
Subject: viewing pydoc output in FireFox
In-Reply-To: <20041016225440.GA2588@unpythonic.net>
References: <cks809$til$1@sea.gmane.org> <20041016225440.GA2588@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <cksa8j$20d$1@sea.gmane.org>

I appreciate the quick help.
after setting security.checkloaduri
I get a dialog;

You have chosen to open
Image.py
which is a: Python File
...
What should Firefox do with this file?
...

Where do I configure Firefox to open the file as text?

Thanks,
Kent

Jeff Epler wrote:
> Please see
>     https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153448
>     https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84128
> Apparently you can use about:config to change security.checkloaduri to
> false to "fix" the behavior.
> 
> Perhaps pydoc should serve up source files as well as documentation,
> since this behavior by design in firefox makes those links break.
> 
> Jeff
> 



From zathras at thwackety.com  Sat Oct 16 08:19:32 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:19:32 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
In-Reply-To: <du7ekjz3lly.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410161306100.12653-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On 15 Oct 2004, Ville Vainio wrote:

> >>>>> "Phil" == Phil Thompson <phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk> writes:
>
>     Phil> To be pedantic for a second...  Eric3 is free on all
>     Phil> platforms. However it requires PyQt and Qt which are not
>     Phil> free on all platforms. The idea of a commercal .exe version
>     Phil> of Eric3 is a possibility which wouldn't require PyQt and Qt
>     Phil> licenses and would be priced to compete with the
>     Phil> alternatives.
>
>     Phil> Let me or Detlev know if you would be interested in this.
>
> Wasn't there a cheap Windows version of PyQt+Qt that came with some
> Blackadder-book? Couldn't it be used to compile and distribute the
> windows version of eric3 free of charge? Alternatively, isn't it
> possible for someone that has already bought the license to Qt to just
> compile and distribute the Eric3 binary?

The closest you can come is to do the same as the people working on
porting the GPL version of QT to windows. Specifically they're taking the
GPL source of the windows version and rewriting all the X calls to win32
equivalents. They also seem to be getting somewhere.

The question as to whether this is morally a good thing to do is another
question.

> This Qt licensing thing is way too messy, I'm not surprised that so
> many developers are doing their best to avoid it...

Depends on the developer. If you are a commercial developer on windows
willing to stump up the cash, Qt is very pleasant to work with IMO.

If you're a developer who's just developing for unix, linux then there is
no licensing issue for you - as far as you're concerned, it's just GPL.

The only problems occur for people who use windows who want the advantages
of a free software OS (I say free in this case because the amiguity is
useful - something free (as in toys in cereal packets) under unix/etc
isn't free (as in buy 2, pay twice as much!) for them).

Is that a good thing or bad thing? For win32 users I would say bad. For
Trolltech/etc it's a good thing. For free software groups, it could be
argued as being good, since it gives and incentive to change OS.

Being more specific though... It also frustrates me that I can write
something I find useful and then cannot afford to pass it onto friends
who use windows, even if there's no commercial value in it.


Michael.



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 18:22:22 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 23:22:22 +0100
Subject: Python Newbie. Python on PPC, please assist.
References: <2qudnV1KKuD7RfvcRVnyhg@pipex.net>
Message-ID: <9e4em0p11biov7c8rmrhbn8tt1ejk3tkov@4ax.com>

On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:11:50 +0100, "pythonnewbie" <.> wrote:

>Hi All. I'm just starting to learn programming using Python. I am new to
>programming so please be patient with me!
>I found this for Pocket PC:
>http://www.murkworks.com/Research/Python/PocketPCPython/PPCPythonR2Notes

There is a sourceforge project for the latest and greatest Python for
PPC release, I *think* the murkworks one is out of date.

There is also a PythonCE mailing list which will be much better suited
to helping you.

The otehr gentleman who replied is entirely correct - you must be sure
that he version you are using is compiled for your CPU type *and* for
your version of the operating system.

It is currently *only* a python interpreter withstdlib. IDLE has not
been successfully ported. Tk/Tkinter has been ported - but the Tk/Tcl
port is a 'work in progress'.

Python on PPC unfortunately doesn't have a working raw_input command
(because of limitation in the underlying C library) and the GUI
library (as I mentioned) is still flaky. The interpreter woorks fine
though and is great for experimenting on the move. Developing with it
is a pain !! (Although I do do it). There aren't many/any program
written with python for the PPC.

If you are a newbie then learn python on the desktop first.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

>I tried installing it and for some reason it would not work. Having
>installed it,  clicking on the program gives the error "PocketPCPython.exe
>or one of it's components cannot be found", even though I am directly
>clicking on the exe, and even after much fiddling making sure all the files
>are there.
>I'm not a newbie as far as pda's go, so I'm a little confused as to why it's
>not working.
>What I really want to know though, is what it actually, does before I go
>about spending time getting it working. I mean, is it a development
>environment, like IDLE, or does it just install the Python libraries so you
>can run Python programs on a PPC, or what? As I said, I am a complete
>programming newbie so sorry if I'm talking rubbish.
>I'd be really greatful if someone could tell me what the Python PPC program
>is/does. Also if there are any other (better) programs for Python on PPC.
>And if anyone has any ideas why the install didn't work on the PPC, I'd be
>greatful for advice on that too.
>Many thanks in advance.
>



From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 27 06:36:26 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:36:26 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Example of how to use logging for both screen and file
In-Reply-To: <5a309bd30410270221147c8ecd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041027103626.63329.qmail@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

> Could someone help me figure out what is wrong here
> ?? I'd like to use
> logging to send logs to syslogd as well as a file.
> The file logging
> seems to be fine, but why don't I see anything in
> '/var/log/messages'
[snip]
>    flog.setLevel(logging.INFO)
>    slog.setLevel(logging.INFO)
[snip]
> flog.info("##################### foo
> #####################")
> slog.debug("################## bar
> ####################"")

You've set up slog to only pass messages of INFO or
higher, but you're logging a DEBUG message - lower
than INFO, so it doesn't get logged.

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!  http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 11:13:14 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:13:14 +0200
Subject: beginning index for generators
References: <mailman.5041.1097931341.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glrmya.ihoovf1hqa46vN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

kosh <kosh at aesaeion.com> wrote:

> I was wondering if there is or there could be some way to pass a generator an
> optional starting index so that if it supported that slicing could be made
> more efficient. Right now if you do use a generator and do a [100:110] or any
> other kind of slice it reads all the values up to 100 also. 

You can pass any starting arguments you want when you call a generator,
just like you can when you call any other function.  You can, if you
wish, make that argument optional, and by implied agreement between the
call site and the generator you can give that argument any meaning that
the generator is willing and able to supply.  "This is the starting
index" is in no way different from any other meaning whatsoever.

This is all so obvious that I'm afraid you mean something very different
from what you're actually saying, but, if so, then you'll just have to
try to express yourself differently, because I can't read minds!-)


> I know a lot of generators have to do all previous parts before they can do

Right, of course, so presumably such generators would never let you pass
you that optional "this is the starting index" argument -- with them you
have to start from the beginning, period.

> the next part but it would be a nice optimization that can start at any index
> to take an optional argument to tell them what index they are currently
> working on. This could make strides more efficient also since it would not
> have to run the generator to skip the parts it was not using.

I suspect you don't mean by "stride" the same thing I do.  To me, being
an old Fortran/Linpack/etc programmer, a "stride" in a loop is the
amount by which the loop-control variable (an integer) is incremented
after each leg of the loop.  In Python, for example, the third argument
to range, xrange or slice is what I think of as "a stride", though
Python tends to call it "a step" instead (but then, in English, a stride
IS nothing more than a long step!-).  I don't see what passing an
optional starting index has to do with strides, or what it means to
"make strides more efficient".  You could of course design your
generators, if what they're computing is suitable for that, to take an
optional stride argument (presumably defaulting to 1) instead of, or in
addition to, an optional start argument(presumably defaulting to 0).
Again, this is so obvious that I suspec we're just talking at
cross-purposes...


> The reason I would like this to be part of the generator rather then making a
> special function to do this is that it would make it easier to refactor a
> piece of code to be a much more efficient generator from some other sequence
> type without having to change how it is called. 

You can always design and code a generator instead of "some other"
_function_ returning an iterator, or vice versa.  The generator is often
more convenient, but whether it's "much more efficient" is of course
dubious.  For example, all the stuff in itertools _could_ have been
coded as generators, but in fact they're coded as callables returning
iterators of other kinds (instances of C-coded iterator types), as
_that_ turns out to be the "much more efficient" implementation choice
in this case.


> I have no idea how feasible this is, what it would take to implement it etc
> but I did not get any matches searching this on google and wanted to throw it
> out here to see if others have run into situations in which this would be
> very useful also and would further simplify code and make it more readable.
> 
> I would also love to know of other ways that this problem could be solved but
> I would like it to be as transparent as possible to existing calling code.

Perhaps if you can give some strawman examples of how you would like to
be able to code something, with exactly what inputs and what results,
somebody can understand exactly what you're wishing for, because, as of
now, I'm totally incapable of such understanding, beyond the obvieties
above expounded (and I suspect they ARE obvious enough that, if that was
all you were after, you wouldn't have posted -- but this doesn't allow
me to divine what it IS you're after, because the obvieties I expounded
DO match 100% of what you have literally been writing in this post).


Alex


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 31 12:45:55 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:45:55 -0700
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...
	python on ?)
In-Reply-To: <6MydncnkdcXecBncRVn-rA@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.5728.1099211579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6MydncnkdcXecBncRVn-rA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <20041031104220.0C34.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
> > (www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.
> 
> Spiffy indeed!
> 
> (I'm sure there's an obvious answer, but I'm curious why
> they didn't use Basecamp instead of Trac for their bug tracker...)

This is what I can tell (in the 5 minutes reading their web sites):

1. Trac was implemented when they started RubyOnRails, so they used it
because it fit with what they were doing.
2. RubyOnRails was developed.
3. Someone implemented Basecamp using RubyOnRails as a framework.

You can't really build an application before you build a framework, and
switching project management is, from what I hear, quite a bitch.

 - Josiah



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 26 00:05:12 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:05:12 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410251927.38347d92@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<_aadnTCr7PWKYeHcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>
	<940ee3e8.0410251927.38347d92@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Z6kfd.18413$SW3.4432@fed1read01>

kartik wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<_aadnTCr7PWKYeHcRVn-rg at powergate.ca>...
>  
> 
>>Do you feel strongly enough about the quality of your code to write
>>automated tests for it?  Or are you just hoping that one tiny class
>>of potential bugs will be caught for you by this feature of the
>>language?
> 
> 
> 1)catching overflow bugs in the language itself frees u from writing
> overflow tests.

That seems to me to be a bit like saying you don't need to do any 
engineering calculations for your bridge because you'll find out if it's 
not strong enough when it falls down.

> 2)no test (or test suite) can catch all errors, so language support 4
> error detection is welcome.

Yes, but you appear to feel that an arbitrary limit on the size of 
integers will be helpful, while I feel it's much better to assert that 
they are in bounds as necessary. Relying on hardware overflows as error 
detection is pretty poor, really.

> 3)overflow detection helps when u dont have automated tests 4 a
> particular part of your program.
> 
But writing such tests would help much more.
> 
>>I'm not sure what you're asking, because even the exposure of
>>latent bugs which you are describing can happen only when you
>>*run* the code.
> 
> 
> Agreed. i'm saying that without int/long unification, the bugs will b
> found sooner & closer to where they occur, rather than propagating
> throughout the program's objects & being found far away from the
> source, if at all.
> 
Even if we assume that this specious argument is valid, what consolation 
would you offer the people who actually did find that huge integers were 
helpful and that their programs no longer ran after such a change?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 17:06:36 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:06:36 -0300
Subject: Free hosting for Python open-source projects
Message-ID: <864d370904101914067b7a1728@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sure this question has been posted before, but the answer will
probably be out of date, so here it goes.

I'm looking for a good host for my Python open source projects. The
requirements are:

-- First of all, stability;
-- Support for a mailing list (essential for all projects);
-- Support for Subversion (not essential for small projects);
-- Support for Python-hosted applications (such as Trac, Wiki, and similar apps)
-- Reasonable traffic and disk space limits;
-- Potential for growth (perhaps with a commercial option?), if some
of the projects starts to attract more traffic.

I know that some companies offer hosting space for open source
projects, often with reasonable limitations. The main problem in my
case is _stability_ and the _mailing list_. Unfortunately, my own
experience with sourceforge lists, over recent times, is somewhat
problematic, so I would like to find a good host for low volume lists,
with responsive mailing performance.

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From vng1 at mac.com  Mon Oct  4 09:44:02 2004
From: vng1 at mac.com (vng1 at mac.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:44:02 -0400
Subject: weak references an C extension types
Message-ID: <73C04013-160B-11D9-8D52-000A95C5186E@mac.com>

Hi all,

I'm trying to build a C extension that supports weak references with 
Pyrex but I'm pretty confused as to what I need to do.

The docs at : http://docs.python.org/lib/weakref-extension.html

make reference to PyObject_ClearWeakRefs and to a tp_flags settings 
which I'm not sure how to access from Pyrex.

Has anyone had success with weak references and Pyrex?

vic
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From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 27 11:16:05 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:16:05 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <417fb7ae$0$71146$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.5538.1098846078.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clngtp$tat$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417fb7ae$0$71146$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1098890165.22370.454.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 14:58 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-10-27, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> > kartik vaddadi wrote:
> >
> >>> Overflow errors are not automated tests.
> >> 
> >> why not? they detect bugs.
> >
> > According to that logic your users will be automated tests, too...
> 
> Finally, somebody who understands the way "real programmers"
> work.  ;)

Indeed. I prefer to call users "units".

Now back to "unit-testing" my app.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 27 01:25:28 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:25:28 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410262000.6e34568f@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<940ee3e8.0410262000.6e34568f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lNudnb33tMnarOLcRVn-qw@powergate.ca>

kartik wrote:
> thank u so much 4 your help, but i know what i'm saying without
> assistance from clowns like u. & i dont give a damn about your rules 4
> proper communciation, as long as i'm understood.

I feel the need to point out in the above the parallel (and equally
mistaken) logic with your comments in the rest of the thread.

In the thread you basically are saying "I want high quality
code, but I refuse to do the thing that will give it to me
(writing good tests) as long as a tiny subset of possible bugs
are caught by causing overflow errors at an arbitrary limit".

Above you are basically saying "I want to be understood,
but I refuse to do the thing that will make it easy for me
to be understood (using proper grammer and spelling) as
long as it's possible for people to laboriously decipher
what I'm trying to say".

Or something like that... I'm with Cliff (which is to say,
I'm outta here).

-Peter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 07:38:43 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:38:43 +0200
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<4164f407$0$5963$d4d0a361@news.speedlinq.nl>
Message-ID: <1glag26.95flqcwuwn89N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

duikboot <"adijkstra at baanders NOSPAM consultancy.nl"> wrote:

> Kat wrote:
> > Hi ,
> > How do you identify the last line of a file? I am in a "for" loop and
> > need to know which is the last line of the file while it is being read
> > in this loop.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Kat
> 
> f = open("test.txt").readlines()
> lines = len(f)
> print lines
> counter = 1
> for line in f:
>      if counter == lines:
>          print "last line: %s" % line
>      counter += 1

A slight variation on this idea is using the enumerate built-in rather
than maintaining the counter by hand.  enumerate counts from 0, so:

for counter, line in enumerate(f):
    if counter == lines-1: is_last_line(line)
    else: is_ordinary_line(line)

If the file's possibly too big to read comfortably in memory, of course,
other suggestions based on generators &c are preferable.


Alex


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sun Oct 24 16:01:21 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 20:01:21 GMT
Subject: Slow debugging with Komodo
References: <417a8d3e$0$1161$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
	<cle83h$fmt$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <slrncno2c9.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:32:17 +0000 (UTC), Jarek Zgoda <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> wrote:
...
> Didn't notice such weirdness, but Komodo is rather RAM-hungry so better
> close as many other programs as you can, [...]

Don't know what OS we're talking about, but in all reasonable ones a process
is basically for-free if it doesn't do anything. It will be paged out to
disk in favor of that Komodo thingy.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From liquid at kuht.it  Sun Oct 17 13:24:10 2004
From: liquid at kuht.it (GMTaglia)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:24:10 GMT
Subject: optparse examples
Message-ID: <_Uxcd.50307$b5.2548305@news3.tin.it>

Hi list,

I'm trying to understand how really optparse work
.
I've already read the documentation so please don't answer RTFM because I
already did it twice :)

Maybe someone have some examples of code for the *real world*?

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance and happy new week.
GMTaglia


From jan.dries at dcube-resource.be  Fri Oct  1 01:30:48 2004
From: jan.dries at dcube-resource.be (Jan Dries)
Date: Fri,  1 Oct 2004 07:30:48 +0200
Subject: python vs c#
Message-ID: <i4w4nc.8tglxw@wwww.jandries.be>

Bengt Richter wrote:
[... ]
> I almost posted a similar comment ;-) OTOH ...
> How many relevant points do you need to start a debate?
> How would you answer that question?
> 
> A few is enough?
> A few are enough?
> A few relevant points suffices, or a few relevant points suffice?
> A small number suffices, or a small number suffice?
> A dozen is sufficient?
> A dozen are sufficient?
>  
> I suspect that there are some semantic subtleties at work. 
> I.e., when you focus mentally on the few points as a single
> collection, the singular forms feel right, but when you focus on 
> the few points as separate entities, plural forms feel right.
> Thus you want the verb (e.g.,is/are) to agree numerically with
> _some entities_, or with _a collection_, according to your focus.
> I think some sentences can be read either way, depending on which
> way your attention is directed (e.g. by word order and discourse
> context etc.) "A few" can work as noun or adjective, it seems.

IIRC from back when I was in school (long time ago), both forms are correct.
At least in Dutch. Strictly spoken it should be "a few is enough" or "a
number of people has died". But the plural form is also accepted, and it is
called (with an expensive Latin term) "constructio ad sensum", i.e. you
conjugate the verb in accordance with what the word represents, rather than
with what it grammatically is. 

Regards,
Jan








From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Oct 27 21:19:05 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:19:05 -0400
Subject: Open Source License Question
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA@rogers.com>
	<6f402501.0410271123.5a7e68d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <N9GdnbEBX4-F1B3cRVn-rw@rogers.com>


"Michael Foord" <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:6f402501.0410271123.5a7e68d9 at posting.google.com...
> "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message 
> news:<97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA at rogers.com>...
>> Michael, I have one comment in-line (see below), but other than that I 
>> can
>> only say that I chose GPL for my own project.  It may discourage use of 
>> my
>> code for commercial purposes but it might even be pretentious to expect 
>> that
>> something like that would ever happen.
>
> A lot of people use python as part of their job and are active
> participants in teh python community. A lot of what I write are
> library modules to do a particular job. Using the GPL means someone is
> unable to use your work in a business setting. i don't expect other
> people to sell products containing my work - but neither do I want to
> prevent them from being able to use it.

Fair enough.  LGPL, X, or BSD should allow you to do that.

>> On the other hand, I was more
>> interested in the advantages of open-source and I wanted to enforce that 
>> as
>> much as possible.  I did some research of my own at the time (recently,
>> actually) but I didn't go much into details and I didn't study other
>> licenses in detail either, but I chose GPL in large part because it is 
>> the
>> most widely used.
>>
>> I tried to find some of the web pages that I read when I was doing my
>> research but I couldn't.  However, I stumbled upon an article that I 
>> didn't
>> see before and that is very much in line with my thoughts.  Here's a 
>> link:
>> http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/gpl-compatible.html.
>
> Sure - if I allow my work to be relicensed then it will be GPL
> compatible. I don't like the GPL itself.
>
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> "Michael Foord" <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6 at posting.google.com...
>> > I'd like to formalise slightly the license I release my projects
>> > under. At the moment it's 'free to use, modify, distribute and
>> > relicense'. This is basically fine as I don't want t oprevent people
>> > using my work in commercial settings - but I would like to retain the
>> > right to be identified as the author. I'd also like to prevent people
>> > selling derivative works where my stuff forms the substantial part of
>> > the poduct.
>>
>> Michael, I think it's going to be hard to get what you want.  I don't see
>> how you can give a lot of freedom ("I don't want to prevent people using 
>> my
>> work in commercial settings") and, at the same time, achieve something 
>> like
>> "to prevent people selling derivative works where my stuff forms the
>> substantial part of the poduct".  I'm no lawyer, but I don't think you 
>> can
>> define in a license what is a "substantial part of the product".
>>
>
> I've done some legal training - English law can be reasonably sensible
> when it comes to definitions of words. You could even pin it down to
> something as specific as 'more than 30% of the lines of source code'.
> In programming terms it's a meaningless measure - but you have to
> start somewhere. I don't think I can afford to sue anyone
> anyway...........

I saw basically two messages in the articles that I have quoted.  One was 
for GPL-compatibility, but the other one was to not write your own license. 
I think other people also have been giving a warning about that in this 
thread.  I'll give you credit for having some legal training and I will 
assume that you can do a good job at defining a license.  However, think of 
it this way.  No matter how good a job you can do at writing it, most people 
will not be good enough at interpreting it.  You are trying to allow some 
commercial use of your code, but you may end up driving people away from 
using it, both for commercial and OS purposes.  Many people will just avoid 
it if it is not a license that they understand and that they are not 
familiar with.

My 2 cents.

Dan 




From zathras at thwackety.com  Fri Oct  8 20:15:01 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 01:15:01 +0100
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
	<4165ad9a$0$44853$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
	<6f402501.0410080622.2343540d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41671917$0$44845$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>

Michael Foord wrote:
> [thanks but snip.. ;-) ]
..
> Sorry... :-( don't get it.
> What is add-to-sample-set(request) doing ? Is it simply choosing a
> proportion of our users to sample ?
> 
> If this is only a 'do if you have too many users' kind-of-thing then
> unfortunately it won't be a problem for me !!

It's precisely that. If you don't think it'll be an issue for you then I'll
just leave things as is :) (If anyone's curious as to what I mean though
I'll be happy to expand)

>> (Or something like that IYSWIM - ie get the user population to indicate
>> if they're being sampled - again, this allows your users to easily opt
>> out,
> 
> As above... I don't get it, so I don't see how it achieves this ?

Suppose the following user groups:
   * Refuse all cookies - can't use cookies to track, IP isn't 100%
     reliable.
   * Users accept all cookies, don't care - ideal candidates for sampling
   * Users generally have cookies enabled, but don't like being tracked.
      * In this scenario you can have a "click on this image to cease being
        tracked" picture for them to click on, which sets a cookie that
        effectively says "don't track me". It does rely on them trusting you
        not to track them, but if you send them all the same cookie value
        (eg "NOTRACK") it should be obvious to them that the cookie is
        useless for tracking.

That way you get 3 types of cookies:
   * NEWUSER
   * specific trackable id value
   * NOTRACK

It's a nice little thing you can add on after the fact which I think is
quite nice.

>> and also means the memory/etc required to determine whether to track the
>> user or not isn't dependent on the number of requests your site gets -
>> meaning that you can keep analysis costs for your site under control. If
>> you've only got a small site this probably doesn't matter to you, but
>> worth bearing in mind).
>> 
>> The interesting thing about this from my perspective is that if you do
>> take a cookie approach like this, it actually allows you to figure out
>> how much error there actually is between IP and cookie - rather than just
>> guess.
> 
> One last question. You didn't explicitly say this, but I was thinking
> of doing it anyway. Are you suggesting to store USERID *and* IP
> address and ...

Most webservers allow you to define custom logging formats, or at minimum
some extended formats. There is a defined format for example that will
include in the log any cookie value received along with the usual details.
You can then use standard tools to analyse the log after the fact. By
noting which log lines are new users "NEWUSER" (and hence not really
trackable) and people who don't want to be tracked "NOTRACK", you can
exclude these lines and pass the thing to tools like analog, and more
sophisticated tools designed to follow user paths through a site.

Obviously such things become harder depending on how much traffic your site
sees... (Which was why I was putting pointers to sampling earlier - it's
non-trivial to get "right" in many respects :)

The advantage of taking the "just let the system log the details" is that
it's simple to do, you can use standard tools, and you can choose whether
to analyse using IPs or cookies at your leisure.

> compare the results of anylysing by IP and analysing by
> cookie.... Sounds worthwhile...

It does. I'm not really aware of anyone who has actively attempted to follow
user trails through sites based on IP then repeating the same analysis
using cookies in this kind of way. I _suspect_ the results would be very
different for small vs large sites, and potentially even how niche a
website is.

After all if you find that the margin of error is acceptable and
(preferably) predictable, you can just choose the computationally
cheaper option.

> Thanks for your help - very interesting.

No problem.

Best Regards,


Michael.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 13:10:54 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:10:54 +0200
Subject: How to get an encoding a value?
References: <mailman.5323.1098459379.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2tspdiF238hqeU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1gm2nks.vf77b916l066wN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Diez B. Roggisch <deets.nospaaam at web.de> wrote:

> A common approach to guessing the encoding of said string is to try
> something like this:
> 
> s = <some string with unknown encoding>
> encodings ['ascii', 'latin1', 'utf-8', ....] # list of encodings you expect
> for e in encodings:
>     try:
>         if s == s.decode(e).encode(e):
>               break
>     except UnicodeError:
>         pass

Yeah, but it doesn't work.  iso-8859-x would break for any value of x;
can't tell this way if it was latin-1, or any of the others...


Alex


From jonathan at gennick.com  Fri Oct 22 18:20:27 2004
From: jonathan at gennick.com (Jonathan Gennick)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:20:27 -0400
Subject: Need help locating Python Cookbook contributors
References: <9agin0dmvolq8ap678bu2uo1fn3kfrv4ff@4ax.com>
	<clbh1n$akl$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <6j1jn0hc89ibsug5n6r4jj6jqeendduvrv@4ax.com>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:46:27 +0100, Michael Hoffman
<m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote:

>You really can't find Raymond Hettinger? ;-)

Well, I think I've found him now. Alex probably could have found him
easily enough. I, on the other hand, do not know the Python community
nearly so well as Alex does. Please feel free to enjoy a good laugh at
my expense whenever I ask for someone who is particularly well-known
and visable. In return, I promise not to ever ask for help locating
Guido ;-)

I must say though, chasing down all these permissions is certainly
helping me get a better sense of who's-who in the Python space.

Best regards,

Jonathan Gennick
Editor, O'Reilly Media
906.387.1698   mailto:jgennick at oreilly.com


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Thu Oct 21 00:12:04 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 04:12:04 GMT
Subject: Exceptions
References: <20041020233946.16183.00000897@mb-m01.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20041021001204.16183.00000898@mb-m01.aol.com>

nevermind, I figured it out


From janeaustine50 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  2 13:54:24 2004
From: janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 10:54:24 -0700
Subject: bsddb btree sorting order
Message-ID: <ba1e306f.0410020954.1d446048@posting.google.com>

Hello.

How do I change the BTree sorting order with bsddb, instead of the
default lexicographical order? After studying sleepycat's document, I
found there is a function call for setting the compare callback,
set_bt_compare. It even seems like got into pybsddb patch list
(http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=532308&group_id=13900&atid=313900).
However, the current Python source tree (cvs) doesn't include the
patch.

I have no idea how those two projects(pybsddb and bsddb in standard
lib) are going together, or where I could ask about this. Why hasn't
the patch got through the main Python cvs?

Any workarounds except modifying the source?


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 16:46:57 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:46:57 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<1098414642.736428.8940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1gm1x7t.w8k2hqrv300tN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4178ca7c$0$44104$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
	<1gm21ye.rego7yswhcmsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41796141$0$44094$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <1gm2wkk.k6yvyre95jdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

GerritM <gmuller at worldonline.nl> wrote:
   ...
> > > these reasons that Python is a big plus during system integration of
> large
> >
> > Not as much as one might hope, in my experience.  Protocol Adaptation
> > _would_ help (see PEP 246), but it would need to be widely deployed.
> >
> I think that I understand how PEP 246 might be an improvement over the
> current situation. However, I think that Python 2.3 capabilities already
> result in smaller programs and presumably less modules than their equivalent

If you are aiming at a given fixed amount of functionality, yes: smaller
programs, and fewer modules (not in proportion, because each module
tends to be smaller).  Modules aren't really the problem in _system
integration_, though; the unit that's developed together, tested
together, released together, is something a bit less definite that is
sometimes called a "component".  It could be a module, more likely it
will be a small number of modules, perhaps grouped into a package.

One of my ideas is that a component needs to be cohesive and coherent.
I'm not alone in thinking that, at any rate.  Therefore, the number of
components in a system with a given number of FP is weakly affected by
the language level of the chosen implementation language[s], because
each component cannot/shouldn't really have more than X function points,
even if using a very high level language means each component is
reasonably small.  To get concrete, already in my previous post I gave
some numbers (indicative ones, of course): 200-300 FP per component,
meaning about 2k-3k SLOCs in Python (functional _application_ code, net
of tests, instrumentation, docs, comments, etc -- about 6k-7k lines as
wc counts them might be a reasonable rules of thumb, about half of them
being tests).

So, if you're building a 5000-FP system, you're going to end up with
about 20 components to integrate -- even though in Python that means 50k
lines of application code, and in Java or C++ it might well be 200k or
more.  The design problem (partitioning) and the system integration may
end up being in the same order of magnitude, or the Python benefit might
be 20%, 30% tops, nothing like the 4:1 or 5:1 advantage you get in the
coding and testing of the specific single components.

My numbers may well be off (I'm trying to be concrete because it's too
easy to handwave away too much, in this field;-) but even if you double
component size and thus halve number of components in each language the
relative ratio remains the same.  Python may gain some advantage by
making components that are a bit richer than the optimal size for Java
or C++ coded ones, but it's still not a many-times-to-one ratio as it is
for the pure issue of coding, in my experience.


> I haven't touched Java for centuries, ehh years). My assumption is that
> integration problems are at least proportional with the implementation size
> (in kloc). So my unproven hypothesis is that since Python programs tend to
> be smaller than their Java equivalent that the integration problems are
> smaller, purely due to the size.

This is the crux of our disagreement.  For a solid component built by
TDD, it's a second-order issue, from the POV of integrating it with the
other components with which it must interact in the overall system, how
big it is internally: the first order issue is, how rich is the
functionality the component supplies to other components, consumes from
them, internally implements.  Integrating two components with the same
amount of functionality and equivalent interfaces between them, assuming
they're both developed solidly wrt the specs that are incarnated in each
component's unit-tests, is weakly dependent on the level of their
implementation languages.

Maybe I'm taking for granted a design approach that requires system
functionality to be well-partitioned among components interacting by
defined interfaces.  But that's not a Python-specific issue: that's what
we were doing, albeit without a fully developed "ideology" well
developed to support it, when in the 2nd half of the '90s Lakos'
milestone book (whose title is echoed in this thread's subject) arrived
to confirm and guide our thinking and practice on the subject.  I'm sure
_survivable_ large systems must be developed along this kind of lines
(with many degrees of variation possible, of course) in any language.


> In the same system mentioned above we build our own instrumentation. The
> main part was based on insering a small piece of adminstrative code at every
> object creation and deletion. This Object Instantation Tracing proved to be
   ...
> The investment in the tools mentioned above were relatively small. However,
> this works only if the entire system is based on the same architectural
> rules.

Well, this last sentence might be the killer, since it looks like it
will in turn kill the project's ability to reuse the huge amount of good
code that's out there for the taking.  If you have to invasively modify
the code you're reusing, reuse benefits drop and might disappear.

So I want instrumentation that need not be in the Python sources of
application and library and framework components (multiframework reuse
is also a crux for PEP 246), much as I have for coverage or profiling.
If all it takes is hacking on the Python internals to provide a mode
(perhaps a separate compilation) that calls some sys.newhook at every
creation, sys.delhook at every deletion, etc, then that would IMHO be a
quite reasonable price to pay, for example.

 
> The additional challenge of Python relative to Objective-C is its garbage
> collection. This provides indeed a poorly predictable memory behavior.

Obj-C uses mark-and-sweep, right?  Like Java?  I'm not sure why
(reference counting bugs in badly tested extensions apart) Python's mix
of RC normally plus MS occasionally should be a handicap here.


> Some of the design aspects mentioned here are described in this chapter of
> my PhD thesis:
> http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/MIconceptualViewPaper.p
> df

Tx, I'll be happy to study this.


Alex


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct  9 22:43:13 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:43:13 GMT
Subject: (solved)  smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4632.1097343379.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4622.1097283888.5135.python-list@python.org>	<NxM9d.7377$UP1.1405@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4632.1097343379.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5l1ad.7992$UP1.1907@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> It is a kind of per-thread storage, but you can get at the data any time
> from any thread (via multi_thread_output.get_ready() ). From what I
> understand of generic Python thread local storage gained from the
> docstring in CVS for the Python implementation here:
>    <http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Lib/_threading_local.py?rev=1.3&view=markup>
> 
> ...other threads cannot access Python standard thread local storage.

Mmm, I see your point.  There's a roundabout way by
getting the '_local__key' of the local storage object
then enumerating all the Threads to find the one with
that key in the __dict__.  Too much hackery.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Sat Oct 16 05:11:37 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:11:37 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
Message-ID: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02>

I have a number of strings, containing wildcards (e.g. 'abc#e#' where # 
is anything), which I want to match with a test string (e.g 'abcdef'). 
What would be the best way for me to store my strings so lookup is as 
fast as possible?


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 11:37:51 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:37:51 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <vu6dnfgkFdRNG__cRVn-hA@powergate.ca>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Ovp8d.3155$M05.74@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4311.1096951351.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<vu6dnfgkFdRNG__cRVn-hA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <4162BFCF.1010603@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
> (By the way, if you really are new to Usenet, please, please
> go and read that "smart questions" essay, even if the suggestion
> to do so sounds rude.  The context it will give you about the
> Usenet community (to which the python-list is mirrored and vice
> versa) will be very helpful to you, as will the advice it gives.
>
> Anyway, welcome to c.l.p. :-)
>
> -Peter

I skimmed it.  Thanks.


From invisiblepaul at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 10 06:38:14 2004
From: invisiblepaul at hotmail.com (Paul)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 03:38:14 -0700
Subject: integer type conversion problem/question
References: <slrncmf2hc.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<slrncmgf4i.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<slrncmgfdd.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<slrncmgga6.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
Message-ID: <1f2809cc.0410100238.a1de6f8@posting.google.com>

Faheem Mitha <faheem at email.unc.edu> wrote in message news:<slrncmgga6.dg0.faheem at Chrestomanci.home.earth>...
> On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 19:36:13 GMT, Faheem Mitha <faheem at email.unc.edu> wrote:
> > On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 19:31:30 GMT, Faheem Mitha <faheem at email.unc.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I did have one followup question. If Python implements its integers as
> >> signed C ints then surely 2^31 - 1 should be an integer rather than a
> >> long? But I get
> >>
> >>  In [9]: 2**31 - 1
> >>  Out[9]: 2147483647L
> >>
> >>  In [10]: type(2**31 - 1)
> >>  Out[10]: <type 'long'>
> >
> > Belated followup to my own message. The following behaves as expected.
> >
> > In [13]: 2147483647
> > Out[13]: 2147483647
> >
> > In [14]: 2147483648
> > Out[14]: 2147483648L
> >
> > Apparently there is something about the ** notation that makes Python
> > think of this as a long. Since Python people are more likely to know
> > the answer, I'm ccing comp.lang.python despite the followup. Thanks.
> 
> Eric Brewer kindly replied (directly to me), so I'm copying it here.
> 
> ********************************************************************
> This is because 2**31 is a long (and *then* you subtract 1)
> 
> >>> 2**31-1
>  2147483647L
> >>> 2**30
>  1073741824
> >>> 2**30 + 2**30
> 2147483648L
> 
> Here is one way to get 2**31-1 as a regular int:
> 
> >>> 2**30 + (2**30-1)
> 2147483647
> **********************************************************************
> 
> 

I'm sorry but this is off-topic in alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++.
We do not discuss limbless reptiles in here. :)


From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Wed Oct 27 18:18:31 2004
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:18:31 +0200
Subject: piping a stream to a python script
References: <mailman.5590.1098907476.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20041027221831.2F79.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

Matt Price wrote:

> I'd like to capture the stream in a string object.  Is there a simle
> way to do this?

Just read read from sys.stdin.

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl

'Good manners will open doors that the best education cannot.' --         
   Clarence Thomas, U.S. Supreme Court Justice


From fumi at fakehost.com  Fri Oct 29 06:00:38 2004
From: fumi at fakehost.com (The Fumigator)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:00:38 +0500
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>

Hi.

I want to be able to create a persistent connection between an XML-RPC
client and server... i.e. I want to be able to login once, carry
out a number of calls and then logout rather than send login info for
every call. 

Is there a way to do this with the xml-rpc code in the standard library?

Thanks in advance


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 08:26:57 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 05:26:57 -0700
Subject: EVIL AMERICAN GOVT (aka FBI) is full of SADISTS and PERVERTS
In-Reply-To: <FdOdnV7flNYAZfTcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
References: <11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0@posting.google.com>
	<278de0e.0410101007.48dbb21e@posting.google.com>
	<FdOdnV7flNYAZfTcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1097670417.12092.74.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 23:06 -0400, Peter L Hansen wrote:
> Neuruss wrote:
> > After reading carefully this message, I came to the conclusion that it
> > is a little bit off topic.
> 
> Other than the parts about "SADISTS and PERVERTS", what portion
> was *on* topic?  ;-)

I almost missed this thread as it got filtered to my "sadists and
perverts" folder by my mail program.


-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From thomas at it-snedkeren.BLACK_HOLE.dk  Fri Oct 29 05:36:58 2004
From: thomas at it-snedkeren.BLACK_HOLE.dk (Thomas Lindgaard)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:36:58 +0200
Subject: Catch unknown exception
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.29.09.36.57.887028@it-snedkeren.BLACK_HOLE.dk>

Hello

Python is not my native language, so I'm kinda stuck right now. 

I have a small web crawler, that opens pages using urllib.urlopen (1). The
problem is that when a page doesn't exist, I would like to do this and
that. So I have done the following:

  import urllib
  import socket
  socket.setdefaulttimeout(10)

  def getPage(self):
    try:
      self.page = urllib.urlopen(self.link)
      self.body = self.page.read()
      self.page.close()
    except <this is the problem>:
      singSongAboutTimeout()

I have tried "except socket.timeout" but this is ignored. The call to
getPage is wrapped in its own try-except:

  try:
    self.page = getPage(self.link)
    self.body = self.page.read()
    self.page.close()
  except IOError, (errno, errmsg):
    # print error

This block catches the exception, but I would really like to catch it
earlier.

How do I do that? Is there a way to check which exception is being caught
- something along the lines of:

  try:
    # something throws an exception
  except:
    printHumanReadableDescriptionOfException()

And finally, I have a few problems finding what to write after except...
how can I know what the exception returns (ie. errno and errmsg are
returned by IOError)?

Regards
/Thomas

(1) I have specified a new user-agent as described in
http://python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/module-urllib.html under _urlopener


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 19 14:08:56 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:08:56 GMT
Subject: formatting time as milliseconds in logging module
References: <cl2n3g$2lt$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<mailman.5181.1098204956.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417552ef.232031804@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:47:30 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

>> The logging module nicely prepends each line with a formatted date.
>> 
>> However, I'm not interested in the actual date but only in the number of 
>> milliseconds that passed since the start of the program. What is the best 
>> way of doing that?
>
>In Windows: time.clock() will get you the number of seconds since you
>last called it, down to the microsecond (trim as you see fit).
 ^^^^ first, it seems (certainly not a delta since the last time.clock() call)

 >>> if 1: #postpone interactive start of suite
 ...     print 'starting'
 ...     import time
 ...     time.sleep(5)
 ...     print time.clock()
 ...     for i in xrange(10):
 ...         print time.clock()
 ...         time.sleep(1.0)
 ...
 starting
 1.25714266558e-005
 0.00067466656386
 1.00140967598
 2.00285203766
 3.00429188506
 4.00575352293
 5.00716152272
 6.0086038844
 7.01003954133
 8.01151542682
 9.01291420756

Don't know why the first value is not a pure 0.0 though.

>
>In linux, time.clock() gives you the amount of processor time used, so
>it is not quite as useful in this case.
>
>
>In both, time.time() will give you the number of seconds since the epoch,
>so you can call it once when the program starts, and later just
>subtract the times.  In Windows, it is only accurate to .01 seconds, and
Maybe not even all windows. E.g., for NT that is one scheuling time slice,
but oher variants might have other granularity, IWT.

>I don't know how accurate the linux version is (I expect about as
>accurate, but I can certainly be wrong).
>
Unless your process is running with hard real time priority, you have to throw in
os multitasking and interrupt processing latency as well (try using the mouse to drag
a complex GUI window of another app around continuously while your test runs ;-).

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From grante at visi.com  Sat Oct  9 18:22:41 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 09 Oct 2004 22:22:41 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-09, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:

>>> The basic problem is that there is no obvious "xor on string"
>>> operation
>> 
>> Sure there is.  Strings have a boolean value, and the xor
>> operation on boolean values is well-defined.
>
> That's an operation, but I'm not sure that's the obvious one.
> For my part, if I saw "string1 ^ string2" I'd probably expect
> a byte by byte xor with the result being a new string.

Only because Python lacks a logical xor operator, so you're
used to thinking of ^ as a bitwise operator.  What if you saw

  string1 xor string2?

Wouldn't you expect it to be equivalent to

  (string1 and (not string2)) or ((not string1) and string2)
  
> It doesn't feel natural to me to have my strings suddenly
> interpreted as a new data type based on the operation at hand.
> Logical operators work that way but not numerics

I don't know what you mean by that.  Nobody seems to have a
problem with "and" "or" and "not" operators using the truth
values of strings.  What is there about "xor" that precludes it
from behaving similarly?

> (it would be in the same vein as string + number interpreting
> the string as a number - that way lies Perl :-))

I don't see that at all.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Let's go to CHURCH!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Oct 16 13:26:11 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:26:11 -0500
Subject: pickle format question
In-Reply-To: <41715414$1@news.home.net.pl>
References: <41715414$1@news.home.net.pl>
Message-ID: <20041016172609.GA2724@unpythonic.net>

Pickle output at least includes "\n" in addition to ASCII 32..126.

I believe that '\x7f' (ascii 127) will not be present in the output:
Strings are dumped in repr-like form, so ASCII 127 will be ouput as a
\x-sequence.  Numbers (floats, ints and longs) are also dumped in
repr-like form, and tuples and lists use just a few printable ASCII
characters in 32..126.

>>> string.printable 
'0123456789abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ!"#$%&\'()*+,-./:;<=>?@[\\]^_`{|}~ \t\n\r\x0b\x0c'
>>> for c in pickle.dumps([(None), {1j:1L}, "\x7f", 1, 1.]):                   
...     if c not in string.printable: raise ValueError, ord(c)
... 
>>>

Jeff
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From mauriceling at acm.org  Mon Oct 18 20:16:35 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:16:35 GMT
Subject: Python + Java knowledge
In-Reply-To: <xrYcd.272267$D%.25120@attbi_s51>
References: <41743e26$1@news.unimelb.edu.au> <xrYcd.272267$D%.25120@attbi_s51>
Message-ID: <41745cdf$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>

Ann wrote:
> "Maurice LING" <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote in message
> news:41743e26$1 at news.unimelb.edu.au...
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>I've learnt and used Java and Python for a few years now, on bits of my
>>thesis work etc etc. I will have to say that I love both languages and
>>the possibilities they can provide. More recently, due to the toolkit
>>that I use, I've been using Python. And I found that my Jva knowledge
>>slacks a little. So, I'm looking for some tips on how to maintain the
>>knowledge on both areas.
>>
>>Has anyone done it?
>>
>>Thanks
>>Maurice
> 
> 
> I would say to look for some of those "what's different in xxx" files
> and go from there.
> 
> 

Thanks. Maybe I should say that I knew and had used both Python and Java 
and had used them in one way or another. I also knew and had used 
Jython. I am more interested about how both can complement each other. 
My problem is that as I used one of the two in a project (say Python), 
my knowledge on the other one (Java) slacks off a bit and finds that I 
have to re-learn parts of Java if I need it again... Is this a problem 
of no solution or are there some tips to reduce the rate of slack off in 
  knowledge?

I must say that Python/Jython/Java package rings so homely that I will 
love to keep.

Thanks
Maurice


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Oct 12 17:07:04 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:07:04 -0300
Subject: proposition for syntax for initialisation of multidimensional
	lists
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7A3D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Nils Grimsmo]

#- i always have trouble explaining why creation of 
#- multidimensional lists 
#- is not as straight forward as it could be in python. list 
#- comprehensions 
#- are ugly if you are new to the language. i really would like 
#-  to see it 
#- made easy. i propose using tuples in the same way as 
#- integers are now. 
#- example:
#- 
#-  >>> [0] * (2,3,4)
#- [[[0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0]], [[0, 0, 0, 0], 
#- [0, 0, 0, 
#- 0], [0, 0, 0, 0]]]

You don't need list comprehensions::

>>> [[[0] * 4] * 3] * 2
[[[0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0]], [[0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0],
[0, 0, 0, 0]]]

.	Facundo


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Oct 19 18:34:00 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:34:00 -0600
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <41759589.4020501@pythonapocrypha.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<20041019190851.GA6740@kostyrka.org>	<mailman.5190.1098212227.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1glxart.nyjrdkvdbv0qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41759589.4020501@pythonapocrypha.com>
Message-ID: <41759658.5020909@pythonapocrypha.com>

Dave Brueck wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
>> Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:16:01AM -0700, Jonathan  Ellis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Testing is good; preventing entire classes of errors from ever
>>>>> happening at all is better, particularly when you get large.  Avoiding
>>>>> connectedness helps, but that's not always possible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What classes of errors are completely avoided by "static typing" as
>>>> implemented by C++ (Java)? 
> 
> [somebody before me wrote the above, but it was attributed to me - could 
> have been my own fault while replying, but who knows...]

<sigh> Actually, I just miscounted the ">"s.

:)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 00:47:55 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:47:55 +0200
Subject: id() collisions on bound methods [was: metaclass and
	customization with parameters]
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F33@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
	<20041005235752.29723.1522463815.divmod.quotient.10124@ohm>
	<59e9fd3a04100517216b5bf323@mail.gmail.com>
	<864d370904100518566559f66e@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4406.1097030810.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2sjt67F1metb2U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1gl9x4o.1j1p7klolw9uN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

> Jeff Epler wrote:
> > In the Olden Days, "caching" bound methods would have led to cycles
> > that were never collected.  Nowadays, there's a cyclic GC collector,
> > so if that was the killer for this idea maybe it's worth revisiting.
> 
> Alternatively, creation of the bound method could be skipped
> altogether in the case where it's going to be immediately called.
> This could be achieved by having
> 
>     obj.meth(args)
> 
> generate a single CALL_METHOD opcode instead of an attribute
> lookup followed by a call.

Heh, I was musing about just this sort of thing earlier in another
thread (about Smalltalk 'message passing' vs Python's method access) --
but then on this very thread I posted some timing results that suggets
there's little to be gained in saving the boundmethod object creation
(or equivalently caching the boundmethod).  If we could somehow save the
_lookup_ overhead... but I don't think CALL_METHOD would help there (if
I'm just not seeing some possibility I'd love to be told about it!-).


Alex


From timr at probo.com  Thu Oct 14 04:07:15 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:07:15 -0700
Subject: Completely INNOCENT Indentation question
References: <1b347673.0410130532.63199a4a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4846.1097675256.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1b347673.0410131928.750bcde7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <apcsm09pt53hq77126d55879ff5qlht0jb@4ax.com>

scooterm at hotmail.com (valued customer) wrote:
>
>As far as 'why would anyone want to do that' one reason that 
>never fails is *personal preference* ... there probably isn't
>a stylistic or programming practice in existence that can't be 
>explained at least partially by that. Therefore if someone asks,
>there must be at least *that* reason.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to satisfy "personal preferences" for
spacing in a language where spacing is a fundamental part of the syntax.
It's somewhat similar to asking why # could not be used as a comment
character in C.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From zondervanz at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 21:52:54 2004
From: zondervanz at gmail.com (zipher)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 18:52:54 -0700
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b59a80.0410041752.763fa313@posting.google.com>

Thanks everyone who responded with such care to my message.

Mike Fletcher's suggestion hit my original intent and source of my
confusion right on the nose.  The suggestion seems so obvious now. 
But I am carefully reviewing the effects of Alex's hammer on my head
and may be reconsidering...

zipher


From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Wed Oct 13 11:09:57 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:09:57 -0400
Subject: sequence of objects
Message-ID: <ckjgg5$8h1$1@sea.gmane.org>

What is the recommended way to create a sequence of objects?  Assume the
objects have a default constructor:

class X:
  def __init__(self):
    something

This doesn't work:
a = 64*(X(),)

This creates a tuple of 64 copies of a single identical object, not 64
instances of X.

I could create an empty list, then call append (X()) 64 times, but that's
not very eligant (or maybe efficient).  Any suggestions?



From juneaftn1 at kornet.net  Tue Oct  5 09:54:15 2004
From: juneaftn1 at kornet.net (Changjune Kim)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 22:54:15 +0900
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted Data
	Chunk Efficiently
References: <ba1e306f.0410050436.59d455bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cju8tu$kmg$2@news1.kornet.net>

"Jane Austine" <janeaustine50 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ba1e306f.0410050436.59d455bf at posting.google.com...
> Peter L. Hansen wrote:
> >
> > Jane Austine wrote:
> > > I have student_names and their scores, which are between 0..100.
> > >
> > > I want to retrieve in the sorted order in terms of score, Nth
> > > student's name to N+10th student's name along with their scores.
> > > (suppose a web page showing top 10 students and there are "next page"
> > > link and if you follow the link there shows next top 10 students with
> > > "prev" and "next" page links.)
> > >
> > > The list is dynamically resized -- elements are added or deleted. The
> > > list could go fairly long enough that pulling all the data on memory
> > > at once is not a good choice.
> >
> > "Fairly long enough"?  I imagine you'd have to have thousands of
> > students before just doing the simplest thing (ignore performance
> > and read the whole list) would become a noticable problem.
>
> First of all, thank you for replying me.
>
> Yes, I do have more than a thousand.
>
> >
> > It's rare in an environment like the web, with all the user and
> > network delays that are present, that optimizing at the level
> > you are trying to do is worth the effort.
> >
>
> Yes. Especially when there are CPU load limits(process going on like a
> few seconds using more than 10% will get warning) on the server, and
> it is shared among a few users(using a web hosting service).
>
> > > What algorithm and data/file structure are most efficient? (the
> > > environment is "cgi" based web environment)
> >
> > And unless mod_python is involved, CGI adds yet another significant
> > delay, masking any slight difference in performance from the optimal
> > approach and the simplistic one.
> >
>
> True. So the situation is not very good, and that's why I need a
> clever scheme. :)
>
> > > Simplest approach would be using btree from bsddb.
> >
> > Nope, simplest would be just use a list and ignore the theoretical
> > but unnoticable performance issues.  Remember, the actual memory
> > allocation and manipulations of the list elements happens in C code,
> > not in Python, so it is very fast.
> >
> > > What can I do instead? What data structure allows you to access
> > > nth..n+10th data from the sorted list in a constant time?
> >
> > If you've got more than 1000 students, it _might_ be worth
> > analyzing this further. :-)
> >
>
> Actually, it's not exactly students. They are some kind of elements
> and they have a few attributes(columns) like timestamp and etc, and
> can be sorted by a few columns(single key sorting though).
>
> Most of the time I suppose the lists would grow up to 10000 ~ 90000
> elements.
>
> -Jane

If using standalone RDBMS engine(like MySQL) is not your choice, and you
want to stick to bsddb, take a look at test_basics.py in the lib/bsddb/test
directory. There you will see BTreeRecnoTestCase.






From Wolfgang.Stoecher at profactor.at  Fri Oct 15 18:47:36 2004
From: Wolfgang.Stoecher at profactor.at (Wolfgang.Stoecher at profactor.at)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:47:36 +0200
Subject: how to re-import changed code?
Message-ID: <OFBC6ED15B.3D68910F-ONC1256F2E.006C0A71-C1256F2E.007DA7C4@profactor.at>

Hi,

another beginner's question:
when I import a module, change the corresponding textfile and try to 
import the same module again, it looks like the internal code does not 
change (the source-line in an error-message is up to date, however!). Also 
del module before import and deleting the .pyc file do not help! How to 
realize a fast edit-try-cycle? (btw: I am using python 2.2 under windows)

thanks in advance!

Wolfgang


From syed_saqib_ali at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 13 02:24:54 2004
From: syed_saqib_ali at yahoo.com (Saqib Ali)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 23:24:54 -0700
Subject: How to catch exceptions elegantly in this situation?
References: <e431ae34.0410071913.15954ed5@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.10.08.02.50.53.714563@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <e431ae34.0410122224.25379264@posting.google.com>

Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.08.02.50.53.714563 at jerf.org>...
> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:13:06 -0700, Saqib Ali wrote:
> 
> 
> Can you give me more detail? What is the real problem?
> 


Sure.
The real issue is that I am doing some screen-scraping from on-line
white pages (residential telephone directory).

I have defined a bunch of regular expressions and myFunc() populates a
dictionary corresponding to each result from the white pages.

So essentially myDict corresponds to a single record found. See below

myDict["fullName"] = fullNameRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
myDict["telNum"] = telNumRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
myDict["streetAddr"] = streetAddrRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
myDict["city"] = cityRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
myDict["state"] = stateRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
myDict["zip"] = zipRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]


Sometimes one or more of these regexps fails to match. In which Case
an exception will be raised. I want to catch the exception, print out
a message..... but then keep on going to the next assignment
statement.


How can I do that without wrapping each assignment in its own
try/except block??







Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.08.02.50.53.714563 at jerf.org>...
> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:13:06 -0700, Saqib Ali wrote:
> 
> > Check out the following code fragment
> > 
> > Line  1: myDict = {}
> > Line  2: a = 5
> > Line  3: b = 2
> > Line  4: c = 0
> > Line  5: myDict["A"] = a + b + c
> > Line  6: myDict["B"] = a - b - c
> > Line  7: myDict["C"] = a * b * c
> > Line  8: myDict["D"] = a / b / c
> > Line  9: myDict["E"] = a ** b ** c
> > Line 10: ...<etc>...
> > Line 11: ...<etc>...
> > Line 12: ...<etc>...
> 
> Can you give me more detail? What is the real problem?
> 
> For example, for the code you give above, I think I would do:
> 
> import operator
> myDict = {}
> a = 5
> b = 2
> c = 0
> 
> def doOp(key, op):
>     try:
>         tmp = op(a, b)
>         myDict[key] = op(tmp, c)
>     except: # probably ought to narrow this down
>         pass
> 
> for key, op in (("A", operator.add), ("B", operator.sub),
>                 ("C", operator.mul), ("D", operator.div),
>                 ("E", operator.pow)):
>     doOp(key, op)
> 
> 
> but with a better idea of the problem domain I may be able to be more
> helpful.
> 
> Of course, this may start you on the path to a better idea.
> 
> Another, more generic possibility is to wrap your operations in a
> function, or a lambda, and pass them in to some object to be evaluated in
> a safe context. Depending on the domain, you may find a clever way to
> collapse the problem so it isn't so cumbersome. For my solution, I'm
> expecting that "...<etc>..." represents many more lines.
> 
> Oh, and unofficially, I recommend either "import operator as op" or "from
> operator import *". But you didn't hear that from me. (I find I'm slightly
> less "import *" phobic than many around here, if the module is a vital
> part of the flow of the code and net-net, the repeated invocation of the
> module name impedes reading the code. In the above fragment, I think
> "operator." meets that standard. If this were a small part of a large
> module, I wouldn't do it.)


From somewhere at on_earth.in_space  Tue Oct 19 02:34:19 2004
From: somewhere at on_earth.in_space (anonymous)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:34:19 -0700
Subject: module to ping a remote computer
Message-ID: <1098167660.152175@news-1.nethere.net>

Has anyone here created a module for pinging a remote computer via the ping
command and displaying a green/red led light button on the local computer
depending upon the response back?  This would be a very simple automatic
monitor.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 03:24:43 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:24:43 +0200
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <1glgszz.1bdbdrznq0598N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:19:22 -0400, dataangel wrote:
> > Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for detecting if
> > two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for strings shouldn't be
> > supported. Am I missing something?
> 
> The basic problem is that there is no obvious "xor on string" operation
> *in general*, even if you stipulate "bitwise". In particular, what does it
> mean to bitwise xor two different length strings?

What I, personally, would expect here, would be to leave the trailing
part of the longer string "untouched".  I.e., just like:

def bitwisexor(s1, s2):
    result = [ chr(ord(a) ^ ord(b)) for a, b in zip(s1, s2) ]
    # at most one of the following 2 stmts actually does anything:
    result.extend(s1[len(result):])
    result.extend(s2[len(result):])
  
    return ''.join(result)

I realize this is the same as imagining the shorter string to be
conceptually padded with as many '\x0' characters as needed -- that just
seems the only "intuitively natural" way to extend "sequence xor'ing" to
sequences of different length...


Alex


From siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk  Fri Oct 15 11:45:37 2004
From: siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk (Sion Arrowsmith)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 16:45:37 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Why does super take a class name as the argument?
References: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>
Message-ID: <vcl*OW-wq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

Chris Green  <cmg at dok.org> wrote:
>I've done a bit of searching in the language reference and a couple
>pages referring the behavior of super() but I can't find any
>discussion of why super needs the name of the class as an argument.

http://www.python.org/2.2.1/descrintro.html#mro and
http://www.python.org/2.2.1/descrintro.html#cooperation

>super(self).method() seems like super could just do the right
>thing...
>
>super(kls).method() could also work if you needed access up the tree
>to from a classmethod. Maybe I'm missing something with Metaclasses.

To try and summarise (and grossly simplify), consider:

class A(object):
    def method(self):
        pass

class B(A):
    def method(self):
        super(B, self).method()

class C(A):
    def method(self):
        super(C, self).method()

class D(B, C):
    def method(self):
        super(A, self).method()
        
If super worked just off self, how are the method()s in B and C
supposed to know that they should be calling A.method() (since
isinstance(self, D))? If super worked just off the class, both
B.method() and C.method() would call A.method() when called
from D.method(). So super needs to know both the class of self
and the class the method it is being used from belongs to. And
if you think the latter is easy for the compiler, consider

def generic_method(self):
    ...

B.method = generic_method

-- 
\S -- siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk -- http://www.chaos.org.uk/~sion/
  ___  |  "Frankly I have no feelings towards penguins one way or the other"
  \X/  |    -- Arthur C. Clarke
   her nu become? se bera eadward ofdun hl?ddre heafdes b?ce bump bump bump


From dody at postaccesslite.com  Mon Oct 18 01:07:30 2004
From: dody at postaccesslite.com (dody)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:07:30 +0700
Subject: Quran Translation (Indonesian)
Message-ID: <281800620.20041018120730@postaccesslite.com>

from AL-QURSU for WWW Project - (c) 1997, imam mujib
(12-08-1997)

converted to MySQL Insert:
http://miaw.tcom.ou.edu/~dody/quran/id-quran.sql.rar

converted to Python Module:
http://miaw.tcom.ou.edu/~dody/quran/qdb.py

Note: please check for validity in translation (I might miss
something on the data format conversion)

--
  dsw




From mr_rysiu at go2.pl  Sun Oct 31 06:06:00 2004
From: mr_rysiu at go2.pl (Krzysztof =?iso-8859-2?Q?Ksi=B1=BFek?=)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:06:00 +0100
Subject: py2exe and window with info about error
References: <el22e9rn34iw.dlg@cokolwiek.pl>
	<1099176956.695647.220690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <oygllag0mwah.dlg@cokolwiek.pl>

On 2004-10-30 23:55:56 steen wrote:

> I believe the best solution would be to catch the exception. Then you
> wont get any error messages at all :-)

Thx. It works.

Regards,
Krzysztof Ksiazek


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Oct 15 10:52:05 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:52:05 -0700
Subject: Why does super take a class name as the argument?
In-Reply-To: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>
References: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>
Message-ID: <416fe921$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Chris Green wrote:
> ... I can't find any
> discussion of why super needs the name of the class as an argument.
> 
> super(self).method() seems like super could just do the right
> thing...
It could "just do the right thing", but not as a function, only as a
compiler magic thingamiebob.  When methods are being translated, they
are ordinary function definitions, and the class for which they will
become a method does not exist.  By including the name of the class
itself, rather than the name of the (or a) super class, super can search
in the "mro" for the class, and find the next class in that order after
the given class.  "super" seems to me to have the "explicit is better
than implicit" flavor without forcing you to know the whole inheritance
structure.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From tim.leslie at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 01:16:16 2004
From: tim.leslie at gmail.com (Tim Leslie)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:16:16 +1000
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410262000.6e34568f@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<940ee3e8.0410262000.6e34568f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d32b4535041026221676da3a9c@mail.gmail.com>

> 
> the required range, while being different for different variables, is
> generally is less than 2**31 - & *that* can be checked by the
> language.
> 

I was trying to write a program which counted the number of times
people made stupid arguments on this list so I wrote a python program
to do it. Unfortunately you came along and caused my variable to
overflow. How was I to know I'd go above that magic number? Life sure
would be easier if ints which got too large were seamlessly converted
to longs!

-- Tim

> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 13 17:55:09 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:55:09 GMT
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckjkf6$amt$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4882.1097690854.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416da341.185099288@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:07:32 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:18:02 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
>> 
>> > executed (which count() can guarantee). There are two situations where
>> > the simpler counter works, but the getframe hack doesn't:
>> >
>> > -- if I have a loop inside my class that is used to declare bunch of
>> > attributes, all of them will have the same line number... but a
>> > different sequence number if the simpler method is chosen.
>> >
>> > -- if a function is called that returns a bunch of attributes (not
>> > common practice, but still possible). All attributes are at the same
>> > line in this case. Example:
>> >
>> > class Foo:
>> > a,b,c = myfunc(...)
>> 
>> Do you have an example handy? I had so far no success breaking Bengt's code.
>
>Ok. Just as an exercise -- at this point we're far from safe Python
>land anyway, and it's not recommended to push it beyond this limit...
>;-) Pseudo code only:
>
>class Foo:
>    # loop that creates attributes out of a list
>    for name, val in list:
>        locals()[name] = val
>
Sure, the compiler has to see the names in order for them to get into co_names in the frame.

>or (actual code tested):
>
>>>> class Bar:
>... 	a,b,c,d = (1,2,3,4)
>... 	
>>>> vars(Bar)
>{'a': 1, '__module__': '__main__', 'b': 2, 'd': 4, 'c': 3, '__doc__': None}
>
>The ordering became (a,b,d,c); and the code would have no way to tell
>that 'c' was supposed to be classified before 'd', because the
>getframe trick would return the same line.
>
The "getframe trick" (if you mean my hack ;-) is not using line numbers,
so I don't know what you mean:

 >>> class C(object):
 ...     __metaclass__ = MC # really a function shortcut
 ...     a,b,c,d = (1,2,3,4)
 ...     ordic = getnames()
 ...
 >>> C.ordic
 {'a': 2, 'ordic': 6, '__module__': 0, 'b': 3, '__metaclass__': 1, 'd': 5, 'c': 4}

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jonathan.wright at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 08:54:00 2004
From: jonathan.wright at gmail.com (Jon Wright)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 05:54:00 -0700
Subject: Cleanly end a thread with blocked i/o in win32?
References: <56b071ab.0410211035.440de0ef@posting.google.com>
	<9418be08.0410211806.5b24d3b4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <56b071ab.0410220454.7e087e3b@posting.google.com>

elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev) wrote in message 
> jonathan.wright at gmail.com (Jon Wright) wrote in message 
>
> > Trying to work around the lack of pexpect for native windows python I
> > had a play with os.popen2 and some threads. This looks promising
> 
> Just curiosity: why did you try using UNIX methods in win32?

I am after a particular functionality - I don't care what methods are
used; I just want to save myself repetitively typing crap into a
program and only answer the interesting questions it asks. Starting
another program and communicating programmatically via stdin and
stdout (usually defined in a language specification) is a convenience
for any multitasking os. Your suggestion helps a great deal however -
one just needed to know the translation into win32 for 'kill'. In my
case this seems sufficient:

def kill_win32(child):
   import win32api, win32con
   child.stdin.close() # should really check if this is open etc
   handle = win32api.OpenProcess(win32con.PROCESS_TERMINATE,
0,[child.pid])
   win32api.CloseHandle(handle)
   child.stdout.close() # ditto
   # error handling

Doubtless other children would resist this and some stronger magic
could be needed to snuff them out?

Perhaps this would be a useful thing to put into the "subprocess.py"
module which I think has now become part of the standard library...?
Probably a windows expert can do much better, and eventually lines
saying if win32 do this, if unix do that. Does that need a PEP or a
patch or is someone going to tell me why it shouldn't be there? Maybe
calling it "child.try_to_kill()" is enough to indicate that it won't
always work?

> To prove that windows isn't unix?

Thanks for your comment. Highly motivating. I now have roughly the
functionality I wanted on both platforms. You hint at the idea that
there is a way to achieve the goal via "win32 methods". I am still
extremely curious to know what these methods might be, I only found
stories that they don't exist in the general case of win32 console io.
Since cygwin python has pty/pexpect modules and runs under win32 the
"proof" fails by contradication?


Jon


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Oct 31 00:37:37 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Oct 2004 00:37:37 -0400
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<Z8Mgd.8520$Es2.172559@twister2.libero.it>
	<pan.2004.10.30.18.40.19.137063@jerf.org>
	<10o821fqaiahu31@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cm1q6h$dkj$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <10o821fqaiahu31 at news.supernews.com>,
John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>
>I suspect that the performance issue is being clouded by the
>reference counting mechanism in CPython. Modern garbage collectors
>are reputedly significantly faster. If Python 3.0 removes reference
>counting it might speed up substantially. Note that IronPython is
>reported to run at the same (or better) speed as CPython, even
>though the CLR is not optimized for running scripting languages.

IronPython also doesn't have to worry about random C libraries.  That's
one reason why refcounting works better in CPython.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From dd55 at cornell.edu  Thu Oct 14 10:36:51 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:36:51 -0400
Subject: question on list comprehensions
Message-ID: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

Hi,

I need to replace the following loop with a list comprehension:

res=[0]
for i in arange(10000):
 res[0]=res[0]+i

In practice, res is a complex 2D numarray. For this reason, the regular
output of a list comprehension will not work: constructing a list of every
intermediate result will result in huge hits in speed and memory.

I saw this article at ASPN:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/204297

def thislist():
    """Return a reference to the list object being constructed by the
    list comprehension from which this function is called. Raises an
    exception if called from anywhere else.
    """
    import sys
    d = sys._getframe(1).f_locals
    nestlevel = 1
    while '_[%d]' % nestlevel in d:
        nestlevel += 1
    return d['_[%d]' % (nestlevel - 1)].__self__

Could the list comprehension include something like thislist().pop(0), to be
called when len(thislist)>1? (I think this could work, but am having
trouble with the syntax.) Or is there a better way to approach the problem?

Thank you,

Darren


From abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Wed Oct 27 13:26:14 2004
From: abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Ajay)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 03:26:14 +1000
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
Message-ID: <1098897974.417fda36e697f@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>

hi!

is there an authoritative source on the performance of scripting languages
such as python vs. something like java, c, c++.

its for a report, so it would be awesome if i could quote some well-known
authority on this.

thanks

cheers





----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 28 16:20:24 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 20:20:24 GMT
Subject: Newbie trying to install pygsear
References: <mailman.5627.1098988652.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41813fa5$0$33073$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5633.1098994430.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41815488$0$33038$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-28, Glen <stygian at tesco.net> wrote:

>> You need to install the libpython2.3-devel package.
>> 
>> Log in as root, and run the command "urpmi libpython2.3-devl"
>>   or
>> Start rpmdrake and do the pointy/clicky thing.  
>
> Thanks, 'pointy/clicky' worked great!

If only it didn't take rpmdrake a half-hour to start up and
fifteen minutes to re-scan for packages after every operation.
[Okay, so I exaggerate a little, but that program feels awfully
slow.]

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Why is it that when
                                  at               you DIE, you can't take
                               visi.com            your HOME ENTERTAINMENT
                                                   CENTER with you??


From nomail at no.way  Tue Oct 26 13:51:17 2004
From: nomail at no.way (Bats)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:51:17 +0200
Subject: Fedora 1 and Eric3
References: <cldm39$qo7$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <clfgq2$5hs$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<qKPed.292$rs5.51451@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <clm2lr$h7q$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Markus Wankus had this to say:
> Well.. I can give you feedback but it is kind of useless.  I have found
> that no matter what distro I used - Fedora 1 or otherwise - getting that
> program to work (along with all of its seemingly circular dependencies)
> was a very unpleasant experience and one I never succeeded at.  There is
> something to be said for the simplicity of Windows installers...
> 
> All I can say is keep trying, and Google this newsgroup.  This has come
> up here before - you are not alone...

Ah - I wondered about that... :) 
I have tried Eric three times. RH9, Fedora 1 (twice, between formats) and I
still cannot get it going.

I won't even get into my WxWindows/Python woes at the moment. Suffice to say
that I am in another version hell-loop.

Sheesh.

-- 
Bats
~..~
(I can only post on weekends and rare times during the week.)



From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 03:13:11 2004
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:13:11 +0100
Subject: Python utility convert Windows long file name into 8.3 DOS
	format
In-Reply-To: <4C0gd.20216$R05.13225@attbi_s53>
References: <4C0gd.20216$R05.13225@attbi_s53>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c604102800131363f378@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 06:47:28 GMT, Ben Kial <benkial at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a Python program to convert Windows long filename, like "c:\Program
> Files" into the old DOS 8.3 format, like "c:\Progra~1"?

>>> import win32api
>>> win32api.GetShortPathName('D:/share/from_roadwarrior/simon/python/RandomizeScreenSaver/RandomizeScreenSaver.pyw')
'D:/share/FROM_R~1/simon/python/RANDOM~1/RANDOM~1.PYW'

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon.brunning at gmail.com,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From jelle.feringa at ezct.net  Tue Oct  5 11:20:13 2004
From: jelle.feringa at ezct.net (Jelle Feringa // EZCT / Amsterdam)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:20:13 +0200
Subject: python / mathematica
Message-ID: <20041005151914.984CA1BFD3D4@mwinf0102.wanadoo.fr>

I'm curious to know whether there are people using Mathematica and Python in
conjunction.
I need to automate my workflow, and for this I intend to use Python. For
instance to be able to transfer data from Mathematica to modeling /
rendering softs such as Mental Ray or Maya.
I've been in touch with David Konderding, who developend the Python /
Mathlink package, which is not being developend anymore, but looks like an
option. But I'd like to know what my options are. 
 
Cheers,
 
Jelle.
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From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Wed Oct 27 00:11:27 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 04:11:27 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410251937.5355a8c7@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5479.1098763359.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<940ee3e8.0410261950.5a066c25@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncnu7vf.tiv.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On 26 Oct 2004 20:50:58 -0700, kartik <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> not arbitrary limits, but ones that catch bugs.

Please give an example of some code containing such a bug which
would be caught by integer limits but not caught by the unit tests
someone who has been programming for only a week would write.

-- 
Sam Holden


From richie at entrian.com  Fri Oct  8 05:20:29 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:20:29 +0100
Subject: Simple Python web proxy stalls for some web sites
In-Reply-To: <1Vn9d.25933$QJ3.12295@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
References: <41649d0e@post.usenet.com>
	<mailman.4499.1097155423.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1Vn9d.25933$QJ3.12295@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <hkmcm0t215el92hj9uj4bc4khv7bdcjlct@4ax.com>


[Richie]
> By default, urllib2 specifies "User-Agent: Python-urllib/x.y"  Some
> sites, Google included, reject this because they don't like to be
> web-scraped.

[Bryan]
> Google dis' Python?  No way!

Way, I'm afraid.

> I checked, and Google is answering in good faith.

Try doing an actual query:

>>> import urllib2
>>> f = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.google.com/")  # Works OK
>>> f = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.google.com/search?q=python")
Traceback (most recent call last):
[...]
urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden
>>>

This is probably not the problem you're facing right now, but it will be
a problem when you solve your current one.  8-)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 14:08:01 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 18:08:01 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <mailman.5434.1098721633.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417d4101$0$45517$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-25, Michael Sparks <zathras at thwackety.com> wrote:

>> "import someGPLdmodule"
>>
>> Makes my _source_code_ a derived work, and therefore must be
>> GPL'd?  That just doesn't sound right.
>
> Depends. If you pull in and use a specific GPL module, then yes, it is
> GPL'd. If you don't distribute said GPL module, and you can show
> reasonable doubt whether:
>
>    import foo
>
> imports the GPL foo or the non-GPL foo

Placing that line in my source code does neither.  It's an
instruction to the Python VM which will *at some point in the
future* import that module.

> (say 2 files both independently implemented to a common test
> suite for a standard), then it's much more woolley.
>
> After all if "foo" on the target system is from (say) a BSD'd
> implementation and your code uses that, then your code isn't GPL
> (obviously). If "foo" on the target system is (say) a GPL'd
> implementation and your code uses that, then your code does have
> to be GPL.

But, my souce code doesn't include or contain _either_ of the
foo modules.  The import doesn't happen until the program is
run.

> Put another way, if your code is shipped in the py2exe bundle
> with GPL'd code and your code will not run without it, then
> its a derivative work in the terms of the GPL.

Possibly.  That depends on whether you view what py2exe does as
"linking the two" or "mere aggregation".  AFAIK, there is no
linkage between the two .pyc modules until runtime.
Zipping/tarring up my .pyc module with a GPL'd module seems to
me to be pretty much what's described as "mere aggregation" --
except for the fact that my module isn't useful without the
GPL'd module.

However, what if my code is shipped without the GPL'd code.
What if I ship my souce (or a compiled module) alone.  Is it a
derived work do solely to the fact that the user will at some
point in the future use my my .pyc with a GPL'd module?

> However you can still hit this if the py2exe bundle has to use
> GPL'd code even if you don't distribute it - for example if
> it's the only implementation that python will bind the names
> to at run time because the only implementation available is
> GPL.
>
> (These issues are generally why the LGPL was created in the
> first place if you're going HUH???!!?!)

Yup.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Will it improve my
                                  at               CASH FLOW?
                               visi.com            


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Tue Oct 12 15:49:19 2004
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:49:19 +0200
Subject: [ZOPE] with links in Products ?
In-Reply-To: <ck70km$je$1@paperboy.Austria.EU.net>
References: <ck70km$je$1@paperboy.Austria.EU.net>
Message-ID: <416c3337$0$28028$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Bruno HIrsnik a ?crit :
> If i make a symblic link in the Products folder to a add on this doesn't
> work.
> If i move the directory to the Products folder all works correct, what make
> i
> wrong ?
> 
> wbr
> Bruno Hirsnik
> 
> 
Try posting this on Zope mailing list.


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Sun Oct 10 10:05:46 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 07:05:46 -0700
Subject: pyQt
In-Reply-To: <opsfnp6elz8wm9vx@fred>
References: <opsfnp6elz8wm9vx@fred>
Message-ID: <ckbfjq$lbh$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Paul Drummond wrote:
> Hi guys, newbie here - is it ok to post pyQt questions here?
> 
> I know there is a mailing list for pyKDE but I can't find a specific 
> pyQt  newsgroup.

Don't let the name fool you. It's also for PyQt. It should be the first 
place to ask PyQt questions.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From indigo at bitglue.com  Wed Oct 13 21:09:00 2004
From: indigo at bitglue.com (Phil Frost)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:09:00 -0400
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <864d3709041013162473ccf127@mail.gmail.com>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<864d3709041013162473ccf127@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041014010900.GB3025@unununium.org>

On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 08:24:48PM -0300, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> ...
> 
> Now, let me re-state your question in a broader sense. Is it possible
> to write an OS using a language such as Python? Yes. But the resulting
> OS will surely be different from Linux -- by design it would be a
> completely different beast. Some parts would still be written in C and
> assembler, because it needs to access the hardware, and also for
> performance reasons. But an API could be devised to allow higher-level
> functions to be written in Python, while calling the low-level
> C+assembler stuff. But as I said, it's _so_ completely different from
> anything else in use today as to make it pretty much a theorethical or
> academic exercise with little practical use. I can't see a project
> like that taking off, even if I would love to see it working.

I can state from first-hand experience that this idea is not too
far-fetched. It is possible to enable Python to express device drivers
and low level OS functions like multitasking with an amazingly small
amount of C+asm; I'd say around 2000 lines, excluding the Python
runtime. If Pyrex counts as not-C, then I bet it could be done in 500.

The performance problems are a bit harder, but with a good JIT compiling
VM the runtime performance of Python could theoretically come very close
to C.

I do agree though that there is little point in rewriting Linux in
Python. The advantage in Python is its expressiveness, but by rewriting
an existing system you gain nothing.


From ax178 at wp.pl  Sat Oct 16 05:43:08 2004
From: ax178 at wp.pl (vertigo)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:43:08 +0200
Subject: undefined variable ?
Message-ID: <ckqqlb$l0v$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Hello
How can i check if variable named var1 exists ?

Thanx
Michal


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Oct 11 17:34:43 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:34:43 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <V8SdnRfq9bLtQvfcRVn-vg@comcast.com>
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
	<MNCdnR9olpAhWvTcRVn-pg@comcast.com>
	<JcmdnQnFT5NhH_fcRVn-tg@giganews.com>
	<V8SdnRfq9bLtQvfcRVn-vg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <8-ydnZX55r3oYffcRVn-vw@giganews.com>

Doug Holton wrote:

>  That makes it faster (100 times faster on a recent Mandelbrot test)

Just out of curiosity

--- speed.py ---
x = []
for i in range(1000):
   for j in range(1000):
     x.append(j)

--- speed.boo ---
x = []
for i in range(1000):
   for j in range(1000):
     x.Add(j)

---

dino /home/down/boo/bin $ time python speed.py
real    0m2.217s

---

dino /home/down/boo/bin $ booc speed.boo
dino /home/down/boo/bin $ time speed.exe
real    0m2.417s

This does not appear to indicate that boo is any faster
than python...

Istvan.


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 09:00:38 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 06:00:38 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <mailman.5538.1098846078.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clngtp$tat$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410270500.701ee156@posting.google.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:<clngtp$tat$02$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> kartik vaddadi wrote:
> 
> >> Overflow errors are not automated tests.
> > 
> > why not? they detect bugs.
> 
> According to that logic your users will be automated tests, too...

Sorry for the wrong terminology, but what all I meant was what
overflow errors detect bugs without you having to write code for that.
-kartik


From ronb at not.here  Thu Oct 28 16:17:14 2004
From: ronb at not.here (Ron Beitel)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:17:14 GMT
Subject: FTP file creation date
References: <de8687be.0410270727.12eb2d3b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <suk2o0hauucul1rp6iatqvlegsftm31709@4ax.com>

Eugene,

To test for the latest version of a file on the ftpserver, 
use the ftplib.sendcmd() method with the '4-character'
ftp command for modtime.

#!/usr/bin/python
import ftplib

ftp = ftplib.FTP("ftp.mysite.org")
f.login("anonymous", "my at email.com")

# MDTM is an abbreviated '4-char' ftp command
modtime = f.sendcmd("MDTM file.name")

# Strip off the 'reply code'
if modtime[:3] = "213":
    modtime = modtime[3:].strip()


Refer to RFC 959 - File Transfer Protocal 
    http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc959.html

Section4.1 lists the abbreviated ftp commands,
however, 'SIZE' and 'MDTM' are not covered in the RFC
Section4.2.1 covers the Reply Codes.

For examples on using f.sendcmd(), check the module's 
source code /usr/lib/python2.2/ftplib.py
Especially, look at the definitions for
	def size()
	def nlst()


If you're not concerned with portability, you could modify
your systems copy of the library.  Add....

def modtime(self, filename):
    '''Retrieve the modtime of a file.'''
    resp = self.sendcmd('MDTM ' + filename)
    if resp[:3] == '213'
        s = resp[3:].strip()
    return s

Then in your program, you can just say
t = f.modtime("file.name")

Ron Beitel


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Tue Oct 19 17:17:40 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:17:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <mailman.5194.1098218306.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glxe78.2hkiiz189zdilN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cl409j$kdm$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Frohnhofer, James <james.frohnhofer at csfb.com> wrote:

>> Why do you say 'simple-minded'?

> Why do you top-post?

Be civil.  There are those who prefer it, in some cases.  If you don't
like it, don't do it.


From kent at springfed.com  Sat Oct 16 18:39:32 2004
From: kent at springfed.com (Kent Tenney)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:39:32 -0500
Subject: viewing pydoc output in FireFox
Message-ID: <cks809$til$1@sea.gmane.org>

Howdy,

On Win2000, I run;
 > python pydoc -p 8181

and view http://localhost:8181, click on a link such as
http://localhost:8181/os.html in the c:\python23\lib section.

In the corner is a link to the source file
<a href="file:///C|/python23/lib/os.py">c:\python23\lib\os.py</a>

clicking the link does nothing.

What do I need to do so that the source file is opened
in FireFox?

Thanks,
Kent



From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct 26 01:46:51 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:46:51 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on multi-CPU hardware? (see POSH - Python shared
 objects)
In-Reply-To: <2u5nslF2601mqU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<2u5nslF2601mqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <fxlfd.7571$KJ6.7262@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Jon Perez wrote:
> POSH (Python Object sharing) allows Python objects
> to be placed in shared memory and accessed transparently
> between different Python processes.
   ...
> POSH has actually been around for quite a while, so I wonder
> why it has not been mentioned more often.

How often should it be mentioned?  I mentioned it twice
early this month.  The previous mentions were in August,
then April, then January, then ...

Huh.  But I see I mention it the most, so I'm biased.

The major problem I have with it is its use of Intel
specific assembly, generated (I as I recall) through
gcc-specific inline code.  I run OS X.

So the only people who would use it are Python developers
running on a multi-proc Intel machine with Linux/*BSD
who have compute intensive jobs and aren't interested
in portability.  And don't prefer the dozen+ other more
mature/robust solutions.

I suspect that might be a small number.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From maxm at mxm.dk  Sun Oct 10 17:07:38 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:07:38 +0200
Subject: Hello
In-Reply-To: <f1b4f$41694ef8$53e8229a$629@freeler.nl>
References: <f1b4f$41694ef8$53e8229a$629@freeler.nl>
Message-ID: <4169a464$0$254$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

jwaixs wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> This mail is just to say welcome to everybody. Because I never 
> used Usernet before. I think I will look like a real n00b now. 

Welcome,

But you should know that there are plenty of "test" groups, if you are 
unsure about your setup working.

> jwaixs (is this nickname alright, or do you prefer my real name?)


Nicknames are fine. As long as they are not *really* offending, I don't 
think anybody cares.


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  6 07:38:17 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:38:17 +0100
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>	<cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <WOQ8d.32865$Z14.12045@news.indigo.ie>

[Andreas Kostyrka]
 > So basically you either get a really huge number of locks (one per
 > object) with enough potential for conflicts, deadlocks and all the
 > other stuff to make it real slow down the ceval.
 >
 > One could use less granularity, and lock say the class of the object
 > involved, but that wouldn't help that much either.
 >
 > So basically the GIL is a design decision that makes sense, perhaps it
 > shouldn't be just called the GIL, call it the "very large locking
 > granularity design decision".

Reading the above, one might be tempted to conclude that presence of the 
GIL in the cpython VM is actually a benefit, and perhaps that all 
language interpreters should have one!

But the reality is that few other VMs have selected to employ such a 
"very large locking granularity design decision". If one were to believe 
the arguments about the problems of fine-grained locking, one might be 
tempted to conclude that other VMs such as the JVM and the CLR are 
incapable of competing with the cpython VM, in terms of performance. But 
Jim Hugunin's pre-release figures for IronPython performance indicate 
that it can, in some cases, outperform cpython while running on just a 
single processor, let alone when multiple processors are available. And 
that is for an "interpreter running on an interpreter".

CPython's GIL does give a *small* performance benefit, but only when 
there is a single execution pipeline. Once there is more than one 
pipeline, it degrades performance.

As I've already stated, I believe the benefits and trade-offs of the GIL 
are arguable either way when there is a small number of processors 
involved, e.g. 2 or less. But if chip makers are already producing chips 
with 2 execution pipelines, then you can be sure it won't too be long 
before they are shipping units with 4, 8, 16, 32, etc, execution 
pipelines. As this number increases, the GIL will increasingly become a 
restrictive bottleneck.

Contrarily, jython, ironpython, etc, will continue to benefit from the 
enormous and massively-resourced optimisation efforts going into the JVM 
and CLR respectively (e.g. JIT compilation), all without a single change 
to the python code or the code interpreting it.

Lastly, as the number of execution pipelines in CPUs grow, what will 
happen if/when they start talking back and forth to each, 
transputer-style, instead of executing mostly isolated and in parallel 
as they do today? Transputers[1] had the lovely concept of high-speed 
hardware communication channels cross-linking all CPUs in the "array". 
The reason this model never really took off back in the 80's was because 
there were no familiar high-level language models for exploiting it, 
besides Occam[2].

IMHO, new python concepts such as generators are precisely the right 
high-level concepts for enabling transputer style fine-granularity, 
inter-execution-pipeline, on-demand, "pull" comms. This would put python 
at an enormous conceptual advantage compared to other mainstream 
languages, which generally don't have generator-style concepts. What a 
shame that the GIL would restrict only one such CPU at a time to 
actually be running python code.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan

[1] Transputer architecture
http://www.cmpe.boun.edu.tr/courses/cmpe511/fall2003/transputer.ppt

[2] Occam programming language
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Occam%20programming%20language


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 04:21:30 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 01:21:30 -0700
Subject: Internet Explorer Bars From Python
References: <6f402501.0410120703.12e5b8e7@posting.google.com>
	<r7o39aly.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410130021.177ffa35@posting.google.com>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote in message news:<r7o39aly.fsf at python.net>...
> fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) writes:
> 
> > I've been looking at a couple of Internet Explorer plugins. E.g.
> > http://www.cheztabor.com/SourceTree/index.htm *or*
> > http://www.blunck.info/iehttpheaders_workings.html  . I wondered if
> > anyone had done anything like this using COM and Mark Hammonds
> > extensions ?
> >
> > Anyone got any example code ?
> 
> AFAIK, pywin32 doesn't wrap the needed interfaces, but I may be wrong.
> But ctypes has an explorer bar sample.

Ah.. nice one. I shall have to have a play with it :-)

Thanks
Fuzzy


> 
> Thomas


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Oct 11 11:28:50 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:28:50 +0200
Subject: Alternatives for pickle?
In-Reply-To: <slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <416aa6b3$0$42417$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> So how do you serialize data in python, when you want
> a somewhat secure mechanisme. Preferably where a user
> can make a puzzle file by hand in a text editor.

There's a YAML module for Python, although if I recall
correctly this module also suffers from security issues.

You could try Gnosis utils xml pickling or the xml marshaler
from the pyxml package. They're slow, but safe.

--Irmen



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Oct 22 00:29:49 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:29:49 -0500
Subject: .ini file parser (ConfigParser)
Message-ID: <41788CBD.7060609@colorstudy.com>

I've written a simple parser for .ini files; it's not a replacement for 
ConfigParser, but you could build such a module ontop of it fairly 
easily, or you could build something either more or less complicated.

svn://colorstudy.com/home/ianb/config/
http://colorstudy.com/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/home/ianb/config/

For instance, here's the code to parse an ini file into a nested 
dictionary, like {'section': {'var1': ['value1']}}:


class BasicParser(INIParser):

     def __init__(self):
         self.data = {}

     def assignment(self, name, content):
         if not self.section:
             self.parse_error(
                 'Assignments can only occur inside sections; no '
                 'section has been defined yet')
         section = self.data.setdefault(self.section, {})
         section.setdefault(name, []).append(content)

usage:

p = BasicParser()
p.feed('config.ini')
data = p.data

... though generally the parser should be a non-public implementation 
detail in a config library.  Anyway, not a lot of code, but I think it's 
a good piece for building different config parsers. both simple and complex.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  / http://blog.ianbicking.org


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct  9 23:26:17 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 03:26:17 GMT
Subject: help me
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4654.1097378388.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>	<3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>	<mailman.4646.1097373842.5135.python-list@python.org>	<hZidnVmZ96NBOfXcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>	<4168A974.7010405@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4654.1097378388.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tZ1ad.8030$UP1.7643@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

dataangel wrote:
> Well, I remember looking up the exec keyword and it saying executes a 
> string. Thus, it seemed like the normal way to execute a string, lol.

But why did that seem like it should be the normal way
to do variable assignment to global?

BTW, locals() doesn't work like you want in part because
that prevents a performance optimization where local
variable lookups are done in O(1) time as an offset
into a fixed size table.  I suppose it would be possible
to have locals() be able to manipulate that table behind
the scenes, but then that would be complicated and complex.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From bruno at octantis.com.br  Sat Oct 23 17:54:55 2004
From: bruno at octantis.com.br (Bruno R. Dias)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:54:55 -0300
Subject: Interesting coding idea
Message-ID: <2tvup4F24iddjU1@uni-berlin.de>

Perhaps it would be interesting to program a virtual machine simulating 
an ancient computer (such as the pdp-7). Then, it would be rather 
interesting to code for it (porting gcc to it maybe?). I think it would 
be fun to play with the long-forgotten art of coding in machine language.

And what about a fictional computer, such as one that works on an 
entirely different way (such as a non-binary computer)?

It wouldn't be very useful, but it wouold be a very fun and very 
interesting thing to hack on.

-- 
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/E/L d-- s+:+ a--- C++ UL+ P--- L++>+++ E W++ N+ o+ K++ w---
!O M-- V--PS++ PE++ Y>+ PGP>+ t++(+++) 5? X R+ tv@ b+++@ DI++++ D--- G+ 
e- h! r-- y
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Thu Oct 14 04:30:31 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:30:31 +0200
Subject: Multithreaded tkinter GUI application exception handling
In-Reply-To: <BFRad.23545$5O5.22396@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <BFRad.23545$5O5.22396@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <416e3763$0$26720$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Michael Zhang wrote:
> My project uses Python-2.3.4 + Tkinter + PIL-1.1.4 to retrieve images 
> from server and display those images.
> 
> I created a thread (also a separate toplevel window) for displaying 
> images and another thread for recording the frame rates (using a 
> progress bar for visulization). The whole application worked very well 
> once it received image data from the socket.
> 
> The problem is when I tried to close that display window (click on the 
> standard "X" button on the right-upper corner), I got this exception:
> 
> --------
> Exception in thread Thread-1:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/threading.py", line 436, in __bootstrap
>     self.run()
>   File "realtime.py", line 188, in run
>     UI(self.master)
>   File "realtime.py", line 238, in __init__
>     self.canvas.create_image(0, 0, image=self.image, anchor=NW)
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2060, in 
> create_image
>     return self._create('image', args, kw)
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2049, in _create
>     return getint(self.tk.call(
> TclError: invalid command name ".1080883980.1080884908"
> ---------

Not knowing your application exactly, I can only guess what's happening: it 
seems that your secondary thread is not aware that the window is closed and it 
still tries to draw things in a canvas that has already been destroyed (module 
realtime.py, line 238, according to the traceback).

So you should either make sure your secondary thread is stopped before the 
window is closed, or enclose the canvas.create_image in a try except handling 
the TclError. This last solution is far from optimal, since any mistake in a 
Tkinter call always raises a TclError, so you may catch other errors as well. 
I'd go for the first, using for example an Event (in module threading) to 
indicate the window is closed.

> Then after I closed the main windows, I got another exception:
> 
> ---------
> Exception in thread Thread-2:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/threading.py", line 436, in __bootstrap
>     self.run()
>   File "realtime.py", line 198, in run
>     self.bar.updateProgress(i)
>   File "/home/michael/usyd/soft3700/py/realtime/progressbar.py", line 
> 73, in updateProgress
>     self.update()
>   File "/home/michael/usyd/soft3700/py/realtime/progressbar.py", line 
> 91, in update
>     float(value) / self.max * self.width, self.height)
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2039, in coords
>     self.tk.splitlist(
> TclError: invalid command name 
> ".1080881420.connectionPane.1080883148.1080883340"
> ---------
> 
> Why is the "TclError"? How can I handle those exceptions and exit the 
> applicaton gracefully?

Same problem here, this time for the progress bar apparently: you try to do 
things in a widget that is already destroyed.

BTW, mixing Tkinter calls in several threads is not a good idea: Tkinter is not 
thread-safe and I experienced quite a lot of crashes when trying to do that. The 
best solution I could find was to handle all the GUI stuff in the main thread 
and make the secondary threads post events in Tkinter's event queue via the 
event_generate method to serialize things at GUI level. I'm quite surprised to 
hear that you succeeded in making things work, but be aware that you may 
experience weird crashes in the future...

> Could someone help me out about those thread stuff? Thanks!
> 
> Michael

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Oct 14 12:23:02 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:23:02 -0700
Subject: UDP server socket
References: <mailman.4934.1097757424.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<XbadnXX6vvm75PPcRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4942.1097760523.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-964DCD.09230214102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.4942.1097760523.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 Ajay <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
...
> my question is whether the socket buffers incoming packets, what is the
> size of the buffer and is there any way of increasing it.
> If not, a solution may be to carry the processing in another thread, but
> thats going to increase the overhead (the app. is for a PDA).

I assume you're testing and encountering this result on a PDA, too.
I have never worked with one myself, but I assume that a platform
with more limited resources like that will naturally make more
conservative assumptions about the necessary size of buffers and
so forth.

In a simple test on MacOS X, I find that a stopped server can
wake up and process 100 or so datagrams that had been previously
sent to it, of sort of random length between 1 and 74 bytes.
I expect it could handle a lot more than that, and the same
would be true of any PC or server class Berkeley UNIX or similar.
Of course you would think the datagrams' size would have something
to do with it.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Oct 14 07:51:05 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:51:05 +0200
Subject: Is there something like Zoe in Python
References: <416e5e1d@news.mt.net.mk>
Message-ID: <cklp77$tat$03$1@news.t-online.com>

?????? ??????????? wrote:

> Zoe is an application written in Java that is also a SMTP/POP/WEB server
> that sits between your normal mail user agent (Thunderbird, mutt or
> Outlook) and the rest of the world. Every mail you've received or sent is
> stored and indexed in Zoe, so that you can perform searches (ala Google)
> on your own mail database, via its web interface.
> 
> I was wondering if there's something similar but written in Python.

Not to my knowledge - I searched on such tools a while ago, and found ZOE to
be a great application. It shouldn't be too hard to create such an app
based on ZOPE and the usual standard libs - but I certainly don't have the
time to do it :)
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct  2 00:57:26 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 04:57:26 GMT
Subject: A newbie in more need....
References: <9c3edc58.0409302034.54f93dd2@posting.google.com>
	<_PmdnZJ4xYsuzsDcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <cjlcfm$737$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:55:15 -0400, Peter L Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>Chris Patton wrote:
>> I am writing a program that writes a number of classes, which are all
>> fundementally the same thing. The only thing that is different is the
>> names. Therefore, I need to write a bunch of classes in the quickest
>> time I can. Here's what I was thinking of:
Why didn't you _try_ your own code, Chris? It wouldn't have taken any more typing ;-)

>> 
>> num = 1
>> while num < 20:
>>       exec 'class bug'+num+':'
>>       exec '      gender = "m"'
>>       exec '      size = 0'
>>       exec '      skill = 0'
>> 
>> Obviously, the "exec" statement severley slows the time it takes to
>> write these classes. I need a new method! If possible I would like to
>> avoid the use of the "exec" statement alltogether.
I guess you did avoid it, since otherwise you would at least have discovered

 >>> num = 1
 >>> while num < 20:
 ...     exec 'class bug'+num+':'
 ...     exec '      gender = "m"'
 ...     exec '      size = 0'
 ...     exec '      skill = 0'
 ...
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 2, in ?
 TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects

-- for starters. If you don't do your part, you can expect people to lose interest
in helping you. Another pointer: If you are new to town, you can ask an old taxi driver
how certain streets connect, and he can answer, but if you have an address to go to, tell
him that. You'll generally get there faster ;-)

>
>for i in range(1, 20):
>     class _proto:
>         gender = "m"
>         size = 0
>         skill = 0
>
>     globals()['bug%s' % i] = _proto
>
>This does almost exactly what you want, and for most
>intents and purposes is the same thing.  (The encoded
>name of the class is different, but that shouldn't
>be relevant to you in most cases.)
>
If it is, type is handy:

 >>> for i in xrange(1,10):
 ...     name = 'bug%s'%i
 ...     globals()[name]=type(name,(),dict(gender='m', size=0, skill=0))
 ...

Have a look at one
 >>> bug7
 <class '__main__.bug7'>
 >>> bug7.gender, bug7.size, bug7.skill
 ('m', 0, 0)

>The real question has already been asked by others,
>however:  what's the point of auto-generating names for
>things when nothing will be able to refer to them without
>knowing their names in advance anyway?
Well, I guess there could be reasons, but guessing gets old sometimes ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From gjego at free.fr  Sat Oct  9 06:31:34 2004
From: gjego at free.fr (Georges JEGO)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 12:31:34 +0200
Subject: _winreg problem
In-Reply-To: <ck4k5o$4f3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <ck4bhc$ll3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<BJedne4cdK3gW_jcRVn-gA@comcast.com>
	<ck4k5o$4f3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <4167be07$0$294$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> 
> Thanks, besides using OpenKey() correctly, I found that the values did 
> indeed have to be ints...
> 

Because you fixed the type to REG_DWORD in the SetValueEx call...

print _winreg.SetValueEx.__doc__
will show you the other possible types, you probably want REG_SZ.

-- Georges



From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Mon Oct 25 12:29:28 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:29:28 +0200
Subject: how do i change from string to list
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>
	<417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<417c1cda$0$152$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<c76ff6fc.0410241958.7222d1f0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417d29ef$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>

agreed
But I wasn't aware of the list() function and than my version wasn't so bad

but I agree about the more considerations though

Ivo

"John Machin" <sjmachin at lexicon.net> wrote in message
news:c76ff6fc.0410241958.7222d1f0 at posting.google.com...
> "Ivo Woltring" <TheDolphin at ivonet.nl> wrote in message
news:<417c1cda$0$152$3a628fcd at reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>...
> > I agree completely!
> > Didn't know the list() though.
> > But all work so my answer is just as valid as yours
> >
> > ;-))
> > Ivo
>
> This will probably work, too -- is it "valid"?
>
> s = 'spot'
> slen = len(s)
> alist = [''] * slen
> for i in range(slen):
>     alist[i] = s[i]
>
> You can write code in Perl or Intercal [bonus points if you can tell
> the difference] and it's "valid" in the sense that it works, but there
> are many more considerations than that.




From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 20 12:12:28 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 09:12:28 -0700
Subject: Returning from socket.accept and threading issues.
References: <mailman.5189.1098211519.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9418be08.0410200812.61e75895@posting.google.com>

"Christopher J. Bottaro" <cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.5189.1098211519.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Hello,
> I'm trying to write a fairly simple network program.  The main thread spawns
> a thread which creates a listener socket and then calls socket.accept on
> it.  socket.accept blocks indefinantly.  My problem is that when the main
> thread determines that it is time to quit, how do I get the spawned thread
> to exit?  Preferably I'd like the spawned thread to return from
> socket.accept when the main thread tells it to and then check a shared
> varible to determine if it should die or call socket.accept again.
> 
> Any advice on this stuff would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> My temporary solution is to poll (via select.select) the listening socket
> for input before socket.accept is called.  I don't like this method because
> it eats up CPU time.
> 
> Thanks for the help.


Look here:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&frame=right&th=da33abbc3942a1a4&seekm=9418be08.0410131832.58bcb223%40posting.google.com#link4


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Oct 14 09:28:46 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:28:46 +0200
Subject: Can't connect to MS Exchange (SMTP) from WinXP
In-Reply-To: <17fbnq4jywkc7$.1bru6i6pu6z9k$.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <4f0a9fdb.0410030135.661a708c@posting.google.com>
	<17fbnq4jywkc7$.1bru6i6pu6z9k$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <20041014132845.GN2544@zoran.com>

Hello jack,

[Miki]
> > I can't connect to our Excahnge server using smtplib from a WinXP box.
> > Connection to the same server from a Linux box works.
[Jack]
> is your antivirus software blocking the SMTP port (25)? McAfee 8.0i does so
> by default...
Yap. Our McAfee was just upgraded to 8.0i.

Thanks.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at gmail.com>
http://tebeka.spymac.net
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys


From gschweitzerwithoutthis at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 29 10:59:20 2004
From: gschweitzerwithoutthis at hotmail.com (Pepo)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:59:20 -0400
Subject: test
Message-ID: <USsgd.223$Tq1.99@bignews1.bellsouth.net>

test





From dd55 at cornell.edu  Thu Oct 14 11:02:32 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:02:32 -0400
Subject: question on list comprehensions
References: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.4949.1097766029.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckm4et$cql$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Darren Dale wrote:
> 
>> I need to replace the following loop with a list comprehension:
>>
>> res=[0]
>> for i in arange(10000):
>>     res[0]=res[0]+i
> 
> why?
> 
> </F>

I explained why in the original post...


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 15 03:04:53 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:04:53 +0200
Subject: question on list comprehensions
References: <mailman.4956.1097769683.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glo69s.cypoa71o6t7hpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Frohnhofer, James <james.frohnhofer at csfb.com> wrote:
   ...
>       map(lambda tup: reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,tup),

Changing this line to
        map(sum,
will be WAY faster.  That 'reduce' is a real performance drag.


Alex


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct 30 22:34:42 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 02:34:42 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <698f09f8.0410292351.567514b8@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>
	<F_9gd.4865$kM.2575@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<698f09f8.0410292351.567514b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6bYgd.13459$KJ6.8185@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Jeremy Fincher wrote:
> How long with this take to run?
> 
> 
>>>>a = RangedNumber(2**31, 0, 2**32)
>>>>a ** a

It wouldn't -- I didn't implement __pow__. ;)

> I think our inability to write a RangedNumber that piggybacks on
> Python's integers should be obvious.

It sounds like you don't like that the simple
__pow__ implementation will raise a MemoryError after
a long time when you would rather have it raise a
bounds violation error early.

If you want that, you could have an implementation that
uses a few logs to check for that possibility.

Though I'm not sure how to do the bounds checking for
the 3 arg form.  Given a as above, I know that

   pow(a, a, 2**50)

but without doing the computation my bounds checker
can't (or at least shouldn't) be that clever.  Should
it require that the 3rd arg always be in the allowed
range?

What about

a = RangedNumber(100, 100, 400)
pow(a, 25424134, 321)

?  It turns out the result is 321 which is in the right
range, but I can't know that without basically doing
the calculation.


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From hs at byteconcepts.de  Sun Oct 17 10:39:06 2004
From: hs at byteconcepts.de (Henri Schomaecker)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:39:06 +0200
Subject: get binary data from COM object
Message-ID: <cku064$nr4$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi folks,

I'm trying to get back jpg binary-data from a COM object, passed as
SafeArray of bytes by the object and print it right to the user agent.

example:
8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------

imgObj = win32com.client.Dispatch("mine.imgsender")
myImgData = imgObj.getImgData()
# But myImgData should get it in binary format,
# what it isn't like that.

8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------

Unfortunately I'm not familiar enought with python, so I ask you for help.
Note: At the moment, there's no method provided by the COM object which
gives back the size of the image.

I already tried it with...
myImgData = array('B', imgObj.getImgData())
... but the compiler told me, I couldn't do this.

Every help is greatly appreciated, many thanks in advance,
    yours Henri

-- 
| Henri Schom?cker - BYTECONCEPTS, VIRTUAL HOMES
| ? ? Datendesign f?r Internet und Intranet
| ? ? ? ? http://www.byteconcepts.de
| ? ? ? ? http://www.virtual-homes.de


From matt.walsh at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 16:27:40 2004
From: matt.walsh at gmail.com (Matthew Walsh)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 13:27:40 -0700
Subject: Parsing info into a 2d list
Message-ID: <58fb5b0e.0410201227.6fa6fc88@posting.google.com>

Whats wrong with the following code?
using pythonWin I get the following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
line 310, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My
Documents\file_parser.py", line 16, in ?
    rownum = range(eval(nrows))
TypeError: object doesn't support item assignment

>>CODE
f = open('f:\input.dat')
feed= f.read()
lines = feed.split('\n')
ncols = lines[0].split()[1]
nrows = lines[1].split()[1]
xllcorner = lines[2].split()[1]
yllcorner = lines[3].split()[1]
cellsize = lines[4].split()[1]
NoData = lines[5].split()[1]

colnum = range(eval(ncols))
rownum = range(eval(nrows))

for r in rownum:
    for c in colnum:
        slope[r][c]= eval(lines[6+r].split()[c])
        
f.close()
>>END OF CODE


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sat Oct 16 13:32:43 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:32:43 +0100
Subject: get the name of lambda
In-Reply-To: <ckr8vl$1g9t$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
References: <ckr59p$1epo$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
	<ckr72j$g2g$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<ckr8vl$1g9t$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <ckrlvu$ffs$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

George Yoshida wrote:

> I implemented a function in several ways(using recursion,
> lambda, etc) and benchmarked them. In that script, I needed
> to display function names, along with ellapsed time.

To be honest, I think munging the func_name attribute is a silly way to 
get what you want :)

> I was doing something like:
> 
> for func in (func1, func2, func3):
>     print func.func_name
>     print measure_ellapsed_time(func)

How about:

funcs = dict(func1=func1, func2=func2, func3=lambda: None)
for name, func in funcs.iteritems():
     print name
     print measure_elapsed_time(func)
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 03:24:42 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:24:42 +0200
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <4166F64A.5080504@kzoo.edu>
	<mailman.4606.1097268249.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glgs0r.26jrps1tal79wN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Phil Frost <indigo at bitglue.com> wrote:

> ^ is the bitwise xor operator. Performing bitwise operations on strings
> doesn't make much sense, so it's invalid. You can define a logical xor
> function like so:
> 
> xor = lambda p, q: (p and not q) or (not p and q)
> 
> or equivalently:
> 
> xor = lambda p, q: bool(p) != bool(q)

or, equivalently and avoiding the gratuitous lambda,

def xor(p, q): return bool(p) != bool(q)


Alex


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 26 01:03:13 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:03:13 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1098766993.22370.216.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 21:05 -0700, kartik wrote:
> > The question is how small is small? Less than 2**7? Less than 2**15? 
> > Less than 2**31? Less than 2**63? And what's the significance of powers 
> > of two? And what happens if you move from a 32 bit machine to a 64 bit 
> > one? (or a 1024 bit one in a hundred years time?)
> 
> less than 2**31 most of the time & hardly ever greater than 2**63 - no
> matter if my machine is 32-bit, 64-bit or 1024-bit. the required range
> depends on the data   u want 2 store in the variable & not on the
> hardware.

I'm going to rewrite that last line in English so that perhaps you'll
catch on to what you are saying:

'''
the required range depends on the data you want to store in the variable
and not on the hardware.
'''

The pivotal word here is "you".  The data *you* want to store.  One more
time YOU.  I'm not correcting your mangling of English at this point,
rather I'm pointing out that it's *you*, not Python, that knows what
sort of data *you* want to store.  If *you* want to limit your integers
to some arbitrary amount then *you* are going to have to write code to
do that.  What *you* need for *your* application isn't necessarily what
anyone else needs for theirs.

If you want such a domain-specific language then you should take a look
at http://kartik.sourceforge.net as I think that's the only language
that's going to suit you.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 05:07:23 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:07:23 -0300
Subject: Creating new classes on the fly
In-Reply-To: <1gla4id.eu73uh1clm50oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4376.1097009632.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gla4id.eu73uh1clm50oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904100702075b1b5238@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:42:02 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I need to create new classes on the fly with different default
> > parameters, stored as class attributes. Of course, there's a reason
> > behind it: I need new classes, because I need to be able to build
> > multiple instances of them later. And I need new defaults, because the
> > values can't be provided at instantiation time (because of scoping &
> > mutability issues).
> > 
> > I've found two different ways to do it in the documentation:
> >
> > new.classobj(name, baseclasses, dict)
> 
> This normally makes a 'classic class', unless some baseclasses are
> non-classic (e.g., object or other built-ins); note that __metaclass__
> in dict is ignored.
> 
> >
> > and:
> >
> > type(name, bases, dict)
> 
> This makes a new-style class (again,  __metaclass__ in dict is ignored).
> 
> >
> > I assume that both end up calling the same code, but I really don't
> > know which one am I supposed to call, in terms of being the most
> > 'pythonic' way. Are both the same? Is one of them preferred over the
> > other?
> 
> They're not quite the same, if the bases tuple is empty or only has
> classic classes.  I would normally use the second form because new-style
> classes are generally preferred.

Question: why is it not pointed out clearly in the documentation? It
can be written better than this, but this is an example of what I
mean:

"""
classobj(name, baseclasses, dict)
This function returns a new "old-style" class object, with name name,
derived from baseclasses (which should be a tuple of classes) and with
namespace dict.

New-style classes are built by the type builtin, or by any other type.
This is the preferred form since Python 2.(x), and use of classobj
should be avoided for new code.
"""

btw -- the documentation is lacking at *many* points when it comes to
new style classes, metaclasses, descriptors, and the related
protocols. I couldn't find a clear description of the class creation
process there -- although there are lots of info in the Wiki... but
there *should* be something on the docs, don't you think?
-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu  Thu Oct 14 17:11:23 2004
From: cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu (Christopher J. Bottaro)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:11:23 -0500
Subject: from dict to member vars...?
References: <ckmel7$oar$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ckmprh$ssb$1@sea.gmane.org>

Christopher J. Bottaro wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Lets say I have a class instance with the following member vars:  var1, x,
> size.  Now lets say I have dict with the following keys:  var1, x, size.
> Is there an easy way to *automatically* assign all the values in the dict
> to corresponding (member) vars of the same name as the dict keys?
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 

for k, v in my_dict.iteritems():
        setattr(self, k, v)



From richie at entrian.com  Wed Oct  6 04:29:07 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 09:29:07 +0100
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <nq97m05s2tqc15uj7q5b53g1jqaghk3d88@4ax.com>


[Richard]
> I could care less honestly.

[Grant]
> I've always been curious about that phrase.  It seems to imply
> that you _do_ care, since it would be possible for you to care
> less than you do.  Shouldn't the expression be "I couldn't care
> less"?

In the UK we say "I couldn't care less".

One theory is that in the US it has become the sarcastic opposite of
itself, as in "tell me about it" or "I should be so lucky".

Another theory is that it's been mangled through overuse - the
individual syllables ceased to matter a long time ago, and the "n't" was
lost because of sloppy speech.

As revealed by PSU Research Paper "UU788", the *real* reason is a side
effect of the nanovirus encroaching into non-whitespace, as first
proposed by "UU355" and then earlier proven (twice, as it turned out) by
"UU6 9".  The only defence is t*^$Z:%Z* NO CARRIER



From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct  4 23:12:20 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:12:20 -0400
Subject: Python Macros
Message-ID: <41621114.30205@fastmail.fm>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: Python Macros
Date: 	Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:08:03 -0400
From: 	Arich Chanachai <macrocosm at fastmail.fm>
To: 	Paul Foley <mycroft at actrix.co.nz>
References: 	<mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list at python.org> 
<m2r7odrk9o.fsf at mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>



Paul Foley wrote:

>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:26:19 -0400, Arich Chanachai wrote:
>
>  
>
>>How hard/easy is it to extend the Python syntax?  Perhaps there are 
>>macro facilities for this?
>>    
>>
>
>No.
>
>  
>
>>                            I'd like to add messages and message 
>>passing, for example.
>>    
>>
>
>What on Earth can you mean by this?  Python already has it, and always
>has.  What do you think "foo.bar()" is other than "pass message `bar'
>to object `foo'"?
>
>  
>
What if foo doesn't know about bar(), can I tell foo that perhaps it 
should send the bar() message to...say....boo?



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct 12 23:44:19 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:44:19 -0400
Subject: School Project, Need Help Fast!
In-Reply-To: <l60bd.7989$vZ5.5358@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <mailman.4778.1097617767.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<l60bd.7989$vZ5.5358@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <416CA493.7060003@cloudthunder.com>

Patrick Ellis wrote:

>Robert Brewer <fumanchu at amor.org> typed:
>  
>
>>Gavin Bauer wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>The "press enter to exit" thing is because my DOS
>>>shuts off the second it finishes computing, which
>>>leaves me without seeing the final information.
>>>I would love it if someone knew how I could change
>>>my Dos preference...
>>>      
>>>
>>There's a switch for that which I can't recall at the moment.
>>Workaround: Start->Run->cmd, then navigate to your script and type
>>"python myscript.py".
>>    
>>
>
>Goto "Folder Options" and "File Types" and select .py files.
>
>Add a new action called "open in persistent window" with the following
>command:
>cmd.exe /x /k C:\Python23\python.exe "%1" %*
>
>You can make that the default action if you want. I didn't, prefering to
>make editing the file my default action.
>
>
>  
>
Oh, that is what he meant.  I guess I am a little slow on the uptake.  
Where'd the bloke go?  He made it sound so urgent. 


From jolsen at despammed.com  Mon Oct  4 03:12:30 2004
From: jolsen at despammed.com (Jesper Olsen)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 00:12:30 -0700
Subject: elementtree -
References: <e9ece60a.0410030229.28dda312@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4213.1096815107.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e9ece60a.0410032312.1406871@posting.google.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4213.1096815107.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Jesper Olsen wrote:
> 
> > I'd like to output the element "<span>&nbsp;</span>"
> > and I try this
> >
> > w=XMLWriter(f)
> > w.element("span", "&nbsp;", id="txt")
> 
> use chr(160).
> 
> ("&nbsp;" isn't a standard XML entity, and the simple writer doesn't support
> custom entities.)
> 
> </F>


Thanks, that worked.

/Jesper


From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 25 15:27:32 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:27:32 -0300
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca> <m31xfmwqwb.fsf@g2ctech.com>
Message-ID: <m3sm82vbrv.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Jorge Godoy <godoy at ieee.org> writes:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>
>> Whatever gave you the idea you are obligated to provide support?!
>
> One has such an obligation here in .br.  Our law demands that and a
> license can't override what is stated in the law, so... 

Just to make it clear: I was referring to obligations to software
distributed/sold here...

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From jedp at ilm.com  Mon Oct 18 17:56:59 2004
From: jedp at ilm.com (Jed Parsons)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 14:56:59 -0700
Subject: Facing the world with SimpleHTTPServer
Message-ID: <1098136619.832912.243090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hola -

I'm curious about using SimpleHTTPServer as the web server on my home
machine.  It would pretty much just be hit by me, search robots, and
automated attacks :)

So, before I ditch apache for the fun, all-python setup, are there any
security concerns about using SimpleHTTPServer?
Thanks for any advice/info,

Jed



From DesertLinux at netscape.net  Fri Oct  8 18:33:18 2004
From: DesertLinux at netscape.net (Byron)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 22:33:18 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <4167128b$0$538$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<%5E9d.7075$UP1.6600@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4167128b$0$538$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <OAE9d.9710$M05.4441@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> No, he explained exactly what he was trying to do, and it had
> nothing to do with encryption.  He wants to know if exactly one
> (1) of the strings is the empty string.


Hi Grant,

Opps, that's what happens when one skims through a post at light 
speed...  lol  :-)

Byron
---


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Oct 11 09:58:44 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:58:44 +0200
Subject: Python to Python communication
References: <Xns957F95400C53Ecpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.11.13.58.44.349079@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:40:07 +0000 schrieb Harald Massa:

> Hello,
> 
> I have a group of Python programms which I want to teach to "talk to each 
> other".
> 
> All run on Windows, on the same computer or in the same intranet. 
> Security of communication is not an issue (encryption on lower level 
> protocols / intra computer communication). Partially these programs are 
> using wxPython.

Hi,

Before choosing a framework (pyro, socket or other) you should know
how you want to communicate. 

The easiest is "client-server". There is one server and several
clients connect to it. 

Peer to peer: There is no central server. All can talk to each other.
The problem is: How to find the other? If there are on one computer
this is easy: Just write files to a directory all processes know.
But if you want to talk to other computers, you need to know their
IP addresses.

For the communication UDP, TCP or HTTP can be used. I would not
use HTTP (XMLRPC or SOAP) if you don't need to. UDP is stateless,
and can be used for broadcasts.

I would use pyro or the socket module.

HTH,
 Thomas



From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 15 14:50:43 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 21:50:43 +0300
Subject: Pychecker warns about  Exception example from Python tutorial
References: <41700f96$0$7527$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
Message-ID: <du71xfz3jek.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Pekka" == Pekka Niiranen <pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com> writes:

    Pekka> Hi there,
    Pekka> why does pychecker v0.8.14 gives this warning:

    Pekka> koe2.py:2: Base class (exceptions.Exception) __init__() not called




    Pekka> What does this warning mean and how can I disable it?

You had __init__, and you didn't call the init of the superclass. This
might leave the superclass in uninitialized stage. Your own exception
class is over-engineered, this works the way you want:

--------------------------
In [11]: class MyEx(Exception): pass
   ....:

In [12]: raise MyEx("blah")
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
MyEx                                      Traceback (most recent call last)

/home/ville/<console>

MyEx: blah
---------------------------------

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Sat Oct  2 19:16:14 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 23:16:14 GMT
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrncludlu.n81.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 14:38:34 -0700, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:
> Sam Holden <sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
>>
>>Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This particular pickle is a disagreement of number: since there is only 
>>> one village, the correct slogan should be "... is missing its idiot". If 
>>> you thought it was "... it's idiot" then take two demerits and refrain 
>>> from posting on c.l.py for 48 hours.
>>
>>Their isn't necessarily plural so that isn't a problem. Since arguing
>>grammar isn't something I can do successfully, I'll instead resort
>>to an appeal to authority and say that one of the authors of 
>>"The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language" agrees with me:
>
>
> Two points.  First, that web page just QUOTES from "The Cambridge Grammar
> of the English Language."  The page itself is just a blog, and everyone
> knows that "if you see it on a blog, it must be true."  ;/

Please check the Author of post on the blog and the authors of the book.
You'll see they are the same. Here's the author's web site if you find that
more authoratative:

	http://people.ucsc.edu/~pullum/

If "the web" isn't a good enough source then you can call the
University and check that way I guess.

Maybe I should have provided some evidence, but I didn't think it was a
hard author confirm (the book only has two and they aren't nobodies in 
their field).


>
> Second, "their" is allowed as a singular pronoun only in those cases where
> a gender-specific pronoun is called for, but the gender is unclear or would
> be sexist.  Instead of "Everyone brought his Python manual," we are now
> allowed to say "Everyone brought their Python manual."
>
> However, in the example that started this, "village" has no gender.  Thus,
> I don't see that "their" is an acceptable alternative to "its" in this
> case.

>From the blog you dismissed so lightly which is written by someone who must
qualify as an "expert in the field":

"Principal helps their employees" - Principal is a company.

"Treasure Island's having their show right now." - Treasure Island is a
hotel.

"picked by Latina Style as one of their list of ..." - Latina Style is
a magazine.

Why is a village fundamentally different from a company, hotel, or magazine?

-- 
Sam Holden


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 20:16:31 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:16:31 -0600
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
References: <4e4a11f8.0409232355.6ba0468d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.3834.1096015522.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
	<Jdc7d.280819$4o.95007@fed1read01>
	<ijbrl0tfkraor6fe316aettvc0sqas3q8a@4ax.com>
	<du7y8ipv21m.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<cjslqp$h03$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<2zl8d.2842$M05.1121@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cjsp50$il5$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> Fernando Perez wrote:
>> Sorry to pitch in late, and forgive me if this has already been discussed

> 
> It was discussed.  Here's Alex's comments
> 
> ] def f(x):
> ]     if x in f.cache: ...
> ] f.cache = []
> ]
> ] which among other things suffers from f.cache having to be
> ] used in spots that come lexically before it's defined; or
> ] a decorator equivalent:

Ah, thanks for the pointer.  The thread seemed long and heated, so I skimmed it
lightly for fear of getting burned ;)

Somehow I've just gotten used enough to this that the
'use-before-lexical-definition' ugliness just doesn't bother me.  But it's
probably a sign that I've grown into a long-term relationship with python:
I've learned to gloss over some of its defects as a price for all the good
things it gives me, and at this point I just ignore them without having to
work at it.  I guess I'm officially married to the language :)

Best,

f


From sw at wordtech-software.com  Tue Oct 19 23:09:50 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:09:50 -0400
Subject: Integrate Tile into Tkinter
Message-ID: <3Gkdd.2134$Ag.1192@fe37.usenetserver.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Are there any plans to integrate the Tile extension from Tk into
Tkinter? This theming extension allows native look and feel under
Windows XP and OS X, in particular, and adds a lot of theming
flexibility to Tk apps. In fact, it would bring Tkinter pretty much in
line with wxPython in terms of a native "look" on various platforms,
though wx still has a larger set of core widgets. I've seen only a
little discusison about Tile in Python circles, but it's one of the most
important advances going on with Tcl/Tk these days. Anyway, I'm just
curious, as I have some experience with Tcl/Tk and am learning Python.

- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBddb9JmdQs+6YVcoRAgdKAJ4v99f7qGXHEaoFTS249cvFNIXArwCdFki+
f2Io7rRlF6IHbPsVTHAQAzY=
=s+ao
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sat Oct  9 23:16:04 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:16:04 -0400
Subject: help me
In-Reply-To: <hZidnVmZ96NBOfXcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>	<3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>	<mailman.4646.1097373842.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<hZidnVmZ96NBOfXcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <4168A974.7010405@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
> Like regular expressions, in the hands of a beginner exec
> and eval() lead to code that is one or more of dangerous,
> unreadable, unmaintainable, awkward, or just plain sloppy.
>
> -Peter

He's got to learn somehow! LOL


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Oct 14 11:21:26 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:21:26 -0500
Subject: Simple Python web proxy stalls for some web sites
In-Reply-To: <41649d0e@post.usenet.com>
References: <41649d0e@post.usenet.com>
Message-ID: <16750.39286.301336.181114@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Carl> I have written a simple web proxy using the Python standard
    Carl> library BaseHTTPRequestHandler.??

Have you tried tinyproxy.py?

    http://www.furl.net/members/xieyb

Skip


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Tue Oct  5 17:57:49 2004
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:57:49 -0300
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <864d3709041003152471cf26fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<864d3709041003152471cf26fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041005215749.GA5891@burma.localdomain>

Hello Carlos,

> I'm not a metaclass expert, but I think I can share a few useful tips
> with you. I've been studying metaclasses lately, and I've fallen on
> some traps that seem to be common. I apologize if my tone sound
> pretentious at times -- my intention is probably better than my words.

Your description is really interesting and informative,
as usual. :-)

[...]
> >>> class MyClass:
> ... 	for i in range(10):
> ... 		def newmethod(self,i=i):
> ... 			print "I'm method #%d" % i
> ... 		newname = "method%d" % i
> ... 		locals()[newname] = newmethod
> ... 
> >>> mc = MyClass()
> >>> mc.method0()
> I'm method #0
> >>> mc.method1()
> I'm method #1
> 
> Although it doesn't involve metaclasses at all, it shows how dynamic
> the class creation process is, and how much control one can have with
> it. There are two worthy comments to make:
> 
> 1) the locals() dict is the key at this step of class creation. The
> local dict is one of the parameters passed to the metaclass. If you
> fill the locals() with values -- either manually, as in the example
> above, or by assigning values to local vars -- all the values will be
> part of the class definition.

As an interesting side effect, the class above will have
'newname', 'newmethod', and 'i' attributes, besides 'method0-9'.

> 2) the signature of "def newmethod(self,i=i)" shows another
> interesting side effect. The value if <i> (defined in the for loop) is
> passed as a keyword paramenter, and is evaluated whenever the 'def'
> statement is found. Because it changes, the def is re-run at every
> loop. In the lack of this hack, the def would run only at the first
> time, and all methods would in fact be the same.

That's not true. The def statement is rerun every loop, no matter
what parameters are used. One can check that by issuing:

print MyClass.method0.im_func
print MyClass.method1.im_func

Of course, in your example, not using the 'i=i' trick would be a
problem, since the 'i' variable is lost, and inside the method a
global is looked for, creating an error.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 08:39:14 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:39:14 -0400
Subject: Outputting to specific sound channels?
In-Reply-To: <Uz67d.2746$TY2.563@lakeread04>
References: <WDY6d.2397168$6p.406211@news.easynews.com>
	<Uz67d.2746$TY2.563@lakeread04>
Message-ID: <INmdncoAppBu0sDcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Davin Boling wrote:
> 
>> I'm a rather new programmer - been messing around with Python for 
>> about half a year or so. I play a few online games and run a Teamspeak 
>> server. Recently I've found myself wanting to make a "sound board" 
>> program that lets me play prerecorded sounds over the microphone 
>> channel. :D
>>
>> What is the best way to go about doing this? I don't believe there's 
>> anything in the standard library that handles this, so I'd *probably* 
>> want to use SDL or something similar. Does anyone know of a solution 
>> that not only allows you to play sounds from Python, but also output 
>> those sounds to a channel other than Wave? (such as Microphone)
>>
> It seems almost churlish to ask if you realise that a microphone is an 
> input device.

Come on, Steve, haven't you ever seen a speaker built to act
bidirectionally, so it can be used both as an output or an input?
They're very handy in intercom systems and are quite fun to build
from scratch, for a beginner like I am. :-)

-Peter


From jorgencederberg at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 22 04:33:52 2004
From: jorgencederberg at hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Cederberg?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:33:52 +0200
Subject: How to start a new thread ?
In-Reply-To: <81a41dd.0410220024.1e595233@posting.google.com>
References: <81a41dd.0410202302.2e1d7e71@posting.google.com>
	<81a41dd.0410220024.1e595233@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <RB3ed.1721$Hf.1410@news.get2net.dk>

Lad wrote:
> export at hope.cz (Lad) wrote in message news:<81a41dd.0410202302.2e1d7e71 at posting.google.com>...
> 
>>From running script I would like to start a new script in a new
>>window.How can I do that from Python?
>>Thanks for help
>>LAD
> 
> 
> Nobody knows???
> Lad

It is very unclear what you want to do? If you are on a Windows PC you could do this:

import os
os.system('start thescript.py')

Regards
Jorgen


From nospam  Wed Oct  6 05:43:07 2004
From: nospam (Sam G.)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:43:07 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <4162b870$0$59523$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<4162b870$0$59523$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <ck0emf$1ar$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>

OK, a mistake from me, I read more on GIL to understand well. Thanks to 
correct me.

But if only one thread per interpreter could run at a time, in multicore 
two (or more) thread can't run at the same time. In performance the 
result is almost the same : if the server has nothing else than running 
python (not real i know, just to be simple), only one core work...

Not very good for Zope, as multicore are for the near future...

Sam.


Grant Edwards wrote:
[...]
> AFAIK, the threads aren't all locked to a single CPU.  However,
> there is a global interpreter lock (a mutex), which somewhat
> prevents simultaneous execution of threads when they _are_ on
> different CPUs.
[...]


From kraus at hagen-partner.de  Wed Oct 13 11:09:54 2004
From: kraus at hagen-partner.de (Wolfram Kraus)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:09:54 +0200
Subject: convert string to list
In-Reply-To: <ckjg90$pc4$1@ork-un.noris.net>
References: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de> <ckjg90$pc4$1@ork-un.noris.net>
Message-ID: <ckjgeo$pc4$2@ork-un.noris.net>

Wolfram Kraus wrote:
> Jochen Hub wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am a real beginner in Python and I was wondering if there is a way 
>> to convert a string (which contains a list) to a "real" list.
>>
>> I need this since I would like to give a list as an argument to my 
>> Python script from the bash:
>>
>> #!/usr/bin/python
>> import sys
>> argument1 = sys.argv[1]
>> thelist = ???(argument1)
>>
>> and then call the script from the bash like this
>>
>> thescript.py ["A","B","C"]
>>
>> Thanks you,
>> Jochen
> 
> If you are sure that the list always looks that way:
> 
>  >>> l = '["A","B","C"] '
>  >>> l[1:-2].replace('"','').split(',')
> ['A', 'B', 'C']
> 
> 
> HTH,
> Wolfram
Damn, I knew there must be something wrong with the -2 (too much work 
today??):
 >>> l = '["A","B","C"]'
 >>> l[1:-1].replace('"','').split(',')
['A', 'B', 'C']

Or try the other solution with multiple arguments (better way IMHO)

Wolfram


From andreas at kostyrka.org  Wed Oct  6 08:13:36 2004
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:13:36 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <2sgi8iF1l9okoU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2sgi8iF1l9okoU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20041006121336.GA15318@kostyrka.org>

On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 11:32:53PM +0200, Daniel Dittmar wrote:
> Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
> >So, IMHO, there are basically the following design decisions:
> >GIL: large granularity
> >MSL: (many small locks) would slow down the overall execution of Python
> >     programs.
> >MSLu: (many small locks, unsafe) inacceptable because it would change
> >      Python experience ;)
> 
> You forgot GarbageCollection instead of reference counting.
Well, "GarbageCollection" isn't really an option for a portable ANSI C
program, isn't it?

Andreas

> 
> Daniel
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 30 02:55:19 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 02:55:19 -0400
Subject: PIL JPEG Windows Problem
In-Reply-To: <glwgd.331214$3l3.277135@attbi_s03>
References: <6U5gd.19857$SW3.18915@fed1read01>
	<glwgd.331214$3l3.277135@attbi_s03>
Message-ID: <41833AD7.50502@holdenweb.com>

Ann wrote:

> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:6U5gd.19857$SW3.18915 at fed1read01...
> 
>>If nobody has a quick answer I'll go to the PIL list, but I'm having
>>problems with PIL JPEG support on Windows, and figured someone on c.l.py
>>might have solved this problem.
>>
>>I built the Cygwin PIL from source, and that works a treat.
>>Unfortunately the Windows version (1.1.4 and 1.1.5b1) loaded using
>>binary installers is giving
> 
<unsnip :-)>

   File "/c/steve/website/hpgraphics.py", line 23, in ?
   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\ImageFont.py", line 115, in ?
     class FreeTypeFont:
   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\ImageFont.py", line 132, in 
FreeTypeFont
     def getmask(self, text, mode="", fill=Image.core.fill):
   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py", line 45, in 
__getattr__
     raise ImportError("The _imaging C module is not installed")
ImportError: The _imaging C module is not installed

> 
> I am a newbie, but I installed python about 2 months ago, from binaries
> and added PIL maybe a month ago with no problems on Win XP Pro. I refuse
> to compile anything.
> The python log file has no 'jpg' or 'jpeg' files, but the
> PIL log file has these two:
> 200 File Copy: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\JpegImagePlugin.py
> 200 File Copy: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\JpegImagePlugin.pyc
> I do not have libjpeg.dll
> HTH
> 
> 
>>When I import the _imaging module directly a dialog box informs me that
>>libjpeg.dll can't be found, and I have confirmed that it isn't anywhere
>>on the disk  - I have a libjpeg.dll.a as part of cygwin, but I can't
>>persuade myself this can be munged into suitable form. It would be nice
>>if I were wrong ...
>>
>>The PIL docs do say something about having to add JPEG support, but
>>unfortunately I can't find any information about adding *Windows* JPEG
>>support.
>>

Thanks for the input, but it doesn't, unfortunately, help - I have those 
files too. I presume you are using PIL 1.1.4?

I thought it might be a 1.1.5b1-specific thing, but sadly a de-install 
followed by a re-install of 1.1.4 gives me the same error - a dialog box 
appears telling me that libjpeg.dll can't be found in any of an umber of 
directories (not surprising, since there is no such file on my disk).

I thought I'd fixed the problem by copying jpeg62.dll from GTK 2.0 and 
renaming it as libjpeg.dll, but unfortunately Windows then started 
complaining about the absence of libz.dll (and a copy of libz.pyd 
definitely won;t do the trick).

So I'll copy this to the PIL support list and see what the gurus have to 
say. I'm wondering if there could possibly be any interaction between 
the Cygwin and Windows versions, since both are now loaded on the same 
machine. Bit stumped here ... I don't remember PIL being so 
temperamental before, and it's working beautifully under Cygwin.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 03:27:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:27:44 +0200
Subject: UNIX-style sort in Python?
References: <I-6dnfLpv8Gzl-7cRVn-sw@comcast.com>
	<akEcd.8228$gy1.757@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1gluhuw.1yq6gn51631vg6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Kotlin Sam wrote:
> >   % sort -t, +2 +5 imputfilename <return>
> 
> >   So, is there a module or function already available that does this?
> 
> In newer Pythons (CVS and beta-1 for 2.4) you can do
> 
> def get_fields(line):
>    fields = line.split("\t")
>    return fields[1], fields[4]
> 
> sorted_lines = sorted(open("imputfilename"), key=get_fields)

Quite right -- and, of course, if Katlin needs get_fields to depend on
the sys.argv parameters that's easy to arrange.


> For older Pythons you'll need to do the "decorate-sort-undecorate"
> ("DSU") yourself, like this
> 
> lines = [get_fields(line), line for line in open("imputfilename")]

Wrong syntax -- needs to be:

lines = [(get_fields(line), line) for line in open("imputfilename")]

> lines.sort()
> sorted_lines = [x[1] for x in lines]
> 
> There is a slight difference between these two.  If fields[1]
> and fields[4] are the same between two lines in the comparison
> then the first of these sorts by position of each line (it's
> a "stable sort") while the latter sorts by the content of the
> line.

...and to get exactly the same stable-sort semantics in 2.3, just change
the first one of the three statements to:

lines = [ (get_fields(line), i, line)
          for i, line in enumerate(open("imputfilename")) ]


Alex


From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Oct 22 04:05:41 2004
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:05:41 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python and generic programming
In-Reply-To: <20041021231712.0AD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0410220909400.3665@suzi.com.onego.ru>
	<20041021231712.0AD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410221137030.3665@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Josiah Carlson wrote:

>
> Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:
>
> > Most Python programs are already kinda generic, yes. But generic
> > programming adds multi-sorted types control and constraints to ensure type
> > safety...
>
> "kinda generic"?  That is quite the understatement.
>
> As for "type safety", Python has runtime type checking, and as a
> programmer, if you want to have varying dispatch based on type, you are
> free to do so:
>
> foo_dispatch = {(int, int):foo_int_int, #some defined function
>                 ...}
>
> def foo(arg1, arg2):
>     foo_dispatch[(type(arg1), type(arg2))](arg1, arg2)
>
>
> With decorator syntax, the above becomes even easier.
>
>
> Your arguments claiming Python is not generic, and your suggestions that
> Python is not type safe while being generic are unfounded.  One likely
> reason why you don't find many examples of what I show above, is because
> it is usually not necessary; even for production applications.

The essense of my question was not to proof or dis-proof Python's
genericity capabilities! But I'd liked to know from those who know ;-)
can Python be called as supporting GP or not, and if not, what is missing.

C++ doesn't support GP in full, but it seems, its heading to that
direction.

As byside, type-safety is a good thing sometimes, especially in moderately
large projects. So probably interfaces or concepts is a good idea for a
PEP. And I think GPs concepts are even better than just interfaces as they
add constraints.

Right now concepts in Python are vaguely expressed like
file objects must have this, this and this.

>  - Josiah

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -



From paul at prescod.net  Mon Oct  4 17:28:26 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:28:26 -0700
Subject: Vancouver Python/Zope: Extreme Graph Programming in Python
Message-ID: <4161C07A.80200@prescod.net>

October's Vancouver Python/Zope meeting will be held on Tuesday, October 
5, 2004.

Mishtu Banerjee will talk and demonstrate aspects of graph 
programming[2] in Python. If that does cover the full hour, we will 
re-deliver some talks that were done at the VPW conference.

  Paul Prescod

[1] http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ExtremeHour
[2] http://www.harmeny.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/XAYAThinkingWithData



From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Tue Oct 12 11:07:21 2004
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:07:21 -0400
Subject: Artifical Life - a job for someone else
References: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87acuskmae.fsf@localhost.localdomain.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>

fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) writes:

> I really miss a decent Cellular Automota program and I was really
> surprised that there weren't lot's of implementations for python.

One of the samples in the PythonCard distribution is an implementation
of the classic Conway "Life".

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')


From listserver at tdw.net  Sat Oct  9 10:13:30 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:13:30 +0100
Subject: (solved)  smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
References: <mailman.4599.1097264257.5135.python-list@python.org><vQE9d.9719$M05.9411@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<20041008172954.EDA4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <002c01c4ae0a$276f7b60$ccbefea9@twilliams>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at uci.edu>
To: "Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com>; <python-list at python.org>
>
> After perusing it (smtplib) for a bit, I notice how often the debug
> notices are peppered through.  Thankfully for the most recent CVS, they
> include 'print >>stderr, <stuff>' rather than the previous 'print
> <stuff>'.  At least it allows doing smtplib.stderr = <anything>, without
> affecting other modules that rely on a reasonable stderr.
>
> Subclassing smtplib (as I originally suggested) doesn't look like a
> viable option.

Once again,  thanks for everyone's comments :-)

The version of smtplib I have (python 2.3.4) has no redirection, just the
print <stuff> commands.   When investigating subclassing I could see how to
add a few funcitons,  but couldn't work out if there was a way to replace
the print/debug stuff without re-creating the functions they existed in.   I
came to the conclusion that it was non-trivial.

For my purposes,  adding a few lines it seemed the best option to give a
quick and 100% match to my requirements.

> > What the OP wants is handy for things like email programs
> > that want to give feedback to the user about what's going on.
> > It captures some steps that can't otherwise be done via
> > subclassing.
>
> Having written something similar, I have noticed that just the return
> codes and exceptions returned by smtplib calls to be sufficient for
> nearly everything.  I don't think I've ever set the debug level on the
> object.

I prototyped using smtplib.SMTP  to do "all" the work and also using
smtplib.SMTP  to create the connection and then control the conversation
myself.   The latter required what now appears to be an almost complete
duplication of the logic within the SMTP class - and writing that was
non-trivial for me at the time.  I decided to go with the simpler and more
reliable first option .   Logging is only recent requirement

> The OP also likes being able to add new debug messages,
> which can't be done through subclassing.  Perhaps through
> AOP?  :)

This was an added benefit that I stumbled on after changing smtplib,
though it does make logging the whole process easier.   I can pass comments
into the debug stream and the logger handles it all at the end of the
connection.

FYI,   this is how the server logs used to look,

[msg id], OutBound Server: 64.233.171.27
[msg id], Sending from:<python-list-bounces+*no-spam*=xxxxx.xxx at python.org>,
to:['<*no-spam*@gmail.com>']
[msg id], Sat, 09 Oct 2004 13:02:26 -0000 success:['<*no-spam*@gmail.com>'],
failed:[] size:4888

and this is how server logs look now  (I added a time-stamp to the debug
function, and removed the message data from debug and put it into  s.data()
so it can be used but only if needed   ),   The only change to the server
program itself  is to call s.debug() after s.quit() and then pass the
returned list to the logger.

[msg id], OutBound Server: 64.233.171.27
[msg id], Sending from:<python-list-bounces+*no-spam*=xxxxx.xxx at python.org>,
to:['<*no-spam*@gmail.com>']
[msg id], (13:02:25)  Connecting to 64.233.171.27 on port 25
[msg id], (13:02:26) 220 mx.gmail.com ESMTP 64si281751rna
[msg id], (13:02:26) ehlo My.Server
[msg id], (13:02:26) 250-mx.gmail.com at your service
[msg id], (13:02:26) 250-SIZE 20971520
[msg id], (13:02:26) 250 8BITMIME
[msg id], (13:02:26) mail
FROM:<python-list-bounces+*no-spam*=xxxxx.xxx at python.org> size=4888
[msg id], (13:02:26) 250 OK
[msg id], (13:02:26) rcpt TO:<*no-spam*@gmail.com>
[msg id], (13:02:26) 250 OK
[msg id], (13:02:26) data
[msg id], (13:02:26) 354 Go ahead
[msg id], (13:02:26) 250 OK 1097326875
[msg id], (13:02:26) quit
[msg id], (13:02:26) 221 mx.gmail.com closing connection
[msg id], Sat, 09 Oct 2004 13:02:26 -0000 success:['<*no-spam*@gmail.com>'],
failed:[] size:4888







From jmeile at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 20 13:33:01 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:33:01 +0200
Subject: Can Python run on the Internet
In-Reply-To: <417666e2$0$23232$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
References: <cl58ko$2l0$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<20041020125028.7D6F.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
	<417666e2$0$23232$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4176a153@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

> Zope may be of some help here. It wont really replace the Python 
> top-level, but...
The only problem with Zope is that its python is restricted, so, you 
won't be able to import some modules. However, there is a solution: look 
for a file called "module_access_examples.py", located on 
<ZopeHome>/lib/python/Products/PythonScripts, and enable the modules 
like is described there (with the allow_module function). Then place the 
file on a product folder (this is also described there), start zope and 
you will have a functional python. Then you can create users on the 
built-in acl_users folder, or if you have an LDAP Server, then you can 
install the LDAPUserFolder. If you have other authentication method, 
then look zope.org for more user folders (there are plenty of them). And 
the best of all is that you can access it with a browser.

Regards,
Josef


From nospam at dontreply.com  Tue Oct 19 08:05:08 2004
From: nospam at dontreply.com (Peter)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:05:08 -0400
Subject: Packaging Python Apps
References: <w7CdnbnX8KsXTencRVn-tw@comcast.com>
	<Uk7dd.2977$lp6.313@okepread01>
Message-ID: <ANWdnWafOqNpn-jcRVn-uA@comcast.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
snip

> For 1), wouldn't
> 
> python setup.py build
> 
> or its variants suffice.
> 
> regards
>   Steve

Well, build would make all the files, but I would like to perform a pseudo
install so that I can see all that WOULD be installed. That way, I could
package it so it could be installed on another PC without having to run a
python script.

Thanks for the reply


From anna at aleax.it  Sun Oct 10 17:09:17 2004
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Martelli Ravenscroft)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:09:17 GMT
Subject: Country specific date format
In-Reply-To: <shrdm0lb4clgb4qe2ao1847s2jvm6pkl0b@4ax.com>
References: <vrrcm0dn0f9pom05a1tefjcr4hpgdcg7o0@4ax.com>
	<ck5tk3$jfn$02$2@news.t-online.com>
	<shrdm0lb4clgb4qe2ao1847s2jvm6pkl0b@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1yhad.18386$b5.906421@news3.tin.it>

Franz Steinh?usler wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:28:04 +0200, "Diez B. Roggisch"
> <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Franz Steinhaeusler wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>with following function, i get a human readable date/time format.
>>>
>>>mtime = time.strftime(self.timeformat ,time.localtime(st.st_mtime))
>>>
>>>However is there a simple solution to get a country specific format:
>>>for example
>>>10/08/2004
>>>
>>>and for German:
>>>08.10.2004
>>>
>>>I looked in locale class, but I didn't get more wise.
>>
>>You didn't look properly:
> 
> 
> Hi Diez,
> 
> you are right :)
> 
> 
>>>>>locale.nl_langinfo(locale.D_FMT)
>>
>>'%m/%d/%y'
>>
>>>>>locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'de_DE')
>>>>>locale.nl_langinfo(locale.D_FMT)
>>
>>'%d.%m.%Y'
> 
> 
> thanks for answering, I have windows XP,
> and it seems, this method doesn't exist:
> 
> import locale
> locale.nl_langinfo(locale.D_FMT)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<input>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'nl_langinfo'
> WinXP, Python 2.3.3
> 
> from the doc:
> nl_langinfo( option) 
> 
> Return some locale-specific information as a string. This function is
> not available on all systems, and the set of possible options might
> also vary across platforms. The possible argument values are numbers,
> for which symbolic constants are available in the locale module. 
> 
> is there any possibility ( please WITHOUT the win32 extensions and
> other extra package except for wxPython ;) )
> to discover the date/time country specific string?
> 
> regards
> 

I would look at dateutil. It has some pretty nifty stuff for handling 
timezones and locale-specific date issues...

HTH
Anna


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 22:11:00 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 23:11:00 -0300
Subject: urllib2 documentation
In-Reply-To: <cjngnm$pi5$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cjngnm$pi5$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <864d3709041002191173731eb3@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:21:47 -0400, Alexander Kervero
<vegeta.z at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to learn urllib2 functionality but it realy lacks
> documentation,the library reference is not enough since this module has a
> very confusing way to work,where can i find examples or tutorials about
> this module,i have googled but no luck?

Well, I agree that some parts of the library are not very well
documented. But urllib2 is *so* simple to use for almost all
situations that it goes almost without the need for documentation. If
all that you need is to read a URL, do it like this:

urlopen("http://somesite.com/somepage")

The result will be a file-liek object, that you can iterate over, or
do a readlines() call, to get the entire resource read. It's really
*that* simple. Check some examples:

http://docs.python.org/lib/urllib2-examples.html

Now, if you want to do something more esoteric, then you have to check
more details in the documentation, and that may be confusing because
urllib2 uses many different classes to support a lot of protocols. But
that's not something that really should worry most users.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Wed Oct 20 12:30:13 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 09:30:13 -0700
Subject: testing for uniquness in a large list
References: <pan.2004.10.20.10.01.17.525999@lolmc.com>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0410200830.471a5ea9@posting.google.com>

Alex Martelli's solution is *very* good, but there is a sampling
problem: putting a simple printing inside his program:

if not (len(results) % 5000):
    print len(results)

You can see that it slows down a lot when the dictionary contains
about 100000-120000 different sequences, because there are many
collisions, and it keeps slowing down. Probably a little speed up of
this code cannot help. A different algoritm can be useful.
I don't know... direct sequences generation doesn't seem possibile.
Maybe a partially direct generation can be okay.

Hugs,
bearophile


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 20:22:47 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:22:47 -0300
Subject: [Python-Dev] ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <41743f3a.161450203@news.oz.net>
References: <20041018104036.0A2B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<2EE12B0A-212F-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com>
	<20041018120633.0A3D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5133.1098129122.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41743f3a.161450203@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <864d37090410181722524ab9e5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:43:16 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> Has anyone discussed using the csv module as the basic file interface for config data?

I believe that CSV files are better suited for regular, table-like
information, not for the type of data that is normally stored on INI
files.
 
> Windows sort of migrated away from actual .INI files to using the registry, and a
> registry entry with the name of a real ini file can divert apparent operations on
> the file to operations on the registry (for windows apps using the windows API).

The registry is a terrible way to store config information IMHO. It's
big, unwieldy, confusing and slow. Even a fast machine has a hard time
findind information inside it, and it's no wonder that it's so easy to
hide virus or spyware entries there. The fact that it is a single file
(two, in fact, but you got the idea), and that it may be used at any
time for system-level operations make simple operations as backups
unneededly dangerous.

My experience with the registry is based on the behavior of Win98;
situation may have improved in newer versions but I sincerely doubt
it. In Win98, if you want to make a reversible change to a small
section of the registry, the easy way is to make a copy of the entire
file; however, to restore this backup may leave your system with
incorrect registry information from other sections that may have
changed in the meantime. The 'right way to do it' involves a cut &
paste of the textual representation of the entries being modified, but
this is not obvious, practical, or easy to do.

> Order does matter in M$ view of INI files. IOW you _can_ (advisability of using ini
> sections that way in another thing ;-) retrieve multiple sym value info from a section
> such as
> 
> [section]
> sym=value1
> sym=value2

I'm aware of that, and that was one of the design issues from the very
beginning. My intention is to convert these values to Python lists
upon reading, and to declare them as lists in the class statement:

class section(IniSection):
    symlst = TypeAttribute([value1, value2])

A few extra keyword parameters for the TypedAttribute may be helpful
to set typed checking behavior when reading list entries, but this is
still being thought out.

> Basic usage is simple and ok, but a clean general info repository it is not, IMO.

Thats the point -- it's not supposed to be a general repository, as is
the case with the Windows registry. Each application can keep its own
config file using a simple and readable representation, using the file
system (which is already a very good 'general repository') and
standard text files.

----
p.s. It seems to me that entire reasoning behind the Windows registry
was to allow to provide the OS with a central control hook as far as
access to configuration information was concerned. In this regard, the
registry is a failed experiment -- just look at how easy is for any
piece of junkware to use it to store their own information.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Oct 11 09:52:35 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:52:35 +0200
Subject: store files in mysql
In-Reply-To: <416A86EE.7000507@alco.co.hu>
References: <416A86EE.7000507@alco.co.hu>
Message-ID: <20041011135235.GA18049@nl.linux.org>

Ivan Horvath wrote:
> From: Ivan Horvath <i.horvath at alco.co.hu>
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
> 	rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: store files in mysql
> X-Spambayes-Classification: ham; 0.028
> Old-Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:13:18 +0200
> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:09:00 +0200 (CEST)

Ivan,

to raise your chances for answers, please don't post in HTML but in
Plain Text. Many of us (me included) cannot read HTML mail.

regards,
Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 11/10 15:25:
	12.0?C Few clouds mostly clear wind 7.2 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
-- 
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of
unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the
military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of
misplaced power exists and will persist.
    -Dwight David Eisenhower, January 17, 1961


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Oct 26 00:09:53 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:09:53 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com><_aadnTCr7PWKYeHcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>
	<940ee3e8.0410251927.38347d92@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <clkima$rou$1@sea.gmane.org>


"kartik" <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:940ee3e8.0410251927.38347d92 at posting.google.com...
> 1)catching overflow bugs in the language itself frees u from writing
> overflow tests.

It is a fundamental characteristic of counts and integers that adding 1 is 
always valid.  Given that, raising an overflow exception is itself a bug, 
one that Python had and has now eliminated.

If one wishes to work with residue classes mod n, +1 is also still always 
valid.  It is just that (n-1) + 1 is 0 instead of n.  So again, raising an 
overflow error is a bug.

A number system that prohibits +1 for some fixed number n models, for 
instance, packing items into a container.  However, the limit n could be 
anything, so fixing it at, say, 2**31 - 1 is almost always useless.

The use of fixed range ints is a space-time machine performance hack that 
has been costly in human thought time.

Terry J. Reedy







From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 03:59:45 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:59:45 +0200
Subject: Database Connectivity
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
	<1gl8by8.1ay6g301hrswe8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<XZfad.18001$b5.884997@news3.tin.it>
	<Bdhad.18298$b5.899971@news3.tin.it>
	<BvCdne92t9yqU_fcRVn-pw@megapath.net>
	<mailman.4723.1097525156.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gljewt.t3m4wtirod26N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
   ...
> But the question remains: why use a "watered down" version of a
> database, or pay for an "industrial-strength" version of it when there
> are free alternatives that actually surpass both versions?

To play devil's advocate: there could (in theory) be sound reasons, such
as different projected costs for support, migration, and the like.  I do
not think this kind of thing is ever a good reason to choose inferior
technology, such as the Jet engine -- I believe people who have been
doing new development based on Jet, ever since MS made it quite clear
they didn't like it any more (4-5 years ago at least), have been myopic.
But if a technology is sound (and MSDE/SQL Server appears to be), the
trade-offs may be different.


> > like everything they do either, but to pay my salary, the company I work for
> > has to make money, not live on indignant or righteous attitudes.  I use
> > whatever works best for the particular customer I have to work with.
> 
> Reasonable attitude.  Despite being a Linux afficianado, I still
> recommend Windows for most user's desktops, simply because there isn't

Mac OS X is actually quite superior, though I found out less than a year
ago, and "by accident" -- just because I bought an iBook 12", as the
truly-portable laptop with the best price/performance ratio, intending
to install Linux on it, then discovered that Darwin/OSX is better.

These days, for most users' desktops, I recommend a Mac (there are of
course some exceptions, e.g. if they absolutely need a specific
application that just doesn't run there) -- though Linux on the desktop
is generally quite usable these days (_laptops_ are another story... Mac
is really the only way to go;-).

> enough payoff to justify the learning curve for most people were they to
> switch.  Linux has major advantages over Windows in many areas, but the
> desktop currently isn't one of them.

It's getting there (though laptops are farther behind).


> >  If MS
> > has a product that does what I need it to, I'll use it.  If Python is a
> > better way to do things, I'll use it, if QBasic, if Delphi, if...
> 
> You'll use QBasic?  And where will you get it from?  I point this out
> simply to highlight your apparent blindness to Microsoft's abandonment
> of actively used tools (which you cite later as a reason to prefer MS
> over open source projects).

Yes, this IS a crucial issue.  If an open-source project is "abandoned",
your own projects based on it are _not_ dead or forced to migrate: you
have the option of continuing to use the existing project, taking it up
to develop it further, or at an intermediate level doing some minimal
maintenance on it, etc.  If a piece of commercial software is
*abandoned*, OTOH, your own projects based on it are in deep trouble;
you _are_ forced to migrate, or try to -- beause you cannot buy the
software and new licenses for it any more.




> despite having the same name.  You yourself have mentioned at least two
> MS technologies that either no longer exist or are being phased out
> (QBasic and JET). Now, unlike you, I'm going to be fair and acknowledge
> that this is simply the nature of software.  Microsoft, and its open
> source competitors, do well to occasionally abandon existing platforms
> as new technologies, architectures, and plain old hindsight dictate.

Yes, but if you've done value-added development on top of old plaftorms,
you're in much better shape, with many more options, when those
platforms are open, and generally very badly placed when those platforms
are commercial.

> > Sorry about the long rant, but so much mis-information has been passed along
> > in this thread and in  past threads, mainly due to so much MS hatred,
> > deserved or not, that  I felt I had to speak up.  
> 
> Well, certainly opinions of MS are just that.  But all else aside,
> Microsoft made my job miserable for enough years with shifting API's,
> buggy software, inflexible/limited/incompatible tools that I feel quite
> justified in my contempt for them.  And that's before considering their
> company from any ethical standpoint.

Fair enough.  I've delved into MS stuff for enough years to agree with
you on these points.  Once in a while something worthwhile does come out
of Redmond, but it appears to be the exception rather than the rule.


Alex


From peter at semantico.com  Mon Oct  4 11:00:11 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:00:11 +0100
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
In-Reply-To: <4f0a9fdb.0410032146.6ac9055f@posting.google.com>
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
	<4f0a9fdb.0410032146.6ac9055f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4161657c$0$14429$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Miki Tebeka wrote:
> 3. When asked about time estimation say something like "in C/C++/Java"
>    it'll be around two weeks, in Python I can do it in less than one"

On the other hand never rubbish another language just to make Python look better 
unless your examples are correct and relevant. This means to bad mouth Perl you 
had better be a damned good Perl programmer otherwise you will just be labeled 
as an 'ignorant whinny shit'.

This means you do not use the half arsed Perl code that has appeared in this 
news group as your evidence. Some managers have been / are programmers and are 
going to see that you have no great and are probably a crap programmer.


From tchur at optushome.com.au  Fri Oct  1 18:03:00 2004
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 02 Oct 2004 08:03:00 +1000
Subject: Social Analysis and Modeling for Python
In-Reply-To: <a8623416.0410011046.5c2638cd@posting.google.com>
References: <415AD6A4.7000400@cloudthunder.com>
	<1096493975.1238.45.camel@emilio>
	<mailman.4108.1096499054.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<a8623416.0410011046.5c2638cd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1096668180.1282.66.camel@emilio>

On Sat, 2004-10-02 at 04:46, Corey Coughlin wrote:
> Actually, back in school, I worked for a sociology professor doing a
> human population simulator, where we had all these people objects and
> a set of functions that updated their attributes as time went on, but
> we were forced to do it in C to have in run on the campus
> supercomputer, so it wasn't what you'd call object oriented.  I can
> see how using Python would make the modeling aspects a lot simpler. 
> So, to sum, sounds cool, hope you have a lot of sucess with it.

Yes, my 9 yr old son loves playing SimCity (so do I) - see
http://simcity.ea.com A political economy plug-in for SimCity would be
cool. Maybe the Social Analysis and Modeling for Python project should
also look at the Pygame framework (see http://www.pygame.org )? Just
don't tell the academics...

-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0





From faheem at email.unc.edu  Sat Oct  9 17:11:23 2004
From: faheem at email.unc.edu (Faheem Mitha)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 17:11:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: integer type conversion problem/question
In-Reply-To: <20041009135423.0881.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041009124139.EDB7.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<Pine.LNX.4.61.0410091619420.8590@Chrestomanci>
	<20041009135423.0881.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0410091708190.8590@Chrestomanci>



On Sat, 9 Oct 2004, Josiah Carlson wrote:

>> I'd looked at this earlier, but they didn't seem to have implemented a C
>> API. If there is one, I haven't been able to find it in
>> http://python.org/doc/2.3.4/api/api.html or anywhere else. I don't want to
>> import Python code into C/C++ even if that is possible. I think it is
>> easiest to work with a straight C/C++ library and interface it with
>> Python, assuming that I don't run into type conversion issues.
>
> So what you are saying is that you have some C code that needs to use
> random numbers, and that some higher-level Python module uses the output
> from your module.

Well, I want to the seed to be read and written to Python after each call 
to the C code. A modest desire, I think, but the out-of-the-box 
functionality for this in Python does not seem to exist yet.

>> A random number C module does exist in Python 2.3. On my system (Debian
>> Sarge) it is /usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload/_random.so. However, it is
>> probably not set up to be directly accessed from C/C++ code.
>
> I would suggest borrowing the necessary parts of _random.c, and call it
> good.  It is available via CVS in src/Modules .

Ok. I'll take a look at the sources. I wonderif I be able to use them 
without too much fuss in my C code, or whether will have I have to wrestle 
with all the Python C api stuff.
                                                                  Faheem.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 18:45:34 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 00:45:34 +0200
Subject: inconsistent value from __builtins__
References: <yyo4qlem6db.fsf@hooknose.lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <1gl076x.1o1wn2bcgkhgkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Michael Hohn <hohn at hooknose.lbl.gov> wrote:
   ...
> >>> print type(builtin_check.get_global_binding('__builtins__'))
> <type 'dict'>
> >>> print type(__builtins__)
> <type 'module'>
   ...
> Is this difference in return value intentional?

Well, it's _documented_ that '__builtins__' can be either a dictionary
or a module, and it's been that way for a long time.  Whether it's
intentional (or sensible), I don't know.  In any case, the idea is that
if you need to access the built-in namespace directly, you should start
with "import __builtin__" (note, no 's') which will definitely give you
a module.  Yeah, it _is_ somewhat confusing:-(.


Alex


From dd55 at cornell.edu  Fri Oct  8 20:34:38 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:34:38 -0400
Subject: module name not recognized
References: <ck6s3u$bp4$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<J-mdneEJ14ewYfvcRVn-hA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <ck7bmn$h30$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

Larry Bates wrote:

> Darren Dale wrote:
>> I have built two basic modules using distutils. One of them installs
>> fine, but the other, I can't import modules from it. I've been pouring
>> over the code and I cant find the problem.
>> 
>> I know the file has been copied to site-packages/mypackage, but I cant do
>> 
>> from mypackage import mymodule
>> 
>> Could I get suggestions as to why a module would be installed but not
>> registered?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Darren
> 
> Two things to check:
> 
> Does the package have the required __init__.py file?
> Is the directory where it is installed on the PYTHONPATH?
> 
> Larry Bates

Thanks Larry,
I checked both before writing the original post, this isnt the problem.





From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct 30 11:20:52 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:20:52 +0200
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <eLadnS8y84jmPx7cRVn-1Q@speakeasy.net>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnco6oak.nn.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
	<2uh8ckF2954t4U1@uni-berlin.de> <du71xfgtm0p.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<eLadnS8y84jmPx7cRVn-1Q@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <2uhpqlF2arp3cU1@uni-berlin.de>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> On 30 Oct 2004 15:42:46 +0300, 
> 	Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
>> Well, if they are any good we'll just port them to Python. "import
>> re2" and we are all set. Everyone wins.
> 
> I don't think so.  Perl5 regexes are pretty independent of the rest of the
> language, but Perl6's are interweaved with the rest of Perl's syntax, so I
> don't think we'll ever see a Perl6-equivalent of PCRE.  

The interweaving is only important if you "design your program as one
big regex" ;). There is the possibility of embedded closures, OK, but
one can live without it.

The assignment of variables in regexes can surely be reproduced in a
PCRE lib.

And I can imagine to wrap up the Perl6 concept of grammars in a class
that then can resolve referenced regexes.

(Perl6 proposes this sort of syntax for grouping regexes:

grammar Some_Grammar {
    rule identifier { [a-z]* }
    rule plus_expression { <identifier> \+ <identifier> }
    etc.
}

)

I just think that the new RE syntax is much cleaner and easier to read.
We'll see how other languages adapt or not.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Tue Oct  5 17:05:39 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:05:39 -0400
Subject: Python concatenation Question problem
In-Reply-To: <20041005194558.46244.qmail@web51909.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041005194558.46244.qmail@web51909.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41630CA3.7070304@mediapulse.com>



Kory Wheatley wrote:

> I have the the following string variable called *mlist  *that contains 
> the value *ccinfolist *here is what I've tried to do to join this 
> variable with another string value.
>  
> First attempt
>  
> url = http://www.isu.edu + mlist
>  
> error I receive:
> *TypeError: cannot add type "instance" to string mlist*

Well, the first line you mention above, the URL itself should have been 
in quotes. However I assume you actually did so and just didn't type 
them into the email since otherwise you'd have a syntax error! At any 
rate, you need to figure out what exactly "mlist" is. Since it says it's 
an "instance" that means it's an instance of a class, and not a string. 
So... If this sounds correct, then you'll need to simply use this instead:

url = "http://www.isu.edu" + str(mlist)

You'll probably need to define the __str__ method if it's not defined 
already in your class.

Gabriel.


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Wed Oct 20 04:28:28 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:28:28 +0200
Subject: Integrate Tile into Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <3Gkdd.2134$Ag.1192@fe37.usenetserver.com>
References: <3Gkdd.2134$Ag.1192@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <41761fe8$0$28805$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Kevin Walzer wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Are there any plans to integrate the Tile extension from Tk into
> Tkinter? This theming extension allows native look and feel under
> Windows XP and OS X, in particular, and adds a lot of theming
> flexibility to Tk apps. In fact, it would bring Tkinter pretty much in
> line with wxPython in terms of a native "look" on various platforms,
> though wx still has a larger set of core widgets. I've seen only a
> little discusison about Tile in Python circles, but it's one of the most
> important advances going on with Tcl/Tk these days. Anyway, I'm just
> curious, as I have some experience with Tcl/Tk and am learning Python.

It should just be a matter of patience, since - according to 
http://wiki.tcl.tk/11075 - the tile package will integrated in tk8.5 (originally 
planned for late summer '04, but not "officially" available yet...). And Tkinter 
maintainers out there usually do a great job and quickly integrate tk extensions 
once they are released.
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct 22 04:54:18 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:54:18 +0100
Subject: How can I do French and English Spell Checking using MS Word 
	from Python
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B4C@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Pater Maximus]

| Well I thought I had the problem solved, but it stopped 
| working for both Dispatch and EnsureDispatch. 

Just to clarify something here: once you've run EnsureDispatch
at least once, both Dispatch and EnsureDispatch do the same
thing. All that EnsureDispatch does is to make sure that a
proxy module has been generated.

| import win32com.client
| import msword9
| #msword = win32com.client.Dispatch("Word.Application")
| #msword.Selection.LanguageID=1033
| msword = win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch ("Word.Application")
| msword.Selection.LanguageID = 1033

I'm not sure what that "import msword9" is doing there. Is it
a module of your own? At any rate, you're not using it in this
code snippet.

| Here is what happened.
| * I added German language spell checking to Word and started getting
| AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'LanguageID'

Roger Upole said in another thread that an empty Word application
has no Selection object. That may well be true, but the following
code works perfectly for me, whether because it *isn't* true, or because
Word is automatically giving you at least one Document to work with.
In either case, it doesn't seem to be your problem.

<code>
import win32com.client

msword = win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch ("Word.Application")
const = win32com.client.constants
msword.Selection.LanguageID = const.wdGerman

</code>

[... snip description of rebuilding ...]

This shouldn't have made any difference (altho' there's no
harm in it, just in case something had corrupted or become
misplaced).

Do you think you could post an *exact* dump of your interpreter
window, showing enough steps for the app to fail, and showing
the error message you receive?

Thanks
TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
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From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Wed Oct 20 19:45:04 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:45:04 +0200
Subject: How do I check if Telnet session is open?
In-Reply-To: <4176e8a2$0$21106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <1098222810.359040.241080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1098311316.261193.274170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<4176e8a2$0$21106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <4176f880$0$14941$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> The select call waits until you can *write* to the sockets.
> It should read:
> 
> w, r, e = select.select([sock, sock2], [], [] )

Darn, I forgot to switch the w,r around too. It must be:

r, w, e = select.select([sock, sock2], [], [] )


--Irmen


From maxm at mxm.dk  Sun Oct 31 05:49:22 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:49:22 +0100
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <2uiaqmF2as1ihU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<4183f2b0$0$209$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<2uiaqmF2as1ihU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4184c277$0$265$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> Max M wrote:
>>
>>I just wonder what the difference is between .net, Mono and Parrot?
>>
>>To me they all seem to pretty similar goals.
> 
> .NET and Mono _are_ pretty much the same - Mono is an open-source
> reimplementation of the .NET framework.

Yes, I know that. But know that is both .net and mono, why parrot?

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From spam at nospam.org  Wed Oct 27 14:33:38 2004
From: spam at nospam.org (Erik Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:33:38 -0600
Subject: using re.finditer()
Message-ID: <417fe88d$1@nntp.zianet.com>

    I am still fairly new to Python and trying to learn to put RE's to good
use. I am a little confused about the finditer() method. It is documented
like so:

      finditer( pattern, string)

Return an iterator over all non-overlapping matches for the RE pattern in
string. For each match, the iterator returns a match object. Empty matches
are included in the result unless they touch the beginning of another match.
New in version 2.2.


    I would say this documentation is not quite right (or incomplete at
best) because it doesn't document any restriction about multiline matching,
but it certainly seems to have one.  This would seem to be an ideal
application for finditer()...

#! /usr/bin/python

import re

html = """
<table>
  <tr>
    <td>Data 1-1</td>
    <td>Data 1-2</td>
    <td>Data 1-3</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Data 2-1</td>
    <td>Data 2-2
    </td>
    <td>Data 2-3</td>
  </tr>
</table>
"""

pat = r'<td.*?>(.*?)</td>'
for match in re.finditer(pat, html):
  print match.group(1)


    The iterator returned seems to work fine to step through items that
happen to be contained within one line. That is, you can step through flat,
one-line td's, but if you want to step through tr's, this doesn't work (run
this code and notice Data 2-2 is not there). finditer() doesn't accept a
flag like re.DOTALL, as re.match() and re.search() do. It seems a shame not
to be able to put an otherwise smart design to use.

    One work around to this is by applying a regualr RE like
'<tr.*?>(.*?)</tr>', finding the first match, and then chopping off the
found part as you go.  Another is to change the pattern to something like:
pat = r'<td.*?>([\n\w\s\d-]*?)</td>'    I guess I will get one of those
implemented and get this task done, but I am still interested in learning to
use RE's better.
Interestingly, using pat = r'<td.*?>([\r\n.]*?)</td>' does NOT work, and I
don't understand why - can someone explain that?
What exactly would be the equivalent set for dot with re.DOTALL turned on
([\w\W\r\n] works here, but does that really cover it)? Other ideas?

    I can think of split & join substituion tricks & the like to replace \n
with something else, then put it back in, but that get's kinda messy and
requires you to find some special substitution character that's not
elsewhere. I want to apply this to dynamically generated text that I don't
control and keep this as general as possible.  I'm wondering if I'm not
missing something here - is there no way to make finditer() work
(straightforwardly) on multilines using just a simple dot RE?

Thanks for taking the time to read my post! :)

-ej




From mnations at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 18:28:36 2004
From: mnations at gmail.com (Mudcat)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 15:28:36 -0700
Subject: How do I check if Telnet session is open?
In-Reply-To: <1098222810.359040.241080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1098222810.359040.241080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1098311316.261193.274170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Let me narrow the focus a little since I've found out how this is
usually done. I'm attempting to solve the problem using select. However
I can't get the select function to block until something's available.
Here is my code. I am running on windows.

>>> conn = telnetlib.Telnet("10.10.10.89", "3083")
>>> conn2 = telnetlib.Telnet("10.10.10.89", "3083")
>>> sock = conn.get_socket()
>>> sock2= conn2.get_socket()
>>> sock.setblocking(1)
>>> sock2.setblocking(1)
>>> w, r, e = select.select([], [sock, sock2], [] )

Pretty simple really. I'm blocking on the sockets which should block on
the select call. However it never blocks. The call returns immediately
spitting back out both my sockets which have nothing in them. When I do
a socket recv on both, they block because they contain no info. The
select should have never returned in the first place.
Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct  5 16:58:55 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 13:58:55 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <4162F271.9060407@cloudthunder.com>
References: <20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162F271.9060407@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <20041005132902.ECE3.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> >Terribly interesting, but well nigh impossible to corroborate.
> >
> >Take for example if I were to claim that I were a graduate student in
> >computer science theory at the University of California, Irvine.  A
> >little bit of investigation would lead you to discover that I am
> >likely the person I claim to be (header examination, university search,
> >etc.).
> >
> I could[n't] care less honestly.

Ahh, but here's the rub; I posted responses to your questions that were,
on the most part, helpful.  Had I broken the law in my post (a
surprisingly easy thing to do in the states), knowing that I was who I
claimed to be would be particularly useful.

In this case, you are making the claim to not use this information as
part of a homework assignment, which while not being illegal, is
generally understood to be amoral, according to academic practices in
most parts of the world.

You have managed to be quite reasonable and calm through the entire
thread, but you seemed to have missed much of the sarcasm in "Mark
English's" post.


> She's not a professor, she teaches middle school social science 
> (primarily history which is her specialty).

That significantly reduces the probability of their being proof of her
position on the internet.  There goes that idea.


> I'm really not interested in playing games or divulging personal 
> information to complete strangers.  The way you phrase it, "If you 
> satisfy me", as if you were some sort of devil or something.  I am 
> grateful that you answered my questions, and did not expect anyone to 
> attempt to answer all of them.  I was hoping people who were experts in 

Ahh the devil, if one chooses to believe in them, I am surely not.
Mailing list Don...not even close.  I'm just a guy who can prove who he
is.  And at least for some places on the internet, that can matter.


> Anyhow, excuse my ignorance.  Who I am is really not a concern.  If I 
> was a student, I wouldn't be on the computer from 10:00 in the morning 
> to 3:00 at night.  I'd have class.  

Schedules vary.  Student sleep schedules can be truely strange (I know
some who sleep 3 hours/night).  This is a reasonably valid point,
however.

> I think you did me a favor, but the 
> favor you ask is far too personal.  People on usenet seem to have 
> something vicious in them and I have no intent to play that game.

True enough, but python-list is available via mailing list, which is how
I access it.

Re: my viciousness; the great majority of my personal to-dos have been
chronicled on my blog, which dates back to March 17, 1999.  If I were
truely vicious, (and you had the time to read through it all), I believe
it would be there, or at least some remnants of it.


 - Josiah



From jmeile at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 14:25:50 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:25:50 +0200
Subject: Plone FAQ
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4492.1097147898.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4492.1097147898.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41658b69$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

Hi Neil,
 >          Does anyone have a copy of the plone FAQs (the plone link on
 > plone.org is busted) - I'm thinking of moving from Postnuke to Plone
 > because I can't be arsed to learn PHP!

I heard they were doing some maintenance. If you have the exact link, 
then you could try the internet archive:

http://www.archive.org/

Otherwise, do a search with google under plone.org and use the cache 
feature of this engine.

Regards,
Josef


From matt.price at utoronto.ca  Thu Oct 28 12:48:39 2004
From: matt.price at utoronto.ca (Matt Price)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:48:39 -0400
Subject: piping a stream to a python script
In-Reply-To: <20041027221831.2F79.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
References: <mailman.5590.1098907476.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<20041027221831.2F79.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <20041028164839.GA32710@utoronto.ca>

On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 12:18:31AM +0200, Maciej Dziardziel wrote:
> Matt Price wrote:
> 
> > I'd like to capture the stream in a string object.  Is there a simle
> > way to do this?
> 
> Just read read from sys.stdin.
> 
thank you, sorry to be such a dope!
m


-------------------------------------------
Matt Price	    matt.price at utoronto.ca
History Department, University of Toronto
(416) 978-2094
--------------------------------------------

please don't use the following addresses:  zeus at derailleur.org
aardvark at derailleur.org


From jerry at jerrysievers.com  Tue Oct 26 19:02:02 2004
From: jerry at jerrysievers.com (Jerry Sievers)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 19:02:02 -0400
Subject: Charting package?
Message-ID: <m3sm81hymt.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>

Dear Pythonists;

I would appreciate a recommendation of a open source package for
charting numeric data such as stock market quotes etc.

Have such a thing in PHP called JPGraph which is very nice.
Equivalent system in Python is desired.  Needn't be very complex as
long as the basic charting types (lines, points, bars etc) are
supported.

Thanks

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile	http://www.JerrySievers.com/


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Oct 18 17:31:35 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:31:35 +0200
Subject: htmldata and python 2.2
In-Reply-To: <ckmjth$i26$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
References: <ckmjth$i26$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
Message-ID: <41743636$0$24525$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Tim Arnold wrote:
> the htmldata module looks just like what I need, but it's for Python 2.3,
> and  I'm stuck at Python 2.2 (using HP ux10.10)

Googling for "python htmldata" does not bring up anything interesting,
google asks whether I meant "python html data".

What is the htmldata module?

Regards,
Martin


From indigo at bitglue.com  Fri Oct  8 16:59:02 2004
From: indigo at bitglue.com (Phil Frost)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:59:02 -0400
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <4166FE2E.2070905@kzoo.edu>
References: <4166F64A.5080504@kzoo.edu> <20041008204409.GA5869@unununium.org>
	<4166FE2E.2070905@kzoo.edu>
Message-ID: <20041008205902.GA7404@unununium.org>

On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 04:53:02PM -0400, dataangel wrote:
> Phil Frost wrote:
> 
> >^ is the bitwise xor operator. Performing bitwise operations on strings
> >doesn't make much sense, so it's invalid. You can define a logical xor
> >function like so:
> >
> >xor = lambda p, q: (p and not q) or (not p and q)
> >
> >or equivalently:
> >
> >xor = lambda p, q: bool(p) != bool(q)
> >
> >On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 04:19:22PM -0400, dataangel wrote:
> > 
> >
> >> ...
> >>Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for detecting if 
> >>two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for strings shouldn't be 
> >>supported. Am I missing something? Inparticular, I think it'd be cool to 
> >>have "xor" as opposed to "^". The carrot would return the resulting 
> >>value, while "xor" would act like and/or do and return the one that was 
> >>true (if any).
> > 
> >
> Nice =D
> 
> But why no xor builtin? :P

I think it would be nice, but one argument is that it's not possible to
short-circut xor, both sides must be evaluated to determine the result.
Contrast this with 'and' and 'or', which know after evaluating the first
expression if it's required to evaluate the latter. For example:

0 and 123	-> 0
False and 123	-> False
123 or False	-> 123

But since both sides of xor must be evaluated, there is no reason to
return one expression over the other. I would argue it should always
return True or False.


From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Wed Oct  6 11:07:00 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:07:00 GMT
Subject: Cross-tabulation module in Python
References: <mailman.4383.1097012371.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xqx4ql7dgx7.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> writes:

> Ajith Prasad wrote:
> > Anyone knows of a reference to a statistical cross-tabulation module
> > in Python? Thanks in advance.
> 
> If I understand you correctly, that shouldn't be hard to write yourself.
> You can see an example of mine at
> svn://casadeamor.com/dejavu/trunk/analysis.py
> 
> 
> Robert Brewer
> MIS
> Amor Ministries
> fumanchu at amor.org

In addition to roll-your-own, the OP can consider using "R", with its
python binding:
http://www.r-project.org/
http://www.omegahat.org/RSPython/index.html



-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From mauriceling at acm.org  Wed Oct 13 22:22:52 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 02:22:52 GMT
Subject: what exception is it?
Message-ID: <416de2f8$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>

Hi,

I'm trapping exceptions with these codes...

try:
	[do something]
except IOError: [IO error handling]
except TypeError: [Type error handling]
except: [other error handling]

in [other error handling], one of the things I need to do is to display 
to the use the kind of exception raised and the message, if any.

How can I do this without a big if statement to go through the list of 
exceptions?

Thanks in advance.

Maurice


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Oct 12 15:33:32 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:33:32 -0700
Subject: Snakelets and WSGI
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F69@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Alan Kennedy:
> 
> > Ah, one of the key questions! And the answer is that, iff you write 
> > Snakelets according to the WSGI API, then it should be 
> > easily usable on
> > asynchronous architectures. This is achieved through the 
> > use of python 
> > iterators (e.g. generators), so that application frameworks 
> > generate
> > content on demand, when the server/gateway is ready to 
> > transmit them.

Irmen de Jong:
> Interesting idea. I haven't thought about generating output this way.
> ...
> Sounds neat, but I think this is a hard thing to do for me.
> Anyway we'll see. First have to read the WSGI doc thoroughly.
> ...
> "using generators". I'm using them
> for other things, but not the generation of output...

Hoepfully you'll find it's simple. You should be able to take
YPage.write() for example, and queue the output into an iterable which
the WSGI server can then iterate over.

The tough part will be that anyone already using Snakelets will have to
rewrite their code if they want to *benefit* from the switch to
iteration; they'll have to change "write()" to "yield value". This
unfortunately means most CGI scripts will have to be generators. This
can be mitigated somewhat by allowing code in, say, overridden
Snakelets.serve() methods to return content as well as yield content (so
not every block of code which calls write() has to be turned into a
generator). Just examine the result of the callable in question; if it
doesn't have a next() attribute, wrap it in iter(list(result)). Kludgy
but it works.



Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From jparlar at cogeco.ca  Wed Oct  6 22:50:32 2004
From: jparlar at cogeco.ca (Jay Parlar)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:50:32 -0400
Subject: Metaclass Question
In-Reply-To: <864d3709041006162364ba57e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9B63271C-17E9-11D9-BD3F-000A95DA8A1C@cogeco.ca>
	<864d3709041006162364ba57e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A85B75FA-180B-11D9-BD3F-000A95DA8A1C@cogeco.ca>


On Oct 6, 2004, at 7:23 PM, CarThe answer is *simple*. In fact, it's 
embarassingly simple. Do it
> inside a loop. Really.
>
> for i in range(10):
>     def newfunc(...):
>         ...
>
> ... will create as many copies of newfunc as you want; it will bind
> all to the same name in the local namespace, but each and every
> instance will be different. The func_name attribute will be 'newfunc'
> for all functions created, though; but if you're using 2.4, you can
> rename them later, by changing the func_name attribute, that is now
> writable.
>

But in the example I posted, new_func already is in a loop (for 
func_name in funcs)
On the surface, it looks like it works. The keys in cls.nameReg[name] 
show different references for the new_funcs, but when they're actually 
called, they all run with the same values.

Jay P.
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From benji at benjiyork.com  Sat Oct 23 21:22:31 2004
From: benji at benjiyork.com (Benji York)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:22:31 -0500
Subject: Connecting to SQL Server from UNIX
In-Reply-To: <1098470345.417953c9ba4b6@mail.conwaycorp.net>
References: <1098470345.417953c9ba4b6@mail.conwaycorp.net>
Message-ID: <417B03D7.80401@benjiyork.com>

yuba at conwaycorp.net wrote:
> Is it possible for me to connect to a MS SQL-Server from a UNIX box via Python
> (2.3)? 

Check out ODBTP (http://odbtp.sourceforge.net/) and my (alpha) Python DB 
API 2.0 bindings for it (http://benjiyork.com/odbtp.html).

You install the ODBTP service on a Windows machine (the one with SQL 
Server or a different one) and use the ODBTP client to connect to it 
from Unix, Linux, Windows, etcetera.

Here's a small example program:


import odbtpapi

connectString = 'Driver=SQL Server;Server=10.0.0.1;UID=sa;PWD=thepassword;'
connection = odbtpapi.connection(connectString, server='10.0.0.2')
cursor = connection.cursor()
sql = 'select * from MyDatabase..MyTable where someColumn = ?'
cursor.execute(sql, ['A Value'])
for row in cursor.fetchall():
     print row

print cursor.description

-- 
Benji York
benji at benjiyork.com



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 16:07:24 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:07:24 -0700
Subject: locks
In-Reply-To: <ckjf70$rcg$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4835.1097670275.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qa-dnWDkDKi-uPDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4845.1097675044.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckjd0k$li6$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4855.1097677251.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckjf70$rcg$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <10mr2j1a6qj94d0@corp.supernews.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>But so far in my expirience, explicit serialization of access to certain
>data structures was only necessary when more complicated structural
>modifications where under way - but the usual suspects, as appending to
>lists, insertion of values in dicts and the like never needed this. And
>that I wanted to point out.
>  
>

... provided, of course, that no thread expects to maintain internal 
consistency.  For example, a thread doing something like:

    foo_list.append(foo)
    assert(foo == foo_list[-1])

The assertion here is *not* guaranteed to be true, and if one is 
modifying and then reading a mutable object, it can be somewhat tricky 
to ensure that no such assumptions creep into code. 

Similarly, in

    if foo_list[-1] is not None:
        foo = foo_list.pop()

Here, foo may indeed be None, because another thread may have appended 
to the list in between the test and the call to pop() -- but this is 
getting into the "more complicated structural modifications" that you 
mention. 

A slightly trickier example, though:

    foo_list[-1] == foo_list[-1]

I believe that this can't be guaranteed to always evaluate to True in a 
(non-locking) multithreaded case, because foo_list can be modified in 
between the two lookups.

Thus, while it's pretty safe to assume that accessing shared objects 
won't, in and of itself, cause an exception, the case about "mangled 
data" is hazier and depends on how exactly you mean "mangled".

I expect that most of us know this and would never assume otherwise, I 
just wanted to make that explicit for the benefit of the O.P. and others 
who're unfamiliar with threading, as it seems to me that this point 
might've gotten a bit confused for those who didn't already understand 
it well.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From rowen at cesmail.net  Thu Oct 28 18:58:34 2004
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:58:34 -0700
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
References: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<clnnsa$b88$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
	<8249c4ac.0410281110.39d68dc2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <rowen-643489.15583428102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <8249c4ac.0410281110.39d68dc2 at posting.google.com>,
 cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony C) wrote:

>Michele Petrazzo <michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it> wrote in message 
>> The problem is that there are spaces into the path. Try to user 
>> os.popen3('"C:\\Program\ Files\\ds9\\ds9"').
>> The better choice is:
>> 
>> path_complete = os.path.join('c:\\', 'Program Files', 'ds', 'ds9')
>> os.popen3('"'+ path_complete +'"' )
>> 
>> It work for me.
>> 
>> Michele
>
>Try using raw strings, as I had posted in my reply.
>Then you don't have to mess with joining strings, or using double
>backslashes, or qoutes within quotes.
>
>>>os.popen3(r"C:\Program\ Files\ds9\ds9")

I find this fails the same way as  not using r"..." and doubling the 
backslashes. Windows thinks the path to the executable stops at the 
space. (I tried os.popen3(r"C:\Program Files\ds9\ds9") and the less 
likely variant os.popen3(r"C:\Program\ Files\ds9\ds9"))

More info for anyone still following this thread:
The new subprocess module has promise here as a replacement for 
os.popen3, since it allows a separate executable argument. Unfortunately 
my tests indicate that executable and commands-as-strings (instead of 
lists) aren't compatible; I've reported this as bug 1056441 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1056441&group_i
d=5470&atid=105470> for anyone who wants details.

I could recode to use commands-as-lists. This works, but is a big 
headache for interactive use (one of the main targets for this module).

Also, for ds9 or xpa users:
- On Windows: ds9 will not connect to xpa unless the current directory 
includes xpans or xpans is already running. Yecch. I ended up using 
os.chdir before spawning ds9, then changing back.

- spaces in file names ARE bad news (as somebody warned me). ds9 can 
open files with spaces in their names using the File menu, but not using 
xpa. If the file name has a space you are totally out of luck. If the 
path has a space (but not the file name) then you can try various tricks:
- quote the path in '"..."' (single quotes on the outside; no other form 
of double quoting I tried worked). Fails on Windows.
- backslash-escape the spaces. Fails on Windows, of course.
- chdir to the file's directory first, then open, then chdir back. But 
you can't be in two places at once. If you use chdir to get around the 
os.popen3 problem of the executable having a space in its path name then 
you can't also use it to get around the other problem.

Sigh.

-- Russell


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Thu Oct 14 04:58:34 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:58:34 +0200
Subject: what exception is it?
In-Reply-To: <416de2f8$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <416de2f8$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <416e3df7$0$7219$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Maurice LING wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trapping exceptions with these codes...
> 
> try:
>     [do something]
> except IOError: [IO error handling]
> except TypeError: [Type error handling]
> except: [other error handling]
> 
> in [other error handling], one of the things I need to do is to display 
> to the use the kind of exception raised and the message, if any.
> 
> How can I do this without a big if statement to go through the list of 
> exceptions?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Maurice

In an except block, the raised exception is available via the function 
exc_info() in module sys. So doing:

import sys
try:
   ...
except:
   excClass, excInst, tb = sys.exc_info()

will get you the execption class (a.k.a type) in excClass and the actual 
instance (a.k.a value) in excInst; tb will be a traceback object that you can 
handle via the traceback module. All this is detailed in the library reference.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From timr at probo.com  Thu Oct  7 01:27:50 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 22:27:50 -0700
Subject: binary numbers
References: <cjv58g$q5i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>	<E62dnZKZl9wKvP7cRVn-gw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.4392.1097017158.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41633247.6000400@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7rk9m0dsvdtunjpm9sh90p42gfgge47t2l@4ax.com>

Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Darren Kirby wrote:
>> 
>>  I think our friend is looking for a module or function that turns 5 into 101 
>> (or perhaps 00000101)
>> 
>> Brad, have a look here:
>> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/219300
>> 
>> -d
>
>Thanks, this is what I need.

No, it isn't.  Registry REG_BINARY values are NOT binary, in the sense of
"a string of ones and zeros".  REG_BINARY means "an arbitrary list of
bytes".  The string "ABCD" is a perfectly legitimate value for a REG_BINARY
registry value; it will display in a hex dump as "41 42 43 44 00".
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Oct  9 15:24:21 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 12:24:21 -0700
Subject: Algorithm used by keyword 'in'
In-Reply-To: <10mfvjtsb0vpk3f@news.supernews.com>
References: <lYS9d.144800$Kt5.79976@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<10mfvjtsb0vpk3f@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <41684013$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

John Roth wrote:
> .... For any other object, it will do whatever that object wants.

Reminds me of one of my favorite technical one-liners:

     Don't anthropomorphize computers.... They don't like that.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Oct 13 19:00:04 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:00:04 -0700
Subject: differentially loading a class at runtime
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F7E@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Maurice Ling wrote:
> Robert Brewer wrote:
> >The way I do it:
> >http://www.aminus.org/rbre/python/xray.py
> >
> >Search for "dynamically import" and you'll find lots of other ways.
> >
> Thank you. It really helps.
> 
> Although you have very kindly placed the codes in public 
> domain, I still 
> wish to seek your permission for using your codes in my 
> thesis work, by virtue of courtesy.

Be my guest. It's a pretty simple script; credit me or not at your
discretion.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at  Fri Oct 22 04:35:36 2004
From: franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:35:36 +0200
Subject: excluding search string in regular expressions
References: <pc7fn0l6i0nso8onn0kh6gvt6o3sug4sd0@4ax.com>
	<fc8fn010l31ae6fqoh0ssj0f40beekafug@4ax.com>
	<H3Odd.4622$F6.1272762@news.siol.net>
	<02dfn0dvebf10uleb8m9kia8nm8cjkhg8n@4ax.com>
	<2tps4sF225s2rU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <0bhhn0965bdrj1em72n90cssfvlac571vr@4ax.com>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:32:37 +0200, "Diez B. Roggisch"
<deets.nospaaam at web.de> wrote:

>> 
>> A more common solution for detecting functions/Methods would be fine.
>
>Maybe you should go for a real parser here - together with a
>C-syntax-grammar. Trying to cram this stuff into regexps is bound for not
>catching special cases. And its gereally difficult to have a regexp _not_
>macht a certain word.
>

Hello Diez,

thanks, yes, it is difficult for "not" find a searchstring in regex ;)

I only want to find a regex for an editor (which is written in python) 
to have a common function (of course it cannot be so accurate as a
parser) to find a function/method defininition.

>Another approach would be to look for closing comments and function
>definitions in several rexes, and use python-logic:
>
>if doxy_close_rex.match(line):
>   line = lines.next()
>   if fun_def_rex.match(line):
>       ....

-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From robin at reportlab.com  Thu Oct  7 05:30:22 2004
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:30:22 +0100
Subject: correct way to detect container type
Message-ID: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

I seem often to allow list/tuple arguments to be a singleton. This leads to code 
of the form

if type(arg) not in (type(()),type([])): arg = [arg]


or alternatively

from type import ListType, TupleType
_seqTypes = ListType, TupleType
......
if type(arg) not in _seqTypes: ....

is there a 'best' way to do this?
-- 
Robin Becker


From omahacountingcrows at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 21:30:00 2004
From: omahacountingcrows at yahoo.com (Patrick Smith)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:30:00 -0400
Subject: Internationalizing a python app
Message-ID: <s8Cgd.204$hp3.50390@read2.cgocable.net>

Hi,
I'm in the middle of developing an application in python, wxPython, and
PythonCard.

The nature of the application require it to be internationalized, and
localized in a number of languages.

I have separate python files for each language file, and import each
language file dynamically as requested by the user.

I currently have the app running in english and spanish without any
problems, however, I recently had the contents of the interface translated
into Farsi (Iranian persian), and I have been unable to get python to play
nice with the language file.

In my spanish file, I set the encoding to utf-8, and everything worked fine,
however, when I do the same for the farsi file, it does not work.

Does anyone have any suggestions that I could try?

Thanks.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 03:35:12 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:35:12 +0200
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
	<ad180$416d49e3$51604868$18466@nf1.news-service-com>
	<ba129ce7.0410152212.3d124886@posting.google.com>
	<1glszmt.1r4o5td16zzgx1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ba129ce7.0410181328.507a91a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1glwcx7.1ad9rc01yl5w0sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

John <johng2001 at rediffmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> My main interest is not GUI controls. Just being able to make code in
> any language available to any other language on the same machine
> regardless of the types of languages (static/dynamic, bytecode/native)

Ah, yes, that was originally the holy grail of ILU, which, if I recall
correctly, did evolve basically into a CORBA solution eventually.  At
any rate, Corba surely has the potential to help (better than COM does
on Windows, for this purpose), assuming you can find acceptable brokers
for your purposes (Corba specifies language bindings for a bazillion
languages, but any given broker may not offer _all_, I believe...).


Alex


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct  7 14:38:51 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:38:51 -0400
Subject: id() collisions on bound methods [was: metaclass and
 customization with parameters]
In-Reply-To: <1gl9x4o.1j1p7klolw9uN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F33@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
	<20041005235752.29723.1522463815.divmod.quotient.10124@ohm>
	<59e9fd3a04100517216b5bf323@mail.gmail.com>
	<864d370904100518566559f66e@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4406.1097030810.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2sjt67F1metb2U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1gl9x4o.1j1p7klolw9uN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41658D3B.9040403@holdenweb.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Jeff Epler wrote:
>>
>>>In the Olden Days, "caching" bound methods would have led to cycles
>>>that were never collected.  Nowadays, there's a cyclic GC collector,
>>>so if that was the killer for this idea maybe it's worth revisiting.
>>
>>Alternatively, creation of the bound method could be skipped
>>altogether in the case where it's going to be immediately called.
>>This could be achieved by having
>>
>>    obj.meth(args)
>>
>>generate a single CALL_METHOD opcode instead of an attribute
>>lookup followed by a call.
> 
> 
> Heh, I was musing about just this sort of thing earlier in another
> thread (about Smalltalk 'message passing' vs Python's method access) --
> but then on this very thread I posted some timing results that suggets
> there's little to be gained in saving the boundmethod object creation
> (or equivalently caching the boundmethod).  If we could somehow save the
> _lookup_ overhead... but I don't think CALL_METHOD would help there (if
> I'm just not seeing some possibility I'd love to be told about it!-).
> 
> 

I seem to remember that the sprint at the first PyCon spent some time 
considering how this might be done, but that even such luminaries as Ka 
Ping and Guido eventually had to admit that it was a hard problem.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct  3 18:45:26 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:45:26 -0400
Subject: limitations of current logging package
In-Reply-To: <2e37dc1.0410020754.739f8744@posting.google.com>
References: <2e37dc1.0409230442.7e74543d@posting.google.com>
	<4edc17eb.0409232031.66ad3d4e@posting.google.com>
	<2e37dc1.0409260220.6ad5cb6c@posting.google.com>
	<JqSdnXgsbLTkosXcRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<2e37dc1.0410020754.739f8744@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <eumdnURFhI6YHP3cRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

Vinay Sajip wrote:
>>For the first problem, I think the exc_info "flag" should be
>>changed so that if it contains actual exception info, or
>>maybe just a tuple of three items, then *that* information
>>is logged instead of a call to sys.exc_info() being made.
> 
> Not quite true, although the documentation could be a little clearer.
> Originally, the exc_info flag was checked for true/false, and this
> check still holds for deciding whether exception info is logged.
> However, in recent versions, if an exception tuple (in the same format
> as returned by sys.exc_info()) is passed, sys.exc_info() is not called
> and the passed tuple is used instead. I aim to update the
> documentation to reflect this.

I take it this is yet another of the changes that was made
only in post-Python-2.3, because in 2.3.4 it does not behave
that way.  If exc_info is set to anything, it is overwritten
with sys.exc_info().

-Peter


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Oct 29 13:57:49 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:57:49 -0400
Subject: globally available objects
References: <5a309bd304102903342ca264f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <clu0am$88d$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Steve" <lonetwin at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:5a309bd304102903342ca264f2 at mail.gmail.com...
> I would like to create an object while importing a module only the
> first time it get's imported. I wonder imports already work in this
> manner.

As Diez said, yes.  From the viewpoint of Python code, a module is a Python 
object.  It particular, it is (has?) a separate namespace.  A module import 
statement is an abbreviated assignment statement.  It binds the object to 
the name indicated -- either its default 'fetch' name or the 'as' name.  So

import math as m
m == __import__('math')

are identical in effect.  If -- and only if -- the interpreter cannot find 
a module associated with that fetch name in its private dictionary of 
fetchname,module pairs (which CPython exposes as sys.modules), then it 
looks and executes code associated with that name.  The behind-the-scene 
details are implementation and version specific.

Even if you delete the association produced by import, the module object 
remains, ready to be reimported into any other module.  To force the 
interpreter to recreate the module from code, you need an explicit reload 
statement.

Terry J. Reedy





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 22 16:10:49 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:10:49 -0400
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1gm28id.6no7311mzliubN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<1098414642.736428.8940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<p5qdnQgpecnQd-XcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<1gm28id.6no7311mzliubN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EZednbO2oKLX9OTcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>

Alex Martelli wrote (a hell of a lot, as usual, and I do hope
he'll forgive me that I chose to skip/skim some material and
try merely to catch the highlights, doubtless missing some
interesting bits in the process):

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>And you've reemphasized my point.  "Testing" is not test-driven
>>development.  In fact, test-driven development is about *design*,
>>not just about testing.  The two are related, but definitely not
> 
> Hmmm... the way I see it, it's about how one (or, better!!!, two: pair
> programming is a GREAT idea) proceeds to _implement_ a design.  The fact
> that the package (or other kind of component) I'm writing will offer a
> class Foo with a no-parameters constructor, methods A, B, and C with
> parameters thus and thus, etc, has hopefully been determined and agreed

We don'really disagree on this point.  I'd clarify my comments just
by saying that depending on what stage you are looking at, there
is always a preceding decision that could be called "design" and some
subsequent work that implements that design.  If you are figuring out
what requirements your system should have, you are "designing" it for
your eventual users in a sense.  If you are analysing requirements
later on and blocking out the major architectural areas and interfaces,
you are doing design, but then the traditional "designers" might still
have to go to work.  Those designers (being the ones we usually saddle
with the title) then do "detailed design" and specify interfaces and
such as you note above, but they aren't yet doing implementation.  Along
comes the programmer pair and they "design" the implementation in their
heads as they come to a failing acceptance test case, then conceive of
some units tests and some code, designing as they go.

In a nutshell, I was talking about that portion of design that occurs
when a good programmer goes to work figuring out just *how* she will
implement that method A with parameters x and y and a failing test
case that says it should act suchlike...  Certainly TDD is not as
much about the more traditional design, the implementation of which
you refer to above.

> TDD may surely help defining the internal structures and algorithms
> within a single component, of course, if that's what you mean by design.

Yep.. saw this while pruning your text.  Had I read more thoroughly
the first time it would have saved all that typing, which I'm now
loathe to remove. :-(

>>tried TDD, they are unlikely to lump it in with simple "unit testing"
>>as it has other properties that aren't obvious on the surface.
> 
> It sure beats "retrofitting" unit tests post facto.  But I'm not sure
> what properties you have in mind here; care to expand?

You've forgotten them at the moment, but I know you know about those
properties such as how TDD *forces* testability on the design/ 
implementation, and thus improves modularity, how it greatly reduces
the incentive and opportunity to gold-plate, how the most critical
tests are run hundreds or thousands of times during a project instead
of a handful of times just prior to shipping, and so forth.

>>was leading worked on code that, if I recall, was somewhat over
>>100,000 lines of Python code including tests.  I don't recall
>>whether that number was the largest piece, or combining several
>>separate applications which ran together but in a distributed
>>system...  

> I think this qualifies as large, assuming the separate applications had
> to cooperate reasonably closely (i.e. acting as "components", even
> though maybe in separate processes and "only" touching on the same
> database or set of files or whatever).

It was a true distributed system, so yes the components
closely cooperated.  Acceptance tests actually ran both pieces
simultaneously, for the more complex tests, and in some few cases
even involved a simulator of the 16-bit embedded devices so that
the test case spanned four levels (web browser, server, third
piece, and the simulator for smaller gadgets).  The simulator, of
course, was written in Python...

-Peter


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Wed Oct 13 05:30:11 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 02:30:11 -0700
Subject: Some notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0410130130.590ad422@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote in message news:<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list at python.org> :

>Or perhaps later you will understand why some of the things you
stated are not applicable.<

Sure, but sometimes outsiders can see some things better.


>not some Windows-only toolkit that doesn't quite have critical mass.<

Maybe Gui4cli code will be released, etc. (wxPython is much more
powerful than Gui4cli-like solutions, so they don't compete, they can
be for different purposes).


>In Py3k, tabs are not going to be allowed as indentation to Python
code.<

Good.


>Colons are a very important delimiter for Python now, and removing
them just makes the syntax more ambiguous for both reading and for
interpreting.<

I've heard similar comments about the leading whitespace used to
determine the grouping of statements.
I keep forgetting those colons, I think they are useful mostly for one
liners, like:
if <cond>: <code>
for c in string: <code>


>Becoming more like Mathematica is not something one should hope for.<

Mathematica is a good and powerful language, with a good design (older
maybe). I see many similarities between Python and Mathematica, and
such similarities seem to increase with time. (I know, Python is OO
and Mathematica usually isn't. But Mathematica can be used as a
functional language, etc.)


>(I can't believe I am replying to someone with the email address
'bearophile')<

I am learning, like everybody else.

Thank you,
a bear hug,
bearophile


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 10:21:17 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:21:17 -0400
Subject: Linksys Router & Python
Message-ID: <cltjkt$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Probably a stupid question, but here goes:

Is there any way to get a scaled down version of Python onto a Linksys 
Wireless router? Are there any projects out there that are doing this? 
I've googled around a bit, but didn't find much. I want to keep the 
router's software as it is, but I also would like to have some scripting 
abilities on it as well (like email the router's IP addy every x hours), 
etc.

I have scripts that run on my computers that do this sort of thing.

def url_open():
     """ Function that gets and returns the IP addy
     of my Linksys BEFW11S4 Wireless DSL router."""
     import urllib, re
     ip = re.compile ('\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}')
     f = urllib.urlopen("http://user:passwd at 192.168.1.1/RouterStatus.htm")
     data = f.read()
     f.close()
     routerip = ip.findall(data)
     print routerip[0]
     return routerip[0]

But, when I leave town for vacation, I don't like leaving a computer 
running. If I could get the interpreter embedded in the device itself, 
then that would solve the problem.

This is probably a shot in the dark, but I thought I'd ask.

Thanks,
Brad


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 26 07:51:40 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 04:51:40 -0700
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
In-Reply-To: <20041025200909.GB28024@kostyrka.org>
References: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8omdnbg6zNc00uHcRVn-iA@giganews.com>
	<20041025200909.GB28024@kostyrka.org>
Message-ID: <1098791501.22370.239.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 22:09 +0200, Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 08:58:27PM -0400, Istvan Albert wrote:
> > Christian Tismer wrote:
> > 
> > >I would love to publish Stackless 3.1, of course.
> > >Also I know that there is some inherent bug in it.
> > 
> > This is not a "Paid Research Project" this is
> > called "Bug Bounty".
> For "paid work" it's not even that well paid ;)

Yes, but he's already made a downpayment with his contributions to the
Python interpreter you have installed for free on your system.

$ find Python-2.3.4 -type f -print0 | xargs --null grep -i tismer | wc
--lines
11

$ find Python-2.3.4 -type f -print0 | xargs --null grep -i istvan | wc
--lines
0

$ find Python-2.3.4 -type f -print0 | xargs --null grep -i kostyrka | wc
--lines
0

Interesting.

*plonk* and *plonk*

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Wed Oct 20 23:19:35 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 03:19:35 GMT
Subject: [Python-Dev] ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <20041018104036.0A2B.JCARLSON@uci.edu><2EE12B0A-212F-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com><20041018120633.0A3D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5133.1098129122.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bVFdd.14488$sO5.10769@fe1.texas.rr.com>

The pyparsing examples directory includes a simple configParse.py config
file parser.  The results are returned as a ParseResults object, which can
be accessed as a list, a dictionary, or an object with attributes, and can
be exported to XML.

I don't propose that configParse is a full-blown config file parser
contender, but I thought the API might offer some other ideas to those of
you considering the ultimate configuration file module.

(BTW, my vote is -10 for any config file format that requires definition of
classes, functions, or other language constructs more complex than
assignment or arithmetic/string expressions.  Config files should be simple
text files for easy reading and editing.)

-- Paul


For example, with this input file:

[users]
source_dir = '/home/karthik/Projects/python'
data_dir   = '/home/karthik/Projects/data'
result_dir = '/home/karthik/Projects/Results'
param_file = $result_dir/param_file
res_file   = $result_dir/result_file
comment    = 'this is a comment'
; a line starting with ';' is a comment
K = 8
simulate_K = 0
N = 4000
mod_scheme = 'QPSK'
Na = K+2

If parsed with configParse.py, the results (returned in a variable, say,
"config") can be accessed as:

    print "config.users :", config.users
    print "config.users.keys() :", config.users.keys()
    print "config.users.N :", config.users.N
    print "config.users['N'] :",config.users['N']
    print "len(config.users) :", len(config.users)
    print "config.users[0] :", config.users[0]
    print "config.asXML('config') :", config.asXML('config')

prints:

config.users : [['source_dir', "'/home/karthik/Projects/python'"],
['data_dir', "'/home/karthik/Projects/data'"], ['result_dir',
"'/home/karthik/Projects/Results'"], ['param_file',
'$result_dir/param_file'], ['res_file', '$result_dir/result_file'],
['comment', "'this is a comment'"], ['K', '8'], ['simulate_K', '0'], ['N',
'4000'], ['mod_scheme', "'QPSK'"], ['Na', 'K+2']]
config.users.keys() : ['comment', 'data_dir', 'mod_scheme', 'Na', 'K',
'simulate_K', 'N', 'res_file', 'result_dir', 'source_dir', 'param_file']
config.users.N : 4000
config.users['N'] : 4000
len(config.users) : 11
config.users[0] : ['source_dir', "'/home/karthik/Projects/python'"]
config.asXML('config') :
<config>
  <users>
    <ITEM>users</ITEM>
    <source_dir>
      <ITEM>source_dir</ITEM>
      <ITEM>'/home/karthik/Projects/python'</ITEM>
    </source_dir>
    <data_dir>
      <ITEM>data_dir</ITEM>
      <ITEM>'/home/karthik/Projects/data'</ITEM>
    </data_dir>
    <result_dir>
      <ITEM>result_dir</ITEM>
      <ITEM>'/home/karthik/Projects/Results'</ITEM>
    </result_dir>
    <param_file>
      <ITEM>param_file</ITEM>
      <ITEM>$result_dir/param_file</ITEM>
    </param_file>
    <res_file>
      <ITEM>res_file</ITEM>
      <ITEM>$result_dir/result_file</ITEM>
    </res_file>
    <comment>
      <ITEM>comment</ITEM>
      <ITEM>'this is a comment'</ITEM>
    </comment>
    <K>
      <ITEM>K</ITEM>
      <ITEM>8</ITEM>
    </K>
    <simulate_K>
      <ITEM>simulate_K</ITEM>
      <ITEM>0</ITEM>
    </simulate_K>
    <N>
      <ITEM>N</ITEM>
      <ITEM>4000</ITEM>
    </N>
    <mod_scheme>
      <ITEM>mod_scheme</ITEM>
      <ITEM>'QPSK'</ITEM>
    </mod_scheme>
    <Na>
      <ITEM>Na</ITEM>
      <ITEM>K+2</ITEM>
    </Na>
  </users>
</config>






From ville at spammers.com  Mon Oct 25 09:54:25 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 16:54:25 +0300
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-function
	o verloading.
References: <mailman.5414.1098701076.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns958D7ED7A1A87duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <du7llduq4xa.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Duncan" == Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> writes:

    Duncan> theProblem.Title = "Java affecting adoption of Python."

...

    Duncan> This is much clearer than wrapping your attributes up in
    Duncan> accessor and mutator functions and doesn't lose you
    Duncan> *anything*. If your code ever evolves to the point where
    Duncan> you need to intercept the attribute access or mutation
    Duncan> then you simply change the affected attributes into
    Duncan> properties, but there is no need to make them properties
    Duncan> until this happens.

I felt this is something worth highlighting - in Java you *need* to
implement accessors because you can't convert direct attribute access
to accessor methods if/when you are start to second-guess the
design. In Python (and some other languages) you don't need to do
that.

That's yet another "guilt" that must be washed away from aspiring
Pythonista's minds, just like while 1, if cond: break...

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 09:58:49 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:58:49 +0200
Subject: Python package anthologies
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>
	<1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<n5qdnS65dp2K2x_cRVn-1w@powergate.ca>
	<1gmfclt.1g61j8z1uatvgzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<B8udnU9P34qV1h_cRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1gmfdi1.9ccj14oq43dgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
   ...
> Hmm... this leads me to think that maybe what would be a good
> idea is a small set of "anthology" distributions of a number
> of related packages, allowing a "canned" installation of a
> bunch of useful stuff at the same time.

Sure.  That's a reasonable alternative to the "Sumo Distribution"
approach best typified by Enthought's huge (and I believe Windows-only)
excellent one for scientific work with Python.

> That idea, turned into something more concrete, might be
> enough to fill in the gap between the standard distribution
> and the hundreds of discrete little packages which are scattered
> around on myriad web sites.

Sure, it is one way.  Other approaches include sumo distributions, and
others yet, such as Macpython's package-manager, Activestate's somewhat
cpan-like arrangement, etc, etc.

The problem I can see with "sets of a dozen interrelated packages" is:
what happens to users who need two of them, when the two packages use
and include the same extension... in two different versions...


Alex


From cjankowski at hbr-inc.com  Tue Oct 19 10:37:36 2004
From: cjankowski at hbr-inc.com (Chris Jankowski)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 07:37:36 -0700
Subject: Pointer to Image
Message-ID: <a1301a8e.0410190637.74a091ad@posting.google.com>

Hi all,
I am still new to using Python, so bare with me.  I am trying to call
a DLL from my program to use some of it's functions.  The only
parameter is supposed to be a pointer to an image.  I have tried
several variations on passing this parameter to the DLL and I am not
having much luck.  This is going to call other functions later for
OCR, but I want to get a simple one working first.

Here is my code:  (Very basic)

from ctypes import *
import Image

myOcr = windll.LoadLibrary('ocrdll.dll') # my DLL

mySize = myOcr.GetImgBitmapSize ## load the function

im = Image.open('C:\\chris.tif') ## load the Image
print id(im)  ## for testing print address of im

##myFile = c_char_p(id(im))  # I have tried several variations of this

x = mySize(myFile)  ##  Actual call to the DLL Function
                    ##  documentation only one parameter passed
pointer to Image
                    ##  Must be DIB Image(Device Independent Bitmap)
                    ##  (could this be the problem?)
Thanks for the help.

Chris J.


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Fri Oct  8 16:19:22 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:19:22 -0400
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
Message-ID: <4166F64A.5080504@kzoo.edu>

I wrote a function to compare whether two strings are "similar" because 
I'm using python to make a small text adventure engine and I want to it 
to be responsive to slight mispellings, like "inevtory" and the like. To 
save time the first thing my function does is check if I'm comparing an 
empty vs. a non-empty string, because they are to be never considered 
similar. Right now I have to write out the check like this:

    if str1 and str2:
        if not str1 or not str2:
            return 0

Because python won't let me do str1 ^ str2. Why does this only work for 
numbers? Just treat empty strings as 0 and nonempty as 1.

Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for detecting if 
two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for strings shouldn't be 
supported. Am I missing something? Inparticular, I think it'd be cool to 
have "xor" as opposed to "^". The carrot would return the resulting 
value, while "xor" would act like and/or do and return the one that was 
true (if any).




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 04:31:52 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:31:52 +0200
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrncmcf1i.dku.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <1glc06l.1s6wzdn11sa54yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >     sentinel = []
> > 
> >  It's fine, but I would still suggest using the Canonical Pythonic Way To
> >  Make a Sentinel Object:
> > 
> >      sentinel = object()
> > 
> >  Since an immediate instance of type object has no possible use except as
> >  a unique, distinguishable placeholder, ``this thing here is a sentinel''.
> 
> Yes a good idiom which I didn't know (still learning) - thanks!

You're welcome.

> This only works in python >= 2.2 according to my tests.

Yes, 2.2 is when Python acquired the 'object' built-in.  If you need to
also support ancient versions of Python, it's often possible to do so by
clever initialization -- substituting your own coding if at startup you
find you're running under too-old versions.  You presumably already do
that, e.g., for True and False, staticmethod, &c -- in the 2.3->2.4
transition it makes sense to do it for sorted, reversed, set, ... -- for
this specific issue of using object() for a sentinel, for example:

try: object
except NameError: def object(): return []

plus the usual optional stick-into-builtins, are all you need in your
application's initialization phase.


> Its also half the speed and 4 times the typing
> 
>   $ /usr/lib/python2.3/timeit.py 'object()'
>   1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.674 usec per loop
>   $ /usr/lib/python2.3/timeit.py '[]'
>   1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.369 usec per loop
> 
> But who's counting ;-)

Nobody, I sure hope.  's=[]' is just four characters, while 'sentinel =
[]', the usage you suggested (with proper spacing and a decent name), is
13, and yet it's pretty obvious the clarity of the latter is well worth
the triple typing; and if going to 'sentinel = object()' makes it
clearer yet, the lesser move from 13 to 19 (an extra-typing factor of
less than 1.5) is similarly well justified.
And I think it's unlikely you'll need so many sentinels as to notice the
extra 300 nanoseconds or so to instantiate each of them...


Alex


From greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com  Thu Oct  7 14:53:58 2004
From: greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:53:58 -0500
Subject: Connecting to SQL-Server
Message-ID: <02fc01c4ac9f$01358a00$054b12ac@D18SYX41>

Hello-

I'm running Python 2.3 on a Windows XP box and am trying to get connected to
an MS SQL-Server.  I have found (seemingly) conflicting methods to connect
using the odbc module in the win32-all extensions.  I have seen both of the
following:

db = odbc.odbc('DSN/UID/PASSWORD)
and
db=odbc.odbc('DSN=dsn;UID=uid;PWD=password)

I can connect when I use my computer, but when I transfer the code to a
production box I am greeted with an error that the login is not associated
with a trusted connection.  So which, if either, of the above methods should
I use and what is the error about a trusted connection trying to tell me?

Thanks for your help!

Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 12 21:21:00 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:21:00 -0700
Subject: Some notes
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041012180134.0918.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> ignorant still, but it's also positive because I can still see details
> that later probably I'll start to ignore.

Or perhaps later you will understand why some of the things you stated
are not applicable.


> Some of the functions of IPython seem good and simple, and I think
> some of them can be integrated into the main Python line.

There is a standard way of doing this.  One must submit a PEP for
language changes, and usually for modules.


> There are lots of different ways to make GUIs for Python programs, I
> think that Gui4Cli (http://users.hol.gr/~dck/g4c/) is nice, and it can
> be interesting to see it more integrated with Python. At the moment
> there is only this interface, but it's not good:
> http://users.hol.gr/~dck/g4c/dll/python.htm

Python is, by accident, GUI ambiguous.  You can use whatever GUI you
want that has a proper wrapper.

Python has been shipping with tk for quite a while now.  If there were
going to be a change in toolkit, Guido has all but declared that
wxPython would be shipped with Python, not some Windows-only toolkit
that doesn't quite have critical mass.


> Is Python3000 going to come eventually? It will break a lot of
> compatibility, so it will be the right moment to change/fix other
> things too. Here are some ideas (probably there are errors, but I hope
> to learn from my mistakes):

Yeah, Py3k will eventually come, unless the world ends.

> - TABs can be accepted only inside comments.

In Py3k, tabs are not going to be allowed as indentation to Python code. 
Keeping them in strings and comments is a non-issue.


> - The optional static typing seems a quite nice thing (for compilers
> too, they can produce faster code. It can probably allow faster and
> smaller arrays, like those of numarray).

Asking for static typing in Python is a pretty big request.  It seems
from those responses to similar questions, the answer is simply "static
typing isn't coming to CPython any time soon, probably not even for Py3k".

Keep wishing, but unless you implement it, I wouldn't get my hopes up.


> - The functional IF seems interesting, like:
> if(cond, code1, code2)
> (Or maybe a different syntax, that allows elseif too.)

Many variants have been proposed over the years, but none have ever made
it in.

Don't get your hopes up.


> - Functions containing yield can be defined in a different way, like:
> generator name(params)
>     <code>
> This idea comes from David Mertz:
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pycon.html?n-l-9271

I don't see how that gains anything.  The existance of a yield defines a
generator, and that article only mentions that perhaps 'generator' would
have been better.  All of the discussion happened on another list, and
(from what I hear), Guido pronounced (before that article was ever
written), that a new name for 'def' didn't make sense.


> - "mod" can substitute the % operator. This gives cleaner (but a bit
> longer) code.

Don't get your hopes up.  There does not exist a 'logical modulo'
operation, where as there does exist a 'binary modulo' operation.  The
reason 'and' and '&', 'or' and '|' exist is because they have logical
and binary counterparts, with the ability to short-circuit execution
under certain circumstances.

A much better request would be for a logical xor, though it has the
unfortunate consequence of never being short-circuitable.


> - The string Formatting like %(#)03d can be good for C programs, but
> probably can be invented a much simpler and nicer syntax for a high
> level language like Python (does string.Template from 2.4 solve
> this?). (Python is "based" on C, but putting C syntax inside Python
> sometimes seems a bad thing to me.)

Read the PEP for Template to find out if it fixes it.  Generally, no
matter what kind of string formatting you do, someone is not going to
like it.  Me, I like the way things are done, but then again, sometimes
I like C.


> Maybe the : at the end of some blocks can be removed or it can become
> optional (but then the newline is probably necessary):

Don't get your hopes up.  Colons are a very important delimiter for
Python now, and removing them just makes the syntax more ambiguous for
both reading and for interpreting.


> In time, Python seems to become more similar to the Mathematica (and
> in IPython this is even explicit) ^_^

Becoming more like Mathematica is not something one should hope for.


 - Josiah

(I can't believe I am replying to someone with the email address
'bearophile')



From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 09:06:11 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 06:06:11 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <20041025224622.0B32.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5539.1098846893.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncnu70c.tiv.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410270506.1dda5efd@posting.google.com>

Sam Holden <sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message news:<slrncnu70c.tiv.sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>...
> > i never talked about *relying* on overflow errors to
> > ensure the correctness of code. it's only a mechanism
> > that catches bugs in some cases - & that's valuable.
> 
> That's not valuable at all. It encourages a "I won't bother doing bounds
> checking on my operations since if I stuff up the language *might* catch
> it if I get lucky and crash my program" style of programming that you
> seem fond of.
> 
> Better to do bounds checking that will *always* catch it.

I understand. Thank you.

-kartik


From malcolm at 55bank.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Oct 24 04:22:31 2004
From: malcolm at 55bank.freeserve.co.uk (Malcolm)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:22:31 +0100
Subject: OT: Interesting coding idea
References: <2tvup4F24iddjU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<9ckln0tm2ubr7t8hafe27p66kfileceabu@4ax.com>
	<2u0bd8F23g8afU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <clfo9n$shk$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>


"Bruno R. Dias" <bruno at octantis.com.br> wrote
>
> >>And what about a fictional computer, such as one that works on an
> >>entirely different way (such as a non-binary computer)?
>
> It would be *programmed* in a language, obviously. It's just that C is
> rather appropriate for that kind of stuff, It's one of my favorite
> languages, and It's a subject that should interest C programmers. The
> same goes for Python.
>
Just because a program could be implemented in C doesn't make it on-topic
for comp.lang.c. However "is C the the most appropriate language for this
program?" is probably topical.

There are plenty of emulators out there, an emulator is not an especially
difficult program to write, and it is often useful. For instance if you want
to play 80's vintage Spectrum games from the comfort of your PC it is
possible using emulation software and program dumps (it is illegal to sell
such dumps unless you own the copyright, it is OK to make a copy of a game
you own for personal use, taking a copy from a friend without payment is a
grey area).

An interesting project would be a Fibonnaci computer. Instead of using a
exponent-based system (binary, decimal, hex etc) you represent numbers as
Fibonnaci sequences. This has some interesting properties, for instance
there are never two consecutive 1s in a valid number.





From pythongnome at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 12 20:00:20 2004
From: pythongnome at hotmail.com (Lucas Raab)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:00:20 GMT
Subject: EVIL AMERICAN GOVT (aka FBI) is full of SADISTS and PERVERTS
References: <11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oe_ad.2602$SZ5.2249@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

You can't help but love these little messages.

"vicky" <vickyp679 at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0 at posting.google.com...
> SUMMARY:
>
> THREE YEARS of and continuing MENTAL TORTURE, TERRORISM, SADISM and
> BLATANT human rights violations by FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS.
>
> Please SAVE this post on your hard disks or email account and also
> bookmark it because the FBI sadists are gonna force the websites to
> remove this posting for good. I posted this column to pretty much all
> "active newsgroups" three weeks ago but the FBI "ARM TWISTED" and
> "FORCED" google management to "REMOVE 90% of them" from the USENET and
> violated my FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
>
> Undercover FBI agents will attack me, ridicule me and discredit me
> with fictitious userids in response to this post and I request all
> readers to completely IGNORE those MANIPULATIVE, LYING FBI perverts
> and sadists.
>
> Please forward and distribute this to as many senators, congressmen,
> journalists, editors, civil rights attorneys, civil rights activists,
> investigative reporters, radio talk show hosts,  managers, co-workers,
> family and friends and all Americans concerned with civil liberties.
>
> I am not a muslim, I don't have even a single muslim friend, I am not
> a member of any religious organization, I am not a drug smuggler, I do
> not belong to any crime mafia, I did not kill anybody, I am not a spy
> and I never ever worked for any government and not even "remotely
> connected" to any government agency whatsoever, I do not have any
> prior criminal record, I am a US citizen and have been living in US
> for a little more than 15 yrs and I graduated with a masters degree in
> computer science from a US university more than a decade ago. I am
> even willing to take "ANY NO.OF POLYGRAPH TESTS" to prove whatever I
> said is true and a fact, about my background.
>
> FBI has been MENTALLY TORTURING me with 24X7 surveillance for the last
> three years inside and outside my apartment with video surveillance
> devices and motion sensors around my apartment, my phone has been
> tapped, my web surfing is being monitored all the time for the last
> three years, my emails are being monitored, gps vehicle tracking
> devices and voice amplification devices have been placed in my car and
> undercover FBI agents have followed me to restaurants, grocery stores,
> malls, movie theatres, banks and even barber shops etc and forced me
> to live like an animal and a virtual prisoner for three years. FBI has
> interfered in my personal life for no reason and jeopardized my job
> opportunities. FBI is obsessed with me and has ruined, destroyed and
> wrecked my life for the last three years and destroyed my physical and
> mental health.
>
> The SADISTIC FBI agents are NOT charging me, NOT letting me find a
> job, NOT letting me have a normal life, NOT letting me have even an
> IOTA of PRIVACY and mentally TORTURING and TERRORIZING me with 24X7
> surveillance, making 2000 UNSOLICITED phone calls to my unlisted
> phone#s, entering my apartment ILLEGALLY and STEALING personal
> belongings when I am not home, watching me real time live with video
> surveillance devices installed in my bedroom, living room, kitchen and
> DISGUSTINGLY even in my rest room and humiliating and dehumanizing me
> and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights and constitutional right to
> privacy and ABUSING the "DRACONIAN" PATRIOT ACT.
>
> The PERVERTED FBI "ILLEGALLY" installed tens of audio and video
> surveillance devices in my apartment, watching me NAKED, REAL TIME
> LIVE 24X7 even in my rest room taking shower, psychoanalyzing each and
> every move, each and every word I said, each and every second of my
> life, each and every blink of my eyes and each and every comment I
> posted on the web.
>
> Is there a LIMIT to FBI Sadism and Perversion ??
>
> If you want to contact me, please send me email at
> vickyg456A at notyahoo.com by removing the letter "A" and the word "not"
> from the email id.
>
> I spoke to at least 200 attorneys in both Michigan and Georgia for
> legal help but only about two or three attorneys were willing to help
> me but asked me to show physical proof of either gps or video
> surveillance devices. I did a lot of research and found a couple of
> private investigators (who were ex-FBI agents) more importantly who
> are knowledgeable about the latest "counter surveillance technologies"
> but they also DECLINED to help me on ONE PRETEXT or the OTHER even
> though I was willing to pay for their services.
>
> I told these two very HIGHLY QUALIFIED and KNOWLEDGEABLE private
> investigators Niles (Eagle services 866-691-7985) and another PI,
> Charles Middlestadt (404-252-5322) of ISC Worldwide Inc in the Atlanta
> area who are capable of finding the gps vehicle tracking devices in my
> car, that I am NOT A MUSLIM and they have NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT ME
> and even offered them to go through my attorney and help me but still
> THEY DECLINED to help me OUT OF FEAR that I might be a muslim.
>
> And eventually I was forced to spend a $1000 as fees out of sheer
> desperation knowing fully well that the Private Investigator I hired
> has at best AVERAGE counter surveillance skills to sweep my car for
> gps vehicle tracking devices and he did a LOUSY JOB and found nothing,
> as I expected.
>
> One attorney in Michigan CHEATED me for a thousand dollars and didn't
> do diddly squat and another attorney made me spend a couple of
> thousand dollars more, again for nothing.
>
> Some attorneys I consulted told me in very CLEAR TERMS, that FBI
> agents LIE, MANIPULATE, CHEAT and are VERY UNETHICAL in their MEANS
> and METHODS. The attorneys also told me that in order for me to file a
> civil lawsuit against the FBI, I have to PROVE the existence of
> surveillance devices and also the harassment which will be quite a
> tall order for me to do without the help of willing attorneys and
> helpful private investigators and EVEN THEN the FBI sadists would have
> removed all those surveillance devices by the time the private
> investigators came to sweep my apartment for those devices after a
> couple of days since the FBI is listening to each and every goddamn
> word that came out of my mouth whether it be in my apartment or when I
> was speaking to these PI's and attorneys from pay phones or cell
> phones.
>
> You can investigate these undercover FBI agents yourself and find out
> the truth. Remember, some times vehicles are registered in parents or
> spouses names and also FBI uses fictitious front companies to employ
> their undercover agents.
>
> If any of you think, all these things are my paranoid delusions, I
> CHALLENGE you to send an email to undercover FBI agent Frank Spodek
> (sfrank9 at aol.com) OR call Kathleen Sue Taylor OR Maddelina Wahl OR
> Mediha Krijestorac or Janet Lorna Brown or the other FBI agents I
> listed at their phone numbers and confirm it with those FBI PERVERTED
> SADISTS themselves.
>
> Undercover FBI agents who followed me
> -------------------------------------
>
> BOGEY 27 (MI)     Registered to Maddelina C Wahl,  28087 Hickory Dr,
> Farmington.Hills MI 38331, ph: 248-324-1527, Caucasian Female, black
> car, Charter One bank, 3:00 pm, 12/20/03
>
> This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 30 yr old Caucasian
> Female to Charter One bank on W.12 Mile Road, Farmington Hills, MI in
> veh plate # BOGEY 27, ph:248-324-1527
>
> PPL 587  (MI)     Registered to Kathleen Sue Taylor, African American
> female, 29390 Bermuda Ln,Southfield, MI 48034, ph: 248-356-1946.
>
> This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 27yr old African
> American female in MI veh plate# PPL 587 in July 2002  in a CVS
> Pharmacy on W.12 Mile Rd, Southfield,  MI
>
> XRA 155 (MI)     Registered to Mediha Krijestorac, Black car, 30408
> Shiawasee Rd, Farmington MI 48336, ph:248-477-9161,  White Male,
> Restaurant, 9:00pm, 12/12/03
>
> This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 20-22 yr old Caucasian
> Male in veh plate # XRA 155 to a restaurant on Grand River Ave in
> Farmington Hills,  MI at 9:00 pm on 12/12/03.
>
> UFX 210 (MI)     Registered to Kevin Miller, White SUV,  5871 Seneca
> St, Detroit, 48213, July 2002, 313-571-1095 #disconnected.
>
> This undercover FBI agent followed me in the summer of 2002.
>
> 5915CR   (MI)    Registered to Kenneth Allen, Red pickup truck, 18440
> Alta Vista Dr, Southfield MI 48075 in Dec 2002.
>
> This FBI undercover agent followed me in a red pickup truck in an
> apartment complex was a 27-33 yr old Caucasian male in veh plate# 5915
> CR in Dec 2002.
>
> 0978 JD  (MI)   Registered to Janet Lorna Brown, White Chevy, 20978
> Delaware St, Southfield MI 48034 in 2002, ph# 248-350-2599
>
> This FBI agent followed me in a white chevy once on Telegraph road on
> 3/14/02 and on a different occasion on 8 Mile Rd on 4/4/02 when I went
> for an oil change.
>
> 8CK U33 (MI)    Registered to Doris Evelyn Person, 3611 S.Annabelle
> St, Detroit 48217, 313-388-5186
>
> The African American female undercover FBI agent who followed me in MI
> veh plate# 8CK U33 was about 20 yrs old and might be a daughter of the
> female owner of this car and this happened in early Fall of 2002.
>
> EBAY      Ebay Id: SpodekModek, sfrank9 at aol.com --> email Id of Frank
> Spodek - Undercover FBI Agent who monitored my Websurfing activities.
>
> You can do a quick investigative test by emailing to sfrank9 at aol.com
> and asking Frank if he is an undercover FBI agent and I am absolutely
> positive he WONT respond and DENY he is an FBI agent because then it
> will be a LIE. With this test you can conclude Frank Spodek is indeed
> an undercover FBI agent.
>
> EBAY            Ebay Id: cbsan,  cidneybetz at aol.com, email Id of
> Cidney Betz - Undercover FBI agent who monitored my websurfing
> activities in 2002.
>
> Possible old phone numbers of Cidney Betz: 407-370-3043 or
> 352-291-2112 in the year 2002.
>
> 351 FTK (GA)    Maroon Car, 7/28/04, 6:00 pm, 20ish Caucasian Male and
> Female, Metro Atlanta
>
> 131 YBP (GA)    35 yr old Caucasian Male, Silver colored car, 7/22/04,
> 10:45 pm, Hotel, Metro Atlanta
>
> APZ 7647 (GA)   35 yr old Caucasian Male, Truck, 5/25/04, 3:00pm,
> Ridgeview Hospital, Atlanta
>
> YUU 243 (GA)    Pickup truck, Caucasian male, 8/25/04, 4:40pm,
> Holcrombe Bridge Rd, Altanta
>
> AQG 2185 (GA)   27 yr old Caucasian Female, Red Cherokee, 5/21/04, 11
> AM, Pep Boys, Cobb Parkway
>
> WPS 578 (GA)    SUV, One Caucasian Male and one female, 3/8/04,
> 8:30pm, Apartment Complex
>
> Please allow three years plus or minus to the ages of the undercover
> FBI agents I mentioned here.
>
> 2/29/04        Undercover FBI agent with a fictitious name "Agent
> Johnson" and IP address 81.132.210.89 said on internet that they are
> using me as a training target and have got a bet on as to when I'll do
> something really stupid and also they are taking bets on what it will
> be in alt.astrology Usenet newsgroup on 2/29/04. This FBI agent from
> Michigan field office might have posted it anonymously and hence the
> IP address might be a fake one. Url for Agent Johnson's post follows.
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=c1u06b%24780%241%40titan.btinternet.com&rnum=19
>
> 3/21/04        Undercover FBI agent by some fictitious internet name
> "THOR" and email Id: funk_a_del_ic2000 at yahoo.com and IP address
> 24.94.125.55 in the Washington DC area monitored my web surfing
> activities and posted on rec.sport.cricket Usenet news group.
>
> I am absolutely confident all the above mentioned people are
> undercover FBI agents GUARANTEED. You can investigate them yourself
> and find out the truth.
>
> FBI who is supposed to catch terrorists are WASTING humongous amount
> of tax payers money to ruin, wreck and destroy ordinary peoples lives
> and are MORE INTERESTED and spent three years to tell me how SMART and
> INFINITELY POWERFUL they are compared to me.
>
> FBI has even been eavesdropping, monitoring and recording my
> conversations with attorneys from pay phones when I was looking to
> hire an attorney to get help with this FBIs harassment,
> dehumanization, humiliation and mental torture.
>
> FBI agents have been entering my apartment regularly and torturing me
> by doing whatever they want because they know I am taking medication
> that puts me to sleep and I won't wake up until the next morning until
> the drug effect goes away.
>
> FBI has forced Google or used some technology at their disposal to
> cancel some of my comments from getting posted on INTERNET newsgroups
> misc.legal, trial.misc.legal from a library in Farmington Hills, MI
> and denied and VIOLATED my right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH in 11/03 or
> 12/03.
>
> FBI has entered my unlisted phone#s in all marketing and fax databases
> and sent me faxes in the middle of the night. I received at least on
> the average two to three marketing calls and faxes everyday for 3
> years to my unlisted numbers totaling at least 2000 unsolicited calls
> in the last 3 years.
>
> FBI agents have terrorized me by calling my current unlisted phone#
> atleast 200 times in a month and a half in July and August 2004,
> intentionally asking for Roberto Fernandez (last name changed),
> knowing fully well that nobody by the name Roberto Fernandez lived in
> my apartment.
>
> I called undercover FBI agent, Kathleen Sue Taylor on 4/1/04 and told
> her I do not want to receive any HARASSING UNSOLICITED phone calls
> from the FBI and from next day onwards, the FBI had made my unlisted
> phone# appear on caller id of ordinary american people multiple # of
> times, where the owners of those phone#s listed below got upset and
> called me and left abusive messages in my answering machine.
>
> The owners of these phone numbers listed below called and asked me why
> I was calling them repeatedly, even though I DON'T KNOW who they are
> and I NEVER called them even once.
>   703-580-8992         4/2/04     Dale City, VA
>   540-309-1226         4/3/04     Roanoke VA
>   434-525-1448         4/3/04     Lynchburg, VA
>   757-404-1076         4/4/04     Harry Folsom left me an abusive
> message
>   703-820-6695         4/4/04     DC Suburb, VA
>   770-966-5236         4/4/04     Cooper P D, Woman left me an
> abusive message
>   757-483-0583         4/7/04     Norfolk, VA
>   540-463-7459         4/7/04     Lexington VA
>   770-253-6297         4/8/04     Hammond Stinson
>   703-541-0950         4/9/04     DC Suburb, VA
>
> FBI pretended to be me and made all these phone calls themselves from
> the FBI head office in Washington DC to those ordinary Americans and
> made my unlisted phone# appear on their phone caller ids, as if I am
> calling them.
>
> Please speak to, ADVISE and ENCOURAGE these people above to file
> lawsuits against the US government and FBI for violating their privacy
> and for phone harassment.
>
> Once a Caucasian male FBI agent in a Comcast van threatened to ram
> into my car from behind and came within half an inch of hitting me
> from behind even though there was no traffic altercation between us on
> a city street in Southfield in Feb 2002.
>
> Two FBI agents once shouted at me and abused me verbally in a Sports
> Authority store parking lot approximately around Feb 2002 in Livonia,
> MI.
>
> FBI ILLEGALLY stole passwords of all my email and internet accounts
> with the help of bugs installed on my computer.
>
> FBI agents have followed me even when I went to see a doctor. There
> was one Caucasian FBI agent in a white truck with GA license plate APZ
> 7647 on 5/24/04, waiting for me in a truck in the hospital parking lot
> listening to the conversation I was having with the doctor using voice
> amplification devices.
>
> I am currently living in a two bedroom apartment  sharing it with
> another person and the FBI sadists made anonymous calls to the
> apartment management office with fictitious complaints and tried to
> get me evicted from the apartment in July 2004.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home in May
> 2004, stole a "yellow highlighter" and after I moved to a different
> Atlanta suburbs a month later entered my apartment again when I was
> not home and placed the "yellow highlighter" on the carpet in the
> middle of my bedroom by the time I came back from watching Fahrenheit
> 9/11 movie on 6/27/04. The FBI knew that I went to watch Fahrenheit
> 9/11 movie on 6/27/04 because they were watching me looking for
> directions and movie times on the internet and also with the help of
> gps vehicle tracking devices in my car.
>
> I spoke to an attorney from a pay phone on 6/24/04 and during the
> conversation I asked the attorney if we can get a court order to force
> the Internet Service Provider to reveal if my internet web surfing is
> being monitored by the FBI and lo and behold my internet account
> MYSTERIOUSLY DISAPPEARED from the ISP computers on 6/25/04. On inquiry
> my ISP told me somebody called and cancelled my internet account the
> previous day, which I never did.
>
> I rented a car on 7/14/04, bought a cell phone and stayed in a hotel
> that night and by next morning 7/15/04, the FBI has figured out where
> I was staying and wire tapped my cell phone and tracked me by placing
> gps vehicle tracking devices even in the rental car.
>
> FBI agents ILLGEALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
> 7/16/04 and LOCKED the bathroom door from inside, by the time I came
> back in the evening.
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home between
> 7/15/04 and 7/18/04 and logged on to my computer and REMOVED a stock
> list from my Yahoo account.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
> 7/18/04 in the morning and turned the Air Conditioner "ON"
> intentionally by the time I came back to TORTURE me.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 7/18/04 when I was not
> home and placed a razor blade and a nickel (which they STOLE from my
> apartment in Marietta in May 2004) and put it in a plastic bag to
> TAUNT ME  to say WHAT CAN YOU DO ?
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment in the early hours of
> 7/22/04 (while I was still sleeping in bed) and opened a tote bag I
> kept next to the pillow and unzipped a small bag (zip which I closed
> the previous night) inside, just to  TERRORIZE ME as if to say, we can
> and will do anything to you and you can't do anything to us because we
> FBI are GODS.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
> 7/22/04 during the day time and placed the TV remote this time hanging
> on the edge of the bed to TERRORIZE me that they entered my apartment.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment sometimes when I was not
> home, pretending to be Wall Street Journal delivery personnel and
> delivered sometimes MUTIPLE copies of the paper on the same day and
> also sometimes delivered multiple Chinese restaurant take out
> brochures.
>
> My room mate goes to work around 6 AM and on the night of 7/23/04 I
> pasted a 8.5 X 11 page note on the inside of the apartment entrance
> door for my room mate to wake me up when he leaves so I can bolt the
> hotel lock from inside and go back to sleep. My room mate woke me up
> like I requested and I bolted the hotel lock from inside of my
> apartment and went back to sleep at 6 AM on the morning of 7/24/04.
> The sadistic FBI agents STILL ENTERED my second floor apartment while
> I was asleep between 6:00 AM and 10:00 AM on 7/24/04 and REMOVED the
> 8.5X11 inch page pasted note on the inside of entrance door and LEFT
> IT on the ENTERTAINMENT CENTER in the living room just to TORTURE ME
> mentally and TERRORIZE me &#8220;We entered your apartment even when
> you locked the hotel lock bolt and did this, but what can you do
> ?&#8221;
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home in the
> evening on 7/24/04 and again opened the tote bag and unzipped a small
> bag which is inside the tote bag and also STOLE a one time use Kodak
> camera from my bedroom which I bought on 7/23/04 in Wal Mart.
>
> FBI agents have REGULARLY entered my apartment ILLEGALLY with laptops
> when I was not home and copied information from my computer and floppy
> disks and messed them up.
>
> FBI agents have destroyed my livelihood by assasinating my character
> with potential employers by making anonymous calls to them when I sent
> resumes since FBI is privy to all the email addresses and phone
> numbers of the recruiters and potential employers. I do NOT think this
> is an EXCEPTION and imagine how many ordinary Americans have been
> suffering this FBI SADISM for years without knowing it.
>
> Sadistic FBI agents called me at least 30 times repeatedly in the
> space of an hour and a half between 7:00 and 8:30 pm on 7/27/04 and
> asked for Roberto Fernandez knowing fully well that nobody by that
> name lived in my apartment and infact said "You are so funny" and made
> WEIRD SOUNDS like aye, uye, ick, ihe etc while watching me real time
> live all the time with the video surveillance devices installed in the
> ceiling of my bedroom when I answered the phone.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on the night of 8/1/04 when
> I was asleep and stole prepaid calling card pin numbers from my
> trouser pockets. One of the prepaid calling cards in my trouser pocket
> was called "I Conexion" and the FBI next day called me on 8/2/04 and
> made the number 770-242-8775 with caller name "Internet Conexion"
> appear on my caller id to TERRORIZE me, that they entered my apartment
> the previous night and stole the prepaid calling numbers from my
> trouser pocket. The phone# above is NOT an FBI# but some other
> company.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was asleep on 8/2/04
> night even though the hotel lock was  bolted from inside, and placed
> the tv remote face down on the end table of my bedroom, folded a
> prepaid calling card in my trouser pocket and formed a crease on the
> card, removed a library map from the file folder (which was inside a
> tote bag) and placed it outside the file folder and unzipped the back
> pocket of the tote bag half way down and left it there to torture me.
>
> FBI agents have been alerting the security departments of WalMart,
> Best Buy, JC Penney stores etc with fictitious complaints when I went
> there for shopping, so the security cameras in those stores are
> constantly focused on me and watching me while I was in those stores.
>
> I rented a car on 8/5/04 and stayed in a hotel to get some privacy and
> the sadistic FBI agents still tracked me down that night and left the
> rental car doors unlocked by next morning on 8/6/04.
>
> I changed the car rented the previous day on 8/6/04 and traveled a
> couple of hours on a highway, took an exit, parked my car in a strip
> mall parking lot and spent about 20 minutes in a retail store and by
> the time I got back to the car, FBI agents followed me and put two
> quarters on a plastic bag containing donuts in the back seat of the
> car just to taunt and terrorize me they are still following me even
> when I rented a car and drove out of the city.
>
> To protect myself from these SADISTIC FBI agents entering into my
> apartment and stealing things when I am asleep, I locked my bedroom
> door from the inside and put a small heavy box and a 19 inch TV on top
> of the box against the bed room door on the night of 8/7/04 so if the
> FBI agents try to open my bedroom door, the TV will fall off the box
> at the slightest movement of the door, make a big sound and wake me
> up. On the morning of 8/8/04 around 9:00 AM I woke up to a giant
> thudding sound of the TV falling on the floor from the box and FBI
> agents speeding away by the time I realized what happened. FBI agents
> entered my apartment and opened my locked bedroom and pushed the door
> at 9:00 AM so hard, they pushed the box a good two feet away from the
> door. The FBI SADISTS are even willing to break my 19 inch TV to
> TORTURE and TERRORIZE me.
>
> FBI agents STOLE a pilot pen pack (which I bought from CVS Pharmacy on
> 8/8/04) from my car on the night of 8/8/04 and entered my apartment on
> 8/9/04 when I was not home from 11 AM - 12 noon and placed the pilot
> pen pack under a chair on the carpet in the living room to torture me.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 8/10/04 between 1:00pm
> and 1:15 pm (just 15 min) when I went to Publix and turned the TV "On"
> in my bedroom by the time I came back to mentally torture me.
>
> SADISTIC FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was taking
> shower on 8/12/04 around 1:00pm and removed a shaving set scissors
> from the tote bag pocket in my bedroom and placed it on the iron board
> in my bedroom. FBI was able to execute this operation because they
> were watching me taking shower "real time live" with video devices
> installed in my "bathroom".
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment even when the hotel lock was
> bolted from inside in the early hours of 8/16/04 while I was asleep
> and removed the middle row donuts in a 12 pack krispy kreme donut box
> in the refrigerator and placed them in the empty left row and placed
> the concord grape jelly bottle horizontally in the refrigerator and
> unplugged the tv cable from the cable outlet in my bedroom to TORTURE
> me that they are still entering my apartment anytime they want at
> their will.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was asleep in the
> early hours of 8/20/04 even when I put a coffee  table against the
> apartment entrance door and a small heavy box and a 19in TV against my
> bedroom door from the inside and searched the locked tote bag and
> unzipped the back pocket of the tote bag half way down and left it
> there to TERRORIZE ME that they are still entering my apartment no
> matter what precautions I take.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 8/22/04 around 7:30pm
> while I was taking a nap and turned the Air Conditioner "ON" to TAUNT
> me that they were entering my apartment EVEN WHEN I WAS still in my
> apartment.
>
> FBI agents stole a Gillette disposable razor on the night of 8/25/04
> from my duffel bag and placed it between the drivers seat and driver
> side door near the trunk opening lever of my car.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY opened the rental car I rented, in a hotel
> premises on the night of 8/27/04 and removed the cup holder and placed
> it infront of the parking brake of the car to HARASS ME that they are
> still following me even when I rented a car and stayed in a hotel.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY even tapped MetroPCS cell phone numbers
> instantaneously as soon as I bought them on the same day.
>
> SADISTIC FBI agents AMUSED themselves by turning my bedroom table lamp
> in my bedroom, ON and OFF by using remote control devices, sometimes
> while I was browsing the web.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY CHANGED three passwords (even though I used
> Kinkos to keep my PASSWORDS PRIVATE) of my three email ids that I was
> using to send this document to investigative reporters between 8/26/04
> and 8/28/04 to "PREVENT ME" from EXPOSING their SADISM, PERVERSION,
> TERRORISM and MENTAL TORTURE, by either ILLEGALLY installing key
> logging software on kinkos computers or by some other ILLEGAL MEANS
> unknown to me. So I created brand new email ids and sent this document
> and god knows when the SADISTIC FBI will change the passwords of my
> NEW email ids.
>
> FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered the hotel rooms even when locked from
> inside where I stayed in August and September and installed video
> surveillance devices and moved things around from the tote bag&#8217;s
> zipped side pocket into the tote bag to TERRORIZE me that they will
> INVADE my privacy and MENTALLY TORTURE me even when I slept in hotel
> rooms.
>
> To escape this FBI sadism, I went and slept in an acquaintance's
> apartment in the first week of September 2004 and the SADISTIC FBI
> agents still came and entered that apartment, installed video
> surveillance devices in the acquaintance's apartment and drew a curvy
> line with a knife on the black colored apartment door of the
> acquaintance to TERRORIZE me.
>
> Sometimes when I spoke to my roommate in non-English language, the
> psycho-analysis OBSESSED SADISTIC FBI agents called me on the phone
> immediately and said "komo-isthaaaa" in a SARCASTIC way and asked for
> Roberto Fernandez knowing fully well that nobody by that name lived in
> my apartment.
>
> Sadistic FBI agents "reacted" to EACH and EVERY word that came out of
> my mouth for the last three years by making 2000 UNSOLICITED HARASSING
> phone calls at my unlisted private phone numbers.
>
> American "democracy" and "legal system" are a big friggin JOKE and I
> ask all Americans to take a deep breadth and THINK for a minute, WHY
> DO I HAVE to PROVE to the US Government that they are MENTALLY
> TORTURING and TERRORIZING me 24X7 with surveillance devices, violating
> all my human rights and ILLEGALLY entering my apartment and moving
> around and stealing things when it is the "US GOVERNMENT aka FBI
> itself" that is doing it ?
>
> Is this the type of DEMOCRACY, the EVIL American government wants to
> SPREAD across the world ???
>
> To all of you who are gonna advise me to wear tinfoil or take drugs
> for schizophrenic paranoia, the SADISTIC FBI wants all of you to think
> exactly that way so they can CONTINUE to carry on their PERVERSE
> SADISM on ordinary american citizens and MISDIRECT and PROGRAM all of
> the 290 mil american brains to treat the EVIL, SADISTIC, PERVERTED and
> DICTATORIAL FBI like Gods. 




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 11 11:04:19 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:04:19 +0200
Subject: define 'in' operator on lists
References: <ckdl7u$m08$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<Xns957F72D5C6476duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<ckdvb6$82t$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<cke3r1$su3$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cke580$la3$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <cke7d1$d4$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Michael Hoffman wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
>> Michael Hoffman wrote:
>>>It's probably a good idea not to shadow the long built-in.
>> 
>> Relax. It's only shadowed inside a function that doesn't use the builtin
>> anyway.
> 
> I can see that, but I was thinking mainly in terms of avoiding warnings
> and problems if the Python developers eventually try to optimize
> references to the builtins :)

I can see how assigning to a global can cause trouble here, but a local
should be easy to resolve at compile time as 'not the builtin' and
therefore not hinder optimization.

Peter




From olepar at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 12:04:14 2004
From: olepar at gmail.com (Oleg Paraschenko)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 09:04:14 -0700
Subject: ann: Pysch, Scheme runtime environment in Python
Message-ID: <1e015c2a.0410070804.6e84016d@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I'd like to announce addition to the list of Scheme
interpreters written in the Python language.

Pysch:
http://pysch.sourceforge.net/

I wrote Pysch for my own research goals, but I think
that it may be useful for general public.

Pysch relies on Bigloo to preprocess a source code of
Scheme programs (expand macros) and to save the result
as XML. Pysch interprets only the refined XML.

Pysch supports only a subset of the Scheme functions
library. Anyway, the subset is big enough to run
SXPath and SXSLT code.

Regards, Oleg


From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Mon Oct 25 11:04:30 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 15:04:30 GMT
Subject: 2 questions about scope
Message-ID: <slrncnq5fr.dam.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

I am relatively new to python, but i know some other languages, such as C++,
fairly well.
After reading up a little bit in the reference manual, section 4.1,
and searching this NG, i still have 2 questions about python's scoping
rules.

1. Exactly what are the major differences between python's and C++ scoping
   rules?

2. Why is it that 'while', 'for', etc., don't introduce a new block?
   (so that variables bound inside those blocks would be local to those
   blocks only?)

I will be most grateful for all insights or pointers to literature.

Best regards,
Gabriel.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| We act as though comfort and luxury                                     |
| were the chief requirements of life,                                    |
| when all that we need to make us happy                                  |
| is something to be enthusiastic about.              (Einstein)          |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From golux at comcast.net  Sun Oct 24 06:44:48 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 06:44:48 -0400
Subject: UML tool for Python
In-Reply-To: <417b7195$0$764$3a628fcd@reader10.nntp.hccnet.nl>
References: <417b7195$0$764$3a628fcd@reader10.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <417B87A0.8000105@comcast.net>

Andre Meyer wrote:
> Hy Pythoneers
> 
> Is there a UML tool that generates Python code? Maybe even 
> reverse-engineer the design from code?
> 
> Ideally it would integrate with Eclipse and PyDev. I have found ArgoUML 
> to be quite nice, but it lacks both of these features that I have 
> already suggested as new features. I doubt, however, that they will do 
> this given the fact that Eclipse has its own tool framework.

If you're open to COTS, Object Domain can both forward- and
reverse-engineer Python code (it is written in Java).  I've
used it successfully for relatively simple code, and it seems
to work well and be a reasonably well-designed tool.
http://www.objectdomain.com

I don't know of any other UML tool that has those features.

Also, amongst its features:
"Full Python source code for documentation and glossary
generation is included allowing customization and extension."
I haven't experimented with that, though.

Steve


From vjshield-widgets at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  3 05:15:22 2004
From: vjshield-widgets at yahoo.com (vjshield-widgets at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 02:15:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: limitations of current logging package
Message-ID: <20041003091522.93086.qmail@web41312.mail.yahoo.com>

Couple of questions/comments:

1. I found easylog pretty useful and easy to use.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/easylog/

But it was pretty slow and added a significant amount
of overhead to my application. I have long running
processes in my application. 

2. I then used the following (please see attached
code) to handle logging in my application. I read the
logging properties from a ZConfig file. I moved part
of the application to mod_python, and now my log
entres go to the apache log file. How can I force log
messages generated in my application go to my log
files?

class LoggingBase(object):
    def __init__(self, config):
        if (config.logconfig.logging):
            format          = config.logconfig.format
            dateformat      =
config.logconfig.dateformat
            level           = config.logconfig.level
            loggingdir      =
config.logconfig.loggingdir
            loggingfilepath =
loggingdir+config.logconfig.loggingfile
            formatter       =
logging.Formatter(format, dateformat)
            handler         =
logging.FileHandler(loggingfilepath)
            handler.setFormatter(formatter)
            log = logging.getLogger("")
            log.setLevel(LogLevel().convert(level))
            log.addHandler(handler)
            log.info("logging initialized; and turned
on. Logs will be created in (%s)" % loggingfilepath)
        else:
            log = logging.getLogger("")
            log.handlers = []
            log.info("logging initialized; and turned
off")
        self.logger = logging.getLogger("")
        self.logger.info("logging initialized")


class LogLevel:
    def convert(self, value):
          _levels = {
              "fatal": 50,
              "error": 40,
              "warn": 30,
              "info": 20,
              "debug": 10,
              "all": 0,
              }

          s = str(value).lower()
          if _levels.has_key(s):
              return _levels[s]
          else:
              v = int(s)
              if not (0 <= v <= 50):
                  raise ValueError("log level not in
range: " + `v`)
              return v


From abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Wed Oct 13 07:05:51 2004
From: abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Ajay)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:05:51 +1000
Subject: locks
Message-ID: <1097665551.416d0c0f7bef5@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>

hi!

what would happen if i try to access a variable locked by another thread? i
am not trying to obtain a lock on it, just trying to access it.

cheers





----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From adurdin at gmail.com  Sun Oct 24 23:10:40 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:10:40 +1100
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <KtGdnQJKpLvjruHcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
	<QPmdndr7xOOG-efcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<slrncnntlt.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<KtGdnQJKpLvjruHcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a041024201060690e05@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:58:06 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> but this is the first time I've heard it suggested that even
> the DOS "APIs" (I use the term loosely... the interrupt routines
> barely qualify for that title :-) ) would allow forward slashes
> as the Windows APIs (always?) have.
> 
> Does anyone have a reference for that?

Googling coincidentally brings up a c.l.py/python-list reference on
the first page, so that thread might be a good starting point:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-September/185211.html


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Oct  5 10:40:54 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 14:40:54 GMT
Subject: How can I make an existing object read-only?
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Xns95799F651665Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote:
> 
>> Maybe I'm way off track here, but I want to do something like this:
>> 
>> Say I have an object that's initialized with a bunch of attributes.
>> I want to pass the object to a piece of code that is not allowed
>> to add/delete/set attributes on this object.
>> When control returns, the code is again allowed to make changes
>> to the object.
> 
> Instead of passing the bare object, pass it wrapped into something like:
> 
<snip>

An alternative is just to pass a copy of the object. That way the recipient 
can do what they like with it, but the calling code won't see any changes.


From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Fri Oct 22 05:18:18 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:18:18 +0200
Subject: Parsing Python code with a Python Program
References: <U0aWc.46940$fz2.5801@edtnps89>
	<m33c2dkhuk.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4178e0c1$0$772$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Well you can also generate code into a specific file name and then import
the file and execute the generated code by reference to file.function...

goodluck
Ivo

"Michael Hudson" <mwh at python.net> wrote in message
news:m33c2dkhuk.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk...
> pgw <a6c21487 at telus.net> writes:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I would like to pass strings to a Python
> > application and have them executed as though
> > they were lines of code.
> >
> > Is 'exec()' the function that I am looking for
> > and/or is there an example of this somewhere?
>
> Well, it's a statement, not a function, but yes, that's what you're
> looking for.
>
> Cheers,
> mwh
>
> -- 
>   Well, you pretty much need Microsoft stuff to get misbehaviours
>   bad enough to actually tear the time-space continuum.  Luckily
>   for you, MS Internet Explorer is available for Solaris.
>                               -- Calle Dybedahl, alt.sysadmin.recovery




From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 29 15:35:25 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:35:25 -0700
Subject: Linksys Router & Python
In-Reply-To: <20041029112922.0BD9.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <cltjkt$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<20041029112922.0BD9.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <1099078525.7272.37.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 11:31 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:

> Some linksys routers offer support for dynamic hostnames via no-ip.org
> or dyndns.org.  That is, they connect to the dynamic dns server, tell it
> "hey, I'm now ip address ...", and within about 5-10 minutes, the rest
> of the world knows it.

There's also a plethora of scripts (several of them in Python) that do
the equivalent.  dyndns.org has a listing of many of them.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Tue Oct 26 07:51:51 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:51:51 +0200
Subject: python file versioning
References: <940ee3e8.0410250506.1d679430@posting.google.com>
	<cliv0l$ah6$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5425.1098714195.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clj363$acl$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410251912.3baaaaf3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <clldon$a78$03$1@news.t-online.com>

kartik wrote:
> that's a quite a bit of work. i'm talking about automating this

The whole task of having one codebase support several languange versions is
tedious -  i strongly doubt that these few lines of code are the hard part.

And if you want more  automation, you can also use input-hooks. The could be
used to import a module version-dependend by looking for a name convention.
There has been discussions on loading modules over the net recently, I'm
sure google might help you here.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com  Thu Oct  7 17:05:38 2004
From: greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:05:38 -0500
Subject: Connecting to SQL-Server
Message-ID: <032501c4acb1$65dae650$054b12ac@D18SYX41>

Greg Salutes Robert-

Robert nailed it!  Don't ask why, just put the DSN name/value pair in twice
and it works like a champ!


Robert Brewer Writes:

I use "DSN=RE7_1;UID=mcontrol;PWD=*****;DSN=RE7_1;" Yes, the DSN is
listed twice. Don't ask me why this works; it just does. ;) I've found
that somehow, the first k/v pair gets discarded from these connection
strings.




From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Fri Oct 15 18:40:01 2004
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:40:01 +0200
Subject: Please help a windows user get started with python/glade and an
	IDE.
References: <ckouc4$7fa$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20041015224001.39DC.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

Al Dykes wrote:

> 
> I'm looking for info on programming with glade on python, and maybe
> some sample code to hack. I've got python installed, but need a howto
> for glade and google doesn't help me.
> 
> Any suggestions ?

Go to www.pygtk.org. You will find faq, tutorials and complete reference
there.

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl

I believe in dragons, good men, and other fantasy creatures.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 16 06:17:32 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:17:32 +0200
Subject: from dict to member vars...?
References: <mailman.4962.1097776621.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckmh17$29gi$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <1glps1v.2obuqh1tcb45bN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

George Yoshida <ml at dynkin.com> wrote:

> Christopher J. Bottaro wrote:
> 
> > Lets say I have a class instance with the following member vars:  var1, x,
> > size.  Now lets say I have dict with the following keys:  var1, x, size.
> > Is there an easy way to *automatically* assign all the values in the dict
> > to corresponding (member) vars of the same name as the dict keys?
> > 
> > Thanks for the help.
> 
> If class is a new style class, you can do it this way:
> 
> instance.__dict__.update(some_dictionary)

You can do this for instances of either classic and newstyle classes,
_except_ newstyle classes which define __slots__ ...


Alex


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 20 08:27:53 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 05:27:53 -0700
Subject: form gives error when user submit "'" (single quote) in the form
In-Reply-To: <30e26235.0410192324.39454f73@posting.google.com>
References: <30e26235.0410192324.39454f73@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1098275273.25386.89.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-20 at 00:24 -0700, Sheetal wrote:

> I have a text area form element in my HTML form. When a user enters
> the "'" in the form the form throws an error when i use the value to
> enter in the database.

You need to either quote the data using whatever quote function the
database module you're using (you didn't say) provides (psycopg, for
example, provides the QuotedString function), or better, just let the
cursor.execute() method do it for you:

cursor.execute("INSERT INTO foo (bar) VALUES (%s)", (input,))

Incidentally, you should *always* make sure data is quoted before going
into the database.  Especially user-supplied data.  You are flirting
with disaster inserting unquoted data directly from the web.  Consider
the following:

input = "'); DROP TABLE foo; --"
cursor.execute("INSERT INTO foo (bar) VALUES ('%s')" % (input,))

It's also possible to bypass username/password checks using similar
techniques.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Fri Oct 29 12:19:58 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:19:58 +0200
Subject: Interface of the set classes
In-Reply-To: <1gmfg7o.a3ycdbrc571eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <41824654$0$1779$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<1gmfcnn.1kc0foj1j6zq3hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4182518e$0$5916$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<1gmfg7o.a3ycdbrc571eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41826d85$0$17459$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Ok, I'll try to answer and better explain what I want to understand.

Alex Martelli a ?crit :
> Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> wrote:
>    ...
> 
> Nope -- to use std::set<T>, you need to be able to define a < comparator
> that obeys the required semantic rules (either as an operator< on T, or
> separately in various possible ways); to use std::vector<T>, you don't.
> So, you cannot "switch freely" -- there are constraints.

Right ... but take hash_set and you have exactly the same kind of "set". 
In my case, I already had the '<' operator ... so it wasn't a problem. 
Then, you'll argue that you need to be hashable. True, but as I said (I 
don't mean here I was clear about that :o) ), the choice of the 
container usually depend on the data set.

> 
> That's because a std::set<...> is based on ordering (a Python's set is
> based on hashing, so it imposes different constraints -- namely, that
> the items be hashable, rather than having them be comparable).
> 
> Moreover, the set of valid operations on a std::vector<T>, call it V, is
> extremely different from the set of valid operations on an std::set<T>,
> call it S.  You can write V[3], but you can't write S[3], for example.
> Here, too, your assertion that "you can switch freely" is utterly
> baffling.

Yes, that's why I needed __getitem__ only because some things cannot be 
done (in Python 2.3) without.

> 
> 
>>I don't know why this is different in Python ! 
> 
> 
> It's not: neither in Python nor in C++ can you switch freely.

True, but in part ^_^ In C++, you can easyly design algorithm working 
with whatever sequence you have. But for that you'll have to use 
templates, iterators, probably tags, and on. But it's possible ... I 
don't see a way to do it in Python ... and that's my whole point.

> 
> 
>>Using "add" instead of "append" and "update" instead of "extend" does
>>not makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> Try, in C++'s example above mentioned, calling S.push_back(...), then...
> does the inability to use *THAT* make sense to you?  It sure does to
> _me_: V has an order based on insertion, so "pushing a new item at the
> back" makes sense (though Python's 'append' terminology is clearer).  S
> doesn't (no order in Python, order based on item values in C++), so it
> makes no sense to even think of "pushing onto the back" (or equivalently
> "appending").  Basically, the commonality between S and V is: you can
> loop on either (net of order &c issues).  And that holds in C++ as well
> as in Python.

Yes, but use insert_iterator and you can insert with both vector and set 
with the same syntax ... even if, obviously, the position you gave for 
set will be ignored. So :

   inserter(result, result.end()) = 3;

will insert 3 into result, at the end if result is "ordered" (as the 
list in python), or where it has to be for "sorted" or "unordered" 
containers. Genericity in C++ comes from template functions most of the 
time.

> 
> 
>>It's even worse because Python rely more on 
>>interface than in inheritence ... so making classes similar helps a lot
>>reusability.
> 
> 
> Not when the semantics are too different, as in the case of S and V.

Ok, that's something I don't agree ... for me there is a common semantic 
between S and V which is "storing values in a linear container". After 
that, you can put the properties you need in that container, but if I 
need to write an algorithm whose only assumption is "a linear container" 
I want to be able to use whatever linear container I have ... and I 
don't want to reimplement it for each.

> 
> 
>>>>Then, why can't you at all access sets element by position ? As Python
>>>>iterator are so poor (mainly, you cannot copy them ...) you have things
>>>
>>>That's what itertools.tee is for (in Python 2.4).
>>
>>Oky, thanks ^_^ So I should not need the __getitem__ anymore in sets.
> 
> 
> Well, you surely didn't get operator[] on C++'s std::set<...>s, that's
> for sure...

Well, no ... but it's not needed ^_^ And if I really need it you have 
the "advance" template function that do the __getitem__ stuff in the 
most efficient way, whatever your _linear_ container is.

> 
> 
>>>It would be false (in 2.4) -- set is a builtin type, side by side with
>>>list and dict, not relying on either of them.
>>
>>Yes, I know it will become a built-ins type ! But that does not explain
> 
> 
> It is one now -- just download 2.4.
> 
> 
>>this interface incompatible with lists. I would expect maximum 
>>compatibility to be able to exchange the types. Even compatibility 
>>between dictionnary and list is usefull ... because at some point you
>>can consider a dictionnary as a list of tuples. And then, too bad you
>>cannot because of simple design decisions.
> 
> 
> You make claims, above, about the container templates in C++'s standard
> library, that leave me in doubt.  The very fact that you make strong
> assertions without even hedging them in any way appears to indicate you
> are experienced with those templates and familiar with them -- yet what
> you say is false, appearing to indicate you aren't.  So, I don't know if
> I can take for granted all the rich conceptual framework of generic
> programming, and just point to the fact that the interface differences
> between Python's sequences, mappings and sets reflect exactly their
> conceptual semantic differences -- but then, that should be prima facie
> obvious!; or, do I need to try to forget the fact that you ever
> mentioned C++, and try to teach and explain both the conceptual
> underpinnings and the practical implications of generic programming (or
> more generally signature-based polymorphism) in purely Pythonic terms.

So I hope I made my point clearer this time ^_^ I used Python for a bit 
less than 2 years now (so that's not much) and C++ for 5 years with big 
projects in C++ (so that's more). So I'm no reusability specialist, but 
I used a lot the Boost library, where I learned a lot about reusability 
in C++. What I read about Python reusability was based on 
signature-based polymorphism as you call it. But then, it fails with 
lists, sets and dictionnary. And I don't really see any other way to do 
that (but to add methods to the sets ... and I don't want to do so).

> 
> You can probably clarify your background, and therefore which approach
> would help you most, more effectively, than I can just "stab in the
> dark" at it.  Do you know generic programming, and the offerings in
> C++'s standard library, solidly and in-depth?  If so, do you feel that
> C++'s standard library offers you the right amount of polymorphism among
> vectors, sets and maps, while you perceive a lesser amount among
> Python's lists, sets and dicts, and in what aspects precisely?  Whether
> this is the case, or not, can you present a simplified problem where you
> feel there isn't enough polymorphism for your purposes?  I may perhaps
> be able to offer help in any case, both practical and theoretical, but
> there is such a huge gulf among the various possibilities here that I
> think it's probably better for you to explain exactly where you come
> from and what you're after, first -- a theoretical background to help
> you understand the rationale behind the choices, a practical approach to
> use the best solutions for specific problems, etc, etc...!

Ok, so how do you write an algorithm on a container without specifying 
which, knowing that you cannot use the iterators, neither the signature 
of the class, nor the derivation ?

That was all the methods I imagined for Python's genericity. But none of 
them work when you see the base containers.

> 
> 
> 
>>No, what I want is not a new container type. I just want to be able to
>>change the container I use without changing all my codes ! It's too 
> 
> 
> It depends on what operations you're doing on that container, of course.
> 
> 
>>expensive. At the end, I finish using sets and hashsets from the STL 
>>exported to Python as sequences. The efficiency is the same and it just
>>works great :) I just feel bad not using the "standard" sets class ...
> 
> 
> But -- there IS no operator[] in the C++ standard library's sets!  And
> hashset (spelled with an underscore, I believe) is indeed a SGI
> extension (so, in STL stricto sensu), but it's not in the C++ standard,
> and AFAIK doesn't support indexing either...

As I said higher in this mail, that's true, set and hashsets does not 
support operator[], but you can use the "advance" function to emulate 
it. It inefficient with those, but when I have no other choices using 
Python technics ... At least those parts are efficients with lists and 
as inefficient as enything else with sets.

> 
> 
> Alex

Pierre, who hopes to be clearer that time :)


From richie at entrian.com  Thu Oct  7 09:02:01 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:02:01 +0100
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
In-Reply-To: <DaKdnbspTNXGvfjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
	<DaKdnbspTNXGvfjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <71fam01oatd8g87d6dpacbn2mcku9pe4j1@4ax.com>


[Fuzzyman]
> Assuming that each visitor will have a unique IP address is probably
> not 100% accurate but will have a reasonably low margin of error !!

[Peter]
> If I expected many visitors
> from corporate environments, I'd not think this approach would
> have a "reasonably low margin of error".  Almost any such
> environment will have a firewall and masquerade multiple users
> as the same address.

Some (many? all? negligibly few? I don't know) proxy firewalls will tell
you which internal address the request came from, so you can combine the
two to get a unique address for that user.

http://xhaus.com/headers is a useful tool for checking your HTTP headers
(thanks, Alan!).  From where I am at the moment, that tells me:

  Remote IP Address: 213.38.135.130 
  X-Forwarded-For: 172.16.3.123 

The combination of those IP addresses world-wide-uniquely identifies
this PC, even though it's behind a firewall.

I can't speak for the other billion PCs in similar situations.  8-)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From Roger at see.my.sig  Sun Oct 17 17:54:13 2004
From: Roger at see.my.sig (Roger)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:54:13 GMT
Subject: Active X DLL tips?
Message-ID: <9SBcd.46004$H11.1606592@twister1.libero.it>


I want to use and Active X DLL in Python applications. I have the 
win32all stuff installed and the "Excel.Application" example in the 
Client QuickStart section of the manual works OK, so I guess it is 
installed correctly.

Problem comes when I want to use the objects in the OPCDA library. In VB 
I would include the library in the references and could then do 
something like:

Dim foo as OPCServer
dim baa as OPCGroups
(lots of lower level objects omitted)

	set foo=New OPCServer
	foo.Connect <Server details>
	set baa=foo <Call for getting a new OPCGroups object>
	(code continues in a similar manner)

Leading on from the Excel example, I have tried using client.Dispatch 
with "OPCServer", "OPCAutomation.OPCServer" and a few other 
combinations, but I cannot get a valid object. Either I am told the 
string is invalid, or I get no error but the variable which the object 
was supposed to be assigned to is.....not assigned.

Maybe (as warned in the docs) the COM browser is not correctly reporting 
the names I should use. It mentions the VC COM browser, but if you don't 
have that are there other valid alternatives?

I have looked at the gencache functions for generating a Python module 
from the type library, but I am not sure about the parameters, in 
particular, what should the lcid be? Also, what is the correct way to 
pass an IID, as a string complete with the hyphens?

I have looked around for examples but all I have found so far is either 
accessing applications such as Excel, IE and outlook, or building 
clients to test servers that have been created with Python.

I suspect that maybe I sould be doing things a bit differently to access 
a vanilla Automation DLL.

Tips anyone?




From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 19:07:09 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 20:07:09 -0300
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d37090410031607785e98d@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 00:41:04 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>    ...
> Mostly interesting comments, snipped but hopefully useful to clear up
> some confusions from readers, but one I need to comment on...:
> 
> > languages. That happens because def's are not executed at this time -
> > def's are only compiled. But any code inside a class definition that
> 
> Each def statement IS indeed executed; I think what you mean to say is
> that a def statement does not execute the body of the function it's
> defining, it just stashes that body away (in a compiled form) for future
> execution (each time that function is called).

Correct. Thanks for pointing out the difference between the def
statement (which is executed) and the body of the function. This
difference is really important, and once you *really* understand it --
as far as classes, functions and modules declarations work at runtime
-- everything just fits in perfectly.

BTW, once I finish my deep imersion into new style classes, which
includes metaclasses and descriptors, I intend to write a tutorial and
post it somewhere. It's a fascinating topic, but the documentation
seems to assume that you already know what is this stuff useful for
:-) A tutorial would help to clarify stuff greatly.
-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Mon Oct 18 22:12:50 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:12:50 -0600
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <41747822.20403@pythonapocrypha.com>

Jonathan Ellis wrote:
> Andrea Griffini wrote:
> 
>>I did it.
>>
>>I proposed python as the main language for our next CAD/CAM
>>software because I think that it has all the potential needed
>>for it. I'm not sure yet if the decision will get through, but
>>something I'll need in this case is some experience-based set
>>of rules about how to use python in this context.
>>
>>For example... is defining readonly attributes in classes
>>worth the hassle ? Does duck-typing scale well in complex
>>software or should I go for a classic inheritance hierarchy ?
>>
>>In other words... is there something like the classic "Large
>>Scale C++ Software Design" (Lakos) for python ? I'm not
>>looking for a bible, but lessons learned from someone that
>>already went down this path could be quite interesting.
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it have been better to ask these questions BEFORE proposing
> python as (presumably) a Great Solution?  IMO, as great as python is,
> it isn't appropriate for projects that are large and include many
> developers.

The OP would be well-advised to search the Google archives of c.l.py as many 
(myself included) take the contrarian view - as the project grows in size it is 
harder to justify going with "classic" languages like C++, or even Java - the 
associated costs at each stage of the project are relatively larger to begin 
with, and grow more quickly as well.

> The benefits of static typing, not least among which is the vastly
> superior ease of creating tools that "understand" the language,
> outweigh python's advantages in an environment when many people are
> writing a lot of code.

I'm not so sure - how much of the benefit those "smart" tools provide goes to 
helping the developer manage complexity caused by the language itself? It seems 
that often (not always, of course) a lot of what they do is help the programmer 
manage oodles of little details that the programmer ought not be burdened with 
in the first place, _especially_ on large projects.

What specifically do you see breaking down if Python is used in a project with 
lots of people? From working on large projects with lots of people, I've noticed 
that projects naturally get divided into components as different teams work on 
them, regardless of the language (so for any given piece of code, the percentage 
of the total programmers touching that piece of code drops, not rises, as the 
total size of the development staff goes up). Again, regardless of language, 
large projects & teams almost force well-defined interface points between 
various components - I don't see how Python would be any hinderance at all.

On the plus side, projects implemented in higher level languages grow more 
slowly (and thus become unmanageable more slowly) than would projects 
implemented in lower-level languages. The list goes on and on - I've found 
Python components generally easier to test than, say, C++ components. It's also 
easier for more people to comprehend more of the code (and, in turn, more of the 
implications of decisions), etc., etc.

-Dave


From bkc at Murkworks.com  Wed Oct  6 18:10:34 2004
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:10:34 -0400
Subject: porting Python
References: <416349E9.F12B4AE1@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ck1qh4$mnv$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Jive Dadson" <jdadson at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:416349E9.F12B4AE1 at yahoo.com...
> Is there documentation on how to port Python to a new operating system?

> Thanks.

I've ported Python to:

a) Novell NetWare/NLM (that's a true port)

b) cross compiled to uClinux on 68000 processor (not so much a port, more of
a hack-out-bits job)

c) Re-ported Python to Windows CE (2.0, 2.1 and 3.0) boot strapped by Mark H
(who worked from .. ?? someone else's stuff) and subsequently I handed my
stuff to other talented folks.

--

Anyway it's best to start with the simplest build (no threading, no posix
functions).. Then progressively add components once you have the build
process working.

Note that current Python 'builds' use python to bootstrap optional modules,
so that will most likely need adjustment in your environment.

Regarding site.py and search paths, your search path is environment
specific, so that can really be entirely up to you how that works.

--

You mentioned OnTime, which looks like a win32 work-alike. Though, I can't
see what's going to be "real-time" about Python, I guess that depends on
your end-use.

email me directly at bkc at murkworks.com if you wish.

-- 
Novell DeveloperNet Sysop #5

_





From mediocre_person at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 28 17:51:12 2004
From: mediocre_person at hotmail.com (Nick)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:51:12 -0500
Subject: Constructor problem
Message-ID: <418169ec$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>

I'm writing a simple class to represent a deck of cards. Here is the 
stripped down version. Notice classes Deck and Deck2. Class Deck works, 
Deck2 does not. My thinking is that it should be more efficient (a la 
Deck2) to pre-create the list, and then modify it, rather than appending 
Cards as in Deck.

# --------------------snip--------------
class Card:
     def __init__(self, rank=0, suit=0):
         self.rank=rank
         self.suit=suit

     def __repr__(self):
         r = "A23456789TJQK"[self.rank]
         s = "SHCD"[self.suit]
         return r+s


class Deck:
     def __init__(self):
         self.deck = []
         for r in range(13):
             for s in range(4):
                 self.deck.append(Card(r,s))

class Deck2:
     def __init__(self):
         self.deck = 52 * [Card()]
         n = 0
         for r in range(13):
             for s in range(4):
                 self.deck[n].rank = r
                 self.deck[n].suit = s
                 n = n + 1


a = Deck()
print "A --> ", a.deck
b = Deck2()
print "B --> ", b.deck
# ------------snap---------------------

Deck A looks right, 52 cards, one of each. Deck B, on the other hand, is 
52 of the same card, all rank 12, suit 3.

What am I missing???

Thanks!
Nick.


From cold_fusion at fastmail.fm  Fri Oct 15 13:36:39 2004
From: cold_fusion at fastmail.fm (Avi Berkovich)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:36:39 +0200
Subject: Ode to Urllib2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4954.1097767146.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4954.1097767146.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41700a23@news.012.net.il>

Ron Alford wrote:
> 
> Oh Urllib2,
> When I ask, you GET, when I tell, you POST.
> But I am about to lose my HEAD, for these are my only OPTIONS.
> What about my need to PUT up new things, DELETE the old, or TRACE my steps?
> 
> 
> -Ron
> 

Couldn't have said it better ;)

I posted a question about using "PROPFIND" with urllib2... no one 
answered...

Avi.


From firemoth at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 19:35:50 2004
From: firemoth at gmail.com (Timothy Fitz)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:35:50 -0400
Subject: DVD/CD Burning
Message-ID: <972ec5bd041027163556febcdc@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a python library to burn CDs or DVDs with? (Python or worst
case C/C++) I'd rather not use some other commandline tool, but as a
last resort that'd be possible too. PyPi, Google, etc turn up nothing
(or rather, anything there might be seems swamped by commercial
applications)

Timothy Fitz


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct 19 05:57:39 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:57:39 +0200
Subject: List Flatten
References: <5c882bb5.0410161531.41713754@posting.google.com>
	<wlLcd.2992$Ug4.819@trndny01>
	<1glunh2.tgeb3kedb2ouN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<5c882bb5.0410180743.62059c68@posting.google.com>
	<c04dd.4209$WN5.28@trndny08>
Message-ID: <cl2odn$pkh$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:

> 
> "bearophile" <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:5c882bb5.0410180743.62059c68 at posting.google.com...
>> Comparing versions for speed, Raymond Hettinger's version is quite
>> slow (even 10 or more times slower than mine for certain kinds of
>> lists).
>>
>> Into the most nparameterizesof Alex Martelli's version there is a
>> function call to isatomic (and the try-except) that slow down the
>> program a lot. Removing them (we expand lists only) we obtan the short
>> Peter Otten's version, that is a bit better thanChineseor very nested
>> lists and a bit worse for quite flat lists (that are the most common,
>> I think).
> 
> That is an apples-to-oranges comparision.  The loss of speed is due to the
> additional features of not expanding strings and not expanding iterables
> into
> memory all at one.  Previous discussions about flatten() in this newsgroup
> or
> the tutor list have indicated that is what is usually wanted.  Take out
> the test
> for the atomicity of strings and the speed is much improved.  Also, from
> original posting, it seemed that memory friendliness was a key measure for
> merit given the huge data sizes and nesting depths.
> 
> This discussion may have over-abstracted the problem so that your
> apples-to-oranges timings are irrelevant.  Do you have real world use
> cases for wanting to flatten nested containers of non-homogenous object
> types (a mix of
> numbers, strings, dictionaries, etc)?  Do you really want to split your
> strings
> into streams of characters and then throw numbers in the mix.  I think
> not.

In may book all three versions (Alex Martelli's yours and mine) use the
_same_ flattening algorithm with _different_ methods to test for atomicity.
While I take the lightweight (and fast) approach of inlining
isinstance(item, list) - only item.__class__ is list could be faster - as
specified in the original post, you provide a function that tries to cover
most common cases and Alex parameterizes his variant making it a candidate
for inclusion in a library. I think you often have to decide between these
three approaches and would not call it an apples-to-oranges comparison
(btw, oranges are also called "Chinese apples" in German and Dutch, so
somebody thought that comparing them was a good idea :-), but again, it
should be made clear to the OP that he is _not_ comparing flattening
algorithms.

Another lesson - that exceptions can slow down a program if they are raised
in the common case - is also worth noting. 
Various tests for atomicity have been discussed and benchmarked in 

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=vq0ul33348oi42%40corp.supernews.com

which I didn't mention before because the OP explicitly ruled out a
recursive solution.

Peter



From anna at aleax.it  Mon Oct  4 08:17:03 2004
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Martelli Ravenscroft)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:17:03 GMT
Subject: python vs c#
In-Reply-To: <1gl4kcx.1byqnzm1ygitfsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<EPmdnagKPrUPhtPcRVn-iQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.3529.1095642828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gkgxts.1fq0rwq10mycqiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41513aac$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gkih9r.pfgqukvpt1rcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<37tjl09an200u6tejkrtklc8ib86uk7rm1@4ax.com>
	<7E_6d.33917$35.1643590@news4.tin.it>
	<Cj08d.164190$MQ5.50781@attbi_s52>
	<1gl4haj.15lm6eufbcchqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Xns95785A9E572D2JanC@213.118.38.197>
	<1gl4kcx.1byqnzm1ygitfsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3bb8d.35990$75.1776843@news3.tin.it>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> All in all, I find the confusion involved in calling early renaissance
> music "medieval" quite understandable and mostly forgivable.  Nothing
> like the _huge_ distortion implied by calling _classical_ music the
> music made by _romantic_ composers whose main ideological thrust was a
> rebellion *against* the aesthetics and ideology of the classical
> movement... and yet that's a horror that has long been perpetrated by
> all manners of music publishers and stores, isn't it?!

They excel at mixing and matching...

Look at all the "genre" listings for Leonard Cohen. Or the mix-up of 
Rock-a-billy, Bluegrass, Folk, and Country as all being "country" music. 
[shudder]

Anna


From stephen at theboulets.net  Mon Oct 25 09:54:38 2004
From: stephen at theboulets.net (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 08:54:38 -0500
Subject: python and locales
In-Reply-To: <20041024153836.GD728@unpythonic.net>
References: <kMednflpXL_VIObcRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>
	<20041024153836.GD728@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <200410250854.38491.stephen@theboulets.net>

On Sunday 24 October 2004 10:38 am, Jeff Epler wrote:
> See
>     http://python.org/peps/pep-0263.html
> and
>     http://docs.python.org/ref/encodings.html
>
> Does this answer your question?
>
> Jeff

Yes thanks.

-- 

Stephen      

If your desktop gets out of control easily,
you probably have too much stuff on it that
doesn't need to be there.
         Donna Smallin, "Unclutter Your Home"


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Sat Oct 23 18:31:57 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:31:57 +0200
Subject: ANN: Frog 1.0 beta  (Python 'blog' system)
Message-ID: <417adbe1$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

I've just uploaded Frog 1.0 beta.

Frog is a blogging (web log) system written in 100% Python.
It is a web application written for Snakelets.
It outputs XHTML, is fully unicode compatible, and doesn't
require a database.

You can read about it and download (about 50 Kb) it here:
http://snakelets.sourceforge.net/frog/

If you don't want to install it yet, you can first try it out here:
http://www.razorvine.net/snake/frog/
(the passwords of each user is the same as the username).


It's still beta. If you encounter bugs or problems, please let me know.


Enjoy,
--Irmen de Jong.


From python at rcn.com  Tue Oct 19 03:39:53 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 03:39:53 -0400
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
In-Reply-To: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022FA7@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <000001c4b5ae$d3302020$19b62c81@oemcomputer>


"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote ...

def warehouse(stock, factory=None):
    """warehouse(stock, factory=None) -> iavailable, iremainder.
Iterate over stock, yielding each value. Once the 'stock' sequence is
exhausted, the factory function (or any callable, such as a class) is
called to produce a new valid object upon each subsequent call to
next().
    
 If factory is None, the class of the first item in the sequence is
used as a constructor. If the factory function is not a bound method, it
does not receive any arguments, so if your class has mandatory arguments
to __init__, wrap the class in a function which can supply those.
 . . .
What do you all think? I've been using a class-based variant of this in
production code (business app) for six months now, and have found it
extremely helpful. I saw a pointer to itertools today and figured a
function-based version might be nice to include in that module someday.

------------------------------------------------------------
Raymond's reply ...

Here are some random thoughts based on a first read through:

* The basic idea of iterating stock and then calling a factory when the
stock is depleted is already expressible in terms of itertools.  For
example, if random.random() is the factory:

   iavailable = chain(stock, starmap(random.random, repeat(())))

* The second iterator, iremainder, ventures well beyond the basic idea
of a warehouse/factory chain.  It pushes the learning curve up steeply
and makes the function less generic (i.e. plenty of situations that
could use the warehouse/factory chain have no need for the separate
iremainder iterator).

* Making the factory argument optional is, IMO, also trying to do too
much.  Using the first stock item to identify a type and then calling
the type is probably more appropriate for prototype based OO (i.e. with
objects designed for cloning operations).  Also, the number of potential
uses is limited because knowing the type does not imply that you know
the signature for the constructor or that you can infer argument values
for constructors that take arguments. 

* This function has not seen real world use outside your organization.
Posting it as an ASPN recipe might give it a chance to be kicked around
a bit and perhaps re-emerge in a more mature form.

* Most of the itertools and their kin only try to encapsulate a tiny bit
of logic (enumerate and takewhile for example).  Even the most complex
tool, groupby(), is built around an atomic idea (roughly akin to the
uniq filter in Unix uniq).  The bite sized approach enables itertools to
simplify code without obscuring the program logic.  IMO, the proposed
warehouse() function does not share that advantage (though it is
possible that repetition may allow ones mind to eventually condense the
logic into a managable unit of thought).


Raymond Hettinger



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Oct 20 06:48:50 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 12:48:50 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<tyfsm8b9kqm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1glxal0.rxjtsr1pbf0guN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfoeixycsh.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1glyd70.1bwulqk17xnrcrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tyf6555hdgt.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>    ...
> > > > def doesThisLanguageBindByValue(language):
> > > >     a = 'original'
> > > >     b = a
> > > >     b = 'new'
> > > >     if a == 'original':
> > > >         print "%s assigns by value" % (language)
> > > >     else:
> > > >         print "%s does not assigns by value" % (language)
>    ...
> > > Can you give some examples of languages which would end up in the else
> > > branch?
> > 
> > Sure. Here it is in C++:
>    ...
> >   std::string  a = "original";
> >   std::string& b = a;
> 
> Ah, references, of course.

Well, the original question _was_ (I prapharse) "by *reference*, or by
value?". Given that C++ allows you to choose, why not choose?

> And you need to make the two "b =" bits drastically different in
> meaning,

_I_ don't. That C++ choses to do so, is a different matter. (Hence my
earlier comment about C++ doing exactly what it says on the tin being
rather rare :-)

> taking advantage of the fact that C++ overloads = to mean both
> initialization/construction and assignment; that's not quite
> cheating but it sure bends the rules;-).

I'm just using the surface syntax provided by C++. Don't blame me for
C++ being a complete mess :-)

> And after all this, the message "C++ does not assign by value" is false,
> because it sure does, under many (most!-) circumstances.

The relative frequency is a function of how often the programmer
choses to use "&".

> You'd need to rephrase this as "under at least some circumstances,
> C++ does assign not-by-value" or the like.

Which is why I _did_ rephrase the message in the C++ example :-0

> OK, so there are languages which have reference-variables

Exactly. And Python is not one of them.


From listserver at tdw.net  Fri Oct  8 07:23:06 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:23:06 +0100
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
References: <mailman.4522.1097173984.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<lNm9d.872$lp6.537@okepread01>
	<20041007204539.ED55.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <00a601c4ad29$2ecf79f0$ccbefea9@twilliams>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at uci.edu>


>
> > If you want to use file primitives to read the value back, just create
> > another one:
> >
> > inpt = StringIO.StringIO(firstStringIO.getvalue())
> >
> > then you can read the printed output from inpt just like a file.
>
> Or even:
>
>  firstStringIO.seek(0)
>
>  - Josiah

Steve, Andrew, Josiah,

Thanks for your answers.

The outgoing SMTP is multi-threaded,   so the threads disrupt each other's
output to the file-like object  if there is any concurrent outgoing mail
activity.

Is there anyway I can seperate the output from each thread and capture it ?

The outgoing threads are started  with








From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 20 08:07:31 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:07:31 -0400
Subject: form gives error when user submit "'" (single quote) in the form
In-Reply-To: <30e26235.0410192324.39454f73@posting.google.com>
References: <30e26235.0410192324.39454f73@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <TCsdd.801$si.757@lakeread04>

Sheetal wrote:

> Hello
> 
> I have a text area form element in my HTML form. When a user enters
> the "'" in the form the form throws an error when i use the value to
> enter in the database.
> 
> Please help

Your code is also taking the risk that the user will enter a string that 
completely alters the intent of your SQL code, so you need to clean this 
up. I presume you are using some DB API-compliant module, in which case 
you should use parameterized queries rather than building them yourself 
from strings.

The commonest problem is using something like

stmt = "INSERT INTO tbl (ColumnName) VALUES('%s')" % FormValue
curs.execute(stmt)

to construct a SQL statement and insert data into a table. Instead you 
should use the parameterisation abilities of your database module (but 
be careful: different modules have different paramstyles, so some use 
question marks, others use different parameter markers), and use

stmt = "INSERT INTO tbl (ColumnName) VALUES(?)"
curs.execute(stmt, (FormValue, ))

When a second argument is given to execute it's expected to be a tuple 
of required values - in this case there's just one, but the principle 
extends. This construct has the datab ase module perform any necessary 
escaping of awkward characters liek quotes, and makes things more 
readable too.

Obviously you could do the escaping yourself with something like

stmt = "INSERT INTO tbl (ColumnName) VALUES('%s')" % \
		FormValue.replace("'", "''")

but this gets old quickly, and can trip you up if you decide to port to 
another database engine with different quoting requirements.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From richie at entrian.com  Fri Oct  1 08:16:52 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:16:52 +0100
Subject: Emacs is going to die! =( [was Re: Emacs + python (Was Re:
	python is going to die! =()
In-Reply-To: <du7sm8y3b4n.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<278de0e.0409201131.57baf7f9@posting.google.com>
	<414f61bf$0$29449$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<rwJ3d.1000$g42.675@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<87hdprv3qd.fsf_-_@ion.xlipstream.com>
	<du7fz5a8tte.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<cdd4e677.0410010149.50b50324@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4171.1096625088.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7sm8y3b4n.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <dgiql012g8ve8u5ocojeplir06bcguinif@4ax.com>


[Richie]
> There is no File/Open.  You can't just open an arbitrary file and
> edit it; the file must be part of a project.

[Ville]
> File / Open external file.

I'm calling the optician now.

> It's not drag-and-drop, but better than nothing.

Lack of drag-and-drop was another problem I'd noticed, yes.  8-)

Thanks,

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Oct 28 20:44:17 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:44:17 -0400
Subject: Python equivalent of LWP and HTTP in Perl
References: <vAbgd.24$SJ2.18@fe61.usenetserver.com>
	<41814e83$0$48933$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<41817b56$1@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <qnkvfcupd3y.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

"Erik Johnson" <spam at nospam.org> writes:

> "Irmen de Jong" wrote
>
>> >   my($ua) = LWP::UserAgent->new;
>> >   my $req = GET "$uri";
>> >   $req->header(Referer => "$referer");
>> >   $ua->proxy('http', 'http://localhost:8080/'); # Proxomitron
>> >   $response = $ua->request($req);
>> >   $respcode = $response->code;
>>
>>
>> import urllib
>> proxies = {'http': 'http://localhost:8080/'}
>> response = urllib.urlopen("some_url", proxies=proxies).read()
>
> ... which is short and clean, but ignores the Referer header.
> I have worked with httplib some, but not urllib. Maybe urllib can do this,
> but may I suggest checking out httplib:
> http://docs.python.org/lib/httplib-examples.html

Try urllib2:

import urllib2

proxy_support = urllib2.ProxyHandler({"http" : "http://localhost:8080/"})
opener = urllib2.build_opener(proxy_support)
urllib2.install_opener(opener)

req = urllib2.Request("some_url")
req.add_header("Referer", referer)
response = urllib2.urlopen(req)


There's fancier handlers too, if you need digest authentication, for
example. If you have the environment variable 'http_proxy' set to your
proxy, you don't need to do the install_opener jazz.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 13 09:59:18 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:59:18 +0200
Subject: Compiled Byte code
References: <1097675350.5192.206374341@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <ckjcbm$r2t$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Soumitri" wrote:

> Is there a dependency of version or platform for running a snippet of
> python compiled code? I have a .pyc (possibly created on a *nix box)
> that was created off ver 1.5.2 and returns a "Bad Magic Number in .pyc
> file" error when i run a box with XP and Python 2.3.

the byte code is changed from time to time.  you can use imp.get_magic()
to get an identifier for the current format; any interpreter that has the same
"magic" can run your code.

    http://docs.python.org/lib/module-imp.html

for some ideas on how to use get_magic() in your code, see:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-November/196230.html

</F> 





From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Thu Oct 14 04:46:02 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:46:02 +0200
Subject: windows
In-Reply-To: <21064255.0410130922.40e59cb@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4811.1097649067.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<21064255.0410130922.40e59cb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416e3b07$0$27890$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Peter Abel wrote:
> Ajay <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.4811.1097649067.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>hi!
>>
>>i have two tkinter windows on top of each other. i would like it so that
>>the user has to complete the fields in the top windows before they can
>>interact with the window below it. that is, i dont want the user to close
>>the top window or minimize it or send it into the background.
>>
>>how would i do it?
>>
>>thanks
>>
>>cheers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
> 
> 
> There are documentations which say that Tkinter.Toplevel has
> a methode .transient(root) which should make the Toplevel window
> transient to its root window.
> But I never managed to make it work.(W2K Python 2.2.2).

Read tk commands manual:

"""
wm transient window ?master?
     If master is specified, then the window manager is informed that window is 
a transient window (e.g. pull-down menu) working on behalf of master (where 
master is the path name for a top-level window). Some window managers will use 
this information to manage window specially.
"""

Nothing is said about which window should have the grab. And in fact, Windows 
actually does something when a window is made transient; try this in an 
interactive Python session:

 >>> from Tkinter import *
 >>> root = Tk()
 >>> wdw = Toplevel()
 >>> wdw.transient(root)

You can first notice that the minimize and maximize buttons have disappeared 
from the secondary window's title bar, and that the close button has shrinked a 
little. Then, if you try to put the main window above the secondary one, you'll 
see that you can't. But you can still make the main window active.

So transient is only part of the solution. You also want to set the grab on the 
secondary window, and then wait for the secondary window to close. Here is an 
example doing that:

--modal.py-------------------------------------------------
from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()

def go():
   wdw = Toplevel()
   Entry(wdw).pack()
   wdw.transient(root)
   wdw.grab_set()
   root.wait_window(wdw)
   print 'done!'

Button(root, text='Go', command=go).pack()
Button(root, text='Quit', command=root.quit).pack()

root.mainloop()
-----------------------------------------------------------

So this is the magical sequence to make a window modal in Tkinter: transient, 
grab_set, wait_window.

[snip]

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct  8 13:51:46 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 08 Oct 2004 20:51:46 +0300
Subject: Establishing a p2p connection in python
References: <a50cee44.0410080026.30cf04f0@posting.google.com>
	<1glc4eg.zvju3nsu0g6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<a50cee44.0410080916.76e416c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7llehgkst.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "gs" == gs  <gs.lists at gmail.com> writes:

    gs> Off to read up on this and try to persuade my isp to let me
    gs> add .torrent apptypes :)

What does your ISP have to do with this? .torrents are just normal
files. 

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 09:36:15 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:36:15 +0200
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>
	<1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<n5qdnS65dp2K2x_cRVn-1w@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1gmfclt.1g61j8z1uatvgzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Of course, nobody is forcing anyone to include ctypes in the
> standard distribution either, but it seems that the choice should
> be made based more on what ctype's *users* think about it than
> what someone who perhaps has rarely or never actually used it

ctypes' users can keep using it.  Putting it in the std distro would
encourage a bazillion others to use it -- there's the rub.


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 03:17:14 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:17:14 +0200
Subject: proposals for having more fun with map
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410091223580.27361-100000@urchin.earth.li>
	<du7zn2w2cbo.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0410091947130.21164-100000@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <1gliknx.1xmnqaw124oq77N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> wrote:

> > Actually, the more likely future of map is moving *out* of the core, to
> > a "functional" module of some sort. List comprehensions (and soon
> > genexps) are the recommended approach.
> 
> NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! one by one, my favourite languages are being
> mutilated beyond recognition ... </overreaction>

Yep, an overreaction.  Moving a function among different modules of the
standard library (e.g., from builtins to a new module 'functional') is
very different from changing the language.


Alex


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Fri Oct 29 19:02:16 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:02:16 +0200
Subject: Corba vs Soap (was: Re: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same
	connection?)
In-Reply-To: <clugqd$ukm$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
	<mailman.5652.1099050368.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ueq45F2a9e6eU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<6c6a52-r5t.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<clu3cd$oe$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.10.30.00.47.53.108306@jerf.org>
	<clugqd$ukm$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4182cbf9$0$78279$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Exactly - its grey. SOAP is grey in that field, too. So it renders e.g. .NET
> and AXIS un-interoperable when more than the most trivial tasks are
> planned. 

Which is a big pain in the butt! We had to deal with this a few times
in our company, and (if I recall correctly) had to decide on a custom
XML structure that was sent inside a very very basic SOAP wrapper.
(the client wanted SOAP, they got SOAP... :-( )

> I've been in contact with xmlrpc/soap after I became aquainted with corba,
> and I have to say that to me its a huge step back in time. But it gets the
> attention these days, due to clever marketing and the fact that its based
> on xml - something that seems to be a must these days.

Back in 2002 I wrote a very extensive article/whitepaper on this subject.
It's available on the OMG website:

   http://www.omg.org/news/whitepapers/CORBA_vs_SOAP1.pdf

Interesting stuff inside, if you're into this kind of technology.
(it's PDF, other formats also available on my own website)


--Irmen de Jong


From King at dircon.co.uk  Sat Oct  9 10:37:05 2004
From: King at dircon.co.uk (Nigel King)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:37:05 +0400
Subject: IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
In-Reply-To: <2e37dc1.0410050515.b21eea3@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4079.1096469961.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2e37dc1.0410050515.b21eea3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <B0A48D08-1A00-11D9-A7D1-0003938543A0@dircon.co.uk>

On 5 Oct 2004, at 17:15, Vinay Sajip wrote:

> Are you sure that all you need to do is
> to set default signal handling for SIGPIPE?

I am not sure at all. Since your email I have reviewed your 
documentation and now see the raiseExceptions variable. I presume that 
I simply use
logging.raiseExceptions = False
after
import logging

I used signal.SIGPIPE after googling for Broken Pipe. I think I will 
remove that line.

Random tests I have devised have not revealed this error but Random 
input from others has generated the problem, usually after a burst of 
activity when previously there has been no activity for several days. 
Coincidence?

Thank you very much for your help - and a very useful module.

Nigel King



From theller at python.net  Wed Oct 27 11:12:35 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:12:35 +0200
Subject: 2.4beta1 distutil problem?
References: <417fa7d3$0$19570$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <hdog5h5o.fsf@python.net>

Helmut Jarausch <jarausch at skynet.be> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I'd like to install SCons (http://www.scons.org) on my Linux box.
> There, the cvs version of Python is running.
> Doing as recommended in the README file
>
> export SCONS_LIB_DIR=`pwd`/src/engine
> python src/script/scons.py build/scons
>
> I get after some time
> /usr/local/bin/python build/scons/setup.py bdist_wininst
> running bdist_wininst
> running build
> running build_py
> running build_scripts
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/Obj/OBJ/Python/SCons/scons/build/scons/setup.py", line 221, in ?
>      apply(distutils.core.setup, (), arguments)
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/distutils/core.py", line 149, in setup
>      dist.run_commands()
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/distutils/dist.py", line 946, in
>    run_commands
>      self.run_command(cmd)
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/distutils/dist.py", line 966, in
>    run_command
>      cmd_obj.run()
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/distutils/command/bdist_wininst.py",
>    line 127, in run
>      assert self.skip_build, "Should have already checked this"
> AssertionError: Should have already checked this
> scons: *** [build/scons/dist/scons-0.96.win32.exe] Error 1
>  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^^^^^^^^^
> Remember this is a build on a Linux machine.
>
>
> This install procedure is claimed to work with Python 2.3.x .

Seems like a bug to me.  And it has nothing to do with Linux or not - it
is triggered if the distribution doesn't have any extension modules.

A quick fix is this patch, at least it works for me:

Thomas

Index: bdist_wininst.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/python/python/dist/src/Lib/distutils/command/bdist_wininst.py,v
retrieving revision 1.54
diff -c -r1.54 bdist_wininst.py
*** bdist_wininst.py	17 Aug 2004 10:15:07 -0000	1.54
--- bdist_wininst.py	27 Oct 2004 15:11:11 -0000
***************
*** 116,135 ****
          install_lib.compile = 0
          install_lib.optimize = 0
  
!         # If we are building an installer for a Python version other
!         # than the one we are currently running, then we need to ensure
!         # our build_lib reflects the other Python version rather than ours.
!         # Note that for target_version!=sys.version, we must have skipped the
!         # build step, so there is no issue with enforcing the build of this
!         # version.
!         target_version = self.target_version
!         if not target_version:
!             assert self.skip_build, "Should have already checked this"
!             target_version = sys.version[0:3]
!         plat_specifier = ".%s-%s" % (get_platform(), target_version)
!         build = self.get_finalized_command('build')
!         build.build_lib = os.path.join(build.build_base,
!                                        'lib' + plat_specifier)
  
          # Use a custom scheme for the zip-file, because we have to decide
          # at installation time which scheme to use.
--- 116,136 ----
          install_lib.compile = 0
          install_lib.optimize = 0
  
!         if self.distribution.has_ext_modules():
!             # If we are building an installer for a Python version other
!             # than the one we are currently running, then we need to ensure
!             # our build_lib reflects the other Python version rather than ours.
!             # Note that for target_version!=sys.version, we must have skipped the
!             # build step, so there is no issue with enforcing the build of this
!             # version.
!             target_version = self.target_version
!             if not target_version:
!                 assert self.skip_build, "Should have already checked this"
!                 target_version = sys.version[0:3]
!             plat_specifier = ".%s-%s" % (get_platform(), target_version)
!             build = self.get_finalized_command('build')
!             build.build_lib = os.path.join(build.build_base,
!                                            'lib' + plat_specifier)
  
          # Use a custom scheme for the zip-file, because we have to decide
          # at installation time which scheme to use.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 03:17:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:17:44 +0200
Subject: operation with strings and numbers
References: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it> <du7acun3kvz.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckqqp2$2om$1@news.flashnet.it>
	<1glsu2s.t92mev7jx81cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ckvok7$l0s$1@news.flashnet.it>
Message-ID: <1gluhl4.ivndvafwk1blN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Hellas <hellas_74 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry but It doesn't exist 

You probably mean your ISP (flashnet) doesn't carry it.  It's obviously
wrong for any Italian ISP to fail to carry the entire it.* official
hierarchy -- protest with them.  Meanwhile, you can use Google Groups or
other non-NNTP hacks to read and write on it.comp.lang.python -- or
freely join "Individual Net", see <http://www.individual.net/> for
registration (I've done that because I travel so much that getting news
from any given ISP is impractical -- I previously used cheap
newsguy.com, but individual.net is completely free, and free's better
than cheap).


Alex


From steve_g at ix.netcom.com  Wed Oct 20 22:43:31 2004
From: steve_g at ix.netcom.com (Steve Goldman)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 02:43:31 GMT
Subject: Recursive function to develop permutations
References: <RiZcd.840$5i5.671@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<1glxc40.1kfx0apgrp3u3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <nnFdd.2986$5i5.1800@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Thanks to everyone for lots to think about.  I really like the concept of
counting in base "X" as a model for this problem.

But now I have another question.  In the elegant recursive generator, below,
the yield expression for the terminating condition is followed by a return
statement.  Why is that necessary?  I know it is, because I tried taking it
out with unhappy consequences.   I thought yield had the same effect as
return, except that the function's state was "frozen" until the next
iteration.

Thanks again.



> Are these "counting" solutions any simpler than the recursive one?  I
> don't really think so, for a cleanly-implemented recursion (one without
> globals and a first-time switch...!-) such as:
>
> def permute(Xs, N):
>     if N <= 0:
>         yield []
>         return
>     for x in Xs:
>         for sub in permute(Xs, N-1):
>             yield [x]+sub
>





From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Oct 14 12:03:00 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:03:00 GMT
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<10mt60mhr42rl09@corp.supernews.com>
	<416e9c21$0$23221$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.14.12.02.30.117328@jerf.org>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:32:49 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2004-10-14, Michael Hobbs <mike at hobbshouse.org> wrote:
>> First, you would need a Python compiler that can compile Python programs to 
>> machine code. Otherwise, what would you write your interpreter in? Python?
> 
> Silicon.  ;)

"Forgive him, Father Intel, for he knows not for what he asks."

(OK, I think you do, but I couldn't resist. :-) )




From michael.mata at gaigen.net  Fri Oct 22 03:43:30 2004
From: michael.mata at gaigen.net (Michael)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 00:43:30 -0700
Subject: help with map function
Message-ID: <e4217d28.0410212343.524a71ce@posting.google.com>

In the book 'Text Processing Python,' they present a function that I'm
having a real hard time understanding.

apply_each = lambda fns, args=[]: map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))


I understand that the lamda statement is passing a function that
accepts a function and an iterable variable as arguments.

The function passed by lamda is a map statement that maps the function
in the arguement list against each item in the iterable variable.

However, I don't understand what is happening in the 3rd arguement of
map though.  What does [args]*len(fns) do?


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 08:48:56 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 05:48:56 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<940ee3e8.0410262000.6e34568f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410270448.732243d5@posting.google.com>

kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik) wrote in message news:<940ee3e8.0410262000.6e34568f at posting.google.com>...
> Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list at python.org>...

> [...]i dont give a damn about your rules 4
> proper communciation, as long as i'm understood.
Sorry for that.
-kartik


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sun Oct 31 08:33:09 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:33:09 +0100
Subject: List problem
In-Reply-To: <1gmiyon.jvyq1w1ob9r59N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.5668.1099072329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<v2m9o0d7d1v3h4doumfkmb4djk41u0gb9c@4ax.com>
	<1gmiyon.jvyq1w1ob9r59N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2uk7slF2am8o4U1@uni-berlin.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> User <1 at 2.3> wrote:
>    ...
>> >In general, removing elements from a list while you're iterating though
>> >the list is a bad idea.  Perhaps a better solution is a list
>> >comprehension:
>> 
>> Unless you're using a while loop and iterating in reverse, for
>> example:
>> 
>> a = [0,1,2,3,4]
>> pos_max = len(a) - 1  # Maximum iterable element
>> pos = pos_max         # Current element
>> while pos >= 0:
>>       if a[pos] == 2:
>>               a.remove(2)
>>               pos_max = pos_max - 1
>>       pos = pos - 1
> 
> Still a bad idea.
> 
>     a[:] = [x for x in a if x != 2]
       ^^^
What are these for?

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From zondervanz at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 17:32:16 2004
From: zondervanz at gmail.com (zipher)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 14:32:16 -0700
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<1gl2s8a.1imgbyqcxntogN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3b59a80.0410031332.4493bdef@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gl2s8a.1imgbyqcxntogN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> > I want to be able to create a class at runtime by calling some
> 
> All classes are created at runtime, normally by executing (at runtime:
> there is no other 'time'...;-) a 'class' statement.

Yes, I should have put that in quotes.  What I meant to convey was
that I want to be able to create a class 'on the fly' without having
to define it first.

> > Ideally, I'd be able to do something like:
> > 
> > >>> Bag = Metadict(filter=int) #Metadict returns a new class named
> > 'Bag'
> 
> The normal Python syntax for that purpose might rather be:
> 
> class Bag:
>     __metaclass__ = Metadict
>     filter = int
> 
> and for that use, Medadict would be rather simple to write... but
> your stated purpose (to this point) is even better accomplished by:
> 
> class Bag(dict):
>     filter = int    

Yes, your suggestions were my second, and first implemenations
respectively.  However, both require defining a class by the 'user',
so to speak, as opposed to letting the user simply call a 'function'
that returns the customized class with the filter class attribute
already set.

Another reason it would be helpful to be able to wrap this in an
expression like "Metadict(filter=int)" is because I can then use this
as a parameter passed to other parts of the application.  (Although,
as you suggested, I'd have to pass the name as well.)

For example, in keeping with the aforementioned example, consider
creating a basic integer-weighted Graph class starting with the
following:

#A Graph is a dict whose values are Vertex.
#A Vertex is a dict whose values are int.
>>> Graph = Metadict(name='Graph', filter=Metadict(name='Vertex',
filter=int))
>>> g = Graph()
# create outgoing links on graph vertex 1 to 3,4,5:
>>> g[1] = {3: 1, 4: 2.0, 5: '3'}
#this raw dict above will be converted to Vertex because 
# of the Graph.filter function and assigned to g[1]
#Vertex.filter automatically coerced dict values to ints:
>>> g[1]              
Vertex({3: 1, 4: 2, 5: 3})

But perhaps a simpler way to illustrate my intent is to just imagine a
series of dictionary classes which restrict all their values to a
certain type (through the filter function) before insertion into the
dictionary.  Dictionaries of ints, lists, and strings along with
custom filters that, say, validate the values for correct spelling, or
whatever.

Now you ("I" ;^) don't want to require the user to create a new class
for every possible filtered dict variety.  And, yes, you could avoid
this by just subclassing dict and passing the filter function to
__init__ and setting it as an instance attribute, but then you have an
extra attribute stored for every instance of your filtered dictionary
and the (albeit) small cost of assigning this attribute for every
instance created.  (Consider again the Graph example, where there are
going to be many instances of the Vertex class within the Graph and
you don't want a unique filter function for each Vertex instance
within the Graph.)

This would seem like an ideal application for a metaclass (in the
abstract sense, not necessarily in the way Python implements the
concept):  I want something that will create and return a specialized
class based on the parameters I pass to it.

Alex, thanks for your response.

zipher


From andre.roberge at ns.sympatico.ca  Fri Oct 15 18:55:43 2004
From: andre.roberge at ns.sympatico.ca (Andr? Roberge)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 15:55:43 -0700
Subject: "Visually following", line by line, the execution of a program
Message-ID: <f06d8508.0410151455.d06adbf@posting.google.com>

I want to "import and execute" a python program (input_test.py below)
within another program (execute_test.py below) and "watch it" being
executed.
By watching it, I mean to display the file input_test.py in a window
(GUI) and
highlighting the line being executed.  
I am *simulating* this here by printing the line being executed with
the corresponding line number and it works as expected for "simple"
programs.

The problem arises when I want to do a loop (or other similar blocks).
If I write a loop as

for i in range(2):
    print i

exec() gives an EOF error, as it processes the "for" line.
I have tried to put the loop on a single physical line, something like
for i in range(2):\n    print i

but this didn't work either.   I really would like to be able to
follow within the loops too...
Any pointer would be greatly appreciated.

Andre Roberge

Btw, input_test.py is already processed to tag on the ";NUM = ...". 
It is not the file as I would want it to appear on a window being
traced.

===== File Constants.py ====
NUM = 1

===== File input_test.py ===
from Constants import * ; NUM = 2
print "Starting within input_test"; NUM = 3
print "Within input_test, NUM =", NUM; NUM = 4
print "Done!"

===== File execute_test.py ===
import time
from Constants import *
inp = open("input_test.py", "r")

for line in inp.readlines():
    print "NUM =", NUM, ":",
    exec(line)
    time.sleep(1)

inp.close()

======= Output from the program =====
NUM = 1 : NUM = 2 : Starting within input_test
NUM = 3 : Within input_test, NUM = 3
NUM = 4 : Done!


From golux at comcast.net  Thu Oct  7 02:24:16 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 02:24:16 -0400
Subject: [OT] New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <2sjravF1im94sU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.4329.1096975106.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gl6u3c.1eo6g6qc3j9vdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2sjravF1im94sU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4164E110.1020505@comcast.net>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
>> Mark English <Mark.English at liffe.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Python is generally 2000 to 3000 times faster than Java if you run Java
>>> on a toaster and Python on a super-cooled space computer orbiting
>>> Saturn.
>>
>> Roughly correct, though the exact number depends on the model of
>> toaster.  But in the next release of Python, we're going to extend the
>> validity of this observation to computers orbiting Neptune
> 
> The disadvantage being that you have to get the results back
> via the Deep Space Network, which at that distance is limited
> to about 3 bits per second. Fine for functions with a boolean
> result, though.

... except for the 8+ hour (minimum!) round-trip time for your
signal to get to Neptune and back.  Ha, you thought internet latency
was a pain?  Yes, boys and girls, Neptune be eight light-*hours*
away.  Earth small; space *BIG*!  (Even in our own tiny little
neighborhood.  ;)

Steve


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct  9 23:20:35 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 03:20:35 GMT
Subject: 'psyco' problem
In-Reply-To: <1097371920.617950@mystique.esoterica.pt>
References: <1097371920.617950@mystique.esoterica.pt>
Message-ID: <7U1ad.8019$UP1.4008@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Paulo da Silva wrote:
 > I got:
 > ../tp.py:7: warning: eval()/execfile() cannot see the locals in functions
 > bound by Psyco; consider using eval() in its two- or three-arguments form

In the following

   def main():
       n=eval("123+456")
       print n

it appears that Psycho can't peer into the eval string
to figure out what's used.  It doesn't know, for example,
if you're trying to do something like this

   import math
   def main():
       n = 0
       n=eval("123+n*math.pi")
       print n

To handle it correctly it would need to understand
Python's full scopes, which is hard.

Instead, Psyco is asking you for some help.  You
need to tell it what variables might be used inside
the eval string by passing the list of possible
values via the optional 2nd and 3rd arguments to
eval.  See the docs for details.  Here's how to make
what you want work

   def main():
       n=eval("123+456", {})
       print n

WARNING: this is based solely on reading the error
message.  My primary machine is a Mac and Psyco
doesn't run on it so I cannot test my answer.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 03:28:09 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 00:28:09 -0700
Subject: Python Newbie. Python on PPC, please assist.
References: <2qudnV1KKuD7RfvcRVnyhg@pipex.net>
	<uqydnWcPC8IgsfXcRVnygg@pipex.net>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410102328.5d2f61d2@posting.google.com>

"pythonnewbie" <.> wrote in message news:<uqydnWcPC8IgsfXcRVnygg at pipex.net>...
> Many thanks for your help! I now have Python 2.3.4 installed and running on
> the ppc :) You are correct I had to get the ARM release for my device, and
> the murkworks one certainly seems to be out of date.

Sourceforge is the right place to get releases.


> The pythonCE mailing list sounds great- any idea how i can join this?

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonce

Sorry - I was just being lazy, I should have listed this before.

> You mentioned Tk/Tkinter and Tk/Tcl- are these two different development
> enviroments?

No, they are the same. Tk is the graphics library itself and Tcl is
the language that it works 'with'. Tkinter is the python library that
is a bridge to the Tk library. The latest version of python for PPC
comes with a good version of Tkinter, but you will still need to get
the PPC port of Tk/Tcl.

> I had heard about the raw_input limitation, and also heard that the solution
> was to use a dialog box for text input.. I am yet to find out how to put in
> a dialog box (there doesn't appear to be a function to get text input from a
> dialog box...) being so new to all this...

I would recommend playing with Tk on a desktop machine for a bit. It's
not *very* difficult, but there is a learning curve.

> You mentioned that the port had just the standard lib.. Is there any (easy)

*Just* the standard lib, thats pretty damn good.

> way of adding extra libs? I wanted to add the easygame lib and I put it in
> what I thought was the appropriate folder on the PPC, and it wouldn't

Any pure python library should 'just work'.

> recognise it.... I put the .pyc easygame lib in, as well as the .py, as all
> the files in the folder appeared to be complied ones (.pyc). Still no luck.
> Many thanks again for all your help!

If you ask this question again on the pythonCE mailing list we'll work
it out.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> P.S. I am new to newsgroups too... I am using Outlook Express to post,
> however the replies don't seem to show up in Outlook Express.. When I check
> in Outlook Express, it says my original message has no replies, but when I
> checked using Google groups, hey presto- there were your two replies! Any
> ideas what I'm doing wrong?
> "pythonnewbie" <.> wrote in message news:2qudnV1KKuD7RfvcRVnyhg at pipex.net...
> > Hi All. I'm just starting to learn programming using Python. I am new to
> > programming so please be patient with me!
> > I found this for Pocket PC:
> > http://www.murkworks.com/Research/Python/PocketPCPython/PPCPythonR2Notes
> > I tried installing it and for some reason it would not work. Having
> > installed it,  clicking on the program gives the error "PocketPCPython.exe
> > or one of it's components cannot be found", even though I am directly
> > clicking on the exe, and even after much fiddling making sure all the
>  files
> > are there.
> > I'm not a newbie as far as pda's go, so I'm a little confused as to why
>  it's
> > not working.
> > What I really want to know though, is what it actually, does before I go
> > about spending time getting it working. I mean, is it a development
> > environment, like IDLE, or does it just install the Python libraries so
>  you
> > can run Python programs on a PPC, or what? As I said, I am a complete
> > programming newbie so sorry if I'm talking rubbish.
> > I'd be really greatful if someone could tell me what the Python PPC
>  program
> > is/does. Also if there are any other (better) programs for Python on PPC.
> > And if anyone has any ideas why the install didn't work on the PPC, I'd be
> > greatful for advice on that too.
> > Many thanks in advance.
> >
> >


From vic.norman at marconi.com  Fri Oct  8 09:42:33 2004
From: vic.norman at marconi.com (Victor Norman)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:42:33 -0400
Subject: Client for server doing dispatcher_with_send
Message-ID: <ck64g9$k7g$1@newsfeed.pit.comms.marconi.com>

Hi all,

I have a server that uses the asyncore stuff with dispatcher_with_send in
order to send a bunch of pickled bytes to a client.  The length of the
message is generally about 3000 bytes.

My problem is that I don't know how to write the client elegantly.  I'm not
using asyncore or anything for the client -- just the socket module.

Currently, my code is working, but is inelegant, I think.  here it is:

data = ""
newData = ""
while True:
    newData = sock.recv(8192)
    data += newData
    if len(newData) < 512:
        break
sock.close()

This works because the dispatcher_with_send() sends packets with 512 bytes
in them, unless there is less than 512 bytes to send.

Is there a more elegant way to write this?  How can I determine that nothing
more is being sent?

Vic




From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Mon Oct 11 17:14:29 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:14:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [OT] Where to host an open source project? Sourceforge?
	Who	offers Subversion already?
References: <ckd61r$i4m$1@newshispeed.ch> <ckd728$288u$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
	<ckeklr$e45$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<mailman.4727.1097527855.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cket3k$s26$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> pisze:

>>You can also host your project infrastructure wherever you want and use
>>one of open SVN repositiories (see list at
>>http://subversion.tigris.org/propaganda.html). Anyway, personally I am
>>really happy with BerliOS. Good support, nice people, many site
>>features.
>>
> Reliable?

Enough for me. They had one major crash this spring, but since then
services work as expected.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 17 14:07:11 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:07:11 -0700
Subject: Binding in Python
In-Reply-To: <web-11768754@infinito.it>
References: <web-11768754@infinito.it>
Message-ID: <20041017110602.0A01.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Can anyone tell me what are the binding strategies of this 
> language? How does the binding works in Python?
> 
> Please, help me, it's very important!
> Thanks in advance.
> Riccardo Rossi.

What do you mean by 'binding'?  Do you mean to ask how name binding
works, how attribute binding works, whether there are bindings to other
languages (like C), etc.?

Be precise with your question, as we are not mind readers.

 - Josiah



From tim.peters at gmail.com  Sat Oct  9 11:53:18 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:53:18 -0400
Subject: still not happy with unittest.failUnlessRaises
In-Reply-To: <2sqe4iF1o3pstU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2sqe4iF1o3pstU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041009085333da612c@mail.gmail.com>

[paul koelle]
> while I got my own errors kind of sorted out now (I think), unittest
> still not behaves like it should.
> 
> code:
> print 'this is expected to fail. The "Type" column is unique in the DB'

By "this is expected to fail", do you mean that the test is supposed
to fail, or that the test is supposed to pass by verifying that the
thing it's testing fails?  "This" is ambiguous.  I'll assume the
latter.

> self.failUnlessRaises(IntegrityError, self.failhelper(certs.Subcacert,
      self.ca_client_tmpl))

What you're actually testing here is that IntegrityError gets raised by

    temp()

where

    temp = self.failhelper(certs.Subcacert, self.ca_client_tmpl)

is evaluated outside the control of failUnlessRaises. 
failUnlessRaises *calls* its second argument.  If

    self.failhelper(certs.Subcacert, self.ca_client_tmpl)

on its own raises IntegrityError, and that's what you intended to
test, then you need to spell the test

    self.failUnlessRaises(IntegrityError, self.failhelper,
                                   certs.Subcacert, self.ca_client_tmpl)

You didn't show enough code so that a reader could guess the answers
to these questions.

> ...
> the docu (2.2) says:
> failUnlessRaises( exception, callable, ...)
> ...The test passes if exception is raised, is an error if another
> exception is raised, or fails if no exception is raised.

Yes.  Note that the second argument is a callable object, and the
'...' consists of arguments to pass to the callable.  So, e.g., the
test

    self.failUnlessRaises(ValueError, math.sqrt(-1))

fails, but the test

    self.failUnlessRaises(ValueError, math.sqrt, -1)

passes.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 21 13:49:14 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:49:14 -0700
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <8c7f10c604102102055baebbe4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20041021081356.GA12496@mylene.ghaering.de>
	<8c7f10c604102102055baebbe4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041021100142.0AAF.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> from sql import sql
> sqllite = sql.Engine()
> my_database = sqllite.Database('c:/mydatabese.db', 'user_id', 'password')
> 
> But you if you were using another engine, you'd only need to change this to:
> 
> from sql import sql
> from other_engine import other_engine
> other_database = sql.Engine(other_engine)
> my_database = other_database.Database('c:/myotherdatabese.db',
> 'user_id', 'password')

Remembering, of course, that other databases aren't file based like
sqlite.  Such a package would be neat though.

 - Josiah



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 16:23:09 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:23:09 -0700
Subject: Problem with logging module
In-Reply-To: <78406811.0410130851.5cf73a75@posting.google.com>
References: <78406811.0410130851.5cf73a75@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10mr3gih8ei3lad@corp.supernews.com>

Steve Erickson wrote:

>I have a logger class that uses the Python logging module.  When I
>call it within a program using the unittest module, I get one line in
>the log file for the first test, two identical ones for the second,
>etc.  I'm using local variables, which should go out of context with
>each test.  Setting the 'propagate' property to False doesn't have any
>affect.
>
>import logging, os, signal, sys
>from datetime import datetime
>
>class Logger:
>	def __init__(self, dir, name):
>		self.dir = dir
>		self.name = name
>
>		self.logger = logging.getLogger(name)
>		self.logger.propagate = False
>		handler = logging.FileHandler(dir + '/' + name + '.log')
>		self.logger.addHandler(handler)
>		self.logger.setLevel(logging.INFO)
>
>	def log(self, text):
>		msg = datetime.utcnow().isoformat(' ') + ' ' + sys.argv[0] + ' -- '
>+ text
>		self.logger.info(msg)
>  
>

As I understand it, logging uses internal (global/"static") data 
structures to keep track of all instantiated loggers.  Thus, each time 
you create an instance of your logger class, it gets the (pre-existing) 
logging.Logger instance named "test" and adds a *new* FileHandler to 
it.  Thus, you end up with an ever-growing list of (identical) handlers 
on the same logging.Logger instance.

You can fix this either by using a global log.Logger object, or by 
having a separate initialize() method for it that's called only once and 
which adds the handler and sets the logging level.

By the way, you can also set a formatter on the handler which will 
automatically include the time (and probably sys.argv[0] as well).  With 
that done, you could do away with your class.  Just initialize the 
logger once, and then in each test case, you can do

    logging.getLogger("test").info(text)

The logging module will keep track of all of the handler and formatting 
details for you.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From jbellis at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 00:13:52 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan  Ellis)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 21:13:52 -0700
Subject: sys.excepthook and threads
References: <mailman.1050303621.8837.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1096949632.187631.208160@k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com>

I'm running into the same problem Chuck did 1.5 years ago.  Can anyone
shed any light on why threads ignore sys.excepthook?  Is there a better
workaround than the following?  (prefixing whitespace with . to prevent
google from munching it)

import sys
from threading import Thread

def MyHandler(typ, exc, tb):
.   print 'caught exception'

run_old = getattr(Thread, 'run')
def run(self, *args, **kargs):
.   try:
.       run_old(self, *args, **kargs)
.   except:
.       MyHandler(*sys.exc_info())
setattr(Thread, 'run', run)

-Jonathan

Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> Is there a reason why sys.excepthook does not get invoked by threads
> (other than the main thread)?
>
> The program below does not output 'caught exception', but will if
> Raise() is called directly. Tested on Python 2.2.2 and 2.3a2. A quick

> search of c.l.p showed mention of this, but no explanation.  I'm just

> curious.
>
> BTW the docs for sys.excepthook don't mention this phenomena at all.
> They say "When an exception is raised and uncaught, the interpreter
> calls sys.excepthook with three arguments" so that's what I expected,

> threads or not.
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> def MyHandler(typ, exc, tb):
>     print 'caught exception'
>
> import sys
> sys.excepthook = MyHandler
>
> from threading import Thread
>
> def Raise():
>     assert 0
>
> if 1:
>     Thread(target=Raise).start()
> else:
>     Raise()
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> -- 
> Chuck
> http://ChuckEsterbrook.com



From indigo at bitglue.com  Fri Oct  8 17:07:43 2004
From: indigo at bitglue.com (Phil Frost)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:07:43 -0400
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <4166FF29.1000704@kzoo.edu>
References: <4166F64A.5080504@kzoo.edu> <20041008204409.GA5869@unununium.org>
	<4166FF29.1000704@kzoo.edu>
Message-ID: <20041008210743.GB7404@unununium.org>

On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 04:57:13PM -0400, dataangel wrote:
> Phil Frost wrote:
> 
> >^ is the bitwise xor operator. Performing bitwise operations on strings
> >doesn't make much sense, so it's invalid. You can define a logical xor
> >function like so:
> >
> >xor = lambda p, q: (p and not q) or (not p and q)
> >
> >or equivalently:
> >
> >xor = lambda p, q: bool(p) != bool(q)
> >
> >On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 04:19:22PM -0400, dataangel wrote:
> > 
> >
> >>I wrote a function to compare whether two strings are "similar" because 
> >>I'm using python to make a small text adventure engine and I want to it 
> >>to be responsive to slight mispellings, like "inevtory" and the like. To 
> >>save time the first thing my function does is check if I'm comparing an 
> >>empty vs. a non-empty string, because they are to be never considered 
> >>similar. Right now I have to write out the check like this:
> >>
> >>  if str1 and str2:
> >>      if not str1 or not str2:
> >>          return 0
> >>
> >>Because python won't let me do str1 ^ str2. Why does this only work for 
> >>numbers? Just treat empty strings as 0 and nonempty as 1.
> >>
> >>Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for detecting if 
> >>two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for strings shouldn't be 
> >>supported. Am I missing something? Inparticular, I think it'd be cool to 
> >>have "xor" as opposed to "^". The carrot would return the resulting 
> >>value, while "xor" would act like and/or do and return the one that was 
> >>true (if any).
>
>
> Urk, ran into a little trouble with your code (the first one):
> 
> >>> xor("", "") == False
> False
> >>> xor("", "") == True
> False
> 
> I'm a python newbie so I'm not sure how something can niether evaluate 
> to be true nor false at the same time :P Bug?


Sorry, I didn't read your problem well enough. False xor False == False
by definition; the problem is that xor is not what you want. In your
example:

if str1 and str2:
  if not str1 or not str2:
    return 0

"return 0" will never be reached. In order for "str1 and str2" to be
true, both strings must be not empty. Your test within that, "if not
str1 or not str2" says "if either string is empty...", which isn't
possible, since you just tested that neither is empty. What you probably
want is this:

if not (str1 and str2):
  # at least one string is empty


From erik at heneryd.com  Fri Oct 22 22:46:54 2004
From: erik at heneryd.com (Erik Heneryd)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 04:46:54 +0200
Subject: Connecting to IRC using socket module
In-Reply-To: <002801c4b871$3119dbd0$4e01a8c0@dagan>
References: <002801c4b871$3119dbd0$4e01a8c0@dagan>
Message-ID: <4179C61E.9040008@heneryd.com>

Dag Hansteen wrote:
> Hello!
>  
> Somehow I dont make this work, can anyone please
> correct me?

Short answer: IRC expects messages to be terminated with "\r\n".
Some additional comments on your code below.

>  
> There is no error, but it just kinda halts after I get "NOTICE AUTH: *** 
> Found your hostname", I assume theres something with the PONG reply, but 
> I can't figure it out.
>  
>  
> # CODE:
>  
> from socket import *
>  
> host = "oslo.no.eu.undernet.org"
> port = 6667
> buf = 1024
> addr = (host, port)
>  
> first = 'NICK dagan'
> second = 'USER dag "" "oslo.no.eu.undernet.org" :python bot'

IRC uses "\r\n" as message terminator, you forgot those.

Also note that you're not supposed to "-quote message parameters.  Not 
that it matters here since USER params 2 and 3 are ignored anyway - the 
ircd knows what hostname it has and will do a DNS lookup to determine 
yours.  Furthermore, RFC1459 and RFC2812 don't even agree on what USER 
param 2 and 3 mean.  I'd say you can safely use * (asterisk) for both of 
them.

>  
> sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
>  
> 
> sock.connect(addr)
> sock.sendto(first, addr)
> print "-> "+first

Why do you use sendto on a TCP socket?  Use send.

>  
> sock.sendto(second, addr)
> print "-> "+second
>  
> 
> while 1:
>     data, addr = sock.recvfrom(buf)

Why do you use recvfrom on a TCP socket?  Use recv.
Be aware that you might get two or more messages in one go...

>    
>     f = open("debug.txt", "w")
>     f.write(data+"\n")
>    
>     if data.startswith("PING :"):

Be aware that the param might not be :-quoted...

>         sock.send("PONG :"+data[6:])
>         break
>    
>     else:    
>         print "<- "+data
>         print addr
>  
> print "I hope I soon will see this message.. yes, this message! woohoo"
>  
> sock.send("join #scripting")

It's JOIN, not join.

>  
> while 1:
>     data, addr = sock.recvfrom(buf)
>     print "<- "+data
> 


Erik


From balaji at email.arizona.edu  Tue Oct 26 18:10:14 2004
From: balaji at email.arizona.edu (Balaji)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 15:10:14 -0700
Subject: Interpretor.
Message-ID: <494182a9.0410261410.43cd5226@posting.google.com>

Hello Everyone....

I have created a simple GUI using wx python. Its an simple editor...

Now what I want to do is pass the contents of this editor and receive
solution from python.

Suppose in the editor if I say x=2 and y=3 and then x+y I should get
back the solution.

In general i want to build an simple interpretor..

Any ideas....

Balaji


From ktenney at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 07:17:25 2004
From: ktenney at gmail.com (ktenney at gmail.com)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 04:17:25 -0700
Subject: GUI to browse and select images
Message-ID: <1096715845.204540.281600@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>

Howdy,

I've written some code which manipulates images,
now I want an interface for choosing images.

I'm curious what people might recommend as the
easiest way framework to do the following:

- present a (directory) view, with images represented
by thumbnails

- provide structure for selecting images

- provide structure for choosing manipulations
to send the selected images to. (the selected
image file name(s) become paramaters to functions)

Thanks,
Kent



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Mon Oct 18 12:35:51 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:35:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<2ti8djF1vm4hiU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cl0rd7$m76$2@fred.mathworks.com>

Oliver Fromme <olli at haluter.fromme.com> wrote:
...
>  > > > > def foo(a): a = 1
>  > ...
>  > > > > i = 10
>  > > > > foo(i)
>  > > > > print i
>  > 
>  > With pass-by-reference, i would now be 1.  However, since python is
>  > pass-by-value, it remains 10.

> It remains 10 because integers are immutable, so the function
> code cannot modify the caller's variable anyway.  However, if
> you pass a mutable variable, things look a little different:

It doesn't matter that integers are immutable.  Rebinding formal
parameters cannot change variables in the callers scope.

>>>> def foo(a): a[0] = 1
> ...
>>>> i = [10]
>>>> foo(i)
>>>> print i
> [1]

In this case, you're dereferencing the list (I'm using pointer-
terminolgy, but I'm still talking about the behavior of the language,
not its implemenation).  You're basically modifying the object passed
into the function, not rebinding a variable.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 20 05:50:51 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:50:51 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<tyfsm8b9kqm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1glxal0.rxjtsr1pbf0guN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfoeixycsh.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1glyd70.1bwulqk17xnrcrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
   ...
> > > def doesThisLanguageBindByValue(language):
> > >     a = 'original'
> > >     b = a
> > >     b = 'new'
> > >     if a == 'original':
> > >         print "%s assigns by value" % (language)
> > >     else:
> > >         print "%s does not assigns by value" % (language)
   ...
> > Can you give some examples of languages which would end up in the else
> > branch?
> 
> Sure. Here it is in C++:
   ...
>   std::string  a = "original";
>   std::string& b = a;

Ah, references, of course.  And you need to make the two "b =" bits
drastically different in meaning, taking advantage of the fact that C++
overloads = to mean both initialization/construction and assignment;
that's not quite cheating but it sure bends the rules;-).

And after all this, the message "C++ does not assign by value" is false,
because it sure does, under many (most!-) circumstances.  You'd need to
rephrase this as "under at least some circumstances, C++ does assign
not-by-value" or the like.

To remove the need to bend the rules, and have both "b =" be
assignments, you do need a peculiar type for b, such as (untested and
I'm rusty in C++, so take it w/a grain of salt):

class sly {
private:
    std::string *p;
public:
    sly() { p=0; }
    std::string& operator=(std::string& x) {
        if(p) (*p)=x;
        else p=&x;
    }
};

Here, the first assignment to b (declared as 'sly b;') follows the else
branch of operator=, initializing p; following ones follow the if
branch, altering whatever p is holding on to.
((Not sure operator= as written will accept an '= "new";' assignment,
but if not that could be easily cured by overloading operator= with a
variant taking a const std::string&)).

OK, so there are languages which have reference-variables or let you
build such beasts -- as I recall the first one was Algol 68.  But
"(language) does not assign by value" should be true only for languages
that do NOT assign by value, as opposed to ones which may have several
kinds of assignments...


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 15 03:45:12 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:45:12 +0200
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
References: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gljwcn.hu8qmfo9di8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416E15CA.9680C6A3@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gln4dz.eajljp1mwfqx3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416ec33b.258821255@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1gloxoj.1f9z21114b9tmrN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:

> Unfortunately, I am still frustrated, because there seems no way (other
> than looking in sources) to discover a method whose name you don't know
> ahead of time. You can just determine the order of access to known-name
> methods. So I'm still looking for the magic metaclass formula that can
> reveal the search for unknown methods. Maybe we need a sys._getattrhook
> that could monitor operation-induced searching?

I assume you're talking about types, aka newstyle classes, because for
oldstyle ones __getattr__ does get into play.

Now, the problem is as follows: no searching, stricto sensu, is induced
by an operation, in most cases.  Rather, *when the type is built* some
code is responsible for filling out a C-level structure, the 'type'
struct, which mostly holds 'slots' which are pointers to C functions.
This "phase 0" is the time when some special method names may be checked
for, in the class dictionary and bases, in order to determine what to
place in the slots (a null pointer, a pointer to a C function which will
call the appropriate Python function, whatever).

What the operation induces, call it "phase 1", is one or a few checks
regarding those C pointers and sometimes after one is used for a call a
check for NonImplemented as a return value to determine whether to keep
checking.  Typically no Python names are involved during phase 1 (the
main exception being classic classes, which are singled out for special
and more complicated treatment for backwards compatibility purposes).

((There may be a "phase 2" when you modify a class object, in which some
slots in the C-level structure are altered; but I don't see any way,
even conceptually, to exploit this for "fishing for unknown names")).

By writing a custom metaclass you may alter phase 0, but being able to
alter a certain complicated processing need not mean you can easily
introspect it.  If the slot-filling process was altered to accept and
fully support any mapping in lieu of the class dict, you could thus get
the information about all the names that the slot-filling is looking for
(not necessarily how the presence of such names affects what slots, but
still you might use the bare info on names to inject artificially
constructed methods or other descriptors which later provide some
tracing information, perhaps).

Thinking about phase 1, the best architecture I can imagine for that
involves a C extension which, given a type object, instruments all of
its relevant slots, wrapping each C function it finds with a hook-caller
that is called for the specific purpose of providing tracing information
or other aspect-oriented before/after hooking.

I would assess the amount of work required for either or both projects
as non-trivial, particularly if one wants to do it in such a way as to
not impact performance (so it can stay in some future released Python,
maybe 2.5).  It also appears to inevitably involve some reasonably deep
tinkering with internals that are currently coded in C.  Of all the
separate aspects involved, the one with potentially highest return would
appear to me to be the ability to use any mapping, not just a dict --
that one might perhaps provide other benefits, once in place.  It can be
done without excessive performance penalty by acting similarly to the
implementation of the STORE_LOCAL opcode (I'm not sure how you could
ever get the 'locals dict' of the current frame to be anything but a
real dict at the time a STORE_LOCAL executes, but, if you manage that,
STORE_LOCAL's implementation *is* coded to [a] specialcase dict first
for speed, [b] fallback to more abstract setitem if the locals of the
current frame are not exactly a dict, i.e. if they're an instance of any
dict subclass or anything else whatsoever).

On a parallel thread (about "reimplementing Python"), I'm pointing out
one potential advantage of rewriting an existing project in a higher
level language: tinkering and experimentation such as this becomes way
easier.  The specific project I'm involved with, pypy, also enables the
tinkerer to know (just about) only Python, not necessitating other
programming languages (well, pyrex would still help for some of the
kinds of tinkering one might want, and so might machine language and
even, in-between, C or Common Lisp; but mucho tinkering could be done at
a purely Python level, if pypy matures and consolidates as we hope).


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 02:13:19 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:13:19 +0200
Subject: How can I make an existing object read-only?
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Eli Stevens (WG.c) <listsub at wickedgrey.com> wrote:
   ...
>      def ReadWrite(self):
>          print "ReadWrite"
>          self._CurrentState__setattr__ = self._readWriteSetattr
> 
>      def ReadOnly(self):
>          print "ReadOnly"
>          self._CurrentState__setattr__ = self._readOnlySetattr
> 
>      def __setattr__(self, name, value):
>          self._CurrentState__setattr__(name, value)
   ...
>          self.__setattr__ = self._readOnlySetattr
> 
> Doesn't DWIM.  ;)  Hence the _CurrentState__setattr__ hack.  Is this 
> pythonic?  Dunno.  Thoughts?
> 
> I also don't know which would be faster between the proxy and having an
> extra level of indirection in __setattr__.  I would guess it would 
> depend on if you do more reads or writes in the tight loops.  If your
> code is read-heavy, this might actually be a win.
> 
> Of course, if you are _really_ concerned with performance, you might 
> just turn the whole protection thing off when in production.

...or implement it by changing the object's *class*...:

class RO_class(TrueClass):
    def makeReadWrite(self): self.__class__ = TrueClass
    def __setattr__(self, n, v=''): raise AttributeError, n
    __delattr__ = __setattr__

def makeReadOnly(obj): obj.__class__ = RO_class

This is a very Pythonic approach to dealing with an object that exists
in two 'states', each rather persistent and with different behavior; it
is better performing and neater than using an obj._state and having 'if
self._state: ... else: ...' statements strewn around.

Your approach (switching boundmethods instead of a passive state flag or
the class itself) is somewhere in-between -- it may require indirection
when special methods are involved (since, in the new object model,
Python looks special methods up per-class, not per-instance), it may
require switching more than one method (more flexible if needed, but
otherwise boilerplatey if you always switch methods as a group).

As I recall, the early prototypes for the new object model (pre-release
2.2's) had obj.__class__ as read-only; it was changed to read/write
specifically to enable this idiom -- a fact which appears to me to
support the contention that this IS a highly Pythonic approach, not just
a hack which accidentally happens to work...


Alex


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Mon Oct 11 15:20:45 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:20:45 GMT
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>

Jeff Shannon ha scritto:

Let me say that all of this is in a big IMO block. Oh, and sorry for the 
triple post, thunderbird got mad.

> Except that one of the design principles of Python is that it being easy 
> to *read* is more important than being easy to write, with the 
> assumption that much of the code that one reads will be code written by 
> someone else.  I do care how readable your code is, because (at least in 
> principle) someday I may need to maintain it.  ("If you don't like X, 
> don't use it, but let others use it if they like" seems to be much more 
> Perlish than Pythonic, at least IMHO.)


I agree on the perlish thinking of 'some more feature you can avoid are 
good'. But lambdas are a concept that can be (and actually is) used for 
a lot of things where it is better than others.

> Lambdas are hard to read, because they're significantly different, 
> syntactically, from any other construct in the language -- it's not that 
> I'm _unwilling_ to learn, it's that it is actively *difficult* to learn 
> because it doesn't fit well, conceptually, into the rest of the 
> language, so there's a mental impedance barrier that must be overcome.  

IMO the problem is just that lambda is an onion (citing paul graham that 
cites primo levi google for the explanation). It is a remnant of 
academic computer science.

Would you like to have it like:
func arg1,arg2: arg1+arg2
?

Again, IMO the point is: once people explain this to you, would you find 
hard it to understand or read a lambda once you find them again?
Is this different from the strangeness of array literals or generator 
expression/LC ?

> In order to explain lambdas to someone who is not already familiar with 
> them, you have to explain first that it's kind of like a function def, 
> except that it uses totally different syntax (aren't function defs 
> supposed to use parens?), and you don't explicitly return anything even 
> though it *does* return a value, and oh yes, you can't actually use 
> statements because it has to be a single expression (and then you get to 
> explain the difference between statements and expressions, and explain 
> *why* there's a difference and that it really is a good thing)...   

then what you want is a better lambda. One where you can use return, 
maybe, and  where you can have statements and multiple expressions.
Don't throw away the baby with the bathwater.


> That's a lot of special treatment for those cases where there actually 
> might be a slight advantage to using an anonymous function, and "Special 
> cases aren't special enough to break the rules."  Lambdas *do* break 
> many of Python's usual rules.
> 

Just because you're thinking of lambdas as special cases. Whenever a 
case is very useful it is possible to break the rules. That's why there 
are all those funny literals.


From anthony.briggs at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 10:02:22 2004
From: anthony.briggs at gmail.com (Anthony)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:02:22 -0400
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
In-Reply-To: <rowen-643489.15583428102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<clnnsa$b88$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
	<8249c4ac.0410281110.39d68dc2@posting.google.com>
	<rowen-643489.15583428102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <53271620041029070219dae538@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:58:34 -0700, Russell E. Owen <rowen at cesmail.net> wrote:
>>>>os.popen3(r"C:\Program\ Files\ds9\ds9")
> 
> I find this fails the same way as  not using r"..." and doubling the
> backslashes. Windows thinks the path to the executable stops at the
> space. (I tried os.popen3(r"C:\Program Files\ds9\ds9") and the less
> likely variant os.popen3(r"C:\Program\ Files\ds9\ds9"))

Have you tried a wildcard? ie. something like:

os.popen3(r"C:\Program*\ds9\ds9"))

Bit of a hack though :)

Anthony

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------
 HyPEraCtiVE? HeY, WhO aRE YoU cALliNg HypERaCtIve?!
 aNthONy.BrIGgS at gmAiL.CoM
-----------------------------------------------------


From onurb at xiludom.gro  Sun Oct 17 13:26:35 2004
From: onurb at xiludom.gro (bruno modulix)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:26:35 +0200
Subject: How to deal __getattr__
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5034.1097907251.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <505f13c04101522596d9ea6e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.5034.1097907251.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4172a946$0$29873$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

limodou a ?crit :
(please don't top-post -- fixed)

> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:59:11 +0800, limodou <limodou at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>I found it puzzled me that:
>>
>>class A:
>>   def __getattr__(self, name):
>>       return None
>>a=A()
>>b=A()
>>a==b will raise Exception:
>>
>>__eq__
>>
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>>   a==b
>>TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
>>
>>I want to compare the objects themself not the attributes of them. 
(snip)
>>
 > I resolved the problem via defining __eq__method, just like:
 >
 >>>>class A:
 >
 > 	def __getattr__(self, name):
 > 		print name
 > 		return None
 > 	def __eq__(self, obj):
 > 		return id(self) == id(obj)
 >
 >
 >>>>a=A()
 >>>>b=A()
 >>>>a==b
 >
 > False
 >
 > I don't know whether it's the right solution, any ideas?

You've already got the answer, thanks to Andrew Dalke.

Now I may be wrong, but it seems that you are confusing equality and 
identity. The first is about testing if two objects have the same value, 
the second about knowing if two symbols are bound to the same object. 
There may of course be cases where the two concepts overlaps, and the 
default behavior for equality test is to test identity -- which is quite 
sensible since the language can't guess the semantic of your objects !-).

If you want to test for identity (ie 'are symbols foo and bar bound to 
the same object), the operator to use is 'is' :

class Foo:
     def __init__(self, name):
         self.name = name
foo = Foo('baaz')
bar = Foo('baaz')
a is b
->False

The __eq__ magic method should be used to override default 'identity as 
equality' behavior by providing your own value test:

class Bak(Foo):
     def __eq__(self, other):
         if hasattr(other, name):
             return self.name == other.name
         else:
             return False
bak = Bak('baaz')
bak == foo
->True
bak == bar
->True
bak is bar
->False

You may want to have a look at the fine manual, here
http://docs.python.org/ref/comparisons.html
and here
http://docs.python.org/ref/customization.html

(please someone correct me if I said any stupiditie)

Bruno


From cjankowski at hbr-inc.com  Tue Oct 19 13:55:52 2004
From: cjankowski at hbr-inc.com (Chris Jankowski)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 10:55:52 -0700
Subject: Pointer to Image
References: <a1301a8e.0410190637.74a091ad@posting.google.com>
	<0b2dnZuKKYrdtujcRVn-ig@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <a1301a8e.0410190955.a2940ac@posting.google.com>

Larry Bates <lbates at syscononline.com> wrote in message news:<0b2dnZuKKYrdtujcRVn-ig at comcast.com>...
> Chris Jankowski wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I am still new to using Python, so bare with me.  I am trying to call
> > a DLL from my program to use some of it's functions.  The only
> > parameter is supposed to be a pointer to an image.  I have tried
> > several variations on passing this parameter to the DLL and I am not
> > having much luck.  This is going to call other functions later for
> > OCR, but I want to get a simple one working first.
> > 
> > Here is my code:  (Very basic)
> > 
> > from ctypes import *
> > import Image
> > 
> > myOcr = windll.LoadLibrary('ocrdll.dll') # my DLL
> > 
> > mySize = myOcr.GetImgBitmapSize ## load the function
> > 
> > im = Image.open('C:\\chris.tif') ## load the Image
> > print id(im)  ## for testing print address of im
> > 
> > ##myFile = c_char_p(id(im))  # I have tried several variations of this
> > 
> > x = mySize(myFile)  ##  Actual call to the DLL Function
> >                     ##  documentation only one parameter passed
> > pointer to Image
> >                     ##  Must be DIB Image(Device Independent Bitmap)
> >                     ##  (could this be the problem?)
> > Thanks for the help.
> > 
> > Chris J.
> 
> Can you supply any docs on the ocrdll.dll API (e.g example C
> code or function/parameter documentation)?  I've interfaced
> with ExperVision's OCR RTK Toolkit via calls to their .DLL
> but it looks like you are using something different.
> 
> -Larry

Here is the website with the documentation.

http://www.simpleocr.com/Help.asp

There are two .DLL files needed 
ocrdll.dll
Dllwain.dll

please let me know if there is anything else.


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Wed Oct 13 18:34:50 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 22:34:50 GMT
Subject: calling another script
Message-ID: <20041013183450.29660.00005863@mb-m16.aol.com>

This is in reference to my email project, I'd like to be able to call another
script to display html.  I have written something for that with WxHTML called
Viewer, I'm wanting to know how I go about making it so I could do something
like Import Viewer *, and then call the other script's methods from within my
original script


From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Sat Oct 30 13:39:28 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:39:28 +0300
Subject: Enumerate question: Inner looping like in Perl
Message-ID: <4183d256$0$3665$39db0f71@news.song.fi>

Hi,

I have Perl code looping thru lines in the file:

line: while (<INFILE>) {
	...
	$_ = do something
	...
	if (/#START/) {
		# Start inner loop
		while (<INFILE>) {
                     if (/#END/) {
                         next line;
		    }
		}
	}
	if (/#BLAH1/) {
		$_ = do something
	}
	if (/#BLAH2/) {
		$_ = do something
	}
}


I decided to use enumerate() in my Python version
since current line must be modified (the $_ = idiom in Perl)

---code starts---

fh = codecs.open(f_path, "rU", "utf-8")
contents = fh.readlines()
fh.close()

# Precompile regular expressions (speed hack?)
findSTART = r'#START'
matcherSTART = re.compile(findSTART, re.UNICODE)
findEND = r'#END'
matcherEND = re.compile(findEND, re.UNICODE)


for i, row in enumerate(contents):
	row[i] = something
	if matcherSTART.search(row):
		"Oops! how to advance 'i' and 'row' untill:
		if matcherEND.search(row):
			continue

---code ends---

I could create extra parameter to store the state of the loop like:

foundSTART = False
for i, row in enumerate(contents):
	if foundSTART:
		if not matcherEND.search(row):
			continue
		else:
			foundSTART = False
	else:
		if matcherSTART.search(row):
			foundSTART = True
		if foundBLAH1:
			row[i] = something
		if foundBLAH2:
			row[i] = something

but is this it really more maintainable code?

Is there enumerate() hack that I am missing or
should I go back to idiom?:

for i in range(len(contents)):
	if matcherSTART.search(row[i]):
		while not matcherEND.search(row[i]):
			i = i + 1
			continue


-pekka-


From a-steinhoff at web.de  Sat Oct  2 05:50:25 2004
From: a-steinhoff at web.de (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:50:25 +0200
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <cjltj9$m79$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Wolfgang Keller wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> is it that my know-how to use Google is insufficient or...
> 
> ...does really noone use Python for industrial control applications?
> 
> At least I didn't manage to find any publicly available modules for such
> things as OPC/fieldbus communication etc...

I believe you are talking about the OPC version based 0n COM / DCOM ... 
but there is in the meantime a SOAP based version called OPC XML defined.

SOAP and XML support are available for Python ... who will implement
OPC XML for Python ??

Best Regards

   Armin Steinhoff

   http://www.steinhoff-automation.com


> 
> TIA,
> 
> best regards,
> 
> Wolfgang Keller


From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Fri Oct 22 06:51:13 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:51:13 +0200
Subject: Installing Python on a fileserver
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5303.1098434586.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5303.1098434586.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <claon2$2bi$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Marco Aschwanden wrote:
> I am as well using other packages like wxWindows... anything to consider 
> there?

Make sure that all DLLs are copied to the directory containing 
python.exe. Some DLLs (like those from wxWindows) are copied do 
%SYSTEMROOT% by default.

> Are there special precautions on the client machines? Hopefully not. 
> (Paths? Dlls?)

No. Python finds the files relative to python.exe, so it's not necessary 
to enter somethhing into the registry.

> Special considerations on using shortcuts to start the app?

If you have batch files on the share to start your application, make 
sure that they contain the full network path to python.exe and the 
script. At least earlier versions of cmd.exe would complaint that they 
couldn't set the current directory to a network share. This is only a 
problem if the share isn't connected as a drive, but accessed with 
\\NETWORK notation.

Daniel


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Oct 15 05:37:46 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:37:46 +0200
Subject: Easy web session module with Python?
References: <416df772$0$3947$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
	<416f90e7$0$25592$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.15.09.37.46.187048@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:57:11 +1000 schrieb Johnathan Doe:

> Thanks guys for your replies!  That was really helpful.  Looks like I 
> need a bit more time to study everything available for Python.  You 
> know, I wonder why Python doesn't have more "native" web development 
> infrastructure like PHP.  I think (abviously so do zillions of others) 
> that Python is a beautiful and usable language, and I reckon that this 
> issue of some kind of standard web dev module is holding back its 
> popularity.  It could be at least a few orders of magnitude more popular 
> than PHP if it was heavy in web development infrastructure.


Hi,

Yes, it would be nice if there was *one* standard way.
Quixote is very small and simple. Other libraries could
be build on top of it, using the simple API.

Thomas



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Thu Oct 28 16:11:48 2004
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:11:48 -0700
Subject: quick regex question
In-Reply-To: <20041028192859.GC2184@utoronto.ca>
References: <20041028164648.GA32572@utoronto.ca>
	<clrddj$vq1$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<20041028192859.GC2184@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <200410281311.48772.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

> > >> "".join("string with spaces".title().split())
> >
> > 'StringWithSpaces'
>
> wow, that is really elegant.  thank you both.

Yes, elegant.

 > > suggestion anyway (not everything really merits a regex) =)

Unfortunately true. However, as regex is fun...

s/(^|\s)+(\S)/\u$2/g

(Perl. I think the translation to Python is trivial...but not as unreadable.)

James

On Thursday 28 October 2004 12:28 pm, Matt Price wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 08:23:23PM +0200, Peter Otten wrote:
> > Steven Bethard wrote:
> > > Matt Price <matt.price <at> utoronto.ca> writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > I know you asked for a regex solution, but I thought I'd drop this
> > > suggestion anyway (not everything really merits a regex) =)
> >
> > I second that :-)
> >
> > >>>> string1 = 'string with spaces'
> > >>>> ''.join([s.title() for s in string1.split()])
> > >
> > > 'StringWithSpaces'
> >
> > Or, without the list comprehension:
> > >>> "".join("string with spaces".title().split())
> >
> > 'StringWithSpaces'
>
> wow, that is really elegant.  thank you both.
>
> matt
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Matt Price	    matt.price at utoronto.ca
> History Department, University of Toronto
> (416) 978-2094
> --------------------------------------------
>
> please don't use the following addresses:  zeus at derailleur.org
> aardvark at derailleur.org

-- 
James Stroud, Ph.D.
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
611 Charles E. Young Dr. S.
MBI 205, UCLA 951570
Los Angeles CA 90095-1570
http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From amk at amk.ca  Fri Oct 22 12:21:53 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:21:53 -0500
Subject: symbolic mathematics in python
References: <mailman.5327.1098461501.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6ZadnQf4ruE8ruTcRVn-rg@speakeasy.net>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:11:32 -0400, 
	Neal D. Becker <ndbecker2 at verizon.net> wrote:
> """All computer languages must evolve to the point that they implement
> symbolic mathematics"""
>
> So, has anyone worked on this in python?

See http://www.strout.net/python/pythonica.html for one attempt.

--amk


From abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Wed Oct 13 02:30:59 2004
From: abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Ajay)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:30:59 +1000
Subject: windows
Message-ID: <1097649059.416ccba3c119b@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>

hi!

i have two tkinter windows on top of each other. i would like it so that
the user has to complete the fields in the top windows before they can
interact with the window below it. that is, i dont want the user to close
the top window or minimize it or send it into the background.

how would i do it?

thanks

cheers






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This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From carl.scharenberg at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 16:18:25 2004
From: carl.scharenberg at gmail.com (Carl Scharenberg)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 13:18:25 -0700
Subject: Establishing a p2p connection in python
References: <a50cee44.0410080026.30cf04f0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e930c085.0410111218.6f3ab174@posting.google.com>

gs.lists at gmail.com (gs) wrote in message news:<a50cee44.0410080026.30cf04f0 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi!
> 
> This is my first time posting to a newsgroup so please be gentle to me
> :)
> 
> Introduction to my problem:
> 
> I'm studying at the university and a lot of friends and I use MSN to
> communicate. The problem is that MSN file sending/receiving
> capabilities are terribly slow and has no resume option. We're also on
> different subnets and can not access eachoters computers through smb
> shares, nor can we have local ftp-servers.
> 
<snip> 

You might look into the Waste p2p software. It is a p2p program that
uses RSA encryption and requires manual addition of nodes, I believe.
So you can use it to create a private p2p network. It might work for
you, or at least give you some ideas in terms of security features and
such.


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 13 01:33:09 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 05:33:09 GMT
Subject: Ok, I'm quite new to Python
References: <ckhrcs$g92$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <416cb84f.124953463@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:03:41 +0000 (UTC), "Michael" <slick_mick_00 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>But i'm a good c++ programmer.
>
>What i want to do is parse a text file and store the information in relevant
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[1]  ^^^^^[2]  ^^^^^^^^^^^[3] ^^^^^^^^-
>fields:
 -^^^^^[4]
[1] ok
[2] where?
[3] which
[4] relevant to what?
[5] ;-)
>
>//Text File:
>
>*Version 200
>*SCENE {
>    AMBIENT_COLOUR    0.0 0.0 0.0
>                }
>
>*MATERIAL_LIST{
>    *MATERIAL_COUNT 0
>    }
>*GEOMOBJECT {
>    *NODE_NAME "obj1"
>    *MESH {
>        *MESH_VERTEX_LIST{
>            *MESH_VERTEX    0    0 0 0
>            *MESH_VERTEX    1    0 1 2
>                        }
>        *MESH_FACE_LIST {
>            *MESH_FACE    1    2    3
>                        }
>                    }
>        }
>/* ... More GEOMOBJECTS ...*/
>
>
>but I have no idea what the best way to do this is?
                                         ^^^^^^^[1]
[1] do what?
>Any thoughts??
>
Id probably start eith stripping out the tokens with a regular expression
and then process the list to build a tree that you can then walk? To start:

 >>> data = """\
 ... *Version 200
 ... *SCENE {
 ...     AMBIENT_COLOUR    0.0 0.0 0.0
 ...                 }
 ...
 ... *MATERIAL_LIST{
 ...     *MATERIAL_COUNT 0
 ...     }
 ... *GEOMOBJECT {
 ...     *NODE_NAME "obj1"
 ...     *MESH {
 ...         *MESH_VERTEX_LIST{
 ...             *MESH_VERTEX    0    0 0 0
 ...             *MESH_VERTEX    1    0 1 2
 ...                         }
 ...         *MESH_FACE_LIST {
 ...             *MESH_FACE    1    2    3
 ...                         }
 ...                     }
 ...         }
 ... """

 >>> import re
 >>> rxs = re.compile(r'([{}]|"[^"]*"|[*A-Z_a-z]+|[0-9.]+)')
 >>> tokens = rxs.findall(data)
 >>> tokens
 ['*Version', '200', '*SCENE', '{', 'AMBIENT_COLOUR', '0.0', '0.0', '0.0', '}', '*MATERIAL_LIST',
  '{', '*MATERIAL_COUNT', '0', '}', '*GEOMOBJECT', '{', '*NODE_NAME', '"obj1"', '*MESH', '{', '*M
 ESH_VERTEX_LIST', '{', '*MESH_VERTEX', '0', '0', '0', '0', '*MESH_VERTEX', '1', '0', '1', '2', '
 }', '*MESH_FACE_LIST', '{', '*MESH_FACE', '1', '2', '3', '}', '}', '}']

IWT that isolates the basic info of interest. It should not be hard to make a tree or
extract what suits your purposes, but I'm not going to guess what those are ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 17:22:08 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:22:08 -0300
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
In-Reply-To: <20041019195431.GD21693@performancedrivers.com>
References: <mailman.5138.1098132727.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl2ldp$p5o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5179.1098204696.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.5184.1098208437.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl3mgv$i24$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1glx9uk.19y2l5yvlo403N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<20041019195431.GD21693@performancedrivers.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041019142269041ac5@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:54:31 -0400, Jack Diederich
<jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 09:30:31PM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> >    ...
> > > >>iavailable = chain(stock, starmap(random.random, repeat(())))
> >    ...
> > > No, you cannot pass a callable to repeat() and have it called. In the above
> > > line repeat(()) yields the same empty tuple ad infinitum. The trick is that
> > > starmap() calls random.random() with that empty tuple as the argument list,
> >
> > Stylistically, I prefer
> >     iter(random.random, None)
> > using the 2-args form of the built-in iter, to
> >     itertools.starmap(random.random, itertools.repeat(()))
> >
> > kallisti:~/cb alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import random, itertools as it'
> \ > 'list(it.islice(it.starmap(random.random, it.repeat(())), 666))'
> 
> unrelated, I also often import itertools as 'it'.  It bothers me because
> I do it frequently (grep says 25 of 97 modules).  Moving all of itertools into
> builtins seems like overkill, but could we hang them off the 'iter' builtin?
> Making the above:
> 
> > kallisti:~/cb alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import random'
> \ > 'list(iter.islice(iter.starmap(random.random, iter.repeat(())), 666))'
> 
> My life would definitely get easier, no more assuming 'it' is imported and
> then adding the import when I find out differently.
> 
> A quick dir() of iter shows no conflicts.
> >>> dir(iter)
> ['__call__', '__class__', '__cmp__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__name__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__self__', '__setattr__', '__str__']

Just wondering, but maybe this idea could be generalized to reduce the
(ever growing) cluttering of the builtins namespace. I'm not sure
about the side effects though. The basic idea is that one would still
import the itertools module (under the name iter, in this example):

import iter

...and then it get both iter(), and all iter.<something> methods.

It's actually possible to do some similar things right now; for
example, the str builtin allows one to access all string methods. Is
there any 'showstopper' for this generalization? I don't know if a
module can have a __call__ method, but it seems to be something
interesting to explore...

Just curious, and sincerely, haven't checked it anywhere...


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From z at b.com  Fri Oct 22 19:09:23 2004
From: z at b.com (JZ)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:09:23 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1awush1lkmr26.utqa0xkprp0m$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<mailman.5343.1098480193.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1tnjlnulfur4z$.125mtrgjlalvp$.dlg@40tude.net>

Dnia Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:22:53 -0700, Cliff Wells napisa?(a):

> First of all, more powerful wasn't the main criteria and easier to use
> is arguable depending on your point of view.

Hmm, so what's the main criteria? :)

> Smarty strikes a fine balance between power and simplicity.  

It is your personal point of view. Many others consider Smarty for hard to
learn and much too complicated for template system which should be simple
and easy to learn. PHP is itself a template language, so someone could say
there is no need for another template language on top of it. :) Look at
Savant Template System http://phpsavant.com/yawiki/. There are interesting
user notes. Many people seems to be frustrated with Smarty syntax.

But my personal point of view is, that Smarty is the best PHP template
system and it is worth to learn it even if it is not as simple as someone
could expect. I have no problem with Smarty's syntax because I use it for
several years. And if I would have to use PHP I would choose Smarty.

But, the problem is PHP itself has so many bad features that I prefer
rather Python to PHP. And I like Cheetah's inheritence aproach because it
is scales very well for complicated web pages. I can develop internet
application much faster using Python (e.g. using application, very cool and
pythonic Cherry2) and Cheetah. And because extending templates using OO
techniques is tthe feature I like, I would rather choose Cheetach than ZPT,
SimleTAL, Nevow and similar solutions.

> This is where I feel most of the Python templating engines fall down.  
> They try to do too much.

It is not fair to compare one Smarty against several anonymous template
systems for Python. I compare Smarty with Cheetah. Not Cheetah against
PHPLib, and all other better or worse templates for PHP.

> Smarty [...] provides a way to extend itself with custom functions,

Savant Templates provides custom plugins using only pure PHP without
another, strange language. :) Savant has markup compiler, so you can invent
any markup system you like.

> My personal feeling on templates is that if you find yourself needing
> very powerful features, you're doing it wrong.

No. I need power and simplicity working together. And my choice is Cheetah.
It has power and it is enough simple to be easy learned.

Regards,
Jarek http://zabiello.com


From rroberts at adobe.com  Fri Oct  8 01:33:05 2004
From: rroberts at adobe.com (Read Roberts)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:33:05 -0700
Subject: Problem with tkFileDialog.askdirectory(), Windows,
	and non-ascii paths
Message-ID: <p0602040abd8bd58917da@[192.168.1.100]>

I have the current Windows binary install of Python 2.3.4 on my 
Windows XP system.

I am pained to discover that  tkFileDialog.askdirectory() returns  a 
mangled path when a directory is selected which has non-ascii Unicode 
path, as in Kanji characters, i.e. the usull "????" in place of the 
original UTF-8 code points.  .

After some time spent Google'ing. I don't find a discussion of this. 
Is there some option  or configuration change I can make to fix this? 
I can roll my own file-dialog , but I prefer to re-use code.


From james.frohnhofer at csfb.com  Tue Oct 19 09:56:33 2004
From: james.frohnhofer at csfb.com (Frohnhofer, James)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:56:33 +0100
Subject: Python + Java knowledge
Message-ID: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C616F5@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>

I have the same problem.  My 9 to 5 is using Java 1.1 (actually Visual J++) --
don't ask . . .

That wasn't a problem in terms of skills and knowledge (and fun), after I got
my kids to bed I would fire up IntelliJ and work on any of my pet Java
projects.  But now that I've got the Python bug, I'm afraid my Java is
slipping.  I haven't even tried out 1.5.

I was thinking of moving to Jython for my pet projects, but Jython appears to
be 2 minor versions behind straight Python.

I don't have a solution or advice, only commiseration.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org]On
> Behalf Of Maurice LING
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 6:06 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Python + Java knowledge
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've learnt and used Java and Python for a few years now, on 
> bits of my 
> thesis work etc etc. I will have to say that I love both 
> languages and 
> the possibilities they can provide. More recently, due to the toolkit 
> that I use, I've been using Python. And I found that my Jva knowledge 
> slacks a little. So, I'm looking for some tips on how to maintain the 
> knowledge on both areas.
> 
> Has anyone done it?
> 
> Thanks
> Maurice
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

==============================================================================
This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you received
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From hellas_74 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 16 05:47:43 2004
From: hellas_74 at hotmail.com (Hellas)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:47:43 +0200
Subject: operation with strings and numbers
References: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it> <du7acun3kvz.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<6rWbd.142269$35.6913604@news4.tin.it>
	<du7acun1z70.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <ckqquq$2t3$1@news.flashnet.it>

Ville thanks for the courage that you give to me 




From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct 12 18:18:26 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:18:26 -0400
Subject: School Project, Need Help Fast!
In-Reply-To: <000801c4b09f$3f282260$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>
References: <000801c4b09f$3f282260$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <416C5832.7070909@cloudthunder.com>

Gavin,
    What you want to use is a dictionary instead of all of those IFs and 
ELIFs.  Do you know how to do that Gavin?  The Python Docs should help 
you with this but feel free to reply if you have any further questions.

Gavin Bauer wrote:

> Please respond ASAP, the project is due soon.
>  
> In science, we are doing a "creative mini project" about minerals. 
> People can write a song, or make a movie, etc. etc. Being the dry, 
> uncreative person I am, I chose to use my limited python knowledge to 
> create a "Mineral Program" the idea is that a person inputs a mineral 
> name, and then the program gives them all the information about the 
> mineral. At first I figured this would be easy. I would make an input 
> line for mineral. Then I would use and if statement, and a whole bunch 
> of elif statements, to give the info, here is the broken program I 
> came up with:
>  
> <SNIP>
>  
> The "a"'s would be where I would put all the mineral information. I 
> figured I'd get the program straight before I did research. The "press 
> enter to exit" thing is because my DOS shuts off the second it 
> finishes computing, which leaves me without seeing the final 
> information. I would love it if someone knew how I could change my Dos 
> preference, but I would be pushing my luck to get a response in time 
> at all.
>  
> Thanks a lot   -Gavin




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 15:55:20 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:55:20 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<20041019190851.GA6740@kostyrka.org>
	<mailman.5190.1098212227.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glxart.nyjrdkvdbv0qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:

> Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:16:01AM -0700, Jonathan  Ellis wrote:
> > 
> >>Testing is good; preventing entire classes of errors from ever
> >>happening at all is better, particularly when you get large.  Avoiding
> >>connectedness helps, but that's not always possible.
> > 
> > What classes of errors are completely avoided by "static typing" as
> > implemented by C++ (Java)? 

C++'s casting power makes this a bit moot -- I have seen generally-good
developers (not quite comfy with C++, from a mostly-Fortran then a
little C background) mangle poor innocent rvalues (and even lvalues,
BION, with ample supplies of & and * to help) with such overpowering
hits of reinterpret_cast<> that I'm still queasy to think of it years
later.  Java is mercifully a bit less powerful, but of course _its_
casts are generally runtime-checked.  So, when one sees:

   WhatAWonderfulWord w = (WhatAWonderfulWord) v;

one _IS_ admittedly inclined to think that the "class of error being
completely avoided" is "erroneous omission of a cast that plays no
useful role at all and is going to be checked only at runtime anyway".

However, there _are_ tiny but undeniable advantages to static typing:

1. some typos are caught at compiletime, rather than 2 seconds later by
   unit tests -- 2 seconds ain't much, but it ain't 0 either;

2. simple-minded tools have an easier time offering such editing
   services as "auto-completion", which may save a little typing;

3. simple-minded compilers have an easier time producing halfway
   decent code;

and the like.  None deal with "classes of errors completely avoided"
unless one thinks of unittests as an optional add-on and of compilers as
a mandatory must-have, which is wrong -- the point Robert Martin makes
excellently in his artima article about the wonders of dynamic typing of
a bit more than a year ago (dynamic typing is wonderful _with_ unit
testing, but then unit testing is an absolute must anyway, to
summarize).


> I'm curious as well, because from what I've seen, the classes of errors
> "caught" are (1) a subset of the higher-level (e.g. algorithmic and
> corner-case) errors caught by good testing anyway,

Yes, undeniable.

> (2) much more common in code written by 
> lazy/underexperienced developers who are already considered a liability,

No, I think you're wrong here.  Typos are just as frequent for just
about all classes of coders, lazy or eager, experienced or not -- the
eager experienced ones often use faster typing (nothing to do with
static typing;-).

> and (3) 
> caused in part by complexities introduced by the language itself*.

Yes, a fair cop.  E.g., a typo in one of those redundant mentions of a
type or interface, seen above, is an error introduced only because I'm
required to type the GD thing twice over (though autocompletion may save
me some keystrokes;-).


> More modern/advanced static type systems that let you actually get into
> the semantics of the program (as opposed to just deciding which predefined
> type bucket your data fits in) may help, but IMO the jury's still out on
> them (partly due to complexity, and partly due to _when_ in the
> development process they must be defined - perhaps that's the root problem
> of some static type systems - they make you declare intent and semantics
> when you know the _least_ about them! Consider the parallels to available
> knowledge in compile-time versus run-time optimizations).

If you mean typesystems such as Haskell's or ML's, allowing extended
inference (and, in Haskell's case, the wonder of typeclasses), I think
you're being a bit unfair here.  You can refactor your types and
typeclasses just as much as any other part of your code, so the "when
they must be defined" seems a bit of a red herring to me (unless you
have in mind other more advanced typesystems yet, in which case I'd like
some URL to read up on them -- TIA).

I think we agree at 95% to 99%, btw, I admit I'm just picking nits...


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 23 18:24:15 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:24:15 +0200
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-D9DE07.17494723102004@localhost>
Message-ID: <1gm4vyt.1eykww1d7p0i8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Michael J. Fromberger <Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU>
wrote:
   ...
> > > I am looking for a list of all unique strings of length x whose
> > > elements are from the set a, b, and c.
   ...
> The task you're describing is generation of all strings over a given 
> alphabet.  Fortunately, there is a fairly simple technique for doing 
> this -- here is a Python generator to do it:
> 
> def lexgen(alph, maxlen = None):
>     """Generate all the possible strings over the given alphabet in 
>     lexicographic order.  Stop after generating the strings of maxlen,
>     if provided; otherwise, generate forever."""
>     
>     ixs = []
>     
>     while maxlen is None or len(ixs) <= maxlen:
>         while True:
>             yield str.join('', [ alph[ixs[x]] for x in
>                                  xrange(len(ixs) - 1, -1, -1) ])
> 
>             for pos in xrange(len(ixs)):
>                 ixs[pos] = (ixs[pos] + 1) % len(alph)
>                 if ixs[pos] <> 0:
>                     break
> 
>             if sum(ixs) == 0:
>                 break
> 
>         ixs += [0]

Nice, and different from what was offered in the other recent thread
(and from what the OP asked for) since you generate all strings of
length up to maxlen, while the request was for just those of length
exactly x.  Still, this can easily be restricted, and maybe a few
Pythonic tweaks with it...:

def lexgen_n(alph, x):
    ixs = [0] * x
    while True:
        yield ''.join([alph[i] for i in ixs[::-1]])
        for pos in xrange(x):
            ixs[pos] += 1
            if ixs[pos] < len(alph):
                break
            ixs[pos] = 0
        else:
            break

the 'else: break' at the end executes if the for terminates normally
(this makes it needless to test sum(ixs), or max(ixs), again).

In 2.4 one can do a bit better for the yield, with

        yield ''.join(alph[i] for i in reversed(ixs))

[generator expression vs list comprehension, and reversed built-in vs
reversal by slicing].  Of course, instead of reversing in the yield, one
can reverse in the for -- so in 2.4 one might have (variant...):

        yield ''.join(alph[i] for i in ixs)
        for pos in reversed(xrange(x)):
           ...

or, after a 'from itertools import imap':

        yield ''.join(imap(alph.__getitem__, ixs))

It's important to remember that Python does no constant-expression
hoisting; there may be important efficiencies in hoisting constants
oneself (that len(alph) in the inner loop, for example).  E.g, sticking
to 2.4 (what one should use if one cares for speed anyway), another
variant:

def lexgen_n(alph, x):
    # hoistings for speed
    from itertools import imap
    getalph = alph.__getitem__
    lenalph_m1 = len(alph) - 1

    # and now, to work
    ixs = [0] * x
    while True:
        yield ''.join(imap(getalph, reversed(ixs)))
        for pos, ix in enumerate(ixs):
            if ix == lenalph_m1:
                ixs[pos] = 0
            else:
                ixs[pos] = ix + 1
                break
        else:
            break


Alex


From export at hope.cz  Fri Oct 15 02:36:20 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 23:36:20 -0700
Subject: os.system and flow control
References: <81a41dd.0410140248.612d2ed9@posting.google.com>
	<DNmdnVdU3aNH8vPcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410142236.3fb3143b@posting.google.com>

Peter L Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<DNmdnVdU3aNH8vPcRVn-vA at powergate.ca>...
> Lad wrote:
> > In my program I use 
> > os.popen2('notepad.exe IDPass.txt')
> > to open IDPass.txt file in Notepad window. Users can edit this file
> > but the problem is that if the program runs on Windows 98  , the
> > program does not wait for closing of Notepad window but continues
> > running with the next command after
> > os.popen2('notepad.exe IDPass.txt').
> > If the program runs on XP, the execution of my program is paused until
> > I close the notepad window.
> > How shall I force the WIndows 98 to pause the execution like WIndows
> > Xp ?
> 
> Odd, I recall this being asked recently.  It wasn't you by
> any chance, was it?
> 
> I believe the ultimate conclusion was that you should investigate
> the START command with an option of /WAIT.
> 
Yes, Peter 
I already asked and you already tried to help but your solution did
not work. Can you please give me an example how to use START with
/WAIT option.
Thanks a lot
Lad


From matt.price at utoronto.ca  Thu Oct 28 12:46:48 2004
From: matt.price at utoronto.ca (Matt Price)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:46:48 -0400
Subject: quick regex question
Message-ID: <20041028164648.GA32572@utoronto.ca>

hi folks,

this is surely trivial, but can'f figure it out.  I wnat to replace:

'string with spaces'
with
'StringWithSpaces'

so I tried this:

s = 'string with spaces'
pat = ' (.)'
t = re.sub(pat, upper, s)

I know this isn't quite right, I expect it to return:
'String With Spaces'

instead I get an error:
 t = re.sub(' (.)', upper, s)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 143, in sub
    return _compile(pattern, 0).sub(repl, string, count)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/string.py", line 64, in upper
    return s.upper()
AttributeError: upper

what am I doing wrong?

matt


-------------------------------------------
Matt Price	    matt.price at utoronto.ca
History Department, University of Toronto
(416) 978-2094
--------------------------------------------

please don't use the following addresses:  zeus at derailleur.org
aardvark at derailleur.org


From ml at dynkin.com  Sat Oct 16 09:50:56 2004
From: ml at dynkin.com (George Yoshida)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:50:56 +0900
Subject: get the name of lambda
In-Reply-To: <ckr72j$g2g$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <ckr59p$1epo$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
	<ckr72j$g2g$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <ckr8vl$1g9t$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>


Michael Hoffman wrote:

> Anyway I don't think it has anything to do with lambda:
> 
>  >>> def x(): pass
> ...
>  >>> y = x
>  >>> y.__name__
> 'x'
> 
> IIRC, in 2.4 you can set the func_name attribute so you could set up a 
> decorator to set the name for you. Or if you want to be fancy you could 
> even set up a metaclass that automatically renames all the lambda 
> functions it finds in a class.

I haven't had a chance to play with decorators, but I'll give
it a try. In any case, I don't need a fancy way.
The simpler, the better.

> But why?

I implemented a function in several ways(using recursion,
lambda, etc) and benchmarked them. In that script, I needed
to display function names, along with ellapsed time.

I was doing something like:

for func in (func1, func2, func3):
     print func.func_name
     print measure_ellapsed_time(func)

and get hit by lambda!

-- George


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Tue Oct  5 17:10:55 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 22:10:55 +0100
Subject: Retrieving the full path of Unix apps
In-Reply-To: <cjv0i1$3ti$2@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>
References: <cjuu5v$2n7$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>
	<4163013c$0$59513$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<cjv0i1$3ti$2@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <cjv2lc$pr4$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Lorin Hochstein wrote:

> That does seem more elegant than relying on 'which'.

I dunno. I imagine that after a certain point, relying on 'which' will 
be faster since it is written in C. You're going to have to do process a 
lot of stats to find out which files you have execute permission for. 
And they have already dealt with all the caveats that you haven't even 
thought of yet ;-)
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Tue Oct 26 14:50:01 2004
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:50:01 -0500
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <clm68p$6r4$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

kartik wrote:
>>The question is how small is small? Less than 2**7? Less than 2**15? 
>>Less than 2**31? Less than 2**63? And what's the significance of powers 
>>of two? And what happens if you move from a 32 bit machine to a 64 bit 
>>one? (or a 1024 bit one in a hundred years time?)
> 
> less than 2**31 most of the time & hardly ever greater than 2**63 - no
> matter if my machine is 32-bit, 64-bit or 1024-bit. the required range
> depends on the data   u want 2 store in the variable & not on the
> hardware.

Yes. My point exactly. Very rarely will the platform limit reflect the 
algorithmic limit. If you want to limit the range if your numbers, you 
need to have knowledge of your particular use case - something that 
can't be done with a predefined language limit.

>> > PEP 237 says, "It will give new Python programmers [...] one less
>> > thing to learn [...]". i feel this is not so important as the quality
>> > of code a programmer writes once he does learn the language.
>>
>>The thing is, the int/long cutoff is arbitrary, determined soley by 
>>implemetation detail. 
> 
> agreed, but it need not be that way. ints can be defined to be 32-bit
> (or 64-bit) on all architectures.

But again, even though consistent, the limit is still arbitrary. Which 
one will it be? How do we decide? If we're platform independent, why 
bother with hardware based sizes anyway? Why not use a base 10 limit 
like 10**10? As mentioned above, the choice of limit depends on the 
particular algorithm, which can't be know by the language designers a 
priori.

>>A much better idea is the judicious use of assertions.
>>
>>assert x < 15000
>>
>>Not only does it protect you from runaway numbers, it also documents 
>>what the expected range is, resulting in a much better "quality of code"
> 
> such an assertion must be placed before avery assignment to the
> variable - & that's tedious. moreover, it can give u a false sense of
> security when u think u have it wherever needed but u've forgotten it
> somewhere.

I was thinking of judicious use for local variables inside of a loop. 
But if you want general, just subclass int (with 2.3.4):

 >>> class limint(long):
	def __add__(self, other):
		value = long.__add__(self, other)
		if value > 100:
			raise OverflowError
		return limint(value)
 >>> a = limint(10)
 >>> a
10L
 >>> b = a+90
 >>> b
100L
 >>> c = b+1

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#24>", line 1, in -toplevel-
     c = b+1
   File "<pyshell#18>", line 5, in __add__
     raise OverflowError
OverflowError
 >>>

A bit crude, but it will get you started. If it's too slow, there is 
nothing stopping you from making a C extension module with the 
appropriate types.

I think that one of the problems we're having in this conversation is 
that we are talking across each other. Nobody is denying that finding 
bugs is a good thing. It's just that, for the bugs which the overflow 
catches, there are much better ways of discovering them. (I'm surprised 
no one has mentioned unit testing yet.)

Any decision is always has a cost/benefit analysis. For long/int 
unification, the benefits have been pointed out by others, and your 
proposed costs are minor, and can be ameliorated by other practices, 
which most here would argue are the better way of going about it in the 
first place.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 29 14:49:50 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:49:50 +0200
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
	<mailman.5652.1099050368.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ueq45F2a9e6eU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<6c6a52-r5t.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <clu3cd$oe$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

> The standard pattern for doing that is having an xmlrpc call
> that you supply username/password/other credentials to.  It
> then responds with a pair of tokens.  You then use them as
> part of the URL where usernames and passwords are usually
> used.  For example:
> 
>    sp=xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://foo.example.com")
>    c1,c2=sp.login("username", "password", "etc")
> 
>    sp=xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://%s:%s at foo.example.com" % (c1,c2))
>    sp.DoSomething(1,2)
>    sp.DoSomethingElse(3,4)
> 
> This will work fine with the current client side xmlrpclib.  If
> you server side is written in Python then you will need to make
> a derived request handler that grabs and verifies the authentication
> headers before calling the intended routines (except for the login
> function :-)


While I have to admit that it is a nice trick, its something I expect beeing
part of a IPC-standard - otherwise, it renders the standard short of beeing
useless.

There are alternatives out there, like corba, which allow for much better
implementations - in terms of ease of use from the api side as well as
performance and interoperability. Having to tweak a standard to make it
work in a certainly common pattern strikes me as awkward. Unfortunately, I
have to use xmlrpc myself as php corba support isn't too good - but I keep
it to a minimum, and its dead ugly...

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Oct 16 11:15:15 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:15:15 -0400
Subject: get the name of lambda
References: <ckr59p$1epo$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <ckrdtv$dp3$1@sea.gmane.org>


"George Yoshida" <ml at dynkin.com> wrote in message 
news:ckr59p$1epo$1 at dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp...
> Just out of curiosity, is there any way to get the name of a
> lambda expression? Lambdas are anonymous functions, so it's a
> stupid idea to get the name of it. But if it's possible, how
> could I?
>
> Let's take a simple example:
>  foo = lambda:None
>
> foo.__name__(or foo.func_name) returns '<lambda>'.
> I'm looking for a way to return 'foo', instead of '<lambda>'.

Use 'def foo: return None' instead.  This is precisely why a 'name = lambda 
...' statement is inferior to a def statement.

[and in followup]
> I implemented a function in several ways(using recursion,
> lambda, etc) and benchmarked them. In that script, I needed
> to display function names, along with ellapsed time.

So use a def instead of lambda.  Only use lambda when you have an 
expression to return and *do not need* a name to display.  Python is not 
Lisp ;-)

Terry J. Reedy






From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 07:31:59 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:31:59 -0300
Subject: Free hosting for Python open-source projects
In-Reply-To: <41758B13.3020301@cloudthunder.com>
References: <864d370904101914067b7a1728@mail.gmail.com>
	<41758B13.3020301@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041020043157112ddd@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:45:55 -0400, Richard Blackwood
<richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
> Why do you require a mailing-list as part of the same service?

Well, it doesn't need to be part of the service, but I think it would
be more convenient if I could manage everything from a single service
interface -- pretty much like SourceForge used to work. My experience
with SF hasn't being good -- the main problem being the long delays on
CVS and mail, and on top of that, a very confusing interface. For now
I'm thinking about using Google Groups 2 (still beta) for it.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From maxm at mxm.dk  Sat Oct 23 06:15:00 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:15:00 +0200
Subject: ClientCookie problem - Difference between 'post' on the local
 network and the internet
In-Reply-To: <7o0jn01jn22kdmlpni3mh2oortrc66hpuv@4ax.com>
References: <4178F159.7060100@mxm.dk>
	<7o0jn01jn22kdmlpni3mh2oortrc66hpuv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <417a2e66$0$234$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:39:05 +0200, Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:

> Are you using Version 1.0.0a ?

Yes

> There is a bug (well actually a bug in urllib2 - but it amoutns to the
> same thing) that is fixed in CVS. Either use CVS or go back to 0.4
> whatever which is the latest stable version.

argh! Well that was a day of my life wasted :-( Well at least *this* day 
was saved. Thank you.

It's one of the damnest problems with programming.

Either you write a module like ClientCookie yourself. Then you can find 
bugs rather easily. But it takes so long to work out the special cases.

Or you can use an existing library. But if that has a bug, or is poorly 
documented, you need to understand the library pretty well to bug fix 
it. Leaving you esssentially in the hands of the author.

I find that moments like these are among the most frustrating in 
programming.

Unfurtunately there is no easy way out, but some of the best stuff I 
have seen to solve these kind of documentation problems, is the doctest 
based code in Zope 3.

This approach to testing makes their code *really* easy to understand.



-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 12 01:14:25 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 05:14:25 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<7xoejdvinv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<483ad.27373$QJ3.22451@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<wzmzytmuji.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
	<bsIad.28654$QJ3.25079@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <416b619c.37222603@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 03:46:15 GMT, Bryan Olson <fakeaddress at nowhere.org> wrote:
>Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>
> >>>>>>Bryan Olson <fakeaddress at nowhere.org> (BO) wrote:
> > BO> I'm not really up-to-date on modern multi-processor support.
> > BO> Back in grad school I read some papers on cache coherence, and I
> > BO> don't know how well the problems have been solved.  The issue
> > BO> was that a single processor can support a one-instruction lock
> > BO> (in the usual no-contention case) simply by supplying an
> > BO> uninterruptable read-and-update instruction, but on a multi-
> > BO> processor, all the processors have respect the lock.
> >
> > For multiprocessor systems, uninterruptible isn't enough (depending 
>on your
> > definition of uninterruptible). Memory operations from other processors
> > also shouldn't interleave with the instruction. Modern processors usually
> > have a 'test and set' or 'compare and swap' instruction for this purpose,
> > which lock memory for the duration of the operation.
>
>I'm with you that far.  The reason I mentioned cache coherence
>is that locking memory isn't enough on MP systems.  Another
>processor may have the value in local cache memory.  For all the
>processors to respect the lock, they have to communicate the
>locking before any processor can update the address.
>
>If every thread treats a certain memory address is used as lock,
>each can access it only by instructions that go to main memory.
>But then locking every object can have a devastating effect on
>speed.
I don't know if smarter instructions are available now, but if a lock
is in a locked state, there is no point in writing locked status value
through to memory, which is what a naive atomic swap would do. The
returned value would just leave you to try again. If n-1 out of n
processors were doing that to a queue lock waiting for something to
be dequeuable, that would be a huge waste of bus bandwidth, maybe
interfering with DMA i/o. I believe the strategy is (or was, if better
instructions are available) to read lock values passively in a short
spin, so that each processor so doing is just looking at its cache value.
Then when the lock is released, that is done by a write through, and
everyone's cache is invalidated and reloaded, and potentially many see the
lock as free. At that point, everyone tries their atomic swap instructions,
writing locked status through to memory, and only one succeeds in getting
the unlocked value back in the atomic swap. As soon as everyone sees locked
again, they go back to passive spinning. The spins don't go on forever, since
multiple threads in one CPU may be waiting for different things. That's a balance
between context switch (within CPU) overhead vs a short spin lock wait. Probably
lock-dependent. Maybe automatically tunable.

The big MP cache hammer comes if multiple CPU's naively dequeue thread work
first-come-first-serve, and they alternate reloading each other's previously
cached thread active memory content. I suspect all of the above is history
long ago by now. It's been a while ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fakeaddress at nowhere.org  Fri Oct  1 06:16:45 2004
From: fakeaddress at nowhere.org (Bryan Olson)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:16:45 GMT
Subject: cost of creating threads
In-Reply-To: <cjgdn4$grq$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
References: <mailman.4125.1096527938.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cjgdn4$grq$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
Message-ID: <h8a7d.4985$nj.3884@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

Remco Boerma wrote:
 > In the documentation is a short comprehensive list of what server
 > options for handling connections are usefull in what situations. .
 > See chapter 15.1.2 on 
http://www.cherrypy.org/static/html/tut/node17.html .
 > While you have a tiny server, i would recommend a thread-pool of about 2
 > to 3 threads. This at least cuts down the time needed for thread 
creation.

What happens if all three threads are blocked, perhaps waiting
for server_b, when a new request comes in?


-- 
--Bryan


From whwang at autotradecenter.com  Mon Oct 11 13:59:53 2004
From: whwang at autotradecenter.com (Wennie Hwang)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:59:53 -0700
Subject: a question to run a Python program using PMW
Message-ID: <4C74BC03B92C5A40A3450C588DF2B2EC84306D@msmpk02.corp.autc.com>

Hi,
I am new to Python and I am trying to run an old program. I do not know what version this old program was running back in 2001 ( I know it was run successfully). I got the source codes from the office and I downloaded Python 2.3 and Pmw 1.2. when ran the program I got the following message

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "BidderUI.py", line 12, in ?
import os.path, string, Pmw
File "C:\Python23\Pmw\__init__.py", line 35, in ?
__import__(_loader)
ImportError: No module named Pmw_1_2.lib.PmwLoader

I did create Pmw.py by running bunddlepmw.py. I also find PmwLoader.py under the PMW_1_2/lib directory. Does anyone know how to fix this? did I miss any steps ?

Thanks

Wennie



From scooterm at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 13 23:28:00 2004
From: scooterm at hotmail.com (valued customer)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 20:28:00 -0700
Subject: Completely INNOCENT Indentation question
References: <1b347673.0410130532.63199a4a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4846.1097675256.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1b347673.0410131928.750bcde7@posting.google.com>

> > Is there a way in python to indicate that you want your 
> > "base level of indentation" to be four spaces instead of
> > zero?

> I don't think so.  Just out of curiosity, why would you want to do that?

The question was just to make sure I hadn't overlooked some
feature or setting of the programming language that would enable
what I had asked about (short of introducing any of the various
language constructs that we all can imagine and you need not 
elaborate here).

As far as 'why would anyone want to do that' one reason that 
never fails is *personal preference* ... there probably isn't
a stylistic or programming practice in existence that can't be 
explained at least partially by that. Therefore if someone asks,
there must be at least *that* reason.

For those who are not satisfied with that kind of answer, here
is an example: 

Suppose you are editing source code in such a way
that you only want *comments* to be flush left, and the rest of
the code to be indented. 

(but Why would you want do that?)

Because you work with a text editor that shows an 'outline' 
of your code based on the indentation, and you want the outline
structure to be reflected in the comments.

### documentation
    """ This is a python script that does some stuff.
    Not only does it do stuff, it's documented stuff. 
    """
### initialize python
    import foo
    import bar

### do some stuff
    print foo.frobilize()

### do some other stuff
    print bar.babelize()

### end of python


Yes the question may remain ... why would anyone wanna do 
that? Well, there are reasons. Whatever the justifications
may be, the 'additional language statements' workaround will
apparently have to suffice.

Thanks for the input though.


From bbull at pathfire.com  Wed Oct 20 16:47:24 2004
From: bbull at pathfire.com (WakeBdr)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 13:47:24 -0700
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5221.1098275067.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.20.01.27.52.116416@cs.wisc.edu>
	<mailman.5221.1098275067.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1098305244.828132.161290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

I've given this some thought yesterday and today and would like to pose
another question.  Should the configparser be able to read and store
properties from multiple config files or should each config file
require a separate configparser?



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 07:44:25 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 04:44:25 -0700
Subject: request for feedback: pyfmf
References: <oOGdnVv0D8jmduPcRVn-gg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410270344.4d5fdb0@posting.google.com>

"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<oOGdnVv0D8jmduPcRVn-gg at rogers.com>...
> pyfmf is a project I started a few months ago and that is registered with 
> sourceforge (http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net, 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyfmf).  It consists of a framework for file 
> management, with a console based toolkit (zigo) and a graphical platform 
> (zago) based on the framework.  Both zigo and zago are still alpha releases, 
> addressed only to python enthusiasts.
> 
> I just released a new version of zigo and the first release of zago.  There 
> have been a few tens of downloads of previous releases of zigo (which is not 
> bad) but I never received any feedback (at least I didn't get any bad 
> feedback either).  I would like to hear what other people think about it.  I 
> am interested in comments on uses, design, coding or just simply whether you 
> think this is interesting and useful.  Please take a look at the home page 
> of the project: http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net.
> 

I've had several hundred downloads of Nanagram my desktop anagram
maker - I've only had a handful of emails back about it.

In general feedback seems to in the order of < 1%
I'll have a look and if I have anything worthwhile to say - I'll say
it :-)

Regards,


Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> Thanks,
> 
> Dan Perl


From brendan at opensourcelaw.biz  Mon Oct 25 21:56:36 2004
From: brendan at opensourcelaw.biz (Brendan Scott)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:56:36 +1000
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <1098753922.18822.333.camel@emilio>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	
	<1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>	
	<1098746958.22370.116.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>	
	<mailman.5466.1098748601.5135.python-list@python.org>	
	<clk5qk$4lt$1@news1.ucsd.edu> <clk89q$5da$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<1098753922.18822.333.camel@emilio>
Message-ID: <417DAED4.3040102@opensourcelaw.biz>

Tim Churches wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 11:12, Robert Kern wrote:
> 
>>>>>If this is true, I can't think of any way for a program to run on a
>>>>>GPL'd system (such as Linux) without becoming GPL'd itself (Unless it
>>>>>doesn't do any I/O or malloc any memory <wink>). 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yes. It seems to be them is some dissonance between these two positions:
>>>>
>>>>"It is OK for a closed-source application to allocate memory on a system
>>>>running the GPLed Linux kernel"
>>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>"It is not OK for a GPL-incompatible Python application to import GPLed
>>>>code into the runtime namespace it is using."
>>>>
>>>>I shudder to think what a judge and jury would make of such a
>>>>distinction. 

Interestingly, prior to the FTA, there were court judgments which found that the reproduction in RAM in the course of running a program was not a reproduction within the meaning of the Copyright Act and, therefore, arguably such a copy would not be a derivative work within the meaning of the GPL, so it was probably never an issue. However, the FTA requires Australia to implement provisions in the Copyright Act which makes ephemeral copies infringing copies.   
 

Brendan 
IAAL
But DNHTAM
And TINLA

-- 
Brendan Scott IT Law Open Source Law 
0414 339 227 http://www.opensourcelaw.biz
Liability limited by the Solicitors' Scheme, approved under the Professional Standards Act 1994 (NSW)
Open Source Law Weekly digest: oswald at opensourcelaw.biz


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 03:20:35 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 00:20:35 -0700
Subject: From dictionary keys to variables
References: <6f402501.0410110433.172a6c26@posting.google.com>
	<10mme8ars7bdaeb@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410112320.2ed908d0@posting.google.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message news:<10mme8ars7bdaeb at corp.supernews.com>...
> Michael Foord wrote:
> 
> >I use a module called COnfigObj to read my config files into python.
> >It exposes them as a dictionary.
> >
> >I often find myself writing code like :
> >
> >valuelist = ['name1', 'name2', 'name3'....]
> >config = ConfigObj(filename, configspec=valuelist)
> >name1 = config['name1']
> >name2 = config['name2']
> >name3 = config['name3']
> >  
> >
> 
> Any reason why it's necessary to define variables instead of just using 
> the dict?  You're probably not really saving anything by doing this...  
> there *might* be a slight savings in typing if you use the names 
> numerous times, but directly accessing the dictionary makes it clearer 
> where your values are coming from.  And dict lookups are fast, so unless 
> you're using these valuables repeatedly inside a tight loop, you won't 
> get significant speed savings.  (If you *are* using some inside a tight 
> loop, then it's sensible to hoist the lookup out of the loop, but don't 
> do this until you know that that loop is a significant source of 
> slowdown -- as they say, premature optimization is the root of all evil.)
> 

It's not really optimisation. There are two factors, I write lot's of
little scripts that pull there paths/config options out of a config
file in this way. With something like the above or 'globals()[entry]'
I can just cut and paste a chunk of code. That means I can add/change
the variable names (which correspond to keywords in the config file)
by just changing the name once in the 'valuelist'. I can then access
the variable directly without having to keep *typing* the
config['..... bit.. The only optimisation is on my wrist !!

Anyway, thanks. You may still be right of course...

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International


From chrisconnett at gmail.com  Sat Oct  9 18:41:31 2004
From: chrisconnett at gmail.com (Chris Connett)
Date: 9 Oct 2004 15:41:31 -0700
Subject: Algorithm used by keyword 'in'
References: <lYS9d.144800$Kt5.79976@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <62e38ff3.0410091441.572c1488@posting.google.com>

"Derek Rhodes" <rhoder at worldpath.net> wrote in message news:<lYS9d.144800$Kt5.79976 at twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
> #using python 2.4a3
> 
> say there is a list:
> 
> list = range(10000)
> 
> Now randomize it.
> 
> Next, command the interpreter:
> 
> >>>  465 in list
>  True
> >>>
> 
> What algorithm is used here?

Since there are no guarantees about the list or the items it contains,
the best list can do is a linear search.  Do be aware however that
each class can implement it's own behavior for keyword ``in``, by
implementing the ``__contains__`` method.  For example, sets and dicts
use a hash table implementation for their __contains__ method, so
performance there will be O(1), but sets and dicts can only contain
hashable items.  Your classes can implement it however they want, with
whatever semantics you want.

--
Chris Connett


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Oct 17 18:24:35 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:24:35 GMT
Subject: beginning index for generators
In-Reply-To: <cktll3$704$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.5041.1097931341.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckrd7q$75n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<tPlcd.6045$gy1.3010@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cktbgm$7cj$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<fWrcd.5708$6k2.1169@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cktll3$704$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <DiCcd.6184$6k2.1700@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Peter Otten wrote:
> As to itertools.islice(), anyone who throws away, say,
> the first 2**31 values of an iteration has probably other things than
> Python's limitations to worry about.

True enough.

Personally I'm surprised to see that my two year old laptop
can do

   for i in xrange(0, sys.maxint):
     pass

in just over 7 minutes.  It's like in the 1980s when I
realized that 16 bit numbers were small.


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From graeme.matthew at contrado.com.au  Sat Oct  2 03:31:58 2004
From: graeme.matthew at contrado.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 17:31:58 +1000
Subject: python connection to mssql from windows box
References: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434AD1@iron.ima.umn.edu>
	<mailman.4134.1096552901.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <415e5970$0$26022$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>

look at the ODBTP page I think ther eis a python wrapper for it

:-)
"Josh Close" <narshe at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.4134.1096552901.5135.python-list at python.org...
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:09:05 +0100, Tim Golden
> <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote:
>> I think you're asking for this:
>>
>> http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/mssql/
>>
>> (which, by the way, is the first non-mailing-list result
>> Google gives for python mssql)
>>
>> TJG
>
> Google? What's that?
>
> I use the Sybase module by object-craft for linux/python connections
> to mssql, and I refuse to use the mssql module due to these things
> listed on the main mssql page.
>
> There are a few things that do not work - the work still has not been 
> done.
>
>    * Almost no testing has been performed - if you use the module you
> will be a pioneer.
>    * You cannot send parameters to Cursor.execute() - for the moment
> you must format an SQL expression with the parameters inline.
>    * On Windows the Cursor.callproc() method does not work. Some guru
> will have to figure out what is going wrong (i.e. not me). You can
> achieve the same result by simply using Cursor.execute(). For example:
>
> c = db.cursor()
> c.execute('sp_help titles')
>
>    * The state machine for the Cursor class is quite hokey. It
> returns COMPUTE rows in their own result set. At some stage this will
> be cleaned up.
>    * The Connection.commit() and Connection.rollback() methods have
> not been implemented.
>
>
> So basically it *kind of* works, but not well. I'm talking about
> native windows module that uses the client tools api. Maybe ADO will
> be the best thing for me. I've seen some problems with that too
> though...... man I hate mssql.
>
> -Josh 




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Oct 12 20:57:56 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:57:56 -0400
Subject: understanding generators  and functions with arguments
References: <c6dd4e35.0410111700.2be6c24c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckhuih$bte$1@sea.gmane.org>


<caw at southernhealth.org.au> wrote in message 
news:c6dd4e35.0410111700.2be6c24c at posting.google.com...
> this is the smallest bit of code I could get to demonstrate what I
> want to understand...
>
> def msg(text):
>    def decorate(f):
>        def new_f(*args):
>            print text, f(*args)
>        return new_f
>    return decorate
>
>
> @msg("Hello, ")
> def f1(s):
>    return s
>
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>    f1("world!")
>
>
> ~/src/python caw$ python dec_play.py
> Hello,  world!
>
> OK... so I can give a decorator and argument, and that will then
> return the function <decorate>. This expects one argument (and is a
> decorator (?)). When decorate is called with f1 as the argument, it
> returns new_f, which, when called will print <text> (passed to the
> original decorator), together with the result of calling f1 with its
> args.
>
> I don't understand the scope of *args, as seen in the argument list of
> new_f. It doesn't appear to be in the static scope of msg, or decorate
> or new_f...

As with all parameters, 'args' is a local variable in the local namespace 
of  the function it is a parameter for, in this case new_f.  I presume you 
would call that 'local scope'.  I do not know what you mean by 'static 
scope' since that is not a term usually used in describing Python.

Terry J. Reedy





From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct 26 05:19:06 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:19:06 +0200
Subject: module signal
References: <3e96ebd7.0410260054.197dd951@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cll4p6$ca2$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Klaus Neuner wrote:

> # (2)
> 
> import sys, signal
> 
> def alarm_handler(signum, frame):
>     raise
> 
> try:
>     signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, alarm_handler)
>     signal.alarm(3)
>     re.search("a(((.)*c)*d)*e", "abcdf"*20)
> except:
>     print "Time over."
> 
> #############################################################
> 
> (1) behaves the way one would expect it to behave: It stops counting
> after about 3 seconds. (2) will stop trying to match the regexp at
> once. And this behaviour will not change if you give any other
> argument to signal.alarm().
> 
> Why?

To remind you that a bare except is always a bad idea. Modify your program
along these lines

class Timeout(Exception): pass

def alarm_handler(signum, frame):
    raise Timeout

try
    ...
except Timeout:
    print "Time over."

to see that you didn't import the re module which raises a NameError.
Unfortunately the resulting script does not terminate anymore and I cannot
help you with that.

Peter



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 11:25:10 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 08:25:10 -0700
Subject: Alternatives for pickle?
References: <slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410120725.441db881@posting.google.com>

Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote in message news:<slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon at rcpc42.vub.ac.be>...
> I'm writing a little game, a gridler application, where you
> can turn pixmaps into puzzle's and try to solve them. I already
> have the data structure for such a puzzle worked out, one of
> the problems is writing it to a file and reading it back in.
> 
> I first went to the pickle module but there I read this.
> 
> | Warning: The pickle module is not intended to be secure against
> | erroneous or maliciously constructed data. Never unpickle data
> | received from an untrusted or unauthenticated source.
> 

Hmmm..... I wonder how easy it is to craft a malicious pickle that
will automatically run code objects just because they are unpickled.
My guess is that it's quite difficult - I've never heard of it *ever*
being done. Someone would have to be *very* malicious to work out how
to do it on the off chance of planting a back door into someone's
machine through a program like yours. No offence intended, but if they
were going to go to all that effort I expect they might aim for
something with a wider audience.

I would expect it to be 'safe enough', but that might not be safe
enough for you !

Creating your own data format is probably the way forward - and
probably not that difficult either.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> But since this is for a game and people should be able to
> exchange puzzles, it seems a heavy requirement to ask of
> the users to check a puzzle file for security hazards.
> 
> 
> I also thought about writing out a string that, when read
> back in and fed to eval would recreate the structure. But
> that seems to be just as insecure if not more so.
> 
> So how do you serialize data in python, when you want
> a somewhat secure mechanisme. Preferably where a user
> can make a puzzle file by hand in a text editor.


From soumitri at fastmail.fm  Wed Oct 13 09:49:10 2004
From: soumitri at fastmail.fm (Soumitri)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:19:10 +0530
Subject: Compiled Byte code
Message-ID: <1097675350.5192.206374341@webmail.messagingengine.com>


Hi,

Is there a dependency of version or platform for running a snippet of
python compiled code? I have a .pyc (possibly created on a *nix box)
that was created off ver 1.5.2 and returns a "Bad Magic Number in .pyc
file" error when i run a box with XP and Python 2.3.

I would greatly appreciate your thoughts/any pointers to docs on this.

Cheers,
Soumitri.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 14 02:37:25 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:37:25 +0200
Subject: passing uint64_t between python and c++
References: <ckkb6g$gdn$1@news1nwk.SFbay.Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <ckl6n3$h8$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jhy-Chun Wang wrote:

> I have a c++ extension that does thing like:
>
> extern "C"
> static PyObject *
> nasUtil_access_cmd(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
> {
>    uint64_t paddr;
>    uint64_t data;
>
>    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, (char*)"LL", &paddr, &data)) {
> return NULL;
>    }
>    ...
> }

from the documentation:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/arg-parsing.html

    "L" (integer) [PY_LONG_LONG]
    Convert a Python integer to a C long long. This format is only available
    on platforms that support long long (or _int64 on Windows).

    "K" (integer) [unsigned PY_LONG_LONG]
    Convert a Python integer to a C unsigned long long without overflow
    checking. This format is only available on platforms that support
    unsigned long long (or unsigned _int64 on Windows). New in
    version 2.3.

in other words, you should use "K" instead of "L", and you should use an
"unsigned PY_LONG_LONG" to hold the value (this may or may not be
the same thing as uint64_t, but why write non-portable code if you don't
have to)

</F> 





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 29 16:07:51 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:07:51 -0400
Subject: Can not get urllib.urlopen to work
In-Reply-To: <LOGdnceSL5eDGx_cRVn-iA@comcast.com>
References: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
	<LOGdnceSL5eDGx_cRVn-iA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <Wv6dnf5-35OKPh_cRVn-hA@powergate.ca>

Pater Maximus wrote:
> Problem solved!!
> 
> First, thanks to all who responded.
> 
> It turns out the villain was "Norton Personal Firewall". Since it did not
> warn me that it was blocking an attempt to reach the internet, I assumed it
> was not the problem.
> 
> Bad assumption.
> 
> Everything worked when I configured Norton to allow pythonw.exe to contact
> the internet.

While that might have been *another* of your problems,
there definitely was a problem connecting to that host
at the time you posted.

The most difficult problems to troubleshoot are those that
involve more than one cause.  I can see how this one would
have been a real bitch to find. :-)

-Peter


From austin at maxtronic.com.tw  Thu Oct 28 07:33:00 2004
From: austin at maxtronic.com.tw (Austin)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:33:00 +0800
Subject: How to set the size of wxFrame
Message-ID: <4180d8de@news.seeder.net>

i create a frame and a panel in that.
i hope the size of the frame is not to be adjusted.
How could i do ?




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 16 11:31:56 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:31:56 -0700
Subject: How can I get text of the body (payload) of an email?
In-Reply-To: <1097917252.192227.265990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.5031.1097891487.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1097917252.192227.265990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041016082336.09CF.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> I'm puzzled.  Josiah suggested that this would allow me to get the
> payload of an email message.
> 
> body = message.split('\r\n\r\n', 1)[1]
> 
> As I understand it, the headers of an email are terminated by a blank
> line, after which comes the message payload.  A blank line being
> represented by \r\n\r\n
> 
> After trying Josiah's above suggestion on many emails and failing to
> get it to work, I found that in fact the following works:
> 
> self.raw_data.split('\n\n', 1)[0]
> 
> But this doesn't agree with my understanding of the RFC822 email
> format, which is that the blank line should be represented by \r\n\r\n
> 
> Can anyone suggest where my understanding is wrong?
> Thanks


Your understanding isn't wrong, but somehow you are acquiring emails
with only line feed line endings.  This may be the case of opening a
file and getting universal line-ending support (which tosses '\r'). This
could be the case of some other processing you do perhaps stripping it
out (I don't use the email package, so don't know what it may or may not
be doing).

A known method of normalizing line endings for data that could come from
anywhere is through the use of regular expressions:

email = re.sub('(\r\n|\r|\n)', email_with_ambiguous_line_endings, '\r\n')


If you know your data to be good on disk, perhaps it would be better to
open files as 'rb' to make sure that universal line ending support is
not used.

 - Josiah



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Oct 13 10:13:06 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:13:06 +0200
Subject: Compiled Byte code
References: <mailman.4847.1097675352.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckjd5h$li6$03$2@news.t-online.com>

Soumitri wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> 
> Is there a dependency of version or platform for running a snippet of
> python compiled code? I have a .pyc (possibly created on a *nix box)
> that was created off ver 1.5.2 and returns a "Bad Magic Number in .pyc
> file" error when i run a box with XP and Python 2.3.

The python bytecode is not guaranteed to remain untouched between major
version number changes - maybe it even changes on minor numbers. So you are
in trouble here if you don't possess the sourcecode. Maybe a service like
decompyle can help you.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From wjppmp at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 11:59:47 2004
From: wjppmp at gmail.com (wjppmp)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 08:59:47 -0700
Subject: Proxy-Authorization with pyGoogle and pyAmazon?
Message-ID: <5deb7b67.0410010759.6f4af378@posting.google.com>

Hi, 

Just starting out with python. I can get Google.py and Amazon.py
working at home but in the office the proxy requires authorization.

Is there an easy way to pass the username and password?
If not, is there a work around?

Cheers

WJPPMP


From andreas at kostyrka.org  Tue Oct 19 15:08:51 2004
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:08:51 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041019190851.GA6740@kostyrka.org>

On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:16:01AM -0700, Jonathan  Ellis wrote:
> Testing is good; preventing entire classes of errors from ever
> happening at all is better, particularly when you get large.  Avoiding
> connectedness helps, but that's not always possible.
What classes of errors are completely avoided by "static typing" as
implemented by C++ (Java)? Just out of curiosity, because this is
usually stated as "true by axiomatic definition" in this kind of
discussions.

Andreas


From grobinson at transpose.com  Sat Oct 30 23:43:40 2004
From: grobinson at transpose.com (Gary Robinson)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:43:40 -0400
Subject: Python-list Info Page
Message-ID: <20041030234340649801.GyazMail.grobinson@transpose.com>

I am trying to understand a couple of nuances of inheriting from the 
tuple type.

The following class definition works nicely:

class Test(tuple):
    def __init__(self, tup):
        self.x = 5
        self = tup        
a = Test((1,2))
print a, a.x

The result of that print is "(1, 2), 5". 

But the following version:

class Test(tuple):
    def __init__(self, tup):
        self = tup
        self.x = 5
a = Test((1,2))

blows up in Python 2.3, complaining that attribute x doesn't exist.

I'm not clear on why one works and not the other, or whether there's a 
better syntax for assigning an attribute to a tuple subclass in the 
__init__() method.

Anyone have any  thoughts??

Gary
-- 

Gary Robinson
CEO
Transpose, LLC
grobinson at transpose.com
207-942-3463
Company: http://www.transpose.com
Blog:    http://www.garyrobinson.net


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Thu Oct 14 09:43:28 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:43:28 -0400
Subject: Easy web session module with Python?
In-Reply-To: <416df772$0$3947$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <416df772$0$3947$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <ZK-dndPGFeodH_PcRVn-ug@giganews.com>

Johnathan Doe wrote:

> I could write my own I suppose, but surely someone has done this before? 

Session management is usually delivered as part of the
application server. Zope, Webware, CherryPy, Quixote,
Snakelets all have session management integrated into
them.

Standalone session modules are probably less used
nowadays, here is one

http://jonpy.sourceforge.net/session.html

Istvan.


From james.frohnhofer at csfb.com  Wed Oct  6 17:58:46 2004
From: james.frohnhofer at csfb.com (Frohnhofer, James)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:58:46 +0100
Subject: New to Python: Features
Message-ID: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C616D7@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>

I've always felt that the amount I care was an open set bounded below by zero,
and thus I could always care less (at least for any eps>0).  

(If N is the number of the posting in the thread, and h(N) is how much I care,
for N large enough, h(N) is a Cauchy sequence with accumulation point at
zero.)

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org]On
Behalf Of sjdevnull at yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 11:20 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: New to Python: Features


Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:<4162f360$0$55262$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>...
> I've always been curious about that phrase.  It seems to imply
> that you _do_ care, since it would be possible for you to care
> less than you do.  Shouldn't the expression be "I couldn't care
> less"?

This is in the alt.usage.english FAQ (the answer isn't particularly
satisfying):

http://www.english-usage.com/faq.html#fxcouldc
http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxcouldc.html (same text from
the newer FAQ on a much slower site)
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

==============================================================================
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this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message was
misdirected, CSFB does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. CSFB
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Instructions transmitted over this system are not binding on CSFB until they
are confirmed by us. Message transmission is not guaranteed to be secure.
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Oct  4 19:43:52 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:43:52 -0400
Subject: Python Macros
References: <41616B9B.1080009@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <cjsn7p$3m8$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Arich Chanachai" <macrocosm at fastmail.fm> wrote in message 
news:41616B9B.1080009 at fastmail.fm...
> How hard/easy is it to extend the Python syntax?
>  Perhaps there are  macro facilities for this?

No, there is intentionally nothing like Lisp macros as part of the standard 
distribution.  There was some discussion on this topic about a year ago.

tjr





From bulliver at badcomputer.no-ip.com  Fri Oct  8 11:23:24 2004
From: bulliver at badcomputer.no-ip.com (Darren Kirby)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:23:24 -0700
Subject: Establishing a p2p connection in python
In-Reply-To: <a50cee44.0410080026.30cf04f0@posting.google.com>
References: <a50cee44.0410080026.30cf04f0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200410080823.29987.bulliver@badcomputer.no-ip.com>

quoth the gs:
> Hi!
>
> This is my first time posting to a newsgroup so please be gentle to me
>
> :)
>
> Introduction to my problem:
>
> I'm studying at the university and a lot of friends and I use MSN to
> communicate. The problem is that MSN file sending/receiving
> capabilities are terribly slow and has no resume option. We're also on
> different subnets and can not access eachoters computers through smb
> shares, nor can we have local ftp-servers.
>
> My programming background:
>
> I've been taking a few classes in JAVA, enough to get familiar with
> sockets, threads and the most common sorting algortithms and
> datastructures (binary trees, stacks etc). I'm also very comfortable
> programming PHP on a webdeveloper basis.
> I recently started out with Python and i immediatly fell in love with
> it, and now I want to "master" it! :) Alas, my problem is also of
> educational nature.
>
> Setup:
> We're about 30 friends who want the ability to share files.
> We're spread out on about 3 different translated external IPs.
> I have access to a public IP that has the ability to run python (but
> not enough bandwith nor space to host an FTP).
> I have limited programming experience.
>
> Proposed solution:
> I thought that one approach could be to write a small server for my
> public server with the sole purpose of keeping track of connected
> users and establishing p2p connections on demand.
>
> Problems:
> 1) I've written a threaded server that stores information about
> connected servers in a "container class". This class holds information
> about username, a unique ID, the connecting adress and the actual
> socket. I have not been able to find any information online on how i
> could go about to connect two sockets. It would seem like the socket
> is already "occupied" since it is connected to the server. Could one
> duplicate, or otherwise get a dedicated socket for sending binary
> data, to one connected socket from another? A few pointers and/or tips
> would be greatly appreciated!
>
> 2) I've also failed to find python specific information on how abouts
> one would do file resuming. I would think that you, somehow, use
> md5-checksums to check file status and somehow skip the first part of
> the datastream. Also, pointers and maybe an explanation in (short)
> pseudo-code would be much appreciated.
>
> 3) Is this too big of a project for a novice programmer such as
> myself? I do want to go through with this since it's a genuine
> problem, but i do not know if i'm ready. I'm not a "quitter" per say,
> but i'm afraid doing something TOO advanced in the beginning might be
> overwhelming :)
>
> Thanks for reading,
> gs

I can suggest taking a look at nicotine, which is a full fledged p2p app 
written in python. I'm not saying it's your solution, but you may get some 
ideas about how to implement what you want by reading the source code, as it 
does support file resuming.

-d

-- 
Part of the problem since 1976
http://badcomputer.no-ip.com
Get my public key from 
http://keyserver.linux.it/pks/lookup?op=index&search=bulliver
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972 
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From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sat Oct 30 06:49:32 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:49:32 +0100
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
Message-ID: <clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> The virtual machine underlying the Perl 6 language, Parrot 
> (www.parrotcode.org) will also support running Python. This will 
> probably incur performance benefits as well as allowing some interesting 
> interoperability between Perl 6 and Python-on-Parrot.

I'll believe the performance benefits when I see them. The Parrot people 
promised they would be faster by OSCON 2004 or Guido would get to pie 
Dan Sugalski in the face. If you don't already know what happened, you 
can see a picture here:

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/zach/archives/006129.html
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 12:58:27 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:58:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
Message-ID: <loom.20041011T184743-487@post.gmane.org>

Clark C. Evans wrote:
>    def somerandomname(args):
>        body
>    func(arg, somerandomname)
> 
> So, you've taken something that is a perfectly clear one-liner and
> converted it into a 3 line chunk of code with _zero_ added clarity,
> in fact, I'd say you've dramatically reduced clarity by requiring
> the a name be 'minted'.

The argument that was given to me is that, if I wrote my def statement as a 
general enough function, I could reuse the function at multiple points in the 
code.  This was mostly true for me, but there are some styles of code that I 
don't write too much (e.g. event-driven) so I can imagine that this might not 
be as applicable to others...

> | Well, if lambda is removed (or not , I hope an anonymous def 
> | expression is allowed, so we can write
> | 
> |    obj.f = def(args):
> |                body
> | or
> | 
> |    obj.f = def(args): body
> | 
> | or
> | 
> |    obj.f = (
> |        def(args):
> |            body
> |    ) 
> 
> Ewww.  How is this better than lambda? Let's keep lambda, no?

While I totally agree with the Ewww here, I think the point was to have full-
fledged anonymous functions, instead of lambdas, which are restricted to a 
single expression.  Of course, the syntax chosen for this is (to some degree, 
at least) arbitrary, but the idea would be to allow things like:

func(arg1, lambda arg2:
               self.update(arg2)
               return arg2*2)

My understanding is that no one's ever found an anonymous def syntax that 
everyone really likes, so I suspect the argument will continue to be "too ugly 
for too little gain in coding ease".  Especially since as soon as you really 
do need a multiline def, it only costs you one line to declare the function 
normally, and you don't get funny indentation:

def foo(arg2):
    self.update(arg2)
    return arg2*2
func(arg1, foo)

Steve



From ville at spammers.com  Sat Oct  2 06:37:25 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 02 Oct 2004 13:37:25 +0300
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
References: <4e4a11f8.0409232355.6ba0468d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.3834.1096015522.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
	<Jdc7d.280819$4o.95007@fed1read01>
	<ijbrl0tfkraor6fe316aettvc0sqas3q8a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <du7y8ipv21m.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Andrea" == Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> writes:

    >> through the face meetings here, not just net acquaintanceship)
    >> This guy was the technical editor for my book, and I know him
    >> to be not only technically brilliant but also an affable and
    >> congenial person).

    Andrea> Yes... I can very well understand that this is not the
    Andrea> Alex you know, but it's the Alex I know. Would you just
    Andrea> please blank out the names and read the messages instead ?

Doesn't help much.


    >>> that one is a problem he has with me and not the other way
    >>> around... may be he can try to find a solution inside himself
    >>> or talking to a good psychotherapist... I don't think I can be
    >>> of any help about it.

    >> Well, clearly not with an attitude like that. Frankly that's
    >> about as insulting as you should be getting around here. In
    >> fact I think you've gone too far. I preferred the sarcasm.

    Andrea> Can you take the time to read my messages in this thread
    Andrea> and Alex' replies to my messages, and tell me when was
    Andrea> that I passed the reasonable limit ?

Actually, you appeared to pass the reasonable limits for this
particular newsgroup. This newsgroup is noticeably friendlier than
most of the other newsgroups out there - I don't know why, it might be
a byproduct of some cosmic similarity between people who dig Python,
or just a nice, contagious tradition. 

What you might consider appropriate in a C++ newsgroup sticks out like
a sore thumb here. Going for Ad Hominem is always a bad idea,
especially when provoked by a purely technical discussion. I believe
you will learn to appreciate this tradition when you hang out more
around here. 

    Andrea> The problem (as I see it) started many years ago in a C++
    Andrea> newsgroup when I simply noted that at that time it was IMO
    Andrea> unfair to compare what the return code approach was
    Andrea> actually able to deliver (basically *all* the software we
    Andrea> were using at that time) with what the exception approach
    Andrea> was just promising.

I guess comparing the ups and downs is reasonable, rewriting a big
pile of code is a different thing. Surely you agree that in Python the
exceptions are the way to go?

    Andrea> off in complex systems (I think exceptions are just
    Andrea> wonderful in a few special cases - i.e. when you can
    Andrea> "rollback" or at least "restart" a subsystem - but they're
    Andrea> not a panacea in general when your program state is
    Andrea> complex, distributed and unprotected... the core problem I

Coding using exceptions is just much less ledious and
error-prone. Also, the code is much more readable when every line
doesn't have CroakIfError(stuff_that_needs_to_be_done()). Exceptions
are slighly less cool in C++ because of all the memory management
complications.

    Andrea> May be is the "pythonic" way to always privately import
    Andrea> and then bind functions to local names and doing all this
    Andrea> by using fake parameters with a default value ?

Of course not.

    Andrea> I was also quite suprised about the discussion moving to
    Andrea> the microseconds when if I care about microseconds the
    Andrea> python is a questionable choice. True that python is often
    Andrea> "fast enough", but If I've to write uglier code to get a
    Andrea> 1.2x speedup then I can do it with other languages instead
    Andrea> of using something that is *essentially* slow and get a
    Andrea> 10x speedup. Ugly for ugly I'd use C++ (or

1.2x speedup just isn't worth the ugly code, for typical
situations. Just go ahead and write pretty code, it's probably fast
enough as well. Premature optimization is the root of all evil.

    Andrea> But the key point is that your name is just not enough to
    Andrea> make drink what you say without thinking; sorry if this
    Andrea> sounds offending, but that philosophy is a part of me I
    Andrea> just can't shut off.

Name, perhaps not, but when you are a newbie at something, the more
experienced ones are right surprisingly often. Questioning stuff when
you are new is almost a rite of passage :-).

    Andrea> And (drumrolls) Alex Martelli name is surely not the
    Andrea> biggest I've had discussion with. By far.

Again, completely unnecessary.

People do get pissed off on usenet, for one reason or another. When I
feel insulted (once here, a few times elsewhere), I just like to point
out briefly that what the other guy said was insulting, and stop
there. Unlike in "real life", the parent comment is there for all to
see, and everyone can draw their own conclusions. Perhaps the other
guy had a bad day, or has some personal issues to sort out; rarely is
it worth it fire back. There are no "debate points" to score, and
nobody thinks that whoever wields the sharpest sarcasm wins. It's not
slashdot, we are here with our real names :-).

    Andrea> But tell me that

    Andrea> def foo(x,my_personal_cache_so_please_dont_pass_this_parm=[]):
    Andrea> ...

    Andrea> is beautiful and I can sign a paper where is stated that
    Andrea> you're either kidding or a dork.

It's not beautiful, but it works, and is already in the language. Come
on, you are an old C++ hand, you are used to dealing with the horrors
of chtulhuan proportions daily. I'm a C++ programmer as well, and
nothing in Python compares to the dirt I deal with every day. Private
cache in param list is a minor issue.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Oct 22 23:58:32 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:58:32 -0700
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3245042@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> [Robert Brewer]
> > But in general, I don't write scripts for my own limited use;
> > I'm writing frameworks, which shouldn't depend upon little
> > recipes scattered hither and yon. :/
> 
> Double hogwash ;-)
> 
> Just paste the relevant recipe in your code and be done.  No 
> need for code
> scattered hither and yon.  Just apply a pre-made solution 
> ready for re-use.

I get your point, but I *was* specifically answering Peter's question as
to why these recipes weren't "in my site-packages directory". I'm happy
to steal code whenever I can. ;) Sorry if I implied that the recipes
were unusable.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 09:45:52 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:45:52 +0200
Subject: Interface of the set classes
References: <41824654$0$1779$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1gmfcnn.1kc0foj1j6zq3hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> wrote:

> Ok, I first want to stress that I looked through the newsgroups archives
> (on Google) for an answer to my question, but I didn't find it.
> 
> It's about the interface of the set classes as defined in the PEP 218.

You should check out the built-in set type in 2.4 (the beta is quite
usable, go ahead and get it!) -- dunno if PEP 218 has been updated to
reflect exactly what's ended up in the language.

> I don't understand why the sets has an interface of mapping object 
> without associated value and not an interface of sequence ?

Sequences have order, sets don't.

> Then, why can't you at all access sets element by position ? As Python
> iterator are so poor (mainly, you cannot copy them ...) you have things

That's what itertools.tee is for (in Python 2.4).

> you cannot do without positionnal iteration (typically when you need to
> store the current position and go on the iteration to restart from the
> saved position later on).

Yep, the quintessential usecase of itertools.tee.

> Please, if this discussion already exists give me the pointer ... and
> don't tell me "because of implementation if over dictionnary" ... I 
> don't think that can be a good answer :o)

It would be false (in 2.4) -- set is a builtin type, side by side with
list and dict, not relying on either of them.


It may well be that, for whatever needs, you need a different container
type.  That's what the collections module in the standard library is for
(again, in 2.4) -- in 2.4 there's only deque in it, but that's the place
where, in 2.5, other collection types may go.  In my case, the main
reason I find myself using something other than set, for example, is
when I have non-hashable items.

The best way to get new collection types into Python 2.5 is to write
them now (pure Python, pyrex, C, whatever), publish them (Activestate
cookbook, sourceforge, whatever), get a user-base so that experience can
enhance them, _and_ also get involved in python-dev to make a PEP and
champion it.  No hurry, it's probably 18+ months to go to 2.5, but the
herein-suggested, soundest process to make it likely that one's changes,
in the best possible form, will get into 2.5's standard library, does
take its time, too;-)


Alex


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Wed Oct  6 19:07:31 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:07:31 +0100
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
In-Reply-To: <cuWdnZpWo5C76vncRVn-rQ@rogers.com>
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com> <cuWdnZpWo5C76vncRVn-rQ@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <ck1trn$r46$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Dan Perl wrote:

> I think that a more "pythonic" way to implement your class is with a change 
> in the definition of your __init__:
>     def __init__(self, foo_d=dict({})):
> This will create a separate copy for each one of your class instances 
> instead of the common object that you are creating in the definition of the 
> function.

Actually it does exactly what the original code did <wink>.

 >>> def x(d=dict({})): return d
...
 >>> a = x()
 >>> b = x()
 >>> a
{}
 >>> b
{}
 >>> a[3] = 4
 >>> b
{3: 4}

Taking out the {} doesn't help either.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Tue Oct 19 09:22:51 2004
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:22:51 +0100
Subject: Yet more SMTP
References: <mailman.5167.1098191849.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl34qm$ndu$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>


<exarkun at divmod.com> wrote in message news:mailman.5167.1098191849.5135.python-list at python.org...

>   Sure it does.  "Plain text" and "base64 encoded" aren't different in a way that makes any
difference.

Apart from the difference between 'working' and 'not working'.




From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 30 03:58:33 2004
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 00:58:33 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>	<698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>	<20041028102350.0BA3.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5631.1098993377.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0410292358.67b1c76a@posting.google.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.5631.1098993377.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 10:47:35AM -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > class BoundedInt(object):
> >     a = [0]
> >     def f(a):
> >         a[0] = 1
> >         return 1
> >     assert f(a)
> >     if a[0]:
> >         def __new__(cls, val, lower, upper):
> >             #body for creating new bounded int object...
> >             #only gets called if Python _is not run_ with -O option.
> >     else:
> >         def __new__(cls, val, lower, upper):
> >             #optimized version is a plain integer
> >             return val
> >     del f;del a #clean out the namespace
> >     #insert code for handling bounded integer arithmetic here
> 
> Is there a reason you didn't use 'if __debug__' here?

__debug__ can be re-assigned.  It has no effect on asserts (anymore;
this formerly was not the case, and I much preferred it that way) but
reassignments to it are still visible to the program.

Jeremy-Finchers-Computer:~/src/my/python/supybot/plugins jfincher$
python -O
Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> __debug__
False
>>> __builtins__.__debug__ = True
>>> __debug__
True
>>>


From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 14:38:56 2004
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 11:38:56 -0700
Subject: Is it possible to hide row/column lables in a wxPython Grid window?
Message-ID: <283adf56.0410041038.63c18466@posting.google.com>

I looked around the wiki, google, and CLP.  Does anybody know if this
is possible out of the box?


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Tue Oct  5 10:19:23 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:19:23 +0200
Subject: SegFault using deque in 2.4b3
In-Reply-To: <cjgvhs$c33$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
References: <cjgvhs$c33$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <cjuabb$ite$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Ok, I checked the current CVS-Version of deque and the bug is gone.

Thanks! :)

Stefan


From adurdin at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 04:44:25 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:44:25 +1100
Subject: python vs c#
In-Reply-To: <cjqvee$52d$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.4166.1096612732.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<9j6ul0db19k6rrmfjbs6kgjar0ldagfoji@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4233.1096845840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cjqvee$52d$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a041005014467455bdc@mail.gmail.com>

On 4 Oct 2004 07:51:42 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:23:58 +1100, Andrew Durdin <adurdin at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >"+a number +of * have" -- about 1,280,000 results
> >"+a number +of * has" -- about 28,800 results
> 
> Google seems to accept those quoted arguments, but I could not
> find '*' usage explained in the advanced search tips. Nor usage of
> special characters within quotes. Where did you find out about that?
> (And are you sure you need the +'s? The '*' does definitiely do something though.)

I put in the +'s because I wasn't certain whether Google would ignore
the "a" and "of" even though they were in quotes -- as it turns out,
they are unnecessary.
The * was a trick I picked up from reading Language Log (you'll find a
link earlier in this thread), but it (as well as many other useful
tips) is explained in the O'Reilly book "Google Hacks" which I
borrowed from a friend recently.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 17:51:03 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:51:03 +0200
Subject: Referencing objects own functions
References: <48a9916d.0410190745.4c9d0536@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1glxgoc.ytb70mbla970N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

pip <jackson.pip at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Pretend I have the following:
> 
> class foo:
>   commands = [
>     'name': 'help',
>     'desc': 'Print help',
>   ]
> 
>   def print_help(self):
>     print "Help is on the way!"
> 
> I would like to add another entry to the commands dict. called 'func'
> or something which contains a reference to a function in the foo
> class. What would the entry look like if atall possible?
> 
> I would rather not use eval if possible.

Wise (eval only in case of dire need:-).  I would use the name of the
method rather than the actual function object, for two reasons:
1. you can keep the commands dict BEFORE the def;
2. you can getattr and have the magic of descriptors work for you.

class foo:
     commands = dict(
         name='help',
         desc='Print help',
         func='print_help",
     )
 
     def print_help(self):
         print "Help is on the way!"

given an f=foo(), to call the 'func' you just need:

getattr(f, f.commands['func'])()

to get the same effect as f.print_help() would.  It doesn't get much
simpler, unless you instrument class foo (e.g. by inheriting from some
appropriate base class which wraps such operations into a nice readable
method).


Alex


From matt at mondoinfo.com  Tue Oct 19 15:24:46 2004
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:24:46 -0500
Subject: Building email threads from unix mailboxes
References: <1098138259.303424.280500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5157.1098169304.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1098204900.465892.151900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <matt-3F30D9.14244619102004@news.mpls.visi.com>

In article <1098204900.465892.151900 at z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
 "Jed Parsons" <jedp at ilm.com> wrote:

[Apologies if this arrives twice; my news server appears to have dropped 
my initial post.]

The best algorithm for threading email messages I've seen is Jamie 
Zawinski's. It's at:

http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html

I have an implementation in Python that's linked from:

http://www.mondoinfo.com/blog/C182263547/E1428845988/index.html

Regards,
Matt


From mr_rysiu at go2.pl  Fri Oct 29 17:53:32 2004
From: mr_rysiu at go2.pl (Krzysztof =?iso-8859-2?Q?Ksi=B1=BFek?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:53:32 +0200
Subject: py2exe and window with info about error
Message-ID: <el22e9rn34iw.dlg@cokolwiek.pl>

Hi!

As almost totally newbe, I have written a simple script and I'm proud of
it ;-) It connects to ftp server and uploads some files. Kind of backup.
I've compiled it with py2exe and put it in autostart.
When something is wrong (in example, I'm not connected to the net), it
opens a window with some information about error and exact location
where I can find log.
How can I get rid of this window? I'd like to have a log file, but I
don't want to see a popup during XP startup.

I have no idea if it is important, but here is my setup.py:

from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe
setup(windows=["script.py"])


Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards,
Krzysztof Ksiazek


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 02:22:15 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:22:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Help needed: cryptic perl regular expression in python syntax,
	Ugly solution
References: <bD7dd.1707$i81.1401@read3.inet.fi>
	<slrncna2rg.e49.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<41756F67.1060307@wlanmail.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041020T082028-129@post.gmane.org>

Pekka Niiranen <pekka.niiranen <at> wlanmail.com> writes:
> 
> I managed to solve my problem with code like this:
>  >>> line = '   s^\\?AAA\\?01^BBB^g; #Comment '
>  >>> r1 = '(^\\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\\\\\?\\\\??'
>  >>> key = "AAA\?01"
>  >>> r2 = '\\\\??)\\3(.*?)\\3(.*)'
>  >>> r = r1 + re.escape(key) + r2
>  >>> re.compile(r).findall(line)
> [('   ', 's', '^', '\\?AAA\\?01', 'BBB', 'g; #Comment ')]


Could you do something like:

>>> line = '   s^\\?AAA\\?01^BBB^g; #Comment '
>>> expr = r'(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\\?%s)\3(.*?)\3(.*)'
>>> matcher = re.compile(expr % re.escape("AAA\?01"))
>>> matcher.findall(line)
[('   ', 's', '^', '\\?AAA\\?01', 'BBB', 'g; #Comment ')]

Basically, I still use the r'' string so that I don't have to write so many 
backslashes, but then I use a %s to insert the "AAA\?01" into the middle of 
the expression.  Looks at least a little cleaner to me.

Steve



From paul at alanweberassociates.com  Mon Oct  4 15:25:52 2004
From: paul at alanweberassociates.com (paul at alanweberassociates.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:25:52 -0500
Subject: Search and Replace in a text.
Message-ID: <KLEAJDMDFDEIENJAENPLOEHGCFAA.paul@alanweberassociates.com>

This kind of adaptive search/replace is a good option for pyparsing transformString.  Using this mode, one only needs to define the 
patterns to be matched, and in the case of substitution, return
the desired output string in the appropriate parseAction routine.

--------------------------
from pyparsing import *

# define relevant grammar strings
layerDefn = "Layer:" + restOfLine
attrDefn = "Attr:" + Word(nums)
searchPatterns = ( layerDefn | attrDefn )

# initialize layerData in case we get an Attr before a Layer
layerData = "<ERROR> no layer found"

# parse action to run when encounter "Layer"
def saveLayerData(strg,loc,tokens):
    global layerData
    layerData = tokens[1].strip()
layerDefn.setParseAction( saveLayerData )

# parse action to run when encounter "Attr"
def pasteLayerData(strg,loc,tokens):
    return "Attr: " + layerData    
attrDefn.setParseAction( pasteLayerData )

# test results
testdata = """
Layer: Tv-Frame
Flags: 0x0
Attr: 1
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-pic
Flags: 0x2300
Attr: 1
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-shell
Flags: 0x0
Attr: 1
Focus Point: 0 0 0
"""

print searchPatterns.transformString( testdata )
--------------------------
(output)
Layer: Tv-Frame
Flags: 0x0
Attr: Tv-Frame
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-pic
Flags: 0x2300
Attr: Tv-pic
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-shell
Flags: 0x0
Attr: Tv-shell
Focus Point: 0 0 0



-- Paul McGuire
Download pyparsing at http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net
 

From alet at librelogiciel.com  Sat Oct 23 16:46:03 2004
From: alet at librelogiciel.com (Jerome Alet)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:46:03 +0200
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] PyKota v1.20 BETA is out !
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.23.20.46.02.993364@librelogiciel.com>

Hi,

I'm pleased to announce the immediate availability of PyKota v1.20 BETA.

PyKota is a GPLed print quota and accounting software for CUPS and LPRng
written in the Python language.

This software can store its datas either in LDAP or in a PostgreSQL
database, and features both hardware and software accounting.

Hardware accounting supports SNMP, PJL, Netatalk, or any other method you
may create yourself.

Software accounting natively supports PostScript, PDF, PCL3, PCL4, PCL5,
PCLXL (aka PCL6), and ESC/P2 but here too you can use your own accounting
software if you prefer.

In fact its great extensibility allows you to plug your own software at
most strategic points, giving an unprecedented versatility.

PyKota is available either in the form of 20 US$ yearly subscriptions to
Official packages (tarballs, .rpm and .deb), or for no fee through the use
of CVS.

Learn more about PyKota or download it from :

  http://www.librelogiciel.com/software/PyKota/action_Presentation

List of changes in 1.20BETA compared to 1.19 :
----------------------------------------------

  - Added internal handling of SNMP and PJL_over_TCP/9100 queries
    through the magic "hardware(snmp)" and "hardware(pjl)" accounter
    directives' values.
    This tremendously lowers the CPU usage because no subprocess has to be
    launched, and is generally much more reliable than using an external
    script. The use of external scripts is still allowed though, but
    internal handling is now the preferred way if your printer supports
    this.
    NB : For SNMP you need to install the http://pysnmp.sf.net module.
  
  - Introduction of the new dumpykota command which can dump PyKota's
    datas in the following formats :
    
        - comma separated values ;
        
        - semicolon separated values ;
        
        - tab separated values ;
        
        - XML.
        
    Importing datas in a spreadsheet can now be done through a data dump
    and import, in addition to using the PostgreSQL ODBC driver. This
    allows people who use the LDAP backend to create nice reports too.
        
  - Introduction of the new autopykota command to ease the automation
    of user account creation on first print when the limiting factor is
    their account balance's value : this commands takes care of a special
    case not directly handled by edpykota.
    
  - Introduced the notion of PyKota administrators (e.g. members
    of the lpadmin group) to delegate priviledges to non-root users. This
    is now enforced in dangerous commands like pkprinters, edpykota, as
    well as in the data dumper who could otherwise reveal private
    informations. The reporting tool and user warning tool accept to be
    run in extended mode by non-root users if they are PyKota
    administrators.
    
  - Numerous fixes for charset encoding. All textual
    fields are now stored as UTF-8 encoded strings.
    
  - Improvements in LPRng printer's hostname detection code.
  
  - An md5 checksum of each job's datas is now computed
    and exported to subprocesses as an environment variable. It will be
    added to the database schema in the future, this will allow the admin
    to refuse duplicate jobs through a configuration directive.
    
  - Added the winbind_separator configuration directive to
    automatically strip out the Windows/Samba domain name when printing.
    
  - Added the --hardreset command line option to edpykota
    to also reset users' life time page counters to 0 in addition to the
    actual page counter.
    
  - Added full support for PCL3 and ESC/P2 in software accounter.
    More than 60 GhostScript devices are now supported and checked when
    running the testsuite.
    Supported Page Description Languages are now :
    
        - DSC compliant PostScript ;
        
        - Binary PostScript ;
        
        - PDF ;
        
        - From PCL3 to PCL5 ;
        
        - PCL6 (aka PCLXL) ;
        
        - ESC/P2 ;
        
  - Improved the software accounter to correctly handle the
    number of copies if set in the job's datas (not PJL yet though).
    
  - All command line tools' help is now internationalized,
    as well as all manual pages.
    NB : For this BETA release only the English, French (and Belgian
    French), and Spanish help and manual pages are complete.
  
  - Added the German and Belgian-French translations.
  
  - Lots of small fixes all over the place.
  
Comments are very much welcome.

Thank you for reading.

Jerome Alet


From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Tue Oct 26 23:54:52 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 03:54:52 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <20041025224622.0B32.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5539.1098846893.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncnu70c.tiv.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:14:49 -0700 (PDT),
	kartik vaddadi <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
>
>> 
>> kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik) wrote:
>> 
>> > integers are used in different ways from strings.
>> i may expect file
>> > paths to be around 100 characters, and if i get a
>> 500-character path,
>> > i have no problem just because of the length. but
>> if a person's age is
>> > 500 where i expect it to be less than 100, then
>> **definitely**
>> > something's wrong.
>> 
>> So *you* need to do bounds checking.
>
> do you check every assignment for bounds? can you?
> overflow errors catch bugs when you dont do the
> checks. 

I don't check every assignment because in the vast majority of the time
I don't want overflow to happen I would much rather the computer just
use more space to store the number. If overflow happens the program
doesn't work and has to be modified to handle the larger data - if
python can make it "just work" then wonderful!

For those operations where bounds do matter then yes I do check them.
Relying on overflow has never been option since *never* have my bounds
happened to be exactly the same as those of the int type on whatever
machine/language I was using. Depending on the situation I may 
check each operation or I may just check the final result.

An overflow at 2^32-1 is never going to catch that one of the
"marks out of 100" is 103, so overflow will *never* catch bugs
for that code.

It would be a real hassle if I happened to have in the order
of 2^26 students and I couldn't calculate the average mark
because of a useless overflow error (ignoring that marking
all those exams would be slightly more of a problem :)

>> > as i look at my code, i rarely have an issue with
>> string sizes, but if
>> > an integer variable gets very large (say > 2**31
>> or 2**63), it
>> > generally reflects a bug in my code.
>> 
>> And you should check that, and not rely on a
>> misfeature and a mistake. 
>
> why do u want me to check something that the language
> can do? for precisely this reason, i consider this not
> to be a misfeature or a mistake.

Because in the majority of cases the language doing it makes life more
difficult.

You can always use a version of python which does what you want, or
write your own language which arbitrary limits on things like number
sizes and string lengths.

The rest of us living in the real world will be happy with a
language which provides correct behaviour with less code.

>
>> I don't rely on overflow errors. [...]
>> I prefer to check my variables when I rely on them.
>
> i never talked about *relying* on overflow errors to
> ensure the correctness of code. it's only a mechanism
> that catches bugs in some cases - & that's valuable.

That's not valuable at all. It encourages a "I won't bother doing bounds
checking on my operations since if I stuff up the language *might* catch
it if I get lucky and crash my program" style of programming that you
seem fond of.

Better to do bounds checking that will *always* catch it.

I take it you will never move to a 64 bit architecture since then your
"valuable" overflow errors will "catch bugs" in even fewer cases.

-- 
Sam Holden


From tim.peters at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 12:26:58 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:26:58 -0400
Subject: locks
In-Reply-To: <Xns9581ADCB8DF20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4835.1097670275.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qa-dnWDkDKi-uPDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4845.1097675044.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns958199317CD18duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.4854.1097677164.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns9581ADCB8DF20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1f7befae041013092619be7452@mail.gmail.com>

[Cliff Wells]
>> This suddenly gave me a smack on the head that list.append is
>> undoubtedly written in C and might, in fact, retain the GIL for the
>> duration of the function in which case the operation might, in fact, be
>> atomic (yes, I know that isn't necessarily what the above traceback was
>> saying, but it served as a clue-stick).

[Duncan Booth]
> Roughly correct. list.append is written in C and therefore you might assume
> it is atomic. However, it increases the size of a list which means it may
> allocate memory which could cause the garbage collector to kick in which in
> turn might free up cycles which could release references to objects with
> __del__ methods which could execute other byte code at which point all bets
> are off.

Not in CPython, no.  The only things that can trigger CPython's cyclic
gc are calling gc.collect() explicitly, or (from time to time)
creating a new container object (a new object that participates in
cyclic gc).  If list.append() can't get enough memory "on the first
try" to extend the existing list, it raises MemoryError.  And if a
thread is in the bowels of list.append, the GIL prevents any other
thread from triggering cyclic GC for the duration.


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Sat Oct  2 13:45:31 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 02 Oct 2004 13:45:31 -0400
Subject: "False exceptions?" (was Re: theme of the week: tools
References: <mailman.3802.1095960335.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<QcudnRef363plc7cRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<41542230.3070808@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.3864.1096040439.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mfydnUd5Idex1srcRVn-pQ@rogers.com>
	<tpudnXILROwO88rcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.3947.1096250696.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<kdWdndU_KZvAFcrcRVn-gQ@rogers.com> <4157FD67.80404@holdenweb.com>
	<efidneft_NO8p8XcRVn-tQ@rogers.com>
	<mailman.3996.1096354841.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Ku-dnW4Ddq1O_cTcRVn-tw@rogers.com> <uekkmibrv.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<WZydndBk-MS_OMTcRVn-ug@rogers.com> <u655yi527.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<d_mdnXKL0cmpVMTcRVn-jA@rogers.com> <u7jqb4afj.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<LsWdnXFrGuy2M8HcRVn-tQ@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <usm8x3tfo.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> writes:

> Interesting.  So it's actively attached to the process, not just listening 
> to it.  I would like to find out more about how this debug stub works.  The 
> Wing IDE reference manual doesn't get into details like that, but I can see 
> that one can also set breakpoints remotely.  That should mean that the stub 
> does quite a bit of work.

It's been a while, but if I recall the stub operates like a network
client, just connecting back to the IDE.  It tries to connect when
imported.  If it can't connect it sits around (in a background thread
I think) periodically trying - that shouldn't be much overhead.  But
when connected, it invokes the normal wing debugging code (e.g., the
same stuff used when debugging an app locally) which I'm assuming ties
into sys.settrace or equivalent and uses the network link to exchange
the information with the IDE.  I'm assuming sys.settrace or equivalent
since once connected you can explicitly interrupt the debuggee from
the IDE at any time.

> Since my previous posting on this thread I have discovered an interesting 
> utility for remote reporting of exceptions, although I couldn't try it: 
> http://egofile.com/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi.  My understanding is that it sends 
> an HTTP POST message.  That should mean that it's much less powerful than 
> the Wing IDE stub but it should be also less intrusive.

Depends on how it traps the exceptions.  If it's using something like
sys.excepthook, then yes, it should definitely be less intrusive (but
also unable to catch anything but unhandled exceptions).  But I would
expect any tool that is actively watching code at a finer granularity
is going to carry similar overhead to a debugger since they probably
all use the existing trace hooks in Python.

> And I also found win32traceutil 
> (http://www.python.org/windows/win32/#win32trace), which has quite a similar 
> use.  Of course, it's only for Windows, and I'm not sure whether it works 
> with the listener and the debugged process on different nodes.  But this is 
> something I may personally use.

I'm pretty sure this is local only.  You can get the source from the
PyWin32 package.  Last time I looked it used a memory mapped file (in
swap space) to hold data pending someone reading from it.  So it's
basically a simple inter-process pipe.  Importing it routes all
stdout/stderr to the trace file so yes it would be a way to catch
unhandled exceptions at least for logging purposes.

It's useful (particularly for when you want to get output from
background stuff like COM servers or GUI applications that for one
reason or another can't have a console during debugging), but strictly
for providing an alternate stdout/stderr stream.

-- David


From srumbalski at copper.net  Tue Oct  5 23:16:37 2004
From: srumbalski at copper.net (Steven Rumbalski)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:16:37 -0400
Subject: How do you write this in python
References: <8f17f4bc.0410022000.e331cbe@posting.google.com>
	<41603d90_1@newsfeed.slurp.net>
	<8f17f4bc.0410041645.630ee821@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416361c1_1@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Ali wrote:

> ok that looks close but can someone explain it to me section by section
> please?

Someone could, bu I have a better suggestion.  Go to python.org and pick a
tutorial that best fits your needs as a learner.  After you've put in the
groundwork, please come back and ask specific questions that show you are
grappling with learning python.  You will find the fine people in this
newsgroup very helpful when you learn to ask pointed questions that you
have already tried to answer for yourself.

--Steven Rumbalski


From whereU at now.com  Thu Oct  7 01:11:41 2004
From: whereU at now.com (Eric Pederson)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:11:41 -0800
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
Message-ID: <20041006211141.2033999173.whereU@now.com>

Andr? N?ss wrote:

> 
> One thing I liked about Lisp was the ability to use the question mark
> (and the exclamation mark) in function names. I found this
> particularily useful when checking boolean properties of a object like
> for example myObj.isContextSet. It just feels so much more natural to
> write myObj.contextSet?
> 
> I also found it neat that destructive operations were clearly marked
> with !.


I guess any programmer who likes LISP has an extra gear in their gear box (perhaps), but I think non-alphanumeric symbols in names reduce the readability.  We live in a world of text where words have letters in them, and punctuation means something different.  When I see punctuation my brain goes "STOP.  ABSORB SOME LOGIC BEFORE PROCEEDING."

sorry for the caps, but to my mind's eye punctuation symbols in names is like e-mail in all caps.


> Is there anything preventing this from being possible in Python?
> 


Maybe the desire to have visually clean code?

I think underneath it all some Python programmers really _miss_ the semicolon, and are dying to work more punctuation into the language to make it seem more complicated.  Then it will look more impressive.

<tongue_in_cheek />




Eric
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
domainNot="@something.com"
domainIs=domainNot.replace("s","z")
ePrefix="".join([chr(ord(x)+1) for x in "do"])
mailMeAt=ePrefix+domainIs
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


From Majordomo at lists.tislabs.com  Wed Oct 27 05:50:29 2004
From: Majordomo at lists.tislabs.com (Majordomo at lists.tislabs.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 05:50:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Majordomo results: Re: Approved
Message-ID: <200410270950.i9R9oTB05998@lists.tislabs.com>

--

>>>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
**** Command 'this' not recognized.
>>>> 
>>>> ------=_NextPart_000_0003_0000293F.00001451
**** Command '------=_nextpart_000_0003_0000293f.00001451' not recognized.
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;
**** Command 'content-type:' not recognized.
>>>> 	charset="Windows-1252"
**** Command 'charset="windows-1252"' not recognized.
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
**** Command 'content-transfer-encoding:' not recognized.
>>>> 
>>>> See the attached file for details.
**** Command 'see' not recognized.
>>>> 
>>>> ------=_NextPart_000_0003_0000293F.00001451
**** Command '------=_nextpart_000_0003_0000293f.00001451' not recognized.
>>>> Content-Type: text/html;
**** Command 'content-type:' not recognized.
>>>>    name="all_document.pif.htm"
**** Command 'name="all_document.pif.htm"' not recognized.
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
**** Command 'content-transfer-encoding:' not recognized.
>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment;
**** Command 'content-disposition:' not recognized.
>>>>     filename="all_document.pif.htm"
**** Command 'filename="all_document.pif.htm"' not recognized.
>>>> X-NAI-Gauntlet: Attachment removed
**** Command 'x-nai-gauntlet:' not recognized.
>>>> 
>>>> <html><head><meta HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=">
**** Command '<html><head><meta' not recognized.
>>>> <title>VIRUS INFECTION ALERT</title></head>
**** Command '<title>virus' not recognized.
>>>> <body>
**** Command '<body>' not recognized.
>>>> <h1><font color="#FF0000">VIRUS INFECTION ALERT</font></h1>
**** Command '<h1><font' not recognized.
>>>> <p>The Gauntlet Firewall&reg discovered a virus in this file.
**** Command '<p>the' not recognized.
>>>> The file was not repaired and has therefore been removed.
**** Command 'the' not recognized.
>>>> See your system administrator for further information.
**** Command 'see' not recognized.
>>>> </p>
**** Command '</p>' not recognized.
>>>> <p>Filename: all_document.pif<br>
**** Command '<p>filename:' not recognized.
>>>> Virus name: W32/Netsky.d at MM</p>
**** Command 'virus' not recognized.
>>>> 
>>>> <p>Copyright &copy; 1993-2001, Networks Associates Technology, Inc.<br>
**** Command '<p>copyright' not recognized.
>>>>  All Rights Reserved.<br>
**** Command 'all' not recognized.
>>>> <a href="http://www.pgp.com">http://www.pgp.com</a></p>
**** Command '<a' not recognized.
>>>>   </body></html>
**** Command '</body></html>' not recognized.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------=_NextPart_000_0003_0000293F.00001451--
**** Command '------=_nextpart_000_0003_0000293f.00001451--' not recognized.
>>>> 
>>>> 
**** No valid commands found.
**** Commands must be in message BODY, not in HEADER.

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used to remove your address from the list.  However, in most cases, you
may simply send the command "unsubscribe" followed by the list name:

	unsubscribe demo-list

(This command may fail if your provider has changed the way your
address is shown in your mail.)

To remove an address other than the one from which you're sending
the request, give that address in the command:

	unsubscribe demo-list jqpublic at my-isp.com

In either of these cases, you can tell Majordomo at lists.tislabs.com to remove
the address in question from all lists on this server by using "*"
in place of the list name:

	unsubscribe *
	unsubscribe * jqpublic at my-isp.com

IV.	FINDING THE LISTS TO WHICH AN ADDRESS IS SUBSCRIBED

To find the lists to which your address is subscribed, send this command
in the body of a mail message to Majordomo at lists.tislabs.com:

	which

You can look for other addresses, or parts of an address, by specifying
the text for which Majordomo should search.  For instance, to find which
users at my-isp.com are subscribed to which lists, you might send the
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	which my-isp.com

Note that many list owners completely or fully disable the "which"
command, considering it a privacy violation.

V.	FINDING OUT WHO'S SUBSCRIBED TO A LIST

To get a list of the addresses on a particular list, you may use the
"who" command, followed by the name of the list:

	who demo-list

Note that many list owners allow only a list's subscribers to use the
"who" command, or disable it completely, believing it to be a privacy
violation.

VI.	RETRIEVING FILES FROM A LIST'S ARCHIVES

Many list owners keep archives of files associated with a list.  These
may include:
- back issues of the list
- help files, user profiles, and other documents associated with the list
- daily, monthly, or yearly archives for the list

To find out if a list has any files associated with it, use the "index"
command:

	index demo-list

If you see files in which you're interested, you may retrieve them by
using the "get" command and specifying the list name and archive filename.
For instance, to retrieve the files called "profile.form" (presumably a
form to fill out with your profile) and "demo-list.9611" (presumably the
messages posted to the list in November 1996), you would put the lines

	get demo-list profile.form
	get demo-list demo-list.9611

in your mail to Majordomo at lists.tislabs.com.

VII.	GETTING MORE HELP

To contact a human site manager, send mail to Majordomo-Owner at lists.tislabs.com.
To contact the owner of a specific list, send mail to that list's
approval address, which is formed by adding "-approval" to the user-name
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for demo-list at lists.tislabs.com, you would send mail to demo-list-approval at lists.tislabs.com.

To get another copy of this help message, send mail to Majordomo at lists.tislabs.com
with a line saying

	help

in the message body.

VIII.	COMMAND SUMMARY FOR ADVANCED USERS

In the description below items contained in []'s are optional. When
providing the item, do not include the []'s around it.  Items in angle
brackets, such as <address>, are meta-symbols that should be replaced
by appropriate text without the angle brackets.

It understands the following commands:

    subscribe <list> [<address>]
	Subscribe yourself (or <address> if specified) to the named <list>.
	
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	Unsubscribe yourself (or <address> if specified) from the named <list>.
	"unsubscribe *" will remove you (or <address>) from all lists.  This
	_may not_ work if you have subscribed using multiple addresses.

    get <list> <filename>
        Get a file related to <list>.

    index <list>
        Return an index of files you can "get" for <list>.

    which [<address>]
	Find out which lists you (or <address> if specified) are on.

    who <list>
	Find out who is on the named <list>.

    info <list>
	Retrieve the general introductory information for the named <list>.

    intro <list>
	Retrieve the introductory message sent to new users.  Non-subscribers
	may not be able to retrieve this.

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	Show the lists served by this Majordomo server.

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	Retrieve this message.

    end
	Stop processing commands (useful if your mailer adds a signature).

Commands should be sent in the body of an email message to
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"Majordomo-Owner at lists.tislabs.com".



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 05:44:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:44:44 +0200
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8dkd.1mk43di1xi6v0dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2ZO8d.4763$gk.1267@okepread01>
Message-ID: <1gl8g9u.1jydypv12qguh1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
   ...
> >>As part of a pet project of mine, I needed to find a way to re-execute
> >>a class declaration[1]. The reason behind it was simple: the class
   ...
> > If you start calling it 'class statement' I may read and perhaps help
> > with the rest of your post, but since I consider calling 'declaration'
   ...
> How would you feel about "class definition"?

Since we have a 'def' statement it seems confusing to me to talk of
'definition' about something else than a 'def' (even there I prefer "a
def statement" as clearer and more direct, but I guess I'll have to
accept "a function definition" given ``def''... I do wish that keyword
was 'function' rather than 'def', but, oh well, too late for that;-).


Alex


From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Oct 15 05:52:17 2004
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:52:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: GUI wrapper for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython
References: <mailman.4573.1097237841.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ck8aib$58d$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<newscache$u0ab5i$7lm$1@asterix.tee.gr>
	<ck8gkl$q0j$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <slrncmv7eh.1sm.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <ck8gkl$q0j$1 at ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>, Bats wrote:
>Stelios Xanthakis had this to say:
>
>> Maybe copy the wrap_*.py files into examples/
>> and ./run2.py from in there?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Stelios
>It doesn't help.
>
>I am sure its a problem on my system with two versions of Python installed.
>I get all kinds of sh*t because of that. 
>Lemme know if you make sense of that error.
>
>PS - Love the wrapper idea; high time it was done. I don't know much about
>(read nothing) Curses, but could that not also sneak into the wrappers?

You might want to take a look at Anygui (anygui.sf.net). Not really
actively developed at the moment, but perhaps a source of inspiration.
It also has support for curses.

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland       Fallen flower I see / Returning to its branch
http://hetland.org       Ah! a butterfly.           [Arakida Moritake]


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 05:33:07 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:33:07 GMT
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <69cbbef2.0410050013.2628196d@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<69cbbef2.0410050013.2628196d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <nTt8d.3155$UP1.1886@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

has wrote:

> For real macros, you'll have to go to Lisp or Lisp derivatives such as
> Dylan. The rest of the programming world is still catching up to 1958.
> :p

http://www.dreamsongs.com/NewFiles/Hopl2.pdf
] Macros appear to have been introduced into Lisp by Timothy
] P. Hart in 1963 in a short MIT AI Memo [Hart, 1963]

So we've got an extra 5 years to spare ;)

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From grante at visi.com  Sun Oct 10 11:24:21 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 15:24:21 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<du7fz4n6ozx.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <41695425$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-10, Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "Grant" == Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
>
>    Grant> I don't know what you mean by that.  Nobody seems to have a
>    Grant> problem with "and" "or" and "not" operators using the truth
>    Grant> values of strings.  What is there about "xor" that
>    Grant> precludes it from behaving similarly?
>
> It's just that logical xor is an extremely rare beast.

Probably so, but that doesn't support the arguement that
there's something wrong with a logical xor argument coercing
it's operands to boolean values unless one also argues that
the logical "and", "or" and "not" operators should also not
coerce their operands to booleans.

> I would probably prefer to see the operation expanded to the
> more typical and-or-nots in real code.

If logical operators shouldn't coerce operands, then what you
should see is:

 if (bool(string1) and (not bool(string2)) or ((not bool(string1)) and bool(string2))
 
-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  A shapely CATHOLIC
                                  at               SCHOOLGIRL is FIDGETING
                               visi.com            inside my costume...


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  8 09:09:48 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:09:48 -0400
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4522.1097173984.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>	<864d37090410070250210881d2@mail.gmail.com><mailman.4488.1097144029.5135.python-list@python.org>	<41656D52.5090903@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.4522.1097173984.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zbidndU9vdoBDPvcRVn-rA@powergate.ca>

Tim Williams wrote:
> I have implemented your suggestion ,   but what is the best way to get the
> data out of the file-like object,   the only option that seems to work for
> me is
> 
> f.getvalue()
> 
> which returns a string,  but getvalue() doesn't "feel" right somehow.   Am I
> missing something ?

I've never felt the name "spoke to me" very well either :-), but
it is the correct way to do it.

Note also, regarding Steve's suggestion, that for simplicity
in a small program you don't need to save sys.stdout if you
are doing that just to restore it later, because sys.__stdout__
is always the original value and a quick sys.stdout == sys.__stdout__
will do the trick.

-Peter


From Anna at nospam.invalid  Sun Oct  3 03:30:55 2004
From: Anna at nospam.invalid (Ann)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 07:30:55 GMT
Subject: newbie permission problem
References: <wAL7d.99503$wV.12017@attbi_s54> <7sN7d.593248$gE.589623@pd7tw3no>
Message-ID: <PUN7d.296691$mD.66455@attbi_s02>


"Sol Mumey" <smumeyyahoocom at add.dots> wrote in message
news:7sN7d.593248$gE.589623 at pd7tw3no...
> Ann wrote:
> > I am new to python. I have a small program that
> > deletes small jpeg files, but I am getting a
> > permission error, even though I am the owner of the
> > file and the directory has 777 permission. I have
> > WIN XP Pro. I have mks toolkit "ls" command.
> > Login name is "Philip"
> >
> > -------------
> >
> > 36      45      border_l_r2_c3.gif is tiny      <- printed by program
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "C:\test2.py", line 28, in ?
> >     os.remove(d) # delete the tiny files
> > OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'border_l_r2_c3.gif'
> >
> > C:\>ls -ld . border_l_r2_c3.gif
> > drwxrwsrwx   1 Philip   None     0 Oct  2 23:40 .
> > -rwxrwxrwa   1 Philip   None   398 Oct  2 22:42 border_l_r2_c3.gif
> >
> >
> Are you sure that the unix-style permission reported by ls are
> reflecting the true permissions (and read only attribute) on the file.
> We use Cygwin at work, at the permissions reported by ls, etc. are
> meaningless with our installation (though that need not be the case with
> Cygwin). From the commandline I think you can check/set this with
> attrib.exe, if a bunch need to be checked/changed.

Yes, I'm not so sure about the output of "ls" myself. (note the 'a'
where I would expect an 'x' for the file) I did try the
attrib command, but it only showed that the directory is "system"
and the file is "archive". Also, I created the file via under my
account (ls shows owner = Philip) and I can delete it manually with
"rm" or "del" or with a perl script just fine. I also tried using
"os.unlink(d)" with the same results. I found another command
lsacl to list the access control list, it gives this: (YOGA is my
workstation name)

C:\>lsacl border-l-r2-c3.gif
border-l-r3-c3[1].gif:
 ACE: Allow YOGA\Philip            -
R,W,X,A,DC,RE,WE,RA,WA,D,RC,WD,O,S
 ACE: Allow NT+AUTHORITY\SYSTEM    -
R,W,X,A,DC,RE,WE,RA,WA,D,RC,WD,O,S
 ACE: Allow BUILTIN\Administrators -
R,W,X,A,DC,RE,WE,RA,WA,D,RC,WD,O,S




From paul.bissex at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 23:25:08 2004
From: paul.bissex at gmail.com (Paul Bissex)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:25:08 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <1001523104100420251887d96a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:10:39 -0400, Richard Blackwood
<richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
> Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following
> support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*
> 
> 1. Multi line comments
[items 2 through 45 mercifully omitted]


Wow. Obsessive-compulsive trolling.

-- 
paul bissex, e-scribe.com -- database-driven web development
413.585.8095
69.55.225.29
01061-0847
72?39'71"W 42?19'42"N


From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Oct 18 14:10:05 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:10:05 GMT
Subject: UNIX-style sort in Python?
In-Reply-To: <cl0upv$kdm$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <I-6dnfLpv8Gzl-7cRVn-sw@comcast.com>
	<akEcd.8228$gy1.757@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gluhuw.1yq6gn51631vg6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<PMScd.270$%h1.154@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cl0upv$kdm$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1GTcd.317$%h1.228@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Michael Hoffman wrote:
> Me too. Could the grammar conceivably be changed so that it works 
> without the parantheses there?

Unlikely.  As I recall Python deliberately uses only a
lookahead-1 to resolve ambiguities.


Or see PEP 202

] BDFL Pronouncements
]
]    - The form [x, y for ...] is disallowed; one is required to write
]      [(x, y) for ...].


It could be made an arbitrary lookahead in theory, but
as I recall Guido has also said doesn't want that because
it makes human parsing more complex as well.

Can't find a ready citation for that though.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From gregor.jan at NOSPAMquick.cz  Sat Oct  2 14:04:53 2004
From: gregor.jan at NOSPAMquick.cz (Jan Gregor)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 20:04:53 +0200
Subject: Using python to convert PDF document to MSWord documents
References: <20040928161317.88987.qmail@web8401.mail.in.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4018.1096389067.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncltre4.3fl.gregor.jan@ins1.opera.com>

> Can anyone please suggest me if  there any python modules available to
> convert PDF document to MSWord documents. If not then can you please
> suggest how can i acheive this.

I think that there's no specification of doc format. Pdf and doc are also
different class of formats. So you can extract text (with ghostscript
frontend ps2ascii and hope in right encoding), and pictures. Typesetting
of word document is your work.

Maybe conversion pdf to html and import of html to word can be better
way - but again, you go from stronger language to weaker.


Jan


From grante at visi.com  Sat Oct  9 15:04:51 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 09 Oct 2004 19:04:51 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-09, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
>
>> Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for
>> detecting if two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for
>> strings shouldn't be supported. Am I missing something?
>
> The basic problem is that there is no obvious "xor on string" operation

Sure there is.  Strings have a boolean value, and the xor
operation on boolean values is well-defined.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Are you mentally here
                                  at               at Pizza Hut??
                               visi.com            


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 20:26:48 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:26:48 -0400
Subject: [Possible Bug-Python2.3.2] MD5 module?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4915.1097708873.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4915.1097708873.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <r8qdnd3_BaxbWvDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>

Jean-Guillaume Paradis wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>    I've tried to use the md5 module of python 2.3.3, and the results of 
> a hash do not concord with those of reference sites such as 
> http://bfl.rctek.com/tools/?tool=hasher
> 
>    I call it using
> 
>    import md5
>    m = md5.new()
>    m.update("a")
>    print m.hexdigest()
> 
> 
>    I have not checked if the problem is the same on more recent version 
> though

Try again.  The two examples you cite, though you for some reason
didn't bother showing your actual output, both produce the same
result for me, namely:

 >>> import md5
 >>> m = md5.new()
 >>> m.update('a')
 >>> print m.hexdigest()
0cc175b9c0f1b6a831c399e269772661


And from the source for the rctek.com web page mentioned above, aftering
entering "a" in the box:

<label for="string">Enter a string to hash:
<input type="text" id="string" name="string" value="a" /></label>
<input type="submit" value="Submit" class="submit" />
<label for="hash">Hash of string:
<input type="text" id="hash" value="0cc175b9c0f1b6a831c399e269772661" 
readonly="readonly" /></label>


-Peter


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct 29 23:57:23 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 03:57:23 GMT
Subject: Regex speed
In-Reply-To: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <DiEgd.6304$kM.2345@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> re1 = re.compile(r"\s*<.*>\s*")
> re2 = re.compile(r".*\((.*)\).*")
> re3 = re.compile(r'^"(.*)"$')

BTW, do you want those or
  re1 = re.compile(r"\s*<[^>]*>\s*")
  re2 = re.compile(r".*\(([^)]*)\).*")

(For the last it doesn't make much difference.  There will only be
a single backtrack.)

For that matter, what about
  re2 = re.compile(r"\(([^)]*)\)")
then using re2.search instead of re2.match?

> So my question is: Why is the re module implemented in pure Python?
> Isn't it possible to integrate it into the core or rewrite it in C?

It isn't.  It's written in C.  I've not done timing tests
between Perl and Python's engines for a long time, so I can't
provide feedback on that aspect.

One thing about Python is that we tend to use regexps less
often than Perl.  For example, you may be able to use

def find_text_in_matching_pairs(text, start_c = "<", end_c = ">"):
   i = text.find(start_c)
   if i == -1:
     return None
   j = text.find(end_c, i)
   if j == -1:
     return None
   return text[i+i:j]

(If you instead what your original regexp says, use
def find_text_in_matching_pairs(text, start_c = "<", end_c = ">"):
   i = text.find(start_c)
   if i == -1:
     return None
   j = text.rfind(end_c)
   if j < i:  # includes 'j == -1' on find failure
     return None
   return text[i+1:j]


def find1(text):
   return find_text_in_matching_pairs(text, "<", ">")

def find2(text):
   return find_text_in_matching_pairs(text, "(", ")")

def find3(text):
   if text.startswith('"') and text.endswith('"'):
     return text[1:-1]
   return None

> Is there a Python interface for the PCRE library out there?

Python used to use PCRE instead of its current sre, back
in the 1.5 days.  Python 1.6/2.x switched to sre in part
because of the need for Unicode support.

The old benchmarks compared pcre and sre and found that
sre was faster.  See
   http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&selm=an_588925502

Which versions of Python and Perl are you using for
the tests?  I know there has been some non-trivial work
for the 2.3 version of Python.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From aurora00 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 17 19:23:24 2004
From: aurora00 at gmail.com (aurora)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:23:24 -0700
Subject: Is it ok to use  -->  obj = object()?
Message-ID: <opsf1e9aww6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>

Sometimes I find it useful to create an instance of some dummy class so  
that I can bind abitrary attributes to it. I sometimes prefer this to  
mapping object.


>>> class A: pass
...
>>> a = A()
>>> a.x = 1


>>> class B(object): pass
...
>>> b = B()
>>> b.x = 1


Rather that creating a dummy class, why not just instantiate from the  
object class? However:

>>> obj = object()
>>> obj.x = 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'object' object has no attribute 'x'


I know I must have misunderstood something. Can you tell me what was wrong?


From thomas.sunshine at web.de  Fri Oct 29 13:15:02 2004
From: thomas.sunshine at web.de (Thomas M.)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:15:02 +0200
Subject: List problem
Message-ID: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Hello,

i have a question on the following code.


test_list = [1, 2, 3]

for i in test_list:
   print i

   if 1 in test_list:
      test_list.remove(1)


Why is the second item not print ?
Is that a bug or a feature ?!


Thanks,
Thomas


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 14 13:17:11 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:17:11 -0700
Subject: question on list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <ckm58j$dgj$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <416e951c$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<ckm58j$dgj$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <20041014101143.095D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> OK. As usual, I am having trouble clearly expressing myself. Sorry about
> that. Prepare for some physics:
> 
> I am simulating diffraction from an array of particles. I have to calculate
> a complex array for each particle, add up all these arrays, and square the
> magnitude of the result. If I do a for loop, it takes about 6-8 seconds for
> a 2000 element array added up over 250 particles. In reality, I will have
> 2500 particles, or even 2500x2500 particles. 
> 
> The list comprehension takes only 1.5 seconds for 250 particles. Already,
> that means the time has decreased from 40 hours to 10, and that time can be
> reduced further if python is not constantly requesting additionaly memory
> to grow the resulting list. 
> 
> I guess that means that I would like to avoid growing the list and popping
> the previous result if possible, and just over-write the previous result.

Download scientific python: http://www.scipy.org/
And get your linear algebra on.  Using Numeric arrays, the size of the
matrices (because they are matrices) are much smaller than the size of
an equivalent Python list of lists, so memory may stop being a concern.

 - Josiah



From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Thu Oct 14 18:42:48 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:42:48 -0400
Subject: Using pickle with setattr
In-Reply-To: <416CA456.8070409@kzoo.edu>
References: <416CA456.8070409@kzoo.edu>
Message-ID: <416F00E8.1060601@kzoo.edu>

dataangel wrote:

> For the project I'm working on right now I'm dealing with a lot of 
> class objects that I plan to be changing at run-time through the 
> get/has/setattr functions. I'm wondering whether or not the standard 
> Pickle module will handle this or not -- will an object pickle 
> correctly if it has methods that are not in its original class 
> definition? The wiki tells me it doesn't work correctly if you save an 
> object of a class, then change that class and load the object. That 
> I'm not planning to do -- I'm changing the attributes of the object 
> itself.
>
> If it won't, what are my options? Also, is there a module available 
> for saving the complete state of an object such that it is loadable 
> without the python source for the original class?
>
I'm flabbergasted. Nobody on the python mailing list knows? I've stumped 
the experts? ;)

Or maybe my question is stupid for somer reason? :P

*bump* (Pardon me if this is considered excessively rude here, I'm new)



From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Oct 26 19:47:48 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:47:48 +0200
Subject: Python Sockets Question
In-Reply-To: <10ntnlblsp7el84@corp.supernews.com>
References: <10nt00un4qj6q4d@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.5523.1098821472.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10ntnlblsp7el84@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <417ee224$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Maboroshi wrote:
> Hey thanks man Ya I was using TCP at first, to be honest this project 
> has changed so many times I will have to look further into those modules
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Andrew

If you don't really care about the low-level network programming,
you could also consider using Pyro (http://pyro.sourceforge.net).
It includes a high level event server that makes it very easy
to create multi-client chat applications. There's an example included.

--Irmen


From noone at here.com  Tue Oct  5 12:29:55 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:29:55 +0100
Subject: Alex if you have any patience left please look at this
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjrvna$rf4$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjs36a$c14$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<1gl5l5t.k9lpmq1rn8gt5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cjsj9g$bh8$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cjui27$dj3$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi Alex,

I can't get this to run. Could you help?

import random

sequence = ['item1','item2','item1']

previous = None

def weird_appender(sequence):
    first_time_choices = {'item1': 'abc', 'item2': 'def', }
    choices = { None: first_time_choices,
                'item1': {'item1': 'blu', 'item2': 'ghi', },
                'item2': {'item1': 'jkm', 'item2': 'nop', }
              }
    previous = None
    d = choices.get(previous, first_time_choices)
    choose = d.get(item, [''])
    previous = item + random.choice(choose)
    yield previous

print list(weird_appender(sequence))


#    yield item + random.choice(choose)
#    previous = item


#    previous = item + random.choice(choose)
#    yield previous


Thanks,

Malcolm




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct 12 21:29:40 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:29:40 -0500
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
In-Reply-To: <416c7e11.110043444@news.oz.net>
References: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gljwcn.hu8qmfo9di8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416c7e11.110043444@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <20041013012940.GC32019@unpythonic.net>

I think it's a difference in new-style classes that __getattr__ doesn't
have a chance to run when searching for special methods.

I'm sure this is documented, but I didn't see it in
http://python.org/2.2.2/descrintro.html

Jeff
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From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 12 08:11:07 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:11:07 +0100
Subject: ANN: Snakelets 1.35 (simple-to-use web app server with dynamic
 pages)
In-Reply-To: <416afed7$0$10528$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <416ae4b9$0$78749$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<buCad.33195$Z14.12881@news.indigo.ie>
	<416afed7$0$10528$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <kRPad.33244$Z14.13159@news.indigo.ie>

[Alan Kennedy]
 >> Have you considered maybe porting Snakelets to WSGI? WSGI is a new
 >> server/gateway standard for portability of python web frameworks, and
 >> is specified in PEP 333.
 >>
 >> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0333.html

[Irmen de Jong]
 > Errm, I was only very vaguely aware of something like the WSGI,
 > and apparently totally missed the surfacing of PEP 333.
 > Thanks for dropping the link, I will certainly study it.
 >
 > Based upon your comments below, I'm almost certain that there
 > will be some form of WSGI in a future Snakelets version.

Sounds great. I'm sure you won't regret putting in the work to port 
Snakelets to WSGI.

I'll do my best to answer your questions.

 >> WSGI specifies a HTTP API which is implementable on most conceivable
 >> web platforms. Code built on this API is fully portable to
 >
 > [...]
 >
 > Does it achieve this by providing a least common denominator featureset?
 > How does it deal with the way the server is structured (threading,
 > sessions, shared resources)?  I'm sorry- if this is in PEP-333, I'll
 > find out soon enough :)

The feature set is pretty much a lowest common denominator. But don't 
mistake that for meaning that it's simplistic: it's not. WSGI is really 
an interface that has factored out all of the possible complexity 
associated with dealing multi-threading, mutli-processing, etc, etc, and 
which enables applications and frameworks to make a choice on how they 
operate, depending on how the containing WSGI server has been configured.

As for sessions, shared resources, page templating, etc, etc, these are 
application and framework concerns, not server concerns: therefore WSGI 
is currently agnostic in relation to these areas. However, WSGI also 
introduces the concept of "middleware", which are portable components 
that stack together to make or augment application frameworks. Again, 
probably best if you read the spec rather than me repeat it all here.

 >> Porting to WSGI would bring the following benefits
 >>
 >> 1. The ability to run Snakelets under any WSGI server/gateway, e.g.
 >> mod_python, CGI, BaseHTTPServer, etc, etc. (No WSGI adapters seem to
 >> exist for Twisted, Medusa or Zope though: the asynch API is still
 >> under discussion on the web-sig).
 >
 > Users of asynch-API servers usually smile broadly when confronted with
 > worried users of 'old-skool' multiprocessing or multithreading servers.
 > It is my understanding that the latter server type (which Snakelets is
 > also a part of) doesn't scale very well to many concurrent connections.
 > If that is true, it seems to me that WSGI should somehow also provide
 > for the asynch programming style, because the "big guys" will be using
 > that one? Or am I way off here?

Ah, one of the key questions! And the answer is that, iff you write 
Snakelets according to the WSGI API, then it should be easily usable on 
asynchronous architectures. This is achieved through the use of python 
iterators (e.g. generators), so that application frameworks generate 
content on demand, when the server/gateway is ready to transmit them.

Threaded WSGI servers would maintain a pool of threads to process 
application requests, with each sitting in a loop iterating over the 
applications output, and transmitting it immediately to the client.

Asynchronous servers would maintain a pool of connections, with 
application objects corresponding to each connection. When a connection 
was ready to receive data, the server would get the next piece of data 
from the application iterator, and send it down the wire. If a 
connection was not ready to receive data, the corresponding application 
iterator would be skipped.

It will all become clearer if you read the WSGI spec.

 >> 2. The ability to factor out the need (and maintenance burden,
 >> security exposure, etc) for a custom standalone server, i.e. instead
 >> use a standard server, e.g. BaseHTTPWSGIServer, and get automatic
 >> threading or forking support, etc.
 >
 >
 > I'm not sure how WSGI should help me achieve this. I thought that it
 > was an API for web application builders.... not for the implementors
 > of the application server?

There are two halves to the WSGI API:

1. The server/gateway side, i.e. the bit *implements* the API.
2. The application/framework side, i.e. the bit that *uses* the API.

In relation to your custom standalone python server, it could be 
replaced by a WSGI server/gateway. The rest of Snakelets would then be 
modified to use the WSGI API, meaning that it would be portable to any 
WSGI server or gateway. There's nothing to stop you modifying the 
Snakelets standalone server so that it too implements the WSGI API. That 
means that other people could then use it as their WSGI server.

So basically, porting Snakelets to WSGI would mean splitting Snakelets 
into two parts, the server part and the framework part, with all 
communications between the two governed by WSGI. Both parts would then 
become interoperable with other WSGI components. Neat, eh?

 >> 3. Possibly run Snakelets on Java/Jython! The latter is only possible
 >> if Snakelets is 2.1 compliant, i.e. does not use python 2.2 or 2.3
 >> features.
 >
 >
 > Too bad, I'm using generators (amongst others) and those are unavailable
 > in Python 2.1.  I have no intentions of backporting to Python 2.1.

Oh well. Such a shame that jython is stuck at 2.1. (although a little 
impatience is beginning to surface on jython-dev).

But the upside of Snakelets using generators is that I think you will 
find that Snakelets architecture fits WSGI extremely well. Although WSGI 
supports an old-style imperative API, i.e. where input and output is 
explicitly read/written to IO channels, it is really designed so that 
applications/frameworks supply content on demand, through an iterator 
interface. Meaning that applications and frameworks should work 
seamlessly across threaded *and* event based servers. Again, this will 
become clearer on reading the WSGI spec.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct 30 11:10:23 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:10:23 +0200
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <Rpudnd8nENL5MR7cRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<HNedne3QcamF4h7cRVn-3g@speakeasy.net>
	<1099144064.931829.257240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<2uhl84F2ahviqU1@uni-berlin.de> <cm08pl$9cd$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<Rpudnd8nENL5MR7cRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <2uhp6vF2bg2kdU1@uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Michael Hoffman wrote:
>> Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
>> 
>>> C. Functions that could be made attributes of lists/sequences
>>>
>>> max, min, len, enumerate, sum
>>>
>>> But that would require to implement them for all sequence types or
>>> implement a common basetype 'seq'.
>> 
>> And iterators?
> 
> And dicts.  And ....

Exactly the problem.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From rtilley at vt.edu  Mon Oct 18 21:38:36 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:38:36 -0400
Subject: Yet more SMTP
In-Reply-To: <20041018200308.07480.00002407@mb-m18.aol.com>
References: <20041018200308.07480.00002407@mb-m18.aol.com>
Message-ID: <cl1r6p$jah$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

LutherRevisited wrote:
> Ok with some tweaking I got it to where I could send through my local isp's
> smtp server, but I am restricted to sending the message from my ISP's mail
> account.  When I respond to Yahoo mail, I want to use my yahoo address.  I was
> able to get into aol's smtp with:
> s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.aol.com', 587)
>         s.set_debuglevel(1)
>         s.ehlo()
>         s.docmd('AUTH', 'PLAIN')
>         s.docmd('LutherRevisited')
>         s.docmd('myPassword')
>         s.sendmail('lutherrevisited at aol.com', [to], msg)
>         s.quit()
> but I'm unable to send on that server with my yahoo address, when I try this on
> yahoo's smtp server it does not require me to use AUTH, but AOL drops my
> messages giving me some kind of 'bulk mail, yada yada' message.  I don't have
> this problem with Outlook using Yahoo's smtp server, so I'm curious to know
> what it is that Outlook is doing that I'm missing in my code?  With Yahoo I did
> something like:
> s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.yahoo.com')
>         s.set_debuglevel(1)
>         s.ehlo()
>         s.sendmail('bossierbossman at yahoo.com', [to], msg)
>         s.quit()
> but this is dropped for some odd reason.  Any thoughts?  Also I never got the
> login method of smtp to work with AOL's smtp, so I had to run through that by
> hand.  Can someone tell me if I'm missing something there also?

You may find this URL helpful:

http://techsupport.ath.vt.edu/X-Junkmail-Status.html


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 04:37:19 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 01:37:19 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<clkvab$1dc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<Z8ofd.2777$kM.174@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<940ee3e8.0410262345.4017fbd5@posting.google.com>
	<clo8uk$689$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410280037.2b26b58e@posting.google.com>

Michael Hoffman <m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote in message news:<clo8uk$689$1 at gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>...

> I'm sorry for questioning whether you were a troll. Like I said before, 
> I spend waaaaay too much time hanging out on troll-infested fora and it 
> means certain behaviors cause me to automatically dismiss posters. You 
> seem to have recognized and stopped some of these behaviors.

No problem (at least compared to some of the other comments ;) ). It's
nice to know that my posts have not been completely useless!

-kartik


From mwh at python.net  Thu Oct 14 11:01:49 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:01:49 GMT
Subject: failed delivery messages
References: <mailman.4869.1097682394.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416d7321$0$21773$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <m33c0hz6lf.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:

> On 2004-10-13, Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > Okay, I hate to bitch, but is there any possibility of canceling this
> > subscription?  I'm tired of getting a failed delivery message from this
> > guy every time I post to the list.
> 
> You think that's bad, I don't even post (or subscribe) to "the
> list", and _I_ keep getting crap like that.  
> 
> If whoever is gatewaying this group onto a mailing list wants
> to have crap like that sent to the list subscribers that's
> between you and him, but I don't see why non-subscribers should
> be pestered.

Grant, read the headers.  The failed delivery message isn't coming via
mail.python.org.  What do you expect the gatewayers to do?  Mangle
From: headers?  Please, no!

I agree this subscription should probably be cancelled.  Mailing
python-list-owners or postmaster is a better way of acheiving that
aim.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  NUTRIMAT:  That drink was individually tailored to meet your
             personal requirements for nutrition and pleasure.
    ARTHUR:  Ah.  So I'm a masochist on a diet am I?
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 9


From fumi at fakehost.com  Sat Oct 30 06:37:52 2004
From: fumi at fakehost.com (The Fumigator)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:37:52 +0500
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
	<mailman.5652.1099050368.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ueq45F2a9e6eU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<6c6a52-r5t.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<clu3cd$oe$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.10.30.00.47.53.108306@jerf.org>
	<clugqd$ukm$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.30.10.37.52.136926@fakehost.com>


Some good stuff here... Thanks people. 




From foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid  Sun Oct  3 13:00:32 2004
From: foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid (Thomas Rast)
Date: 03 Oct 2004 19:00:32 +0200
Subject: Reclaiming (lots of) memory
References: <87lleo6hva.fsf@thomas.local> <7xr7ogeu4t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <87hdpb68jz.fsf@thomas.local>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

> I'm not sure what your dictionary of dictionaries is supposed to do,
> but from your dissociated press description it sounds like you want to
> look at the pairs of adjacent pairs of words and build up a
> probability table.  In that case I'd do something like:
>
[... use the 'sort' utility on a temporary file ...]

Thanks a lot for your input!  I'm still not sure what exactly I'm
going to do, since I'd also like to update the tables as new lines
come in, but I may just have to regenerate them periodically.  In any
case, your post certainly gives me some ideas.

- Thomas

-- 
If you want to reply by mail, substitute my first and last name for
'foo' and 'bar', respectively, and remove '.invalid'.


From godoy at ieee.org  Tue Oct 26 07:54:44 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:54:44 -0300
Subject: newbie: pygtk (win, slack10)
References: <20041025212503.94278.qmail@web54001.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5495.1098779417.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fLqfd.16544$lp6.959@okepread01>
Message-ID: <m3zn29sni3.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:

> Or "Portugese" as I understand they call it :-)

It is "Portuguese".  You missed a letter 'u' right after the 'g' :-)
(LaTeX also does the same... ;-))

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From frankteoh at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 06:46:00 2004
From: frankteoh at gmail.com (Frank Teoh)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 03:46:00 -0700
Subject: How do I capture the output of os.system()
Message-ID: <84f06f8d.0410220246.7b6876bc@posting.google.com>

I am trying to capture the output of os.system() into a string without
success. Since os.system() returns only its exit_status, how can I do
that?
system(...)
        system(command) -> exit_status
        
        Execute the command (a string) in a subshell.

My aim is to capture the return value of os.system("rsh
<netapp_filer_host> qtree")

Thanks.
-FT


From kristofer at visi.com  Thu Oct 28 11:33:05 2004
From: kristofer at visi.com (Kristofer Pettijohn)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 15:33:05 GMT
Subject: Real-time graphs
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41811131$0$78438$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

MJR <pynode at centrum.cz> wrote:
> Hi,
> just wondering what options I would have if I wanted to use Python to
> produce real-time graphs. Is there any plotting package suitable for
> this.

For grabbing data and producing graphs (see
http://newsfeed.visi.com/~kpettijohn/stats/ for a live example) I use
rrdtool and the py-rrdtool module to dynamically get those graphs.

If you're looking to dynamically give the module numbers from other
sources and generate graphs based on that, I'll leave the othes up
to giving suggestions :)

Kristofer


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 16 04:20:38 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 01:20:38 -0700
Subject: passing a socket to a spawned process.
In-Reply-To: <e253918f.0410152332.2c1114b6@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4761.1097598633.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<e253918f.0410152332.2c1114b6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041016010526.09C9.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


On 16 Oct 2004 00:32:23 -0700
loritsch at gmail.com (Michael Loritsch) wrote:

> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.4761.1097598633.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > > Is it possible?  In the parent process, I have a socket that binds,
> > > listens and then accepts new connections (which creates new sockets in
> > > the process).  I want to be able to pass some of these new sockets to
> > > a spawned process.  Is it possible, and if so how?
> > > 
> > > Any help is much appreciated!!
> > 
> > As someone has already mentioned, if you have the socket before the fork,
> > you will have the socket after the fork.
> > 
> > 
> > I had been working on a general file descriptor passing mechanism for a
> > few weeks in May, until I gave up.
> > 
> > From what I was able to work out, it is not possible in Windows.
> > SunOS 5.8 has no issues, and will work almost out of the box (pure
> > Python) with the right incantation (I have it somewhere if you really
> > want it).
> > A few constants are missing from the Linux fcntl.py, so this is not
> > really possible unless you are willing to patch your kernel and Python.
> > 
> > Googling for the terms: passing file descriptors Python
> > will get you the list of articles/research that I looked at.
> > 
> > One of those links has source code for the C struct usable with a BSD
> > for making this happen.  Generally though, you can only pass file
> > descriptors (sockets) across a UNIX domain socket, or sometimes a pipe
> > (make it before you fork).
> > 
> > 
> > Good luck.
> >  - Josiah
> 
> 
> Passing sockets to spawned processes is also possible in Windows, but
> tricky.
> 
> While I have never passed a socket between python processes, I have
> passed a socket handle from a python process to a Windows binary. 
> Using the win32api extensions packaged with the ActiveState
> distribution, one should be able to pass the socket between python
> processes just as well.
> 
> The basic pseudo-code for doing so is as follows:
> 
> Parent process:
> 1) Obtain socket connection in parent server process from a client
> process.
> 2) Obtain Windows process id -> use win32api.GetCurrentProcessId()
>    - This process id will later be sent to the child process.
> 3) Spawn child process, obtaining a pipe to child_stdin -> use one of
> the os.popen functions.
> 4) Using child_stdin pass parent process id (obtained in 2) to the
> child process.
> 5) Next, using child_stdin pass over the socket file id, using
> socket.fileno().
> 
> Now the child process should have everything it needs to listen on the
> socket.
> 
> Child process:
> 1) Read parent process id from stdin.
> 2) Read socket file id from stdin.
> 3) Obtain a handle to the parent process using the process id -> use
> win32api.OpenProcess().  This handle will be needed in the next
> call...
> 4) Turn your socket file id into a socket -> use
> win32api.DuplicateHandle().
>    - hSourceProcess is the handle obtained in 3
>    - hSource is the file id
> 
> You are now done, and should be able to read data on the socket in the
> child process!


Goodness, I guess it is possible in Windows.  That kind of thing is
really useful for a "pre-forked" server with multiple processes, or even
a super-daemon that listens on ports specified by other daemon processes
in order to handle automatic failover.

Looks like I have a reason to download pywin32 after all.

Now if only it could be done in linux out of the box.

 - Josiah



From bradtilley at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 11:45:53 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:45:53 -0400
Subject: bz2 & cpu usage
In-Reply-To: <5Bfdd.9261$5b1.3267@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>
References: <cl365b$hh8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<cl36lk$83l$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<cl3757$iqm$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<pan.2004.10.19.16.23.49.133504@jerf.org>
	<5Bfdd.9261$5b1.3267@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <cl617h$osv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Kirk Job-Sluder wrote:
> Sorry for the late post, the original scrolled off the server.
> 
>  > I'd like to keep at least 50% of the cpu free while doing bz2 file
>  > compression. Currently, bz2 compression takes between 80 & 100 percent
>  > of the cpu and the Windows GUI becomes almost useless. How can I lower
>  > the strain on the cpu and still do compression? I'm willing for the
>  > compression process to take longer.
>  >
>  > Thanks,
>  >
>  > Brad
>  >
>  > def compress_file(filename):
>  >     path = r"C:\repository_backup"
>  >     print path
>  >     for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):
>  >         for f in files:
>  >             if f == filename:
>  >                 print "Compressing", f
>  >                 x = file(os.path.join(root, f), 'rb')
>  >                 os.chdir(path)
>  >                 y = bz2.BZ2File(f + ".bz2", 'w')
>  >                 while True:
>  >                     data = x.read(1024000)
>  >                     time.sleep(0.1)
>  >                     if not data:
>  >                         break
>  >                     y.write(data)
>  >                     time.sleep(0.1)
>  >                 y.close()
>  >                 x.close()
>  >             else:
>  >                 return
> 
> One of the issues you may be running into is memory.  Under windows, 
> using up 90% of the CPU shouldn't affect GUI performance (much) but 
> swapping does.  According to the bzip2 man page, the maximum block size 
> is 900KB so you might be running into problems reading your file 1024KB 
> at a time.  Use the system monitor control panel to check for excessive 
> swapping.  Bzip2 uses 8x<blocksize> memory.  So with the default setting 
> of a 900KB block size, you are looking at 7.2M + some bookeeping memory.
> 
> Another issue is that you might be better off downloading bzip2 for 
> windows and letting the gnu bzip2  implementation handle file input and 
> output.  Using a shell command here might be more efficient in spite of 
> spawning a new process.
> 
> A third issue is that bzip2 achieves high compression efficiency at the 
> expense of CPU time and memory.  It might be worth considering whether 
> gzip might occupy the sweet spot compromise between minimal archive size 
> and minimal cpu usage.
> 
> Fourth, how many of those files are uncompressible?  I've noticed that 
> bzip2 tries really hard to eek out some form of savings from 
> uncompressible files.  A filename filter for files that should not be 
> compressed (png, jpg, gif, sx*) might be worth doing here.

Thanks for the tips. I installed 512MB of ECC Ram and the problem went away.


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Tue Oct 19 09:32:18 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:32:18 +0200
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
	exception
Message-ID: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Hi!

I'm trying to do this in Py2.4b1:

-------------------------------
import logging
values = {'test':'bla'}
logging.log(logging.FATAL, 'Test is %(test)s', values)
-------------------------------

This leads to en exception:

-----------------------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/logging/__init__.py", line 692, in emit
     msg = self.format(record)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/logging/__init__.py", line 578, in format
     return fmt.format(record)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/logging/__init__.py", line 368, in format
     record.message = record.getMessage()
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/logging/__init__.py", line 239, in getMessage
     msg = msg % self.args
TypeError: format requires a mapping
-----------------------------

Now, values /is/ a mapping. I looked into logging/__init__.py, but I can 
only see that the '*args' parameter (as which 'values' is fed in) should 
have been unpacked like this in logging.log():

apply(root.log, (level, msg)+args, kwargs)

Which should lead to the second argument being '(level, msg, args)' in my 
understanding and which should allow using dicts when doing this later on 
in LogRecord:

msg = msg % self.args

Now, I'm somewhat confused that this doesn't work and I'm also worried 
that this is only done in the module methods and not inside the class that 
actually handles the logging (the root object in this case). This should 
encourage a diverting behaviour of the module methods and the Logger 
object methods with the same name. This looks like a bug to me. Adding the 
tuple should /only/ be done inside the class, not in the module functions.

Wouldn't it be better to handle dictionaries directly inside LogRecord? 
Something like this would do the trick:

-----------------------
if len(self.args) == 1:
   msg = msg % self.args[0] # may be a single value or a dictionary
else:
   msg = msg % self.args    # looks like a value tuple
-----------------------

Could anyone please comment on this?

Stefan


From roberto at dealmeida.net  Thu Oct 14 11:02:52 2004
From: roberto at dealmeida.net (Roberto Antonio Ferreira De Almeida)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:02:52 +0000
Subject: question on list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <416e951c$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Darren Dale wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I need to replace the following loop with a list comprehension:
> 
> res=[0]
> for i in arange(10000):
>  res[0]=res[0]+i

res[0] = (10000 * (10000-1))/2.0   ;-)

> In practice, res is a complex 2D numarray. For this reason, the regular
> output of a list comprehension will not work: constructing a list of every
> intermediate result will result in huge hits in speed and memory.

Why do you *need* to replace the for loop with a listcomp? Could you 
give more details about what you're doing with the complex array?

Roberto


From cmedcoff at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  6 22:15:46 2004
From: cmedcoff at hotmail.com (Chuck)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:15:46 -0400
Subject: PythonWin Errors while debugging
References: <xf2dnXbpeLnSO_ncRVn-vw@wideopenwest.com>
Message-ID: <z7mdnV4xwbR3O_ncRVn-oQ@wideopenwest.com>

Oh and I forgot to add that once this happens I have to use the task manager
to kill off PythonWin.  Any further commands result in more errors/traces...
thats the second dump captured in my previous post.




From claird at lairds.us  Fri Oct  1 11:08:11 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:08:11 GMT
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<MJednUj3F8J40MDcRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <155032-n84.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <MJednUj3F8J40MDcRVn-sA at powergate.ca>,
Peter L Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
			.
		[constructive
		name-dropping]
			.
			.
>As one tiny example, I had to whip up a provisional driver for
>a Tecan (Cavro) robot for a customer who needed to talk to it
>with LabVIEW.  I spent the majority of two weeks learning
>ActiveX issues from scratch, and wasted a fair bit of time trying
>to do a COM server using the win32com stuff before switching
>to and successfully using ctypes.  I also used the excellent
>PySerial (thanks Chris!) module.
>
>In the end, the code that represents the robot-specific aspects
>of this, the protocol and command set and such, took only two
>days to write.  And it worked, first time (after my log messages
>allowed us to troubleshoot the customer's incorrectly wired
>cable) *without ever visiting the site for testing*.  This was
>for me an unprecedent occurrence in the history of my work in
>software.  (For those that don't do control: code that talks
>to robots *never* works the first time. :-) )
>
>Had I done this with any of the past languages I've used for
>the task, whether C, C++, Delphi, Java, I'm certain it would
>have taken several times longer, probably at least as long
>as two weeks.  (And I *have* done similar though simpler stuff
>in each of those languages which did take much longer,
>especially to debug.)
>
>I attribute the productivity to two things, roughly equally:
>Python, and test-driven development.
>
>Cameron: let's set up that list!  If nothing else it might
>encourage cowardly companies to start to share more things
>via open source, such as drivers for robots, which while they
>took time to develop are *not* part of a given company's core
>IP and which, if they contributed them to the community,
>would likely benefit from more improvements than the company's
>own programmers will ever be able to make...
>
>-Peter

It's possible to eliminate one of us; Peter and I just write
the same things.

Despite my usual abhorrence of redundancy, though, I'll relate
my part.  My industrial automation experience is quite shallow,
really, noteworthy only for my enthusiasm--and for the
consistency of my observations.  EVERY time I do process control,
there are days (sometimes--hold your hats; this is no
exaggeration--months (!)) of pleading, "No, I really want the
documentation where you say what it's supposed to do, and what it
really does", then the the getting-the-right-cables interval of
frustration, then we get a signal through, then various miracles
occur, and the conclusion is, "You mean it only takes thirteen
lines of code to do that?  Our software folks said it's not
possible."

The point is not any particular virtue in me; it's that the
advantages of high-level, test-driven development simply are not
known NEARLY as well as they might be.  It consistently blows 
process control vets away to see:
1.  efficient delivery and diagnosis through
    test-driven development; and
2.  compensation for undocumented product 
    defects on-site, in real-time, often
    while I or others are hundreds of miles
    away.

My conclusions for today:  Peter's right.  Moreover, I *know* I
can document huge swathes of the industrial automation world far
better than they're done now.  A lot of this stuff is easy, if
just explained sensibly.  There are huge efficiencies still to be
gained.

Peter et al.:  I'm crazy-busy the next week.  Stay in touch, 
though; there's got to be a better way to do this stuff, and I'm
thinking about it seriously.


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 22 17:35:34 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:35:34 -0400
Subject: Need help getting started with Twisted Matrix.
In-Reply-To: <c718a6cf.0410221328.58ab0efb@posting.google.com>
References: <c718a6cf.0410221328.58ab0efb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <puqdnfvc_Om74OTcRVn-iA@powergate.ca>

Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
> need some help getting started, it is just a "little" confusing on
> where to actually start. I want to write a turn based board game using
> Twisted as the networking layer.
> 
> I just need a kind of "kick start" to how I need to handle
> authentication, joining rooms, ect.
> 
> Any help, even a pointer to a better place like another newsgroup, or
> a mailing list or forum that would be helpful, I have not had alot of
> luck finding any place that is very responsive.

Have you walked yourself through any of the "How Tos", pasting
the code into your editor (or perhaps even better, retyping it!)
and running the results, then playing with things?

I found that a very effective way to get a feel for the differences
between Twisted and other approaches.

-Peter


From newsuser at stacom-software.de  Tue Oct 12 03:45:17 2004
From: newsuser at stacom-software.de (Alexander Eisenhuth)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:45:17 +0200
Subject: kinterbase and stored procedure
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4704.1097504839.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <2svii1F1qc0k9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.4704.1097504839.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416B8B8D.2020205@stacom-software.de>

Gandalf schrieb:
> 
>> cursor = kinterbasdb.connect(...)
>> cursor.excute(SPSETUP)
>>
>> But it seems that anything has problems with "SET TERM !!" expression 
>> . If I use the DB SQL console, everything seems to be OK (the proc is 
>> setup) 
> 
> 
> Yes, that is true. The "SET TERM" command is not really a command that 
> is processed by the backend.
> Please note that the terminator is used to separate commands. However, 
> you will (normally) execute only one
> command at a time with "cursor.execute". So you should create your 
> procedure without the "SET TERM".
> InterBase will surely know that this is only one command. You can try to 
> run the "SET TERM" command
> in a separate "cursor.execute", but probably that is not needed. I had 
> the same problem with Oracle triggers
> before - you must not place the ending "/" character when createing 
> Oracle triggers from your own program.
> 
> Please let me know if it helps.
>

Thanks a lot, that is the solution.


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Mon Oct 11 07:31:24 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 04:31:24 -0700
Subject: EVIL AMERICAN GOVT (aka FBI) is full of SADISTS and PERVERTS
References: <11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0410110331.7b7b0c08@posting.google.com>

Zzzzzzzz. One for the SADISTIC FBI LIST MOM, I think.

--

Never offer sympathy to the mentally ill. You tell them firmly, 'I am
not paid to listen to this drivel.' You are a terminal fool. --
William S Burroughs


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 11:55:03 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:55:03 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<1glbyrn.4jt08j144wg1dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<b644658b.0410120040.723f73a1@posting.google.com>
	<1gljja1.1nxj82c1a25c1bN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416bd688$0$21236$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<1gljufr.9d1d5319us58iN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416bf145$0$9373$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <1glk0w7.wac0yl4laurwN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Nicolas Lehuen <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote:
   ...
> > > > Sorry, I don't get your point.  Sure, Windows makes process creation
> > > > hideously expensive and has no forking.  But all kinds of BSD, including
> > > > MacOSX, are just great at forking.  Why is a preference for multiple
> > > > processes over threads "forgetting about BSD, MacOSX", or any other
> > > > flavour of Unix for that matter?
   ...
> mod_python's market (pure guess). So the multithreading issues have not
> many chances of being fixed soon. That is why I said that a
> "Linux-centered mindset forgetting [other OSes, none in particular]" is
> hindering the bugfix process.
   ...
> I do hope the point above is cleared.

It's basically "retracted", as I see thing, except that whatever's left
still doesn't make any sense to me.  Why should a Linux user need to
"forget" another system, that's just as perfect for multiprocessing as
Linux, before deciding he's got better things to do with his or her time
than work on a problem which multiprocessing finesses>

> Now, you propose to share objects between Python VMs using shared memory.

Not necessarily -- as you say, if you need synchronization the problem
is just about as hard (maybe even worse).  I was just trying to
understand the focus on multithreading vs multiprocessing, it now
appears it's more of a focus on the shared-memory paradigm of
multiprocessing in general.


> > > Obviously they won't be any worse. Well, to be precise, it still depends
> > on the OS, because the scheduler must know the difference between 2
> > processors and a 2-core processor to efficiently balance the work, but
   ...
> I am way beyond my competences here, but I've read some articles about
> hyperthreading-aware schedulers (in WinXP, Win2003, and patches for
> Linux). The idea is that on multi-core CPUs, threads from the same
> process should be ran on the same core for maximum cache efficiency,
> whereas different processes can freely run on different cores. I've read

And how is this a difference between two processors and two cores within
the same processor, which is what I quoted you above as saying?  If two
CPUs do not share caches, the CPU-affinity issues (of processing units
that share address spaces vs ones that don't) would appear to be the
same.  If two CPUs share some level of cache (as some multi-CPU designs
do), that's different from the case where the CPUs share no cache but to
share RAM.

> But apart from this caveat, yes, multi-threads and multi-processes
> application equally benefit from multi-core CPUs.

So it would seem to me, yes -- except that if CPUs share caches this may
help (perhaps) used of shared memory (if the cache design is optimized
for that and the scheduler actively helps), even though even in that
case it doesn't seem to me you can reach the same bandwidth that
hypertransport promises for a more streaming/message passing approach.


Alex


From theller at python.net  Wed Oct 13 15:32:20 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:32:20 +0200
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net> <ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4866.1097680786.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zUcbd.32564$3C6.1308279@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4875.1097688444.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Arebd.33298$3C6.1330114@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <4qky5s8r.fsf@python.net>

Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> writes:

> like very much to share what I have once it is completed.  What I'm
> doing looks a lot like a metastruct module (see example in previous
> post).

In this case, you could also look at the ctypes module, it implements C
compatible structures and unions.

And for your original question: why do you insist on your new syntax,
why don't you simply (as ctypes also does it) define the attributes in a
list, when they have to have a certain order?

Thomas


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Mon Oct 11 04:26:12 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 08:26:12 GMT
Subject: Alternatives for pickle?
Message-ID: <slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

I'm writing a little game, a gridler application, where you
can turn pixmaps into puzzle's and try to solve them. I already
have the data structure for such a puzzle worked out, one of
the problems is writing it to a file and reading it back in.

I first went to the pickle module but there I read this.

| Warning: The pickle module is not intended to be secure against
| erroneous or maliciously constructed data. Never unpickle data
| received from an untrusted or unauthenticated source.

But since this is for a game and people should be able to
exchange puzzles, it seems a heavy requirement to ask of
the users to check a puzzle file for security hazards.


I also thought about writing out a string that, when read
back in and fed to eval would recreate the structure. But
that seems to be just as insecure if not more so.

So how do you serialize data in python, when you want
a somewhat secure mechanisme. Preferably where a user
can make a puzzle file by hand in a text editor.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Oct 21 21:24:44 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:24:44 -0400
Subject: Some more notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile) writes:

> Ville Vainio:
>>It's highly typical for the newbies to suggest improvements to the
>>language. They will usually learn that they are wrong, but the
>>discussion that ensues can be fruitfull anyway :-).
>
> Few more notes on the language. I don't know if I can really suggest
> improvements to the language... but I hope to learn something :-)
>
> I think some things are better in Delphi/Pascal (like the := for
> assignments instead of = and = for equality, that I suggested in the
> my precedent notes):
>
> 1) The "print" and "printf" pair without automatically added spaces
> between arguments, and with or without automatic newline, instead of
> the current "print" command. Because adding lots of "+str()+" isn't
> good for me (there's sys.stdout.write, but it's not built-in).

Use string formatting:
>>> a = "Hello"
>>> b = 5
>>> c = 4.52
>>> print "%s, %d is greater than %g" % (a, b, c)
Hello, 5 is greater than 4.52

Also, adding a , to the end of the print statement will suppress the
newline (although, not the space between the two calls).

> 2) Adding "case var of:" can be useful.

"can be" is the operative phrase here. It's not necessary. Chained
if/elif/elif works fine for small cases; for larger, you should
probably use a dict, or rewrite to use a class.

> 3) "do while" (or "repeat until") can also be added, it's useful.

Really, while loops and repeat until loops are special cases of the
much more useful loop-and-a-half:

while True:
      ... some stuff ...
      if condition_true:
         break
      ... more stuff ...

The above is a common enough Python idiom (also seen with while 1:,
which runs slightly faster due to absence of the lookup for True).

> 4) Maybe really raw strings RR"" can be added to avoid problems with
> file paths on Win :-]

I'm confused; how does r"..." not help? The only thing that gets
interpreted in a raw string is a backslash at the end of a string:
r"\" is not allowed. (I don't do Windows :-)

> 5) Inside function definitions, assignments of mutable types like this
> can be forbidden and seen as errors by the interpreter:
> def func(a=[1,2]):
>     ...

But then you have to determine what objects are mutable, and sometimes
this _is_ what you want (using the argument as a cache, or you're sure
that you don't mutate the argument).

> 6) Given:
> a = [1]
> a += [2]
> a = a + [3]
> The first assignment extends the list, and second creates a new list
> and rebinds it. Why such difference for operations that look the same?
> Isn't a kind of "error" to do different things with quite similar
> looking commands?

To me, a += [2] and a = a + [3] look different. You're applying idioms
you've learned in other languages (C?) to Python. += _can_ mutate the
argument, but it doesn't have to: it's very useful when used with
large mutable objects, such as Numeric arrays.

> 7) There's something that I don't understand. I'm not a OOP purist,
> but finding functions like this beside normal methods seems odd to me:
> len(s) length of s
> min(s) smallest item of s
> max(s) largest item of s
> For uniformity they can be:
> s.len()
> s.min()
> s.max()

Alex Martelli has answered this throughly in another thread, where the
context is why have __len__, etc. methods.

Another argument is that most objects, these methods would be useless:
what should s.min() be when s is, for instance, a database object?
Should numbers also have them? These methods only make sense when s is
some type of sequence (len() also works for a collection like a dict
or set, also).

Also, one Python tenet is "practicality beats purity". Making a new
sequence type is _easy_. Add __getitem__ and __len__ methods, and
*poof*. I don't have to inherit from a 'sequence' object, or implement
the methods above: the algorithms in min() and max() work right away.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From timr at probo.com  Thu Oct 28 01:10:07 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:10:07 -0700
Subject: mod_python newbie question.
References: <mailman.5574.1098896884.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b4v0o0d69vlqkefl6586gl0sv2gm57im0o@4ax.com>

"Golawala, Moiz M (GE Infrastructure)" <Moiz.Golawala at ge.com> wrote:
>
>Hi All, 
>
>I am very new to mod_python (I have developed application with python 
>but am new to web development in general). I have read most of the
>documentation and I have a couple of questions. I am planning to use
>mod_python along with Cheetah to build an internal website for my 
>company.

If you are new to web development, you should throw out mod_python and
create your internal web using using plain, ordinary CGI scripts.
Mod_python introduces a number of configuration complications and debugging
difficulties (as you have already found).  The performance penalty of
invoking a new interpreter each time is very slight, especially if you're
compiling Cheetah templates each time.  CGI scripts are easy to debug, and
unlike mod_python handlers, you can test them from a command line.

Remember the golden rule of development: FIRST get it to work, THEN decide
if it needs to go faster.  Many production web sites work just fine with
nothing fancier than CGI.

>In the documentation I don't see any multi page working examples. Can 
>some one point me to some resource that has working mult-page html (PSP
>or Cheetah based) examples with the necessary Directory tags in the
>httpd.conf file so I can better understand what is going on. 

By switching to CGI, you lose all of this configuration file mucking.  Just
add Options +ExecCgi.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 21 06:11:04 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:11:04 +0200
Subject: Method Underscores?
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<mailman.5249.1098340790.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cdJdd.5313$WN5.3726@trndny08>
Message-ID: <1gm05gb.1251x8o3h0barN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Chris S. <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote:
   ...
> I realize that. My point is why?

I think both I and Andrew answered that: by stropping specialnames, any
new version of Python can add a specialname without breaking backwards
compatibility towards existing programs written normally and decently.

> Why is the default not object.len()? 
> The traditional object oriented way to access an object's attribute is
> as object.attribute.

It's one widespread way, dating from Simula, but there are others --
Smalltalk, arguably the first fully OO language, uses juxtaposition
("object message"), as does Objective-C; Perl currently uses -> (though
Perl 6 will use dots); and so on.  But this lexical/syntactical issue
isn't really very relevant, as long as we're talking *single-dispatch*
OO languages (a crucial distinction, of which, more later).

The main reason <builtin-name>(*objects) constructs exist is quite
different: in the general case, such constructs can try _several_ ways
to perform the desired operation, depending on various special methods
that the objects' classes might define.  The same applies to different
(infix or prefix) syntax sugar like, say, "a + b", which has exaclty the
same semantics as operator.add(a, b).

Consider the latter case, for example.  operator.add(a, b) is NOT the
same thing as a.__add__(b).  It does first try exactly that, _if_
type(a) defines a specialmethod __add__ [[net of coercion issues, which
are a complication we can blissfully ignore, as they're slowly fading
away in the background, thanks be]].  But if type(a) does not define
__add__, or if the call to type(a).__add__(a, b) returns NotImplemented,
then operator.add(a, b) continues with a second possibility: if type(b)
defines __radd__, then type(b).__radd__(b, a) is tried next.

If only type(a) was consulted, there would be either restrictions or
_very_ strange semantics.  The normal approach would result in
restrictions: I could not define a new type X that knows what it means
to "add itself to an int" on either side of the + sign.  Say that N was
an instance of said new type X: then, trying 23+N (or operator.add(23,
N), same thing) would call int.__add__(23, N), but int being an existing
type and knowing nothing whatsoever about X would have to refuse the
responsibility, so 23+N would fail.  The alternative would be to make
EVERY implementation of __add__ all over the whole world responsible for
delegating to "the other guy's __radd__" in case it doesn't know what to
do -- besides the boilerplate of all those 'return
other.__radd__(self)', this also means hardwiring every single detail of
the semantics of addition forevermore -- no chance to add some other
possibility or enhancement in the future, ever, without breaking
backwards compatibility each and every time.  If that had been the path
taken from day one, we could NOT "blissfully ignore" coercion issues,
because that was the original approach -- every single implementation of
__add__ would have to know about coercion and apply it, and it would
never be possible to remove or even de-emphasize coercion in future
versions of the language without a major backwards-incompatible jump
breaking just about all code existing out there (tens of millions of
lines of good working Python).

The issue is even stronger for some other operations, such as
comparisons.  It used to be that (net of coercion etc) a<b (or
equivalently operator.lt(a, b)) meant essentially:
    a.__cmp__(b) < 0

But then more specific specialmethods were introduced, such as __lt__
and __gt__ -- so, now, a<b means something like:
    if hasattr(type(a), '__lt__'):
        result = type(a).__lt__(a, b)
        if result is not NotImplemented: return result
    if hasattr(type(b), '__gt__'):
        result = type(b).__gt__(b, a)
        if result is not NotImplemented: return result
    if hasattr(type(a), '__cmp__'):
and so on (implementation is faster, relying on 'method slots' computed
only when a type is built or modified, but, net of dynamic lookups, this
is basically an outline of the semantics).

This is a much better factoring, since types get a chance to define some
_specific_ comparisons without implying they're able to do _all_ kinds
of comparisons.  And the migration from the previous semantics to the
current one, without breaking backwards compatibility, was enabled only
by the idea that specialnames are stropped as such.  An existing type
might happen to define a method 'lt', say, having nothing to do with
comparisons but meaning "amount of liters" or something like that, and
that would be perfectly legitimate since there was nothing special or
reserved about the identifier 'lt'.  If the special method for 'less
than' comparison was looked for with the 'lt' identifier, though, there
would be an accidental collision with the 'lt' method meaning something
quite unrelated -- and suddenly all comparisons involving instances of
that type would break, *SILENTLY!!!* (the worst kind of breakage),
returning results quite unrelated to the semantics of comparison.
*SHUDDER*.

Many of these issues have to do with operations between two objects,
often ones that can be indicated by special syntax (infix) or by calling
functions in module operator, but not always (consider 'divmod', for
example; there's no direct infix-operator syntax for that; or
three-arguments 'pow', ditto).  Indeed, in good part one could see the
problem as due to the fact that Python, like most OO languages, does
SINGLE dispatching: the FIRST argument (often written to the left of a
dot) plays a special and unique role, the other arguments "just go along
for the ride" unless special precautions are taken.  An OO language
based on multiple dispatching (generic functions and multimethods, for
example, like Dylan) would consider and try to match the types of ALL
arguments in the attempt to find the right specific multimethod to call
in order to compute a given generic function call [[don't confuse that
with C++'s "overloads" of functions, which are solved at compiletime,
and thus don't do _dispatching_ stricto sensu; here, we _are_ talking
about dispatching, which happens at runtime based on the runtime types
of objects, just like the single-dispatching of a C++'s "virtual"
method, the single-dispatching of Java, Python, etc etc]].

So, one might say that much of the substance of Python's approach is a
slightly ad-hoc way to introduce a modest amount of multiple dispatch in
what is basically a single-dispatch language.  To some extent, there is
truth in this.  However, it does not exhaust the advantages of Python's
approach.  Consider, for example, the unary function copy.copy.  Since
it only takes one argument, it's not an issue of single versus multiple
dispatch.  Yet, it can and does try multiple possibilities, in much the
same spirit as the above sketch for operator.lt!  Since copy.py is
implemented in Python, I strongly suggest you read its sources in
Python's standard library and see all it does -- out of which, calling
type(theobject).__copy__(theobject) is just one of many possibilities.

Again, not all of these possibilities existed from day one.  You can
download and study just about all Python versions since 1.5.2 and maybe
earlier and see how copy.py evolved over the years -- always without
breaking backwards compatibility.  I think it would be instructive.  If
the names involved had not been specially stropped ones, the smooth and
backwards compatible functional enrichment could not have happened.

Of course, one MIGHT single out some specific functionality and say
"this one is and will forever remain unary (1-argument), never needed
the multiple-possibilities idea and never will, so in THIS one special
case we don't need the usual pattern of 'foo(x) tries
type(x).__foo__(x)' and we'll use x.foo() instead".  Besides the risk of
misjudging ("ooops it DOES need an optional second argument or different
attempts, now what? we're hosed!"), there is the issue of introducing an
exception to the general rule -- one has to learn by rote which
operations are to be involved as x.foo() and which ones as foo(x) or
other special syntax, prefix or infix.  There is one example of a
special method (of relatively recent vintage, too) implicitly invoked
but not _named_ as such, namely 'next'; Guido has publically repented of
his design choice in that case -- it's a _wart_, a minor irregularity in
a generally very regular language, and as such may hopefully be remedied
next time backwards compatibilities may be introduced (in the
transition, a few years from now, from 2.* to 3.0).

> For those that are truly attached to the antiquated 
> C-style notation, I see no reason why method(object) and object.method()
> cannot exist side-by-side if need be.

The implementation of a builtin named 'method' (or sometimes some
equivalent special syntax) is up to Python itself: what exactly it does
or try can be changed, carefully, to enhance the language without
backwards incompatibility.  The implementation of a method named
'method' (or equivalently '__method__') in type(obj) is up to whoever
(normally a Python user) codes type(obj).  It cannot be changed
retroactively throughout all types while leaving existing user code
backwards-compatible.

It's hard to make predictions, especially about the future, but it's
always possible that we may want to tweak the semantics of a builtin
method (or equivalent special syntax) in the future.  Say it's
determined by carefully double-blind empirical studies that a common
error in Python 2.8 is for programmers to ask for len(x) where x is an
iterator (often from a built-in generator expression &c) which _does_
expose a __len__ for the sole purpose of allowing acceletation of
list(x) and similar operations; we'd like to raise a LenNotAvailable
exception to help programmers diagnose such errors.  Thanks to the
existence of built-in len, it's easy; the 'len' built-in becomes:
    if hasattr(type(x), '__length_not_measurable__'):
        raise LenNotAvailable
    if not hasattr(type(x), '__len__'):
        raise TypeError
    return type(x).__len__(x)
or the like.  All existing user-coded type don't define the new flag
__length_not_measurable__ and thus are unaffected and stay backwards
compatible; generator expressions or whatever we want to forbid taking
the len(...) of sprout that flag, so len(x) raises when we need it to.
((or we could have a new specialmethod __len_explicitly_taken__ to call
on explicit len(x) if available, preempting normal __len__, for even
greater flexibility -- always WITH backwards compatibility; in the
needed case that specialmethod would raise LenNotAvailable itself)).

Most likely len(x) will need no such semantics change, but why preclude
the possibility?  AND at the cost of introducing a gratuitous divergence
between specialmethods which will never need enhancements (or at least
will be unable to get them smoothly if they DO need them;-) and ones
which may ("richer" operations such as copying, hashing, serializing...
ones it would be definitely hubristic to tag as "will never need any
enhancement whatsoever").


> Using method(object) instead of 
> object.method() is a throwback from Python's earlier non-object oriented
> days,

Python has never had any "non-object oriented days": it's been OO from
day one.  There have been changes to the object model (all of my above
discourse is predicated on the new-style OM, where the implied lookups
for specialmethods are always on type(x), while the classic OM had the
problematic feature of actual lookups on x, for example), but typical
application-level code defining and using classes and objects would look
just about the same today as in Python 1.0 (I never used that, but at
least I _did_ bother studying some history before making assertions that
may be historically unsupportable).

> and something which should be phased out by p3k. Personally, I'd 

Don't hold your breath: it's absolutely certain that it will not be
phased out.  It's a widespread application of the "template method"
design pattern in the wider sense, a brilliant design idea, and, even
were Python to acquire multiple dispatch (not in the cards, alas), guess
what syntax sugar IS most suited to multiple-dispatch OO...?  Right:
func(a, b, c).  The syntax sugar typical of single-dispatch operation
gives too much prominence to the first argument, in cases in which all
arguments cooperate in determining which implementation the operation
gets dispatched to.

Now that Python has acquired a "common base for all objects" (class
object itself), it would be feasible (once backwards compatibility can
be removed) to move unary built-ins there and out of the built-in
namespace.  While this would have some advantage in freeing up the
built-in namespace, there are serious issues to consider, too.  Built-in
names are not 'reserved' in any way, and new ones may always be
introduced.  In the general case a built-in name performs a "Template
Method" DP, so objects would not and should not _override_ that method,
but rather define the auxiliary methods that the special calls.  For all
reasons already explained, the auxiliary methods' names should be
stropped (to avoid losing future possibilities of backwards compatible
language enhancement).  So what would the net advantage be?  The syntax
sugar of making you use one more character, obj.hash() rather than
hash(obj), while creating a new burden to explain to all and sundry that
they _shouldn't_ 'def hash' in their own classes but rather 'def
do_hash' and the like...?  Add to that the sudden divergence between
one-argument operations (which might sensibly be treated this way) and
two- and three- argument ones (which should not migrate to object for
the already-mentioned issue of single vs multiple dispatch), and it
seems to me the balance tilts overwhelmingly into NOT doing it.

> like to see the use of underscores in name-mangling thrown out 
> altogether, as they "uglify" certain code and have no practical use in a
> truly OO language, but I'm sure that's a point many will disagree with
> me on.

No doubt.  Opinions are strongest on the issues closest to syntax sugar
and farthest away from real depth and importance; it's an application of
one of Parkinson's Laws (the amount of time devoted to debating an issue
at a board meeting is inversely proportional to the amount of money
depending on that issue, if I correctly recall the original
formulation).  For me, as long as there's stropping where there SHOULD
be stropping, exactly what sugar is used for the stropping is quite a
secondary issue.  If you want to name all intended-as-private attributes
private_foo rather than _foo, all hooks-for-TMDP-operations as do_hash
rather than __hash__, and so on, I may think it's rather silly, but not
an issue of life and death, as long as all the stropping kinds that can
ever possibly be needed are clearly identified.  _Removing_ the
stroppings altogether, OTOH, would IMHO be a serious technical mistake.

Seriously, I don't think there's any chance of this issue changing in
Python, including not just Python 3.0, which _will_ happen one day a few
years from now and focus on simplifying things by removing historically
accumulated redundant ways to perform some operatons, but also the
mythical "Python 3000" which might or might not one day eventuate.

If you really think it's important, I suggest you consider other good
languages that may be closer to your taste, including for example Ruby
(which uses stropping, via punctuation, for totally different purposes,
such as denoting global variables vs local ones), and languages that
claim some derivation from Python (at least in syntax), such as Boo.


Alex


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct  5 13:30:37 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:30:37 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <Kir8d.3246$M05.721@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.4319.1096957126.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Kir8d.3246$M05.721@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20041005102333.ECD7.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> > Functions, no (security risk).
> 
> Yet somehow Python functions are serialized in a .pyc file.  ;)
> 
> It really depends on what the OP wants, but he doesn't
> provide enough for us to know what problem he's trying to
> solve, as compared to what technique he things is needed
> to solve that problem.
> 
> For instance, writing a .py file lets you "store function and
> variables ... in a form that can be easily read back ..."

Indeed.

I've never tried it before, but it seems as though one can discover
compiled code of a function object during runtime.  Very interesting. 
Useless for everything I do, but interesting none the less.


> > Anything that you would want to do with a static typed language, can be
> > done with Python.
> 
> What about compile-time template metaprogramming like C++?
> Parameterizing a list so that it only accepts ints?
> 
> Sorry, I'm being too much of a stickler now trying to
> prove my point that many of these are non-trivial topics
> that cannot by easily answered without basically redoing
> work already done to create the documentation.

No argument here.  I took 10 minutes to respond.  I know the
documentation took more than 10 minutes to write (I've taken 10 minutes
to update a portion of it personally).

 - Josiah



From listserver at tdw.net  Tue Oct 26 10:57:13 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:57:13 +0100
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
Message-ID: <00ed01c4bb6c$13a5c6b0$ccbefea9@twilliams>


"Fred Pacquier" <xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net> wrote in message
news:Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM at 212.27.42.74...
>
> I have a (very old, POP3) email address that's flooded with spam (about
> 500 msgs per 24 hrs, no thanks to the ISP...) but that I still need to
> use for various reasons. Of course it's unmanageable without some sort of
> bayesian spam filter.
[SNIP]
>
> Is there a ready-made tool that fills this need ? If it's in Python so
> much the better, but actually I'll run anything else within my means
> (even perl :-) if it works without having to tinker the code... Also,
> it's possible that my single-minded approach is misled and there's a
> better way to achieve that goal, so I'm ready to change my mind too :)
>

Have a look at http://christophe.delord.free.fr/en/popf/index.html

popf.py  might do what you need, or be adaptable to your requirements

 :-)



From beliavsky at aol.com  Tue Oct 26 13:28:02 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 10:28:02 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0410260928.1873a20d@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
 
> > No, no, I want the C speed.
> 
> Then use C: no other portable language (including C++ when properly
> used) quite matches C's speed across the board.

I doubt this assertion -- Fortran is portable and is easier to
optimize than C, in part because pointers are used less.

> Good programmers
> realize that "premature optimization is the root of all evil in
> programming" and choosing a language based on the speed of its
> implementations is the ultimate _premature_ optimization, of course;
> they code in a powerful high-level language, then, iff more speed is
> needed in some (typically tiny) corner of an application, recode that
> part, only (e.g. in pyrex, a mostly Python-like language which
> interoperates smoothly with Python and does "compile down to C").  

Good programmers are busy and may not want to write a program in a
relatively slow language when they know will have to rewrite it later.
Fortran 95 and Python with Numeric or Numarray are comparably high
level languages, but Fortran has a performance edge of 2-100 in the
tests I have run (several posted to comp.lang.python). According to
the Pyrex web site http://nz.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/
the latest version is 0.9.3 -- this version number implies that Pyrex
is not mature. Fortran 95 compilers are mature. Nowadays, applications
where performance is critical are often run on Linux clusters (often
of AMD Opteron processors), and Fortran compiler vendors are
supporting these platforms. Are Pyrex and other Python projects being
customized in this way?

> If you don't need portability, C's speed isn't optimal anyway; psyco (a
> just-in-time optimizer for Python) can sometimes beat C by going
> directly to machine language (but it only works for intel and compatible
> CPUs, not for example for the PowerPC chips used in Apple's Mac
> computers -- that is the downside, of course).

There are optimizing Fortran 95 compilers for Intel Windows, Intel
Linux, AMD Opteron on Linux, PowerPC etc., listed at
http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Fortran/Compilers/
. You are conceding that Python is less portable if you demand
performance. There is even a free, fast compiler called G95 for these
platforms -- see http://www.g95.org .


From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Fri Oct 22 02:49:57 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:49:57 GMT
Subject: Recursive Str?
Message-ID: <p42ed.835$oI6.618@trndny03>

Why do most, if not all, compound Python structures not convert their 
elements to strings recursively?

 >>> class foo:
...     def __init__(self, a):
...         self.a = a
...     def __str__(self):
...         return 'foo('+str(self.a)+')'
...
 >>> from sets import Set
 >>> a=Set([foo(1)])
 >>> print a
Set([<__main__.foo instance at 0x01C01968>])
 >>> def SetStr(self):
...     text = []
...     for n in self:
...         text.append(str(n))
...     return 'Set('+', '.join(text)+')'
...
 >>> Set.__str__ = SetStr
 >>> print a
Set(foo(1))


From amk at amk.ca  Fri Oct 29 14:18:39 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:18:39 -0500
Subject: Regex speed
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <DfadnVRMd6PiFB_cRVn-gA@speakeasy.net>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:06:05 +0200, 
	Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
> re1 = re.compile(r"\s*<.*>\s*")
> re2 = re.compile(r".*\((.*)\).*")
> re3 = re.compile(r'^"(.*)"$')

You should post the actual code, because these substitutions could be made
more efficient.  For example, why are the bracketing \s* in re1 and the
bracketing .* in re2 there?  re3 isn't using re.M, so it's equivalent 
to 'if s.startswith('"') and s.endswith('"')'.

> So my question is: Why is the re module implemented in pure Python?
> Isn't it possible to integrate it into the core or rewrite it in C?

The regex engine *is* implemented in C; look at Modules/_sre.c.

> Is there a Python interface for the PCRE library out there?

PCRE was used from versions 1.5 up to 2.3; it'll be gone in Python 2.4.  You
could try 'import pre' to use it, but I don't expect it to be significantly
faster.

--amk


From donnal at donnal.net  Thu Oct 28 12:41:16 2004
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:41:16 -0500
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <C62dnYO2h5XrZuLcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>	<97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA@rogers.com>
	<C62dnYO2h5XrZuLcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <clr7fd$2j3$1@sea.gmane.org>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> This seems like an appropriate post to which to attach a reference
> to a nice article contrasting the GPL and the Mozilla Public License
> (MPL): http://croftsoft.com/library/tutorials/gplmpl/
> 
> Summary of that essay, in the words of its author:
>   "I state in this essay that MPL is more free and open than GPL."

Thanks for this reference and the one to Creative Commons. Is there a 
good mailing list or on-line forum appropriate for discussing licensing 
issues? I wouldn't mind discussing my questions here as I have the 
highest regard for the participants in c.l.p, but my questions are 
mostly off topic for this list. I'm still struggling with the copyleft 
vs non-copyleft issue, for example, and there may be a more appropriate 
place to discuss this.

Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 13 17:35:47 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:35:47 GMT
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416d2af0.154298900@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:28:29 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:50:00 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>> Bengt Richter wrote:
>> 
>> > Or, an ugly hack that might work for a while, depending on how
>> > co_names is really generated. It seems in order of occurrence
>> > (including right hand sides of assignment, but still top down) ...
>> >
>> > >>> import sys
>> > >>> def getnames(): return sys._getframe(1).f_code.co_names
>> > ...
>> > >>> def MC(cname, cbases, cdict):
>> > ...     names = cdict.get('ordic',[])
>> > ...     names = [name for name in names if name in cdict]
>> > ...     cdict['ordic'] = dict([(name,i) for i,name in enumerate(names)])
>> > ...     return type(cname, cbases, cdict)
>> > ...
>> > >>> class C(object):
>> > ...     __metaclass__ = MC # really a function shortcut
>> > ...     x = 123
>> > ...     y = sys
>> > ...     z = 0
>> > ...     ordic = getnames()
>> > ...
>> > >>> C.ordic
>> > {'ordic': 5, '__module__': 0, '__metaclass__': 1, 'y': 3, 'x': 2, 'z': 4}
>> 
>> A metaclass /function/ and sys._getframe() exercised on a class definition
>> - I think you have raised the bar for what qualifies as a hack :-)
>
>Hey, I came first with that a couple of weeks ago :-) but in truth, it
>was Alex Martelli that pointed to me that a metaclass function would
>work... but not only is it not recommended, it's also said to make
>Guido shudder ;-) Seriously, although it works, it's not recommended
>practice. Metaclasses are supposed to be classes, not functions.
>
IIRC it was Guido himself who let the cat out of the bag about a function, in
some early metaclass notes. But maybe I don't RC ;-)

>As for the getframe, I have played with it a little bit also. But in
>the end I have chosen to use a simple counter, using
>itertools.count(). More pythonic IMHO. And no need for clever hacks,
>when all that is needed is to order the elements in the order they are
>executed (which count() can guarantee). There are two situations where
>the simpler counter works, but the getframe hack doesn't:
>
>-- if I have a loop inside my class that is used to declare bunch of
>attributes, all of them will have the same line number... but a
>different sequence number if the simpler method is chosen.
You mean like
    for name in 'a b c'.split(): locals()[name] = ord(name[0])
? Yes, I think the names have to be visible to the compiler to show up in co_names.
>
>-- if a function is called that returns a bunch of attributes (not
>common practice, but still possible). All attributes are at the same
>line in this case. Example:
>
>class Foo:
>    a,b,c = myfunc(...)
>
That one _will_ show a,b,c in order. They're all visible to the compiler as names.

>Of course, we are now getting into corner cases that show how much are
>we pushing class  statements in Python. The _sane_ way to make it all
>work would be to have a hook to provide a user-defined dict to the
>class locals() dir; aternatively, the natice dict() could provide a
interestingly, you can pass a dict subtype instance as the last arg to type, but
it seems just to grab the instance's base dict. I.e., you apparently can't
get the subtype instance back as .__dict__. Oh well ;-)

>ordered interface (but then it wouldn't be a simple hash mapping, a
>more complex structure such as a tree would be needed). Both are far
>from happening in Python 2.x, IMHO... and I really doubt if dicts will
>ever be changed to accomodate ordering, even in Python 3.0. Too much
>hassle for too little gain. A hook function seems to be more sensible.
    class C(object, cdict=myDict): pass ??

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Mon Oct  4 10:11:31 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:11:31 +0200
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <wbWdnZus0dLU7MDcRVn-pg@powergate.ca>
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<du71xgjpsay.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<z5nr98uuk2l4.ul5xbcv4hq6x.dlg@40tude.net>
	<r8ydncR5KordxcDcRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
	<cjjq26$kl4$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<wbWdnZus0dLU7MDcRVn-pg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <cjrlmj$ihu$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Peter L Hansen wrote:
> David Fraser wrote:
> 
>> Peter L Hansen wrote:
>>
>>> I'm able to offer the use of a server to host a web site, ...
>>
>>
>> No need to do servers/websites/domains, just use sourceforge...
> 
> 
> SourceForge is, from my perspective, an incredibly unreliable
> and awkward beast, and I'd be loathe to host anything on it
> at this point.  I _might_ host an actual project on it, but
> I certainly wouldn't consider it for what I'm actually picturing
> in this discussion, which is some sort of "Python in Automation"
> "portal" or whatever they're called these days... something
> along the lines of a combination of a wiki, maybe an RSS feed
> (if someone will explain what the benefit is), a mailing
> list, and maybe some sort of Vaults-style way for people to
> provide links to their own projects (some of which, doubtless
> would be SourceForge-hosted).
> 
> The simplest thing that could possibly work (tm) of course,
> is a wiki and a mailing list, and I can have that up in
> a few minutes if desired...

OK fine, whatever you like...

Anyway would anyone else be interested in starting a simple project, say 
a Python OPC client library? (I know its just DCOM, but one could make 
it more Pythonic)

David


From michael at stroeder.com  Mon Oct 18 03:25:41 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:25:41 +0200
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
In-Reply-To: <du7zn2malsn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <mailman.5038.1097927312.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7zn2malsn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <mo7c42-692.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Ville Vainio wrote:
> 
> What we are seeing here is a horrible waste of coding - 95% of the
> desktop world runs on Windows, and if a piece of software is unusable
> for 95% of the potential userbase... that just sucks.

It depends on the type of application.

> Incentive to
> change the OS mostly works for home users, it would have to be pretty
> damn convincing to make a corporation with standardized desktop PCs to
> make the switch.

Again: This depends. I vaguely remember a study saying that benefits of 
Linux on desktop systems are highest for large corporations.

Thorough analysis of the special case has to be done before making such 
statements.

Ciao, Michael.


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 27 16:59:15 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:59:15 +0200
Subject: String to Hex
References: <6f402501.0410270242.521c6ab2@posting.google.com>
	<clnvjg$36k$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<6f402501.0410271106.4bf01b8b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <clp25t$v82$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Michael Foord wrote:

>> One (fragile) way to avoid that Python 2.3 interprets
>> 0x80000000...0xffffffff (on 32-bit systems) as negative integers is to
>> add an explicit sign:

> Looks good. Why is it fragile ?

>>> int("0x80000000", 0), int("+0x80000000", 0)
(-2147483648, 2147483648L)

Dunno. Is it only me feeling the itch to remove the redundant-looking +
sign?

>>> int("-0x80000000", 0) == 0x80000000
True

Is that the equality you want to bury somewhere in a script? The fact that
the int() argument probably is a variable rather than a string constant
makes it only worse.
I'd say there is one more reason to look forward to Python 2.4.

Peter



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct  5 20:08:29 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:08:29 -0500
Subject: id() collisions on bound methods [was: metaclass and
	customization with parameters]
In-Reply-To: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F33@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F33@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <20041006000829.GA7003@unpythonic.net>

For an instance i with a method m, the expression 'i.m' *creates* (each
time) a bound method object from i.__class__.m.

>>> class C:
...     def f(self): pass
...
>>> c = C()
>>> [c.f for i in range(3)]
[<bound method C.f of <__main__.C instance at 0xf6f7488c>>, <bound
method C.f of <__main__.C instance at 0xf6f7488c>>, <bound method C.f of
<__main__.C instance at 0xf6f7488c>>]
>>> [id(m) for m in _]  # All distinct
[-151250548, -151134580, -151178020]
>>> id(c.f)   # Same as "first one" from earlier.
-151250548

In your example, the bound method 'mc.method0' can be discarded (it is
no longer referencable) before the next statement, so it is possible for
the result of the next expression to have the same id().  The same goes
for the last 'id(c.f)' line, all the bound methods created in the [c.f]
listcomp are unreachable, and objects with the same id can now be
created.

Here's another one for you:
>>> id(200)
138049956
>>> id(300)
138049956
>>> id(400)
138049956

Again, the integer in each expression can be discarded, so it is
possible for an object with the same id to be created in a later
expression.

Python guarantees that two distinct objects alive *at the same time*
have different ids.  Each of these examples has objects with dijoint
lifetimes.

Now, the next thing you may run in to is that immutable objects are
never guaranteed to be distinct.  Sometimes they are, sometimes they
aren't.

Here are some actual examples from Python 2.3.3:
>>> (1,) is (1,)   # Only the empty tuple is special (may differ in 2.4)
False
>>> x = 100        # small integer cache doesn't go this high
>>> y = 100
>>> x is y
False
>>> 50 * 2 is 50 * 2  # Same principle as above
False
>>> x = "rhubarb"  # string literals are interned, but result of + is not
>>> "rhu" + "barb" is x
False

>>> () is ()       # Empty tuple is a special case
True
>>> 100 is 100     # Because 100 is in the bytecode's constants
True
>>> 2 * 2 is 2 * 2 # Because 4 is in the small integer cache
True
>>> x = "rhubarb"  # Because both strings are literals
>>> y = "rhubarb"
>>> x is y
True

For each of these sequences, Python is free to print either 'True' or
'False' (because they deal with the distinctness of immutable objects)
and the actual result depends on implementation choices of CPython
2.3.3.

Jeff
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From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct  7 14:12:38 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:12:38 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <1gl97ps.endfhf1dfa6l0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aJt8d.3299$M05.285@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6qcq.kcu4qi1qojaksN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<_sB8d.3545$M05.1351@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl7k7p.1a37gv1o1klclN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<JGW8d.7631$M05.6903@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl97ps.endfhf1dfa6l0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <qGf9d.5222$UP1.1202@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex:
> Bully for you -- I don't.  I wish I could set a callback on a given
> object getting modified or a given name getting rebound - but I can't,
> not with enough generality and little-enough black magic to be usable in
> production code.

Hmm..  The times I needed it I used __getattr__ in old-style
classes, sometimes as a proxy.  It seems that properties
should be the appropriate mechanism for new-style classes,
but I've yet to use them in real code.

They don't give the full support that const does.  The
above grey magic doesn't propogate down the attribute accessions
so that a deep structure, like
   a.b.c.d[10]["spam"].z = 1
will be changed even if 'a' is supposed to be const.

I don't know how to handle that case, but I'm hard pressed
to think when I've needed it.

My biggest problem in C++ was all the work needed to
preserve constness.  If I had

Y* fctn(X *x) {
   return x->y;
}

then I needed to duplicate the code to allow
proper const propogation

const Y* fctn(const X* x) {
   return x->y;
}

If I wanted to go through all that work for C++ then
I suppose I could put readonly-style wrappers around
all my Python objects, and add some protocol to ask
a non-const object for its const form.

In either case, too much work for too little gain.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From matthiasjanes at gmx.net  Wed Oct  6 18:37:18 2004
From: matthiasjanes at gmx.net (matthiasjanes)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 15:37:18 -0700
Subject: difficult zipefile Question
Message-ID: <d588131f.0410061437.4ecda4bf@posting.google.com>

hello all,

i want to zip a folder plus the files and subfolders.

which works something like that:

#sample code

import os, zipfile

def zipit(path, ziper):

  for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):

    for anyFile in files:

      fullname = os.path.join(root, anyFile)
                
if __name__ == '__main__':

  ziper = zipfile.ZipFile('test.zip', 'w')
  zipit('somefolderTozip', ziper)
  ziper.close()
#____________________________


this works fine as long as there is no empty subfolder.

can anyone tell me - or better give me a small example of code how to
add an empty folder to the zip archive.

thanks mr. janes


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  2 14:03:45 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:03:45 -0600
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>	<JaOdnbKT9I4chMHcRVn-vQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.4144.1096560257.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415e6f0d$0$41688$1b2cd167@news.euronet.nl>
Message-ID: <cjmqgs$tnq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ivan Herman wrote:

> If this is indeed what he means:-) I began to use PyChart last week:
> 
> http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Yasushi_Saito/pychart/
> 
> I is o.k. for relatively simple statistical charts, and may produce output in
> SVG, PS, PDF, PNG, and interactive X11 display

With all due respect for the author of this tool, I have a really hard time with
comments like this on his page:

Gnuplot.
A long-time favorite of researchers. But its output is not up to publishing
standard, in my opinion.

Gnuplot has been around for many years (I've used it since 1991), and its
postscript is extremely good.  Definitely far better than any of the examples
shown in the pychart page, all of which have that god-awful look of Excel cheap
charts.

In python, for the last few years I've been using (yes, for real research)
gnuplot with much success (with Gnuplot.py and the enhancements which ipython
ads), and right now I'm in the process of switching to matplotlib (and doing
much work so that ipython supports matplotlib for interactive work).  

IMHO, matplotlib has a very clean design which makes it a great tool to bet on
for the future, with very good functionality, high quality output, and is being
actively developed by a strong team (not just John Hunter, but also the good
folks from the Hubble Space Telescope Science Institute).

Just my $.02,

f



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 12:46:06 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:46:06 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gl6dqy.17aec2n1uecu0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.4340.1096988457.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4162CFCE.6040700@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>Probably more than teach Ada <G>
>
>	My "Design of Programming Languages" (I forget the actual title)
>course covered basic concepts, and as "homework" assignments each
>student had to choose some language and produce a 20-30min report (yes,
>we had to present them to the rest of the class).
>
>	Back then, I chose Ada (which was kind of tricky, given that the
>only readily available documents were the SIGPLAN rationale/reference
>and a skinny blue book (Ada by gradated examples?) -- both based on the
>preliminary language. The class had presentations on Algol, Pascal,
>COBOL, maybe C, LISP, SNOBOL, etc. {Was a small class, about 10 of us.
>Since I followed the Algol/Pascal presentations I was able to skim over
>the Ada basics and concentrate on the improvements.}
>
>	In short, even if the school doesn't teach the language itself,
>it is possible to have a course wherein the student chose it...
>
>  
>
Really?  Well, I never took computer science so I guess I wouldn't 
exactly know.  What's the point of making them write a report?


From nomail at no.way  Sat Oct  9 07:06:00 2004
From: nomail at no.way (Bats)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 13:06:00 +0200
Subject: ANN: GUI wrapper for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython
References: <mailman.4573.1097237841.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ck8aib$58d$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<newscache$u0ab5i$7lm$1@asterix.tee.gr>
Message-ID: <ck8gkl$q0j$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Stelios Xanthakis had this to say:

> Maybe copy the wrap_*.py files into examples/
> and ./run2.py from in there?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Stelios
It doesn't help.

I am sure its a problem on my system with two versions of Python installed.
I get all kinds of sh*t because of that. 
Lemme know if you make sense of that error.

PS - Love the wrapper idea; high time it was done. I don't know much about
(read nothing) Curses, but could that not also sneak into the wrappers?

Cheers.
-- 
Bats
~..~
(I can only post on weekends and rare times during the week.)



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct  5 02:11:42 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:11:42 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <41622FEB.1000300@cloudthunder.com>
References: <20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<41622FEB.1000300@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <20041004222013.ECC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> This is a cool language, I love code chunks!!

They can be useful, but they are a great way to introduce security
holes.


> >10. Can I call an object's method as object:method(arg) and have that 
> >>translate into object.method(object, arg)
> > 
> > 
> > class foo:
> >     def goo(self, arg):
> >         print self, arg
> >     def bar(arg):
> >         print arg
> >     bar = staticmethod(bar)
> > 
> > a = foo()
> > a.goo(arg) #will print information about the instance and argument
> > a.bar(arg) #will only print information about the argument
> > 
> 
> How come Python always complains when I don't include the self parameter 
> in an object method?  Your code doesn't work on my interpreter.

I don't know what is wrong with your interpreter...

>>> class foo:
...    def goo(self, arg):
...        print self, arg
...    def bar(arg):
...        print arg
...    bar = staticmethod(bar)
...
>>> a = foo()
>>> a.goo('hello')
<__main__.foo instance at 0x00909968> hello
>>> a.bar('hello')
hello
>>> 



> > No, it kills tracebacks.
> 
> I know but that's a real bummer.  No way around that?

Modify the interpreter.  There was a thread a few months back on
python-dev on doing tail-call optimization, I think someone even had a
patch for it.

Python's recursion limit is around 1000 levels deep.  If you are doing
tail-calls more than 1000 levels deep, maybe you should be looping
instead of recursing, or even creating your own stack.

> > No.
> > 
> 
> So is the print statement ironed into the language and not a function?

Yes.  It is a keyword, like a few others.

>>> import keyword
>>> keyword.kwlist
['and', 'assert', 'break', 'class', 'continue', 'def', 'del', 'elif', 'else', 'e
xcept', 'exec', 'finally', 'for', 'from', 'global', 'if', 'import', 'in', 'is',
'lambda', 'not', 'or', 'pass', 'print', 'raise', 'return', 'try', 'while', 'yiel


> yes, you can write custom import hooks.
> > 
> 
> I guess I'll hit the docs with how to do this.

I hear they aren't too hard.


> >>20. Date persistence and serialization
> > 
> > 
> > This can mean any one of a dozen things.
> >
> 
> I'd like to store function and variables and of course objects in a form 
> that can be easily read back into the program/script.

Functions, no (security risk).

Arbitrary Python objects, yes.  Check out the pickle module.


> > Python has no static typing.
> > 
> 
> Argg!

Don't be frustrated.  It is dynamically typed, but it is STRONGLY typed.

Anything that you would want to do with a static typed language, can be
done with Python.


> I'd like to be able to use a string as an integer without an explicit 
> coerion on my part for example.

Nope, but int("10") -> 10.


> >>31. Concepts of Protocols (whereby one may organize related methods into 
> >>groups and check whether a particular object implements the methods 
> >>within this protocol), or Interfaces similar to those in Java whereby 
> >>classes or objects which implement the interface (sign the contract) 
> >>must implement the methods and attributes as specified in the interface, 
> >>and/or programming by contract such as in Eiffel (see: 
> >>http://www.devhood.com/tutorials/tutorial_details.aspx?tutorial_id=595)
> > 
> > 
> > No.  Test-driven development is the norm in Python.
> > 
> 
> That is quite a shame, no modules for this either huh?

There is a unittest module for encouraging test driven development.

You can, of course, design by contract.  Nothing stops you from doing so.

I do what could be considered design by contract in much of my contract
work (no pun intended).  I also write extensive tests (roughly 1/3 of my
code is) to verify correctness.

When decorators via a syntax are introduced in Python 2.4, design by
contract becomes easier (you can set preconditions and postconditions,
or whatever you want).


Thinking about it, having never used Java, I imagine an "Interface"
would be something like...


class I_foo:
    def funct1(self):
        raise Exception, "Not Implemented"
    def funct2(self, arg):
        raise Exception, "Not Implemented"

class foo_implementation(I_foo):
    def funct1(self):
        pass
    def funct2(self, arg):
        pass


So, I suppose Python does, if implicitly.



> > Yes, if you are willing to work for it.
> > 
> 
> I expect the docs will tell me how to do this.

There was another thread on this.  Check the thread on this mailing list
with the subject of "Python Macros".


> Oh, I just like to play with garbage collectors.  It's a kind of fettish 
> of mine.

The Python garbage collector works well.  There isn't much need to
change it.


> Like virtual functions in C++

>>> class foo:
...     def goo(self):
...         print "foo.goo", self
...
>>> class hoo(foo):
...     def goo(self):
...         print "hoo.goo", self
...         foo.goo(self)
...
>>> hoo().goo()
hoo.goo <__main__.hoo instance at 0x00920508>
foo.goo <__main__.hoo instance at 0x00920508>


> What I actually meant was are there any facilities (built-in or modules) 
> which allow for automatic compilation to C/C++/C#/D.  For example, 
> particular Smalltalk distros compile to C as does ObjC.

Pyrex can compile a subset of Python to C.


> That's no good.  I wonder if I could implement this myself with minimum 
> pain.

If you can conceptualize the algorithm, you can likely do it in Python.


> That is messy, exactly why I wanted the kind of clear embedding I gave 
> an example for.  Oh well.

There is also...

print "Hello, World %s"%time.asctime()


> > No.
> > 
> 
> Really?  Hmmmm, does anyone know of a bridge between Python and Ruby?

I am not aware, but I have had no reason to learn Ruby.

There is always:

if score <= 40:
    print "Horrible!"
elif score <= 60:
    print "Poor"
elif score <= 80:
    print "You can do better!"
elif score <= 95:
    print "Now that's acceptable"
elif score <= 100:
    print "That the best you can do? j/k"
else:
    print "Didn't take the test?"

It isn't as fast as a real case statement, but if that is necessary...

class foo:
    def case_1(self, arg):
        pass
    def case_2(self, arg):
        pass
    def dispatch(self, arg1, arg2):
        getattr(self, 'case_%i'%arg1)(arg2)

 - Josiah



From eugene at boardkulture.com  Wed Oct 27 11:27:46 2004
From: eugene at boardkulture.com ( EuGeNe )
Date: 27 Oct 2004 08:27:46 -0700
Subject: FTP file creation date
Message-ID: <de8687be.0410270727.12eb2d3b@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I would like to write a script that downloads one file from a ftp
server if the file creation date satisfy a condition.

I can't figure out how to find from a ftp server what is the creation
date of the file (using python).

Any idea?

Thanks for your help!

EuGeNe


From liquid at kuht.it  Fri Oct 15 16:29:54 2004
From: liquid at kuht.it (GMTaglia)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:29:54 GMT
Subject: operation with strings and numbers
References: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it> <du7acun3kvz.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <6rWbd.142269$35.6913604@news4.tin.it>

Ville Vainio wrote:

> 
> Did you mean Italian SCHOOLboy, be any chance? Don't be afraid to say
> so, because everyone can guess anyway.
> 

sorry what you mean?


From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Fri Oct 22 05:21:34 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:21:34 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87u0sn3y75.fsf@chat.blakie.riol>

s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au (Shufen) writes:

> Hi all, 
>
>
> Can someone who has use PHP before and know quite well about the
> language, tell me what are the stuffs that Python offers and PHP
> doesn't. A few examples will be nice. I know about the date format
> problem which PHP is having but I need more examples. Thank you for
> any help.

imho php is more to compare with template engines (like cheetah...)
than python himself.

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 27 20:03:10 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:03:10 -0700
Subject: DVD/CD Burning
In-Reply-To: <972ec5bd041027163556febcdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <972ec5bd041027163556febcdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1098921790.7272.5.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 19:35 -0400, Timothy Fitz wrote:
> Is there a python library to burn CDs or DVDs with? (Python or worst
> case C/C++) I'd rather not use some other commandline tool, but as a
> last resort that'd be possible too. PyPi, Google, etc turn up nothing
> (or rather, anything there might be seems swamped by commercial
> applications)

I don't know of any python libraries, but of course cdrecord is the
cross-platform command line tool of choice.  I know that some people
have wrapped parts of cdrecord for use with Python, but I haven't seen
any that wrapped the burning code itself.

http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/glone/employees/joerg.schilling/private/cdrecord.html

Here's some related stuff that might help:
http://kipper.crk.umn.edu/~gerla/python/


-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From skywalkerpackage at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 03:59:37 2004
From: skywalkerpackage at hotmail.com (Johannes Eble)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:59:37 +0200
Subject: Python Patterns
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4162ef68$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <hos9m0h427fqgtfoqkck6rto7gsudogurl@4ax.com>

Hello Alex,

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:56:19 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
wrote:

>Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote:
>   ...
>> I really should dust off my old GOF Desing Patterns book,
>> because your code made me remember the "state" pattern right away :-)
>> 
>> There should be a Python version of that book... I think that
>
>Yep -- I've been writing about DPs with/for Python for years now (that's
>the invariable background to almost all of my conference talks &c, check
>most of them out at www.strakt.com), and one day (once I'm done doing
>2nd editions of cookbooks and nutshells;-) I hope to write a book about
>that (plus materials on agile programming practices, again with Python
>as the explanatory language).  

Will your book also be influenced by Design Patterns in Dynamic
Languages e.g. Common Lisp? Peter Norvig argues that 16 GoF Patterns
are simply workarounds of C++ like language shortcomings. It would be
very interesting to see such a discussion for Python. Also, Norvig's
slides are somewhat too terse for me (as well as Lisp macros etc.).
It's a pity that most of the pattern books are based on the GoF book
only.
See

http://norvig.com/design-patterns/


Best regards


Johannes



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct 28 14:23:23 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:23:23 +0200
Subject: quick regex question
References: <20041028164648.GA32572@utoronto.ca>
	<mailman.5621.1098983663.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clrddj$vq1$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> Matt Price <matt.price <at> utoronto.ca> writes:
>> 
>> this is surely trivial, but can'f figure it out.  I wnat to replace:
>> 
>> 'string with spaces'
>> with
>> 'StringWithSpaces'
> 
> 
> I know you asked for a regex solution, but I thought I'd drop this
> suggestion anyway (not everything really merits a regex) =)

I second that :-)
 
>>>> string1 = 'string with spaces'
>>>> ''.join([s.title() for s in string1.split()])
> 'StringWithSpaces'
> 

Or, without the list comprehension:

>>> "".join("string with spaces".title().split())
'StringWithSpaces'

> Clear, concise, and uses in the builtin str.title method, which appears to
> do exactly what you want.

Peter





From nospam at dontreply.com  Tue Oct 19 11:53:38 2004
From: nospam at dontreply.com (Peter)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:53:38 -0400
Subject: Packaging Python Apps
References: <w7CdnbnX8KsXTencRVn-tw@comcast.com>
	<4r-dnSgkULGlkejcRVn-jA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <gLSdnRv7aJAfpejcRVn-jg@comcast.com>

Istvan Albert wrote:

> Peter wrote:
> 
>> 1) deposit all files into a specified directory like when I do
>> make install DESTDIR=/foo
> 
> see:
> 
> python setup.py install --help

That's PRECISELY what I needed. It looks just like configure!

Thanks a lot!

> 
> Istvan.



From just at xs4all.nl  Wed Oct 27 14:10:25 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:10:25 +0200
Subject: Becoming Unicode Aware
References: <6f402501.0410270256.13cf5727@posting.google.com>
	<545cb8c2.0410270644.7aa2128d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <just-3CF025.20102427102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <545cb8c2.0410270644.7aa2128d at posting.google.com>,
 jhefferon at smcvt.edu (Jim Hefferon) wrote:

> > My main problem with udnerstanding unicode is what to do with
> > arbitrary text without an encoding specified. To the best of my
> > knowledge the technical term for this situation is 'buggered'. E.g. I
> > have a CGI guestbook script. Is the only way of knowing what encodign
> > the user is typing in, to ask them ?
> > 
> I found this link
>   https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18643#c12
> useful.

Likewise, I found this link
  http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_form.asp
useful. See the accept-charset atribute.

Just


From theller at python.net  Fri Oct 22 14:45:49 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:45:49 +0200
Subject: Pointer to Image
References: <a1301a8e.0410190637.74a091ad@posting.google.com>
	<d5zesplp.fsf@python.net>
	<a1301a8e.0410201033.43a05eb8@posting.google.com>
	<10ng2p7eddu4b3a@corp.supernews.com>
	<a1301a8e.0410220933.4deb27e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <zn2ek2w2.fsf@python.net>

cjankowski at hbr-inc.com (Chris Jankowski) writes:

> The part that is confusing to me, still has not been answered.  
>
> This DLL file has several functions. One is a handler that needs to be
> set to a Python function.  How do I pass it an address to make this
> happen?

It's not that complicated.  First, you have to declare the callback
function's prototype - you find it in the include file for the dll, and
you have to convert it into ctypes notation.  In this sample, the
callback receives an integer as parameter, and returns an integer as
result:

#  typedef int (* OCRProgressHandler)(int percent);
OCRProgressHandler = CFUNCTYPE(c_int, c_int)

Then, you define a Python function which will handle the events:

def py_handler(percent):
    # do something with 'percent', which will be an integer
    return 42

Next, you create the C callback function itself:

callback = OCRProgressHandler(py_handler)

And finally, you can install the callback:

ocrdll.SetProgressHandler(callback) # or something like that

Chris sent me a link where to download the dll (actually a whole OCR
application, the dll is part of it): wocar25.zip
<http://ccambien.free.fr/wocar25.zip>, plus a header file (which seems
not to be included in the application, but may be available elsewhere).

I made a script which passes one of the example tif's to the OCR
functions, and it seems to work quite well.
Since the script is not too large, I'll append it at the end of this
post.  I tried to insert comments to explain what's going in, I hope it
helps to get started.

Thomas

PS: The first paragraph of the OCR output is this - nice, although it
doesn't recognize fi ligatures (is that the correct terminus?):

Artificial Neural Networks
Neural network technology is at the centre of attention in many parts of both the world
scienti<?-5?>c community and the world industrial community. This intensive activity is partly a
response to the need of industry to tind solutions for a huge variety of hard information-
handling problems.

<script>
from ctypes import *

######## some definitions from the include file, converted to ctypes ########

# callback function  prototypes

## typedef int (* OCRProgressHandler)(int percent);
OCRProgressHandler = CFUNCTYPE(c_int, c_int)

## typedef void (* OCROutputHandler)(int infotype,int param);
OCROutputHandler = CFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int)

## typedef void (* OCRErrorHandler)(const char *module,
##                                  const char* fmt, va_list);
OCRErrorHandler = CFUNCTYPE(None, POINTER(c_char),
                            POINTER(c_char), POINTER(c_char))

## typedef void (* OCRWarningHandler)(const char *module,
##                                    int level,const char* fmt, va_list);
OCRWarningHandler = CFUNCTYPE(None, POINTER(c_char),
                              c_int, POINTER(c_char), POINTER(c_char))

# Allowed languages
NONE = 0
ENGLISH = 1
FRENCH = 2
DUTCH = 3

# OCR Events
OT_TEXT = 0
OT_PROP = 1
OT_ITAL = 2
OT_BOLD = 3
OT_UNDS = 4
OT_SIZE = 5
OT_HILT = 6
OT_ENDL = 7
OT_ENDZ = 8
OT_BITM = 9

# Output modes
OM_TEXT = 0
OM_RICHTEXT = 1
OM_WINDOW = 2

######## load the ocr dll.
# ocrdll.dll needs another private dll - so we add the directory to $PATH

import os, sys
os.environ["PATH"] = "c:\wocar"
ocrdll = CDLL(r"c:\wocar\ocrdll.dll")

# load an image

##img =  ocrdll.LoadImg(r"c:\chris_ocr.tif")
img =  ocrdll.LoadImg(r"c:\wocar\samples\english.tif")

# define a Python event handler
def callback(event, param):
    if event == OT_TEXT:
        try:
            sys.stdout.write(chr(param))
        except ValueError:
            sys.stdout.write("<?%d?>" % param)
    elif event in (OT_ENDL, OT_ENDZ):
        sys.stdout.write("\n")

# create a C callback function from it, and install it as Output Handler
callback = OCROutputHandler(callback)
ocrdll.OCRSetOutputHandler(callback)

# scan the image
ocrdll.OCR(img)

# cleanup totally omitted...
<script/>


From spam at nospam.org  Wed Oct 27 17:30:26 2004
From: spam at nospam.org (Erik Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:30:26 -0600
Subject: using re.finditer()
References: <417fe88d$1@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <418011f8$1@nntp.zianet.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

>Embed the flag(s) you desire in the regex itself. For example, to
>include DOTALL, change r'<td.*?>(.*?)</td>' to r'(?s)<td.*?>(.*?)</td>'

Ahhhh! :) Sorry, my bad. Its right there in the docs, but I missed it -
haven't fully comprehended all of re yet. :)


Peter Otten wrote:

>r = re.compile(r'<td.*?>(.*?)</td>', re.DOTALL)
>for match in r.finditer(html):
>    print match.group(1)

Good - perhaps a more obvious way to do it.

So there's two good work-arounds.
Thank you both for your helpful replies! :)

I am still left puzzled though, why this won't work:

pat = r'<td.*?>([\n.]*?)</td>'
for match in re.finditer(pat, html):
  print match.group(1)

but this will:

pat = r'<td.*?>([\w\W]*?)</td>'
for match in re.finditer(pat, html):
  print match.group(1)

Thanks,
-ej




From nospam at nowhere.com  Mon Oct 11 15:48:34 2004
From: nospam at nowhere.com (Oracle)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:48:34 -0500
Subject: VxWorks?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.11.19.48.33.382027@asdf>

After searching through the archives, I've no been able to find much
information on running python on VxWorks.  In fact, most all of the
links (email addresses and URLs) are now dead.  Not to mention, it's down
right hard to find much beyond 2000. Is there anyone that is currently
running Python on vxWorks? The most recent porting efforts I've seen,
seems to hover around using python 1.5.  Anyone have any porting
experience with more recent versions of VxWorks and python?

Would stackless python be a good candidate for a VxWorks port?

Cheers!






From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct  2 22:48:54 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 22:48:54 -0400
Subject: python vs c# [way, way, WAY OT]
In-Reply-To: <slrnclue66.n81.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4201.1096756628.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnclue66.n81.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <415F6896.5090406@holdenweb.com>

Sam Holden wrote:

> 
> From the same author and same blog I referenced before, an entry talking about
> his book "A Student's Introduction to English Grammar" says the following:
> 
>         The other shocking thing is more substantive. I just did a
>         global search of the entire electroscript and found that nowhere
>         does the book make the slightest mention of the concept "split
>         infinitive".
> 
> His proposed solution is to add to the glossary:
> 
>         Split infinitive: No such thing. Don't be a loony.
> 
> For the full rant:
> 	http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001466.html
> 
> He really is a Professor of Linguistics and not some elaborate web hoax :)
> 
Well Linguistics isn't Language.

Another pet peeve of mine seems only to be acceptable in American. Can 
anyone tell me why it's considered normal to say things like

"One cannot do it, no matter how he may try", when it seems to me that 
the only sensible thing to say is "One cannot do it, no matter how one 
may try"?

regards
  Steve


From deets.nospaaam at web.de  Thu Oct 21 07:20:29 2004
From: deets.nospaaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:20:29 +0200
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch>
Message-ID: <2tpkd4F21cs2oU1@uni-berlin.de>

Daniel Mueller wrote:

> Hello Fellow Python Programmers,
> 
> I have the following problem:
> 
> i want to read the content of a file every 10 seconds. now what is the
> best funktion to do that? to open the file, read it and close it
> consumes a lot of CPU time. is there a better solution?

No. At least not if what you really want is always the full content of the
file. If you're only interested in the content if the file has actually
changed - thats a totally different animal, and is under unix doable using
stat-calls (somewhere in the os module). I'm not sure how much that extends
to windows, but I'm pretty much confident that there is similar stuff
available.

Diez-


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Tue Oct 12 04:22:44 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:22:44 +0100
Subject: object as bunch
In-Reply-To: <1gliip2.16epime1d3fm7uN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4709.1097511211.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gliip2.16epime1d3fm7uN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ckg48p$olc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>Anyone know what the design goal was that caused object not to be written to
>>be used as a Bunch?
> 
> I believe the point was to not weigh down each instance of object with
> it own dictionary, since a dict takes quite a few bytes of RAM.  I could
> well be wrong, though.

Yeah, but did anyone expect object to ever be instantiated directly? 
Just askin'.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu  Thu Oct 14 14:00:16 2004
From: cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu (Christopher J. Bottaro)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:00:16 -0500
Subject: from dict to member vars...?
Message-ID: <ckmel7$oar$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hello,

Lets say I have a class instance with the following member vars:  var1, x,
size.  Now lets say I have dict with the following keys:  var1, x, size. 
Is there an easy way to *automatically* assign all the values in the dict
to corresponding (member) vars of the same name as the dict keys?

Thanks for the help.



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 19 16:16:48 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:16:48 -0700
Subject: formatting time as milliseconds in logging module
In-Reply-To: <41756ada.238154047@news.oz.net>
References: <mailman.5185.1098210699.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41756ada.238154047@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <20041019125727.0A76.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

> Yes I suspected as much. You are presumably referring to

[snip original C source]
Yes.


> which IMO really should be (untested):
> -----------------
[snip unchanged code]
> 		divisor = (double)freq.QuadPart;
>                 now = ctrStart;
> 	} else {
> 		QueryPerformanceCounter(&now);
> 	}
> 	diff = (double)(now.QuadPart - ctrStart.QuadPart);
> 	return PyFloat_FromDouble(diff / divisor);
> -----------------

That would be arbitrarily more accurate, but on my machine it is a
difference of around 10^-5 seconds.  I don't think it really makes a
difference.

Feel free to submit a patch.

In the context of the original question, the poster would likely be
rounding to the nearest 1/1000 second, so the tens of microseconds
doesn't seem to be a concern.


> >> Maybe not even all windows. E.g., for NT that is one scheuling time slice,
> >> but oher variants might have other granularity, IWT.
> >
> >Good point, though I think that 9x variants also had .01 second
> >resolution.
> I don't recall, but the old ~55ms tick was used a lot in the old days.

According to a few sources, windows 98 time slices were around 20ms. 
Whether or not you could get time resolution beyond the time slice with
time.time(), let us find out.  I just happen to have a P166 running
windows 98...

Hrm, looks like 18 or 19 unique times each second, which is around the
55ms tick time you offer.  Ick.

 - Josiah



From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Oct  3 11:04:21 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:04:21 +0200
Subject: __author__
References: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>
	<UUe7d.39869$35.1839915@news4.tin.it>
	<mJOdncAlLKryF8DcRVn-pg@powergate.ca>
	<61g7d.41156$35.1870133@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <12hmuoelx0xk.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Anna Martelli Ravenscroft (2004-10-01 18:58 +0200)
> Peter L Hansen wrote:
>> Anna Martelli Ravenscroft wrote:
> Yep - you're right.
> __whatever__ isn't there. Copyright isn't on that page either (as Alex 
> helpfully pointed out to me after I posted this). (Good thing I said 
> "may". That's what I get for posting while fighting a cold...)
> 
> I hope that someone like someone whose modules use __something__ can 
> explain for both of us...

The standard help(module) uses at least __author__, __version__ and
__date__ to display these values separately at the bottom of the help
page so they don't get lost unnoticed in the 'data' section.

Thorsten


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 14:04:50 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 14:04:50 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <E1CEsu8-0006So-C8@lairds.us>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6dqy.17aec2n1uecu0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4340.1096988457.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<E1CEsu8-0006So-C8@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <4162E242.6080709@cloudthunder.com>

Cameron Laird wrote:

>In article <mailman.4340.1096988457.5135.python-list at python.org>,
>Richard Blackwood  <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
>			.
>			.
>			.
>  
>
>>Grief, like I said, I haven't been in school since 1976.  Plus, how many 
>>schools (I assume you mean like a university or something) teach Python?
>>    
>>
>			.
>			.
>			.
>Dozens.  Maybe hundreds.
>
>I find your intent hard to decode from what you've posted
>in this thread.  If you're not getting the answers you 
>want, I urge you to be explicit.
>  
>
No, people have been most helpful.  I was just responding to the remarks 
implying that this was some sort of school assignment which is absurd 
since I'm not in school, haven't been in school since the dark ages, and 
am self-taught anyhow.  I shall try to be more explicit if I choose to 
ask any more questions.

Thank you Cameron.


From bradtilley at usa.net  Thu Oct  7 17:35:47 2004
From: bradtilley at usa.net (Brad Tilley)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:35:47 -0400
Subject: _winreg problem
In-Reply-To: <ck4bhc$ll3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <ck4bhc$ll3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <ck4crc$nc9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> The below function fails with this error:
> ValueError: Could not convert the data to the specified type.
> 
> The problem appears to be the v variable. When I make v an int, I get:
> WindowsError: [Error 5] Access is denied. This makes sense to me as the 
> _winreg docs says that value (v) in SetvalueEx should be a string, but I 
> do not understand why it  gives the "ValueError" error when I make it a 
> string. Also, I can do one key (Log) at a time, but not iterate over all 
> of them like I'd like to do. I've checked it with print statements... 
> every thing looks right.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> def log_limits():       ## 18
>     ## For winXP SP2 & Python 2.3.4
>     ## set log limits on EventLogs, keep guests out of logs and set them 
> to overwrite as needed.
>     logs = ['Application', 'Security', 'System']
>     vals = {'Retention':'0', 'MaxSize':'10223616', 
> 'RestrictGuestAccess':'1'}
>     for l in logs:
>         x = r"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Eventlog\%s" % l
>         ## This print shows I'm iterating of the logs correctly.
>         print x
>         key = OpenKey(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, x)
>         for n,v in vals.iteritems():
>             ## This print shows I'm associating the value pairs with 
> each Log
>             print n,v
>             ## Here is where the failure occurs... the v at the end:
>             SetValueEx(key,n,0,REG_DWORD,v)
>         CloseKey(key)

I figured it out. I'm using _winreg.OpenKey() as if it were 
_winreg.CreateKey() and when one does that things don't work... it's 
been a long day!

OpenKey(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, x, 0, KEY_ALL_ACCESS)
CreateKey(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, x)



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 15:27:54 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:27:54 +0100
Subject: In Praise of Docutils
Message-ID: <69k0m0tl5muu2ro99stdcbdn724eqarj18@4ax.com>

I've finally got round to using ResT and docutils. I had a little
galnce at it about a year ago and for some reason concluded that
ResTwas more of a pain than it was worth... very wrong.

I've just converted over a 68k plain text document to ResT. This is
the documentation for ConfigObj - my config file reader/writer module.
For ages I've wanted to turn it into HTML but never quite had the
patience. I've spent the last day or so learning ResT and editing the
text. With markup and various changes it is still only about 72k. The
main temptation is to use **too many** of the ResT features... I think
the ResT source is still very readable and the HTML is nice.

I've just got to see if epydoc can be tweaked to use ResT as it's
docstring markup and I'll be well happy :-)

BTW - for the curious you can see the document I produced (with a link
to the ResT source as well) at
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/configobj.html

Many Thanks to the Docutils team - an excellent and worthy product.

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 15 21:05:24 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 03:05:24 +0200
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>
	<416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<mailman.4998.1097833203.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekjz3lly.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp6fb$gvi$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<du7sm8f24h4.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp90u$s9l$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<du7fz4f209r.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <ckps45$vfq$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> Well, that does not sound at all like GPL. eric3 also doesn't appear
> to be apt-gettable in Ubuntu (which distributes most of debian Sid in
> "universe"), so there might be some unclear matters in its
> licensing...

It is at my debian unstable system at work, version is 3.4 or so - so it
seems its _no_ unclear matter. 

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 25 10:33:04 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:33:04 -0500
Subject: python file versioning
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410250506.1d679430@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250506.1d679430@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041025143303.GB26896@unpythonic.net>

There's sure to be a lot of time required to properly implement this.

If you really want a feature like this to be included in Python, then
you should study Python well enough to know what it would take to
implement it, write a PEP, and show that there is community interest in
the feature.  Then you'd better be prepared to contribute the
implementation.

Personally, I find that the ability to have multiple Python interpreter
versions installed on the same system (/usr/local/bin/pythonX.Y) along
with the usually-excellent forward compatibility of old source code to
be an ample security blanket...

Jeff
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 03:02:01 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:02:01 +0200
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<1gm98e3.ewsm1jxg9y3tN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410262047.1de735cc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gmb486.1l924gm1ing3f9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

kartik <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote:
   ...
> > Try doing some accounting in Turkish liras, one of these days.  Today,
   ...
> > [...]Even just for accounting, unlimited-size integers are simply much
> > more practical.

I see you quote this but can't refute it...

> > > as another example, using too long a string as an index into a
> > > dictionary is not a problem (true, the dictionary may not have a
> > > mapping, but i have the same issue with a short string). but too long
> > > an index into a list rewards me with an exception.
> > 
> > But the same index, used as a dictionary key, works just fine.  Specious
> > argument, therefore.
> 
> I don't think so. I didn't say that large numbers always cause
> trouble, so you can't claim to have refuted by argument by giving a
> single counter-example.

I rewrote your post, using long strings instead of large numbers, to
show the arguments are exactly identical, and equally bereft of
substance, against getting either unlimited strings or numbers as the
default.  You tried to show asymmetry by comparing strings used as keys
into a dictionary vs ints used as indices into a list, and I refute that
silly attempt: if you have dictionaries you can use long strings or
large numbers as keys into them just as well.

Your mention of lists, in fact, shows exactly how specious your
arguments for a default integer limit of 2**31-1 are.  That totally
arbitrary limit has nothing to do with the size of any given list; the
size of number that would give problems when used as list index varies,
but it's more likely to be a few millions, than billions.  _Moreover_,
as soon as you try to use a too-large index for the specific list, you
get an IndexError.  It's therefore totally useless to try and get an
OverflowError instead if the index, besides being too big for that
specific list, is also over 2**31-1 (or other arbitrary boundary).


> > As common and everyday a
> > computation (in some fields) as the factorial of 1000 (number of
> > permutations of 1000 objects) is 2**8530 -- and combinatorial arithmetic
> > is anything but an "ivory tower" pursuit these days, and factorial is
> > the simplest building block in combinatorial arithmetic.
> 
> It's nice to get some facts, rather than an attempt to prove your
> position by analogy between ints & strings ("Proof by analogy is
> fraud" - Bjarne Stroustrup)

Go use C++, then, and stop wasting our time.  If we preferred the way
Stroustrup designs programming languages, to that in which van Rossum
designs them, we'd be over in comp.lang.c++, not here in
comp.lang.python -- ever thought of that?

The analogy I posed, and still defend, merely shows your arguments were
badly thought out, weak, and totally useless in the first place.  It
does not need to 'prove' anything, because we're neither in a court of
law, nor in mathematics: it just shows up your arguments for the
worthless froth they are.  The facts (that should be obvious to anybody,
of course) that the factorial function easily makes very big numbers,
that some countries have very devalued currencies, etc, further show
that big numbers (just like big strings) _are_ useful to practical
problems, thus your totally wrong-headed request to put default limits
on numbers would also cause practical damage -- for example, it would
make an accounting-arithmetic package designed with strong currencies in
mind (Euros, dollars, pounds, ...) unusable for weak currencies, because
of the _default_ nature of the limits.

Fortunately there is no chance whatsoever that Python will get into
reverse gear and put back the arbitrary default limits you hanker for.
If the many analogies, arguments, and practical examples that have been
offered to help you see why, help you accept the fact, good.  If not,
good riddance -- you have not offered _one_ sound and useful line of
reasoning throughout this big thread, after all, so it's not as if
losing your input will sadly impoverish discussions here.


Alex


From liquid at kuht.it  Tue Oct  5 16:17:55 2004
From: liquid at kuht.it (GMTaglia)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:17:55 GMT
Subject: NameError
Message-ID: <TjD8d.43576$75.2160680@news3.tin.it>

Hi guys,

probably dumb question but after googling a lot I couldn't find an answer.
with a simple Gtk:Dialog I have this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "elenco.py", line 122, in show_msg
    dialog.vbox.pack_start(label, TRUE, TRUE, 0)
NameError: global name 'TRUE' is not defined

This surprising me a lot, I don't understand what is wrong,

Here is the code:

   def show_msg(self, widget):
        dialog = gtk.Dialog("Info Box", None, 0, (gtk.STOCK_CLOSE,
gtk.RESPONSE_CLOSE))
        label = gtk.Label("Dialogs are groovy")
        dialog.vbox.pack_start(label, TRUE, TRUE, 0)
        label.show()

very simple (hope the mistake is here)

I have python 2.3.4 Installed with pygtk 2.4.0 on Gentoo GNU/Linux.

Thank's to everybody in advance.
Cheers, Mario


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 08:40:02 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:40:02 +0200
Subject: shelve: choice of database package
References: <mailman.4327.1096966702.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6k92.1k9bkqw1a1khhoN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cjtrs5$6vp$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1gl6ttr.1pg7su9mv7ktuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Michael Hoffman <m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > See the whichdbm module in the standard library.
> 
> I think you mean whichdb?

Yep, tx for the correction (I keep misspelling it on each of the rare
occasions I use it, too...!!!).


Alex


From exogen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 01:09:01 2004
From: exogen at gmail.com (Brian Beck)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:09:01 -0400
Subject: Kerberos authentication w/ Python on Windows
Message-ID: <cl27jv$olr$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>

After a bit of searching I haven't been able to find a definite resource 
for Kerberos authentication from Python.  Any help would be appreciated. 
  Here's what I've found...

[1] http://starship.python.net/crew/fdrake/manuals/krb5py/krb5py.html
     This looks all well and good, but the 'original software package' 
referenced here doesn't work, and as far as I can tell, doesn't even 
seem to exist (and I do have Handler).

[2] The best I could find in Zope appears to just get its result from 
the UNIX/Linux krb5 command, which does all the heavy lifting.  This is 
not available on Windows.

[3] http://pygss.sourceforge.net/
     I can't really tell if this is what I'm looking for.  It does 
provide a way to interface with MIT's krb5, but it must be obtained 
separately and compiled...

Thanks in advance for any help!

--
Brian Beck
Adventurer of the First Order


From zathras at thwackety.com  Mon Oct  4 13:26:05 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:26:05 +0100
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>

Arich Chanachai wrote:

> How hard/easy is it to extend the Python syntax? 

It's not that hard to do, but involves changing the compiler and if done
properly a whole slew of other things. If you want non-functional syntax
changes it's fairly trivial - just change the Grammar file and rebuild. 
If you want a checklist of things you might want to look at when changing
the syntax you could look at this patch : http://www.python.org/sf/1013835

It's worth noting that this would probably result in a local overhead for
yourself in maintaining a private branch of python however - since this
changes your python in a fairly fundamental manner. I don't know what your
use case is though - if it's experimentation then I suspect that you'd be
happy with that :)

> Perhaps there are macro facilities for this? 

Not that I'm aware of. (At least not as far as I know in the lisp or C
meanings of the term)

> I'd like to add messages and message passing, for example.

Why do you feel you need to extend the language for this? Why not (for
example) overload <<, >> and similar operators? __lshift__, __rshift__ etc.
I'd really recommend not extending the language unless you really don't have
any option - unless that's what you're specifically interested in :)

Regards,


Michael.



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 15 09:06:41 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:06:41 -0700
Subject: Not enough space error?
In-Reply-To: <01b801c4b275$d70f2bf0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
References: <005c01c4b25b$f1124150$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
	<1097816603.20309.20.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<01b801c4b275$d70f2bf0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
Message-ID: <1097845601.20309.56.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 13:14 +0800, Joe Wong wrote:
> Hi Cliff, No it is not sys.stdin, The script write something to a log
> file every now and then. basically, it does:
>  
> f=open("mylog", "ab")
> f.write(something)
> f.close()

I doubt this is related, but is there some reason you're opening the
file in binary mode?  Log files are usually plain text.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Tue Oct 26 18:19:32 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:19:32 +0200
Subject: speed up mp3
References: <417ea290$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<mailman.5524.1098821655.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417ecd75$0$768$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Thanks
No it is meant for normal devices so resampling (re-coding) is nessesary.
He doesn't want to buy special stuff to make things work.

Ivo

"Dave Brueck" <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.5524.1098821655.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Ivo Woltring wrote:
> > Dear Pythoneers,
> >
> > I have a blind friend who listens a lot to audio books. A lot of the
> > material available today is in mp3 format.
> > For ages i have been looking for a mp3-player with speed control and
haven't
> > found any.
>
> Really? For PC playback, on Windows at least there are plugins for WinAmp
to do
> this, and Windows Media Player (at least version 9 at later) support this
out of
> the box. For MP3 devices, I know for sure at least one model from Creative
> supports the faster playback - I can find the specific model if you need.
>
> -Dave




From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 04:26:35 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 01:26:35 -0700
Subject: Artifical Life - a job for someone else
References: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>
	<416c6e9d$0$36860$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410130026.7cfc34eb@posting.google.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<416c6e9d$0$36860$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> Michael Foord wrote:
> > I really miss a decent Cellular Automota program and I was really
> > surprised that there weren't lot's of implementations for python.
> 
> While not in Python (but Java instead), I've written an
> online one-dimensional cellular automata simulator.
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~irmen/comp/cellular.html
> 
> It creates those funny pictures you may recognise from
> Stephen Wolfram's book.
> 
> If you want the source code, let me know. It's probably easy
> to convert to Python :)
> 
> --Irmen

Thanks for the offer !
I think I'll play with the other two suggestions first and see how far
I get ! Learning java to port it over might take me a while longer ;-)

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 18 09:07:06 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:07:06 -0300
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing
References: <mailman.5038.1097927312.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7zn2malsn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi> <mo7c42-692.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	<du7vfd8w5vj.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <m3acuk5g5h.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> writes:

>>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> writes:
>
>     >> Incentive to change the OS mostly works for home users, it
>     >> would have to be pretty damn convincing to make a corporation
>     >> with standardized desktop PCs to make the switch.
>
>     Michael> Again: This depends. I vaguely remember a study saying
>     Michael> that benefits of Linux on desktop systems are highest for
>     Michael> large corporations.
>
> I can believe that, but it was not the issue. The issue is that an
> individual Qt application that is only freely available on Linux
> probably isn't going to be an incentive to change the desktop computer
> infrastructure for the whole company. So in the end it means that the
> application is not going to be used at all, which is a shame in the
> case of a good application.

Or is a good extra for moving towards a free environment.  If having
free (as in free speech *and* free beer) software is important, why not
start from the OS? ;-) Or free software (as in free beer) is only
important when applications are good?

I had this discussion with Alex, Carlos and other people here a while
ago when I said it was a pity that PyQt isn't freely (as in free beer)
available for Windows.  What do I do then?  I don't use it.  My projects
are done in wxPython, which wraps wxWidgets that allows me to have
portable programs in Mac OS, unices and Windows.

As soon as I can get a new contract that pays for it I intend to buy a
license of PyQt to develop and distribute Windows applications.


Be seeing you,
-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt  Fri Oct 22 15:17:57 2004
From: luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt (Luis P. Mendes)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:17:57 +0100
Subject: backslash plague
Message-ID: <2tt4b2F24cffeU1@uni-berlin.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

hi,

I've already read many pages on this but I'm not able to separate the
string 'R0\1.2646\1.2649\D' in four elements, using the \ as the separator.

a='R0\1.2644\1.2344\D'
re.sub(r'\'','ff',a)  does nothing
and why must I write two '' after the \?  If I hadn't used r I would
understand...

how should I do it?

Luis
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBeVzlHn4UHCY8rB8RAqa7AJoDbHIXje4yP/pTZpOH0ZVe1MGqwwCfadOa
T8GTyeJU6Jve1405Xa9cuus=
=P+kP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Oct  5 15:14:05 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 22:14:05 +0300
Subject: Miscellaneous personal prejudices (was: Dr. Dobb's
	Python-URL!-weekly Python news and links (Oct 4))
References: <mailman.4350.1096990180.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<IPSdncMsiOrlUP_cRVn-hw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <du7llel9dvm.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Dan" == Dan \"Python\" Perl <Dan> writes:


    Dan> Or what about this one:
    Dan> "Or how about this:
    Dan> '>>>>> "Dan" == Dan Perl <danperl at rogers.com> writes:
    Dan> "What do I have to say to get into the QOTW?"
    Dan> Dan Perl, on his own personal prejudices
    Dan> Change your last name?'
    Dan> Ville Vainio, on his personal prejudice against Dan Perl's last 
    Dan> name"
    Dan> Dan Perl, desperately trying to get into the QOTW

I'm afraid I'm prejudiced about including myself in QOTW, being the
one that drafts the python-url next week :-).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From export at hope.cz  Sat Oct 23 10:42:08 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 07:42:08 -0700
Subject: How to start a new thread ?
References: <mailman.5301.1098433895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<81a41dd.0410230127.6c59f6f7@posting.google.com>
	<slrncnkegj.7ft.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410230642.74f9ee2b@posting.google.com>

Sam Holden <sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message news:<slrncnkegj.7ft.sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>...
> On 23 Oct 2004 02:27:13 -0700, Lad <export at hope.cz> wrote:
> > Tim Golden <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.5301.1098433895.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> >> 
> >> import os
> >> os.system ("/path/to/other/script.py")
> >> 
> > Dear Tim,
> > Thank you for the idea but it does not work without problems.
> > Your solution with os.system like 
> > os.system('start Script1.py')
> > os.system('start Script2.py')
> >
> > works( without problems) if I start the main script from console.
> > Os.system opens a new console window and starts a child script in each
> > console window.
> > But
> > if I start the main script from a browser, and that is what I want,
> > like http://myserver/cgi-bin/ParentScript.py
> > the ParentScript.py does not open a new WEB BROWSER window but starts
> > a new CONSOLE window.
> > But I would like to open  each child script in a WEB BROWSER window
> > not in console window. How can I do that?
> 
> It can't be done. The web browser decides when and how to open windows,
> your script can only send output to the browser and hope it does
> something vaguely like what you want. Some web browsers don't
> support multiple windows, for example.
> 
> You could send the browser some Javascript and on sufficiently insecure
> browsers that Javascript could make the browser open a new window
> and make a HTTP request which starts another script.

Sam, 
thanks for your reply.
If I can open console window
by os.system('start Script2.py')
isn't there any way how to send the output from that 
Script2.py to a browser? The reason is ( also) that the otput consists HTML code
Lad


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Mon Oct 11 10:27:06 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:27:06 +0100
Subject: define 'in' operator on lists
In-Reply-To: <cke3r1$su3$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <ckdl7u$m08$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<Xns957F72D5C6476duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<ckdvb6$82t$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<cke3r1$su3$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cke580$la3$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Michael Hoffman wrote:
>>It's probably a good idea not to shadow the long built-in.
> 
> Relax. It's only shadowed inside a function that doesn't use the builtin
> anyway.

I can see that, but I was thinking mainly in terms of avoiding warnings and problems if the Python developers eventually try to optimize references to the builtins :)

-- 
Michael Hoffman


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Sat Oct  2 04:16:01 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 08:16:01 GMT
Subject: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow
 after an exception is raised)
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0410011905.72494b5d@posting.google.com>
References: <4b39d922.0410011152.31fb1dae@posting.google.com>
	<4edc17eb.0410011905.72494b5d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5tt7d.18984$H11.596936@twister1.libero.it>

Michele Simionato ha scritto:


> Nevertheless, it is possible that if we had resumable exceptions we 
> could use them as a control flow structure in non-exceptional situations.
> One could speculate about the idea ...
> 

I have the feeling I don't have an use for resumable exceptions mainly 
because I was never exposed to the them.
Kind of a blub paradox.



I wonder if StacklessPython can handle this.
Resumable Exceptions are really easy to do if you can grab the current 
continuation, but I seem to remember conts were banned from the 
stackless world.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 21 12:14:51 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:14:51 +0200
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
References: <mailman.5254.1098346524.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ZFQdd.8495$6q2.7811@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <1gm0q4l.vxnjpo1f6g9o6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

John Fabiani <jfabiani at yolo.com> wrote:

> Great idea and about time.  Python needs some type of default SQL engine.  I
> have not reviewed what you are doing but may I suggest you take a look at
> what VFP did with it's built-in data engine.  VFP uses the concept of a
> cursor along with many built-in commands/functions/statements to work with
> the data.  
> 
> My only question is what happens when SQLLite becomes out of favor i.e. TK
> is today?

Same as what happens when BSDDB "becomes out of favor", or SAX, etc,
etc.  Python either keeps supporting it (likely), moves it to a separate
download rather than bundling it (sensible), or drops it (unlikely but
not impossible) at some major release.  We're not talking about stuff
that's particularly "fickle": Tkinter did its job excellently well for
MANY years, after all, to take your same example.


Alex


From Dennis.Benzinger at gmx.net  Wed Oct 20 04:45:38 2004
From: Dennis.Benzinger at gmx.net (Dennis Benzinger)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:45:38 +0200
Subject: XRC and wxPython
In-Reply-To: <41761aa8@news.seeder.net>
References: <41761aa8@news.seeder.net>
Message-ID: <417625b2@news.uni-ulm.de>

Austin wrote:
> [snipped some sample xrc files]
> ----------------------------------------------- 
> sample is a frame, and close is a dialog. Assume that ex.(sample.py) is a
> main program. When you click Button1, it will show the dialog ex.(close.py).
> And you click close button in close.py, it will close but the main frame
> still exists. 

Do I understand correctly that the close button in the dialog should
close the whole application?

> Because most examples don't show how to open another dialog, i
> try to write codes referenced by the examples but it's doesn't work. Could
> anybody show me the examples used those two xrc files or some other useful
> websites? Thanks a lot.

I don't have examples at hand but if you show your code I could help you
further.


Dennis


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 26 16:20:26 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:20:26 -0700
Subject: python, mbox files and forwarding messages
In-Reply-To: <clm0ak$ne5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <clm0ak$ne5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20041026130319.0B53.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> Can Python parse a mbox file and forward each individual message within 
> that file to someone else?

Yes.

> For example, let's say I have a 10MB mbox file that has 678 messages. 
> I'd like to send each of the messages to santa.claus at northpole.com... 
> how might I do that? Also, how might I handle messages that have an 
> attachment associated with them during the forward process?

import smtplib

def find_all_at_linestart(data, st):
    start = 0
    if data[:len(st)] == st:
        start += len(st)
        yield 0
    end = len(data)
    st = \n'+st
    while start < end:
        nstart = data.find(st, start, end)
        if nstart == -1:
            return
        start = nstart+len(st)
        yield nstart

def forward_email(mboxfname, email_from, email_to, host, port):
    mail = open('mboxfname', 'rb').read()
    lst = list(find_all_at_linestart(mail, 'From '))
    smtpc = smtplib.SMTP(host, port)
    for i in xrange(len(lst)-1):
        start = lst[i]
        end = lst[i+1]
        #strip off the mbox From ... line
        r = mail.find('\n', start, end)
        email = mail[r+1:end]
        if email:
            smtpc.sendmail(email_from, [email_to], email)
    start = lst[-1]
    end = len(mail)
    r = mail.find('\n', start, end)
    email = mail[r+1:end]
    if email:
        smtpc.sendmail(email_from, [email_to], email)
    smtpc.close()


Pardon if it doesn't quite work, this was done in my email client, and
has not been tested.

 - Josiah



From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Oct 14 11:12:22 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:12:22 +0200
Subject: Search-Filter for LDAP (MS Active Directory)
In-Reply-To: <a37aa972.0410140547.b312ceb@posting.google.com>
References: <a37aa972.0410140547.b312ceb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <njh242-p32.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Dirk Hagemann wrote:
> 
> I'd like to know how to set up a query for all computer-accounts in a
> special part of Active Directory by using LDAP.
> Example:
> all computers with a name like "ABC*" at "..., ou=Production,
> DC=business,DC=company,DC=com"
 > From these computers I want to get their OS, Service Pack and some
 > other information.

Assuming you're using <http://python-ldap.sf.net> (untested):

----------------------------------------------------------------------
import ldap

l = ldap.initialize('ldap://domaincontroller.company.com')
l.protocol_version = 3
l.simple_bind_s('cn=Administrator,DC=business,DC=company,DC=com','secretpassword')

r = l.search_s(
   'ou=Production,DC=business,DC=company,DC=com',
   ldap.SCOPE_SUBTREE,
   '(&(objectClass=computer)(cn=ABC*))' )
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Note that you have to bind as a real user with appropriate access rights 
since anonymous search is disabled in Active Directory by default. Also note 
that you might hit a server-side search limit leading to an exception 
ldap.SIZELIMIT_EXCEEDED.

Ciao, Michael.


From pierren at mac.com  Tue Oct 26 08:21:21 2004
From: pierren at mac.com (Pierre N)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:21:21 +0200
Subject: newbie: pygtk (win, slack10)
In-Reply-To: <fLqfd.16544$lp6.959@okepread01>
References: <20041025212503.94278.qmail@web54001.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5495.1098779417.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fLqfd.16544$lp6.959@okepread01>
Message-ID: <8B8B507C-2749-11D9-B6BB-000A95BF49CA@mac.com>

I was to lazy to check out if it was Spanish or Portuguese.
Mail.app is picking up the missing 'u' by the way.

--
Pierre


Le 26 oct. 04, ? 13:37, Steve Holden a ?crit :

> Pierre N wrote:
>
>> Open http://www.google.com
>> Type in the text box: pygtk tips
>> Look at the 4,710 results.
>> Should be enough for a while :-))
>> If I could speak Brazilian as well as you speak English, I would be 
>> sooo happy...
>
> Or "Portugese" as I understand they call it :-)
>
> regards
>  Steve
> -- 
> http://www.holdenweb.com
> http://pydish.holdenweb.com
> Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From DesertLinux at netscape.net  Fri Oct  8 18:03:51 2004
From: DesertLinux at netscape.net (Byron)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 22:03:51 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b9E9d.7077$UP1.4126@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi DataAngel,

Welcome to the Python community!

 From reading your post, it sounds like you are wanting to use XOR for 
"encryption."  The reason why I say this is because there are many other 
ways of comparing the content of two strings to see if they are exactly 
the same.  An example of how to do such a thing is listed below:

	# How to compare two strings to see if they are exact matches.
	name = "Steven"
	name2 = "Steven"
	print name == name2


The result will be "True."

However, the only reason that one might want to use XOR for a string is 
if he or she wanted to use XOR based encryption in order to keep data 
semi-private.

Let me know,

Byron
---

dataangel wrote:
> I wrote a function to compare whether two strings are "similar" because 
> I'm using python to make a small text adventure engine and I want to it 
> to be responsive to slight mispellings, like "inevtory" and the like. To 
> save time the first thing my function does is check if I'm comparing an 
> empty vs. a non-empty string, because they are to be never considered 
> similar. Right now I have to write out the check like this:
> 
>    if str1 and str2:
>        if not str1 or not str2:
>            return 0
> 
> Because python won't let me do str1 ^ str2. Why does this only work for 
> numbers? Just treat empty strings as 0 and nonempty as 1.
> 
> Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for detecting if 
> two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for strings shouldn't be 
> supported. Am I missing something? Inparticular, I think it'd be cool to 
> have "xor" as opposed to "^". The carrot would return the resulting 
> value, while "xor" would act like and/or do and return the one that was 
> true (if any).
> 
> 


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 27 09:04:21 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:04:21 -0400
Subject: printing HTML or PDF from Python
In-Reply-To: <slrncnumeh.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
References: <mailman.5514.1098804827.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<gsydna0gl_xp6uPcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
	<slrncnumeh.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <Ac-dnbMMN51JAeLcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>

Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:14:45 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>I don't think you'll find a cross-platform approach to handle
>>all your needs, but there are a few options.  The only one
>>that I'm familiar with at all would be using ActiveX to
>>control IE (for HTML files) and Acrobat Reader (for PDF)
>>through the documented interfaces.  From Python it's not
> 
> But that's not very cross-platform, is it?
> I know of no cross-platform way :-/

Definitely not cross-platform, as I attempted to note.
(My "there are a few options" should perhaps have said
"there are options if you are willing to give that up"
or something.)

Donnal did say "cross platform if possible", but is
clearly working on Windows so I figured they were valid
options.

-Peter


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Oct 17 21:32:48 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:32:48 GMT
Subject: md5 and large files
In-Reply-To: <cpafz4cal6a.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
References: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<4172a5f6$0$28202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4172AA52.9030606@vt.edu>
	<cpafz4cal6a.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
Message-ID: <43Fcd.6379$6k2.3374@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Nelson Minar wrote:
> If all you want to do is verify that a file is not corrupt, MD5 is the
> wrong algorithm to use. Use something fast like crc32.

How much faster is that in Python?  It looks about the
same to me.

 >>> def crc32file(infile):
...   crc = 0
...   while 1:
...     s = infile.read(16384)
...     if not s:
...       return crc
...     crc = binascii.crc32(s, crc)
...
 >>> def md5file(infile):
...   md5obj = md5.new()
...   while 1:
...     s = infile.read(16384)
...     if not s:
...       return md5obj.hexdigest()
...     md5obj.update(s)
...
 >>> os.path.getsize("/Users/dalke/databases/sprot/sprot40.dat")
320673785L
 >>> if 1:
...   t1 = time.time()
...   print md5file(open("/Users/dalke/databases/sprot/sprot40.dat"))
...   t2 = time.time()
...   print t2-t1
...
a2f54de61e4db857aadce04298ab177e
10.9378840923
 >>> if 1:
...   t1 = time.time()
...   print crc32file(open("/Users/dalke/databases/sprot/sprot40.dat"))
...   t2 = time.time()
...   print t2-t1
...
-1921799528
10.7424199581
 >>>

I think most of the time is spent doing I/O, not computing
the checksum.  That's probably even true if written in C.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Oct  5 15:52:43 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:52:43 +0200
Subject: [ANN] PySQLite 1.0
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4368.1097005231.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4368.1097005231.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4162fb8d$0$14941$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Gerhard Haering wrote:
> Announcement for PySQLite 1.0

Yay!

> - Added note to docs about -DTHREADSAFE=1 being a good idea when compiling SQLite.

Indeed, once I sorted out the multithreading issues that I had
in my server app, it has now been running reliably for 3+ weeks non-stop.
Who said that online web applications need a 'true' database backend :-)
(if anyone is interested, the site is www.promozilla.nl)

Good luck with new Pysqlite for sqlite 3. It's interesting stuff.

--Irmen de Jong


From http  Tue Oct  5 22:48:45 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 19:48:45 -0700
Subject: Job postings
References: <41634A6E.D0A49DCD@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7xpt3wtvci.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jive Dadson <jdadson at yahoo.com> writes:
> Where can I post a job description for a Python programmer?  He or she
> would have to know both application programming in Python, and should be
> able to port Python to a "friendly" operating system.

I think you just posted one.  What's the target OS?  Where's the job?


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Fri Oct 29 11:22:45 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:22:45 +0200
Subject: Question about PyList
In-Reply-To: <J_sgd.13543$ta5.6964@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <J_sgd.13543$ta5.6964@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cltn83$lpr$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Adonis wrote:
> Is there a C API equivalent to list.extend() and list.pop()? I have looked 
> through the documentation and googled, but nothing pinning the donkey.
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Adonis 
> 
> 

As Alex Martelli pointed out some messages back , you can use the 
PyObject_CallMethod function.

HTH,
--
Vincent Wehren


From jerf at jerf.org  Mon Oct 11 14:52:03 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:52:03 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.10.16.48.24.930075@jerf.org>
	<4169982d.4238722751@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.10.19.48.01.604089@jerf.org>
	<4169c7ad.4250882926@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.11.00.12.36.26295@jerf.org>
	<416a0afc$0$5686$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.11.15.12.33.931181@jerf.org>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:24:28 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2004-10-11, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
> 
>> With respect, this isn't something to doubt or not doubt.
>> There is one, and only one, way to represent any positive
>> number in base two, since encoding sign is not an issue.
>> Assuming an extra bit to show sign, there is one and only one
>> way to represent any negative number, too.
> 
> That's news to me.  I've used three different base-2
> representations for negative numbers in the past week, and I
> can think of at least one other one I've used in the past.

I am aware of only one encoding that uses a single bit to represent sign,
as I stipulated, and discarding endianness issues I'm having a hard time
imagining what reasonable alternatives there are.

>> (Zero gets to be the exception since then you can have
>> positive and negative zero,
> 
> That depends on which base-2 representation you've chosen. In
> two's compiliment and excess-N representations, there is only
> one zero value.  In signed-magnitude there may be two.

I explicitly only discussed signed-magnitude: "Assuming an extra bit to
show sign".

Normally I'd exhort you to read more carefully but Bengt pointed out some
places I wasn't rigorous with my terms. :-) So I earned this.


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Oct 21 17:30:55 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 14:30:55 -0700
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
	exception
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
	<cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<4176836E.4000507@holdenweb.com>
	<cl64rp$4kt$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<1glzcek.6eh93i3wp035N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cl7k5o$kbh$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410211330.5d370e7@posting.google.com>

> The only problematic case is a tuple as only argument, everything else 
> should work. So there are three possible solutions for backward compatibility:
> 
> 1) document the change :o)
> 2) check for a dictionary as first argument
> 3) check for a tuple as first argument
> 
> Since the tuple is the only problematic thing you could hand in, I 
> personally feel a preference for making that the "exception" (i.e. I vote 
> for 3).
> 

I would prefer (2), as the change is catering for the specific use
case of a single dictionary argument. This is what is currently in
CVS.

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From rtilley at vt.edu  Sun Oct 17 13:22:26 2004
From: rtilley at vt.edu (Brad Tilley)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:22:26 -0400
Subject: md5 and large files
In-Reply-To: <4172a5f6$0$28202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<4172a5f6$0$28202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <4172AA52.9030606@vt.edu>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Brad Tilley wrote:
> 
>> Is reading the first 4096 bytes of the files and calculating the md5 
>> sum based on that sufficient for uniquely identifying the files or am 
>> I going about this totally wrong? Any advice or ideas appreciated.
> 
> 
> Clearly, you need to use the same procedure for later verification. The
> usual approach is to compute the md5sum for the entire file.
> 
> Whether this is sufficient somewhat depends on what you want to achieve:
> - uniquely identify the file: this works reliable if there is some
>   guarantee that no two such files will be identical within the first
>   4096 bytes. If your files are, say, log files with different starting
>   dates, and the log file lines contain the starting dates, this is a
>   safe assumption. If these are different versions of essentially the
>   same file (e.g. different compilations of the same source code), I
>   would not bet that different files already differ within the first
>   4096 bytes.
> 
> - verify that the file is not corrupted, tampered with, modified.
>   Your approach is clearly insufficient, as it can only detect
>   modifications within the first 4096 bytes.

I would like to verify that the files are not corrupt so what's the most 
efficient way to calculate md5 sums on 4GB files? The machine doing the 
calculations is a small desktop with 256MB of RAM.


From j at jochem.{N0SP4M}.tv  Mon Oct  4 04:20:16 2004
From: j at jochem.{N0SP4M}.tv (Berends)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:20:16 +0200
Subject: detecting socket in use on localhost
In-Reply-To: <1gl4lmg.1das1ob1esi359N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <cjqssg$bh7$1@news.tudelft.nl>
	<1gl4lmg.1das1ob1esi359N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cjr140$jde$1@news.tudelft.nl>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Berends <j at jochem.{N0SP4M}.tv> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I am looking for some code to detect whether or not there is already a
>>listener to a socket (tcp or udp) on the localhost.
> 
> 
> Hmmm, you mean to a _port_, I guess...?
> 
correct. 1 agent listens on a _single_ port. agents of the same sort can 
listen to a single port within a range of ports where similar / other 
agents can be active aswell. In my case say 16000-16029.

> 
>>I am writing some software that can be run multiple times on a localhost
>>and each will instantiate a listener in a range of ports. I have checked
>>several resources (Cookbook, Python Network Programming (Goerzen), 
>>Programming Python(Lutz)) but cannot find the crux.
>>
>>Anyone care to point me to some nice methods?
> 
> 
> If you need a cross-platform solution I think you'll need to adopt a
> trial-and-error strategy.  Two main possibilities: 

 > [1] try connecting to
> that port and see if that succeeds (then there must be some listener) or
> fails (then, probably no listener); 

> [2] try binding to that port and see if
> that succeeds (then, no listener) or fails because nobody's listening.
> In most situations I'd go for the latter, as the former may be less
> reliable and might have undesired side effects (at a minimum, footprints
> in the listener's logs); however, the latter may not be feasible if the
> ports you want to check are privileged ones (<=1024 or whatever) and
> your process lacks the necessary privileges.
> 
Check indeed. These two approaches will be explored, starting with the 
try, except pattern. It will be a unprivileged port (16000 up) so 
privileges wont be a problem.

I found another solution and that is parse the netstat information on 
the host and grep the range of ports and see if something is returned.

In any case thanks for your reply, feedback will be given.

Jochem


From p at ulmcnett.com  Thu Oct  7 10:36:28 2004
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:36:28 -0700
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
In-Reply-To: <71fam01oatd8g87d6dpacbn2mcku9pe4j1@4ax.com>
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
	<DaKdnbspTNXGvfjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<71fam01oatd8g87d6dpacbn2mcku9pe4j1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200410070736.28774.p@ulmcnett.com>

Richie Hindle writes:

> [Peter]
>
> > If I expected many visitors
> > from corporate environments, I'd not think this approach
> > would have a "reasonably low margin of error".  Almost any
> > such environment will have a firewall and masquerade
> > multiple users as the same address.
>
> Some (many? all? negligibly few? I don't know) proxy
> firewalls will tell you which internal address the request
> came from, so you can combine the two to get a unique address
> for that user.

I'd say "negligibly few", since there really isn't good reason 
to give the world your internal ip address. Anyway, you can't 
count on it, and you wouldn't have a basis to know what 
percentage weren't unique.

Cookies won't work for you?

-- 
Paul McNett
Independent Software Consultant
http://www.paulmcnett.com


From BruceWhoHKL at gawab.com  Wed Oct 20 05:44:22 2004
From: BruceWhoHKL at gawab.com (BruceKL WhoH)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:44:22 +0800
Subject: How to connect to ftp server via proxy using ftplib????
Message-ID: <20041020094239.79D741E4002@bag.python.org>

Hi,all
     I am trying to write a simple ftp client, and
I found ftplib module. But my app needs to connect to server
via proxy, I cannot find the way to do this using ftplib .
As we know ,most ftp client app(such as FlashFXP,CuteFtp) can connect to ftp server via proxy.
How to do this?
     Please point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance. 
	

		

????????BruceKL WhoH
????????BruceWhoHKL at gawab.com
??????????2004-10-20

From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 12:59:45 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:59:45 -0400
Subject: __author__
In-Reply-To: <10lqsl4ma3pq33@corp.supernews.com>
References: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>
	<VtydnQODWZ6x78DcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<10lqsl4ma3pq33@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <PMadnSzsW4mcEMDcRVn-qA@powergate.ca>

Jeffrey Froman wrote:
> Peter L Hansen wrote:
>>they will never actually be used (except for __version__)
> 
> So what uses __version__ ?

Very many third party packages I have installed.  It's
not that it is *consumed* by anything, but that it seems to
be a very widely used convention.

A quick scan shows it is present in:

- Twisted
- SOAPpy
- wxPython
- ReportLab
- libxml2
- fpconst
- metakit
- mx stuff
- matplotlib
- docutils
- Numeric
- OpenGL
- PIL
- pysco
- pyPgSQL
- py2exe

-Peter


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Oct 18 04:37:22 2004
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 01:37:22 -0700
Subject: Quixote vs mod_python
References: <mailman.4928.1097739363.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41728001$0$21874$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>
Message-ID: <5339b60d.0410180037.61f73928@posting.google.com>

huy <nytimes at swiftdsl.com.au> wrote in message news:<41728001$0$21874$61ce578d at news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>...
> 
> There is only one problem I find with mod_python and that is 
> "debugging". You have to actually run it just to find out syntax errors 
> because of the apache import.
> 
> Any guidance is appreciated.

I imagine you could just catch the ImportError and ignore it, if
syntax errors are the only things that bother you, but for more
thorough testing it would be necessary to define "pretend" functions,
classes and objects that behave enough like their "real" mod_python
equivalents for you to be able to run your handler in other
environments (from the command line, for example).

Paul


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Oct 11 21:55:52 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:55:52 -0700
Subject: From dictionary keys to variables
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410110433.172a6c26@posting.google.com>
References: <6f402501.0410110433.172a6c26@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10mme8ars7bdaeb@corp.supernews.com>

Michael Foord wrote:

>I use a module called COnfigObj to read my config files into python.
>It exposes them as a dictionary.
>
>I often find myself writing code like :
>
>valuelist = ['name1', 'name2', 'name3'....]
>config = ConfigObj(filename, configspec=valuelist)
>name1 = config['name1']
>name2 = config['name2']
>name3 = config['name3']
>  
>

Any reason why it's necessary to define variables instead of just using 
the dict?  You're probably not really saving anything by doing this...  
there *might* be a slight savings in typing if you use the names 
numerous times, but directly accessing the dictionary makes it clearer 
where your values are coming from.  And dict lookups are fast, so unless 
you're using these valuables repeatedly inside a tight loop, you won't 
get significant speed savings.  (If you *are* using some inside a tight 
loop, then it's sensible to hoist the lookup out of the loop, but don't 
do this until you know that that loop is a significant source of 
slowdown -- as they say, premature optimization is the root of all evil.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From lbates at syscononline.com  Fri Oct 22 16:36:59 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:36:59 -0500
Subject: String and quotation marks
In-Reply-To: <clbnkp$245$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <clbnkp$245$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <XZ6dnX5F5L718uTcRVn-tQ@comcast.com>

M. Clift wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I'm displaying some static text in wx.python. All is ok if I write the text
> as so;
> 
>  self.label_1 = wx.StaticText(self, -1, " categggirlcow")
> 
> However I have the names as a string without quotes
> 
>         names = ['cat','egg','girl','cow']
> 

names is a list of strings so you just need to join
them together and if your example is correct prepend
a single space.

self.label_1=wxStaticText(self, -1, " "+"".join(names))

This would produce exactly the same string as
" categggirlcow" that you pass in as a literal.

Larry Bates


From export at hope.cz  Fri Oct 15 10:50:28 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 07:50:28 -0700
Subject: os.system  vs. Py2Exe
References: <81a41dd.0409280200.1a74edd1@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4536.1097186371.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410150650.330abca1@posting.google.com>

"Michael P. Dubner" <dubnerm-news at mail.ru> wrote in message news:<mailman.4536.1097186371.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Lad wrote:
> 
> >I used Py2exe to compile my script( I use XP).
> >The compiled script works OK on my XP where Python is installed.
> >But when I install the compiled exe to another computer,
> > 
> >os.system 
> >
> >causes the following  error:
> >Bad file or command name
> >
> >Any help would be appreciated.
> >Lad
> >  
> >
> Check if
> os.system('start /wait File.txt')
> is working under Win9x.
> It's for sure will work under WinNT+

os.system('start /wait File.txt') WORKS!! Thanks a lot
Lad


From cmg at dok.org  Fri Oct 15 11:07:48 2004
From: cmg at dok.org (Chris Green)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:07:48 -0400
Subject: Why does super take a class name as the argument?
Message-ID: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>

Good day,

I've done a bit of searching in the language reference and a couple
pages referring the behavior of super() but I can't find any
discussion of why super needs the name of the class as an argument.
Feel free to point me into the bowels of google if this has been
discussed to death already.

super(self).method() seems like super could just do the right
thing...

super(kls).method() could also work if you needed access up the tree
to from a classmethod. Maybe I'm missing something with Metaclasses.

The reason I'm asking about this is I find myself cursing super every
time I want to change the name of the class I'm working on when one of
the reason's that super was implemented (I'm guessing) was to insulate
derived classes from the name changes of where they inherited from.

Thanks,
Chris
-- 
Chris Green <cmg at dok.org>
"Yeah, but you're taking the universe out of context."


From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Fri Oct  8 05:52:00 2004
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:52:00 +0200
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
In-Reply-To: <ck5neo$t2n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ck5neo$t2n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20041008095200.GA25498@nl.linux.org>

Peter Otten wrote:
>  >>> lines = iter("abc")
> >>> for first in lines:
> ...     print first
> ...     break
> ...
> a
> >>> for line in lines:
> ...     print line
> ...
> b
> c
> 
> Unless it hurts your feelings to unconditionally break out of a for-loop,
> that is.

How about:

>>> lines = iter("abc")
>>> first = lines.next()
>>> print first
a
>>> for line in lines:
...  print line
...
b
c

Would hurt less feeling I presume.

Gerrit.

-- 
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 08/10 11:25:
	11.0?C Few clouds mostly cloudy wind 0.9 m/s None (57 m above NAP)
-- 
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of
unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the
military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of
misplaced power exists and will persist.
    -Dwight David Eisenhower, January 17, 1961


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 14:11:48 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:11:48 -0700
Subject: Ergonomics (was Re: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4841.1097672550.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<du7r7oa1dst.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>	<I4j9d.5365$UP1.2717@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<du7655lh914.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>	<mailman.4800.1097635300.5135.python-list@python.org>	<du7r7o3ytii.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>	<1097654015.10090.22.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<mailman.4841.1097672550.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10mqrqbpob0lf75@corp.supernews.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:53:35 -0700, Cliff Wells
><clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 10:19 +0300, Ville Vainio wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>"Cliff" == Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> writes:
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>    Cliff> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 12:08 +0300, Ville Vainio wrote:
>>>
>>>    >> Incidentally, I've remapped my keyboard so that ( and ) don't
>>>    >> require pressing shift.
>>>
>>>    Cliff> *smacks forehead and cries*
>>>
>>>Why? Ergonomics is a matter that is taken into account way too rarely,
>>>just observe how frequently programmers complain about RSI these
>>>days. Python is pretty ergonomic for the most part (not too much
>>>punctuation, popular habit of preferring lowercase letters) but it's
>>>often a good idea to go for a little extra edge :).
>>>      
>>>
>>I'm crying because I've been hitting shift 8000 times a day for 20 years
>>when such a simple solution was right in front of my face :P
>>    
>>
>
>Totally off topic -- if you were to design a new keyboard, where do
>you would put the parenthesis? After reading that I was wondering
>about what is the best choice:
>
>1) put each parenthesis on one side of the keyboard (open in the left
>hand, close in the right hand);
>
>2) keep both parenthesis on the right side of the keyboard, where
>there are a few spare keys, _including_ the ones for square brackets
>and regular brackets (I have a brazilian ABNT-2 keyboard);
>
>3) design a new block of keys, similar to the (Insert/Delete,
>Home/End, PgUp/PgDn) block, with quick punctuation symbols [...]
>  
>

The problem with this is that you're taking your hand too far away from 
the center of the keyboard.  You want something that you can reach 
easily, without significant stretching and without needing to watch 
carefully when you return your hand to the home row.  I'd personally be 
inclined towards option 2.

Heck, that would really only require a slight remapping on my current 
keyboard, at least to get parens accessible without shifting -- 
currently [/{ and ]/} are just to the right of P; I can see an advantage 
to remapping those keys to be (/[ and )/], and putting { and } above 9 
and 0 where the parens are now... 

Of course, for me it's not worth customizing my keymapping, because I 
end up working on a variety of machines often enough (frequently in the 
sense of "fixing", rather than just trying to get my own work done).  
Switching back and forth from a custom keymap to the standard one would 
be confusing enough to counteract any gains I'd make from a more 
ergonomic arrangement of keys.  (Now, if I could convince everyone 
worldwide to switch to (nationalized keyboards based off of) a 
Dvorak-style arrangement, that'd be a different matter....  :) )

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Oct  7 09:37:31 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:37:31 +0200
Subject: ctypes, error when calling function
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4497.1097154521.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <4165275e$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<mailman.4497.1097154521.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4165466c$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Richie Hindle wrote:
>>AttributeError: function 'midiOutGetDevCaps' not found
> 
> Like a lot of Windows APIs, midiOutGetDevCaps exists in both ANSI and
> Unicode variants.  You need to call midiOutGetDevCapsA or
> midiOutGetDevCapsW according to whether you're using ANSI or Unicode.

Ah, ok. That nailed it.

> Because you're using c_char in your MIDIOUTCAPS structure:

Now I only need to get my MIDIOUTCAPS structure correct.

ValueError: Procedure probably called with too many arguments (60 bytes 
in excess)

But I can probably figure that out myself.

thanks!

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 26 14:08:16 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:08:16 -0700
Subject: Fedora 1 and Eric3
In-Reply-To: <clm2o0$h7q$3@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
References: <cldm39$qo7$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <clfgq2$5hs$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<qKPed.292$rs5.51451@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.5402.1098672126.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clm2o0$h7q$3@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <1098814097.22370.345.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 19:52 +0200, Bats wrote:
> Cliff Wells had this to say:
> > http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3?stat=3&search=qscintilla&srodzaj=3
> > http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3?stat=3&search=PyQt-qscintilla&srodzaj=3
> > 
> > You'll also need sip and qt, but these are most likely already
> > installed.  If not, Googling for, say 'sip rpm' will be left as an
> > excercise ;)
> > 
> > python install.py (as root)
> > 
> > Total time: about 5 minutes
> 
> Am looking for a yum repos for the Eric rpms. I will go all "apt-get" mad
> when I have no option left!
> Thanks for the links, I recall having all these rpms and it still did not
> work - are you on Fedora 1 ?

Fedora 2, but that shouldn't make much difference.  If the versions of
those rpms for FC1 aren't as new as the FC2 ones the you can just get
the .src rpm and rebuild it.   

I'm guessing the source of your past problems is that the PyQt rpms you
tried to use didn't have qtext built in, which is required for eric but
apparently optional in the build.  The ones I pointed you to have that
built in.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Oct 28 15:01:56 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:01:56 +0200
Subject: how to config non-Lib\site-packages\ distutils windows install
 destination directory?
In-Reply-To: <4180201d.939917990@news.oz.net>
References: <4180201d.939917990@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41814216$0$163$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> I'd like to override the default
> 
>    d:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\
> 
> destination, at least as an option. I have used installshield in the past,
> which gives extensive control over just about everything, if you want to go
> to the trouble. Is "the trouble" in this case modifying distutils?

You could modify PC/bdist_wininst/install.c, i.e. the two instances of 
SCHEME. Alternatively, you can just modify the file names in the zip
file to not refer to PURELIB resp. PLATLIB anymore.

Regards,
Martin


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 03:16:29 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:16:29 +0200
Subject: Newbie Question
References: <4C1ed.5243$TU5.3711@trndny06>
Message-ID: <1gm1wb6.16ebte0n5rgqdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

John Smith <oldphartyankee at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Aside from the text online, what are the best books for a newbie learning
> python as their first language? 

I would suggest "Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner" (by
Michael Dawson, ISBN: 1-59200-073-8).


Alex



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 26 03:02:47 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:02:47 -0700
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0410251743.a486d0b@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.5368.1098558180.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<5c882bb5.0410251743.a486d0b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041025230144.0B3B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile) wrote:
> 
> Thank you Josiah Carlson for all your comments.
> 
> >so argument over it is a moot point.
> [...]
> >Please stop advocating the removal of useful features.
> [...]
> >Stop complaining about them.
> 
> Well, I haven't done something bad, so I think I still have the rights
> to discuss, suggest and ask things here.

Oh, yes, feel free to complain about features that are being used by
literally thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of people today.
Maybe tomorrow we'll start considering removing something so useful as
list mutation, dictionary mutation, object mutation, etc.

Or maybe not.


> >In my opinion, the syntax-less case statement described in the PEP is
> >pure.  That is, no new syntax is needed, but if your if/elif/else
> >statements are of a certain format, you gain the speed of dictionary
> >dispatch.  I believe that any case-statement-like behavior in Python
> >will likely be of this sort.
> 
> I'm still too much ignorant of Python to understand this :-)

I'll quote the section of the PEP:

         It should be possible for the compiler to detect an
         if-elif-else construct which has the following signature:

                      if x == 'first':...
                      elif x == 'second':...
                      else:...

         i.e. the left hand side always references the same variable,
         the right hand side a hashable immutable builtin type.  The
         right hand sides need not be all of the same type, but they
         should be comparable to the type of the left hand switch
         variable.


Immutables are anything with type of: int, long, str, unicode, tuple;
though tuples must contain only other immutables to still be immutable.


> >I could have sworn that either append or prepend was fast
> 
> On Mathematica (4.0 ore less) both append and prepends are O(n) and
> quite slow, if you want to do a much faster "append" to Mathematica
> lists, you have to create a nested list:
> [a, [b, [c, [d]]]]
> And then Flatten it. This can be hundred times faster for 10000
> elements.
> A group of functions to do it re-defining the heads of the structure:

That was it.  Well, in Python you no longer need to create recursive
structures.  Just use list.append(), it is fast (you don't need to rely
on a Mathematica mis-feature *wink*). If you wanted to prepend instead,
just remember to list.reverse() it before you are done.


> >The only problem is education. Once one becomes educated about the
> >side-effects of append/extend/etc., one rarely has problems of this
> >kind,<
> 
> Okay. I'll take my time to learn more and I'll see if you are right.

Think of it like this.  You had likely been reassigning lists to
themselves in order to repeatedly append or prepend to a Mathematica
list because standard appends and prepends were slow.  Now you don't
have to.  You were doing explicit mutation before, now you are doing
implicit mutation without need to flatten.  Will the wonders never cease?


> >Honestly, I (and likely many others) don't care that Mathematica can
> >be faster. C can be faster, Java can be faster, Perl can be faster. 
> >We use Python for varying reasons and for varying purposes.<
> 
> I didn't meant to offend Python... I appreciate many languages at the
> same time :-)

Ahh, but you said was, "hey, this super duper language does things like
this, wouldn't it be great if Python did this too?"

Understand that people have been building Python for only 2 years
younger than Mathematica.  It gained some features and experience of C,
Modula and other languages which are far older than Mathematica, and
didn't limit the user to immutable types (thank god).


> (Comparing the speed of C with python is probably of little use, but
> comparisons between Mathematica and Python can be a bit more
> interesting, because they are both interpreted, etc. And maybe
> Mathematica can suggest things to improve Python.)

How would knowing about Mathematica help Python?  Mathematica is
closed-source, commercial, and proprietary; you can't even look at the
guts for implementation details.  We would be better off looking at
non-commercial implementations of Python, Perl, Lisp, Tcl, etc. for that.

And as for language features; it is of my opinion that the Mathematica
language leaves something to be desired, and I would prefer the
'features' of Mathematica language to be left there.


> > If you mean things like (I can't remember the exact syntax, perhaps this is it)...
> > fib[a_] := If[a<3, Return[1], b=fib[a-1]+fib[a-2];fib[a]=b;Return[b]]
> 
> Something like this is probably nicer and/or more correct:
> fib[1] = 1;
> fib[2] = 1;
> fib[x_] :=  fib[x] = fib[x - 1] + fib[x - 2]

If the code runs, it is correct.  Is it in the Mathematica style?  No. 
I haven't written Mathematica code in around 3 years.


> Mathematica's global hash can contain the triads: (functions, params,
> value)

Hrm...lemme see...

global_hash = {}

def memoize(fcn):
    def call(*args):
        if (fcn, args) not in global_hash:
            global_hash[(fcn, args)] = fcn(*args)
        return global_hash[(fcn, args)]
    return call

@memoize
def foo(arg1, arg2):
    ...

@memoize
def goo(arg1, arg2):
    ...


Goodness, so can Python.  But it is not necessary, my original
declaration used individual dictionaries for each memoized function.


> >If you are talking about something else, perhaps you should describe
> >it.
> 
> I was talking about something different. I have found a page about it:
> http://www.verbeia.com/mathematica/tips/HTMLLinks/Tricks_Misc_7.html
> But this page is still quite basic: with the automatic rewriting rules
> and pattern matching you can do lot of things.

In the C/C++ world, that is called polymorphism.  You can do
polymorphism with Python, and decorators may make it easier...


@accepts(int, str, int, unicode)
def foo(a, b, c, d):
    pass

@accepts(str, int)
def foo(a, b):
    pass


With a properly implemented accepts decorator (I believe one is floating
around there somewhere, I would give one, but it is getting late, and I
need to wash dishes and shave).


> >Funny, I found no mention of division operator breaking on the Python
> 3.0 wiki:
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm ignorant and I'm just confused about all this. I've
> read the PEP238:
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0238.html
> And here:
> http://python.fyxm.net/peps/pep-3000.html
> I find:
> >True division becomes default behavior

If you want floor division on integers, you can use the floor division
operator: //  *gasp*

I believe that the standard division operator behavior on integers was
considered a misfeature in prior Python versions, a remnant of Python's
C roots, which is why it was slated for removal in 2.4, with documented
"it is going away" in the documentation for Python 2.3 .


> >> Case <name>:
> >>     1: DoSomething1
> >>     range(2,23): DoSomething2
> >>     else: DoSomething3
> >>
> >>That is the worst syntax for case statements I have ever seen.<
> 
> It's just an idea, and it's similar to Delphi sintax... The PEP275
> suggests something like:

Just because something fits with another language, doesn't mean that it
is even remotely Pythonic.


> A bear hug and thank you again,

Gah, no more hugs.  Please.
 - Josiah



From matt.price at utoronto.ca  Thu Oct 28 15:28:59 2004
From: matt.price at utoronto.ca (Matt Price)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:28:59 -0400
Subject: quick regex question
In-Reply-To: <clrddj$vq1$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <20041028164648.GA32572@utoronto.ca>
	<mailman.5621.1098983663.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clrddj$vq1$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20041028192859.GC2184@utoronto.ca>

On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 08:23:23PM +0200, Peter Otten wrote:
> Steven Bethard wrote:
> 
> > Matt Price <matt.price <at> utoronto.ca> writes:
> >> 
> > 
> > I know you asked for a regex solution, but I thought I'd drop this
> > suggestion anyway (not everything really merits a regex) =)
> 
> I second that :-)
>  
> >>>> string1 = 'string with spaces'
> >>>> ''.join([s.title() for s in string1.split()])
> > 'StringWithSpaces'
> > 
> Or, without the list comprehension:
> 
> >>> "".join("string with spaces".title().split())
> 'StringWithSpaces'

wow, that is really elegant.  thank you both.

matt

-------------------------------------------
Matt Price	    matt.price at utoronto.ca
History Department, University of Toronto
(416) 978-2094
--------------------------------------------

please don't use the following addresses:  zeus at derailleur.org
aardvark at derailleur.org


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Tue Oct  5 06:16:30 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:16:30 +0100
Subject: re bug
In-Reply-To: <3e96ebd7.0410050057.29a15174@posting.google.com>
References: <3e96ebd7.0410050057.29a15174@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cjtsa1$860$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Klaus Neuner wrote:

> it seems that there is a bug in the re module. Below there is a sample
> program that illustrates it.(Sorry for its length. I was not able to
> write a simpler regex that produced the same effect.)

It might help if you told us what this is supposed to do in real terms...

> Is there perhaps a way to tell Python something like 
> 
> "Try the search for 5 minutes. If you don't find anything, continue."

Yes. Use signal.alarm(). See:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/node304.html
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 15 11:28:26 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:28:26 -0700
Subject: Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
In-Reply-To: <416FB958.4070903@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <mailman.4987.1097812131.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416FB958.4070903@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20041015082405.0985.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> ....On a related issue are the bugathons still going on. I don't seem strong 
> enough to read through python-dev right now.

Yes, they still do "bug days", though one has not been scheduled due to
organizers being busy.

If you want to check on it in the future, head to the most recent
month's subject archives in python-dev:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/
and search for "bug day"


 - Josiah



From bennie at rotzjes.nl  Thu Oct 28 06:05:52 2004
From: bennie at rotzjes.nl (Bennie)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:05:52 +0200
Subject: how come .insert() don't work
In-Reply-To: <clqa1l$jr0$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <41801753$0$62043$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<41801852$0$189$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<41803447$0$41713$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<qnkacu7qzbh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<4180a179$0$76514$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<clqa1l$jr0$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4180c480$0$76513$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Bennie wrote:
> 
> 
>>self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.tekst_in('p'))
> 
> 
> Here you are setting the command parameter to the result of the
> self.tekst_in() call which is always None. Change that to
> 
> self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.insert_para)
> 
> and add a method to your App class that takes only the self parameter:
> 
> def insert_para(self):
>     self.tekst_in("p")
>  
> That way insert_para() will be invoked when you click the menu command.
> Alternately you can use lambda to the same effect:
> 
> self.html.add_command(label="p", command=lambda: self.tekst_in("p"))
> 
> but I think the approach outlined above is cleaner.
> 
> Peter   
> 
Thanks all,
Whit lambda its is working fine.
I want to make a methode that replaces the code:
	
	def p(self):
		self.tekst.insert(INSERT, "\t\t<p>\n\n\t\t</p>\n")
	def pre(self):
		self.tekst.insert(INSERT, "\t\t<pre>\n\n\t\t</pre>\n")
	def br(self):
		self.tekst.insert(INSERT, "<br />")
	etc.

Now I have to type les :-)

Bye all! and many thanks ;)
Bennie,


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct 19 14:31:23 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:31:23 +0200
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
References: <mailman.5184.1098208437.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl3mgv$i24$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

>>iavailable?=?chain(stock,?starmap(random.random,?repeat(())))
> 
> Ah, thanks! The docs don't really make it clear that you can pass a
> callable to repeat() and have it be called on each iteration. The Python
> "equivalent" given in the docs looks like you get the same static object
> every time... :/

No, you cannot pass a callable to repeat() and have it called. In the above
line repeat(()) yields the same empty tuple ad infinitum. The trick is that
starmap() calls random.random() with that empty tuple as the argument list,
which looks a little silly when you write it explicitly as
random.random(*()).

In total, the equivalent

def gen_available(stock):
    for item in stock:
        yield item
    while True:
        yield random.random()

iavailable = gen_available(stock)

has less potential of puzzling the unsuspecting reader who, as the saying
goes, may be you in a few months.

Peter




From 1 at 2.3  Sun Oct 31 21:32:51 2004
From: 1 at 2.3 (User)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 02:32:51 GMT
Subject: List problem
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.5668.1099072329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<v2m9o0d7d1v3h4doumfkmb4djk41u0gb9c@4ax.com>
	<1gmiyon.jvyq1w1ob9r59N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ba7bo0d2uso2cmjp9tc9jof0ud9ld8ovtk@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:28:39 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
wrote:

>User <1 at 2.3> wrote:
>   ...
>> >In general, removing elements from a list while you're iterating though
>> >the list is a bad idea.  Perhaps a better solution is a list
>> >comprehension:
>> 
>> Unless you're using a while loop and iterating in reverse, for
>> example:
>> 
>> a = [0,1,2,3,4]
>> pos_max = len(a) - 1  # Maximum iterable element
>> pos = pos_max         # Current element
>> while pos >= 0:
>>       if a[pos] == 2:
>>               a.remove(2)
>>               pos_max = pos_max - 1
>>       pos = pos - 1
>
>Still a bad idea.
>
>    a[:] = [x for x in a if x != 2]
>
>is more concise, idiomatic, and speedy.  No reason to do low-level
>twiddling with indices and fiddly loops, in cases where a list
>comprehension can do the job so simply.
>
>
>Alex


Interesting piece of code.  In the example I gave, I was really just
trying to simplify a rather messy function I wrote for checking a list
of files for duplicates.  It is messy because it does two passes (read
up to a user specified maximum, if they still match, read entire files
and compare).  I use this approach because I believe it is most
efficient in terms of not making any more comparisons than necessary.
I initially attempted to do this with a "for" loop, but ended up with
a mess when I started taking things out of it.  Anyway, here is the
original function:


def dupe_check(input_list, init_read):

# Function checks a list of files for duplicates
# Input list Format is ['c:\\junk\\trash.txt',
'd:\\stuff\\junk.jpg'......]
# init_read = max file size read on first pass.
# function returns a list of lists of matching files

  a = input_list
  tot = 0;	fail = 0
  q = [];	pos = 0;	len_a = len(a) - 1
  while len_a >= 0:
    file1 = a[len_a]
    dx = read_close(file1, 'rb', init_read)
    q.append([a[len_a]])
    a.remove(a[len_a])		
    len_a = len_a - 1
    len_sub = len_a
    while len_sub >= 0:
      dy = read_close(a[len_sub], 'rb', init_read)
      if dx == dy:
        tot = tot + 1
        if read_close(a[len_sub], 'rb', -1) == read_close(file1, 'rb',
-1):
          q[pos].append(a[len_sub])
          a.remove(a[len_sub])
	  len_a = len_a - 1 
        else:
          fail = fail + 1
      len_sub = len_sub - 1    
    pos = pos + 1

# copy only lists of two or more from q to z

  z = []
  for x in q:
    if len(x) > 1:
      z.append(x)  
  if tot > 0:
    perc_fails =  100.0 * float(fail)/float(tot)
  else:
    perc_fails = 0.0
  return z, perc_fails 





def read_close(file, mode, max_read):
# Opens a file, reads its data, closes
# files, then returns data

  f = open(file, mode)
  data = f.read(max_read)
  f.close()
  return data



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Oct 22 04:07:01 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 08:07:01 GMT
Subject: help with map function
References: <e4217d28.0410212343.524a71ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns958A5BF66D2B0duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Michael wrote:

> In the book 'Text Processing Python,' they present a function that I'm
> having a real hard time understanding.
> 
> apply_each = lambda fns, args=[]: map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))
> 
A lambda creates an anonymous function. Assigning a lambda directly to a 
variable is simply an exercise in obfuscation. The same code can be more 
clearly expressed:

def apply_each(fns, args=[]):
    return map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))


These days you can express the same thing more clearly with a list 
comprehension:

def apply_each(fns, args=[]):
    return [ fn(*args) for fn in fns ]

In general it would probably be better to define it as:

   def apply_each(fns, *args, **kw):
      return [ fn(*args, **kw) for fn in fns ]

although this changes slightly how you call it.

> 
> I understand that the lamda statement is passing a function that
> accepts a function and an iterable variable as arguments.
> 
> The function passed by lamda is a map statement that maps the function
> in the arguement list against each item in the iterable variable.
> 
> However, I don't understand what is happening in the 3rd arguement of
> map though.  What does [args]*len(fns) do?
> 
[args]*len(fns) is equivalent to [args, args, args, ...] where args is 
repeated as often as there are elements in the list. It means that every 
time apply is called it gets one of the functions and the args value as its 
parameters.





















From paul at subsignal.org  Sun Oct 10 05:49:00 2004
From: paul at subsignal.org (paul koelle)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:49:00 +0200
Subject: still not happy with unittest.failUnlessRaises
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4630.1097337204.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <2sqe4iF1o3pstU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.4630.1097337204.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2sses5F1p08llU1@uni-berlin.de>

Tim Peters wrote:
> [paul koelle]
>>code:
>>print 'this is expected to fail. The "Type" column is unique in the DB'
> 
> 
> By "this is expected to fail", do you mean that the test is supposed
> to fail, or that the test is supposed to pass by verifying that the
> thing it's testing fails?  "This" is ambiguous.  I'll assume the
> latter.
correct.

[ snipp ]
> You didn't show enough code so that a reader could guess the answers
> to these questions.
My apologies. In fact, it turned out to be simple as:
self.failUnlessRaises(IntegrityError, certs.Subcacert.new, 
**self.client_tmpl)

thanks again
  Paul


From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Sun Oct 31 05:55:31 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:55:31 +0100
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<4183f2b0$0$209$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<2uiaqmF2as1ihU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<4184c277$0$265$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <87brejqhr0.fsf@chat.blakie.riol>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> writes:

> Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
>> Max M wrote:
>>>
>>>I just wonder what the difference is between .net, Mono and Parrot?
>>>
>>>To me they all seem to pretty similar goals.
>> .NET and Mono _are_ pretty much the same - Mono is an open-source
>> reimplementation of the .NET framework.
>
> Yes, I know that. But know that is both .net and mono, why parrot?

It was java, why .net and mono...
And finaly, there is python, why java ;-) ?

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From forsberg5 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  2 15:57:41 2004
From: forsberg5 at hotmail.com (Campbell Kwok)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:57:41 +0000
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <BAY12-F40ZUr3CrJRxK00025f50@hotmail.com>

Hi, I am trying to write a program for my school homework and I'm a little 
stuck. The homework have to do with barcodes and I need to read the barcode, 
then add up all the odd number positions(eg a barcode of 123456789012, then 
the odd is 1,3,5,7,9,1) I do not know how to get the odd number positions 
out of that str of numbers. Please help me

_________________________________________________________________
Scan and help eliminate destructive viruses from your inbound and outbound 
e-mail and attachments. 
http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines 
  Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN? Premium right now and get the 
first two months FREE*.



From xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net  Tue Oct 26 17:57:33 2004
From: xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 21:57:33 GMT
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
References: <mailman.5512.1098802633.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns958EF3FC2450APaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.73>

"Tim Williams" <listserver at tdw.net> said :

> Have a look at http://christophe.delord.free.fr/en/popf/index.html
> popf.py  might do what you need, or be adaptable to your requirements

Very interesting, thanks. At first look I thought the suggestion was way 
off base, but after going through the code I see your point.

As it is now, popf.py doesn't actually do what I need, as it doesn't have 
the logic to access a mailbox by itself and filter/keep/retrieve/delete 
messages as needed (like sb_culler has). It is more of an alternative to 
Spambayes itself, with specific filtering techniques ; but a very compact 
one, in a single script containing its own POP3 proxy.

So, if one was to replace the POP3 proxy code by sb_culler's mailbox access 
machinery, and have this use popf's filtering code instead of Spambayes to 
tag messages, potentially we could have a very lightweight, single-file, 
simple to set up answer to my original problem...

The two approaches are sufficiently similar (and nicely structured from 
what I can tell) that it seems doable, but the amount of hacking and sawing 
on both sides is probably not trivial either. For now, spambayes+sb_culler 
is probably the fastest path for me, but the principle is appealing, so 
call it Plan A-Prime... or if someone else wants to try it, I'll be happy 
to field-test :-)

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From f.geiger at vol.at  Fri Oct  1 09:12:40 2004
From: f.geiger at vol.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:12:40 +0200
Subject: Calling (C)Python code from Java: Is it JPype?
References: <cjeem1$5h9$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<1DI6d.223$j5.307837@weber.videotron.net>
	<cjg70t$gun$1@newshispeed.ch> <du7wtybod4b.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <cjjksb$soo$1@newshispeed.ch>


"Ville Vainio" <ville at spammers.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:du7wtybod4b.fsf at lehtori.cc.tut.fi...
> >>>>> "f.geiger" == F GEIGER <f.geiger at vol.at> writes:
>
>
>     f.geiger> GUI in a compiled lang, the gist in Python. If so, I'll give
it a try.
>
> Why GUI in compiled lang? Typically the time in a GUI is spent in a
> GUI library, which is native code.

It is not because of the performance. I never had any problems with Python
in this regard. It is because pychecker does not catch all errors *I* make
in *my* GUI programs (YMMV of course). Errors, a compiler typically is able
to catch. It gets really annoying if I aways have to do all the steps again
and again getting to the point the *GUI* part of my app just to see that I
again had missed something. I am willing to give up on flexibilty in the
*GUI* part of my app to receive type safety and in consequence compile time
error checking.

If anyone could show me a way how I can develop the *GUI* part of may apps
in a test driven way, i.e. w/o having to enter data manually all over again,
then I could forget about all this.

Many thanks and kind regards
Franz GEIGER

P.S.: Ville, perhaps you answered to my post because I'd like it to have the
other way round: GUI stuff a compiled lang (but not C++ if possible) and the
gist, which many times is considered time critical by other people, in
Python. But, as I said: I never had performance problems with Python. Python
speeds up dev'ing apps and *app-specific* things because it lets me think
mostly in the problem domain and not in the lang domain. Ever handled
strings, lists etc. in C++ or Java? Forget it! Well, ok, I have to admit:
I'm a Java newbie, yet, and thus I am not allowed yet to rant, actually. But
you got the point: So many things are just easy to do in Python and I don't
want to give up on *that*. OTOH: GUI stuff mostly is a SMOP, nothing special
(possiblities in wx are great, though. I can do things here, I couldn't
dream of doing it in, say, VB). Here a compiler really could make things
easier - for *me* and *my* apps. Again, YMMV.

>
> --
> Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb




From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 07:31:02 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 04:31:02 -0700
Subject: Open Source License Question
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>

I'd like to formalise slightly the license I release my projects
under. At the moment it's 'free to use, modify, distribute and
relicense'. This is basically fine as I don't want t oprevent people
using my work in commercial settings - but I would like to retain the
right to be identified as the author. I'd also like to prevent people
selling derivative works where my stuff forms the substantial part of
the poduct.

I'd prefer to use an OSI approved license - but it's not essential.
I've been browsing through them and I can't quite see any that
*exactly* fits the bill. Before I draft my own I wondered if anyone
had a reccomendation.

I don't need to require people to make a list of amendments if they
change things. This puts the Python license out. I also don't mind
people relicensing derivative works - a simple thanks in the
documentation and a link to the homepage is my basic requirement.


Regards,

Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From jarausch at skynet.be  Wed Oct 27 14:12:52 2004
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:12:52 +0200
Subject: 2.4beta1 distutil problem?
In-Reply-To: <hdog5h5o.fsf@python.net>
References: <417fa7d3$0$19570$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>
	<hdog5h5o.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <417fe524$0$25828$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

Many thanks,
hopefully it makes it into the CVS,

Helmut.


Thomas Heller wrote:
> Seems like a bug to me.  And it has nothing to do with Linux or not - it
> is triggered if the distribution doesn't have any extension modules.
> 
> A quick fix is this patch, at least it works for me:
> 
> Thomas
> 
> Index: bdist_wininst.py
> ===================================================================
> RCS file: /cvsroot/python/python/dist/src/Lib/distutils/command/bdist_wininst.py,v
> retrieving revision 1.54
> diff -c -r1.54 bdist_wininst.py
> *** bdist_wininst.py	17 Aug 2004 10:15:07 -0000	1.54
> --- bdist_wininst.py	27 Oct 2004 15:11:11 -0000
> ***************
> *** 116,135 ****
>           install_lib.compile = 0
>           install_lib.optimize = 0
>   
> !         # If we are building an installer for a Python version other
> !         # than the one we are currently running, then we need to ensure
> !         # our build_lib reflects the other Python version rather than ours.
> !         # Note that for target_version!=sys.version, we must have skipped the
> !         # build step, so there is no issue with enforcing the build of this
> !         # version.
> !         target_version = self.target_version
> !         if not target_version:
> !             assert self.skip_build, "Should have already checked this"
> !             target_version = sys.version[0:3]
> !         plat_specifier = ".%s-%s" % (get_platform(), target_version)
> !         build = self.get_finalized_command('build')
> !         build.build_lib = os.path.join(build.build_base,
> !                                        'lib' + plat_specifier)
>   
>           # Use a custom scheme for the zip-file, because we have to decide
>           # at installation time which scheme to use.
> --- 116,136 ----
>           install_lib.compile = 0
>           install_lib.optimize = 0
>   
> !         if self.distribution.has_ext_modules():
> !             # If we are building an installer for a Python version other
> !             # than the one we are currently running, then we need to ensure
> !             # our build_lib reflects the other Python version rather than ours.
> !             # Note that for target_version!=sys.version, we must have skipped the
> !             # build step, so there is no issue with enforcing the build of this
> !             # version.
> !             target_version = self.target_version
> !             if not target_version:
> !                 assert self.skip_build, "Should have already checked this"
> !                 target_version = sys.version[0:3]
> !             plat_specifier = ".%s-%s" % (get_platform(), target_version)
> !             build = self.get_finalized_command('build')
> !             build.build_lib = os.path.join(build.build_base,
> !                                            'lib' + plat_specifier)
>   
>           # Use a custom scheme for the zip-file, because we have to decide
>           # at installation time which scheme to use.


-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 25 04:07:08 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:07:08 +0200
Subject: how do i change from string to list
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>	<417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>	<417c1cda$0$152$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>	<c76ff6fc.0410241958.7222d1f0@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5408.1098688267.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clib6b$9ur$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <clic69$9lg$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Michael Hoffman wrote:

> BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
>> How do you do the opposite? List to string? Shortest method I've found
>> is:
>> 
>>>>>''.join(["H", "e", "l", "l", "o"])
> 
> That is the obvious way to do it.

We have different notions of obviousness, obviously:

>>> str(['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o'])
"['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o']"

:-)

Peter



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 25 15:26:24 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:26:24 -0400
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <m31xfmwqwb.fsf@g2ctech.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<m31xfmwqwb.fsf@g2ctech.com>
Message-ID: <HICdnSp-CJXCzuDcRVn-gw@powergate.ca>

Jorge Godoy wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
>>Whatever gave you the idea you are obligated to provide support?!

> One has such an obligation here in .br.  Our law demands that and a
> license can't override what is stated in the law, so... 

Are you taking my question out of context?  I really doubt
Brazilian law says that if I provide access to the source
code for open source software, I *must* provide "support".

What does this law say is the form of the support?  Do I have
to provide a 24x7 call centre staffed with nice knowledgeable
people?  Do I have to provide a detailed design document
showing how the modules interrelate?  What kind of turnaround
on fixing bugs or responding to emailed questions is required
by this law?

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm guessing you aren't either, so
I suspect the argument is pointless.  I don't believe that
I would have an significant obligation in the context in
which my comments were made, and in the unlikely event I
did, I really doubt that I would be required to provide
such support for free.  I know, you didn't say that it
had to be for free.  Well, I charge $1,000,000 per incident
for support requests for my open source software (at my
whim, usually waived though ;-).  What does Brazilian
law say about that?

-Peter


From maxm at mxm.dk  Sat Oct 23 07:21:37 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:21:37 +0200
Subject: ClientCookie problem - Difference between 'post' on the local
 network and the internet
In-Reply-To: <7o0jn01jn22kdmlpni3mh2oortrc66hpuv@4ax.com>
References: <4178F159.7060100@mxm.dk>
	<7o0jn01jn22kdmlpni3mh2oortrc66hpuv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <417A3EC1.6090603@mxm.dk>

Fuzzyman wrote:

> Are you using Version 1.0.0a ?
> There is a bug (well actually a bug in urllib2 - but it amoutns to the
> same thing) that is fixed in CVS. Either use CVS or go back to 0.4
> whatever which is the latest stable version.


I cannot seem to find a cvs repository for ClientCookie or wwwsearch 
anywhere. Or do you mean that I should get urllib2 from cvs?


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From stephendotboulet at motorola_._com  Mon Oct 18 18:36:36 2004
From: stephendotboulet at motorola_._com (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:36:36 -0500
Subject: popen and two-way communication
Message-ID: <cl1gmk$rgq$1@newshost.mot.com>

I'd like to use popen for a little script to call gnu privacy guard and 
display decrypted text to a window.

Working from the dos prompt I can type in:

    "gpg -d <filename>"

But then gpg then comes back at me with something like:

"""
You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
user: "xxxx <xx at somewhere.net>"
1024-bit ELG-E key, ID xxxxxx, created 2004-04-27 (main key ID xxxxxx)

Enter passphrase:
"""

After entering the passphrase the decrypted text gets dumped to the console.

How do I do this with popen?

Stephen

(Too bad the pexpect module doesn't work under windows.)


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Mon Oct 18 05:34:16 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:34:16 +0800
Subject: Python capability do like plugins ?
Message-ID: <cl02mu$qfk$1@netnews.hinet.net>

example :
/home/test/plugins
a.py
b.py
c.py

main program can dynamic import plugins directory's files....not normal 
?uimport?v
like winamp 




From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 00:12:36 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:12:36 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <KUo8d.3033$UP1.1475@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4293.1096947506.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<KUo8d.3033$UP1.1475@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <41621F34.1020009@cloudthunder.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> Richard Blackwood wrote:
>
>> Ouch!  I didn't expect such harsh replies.  Thanks anyways.
>
>
> That wasn't harsh.  I answered 4 of your questions.
>
>   39. pointer to the documentation on that topic
>   30. no, Python uses a different style
>   28. that question doesn't make sense for Python -- variables
>         only have one type
>   11. don't use eval (implying that Python has such a thing)
>
> and spent at least as much information in responding as
> you did in writing the questions in the first place.
>
> I even explained why I found your post to be problematical
> and left an opportunity for you to explain why my
> conjectures were wrong.
>
> Feel free to explain why we should put a lot of effort into
> replying to your email when it seems you've made no effort
> in answering the questions yourself, despite seeming to be
> quite capable of doing so.
>
>                 Andrew
>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com

OK.  I idea was that someone who knew alot about one particular would 
respond to that question, and other someone who knew alot about another 
particular would respond to another question, and so forth.  A poor 
idea?  Seeing the result, I guess so.  Sorry to have bothered anyone.

When I said "harsh", I meant being accused of trolling, attempting to 
annoy, stir trouble, etc.  None which was my intent nor did I think that 
my post would be interpreted as such (otherwise I wouldn't have posted it).

Thank you for your help.


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 02:25:00 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 02:25:00 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <uko932-mrd.ln1@lairds.us>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<uko932-mrd.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <41623E3C.2080404@cloudthunder.com>


>		.
>			.
>			.
>... but see <URL: http://www.pypackage.org/packages/python-dbc >
>for one among several DbC initiatives.
>  
>
Thanks Cameron, exactly what I wanted.


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct 30 05:16:52 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:16:52 +0200
Subject: Regex speed
In-Reply-To: <DiEgd.6304$kM.2345@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<DiEgd.6304$kM.2345@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2uh4g5F29ntaoU1@uni-berlin.de>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
> Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
>> re1 = re.compile(r"\s*<.*>\s*")
>> re2 = re.compile(r".*\((.*)\).*")
>> re3 = re.compile(r'^"(.*)"$')
> 
> BTW, do you want those or
>   re1 = re.compile(r"\s*<[^>]*>\s*")
>   re2 = re.compile(r".*\(([^)]*)\).*")
> 
> (For the last it doesn't make much difference.  There will only be
> a single backtrack.)
> 
> For that matter, what about
>   re2 = re.compile(r"\(([^)]*)\)")
> then using re2.search instead of re2.match?
> 
>> So my question is: Why is the re module implemented in pure Python?
>> Isn't it possible to integrate it into the core or rewrite it in C?
> 
> It isn't.  It's written in C.  I've not done timing tests
> between Perl and Python's engines for a long time, so I can't
> provide feedback on that aspect.
> 
> One thing about Python is that we tend to use regexps less
> often than Perl.  For example, you may be able to use
> 
> def find_text_in_matching_pairs(text, start_c = "<", end_c = ">"):
>    i = text.find(start_c)
>    if i == -1:
>      return None
>    j = text.find(end_c, i)
>    if j == -1:
>      return None
>    return text[i+i:j]

OK, thank you. I now got rid of all the regexes, and - surprise,
surprise - the speeds are almost equal. The bitter thing about it is
that there are now twelve LOC more in Python that don't make
understanding the code easier.

So the Perl regex engine seems to be highly optimized, at least for
simple expressions.

>> Is there a Python interface for the PCRE library out there?
> 
> Python used to use PCRE instead of its current sre, back
> in the 1.5 days.  Python 1.6/2.x switched to sre in part
> because of the need for Unicode support.
> 
> The old benchmarks compared pcre and sre and found that
> sre was faster.  See
>    http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&selm=an_588925502
> 
> Which versions of Python and Perl are you using for
> the tests?  I know there has been some non-trivial work
> for the 2.3 version of Python.

I used 2.3.4.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 05:05:20 2004
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:05:20 +0100
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <20041021081356.GA12496@mylene.ghaering.de>
References: <20041021081356.GA12496@mylene.ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c604102102055baebbe4@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:13:56 +0200, Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:

(snip)

> I think that a simple embedded relational database would be a good
> thing to have in Python by default. And as Python 2.5 won't happen
> anytime soon, there's plenty of time for developing it, getting it
> stable, and integrating it.

I think it's a great idea.

> One problem I see is that even the new PySQLite will grow and try to
> wrap much of the SQLite API that are not directly related to the
> DB-API. If such a thing is too complicated/big for the standard
> library, then maybe it would be better to produce a much simpler
> PySQLite, especially for the Python standard library that leaves all
> the fancy stuff out. My codename would be "embsql".

I think it's important that we realise that if Python ships with a
default database engine, its API will rapidly become the de-facto
standard, eclipsing the DB-API if it is different in any way.

Which is not to say that the current DB-API should be used. There have
been discussions elsewhere about improving and simplifying the DB-API
- providing iterators, getting rid of all but one of the parameter
styles, that kind of thing. Perhaps the best thing would be to agree a
DB-API version 3.0 over on the DB SIG, then make sure that the built
in module supports that.

> So, what would you like to see? "import sqlite", "import embsql", or
> "pypi.install('pysqlite')" ?

I'd like to see a package into which you could plug different SQL
database engines, with SQLLite as the default. So, you might do:

from sql import sql
sqllite = sql.Engine()
my_database = sqllite.Database('c:/mydatabese.db', 'user_id', 'password')

But you if you were using another engine, you'd only need to change this to:

from sql import sql
from other_engine import other_engine
other_database = sql.Engine(other_engine)
my_database = other_database.Database('c:/myotherdatabese.db',
'user_id', 'password')

>From there on in, ideally you wouldn't have to change *anything*.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon.brunning at gmail.com,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 16:56:53 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:56:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041023T224939-579@post.gmane.org>

drs <drs <at> remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com> writes:
> 
> I am looking for a list of all unique strings of length x whose
> elements are from the set a, b, and c.

Does anyone know what this operation is called?  It's not permutations or
combinations as I understand them since permutations and combinations do not
allow repetition.  I assume there was already a solution for this somewhere, but
I didn't know what term to google for.

Thanks,

Steve



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Oct 31 01:17:23 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:17:23 -0700
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
	<mailman.5652.1099050368.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ueq45F2a9e6eU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<6c6a52-r5t.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<clu3cd$oe$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.10.30.00.47.53.108306@jerf.org>
	<gr8b52-uc.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<pan.2004.10.30.18.10.03.646022@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <41de52-ja6.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:47:57 -0700, Roger Binns wrote:
>> The default implementation uses HTTP as a transport, but that is
>> not a requirement.
>
> No, it is actually written into the spec.
>
> http://xmlrpc.scripting.com/spec
>
> "An XML-RPC message is an HTTP-POST request." - right there in the
> overview, and the author means it; he's said it directly to me.

Err, a few paragraphs before that it also says:

  "This specification documents the XML-RPC protocol implemented
   in UserLand Frontier 5.1."

If I want to talk to UserLand Frontier or be a replacement server
then I would have to (at least) do HTTP-POST support.  I don't see
any requirement for a program to have to do HTTP-POST in order to
claim XML-RPC compliance, although I would certainly agree that
HTTP is the default and most common transport.

Roger 




From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Oct 18 13:12:58 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:12:58 GMT
Subject: By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <m3pt3gca1b.fsf@g2ctech.com>
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it> <m3pt3gca1b.fsf@g2ctech.com>
Message-ID: <uQScd.273$%h1.11@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Jorge Godoy wrote:
> IIRC, by reference.  It uses a copy on write algorithm. 

Really?  Where?  I've heard theoretical rumblings about
that but didn't realized it had been added anywhere.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From missive at frontiernet.net  Fri Oct 15 16:08:35 2004
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:08:35 GMT
Subject: reloading updated modules in long running server?
References: <mailman.5017.1097862215.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncn0bi3.euu.missive@homer.localdomain>

On 2004-10-15, <exarkun at divmod.com> <exarkun at divmod.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:36:40 -0700, aurora <aurora00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>I am looking for a way for reloading updated modules in a long running  
>> server. I'm not too concerned about cascaded reload or objects already  
>> created. Just need to reload module xxx if the corresponding xxx.py is  
>> updated.
>> 
>> I found something useful in module.__file__. Would it work if I use it to  
>> generate filenames xxx.py xxx.pyc and then compare their mtime? I'm not  
>> too sure about the mechanism of generation of .pyc file. Would it be too  
>> system specific to reply on?
>
>   Is it really important that they be reloaded automatically as soon as 
they change?  What if several modules are being updated in concert, and 
the change is noticed before all of the files have been updated?  
Won't the source be in an inconsistent state and probably take down, 
or at least effect negatively, the server?
>
>   I would put a big fat (possibly figurative) button on the application 
somewhere and press it when I wanted the source updated.
>
>   Jp


That is just what I do while developing my twisted/ nevow app.

I have a button which calls:


from twisted.python.rebuild import rebuild
from nevow import rend

class CommonPage(rend.Page):
    def child_rebuild(self, request):
        if testing:
            import pages
            rebuild(pages)
            rebuild(cdb)
            return self


pages is the module in which this class lives, and
cdb is the database connector and methods.

I have never had any problems with it, but I probably am not
pushing the envelope too much.



From noone at here.com  Fri Oct  1 11:53:43 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:53:43 +0100
Subject: List rotation
References: <mailman.4169.1096616272.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cjjueg$hrf$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi David,

Again another great effort, thankyou, it works a treat!

Can I also ask you if you are writing a python music app?

Malcolm




From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 00:34:54 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:34:54 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Ovp8d.3155$M05.74@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
>> Had you read the tutorial, you would discover the answers to all of
>> these questions, but I'll answer them anyways.
>>
    .... many, many lines deleted ...
>>
>> Next time, read the damn documentation.
>>
>> - Josiah
>>

> I can't believe you answered all of them, thank you.   Sorry for pissing 
> folks off over here.

As another point of protocol, when you reply to a long
post do not quote the entire post only to add a few lines
at the end.  It maybe the easiest way for you to reply
but it's annoying to those who have to read it.  Why?
Suppose you actually did reply to Josiah's question in
#28.  We as readers need to be careful in our scan of
the reply to see if any of your response is hidden somewhere
in the depths.  We don't know that you only added one
line to the end of the email.

As a consideration to others you can do something like I
did above, to indicate that many lines were deleted, or
use some other way to trim the amount of quoted text.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From esj at harvee.org  Mon Oct 25 11:21:50 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:21:50 -0400
Subject: speedier cgi and perf monitoring
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.25.12.45.39.951966@thomas-guettler.de>
References: <mailman.5396.1098656839.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.25.12.45.39.951966@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <417D1A0E.7050604@harvee.org>

Thomas Guettler wrote:
> Am Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:28:23 -0400 schrieb Eric S. Johansson:
> 
> 
>>I've seen a couple solutions for making CGI faster without significant 
>>rewrite.  The only one I've been able to locate is fastCGI.  I seem to 
>>recall something like speed CGI or speedy CGI but I can't find I thought 
>>I saw (not a puddytat).  References to this other CGI speedup tool would 
>>be appreciated.
> 
> 
> Have you looked at SCGI? It uses pre-forked worker processes.

thank you, thank you, thank you.  That was exactly what I was looking for
> 
> 
>>But I've also been playing with performance monitoring to try and 
>>improve performance with a couple of CGI that are very very hard on disk 
>>storage.
> 
> 
> This performance doesn't get better with SCGI. It only helps you to speed
> up the start up time (loading of python, connect to database, ...)

yes, I know.  I was not clear enough in my initial query.  Read further 
(and between the lines)
> 
> 
>>I have some disk intensive CGI which I have measured which showed only a
>>few tenth of seconds execution time but also takes sometimes 15 or 20
>>seconds elapsed time.
> 
> 
> I would create a standalone script for testing the performance (no
> cgi, not network traffic, ...) of the parts, which are independant of
> the cgi frontend.

good suggestion but not the help I was looking for.  What I was 
observing is that the profiling tool measures CPU time not clock time. 
No surprises after all that is what the documentation says.  The 
performance problems I'm experiencing require observing clock time (I 
believe).  So far, I haven't figured out how to specify clock time for 
the profiling tools.  any suggestions?

thinking about your suggestion about a stand-alone script, it would be 
rather difficult as I would need to simulate a complete CGI form plus 
cookies plus hidden variables etc.  any frameworks for capturing and 
replaying that kind of information.

--- eric






> 
> HTH,
>  Thomas
> 



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 15:40:57 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:40:57 +0200
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clrdkl$664$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <1gmdy4f.v3qn6flivvbnN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:

> Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> wrote:
> 
> > Is it correct to say that strong/weak typing does not make a difference
> > if one does not use any pointers (or adress-taking operator)?
> 
> You'll find a lack of consensus here on what's meant by "strong/weak
> typing".  In Python there's no way to re-interpret the bits of a value
> as if they were a different type.  For example, code like this is
> impossible in Python:
> 
>   float x = 2.5;
>   printf("%d\n", *(int*)&x);

True, but module struct lets you get the same effect, though the 4 bytes
get copied, not 'reinterpreted in place'.

 
> > More concretely, I am thinking particularly of Python vs C++.
> > So, are there any examples (without pointers, references, or adress-taking),
> > which would have a different result in Python and in C++?
> 
> If I understand your question, I believe not; because Python doesn't
> provide the low-level operators that would be necessary for it.

Well... what about something like:

std::list<int> a, b;

...

a[2] = 45;
b = a;
b[2] = 23;

In C++, a[2] is still 45, because 'b = a;' COPIED the whole list over.

A similar case in Python would make no implicit copies, just give an
additional name 'b' to the same object which 'a' names, so assigning to
b[2] would also change a[2].  Nothing to do with dynamic vs static
typing, of course, because e.g. Java would work like Python here.

I've found this one tidbit to be the single biggest stumbling block for
experienced C or C++ programmers learning Java or Python.  "without
references" isn't really true, because (in Python and Java) a and b
_are_ 'references' (aka names) to the same object -- but then, neither
in Java nor Python can you say that a name _isn't_ ``a reference''...
names always reference objects... ((Java makes exceptions to this rule
for some lowlevel types such as ints, Python doesn't)).

Templates may be another case in which C++ might act one way, and Java
and Python the other way, and may be more relevant to type issues.

E.g.,

template<typename T>
T foo(const T& bar)
{
    static T baz;
    T temp = baz;
    baz = bar;
    return temp;
}

now, if you make a series of calls such as foo(1), foo(1.2), foo(2),
foo(3.4), you should get as results 0, 0.0, 1, and 1.2 -- there are two
'foo's, one instantiated for T being int, another one for T being
double, so the 'delay register' baz also exists in two incarnations.

In the Python rough equivalent:

def foo(bar, _baz=[None]):
    temp = _baz.pop()
    _baz.append(bar)
    return temp

(and the Java equivalent, too, with everything declared as Object to be
"generic"), the same calls would give None, 1, 1.2, 2 -- there is a
single 'incarnation' of foo, a single 'delay register' _baz.  (Not sure
which way Java 1.5's generics go wrt statics; I'd expect the C++ way).


Not sure I've gotten the gist of what the OP was asking about, though.

Alex


From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Sat Oct 23 12:45:40 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:45:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Threads running in different web browser windows
References: <81a41dd.0410190115.40c63b6@posting.google.com>
	<Xns958795C60E838cpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
	<81a41dd.0410192243.27f0efc2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns958BBEE7A1B54cpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>

Lad, 

>> > I want to open 3 webbrowser windows( 3 threads) and open in each
>> > thread( window)  pages from a particular website.
>> > Is it possible to do that in Python?
>> Yes, it is possible to do that in Python. 
> And any idea how? I do not know how I can open ( from a running script
> in one webbrowser window)

I have no idea how you can have "a running [Python] script in one 
webbrowser window" without being very very competent on installing Python 
as Active Scripting Language or using Python / Mozilla bindings.

If you would be that deep into Python / computing you surely would have 
no need to ask this question...

so I assume that you just need to open 3 webbrowser-sessions. They are 
"independent processes" anyway (at least on windows and linux), so no 
nead for threading.

just

import webbrowser
webbrowser.open("http://www.python.org", new=1)
webbrowser.open("http://www.postgresql.org", new=1)
webbrowser.open("http://www.wxpython.org", new=1)


enjoy it, 

Harald



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 29 09:38:23 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:38:23 -0400
Subject: saving local dir
In-Reply-To: <Uzqgd.28998$g4.543141@news2.nokia.com>
References: <Uzqgd.28998$g4.543141@news2.nokia.com>
Message-ID: <2LydneYXb4hS2h_cRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>

Bengt dePaulis wrote:
> I just started on python.
> 
> I have c:\python23\examples\py
> and want to include that in my sys.path
> 
> How to do it permanently?

In addition to Tim's suggestion, you can also use
".pth" files, as documented primarily in the comments
at the top of c:\python23\lib\site.py.

I find this a cleaner approach than PYTHONPATH,
though the latter might be better for one-shot
situations where you want to affect only one console
window and all future ones.

(In a nutshell, create a file called somename.pth,
being careful to use a *lowercase* .pth instead of .PTH,
and stick it in c:\python23.  Put the paths that
you want in sys.path into that file, one per line,
such as "c:\python23\examples" without the quotes...)

-Peter


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Oct 25 21:22:31 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:22:31 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <clk74q$535$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>
	<1098746958.22370.116.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<mailman.5466.1098748601.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clk5qk$4lt$1@news1.ucsd.edu>  <clk74q$535$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <1098753751.22370.144.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 17:52 -0700, Robert Kern wrote:

> Excuse me. I am retarded. Please ignore me.

If one person had ignored me for every retarded post I've made to this
list you'd be the only person reading this.  

Um, other people *are* reading this... right?

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 08:31:40 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:31:40 -0400
Subject: Yet more SMTP
In-Reply-To: <20041018233926.02938.00002204@mb-m11.aol.com>
References: <cl1r6p$jah$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<20041018233926.02938.00002204@mb-m11.aol.com>
Message-ID: <cl31fc$ahi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

LutherRevisited wrote:
> Thanks for the reply, that link is down right now, but I'll give it a look
> tommorow.  Getting technical support from AOL is like pulling teeth......geez. 
> This guy was insisting that I should contact Yahoo about this.  How in the
> world is Yahoo going to be able to answer my questions about the smtp server
> that aol rerouted me too?

We had a power outage last night around 10:PM Eastern time. The link is 
back up now.


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 17 17:42:36 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:42:36 GMT
Subject: question on list comprehensions
References: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<560b81a4.0410150936.573bb6c4@posting.google.com>
	<1glsu7d.6cafdj1vxh4ebN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4172e68d.73213084@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:13:25 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Mustafa Demirhan <mustafademirhan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Why not just use while loops instead of for loops? You dont have to
>> create a new array each time you want a loop - you can simply use an
>> index integer.
>> 
>>     i = 0
>>     while i < 5000000:
>>         res [0] = res [0] + i
>>         i = i + 1
>> 
>> Takes less than 2 seconds on my laptop.
>
>Sure, this is fine, but low-level twiddling with indices isn't all that
>nice.  A compact alternative such as
>
>    res[0] = sum(xrange(5000000))
>
>is, IMHO, preferable to your while loop, not so much because it may be
>faster, but because it expresses a single design idea ("let's sum the
>first 5 million nonnegative integers") very directly, rather than
>getting into the low-level implementation details of _how_ we generate
>those integers one after the other, and how we sum them up ditto.
>
As I'm sure you know, sum(xrange(n)) is pretty predictable:

 >>> for n in xrange(10):
 ...     print n, sum(xrange(n)), n*(n-1)/2
 ...
 0 0 0
 1 0 0
 2 1 1
 3 3 3
 4 6 6
 5 10 10
 6 15 15
 7 21 21
 8 28 28
 9 36 36
 >>> n=5000000; print n, sum(xrange(n)), n*(n-1)/2
 5000000 12499997500000 12499997500000

Guess where the time and space was consumed ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 27 09:26:20 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:26:20 -0400
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <z6Nfd.755$K7.388@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<2u9hklF24n4b1U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<T82dnedQ8YiFBuLcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>
	<z6Nfd.755$K7.388@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <_-adnfiRi4tmPOLcRVn-1A@powergate.ca>

Neil Hodgson wrote:
> I would
> love to be able to just renounce copyright on my work but it no longer
> appears possible.

I haven't been trying to keep up to date on this issue, but these
guys seem to feel there is something along those lines that can be done: 
http://creativecommons.org/  (Specifically, 
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ )

By how far does that miss your mark?

-Peter


From jbellis at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 10:16:01 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan  Ellis)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 07:16:01 -0700
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Peter L Hansen wrote:
> Jonathan Ellis wrote:
> > The benefits of static typing, not least among which is the vastly
> > superior ease of creating tools that "understand" the language,
> > outweigh python's advantages in an environment when many people are
> > writing a lot of code.
>
> While it appears true that it is easier to develop certain
> tools for statically typed languages, it's not at all apparent
> that this small benefit outweighs the very significant advantages
> that Python brings to large-scale development, and to large-team
> development.

Almost four years ago I started working at a company with about 500
kloc of Java code.  Thanks largely to tool support I was able to get in
and start fixing bugs my first day (this is without significant prior
Java experience).  A more-experienced co-worker pointed me in the right
direction, and the IDE did the rest.  ("Find definition," "Find
references.")  Grep can do much the same thing, but painfully slowly --
and inaccurately, when you have a bunch of interfaces implementing the
same method names.  Even after years in the codebase, I still used
these heavily; the codebase grew to about 800 kloc during the 3 years I
worked there.  Developers came and went; even if my memory were good
enough to remember all the code _I_ ever wrote, I'd still have to
periodically repeat the familiarization process with code written by
others.

I haven't jumped into a project of similar size with python, but the
tool support for this approach to working with a large codebase just
isn't there, and I haven't seen any convincing arguments that
alternative methodologies are enough better to make up for this.

>  I'll add "especially when using test-driven
> development and any agile process", and to be perfectly honest
> I'm not sure I would recommend Python nearly as strongly if one
> was forced to use a traditional, non-agile approach to the work.

Testing is good; preventing entire classes of errors from ever
happening at all is better, particularly when you get large.  Avoiding
connectedness helps, but that's not always possible.

-Jonathan



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 14:24:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:24:28 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<cl0umu$kdm$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<cl0v8o$8a4$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<mailman.5126.1098122988.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glvcat.bqty4l1pr9hsmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> > I've given up expressing my opinion on the matter.  Everyone here
> > seems to have a different notion of what "pass-by-reference" and
> > "pass-by-value" mean.  It's funny--I've never run into trouble with
> > these terms before seeing these discussions on C.L.Py.
> 
> It is because Python does it differently from most other languages, and

Actually, where "real objects" are concerned (there's a slew of
exceptions for primitive builtin types such as int) Java has quite
similar semantics for both assignment and parameter passing.  Python's
simpler: no exceptions.  C#'s more complicated: besides the types that
are built-in exceptions you can also make user-defined types that are
also exceptions.  But exceptions apart, the 'fundamental' semantics of
assignments and assignment passing is similar in all three languages.


Alex


From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Oct 11 10:35:28 2004
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:35:28 +0200
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <416a9808$0$416$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<du7fz4n6ozx.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>	<41695425$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<1glhz5t.k4p1lz19jdab0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416a9808$0$416$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <416A9A30.7040405@sweetapp.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
>>One of the greatest sources of usefulness for 'and' and 'or' is exactly
>>that these operators _don't_ coerce their operands
> 
> 
> Surely they must coerce the operands for the "test" part if not
> for the "return" part.

Is calling a method cosidered coercing? The "test" part must call the 
object's __nonzero__ method but no Python boolean object is ever created.

Cheers,
Brian



From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Wed Oct 20 15:17:44 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:17:44 GMT
Subject: testing for uniquness in a large list
References: <pan.2004.10.20.10.01.17.525999@lolmc.com>
	<5c882bb5.0410200830.471a5ea9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <sRydd.12955$sO5.12002@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"bearophile" <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> wrote in message
news:5c882bb5.0410200830.471a5ea9 at posting.google.com...
> Alex Martelli's solution is *very* good, but there is a sampling
> problem: putting a simple printing inside his program:
>
> if not (len(results) % 5000):
>     print len(results)
>
> You can see that it slows down a lot when the dictionary contains
> about 100000-120000 different sequences, because there are many
> collisions, and it keeps slowing down. Probably a little speed up of
> this code cannot help. A different algoritm can be useful.
> I don't know... direct sequences generation doesn't seem possibile.
> Maybe a partially direct generation can be okay.
>
> Hugs,
> bearophile

Is part of this slowdown the fact that the loop will exit only when rlen
reaches 200,000, when you have just shown that it can never be greater than
125,970?

Perhaps some heuristic would opt for using sets instead of random.sample if
rlen approaches some threshold value of
len(seq)!/picklen!(len(seq)-picklen)! , perhaps .8 or so.  There should be a
crossover point at which it is cheaper to build a set of all 125,970
combinations, and then select 100,000 of them using set.pop() (which selects
an arbitrary element from the set, and removes it).

-- Paul




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Oct 25 17:04:59 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:04:59 -0700
Subject: fastest table lookup
In-Reply-To: <10nqm0t279plbb3@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.5439.1098729682.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10nqm0t279plbb3@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <10nqqfgekefmoec@corp.supernews.com>

Jeff Shannon wrote:

> Neal D. Becker wrote:
>
>> I need a fairly small lookup table, and I'm wondering which data 
>> python data
>> structure would be fastest.  I could use a list, tuple, dictionary, 
>> numeric
>> array, or maybe plain python array.  The table would be indexed by 
>> simple
>> integers and would be dense (filled).
>>  
>>
>
> Which data structure will be fastest depends to some degree on the 
> exact usage that it's being put to, but in most cases I expect that a 
> dictionary will be the best bet.  IIRC, [...]


So it seems that I *didn't* remember correctly.  Nevermind what I said 
there.  (I suspect I may have been thinking of insertions rather than 
accesses...)

Anyhow, it's still true that the best option depends on the exact 
usage.  Make a test harness that will fairly closely mimic your 
lookup-table usage, and test the performance of each type of data 
structure.  It should be a relatively easy and straightforward experiment...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International.



From jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br  Mon Oct 25 16:11:26 2004
From: jubafre at atlas.ucpel.tche.br (Juliano Freitas)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:11:26 -0200
Subject: create a XML file with DOM
Message-ID: <1098735086.6269.4.camel@swdb>

Hello!

i'm usin a DOM module to process a xml file. I'm having problems with
the appenChild function. Why in my example below i can't append the
child 'ele' into the swdb.

<swdb>
  <visualinfo/>
</swdb>

Juliano Freitas

=============================================
from xml.dom import *

xmldoc = getDOMImplementation()
print xmldoc

root = xmldoc.createDocument('', 'swdb', '')
root.firstChild

ele = root.createElement('visualinfo')
root.appendChild(ele)

swdb = root.toprettyxml()
print swdb
=============================================

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/jubafre/teste_dom2.py", line 10, in -toplevel-
    root.appendChild(root.createElement('visualinfo'))
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/xml/dom/minidom.py", line 1552, in
appendChild
    raise xml.dom.HierarchyRequestErr(
HierarchyRequestErr: two document elements disallowed



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Oct 29 18:23:22 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:23:22 -0700
Subject: List problem
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7B26@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
	<mailman.5675.1099074742.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4182C2DA.93DA86A0@alcyone.com>

Cliff Wells wrote:

> Another approach (that doesn't require creating a copy of the list) is
> to iterate backwards over it:

Another way would be to not iterate over the list per se, but rather use
indices into the list and increment them when you delete an item, or
don't when you don't, thereby going over the entire list:

	i = 0
	while i < len(aList):
	    if dontWant(aList[i]):
	        del aList[i]
	    else:
	        i += 1

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ I am not afraid / To be a lone Bohemian
    -- Lamya


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 13 04:18:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:18:28 +0200
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
References: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gljwcn.hu8qmfo9di8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416c7e11.110043444@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1gllabm.igadlt1xcmxgqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
   ...
> >>>> class foo:
> >...   def __getattr__(self, name):
   ...
> On my system, (NT4, python 2.3.2) what really happens for newstyle classes
> isn't apparent from that experiment:

Heh, of course not -- the main difference between old-style and
new-style classes is that, for the latter, implicit lookup of special
methods when needed for operations starts with the *class*, not with the
*instance*.  This is a fix of a long-standing design bug, because the
old rule was just impossible to apply consistently -- if calling X meant
looking for X.__call__ rather than X.__class__.__call__, how could you
ever instantiate X by calling it, when X is a class whose _instances_
are meant to be callable, for example?

Since this has been discussed many times on this group, as well as in
presentations, articles, websites, books, ..., I didn't think it was
necessary to dwell on the issue again, considering it really did not
affect the answer requested by the original poster; apparently I was
wrong in so thinking.  _Sigh_ -- next time somebody criticizes my posts
as being too long, I'll retort that of course they are, if I must keep
repeating such issues!-)

I just used an old-style class because, that way, I could show the
lookups happening without having to code a custom metaclass.  The
special names being looked for are just the same, whether for classic or
newstyle classes, anyway -- all that changes is _where_ they're looked
up (starting on the instance, vs starting on the class).

 
>  >>> class foo(object):
>  ...   def __getattr__(self, name):
>  ...     print 'looking for %r' % name
>  ...     raise AttributeError, name
>  ...
>  >>> f=foo()
>  >>> 12 < f
>  True
> 
> The old style does work much the same (but note the default end result ;-)
> Is that a 2.3.2 bug?

No bug: comparisons between objects of disparate types give essentially
arbitrary results (repeatable within one run, but, at least in theory,
potentially different among runs of the same program, I believe).


Alex


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 29 08:50:25 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:50:25 +0200
Subject: C API q
References: <fjpgd.120483$dP1.407216@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <2uet85F29s2nfU1@uni-berlin.de>

Emanuel Landeholm wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> I'm a Py neophyte trying to code an extension module in C. I would like
> to know how, canonically, to remove a certain PyObject from a PyList,
> from C. The solution I have come up with so far involves iterating
> through the PyList keeping a counter, and then using
> PyList_DelItem(counter) on the counter when the iter item == the
> PyObject. But this is kind of messy. I'm sure there's a cleaner way to
> do it?

I doubt it  - after all, the only access to a lists items is by
iterating/indexing over them, but not by id - so the remove() of a
python-list in the interpreter is only sugar over the procedure you
describe. But of cours you can write your own function and pass that a list
and an object :)

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From len-1 at telus.net  Thu Oct  7 15:30:38 2004
From: len-1 at telus.net (Lenard Lindstrom)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:30:38 GMT
Subject: PyGUI Homepage
References: <opsfibb8t2r0m89z@fx1025>
	<mailman.4512.1097166923.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zn2yfhqx.fsf@telus.net>

No mention of it has been made on the Pyrex mailing list where it
is business a usual.

Lenard Lindstrom
<len-l at telus.net>

Phil Frost <indigo at bitglue.com> writes:

> I had the same problem with the Pyrex page yesterday. Aparently greg has
> been booted from canterbury.
> 
> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 05:44:22PM +0200, Jonas Hei wrote:
> > I am trying to get PyGUI but the homepage at
> > http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python_gui/
> > seems to have moved (or may be its just broken)
> > 
> > Has it moved?
> > 
> > Can I download it from somewhere else?


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 31 08:48:51 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:48:51 -0500
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...
 python on ?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5728.1099211579.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>	<sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5728.1099211579.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6MydncnkdcXecBncRVn-rA@powergate.ca>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
> (www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.

Spiffy indeed!

(I'm sure there's an obvious answer, but I'm curious why
they didn't use Basecamp instead of Trac for their bug tracker...)


From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Oct 26 10:22:48 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:22:48 +0200
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
In-Reply-To: <ffd90607.0410251420.15c038cb@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<468v42-c23.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	<ffd90607.0410251420.15c038cb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <o63252-sb1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Samir Patel wrote:
> 
> I hope in future people will be more respectful to all those heros who
> works so much for python community.

Note that I released code to the public under GPL and Python style license. 
So I claim to understand the spirit of OSS and I am respectful to 
community-driven OSS development.

Ciao, Michael.


From programmer.py at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 16:42:05 2004
From: programmer.py at gmail.com (Jaime Wyant)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:42:05 -0500
Subject: wxPython - problem dynamically adding widgets?
In-Reply-To: <37f621d3.0410041214.305eb3e9@posting.google.com>
References: <37f621d3.0410041214.305eb3e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d52c72d20410041342681d226c@mail.gmail.com>

What platform are you using?  Did you call window.layout() after
adding the sizer items?  The code below adds a colored panel to
MainFrame's sizer every 2 seconds (err, approximately).  BTW - there
is a wxPython mailing list that you may be interested in.  Visit
http://www.wxpython.org and look for a mailing lists link.

# wxPython sample...
import wx

# Hey, i'm a patriot!
colors = [wx.RED, wx.WHITE, wx.BLUE]

# Create the "main frame"
class MyFrame( wx.Frame ):
    def __init__( self ):
        wx.Frame.__init__( self, None, -1, "Test" )
        # Create the sizer here / fill it later.
        self.sizer = wx.BoxSizer(wx.VERTICAL)
        self.SetSizer(self.sizer)
        self.SetSize( wx.Size( 640, 480 ) )
        self.Centre()

        # Timer to be called once every 2 or so seconds.
        self.Bind(wx.EVT_TIMER, self.its_been_2_secs)
        self.num_panels = 0

        tmr = wx.Timer(self)
        tmr.Start(2000)

    def its_been_2_secs(self, e):
        if self.num_panels == 10:
            return

        # Create a colored panel to add to the sizer
        pnl = wx.Panel(self)
        pnl.SetBackgroundColour(colors[self.num_panels % 3])
        self.sizer.Add(pnl, 1, wx.EXPAND)
        self.Layout()

        self.num_panels += 1
        
class MyApp( wx.App ):
    def OnInit( self ):
        self.frame = MyFrame()
        self.frame.Show( True )        
        return True

def main():
    # Create the application and start it off with the MainLoop method
    app = MyApp(0)
    app.MainLoop()

if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()



On 4 Oct 2004 13:14:32 -0700, Fazan <dr_burrito at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to create a wxPython-based application with a list of
> arbitrary widgets (in this case, progress bars).  I want my
> application to dynamically add or delete widgets from the list based
> on some user action.  I first tried using a BoxSizer, and dynamically
> instantiated the new widgets and added them to the sizer at the right
> time in my application.  This caused my app to hang every time.  Only
> widgets which I created before displaying the main frame were working,
> but subsequent widget creation caused the hanging behavior.
> 
> I've also played around with ListCtrl (with the LC_REPORT style) and
> Grid objects to achieve the desired result with no success.  ListCtrls
> allow text and images to be added; I had hoped to implement my own
> progress bars (instead of using the Gauge class) by resizing images in
> a list.  But the support for images in ListCtrls seems quite limited;
> the image can only exist at the far left side of the list and is
> limited to some fixed size.  In order to implement a progress bar I
> would need more control over the placement and size of the image.
> Although Grids support some additional controls such as Choice and
> CheckBox, they don't even support images and using a Grid seems
> awfully heavyweight.
> 
> The sizer approach seems pretty straightforward but I can't figure out
> why the app always locks up.  Anyone have ideas about how to solve
> this?  TIA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct  2 12:01:37 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:01:37 GMT
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <yfs1xghfi38.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<415d9229$0$18966$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<yfsacv6i3fg.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<415e7803$0$9581$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<yfs1xghfi38.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <BhA7d.1014$M05.141@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
>   ``os.run('touch', 'foo')`` [1]
> 
> vs.
> 
>   ``os.spawnvp(os.P_WAIT, 'touch', ['touch', 'foo'])``

I for one would rather use the first.  I know about the
spawn* functions but ...

> (Which spawn* is the
> right one? What does all that funny jargon in the docs mean? What were the
> right arguments again? Ooops, I forgot to pass the command I wanted to run as
> an argument... Finally -- what are the chances of getting all these right from
> memory?)

Bingo.  I'll add the above to my toolbox.  Even then I'll
need to figure out which of

os.spawnl    os.spawnlp   os.spawnv    os.spawnvp
os.spawnle   os.spawnlpe  os.spawnve   os.spawnvpe

to use.  Yes I know there's a mnemonic (p = path, e =
environment, v = something, l = something else) but I
forget them.

				Andrew "Joe Programmer"
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct 16 11:03:46 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:03:46 +0200
Subject: beginning index for generators
References: <mailman.5041.1097931341.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckrd7q$75n$00$1@news.t-online.com>

kosh wrote:

> I was wondering if there is or there could be some way to pass a generator
> an optional starting index so that if it supported that slicing could be
> made more efficient. Right now if you do use a generator and do a
> [100:110] or any other kind of slice it reads all the values up to 100
> also.

Here is an 'iterate' class that decides whether to use iteration over or
indexed access of items based on the existence of a __getitem__() method.
It's mostly a proof of concept and not tested beyond what you see below.

Peter

import itertools, sys

def irange(start, stop, step):
    if start is None:
        start = 0
    if step is None: 
        step = 1
    index = start
    if stop is None:
        while True:
            yield index
            index += step
    else:
        if step < 0:
            while index > stop:
                yield index
                index += step
        else:
            while index < stop:
                yield index
                index += step

def islice(iterable, start, step, stop):
        if start is None: start = 0
        if step is None: step = 1
        return itertools.islice(iterable, start, stop, step)
        
class iterate(object):
    def __init__(self, iterable):
        self.iterable = iterable
    def __getitem__(self, s):
        if not isinstance(s, slice):
            raise ValueError("supports only slices")
        start, stop, step = s.start, s.stop, s.step
        if hasattr(self.iterable, "__getitem__"):
                indexable = self.iterable
                def iterate():
                    for index in irange(start, stop, step):
                        yield indexable[index]
                return iterate()
        return islice(self.iterable, start, step, stop)

class Sequential(object):
    def __init__(self):
        self.index = 0
    def __iter__(self):
        return self
    def next(self):
        print "sequential[%s]" % self.index
        try:
            return self.index
        finally:
            self.index += 1

class Random(Sequential):
    def __getitem__(self, index):
        print "random[%s]" % index
        return index


def printThem(iterable):
    for i in iterable:
        print i
    print "---"

printThem(iterate(Random())[3:10:2])
printThem(iterate(Random())[3:10])
printThem(iterate(Sequential())[3:10:2])
printThem(iterate(Sequential())[3:10])
# I'd rather not:
# printThem(iterate(Sequential())[sys.maxint-10::3])
printThem(itertools.islice(iterate(Random())[sys.maxint-5::3], 10))



From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Fri Oct 15 15:57:01 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:57:01 +0200
Subject: Dxf conversion
Message-ID: <41702B8D.6000702@geochemsource.com>


  Hi all,

I would like to convert dxf and eps files into rasterised format (GIF, 
for example). I think PIL cannot handle vector graphics. Is there a 
library for Python that can read and convert dxf and/or eps files? (In 
fact, I can live with an os.exec() solution and an external utility 
program if there is no native library.) The reason I need this is 
because my customers will want to upload dxf and eps files to a web 
server. However, others must see the preview of these files in their 
browsers. Thus, I must convert dxf into GIF or JPEG. Unfortunately, the 
server is a Unix server (FreeBSD). Do someone know a solution?

Best,

   Laci 2.0




From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Tue Oct 26 12:32:41 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:32:41 +0100
Subject: parameters to logging.debug()
In-Reply-To: <200410261110284756%stuff2@obNOSPAMPLEASEcorecom>
References: <200410261110284756%stuff2@obNOSPAMPLEASEcorecom>
Message-ID: <cllu7a$75h$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Winston WOLFF wrote:
> What do people think about changing the parameters to logging.debug() to 
> be more like the parameters to print?

I think it will break a lot of software that uses the current API.

> Also, for those who like the second format better, you can always type:
>     log.debug( "index=%i  dict=%s  x=%d y=%d z=%d" % ( i, dict, x, y, z) )

That argument could also be made about your proposal. You can always type:

log.debug(" ".join(map(str, ("index=",i, "dict=", dict, "x=", x, "y=", 
y, "z=", z))))

(Isn't Python going to start auto-stringizing the items in a join 
sometime soon?)

Or better yet, you can subclass your own logger that does this 
automatically. That's one of the reasons the logging stuff is so 
extensible ;-)
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From cjw at sympatico.ca  Mon Oct  4 11:10:29 2004
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:10:29 -0400
Subject: pythondoc or epydoc?
In-Reply-To: <cjr2n0$17v1@qum07.mms-dresden.de>
References: <cjr2n0$17v1@qum07.mms-dresden.de>
Message-ID: <416167E5.3020906@sympatico.ca>



Christian Helmbold wrote:
> hi
> 
> I don't know which doctool I should use. At the moment gendoc is used in a
> project, but as far as I know it isn't devoleped anymore. So I want to know
> what you suggest: pythondoc, epydoc or something else? What is more
> 'offical'? 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> Christian
I feel that epydoc makes a slighter better presentation than pydoc and
use the former.

Colin W.


From andrew.stuart at xse.com.au  Fri Oct 15 21:29:48 2004
From: andrew.stuart at xse.com.au (andrew blah)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 18:29:48 -0700
Subject: How can I get text of the body (payload) of an email?
Message-ID: <1097890188.684790.103490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I need to get the text of the body (the payload) of an email.

As I understand it, an email has headers at the top, then a blank line,
then the body of the message.

I want to get the text of the body - every character from the new line
after the headers until the end of the message.

My objective is to do an SHA hash on the body text so the get_payload
method isn't what I am after.

Can anyone suggest a convenient way to get access to the raw message
payload?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Andrew Stuart



From claird at lairds.us  Thu Oct  7 18:08:04 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:08:04 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<1gl7k7p.1a37gv1o1klclN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<JGW8d.7631$M05.6903@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl97ps.endfhf1dfa6l0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <81qg32-33v.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <1gl97ps.endfhf1dfa6l0N%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Bully for you -- I don't.  I wish I could set a callback on a given
>object getting modified or a given name getting rebound - but I can't,
>not with enough generality and little-enough black magic to be usable in
>production code.
			.
			.
			.
Tcl provides an interesting comparison.  Tcl builds in what
it calls [trace]s <URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/trace >--and there-
fore, of course, so does (Tkinter-importing) Python!

I summarize Tcl's experience from a personal perspective:
* degradation of performance has been less than
  anyone has a right to expect, mostly due to a
  lot of good engineering by several contributors;
* traces definitely are useful, and contribute to
  Tcl's character;
* they're an intermediate-to-advanced construct.
  They warp coders' notion of source-code locality,
  and frustrate some programmers' debugging efforts
  a great deal.  Others never seem to have problems
  with them.  I use traces rarely, am glad they're
  available when I do, and they give me essentially
  no headaches.

I suspect the callback I understand you're describing would
alarm at least some of Pythonia--the language wouldn't feel
as safe, particularly for collaboration, as it does now.


From james.kew at btinternet.com  Tue Oct  5 18:44:00 2004
From: james.kew at btinternet.com (James Kew)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:44:00 +0100
Subject: Reclaiming (lots of) memory
References: <87lleo6hva.fsf@thomas.local>
	<slrncm281h.cs.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<7xbrfirc9r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<slrncm2j0h.csu.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<87pt3y44la.fsf@thomas.local>
Message-ID: <2sgm8oF1kjn75U1@uni-berlin.de>

"Thomas Rast" <foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid> wrote in message 
news:87pt3y44la.fsf at thomas.local...
> Just to clear this up, the problem isn't that the process takes too
> much memory while initializing.  [...]
> The problem was that it wouldn't free *unused* RAM after
> initialization.

Is this really a problem though, if the process is long-running after 
initialisation? If the pages are unused after initialisation, won't they 
eventually get swapped out to disk making the physical RAM available 
elsewhere?

Or is this too simple a view?

James




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Oct 18 12:26:00 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:26:00 -0500
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410180045.20947e5a@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6f402501.0410180045.20947e5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16755.61080.996999.937968@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    MC> A few weeks ago, the suggestion was made on Python-Dev that it might
    MC> be time to consider replacing the ConfigParser module and that we
    MC> should hold a "shootout" (ie ask for implementations and see what we
    MC> get).

    ...

    FM> Config file reading is an area where python is 'well served' with
    FM> various options.

    FM> For sheer simplicty of use you can't beat my ConfigObj. 

Before we get too much stuff posted (which will just get lost), might I
suggest a ConfigurationParserShootout page for the wiki?

Thx,

Skip


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 19 20:40:24 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:40:24 -0400
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Jonathan Ellis wrote:
> Almost four years ago I started working at a company with about 500
> kloc of Java code.  Thanks largely to tool support I was able to get in
> and start fixing bugs my first day [...snip rest of anecdote]

These are all things that don't really seem to be issues with the
approach to development that I use, so I can't really say anything
except that perhaps it's possible to approach development in such
a way that you won't miss such tools.  I've entirely given up on
fancy IDEs, and believe I'm more productive without than I ever
was with.

> I haven't jumped into a project of similar size with python, but the
> tool support for this approach to working with a large codebase just
> isn't there, and I haven't seen any convincing arguments that
> alternative methodologies are enough better to make up for this.

I'm getting the impression you also haven't tried any significant
test-driven development.  The benefits of this approach are *easily*
convincing to most people, and it also fits the bill as removing the
need for a very sizable portion of the tool support which you rightly
point out is not there in most tools for dynamically typed languages.

> Testing is good; preventing entire classes of errors from ever
> happening at all is better, particularly when you get large.  Avoiding
> connectedness helps, but that's not always possible.

I think I can sum up everything I have to say on this subject with
the following:

Most people who adopt Python (and I'm pretty sure *all* those
who use it for large projects) have worked with at least one
other language, often statically typed languages.

Yet they now use Python.

Most people who adopt test-driven development have worked with
at least one other approach to programming, usually those heavily
dependent on good tool support.

Yet they now use TDD.

Having experience with both approaches, and choosing one over
the other, gives one greater credibility than having experience
with just one approach, yet clinging to it...

-Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 23 10:53:41 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:53:41 -0400
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <QPmdndr7xOOG-efcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
	<QPmdndr7xOOG-efcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <417A7075.8080205@holdenweb.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> bearophile wrote:
> 
>> Cliff Wells:
>>
>>> Why not just use "/"?
>>
>>
>> Okay, I'll use os.path.normcase to convert them.
> 
> 
> That's not necessary in almost all cases.  Windows happily(*)
> accepts forward slashes in all system calls.  The only place
> it does not is in the *shell* (aka command.com and cmd.exe).
> That means paths passed as arguments to os.system or the
> Popen gang need to be normcased, but for things like open()
> you don't need to bother.
> 
Having said which it's still good practice to use os.path functions to 
manipulate paths for forward compatibility with Windows 2007, which will 
change the separator to "^" :-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Oct  1 16:16:59 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:16:59 -0500
Subject: wxPython: "Nesting" wx.NoteBooks?
In-Reply-To: <39cbe663.0410011155.1da62051@posting.google.com>
References: <39cbe663.0410011155.1da62051@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041001201658.GB31877@unpythonic.net>

If you can find a serious User Interface Guide that recommends nesting
Notebook-type widgets, I'll try to help you answer this question.

It's nice that what you're asking for is apparently hard to provide,
because users will hate it, or else fail entirely to grasp what is going
on.

Jeff
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From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Oct 21 08:09:07 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:09:07 -0400
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
In-Reply-To: <cl86oo$2sf6$1@news.imp.ch>
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch> <2tpkd4F21cs2oU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cl86oo$2sf6$1@news.imp.ch>
Message-ID: <4177A6E3.2060703@bellsouth.net>

Daniel Mueller wrote:

> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>
>> If you're only interested in the content if the file has actually
>> changed - thats a totally different animal,
>
>
> Good to hear! i only need the changes! do you have code examples?
>
>> and is under unix doable using
>> stat-calls (somewhere in the os module). I'm not sure how much that 
>> extends
>> to windows, but I'm pretty much confident that there is similar stuff
>> available.
>
>
> im programming under Linux
>
>
>
You could do something like this.

Here is something that is writing to a file:

In [5]: f = open('/tmp/foobar.txt', 'w')

In [6]: import time

In [7]: for t in range(10):
   ...:     f.write('this is entry %s\n' % t)
   ...:     f.flush()
   ...:     time.sleep(10)



Here is something reading from the same file (with its output):

In [4]: import time

In [5]: f = open('/tmp/foobar.txt', 'r')

In [6]: for t in range(10):
   ...:     print "read this from file: %s" % f.read()
   ...:     time.sleep(10)
   ...:
read this from file: this is entry 0
this is entry 1

read this from file:
read this from file: this is entry 2

read this from file: this is entry 3

read this from file: this is entry 4

read this from file: this is entry 5

read this from file: this is entry 6

read this from file: this is entry 7

read this from file: this is entry 8

read this from file: this is entry 9


If you open a file in read mode and don't close it, you can just keep on 
giving the read() operation on it.  No need to close it and then re-open 
it.  Although, if you did want/need to close it, you could always store 
where the end of the file was when you last had it opened as well as the 
last modification time and when you need to check the file again, just 
stat it and if it has changed, open it, seek to the former end, then 
start reading from there.....


Jeremy Jones
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From jerf at jerf.org  Fri Oct 29 17:53:58 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:53:58 GMT
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com> <fz3x8i1c.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.30.00.39.47.146420@jerf.org>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:02:07 +0200, Thomas Heller wrote:
> When will the linux distributions switch from 2.2 to a newer version?
> I understood that redhat probably had their reasons to stay with 1.5.2
> for quite a long time, but are there similar reasons for other distributions?

Yeesh, this is still an issue? Even Gentoo has moved on to 2.3, and I felt
like it took a while.

That makes sense because while Gentoo is a "bleeding edge" distro, the
core "emerge" and "portage" stuff is all written in Python. Moving Python
versions requires porting the entire distro, which while that probably
isn't a lot of work in the absolute sense is certainly a lot of testing.
Thus, this is more significant than a non-Python distro. (I expect this is
why there is no ebuild for 2.4 yet; normally there would be one marked
with the unstable flag "~x86", but it probably ends up breaking the entire
distro or something if you install that as /usr/bin/python, and it would
cause other havoc for this particular package to install it as python2.4
now, and try to change that later. Though I could be wrong.)

I just checked and 2.3.4 isn't even marked unstable for x86. 

I'm surprised that they don't even have them as options; Python does OK as
"pythonX.X" in general.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Oct  6 16:39:13 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 16:39:13 -0400
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f at posting.google.com>,
P.M. <pcm at cpugrid.net> wrote:
>
>I wonder if Python could be changed to use thread local storage?  That
>might allow for multiple interpreter instances without the GIL (I've
>never looked at the actual code so I'm just hypothesizing).  I took a
>quick look at Lua today and it has no problems with creating multiple
>instances of the interpreter, so it definately is a solvable problem.

The problem is that CPython doesn't have thread-local storage.  All
objects are created and stored on the heap, and any CPython code can
access any object at any time, thanks to the glories of introspection.
I'm not sure what compromises Jython and IronPython make.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 01:18:37 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 05:18:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Toward Python's future article
References: <mailman.4516.1097169723.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7mzyy1c2h.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <loom.20041008T064828-614@post.gmane.org>

Ville Vainio <ville <at> spammers.com> writes:
> 
> Tweaking/optimizing the interpreter is all right IMO. Language
> features, esp. genexps are welcome too. I'm still not sure whether we
> are at the local maximum yet.

I agree.

I also support some somewhat more substantial language changes that I think 
should happen in Python 3000 when iterators become the standard (instead of 
lists).  Things like evaluating function arguments as iterators instead of 
converting them to a tuple first.  (Without this, something like zip(*) will 
read all the tuples in an iterator of tuples into memory before you even look 
at the elements from the first tuple.)  My suspicion is that even after Python 
3000, we'll still run into language changes that we want, though I think the 
frequency with which these changes are requested will continue to decrease.  
It's one of the things that I've always liked about Python -- it's not afraid 
of a little change if that makes code cleaner and/or easier to write.

> 5. Put some effort in maturization of pydev+eclipse, making it the
>    "obvious" choice for the freeloaders who still want a mature IDE.

Yeah, it would be nice if there was one "obvious" IDE choice.  Anyone wanna 
bet on the day of the next post that asks why there aren't any good Python 
IDEs? ;)

> I'm kinda surprised about the negative press the stdlib has been
> getting as a result of AMK's blog entry. I still think stdlib is
> beautiful .

While one of the things I like most about Python is it's outstanding stdlib, I 
wouldn't say that it's beautiful.  There are some changes I'd like to see:

* Put the bisect, collections, heapq and Queue into a collections module (and 
remove sets module since sets are now builtin)
* Put glob, os, shutil and popen2 into an os module 
* Put getopt and optparse into an opt module (or remove getopt?)
* Put urllib and urllib2 into a urllib module

These happen to be the modules I use frequently, so the fact that they're not 
as well organized as I might like is more obvious to me than would be for 
other modules.  But I assume that others who use other modules have also seen 
similar trends.

Oh, and it would also be nice if all the modules followed the PEP 8 style 
guide for naming -- it would decrease the confusion about what exactly the 
suggested naming style *is*.  I know I was confused about this because of the 
stdlib until I found PEP 8.

Steve



From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct  1 09:31:42 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 01 Oct 2004 16:31:42 +0300
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<du71xgjpsay.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<z5nr98uuk2l4.ul5xbcv4hq6x.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <du7k6ua36pt.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Wolfgang" == Wolfgang Keller <wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de> writes:

    >> OPC is just DCOM,

    Wolfgang> Well, if it is sooo easy, why has noone done a freeware
    Wolfgang> twisted OPC module yet...? >;->

I didn't say it is easy, it just shouldn't be harder than, say, doing
it in C++ (even if you will find more example programs in C++).

    Wolfgang> To start with I "just" need to "emulate" an OPC server
    Wolfgang> to play around a little bit with a SCADA package, so
    Wolfgang> everything more than importing a module and
    Wolfgang> instantiating an OPC server class with a few lines is a
    Wolfgang> little bit over my head...

Well, I can say it's definitely not going to be that easy. You, too
will soon learn to apprecate how much OPC sucks ;-). I did implement
an OPC client library in my previous job (after which OPC was actually
quite usable), but it's proprietary.

    Wolfgang> (Could it be that I'm a little bit pampered by the vast
    Wolfgang> Python module collection available for other domains
    Wolfgang> than industrial automation...? >:->)

Probably. Industrial automation is not necessarily "interesting" if
you are not working there. Open industrial automation infrastructure
would be an extremely interesting avenue for academic research and
subsequent lucrative consulting, though...

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Oct 13 09:04:38 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:04:38 -0400
Subject: How to catch exceptions elegantly in this situation?
References: <e431ae34.0410071913.15954ed5@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.10.08.02.50.53.714563@jerf.org>
	<e431ae34.0410122224.25379264@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <mfSbBls/KHSD089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <e431ae34.0410122224.25379264 at posting.google.com>,
syed_saqib_ali at yahoo.com (Saqib Ali) wrote:
>Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.08.02.50.53.714563 at jerf.org>...
>> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:13:06 -0700, Saqib Ali wrote:
>>
>>
>> Can you give me more detail? What is the real problem?
>>
>
>
>Sure.
>The real issue is that I am doing some screen-scraping from on-line
>white pages (residential telephone directory).
>
>I have defined a bunch of regular expressions and myFunc() populates a
>dictionary corresponding to each result from the white pages.
>
>So essentially myDict corresponds to a single record found. See below
>
>myDict["fullName"] = fullNameRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
>myDict["telNum"] = telNumRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
>myDict["streetAddr"] = streetAddrRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
>myDict["city"] = cityRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
>myDict["state"] = stateRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
>myDict["zip"] = zipRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
>
>
>Sometimes one or more of these regexps fails to match. In which Case
>an exception will be raised. I want to catch the exception, print out
>a message..... but then keep on going to the next assignment
>statement.

I'd be tempted to try

    redict = {"fullname": fullNameRegExp,
              "telNum": telNumRegExp,
              "streetAddr": streetAddrRegExp,
              "city": cityRegExp,
              "state": stateRegExp,
              "zip": zipRegExp,
             }

    for x in redict:
        try:
            myDict[x] = redict[x].match (htmlText)[0]
        except whichever_error:
           pass



        Regards.        Mel.


From mmsmtp at noisylesec.fr  Thu Oct 14 04:37:07 2004
From: mmsmtp at noisylesec.fr (mmsmtp at noisylesec.fr)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:37:07 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Virus_trouv=E9_dans_le_message?=
Message-ID: <416E3AB3.000104.31548@smtp.noisylesec.fr>

Scanner: MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 

Problem description:
Email data:
MessageID: 
From: python-list at python.org
To: narima.azizi at noisylesec.fr
Cc: 
Subject: Re: Your product
Scanning part []

Scanning part [your_product.pif]
Attachment validity check: passed.
Virus identity found: W32/Netsky-D

Virus identity found: W32/Netsky-D







From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Wed Oct 13 10:42:28 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:42:28 -0400
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> Of course, we are now getting into corner cases that show how much are
> we pushing class  statements in Python. The _sane_ way to make it all
> work would be to have a hook to provide a user-defined dict to the
> class locals() dir; aternatively, the natice dict() could provide a
> ordered interface (but then it wouldn't be a simple hash mapping, a
> more complex structure such as a tree would be needed). Both are far
> from happening in Python 2.x, IMHO... and I really doubt if dicts will
> ever be changed to accomodate ordering, even in Python 3.0. Too much
> hassle for too little gain. A hook function seems to be more sensible.

I don't know.  I was thinking that maybe an ordereddict class would be 
useful, something like:

myDict = {'a': 4, 'b': 5 }  # normal dict
myDict = o{'a': 4, 'b': 5 }  # ordered dict, keeping order ['a', 'b']

The dictionary could only be use in specific cases, like configuration 
stuff or temporarily when instantiating a metaclass...  I don't know, 
maybe I'm just crazy...

Regards,
Nicolas


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Mon Oct  4 23:51:55 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:51:55 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <4162142c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162142c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <41621A5B.3010106@cloudthunder.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

>On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following 
>>support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*
>>    
>>
>
>Wow. Rude much?
>
>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>http://www.python.org/
>
>  
>
What does "Rude much" mean?


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 21 13:35:23 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:35:23 -0700
Subject: key argument for max?
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7AAF@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7AAF@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <20041021103121.0AB5.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote:
> [Steven Bethard]
> 
> #- I was wondering if there's any plans to add a "key" argument to max
> #- (and min) like was done for sort(ed)?  I fairly often run into a
> #- situation where I have something like:
> #- 
> #- counts = {}
> #- for item in iterable:
> #-     counts[item] = counts.get(item, 0) + 1
> #- _, max_item = max((count, item) for item, count in counts.items())
> #- 
> #- It would be nice to be able to write that last like like:
> #- 
> #- max(counts, key=counts.__getitem__)
> 
> Don't understand why you're doing that. I would do:
> 
> >>> lst = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'a', 'd', 'b', 'a']
> >>> counts = {}
> >>> for item in lst:
> 	counts[item] = counts.get(item, 0) + 1
> 
> >>> counts
> {'a': 3, 'c': 1, 'b': 2, 'd': 1}
> >>> max_item = max(counts.values())
> >>> max_item
> 3


You missed what he was asking for.  He doesn't care about 3, he cares
about the item that has the value of 3; 'a'.

I've done similar things to what Steven is doing now, though I am unsure
as to whether the key=getter mechanism should be used, or whether
something else is necessary.

 - Josiah



From keithn124 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 07:53:57 2004
From: keithn124 at yahoo.com (Keith)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 04:53:57 -0700
Subject: SELL this FBI NOC LIST and MAKE MILLIONS like TOM CRUISE did in
	MISSION IMPOSSIBLE
Message-ID: <885fab1b.0410250353.2f7a4050@posting.google.com>

If you have ENTREPRENEURIAL BENT OF MIND, then SKY IS THE LIMIT, you
can SELL this FBI agents' NOC LIST and MAKE MILLIONS of dollars like
Tom Cruise (Ethan) did in the movie MISSION IMPOSSIBLE.

Remember, NOBODY has to FOLLOW THE RULES since the SADISTIC FBI DID
NOT FOLLOW THE RULES

If your IQ is LESS THAN 100, you are kindly requested to ignore the
rest of this column and move on to the next post in the news group.

Please SAVE this post on your hard disks or email account and also
bookmark it because the FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS are gonna force the
websites to remove this posting for good. I ADDED a few more
undercover FBI agents to the NOC LIST and also a few more facts about
FBI.

I request all you HACKERS on usenet to HACK these undercover FBI
agents IP addresses and trace their REAL IDENTITIES and post the info
here.

I am NOT a conspiracy theorist and everything I mentioned here
actually happened to me and are ABSOLUTE FACTS.

I posted this to all active newsgroups around Sep 24th and the FBI
"ARM TWISTED" and "FORCED" google management to filter my posts
getting on the internet to STOP me from EXPOSING the EVIL FACE, the
SADISM, PERVERSION of FBI and their SEXUAL ABUSE and VIOLATED my
FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

I again posted it around Oct 10th to all "active newsgroups" and
GOOGLE MANAGEMENT this time told the FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS to GO
FUCK THEMSELVES and let me EXERCISE my FREEDOM OF SPEECH on the
internet.

HAIL GOOGLE MANAGEMENT Sergey Brin and Larry Page who stands for and
supports the POWERLESS common man on the street and FREEDOM OF SPEECH
against the SADISTIC, PERVERTED, DICTATORIAL FBI unlike the YAHOO
MANAGEMENT "PUSSIES" who SUCKED UP to the SADISTIC FBI  and CHANGED MY
PASSWORD (due to FBI "coercion") of my email id vickyg456 at yahoo.com 
which I used in my previous posts on Oct 10th to receive emails from
newsgroup readers. So I no longer have access to this email id
vickyg456 at yahoo.com.

To all of the 95% low IQ morons on usenet who accused me of schizo
paranoia and looking for attention and asked me why I was cross
posting to irrelevant newsgroups: Here is my answer.

1)  I WANT ALL OF YOU to FOCUS on the FBI SADISM, PERVERSION, SEXUAL
ABUSE and their BLATANT violation of human rights of an ordinary US
citizen.

2) I want all of you to STAND UP and ask the EVIL, PERVERTED and
SADISTIC FBI why they have to install video devices and watch me in my
rest room, bedroom, living room and kitchen and PSYCHO-ANALYSE me 24X7
for three years and TORTURE, TERRORIZE, HUMILIATE and DEHUMANIZE me.

3) I am posting to this to all active newsgroups to EXPOSE the
"INSTITUTIONALIZED FBI SADISM, PERVERSION and their SEXUAL ABUSE of
ordinary US citizens.

4) FBI SADISTS, PERVERTS and TERRORISTS are LAUGHING their asses off
reading you clowns' comments in response to my post on usenet because
all you 95% "PROGRAMMED SLAVES"  BEHAVED exactly the way the FBI
SADISTS "PROGRAMMED" your minds.

5) There are very few intelligent guys who responded to my post and
one of them is "bookwyrm" who figured why I was posting this to all
active newsgroups and another by anonymous name "assassians"  and
another by the name "Anatid" who tried to really help me.

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=c54f0abe.0410100848.a515cf7%40posting.google.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3DFBI%2BSADISM%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dalt.security.alarms

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=415af813%40news.bnb-lp.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3DFBI%2BSADISM%2Bbookwyrm%26meta%3D

SADISTIC and PERVERTED FBI has beeen MENTALLTY TORTURING, TERRORIZING
and SEXUALLY ABUSING me and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights
non-stop for three years.

Undercover FBI agents will attack me, ridicule me and discredit me
with fictitious userids in response to this post and I request all
readers to completely IGNORE those MANIPULATIVE, LYING FBI perverts,
sadists and thugs.

Please forward and distribute this to as many senators, congressmen,
journalists, editors, civil rights attorneys, civil rights activists,
investigative reporters, radio talk show hosts,  managers, co-workers,
family and friends and all Americans concerned with civil liberties.

I am not a muslim, I don't have even a single muslim friend, I am not
a member of any religious organization, I am not a drug smuggler, I do
not belong to any crime mafia, I did not kill anybody, I am not a spy
and I never ever worked for any government and not even "remotely
connected" to any government agency whatsoever, I do not have any
prior criminal record, I am a US citizen and have been living in US
for a little more than 15 yrs and I graduated with a masters degree in
computer science from a US university more than a decade ago. I am
even willing to take "ANY NO.OF POLYGRAPH TESTS" to prove whatever I
said is true and a fact, about my background.

FBI has been MENTALLY TORTURING me with 24X7 surveillance for the last
three years inside and outside my apartment with video surveillance
devices and motion sensors around my apartment, my phone has been
tapped, my web surfing is being monitored all the time for the last
three years, my emails are being monitored, gps vehicle tracking
devices and voice amplification devices have been placed in my car and
undercover FBI agents have followed me to restaurants, grocery stores,
malls, movie theatres, banks and even barber shops etc and forced me
to live like an animal and a virtual prisoner for three years. FBI has
interfered in my personal life for no reason and jeopardized my job
opportunities. FBI is obsessed with me and has ruined, destroyed and
wrecked my life for the last three years and destroyed my physical and
mental health.

The SADISTIC FBI agents are NOT charging me, NOT letting me find a
job, NOT letting me have a normal life, NOT letting me have even an
IOTA of PRIVACY and mentally TORTURING and TERRORIZING me with 24X7
surveillance, making 2000 UNSOLICITED phone calls to my unlisted
phone#s, entering my apartment ILLEGALLY and STEALING personal
belongings when I am not home, watching me real time live with video
surveillance devices installed in my bedroom, living room, kitchen and
DISGUSTINGLY even in my rest room and humiliating and dehumanizing me
and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights and constitutional right to
privacy and ABUSING the "DRACONIAN" PATRIOT ACT.

The PERVERTED FBI "ILLEGALLY" installed tens of audio and video
surveillance devices in my apartment, watching me NAKED, REAL TIME
LIVE 24X7 even in my rest room taking shower, psychoanalyzing each and
every move, each and every word I said, each and every second of my
life, each and every blink of my eyes and each and every comment I
posted on the web.

Is there a LIMIT to FBI Sadism and Perversion ??
 
If you want to contact me, please send me email at
keithm757A at nothotmail.com by removing the letter "A" and the word
"not" from the email id and cc it to keithm757 at volcanomail.com. But I
am not sure how long I will have access to these email ids before the
"DICTATORIAL FBI COERCES" the websites to change my password WITHOUT
my authorization.

I spoke to at least 200 attorneys in both Michigan and Georgia for
legal help but only about two or three attorneys were willing to help
me but asked me to show physical proof of either gps or video
surveillance devices. I did a lot of research and found a couple of
private investigators (who were ex-FBI agents) more importantly who
are knowledgeable about the latest "counter surveillance technologies"
 but they also DECLINED to help me on ONE PRETEXT or the OTHER even
though I was willing to pay for their services.
 
I told these two very HIGHLY QUALIFIED and KNOWLEDGEABLE private
investigators Niles (Eagle services 866-691-7985) and another PI,
Charles Middlestadt (404-252-5322) of ISC Worldwide Inc in the Atlanta
area who are capable of finding the gps vehicle tracking devices in my
car, that I am NOT A MUSLIM and they have NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT ME
and even offered them to go through my attorney and help me but still
THEY DECLINED to help me OUT OF FEAR that I might be a muslim.

Another Private Investigator by the name John Weeks of Investigative
Solutions www.invsol.com in Atlanta told me that it would be
IMPOSSIBLE to find out these video, audio and gps surveillance devices
if the GOVERNMENT (FBI) is doing it.
 
And eventually I was forced to spend a $1000 as fees out of sheer
desperation knowing fully well that the Private Investigator I hired
has at best AVERAGE counter surveillance skills to sweep my car for
gps vehicle tracking devices and he did a LOUSY JOB and found nothing,
as I expected.

One attorney in Michigan CHEATED me for a thousand dollars and didn't
do diddly squat and another attorney made me spend a couple of
thousand dollars more, again for nothing.

Some attorneys I consulted told me in very CLEAR TERMS that FBI agents
LIE, MANIPULATE, CHEAT and are VERY UNETHICAL in their MEANS and
METHODS. The attorneys also told me that in order for me to file a
civil lawsuit against the FBI, I have to PROVE the existence of
surveillance devices and also the MENTAL TORTURE, the SEXUAL ABUSE and
TERRORISM which will be quite a tall order for me to do without the
help of willing attorneys and helpful private investigators and EVEN
THEN the FBI sadists would have removed all those surveillance devices
by the time the private investigators came to sweep my apartment for
those devices after a couple of days since the FBI is listening to
each and every goddamn word that came out of my mouth whether it be in
my apartment or when I was speaking to these PI's and attorneys from
pay phones or cell phones.

You can investigate these undercover FBI agents yourself and find out
the truth. Remember, some times vehicles are registered in parents or
spouses names and also FBI uses fictitious front companies to employ
their undercover agents.

If any of you think, all these things are my paranoid delusions, I
CHALLENGE you to send an email to undercover FBI agent Frank Spodek
(sfrank9 at aol.com) OR call Kathleen Sue Taylor OR Maddelina Wahl OR
Mediha Krijestorac or Janet Lorna Brown or the other FBI agents I
listed at their phone numbers and confirm it with those FBI PERVERTED
SADISTS themselves.

Undercover FBI agents who followed me (parial list)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

313-354-7380         Internal unlisted FBI# in Detroit office from
which FBI agents called
                            and harassed me at home in 2001. I
wouldn't have possibly known
                            that this is an internal unlisted FBI#
unless they called me.

BOGEY 27 (MI)     Registered to Maddelina C Wahl,  28087 Hickory Dr,
Farmington.Hills MI 38331, ph: 248-324-1527, Caucasian Female, black
car, Charter One bank, 3:00 pm, 12/20/03

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 30 yr old Caucasian
Female to Charter One bank on W.12 Mile Road, Farmington Hills, MI in
veh plate # BOGEY 27, ph:248-324-1527

PPL 587  (MI)     Registered to Kathleen Sue Taylor, African American
female, 29390 Bermuda Ln,Southfield, MI 48034, ph: 248-356-1946.

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 27yr old African
American female in MI veh plate# PPL 587 in July 2002  in a CVS
Pharmacy on W.12 Mile Rd, Southfield,  MI

XRA 155 (MI)     Registered to Mediha Krijestorac, Black car, 30408
Shiawasee Rd, Farmington MI 48336, ph:248-477-9161,  White Male,
Restaurant, 9:00pm, 12/12/03

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 20-22 yr old Caucasian
Male in veh plate # XRA 155 to a restaurant on Grand River Ave in
Farmington Hills,  MI at 9:00 pm on 12/12/03.

UFX 210 (MI)     Registered to Kevin Miller, White SUV,  5871 Seneca
St, Detroit, 48213, July 2002, 313-571-1095 #disconnected.

This undercover FBI agent followed me in the summer of 2002.

5915CR   (MI)    Registered to Kenneth Allen, Red pickup truck, 18440
Alta Vista Dr, Southfield MI 48075 in Dec 2002.
 
This FBI undercover agent followed me in a red pickup truck in an
apartment complex was a 27-33 yr old Caucasian male in veh plate# 5915
CR in Dec 2002.

0978 JD  (MI)   Registered to Janet Lorna Brown, White Chevy, 20978
Delaware St, Southfield MI 48034 in 2002, ph# 248-350-2599

This FBI agent followed me in a white chevy once on Telegraph road on
3/14/02 and on a different occasion on 8 Mile Rd on 4/4/02 when I went
for an oil change.

8CK U33 (MI)    Registered to Doris Evelyn Person, 3611 S.Annabelle
St, Detroit 48217, 313-388-5186

The African American female undercover FBI agent who followed me in MI
veh plate# 8CK U33 was about 20 yrs old and might be a daughter of the
female owner of this car and this happened in early Fall of 2002.

073 D1U (MI)    Registered to Scott Alan Smith, 7536 Gary St, Westland
MI 48185

This 25 yr old caucasian male undercover FBI agent about 25 yrs old
followed me near my apartment in the fall of 2002. phone# 734-261-1587
in 2002 (Disconnected)

LQE 620 (MI)    SUV, Registered to Samuel Pilato, 40460 Cove ct,
Plymouth, MI 40460
                       Ph#  734-420-0521, 3/14/02 11:30AM

This caucasian undercover FBI agent about 35yrs old followed me to a
library in the spring of 2002 on Telegraph Rd, Southfield, MI

EBAY      Ebay Id: SpodekModek, sfrank9 at aol.com --> email Id of Frank
Spodek - Undercover FBI Agent who monitored my Websurfing activities.

You can do a quick investigative test by emailing to sfrank9 at aol.com
and asking Frank if he is an undercover FBI agent and I am absolutely
positive he WONT respond and DENY he is an FBI agent because then it
will be a LIE. With this test you can conclude Frank Spodek is indeed
an undercover FBI agent.

EBAY            Ebay Id: cbsan,  cidneybetz at aol.com, email Id of
Cidney Betz - Undercover FBI agent who monitored my websurfing
activities in 2002.

Possible old phone numbers of Cidney Betz: 407-370-3043 or
352-291-2112 in the year 2002.

351 FTK (GA)    Maroon Car, 7/28/04, 6:00 pm, 20ish Caucasian Male and
Female, Metro Atlanta

131 YBP (GA)    35 yr old Caucasian Male, Silver colored car, 7/22/04,
10:45 pm, Hotel, Metro Atlanta

APZ 7647 (GA)   35 yr old Caucasian Male, Truck, 5/25/04, 3:00pm,
Ridgeview Hospital, Atlanta

YUU 243 (GA)    Pickup truck, Caucasian male, 8/25/04, 4:40pm,
Holcrombe Bridge Rd, Altanta

AQG 2185 (GA)   27 yr old Caucasian Female, Red Cherokee, 5/21/04, 11
AM, Pep Boys, Cobb Parkway

WPS 578 (GA)    SUV, One Caucasian Male and one female, 3/8/04,
8:30pm, Apartment Complex

Coipel               770-577-0526 (5/2/04, 5:29pm), 4337 Lodgeview pl,
Douglasville, GA
                        30315. undercover FBI agent in metro Altanta
area.

Ronnie Hill         678-755-2034, Possibly an FBI agent 

Please allow three years plus or minus to the ages of the undercover
FBI agents I mentioned here.

2/29/04        Undercover FBI agent with a fictitious name "Agent
Johnson" and IP address 81.132.210.89 said on internet that they are
using me as a training target and have got a bet on as to when I'll do
something really stupid and also they are taking bets on what it will
be in alt.astrology Usenet newsgroup on 2/29/04. This FBI agent from
Michigan field office might have posted it anonymously and hence the
IP address might be a fake one. Url for Agent Johnson's post follows.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=c1u06b%24780%241%40titan.btinternet.com&rnum=19
                                
3/21/04        Undercover FBI agent by some fictitious internet name
"THOR" and email Id: funk_a_del_ic2000 at yahoo.com and IP address
24.94.125.55 in the Washington DC area monitored my web surfing
activities and posted on rec.sport.cricket Usenet news group.

10/6/04        Leonard (Undercover FBI agent monitoring my websurfing
activities) posted
                   in rec.audio.car newsgroup

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=263696fd.0410060414.319fd404%40posting.google.com

10/15/04      Els (Undercover FBI agent "Els" monitoring my websurfing
activities)
                   posted in alt.test newsgroup

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=416fff7f%240%2444105%245fc3050%40dreader2.news.tiscali.nl&output=gplain

 
10/10/04        J NIcklebaker (Undercover FBI agent monitoring my
websurfing activities)
                     posted in alt.liberalminded newsgroup 

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=8boim0p7tpeo9p991segp7o7bd4h7ov32s%404ax.com&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3DNicklebaker%26meta%3D

I am absolutely confident all the above mentioned people are
undercover FBI agents GUARANTEED. You can investigate them yourself
and find out the truth.

I request all you HACKERS on usenet to HACK these undercover FBI
agents' IP addresses and trace their real REAL IDENTITIES and post the
info here.

FBI who is supposed to catch terrorists are WASTING humongous amount
of tax payers money to ruin, wreck and destroy ordinary peoples lives
and are MORE INTERESTED and spent three years to tell me how SMART and
INFINITELY POWERFUL they are compared to me.

FBI has even been eavesdropping, monitoring and recording my
conversations with attorneys from pay phones when I was looking to
hire an attorney to get help with this FBIs harassment,
dehumanization, humiliation and mental torture.

FBI agents have been entering my apartment regularly and torturing me
by doing whatever they want because they know I am taking medication
that puts me to sleep and I won't wake up until the next morning until
the drug effect goes away.

FBI has forced Google or used some technology at their disposal to
cancel some of my comments from getting posted on INTERNET newsgroups
misc.legal, trial.misc.legal from a library in Farmington Hills, MI
and denied and VIOLATED my right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH in 11/03 or
12/03.

I moved in with another person (who advertised on a website for a room
mate) on 5/24/04 and I went out in his car on the night of 5/25/04 and
the next morning 5/26/04, at 9:30am the SADISTIC FBI called me and
made this phone# 678-560-1322 and the caller name "LOOKING FOR YOU"
appear on my caller id to tell me, "Oh we were LOOKING for you last
night, we did not know where you were because you went out in your
room mates car". The sadistic and perverted FBI "ILLEGALLY" installed
gps vehicle tracking devices in my room mates car the next day to
TRACK ME, even though my room mate has nothing to do with me and we
were complete strangers until the previous day.

The same day on 5/26/04 evening, I went out in my car and came back
around 7:45 pm, parked my car in the parking lot and on the way I said
"nice car" to my neighbor who was cleaning his car, to which he
replied "thanks". Within a few minutes at 8:44 pm, the SADISTIC FBI
called and made phone# 770-690-8489 with caller name "NEIGHBOR
OUTREACH" appear on my caller id to tell me, "Oh we saw and heard what
you said to your neighbor in the parking lot". The FBI was able to see
and hear me because they installed VIDEO and AUDIO surveillance
devices around my apartment. to figure out FBI and their operations.

When I went to Best Buy in Feb 2002 to buy a cell phone, two caucasian
FBI agents (possibly husband and wife) followed me into the store and
observed me from a very close range and sent me a marketing fax for
cell phones to my UNLISTED phone# THAT SAME EVENING to tell me that
the SADISTIC FBI were WATCHING ME even in retail stores.

FBI agents have terrorized me by calling my current unlisted phone#
atleast 200 times in a month and a half in July and August 2004,
intentionally asking for Roberto Fernandez (last name changed),
knowing fully well that nobody by the name Roberto Fernandez lived in
my apartment.

I called undercover FBI agent, Kathleen Sue Taylor on 4/1/04 and told
her I do not want to receive any HARASSING UNSOLICITED phone calls
from the FBI and from next day onwards, the FBI had made my unlisted
phone# appear on caller id of ordinary american people multiple # of
times, where the owners of those phone#s listed below got upset and
called me and left abusive messages in my answering machine.

The owners of these phone numbers listed below called and asked me why
I was calling them repeatedly, even though I DON'T KNOW who they are
and I NEVER called them even once.
   703-580-8992         4/2/04     Dale City, VA
   540-309-1226         4/3/04     Roanoke VA
   434-525-1448         4/3/04     Lynchburg, VA
   757-404-1076         4/4/04     Harry Folsom left me an abusive
message
   703-820-6695         4/4/04     DC Suburb, VA 
   770-966-5236         4/4/04     Cooper P D, Woman left me an
abusive message
   757-483-0583         4/7/04     Norfolk, VA
   540-463-7459         4/7/04     Lexington VA
   770-253-6297         4/8/04     Hammond Stinson
   703-541-0950         4/9/04     DC Suburb, VA

FBI pretended to be me and made all these phone calls themselves from
the FBI head office in Washington DC to those ordinary Americans and
made my unlisted phone# appear on their phone caller ids, as if I am
calling them.

Please speak to, ADVISE and ENCOURAGE these people above to file
lawsuits against the US government and FBI for violating their privacy
and for phone harassment.

(If you are RICH, you can use a PRIVATE EYE to get the phone call
lists of these numbers above and find a COMMON PHONE# among the lists
on the SPECIFIC DAYS mentioned above to zero in on the common unlisted
phone#)

FBI agents have destroyed my livelihood by assasinating my character
with potential employers by making anonymous calls to them when I sent
resumes since FBI is privy to all the email addresses and phone
numbers of the recruiters and potential employers. I do NOT think this
is an EXCEPTION and imagine how many ordinary Americans have been
suffering this "FBI SADISM for years" without knowing it.

Once a Caucasian male FBI agent in a Comcast van threatened to ram
into my car from behind and came within half an inch of hitting me
from behind even though there was no traffic altercation between us on
a city street in Southfield in Feb 2002.

Two FBI agents once shouted at me and abused me verbally in a Sports
Authority store parking lot approximately around Feb 2002 in Livonia,
MI.

FBI ILLEGALLY stole passwords of all my email and internet accounts
with the help of bugs installed on my computer.

FBI agents have followed me even when I went to see a doctor. There
was one Caucasian FBI agent in a white truck with GA license plate APZ
7647 on 5/24/04, waiting for me in a truck in Ridgeview hospital
parking lot listening to the conversation I was having with the
doctor, using voice amplification devices.

I am currently living in a two bedroom apartment  sharing it with
another person and the FBI sadists made anonymous calls to the
apartment management office with fictitious complaints and tried to
get me evicted from the apartment in July 2004.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home in May
2004, stole a "yellow highlighter" and after I moved to a different
Atlanta suburbs a month later entered my apartment again when I was
not home and placed the "yellow highlighter" on the carpet in the
middle of my bedroom by the time I came back from watching Fahrenheit
9/11 movie on 6/27/04. The FBI knew that I went to watch Fahrenheit
9/11 movie on 6/27/04 because they were watching me looking for
directions and movie times on the internet and also with the help of
gps vehicle tracking devices in my car.

I spoke to an attorney from a pay phone on 6/24/04 and during the
conversation I asked the attorney if we can get a court order to force
the Internet Service Provider to reveal if my internet web surfing is
being monitored by the FBI and lo and behold my internet account
MYSTERIOUSLY DISAPPEARED from the ISP computers on 6/25/04. On inquiry
my ISP told me somebody called and cancelled my internet account the
previous day, which I never did.

My room mate goes to work around 6 AM and on the night of 7/23/04 I
pasted a 8.5 X 11 page note on the inside of the apartment entrance
door for my room mate to wake me up when he leaves so I can bolt the
hotel lock from inside and go back to sleep. My room mate woke me up
like I requested and I bolted the hotel lock from inside of my
apartment and went back to sleep at 6 AM on the morning of 7/24/04.
The sadistic FBI agents STILL ENTERED my second floor apartment while
I was asleep between 6:00 AM and 10:00 AM on 7/24/04 and REMOVED the
8.5X11 inch page pasted note on the inside of entrance door and LEFT
IT on the ENTERTAINMENT CENTER in the living room just to TORTURE ME
mentally and TERRORIZE me ?e entered your apartment even when you
locked the hotel lock bolt and did this, but what can you do ??

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on the night of 8/1/04 when
I was asleep and stole prepaid calling card pin numbers from my
trouser pockets. One of the prepaid calling cards in my trouser pocket
was called "I Conexion" and the FBI next day called me on 8/2/04 and
made the number 770-242-8775 with caller name "Internet Conexion"
appear on my caller id to TERRORIZE me, that they entered my apartment
the previous night and stole the prepaid calling numbers from my
trouser pocket. The phone# above is NOT an FBI# but some other
company.

To protect myself from these SADISTIC FBI agents entering into my
apartment and stealing things when I am asleep, I locked my bedroom
door from the inside and put a small heavy box and a 19 inch TV on top
of the box against the bed room door on the night of 8/7/04 so if the
FBI agents try to open my bedroom door, the TV will fall off the box
at the slightest movement of the door, make a big sound and wake me
up. On the morning of 8/8/04 around 9:00 AM I woke up to a giant
thudding sound of the TV falling on the floor from the box and FBI
agents speeding away by the time I realized what happened. FBI agents
entered my apartment and opened my locked bedroom and pushed the door
at 9:00 AM so hard, they pushed the box a good two feet away from the
door. The FBI SADISTS are even willing to break my 19 inch TV to
TORTURE and TERRORIZE me.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY CHANGED three passwords (even though I used
Kinkos to keep my PASSWORDS PRIVATE) of my three email ids that I was
using to send this document to investigative reporters between 8/26/04
and 8/28/04 to "PREVENT ME" from EXPOSING their SADISM, PERVERSION,
TERRORISM, SEXUAL ABUSE and MENTAL TORTURE, by either ILLEGALLY
installing key logging software on kinkos computers or by some other
ILLEGAL MEANS unknown to me. So I created brand new email ids and sent
this document and god knows when the SADISTIC FBI will change the
passwords of my NEW email ids.

To escape this FBI sadism, I went and slept in an acquaintance's
apartment in the first week of September 2004 and the SADISTIC FBI
agents still came and entered that apartment, installed video
surveillance devices in the acquaintance's apartment and drew a curvy
line with a knife on the black colored apartment door of the
acquaintance to TERRORIZE me.

FBI has entered my unlisted phone#s in all marketing and fax databases
and sent me faxes in the middle of the night. FBI sent me on the
average two to three marketing calls and faxes everyday for 3 years to
my unlisted numbers totaling at least 2000 unsolicited calls in the
last 3 years.

To all of you who are gonna advise me to wear tinfoil or take drugs
for schizophrenic paranoia, the SADISTIC FBI wants all of you to think
exactly that way so they can CONTINUE to carry on their PERVERSE
SADISM on ordinary american citizens and MISDIRECT and PROGRAM all of
the 290 mil american brains to treat the EVIL, SADISTIC, PERVERTED and
DICTATORIAL FBI like Gods.

By now, you should have figured out the gist of what and how the FBI
SADISTS and PERVERTS are TORTURING, TERRORIZING and SEXUALLY ABUSING
me with their INFINITE POWER. You can read the rest of FBI sadism
below if you have time.


*************************************************************************************

I rented a car on 7/14/04, bought a cell phone and stayed in a hotel
that night and by next morning 7/15/04, the FBI has figured out where
I was staying and wire tapped my cell phone and tracked me by placing 
gps vehicle tracking devices even in the rental car.

FBI agents ILLGEALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
7/16/04 and LOCKED the bathroom door from inside, by the time I came
back in the evening.
FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home between
7/15/04 and 7/18/04 and logged on to my computer and REMOVED a stock
list from my Yahoo account.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
7/18/04 in the morning and turned the Air Conditioner "ON"
intentionally by the time I came back to TORTURE me.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 7/18/04 when I was not
home and placed a razor blade and a nickel (which they STOLE from my
apartment in Marietta in May 2004) and put it in a plastic bag to
TAUNT ME  to say WHAT CAN YOU DO ?
 
FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment in the early hours of
7/22/04 (while I was still sleeping in bed) and opened a tote bag I
kept next to the pillow and unzipped a small bag (zip which I closed
the previous night) inside, just to  TERRORIZE ME as if to say, we can
and will do anything to you and you can't do anything to us because we
FBI are GODS.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
7/22/04 during the day time and placed the TV remote this time hanging
on the edge of the bed to TERRORIZE me that they entered my apartment.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment sometimes when I was not
home, pretending to be Wall Street Journal delivery personnel and
delivered sometimes MUTIPLE copies of the paper on the same day and
also sometimes delivered multiple Chinese restaurant take out
brochures.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home in the
evening on 7/24/04 and again opened the tote bag and unzipped a small
bag which is inside the tote bag and also STOLE a one time use Kodak
camera from my bedroom which I bought on 7/23/04 in Wal Mart.

FBI agents have REGULARLY entered my apartment ILLEGALLY with laptops
when I was not home and copied information from my computer and floppy
disks and messed them up.

Sadistic FBI agents called me at least 30 times repeatedly in the
space of an hour and a half between 7:00 and 8:30 pm on 7/27/04 and
asked for Roberto Fernandez knowing fully well that nobody by that
name lived in my apartment and infact said "You are so funny" and made
WEIRD SOUNDS like aye, uye, ick, ihe etc while watching me real time
live all the time with the video surveillance devices installed in the
ceiling of my bedroom when I answered the phone.
 
FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was asleep on 8/2/04
night even though the hotel lock was  bolted from inside, and placed
the tv remote face down on the end table of my bedroom, folded a
prepaid calling card in my trouser pocket and formed a crease on the
card, removed a library map from the file folder (which was inside a
tote bag) and placed it outside the file folder and unzipped the back
pocket of the tote bag half way down and left it there to torture me.

FBI agents have been alerting the security departments of WalMart,
Best Buy, JC Penney stores etc with fictitious complaints when I went
there for shopping, so the security cameras in those stores are
constantly focused on me and watching me while I was in those stores.

I rented a car on 8/5/04 and stayed in a hotel to get some privacy and
the sadistic FBI agents still tracked me down that night and left the
rental car doors unlocked by next morning on 8/6/04.

I changed the car rented the previous day on 8/6/04 and traveled a
couple of hours on a highway, took an exit, parked my car in a strip
mall parking lot and spent about 20 minutes in a retail store and by
the time I got back to the car, FBI agents followed me and put two
quarters on a plastic bag containing donuts in the back seat of the
car just to taunt and terrorize me they are still following me even
when I rented a car and drove out of the city.

FBI agents STOLE a pilot pen pack (which I bought from CVS Pharmacy on
8/8/04) from my car on the night of 8/8/04 and entered my apartment on
8/9/04 when I was not home from 11 AM - 12 noon and placed the pilot
pen pack under a chair on the carpet in the living room to torture me.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 8/10/04 between 1:00pm
and 1:15 pm (just 15 min) when I went to Publix and turned the TV "On"
in my bedroom by the time I came back to mentally torture me.

SADISTIC FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was taking
shower on 8/12/04 around 1:00pm and removed a shaving set scissors
from the tote bag pocket in my bedroom and placed it on the iron board
in my bedroom. FBI was able to execute this operation because they
were watching me taking shower "real time live" with video devices
installed in my "bathroom".

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment even when the hotel lock was
bolted from inside in the early hours of 8/16/04 while I was asleep
and removed the middle row donuts in a 12 pack krispy kreme donut box
in the refrigerator and placed them in the empty left row and placed
the concord grape jelly bottle horizontally in the refrigerator and
unplugged the tv cable from the cable outlet in my bedroom to TORTURE
me that they are still entering my apartment anytime they want at
their will.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was asleep in the
early hours of 8/20/04 even when I put a coffee  table against the
apartment entrance door and a small heavy box and a 19in TV against my
bedroom door from the inside and searched the locked tote bag and
unzipped the back pocket of the tote bag half way down and left it
there to TERRORIZE ME that they are still entering my apartment no
matter what precautions I take.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 8/22/04 around 7:30pm
while I was taking a nap and turned the Air Conditioner "ON" to TAUNT
me that they were entering my apartment EVEN WHEN I WAS still in my
apartment.

FBI agents stole a Gillette disposable razor on the night of 8/25/04
from my duffel bag and placed it between the drivers seat and driver
side door near the trunk opening lever of my car.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY opened the rental car I rented, in a hotel
premises on the night of 8/27/04 and removed the cup holder and placed
it infront of the parking brake of the car to HARASS ME that they are
still following me even when I rented a car and stayed in a hotel.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY even tapped MetroPCS cell phone numbers
instantaneously as soon as I bought them on the same day.
 
SADISTIC FBI agents AMUSED themselves by turning my bedroom table lamp
in my bedroom, ON and OFF by using remote control devices, sometimes
while I was browsing the web.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered the hotel rooms even when locked from
inside where I stayed in August and September and installed video
surveillance devices and moved things around from the tote bag? zipped
side pocket into the tote bag to TERRORIZE me that they will INVADE my
privacy and MENTALLY TORTURE me even when I slept in hotel rooms.

Sometimes when I spoke to my roommate in non-English language, the
psycho-analysis OBSESSED SADISTIC FBI agents called me on the phone
immediately and said "komo-isthaaaa" in a SARCASTIC way and asked for
Roberto Fernandez knowing fully well that nobody by that name lived in
my apartment.

Sadistic FBI agents "reacted" to EACH and EVERY word that came out of
my mouth for the last three years by making 2000 UNSOLICITED HARASSING
phone calls at my unlisted private phone numbers.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 15 08:41:44 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:41:44 +0200
Subject: importing over network
References: <ckod02$lk9$1@planja.arnes.si>
Message-ID: <ckogi1$rp$02$2@news.t-online.com>

The second later, I found this:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/305277

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From bartekgorny at interia.pl  Wed Oct 13 05:37:10 2004
From: bartekgorny at interia.pl (Taki Jeden)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:37:10 +0200
Subject: [twisted+wxPython] widgets do not work?
References: <mailman.4771.1097612349.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckit3k$q85$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

exarkun at divmod.com wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:58:38 +0200, Taki Jeden <bartekgorny at interia.pl>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>> 
>> Anybody used wxPython with twisted?
>> 
>> I started putting together a Twisted-based app with wx GUI, and the
>> widgets just don't work - some controls do not show up etc. - at least on
>> my system.
>> 
>> For example, if I just take the wxdemo.py shipped with Twisted, and add
>> to it a static text, it doesn't show - while if I change
>>         reactor.registerWxApp(app)
>>         reactor.run(0)
>> into
>>         app.MainLoop(0)
>> the text is there. What the heck is wrong with this? Or am I doing
>> something wrong? Does the same work at yours?
>> 
>> Bartek
>> 
> 
>   There are several known problems with Twisted/wxPython integration, but
>   this doesn't sound like one of them.  Could you include your modified
>   wxdemo.py?

Yes, sure - here it is. In two versions - one is the same wxdemo with a
statictext added, the other is still the same but app.MainLoop instead of
the reactor. The second one works, the first does not.

Version 1:

from wxPython.wx import *

from twisted.internet import wxreactor
wxreactor.install()
from twisted.internet import reactor

# set up so that "hello, world" is printed once a second
def helloWorld():
    print "hello, world"
    reactor.callLater(1, helloWorld)
reactor.callLater(1, helloWorld)

def twoSecondsPassed():
    print "two seconds passed"

reactor.callLater(2, twoSecondsPassed)

ID_EXIT  = 101

class MyFrame(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, parent, ID, title):
        wxFrame.__init__(self, parent, ID, title, wxDefaultPosition,
wxSize(300, 200))
        menu = wxMenu()
        menu.Append(ID_EXIT, "E&xit", "Terminate the program")
        menuBar = wxMenuBar()
        menuBar.Append(menu, "&File");
        self.x=wxStaticText(self,-1,'dupadupa')
        self.SetMenuBar(menuBar)
        EVT_MENU(self, ID_EXIT,  self.DoExit)

    def DoExit(self, event):
        self.Close(true)
        reactor.stop()

class MyApp(wxApp):

    def OnInit(self):
        frame = MyFrame(NULL, -1, "Hello, world")
        frame.Show(true)
        self.SetTopWindow(frame)
        return true

def demo():
    app = MyApp(0)
    reactor.registerWxApp(app)
    reactor.run(0)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    demo()


Version 2:


from wxPython.wx import *

from twisted.internet import wxreactor
wxreactor.install()
from twisted.internet import reactor

# set up so that "hello, world" is printed once a second
def helloWorld():
    print "hello, world"
    #reactor.callLater(1, helloWorld)
#reactor.callLater(1, helloWorld)

def twoSecondsPassed():
    print "two seconds passed"

#reactor.callLater(2, twoSecondsPassed)

ID_EXIT  = 101

class MyFrame(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, parent, ID, title):
        wxFrame.__init__(self, parent, ID, title, wxDefaultPosition,
wxSize(300, 200))
        menu = wxMenu()
        menu.Append(ID_EXIT, "E&xit", "Terminate the program")
        menuBar = wxMenuBar()
        menuBar.Append(menu, "&File");
        self.x=wxStaticText(self,-1,'dupadupa')
        self.SetMenuBar(menuBar)
        EVT_MENU(self, ID_EXIT,  self.DoExit)

    def DoExit(self, event):
        self.Close(true)
        reactor.stop()

class MyApp(wxApp):

    def OnInit(self):
        frame = MyFrame(NULL, -1, "Hello, world")
        frame.Show(true)
        self.SetTopWindow(frame)
        return true

def demo():
    app = MyApp(0)
    app.MainLoop()
    #reactor.registerWxApp(app)
    #reactor.run(0)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    demo()


-- 
#!/usr/bin/env python
print 'sygnatura'


From gk_2345 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 15 17:57:16 2004
From: gk_2345 at yahoo.com (George Kinney)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:57:16 -0400
Subject: Artifical Life - a job for someone else
References: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10n2k37m9tkmqe5@corp.supernews.com>


"Michael Foord" <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0 at posting.google.com...
> I really miss a decent Cellular Automota program and I was really
> surprised that there weren't lot's of implementations for python.
>
> I've seen 'cage' around, but this uses curses so doesn't work on
> windoze :-( *Someone* should do a decent Tkinter version of life !!
> Great fun. Unfortunately it won't be me as I've got too many projects
> on at the moment....
>

Well, this has zip to do with python, but I've really enjoyed playing with
it:
http://psoup.math.wisc.edu/Life32.html







From mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 24 15:08:09 2004
From: mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (StvB)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:08:09 GMT
Subject: Passing an event handler through a list
References: <xDQed.18197$nj.5597@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<mailman.5389.1098637059.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t4Ted.18246$nj.11726@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

Thanks, I just thought that asterisk had to come in somewhere in the code. 




From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 01:09:03 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 22:09:03 -0700
Subject: Recursive function to develop permutations
References: <RiZcd.840$5i5.671@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<1glxc40.1kfx0apgrp3u3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<nnFdd.2986$5i5.1800@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<1glzzdm.ye96kj1q3oesdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0410212109.778cdb00@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
> 
> def permute(Xs, N):
>     if N > 0:
>         for x in Xs:
>             for sub in permute(Xs, N-1):
>                 yield [x]+sub
>     else:
>         yield []
> 
> If you do choose an if/else it seems to me things are more readable when
> you arrange them this way (rather than with if N<=0, so the for in the
> else).  Matter of tastes, of course.

For an unreadable voodoo version, here is a one-liner:

permute = lambda Xs, N: reduce(lambda r, a: [p + [x] for p in r for x
in Xs], range(N), [[]])

print permute(['red', 'white', 'blue', 'green'], 3)

Actually, we should probably not call it "permute". In combinatorics,
"permutation" usually is reserved for sorting operation on a given
combination. However, I don't have a good name for the described
operation, either. Some people would probably call it "sequential draw
with replacement". It's more like "combination" as in the case of a
"combination lock", or as in "slot-machine combinations". (46 entries
in Google. Zero entry for "slot-machine permutations", quoted search
used.)

For simple permutation on a given list, the voodoo version is:

permutations = lambda x: reduce(lambda r, a: [p[:i] + [a] + p[i:] for
p in r for i in range(len(p)+1)], x[1:], [x[:1]])

print permutations(['a', 'b', 'c'])

No if/else statements. No explicit recursion. And it works for
zero-length lists as well. Now, if someone could do the general P(n,
k) and C(n, k) versions, I'd appreciate it. :)

Hung Jung


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Thu Oct 28 15:51:31 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 19:51:31 GMT
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrnco2j9p.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:34:12 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:
...
> Python is in fact strong typed - in opposition to php or perl or even C,
> this won't work:
> 
> a = "1" + 2
> 
> as "1" is a string and 2 an integer. And even though C is statically typed,
> it won't complain - you just end up with an unexpected result.

[slightly offtopic defense of C and C++]

That's true only if a is a 'char *' of course (and if you didn't expect
this unexpected result ;-).

In C++ 'char *' would have been invalid, but not 'const char *' or
(and this is worse) 'std::string'.

> And pointers are not evil in themselves - the are a neccessity to create
> recursive structures.

I'd say they are neccessary, period.  But note that I count what Java and
Python call "references" as pointers ...

> But deliberately casting pointers can be very harmful 
> - a reason why its forbidden in languages like java and AFAIK ada.

Yes; lots of casts in C code (or worse, in C++ code) is a very, very bad
sign. Note though, that in the absense of casts, C and in particular C++ are
pretty strongly typed for pointers. Strongly enough to keep me happy, at
least.

>> More concretely, I am thinking particularly of Python vs C++.
>> So, are there any examples (without pointers, references, or
>> adress-taking), which would have a different result in Python and in C++?
> 
> I have difficulties to understand what you want here. Please elaborate.

I think he means the static/dynamic typing, and if it makes a difference in
a simple C and a simple Python program, if we pretend that all names are
just "variables".  Hard to come up with a meaningful answer, but how about:

a = 2                         const int a = 2;
if something_rare_happens:    if(something_rare_happens) {
    return b                      return b;
a = 'hugo'                    }
                              std::string a("hugo");
bar(a)                        bar(a);

In the Python program, we might clobber 'a' by accidentaly reusing its name
for something of a different type.  C++ is stricter about this (doesn't
allow the construct above, in fact) and you can look at the code
(statically) to see which names are in scope and which are not.

In Python, you can forget to give 'b' a value, and not notice until that
code executes. You can in C++ too, and the runtime effects will be more
subtle but worse. The compiler is more likely to catch pure typos, though.

In Python, it is often hard to look at a function such as 'bar' and say you
know it is always called with an integer argument, or a string, or a 'Foo'
object. It's not even enough to look at all places where 'bar' is called,
because the type of b may depend on the phase of the moon or other dynamic
things. In C++ they compiler makes the guarantees, unless someone has
willfully bypassed the type system.

Is all this caused by the static/dynamic typing difference? No, but it
certainly has to do with it. Both languages have made a decision here, and
that of course works together with the rest of the language design. Python
doesn't /have/ to declare variables and parameters to give them a type, so
Guido said you don't have to, and let functions take all kinds of flexible
arguments.  C++ had to have declarations/definitions, so Bjarne used them to
add the 'const' keyword, to give values a scope and making it well-defined
when objects are destroyed. And so on.

For what it's worth, I think both kinds of typing are interesting and useful
tools. Neither of them are obsolete or inferior; neither of them will
disappear in the next ten years.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct  8 14:04:06 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:04:06 -0700
Subject: wxPython toot
In-Reply-To: <30B8EFDA-1952-11D9-8C02-0003939C968C@unito.it>
References: <4166C6C9.7030501@comcast.net>
	<30B8EFDA-1952-11D9-8C02-0003939C968C@unito.it>
Message-ID: <20041008110316.ED97.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Hi to all
> can anyone point me to a wxpython tutorial (something like the Intro to 
> tkinter by Lundh)?

I don't know if there is such a good resource, but I find just looking
through the wxPython demo to be very educational.

 - Josiah



From bradtilley at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 16:18:11 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:18:11 -0400
Subject: bz2 module
Message-ID: <cl18e4$ma5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I'm having a bit of trouble using the bz2 module. The documentation for 
it is very poor. Here's what I'm trying to do:

import bz2

x = file('test.bkf', 'rb')

while True:
         data = x.read(1024000)
         if not data:
                 break
         bz2.BZ2File('test.bkf.copy', 'w').write(data)

x.close()

It fails with this error:
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'BZ2File'

Can anyone give me an example of how to use bz2 to compress files. Why 
don't the docs give examples of this?!?

Thanks,
Brad





From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Oct 21 12:50:40 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:50:40 -0300
Subject: Re-raising the right exception
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7AB1@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[sjmaster at gmail.com]

#- I want to make a network call, and if it raises an exception, I want
#- to close the network connection before allowing the exception to
#- propagate up the stack. However, trying to close the network
#- connection might itself raise an exception, and I don't care about
#- that exception; I want to send the original exception. Apparently the
#- way to do this is:
#- 
#- try:
#-     network.command()
#- except Exception, bob:
#-     try:
#-         network.close()
#-     except:
#-         pass
#-     raise bob

Use finally:

>>> try:
          d
    finally:
	    try:
                {}[2]
          except:
                pass

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#19>", line 2, in -toplevel-
    d
NameError: name 'd' is not defined
>>> 

.	Facundo
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From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 27 07:09:11 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:09:11 +0200
Subject: String to Hex
References: <6f402501.0410270242.521c6ab2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <clnvjg$36k$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Michael Foord wrote:

> How do you safely turn an arbitrarily long signed hex string into a
> long integer ?
> e.g. -0x55aff8080000
> 
> When treating them as hex literals I'm getting future warnings that
> from 2.4 hex values greater than sys.maxint will always return
> positive values. I've had to treat them as strings and write a
> function to turn them into longs a character at a time ! I couldn't
> find a built in function that would do this for me.

One (fragile) way to avoid that Python 2.3 interprets
0x80000000...0xffffffff (on 32-bit systems) as negative integers is to add
an explicit sign:

$ python -c"print int('0xffffffff', 0)"
-c:1: FutureWarning: int('0...', 0): sign will change in Python 2.4
-1
$ python -c"print int('+0xffffffff', 0)"
4294967295
$ python -c"print int('-0xffffffff', 0)"
-4294967295

Peter



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Oct  7 19:44:13 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:44:13 -0500
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
In-Reply-To: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041007234413.GA6737@unpythonic.net>

You could create a Text widget and insert lines of text in it.

import Tkinter
def add_rows(w, titles, rows):
    for r in rows:
        for t, v in zip(titles, r):
            w.insert("end", "%s:\t%s\n" % (t, v))
        w.insert("end", "\n")

app = Tkinter.Tk()
t = Tkinter.Text(app)
t.pack()
info = [['Ali',18],
        ['Zainab',16],
        ['Khalid',18]]
add_rows(t, ["Name", "Age"], info)
app.mainloop()

If there are many lines, you can use a scrollbar widget to scroll the
text widget.  You can use the tabs= argument of the Text widget to
adjust the alignment of the second column.  If you want to make the
items "interactive", you can use tags and tag_bind to react to things
like button presses.  You can set the text widget to be "disabled" to
keep the user from changing the contents.

Jeff
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From jerf at jerf.org  Fri Oct 15 14:49:07 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:49:07 GMT
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
References: <mailman.5015.1097859379.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.15.14.48.29.705882@jerf.org>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:56:12 -0500, Donnal Walter wrote:

> The following method is defined in one of my classes:
> 
>      def setup(self, items={}):
>          """perform setup based on a dictionary of items"""
>          if 'something' in items:
>              value = items['something']
>              # now do something with value
...

It mostly depends on the contents of the "do something with value" that
you have peppered throughout. I would pull out the various "do somethings"
into methods, but other then that, if you need the full flexibility of a
dict that can contain anything and you need to do things with arbitrary
combinations, there is little else to do.

After pulling things out into methods, I'd actually shift the "if"
statement into the method and do something like the following:

def setup(self, items = None):
    if items is None:
        items = {}

    self.items = items

    for method in ('something', 'another', 'spam', 'eggs'):
        getattr(self, method)()

which will make it more flexible in the long term.

A few other things leap to mind (might want to separate the self.item
setting from the loop, so children can override the loop without messing
up items in calls to the super class; if you don't know what I mean
because I'm being somewhat vague here, don't worry :-) ), but that's about
all you can do without getting silly.


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Oct 19 13:06:08 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:06:08 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <donn-359BF6.12424718102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<4173eed0$0$29488$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<donn-359BF6.12424718102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <41754983$0$27918$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Donn Cave wrote:
> In article <4173eed0$0$29488$636a15ce at news.free.fr>,
>  Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> wrote:
> ...
> 
>>*Short answer :*
>>args are passed by ref, but bindings are local.
>>
>>*Long answer :*
>>You first need to understand what 'variables' in Python are. They are in 
>>fact just a symbol referencing an object. Think of a Python 'variable' 
>>as an entry in a dict, the name of the variable (the 'symbol') being the 
>>key and the reference to the object being the value (AFAIK, this is 
>>exactly what they are).
>>
>>You also need to understand the difference between mutable and immutable 
>>objects. Strings, numerics and tuples are immutables. Which means that 
>>you can not change them. When doing :
>>s = "Hello "
>>s += "World"
>>... you are not modifying the string object bound to s, but creating a 
>>new string object and binding it to s.
> 
> 
> Well, true enough for string, but not true for list for example.

I may not have made clear enough that this consideration only applied to 
immutable objects...

> 
> Aside from this wretched wart on the language, as another followup
> has already pointed out, you really don't need to distinguish
> mutable vs. immutable to understand argument passing and variable
> binding in Python.
> 
> If you write:
>   def f(a, b):
>       a = 5
>       b.flog(5)
> 
> ... it makes no difference whether either argument is mutable
> or immutable.  a becomes a different object notwithstanding,
> and b.flog operates on the caller's original object whether flog
> modifies anything or not.  We tend to make this too complicated.

Perhaps, but still there's the case of

def foo_list(bar_list):
   bar_list += ['42']

which behave quite differently from

def foo_str(bar_str):
   bar_str += '42'

My 2 cents
Bruno




From lidaobing at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 00:43:43 2004
From: lidaobing at gmail.com (Li Daobing)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 21:43:43 -0700
Subject: how to use fold(or hideshow) in emacs python-mode
Message-ID: <1097556223.206641.167420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Hello,
I want to use fold-mode or hideshow mode under emacs, but it doesn't
work.
  Cound you tell me how to do this?
  Thank you.

Li Daobing



From i.horvath at alco.co.hu  Tue Oct 12 02:51:22 2004
From: i.horvath at alco.co.hu (Ivan Horvath)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:51:22 +0200
Subject: store binary files in mysql
Message-ID: <416B7EEA.9030500@alco.co.hu>

Dear All,

i would like to store binary file contents to a mysql database in a 
mediumblob fields.
i've got problem when there is a simple quote, double quot, backslash or 
NUL character in the file content, because these characters are 
acceptable by mysql only when there is an escape char. before it.
do you know any solution, how can i replace these characters in order to 
import it to a mysql table?

-- 

Best Regards,

Iv?n Horv?th
Chief Programmer

Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.

/Albert Einstein/




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 21 18:25:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:25:28 +0200
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <mailman.5272.1098381729.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm17og.ctwoqv17vkctxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:

> I wonder, does Python support generic programming paradigm, and to what extent

It appears to me to support generics at least as well as C++ does.  I
just write normal code (no typechecks) and voila, the equivalent of C++
templates (at least).  What do you think is missing?


Alex


From jeffrey at fro.man  Fri Oct  1 11:07:15 2004
From: jeffrey at fro.man (Jeffrey Froman)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:07:15 -0700
Subject: __author__
References: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>
	<VtydnQODWZ6x78DcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <10lqsl4ma3pq33@corp.supernews.com>

Peter L Hansen wrote:

<snip>
> they will never actually be used
> (except for __version__)
<snip>

So what uses __version__ ?

Thanks,
Jeffrey


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct 15 08:20:28 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:20:28 +0100
Subject: Recycle Bin and Python
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B15@iron.ima.umn.edu>

| How do I move files into the windoze recycle bin from python ?
| 
| Regards,
| 
| Fuzzy

I think you want to look at the SHFileOperation in win32com.shell.shell.
You might have to Google for the appropriate bits to put into the
structure.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 03:04:30 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:04:30 +0200
Subject: append to  items  depending on prior item
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjp8of$b9i$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cjpeah$vb9$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjpgdn$ic6$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cjq2fj$abu$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1gl4jes.r2fl029025oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

M. Clift <noone at here.com> wrote:

> Hi Peter,
> 
> Any chance you could point me in the direction of that Alex Martelli's post?
> Can't seem to find it anywhere.

Hmmm, have you tried googling on google groups for the words in the
Subject?  I have, and immediately found said post -- it's at:

<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=append+items+prior+item&hl=en&lr=&ie=
UTF-8&selm=1gl3h2p.1gwm2v6univttN%25aleaxit%40yahoo.com&rnum=1>


Alex


From rialla at start.com.au  Tue Oct 26 05:19:21 2004
From: rialla at start.com.au (rialla at start.com.au)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:19:21 +0200
Subject: Error
Message-ID: <RIKERMDGL6ZoQ1kZUWo000437e7@riker.supergrp.net>

The original message was received at Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:19:21 +0200
from start.com.au [131.158.66.212]

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<python-list at python.org>

----- Transcript of session follows -----
  while talking to python.org.:
>>> MAIL From:rialla at start.com.au
<<< 501 rialla at start.com.au... Refused



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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 16:53:39 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:53:39 +0200
Subject: 2 questions about scope
References: <slrncnq5fr.dam.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<20041025105736.0B0D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5443.1098730662.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Vqcfd.6994$KJ6.2012@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1gm8hz6.ges89610m07cfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
   ...
> but you really shouldn't.  Or use a function scope,
> 
>    i = "something"
>    def scope():
>      for i in range(100):
>        ...
>    scope()
> 
> I mostly use the last when I want some non-trivial
> initialization in my module and don't want the various
> variables hanging around in the process space.  I'll
> also follow it up with a "del scope" so that no one
> can reference the initialization code.

Execution in function scope is also generally quite a bit faster than
execution at module scope or in class scope.  Any nontrivial code in
module scope is best scooped up into a function, which is then executed
and removed.  I'd suggest naming the function '_init' or something like
that -- with a leading underscore to indicate to the reader of the
source that it's a private implementation detail (not _needed_, since
you're gonna delete it after running it once, but helpful to the reader
at no cost to the code's author).


Alex


From hineses at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 14:03:03 2004
From: hineses at hotmail.com (MickeyBob)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:03:03 -0400
Subject: Graceful detection of EOF
Message-ID: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>

How does one detect the EOF gracefully? Assuming I have a pickle file
containing an unknown number of objects, how can I read (i.e.,
pickle.load()) until the EOF is encountered without generating an EOF
exception?

Thanks for any assistance.
MickeyBob



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Sun Oct 17 00:18:41 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:18:41 -0400
Subject: How to get the size of a file?
References: <u0o3n09r9ak5cs0p8k88bbknf3nkqmaplu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <qnklle6f04e.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

User <1 at 2.3> writes:

> Anyone have ideas which os command could be used to get the size of a
> file without actually opening it?  My intention is to write a script
> that identifies duplicate files with different names.  I have no
> trouble getting the names of all the files in the directory using the
> os.listdir() command, but that doesn't return the file size.  In order
> to be identical, files must be the same size, so I want to use file
> size as the first criteria, then, if they are the same size, actually
> open them up and compare the contents.  
>
> I have written such a script in the past, but had to resort to
> something like:
>
> os.system('dir *.* >> trash.txt')

You're looking for os.stat. It returns an object whose attributes have
info about the file.

>>> import os
>>> s = os.stat('somefile')
>>> print s.st_size
2821
(or whatever)

More info in the docs for the os module, of course.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From luismgz at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 21:13:01 2004
From: luismgz at gmail.com (Neuruss)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 18:13:01 -0700
Subject: Comparation to other languages
References: <d8025bdb.0409230127.369f63c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c56b627e.0410141713.160dd6c7@posting.google.com>

This is what you're looking for:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602&page=3

Compares 9 languages including Python and Python + Psyco.


From theller at python.net  Fri Oct 29 15:02:07 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:02:07 +0200
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <fz3x8i1c.fsf@python.net>

Ganesan R <rganesan at myrealbox.com> writes:

>>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:
>
>> Future plans
>>     The ultimate purpose of the 0.9 release series is to shake out the
>>     remaining bugs, especially on platforms I have no access to, and
>>     to target a rock stable ctypes 1.0 release.
>>     When ctypes 1.0 is released, the com framework will be split off
>>     into a separate framework named 'comtypes'.
>
> Congratulations! I maintain ctypes for debian. I am holding off uploading
> the 0.9 versions because they don't support Python 2.2. A Python 2.2 package
> was present in debian for ctypes 0.6.2, I want to be sure that no one is
> using it before uploading 0.9.x.

When I gave up support for Python 2.2, I didn't realize that all the
platforms on sourceforge's compile farm still have Python 2.2.  I had to
configure a install a private 2.3 or newer version myself, although
probably I learned a lot from that.

When will the linux distributions switch from 2.2 to a newer version?
I understood that redhat probably had their reasons to stay with 1.5.2
for quite a long time, but are there similar reasons for other distributions?

Thomas


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Oct  5 15:23:17 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:23:17 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4287.1096945195.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4287.1096945195.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10m5t1rbirngjd0@corp.supernews.com>

Arich Chanachai wrote:

> What if foo doesn't know about bar(), can I tell foo that perhaps it 
> should send the bar() message to...say....boo?


In addition to redefining __getattr__()/__setattr__(), as has already 
been suggested, it's even easier to have your calling code (which 
probably knows more about how to recover from failure than the called 
code) decide what to do.

try:
    foo.bar()
except AttributeError:
    boo.bar()

I'd think that, in most cases, if foo doesn't understand bar(), then it 
won't know *why* you're calling bar(), and thus won't be in the best 
position to decide what other objects to try bar() on. 

To go back to the dog.fetch(cat) example -- if the dog doesn't 
understand how to fetch a cat, it probably doesn't know whether a human 
would understand how to fetch a cat, either.  On the other hand, if 
*you* are asking dog to fetch a cat, and the dog doesn't understand, 
then you'd be in a good position to decide that the dog's owner might 
understand... or that the handy Cat-Fetching Robot (tm) might be a 
better choice.  The dog can only say "I don't understand, and things I 
don't understand go to my owner," while the calling code has a good 
chance of having a meaningful fallback plan for each possible situation.

(This sort of setup, with the caller taking responsibility for failure 
rather than the callee attempting to make sure that *someone* handles 
failure, is far more common in Python than the sort of scheme that 
you're asking for.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Oct 23 09:02:20 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:02:20 +0200
Subject: How to get an encoding a value?
References: <mailman.5323.1098459379.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2tspdiF238hqeU1@uni-berlin.de> <wzfz4561zo.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <cldkor$5k9$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> You mix up characters and glyphs which makes it confusing.
> There are no numeric values associated with glyphs in Unicode, but there
> are numeric values associated with abstract characters.
> (http://www.unicode.org/standard/WhatIsUnicode.html)


> Unicode provides a unique number for every character, no matter what the
> platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language.
> 
> These numbers are called `code points'. (It says `unique' above, but later
> they relax that).
> 
> But you are right regarding the encodings. The Unicode code points can be
> encoded in different ways e.g. with the UTF-8 encoding.

Just checked - yup, you're right: a character might in fact be composed of
several glyphs. So they are closely related (especially in your common
western language), but not the same. 

Sheesh, that stuff is always a bit more complicated than one actually thinks
- I usually get the applicational part of it right, but the inner details
of unicode are still foggy...

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From wwitzel3 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 11:49:36 2004
From: wwitzel3 at gmail.com (Wayne Witzel III)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:49:36 -0700
Subject: unsigned char array -> buffer
In-Reply-To: <cl0svk$v0$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cl0pj4$pj9$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cl0pvi$dt3$05$1@news.t-online.com> <cl0svk$v0$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <7a2229ee041019084965d3d022@mail.gmail.com>

> My problem (no problem with asp and perl, same with php) is, that I would
> like to read the imagedata directly into a string of unsigned chars and
> then print it to the user agent (webbrowser) in binary mode.
> 
# this example assumes you are using PIL
# this example assume mod_python, but can be easily modified.
def displayJpeg():
    im = Image.Open(file)
    imdata = StringIO()
    im.save(imdata, "JPEG")
    del im

    req.content_type = "Content-type: image/jpeg"
    return imdata.getValue()

Hope this helps in some way? I think I might have misunderstood the
question though.


From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Thu Oct 21 05:16:18 2004
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 14:46:18 +0530
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
References: <mailman.5254.1098346524.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xkvh7jpke8il.fsf@cisco.com>

>>>>> "Gerhard" == Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> Last December, we had a short thread discussing (in python-dev) the
> integration of PySQLite into Python 2.4. At the time, I was against
> inclusion, because I thought PySQLite was not ripe for it, mostly
> because I thought the API was not stable.

Thank you for PySQLite and congratulations for reaching the 1.0 milestone. I
have only experimented with PySQLite so far but it's definitely in my
toolbox for any future projects :-).

> I think that a simple embedded relational database would be a good
> thing to have in Python by default. And as Python 2.5 won't happen
> anytime soon, there's plenty of time for developing it, getting it
> stable, and integrating it.

+1. bsddb is in there and SQLite definitely deserves to be included. A free
license, no setup, easy to use - what more can you ask for :-).

> Especially those of you that have used PySQLite in the past, do you
> have any suggestions that would make the rewrite a better candidate
> for inclusion into Python?

I have not used it extensively to be able to get meaningful suggestions. My
personal peeve is not with the PySQLite API but with DB-API 2.0. As some one
(Alex Martelli?) mentioned in another thread, it's high time Python
standardized on one (may be two) mandatory param styles.

> One problem I see is that even the new PySQLite will grow and try to
> wrap much of the SQLite API that are not directly related to the
> DB-API. If such a thing is too complicated/big for the standard
> library, then maybe it would be better to produce a much simpler
> PySQLite, especially for the Python standard library that leaves all
> the fancy stuff out. My codename would be "embsql".

> So, what would you like to see? "import sqlite", "import embsql", or
> "pypi.install('pysqlite')" ?

import sqlite

Ganesan




From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 18 07:15:14 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 04:15:14 -0700
Subject: Python in HTAs
References: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9418be08.0410180315.716d8857@posting.google.com>

m_vddungen at yahoo.com (Marcel van den Dungen) wrote in message news:<98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4 at posting.google.com>...
> Does anybody know how to use Python as the scripting language for HTML
> applications? I tried the following, but I get a script error ('Object
> expected') on the body element.
> 
.................
> Could not find any example on Google either.
> 
> TIA,
> Marcel

Look for "python active scripting" on google. Take into account that
enabling python scripting in html/hta is potentially not safe, and can
not be made such right now (unless you redo it from scrach).


From sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr  Fri Oct  8 08:17:13 2004
From: sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr (Stelios Xanthakis)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:17:13 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject: ANN: GUI wrapper for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython 
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0410081516190.4297-100000@zenon.ceid.upatras.gr>

Hi.

I'd like to announce the availability of a high-level GUI wrapper
for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython.

Check out the screenshot at

   http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/twgui/

I wanted to write a *simple* app with a GUI that didn't look as horrible
as Tk and without having to ask from the users to install this or that. 
All three (pygtk, pyqt and wxpython) have serious drawbacks for one to
invest their time learning them.

Any feedback or help from toolkit gurus is most welcome.

Thanks,

Stelios





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 29 11:07:05 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:07:05 -0400
Subject: Real-time graphs
In-Reply-To: <4182580c$0$78438$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
	<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>
	<4182580c$0$78438$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <abqdnViCjpQEwR_cRVn-rw@powergate.ca>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-10-29, MJR <pynode at centrum.cz> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Need to display data read from telemetry systme. Data might change in
>>order of 1000/s. Not every sample will be displayed, but still need
>>something close to 100sps
> 
> 
> If you want to do 100 frames per second, you're going to have
> to use gaming/animation techniques: Xv extensions,
> double-buffering of frames, etc.

Not to mention using a special monitor with a refresh rate
well above the usual. ;-)

I think he meant "samples per second", though, but didn't
give enough info for us to know his minimum refresh rate.

-Peter


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 00:17:11 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 21:17:11 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<clm68p$6r4$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410262017.a32ec42@posting.google.com>

Rocco Moretti <roccomoretti at hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<clm68p$6r4$1 at news.doit.wisc.edu>...
> Very rarely will the platform limit reflect the 
> algorithmic limit. If you want to limit the range if your numbers, you 
> need to have knowledge of your particular use case - something that 
> can't be done with a predefined language limit.

i'm saying that most of the time, the algorithmic limit will be less
than 2**31 or 2**63 - & that can be checked by the language.


> the limit is still arbitrary. Which 
> one will it be? How do we decide? If we're platform independent, why 
> bother with hardware based sizes anyway? Why not use a base 10 limit 
> like 10**10? 

it doesn't really matter what the limit is, as long as it's large
enough that it's not crossed often. (it's only that a limit of 2**31
or 2**63 can be efficiently checked.)


> I think that one of the problems we're having in this conversation is 
> that we are talking across each other. Nobody is denying that finding 
> bugs is a good thing. It's just that, for the bugs which the overflow 
> catches, there are much better ways of discovering them. (I'm surprised 
> no one has mentioned unit testing yet.)
> 
> Any decision is always has a cost/benefit analysis. For long/int 
> unification, the benefits have been pointed out by others, and your 
> proposed costs are minor, and can be ameliorated by other practices, 
> which most here would argue are the better way of going about it in the 
> first place.

agreed, but what about when you don't use these "better practices"? do
you use them for every variable? overflow catches sometimes help you
then.


From johng2001 at rediffmail.com  Mon Oct 25 04:01:34 2004
From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 01:01:34 -0700
Subject: Reading XML like Python!
References: <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534@posting.google.com>
	<roy-763DD6.22430724102004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ba129ce7.0410250001.2a3c3108@posting.google.com>

> I had the same problem recently.  I used the standard xml.dom.minidom 
> module to parse the XML, and about a page of Python code to pretty-print 
> it.  Unfortunately, I'm not able to release the code, but if you're 
> familiar with how DOM works, you should be able to replicate it in under 
> an hour.  If you're not familiar with DOM, it'll take you longer, but 
> it'll also give you a chance to get familiar :-)
> 
> Have you tried DAGS for "xml pretty-print"?

I suppose I could write a simple parser myself but I was wondering if
this was a problem well solved by someone else already with all the
bells and whistles.

What is DAGS? A Google search came up with "Directed Acyclic Graphs".
Not being a CS guy, I am not sure about the relationship to pretty
printing. Any link?

Thanks.


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Tue Oct 19 01:58:14 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:58:14 +0800
Subject: Python capability do like plugins ?
References: <cl02mu$qfk$1@netnews.hinet.net>
	<1glurfj.zi6798qu4p2fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cl2adu$apg$1@netnews.hinet.net>

Thanks.....
I use a simple method...

sys.commands module --> get file list
re module --> filter file name and path
imp module --> load module
getattr() --> get varabiles

because none dll for unix, I don't know how to use *.pyd
and how to make *.pyd from *.py


"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> 
???????:1glurfj.zi6798qu4p2fN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> Leon <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> wrote:
>
>> example :
>> /home/test/plugins
>> a.py
>> b.py
>> c.py
>>
>> main program can dynamic import plugins directory's files....not normal
>> ?uimport?v
>> like winamp
>
> The main program can insert the plugins directory into sys.path and
> import at will (e.g with __import__) or do it with the imp module or in
> several other ways.  There's a number of recipes in the cookbook...
>
>
> Alex 




From dev at null.oo  Tue Oct  5 11:55:08 2004
From: dev at null.oo (Pinke Panke)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 15:55:08 GMT
Subject: XML and UnicodeError
References: <Xns9578AE59045A7devnulloo@130.133.1.19>
	<5339b60d.0410050013.6bbc673d@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957977C1D83A7devnulloo@130.133.1.19>
	<just-EE3837.12524305102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <Xns9579B6486D994devnulloo@130.133.1.19>

Hello Just

> Are you perhaps using string literals containing non-ascii chars,

Yes.

> yet don't use the 'u' prefix? u"\xff" as opposed to "\xff".

No.

E.g. I convert umlauts to html entities or change symbols to ascii 
strings for file names. Instead of using the x-notation I typed the 
character itself. In the case of my script no character is over chr
(255). An example:
def foo (name):
   name = re.sub(r'?','_registered_',name)
   ... and many more substitutions

I think instead of r'' I should use u''?

It is possible to compile a RE object with the U flag:
matchreg = re.compile(u'?', re.U)
name = matchreg.sub('_registered_',name)

But maybe not neccessary. In my tests using any u-switches and u-
flags makes no difference. The only crucial things were 
1. using unicode().
2. using a coding flag as described in [1]
3. storing the python script as utf-8

For me using unicode() is ok.

[1] http://python.org/peps/pep-0263.html


Martin


From timr at probo.com  Thu Oct 28 01:12:27 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:12:27 -0700
Subject: ReportLab newbie
References: <2uac8bF2802bfU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <gqv0o0h6h0b8gcf6ba2sl965evrnravagq@4ax.com>

Damjan <gdamjan at gmail.com> wrote:

>I'm trying this script with reportlab:
>
>from reportlab.pdfbase import pdfmetrics
>from reportlab.pdfbase.ttfonts import TTFont
>fontname = 'Arial-Bold'
>my_TTF = '/opt/Fonts/arial.ttf'
>font = TTFont(fontname, my_TTF)
>pdfmetrics.registerFont(font)

Do you realize that arial.ttf is normal Arial, and not bold?  Arial bold
lives in arialbd.ttf.

Reportlab automatically registers the Arial family.  You shouldn't need to
register it yourself.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From nick at craig-wood.com  Sat Oct  2 06:30:15 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 02 Oct 2004 10:30:15 GMT
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
	<cam7d.455$UP1.116@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnclsu47.fvk.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
>  I end up making a lot of system() and popen*() calls.  Looking
>  through the 30 or so cases (our of about 6800 LOC) I see that most
>  of them use hard coded parameters that don't need escaping.
>  Some of them do you commands.mkarg

Interesting command!

It doesn't (under 2.3) seem to do the right thing under windows
though, eg

>>> os.system("echo hello")
hello
0
>>> os.system("echo"+commands.mkarg("a"))
'a'
0
>>> os.system("echo"+commands.mkarg("a b '\""))
"a b '\""
0

Wheras if you run that under linux you get what I was expecting

>>> os.system("echo hello")
hello
0
>>> os.system("echo"+commands.mkarg("a"))
a
0
>>> os.system("echo"+commands.mkarg("a b '\""))
a b '"
0

My experiences lead me to believe Windows is big on " -> "" escaping
in the shell...

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Wed Oct  6 16:06:00 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:06:00 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <10m8hf0rkv5m000@corp.supernews.com>
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<10m8hf0rkv5m000@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <41645028.2030201@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
> All of which highlights why I like Python -- clarity of expression! ;)
>
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International
>
You had me virtually rolling over with laughter!


From matt.price at utoronto.ca  Wed Oct 27 16:04:33 2004
From: matt.price at utoronto.ca (Matt Price)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:04:33 -0400
Subject: piping a stream to a python script
Message-ID: <20041027200433.GA496@utoronto.ca>


Hi folks,

I'm writing a python script which I plan to use in a macro for mutt,
the mailer.  The script is supposed to generate and send an email
based on a mailto: url pulled out of an email header.  The header will
be passed to the script in the following form, using a pipe:  

 <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>,
        <mailto:python-list-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>

(the mutt macro looks like this:
| formail -x List-Unsubscribe: | /usr/local/scripts/mailout.py )

I'd like to capture the stream in a string object.  Is there a simle
way to do this?  

Thanks much,

Matt


-------------------------------------------
Matt Price	    matt.price at utoronto.ca
History Department, University of Toronto
(416) 978-2094
--------------------------------------------

please don't use the following addresses:  zeus at derailleur.org
aardvark at derailleur.org


From usenet.0.lho at spamgourmet.com  Fri Oct 29 02:31:59 2004
From: usenet.0.lho at spamgourmet.com (Joachim Bowman)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:31:59 +0200
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <C62dnYO2h5XrZuLcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA@rogers.com>
	<C62dnYO2h5XrZuLcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <2ue6dnF2a5mmrU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

Peter Hansen wrote:
> This seems like an appropriate post to which to attach a reference
> to a nice article contrasting the GPL and the Mozilla Public License
> (MPL): http://croftsoft.com/library/tutorials/gplmpl/
> 
> Summary of that essay, in the words of its author:
>    "I state in this essay that MPL is more free and open than GPL."

There is, of course, a controversy about this point.  The GNU people 
claim[0] that people who call the GNU GPL "viral" and other licences 
"more free" actually aren't talking about freedom but about power.

J

[0] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/freedom-or-power.html


From psparago at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 24 19:38:50 2004
From: psparago at yahoo.com (Peter Sparago)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 16:38:50 -0700
Subject: QueryInterface on IDispatch in Python ...
Message-ID: <584da15e.0410241538.3830b170@posting.google.com>

I am working with the MSHTML editor control. I used
win32com.client.gencache.EnsureModule on the MSHTML type library to
generate the necessary IDispatch support for all the various
interfaces used by MSHTML.

I have just implemented some of the necessary custom COM
interfaces/gateways to allow me to take control of MSHTML's
right-click menu.

One of the callbacks that MSHTML makes (and I've implemented) is
'ShowContextMenu' (on the IDocHostUIHandler interface). One of the
arguments passed to ShowContextMenu is a generic IDispatch reference
to the current HTML Element - ultimately this is an IHTMLElement
interface reference.

Python understands that this reference passed to 'ShowContextMenu' is
an IDispatch interface but when I do a QueryInterface on this object
to get the IHTMLElement interface (like so:)

element = dispElement.QueryInterface(IID('{3050F1FF-98B5-11CF-BB82-00AA00BDCE0B}'))

I get the following error:

exceptions.TypeError: {There is no interface object registered that
supports this IID}

What am I doing wrong? IHTMLElement *is* defined in the module .py
file that was generated by EnsureModule from the type library,
IHTMLElement is derived from IDispatch. Shouldn't I be able to make
late-bound calls on the generic IDispatch reference?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


From olepar at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 10:26:29 2004
From: olepar at gmail.com (Oleg Paraschenko)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 07:26:29 -0700
Subject: Python AST as XML
References: <1e015c2a.0410272209.3e831f94@posting.google.com>
	<3sg1o0djs6u5o055pvu88610n5k5498i1q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1e015c2a.0410290626.4abbb779@posting.google.com>

Hello,

Andy Dingley <dingbat at codesmiths.com> wrote in message
news:<3sg1o0djs6u5o055pvu88610n5k5498i1q at 4ax.com>...
> On 27 Oct 2004 23:09:02 -0700, olepar at gmail.com (Oleg Paraschenko)
> wrote:
> 
> >maybe of some interest:
> 
> Maybe 5 years ago, before we realised what a bad idea it was.

  Definitely, I'm not from this "we" set.

> 
> 
> >http://pysch.sourceforge.net/ast.html
> >
> >[quote]
> >XML can be considered as an external representation of in-memory
> >tree-like structures, 
> 
> Yes. But why would I want to ?

  Have you used XPath to navigate in a tree? Have you wrote functions
to navigate in a tree manually, using some DOM-like interface? If yes,
then you know the difference. It is like using regexps vs manual string
processing.

>   XML is a clumsy _internal_
> representation and it's only useful as an external representation if
> you need some lowest-common-denominator more than you need a good and
> appropriate representation.

  No, I don't worry about lowest-common-denominator. I know a silver
bullet for tree processing (xpath + xslt) and want to use it.

>  The best external representation of
> Python is some Python source, not some over-abstracted XML version.

  It depends. How can you, for example, eliminate tail recursion
in the Python source form representation?

> 
> 
> > and XML-related standards as methods of processing such data. 
> 
> XML-related protocols don't process data, they process an XML
> representation of that data.

  While data and XML representation are isomorphic, it is not
important.

> Their ability to do so is based on the
> XML aspect of it, not the underlying data model. This makes them
> somewhere between clumsy to develop wiith, or simply incapable of
> addressing the problem.

  When data is tree, a gap between XML and data is minimal.

> 
> "Lets make all our data standards interwork by using XSLT" was the
> theme of late '99.   It didn't work.

--
Oleg


From adurdin at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 20:21:14 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:21:14 +1100
Subject: id() collisions on bound methods [was: metaclass and
	customization with parameters]
In-Reply-To: <20041005235752.29723.1522463815.divmod.quotient.10124@ohm>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F33@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
	<20041005235752.29723.1522463815.divmod.quotient.10124@ohm>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a04100517216b5bf323@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:57:52 GMT, exarkun at divmod.com <exarkun at divmod.com> wrote:
> 
>    1) instanceObj.methodAttr results in a *new* bound method object every time it is evaluated.

**enlightenment dawns**

That's the bit that I was missing. It all makes sense now.


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 04:58:35 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:58:35 +0100
Subject: Quixote Question
Message-ID: <qb0am0phstiregekcdvatig5ccg9k8d5p2@4ax.com>

I have a question about quixote. I've looked at the website but
couldn't easily see the answer tomy question - so I thought I'd ask
the intelligent and helpful folk over at comp.lang.python ;-)

Quixote is a web-framework. Does it act as a server or can it act as a
frameowrk using the CGI protocol ?

I would like to develop a website with user login, download manager,
statistics etc and I don't want to reinvent the wheel. *However* I am
using someone elses server, so I would like to do it using python CGI.

Is this  :
a) Possible with Quixote
b) A sensible use of Quixote

Many TIA

Fuzzyman

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sat Oct 23 13:10:33 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:10:33 -0400
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <slrncnj8td.nq.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5342.1098478990.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncnj8td.nq.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
Message-ID: <Z4qdnU7lH-sRDefcRVn-jw@giganews.com>

Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone wrote:

> Nevow _CAN_ embed code in the template. and you can do that in this way:

<snip>

what you showed here is basically a workaround, a way to
"trick" python that runs the templating engine into
directly executing a statement ... not a wise choice ...

Moreover why is it that the webpage is so
eager to explicitly contradict this possibility?

http://www.divmod.org/Home/Projects/Nevow/

"Nevow includes the ability to load templates off disk...
... The attribute technique was inspired by the attributes
used by ZPT. However, no actual code may be embedded in
the HTML template"

Istvan.





From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Wed Oct 20 06:35:46 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 10:35:46 GMT
Subject: strongly typed
References: <slrncnbau9.bba.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<mailman.5202.1098234500.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncncfrv.q9e.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

>  There have been past discussions in this newsgroup that you may be able to 
>  find with Google.

indeed (blush)
thanks a lot!

gabriel

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| We act as though comfort and luxury                                     |
| were the chief requirements of life,                                    |
| when all that we need to make us happy                                  |
| is something to be enthusiastic about.              (Einstein)          |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 29 15:07:52 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:07:52 +0200
Subject: Becoming Unicode Aware
References: <6f402501.0410270256.13cf5727@posting.google.com>
	<2u9dpvF27biksU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<b0afa8dd.0410290956.14b7d5de@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <clu4e6$cm7$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Egil M?ller wrote:

>> Unfortunately the http standard seems to lack a specification how form
>> data encoding is to be transferred. But it seems that most browser which
>> understand a certain encoding your page is delivered in will use that for
>> replying.
> 
> Fourtunately, this is utter bullshit :)
> 
> Send the Content-Type http header to the client, with the value
> "text/html; charset=UTF-8". You may have to send it both as an HTTP
> header and as a meta http-equiv-HTML tag to get it to work with all
> browsers though. Usually (I don't knwo if it is really in the standard
> that the client have to behave this way), the client will reply in the
> same encoding as you sent your page with the form. Anyway, the client
> will prolly set a similar tag upon reply, but I don't know about that,
> and don't care as just expecting the same encoding works for all major
> browsers (mozilla, IE, opera).


You claim that my statement is bullshit, and then paraphrase it - delivering
a page in a certain encoding means exactly that it contains the charset
header, as that is required unless you use iso-8859-1 which is default:

http://www.w3.org/International/O-HTTP-charset

And then you as point out that expecting the right encoding usually works,
but only because of expirience, not because its standarized to behave that
way - now where is that different from saying that most browsers will use
that for replying?

I've no problem beeing corrected, or having my statements clarified - but I
don't think they generally qualify as bullshit, and prefer not to be
accused of uttering it.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct 21 03:06:21 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:06:21 GMT
Subject: Method Underscores?
In-Reply-To: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
Message-ID: <NdJdd.3105$KJ6.2919@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Chris S. wrote:
> Is there a purpose for using trailing and leading double underscores for 
> built-in method names? My impression was that underscores are supposed 
> to imply some sort of pseudo-privatization,

They are used to indicate special methods used by Python
that shouldn't be changed or overridden without knowing what
you are doing.

> but would using 
> myclass.len() instead of myclass.__len__() really cause Python 
> considerable harm?

One way to think of it is as a sort of namespace.  Python
needs some specially names methods so that

   print a == b

works correctly ('__eq__' or '__cmp__' for the comparison,
and '__str__' for the stringification for printing).
These could be normal looking functions (meaning without
leading and trailing underscores) but then there's
the worry that someone will override that by accident.

By making them special in a way that most people wouldn't
use normally and formally stating that that range is
reserved for system use, that accident won't happen.
No one will accidently do

    def search(self, name):
      ....
      self.str = "Looking for " + name

only to find latter that 'str' is needed for printing
the stringified version of the instance.

Or consider the other way around.  Suppose everyone decides
we need a new protocol for iteration (pretend this is a
few years ago).  The new protocol requires a new method
name.  What should it be called?

If there isn't a reserved subspace of the namespace then
any choice made will have a chance of interfering with
existing code.  But since "__"+...+"__" is reserved, it
was easy to add special meaning to "__iter__" and know
that no existing code would break.


In most cases the builtin function interface to those methods
does more than forward the call.  For example, iter()
supports both a 2nd parameter sentinel and fall-back support
for lists that don't provide an __iter__.

Of the several dozen special methods, how many would
you really call directly?  It's unlikely you would call
__add__, __mul__, __lt__, ... if only because you would
loose the support for the given operation

 >>> (1).__add__(2)
3
 >>> (1).__add__(2.0)
NotImplemented
 >>>

My guess is you'll have len(), abs(), maybe iter(),
but not many more.  Should only that handful have
non-special names or should all special methods have
non-special names?  If the first, why is that handful
so special?

Do you prefer -x or x.inv() ?


 > As much as I adore Python, I have to admit, I find
> this to be one of the language's most "unPythonic" features and a key 
> arguing point against Python. I've searched for a discussion on this 
> topic in the groups archives, but found little. What are everyone's
> thoughts on this subject?

I've not thought so.  I find it helps me not worry about
conflicting with special method names.  So long as I
don't use the "__"*2 words I'm free to use whatever I want.
Even reserved words if I use getattr/setattr/delattr.

There has been discussion, but I only found a comment
from Guido about 5 years ago saying the "__" are meant for
system names and from Tim Peters about 2 years back saying
that there are only a few methods you might call directly.
And a post of mine saying that I like this feature of Python
compared to in Ruby where special methods are syntactically 
indistinguishable from user-defined methods.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From EP at zomething.com  Wed Oct  6 00:23:34 2004
From: EP at zomething.com (EP)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 20:23:34 -0800
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
Message-ID: <20041005202334.1581764800.EP@zomething.com>

Russell Nelson notes:

> 
> Choose poor examples, and then criticize them as poor choices?
> 

true enough, but the suggested scheme introduces another variable into the language syntax; I might always make good choices <wink> on what delimiter I choose, but I might also end up working on code written by someone else who makes less good choices.  Or vice versa.

 
> Exactly.  It really would be better to have one(1) string literal
> which can quote anything without reverting to backslashing.  Why one?
> Simpler parsing, simpler learning of the language, fewer choices to
> make while programming.


Agreed, though the paradox has already been noted in this thread...  if anyone has a brilliant answer, it'd be a fascinating mind bend.


Eric

Python syntax is great, but I sometimes wonder: where did all the semicolons go and what do they do there?  Do they languish unemployed and on the dole?


From brian at rk-speed-rugby.dk  Wed Oct 27 05:01:25 2004
From: brian at rk-speed-rugby.dk (Brian Elmegaard)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 11:01:25 +0200
Subject: distutils for non-python windows installers
Message-ID: <u1xfkk00q.fsf@rk-speed-rugby.dk>

Hi,

I can find a few questions regarding the use of distutils for making
non-python windows installers, but none of them really helps. Are
there any pointers on how to do this? Can it be done?

A little OT: What about making MSI installation files instead of .exe?
Is it a good idea to consider at all?


-- 
Brian (remove the sport for mail)
http://www.et.dtu.dk/staff/be


From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Mon Oct 11 07:56:59 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:56:59 +0200
Subject: define 'in' operator on lists
In-Reply-To: <20041011113736.GB31784@unununium.org>
References: <ckdl7u$m08$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<20041011113736.GB31784@unununium.org>
Message-ID: <416A750B.4030002@cenix-bioscience.com>

Phil Frost wrote:

>On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 11:53:36AM +0200, ..:: sjf ::.. wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I want to define 'in' operator (or any "magic" function) on list which 
>>returns True value if all of list (i.e. _list) elements appears in other 
>>list (i.e. L) in the same order and False otherwise. By way of example:
>>
>>L = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]
>>_list = [3, 4, 5]
>>
>>if L2 in L0:
>>	return True
>>else:
>>	return False
>>
>>How to do that?
>>    
>>
>
>You might find that the 'sets' module does what you need.
>  
>
The OP said he cares about order, so sets will certainly *not* do what 
he wants.  I suggest looking up string matching algorithms.  This is 
effectively what has been asked for but for strings of numbers instead 
of strings of characters.

Aaron



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Oct 21 13:12:51 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 17:12:51 GMT
Subject: Re-raising the right exception
References: <6542462a.0410210837.29ed3e0f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9589B946150F8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

SM wrote:

> For example,
> 
> try:
>     network.command()
> except:
>     try:
>         network.close()
>     except:
>         pass
>     raise
> 
> I want to make a network call, and if it raises an exception, I want
> to close the network connection before allowing the exception to
> propagate up the stack. However, trying to close the network
> connection might itself raise an exception, and I don't care about
> that exception; I want to send the original exception. Apparently the
> way to do this is:
> 

<snip>

You could move the cleanup code out to another scope:

try:
    network.command()
except:
    def network_cleanup():
      try:
        network.close()
      except:
        pass

    network_cleanup()
    raise

In practice something like network_cleanup probably wants to be called from 
more than one place so it could be in a function defined elsewhere.

Another option is to use try..finally:

try:
    network.command()
finally:
    try:
        network.close()
    except:
        pass

then you don't need to reraise the exception at all.

Use the first suggestion if the cleanup only needs to be done when the code 
failed (e.g. to remove partially created files from disc). Use the second 
if the cleanup needs to be done always, e.g. closing files or network 
connections.


From http  Sat Oct  9 16:56:57 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Oct 2004 13:56:57 -0700
Subject: integer type conversion problem/question
References: <slrncmf2hc.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<slrncmgf4i.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<20041009124139.EDB7.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4640.1097353821.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xacuvobja.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Faheem Mitha <faheem at email.unc.edu> writes:
> I'd looked at this earlier, but they didn't seem to have implemented a
> C API. If there is one, I haven't been able to find it in
> http://python.org/doc/2.3.4/api/api.html or anywhere else. 

Mersenne Twister is written in C and there's a Python wrapper for it.
If you have the Python source distro, you can just compile the
Mersenne Twister code into your C program.


From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Mon Oct  4 02:54:29 2004
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 06:54:29 GMT
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<EPmdnagKPrUPhtPcRVn-iQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.3529.1095642828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gkgxts.1fq0rwq10mycqiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41513aac$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gkih9r.pfgqukvpt1rcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<37tjl09an200u6tejkrtklc8ib86uk7rm1@4ax.com>
	<7E_6d.33917$35.1643590@news4.tin.it>
	<Cj08d.164190$MQ5.50781@attbi_s52>
	<1gl4haj.15lm6eufbcchqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Xns95785A9E572D2JanC@213.118.38.197>

Alex Martelli schreef:

> More interestingly, one might infer a desire to recapture for positive
> self-identification a word that has acquired negative connotations in
> popular use.  Perhaps the best-known such fight currently going on is
> for the word "hacker", but, after all, such _is_ the history of quite a
> few other words... consider "gothic" and "baroque"...

Well, if you go to a "gothic" record store, you'll find one or more racks 
labeled "medieval", which in reality contains music that's mostly based on 
"early renaissance" music...   ;-)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 09:55:17 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:55:17 -0400
Subject: 2.3.4 windows installer
Message-ID: <ck3hs6$dri$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Is there an easy way to make the windows installer default to c:\Program 
Files\Python23 instead of c:\Python23? I know that the path can be 
changed manually at install, but that's a pain when you have 
dozens/hundreds of machines.

Python stands out like a sore thumb when installed into the root 
directory and users who aren't familiar with it think it's Spyware or 
Malware of some sort and tend to try and delete the folder. We runs a 
script that removes it from Add/Remove Programs and the Start Menu's 
'Programs' folder, but we'd like to not have the installer default to 
the root dir... any suggestions???


From klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de  Wed Oct 27 04:10:36 2004
From: klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de (Klaus Neuner)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 01:10:36 -0700
Subject: module signal
References: <3e96ebd7.0410260054.197dd951@posting.google.com>
	<cll4p6$ca2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3e96ebd7.0410270010.3ec136ea@posting.google.com>

> to see that you didn't import the re module which raises a NameError.

O.k. Sorry for that. Sometimes one doesn't see the most obvious things.

So I should reformulate my problem as follows:

Why does (2) not work (though (1) does)?

# (1)

import sys, signal


class Timeout(Exception): 
    pass

def alarm_handler(signum, frame):
    raise Timeout

try:
    signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, alarm_handler)
    signal.alarm(3) 
    n = 0
    while 1:
        print n
        n = n+1
except Timeout:
    print "Time over."

#############################################################

# (2)

import sys, signal, re

class Timeout(Exception): 
    pass

def alarm_handler(signum, frame):
    raise Timeout

try:
    signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, alarm_handler)
    signal.alarm(3) 
    re.search("a(((.)*c)*d)*e", "abcdf"*20)
except Timeout:
    print "Time over."


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 06:56:22 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 03:56:22 -0700
Subject: Becoming Unicode Aware
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410270256.13cf5727@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to become 'unicode-aware'... *sigh*. What's that quote - 'a
native speaker of ascii will never learn to speak unicode like a
native'. The trouble is I think I've been a native speaker of latin-1
without realising it.

My main problem with udnerstanding unicode is what to do with
arbitrary text without an encoding specified. To the best of my
knowledge the technical term for this situation is 'buggered'. E.g. I
have a CGI guestbook script. Is the only way of knowing what encodign
the user is typing in, to ask them ?

Anyway - ConfigObj reads config files from plain text files. Is there
a standard for specifying the encoding within the text file ? I know
python scripts have a method - should I just use that ?

Also - suppose I know the encoding, or let the programmer specify, is
the following sufficient for reading the files in :

def afunction(setoflines, encoding='ascii'):
    for line in setoflines:
        if encoding:
            line = line.decode(encoding)

Regards,


Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 03:17:17 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:17:17 +0200
Subject: Scope actions
References: <4167fa34$0$22761$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1glil60.6f4uv31c4619mN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Will McGugan <news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com> wrote:
   ...
> Alternatively, should I give up this little idiom and use try / finally?

Alas, this is indeed the case.  Wish it would be better...


Alex


From kbk at shore.net  Sat Oct 30 10:20:38 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:20:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
Message-ID: <200410301420.i9UEKcYr011477@h006008a7bda6.ne.client2.attbi.com>

Patch / Bug Summary
___________________

Patches :  243 open ( +3) /  2678 closed (+17) /  2921 total (+20)
Bugs    :  789 open (+17) /  4545 closed (+17) /  5334 total (+34)
RFE     :  156 open ( +1) /   131 closed ( +0) /   287 total ( +1)

New / Reopened Patches
______________________

Fix various x86_64 build issues  (2004-10-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1050475  opened by  Bob Halley

make distutils.core.run_setup re-entrant  (2004-10-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1051216  opened by  Bob Ippolito

xml.dom missing API docs (bugs 1010196, 1013525)  (2004-10-21)
       http://python.org/sf/1051321  opened by  Mike Brown

locale.getdefaultlocale does not return tuple in some OS  (2004-10-21)
       http://python.org/sf/1051395  opened by  Jiwon Seo

Syntax error in Misc/NEWS  (2004-10-22)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1051866  opened by  Felix Wiemann

plistlib: add plst resource functionality, fix bugs  (2004-10-22)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1052399  opened by  Bob Ippolito

urllib2: better import ftplib and gopherlib etc late  (2004-10-24)
       http://python.org/sf/1053150  opened by  Robert Kiendl

nntplib: add support for NNTP over SSL  (2004-10-24)
       http://python.org/sf/1053365  opened by  Reinhard Speyerer

ftplib: add support for MDTM command  (2004-10-24)
       http://python.org/sf/1053369  opened by  Reinhard Speyerer

Decimal speed up  (2004-10-24)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1053375  opened by  Facundo Batista

mingw compile  (2004-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1053879  opened by  Matthias Kramm

fix inplace string concat hash error  (2004-10-25)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1054197  opened by  Bob Halley

automatic XMLRPC boxcarring via multicall for xmlrpclib  (2004-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1054434  opened by  Eric Ries

Fix for Unix macro expansion in citetitle  (2004-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1054715  opened by  Richard Brodie

bdist_deb - Debian packager  (2004-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1054967  opened by  Geoffrey T. Dairiki

CGIHTTPServer can't redirect  (2004-10-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1055159  opened by  Thomas Guettler

cgi.py does not correctly handle fields with ';'  (2004-10-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1055234  opened by  Vova

typo in comment (unicodeobject.h)  (2004-10-28)
       http://python.org/sf/1056231  opened by  Baris Metin

python / pythonw replacement in C  (2004-10-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1056561  opened by  Michiel de Hoon

No ValueError for safe_substitute()  (2004-10-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1056967  opened by  Barry A. Warsaw

Patches Closed
______________

__main__ for whichdb.py  (2004-10-01)
       http://python.org/sf/1038388  closed by  rhettinger

Bug fixes and cleanup for decimal.py  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048728  closed by  rhettinger

tarfile.py: patch for bug #1017553  (2004-10-10)
       http://python.org/sf/1043972  closed by  akuchling

replace() method in unicode objects  (2003-02-05)
       http://python.org/sf/680863  closed by  nnorwitz

Remove __file__ after running $PYTHONSTARTUP  (2003-04-11)
       http://python.org/sf/719777  closed by  nnorwitz

sre fixes for lastindex and minimizing repeats+assertions  (2003-03-31)
       http://python.org/sf/712900  closed by  nnorwitz

Some bug fixes for regular ex code.  (2003-04-14)
       http://python.org/sf/720991  closed by  nnorwitz

optimize eval_frame  (2003-12-21)
       http://python.org/sf/864059  closed by  nnorwitz

Implementation for PEP 318 ([as classmethod] version)  (2004-04-08)
       http://python.org/sf/932100  closed by  nnorwitz

Add FreeBSD* to configure.in for --enable-shared  (2004-10-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1044395  closed by  perky

New patch for Python 2.3 spec file.  (2004-07-23)
       http://python.org/sf/996316  closed by  jafo

Syntax error in Misc/NEWS  (2004-10-21)
       http://python.org/sf/1051866  closed by  bcannon

plistlib: add plst resource functionality, fix bugs  (2004-10-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1052399  closed by  jvr

Decimal speed up  (2004-10-24)
       http://python.org/sf/1053375  closed by  rhettinger

fix inplace string concat hash error  (2004-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1054197  closed by  rhettinger

traceback module caches sources invalid  (2003-05-14)
       http://python.org/sf/737473  closed by  perky

do not add directory of sys.argv[0] into sys.path  (2004-05-02)
       http://python.org/sf/946373  closed by  wrobell

New / Reopened Bugs
___________________

2.4b1 Win32 installer eliminates 2.3 assoc  (2004-10-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1050486  opened by  Mike C. Fletcher

reindent.py strips execute permission on Unix  (2004-10-20)
       http://python.org/sf/1050828  opened by  David Ripton

incorrect traceback filename from pyc  (2004-10-21)
       http://python.org/sf/1051638  opened by  Kevin Quick

HTMLParser doesn't treat endtags in <script> tags as CDATA  (2004-10-21)
       http://python.org/sf/1051840  opened by  Luke Bradley

Appending non-empty element to a non-empty list yields None  (2004-10-22)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1052036  opened by  Peer Janssen

Seting defaultencoding through an environment variable  (2004-10-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1052098  opened by  Diedrich Vorberg

page on python api down  (2004-10-22)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1052274  opened by  mperpick

pdb runcall should accept keyword arguments  (2004-10-22)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1052503  opened by  Leonardo Rochael Almeida

filelist.findall should use os.lstat  (2004-10-23)
       http://python.org/sf/1052827  opened by  Geoffrey T. Dairiki

time module returns wrong timezone under windows  (2004-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1053539  reopened by  panjunyong

time module returns wrong timezone under windows  (2004-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1053539  opened by  panjunyong

Unjustified SyntaxWarning  (2004-10-25)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1053604  opened by  Markus Gritsch

Why is this expression = False?  (2004-10-25)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1053629  opened by  Alexander R?dseth

PyOS_InputHook not called in subprocess  (2004-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1053687  opened by  Michiel de Hoon

Segfault in tuple_of_constants  (2004-10-25)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1053819  opened by  Duncan Grisby

help() nor in tutorial index  (2004-10-25)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1053956  opened by  Guido van Rossum

Python doesn't exit with proper resultcode on SIGINT  (2004-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1054041  opened by  James Y Knight

serious string hashing error in 2.4b1  (2004-10-25)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1054139  opened by  Bob Halley

RE '*.?' cores if len of found string exceeds 10000  (2004-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1054564  opened by  Rob

New failure in debug build  (2004-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1054615  opened by  Tim Peters

difflib HtmlDiff() extra space on inserted 1 character lines  (2004-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1054821  opened by  Dan Gass

Python may contain NFC/NFKC bug per Unicode PRI #29  (2004-10-26)
       http://python.org/sf/1054943  opened by  Rick McGowan

pdb.set_trace should go up one more frame  (2004-10-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1055168  opened by  Johannes Gijsbers

bdist_wininst broken for pure Python distributions  (2004-10-27)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1055540  opened by  Thomas Heller

weakref callback vs gc vs threads  (2004-10-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1055820  opened by  Tim Peters

HTMLParser not compliant to XHTML spec  (2004-10-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1055864  opened by  Luke Bradley

dir() should only return strings  (2004-10-28)
       http://python.org/sf/1056293  opened by  Skip Montanaro

subprocess fails for args="...", executable="..."  (2004-10-28)
       http://python.org/sf/1056441  opened by  Russell Owen

Lambda in list comprehension  (2004-10-28)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1056483  opened by  Doug Blank

minor error in os.access  (2004-10-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1056498  opened by  edward

ambiguity in os.tmpfile  (2004-10-29)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1056502  opened by  edward

ambiguity in os.tmpfile  (2004-10-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1056515  opened by  edward

subprocess works poorly on Windows with Python 2.3  (2004-10-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1057048  opened by  Russell Owen

subprocess on Windows 2: unexpected failure  (2004-10-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1057052  opened by  Russell Owen

subprocess on Windows: extra windows  (2004-10-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1057061  opened by  Russell Owen

Bugs Closed
___________

relative on-disk SYSTEM id handling is incorrect  (2004-02-22)
       http://python.org/sf/902037  closed by  rhettinger

filemode() in tarfile.py makes wrong file mode strings  (2004-08-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1017553  closed by  akuchling

test_subprocess 2.4b1 fails on FreeBSD 5.2  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048808  closed by  astrand

No command line args when script run without python.exe  (2004-09-16)
       http://python.org/sf/1029047  closed by  facundobatista

Appending non-empty element to a non-empty list yields None  (2004-10-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1052036  closed by  peerjanssen

page on python api down  (2004-10-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1052274  closed by  loewis

pdb runcall should accept keyword arguments  (2004-10-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1052503  closed by  rhettinger

call arg of lambda not updating  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048870  closed by  rhettinger

time module returns wrong timezone under windows  (2004-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1053539  closed by  tim_one

Unjustified SyntaxWarning  (2004-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1053604  closed by  rhettinger

Why is this expression = False?  (2004-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1053629  closed by  doerwalter

Segfault in tuple_of_constants  (2004-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1053819  closed by  rhettinger

help() nor in tutorial index  (2004-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1053956  closed by  rhettinger

serious string hashing error in 2.4b1  (2004-10-25)
       http://python.org/sf/1054139  closed by  rhettinger

strptime doesn't work with %U  (2004-10-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1045381  closed by  bcannon

bdist_wininst broken for pure Python distributions  (2004-10-28)
       http://python.org/sf/1055540  closed by  mhammond

Lambda in list comprehension  (2004-10-28)
       http://python.org/sf/1056483  closed by  rhettinger

ambiguity in os.tmpfile  (2004-10-28)
       http://python.org/sf/1056502  closed by  facundobatista

New / Reopened RFE
__________________

Attempt to run all atexit handlers  (2004-10-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1052242  opened by  Greg Chapman

Seting defaultencoding through an environment variable  (2004-10-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1052098  reopened by  loewis

RFE Closed
__________

Seting defaultencoding through an environment variable  (2004-10-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1052098  closed by  loewis



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Oct 19 10:17:00 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:17:00 +1000 (EST)
Subject: execvp() on Solaris
In-Reply-To: <f197302b.0410190230.5f17d652@posting.google.com>
References: <f197302b.0410180514.4c38809b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5151.1098148373.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<f197302b.0410190230.5f17d652@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041019235646.W528@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, mikeSpindler wrote:

> You might not be aware - os.system calls execvp.  Thus, when I call
> os.system I'm getting execvp errors when I run on Solaris.  Thank you
> for the responses so far.  I'd love to hear how to resolve the known
> issue of Python not using the system's execvp.  THANK YOU!

os.system() calls system() (in Modules/posixmodule.c).  How any given
libc implements system() is a vendor issue, but it doesn't surprise me
that it would use execvp().

Without the exact error message, as other replies have also requested,
we're no wiser.

I also don't comprehend your assertion about there being a known issue of
Python not using the system's execvp().  If your gripe is that Lib/os.py
implements os.execvp() in terms of execv()/execve(), then information
about why you believe that is a problem would also be appreciated.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen ACT 2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Oct 21 15:27:15 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:27:15 -0700
Subject: Threads in embedded interpreter doesn't run
In-Reply-To: <ba9d8463.0410200621.464e04a8@posting.google.com>
References: <ba9d8463.0410191255.5bb8bd7f@posting.google.com>
	<10nbdfqhgkgra70@corp.supernews.com>
	<ba9d8463.0410200621.464e04a8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10ng383jl2ngq75@corp.supernews.com>

devrim.erdem at gmail.com wrote:

>Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message news:<10nbdfqhgkgra70 at corp.supernews.com>...
>  
>
>>devrim.erdem at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Could anyone give me some hints to understand why the thread can not
>>>execute during my application loop.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>This is a complete shot in the dark, but is there any chance that your 
>>rendering loop is holding on to the Python GIL?  Doing so would prevent 
>>any (other) Python code from running for as long as the lock is held.
>>    
>>
>
>Thanks Jeff.
>
>I haven't so far explicitly done anything with Python GIL in my
>application. Is there a function which could tell me if the Python GIL
>is held or not ?
>  
>

I've never done any extending/embedding, so I don't really know; I'm 
just working with what I've seen mentioned here on c.l.py (and I usually 
skip extending/embedding threads, since I don't do it).  But I believe 
that the GIL is released and reclaimed by (from vague memory) 
PyBeginAllowThreads and PyEndAllowThreads, or something like that.  
You'll need to read through the extending/embedding docs to figure out 
how they work, though, because I don't know enough to help you there.  
:)  Just remember that you can't touch any Python internals (or do much 
of anything through the interpreter) unless you hold the GIL, and that 
no other Python threads can run while you hold it.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From ian at cottee.org  Mon Oct  4 09:05:50 2004
From: ian at cottee.org (Ian J Cottee)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:05:50 +0900
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
In-Reply-To: <cjr4mp$dj0$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp>
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4211.1096808398.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cjr4mp$dj0$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp>
Message-ID: <5eu732-2gg.ln1@suse.zobbo.org>

Daniel Dittmar wrote:

> On the other hand, Paul Graham paints Java programmers as dimwits. So 
> quoting him is likely to start a flamewar. This is perhaps not the best 
> choice from a diplomatic point of view.

That is not what he said or meant. As he himself clarifies:

"""In a recent talk I said something that upset a lot of people: that 
you could get smarter programmers to work on a Python project than you 
could to work on a Java project.

I didn't mean by this that Java programmers are dumb. I meant that 
Python programmers are smart. It's a lot of work to learn a new 
programming language. And people don't learn Python because it will get 
them a job; they learn it because they genuinely like to program and 
aren't satisfied with the languages they already know.

Which makes them exactly the kind of programmers companies should want 
to hire. Hence what, for lack of a better name, I'll call the Python 
paradox ... """

http://www.paulgraham.com/pypar.html

Ian


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Oct 18 17:28:09 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:28:09 +0200
Subject: execvp() on Solaris
In-Reply-To: <f197302b.0410180514.4c38809b@posting.google.com>
References: <f197302b.0410180514.4c38809b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41743568$0$9656$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

mikeSpindler wrote:
> I've seen it addressed in searching, but not specifically what is
> recommended to get around it.  On Linux where I did my development all
> was fine.  But then going to Solaris for the target I found I couldn't
> resolve the errors wrt execvp().  It's apparently not syntax, but I
> could be wrong.  Any other thoughts on how to get execvp() working
> and/or how to cat a file in a new window without bringing tkinter into
> the discussion?
> 
> My example:
>   os.system("xterm -geometry 120x20 -e \"tail -f ./logs/DATAFILE\"&")

I'm not sure I understand the question. You ask about os.execvp, but
then bring up an example for os.system, which is something entirely
different.

As for this os.system call: it should work fine if xterm is in the path,
if DISPLAY is set, and if ./log/DATAFILE exists (and if tail is in the
path, which it should be).

Regards,
Martin


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Oct 23 11:02:22 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 08:02:22 -0700
Subject: Example of how to use logging for both screen and file
References: <du7acufgcr9.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.5320.1098454525.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2e37dc1.0410221237.2609dcad@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410230702.38bb4912@posting.google.com>

Here's a simple example of logging DEBUG info to file and INFO to
console. This example has been added to the documentation in CVS.

import logging

#set up logging to file - see previous section for more details
logging.basicConfig(level=logging.DEBUG,
                    format='%(asctime)s %(name)-12s %(levelname)-8s
%(message)s',
                    datefmt='%m-%d %H:%M',
                    filename='/temp/myapp.log',
                    filemode='w')
#define a Handler which writes INFO messages or higher to the
sys.stderr
console = logging.StreamHandler()
console.setLevel(logging.INFO)
#set a format which is simpler for console use
formatter = logging.Formatter('%(name)-12s: %(levelname)-8s
%(message)s')
#tell the handler to use this format
console.setFormatter(formatter)
#add the handler to the root logger
logging.getLogger('').addHandler(console)

#Now, we can log to the root logger, or any other logger. First the
root...
logging.info('Jackdaws love my big sphinx of quartz.')

#Now, define a couple of other loggers which might represent areas in
your
#application:

logger1 = logging.getLogger('myapp.area1')
logger2 = logging.getLogger('myapp.area2')

logger1.debug('Quick zephyrs blow, vexing daft Jim.')
logger1.info('How quickly daft jumping zebras vex.')
logger2.warning('Jail zesty vixen who grabbed pay from quack.')
logger2.error('The five boxing wizards jump quickly.')

leads to

10-22 22:19 root         INFO     Jackdaws love my big sphinx of
quartz.
10-22 22:19 myapp.area1  DEBUG    Quick zephyrs blow, vexing daft Jim.
10-22 22:19 myapp.area1  INFO     How quickly daft jumping zebras vex.
10-22 22:19 myapp.area2  WARNING  Jail zesty vixen who grabbed pay
from quack.
10-22 22:19 myapp.area2  ERROR    The five boxing wizards jump
quickly.

in the file and

root        : INFO     Jackdaws love my big sphinx of quartz.
myapp.area1 : INFO     How quickly daft jumping zebras vex.
myapp.area2 : WARNING  Jail zesty vixen who grabbed pay from quack.
myapp.area2 : ERROR    The five boxing wizards jump quickly.

on the console (note the absence of the DEBUG message on the console).

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Oct 25 17:04:46 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:04:46 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d6770$0$513$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<vKKdnUxHIOPNzODcRVn-2Q@powergate.ca>
	<417d5862$0$45532$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<m37jpevade.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<417d6770$0$513$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1098738287.22370.52.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 20:52 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

> It's not really that.  The situation is more like:
> 
>  Customer orders A.
>  Customer pays for A.
>  Customer needs support for A.
>  Customer gets support for A.
> 
> No problem, so far. 
> 
>  You give customer some GPL software B along with written
>  statement that free support is not provided for B.
>  
>  Customer want's help with B.
> 
> Sales is _not_ going to let you tell Customer that you don't
> provide support for B. 

You *do* provide support for B.  Just not *free* support.  Win-win ;) 

Somehow I find your company sales department's failure to abide by your
own company's written agreements to be a somewhat less than convincing
argument against open source <wink>.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 20 08:38:04 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 05:38:04 -0700
Subject: reading a file...
In-Reply-To: <20041020073024.26268.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
References: <20041020073024.26268.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <1098275884.25386.96.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-20 at 07:30 +0000, Sandeep Avinash Gohad wrote:
>   
> Hello
> 
> I opened a file in a read mode
> 
> a=open('c:/a.bd4', 'r')
> print a
> a.read()
> 
> (This .bd4 format is not known for me.)

http://filext.com/detaillist.php?extdetail=BD4

> This gives the following output :

<snip>

> so i can not read that file,according to me the data is in the hexadecimal format

There is no such thing as 'hexadecimal format'.  It's a binary file
(i.e. not a text file).  The hex numbers you see are simply Python's way
of displaying non-ascii information in a useful way.

> please tell me how to read this data and convert it into long datatype
> and then copy the data and save it into .csv file.

Without knowing the format of the file you are not going to get very
far.  You can certainly take the contents of that file and make it into
a csv file, but I doubt that it's going to do you much good.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 16:30:02 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:30:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041023T222621-815@post.gmane.org>

drs <drs <at> remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com> writes:

> I am looking for a list of all unique strings of length x whose
> elements are from the set a, b, and c.
> 
> So, for example, in this case it would be
> 
> aaa, aab, aac, aba, abb, abc, aca, acb, acc, ... cca, ccb, ccc
> 
> but I need for the length and the number of elements to be variable.


Much clearer, thanks.  Is this what you're looking for:

>>> def f(chars, n):
... 	for char in chars:
... 		if n == 1:
... 			yield char
... 		else:
... 			for string in f(chars, n-1):
... 				yield char + string
... 				
>>> list(f('abc', 1))
['a', 'b', 'c']
>>> list(f('abc', 2))
['aa', 'ab', 'ac', 'ba', 'bb', 'bc', 'ca', 'cb', 'cc']
>>> list(f('abc', 3))
['aaa', 'aab', 'aac', 'aba', 'abb', 'abc', 'aca', 'acb', 'acc', 'baa', 'bab',
'bac', 'bba', 'bbb', 'bbc', 'bca', 'bcb', 'bcc', 'caa', 'cab', 'cac', 'cba',
'cbb', 'cbc', 'cca', 'ccb', 'ccc']

Steve



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 20 05:55:54 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:55:54 +0200
Subject: reverse Jython
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<1glwjc5.1n573ij1sh2nhiN%mark.asbach@post.rwth-aachen.de>
	<4175a1c7@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1glydz1.n7jpqgqoufimN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:

> Mark Asbach wrote:
> 
> > If you need an interesting topic: why not write a just-in-time compiler
> > for Python? 
> > 
> > There's already some interesting stuff in module "weave" and the pythonc
> > from Jython, but having a python interpreter use (say) gcc at runtime to
> > convert and probably optimize Python code to natively executable
> > binaries, you could speed up Python to the max.
> > 
> I think another issue here is that Python bytecode is not stable, as 
> everyone had said it. So unless a specification on that is present, 
> implementing JIT compiler for Python is futile... in my opinions.

Nah - just call it "a JIT compiler for Python 2.4".  If there are minor
bytecode changes in 2.5, it will be correspondingly minor to adjust the
JIT.  And you can start with the body of work (previous art) already
present in psyco and in the pypy project -- indeed since they're open
source you can build on top of either or both; psyco's dormant, but
pypy's quite active and you may end up fruitfully cooperating with pypy
people (we _ARE_ extremely open to community participation!!!) among
which is Armin Rigo, psyco's author.  pypy minimizes issues due to
unfamiliarity with C -- it uses pyrex as a backend.

If you're keen to remain in the Java/JVM world for whatever reasons,
there may be interesting work in helping complete Jython _AND_ ensuring
it cooperates smoothly with JVM JIT's (I hear it doesn't, so far, but
this IS just hearsay -- I know nothing of the issue).  Not sure this is
easy to package up as a thesis topic.  Another possibility would be to
work on Python/Eclipse integration -- there's quite a lot of previous
art and some projects may be ongoing, but that is one extremely useful
wide set of tasks which look like they'd be suitable for packaging up a
thesis topic from.


Alex


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 23:37:14 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 20:37:14 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410251937.5355a8c7@posting.google.com>

Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote in message news:<Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA at giganews.com>...
> kartik wrote:
> 
> > there seems to be a serious problem with allowing numbers to grow in a
> > nearly unbounded manner, as int/long unification does: it hides bugs.
> 
> No it does not.
> 
> Just because a runaway program stops sooner by hitting the
> integer limit it does not mean that this having this limit
> is a validation method.

i didn't say it is. all i say is that it catches bugs - & that's
valuable.


>  > i feel this is not so important as the quality
>  > of code a programmer writes
> 
> A code that relies on hitting the integer limit
> is anything but high quality.

once again, i'm not relying on the integer limit to catch bugs, but
i'd much rather have bugs exposed by an overflow exception than by end
users complaining about wrong data values.


> If you are worried about some numbers growing too much, then
> check them yourself, you'll get much better results that way.

maybe, why not use an automated test built-in 2 the language? i get it
4 free.

-kartik


From tuure at laurinolli.net  Sat Oct 16 22:56:32 2004
From: tuure at laurinolli.net (Tuure Laurinolli)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 05:56:32 +0300
Subject: beginning index for generators
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5041.1097931341.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5041.1097931341.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cksml1$hmv$1@epityr.hut.fi>

kosh wrote:
> I was wondering if there is or there could be some way to pass a generator an 
> optional starting index so that if it supported that slicing could be made 
> more efficient. Right now if you do use a generator and do a [100:110] or any 
> other kind of slice it reads all the values up to 100 also. 
> 
> I know a lot of generators have to do all previous parts before they can do 
> the next part but it would be a nice optimization that can start at any index 
> to take an optional argument to tell them what index they are currently 
> working on. This could make strides more efficient also since it would not 
> have to run the generator to skip the parts it was not using.

I think adding an optional .skip(n) to the fenerator protocol could be 
useful, it could be used for strides too, and I can't think of a much 
more generic way to do things.

However, the caller willing to use this optimization would always need 
to check if .skip() is defined, although this could naturally be 
automated to some degree.

It could be specified as:

If an iterator object has a function skip([n=1]), it can be used to 
advance the iterator n steps without it having to yield the intermediate 
values. The end state of the iterator should be the same as with:
for i in range(iterable):
     iterable.next()


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct  3 02:54:21 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 23:54:21 -0700
Subject: simple socket code
References: <c9qt22-6pk.ln1@munjoz.verat.net>
Message-ID: <88e23673.0410022254.ed3903f@posting.google.com>

> lenght=os.fstat(file.fileno())[stat.ST_SIZE]
> print lenght

> headers['Content-Lenght']=lenght

I am not experienced with webDav, but perhaps you are trying to spell
"length".  I believe the name of the header matters in this case.

 - Josiah


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Fri Oct 15 07:49:01 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:49:01 +0200
Subject: How to python raw socket ????
References: <cko3dl$91d$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <416fb93e$0$28812$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

I had see that :  http://monkey.org/~dugsong/pypcap/

It's what you search ?

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau
m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B







From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sun Oct  3 04:47:10 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 08:47:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: File handling: The easy and the hard way
References: <pan.2004.09.30.13.56.48.18412@web.de>
	<mailman.4141.1096557347.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnclvf1h.of1.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:15:32 -0400, Jeremy Jones <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Hans-Joachim Widmaier wrote:
...
>>Especially not when the error is not in the program itself, but rather
>>just a mistyped filename. (Most of my helper scripts that we use to
>>develop software handle files this way. And even my co-workers don't
>>recognize 'file or directory not found' for what it is.) End users are
>>entitled to error messages they can easily understand like "I could not
>>open 'blaah' because there is no such file". 
>>
> So, you're saying that dumping a raw traceback like:
> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/foo/bar/bam'
> to a logfile is a no-no?  Instead, it should say:
> 
> I'm sorry sir, but an error occurred when trying to write to file 
> /foo/bar/bam because it wasn't there.

That approach also means different programs will explain the same problem
(failing to use a file provided by the user) in different terms. Bad!

> I think the traceback is perfectly understandable.  I think that even an 
> end-user would be able to comprehend that type of message.

I would prefer the normal Unix layout of the message:

  /foo/bar/bam: No such file or directory

Seeing language internal things like "IOError" puts some people off.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom at no.spam.net  Sat Oct 30 03:08:50 2004
From: JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom at no.spam.net (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:08:50 GMT
Subject: names of parameters as string
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
	<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>
	<m31xfh8uhy.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>
	<mailman.5663.1099065452.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<291020042102228624%JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom@no.spam.net>
	<mailman.5701.1099119087.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <301020040011284107%JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom@no.spam.net>


The simplest thing to do would be to make the variable an attribute of
a class instance.

  class Vars: pass
   # create one instance
  v = Vars()
   # add vars as needed
  v.text = "text"
  v.int = 12
  ...
  print v.text, v.int

Is this what you need?

/Jean Brouwers
 ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.


In article <mailman.5701.1099119087.5135.python-list at python.org>,
andrea valle <andrea.valle at unito.it> wrote:

> Thanks to all for the replies.
> Now, sorry, something related.
> Suppose I have a string and I'd like to create a variable with its name.
> How can I do that?
> 
> I tried to create the variable text assigning to it the value "text" 
> with this:
>  >>> eval("text = \"text\"")
> 
> But it raises an error.
> 
> Thanks as usual
> 
> Best
> 
> -a-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Oct 2004, at 05:59, Jean Brouwers wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Take a look at the getargspec() function in the inspect module.  It
> > returns a 4-tuple and the first item of that tuple is a list of the
> > parameter names of a function or method.
> >
> > <pre>
> >   import inspect
> >   def foo(p1, p2):
> >     pass
> >   print inspect.getargspec(foo)
> >
> > results in:
> >
> >   (['p1', 'p2'], None, None, None)
> >
> > </pre>
> >
> > The second item is the name of the *args argument, the third is the
> > name of the **kwds argument and the last item is a tuple of the values
> > of the kwds args.
> >
> > More details in
> >
> > <http://docs.python.org/lib/inspect-classes-functions.html>
> >
> > and on page 381 of the (outstanding, IMO) book "Python in a Nutshell",
> > 1st edition.
> >
> >
> > /Jean Brouwers
> >  ProphICy Semiconductor, Inc.
> >
> >
> >>>>> def foo( foo_param1, foo_param2):
> >
> >
> > In article <mailman.5663.1099065452.5135.python-list at python.org>,
> > andrea valle <andrea.valle at unito.it> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi to all,
> >> I'd like to access the parameter list of a function (or better of a
> >> method) in order to generate GUI elements.
> >> That is.
> >> If I have this:
> >>
> >>>>> def foo( foo_param1, foo_param2):
> >>     print foo_param
> >>
> >> I'd like to have something like:
> >>
> >>>>> print foo.param_list
> >>>>> 'foo_param1', 'foo_param2'
> >>
> >> My idea is to use the foo_params strings in Tkinter as text for Label
> >> and as variables for Entries.
> >>
> >> What have I to do?
> >>
> >> Thanks a lot as usual
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> -a-
> >>
> >>
> >> _____________________________________________________________________
> >> For your security, this mail has been scanned and protected by Inflex
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> Andrea Valle
> Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
> Facolt? di Scienze della Formazione
> Universit? degli Studi di Torino
> andrea.valle at unito.it
>


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 26 16:36:33 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:36:33 -0700
Subject: Write 10k integers to a file using struct
In-Reply-To: <6dbtn0hpfv8srggke84f0qkq7ll19tm7s5@4ax.com>
References: <6dbtn0hpfv8srggke84f0qkq7ll19tm7s5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20041026133508.0B59.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Thomas <2002 at weholt.org> wrote:
> What's the quickest way to write and read 10.000 integer values ( or
> more )  to and from a file? Using struct somehow? The example in the
> docs shows how to handle to or three arguments, but is the fastest way
> to write and read just a simple :
> 
> while data:
> 	f.write(struct.pack(format, integer-value))
> 
> or is there another, quicker and nicer way to do it????

Look at the array module.

 - Josiah



From jarausch at skynet.be  Wed Oct 27 10:15:51 2004
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:15:51 +0200
Subject: using re: hitting recursion limit
In-Reply-To: <417eab49$1@nntp.zianet.com>
References: <417eab49$1@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <417fad97$0$19564$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

Erik Johnson wrote:
>     I have done a fair amount of regular expression text processing in Perl,
> and am currently trying to convert a running Perl script into Python (for a
> number of reasons I won't go into here). I have not had any problems with
> memory limits using Perl, but in trying to clip out a particular table from
> a web page, I am hitting Python's recursion limit.
> 
> The RE is pretty simple:
> 
> pat = '(<table.*?%s.*?</table>)' % magic_string
> 
>     This seems about as simple as a "real-world" RE can get. If I cut down
> the web page to about 150 lines, this works, but that's not practical - the
> table I need to parse can easily gro to over 1000 lines.  I found the
> following bit in the reference manual from section 4.2.6:

You can do without REs. There is an (even non-recursive) version of
mxTextTools  see http://simpleparse.sourceforge.net/
and it's really fast.

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 10:23:22 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:23:22 -0400
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4176.1096636511.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>	<MJednUj3F8J40MDcRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4176.1096636511.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <AcadnZxtQPvH9cDcRVn-sg@powergate.ca>

Neil Benn wrote:
>          Just out of interest - which tecan robot were you interfacing 
> to - every Tecan robot that I've ever programmed comes with a high level 
> API (Toolbox, Gemini, Logic, WinWash, Magellen).  

I meant to mention, but only barely implied, that the source is
actually available, on Engenuity's project page.  It was a
Cavro RSP9000 robot.

> I would think however 
> that controlling a tecan robot in the environment that it is typically 
> being used in (life sciences R+D) is not industrial control (its my job 
> BTW!).  It's not like making milk....

I use the terms "industrial control" and "automation" rather
interchangeably, along with "laboratory robotics" and other
terms.  It's all the same thing, regardless of the end user,
except when regulatory issues get involved (aeronautics, FDA
approvals, etc).

>    IMHO, I think that Python is not a suitable piece of software for 
> industrial control as it has poor support for bytes (a string shouldn't 
> be used to store bytes!) and also bit twiddling is difficult (people who 
> ask about his on the Python newsgroup are usually shouted at).  

Well, let me see how to answer this politely. :-)  What you *think*
and what is reality are not necessarily the same thing. ;-)  No,
the more polite answer is really that this is an area where perhaps
it's more a matter of opinion than anything else, and mine differs
from yours.

Python certainly has *excellent* ("perfect"?) support for manipulating
bytes, and if you consider that a string is not a string, but is
actually a sequence of bytes, then other than being misnamed for
this application area, a string provides great support for bytes...
certainly *in practice* it works wonderfully, and I guess as someone
who has used Python very successfully for industrial control I'm
somewhat qualified to say so.

As for bit-twiddling, it's rarer than you might think to have to
do more than the odd shift, OR, and AND masking, and maybe an
exclusive-OR or two for spice, and Python is well enough suited that
this isn't really an issue.  Performance-wise, if you have to do
such things to a very high-bandwidth stream of data, it might run
into troubles, but (a) there are options, and (b) it hasn't bothered
me yet...

I was going to show an example from the Cavro code mentioned above,
but all it took was a few | and & operations and it's too boring
to show.

> The 
> other thing that is a problem for python in this is that it is very 
> difficult in python to make your your client is aware of all the errors 
> that you can throw and as you know, when controlling equipment there is 
> a lot of things that are out of your control (an exception that is 
> rarely thrown will often not be caught if the programmer never sees it 
> running and gets lazy).    

Absolutely!  Uncaught exceptions would be a real pain to a customer.

So would untested code.

Not using good testing procedures would be a real sign of carelessness
or sheer incompetence.  I hope no one would subcontract for industrial
control software with anyone who would actually produce software of
the sort you describe above.  Of course, I recommend and use test-driven
development for my code, and don't suffer from the problems you
describe.  And did I mention that the software worked flawlessly the
first time it ran, and has had no bug reports in the month or two
of use it has seen since then? ;-)

Note also that these problems have nothing to do with Python,
and everything to do with poor programming practices.

> apps a little easier to write - although I still spent about 2 days 
> trying to work out how to make a variable volatile (culminating in 
> understanding the threading module!).  

All variables are "volatile" in Python, at least in most senses of
the word.  I don't understand what you were doing...

> The serial module is good but I 
> think that a model of input and output streams with listeners/observers 
> would make far more sense, currently I have to make a polling loop to 
> receive the data, 

You might want to investigate the use of Twisted's serial module,
which wraps around PySerial and effectively provides this, instead
of doing the polling loop approach (which, by the way, I also used
in the Cavro code but might change to Twisted in a later version).

>    Good to see that you didn't use ActiveX (if one more company _boasts_ 
> that their equipment comes with 'industry standard' ActiveX I think I'm 
> going to cry)!!  Believe it or not I still have to interact with some 
> equipment using DDE!!!!

Actually, we *did* use ActiveX, unfortunately, because that's what
the customer wanted to use to interface LabVIEW to the driver.  It
does work, and works reliably, but in the end it's the use of
LabVIEW for this stuff to which I object more strongly than I
object to the use of ActiveX.  (Without LabVIEW in the picture,
however, ActiveX would also have been unnecessary, as we would
have gone pure-Python.)

-Peter


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 11:01:29 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:01:29 -0400
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <cjjq26$kl4$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<du71xgjpsay.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<z5nr98uuk2l4.ul5xbcv4hq6x.dlg@40tude.net>
	<r8ydncR5KordxcDcRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
	<cjjq26$kl4$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <wbWdnZus0dLU7MDcRVn-pg@powergate.ca>

David Fraser wrote:
> Peter L Hansen wrote:
>> I'm able to offer the use of a server to host a web site, ...
> 
> No need to do servers/websites/domains, just use sourceforge...

SourceForge is, from my perspective, an incredibly unreliable
and awkward beast, and I'd be loathe to host anything on it
at this point.  I _might_ host an actual project on it, but
I certainly wouldn't consider it for what I'm actually picturing
in this discussion, which is some sort of "Python in Automation"
"portal" or whatever they're called these days... something
along the lines of a combination of a wiki, maybe an RSS feed
(if someone will explain what the benefit is), a mailing
list, and maybe some sort of Vaults-style way for people to
provide links to their own projects (some of which, doubtless
would be SourceForge-hosted).

The simplest thing that could possibly work (tm) of course,
is a wiki and a mailing list, and I can have that up in
a few minutes if desired...

-Peter


From dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 11:50:44 2004
From: dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com (Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:50:44 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Qd6dnUTV2ZBkBefcRVn-pg@giganews.com>
	<1gm4rq5.1c25kfc12o6jivN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417cb790$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <slrncnq86k.os.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:
> Zope Page Templates has a far better approach to this imho. Where you 
> define reusable markup in a macro.
>
> The box could then be defined with title and content slots like::
>
>
>      <div metal:define-macro="box">
>          <h5><metal:block define-slot="title">The title</metal:block></h5>
>          <metal:block define-slot="content"/>This is example 
> content</metal:block>
>      </div>
>
> [snip]
>
> This approach makes it relatively easy to reuse markup as well as logic. 
> It is possible use arbitrarily complex markups as "parameters" to the 
> slots in the template. Wich makes it very nice for larger systems.

Which with Nevow is perfectly natural since you can do:

<div nevow:render="content">
    <nevow:slot name="content" />
</div>

and then in the code:

def render_content(self, ctx, data):
    ctx.tag.fillSlots('content', My_Fragment())
    return ctx.tag

Just like I've done in weever (on berlios) where there is a main file that
defines the base class for all the pages and requires a content fragment as
argument with which it will fill the empty slot to render the whole page.

Then I subclass the main page class to give the behaviour I need, and then I
pass the content 'page' to have it rendered in the output.

-- 
Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Now running FreeBSD 5.3-beta7
Blog: http://vvolonghi.blogspot.com



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct  2 22:58:20 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 22:58:20 -0400
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <BhA7d.1014$M05.141@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<415d9229$0$18966$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<yfsacv6i3fg.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<415e7803$0$9581$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<yfs1xghfi38.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<BhA7d.1014$M05.141@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <hZJ7d.288451$4o.158827@fed1read01>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> 
>>   ``os.run('touch', 'foo')`` [1]
>>
>> vs.
>>
>>   ``os.spawnvp(os.P_WAIT, 'touch', ['touch', 'foo'])``
> 
> 
> I for one would rather use the first.  I know about the
> spawn* functions but ...
> 
>> (Which spawn* is the
>> right one? What does all that funny jargon in the docs mean? What were 
>> the
>> right arguments again? Ooops, I forgot to pass the command I wanted to 
>> run as
>> an argument... Finally -- what are the chances of getting all these 
>> right from
>> memory?)
> 
> 
> Bingo.  I'll add the above to my toolbox.  Even then I'll
> need to figure out which of
> 
> os.spawnl    os.spawnlp   os.spawnv    os.spawnvp
> os.spawnle   os.spawnlpe  os.spawnve   os.spawnvpe
> 
> to use.  Yes I know there's a mnemonic (p = path, e =
> environment, v = something, l = something else) but I
> forget them.
> 
"l" is a list of arguments and "v" is a variable number - which of 
course in C requires a varargs signature.

To support your contention that they aren't easy to use, I had to look 
them up in the docs (which I did to improve my mind (which could use 
some improvement, believe me))

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From 1 at 2.3  Sat Oct 16 23:43:26 2004
From: 1 at 2.3 (User)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 03:43:26 GMT
Subject: How to get user input with time limit?
Message-ID: <6bq3n09a3dlbnhbhpt1nrt1ud7l9g4b9t7@4ax.com>

Anyone know of a function like raw_input(), but with a built-in or
user-specified time limit?  Ideally, it would return an empty string
('') and resume processing if the user didn't enter something within
~10 seconds.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 30 09:07:44 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:07:44 -0400
Subject: Regex speed
In-Reply-To: <2uh4g5F29ntaoU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<DiEgd.6304$kM.2345@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<2uh4g5F29ntaoU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <w4mdnc7RG8C9Dx7cRVn-gA@powergate.ca>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> OK, thank you. I now got rid of all the regexes, and - surprise,
> surprise - the speeds are almost equal. The bitter thing about it is
> that there are now twelve LOC more in Python that don't make
> understanding the code easier.
> 
> So the Perl regex engine seems to be highly optimized, at least for
> simple expressions.

Perhaps it's not just your regexes... as Andrew said, "You should post
the actual code ..."  (Preferably both the Perl and the Python, if you
are trying to make this into a them vs. us kind of thing, as you
seem to be doing.)

-Peter


From mitchchapman at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 21 09:51:43 2004
From: mitchchapman at earthlink.net (Mitch Chapman)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 06:51:43 -0700
Subject: WxHTML window
References: <20041020212905.08741.00002215@mb-m13.aol.com>
Message-ID: <da33561c.0410210551.19480fd2@posting.google.com>

lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited) wrote in message news:<20041020212905.08741.00002215 at mb-m13.aol.com>...
> I'm using a wxhtml window to display an email message, my question is, what do
> I need to put in onLinkClicked to make it to where a link is opened in my
> default browser instead of in the wxhtml window?

This works for me (wxPython 2.4.2.1, Python 2.3, Solaris 2.8):

import webbrowser
...
class MyHtml(html.wxHtmlWindow):
...
    def OnLinkClicked(self, linkInfo):
        webbrowser.open(linkInfo.GetHref())


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 19 14:24:15 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:24:15 -0700
Subject: formatting time as milliseconds in logging module
In-Reply-To: <417552ef.232031804@news.oz.net>
References: <mailman.5181.1098204956.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417552ef.232031804@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <20041019111622.0A70.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> >In Windows: time.clock() will get you the number of seconds since you
> >last called it, down to the microsecond (trim as you see fit).
>  ^^^^ first, it seems (certainly not a delta since the last time.clock() call)

Oops, word slip.  My bad, I meant first.

> Don't know why the first value is not a pure 0.0 though.

The C source tells us that in Windows, the performance counter call to
guarantee that it has been started occurs before the counter call to
actually get the number of seconds since the first call.


> Maybe not even all windows. E.g., for NT that is one scheuling time slice,
> but oher variants might have other granularity, IWT.

Good point, though I think that 9x variants also had .01 second
resolution.


> Unless your process is running with hard real time priority, you have to throw in
> os multitasking and interrupt processing latency as well (try using the mouse to drag
> a complex GUI window of another app around continuously while your test runs ;-).

Now you are talking about external system loads and how they effect
timings.  That wasn't the question.

 - Josiah



From deets.nospaaam at web.de  Fri Oct 22 12:04:23 2004
From: deets.nospaaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:04:23 +0200
Subject: How to get an encoding a value?
References: <mailman.5323.1098459379.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2tspdiF238hqeU1@uni-berlin.de>

> I have a some data is encoded into something thing. I want to find out the
> encoding of that piece of data. For example s = u"somedata"
> I want to do something like
> ThisIsTheEncodingOfS =kc  s.getencoding()
> 
> is there are method that tell me that it is unicode value if I provide it
> with a unicode string?

You are confusing unicode with strings with a certain encoding.

Unicode is an abstract specification of a huge number of characters,
hopefully covering even the close-to-unknown glyphs of some ancient
himalayan mountain tribe to the commonly used latin alphabet. There are no
actual numeric values associated with that glyphs.

An encoding on the other hand maps  certain sets of glyphs to actual numbers
- e.g. the subset of common european language glyphs commonly known as
iso-8859-1, and much more - including utf-8, an encoding thats capable of
encoding all glyphs specified in unicode, at the cost of possibly using
more than one byte per glyph.

Now if you have a unicode object u, you can _encode_ it in a certain
encoding like this:

u.encode("utf-8")

If you oth have a string s of known encoding, you can decode it to a
unicode-object like this:

s.decode("latin1")

Thats the basics. Now to your actual question: your example makes no sense,
as you have a unicodeobject - which lacks any encoding whatsoever. And
unfortunately, if you have a string instead of an unicode object, you can
only guess what  encoding it has - if you are lucky, that works. But no one
can guarantee that it works out - neither in python, nor in other
programming languages.

A common approach to guessing the encoding of said string is to try
something like this:

s = <some string with unknown encoding>
encodings ['ascii', 'latin1', 'utf-8', ....] # list of encodings you expect
for e in encodings:
    try:
        if s == s.decode(e).encode(e):
              break
    except UnicodeError:
        pass


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 04:05:17 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:05:17 +0200
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2sucjlF1p5plpU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1glhl0z.1rjqrfs1aihyucN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> > Since an immediate instance of type object has no possible use except as
> > a unique, distinguishable placeholder,
> 
> That's not true -- you can also assign attributes to such
> an object and use it as a record. (It's not a common use,
> but it's a *possible* use!)

That's not true -- you cannot do what you state (in either Python 2.3 or
2.4, it seems to me).  Vide:

protagonist:~ alex$ python2.3
Python 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) 
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> x23=object()
>>> x23.foo=23
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'object' object has no attribute 'foo'
>>>
 
protagonist:~ alex$ python2.4
Python 2.4a3 (#1, Sep  3 2004, 22:25:02) 
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1640)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> x24=object()
>>> x24.bar=24
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'object' object has no attribute 'bar'
>>> 


If an object() could be used as a Bunch I do think it would be
reasonably common.  But it can't, so I insist that its role as
sentinel/placeholder is the only possibility.


Alex


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Oct 20 18:19:02 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:19:02 -0500
Subject: Python 2.3.4 under AT&T MP RAS SVR4: ld: Symbol referencing
	errors.
In-Reply-To: <Xns95891025308alskdjfh10@192.168.0.254>
References: <Xns95891025308alskdjfh10@192.168.0.254>
Message-ID: <20041020221900.GA32392@unpythonic.net>

Python has failed to find the proper way to produce shared libraries on
your system, and instead ld tried to produce an executable program.
(possibly without also including the standard system libraries either)

I have no idea why strftime or __wcstok_ptr_ are required by
structmodule.o, but you surmise correctly that the next names listed are
functions in Python.  If a shared module was produced, these symbols
would be found at runtime within the python binary instead of being a
link-time error.

Python can build without shared modules--see Modules/Setup.*.  This
isn't used much anymore, as far as I know.

Jeff
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From graham at effectif.com  Mon Oct  4 19:06:39 2004
From: graham at effectif.com (Graham Ashton)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:06:39 +0100
Subject: Accessing prefix within setup.py (distutils)
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.04.23.06.38.681220@effectif.com>

I'm writing a setup.py script for installing my application and have a
quick distutils question. My application has a .py file, a
.conf file and a .glade file. I would like them to get installed as
follows:

   /usr/local/bin/myprogram.py
   /usr/local/etc/myprogram.conf
   /usr/local/share/myprogram/glade/myprogram.glade

This is quite achievable if I specify a prefix of /usr/local, with the
following:

    setup(...,
          scripts=["myprogram.py"],
          data_files=[("share/myprogram/glade", ["myprogram.glade"]),
                      ("etc", ["myprogram.conf"])]
          )

My question is how to avoid installing myprogram.conf into /usr/etc
(instead of /etc) if the installer specifies a prefix of /usr? Doesn't
distutils know the difference between a data file and a config file?

If I could detect what the --prefix parameter was set to I could deal with
it myself within setup.py, but I don't seem to be able to get hold of it.

Thanks in advance.

-- Graham


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 03:12:17 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:12:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Recursive Str?
References: <p42ed.835$oI6.618@trndny03>
	<mailman.5297.1098428507.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ok2ed.7210$Ug4.193@trndny01>
Message-ID: <loom.20041022T091113-842@post.gmane.org>

Chris S. <chrisks <at> NOSPAM.udel.edu> writes:
> 
> Actually, it seems I'm confusing __str__ with __repr__. Now things make 
> sense. Thanks for the clarification.

You're welcome.  Glad it was the easy question, not the hard one -- I never 
did bother to look up the __repr__ vs. __str__ discussions on this topic. ;)

Steve




From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct 23 20:01:45 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:01:45 GMT
Subject: Interesting coding idea
In-Reply-To: <2tvup4F24iddjU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2tvup4F24iddjU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <JhCed.5290$KJ6.5243@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Bruno R. Dias wrote:
> Perhaps it would be interesting to program a virtual machine simulating 
> an ancient computer (such as the pdp-7).

Google "PDP-7 emulator".

http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp7emu.html


And this is off-topic to comp.lang.python

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From ville at spammers.com  Sat Oct 30 08:42:46 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 15:42:46 +0300
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnco6oak.nn.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
	<2uh8ckF2954t4U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <du71xfgtm0p.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Reinhold" == Reinhold Birkenfeld
>>>>> <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> writes:

    Reinhold> A great plus will be the new regular expressions.

Well, if they are any good we'll just port them to Python. "import
re2" and we are all set. Everyone wins.


    Reinhold> PS: I'm happy with Python, and I'm not going to complain
    Reinhold> about it. But as a programmer who uses both languages,
    Reinhold> I'm just asking because I'm curious...

Overall, there seems to be some kind of minor consensus (to the extent
it means anything in the internet) that perl6 is a disaster that is
taking way too long to happen. Implementing (rather making the design
decisions) py3k seems trivial in comparison.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From bennie at rotzjes.nl  Wed Oct 27 19:50:31 2004
From: bennie at rotzjes.nl (Bennie)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:50:31 +0200
Subject: how come .insert() don't work
In-Reply-To: <41801852$0$189$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <41801753$0$62043$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<41801852$0$189$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <41803447$0$41713$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Bennie wrote:
> 
>> def tekst_in(self, tag):
>>         tekst_tag={'p': '\t\t<p>\n\n\t\t</p>\n', 'br': '<br />'}
>>         self.tekst.insert(INSERT, tekst_tag[tag])
>>
>> Then I get a AttributeError...
>> I seached the net, can come op white a answer.
> 
> 
> What specific attribute is mentioned in the AttributeError?
> That self has no attribute tekst, or that self.tekst has
> no attribute insert?
> 
> If the former, you need to arrange your class so that self has
> an attribute tekst (e.g. by initializing tekst in __init__).
> 
> If the latter: what kind of thing is self.tekst?
> 
> Regards,
> Martin
self.tekst is a Tkinter.Text() so it has a insert attribute, .insert()


From zathras at thwackety.com  Mon Oct 25 12:59:39 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:59:39 +0100 (BST)
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410251742150.18984-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On 25 Oct 2004, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2004-10-25, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> > Grant Edwards wrote:
> >
> >> Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
> >> in site-packages) in an application.
> >
> > I'd say everything that uses a GPL'd module is derived work
> > and must also be GPL'd. It doesn't matter how you distribute
> > it.
>
> So my application code must be GPL'd even if I never distribute
> the module?  The mere act of inserting the line
>
> "import someGPLdmodule"
>
> Makes my _source_code_ a derived work, and therefore must be
> GPL'd?  That just doesn't sound right.

Depends. If you pull in and use a specific GPL module, then yes, it is
GPL'd. If you don't distribute said GPL module, and you can show
reasonable doubt whether:

   import foo

imports the GPL foo or the non-GPL foo (say 2 files both independently
implemented to a common test suite for a standard), then it's much more
woolley.

After all if "foo" on the target system is from (say) a BSD'd
implementation and your code uses that, then your code isn't GPL
(obviously). If "foo" on the target system is (say) a GPL'd
implementation and your code uses that, then your code does have
to be GPL.

Put another way, if your code is shipped in the py2exe bundle with GPL'd
code and your code will not run without it, then its a derivative work in
the terms of the GPL.

However you can still hit this if the py2exe bundle has to use GPL'd
code even if you don't distribute it - for example if it's the only
implementation that python will bind the names to at run time  because
the only implementation available is GPL.

(These issues are generally why the LGPL was created in the first place if
you're going HUH???!!?!)


Michael.
--
(Not a lawyer, this is not legal advice)



From 59Bassman at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 11:03:26 2004
From: 59Bassman at gmail.com (Abe Mathews)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:03:26 -0400
Subject: Easy List question
In-Reply-To: <dd7a3c47.0410050339.efad894@posting.google.com>
References: <dd7a3c47.0410050339.efad894@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9c991c080410050803b038391@mail.gmail.com>

I apologize in advance as I'm new to python, and relatively new to
programming.  However, I took this as a bit of a challenge this
morning to see if I could come up with another method for generating
the permutations of a list.

This is longer than what you proposed, but it makes sense to me and it
doesn't use the "list" name which I believe is reserved in Python. 
Permute should return a list containing all of the permutations of the
list that you have given it.

Abe Mathews
------------------------------------------

def permute(orig_list):
    newlist = [] # this will be a list of permutated lists
    modlist = orig_list[:] # make a copy so we don't mess with the original
    len_l = len(orig_list)

    for i in range(0,len_l):
        if len_l==1:
            return [orig_list]
        else:
            list_tail = permute(modlist[1:])
            for c in list_tail:
                c.insert(0,modlist[0])
        newlist.extend(list_tail)
        new_end = modlist.pop(0)
        modlist.extend(new_end)
 
    return newlist


l = ["a","b","c","d"]
s = permute(l)

for i in s:print i
print len(s)



On 5 Oct 2004 04:39:49 -0700, Matt Williams <matt at mwilliams.org> wrote:
> Dear list,
> 
> Can anyone explain why the append method here returns an 'unpermuted'
> list (and how to solve it_?
> 
> I'm stuck?
> 
> s=[]
> def permute(list):
>     len_l = len(list)
>     if len_l == 1:
>         print l
>         s.append(l)
>     for i in range (0, len_l):
>         permute(list[1:])
>         # now change position of first element with next (rotate will
> do it?)
>         list.append(list.pop(0))
>         # reflect this change in the main list
>         l[len(l) - len_l:] = list
> 
> l=["a","b","c"]
> 
> permute(l)
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 05:36:52 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:36:52 GMT
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <UWt8d.3156$UP1.2886@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> _Most_ object-oriented languages support object orientation via the
> message passing paradigm. Python included.

Translating the Smalltalk notation to Python -- what are
the messages?  Is it that

   x.y(z)

means "send the __call__  (z)" message to the result of
the "z __getattr__ 'y'" message?

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 26 15:10:36 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:10:36 +0200
Subject: module signal
In-Reply-To: <3e96ebd7.0410260054.197dd951@posting.google.com>
References: <3e96ebd7.0410260054.197dd951@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417EA12C.6060803@hotmail.com>

Hi Klaus,

> What I am looking for is code with the following meaning:
> 
> for n seconds try to do:
>     # any Python code may be inserted here
> print "bla"
> 
> When the n seconds are over, Python should print "bla". It should not
> exit the program. How can this be done? 
It should work with a signal alarm; I don't know why it
doesn't. You could also try a Timer object from the
threading class; it's even easier than a signal alarm.

Regards,
Josef


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sat Oct 23 16:19:20 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:19:20 -0400
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <slrncnl5k2.o9.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5342.1098478990.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncnj8td.nq.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
	<Z4qdnU7lH-sRDefcRVn-jw@giganews.com>
	<slrncnl5k2.o9.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
Message-ID: <lJidnZFM9bFVIefcRVn-vQ@giganews.com>

Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone wrote:

> It's not a workaroud. It's there and you can use that. I can't see a
> different way to execute code from a template without calling exec or eval.
> ZPT does exactly the same, and Nevow provides everything for you to do it.

Directly executing parts of a template as code is a unacceptable
security hole that cannot possibly be allowed in any development
model where there are people that are not supposed to
have complete access to the entire system.

ANd I don't think that is how ZPT works. Although I only used it with Zope and
I'm not sure which one implements the proper security measures.

I would imagine that proper way to go about it would be
to create a python-like, bare-bones language and use that to
interpret the code.

> But as I showed you can embed code in the tag attribute, you simply have to
> write the renderer yourself, since the Nevow way is not to have code
> outside of the python source file.

I think now I understand what you mean. Whatever is in the template
will treated as a string and is dealt with the method that
is associated with the tag.

best,

Istvan.



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Oct  7 23:24:24 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:24:24 -0400
Subject: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<DaKdnbgpTNU0gvjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4521.1097173249.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnkacuxhoyf.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

Brian van den Broek <bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca> writes:

> Frustrated, I turned back to <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines>,
> following several others described as "standalone". Similar situation:
> for instance PikiPiki's install instruction file says:
>
>  > Make sure you have a web server that will let you run CGIs
>
> Each one I tried said (things I interpreted as meaning), that I needed
> Apache, IIS, or some other form of webserver.

If the problem is you don't want to setup and configure a webserver,
there is a simple solution. Assuming the CGI script is in a directory
cgi-bin below the current directory (for PikiPiki, something like
cgi-bin/piki.cgi), then running python's CGIHTTPServer.py module as a
script will give you a webserver to run CGI scripts:

[~/public_html]$ python /usr/lib/python2.3/CGIHTTPServer.py 8080

(where the path there depends on your installation, of course). Then
http://localhost:8080/cgi-bin/piki.cgi will run the piki.cgi script.

Note that it will also serve all files below your current directory to
the world if you're on the internet, so it's not the most secure
thing.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct  6 19:52:02 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:52:02 -0700
Subject: How do you write this in python
In-Reply-To: <8f17f4bc.0410061441.36e60e50@posting.google.com>
References: <8f17f4bc.0410022000.e331cbe@posting.google.com>
	<41603d90_1@newsfeed.slurp.net>
	<8f17f4bc.0410041645.630ee821@posting.google.com>
	<g5cc32-976.ln1@suse.zobbo.org>
	<8f17f4bc.0410061441.36e60e50@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10m915q4pm1cv30@corp.supernews.com>

Ali wrote:

>ok that makes some sense.
>
>  
>
>>You can assign properties whenever you want - it does not have to be 
>>done in the __init__ method.
>>    
>>
>
>This cought my attention so I entered this into the shell to try to do
>this very thing:
>
>  
>
>>>>class card:
>>>>        
>>>>
>      def setProperties(self, name, email):
>         self.name = name
>         self.email = email
>      def show(self):
>         print self.name + '/' + self.email
>
>  
>
>>>>ali = card('ali','ali at ali.com')
>>>>        
>>>>
>
>I got the following error:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<pyshell#27>", line 1, in ?
>    ali = card('ali','ali at ali.com')
>TypeError: this constructor takes no arguments
>
>I thought you said I could assign the properties at any place so I
>defined them in the setProperties() method. What did I do wrong?
>  
>

You can assign attributes whenever you want (and what you're doing is 
setting attributes; properties are something special, and different).

However, when you create a new object by calling the class constructor, 
__init__() is the only function that will be automatically called.  If 
you don't define __init__(), then (in essence) Python will use a dummy 
__init__() that takes only self as an argument, and does nothing.  
However, you've tried to pass several arguments to __init__(), but you 
didn't define your own...

The class you've defined can't be created with name or email attributes, 
since you haven't provided an __init__() to catch them.  However, you 
can create a 'blank' card and then add the name and email later.

 >>> ali = card('ali', 'ali at ali.com')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: this constructor takes no arguments
 >>> ali = card()
 >>> ali.setProperties('ali', 'ali at ali.com')
 >>> ali.show()
ali/ali at ali.com
 >>>

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Oct 28 17:40:19 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:40:19 -0300
Subject: moving files across devices
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7B17@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Matt Price]

#- I'm trying to move files across devices on my linux box.  Here's what
#- I had:  
#-     os.rename(sFileName, dir + newName) 
#- which gives:
#- 
#- Traceback (most recent call last):
#-   File "/usr/local/scripts/sort_mp3s.py", line 68, in ?
#-     localSort(i, defaultSaveDir)
#-   File "/usr/local/scripts/sort_mp3s.py", line 34, in localSort
#-     os.rename(sFileName, dir + newName)
#- OSError: [Errno 18] Invalid cross-device link
#- 
#- ok, so that doesn't work.  is there another method?

What are the values of sFileName, dir, and newName (show them here not with
str() but with repr()).

Also, what happens if you try to move it with mv directly from the shell?

Regards,

.	Facundo
-------------- next part --------------
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From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct 13 14:53:40 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:53:40 -0700
Subject: String manipulation advice needed.
In-Reply-To: <CE90A4CF2E5E9C4890AE5D9D8A5EFAE3032CCC22@CINMLVEM10.e2k.ad.ge.com>
References: <CE90A4CF2E5E9C4890AE5D9D8A5EFAE3032CCC22@CINMLVEM10.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <20041013115221.0941.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> What is the easiest way of getting this information out of a string:
> 
> foo = "My number 70 is what I want to parse"  => 70
> foo = "My info {info} between the curly brackets is what I want to parse" => {info}
> foo = "My  info between [hello world] is what I want to parse" => [hello world]
> 
> At this moment my way to go is splitting the strings in substring, and do different checks on these substrings like:
> - try: int(substring)
> - substring.find('{') or substring.find('[')
> 
> Works but.. my guess is that it can be way more smarter, I must miss a strong library that can help me in simplifying the job.

Regular Expressions are your freind.  Take a peek at the re module.

 - Josiah



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Fri Oct 22 21:15:43 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:15:43 GMT
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
References: <mailman.5138.1098132727.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl2ldp$p5o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5179.1098204696.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.5184.1098208437.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl3mgv$i24$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1glx9uk.19y2l5yvlo403N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<UPfdd.4446$bV5.684@trndny07>
	<1glxgyr.d4rury1kve6fhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3hied.63$eU2.57@trndny05>

[Raymond Hettinger]
> > FWIW, I prefer loading the itertools recipes so I can write:
> >
> >      repeatfunc(random.random)
> >
> > IMO, that is plainer than both the iter() and starmap() versions.

[Alex Martelli]
> I agree, but I cannot distribute Python code containing that, since the
> itertools recipes aren't part of the stdlib.

Hogwash (see below).


--- in a separate note ---
[Robert Brewer]
> But in general, I don't write scripts for my own limited use;
> I'm writing frameworks, which shouldn't depend upon little
> recipes scattered hither and yon. :/

Double hogwash ;-)

Just paste the relevant recipe in your code and be done.  No need for code
scattered hither and yon.  Just apply a pre-made solution ready for re-use.

It is not a sin to write little helper functions to make the rest of your code
more readable.  Recipes are perfect for this use because they have been tested
and refined for generic re-use.

Since when did a design pattern or code technique have to be in the standard
library to be useful?


Raymond




From listserver at tdw.net  Thu Oct  7 06:14:18 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:14:18 +0100
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
References: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<864d37090410070250210881d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007801c4ac56$6873c900$ccbefea9@twilliams>

Can anyone suggest a way of capturing the output from smtplib's
set_debuglevel  into a list or dictionary  (or anything else I can work
with),   Preferably not to a file,  though if this is the only way,  then it
would be a start

I have googled.

TIA




From franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at  Fri Oct 22 04:54:36 2004
From: franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:54:36 +0200
Subject: excluding search string in regular expressions
References: <pc7fn0l6i0nso8onn0kh6gvt6o3sug4sd0@4ax.com>
	<417832d0.420416697@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <biihn0p8rfq21ir4en4iqcuhumehstcv1d@4ax.com>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:38:00 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>
>To look back a line, I think I'd just use a generator, and test current
>and last lines to get what I wanted. E.g., perhaps you can adapt this:
>(I am just going literally by
> """
> find only occurances, where in the line are'::' characters and
> the former line is not equal '**/'
> """
>which doesn't need a regex)
>
> >>> def findem(lineseq):
> ...    getline = iter(lineseq).next
> ...    curr = getline().rstrip()
> ...    while True:
> ...        last, curr = curr, getline().rstrip()
> ...        if '::' in curr and last != '**/': yield curr
> ...
>[...]
>
>Regards,
>Bengt Richter

Hello Bengt,

thank you for suggesting this interesting approach,

regards
-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Tue Oct  5 01:03:51 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 01:03:51 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <416223E6.9070008@cloudthunder.com>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162142c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4294.1096947568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162185c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4296.1096948074.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41621efc$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<416223E6.9070008@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <41622B37.2040803@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Richard Blackwood said unto the world upon 2004-10-05 00:32:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
>> On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> 
>> wrote:

<SNIP>

>>> Anyhow, I wasn't trying to muster up anything or annoy anyone.
>>> My sincere apologies to all who were offended.
>>>   
>>
>> Apology accepted on the condition that you read
>> how-to-ask-smart-questions, and go browse around
>> www.python.org for 15 minutes.
>>
>>
> I'll browse around python.org for a few hours instead of throwing in the 
> "how-to-ask-smart-questions" part.  ;-)

Wrong order of priorities, methinks. Browsing python.org will help you a
fair bit with python. Reading
<http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html> will help you learn
more about Python and any other thing one might ever post to a newsgroup
or mail-list about. From your various posts, it is clear that the
lessons of the second piece would be much more helpful to your future
projects than would be a browse of python.org.

Best,

Brian vdB




From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 26 08:21:32 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:21:32 -0700
Subject: RadioBox in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <417e0899@news.seeder.net>
References: <417e0899@news.seeder.net>
Message-ID: <1098793293.22370.252.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:19 +0800, Austin wrote:
> Every time i use wxRadioBox, it will show the box.
> I just want the options show on the panel. What could i do?

Don't use a wx.RadioBox.  The box is a feature of that control.  Instead
just use wx.RadioButtons and lay them out yourself in a wx.BoxSizer.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Wed Oct 13 17:55:37 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:55:37 +0100
Subject: differentially loading a class at runtime
In-Reply-To: <416da2bd$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <416da2bd$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <ckk891$m0n$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Maurice LING wrote:

> How can I differentially use the classes at runtime?

I'm not completely sure I understand what you want, but how about using 
a dict instead of a list:

 >>> class a: x = "foo"
...
 >>> class b: x = "bar"
...
 >>> allowed = dict(a=a, b=b)
 >>> aobj = allowed['a']()
 >>> aobj.x
'foo'
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 12:05:10 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 09:05:10 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
	<278de0e.0410102052.693297d7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410110805.67cd3fb4@posting.google.com>

luismg at gmx.net (Neuruss) wrote in message news:<278de0e.0410102052.693297d7 at posting.google.com>...
> > "Python-like" means very little. Make it run python code
> > then you'll see a lot more interest from this group.
> 
> I find it very interesting.

Me too, definitely 'python related'... I wish it well - but the huge
CLR runtime means it's unlikely that *I'll* be using it.

I wish that more was heard from projects like starkiller, PyPy and
Psyco. Pyrex seems to be going strong though.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Tue Oct 19 05:02:29 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:02:29 +0200
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
In-Reply-To: <1glwcx7.1ad9rc01yl5w0sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
	<ad180$416d49e3$51604868$18466@nf1.news-service-com>
	<ba129ce7.0410152212.3d124886@posting.google.com>
	<1glszmt.1r4o5td16zzgx1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ba129ce7.0410181328.507a91a4@posting.google.com>
	<1glwcx7.1ad9rc01yl5w0sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4174d660$0$4028$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Alex Martelli wrote:
[snip]
> (Corba specifies language bindings for a bazillion
> languages, but any given broker may not offer _all_, I believe...).

Just a precision to be sure no-one will be misunderstanding this: nothing 
prevents you to use different CORBA ORBs for your different languages. Since all 
ORBs use the same protocols and architecture, they interoperate quite gracefully.

I used once fnorb for Python (http://www.fnorb.org/) and JacORB for Java 
(http://www.jacorb.org/) and everything worked OK.

But of course, you may get some functions implemented in some ORBs, but not in 
other ones (e.g activation models...)

The OMG site has a good list of ORBs, free or commercial:
http://www.omg.org/technology/corba/corbadownloads.htm

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From a.a.kanare at swan.ac.uk  Tue Oct 19 05:20:02 2004
From: a.a.kanare at swan.ac.uk (abhay)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:20:02 +0100
Subject: Python Newbie
Message-ID: <cl2mdn$a6n$1@news.swman.net.uk>

I am confused between learning Python or learning Perl. Please any view,
opinions and suggestions are welcomed.

josh




From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 22 06:56:44 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:56:44 -0700
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1098442605.7440.22.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 23:03 -0700, Shufen wrote:
> Hi all, 
> 
> 
> Can someone who has use PHP before and know quite well about the
> language, tell me what are the stuffs that Python offers and PHP
> doesn't. A few examples will be nice. I know about the date format
> problem which PHP is having but I need more examples. Thank you for
> any help.

PHP and Python are both very dynamic languages.  I've used both pretty
heavily (although Python far more) and I'll make these observations:

On paper, PHP is pretty good.  In real life, the interpreter is badly
broken in many ways.  Much of this is supposedly fixed in PHP5 with the
new Zend engine, but that remains to be seen.  The object model in PHP4
barely works.  It doesn't support chained references (i.e. a->b->c
doesn't work) or doing things like utilizing the return value of an
expression or function call unless it's been assigned to a temporary
variable (i.e. a function foo() returning an array can't be used thusly
foo()[0].  Whether or not this is a bad thing is arguable, I'm merely
demonstrating the language's lack of a feature, or rather, lack of
generality).

PHP has some excellent libraries for web development.  In many ways this
makes up for the shortcomings in the language itself, since you can
quite often keep actual programming to a minumum.  I've seen nothing in
the Python world that compares to Smarty templates (and yes, I've
reviewed the many Python templating engines available.  To date I've
seen none that approach Smarty in actual
usability/readability/simplicity).

Outside of web development PHP makes little sense.  One of the silliest
abominations I've ever encountered is PL/PHP, a procedural language for
PostgreSQL.  The only thing arguably worse is PL/Perl. (Note: Luckily we
have PL/Python available <wink>).

Python, on the other hand, is a remarkable general purpose language (of
course you shouldn't be surprised to hear that here).  If PHP is the
best language for the web (due to its tight integration with the server
and its specialized libaries), then Python is the best language for
everything else, and a close second for best language for the web (and
I'm sure you'll hear arguments that it's the best in that category as
well).  

If you are strictly doing web development and are familiar with PHP,
then I feel you have nothing to lose (aside from gaining some broader
experience) with sticking with PHP.  If you plan to do anything else,
don't even consider it.  Use Python or some other general-purpose
language.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From xiarcel at optonline.net  Tue Oct 12 23:43:53 2004
From: xiarcel at optonline.net (David Scott Williams)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:43:53 -0400
Subject: Strange return value from os.system(...) call
Message-ID: <416CA479.9010707@optonline.net>

I have a shell script that exits out with either a 0 or 1...and am 
experiencing a strange phenomenon...

somevalue=os.system("/path/to/script")
print "somevalue:"+str(somevalue)

If my script exits with 0, somevalue is 0
...if it exits with 1, somevalue is 256


-- 
~David

"I drank what?!" -Socrates



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Oct  3 15:58:39 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 14:58:39 -0500
Subject: Banging wave files together (was Re: project)
In-Reply-To: <20041003181916.41184.qmail@web61302.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041003181916.41184.qmail@web61302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041003195838.GB4532@unpythonic.net>

Two parts of your problem are trivial (choose 10 items from 100 items;
compute all 3628800 permutations of 10 items) and two parts are a little
harder (user interface, and audio file reading/writing).  Finally,
depending on the length of the audio files and their format, you might
be surprised at the amount of storage required.  For instance, if each
audio file is a 10-second uncompressed .WAV file at something like 1.5
megabits per second (16-bit, stereo, 44100Hz sample rate), you're looking
at 6 terabytes of .WAV file as output.

Here's a commandline program that takes identical-format wav files on
the commandline and does what you ask for.  "-n" to change the number of
files in the permutation, "-p" to change the output file prefix.

import sys, random, wave, getopt, os

# Permute adapted from Python Cookbook recipe
# http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66463
def permute(alist, blist=[]):
    if not len(alist): yield blist[:]
    for i in range(len(alist)):
        blist.append(alist.pop(i))
        for j in permute(alist, blist):
            yield j
        alist.insert(i, blist.pop())

def fact(n):
    if n == 0: return 1
    return fact(n-1)

def concatenate(dest, src):
    o = wave.open(dest, "w")
    i = wave.open(src[0], "r")
    o.setparams(i.getparams())
    for s in src:
        i = wave.open(s, "r")
        while 1:
            frames = i.readframes(1000)
            if not frames: break
            o.writeframesraw(frames)
    o.close()

def main(args):
    n = 10
    p = "out_"
    opts, files = getopt.getopt(args, "n:p:")
    for k, v in opts:
        if k == "-n":
            n = int(v)
        elif k == "-p":
            p = v

    allfiles = sys.argv[1:]
    files = random.sample(files, n)
    fmt = "%s%%0%dd.wav" % (p, len(str(fact(n))))
    for i, p in enumerate(permute(files)):
        concatenate(fmt % i, p)
        print "%s: %s" % (fmt % i, [os.path.basename(f) for f in p])

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main(sys.argv[1:])
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From sw at wordtech-software.com  Sat Oct 23 22:42:35 2004
From: sw at wordtech-software.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:42:35 -0400
Subject: Eric3 3.5 crashes on file save
Message-ID: <wEEed.466$b%5.447@fe37.usenetserver.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Eric3, the PyQt IDE, seems to be buggy on Mac OS X. I'm running the
latest versions of PyQt, Qt, SIP, QScintilla, etc., but the new version
of Eric (3.5), which was just released this month, crashes whenever I
try to save a file. The previous version, 3.4.2, seems more stable.
Anyone else encounter crashes with the new version of Eric, whether it's
on OS X or another system?

- --
Kevin Walzer, PhD
WordTech Software--Open Source Applications and Packages for OS X
http://www.wordtech-software.com
http://www.smallbizmac.com
http://www.kevin-walzer.com
mailto:sw at wordtech-software.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBexaaJmdQs+6YVcoRAunOAJ9YCmXjRn75wOMpzFw1qaRouZgIOwCfbgHv
kAFiwoNXzdh6CUvBPxpilqU=
=LGPr
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From wweston at att.net  Tue Oct  5 12:26:23 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:26:23 GMT
Subject: convert scientific integer to normal integer
In-Reply-To: <2sfvipF1jt0aiU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <a2972632.0410050751.6b0b39d@posting.google.com>
	<yDz8d.667038$Gx4.100104@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<2sfvipF1jt0aiU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <PWz8d.667091$Gx4.400526@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Russell,
    Erm, yes; much better.
wes



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 09:02:27 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:02:27 -0300
Subject: Ergonomics (was Re: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <1097654015.10090.22.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <du7r7oa1dst.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<I4j9d.5365$UP1.2717@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<du7655lh914.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.4800.1097635300.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7r7o3ytii.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<1097654015.10090.22.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <864d370904101306021fa7ece4@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:53:35 -0700, Cliff Wells
<clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 10:19 +0300, Ville Vainio wrote:
> > >>>>> "Cliff" == Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> writes:
> >
> >     Cliff> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 12:08 +0300, Ville Vainio wrote:
> >
> >     >> Incidentally, I've remapped my keyboard so that ( and ) don't
> >     >> require pressing shift.
> >
> >     Cliff> *smacks forehead and cries*
> >
> > Why? Ergonomics is a matter that is taken into account way too rarely,
> > just observe how frequently programmers complain about RSI these
> > days. Python is pretty ergonomic for the most part (not too much
> > punctuation, popular habit of preferring lowercase letters) but it's
> > often a good idea to go for a little extra edge :).
> 
> I'm crying because I've been hitting shift 8000 times a day for 20 years
> when such a simple solution was right in front of my face :P

Totally off topic -- if you were to design a new keyboard, where do
you would put the parenthesis? After reading that I was wondering
about what is the best choice:

1) put each parenthesis on one side of the keyboard (open in the left
hand, close in the right hand);

2) keep both parenthesis on the right side of the keyboard, where
there are a few spare keys, _including_ the ones for square brackets
and regular brackets (I have a brazilian ABNT-2 keyboard);

3) design a new block of keys, similar to the (Insert/Delete,
Home/End, PgUp/PgDn) block, with quick punctuation symbols --
parenthesis, brackets, square brackets, angle brackets, slashes
(forward and back), hyphen+underline, and similar pairings. A vertical
block of keys, with two columns, five rows -- it's enough for most
pairings without a shift key.

_If_ I was to design my own keyboard, I would probably keep it Qwerty
(already used to it, and also, changing it makes difficult to use
anything else); but I would probably implement option (3) for
frequently used symbols.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 17:49:00 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 14:49:00 -0700
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<-JSdna307N6Pqe7cRVn-qQ@giganews.com>
	<1c339f13.0410181021.4041daa2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410181349.546b6b38@posting.google.com>

mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside) wrote in message news:<1c339f13.0410181021.4041daa2 at posting.google.com>...
[snip..]

> 
> Anyway... I certainly think that the matter is less than clear-cut, but
> in my opinion, this is one of those areas where it's worth having a
> little well-bounded "magic" to make the code that much more readable.
> 
> -- Michael Chermside

Of course the good thing about python is that doing both is easy.
Using __setattr__ and sublassing dict will provide both methods with
minimal fuss.

I subclass caselessDict to get a case insensitive dictionary access -
but have been thinking about adding attributes - with a little magic
to avoid overriding any existing methods/attributes. (Just do a
dir(config) on an empty config object and that is the list of reserved
names...)

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From oliver.eichler at dspsolutions.de  Wed Oct 13 03:39:44 2004
From: oliver.eichler at dspsolutions.de (Oliver Eichler)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:39:44 +0200
Subject: Embedding: Howto get object's dictonary
References: <ckik0p$hmi$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4813.1097652206.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckim40$o9n$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Oliver Eichler wrote:
> 
>> having a PyObject pointer to a python object, how can I get the object's
>> dictionary, if there is any. There seems to be _PyObject_GetDictPtr() but
>> this looks quite like a internal "you must not use it".
> 
> I'd say it's more of an "be very careful", along the lines of
> _PyString_Resize, _PyTuple_Resize, and other functions that can cause all
> sorts of trouble if you use them carelessly.
> 
> (note btw that the function returns a pointer to the dictionary pointer,
> not the dictionary itself)
> 
yep, I've noticed. Leaving me still with the uncertain feeling wether there
is a better way to get the dict, or not. I mean, why is there no
PyObject_GetDictPtr() returning a new or borrowed reference? Any other
reason than "Nobody did implement it, so far."?


Oliver
> </F>



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Thu Oct 28 14:16:43 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 18:16:43 GMT
Subject: python, mbox files and forwarding messages
References: <clm0ak$ne5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnco2do2.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:08:36 -0400, Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can Python parse a mbox file and forward each individual message within 
> that file to someone else?
> [...] Also, how might I handle messages that have an 
> attachment associated with them during the forward process?

By ignoring them. You don't have to be MIME-aware to forward a message, and
the mbox format(s) aren't MIME-aware either.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From andrea.valle at unito.it  Thu Oct 28 04:51:20 2004
From: andrea.valle at unito.it (andrea valle)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:51:20 +0200
Subject: TK: Ho to set window position
In-Reply-To: <cll8u5$dt9$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <3Gkdd.2134$Ag.1192@fe37.usenetserver.com>
	<2u5oqmF27qhb2U1@uni-berlin.de> <cll8u5$dt9$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <8A0C64DD-28BE-11D9-B60A-0003939C968C@unito.it>

Ok, I know it's basic, but I cannot find a reference...
How can I set the position on the screen of a frame in Tkinter?

Thanks a lot
-a-


Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facolt? di Scienze della Formazione
Universit? degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle at unito.it


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Oct 17 20:25:54 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:25:54 -0400
Subject: question on list comprehensions
References: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu><560b81a4.0410150936.573bb6c4@posting.google.com><1glsu7d.6cafdj1vxh4ebN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><4172e68d.73213084@news.oz.net>
	<1gltsqx.3sh0uedtr3f0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ckv2ie$vuo$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1gltsqx.3sh0uedtr3f0N%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> If I recall correctly, you can generally find closed-form solutions for
> summations of polynomials in i.

Yes, as with integrals, the sum of an nth degree poly is (n+1)th degree. 
The n+2 coefficients for the sum from 0 to k can be determined by actually 
summing the poly for each of 0 to n+1 and equating the n+2 partial sume to 
the result poly (with powers evaluated) to get n+2 equations in n+2 
unknowns.  Even with integral coefficients in the poly to be summed, the 
coefficients are generally non-integral rationals and can get pretty nasty 
to calculate, so for exact results, it may well be easier and faster to 
write and run a program.

Terry J. Reedy





From andrew.stuart at xse.com.au  Sat Oct 16 21:17:06 2004
From: andrew.stuart at xse.com.au (andrew blah)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 18:17:06 -0700
Subject: Secure Python code - volunteers for code review?
References: <1097637663.543580.126100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1097975826.343591.251920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Thank you all very much for your helpful comments.  I will take them
into account.

A few people credited me here with having written the code.  Kind - but
I'm the project lead - not the person who wrote the code.  The code was
written by Mark Hammond - that would explain why it is well written.

Thanks again to all for the comments and guidance - most helpful.
Regards

Andrew Stuart



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sat Oct 23 05:22:08 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 02:22:08 -0700
Subject: wxIEHTML
In-Reply-To: <20041023002214.29660.00006347@mb-m16.aol.com>
References: <20041023002214.29660.00006347@mb-m16.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1098523329.4059.26.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Sat, 2004-10-23 at 04:22 +0000, LutherRevisited wrote:
> I know I asked this question before about wxhtml windows(thanks for the
> answer), now I'm wanting links to open up in my default browser when I click on
> them from a wxIE window.  I realize that all I have to do is right-click on the
> link and just open it in a separate window, but in the interests of
> completeness, if anybody can tell me how this can be done I'd be grateful.

I don't think there's any way to intercept clicking links using the
embedded IE browser.  You can check the source file for the module to
get an overview of what you can do.

Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From claird at lairds.us  Sun Oct  3 22:08:04 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 02:08:04 GMT
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <mailman.4227.1096839829.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fu-dnW0ayarAGf3cRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
	<a321m0ptb8j9rfq01mrd5pn9vg791njquf@4ax.com>
	<opmdnfljLrvGPf3cRVn-qQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <42l632-22p.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <opmdnfljLrvGPf3cRVn-qQ at powergate.ca>,
Peter L Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Andrea Griffini wrote:
>> The only thing that scares me a bit about using python
>> is that industrial control is (at least for the part
>> I'm seeing for my job) terribly closed-source.
>> I see for example that its very very common to use
>> even hardware locks for the software.
>
>That's true, and sadly so.  It's also one of the things
>which Cameron and I and others are keen to see change,
>and which change we believe would have a significant
>and positive impact on the industry in a variety of ways.
>
>Having companies always rewrite their own copy of something
>from scratch is a stupid, stupid way to do business, when
>their business is not supposed to be writing drivers for
>obscure pieces of hardware.
>
>Having those companies wake up and smell the coffee --
>which in this case is their competition, companies like
>mine, which are accelerating many times over their
>productivity by using modern tools and techniques
>and by *sharing* non-core stuff -- is one of the goals
>we've been talking about here.
			.
		[more of the same]
			.
			.
Peter does a fine job of speaking for both of us.  On the 
off chance that my words will be meaningful to a few readers 
his haven't already reached, I'll say this for myself:

I recognize that our approach is surprising and even alarming
to many in process control.  I'm cranky enough to think that
history's on my side, in this case:  eventually it'll be ac-
ceptable for process control vendors and customers to act
rationally (in a technical sense I claim I can make explicit),
rather than in their anachronistically territorial current
habits.  Rather than worry much about how to get there, I'm
just going to act as though high productivity and high
reliability are as important to others as they are to me.  I
leave it to others to figure out what laws and licenses will
make sense of all this.

Wake up enough, and you can smell the roses, too.


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Thu Oct  7 14:27:37 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:27:37 +0200
Subject: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4521.1097173249.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>	<DaKdnbgpTNU0gvjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4521.1097173249.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41658a97$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Brian van den Broek wrote:

> So, the docs don't seem entirely up to date nor consistent. But I'm 
> working on working it out. (If I don't get it soon, time to go bug the 
> moin-moin people.)

You'll get answers fast on IRC (#moin on freenode), in my experience.

--Irmen


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 26 09:51:19 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:51:19 -0700
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
In-Reply-To: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
References: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
Message-ID: <1098798679.22370.313.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 13:40 +0000, Fred Pacquier wrote:

> I have a (very old, POP3) email address that's flooded with spam (about 
> 500 msgs per 24 hrs, no thanks to the ISP...) but that I still need to 
> use for various reasons. Of course it's unmanageable without some sort of 
> bayesian spam filter.

> One possible solution I've been mulling over, and looking for, would be 
> some sort of selective, on-line filter/downloader. I have an always-on, 
> Linux box at home on a decent DSL line ; on this I could have a daemon to 
> frequently poll that POP3 address, pulling only the headers (or maybe the 
> first body KB or so) and running those through a bayesian filter. If a 
> message comes out "clean" it is left on the server (so I can access it 
> from wherever I am), if it doesn't it is downloaded to a local mbox and 
> removed from the server (like getmail.py does) so I can still dig out the 
> occasional false positive when I'm home...

Rather that doing that, you might consider simply setting up a local
IMAP server on your Linux box.  Have a program (such as fetchmail) pull
down your POP3 email, filter it using procmail and feed it into the IMAP
server so that you can then access it from anywhere.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From richardshea at despammed.com  Sun Oct 10 23:11:46 2004
From: richardshea at despammed.com (Richard Shea)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 20:11:46 -0700
Subject: 2D height map to 3D model?
References: <skfgm0pev6ld2p6k7n2e9q1tt442kselh9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <d2a3bd.0410101911.4dd9a7e9@posting.google.com>

Hi Phil - You don't seem to be getting much in the way of replies so I
thought I would put my 2 cents in ...

PhilC <pcooke at philc.net> wrote in message news:<skfgm0pev6ld2p6k7n2e9q1tt442kselh9 at 4ax.com>...
> Hi Folks,
> 
> I'm looking to write a Python script that will take a 2D BMP (or
> height map) and translate it into a 3D model in OBJ format.
> 

I think you're saying that your input data would be a 2-dimensional
array each element of which would indicate an height above sea level
for that X,Y coordinate (the more I read your original question the
more I doubt my assumption but here goes anyway).

Firstly if you can mangle your data into some format which would be
acceptable as format I suspect that this ...

http://thuban.intevation.org/

... might do that job.

Assuming that you can't do the mangling (I know I couldn't) have you
seen this ...

http://mayavi.sourceforge.net/

... and as an instance of the output you might get, this ...

http://mayavi.sourceforge.net/docs/guide/c919.html#VIZ-DATA

Another option I came across was this ...

http://www.johnny-lin.com/py_pkgs/IaGraph/Doc/manual.html#contour

... I suspect however that you wanted some output that looked, however
roughly, like an aerial photograph - would be interested to know. I
live in a hilly, rather attractive city and have long wondered about
the possibility of being able to build a model of the land in
software.

Sorry this isn't more help. Maybe you could expand on your needs a
little ?

regards

Richard Shea.




> Something of a challenge for me but if it were easy life would be
> boring :)
> 
> Does anyone know if such a script already exists?
> Or any pointers would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> PhilC


From xavier_onasis at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 17 20:11:25 2004
From: xavier_onasis at hotmail.com (Kotlin Sam)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:11:25 -0400
Subject: UNIX-style sort in Python?
Message-ID: <I-6dnfLpv8Gzl-7cRVn-sw@comcast.com>

For a while at least I have to work in Windows rather than UNIX, which 
is more familiar. I'm trying to do with Python some of the things that 
I've done for years in shell, in particular, sort. The shell sort is 
pretty easy to use:
   % sort -t, +2 +5 imputfilename <return>

   where -t is the field separator, in this case a comma, , and +2 and 
+4 are the fields to be sorted, in that order. Actually, the fields are 
zero-based, so the first and third fields would be the sorted.

   So, is there a module or function already available that does this?

Lance



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 26 16:24:11 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:24:11 -0400
Subject: Win32+Zope+Python+Databases: What are my options?
In-Reply-To: <jZxfd.1119$mm6.1114@amstwist00>
References: <jZxfd.1119$mm6.1114@amstwist00>
Message-ID: <v82dnbiwouf3L-PcRVn-1Q@powergate.ca>

Carl wrote:
> Using COM and ADO on Win32, it is very easy to access databases (eg MySql,
> MS SQL Server, etc) from Python.
> 
> Does anybody know if it is possible to access databases from Zope (which is
> written in Python) using COM and ADO? 

Do you mean "Does Zope have built-in support for this?"
or "Does such a facility already exist for Zope?" or something else?

Because if, as you note, Zope is written in Python, then it
should be reasonably obvious that you can write a Zope
extensions/script/product which will do exactly what you need,
if one doesn't already exist.

By the way, Python has a "DB API", which pair of acronyms may help
direct your web searches for a solution...

-Peter


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Oct 17 21:35:54 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:35:54 -0500
Subject: why doesn't this filter the warning?
In-Reply-To: <vv56n0laacck5ab91bvvcti2jvjkb3b7g7@4ax.com>
References: <vv56n0laacck5ab91bvvcti2jvjkb3b7g7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20041018013553.GA2615@unpythonic.net>

On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 06:18:06PM -0700, Terry Carroll wrote:
> Why won't the filterwarnings call suppress this?

The warning is produced at the time the code is *parsed*, not when it is
*executed*.  You could suppress the warning in an imported module by
putting the suppression above the import of the problem module, for
instance.

This use of 'compile' to produce a code object which is subsequently
called demonstrates the point:
>>> c = compile("0xffffffff", "<string>", "eval")
<string>:0: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
>>> eval(c)
-1

Or, without using weird functions not used from day to day, so does
this:
>>> def f(): return 0xffffffff
<stdin>:1: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
>>> f()
-1

Jeff
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From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Tue Oct 12 11:09:55 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:09:55 +0200
Subject: help with excel
In-Reply-To: <01a801c4b06c$141ba890$0564a8c0@corp.NetworkOperator.com>
References: <01a801c4b06c$141ba890$0564a8c0@corp.NetworkOperator.com>
Message-ID: <416BF3C3.9090201@cenix-bioscience.com>

Clayton Hablinski wrote:

> The script needs to analyze cell B2 through cell B51290 (the entire 
> range). And then for each cell it analyzes put either ".0029" or 
> ".0042" in column 8.

Wouldn't this be much easier (and faster) using an Excel formula?  Or is 
there some reason you need to use Python for this?  Perhaps the analysis 
phase is much more complex then you are showing in your post?

Aaron



From jerf at jerf.org  Mon Oct 18 17:06:27 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:06:27 GMT
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.18.17.05.45.223474@jerf.org>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:30:54 +0000, Riccardo Rossi wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> How does Python pass arguments to a function? By value or by reference?

Summarizing all of the arguments, it is "Pass by reference, by value".

The functions receive copies of the references, but the function receives
a new reference by value, not "the same reference" as it is in C++. 

def something(a):
    a = 11

immediately discards the passed-in reference with no affect on the caller.

This is never correct in Python:

somefunction() = "some value"

This is sort of "because" of the way Python bind names, and in another
sense, is the *cause* of the Python name binding behavior :-)


From Lazareth at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 02:07:26 2004
From: Lazareth at gmail.com (Lazareth S. Link)
Date: 30 Sep 2004 23:07:26 -0700
Subject: New to python, baffled by program output
References: <d866d394.0409301115.76cdbb5@posting.google.com>
	<61ool05pvjplb3tfe2efefdif4si9fbmaa@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <d866d394.0409302207.3a6bf385@posting.google.com>

Fuzzyman <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<61ool05pvjplb3tfe2efefdif4si9fbmaa at 4ax.com>...
> This is your problem.
> You're telling python to print the resultof the function options()
> When called options prints the options - but it doesn't have an
> explicit return value. This means that it returns None when it has
> finished and python duly prints that for you.
> 
> Replace 'print options()' with just 'options()' which will just call
> the options procedure without expecting a return value.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Fuzzy

Doh, soo simple, thanks alot Fuzzy =D
I should be more observant in the future.


From theller at python.net  Thu Oct 28 14:38:35 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:38:35 +0200
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
Message-ID: <k6ta3cyc.fsf@python.net>

ctypes 0.9.2 released - Oct 28, 2004
====================================

Overview

    ctypes is a ffi (Foreign Function Interface) package for Python
    2.3 and higher.

    ctypes allows to call functions exposed from dlls/shared libraries
    and has extensive facilities to create, access and manipulate
    simple and complicated C data types in Python - in other words:
    wrap libraries in pure Python.  It is even possible to implement C
    callback functions in pure Python.

    ctypes runs on Windows, MacOS X, Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD, OpenBSD.
    It may also run on other systems, provided that libffi supports
    this platform.

    On windows, ctypes contains a ctypes.com package which allows to
    call and implement custom COM interfaces.

Important

    If you download the source distribution, please choose the ZIP
    file for Windows, and the .tar.gz file for other systems.
    These archive have different contents!

Changes in 0.9.2

    Fixed several bugs and memory leaks.

    ctypes is now tested on Windows, Linux (x86 and x86_64), OpenBSD
    and Mac OS X.

    Implemented some helper functions: memmove, memset, string_at, wstring_at.
    The former act as their C library counterpart, the latter two allow
    to read a zero-terminated (wide) strings at a certain address.

    Implemented a cast(cobj, ctype) function, which creates a new object
    of the specified ctype from an existing object.

    ctypes now explicitely allocates executable memory for the callbacks
    it creates, this makes it work correctly on platforms where
    executing data is normally forbidden (OpenBSD, Win XP SP2 on AMD 64).

    Fixed the unicode handling on non-windows platforms.

    Bit fields in structures and unions are now implemented.
    For a bit field, one would specify the width in bits as the third
    part in the _fields_ list like this:

	class BitFieldSample(Structure):
	    _fields_ = [("anInt", c_int),
			("aBitField", c_int, 3)]

    POINTER(None) now returns c_void_p.  This change was made for easier
    code generation, and makes sense since 'None' is the ctypes way to
    spell 'void'.


    Detailed changelogs are in CVS:
    
    <http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/ctypes/ctypes/ChangeLog?rev=HEAD>

    <http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/ctypes/ctypes/win32/com/ChangeLog?rev=HEAD>


Future plans

    The ultimate purpose of the 0.9 release series is to shake out the
    remaining bugs, especially on platforms I have no access to, and
    to target a rock stable ctypes 1.0 release.

    When ctypes 1.0 is released, the com framework will be split off
    into a separate framework named 'comtypes'.


Download

    Downloads are available in the sourceforge files section
    <http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=71702>

    Separate source distributions are available for windows and non-windows systems.
    Please use the .zip file for Windows (it contains the ctypes.com framework),
    and use the .tar.gz file for non-Windows systems (it contains the
    complete cross-platform libffi sources).

    Binary windows installers, which contain compiled extension
    modules, are also available, be sure to download the correct one
    for the Python version you are using.


Homepage

    <http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/>

Enjoy,

Thomas



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct  2 22:50:49 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 22:50:49 -0400
Subject: python vs c#
In-Reply-To: <slrncludlu.n81.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
	<slrncludlu.n81.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <415F6909.1060603@holdenweb.com>

Sam Holden wrote:

[...]
> Why is a village fundamentally different from a company, hotel, or magazine?
> 

Because they aren't missing their idiots?

regards
  Steve


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Thu Oct  7 10:53:46 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:53:46 -0400
Subject: [OT] New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <1gla5gn.1xzj7sjnweyetN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <40E605146701DE428FAF21286A97D3091744C6@wphexa02.corp.lh.int>	<4162B7FD.9080702@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4339.1096988358.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gla5gn.1xzj7sjnweyetN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4165587A.5090807@cloudthunder.com>

Oh no, I thought I wrote that accident.  I don't like any brackets or 
else.  I like to write:   foo x, y   or    foo: x,y
I prefer the latter actually.

>hmmm, closest I can come is...:
>
>class MakeEugeniHappy(object):
>    def __init__(self, f):
>        self.f = f
>    def __getitem__(self, args):
>        if isinstance(args, tuple): return self.f(*args)
>        else: return self.f(args)
>
>@ MakeEugeniHappy
>def f(x): return x*3+1
>
>Now, 'print f[23]' emits 70.  No way to call functions without
>arguments, and a bit of a mess to call one with an argument that's a
>tuple (I decided f[1,2,3] had better map to the original f(1,2,3) -- so
>to call the original f((1,2,3)) you need f[(1,2,3),] ...!-).  One way
>around the "call without arguments" would be to check if
>isinstance(args, slice) and specialcase slices with None for all
>attributes, so f[:] would call the original f().
>  
>
Are you saying that if I have only one argument then I may drop the 
parenthesis? Naw, your not saying that.


From paul at prescod.net  Mon Oct  4 17:39:17 2004
From: paul at prescod.net (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:39:17 -0700
Subject: [VanPyz] Vancouver Python/Zope: Extreme Graph Programming in
 Python
In-Reply-To: <4161C07A.80200@prescod.net>
References: <4161C07A.80200@prescod.net>
Message-ID: <4161C305.4040605@prescod.net>

Details about our monthly meetings are available here:

http://www.vanpyz.org/news

  Paul Prescod


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Tue Oct 19 04:04:23 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:04:23 +0100
Subject: How can I do French and English Spell Checking using MS Word 
	from Python
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B26@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Peter Maximus]
| I want to use the MS Word spell checker from my Python 
| program. I check the
| spelling a word at a time. It works fine for English but I 
| can not force it
| to use French when I am using that language.
| 
| The French spell checking works find when done directly in 
| the Word window.
| I have the automatic language detection turned off, the 
| language set to
| French, and keyboard set to French

Nothing immediate, although I have used COM-automation to
do (default=English) spell-checking. I'm not overly familiar
with the ways in which Word determines the language to use
for spell-checking. Can you explain what you do to have
"the language set to French"? (I doubt the keyboard setting
makes any difference).

A usually useful approach in working through Microsoft Office
issues is to record the same command within Word as a macro
and then to see what VBA code it generates. This can sometimes
give a clue as to the (often undocumented) steps you have to
go through to make something happen the way you want.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
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From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Tue Oct 26 03:45:15 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:45:15 +0100
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <clkvab$1dc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

kartik wrote:

> i suggest u base your comments on real code, rather than reasoning in
> an abstract manner from your ivory tower.

Could someone please help me with a related question? Why do I have the 
unmistakable feeling that this is a troll? Is it the misspellings? The 
gratuitous sniping? Or the OP's suggestions to provide "real code" when 
he has not done the same?
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Tue Oct  5 02:35:09 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 08:35:09 +0200
Subject: Manipulate HTML documents via data structure
Message-ID: <4162409D.3070507@sjsoft.com>

C. Barnes wrote:
> Python provides HTML parsing through the
> HTMLParser and htmllib modules.
> 
> For my application, I needed to search through
> an HTML document in a nonlinear fashion and
> dynamically change parts of the document.  The
> most logical way to do this is to translate HTML
> back and forth to a data structure.
> 
> I wrote a module called htmldata, available from:
> 
> http://oregonstate.edu/~barnesc/htmldata/

Just wondering if you've seen BeautifulSoup?
It seems quite similar to what you're doing although I haven't looked in 
detail...
http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/

David


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Mon Oct 11 14:20:17 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:20:17 GMT
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <slrncmlf0n.v83.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncmlf0n.v83.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <B9Aad.35631$N45.1010099@twister2.libero.it>

Dave Benjamin ha scritto:

> Since enough time has gone by since I last whined, let me just take this
> opportunity to say, in a completely calm, diplomatic, and
> non-confrontational way: "Ruby-style code blocks would be nice."
> 
>  (o) Don't beg for code blocks again today
>  ( ) Don't beg for code blocks again in the next three days
>  ( ) Don't beg for code blocks again in the next week
> 
>                                                      [ OK ]

do a b:
       indentblock

would be uber cool, imho.


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 11:15:42 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:15:42 -0400
Subject: [OT] New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <02be01c4aaec$12c7bc20$b0fcd0c3@cooler>
References: <40E605146701DE428FAF21286A97D3091744C6@wphexa02.corp.lh.int>
	<4162B7FD.9080702@cloudthunder.com>
	<02be01c4aaec$12c7bc20$b0fcd0c3@cooler>
Message-ID: <4162BA9E.8020703@cloudthunder.com>

Eugeni Doljenko wrote:

>>> You're kidding, right. Right ? Without brackets ? That's... that's just
>>> not possible is it ?
>>
>> In certain languages it is.  I think Lua lets you do it but more 
>> certainly I know Ruby does.
>
> I'd love language that will let me call functions with square 
> brackets. square brackets are so sweet.
>
> seriously, Ruby is syntactical madness.
>
>
I'm not preaching Ruby or madness.  But Ruby does let you go without the 
parenthesis when calling a function as long as the argument is a string 
I think is the rule.  Ruby isn't quite so pretty as Python I would agree.


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Fri Oct 15 16:18:50 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:18:50 -0400
Subject: checking available system memory?
References: <ckpa75$muv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <qnkpt3jg2fp.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> writes:

> I am doing linear algebra with large numarray. It is very efficient, but I
> have a small problem due to the size of my data. The dot product of a
> 10,000x3 double array with a 3x6,250,000 double array will consume 500GB of
> memory. I need to break the operations up into managable chunks, so I dont
> consume all the available memory and get a segmentation fault.
>
> Its not a problem with numpy, I just need to intelligently slice up one of
> my arrays so my routine works within the available system resources. Are
> there any utilities that can query how much memory is available?

Not really, it tends to quite operating-system specific.

Instead of saying "What's the largest chunk I can do at a time", how
about "What's the smallest chunk, where bigger chunks won't get me
much?". If you operate on chunks that are on the order of the cache
size of the processor, that's probably sufficient.

Also, if you're using numarray.dot, note that it doesn't use BLAS (yet), so
it's not as efficient as it could be if it used it (through ATLAS, for
instance).

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Fri Oct  1 18:15:02 2004
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (andy)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 23:15:02 +0100
Subject: Help required with mod_python and apache virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <415cc6a2$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
References: <mailman.4154.1096582389.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415cc6a2$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <1096668902.3190.284.camel@gibson>

On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 03:53, Michael Fuhr wrote:
> andy <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> writes:
> 
> > I'm trying to get mod_python working on my web server, but I'm running
> > into problems, possibly due to having virtual hosts configured.
> 
> What problems are you having?  What are you expecting to happen,
> and what is actually happening?  If there are warning or error
> messages, what are they?  What makes you think the problems might
> be related to virtual hosts?
> 
> -- 
> Michael Fuhr
> http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/

Thanks for replying, Michael.

Is it too simplistic to just say "it doesn't work" ?  As I said, Apache
is not one of my areas of expertise (yet!).  I have tried to configure
it according to the pycon 2004 "Introduction to mod_python" paper's
examples, but as the httpd.conf file is arranged as a common part and
then "includes" config files for each virtual host, I'm not sure I've
done it right.  First, I tried to configure it so I can put the python
scripts anywhere in the web-servers httpdoc tree, but that didn't work,
so I have now tried customising one of the include files, but that
doesn't work either.  This configuration scheme is dictated by my
hosting company, and whereas I *could* change it, I'd lose all hope of
support should I need it ;-) and the automated admin tool might stop
working, too. I can get away with altering parts of it, but not a
wholesale re-write (not that I'm capable of this anyway).

Here's the error I get in the browser:

"""
Object not found!

 The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL
manually please check your spelling and try again. 
If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster 

Error 404

www.fusionation.org 
 Thu 30 Sep 2004 11:03:23 PM BST 
 Apache/2.0.40 (Red Hat Linux) 
"""

The file in question *is* available, and readable by Apache (I've proven
this by simply renaming it with .html on the end - as expected, the
browser just shows the python source).

I can't think of what else to check.

Hope that gives you something to go on...

regards, 
-andyj



From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Fri Oct 29 14:35:28 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:35:28 +0200
Subject: Regex speed
In-Reply-To: <DfadnVRMd6PiFB_cRVn-gA@speakeasy.net>
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<DfadnVRMd6PiFB_cRVn-gA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <2ufgrhF29bb0jU1@uni-berlin.de>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:06:05 +0200, 
> 	Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
>> re1 = re.compile(r"\s*<.*>\s*")
>> re2 = re.compile(r".*\((.*)\).*")
>> re3 = re.compile(r'^"(.*)"$')
> 
> You should post the actual code, because these substitutions could be made
> more efficient.  For example, why are the bracketing \s* in re1 and the
> bracketing .* in re2 there?  re3 isn't using re.M, so it's equivalent 
> to 'if s.startswith('"') and s.endswith('"')'.

You're right. The sub calls are those:

    fro = re1.sub("", fro)
    fro = re2.sub(r"\1", fro)
    fro = re3.sub(r"\1", fro)

So at least the \s* are justified.

But my actual question is why Perl can run the same regexes in what
seems no time at all.

>> So my question is: Why is the re module implemented in pure Python?
>> Isn't it possible to integrate it into the core or rewrite it in C?
> 
> The regex engine *is* implemented in C; look at Modules/_sre.c.

But /usr/lib/python2.3/sre*.py are relatively large for that; what's in
there?

>> Is there a Python interface for the PCRE library out there?
> 
> PCRE was used from versions 1.5 up to 2.3; it'll be gone in Python 2.4.  You
> could try 'import pre' to use it, but I don't expect it to be significantly
> faster.

You're right again. Is the pre module using the PCRE C library?

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 16:38:40 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:38:40 +0200
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8dkd.1mk43di1xi6v0dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4418.1097061910.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8lg2.axf8gd9hwlbmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4426.1097075121.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8zqv.1dppy3q143owj6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4432.1097082864.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl974b.16udnxv178bw8qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4443.1097093424.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl9aq8.mfeskholayzlN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> > Nope, f doesn't get the bases AT ALL; the bases (as a tuple) go in only
> > when you call the metaclass.
> 
> Well. I was mistaken (and that's not be the first time). It goes like
> this; I first checked the dis.dis() code:
> 
>  27          64 LOAD_CONST               4 ('MyClass')
>              67 LOAD_NAME                7 (object)
>              70 BUILD_TUPLE              1
>              73 LOAD_CONST               5 (<code object MyClass at
> 0120A0A0, file "c:\work\help-on-c-l-py\re_exec_class.py", line 27>)
>              76 MAKE_FUNCTION            0
>              79 CALL_FUNCTION            0
>              82 BUILD_CLASS         
>              83 STORE_NAME               8 (MyClass)
> 
> ... with that build_tuple there... besides that I knew I *can* access
> the bases from within my class statement body:
> 
> class MyClass(MyBaseClass):
>     bar = MyBaseClass.foo
>  
> ... so I had suspected that the bases *were* passed to f(). But wait!
> Actually, Python is building the stack for the BUILD_CLASS opcode.
> Right?

Right.  When you mention MyBaseClass in the body, it gets looked up in
the globals, just where it was looked up when you passed it as a base.
The 0 in MAKE_FUNCTION _and_ CALL_FUNCTION opcodes refers to the number
of arguments to the function, btw...


Alex


From andrea.valle at unito.it  Fri Oct 29 12:31:02 2004
From: andrea.valle at unito.it (andrea valle)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:31:02 +0200
Subject: names of parameters as string
In-Reply-To: <85r4o09vlod3900cen8oaksdum7sgt26ee@4ax.com>
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
	<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>
	<m31xfh8uhy.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>
	<3A2774E4-29C3-11D9-AA85-0003939C968C@unito.it>
	<85r4o09vlod3900cen8oaksdum7sgt26ee@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ECA98BE9-29C7-11D9-AA85-0003939C968C@unito.it>

Richie thanks a lot, it works perfectly.
Anycase, I don't know exactly what's happening.
Could you be so kind to comment the code?
(or to point to some docs: I wasn't able to found the refercence. I 
found func_code before writing to the list, but not the method you 
invoke)

Best

-a-

On 29 Oct 2004, at 18:18, Richie Hindle wrote:

>
> [Andrea]
>> I'd like to access the parameter list of a function
>
> You can do it like this:
>
>>>> def foo(foo_param1, foo_param2):
> ...   foo_local = foo_param1
> ...
>>>> code = foo.func_code
>>>> print code.co_varnames[:code.co_argcount]
> ('foo_param1', 'foo_param2')
>
> -- 
> Richie Hindle
> richie at entrian.com
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
Andrea Valle
Laboratorio multimediale "G. Quazza"
Facolt? di Scienze della Formazione
Universit? degli Studi di Torino
andrea.valle at unito.it


_____________________________________________________________________
For your security, this mail has been scanned and protected by Inflex


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct  4 18:45:15 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:45:15 -0400
Subject: ActivePython/IIS Request Concurrency
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4266.1096914823.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4266.1096914823.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4sk8d.2955$TY2.2693@lakeread04>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> Erik Rose wrote:
> 
[...]
>>My stars! Could it be that pywin32 is sufficient to allow Python as a 
>>full-fledged ASP language? Is this how you're using it, i.e. not as a 
>>CGI or anything? If it works for you, I'm perfectly happy (ecstatic, 
>>actually) to match my setup to yours.
> 
> 
> It's sufficient. :) Check out
> http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/082201-1.shtml for a good intro to
> using pywin32 for ASP.
> 
> FWIW, I don't use ASP for anything more than an envelope for "real"
> Python scripts.

Since ASP is a mixed-language environment I tend to call Python 
functions from VBScript to do things that would be tedious in VBScript.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From spam at nospam.org  Wed Oct 27 17:59:34 2004
From: spam at nospam.org (Erik Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:59:34 -0600
Subject: using re.finditer()
References: <417fe88d$1@nntp.zianet.com> <418011f8$1@nntp.zianet.com>
	<clp4pj$2n2$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <418018cb$1@nntp.zianet.com>


"Peter Otten"  wrote in message news:clp4pj$2n2$01$1 at news.t-online.com...

> >>> re.findall(r"[.\n]", "\nx\n")
> ['\n', '\n']
> >>> re.findall(r"[.\n]", "\n.\n")
> ['\n', '.', '\n']
>
> It seems a dot inside [] means a dot rather than "any character".

DOH! That's right in the docs too. <blush>

[]
Used to indicate a set of characters. Characters can be listed individually,
or a range of characters can be indicated by giving two characters and
separating them by a "-". Special characters are not active inside sets. For
example, [akm$] will match any of the characters "a", "k", "m", or "$";
[a-z] will match any lowercase letter, and [a-zA-Z0-9] matches any letter or
digit. Character classes such as \w or \S (defined below) are also
acceptable inside a range. If you want to include a "]" or a "-" inside a
set, precede it with a backslash, or place it as the first character. The
pattern []] will match ']', for example.


Like I said, I'm learning. Nothing like experience! :)
Thanks for your help!

-ej




From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct 26 04:45:45 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:45:45 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <clkvab$1dc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<clkvab$1dc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Z8ofd.2777$kM.174@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Michael Hoffman wrote:
> Could someone please help me with a related question? Why do I have the 
> unmistakable feeling that this is a troll? Is it the misspellings? The 
> gratuitous sniping? Or the OP's suggestions to provide "real code" when 
> he has not done the same?

If you check the archives you'll see the OP's nym come up in two
other hits.  One for a proposal to gcc and another as a proposal to
OpenOffice.  Both of the sort "I think XYZ would be cool", both using
the poor syntax.

Neither show much troll-like behavior.

My guess is the not unusual case of someone who works mostly alone
and doesn't have much experience in diverse projects nor working
with more experience people.

I've seen some similar symptoms working with, for example,
undergraduate students who are hotshot programmers ... when
compared to other students in their non-CS department but not
when compared to, say, a CS student, much less a experienced
developer.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct  1 19:58:00 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 23:58:00 GMT
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cam7d.455$UP1.116@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> Personally, I suspect that the number of people who're running external 
> commands that are complex enough for these escaping issues to matter is 
> rather small.  The vast majority of uses of os.system() (IMHO) are very 
> simple cases with one or two simple arguments.

I end up making a lot of system() and popen*() calls.  Looking
through the 30 or so cases (our of about 6800 LOC) I see that most
of them use hard coded parameters that don't need escaping.
Some of them do you commands.mkarg (the only function I know of in the
standard library that does shell escaping).  Those are passed
user-defined filenames.

I would rather not assume the user knows enough to not pass
filenames with a " " or a ";".  Sounds like walking too shaky
a tightrope, and making the system open to subtle security
attacks.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sun Oct 24 23:39:53 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:39:53 -0700
Subject: wx position of items in list
In-Reply-To: <clgr8d$jrt$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <clgn8j$pu8$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<clgr8d$jrt$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1098675594.5693.74.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 19:13 +0100, M. Clift wrote:

>  I am getting the following error  regardless of whether I
> use a list or string,  'unsupported operand type(s) for //: 'str' and
> 'int''.  

That's because you're trying to divide i (a string) by an integer.

>         for i in text:
>             shape.pos = (145, 170 + (i//2)*100)
>             self.shapes.append(shape)

Try this instead:

for i in range(len(text)):
    shape.pos = (145, 170 + (i//2)*100)
    self.shapes.append(shape)

For future reference, try adding print statements when you get errors
like this so you can verify that you are doing what you think you are.
I'm assuming that you know you can't divide a string by an integer, so
my guess is that for some reason you thought that 'for i in text' would
give you a list of integers.  A quick 'print i' after the for statement
would have told you otherwise (as would have the Python tutorial had you
bothered to read it).

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From me at privacy.net  Sun Oct 17 06:29:44 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Tobias Pfeiffer)
Date: 17 Oct 2004 10:29:44 GMT
Subject: See when process exits in Windows XP
References: <cksmq8$c7$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <cksn6d$1b8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <2tevsnF1v2svmU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

On 17 Okt 2004, Brad Tilley wrote:

> def wait_for_ntbackup_to_exit(procname):
>      while True:
>          try:
>              pids = \
>              win32pdhutil.FindPerformanceAttributesByName(procname) 
>              if len(pids) > 0:
>                  ## If ntbackup is running, loop until it closes.
>                  print pids
>                  print len(pids)
>                  print "ntbackup is running... waiting for it to
>                  exit." continue
>              else:
>                  ## ntbackup is not running.
>                  break
>          except:
>              return

I have no clue about that win32pdhutil thingy but if it returns a list 
with pids, then why do you need the except statement? And it seems to me 
that this loops as fast as the CPU is able to, so it actually steals away 
other processe's CPU time. If you insert a time.sleep(0.5) statement (or 
something similar), you can decrease the CPU usage to a minimum.

Bye
Tobias

PS. Why not use a simple:

while win32pdhutil.FindPerformanceAttributesByName(procname):
    	print "still running"


-- 
please send any mail to botedesschattens(at)web(dot)de


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Mon Oct 25 17:56:48 2004
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:56:48 -0400
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d4101$0$45517$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.5434.1098721633.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4101$0$45517$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <2u5b57F26f1lbU1@uni-berlin.de>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> However, what if my code is shipped without the GPL'd code.
> What if I ship my souce (or a compiled module) alone.  Is it a
> derived work do solely to the fact that the user will at some
> point in the future use my my .pyc with a GPL'd module?

You might be technically right, but the wishes of the library's author 
should trump any legalisms which might allow you to violate the spirit 
of their license agreement.


From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct 12 10:08:05 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:08:05 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 11)
References: <mailman.4724.1097527415.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <i22t32-90i.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.4724.1097527415.5135.python-announce-list at python.org>,
Ville Vainio <python-list at python.org> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>    Global interpreter lock of CPython and multi-CPU scalability are
>    a recurrent theme in comp.lang.python. The current concern involves
>    the upcoming availability and popularity of multicore CPUs.
>       
>http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f40posting.google.com
			.
			.
			.
Something bad happened to that URL.  Please try
   http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=759a4fd598d5cb51
instead.  My apologies for the annoyance of a broken link.


From goodger at python.org  Sat Oct 16 13:59:58 2004
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:59:58 -0400
Subject: Python Library Reference is tutorial, not reference
In-Reply-To: <opsfy32lax6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>
References: <opsfy32lax6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <4171619E.6090003@python.org>

[aurora]
> Sometimes it is rather frustrated to use the Python Library Reference. 
> It seems each section is hand crafted and it is up to the author decide 
> the organization and coverage.
... many relevant examples omitted ...

You make some good points.  It's true that Python's documentation is
not perfect.

> Is Python going to adopt a more systematic organization of reference  
> materials,

Yes, if and only if someone puts in the effort.

Are you willing to do more than just complain?  If so, please choose a
chapter and produce a patch.  Assign it to me, and I'll make sure it
gets applied quickly -- if the patch is of good quality.  After a few
patches, I'll recommend to python-dev that you be granted direct CVS
access, which would make the process that much more efficient.

-- 
David Goodger <http://python.net/~goodger>
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From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Oct 11 23:30:40 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:30:40 +1300
Subject: End of file
In-Reply-To: <416a09c4.4267802054@news.oz.net>
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2sucjlF1p5plpU1@uni-berlin.de> <416a09c4.4267802054@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <2t11f5F1qmqlgU1@uni-berlin.de>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:22:28 +1300, Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>>That's not true -- you can also assign attributes to such
>>an object and use it as a record. (It's not a common use,
>>but it's a *possible* use!)
> 
> I originally thought that too, but (is this a 2.3.2 bug?):
> 
>  >>> obj = object()
>  >>> obj.x = 1
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  AttributeError: 'object' object has no attribute 'x'

I stand corrected! I had forgotten that instances of the
bare object class don't have a __dict__.

So it appears that sentinels are about the only practical
use for them.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From mickeyb at comcast.net  Mon Oct 11 08:18:50 2004
From: mickeyb at comcast.net (Mickey)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 05:18:50 -0700
Subject: EVIL AMERICAN GOVT (aka FBI) is full of SADISTS and PERVERTS
References: <11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <be74c859.0410110418.2852a021@posting.google.com>

vickyp679 at yahoo.com (vicky) wrote in message news:<11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0 at posting.google.com>...
> SUMMARY: 
> 
> THREE YEARS of and continuing MENTAL TORTURE, TERRORISM, SADISM and
> BLATANT human rights violations by FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS.
 
Now here is a nearly perfect example of someone who needs to STAY on their meds.

Mickey


From ville at spammers.com  Thu Oct 21 04:28:12 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 11:28:12 +0300
Subject: Method Underscores?
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<mailman.5249.1098340790.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cdJdd.5313$WN5.3726@trndny08>
Message-ID: <du7acuga31f.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Chris" == Chris S <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> writes:

    Chris> object.method() cannot exist side-by-side if need be. Using
    Chris> method(object) instead of object.method() is a throwback
    Chris> from Python's earlier non-object oriented days, and
    Chris> something which should be phased out by p3k. Personally,

One of the strengths of Python is the widespread pragmatic approach
towards OOP - not everything needs to implemented in a class, even if
everything is an object. I don't think there is a trend towards
replacing 'functional' stuff with more explicitly OO stuff either.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 19 13:40:50 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:40:50 -0700
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1098194866.552318.234710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.5153.1098150302.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1098194866.552318.234710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041019092604.0A65.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Heh.  "Large" depends on a lot of things, particularly connectedness,
> but I really can't picture 10k being large under any circumstances.

Ok, so what is large?  How many orders of magnitude larger than 10k
lines does it take for a piece of software to be large?  And why should
you be the judge?

I'd let it slip to medium, but I wouldn't say that the project was small. 
Small is something you can do in a weekend because you've been putting
it off.  Small is something a newb to the language can do in a week
while they are learning the language.

 - Josiah



From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Fri Oct 22 16:32:18 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 13:32:18 -0700
Subject: Method Underscores? (and a 'solution')
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298@jerf.org>
	<1gm17go.1r662ynelfha7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<pan.2004.10.21.20.08.48.57327@jerf.org>
	<1gm1um6.zgqbbe8x559fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4178F24C.5010004@holdenweb.com>
	<1gm2fs0.1wc9vf61okndnvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0410221232.532c01a0@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gm2fs0.1wc9vf61okndnvN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> > Yeah, it does have that Logo-like quality about it, doesn't it? For 
> > beginners, of course, it's typically more interesting to be able to 
> > write scripts to get their computers to do things they'd otherwise have
> > to do themselves, so AppleScript-for-Windows might be a good Python project!

Even better idea: just use Logo! :)

Seriously, the AppleScript language is no great shakes. The only
things going for it are that AppleScript code is easy for
non-programmers to read, and that it's got very good Apple Event
Manager and Open Scripting Architecture support built in. Then again,
AppleScript code is a right pain to write, and the only reason it
remains the popular choice for Mac application scripting is because
most every other scripting language has failed to provide AEM and OSA
support worth a damn. :(


> Yes, but mapping the simple "apple events" on which applescript is based
> (and which are widespread in applications as well as the OS on the Mac,
> e.g. MS Office apps implement them) to COM's richer and more complex
> ways (and COM/Automation enjoys a similar prominence on Windows and its
> applications) sounds like quite a task, requiring deep understanding of
> both platforms.  Maybe I'm being pessimistic...

Any fule could implement a clone of the AS _language_; there's
actually very little to it. Heck, you could probably write a parser
that compiles an AppleScript-like syntax into Python source code
fairly easily. It's the OSA component and IPC stuff that would take
time. The former you could probably do fairly easily using COM, but
for IPC support you'll find Windows' DCOM/WSH to be a VERY different
beast to Apple events, which is basically synchronous/asynchronous RPC
plus basic relational queries. This means that almost all the hard
work to support a _full_ AppleScript clone would be on the
application, not the language, side. Which means not only providing
application developers with suitable frameworks but also persuading
them to use them - no small task to say the least.

An application's Apple event interface is basically a whole additional
View-Controller layer - a peer to its GUI/CLI/web/etc. interface(s) -
built atop the Apple Event Manager/Cocoa Scripting framework, just as
its GUI interface is built with the Application Kit framework. And,
just as there's a whole bunch of rules and guidelines on how GUI
interfaces should look and behave, there's an equivalent for scripting
interface developers. e.g. See Apple's Scripting Interface Guidelines,
a partner to its GUI-oriented HIG,
at<http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/tn2106.html>.

It's deceptively powerful stuff, though a lot of applications don't
support it nearly as well as they could - or should (many of Apple's
own apps are guilty here). Mac Office apps aren't really a good
example - their Apple event interfaces are really just a thin wrapper
around their VB APIs and quite atypical. Take a look at something like
Adobe InDesign (one of their engineers is Jon Pugh, one of the
original Apple team behind OSA, etc.) - it has very comprehensive and
well designed AE interface, as well as JavaScript and VB APIs.


You probably could implement a Windows clone of the Apple Event
Manager using DCOM or whatever as your inter-process message transport
mechanism, but it looks as if Longhorn will have something fairly
similar to Apple events and the Apple Event Object Model with its
Indigo and OPath technologies, so probably not worth doing now. (Makes
you wonder what might've been had OpenDoc taken off though - it was
built on Apple events and, IIRC, intended to be cross-platform, and
years ahead of its time.)

Mind you, I've already implemented Python libraries for constructing
object specifier-based queries
<http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/appscript.html> and am
working on supporting the Apple Event Object Model in Python, so you
probably could port these to other systems just by replacing the
platform-specific Carbon.AE extensions used for the inter-process
messaging part with XML-RPC, dBus or whatever else is to hand.


Happy to discuss this stuff further if anyone's interested and wants
to take it to a separate thread.

has


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 30 10:58:27 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:58:27 -0700
Subject: Plugin system
In-Reply-To: <2uhla5F2ahviqU2@uni-berlin.de>
References: <41839c8b$0$78279$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<2uhla5F2ahviqU2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20041030075019.0C1C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
> 
> Irmen de Jong wrote:
> > Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> > 
> >> How would you implement a plugin system (for a web-based application)?
> > 
> > This is so general a question that I cannot think of anything concrete to answer.
> > Please ask again, with more detail about what you want/need/have in mind.
> 
> Okay, the question is too open: My focus is on how you would structure
> the plugin code (directories, files) and how you would write code to
> load these plugins.

...Have a place for plugins
app/plugins

...Load the plugins on startup
import traceback
import os
for fn in os.listdir('plugins'):
    if fn[:1] != '_' and fn.split('.')[-1] in ('py', 'pyw'):
        try:
            globals()[fn] = \
              __import__('plugins.%s'%fn, globals(), locals(), [fn])
        except:
            traceback.print_exc()

Etcetera.  May not be the best, but it will get the job done.

 - Josiah



From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct  8 04:18:39 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:18:39 +0100 
Subject: Quixote Question
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434AF2@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Fuzzyman]
| I think I am going to have a play with Quixote. I think I've finally
| got my head around what it can be useful for and there are definitely
| some parts of my site it will be helpful for. It still leaves the
| question of whether I'm able to install it on someone else's serevr
| without a shell account of course.....

As long as you have FTP access and the ability to specify a
PYTHONPATH somehow (eg via .htaccess on Apache), you just need 
to copy a quixote directory from your own machine: it's pure 
python (I think). I've done that on my cornerhost.com account 
without any problems.

You've probably sussed this already, but it's perfectly possible
to have most of your site static with dynamic parts serviced via
Quixote: just call them via your quixote_handler.cgi, possibly
hidden behind a rewrite to provide a more graceful URL.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________


From lcaamano at mindspring.com  Mon Oct 11 16:25:23 2004
From: lcaamano at mindspring.com (Luis P Caamano)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 13:25:23 -0700
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<ck3ls6$62e$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <9fc58c06.0410111225.5e6a1662@posting.google.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<ck3ls6$62e$1 at panix1.panix.com>...
> 
> One critical reason for the GIL is to support CPython's ability to call
> random C libraries with little effort.  Too many C libraries are not
> thread-safe, let alone thread-hot.  

Very true and I think that's one of the main reasons we still have the
GIL.

> Forcing libraries that wish to
> participate in threading to use Python's GIL-release mechanism is the
> only safe approach.

The ONLY one?  That's too strong a statement unless you qualify it. 
One problem is that CPython tries to make C library development as
easy as possible to the point of being condescending.  IOW, it seems
that CPython assumes that most C library writers are too stupid to
write thread-safe code.  However, one could say that if it had always
forced all C libraries to be written thread-safe from scratch, most
library developers would've practiced a lot by now.

Given enough time, familiarity is a good tool to tame apparently
complex issues.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple or maybe not even true.  I suspect
that the real reason C libraries are not required to be thread-safe is
that there's already too many C libraries out there that are NOT
thread safe and too many people think (arguably mistaken) that fixing
all those libaries to get rid of the GIL is not worth the trouble.

I speculate that the GIL "problem" might have grown to its current
state because CPython grew in parallel with thread programming. 
CPython existed way before Posix 1003c was ratified or even before we
had good pthread libraries.  In addition, CPython always wanted to be
OS agnostic.  In 1995, it would've been possible to write a
CPosixPython with full support for the Posix thread library with
support for all those cool things like CPU affinity, options for
kernel or user threads, thread cancellation, thread local storage,
etc. but it would not have worked on any OS that didn't have a good,
conformat pthreads library, which at that time were many.

Therefore, fixing the GIL was always in competition with existing code
and libraries, and it always lost because it was (and still is)
considered "not worth the effort."

If we were going to write a CPython interpreter today, it would be a
lot easier to write the interpreter loop and its data in a manner that
would maximize the use of threads because today thread support is
widely spread among supported OSes.

As a kernel developer and experience pthreads programmer, the first
time I saw CPython's main interpreter loop in ceval.c my jaw hit the
floor because I couldn't believe why anybody would write a threaded
interpreter that grabs ONE BIG mutex, runs 100 op codes (checkinterval
default), and then releases the mutex.  It took a while to finally
understand that the reason is not technical but mostly historical
(IMHO).

I've said it before.  One day enough people will think that the GIL is
a problem big enough to warrant a solution, e.g., when the majority of
systems where CPython runs have more than one CPU.  Until then we have
to go back to early 90s programming and use IPC (interprocess
communication) to scale applications that want to run PURE python code
on more than one CPU.  That's probably the main disagreement I have
with those that think that the GIL is not a big problem, IPC is not a
solution but a workaround.

This is not a Python unique problem either.  Most major UNIX OSes,
e.g., HPUX, Sun, AIX, etc. went through the same thing when adding
support for SMP in early through mid 90s.  And that was a bigger
problem that CPython's GIL because they had a lot drivers that were
not SMP safe.

I know the problem is complex and there are other non-technical issues
to consider.  However, and I don't mean to oversimplify, here are a
few ideas that might help with the GIL problem:

  - Detect multiple CPUs, if single CPU, do not lock globals.  That's
what some OSes do to avoid unnecessary SMP penalties on single CPU
systems.

  - Create python objects in thread local storage by default, which
don't need locking.

  - Rewrite the interpreter loop so that it doesn't grab a BIG lock,
unless configured to do so.

  - Let users lock, not the interpreter.  If you use threads and you
access global objects without locking, you might get undefined
behaviors, just like in C/C++.

  - Allow legacy behavior with a command line option to enable the GIL
and create global objects.  (or viceversa).

  - Require C libraries to tell the interpreter if they are thread
safe or not.  If they are not, the interpreter would not load them
unless running in legacy-mode.

  - Augment the posix module to include full support for the pthreads
library, e.g., thread cancellation, CPU affinity.


Of course, that's easier said than done and I'm not saying that it can
or should be done now.  The point is that getting rid of the GIL is
straightforward, it's been done before many times, but it will not
happen until it's widely viewed as a problem.

Unfortunately, those changes are big enough that I don't think they'll
happen under the CPython source tree even we all wanted them.  More
than likely it will require a separate project, PosixPython perhaps?

I hope one day I'll work for an employer that could afford to donate
some (or all) my time for python development so I could start working
on that.  Now, that would be cool.

With a <sigh> and a <wink>,

--
Luis P Caamano


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 26 12:37:27 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:37:27 -0700
Subject: comparing multiple copies of terrabytes of data?
In-Reply-To: <20041026080408.0B41.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <Y6adnT9_jr6Ny-PcRVn-hQ@giganews.com>
	<20041026080408.0B41.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041026093509.0B47.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

Obviously this was running old code as the following lines don't work...
>         digs.append(m.update(f1.read(b)).digest())
>         if dig != m.update(f2.read(b)).digest():
>         if dig != m.update(f3.read(b)).digest():

Those got split up into:
m.update(f1.read(b))
digs.append(m.digest())

m.update(f2.read(b))
if dig != m.digest():

m.update(f3.read(b))
if dig != m.digest():

respectively.  Gah, I don't like mornings.

 - Josiah



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 10:23:26 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 07:23:26 -0700
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
	<4165ad9a$0$44853$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410080623.6f88835a@posting.google.com>

[thanks but snip.. ;-) ]
> One alternative: (pseudocode)
> 
> Recieve request
> If no-cookie-received:
>    Set Cookie: "NEWUSER"
> else:
>    if cookie-recieved == "NEWUSER":
>       # We know they can send us cookies back
>       id = gen-id()
>       Set Cookie: id
> 

Yep.. this I understand and will try.
Thanks

> Then just log requests with the recieved cookie, trackable users will have
> a unique id, whether their IP changes, share a system, behind nat'ing
> firewalls etc. This allows you to track unique users that are trackable
> using cookies. If you have a particularly large number of users accessing
> your site you can tie in sampling (perhaps something like density biased
> sampling) in there as well something like this:
> 
> new-cookie = None
> If no-cookie-received:
>    new-cookie = "NEWUSER"
> else:
>    if cookie-recieved == "NEWUSER":
>       # We know they can send us cookies back
>       id = gen-id()
>       new-cookie = id
> 
> if add-to-sample-set(request):
>    tag = "SAMPLE"
>    new-cookie = current-cookie or new-cookie
> else:
>    tag = "NOSAMPLE"
> 
> if new-cookie:
>    Set Cookie: tag new-cookie
> 


Sorry... :-( don't get it.
What is add-to-sample-set(request) doing ? Is it simply choosing a
proportion of our users to sample ?

If this is only a 'do if you have too many users' kind-of-thing then
unfortunately it won't be a problem for me !!

> (Or something like that IYSWIM - ie get the user population to indicate if
> they're being sampled - again, this allows your users to easily opt out,

As above... I don't get it, so I don't see how it achieves this ?

> and also means the memory/etc required to determine whether to track the
> user or not isn't dependent on the number of requests your site gets -
> meaning that you can keep analysis costs for your site under control. If
> you've only got a small site this probably doesn't matter to you, but 
> worth bearing in mind).
> 
> The interesting thing about this from my perspective is that if you do 
> take a cookie approach like this, it actually allows you to figure out how
> much error there actually is between IP and cookie - rather than just guess.

One last question. You didn't explicitly say this, but I was thinking
of doing it anyway. Are you suggesting to store USERID *and* IP
address and compare the results of anylysing by IP and analysing by
cookie.... Sounds worthwhile...

Thanks for your help - very interesting.

Regards,

Fuzzy

> The other nicety is it allows your users to opt-out very easily - since they
> can either switch off cookies, or you can send them a "NOSAMPLE" cookie.
> 
> Also, at present comments in this thread revolve around "this isn't
> reliable because of x,y and z". If you take this sort of approach you
> can find out the margin of error and then decide whether you're happy
> with it or not. Also as you can see from above this doesn't really have
> to be a very complex operation (unless you're in a high volume scenario
> with lots of distinct users and need to add in the sampling aspect).
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> 
> Michael


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 00:41:56 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:41:56 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4303.1096948810.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4293.1096947506.5135.python-list@python.org>	<KUo8d.3033$UP1.1475@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4303.1096948810.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oCp8d.3160$M05.353@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> OK.  I idea was that someone who knew alot about one particular would 
> respond to that question, and other someone who knew alot about another 
> particular would respond to another question, and so forth.  A poor 
> idea?  Seeing the result, I guess so.  Sorry to have bothered anyone.

The reason it was poor idea was not considering that on
a project like Python with nearly 15 years of work behind
it, dozens of books, thousands of magazine articles,
millions of lines of code, etc. that those answers might
already have been collected into documentation and organized
in such a way that a person like you could find all those
answers, plus details you wouldn't get from such simple
questions, plus answers to questions you haven't even
thought of asking.

To follow up, now that someone answered all your questions
are you any more knowledgeable about Python?  I suspect
not because those answers don't hang together coherently
so you'll need to read the documentation anyway.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 10:49:15 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:49:15 -0300
Subject: reverse Jython
In-Reply-To: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <864d370904101907494b141860@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:48:56 GMT, Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for a suitable thesis topic, so I hope that I can gather
> some advice on this area that I'm thinking of.
> 
> Jython appears as a relatively successful attempt to bridge Python to
> Java and I find that the best part is that it can convert Python codes
> into Java codes. As said in the webpage, it is a python interpreter
> written in Java. I am wondering if it is worth reversing this, that is,
> a Java interpreter implemented in Python?
> 
> A Google search comes up with JPI and PyJava.
> 
> Is this still a viable area to look into or it is too done?

If you dont' _need_ to include Java in your thesis, why not help with
PyPy? It's the Python interpreter written in Python. It's regarded as
a important piece of software for experimentation with the Python
language itself. Give it a look:

http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?home

p.s. There is a rumour that the PyPy team secretly believes that they
can make it run *faster* than CPython. Does it makes it a good thesis?
;-)


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Oct  6 17:12:01 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:12:01 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <416426AE.5070803@fastmail.fm>
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>	<UWt8d.3156$UP1.2886@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4352.1096990836.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrfgcoa4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <416426AE.5070803@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <5D5C385C-17DC-11D9-8DFA-000A95909800@cern.ch>


On 6 Oct 2004, at 19:09, Arich Chanachai wrote:

>> You mean some refinement of this sort of thing:
>>
>>    class X(object):
>>           a = "lives in X"
>>           def __getattr__(self, name):
>>            return getattr(U,name)
>>       class U(object):
>>           b = "lives in Y"
>>       x = X()
>>    print x.a
>>    print x.b
>>
>> ?
>>
> Sure, but what if I dynamically (at runtime) extend X to include 
> variable b.  Will it then print X.b or still U.b?

Did you try it?

 >>> print x.b
lives in Y
 >>> X.b = "was added to X at runtime"
 >>> print x.b
was added to X at runtime
 >>>

__getattr__ only gets invoked if the attribute is not found in the 
instance, class and superclass dictionaries.



From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Wed Oct 13 04:53:43 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:53:43 GMT
Subject: Static typing in py [was Re: Some notes]
In-Reply-To: <du71xg314tr.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du71xg314tr.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <r26bd.38689$H11.1309666@twister1.libero.it>

Ville Vainio ha scritto:




>     Josiah> Keep wishing, but unless you implement it, I wouldn't get
>     Josiah> my hopes up.
> 
> Implementation can be trivial - the interpreter could just assert
> isinstance when check_type_declarations is true. The harder part is
> coming up with all the semantics.

On a related note: What is supposed to be a type in python?
Is it a class? is it an interface? is it an implementation detail? is it 
an algebraish definition?
I'd like to know what is the current 'mainstream' way of thinking about it.


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct  4 23:41:55 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 03:41:55 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<1001523104100420251887d96a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4292.1096946872.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41621803$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:

>>>Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following
>>>support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*
>>>
>>[items 2 through 45 mercifully omitted]
>>
>>Wow. Obsessive-compulsive trolling.
>>
> How is that trolling?

Because you're just trying to cause trouble and/or annoy
people.  Your post was _very_ rude and presumptuous in
demanding that other people do your homework/research for you.

Apparently you're too lazy to do any reading?  Don't know how
to run google?  How many friggin' guesses would it take you to
come up with www.python.org?

> I was just wondering if Python had the features I specified.
> Your statement confuses me.

All your questions are answered at http://www.python.org/.
There are a number excellent turorials and introductions.

Now, please wash my car, do my laundry, and make sure my
breakfast is waiting on the table for me tomorrow morning at
8:15AM.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I know how to get the
                                  at               hostesses released! Give
                               visi.com            them their own television
                                                   series!


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct  7 18:05:28 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:05:28 GMT
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <du7r7oa1dst.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<du7r7oa1dst.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <I4j9d.5365$UP1.2717@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Ville Vainio wrote:
> Abundant ! and ? characters in functions are a good reason to *avoid*
> Scheme. All that shift-pressing and noisy code doesn't suit my
> aesthetic sensibilities.

> mystruct.sortD()   # destructive
> 
> if symbolP(obj): ...       # predicate

But that means pressing the shift key for the 'D', '(', ')'
and 'P' characters.  You answer doesn't address your first
complaint.


Do you prefer Ruby's parens free call syntax?  Or is it
that from practice you no longer consider '(', ')' and ':'
to be noisy?


def symbolP x
   return x>0
end

if symbolP 5 then
   print "Positive!\n"
end

   contains less noise than

def symbolP(x):
   return x > 0

if symbolP(5):
   print "Positive!"


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From see at below.invalid  Mon Oct  4 22:11:42 2004
From: see at below.invalid (Paul Foley)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:11:42 +1300
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2mzz1rk0x.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:04:46 -0400, Arich Chanachai wrote:

> Not sure I understand you here.  I want to implement messages like in 
> ObjC where if you send a msg to an object and that object does know what 
> to do with it, it can send the obj automatically to another object which 
> might know what to do with it.

Write: object.message()


-- 
Malum est consilium quod mutari non potest             -- Publilius Syrus

(setq reply-to
  (concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(#\@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))


From adijkstra at baanders NOSPAM consultancy.nl  Tue Oct  5 04:32:24 2004
From: adijkstra at baanders NOSPAM consultancy.nl (duikboot)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:32:24 +0200
Subject: simple Tkinter Question
In-Reply-To: <416255b7$0$9479$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
References: <10m3uc176vc3697@corp.supernews.com>
	<41625058$0$8339$d4d0a361@news.speedlinq.nl>
	<416255b7$0$9479$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <41625bb9$0$8353$d4d0a361@news.speedlinq.nl>

Eric Brunel wrote:
> duikboot wrote:
> 
>> Maboroshi wrote:
>>
>>> Hi I was curious how I can pass arguments through a Tkinter Entry widget
>>>
>>> say I have an Entry widget and a Button widget I enter text into the 
>>> entry and now I want the button to process the text is there a 
>>> certain command I have to use to assign the button to the entry or 
>>> vise versa
>>>
>>> anyhelp appreciated
>>
>>
>>
>> Take a look at 
>> http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
>>
>> example
>>
>> from Tkinter import *
>>
>> def pr_text():
>>     text = entry.get()
>>     print text
>>
>> gui=Tk()
>> entry=Entry(gui)
>> entry.pack()
>> button=Button(gui, text="print", command=pr_text)
>> button.pack()
>>
>> gui.mainloop()
> 
> 
> If *that* is the actual problem, I'd use a Tkinter StringVariable to do 
> the job:
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> root = Tk()
> v = StringVar()
> Entry(root, textvariable=v).pack()
> def pr_text():
>   print v.get()
> Button(root, text='Print', command=pr_text).pack()
> root.mainloop()
> 
> Tkinter variables are a better choice because you often want to know 
> what *was* in your entry after it has been destroyed from the display. 
> In such a case, entry.get() will raise a TclError, because the entry no 
> more exists. If you use a variable, it will still be there after the 
> entry was destroyed, so you can still read its value.
> 
> HTH

You're absolutely right. It's better indeed.

-- 
http://www.baandersconsultancy.nl | http://www.nosonis.com


From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Tue Oct 19 05:33:28 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:33:28 +0200
Subject: Embedding Python in Windows tutorial?
In-Reply-To: <Pa4dd.15915$nj.2684@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
References: <Pa4dd.15915$nj.2684@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <cl2n18$ltg$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Roose wrote:

> 1. I heard Python23.dll is built with MS VC++ 6.  I am using .NET 2003 (VC++
> 7.1).  Is this a problem?  I wouldn't think so since I am not statically
> linking... but someone said the C runtime is different between the two?
> When would that be a problem?

- extensions compiled with .Net 2003 seem to run fine with Python 2.3
- I've heard that Python 2.4 will use .Net 2003 anyway

> 2.  Any sample VS.NET projects / boilerplate DLL code that loads
> Python23.dll into the?  Sure this is probably pretty simple -- add an
> include paths, add a DLL dependency... but I'm sure there is at least one
> gotcha and if I can avoid repeating other's mistakes, I'd prefer that.

If you use the normal Python API, you link with the import lib 
python23.lib, which will load python23.dll. If you put python23.dll into 
the same directory as your application, everything should be fine.

> 4.  The program in question has no installer -- it is an internal tool, and
> people simply download the binaries .exe/.dll's/etc. from a source control
> system.  Does that present any problems?  Is all they need is Python23.dll
> in their system dir, which is installed if you install Python?  But I am

I suggest that you distribute everything Python together with you 
application. I found that switching to a new Python version is a hassle 
when you have to tell everyone to do the upgrade.

- distribute python23.dll in the same directory as your application
- distribute the Python standard lib as a .zip archive
  -- use the script compileall.py to generate the .pyc files
     for the Python lib
  -- use the -d and -f options to set the source directory
     in the .pyc files. It is irritating if you get a Python traceback
     and the filenames look plausible, but don't exist. Something like
     "PYTHONROOT/os.py" makes it clear that the python files comes from
     the distribution.
  -- zip all the .pyc files into an archive (.py are optional)
  -- add that .zip file to your distribution
  -- add <python>/DLLs/zlib.pyd to your distribution (needed to import
     modules from .zip files)
  -- in your application: add that .zip file to the module search path,
     either by changing the environment variable PYTHONPATH or by
     manipulation sys.path through the Python API
  -- you can start simple by packing only the .py files. This will work,
     but it will be a bit slower as Python has to compile the files
     for every run of your application

If you distribute Python together with your application, you should 
occasionally test that you have everything included:
in the registry, rename 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/Software/Python/PythonCore/2.3. That way, your 
embedded Python won't be able to fall back on your installed Python.

> going to need to write some Python wrappers for functions... does this mean
> I need to use distutils and all that?  One thing I didn't find clear is that
> distutils will "install" a module on your own machine -- but what do you
> need to do to get it onto other's machines? (e.g. non-engineers who do not
> have compilers)

Your wrapper functions are part of your application. You make them known 
to the Python runtime during your application, so there is no need to 
install them via distutils.

 > One of my concerns now is that it will decrease the
> debuggability of the application.  In a pure C/C++ app in VS.NET, it is
> pretty simple to debug.  But now I will have a layer of Python in between,
> which could make it a big pain.  In general this is kind of an "extra"

You certainly shouldn't try to debug through the Python code. Set 
breakpoints on all your extension functions. Once you reached Python, 
use 'go' to go right through it.

You should also have the ability to report all exceptions in scripts 
complete with backtraces. This will help you now with debugging and 
later your customers with their own scripts.

Daniel


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Oct 12 04:15:21 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 08:15:21 GMT
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-10-11, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
> Clark C. Evans wrote:
>
>>On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 10:54:05AM -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
>>| 
>>| .... It 
>>| seems to me that the benefits of having lambda are outweighed by the 
>>| fair amount of extra mental space that they use up.  It just strikes me 
>>| as too much of a special case to deserve special syntax that has 
>>| absolutely no parallel elsewhere in Python.
>>
>>If you don't like lambda -- don't use it.   Just beacuse you are
>>unfamilar with a very helpful construct and are unwilling to learn
>>does not mean you should prevent others from continuing to enjoy 
>>one of the more pleasant aspects of Python.
>>  
>>
>
> Except that one of the design principles of Python is that it being easy 
> to *read* is more important than being easy to write, with the 
> assumption that much of the code that one reads will be code written by 
> someone else.  I do care how readable your code is, because (at least in 
> principle) someday I may need to maintain it.  ("If you don't like X, 
> don't use it, but let others use it if they like" seems to be much more 
> Perlish than Pythonic, at least IMHO.)
>
> Lambdas are hard to read, because they're significantly different, 
> syntactically, from any other construct in the language

I didn't find them so. On the other hand I find having to come up
with a name for a function can be very inconvenient and not worth
the trouble. If python wants functions to be full fledged objects,
is needs some way to have unnamed functions, just as you can have
unnamed lists, numbers, instances etc.

Can you imaging the protest, from people if it would be decide
that no unnamed entities van be used. If you want to use a number
or a list, as an argument you first have to name it and then use
the name as argument. Well the reason for having anonymous numbers
and lists is the same reason for having anonymous functions.


> -- it's not that 
> I'm _unwilling_ to learn, it's that it is actively *difficult* to learn 
> because it doesn't fit well, conceptually, into the rest of the 
> language, so there's a mental impedance barrier that must be overcome.  
> In order to explain lambdas to someone who is not already familiar with 
> them, you have to explain first that it's kind of like a function def, 
> except that it uses totally different syntax (aren't function defs 
> supposed to use parens?)

The problem is IMO that python uses two different kinds of ways to
assign an object to a name. You have the assignment and you have the
class and def statements. I would consider de class and def statements
the odd man out, because they combine the construcion of the object
with naming it, where normally the two are seperated.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Oct 28 04:41:39 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:41:39 +0200
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 13, Issue 462
In-Reply-To: <00b301c4bcc0$db5770a0$0100000a@vic.bigpond.net.au>
References: <20041028071356.D4B5C1E4011@bag.python.org>
	<00b301c4bcc0$db5770a0$0100000a@vic.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <20041028084139.GB1425@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 05:06:35PM +0930, Dave Beech wrote:
> please stop sending this shit to my email. im not fucking interested
> . thank you

Just unsubscribe, retard! (*)

> > [...] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list or, via email,
> > send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > python-list-request at python.org [...]

Every digest message contains the simple instructions, so even
dumbfucks like you cannot miss them.

-- Gerhard

(*) He can't read that anyway, and I wrote a separate civil reply. And
now I feel better :-)
-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Mon Oct 25 07:23:34 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:23:34 -0400
Subject: Roll in the Doug $$$
In-Reply-To: <15Xed.118529$dP1.404578@newsc.telia.net>
References: <15Xed.118529$dP1.404578@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <417CE236.9040909@bellsouth.net>

Enzo wrote:
<snip a bunch of MLM nonsense>

>
>
> READ AND LEARN ----- PROGRAM REALLY WORKS ---- NO BS! TAKES 30
> MINUTES.... You will be pleased with the results.
>

I'm unwilling to roll in the Doug for any amount of money.


Jeremy Jones
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Oct 22 19:03:02 2004
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 19:03:02 -0400
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<1098414642.736428.8940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <clc3j6$bf9$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <1098414642.736428.8940 at f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Jonathan  Ellis <jbellis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>What is the biggest system you have built with python personally?  I'm
>happy to be proven wrong, but honestly, the most enthusiastic "testing
>solves all my problem" people I have seen haven't worked on anything
>"large" -- and my definition of large agrees with Alex's; over 100
>kloc, more than a handful of developers.

So you're saying that both attributes are necessary?  (We're essentially
three programmers, but the codebase seems to be on the order of 150kloc,
about 2/3 of which is Python and the rest is HTML templates.  I didn't
bother doing an exact check 'cause I'm in the middle of something else.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)


From no-mail-please at nospam.com  Fri Oct 22 10:55:26 2004
From: no-mail-please at nospam.com (Robert Oschler)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:55:26 -0400
Subject: ANN: WordNet Developers Forum - Python section
Message-ID: <EMydnVEIqZ0pg-TcRVn-sQ@adelphia.com>

Hello all,

I have set up a forum dedicated to WordNet Developers.  I just added a
section for Python developers that are using PyWordNet or other Python based
WordNet interface modules or code.  Note, the forum is more for the
discussion of designing WordNet based applications and programming issues,
rather than support for any particular Python module that interfaces with
WordNet.  That support is usually better found on the module author's web
site or SourceForge project page.  (Although if you are the author of such a
module, please stop by! :)

You can have a look at the forum here:

http://www.wordnetchat.com/phpBB2/

You can see a lively discussion on using WordNet to classify and query
textually annotated audio files.

http://wordnetchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3

If you would like to tell others about the forum so they can join the fun,
here's an HTML snippet to link to the forum:

<a href="http://www.wordnetchat.com/phpBB2/" >WordNet Developers Forum</a>

Thanks

-- 
Robert Oschler
Forum Administrator
http://www.wordnetchat.com/phpBB2/
WordNet Chat - Developer's Forum




From goodger at python.org  Thu Oct 28 11:12:42 2004
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:12:42 -0400
Subject: I'm a fool, where's the documentation
In-Reply-To: <6c3f5e6c.0410261708.337e8d19@posting.google.com>
References: <6c3f5e6c.0410261708.337e8d19@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41810C6A.2000301@python.org>

[gibber]
> Ok, so I'm new to Python, so I'm clearly missing something, but where
> is the documentation?

You found it.  The documentation is what people have contributed.
Doc patches are always welcome.

The next step is UTSL: Use the Source, Luke!

-- 
David Goodger <http://python.net/~goodger>
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From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Oct 13 09:45:15 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:45:15 -0400
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrncmcf1i.dku.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glc06l.1s6wzdn11sa54yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<YgA9d.9451$M05.7622@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <rFTbBls/KnLU089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <YgA9d.9451$M05.7622 at newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
>I've used
>
>class sentinel:
>   pass

I liked

    class sentinel: "What the sentinel is meant to be for."


        Regards.        Mel.


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Oct  5 04:05:10 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 10:05:10 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41624f0e$0$17003$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <tyfk6u5d1zd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> writes:

> Well, I'd rather say that *all* OOPLs support message passing.

Not all. Common Lisp, for example does not support message pasing out
of the box (even though it's easy to implement a message-passing
object system yourself, in CL). The Common Lisp Object System (CLOS)
is based on generic functions.



From chrisconnett at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 00:57:40 2004
From: chrisconnett at gmail.com (Chris Connett)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 21:57:40 -0700
Subject: fileinput module dangerous?
Message-ID: <62e38ff3.0410122057.105c87ec@posting.google.com>

I just started working with the fileinput module, and reading the bit
about inplace modification, it seems very dangerous:

>From the doc:
---
Optional in-place filtering: if the keyword argument inplace=1 is
passed to input() or to the FileInput constructor, the file is moved
to a backup file and standard output is directed to the input file

**(if a file of the same name as the backup file already exists, it
will be replaced silently)**.

This makes it possible to write a filter that rewrites its input file
in place. If the keyword argument backup='.<some extension>' is also
given, it specifies the extension for the backup file, and the backup
file remains around; by default, the extension is '.bak' and it is
deleted when the output file is closed. In-place filtering is disabled
when standard input is read.
---[Emphasis mine]

This seems like very dangerous behavior, as .bak is a very common and
useful extension for old versions of files users would like to keep
around, and this module obliterates files one would not expect it to
touch.  This behavior is also very un-Pythonic.  The Zen says "Errors
should never pass silently."  There seems to be no way to get useful
behavior either, as the backup keyword just specifies a backup
extension, which you can never guarantee will not be in use, and it
leaves the file around in the directory as well.

It seems like this module should use tmpfile in the os module for it's
temp file needs.

Is there a rational reason it's this way, or should I start working on
a patch?

--
Chris Connett


From flab at large.net  Sat Oct 30 21:55:39 2004
From: flab at large.net (flab ba)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:55:39 -0700
Subject: ruby on rails ... python on ?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>

The pragmatic programmers (Dave & Andy) are spreading a good word about
RubyOnRails. I was wondering if there are any Python programmers who are
/also/ familiar with Rails - and if they could recommend something in the
Python world that is comparable.

-Flab


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct 19 02:59:05 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:59:05 +0200
Subject: printing with variable length of list
References: <a2972632.0410181055.50898f64@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cl2dut$k0c$05$1@news.t-online.com>

les ander wrote:

> suppose I have a list
> d=[1.2 , 31.1, 1.001]
> in general i will not know the size of d
> however, I would like to print them out nicely in the row format
> such as:
> print "%-10f "* len(d) % d

Here is a functional variant:

>>> d = [1.2 , 31.1, 1.001]
>>> def format(f):
...     return "%-10f" % f
...
>>> print " ".join(map(format, d))
1.200000   31.100000  1.001000

which can be simplified to

>>> print " ".join(map("%-10f".__mod__, d))
1.200000   31.100000  1.001000

if you like. I'm assuming that the trailing space in your approach was
accidental.

Peter


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 08:59:12 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 05:59:12 -0700
Subject: Cookie question
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410110459.3c2710cd@posting.google.com>

I could have titles this question 'Cookie monster' I suppose... but
that would have been very cheesy. Anyway, I'm experimenting with the
Cookie module. In the absence of needing anything more complex I've
been using the SimpleCookie class.

How do you set the 'expiry date' of a cookie ? The closest I can get
amounts to setting the 'expires' key of each entry as a morsel object.
I assume if any of the keys (morsels) don't have an expiry date then
the cookie will remain. *Also* what is the difference between the
value and the coded value of a morsel object ? The value doesn't
appear to show at all...

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.vooidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 11 18:38:24 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 15:38:24 -0700
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4538.1097192656.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8f17f4bc.0410080849.51fbdcfa@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62@posting.google.com>
	<a7a67196.0410082348.36fd45a@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410091859.39a6c028@posting.google.com>
	<416a53cd$0$16541$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410111438.7d73466f@posting.google.com>

> 
> Setting state='disabled' does not only prevent the user from editing the text, 
> but also prevents *you* from modifying the text via the insert or delete 
> methods. So whenever you want to insert or delete lines in the text, you must 
> configure its state to 'normal' before, do the modification, then set back its 
> state to 'disabled'
> 
> HTH

OK so I tryed:

import Tkinter
def add_rows(w, titles, rows):
    t.state = 'normal'
    for r in rows:
        for t, v in zip(titles, r):
            w.insert("end", "%s:\t%s\n" % (t, v))
        w.insert("end", "\n")

app = Tkinter.Tk()
t = Tkinter.Text(app)
t.pack()
info = [['Ali',18],
        ['Zainab',16],
        ['Khalid',18]]
add_rows(t, ["Name", "Age"], info)
app.mainloop()

it still wont show the text I want it to.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 17:33:35 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:33:35 +0200
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

kartik <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote:

> there seems to be a serious problem with allowing numbers to grow in a
> nearly unbounded manner, as int/long unification does: it hides bugs.

So does allowing strings to be any length.

> most of the time, i expect my numbers to be small. 2**31 is good
> enough for most uses of variables, and when more is needed, 2**63
> should do most of the time.

Most of the time, I expect my strings to be short.  1000 characters is
good enough for most uses of strings, and when more is needed, a million
should do most of the time.

> granted, unification allows code to work for larger numbers than
> foreseen (as PEP 237 states) but i feel the potential for more
> undetected bugs outweighs this benefit.

Granted, unlimited string length allows code to work for longer strings
than foreseen (as common sense states) but (if you're consistent) you
feel the potential for more undetected bugs outweighs this benefit.


By this parallel, I intend to communicate that (and part of why) I
consider your observations to be totally without merit.


Alex


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct  6 16:35:41 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 13:35:41 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <416454EE.7050405@cloudthunder.com>
References: <20041006112905.ED18.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<416454EE.7050405@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <20041006132633.ED2D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> Ah, that's what I meant.  So do you mean that I can not use Psyco 
> directly in the Pyrex code but I will have to apply it (by manually 
> editing them to import Psyco) to the Python leftovers?  I would think 
> that Pyrex would know to leave the imports alone and thus Psyco would be 
> fine.  I guess I shall have to test it for myself, thanks.

Pyrex is a Python-like langauge.  You send Pyrex through a preprocessor
that translates it into C.  You then compile that C into a Python module.

I am not sure that:
  import psyco
  psyco.full()
...will do anything useful in Pyrex code, so I wouldn't bother.

Let us say you manually translated 'mymodule.py' to 'mymodule.pyx' (or
wrote 'mymodule.pyx' directly), then ran the Pyrex preprocessor and a C
compiler to make 'mymodule.so' on a linux platform, and placed it in a
proper location.

Let us also say you have another module 'pythonmodule.py' which imports
'mymodule'.  If the psyco import and psyco.full() lines are in
pythonmodule.py (or any other python module that is imported), psyco
will do its thing on the Python source.

I do not know if leaving the psyco import and psyco.full() lines in
'mymodule.pyx' will do anything good or bad, as I have never tried such
a thing (for me, psyco is sufficient in the rare case that I need such
functionality).

 - Josiah



From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Wed Oct  6 15:00:05 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:00:05 GMT
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <xqxr7obisei.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

andre.naess at gmail.com (Andr? N?ss) writes:

> One thing I liked about Lisp was the ability to use the question mark
> (and the exclamation mark) in function names. I found this
> particularily useful when checking boolean properties of a object like
> for example myObj.isContextSet. It just feels so much more natural to
> write myObj.contextSet?
> 
> I also found it neat that destructive operations were clearly marked
> with !.
> 
> Is there anything preventing this from being possible in Python?
> 
> One of the things I really love about Python is the way it feels when
> I type it. It just comes completely natural to write "for foo in bar"
> and then push the colon, all those curly braces on the other hand
> always feel awkward.

I had the impression that "!" and "?" were more Scheme-isms than
Common-Lisp-isms.  

For "?", a typical CL idiom is "p" suffix, without or without leading
"-".  For clarity, I always use the "-p" form.  In Python this becomes
"_p", as in "ready_for_data_p".  I do this for boolean (True/False)
variables, methods, and functions.

For "!", a typical CL idiom is "n" prefix (as in "nreverse").  I've
never tried doing a Python equivalent, because I only see destructive
operations in builtins (which are already named).

What prevents using "?" and "!"?  Hopefully a graceful and poetic
sense of balance on the part of language designers.  In the extreme
we'd have APL.  Partway there, we'd have Ruby and perl.  I personally
like Python the way it is.




-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 342-0007


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct  5 21:41:12 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:41:12 -0400
Subject: Miscellaneous personal prejudices
In-Reply-To: <cjub3f$ogp$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cjsh6t$m6u$1@lairds.us> <36i932-lr5.ln1@lairds.us>
	<1tudnWqDWMKcpf_cRVn-qg@rogers.com>
	<du7y8il4ntg.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<TeKdnac_dM00MP_cRVn-vw@rogers.com>
	<cjub3f$ogp$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <CuWdnYLaJ92q0P7cRVn-hg@powergate.ca>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Dan Python wrote:
> 
> 
>>Done
> 
> 
> +1 NCOTW (Name change of the week :-)

Hardly seems fair... if you or I did it there would be
all manner of rude comments about the phallic connotations
of our new moniker... ;-)

-Peter


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 14:57:06 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:57:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Using os.system() and string concatenation
References: <7a2229ee041012114353157c1d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041012T205320-601@post.gmane.org>

Wayne Witzel III <wwitzel3 <at> gmail.com> writes:

> cmd = "/usr/sbin/useradd"
> os.system(cmd + list1[0] + list1[1] + list2[0] + list3[0])

Are you inserting spaces appropriately?  The code above makes one long command 
that looks like "usr/sbin/useraddoutput1output2output3output4".  Is this what 
you meant to do?

If not, you could try something like:

os.system(' '.join([cmd, list1[0], list1[1], list2[0], list3[0]]))

which should put spaces between the command and each of the entries...

If this is not what you're trying to do, could you give us a little more 
information on what the listi[j] things contain?  An example of what

print cmd + list1[0] + list1[1] + list2[0] + list3[0]

outputs would also be helpful.

STeve



From gohadbhai at rediffmail.com  Tue Oct 26 02:49:56 2004
From: gohadbhai at rediffmail.com (Sandeep Avinash Gohad)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 06:49:56 -0000
Subject: Database Connectivity with python
Message-ID: <20041026064956.28576.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041026/4aa63998/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
Hello

I am little new with the python & Database related programs....
If I want to develope any database related application,with options
like add,save,modify,delete,previous,last,next,first for maintaining
Employee's records.I want to use .mdb file or d-base database as a
backend.
I guess there must be some Libraries & modules for using ODBC.
In VB we can use ADO or DAO, In java we use JDBC, so for
python please guide me for developing any basic application....

Regards
Sandeep

From tim.peters at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 00:32:06 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 00:32:06 -0400
Subject: SegFault using deque in 2.4b3
In-Reply-To: <cjik2d$11r1$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
References: <cjgvhs$c33$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<cjhh7l$h9v$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
	<cjhjht$i9t$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
	<mailman.4158.1096594285.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cjik2d$11r1$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04093021324d5a9d16@mail.gmail.com>

[George Yoshida]
> OK, I'll try to report to sourceforge once a bug is confirmed.

No need this time!  I already checked in a fix and a new test.


From uche at ogbuji.net  Fri Oct  1 19:50:47 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 16:50:47 -0700
Subject: Parsing HTML
References: <jmj5q0gv1g1k$.dlg@morateknikutveckling.se>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0410011550.4f3cc63b@posting.google.com>

Anders Eriksson <anders.eriksson at morateknikutveckling.se> wrote in message news:<jmj5q0gv1g1k$.dlg at morateknikutveckling.se>...
> Hello!
> 
> I want to extract some info from a some specific HTML pages, Microsofts
> International Word list (e.g.
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dnwue/html/swe_word_list.htm). I
> want to take all the words, both English and the other language and create
> a dictionary. so that I can look up About and get Om as the answer.
> 
> How is the best way to do this?

http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html

-- 
Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
 
A hands-on introduction to ISO Schematron -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-xschematron-i.html
XML circles the globe - http://www.javareport.com/article.asp?id=9797
Principles of XML design: Considering container elements -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-contain.html
Hacking XML Hacks - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think26.html
A survey of XML standards -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stand4/


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct 20 13:26:14 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:26:14 -0700
Subject: testing for uniquness in a large list
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0410200830.471a5ea9@posting.google.com>
References: <pan.2004.10.20.10.01.17.525999@lolmc.com>
	<5c882bb5.0410200830.471a5ea9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041020101740.0A9A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile) wrote:

> Alex Martelli's solution is *very* good, but there is a sampling
> problem: putting a simple printing inside his program:
> 
> if not (len(results) % 5000):
>     print len(results)
> 
> You can see that it slows down a lot when the dictionary contains
> about 100000-120000 different sequences, because there are many
> collisions, and it keeps slowing down. Probably a little speed up of
> this code cannot help. A different algoritm can be useful.
> I don't know... direct sequences generation doesn't seem possibile.
> Maybe a partially direct generation can be okay.

There are only 125,970 unique sequences of 12 items from 20 where order
does not matter (20!)/(12!8!), which is what Alex was generating, and
what "Lol McBride" asked for.

Remove the "ordering does not matter" constraint (by removing the
list.sort() call) will complete much faster as the space to select from
becomes 60,339,831,552,000 in size.

Math saves the day!

 - Josiah



From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 18 11:29:56 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 15:29:56 GMT
Subject: about raw socket
References: <cl0066$nid$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <4173e174$0$25862$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-18, Leon <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> wrote:

> raw socket only modify such as TTL,TOS,OPTIONS for IP Header...etc
> Can it have capability modify other field ?
> such as Source Address(IP Address)

Sure.  If you open a raw socket, you can send any arbitrary
chunk of bits you want to as an Ethernet packet.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'd like TRAINED
                                  at               SEALS and a CONVERTIBLE on
                               visi.com            my doorstep by NOON!!


From jbors at mail.ru  Sat Oct 23 13:17:08 2004
From: jbors at mail.ru (Dmitry Borisov)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:17:08 -0700
Subject: How to play sound in Python?
References: <Msved.21689$OD2.7465@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <10nl4j0frj73ca4@corp.supernews.com>

"Bill Dandreta" <wjdandreta at att.net> wrote in message
news:Msved.21689$OD2.7465 at bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I posted a message ("Help with my 1st Tkinter program") a few days ago
> complaining that Python did not have any built in basic cross platform
> sound capability. I was wrong (at least partly). Python comes with some
> sound playing ability for some platforms.

Take a look: http://pymedia.org/
Dmitry/




From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Sat Oct  9 14:55:48 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 14:55:48 -0400
Subject: Algorithm used by keyword 'in'
In-Reply-To: <lTV9d.145034$Kt5.13032@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
References: <lYS9d.144800$Kt5.79976@twister.nyroc.rr.com>	<pan.2004.10.09.15.30.10.505058@jerf.org>
	<lTV9d.145034$Kt5.13032@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <41683434.5080804@kzoo.edu>

Derek Rhodes wrote:

>>In addition to John Roth's post, see the bottom of
>>http://docs.python.org/ref/sequence-types.html , which will help you
>>create your own algorithms for your own classes, if you like.
>>    
>>
>
>Thanks for quick response guys.
>
>-Derek. 
>
>
>  
>
Is python smart enough to do say a binary search if you sort the list 
right before using in?



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 18 11:16:21 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:16:21 -0400
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5117.1098111477.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5117.1098111477.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4173DE45.7060705@holdenweb.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:27:43 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>>   ...
>>
>>>Yes, that's a good point, and it's one of the reasons I tend to prefer
>>>the generator now. But anyway, it's just me, or does the 'chained
>>>yield' look ugly to someone else? It may be just a question of getting
>>>used to it, but nevertheless it's bugging me...
>>
>>I'm not sure why it should look ugly to you.  What alternatives would
>>you consider non-ugly for the common (in any generator) idiom:
>>    for x in y: yield x
>>?
>>
>>Perhaps some syntax hack such as a new statement keyword 'yieldall'
>>where the above idiom could be expressed as
>>    yieldall y
>>?  Or some other syntax hack such as 'yield<<y', or 'yield from y',
>>ditto?  Personally, it would seem to me that such special syntax would
>>be just one more bit of Python to learn, without substantial benefits,
>>but that's because I see nothing ugly in today's idiom -- it does just
>>what it says, plainly and unpretentiously...
> 
> 
> Generally speaking, new keywords hardly solve any problem; in fact,
> they create new problems of their own :-) In this case, my main gripe
> is that the code doesn't read as naturally as the simple recursive
> version, because of the double for loop. Its also strange because I
> often have to stop and think, "what am I yielding now". For deeply
> nested recursive cases there is also the feeling that the yield chain
> may prove to be a performance dog, but that's should not be the main
> point here anyway.
> 
> I have a strange idea in the back of my mind that tells me that a
> possible solution would be to have any of the nested yields to
> immediately return the result to the original caller. In this case, I
> would write my code this way:
> 
> def walk(self):
>    """generator-based recursive tree traversal"""
>    yield child
>    for child in childs:
>         transfer child.walk()
> 
> It's quite weird -- a generator plus a direct flow-of-execution
> transfer. It's not a goto, its not a co-routine... It requires a new
> keyword ('transfer', in this case), which _is_ a real problem --
> something like this can't be lightly proposed. In this case, it's just
> a thought experiment, at this point; nothing serious, and far from a
> proposal.
> 
I can see why this might seem attractive, but in point of fact it would 
do little more than the elimination of tail recursion, and would have 
similar disadvantages - it wouldn't be possible to get useful tracebacks 
in the event that problems occurred.

If a data structure is recursive then a recursive generator or a 
recursive function is often the bext way to handle it, and yielding a 
result to another yield statement (at however many levels) surely isn't 
problematical enough to remove a desirable regularity from the language 
and its implementations.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119



From http  Mon Oct  4 06:46:56 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Oct 2004 03:46:56 -0700
Subject: Reclaiming (lots of) memory
References: <87lleo6hva.fsf@thomas.local>
	<slrncm281h.cs.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <7xbrfirc9r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> writes:
> Just for fun I converted your program to use anydbm.  It then took 135
> seconds to run (vs 12 for your original code), but only used 4 MB of
> memory top.  The values of the dbm are pickled hashes.  The keys could
> be too, but I decided to just use a tab seperated string...

But I think it used much more than 4 MB of memory if you count the
amount of system cache that held that dbm file.  Without the caching
there'd have had to be real disk seeks for all those dbm updates.  So
I think if you had a lot more data, enough that you couldn't keep the
dbm in cache any more, you'd get a horrible slowdown.  That's why you
may be better off with a sorting-based method, that only needs
sequential disk operations and not a lot of random seeks.


From lbates at syscononline.com  Wed Oct 27 10:53:43 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:53:43 -0500
Subject: High volume websites using Python web server software?
In-Reply-To: <417ee2ab$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <417ee2ab$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <ksGdnWZbF4XtK-LcRVn-ig@comcast.com>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Hi,
> Things like Twisted, medusa, etc.... that claim to be able
> to support hundreds of concurrent connections because of the
> async I/O framework they're based on....
> can someone give a few examples of some web sites actually
> using those Python frameworks?
> 
> Thanks :)
> 
> --Irmen
I don't know if it is of interested but it is my understanding
that Zope uses some version of Medusa and there are quite a few
"high volume" websites based on zope (see www.zope.com).

Larry Bates


From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Fri Oct 22 04:12:52 2004
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:12:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Newbie Question
References: <4C1ed.5243$TU5.3711@trndny06>
Message-ID: <irfhn0l4t1resvjc605bc72jr49upm02rh@4ax.com>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:17:36 GMT, "John Smith"
<oldphartyankee at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Aside from the text online, what are the best books for a newbie learning 
> python as their first language? 

Well I'm biased but I think my book "Learning to Program Using
Python" is pretty good for the complete beginner :-)

Others include "Teach Yourself Python in 24 hours" and
the "Visual Python"(?) book gets good crits too - but I haven't
read that one. 

"Python, How to Program" by the Dietels tries to start at the
beginner level but I suspect it dives too deep too quickly for
many, and it is quite expensive.

Most other books are aimed at those with at least one other
language behind them so don't explain all the jargon and concepts
as much as those above.

However despite being bad for my royalties I'd actually recommend
trying the various beginners online tutorials first and then
buying one of the more mainstream books (Learning Python, Quick
Python etc) as a long term better value investment. You will use
those books for a longer period than the complete beginners
guides I suspect.

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/tutor2


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Oct 18 13:59:01 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:59:01 +0200
Subject: unsigned char array -> buffer
References: <cl0pj4$pj9$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cl0pvi$dt3$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cl0svk$v0$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cl1090$52b$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,
 
> I create a com object, which loads a jpg image and then I request that
> image from the com object with the method getImgData().
> As answer to getImageData(), the com object returns a SafeArray of
> unsigned char (Bytes).
> 
> My problem (no problem with asp and perl, same with php) is, that I would
> like to read the imagedata directly into a string of unsigned chars and
> then print it to the user agent (webbrowser) in binary mode.
> 
> So, it would not really make sense to print the imagedata here ;-) - Sorry
> for that confusion.

It will - as one can see what you actually get, instead of what you _want_
to get. AFAIK win32 converts variants to appropriate python types, with
arrays returned as lists - so if things work as documented, you shold get
something like this:

l = ["a", "$", ...]

Making that a (binary) string should be a simple matter of 

l.join("")

So I'd like to know what you really get- of cours the first few lines are
sufficient, no need to post a 100kb jpeg binary image.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Thu Oct 21 02:19:53 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:19:53 +0200
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
 exception
In-Reply-To: <1glzcek.6eh93i3wp035N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
	<cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<4176836E.4000507@holdenweb.com>
	<cl64rp$4kt$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<1glzcek.6eh93i3wp035N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cl7k5o$kbh$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Alex Martelli schrieb:
> log('msg %s', (1, 2, 3))
> 
> works w/o your patch but your patch breaks it, so it's not strictly true
> that there are no drawbacks, I believe.  Possibly the drawback's minor,
> though.

I just checked that, you're right.

"msg %s" % (1,2,3)

throws an exception, while

"msg %s" % ((1,2,3),)

does not.

It's maybe not that a common use case, I guess, but it's definitely a 
deviation from the original interface as in Python 2.3, so it breaks 
compatibility.

Maybe we still need a check for the actual type of args?

The only problematic case is a tuple as only argument, everything else 
should work. So there are three possible solutions for backward compatibility:

1) document the change :o)
2) check for a dictionary as first argument
3) check for a tuple as first argument

Since the tuple is the only problematic thing you could hand in, I 
personally feel a preference for making that the "exception" (i.e. I vote 
for 3).

Any comments?

Stefan


From vegeta.z at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 20:21:47 2004
From: vegeta.z at gmail.com (Alexander Kervero)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:21:47 -0400
Subject: urllib2 documentation
Message-ID: <cjngnm$pi5$1@sea.gmane.org>


I am trying to learn urllib2 functionality but it realy lacks
documentation,the library reference is not enough since this module has a
very confusing way to work,where can i find examples or tutorials about
this module,i have googled but no luck? 




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 13 17:15:33 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:15:33 -0600
Subject: Problem with the readline library for Win32
References: <864d3709041013105735c6ae4b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ckk5tl$h9n$1@sea.gmane.org>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> Sorry to post it here, but I searched the sourceforge site for a
> proper list and could not find any. I'm having a few issues with the
> Gary Bishop's readline package for Win32; the main one is that
> accented characters do not work as expected. I would like to know if
> anyone else experienced this problems, and also if there is a better
> forum to post this question.

You might want to mail Gary directly, I'm not sure if he monitors c.l.py with
regularity.  In the past I've contacted him directly and he has always been
very helpful with issues re. his readline and ipython.

Cheers,

f



From theller at python.net  Fri Oct  8 14:14:48 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:14:48 +0200
Subject: Ctypes error
References: <ck3qg3$cs6$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it> <1xga4bjm.fsf@python.net>
	<87wty11iih.fsf@thomas.local>
Message-ID: <is9lyt47.fsf@python.net>

Thomas Rast <foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid> writes:

> Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:
>
>> The deeper issue is that the unicode stuff in ctypes is only compiled in
>> when the Python header files define the HAVE_USABLE_WCHAR_T symbol.  Of
>> the systems I build and test on, only Windows defines this.
>
> Since nobody else replied, I'll have to speak up here :-)
>
> I'm running a stock Debian 'testing' Linux, which currently means 
>
> libc6          2.3.2.ds1-16
> gcc            3.3.4-2
> python         2.3.4-4
>
> /usr/include/python2.3/pyconfig.h *does* define HAVE_USABLE_WCHAR_T.

Thanks for the effort - on my suse linux 9.0 with gcc 3.3.1,
HAVE_USABLE_WCHAR_T is *not* defined - neither with the python package
that suse delivers, nor with ./configure I run myself over the CVS
sources.

But the good news is - it doesn't matter.  I posted a mssage to
python-dev about my finding when grepping through the sources - ctypes
should use HAVE_WCHAR_H, or maybe Py_UNICODE_SIZE.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-October/049275.html

Thomas


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Thu Oct 28 07:14:41 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:14:41 +0200
Subject: Python utility convert Windows long file name into 8.3 DOS
	format
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5606.1098959524.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <4C0gd.20216$R05.13225@attbi_s53>	<mailman.5599.1098947598.5135.python-list@python.org>	<clqc5i$l1h$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<mailman.5606.1098959524.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clqkav$5pi$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:55:16 +0200, vincent wehren
> <vincent at visualtrans.de> wrote:
> 
>>Just note that GetShortPathName expects a valid and accessible path in
>>your file system.
> 
> 
> Which is just as it should be. Files that don't exist don't *have*
> short names. One might be able to put together a function that
> *guesses* what short name Windows would be likely to give a new file
> with a given long name, but it would be pretty unreliable, I reckon.
> 

Exactly. And on top of that, there may be situations where files that 
*do* exist *don't* have a 8.3 alias, making any such guesswork even 
harder. So in retrospect, the correct answer to OP's question should be: 
"No. There is no conversion utility", as the relationship between long 
name - short name is not on of a-to-b conversion.


--
Vincent Wehren



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 29 07:55:43 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:55:43 +0200
Subject: globally available objects
References: <mailman.5650.1099046060.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2uemltF28oaedU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5651.1099049968.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2ueq1hF2a9e6eU1@uni-berlin.de>

> In any case, I still would like to have a look at Pierre singleton
> implementation,

There are some recipes on aspn's cookbook - go google :)
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Wed Oct  6 09:14:33 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 13:14:33 GMT
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <1gl8lbf.2q7qwd18zj9xnN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<KRu8d.25558$H11.796459@twister1.libero.it>
	<1gl8d5f.1xwzpge1bw12b5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<DRP8d.26870$N45.697714@twister2.libero.it>
	<1gl8lbf.2q7qwd18zj9xnN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ZcS8d.27143$N45.701847@twister2.libero.it>

Alex Martelli ha scritto:
> gabriele renzi <rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it> wrote:
>    ...
> 
>>better than I can, but basically it boils down to applying operations to
>>a whole collection at once, in APL style.
> 
> 
> Numeric has been doing just that for many years, and indeed using
> Numeric does _feel_ to me very close to using APL in some cases, minus
> the illegibility.  So, I don't see any case for changing the language.
> 
> 

indeed the OOPAL papers considers python's Numeric, and founds the need 
for still changing the language.
As I said, you can read it and found a better explanation than the one I 
could give you.


From scott.novinger at abxair.com  Tue Oct  5 14:29:35 2004
From: scott.novinger at abxair.com (scott)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 11:29:35 -0700
Subject: Logging VNC Hits
Message-ID: <9d393e9d.0410051029.6a35c796@posting.google.com>

Hello,

Does anyone have an example of a script that can log when/ if someone
VNC's into your PC?

Thank you,

Scott


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Thu Oct 21 14:38:59 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:38:59 -0700
Subject: WxHTML
In-Reply-To: <lyIdd.3054$KJ6.105@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <20041021003804.16183.00000900@mb-m01.aol.com>
	<mailman.5247.1098336070.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<lyIdd.3054$KJ6.105@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1098383940.25386.122.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 06:20 +0000, Andrew Dalke wrote:
> Robby Russell wrote:
> > Have you considered wxMozilla?
> > 
> > www.wxmozilla.org
> 
> What's the project status?  Last update on that page is
> from 2003-10-11, or over a year ago.  I see a mailing from
> Kevin Ollivier dated 2004-09-13 commenting on some bugs
> under Mac OS X (my platform of choice) saying
> 
>  > I've already spent a considerable amount of time on this,
>  > and I'm not sure how much I will continue working on this
>  > in the near future.

wxMozilla isn't currently usable on OS X for wxPython 2.5 (and you'll
want 2.5 on that platform).

> Ahh, and there's one dated 2004-10-15 from Kevin suggesting
> wxWebKitCtrl as an alternative for that platform.  But
> there are few search hits for that term.  Anyone have a
> better point for info about it?

Yes, Kevin just wrapped wxWebKitCtrl for wxPython.  It's in the current
cvs.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Wed Oct 20 14:41:45 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:41:45 GMT
Subject: String changing on the fly
References: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com><m2brexcorb.fsf@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>
	<mailman.5235.1098294536.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Jjydd.12718$sO5.2477@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"John Hunter" <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.5235.1098294536.5135.python-list at python.org...
> >>>>> "John" == John Hunter <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:
>
>
> Continuing the fun, you can define a new python class that inherits
> from string, but overrides the "convert me to a string representation"
> method __str__ to evaluate itself in the context of the global
> variables
>
> import re
>
>
> class PerlString(str):

<snip>

How do you know the language was Perl?  Could be Tcl, which also uses the
'$' substitution form. (Although "T=100" would be written "set T 100" in
that case.)

-- Paul




From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 04:45:25 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 01:45:25 -0700
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410180045.20947e5a@posting.google.com>

Config file reading is an area where python is 'well served' with
various options.
For sheer simplicty of use you can't beat my ConfigObj. It reads the
file and presents the values as a dictionary (keyed by keyword of
course). It supports writing hte file as well. The trouble with with
using attribute names is that you will have problems with keywords
that are reserved - like 'print' and 'pass'.

Of course the obligatory URL
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/configobj.html

Regards,

Fuzzyman

http://www.voidpace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> A few weeks ago, the suggestion was made on Python-Dev that it might be time
> to consider replacing the ConfigParser module and that we should hold a
> "shootout" (ie ask for implementations and see what we get).
> 
> Since then I've been playing around with this... not the parsing part (which
> so far I have completely ignored) but the programmer interface. There needs
> to be a well-thought-out data model for the information stored, and the user
> interface needs to be very easy to use, yet not so "magical" that it becomes
> difficult to understand.
> 
> I have put together what I think is probably my best proposal. It is based
> on a superset of ini config files and java .property files. There is a
> convenient access mechanism ("config.my_app.some_value") as well as more
> general approaches ("config.values['my_app.serviceByPort.80']"). I have
> tried to consider issues like unicode (I permit fairly lenient mixing of
> unicode and str), and unit testing ("... call config.clear_all() in the
> tearDown() method of any unittests that use the config module..."). I have
> even considered carefully what to leave OUT (converting to non-string data
> types, interpolating values, things like that).
> 
> I think that I am now at the point where I could really use some input from
> others. So I'd like to invite people to review my design and send me your
> suggestions. I'm not expecting this as a *useful* module yet (it doesn't
> yet parse files!), but it seemed like a good stage at which to ask for
> feedback. I'm attaching two files, config.py and configTest.py, and they
> are also available from these urls:
> 
>     http://www.mcherm.com/publish/2004-10-17/config.py
>     http://www.mcherm.com/publish/2004-10-17/configTest.py
> 
> Thanks in advance for reviewing this.
> 
> -- Michael Chermside


From roy at panix.com  Wed Oct  6 10:20:42 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 10:20:42 -0400
Subject: How best to return a class method?
Message-ID: <ck0uvq$1qk$1@panix2.panix.com>

I've got a method which returns another method:

class domPrinter:
    def getNodePrinter (self, nodeType):
	[...]
        # return domPrinter.printUnknown
	return self.__class__.printUnknown

I originally wrote it as the commented-out version, but didn't like
the idea that I've got to repeat the class name.  The version using
self.__class__ solves that problem, but it's uglier and more
complicated.

Any opinions on the best way to do this?


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 12:52:14 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:52:14 -0300
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <1gl55lu.yovfmt1kquac3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4231.1096844832.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410040223.4aa4f24b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4239.1096896657.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl55lu.yovfmt1kquac3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041004095250c3ece2@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:36:32 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Well, _this_ experienced writer keeps repeating this fact over and over
> and over again in _his_ explanations (e.g., Nutshell p. 32: "Unlike
> other languages, Python has no declarations"), but of course that
> doesn't help all that much if one's explanations just aren't read.

I can only thank you for having pointed it out to me here at this
newsgroup. I'm not fortunate enough to have a copy your books here
with me :-) But even so -- this topic _should_ be better explained,
and clarified, in the standard Python documentation. (as a side note,
it's not only declarations and metaclasses; I've read Raymond
Hettinger docs regarding descriptors, and I was left wondering why
weren't it included into the standard documentation, in some form or
other).
 
> As for me, I'm leaning towards agreement with Guido, that a metaclass
> that's not a type _is_ a hack that's best avoided.  So, a 'def
> __metaclass__' is already a code smell.  A nested 'class
> __metaclass__(type):' would of course be a completely different issue,
> basically an "anonymous metaclass" so to speak, not particularly hackish
> IMHO -- for the <1% (if Tim has it right) of Pythonistas who _DO_ need
> to worry about metaclasses, of course.

During the learning process, more often than not I would try to solve
*all* problems with a metaclass, as if it was the only tool available.
Now that I'm starting to feel comfortable, things start to fall back
into the correct perspective once again. But of course, now I'm better
equiped with a powerful addition to my toolset :-) Let's not abuse it
though.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From michael at stroeder.com  Wed Oct  6 15:21:09 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:21:09 +0200
Subject: ANN: python-ldap-2.0.3
Message-ID: <mailman.4448.1097094700.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>

Find a new pre-release of python-ldap:

   http://python-ldap.sourceforge.net/

python-ldap provides an object-oriented API to access LDAP directory
servers from Python programs. It mainly wraps the OpenLDAP 2.x libs for
that purpose. Additionally it contains modules for other LDAP-related
stuff (e.g. processing LDIF, LDAPURLs and LDAPv3 schema).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Released 2.0.3 2004-10-06

Changes since 2.0.2:

* Added support for LDAP Password Modify Extended Operation
   (see RFC 3062)

Demo/:
* Added passwd_ext_op.py

Modules/:
* Added l_ldap_passwd() in LDAPObject.c

Lib/:
* Added methods passwd() and passwd_s() to
   ldap.ldapobject.LDAPObject


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Oct  3 08:11:18 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 07:11:18 -0500
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
In-Reply-To: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
	(alia_khouri@yahoo.com's message of "2 Oct 2004 13:35:57 -0700")
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2mzz4ypax.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Alia" == Alia Khouri <alia_khouri at yahoo.com> writes:

    Alia> Given this context, I'm mulling over strategies to encourage
    Alia> the productivity-enhancing benefits and 'joy' of python
    Alia> scripting to my developers. Of course, I'd rather be
    Alia> persuasive than coercive.

    Alia> Any ideas?

Read "Hackers and Painters" by Paul Graham, and then give copies to
your developers.  He writes compellingly about the benefits of using
python (or lisp) is a competitive environment.

JDH


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Tue Oct 26 14:14:04 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:14:04 GMT
Subject: Language comparison site - Python ranks #8 on the A-list
Message-ID: <Mtwfd.1138$EI6.392@fe2.texas.rr.com>

I just tripped over this site (http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm), and google
shows that there has only been a brief mention of it on c.l.py in the Aug 12
Dr. Dobb's Python-URL post, so I thought I'd pass it along for those looking
for some quasi-quantitative Python advocacy data.

It's also interesting to look at the comparitive trend chart lower down on
the page.  But my question is, what the heck happened in March '04?
(Several languages showed drastic swings of several percentage points up or
down - I suspect that this actually reflects some artifact of the data
sampling process, perhaps a software change at Google/Yahoo that would alter
their search outputs, which are inputs to this algorithm, which is why I
call it "quasi-quantitative.")

-- Paul




From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 11:19:40 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:19:40 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com> <416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <864d37090410130819b1f3d60@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:42:28 -0400, Nicolas Fleury
<nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> > Of course, we are now getting into corner cases that show how much are
> > we pushing class  statements in Python. The _sane_ way to make it all
> > work would be to have a hook to provide a user-defined dict to the
> > class locals() dir; aternatively, the natice dict() could provide a
> > ordered interface (but then it wouldn't be a simple hash mapping, a
> > more complex structure such as a tree would be needed). Both are far
> > from happening in Python 2.x, IMHO... and I really doubt if dicts will
> > ever be changed to accomodate ordering, even in Python 3.0. Too much
> > hassle for too little gain. A hook function seems to be more sensible.
> 
> I don't know.  I was thinking that maybe an ordereddict class would be
> useful, something like:
> 
> myDict = {'a': 4, 'b': 5 }  # normal dict
> myDict = o{'a': 4, 'b': 5 }  # ordered dict, keeping order ['a', 'b']
> 
> The dictionary could only be use in specific cases, like configuration
> stuff or temporarily when instantiating a metaclass...  I don't know,
> maybe I'm just crazy...

I don't think you're crazy. OTOH, defining 'ordering' is difficult. Is
it the alphabethical ordering, or is it the ordering of insertion?
Either way is arbitrary and it not going to satisfy everyone.

I am beginning to get a glimpse of the theorethical implications of
Python's metaclass design and implementation. It's an amazingly clever
solution (the __metaclass__ magic name, I mean); but I suspect that it
could be more powerful if there were a way to detect the metaclass
*before* the class statement is first processed; in this way, the
metaclass could provide a custom locals() dict, or implement other
types of hook for the class being created. But this is really hard
stuff, with implications beyond my current understanding, and I don't
feel prepared to argue at python-dev about it, really.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct 22 07:43:08 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:43:08 -0400
Subject: Method Underscores? (and a 'solution')
In-Reply-To: <1gm1um6.zgqbbe8x559fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298@jerf.org>
	<1gm17go.1r662ynelfha7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<pan.2004.10.21.20.08.48.57327@jerf.org>
	<1gm1um6.zgqbbe8x559fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4178F24C.5010004@holdenweb.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
> 
[...]
> Roughly, I guess.  But a typical Applescript might be:
> 
> tell application "Microsoft Word"
>    open "MyWordFile"
>    set selection to paragraph 1
>    data size of selection as string
> end tell
> 
[...]
>  
> 
>>I guess if you're so stuck on the double-underscore-is-too-much-
>>punctuation idea, you *deserve* to try to do all your programming in a
>>combo of COBOL and Applescript :-)
>>
What a dreadful; fate to wish on anybody!

>>I'm thinking I'll stick with Python.
> 
> 
> Me, too.  But I understand how the "antiperl" (lrep?-) nearly
> punctuation free style of Applescript may be tempting -- if Applescript
> were cross-platform, it might perhaps make an even better beginners'
> language than Python (and I think that of few languages).  It doesn't
> scale up as well as Python, though, it appears to me.
> 
> 
Yeah, it does have that Logo-like quality about it, doesn't it? For 
beginners, of course, it's typically more interesting to be able to 
write scripts to get their computers to do things they'd otherwise have 
to do themselves, so AppleScript-for-Windows might be a good Python project!

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Oct 27 11:55:31 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:55:31 -0500
Subject: High volume websites using Python web server software?
In-Reply-To: <clof9e$m19$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
References: <417ee2ab$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<clof9e$m19$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
Message-ID: <417FC4F3.6030001@colorstudy.com>

Michael Sparks wrote:
> Irmen de Jong wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi,
>>Things like Twisted, medusa, etc.... that claim to be able
>>to support hundreds of concurrent connections because of the
>>async I/O framework they're based on....
>>can someone give a few examples of some web sites actually
>>using those Python frameworks?
> 
> 
> What do you define as high volume? Different people have different
> expectations here. I would say for example that high volume starts at
> around 10-20 million requests per day, but even that is an order of
> magnitude too low to *really* be viewed as high volume, _unless_ you're
> only counting valid page impressions and not all web objects served.

I think he's talking about servers that server a higher-than-normal 
number of simultaneous connections.

For instance, with Apache you can only serve as many connections as you 
have processes or threads.  By default, that usually leaves you with 
maybe ten concurrent connections (with everyone else being queued), and 
while you can bump that up considerably there's still a limit.

This works fine when requests are quickly completed, because you can 
still serve a large number of requests even if only a small number of 
concurrent request.  But if the requests are long-running (e.g., a 
telnet session) then you need to serve a large number of requests. 
Because async frameworks don't have the overhead of multiple processes 
or threads, they can potentially serve a large number of simultaneous 
requests where other systems cannot.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 22 15:00:08 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:00:08 -0700
Subject: how about a builtin "abstractmethod"?
In-Reply-To: <b16e4ef7.0410220538.7727ec25@posting.google.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0410220538.7727ec25@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041022113115.0ADD.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg) wrote:
> # simulated implementation of a new builtin class: abstractmethod
> def abstractmethod(f):
>     methodName = f.__name__
>     def temp(self, *args, **kwargs):
>         raise NotImplementedError(
>             "Attempt to invoke unimplemented abstract method %s"
>             % methodName)
>     return temp
> 
> # example of using proposed builtin class: abstractmethod
> class TestClass:
>     @abstractmethod
>     def TestMethod(self): pass
                           ^^^^^
I don't believe that using a single line for such definitions are
considered Pythonic.


I prefer...

class TestClass:
    def TestMethod(self):
        raise NotImplementedError

Sure, you don't get the function name in your textual exception raise,
but you do get the function call in your traceback, and save yourself
having to use decorators when they are certainly not necessary, and
don't improve the readability nor understandability of the code.

 - Josiah



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Oct 27 06:56:32 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:56:32 +0200
Subject: Becoming Unicode Aware
References: <6f402501.0410270256.13cf5727@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2u9dpvF27biksU1@uni-berlin.de>

> My main problem with udnerstanding unicode is what to do with
> arbitrary text without an encoding specified. To the best of my
> knowledge the technical term for this situation is 'buggered'. E.g. I
> have a CGI guestbook script. Is the only way of knowing what encodign
> the user is typing in, to ask them ?

Unfortunately the http standard seems to lack a specification how form data
encoding is to be transferred. But it seems that most browser which
understand a certain encoding your page is delivered in will use that for
replying.

 
> Anyway - ConfigObj reads config files from plain text files. Is there
> a standard for specifying the encoding within the text file ? I know
> python scripts have a method - should I just use that ?

No idea what configobj is - is it you own config parser?
 
> Also - suppose I know the encoding, or let the programmer specify, is
> the following sufficient for reading the files in :
> 
> def afunction(setoflines, encoding='ascii'):
>     for line in setoflines:
>         if encoding:
>             line = line.decode(encoding)

Yes, it should be - but why the if? It is unnecessary, as its condition will
always be true - and you _want_ it that way, as the result of afunction
should always be unicode objects, no matter what encoding was used.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From loritsch at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 02:33:44 2004
From: loritsch at gmail.com (Michael Loritsch)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 23:33:44 -0700
Subject: Win32+Zope+Python+Databases: What are my options?
References: <jZxfd.1119$mm6.1114@amstwist00>
	<v82dnbiwouf3L-PcRVn-1Q@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <e253918f.0410262233.5ab956a0@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<v82dnbiwouf3L-PcRVn-1Q at powergate.ca>...
> Carl wrote:
> > Using COM and ADO on Win32, it is very easy to access databases (eg MySql,
> > MS SQL Server, etc) from Python.
> > 
> > Does anybody know if it is possible to access databases from Zope (which is
> > written in Python) using COM and ADO? 
> 
> Do you mean "Does Zope have built-in support for this?"
> or "Does such a facility already exist for Zope?" or something else?
> 
> Because if, as you note, Zope is written in Python, then it
> should be reasonably obvious that you can write a Zope
> extensions/script/product which will do exactly what you need,
> if one doesn't already exist.
> 
> By the way, Python has a "DB API", which pair of acronyms may help
> direct your web searches for a solution...
> 
> -Peter

As Peter said, Python has a database API specification.  The idea is
to encourage the similarity between python modules that are used to
access databases.  The DB API uses a different interface than ADO on
Win32, but you could choose to access databases in that way as well
using Python if you desired to do so.

For more information on the DB API, check out
http://www.python.org/topics/database/.  Here you will find not only
the specification, but also the different modules which implement it. 
If would like to buy a book on the subject, I recommend Steve Holden's
Python Web Programming, as it has a great introduction on the DB API.

Now, concerning Zope...  Zope has quite a few 'products' that can
access relational databases directly.  Although, since Zope has an
object database built in, there is often no need for a Zope
application to access a relational database.

Anyways, to get back to answering your question, Zope can be used to
access relational databases using Zope products.  Whether or not there
are any products using COM and ADO for this database access, I do not
know.  If you would like to find out, go to http://zope.org/ and
search 'Zope Products' for what you're looking for.

Last, but not least... If there are no suitable products in Zope for
your needs, you can certainly write your own Zope product that access
database using COM and ADO.

Regards,

Michael Loritsch


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Wed Oct  6 05:05:06 2004
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 09:05:06 GMT
Subject: binary numbers
In-Reply-To: <41633247.6000400@gmail.com>
References: <cjv58g$q5i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>	<E62dnZKZl9wKvP7cRVn-gw@comcast.com>
	<mailman.4392.1097017158.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41633247.6000400@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6zO8d.267393$Xh2.14087266@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Brad Tilley wrote:

> Darren Kirby wrote:
> 
>> quoth the Larry Bates:
>>
>>> Integers are stored in memory as binary.
>>>
>>> x=5
>>>
>>> stores 5 in x in binary form.
>>
>>>>> x=5
>>>>> x
>>
>> 5
>>
>>
>>  I think our friend is looking for a module or function that turns 5 
>> into 101 (or perhaps 00000101)
>>
> 
> Thanks, this is what I need.

Are you sure? I mean, are you really really sure? REG_BINARY indeed 
expects data in binary form, but that does not mean that you should 
convert it to a string of 0's and 1's. It means that it can take any 
series of bytes, and doesn't care what is in those bytes.

The struct module approach as explained by Max M sounds like a much 
better idea in your case. Even better to use REG_DWORD instead of 
REG_BINARY if that's possible for you.

-- 
"Codito ergo sum"
Roel Schroeven


From rupole at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 17 14:11:36 2004
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:11:36 -0400
Subject: win32com extension help
References: <584da15e.0410170900.3f090aa4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4172b3c6$1_2@127.0.0.1>


"Peter Sparago" <psparago at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:584da15e.0410170900.3f090aa4 at posting.google.com...
> (Sorry in advance for the long post.)
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm having a great deal of difficulty buiding a Python COM extension.
> I am using the MSHTML ActiveX control in my application but I need to
> interact with and implement some Custom COM interfaces. All is well
> with the basic operation of the control using Python.
>
> Basically, I want to take over the right-click (context) menu from
> MSHTML. To do this (to the best of my knowledge), you must request the
> ICustomDoc interface from the control and set up your own
> implementation of the IDocHostUIHandler interface. In Python COM
> extension lingo, I need an ICustomDoc interface and an
> IDocHOstUIHandler gateway.
>
> First off, any link to HOW-TO documentation on this subject would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> I wanted to start with something very simple, so I am trying to
> implement an extension that understands only the ICustomDoc interface.
> I ran makegw and hand-edited the resulting interfaces to get my .PYD
> to compile and link (and even load!).
>
> I pretty much understand the actual implementation of the COM support
> generated by makegw, but I'm very hazy on the extension "wiring"
> necessary to publish this COM support to Python. (i.e. the use of
> PyMethodDef and PyCom_InterfaceSupportInfo etc.)
>


Basically, you construct an array of PyCom_InterfaceSupportInfo's
that contain the interfaces your extension module will implement.
(the PYCOM_INTERFACE_ macros require very strict naming conventions)

When you pass this array to PyCom_RegisterExtensionSupport,
it adds your interfaces to Pythoncom's internal array of supported
interfaces.  This is used to lookup the type object that's used as
a constructor for the Python interface object.

> So, I thought I'd look for a working example and do a knock-off. I'm
> running Python 2.3 and I've downloaded and built pywin32-203. I have
> previously worked in great detail with the IFilter interface, so I
> chose that win32comext project to use as a model. The problem is, when
> I run the demo python code (called filterDemo.py) to exercise the
> IFilter support, it fails with the following error:
>
> C:\Joey\pywin32-203\com\win32comext\ifilter\demo>filterDemo.py
> test.txt

Just a guess here, do you have .py files registered to open with a debug
build of python ?  If so, you'll need to have debug versions of all the
extension
modules (*_d.pyd) alongside the normal .pyd files to be able to
import them.  Or vice-versa, if you only have a debug version of the
extension
built you  won't be able to import it from a normal python.exe.

  hth
       Roger




From Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com  Thu Oct 14 11:03:27 2004
From: Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com (Ames Andreas (MPA/DF))
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:03:27 +0200
Subject: Search-Filter for LDAP (MS Active Directory)
Message-ID: <788E231C269961418F38D3E360D1652526CA45@tndefr-ws00021.tenovis.corp.lan>

Hello,

Dirk Hagemann wrote:

> I'd like to know how to set up a query for all computer-accounts in
> a special part of Active Directory by using LDAP.
>
> Example:
> all computers with a name like "ABC*" at "..., ou=Production,
> DC=business,DC=company,DC=com"
>>From these computers I want to get their OS, Service Pack and some
> other information.

I use python-ldap (http://python-ldap.sf.net/) to access Active
Directory.  Example:

# ----------------- code start -----------------
import ldap, ldapurl

proto = 'ldap'
server = 'youradserver.yourdomain.com'
port = 389

url = ldapurl.LDAPUrl(urlscheme=proto,
                      hostport="%s:%s" % (server,
                      str(port))).initializeUrl()
ldap_obj = ldap.initialize(url)

# !!!password will be on wire in plaintext!!!
ldap_obj = ldap_obj.simple_bind_s('<domainuser>',
                                  '<password>')

# search only within given subtree
base = 'ou=Production, DC=business, dc=yourdomain, dc=com'

# search scope see rfcs for explanation; in your case it's probably:
scope = ldap.SCOPE_SUBTREE

# this is the beef, i.e. the rfc2254 filter the following matches all
# entries in the directory, which might be many.  OTOH, you often have
# server site limits on how much search hits may be returned for a
# single query; I dunno how this is changed within the query (probably
# some filter extension magic I haven't used yet)
query = '(objectclass=*)'

# now your job is to find out the right query string; I don't know if
# for example computer accounts have a special objectclass, so I'll
# just assume it is called 'cAccount'.  Further I don't know which
# attribute type denotes the name of the computer account you
# mentioned; I'll just assume its type is called 'displayname'.  Under
# these assumptions your example above would translate to the
# following query (which won't work because my assumptions are
# certainly wrong):
# query = '(&(objectclass=cAccount)(displayname=abc*))'

# limit the attribute types which you want to see in the result
# the following will give you the values of all attribute types of
# all matching directory entries
res_attrs = ['*']

res = ldap_obj.search_ext_s(base, scope, query, res_attrs)
print res
# ----------------- code end -----------------


I haven't tested this special code but I'm using similar code on a
daily basis.

If you are like many people and don't like plaintext passwords on the
wire you have at least two alternatives:  TLS and SASL.  TLS in Active
Directory means you'll want to use 'ldaps' as the urlscheme (start_tls
doesn't work yet, AFAIK).

I had no luck with sasl (only GSSAPI available in my case).  Although
I can get a TGT with MIT's kinit from my Active Directory server (this
is debian, I dunno how to get the TGT on a Micros~1 platform, but the
MIT's Windows port of their client tools seems to have some support),
there seems to be a bug related to packet sizes (either in AD or in
openldap's libldap).  Maybe
http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-devel/200211/msg00035.html
could get you going.


HTH,

andreas



From noone at here.com  Sun Oct 24 14:13:58 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:13:58 +0100
Subject: wx position of items in list
References: <clgn8j$pu8$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <clgr8d$jrt$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi Alex,

Thanks for helping me again. I'm using the DragImage demo in wx. Here is
some of the code. I am getting the following error  regardless of whether I
use a list or string,  'unsupported operand type(s) for //: 'str' and
'int''.  I've also tried inserting \n into the text, but I can't get that to
work either.


    # Make a shape from some text
        text = ['a', 'b','c','d','z','y','a', 'b','c','d','z','y','a',
'b','c','d','z','y','a', 'b','c','d','z','y']
        text4 = " "+"".join(text)
        bg_colour = wx.Colour(57, 115, 57)  # matches the bg image
        font4 = wx.Font(36, wx.MODERN, wx.NORMAL, wx.NORMAL, 0, "Arial")
        textExtent = self.GetFullTextExtent(text4, font4)

        # create a bitmap the same size as our text
        bmp4 = wx.EmptyBitmap(textExtent[0], textExtent[1])

        # 'draw' the text onto the bitmap
        dc = wx.MemoryDC()
        dc.SelectObject(bmp4)
        dc.SetBackground(wx.Brush(bg_colour, wx.SOLID))
        dc.Clear()
        dc.SetTextForeground(wx.BLACK)
        dc.SetFont(font4)
        dc.DrawText(text4, 0, 0)
        dc.SelectObject(wx.NullBitmap)
        mask4 = wx.Mask(bmp4, bg_colour)
        bmp4.SetMask(mask4)
        shape = DragShape(bmp4)
        shape.text = "Some dragging text"

        for i in text:
            shape.pos = (145, 170 + (i//2)*100)
            self.shapes.append(shape)

Thanks for your time,

Malcolm





From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 26 08:17:16 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:17:16 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <1gm9a9j.s0b279yqpnlvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm9a9j.s0b279yqpnlvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1098793037.22370.249.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 09:17 +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
>    ...
> > The pivotal word here is "you".  The data *you* want to store.  One more
> > time YOU.  I'm not correcting your mangling of English at this point,
> > rather I'm pointing out that it's *you*, not Python, that knows what
> > sort of data *you* want to store.  If *you* want to limit your integers
> > to some arbitrary amount then *you* are going to have to write code to
> > do that.  What *you* need for *your* application isn't necessarily what
> > anyone else needs for theirs.
> 
> This is correct, but optional constraint checking (on all kinds of data
> types) can be a handy feature for many kinds of applications.  It might
> be handy to have a 'type decorator' for that, one which would wrap all
> operations returning a result (and all mutations, for mutables) into
> suitable checks.  If I have a list that's supposed to always be between
> 5 and 8 items, it might be handy to write:
> 

<snip speculative examples>

> Of course, this has nothing to do with silly and arbitrary bounds such
> as 2**31-1.  But constraint checking should not necessarily be ruled out
> as a generally helpful technique.

Not at all.  I do quite a bit of database programming and use
constraints (foreign keys, unique indices, etc) extensively.  The
concept is also in widespread use in GUI programming libraries for
controls that deal with user input (e.g. masked input controls).  In
fact, most controls present in a GUI implicitly constrain user input
(menus, buttons, etc).

Of course what you describe above can be done now using functions and
derived classes, but it would certainly be interesting to have a general
(and concise) way of describing constraints within the language itself.


Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From sean0601 at pchome.com.tw  Tue Oct 12 07:32:19 2004
From: sean0601 at pchome.com.tw (Sean)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 04:32:19 -0700
Subject: EVT_TEXT_ENTER can not be caught in a subclass of wx.Dialog
Message-ID: <684bd072.0410120332.2e732935@posting.google.com>

Hi,
  I found if a wx.TextCtrl is used in a subclass of wx.Dialog, the
event wx.EVT_TEXT_ENTER can not be caught, that is, key code of RETURN
can not be indentified.

class MyDialog(wx.Dialog):
    def __init__(self,parent,pos,size,style):
        ...
        self.t1 = wx.TextCtrl(self, -1, "", size=(125, -1))
        self.t1.Bind(wx.EVT_CHAR, self.OnChar,self.t1)
        ...

    def OnChar(self, event):
        if (event.GetKeyCode() == 13):
            print "%d"%event.GetKeyCode()
        else:
            print "%d"%event.GetKeyCode()
        event.Skip()


How could I effectively bind a handler to EVT_TEXT_ENTER in it?


Thanks,
Sean


From nomail at no.way  Fri Oct 29 13:15:09 2004
From: nomail at no.way (Bats)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:15:09 +0200
Subject: Writing a Python font viewer/manager
References: <clrkae$9uq$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<20041028211454.2A23.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
	<mailman.5655.1099054238.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clttlf$9p3$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Jaime Wyant had this to say:

> The code below works in windows.  I assume it works in linux also.
> 
> The code illustrates how to create a "font-picker".  If you want
> something more advanced, you could roll up your sleeves and create
> your own.  It wouldn't be too bad.  Check out wx.FontEnumerator.
> wx.FontEnumerator will enumerate the fonts on your system (duhhh...)
Thanks for that code. I am still new to wx and guis via Python.
The area that actually displays the font - is that a 'control' or something
I can directly work with? Maybe it can be made longer, have a scroll-bar
and show multiple lines of differing fonts - something like that?

Any QT suggestions?
-- 
Bats
~..~
(I can only post on weekends and rare times during the week.)



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 14 01:26:09 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:26:09 -0700
Subject: Completely INNOCENT Indentation question
In-Reply-To: <1b347673.0410131928.750bcde7@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4846.1097675256.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1b347673.0410131928.750bcde7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041013222108.0954.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Because you work with a text editor that shows an 'outline' 
> of your code based on the indentation, and you want the outline
> structure to be reflected in the comments.
> 
> ### documentation
>     """ This is a python script that does some stuff.
>     Not only does it do stuff, it's documented stuff. 
>     """
> ### initialize python
>     import foo
>     import bar
> 
> ### do some stuff
>     print foo.frobilize()
> 
> ### do some other stuff
>     print bar.babelize()
> 
> ### end of python
> 
> 
> Yes the question may remain ... why would anyone wanna do 
> that? Well, there are reasons. Whatever the justifications
> may be, the 'additional language statements' workaround will
> apparently have to suffice.


Considering that many text editors, program editors, IDEs, etc., come
with syntax highlighting, would using different colors for comments be
sufficient?  They tend work well for me.  In terms of an outline, many
editors also have the ability to pull out comments of a certain format,
pull out function and class names, etc.

I'm curious as to what editor you use that has such an outline feature.

 - Josiah



From deets.nospaaam at web.de  Thu Oct 21 10:01:32 2004
From: deets.nospaaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:01:32 +0200
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch> <2tpkd4F21cs2oU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cl86oo$2sf6$1@news.imp.ch> <2tppjpF22ebjhU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5259.1098366177.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2tptr3F22rpa8U1@uni-berlin.de>

>> But you _can't_ only read what has been changed in the file - there is no
>> such thing neither in python, nor the underlying OSses (which is the
>> reason for python not having such a functionality)
> IMO it is possible (don't know exactly how) on journalized file systems.

I seriously doubt  that  - at least that this sort of diff you can get is
more than only a list of file-offsets together with blocks of a certain
size. The os doesn't do versioned updates like subverision or cvs do. So
most times, that won't be of much use (think of xml-data - howto replace
only certain parts, that not neccelarily respect the structural
requirements of xml?)

But as long as the OP doesn't fill us in with more details of what he is
after ,  this is all idle speculation.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Tue Oct 19 18:14:02 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 22:14:02 GMT
Subject: Python Newbie
References: <cl3u9n$2r0$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <20041019181402.03406.00001614@mb-m25.aol.com>

I thought I'd say if you're in school like I am, you're gonna get all the C++
you ever wanted and then some, maybe perl as well.  I know my school has a Perl
course as an elective and Perl is heavily used in the bioinformatics course. 
But on the plus side, I've found Python to help a wonderful support group set
up, I've even had advice directly from the Python designer.  I can't think of
any other language where that has the remotest chance of happening.  


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 11 21:27:56 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:27:56 GMT
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmm29m.8la.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <416b2851.22555543@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:29:11 -0000, Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote:

>In article <10mlsct69hmtgca at corp.supernews.com>, Jeff Shannon wrote:
>> gabriele renzi wrote:
>>>
>>> then what you want is a better lambda. One where you can use return, 
>>> maybe, and  where you can have statements and multiple expressions.
>>> Don't throw away the baby with the bathwater.
>> 
>> But because of Python's line- and indentation-based syntax, doing all of 
>> that on a single line is... um... awkward at best, to put it mildly.  
>
>This is true. I think that Ruby's code block syntax offers a workable
>alternative. Many will dispute this, saying it's too ugly, but this is
>subjective and not based on any technical reasons. Here is what I've
>proposed in the past:
>
>def with_open_file(filename, proc):
>    f = open(filename)
>    try:
>        proc(f)
>    finally:
>        f.close()
>        
>with_open_file('data.txt', {|f|
>    for line in f:
>        print line
>})
>
>This is nearly identical to Ruby's syntax, except that instead of creating
>an object with a call method, it creates a callable.
>
How about extending lambda? E.g.,

 with_open_file('data.txt', lambda f:<
     for line in f:
         print line 
 >:) 

I.e., the first non-white-space after the initial ':<' defines suite indentation,
and a corresponding (to allow nesting) '>:' closes the lambda body (without necessarily
having to be out-dented). Hence you could do a one liner for the above example:

 with_open_file('data.txt', lambda f:< for line in f: print line >:) 

IMO, if you are familiar with lambda,

    lambda f:< ... >:

is less of a jump than

    {|f| ... }

What did I forget? ;-)

Obviously
    lambda f:expr
can also be spelled
    lambda f:< return expr >:

>> And once you make a lambda multiline, then you lose most of the point of 
>> it -- at least, as far as I understand what the point is (having an 
>> in-line, anonymous callable).  Once you allow statements and multiple 
>> expressions, all you're gaining is anonymity, which seems like a pretty 
>> paltry benefit to me.
>
>It's not so much the anonymity that matters, it's the ability to use them as
>expressions. It allows you to create your own control structures without
>disrupting the logical flow of your program. For instance, right now in
>Python you'd have to write the above like this:
>
>def doit(f):
>    for line in f:
>        print line
>
>with_open_file('data.txt', doit)
>
>To me, this reads, "When I say 'doit', I mean iterate through each line in
>some given object 'f', and print that line. Now, with the open file, 'doit'."
>Whereas, in the previous example, I'm saying, "With the open file, for each
>line in the file, print the line." The difference is subtle, perhaps, but
>the need to define a named function beforehand rearranges my code in a way
>that I'm not particularly fond of.
I agree.
>
[...]
>I actually discovered lambdas in Python first (well, technically Tcl, but I
>didn't know it at the time), and since then I have done a lot of programming
>in Python. In fact, it would be safe to say that Python biases my use of
>other languages to a greater degree than any other language biases my use of
>Python. I don't use lambdas very often, but their use does come up, and I
>would rather see them become more powerful (or see code blocks added to the
>language) than have them be removed entirely. I'd like to see a ternary
>operator too. Guido would have probably added one by now, but nobody could
>agree on which syntax would be most "Pythonic". The same fate, I fear, is in
>store for any sufficiently advanced anonymous function syntax in Python.
>
>(Yet, somehow, decorators slipped through, even though nobody agreeed on a
>syntax for that either. I don't have a rational explanation for that...)

Maybe we can piggyback on that ;-)

    @lambda f:<
        f.__name__ += '_decorated_by_an_extended_lambda'
        return f >:
    def foo(): pass
    
Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jackson.pip at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 04:29:48 2004
From: jackson.pip at gmail.com (pip)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 01:29:48 -0700
Subject: Referencing objects own functions
References: <48a9916d.0410190745.4c9d0536@posting.google.com>
	<1glxgoc.ytb70mbla970N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <48a9916d.0410200029.63d0fe6a@posting.google.com>

Alex,

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1glxgoc.ytb70mbla970N%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> pip <jackson.pip at gmail.com> wrote:
> > [...]
> > I would like to add another entry to the commands dict. called 'func'
> > or something which contains a reference to a function in the foo
> > class. What would the entry look like if atall possible?
> > 
> > I would rather not use eval if possible.
> [...]
> getattr(f, f.commands['func'])()

Just what I was looking for.

Thanks all for your help,

Pip


From jerf at jerf.org  Mon Oct 11 00:08:49 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:08:49 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.10.16.48.24.930075@jerf.org>
	<4169982d.4238722751@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.10.19.48.01.604089@jerf.org>
	<4169c7ad.4250882926@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.11.00.12.36.26295@jerf.org>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 02:19:03 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:24:57 GMT, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
>>For positive numbers, a number really is its vector of bits. In the
>               ^^^^^[1]              [2]^^ ^^^[3]        ^^^^[4]
> [1] Abstract, non-negative integers?

Integers is more convenient here, but any one dimensional number will do.
It so happens that computers do not encode "reals" in the naive way, to
allow for more variation in magnitude.

> [2] "is" as in "is identical with"? I doubt it.

With respect, this isn't something to doubt or not doubt. There is one,
and only one, way to represent any positive number in base two, since
encoding sign is not an issue. Assuming an extra bit to show sign, there
is one and only one way to represent any negative number, too. (Zero gets
to be the exception since then you can have positive and negative zero,
which are theoretically identical, but on some machines that implement
them have practical differences.)

Endianness is just some wackiness in the ordering, but does not really
change that. 60000 + 50000 = 110000 no matter what endianess you have.

> [3] In what sense does an abstract number posess (its) a vector of bits?

It does not. It *is* a series of ones and zeros, in base two. It *is* a
series of ones, zeros, and twos, in base three. It *is* a series of [0-9]
in base ten. It is all of these things at once, and an infinite number of
other things besides.

1 + 1 fully *is* 2. There is no difference mathematically. If there is,
your math is broken.

> [4] A two's complement representation of an (abstract) integer, has
> "bits"
>     as _numerical_ values in the sum series with corresponding numerical
>     coefficients that are powers of two. But "bits" in the context of
>     bitwise ^ or & or | do not represent abstract _numerical_ values or
>     0 or 1, they represent logical values False or True (and 0<->False,
>     1<->True is just a convention that we're used to.

No. They represent both of those things at once. 1 *is* True, and 0 *is*
false, in the domain of bitwise operators. 

There is no "either/or" here, only "both/and".

> IOW, there's no such thing as "a base 10 number"...  A "base 10 number" is composed with a set of
> digits [0-9] and a rule for ordered composition and a rule for an
> interpretation to map back to the abstract value. 

Well, I thank you for supplying the missing definition, I suppose.

> We can discuss each
> part of this process, but the bottom line is that when we say that
> represented values are equal, we are saying that representations map
> back to the same unique abstract value, not that representations per se
> are identical.

Yep, that is part of my point, see below.

>>>     What is boolvec(388488839405842L) ^ boolvec("hello")?
>>
>>I'd rather see this as the fairly meaningless "388488839405842L base 2",
>>meaningless because the base of a number does not affect its value, and
>>bitwise-xor, as the name implies, operates on the number base two.
> Well, to be nit-picky, I still think it does not really operate on a
> number at all. It converts a number to an ordered set of bools, by way
> of an intermediate two's complement _representation_ whose _numeric_ bit
> values are mapped to bool values. Then, after the operating with the
> ordered sets of bools, the resulting set is mapped back to a two's
> complement integer representation again, which can be interpreted as an
> abstract integer value again ;-)

In the domain of binary logic, I do not concede a difference between "1"
and "True", on the grounds that there is no way in the domain of binary
logic to distinguish the two.

> IOW, a typical float is a 64-bit IEEE-754 double, so there are 2**64
> possible states of the representation machinery. Not all of those states
> are legal floating point number representations, but each one that _is_
> legal corresponds to an _exact_ abstract real value. It _can_ be the
> exact value you wanted to represent, or not, depending on your
> programming problem. Inexactness in not a property of floating point
> representations, it is a property of their _relation_ to the exact
> abstract values the programmer is trying to represent. 0.0 represents
> the exact same abstract value as integer 0 (perhaps by way of mapping
> integers conceived as separate to a subset of reals).

This is a matter of definition. My problem with your definition mostly
lies in the fact that it is not as practically useful as mine. Someone
operating on the "floats are almost, but not quite, exact values" is
*much* less well equipped to handle the way floats bite you than someone
who operates with "floats represent a value and have an error range around
that value", because then they should understand they need to compute not
just with the values, but track the buildup of that error range as well.
It's a point-of-view thing.

>>can be made arbitrarily small but never truly identifies one point. This
> I disagree. 0.0 truly identifies one point. So does
> 
>     3.141592653589793115997963468544185161590576171875
> 
> which is the _exact_ value of math.pi in decimal representation. But
> this is _not_ the exact value of the abstract mathematical pi.

Python 2.3.4 (#1, Sep 28 2004, 20:15:25) 
[GCC 3.3.3 20040412 (Gentoo Linux 3.3.3-r6, ssp-3.3.2-2, pie-8.7.6)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>  3.1415926535897931159979634685441851615905761718758327502398752309 == 3.14159265358979311599796346854418516159057617187500000000000
True

Look at the last digits. (Python is just a convenience here, this is
fundamental to all float representation schemes, as opposed to things like
Decimal.)

This is why I say they represent a range. In set theory, we'd call this an
equivalence class for equality. There is *no* way to distinguish between 
3.1415926535897931159979634685441851615905761718758327502398752309 and
3.14159265358979311599796346854418516159057617187500000000000 with floats
(of the size Python uses, add more digits for some other bit count), not
even in theory. They are the same in every way. That's because the closest
float represents a range that covers them both. You can shrink that range
arbitrarily small but you can not get to a unique point, such that only
one true real will compare equal to that number and all others do not, not
even in theory.


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Wed Oct 20 15:29:34 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:29:34 -0400
Subject: Free hosting for Python open-source projects
In-Reply-To: <864d3709041020043157112ddd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <864d370904101914067b7a1728@mail.gmail.com>	
	<41758B13.3020301@cloudthunder.com>
	<864d3709041020043157112ddd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4176BC9E.6070804@cloudthunder.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:45:55 -0400, Richard Blackwood
><richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Why do you require a mailing-list as part of the same service?
>>    
>>
>
>Well, it doesn't need to be part of the service, but I think it would
>be more convenient if I could manage everything from a single service
>interface -- pretty much like SourceForge used to work. My experience
>with SF hasn't being good -- the main problem being the long delays on
>CVS and mail, and on top of that, a very confusing interface. For now
>I'm thinking about using Google Groups 2 (still beta) for it.
>
>
>  
>
See:
http://www.thefreecountry.com/webmaster/mailinglists.shtml


From dolzenko at rsu.ru  Tue Oct  5 07:36:28 2004
From: dolzenko at rsu.ru (Eugeni Doljenko)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:36:28 +0400
Subject: Python as VBA replacement
Message-ID: <01cb01c4aacf$8df8edf0$b0fcd0c3@cooler>

Yes, topic has been discussed a lot, i know. But i wonder if someone could 
come up with mature solution.
So far i've read about writing COM servers in Python for calling them from 
VBA.
IMO it's possible to write some kind of generic COM server (because of 
Python dynamic nature)suitable to executing arbitrary Python code.
May be even more tighter integration is possible?

TIA,
Eugeni Doljenko

P.S. i'm just so tired with hand coding standart "Url decode" function, and 
searching for reasonable alternative for iconv in this crappy language of 
procedures, directives and arbitrary (!) arrays base offset (i use 0, my 
friend uses 1, why somebody will not use 2 or 3). sorry for off topic PS. 




From jeffrey at fro.man  Tue Oct  5 12:02:12 2004
From: jeffrey at fro.man (Jeffrey Froman)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:02:12 -0700
Subject: Proper use of __file__
References: <cjud90$lbq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <10m5hc4mn8j3l04@corp.supernews.com>

Darren Dale wrote:

> Would somebody explain how to use __file__? I mean, what information it
> carries, and more importantly, when it does and does not exist? A one line
> script:
> 
> print __file__
> 
> will yield the relative path if run from a shell, but will raise NameError
> when the script is run interactively from the interpreter. Is this the
> intended behavior?

__file__ is the name of the file in which the statement containing
"__file__" appears. If your file foo.py reads:

print __file__

You can run "import foo" from the interpreter, and it will print "foo.py",
just like if you ran "python foo.py". But if you run "print __file__" in
the interpreter directly, NameError is raised because the call is not being
made from any file, so __file__ is undefined.

It is most certainly intended.

Hope that helps,
Jeffrey


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct  5 09:15:30 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 06:15:30 -0700
Subject: IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
References: <mailman.4079.1096469961.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410050515.b21eea3@posting.google.com>

Nigel King <nigel.king at orthogonsystems.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4079.1096469961.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> I have a problem with the logging module.
> 
> It reports a Broken Pipe error after outputing to the log file 
> occasionally (5%). This does not appear to happen on Mac OSX using 
> current finked python (2.3.3) but does appear to occur on Python 2.3.4 
> running on a very old Redhat Linux xxxxx 2.2.14-5.0 #1 Tue Mar 7 
> 21:07:39 EST 2000 i686. The actual logged error follows my signature. 
> Note that "files used:-" has been sent to the file.
[snip]

This does not seem to be an error with the logging module itself, but
due to the fact that a write to sys.stderr (from the traceback module)
causes the error to be raised. Are you sure that all you need to do is
to set default signal handling for SIGPIPE?

If you set raiseExceptions to false in the logging module, no
exceptions will be raised by the logging module. Otherwise, you can
subclass the handler and override handleError() to treat EPIPE
appropriately.

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 13:02:20 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:02:20 +0200
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<864d3709041003152471cf26fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4389.1097014212.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8nji.c9swnaj31o85N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4425.1097073242.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl90h3.1ytqrsq16yer2dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Gustavo Niemeyer <niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:

> Hello Alex!
> 
> > > Of course, in your example, not using the 'i=i' trick would be a
> > > problem, since the 'i' variable is lost, and inside the method a
> > > global is looked for, creating an error.
> >
> > True, the opcode for i is indeed a LOAD_GLOBAL.  Why _that_ should be
> > the case is anything but an 'of course' to _me_, though, as we just
> 
> Sorry, my intention was to say that removing "i=i" would be
> clearly a problem, not that the whole issue was clear.

Sorry, I should have inserted smilies -- I did get your intended meaning
and was just playing around with the words!

> > any potential confusion here) to specifically ensure that -- I guess
> > it's for backwards compatibility with old Python versions which didn't
> > have nested scopes, otherwise any barename in a method would refer first
> 
> In this case, the external closure must be the global scope, otherwise,
> code like this:
> 
> class C:
>     var = 1
>     def method(self):
>       print var
> 
> Would show self.__class__.var, when it shouldn't.

IMHO the only reason it shouldn't is backwards compatibility with old
Python versions, as I mentioned above.  It's a good reason, mind you,
but maybe in Python 3000 we can rethink this issue, too.


> > to the classbody (acting as its 'outer function') which could shadow
> > globals.  A bit confusing for an "of course", nevertheless;-).
> 
> Again, I'm sorry. My "of course" should be more closely related to the
> fact that removing "i=i" would be a problem, as was my original
> intention.  Even if the internal 'i' was bound to a closure, as you
> seem to belive would be the expected behavior, the OP's code would end
> up doing the wrong thing.

Exactly, and _that_ would be the normal way to fail -- omitting to
"snapshot" some variables, of which we want the _current_ value, and
which may still be changing... (incidentally a strong argument against
certain... hmmmm... "beings", who claim it's "undisputably wrong" that
default values get evaluated ONCE, at def-time...).


Alex


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 23:29:32 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 20:29:32 -0700
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5154.1098151998.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glwwg1.1hgx2561vflstbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410201929.3bc062bc@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1glwwg1.1hgx2561vflstbN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> That is the book I want to write, the one I have always wanted to write;
> the Nutshell and the Cookbook (and now their second editions) keep
> delaying that plan, but, in a sense, that's good, because I keep
> accumulating useful experiences to enrich those notes, and Python keeps
> growing (particularly but not exclusively in terms of third-party
> extensions and tools) in ways that refine and sometimes indeed redefine
> some key aspects.  To give a simple technical example: I used to have
> substantial caveats in those notes cautioning readers to use multiple
> inheritance in an extremely sparing, cautious way, due to traps and
> pitfalls that made it fragile.  Nowadays, with the advent of 2.3, most
> of those traps and pitfalls have gone away (in the newstyle object
> model), to the point that the whole issue can be reconsidered.
> 

Uhm ... I must say that I was quite keen of Multiple Inheritance
but having seen the (ab)use of it in Zope I am starting questioning 
the wisdom of it. The problem I see with MI (even done well) is that
you keep getting methods from parent classes and each time you have
to think about the MRO and the precedence rules. It is an additional
burden in the programmer's mind. I miss the clean simple concept of 
superclass; the  MRO may be cool but it is not as simple to learn, to
teach
and especially remember. Notice, I am not referring to the algorithm,
it is
not important to remember it; what is disturbing to me is to be aware 
that the resolution of the methods can be non-trivial and that I
should call .mro() each time to check exactly what is happening.
Also 'super' is hard to understand and to use :-(
So, I wonder if Matz was right after all and single inheritance +
mixins
? la Ruby are the right way to go. Yes, from a purist point of view
they are inferior to MI, however from the pragramatist point
of view I don't think you loose very much, and you get a big gain in
short learning curve and expliciteness. Especially 'super' stays
simple.

However I lack experience in Ruby with mixins: do you have experience
or do you know people with experience on that? What they think?
Are they happy with the approach or they wish Ruby had real MI?
Of course in simple systems there is no real issue, I am talking
about large systems. Also, I am not talking about wrong design choice
(for
instance Zope 3 use MI much less than Zope 2: I interpret this as a
recognition that the design was wrong) but in general: assuming you
have
an application where the "right" design is via mixins, is there a real
difference in doing it ? la Ruby or with real MI?
It does not look there is a big difference, in practice. 
Yes, you do not have the full power of cooperative methods but you 
also avoid the burden of them and you can always find workarounds; I
would
say there are compensations. 

I have not yet a definite opionion on this point, so I would like to
hear the opinion of others, especially people with real world
experience in complex
systems.

   Michele Simionato


From werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com  Wed Oct 27 02:20:54 2004
From: werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com (Werner Merkl)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:20:54 +0200
Subject: py2exe and UPPER CASE file system
In-Reply-To: <u0sj3r19.fsf@python.net>
References: <clim4g$3nv$3@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com> <u0sj3r19.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <clneo6$5ve$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> Werner Merkl <werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>
>>my problem is, I try to use a py2exe compiled python script from a
>>CD-ROM. This should work, BUT the tool I use (or have to use)
>>generates only upper case file names on the CD-ROM.
>>
>>For py2exe 0.4.1 and python 2.2 this worked fine... but the current
>>releases do not.
> 
> 
> I would say if it worked it was a bug ;-).

Oops... I thought, this was by intention, because py2exe 0.4.1 has its 
own module loader...

> Does it work in newer versions when you set the PYTHONCASEOK environment
> variable?
Yes, this would work, BUT if I start a Python EXE directly from CD, then 
normally this variable is NOT set...

So I need to set it inside the Python EXE or run a C wrapper to set the 
environment variable and than start my Python EXE.

BTW: I tried to "import os" or "import OS as os" to add 
"os.environment['PYTHONCASEOK'] = '1'" inside, but this seemed not to work.


regards
Werner


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Mon Oct 11 19:46:58 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 23:46:58 GMT
Subject: Python email
References: <20041011174533.19211.00002356@mb-m03.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20041011194658.26518.00002146@mb-m03.aol.com>

I still want to know about that POP3Magic thing, but I finally got this
working.  I couldn't figure out why until just now.  First I made sure I
retrieved the message as a list, then I iterated through it and concantenated
all that together into a string.  Then I cast that as an email object.  I
couldn't get the subsomething iterator thing to work, but I was able to walk
through it and check each part for content type.  If anyone's interested here's
my code I used to test to see that this actually  worked:
for x in M.retr(i)[1]:
            stringMail += x
            stringMail += '\n'
        inMail = email.message_from_string(stringMail)
        for part in inMail.walk():
            if part.get_content_type() == 'text/html':
                print part


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Tue Oct 19 09:18:36 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:18:36 +0200
Subject: mod_python apache configuration issues
In-Reply-To: <JEHcd.18465$Qv5.4308@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>
References: <JEHcd.18465$Qv5.4308@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <cl347b$es3$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

digidalmation wrote:
> Hello all.  I've been trying to get my linux server to run mod_python.
> It's a Mandrake 10 linux box, and apache/mod_python are installed from 
> rpms.
> apache2-mod_python-2.0.48_3.1.3-1mdk
> apache2-2.0.48-6mdk
> 
> 
> The rpm installed the python module as:
> /usr/lib/apache2-extramodules/mod_python.so
> 
> And added a config file for apache:
> /etc/httpd/conf.d/16_mod_python.conf
> 
> The apache config files contained the following before my modifications:
> <IfDefine HAVE_PYTHON>
>   <IfModule !mod_python.c>
>     LoadModule python_module    extramodules/mod_python.so
>   </IfModule>
> </IfDefine>
> <IfModule mod_python.c>
> </IfModule>
> 
> Now after reading the docs installed into /usr/share/doc for mod_python
> and going through the directions at python.org, I've also changed the
> config file to add a few lines to one of the directives:
> 
> <Directory /var/www/html>
>     Options -Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews
>     AllowOverride All
>     AddHandler mod_python .py
>     PythonHandler mptest
>     PythonDebug On
> </Directory>
> 
> Now when I put the url into a browser:
> http://myserver.mydomain.com/mptest.py
> 
> I get a popup from the browser because it doesn't know how to handle
> mptest.py, and it asks what you want to do with the file (open it with
> an application, save it to disk, etc).  I can choose to open the file
> with a text editor, and all it shows is the text "hello world".
> 
> That's the output of the mptest.py script....  apache isn't feeding the
> browser the code from the mptest.py, only the output.  (Otherwise when I
> open it in a text editor I'd see the entire mptest.py script.
> 
> Contents of the mptest.py script:
> from mod_python import apache
> 
> def handler(req):
>         req.write("Hello World!")
>         return apache.OK
> 
> I'm not a python developer, but have been working with Linux and Apache
> for a number of years.  I'm not sure where to go from here.  It appears
> that the script gets compiled - there is a mptest.pyc file in the
> directory now.  Why is it sending my browser the mptest.py file with the
>  stdout of the script?
> 
> Thanks in advance.  Any help on this is appreciated.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 

This is working properly, all you want to do is set the content type so 
that your browser can understand it:
req.content_type = "text/plain"
or something like that should do it.

David


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Wed Oct 27 15:34:31 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:34:31 +0200
Subject: gantt charts with python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5581.1098899120.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5581.1098899120.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417ff82d$0$279$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Andreas Kaiser wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> is there a module to create gantt charts?

http://www.logilab.org/projects/pygantt/project_view




From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 18 10:41:23 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:41:23 -0400
Subject: relational email repository
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5116.1098110303.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <rrQcd.2905$lp6.2339@okepread01>
	<mailman.5116.1098110303.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <YGQcd.2907$lp6.2033@okepread01>

Matt Goodall wrote:

> On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 10:24 -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>A while ago someone posted a reference to a relational architecture for 
>>storing rfc2822-compliant emails, but I can't for the life of me find it 
>>through Google. Anyone? Thanks a lot.
> 
> 
> Catchmail, <http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mysite/catchmail.htm>,
> perhaps? Here's a link to the announcement,
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-October/243870.html>.
> 
> Cheers, Matt
> 
I was actually the Yukatan data model I was looking for, but the 
catchmail reference got me there. Thanks a lot!

regards]
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 15:13:53 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:13:53 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <4162F271.9060407@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
>Terribly interesting, but well nigh impossible to corroborate.
>
>Take for example if I were to claim that I were a graduate student in
>computer science theory at the University of California, Irvine.  A
>little bit of investigation would lead you to discover that I am
>likely the person I claim to be (header examination, university search,
>etc.).
>
>  
>
I could care less honestly.

>On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be a magic incantation for
>google that leads one to your wife's web page in the first few pages of
>results (if she is a professor, she probably has one), nor any way to
>corroborate your story in any reasonable fashion, based on information
>you have posted so far.
>
>  
>
She's not a professor, she teaches middle school social science 
(primarily history which is her specialty).

>What I would like (if you would do me this favor), is a reasonable
>amount of evidence to prove you are who you claim you are.  This has no
>reason other than to allow me to feel less of an ass for responding to
>your 40+ questions last evening. You don't need to post this to the
>entire python-list.  If you satisfy me, I'll even post to python-list
>that I believe you are who you claim you are.
>
>Would you do me this favor?
> - Josiah
>
>  
>
I'm really not interested in playing games or divulging personal 
information to complete strangers.  The way you phrase it, "If you 
satisfy me", as if you were some sort of devil or something.  I am 
grateful that you answered my questions, and did not expect anyone to 
attempt to answer all of them.  I was hoping people who were experts in 
X would respond to questions pertaining to X and nothing else.  A lot of 
question could have been answered in the docs, true.  But modules for 
example, the docs don't tell me at all that I can use modules as 
variables and that I can pass them into and out of functions/methods. 

Anyhow, excuse my ignorance.  Who I am is really not a concern.  If I 
was a student, I wouldn't be on the computer from 10:00 in the morning 
to 3:00 at night.  I'd have class.  I think you did me a favor, but the 
favor you ask is far too personal.  People on usenet seem to have 
something vicious in them and I have no intent to play that game.

I'll come back to usenet when I have more explicit and specific 
questions relating to Python.


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Oct 11 22:47:43 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:47:43 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4728.1097533233.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4728.1097533233.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10mmh9i511urd2c@corp.supernews.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

>Jeff Shannon wrote:
>  
>
>>Maybe I'm just ignorant or behind the times, but I still 
>>haven't seen a 
>>real argument as to *why* lambdas are so useful.  There's some 
>>assertions about how avoiding giving something a name makes things 
>>clearer, which I disagree with.  ('Explicit is better than 
>>implicit.'  I 
>>don't see how 'no name' makes the purpose of a code segment 
>>clearer than 
>>'some meaningfully descriptive name', no matter how many times it's 
>>asserted.)  There's complaints that it takes a whole two 
>>extra lines to 
>>type a proper function def, as opposed to being able to use lambdas 
>>inline... but again, I'd claim that with a properly named 
>>function, the 
>>intent at point-of-use will be quite clear and the cost of two extra 
>>lines of code is minimal.
>>    
>>
>
>All I can say is, "sometimes it's not minimal". Adapters are a great
>example:
>
>xforms = {dejavu.icontains: lambda x, y: x + " Like '%" + y[1:-1] +
>"%'",
>          dejavu.icontainedby: icontainedby,
>          dejavu.istartswith: lambda x, y: x + " Like '" + y[1:-1] +
>"%'",
>          dejavu.iendswith: lambda x, y: x + " Like '%" + y[1:-1] + "'",
>          dejavu.ieq: lambda x, y: x + " = " + y,
>          dejavu.now: lambda: "Now()",
>          dejavu.today: lambda: "DateValue(Now())",
>          dejavu.year: lambda x: "Year(" + x + ")",
>          }
>
>Conciseness is a continuum. I understand (and agree with) your
>contention that many lambdas wouldn't suffer from a full function
>definition. Writing the above with full functions, however, would take
>us to the other extreme end of the continuum, which is boilerplate for
>boilerplate's sake. (If I ever write another unnecessary Java
>getter/setter pair, shoot me. ;)
>  
>

Well, all I can say is that I had to sit down and work through some 
examples to figure out what each of those lambdas would do.  It looks 
like a tangled mess of punctuation and x's and y's to me.  Maybe this 
just means I'm stupid, but... ::shrug::

I'm also not sure what the point is of defining a callable that returns 
a literal string, but I suppose you're just following a protocol 
established elsewhere.

Personally, I'd be likely to solve this particular issue by defining a 
make_formatter() function:

def make_formatter(format):
    def formatter(*args):
        return format % tuple(args)
    return formatter

xforms = {dejavu.icontains: make_formatter("%s Like '%%%s%%'"),
          dejavu.icontainedby: icontainedby,
          dejavu.istartswith: make_formatter("%s Like '%s%%'"),
          dejavu.iendswith: make_formatter("%s Like '%%%s'"),
          dejavu.ieq: make_formatter("%s = %s"),
          dejavu.now: make_formatter("Now()"),
          dejavu.today: make_formatter("DateValue(Now())"),
          dejavu.year: make_formatter("Year(%s)")
          }

# [...]
xforms[dejavu.icontains](x, y[1:-1])

I'm not sure that this is much clearer than your example, but I 
certainly don't think it's worse.  (Admittedly, much of the gain in my 
eyes comes from using string interpolation rather than addition, which 
looks clunky and ugly to me, but I suppose that tastes may vary...)

I suppose that the fact that all of these methods just happen to be 
building strings may be an artifact of the specific example, rather than 
a general case.  I haven't really needed to use adapters, so I can't 
really say how often a general transformation along these lines might be 
applicable...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 19:00:57 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 01:00:57 +0200
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5625.1098987033.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fr2852-cj5.ln1@lairds.us>
	<mailman.5639.1099000471.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gme7k3.1en9hmk1cin67kN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

kosh <kosh at aesaeion.com> wrote:
   ...
> Here is the method I see on making programs fast in python.

  [[ snipped lots of well-argued explanations ]]

I also like Kent Beck's summary of basically the same ideas:

    Make it work.  Make it right.  Make it fast.

corresponding to your point 1, 2/3, and 4/7 respectively.

And of course, as part of [1] one SHOULD have a good battery of unit
tests, too.  If one doesn't, [1] isn't really complete -- how does one
_know_ one's program does work?  That battery of unit tests, religiously
rerun at each refactoring, simplification, speedup, and reuse, will be
the best help throughout the 2->7 trip, giving you faster development
and more confidence at each step.

A couple specific comments...:

> Step 6: Look for outside libraries to use like numarray, pil etc. It is better

Sometimes you can also reuse C-interfaced dynamic libraries that way,
via Thomas Heller's 'ctypes' extension.  Since you do have the overhead
of interfacing, that will give you substantial speedup only if each call
into the C-interfaced library does a lot of work, of course.

> Step 7: As a last resort if your program is still not fast enough go ahead and
> write code in a lower level language and call it from python. However be

Here, too, look first for existing, reusable (preferably with-source!)
libraries that can do most of the work you need, leaving your code
mostly as a thin glue, possibly just a bit of looping, custom logic,
etc.  Pyrex can often be the best 'lower level language' to use here,
because its level isn't _that_ much lower, necessarily.  You can start
with Pyrex code that looks 90% like Python, and descend gracefully if
that's needed...


An excellent post - thanks!


Alex


From golux at comcast.net  Sun Oct  3 16:29:06 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 16:29:06 -0400
Subject: epydoc w/ ReST (was: Re: In Praise of Docutils)
In-Reply-To: <69k0m0tl5muu2ro99stdcbdn724eqarj18@4ax.com>
References: <69k0m0tl5muu2ro99stdcbdn724eqarj18@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <41606112.9010802@comcast.net>

Fuzzyman wrote:

> I've just got to see if epydoc can be tweaked to use ResT as it's
> docstring markup and I'll be well happy :-)

The "tweaking" required is well documented:
http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/othermarkup.html


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Wed Oct 13 03:20:33 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 07:20:33 GMT
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mo6q66oi0kj04@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncmplmh.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-10-12, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
>
>>Op 2004-10-11, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
>>  
>>
>>>Lambdas are hard to read, because they're significantly different, 
>>>syntactically, from any other construct in the language
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>I didn't find them so. On the other hand I find having to come up
>>with a name for a function can be very inconvenient and not worth
>>the trouble. If python wants functions to be full fledged objects,
>>is needs some way to have unnamed functions, just as you can have
>>unnamed lists, numbers, instances etc.
>>
>>Can you imaging the protest, from people if it would be decide
>>that no unnamed entities van be used. If you want to use a number
>>or a list, as an argument you first have to name it and then use
>>the name as argument. Well the reason for having anonymous numbers
>>and lists is the same reason for having anonymous functions.
>>  
>>
>
> Functions are at a different level of granularity than numbers and 
> lists.  Anonymity makes sense for numbers and lists; it makes less sense 
> for collections of numbers and lists; and it makes still less sense for 
> organized collections of numbers, lists, and operations thereon, which 
> are structured in a meaningful way to express some (part of an) 
> algorithm.

I find it better to let the coder decide what makes sense in his program
and what not.

> Similarly, I don't expect each line of code to have an 
> individual name, but once I collect lines of code into a file, I 
> certainly *do* expect to name that file, even if the file is only one or 
> two lines long.

So? If you then want to develop the code, do you put the new code in a
new file and then use a program to include it, or do you put unnamed
text in the already existing file?

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 30 03:51:45 2004
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 00:51:45 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>
	<F_9gd.4865$kM.2575@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0410292351.567514b8@posting.google.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message news:
> What's wrong with the example Number wrapper I posted a couple days
> ago to this thread?

How long with this take to run?

>>> a = RangedNumber(2**31, 0, 2**32)
>>> a ** a

I think our inability to write a RangedNumber that piggybacks on
Python's integers should be obvious.

Jeremy


From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Oct 13 10:53:55 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:53:55 -0700
Subject: Snakelets and WSGI
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F74@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Alan Kennedy wrote:
> [Robert Brewer]
>  > Snakelets are more problematic, because WSGI heavily 
> prefers a "server
>  > pull" model over write() calls. You'd probably have to deprecate
>  > Snakelets as written (or wrap write() so it queues their output as
>  > well), replacing them eventually with a model that yields 
> values rather
>  > than calling write().
> 
> Hmm, that's a little heavy handed.

Only if you think I meant "immediately". Take a couple years and it
becomes a nice migration path. ;)


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 02:48:41 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:48:41 +0200
Subject: Yet Another Command Line Parser
References: <5c4tn0latkspkrrlj8r66qj7h35qbpies0@4ax.com>
	<qExfd.3218$kM.28@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gmafuh.1ahlu0w17i82akN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ulBfd.8071$KJ6.3884@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1gmb2ov.x8n25btrkygpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
   ...
> > Not to defend exec (ugly thing it is), but in this case I'm not sure
> > what the security hole would be.
> 
> In some sense we're both right, or wrong.  Security depends on

Yeah, I see your POV.

> > but how are commandline arguments 'untrusted'...?
> 
> I had to think about that for a bit.  Much of the work I do
> (for money or otherwise) ends up being called by some sort
> of web interface or is the interface to such code.  Much of
> the data I use can come from untrusted sources.  So I've
> developed a programming habit of being distrustful of any
> data I get, even if it's from me.
> 
> As a consequence that also means I don't need to think about
> the multiple levels in the system.

Yes: never trusting any data anywhere is a safer habit to acquire, and
if you do get into that mindset your code will have fewer risks of
vulnerabilities.  An "Only the paranoids survive" kind of stance.

However, it's an interesting characteristic of security that it is _not_
free: each security measure, precaution and stance carries a cost in
terms of convenience and productivity.  In any given situation, there
_are_ upper limits to the total amount of such costs that can and will
be born in the name of security.  Thus, I believe it's _good_ for
security to be aware exactly of how much security you're buying, what
threat you are warding off and to what extent, with each security
measure you are taking -- a cost/benefit analysis.

Many practices that weaken security _also_ damage code quality in other
ways, for example by being prone to hard-to-reproduce,
hard-to-track-down bugs.  The 'exec' statement that you criticized
surely falls into that category.  For _those_ practices, I believe that
cost/benefit analysis may well be nearly superfluous: the old slogan
"quality is free" has some truth to it, in as much as the costs of
making good quality code today tend to be repaid with interest in
lowering maintenance costs in the future, enhancing reusability, etc.

So I think a "knee-jerk reaction" against some kinds of 'code smells' is
quite OK.  More generally, I'm not sure "knee-jerk security" is a net
win, though.  The classic example is forcing people to use
12-characters-long, randomly assigned passwords that they can't change:
inevitably they _will_ write those passwords down somewhere, creating
far worse security risks than if some cost-benefit analysis had been
done to find a reasonable compromise between security and practicality.

These are rather general considerations, musings if you will, about
security and development practices, and in no way meant to defend the
'exec' statement you were criticizing.


Alex


From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Mon Oct 11 18:34:20 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:34:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python to Python communication
References: <Xns957F95400C53Ecpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
	<416aa9d9$0$566$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <Xns95805DA35F68cpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>

Hello Irmen,

> Pyro is "ripe"... version 3.0 was released Q4, 2002, so the 3.x
> versions have been around and in active use for 2 years now.

That is really good information! Thank you. "active for 2 years" is 
rather "mature" then only "ripe" :)))

> I've been talking about Pyro 4.0 for a long time, but we haven't
> even begun the real design of it. 
> What is it that makes you shudder?

Really exactly that :))) I do not know you at all; as I said: your 
presentation, the documentation and the voices within c.l.p. give me a 
very positive feeling towards you and your software. So all my 
"shuddering" comes from this bits of information: "the author of a 
product thinks to further develop it a complete redesign - not a gradual 
upgrade - is necessary - so maybe I should wait for that" :)) And the 
fear, that new ideas will be postponed to the imaginary future version. 
(I tend do to such things with my own projects, too )

So I will give a very deep look at PyRo and spread... especially because 
I need that "peer to peer"

Thank you all for your support!

Harald



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Oct 13 08:28:10 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:28:10 +0200
Subject: windows
References: <mailman.4811.1097649067.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckj70q$85o$02$2@news.t-online.com>

Ajay wrote:

> hi!
> 
> i have two tkinter windows on top of each other. i would like it so that
> the user has to complete the fields in the top windows before they can
> interact with the window below it. that is, i dont want the user to close
> the top window or minimize it or send it into the background.

Look for grab, and what it does.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jbors at mail.ru  Thu Oct 21 02:45:37 2004
From: jbors at mail.ru (Dmitry Borisov)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:45:37 -0700
Subject: ANN: PyCar-1.2.3.0-pre1 released
Message-ID: <00f801c4b739$93923cf0$0200a8c0@amr.corp.intel.com>

Hi everyone,
Just wanted to let you know that PyCar-1.2.3.0-pre1 is available for download.
At this time only Windows binary, but I plan to release Linux ISO in 2 weeks with even more features

What is it ?
------------------
PyCar is a car multimedia center written fully in Python( even video player ), using PyMedia package.
It features the following:
- Plays mp3, mp2, ogg, ac3, wma
- Plays audio disks
- Plays avi, VideoCD, SVCD and DVDs
- Shows media information for all supported formats
- Displays album pictures( cover art )
- Playlists
- Interacts with LCD
- local CDDB support for Audio disks
    ( take a copy from the http://freecddb.org )
- i18n compatible, russian language translation included
- Adjustable cache size for skip free playback while on the road
- Touch screen friendly
- Skinnable

Installation
-----------
Just unzip pycar-xxxx.zip to any location you want and run configure.exe first to point to the right location where your media files are.
Then run pycar.exe.

See pics and more info at: http://pymedia.org/pycar
Windows binary available: https://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=276836

Enjoy !
Dmitry/
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From dw at botanicus.net  Sat Oct 23 11:06:49 2004
From: dw at botanicus.net (David Wilson)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:06:49 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <2-idnfYPRs9d8-fcRVn-oA@powergate.ca>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5357.1098540970.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jtidnZlHj6049OfcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5359.1098542166.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2-idnfYPRs9d8-fcRVn-oA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <20041023150649.GA6884@thailand.botanicus.net>

On Sat, Oct 23, 2004 at 10:46:24AM -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:

> Ah, there's the conflict.  For the simpler stuff I'm picturing, I
> don't have a *separate* parser which serves solely to read the file
> and return the information therein in a form that requires a different
> object to preserve and provide later access to it.  I bundle those
> babies together so, in my mind and despite seeing the name and reading
> your various comments repeatedly, it wasn't clear to me that we were
> implicitly (?) leaving out all other issues of configuration, leaving
> only the tiny parsing bit.
> 
> My apologies for misunderstanding your point.

No problem. ;)


For your first statement, IMHO the attribute access pattern isn't all
that useful anyway, unless you are explicitly working in strings. Here's
a wee example:

    self._listen_port = 12345
    ....

    try:
        self._listen_port = int(config.general.listen_port)
    except ValueError, e:
        raise Error("listen port is invalid")

    if self._listen_port <= 1024 or self._listen_port > 65535:
        raise Error("listen port is not in valid range")

    ....

Assuming your config object doesn't contain a bug and throws ValueError
itself by accident, here is a small snippet that catches all possible
errors for reading some TCP/UDP port number while specifying a default.

Loot at the same again, this time without using attribute access:

    self._listen_port = 12345
    ....


    for key, value in self._conf.items('general'):
        if key == 'listen port': # no need for ugly underscore
            try:
                value = int(value)
            except ValueError, e:
                raise Error("listen port is invalid")

            if value <= 1024 or value > 65535:
                    raise Error("listen port is not in valid range")
            self._listen_port = value
        elif key == ....


What can we say about the above?

    - The try block is much more specific (no magic code underneath).
    - Application initialisation does not begin until your config read /
      validate phase has completed.
    - It naturally pushes you into grouping code belonging to the same
      category (ie. conf.items('general')).

Regardless of your config system, for the above reasons I would not use
attribute style config representation anyway and prefer an explicit
load/validate/parse phase. Otherwise, lazy reading of the values leads
to deep ugly unreadable tracebacks in remote parts of your application.

I think this is swaying a little off-topic, but my 2c anyway. :)



David.

-- 
Making the simple complicated is commonplace;  making the complicated
simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
    -- Charles Mingus (1922-1979), Musician and composer


From ville at spammers.com  Sat Oct  2 07:12:10 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 02 Oct 2004 14:12:10 +0300
Subject: Calling (C)Python code from Java: Is it JPype?
References: <cjeem1$5h9$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<1DI6d.223$j5.307837@weber.videotron.net>
	<cjg70t$gun$1@newshispeed.ch> <du7wtybod4b.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<cjjksb$soo$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <du7u0tdv0fp.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "geiger" == F GEIGER <f.geiger at vol.at> writes:

    >> Why GUI in compiled lang? Typically the time in a GUI is spent in a
    >> GUI library, which is native code.

    geiger> It is not because of the performance. I never had any

Ok - just checking. "Compiled language" is so widely abused term,
typically used in the context of performance. You were looking for the
term "statically typed language".

    geiger> again had missed something. I am willing to give up on
    geiger> flexibilty in the *GUI* part of my app to receive type
    geiger> safety and in consequence compile time error checking.

I'm not big on GUI programming, but for me the problem with GUIs, that
a statically typed language would help you catch, is the large amount
of different methods taking a large variety of parameters. You only
need to get them right once, different data sets don't create too many
different situations that would break the GUI. Or at least those parts
that would be helped by static typing.

    geiger> If anyone could show me a way how I can develop the *GUI*
    geiger> part of may apps in a test driven way, i.e. w/o having to
    geiger> enter data manually all over again, then I could forget
    geiger> about all this.

Is the UI complex? With simple UIs, the part that needs to interface
with the actual UI library is trivial, and generally not worth unit
testing. TDD the "model"/"document" part of the UI. Or just hack
together some kind of simple UI that you can use to test / demo your
app, and put up the time to create a more sophisticated UI that you
test thoroughly when the rest of the stuff works.

    geiger> mostly in the problem domain and not in the lang
    geiger> domain. Ever handled strings, lists etc. in C++ or Java?

Have I ever!

HBufC* concat_stringsL(const TDesC& aS1, const TDesC& aS2)
        {
        HBufR* res = HBufC::NewLC(aS1.Length() + aS2.Length());
        res->Des() = aS1;
        res->Des().Append(aS2);
        return res;
        }

    geiger> you got the point: So many things are just easy to do in
    geiger> Python and I don't want to give up on *that*. OTOH: GUI
    geiger> stuff mostly is a SMOP, nothing special (possiblities in
    geiger> wx are great, though. I can do things here, I couldn't
    geiger> dream of doing it in, say, VB). Here a compiler really
    geiger> could make things easier - for *me* and *my* apps. Again,
    geiger> YMMV.

It can make things easier, but the cross-language interface (esp. as
it's a custom one, not a polished one like, say, wxPython is for
wxWindows/C++) can offset the easiness. 

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 11:54:58 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:54:58 +0200
Subject: How does one keep python from printing newline at program exit?
References: <64cf9d00.0410110743.ec1920f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gli6ui.v94p0548dbddN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

S. Staats <sstaats at questia.com> wrote:

> Good day, everbody.
> 
> Here is a simple program called test.py:
> #!/usr/bin/python
> print "No newline, please.",
> # End of program
> 
> Here is what program does:
> prompt> ./test.py
> No newline, please.
> 
> Here is what I want the program to do:
> prompt> ./test.py
> No newline, please.prompt>
> 
> How can I get the python interpreter to not print a newline when it exits?

You can avoid using print -- use sys.output.write instead -- or you can
use sys.output.softspace=False as the last statement in your program.

The reason for the newline is that, when standard output (sys.output) is
closed, it checks if its softspace attribute is True (meaning there is a
pending line not yet terminated) and if so terminates the line.  In
turn, softspace is set by print with a trailing comma, specifically to
avoid erroneously-unterminated lines (and other small anomalies).  So,
if you want something a bit out of the ordinary such as an unterminated
line being output, either you eschew print, which is meant to help in
typical ordinary cases (sys.stdout.write being there for when you need
fine control), or you reset that special attribute to False.


Alex


From syed_saqib_ali at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 23:13:06 2004
From: syed_saqib_ali at yahoo.com (Saqib Ali)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 20:13:06 -0700
Subject: How to catch exceptions elegantly in this situation?
Message-ID: <e431ae34.0410071913.15954ed5@posting.google.com>

Check out the following code fragment

Line  1: myDict = {}
Line  2: a = 5
Line  3: b = 2
Line  4: c = 0
Line  5: myDict["A"] = a + b + c
Line  6: myDict["B"] = a - b - c
Line  7: myDict["C"] = a * b * c
Line  8: myDict["D"] = a / b / c
Line  9: myDict["E"] = a ** b ** c
Line 10: ...<etc>...
Line 11: ...<etc>...
Line 12: ...<etc>...

An exception will be raised at line #7 because of division by zero.
I want the exception to be caught, printed, but then I want the flow
to continue to line #8 and onwards. I want this behaviour on EACH
assignment line. (Line 5 onwards). IE: Do the assignment. If an
exception is raised, print the exception and continue to the next
assignment.

I can't think of an elegant way to handle this. Can someone help?

- I COULD surround each assignment line with a try/except block. But
that seems very tedious, cumbersome and unwieldy.

- Alternatively I tought of writing a function 'myFunc' and passing in
the args as follows: (dict=myDict, key="D", expression="a / b / c"). I
figured within 'myFunc' I would do:  myDict[key] = eval(expression)
.......... However that wouldn't work either because the eval would
fail since the variables will be out of context.

Any Suggestions??

-Saqib


From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Sat Oct 16 18:51:37 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:51:37 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <ckr3q0$mbf$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02> <ckr3q0$mbf$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <ZBhcd.947$EL5.528@trndny09>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> That might be faster, if the string.find operation uses something else than
> simple brute force linear searching - but I don't know enough about the
> internals of python's string implementation to give an definite answer
> here.
> 
> But to be honest: I don't think regexps are easy to beat, unless your
> usecase is modeled in a way that makes it prone to other approaches.

The problem is, I want to find all patterns that match my test string, 
so even with re I'd still have to search through every pattern, which is 
what I'm trying to avoid. Something like a trie might be better, but 
they don't seem very efficient when implemented in Python.


From gbauer at maine.rr.com  Tue Oct 12 17:05:45 2004
From: gbauer at maine.rr.com (Gavin Bauer)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:05:45 -0400
Subject: School Project, Need Help Fast!
Message-ID: <000801c4b09f$3f282260$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>

Please respond ASAP, the project is due soon.

In science, we are doing a "creative mini project" about minerals. People can write a song, or make a movie, etc. etc. Being the dry, uncreative person I am, I chose to use my limited python knowledge to create a "Mineral Program" the idea is that a person inputs a mineral name, and then the program gives them all the information about the mineral. At first I figured this would be easy. I would make an input line for mineral. Then I would use and if statement, and a whole bunch of elif statements, to give the info, here is the broken program I came up with:

print "Hi! Welcome to Gavins mineral project!"
print "We currently have a database of 30 minerals!"
print "Simply type the mineral's name, with the first letter capitalized."
print "To see what minerals we have available, type: List Minerals"
print "For futher help, type: Help"
print "To leave, type: Exit"
print ""
mineral = input("Mineral:")
while mineral != Exit:
    if mineral = Augite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Bauxite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Biotite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Bonite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Calcite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Chalcopyrite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Corundum:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Feldspar:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Fluorite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Galena:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Garnet:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Graphite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Gypsum:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Halite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Hematite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Hornblende:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Kaolinite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Limonite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Magnetite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Muscovite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Native Copper:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Olivine:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Pyrite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Quartz:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Smoky Quartz:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Sphalerite:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Sulfer:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Talc:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = List Minerals:
        print "a"
    elif mineral = Help:
        print "a"
    else:
        print "That mineral isn't in our database."
        print "Type Help for further assistance or try again."

raw_input("Press enter to exit")

The "a"'s would be where I would put all the mineral information. I figured I'd get the program straight before I did research. The "press enter to exit" thing is because my DOS shuts off the second it finishes computing, which leaves me without seeing the final information. I would love it if someone knew how I could change my Dos preference, but I would be pushing my luck to get a response in time at all.

Thanks a lot   -Gavin
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From donnal at donnal.net  Fri Oct 15 12:56:12 2004
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:56:12 -0500
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
Message-ID: <ckovfd$411$1@sea.gmane.org>

The following method is defined in one of my classes:

     def setup(self, items={}):
         """perform setup based on a dictionary of items"""
         if 'something' in items:
             value = items['something']
             # now do something with value
         if 'another' in items:
             value = items['another']
             # do something else with value
         if 'spam' in items:
             value = items['spam']
             # do yet another thing with value
         if 'eggs' in items:
             value = items['eggs']
             # and so on

The purpose is to set up the object based on values contained in a 
dictionary passed to the setup() method. The dictionary may be empty, or 
it may contain a variable number of items, and it may contain items not 
looked for by the setup() method. Moreover, this method may be 
overridden in subclasses. The approach described above works ok, so I 
suppose I should leave well enough alone, but I have this nagging 
feeling that Python has a way to do this more simply or more elegantly. 
Any suggestion?

Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital




From dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 13:36:02 2004
From: dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com (Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:36:02 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5342.1098478990.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncnj8td.nq.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
	<Z4qdnU7lH-sRDefcRVn-jw@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncnl5k2.o9.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>

Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote:
> what you showed here is basically a workaround, a way to
> "trick" python that runs the templating engine into
> directly executing a statement ... not a wise choice ...

It's not a workaroud. It's there and you can use that. I can't see a
different way to execute code from a template without calling exec or eval.
Of course I may be wrong about this, if you can tell me how to.

ZPT does exactly the same, and Nevow provides everything for you to do it.
BUT Nevow doesn't ship with that renderer by default.

> Moreover why is it that the webpage is so
> eager to explicitly contradict this possibility?
>
> http://www.divmod.org/Home/Projects/Nevow/
>
> "Nevow includes the ability to load templates off disk...
> ... The attribute technique was inspired by the attributes
> used by ZPT. However, no actual code may be embedded in
> the HTML template"

Because you cannot do (e.g.):

<%for i in range(10): %>
        <tr>blahblahblah</tr>
</%for>

But as I showed you can embed code in the tag attribute, you simply have to
write the renderer yourself, since the Nevow way is not to have code
outside of the python source file.

There is even a guy who wrote a new templating system for Nevow that can
read templates made like this IIRC:

<div> {$slot} </div>

In order to do this, you 'simply' have to provide a loader object that can
translate from your template to a Stan Tree that Nevow can use to render the
page, so, looking at this, there can even be a possibility to write a
templating engine for Nevow where you can embed code in the template.

-- 
Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Now running FreeBSD 5.3-beta7
Blog: http://vvolonghi.blogspot.com



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sun Oct 10 00:20:34 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 00:20:34 -0400
Subject: Init a table of functions
In-Reply-To: <xp2ad.8055$UP1.2350@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>	<942ad.836$Bw1.213@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4656.1097379445.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xp2ad.8055$UP1.2350@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4168B892.8000201@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
> class foo:
>      def f1():
>           print "f1"
>
>      def f2():
>           print "f2"
>
>      K={"f1" : f1,
>         "f2" : f2,
>         }
>      f1 = staticmethod(f1)
>      f2 = staticmethod(f2)
>
> def main():
>      foo.K["f1"]()
>      foo.K["f2"]()
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      main()
>
> The 'staticmethod' is a descriptor and only works in
> the context of a class.
>
> Functions get turned into methods only in the context
> of a class.
>
> So to use a function as a function, get it before it
> turns into a method or staticmethod.
>
>                 Andrew
>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com

Ingenious solution Andrew!  A true beauty. 


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Oct 21 17:25:30 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:25:30 -0500
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, K.I.S.S. entry.
In-Reply-To: <20041021203941.GA81142@thailand.botanicus.net>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
	<20041021203941.GA81142@thailand.botanicus.net>
Message-ID: <4178294A.5060304@colorstudy.com>

David Wilson wrote:
> Greetings Python-List,
> 
>     http://botanicus.net/dw/tmp/ConfigParser2/ConfigParser.py
> 
> 
> The above implementation of 'ConfigParser2' takes a radically different
> approach to that of the good Mr. Chermside's entry, or any of the
> so-called proposed 'enhancements' to ConfigParser. It does this by
> *removing* features which I believe do not belong in ConfigParser, and
> repairing the existing class interface.
> 
> Please let me know what you think, CC: me if possible. This module,
> although unused (and only an hour or three old), will probably live in
> my personal toolkit from now on. Its interface is superior to that of
> ConfigParser's in many ways, despite being less than 51% of the size of
> it's predecessor:

It's simplicity really seems like a combination of two things: (a) a 
simple INI file parser, (b) a multi-value dictionary.  With sections 
mixed in there somewhere as well.  I find sections to be a somewhat 
confusing metaphor -- should sections be their own object, or are 
configuration keys just parameterized (i.e., each key is really a tuple 
of (section, name))?

But that's really not so bad; whether those concerns are separated out 
or not, I don't really mind either.  But one issue I see with this is 
that it doesnt allow for very good error messages.  Because all the 
parsing is done up-front, there's no information left about where 
exactly the errors are located.  When you have large configuration 
files, and cases where multiple configuration files are layered, or even 
layering sections within a config file, it becomes important to provide 
good error messages.

And then some minor nits: you don't check for the trailing ] on section 
names (or strip whitespace), # isn't allowed for comments, and : isn't 
allowed in place of =.  Also, line continuation isn't provided for.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 18 09:17:34 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:17:34 -0400
Subject: md5 and large files
In-Reply-To: <2thtm1F1u2mshU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<4172a5f6$0$28202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4172AA52.9030606@vt.edu> <sgjb42-phv.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<2thtm1F1u2mshU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <UqGdncN5T6jxX-7cRVn-2A@powergate.ca>

Tobias Pfeiffer wrote:
> On 18 Okt 2004, Roger Binns wrote:
>>Brad Tilley wrote:
>>
>>>I would like to verify that the files are not corrupt so what's the
>>>most efficient way to calculate md5 sums on 4GB files? The machine
>>>doing the calculations is a small desktop with 256MB of RAM.
>>
>>If you need to be 100% certain, then only doing md5sum over the
>>entire file will work as Tim points out.
> 
> This is not true. I'd say there are quite a lot of 2 GB files that 
> produce the same md5 hash...

Without deliberately contriving an example using the recently
discovered technique, can you offer even a single example? ;-)

(If you were trying to point out that 100.00000000000% or whatever
is not possible with MD5, okay, but note that Roger didn't specify
the precision.  100% is close enough to what you'd get with MD5.)

> I think he has to see what he really wants to do with that file. If the 
> goal is "compute the md5sum", then a loop with md5.update() seems most 
> appropriate to me. If the goal is "check the equality" or "check whether 
> they are corrupted", why md5? He can just read small blocks from the file 
> and then do a simple string comparison. Might even be faster. 

Simple string comparisons with *what*?  Are you assuming that there
is a known-good copy of the file sitting right next to it, that he
can compare against?

 > And here,
> the chance is really close to 100% he'd notice a change in the files. :-)


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 17:03:04 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:03:04 -0400
Subject: 2.3.4 windows installer
In-Reply-To: <8a27e309.0410071147.6153ee16@posting.google.com>
References: <ck3hs6$dri$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<8a27e309.0410071147.6153ee16@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck4au9$kq8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

R.Marquez wrote:
> Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote in message 
> 
>>changed manually at install, but that's a pain when you have 
>>dozens/hundreds of machines.
> 
> 
> When you have "dozens/hundreds of machines" in Windows you will be
> better off having some kind of Application deployment mechanism such
> as SMS (not that I am promoting that particular one).  Those tools
> will allow you to create a wrapper installation package whith which
> you can automate the way the original setup program is run.  You can
> then push this installation packages at will or simply allow the users
> to pull them in as desired.

It's not as simple as that for me... we're informal with many types of 
HW and most machines are geographically distributed and administered by 
the users... we only touch machines when they initially arrive and we 
only see users when a problem arises and they come in...We try to 
develop generic OS installations and Python sys-admin tools that work 
for every machine in every location and situation.

thanks for the suggestion.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 18 10:24:50 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:24:50 -0400
Subject: relational email repository
Message-ID: <rrQcd.2905$lp6.2339@okepread01>

A while ago someone posted a reference to a relational architecture for 
storing rfc2822-compliant emails, but I can't for the life of me find it 
through Google. Anyone? Thanks a lot.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From flab at large.net  Sun Oct 31 13:43:39 2004
From: flab at large.net (flab ba)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:43:39 -0700
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails
	...	python on ?)
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
	<sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5728.1099211579.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.31.18.43.39.352636@large.net>

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:24:31 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:

> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>> 
>> flab ba wrote:
>> > The pragmatic programmers (Dave & Andy) are spreading a good word about
>> > RubyOnRails. I was wondering if there are any Python programmers who are
>> > /also/ familiar with Rails - and if they could recommend something in the
>> > Python world that is comparable.
>> 
>> I googled for that to learn about it.  Saw a note in the home page
>> of rubyonrails.org from Oct 11 about them having a new bug tracker
>> working!
>> 
>> "Cool," sez I, a fan of issue trackers in general, "Let's see
>> what these Ruby guys have come up with for a bug tracker."
>> 
>> It's Trac.
> 
> You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
> (www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.
> 
>  - Josiah

You're right - that web site does look quite spiffy. I was deciding on
Quixote for my web app framework, but even the author claims that it isn't
the right framework if you think a website is a graphics design problem.

I'm not a graphics designer, but I need more spiffyness than the MEMS web
site - which is done in Quixote.

-Alex


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 18 18:43:16 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:43:16 GMT
Subject: [Python-Dev] ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <20041018104036.0A2B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<2EE12B0A-212F-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com>
	<20041018120633.0A3D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5133.1098129122.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41743f3a.161450203@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:51:58 -0200, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:20:46 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
>> > > I think the syntax looks good, but as per a thread in python-list, you
>> > > cannot discover the order of class variables by any solution (metaclass
>> > > or otherwise), due to the fact that they become part of the class
>> > > dictionary; which is arbitrarily unordered.
>> > >
>> > > If ordering is important to a user, one could have an optional
>> > > __order__
>> > > attribute that gives the list of items in-order.
>> >
>> > That's not quite true.  TypedAttribute instances and iniSection's
>> > __new__ could have serial numbers.
>
>TypedAttributes store their own sequence numbers using a simple
>counter. Bengt Richter also came up with a clever trick to retrieve a
>list from the code object itself (using the inspect module and the
>co_names member). It's very powerful, but it can't check all
>situations, but I'm sure that it would work for most real world
>situations.
>
>As far as INI files are concerned, order is good but not essential. It
>helps people that are going to read, or manually edit the config file,
>and avoids some surprised such as in "what has happened here?" when
>things seems to appear "out of order".
>
Has anyone discussed using the csv module as the basic file interface for config data?

Windows sort of migrated away from actual .INI files to using the registry, and a
registry entry with the name of a real ini file can divert apparent operations on
the file to operations on the registry (for windows apps using the windows API).

Order does matter in M$ view of INI files. IOW you _can_ (advisability of using ini
sections that way in another thing ;-) retrieve multiple sym value info from a section
such as

[section]
sym=value1
sym=value2

Basic usage is simple and ok, but a clean general info repository it is not, IMO.
The win32 API for reading and writing INI files is the family of "profile string"
operations, i.e., this gives an idea of what you are dealing with:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

GetPrivateProfileSection
    The GetPrivateProfileSection function retrieves all of the
    keys and values for the specified section from an
    initialization file. This function is provided for
    compatibility with 16-bit applications written for Windows.
    Win32-based applications should store initialization
    information in the registry.
Windows 95: The specified profile section must not exceed 32K.

Windows NT: The specified profile section has no size limit.

DWORD GetPrivateProfileSection(
  LPCTSTR lpAppName,        // address of section name
  LPTSTR lpReturnedString,  // address of return buffer
  DWORD nSize,              // size of return buffer
  LPCTSTR lpFileName        // address of initialization filename
);
 
Parameters
lpAppName 
    Pointer to a null-terminated string containing the section
    name in the initialization file.
lpReturnedString 
    Pointer to a buffer that receives the key name and value
    pairs associated with the named section. The buffer is
    filled with one or more null-terminated strings; the last
    string is followed by a second null character.
nSize 
    Specifies the size, in characters, of the buffer pointed to
    by the lpReturnedString parameter.
Windows 95: The maximum buffer size is 32,767 characters. 

lpFileName 
    Pointer to a null-terminated string that names the
    initialization file. If this parameter does not contain a
    full path to the file, the system searches for the file in
    the Windows directory.
Return Values
    The return value specifies the number of characters copied
    to the buffer, not including the terminating null character.
    If the buffer is not large enough to contain all the key
    name and value pairs associated with the named section, the
    return value is equal to nSize minus two.

Remarks
    The data in the buffer pointed to by the lpReturnedString
    parameter consists of one or more null-terminated strings,
    followed by a final null character. Each string has the
    following format:

key=string

    The GetPrivateProfileSection function is not case-sensitive;
    the string pointed to by the lpAppName parameter can be a
    combination of uppercase and lowercase letters.

    This operation is atomic; no updates to the specified
    initialization file are allowed while the key name and value
    pairs for the section are being copied to the buffer pointed
    to by the lpReturnedString parameter.

    Windows NT: Calls to private profile functions may be mapped
    to the registry instead of to the specified initialization
    files. This mapping occurs when the initialization file and
    section are specified in the registry under the following
    keys:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\
Windows NT\CurrentVersion\IniFileMapping

    This mapping is likely if an application modifies
    system-component initialization files, such as CONTROL.INI,
    SYSTEM.INI, and WINFILE.INI. In these cases, the
    GetPrivateProfileSection function retrieves information from
    the registry, not from the initialization file; the change
    in the storage location has no effect on the function's
    behavior.

    The Win32 profile functions (Get/WriteProfile*,
    Get/WritePrivateProfile*) use the following steps to locate
    initialization information:

    Look in the registry for the name of the initialization
    file, say MYFILE.INI, under IniFileMapping:
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\ Windows
    NT\CurrentVersion\IniFileMapping\myfile.ini

    Look for the section name specified by lpAppName. This will
    be a named value under myfile.ini, or a subkey of
    myfile.ini, or will not exist. If the section name specified
    by lpAppName is a named value under myfile.ini, then that
    value specifies where in the registry you will find the keys
    for the section.
    
    If the section name specified by lpAppName is a subkey of
    myfile.ini, then named values under that subkey specify
    where in the registry you will find the keys for the
    section. If the key you are looking for does not exist as a
    named value, then there will be an unnamed value (shown as
    <No Name>) that specifies the default location in the
    registry where you will find the key.

    If the section name specified by lpAppName does not exist as
    a named value or as a subkey under myfile.ini, then there
    will be an unnamed value (shown as <No Name>) under
    myfile.ini that specifies the default location in the
    registry where you will find the keys for the section.

    If there is no subkey for MYFILE.INI, or if there is no
    entry for the section name, then look for the actual
    MYFILE.INI on the disk and read its contents.

    When looking at values in the registry that specify other
    registry locations, there are several prefixes that change
    the behavior of the .INI file mapping:

! - this character forces all writes to go both to the registry and to the .INI file on disk. 
# - this character causes the registry value to be set to the value in the Windows 3.1 .INI file
    when a new user logs in for the first time after setup. 
@ - this character prevents any reads from going to the .INI file on disk if the requested data
    is not found in the registry. 
USR: - this prefix stands for HKEY_CURRENT_USER, and the text after the prefix
       is relative to that key. 
SYS: - this prefix stands for HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE, and the text after the prefix
       is relative to that key. 
See Also
Registry Overview, Registry Functions, GetProfileSection, WritePrivateProfileSection 
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
 

 
>> I'm not saying that they can't be numbered, I'm saying that one cannot
>> discover the ordering of assignment of attr1 and attr2 in the following:
>> 
>> class foo:
>>     attr1 = value1
>>     attr2 = value2
>> 
>> If there is a mechanism for discovering the original ordering of those
>> assignments, there are a group of users in c.l.py who would like to know,
>> and Carlos' seemingly non-existant implementation could also use it.
>
>I took part in that discussion. We found some a few alternatives to
>handle this problem. None of them are 100% percent transparent _and_
>reliable; you had to choose here between the two options. But for
>things such as ini files, things don't look that bad.
>
>As for the code: I don't have a host for it, and I just felt that I
>shouldn't post it in the python-dev list without some proper care :-)
>But I'm going to do it as soon as I have a 'good enough'
>implementation that include the write code. BTW I'll move this
>discussion to the main python list. If anyone cares enough about it,
>I'll move it back into python-dev.
> 

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it  Fri Oct  1 13:30:05 2004
From: NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:30:05 GMT
Subject: getrecursiondepth
References: <cj3rd9$i9j$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<qebbl0l43c891b21udregn2pvj3phbfp90@4ax.com>
	<yMn5d.9974$gG4.9921@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<lf1dl0tqo6kui5gi2qmhgdqq0qdqfeqei0@4ax.com>
	<6fD5d.10550$gG4.6048@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<lhifl0969k5s8c87b9cg2pqrbe3in9oiv3@4ax.com>
	<Igg6d.12242$gG4.6109@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<bnfol0tf2q7e5d48p3pccs19c3ns6m6nme@4ax.com>
	<ifY6d.2976$Yr.655@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <76hql0pldetene06qqt10qk0kch82ju0if@4ax.com>

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:28:30 GMT, Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com>
wrote:

>Me:
>>>Try this as a alternate solution for your style
>>>of use.  It's still not the right one because it
>>>doesn't handle reloads nor multiple functions
>>>created through exec's.
>
>Manlio Perillo wrote:
>> No, I don't want this. "Hello!" should be printed every times.
>
>I see.  I was writing code to emulate C's "static" behaviour
>which is not what you wanted.
>

It's my fault.
It is long time I'm not using C++ that I forgot that static variable
function initialization is done once during program.
However firstlevel_call is what I want.


>
>> Here is a functions that returns True if the caller's 'recursion
>> depth' is 1.
>> Please check if this is correct.
>
>>>>>def firstlevel_call():
>> 
>>        return sys._getframe(1).f_code != sys._getframe(2).f_code
>
> > N.B.: sys._getframe(2) can raise an exception
>
>Looks like it should work, and be thread-safe.  Again,
>I don't suggest using it.  It's going to be slower than
>one where you use pass the stack depth in as a parameter.
>It's also going to depend on implmentation behaviour.
>Someday a Python system may not instantiate the stack
>information until it's requested, causing a big run-time
>hit.  But that's only theoretical.
>

Ok. Thanks

>> Sorry, I don't understand.
>> Here is my_function:
>> 
>> 
>> def my_function(a, b, *args, **kwargs):
>> 	print 'a, b, args, kwargs:', a, b, args, kwargs
>
>That's not recursive, so I don't know how to
>interpret your question.  

This is only the function signature!
The problem is that I can't do:

def my_function(a, b, *args, **kwargs, __max_depth = 4): ...

The only way is to do:
def my_function(a, b, max_depth = 4, *args, **kwargs): ...

But in this way max_depth is 'exposed' to public.
In the first example it is private.

>Let's suppose you're
>doing Ackermann's function
>
>def Ackermann(m, n):
>     if m == 0:
>         return n+1
>     if n == 0:
>         return Ackermann(m-1, 1)
>     return Ackermann(m-1, Ackermann(m, n-1))
>

What's the purpose of such a function?



Thanks and regards  Manlio Perillo


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 03:17:13 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:17:13 +0200
Subject: Sorting and list comprehension
References: <ed89f8f2.0410100041.71c20541@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1glik2m.16z5cdw3xzno5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Tran Tuan Anh <anhtt at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to do the followings, but I am quite new to Python hence
> have not figured it out how...
> 
> salary = dictionary
> salary["Bob"] = 11
> salary["Marry"] = 4
> salary["me"]= 45
> 
> How can I have a sort_value() function acts like this:
> result = sortvalue(salary)
> result = ["Marry","Bob","me"]

You could upgrade to Python 2.4 and define

def sortvalue(d):
    return sorted(d, key=d.get)

(or code it inline).  If you're stuck with Python 2.3,

def sortvalue(d):
    aux = [ (v,k) for k, v in d.iteritems() ]
    aux.sort()
    return [ k for v, k in aux ]

is probably the best you can do.


> Regarding the list construction, how can I do this:
> 
> list = [item for item in list1 if for all item2 in list2 NOT
> bad_condition(item, item2]

One possibility (I think it's not that good...):

from itertools import ifilter, imap

[x for x in list1
   if 23 not in imap(lambda x: 23,
                ifilter(lambda y: not badcondition(x, y), list2))
]

I think it's too fancy and you should define an auxiliary function:

def itemisok(item, list2, bad_condition):
    for y in list2:
        if bad_condition(item, y): return False
    return True

so that you can code

[x for x in list1 if itemisok(x, list2, bad_condition)]

or thereabouts...


Alex


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  1 01:18:24 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:18:24 -0400
Subject: A newbie in more need....
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4164.1096606649.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4164.1096606649.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xQ57d.2745$TY2.2105@lakeread04>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> Chris Patton wrote:
> 
>>I am writing a program that writes a number of classes, which are all
>>fundementally the same thing. The only thing that is different is the
>>names. Therefore, I need to write a bunch of classes in the quickest
>>time I can. Here's what I was thinking of:
>>
>>num = 1
>>while num < 20:
>>      exec 'class bug'+num+':'
>>      exec '      gender = "m"'
>>      exec '      size = 0'
>>      exec '      skill = 0'
>>
>>Obviously, the "exec" statement severley slows the time it takes to
>>write these classes. I need a new method! If possible I would like to
>>avoid the use of the "exec" statement alltogether.
> 

[excellent fumanchu code]

having said that, usually when somebody suggests they need to 
dynamically create names in this way, it's often an indication that the 
created objects should be kept in a dictionary.

How are you going to look these things up? What will be making the 
creator calls to bug1(), bug2(), and so on, and why couldn't it make 
calls to bug[1](), bug[2](), and so on?

A little more detail might get you an even better solution.

regards
  Steve


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Oct 25 16:45:04 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:45:04 -0500
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <417D65D0.1000306@colorstudy.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
>>Whatever gave you the idea you are obligated to provide support?!
> 
> 
> Experience.
> 
> Customers seem to have no problem with not getting source code,
> but once you _do_ give them source code then you have to
> support it.  Ignoring customers when they ask questions about
> the source code has always proven in past experience to be "not
> an option."

Well, it sounds like an issue for your contract; i.e., an explicit 
clause about not supporting code that has been modified in any way.  Or 
maybe make it explicit that a higher level of support contract is 
required, or something of the sort.  That's a sales issue.  If the 
contract has already been signed, I think that's okay -- that level of 
support is never implied.

But sales issues are boring, we can only help with technical solutions. 
  A technical solution might be to make hashes of all the files you 
release, and include something that checks those hashes; maybe when the 
program is started, or in a support screen, or whatever.  If they've 
modified any files, put a big message up that they have modified the 
product and there is no warrantee or support for the product in that 
state.  It's like a tamper-proof sticker on hardware, but easier on them 
because they can put the sticker back if they want (i.e., undo their 
modifications).

If they are sneaky they'd change the hashes.  But that'd be more than 
sneaky, they'd have to be assholes with an intent to defraud if they go 
that far.  And if you are dealing with customers of that sort, then 
you're doomed.

And if they just want help making modifications, well gee, it should be 
pretty darn easy to turn them down on that.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From nelson at monkey.org  Sat Oct 30 14:11:28 2004
From: nelson at monkey.org (Nelson Minar)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:11:28 GMT
Subject: ctypes vs. swig
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpaekjgnkj3.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>

ctypes looks very powerful, and the convenience of doing everything at
runtime seems significant. To what extent is it a replacement for swig
for calling C code? I haven't really used ctypes, so I'm asking.

Are there jobs that swig is better at and jobs that ctypes is better
at? ctypes requires your code be in a dynamic library, and that ctypes
is for C only. But those don't seem like major drawbacks for my uses.


I did a bit of research on this question and all I found was this:
  http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=6887157

  I have been thinking about instead of swig using ctypes and some
  form of automated header parser to make a new pyopengl


From nospam at here.com  Fri Oct  1 13:25:15 2004
From: nospam at here.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 18:25:15 +0100
Subject: Day of Year Behaviour
References: <b23aa71.0409301455.2679184e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4iqk6w04qo2j$.1on6nphgzq67o$.dlg@40tude.net>

On 30 Sep 2004 15:55:53 -0700, Hector Villafuerte wrote:

> 
> I'm using the time module without success:
>>>> time.localtime(time.mktime((2004, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0)))
> (2003, 11, 30, 0, 0, 0, 6, 334, 0)
> 

If you pass the year-day as the third item in the 9-tuple, then
localtime(mktime()) should normalise the date correctly:

>>> time.localtime(time.mktime((2004, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)))
(2004, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 3, 1, 0)
>>> time.localtime(time.mktime((2004, 1, 33, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)))
(2004, 2, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 33, 0)
>>> time.localtime(time.mktime((2004, 1, 365, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)))
(2004, 12, 30, 0, 0, 0, 3, 365, 0)
>>> 

But, as others have stated, the datetime module is probably the better way
to go.

-- 
Richard


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 06:31:38 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 03:31:38 -0700
Subject: Authentication from urllib2
References: <sr3jn0d4nu6ic5eksjdr6d2i7rmi31ds3n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410230231.26e88f2d@posting.google.com>

Aaargh.. that was annoying... much searching on the net to work this one out.
No thanks to you lot though ;-)

theurl = 'http://www.somerestrictedserver.com'
passman = urllib2.HTTPPasswordMgr()     
passman.add_password(therealm, theurl, username, password)  

*won't* work.
theurl starts with the protocol http:// which isn't what HTTPPasswordMgr needs.

theurl = 'www.somerestrictedserver.com'

works...

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


Fuzzyman <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<sr3jn0d4nu6ic5eksjdr6d2i7rmi31ds3n at 4ax.com>...
> I'm trying to do Basic authentication using urllib2 and
> HTTPPasswordMgr Objects.
> 
> According to my understanding I ought to perform the following simple
> sequence (except it doesn't work). Can someone cast their eyes over it
> and see what I'm doing wrong please.............
> 
> import urllib2 
> 
> theurl = 'http://www.somerestrictedserver.com'
> username = 'somebody'
> password = 'XXXXX'         # a great password
> therealm = 'theRealm'
> 
> passman = urllib2.HTTPPasswordMgr()     
> passman.add_password(therealm, theurl, username, password)     
> 
> authhandler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler(passman)                 
> opener = urllib2.build_opener(authhandler)
> 
> req = urllib2.Request(theurl)
> filehandle = opener.open(req)
> print filehandle.read()
> 
> Ideally I would like to use HTTPPasswordMgrWithDefaultRealm() and
> specify None for the realm. I would also like to install the opener
> and just use urllib2.urlopen rather than using the opener directly. 
> 
> When I run this I still get a 401 HTTPError. I would expect the opener
> to recognise the realm and retry the request (handle the error using
> hte handler I have provided..).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Fuzzy
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 17 07:33:48 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 17 Oct 2004 04:33:48 -0700
Subject: windows services
References: <mailman.5046.1097941098.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9418be08.0410170333.c896b7c@posting.google.com>

Francis Lavoie <francisl at aei.ca> wrote in message news:<mailman.5046.1097941098.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Is it possible to restart windows services? (remotely and locally)
> 
> Because I have a little script that retreive the LastWaitTimeout key of 
> the automatic update, delete that key if it out schedule for our 
> production needs. But still the service need to be restarded if I want 
> that key to be reset, when Win Update will resynchronize with the sus 
> server for new update.
> 
> Thankx

I assume that you have "Python for Win32 Extensions" installed and you
are running your script not on linux computer :). To cntrol servicea
(including pause, stop etc.) one should use
win32service.ControlService(scHandle, code ).
code = 1 (from c include:
#define SERVICE_CONTROL_STOP           0x00000001
)
then you call win32service.StartService(scHandle, args)

Local/remote is controlled by 

OpenSCManager(machineName, dbName , desiredAccess )

machineName - does the trik!

Good luck!


From vickyp679 at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 10 10:11:43 2004
From: vickyp679 at yahoo.com (vicky)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 07:11:43 -0700
Subject: EVIL AMERICAN GOVT (aka FBI) is full of SADISTS and PERVERTS
Message-ID: <11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0@posting.google.com>

SUMMARY: 

THREE YEARS of and continuing MENTAL TORTURE, TERRORISM, SADISM and
BLATANT human rights violations by FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS.

Please SAVE this post on your hard disks or email account and also
bookmark it because the FBI sadists are gonna force the websites to
remove this posting for good. I posted this column to pretty much all
"active newsgroups" three weeks ago but the FBI "ARM TWISTED" and
"FORCED" google management to "REMOVE 90% of them" from the USENET and
violated my FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Undercover FBI agents will attack me, ridicule me and discredit me
with fictitious userids in response to this post and I request all
readers to completely IGNORE those MANIPULATIVE, LYING FBI perverts
and sadists.

Please forward and distribute this to as many senators, congressmen,
journalists, editors, civil rights attorneys, civil rights activists,
investigative reporters, radio talk show hosts,  managers, co-workers,
family and friends and all Americans concerned with civil liberties.

I am not a muslim, I don't have even a single muslim friend, I am not
a member of any religious organization, I am not a drug smuggler, I do
not belong to any crime mafia, I did not kill anybody, I am not a spy
and I never ever worked for any government and not even "remotely
connected" to any government agency whatsoever, I do not have any
prior criminal record, I am a US citizen and have been living in US
for a little more than 15 yrs and I graduated with a masters degree in
computer science from a US university more than a decade ago. I am
even willing to take "ANY NO.OF POLYGRAPH TESTS" to prove whatever I
said is true and a fact, about my background.

FBI has been MENTALLY TORTURING me with 24X7 surveillance for the last
three years inside and outside my apartment with video surveillance
devices and motion sensors around my apartment, my phone has been
tapped, my web surfing is being monitored all the time for the last
three years, my emails are being monitored, gps vehicle tracking
devices and voice amplification devices have been placed in my car and
undercover FBI agents have followed me to restaurants, grocery stores,
malls, movie theatres, banks and even barber shops etc and forced me
to live like an animal and a virtual prisoner for three years. FBI has
interfered in my personal life for no reason and jeopardized my job
opportunities. FBI is obsessed with me and has ruined, destroyed and
wrecked my life for the last three years and destroyed my physical and
mental health.

The SADISTIC FBI agents are NOT charging me, NOT letting me find a
job, NOT letting me have a normal life, NOT letting me have even an
IOTA of PRIVACY and mentally TORTURING and TERRORIZING me with 24X7
surveillance, making 2000 UNSOLICITED phone calls to my unlisted
phone#s, entering my apartment ILLEGALLY and STEALING personal
belongings when I am not home, watching me real time live with video
surveillance devices installed in my bedroom, living room, kitchen and
DISGUSTINGLY even in my rest room and humiliating and dehumanizing me
and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights and constitutional right to
privacy and ABUSING the "DRACONIAN" PATRIOT ACT.

The PERVERTED FBI "ILLEGALLY" installed tens of audio and video
surveillance devices in my apartment, watching me NAKED, REAL TIME
LIVE 24X7 even in my rest room taking shower, psychoanalyzing each and
every move, each and every word I said, each and every second of my
life, each and every blink of my eyes and each and every comment I
posted on the web.

Is there a LIMIT to FBI Sadism and Perversion ??
 
If you want to contact me, please send me email at
vickyg456A at notyahoo.com by removing the letter "A" and the word "not"
from the email id.

I spoke to at least 200 attorneys in both Michigan and Georgia for
legal help but only about two or three attorneys were willing to help
me but asked me to show physical proof of either gps or video
surveillance devices. I did a lot of research and found a couple of
private investigators (who were ex-FBI agents) more importantly who
are knowledgeable about the latest "counter surveillance technologies"
 but they also DECLINED to help me on ONE PRETEXT or the OTHER even
though I was willing to pay for their services.
 
I told these two very HIGHLY QUALIFIED and KNOWLEDGEABLE private
investigators Niles (Eagle services 866-691-7985) and another PI,
Charles Middlestadt (404-252-5322) of ISC Worldwide Inc in the Atlanta
area who are capable of finding the gps vehicle tracking devices in my
car, that I am NOT A MUSLIM and they have NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT ME
and even offered them to go through my attorney and help me but still
THEY DECLINED to help me OUT OF FEAR that I might be a muslim.
 
And eventually I was forced to spend a $1000 as fees out of sheer
desperation knowing fully well that the Private Investigator I hired
has at best AVERAGE counter surveillance skills to sweep my car for
gps vehicle tracking devices and he did a LOUSY JOB and found nothing,
as I expected.

One attorney in Michigan CHEATED me for a thousand dollars and didn't
do diddly squat and another attorney made me spend a couple of
thousand dollars more, again for nothing.

Some attorneys I consulted told me in very CLEAR TERMS, that FBI
agents LIE, MANIPULATE, CHEAT and are VERY UNETHICAL in their MEANS
and METHODS. The attorneys also told me that in order for me to file a
civil lawsuit against the FBI, I have to PROVE the existence of
surveillance devices and also the harassment which will be quite a
tall order for me to do without the help of willing attorneys and
helpful private investigators and EVEN THEN the FBI sadists would have
removed all those surveillance devices by the time the private
investigators came to sweep my apartment for those devices after a
couple of days since the FBI is listening to each and every goddamn
word that came out of my mouth whether it be in my apartment or when I
was speaking to these PI's and attorneys from pay phones or cell
phones.

You can investigate these undercover FBI agents yourself and find out
the truth. Remember, some times vehicles are registered in parents or
spouses names and also FBI uses fictitious front companies to employ
their undercover agents.

If any of you think, all these things are my paranoid delusions, I
CHALLENGE you to send an email to undercover FBI agent Frank Spodek
(sfrank9 at aol.com) OR call Kathleen Sue Taylor OR Maddelina Wahl OR
Mediha Krijestorac or Janet Lorna Brown or the other FBI agents I
listed at their phone numbers and confirm it with those FBI PERVERTED
SADISTS themselves.

Undercover FBI agents who followed me
-------------------------------------

BOGEY 27 (MI)     Registered to Maddelina C Wahl,  28087 Hickory Dr,
Farmington.Hills MI 38331, ph: 248-324-1527, Caucasian Female, black
car, Charter One bank, 3:00 pm, 12/20/03

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 30 yr old Caucasian
Female to Charter One bank on W.12 Mile Road, Farmington Hills, MI in
veh plate # BOGEY 27, ph:248-324-1527

PPL 587  (MI)     Registered to Kathleen Sue Taylor, African American
female, 29390 Bermuda Ln,Southfield, MI 48034, ph: 248-356-1946.

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 27yr old African
American female in MI veh plate# PPL 587 in July 2002  in a CVS
Pharmacy on W.12 Mile Rd, Southfield,  MI

XRA 155 (MI)     Registered to Mediha Krijestorac, Black car, 30408
Shiawasee Rd, Farmington MI 48336, ph:248-477-9161,  White Male,
Restaurant, 9:00pm, 12/12/03

This undercover FBI agent who followed me was a 20-22 yr old Caucasian
Male in veh plate # XRA 155 to a restaurant on Grand River Ave in
Farmington Hills,  MI at 9:00 pm on 12/12/03.

UFX 210 (MI)     Registered to Kevin Miller, White SUV,  5871 Seneca
St, Detroit, 48213, July 2002, 313-571-1095 #disconnected.

This undercover FBI agent followed me in the summer of 2002.

5915CR   (MI)    Registered to Kenneth Allen, Red pickup truck, 18440
Alta Vista Dr, Southfield MI 48075 in Dec 2002.
 
This FBI undercover agent followed me in a red pickup truck in an
apartment complex was a 27-33 yr old Caucasian male in veh plate# 5915
CR in Dec 2002.

0978 JD  (MI)   Registered to Janet Lorna Brown, White Chevy, 20978
Delaware St, Southfield MI 48034 in 2002, ph# 248-350-2599

This FBI agent followed me in a white chevy once on Telegraph road on
3/14/02 and on a different occasion on 8 Mile Rd on 4/4/02 when I went
for an oil change.

8CK U33 (MI)    Registered to Doris Evelyn Person, 3611 S.Annabelle
St, Detroit 48217, 313-388-5186

The African American female undercover FBI agent who followed me in MI
veh plate# 8CK U33 was about 20 yrs old and might be a daughter of the
female owner of this car and this happened in early Fall of 2002.

EBAY      Ebay Id: SpodekModek, sfrank9 at aol.com --> email Id of Frank
Spodek - Undercover FBI Agent who monitored my Websurfing activities.

You can do a quick investigative test by emailing to sfrank9 at aol.com
and asking Frank if he is an undercover FBI agent and I am absolutely
positive he WONT respond and DENY he is an FBI agent because then it
will be a LIE. With this test you can conclude Frank Spodek is indeed
an undercover FBI agent.

EBAY            Ebay Id: cbsan,  cidneybetz at aol.com, email Id of
Cidney Betz - Undercover FBI agent who monitored my websurfing
activities in 2002.

Possible old phone numbers of Cidney Betz: 407-370-3043 or
352-291-2112 in the year 2002.

351 FTK (GA)    Maroon Car, 7/28/04, 6:00 pm, 20ish Caucasian Male and
Female, Metro Atlanta

131 YBP (GA)    35 yr old Caucasian Male, Silver colored car, 7/22/04,
10:45 pm, Hotel, Metro Atlanta

APZ 7647 (GA)   35 yr old Caucasian Male, Truck, 5/25/04, 3:00pm,
Ridgeview Hospital, Atlanta

YUU 243 (GA)    Pickup truck, Caucasian male, 8/25/04, 4:40pm,
Holcrombe Bridge Rd, Altanta

AQG 2185 (GA)   27 yr old Caucasian Female, Red Cherokee, 5/21/04, 11
AM, Pep Boys, Cobb Parkway

WPS 578 (GA)    SUV, One Caucasian Male and one female, 3/8/04,
8:30pm, Apartment Complex

Please allow three years plus or minus to the ages of the undercover
FBI agents I mentioned here.

2/29/04        Undercover FBI agent with a fictitious name "Agent
Johnson" and IP address 81.132.210.89 said on internet that they are
using me as a training target and have got a bet on as to when I'll do
something really stupid and also they are taking bets on what it will
be in alt.astrology Usenet newsgroup on 2/29/04. This FBI agent from
Michigan field office might have posted it anonymously and hence the
IP address might be a fake one. Url for Agent Johnson's post follows.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=c1u06b%24780%241%40titan.btinternet.com&rnum=19
                                
3/21/04        Undercover FBI agent by some fictitious internet name
"THOR" and email Id: funk_a_del_ic2000 at yahoo.com and IP address
24.94.125.55 in the Washington DC area monitored my web surfing
activities and posted on rec.sport.cricket Usenet news group.

I am absolutely confident all the above mentioned people are
undercover FBI agents GUARANTEED. You can investigate them yourself
and find out the truth.

FBI who is supposed to catch terrorists are WASTING humongous amount
of tax payers money to ruin, wreck and destroy ordinary peoples lives
and are MORE INTERESTED and spent three years to tell me how SMART and
INFINITELY POWERFUL they are compared to me.

FBI has even been eavesdropping, monitoring and recording my
conversations with attorneys from pay phones when I was looking to
hire an attorney to get help with this FBIs harassment,
dehumanization, humiliation and mental torture.

FBI agents have been entering my apartment regularly and torturing me
by doing whatever they want because they know I am taking medication
that puts me to sleep and I won't wake up until the next morning until
the drug effect goes away.

FBI has forced Google or used some technology at their disposal to
cancel some of my comments from getting posted on INTERNET newsgroups
misc.legal, trial.misc.legal from a library in Farmington Hills, MI
and denied and VIOLATED my right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH in 11/03 or
12/03.

FBI has entered my unlisted phone#s in all marketing and fax databases
and sent me faxes in the middle of the night. I received at least on
the average two to three marketing calls and faxes everyday for 3
years to my unlisted numbers totaling at least 2000 unsolicited calls
in the last 3 years.

FBI agents have terrorized me by calling my current unlisted phone#
atleast 200 times in a month and a half in July and August 2004,
intentionally asking for Roberto Fernandez (last name changed),
knowing fully well that nobody by the name Roberto Fernandez lived in
my apartment.

I called undercover FBI agent, Kathleen Sue Taylor on 4/1/04 and told
her I do not want to receive any HARASSING UNSOLICITED phone calls
from the FBI and from next day onwards, the FBI had made my unlisted
phone# appear on caller id of ordinary american people multiple # of
times, where the owners of those phone#s listed below got upset and
called me and left abusive messages in my answering machine.

The owners of these phone numbers listed below called and asked me why
I was calling them repeatedly, even though I DON'T KNOW who they are
and I NEVER called them even once.
   703-580-8992         4/2/04     Dale City, VA
   540-309-1226         4/3/04     Roanoke VA
   434-525-1448         4/3/04     Lynchburg, VA
   757-404-1076         4/4/04     Harry Folsom left me an abusive
message
   703-820-6695         4/4/04     DC Suburb, VA 
   770-966-5236         4/4/04     Cooper P D, Woman left me an
abusive message
   757-483-0583         4/7/04     Norfolk, VA
   540-463-7459         4/7/04     Lexington VA
   770-253-6297         4/8/04     Hammond Stinson
   703-541-0950         4/9/04     DC Suburb, VA

FBI pretended to be me and made all these phone calls themselves from
the FBI head office in Washington DC to those ordinary Americans and
made my unlisted phone# appear on their phone caller ids, as if I am
calling them.

Please speak to, ADVISE and ENCOURAGE these people above to file
lawsuits against the US government and FBI for violating their privacy
and for phone harassment.

Once a Caucasian male FBI agent in a Comcast van threatened to ram
into my car from behind and came within half an inch of hitting me
from behind even though there was no traffic altercation between us on
a city street in Southfield in Feb 2002.

Two FBI agents once shouted at me and abused me verbally in a Sports
Authority store parking lot approximately around Feb 2002 in Livonia,
MI.

FBI ILLEGALLY stole passwords of all my email and internet accounts
with the help of bugs installed on my computer.

FBI agents have followed me even when I went to see a doctor. There
was one Caucasian FBI agent in a white truck with GA license plate APZ
7647 on 5/24/04, waiting for me in a truck in the hospital parking lot
listening to the conversation I was having with the doctor using voice
amplification devices.

I am currently living in a two bedroom apartment  sharing it with
another person and the FBI sadists made anonymous calls to the
apartment management office with fictitious complaints and tried to
get me evicted from the apartment in July 2004.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home in May
2004, stole a "yellow highlighter" and after I moved to a different
Atlanta suburbs a month later entered my apartment again when I was
not home and placed the "yellow highlighter" on the carpet in the
middle of my bedroom by the time I came back from watching Fahrenheit
9/11 movie on 6/27/04. The FBI knew that I went to watch Fahrenheit
9/11 movie on 6/27/04 because they were watching me looking for
directions and movie times on the internet and also with the help of
gps vehicle tracking devices in my car.

I spoke to an attorney from a pay phone on 6/24/04 and during the
conversation I asked the attorney if we can get a court order to force
the Internet Service Provider to reveal if my internet web surfing is
being monitored by the FBI and lo and behold my internet account
MYSTERIOUSLY DISAPPEARED from the ISP computers on 6/25/04. On inquiry
my ISP told me somebody called and cancelled my internet account the
previous day, which I never did.

I rented a car on 7/14/04, bought a cell phone and stayed in a hotel
that night and by next morning 7/15/04, the FBI has figured out where
I was staying and wire tapped my cell phone and tracked me by placing 
gps vehicle tracking devices even in the rental car.

FBI agents ILLGEALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
7/16/04 and LOCKED the bathroom door from inside, by the time I came
back in the evening.
FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home between
7/15/04 and 7/18/04 and logged on to my computer and REMOVED a stock
list from my Yahoo account.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
7/18/04 in the morning and turned the Air Conditioner "ON"
intentionally by the time I came back to TORTURE me.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 7/18/04 when I was not
home and placed a razor blade and a nickel (which they STOLE from my
apartment in Marietta in May 2004) and put it in a plastic bag to
TAUNT ME  to say WHAT CAN YOU DO ?
 
FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment in the early hours of
7/22/04 (while I was still sleeping in bed) and opened a tote bag I
kept next to the pillow and unzipped a small bag (zip which I closed
the previous night) inside, just to  TERRORIZE ME as if to say, we can
and will do anything to you and you can't do anything to us because we
FBI are GODS.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home on
7/22/04 during the day time and placed the TV remote this time hanging
on the edge of the bed to TERRORIZE me that they entered my apartment.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment sometimes when I was not
home, pretending to be Wall Street Journal delivery personnel and
delivered sometimes MUTIPLE copies of the paper on the same day and
also sometimes delivered multiple Chinese restaurant take out
brochures.

My room mate goes to work around 6 AM and on the night of 7/23/04 I
pasted a 8.5 X 11 page note on the inside of the apartment entrance
door for my room mate to wake me up when he leaves so I can bolt the
hotel lock from inside and go back to sleep. My room mate woke me up
like I requested and I bolted the hotel lock from inside of my
apartment and went back to sleep at 6 AM on the morning of 7/24/04.
The sadistic FBI agents STILL ENTERED my second floor apartment while
I was asleep between 6:00 AM and 10:00 AM on 7/24/04 and REMOVED the
8.5X11 inch page pasted note on the inside of entrance door and LEFT
IT on the ENTERTAINMENT CENTER in the living room just to TORTURE ME
mentally and TERRORIZE me &#8220;We entered your apartment even when
you locked the hotel lock bolt and did this, but what can you do
?&#8221;

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment when I was not home in the
evening on 7/24/04 and again opened the tote bag and unzipped a small
bag which is inside the tote bag and also STOLE a one time use Kodak
camera from my bedroom which I bought on 7/23/04 in Wal Mart.

FBI agents have REGULARLY entered my apartment ILLEGALLY with laptops
when I was not home and copied information from my computer and floppy
disks and messed them up.

FBI agents have destroyed my livelihood by assasinating my character
with potential employers by making anonymous calls to them when I sent
resumes since FBI is privy to all the email addresses and phone
numbers of the recruiters and potential employers. I do NOT think this
is an EXCEPTION and imagine how many ordinary Americans have been
suffering this FBI SADISM for years without knowing it.

Sadistic FBI agents called me at least 30 times repeatedly in the
space of an hour and a half between 7:00 and 8:30 pm on 7/27/04 and
asked for Roberto Fernandez knowing fully well that nobody by that
name lived in my apartment and infact said "You are so funny" and made
WEIRD SOUNDS like aye, uye, ick, ihe etc while watching me real time
live all the time with the video surveillance devices installed in the
ceiling of my bedroom when I answered the phone.
 
FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on the night of 8/1/04 when
I was asleep and stole prepaid calling card pin numbers from my
trouser pockets. One of the prepaid calling cards in my trouser pocket
was called "I Conexion" and the FBI next day called me on 8/2/04 and
made the number 770-242-8775 with caller name "Internet Conexion"
appear on my caller id to TERRORIZE me, that they entered my apartment
the previous night and stole the prepaid calling numbers from my
trouser pocket. The phone# above is NOT an FBI# but some other
company.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was asleep on 8/2/04
night even though the hotel lock was  bolted from inside, and placed
the tv remote face down on the end table of my bedroom, folded a
prepaid calling card in my trouser pocket and formed a crease on the
card, removed a library map from the file folder (which was inside a
tote bag) and placed it outside the file folder and unzipped the back
pocket of the tote bag half way down and left it there to torture me.

FBI agents have been alerting the security departments of WalMart,
Best Buy, JC Penney stores etc with fictitious complaints when I went
there for shopping, so the security cameras in those stores are
constantly focused on me and watching me while I was in those stores.

I rented a car on 8/5/04 and stayed in a hotel to get some privacy and
the sadistic FBI agents still tracked me down that night and left the
rental car doors unlocked by next morning on 8/6/04.

I changed the car rented the previous day on 8/6/04 and traveled a
couple of hours on a highway, took an exit, parked my car in a strip
mall parking lot and spent about 20 minutes in a retail store and by
the time I got back to the car, FBI agents followed me and put two
quarters on a plastic bag containing donuts in the back seat of the
car just to taunt and terrorize me they are still following me even
when I rented a car and drove out of the city.

To protect myself from these SADISTIC FBI agents entering into my
apartment and stealing things when I am asleep, I locked my bedroom
door from the inside and put a small heavy box and a 19 inch TV on top
of the box against the bed room door on the night of 8/7/04 so if the
FBI agents try to open my bedroom door, the TV will fall off the box
at the slightest movement of the door, make a big sound and wake me
up. On the morning of 8/8/04 around 9:00 AM I woke up to a giant
thudding sound of the TV falling on the floor from the box and FBI
agents speeding away by the time I realized what happened. FBI agents
entered my apartment and opened my locked bedroom and pushed the door
at 9:00 AM so hard, they pushed the box a good two feet away from the
door. The FBI SADISTS are even willing to break my 19 inch TV to
TORTURE and TERRORIZE me.

FBI agents STOLE a pilot pen pack (which I bought from CVS Pharmacy on
8/8/04) from my car on the night of 8/8/04 and entered my apartment on
8/9/04 when I was not home from 11 AM - 12 noon and placed the pilot
pen pack under a chair on the carpet in the living room to torture me.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 8/10/04 between 1:00pm
and 1:15 pm (just 15 min) when I went to Publix and turned the TV "On"
in my bedroom by the time I came back to mentally torture me.

SADISTIC FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was taking
shower on 8/12/04 around 1:00pm and removed a shaving set scissors
from the tote bag pocket in my bedroom and placed it on the iron board
in my bedroom. FBI was able to execute this operation because they
were watching me taking shower "real time live" with video devices
installed in my "bathroom".

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment even when the hotel lock was
bolted from inside in the early hours of 8/16/04 while I was asleep
and removed the middle row donuts in a 12 pack krispy kreme donut box
in the refrigerator and placed them in the empty left row and placed
the concord grape jelly bottle horizontally in the refrigerator and
unplugged the tv cable from the cable outlet in my bedroom to TORTURE
me that they are still entering my apartment anytime they want at
their will.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment while I was asleep in the
early hours of 8/20/04 even when I put a coffee  table against the
apartment entrance door and a small heavy box and a 19in TV against my
bedroom door from the inside and searched the locked tote bag and
unzipped the back pocket of the tote bag half way down and left it
there to TERRORIZE ME that they are still entering my apartment no
matter what precautions I take.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered my apartment on 8/22/04 around 7:30pm
while I was taking a nap and turned the Air Conditioner "ON" to TAUNT
me that they were entering my apartment EVEN WHEN I WAS still in my
apartment.

FBI agents stole a Gillette disposable razor on the night of 8/25/04
from my duffel bag and placed it between the drivers seat and driver
side door near the trunk opening lever of my car.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY opened the rental car I rented, in a hotel
premises on the night of 8/27/04 and removed the cup holder and placed
it infront of the parking brake of the car to HARASS ME that they are
still following me even when I rented a car and stayed in a hotel.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY even tapped MetroPCS cell phone numbers
instantaneously as soon as I bought them on the same day.
 
SADISTIC FBI agents AMUSED themselves by turning my bedroom table lamp
in my bedroom, ON and OFF by using remote control devices, sometimes
while I was browsing the web.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY CHANGED three passwords (even though I used
Kinkos to keep my PASSWORDS PRIVATE) of my three email ids that I was
using to send this document to investigative reporters between 8/26/04
and 8/28/04 to "PREVENT ME" from EXPOSING their SADISM, PERVERSION,
TERRORISM and MENTAL TORTURE, by either ILLEGALLY installing key
logging software on kinkos computers or by some other ILLEGAL MEANS
unknown to me. So I created brand new email ids and sent this document
and god knows when the SADISTIC FBI will change the passwords of my
NEW email ids.

FBI agents ILLEGALLY entered the hotel rooms even when locked from
inside where I stayed in August and September and installed video
surveillance devices and moved things around from the tote bag&#8217;s
zipped side pocket into the tote bag to TERRORIZE me that they will
INVADE my privacy and MENTALLY TORTURE me even when I slept in hotel
rooms.

To escape this FBI sadism, I went and slept in an acquaintance's
apartment in the first week of September 2004 and the SADISTIC FBI
agents still came and entered that apartment, installed video
surveillance devices in the acquaintance's apartment and drew a curvy
line with a knife on the black colored apartment door of the
acquaintance to TERRORIZE me.

Sometimes when I spoke to my roommate in non-English language, the
psycho-analysis OBSESSED SADISTIC FBI agents called me on the phone
immediately and said "komo-isthaaaa" in a SARCASTIC way and asked for
Roberto Fernandez knowing fully well that nobody by that name lived in
my apartment.

Sadistic FBI agents "reacted" to EACH and EVERY word that came out of
my mouth for the last three years by making 2000 UNSOLICITED HARASSING
phone calls at my unlisted private phone numbers.

American "democracy" and "legal system" are a big friggin JOKE and I
ask all Americans to take a deep breadth and THINK for a minute, WHY
DO I HAVE to PROVE to the US Government that they are MENTALLY
TORTURING and TERRORIZING me 24X7 with surveillance devices, violating
all my human rights and ILLEGALLY entering my apartment and moving
around and stealing things when it is the "US GOVERNMENT aka FBI
itself" that is doing it ?

Is this the type of DEMOCRACY, the EVIL American government wants to
SPREAD across the world ???

To all of you who are gonna advise me to wear tinfoil or take drugs
for schizophrenic paranoia, the SADISTIC FBI wants all of you to think
exactly that way so they can CONTINUE to carry on their PERVERSE
SADISM on ordinary american citizens and MISDIRECT and PROGRAM all of
the 290 mil american brains to treat the EVIL, SADISTIC, PERVERTED and
DICTATORIAL FBI like Gods.


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  8 14:27:17 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:27:17 -0400
Subject: Desactivating Python keywords and built-in functions
In-Reply-To: <YOudnW4nu7ESWvvcRVn-tA@comcast.com>
References: <f06d8508.0410080645.17341a82@posting.google.com>
	<ck6b0l$12p$1@online.de> <oMmdneMB9a-PL_vcRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
	<YOudnW4nu7ESWvvcRVn-tA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <5tWdnTuYdYSYQfvcRVn-qw@powergate.ca>

Larry Bates wrote:
> Couldn't you rebind the functions that you want to deactivate
> to another function that didn't do what you don't want done?
> 
> def eval(s, g=None, l=None):
>     pass
> 
> Seems like those new to Python do this all the time with
> list, dict, etc.

It's really quite pointless (or redundant, anyway) to discuss
this until you've searched the list archives for the many
past discussions about this.  Suffice to sasy that the answer
to your suggestion is that there are other ways to find
the real "eval" again.

-Peter


From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 14 11:31:18 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 15:31:18 GMT
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4920.1097716237.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4925.1097734722.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416e9bc5$0$23221$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-14, Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 01:44 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2004-10-14, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >>> Besides that, Linux is Posix compliant and emulates Unix
>> >>> system calls to a large extend, and that also makes C a
>> >>> natural choice.
>> >> 
>> >> Not sure I follow on that point.  Any low level language that
>> >> can deal with a C "struct" and byte-addressible memory would be
>> >> fine.
>> >
>> > Well, Unix itself was written in C,
>> 
>> Originally it wasn't, but recent versions are.
>
> 'Recent' meaning since 1974?  ;)

Yup.  I admit that was sub-optimal phrasing.  I should have
said something more like "The first version wasn't but the rest
were."

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Did you find a
                                  at               DIGITAL WATCH in YOUR box
                               visi.com            of VELVEETA??


From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 16 18:05:13 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 15:05:13 -0700
Subject: tokenise a string
References: <86brfcq9nk.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0410161405.38f66279@posting.google.com>

Matthias Teege <matthias-dated at mteege.de> wrote in message 
> I have a input string like this:
> "name=matthias;count>10" or this "location!=thisone".

> 
> So I must parse the input, build tokens and map the fieldnames. Is
> there a special modul which I can use or are the standard string
> functions adequate?
> 
> Many thanks
> Matthias

This might be helpful.
Shlex can do much more, but I have not had the time to explore it.
#python shell#
>>> import shlex
>>> import cStringIO
>>> myFilelikeString = cStringIO.StringIO("name=matthias;count>10")
>>> lexer = shlex.shlex(myFilelikeString)
>>> while 1:
...     token = lexer.get_token()
...     if token:
...         print token
...     else:
...         break
...     
name
=
matthias
;
count
>

Also look at PySourceColor that I posted it covers token and tokenize.
HTH, 
  M.E.Farmer


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 29 09:52:08 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:52:08 -0400
Subject: Python package anthologies (was Re: ctypes 0.9.2 released)
In-Reply-To: <1gmfclt.1g61j8z1uatvgzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>
	<1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<n5qdnS65dp2K2x_cRVn-1w@powergate.ca>
	<1gmfclt.1g61j8z1uatvgzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8udnU9P34qV1h_cRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
>>Of course, nobody is forcing anyone to include ctypes in the
>>standard distribution either, but it seems that the choice should
>>be made based more on what ctype's *users* think about it than
>>what someone who perhaps has rarely or never actually used it
> 
> ctypes' users can keep using it.  Putting it in the std distro would
> encourage a bazillion others to use it -- there's the rub.

I suppose that's true... it's definitely not hard to download
and install.

Hmm... this leads me to think that maybe what would be a good
idea is a small set of "anthology" distributions of a number
of related packages, allowing a "canned" installation of a
bunch of useful stuff at the same time.

I'm thinking specifically of things that would be appropriate
in the controls field, such as PySerial and ctypes, but I'm
sure other industry-specific collections could easily be
discerned.

That idea, turned into something more concrete, might be
enough to fill in the gap between the standard distribution
and the hundreds of discrete little packages which are scattered
around on myriad web sites.

-Peter


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 00:49:35 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:49:35 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4311.1096951351.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Ovp8d.3155$M05.74@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4311.1096951351.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zJp8d.3165$M05.1860@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> I expect you mean like the above snip work of mine.  I am not new to 
> usenet but I had the perhaps lazy occurance of forgetting to snip the 
> other post.  Thanks for the tip anyhow.

Indeed.  I did some checking and your email address had no
hits in Google so I assumed you were a new person.  Even
your domain is almost unknown to Google Groups except for
a few recent posts from one other 'nym to comp.lang.python.

Had I seen more history I would likely not have commented.
More history would also have made it easier to judge if
this was part of a homework assignment as compared to a
more legitimate question.

Cheers,

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From follower at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 05:29:39 2004
From: follower at gmail.com (Follower)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 02:29:39 -0700
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c18c08f.0410140129.758a70a0@posting.google.com>

Egbert Bouwman <egbert.list at hccnet.nl> wrote in message news:<mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Of course it is not difficult to test if you are reading the first line
> or another one, but it hurts my feelings to do a test which by definition
> succeeds at the first record, and never afterwards.
> Any suggestions ?
An alternative approach (which I'm sure will offend just as many
sensibilities) is to use a function that replaces itself.

------ Pseudo-code ------


def process_firstline(...):

   # ...do something here...
   global processline
   processline = process_otherlines

 
def process_otherlines(...):

   # ...do something here...


processline = process_firstline

for line in file:
   result = processline(line)

----------------------------

If you read more than one file you'll need to reset processline at the
beginning of each file.

I never said this was a *good* way, just one way. :-)

--Phil.


From remy.blank_asps at pobox.com  Tue Oct  5 10:46:09 2004
From: remy.blank_asps at pobox.com (Remy Blank)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:46:09 +0200
Subject: Problem with string parsing
In-Reply-To: <948b993a.0410050638.3a0340ec@posting.google.com>
References: <948b993a.0410050638.3a0340ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cjuc3i$rir$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mike Howard wrote:
> If I do this:
> string.lstrip('1_mature_dt=10-May-2002','1_mature_dt=')
> I get:
> '0-May-2002'
> Which I did not expect

The second argument of lstrip() is not a string to remove from the
beginning of a string but a set of characters to strip. In this case,
there is a '1' in that set, so it gets stripped from the '10-May-2002'.

> Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?

It is by design.

-- Remy


Remove underscore and suffix in reply address for a timely response.



From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Oct 21 04:07:32 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:07:32 +0200
Subject: how to reading binary data...
In-Reply-To: <20041021070520.2594.qmail@webmail25.rediffmail.com>
References: <20041021070520.2594.qmail@webmail25.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041021080731.GE3480@zoran.com>

Hello Sandeep,

>    I opened any particular file with the 'rb' mode that is read binary
>    mode. so python will treat the data as a raw data. now i want to read
>    first 4 bytes only then i will convert the first 4 bytes into long
>    datatype and then again read 4 bytes and will do the same.
>    But how to set & move the pointer using loop?
Each time you read from a file the "file pointer" is automatically
incrmented.

>>> f = open(".bashrc")
>>> f.tell()
0L
>>> f.read(1)
'#'
>>> f.tell()
1L
See http://docs.python.org/lib/bltin-file-objects.html

>    also how to convert into long?
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-struct.html

HTH.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at gmail.com>
http://tebeka.spymac.net
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Wed Oct 20 14:15:14 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 11:15:14 -0700
Subject: testing for uniquness in a large list
References: <pan.2004.10.20.10.01.17.525999@lolmc.com>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0410201015.7320b73d@posting.google.com>

Josiah:
>There are only 125,970 unique sequences of 12 items
>from 20 where order does not matter (20!)/(12!8!),

Right! I was thinking the same thing *after* writing my last post ^_-

With random sampling the generation of the last 10 combinations is a
bit slow, it require a couple of minutes.
There are direct ways to compute them:
http://www.netlib.org/toms/382

Bye,
bearophile


From lonetwin at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 08:19:42 2004
From: lonetwin at gmail.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:49:42 +0530
Subject: How do I create a rpm package with disutils that does not contain
	the source .py files ??
Message-ID: <5a309bd304102805194bf600fb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
    This is my first experiience packaging using the distutils
package. I can't figure out how to create a rpm package with disutils
that does not contain the source .py files ??

Regards
Steve


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Oct 22 23:56:12 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:56:12 -0500
Subject: non-blocking XML-RPC
In-Reply-To: <6Wied.33767$QJ3.8644@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
References: <6Wied.33767$QJ3.8644@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <16761.54876.367134.564844@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Roose> Is there a way to make the xmlrpclib calls using ServerProxy not
    Roose> block?

Sure, in one thread stuff the method and parameters into a Queue object and
return "okay".  A separate computational thread can just get the (method,
params) tuples from the queue and call the long-running function.

Skip


From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 14 10:08:40 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 07:08:40 -0700
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com><8f17f4bc.0410080849.51fbdcfa@posting.google.com><8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62@posting.google.com><a7a67196.0410082348.36fd45a@posting.google.com><8f17f4bc.0410091859.39a6c028@posting.google.com><416a53cd$0$16541$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr><8f17f4bc.0410111438.7d73466f@posting.google.com><416b8d92$0$7227$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr><8f17f4bc.0410121402.1873b7b7@posting.google.com><416cdf1e$0$8640$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<mailman.4907.1097702274.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410140608.181c81cd@posting.google.com>

Thank you all!! it now works just fine! The following is the final code!

import Tkinter
def add_rows(w, titles, rows):
    w.configure(state = 'normal')
    for r in rows:
       for t, v in zip(titles, r):
           w.insert("end", "%s:\t%s\n" % (t, v))
       w.insert("end", "\n")
    w.configure(state='disabled')

app = Tkinter.Tk()
t = Tkinter.Text(app, state='disabled')
t.pack()
info = [['Ali',18],
        ['Zainab',16],
        ['Khalid',18]]
add_rows(t, ["Name", "Age"], info)
app.mainloop()

Thank you all again! :):):)


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Mon Oct 18 20:03:08 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 00:03:08 GMT
Subject: Yet more SMTP
Message-ID: <20041018200308.07480.00002407@mb-m18.aol.com>

Ok with some tweaking I got it to where I could send through my local isp's
smtp server, but I am restricted to sending the message from my ISP's mail
account.  When I respond to Yahoo mail, I want to use my yahoo address.  I was
able to get into aol's smtp with:
s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.aol.com', 587)
        s.set_debuglevel(1)
        s.ehlo()
        s.docmd('AUTH', 'PLAIN')
        s.docmd('LutherRevisited')
        s.docmd('myPassword')
        s.sendmail('lutherrevisited at aol.com', [to], msg)
        s.quit()
but I'm unable to send on that server with my yahoo address, when I try this on
yahoo's smtp server it does not require me to use AUTH, but AOL drops my
messages giving me some kind of 'bulk mail, yada yada' message.  I don't have
this problem with Outlook using Yahoo's smtp server, so I'm curious to know
what it is that Outlook is doing that I'm missing in my code?  With Yahoo I did
something like:
s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.yahoo.com')
        s.set_debuglevel(1)
        s.ehlo()
        s.sendmail('bossierbossman at yahoo.com', [to], msg)
        s.quit()
but this is dropped for some odd reason.  Any thoughts?  Also I never got the
login method of smtp to work with AOL's smtp, so I had to run through that by
hand.  Can someone tell me if I'm missing something there also?


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 30 23:36:31 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:36:31 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41832f8b.1140475326@news.oz.net> <41834032.1144738587@news.oz.net>
	<418357db.1150795766@news.oz.net> <41845759.1216201895@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41845d3c.1217708372@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:11:07 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
Goofed ;-/

def number_in_base(x, N=10, digits='0123456789ABCDEF'):
    return '-'[:x<0]+''.join([digits[r] for q in [abs(x)]
            for q,r in iter(lambda:divmod(q, N), (0,0))][::-1]) or digits[0]

(Shouldn't have hardwired '0' in place of digits[0])

It must be time to eat ... sorry.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Oct 21 15:19:19 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:19:19 -0700
Subject: Pointer to Image
In-Reply-To: <a1301a8e.0410201033.43a05eb8@posting.google.com>
References: <a1301a8e.0410190637.74a091ad@posting.google.com>
	<d5zesplp.fsf@python.net>
	<a1301a8e.0410201033.43a05eb8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10ng2p7eddu4b3a@corp.supernews.com>

Chris Jankowski wrote:

>    # [...]
>    setLanguage = myOcr.SetLanguage
>    setLanguage('ENGLISH',".")
>
>    setOutputMode = myOcr.SetOutputMode
>    setOutputMode("OM_TEXT")
>
>    setOutputHandler = myOcr.OCRSetOutputHandler
>    z = id(myOutputHandler)
>    errorx = setOutputHandler(z)
>    # [...]
>

As a minor stylistic note, I find your constant use of temporary local 
names of module functions to be distracting and even slightly 
confusing.  When you actually *call* a function, it's not immediately 
apparent whether that's a helper function that you've written yourself 
or whether it's a function in your OCR module -- I have to backtrack to 
see where the function came from, and I'm never quite sure whether I 
will find it somewhere in the current code block (because you've bound 
the imported function to a local name) or whether I should look 
elsewhere in the current module (because it's a function you've defined 
yourself).

I'd find the above code snippet *much* easier to read without the 
temporaries:

    myOcr.SetLanguage('ENGLISH', ".")
    myOcr.SetOutputMode("OM_TEXT")
    errorx = myOcr.OCRSetOutputHandler( id(myOutputHandler) )

To my eyes, this makes it much more clear where everything is found, and 
because it's so much shorter it's much easier to take in at a glance.

(I also share Thomas Heller's suspicion that passing the id() of 
myOutputHandler() is *not* what you want to do here.  The ID is merely 
an integer that Python uses internally to track an object; it is 
typically not useful for code that wants to *use* an object to know what 
its ID is.  You don't need to know your co-workers' social security 
numbers in order to work with them effectively, right?  Similarly, a 
Python object's ID is only needed in very special circumstances where 
the exact identity of an object is in question, and it's *not* needed 
for normal usage of an object such as being able to call a function object.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From carroll at nospam-tjc.com  Sun Oct 17 21:56:50 2004
From: carroll at nospam-tjc.com (Terry Carroll)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:56:50 -0700
Subject: why doesn't this filter the warning?
References: <vv56n0laacck5ab91bvvcti2jvjkb3b7g7@4ax.com>
	<mailman.5101.1098063358.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ki86n01di9f7n87bb9p2r05ksnr88nu86v@4ax.com>

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:35:54 -0500, Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 06:18:06PM -0700, Terry Carroll wrote:
>> Why won't the filterwarnings call suppress this?
>
>The warning is produced at the time the code is *parsed*, not when it is
>*executed*.  You could suppress the warning in an imported module by
>putting the suppression above the import of the problem module, for
>instance.

Thanks!  

The problem code was actually: 

sum = sum & 0xffffffff 

Which was unnecessary, so I removed it, but I was curious why the
suppression technique, my first cut at fixing it (just in case I
misunderstood something) didn't work.


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Fri Oct 15 16:27:13 2004
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:27:13 -0400
Subject: Why does super take a class name as the argument?
In-Reply-To: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>
References: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>
Message-ID: <2taq57F1sir22U1@uni-berlin.de>

Chris Green wrote:
> I've done a bit of searching in the language reference and a couple
> pages referring the behavior of super() but I can't find any
> discussion of why super needs the name of the class as an argument.

Think about it. In this code:

class A(object):
     def do_stuff(self):
         print "A is doing stuff now."


class B(A):
     def do_stuff(self):
         super(B, self).do_stuff()
         print "B is doing stuff now."


class C(B):
     def do_stuff(self):
         super(C, self).do_stuff()
         print "C is doing stuff now."


How would Python know that B should call C's do_stuff() method instead 
of its own if there was no class argument? The self argument would be 
exactly the same when C called super() as when B called it. There has 
been some talk of making super into a language keyword instead of a 
type, though; that would eliminate the need to even pass in self.


From DoubleMPi at Netscape.com  Sat Oct  2 13:39:57 2004
From: DoubleMPi at Netscape.com (Mike Moum)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 17:39:57 GMT
Subject: Help - my Tkinter is broken
Message-ID: <NJB7d.16164$FZ5.2713@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

Hi,

I'm running Mepix Linux, which is a Debian based distribution. 
Python-2.3.4 is installed in /usr/lib.  When I try to import Tkinter 
into Python, I get the following error message:
ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload/_tkinter.so: undefined 
symbol: PyFPE_jbuf
I've tried the following fixes:
1) Recompile Python from scratch.  No good.
2) Delete _tkinter.so from /usr/lib/Python2.3/lib-dynload, then 
recompile.  However, when I did that there was no _tkinter.so rebuilt in 
/usr/lib/Python2.3/lib-dynload.  I have sub-directories for tcl-8.4 and 
tk-8.4 under /usr/lib.
3) Thinking that the compilation process is looking for tk and tcl under 
/usr/local/lib, I created symlinks there to /usr/lib/tcl-8.4 and 
/usr/lib/tk-8.4, and then repeated step 2.  Still no _tkinter.so.

Searching on google did not find anything useful.

Can anyone help, please.

Thanks,
Mike


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 21 14:19:05 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:19:05 -0400
Subject: Actual memory used by an object --- How to Determine?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5273.1098381793.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <E1CKcEE-0005j6-00@localhost>
	<mailman.5273.1098381793.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl8ui0$8su$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> zooko at zooko.com wrote:
> 
>>Here some some functions I've used to analyze memory usage in the past.
>>
>>http://mnetproject.org/repos/pyutil/pyutil/memutil.py
> 
> The site is down.

Worked from here, both before and after your post.  Try again?

-Peter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 07:54:03 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:54:03 +0200
Subject: How to determine if a file is busy?
References: <c89d662c.0410080246.52ed9407@posting.google.com>
	<ck5uiv$hhj$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <1glcbu7.po1w0e8mxyl6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Benjamin Niemann <b.niemann at betternet.de> wrote:

> How about writing the data to a file 'mydata.new' and when you are finished,
> delete 'mydata' and rename 'mydata.new' to 'mydata'.
> This way the python script will always get 'complete' files (and sometimes no
> file at all, when it come in between rm and mv ...)

I believe that 'mv' on Mac OS X, within a normal filesystem, is an
atomic operation anyway -- so, so need to rm first then mv.  On the
other hand, this would give no intrinsic guarantee that the datafile
previously produced HAS been consumed/recorded before it's removed.


Alex


From rdjdvd at inwind.it  Tue Oct 26 16:03:47 2004
From: rdjdvd at inwind.it (RDJ)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 13:03:47 -0700
Subject: DictObjSys (DOS): Dictionary Objects System V.0.0.1 (2004 Oct 26)
Message-ID: <c88425e6.0410261203.3dd9ce65@posting.google.com>

=== This is a AoooAoooA project (^_^) ===

DictObjSys (DOS): Dictionary Objects System V.0.0.1 (2004 Oct 26)

    Copyright (C) 2004 RDJ

    This library is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
    modify it under the terms of the GNU Library General Public
    License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either
    version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.

    This library is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
    but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
    MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU
    Library General Public License for more details.

    You should have received a copy of the GNU Library General Public
    License along with this library; if not, write to the Free
    Software Foundation, Inc., 675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA.
    

TABLE OF CONTENTS
*****************

 _REFERENCES
 _FILES
 _RUN_DOS
 
 
 _REFERENCES
************

Redirect: AoooAoooA.too.it
____Site: it.geocities.com/dawjde/AoooAoooA.html
___Email: rdjdvd at inwind.it (OBJECT: [AoooAoooA] your object)


_FILES
******

DictObjSys/DOS.py...........library
DictObjSys/GNU_LGPL.txt.....GNU LIBRARY GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
DictObjSys/README.txt.......this file


_RUN_DOS
********

DOS is a library but you can run a test:

python DOS.py


Appear:

This is a test:
1-2
['three.a', 'three.b']
1-2-3b


It is OK! Now view the source code...

#
# Class
#

class DOS:
	def __init__(self):
		self.value = None
		self.dict = {}

	def get(self,path):
		dos = self.getDOS(path)
		if dos == None:
			return None
		else:
			return dos.value
	
	def getDOS(self,path):
		pl = path.split('/')
		dos_tmp = self
		try:
			for r in pl:
				dos_tmp = dos_tmp.dict[r]
			return dos_tmp
		except KeyError:
			return None

	def keys(self):
		return self.dict.keys()

	def set(self,path,value):
		pl = path.split('/')
		dos_tmp = self
		for r in pl:
			if dos_tmp.dict.has_key(r) == False:
				dos_tmp.dict[r] = DOS()
			dos_tmp = dos_tmp.dict[r]
		dos_tmp.value = value;
#
# Main
#

if __name__ == '__main__':
	print 'This is a test:'
	dos = DOS()
	dos.set('one/two','1-2')
	dos.set('one/two/three.a','1-2-3a')
	dos.set('one/two/three.b','1-2-3b')
	print dos.get('one/two')
	print dos.getDOS('one/two').keys()
	print dos.get('one/two/three.b')


From theller at python.net  Mon Oct 25 08:45:22 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:45:22 +0200
Subject: py2exe and UPPER CASE file system
References: <clim4g$3nv$3@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
Message-ID: <u0sj3r19.fsf@python.net>

Werner Merkl <werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
>
> my problem is, I try to use a py2exe compiled python script from a
> CD-ROM. This should work, BUT the tool I use (or have to use)
> generates only upper case file names on the CD-ROM.
>
> For py2exe 0.4.1 and python 2.2 this worked fine... but the current
> releases do not.

I would say if it worked it was a bug ;-).

Does it work in newer versions when you set the PYTHONCASEOK environment
variable?

Thomas


From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 21:26:46 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 18:26:46 -0700
Subject: IDLE--what are your experiences with it?
References: <Pm8ed.3143$Ag.3109@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0410221726.ae212a4@posting.google.com>

Kevin Walzer <sw at wordtech-software.com> wrote in message news:<Pm8ed.3143$Ag.3109 at fe37.usenetserver.com>...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I'm looking for other peoples' viewpoints about their experiences with
> IDLE as an editor--what are its good points? What are its limitations?
> Any advice/insight is appreciated.
> 

it is the lowest common denominator. 

there are MUCH MUCH better alternatives

www.xored.com has a nice plugin for Eclipse 3.x

that is much better than IDLE


From shalabh at cafepy.com  Tue Oct 12 14:27:17 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:27:17 -0700
Subject: Alternatives for pickle?
In-Reply-To: <slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <ckh7i3$jef$1@sea.gmane.org>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> | Warning: The pickle module is not intended to be secure against
> | erroneous or maliciously constructed data. Never unpickle data
> | received from an untrusted or unauthenticated source.
> 
> But since this is for a game and people should be able to
> exchange puzzles, it seems a heavy requirement to ask of
> the users to check a puzzle file for security hazards.
> 

http://twistedmatrix.com/products/spread#jelly

I haven't used it myself, though. In fact you might be able to use 
twisted in other ways as well.

Shalabh

--
http://www.qlime.org



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Oct 12 19:29:13 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:29:13 -0700
Subject: Artifical Life - a job for someone else
References: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416C68C9.F3271A1C@alcyone.com>

Michael Foord wrote:

> I really miss a decent Cellular Automota program and I was really
> surprised that there weren't lot's of implementations for python.
> 
> I've seen 'cage' around, but this uses curses so doesn't work on
> windoze :-(

I know that Kevin Altis at one point was experimenting with hooking up
CAGE to PythonCard; I don't know how far he got or whether it eventually
got released (as a PythonCard sample).  Martijn Faassen was kind enough
to let me know about a CAGE integration he did for pygame, which
apparently is working and he sent me sample code (and I'm sure he'd be
happy to send it to you).

But even if neither of those things interest you, there _is_ a Python
curses module that works with Windows:

	http://flangy.com/dev/python/curses/

I haven't looked at it recently, but when it was initially announced I
checked CAGE out in it and found to my pleasant surprise that it worked
flawlessly and I didn't see any problems (the Web page even mentions my
report).  As I said I haven't examined it recently, but I'm sure it's
only improved in the meantime.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Winners are men who have dedicated their whole lives to winning.
    -- Woody Hayes


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct 21 17:22:25 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:22:25 GMT
Subject: Method Underscores?
In-Reply-To: <CLRdd.26753$J16.1547943@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<mailman.5249.1098340790.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cdJdd.5313$WN5.3726@trndny08>
	<YwRdd.231$N92.55@fe61.usenetserver.com>
	<CLRdd.26753$J16.1547943@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <lMVdd.3552$%h1.2203@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Nicolas Fleury wrote:
> And a syntax would be needed to get that function, that's why I like so 
> much the Python approach.  My only complain is that _somename_ would 
> probably have been enough instead of __somename__.  In C++, all 
> _[A-Z_].* are reserved, reserve _.*_ would have been enough in Python IMHO.

Though I liked how the win32 code uses '_.*_' for its
special properties.  It's 1/2 way between user- and
system- space so it was a very nice touch.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Oct 28 04:38:18 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:38:18 +0200
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 13, Issue 462
In-Reply-To: <00b301c4bcc0$db5770a0$0100000a@vic.bigpond.net.au>
References: <20041028071356.D4B5C1E4011@bag.python.org>
	<00b301c4bcc0$db5770a0$0100000a@vic.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <20041028083818.GA1425@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 05:06:35PM +0930, Dave Beech wrote:
> please stop sending this shit to my email. im not fucking interested
> . thank you
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > python-list-request at python.org

Read the instructions and unsubscribe, instead of wasting your time
and everyone else's.

-- Gerhard
-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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From http  Fri Oct  8 01:07:51 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 22:07:51 -0700
Subject: literal hex value to bin file.
References: <6e07b825.0410070125.5b3e47a3@posting.google.com>
	<DaKdnbopTNVBvfjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<6e07b825.0410072051.5504e4f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xoejdn6fs.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.) writes:
> I seemed to have worked it out.  The bit of code below will write
> the actual hex string literal to a binary file as is.  What I kept
> getting was the hexascii representation of the hex string, so that
> '9' would write to file as 0x39 and 'a' would write to the file as
> 0x61. What I wanted was '9' to write to the file as 0x09 and '7f' to
> write out as 0x7f.

Oh I see.  Normally you'd use the chr function:
  i = int('7f', 16) 
  fh.write (chr(i))


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 17:53:59 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:53:59 +0200
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
References: <mailman.5138.1098132727.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl2ldp$p5o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5179.1098204696.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.5184.1098208437.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl3mgv$i24$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1glx9uk.19y2l5yvlo403N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<UPfdd.4446$bV5.684@trndny07>
Message-ID: <1glxgyr.d4rury1kve6fhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Raymond Hettinger <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:

> [Alex Martelli]
> > Stylistically, I prefer
> >     iter(random.random, None)
> > using the 2-args form of the built-in iter, to
> >     itertools.starmap(random.random, itertools.repeat(()))
> 
> FWIW, I prefer loading the itertools recipes so I can write:
> 
>      repeatfunc(random.random)
> 
> IMO, that is plainer than both the iter() and starmap() versions.

I agree, but I cannot distribute Python code containing that, since the
itertools recipes aren't part of the stdlib.


> > However, itertools IS a speed demon...:
> >
> > kallisti:~/cb alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import random, itertools as it'
> > \     > 'list(it.islice(iter(random.random, None), 666))'
> > 1000 loops, best of 3: 884 usec per loop
> >
> > kallisti:~/cb alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import random, itertools as it'
> > \     > 'list(it.islice(it.starmap(random.random, it.repeat(())), 666))'
> > 1000 loops, best of 3: 407 usec per loop
> 
> Also time:
> 
>     iter(random.random, 1.0)
> 
> IIRC, floats compare to each other faster than a float to None.

Excellent observation!  They do indeed:

kallisti:~/cb/little_neat_things alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import
random, itertools as it' 'list(it.islice(iter(random.random, 1.0),
666))'
1000 loops, best of 3: 564 usec per loop


Alex


From ville at spammers.com  Thu Oct  7 16:57:10 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 23:57:10 +0300
Subject: Toward Python's future article
References: <mailman.4516.1097169723.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7mzyy1c2h.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "daniel" == daniel narf <vegeta.z at gmail.com> writes:

    daniel> Hi i am sure most of you have read the article of Andrew
    daniel> Kuchling about focusing more in the standart library than
    daniel> language newFeatures/tweaking and probably i

Tweaking/optimizing the interpreter is all right IMO. Language
features, esp. genexps are welcome too. I'm still not sure whether we
are at the local maximum yet.

Actually, what I'd like to see is (with a strong FWIW disclaimer, of
course):

1. Stabilize the language for Python 2.x series. 

2. Start thinking about the important stuff that will go into py3.0 -
   especially the major design issues like optional type declarations
   that will pay off in products like IronPython.

3. Collect lots of "best of breed" stuff in a psedo-official "extra
   batteries" distribution. This should include useful and
   API-stable-ish frameworks. Some of the current standard libraries
   could be moved to the extra batteries.

4. Publish a canonical type inference system for Python source code,
   implemented in Python of course. 

5. Put some effort in maturization of pydev+eclipse, making it the
   "obvious" choice for the freeloaders who still want a mature IDE.

Yes, point 5 has very little to do with python standard libraries,
just something that would accelerate corporate penetration among the
uninitiated programmers, and is tightly mingled with point 4.

    daniel> i am personaly very interested in improving the stdlib
    daniel> which is very messy in my opinion right now.

I'm kinda surprised about the negative press the stdlib has been
getting as a result of AMK's blog entry. I still think stdlib is
beautiful :-).

    daniel> the article(several comments): 

    daniel> http://www.amk.ca/diary/archives/cat_python.html#003382


-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 15:23:20 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:23:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041011T210200-941@post.gmane.org>

Jeff Shannon <jeff <at> ccvcorp.com> writes:

> Lambdas are hard to read, because they're significantly different, 
> syntactically, from any other construct in the language

Yes, they are different (summarizing your points):
* no parens around argument list
* returns a value without the return statement
* contains a single expression, not a sequence of statements

Of course, comparing something like the new decorator syntax to the older 
equivalent will also point out a construct that's "significantly different, 
syntactically, from any other construct in the language":

@d1
@d2
def f():
    pass

as opposed to

def f():
    pass
f = d1(d2(f))

Some points (in parallel with yours, as much as possible):
* no parens, but functions are called
* rebinds a name without an assignment statement[1]
* appear as expressions, but act like statements
* appear before a def, but are applied after

I'd contend that lambda syntax is much more in-line with the rest of Python 
than decorator syntax.  Not that I'm suggesting we get rid of decorator 
syntax -- I've already found it useful on a number of occasions.  I just 
wanted to point out that, all things considered, lambdas are probably more 
consistent with Python than decorators are.

Steve

[1] Actually, I believe the function is not bound to a name until after the 
decorators are applied, but I don't think it's completely unreasonable to talk 
of this as a name rebinding.




From faheem at email.unc.edu  Sat Oct  9 15:31:30 2004
From: faheem at email.unc.edu (Faheem Mitha)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 19:31:30 GMT
Subject: integer type conversion problem/question
References: <slrncmf2hc.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
Message-ID: <slrncmgf4i.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>

[Screwed up setting the followup, sorry. Really setting followups to
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ this time.]

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 06:50:20 GMT, Faheem Mitha <faheem at email.unc.edu> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm not sure what would be more appropriate, so I'm ccing it to both
> alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ and comp.lang.python, with followup to
> alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++.
>
> While working with a random number generator in the context of a mixed
> Python/C++ programming problem. I encountered a vexing type
> conversion problem.

[snip]

Thanks to Alwyn and Terry Reedy for explaining things to me.  I think
I understand the main points. Harbison and Steele's "C A Reference
Manual" (I have the 4th Edn) had a clear explanation of how C
implements unsigned and signed ints, including two's complement and
all that.

It looks like using a random number generator which uses unsigned ints
as its seeds with Python is probably close to impossible then. Can
anyone suggest a good C/C++ random number implementation which can be
used easily with Python in this fashion? I want something that is
full-featured, ie. has reasonable support for different random number
distributions. Also, something that was already packaged in a
reasonable fashion as part of a shared library would be nice. I
suppose something whose seeds are stored as ints or longs would work
Ok.

I was trying to use r-mathlib
(http://packages.debian.org/unstable/math/r-mathlib), the Debian
package corresponding to the standalone C Mathlib (math/stat library)
from R (www.r-project.org). Unfortunately the random number
implementation uses unsigned ints, hence all the kerfuffle. I'm
including the source code at the end of this message, for the record.

I did have one followup question. If Python implements its integers as
signed C ints then surely 2^31 - 1 should be an integer rather than a
long? But I get

 In [9]: 2**31 - 1
 Out[9]: 2147483647L

 In [10]: type(2**31 - 1)
 Out[10]: <type 'long'>

Thanks for the help.
							      Faheem.

***********************************************************************
src/nmath/standalone/sunif.c
***********************************************************************
/*
 *  Mathlib : A C Library of Special Functions
 *  Copyright (C) 2000, 2003  The R Development Core Team
 *
 *  This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
 *  it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
 *  the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
 *  (at your option) any later version.
 *
 *  This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
 *  but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
 *  MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
 *  GNU General Public License for more details.
 *
 *  You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
 *  along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
 *  Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA  02111-1307  USA
 *
 */

/* A version of Marsaglia-MultiCarry */

static unsigned int I1=1234, I2=5678;

void set_seed(unsigned int i1, unsigned int i2)
{
    I1 = i1; I2 = i2;
}

void get_seed(unsigned int *i1, unsigned int *i2)
{
    *i1 = I1; *i2 = I2;
}


double unif_rand(void)
{
    I1= 36969*(I1 & 0177777) + (I1>>16);
    I2= 18000*(I2 & 0177777) + (I2>>16);
    return ((I1 << 16)^(I2 & 0177777)) * 2.328306437080797e-10; /* in [0,1) */
}


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Oct 16 16:32:00 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:32:00 +0200
Subject: get the name of lambda
References: <ckr59p$1epo$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <wzsm8eiev3.fsf@ordesa.local>

>>>>> George Yoshida <ml at dynkin.com> (GY) wrote:

GY> Just out of curiosity, is there any way to get the name of a
GY> lambda expression? Lambdas are anonymous functions, so it's a
GY> stupid idea to get the name of it. But if it's possible, how
GY> could I?

You already said it: it's a stupid idea. Anonymous means: having no name,
so what is the name of an anonymous thing supposed to be.

GY> Let's take a simple example:
GY>   foo = lambda:None

In your example foo is not the name of the lambda. It is just a variable
whose value is the lambda expression.

-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 08:58:04 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 05:58:04 -0700
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<-JSdna307N6Pqe7cRVn-qQ@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410180458.304fdf1f@posting.google.com>

Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote in message news:<-JSdna307N6Pqe7cRVn-qQ at giganews.com>...
> From the docs:
> 
>  > "The config module can read config files in Microsoft's ini file format,
>  > java's properties file format, or its own python config format -- these
>  > can even be mixed."
> 
> To me this does not sound appealing. People might just end
> up being confused of what the actual file format is.
> All these formats are so simple that supporting them all
> only makes the usage more complicated.
> 


I don't think this is a problem. ini file format is simple enough - if
people just want a simple config file format the following is
straightforward enough :

[section name]
keyword = value

However the fact that it can support alternative formats is a good
thing. The important thing then becomes how good is the documentation.
If you document the simple use case first with alternatives afterwards
it should be easy enough.


>  > "as long as the components of the path are valid Python identifiers,
>  > there is a more convenient attribute syntax available:"
> 
> This means that some features can only be used if the parameter
> names are valid python identifiers, right? When I put it that way,
> it is a bit less attractive.
> 
> Istvan.

This is a valid point though. Dictionary syntax is good ;-)

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From brewer at cs.berkeley.edu  Sat Oct  9 01:05:13 2004
From: brewer at cs.berkeley.edu (Eric Brewer)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 22:05:13 -0700
Subject: newbie question
Message-ID: <ck7ri6$1sll$1@geode.berkeley.edu>

I just installed Python on a Debian (testing) box and it generally works 
fine, but it can't find distutils.core:

 >>> from distutils.core import setup
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named distutils.core


I think my path is OK:

 >>> sys.path
['', '/usr/lib/python23.zip', '/usr/lib/python2.3', 
'/usr/lib/python2.3/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-tk', 
'/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload', 
'/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages', 
'/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages']


1) Where should distutils be?  (This 2.3.4, so I think it is a standard 
module.)

2) Is there any see if "dist*" is anywhere on the path?


Thanks,

-Eric


From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 15:10:44 2004
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony C)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 12:10:44 -0700
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
References: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<clnnsa$b88$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac.0410281110.39d68dc2@posting.google.com>

Michele Petrazzo <michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it> wrote in message 
> The problem is that there are spaces into the path. Try to user 
> os.popen3('"C:\\Program\ Files\\ds9\\ds9"').
> The better choice is:
> 
> path_complete = os.path.join('c:\\', 'Program Files', 'ds', 'ds9')
> os.popen3('"'+ path_complete +'"' )
> 
> It work for me.
> 
> Michele

Try using raw strings, as I had posted in my reply.
Then you don't have to mess with joining strings, or using double
backslashes, or qoutes within quotes.

>>os.popen3(r"C:\Program\ Files\ds9\ds9")


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Tue Oct 26 16:42:21 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:42:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: non-blocking XML-RPC
References: <6Wied.33767$QJ3.8644@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	<1098704419.327870.106990@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <clmcrd$am0$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Sridhar  R <sridharinfinity at gmail.com> pisze:

> The title of the post makes me think of http://twistedmatrix.com

Twisted doesn't work on AS/400.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From nomail at no.way  Thu Oct 28 16:23:12 2004
From: nomail at no.way (Bats)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:23:12 +0200
Subject: Writing a Python font viewer/manager
Message-ID: <clrkae$9uq$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Hello.
On Windows, I used to have a little app that would let me navigate visually
through my 20,000+ fonts and I could create groups of them for quick
install/remove from the system. It was great to be able to type in a word
(say for a logo) and then see it in all the fonts.

I would like to write something similar for Linux (and maybe it'll work on
others) in Python.

I am not really a pro - this would be my first significant Python attempt
and I was wondering if anyone had any pointers.

I have looked at the demos for WxPython - it looks quite good. It crashed
badly on an example where you can drag playing cards around. I tried to
drag the font (or the text) and it hung, not a good sign!

I see that KDE has a way to see ttf files - is there a way to get at that
control via PyQT?

Is an HTML control of some kind the way to go?

It should be able to list hundreds of font samples and allow one to scroll
through them. Being able to 'select' a font by clicking the visual would
also be good.

Any thoughts would be great.
-- 
Bats
~..~
(I can only post on weekends and rare times during the week.)



From john_taylor_1973 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 23 01:20:45 2004
From: john_taylor_1973 at yahoo.com (John Taylor)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 22:20:45 -0700
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch>
Message-ID: <fc30bff.0410222120.69aeb3c6@posting.google.com>

Daniel Mueller <da_mueller at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<cl85jb$2rfa$1 at news.imp.ch>...
> Hello Fellow Python Programmers,
> 
> I have the following problem:
> 
> i want to read the content of a file every 10 seconds. now what is the 
> best funktion to do that? to open the file, read it and close it 
> consumes a lot of CPU time. is there a better solution?
> 
> Greetings Daniel

Daniel,

I have written a python program that does this.  It does not use a lot
of CPU cycles.  You need to change the SLEEP variable from 0.50 to 10.
 I have used it on Windows and on Linux.  Here it is...

-John

#!/usr/bin/env python
"""
tail.py
John Taylor, Oct 19 2004
Adapted from:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=mailman.1028401086.15956.python-list%40python.org
"""

import sys,os,time,stat
SLEEP = 0.50

if len(sys.argv) != 2:
	print
	print "tail.py [ filename ]"
	print
	sys.exit(1)

FILENAME = sys.argv[1]

try:
	fd = os.open(FILENAME,os.O_RDONLY) # on Linux, may want |O_LARGEFILE
except OSError, e:
	print e
	sys.exit(1)

info = os.fstat( fd )
lastsize = info[stat.ST_SIZE]
os.lseek( fd, lastsize, 2 )

try:
	while True:
		info = os.fstat( fd )
		size = info[stat.ST_SIZE]
		if size > lastsize:
			os.lseek(fd, lastsize, 0)
			data = os.read(fd, size - lastsize)
			print data,
			lastsize=size
		time.sleep( SLEEP )
except KeyboardInterrupt:
	pass

# end of program


From .  Sat Oct  9 14:23:56 2004
From: . (pythonnewbie)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:23:56 +0100
Subject: Python Newbie. Python on PPC, please assist.
References: <2qudnV1KKuD7RfvcRVnyhg@pipex.net>
Message-ID: <uqydnWcPC8IgsfXcRVnygg@pipex.net>

Many thanks for your help! I now have Python 2.3.4 installed and running on
the ppc :) You are correct I had to get the ARM release for my device, and
the murkworks one certainly seems to be out of date.
The pythonCE mailing list sounds great- any idea how i can join this?
You mentioned Tk/Tkinter and Tk/Tcl- are these two different development
enviroments?
I had heard about the raw_input limitation, and also heard that the solution
was to use a dialog box for text input.. I am yet to find out how to put in
a dialog box (there doesn't appear to be a function to get text input from a
dialog box...) being so new to all this...
You mentioned that the port had just the standard lib.. Is there any (easy)
way of adding extra libs? I wanted to add the easygame lib and I put it in
what I thought was the appropriate folder on the PPC, and it wouldn't
recognise it.... I put the .pyc easygame lib in, as well as the .py, as all
the files in the folder appeared to be complied ones (.pyc). Still no luck.
Many thanks again for all your help!
P.S. I am new to newsgroups too... I am using Outlook Express to post,
however the replies don't seem to show up in Outlook Express.. When I check
in Outlook Express, it says my original message has no replies, but when I
checked using Google groups, hey presto- there were your two replies! Any
ideas what I'm doing wrong?
"pythonnewbie" <.> wrote in message news:2qudnV1KKuD7RfvcRVnyhg at pipex.net...
> Hi All. I'm just starting to learn programming using Python. I am new to
> programming so please be patient with me!
> I found this for Pocket PC:
> http://www.murkworks.com/Research/Python/PocketPCPython/PPCPythonR2Notes
> I tried installing it and for some reason it would not work. Having
> installed it,  clicking on the program gives the error "PocketPCPython.exe
> or one of it's components cannot be found", even though I am directly
> clicking on the exe, and even after much fiddling making sure all the
files
> are there.
> I'm not a newbie as far as pda's go, so I'm a little confused as to why
it's
> not working.
> What I really want to know though, is what it actually, does before I go
> about spending time getting it working. I mean, is it a development
> environment, like IDLE, or does it just install the Python libraries so
you
> can run Python programs on a PPC, or what? As I said, I am a complete
> programming newbie so sorry if I'm talking rubbish.
> I'd be really greatful if someone could tell me what the Python PPC
program
> is/does. Also if there are any other (better) programs for Python on PPC.
> And if anyone has any ideas why the install didn't work on the PPC, I'd be
> greatful for advice on that too.
> Many thanks in advance.
>
>




From wwitzel3 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 15:21:00 2004
From: wwitzel3 at gmail.com (Wayne Witzel III)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:21:00 -0700
Subject: Using os.system() and string concatenation
In-Reply-To: <ckh9kr$q16$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <7a2229ee041012114353157c1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<ckh9kr$q16$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a2229ee04101212215fadcb18@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:02:53 +0200, Fredrik Lundh
<fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> the + sign doesn't add a space, so you're probably trying to execute
> "/usr/sbin/useraddsomethingsomethingsomethingsomething" instead of
> "/usr/sbin/useradd something something something something".
>

No, I was properly inserting the spaces. When I changed it to a print
statement and executed the resulting output, it worked just fine.
Change it back to os.system() call and it would not work unless I
placed the entire command in the cmd variable.

Seemed very odd to me. Could have been an error I didn't notice and
fixed them I the string to all being stored in the variable, but then
why would the output of the print statement work when I copy and
pasted it?


From davecook at nowhere.net  Thu Oct 28 15:19:20 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:19:20 GMT
Subject: problem understanding pygtk
References: <slrnco2e9c.4gk.tonon@cantina.students.cs.unibo.it>
Message-ID: <slrnco2hhq.a65.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <slrnco2e9c.4gk.tonon at cantina.students.cs.unibo.it>, Samuele
Giovanni Tonon wrote:

> basically i need to make pulse the progressbar while i'm copying files
> and write filenames copied on the ListStore on to the window.

You need to call gtk.main_iteration() to "wake up" the event loop in between
copies.  See

http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=show&file=faq23.020.htp

See also

http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=show&file=faq20.009.htp

Dave Cook


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 11:13:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:13:28 +0200
Subject: automatic accessors to a member var dict elements?
References: <mailman.4968.1097781955.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mu7sfs68m1q28@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmv0fp.ru4.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<10n053nfigpq461@corp.supernews.com>
	<10n09hj2eg0e42@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1glsvrn.n2od5qsd9v35N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
   ...
>  >>> class MyClass(object):
> ...     def __init__(self):
> ...         self.__dict__['m_dict'] = {'one':1, 'two':2, 'three':3}

Incidentally, I suspect

    object.__setattr__(self, 'm_dict', dict(one=1, two=2, three=3))

is preferable to working on self.__dict__ overtly, when self's class is
newstyle, at least (though I think it might work with classic classes
too).  It should come down to the same effect in normal cases, but might
work better if (e.g.) there's a __slots__ = ['m_dict_'] somewhere;-).


Alex


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 31 15:24:41 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:24:41 -0500
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...
 python on ?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5734.1099248851.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5728.1099211579.5135.python-list@python.org>	<6MydncnkdcXecBncRVn-rA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5734.1099248851.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <duadnaezy8iU1xjcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>(I'm sure there's an obvious answer, but I'm curious why
>>they didn't use Basecamp instead of Trac for their bug tracker...)
> 
> This is what I can tell (in the 5 minutes reading their web sites):
> 
> 1. Trac was implemented when they started RubyOnRails, so they used it
> because it fit with what they were doing.
> 2. RubyOnRails was developed.
> 3. Someone implemented Basecamp using RubyOnRails as a framework.
> 
> You can't really build an application before you build a framework, and
> switching project management is, from what I hear, quite a bitch.

You're turning this into a mystery then. :-)  The announcement
that they "have finally taken the step to get a real bug tracker"
came on October 11, 2004.  All the issues in it were added recently.

If they developed RubyOnRails since then, these guys are the
fastest damn programmers on the planet.  I gotta get me some
of that Ruby!  ;-)

-Peter


From somebody at nowhere.com  Wed Oct 13 03:47:18 2004
From: somebody at nowhere.com (Sean Richards)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:47:18 +1300
Subject: how to use fold(or hideshow) in emacs python-mode
References: <1097556223.206641.167420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87brf7xdo9.fsf@hugin.valhalla.net>

"Li Daobing" <lidaobing at gmail.com> writes:

> Hello,
> I want to use fold-mode or hideshow mode under emacs, but it doesn't
> work.
>   Cound you tell me how to do this?
>   Thank you.

You can try this. I use something similar and it works quite well.

--8<--------------------------------------------------------------------

(add-hook 'python-mode-hook 'my-python-hook)

(defun py-outline-level ()
  "This is so that `current-column` DTRT in otherwise-hidden text"
  ;; from ada-mode.el
  (let (buffer-invisibility-spec)
    (save-excursion
      (skip-chars-forward "\t ")
      (current-column))))

; this fragment originally came from the web somewhere, but the outline-regexp
; was horribly broken and is broken in all instances of this code floating
; around.  Finally fixed by Charl P. Botha <<a href="http://cpbotha.net/">http://cpbotha.net/</a>>
(defun my-python-hook ()
  (setq outline-regexp "[^ \t\n]\\|[ \t]*\\(def[ \t]+\\|class[ \t]+\\)")
  ; enable our level computation
  (setq outline-level 'py-outline-level)
  ; do not use their \C-c@ prefix, too hard to type. Note this overides 
  ;some python mode bindings
  (setq outline-minor-mode-prefix "\C-c")
  ; turn on outline mode
  (outline-minor-mode t)
  ; initially hide all but the headers
  (hide-body)
  (show-paren-mode 1)
)

--8<--------------------------------------------------------------------

This code was found here -> http://tinyurl.com/7yyqv

Cheers,  Sean

-- 
"Hver sin smak", sa vintapperen, han drakk mens de andre sloss.


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct  8 13:39:04 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:39:04 GMT
Subject: End of file
In-Reply-To: <1glc06l.1s6wzdn11sa54yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrncmcf1i.dku.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glc06l.1s6wzdn11sa54yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <YgA9d.9451$M05.7622@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex:
> Yes, 2.2 is when Python acquired the 'object' built-in.  If you need to
> also support ancient versions of Python, it's often possible to do so by
> clever initialization -- substituting your own coding if at startup you
> find you're running under too-old versions.

I've used

class sentinel:
   pass


I didn't realized

sentinel = object()

was the new and improved way to do it.

Regarding timings, class def is slower than either [] or
object(), but in any case it's only done once in
module scope.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 12:49:58 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:49:58 +0200
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8dkd.1mk43di1xi6v0dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4418.1097061910.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8lg2.axf8gd9hwlbmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4426.1097075121.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl8zqv.1dppy3q143owj6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> > module and place a dis.dis(dct['my_code']) in the metaclass's __new__
> > and you'll see that basically MyClass.re_execute isn't very different
> > from a reload of the module.  Isn't that a _bit_ too much in general?
> 
> (repeating to myself: dis is your friend. dis is your friend).

If you're hacking at this level, it sure is;-).

> done a few more tests. I found a way to find the correct code object
> for the _body_ of the class statement (or at least I think so), but

Good -- as I said I think it can be even more reliably found from inside
the classbody itself, but, no big deal.

>         exec klass.my_code

Ah, this is your problem -- that's not what you want to do now.

> problem is that the code block that is found refers to the class
> _body_ only. Checking dis.dis() helps to understand it:

Exactly: it's what builds the dict you want to pass to the metaclass
(once you wrap it into a new.function, as I mentioned).

> There is not a single code block that does all the tasks related to
> the class statement, and only it. In fact, there are two different
> code objects to choose from, and neither really solves the problem.

Not by itself, but add some code and you'll be fine.

1. You need to build an f = new.function(klass.my_code, globals()) in
   your classmethod that now erroneously does the exec above quoted (you
   could in fact do this in the metaclass, save the new function rather
   than the code object -- get the right globals via inspect).

2. you need to obtain the needed dict, that's just  d = f()  in your
   method

3. you can now call your metaclass with the appropriate bases and name:
       klas = self.__class__  # or cls if this is a classmethod;-)
       return type(klas)(klas.__name__, klas.__bases__, d)

voila, you're there.  This is all coded to minimize the need to have
this method located in a specific class -- as I said I think you
probably want to have this stuff in the metaclass (if you have a
metaclass at all), but, whatever.


This is basically just mimicking what Python itself does (check the
dis.dis for a class statement as a starter): get the class body's code
object, build a function from it, call the function (it returns its
locals() as the result -- that 'return' is of course in the class body's
code object, and dis.dis shows that...), and that's how you get the
classdict on the stack.  Add name and bases, call the metaclass, and
Bob's your uncle...


Alex


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Thu Oct 14 17:23:30 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:23:30 -0700
Subject: The Art of  Pickling: Binary vs Ascii difficulties
In-Reply-To: <171d9905.0410141128.3104bb95@posting.google.com>
References: <171d9905.0410141128.3104bb95@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416ef368$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Bix wrote:
> As this is my very first post, I'd like to give thanks to all who
> support this with their help.  Hopefully, this question hasn't been
> answered (too many times) before...
 > If anyone could explain this behavior, I'd greatly appreciate it.

You clearly spent some effort on this, but you could have boiled this
down to a smaller, more direct question.

The short answer is, "when reading and/or writing binary data,
the files must be opened in binary."  Pickles in "ascii" are not
in a binary format, but the others are.

The longer answer includes:
You should handle files a bit more carefully.  Don't presume they get
automatically get closed.
I'd change:
 >    fn = 'out.bin'
 >    pickle.Pickler(open(fn,'w'),fmt).dump(w)
 >    obj = pickle.Unpickler(open(fn,'r')).load()
to:
     fn = 'out.bin'
     dest = open(fn, 'w')
     try:
         pickle.Pickler(dest, fmt).dump(w)
     finally:
         dest.close()
     source = open(fn, 'r')
     try:
         return pickle.Unpickler(source).load()
     finally:
         source.close()

Then the problem (the mode in which you open the file) shows up to a
practiced eye.
     dest = open(fn, 'w') ... source = open(fn, 'r')
should either be:
     dest = open(fn, 'wb') ... source = open(fn, 'rb')
which works "OK" for ascii, but is not in machine-native text format.
or:
     if fmt:
         readmode, writemode = 'rb', 'wb'
     else:
         readmode, writemode = 'r', 'b'
     ...
     dest = open(fn, writemode) ... source = open(fn, readmode)

By the way, the reason that binary mode sometimes works (which is,
I suspect, what is troubling you), is that not all bytes are necessarily
written out as-is in text mode.  On Windows and MS-DOS systems,
a byte with value 10 is written as a pair of bytes, 13 followed by 10.
On Apple systems, another translation happens.  On unix (and hence
linux) there is no distinction between data written as text and the
C representation of '\n' for line breaks.  This means nobody on linux
who ran your example saw a problem, I suspect.

This C convention is a violation of the ASCII code as it was then
defined, in order to save a byte per line (treating '\n' as end-of-line,
not line-feed).  An ASCII-conforming printer when fed 'a\nb\nc\r\n.\r\n'
should print:
a
  b
   c
.

My idea of the right question would be, roughly:

Why does test(0) succeed (pickle format 0 = ascii),
but test(-1) fail (pickle format -1 = pickle.HIGHEST_PROTOCOL)?
I am using python 2.4 on Windows2000

import pickle
class node (object):
     def __init__ (self, *args, **kwds):
         self.args = args
         self.kwds = kwds
         self.reset()

     def reset(self):
         self.name = None
         self.node = 'node'
         self.attributes = {}
         self.children = []
         self.update(*self.args,**self.kwds)

     def update(*args,**kwds):
         for k,v in kwds.items():
             if k in self.__dict__.keys():
                 self.__dict__[k] = v

def test(fmt=-1):
     w = node()
     x = node()
     y = node()
     z = node()
     w.children.append(x)
     x.children.append(y)
     y.children.append(z)
     fn = 'out.bin'
     pickle.Pickler(open(fn,'w'),fmt).dump(w)
     obj = pickle.Unpickler(open(fn,'r')).load()
     return obj

The error message is:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<pyshell#24>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    test()
File "<pyshell#22>", line 11, in test
    obj = pickle.Unpickler(open(fn,'r')).load()
File "C:\Python24\lib\pickle.py", line 872, in load
    dispatch[key](self)
File "C:\Python24\lib\pickle.py", line 1189, in load_binput
    i = ord(self.read(1))
TypeError: ord() expected a character, but string of length 0 found


-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  1 08:33:43 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:33:43 -0400
Subject: Python 2.4b1 release date?
In-Reply-To: <8yarofm7.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <87is9ykt9c.fsf@pobox.com> <NoydnTYFWsZiScTcRVn-sg@powergate.ca>
	<8yarofm7.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <MJednUv3F8I608DcRVn-sA@powergate.ca>

John J. Lee wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>>Google found this:
>>http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:YBMzNEmmiNcJ:www.python.org/peps/pep-0320.html+python+2.4b1+date
> 
> 
> No, *you* found it :-) -- I spent ages trying to find it using
> Google...

I'm curious what search terms you might have tried (other
than the "python 2.4b1 date" pattern that I used) which
didn't work.

This isn't to point out your hopelessly pathetic ;-) ability
to google, but because I have a perverse interest in aspects
of library science, especially including how people choose
search terms and how "stupid" search engines can sometimes
be, even one with a market capitalization as high as this
one's. :-)

-Peter


From michael.mata at gaigen.net  Fri Oct 22 15:38:59 2004
From: michael.mata at gaigen.net (michael.mata at gaigen.net)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 12:38:59 -0700
Subject: help with map function
In-Reply-To: <1098471930.321850.283750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <e4217d28.0410212343.524a71ce@posting.google.com>
	<Xns958A5BF66D2B0duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<1098471930.321850.283750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1098473939.157578.16040@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

> I don't have any experience working with *args, **kw arguments.
> From what I've read, *args allows for an unknown number of
> arguments to passed into a function and **kw allows for an
> unknown number of key-value pairs to passed into a function.
> But from what I understand, both are optional.  This shouldn't
> change the how you call apply_each.

I spoke too soon. If the function being called doesn't provide for
*args, or **kw then a TypeError exception will be thrown.



From kent at springfed.com  Sun Oct 17 08:17:43 2004
From: kent at springfed.com (Kent Tenney)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:17:43 -0500
Subject: viewing pydoc output in FireFox
In-Reply-To: <20041017014901.GB2588@unpythonic.net>
References: <cks809$til$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20041016225440.GA2588@unpythonic.net>	<cksa8j$20d$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<20041017014901.GB2588@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <cktnu9$btc$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jeff,

That's wonderful!

I used patch.exe from http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/

For me, this makes pydoc a much more useful discovery tool.
Especially nice is Firefox's incremental search.

Thanks,
Kent

Jeff Epler wrote:
> I don't know.  My mozilla (firefox 0.9.3 on linux) displays ".py" files
> from the file: URLs as text without any special configuration.
> 
> Here's a patch to pydoc to serve .py source files over http as
> text/plain.  It should be fairly easy to apply manually if you don't
> have a unix-style "patch" program on your windows machine (just remove
> the lines marked with "-" and add the ones marked with "+", at around
> the line numbers given in the '@@" line).
> 
> I tested it minimally (again, on my linux machine with firefox 0.9.3)
> and it works nicely.  Modules and packages display their source code,
> and non-.py files are no longer linked.  instead you see text like
>     /usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload/_tkinter.so (Shared module)
> 
> Please feel free to use these changes under the terms of the python
> license.
> 
> --- /usr/lib/python2.3/pydoc.py	2004-05-07 09:52:46.000000000 -0500
> +++ ./pydoc.py	2004-10-16 20:38:59.618007763 -0500
> @@ -515,11 +515,10 @@
>          head = '<big><big><strong>%s</strong></big></big>' % linkedname
>          try:
>              path = inspect.getabsfile(object)
> -            url = path
> -            if sys.platform == 'win32':
> -                import nturl2path
> -                url = nturl2path.pathname2url(path)
> -            filelink = '<a href="file:%s">%s</a>' % (url, path)
> +            if not path.endswith(".py"):
> +                filelink = "%s (Shared module)" % path
> +            else:
> +                filelink = '<a href="/%s.txt">%s</a>' % (".".join(parts), path)
>          except TypeError:
>              filelink = '(built-in)'
>          info = []
> @@ -1812,8 +1811,28 @@
>                  self.wfile.write(html.page(title, contents))
>              except IOError: pass
>  
> +        def send_text(self, contents):
> +            try:
> +                self.send_response(200)
> +                self.send_header('Content-Type', 'text/plain')
> +                self.end_headers()
> +                self.wfile.write(contents)
> +            except IOError: pass
> +
>          def do_GET(self):
>              path = self.path
> +            if path.endswith(".txt"):
> +                path = path[:-4]
> +                if path[:1] == '/': path = path[1:]
> +                try:
> +                    obj = locate(path, forceload=1)
> +                except ErrorDuringImport, value:
> +                    self.send_document(path, html.escape(str(value)))
> +                    return
> +                f = inspect.getabsfile(obj)
> +                    
> +                self.send_text(open(f).read())
> +                return
>              if path[-5:] == '.html': path = path[:-5]
>              if path[:1] == '/': path = path[1:]
>              if path and path != '.':
> 



From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Sun Oct 31 05:28:47 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:28:47 +0200
Subject: Enumerate question: Inner looping like in Perl
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5720.1099162140.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <4183d256$0$3665$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
	<mailman.5720.1099162140.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4184bef5$0$19027$39db0f71@news.song.fi>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> Pekka Niiranen <pekka.niiranen <at> wlanmail.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>for i, row in enumerate(contents):
>>	row[i] = something
>>	if matcherSTART.search(row):
>>		"Oops! how to advance 'i' and 'row' untill:
>>		if matcherEND.search(row):
>>			continue
> 
> 
> Usually I would do this kind of thing by just keeping the iterator around.  The
> example below has two loops, an outer and an inner, and both iterate over the
> same enumeration.  (I've used 'char ==' instead of regular expressions to make
> the output a little clearer, but hopefully you can do the translation back to
> regexps for your code.)
> 
> 
>>>>contents = list('abcdefg')
>>>>itr = enumerate(contents)
>>>>for i, char in itr:
> 
> ... 	print 'outer', i, char
> ... 	contents[i] = char.upper()
> ... 	if char == 'd':
> ... 		for i, char in itr:
> ... 			print 'inner', i, char
> ... 			if char == 'f':
> ... 				break
> ... 			
Thanks, I decided to catch logical error of not
finding "f" -letter at all with:

 >>> def myiter(contents):
... 	itr = enumerate(contents)
... 	for i, char in itr:
... 		print 'outer', i, char
... 		if char == 'd':
... 			try:
... 				for i, char in itr:
... 					print 'inner', i, char
... 					if char == 'f':
... 						break
... 			except StopIteration:
... 				print "f not found"
...
 >>> contents = list('abcdeg') 				
 >>> myiter(contents)
outer 0 a
outer 1 b
outer 2 c
outer 3 d
inner 4 e
inner 5 g

Not working: Iter() takes care of its own exceptions?
This recurring feeling that writing REALLY correct programs in Python
is not easier than in lower level languages... :(

-pekka-





> outer 0 a
> outer 1 b
> outer 2 c
> outer 3 d
> inner 4 e
> inner 5 f
> outer 6 g
> 
>>>>contents
> 
> ['A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'e', 'f', 'G']
> 
> Steve
> 


From dd55 at cornell.edu  Tue Oct  5 11:06:10 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:06:10 -0400
Subject: Proper use of __file__
Message-ID: <cjud90$lbq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

Would somebody explain how to use __file__? I mean, what information it
carries, and more importantly, when it does and does not exist? A one line
script:

print __file__

will yield the relative path if run from a shell, but will raise NameError
when the script is run interactively from the interpreter. Is this the
intended behavior?

Thanks,
Darren


From matthewcollins at cfl.rr.com  Wed Oct 13 18:41:25 2004
From: matthewcollins at cfl.rr.com (matthew collins)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:41:25 -0400
Subject: installing mysqldb errors
Message-ID: <416DAF15.2030202@cfl.rr.com>

hi all,

trying to install mysqldb 1.0 and receiving a LOT of errors during the 
process.

following the directions of by
export mysqlversion="3.23.58"
export mysqlclient="mysqlclient"
export mysqloptlibs=""
python setup.py build

after the 'python setup.py build' line, i get errors such as

_mysql.c:1375: warning: implicit declaration of function `mysql_insert_id'
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1386: error: syntax error before '*' token
_mysql.c:1388: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype
_mysql.c: In function `_mysql_ConnectionObject_kill':
_mysql.c:1391: error: `args' undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1392: error: `self' undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1394: warning: implicit declaration of function `mysql_kill'


that's just the beginning of the errors. it goes on like that for 
several bash pages and ends with:


_mysql.c:180: warning: `_mysql_server_init__doc__' defined but not used
_mysql.c:191: warning: `_mysql_server_init' defined but not used
_mysql.c:275: warning: `_mysql_server_end__doc__' defined but not used
_mysql.c:281: warning: `_mysql_server_end' defined but not used
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1


so, any suggestions of where i can start looking to fix these errors?

thanks


From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Fri Oct 22 15:36:15 2004
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:36:15 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<1098414642.736428.8940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1gm1x7t.w8k2hqrv300tN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4178ca7c$0$44104$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
	<1gm21ye.rego7yswhcmsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41796141$0$44094$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:1gm21ye.rego7yswhcmsN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> GerritM <gmuller at worldonline.nl> wrote:
<...snip...>
> > design clarity and compactness does help tremendously. I would expect
for
> > these reasons that Python is a big plus during system integration of
large
>
> Not as much as one might hope, in my experience.  Protocol Adaptation
> _would_ help (see PEP 246), but it would need to be widely deployed.
>
I think that I understand how PEP 246 might be an improvement over the
current situation. However, I think that Python 2.3 capabilities already
result in smaller programs and presumably less modules than their equivalent
in Java (or C++). The Objective-C system that we created (360kloc in 1992,
600kloc in 1994) did have a signficant amount of classes that are today
covered by the standard build-ins.I expect that Java and C++ suffer from the
same problem. The packages that I used a long time ago in Java were less
natural than todays Python packages (this might be entirely different today,
I haven't touched Java for centuries, ehh years). My assumption is that
integration problems are at least proportional with the implementation size
(in kloc). So my unproven hypothesis is that since Python programs tend to
be smaller than their Java equivalent that the integration problems are
smaller, purely due to the size.

> > systems. Of course design attention is required to cope with the
> > "non-functional" imapct of Python, such as CPU and memory consumption.
on
> > top of that (run-time) instrumentation is very helpful. Here again the
> > dynamic nature of Python is a big plus.
>
> But the extreme difficulty in keeping track of what amount of memory
> goes where in what cases is a big minus.  I recall similar problems with
> Java, in my limited experience with it, but for Java I see now there are
> commercial tools specifically to hunt down memory problems.  In C++
> there were actual _leaks_ which were a terrible problem for us, but
> again pricey commercial technology came to the rescue.
>
In the same system mentioned above we build our own instrumentation. The
main part was based on insering a small piece of adminstrative code at every
object creation and deletion. This Object Instantation Tracing proved to be
a goldmine of information, including memory use. For instance the memory use
of Lists and Dictionaries could be traced for well defined use cases.
Besides this instrumentation we did the memory management of "bulkdata",
such as images, explicitly. This helps to keep the memory consumption within
specified boundaries and it helps to prevent memory fragmentation problems.
<...snip...>
> But memory is a _big_ problem, in my experience so far, with servers
> meant to run a long time and having very large code bases.  I'm sure
> there IS a commercial niche for a _good_ general purpose Python tool to
> keep track of memory consumption, equivalent to those available for C,
> C++ and Java...
>
The investment in the tools mentioned above were relatively small. However,
this works only if the entire system is based on the same architectural
rules.

The additional challenge of Python relative to Objective-C is its garbage
collection. This provides indeed a poorly predictable memory behavior.

Some of the design aspects mentioned here are described in this chapter of
my PhD thesis:
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/MIconceptualViewPaper.p
df

kind regards, Gerrit




From srijit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 15 03:16:36 2004
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 00:16:36 -0700
Subject: Example Code - Python+PythonNet, Ironpython, Boo
References: <221d8dbe.0409302041.3798265d@posting.google.com>
	<221d8dbe.0410011952.1a45ef12@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0410142316.73bfd738@posting.google.com>

Hello,
Here is the code with modified comments.

Best Regards,
Srijit

Python + PythonNet:

import CLR
import CLR.System
from CLR.System import Console as CLR_Console
import CLR.System.Xml as CLR_Xml

true = 1
false = 0
filename = "test1.xml"
writer = CLR_Xml.XmlTextWriter(filename, None);
#~ Use indenting for readability.
writer.Formatting = CLR_Xml.Formatting.Indented;

writer.WriteComment("XML in Python with PythonNet");

#~ Write an element (this one is the root).
writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");

#~ Write the namespace declaration.
writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", None, "urn:schoolnames");

writer.WriteStartElement("School");

#~ Lookup the prefix and then write the School attribute..
prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
writer.WriteEndAttribute();     

#~ Write the name of the city.
writer.WriteStartElement("city");
writer.WriteString("Madurai");
writer.WriteEndElement();
  
#~ Write number of students.
writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");

#~ Write the style element.
writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
writer.WriteEndElement();

#~ Write the end tag for the school element.
writer.WriteEndElement();

#~ Write the close tag for the root element.
writer.WriteEndElement();
 
#~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
writer.Flush();
writer.Close();

#~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
doc = CLR_Xml.XmlDocument();
#~ Preserve white space for readability.
doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
#~ Load the file
doc.Load(filename);

#~ Write the XML content to the console.
CLR_Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);


Ironpython:

from System import *
from System.Xml import *

true = 1
false = 0
filename = "test1.xml"
writer = XmlTextWriter(filename, None);
#~ Use indenting for readability.
writer.Formatting = Formatting.Indented;

writer.WriteComment("XML in Ironpython");

#~ Write an element (this one is the root).
writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");

#~ Write the namespace declaration.
writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", None, "urn:schoolnames");

writer.WriteStartElement("School");

#~ Lookup the prefix and then write the School attribute.
prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
writer.WriteEndAttribute();     

#~ Write the name of the city.
writer.WriteStartElement("city");
writer.WriteString("Madurai");
writer.WriteEndElement();
  
#~ Write number of students.
writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");

#~ Write the style element.
writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
writer.WriteEndElement();

#~ Write the end tag for the school element.
writer.WriteEndElement();

#~ Write the close tag for the root element.
writer.WriteEndElement();
 
#~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
writer.Flush();
writer.Close();

#~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
doc = XmlDocument();
#~ Preserve white space for readability.
doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
#~ Load the file
doc.Load(filename);

#~ Write the XML content to the console.
Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);


Boo:

import System
import System.Xml from System.Xml

filename = "test1.xml"
writer = XmlTextWriter(filename, null);
// Use indenting for readability.
writer.Formatting = Formatting.Indented;

writer.WriteComment("XML in Boo Language");

// Write an element (this one is the root).
writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");

// Write the namespace declaration.
writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", null, "urn:schoolnames");

writer.WriteStartElement("School");

// Lookup the prefix and then write the School attribute.
prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
writer.WriteEndAttribute();     

// Write the name of the city.
writer.WriteStartElement("city");
writer.WriteString("Madurai");
writer.WriteEndElement();
  
// Write number of students.
writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");

// Write the style element.
writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
writer.WriteEndElement();

// Write the end tag for the school element.
writer.WriteEndElement();

// Write the close tag for the root element.
writer.WriteEndElement();
 
// Write the XML to file and close the writer.
writer.Flush();
writer.Close();

// Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
doc = XmlDocument();
// Preserve white space for readability.
doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
// Load the file
doc.Load(filename);

// Write the XML content to the console.
Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);


srijit at yahoo.com wrote in message news:<221d8dbe.0410011952.1a45ef12 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> There are mistakes in the comments. I shall correct it.
> 
> With regards,
> Srijit
> 
> srijit at yahoo.com wrote in message news:<221d8dbe.0409302041.3798265d at posting.google.com>...
> > Hello,
> > Here is an example code of xml writer in Python+PythonNet, Ironpython
> > and Boo. The codes look very similar.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Srijit
> > 
> > Python + PythonNet:
> > 
> > import CLR
> > import CLR.System
> > from CLR.System import Console as CLR_Console
> > import CLR.System.Xml as CLR_Xml
> > 
> > true = 1
> > false = 0
> > filename = "test1.xml"
> > writer = CLR_Xml.XmlTextWriter(filename, None);
> > #~ Use indenting for readability.
> > writer.Formatting = CLR_Xml.Formatting.Indented;
> > 
> > writer.WriteComment("XML in Boo Language");
> > 
> > #~ Write an element (this one is the root).
> > writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");
> > 
> > #~ Write the namespace declaration.
> > writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", None,
> > "urn:schoolnames");
> > 
> > writer.WriteStartElement("School");
> > 
> > #~ Lookup the prefix and then write the ISBN attribute.
> > prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
> > writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
> > writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
> > writer.WriteEndAttribute();     
> > 
> > #~ Write the title.
> > writer.WriteStartElement("city");
> > writer.WriteString("Madurai");
> > writer.WriteEndElement();
> >   
> > #~ Write the price.
> > writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");
> > 
> > #~ Write the style element.
> > writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
> > writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
> > writer.WriteEndElement();
> > 
> > #~ Write the end tag for the book element.
> > writer.WriteEndElement();
> > 
> > #~ Write the close tag for the root element.
> > writer.WriteEndElement();
> >  
> > #~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
> > writer.Flush();
> > writer.Close();
> > 
> > #~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
> > doc = CLR_Xml.XmlDocument();
> > #~ Preserve white space for readability.
> > doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
> > #~ Load the file
> > doc.Load(filename);
> > 
> > #~ Write the XML content to the console.
> > CLR_Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);
> > 
> > 
> > Ironpython:
> > 
> > from System import *
> > from System.Xml import *
> > 
> > true = 1
> > false = 0
> > filename = "test1.xml"
> > writer = XmlTextWriter(filename, None);
> > #~ Use indenting for readability.
> > writer.Formatting = Formatting.Indented;
> > 
> > writer.WriteComment("XML in Boo Language");
> > 
> > #~ Write an element (this one is the root).
> > writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");
> > 
> > #~ Write the namespace declaration.
> > writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", None,
> > "urn:schoolnames");
> > 
> > writer.WriteStartElement("School");
> > 
> > #~ Lookup the prefix and then write the ISBN attribute.
> > prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
> > writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
> > writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
> > writer.WriteEndAttribute();     
> > 
> > #~ Write the title.
> > writer.WriteStartElement("city");
> > writer.WriteString("Madurai");
> > writer.WriteEndElement();
> >   
> > #~ Write the price.
> > writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");
> > 
> > #~ Write the style element.
> > writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
> > writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
> > writer.WriteEndElement();
> > 
> > #~ Write the end tag for the book element.
> > writer.WriteEndElement();
> > 
> > #~ Write the close tag for the root element.
> > writer.WriteEndElement();
> >  
> > #~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
> > writer.Flush();
> > writer.Close();
> > 
> > #~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
> > doc = XmlDocument();
> > #~ Preserve white space for readability.
> > doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
> > #~ Load the file
> > doc.Load(filename);
> > 
> > #~ Write the XML content to the console.
> > Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);
> > 
> > 
> > Boo:
> > 
> > import System
> > import System.Xml from System.Xml
> > 
> > filename = "test1.xml"
> > writer = XmlTextWriter(filename, null);
> > #~ Use indenting for readability.
> > writer.Formatting = Formatting.Indented;
> > 
> > writer.WriteComment("XML in Boo Language");
> > 
> > #~ Write an element (this one is the root).
> > writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");
> > 
> > #~ Write the namespace declaration.
> > writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", null,
> > "urn:schoolnames");
> > 
> > writer.WriteStartElement("School");
> > 
> > #~ Lookup the prefix and then write the ISBN attribute.
> > prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
> > writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
> > writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
> > writer.WriteEndAttribute();     
> > 
> > #~ Write the title.
> > writer.WriteStartElement("city");
> > writer.WriteString("Madurai");
> > writer.WriteEndElement();
> >   
> > #~ Write the price.
> > writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");
> > 
> > #~ Write the style element.
> > writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
> > writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
> > writer.WriteEndElement();
> > 
> > #~ Write the end tag for the book element.
> > writer.WriteEndElement();
> > 
> > #~ Write the close tag for the root element.
> > writer.WriteEndElement();
> >  
> > #~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
> > writer.Flush();
> > writer.Close();
> > 
> > #~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
> > doc = XmlDocument();
> > #~ Preserve white space for readability.
> > doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
> > #~ Load the file
> > doc.Load(filename);
> > 
> > #~ Write the XML content to the console.
> > Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);


From ktenney at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 09:25:50 2004
From: ktenney at gmail.com (ktenney at gmail.com)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 06:25:50 -0700
Subject: GUI to browse and select images
References: <1096715845.204540.281600@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
	<ucOdndmICKmPePzcRVn-rg@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <1096982750.544401.74040@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>

D,

I am interested in a very simple interface.
A frame filled with thumbnails
of images, allowing selecting multiple items.

I want to implement these thumbnail standards;
http://triq.net/~jens/thumbnail-spec/index.html
The set of thumbs in a frame would come from a list of
thumb image file names. The list might be generated
according to the contents of a directory, might be
from a database query.

The spiffy management and manipulation functionality
would be handled by right-click menus.

It seems the fashionable way to do such
things (Zope3, Chandler, PEAK ...) is
XML style configuration files.

<RightClickChoices>
<menuitem label="Make Master',
description = 'Convert image to tif, load in The Gimp',
implements = ImageTools.MakeMaster />

<menuitem label = 'email image(s)',
description = 'Resize, compress, prompt for address, send',
implements = ImageTools.Relocate.EmailImage />

<menuitem label = 'Manipulate image',
description = 'modify the image(s) in some cool way',
implements = ImageTools.Manipulations />

<submenu>
<menuitem label = 'swap palettes',
description = 'exchange the colors used in 2 images',
implements = ImageTools.Manipulations.SwapPalettes
/>

<menuitem label = 'embed images',
description = 'place the image chosen first
inside the second',
implements = ImageTools.Manipulations.Embed />
</submenu
...
</RightClickChoices>

When a new routine is developed, it is entered into the menu
configuration and becomes available to the app.

The code might look like;

import Chooser, ImageTools
GUI = Chooser.Chooser()

images = getthumbchoices(path.imagefiles)
-or-
images = query('select thumb where mydb.client = webclient')

selectedimages, selectedmenuitem =  GUI(images)
ImageTools.implement(selectedimages, selectedmenuitem)

I expect filesystem navigation would be handy,
that could be handled by a tree widget which
would send lists to the GUI.

I like the idea of the GUI remaining very simple, clean and fast,
with very flexible functionality behind it.

I don't have the time or coding skills to implement it in
anything but high level components..

Thanks,
Kent



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Thu Oct 28 20:25:09 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:25:09 -0400
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41818DE5.2060908@cloudthunder.com>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:

>Ajay <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list at python.org>...
>  
>
>>hi!
>>
>>is there an authoritative source on the performance of scripting languages
>>such as python vs. something like java, c, c++.
>>
>>its for a report, so it would be awesome if i could quote some well-known
>>authority on this.
>>    
>>
>
>Table 25-1, "Relative Execution Time of Programming Languages", on
>page 600 of the book "Code Complete, 2nd Edition" by Steve McConnell
>(a well-known author) has the following statistics, based on
>benchmarks described by the author in chapters 25-26. A larger number
>means the language is slower.
>
>Language       Type of Language     Execution Time Relative to C++
>C++            compiled             1
>  
>
Now since when was C++ as fast as itself?

>Visual Basic   compiled             1
>  
>
C++ and VB are both a 1?  Does this make any sense anyone?

>C#             compiled             1
>  
>
Depends on how you code it.  Though I would say the difference is only 
significant in particular cases, so I agree here.

>Java           byte code            1.5
>  
>
Read my comment below Python, but basically, this should say byte-code 
interpreted w/ Just-In-Time compilation.

>PHP            interpreted          >100
>  
>
>Python         interpreted          >100
>  
>
Is Python not bytecode interpreted?  It has no JIT with the standard 
distro but otherwise, it is no less byte-code than Java.  Misleading.

>I think Python is slower than C++ or Fortran for number-crunching,
>based on some experience with Numeric, but the speed factor is more
>often in the range of 2-10, not >100. McConnell's benchmarks are more
>general. I doubt the assertion that VB is as fast C++. Replacing a VBA
>function in Excel with a C dll can lead to big increase in speed.
>  
>
Indeed, it was my previous understanding that VB depended on runtimes.  
There are a number of internet sources which attribute relative "drag" 
to visual basic code execution.  In other words, no need to doubt the 
assertion, it is plain wrong (or so I believe from what I know).

>Table 4-1 of the same book shows the "ratio of high-level-language
>statements to
>equivalent C code" (higher is better):
>
>Language                Language Relative to C
>C                       1
>Fortran 95              2
>C++                     2.5
>  
>
>Java                    2.5
>Microsoft Visual Basic  4.5
>  
>
Higher-level than Java?  Well, you surely pay for this in language 
features and language design sensibility.

>Perl                    6
>Python                  6
>  
>
Not above Perl?  I shall have to think about this one.

>The ratios depend heavily on the type of program being written. I'll
>believe a VB/Fortran 95 ratio of 2.25 (or much higher) for Windows GUI
>programming but not for a linear algebra library, where Fortran is
>more powerful.
>  
>
Indeed.

>The sources listed for this table are the books
>
>"Estimating Software Costs", by Capers Jones, McGraw-Hill (1998)
>
>"Software Cost Estimation with Cocomo II" by Barry Boehm,
>Addison-Wesley
>(2000)
>
>and the paper (online at
>http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf
>)
>
>"An Empirical Comparison of Seven Programming Languages", by Lutz
>Prechelt,
>IEEE Computer, October 2000, 23-29.
>  
>



From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Oct 25 10:51:47 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:51:47 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA@giganews.com>

kartik wrote:

> there seems to be a serious problem with allowing numbers to grow in a
> nearly unbounded manner, as int/long unification does: it hides bugs.

No it does not.

Just because a runaway program stops sooner by hitting the
integer limit it does not mean that this having this limit
is a validation method.

 > i feel this is not so important as the quality
 > of code a programmer writes

A code that relies on hitting the integer limit
is anything but high quality.

If you are worried about some numbers growing too much, then
check them yourself, you'll get much better results that way.

Istvan.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct  9 15:18:09 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 12:18:09 -0700
Subject: Algorithm used by keyword 'in'
In-Reply-To: <41683434.5080804@kzoo.edu>
References: <lTV9d.145034$Kt5.13032@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<41683434.5080804@kzoo.edu>
Message-ID: <20041009120652.EDB0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Is python smart enough to do say a binary search if you sort the list 
> right before using in?

No, use the bisect module if you want to binary search.  Knowing that a
sequence is sorted requires keeping an 'is_sorted' boolean attached to
the object (which may end up increasing the space used by each list).

It is also ambiguous to say that a list is "sorted".  Even if the
following passes without exception:

for i in xrange(len(lst)-1):
    assert lst[i] < lst[i+1]

That does not mean that there isn't an ambiguous ordering that would
make binary search and/or list.sort() incorrect:
>>> 'b' < (0,)
True
>>> (0,) < u'a'
True
>>> u'a' < 'b'
True

One should need to be explicit when they want to binary search, because
it may not be correct in some cases.

"In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess."


 - Josiah



From pcm at cpugrid.net  Tue Oct  5 00:47:00 2004
From: pcm at cpugrid.net (P.M.)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 21:47:00 -0700
Subject: Parallelization on multi-CPU hardware?
Message-ID: <6db3f637.0410042047.b8d07e9@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm working on an C++/embedded-Python application that will run on
multi-CPU hardware and I need to efficiently distribute the execution
of multiple scripts across the CPUs.  I'm embedding Python using the
Boost Python library.

My question is, how can I best parallelize the running of separate
autonomous Python scripts within this app?  Can I run multiple
interpreters in separate threads within a single process?  In past
newsgroup messages I've seen advice that the only way to get
scalability, due to the GIL, is to use an IPC mechanism between
multiple distinct processes running seperate interpreters.  Is this
still true or are there better ways to accomplish this?

Thanks
Peter


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Oct 27 13:25:44 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:25:44 -0400
Subject: Please help - get average
References: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19CC4@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>
Message-ID: <clolmh$e8b$1@sea.gmane.org>

Message
"Borman, Linda E" <LBorman at sjm.com> wrote in message 
news:743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19CC4 at usmtml01.ad.sjm.com...

Please post using plain ascii text instead of html.  With the latter, it is 
difficult to insert comments that look like comment where they belong.

# using for loop
number = 10
while number !=0 :
    number = input("Enter a number: ")

Your first error is here: you are using 'number' as both a loop control 
variable and a data input variable.  So the loop will continue until 
someone enters a 0.
Also, never use input in a program others will use until you understand why 
it is dangerous.  So, replace above with something like

   n = int(raw_input('Enter an integer: '))

Terry J. Reedy





From rhoder at worldpath.net  Sat Oct  9 14:13:37 2004
From: rhoder at worldpath.net (Derek Rhodes)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 18:13:37 GMT
Subject: Algorithm used by keyword 'in'
References: <lYS9d.144800$Kt5.79976@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.30.10.505058@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <lTV9d.145034$Kt5.13032@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

> In addition to John Roth's post, see the bottom of
> http://docs.python.org/ref/sequence-types.html , which will help you
> create your own algorithms for your own classes, if you like.

Thanks for quick response guys.

-Derek. 




From exarkun at divmod.com  Mon Oct 11 21:43:17 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:43:17 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <1pDad.22529$5O5.5713@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <20041012014317.19317.58904430.divmod.quotient.1325@ohm>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:01:33 GMT, "Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>Luis P Caamano:
> 
> > Therefore, fixing the GIL was always in competition with existing code
> > and libraries, and it always lost because it was (and still is)
> > considered "not worth the effort."
> 
>    Greg Stein implemented a "free-threaded" version of Python in 1996 and
> had another look in 2000.
> 
> http://python.tpnet.pl/contrib-09-Dec-1999/System/threading.README
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-April/003605.html
> 
>     So, it is not the initial implementation of a GIL-free Python that is
> the stumbling block but the maintenance of the code. The poor performance of
> free-threaded Python contributed to the lack of interest.

  "existing code" refers only partially to the current CPython implementation.  Rather more importantly, it refers to the large number of third party extension modules with which it is desired to retain compatibility.

  Recompiling CPython isn't a big deal.  Recompiling, possibly after partially rewriting, N other packages is.

  Jp


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 25 22:48:03 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:48:03 -0500
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <Michael.J.Fromberger-54474F.18411025102004@localhost>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-54474F.18411025102004@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041026024802.GA3581@unpythonic.net>

Here's a bug that passes silently because ints are not limited in range
from 1 to 100:
    ...

OK, just joking.  I couldn't think of one.

Jeff
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From mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 23 18:43:56 2004
From: mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (StvB)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:43:56 GMT
Subject: Anyone seen this app
Message-ID: <M8Bed.17600$nj.12728@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

Can someone help me locate an open source product that I saw ?  -- written 
with wxPython I think.

This is driving me nuts, I'm not sure if I saw a link to it from Planet 
Python, or Python City, or what

What it is:  A pretty ambitious and large code depository where you store 
code you personally re-use and don't want to waste time writing over and 
over.
 I really thought I set a bookmark to it's project page, but I guess I 
didn't.

If you are familiar with it, please mention it.  I don't see mention of it 
in python.announce.

Steve 




From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Oct 12 16:33:54 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:33:54 +0200
Subject: Snakelets and WSGI
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4769.1097609657.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4769.1097609657.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416c3fb2$0$566$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Pardon my ignorance, but would it be feasible for a server such
as Snakelets to implement both the WSGI API, *and* the existing
'native' API?
If I want this, and I understand WSGI correctly, this would
require something that the WSGI spec calls "WSGI-Middleware".
Right?

--Irmen


From guyon.moree at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 03:56:33 2004
From: guyon.moree at gmail.com (guyon.moree at gmail.com)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 00:56:33 -0700
Subject: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1097135793.050560.24750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Brian van den Broek wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've just a few hours looking via google, http://c2.com/cgi/wiki, and

> the python.org wiki, but haven't had luck, so it's time to ask:
>
> I'm looking for a stand alone Python wiki engine that does not
require a
> web server such as Apache or MS IIS. I have found such beasts in
other
> languages (e.g. <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EddiesWiki> in C++, and a
couple
> in Ruby), but none written in Python. A pointer to any that I've
missed
> would be most appreciated.
>
> To give some idea of my requirements: Python is the only programming
> language that I know anything to speak of, and my skills are modest.
> (Python is a thesis procrastination projec and I've done no web
> programming to date.) I have an itch in the PIM domain, and I am
wanting
> to find a project as a basis to build upon that is 1) appropriate in
> scope/complexity for a relative newcomer and 2) would enable me to
have
> a personal wiki (not exposed to the web). I am running WindowsMe, and

> Python 2.3.4. I don't mind if I have to get some extra packages, but
I
> definitely don't want to have to come to terms with something like
Zope.
> (One day, perhaps, but not too soon.)
>
> If there were one that used ReStructuredText for markup, that would
be
> great. But at this point, I think I'd be better off not restricting
the 
> pool :-)
> 
> Thanks for any pointers. Best,
> 
> Brian vdB



From gs.lists at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 04:26:05 2004
From: gs.lists at gmail.com (gs)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 01:26:05 -0700
Subject: Establishing a p2p connection in python
Message-ID: <a50cee44.0410080026.30cf04f0@posting.google.com>

Hi!

This is my first time posting to a newsgroup so please be gentle to me
:)

Introduction to my problem:

I'm studying at the university and a lot of friends and I use MSN to
communicate. The problem is that MSN file sending/receiving
capabilities are terribly slow and has no resume option. We're also on
different subnets and can not access eachoters computers through smb
shares, nor can we have local ftp-servers.

My programming background:

I've been taking a few classes in JAVA, enough to get familiar with
sockets, threads and the most common sorting algortithms and
datastructures (binary trees, stacks etc). I'm also very comfortable
programming PHP on a webdeveloper basis.
I recently started out with Python and i immediatly fell in love with
it, and now I want to "master" it! :) Alas, my problem is also of
educational nature.

Setup:
We're about 30 friends who want the ability to share files.
We're spread out on about 3 different translated external IPs.
I have access to a public IP that has the ability to run python (but
not enough bandwith nor space to host an FTP).
I have limited programming experience.

Proposed solution:
I thought that one approach could be to write a small server for my
public server with the sole purpose of keeping track of connected
users and establishing p2p connections on demand.

Problems:
1) I've written a threaded server that stores information about
connected servers in a "container class". This class holds information
about username, a unique ID, the connecting adress and the actual
socket. I have not been able to find any information online on how i
could go about to connect two sockets. It would seem like the socket
is already "occupied" since it is connected to the server. Could one
duplicate, or otherwise get a dedicated socket for sending binary
data, to one connected socket from another? A few pointers and/or tips
would be greatly appreciated!

2) I've also failed to find python specific information on how abouts
one would do file resuming. I would think that you, somehow, use
md5-checksums to check file status and somehow skip the first part of
the datastream. Also, pointers and maybe an explanation in (short)
pseudo-code would be much appreciated.

3) Is this too big of a project for a novice programmer such as
myself? I do want to go through with this since it's a genuine
problem, but i do not know if i'm ready. I'm not a "quitter" per say,
but i'm afraid doing something TOO advanced in the beginning might be
overwhelming :)

Thanks for reading,
gs


From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Oct  5 12:43:59 2004
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:43:59 +0200
Subject: How can I make an existing object read-only?
In-Reply-To: <Xns95799F651665Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Xns95799F651665Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <4162cf4f$0$37789$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> An alternative is just to pass a copy of the object. That way the recipient 
> can do what they like with it, but the calling code won't see any changes.

Agreed, but then any attempts to change the attributes will go
unnoticed. I wanted a solution that would catch these attempts
and trow an exception (perhaps this wasn't clear enough in
my original question).

Thanks anyway.

--Irmen


From teak at linuxmail.org  Thu Oct 28 20:27:52 2004
From: teak at linuxmail.org (teak)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 17:27:52 -0700
Subject: Grail
Message-ID: <49eaf5fc.0410281627.44508abe@posting.google.com>

where can somone download a Grail browser for linux? Does anyone have a link?

Thanks
Tino


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Mon Oct 25 14:56:27 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 11:56:27 -0700
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Qd6dnUTV2ZBkBefcRVn-pg@giganews.com>
	<1gm4rq5.1c25kfc12o6jivN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417cb790$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0410251056.578f289e@posting.google.com>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote in message news:<417cb790$0$226$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk>...
> 
> The main problem with most templating systems is not only that they mix 
> markup and code, but also that markup reuse is allmost impossible.

[Just to add my 2c...]

These criticisms may well be true of macro-style templating systems,
but neither should be an issue for object model-based systems
(Nevow.Renderer, PyMeld, HTMLTemplate) that are properly designed.
Markup is used to construct the template object model; the code to
manipulate that model is supplied separately. And being constructed of
objects means almost by definition that the template will be reusable
in whole or in part.


> An illustrative example is a "box". [...]
> If you want to reuse this in most teplate systems, you need to do it in 
> the programming language. Eg. in Python like::
> 
> 
> def box(title, content):
>      return """<div class="box">
>      <h5>%s</h5>
>      %s
>      </div>""" % (title, content)

Simple solution: any templating system that makes you write such
nonsense automatically warrants a trip to the bit-bucket.:p Honestly,
I wouldn't waste time pondering it. It's not like these problems
haven't already been solved.


> Zope Page Templates has a far better approach to this imho. Where you 
> define reusable markup in a macro.

Better than nothing perhaps, but having to design, implement and use a
whole new macro system just to solve one particular reuse problem is a
rather expensive solution. (e.g. See GreenSpun's Tenth Rule, and take
a lesson from Lisp which solved these problems fifty years ago.) In an
object-based templating system, reusing one chunk of template in
another would take something like:

template2['box'] = template1['box']

If you also want to retain the content from template2's original 'box'
object as the ZPT macro example does, you can write yourself a
five-line generic 'merge(template1, template2, nodename)' function
that does this automatically and stick it in a reusable support
library somewhere. And all in a templating system that can be
implemented in about 350LOC with a full API shorter than this post. If
there's a benchmark for extensibility and reuse in templating systems,
that's gotta be pretty close. :)

Cheers


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 20 11:25:34 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:25:34 -0400
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
 exception
In-Reply-To: <cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
	<cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <4176836E.4000507@holdenweb.com>

Stefan Behnel wrote:

> Paul Clinch schrieb:
> 
>> logging.fatal( 'Test is %(test)s' % values)
>> is fine. An why shouldn't you use it in this fashion?
> 
> 
> I thought a logging API was usually trying to do costly things only when 
> it knows it has to. You /could/ do that, but since it doesn't come for 
> free - why not first do the check if you will actually log this message?
> 
> Ok, I know there's an overhead anyway: function calls, object creation, 
> etc. But copying strings and creating string representations of objects 
> can be /very/ expensive and should only be done if the log message is 
> definitely written.
> 
Well that's as may be, but is the logging function going to be taking up 
much of your program's run time? I'd suspect not. Premature 
optimisation, etc., etc.

> I'd simply say that constructing a log message from arguments is such a 
> common thing that it is worth providing efficient API support for it. 
> And I think it's truely counter-pythonic to prevent the usage of 
> dictionaries at this point.
> 
Your original message observed that LogRecord performs

msg = msg % self.args

and you said "this should work"; that was where your mistake lay. The 
call was constructed using

apply(root.log, (level, msg)+args, kwargs)

and I presume that args was actually obtained from a formal parameter 
*args (allowing the functiopn call to aggregate all non-keyword 
arguments). Thus for your call to work the usage in LogRecord would have 
had to be

msg = msg % self.args[0]

The point of the interface currently used is that it allows you to pass 
a variable number of arguments for substitution into the message when 
it's actually built. The *args construct neatly aggregates them into a 
tuple. So when the substituion was performed inside LogRecord you were 
actually providing a tuple whose single element was a dictionary, an 
attempt doomed to failure.

A possible enhancement which might meet your arguments would allow the 
user to provide EITHER a tuple of arguments OR a set of keyword 
arguments. LogRecord could then say:

if args:
	msg = msg % args
else:
	msg = msg % kwargs

and you would then be able to make a call like

logging.log(logging.FATAL, 'Test is %(test)s', **values)

But with the code you presented, it's no use bleating that "values *is* 
a mapping". While this is certainly true, values was unfortunately just 
the only element in the args tuple, and it's the args tuple that's 
currently used for substituion. I presume the patch you sent Vijay will 
do something similar?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From tiarno at sas.com  Thu Oct 21 11:48:42 2004
From: tiarno at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:48:42 -0400
Subject: htmldata and python 2.2
Message-ID: <cl8lor$75j$1@license1.unx.sas.com>

I'm trying to get htmldata.py (written with Python 2.3 in mind) to work with
Python 2.2.  Thanks much to Paul Clinch for showing me how to convert
for i, text in enumerate(L)
to
for i, text in zip(range(len(L)),L)

I have one more glitch in getting htmldata.py to work in Python2.2:
Can someone show me how to recode this without the finditer?

L = list(re.finditer(r'url\s*\(([^\r\n\("]*?)\)|' +
                         r'url\s*\(\s*"([^\r\n]*?)"\s*\)', doc))

 The doc says re.finditer is available in 2.2, but I'm guessing it must be
in a minor version update (e.g., 2.2.3). Anyway, I'm getting this error in
the Traceback:

 L = list(re.finditer(r'url\s*\(([^\r\n\("]*?)\)|' +
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'finditer'

thanks,
--Tim Arnold

p.s. htmldata.py is public domain code to manipulate
HTML or XHTML documents from Connelly Barnes.
(http://oregonstate.edu/~barnesc/htmldata/)




From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Thu Oct 14 07:03:36 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:03:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Psycopg and queries with UTF-8 data
References: <ckliod$8ot$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl>
Message-ID: <cklme8$m90$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Alban Hertroys <alban at magproductions.nl> pisze:

> I have a query that inserts data originating from an utf-8 encoded XML 
> file. And guess what, it contains utf-8 encoded characters...
> Now my problem is that psycopg will only accept queries of type str, so 
> how do I get my utf-8 encoded data into the DB?
> 
> I can't do query.encode('ascii'), that would be similar to:
> >>> x = u'\xc8'
> >>> print x.encode('ascii')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xc8' in 
> position 0: ordinal not in range(128)

Did you try x.encode('utf-8')?

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Sun Oct 10 18:09:03 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 18:09:03 -0400
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <umzyukyyo.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:

> While I agree with your points, they're immaterial to the
> argument I was making.  The poster to which I responded was
> arguing that "xor" didn't make sense because having it coerce
> it's arguments to booleans was "wrong".

Well, actually I said:

"Logical operators work that way but not numerics ..."

so I'm not arguing against a logical "xor" working that way, but not
the existing xor (^) operation in Python, which is bitwise.

-- David


From gcash at cfl.rr.com  Thu Oct 14 23:26:54 2004
From: gcash at cfl.rr.com (gcash)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:26:54 GMT
Subject: fix for Jython bug related to inaccessable constructors
Message-ID: <pt3kmzkl.fsf@cfl.rr.com>

I just managed to track down and fix a bug in the jython compiler. I don't
know if this is the right place to post it and call attention to it.

I'm writing a motorcycle transmission simulation in Java3D and Jython, which
is on the web at
<http://home.cfl.rr.com/genecash/transmission_applet/transmission_applet.html>
if anyone's interested.

At the moment, I was adding the star cam to the end of the shift drum, and the
associated cam follower.

OK, the shift drum is animated using a "RotationInterpolator" object, so I
decided to subclass this object as a "StarInterpolator" and add the little bit
of code to update the follower position every frame.

Well, so far, so good. It took me a day or so until I had it done. I was
testing it with the command line interpreter and it was all peachy. Then I
tried to compile it so I could put it up on the web, and it pukes up "cannot
resolve symbol" errors on the new subclass.

Ok, so the "RotationInterpolator" constructor has the following signature:
public RotationInterpolator(Alpha, TransformGroup);
public RotationInterpolator(Alpha, TransformGroup, Transform3D, float, float);

Well for some reason, jythonc is emitting code to handle the no-argument
RotationInterpolator() as well, and of course this chokes because there is no
such thing.

According to the Sun Java3D documentation, that is. Ahem. According to the
javap output, there *IS* a RotationInterpolator() constructor, but it's only
package accessable.  OK, so that means I can't see it, but it's still in the
signature so jythonc is trying to deal with it.

In the addConstructors function in $JYTHON_HOME/Tools/jythonc/proxies.py, it
goes through the constructors and creates a list for each one. There's a
variable called "access" which is 0 if you can't see the constructor.

So this is the patch:

      def addConstructors(self, c):
          for constructor in c.getDeclaredConstructors():
              access = constructor.modifiers
              if isPrivate(access):
                  continue
              if isNative(access):
                  access = access & ~NATIVE
              if isProtected(access):
                  access = access & ~PROTECTED | PUBLIC
+             if not access:
+                 continue
              parameters = tuple(constructor.parameterTypes)
              throws = constructor.exceptionTypes
              self.jconstructors.append( (access, parameters, throws) )

-gc

-- 
Thu 14-Oct-2004: 26 days (3 weeks, 5 days) until the release of HALO 2


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 12:36:22 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:36:22 -0600
Subject: DISLIN or gnuplot.py
References: <pan.2004.10.10.20.50.39.807116@pacbell.net>
	<mailman.4703.1097503256.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.11.16.19.41.630762@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <ckecq6$e74$1@sea.gmane.org>

Richard wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:12:16 -0500, John Hunter wrote:
> 
>>>>>>> "Richard" == Richard  <none at pacbell.net> writes:
>> 
>>     Richard> I am going to need to plot some data and formula results
>>     Richard> from Python.
>> 
>> I suggest looking at matplotlib.  Although it is not as mature as
>> DISLIN and gnuplot, it is progressing rapidly and supports most 2D
>> plotting needs, with the remaining gaps closing quickly (see
>> http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html for a quick
>> snapshot of capabilities).
>> 
>> 
>> http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net
>> 
>> 
>> JDH
> 
> Thank you for the reply.
> 
> It looks like matplotlib will handle my immediate plotting from
> Python needs.
> 
> The 'goals' page on the matplotlib web site state
> that there has been some 'proof-of-concept' work completed on
> 3-d visualization.  Any estimate on when there might be some
> 3-d plotting support?

See http://mayavi.sourceforge.net

In my view, matplotlib for 2d and mayavi for 3d plotting and complex data
visualization problems, make a very powerful combination for scientific
computing work.

Best,

f



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 20 18:06:40 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:06:40 -0400
Subject: Setting Environment Variables
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5240.1098302851.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5240.1098302851.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl6ngl$mp2$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Greg Lindstrom wrote:
> I am running python 2.3. on an HP-9000 box running Unix and have a POSIX
> script that sets up my production environment.  I would like to run the
> script from inside a python routine and pick up the environment variables
> but am having trouble getting it done.  Suppose the script is called
> setprod.  How can I call this from inside a python script then pick up the
> env's later in my program?  I've tried os.system ('setprod') and
> os.system('. setprod'), but neither seemed to work.

I'm not sure of the solution (there are several alternatives)
but the problem is that os.system() creates a new shell (or
subshell, if you will) that is exited when the script completes.
Obviously that means any changes made to the subshell's environment
will not appear in the environment of the process running the
Python script.

The answer depends on what you are trying to accomplish.  Do
you need the environment variables to be used only in the Python
script, or are you trying to affect the environment even after
the Python script has completed?

(When people try to do this, it's sort of like trying to affect
the variables in the calling routine from inside a subroutine.
Although that's not usually a good idea, there are (ugly) ways
to work around the roadblocks, such as global variables...
in such a case, and perhaps yours, there may be other ways of
looking at the problem that can inspire more elegant solutions.)

-Peter


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Oct 14 08:53:45 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:53:45 +0200
Subject: read a files particular line
In-Reply-To: <cklgrm$6g3$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <cklgrm$6g3$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20041014125344.GL2544@zoran.com>

Hello Frank,

> Hi,
> does anybody have an idea how to read a particular line of a file like awk's
> awk '{if( NR==12) print $0}' filename (reads lineno 12 of filename)
Check the documentation about the "linecache".

HTH.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at gmail.com>
http://tebeka.spymac.net
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 09:10:20 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:10:20 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <cklcb3$k57$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4834.1097669737.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cklcb3$k57$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904101406101db6eff1@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:11:37 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> 
> > if not isinstance(value, self.mytype):
> >     # if it's a string, tries to convert to the correct
> >     # target type (this is needed because most things read
> >     # from files will be strings anyway)
> >     if isinstance(value, StringType):
> >         value = self.mytype(value)
> 
> I haven't checked if this is relevant in the context, but implicit
> conversion from string is usually a bad thing. E. g.:
> 
> >>> bool("False"), bool("0")
> (True, True)

I had to do it to be able to read values written in configuration
files. When I write the attributes to the text file, I lose the type
information, and all that I have when I re-read them is the string
representation. In this case, the best that I can do is to try to
force the conversion from the string to the correct type.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Oct 22 14:33:32 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:33:32 GMT
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
	exception
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
	<cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<2e37dc1.0410201242.9bca574@posting.google.com>
	<ROXdd.8976$SW3.2862@fed1read01>
	<2e37dc1.0410212312.4268147d@posting.google.com>
	<PA6ed.16837$jd.15866@lakeread04>
Message-ID: <41794fe3.493395655@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:52:31 -0400, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>Vinay Sajip wrote:
>
>> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<ROXdd.8976$SW3.2862 at fed1read01>...
>> 
>>>But how much simpler
>>>
>>>logging.want("%(string)s and the %(number)d dwarves",
>>>                 string="Snow White", number=7)
>>>
>> 
>> 
>> logging.want? ;-)
>> 
>Wishful thinking :-)
>
>> Well, it was a trivial example. In real use cases, the dict would be a
>> variable rather than a literal. The problem with using kwargs is that
>> it could interfere with keyword arguments passed to the logging method
>> (currently only exc_info, but there may be others in future).
>> 
>
>Indeed, my ignorance of the current API misled me. But *otherwise* it 
>would have been a good idea, no?

Jumping into unknown wider context here, but (as you know, I'm sure)
as of recent versions you can easily pass a dict arg using keywords:

 >>> def foo(*args,**kw): print args, kw
 ...
 >>> foo('here:', dict(string="Snow White", number=7),'<-is a dict', this='is a kwarg')
 ('here:', {'number': 7, 'string': 'Snow White'}, '<-is a dict') {'this': 'is a kwarg'}
 ^__args tuple_________________________________________________^ ^___kw arg___________^

Less confusing perhaps, the dict arg isolated:

  >>> dict(string="Snow White", number=7)
  {'number': 7, 'string': 'Snow White'}

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Mon Oct 11 09:08:16 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:08:16 +0100
Subject: Regular expression for matching IPA characters in Unicode?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4697.1097497253.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4697.1097497253.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cke0k6$bli$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Mickel Gr?nroos wrote:

> Which is the best way of checking that a given unicode string only 
> contains IPA characters, e.g. characters in the range \u0250-\u02AF?

Well, I'll give you an example that only includes characters in the 
range [\u0250, \u02AF] but those are just the IPA *extensions.* You also 
need to include basic latin and greek characters from other blocks.

See: http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0250.pdf

And why do you want to do this anyway?

This example uses the itertools example all() which tells you whether a 
predicate is true for every item in an iterable. The predicate here is 
whether the item is contained in IPA_CHARS, which you can expand...

=====

import itertools
from sets import Set # set() is a built-in in 2.4

IPA_CHARS = Set(map(unichr, xrange(0x250, 0x2b0)))

def all(seq, pred=bool):
     # http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/itertools-example.html
     "Returns True if pred(x) is True for every element in the iterable"
     return False not in itertools.imap(pred, seq)

def is_ipa(iterable):
     return all(iterable, IPA_CHARS.__contains__)

print is_ipa(u"aeiou") # this is valid IPA, but not in the extensions block
print is_ipa(u"\u0260\u02af") # valid IPA in the extensions block

====output===

False
True
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From jarausch at skynet.be  Tue Oct 12 10:41:15 2004
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:41:15 +0200
Subject: simple webserver embedded app recommendations
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4752.1097590300.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4752.1097590300.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416BED0B.3010803@skynet.be>

Neal D. Becker wrote:
> I'm looking for recommendations for something to base a simple web serving
> app on.  I want to make a simple user interface to do control/monitoring of
> for an embedded application.  I'm looking for a builtin python-based
> webserver, and a minimal learning curve.  Any suggestions?
> 
Have a look at  CherryPy (currently being rewritten for version 2), 
Karrigell and Snakelets  (all on sourceforge, I think)

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct  9 13:53:44 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 10:53:44 -0700
Subject: (solved)  smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <017601c4ae27$72317d20$ccbefea9@twilliams>
References: <20041009095523.EDA7.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<017601c4ae27$72317d20$ccbefea9@twilliams>
Message-ID: <20041009104235.EDAD.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> >In fact, if I were to make one suggestion to Tim, it
> >would be to switch from his custom version of smtplib to the version in
> >CVS, then do anything to smtplib.stderr that he wants.
> 
> Thanks,   I will give that a go now :-)
> 
> Will each thread's smtplib.stderr be isolated from instances(?)   in other
> threads?

The class I gave you earlier, you can make the following assignment
/once/:
  smtplib.stderr = multi_thread_output()

Then you can spawn as many threads as your heart desires, and it will
send each individual thread's output to its own little buffer.

When the thread disappears, its output becomes available via
obj.get_ready()

If you have a 'controlling thread' that can periodically poll this, then
the problem is basically solved.  It would also be reasonable to have each
of your SMTP threads print its output when it is done.  Below is a
variant that works well for that, and a bit of controlling code.

 - Josiah


def smtp_thread():
    #create SMTP instance
    #set debug level
    #connect
    #handle all your smtp commands
    #disconnect
    print smtplib.stderr.get_mine()


class multi_thread_output:
    def __init__(self):
        self.lock = threading.Lock()
        self.ios = {}
    def write(self, data):
        thread = threading.currentThread().getName()
        try:
            self.lock.acquire()
            if thread in self.ios:
                self.ios[thread].write(data)
            else:
                t = self.ios[thread] = StringIO()
                t.write(data)
        finally:
            self.lock.release()
    def get_ready(self):
        names = {}
        for th in threading.enumerate():
            names[th.getName()] = None
        try:
            self.lock.acquire()
            for name in self.ios:
                if name not in names:
                    r = self.ios.pop(name)
                    r.seek(0)
                    return r
        finally:
            self.lock.release()
    def get_mine(self):
        name = threading.currentThread().getName()
        try:
            self.lock.acquire()
            if name in self.ios:
                r = self.ios.pop(name)
                r.seek(0)
                return r
            return ''
        finally:
            self.lock.release()



From noone at here.com  Sun Oct  3 13:55:24 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 18:55:24 +0100
Subject: append to  items  depending on prior item
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjp8of$b9i$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cjpeah$vb9$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi Peter,

Thankyou, it looks perfect. At the risk of sounding dumb, however, what do I
print to get your output?

 items = "item1 item4 item2 item1".split()
[i + random.choice(dict(item1="abc", item2="def").get(p, [""]))
 for (p,i) in zip(items[-1:]+items[:-1], items)]
print ???

Thanks,

M




From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Oct 13 02:42:01 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:42:01 -0700
Subject: How to catch exceptions elegantly in this situation?
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F72@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Saqib Ali wrote:
> The real issue is that I am doing some screen-scraping from on-line
> white pages (residential telephone directory).
> 
> I have defined a bunch of regular expressions and myFunc() populates a
> dictionary corresponding to each result from the white pages.
> 
> So essentially myDict corresponds to a single record found. See below
> 
> myDict["fullName"] = fullNameRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
> myDict["telNum"] = telNumRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
> myDict["streetAddr"] = streetAddrRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
> myDict["city"] = cityRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
> myDict["state"] = stateRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
> myDict["zip"] = zipRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
> 
> 
> Sometimes one or more of these regexps fails to match. In which Case
> an exception will be raised. I want to catch the exception, print out
> a message..... but then keep on going to the next assignment
> statement.
> 
> How can I do that without wrapping each assignment in its own
> try/except block??

If you're looking to save typing or space or something:

htmlText = file.open(filename).read()

def match_regex(regex):
    try:
        return regex.match(htmlText)[0]
    except Exception:
        logger.exception()
        return ""

myDict["fullName"] = match_regex(fullNameRegExp)
myDict["telNum"] = match_regex(telNumRegExp)
myDict["streetAddr"] = match_regex(streetAddrRegExp)
myDict["city"] = match_regex(cityRegExp)
myDict["state"] = match_regex(stateRegExp)
myDict["zip"] = match_regex(zipRegExp)

But then, that's still ugly. Rather than naming each regex as above,
consider putting them into a dict:

regexes = {"fullName": re.compile(...),
           "telNum": re.compile(...),
           ...
           }

Fill in the ... as appropriate. Then you can write the far cleaner
snippet:

for key, regex in regexes.iteritems():
    try:
        myDict[key] = regex.match(htmlText)[0]
    except Exception:
        logger.exception()
        myDict[key] = ""    # or some other default value



If you're looking to save execution speed or some other concern... I
doubt you'll find a solution.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From alban at magproductions.nl  Thu Oct 14 07:24:00 2004
From: alban at magproductions.nl (Alban Hertroys)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:24:00 +0200
Subject: Psycopg and queries with UTF-8 data
In-Reply-To: <cklm2q$gc0$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <ckliod$8ot$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl>
	<cklm2q$gc0$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <416E61D0.5050503@magproductions.nl>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Alban Hertroys wrote:
>>I have a query that inserts data originating from an utf-8 encoded XML
>>file. And guess what, it contains utf-8 encoded characters...
>>Now my problem is that psycopg will only accept queries of type str, so
>>how do I get my utf-8 encoded data into the DB?
> 
> 
> This sounds like the usual unicode/utf-8 confusion: unicode is an abstract
> specification of characters, utf-8 as well as latin1 and ascii are
> encodings of that specification that allow for certain characters to be
> used - namely, ascii for only well-known first 127, latin1 for some major
> european languages, and utf-8 defines escapes for all possible characters
> defined in unicode - with the result that some of the characters aren't one
> byte per character anymore.

Ah, I see now. I _thought_ it was odd that unicode('string') resulted in 
a unicode object and 'string'.encode('utf-8') did not. I understand now 
that 'unicode' is data that is actual unicode data, while 'utf-8' 
_encoded_ data is really a string, but with special characters rewritten 
to specify utf-8 escape sequences instead of the actual unicode bytes.

Thanks for clearing out my confusion.

> Please do read a tutorial on unicode and python - there are several good
> ones out there, use google to your advantage.

I did, though some time ago. Apparently I missed the point being made 
(or forgot about it).

> Confusion again - please repeat: 
> 
> unicode is not utf-8!!!
> unicode is not utf-8!!!
> unicode is not utf-8!!!
> unicode is not utf-8!!!

while confused():
	print "unicode is not utf-8!!!"

> Do encode the unicode object in utf-8, and pass that to the psycopg. If you
> set client_encoding to latin1, you have to encode unicod to that.

I suppose I won't notice much of that until I read from the DB (which is 
done in PHP mostly), as the data inserted is already an ascii string by 
itself (with escaped utf-8 characters, though). I'll worry about that 
later ;)

Many thanks,
Alban.


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct  1 10:42:58 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 01 Oct 2004 14:42:58 GMT
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<MJednUj3F8J40MDcRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4176.1096636511.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <415d6cf2$0$6027$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-01, Neil Benn <benn at cenix-bioscience.com> wrote:

> IMHO, I think that Python is not a suitable piece of software
> for industrial control as it has poor support for bytes (a
> string shouldn't be used to store bytes!)

It's incovenient, but it works.  I often end up converting the
string representation to/from a list of integers.

> and also bit twiddling is difficult (people who ask about his
> on the Python newsgroup are usually shouted at).

Bit twiddling didn't used to be difficult, but it's getting
more so. :(  Programs that used to be fine are now throwing
warnings about shift operations, hex constants, and things like
that.  

A while back, somebody wrote a pure-python fixed-length integer
class that looked like it would be handy. A C implimentation of
byte arrays would be very handy, since then you wouldn't have
to convert back and forth between strings and lists of
integers.

The combination of a C-language byte-array and C-language
fixed-length integer operations would kill.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I feel partially
                                  at               hydrogenated!
                               visi.com            


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Oct 13 08:08:05 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:08:05 +0200
Subject: convert string to list
References: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
Message-ID: <ckj5r4$tng$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Jochen Hub wrote:

> 
> I need this since I would like to give a list as an argument to my
> Python script from the bash:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> import sys
> argument1 = sys.argv[1]
> thelist = ???(argument1)
> 
> and then call the script from the bash like this
> 
> thescript.py ["A","B","C"]

Why don't you give the args standalone

thescript.py "A" "B" "C"

 and do this:

thelist = sys.argv[1:]



-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Oct  5 14:40:33 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 14:40:33 -0400
Subject: Proper use of __file__
References: <cjud90$lbq$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<10m5hc4mn8j3l04@corp.supernews.com>
	<cjujh9$he6$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <uvfdp2ela.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <10m5hc4mn8j3l04 at corp.supernews.com>,
> Jeffrey Froman  <jeffrey at fro.man> wrote:
> >
> >__file__ is the name of the file in which the statement containing
> >"__file__" appears. If your file foo.py reads:
> >
> >print __file__
> >
> >You can run "import foo" from the interpreter, and it will print "foo.py",
> >just like if you ran "python foo.py". But if you run "print __file__" in
> >the interpreter directly, NameError is raised because the call is not being
> >made from any file, so __file__ is undefined.
> 
> One gotcha: in Python 2.2 and earlier, __file__ is only defined for
> imported modules; "python foo.py" will raise a NameError.

And even in later versions it can also be a problem for your main
script if you've packaged up your script into a standalone setup
(e.g., with installer/py2exe).

-- David


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 22 08:00:12 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 05:00:12 -0700
Subject: Newbie Question
In-Reply-To: <1gm24rk.3qtaypqesm69N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <4C1ed.5243$TU5.3711@trndny06>
	<irfhn0l4t1resvjc605bc72jr49upm02rh@4ax.com>
	<1gm24rk.3qtaypqesm69N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1098446412.7440.28.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 12:21 +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Alan Gauld <alan.gauld at btinternet.com> wrote:

> 
> > Others include "Teach Yourself Python in 24 hours" and
> > the "Visual Python"(?) book gets good crits too - but I haven't
> > read that one. 
> 
> Haven't read them either.  I have a bias against the titles!-)

Indeed.  I won't even consider any of the "Teach yourself X in Y
hours/days" books.  The ones I've perused appeared to kill entire
forests for the sake of large print, wide margins and content-free
imagery.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 06:50:23 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:50:23 +0200
Subject: key argument for max?
References: <mailman.5265.1098376117.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<5d83790c.0410242233.abecbf4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gm7p1n.1e0yepa15lnlphN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com> wrote:
   ...
> from itertools import imap, izip, tee
> 
> def newmax(*args, **kwds):
>     """Works just like max() but allows an optional key= argument.
> 
>     If several keys are equal and maximum, may return any one of them.
>     """
>     if 'key' not in kwds:
>         return max(*args)
>     func = kwds['key']

Errors should not pass silently, unless explicitly silenced.  I don't
like the idea of somebody mistakenly calling newmax(foo, kye=bar) and
having to find out "downstream" that the mistaken 'kye=bar' was just
silently ignored.  So, I would suggest rather using something like:

      func = kwds.pop('key', None)
      if kwds:
          raise TypeError, (
            'newmax() got an unexpected keyword argument %r' %
            (kwds.keys()[0],))
      if func is None:
          return max(*args)

>     if len(args) == 1:
>         v = args[0]
>     else:
>         v = args
>     v1, v2 = tee(v)
>     return max(izip(imap(func, v1), v2))[-1]

Unfortunately, this does not replicate an important functionality you
gave to the key= argument of .sort: that items themselves are NEVER
compared, even when they have equal keys.  So, for example, I can have
something like:

>>> c=[2j, 3+1j, 3, 2, 1+3j]
>>> sorted(c, key=abs)
[2j, 2, 3, (3+1j), (1+3j)]

but newmax(c, key=abs) would raise a TypeError.

It suffices, of course, to add 'count' to the names imported from
itertools, and change the function's last statement to:

      return max(izip(imap(func, v1), count(), v2))[-1]

As a side effect, I think this makes
      newmax(foo, key=bar) === sorted(foo, key=bar)[-1]
for any foo and bar.  Not sure whether this stronger spec is worth
committing to, as opposed to 'may return any one of them'.  But it sure
seems to me that the guarantee that comes with key=, that two items with
equal keys will never get compared to break the tie, _IS_ well worth
preserving for all uses of key=... -- it saves the day when items just
cannot be compared, and it avoids a performance trap when items _can_ be
compared but comparisons may be costly.


Alex


From deets.nospaaam at web.de  Mon Oct 11 08:51:43 2004
From: deets.nospaaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:51:43 +0200
Subject: Python to Python communication
References: <Xns957F95400C53Ecpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
Message-ID: <2svdv5F1q90r3U1@uni-berlin.de>

hi,

> XMLRPC - quite "simple" to implement within python, contained in my
> favourite web framework Quixote / medusa
> 
> SOAP - around the same amount of work as XMLRPC
> 
> ----> these two are fully buzzword compatible to enterprise communication
> needs. But are they really lightwight and needed?

Unless you don't need the connectivity to other non-python apps that depend
on using one of them, stay clear of those two. They are pretty slow,
primitive in the sense that all they give you is a stateless C-api-like
calls and by far not as mature as say corba. And last time I checked, the
SOAP-support in python was far from beeing complete. And that checking of
mine hasn't been too long ago.

> 
> Banana - within the twisted framework. Is described as high performance
> with very litte ressources. From my scanning of twisted it is meanwhile
> possible to integrate it within wxPython and you only need to sell the
> soul of your firstborn for it; but I got the impression twisted rather
> needs a total commitment than a "I just need some banana, man"
> pyro - Python Remote Objects. Irmen de Jong has a "get Firefox" icon on
> it's page and he plays with the name "pyro", which makes a good
> impression. It looks rather "ripe", but: he is talking about "pyro 4.0"
> which will be incompatible with pyro 3.4 and a total redesign. That makes
> me shudder.

Don't used those two, but if I had a similar situation to yours (namely no
non-python-apps), I'd certainly give pyro a try.

> COM / DCOM. From our favourite software company, available mainly within
> windows. Wrapped excellently with pywin32 ... but needs some seriuos
> type-mangeling to get through and around 2 Gig of Browser Cache to read
> all the MSDN documentation, which is quite C-ish.

I use Linux, so I won't comment on that.

> socket / select. Within the standard lib. Does not look to hard to get to
> work, working samples included in the nutshell.

Been down that road - but while its quick to start, it nearly as fast gets
tedious as your requirements develop - usually, you end up with your own
xmlrpc-style implementation. Better skip that.

I personally have very good expiriences with corba - omniORBpy, to be
precise. Don't know how well that runs on windows, though. But on *nix, it
certainly saved my day more than once.

Regards,

Diez


From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 12 18:02:40 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 15:02:40 -0700
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4538.1097192656.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8f17f4bc.0410080849.51fbdcfa@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62@posting.google.com>
	<a7a67196.0410082348.36fd45a@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410091859.39a6c028@posting.google.com>
	<416a53cd$0$16541$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<8f17f4bc.0410111438.7d73466f@posting.google.com>
	<416b8d92$0$7227$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410121402.1873b7b7@posting.google.com>

Eric Brunel <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote in message news:<416b8d92$0$7227$8fcfb975 at news.wanadoo.fr>...
> Ali wrote:
> >>Setting state='disabled' does not only prevent the user from editing the text, 
> >>but also prevents *you* from modifying the text via the insert or delete 
> >>methods. So whenever you want to insert or delete lines in the text, you must 
> >>configure its state to 'normal' before, do the modification, then set back its 
> >>state to 'disabled'
> >>
> >>HTH
> > 
> > 
> > OK so I tryed:
> > 
> > import Tkinter
> > def add_rows(w, titles, rows):
> >     t.state = 'normal'
> 
> tk options are not exposed as widget attributes, but via the configure method or 
> dictionary-style indexing. So this should be:
> 
> w.configure(state='normal')
> 
> or:
> 
> w['state'] = 'normal'
> 
> What you did only creates a new attribute named "state" for the widget, which 
> has no meaning at all at tk level.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> HTH

well I tryed this:

import Tkinter
def add_rows(w, titles, rows):
    t.configure(state = 'normal')
    w.configure(state = 'normal')
    for r in rows:
        for t, v in zip(titles, r):
            w.insert("end", "%s:\t%s\n" % (t, v))
        w.insert("end", "\n")

app = Tkinter.Tk()
t = Tkinter.Text(app)
t.pack()
info = [['Ali',18],
        ['Zainab',16],
        ['Khalid',18]]
add_rows(t, ["Name", "Age"], info)
app.mainloop()

Well... it shows the window, it doesnt show text, it still lets me type in stuff :( 
What is wrong now?


From jarausch at skynet.be  Tue Oct 12 10:29:17 2004
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:29:17 +0200
Subject: documentation files - where to install ?
In-Reply-To: <ckgggc$5an$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <2t1kf1F1r2ehtU1@uni-berlin.de> <ckg6vt$qhb$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416BBA1E.4070807@igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<ckgggc$5an$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <416BEA3D.2020500@skynet.be>

Peter Otten wrote:
>>>Here's where Python 2.3 looks for the documentation:
>>>
>>><pydoc.py excerpt>
>>>        homedir = os.environ.get('PYTHONHOME')
>>>        for dir in [os.environ.get('PYTHONDOCS'),
>>>                    homedir and os.path.join(homedir, 'doc'),
>>>                    os.path.join(execdir, 'doc'),
>>>                    '/usr/doc/python-docs-' + split(sys.version)[0],
>>>                    '/usr/doc/python-' + split(sys.version)[0],
>>>                    '/usr/doc/python-docs-' + sys.version[:3],
>>>                    '/usr/doc/python-' + sys.version[:3],
>>>                    os.path.join(sys.prefix,
>>>'Resources/English.lproj/Documentation')]:
>>>            if dir and os.path.isdir(os.path.join(dir, 'lib')):
>>>                self.docdir = dir
>>></pydoc.py excerpt>
>>>
>>>I've got the impression there may be a 'break' missing.
>>
>>Strangely, it looks the same here (Python 2.4 installed in 
>>/usr/local/lib/python2.4) I would have expected something like
>>/usr/local/lib/python2.4/doc So, I'd like to suggest to add a 'configure'
>>option for this.
> 
> 
> No patience to read up http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html right
> now, but if there is a standard location for documentation concerning
> programs installed from source (/usr/local/share/doc/pythonXXX with the
> proper version suffix maybe?) it could just be added to the hardcoded paths
> in pydoc.py. 
> What would you expect the configure option to do?
> 
Given, say, the configure option  --docdir=PATH, the install script 
could modify pydoc.py to include that PATH just after 
os.environ.get('PYTHONDOCS')

Helmut.


-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 03:42:39 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 00:42:39 -0700
Subject: String to Hex
References: <6f402501.0410270242.521c6ab2@posting.google.com>
	<closr5$4vs$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410282342.59a95776@posting.google.com>

Rick Holbert <holbertr at dma.org> wrote in message news:<closr5$4vs$1 at charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>...
> The following look like they will work on Python 2.3.4:
> 
> long(float('-0x55aff8080000'))

>>> long(float('-0x55aff8080000'))

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#1>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    long(float('-0x55aff8080000'))
ValueError: invalid literal for float(): -0x55aff8080000
>>> 

It was this error that surprised me...... 

> int(float('-0x55aff8080000'))
> eval('-0x55aff8080000')

eval doesn't get round the problem at all....
>>> eval('0xffffffff')
<string>:0: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return
positive values in Python 2.4 and up
-1

Regards,

Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> 
> Some programmers frown upon the use of eval(), so use it at your own risk.
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Rick
> 
> Michael Foord wrote:
> 
> > How do you safely turn an arbitrarily long signed hex string into a
> > long integer ?
> > e.g. -0x55aff8080000
> > 
> > When treating them as hex literals I'm getting future warnings that
> > from 2.4 hex values greater than sys.maxint will always return
> > positive values. I've had to treat them as strings and write a
> > function to turn them into longs a character at a time ! I couldn't
> > find a built in function that would do this for me.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Fuzzy
> > 
> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From nicolas at lehuen.com  Tue Oct 12 04:40:45 2004
From: nicolas at lehuen.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 01:40:45 -0700
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<1glbyrn.4jt08j144wg1dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b644658b.0410120040.723f73a1@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1glbyrn.4jt08j144wg1dN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> > Guido did not impose the GIL lightly.  This is a hard problem.
> 
> Sure.  I wonder what (e.g.) IronPython or Ruby do about it -- never
> studied the internals of either, yet.
> 
> 
> Alex

I've just asked the question on the IronPython mailing list - I'll
post the answer here. I've also asked about Jython since Jim Hugunin
worked on it.

Just as a note, coming from a Java background (I switched to Python
two years ago and nearly never looked back - my current job allows
this, I'm an happy guy), I must say that there is a certain deficit of
thread-awareness in the Python community at large (not offense meant).

The stdlib is actually quite poor on the thread-safe side, and whereas
I see people rush to implement Doug Lea's concurrent package
[http://gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl/classes/EDU/oswego/cs/dl/util/concurrent/intro.html]
on new languages like D, it seems that it is not a priority to the
Python community (maybe a point in the 'develop the stdlib vs develop
the interpreter and language' debate). A symptom of this is that
must-have classes like threading.RLock() are still implemented in
Python ! This should definitely be written in C for the sake of
performance.

I ran into many multi-threading problem in mod_python as well, and the
problem was the same ; people expected mod_python to run in a
multi-process context, not a multi-threaded context (I guess this is
due to a Linux-centered mindset, forgetting about BSD, MacosX or Win32
OSes). When I asked questions and pointed problem, the answer was 'Duh
- use Linux with the forking MPM, not Windows with the threading MPM'.
Well, this is not going to take us anywhere, especially with all the
multicore CPUs coming.

Java, C#, D and many other languages prove that threading is not
necessarily a complicated issue. I can be tricky, granted, but where
would be the fun it if it was not ? In a former life, I have
implemented an application server and had to write a big bunch of
code, always with thread awareness in mind. I guarantee you that
provided your language gives you the proper support (I was using
Java), it's a real treat :).

With all respect due to the Founding Fathers (and most of all Guido),
there are quite a few languages out there that do not require a GIL...
I understand that historical implementation issues meant that a GIL
was required (we talk about a language whose implementation began in
the early nineties), but maybe it is time to reconsider this in Python
3000 ? And while I'm on this iconoclast binge, why not forget about
reference counting and just switch to plain garbage collecting
everywhere, thus clearing a lot of the mess we have to deal with when
writing C extensions ? Plus, a full garbage collection model can
actually help with threading issues, and vice versa.

I know a lot of people who fleed Python for two reasons. The first
reason is a bad one, it's the indentation-as-syntax reason. My answer
is 'just try it'. The second reason is concerns about performance and
scalability, especially from those who heard about the GIL. Well, all
I can answer is 'That will improve over time, look at Psyco, for
instance'. But as far as the GIL is concerned, well... I'm as worried
as them. Please, please, could we change this ?

Regards,

Nicolas Lehuen


From bostjan.jerko at mf.uni-lj.si  Fri Oct 15 07:40:30 2004
From: bostjan.jerko at mf.uni-lj.si (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Bo=B9tjan_Jerko?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:40:30 +0200
Subject: importing over network
Message-ID: <ckod02$lk9$1@planja.arnes.si>

Is there a possibility to do import over the network?
I would like to put all my modules on a server and import them over the 
network (internet or LAN).

B.


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Sat Oct  9 22:46:28 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 19:46:28 -0700
Subject: Init a table of functions
In-Reply-To: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>
Message-ID: <cka7q6$4u7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Paulo da Silva wrote:
> How do I program something like the folowing program?
> PYTHON claims it doesn't know about 'foo' when initializing K!
> The only way I got this to work was doing the init of K in
> the __init__ func. But this runs everytime for each object!
> When using the name of the function without 'foo', I don't
> know how to call it!
> 
> Thanks for any help.

Move the table outside of the class definition

class foo(object):
     def f1():
         print 'f1'
     f1 = staticmethod(f1)

foo.K = {'f1': foo.f1,
         }

foo.K['f1']()

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From scitronpousty at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 16:43:17 2004
From: scitronpousty at gmail.com (Steven Citron-Pousty)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 13:43:17 -0700
Subject: Python and ESRI (GIS)
References: <mailman.3436.1095396279.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8f2a2009.0410141243.7d87adbf@posting.google.com>

Python is not a replacement for Avenue. In ArcGIS, VBA is the
replacement for Avenue. Python is a closer, and far superior
replacement, to AML. They have really integrated quite nicely into
their product.
Steve

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.3436.1095396279.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Tim Churches wrote:
> > It seems that Python skills are now highly desirable for GIS 
> > people using ESRI 
> > products - and ESRI has a major slice of the GIS software 
> > market. ESRI seems to be 
> > positioning Python as a replacement for its own proprieatry 
> > scripting language 
> > (Avenue)? Is that correct?
> 
> Probably. I just took an ArcView I class last week from GeoMorphIS;
> while the (very competent) lecturer lectured, I played with Python 2.1
> installed on the desktop provided ;)
> 
> ArcView is the stripped-down version of ArcEdit, the stripped-down
> version of ArcInfo, the premiere ESRI GIS client. All of these packages
> use a central scripting tool called ArcToolbox for *all* scripting, from
> geo DB's to the client software itself. The object model is pretty
> complete. It is my understanding that any of those scripts can be
> written in Python. None of the defaults were, however.
> 
> So there's that anecdote. Plus, whenever we mention to anyone from ESRI
> or their partners that I write everything in Python at work, their ears
> perk up *noticeably*. "Ooooh, so you use Python...? Cool... You're using
> pygarmin to push and pull GPS data already? Let me send over one of our
> engineers..."
> 
> Buzz is fun. :) I have a trial copy of ArcView if you have any specific
> questions.
> 
> 
> Robert Brewer
> MIS
> Amor Ministries
> fumanchu at amor.org


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 16 17:14:44 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:14:44 -0700
Subject: Poll script in Python
In-Reply-To: <81a41dd.0410161038.af422a0@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.5043.1097937424.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<81a41dd.0410161038.af422a0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041016141312.09E7.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> About web poll

Like: http://www.quizilla.com/
Or: http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=1192&aid=-1

You must be precise.

 - Josiah



From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Fri Oct  1 09:33:21 2004
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:33:21 +0200
Subject: Calling (C)Python code from Java: Is it JPype?
In-Reply-To: <du7wtybod4b.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <cjeem1$5h9$1@newshispeed.ch>	<1DI6d.223$j5.307837@weber.videotron.net>	<cjg70t$gun$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<du7wtybod4b.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <415D5CA1.5070105@cenix-bioscience.com>

Ville Vainio wrote:

>>>>>>"f.geiger" == F GEIGER <f.geiger at vol.at> writes:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>
>
>    f.geiger> GUI in a compiled lang, the gist in Python. If so, I'll give it a try.
>
>Why GUI in compiled lang? Typically the time in a GUI is spent in a
>GUI library, which is native code.
>
>  
>
Hello,

          As I remember, the OP said that he was going to use Java - the 
GUI toolkit for that is very nice and extremely portable (no cross 
platform niggling little issues 'the window doesn't behave that way on 
linux - well it does on windows!!') - the reason for this - Java GUI 
(Swing ignore AWT for the point of this - AWT has the same problems as 
other native GUI toolkits) is _not_ native.  Although I must agree that 
using cross language and two separate processes seems like more of a 
headache that testing the python code.

Cheers,

Neil

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
BioInnovations Zentrum
Tatzberg 47
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (0)351 4173 154
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com



From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 09:06:24 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 06:06:24 -0700
Subject: python file versioning
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410250506.1d679430@posting.google.com>

2 enable non-backward compatible changes to be made to the language or
the standard library (or other libraries, for that matter), i feel
there should be a way to version python files. the current __future__
system suffers from changing behaviour in the absence of the imports,
from version to version of the interpreter. this means that i can't
simply run a python file without knowing which version of the
interpreter it was developed against.

with such a versioning system, non-backward compatible changes can be
made to libraries without breaking code. (the __future__ mechanism
seems to cover only the language)

at some time in the future (not __future__!), we could allow
side-by-side execution of different versions of libraries on the same
interpreter.

-kartik


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Oct  5 11:57:19 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:57:19 -0400
Subject: File handling: The easy and the hard way
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.02.16.36.49.840028@web.de>
References: <pan.2004.09.30.13.56.48.18412@web.de>	<mailman.4141.1096557347.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.02.16.36.49.840028@web.de>
Message-ID: <4162C45F.5030302@bellsouth.net>

In order to beat an already dead and decaying horse:

Hans-Joachim Widmaier wrote:

>Am Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:15:32 -0400 schrieb Jeremy Jones:
>
>  
>
>>>Tracebacks
>>>are fine for programmers, but end users really never should see any.
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Bushwa.  End users may or may not be able to make sense of them, but it 
>>doesn't mean they _should_ never see them.
>>    
>>
>
>I see tracebacks as programmer errors. Now, a missing file isn't a
>programmer error, but not handling it gracefully is.
>  
>
Agreed (pretty much).  But "gracefully" is a relative term and may be 
different in different situations.  My point has been, sometimes the 
most graceful thing you can do is just let the exception bubble up to 
the top.  Should programmers try to handle as many exceptions as 
possible and keep the user from seeing them?  Absolutely.  Does that 
mean that it makes sense to always keep the typical, average, 
(non-technical even) end user from ever seeing them?  I don't think so.  
I think it's OK in absolutely extreme situations.  It may be OK even in 
some non-extreme situations, but I'm not going to assert that without 
thinking about it and providing an example.  My point is to use common 
sense.  Don't have a universal rule that says, "No user must ever see a 
traceback."

>  
>
>>I think the traceback is perfectly understandable.  I think that even an
>>end-user would be able to comprehend that type of message.  Or, if you
>>get an IOError, is this not sufficient: IOError: [Errno 28] No space
>>left on device ?
>>    
>>
>
>To programmers, yes. Or rather, no, as I tried to explain: even my
>co-workers switch to 'your program crashed' mode when they're confronted
>with a traceback. They never read that final line that tells them that
>the sole problem was a typo on their part.
>  
>
Your co-workers may need some help in this regard.  Perhaps they need to 
spend some more time with the interactive interpreter.  I can't tell you 
how many exceptions I've seen at the interpreter because I've 
fat-fingered something.  If they spent more time with the interpreter, 
maybe they would cultivate a different mindset.  Who knows - maybe their 
mindset it correct and mine is wrong?

>  
>
>>Chances are, end users aren't going to be particulary concerned with
>>exceptions you log - unless they've got a problem that they can't figure
>>out.  And if they've got a problem they can't figure out, you'd be
>>better off giving them as much information as you can give them, or
>>they'll come to you for help.  And when they do come to you for help,
>>you'd better make sure you've given yourself the most informatino you
>>can to solve the problem.  So logging a traceback is a great idea IMHO.
>>Now, in areas where you're dead sure that an exception is nothing to be
>>concerned with, don't bother.  So, a good approach may be: handle the
>>specific exceptions that you know may occur, let other unexpected (or
>>expected in worst case scenarios) exceptions filter up to a higher
>>level, log them there, and if need be, terminate program execution.
>>    
>>
>
>I don't want to _log_ exceptions, I want to handle them in a meaningful
>way. Of course, if an end user gets a traceback because of a program
>error, I'm more than happy with the traceback. This was unforseen
>(otherwise I'd handled that).
>  
>
I think this is a good approach and what I have been suggesting.  Handle 
all the exceptions you can foresee and keep them from the user.  But let 
the rest come up to the user and log it so either they or you or both of 
you together can figure out what the problem is. 

>
>  
>
>>I dunno - something just doesn't feel right here.  I kinda feel like
>>you're wanting to create an over-generalized solution.
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, that's bugging me, too. I'm not all that happy with it myself,
>otherwise I'd started to write such a class in the meantime.
>  
>
I think you are on track for writing a useful utility for certain types 
of file handling - not all types.  I would certainly not be happy if 
such a class replaced the standard file class.  I would not, however,  
be unhappy if such a thing made its way into the standard library as an 
exception handling file class with callback capabilities. 

>  
>
>>Hope I didn't jump too hard.
>>    
>>
>
>I can take it.
>
>Thanks for the good advice,
>Hans-Joachim
>  
>
As I mentioned to Steve in an earlier discussion on this same thread, I 
think that we're all saying a lot of the same things in different ways.  
I do apologize to you if I jumped on you a bit hard.  It appeared that 
you were asserting that this was the "proper" way of doing all file 
handling.  I don't think it is.  And I'm not sure you're saying that.  
Having said all that, I think I'm done with this thread. 

now-that-the-dead-horse-has-been-beaten-again-I-can-shut-up-ly y'rs,

Jeremy
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From rupole at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 21 14:06:25 2004
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:06:25 -0400
Subject: How can I do French and English Spell Checking using MS Word
	from Python
References: <mailman.5211.1098260653.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<5O2dnbI66-z9c-rcRVn-gw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <4177f938$1_2@127.0.0.1>

If you don't have a document loaded into Word, Selection returns None.
    hth
       Roger

"Pater Maximus" <emayo at home.com> wrote in message
news:5O2dnbI66-z9c-rcRVn-gw at comcast.com...
> I am a newbie to Python and do not understand COM so forgive the
irrelevant
> details encluded below:
>
> Well I thought I had the problem solved, but it stopped working for both
> Dispatch and EnsureDispatch. The code is:
>
> import win32com.client
> import msword9
> #msword = win32com.client.Dispatch("Word.Application")
> #msword.Selection.LanguageID=1033
> msword = win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch ("Word.Application")
> msword.Selection.LanguageID = 1033
>
> Here is what happened.
> * I added German language spell checking to Word and started getting
> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'LanguageID'
>
> * Since my source was unchanged, I figured I had better rebuild some
stuff.
> Ran makepy as follows
>
> C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office>"c:\program
> files\python\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\makepy.pyc" msword9.olb >
> "c:\program files\python\msword9.py"
>
> Generating to
> C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\site-packages\win32com\gen_py\00020905-0000
> -0000-C000-000000000046x0x8x1.py
> that is 1445KB
> It also produced
> the .pyc version of the above with 1542KB
> c:\program files\python\msword9.py with 0 bytes
> c:\program files\python\msword9.pyc with 218 bytes
>
> 00020905-0000-0000-C000-000000000046x0x8x1.py has "Selection" defined and
> "LanguageID" is a property but they are not being found. However, the
> following command seems to find the library
>
> >>> win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch("Word.Application")
> <win32com.gen_py.Microsoft Word 9.0 Object Library._Application instance
at
> 0x9887256>
>
> What am I doing wrong???
>
> Thanks...
>
>
>
>




From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 06:56:22 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 03:56:22 -0700
Subject: HTTP Headers to make a download
References: <6f402501.0410120756.63276342@posting.google.com>
	<416ca56c$1_3@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410130256.4669930e@posting.google.com>

mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr) wrote in message news:<416ca56c$1_3 at omega.dimensional.com>...
> fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) writes:
> 
> > I'm creating a CGI that offers files for download. After googling I
> > though I had the right headers to send to force a download - but it
> > sends the data to the browser instead of opening the download 'save
> > file' dialog. Can anyone see what I'm doing wrong/suggest an
> > alternative ?
> >
> > responseline = '''Content-Type: application/octet-stream
> > Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=%s
> > Content-Length: %s
> > '''
> >
> > print responseline % (filename, len(filedata))
> > print filedata
> 
> What browser and platform are you using?  Not all browsers honor
> Content-Disposition -- some base their display-or-download decision
> on the content itself.  For example, using Opera 7.54 on FreeBSD
> and your example code, this string displays in the browser:
> 
> filedata = 'What hath Guido wrought?'
> 
> Whereas this string, different only in the first character, caused
> the browser to present a download popup:
> 
> filedata = '\xbfWhat hath Guido wrought?'
> 
> In the first case, where the browser displayed the data, clicking
> "Save" or "File->Save As" did use the file name that was in the
> Content-Disposition header.

My test was with IE 6 (I think ? - the default XP one anyway) and
sending a zipfile - so binary data.

Hmmm.......

'Save Target As' ought to work... but I'd rather be able to let the
browser know it's expecting a download.
(I ought to test that 'save target' *does* work properly...)

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From peter at semantico.com  Tue Oct  5 04:51:27 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:51:27 +0100
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4162608b$0$7742$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> Andrew Dalke wrote:
>> You are asking the wrong question.  You are asking about
>> technique, not goal.
>>
> No, no, I want the C speed.

Then write it in C!

There is no magic bullet programming language that will do everything, be cool 
and write itself. At some point you are just going to have to sit down and 
actually learn something.


From thorsten.reichelt at urz.uni-heidelberg.de  Mon Oct 25 09:59:19 2004
From: thorsten.reichelt at urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Thorsten Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:59:19 +0200
Subject: collision detection and penetration depth
References: <0jopn01agpcmadln9btclb6m4klh0venmp@4ax.com>
	<cliqld$ou$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <r91qn01cjnbeq5s67u4au1qiot6sgmj75v@4ax.com>

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:13:30 +0200, "Diez B. Roggisch"
<deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:

>I've been working on a freeesolid binding for pyhthon - it has been pretty
>much complete, and to create it was a piece of cake - I did it in two days,
>while learning how to actually do it. 
I'm learning loads of stuff on the way during this project, so I'd be
glad for anything I can just use without really understanding ;).

> At least under linux, with a decent
>compiler available and the distutils at your hands, its no big deal.
Well, we're stuck with windows, really.

>I'd be glad to give the binding to you - but unfortunately, a hd-crash has
>blown it into oblivion.
Just my luck ;). Sorry about your lost work, I hope this was the worst
that happened.

>And in the meantime, I discovered that there exists some other lib that
>actually was better suited for my problems: The Open Dynamics Engine. It
>also featurs a collision detection amongst other features, and there exist
>even two bindings for python: PyODE is one of them, the other I didn't try.
Seems they've merged the two. Anyway, from what I've read so far, this
looks really promising. Thanks for the quick and helpful reply!

Regards,
Thorsten Reichelt


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Oct 20 09:07:00 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:07:00 -0500
Subject: Free hosting for Python open-source projects
In-Reply-To: <864d37090410200435765736fb@mail.gmail.com> (Carlos Ribeiro's
	message of "Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:35:02 -0300")
References: <864d370904101914067b7a1728@mail.gmail.com>
	<m2y8i2bg54.fsf@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>
	<864d37090410200435765736fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m26555sfm3.fsf@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Carlos" == Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> writes:

    Carlos> Thanks for the reply, and sorry to waste bandwidth. BTW,
    Carlos> your very own post is now #3 on my query. Fast to update
    Carlos> the index, isn't it?

Fast indeed, that's why I added the "or so" caveat..

I'm not too concerned about bandwidth, but I do like to spread the
word of how stupendously useful google groups can be, especially when
you provide google with some useful hints like limiting searches to
the python news groups and sorting by date.  The latter is especially
helpful when seeking book, package or hosting recommendation, which as
you note tend to change quickly.

JDH



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Oct 13 11:53:23 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:53:23 -0400
Subject: sequence of objects
In-Reply-To: <ckjgg5$8h1$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <ckjgg5$8h1$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <416D4F73.6050801@bellsouth.net>

Neal D. Becker wrote:

>What is the recommended way to create a sequence of objects?  Assume the
>objects have a default constructor:
>
>class X:
>  def __init__(self):
>    something
>
>This doesn't work:
>a = 64*(X(),)
>
>This creates a tuple of 64 copies of a single identical object, not 64
>instances of X.
>
>I could create an empty list, then call append (X()) 64 times, but that's
>not very eligant (or maybe efficient).  Any suggestions?
>
>  
>
The answer is, "it depends on what you are trying to do."  Here is _a_ 
solution:


In [5]: class X:
   ...:     def __init__(self, id):
   ...:         self.id = id
   ...:

In [6]: def gen_64():
   ...:     for i in range(64):
   ...:         yield X(i)
   ...:


And if you want to iterate through them, you can do something like:


In [7]: for i in gen_64():
   ...:     print i, i.id



Jeremy Jones

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From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Oct 14 17:38:25 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:38:25 -0500
Subject: The Art of  Pickling: Binary vs Ascii difficulties
In-Reply-To: <bSCbd.3337$6k2.349@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> (Andrew
	Dalke's message of "Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:13:27 GMT")
References: <171d9905.0410141128.3104bb95@posting.google.com>
	<416ef368$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<bSCbd.3337$6k2.349@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <m21xg1ou9a.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:

    Andrew> Standards wonk that I am, I was curious about this.  I've

Well, if you are a standards wonk and emacs user, you might have fun
with this little bit of python and emacs code.  If you place rfc.py in
your PATH

#!/usr/bin/env python
# Print an RFC indicated by a command line arg to stdout
#   > rfc.py 822

import urllib, sys

try: n = int(sys.argv[1])
except:
    print 'Example usage: %s 822' % sys.argv[0] 
    sys.exit(1)

print urllib.urlopen('http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc%d.txt' % n).read()


and add this function to your .emacs

;;** RFC
(defun rfc (num)
  "Insert RFC indicated by num into buffer *RFC<num>*"
  (interactive "sRFC: ")
  (shell-command 
    (concat "rfc.py " num)
    (concat "*RFC" num "*")))


You can get rfc's in your emacs buffer by doing

  M-x rfc ENTER 20 ENTER

And now back you our regularly scheduled work day.

JDH


From john3gz at bestwebz.net  Sun Oct 10 21:22:10 2004
From: john3gz at bestwebz.net (John M. Gabriele)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:22:10 -0400
Subject: Hello
In-Reply-To: <f1b4f$41694ef8$53e8229a$629@freeler.nl>
References: <f1b4f$41694ef8$53e8229a$629@freeler.nl>
Message-ID: <10mjo228d4fcnc2@corp.supernews.com>

jwaixs wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> This mail is just to say welcome to everybody. Because I never 
> used Usernet before. I think I will look like a real n00b now. 
> 
> Bye,
> 
> jwaixs (is this nickname alright, or do you prefer my real name?)
> 
> ----------------------------JW-19-XS-----------------------------------


I don't think the nickname is really necessary. Many responsible
folks on usenet use their real names -- over time, it builds
credibility, IMO.

---J

-- 
--- remove zees if contacting via email ---


From kjetilho at yksi.ifi.uio.no  Sat Oct  2 02:02:16 2004
From: kjetilho at yksi.ifi.uio.no (Kjetil Torgrim Homme)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 08:02:16 +0200
Subject: idiom for debug code?
References: <y6SdnUz8sr673sHcRVn-gA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1ry8ipzmhj.fsf@glesvat.ifi.uio.no>

[Dan Perl]:
>
>   Is there a mechanism or an idiom for adding code for debugging so that it 
>   can easily be removed in the production code?  I am thinking of something 
>   similar to the C/C++ preprocessor statements with which you can compile an 
>   application with the debug code or without it (the default).

assert is nice, but it's not really what I call debug code -- that's
code which should stay.

for "true" debug code, use the logging module and emit debug messages
with logging.debug("...").  you can raise the debug level if you don't
need them.

or define your own debug() function.  to disable debug, simply bind a
null function to that name.  this rebinding can be done dynamically,
of course.  (this is what the logging module does with unwanted log
levels.)

in either case, you may want to avoid code like:

   debug("Mother's smell is %s, number of taunts %d" % (fruit, count))

since Python won't be smart enough to skip the string interpolation.
instead, write it as

   debug("Mother's smell is %s, number of taunts %d", fruit, count)

and do the interpolation inside the debug function.
-- 
Kjetil T.


From theller at python.net  Fri Oct 22 15:06:18 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:06:18 +0200
Subject: py2exe 0.5.4 released
Message-ID: <oeiuk1xx.fsf@python.net>

**py2exe 0.5.4** released
===================================

py2exe is a Python distutils extension which converts python scripts
into executable windows programs, able to run without requiring a
python installation.  Console and Windows (GUI) applications, windows
NT services, exe and dll COM servers are supported.

Changes in this release:

    * The new ``--xref`` or ``-x`` command line switch instructs
      py2exe to create a python module cross reference and display it
      in the webbrowser.  This allows to answer question why a certain
      module has been included, or if you can exlude a certain module
      and it's dependencies.  This has *not* been extensively tested,
      but it's a start.  Also, the html page includes links which will
      even allow to view the source code of a module in the browser,
      for easy inspection.

      A sample cross reference can be found here, note that the links
      to open the .py files will of course not work over the internet:
      http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/sample_xref.html

    * Mark Hammond fixed some thread state issues with dll com
      servers.

    * Mark Hammond added support for standalone ISAPI dlls.

    * py2exe now can handle python modules with the '.pyw' extension.

    * It is now allowed to specify 'zipfile=None' in the setup script,
      in this case the zip archive containing the python modules will
      be appended to the exe file.

Homepage:

    <http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe>

Download from the usual location:

    <http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=15583>

Enjoy,

Thomas



From sean.berry2 at cox.net  Tue Oct 12 20:40:36 2004
From: sean.berry2 at cox.net (news.west.cox.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:40:36 -0700
Subject: PIL question - saving JPEG
References: <mphad.42310$a85.20380@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <3Q_ad.68505$a85.7158@fed1read04>

Got it working.

I needed to copy the PIL directory intp site-packages/PIL...
apparently the pyc files do not get recreated automatically.

"news.west.cox.net" <sean.berry2 at cox.net> wrote in message 
news:mphad.42310$a85.20380 at fed1read04...
>I have a fairly simple Python program that uses Image and ImageDraw to 
>create poll results on the fly.
>
> Because PIL only supports 256 colors for GIF and BMPs are huge (in 
> comparison)... I have opted to create JPEGs.
>
> I have installed JPEG-6b and have checked to see that all of the libraries 
> are in the correct, expected places.  But, I am still getting the 
> following error.
>
> IOError: encoder jpeg not available
>
> Anyone with some PIL experience know how to get this working?  I really 
> appreciate any help offered.
>
> If you need more information, just ask.  I will be checking this post for 
> the next few days.
>
>
> 




From news at outbacklinux.com  Mon Oct 18 07:19:59 2004
From: news at outbacklinux.com (Adrian Casey)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:49:59 +0930
Subject: PyKDE : Can I embed a Konsole?
Message-ID: <4173a6e0@duster.adelaide.on.net>

I'd like to embed a Konsole inside my PyQt-based application. I'm using the
pexpect module extensively and would dearly like to add the ability to read
and write to Konsole sessions from my application (i.e. send commands and
read the output send to Konsole).  I would also like to process the output
stream in the normal 'expect' manner and send appropriate input based on
decisions made.

I've seen examples of embeding the KHTML widget but have not yet seen the
same done with a Konsole.  Has anyone done it?  Is it possible?

My application has the ability to create accounts, set passwords and run
ad-hoc commands across multiple systems - generic 'expect' type
functionality.  The ability to connect the expect stream to a Konsole and
thereby monitor the interaction with the remote systems would be very
handy.  Further, the ability to switch to 'interactive' mode when
exceptions are raised would allow the user to assume 'manual pilot'
operation during unexpected error conditions.

>From the shell, I can use dcop to create new Konsole sessions within
existing Konsole windows.  This is not the ideal solution as it does not
appear possible to connect a 'pexpect' session to a Konsole thus launched. 
Of course, those Konsoles are also external to my application.  Not ideal.

Regards.
Adrian Casey.
Alice Springs Linux User Group
http://www.aslug.org.au

If you've ever used expect, be sure the take a look at pexpect.  It can be
found at http://pexpect.sourceforge.net


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 25 15:17:36 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:17:36 -0400
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <vKKdnUxHIOPNzODcRVn-2Q@powergate.ca>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-10-25, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>The problem is the time spent answering questions and helping
>>>the people who have the source code.
>>
>>Whatever gave you the idea you are obligated to provide support?!
> 
> Experience.
> 
> Customers seem to have no problem with not getting source code,
> but once you _do_ give them source code then you have to
> support it.  Ignoring customers when they ask questions about
> the source code has always proven in past experience to be "not
> an option."

Evil, nasty customers, we hates them!  They asks us questions
and pays us money for our precioussssss time.

-Gollum


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Oct 25 17:22:32 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:22:32 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<vKKdnUxHIOPNzODcRVn-2Q@powergate.ca>
	<417d5862$0$45532$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<m37jpevade.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<417d6770$0$513$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <mai
	<417d6e12$0$507$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <417D6E98.E55D5CE6@alcyone.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> I'm not arguing agains open source.  I'm arguing against the
> statement that releasing source code doesn't cost anything.

But it's only costing you something because you choose to let it. 
Nothing compels you legally to provide support, so making the connection
between one and the other is a personal choice, not a requirement
regarding open source in and of itself.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Liberty without learning is always in peril; learning without
    liberty is always in vain. -- John F. Kennedy


From olli at haluter.fromme.com  Fri Oct 22 07:19:29 2004
From: olli at haluter.fromme.com (Oliver Fromme)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 11:19:29 GMT
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch> <2tpq8vF20rf1rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cl8fe5$43h$1@news.imp.ch>
Message-ID: <2ts8m1F240dpmU1@uni-berlin.de>

Daniel Mueller <da_mueller at gmx.net> wrote:
 > Oliver Fromme wrote:
 > > The portable way is to stat the file (see os.stat) every
 > > 10 seconds, look at the mtime (modification time), and
 > > if it did change, then open/read/close.  
 > 
 > hmm i'll have to rephrase my question... i KNOW that the file changes 
 > every 10 seconds...

In that case you have to re-read the file every 10 seconds
anyway, no matter what.

The only optimization that's worthwhile is to keep the file
open all the time, so you spare the overhead of the open()
system call.  In other words, open it _once_, then read it
(do not close it!), and after 10 seconds rewind -- that is,
file.seek(0) -- and re-read it.

I don't know what the contents of that file look like (I
don't use Linux), nor do I want to know.  But since the Li-
nux procfs usually produces ASCII text files (which is a
mistake, in my opinion), I guess it should be pretty easy
to parse and find the difference.

If it's more complicated than that, Python's difflib might
be helpful:  http://docs.python.org/lib/module-difflib.html

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Konrad-Celtis-Str. 72, 81369 Munich, Germany

``All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream.''
(E. A. Poe)


From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct  5 08:08:09 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:08:09 GMT
Subject: Language co-operation (was: New to Python: Features)
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6qda32-egv.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Richard Blackwood  <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>> Anything with C or C++ interfaces are arguably trivial to talk to.
>> 
>
>I guess D should work then.
			.
			.
			.
You've mentioned D at least a couple of times.  I know
of at least three languages called "D".  My *guess* is
that you have Walter Bright's D in mind.  If you want
to pursue this constructively, specificity will give
you more of what I regard as useful results.


From markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 24 00:22:50 2004
From: markus_wankusGETRIDOFALLCAPS at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:22:50 -0400
Subject: ANN: Frog 1.0 beta  (Python 'blog' system)
In-Reply-To: <417adbe1$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <417adbe1$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <K6Ged.65569$JG5.1248703@news20.bellglobal.com>

Irmen de Jong wrote:

> I've just uploaded Frog 1.0 beta.
> 
> Frog is a blogging (web log) system written in 100% Python.
> It is a web application written for Snakelets.
> It outputs XHTML, is fully unicode compatible, and doesn't
> require a database.
> 
> You can read about it and download (about 50 Kb) it here:
> http://snakelets.sourceforge.net/frog/
> 
> If you don't want to install it yet, you can first try it out here:
> http://www.razorvine.net/snake/frog/
> (the passwords of each user is the same as the username).
> 
> 
> It's still beta. If you encounter bugs or problems, please let me know.
> 
> 
> Enjoy,
> --Irmen de Jong.


Nice work (as usual)!  I plan on trying this out ASAP...

Markus.


From elie at flashmail.com  Wed Oct 20 12:48:14 2004
From: elie at flashmail.com (Eli Daniel)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 09:48:14 -0700
Subject: String changing on the fly
Message-ID: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm new to Python. Can you please tell me if the following is
possible.

My users are using other scripting launguage to write scripts. They
are used to write somthing like (keeping it simple)
T = 100
do_action ('It cost $T dollars')

where the above syntax ('It cost $T dollars') is interperted as ('It
cost 100 dollars').
I saw on way of doing it by using 'it cost '+ str(T) + ' dollars'.
But trying to keep it backward compatible, is there a way for the
function do_action, which resides in a class in a seperate file, to
take the original string (with the '$T') and replace it with the value
of T?

cheers


From just at xs4all.nl  Fri Oct 29 10:46:58 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:46:58 +0200
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>
	<1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<du7d5z1fx08.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <just-D2DC45.16465829102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <du7d5z1fx08.fsf at mozart.cc.tut.fi>,
 Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:

> >>>>> "Just" == Just  <just at xs4all.nl> writes:
> 
>     >> Seconded!  Python 2.5 should be mostly about standard-library
>     >> enhancements, and ctypes would be a huge enhancement to Python's 
>     >> stdlib.
> 
>     Just> In general, Guido is very reluctant to accept thing which
>     Just> make is easy to cause segfaults. I predict you'll have a
> 
> Why is that? Users of ctypes can quite easily understand that when
> they are using ctypes, they are not using Python but rather
> integrating Python with the environment. Of course using pure Python
> code (and integrating with only the C code that is bundled with the
> distribution) shouldn't segfault, but with ctypes tho user will know
> that the third party code is to blame.
> 
> Or are there some security issues?
> 
> One of the perceived strengths of Python is the fact that it
> integrates well with the platforms it is running on, so it's not an
> insulated box like Java.

Another one of Pythons perceived strengths is that if you get a 
segfault, it's a bug in Python. With ctypes that will no longer be as 
clear.

There's also a practical problem with including ctypes (unless it's an 
optional module, like bsddb) is that it depends (at least on unix) on a 
rather large and complex library: libffi.

I personally love ctypes, although I haven't used it in real projects 
yet. It's a wonderful package. But I don't think it's a good fit for the 
std library (regardless of the arguments above).

Just


From adurdin at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 18:42:55 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:42:55 +1100
Subject: how to re-import changed code?
In-Reply-To: <OFBC6ED15B.3D68910F-ONC1256F2E.006C0A71-C1256F2E.007DA7C4@profactor.at>
References: <OFBC6ED15B.3D68910F-ONC1256F2E.006C0A71-C1256F2E.007DA7C4@profactor.at>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a04102115426fcef1da@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:47:36 +0200, wolfgang.stoecher at profactor.at
<wolfgang.stoecher at profactor.at> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> another beginner's question:
> when I import a module, change the corresponding textfile and try to
> import the same module again, it looks like the internal code does not
> change (the source-line in an error-message is up to date, however!). Also
> del module before import and deleting the .pyc file do not help! How to
> realize a fast edit-try-cycle? (btw: I am using python 2.2 under windows)

You can use the reload() builtin:

>>> help(reload)
Help on built-in function reload:

reload(...)
    reload(module) -> module

    Reload the module.  The module must have been successfully imported before.

For example:

>>>import mymodule
>>># Change mymodule.py here
>>>reload(mymodule)


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct 26 21:51:49 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:51:49 -0500
Subject: What does [...] mean?
In-Reply-To: <417EFAFD.6090509@earthlink.net>
References: <417EFAFD.6090509@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20041027015148.GA5513@unpythonic.net>

This is a list in which one (or two) of the members is the list itself.

Here's a simple example of such a list:
>>> l = [1, 2, 3]
>>> l.insert(1, l)
>>> l
[1, [...], 2, 3]

Jeff
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From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 11:53:05 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:53:05 -0400
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <UWt8d.3156$UP1.2886@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<UWt8d.3156$UP1.2886@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4162C361.6060807@cloudthunder.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
>
>> _Most_ object-oriented languages support object orientation via the
>> message passing paradigm. Python included.
>
>
> Translating the Smalltalk notation to Python -- what are
> the messages?  Is it that
>
>   x.y(z)
>
> means "send the __call__  (z)" message to the result of
> the "z __getattr__ 'y'" message?
>
>                 Andrew
>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com

In ObjC it would be send the message y with value z to object X
Say X doesn't know what to do with y
specified in X's code are instruction that tell it what object to pass 
the message y to...say...U for example
So the message has been passed and basically translates into U.y(z) or 
in ObjC [U y:z]


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct  8 20:43:36 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 00:43:36 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <4167128b$0$538$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<%5E9d.7075$UP1.6600@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4167128b$0$538$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <YuG9d.7186$UP1.961@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Grant Edwards:
> No, he explained exactly what he was trying to do, and it had
> nothing to do with encryption.  He wants to know if exactly one
> (1) of the strings is the empty string.

BTW, another way to get that is

if bool(str1) + bool(str2) == 1:
   print "one and only one of them was empty"


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 20 07:07:20 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:07:20 -0700
Subject: testing for uniquness in a large list
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.20.10.01.17.525999@lolmc.com>
References: <pan.2004.10.20.10.01.17.525999@lolmc.com>
Message-ID: <1098270440.25386.65.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-20 at 11:01 +0100, Lol McBride wrote:
> Hi All,
> I'm looking for some help in developing a way to test for the uniqueness
> of an item in a large list.To illustrate what I mean the code below is an
> indicator of what I want to do but I'm hoping for a faster way than the
> one shown.Basically,I have a list of 20 integers and I want to create
> another list of 200000 unique subsets of 12 integers from this list.WhatI
> have done here is to use the sample()function from the random module
> and then compare the result to every item in the ints list to check for
> uniqueness - as you can guess this takes an interminable amount of time to
> grind through.Can someone please enlighten me as to how I can do this and
> keep the amount of time to do it to a minimum?
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to read this and doubly so if you're able to
> help.
> Cheers,
> Lol McBride
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> from random import *
> #seq is the pool to choose from
> seq = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20]
> # this is how many times to choose a unique selection
> rlen = 200000
> counter = 100
> ints = [0]
> while 1:
>     # if this is the last value for rlen then we stop
>     if rlen == 0:
> 	break
>     intLen = len(ints)
>     cnt = 0
>     testVal = sample(seq,12)
>     testVal.sort()
>     if len(ints)>=counter:
> 	print len(ints)
> 	counter = counter+100
>     while 1:
> 	if ints.count(testVal)==1:
>             cnt = cnt+1
> 	    break
> 	intLen = intLen -1
> 	if intLen == 0:
> 	    break
> 	if cnt == 1:
> 		continue
> 	else:
> 	    ints.append(testVal)
> 	rlen = rlen -1
> 

Disregarding more efficient methods of generating your list (of which
I'm sure there are many), part of the "interminable time" is probably
taken up in the infinite loop you have ;)  Set rlen to a much smaller
number and you'll see that the program still never terminates.

You'll notice that:

ints = [0]
while 1:
    ...
    intLen = len(ints) # aka 1
    ...
    while 1:
        ...
        intLen = intLen - 1 # aka 0
        if intLen == 0: # always true
            break
        ...



Basically this means that nothing is ever appended to ints nor is rlen
ever decremented (and these are the tests by which the loops terminate).

I hear that Python 3000 will complete infinite loops in half the time
however ;)

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 30 03:48:34 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:48:34 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41832f8b.1140475326@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41834032.1144738587@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 06:07:23 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>Maybe something useful in this? Not very tested (and not terribly clear either ;-)
>
> >>> def number_in_base(x, N, digits):
> ...     return x==0 and digits[0] or '-'[:x<0] + ''.join([d for d in iter(
> ...                 lambda qr=[abs(x),0]:qr[0] and (
> ...                     qr.__setslice__(0,2,divmod(qr[0],N)) or digits[qr[1]])
> ...                 , 0)][::-1])
> ...

Alternatively, a little more compactly (though I feel guilty about the -1 ;-):

 >>> def number_in_base(x, N=10, digits='0123456789ABCDEF'):
 ...     return '-'[:x<0] + ''.join(list(iter(lambda qr=[abs(x),-1]: (qr[0] or qr[1]<0) and (
 ...         qr.__setslice__(0,2,divmod(qr[0],N)) or digits[qr[1]]), False))[::-1])
 ...
 >>> number_in_base(126,2,'01')
 '1111110'
 >>> number_in_base( 126, 8,'01234567')
 '176'
 >>> number_in_base(-126, 8,'01234567')
 '-176'
 >>> number_in_base(  -1, 2,'01234567')
 '-1'
 >>> number_in_base(   1, 2,'01234567')
 '1'
 >>> number_in_base(   0, 2,'01234567')
 '0'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jojoba12 at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  6 20:11:51 2004
From: jojoba12 at hotmail.com (jojoba)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 17:11:51 -0700
Subject: how to make toolbar icon flash
References: <2e7523c1.0410051945.73b553f5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2e7523c1.0410061611.21d01fc7@posting.google.com>

oops....i meant taskbar, not toolbar!

=)


From dellaq at ml1.net  Fri Oct 22 13:41:05 2004
From: dellaq at ml1.net (John Dell'Aquila)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 10:41:05 -0700
Subject: Trapping numeric operators
References: <9f314492.0410211852.2748741@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9f314492.0410220941.47ae4c03@posting.google.com>

The lambda wrapper does impose the overhead of an extra function call:
    classdict[magicName] = (
        lambda self, other=None, name=magicName, op=op, fn=fn:
        fn(self, other, name, op)
        )

I could eliminate that by stubbing out the closure and inserting the
code block directly into it:
    stub = lambda self, other=None, name=magicName, op=op: self
    stub.func_code = fn.func_code
    classdict[magicName] = stub

What do folks think -- useful trick or too squirrelly to countenance?


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Oct  8 15:42:49 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:42:49 -0500
Subject: UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa0 in
	position 10: ordinal not in range(128)
In-Reply-To: <95c29a5e.0410081125.18907895@posting.google.com>
References: <95c29a5e.0410071540.c27186a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4539.1097193254.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<95c29a5e.0410081125.18907895@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041008194249.GB22344@unpythonic.net>


On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 12:25:26PM -0700, Robin Siebler wrote:
> It's just a file path.  It doesn't *have* any non-ASCII chars in it to
> begin with!

Well, then, be sure to follow up when you find the real cause, because I
don't know of another reason that isn't along the lines I mentioned.

Jeff
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From drlinux at columbus.rr.com  Tue Oct 19 12:40:21 2004
From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:40:21 -0400
Subject: python preallocate some integers?
Message-ID: <200410191240.21118.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>


I seem to recall somewhere, possibly in the Python Essential Reference
(but unfortunately, books don't have a "find" function), that Python
preallocates and never destroys the first 100 integers. A minute of
google searching didn't help me so I tried some simple tests. Based on
these, it appears that only one copy of the integers -5 through 99 is
created.

Can someone please verify this for me or tell me what is done with
regard to this?

Thanks,
Dave





From listserver at tdw.net  Fri Oct  8 16:06:56 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 21:06:56 +0100
Subject: (solved)  smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
References: <00e701c4ad3f$b5e78390$ccbefea9@twilliams><01ee01c4ad65$396ec780$ccbefea9@twilliams>
	<20041008122130.EDA1.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <026401c4ad72$5c98c7d0$ccbefea9@twilliams>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at uci.edu>
>
> I hope you didn't change your own copy of smtplib, but just subclassed
> it. Changing a standard module is a good way to get bitten in the ass,
> especially during Python upgrades.

No,  I created a copy with a different name,  and import that into the
server prog instead. :-)

As to subclassing,  I took newbie fright and ran away from that.     It
would be my first sub-class,  though I do aim to have an attempt at it once
I get the modified smtplib into the production server and have a bit more
time.

> In regards to changing the standard library's smtplib permanently, you
> may or may not find support.  A good way to find out is to post here
> with the subject "proposed change to smtplib in standard library",
> describe your changes, and if it has support, head to
> sf.net/projects/python, list it as an RFE, and offer the code you have
> written yourself.

OK,  I may just do that in the future, once I'm sure I have something
generic that others would benefit from.

>
> P.S. Did you get my post with the multi-threaded output?  You get the
> entire stream of debug data for a particular smtp thread in a single
> string.

I did thanks,   I'm working my way through it,  as soon as I understand it
and get some  time  I'll give it a go too :-)




From breamoreboy at aol.com  Sun Oct 10 10:51:46 2004
From: breamoreboy at aol.com (Mark Lawrence)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 07:51:46 -0700
Subject: integer type conversion problem/question
References: <slrncmf2hc.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<slrncmgf4i.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<slrncmgfdd.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<slrncmgga6.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<1f2809cc.0410100238.a1de6f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c736723c.0410100651.5a455772@posting.google.com>

snip previous comments

> I'm sorry but this is off-topic in alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++.
> We do not discuss limbless reptiles in here. :)

Fear is an incredible emotion isn't it? :)

Mark Lawrence


From 1 at 2.3  Sun Oct 17 00:00:00 2004
From: 1 at 2.3 (User)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 04:00:00 GMT
Subject: How to get the size of a file?
References: <u0o3n09r9ak5cs0p8k88bbknf3nkqmaplu@4ax.com>
	<ETlcd.6046$gy1.379@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6er3n0dpjote3hc7rksh5858v3q2jeqn3q@4ax.com>

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 03:43:32 GMT, Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com>
wrote:

>User wrote:
>> Anyone have ideas which os command could be used to get the size of a
>> file without actually opening it?
>
> >>> os.path.getsize("/etc/passwd")
>722L
> >>>
>
>				Andrew
>				dalke at dalkescientific.com

That works.  Thanks.  I didn't think to look there for it.


From me at nospam.com  Tue Oct  5 15:55:04 2004
From: me at nospam.com (Lorin Hochstein)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:55:04 -0400
Subject: Retrieving the full path of Unix apps
Message-ID: <cjuu5v$2n7$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>

Hello all,

I'd like to retrieve the full path of an arbitrary program on a Unix 
system (e.g. gcc). What's the nicest way to do this? Currently I'm 
invoking the "which" program and parsing what it outputs to determine if 
the output looks like a path.

Here's what I'm currently doing. Is there a more elegant way to do this?


def fullpath(prog):
     """Compute the full path of a program"""
     s = os.popen('which ' + prog).readline()[:-1]
     # Confirm that the return value looks like a path
     r = re.compile('/(\w+/)*' + prog)
     if r.match(s) is not None:
         return s
     else:
         raise ValueError,s



Thanks,

Lorin


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct 30 12:15:41 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:15:41 +0200
Subject: Regex speed
In-Reply-To: <vvqdnVbQ0PJfJx7cRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<DiEgd.6304$kM.2345@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<2uh4g5F29ntaoU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<w4mdnc7RG8C9Dx7cRVn-gA@powergate.ca>
	<2uhjgnF29251cU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<c4udnf9tNaRXMx7cRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>
	<2uhpegF2bg2kdU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<vvqdnVbQ0PJfJx7cRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <2uht1dF2bphrrU1@uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
>> re1sub = re.compile("whatever").sub
>> 
>> There was a performance gain, but it was about 1/100th of the speed
>> difference.
> 
> The above line just led me to realize that you are
> doing everything at "module level" instead of inside
> a function.  That means all your variables are global,
> instead of local, which means all variable lookups
> are being done in a dictionary rather than taking
> advantage of the significant optimization provided by
> the use of locals (which use simple indexing operations).
> 
> Try sticking everything, including the above line
> inside a def main() and call that at the end, for
> comparison.

Done. The results are the following:

Original:                       2,579 sec
sub method aliased to variable: 2,542 sec
everything stuffed in function: 2,422 sec

Without regex substitution:     0,523 sec
(but _with_ re.compile calls,
 so this can't be the problem)

Perl version:                   0,811 sec
Perl version without regexes:   0,568 sec

Python version using find():    0,870 sec

(all values are averages)

So you're right, speed is getting better.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From lonetwin at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 06:34:13 2004
From: lonetwin at gmail.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:04:13 +0530
Subject: globally available objects
Message-ID: <5a309bd304102903342ca264f2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi list,
      I speak with ignorance but I'd like to know if something like
this is even possible:
I would like to create an object while importing a module only the
first time it get's imported. I wonder imports already work in this
manner. For example, in a module (say global_objs.py) I would have:

import mylogger
import error_hdlr

my_log_obj = mylogger.init_log()  # This may involve some file I/O
my_err_obj = myerror_hdlr.init() # Thiis also might involve some file I/O

now, at run time, would mylogger.init_log() be called each for each
import of global_objs.py ?? I feel it would. Assuming this is correct,
how do I ensure that once created, the objects in global_objs.py do
not get recreated. ....maybe I need to redefine __import__ or
__getattr__ ?? If yes, how do I know from within such functions
whether the objects have been created ??

ehe ...am I making sense to anyone else here ??

Regards
Steve


From Virus_Research at avertlabs.com  Wed Oct 20 07:17:32 2004
From: Virus_Research at avertlabs.com (Virus Research)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:17:32 -0700
Subject: 1456687 - test
Message-ID: <C31CC9E29153D41182CB00D0B78F69610B1CAAD2@AVERT-EXCHANGE1>

AVERT Labs - Beaverton

Current Scan Engine Version:4.3.20

Current DAT Version:4399

Thank you for your submission.


Analysis ID: 1456687

File Name            Findings                       Detection
Type         Extra
--------------------|------------------------------|------------------------
----|------------|-----
message.pif         |current detection             |w32/lovgate.x at mm
|Virus       |no   

current detection [message.pif]


   The file received is infected and can be detected and removed with our
current DAT     
files and engine. It is recommended that you update your DAT and engine
files and scan 
your computer again. If you are not seeing this with the product you are
using, please 
speak with technical support so that they can help you determine the cause
of this     
discrepancy.


To find detailed information about viruses and other malware, please review
AVERT?s    
Virus Information Library:


http://vil.mcafeesecurity.com


In order to get the fastest possible response, you may wish to submit future

virus-samples to:


https://www.webimmune.net/default.asp


In most cases it can respond almost instantly with a solution. This may also
be the    
best option if you are having a problem with gateway scanners stripping your
sample    
submission.


If you believe your computer is infected, but are unsure which files should
be         
submitted to AVERT for review, please visit:


http://vil.mcafeesecurity.com/vil/submit-sample.asp


For other virus-related information, please review the AVERT homepage at:


http://www.avertlabs.com


Support ?


Virus Research accepts file-samples for analysis and possible inclusion into
AV        
signature DAT sets. We are also prepared to answer general virus questions.
All        
product-related questions and comments can be addressed through technical
support and  
customer service, including:


* Product installation and update questions

* Product usage questions

* Specific operating system/version questions

* Assistance with detection and cleaning or removal of viruses or trojans


Use the following link to update your DAT and scan engine to the most
current version: 

http://www.mcafeesecurity.com/us/downloads/updates/


Use the following links to reach online technical support for McAfee
products -        

Corporate Customers:


http://www.mcafeesecurity.com/us/support/


Single User/Retail Customers:


http://www.mcafeehelp.com


Note ?


Due to the prevalence of network gateway AV products, it is important that
all         
submissions be zipped and the zip file password-protected (password -
infected). Some  
products will reject an email that contains a virus that is not sent in this
way. In   
addition, often we receive a file that appears not to have been infected, to
find      
later that the file was infected when it left the sender, and was cleaned
somewhere    
along the line.


Regards,




McAfee AVERT tm

A division of McAfee, Inc



From donnal at donnal.net  Fri Oct 15 16:16:16 2004
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:16:16 -0500
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
In-Reply-To: <ckovfd$411$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <ckovfd$411$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ckpb6h$49d$1@sea.gmane.org>


Thanks to all who replied. I have not yet decided what I am going to do 
here exactly, but your ideas have been helpful.

Regards,
Donnal Walter




From garth.grimm at hp.com  Fri Oct 29 18:07:20 2004
From: garth.grimm at hp.com (Grimm, Garth)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:07:20 -0700
Subject: DNS caching in python2.2
Message-ID: <FD66B7FFB9EAE94D810A81EFCF83F5C402306154@cacexc05.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Hello,

If I write a script that makes successive HTTP requests, using newly
instantiated objects from urllib for each request, is there any reason
to believe that the DNS resolution from the first call will be cached
and used for the second call?

Thanks

Garth Grimm
IMS Common Services (Search Program)
Technical Lead
(650)857-7305 


From gandreas at no.reply  Tue Oct  5 10:34:17 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:34:17 -0500
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162142c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4294.1096947568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162185c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4296.1096948074.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41621efc$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <gandreas-B6141A.09340205102004@news.visi.com>

In article <41621efc$0$59533$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>,
 Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:

> On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
> 
> >>>>>Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following 
> >>>>>support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*
> >>>>>
> >>>>Wow. Rude much?
> >>>>
> >>>>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
> >>>>http://www.python.org/
> >>>>
> >>>What does "Rude much" mean?
> >>
> >>You've _got_ to be kidding...
> >
> > I don't think that that is proper english.
> 
> Oh. My. Gaawwwd!
> 
> Which one, the "Rude much?" crack or the "You've got to be
> kidding..." crack?  The latter isn't all that improper
> (especially not for Usenet).  The former is colloqial US
> English.  More specifically it's "Valley Speak" -- made popular
> outside "The Valley" by movies like "Valley Girl", "Mall Rats",
> "Heathers", and just about any John Hughes movie (especially
> Sixteen Candles).  The first two are crap, but "Heathers" is a
> good movie, and I still like "Sixteen Candles".

"Mall Rats" is set in New Jersey (part of the "Jersey Trilogy"), though 
filmed in Minnesota, and is pretty much completely free of "Valley 
Speak", but filled with "Jersey speak" (or whatever it would be called).

Heathers, however, is definitely a great movie... (and quite possibly 
does include the line "Rude much?").


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct  4 14:27:22 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:27:22 -0500
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
In-Reply-To: <FXf8d.2597$M05.1234@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
	<FXf8d.2597$M05.1234@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20041004182722.GB24535@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 05:41:57PM +0000, Andrew Dalke wrote:
> One thought is that the actual quote identifier doesn't need
> to be shown.  To start the quote, press '.  The computer
> inserts '' and puts the cursor so the next character is
> in between the two quotes.  Everything between those two
> characters is treated as a string.  To stop the quote,
> right arrow past the final quote or, in THE/HUMANE style,
> LEAP to it.

... but if an editor is doing something fancy for display, the
representation of the string as bytes-in-a-file could include
backslashes, while the version onscreen would be unbackslashed and
surrounded by "special quotes"---something that can be drawn but not
typed.  For instance, underlined quote marks, though you *can* type
those as unicode combining characters, I guess.  Green quotes?  Nope,
color blindness is a problem here.  Flashing quote marks it is.  Unless
unicode has a COMBINING 1.27HZ FLASH code point I don't know about)

Jeff
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From joewong at mango.cc  Fri Oct  8 02:03:21 2004
From: joewong at mango.cc (Joe Wong)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:03:21 +0800
Subject: threads or processes?
Message-ID: <048001c4acfc$84b92a00$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>

Hi, I have a process with 5 threads. Each thread is a close loop doing the same operation. What is the difference between running 5 threads and 5 processes in this case? The program is to be run on a 1 Xeon CPU with Hyper-threading enabled system. It is running on a 2.4.20 kernel.

Regards,

- Joe


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.773 / Virus Database: 520 - Release Date: 2004/10/6
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From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Tue Oct 12 09:05:03 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:05:03 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<1glbyrn.4jt08j144wg1dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<b644658b.0410120040.723f73a1@posting.google.com>
	<1gljja1.1nxj82c1a25c1bN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416bd688$0$21236$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>


"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:1gljja1.1nxj82c1a25c1bN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> Nicolas Lehuen <nicolas at lehuen.com> wrote:
> 
> > problem was the same ; people expected mod_python to run in a
> > multi-process context, not a multi-threaded context (I guess this is
> > due to a Linux-centered mindset, forgetting about BSD, MacosX or Win32
> > OSes). When I asked questions and pointed problem, the answer was 'Duh
> > - use Linux with the forking MPM, not Windows with the threading MPM'.
> 
> Sorry, I don't get your point.  Sure, Windows makes process creation
> hideously expensive and has no forking.  But all kinds of BSD, including
> MacOSX, are just great at forking.  Why is a preference for multiple
> processes over threads "forgetting about BSD, MacOSX", or any other
> flavour of Unix for that matter?

Because when you have multithreaded programs, you can easily share objects between different threads, provided you carefully implement them. On the web framework I wrote, this means sharing and reusing the same DB connection pool, template cache, other caches and so on. This means a reduced memory footprint and increased performance. In a multi-process environment, you have to instantiate as many connections, caches, templates etc. that you have processes. This is a waste of time and memory.

BTW [shameless plug] here is the cookbook recipe I wrote about thread-safe caching.

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/302997
 
> > Well, this is not going to take us anywhere, especially with all the
> > multicore CPUs coming.
> 
> Again, I don't get it.  Why would multicore CPUs be any worse than
> current multi-CPU machines at multiple processes, and forking?

Obviously they won't be any worse. Well, to be precise, it still depends on the OS, because the scheduler must know the difference between 2 processors and a 2-core processor to efficiently balance the work, but anyway.

What I meant is that right now I'm writing this on a desktop PC with hyperthreading. This means that even on a desktop PC you can benefit from having multithreaded (or multi-processed) applications. With multicore or multiprocessor machines being more and more current, the pressure to have proper threading support in Python will grow and grow.

Regards,

Nicolas


From danperl at rogers.com  Fri Oct  8 08:56:26 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:56:26 -0400
Subject: GUI wrapper for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython 
References: <mailman.4573.1097237841.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <caydnVL1k8gZE_vcRVn-iA@rogers.com>

It sounds like a great idea.  I assume that this is a wrapper around the 
objects that are common in all of those GUI libraries.  Can you post a list 
of the objects that you support in Twilight?  It can be just the list from 
Twilight (with short descriptions), without the equivalents in all the 3 
libraries.

I have to point out though that there seems to be a bug from what is shown 
in the screenshot.  The titles of the windows don't match the radio buttons 
on the right side.  Or just clicking one of those buttons doesn't trigger 
the change and you have to click also on 'Run it!'?

Dan

"Stelios Xanthakis" <sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr> wrote in message 
news:mailman.4573.1097237841.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Hi.
>
> I'd like to announce the availability of a high-level GUI wrapper
> for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython.
>
> Check out the screenshot at
>
>   http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/twgui/
>
> I wanted to write a *simple* app with a GUI that didn't look as horrible
> as Tk and without having to ask from the users to install this or that.
> All three (pygtk, pyqt and wxpython) have serious drawbacks for one to
> invest their time learning them.
>
> Any feedback or help from toolkit gurus is most welcome.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stelios
>
>
> 




From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  6 23:10:04 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 20:10:04 -0700
Subject: GUI to browse and select images
References: <1096715845.204540.281600@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
	<ucOdndmICKmPePzcRVn-rg@adelphia.com>
	<1096982750.544401.74040@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
	<18282ecb.0410051925.32df7a37@posting.google.com>
	<1097073729.888027.108140@k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0410061910.7dc19102@posting.google.com>

Kent, 
    Sorry for the delay. I wrote you a nice reply and then killed it
with an accidental click . Oh well.....
wxPython is a c++ based framework (wxWidgets) with many backends.
The best way to learn it is to run the demo and play with the code.
Got to 'http://www.wxPython.org' and download the latest build and be
sure to grab the demo (if you are on windows it is built into the
distro).
Install it and run the demo. It is an easy install.
The docs are based on c++ but they are easy to use and are on the net
also.
wxHtmlWindow supports a few protocols and can load in memory files.
There are many events exposed by wxWidgets and wxHtmlWindow has many
available.
Decide on functionality and set handlers for those events
(LeftClickUp,RightClickDown, etc..)You should be able to do anything
want with it.
But, I have been wrong before :) 
"ktenney at gmail.com" <ktenney at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<1097073729.888027.108140 at k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com>...
> M.E.,
> 
> Good ideas.
> 
> I'm using PIL, it's great, and getting better.
> I don't know anything about wxPython other than it comes
> highly recommended.
> 
> I really like the html based approach.
> 
> Could you give me (or point me to) a brief description of how
> wxHTMLWindow works?
> 
> Does it provide for selecting multiple items? (required for this app)
> Thanks,
> Kent


From franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at  Thu Oct 21 07:36:46 2004
From: franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:36:46 +0200
Subject: excluding search string in regular expressions
Message-ID: <pc7fn0l6i0nso8onn0kh6gvt6o3sug4sd0@4ax.com>

Hello,

Following Problem:

find only occurances, where in the line are'::' characters and
the former line is not equal '**/'

so 2) and 3) should be found and 1) not.

1)
"""
**/
void C::B
"""

2)
"""

void C::B
"""

3)
"""
*/
void C::B
"""

I tried something
"\*\*/\n.*::"

But this is the opposite.

So my question is: how can I exclude a pattern?

single characters with [^ab] but I need not(ab)

not_this_brace_pattern(\*\*/\n).*::

thank you in advance,
-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From matt.torment at gmail.com  Sun Oct 17 01:13:33 2004
From: matt.torment at gmail.com (Matthew K Jensen)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 22:13:33 -0700
Subject: detecting enabled network interfaces in win32
Message-ID: <a8dfce8c.0410162113.545a74bb@posting.google.com>

In one of my "because I can" projects, I want to be able to see the
enabled network interfaces on a machine. I have no clue as to how to
do this. Any suggestions?


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 14 08:22:24 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:22:24 -0400
Subject: read a files particular line
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4931.1097746923.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cklgrm$6g3$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4931.1097746923.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <DNmdnVRU3aMd8vPcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Krist?f Str?bl wrote (top-posting, but I fixed it.  You're welcome.):
 > Frank Grellert wrote:
 >> does anybody have an idea how to read a particular line of a file
 >> like awk's  awk '{if( NR==12) print $0}' filename (reads lineno 12 of
 >> filename)
 >
> If the file is not too big use:
> 
> file("filename").readlines()[11]

And if the file is "too big", there's always iterators:

print itertools.islice(open('tempx.txt'), 11, 12).next()

A little more complicated, but avoids reading the entire file
into memory.

-Peter


From g.tagliarettiNO at SPAMparafernalia.org  Sun Oct 24 04:31:50 2004
From: g.tagliarettiNO at SPAMparafernalia.org (Gian Mario Tagliaretti)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:31:50 GMT
Subject: Eric3 3.5 crashes on file save
References: <wEEed.466$b%5.447@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <WLJed.192596$35.9209119@news4.tin.it>

Kevin Walzer wrote:

> Eric3, the PyQt IDE, seems to be buggy on Mac OS X. I'm running the
> latest versions of PyQt, Qt, SIP, QScintilla, etc., but the new version
> of Eric (3.5), which was just released this month, crashes whenever I
> try to save a file. The previous version, 3.4.2, seems more stable.
> Anyone else encounter crashes with the new version of Eric, whether it's
> on OS X or another system?
> 

I'm using the new release on my gentoo box and everything works fine.
These are my installed versions:

[ebuild     U ] dev-python/qscintilla-1.61 [1.60] 
[ebuild     U ] dev-python/PyQt-3.13 [3.12] 
[ebuild     U ] dev-python/sip-4.1.1 [4.0.1] 
[ebuild     U ] x11-libs/qt-3.3.3-r1 [3.3.3] 
[ebuild   R   ] dev-util/eric-3.5.0  

If you are not familiar with gentoo, the installed ones are the ones in the
square brackets, hope it helps.

cheers
GMario


From dw at botanicus.net  Sat Oct 23 07:23:40 2004
From: dw at botanicus.net (David Wilson)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:23:40 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <417A3F3C.2030703@botanicus.net>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     * Both attribute-style and dictionary-style access supported

Can someone please enlighten me as to why this is a good idea? The abuse 
of __getitem__ or __getattr__ (IMHO) should only occur inside 
transparent object proxies and suchlike -- I see no relation between 
(key, value) mapping and attributes.

I also have trouble with the __getitem__ idea, although I can see at 
least that this might make sense if you consider your configuration some 
sort of dictionary or array. In any case, I quote from 'import this': 
'There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.'

I see two ways to do it here. :)


>     * Typeless - everything's a string.  Python has plenty of ways to
>     convert strings to other types of objects.

Finally, another believer. :)


> I wrote it more as an exercise and to satisfy myself that to deal with more
> general config structures than Windows INI files supports you don't have to
> fall into the XML tarpit.  I suspect it's not more featureful than Michael
> Chermside's example implementation though it's somewhat shorter.

IMHO you are blurring the lines between complex data storage and simple 
INI files. Microsoft's history here was to move to the Windows registry 
- a concept that could be easily represented in the modern age as an XML 
database.

Again, I'll raise the point that this work is being done under the false 
banner of 'ConfigParser' -- this is the only reason I have come out of 
idleness, it has nothing to do with ConfigParser. It is a new concept 
entirely. Could we reserve the name 'ConfigParser' for configuration 
parsers that at least in function or form resemble the original, like 
any sane developers should.

If you agree with me on the above, then again I think you should first 
hammer out exactly what you *need* your new configuration system to 
accomplish, and then perhaps agree on an unambiguous name for it.

In the meantime, AFAICS the only implementation that deserves the name 
'ConfigParser' so far is my own -- and I only wrote it to prove this point.

As per a recent popularly read weblog entry written by A.M.K., the 
standard library is aged and disorganised. The thought of a replacement 
ConfigParser[2] module that embodies an entirely different configuration 
storage concept doesn't sound like it is going to help this situation much.

I think the way forward here is to define the goals of a new 
configuration framework that supports sillyness like magical attribute 
access and multiple backends (with a first backend being an XML DB or 
pickle or similar), then additional 'mix in' features such as schemas, 
then after we have a featurelist, open the shootout again.

Perhaps a PEP or SIG could be opened on the topic, and development could 
commence in a sane fashion.

In the meantime, all I'm seeing is different people's ideas of cool 
behaviour and their own ideas on how they'd like to see the standard 
configuration system work.

Thanks,


David.

PS: Sorry if this seems bitchy in any way, it's just I am genuinely 
concerned for the purity of my popularly used darling stdlib 
ConfigParser module. :)


From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Tue Oct 12 10:59:17 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:59:17 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<1glbyrn.4jt08j144wg1dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<b644658b.0410120040.723f73a1@posting.google.com>
	<1gljja1.1nxj82c1a25c1bN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416bd688$0$21236$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<1gljufr.9d1d5319us58iN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416bf145$0$9373$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>


"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:1gljufr.9d1d5319us58iN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> Nicolas Lehuen <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote:
> 
> > "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message de
> news:1gljja1.1nxj82c1a25c1bN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> > > Nicolas Lehuen <nicolas at lehuen.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > problem was the same ; people expected mod_python to run in a
> > > > multi-process context, not a multi-threaded context (I guess this is
> > > > due to a Linux-centered mindset, forgetting about BSD, MacosX or Win32
> > > > OSes). When I asked questions and pointed problem, the answer was 'Duh
> > > > - use Linux with the forking MPM, not Windows with the threading MPM'.
> > > 
> > > Sorry, I don't get your point.  Sure, Windows makes process creation
> > > hideously expensive and has no forking.  But all kinds of BSD, including
> > > MacOSX, are just great at forking.  Why is a preference for multiple
> > > processes over threads "forgetting about BSD, MacOSX", or any other
> > > flavour of Unix for that matter?
> > 
> > Because when you have multithreaded programs, you can easily share objects
> between different threads, provided you carefully implement them. On the
> web framework I wrote, this means sharing and reusing the same DB
> connection pool, template cache, other caches and so on. This means a
> reduced memory footprint and increased performance. In a multi-process
> environment, you have to instantiate as many connections, caches,
> templates etc. that you have processes. This is a waste of time and
> memory.
> 
> I'm not particularly interested in debating the pros and cons of threads
> vs processes, right now, but in getting a clarification of your original
> assertion which I _still_ don't get.  It's still quoted up there, so
> please DO clarify: how would "a Linux-centered mindset forgetting about
> BSD" (and MacOSX is a BSD in all that matters in this context, I'd say)
> bias one against multi-threading or towards multi-processing?  In what
> ways are you claiming that Unix-like systems with BSD legacy are
> inferior in multi-processing, or superior in multi-threading, to ones
> with Linux kernels?  I think I understand both families decently well
> and yet I _still_ don't understand whence this claim is coming.  (Forget
> the red herring of Win32 -- nobody's disputing that _their_ process
> spawning is a horror of inefficiency -- let's focus about Unixen, since
> you did see fit to mention them so explicitly contrasted, hm?!).

Wow, I don't want to launch any OS flame war there. My point is just that I have noticed that the vast majority of people running mod_python are running it on Apache 2 on Linux with the forking MPM. Hence, multi-threading problems that you DO encounter if you use the threading MPM are often dismissed because, hey, everybody uses the forking MPM in which a single thread handles all the requests it is given by the parent process. Now, when I discussed about this problem on the mod_python mailing list, I had some echo from people who would like to use the multithreading MPM under MacOS X (which is a BSD indeed). Just to say that people running Apache 2 on Win32 are not the only ones interested.

To sum up : people running mod_python under Linux don't have any multithreading issues. They represent 95% of mod_python's market (pure guess). So the multithreading issues have not many chances of being fixed soon. That is why I said that a "Linux-centered mindset forgetting [other OSes, none in particular]" is hindering the bugfix process.
 
> _Then_, once that point is cleared, we may (e.g.) debate how the newest
> Linux VM development (presumably coming in 2.6.9) may make mmap quite as
> fast as sharing memory among threads (which, I gather from hearsay only,
> is essentially the case today already... but _only_ for machines with no
> more than 2GB, 3GB tops of physical memory being so shared -- the claim
> is that the newest developments will let you have upwards of 256 GB of
> physical memory shares with similar efficiency, by doing away with the
> current pagetables overhead of mmap), and what (if anything) is there in
> BSD-ish kernels to match that accomplishments.  But until you clarify
> that (to me) strange and confusing assertion, to help me understand what
> point you were making there (and nothing in this "answer" of yours is at
> all addressing my doubts and my very specific question about it!), I see
> little point in trying to delve into such exoterica.

I do hope the point above is cleared.

Now, you propose to share objects between Python VMs using shared memory. Why not, if it is correctly implemented (I've seen it done in Gemstone for Java, IIRC), I'd be as happy with this as I am when sharing objects between threads. The trouble is that you'll have exactly the same problems, if not more. You'll have to implement the same locking primitives. You'll have to make sure that all the stdlib and extensions are ready to support objects that are shared this way. All the trouble we have now with multiple threads, you'll have with multiple processes. And you may have so big portability issues. I don't see any benefit vs the work already done, even if tiny, on the multithreading support.

> 
> > BTW [shameless plug] here is the cookbook recipe I wrote about thread-safe
> caching.
> > 
> > http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/302997
> 
> I do not see any relevance of that recipe (with which I'm quite
> familiar, since I'm preparing the 2nd Edition of the Cookbook) to your
> assertion with Linux on one side, and BSD derivatives grouped with
> Windows on the other, quoted, questioned and never clarified above.

Well, that was a shameless plug... But this recipe allows you to build, for example, module caches that can safely be shared between threads, with minimum locking. I encountered a bug in mod_python on the subject, which I fixed using it, so I though it might be illustrative.

> > > Again, I don't get it.  Why would multicore CPUs be any worse than
> > > current multi-CPU machines at multiple processes, and forking?
> > 
> > Obviously they won't be any worse. Well, to be precise, it still depends
> on the OS, because the scheduler must know the difference between 2
> processors and a 2-core processor to efficiently balance the work, but
> anyway.
> 
> As far as I know there is no special support in current kernels for
> multi-core CPUs as differentiated from multiple CPUs sharing external
> buses... (nor even yet, unless I'm mistaken, for such fundamental
> novelties as HyperTransport, aka DirectConnect, which _has_ been around
> for quite a while now -- and points to a completely different paradigm
> than shared memory as being potentially much-faster IPC... bandwidths of
> over 10 gigabytes/second, which poor overworked memory subsystems might
> well have some trouble reaching... how one would exploit hypertransport
> within multiple threads of a process, programmed on the basis of sharing
> memory, I dunno -- using it between separate processes which exchange
> messages appears conceptually simpler).  Anyway, again to the limited
> amount of my current knowledge, this holds just as much for multiple
> threads as for multiple processes, no?

I am way beyond my competences here, but I've read some articles about hyperthreading-aware schedulers (in WinXP, Win2003, and patches for Linux). The idea is that on multi-core CPUs, threads from the same process should be ran on the same core for maximum cache efficiency, whereas different processes can freely run on different cores. I've read that you can effectively have worse performances on multicore CPUs if the kernel scheduler does not know about HT. I cannot find the articles again but there are a bunch referenced on Google :

http://www.google.com/search?q=hyperthread+scheduler

But apart from this caveat, yes, multi-threads and multi-processes application equally benefit from multi-core CPUs.
 
>  
> > What I meant is that right now I'm writing this on a desktop PC with
> hyperthreading. This means that even on a desktop PC you can benefit
> from having multithreaded (or multi-processed) applications.
> 
> I'm writing this on my laptop (uniprocessor, no quirks), because I'm on
> a trip, but at home I do have a dual-processor desktop (actually a
> minitower, but many powerful 'desktops' are that way), and it's a
> year-old model (and Apple was making dual processors for years before
> the one I own, though with 32-bit 'G4' chips rather than 64-bit 'G5'
> ones they're using now).  So this is hardly news: I can run make on a
> substantial software system much faster with a -j switch to let it spawn
> multiple jobs (processes).
> 
> > With multicore or multiprocessor machines being more and more current, the
> pressure to have proper threading support in Python will grow and grow.
> 
> The pressure has been growing for a while and I concur it will keep
> growing, particularly since the OS by far most widespread on desktops
> has such horrible features for multiple-process spawning and control.
> But, again, before we go on to debate this, I would really appreciate it
> if you clarified your previous assertions, to help me understand why you
> believe that BSD derivatives, including Mac OS X, are to be grouped on
> the same side as Windows, while only Linux would favour processes over
> threads -- when, to _me_, it seems so obvious that the reasonable
> grouping is with all Unix-like systems on one side, Win on the other.
> You either know something I don't, about the internals of these systems,
> and it appears so obvious to you that you're not even explaining it now
> that I have so specifically requested you to explain; or there is
> something else going on that I really do not understand.

I hope it has been cleared : it's just that some people using MacOS X seemed as interested as me in having a decent multi-threading support in mod_python. If more people used a multi-threading MPM on Linux, their reaction would be the same. I'm really not religious about OSes, no offence meant.

Best regards,

Nicolas



From francisl at aei.ca  Sat Oct 16 11:38:12 2004
From: francisl at aei.ca (Francis Lavoie)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:38:12 -0400
Subject: windows services
Message-ID: <41714064.8060609@aei.ca>

Is it possible to restart windows services? (remotely and locally)

Because I have a little script that retreive the LastWaitTimeout key of 
the automatic update, delete that key if it out schedule for our 
production needs. But still the service need to be restarded if I want 
that key to be reset, when Win Update will resynchronize with the sus 
server for new update.

Thankx



From jerf at jerf.org  Fri Oct  1 19:25:00 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 23:25:00 GMT
Subject: Close a socket externally
References: <Y9l7d.262597$bp1.228320@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.03.06.01.19.21504@jerf.org>

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:49:28 +0000, drs wrote:
> I have a program which opens a socket server in a thread.  I need for the
> server to listen on the socket for a certain amount of time (say, ten
> seconds or so) and then close it, and am wondering if there is a good way to
> close the socket other than sending it a message from another thread to
> close itself.  That is, I am looking for a way to forcably kill a socket
> from a second thread, not to send it a message to kill itself.

Speaking generally, I would be surprised if this existed, because it would
basically be a security hole. Not quite literally, but it definitely feels
wrong.

The only way to do it that I can think of is for your program to interpose
itself and act as a proxy between the other two. Then you can close it the
*two* sockets anytime you want, for any reason. You could also separate
the proxy part from the control part by leaving a control port open on the
proxy. This has obvious issues, notably bandwidth, but short of major
kernel patching I think this is your choice.

Or, more likely, your architecture needs a bit of restructuring.

I might be wrong, but if I am, I register my surprise in advance. Also, it
is going to be very, very platform specific and you don't mention what
platform you are on.




From LBorman at sjm.com  Tue Oct 26 12:48:27 2004
From: LBorman at sjm.com (Borman, Linda E)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:48:27 -0500
Subject: ZeroDivisionError: float division (baby steps)
Message-ID: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19CC2@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>

Hi , Im new to Python can you help.
Trying to create a program that  I can entered  10 random numbers and get an
average at the end of a for loop. 
Stumped
 
Linda Borman


 


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From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Oct  1 08:42:21 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 06:42:21 -0600
Subject: Python libraries for playing MP3 files
In-Reply-To: <415D4516.4010207@euskalnet.net>
References: <415D4516.4010207@euskalnet.net>
Message-ID: <415D50AD.1050509@pythonapocrypha.com>

I?igo wrote:
> Hello everybody:
>    I am newbie in python. I am searching libraries in python capable of 
> playing MP3/OGG files, stopping and so on. I don't know if that is 
> possible using python.

Hi I?igo,

Try looking at pygame's mixer_music module at www.pygame.org - it's a Python 
interface to SDL_mixer (which can support MP3/OGG/etc).

-Dave


From nwagner at mecha.uni-stuttgart.de  Fri Oct 22 10:13:44 2004
From: nwagner at mecha.uni-stuttgart.de (Nils Wagner)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:13:44 +0200
Subject: C binding to transfer matrices from C to Python and from Python to
 C 
Message-ID: <41791598.4000806@mecha.uni-stuttgart.de>

Hi all,

Has someone written a C binding to transfer matrices from C to Python 
and vice versa ?

Any pointer would be appreciated.

  Nils



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct  7 11:36:40 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:36:40 -0700
Subject: 'local' var in module
In-Reply-To: <ck3lq0$egb$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
References: <ck3lq0$egb$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <20041007083416.ED49.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> lobingera at sibyl: cat flip.py
> import random
> 
> paras = { 'flength' : 22,
>            'cset' : 'abcdefghijkl' }
> rstate = 1
> 
> def f():
>     random.seed(rstate)
>     s = list()
> 
>     for i in range(paras['flength']):
>        s.append(random.choice(paras['cset']))
> 
>     return "".join(s)

When you are only reading things, Python will pull variables from the
local or global scope as necessary.


> def g():
>     random.seed(rstate)
>     s = list()
> 
>     for i in range(paras['flength']):
>        s.append(random.choice(paras['cset']))
> 
>     rstate = random.getseed()
>     return "".join(s)

If you try to write to a variable in a scope, Python believes that the
variable is local to this scope, so doesn't attempt to fetch it from
globals, and will only write to the local copy.

That is, unless you include the 'global' keyword.  Add:
    global rstate
to g() and watch everything work the way you expect.

 - Josiah



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 03:17:15 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:17:15 +0200
Subject: proposals for having more fun with map
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410091223580.27361-100000@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <1glikpk.31i0shibdrcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> wrote:
   ...
> details = {
>       "surnname": "Cleese",
>       "firstname": "John",
>       "dob": 19391027,
>       "birthplace": "Weston-super-Mare",
>       "height: 1.95,
>       "favourite work": "the documentary about lemurs"
> }
> template = ("firstname", "surname", "height")
> info = map(details, template)

Use map(details.get, template) and you can get this today.  No reason to
change dicts for this purpose.

> okay, so maybe you're not convinced, but this is something i find myself
> wanting to do all the time, so i either end up throwing lambdas all over
> the place to glue the dicts into map, or writing a little helper function
> like so:
> 
> def functor(dict):
>       return lambda arg: dict[arg]
> 
> this isn't hard, of course, but it's the sort of thing that ought to be
> done once and only once.

It is -- you simply need the bound method somedict.get (in 2.4 it might
be slightly faster to call somedict.__getitem__, I think in 2.3
somedict.get is faster and in any case it _is_ nicer to type!-).


> however, i do wonder if sequences could have a keys method, which would
> look like:
> 
> def keys(self):
>       return range(len(self))
> 
> so they look like mappings of a range of the natural numbers. the problem
> with that is that the sequence and mapping versions of __iter__ are
> incompatible. oh well.

Yep, not worth doing.


> secondly, map should work on dicts as well as sequences. map has semantics
> that look like this:
> 
> map(fn, x)[i] = fn(x[i])
> 
> at the moment, x has to be a sequence; i'd like to allow x to be a
> mapping. the implementation is a doddle:

Nope, a dict is accepted as x today:

>>> d=dict(a=23,b=42,c=69)
>>> map(lambda x:x, d)
['a', 'c', 'b']
>>> 

This cannot be changed w/o backwards incompatibilities (so, propose it
for Python 3000 -- won't get in before then, as it would break some
current, perfectly correct programs).


> anyway, that's it. am i bonkers, or does any of that sound like a good
> idea?

Why should the two be mutually incompatible?-)

Seriously: some of your ideas may have merit but you should realize no
changes that break currently working programs are gonna get in until 3.0
at the earliest, and even in 3.0 the focus will be on simplification.
If you're keep on your backwards-incompatible proposals you might be
luckier with some of the various python-like languages which are
springing up _without_ the backwards compatibility requirements of
Python, such as bobo or Prothon.  For Python itself, you must deal with
the additional burden of backwards compatibility on top of everything...


Alex


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Oct 26 09:54:07 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:54:07 +0200
Subject: CGIHTTPServer always return 200, no redirects (302) possible
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.26.13.54.03.156007@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi,

The CGIHTTPServer returns

self.send_response(200, "Script output follows")

before it starts the cgi process. This means
you cannot set the status header to 302 for
a redirect.

I don't see a easy and portable way to fix this.

CGIHTTPServer.py:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Lib/CGIHTTPServer.py?rev=1.36&view=auto

Maybe a little note in the docs would save some
people 30-60 minutes of their sparetime.

 Thomas



From noone at here.com  Sun Oct  3 21:41:46 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 02:41:46 +0100
Subject: append to  items  depending on prior item
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cjq9l0$kcv$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi,

Strange. I was reading this via wanado news and even now, hours after Alex's
post it hasn't shown up. I only discovered this by re - searching google and
finding the post on dbforums.

Anyway, I've read it now. Thanks Alex. Sorry, I must have been to quick to
post and didn't check what I'd typed. Of course they're all to be appended
using numbers.

M




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Oct 29 11:22:29 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:22:29 -0500
Subject: Question about PyList
In-Reply-To: <J_sgd.13543$ta5.6964@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <J_sgd.13543$ta5.6964@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20041029152228.GA14983@unpythonic.net>

There's always PyObject_CallMethod.  I believe the code would look
something like
    PyObject *o = ...;
    PyObject *l = ...;
    PyObject *r = PyObject_CallMethodObjArgs(l, "extend", o, NULL);
or
    PyObject *l = ...;
    PyObject *o = PyObject_CallMethod(l, "pop", NULL);

Jeff
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From http  Sun Oct 17 22:40:48 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 17 Oct 2004 19:40:48 -0700
Subject: md5 and large files
References: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<4172a5f6$0$28202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4172AA52.9030606@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7xis98u4sv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Brad Tilley <rtilley at vt.edu> writes:
> I would like to verify that the files are not corrupt so what's the
> most efficient way to calculate md5 sums on 4GB files?

What kind of corruption are you talking about?  The best way is just
to run md5 over the old file.  You could use either the external
md5sum command, or use Python's md5 module.  You'd use the md5.update
operation to feed the file through md5 a few kbytes at a time, and
then md5.digest or md5.hexdigest at the end to get the checksum.  You
don't need to read the whole file into memory at once or anything like
that.


From ville at spammers.com  Tue Oct  5 07:29:49 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 14:29:49 +0300
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
References: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
	<fOu8d.25552$H11.796740@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <du78yalh07m.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "gabriele" == gabriele renzi <rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it> writes:

    gabriele> Russell Nelson ha scritto:
    gabriele> I guess you could just use a shell like heredocument then:
    gabriele> foo << marker
    gabriele> string
    gabriele> marker

    gabriele> why invent something new?

I'm speculating that this thread is an elaborate joke. I hope so at
least.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Thu Oct 28 11:44:14 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:44:14 -0400
Subject: CLEAR INPUT BUFFER
In-Reply-To: <clqffa$i2r$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
References: <clqffa$i2r$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <A5GdnQGapZBQjhzcRVn-og@giganews.com>

Sam wrote:

> I tried to clear the buffer using sys.stdin.flush() but
> it seem not work.

In general you can't flush the standard input,
it is one of those undefined behaviors in C.

To read the input until an end-of-file is reached
use read() instead of readline().

Istvan.



From dlrush-nospam at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 20:11:28 2004
From: dlrush-nospam at gmail.com (D. Rush)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:11:28 -0700
Subject: GUI to browse and select images
References: <1096715845.204540.281600@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ucOdndmICKmPePzcRVn-rg@adelphia.com>

Kent,

It would be helpful to know a little more about your intended interface,
etc.  But here is a starting point to find some projects that may do what
you want:

http://www.koders.com/Default.aspx?s=thumbnail&_%3Ala=Python

D


<ktenney at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1096715845.204540.281600 at h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com...
> Howdy,
>
> I've written some code which manipulates images,
> now I want an interface for choosing images.
>
> I'm curious what people might recommend as the
> easiest way framework to do the following:
>
> - present a (directory) view, with images represented
> by thumbnails
>
> - provide structure for selecting images
>
> - provide structure for choosing manipulations
> to send the selected images to. (the selected
> image file name(s) become paramaters to functions)
>
> Thanks,
> Kent
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 23 17:40:35 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 23:40:35 +0200
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm4uqv.nmgjbj1vt0spjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

> drs <drs <at> remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com> writes:
> > 
> > I am looking for a list of all unique strings of length x whose
> > elements are from the set a, b, and c.
> 
> Does anyone know what this operation is called?  It's not permutations or
> combinations as I understand them since permutations and combinations do
> not allow repetition.  I assume there was already a solution for this
> somewhere, but I didn't know what term to google for.

There's been a recent thread where the OP called them 'permutations',
somebody commented they're 'variations'.  In that thread you'll find a
bazillion solutions, recursive and non, with or without itertools, &c.


Alex


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct  7 12:24:00 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:24:00 -0400
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
In-Reply-To: <41648bae$1@nntp.zianet.com>
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com> <41648bae$1@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <41656DA0.5030509@holdenweb.com>

Erik Johnson wrote:

> "Erik Johnson wellkeeper com>" <ej <atdot> wrote in message
> news:416472df at nntp.zianet.com...
> 
>>    I am rather new to Python and still learning the finer points....
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to all of you who took the time to respond to my post!  I do like the
> 
>  foo_d or {}
> 
> paradigm - that's considerably cleaner.
> Michael Hoffman's comments about explicitly testing against None duly noted!
> :)

Of course that means that

	(foo_d is None) or {}

works, giving you the best of both worlds.

> 
>     And thanks to Mr. Holden for the words of encouragement - I have your
> book by the way. :)

Purchase is the sincerest form of flattery :-) so I should thank you, too.

> I am currently swamped with "stuff", but I browsed through enough of it to
> know that Python was a viable option for us. I came into this job with PHP
> already well underway. Though it has some smartly handy functions, I have
> not been very impressed with it as a language overall. I am thankful I have
> a cool boss who listens to what I think and so I think PHP, at this "shop"
> anyway, is on its way out.  :)  I hope to spend some more time digging into
> it (them - both the book and Python itself) soon!
> 

Good for you! PHP was originally intended to make it easy to build
relatively simple programmed web sites, but now it has been pushed
beyond all reasonable limits to a perversion of its former self.

People have done many amazing things with it, but many of them would
have been easier in a "proper" programming language.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119



From export at hope.cz  Fri Oct 22 04:24:12 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 01:24:12 -0700
Subject: How to start a new thread ?
References: <81a41dd.0410202302.2e1d7e71@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410220024.1e595233@posting.google.com>

export at hope.cz (Lad) wrote in message news:<81a41dd.0410202302.2e1d7e71 at posting.google.com>...
> From running script I would like to start a new script in a new
> window.How can I do that from Python?
> Thanks for help
> LAD

Nobody knows???
Lad


From olli at haluter.fromme.com  Mon Oct 25 11:26:02 2004
From: olli at haluter.fromme.com (Oliver Fromme)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 15:26:02 GMT
Subject: Pythonic function composition
References: <10nq3c4j3lst8e2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2u4k8aF269be0U1@uni-berlin.de>

Alan G Isaac <aisaac at american.edu> wrote:
 > Given a list of functions, it seems there must be a
 > Pythonic approach to composition.  Something like
 > 
 > def compose(fns): return lambda x: reduce(lambda f,g: f(g),fns)(x)
 > 
 > This will not work because the argument 'x' is not "inside".
 > What is the proper formulation?

There are probably several ways to do it.
The following is the one which come to my mind first.

The trick is to first define a function that composes
two functions, and then use reduce() to apply it to an
arbitrary number of functions.

>>> def compose2 (f, g):
...   def h (x):
...     return f(g(x))
...   return h
...
>>> def compose (fns):
...   return reduce(compose2, fns)
...

Some testing:

>>> def add42 (x): return x + 42
...
>>> def mul2 (x): return x * 2
...
>>> def sub5 (x): return x - 5
...
>>> def div3 (x): return x / 3
...
>>> a = compose((add42, mul2, sub5, div3))
>>> a(1)
27

There's no need to juggle with lambda in this case.
Lambda has its uses, but this isn't one of them.

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Konrad-Celtis-Str. 72, 81369 Munich, Germany

``All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream.''
(E. A. Poe)


From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Oct  4 18:08:04 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Ville Vainio)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:08:04 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct  4)
Message-ID: <cjsh6t$m6u$1@lairds.us>

QOTW:  "...then we get a signal through, then various miracles occur, and
the conclusion is, 'You mean it only takes thirteen lines of code to do
that?  Our software folks said it's not possible.'   
    Cameron Laird, on his typical experience with industrial automation projects

"In fact what you'd really like is a 'resumption' object created by raising
the exception, that you can pass control to at any time, sort of like
yielding from a generator.  Maybe you're getting deja vu now, since this is
basically what Stackless Python continuations were."
    Paul Rubin, on the idea of resumable exceptions


    Marco Aschwanden and others weigh the virtues of the commercial Python
    IDEs WingIDE and Komodo.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.3996.1096354841.5135.python-list%40python.org
    
    Thomas wonders about the speed of getting a list of directories via
    os.listdir() and os.path.isdir(), and gets suggestions for interesting
    platform specific optimizations.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=ikrfl05b77p2jlbrp3kehvf5o3u8jp35od%404ax.com
    
    Jacek Generowicz is looking for a metaclass that would allow
    introducing several methods with the same name in a class, spawning a
    long and educational thread about metaclasses and learning a simpler
    way of achieving the goal using the upcoming decorator syntax.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=tyfekkoeyk2.fsf%40pcepsft001.cern.ch
    
    Bishara Gabriel publishes a proposal aiming to introduce Python and
    object oriented approach to the realm of social sciences.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.4083.1096472628.5135.python-list%40python.org
    
    Srijit Kumar Bhadra posts a version of the same program using
    PythonNet, IronPython and Boo, showcasing the similarity in the way
    code is written.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=221d8dbe.0409302041.3798265d%40posting.google.com
    
    Connelly Barnes has written "htmldata", a module that can convert html
    documents to basic Python data structures and back.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.4170.1096616953.5135.python-list%40python.org
    
    Martin Maney relays information about the Python slant of Ubuntu,
    the Debian-derivative that has been gathering lots of users and
    attention even before the official release.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cjmc42%24420%241%40wheel2.two14.net
    
    Wolfgang Keller can't find the libraries he needs for industrial
    control applications. A discussion about the sorry state of software
    for industrial control in general, and the suitability of Python in
    particular ensues. People actually seem to have plans for improving
    the situation.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg%24.dlg%4040tude.net
    
    Alia Khouri needs to "sell" Python to his company.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6%40posting.google.com
    
    Andrew Kuchling would like to see the focus of Python development
    moving away from hacking the interpreter and towards improving the
    standard library. 
        http://www.amk.ca/diary/archives/cat_python.html#003382
    
    Paul Rubin, Nick Craig-Wood, et al. exhibit experts' thoughts on
    sorting and memory use.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=b73a0c321d8c4c5b

    Larry Bates argues that we shouldn't curtail the life of
    "debugging" code.  Steve Holden, Ian Parker, and others provide
    examples, and consider concrete uses of assert() and __debug__.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=aaf241b357c6f1b


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From twic at urchin.earth.li  Sat Oct  9 14:50:44 2004
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:50:44 +0100
Subject: proposals for having more fun with map
In-Reply-To: <du7zn2w2cbo.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410091223580.27361-100000@urchin.earth.li>
	<du7zn2w2cbo.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410091947130.21164-100000@urchin.earth.li>

On 9 Oct 2004, Ville Vainio wrote:

> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> writes:
>
>     Tom> wanting to do all the time, so i either end up throwing lambdas all over
>     Tom> the place to glue the dicts into map, or writing a little helper function
>     Tom> like so:
>
>     Tom> def functor(dict):
>     Tom>     return lambda arg: dict[arg]
>
> See http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/305318

of course! i really should use the operator package more; it just feels
kind of clunky to me.

>     Tom> again, trivial, but if i'm writing this out in almost every
>     Tom> program i write, other people must be too, so it's worth
>     Tom> putting in the core.
>
> Actually, the more likely future of map is moving *out* of the core, to
> a "functional" module of some sort. List comprehensions (and soon
> genexps) are the recommended approach.

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! one by one, my favourite languages are being
mutilated beyond recognition ... </overreaction>

tom

-- 
I came here to chew gum and kick ass



From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Mon Oct  4 05:21:29 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:21:29 +0200
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4211.1096808398.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4211.1096808398.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cjr4mp$dj0$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp>

John Hunter wrote:
> Read "Hackers and Painters" by Paul Graham, and then give copies to
> your developers.  He writes compellingly about the benefits of using
> python (or lisp) is a competitive environment.

On the other hand, Paul Graham paints Java programmers as dimwits. So 
quoting him is likely to start a flamewar. This is perhaps not the best 
choice from a diplomatic point of view.

Daniel


From lbates at syscononline.com  Fri Oct  8 13:00:03 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 12:00:03 -0500
Subject: Desactivating Python keywords and built-in functions
In-Reply-To: <oMmdneMB9a-PL_vcRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
References: <f06d8508.0410080645.17341a82@posting.google.com>
	<ck6b0l$12p$1@online.de> <oMmdneMB9a-PL_vcRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <YOudnW4nu7ESWvvcRVn-tA@comcast.com>

Peter L Hansen wrote:
> Benjamin Niemann wrote:
> 
>> Various people have tried this but failed...
>> Python's dynamic nature is too powerful and sufficiently intelligent 
>> hackers will always find a way around your restrictions.
> 
> 
> Maybe not *always*, but certainly nobody has yet shown themselves
> willing and able to go all the way with an implementation which
> is sufficiently secure that they could prove you wrong. ;-)
> 
> -Peter

Couldn't you rebind the functions that you want to deactivate
to another function that didn't do what you don't want done?

def eval(s, g=None, l=None):
     pass

Seems like those new to Python do this all the time with
list, dict, etc.

-Larry


From adurdin at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 01:29:58 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:29:58 +1100
Subject: Intercept and Tag STDOUT values
In-Reply-To: <59e9fd3a04101222204b7f90f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AG1bd.5304$YU4.1564@trnddc06> <yR1bd.5306$YU4.4228@trnddc06>
	<59e9fd3a04101222204b7f90f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a0410122229711167ef@mail.gmail.com>

Further to my last reply: perhaps a better solution overall would be
to create a class (let's call it TaggedFile) that supports the
appropriate methods for file-like behaviour, and wraps any file
(keeping a reference to it in the "wrapped_file" attribute) with the
tagging you want. Then to do the actual redirection:

tagged_stdout = TaggedFile(sys.stdout)
sys.stdout = tagged_stdout
# other code here
sys.stdout = tagged_stdout.wrapped_file

It will then be much clearer that the redirection is occurring.


From zathras at thwackety.com  Wed Oct 27 15:23:05 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:23:05 +0100 (BST)
Subject: High volume websites using Python web server software?
In-Reply-To: <417FC4F3.6030001@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410272015250.6039-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Ian Bicking wrote:

> Michael Sparks wrote:
> >>Hi,
> >>Things like Twisted, medusa, etc.... that claim to be able
> >>to support hundreds of concurrent connections because of the
> >>async I/O framework they're based on....
> >>can someone give a few examples of some web sites actually
> >>using those Python frameworks?
> >
> >
> > What do you define as high volume? Different people have different
> > expectations here. I would say for example that high volume starts at
> > around 10-20 million requests per day, but even that is an order of
> > magnitude too low to *really* be viewed as high volume, _unless_ you're
> > only counting valid page impressions and not all web objects served.
>
> I think he's talking about servers that server a higher-than-normal
> number of simultaneous connections.

Sure - that's the way I read it, but the question of high volume still
stands IMO.

[ nice short summary of threads vs async ]

Yep, I was aware of that, but I was really querying whether it was
actually a problem for the poster or if they're after "proof" (in the form
of high volume sites) or just curious.

Almost high volume system I've seen and/or worked with has been based
using servers which use an async approach, and by high volume in *this*
context I'm speaking billions of web requests per day rather than
thousands. (these weren't python though :)

To be fair I'd also be curious as to any high volume sites using python as
well, but I must admt my view of high volume might be different from other
peoples :-)

Regards,


Michael.



From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Fri Oct 15 17:23:29 2004
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:23:29 GMT
Subject: Dxf conversion
References: <mailman.5021.1097870132.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xqx4qkv65gu.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Gandalf <gandalf at geochemsource.com> writes:

>   Hi all,
> 
> I would like to convert dxf and eps files into rasterised format (GIF,
> for example). I think PIL cannot handle vector graphics. Is there a
> library for Python that can read and convert dxf and/or eps files? (In
> fact, I can live with an os.exec() solution and an external utility
> program if there is no native library.) The reason I need this is
> because my customers will want to upload dxf and eps files to a web
> server. However, others must see the preview of these files in their
> browsers. Thus, I must convert dxf into GIF or JPEG. Unfortunately,
> the server is a Unix server (FreeBSD). Do someone know a solution?
> 
> Best,
> 
>    Laci 2.0
> 
> 

"Unfortunately, the server is a Unix server" Au contraire :-)

Look at ImageMagick's "convert".



-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M21 BCA CompArch Design Engineering
Phone: (425) 294-4718


From LBorman at sjm.com  Wed Oct 13 13:35:17 2004
From: LBorman at sjm.com (Borman, Linda E)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:35:17 -0500
Subject: Program help (beginner)
Message-ID: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19BCA@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>

Hi I am having problems with a program. Can you help.
see attachment and below for the code. Program using a function and using
"if, elif, else" 
 
What I'm trying to accomplish is to ask the user to enter there destination
with a choice of North, South, East, West.
When they have enter the destination, the reply will be "You have choosen
XXXXX", then it will ask the user "Please hit enter to find out what to
expect."  
 
 
What I want to happen when they hit enter is to have the program choose the
appropriate statement.
Example if they enter "North" the reply will be: "You must want to be cold"
Example if they enter "South" the reply will be: "You must want to be hot"
Example if they enter "West" the reply will be: "You must want to be in the
fog"
Example if they enter "East" the reply will be: "You must want to be in the
rain"
See below code

 
def travel_dest (direction):
    
    if direction1 (north):
        print "north"
    elif direction2 (south):
        print "south"
    elif direction3 (west):
        print "west"
    elif direction4 (east):
        print "east"
    else:
        print "You do not know where you want to go, huh!"
 
def Travel_location (area):
    if area1 (north):
        print "You must want to be cold"
    elif area2 (south):
        print "You must want to be hot"
    elif area3 (west):
        print "You must want to be where there migh be fog"
    elif area4 (east):
        print "You must want to be where there might be rain"
    else:
        print "You do not know where you want to go, huh!"
 

   
print "\nPlease enter the destination of where you would like to go." 
direction = raw_input("\nChoose North, South, West or East.")
print "\nYou have choosen:", direction
 
area = raw_input ("\n\nPlease hit enter to find out what to expect.")

print "\nHere is your results:"
raw_input ("Press the enter key to exit.")
    

 
 
Linda Borman

lborman at sjm.com


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From http  Sat Oct  2 03:59:36 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2004 00:59:36 -0700
Subject: A newbie in more need....
References: <mailman.4164.1096606649.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<9c3edc58.0410012126.7503511c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7x1xgh7dp3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

chrispatton at gmail.com (Chris Patton) writes:
> The question being asked is why I would want a bunch of identical
> classes with different names. The classes will changed by certain
> circumstances created by the program. You should also no that not only
> am I new to Python, I am fairly new to programming as well.

I think it's best if you describe your general goal ("I'm trying to
write a program that categorizes my cat photos" or whatever), and say
how you want to use these classes, if you want to get any meaningful
answers.  If you're trying to automatically create a bunch of
identical classes with different names, you almost certainly aren't
understanding what classes are for.  Have you read the Python tutorial?



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct  5 12:47:51 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:47:51 -0400
Subject: How can I code to get more than One value from checkbox?
 (Revised Version)
Message-ID: <4162D037.1020302@holdenweb.com>

Shufen wrote:
 > Hi,
 >
 > Sorry I know this is kinda of long, but please give me a helping hand
 > if you understand what I'm looking for.
 >
Sure, I have a minute ...

 > The following attached is my revised version of my code. I added some
 > stuffs into it and now it can really run - error (I supposed my method
 > is wrong again, but I hope my idea is there).
 >
Well, that's obviously an advantage: it's easier to say what's wrong
with something that does run, because you can say "instead of doing this
I want it to do that ..." and so on.

 > This is what is I have:
 > I have a bunch of stuffs in a database table named
 > "shot_descriptions".
 >
 > And this is what I wanna my page to do:
 > The columns of this table consists of project name, date, shot number,
 > notes and etc. And these fields are the stuffs that I wanna to present
 > them in checkboxes form so that the user can select the number of
 > information they wanna to see in the results (output). And a textbox
 > for user to key in a specific shot number in order to perform a
 > search. So, if there is no input in the shot no textbox, an error msg
 > will show (this is one of the part that is not working now, please
 > help). I wanna to display the output in a table form and I'm currently
 > using dictionary to help me with this task. But I'm wondering is there
 > a better way to show it? I mean other than dictionary, how can I code
 > it so that the results will display nicely in a html type of table
 > with columns and rows instead of key: blah blah and value: blah blah.
 > If someone can help me on this part, it will be very nice, cos I'm
 > concern about the presentation of the output too.
 >
Clearly if you are prepared to display the output in a table you are 
prepared to see information about multiple shots as the result of a 
single query, no? Otherwise the table would just have one row in it 
(plus headings, of course, so it wouldn't be a complete waste of time).

But your search doesn't seem to allow any ways of requesting more than 
one shot (like a list of shot numbers, or whatever), so I suspect I may 
be misunderstanding here.

Be that as it may, if we formulate a correct answer for a query result 
containing only one row, it should be possible to generalize it by 
putting the code that formats the data row of the table into a loop that 
iterates over multiple rows. So let's start with the single-row case.

 > Revised Version:
 > What I did is include a section where it will display an error msg
 > when no input is given. Besides, my code (earlier version) displayed
 > results in a repeated loop form when there is more than a tick in the
 > checkboxes.
 >
 > It will show somthing like this:
 > You entered Shot Number: xxxx
 >
 > key: xxxx   value: xxxx
 >
 > You entered Shot Number: xxxx
 >
 > key: xxxx   value: xxxx
 >
 > And it just went on....depending the number of ticks.
 >
 > Thus, in this revised version, I separated into 2 conditions.
 > Condition 1 taking care of more than one input and Condition 2 taking
 > care of only ONE input. But somehow, there is error in this code and I
 > suspected I did something very wrong again so please help me. I wonder
 > if there is any way to display the results in a nice table form for
 > Input that is more than ONE?
 >
Well, wouldn't it make more sense to show the results like

Shot #    Field 1     Field 2     ...     Field N
   23      value 1     value 2     ...     value N

In other words, vary the number of COLUMNS according to the requested 
attributes?

Also it's often helpful to write your loops so that "one" is not a 
special case, it's just what happens when you only go through the loop once.

 > Any help is very very much appreciated.
 >
 > I hope that will be someone responding to this as I took a long time
 > to figure out this revised code (I'm not good in programming - new)
 > and of cos to write this msg.
 >
I'm not able to follow things fully at present due to limited 
connectivity, but I hope I'm not just repeating what I know many other 
c.l.py readers are capable of articulating.

 > Thanks for any help.
 >
 > Shufen
 >
 >
 > 
###############################################################################
 > #!/usr/bin/env python
 > #Author: Chong Soo Fern
 > #Created on: 30/09/04
 > #Modified on: 02/10/04
 > #Help from Lee Harr, Danny Yoo and Steve - Python Tutor
 >
 > import cgi, os, sys, string
 > import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
 > import pg
 >
 > def form():
 >     print """<form method="post" action="">
 >            <table border="0" width="750" cellspacing="2"
 > cellpadding="2">
 >            <tr><td width="150" align="left">
 >            <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="*" checked
 > />All</td>
 >            <td width="150" align="left">
 >            <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="project"
 > />Project</td>
 >            <td width="150" align="left">
 >            <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="notes"
 > />Notes</td>
 >            <td width="150" align="left">
 >            <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="date_string"
 > />Date</td>
 >            </table>
 >
 >          <p>Search by shot number:<br>
 >          <input type=text name="shot_no" value="" tabindex="1" />
 >          <input type="submit" value="SEARCH" tabindex="2" />
 >          <input type="reset" value="RESET" tabindex="3" /><br />
 >          </form>"""
 >
 >
 > if __name__ == "__main__":
 >
 >     print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
 >     print "<head><title>Quick Search using Run
 > No</title></head><body>"
 >
 >     sys.stderr = sys.stdout
 >     data = cgi.FieldStorage()
 >
 >     #Get the shot_no first, followed by each value of the checkboxes.
 >     shot_no = data.getfirst("shot_no", "")
 >     qtype = data.getvalue("qtype")
 >
 >
 >     #I wanna to show the error msg if no input is given.
 >     if not (data.has_key("qtype") and data.has_key("shot_no")):
 >         print "You have not select an option!\n"
 >         print "Please tick at least one checkbox provided!\n"
 >         print "You have no enter a shot number\n!"
 >         print "Please type a in shot number in order to perform a
 > search\n!"
 >
Note that the code above needs HTML markup in the values you print - you 
send a "Content-Type:" header value of "text/html", so your browser will 
just jam all the words together unless you really send it HTML.

 >         #I don't know why this function kept showing error... please
 > advice
 >         #Error: SyntaxError: 'return' outside function
 >         return form()
 >
It's complaining because you have asked it to execute a "return" 
statement where there hasn't been a function called (which is pretty 
much what the error message says). Since you want to send the form to 
the browser, what you probably want here is just to call the form:

	form()

- particularly since the form() function doesn't return a value anyway, 
it just sends stuff to the output.

 >     if isinstance(qtype, list):
 >
I still don;t think you should be doing this, but the problem is that 
the old-style CGI interface code makes it hard not to. If you do

	for i in data.getvalue("qtype"):

when there's only one qtype, you end up iterating over the characters of 
the value (I suppose), or certainly something else equally unhelpful. 
That's why the "Higher-level interface" was bolted on. The cgi module is 
creaking under its own weight, by the way, and doesn't necessarily 
represent the best way to handle web interactions, but let's ignore that 
for now ...

 >         # Conditon 1: The user selected more than one qtype.
 >         # Display the results in one way, different from condition 2.
 >
 >         print "You entered Shot Number:", shot_no
 >
 >         #Will take care of the security problems later...
 >         #Defined a username and connect to the database...
 >         username = os.environ.get('USER')
 >         if username == "None":
 >             username = "apache"
 >
 >         db = pg.connect("moncdata", user=username, passwd=None)
 >         query = """SELECT %s FROM shot_descriptions WHERE
 > shot_number=%s""" % (qtype, shot_no)
 >         qresult = db.query(query)
 >         listOfResults = qresult.dictresult()
 >         print listOfResults
 >
 >         db.close()
 >
 >     else:
 >
 >         # Condition 2: The user selected only ONE qtype.
 >         # Display the results in another way.
 >         # I don't want each qtype to showed in sort of a repeated
 > results loop way.
 >
 >         print "You entered Shot Number:", shot_no
 >
 >         #Will take care of the security problems later...
 >         #Defined a username and connect to the database...
 >         username = os.environ.get('USER')
 >         if username == "None":
 >             username = "apache"
 >
 >         db = pg.connect("moncdata", user=username, passwd=None)
 >         query = """SELECT %s FROM shot_descriptions WHERE
 > shot_number=%s""" % (qtype, shot_no)
 >         qresult = db.query(query)
 >         listOfResults = qresult.dictresult()
 >         print """<p>Example of pulling the list of dictionary results
 > apart.</p>"""
 >         for record in listOfResults:
 >             print "<p><table>"
 >             for k in record.keys():
 >                 print '<tr>'
 >                 print '<td>key:</td> <td>', k, '</td>'
 >                 print '<br />'
 >                 print '<td>value:</td><td>', record[k], '</td>'
 >                 print '</tr>'
 >                 print '</table></p>'
 >
 >         db.close()
 >
 > print "</body></html>"
 >
 > 
###############################################################################

In essence, what I'd suggest is to buid a list of the field names you 
want, get the row from the database and then write out a table with the 
results in it.

The code would go something like this, but bear in mind this is 
untested, and only to give you the idea - you have demonstrated enough 
of a grasp of Python to put right any errors I might make ...

     fields = ["shotno"] + data.getlist("qtype")
     # this way we can treat shotno as "just another column"
     db = pg.cpnnect(...)
     query = """SELECT %s FROM shot_descriptions WHERE
                 shotno = %s""" % (", ".join(fields), shotno)
     # try running that in the interactive interpreter with
     # a hand-constructed fields list if you want to see
     # exactly what it does.
     qresult = db.query(query)
     listOfResults = qresult.dictresult()
     # Now for the interesting bits ...
     print """<table><tr>"""
     for f in fields:
         print "<td>%s</td>" % f
     # The only thing we can be sure of here is
     # that shotno WILL be the first (and maybe the
     # only) field on the result row
     print "</tr><tr>"
     for f in fields:
         print "<td>%s</td>" % qresult[f]
     # so each column header gets the right
     # result column underneath it
     print "</tr></table>"

A final db.close() and print "</body></html>" and TADAAAA!! the job is 
done. Or so the theory goes. You could actually set up a qdict by hand 
if necessary, just to see what the code prints. It *should* print a 
table with a column for each selected qtype field.

Does this help? Had to send this through the list as I can't connect to 
my news server from my current location.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119





From brian at rk-speed-rugby.dk  Wed Oct 27 04:57:33 2004
From: brian at rk-speed-rugby.dk (Brian Elmegaard)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 10:57:33 +0200
Subject: Ever tried this in distutils?
Message-ID: <u654wk076.fsf@rk-speed-rugby.dk>

python setup.py bdist_wininst --bdist-dir=/my/source
is a really efficient way to wake you up even if time is approaching
midnight. 

On my machine it does:
running bdist_wininst
running build
installing to /my/source
creating 'c:\docume~1\be\locals~1\temp\tmpimyffc.zip' and adding '.' to it
adding 'setup.py'
creating dist
removing '/my/source' (and everything under it)

Where the last line is the "fun" part. Maybe it should somehow be
mentioned in the documentation that this will happen?

-- 
Brian (remove the sport for mail)
http://www.et.dtu.dk/staff/be


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Oct 21 09:42:52 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:42:52 +0200
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
In-Reply-To: <2tppjpF22ebjhU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch> <2tpkd4F21cs2oU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cl86oo$2sf6$1@news.imp.ch> <2tppjpF22ebjhU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20041021134245.GH3480@zoran.com>

Hello Diez,

> > Good to hear! i only need the changes! do you have code examples?
> 
> This is a misunderstanding: I didn't mean "the changes". What you can get by
> calling
> 
> os.stat
> 
> is the timestamp of the last modification - so you can then skip rereading
> the file if there has been no modification after the last time you read the
> file.
After that you can compare md5 hashes (which are fast to compute) and know if
the file content has changed.

> But you _can't_ only read what has been changed in the file - there is no
> such thing neither in python, nor the underlying OSses (which is the reason
> for python not having such a functionality)
IMO it is possible (don't know exactly how) on journalized file systems.

Bye.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at gmail.com>
http://tebeka.spymac.net
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys


From kangell at alertra.com  Mon Oct  4 19:37:29 2004
From: kangell at alertra.com (Kirby Angell)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:37:29 -0500
Subject: Accessing prefix within setup.py (distutils)
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.04.23.06.38.681220@effectif.com>
References: <pan.2004.10.04.23.06.38.681220@effectif.com>
Message-ID: <T8l8d.33067$7k.31135@okepread05>

data_files = [ \

	('/etc/init.d', [ 'scripts/myscript' ] ),
	('/usr/local/bin', [ 'code/prog1.py' ] ),
	('/usr/local/bin', [ 'code/prog2.py' ] ),
	('/usr/local/etc', [ 'etc/prog.conf' ] )

  ]

works for me to put stuff all over the place.  I will confess to not 
having to worry about the --prefix parameter because our software is 
only used in-house.

> My question is how to avoid installing myprogram.conf into /usr/etc
> (instead of /etc) if the installer specifies a prefix of /usr? Doesn't
> distutils know the difference between a data file and a config file?
> 

-- 
Thank you,

Kirby Angell
Get notified anytime your website goes down!
http://www.alertra.com
key: 9004F4C0
fingerprint: DD7E E88D 7F50 2A1E 229D  836A DB5B A751 9004 F4C0


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 12 21:07:35 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 01:07:35 GMT
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
References: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gljwcn.hu8qmfo9di8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416c7e11.110043444@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:06:52 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>denis wendum <wendum.denis at pasdepourriels.edf.fr> wrote:
>
>> But my guess to define the method __rlt__ in my class in order to be
>> able to evaluate expressions "non_instance < instance" did not work.
>
>Sensible guess, but not the way things work.
>
>> So what are the names (if they exist at all) of the comparison operators
>> <,>,== and so on,  when one wants to exend their rigth hand side to a
>> user defined (instance of a) class?
>
>Here's how to find out:
>
>>>> class foo:
>...   def __getattr__(self, name):
>...     print 'looking for %r' % name
>...     raise AttributeError, name
>... 
>>>> f=foo()
>>>> 12 < f
>looking for '__gt__'
>looking for '__coerce__'
>looking for '__cmp__'
>True
>>>> 
>
>See what's happening here?  After determining that int (the type of 12)
>cannot deal with comparing 12 with an instance of foo, Python's
>implementation of < turns to the right hand side... and asks for a
>__gt__ method first!  Makes sense, because 12 < f is presumably going to
>be the same thing as f > 12 ... once it doesn't find __gt__ the
>implementation continues by trying to coerce f to an int (by checking if
>class foo supports __coerce__) and lastly by trying for the old-style
>comparison method __cmp__.  But you presumably don't care about that;
>rather, the gist of it is: write your __gt__ -- that will also be used
>as your "__rlt__" -- and so on!
>

On my system, (NT4, python 2.3.2) what really happens for newstyle classes
isn't apparent from that experiment:

 >>> class foo(object):
 ...   def __getattr__(self, name):
 ...     print 'looking for %r' % name
 ...     raise AttributeError, name
 ...
 >>> f=foo()
 >>> 12 < f
 True

The old style does work much the same (but note the default end result ;-)
Is that a 2.3.2 bug?

 >>> class foo:
 ...   def __getattr__(self, name):
 ...     print 'looking for %r' % name
 ...     raise AttributeError, name
 ...
 >>> f=foo()
 >>> 12 < f
 looking for '__gt__'
 looking for '__coerce__'
 looking for '__cmp__'
 False

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jerf at jerf.org  Sun Oct 10 18:24:57 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:24:57 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.10.16.48.24.930075@jerf.org>
	<4169982d.4238722751@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.10.19.48.01.604089@jerf.org>

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:03:08 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
> What's right about accepting 3^7 ? Why should xor be defined for integers?
> IMO we have implicit subtyping of integers as vectors or column matrices
> of bools and operations element by element and implicit re-presentation
> of the result as integer.

I'm intrigued but torn by your arguments.

For positive numbers, a number really is its vector of bits. In the
mathematical sense of "equal" (which I usually express in English as "two
equal things are fully substitutable with each other in all relevant
contexts"), where all base numbers are written in base 10:

10 base 10 = 11 base 9 = 22 base 4 = 1010 base 2

The fact that it happens to really be a bit vector in the computer in this
case actually doesn't count for anything, because just as that bit vector
*is*, in every conceivable mathematical way, a base 10 number, it is also
a base 3 number. I can and have defined ternary math before, and
experimental computers have been built on ternary bases and ternary logic,
and 44 in a binary computer is 44 in a ternary computer.

Only our choice of negative numbers, practically speaking, makes a
difference between the number-as-bitstring and number-qua-number, and
something as high level as Python can conceptually use an extra "negative"
bit so even that distinction goes away. In fact, playing with xor'ing
longs makes me wonder if Python doesn't *already* do that.

>     What is boolvec(388488839405842L) ^ boolvec("hello")?

I'd rather see this as the fairly meaningless "388488839405842L base 2",
meaningless because the base of a number does not affect its value, and
bitwise-xor, as the name implies, operates on the number base two.

Since I reject the need to cast ^ in terms of boolvec, I don't feel
compelled to try to define "boolvec" for strings. Cast it into a number
explicitly, refusing the temptation to guess.

> Except where there is an accepted legacy of such things being done already ;-)
> 
> BTW, what is the rationale behind this:
> 
>  >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count(0)
>  3
>  >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count(())
>  1
>  >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count([])
>  1
>  >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count('')
>  1
>  >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count(0.0)
>  3
>  >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count(0L)
>  3

Again, considered abstractly as numbers, 0 is zero no matter how you slice
it. Abstractly, even floats have a binary representation, just as they
have a decimal representation, and we could even xor them. Realistically,
it is much less useful and there is the infinite-length problem of floats
to deal with.

Theoretically, no float should ever equal an int or a long, since an Int
or Long conceptually identifies exactly one point and a float should be
seen as representing a range of numbers depending on the precision that
can be made arbitrarily small but never truly identifies one point. This
is another one of those "practicality beats purity" things.




From chrisNOSPAM at spam.com  Fri Oct  1 04:24:59 2004
From: chrisNOSPAM at spam.com (Chris)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:24:59 +0200
Subject: No more command history with cursor keys
Message-ID: <1096619099.20537@ftpgate>

Since I've installed (from sources) Python 2.3.4 on SuSE 8.2 the command
history is not working anymore. When I press the cursor keys I get ^[[A or
^[[B ....
I also tried to install IPython but the same problem is there.

What's wrong?

Chris




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 16:45:31 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:45:31 -0600
Subject: Suggestions for Python workshop
References: <f2d68a30.0410061223.7f40fc9a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck1lhc$qi9$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Yaroslav wrote:

> Hi, I'm preparing a 2 hour workshop titled "Python for Scientific
> Computing", the goal of which is to introduce people to using Python
> for their Scientific Computing needs. If you have good examples that
> illustrate Python's power for scientific computing, please post them
> here.

These aren't code snippets but full talks, but we're definitely using python
for 'real' research:

http://amath.colorado.edu/faculty/fperez/talks/04_03_ams_athens.pdf
http://amath.colorado.edu/faculty/fperez/talks/04_09_scipy04_mwadap.pdf

Here you'll also find other talks from the recent scipy'04:

http://www.scipy.org/wikis/scipy04/ConferenceSchedule

As far as code examples, I imagine all of scipy's code could be used :)

best,

f

ps.  Where are you teaching this?  Just curious...


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Wed Oct 13 14:26:40 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:26:40 -0400
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4875.1097688444.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>	<l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>	<mailman.4866.1097680786.5135.python-list@python.org>	<zUcbd.32564$3C6.1308279@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4875.1097688444.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Arebd.33298$3C6.1330114@news20.bellglobal.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> In this case, yes. But I meant to say that a ordereddict would need to
> make a choice here. Either way, our particular need doesn't seem to be
> common enough to warrant such a patch.

I don't know.  Store the order only adds a list that would not affect 
lookup performance in the dictionary.  Right now, the order is simply 
lost; that's not nice.  Alphabetical order can be get anytime, so I 
really see that as different, since there are a lot of solutions for 
these needs, while there's only hacks for our need.

> BTW, I'm curious about why are doing it yourself. In my particular
> case, I'm interested in declarative idioms for templating code: data
> entry forms, configuration files, and similar stuff. I also think
> that, whatever you're looking after, we could share some code and
> experiences, and perhaps bundle it all into a single library. What do
> you think of it?

My solution for now is almost exactly what Peter Otten posted, 
consisting only of a metaclass and a base class for attributes.  I do 
some specific stuff, like instanciate some type stored in the attributes 
in each instance.  I could inherit from your classes instead, but I 
don't have a lot to share for now.  But yes, I would like very much to 
share what I have once it is completed.  What I'm doing looks a lot like 
a metastruct module (see example in previous post).

Regards,
Nicolas


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 15:01:03 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:01:03 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <864d3709041005114042d06490@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>	
	<4162CFCE.6040700@cloudthunder.com>	
	<20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<864d3709041005114042d06490@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4162EF6F.4000403@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>Kids. You should try it. When they come to you with a list of 45+
>questions about the meaning of life, the universe and everything, then
>you may be able to understand how did _we_ feel. :-)
>
>(Excuse me -- you're a retired philosophy teacher, so these questions
>must be easy for you. Sorry ;-).
>
>  
>
I'm too old for kids.  Anyhow, I don't know of any kids who would come 
to their parents with 45+ questions about the meaning of life, but if my 
kids did (non-existent), I would be delighted.  Delighted that my kids 
were curious, smart enough to write up their questions, and bold enough 
to ask me (additionally thereby admitting their ignorance).  I'd do my 
best answer their questions and would by no means discourage their 
curiosity or tell them to look elsewhere.  I think this is a different 
case as the meaning of life is not written up in a manual, is far from 
clear, and so forth.

An interesting analogy nevertheless.


From hs at byteconcepts.de  Mon Oct 18 13:02:45 2004
From: hs at byteconcepts.de (Henri Schomaecker)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:02:45 +0200
Subject: unsigned char array -> buffer
References: <cl0pj4$pj9$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cl0pvi$dt3$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cl0svk$v0$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi Diez,

oh, I thought I made it clear: The data is a jpg image.
Let me try to explain it like that:

I create a com object, which loads a jpg image and then I request that image
from the com object with the method getImgData().
As answer to getImageData(), the com object returns a SafeArray of unsigned
char (Bytes).

My problem (no problem with asp and perl, same with php) is, that I would
like to read the imagedata directly into a string of unsigned chars and
then print it to the user agent (webbrowser) in binary mode.

So, it would not really make sense to print the imagedata here ;-) - Sorry
for that confusion.

I hope it's clear now and would be very glad, If maybe you could help me.
Again, many thanks in advance,
    yours Henri


Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Henri Schomaecker wrote:
>> as I already wrote, I'm trying to get image binary data into a var
>> holding an unsigned char string and then print it directly to the
>> browser. I now already did some tries with an array and now found the
>> buffer() function. - I thought I would have the solution now and also
>> changed stdout to O_BINARY, but still I don't get the data right:
>> 
>> 8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------
>> 
>> imgObj = win32com.client.Dispatch("mine.imgsender")
>> myImgData = buffer(imgObj.getImgData())
>> 
>> msvcrt.setmode(sys.stdout.fileno(), os.O_BINARY)
>> sys.stdout.write(myImgData)
>> 
>> 8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------
>> 
>> I'm really lost and would be very thankful if someone could help me with
>> that.
> 
> That snipplet of code is totally useless, as none of us has your custom
> mine.imgsender lying around his harddisk, so we can't possibly know what
> data you get, let alone what data you want.
> 
> So if you provided us with the actual data that is returned by getImgData
> we might be able to help.
> 

-- 
| Henri Schom?cker - BYTECONCEPTS, VIRTUAL HOMES
| ? ? Datendesign f?r Internet und Intranet
| ? ? ? ? http://www.byteconcepts.de
| ? ? ? ? http://www.virtual-homes.de


From a-steinhoff at web.de  Sun Oct 24 16:38:28 2004
From: a-steinhoff at web.de (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:38:28 +0200
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <1skb5kv22vk9g$.pxvuoyw24hel.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<du71xgjpsay.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<z5nr98uuk2l4.ul5xbcv4hq6x.dlg@40tude.net>
	<r8ydncR5KordxcDcRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
	<1skb5kv22vk9g$.pxvuoyw24hel.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <clh3rt$5d7$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Wolfgang Keller wrote:
> Am Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:14:40 -0400 schrieb Peter L Hansen:
> 
> 
>>Wolfgang Keller wrote:
>>
>>>There seem to be some Python bits out there, for example MatPLC and
>>>Lintouch use Python and some commercial products as well (PyDACHS), but
>>>unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a more or less consistent library
>>>for industrial automation or a coordinated effort to build up one.
>>
>>What, in your opinion, would it take to start one?  
> 
> 
> Work? >:->
> 
> A SIG would already be more than nothing, then start to set up a site with
> a few links to things that are already available (whether free or
> commercial), then start to collect things which are open-source and/or
> free, then start to improve them and complete what's missing andsoon...
> 
> I have a dream :-): A Python library for industrial automation that is as
> complete and well-documented as, for example, twisted for TCP/IP
> communication.
> 
> You need an OPC server/client? - Import a module, instantiate a class and
> there you go.
> 
> You need to talk <insert_your_favorite_fieldbus_here>? Same procedure...

What do you need ?

Profibus-DP ? a GSD based Configurator for Profibus-DP?
Interbus G4 ?
plain CAN ?
CANopen ?
EtherCAT (in development) ?

It's available for QNX6 !

> Ah yes, and obviously have Python ported to all those RTOSes and embedded
> controllers (PowerPC, StrongArm/XScale, MIPS, SH)...

QNX6 works with these processors :)

Regards

Armin Steinhoff

http://www.steinhoff-automation.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 16:43:36 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:43:36 +0200
Subject: String changing on the fly
References: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com>
	<1glzcvj.5uv1lg12ypgy2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aef9ef3d.0410202338.6c091ff2@posting.google.com>
	<1gm04ht.e3wqjt19zaabaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrncnqmo9.qn7.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <1gm8hbm.1r8d77im2uzfkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote:
   ...
> If you've got a lot of dictionary construction and deconstruction to do,
> this simple trick can save a lot of {'redundant': redundant,
> 'mapping': mapping} between locals and dictionaries.

Nah -- just pass in locals() as an argument!

> (but of course it still feels dirty)

So don't do it!-)


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 11:36:32 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:36:32 +0200
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4231.1096844832.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410040223.4aa4f24b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4239.1096896657.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl55lu.yovfmt1kquac3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> But the problem, in my particular case, was not with metaclasses per
> se, but with understanding the 'big picture'. With all respect for

Tim Peters is on record as saying (I paraphrase by memory...) that
metaclasses are NOT something 99% of Python users should worry about,
anyway.  The Big Picture, on the other hand, IS going to be useful to
just about any user of Python, even a casual one.

> regarding the handling of declarations (classes, modules and
> functions), and that also knows what metaclasses are good for. For

Well, that one IS easy: since there are no declarations (of classes,
modules and functions), the handling of declarations is: none at all.
(How would one handle something that doesn't exist, after all?).

Regarding "what metaclasses are good for" (in Python), that's something
we've mostly had to work out the hard way over the last few years --
perhaps harder for those with some understanding of Smalltalk, because
Python metaclasses are so different from Smalltalk ones that one had to
"unlearn" the Smalltalk-originated ideas first.  Just as somebody who
comes from languages where there are declarations must sort of unlearn
those idea, before they can really get the NON-declaration
sort-of-equivalents in Python...

> This very thread, including the last comments from myself and Alex
> Martelli, is specially illuminating in this respect. It took me a
> while to figure out the obvious -- that there are not 'real' class
> declarations in Python, at least as far as they do exist in C++ or
> Delphi (the languages that I worked with before Python). (btw, I
> really don't know Java, but I feel confident to say that Java is
> probably in the C++ camp here also).

Yep, Java has declarations, not quite like C++ but very close, while
Python doesn't (unless you consider the 'global' statement to be a
"declaration" -- it _is_ in any case a _wart_...;-).

> Figuring out the obvious tend to be a big barrier to the learning
> process. For experienced writers, it tends to be a problem also,
> because it's so obvious that one feels compelled to leave it out of
> the explanation. But that's the issue here -- the fact that what I'm
> freely calling 'class declarations' in Python are not really
> declarations (in the same sense of C++, for example), are just

Well, _this_ experienced writer keeps repeating this fact over and over
and over again in _his_ explanations (e.g., Nutshell p. 32: "Unlike
other languages, Python has no declarations"), but of course that
doesn't help all that much if one's explanations just aren't read.

Some simple google search such as:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=declaration%20declarations&safe=i
mages&ie=UTF-8&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&as_uauthors=martelli&lr=&num=2
0&hl=en>
can further show you that I _ceaselessly_ keep repeating this...
*hundreds* of times...: "def is not a declaration: it's an executable
statement", "Python has no declarations", "For that, you'd need some
kind of declaration. Python does not have declarations", "Right, since
we have no declarations." -- over and over and OVER again.  And there
are just snippets readable in the short google summaries of the FIRST
page out of 351 hits.

So, for once, it seems to me that, on this specific subject at least, I
should be held blameless: far from feeling compelled to leave it out, I
am _obsessive_ about pointing it out again and again and AGAIN.  I don't
think I can do much more to get the point across that "*Python has no
declarations, only executable statements*", except maybe personally seek
out every poster who speaks of "declarations in Python", grab them by
their lapels and shout the truth out in their faces.  Sorry, I get too
many frequent flier miles as it, without adding all of these side trips
too.  If (at least some) experienced writers are doing the best they
possibly can to get this crucial point across, and some readers still
just can't get it no matter what, perhaps it's not all that useful to
blame the writers -- and the READERS should perhaps take SOME
responsibility for listening to the unceasing repetitions in
question...?!


> I have developed my own mental model on this, and it tells me that
> classes in Python are declared in a two-step process: code execution,
> and class creation. As I said, this may be obvious to Python insiders
> (obvious to the point where it's natural and doesn't deserve any
> special explanation), but I assume that it isn't, given:

It's a good model -- execution of the code in the class body, then usage
of the dictionary thus built for the purpose of creating the class
object; pretty close to how Python actually does it.  I'm sorry you had
to develop your own mental model of this, since it IS just what I try to
present on p. 100-101 of the Nutshell (and sundry tutorials &c for which
you can find PDF files at www.strakt.com).  "To execute a class
statement, Python first collects the base classes into a tuple t (an
empty one, if there are no base classes) and executes the class body in
a temporary dictionary d.  Then, Python determines the metaclass M to
use" etc, etc.
 
> a) my own trouble to understand the full implications of it;
> b) the type of questions that pop up in this group;
> c) the surprised look that even old-time pythoneers do when they see
> code such as the 'def __metaclass__(...):' inside a class, or similar
> hacks.

Maybe Tim Peters is right that 99% of Python users need not worry about
metaclasses?  That applies to 99% of old-time pythoneers, too -- it's an
issue of whether you _need_ it, not of whether you could learn about it
if it WAS something you needed.  Many Pythonistas are pragmatic guys and
quite understandably don't want to spend any time or energy learning
about stuff they don't need nor care about.

As for me, I'm leaning towards agreement with Guido, that a metaclass
that's not a type _is_ a hack that's best avoided.  So, a 'def
__metaclass__' is already a code smell.  A nested 'class
__metaclass__(type):' would of course be a completely different issue,
basically an "anonymous metaclass" so to speak, not particularly hackish
IMHO -- for the <1% (if Tim has it right) of Pythonistas who _DO_ need
to worry about metaclasses, of course.


Alex


From s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au  Sat Oct  2 21:33:06 2004
From: s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au (Shufen)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 18:33:06 -0700
Subject: How can I code to get more than One value from checkbox?
	(Revised Version)
References: <d3502feb.0409301103.2a39e53a@posting.google.com>
	<6J07d.1812$gk.1795@okepread01>
	<d3502feb.0409302229.46b34efc@posting.google.com>
	<415D4B77.5050209@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <d3502feb.0410021733.617c2e27@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Sorry I know this is kinda of long, but please give me a helping hand
if you understand what I'm looking for.

The following attached is my revised version of my code. I added some
stuffs into it and now it can really run - error (I supposed my method
is wrong again, but I hope my idea is there).

This is what is I have:
I have a bunch of stuffs in a database table named
"shot_descriptions".

And this is what I wanna my page to do:
The columns of this table consists of project name, date, shot number,
notes and etc. And these fields are the stuffs that I wanna to present
them in checkboxes form so that the user can select the number of
information they wanna to see in the results (output). And a textbox
for user to key in a specific shot number in order to perform a
search. So, if there is no input in the shot no textbox, an error msg
will show (this is one of the part that is not working now, please
help). I wanna to display the output in a table form and I'm currently
using dictionary to help me with this task. But I'm wondering is there
a better way to show it? I mean other than dictionary, how can I code
it so that the results will display nicely in a html type of table
with columns and rows instead of key: blah blah and value: blah blah.
If someone can help me on this part, it will be very nice, cos I'm
concern about the presentation of the output too.

Revised Version:
What I did is include a section where it will display an error msg
when no input is given. Besides, my code (earlier version) displayed
results in a repeated loop form when there is more than a tick in the
checkboxes.

It will show somthing like this:
You entered Shot Number: xxxx

key: xxxx   value: xxxx

You entered Shot Number: xxxx

key: xxxx   value: xxxx

And it just went on....depending the number of ticks.

Thus, in this revised version, I separated into 2 conditions.
Condition 1 taking care of more than one input and Condition 2 taking
care of only ONE input. But somehow, there is error in this code and I
suspected I did something very wrong again so please help me. I wonder
if there is any way to display the results in a nice table form for
Input that is more than ONE?

Any help is very very much appreciated. 

I hope that will be someone responding to this as I took a long time
to figure out this revised code (I'm not good in programming - new)
and of cos to write this msg.

Thanks for any help.

Shufen


###############################################################################
#!/usr/bin/env python
#Author: Chong Soo Fern
#Created on: 30/09/04
#Modified on: 02/10/04
#Help from Lee Harr, Danny Yoo and Steve - Python Tutor

import cgi, os, sys, string
import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
import pg

def form():
    print """<form method="post" action="">
           <table border="0" width="750" cellspacing="2"
cellpadding="2">
           <tr><td width="150" align="left">
           <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="*" checked
/>All</td>
           <td width="150" align="left">
           <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="project"
/>Project</td>
           <td width="150" align="left">
           <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="notes"
/>Notes</td>
           <td width="150" align="left">
           <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="date_string"
/>Date</td>
           </table>
       
         <p>Search by shot number:<br>
         <input type=text name="shot_no" value="" tabindex="1" />
         <input type="submit" value="SEARCH" tabindex="2" /> 
         <input type="reset" value="RESET" tabindex="3" /><br />
         </form>"""
             
          
if __name__ == "__main__":
    
    print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
    print "<head><title>Quick Search using Run
No</title></head><body>"
    
    sys.stderr = sys.stdout
    data = cgi.FieldStorage()

    #Get the shot_no first, followed by each value of the checkboxes.
    shot_no = data.getfirst("shot_no", "")
    qtype = data.getvalue("qtype")


    #I wanna to show the error msg if no input is given.
    if not (data.has_key("qtype") and data.has_key("shot_no")):
        print "You have not select an option!\n"
        print "Please tick at least one checkbox provided!\n"
        print "You have no enter a shot number\n!"
        print "Please type a in shot number in order to perform a
search\n!"

        #I don't know why this function kept showing error... please
advice
        #Error: SyntaxError: 'return' outside function 
        return form() 
    
    if isinstance(qtype, list):

        # Conditon 1: The user selected more than one qtype.
        # Display the results in one way, different from condition 2.

        print "You entered Shot Number:", shot_no
        
        #Will take care of the security problems later...
        #Defined a username and connect to the database...
        username = os.environ.get('USER')
        if username == "None":
            username = "apache"

        db = pg.connect("moncdata", user=username, passwd=None)
        query = """SELECT %s FROM shot_descriptions WHERE
shot_number=%s""" % (qtype, shot_no)
        qresult = db.query(query)
        listOfResults = qresult.dictresult()
        print listOfResults
        
        db.close()

    else:

        # Condition 2: The user selected only ONE qtype.
        # Display the results in another way.
        # I don't want each qtype to showed in sort of a repeated
results loop way.
        
        print "You entered Shot Number:", shot_no
        
        #Will take care of the security problems later...
        #Defined a username and connect to the database...
        username = os.environ.get('USER')
        if username == "None":
            username = "apache"

        db = pg.connect("moncdata", user=username, passwd=None)
        query = """SELECT %s FROM shot_descriptions WHERE
shot_number=%s""" % (qtype, shot_no)
        qresult = db.query(query)
        listOfResults = qresult.dictresult()
        print """<p>Example of pulling the list of dictionary results
apart.</p>"""
        for record in listOfResults:
            print "<p><table>"
            for k in record.keys():
                print '<tr>'
                print '<td>key:</td> <td>', k, '</td>'
                print '<br />'
                print '<td>value:</td><td>', record[k], '</td>'
                print '</tr>'
                print '</table></p>'

        db.close()
                     
print "</body></html>"

###############################################################################


From indigo at bitglue.com  Thu Oct  7 08:43:56 2004
From: indigo at bitglue.com (Phil Frost)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:43:56 -0400
Subject: Embedded Python.
In-Reply-To: <74b8e0de.0410070353.17ab0890@posting.google.com>
References: <74b8e0de.0410070353.17ab0890@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041007124356.GA30549@unununium.org>

On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 04:53:35AM -0700, winlinchu at yahoo.it wrote:
> I would want to embed Python interpreter in an application, but only
> the
> interpreter without the modules of the standard library (unless sys,
> builtin or some others, that are indispensables). In "setup.py" of the
> source tree, there is a variable that must contain the list of modules
> to not install. I have added some modules, but does not work.
> 
> How can I do? Thanks.

The list of modules to build into the library is in Modules/Setup. By
default this contains only essential modules.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 14:07:32 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:07:32 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <ckjkf6$amt$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com> <416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckjkf6$amt$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041013110717d44647@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:18:02 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> 
> > executed (which count() can guarantee). There are two situations where
> > the simpler counter works, but the getframe hack doesn't:
> >
> > -- if I have a loop inside my class that is used to declare bunch of
> > attributes, all of them will have the same line number... but a
> > different sequence number if the simpler method is chosen.
> >
> > -- if a function is called that returns a bunch of attributes (not
> > common practice, but still possible). All attributes are at the same
> > line in this case. Example:
> >
> > class Foo:
> > a,b,c = myfunc(...)
> 
> Do you have an example handy? I had so far no success breaking Bengt's code.

Ok. Just as an exercise -- at this point we're far from safe Python
land anyway, and it's not recommended to push it beyond this limit...
;-) Pseudo code only:

class Foo:
    # loop that creates attributes out of a list
    for name, val in list:
        locals()[name] = val

or (actual code tested):

>>> class Bar:
... 	a,b,c,d = (1,2,3,4)
... 	
>>> vars(Bar)
{'a': 1, '__module__': '__main__', 'b': 2, 'd': 4, 'c': 3, '__doc__': None}

The ordering became (a,b,d,c); and the code would have no way to tell
that 'c' was supposed to be classified before 'd', because the
getframe trick would return the same line.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From ville at spammers.com  Sun Oct 10 13:38:17 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 20:38:17 +0300
Subject: The IDE question
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7k6ty4gom.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "dataangel" == dataangel  <k04jg02 at kzoo.edu> writes:

    dataangel> All of the IDEs I've found (google + python wiki page)
    dataangel> are either A) Commercial or B) Written for either an
    dataangel> older version of python or wxPython or C) Are syntax
    dataangel> highlighting in eclipse and that's it.

PyDev eclipse plugin currently offers much more than syntax
highlighting. It's definitely worth a look.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Oct 14 14:19:43 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:19:43 -0400
Subject: from dict to member vars...?
In-Reply-To: <ckmeos$ghr$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.4962.1097776621.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckmeos$ghr$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <416EC33F.1040809@bellsouth.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>Christopher J. Bottaro wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>Lets say I have a class instance with the following member vars:  var1, x,
>>size.  Now lets say I have dict with the following keys:  var1, x, size.
>>Is there an easy way to *automatically* assign all the values in the dict
>>to corresponding (member) vars of the same name as the dict keys?
>>    
>>
>
>d = dict(...)
>
>for key, val in d.items():
>   setattr(o, key, val)
>
>  
>
Why not just use update()?

In [11]: class TestClass:
   ....:     def __init__(self):
   ....:         self.var1 = 0
   ....:         self.x = 0
   ....:         self.size = 0
   ....:

In [12]: tc = TestClass()

In [13]: tc.__dict__
Out[13]: {'x': 0, 'var1': 0, 'size': 0}

In [14]: tc.__dict__.update({'x': 'this is x', 'var1': 'this is var1', 
'size': 125})

In [15]: tc.var1
Out[15]: 'this is var1'

In [16]: tc.x
Out[16]: 'this is x'

In [17]: tc.size
Out[17]: 125

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From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Fri Oct 15 16:15:15 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:15:15 +0200
Subject: quoting %
In-Reply-To: <m2sm8fiw5j.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
References: <863c0ihmz7.fsf@mut.mteege.de>	<mailman.4848.1097675497.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m2sm8fiw5j.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
Message-ID: <41702FD3.3080001@geochemsource.com>


>I don't know what kind of database and/or API you're using, but DB-API
>compliant (Python PEP 249) libraries will put the right quotation marks
>(if any) around your strings *and* quote any internal troublesome
>characters correctly.
>
Can you please send an example? I'm using the DB-API extensively, but I 
have my own conversion
functions for date/time types. It would be great to have a general method.

  Laci 2.0




From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  1 08:59:40 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:59:40 -0400
Subject: Outputting to specific sound channels?
In-Reply-To: <INmdncoAppBu0sDcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
References: <WDY6d.2397168$6p.406211@news.easynews.com>
	<Uz67d.2746$TY2.563@lakeread04>
	<INmdncoAppBu0sDcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <%Ac7d.281193$4o.165728@fed1read01>

Peter L Hansen wrote:

> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
[...]
>> It seems almost churlish to ask if you realise that a microphone is an 
>> input device.
> 
> 
> Come on, Steve, haven't you ever seen a speaker built to act
> bidirectionally, so it can be used both as an output or an input?
> They're very handy in intercom systems and are quite fun to build
> from scratch, for a beginner like I am. :-)
> 
> -Peter

Well I realize you know hardly anything about electronics, Peter, but 
even you have to admit that a speaker makes a much better input 
transducer than a microphone is likely to make an output transducer, if 
only because of the lower power-handling capacity.

I was going to add to my folly by chuntering on about electrostatic 
microphones until I remembered that you can also buy electrostatic speakers.

still-looking-for-a-100-watt-microphone-ly y'rs  - steve


From grante at visi.com  Sat Oct 16 02:13:35 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 06:13:35 GMT
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4920.1097716237.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4958.1097771160.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416eeb74$0$23209$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<x7oej3vddz.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <4170bc0e$0$26583$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-15, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
>> Exactly.  Any number of "low level", statically typed,
>> compiled, languages would work equally as well.  Modula-2 (not
>> sure about M-3, the GC stuff maybe a bit iffy in a kernel),
>> Ada, BLISS, PL/I, Pascal, etc.
>
> Haven't operating systems been written in most of those languages?

Sure.  They weren't Unix, but a kernel's a kernel. :)

> For a sufficiently loose definition of OS, of course.

VMS was mostly in BLISS, I believe.  I think MacOS (and maybe
parts of MS-Windows way back when) were written in Pascal.  I'm
sure IBM must have written at least one OS in PL/I (whether it
escaped into the wild or not, I don't know).  I _think_ Intel
wrote iRMX in PL/M (a PL/I derivitive).  I can't think of any
OSes written in Modula-[23] off the top of my head.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My FAVORITE group
                                  at               is "QUESTION MARK & THE
                               visi.com            MYSTERIANS"...


From dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 21:47:21 2004
From: dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com (Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 03:47:21 +0200
Subject: High volume websites using Python web server software?
References: <417ee2ab$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <slrncntvh9.n8.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Things like Twisted, medusa, etc.... that claim to be able
> to support hundreds of concurrent connections because of the
> async I/O framework they're based on....
> can someone give a few examples of some web sites actually
> using those Python frameworks?

http://www.diadi.it
http://www.superleague.co.uk
http://www.playzone.cz
http://www.divmod.com
http://www.divmod.org

These are those that I know made with Twisted + Nevow

There are others obviously. And other people will tell you about sites made
with other python frameworks.

BTW: I'm writing a forum with Nevow, and from the last tests I've run, I can
tell you that with a normal page (3 db queries) and no caching or
optimizations, I can handle 600.000 connections/day which is almost
20M/month.
I've used ab to measure this performances and I think they are good ones.

-- 
Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Now running FreeBSD 5.3-beta7
Blog: http://vvolonghi.blogspot.com



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Fri Oct  1 12:53:51 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:53:51 +0100
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
Message-ID: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

Two smallish things that have been bugging me; I'm not sure whether they're
actually broken or not, but anyway here it goes:

1. ``os.system`` (and co): Shouldn't ``os.system``'s signature really be
   ``os.system(cmd, arg1, arg2,...)`` rather than ``os.system(some_string)``?
   Otherwise ``some_string`` almost certainly will be constructed by something
   along the lines of ``os.system('convert %s %s' % (infile, outfile))`` which
   of course is broken (e.g. ``infile = "with space"``). 

   I don't think it's even possible to do the right thing
   platform-independently. I currently use the following hack (any improvement
   suggestions welcome):

   def _fixupCmdStr(cmd, args):
       escape = lambda s: '"%s"' % re.sub(r'\"$!', r'\\\1',s) #FIXME
       return " ".join([cmd] + map(escape, args))

   def system(cmd,*args):
       return os.system(_fixupCmdStr(cmd, args))


   So why not just allow ``os.system('convert',infile, outfile)`` as a
   backward compatible extension that "does the right thing"?

   BTW, if I'm not mistaken it's something that perl got right a long time
   ago.

    > perl -e "system('touch', 'a b c', 'd')"
    > ll
    total 0
    -rw-r--r--    1 aschmolc phd             0 Oct  1 17:48 a b c
    -rw-r--r--    1 aschmolc phd             0 Oct  1 17:48 d


2. pydoc's handling of overriden methods without docstrings: I really think it
   should show the documentation of the method in the baseclass; the current
   behavior really sucks when working with things like backends.

   Even fixing up subclass docstrings by hand is not trivial::

    In [25]: class Bar(object):
       ....:     def meth(x):
       ....:         pass
       ....: 

    In [26]: Bar.meth.__doc__

    In [27]: Bar.meth.__doc__ = "abc"
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AttributeError                            Traceback (most recent call last)

    /auto/home/black4/aschmolc/PhD/Bayes/<console> 

    AttributeError: 'instancemethod' object attribute '__doc__' is read-only

   Going via dict will work (but that of course fails for the general case)::

    In [28]: Bar.__dict__['meth'].__doc__ = "abc"
   

cheers,

'as


P.S. speaking of running external processes -- I'm also unaware of a good,
platform-independent (or even just unix) way to run a process that possibly
accepts input, but will just continue on EOF from stdin and getting back
stdout and stderr (if supported) as strings and the exit status.

I currently use this to run e.g. latex, but it doesn't seem to work absolutely
reliably and is unix only. I'm pretty sure there must be a better way.


def readProcess(cmd, *args):
    r"""Like `os.popen3`, but returns 2 strings (stdin, stdout) and the exit
    code (unlike popen2, exit is 0 if no problems occured (for some bizzarre
    reason popen2 returns None... <sigh>). FIXME: only works for UNIX!"""

    cmdStr = _fixupCmdStr(cmd, args)
    popen = popen2.Popen3(cmdStr, capturestderr=True)
    popen.tochild.close() # XXX make sure we're not waiting forever
    exit = popen.wait()
    out, err = map(slurpIn, [popen.fromchild, popen.childerr])
    return out or "", err or "", exit


def slurpIn(file, binary=False):
    if isString(file):
        file = open(file, ("r", "rb")[bool(binary)])
    try:
        result = file.read()
        return result
    finally:
        file.close()


From astyonax at libero.it  Fri Oct  1 13:29:45 2004
From: astyonax at libero.it (astyonax)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:29:45 GMT
Subject: os.system  vs. Py2Exe
In-Reply-To: <81a41dd.0410010253.582aba45@posting.google.com>
References: <81a41dd.0409280200.1a74edd1@posting.google.com>
	<Rd2dneVBGfQrXMTcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<81a41dd.0409282240.739cb257@posting.google.com>
	<4_CdnUGCt9u3CcfcRVn-pA@powergate.ca>
	<81a41dd.0409290652.61d6aaa4@posting.google.com>
	<8249c4ac.0409291619.2cd87a4f@posting.google.com>
	<81a41dd.0410010253.582aba45@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <415D93E6.2050105@libero.it>

Lad wrote:

>>You can use this instead of os.system()
>>
>>import os
>>fh=os.popen("notepad myfile.txt")
>>fh.close()
>>(but you should add the appropriate exception handling)
>>
>>This opens notepad and python will exit if you ran it like this
>>python myscript.py myfile.txt
>>
>>If you ran python interactively, then you are returned to the python
>>command line, after the os.popen() statement. In which case you should
>>manually close the file, as shown above.
>>
>>fh is a file object, so if you want to you can read from that object.
>>
>>This should work on W98, Win2K, Win XP and does not depend on any file
>>associations.
>>
>>I would not use os.startfile() for anything, if you are expecting to
>>open a specific application that is associated with a file extension,
>>because many applications re-associate file extensions during
>>installation. Additionally, The user may have intentionally
>>re-associated .TXT with a different program, because notepad is so
>>lame.
>>
>>There are many variations of popen(), but popen() is probably the
>>simplest for your situation.
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot for your help.
> os.popen can open file on both Xp and Win98. But there is still a
> problem.
> When I open myfile.txt (on Win98) by
> os.popen("notepad myfile.txt")
> my Python program continues running but I would need it to wait until
> notepad
> window ( with myfile.txt) is closed.
> On XP platform the python program execution is paused until I close
> the Notepad window.The same I need on Win98 platform
> Thanks for help.
> LAd
Try with other version of popen such as popen2, popen3, popen4. I find 
useful popen3, that pause my script.
os.popen3(...)

bye
Astyonax


From mike at hobbshouse.org  Thu Oct 14 11:15:34 2004
From: mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:15:34 -0000
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <10mt60mhr42rl09@corp.supernews.com>

Maboroshi <nobody at hotmail.com> wrote:
> My question has to do with python and linux - I was interested in 
> finding out what it would take to reimplement the Linux Kernel in python 
> basically just taking the source code from linux and rewriting it in 
> python Would this idea make sense to do - if so what would be the 
> benefits of doing this and in what way would this not be a good idea

I had once given serious thought to what it would take to write an OS only
in a high-level language. (Standard ML was my language of choice at the
time.) The short answer is, no, it can't be done with Python as it currently
stands. 

First, you would need a Python compiler that can compile Python programs to 
machine code. Otherwise, what would you write your interpreter in? Python?
What would you write the interpreter's interpreter in? It can't be Python
all the way down. (Turtles are a different story, though. ;)

Second, in order to communicate with hardware, you would need modifications 
to the Python language so that you can read and write bytes to specific
memory locations. You would also need to be able to signal interrupts. Plus,
you would also need to be able get the exact memory location of functions,
in order register interrupt handlers.


-- Michael Hobbs



From newspost at lolmc.com  Wed Oct 20 09:13:04 2004
From: newspost at lolmc.com (Lol McBride)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:13:04 +0100
Subject: testing for uniquness in a large list
References: <pan.2004.10.20.10.01.17.525999@lolmc.com>
	<1glyglo.1367t9d3zot7sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.20.13.13.01.805509@lolmc.com>

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:37:32 +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Lol McBride <newspost at lolmc.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking for some help in developing a way to test for the uniqueness
>> of an item in a large list.To illustrate what I mean the code below is an
>> indicator of what I want to do but I'm hoping for a faster way than the
>> one shown.Basically,I have a list of 20 integers and I want to create
>> another list of 200000 unique subsets of 12 integers from this list.WhatI
>> have done here is to use the sample()function from the random module
>> and then compare the result to every item in the ints list to check for
>> uniqueness - as you can guess this takes an interminable amount of time to
>> grind through.Can someone please enlighten me as to how I can do this and
>> keep the amount of time to do it to a minimum?
> 
> One word: dictionaries!
> 
> Untested, but should work...:
> 
> 
> import random         # dont't use from...import *, on general grounds
> 
> def picks(seq=xrange(1, 21), rlen=200000, picklen=12):
>     results = {}
>     while len(results) < rlen:
>         pick = random.sample(seq, picklen)
>         pick.sort()
>         pick = tuple(pick)
>         results[pick] = 1
>     return results.keys()
> 
> this returns a list of tuples; if you need a list of lists,
> 
>     return [list(pick) for pick in results]
> 
> In 2.4, you could use "result=set()" instead of {}, results.add(pick) to
> maybe add a new pick, and possibly "return list(result)" if you need a
> list of tuples as the function's overall return value (the list
> comprehension for the case in which you need a list lists stays OK).
> But that's just an issue of readability, not speed.  Slight speedups can
> be had by hoisting some lookups out of the while loop, but nothing
> major, I think -- eg. sample=random.sample just before the while, and
> use sample(seq, picklen) within the while.  Putting all the code in a
> function and using local variables IS a major speed win -- local
> variable setting and access is WAY faster than globals'.
> 
> 
> Alex
Thank you Alex - i'll try your method and see how i get on
Lol



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 08:22:12 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:22:12 +0200
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<864d3709041003152471cf26fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4389.1097014212.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl8nji.c9swnaj31o85N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Gustavo Niemeyer <niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:
   ...
> > >>> class MyClass:
> > ...         for i in range(10):
> > ...                 def newmethod(self,i=i):
> > ...                         print "I'm method #%d" % i
> > ...                 newname = "method%d" % i
> > ...                 locals()[newname] = newmethod
   ...
> As an interesting side effect, the class above will have
> 'newname', 'newmethod', and 'i' attributes, besides 'method0-9'.

...which incidentally shows that i is a +local+ variable...

> Of course, in your example, not using the 'i=i' trick would be a
> problem, since the 'i' variable is lost, and inside the method a
> global is looked for, creating an error.

True, the opcode for i is indeed a LOAD_GLOBAL.  Why _that_ should be
the case is anything but an 'of course' to _me_, though, as we just
showed that i is a +local+.  newmethod is not seen as a nested function
of the anonymous function built from the codeobject's that's the
classbody.  I _think_ there's some adhoccery in the Python compiler (not
the easiest part of Python to read and understand, so I apologize for
any potential confusion here) to specifically ensure that -- I guess
it's for backwards compatibility with old Python versions which didn't
have nested scopes, otherwise any barename in a method would refer first
to the classbody (acting as its 'outer function') which could shadow
globals.  A bit confusing for an "of course", nevertheless;-).


Alex


From nick at craig-wood.com  Sun Oct  3 07:30:00 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 03 Oct 2004 11:30:00 GMT
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
	<cam7d.455$UP1.116@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<yfsacv5h224.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnclvng4.u8f.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote:
>  Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:
> > Some of them do you commands.mkarg (the only function I know of in the
> > standard library that does shell escaping).  
> 
>  Thanks -- I didn't know about that (small wonder -- it's undocumented; no
>  docstring and not in the manual).

...and doesn't do the right thing on windows - see my other posting in
this thread!

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From pcooke at philc.net  Mon Oct 18 15:32:16 2004
From: pcooke at philc.net (PhilC)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:32:16 -0400
Subject: Latest PIL installer failed to install.
Message-ID: <5g68n0hgiiq80smabt3rdcn7j6ruv6rl6v@4ax.com>

Hi Folks,

I was trying to install the latest PIL from http://effbot.org and
sucessfully did the register thing but when it came to the installer
it just quit when I hit the final "next".

Python 2.2 with PIL installer 2.2 

Not sure where to go from there.

Thanks all,

PhilC


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Sun Oct 24 19:18:58 2004
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:18:58 -0700
Subject: Mindboggling Scope Issue
In-Reply-To: <200410241616.14515.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
References: <200410241346.12230.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
	<clha6h$s7d$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<200410241616.14515.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <200410241618.58235.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

I just realized that I spelled Terry Reedy's name wrong in my previous email. 
My apologies to Terry.

James

On Sunday 24 October 2004 04:16 pm, James Stroud wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> Please bare with me as I have seldom asked for help with my code, so I may
> do things a little wrong at times. If I ask in the wrong way, please by
> friendly like Tarry Reedy and suggest how I may better ask my questions.
>
> So I will retry this one from the top, and with Tarry's suggestions
> incorporated.
>
> First I'll begin with a simple example that works from the python CLI:
>
> % python
> Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40)
> [GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>
> >>> def outer():
>
> ... ? def inner():
> ... ? ? print bob
> ... ? bob = "wuzzup?"
> ... ? inner()
> ...
>
> >>> outer()
>
> wuzzup?
>
> This is an experiment to prove that a function can "de-reference" a name
> even if the function is defined in a position of the code that preceeds
> said name's assignment in the enclosing scope. (Hopefully my vocabulary
> makes sense here--I am not a computer scientist). Please look at the code
> to see what I mean. Here, we are talking about the name "bob".
>
> Second I present below two alternatives (designated "method1" and "method2"
> in the comments of the listings below) to a method that resides in a
> program I am writing. I run the program with the same python executable
> with which I generated the above example. These method listings are long
> but differ only where I have indicated in the comments. I am including them
> in their entirety so that I don't leave something critical out that I, as a
> relative novice, am missing.
>
> With "method1" I get no error and the "ok()" method works as I expect and
> in accord with the example above. With "method2" I call "ok()", and when it
> prints to stdout I get the following error (after compile, when the program
> is being run):
>
> Exception in Tkinter callback
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call__
>     return self.func(*args)
>   File "./passerby", line 1378, in ok
>     print result
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'result' referenced before assignment
>
> So my question is, what is special about what I am doing here? Why does it
> not work like the first example I gave with the name bob? Have I found a
> bug in python? I should note that "passWindow" is not defined anywhere else
> but this method. Also, I should note that "method1" represents a
> workaround/alternative, so my program runs just fine. I just want to know
> what is going on here to imporve my own understanding. I think if anyone
> can give me a satisfactory answer on this one, we should all call them a
> "real expert".
>
> Here are the listings I referred to above:
>
> -----
>
>     # method1 : works!
>     def ask_for_password(self, message):
>       def cancel():
>         passWindow.destroy()
>       def ok():
>         # different : WORKS FINE!
>         print passWindow.result
>         pw = passEntry.get()
>         if len(pw):
>           # different
>           passWindow.result = pw
>         passWindow.destroy()
>       message = "\n" + message + "\n"
>       passWindow = Toplevel(self.get_mainWindow())
>       # different : notice that passWindow is defined for the
>       #                 first time in this whole program in the line above
>       #                 It is not part of a larger scope!
>       passWindow.result = None
>       passWindow.title("passerby - Password Entry")
>       self.get_mainWindow().deiconify()
>       passWindow.transient(self.get_mainWindow())
>       passWindow.geometry("400x180+50+50")
>       passWindow.resizable(0,0)
>       passLabel = Label(passWindow, text=message)
>       passEntry = Entry(passWindow)
>       passEntry.configure(width=48)
>       passEntry.config(show="*")
>       passEntry.bind("<Return>",ok)
>       cancelButton = Button(passWindow, text="Cancel", command=cancel)
>       okButton = Button(passWindow, text="OK", command=ok)
>       passLabel.pack()
>       passEntry.pack()
>       cancelButton.pack()
>       okButton.pack()
>       passEntry.focus_set()
>       passWindow.grab_set()
>       self.get_tk().wait_window(passWindow)
>       # different
>       return passWindow.result
>
> -----
>
>     # method2 : doesn't work!
>     def ask_for_password(self, message):
>       def cancel():
>         passWindow.destroy()
>       def ok():
>         # different : GETS ERROR!
>         print result
>         pw = passEntry.get()
>         if len(pw):
>           passWindow.result = pw
>         passWindow.destroy()
>       message = "\n" + message + "\n"
>       passWindow = Toplevel(self.get_mainWindow())
>       # different : notice that passWindow is defined for the
>       #                 first time in this whole program in the line above
>       #                 It is not part of a larger scope!
>       result = None
>       passWindow.title("passerby - Password Entry")
>       self.get_mainWindow().deiconify()
>       passWindow.transient(self.get_mainWindow())
>       passWindow.geometry("400x180+50+50")
>       passWindow.resizable(0,0)
>       passLabel = Label(passWindow, text=message)
>       passEntry = Entry(passWindow)
>       passEntry.configure(width=48)
>       passEntry.config(show="*")
>       passEntry.bind("<Return>",ok)
>       cancelButton = Button(passWindow, text="Cancel", command=cancel)
>       okButton = Button(passWindow, text="OK", command=ok)
>       passLabel.pack()
>       passEntry.pack()
>       cancelButton.pack()
>       okButton.pack()
>       passEntry.focus_set()
>       passWindow.grab_set()
>       self.get_tk().wait_window(passWindow)
>       # different
>       return result
>
>
>
> --
> James Stroud, Ph.D.
> UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
> 611 Charles E. Young Dr. S.
> MBI 205, UCLA 951570
> Los Angeles CA 90095-1570
> http://www.jamesstroud.com/

-- 
James Stroud, Ph.D.
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
611 Charles E. Young Dr. S.
MBI 205, UCLA 951570
Los Angeles CA 90095-1570
http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Thu Oct  7 04:26:11 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:26:11 +0100 
Subject: After a file browsing script
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434AEB@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Dfenestr8]
| Basically, I want a script that will open a nice neat little graphical
| file browser, that'll enable me to browse my hard drive when 
| I press the "Open" button on the interface.
| I suppose I want to be able to feed it a location on HD as an 
| argument, and have it return a file location when I press "Select". 
| That type of thing.

What you're talking about sounds like the standard File-Open dialog
on whatever platform / windowing toolkit you're using. Is this right?

If it is, the answer depends on which toolkit / OS you're using. On
Win32, you could use win32ui.CreateFileDialog from pywin32 (he says,
not having tried it). Doubtless there are equivalents on Mac and
within wxPython or PyGTK or whatever. Depends on what you're already using.

More info from you would probably get a more useful answer.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
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From tchur at optushome.com.au  Mon Oct 25 18:37:35 2004
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 08:37:35 +1000
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 01:16, Grant Edwards wrote:
> Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
> in site-packages) in an application.
> 
> Let's also say I use py2exe to package and distribute said
> application.
> 
> Is what I'm distributing a "derived work" of the GPL'd python?
> Or is py2exe's packaging of the module's .pyc file and my
> application code's .pyc files a "mere aggregation" so that I
> only have to provide source code for the GPL'ed module and not
> for my application code?

See the GPL FAQ at
http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#MereAggregation :

<quote from above URL>
What is the difference between "mere aggregation" and "combining two
modules into one program"?

Mere aggregation of two programs means putting them side by side on the
same CD-ROM or hard disk. We use this term in the case where they are
separate programs, not parts of a single program. In this case, if one
of the programs is covered by the GPL, it has no effect on the other
program. 
        
Combining two modules means connecting them together so that they form a
single larger program. If either part is covered by the GPL, the whole
combination must also be released under the GPL--if you can't, or won't,
do that, you may not combine them.
        
What constitutes combining two parts into one program? This is a legal
question, which ultimately judges will decide. We believe that a proper
criterion depends both on the mechanism of communication (exec, pipes,
rpc, function calls within a shared address space, etc.) and the
semantics of the communication (what kinds of information are
interchanged).
        
If the modules are included in the same executable file, they are
definitely combined in one program. If modules are designed to run
linked together in a shared address space, that almost surely means
combining them into one program.
        
By contrast, pipes, sockets and command-line arguments are communication
mechanisms normally used between two separate programs. So when they are
used for communication, the modules normally are separate programs. But
if the semantics of the communication are intimate enough, exchanging
complex internal data structures, that too could be a basis to consider
the two parts as combined into a larger program.
</quote>

Thus, if you combine your code with GPLed code using py2exe, the GPL
clearly applies. If you import GPLed Python code into the same namespace
as your code, the GPL clearly applies. If your code calls a GPLed Python
module via an "intimate" RPC mechanism like PyRO, then the GPL may
applies (but it is not so clear-cut). If your code calls GPLed code via
a less intimate mechanism, like XML-RPC or HTTP, the GPL clearly doesn't
apply. If your code and GPL code are just on the same disc, the GPL
clearly doesn't apply.
-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0





From m_vddungen at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 18:04:45 2004
From: m_vddungen at yahoo.com (Marcel van den Dungen)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 15:04:45 -0700
Subject: Python in HTAs
References: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <98862c6.0410181404.1547515a@posting.google.com>

m_vddungen at yahoo.com (Marcel van den Dungen) wrote in message news:<98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4 at posting.google.com>...
>     document.all["idspan"] = 'hello from python'
That should of course be:
 document.all["idspan"].innerText = 'hello from python'

It turns out that Python was not registered as ActiveX scripting
language. I assumed that this was done by the PythonWin 
installation program.

Its working now.

Thanks everyone for the help!
Marcel.


From wwitzel3 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 14:43:28 2004
From: wwitzel3 at gmail.com (Wayne Witzel III)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:43:28 -0700
Subject: Using os.system() and string concatenation
Message-ID: <7a2229ee041012114353157c1d@mail.gmail.com>

Using Python 2.3

Currently I process three files and build the output of those files in
to lists using for statements.

I think take those lists and provide them to an os.system() call.

cmd = "/usr/sbin/useradd"
os.system(cmd + list1[0] + list1[1] + list2[0] + list3[0])

This executes without any errors, but doesn't execute the command
supplied to os.system(). Now if I place them all in cmd first, then
supply it to os.system() it executes just fine. So there really isn't
a problem, just wanting to know what would cause such behavior.

Thanks,

Wayne


From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Fri Oct 22 04:52:58 2004
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:52:58 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<1098414642.736428.8940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1gm1x7t.w8k2hqrv300tN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4178ca7c$0$44104$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:1gm1x7t.w8k2hqrv300tN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
<...skip...>
> Lastly, I'm still looking for systematic ways to test system integration
> that are as effective as unit tests are for each single component or
> subsystem; but that's an area where type and const checking are of just
> about negligible help.
>
System integration has a completely different nature than unit testing.
During system integration the "unforeseens" and the "unknowns" pop-up. And
of course the not-communicated, implicit human assumptions are uncovered.
And the "non-functional" behavior is a source of problems (response times,
memory footprint, etc). Many system integration problems are semantic
problems. system integration is often dufficult due to heterogeniety of the
problems, technologies and the people involved. In other words the larger
the system the more challenging systems integration becomes

All of these problems are not addressed at all by static typing. However,
design clarity and compactness does help tremendously. I would expect for
these reasons that Python is a big plus during system integration of large
systems. Of course design attention is required to cope with the
"non-functional" imapct of Python, such as CPU and memory consumption. on
top of that (run-time) instrumentation is very helpful. Here again the
dynamic nature of Python is a big plus.

kind regards, Gerrit Muller
Gaudi Systems Architecting www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/





From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Oct 25 18:33:21 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:33:21 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d6856$0$45508$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5452.1098737135.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d6856$0$45508$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1098743601.22370.91.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 20:55 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

> 
> That doesn't stop them from asking "just one question". Usually
> forwaded through sales.

Indeed.  And nothing stops you from explaining to them that you'll be
happy to answer their question at your usual rate.

> IMO, it's usually worthwile to answer the questions.  It
> generates customer loyalty. 

Agreed.  It's just a question of when to draw the line.  I usually draw
it if the answer to their questions is going to take me more than, say,
5 to 10 minutes.  One thing I've noticed is that if you *always* provide
free support, customers don't appreciate it.  Rather they come to
*expect* it and will get angry if you refuse to provide it.  But if you
only give them free support *sometimes*, then they realize that you are
giving them something for free that usually costs money.  This they
appreciate.

>  But, pretending that it deoesn't
> cost time/effort to support GPL'd source code when you give it
> to a customer is being delusional.

It's no different than providing anything else to a customer.  If they
didn't ask questions about the source, then it would be about use of the
application or about the operating system or about...  the only way to
stop customer questions is not have customers (or to charge them
ridiculous prices for support).  The typical model for making money from
open source is to provide support for a fee.  If you aren't getting paid
for that support then the open source model isn't going to work well for
you.


Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From c.helmbold at gmx.de  Mon Oct  4 04:47:45 2004
From: c.helmbold at gmx.de (Christian Helmbold)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:47:45 +0200
Subject: pythondoc or epydoc?
Message-ID: <cjr2n0$17v1@qum07.mms-dresden.de>

hi

I don't know which doctool I should use. At the moment gendoc is used in a
project, but as far as I know it isn't devoleped anymore. So I want to know
what you suggest: pythondoc, epydoc or something else? What is more
'offical'? 

Thanks in advance.
Christian


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 17:58:42 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:58:42 +0200
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5321.1098456297.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u45bhF263o38U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5430.1098718895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u74k3F277sd4U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<417ec5c5$0$30592$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1gmafkh.1672phg48q9hvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Christophe Cavalaria <chris.cavalaria at free.fr> wrote:

> Oliver Fromme wrote:
> 
> > The appropriate type checking is done at compile time.  That
> > is, if your program calls sort with two lists of different
> > type (e.g. a list of strings and a list of ints), then the
> > compiler will detect that and report an error.
> 
> This must be a bad example because I expect to be able to sort a list of
> integers and a list of strings with the same sort function.

Haskell should have no problem with that, thanks to typeclasses; but I
don't think ML-family languages have that (though O'Caml has always, for
years, been gaining oodles of features so fast I can't tell what is in
it or not any more;-).

But I agree with you -- generic programming should mean the compiler
instantiates as many concrete versions of the 'template' function as
needed... ideally with full type inferencing (which in C++'s templating
"sort of works BUT", but in good typesystems such as Haskell's or ML's
should just work...).


Alex


From bix_mix at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 14 15:28:58 2004
From: bix_mix at hotmail.com (Bix)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 12:28:58 -0700
Subject: The Art of  Pickling: Binary vs Ascii difficulties
Message-ID: <171d9905.0410141128.3104bb95@posting.google.com>

As this is my very first post, I'd like to give thanks to all who
support this with their help.  Hopefully, this question hasn't been
answered (too many times) before...

If anyone could explain this behavior, I'd greatly appreciate it.

I'm leaving the example at the bottom.  There is a variable, fmt,
within the test0 function which can be changed from -1
(pickle.HIGHEST_PROTOCOL) to 0 (ascii).  The behavior between the two
pickle formats is not consistent.  I'm hoping for an explaination and
a possible solution; I'd like to store my data in binary.

Thanks in advance!


# example.py
import pickle
class node (object):
	def __init__ (self, *args, **kwds):
		self.args = args
		self.kwds = kwds
		self.reset()

	def reset(self):
		self.name = None
		self.node = 'node'
		self.attributes = {}
		self.children = []
		self.update(*self.args,**self.kwds)

	def update(*args,**kwds):
		for k,v in kwds.items():
			if k in self.__dict__.keys():
				self.__dict__[k] = v
	
def test0 (x,fmt=-1):
	fn = 'out.bin'
	pickle.Pickler(open(fn,'w'),fmt).dump(x)
	obj = pickle.Unpickler(open(fn,'r')).load()
        return obj

def test1 ():
	x = node()
	return test0(x)

def test2 ():
	x = node()
	y = node()
	x.children.append(y)
	return test0(x)

def test3 ():
	w = node()
	x = node()
	y = node()
	z = node()
	w.children.append(x)
	x.children.append(y)
	y.children.append(z)
	return test0(w)

def test4 ():
	w = node()
	x = node()
	y = node()
	z = node()
	w.children.append(x)
	x.children.append(y)
	y.children.append(z)
	return test0(w,0)

def makeAttempt(call,name):
	try:
		call()
		print '%s passed' % name
	except:
		print '%s failed' % name

if __name__ == "__main__":
	makeAttempt(test1,'test1') # should run
	makeAttempt(test2,'test2') # should run
	makeAttempt(test3,'test3') # should fail
	makeAttempt(test4,'test4') # should run


From scooterm at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 14 12:50:28 2004
From: scooterm at hotmail.com (valued customer)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 09:50:28 -0700
Subject: Completely INNOCENT Indentation question
References: <1b347673.0410130532.63199a4a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4846.1097675256.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1b347673.0410131928.750bcde7@posting.google.com>
	<apcsm09pt53hq77126d55879ff5qlht0jb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1b347673.0410140850.3fed0db6@posting.google.com>

> Unfortunately, it's impossible to satisfy "personal preferences" for
> spacing in a language where spacing is a fundamental part of the syntax.
> It's somewhat similar to asking why # could not be used as a comment
> character in C.

Makes sense, although the original post does not ask *why*
such-and-such is
(or is not) possible, but *whether* it is possible. Moreover, just
because
such-and-such is a *fundamental* part of the syntax, it does not
necessarily
follow that it is an *immutable* part of the syntax. 

As you know, some
languages and syntax formats actually *do* allow things like alternate
comment delimters, alternate quotation delimters, and even alternate
methods of specifying INDENT and DEDENT tokens.

Apparently, at least for the latter case, python does not ... which is
all the original question is asking. 

(By the way ... For those curious about "outlining" text editors, 
there are several out there ... just do a web search on "code folding"
to see some examples...)


From wjdandreta at att.net  Sat Oct 23 12:15:40 2004
From: wjdandreta at att.net (Bill Dandreta)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:15:40 GMT
Subject: How to play sound in Python?
Message-ID: <Msved.21689$OD2.7465@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

I posted a message ("Help with my 1st Tkinter program") a few days ago 
complaining that Python did not have any built in basic cross platform 
sound capability. I was wrong (at least partly). Python comes with some 
sound playing ability for some platforms.

Since no one responded to my post, I assume the capability is not well 
known so I will post a code snippet from my practice program that 
demonstrates how I play a sound file with Python on both Windows and 
Linux. It may save someone else some time.

The winsound module lets you play .wav files under windows. The 
ossaudiodev module in combination with the wave module lets you play 
.wav files under Linux (and some other nix's as well).

===========================
file='tada.wav'
if platform.startswith('win'):
   from winsound import PlaySound, SND_FILENAME, SND_ASYNC
   PlaySound(file, SND_FILENAME|SND_ASYNC)
elif platform.find('linux')>-1:
   from wave import open as waveOpen
   from ossaudiodev import open as ossOpen
   s = waveOpen('tada.wav','rb')
   (nc,sw,fr,nf,comptype, compname) = s.getparams( )
   dsp = ossOpen('/dev/dsp','w')
   try:
     from ossaudiodev import AFMT_S16_NE
   except ImportError:
     if byteorder == "little":
       AFMT_S16_NE = ossaudiodev.AFMT_S16_LE
     else:
       AFMT_S16_NE = ossaudiodev.AFMT_S16_BE
   dsp.setparameters(AFMT_S16_NE, nc, fr)
   data = s.readframes(nf)
   s.close()
   dsp.write(data)
   dsp.close()
===============================

Bill


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Oct 23 07:42:02 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:42:02 +0200
Subject: How to get an encoding a value?
References: <mailman.5323.1098459379.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2tspdiF238hqeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1gm2nks.vf77b916l066wN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cldg2a$6lt$01$2@news.t-online.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Yeah, but it doesn't work.  iso-8859-x would break for any value of x;
> can't tell this way if it was latin-1, or any of the others...

you and peter are right of cours - first try should be utf-8. And of course,
a one-byte-based encoding will always match. I know that there are tools
out there like recode that try to make an educated guess, by taking the
context o non-ascii chars into account and the like.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From marfadeut at gmx.de  Mon Oct 18 13:40:03 2004
From: marfadeut at gmx.de (M. Faust)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:40:03 +0200
Subject: typedef type name; error with swig wrapper and VC++ 6
Message-ID: <cl0v5i$4qd$1@online.de>

In Visual C++ 6 (SP6) I get the error message

Debug--------------------
Compiling...
srs_wrap.cpp
srs_wrap.cpp(887) : error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before 
identifier 'name'
srs_wrap.cpp(887) : fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
Error executing cl.exe.

srs_py.dll - 2 error(s), 0 warning(s)

The error is connected to the line

typedef type name;

of a file which was generated by swig (1.3.22) (Windows XP SP2, python 
2.3.4).

Has anybody an idea? The base program is in C++ withou any classes.

Markus


From nomail at no.way  Sat Oct 23 09:26:49 2004
From: nomail at no.way (Bats)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:26:49 +0200
Subject: Fedora 1 and Eric3
Message-ID: <cldm39$qo7$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Has anyone here managed to install Eric (Python GUI) on Fedora Core 1?
I have had no end of sh*t from qscintilla right on up. It seems I have to
jump through an endless series of hoops in a certain order to get to the
end.

Any step-by-step kinda help?

*:*
-- 
Bats
~..~
(I can only post on weekends and rare times during the week.)



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Oct 21 17:36:20 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:36:20 -0500
Subject: Recent python-mode updates
Message-ID: <16760.11220.529395.363981@montanaro.dyndns.org>

For those who don't monitor python-mode checkins (does anyone? I doubt it),
I checked in a couple changes to the python-mode package in the past few
days which may be of interest.  I thought I would post a note so interested
parties can beat on things.

* TAB key cycling - When you type a newline or hit the TAB key the cursor
  moves to the mode-specific idea of the correct tab stop.  Hit TAB again
  and it will back out a stop.  You can keep hitting TAB until the cursor is
  in column 1, at which point hitting TAB one more time will reindent to the
  "correct" tab stop.

* Completion using Pymacs - If you (require 'pycomplete) and have Pymacs
  installed, as much of the dot expression preceding (point) will be
  completed as possible.  For example, with

    import time

  at the top of the file, if you enter

    time.cl

  into the current buffer and press M-TAB it will complete "time.clock" for
  you.  Global import statements are taken into account, though the code for
  this is fragile.  All of it could use improvement.  I have no idea how to
  hook into Emacs's builtin completion facility.

I created a 1.0alpha release (tar.gz), which is available on SourceForge:

    http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=86916

If you have any questions, please direct them to python-mode at python.org.  If
you find bugs or have enhancements, please submit a ticket on the
python-mode project at SourceForge.

Thanks,

Skip



From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Tue Oct 19 08:43:13 2004
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:43:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Threads running in different web browser windows
References: <81a41dd.0410190115.40c63b6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns958795C60E838cpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>

> I would like to use httplib/urllib to download webpages from 3
> different websites.From my script
> I want to open 3 webbrowser windows( 3 threads) and open in each
> thread( window)  pages from a particular website.
> Is it possible to do that in Python?
Yes, it is possible to do that in Python. 

Best wishes, 

Harald

 



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 23 16:50:34 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:50:34 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Qd6dnUTV2ZBkBefcRVn-pg@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <1gm4rq5.1c25kfc12o6jivN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > Not sure what example you mean:
> 
> http://www.divmod.org/Home/Projects/Nevow/
> 
> data/render methods
> 
> > But the point is, the logic
> > is in the code, Python code well out of this HTML file; the role of the
> > template is to provide the HTML basis, and tag where the current data
> > comes from, which method renders it
> 
> The render_colorful method creates a new attribute "color" that
> was not specified in the template. They may have moved all python
> out from HTML but surely did not move out all HTML from the
> python code.

Surely there is no prohibition against the Python code generating all
the HTML it wants; it doesn't even have to use any template whatsoever
if it doesn't want to, generating HTML from code is the main thrust of
stan, somewhat similarly to Quixote.  It's not true that Nevow _is_
templating: Nevow _has_ templating, as one of many tools -- it just
happens to be the one tool I think should be used, given the scenarios I
explained.


> I would argue that this is not templating in the way
> people use this term. Here the "color" attribute just
> appears from thin air.

I don't see anything contradicting the usage of "templating" in leaving
code in ultimate control of what gets output -- adding attributes is no
different from adding or removing tags.  Once my nevow-using code has
gone for the templating choice, it's in fact not in "ultimate control",
in a sense, since renderers are chosen by the template; the code
controls which renderers it supplies and what exactly they do, the
template controls which renderers, out of those supplied, get used (and
with what arguments, if any -- with what DOM subtree being passed to
them, since that's exactly the template's contents -- etc).


> I stick to my opinion that every framework must allow one to bend
> the rules because in real situations one cannot always choose
> *the right thing*.  What nevow seems to be doing is bend
> them by allowing  HTML to be moved into python,
> or to say it more nicely, by allowing python to modify
> the template document object model (DOM).

Oh, it also allows Python to create HTML out of thin air, if the
programmer so wishes -- there's no constraint in Nevow to actually force
your code to use any of the templating subsystem.  It's mechanism, not
policy.  I think it _is_ feasible to use that mechanism to always do the
right thing, even in perfectly real situations: never emit any piece of
HTML that didn't come from templates, using renderers only to select,
reiterate, etc, the appropriately marked-up pieces.  But there's no
constraint against writing a renderer that just ignores everything and
returns '<strong>pekaboo!</strong>' (direclty or via stan); just like
there is nothing in Python that stops the renderer from having a nice
'while 1: pass' right at the start, and block everything.  It's simply
better to not combine the mechanisms that Python and Nevow order in ways
which make them implement such ill-advised policies, that's all.


Alex


From yong at net.tamu.edu  Wed Oct  6 10:27:30 2004
From: yong at net.tamu.edu (Yong Wang)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:27:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: How to improve extracting data speed
Message-ID: <20041006142730.B59921589B@net.tamu.edu>

Hi, All:
    I have a program in C language to extract data from binary file. Is there any way 
I can use python to improve extract speed beause binary file is extreme large ?
    Thank you all for inputs.

     Yong



From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Mon Oct 18 19:17:29 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 23:17:29 GMT
Subject: Yahoo SMTP
References: <2tgn1sF1vnm4fU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20041018191729.07480.00002405@mb-m18.aol.com>

I tried telnetting to Yahoo myself, but I didn't get 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN, I
got the other things though


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct  8 09:09:13 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 15:09:13 +0200
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ck5neo$t2n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4565.1097229132.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ck63hc$7fe$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Gerrit wrote:

>>>> first = lines.next()

[as opposed to 'for first in lines: break']

> Would hurt less feeling I presume.
 
>>> iter("").next()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
StopIteration

I feel a little uneasy with that ...unless I'm sure I want to deal with the
StopIteration elsewhere. 
Looking at it from another angle, the initial for-loop ist just a peculiar
way to deal with an empty iterable. So the best (i. e. clear, robust and
general) approach is probably

items = iter(...)
try:
    first = items.next()
except StopIteration:
    # deal with empty iterator, e. g.:
    raise ValueError("need at least one item")
else:
    # process remaining data
    
part of which is indeed your suggestion.

Peter




From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Wed Oct 27 09:48:01 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:48:01 +0100
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410262345.4017fbd5@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<clkvab$1dc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<Z8ofd.2777$kM.174@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<940ee3e8.0410262345.4017fbd5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <clo8uk$689$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

kartik wrote:
 > [Andrew Dalke]
>>My guess is the not unusual case of someone who works mostly alone
>>and doesn't have much experience in diverse projects nor working
>>with more experience people.
> 
> Hey, that's right.

I'm sorry for questioning whether you were a troll. Like I said before, 
I spend waaaaay too much time hanging out on troll-infested fora and it 
means certain behaviors cause me to automatically dismiss posters. You 
seem to have recognized and stopped some of these behaviors.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Oct  4 23:26:39 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 03:26:39 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following 
> support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*

Welcome to Python.  I've been using it for almost a decade
and full time for 7 years and quite enjoy it.

However.  You've asked a whole bunch of questions which
look as if you've not done any research on your own.  It
has the feeling almost that you're asking us to do a
homework assignment for you.  Given the question

 > 39. Unicode

it means you haven't even looked at the tutorial at
   http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html
with its section 3.1.3 "Unicode strings".

much less given a cursory review of the reference manual at
   http://docs.python.org/ref/ref.html

Given your questions about closure, tail recursion,
JIT, prototype-based OOP, etc. you are apparently not
new to programming.  Reading through the base
documentation should be a much better use of your time
and ours than having people answer your questions point
by point.  After all, some of your questions require
non-trivial amounts of contextualization to answer
correctly.  Eg, your #30 assumes a Smalltalk paradigm,
while Python uses a different way to achieve similar
ends, your #28 requires explaining Python's reference
based semantics where variable have only one type,
reference to object, and your #11 requires a stern
warning that such behaviour is almost certainly a
security hole waiting to happen.

The most suspicious part about your post is your
haphazard use of so many different programming
paradigms combined with the almost pedigogical way
of describing some of them.

Please read the basic Python documentation before
asking these questions.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From ewijaya at i2r.a-star.edu.g  Thu Oct 28 01:43:46 2004
From: ewijaya at i2r.a-star.edu.g (Edward WIJAYA)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:43:46 +0800
Subject: Python Command Line Input Args equivalent to Perl
Message-ID: <opsgkfi8vo3n5jl2@news.singnet.com.sg>

Hi,

I am new to Python, and I like to
learn more about it. Since I am
used to Perl before, I would like
to know what is Python equivalent
of Perl code below:


$filename = $ARGV[0];
open (FILE,"$filename") || die "Can't Open $filename:
$!\n";
while<FILE>{ #dealing with it per-lines
    #process something here
}


Also where can I find in any pointer/website
link ofPerl-Python concordance,
especially to facilitate Perl conversion to Python.

Thanks so much for your time.
Hope to hear from you again.

-- 
Regards,
Edward WIJAYA
SINGAPORE


From HansWL at msn.com  Sun Oct  3 07:04:59 2004
From: HansWL at msn.com (HansWL)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 04:04:59 -0700
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>	<cjj9sd$hg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
	<mailman.4177.1096637180.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <691232ce.0410030304.2f84c04b@posting.google.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote 
> gdmodule is really more of a low level drawing program than a graphing
> module.  Of course you can draw graphs with it, as you can with any
> drawing program, but it's a lot easier to make scientific graphs (the
> OP's interest) with a program designed for that purpose.  matplotlib
> has a gdmodule backend.
> 
>   http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/backends.html#GD
> 
> JDH

I tried matplotlib 0.63 with Python 2.3.4 on an old Win98 machine (500
MHz, 128 MB RAM) and found that I had to wait for at least 35 seconds
before even the simplest demo plot appeared. Is this expected?

The plots looked great, I just hope they appeared faster.


From mnations at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 17:53:30 2004
From: mnations at gmail.com (Mudcat)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 14:53:30 -0700
Subject: How do I check if Telnet session is open?
Message-ID: <1098222810.359040.241080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I am running a script that uses telnet sessions which have to remain
open for an extended period of time. The device under test I'm working
on times out the sessions after 10 mns for security reasons due to
inactivity, and there are long stretches of time where I am unable to
do any type of maintenance process where I can prod them to stay open.

In order to work around this I have created a class that has exceptions
where if the session is closed it will automatically re-open since it
retains it's ip/port info. I thought this would fix my problem, but it
didn't completely.

The problem comes because Python is unaware that the session has closed
when it tries to write to it. I don't know the internal workings of
telnet sessions or how it's supposed to work, but according the Python
the write is successful. However when the read occurs, then it fails. I
could put exception handling there also, but by then it's too late. The
write has already been lost.

So how can I from within Python tell if a session is still open before
writing to it? I don't see any options in Telnet class that do it. Is
there any way?

Thanks ahead of time,
Marc



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 13:10:55 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:10:55 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote:
   ...
> I second that. But the truth is that I really like
> templating systems that are valid HTML, thus
> can be manipulated in an html editor

Me too.  nevow forever...!!!


Alex


From fgrellert at t-online.de  Thu Oct 14 05:28:21 2004
From: fgrellert at t-online.de (Frank Grellert)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:28:21 +0200
Subject: read a files particular line
Message-ID: <cklgrm$6g3$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,
does anybody have an idea how to read a particular line of a file like awk's
awk '{if( NR==12) print $0}' filename (reads lineno 12 of filename)

thanks for your help

Frank Grellert


From john3gz at bestwebz.net  Mon Oct 11 15:01:53 2004
From: john3gz at bestwebz.net (John M. Gabriele)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:01:53 -0400
Subject: help explaining default function arg weirdness
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4679.1097466774.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4679.1097466774.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10mlm51d2movo78@corp.supernews.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> John M. Gabriele wrote:
> 
>>What's the rationale for having the function remember
>>default_list across calls?
> 
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-are-default-values-shared
> -between-objects
> 
> The setting of default values is performed when the function is defined
> (only once), not when it is called (each time).
> 

Ah. Thanks Robert. I'm off to read the rest of that faq presently.

Looks like the rationale I was looking for is possibly not really
there, but rather, the behaviour is just a side-effect of how the
Python interpreter parses function definitions.

---J
-- 
--- remove zees if contacting via email ---


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 19:02:02 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:02:02 -0400
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <10mrc6jnbrggjcc@corp.supernews.com>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<rY-dndTE6JxtMPDcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
	<10mrc6jnbrggjcc@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <KKadnWDfMat0LvDcRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

Maboroshi wrote:
> Peter L Hansen wrote:
>> Maboroshi wrote:
>>
>>> My question has to do with python and linux - I was interested in 
>>> finding out what it would take to reimplement the Linux Kernel in 
>>> python basically just taking the source code from linux and rewriting 
>>> it in python Would this idea make sense to do - if so what would be 
>>> the benefits of doing this and in what way would this not be a good idea
>>
>> Um, you're the one suggesting a re-write.  Doesn't that mean
>> it's sort of your job to know the benefits of doing it?  There
>> are certainly endless reasons why it's not a good idea...
> 
> Um sorry I should say in your opinion what would be the benefits and 
> also what would be the disbenefits
> 
>  > Um, you're the one suggesting a re-write.  Doesn't that mean
>  > it's sort of your job to know the benefits of doing it?
> 
> I understand some of the benefits but not all

Let me be more explicit then.  I think this is an idea that
is based on very little understanding of what is involved,
to the point that I think it would be pointless to discuss
it without knowing what are the things *you* perceive as
being benefits, and what disadvantages or potential road-blocks
*you* have already thought of.

-Peter


From bgabriel at cloudthunder.com  Wed Oct  6 20:08:42 2004
From: bgabriel at cloudthunder.com (Bishara Gabriel)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:08:42 -0400
Subject: Social Analysis and Modeling for Python
In-Reply-To: <1097100334.1344.267.camel@emilio>
References: <415AD6A4.7000400@cloudthunder.com>	<1096493975.1238.45.camel@emilio>	<mailman.4108.1096499054.5135.python-list@python.org>	<a8623416.0410011046.5c2638cd@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4191.1096666380.5135.python-list@python.org>	<a8623416.0410061319.4032e273@posting.google.com>
	<1097100334.1344.267.camel@emilio>
Message-ID: <4164890A.9040207@cloudthunder.com>

Tim Churches wrote:

> <SNIP>
>
>
>Seriously, the benchmark these days are games like SimCity, Civilisation
>and Age of Empires, or The Sims for a more personal perspective.
>Spending a few days playing these games is mandatory research for the
>Social Analysis and Modelling for Python team. 
>
>Are there any existing open source or commercial simulation games
>written in or scriptable with Python, I wonder?
>  
>
Well, we did not budget into the proposal the purchase of SimCity, 
Civilization, and/or Age of Empires.  So I do not think this will at all 
play into our design.  However, if someone would like to donate these 
games to our effort, we would then be capable of incorporating and 
taking into account their simulative qualities.

I do not know of any python simulation games, just RPGs and FPSs which 
use Python as a glue and game engine driver.  There are open source 
simulations though, just not in Python.  Remember though that this is 
not intended to be some sort of simplistic, fun, entertainment oriented 
development.  It is (in theoretical existence) a serious academic tool 
intended to serve the demands of social scientific research. 

Sincerely,
 Bishara Gabriel


From russblau at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 22 16:01:24 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:01:24 -0400
Subject: backslash plague
References: <2tt4b2F24cffeU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2tt7a2F22u502U1@uni-berlin.de>

"Luis P. Mendes" <luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt> wrote in message
news:2tt4b2F24cffeU1 at uni-berlin.de...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> hi,
>
> I've already read many pages on this but I'm not able to separate the
> string 'R0\1.2646\1.2649\D' in four elements, using the \ as the
separator.
>
> a='R0\1.2644\1.2344\D'

Here's your first problem: the name "a" is not mapped to the same string you
think it is.  Python interprets the backslashes in a quoted string as escape
sequences, unless you specify a raw string by putting an "r" before the
first quotation mark.  Specifically, it interprets the sequence \1 as the
character with an ASCII value of 1.  So what you've done is:

>>> a = 'R0\1.2646\1.2649\D'
>>> print a
R0?.2646?.2649\D

(The preceding line contains non-ASCII characters that may display oddly...)

I think what you really want is:

>>> a = r'R0\1.2646\1.2649\D'
>>> print a
R0\1.2646\1.2649\D

Once you have stored your string properly, what's wrong with this?

>>> print a.split("\\")
['R0', '1.2646', '1.2649', 'D']

-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 11:19:45 2004
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (G. S. Hayes)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 08:19:45 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <96c2e938.0410060719.584298fc@posting.google.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote in message news:<4162f360$0$55262$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>...
> I've always been curious about that phrase.  It seems to imply
> that you _do_ care, since it would be possible for you to care
> less than you do.  Shouldn't the expression be "I couldn't care
> less"?

This is in the alt.usage.english FAQ (the answer isn't particularly
satisfying):

http://www.english-usage.com/faq.html#fxcouldc
http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxcouldc.html (same text from
the newer FAQ on a much slower site)


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 16 11:58:01 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:58:01 -0700
Subject: undefined variable ?
In-Reply-To: <a34050c7041016081440dd25ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ckr3lp$9fq$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<a34050c7041016081440dd25ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041016084913.09DB.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Are exceptions cheap in Python then? Coming from Java, I know there's
> all sorts of overhead involved in creating and throwing an exception
> there...

They are not free, but they aren't that bad either...

>>> import time
>>> def te(n):
...     for i in xrange(n):
...         try:
...             j = 1
...         except:
...             pass
...
>>> def tf(n):
...     for i in xrange(n):
...         try:
...             raise #generally improper use
...         except:
...             pass
...
>>> def tf2(n):
...     for i in xrange(n):
...         try:
...             j = l
...         except:
...             pass
...
>>> def ne(n):
...     for i in xrange(n):
...         j = 1
...
>>> t = time.time();te(1000000);time.time()-t
0.92100000381469727
>>> t = time.time();tf(1000000);time.time()-t
7.7030000686645508
>>> t = time.time();tf(1000000);time.time()-t
27.0
>>> t = time.time();ne(1000000);time.time()-t
0.57899999618530273
>>>


The no-exception version runs in ~.58 seconds, with-exception handling 
(none raised) runs in ~.92 seconds, the first exception raiser runs in
~7.7 seconds, and the name error on assignment runs in ~27 seconds.


As long as you aren't relying on exception handling as a major part of
your algorithms, and are actually using them as /error handling/, I
wouldn't worry too much; the rest of us don't (we prefer properly
running scripts).

 - Josiah



From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct  8 12:33:00 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 08 Oct 2004 19:33:00 +0300
Subject: Establishing a p2p connection in python
References: <a50cee44.0410080026.30cf04f0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du71xg9f9vn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "gs" == gs  <gs.lists at gmail.com> writes:

    gs> Proposed solution: I thought that one approach could be to
    gs> write a small server for my public server with the sole
    gs> purpose of keeping track of connected users and establishing
    gs> p2p connections on demand.

One lightweight approach (assuming that a web server is available)
would be to put up a cgi script that adds the ip:port information to
onlineusers.txt. Then the clients can just use urllib to notify the
script when they become online, and also get the list of connected
clients by just retrieving onlineusers.txt. Of course onlineusers.txt
could contain the lists of shared files for each client as well...

If you use unique user ids, you can keep the file from growing up too
much. If not, you could clean up dead clients by trying to connect all
the specified addresses.

    gs> 1) I've written a threaded server that stores information
    gs> about connected servers in a "container class". This class
    gs> holds information about username, a unique ID, the connecting
    gs> adress and the actual socket. I have not been able to find any
    gs> information online on how i could go about to connect two
    gs> sockets. It would seem like the socket is already "occupied"
    gs> since it is connected to the server. Could one duplicate, or
    gs> otherwise get a dedicated socket for sending binary data, to
    gs> one connected socket from another? A few pointers and/or tips
    gs> would be greatly appreciated!

If you went on to "connect" the two sockets, you would just
instantiate a thread that forwards the data, and would use more server
bandwidth than an FTP server would have used.

The idea in p2p is to make clients connect to each other. The task of
the server is to tell the clients about other clients so they can
connect to each other.


    gs> 2) I've also failed to find python specific information on how
    gs> abouts one would do file resuming. I would think that you,
    gs> somehow, use md5-checksums to check file status and somehow
    gs> skip the first part of the datastream. Also, pointers and
    gs> maybe an explanation in (short) pseudo-code would be much
    gs> appreciated.

It's trivial since you are going to implement a custom protocol
anyway. Make the "get file" command that you pass to the file provider
such that in addition to the file name you pass the starting offset
within the file.


    gs> 3) Is this too big of a project for a novice programmer such
    gs> as myself? I do want to go through with this since it's a
    gs> genuine problem, but i do not know if i'm ready. I'm not a
    gs> "quitter" per say, but i'm afraid doing something TOO advanced
    gs> in the beginning might be overwhelming :)

No, it's a great first project. Go ahead, I believe you will find it
surprisingly easy, educational and something for which Python is a
perfect fit.

It'll be a fun project to expand as well, to provide chunked file
transfer etc. You could also explore the alternative of making it a
bunch of wrapper scripts that just invoke bittorrent...

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Oct 25 09:27:49 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:27:49 +0200
Subject: python file versioning
References: <940ee3e8.0410250506.1d679430@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cliv0l$ah6$03$1@news.t-online.com>

You can always have conditional imports based on the interpreter version
like this:

import sys

if sys.version_info[:2] == (2,2):
    from __future__ import nifty_feature


And you can extend that to class definitions and the like, too. And
import-hooks might help, too.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 11:10:21 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:10:21 -0300
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0410052233.16505629@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410052233.16505629@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904100608102be2255d@mail.gmail.com>

On 5 Oct 2004 23:33:01 -0700, Michele Simionato
<michele.simionato at gmail.com> wrote:
> which does something close to what you ask for. Of course the trick
> there is NOT recommended for real code ;)

That was the best advice I could have :-) Really. I'm trying to outwit
Python, and one has to have the good sense to stop doing it at some
point. I'm giving up (unless I found a really great way to make it),
and I'll use this idiom instead:

def BuildTemplate(<template parameters>)
    class TemplateClass(...):
        ...
    return TemplateClass

It's simple, and less hackish, but still unusual. I fear I may be
missing something on my design, if I need to resort to such hacks.
-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From dochtman at cs.vu.nl  Sat Oct 30 06:09:05 2004
From: dochtman at cs.vu.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:09:05 +0200
Subject: running a python script in the background
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5703.1099125726.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <371349cd.0410291923.a0bc96b@posting.google.com>	<20041029230524.0C07.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5703.1099125726.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clvp3f$7ag$1@star.cs.vu.nl>

I've found in the past that it might work better when you redirect 
stdout and stderr, since errors will arise when the Python script 
suddenly doesn't have either anymore because your session ended.

python script.py >& /dev/null &

HTH,

Dirkjan

>>What has worked for me in the past is to SSH to localhost, executing:
>>"nohup python script.py &" and disconnecting.  It should work running
>>from a local terminal (without SSH), but I can't guarantee it.
>>
>> - Josiah


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 04:24:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:24:44 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4161a7e3$0$80627$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416212A9.2030300@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4332.1096980308.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl8c8b.1fw150q3o59n4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
>     def __getattr__(self, attrname):
>         # self.__dict__ contains the local dict of Dog
>         message = getattr(self.__dict__, attrname, None)

The only kind of *attributes* you'll find for self.__dict__ are methods
such as keys, items, copy, and so on.  Attributes and items are very
different things, of course.  I suspect this code is a serious bug,
i.e., the intention is *NOT* to have somedog.copy() return a copy of
somedog.__dict__ and so on.  self.__dict__ will never have attrname as a
key at this point, either, or else __getattr__ would never have been
entered in the first place (don't confuse __getattr__ with the rarely
needed, rarely used __getattribute__!!!).  In short, I believe this
whole part and the following if/else construct just need to be excised.

If you want to delegate attribute lookup (including method lookup) from
self to self.owner, ALL you need is:

  def __getattr__(self, n): return getattr(self.owner, n)

that's it -- nothing more.


Alex


From sridharinfinity at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 21:44:26 2004
From: sridharinfinity at gmail.com (Sridhar  R)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 18:44:26 -0700
Subject: Desactivating Python keywords and built-in functions
In-Reply-To: <f06d8508.0410080645.17341a82@posting.google.com>
References: <f06d8508.0410080645.17341a82@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1097286266.630657.264200@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Don't read code as input.

Instead read `data` from user.  If control of that data must be also
read as input, then read `action` key from user, from which get the
method using dictionary.

def foo_do(a,b):
print a,b

actions = {
'do_this': foo_do
...
}

data = raw_input()
a,b = data.split(',')
control = raw_input()
actions[control](a,b)



From jbellis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 23:08:05 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan  Ellis)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 20:08:05 -0700
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5186.1098210776.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1098414485.569483.4790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:16:01AM -0700, Jonathan  Ellis wrote:
> > Testing is good; preventing entire classes of errors from ever
> > happening at all is better, particularly when you get large.
Avoiding
> > connectedness helps, but that's not always possible.

> What classes of errors are completely avoided by "static typing" as
> implemented by C++ (Java)? Just out of curiosity, because this is
> usually stated as "true by axiomatic definition" in this kind of
> discussions.

As one example: in this codebase (closer to 700 kloc than 500 by this
time, if it matters) the very oldest code used a Borland wrapper over
JDBC.  At the time, it allowed doing things JDBC version 1 did not; by
the time I got fed up, JDBC version 3 had caught up and far surpassed
Borland's API.  There was also a lot of JDBC code that was suboptimal
-- for the application I worked on, it almost always made sense to use
a PreparedStatement rather than a simple Statement, but because binding
parameters in jdbc is something of a PITA we often went with the
Statement anyway.  Both the Borland-style and the JDBC code also dealt
with calls to stored procedures, most of them not in CallableStatements
(the "right" way to do this).

I volunteered to write a more friendly wrapper over JDBC than Borland's
that would handle caching of [Prepared|Callable]Statement objects and
parameter binding transparently, nothing fancy (in particular my select
methods returned ResultSets, where Borland had their own class for
this) and rewrite these thousands of calls to use the new API.  Of
course I wrote scripts to do this; 5 or 6, each handling a different
aspect.

To write unit tests for this by hand would have been obscene.  (As an
aside, writing unit tests for anything that deals with many tables in a
database is a PITA already and usually ends up not really a "unit" test
anymore.)  Even generating unit tests with more scripts would have
required a significantly deeper semantic understanding of the code
being filtered, and hence a lot more work.

As it was, with the compiler letting me know when I screwed up and
improve my scripts accordlingly, out of the thousands of calls, I
ultimately had to do a few dozen by hand (because that was less work
than getting my scripts able to deal with the very worst examples), and
the compiler let me know what those were.  After the process was
complete, QA turned up (over several weeks) 4 or 5 places where I'd
broken things despite the static checking, which I considered a very
good success ratio.

-Jonathan



From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Oct 14 02:37:24 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:37:24 +0200
Subject: Easy web session module with Python?
References: <416df772$0$3947$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.14.06.37.24.164902@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:50:09 +1000 schrieb Johnathan Doe:

> Hi,  I'm looking for an easy way to do web development with Python 
> (session handling a-la ASP/JSP/PHP, that kind of thing).  I've looked at 
> PythonWeb.org but it has bugs because it's not tested on UNIX platforms 
> it seems (I've created some patches and sent them to the author), and a 
> quick browse through PyPI in the mature/stable packages doesn't reveal 
> much hope, unless I've missed something.  I've googled for session 
> handling with Python, and it seems something called "pso" would be ok, 
> but that is only mod_python as far as I know, and I may need something 
> that works with cgi only hosts.

Hi,

You can use quixote. Use SessionPublisher. You need
a mapping to store the data. A very simple but useable mapping
is DirMapping which is in session_demo.cgi.

This should work with every webserver, even with CGIHTTPServer from the
standard library.

HTH,
 Thomas



From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Oct 17 15:29:34 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:29:34 -0700
Subject: Anything like 'inspect.getsourceencoding()'?
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F91@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Just wrote:
> In article <mailman.5071.1097991055.5135.python-list at python.org>,
>  "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote:
> 
> > Jeff Epler wrote:
> > > Is there a convenient way to find the encoding of a source file?
> > 
> > Short answer: no, you have to guess. But check out some 
> good guessing
> > algorithms at e.g. http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/decodeh.py
> 
> You don't have to guess if the file has a
> 
> # -*- coding: encoding -*-
> 
> line. Such a line is required anyway, as of Python 2.3, if the source 
> file contains non-ascii chars.

Ah, thanks. I wasn't reading "source file" as "Python module".


Bob


From 2002 at weholt.org  Mon Oct 25 12:13:02 2004
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:13:02 +0200
Subject: Ubuntu Linux loves Python
References: <cjmc42$420$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <l79qn0hstavonfavcmbfcp2o8ffahv81n6@4ax.com>

I've been looking for a linux distro with focus on python development
for years, even dreamed about making one myself, and when it's based
on debian as well, it's like a dream come true.

Installation is short and sweet, the Gnome desktop is functional and
nice to look at and the debian package system is awsome. BUT I've
allready found some outdated packages, like pysqlite, which doesn't
work with code I've made on Windows using pysqlite 1.0. 

If the packages can be kept up to date, this distro will be the
ultimate python development platform, without a doubt.

Download and install it now!!! ( And make an updated ubuntu-package of
pysqlite while you're at it ;-) )

Thomas


On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 13:57:22 +0000 (UTC), Martin Maney
<maney at pobox.com> wrote:

>Apologies if this isn't news here - I've been too busy this last week
>or so for even skimming the traffic here, in part because I've been
>messing around with Ubuntu's preview release on a spare machine... and,
>of course, spending time on their very busy mailing list.  :-)  I didn't
>find any mention of Ubuntu in a quick scan of recent messages, so...
>
>  Ubuntu is a Linux distribution that starts with the breadth of Debian
>  and adds regular releases (every six months), a clear focus on the
>  user and usability (it should "Just Work", TM) and a commitment to
>  security updates with 18 months of support for every release.
>
>The first release is scheduled for October 20th if I recall the
>announcement correctly.  But I started out to write about the Python
>aspect of this.  A while ago I had seen one of the project members make
>a passing remark about how dedicated they were to having "insanely
>great support for Python" in Ubuntu, but I only realized that this was
>a literal statement of policy when I finally wandered over to their
>"bounties" page (http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/bounties):
>
>  Here are some software projects for Ubuntu that are available as paid
>  bounties. ... The 2004 budget for these bounties is USD 100,000. ...
>
>  Ubuntu prefer the community to do the work in Python. Here are some
>  Python-related projects that are up for bounties:
>
>  Python scripting everywhere ...  Bounties will be offered on Python
>  scripting interfaces for the following tools: OpenOffice, Blender,
>  AbiWord, Gnumeric, The GIMP
>
>  Mozilla work [each of these is a separate bounty item]: Thunderbird
>  message filing quick access; Thunderbird message filing intelligence;
>  Browser error pages Thunderbird SMTP message queueing
>
>  Bugzilla bounty tracking
>
>And they list a few bounties that have already been awarded (I'm not
>sure if that means completed or just "contracted", but I suspect both
>are represented).  With the emphasis on Python, as well as the overall
>quality of the work I've seen in the work still in progress, I think
>Ubuntu is of more than passing interest to anyone interested in Linux
>or Python, and especially to those interested in both.



From pcm at cpugrid.net  Wed Oct  6 01:00:40 2004
From: pcm at cpugrid.net (P.M.)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 22:00:40 -0700
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044 at news.indigo.ie>...
> 
> I agree that it could potentially be a serious hindrance for cpython if 
> "multiple core" CPUs become commonplace. This is in contrast to jython 
> and ironpython, both of which support multiple-cpu parallelism.
> 
> Although I completely accept the usual arguments offered in defense of 
> the GIL, i.e. that it isn't a problem in the great majority of use 
> cases, I think that position will become more difficult to defend as 
> desktop CPUs sprout more and more execution pipelines.

I wonder if Python could be changed to use thread local storage?  That
might allow for multiple interpreter instances without the GIL (I've
never looked at the actual code so I'm just hypothesizing).  I took a
quick look at Lua today and it has no problems with creating multiple
instances of the interpreter, so it definately is a solvable problem.


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 22 06:48:10 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:48:10 -0400
Subject: Executing python scripts
In-Reply-To: <1gm1wel.1ges7191uvohktN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <d3502feb.0410212159.2f72d92b@posting.google.com>
	<1gm1wel.1ges7191uvohktN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C_udnZ__abX3eOXcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Shufen <s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>Can someone please advice me on the differences between this:
>>#!/usr/bin/env python and these: #!/usr/local/bin/python or
>>#!/usr/bin/python?
>>
>>I know the first one locates the Python interpreter according to my
>>system searching path setting. But I read about an article that
> 
> Right.  The other two hardwire the location.  The first will not work on
> an installation which only has Python in /usr/bin, and viceversa.

To clarify (since I misunderstood this when I first read it): Alex
means "the first of the these", referring to the two that don't
look in the search path, when he writes "the first" (and not the
previously referenced "first one" as it seems, at first :-).

-Peter


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Mon Oct 25 21:34:28 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:34:28 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5470.1098753917.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>	<1098746958.22370.116.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>	<mailman.5466.1098748601.5135.python-list@python.org>	<clk5qk$4lt$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<clk89q$5da$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<mailman.5470.1098753917.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clk9j5$5mi$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Tim Churches wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 11:12, Robert Kern wrote:

>>Whether just using system calls is simply "normal use" for a GPLd OS 
>>kernel or this is simply a special exception to the GPL for Linux only 
>>is something that a court will have to decide. But such a suit would 
>>have to be about some other GPL kernel, not Linux.
> 
> 
> Looks like it is a special exception for the Linux kernel (or whatever
> other Linux code is distributed with this COPYING file. Doesn't apply to
> other GPLed code.

Well, not necessarily. It certainly isn't phrased as one. It is at least 
a statement of someone's (Linus's?) belief that standard applications 
that only use system calls and running on Linux are not derivative works 
with respect to Linux. Are Windows programs actual derivative works of 
the Windows kernel? Does the Windows EULA make a statement about the 
derivative status of applications?

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 08:44:48 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:44:48 +0200
Subject: [OT] New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4329.1096975106.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl6u3c.1eo6g6qc3j9vdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Mark English <Mark.English at liffe.com> wrote:
   ...
> > 1. Multi line comments
> No. There are no comments in Python.

No comment.


> > 3. Function nesting with proper lexical scope (i.e. closures) 
> The penguins do nest, yes.

But with a lexical scope that's often shockingly improper.


> 16. The ability to call a function without 
> > brackets
> You're kidding, right. Right ? Without brackets ? That's... that's just
> not possible is it ?

In fact, it works better if you use parentheses, except when the
function you're calling is the __getitem__ method of an object.


> 17. Is the Python interpreter a JIT? Does it have a 
> > bytecode?  Is it as 
> > fast as Java?
> Python is generally 2000 to 3000 times faster than Java if you run Java
> on a toaster and Python on a super-cooled space computer orbiting
> Saturn.

Roughly correct, though the exact number depends on the model of
toaster.  But in the next release of Python, we're going to extend the
validity of this observation to computers orbiting Neptune (assuming
NASA does approve the grant being we're lobbyi^H^H^H^H humbly requesting
of them).


Alex


From aurora00 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 17 14:37:56 2004
From: aurora00 at gmail.com (aurora)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:37:56 -0700
Subject: Python Library Reference is tutorial, not reference
References: <opsfy32lax6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>
	<mailman.5057.1097949606.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opsf011iz16yt6e7@news.cisco.com>

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:38:17 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu>  
wrote:
> Having used (read and written) pydoc/javadoc-style documentation before,
> I am personally not a big fan of them.  I much prefer the conversational
> and sometimes tutorial style of standard Python documentation, to an
> arbitrary API reference.

Of course many documentations have good value. I just consider a  
comprehensive apidoc is as a baseline reference is necessity and the  
handwritten guide is a good complement. We can always look at source code  
or use other tools like epydoc. But really a reference should be part of  
the basic Python offering. This would be particular important to newcomers  
who will use this as the primary reference.


On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:59:58 -0400, David Goodger <goodger at python.org>  
wrote:
>
> Yes, if and only if someone puts in the effort.
>
> Are you willing to do more than just complain?  If so, please choose a
> chapter and produce a patch.  Assign it to me, and I'll make sure it
> gets applied quickly -- if the patch is of good quality.  After a few
> patches, I'll recommend to python-dev that you be granted direct CVS
> access, which would make the process that much more efficient.

I should huh. As this time I have a script to contribute. I just find out  
about this pydoc module from you guys and it meet most of my need. I've  
came up with this script to help launch it in a browser:



--pydocbr.py-------------------------------------------------------------
"""Usage: pydocbr.py [-p port]

Script to launch HTML pydoc in a web browser

options:
     -h  show this help
     -p  port number for the pydoc web server
         default 7777
"""

import pydoc
import sys
import threading
import webbrowser

def usage():
     print __doc__
     sys.exit(-1)

def main():

     port = 7777     # default port

     if len(sys.argv) > 1:
         if sys.argv[1] == '-h':
             usage()
         elif sys.argv[1] == '-p':
             try: port = int(sys.argv[2])
             except: usage()
         else:
             usage()

     # launch the browser in 0.2s
     browse = lambda: webbrowser.open("http://localhost:%d" % port)
     threading.Timer(0.2, browse).start()

     print 'Start serving pydoc at http://localhost:%d ...' % port
     pydoc.serve(port)


if __name__ == '__main__':
     main()
--------------------------------------------------------------------


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 09:08:08 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:08:08 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <1glm872.msn8nkj45sxdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4834.1097669737.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glm872.msn8nkj45sxdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d37090410140608441aeb39@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:42:24 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > The code is as follows -- still with debug code included, and lots of
> comments:
> 
> Nice!  I must be missing something (what's the role of the '__attr__'
> key you're setdefaulting into instance dicts and never using
> otherwise?), and there may be enhanceable spots such as:

The relevant part of the code is as follows (debug code removed):

    def __get__(self, instance, owner):
        if instance:
            attrdict = instance.__dict__.setdefault('__attr__', {})
            return attrdict.get(self.name, self.value)
        else:
            return self
    def __set__(self, instance, value):
        attrdict = instance.__dict__.setdefault('__attr__', {})
        attrdict[self.name] = value

The __attr__ is used as part of my descriptor implementation, and it's
an attribute of the instance. Its a dictionary whose keys are the
names of the GenericAttributes (or TypedAttributes) stored in the
instance.

The __get__() code checks if its being called from a class; in this
case, it returns the attribute itself (so I can check its name, and
other properties of the attribute, when working with class
references). But if the attribute is being called from an instance,
then it retrieves the current value of the attribute, as stored in the
instance; if the attribute wasn't initialized, it retrieves the
default value (that is an attribute of the descriptor).

An example may help to clarify things a little bit:

class Person(GenericTemplate)
    name = TypedAttribute('unknown')

john = Person()
john.name = "John Doe"
peter = Person()

In this case, john.__attr__['name'] stores the current value of the
name attribute at the instance. john.name will retrieve this value.
peter.__attr__ wasn't still initialized; if you try to retrieve the
name, it will automatically initialize the __attr__ dictionary, and
try to retrieve the value of the 'name' key; as it doesnt exist, it
retrieves the default value.

The class code is also useful. If you refer to Person.name, it will
return the attribute itself, which allows one to retrieve its own
name:

obj = Person.name
print obj.name

> 
> >             if (isinstance(fobj,StringType) or
> >                 isinstance(fobj,IntType) or
> >                 isinstance(fobj,FloatType) or
> >                 isinstance(fobj,ListType)):
> 
> isinstance accepts a tuple as its 2nd arg exactly to avoid this need;
> set once, somewhere,
> 
> elementaryTypes = StringType, IntType, FloatType, ListType

This is one of the old artifacts. I had four different tests, and for
each one of them I had a special subclass: ListAttribute,
StrAttribute, and so on. It went this way because at first I only
wrote the StrAttribute, then added another one... And I'm doing it
XP-style, "the simplest code that works". At some point I finally
managed to 'get' descriptors, and implemented the TypedAttribute
class. I simply collapsed the tests into a single one (I didn't even
retype them! just deleted the intermediate lines and "and'ed" them
together; now talk about "the simplest code that works" :-)).

In fact, there are several parts of the code that are artifacts of
some experiments that I did. I was trying to figure out how to
properly use metaclasses, descriptors, properties, a lot of stuff.
Some of the old code is still there. I also kept debug code, and I
intend to... this is something that still bothers me and is a good
topic for another thread... Debug code clutters the main code, but I
don't like to have to add it back if I ever need it. (what about
logging support at the language level, pretty much as a assert, that
can be removed from optimized code?)

I have finished right now a unittest for the metatemplate module,
including inheritance testing. Now I can start to remove the old cruft
step by step without fear that everything will break apart :-)

 > and then you can typecheck here with just
> 
>               if isinstance(fobj, elementaryTypes):
> 
> ...but if this, or the recommendation to follow PEP 8 (space after
> comma, etc) is the most important suggestion I have to offer about your
> code, I guess that's a good sign!-)

I re-read PEP8 a few days ago. Some things are a matter of personal
style, and a little harder to change; for instance, I prefer to align
sequences of assignments vertically, something that Guido reportedly
loathes. But I'm already adhering to some recommendations, such as
right-margin and docstrings format.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 15:31:09 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 12:31:09 -0700
Subject: Open Source License Question
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<2u9hklF24n4b1U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410271131.2611f4e1@posting.google.com>

Joachim Bowman <usenet.0.lho at spamgourmet.com> wrote in message news:<2u9hklF24n4b1U1 at uni-berlin.de>...
> Hi,
> 
> Michael Foord wrote:
> > I'd also like to prevent people
> > selling derivative works where my stuff forms the substantial part of
> > the poduct.
> > 
> > I'd prefer to use an OSI approved license - but it's not essential.
> 
> These two don't go together.  Read "6. No Discrimination Against Fields 
> of Endeavor" in "The Open Source Definition"[0].
> 

I don't see a conflict at all on that point..... 

regards,

Fuzzy 

> J
> 
> [0] http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php


From i.horvath at alco.co.hu  Tue Oct 12 03:27:38 2004
From: i.horvath at alco.co.hu (Ivan Horvath)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:27:38 +0200
Subject: store binary files in mysql
In-Reply-To: <416BAA21.3040203@finsiel.ro>
References: <416B7EEA.9030500@alco.co.hu> <416BAA21.3040203@finsiel.ro>
Message-ID: <416B876A.6070704@alco.co.hu>

Hi Dragos,

thank you very much it is working fine.

Dragos Chirila wrote:

> Hi
>
> Use escape_string method from MySQLdb module.
>
> Dragos
>
>
> Ivan Horvath wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> i would like to store binary file contents to a mysql database in a 
>> mediumblob fields.
>> i've got problem when there is a simple quote, double quot, backslash 
>> or NUL character in the file content, because these characters are 
>> acceptable by mysql only when there is an escape char. before it.
>> do you know any solution, how can i replace these characters in order 
>> to import it to a mysql table?
>>
>
>



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 18:36:33 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:36:33 -0400
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <rY-dndTE6JxtMPDcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>

Maboroshi wrote:
> My question has to do with python and linux - I was interested in 
> finding out what it would take to reimplement the Linux Kernel in python 
> basically just taking the source code from linux and rewriting it in 
> python Would this idea make sense to do - if so what would be the 
> benefits of doing this and in what way would this not be a good idea

Um, you're the one suggesting a re-write.  Doesn't that mean
it's sort of your job to know the benefits of doing it?  There
are certainly endless reasons why it's not a good idea...

-Peter


From bowman at montana.com  Tue Oct 19 09:43:30 2004
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:43:30 -0600
Subject: Yahoo SMTP
References: <2tgn1sF1vnm4fU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<20041018191729.07480.00002405@mb-m18.aol.com>
Message-ID: <2tkjiqF211pv0U1@uni-berlin.de>

LutherRevisited wrote:

> I tried telnetting to Yahoo myself, but I didn't get 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN,
> I got the other things though

> telnet smtp.mail.yahoo.com 25
Trying 216.136.173.18...
Connected to smtp.mail.yahoo.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ESMTP
ehlo
250-smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
250-PIPELINING
250 8BITMIME

HELO is the SMTP, where EHLO is accepted by ESMTP servers. The response 
should be a list of the enhancements the server supports. Note that '250-' 
indicates a line of a multiline response, with '250 ' being the last line.




From ubecher at gmx.net  Thu Oct  7 14:29:42 2004
From: ubecher at gmx.net (Uwe Becher)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:29:42 +0200
Subject: 'Win32' extensions available fpr 64-bit Windows?
Message-ID: <ck41ul$udt$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi all,

does anyone know, if those windows extensions are available for IA64 
version too?

Uwe


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Oct 25 14:39:40 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:39:40 -0400
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d41a9$0$511$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<05-dnQf-wsk1suDcRVn-sQ@giganews.com>
	<417d41a9$0$511$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <FIqdnSn8hsX21eDcRVn-qA@giganews.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> That depend's on your definition of "work".

Executes the tasks it is designed to do.

Istvan.


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Oct  1 13:09:55 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:09:55 -0300 
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7A2C@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Alexander Schmolck]

#-    Otherwise ``some_string`` almost certainly will be 
#- constructed by something
#-    along the lines of ``os.system('convert %s %s' % (infile, 
#- outfile))`` which
#-    of course is broken (e.g. ``infile = "with space"``). 

I don't understand why you say that that is broken.

Do you want to do this?

>>> infile = "with space"
>>> outfile = "no_space"
>>> 'convert %s %s' % (infile, outfile)
'convert with space no_space'


Or just want to pass two args?

>>> infile = '"with space"'
>>> outfile = "no_space"
>>> 'convert %s %s' % (infile, outfile)
'convert "with space" no_space'


Or need to pass arguments with ``''`` and ``""``?

>>> infile = "\"with 'space'\""
>>> outfile = "no_space"
>>> cad = 'convert %s %s' % (infile, outfile)
>>> cad
'convert "with \'space\'" no_space'>>> 
>>> print "[%s]" % cad
[convert "with 'space'" no_space]

.	Facundo
-------------- next part --------------
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From Sonny.Baillargeon at bmonb.com  Wed Oct 27 12:25:53 2004
From: Sonny.Baillargeon at bmonb.com (Baillargeon, Sonny)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:25:53 -0400
Subject: FTP file creation date
Message-ID: <453D335C35136F4B8163C281D58BBD882DCE4D@NBNUNYCEXCH1.nesbittburns.ca>

I've done something similar using the pexpect module.  You can get the
child.before/after from an ls command and do some regexp against it to
find the filename and file date fields.

-----Original Message-----
From: [ EuGeNe ] [mailto:eugene at boardkulture.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 11:28 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: FTP file creation date

Hi all,

I would like to write a script that downloads one file from a ftp server
if the file creation date satisfy a condition.

I can't figure out how to find from a ftp server what is the creation
date of the file (using python).

Any idea?

Thanks for your help!

EuGeNe




<FONT SIZE = 1>****************************************************************************
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From jdadson at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 21:26:15 2004
From: jdadson at yahoo.com (Jive Dadson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 01:26:15 GMT
Subject: Job postings
Message-ID: <41634A6E.D0A49DCD@yahoo.com>

Where can I post a job description for a Python programmer?  He or she
would have to know both application programming in Python, and should be
able to port Python to a "friendly" operating system.

Thanks.


From jolsen at despammed.com  Sun Oct  3 06:29:10 2004
From: jolsen at despammed.com (Jesper Olsen)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 03:29:10 -0700
Subject: elementtree -
Message-ID: <e9ece60a.0410030229.28dda312@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm using the XMLWriter from the effbot element tree module:
http://effbot.org/zone/xml-writer.htm

I'd like to output the element "<span>&nbsp;</span>"
and I try this

w=XMLWriter(f)
w.element("span", "&nbsp;", id="txt")

But that does not work because "&nbsp;" gets escaped to "&amp;nbsp;"
- and using " " does not work either because space does not get
escaped...
Is there a way to do this?

Another thing I noticed is when outputting the element

<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html" />

then is not possible to generate this by passing attributes as
keywords
to the w.element method - so it is necessary to use the slightly less
elegant form

w.element("meta", None, {"http-equiv":"contenttype",
"content":"text/html"})

I guess there is no way to avoid this - since the module relies on
pythons
way of handling keyword parameters...

/Jesper


From adurdin at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 18:35:56 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:35:56 +1100
Subject: Linux and OS/X on the [desk|lap]top [was Re: Database
	Connectivity]
In-Reply-To: <1097593809.4458.69.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
	<1gl8by8.1ay6g301hrswe8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<XZfad.18001$b5.884997@news3.tin.it>
	<Bdhad.18298$b5.899971@news3.tin.it>
	<BvCdne92t9yqU_fcRVn-pw@megapath.net>
	<mailman.4723.1097525156.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gljewt.t3m4wtirod26N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1097593809.4458.69.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a04101215353482f2fa@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:10:09 -0700, Cliff Wells
<clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Actually Linux now has one single feature that makes using a laptop with
> it far more pleasurable (from my experience) than any other laptop I've
> tried: it's possible to setup the Synaptics touchpad (and Alps too,
> although it's more difficult) to have vertical and horizontal scroll
> areas (much like a scroll-wheel on a mouse, but in both directions).

This is the default setup on several recent Toshiba laptops that I've
used recently. Quite handy, though on my laptop I usually revert to
the keyboard for scrolling and other tasks and use a mouse/touchpad as
little as possible.


From listserver at tdw.net  Fri Oct  8 14:32:53 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:32:53 +0100
Subject: (solved)  smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
References: <00ab01c4ad2a$bfe9aa90$ccbefea9@twilliams><41668EDD.8090808@holdenweb.com>
	<00e701c4ad3f$b5e78390$ccbefea9@twilliams>
Message-ID: <01ee01c4ad65$396ec780$ccbefea9@twilliams>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Williams" <listserver at tdw.net>

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com>
[snip]
> Yeah,  I did wonder about changing the code  (though it's not my first
> choice. I've done it before and caught a crab later),   or could I do it
> with Subclassing?
>
>  I'm still close to Newbie status, so I can't immediately imagine what  I
> could change the smptblib code to write to,    or  how to subclass to get
> the behaviour I might need.

Doh,  still thinking of myself as close to newbie  scares me off some things
!!

I decided to bite the bullet and have a look at the code for smtplib,
(after being scared of changing it before),   and of course its what I
should have done in the first place.

The debug output in smptlib is generated in the SMTP class with lines
similar to:

if self.debuglevel > 0: print "connect:", msg

so,  I added a new variable within the class

debug_out = []

and 2 new functions within the class

    def do_debug(self,msgs):
        if self.debuglevel > 0: print msgs
        self.debug_out.append(msgs)

    def debug(self):
        return self.debug_out

and changed

if self.debuglevel > 0: print "connect:", msg

to

self.do_debug( ('connect:', msg ) )

Took me about 4 minutes !!

now I can call s.debug()  and get a list containing the debug information.
s.debug() can be called at anytime including after s.quit()

As a side benefit,  I can use s.do_debug( msg ) at any time to get the
program to add (comment) lines to the debug information.  This will be
useful when reading the full retrieved debug information at a later date.

set_debuglevel() works exactly as it did before.

I have to tidy up the formatting/handling of the messages,   and I think I'm
going to add an option to retrieve  the debug information without the
message data (as its usually superfluous to the debugging process) , but
other than that it does just what I need already.

Is it worth asking for something like this to be added permanently to
smtplib,  I can't be the only one that needs to log outgoing smtp
conversations,  or debug to a file/log ?

Thanks for everyone's help

Tim














From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 25 15:57:49 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:57:49 -0300
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<vKKdnUxHIOPNzODcRVn-2Q@powergate.ca>
	<417d5862$0$45532$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <m37jpevade.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:

> On 2004-10-25, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>
>> Evil, nasty customers, we hates them!  They asks us questions
>> and pays us money for our precioussssss time.
>
> Except they don't.  (Pay that is.)

And I thought that just us down here didn't get paid for work and had to
go after the customer to receive...  I see there's no safe place in the
world that protects us from the customer...  

If they only knew what they wanted, it would save us a *lot* of time...

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From DrColombes at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 20 12:38:10 2004
From: DrColombes at yahoo.com (Dr. Colombes)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 09:38:10 -0700
Subject: MatPlotLib question: How to get more different size plot
	symbols ?
References: <d1f3d1d3.0410190632.18196690@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5173.1098197957.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d1f3d1d3.0410200838.7ffbe99@posting.google.com>

Thanks, John.

Nothing like getting the info straight from the source.



John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.5173.1098197957.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> >>>>> "Colombes" == Colombes  <DrColombes at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>     Colombes> MatPlotLib question: How to get more different size plot
>     Colombes> symbols in the plot function ?
> 
>     Colombes> Is there a way to get different size squares (or circles
>     Colombes> or triangles, etc.) ?
> 
>     Colombes> For example, in a two dimensional plot of heights and
>     Colombes> weights of individuals, is there a way to represent also
>     Colombes> the age of the individual by the size of the plot symbol
>     Colombes> ?
> 
> Yes, you will want to use the scatter function for this.  With "plot",
> you can change the size of the symbols with the markersize keyword
> argument, but all of the markers must be the same size.  With scatter,
> the individual marker size (and colors) can vary.
> 
> See 
> 
>  example code: http://matplotlib.sf.net/examples/scatter_demo.py
> 
>  screenshot: http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html#scatter_demo2
> 
>  scatter help: http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/matplotlib.matlab.html#-scatter
> 
> scatter support the following marker shapes (currently all regular
> polygons)
> 
>     's' : square
>     'o' : circle
>     '^' : triangle up
>     '>' : triangle right
>     'v' : triangle down
>     '<' : triangle left
>     'd' : diamond
>     'p' : pentagram
>     'h' : hexagon
>     '8' : octagon
> 
> Hope this helps,
> JDH


From theller at python.net  Thu Oct 14 05:55:54 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:55:54 +0200
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4866.1097680786.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zUcbd.32564$3C6.1308279@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4875.1097688444.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Arebd.33298$3C6.1330114@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<4qky5s8r.fsf@python.net>
	<mailman.4902.1097699077.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sm8hipxx.fsf@python.net>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> writes:

> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:32:20 +0200, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:
>> And for your original question: why do you insist on your new syntax,
>> why don't you simply (as ctypes also does it) define the attributes in a
>> list, when they have to have a certain order?
>
> I can't speak for Nicolas, but I can for myself. There are three
> reasons, in my particular case:
>
> -- The order is already there, explicit in the way the code is
> written. I see no reason to be forced to state it _again_, specially
> considering the fact that this is prone to errors; for example,
> missing elements, duplicated elements, or out-of-order elements (in
> ordered differently in the code and in the list).

Yes, but a Python pogrammer wouldn't expect these two samples to give
different results:

class A(...):
    x = 1
    y = 2

class A(...):
    y = 2
    x = 1

> -- I make extensive use of nested structs. In this case it's _much_
> easier to make mistakes as the ones mentioned above.
>
> -- Using classes and inheritance, it's easy to add new members or
> redefine existing ones. But I would need to re-state the full list for
> any descendant. To make matters worse, in this case, whenever I make a
> change to the base class, I would have to change _all_ descendant
> classes. Not exactly good OO design. Of course, clever hacks could
> possibly be used, but then, it wouldn't look any better than Nicolas
> (or my own) ordered-attributes hack.

In ctyoes you write:

class POINT(Structure):
    _fields_ = [("x", c_int),
                ("y", c_int)]

which makes it explicit that _fields_ is a list, which *has* a certain
order.  And for inheritance, it's easy and explicit as well:

class COLORED_POINT(POINT):
    _fields_ = POINT._fields_ + [("color", RGB)]

> It's specially important to point out that I consider the source code
> ordering to be _explicit_, and not implicit, as some people may
> possibly say. In fact, is there anything more explicit than that? Only
> people used to Python dicts would say otherwise.

The point I'm trying to make is that too much magic most of the time
catches you later again.  But that's only my own experience.

Thomas


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct  3 19:13:48 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 19:13:48 -0400
Subject: newbie permission problem
In-Reply-To: <azO7d.404372$8_6.311894@attbi_s04>
References: <wAL7d.99503$wV.12017@attbi_s54> <7sN7d.593248$gE.589623@pd7tw3no>
	<PUN7d.296691$mD.66455@attbi_s02>
	<azO7d.404372$8_6.311894@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <fu-dnWwayaoxGv3cRVn-qg@powergate.ca>

Ann wrote:
> I found the problem just now, the file is still open when I tried
> to delete it. If I use
> 
> fp = open("filename.jpg", "rb")
> im = Image.open(fp)
> 
> then I can close fp and delete the file.
> 
> How can I just use
> im = Image.open("filename.jpg")
> without having to use a fp

I would ask why you would want to do it without using
an "fp".  The fp solution is more readable (to another
programmer, that is), more portable, and besides, it
works, so why look for a possibly more complicated
alternative just to avoid using "fp"?


From godoy at ieee.org  Tue Oct  5 11:36:22 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:36:22 -0300
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4347.1096989457.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3ekkd2n49.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> writes:

> <SNIP>
>
>>I suspect that with the same tricks used in 'lingua latina perligata'
>>you could make Perl use whitespace like Python, while keeping deeper
>>semantic aspects, such as the ability to add integers and strings, which
>>you appear to keenly desire.
>>
>>
>>Alex
>>
>>
> Really?  I can make Perl use whitespace?  Can I get rid of the horrid 
> symbols too?

perldoc English

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From arun.sivakumaran at gmail.com  Sat Oct 30 04:42:02 2004
From: arun.sivakumaran at gmail.com (Arun Sivakumaran)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 02:42:02 -0600
Subject: running a python script in the background
In-Reply-To: <20041029230524.0C07.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <371349cd.0410291923.a0bc96b@posting.google.com>
	<20041029230524.0C07.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <371349cd04103001425cfe4feb@mail.gmail.com>

Actually, I am working from a 32-bit linux client and am SSHing to a
64-bit itanium server (not sure what's being run there).

I had tried the nohup option too before, that doesn't seem to help.

Thanks,
Arun


On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:08:25 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> arun.sivakumaran at gmail.com (Arun) wrote:
> > the simulations totally in the background (the simulations run for a
> > day or two, so basically I want to start them in background and log
> > off).
> 
> > Now if I start the script in the background with "script.py &", it
> > doesn't work. I figure the reason is the system() call spawns the
> > simulator in the foreground.
> 
> > Is there a way I can make this all run in the background, while at the
> > same time ensuring that only one instance of the simulator is running?
> 
> It sounds like you are running this on *nix.  The Python interpreter is
> likely dying when you log-off due to a 'hangup' signal being called when
> you log out.
> 
> What has worked for me in the past is to SSH to localhost, executing:
> "nohup python script.py &" and disconnecting.  It should work running
> from a local terminal (without SSH), but I can't guarantee it.
> 
>  - Josiah
> 
> 


-- 
-AP
Arun.Sivakumaran at gmail.com
(720)-771-7543


From nospam at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  9 01:29:37 2004
From: nospam at hotmail.com (Dfenestr8)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 14:29:37 +0900
Subject: My file browsing script
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.09.05.29.35.109575@hotmail.com>

Earlier I posted asking for a file browsing script, for a GUI app I'd
written. Basically, I was after a graphical tool with which I could search
for files on my disk, and would return the path of a file through the
command line.

I got no reply, either because I didn't describe the problem correctly, or
because nobody could point me to such a script. So I wrote my own.

http://hairy.asscrack.net/~hairyman/file_selector.py

Please have a look at it, and give me som tips on how to improve it. In
particular, I designed it specifically for my linux system (Mandrake 10).
If I could make it x-platform that would be good.



From faheem at email.unc.edu  Sat Oct  9 15:51:34 2004
From: faheem at email.unc.edu (Faheem Mitha)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 19:51:34 GMT
Subject: integer type conversion problem/question
References: <slrncmf2hc.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<slrncmgf4i.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<slrncmgfdd.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
Message-ID: <slrncmgga6.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 19:36:13 GMT, Faheem Mitha <faheem at email.unc.edu> wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 19:31:30 GMT, Faheem Mitha <faheem at email.unc.edu> wrote:
>
>
>> I did have one followup question. If Python implements its integers as
>> signed C ints then surely 2^31 - 1 should be an integer rather than a
>> long? But I get
>>
>>  In [9]: 2**31 - 1
>>  Out[9]: 2147483647L
>>
>>  In [10]: type(2**31 - 1)
>>  Out[10]: <type 'long'>
>
> Belated followup to my own message. The following behaves as expected.
>
> In [13]: 2147483647
> Out[13]: 2147483647
>
> In [14]: 2147483648
> Out[14]: 2147483648L
>
> Apparently there is something about the ** notation that makes Python
> think of this as a long. Since Python people are more likely to know
> the answer, I'm ccing comp.lang.python despite the followup. Thanks.

Eric Brewer kindly replied (directly to me), so I'm copying it here.

********************************************************************
This is because 2**31 is a long (and *then* you subtract 1)

>>> 2**31-1
2147483647L
>>> 2**30
1073741824
>>> 2**30 + 2**30
2147483648L

Here is one way to get 2**31-1 as a regular int:

>>> 2**30 + (2**30-1)
2147483647
**********************************************************************

                                                         Faheem.


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Fri Oct 22 09:09:15 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:09:15 -0400
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>

Max M wrote:


> Have you tried PageTemplates from Zope?
> 
> They are very clever, and the macros makes it much better at reusing 
> code than anything I have seen elsewhere.

I second that. But the truth is that I really like
templating systems that are valid HTML, thus
can be manipulated in an html editor

Istvan.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 12:59:41 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:59:41 -0300
Subject: question on list comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <ckm58j$dgj$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<416e951c$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<ckm58j$dgj$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <864d370904101409591e77509b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:16:12 -0400, Darren Dale <dd55 at cornell.edu> wrote:
> I am simulating diffraction from an array of particles. I have to calculate
> a complex array for each particle, add up all these arrays, and square the
> magnitude of the result. If I do a for loop, it takes about 6-8 seconds for
> a 2000 element array added up over 250 particles. In reality, I will have
> 2500 particles, or even 2500x2500 particles.

Can't you just sum them inplace as you calculate every new array, for
each particle? Something like this (pseudo code):

result = make_empty_array()
for particle in particles:
    result += make_complex_array(particle)
return square(result)

It does not grow the result array indefinitely.... so it solves your
problem, if that's what you need/want to avoid.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 14:16:28 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:16:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How best to return a class method?
References: <ck0uvq$1qk$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041007T200358-633@post.gmane.org>

Roy Smith <roy <at> panix.com> writes:

> class domPrinter:
>     def getNodePrinter (self, nodeType):
> 	[...]
>       # return domPrinter.printUnknown
> 	return self.__class__.printUnknown

I normally feel pretty comfortable with using the class name here.  It's the 
same idea as:

>>> class C(object):
...     @classmethod
...     def f(cls):
...             pass
...
>>> C.f()

Outside the class, I freely use the class name, so inside shouldn't be too 
different.

However, these two solutions don't have exactly the same behavior because the 
__class__ attribute of an object can be set.

>>> class C(object):
...     @classmethod
...     def f(cls):
...             print "C"
...     def c1(self):
...             return self.__class__.f
...     def c2(self):
...             return C.f
...
>>> class D(C):
...     @classmethod
...     def f(cls):
...             print "D"
...
>>> c = C()
>>> c.c1()()
C
>>> c.c2()()
C
>>> c.__class__ = D
>>> c.c1()()
D
>>> c.c2()()
C

So which version you want to use depends on the behavior you want.  Do you 
always want the printUnknown of domPrinter?  If so, use 
domPrinter.printUnknown.  If you want the printUnknown for the class of the 
self parameter, use self.__class__.printUnknown


Steve



From luismg at gmx.net  Wed Oct 13 15:04:54 2004
From: luismg at gmx.net (Neuruss)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 12:04:54 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <278de0e.0410131104.2109521e@posting.google.com>

I've been playing with Booish a litle bit, but there are some things
that I don't understand very well, and unfortunately, there's little
documentation so far to read...

I wonder if you could explain with an example how the static typing
and the type inference work in Boo.
I'd like to know "where", "when" and "how" should I declare types and
when I shouldn't.

Also, I'm not sure what you guys understand for "type inference". I
used to think that it was a way to find out the types of the variables
without having to declare them, but since Boo is statically typed,
where does type inference fit in? How?


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Oct 27 13:35:09 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:35:09 -0400
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
In-Reply-To: <1098897974.417fda36e697f@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>
References: <1098897974.417fda36e697f@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <417FDC4D.2090500@bellsouth.net>

Ajay wrote:

>hi!
>
>is there an authoritative source on the performance of scripting languages
>such as python vs. something like java, c, c++.
>
>its for a report, so it would be awesome if i could quote some well-known
>authority on this.
>
>thanks
>
>cheers
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>  
>
There's always the Language Shootout Site:

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/


Jeremy Jones


From hs at byteconcepts.de  Tue Oct 19 20:34:04 2004
From: hs at byteconcepts.de (Henri Schomaecker)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:34:04 +0200
Subject: unsigned char array -> buffer
References: <cl0pj4$pj9$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cl4bpo$ocq$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Many thanks for the interest, 
I found it out by myself now:

I just didn't realise the special behaviour of pythons print command.
I printed out the Content-type with the print command and didn't notice the
behaviour to add a newline automatically. So I had three newlines between
the Content-type line and the imagedata. It looked like the setting of
stdout to binary mode didn't work.

This works: 

8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------

imgObj = win32com.client.Dispatch("mine.imgsender")

msvcrt.setmode(sys.stdout.fileno(), os.O_BINARY)

print 'Content-Type: image/jpeg\n'
sys.stdout.write(imgObj.getImgData())

8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------

The most stupid mistakes are the hardest to find ;-)
Anyway, now everything is great.
Many thanks,
    yours Henri

-- 
| Henri Schom?cker - BYTECONCEPTS, VIRTUAL HOMES
| ? ? Datendesign f?r Internet und Intranet
| ? ? ? ? http://www.byteconcepts.de
| ? ? ? ? http://www.virtual-homes.de


From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Oct  6 05:58:31 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:58:31 +0200
Subject: c compiler on Windows
Message-ID: <4163c182$0$260$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

I have a midi library in Python, that currently only works on midi files.

http://www.mxm.dk/products/public/pythonmidi

I want to make it work on realtime midi, with hardware in and out ports.

Currently I am only interrested in making it work on Windows.

So I need to get a bit closer to the metal by using c, as I need to use 
timers and other low level stuff. Also the windows midi api is for c, so 
I want to write a few small programs in c to get a feel for it.

I am not big on c, but I look forward to learn/refresh it.

Now I wonder wich compiler I should use. I don't have backwards 
compatibility issues, but I my goal is to write an interface in wxPython 
later, that uses the library.

Previously I would just use VS 6.0, but as far as I understand later 
versions of Python are compiled with visual.NET.

So what compiler should I get and install for my purpose?


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From shalabh at cafepy.com  Wed Oct  6 23:42:41 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:42:41 -0700
Subject: Metaclass Question
In-Reply-To: <9B63271C-17E9-11D9-BD3F-000A95DA8A1C@cogeco.ca>
References: <9B63271C-17E9-11D9-BD3F-000A95DA8A1C@cogeco.ca>
Message-ID: <ck2drj$q9l$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jay Parlar wrote:
> I decided to finally bite the bullet, and become part of the 1% of 
> people who understand metaclasses.

..snipped..

> My class here is close, but the problem is with my 'def new_func'. For 
> some reason I assumed that "new instances" of it would get created for 
> each method being overridden, but they're not.

..snipped..

> Is there any way to make new instances of a function, short of a lambda?

Although new functions are created every time you go over the def 
statement in the loop, the func_name variable inside the function gets 
bound to the same object at the end. The solution is to use another 
function to produce fuctions. Wonder if I made any sense. I couldn't get 
your code to do anything on my machine, though.

Anyways, here is a much simpler version which does the same thing:

---
def make_func(fname, func):
    def new_func(self, *args, **kw):
       self.current_function = fname
       return func(self, *args, **kw)
    return new_func

class MethodNameGetter(type):

    def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict_):
       super(MethodNameGetter, cls).__init__(name, bases, dict_)

       funcs = [(fname,func) for fname,func in dict_.items() if 
isinstance(func, FunctionType)]

       for fname, func in funcs:
          new_func = make_func(fname, func)
          setattr(cls, fname, new_func)
          setattr(cls, '_old_' + fname, func)
---

HTH,
Shalabh



From nospam at nowhere.com  Wed Oct 13 14:53:04 2004
From: nospam at nowhere.com (Greg Copeland)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:53:04 -0500
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 11)
References: <mailman.4724.1097527415.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mailman.5007.1097847968.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:45:07 +0000, Ville Vainio wrote:
>     Global interpreter lock of CPython and multi-CPU scalability are
>     a recurrent theme in comp.lang.python. The current concern involves
>     the upcoming availability and popularity of multicore CPUs.
>         http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f40posting.google.com


This URL appears to be bad.

Greg



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 04:34:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:34:44 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<UWt8d.3156$UP1.2886@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<tyffz4scojl.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1gl8cp9.1djml3pkru2mgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
   ...
> Some might argue that this is not the message passing paradigm, as (in
> their opinion) the message passing paradigm mandates that _all_
> interaction with the object be done via messages, and they might
> (justifiably) argue that "x.y" is _not_ really a message.

I don't see the "justifiably" part -- how does the choice of syntax
sugar make some operation "really a message" or not?!


> But then, many would say that Python is not object-oriented at all, as
> it does not have access restriction (enforced privacy).

And others have put down in writing that "being really object-oriented"
absolutely requires static typing (!) -- which means that Smalltalk
isn't Object Oriented, either.  The fact that people can and do say
totally idiotic things (often when they're trying to sell you snake oil,
or trying to keep their self-respect after having bought snake oil
themselves) doesn't mean much -- it's just a reflection on the natural
history of domesticated primates.  _We_ of course don't need snake oil,
since we have the whole snake...


Alex


From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Oct 17 01:30:05 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:30:05 -0700
Subject: Anything like 'inspect.getsourceencoding()'?
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F8F@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> Is there a convenient way to find the encoding of a source file?

Short answer: no, you have to guess. But check out some good guessing
algorithms at e.g. http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/decodeh.py


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Oct  3 22:50:43 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:50:43 -0500
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
In-Reply-To: <691232ce.0410030304.2f84c04b@posting.google.com>
	(HansWL@msn.com's message of "3 Oct 2004 04:04:59 -0700")
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>
	<cjj9sd$hg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
	<mailman.4177.1096637180.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<691232ce.0410030304.2f84c04b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2d5zz9oxo.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "HansWL" == HansWL  <HansWL at msn.com> writes:

    HansWL> I tried matplotlib 0.63 with Python 2.3.4 on an old Win98
    HansWL> machine (500 MHz, 128 MB RAM) and found that I had to wait
    HansWL> for at least 35 seconds before even the simplest demo plot
    HansWL> appeared. Is this expected?

No it is not expected.  My guess is that something may be wrong with
your configuration.  While I don't have anything as clunky as your
machine to test on <wink>, I do have python 2.3.4 with the same
matplotlib on a 700MHz win98 box with 512 MB RAM.  On that machine,
the standard simple plot (eg
http://matplotlib.sf.net/examples/simple_plot.py) takes about 2s to
launch.  Although your machine is a bit slower and has a good bit less
memory, it's in the same ball park, and my test run is 15 times faster
than yours.  I'm don't think the difference in RAM is the cause of the
difference in performance, because matplotlib doesn't use anywhere
near the amount of RAM you have on your system to make a simple plot.

Try saving`q the simple plot script linked above to your desktop and
running it by double clicking on it.  Does that help?  If so, you may
have an IDE conflict, as described on
http://matplotlib.sf.net/faq.html#FREEZE .  Another common source of
troubles is an incompatible Numeric / numarray setting - see
http://matplotlib.sf.net/faq.html#SLOW .  A third possibility is that
your system is compromised by a virus or is running so many programs
in the background (system tray) that it is out of RAM or some other
resource.

If you continue having trouble, it would help if you could post your
platform informations and other settings (see
http://matplotlib.sf.net/.matplotlibrc) to the matplotlib mailing
list.

Hope this helps,
JDH




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Oct 27 14:05:09 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:05:09 +0200
Subject: distutils for non-python windows installers
In-Reply-To: <u1xfkk00q.fsf@rk-speed-rugby.dk>
References: <u1xfkk00q.fsf@rk-speed-rugby.dk>
Message-ID: <417fe349$0$202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Brian Elmegaard wrote:
> I can find a few questions regarding the use of distutils for making
> non-python windows installers, but none of them really helps. Are
> there any pointers on how to do this? Can it be done?

To my knowledge, the answer is no. The resulting installer will look
for an existing Python installation on the target machine, and refuse
to operate if none can be found.

Of course, you have the complete source code of that installer
(including the code to the user interface), so you can adjust
it to your needs.

> A little OT: What about making MSI installation files instead of .exe?
> Is it a good idea to consider at all?

I would always recommend creating MSI files over some proprietary .exe
installers, as it allows for better customization, unattended
installation, and network installations.

If you want to do that using Python, please have a look at my Python
installer in the Tools/msi directory of Python 2.4b1.

Regards,
Martin


From mwh at python.net  Fri Oct 15 07:51:18 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:51:18 GMT
Subject: importing over network
References: <ckod02$lk9$1@planja.arnes.si>
Message-ID: <m3lle8xkqz.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Bo?tjan Jerko <bostjan.jerko at mf.uni-lj.si> writes:

> Is there a possibility to do import over the network?  I would like
> to put all my modules on a server and import them over the network
> (internet or LAN).

Well, it's probably possible, but I'm not sure about easy or wise.
Something like NFS or samba is surely easier...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  In that case I suggest that to get the correct image you look at
  the screen from inside the monitor whilst standing on your head.  
               -- James Bonfield, http://www.ioccc.org/2000/rince.hint


From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Thu Oct  7 10:39:44 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:39:44 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck3kfg$asp$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp>

P.M. wrote:
> I wonder if Python could be changed to use thread local storage?  That
> might allow for multiple interpreter instances without the GIL (I've
> never looked at the actual code so I'm just hypothesizing).  I took a
> quick look at Lua today and it has no problems with creating multiple
> instances of the interpreter, so it definately is a solvable problem.

Most VMs don't use thread local storage, but rather keep all state in 
one object that is passed through all the functions. This is probably 
solvable in Python.

But this would only allow to run multiple Python VMs in the same 
process. These VMs couldn't communicate through Python objects, but only 
through IPC. Each VM would still require a ILL (Interpreter Local Lock). 
It wouldn't be that different from actually having multiple processes.

Zope wouldn't benefit at all.
Apache with threads + mod_python could benefit, but caching session 
state in Python variables becomes much harder.

Daniel


From srijitb at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 23:43:59 2004
From: srijitb at gmail.com (Srijit Kumar Bhadra)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 20:43:59 -0700
Subject: Example Code - Python+PythonNet, Ironpython, Boo
References: <221d8dbe.0409302041.3798265d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <19174e08.0410011943.5dad0bcd@posting.google.com>

Hello,
There are mistakes in the comments. I shall update it.

With regards,
Srijit

srijit at yahoo.com wrote in message news:<221d8dbe.0409302041.3798265d at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> Here is an example code of xml writer in Python+PythonNet, Ironpython
> and Boo. The codes look very similar.
> 
> Regards,
> Srijit
> 
> Python + PythonNet:
> 
> import CLR
> import CLR.System
> from CLR.System import Console as CLR_Console
> import CLR.System.Xml as CLR_Xml
> 
> true = 1
> false = 0
> filename = "test1.xml"
> writer = CLR_Xml.XmlTextWriter(filename, None);
> #~ Use indenting for readability.
> writer.Formatting = CLR_Xml.Formatting.Indented;
> 
> writer.WriteComment("XML in Boo Language");
> 
> #~ Write an element (this one is the root).
> writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");
> 
> #~ Write the namespace declaration.
> writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", None,
> "urn:schoolnames");
> 
> writer.WriteStartElement("School");
> 
> #~ Lookup the prefix and then write the ISBN attribute.
> prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
> writer.WriteEndAttribute();     
> 
> #~ Write the title.
> writer.WriteStartElement("city");
> writer.WriteString("Madurai");
> writer.WriteEndElement();
>   
> #~ Write the price.
> writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");
> 
> #~ Write the style element.
> writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
> writer.WriteEndElement();
> 
> #~ Write the end tag for the book element.
> writer.WriteEndElement();
> 
> #~ Write the close tag for the root element.
> writer.WriteEndElement();
>  
> #~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
> writer.Flush();
> writer.Close();
> 
> #~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
> doc = CLR_Xml.XmlDocument();
> #~ Preserve white space for readability.
> doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
> #~ Load the file
> doc.Load(filename);
> 
> #~ Write the XML content to the console.
> CLR_Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);
> 
> 
> Ironpython:
> 
> from System import *
> from System.Xml import *
> 
> true = 1
> false = 0
> filename = "test1.xml"
> writer = XmlTextWriter(filename, None);
> #~ Use indenting for readability.
> writer.Formatting = Formatting.Indented;
> 
> writer.WriteComment("XML in Boo Language");
> 
> #~ Write an element (this one is the root).
> writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");
> 
> #~ Write the namespace declaration.
> writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", None,
> "urn:schoolnames");
> 
> writer.WriteStartElement("School");
> 
> #~ Lookup the prefix and then write the ISBN attribute.
> prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
> writer.WriteEndAttribute();     
> 
> #~ Write the title.
> writer.WriteStartElement("city");
> writer.WriteString("Madurai");
> writer.WriteEndElement();
>   
> #~ Write the price.
> writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");
> 
> #~ Write the style element.
> writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
> writer.WriteEndElement();
> 
> #~ Write the end tag for the book element.
> writer.WriteEndElement();
> 
> #~ Write the close tag for the root element.
> writer.WriteEndElement();
>  
> #~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
> writer.Flush();
> writer.Close();
> 
> #~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
> doc = XmlDocument();
> #~ Preserve white space for readability.
> doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
> #~ Load the file
> doc.Load(filename);
> 
> #~ Write the XML content to the console.
> Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);
> 
> 
> Boo:
> 
> import System
> import System.Xml from System.Xml
> 
> filename = "test1.xml"
> writer = XmlTextWriter(filename, null);
> #~ Use indenting for readability.
> writer.Formatting = Formatting.Indented;
> 
> writer.WriteComment("XML in Boo Language");
> 
> #~ Write an element (this one is the root).
> writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");
> 
> #~ Write the namespace declaration.
> writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", null,
> "urn:schoolnames");
> 
> writer.WriteStartElement("School");
> 
> #~ Lookup the prefix and then write the ISBN attribute.
> prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
> writer.WriteEndAttribute();     
> 
> #~ Write the title.
> writer.WriteStartElement("city");
> writer.WriteString("Madurai");
> writer.WriteEndElement();
>   
> #~ Write the price.
> writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");
> 
> #~ Write the style element.
> writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
> writer.WriteEndElement();
> 
> #~ Write the end tag for the book element.
> writer.WriteEndElement();
> 
> #~ Write the close tag for the root element.
> writer.WriteEndElement();
>  
> #~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
> writer.Flush();
> writer.Close();
> 
> #~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
> doc = XmlDocument();
> #~ Preserve white space for readability.
> doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
> #~ Load the file
> doc.Load(filename);
> 
> #~ Write the XML content to the console.
> Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 16 11:45:11 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:45:11 -0700
Subject: pyc files located elsewhere?
In-Reply-To: <m3vfdasuvz.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
References: <m3vfdasuvz.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <20041016084129.09D8.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> I would like it if my .pyc files could be in a subdir of the app root
> if possible.  I would have to make sure that the subdir structure
> underneath matched the structure of the app itself.
> 
> I would also consider having each package directory have its own PYC
> directory and the compiled files could go in there even.
> 
> So, can I feed a prefix to the system that checks for and creates .pyc
> files somehow?  My review of the Pydocs for related compilation issues
> didn't seem to turn up an answer.

I don't know if it is possible to automatically write to a different
path, but I /think/ one can /turn off/ writing .pyc files, but it would
necessarily make running the script slower (you don't get cached .pyc
files, so every import requires a py->ptc compilation).

 - Josiah



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Oct 19 20:51:25 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:51:25 -0700
Subject: Threads in embedded interpreter doesn't run
In-Reply-To: <ba9d8463.0410191255.5bb8bd7f@posting.google.com>
References: <ba9d8463.0410191255.5bb8bd7f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10nbdfqhgkgra70@corp.supernews.com>

devrim.erdem at gmail.com wrote:

>Could anyone give me some hints to understand why the thread can not
>execute during my application loop.
>  
>

This is a complete shot in the dark, but is there any chance that your 
rendering loop is holding on to the Python GIL?  Doing so would prevent 
any (other) Python code from running for as long as the lock is held.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From ConfuseYourSpamBot-parzp at ConfuseYourSpamBot.shaw.ca  Sat Oct  9 02:08:20 2004
From: ConfuseYourSpamBot-parzp at ConfuseYourSpamBot.shaw.ca (Parzival)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 06:08:20 GMT
Subject: How do I refer to a data file relative to a package or installation
	directory?
Message-ID: <ofL9d.675591$gE.224720@pd7tw3no>

I have a package that includes some data files. I am planning to use a
distutils setup script to install the package. How can I compute a path
name for such a data file that will always be relative to my package
root directory (i.e. both when installed, and in my development directory?)

Or to rephrase, say the data file is mypkg/data/foo.dat relative to the
package root "mypkg" (the directory that holds __init__.py). Is there an
enquiry that will return the absolute path prefix for mypkg?


-- Parzival
-- Reply-to is confuggled: parzp (@) shaw (.) ca



From srumbalski at copper.net  Sun Oct  3 14:05:13 2004
From: srumbalski at copper.net (Steven Rumbalski)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 14:05:13 -0400
Subject: How do you write this in python
References: <8f17f4bc.0410022000.e331cbe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41603d90_1@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Ali wrote:

> I have the following webpage with a javasctript in it:
> 
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>Custom Objects Test</title>
> <script language="javascript">
> function PrintCard() {
> line1 = "<hr>\n";
> line2 = "<b>Name: </b>" + this.name + "<br>\n";
> line3 = "<b>Email: </b>" + this.email + "<br>\n";
> document.write(line1, line2, line3);
> }
> function Card(name,email) {
> this.name = name;
> this.email = email;
> this.PrintCard = PrintCard;
> }
> </script>
> </head>
> <body>
> <script language="javascript">
> ali = new Card("Ali", "alik at alik.com");
> zainab = new Card("Zainab", "zainab at zainab.com");
> 
> ali.PrintCard();
> zainab.PrintCard();
> </script>
> </body>
> </html>
Are you looking for something like this?

class Card:
    def __init__(self, name, email):
        self.name = name
        self.email = email
    def tohtml(self):
        output = [ '<hr>\n',
                   '<b>Name: </b>', self.name, '<br>\n',
                   '<b>Email: </b>', self.email, '<br>\n' ]
        return ''.join(output)

ali = Card('Ali', 'alik at alik.com')
zainab = Card('Zainab', 'zainab at zainab.com')

print ali.tohtml()
print zainab.tohtml()


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Oct 17 21:36:15 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:36:15 -0700
Subject: md5 and large files
References: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<4172a5f6$0$28202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4172AA52.9030606@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <sgjb42-phv.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> I would like to verify that the files are not corrupt so what's the
> most efficient way to calculate md5 sums on 4GB files? The machine
> doing the calculations is a small desktop with 256MB of RAM.

If you need to be 100% certain, then only doing md5sum over the entire
file will work as Tim points out.

If you don't need to be 100% certain, then you can pick random blocks
out of the file and check their sums only.  The more blocks you use,
the more certain you will be.

You may also want to consider external tools such as rsync which can
transfer large files, but also when the source changes sends the minimum
to keep the destination up to date.  It will also cope correctly (and
efficiently) if network connections break during transfers.

Other things you can do is use the random method above to check a few
blocks (always check the begining and end since they would be the most
likely to be corrupted), and then schedule a more thorough background
check on the files which you may be able to offload to another machine
or another time.

The one thing you don't want to do is check multiple files at the same
time.  That will cause the disk heads to keep jumping around and drastically
slow overal disk throughput.

You also didn't say if you are actually having a performance problem.  On
my machine, I did some timing tests against a 2GB file.  Using the md5sum
program that comes with the operating system, it took 47.5 seconds.  I
then tried the Python md5sum program.  It took 57 seconds with 8kb or 64kb
buffer sizes but 65.8 seconds with a 1MB buffer size.  (The Python times
include the time to start and stop the interpretter).

So in my case the machine can do 1GB every 30 seconds (ATA100 controller
and disk under Linux).

Roger 




From python at rcn.com  Sun Oct 24 01:50:58 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 22:50:58 -0700
Subject: key argument for max?
References: <mailman.5265.1098376117.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm27ma.114npm917y3imlN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0410232150.3912fd7f@posting.google.com>

[Steven Bethard]
> > I was wondering if there's any plans to add a "key" argument to max
> > (and min) like was done for sort(ed)?  I fairly often run into a

[Alex Martelli]
> Unfortunately, no.  I think that the excellent key= optional argument to
> sort should be extended to every order-related Python tidbit; min and
> max are examples, but so should the heapq module's functions.
> Unfortunately, this idea wasn't liked by the python-dev consensus back
> in 2.4's formative stages, and it's now too late for any functional
> changes to 2.4.  So, we can take it up again for 2.5 at some time.

It should definitely be pursued for Py2.5.   I'm the one who shot it
down the first time it came up and now wish that it had gotten a full
hearing.

The issue was political.  Getting a key= argument for sort() was a big
win; however, proposing to propagate the idea could have jeopardized
everything by arousing the ire of the gathering anti-change movement.



Raymond Hettinger


P.S.  The heapq module's new nsmallest() and nlargest() functions are
suitable for the key= argument; however, the other functions are not. 
Unfortunately, the heap is not a collection object in its own right. 
I don't see a way to attach an ordering function or a reversed=
argument for the whole heap.  Such arguments would have to be passed
on every call to heapify(), heappop(), heappush(), and heapreplace().


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Thu Oct  7 18:37:07 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:37:07 +0100
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4519.1097171627.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
	<41648bae$1@nntp.zianet.com>	<41656DA0.5030509@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.4519.1097171627.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ck4gen$dho$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> Note that (x is not None) evaluates to True, not x.  Note that you can't solve 
> this by introducing an 'and' either because {} evaluates to False in a boolean 
> context:

Right. However you can do [x, {}][x is None].

But please don't! <double wink>
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From donnal at donnal.net  Mon Oct 18 15:59:37 2004
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:59:37 -0500
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
In-Reply-To: <qnkhdorg72k.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
References: <mailman.5015.1097859379.5135.python-list@python.org>	<ckp0vj$r1g$00$1@news.t-online.com>	<1glsuhc.10eukauy09rs8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<ckuad9$nba$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<qnkhdorg72k.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <cl17ba$7s3$1@sea.gmane.org>

David M. Cooke wrote:
> "Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> writes:
>>def foo(items=None):
>>    if not items is None:
> 
> 
> Or the more readable (IMO):
> 
> def foo(items=None):
>     if items is not None:
>        ...
> 
> They're equivalent, but a reader could see 'not items is None' as
> '(not items) is None)' [although it's not].
> 

As I mentioned in a previous post this morning, the default items = {} 
is now a somewhat irrelevant side-issue, but your comment here will help 
me in a dozen other locations. For some reason it had never occurred to 
me that "items is not None" would be equivalent to "not items is none" 
because I made a wrong assumption about the nature of the *is* operator. 
But a quick shell session shows that you are quite right.

 >>> x = None
 >>> not x is None
False
 >>> x is not None
False
 >>> y = {}
 >>> not y is None
True
 >>> y is not None
True
 >>>

Thank you.

Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital




From adonisv at DELETETHISTEXTearthlink.net  Fri Oct 29 11:05:13 2004
From: adonisv at DELETETHISTEXTearthlink.net (Adonis)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:05:13 GMT
Subject: Question about PyList
Message-ID: <J_sgd.13543$ta5.6964@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Is there a C API equivalent to list.extend() and list.pop()? I have looked 
through the documentation and googled, but nothing pinning the donkey.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Adonis 




From anna at aleax.it  Sun Oct 10 16:47:29 2004
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Martelli Ravenscroft)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:47:29 GMT
Subject: Database Connectivity
In-Reply-To: <XZfad.18001$b5.884997@news3.tin.it>
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
	<1gl8by8.1ay6g301hrswe8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<XZfad.18001$b5.884997@news3.tin.it>
Message-ID: <Bdhad.18298$b5.899971@news3.tin.it>

Anna Martelli Ravenscroft wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
>> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>    ...
>>
>>>>> I want to develope a simple Database connectivity program with python.
>>>>> I want to use MS Access as a backend.
>>>
>>>
>>>      Access, itself, is merely a GUI builder front-end. You are
>>> likely using M$ JET as the database engine.
>>
>>
>>
>> Amen!  People keep making this mistake over and over and over again.
>> Access is a product Microsoft sells; Jet is one they give away for free;
>> etc, etc -- how CAN it be so hard to distinguish?!
> 
> 
> How can it be so hard to distinguish?
> 
> Gee - how about - cuz M$ doesn't bother telling you? It *says* M$ Access 
> - right there on the package and on the computer. It doesn't say M$ 
> Jet... I used M$ Access for years, even took classes in it, did some 
> pretty kewl stuff with it. Never was Jet mentioned anywhere at anytime. 
> I found out from a geek buddy by accident one day...
> 
> BTW: I just did a google check:
> 
> the Product Overview page for M$ Access 2003 doesn't mention Jet once!
> http://www.microsoft.com/office/access/prodinfo/overview.mspx
> 
> Nor does the Data Access and Storage Developer Center page! 
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/data/Default.aspx
> 
> and it ain't just M$. I found a lovely page called AccesSolutions: 
> Microsoft Access Database Solutions, with not a single mention of Jet.
> 
> In other words, if you didn't already *know*, you're damned unlikely to 
> find out until some "real" database geek gives you a hard time about not 
> knowing.
> 
> 
> Anna

Just to follow up on this - I think this is another case of M$ evility. 
They *like* that people think of Access as a database - cuz if people 
realized that they could use another database, they might realize they 
could also use *another* front end.

So, I really don't think it's deliberate blurring of the lines by the 
*users* of M$ Access, so much as by M$, and the poor users simply don't 
know any better.

I want to emphasize that I understand how frustrating it is to keep 
coming across the same myths and misunderstandings, and that c.l.py is 
great for gently pointing out the real information to folks.

Anna


From pcooke at philc.net  Mon Oct 11 04:34:14 2004
From: pcooke at philc.net (PhilC)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:34:14 -0400
Subject: 2D height map to 3D model?
References: <skfgm0pev6ld2p6k7n2e9q1tt442kselh9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c3hkm0t2qssg3nph4nomchd3due6hj2jqb@4ax.com>

Thanks Richard,

I was actually thinking of faces but an aerial photograph would be
similar. I'll check through those links and see if they help.

Again my appreciation for your reply.

PhilC



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct 18 18:46:56 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:46:56 -0700
Subject: Building email threads from unix mailboxes
In-Reply-To: <1098138259.303424.280500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1098138259.303424.280500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041018154358.0A52.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> Is it enough to get the In-Reply-To header for each message and build a
> dictionary of { Message-ID: message } pairs?  Or is it more complicated
> than that?

To be RFC 2822 compliant, In-Reply-To and References are sufficient. 
Other clients may add more headers, and not all clients are RFC 2822
compliant.

 - Josiah



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 13 08:00:44 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:00:44 +0100
Subject: Snakelets and WSGI
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4806.1097643533.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4806.1097643533.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xN8bd.33308$Z14.13411@news.indigo.ie>

[Irmen de Jong]
 >>Pardon my ignorance, but would it be feasible for a server such
 >>as Snakelets to implement both the WSGI API, *and* the existing
 >>'native' API?

Yes, of course.

The choice would between which one to use could even be made at runtime, 
and could differ for each request, e.g. based on cofiguration, request 
parameters, etc.

The code could look something like this

return_html = ['<html>', '<etc>', '</html>']
if use_iterator_interface:
	yield return_html
else:
	write("".join(return_html))
	yield []

 >>If I want this, and I understand WSGI correctly, this would
 >>require something that the WSGI spec calls "WSGI-Middleware".
 >>Right?

No. See code above.

[Robert Brewer]
 > Snakelets are more problematic, because WSGI heavily prefers a "server
 > pull" model over write() calls. You'd probably have to deprecate
 > Snakelets as written (or wrap write() so it queues their output as
 > well), replacing them eventually with a model that yields values rather
 > than calling write().

Hmm, that's a little heavy handed.

Yes, WSGI is designed to "heavily prefer" iterators, for a whole load of 
good reasons.

However, WSGI also recognises that most of the existing thread-based 
frameworks out there would require significant rewrite in order to 
support this, so it explicitly adds support for "legacy" direct read and 
write of IO channels. This legacy support was explicitly added to make 
porting existing frameworks such as Snakelets *much* *much* *much* easier.

Irmen, I really don't expect that you would have a major porting job on 
your hands.

Although if you decide to rewrite Snakelets to take advantage of the 
iterator interface, you might have some significant rewriting to do, but 
this is *not* required.

[Robert Brewer]
 > Middleware would be for things like statistics, content rewriting, and
 > such, which existing servers (and apps) provide, but which are not
 > server-specific. Most commonly, that's going to be services which apply
 > directly to the HTTP stream, not to either your server or your app
 > framework. Looking quickly over Snakelets I don't see many candidates
 > for middleware.

The concept of middleware that is portable between frameworks is a 
future concept. Although it is a future goal that middleware components 
be portable *between frameworks*, that is currently not the case. As 
Paul Boddie says in another message, the current goal is to enable 
portability of frameworks between server environments: a very worthy 
goal, and a major achievement for WSGI if it works.

As for what middleware components, portable or otherwise, could do, read 
Ian Bicking's thoughts on the subject

http://blog.colorstudy.com/ianb/weblog/2004/08/22.html#P150
http://blog.colorstudy.com/ianb/weblog/2004/08/25.html#P151
http://blog.colorstudy.com/ianb/weblog/2004/08/18.html#P148

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From rynt at 9yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 14:17:30 2004
From: rynt at 9yahoo.com (R Baumann)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:17:30 -0700
Subject: Database Connectivity
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
	<1gl8by8.1ay6g301hrswe8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<XZfad.18001$b5.884997@news3.tin.it>
	<Bdhad.18298$b5.899971@news3.tin.it>
Message-ID: <BvCdne92t9yqU_fcRVn-pw@megapath.net>


"Anna Martelli Ravenscroft" <anna at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:Bdhad.18298$b5.899971 at news3.tin.it...
> Anna Martelli Ravenscroft wrote:
> > Alex Martelli wrote:
> >
> >> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >>    ...
> >>
> >>>>> I want to develope a simple Database connectivity program with
python.
> >>>>> I want to use MS Access as a backend.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>      Access, itself, is merely a GUI builder front-end. You are
> >>> likely using M$ JET as the database engine.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Amen!  People keep making this mistake over and over and over again.
> >> Access is a product Microsoft sells; Jet is one they give away for
free;
> >> etc, etc -- how CAN it be so hard to distinguish?!
> >
> >
> > How can it be so hard to distinguish?
> >
> > Gee - how about - cuz M$ doesn't bother telling you? It *says* M$ Access
> > - right there on the package and on the computer. It doesn't say M$
> > Jet... I used M$ Access for years, even took classes in it, did some
> > pretty kewl stuff with it. Never was Jet mentioned anywhere at anytime.
> > I found out from a geek buddy by accident one day...
> >
> > BTW: I just did a google check:
> >
> > the Product Overview page for M$ Access 2003 doesn't mention Jet once!
> > http://www.microsoft.com/office/access/prodinfo/overview.mspx
> >
> > Nor does the Data Access and Storage Developer Center page!
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/data/Default.aspx
> >
> > and it ain't just M$. I found a lovely page called AccesSolutions:
> > Microsoft Access Database Solutions, with not a single mention of Jet.
> >
> > In other words, if you didn't already *know*, you're damned unlikely to
> > find out until some "real" database geek gives you a hard time about not
> > knowing.
> >
> >
> > Anna
>
> Just to follow up on this - I think this is another case of M$ evility.
> They *like* that people think of Access as a database - cuz if people
> realized that they could use another database, they might realize they
> could also use *another* front end.
>
> So, I really don't think it's deliberate blurring of the lines by the
> *users* of M$ Access, so much as by M$, and the poor users simply don't
> know any better.
>
> I want to emphasize that I understand how frustrating it is to keep
> coming across the same myths and misunderstandings, and that c.l.py is
> great for gently pointing out the real information to folks.
>
> Anna

I'm a database geek.  I make damn good money developing and maintaining
database apps.  And in the corporate world, a database of some sort is
pretty well THE application they're concerned with.  And, since c.l.py is so
great for GENTLY pointing out the real information to folks here's the real
scoop on ms-access...

1.  Since version 1, ms-access has ALWAYS been two products, the Access
front end, and the underlying database engine, JET.  Since Access has always
been sold as a single product, the JET database engine has just naturally
been referred to as the "Access database engine".  Technically wrong, but
it's just easier to think of  it that way.  BTW, JET technology is the
current underlying database for windows itself when it needs to use a db.
(XP only I think.  This may change when longhorn is released).

The original purpose of Access, and in many cases still is, was to be a
Desktop Database that made it easy for a non-programmer user to create and
maintain their own simple contact lists, address books, etc and be able to
create and run reports against those db's.  And that worked and still works
really well for that aspect.  Developers got hold of the product, realized
they had a real good opportunity, and for years have been making a good
living from Access.  Many of the upgrades that have come from Access through
the years have been due to developer efforts working with Microsoft.
Thousands and thousands of custom data base apps have been written using
Access, some using the JET engine, some using another DB engine altogether,
like SQL Server, Sybase, MySQL, etc.

2.  Access is a total RAD programming environment that is optimized to do
ONE thing very well, build and manage databases, although it can be used to
do other things as well.  Access has ALWAYS had Forms, A query writer, table
management, database creation, a report writer(MUCH better than Crystal
IMO), and as a built-in language for getting down to the "metal" when you
have to, Visual Basic for Applications.

Yeah, yeah, I've heard it all before.  BASIC ugh!, Not a real language,
etc., etc., etc.  If BASIC is not a real language, why do so many languages,
including Python have more similiarities than differences to it?  This is a
fair question.

And this is MY OPINION!  MY answer is that BASIC, with all it's perceived
bad aspects is very easy to learn and understand.  An experienced BASIC
professional programmer can do one hell'uva good job, and the code won't
look like spaghetti, and probably the app will be released  into production
with fewer errors, and much faster than a C/C++ programmer could make it
happen.  And as far as writing spaghetti code, huh!, you can do that in ANY
language, goto's or not, structured programming techniques or not.

3.  When Access 2000 was released, MS included a version of MS-SQL Server
called the MSDE(Microsoft Database Engine) that was a deliberately
watered-down version of MS-SQL Server 7.  By watered down, I mean that MSDE
could handle up to 5 concurrent PROCESSES before a governor kicked in to
deliberately slow things down.  This was to prevent MSDE being used in areas
where an industrial strength DB Server needs to be used.  A marketing issue?
You bet.  But, MSDE has been know to work very reliably in small user LANS,
and workgroups of up to about 25 users with a medium to somewhat heavy
workload.  And, if the workload is fairly light up into the hundreds.  If
the workload is light, OR, ESPECIALLY if the developer knows what they're
doing, the governor won't kick in that often. Processes can be made to be
efficient.  Unless you're a huge corporation with hundreds or thousands of
users, this is more than good enough to handle most small companies, and if
those companies grow larger, the upgrade path to full blown SQL Server is
just a simple step to attach the tables from MSDE to SQL Server.

<GASP!>  M$ sells stuff for money!  Why not?  I like to eat, you like to
eat.  Don't like Microsoft?, sounds like a personal problem to me.  I don't
like everything they do either, but to pay my salary, the company I work for
has to make money, not live on indignant or righteous attitudes.  I use
whatever works best for the particular customer I have to work with.  If MS
has a product that does what I need it to, I'll use it.  If Python is a
better way to do things, I'll use it, if QBasic, if Delphi, if...

4.  Don't like SQL Server? use ODBC.  I've done Access apps using Btrieve,
MySql, Interbase/Firebird and others as the backend data engine, and Access
as the GUI front end.  My development time in Access is 1/3 to 1/2 the time,
and with fewer errors.

5.  JET is no longer being actively enhanced.  It IS being maintained.
Eventually it will fade away, but the MSDE will still be there.  Access is
now up to version 2003 just in case anyone is interested.  MSDE is up to
version 2000 or perhaps more by now.  It's a free download from the MS
website.  There ARE some licensing issues, so pay attention to them if you
download.  Not everything in the world has to be or should be "free" or
"open source".

Don't get me wrong.  I love the idea of Open Source.  I make use of it quite
often.  My problem with it is when the primary developer gets tired of the
project, which often happens after a year or two, it generally dies because
no-one is interested in taking over, or the project stagnates.  MS never
said they were in business to produce free or open source software, and at
least they don't let their products stagnate.  It takes money to build and
maintain a Word, or an Excel, or an Access, and sometimes I absolutely need
to use a product I know is going to be around a while, and be supported.

6.  Finally, MS is positioning Access to be a GUI front-end to any database,
and the hooks are already there.  Look for a .NET version in the future.

Sorry about the long rant, but so much mis-information has been passed along
in this thread and in  past threads, mainly due to so much MS hatred,
deserved or not, that  I felt I had to speak up.  I get the impression that
most of the info comes from people parroting other people, and not really
knowing about the products that they are dis'ing.  If you're really
interested in seeing what Access CAN do, take a look in particular at the
following newsgroup:

   comp.databases.ms-access.

Also look at the Microsoft Public Access newsgroups.  They all offer help
and information, some better, some worse, and sometimes it's even done as
gently and correctly as in c.l.py.

RB





From tiarno at sas.com  Tue Oct 19 11:34:31 2004
From: tiarno at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:34:31 -0400
Subject: htmldata and python 2.2
References: <ckmjth$i26$1@license1.unx.sas.com>
	<41743636$0$24525$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <cl3c67$j10$1@license1.unx.sas.com>


"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:41743636$0$24525$9b622d9e at news.freenet.de...
> Tim Arnold wrote:
> > the htmldata module looks just like what I need, but it's for Python
2.3,
> > and  I'm stuck at Python 2.2 (using HP ux10.10)
>
> Googling for "python htmldata" does not bring up anything interesting,
> google asks whether I meant "python html data".
>
> What is the htmldata module?
>
I'm not sure how I found it in the first place, maybe this newsgroup.
Anyway, it's pretty nice, and simple too.

http://oregonstate.edu/~barnesc/htmldata/html/public/htmldata-module.html

thanks,
--Tim




From DesertLinux at netscape.net  Fri Oct  8 18:00:27 2004
From: DesertLinux at netscape.net (Byron)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 22:00:27 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <%5E9d.7075$UP1.6600@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi DataAngel,

Welcome to the Python community!

 From reading your post, it sounds like you are wanting to use XOR 
encryption because there are other ways to quickly and easily compare 
strings to see if they are equal.

To compare a string, use the following:

	name = "Steven"
	name2 = "Steven"
	print name == name2

The result will be "True."  However, if my initial guess is correct that 
you are wanting to use XOR for strings, it probably because you are 
wanting a quick way of encrypting data so that basic users won't be able 
to view the information.  If this is what you are wanting, I might have 
something for you...

Let me know,

Byron
---


dataangel wrote:
> I wrote a function to compare whether two strings are "similar" because 
> I'm using python to make a small text adventure engine and I want to it 
> to be responsive to slight mispellings, like "inevtory" and the like. To 
> save time the first thing my function does is check if I'm comparing an 
> empty vs. a non-empty string, because they are to be never considered 
> similar. Right now I have to write out the check like this:
> 
>    if str1 and str2:
>        if not str1 or not str2:
>            return 0
> 
> Because python won't let me do str1 ^ str2. Why does this only work for 
> numbers? Just treat empty strings as 0 and nonempty as 1.
> 
> Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for detecting if 
> two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for strings shouldn't be 
> supported. Am I missing something? Inparticular, I think it'd be cool to 
> have "xor" as opposed to "^". The carrot would return the resulting 
> value, while "xor" would act like and/or do and return the one that was 
> true (if any).
> 
> 


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 18:34:03 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:34:03 -0400
Subject: String manipulation advice needed.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4897.1097694090.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <CE90A4CF2E5E9C4890AE5D9D8A5EFAE3032CCC22@CINMLVEM10.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<mailman.4897.1097694090.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rY-dndXE6JzHMPDcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Regular Expressions are your freind.  Take a peek at the re module.

No, regular expressions are your enemy, but it's always good
to "know thine enemy", and sometimes you want to use your
enemy as well.

-Peter


From zalpuri at mail.nplindia.ernet.in  Tue Oct 12 07:27:24 2004
From: zalpuri at mail.nplindia.ernet.in (zalpuri at mail.nplindia.ernet.in)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:57:24 +0530
Subject: {Filename?} 
Message-ID: <200410121125.i9CBP0uF031660@mail.nplindia.ernet.in>

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From ville at spammers.com  Tue Oct  5 16:24:51 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 23:24:51 +0300
Subject: Emacs is going to die! =( [was Re: Emacs + python (Was Re:
	python is going to die! =()
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<278de0e.0409201131.57baf7f9@posting.google.com>
	<414f61bf$0$29449$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<rwJ3d.1000$g42.675@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<87hdprv3qd.fsf_-_@ion.xlipstream.com>
	<du7fz5a8tte.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<cdd4e677.0410010149.50b50324@posting.google.com>
	<du7oejm39yl.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<cdd4e677.0410050615.7a8146a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7hdp8ap64.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "David" == David Rush <kumoyuki at gmail.com> writes:

    >> PyDev and saw that CDT got code compention working in C++. And some
    >> other things. Eclipse needs to do a lot of growing up, but at least it
    >> seems to *want* to grow up - unlike the grumpy old grandad that emacs
    >> has become.

    David> Well, you ought to listen to yer ould grandpa, yeh might
    David> learn summat.

I've been a heavy-ish emacs user for, what, 10 years. The problem for
me is *unlearning* the stuff.

    David> ... less than apropriate ng. ANybody know where I can have
    David> a good flaming Emacs vs Eclipse row that the Eclipse people
    David> might win? I'd like someone to convince/educate me back
    David> into using it, cause right now Eclpise is just a
    David> time-waster for me.

comp.emacs, right now. 

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From andrewm at object-craft.com.au  Tue Oct 19 09:51:42 2004
From: andrewm at object-craft.com.au (Andrew McNamara)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:51:42 +1000
Subject: Albatross 1.20 released
Message-ID: <20041019135142.0B2F23C24C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>

OVERVIEW

Albatross is a small toolkit for developing highly stateful web
applications.

The toolkit has been designed to take a lot of the pain out of
constructing intranet applications although you can also use Albatross
for deploying publicly accessed web applications.

In slightly more than 3000 lines of Python (according to pycount) you
get the following:

  * An extensible HTML templating system similar to DTML including tags for:
    - Conditional processing.
    - Macro definition and expansion.
    - Sequence iteration and pagination.
    - Tree browsing.
    - Lookup tables to translate Python values to arbitrary template
      text.

  * Application classes which offer the following features:
    - Optional server side or browser side sessions.
    - The ability to place Python code for each page in a dynamically
      loaded module, or to place all page processing code in a single
      mainline.

  * The ability to deploy applications as CGI, FastCGI, mod_python or
    a pure python HTTP server by changing less than 10 lines of code.

The toolkit application functionality is defined by a collection of
fine grained mixin classes.  Nine different application types and six
different execution contexts are prepackaged, you are able to define
your own drop in replacements for any of the mixins to alter any
aspect of the toolkit semantics.

Application deployment is controlled by your choice of either cgi,
FastCGI, mod_python, or BaseHTTPServer Request class.  It should be
possible to develop a Request class for Medusa or Twisted to allow
applications to be deployed on those platforms with minimal changes.

Albatross comes with over 160 pages of documentation.  HTML, PDF and
PostScript formatted documentation is available from the toolkit
homepage.

The toolkit homepage:

        http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/

The Albatross mailing list subscription and archives:

	http://object-craft.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/albatross-users


CHANGES SINCE 1.1

There have been many improvements and bug fixes since release 1.1.
The following page describes the changes in detail.

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/albatross/rel-1.20.html

Highlights include:

  * A new BranchingSessionContext application context class, that provides
    better syncronisation between browser state and application state
    when the application state is stored server-side.

  * Improved adapters for the different deployment modes (CGI, FastCGI,
    mod_python, standalone, etc). Application status codes (such as
    HTTP_INTERNAL_SERVER_ERROR) are now returned to the browser.

  * The page module loader in PageModuleMixin has been reimplemented so
    that it does not pollute sys.modules. Page modules are now loaded
    into a synthetic module's namespace, rather than the global module
    namespace. This will break code that defined classes in page modules
    and placed instances of those classes into the session.

  * Multi-instance response headers are now supported (so, for example,
    more than one Cookie can be set. The ResponseMixin.get_header() method
    now returns a list rather than a single string.  ctx.req_equals(name)
    now checks for name.x if name is not found. This makes using image
    maps as buttons easier.

  * Under some circumstances, redirect_url() would redirect to incorrect
    or invalid URLs (for example, an https app would redirect to http)
    - the URI parsing has been refactored, and this bug has been
    fixed. Tests were also added for the refactored URI parsing.

  * Several cookie handling bugs were fixed.

-- 
Andrew McNamara, Senior Developer, Object Craft
http://www.object-craft.com.au/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 13:28:30 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:28:30 +0200
Subject: Alex if you have any patience left please look at this
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjrvna$rf4$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjs36a$c14$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<1gl5l5t.k9lpmq1rn8gt5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cjsj9g$bh8$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjui27$dj3$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1gl776a.6zkpal1d31a01N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

M. Clift <noone at here.com> wrote:

> Hi Alex,
> 
> I can't get this to run. Could you help?

You seem to have snipped away a 'for item in sequence:' from the
function body...


Alex


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Oct 11 06:22:48 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 10:22:48 GMT
Subject: define 'in' operator on lists
References: <ckdl7u$m08$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <Xns957F72D5C6476duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

..:: sjf ::.. wrote:

> I want to define 'in' operator (or any "magic" function) on list which 
> returns True value if all of list (i.e. _list) elements appears in other 
> list (i.e. L) in the same order and False otherwise. 

How about:

>>> def containedinsequence(short, long):
	ilong = iter(long)
	for s in short:
	    for l in ilong:
		if s==l:
		    break
	    else:
		return False # ran out of long list
	return True

>>> L = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>>> containedinsequence([3, 4, 6], L)
True
>>> containedinsequence([3, 4, 7], L)
False
>>> containedinsequence([3, 4, 3], L)
False
>>> containedinsequence([], L)
True
>>> 


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 14 02:33:37 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:33:37 GMT
Subject: [Possible Bug-Python2.3.2] MD5 module?
References: <mailman.4915.1097708873.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416e1ad8.215714440@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:07:43 -0400, Jean-Guillaume Paradis <jean-guillaume.paradis at usherbrooke.ca> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>    I've tried to use the md5 module of python 2.3.3, and the results of 
>a hash do not concord with those of reference sites such as 
>http://bfl.rctek.com/tools/?tool=hasher
>
>    I call it using
>
>    import md5
>    m = md5.new()
>    m.update("a")
>    print m.hexdigest()
>
>
>    I have not checked if the problem is the same on more recent version 
>though
Why don't you show the result that you think is wrong instead of making useless
work for anyone interested?

Here is what I get:

 >>> import md5
 >>> m = md5.new()
 >>> m.update("a")
 >>> print m.hexdigest()
 0cc175b9c0f1b6a831c399e269772661

Now if you do the same with your reference implementation, we can get somewhere ;-)
BTW, I seem to have the same version as you (if you are on windows):

 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.version
 '2.3.2 (#49, Oct  2 2003, 20:02:00) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From noone at here.com  Tue Oct 12 07:39:23 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:39:23 +0100
Subject: Dict lookup shortcut?
Message-ID: <ckgfl4$a9$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi All,

Can someone tell me is there a shorthand version to do this?

l1 = ['n1', 'n3', 'n1'...'n23'...etc...]

Names = {'n1':'Cuthbert','n2' :'Grub','n3' :'Dibble' etc...}

for name in l1:
    print Names[name],

Rather than listing all the name+numbers keys in the dictionary can these
keys be shortened somehow into one key and a range?

Thanks,

M




From parker at hiredatum.demon.co.uk  Wed Oct 20 01:22:53 2004
From: parker at hiredatum.demon.co.uk (Ian Parker)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:22:53 +0100
Subject: How can I do French and English Spell Checking using MS Word
	from Python
References: <S92dnUyCuPpqguncRVn-uQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <dBxtKhitYfdBFwkF@hiredatum.demon.co.uk>

In message <S92dnUyCuPpqguncRVn-uQ at comcast.com>, Pater Maximus 
<emayo at home.com> writes
>I want to use the MS Word spell checker from my Python program. I check the
>spelling a word at a time. It works fine for English but I can not force it
>to use French when I am using that language.
>
>
>
>The French spell checking works find when done directly in the Word window.
>I have the automatic language detection turned off, the language set to
>French, and keyboard set to French
>
>
>
>I am using win32com. Any help appreciated
>
>

I was unsuccessful trying to switch from American to British English 
spell-checking, so I eagerly await answers to this thread.

Regards

Ian
-- 
Ian Parker


From guenter.jantzen at t-mobile.de  Fri Oct 29 13:26:22 2004
From: guenter.jantzen at t-mobile.de (G?nter Jantzen)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 10:26:22 -0700
Subject: FTP file creation date
References: <de8687be.0410270727.12eb2d3b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ac8880f6.0410290926.6b38383f@posting.google.com>

eugene at boardkulture.com ([ EuGeNe ]) wrote in message news:<de8687be.0410270727.12eb2d3b at posting.google.com>...
> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to write a script that downloads one file from a ftp
> server if the file creation date satisfy a condition.
> 
> I can't figure out how to find from a ftp server what is the creation
> date of the file (using python).
> 
> Any idea?
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> EuGeNe

import os, ftplib, time 

#==============================================================================
thisyear =  time.localtime().tm_year
monthdict={'Jan': 1,'Feb': 2,'Mar': 3,'Apr': 4,'May': 5,'Jun':
6,'Jul': 7,'Aug': 8,'Sep': 9,'Oct': 10,'Nov': 11,'Dec':12}
#==============================================================================
def listdir(ftp, path = '.'):
    filetimes={}
    #-------------------   
    def callback(line): 
        ls = line.split()
        #print ls ->  ['drwxrwxr-x', '2', 'ftpclient', 'k3', '335872',
'Jul', '23', '15:31', 'trash_check']
        if len(ls) == 9: 
            access, x, y, z, size, ls_month, ls_day, ls_union,
ls_filename = ls
            tm_mon = monthdict[ls_month]
            tm_mday   = int(ls_day)
            assert len(ls_union) in (4,5)
            if len(ls_union) == 5:
                assert ls_union[2] == ':' 
                tm_year = thisyear
                tm_hour, tm_min =
int(ls_union[0:2]),int(ls_union[3:5])
            elif len(ls_union) == 4:
                tm_year = int(ls_union)
                tm_hour, tm_min = 0, 0

            ftime = time.mktime((tm_year, tm_mon, tm_mday, tm_hour,
tm_min, 0,0,0,-1))
            filetimes[ls_filename] = ftime
    #------------------        
    ftp.dir(path, callback)
    return filetimes


From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Sat Oct 23 19:09:55 2004
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:09:55 +0100
Subject: Anyone seen this app
In-Reply-To: <M8Bed.17600$nj.12728@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
References: <M8Bed.17600$nj.12728@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <417ae4c3$0$27542$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>

StvB wrote:
> Can someone help me locate an open source product that I saw ?  -- written 
> with wxPython I think.

wxCRP?

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jorgb/wxcrp/

Will McGugan


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Oct 14 20:56:09 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:56:09 -0700
Subject: automatic accessors to a member var dict elements?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4968.1097781955.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4968.1097781955.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10mu7sfs68m1q28@corp.supernews.com>

Christopher J. Bottaro wrote:

>If I have the following class:
>
>class MyClass:
>        def __init__(self):
>                m_dict = {}
>                m_dict['one'] = 1
>                m_dict['two'] = 2
>                m_dict['three'] = 3
>
>  
>

First of all, you need to hold onto a copy of that dict if you want to 
be able to do anything with it.  You're creating m_dict as a local 
variable inside of __init__(), which goes out of scope when __init__() 
ends, and is then garbage-collected.  To get it to stay around, store it 
as an attribute of 'self' --

            self.m_dict = {}
            self.m_dict['one'] = 1
            self.m_dict['two'] = 2

and so on.

>Is there anyway to generate automatic accessors to the elements of the dict? 
>For example, so I could say:
>
>obj = MyClass()
>obj.one # returns obj.my_dict['one']
>obj.one = 'won' # same as obj.my_dict['one'] = 'won'
>  
>

If you want to be able to access these items as if they were plain 
attributes of your class instance, is there any reason why you're not 
just creating them as attributes?

    class MyClass:
        def __init___(self):
            self.one = 1

    obj = MyClass()
    obj.one  # --> 1
    obj.one = 'won'

If you really do need to maintain the dict separately, then you can use 
__getattr__() and __setattr__() to redirect accesses of nonexistent 
attributes into operations on your contained dict, something like this 
(untested):

    class MyClass(object):        # ensure a new-style class
        def __init__(self):
            self.m_dict = {'one':1, 'two':2, 'three':3}
        def __getattr__(self, attr):
            value = self.m_dict.get(attr, None)
            if value is None:
                raise AttributeError(attr)
            return value
        def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
            self.m_dict[attr] = value

I'm using a new-style class to take advantage of improvements in 
attribute lookup.  For this class, __getattr__()/__setattr__() will only 
be called if attr isn't found through the normal attribute resolution 
rules. 

One problem with the way I'm doing things here is that, if you set a 
dict item to a value of None, the object will raise an AttributeError 
when trying to access that item.  This really ought to use a safer 
sentinel value.  (Check for a recent thread here in c.l.py about 
sentinel values and the use of object() as one.)

It might be possible to use the mechanism you seem to want 
(automatically generating individual get/set methods, attaching them to 
the instance, creating a new property from the getter/setter), but that 
would involve significantly more complexity and magic, and would gain 
you very little (if anything).

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From sridharinfinity at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 07:40:19 2004
From: sridharinfinity at gmail.com (Sridhar  R)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 04:40:19 -0700
Subject: non-blocking XML-RPC
In-Reply-To: <6Wied.33767$QJ3.8644@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
References: <6Wied.33767$QJ3.8644@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <1098704419.327870.106990@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

The title of the post makes me think of http://twistedmatrix.com



From ville at spammers.com  Tue Oct  5 17:21:32 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 06 Oct 2004 00:21:32 +0300
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
References: <cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
	<Jdc7d.280819$4o.95007@fed1read01>
	<ijbrl0tfkraor6fe316aettvc0sqas3q8a@4ax.com>
	<du7y8ipv21m.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<mti3m0lncs2jcaeh3dbnqindal6mh7o1br@4ax.com>
	<du7sm8t4l9i.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<k4t5m09b4koi8lnb5gngf6rhmj759sjeup@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <du73c0samjn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Andrea" == Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> writes:

    Andrea> On 05 Oct 2004 11:33:29 +0300, Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com>
    Andrea> wrote:

    Andrea> Ok, but when that happened ? Can you be more specific ?

"""
It doesn't matter *what* the great Alex says, just remember
*who* said it. Does the discussion about the risk of
rebinding names a total nonsense just because the very same
applies in that very same example to math.cos and math.sin ?
So ? Still it's Alex's word... widsom from another planet
you (a no-one) surely can't question.
"""

etc. etc.


    Andrea> however it would probaly have been way quicker instead of
    Andrea> writing a lot of general words just pointing out (I mean
    Andrea> *cite*) what is the passage of mines that you think was
    Andrea> beyond the acceptable limit.

Sorry - actually writing those general words were faster, I'm getting
pretty quick with this Dvorak layout ;-).

    >> and the atmosphere of the whole newsgroup if you tone down the
    >> approach a little bit.

    Andrea> Tone down what ? Do you mean my sarcastic message ?

Yes.

    Andrea> I'm sorry, but if you expect me to:

    Andrea> 1- Swallow without thinking any argument in a technical
    Andrea> discussion

Of course not.

    Andrea> 2- Swallow insults received for no reason

There's no need to swallow it - expressing the fact that one is
insulted doesn't hurt. 

    Andrea> If turning off your brain and your self respect is your
    Andrea> definition of peace and harmony, then please do so and be
    Andrea> happy with it; but this is not my philosophy.

Yes, pride can be a bitch to control. Swallowing one's pride is
extremely difficult for everyone, even more so when you have obviously
been mistreated.

>From http://www.onlamp.com/pub/wlg/5499 :

""" 

Danny referred to the Perl folk as "chaotic/good trickster archetypes"
and Python users as "peaceful,
northern-european-have-their-glasses-on-a-little-string-to-stop-them-loosing-them
sensible fellows".

"""

I guess one just gets used to a certain kind of mentality here. Of
course diversity is valuable etc. etc. I'm sure you will learn that
you won't need to swallow your pride all that often around these
parts, so this is really a minor issue. I guess we can now give this
issue a rest, and get on w/ whatever we need to get on w/ :-).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From dowskimania at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 14:18:47 2004
From: dowskimania at gmail.com (Christian)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 11:18:47 -0700
Subject: Windows XP Balloon Tips?
References: <1d6cdae3041011094946722f33@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4714.1097514475.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncmlmfg.fp.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<Xns958065DCDDA60cpl19ghumspamgourmet@195.20.224.116>
Message-ID: <1df9547e.0410121018.405b8cba@posting.google.com>

Harald Massa <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote in message news:<Xns958065DCDDA60cpl19ghumspamgourmet at 195.20.224.116>...
> Dave Benjamin,
> 
> > Just out of curiosity, is there a way to do this also from PythonWin
> > (without having ctypes installed)?
> 
> the game is called "AnimateWindow".
> I posted a ctypes-programm to pywin32 mailinglist two weeks ago. It just 
> was not robust enough to go into the wiki.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that you need to use AnimateWindow
to do a balloon tip.  In recent versions of PyWin32 a simple call to
win32gui.Shell_NotifyIcon is all you need.

> With build 203 Python win32 extension by Mark Hammond also wrap the 
> AnimateWindow function (on XP), but they came out yesterday so I just read 
> the change notes that they do; did not find a demo. So... please download 
> pywin32 and try :)))

I modified a taskbar icon demo (from
http://www.itamarst.org/software/) the other day to add a balloon tip
to it.  I have the modified demo available at
http://www.dowski.com/python/taskbardemo.py.

Christian


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Oct 12 19:54:04 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 01:54:04 +0200
Subject: Artifical Life - a job for someone else
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>
References: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416c6e9d$0$36860$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Michael Foord wrote:
> I really miss a decent Cellular Automota program and I was really
> surprised that there weren't lot's of implementations for python.

While not in Python (but Java instead), I've written an
online one-dimensional cellular automata simulator.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~irmen/comp/cellular.html

It creates those funny pictures you may recognise from
Stephen Wolfram's book.

If you want the source code, let me know. It's probably easy
to convert to Python :)

--Irmen


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 16:53:35 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:53:35 -0300
Subject: Creating new classes on the fly
Message-ID: <864d3709041005135353c0214e@mail.gmail.com>

I need to create new classes on the fly with different default
parameters, stored as class attributes. Of course, there's a reason
behind it: I need new classes, because I need to be able to build
multiple instances of them later. And I need new defaults, because the
values can't be provided at instantiation time (because of scoping &
mutability issues).

I've found two different ways to do it in the documentation:

new.classobj(name, baseclasses, dict)

and:

type(name, bases, dict)

I assume that both end up calling the same code, but I really don't
know which one am I supposed to call, in terms of being the most
'pythonic' way. Are both the same? Is one of them preferred over the
other?


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 08:52:52 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:52:52 -0400
Subject: locks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4835.1097670275.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4835.1097670275.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qa-dnWDkDKi-uPDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>

Cliff Wells wrote:
> On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 14:11 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>"brutally" serializes (hopefully) all accesses to python data-structures -
> 
> Nope.  It doesn't do this.  For access to items such as integers you are
> probably fine, but for things like lists, dictionaries, class
> attributes, etc, you're on your own.  The GIL only ensures that two
> threads won't be executing Python bytecode simultaneously.  It locks the
> Python *interpreter*, not your program or data structures.
> 
>>so e.g. running several threads, appending to the same list, won't result
>>in messing up the internal list structure causing segfaults or the like.
> 
> True, you won't get segfaults.  However, you may very well get a
> traceback or mangled data.
> 
>>That makes programming pretty easy, at the cost of lots of waiting for the
>>individual threads.
> 
> Threading in Python is pretty easy, but certainly not *that* easy.  

Cliff, do you have any references, or even personal experience to
relate about anything on which you comment above?

In my experience, and to my knowledge, Python threading *is*
that easy (ignoring higher level issues such as race conditions
and deadlocks and such), and the GIL *does* do exactly what Diez
suggests, and you will *not* get tracebacks nor (again, ignoring
higher level issues) mangled data.

You've tentatively upset my entire picture of the CPython (note,
CPython only) interpreter's structure and concept.  Please tell
me you were going a little overboard to protect a possible
newbie from himself or something.

-Peter


From jack at performancedrivers.com  Sat Oct 23 21:05:34 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 21:05:34 -0400
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <ma1ln0th2tm9mgisbjckqo7bg927l6l8sd@4ax.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<1098414642.736428.8940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<clc3j6$bf9$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<ma1ln0th2tm9mgisbjckqo7bg927l6l8sd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20041024010534.GE16033@performancedrivers.com>

On Sat, Oct 23, 2004 at 04:31:56PM +0000, Alan Gauld wrote:
> < 100Kloc  = small
> 100K-1Mloc = Medium
> > 1Mloc = large
> 
> We try to keep the large projects to less than 10 at any one
> time...
> 
> Staffing sizes are 1-6 on small projects
> 4-30 on medium and typically 30-500 on large ones
> (I'd guess most large projects are actually around 2-3 MLoc 
> and have about 60-100 developers (inc dedicated testers).
> 
> Our most common project size is 200-300K with about 10-20
> developers. (and the preferred methodology is DSDM) We probably
> have about 30-50 such projects running at any one time.
> 
Holy such-and-such, how many developers do you have?  and
isn't it more like thirty+ companies under one roof?

I've mainly worked for dot-coms (and most of them startups)
but your coordination overhead must be just staggering.  I work/worked
for small companies because I prefer it, but whoa...

-Jack


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Mon Oct  4 09:50:20 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:50:20 +0200
Subject: pythondoc or epydoc?
References: <cjr2n0$17v1@qum07.mms-dresden.de>
Message-ID: <1xjbigr4wtz8r$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Christian Helmbold (2004-10-04 10:47 +0200)
> I don't know which doctool I should use.

Use for what? This question is pretty senseless without a
specification what you want to do with it and what the doctool should
be able to do.

> So I want to know what you suggest: pythondoc, epydoc or something
> else? What is more 'offical'?  

Nothing is "official" except "pydoc". The epydoc homepage has a pretty
informative overview:
http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/relatedprojects.html

I'd say switch to epydoc or happydoc (although I've haven't used
both).

Thorsten


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Mon Oct  4 23:10:39 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:10:39 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
Message-ID: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>

Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following 
support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*

1. Multi line comments
2. Functions as variables:
    a. functions can be stored in variables, passed as arguments to 
other functions, and returned as results.
3. Function nesting with proper lexical scope (i.e. closures)
4. Operator overloading (inc. the ability to define new operators)
5. Can I do this?  print("Hello " .. "World")  --> Hello World
6. Constructors
7. "Chunks": as in a code block contained within a string, file, or 
delimited by some sort of notation (such as brackets) which can be 
passed to and from functions, stored in objects, with the option of 
local scoping of variables declared within it.
8. "Repeat-Until" as in :
    repeat
      line = os.read()
    until line ~= ""
    print(line)
9. Generic for loops where " for i=1,f(x) do print(i) end" would print i 
only once.
10. Can I call an object's method as object:method(arg) and have that 
translate into object.method(object, arg)
11. Can I make dynamic statements and nature like with eval() in Javascript?
12. Can I make calls to a function with a varying number of arguments?
13. Named arguments
14. Tables with built-in methods for manipulation such as sort, etc.
15. Table filters
15. Proper Tail Call (otherwise known as Proper Tail Recursion)
16. The ability to call a function without brackets
17. Is the Python interpreter a JIT? Does it have a bytecode?  Is it as 
fast as Java?
18. The ability to modify the import/require functionality (how modules 
can be loaded)
19. Coroutines and threads (non-preemptive)
20. Date persistence and serialization
21. May modules be stored in variables, passed to and produced from 
functions, and so forth?
22. Is the self parameter hidden from me as a programmer?  Can I 
hide/unhide it as I wish?
23. Prototype-based OOP or the ability to extend a class without 
physically modifying it
24. Manual garbage management
25. A fully implemented .NET counterpart (I should be able to write 
Python scripts for both with the same code)
26. How easily can other languages access it and vice versa?
27. The option of mixing in static typing
28. Automatic type coercion
29. Is Python designed in such a way that I may merely "plugin" a 
C/C++/Java/D module which will then allow for mixing their syntax and 
perhaps even access to their facilities within Python?
30. Messaging syntax such as : [myColor setRed:0.0 green:0.5 blue:1.0] 
or [dog bring:paper to:me] and [[myAunt phone] setTo:[myUncle phone]] 
<--- Nested messages and [dog perform:sel_get_uid("bark")] which is the 
same as [dog bark]
31. Concepts of Protocols (whereby one may organize related methods into 
groups and check whether a particular object implements the methods 
within this protocol), or Interfaces similar to those in Java whereby 
classes or objects which implement the interface (sign the contract) 
must implement the methods and attributes as specified in the interface, 
and/or programming by contract such as in Eiffel (see: 
http://www.devhood.com/tutorials/tutorial_details.aspx?tutorial_id=595)
32. Support for unplanned reuse of classes such as in TOM 
(http://www.gerbil.org/tom/)
33. Function/Method overloading
34. In pure Python, can I change and add new constructs to the Python 
syntax?
35. May I modify the garbage collector?
36. May I implement control structures as object messages?
37. Dynamic dispatch
38. Reflection and/or templates
39. Unicode
40. Ability to call external APIs and DLLs with relative ease
41. How easy is it to port my Python code to C/C++/C# or Java?
42. The ability to assign a method(s) to a collection/group of objects 
[with a particular signature i.e.]
43. Embedding variables in strings like: print "Hello, World. Time: 
#{Time.now}"
44. Case or Switch statements with functionality as such:
case score
when 0...40
   puts "Horrible!"
when 40...60
   puts "Poor"
when 60...80
   puts "You can do better!"
when 80...95
   puts "Now that's acceptable"
when 95..100
   puts "That the best you can do?  j/k"
else
   puts "Didn't take the test?"
end
45. Are all things objects in Python?  Do all objects have built-in 
iterators and the like?  i.e. can I do this:
    3.times { print "Ho! " }
    puts "Merry Christmas"

That's all folks!




From mwm at mired.org  Thu Oct 14 17:37:52 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:37:52 -0500
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<10mt60mhr42rl09@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <x7sm8hugjz.fsf@guru.mired.org>

mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs) writes:

> Maboroshi <nobody at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> My question has to do with python and linux - I was interested in 
>> finding out what it would take to reimplement the Linux Kernel in python 
>> basically just taking the source code from linux and rewriting it in 
>> python Would this idea make sense to do - if so what would be the 
>> benefits of doing this and in what way would this not be a good idea
> I had once given serious thought to what it would take to write an OS only
> in a high-level language. (Standard ML was my language of choice at the
> time.) The short answer is, no, it can't be done with Python as it currently
> stands. 

But it can be done. It *has* been done.

> First, you would need a Python compiler that can compile Python programs to 
> machine code. Otherwise, what would you write your interpreter in? Python?
> What would you write the interpreter's interpreter in? It can't be Python
> all the way down. (Turtles are a different story, though. ;)

If you've got a Python compiler that generates machine code, you most
certainly *can* write your Python interpreter in Python. That's the
way most LISP systems are built.

> Second, in order to communicate with hardware, you would need modifications 
> to the Python language so that you can read and write bytes to specific
> memory locations. You would also need to be able to signal interrupts. Plus,
> you would also need to be able get the exact memory location of functions,
> in order register interrupt handlers.

Actually, you don't need those modifications to Python. What you need
is a module written in something other than Python that lets you do
all those things. All unix systems I'm aware of require code in
something other than C to let them do things that C can't do. Nothing
wrong about this - it's just the nature of the beast.

      <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From nemesis at nowhere.invalid  Thu Oct 28 15:29:25 2004
From: nemesis at nowhere.invalid (Nemesis)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:29:25 GMT
Subject: problem understanding pygtk
References: <slrnco2e9c.4gk.tonon@cantina.students.cs.unibo.it>
Message-ID: <c8grlc.g33.ln@orion.homeinvalid>

Mentre io pensavo ad una intro simpatica "Samuele Giovanni Tonon"
scriveva:

> hi,
> i'm trying to develop a trivial application which random copy files
> from a directory to another one.
>
> i made it using pygtk for the graphical interface, however i find 
> some problem with progressbar and ListStore:
>
> basically i need to make pulse the progressbar while i'm copying files
> and write filenames copied on the ListStore on to the window.
>
> However while copying the window is frozen, even if files are copied
> one by one and when the copy process finish the window is updated
> suddenly.
> This behaviour is well shown if i try to copy files to slow devices
> such as usb disk.

you should use:

while gtk.events_pending():
    gtk.mainiteration(gtk.FALSE) 

in the loop, it requests a refresh of the gui. 
So if you use a loop to iterate over a list of files insert that two
lines in the loop, and your gui will be refreshed every iteration.
-- 
I quit drinking and smoking once. Very boring 15 minutes.
 
 |\ |       |HomePage   : http://nem01.altervista.org
 | \|emesis |XPN (my nr): http://xpn.altervista.org



From Doran_Dermot at emc.com  Mon Oct 25 06:44:32 2004
From: Doran_Dermot at emc.com (Doran_Dermot at emc.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:44:32 +0100
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-function o
	verloading.
Message-ID: <97B6410BE753D411894E00D0B77E6F7F018DCCFC@neam2mx1.isus.emc.com>

Hi All,

I've seen lots of code in which the attributes of a class are accessed and
modified using two separate methods.  For example:

class Problems:
  def __init__( self, refNum ):
    self._refNum = refNum
    self._title = ""
    self._problem = ""

  def setTitle( self, title="" ):
    self._title = title

  def setProblem( self, problem="" ):
    self._problem = problem

  def getTitle( self ):
    return self._title

  def getProblem( self ):
    return self._problem

I prefer to use the following implementation that simulates function
overloading (an OOP feature that I like and that Python does not support):

class Problems:

  def __init__( self, refNum ):
    self._refNum = refNum
    self._title = ""
    self._problem = ""

  def title( self, title=None ):
    if title == None:
      return self._title
    self._title = title

  def problem( self, problem=None ):
    if problem == None:
      return self._problem
    self._problem = problem

This approach reduces the number of required accessor methods by 50% (bit of
an obvious statement I know). I also think that it this allows you to write
cleaner looking code. For Example:

theProblem = Problems( "12345" )

print "Title: ", theProblem.title()
print "Problem: ", theProblem.problem()

theProblem.title( "Java affecting adoption of Python." )
theProblem.problem( "Developers are more inclined to use Java instead of
Python due to the fact that Java is seen as a defacto standard." )

print "Title: ", theProblem.title()
print "Problem: ", theProblem.problem()


Am I correct in stating that Python does not support function overloading? 
Have I been hiding under a rock and not noticed the thousands of examples
that illustrate this approach?
Any comments are welcome!  
Cheers!!
Dermot Doran 
EMC2 GTS Solutions Level 2 
Office: +31-20-7768439 
Mobile: +31-6-55815258



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 13 08:19:13 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:19:13 +0100
Subject: Snakelets and WSGI
In-Reply-To: <xN8bd.33308$Z14.13411@news.indigo.ie>
References: <mailman.4806.1097643533.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xN8bd.33308$Z14.13411@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <S29bd.33311$Z14.13466@news.indigo.ie>

[Alan Kennedy]
 > The choice would between which one to use could even be made at runtime,
 > and could differ for each request, e.g. based on cofiguration, request
 > parameters, etc.
 >
 > The code could look something like this
 >
 > return_html = ['<html>', '<etc>', '</html>']
 > if use_iterator_interface:
 >     yield return_html
 > else:
 >     write("".join(return_html))
 >     yield []

Well, I should have been a little more careful about that code. Here is 
a more complete and correct example

def application_object(wsgi_environ, start_response):
     writer = start_response("200 OK", [ ('context-type', 'text/html') ])
     return_html = ['<html>', '<etc>', '</html>']
     if use_iterator_interface:
         for piece in return_html:
             yield piece
     else:
         writer("".join(return_html))
     # StopIteration automatically raised here

Or you could write it without generators, i.e. for python < 2.2, like so

def application_object(wsgi_environ, start_response):
     writer = start_response("200 OK", [ ('context-type', 'text/html') ])
     return_html = ['<html>', '<etc>', '</html>']
     if use_iterator_interface:
         # The returned list is inherently iterable
         return return_html
     else:
         writer("".join(return_html))
         # Must explicitly return an empty iterable here
         return []

It is illegal to use a combination of iterators and the write callable 
in the same application object.

Lastly, jython development activity seems to be on the cusp of re-igniting.

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=5754593&forum_id=5587

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 02:56:29 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:56:29 +0200
Subject: Method Underscores? (and a 'solution')
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298@jerf.org>
	<1gm17go.1r662ynelfha7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<pan.2004.10.21.20.08.48.57327@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <1gm1um6.zgqbbe8x559fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:25:28 +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
> > 
> >> But what mystical language exists that uses less punctuation than Python?
> > 
> > Applescript, maybe.  'tell foo of bar to tweak zippo' where python would
> > have bar.foo.tweak(zippo), looks like.  (I'm not enthusiastic about the
> > idea, just pointing it out!-).
> 
> Point. Maybe Cobol on the same theory? I don't know, I've never used
> either.

Roughly, I guess.  But a typical Applescript might be:

tell application "Microsoft Word"
   open "MyWordFile"
   set selection to paragraph 1
   data size of selection as string
end tell

while a typical Cobol would start

IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
PROGRAM-ID.  My-Program.
AUTHOR.  Some Body.

DATA DIVISION.
WORKING-STORAGE SECTION.
01  Num1           PIC 9  VALUE ZEROS.

etc, etc; more full-stops, typically.

 
> I guess if you're so stuck on the double-underscore-is-too-much-
> punctuation idea, you *deserve* to try to do all your programming in a
> combo of COBOL and Applescript :-)
> 
> I'm thinking I'll stick with Python.

Me, too.  But I understand how the "antiperl" (lrep?-) nearly
punctuation free style of Applescript may be tempting -- if Applescript
were cross-platform, it might perhaps make an even better beginners'
language than Python (and I think that of few languages).  It doesn't
scale up as well as Python, though, it appears to me.


Alex


From cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu  Thu Oct 14 15:29:12 2004
From: cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu (Christopher J. Bottaro)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:29:12 -0500
Subject: automatic accessors to a member var dict elements?
Message-ID: <ckmjru$bk1$1@sea.gmane.org>

If I have the following class:

class MyClass:
        def __init__(self):
                m_dict = {}
                m_dict['one'] = 1
                m_dict['two'] = 2
                m_dict['three'] = 3

Is there anyway to generate automatic accessors to the elements of the dict? 
For example, so I could say:

obj = MyClass()
obj.one # returns obj.my_dict['one']
obj.one = 'won' # same as obj.my_dict['one'] = 'won'

By automatic, I mean so I don't have to write out each method by hand and
also dynamic, meaning if m_dict changes during runtime, the accessors are
automatically updated to reflect the change.

Thanks for the help.



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 21 15:18:00 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:18:00 -0700
Subject: Python and generic programming
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> I wonder, does Python support generic programming paradigm, and to what extent
> (I guess, it doesn't do it in full)? And (or) does it move in that direction?
> Will we ever see
> 
> concept WellAlright:
>    ...
> 
> constructs in Python?
> Isn't it right time to reserve "concept" as a keyword ;-)


Perhaps you meant something different, but  C++ style generic (template)
programming is not necessary in Python.

With decorators, there is an easy method for generating per-argument
type checking and dispatch for functions and methods.

As Python does runtime type checking, if you care to support different
types of arguments even without decorators, one is able.

 - Josiah



From ville at spammers.com  Tue Oct 12 02:57:59 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 09:57:59 +0300
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7hdp0qv7s.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "john" == John  <johng2001 at rediffmail.com> writes:

    john> Is there an equivalent of COM on Linux that I can get
    john> through Python.

Mono appears to be the future of COM equivalent technologies on
Linux. Python support just isn't stable/mature there yet.

There is also xpcom.

    john> My need is to have some sort of language independent
    john> component framework. I can think of CORBA but I have to have
    john> a server running. I

How critical is this criterion? I would definitely go with CORBA.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr  Sat Oct 16 05:17:31 2004
From: quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr (Pierre Quentel)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:17:31 +0200
Subject: reloading updated modules in long running server?
In-Reply-To: <opsfw9veq16yt6e7@news.cisco.com>
References: <opsfw9veq16yt6e7@news.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <4170E72B.7040509@wanadoo.fr>

I don't know if there is a way to catch the event "a file has been 
modified in the file system" but you can always check if something has 
changed in sys.modules every time a request is processed by the server, 
or every n second

Something like this should work :

updateTime={}
for m in sys.modules.values():
     if m and hasattr(m,"__file__"):
         modTime=os.path.getmtime(m.__file__)
         if updateTime.has_key(m):
             if modTime != updateTime[m]:
                 reload(m)
                 updateTime[m]=modTime
         else:
             updateTime[m]=modTime

Pierre

aurora a ?crit :
> I am looking for a way for reloading updated modules in a long running  
> server. I'm not too concerned about cascaded reload or objects already  
> created. Just need to reload module xxx if the corresponding xxx.py is  
> updated.
> 
> I found something useful in module.__file__. Would it work if I use it 
> to  generate filenames xxx.py xxx.pyc and then compare their mtime? I'm 
> not  too sure about the mechanism of generation of .pyc file. Would it 
> be too  system specific to reply on?


From agriff at tin.it  Fri Oct  1 02:42:41 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 06:42:41 GMT
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
References: <4e4a11f8.0409232355.6ba0468d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.3834.1096015522.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:22:04 +1200, Greg Ewing
<greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

>Alex Martelli wrote:
>> I think it's in fact very nice syntax:
>> 
>> def f(x, cache=[]):
>>     if x in cache: ...
>
>No, it's not, because it suggests that cache is
>intended to be an optional parameter, whereas it
>probably isn't.
>
>This is a hack. Don't do it.

Puh-LEEEZE!!!

Who are you to question what Him, the Great Alex, says about it ?

That's is a very nice piece of code and I among the others
true Alex' believers actually moved over from C to python
basically just for the beauty of the idea of moving local
statics from the body to the interface!

It doesn't matter *what* the great Alex says, just remember
*who* said it. Does the discussion about the risk of
rebinding names a total nonsense just because the very same
applies in that very same example to math.cos and math.sin ?
So ? Still it's Alex's word... widsom from another planet
you (a no-one) surely can't question.

Watch your mouth next time, you worst of all hypocrites...
or the maledition of thousands of irrelevant co_*
implementation details magic formulas will destroy you.

And don't try to say that pychecker actually emits
warnings when that cra^H^H^Hbeatiful technique is
used. It's just because the Great still didn't wasted
time annihilating the misbelievers behind it.

Andrea


From slzatz at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 20:36:11 2004
From: slzatz at gmail.com (Steve Zatz)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 17:36:11 -0700
Subject: Ubuntu Linux loves Python
References: <cjmc42$420$1@wheel2.two14.net>
	<l79qn0hstavonfavcmbfcp2o8ffahv81n6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6b21d837.0410251636.7bd391c1@posting.google.com>

> allready found some outdated packages, like pysqlite, which doesn't
> work with code I've made on Windows using pysqlite 1.0.

I know little about ubuntu and debian but I installed ubuntu a couple
of days ago.  It appears that you can generally use debian package
repositories with ubuntu although there may be an occasional
incompatibility.  For example, I upgraded pysqlite to 0.5.1 from the
Debian "testing" repository and it is working fine; pysqlite 1.0 is in
debian "unstable."


From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Sun Oct  3 01:53:40 2004
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 22:53:40 -0700
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2ae25c6b.0410022153.42da3747@posting.google.com>

alia_khouri at yahoo.com (Alia Khouri) wrote in message news:<40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6 at posting.google.com>...
> Recently, I've been fortunately placed in a position to possibly
> mandate the use of python for certain tasks in my new organization.
> 
> Now, I've inherited an environment which is windows-centric, lacking
> in knowledge about scripting, and somewhat sub-standard in terms of
> productivity. I've also inherited a set of pre-existing systems which
> I have to deal with and manage:
> 
> - Peoplesoft ERP
> - Java webframework based on webwork/hibernate/jboss/mysql
> - Lotus Notes/Domino
> 
> Given this context, I'm mulling over strategies to encourage the
> productivity-enhancing benefits and 'joy' of python scripting to my
> developers. Of course, I'd rather be persuasive than coercive.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Many Thanks.
> 
> Alia K
send carefully chosen selection of your developers for training in
Python and probably Zope. Although one can learn on ones own, a few
days away from normal office pressures allows one to concentrate on
the subject better.

Take a good look at what you have and try and do an honest critique -
what is good as well as bad in it, then, discuss your findings and
suggest/ask for suggestions on improvements. Remember your greatest
resource is most likely to be your people.
Try and sell to them the career benifits of an improved system  - Can
you Justify to your boss the changes you envisage?

Make python available throughout your domain - Every windows machine
should have  Activestates distro. (and/or Cygwin). If you were
thinking of moving to Zope then get it installed  and let people know
where it is and were to access tutorials.
Mandate on obvious Python strengths - document each class/function -
self testing modules, platform independance (but pre-define your
platforms).

If your system is just plain bad then you might be able to go with
'What we have is bad in so many ways (and this should be
self-evident). A clean sweep is called for. A new system, a new
language, new training, the company wins - thepeople of your team
wins!

Ta ta,  Paddy.


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 06:20:19 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 03:20:19 -0700
Subject: EVT_TEXT_ENTER can not be caught in a subclass of wx.Dialog
In-Reply-To: <684bd072.0410120332.2e732935@posting.google.com>
References: <684bd072.0410120332.2e732935@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1097662819.12092.5.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 04:32 -0700, Sean wrote:
> Hi,
>   I found if a wx.TextCtrl is used in a subclass of wx.Dialog, the
> event wx.EVT_TEXT_ENTER can not be caught, that is, key code of RETURN
> can not be indentified.
> 
> class MyDialog(wx.Dialog):
>     def __init__(self,parent,pos,size,style):
>         ...
>         self.t1 = wx.TextCtrl(self, -1, "", size=(125, -1))
>         self.t1.Bind(wx.EVT_CHAR, self.OnChar,self.t1)
>         ...
> 
>     def OnChar(self, event):
>         if (event.GetKeyCode() == 13):
>             print "%d"%event.GetKeyCode()
>         else:
>             print "%d"%event.GetKeyCode()
>         event.Skip()
> 
> 
> How could I effectively bind a handler to EVT_TEXT_ENTER in it?

You need to specify the following style for the textctrl:

self.t1 = wx.TextCtrl(self, -1, "", style = wx.TE_PROCESS_ENTER)

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From klappnase at web.de  Sat Oct  9 03:48:28 2004
From: klappnase at web.de (klappnase)
Date: 9 Oct 2004 00:48:28 -0700
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4538.1097192656.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8f17f4bc.0410080849.51fbdcfa@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7a67196.0410082348.36fd45a@posting.google.com>

alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali) wrote in message news:<8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62 at posting.google.com>...
> > >You can set the text widget to be "disabled" to
> > > keep the user from changing the contents.
> 
> How? I tryed putting diabled in there and disabled=yes and
> disabled='yes'. None of them worked :(

Try state="disabled"

Michael


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 11:04:29 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:04:29 -0400
Subject: [OT] New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <40E605146701DE428FAF21286A97D3091744C6@wphexa02.corp.lh.int>
References: <40E605146701DE428FAF21286A97D3091744C6@wphexa02.corp.lh.int>
Message-ID: <4162B7FD.9080702@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>  
>
>>1. Multi line comments
>>    
>>
>No. There are no comments in Python.
>
>  
>
Well I known there are one-line comment (with a #)

> <SNIP>
>
>  
>
>>4. Operator overloading (inc. the ability to define new 
>>operators)
>>    
>>
>You can't define more than 5 new operators. After this it was decided
>you'd really be going too far with this whole O-O thing, leading to a
>quite different meaning for "overloading" in Python. Python programmers
>like to be different ;)
>  
>
Really?  That's silly. 

> <SNIP>
>
>6. Constructors
>In Python these are called "Buildy Things".
>
>  
>
Deconstructors too maybe?

>7. "Chunks": as in a code block 
>  
>
>>contained within a string, file, or 
>>delimited by some sort of notation (such as brackets) which can be 
>>passed to and from functions, stored in objects, with the option of 
>>local scoping of variables declared within it.
>>    
>>
>Code is actually contained in special "envelopes" fed into
>Python-engineered devices built into the back of most computers these
>days. Hand-crafted code in Python is literally just that.
>
>  
>
So your saying it has to be a module first for me to do this?

> <SNIP>
>
>>11. Can I make dynamic statements and nature like with eval() 
>>in Javascript?
>>    
>>
>There's a lot of nature in Python. Most programmers prefer a pastoral
>setting although some are hardy sea-faring folk. You should therefore
>intersperse any documentation with thoughts about your garden, when to
>harvest your crops, when the tide is likely to come in this evening,
>etc. Also many Python programmers consider "eval" to be evil because of
>that one letter difference. It's all in the semiotics.
>
>  
>
Did I really write nature by accident or did you modify that?!  :-P

>15. Proper Tail Call (otherwise known as Proper 
>  
>
>>Tail Recursion)
>>    
>>
>That's two 15's. Is this a form of duplicit recursion ?
>  
>
It's where if inside of a function you call another function and there 
are no other statements after that function call then the interpreter 
will erase the function from memory since there is no need to return to 
it.  I hope that's clear and that your not pulling my leg. 

>16. The ability to call a function without 
>  
>
>>brackets
>>    
>>
>You're kidding, right. Right ? Without brackets ? That's... that's just
>not possible is it ?
>
>  
>
In certain languages it is.  I think Lua lets you do it but more 
certainly I know Ruby does.

>17. Is the Python interpreter a JIT? Does it have a 
>  
>
>>bytecode?  Is it as 
>>fast as Java?
>>    
>>
>Python is generally 2000 to 3000 times faster than Java if you run Java
>on a toaster and Python on a super-cooled space computer orbiting
>Saturn.
>
>
>  
>
I guess that means no.  I have to install that JIT module someone 
refered me to.

> <SNiP>
>
>Sorry, my compilation has finished. Hope that helps...
>  
>
Thank you soooo much Mark.  I thoroughly enjoyed your replies and thank 
you for taking the time.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 23 09:55:57 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:55:57 -0400
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>

David Wilson wrote:
> Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>>     * Both attribute-style and dictionary-style access supported
> 
> Can someone please enlighten me as to why this is a good idea? The abuse 
> of __getitem__ or __getattr__ (IMHO) should only occur inside 
> transparent object proxies and suchlike -- I see no relation between 
> (key, value) mapping and attributes.

Is it enough to say that it is a good idea *for some people*, and
that you don't need to be convinced that it's a good idea for you,
or in general, for that to remain a fact?

And surely you don't really mean that you don't see a relation
between (key, value) mapping and attributes.  You *can't* mean
that... they are both forms of associative mapping.  A key or name
maps to a value.  End of story.  Obvious as all get out.

Perhaps you meant you don't believe that this obvious relation
is in itself a good reason to supply both methods of access?
Or some other point?

-Peter


From wweston at att.net  Tue Oct  5 12:05:50 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:05:50 GMT
Subject: convert scientific integer to normal integer
In-Reply-To: <a2972632.0410050751.6b0b39d@posting.google.com>
References: <a2972632.0410050751.6b0b39d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yDz8d.667038$Gx4.100104@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

les ander wrote:
> Hi,
> i have a file with lines like this:
>   1.7000000e+01   2.4000000e+01   1.0000000e+00   8.0000000e+00   1.5000000e+01
>   2.3000000e+01   5.0000000e+00   7.0000000e+00   1.4000000e+01   1.6000000e+01
>   4.0000000e+00   6.0000000e+00   1.3000000e+01   2.0000000e+01   2.2000000e+01
>   1.0000000e+01   1.2000000e+01   1.9000000e+01   2.1000000e+01   3.0000000e+00
>   1.1000000e+01   1.8000000e+01   2.5000000e+01   2.0000000e+00   9.0000000e+00
> 
> Notice that they are all integers. 
> What I want to do is write them out in a regular way, by which I mean that the 
> output should look like this:
> 17 24 1 9 15
> 23 5 7 14 16
> etc
> 
> I tried the following but it did not work:
> fp=open(argv[1])
> for x in fp:
>   xc=[int(e) for e in x.split()]
>   print " ".join(xc)
> 
> 
> any help would be much appreciated

Les,
 >>> x=eval('1.7000000e+01')
 >>> x
17.0
 >>>
wes



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Fri Oct  8 08:05:48 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:05:48 -0400
Subject: Graceful detection of EOF
In-Reply-To: <1glc5z1.56iyyk1fstik6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4537.1097189860.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glc5z1.56iyyk1fstik6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4166829C.3060104@bellsouth.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:

>Jeremy Jones <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>   ...
>  
>
>>>This is well in line with the normal Python idiom,
>>>as compared to "look before you leap".
>>>
>>>                Andrew
>>>                dalke at dalkescientific.com
>>>      
>>>
>>So, what you're saying is that the Python way, in contradistinction to
>>"look before you leap", is "land in it, then wipe it off?"  Can we get
>>that in the Zen of Python?  :-)
>>    
>>
>
>The "normal Python idiom" is often called, in honor and memory of
>Admiral Grace Murray-Hopper (arguably the most significant woman in the
>history of programming languages to this time), "it's Easier to Ask
>Forgiveness than Permission" (EAFP, vs the LBYL alternative).  This
>motto has been attributed to many, but Ms Hopper was undoubtedly the
>first one to use it reportedly and in our field.
>
>In the general case, trying to ascertain that an operation will succeed
>before attempting the operation has many problems.  Often you end up
>repeating the same steps between the ascertaining and the actual usage,
>which offends the "Once and Only Once" principle as well as slowing
>things down.  Sometimes you cannot ensure that the ascertaining and the
>operating pertain to exactly the same thing -- the world can have
>changed in-between, or the code might present subtle differences between
>the two cases.
>
>In contrast, if a failed attempt can be guaranteed to not alter
>persistent state and only result in an easily catchable exception, EAFP
>can better deliver on its name.  In terms of your analogy, there's
>nothing to "wipe off" -- if the leap "misfires", no damage is done.
>
>
>Alex
> 
>  
>
Eloquently stated, as usual, Alex.  I hope that you didn't take me 
seriously, though, and that your (excellent) explanation was for the 
benefit of all readers to provide us all with a snippet of pragmatic 
thought and a good thought pattern to approach a lot of problems with.  
Of course there is nothing to "wipe off."  It was a joke I had hoped 
would be made evident by my little emoticon ":-)".  But again, excellent 
codification of what may be in a lot of us merely an intuitive approach 
and less well internally described as what you've stated above.  Thanks!


Jeremy Jones
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From bj_666 at gmx.net  Sat Oct 30 17:28:05 2004
From: bj_666 at gmx.net (Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:28:05 +0200
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>	<slrnco6oak.nn.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>	<2uh8ckF2954t4U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<du71xfgtm0p.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>	<eLadnS8y84jmPx7cRVn-1Q@speakeasy.net>
	<2uhpqlF2arp3cU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.30.18.19.50.89965@gmx.net>

In <2uhpqlF2arp3cU1 at uni-berlin.de>, Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:

> (Perl6 proposes this sort of syntax for grouping regexes:
> 
> grammar Some_Grammar {
>     rule identifier { [a-z]* }
>     rule plus_expression { <identifier> \+ <identifier> }
>     etc.
> }
> 
> I just think that the new RE syntax is much cleaner and easier to read.
> We'll see how other languages adapt or not.

Looks more like a grammar than a pure RE.  There are already Python
modules to write grammars.

Ciao,
	Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Oct 20 05:11:26 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 11:11:26 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<tyfsm8b9kqm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1glxal0.rxjtsr1pbf0guN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tyfoeixycsh.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>    ...
> > Here's a program that tells you the answer. Should be trivially
> > translatable to many other languages.
> > 
> > ========================================================================
> > def passCheck(b):
> >     b = 'new'
> > 
> > def doesThisLanguageBindByValue(language):
> >     a = 'original'
> >     b = a
> >     b = 'new'
> >     if a == 'original':
> >         print "%s assigns by value" % (language)
> >     else:
> >         print "%s does not assigns by value" % (language)
> 
> Can you give some examples of languages which would end up in the else
> branch?

Sure. Here it is in C++:

========================================================================
#include <iostream>
#include <string>

void passCheck(std::string& b) {
  b = "new";
}

void doesThisBindByValue() {
  std::string  a = "original";
  std::string& b = a;
  b = "new";
  if (a == "original") {
    std::cout << "by value" << std::endl;
  } else {
    std::cout << "NOT by value" << std::endl;
  }

  a = 1;
  passCheck(a);
  if (a == "original") {
    std::cout << "by value" << std::endl;
  } else {
    std::cout << "NOT by value" << std::endl;
  }
}

int main() {

  doesThisBindByValue();

  return 0;
}
========================================================================

> I think that with a suitably perverse operator= I might be able
> to imitate this weird effect in C++, but then I think I'd have to make
> the 'b = a' a copy ctor instead of an assignment (or get to such levels
> of perversion that even my once-C++-addled mind reels at...;-).

No need for such horrors. Just declare the variables to be references
... and then you really do get bind-by-reference. It does exactly what
is says on the tin (unusual for C++, I know :-).


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 02:33:01 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 23:33:01 -0700
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410052233.16505629@posting.google.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> As part of a pet project of mine, I needed to find a way to re-execute
> a class declaration[1]. 

You may want to read this old thread:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=2259b0e2.0303171358.5a6fe337%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3DPEP%2B308%2Bblack%2Bmagic%26btnG%3DSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

which does something close to what you ask for. Of course the trick
there is NOT recommended for real code ;)

          Michele Simionato


From deets.nospaaam at web.de  Thu Oct 21 08:49:22 2004
From: deets.nospaaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:49:22 +0200
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch> <2tpkd4F21cs2oU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cl86oo$2sf6$1@news.imp.ch>
Message-ID: <2tppjpF22ebjhU1@uni-berlin.de>

> Good to hear! i only need the changes! do you have code examples?

This is a misunderstanding: I didn't mean "the changes". What you can get by
calling

os.stat

is the timestamp of the last modification - so you can then skip rereading
the file if there has been no modification after the last time you read the
file.

But you _can't_ only read what has been changed in the file - there is no
such thing neither in python, nor the underlying OSses (which is the reason
for python not having such a functionality)

I suggest you tell us more about what you actually want to accomplish, then
we might be able to offer better advice.

Diez


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 00:38:19 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 04:38:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: understanding generators  and functions with arguments
References: <c6dd4e35.0410111700.2be6c24c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041012T060638-923@post.gmane.org>

 <caw <at> southernhealth.org.au> writes:
> 
> def msg(text):
>     def decorate(f):
>         def new_f(*args):
>             print text, f(*args)
>         return new_f
>     return decorate
> 
> 
> @msg("Hello, ")
> def f1(s):
>     return s
> 
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     f1("world!")
[snip]
> 
> I don't understand the scope of *args, as seen in the argument list of
> new_f.

Not sure if Scott's answer was sufficient for you.  In case it wasn't, maybe 
this will help illustrate a few more things:

>>> def msg(text):
...     def decorate(f):
...         def new_f(*args, **kwds):
...             print text, f(*args, **kwds)
...         return new_f
...     return decorate
...
>>>
>>> def f1(s):
...     return s
...
>>> f1.func_code.co_varnames
('s',)
>>>
>>> @msg("Hello, ")
... def f1(s):
...     return s
...
>>> f1.func_code.co_varnames
('args', 'kwds')

So what's happening here is that f1 is being replaced by your function new_f.  
Note that though the definition of f1 has an 's' argument, the definition of 
f1 after the application of a decorator has the 'args' and 'kwds' arguments of 
new_f.

When you call a function passed into a decorator (e.g. the 'f' passed 
into 'decorate' in your example above) you won't necessarily know what 
arguments it takes.  Using *args and **kwds says that you don't know what 
these arguments are, which is probably true in most cases when you write a 
decorator function.

Note that if you knew you were only ever going to use this decorator for 
function f1, you could write it as:

def msg(text):
    def decorate(f):
        def new_f(s):
            print text, f(s)
        return new_f
    return decorate

and when f1 was replaced with new_f, your argument name would still be 's'.  
Of course, then you could never use msg(...) as a decorator to any function 
that took more than a single argument.

Steve



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 29 18:12:34 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:12:34 -0700
Subject: Linksys Router & Python
In-Reply-To: <20041029143557.0BEE.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041029112922.0BD9.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<1099078525.7272.37.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<20041029143557.0BEE.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <1099087954.7272.46.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 14:38 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 11:31 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > 
> > > Some linksys routers offer support for dynamic hostnames via no-ip.org
> > > or dyndns.org.  That is, they connect to the dynamic dns server, tell it
> > > "hey, I'm now ip address ...", and within about 5-10 minutes, the rest
> > > of the world knows it.
> > 
> > There's also a plethora of scripts (several of them in Python) that do
> > the equivalent.  dyndns.org has a listing of many of them.
> 
> Then we get back to the chicken and egg problem; the original poster
> doesn't want to run their main computer all weekend, and was considering
> running a Python script on the router to notify himself that the IP had
> changed.

True, but who ever answers the OP's question on c.l.py?  My impression
has always been that OP's are just there for starting long OT threads
about more interesting things <wink>

Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 27 15:54:54 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:54:54 -0400
Subject: Can not get urllib.urlopen to work
In-Reply-To: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
References: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <C62dnby2h5XZYOLcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>

Pater Maximus wrote:
> I am trying to implement the recipe listed at
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/211886
> 
> However, I can not get to first base. When I try to run
> 
> import urllib
> fo=urllib.urlopen("http://www.dictionary.com/")
> page = fo.read()
> 
> I get:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 548, in connect
>     raise socket.error, msg
> IOError: [Errno socket error] (10061, 'Connection refused')

Do you have any reason to think that this site is currently
hosting a web server?

Attempting to connect with IE or Telnet on port 80 results in
a similar response.

(Telnet is always a good thing to try, before posting about
server problems...)

-Peter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct  8 13:54:19 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:54:19 -0700
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted
	Data	Chunk Efficiently
In-Reply-To: <13A479B6-1942-11D9-B9C9-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
References: <20041008083137.ED79.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<13A479B6-1942-11D9-B9C9-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041008101318.ED94.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> Hmmmm -- I could be wrong, but doesn't MySql _use_ bsddb as its lower 
> level at least for some kinds of tables?  Yet (for simple query) the 
> vox populi has it "faster" than "real dbms"s... just wondering aloud...

I don't know.  I've not used nor spelunked around in MySQL.  Your guess
is probably better than mine.

 - Josiah



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Oct  6 03:43:21 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 06 Oct 2004 09:43:21 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<4edc17eb.0410050722.c1025a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyf3c0scmw6.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato) writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyfsm8td503.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>...
> > _Most_ object-oriented languages support object orientation via the
> > message passing paradigm. Python included.
> 
> In my mind I have the equation "message passing = single dispatching"

I don't think that message passing implies single dispating by
necessity. After all, the visitor pattern allows you to hack in
multiple dispatch into message-passing languages. There must be other
ways too [1]

> as opposed to multiple dispatching (generic functions).

But it is true that generic functions' feature of not singling out the
first argument as special, both in terms of it's syntactic position,
and the "method ownership" concept, does make multiple dispatch seem
more natural.

> IOW, it seems to me that all OOP systems based on single dispatching
> are more or less the same and it is just a matter of terminology
> ("passing a message to an object" = "calling a method of an
> object").

> Am I right in this simplification? Or the terms has a much more
> precise meaning?

If someone can find The Canonical definition of message passing, then
I'd be interested to see it, but I fear that trying to nail down such
a definition could be a matter of considerable debate and controversy
(just as it is for "strong typing" and "object orientation" for
example).



[1] Something along these lines maybe, though I haven't got the time
    to develop it beyond a crappy idea (ie I haven't tried it, I'm
    sure there are mistakes, it's not very clever):

    class mdm(object):
        "Multiply dispatching method (message?)."
    
        def __init__(self):
            self.dispatch = {}
    
        def add(self, method, types):
            self.dispatch[types] = method
    
        def __call__(self, *args):
            return self.dispatch[self.map(type, args)](*args)
    
        def __get__(self, ...):
            # Method binding descriptor should go here
            # The details escape me at the moment
    
    class Foo(object):
    
        bar = mdm()
        def _bar(self, a,b):
            # whatever
        bar.add(_bar, (int, int))
        def _bar(self, a,b):
            # something else
        bar.add(_bar, (dict, str))
    
        del _bar


[ Orthogonal issue: Wouldn't it be great to have fully fledged
anonymous, inline functions? Then we wouldn't have to faff around with
"_bar" and "del _bar" and "bar.add", we could just write:

bar = mdm((type1, type2,
          lambda self, a, b: # whatever),

          (type3, type4,
          lambda self, a, b: # something else))

(Or, in this case, it could be cleaned up by smuggling in an
"accumulating dictionary", to pass to the metaclass ... as discussed
in another thread last week.)

]


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Tue Oct 26 09:50:08 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:50:08 -0400
Subject: comparing multiple copies of terrabytes of data?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5446.1098734965.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2004.10.25.18.08.29.462743@dcs.nac.uci.edu>	<D-idnbZWXrXV2ODcRVn-pg@giganews.com>
	<mailman.5446.1098734965.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Y6adnT9_jr6Ny-PcRVn-hQ@giganews.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> The code to do so is simple:

...
 >     p = -1
 >     good = 1
 >     while f1.tell() < p:
 >         p = f1.tell()
 >         if f1.read(b) == f2.read(b) == f3.read(b):
 >             continue

...

What is slightly amusing is that your *simple*
solution is actually incorrect. You got the
comparison backwards in the while loop.

Other functional deficiency when compared to
the cmp diffs is that you don't know which
file has changed or which byte differs
...  adding that brings about the potential
for another set of bugs. Then someone else comes along
who knows a little less about python and adds
a little feature to the program that actually
silently breaks it ...

Whether or not it is actually faster remains
to be seen. And that was my whole point,
not to don't dismiss cmp to soon, see how it works
test it, then armed with some real numbers one
can make better decisions.

Istvan.


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct 22 04:33:53 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:33:53 +0100
Subject: Any builtin function that can dial up ISP and/or log off?
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B4A@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[User]
| I am looking for a function that can dial up an ISP, connect and/or
| log off through a Python script running under windows.  I looked in
| socket, but didn't find anything that looks promising.  Any
| suggestions?  If it is just an executable file belonging to windows
| that I need to run, just tell me what the file is and I'll write a
| script to run it.  Thanks.

You need to be looking at the win32ras module from
the pywin32 extensions (http://pywin32.sf.net)

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
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From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sun Oct 24 14:41:12 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 18:41:12 GMT
Subject: Some more notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
	<QPmdndr7xOOG-efcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <slrncnntlt.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:01:00 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> bearophile wrote:
>> Cliff Wells:
>>>Why not just use "/"?
>> 
>> Okay, I'll use os.path.normcase to convert them.
> 
> That's not necessary in almost all cases.  Windows happily(*)
> accepts forward slashes in all system calls.  The only place
> it does not is in the *shell* (aka command.com and cmd.exe).
...
> (*) There are theories that although Windows does accept
> forward slashes, it does so only grudgingly.

IIRC, forward slashes have been acceptable since way back in early MS-DOS --
although someone somewhere on Usenet suggested that Microsoft have never
commited to keeping it that way.

Personally, I tend to use them -- but I accept full responsibility when/if
it breaks.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From rupole at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 19 13:11:10 2004
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:11:10 -0400
Subject: win32com extension help
References: <584da15e.0410170900.3f090aa4@posting.google.com>
	<4172b3c6$1_2@127.0.0.1>
	<1098190067.084805.135060@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4175495e$1_5@127.0.0.1>

You can do a release build of your extention that contains
debugging information, and use it with a normal python installation.
       Roger


<psparago at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1098190067.084805.135060 at z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Roger,
>
> Thanks so much for the post back. I really appreciate it.
>
> The problem with ifilter has been corrected by uninstalling python and
> all related python packages I'm using. I hate doing that, but a
> colleague was able to run filterDemo.py without incident.
>
> I'm still struggling with importing my ICustomDoc interface. Here's the
> first of my issues. This is the .PYD registration function. (I didn't
> include the definition of the interface itself, but it's the result of
> running makegw on the MSHTML IDL include that has ICustomDoc.)
>
> If I try to call PyCom_RegisterExtensionSupport, the python executor
> crashes. OK, I know it's me, but I'm having trouble tracking the
> problem down.
>
> If I try to build a debug version of my stuff, it complains that i
> don't have a debug version of python (something I'm trying to avoid).
> If I could use a debugger, I'd be much more independent about figuring
> out what is wrong. Any hints on debugging something like this without
> using a debug build of Python? (I'm on Windows.)
>
> Here's the code that fails. Any thoughts would be most appreciated.
>
> static struct PyMethodDef JoeyCustomCom_methods[]=
> {
> //{ "SetUIHandler", PyICustomDoc::SetUIHandler, 1 }, // @pymeth
> SetUIHandler|Description of SetUIHandler
> { NULL }
> };
>
> static const PyCom_InterfaceSupportInfo register_data[] =
> {
> PYCOM_INTERFACE_CLIENT_ONLY ( CustomDoc ),
> NULL
> };
>
> extern "C" __declspec(dllexport)
> void initJoeyCustomCom(void)
> {
> printf("1\n");
>
> // Initialize PyWin32 globals (such as error objects etc)
> PyWinGlobals_Ensure();
> printf("2\n");
>
> PyObject *module = Py_InitModule("JoeyCustomCom",
> JoeyCustomCom_methods);
> if (module==NULL)
> return;
> printf("3\n");
>
> PyObject *dict = PyModule_GetDict(module);
> if (dict==NULL)
> return;
> printf("4\n");
>
> // Register all of our interfaces, gateways and IIDs.
> PyCom_RegisterExtensionSupport(dict, register_data,
> sizeof(register_data)/sizeof(PyCom_InterfaceSupportInfo));
> printf("5\n");
>
>
>
> Roger Upole wrote:
> > "Peter Sparago" <psparago at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:584da15e.0410170900.3f090aa4 at posting.google.com...
> > > (Sorry in advance for the long post.)
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm having a great deal of difficulty buiding a Python COM
> extension.
> > > I am using the MSHTML ActiveX control in my application but I need
> to
> > > interact with and implement some Custom COM interfaces. All is well
> > > with the basic operation of the control using Python.
> > >
> > > Basically, I want to take over the right-click (context) menu from
> > > MSHTML. To do this (to the best of my knowledge), you must request
> the
> > > ICustomDoc interface from the control and set up your own
> > > implementation of the IDocHostUIHandler interface. In Python COM
> > > extension lingo, I need an ICustomDoc interface and an
> > > IDocHOstUIHandler gateway.
> > >
> > > First off, any link to HOW-TO documentation on this subject would
> be
> > > greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > I wanted to start with something very simple, so I am trying to
> > > implement an extension that understands only the ICustomDoc
> interface.
> > > I ran makegw and hand-edited the resulting interfaces to get my
> .PYD
> > > to compile and link (and even load!).
> > >
> > > I pretty much understand the actual implementation of the COM
> support
> > > generated by makegw, but I'm very hazy on the extension "wiring"
> > > necessary to publish this COM support to Python. (i.e. the use of
> > > PyMethodDef and PyCom_InterfaceSupportInfo etc.)
> > >
> >
> >
> > Basically, you construct an array of PyCom_InterfaceSupportInfo's
> > that contain the interfaces your extension module will implement.
> > (the PYCOM_INTERFACE_ macros require very strict naming conventions)
> >
> > When you pass this array to PyCom_RegisterExtensionSupport,
> > it adds your interfaces to Pythoncom's internal array of supported
> > interfaces.  This is used to lookup the type object that's used as
> > a constructor for the Python interface object.
> >
> > > So, I thought I'd look for a working example and do a knock-off.
> I'm
> > > running Python 2.3 and I've downloaded and built pywin32-203. I
> have
> > > previously worked in great detail with the IFilter interface, so I
> > > chose that win32comext project to use as a model. The problem is,
> when
> > > I run the demo python code (called filterDemo.py) to exercise the
> > > IFilter support, it fails with the following error:
> > >
> > > C:\Joey\pywin32-203\com\win32comext\ifilter\demo>filterDemo.py
> > > test.txt
> >
> > Just a guess here, do you have .py files registered to open with a
> debug
> > build of python ?  If so, you'll need to have debug versions of all
> the
> > extension
> > modules (*_d.pyd) alongside the normal .pyd files to be able to
> > import them.  Or vice-versa, if you only have a debug version of the
> > extension
> > built you  won't be able to import it from a normal python.exe.
> >
> >   hth
> >        Roger
>




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Oct 15 08:28:34 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:28:34 -0600
Subject: Recycle Bin and Python
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410150408.165c95c4@posting.google.com>
References: <6f402501.0410150408.165c95c4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416FC272.9010301@pythonapocrypha.com>

Michael Foord wrote:
> How do I move files into the windoze recycle bin from python ?

This is really a Windows API question first, and a Python question second.

1) Find out the "official" way to do this in Windows

I googled for "msdn move file recycle bin" and the first link that came back was 
a page on MSDN for SHFileOperation. In typical Windows fashion, it involves 
populating some structure and passing it to the function, but it does appear to 
do the trick.

2) Figure out how to do this in Python.

You can create such a structure in ctypes, after which you can make the actual 
call like this:

i = windll.shell32.SHFileOperationA(byref(yourStruct))

HTH,
Dave


From joewong at mango.cc  Sun Oct 17 21:38:49 2004
From: joewong at mango.cc (Joe Wong)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:38:49 +0800
Subject: Not enough space error? 
Message-ID: <00a001c4b4b3$37cbdf30$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>

I am using Python 2.3.3 on Windows 2000 with SP4 installed.> One more interesting thing is when that error occurs, I can't open any
> other file on the system unless I kill all Python process from Task
> manager...

That is strange.  What version of Python are you running?

 - Josaih




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From ewijaya at singnet.com.sg.removethis  Thu Oct 28 14:18:38 2004
From: ewijaya at singnet.com.sg.removethis (Edward wijaya)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 02:18:38 +0800
Subject: Data::Dumper for Python
References: <opsgkj8cih074qab@news.singnet.com.sg>
	<slrnco2d8k.kgh.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <opsglehcdm074qab@news.singnet.com.sg>

Thanks for the informative reply, Dave.
I really appreciate that, for me as a new guy
in Python.

Regards,
Edward WIJAYA
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:06:12 -0000, Dave Benjamin 
<ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote:

> In article <opsgkj8cih074qab at news.singnet.com.sg>, Edward wijaya wrote:
>> Is there any equivalent of it
>> in Python?
>
> Take a look at the "pprint" module. Also, it's worth noting that the 
> Python
> interpreter prints representations of data structures all the time, no
> library required:
>
>>>> x = [{'a': a, 'b': b} for a in range(2) for b in range(3)]
>>>> x
> [{'a': 0, 'b': 0}, {'a': 0, 'b': 1}, {'a': 0, 'b': 2}, {'a': 1, 'b': 0},
> {'a': 1, 'b': 1}, {'a': 1, 'b': 2}]
>
> Read up on the __repr__ and __str__ methods to understand how this 
> mechanism
> works and how to extend it to your own objects.
>


From ksenia at ksenia.nl  Thu Oct 14 06:18:23 2004
From: ksenia at ksenia.nl (Ksenia Marasanova)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:18:23 +0200
Subject: Linux and OS/X on the [desk|lap]top [was Re: Database
	Connectivity]
In-Reply-To: <1097593809.4458.69.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
	<1gl8by8.1ay6g301hrswe8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<XZfad.18001$b5.884997@news3.tin.it>
	<Bdhad.18298$b5.899971@news3.tin.it>
	<BvCdne92t9yqU_fcRVn-pw@megapath.net>
	<mailman.4723.1097525156.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gljewt.t3m4wtirod26N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1097593809.4458.69.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <6137F031-1DCA-11D9-B0D3-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>

>> Mac OS X is actually quite superior, though I found out less than a 
>> year
>> ago, and "by accident" -- just because I bought an iBook 12", as the
>> truly-portable laptop with the best price/performance ratio, intending
>> to install Linux on it, then discovered that Darwin/OSX is better.
>
> Yes, but there is still a learning curve for the average Windows user.
>

I've ordered an eMac for my mum just a few days ago :). It will replace 
this horrible, constantly crashing piece of hardware she has right now: 
Compaq Presario.
Most of her questions about Windows (in the short periods of time it 
was working), were so Mac-oriented, that I deeply admire Apple for 
their understanding the needs of a non-technical user, who can watch 
movies, listen to the music, import digital camera images without even 
knowing "folders" en "files" concept.
Anyway, I am very curious how it will be going... the eMac must arrive 
this Sunday :p

Ksenia.



From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 03:19:46 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 00:19:46 -0700
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410012319.eac0324@posting.google.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message news:<10lrp62cr2uqc5a at corp.supernews.com>...
> 
> Personally, I suspect that the number of people who're running external 
> commands that are complex enough for these escaping issues to matter is 
> rather small.  The vast majority of uses of os.system() (IMHO) are very 
> simple cases with one or two simple arguments.  Relatively few of them 
> involve filenames that contain spaces, or other things that might cause 
> problems with the naive os.system('cmd %s %s' % (arg1, arg2)) sort of 
> approach.
> 
> At least, *I've* never personally found myself in a situation where I 
> wanted to execute an external command, and in which I needed to worry 
> about escaping/quoting the command string.  It's an open question 
> whether your experience is more typical than mine, I guess...
> 

Well, if I may add a data point, it happened to me various times
of getting in trouble with os.system and quotes when managing
Windows files. I know about os.spawn*, but it is a knowledge that
keeps escaping from my mind. I would keep os.system as it is,
but I would modify the documentation (or maybe the docstring of
os.system) pointing out the existence of os.spawn*.
Just my 0.02c,


              Michele Simionato


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sat Oct  2 05:56:07 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 10:56:07 +0100
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk> <10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <yfsmzz5h2a0.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> writes:

> Personally, I suspect that the number of people who're running external
> commands that are complex enough for these escaping issues to matter is rather
> small.

The chances that if you call some external command you will want to pass it
some filename (or something else that might contain more than [a-zA-Z0-9_-.])
that you didn't necessarily (or carefully enough) create yourself seem really
quite high to me (a quick grep through my own stuff showed a ratio of about
20:1 needs-escaping:doesnt-need-escaping) [where needs-escaping of course more
means "should really use os.spawnv" or whatever, but that doesn't resolve the
issue for popen calls]

> The vast majority of uses of os.system() (IMHO) are very simple cases
> with one or two simple arguments.  Relatively few of them involve filenames
> that contain spaces, or other things that might cause problems with the naive
> os.system('cmd %s %s' % (arg1, arg2)) sort of approach.

Do you mean they don't involve filenames (etc.) with space by necessity or by
chance (they are rare under unix)? By chance -- well certainly and there is
unix stuff out there already that breaks for 'funny' filenames, but I'd rather
python did not further contribute to that (especially since once python code
developed under unix then gets used under windows actual trouble strarts).
 
'as



From klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de  Tue Oct 26 04:54:02 2004
From: klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de (Klaus Neuner)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 01:54:02 -0700
Subject: module signal
Message-ID: <3e96ebd7.0410260054.197dd951@posting.google.com>

Hello,

consider the following two programs:

# (1)

import sys, signal

def alarm_handler(signum, frame):
    raise 

try:
    signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, alarm_handler)
    signal.alarm(3) 
    n = 0
    while 1:
        print n
        n = n+1
except:
    print "Time over."

#############################################################

# (2)

import sys, signal

def alarm_handler(signum, frame):
    raise 

try:
    signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, alarm_handler)
    signal.alarm(3) 
    re.search("a(((.)*c)*d)*e", "abcdf"*20)
except:
    print "Time over."

#############################################################

(1) behaves the way one would expect it to behave: It stops counting
after about 3 seconds. (2) will stop trying to match the regexp at
once. And this behaviour will not change if you give any other
argument to signal.alarm().

Why?

Another program of mine contains code that is fairly analogous to (2)
(or at least I thought so). Here it is:


# (3) 

def main():
    # read in a corpus file
    # compile some regexp patterns
    # and then, for each pattern do:       

            for line in corpus:
                try:
                    signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, alarm_handler)
                    signal.alarm(10)            
                    test = pattern.search(line)  #!
                    if not test:
                        out.append(line)
                    else:
                        out.append(some_function(line, pattern))
                except:
                    out.append(line)


#############################################################

The regexps pattern in code (3) use to be rather complicated. When
code (3) gets really long lines as input, Python will be executing
line #! for days. Why?

What I am looking for is code with the following meaning:

for n seconds try to do:
    # any Python code may be inserted here
print "bla"

When the n seconds are over, Python should print "bla". It should not
exit the program. How can this be done? 


Klaus


From psparago at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 08:47:47 2004
From: psparago at yahoo.com (psparago at yahoo.com)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 05:47:47 -0700
Subject: win32com extension help
In-Reply-To: <4172b3c6$1_2@127.0.0.1>
References: <584da15e.0410170900.3f090aa4@posting.google.com>
	<4172b3c6$1_2@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1098190067.084805.135060@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hi Roger,

Thanks so much for the post back. I really appreciate it.

The problem with ifilter has been corrected by uninstalling python and
all related python packages I'm using. I hate doing that, but a
colleague was able to run filterDemo.py without incident.

I'm still struggling with importing my ICustomDoc interface. Here's the
first of my issues. This is the .PYD registration function. (I didn't
include the definition of the interface itself, but it's the result of
running makegw on the MSHTML IDL include that has ICustomDoc.)

If I try to call PyCom_RegisterExtensionSupport, the python executor
crashes. OK, I know it's me, but I'm having trouble tracking the
problem down.

If I try to build a debug version of my stuff, it complains that i
don't have a debug version of python (something I'm trying to avoid).
If I could use a debugger, I'd be much more independent about figuring
out what is wrong. Any hints on debugging something like this without
using a debug build of Python? (I'm on Windows.)

Here's the code that fails. Any thoughts would be most appreciated.

static struct PyMethodDef JoeyCustomCom_methods[]=
{
//{ "SetUIHandler", PyICustomDoc::SetUIHandler, 1 }, // @pymeth
SetUIHandler|Description of SetUIHandler
{ NULL }
};

static const PyCom_InterfaceSupportInfo register_data[] =
{
PYCOM_INTERFACE_CLIENT_ONLY ( CustomDoc ),
NULL
};

extern "C" __declspec(dllexport)
void initJoeyCustomCom(void)
{
printf("1\n");

// Initialize PyWin32 globals (such as error objects etc)
PyWinGlobals_Ensure();
printf("2\n");

PyObject *module = Py_InitModule("JoeyCustomCom",
JoeyCustomCom_methods);
if (module==NULL)
return;
printf("3\n");

PyObject *dict = PyModule_GetDict(module);
if (dict==NULL)
return;
printf("4\n");

// Register all of our interfaces, gateways and IIDs.
PyCom_RegisterExtensionSupport(dict, register_data,
sizeof(register_data)/sizeof(PyCom_InterfaceSupportInfo));
printf("5\n");



Roger Upole wrote:
> "Peter Sparago" <psparago at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:584da15e.0410170900.3f090aa4 at posting.google.com...
> > (Sorry in advance for the long post.)
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm having a great deal of difficulty buiding a Python COM
extension.
> > I am using the MSHTML ActiveX control in my application but I need
to
> > interact with and implement some Custom COM interfaces. All is well
> > with the basic operation of the control using Python.
> >
> > Basically, I want to take over the right-click (context) menu from
> > MSHTML. To do this (to the best of my knowledge), you must request
the
> > ICustomDoc interface from the control and set up your own
> > implementation of the IDocHostUIHandler interface. In Python COM
> > extension lingo, I need an ICustomDoc interface and an
> > IDocHOstUIHandler gateway.
> >
> > First off, any link to HOW-TO documentation on this subject would
be
> > greatly appreciated.
> >
> > I wanted to start with something very simple, so I am trying to
> > implement an extension that understands only the ICustomDoc
interface.
> > I ran makegw and hand-edited the resulting interfaces to get my
.PYD
> > to compile and link (and even load!).
> >
> > I pretty much understand the actual implementation of the COM
support
> > generated by makegw, but I'm very hazy on the extension "wiring"
> > necessary to publish this COM support to Python. (i.e. the use of
> > PyMethodDef and PyCom_InterfaceSupportInfo etc.)
> >
>
>
> Basically, you construct an array of PyCom_InterfaceSupportInfo's
> that contain the interfaces your extension module will implement.
> (the PYCOM_INTERFACE_ macros require very strict naming conventions)
>
> When you pass this array to PyCom_RegisterExtensionSupport,
> it adds your interfaces to Pythoncom's internal array of supported
> interfaces.  This is used to lookup the type object that's used as
> a constructor for the Python interface object.
>
> > So, I thought I'd look for a working example and do a knock-off.
I'm
> > running Python 2.3 and I've downloaded and built pywin32-203. I
have
> > previously worked in great detail with the IFilter interface, so I
> > chose that win32comext project to use as a model. The problem is,
when
> > I run the demo python code (called filterDemo.py) to exercise the
> > IFilter support, it fails with the following error:
> >
> > C:\Joey\pywin32-203\com\win32comext\ifilter\demo>filterDemo.py
> > test.txt
>
> Just a guess here, do you have .py files registered to open with a
debug
> build of python ?  If so, you'll need to have debug versions of all
the
> extension
> modules (*_d.pyd) alongside the normal .pyd files to be able to
> import them.  Or vice-versa, if you only have a debug version of the
> extension
> built you  won't be able to import it from a normal python.exe.
> 
>   hth
>        Roger



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Oct 13 15:17:33 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:17:33 +0200
Subject: Ergonomics (was Re: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<du7r7oa1dst.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>	<I4j9d.5365$UP1.2717@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<du7655lh914.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>	<mailman.4800.1097635300.5135.python-list@python.org>	<du7r7o3ytii.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>	<1097654015.10090.22.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<mailman.4841.1097672550.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mqrqbpob0lf75@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ckjv09$13p$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> The problem with this is that you're taking your hand too far away from
> the center of the keyboard.  You want something that you can reach
> easily, without significant stretching and without needing to watch
> carefully when you return your hand to the home row.  I'd personally be
> inclined towards option 2.
> 
> Heck, that would really only require a slight remapping on my current
> keyboard, at least to get parens accessible without shifting --
> currently [/{ and ]/} are just to the right of P; I can see an advantage
> to remapping those keys to be (/[ and )/], and putting { and } above 9
> and 0 where the parens are now...
> 
> Of course, for me it's not worth customizing my keymapping, because I
> end up working on a variety of machines often enough (frequently in the
> sense of "fixing", rather than just trying to get my own work done).
> Switching back and forth from a custom keymap to the standard one would
> be confusing enough to counteract any gains I'd make from a more
> ergonomic arrangement of keys.  (Now, if I could convince everyone
> worldwide to switch to (nationalized keyboards based off of) a
> Dvorak-style arrangement, that'd be a different matter....  :) )


I use the FingeWorks Touchstream Keyboard, dvorak layout - its USB and very
portable. And it has the exact feature you're talking about: The keyboard
is divided in two parts. When placing the left hand in a specail way, the
right becomes the "programmers pad" - which allows access to all common
syntactic symbols, and even has some special keys that produce ->, !=, //
with only one keystroke. Checkout the website: www.fingerworks.com
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 20 04:19:18 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:19:18 +0100
Subject: How can I do French and English Spell Checking using MS Word 
	from Python
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B34@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Pater Maximus]
| I have been knocking my brains out on this one. I just got it 
| to work while
| putting together a reply to you. That just goes to prove the
| Shakespeare/typing monkeys paradigm works in Python too:)
| 
| I figured it out by using the "dot completion" in Delphi to 
| discover that
| .Selection.LanguageID was acceptable.

[... snip sample code ...]

I'm afraid I can't say whether dot-completion is available in
Python IDEs since I don't use any, but I *can* help you with the
language constant.

A bit of background. (Skip this if you already understand early-
and late-binding of COM objects in pywin32.) When you use 
win32com.client.Dispatch, there are two options: rely on a generated
module which acts as a proxy for the COM object in question; or
build the classes etc. as you go along only when you need them.
(This last is called dynamic dispatch). If you're using the proxy 
module, then constants (such as wdFrench) are available as 
win32com.client.constants.wdFrench. If you're using dynamic dispatch
the constants are not available and you have to hardwire them as
you have done.

To generate the proxy module, you have two approaches: either use
the makepy.py module from the win32com package (on my system it's
in c:\python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\makepy.py); or
force the generation when you instantiate the object in your code,
using the gencache.EnsureDispatch method. Eg,

<code>
import win32com.client

word = win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch ("Word.Application")
word.Selection.LanguageId = win32com.client.constants.wdFrench

#
# Do your spell-checking here
#

</code>

Hope this helps you a bit more.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
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From rhaper at houston.rr.com  Sat Oct 16 12:17:34 2004
From: rhaper at houston.rr.com (Rod Haper)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:17:34 GMT
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <x7hdouvfh2.fsf@guru.mired.org>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4920.1097716237.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4958.1097771160.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416eeb74$0$23209$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<x7oej3vddz.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<4170bc0e$0$26583$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<x7hdouvfh2.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <yQbcd.6955$rY1.2480@fe2.texas.rr.com>

Mike Meyer wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
> 
>>On 2004-10-15, Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
>>>
>>>>Exactly.  Any number of "low level", statically typed,
>>>>compiled, languages would work equally as well.  Modula-2 (not
>>>>sure about M-3, the GC stuff maybe a bit iffy in a kernel),
>>>>Ada, BLISS, PL/I, Pascal, etc.
>>>
>>>Haven't operating systems been written in most of those languages?
>>
>>VMS was mostly in BLISS, I believe.  I think MacOS (and maybe
>>parts of MS-Windows way back when) were written in Pascal.  I'm
>>sure IBM must have written at least one OS in PL/I (whether it
>>escaped into the wild or not, I don't know).  I _think_ Intel
>>wrote iRMX in PL/M (a PL/I derivitive).  I can't think of any
>>OSes written in Modula-[23] off the top of my head.
> 
> 
> DECWRL was heavy into both Modula and new machines/OS's. I'd be
> surprised if they didn't write at least one OS in Modula.
> 
>           <mike

Hermes was a real-time OS written in Modula-2.  The Lilith workstation 
used Modula-2 as the system language but the lowlevel OS was in microcode.

SPIN was a UNIX-like research OS written in Modula-3.  There are 
probably others.

The Oberon OS is written in Oberon the Modula successor.

Operating systems written in the Modula family (including Oberon) tend 
to merge the OS with the application level probably due the influence of 
Wirth's ideas.  They are more like operating environments.


-- 
Rod


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 30 15:04:01 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:04:01 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3064b51d.0410260928.1873a20d@posting.google.com>
	<1gme4mk.1rlz70v1cswu9zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3064b51d.0410291739.35cb9de6@posting.google.com>
	<1gmgplx.4jmtifat3uheN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3064b51d.0410301020.43ca9bb2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gmhlmv.1d7n4yi13wtpyhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<beliavsky at aol.com> wrote:
   ...
> you were using F77 compilers with the free format extension.

I guess I never met one without it -- funny!

> In some important ways Python does NOT trust the programmer, to his
> benefit.
> Trying to access an out-of-bound list element or using an
> uninitialized variable causes an immediate error.

Sure, just like dividing by zero or trying to divide a string by a list.
What's your point?  Diagnosing errors when requested an invalid
operation, rather than guessing at some default behavior to use instead,
has got nothing to do with 'not trusting' -- it has to do with 'errors
should never pass silently' and 'in the face of ambiguity refuse the
temptation to guess'.  C works very similarly if you try to multiply two
pointers by each other, or something equally invalid in that language.


> > indeed _increasing_ those characteristics, and dynamicity too.
> 
> I think "dynamism" is the word you are looking for :).

Actually I did mean dynamicity, even though dictionaries haven't picked
that word up yet.  Best definition I've found out of the many thousands
of Google hits for it is at:
http://creatingminds.org/tools/triz/principles/principle_15.htm .
It's not so much about _change_, which is the main current meaning of
"dynamism" ("continuous change, activity and progress", says one
dictionarym and that seems about right) -- it's about _forces_, how a
system is able to react to forces applied on it (both in the original
meaning in mechanics, and the obvious metaphorical applications in
systems theory, sociology, and programming).

 
> > and libraries in a huge variety of other languages, is crucial.  You
> > mentioned C++ and F95: I would not be surprised if the best _portable_
> > (across compilers and platforms) way of using both C++ and F95 in the
> > same program would be exactly to interface each of them to Python!-)
> 
> The Fortran 2003 standard mandates "interoperability" with C --
> Fortran calling C in a standardized way. Although it will be some time
> before full F2003 compilers exist, F95 vendors are adding high-demand
> features F2003 features such as C interoperability.

Bully for them -- and yet, that doesn't refute my hypothesis that, to
interface F95 with _C++_, which is specifically what I mentioned (as
opposed to C -- how comes you claimed that C is a strawman earlier, when
dissing it suited your crusade, and now it becomes a holy grail?-),
Python (with Boost Python and one of the Python/Fortran bridges) may the
best portable approach (no risk of hitting on a F95 compiler without
extensions taken from another standard, no need to write huge amount of
``extern "C" {'' boilerplate code on the C++ side of things, ...).


Alex


From daniel at syrinx.net  Sun Oct  3 20:19:53 2004
From: daniel at syrinx.net (Daniel Ellison)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:19:53 -0400
Subject: limitations of current logging package
In-Reply-To: <2e37dc1.0410031336.2fa892ad@posting.google.com>
References: <2e37dc1.0409230442.7e74543d@posting.google.com>
	<4edc17eb.0409232031.66ad3d4e@posting.google.com>
	<2e37dc1.0409260220.6ad5cb6c@posting.google.com>
	<JqSdnXgsbLTkosXcRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<2e37dc1.0410020754.739f8744@posting.google.com>
	<cjmsug$m3o$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk> <2s8im5F1icf99U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<2e37dc1.0410031336.2fa892ad@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2sbj3gF1ikhudU1@uni-berlin.de>

Vinay Sajip wrote:
>>Excellent documentation, but it DWOMM (doesn't work on my machine(s)). 
>>Python 2.3.3 on Debian (Linux kernel 2.4.26) and Cygwin (Win2kPro) both 
>>claim that "basicConfig() takes no arguments (4 given)".
>>
>>Has the API changed since the docs at that link?
> 
> 
> The link points to "in-development" documentation, which is consistent
> with Python in CVS. The basicConfig() API was changed to add the
> optional keyword arguments documented in the link - the 2.4 release of
> Python will have this API, which is backwards-compatible. If you want
> to use it now, try downloading the logging package from CVS.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Vinay Sajip

Thanks, Vinay! Perhaps I should learn to read a little gooder. :) In my 
defense, the "6.28 logging" page at the same location says "New in 
version 2.3", which I used to make sure it was supposed to be working as 
described.

Of course, if I had read your post more carefully...

Dan


From timr at probo.com  Tue Oct  5 00:05:48 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:05:48 -0700
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
	<slrncludlu.n81.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <o574m014ea0lesbg7qhgf38umeag4mfhng@4ax.com>

Sam Holden <sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
>>
>> Second, "their" is allowed as a singular pronoun only in those cases where
>> a gender-specific pronoun is called for, but the gender is unclear or would
>> be sexist.  Instead of "Everyone brought his Python manual," we are now
>> allowed to say "Everyone brought their Python manual."
>>
>> However, in the example that started this, "village" has no gender.  Thus,
>> I don't see that "their" is an acceptable alternative to "its" in this
>> case.
>
>From the blog you dismissed so lightly which is written by someone who must
>qualify as an "expert in the field":

Please don't get angry.  English grammar nitpicking is only fun as long as
no one takes it too seriously.

>"Principal helps their employees" - Principal is a company.

The names of corporations, in formal British English, are plural nouns.
Thus, "Hewlett-Packard are introducing a new printer this month."

>"Treasure Island's having their show right now." - Treasure Island is a
>hotel.
>
>"picked by Latina Style as one of their list of ..." - Latina Style is
>a magazine.
>
>Why is a village fundamentally different from a company, hotel, or magazine?

Dunno.  One could use the corporation argument for Treasure Island, but I
would have used "its" for Latina Style.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 18:13:59 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:13:59 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <278de0e.0410051203.3ac28eae@posting.google.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Ovp8d.3155$M05.74@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4311.1096951351.5135.python-list@python.org>	<zJp8d.3165$M05.1860@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<278de0e.0410051203.3ac28eae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41631CA7.3050903@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
>For God's sake... Cut the boy some slack!
>I don't understand this kind of reactions. If some reader gets
>"offended" by someone's post, why not just ignore him and go on with
>our lives?
>It's incredible the amount of time and text wasted to bash people just
>because it sounds a little unpolite.
>I myself suffered these type of attacks in previous posts, and even
>though I struggled to appologize and make myself clear, it was like a
>feast of spanish inquisitors...
>What's the strange pleasure of dedicating typing time and energy in
>punishing people just for being a little out of place?
>A short phrase of warning should be enough, don't you think?
>  
>
Thank you for the defense Neuruss.  Sorry to all.


From flupke at nonexistingdomain.com  Fri Oct 29 10:18:25 2004
From: flupke at nonexistingdomain.com (flupke)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:18:25 GMT
Subject: deleting elements from a list in a for loop
Message-ID: <Risgd.3548$7R7.154746@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Hi,

i'm having trouble with deleting elements from a list in a for loop

============== test program ==============
el = [ "one", "two", "three", "four" ]
print "**** Start ****"
print "List = %s " % el
index = 0
for line in el:
     print "    el = %s " % line
     if ( index == 1 ):
         print "    deleting %s " % line
         del el[index]
     else:
         index += 1
print "**** After delete ****"
print "List = %s " % el

print "**** After adding two ****"
el.append("two")
print "List = %s " % el
============== test program ==============

This is the output that i get
**** Start ****
List = ['one', 'two', 'three', 'four']
     el = one
     el = two
     deleting two
     el = four
     deleting four
**** After delete ****
List = ['one', 'four']
**** After adding two ****
List = ['one', 'four', 'two']

After deleting it doesn't go to element "three". Why is that?
How can i safely delete from a list?
The reason is that i'm currently making an application to manage my 
links. I write a couple of links to the screen in a listbox (wxPython) 
and thus i delete those links that appear on screen from the list 
because people will be able to edit them.
Then when they move to another link section, i write the content of the 
listbox back to the list. But as i've illustrated in the small example 
my coding is flawed.

Thanks,
Benedict


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Oct 20 13:40:56 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:40:56 -0500
Subject: String changing on the fly
In-Reply-To: <m2brexcorb.fsf@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> (John Hunter's message
	of "Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:56:08 -0500")
References: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com>
	<m2brexcorb.fsf@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <m27jplcmon.fsf@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "John" == John Hunter <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:


Continuing the fun, you can define a new python class that inherits
from string, but overrides the "convert me to a string representation"
method __str__ to evaluate itself in the context of the global
variables

import re


class PerlString(str):
    def __str__(self):

        rgx = re.compile('\$(\w+)')
        fmt = re.sub('\$(\w+)', self.dollar_replace, self)
        return fmt%globals()

    def dollar_replace(self, matchobj):
        return '%(' + matchobj.group(1) + ')s'

s = PerlString('$first paid cost $T dollars')


T = 2
first = 'John'
print s

T = 5
first = 'Bill'
print s





From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Tue Oct 19 08:19:19 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (pekka niiranen)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:19:19 GMT
Subject: Help needed: cryptic perl regular expression in python syntax
Message-ID: <bD7dd.1707$i81.1401@read3.inet.fi>

Hi there,

I have perl script that uses dynamically
constructed regular in this way:

------perl code starts ----
$result "";
$key = AAA\?01;
$key = quotemeta $key;
$line = "   s^\?AAA\?01^BBB^g; #Comment "
if ($line =~ /(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\?\??$key\??)\3(.*?)\3(.*)/) {
	$result = $5;

# $result should be "BBB"
# \3 gets the same value as returned by (.)
# which is in this example ^. So we are searching
# parameter limited by first two ^-signs
# and returning the one limited byt the second
# and third ^-sign. Note that using \3 in regular
# expression enables other constants used than ^ -sign.

------perl code stops ----

How can I construct equivalent python regural expression ?

I have tested with constant regular expression like this:

 >>> line = '   s^\\?AAA\\?01^BBB^g; #Comment '
 >>> r1 = "(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\\\\?\\\??AAA\\\\\?01)"
 >>> re.compile(r1).findall(line)
[('   ', 's', '^', '\\?AAA\\?01')]

Which is fine, but is there a way to join 3 raw strings
together into another raw strings? like:

r1 = r'''(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\?\??'''
r2 = r'''\\?\??)\3(.*?)\3(.*)'''
p1 = r1 + key + r2 # p1 should remain raw string too

-pekka-




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 21 13:47:05 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:47:05 -0700
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <20041021081356.GA12496@mylene.ghaering.de>
References: <20041021081356.GA12496@mylene.ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <20041021100019.0AAC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> wrote about adding a PySQLite module
(and perhaps the DLL for windows) to the Python standard library.


Six months ago, I would have been against the inclusion of such a module.
After having worked with SQL database for the last 5 months or so, I am
now in favor of adding such a module.

While there are arguments against it, I believe that as long as we
follow the DB API spec(s), and recommend that people actually read the
documentation (with regards to table-level locking with ATTACH,
translating to Python types, etc.), we can't really go too wrong.

> So, what would you like to see? "import sqlite", "import embsql", or
> "pypi.install('pysqlite')" ?

import sqlite

Where all the standard DB API stuff gets regular sqlite.names, and any
extra SQLite functionality gets sqlite._names .

 - Josiah



From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Fri Oct 22 10:23:52 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 07:23:52 -0700
Subject: Method Underscores? (and a 'solution')
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298@jerf.org>
	<1gm17go.1r662ynelfha7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0410220623.7b3db5bc@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gm17go.1r662ynelfha7N%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
> 
> > But what mystical language exists that uses less punctuation than Python?
> 
> Applescript, maybe.  'tell foo of bar to tweak zippo' where python would
> have bar.foo.tweak(zippo), looks like.  (I'm not enthusiastic about the
> idea, just pointing it out!-).

Trust me, it's not a place you want to go. ;p


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Oct 11 09:12:16 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:12:16 -0500
Subject: DISLIN or gnuplot.py
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.10.20.50.39.807116@pacbell.net> (Richard's message
	of "Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:50:41 GMT")
References: <pan.2004.10.10.20.50.39.807116@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <m2r7o5flfz.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Richard" == Richard  <none at pacbell.net> writes:

    Richard> I am going to need to plot some data and formula results
    Richard> from Python.  A few years ago I used gnuplot (not from
    Richard> Python) and was wondering which Python plotting module I
    Richard> should use (learn)?

    Richard> I have seen DISLIN mentioned on "onlamp.com" and see that
    Richard> gnuplot has a python module wrapper.

    Richard> Any suggestions on Python plotting modules? (DISLIN or
    Richard> gnuplot.py or ????)

I suggest looking at matplotlib.  Although it is not as mature as
DISLIN and gnuplot, it is progressing rapidly and supports most 2D
plotting needs, with the remaining gaps closing quickly (see
http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html for a quick
snapshot of capabilities).

It has several advantages over these old workhorses

  -- written in python for python, so it is easier for users to become
     developers.  This makes it possible, for example, to write a
     custom tick locator or formatter by extending one of the base
     python classes.

  -- supports many nice features that older packages do not:
     antialiasing, alpha channel, freetype fonts, sophisticated
     cross-platform font finding.

  -- embeddable in an GUI application: gtk, wx, tkinter, fltk.  More
     to come.

  -- mathematical text with "TeX" style expressions; mathtext and
     plain text looks the same in the GUI, image and postscript
     backends because we embed truetype fonts in postscript.


It is also actively developed and supported by yours truly and others.

http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net


JDH


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Mon Oct 25 21:43:49 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 18:43:49 -0700
Subject: Some more notes
References: <qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>	<5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5368.1098558180.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0410251743.a486d0b@posting.google.com>

Thank you Josiah Carlson for all your comments.

>so argument over it is a moot point.
[...]
>Please stop advocating the removal of useful features.
[...]
>Stop complaining about them.

Well, I haven't done something bad, so I think I still have the rights
to discuss, suggest and ask things here.


>In my opinion, the syntax-less case statement described in the PEP is
>pure.  That is, no new syntax is needed, but if your if/elif/else
>statements are of a certain format, you gain the speed of dictionary
>dispatch.  I believe that any case-statement-like behavior in Python
>will likely be of this sort.

I'm still too much ignorant of Python to understand this :-)


>I could have sworn that either append or prepend was fast

On Mathematica (4.0 ore less) both append and prepends are O(n) and
quite slow, if you want to do a much faster "append" to Mathematica
lists, you have to create a nested list:
[a, [b, [c, [d]]]]
And then Flatten it. This can be hundred times faster for 10000
elements.
A group of functions to do it re-defining the heads of the structure:

Clear[h123456]
createL = h123456[];
apppendL[l_, x_] := h123456[l, x];
prepL[l_, x_] := h123456[x, l];
convertL[l_] := Flatten[l] /.
h123456 -> List;


>The only problem is education. Once one becomes educated about the
side-effects of append/extend/etc., one rarely has problems of this
kind,<

Okay. I'll take my time to learn more and I'll see if you are right.


>Honestly, I (and likely many others) don't care that Mathematica can
be faster. C can be faster, Java can be faster, Perl can be faster. 
We use Python for varying reasons and for varying purposes.<

I didn't meant to offend Python... I appreciate many languages at the
same time :-)
(Comparing the speed of C with python is probably of little use, but
comparisons between Mathematica and Python can be a bit more
interesting, because they are both interpreted, etc. And maybe
Mathematica can suggest things to improve Python.)


>For general programming, there are other better languages (in my
opinion, which I imagine is shared), nearly all of which are free.<

I agree.


> If you mean things like (I can't remember the exact syntax, perhaps this is it)...
> fib[a_] := If[a<3, Return[1], b=fib[a-1]+fib[a-2];fib[a]=b;Return[b]]

Something like this is probably nicer and/or more correct:
fib[1] = 1;
fib[2] = 1;
fib[x_] :=  fib[x] = fib[x - 1] + fib[x - 2]

Mathematica's global hash can contain the triads: (functions, params,
value)


>With a 'memoization decorator', it gets easier in the general case<

Nice :-)


>If you are talking about something else, perhaps you should describe
it.

I was talking about something different. I have found a page about it:
http://www.verbeia.com/mathematica/tips/HTMLLinks/Tricks_Misc_7.html
But this page is still quite basic: with the automatic rewriting rules
and pattern matching you can do lot of things.


>Funny, I found no mention of division operator breaking on the Python
3.0 wiki:

I'm sorry, I'm ignorant and I'm just confused about all this. I've
read the PEP238:
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0238.html
And here:
http://python.fyxm.net/peps/pep-3000.html
I find:
>True division becomes default behavior


>> Case <name>:
>>     1: DoSomething1
>>     range(2,23): DoSomething2
>>     else: DoSomething3
>>
>>That is the worst syntax for case statements I have ever seen.<

It's just an idea, and it's similar to Delphi sintax... The PEP275
suggests something like:

switch EXPR:
	 case CONSTANT:
			 SUITE  
		 case CONSTANT:
			 SUITE  
	 ...
	 else:
		 SUITE  

And:
>Another proposed extension would allow ranges of values (e.g. case
10..14: ...)

I've just used the Python range(a,b) to express the half-open
interval... But probably the Pascal a..b syntax is better.


>Understand that 'obj.attr = val' implies that obj is mutable. Do you
>also want to remove object oriented programming in Python? Likely
not,
>but understand the implications for what you say.

I see.

A bear hug and thank you again,
Bearophile


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Oct 27 03:16:04 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:16:04 GMT
Subject: Yet Another Command Line Parser
In-Reply-To: <1gmb2ov.x8n25btrkygpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <5c4tn0latkspkrrlj8r66qj7h35qbpies0@4ax.com>
	<qExfd.3218$kM.28@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gmafuh.1ahlu0w17i82akN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ulBfd.8071$KJ6.3884@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gmb2ov.x8n25btrkygpN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <UWHfd.3733$kM.1218@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex:
> However, it's an interesting characteristic of security that it is _not_
> free: each security measure, precaution and stance carries a cost in
> terms of convenience and productivity.

Almost completely agreed, though I think there are cases where
a solution with better security doesn't have that tradeoff.

Using Python is one .. haven't had to worry much about stack
overflows, etc. and I've been much more productive.  :)

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Mon Oct 18 16:49:08 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:49:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<cl0umu$kdm$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<cl0v8o$8a4$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<mailman.5126.1098122988.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl11jf$r9$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<mailman.5131.1098126770.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glvhih.mackqd12vhs62N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cl1a84$4tk$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
...
> C is also very simple, just like Python: C always does pass by value.
> I.e., C always does implicit copy (on assignment or parameter passing),
> just like Python never does.

> So in C you ask explicitly when you want a reference (pointer) instead,
> e.g. with &foo -- in Python you ask explicitly when you want a copy
> instead, e.g. with copy.copy(foo).  Two simple language, at opposite
> ends of the semantics scale, but each consistent and clean.  (Python
> matches 4.5 of the 5 points which define "the spirit of C" according to
> the latter's Standard's preface...!-).

This is misleading.  copy.copy does a smart, data-structure-aware copy
(not a deep copy, but exactly what copy.copy does differs among
datatypes).  Parameter passing isn't about data structures; it's about
what an assignment statement means when you're assigning to a formal
parameter within a function (also possibly about some other things
like lazy evaluation), for example whether the argument list is a
declaration of new variables or just a set of aliases for other
pre-existing values (I don't say "variables" here because the value
passed in may be anonymous).


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct  7 11:38:45 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:38:45 -0700
Subject: handle a log file.
In-Reply-To: <cth7jq2pzyg.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
References: <cth7jq2pzyg.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
Message-ID: <20041007082551.ED43.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> I've a GUI program (wxPython) that comunicates with a machine with UDP
> sockets. Every sended socket is writted to file for inspection if
> there is problem. What ocurs is that sometimes the file grows to much
> (32Mb) and the program has problems to manage it. Is any way to
> control the size of the file?

if f.tell() > 2**25:
    print "my file is to big"
    fn = f.name
    f.close()
    #destroy the logfile
    f = open(fn, 'w')

Probably not precisely what you want, but it will "control the size of
the file".

 - Josiah



From sjackman at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 19:10:34 2004
From: sjackman at gmail.com (Shaun Jackman)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:10:34 -0700
Subject: Line buffering pipes
Message-ID: <7f45d939041029161052832e6a@mail.gmail.com>

I'm reading from a tcpdump pipe. I want to receive one line from the
pipe as soon as its available from tcpdump. Something is buffering the
pipe though, so I am receiving nothing, then multiple lines in a big
batch. I thought this was the inherent buffering of next(), but it
affects readline too.

For example,
    tcpdump = os.popen( 'sudo tcpdump', 'r')
both
    while True: print tcpdump.next(),
and
    while True: print tcpdump.readline(),
buffer mutiple lines before printing.

Please cc me in your reply. Thanks,
Shaun


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Mon Oct 18 04:51:13 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:51:13 +0800
Subject: about raw socket
Message-ID: <cl0066$nid$1@netnews.hinet.net>

raw socket only modify such as TTL,TOS,OPTIONS for IP Header...etc
Can it have capability modify other field ?
such as Source Address(IP Address)

thanks everybody 




From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Thu Oct  7 12:35:07 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:35:07 +0200
Subject: Getting and setting the clipboard in Windows
References: <ck3jc7$735$1@newshost.mot.com>
Message-ID: <4165704c$0$7179$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !


This code run, on my CPU :


from win32clipboard import *
import win32con

if __name__=='__main__':
    OpenClipboard()
    txt=GetClipboardData(win32con.CF_TEXT)
    CloseClipboard()
    print txt

    OpenClipboard()
    EmptyClipboard()
    SetClipboardText("AZERTYUIOP123")
    CloseClipboard()


@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau
m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B
sites : http://mclaveau.com   http://bergoiata.org   http://ponx.org





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Oct 12 21:25:42 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:25:42 -0500
Subject: Ok, I'm quite new to Python
In-Reply-To: <ckhrcs$g92$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
References: <ckhrcs$g92$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20041013012541.GB32019@unpythonic.net>

Well, here's a sre-based scanner and recursive-descent parser based on
my understanding of the grammar you gave.

Using a real scanner and parser may or may not be a better choice, but
it's not hard in Python to create a scanner and write a
recursive-descent parser for a simple grammar.

Jeff

------------------------------------------------------------------------
# This code is in the public domain
class PeekableIterator:
    def __init__(self, s):
        self.s = iter(s)
        self._peek = []

    def atend(self):
        try:
            self.peek()
        except StopIteration:
            return True
        return False

    def peek(self):
        if not self._peek: self._peek = [self.s.next()]
        return self._peek[0]

    def next(self):
        if self._peek:
            return self._peek.pop()
        return self.s.next()

    def __iter__(self): return self

def tok(scanner, s):
    return s
def num(scanner, s):
    try:
        return int(s)
    except ValueError:
        return float(s)

import sre
scanner = sre.Scanner([
    (r"/\*(?:[^*]|[*]+[^/])*\*/", None),
    (r"\*?[A-Za-z_][A-Za-z0-9_]*", tok),
    (r"//.*$", None),
    (r"[0-9]*\.[0-9]+|[0-9]+\.?", num),
    (r"[{}]", tok),
    (r'"(?:[^\\"]|\\.)*"', tok),
    (r"[ \t\r\n]*", None),
], sre.MULTILINE)

class Node:
    def __init__(self, name):
        self.name = name
        self.contents = []
    def add(self, v): self.contents.append(v)
    def __str__(self):
        sc = " ".join(map(repr, self.contents))
        return "<%s: %s>" % (self.name, sc)
    __repr__ = __str__
    
def parse_nodes(t):
    n = []
    while 1:
        if t.peek() == "}":
            t.next()
            break
        n.append(parse_node(t))
    return n

def parse_contents(n, t):
    if t.atend(): return
    if t.peek() == "{":
        t.next()
        for n1 in parse_nodes(t):
            n.add(n1)
    while 1:
        if t.atend(): break
        if t.peek() == "}": break
        if isinstance(p, basestring) and t.peek().startswith("*"): break
        n.add(t.next())

def parse_node(t):
    n = Node(t.next())
    parse_contents(n, t)
    return n

def parse_top(t):
    nodes = []
    while not t.atend():
        yield parse_node(t)
    

import sys
def main(source = sys.stdin):
    tokens, rest = scanner.scan(source.read())
    if rest:
        print "Garbage at end of file:", `rest`
    for n in parse_top(PeekableIterator(tokens)):
        print n

if __name__ == '__main__': main()
------------------------------------------------------------------------
$ python michael.py < michael.txt   # and reindented for show
<*Version: 200>
<*SCENE: <AMBIENT_COLOUR: 0.0 0.0 0.0>>
<*MATERIAL_LIST: <*MATERIAL_COUNT: 0>>
<*GEOMOBJECT:
    <*NODE_NAME: '"obj1"'>
    <*MESH:
        <*MESH_VERTEX_LIST:
            <*MESH_VERTEX: 0 0 0 0>
            <*MESH_VERTEX: 1 0 1 2>
        >
        <*MESH_FACE_LIST: <*MESH_FACE: 1 2 3>>
    >
>
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From hjwidmaier at web.de  Sat Oct  2 13:16:18 2004
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:16:18 +0200
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
	<cam7d.455$UP1.116@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<yfsacv5h224.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<C9A7d.1010$M05.151@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.02.17.16.17.432019@web.de>

Am Sat, 02 Oct 2004 15:53:06 +0000 schrieb Andrew Dalke:

> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
>> Thanks -- I didn't know about that (small wonder -- it's undocumented; no
>> docstring and not in the manual).
> 
> It's also cumbersome to use and I worry that some day
> it will disapper.  Does anyone actually use the 'commands'
> module?

Yes, me. Quite a lot, in fact. getstatusoutput() is rather frequent in
some of my scripts. That doesn't mean I like the name, though. ;-)

Hans-Joachim


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 11 18:25:26 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 22:25:26 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.10.16.48.24.930075@jerf.org>
	<4169982d.4238722751@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.10.19.48.01.604089@jerf.org>
	<4169c7ad.4250882926@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.11.00.12.36.26295@jerf.org>
	<416a0afc$0$5686$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.11.15.12.33.931181@jerf.org>
	<416ae09b$0$5691$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.11.17.49.58.650715@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <416b0856$0$5687$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-11, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:35:55 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> I don't know what you mean.  Two's compliment, one's
>> compliment, signed-magnitude, and excess-N _all_ use a single
>> bit for sign.
>
> I meant a single bit exclusively for sign, such that 
>
> 1 00001001
>
> and 
>
> 0 00001001
>
> are the same absolute value. The complements don't work that
> way. I guess that does leave a question for whether 1 is
> positive or negative, but for the purposes of my point, that
> doesn't matter much.

OK, if you meant signed-magnitude, you should have said that. ;)

AFAICT, the only people that use signed-magnitude for _integer_
quantities [IEEE FP representations are signed-magnitude] are
the analog guys who design A/D converters [and somebody needs
to slap them and tell them that out in the real world we want
2's compliment].  

I haven't _ever_ seen a signed-magnitude integer ALU, but I'm
sure some existed back before I started doing this sort of
stuff 25 years ago.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My TOYOTA is built
                                  at               like a... BAGEL with CREAM
                               visi.com            CHEESE!!


From sridharinfinity at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 14:08:39 2004
From: sridharinfinity at gmail.com (Sridhar  R)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 11:08:39 -0700
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <1098554919.264394.222890@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

www.nevow.com



From eric at elmi.com  Mon Oct 25 09:08:58 2004
From: eric at elmi.com (Eric McRae)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 06:08:58 -0700
Subject: Unreliable main window drag for Tkinter/Cygwin
Message-ID: <2ef3032f.0410250508.6825b6d5@posting.google.com>

I have created a somewhat complicated GUI which updates itself every
1/2 second by checking on several non-blocking sockets for data and
modifying StringVars and/or canvas graphs when new information is
present.

The basic structure is:
======
from Tkinter import *

top=Tk()

#define a bunch of gui stuff

def guiUpdate():
    # check for new data and if necessary, update 5 small
    # canvasses (strip charts) and about 10 StringVars
    ...
    top.after(500, guiUpdate)

guiUpdate()
top.mainloop()
=======

This works just great on Linux.  It also works great on CygWin unless
I try to reposition the main window by dragging the title bar.  If I
am still holding the mouse button down when guiUpdate() runs, the main
window sometimes snaps back to its original position.  If I'm fast and
accomplish the reposition between updates, it's fine.  However, for a
normal reposition, the window almost always snaps back, making simple
repositioning irritating.

There are no explicit mouse event bindings on the top level window but
there are several static binds on enclosed widgets.  There are no
dynamic bindings anywhere.

My StripChart class creates a canvass 400 pixels wide.  Updates
involve inserting the new data point at the beginning of an array,
truncating the end of the array if necessary, deleting the previous
tagged line, and doing a create_line()using the updated array.

Since I wasn't sure how the stripchart would be used, I added a
self.canvas.update() at the end of my stripchart.update() method.  If
I comment out that line and just let top.mainloop() handle the
updates, everything seems to work fine.  Is there something wrong with
individual canvas updates?


From busyman at t-online.de  Fri Oct  8 10:34:14 2004
From: busyman at t-online.de (Martin Michel)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:34:14 +0200
Subject: How to determine if a file is busy?
References: <c89d662c.0410080246.52ed9407@posting.google.com>
	<ck5uiv$hhj$1@online.de> <1glcbu7.po1w0e8mxyl6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ck68jf$dck$02$1@news.t-online.com>


"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1glcbu7.po1w0e8mxyl6N%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> Benjamin Niemann <b.niemann at betternet.de> wrote:
>
> > How about writing the data to a file 'mydata.new' and when you are
finished,
> > delete 'mydata' and rename 'mydata.new' to 'mydata'.
> > This way the python script will always get 'complete' files (and
sometimes no
> > file at all, when it come in between rm and mv ...)
>
> I believe that 'mv' on Mac OS X, within a normal filesystem, is an
> atomic operation anyway -- so, so need to rm first then mv.  On the
> other hand, this would give no intrinsic guarantee that the datafile
> previously produced HAS been consumed/recorded before it's removed.
>
>
> Alex

First of all: Thanks so much for your help! I am really astonished about
everybody doing his best to find a solution for my problem.

It might sound funny, but it is not important, that a specific data file has
already been consumed. For me, it is only important, that my Python script
does not open & read a file, which is currently in use by my AppleScript.
It's more like a webcam thing: If a picture taken by the cam, is not put
into the album/webserver, that is no problem, because there will be other
pictures taken by the cam in the future.

The platform independence of Python is great for me as I can fetch the
informations from a Windows XP PC and a Mac to feed the database running in
our electroplating company, but I am also happy to program all the rest of
the application in Python, because as much as I do like AppleScript (Studio)
for its power on the Mac, I hate writing its longish code leading to big
scripts doing little things...Python is just so snappy ;-) (for someone who
has coded a long time in AppleScript)

I am now trying to implement something like a temp file, which I will
finally (after writing all the informations into it) copy into an export
location, where the Python script can fetch it any time. My only concern is,
if copying is also a problem (Python script reads the text file, while the
copy process is not yet finalized...)....

Thanks so much once again, you are a great community, Python is a great
lannguage!

Martin




From zlatozar at hotbox.ru  Wed Oct 13 11:51:36 2004
From: zlatozar at hotbox.ru (News.Individual.NET)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:51:36 +0300
Subject: search in tgz file content
Message-ID: <2t5189F1rf5gmU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi All,
Is there a way to search in *.tgz file? I mean to search in files that are
included in that *.tgz file. Some ideas?

Thanks in advance!
Zlatozar





From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Oct 13 10:10:30 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:10:30 +0200
Subject: locks
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4835.1097670275.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qa-dnWDkDKi-uPDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4845.1097675044.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckjd0k$li6$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> Okay, to clarify, for the most part I *was* in fact referring to "higher
> level issues".  I doubt tracebacks or mangled data would occur simply
> due to the operation's being non-atomic.  However, if you have code that
> say, checks for an item's existence in a list and then appends it if it
> isn't there, it may cause the program to fail if another thread adds
> that item between the time of the check and the time of the append.
> This is what I was referring to by potential for mangled data and/or
> tracebacks.

_That_ of course I'm very well aware of - but to my expirience, with several
dozen threads appending to one list I never encountered a interpreter
failure. That is in contrast to java, where you get an
"ConcurrentModificationException" unless you don't ask specifically for a
synchronized variant of the collection of yours.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From olli at haluter.fromme.com  Thu Oct 21 09:28:28 2004
From: olli at haluter.fromme.com (Oliver Fromme)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 13:28:28 GMT
Subject: excluding search string in regular expressions
References: <pc7fn0l6i0nso8onn0kh6gvt6o3sug4sd0@4ax.com>
	<fc8fn010l31ae6fqoh0ssj0f40beekafug@4ax.com>
	<H3Odd.4622$F6.1272762@news.siol.net>
Message-ID: <2tprrsF23teulU1@uni-berlin.de>

Mitja <nun at example.com> wrote:
 > Franz Steinhaeusler wrote:
 > > Franz Steinhaeusler wrote:
 > > > [...]
 > > > single characters with [^ab] but I need not(ab)
 > > > 
 > > > not_this_brace_pattern(\*\*/\n).*::
 > > 
 > > Sorry,
 > > is this the solution (simple concatenating
 > > [^*][^*][^/]\n.*:: ?
 > 
 > That should do, though it's admittedly far from elegant; I, too,
 > would like to see a nicer solution.

It won't work correctly.  Franz needs a sub-expression that
matches anything which is not "**/".  However, [^*][^*][^/]
is a character-wise negation, not word-wise.  It doesn't
match "**/", but neither does it match "xx/", nor any other
string which has only one or two of the characters at the
right position.

What you need is a "negative look-behind assertion".  The
following Python-RE will do:  (?<!\*\*/)\n.*::
Remember to use raw string notation, or you need to double
the backslashes:

my_re_str = r"(?<!\*\*/)\n.*::"
my_re_obj = re.compile(my_re_str)

Note that you might want to use \s* instead of \n, so any
amount of whitespace (including newlines) is matched, not
just one single newline.

For more information about regular expressions supported by
Python, refer to the Library Reference manual:

http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Konrad-Celtis-Str. 72, 81369 Munich, Germany

``All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream.''
(E. A. Poe)


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Fri Oct 22 07:03:19 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:03:19 +0200
Subject: How do I capture the output of os.system()
In-Reply-To: <84f06f8d.0410220246.7b6876bc@posting.google.com>
References: <84f06f8d.0410220246.7b6876bc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4178E8F7.3050001@geochemsource.com>

You should better use os.popen. Please see the documentation of popen in 
the os module:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/os-newstreams.html#l2h-1380

Frank Teoh wrote:

>I am trying to capture the output of os.system() into a string without
>success. Since os.system() returns only its exit_status, how can I do
>that?
>system(...)
>        system(command) -> exit_status
>        
>        Execute the command (a string) in a subshell.
>
>My aim is to capture the return value of os.system("rsh
><netapp_filer_host> qtree")
>
>Thanks.
>-FT
>  
>



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 30 23:11:07 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:11:07 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41832f8b.1140475326@news.oz.net> <41834032.1144738587@news.oz.net>
	<418357db.1150795766@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41845759.1216201895@news.oz.net>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:02:14 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:48:34 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 06:07:23 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>>[...]
>>>Maybe something useful in this? Not very tested (and not terribly clear either ;-)
>>>
>>> >>> def number_in_base(x, N, digits):
>>> ...     return x==0 and digits[0] or '-'[:x<0] + ''.join([d for d in iter(
>>> ...                 lambda qr=[abs(x),0]:qr[0] and (
>>> ...                     qr.__setslice__(0,2,divmod(qr[0],N)) or digits[qr[1]])
>>> ...                 , 0)][::-1])
>>> ...
>>
>>Alternatively, a little more compactly (though I feel guilty about the -1 ;-):
>>
>> >>> def number_in_base(x, N=10, digits='0123456789ABCDEF'):
>> ...     return '-'[:x<0] + ''.join(list(iter(lambda qr=[abs(x),-1]: (qr[0] or qr[1]<0) and (
>> ...         qr.__setslice__(0,2,divmod(qr[0],N)) or digits[qr[1]]), False))[::-1])
>> ...
>
>Yet another, prefixing digits instead of joining reversed list:
>
> >>> def number_in_base(x, N=10, digits='0123456789ABCDEF'):
> ...     return '-'[:x<0]+reduce(lambda s,c:c+s, iter(lambda qr=[abs(x),-1]: (qr[0] or qr[1]<0)
> ...         and (qr.__setslice__(0,2,divmod(qr[0],N)) or digits[qr[1]]), False))
> ...

My best shot so far (unless I goofed ;-):

 >>> def number_in_base(x, N=10, digits='0123456789ABCDEF'):
 ...     return '-'[:x<0]+''.join([digits[r] for x in [[abs(x)]]
 ...         for x[0],r in iter(lambda:divmod(x[0], N), (0,0))][::-1]) or '0'
 ...
 >>> number_in_base( 126, 2)
 '1111110'
 >>> number_in_base(-126, 2)
 '-1111110'
 >>> number_in_base(-126, 8)
 '-176'
 >>> number_in_base(-126,16)
 '-7E'
 >>> number_in_base(   1,16)
 '1'
 >>> number_in_base(   1, 2)
 '1'
 >>> number_in_base(   0, 2)
 '0'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Oct 20 09:43:22 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:43:22 -0500
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <1gly6gz.1e3w9r85y0tbjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5152.1098149022.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glwdd4.s05uuadrav97N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2tlvdiF20ldc8U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1gly6gz.1e3w9r85y0tbjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041020134321.GA22619@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 09:12:59AM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Anyway, the bytecode that idiom makes is something like:
> 
>               3 LOAD_FAST                0 (other)
>               6 GET_ITER            
>         >>    7 FOR_ITER                10 (to 20)
>              10 STORE_FAST               1 (x)
>              13 LOAD_FAST                1 (x)
>              16 YIELD_VALUE         
>              17 JUMP_ABSOLUTE            7

I think that the other thing the compiler must recognize, beyond this
sequence, is that "x" is dead below the loop (no longer used, or stored
to before the next use).

On the other hand, I guess the new YIELD_VALUES opcode could leave the
last value on the top of the stack, replacing this sequence with
    LOAD_FAST    0 (other)
    GET_ITER
    YIELD_VALUES
    STORE_FAST   1 (x)
I was imagining that YIELD_VALUES would not put anything on the stack,
if it was used to implement a new 'yield from'/'yield *' statement.

Jeff
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From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Fri Oct  1 05:41:38 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:41:38 +0200
Subject: No more command history with cursor keys
References: <1096619099.20537@ftpgate>
	<1gkz5o9.1yipm4e1bewl8jN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1096623037.823368@ftpgate>
Message-ID: <415d2653$0$25221$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Chris wrote:

> Indeed, readline.so exists in my Python2.2 install (part of SuSE 8.2) but
> not in the Python 2.3.4 install that I built. I tried to copy the file but
> there's a mismatch.
> But I don't understand what went wrong: configure / make / make install
> all finished successfully.
> How can I get that readline.so file?
> 
> Chris
> 
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:
> 1gkz5o9.1yipm4e1bewl8jN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
>> Chris <chrisNOSPAM at spam.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Since I've installed (from sources) Python 2.3.4 on SuSE 8.2 the
>> > command history is not working anymore. When I press the cursor keys I
>> > get ^[[A
> or
>> > ^[[B ....
>> > I also tried to install IPython but the same problem is there.
>> >
>> > What's wrong?
>>
>> You appear to be missing some parts of the 'readline' library --
>> probably the 'devel' half of it; or, if you have it installed, it's
>> somewhere the build process for Python and IPython can't find.
>>
>>
>> Alex

You probably forgot to install the libreadline or the libreadline-devel
package on your system before you did the ./configure


From stewart.midwinter at gmail.com  Sat Oct  9 02:30:22 2004
From: stewart.midwinter at gmail.com (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 23:30:22 -0700
Subject: xml file structure for use with ElementTree?
Message-ID: <d4c0d480.0410082230.29766fac@posting.google.com>

I want to parse a file with ElementTree.  My file has the following
format:
<!-- file population.xml -->
<?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8'?>
<population>
<person><name="joe" sex="male" age="49"></person>
<person><name="hilda" sex="female" age="33"></person>
<person><name="bartholomew" sex="male" age="17">
</person>
</population>
note that the population can have more than one person.

I've created the following script to read and parse this file:
<!-- file et1.py -->
from elementtree import ElementTree
tree = ElementTree.parse("population.xml")
root = tree.getroot()
# ...manipulate tree...
tree.write("outfile.xml")

This script works if I have only one <person> record, but with more
than one record, it fails with the following error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "D:\PYTHON23\elementtree\ElementTree.py", line 864, in parse
    tree.parse(source, parser)
  File "D:\PYTHON23\elementtree\ElementTree.py", line 588, in parse
    parser.feed(data)
  File "D:\PYTHON23\elementtree\ElementTree.py", line 1132, in feed
    self._parser.Parse(data, 0)
xml.parsers.expat.ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 3,
column 13

What am I doing wrong?  Do I need to describe the xml structure in
some way?

2nd question. Assuming I can read and parse this file, I can create
and add an element to the tree.  But how would I go about deleting
from the tree the <person> record for, say, name='joe'?

Is there a source of tutorial information anywhere for the use of
ElementTree? I'm looking for a few more examples than those contained
on the effbot.org site - none of which seem to address the question of
input file structure.

thanks
S


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 12 22:41:32 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:41:32 -0700
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <du7655lh914.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <du7r7oa1dst.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<I4j9d.5365$UP1.2717@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<du7655lh914.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <1097635293.4458.77.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 12:08 +0300, Ville Vainio wrote:
> Incidentally, I've remapped my keyboard so that ( and ) don't require pressing
> shift.

*smacks forehead and cries*

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From nicogrubert at arcor.de  Mon Oct 11 06:20:30 2004
From: nicogrubert at arcor.de (Nico Grubert)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:20:30 +0200
Subject: [Zope] how to send email witch attachment in python
In-Reply-To: <20041011081128.4980C1E400E@bag.python.org>
References: <20041011081128.4980C1E400E@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <416A5E6E.2060905@arcor.de>

"Christian Otteneuer" <chotty at freenet.de> wrote in message news:<ck6lr2$10eo$1 at news.uni-koblenz.de>...

>> Hello NG,
>> 
>> How can I send an email with an attachment from a python script?
>  
>
Hi Christian,

it seems you're german, so check out the DZUG (german zope user group) 
mailing list.
During the last days there were some posting about sending e-mails with 
attachments via
Python and DTML as well.


Regards,
Nico


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 15 01:03:22 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:03:22 -0700
Subject: Not enough space error?
In-Reply-To: <005c01c4b25b$f1124150$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
References: <005c01c4b25b$f1124150$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
Message-ID: <1097816603.20309.20.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 10:09 +0800, Joe Wong wrote:
> Hi,
>  
>  I have a script that runs on Windows. Last night, it throw an except
> saying:
>  
> IOError Errno 12 not enough space
>  
> This happens on the "open()" call. I check and there is plenty of
> diskspace available on my Windows 2000 box.
>  
> What could be the cause of this error here?

Is your file sys.stdin?  If so, then perhaps this is relevant:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2004-February/010125.html

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 08:06:23 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:06:23 +0200
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8dkd.1mk43di1xi6v0dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4418.1097061910.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl8lg2.axf8gd9hwlbmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> As part of a pet project of mine, I needed to find a way to re-execute
> a class statement. The reason behind it was simple: the class
> statement in question had some external dependencies that could
> potentially change during the lifetime of the program. I needed to be
> able to execute the class statement block again to produce new
> classes (in opposition to new instances, which would not solve my
> problem)[1].

Interesting problem.


> I solved the problem using inspect to find the current code object
> *inside* the class statement, and stored it in an attribute of the
> class itself. Then, a method of the class can be used to re-create it.
> A metaclass-enabled version is shown below:
> 
> class Meta(type):
>    def __new__(klass, name, bases, dct):
>        dct['my_code'] = inspect.currentframe(1).f_code
>        return type(name, bases, dct)
> 
> class MyClass:
>    __metaclass__ = Meta
>    creation_time = time.ctime()
>    print "I'm inside my class definition!"
>    def re_execute(klass):
>        exec klass.my_code
>        return MyClass
>    re_execute = classmethod(re_execute)

Urk.  Ahem, I mean, interesting solution.  I _think_ it poses certain,
ahem, problems, such as infinite recursion if a call to re_execute is in
the same code object as that where the 'class MyClass' is, for example
-- because basically you ARE re-executing the whole kaboodle.  You're
not just re-executing the 'class' statement, but everything that comes
before or after it in the same containing codeobject.  Your tests in an
interactive interpreter are tricky that way, because in that special
environment a code object is a tiny little thing.  But stick this into a
module and place a dis.dis(dct['my_code']) in the metaclass's __new__
and you'll see that basically MyClass.re_execute isn't very different
from a reload of the module.  Isn't that a _bit_ too much in general?

The code object for the body of the class can also be found (with some
work): it will be among the co_consts of what you've stored as
dct['my_code'], it will be an instance of types.CodeType, and its
co_name will be the same as the 'name' parameter to Meta.__new__.  If
you have more than one code object with those characteristics, e.g. two
classes with the same name at the same module's toplevel, you do have
some trouble.  But otherwise, you can build a function, with
new.function(thatclassbodycodeobject, theglobalsfrominspect), which,
when called (w/o arguments), reexecutes the classbody and returns the
same kind of dictionary that Meta.__new__ is receiving as its 'dct'
argument.  Wouldn't this be preferable to re-executing the whole module
body, perhaps?

> Implementation notes:
> 
> 1) The exec statement actually binds the name to the same original
> name, but in the current local scope. That's why it does a 'return
> MyClass' in the re_execute() method. The MyClass symbol refers to the
> local symbol with this name that was just re-created by the exec
> method.

This also fails if you have multiple uses of name MyClass at toplevel of
the same module -- it actually fails more often than my suggestions
above, e.g if your module is:

class MyClass:
   ... etc ...
FakeName = MyClass
MyClass = 23

then your FakeName.re_execute() will return 23, while the approach I
suggest will be able to recover in this case (the codeobject in the
co_consts of the module's code object will still be the only one in that
container that's named 'MyClass').


> 2) If you call the exec from the same scope where the class was
> originally created, then it is automatically bound to the same name:

Same issue as above -- you're getting closer and closer to a module's
reload (save in the anomalous case where you type the whole class
statement at an interactive prompt;-).  Note that it IS quite possible
that what you want to do IS in fact to reload the module, period, but,
if so, then the reload statement might be handier.

> 3) I thought that the same technique could be made to work without a
> metaclass, but I couldn't make it work. I haven't invested much time
> to understand why -- it just works as implemented above. (It seems
> that it does not bind correctly to the original name as it does if you
> use the metaclass)

It appears to me, but I haven't tested this, that putting the inspect
introspection in the classbody itself should be a sounder technique, as
it should be able to find itself and stash itself away more reliably
than just based on name (which is the best the metaclass can do).  The
name binding issue is separate, however.

> [1] Think about it as a templating mechanism, similar to the C++ one,
> but for Python; this mechanism generates new classes that can be
> instantiated as many times as needed. It's not the same thing as to
> customize a instance during its initialization.

I agree, there's one metalevel of difference between instantiating a
class to make an instance, and instantiating a metaclass to make a
class.


Alex


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Fri Oct 22 15:31:42 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:31:42 -0400
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Me too.  nevow forever...!!!

Hm, it says on their page:

"However, no actual code may be embedded in the HTML template"

alas these are the sort of design decisions that
won't adapt well for real life scenarios.

Should we use code in templates? No. Should we make
every possible effort to prepare the data exactly as
we need. Absolutely.

Yet as soon as the whole thing is working we realize
that we forgot something and that fixing it the
"right way" will cause a significant setback. That's
reality, trying to avoid these by mandating a
certain behavior will only make the framework less
usable.

And that is where ZPT shines. You want full separation
go ahead. You want to bend the rules a bit go ahead.
You want to do it the wrong way and put your entire
program into the first "define" tag, well, guess
what you can do that too.

Where ZPT sucks is in its messy way to deal with
expressions. There are whole bunch of ways to create
them:

     * path expressions - locate a value by its path.
     * exists expressions - test whether a path is valid.
     * nocall expressions - locate an object by its path.
     * not expressions - negate an expression
     * string expressions - format a string
     * python expressions - execute a Python expression

and when one starts combining these all kinds of
peculiarities will have to be dealt with.

Istvan.

ps. as I look that the data/render example, I noticed
the color attribute is actually created in the
code ... IMO this is exactly what we are trying to avoid
with templating. There is no indication in the
template that a new attribute is going to be added
to the tag ...

compare this to the same thing in ZPT:

<span tal:content="name" tal:attributes="style color">Tag Name</span>



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 23 23:16:26 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 20:16:26 -0700
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm4uqv.nmgjbj1vt0spjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0410231916.450f67d@posting.google.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know what this operation is called?  It's not permutations or
> combinations as I understand them since permutations and combinations do
> not allow repetition.  I assume there was already a solution for this
> somewhere, but I didn't know what term to google for.
---------------------------------------------------
aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
> There's been a recent thread where the OP called them 'permutations',
> somebody commented they're 'variations'.  In that thread you'll find a
> bazillion solutions, recursive and non, with or without itertools, &c.
---------------------------------------------------

(1) "Variation" is the same as "permutation". It's matter of
semantics. Some people use the notation V(n, k), some people use the
notation P(n, k). For people that use the term "variation", the term
"permutation" is reserved for the special case V(n, n). Neither name
is right for the original question.

(2) I too googled for the name of the operation of the original
poster. One name I found is "string" (see
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/BallPicking.html). However, this name may
not be universally recognized.

(3) The functional version would be:

strings = lambda Xs, k: reduce(lambda r, i: [p + x for p in r for x
in Xs], range(k), [''])

print strings('abc', 2)

Hung Jung


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Sat Oct 23 16:20:11 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 16:20:11 -0400
Subject: Some more notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
	<QPmdndr7xOOG-efcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <ur7np9og4.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> That's not necessary in almost all cases.  Windows happily(*)
> accepts forward slashes in all system calls.  The only place
> it does not is in the *shell* (aka command.com and cmd.exe). (...)

Actually, almost all system calls.  I don't have the precise list
handy, but there are some related to networking that use UNC names
that expect to see a machine name supplied as a string as "\\machine"
and will not accept "//machine".

-- David


From nomail at no.way  Wed Oct 27 13:35:03 2004
From: nomail at no.way (Bats)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:35:03 +0200
Subject: Fedora 1 and Eric3
References: <cldm39$qo7$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <clfgq2$5hs$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<qKPed.292$rs5.51451@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.5402.1098672126.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clm2o0$h7q$3@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<mailman.5521.1098814103.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clom3g$86s$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Cliff Wells had this to say:

> Fedora 2, but that shouldn't make much difference.??If?the?versions?of
> those rpms for FC1 aren't as new as the FC2 ones the you can just get
> the .src rpm and rebuild it.
> 
> I'm guessing the source of your past problems is that the PyQt rpms you
> tried to use didn't have qtext built in, which is required for eric but
> apparently optional in the build.??The?ones?I?pointed?you?to?have?that
> built in.
Ah. Does Fedora use Python 2.33 by default? I have two versions running and
that causes such conflicts and stress.
I think the changes to Fedora 2 make quite a difference.

I tried monkeybone's repository, but yum complains that it can't resolve all
the deps for Eric3! Go figure, it's in the repository, and even yum can't
solve the puzzle.

I really want one location where I can get all the rpms' in one go. Could
you let me know the URL of the apt-repository that you used?

-- 
Bats
~..~
(I can only post on weekends and rare times during the week.)



From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Oct 14 05:24:41 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:24:41 +0200
Subject: ZODB and Boa
References: <dgrqm05vdauql2cmlpd0f49q747nb8hvu2@4ax.com>
	<ckjspk$ncp$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<u79sm09pfptitmhedgth1si639jo5avjtm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cklgkp$94f$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

> Excuse my newbiehood/ignorance, I'm not sure I understand your reply.
> Would you please elaborate?

I'll try.

>From your first post:
>>> <persistent broken __main__.Calendar instance

As you can see, ZODB tries to instanciate a class Calendar, that is supposed
to be defined in the python file that is executed by the interpreter - thus
resulting in the __name__ == "__main__", and no module-name prefixed to the
class name "Calendar". 

But I doubt that Calendar is defined there, in fact your seconds post code
showed there is only some gui-stuff - instead it will be located in some
module, maybe the "calFrame1" you imported, or in module "code" from your
previous post. I assume the latter for now.

Now when you run the code that first created and stored Calendar objects,
you did run it directly, resulting in the fully qualified classname beeing 

__main__.Calendar 

But now running your app, you want it to be code.Calendar. Unfortunately,
there is no way (or at least not  known to me) to alter the class name
after it has been stored.

So this might help: Delete the ZODB FileStorage, and then rerun your
program. It will work. 

Then look at the module "code". Don't use it as you do now - its generally
not a good idea to let code be executed in a modules rump when its
imported. Instead, rewrite it like this:

class Calendar:
    ....

def init():
    # do the initialization stuff you did before in the rump here

if __name__ == "__main__":
    # if executed directly, reimport ourselves under the desired name, and
then run init
    import code
    code.init()

That should then make things work in both ways.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sun Oct 31 22:22:45 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:22:45 -0500
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on
 rails	...	python on ?)
In-Reply-To: <20041031105512.0C3A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <mailman.5728.1099211579.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.10.31.18.43.39.352636@large.net>
	<20041031105512.0C3A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <4185AC05.7010903@cloudthunder.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>flab ba <flab at large.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:24:31 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
>>>(www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.
>>>
>>> - Josiah
>>>      
>>>
>>You're right - that web site does look quite spiffy. I was deciding on
>>Quixote for my web app framework, but even the author claims that it isn't
>>the right framework if you think a website is a graphics design problem.
>>
>>I'm not a graphics designer, but I need more spiffyness than the MEMS web
>>site - which is done in Quixote.
>>    
>>
>
>I have no experience with any web development frameworks, so have little
>to say in regards to them.  I hope that Quixote, or whichever framework
>you choose, ends up being the right choice for you.
>
> - Josiah
>
>  
>
ZOPE!!!


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Oct 17 07:39:40 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:39:40 +0200
Subject: beginning index for generators
References: <mailman.5041.1097931341.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckrd7q$75n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<tPlcd.6045$gy1.3010@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cktbgm$7cj$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<fWrcd.5708$6k2.1169@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cktll3$704$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> BTW, this is kinda cute with your code
> 
>  >>> list(irange("A", "AAAAAAAAA", "A"))
> ['A', 'AA', 'AAA', 'AAAA', 'AAAAA', 'AAAAAA', 'AAAAAAA', 'AAAAAAAA']
>  >>>

This is of course completely accidental and strongly discouraged :-)
On the other hand I don't like arbitrary limitations like that of the sum()
built-in.

>>>And that's itertools.islice?
>> 
>> 
>> No, but it _calls_ itertool.islice() as you may have noted :-)
>> Its raison d'?tre is that it allows to pass the start, stop, and step
>> attributes of a slice object without looking into the special cases.
> 
> Acutally I didn't notice.  I was on my way out the door and didn't
> look that closely.  My apologies.

De nada. It _was_ named suggestively to trigger your perception.

> Given the worry you had above about the sys.maxint limit, aren't
> you also concerned about the same limits with itertools.islice?

I'm not especially worried about these limits, I just didn't like the look
of xrange(start, sys.maxint-step+1, step) (?) as the substitute for an
open-ended sequence and decided to do it right - after all large indices
are a corner case where the 'iterate' class shines if the iterable is
"indexable", too. As to itertools.islice(), anyone who throws away, say,
the first 2**31 values of an iteration has probably other things than
Python's limitations to worry about.
 
Peter



From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 02:49:14 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 23:49:14 -0700
Subject: types.UnboundMethodType is types.MethodType
References: <mailman.4467.1097114079.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410062249.347a1a82@posting.google.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4467.1097114079.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Just curious. I was trying to test for a class method in some code of
> mine, and stumbled on a few things that I really could not understand:
> 
> # C is a class, m is a class method
> >>> c.m
>  <bound method C.m of <__main__.C instance at 0x0120E350>>
> >>> isinstance(c.m, types.UnboundMethodType)
> True
> # C is a class, cm is a class method
> >>> C.cm
>  <bound method classobj.cm of <class __main__.C at 0x0120D870>>
> >>> isinstance(C.cx, types.UnboundMethodType)
>  True
> >>> types.UnboundMethodType is types.MethodType
>  True
> >>> types.UnboundMethodType, types.MethodType
>  (<type 'instancemethod'>, <type 'instancemethod'>)
> >>> id(types.UnboundMethodType), id(types.MethodType)
> (504034256, 504034256)
> 
> I don't get it. Why to have two different identifiers that are in fact the same?

Backward compatibility?

Here is from the source of types.py:

<...>

class _C:
    def _m(self): pass
ClassType = type(_C)
UnboundMethodType = type(_C._m)         # Same as MethodType
_x = _C()
InstanceType = type(_x)
MethodType = type(_x._m)

<....>


              Michele Simionato


From somebody at unknown.org  Mon Oct 11 05:53:36 2004
From: somebody at unknown.org (..:: sjf ::..)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:53:36 +0200
Subject: define 'in' operator on lists
Message-ID: <ckdl7u$m08$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Hi all,

I want to define 'in' operator (or any "magic" function) on list which 
returns True value if all of list (i.e. _list) elements appears in other 
list (i.e. L) in the same order and False otherwise. By way of example:

L = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]
_list = [3, 4, 5]

if L2 in L0:
	return True
else:
	return False

How to do that?

-- 
.:: sjf ::..
"Linux is like Wigwam. No gates, no windows... Apache inside ;-)"


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 15 04:15:18 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:15:18 +0200
Subject: convert string to list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4868.1097682000.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>	<mailman.4833.1097669719.5135.python-list@python.org>	<ckjf9n$13ob$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
	<mailman.4868.1097682000.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416f88d8$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

Hi,

> #!/bin/bash
> script.py "['a', 'b', 'c']" "['d', 'e', 'f']"
> 
> 
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> import sys
> 
> arglist = []
> for arg in sys.argv[1:]:
>     arglist.append(eval(arg))
> 
> print arglist
> 
> 
Why not just:

script.py "a, b, c" "d, e, f"

Then:
 > arglist = []
 > for arg in sys.argv[1:]:
 >     arglist.append(arg.split(','))

Better than eval.

Regards,
Josef


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct  8 10:42:34 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:42:34 +0100 
Subject: Quixote Question
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434AF4@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Haim Ashkenazi]
| I think you would better get the feel of it if you'll 
| download and run the demos. I just started playing with it, 
| but as far as I understand, you can use it as stand-alone 
| server (using medusa or twisted), as a cgi script,
| as a fastCGI/SCGI or as mod_python. using it with simple CGI interface
| will give poor results (very slow).

Agree with all the above; I would only add that I get quite
respectable performance using straight CGI (which is the
only option I have). Obviously, this is somewhat down to
the server / environment etc. YMMV.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
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From andreas at kostyrka.org  Tue Oct  5 17:36:16 2004
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:36:16 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20041005213616.GA13960@kostyrka.org>

On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 12:48:14PM -0400, Aahz wrote:
> In article <fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044 at news.indigo.ie>,
> Alan Kennedy  <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >I agree that it could potentially be a serious hindrance for cpython if 
> >"multiple core" CPUs become commonplace. This is in contrast to jython 
> >and ironpython, both of which support multiple-cpu parallelism.
> >
> >Although I completely accept the usual arguments offered in defense of 
> >the GIL, i.e. that it isn't a problem in the great majority of use 
> >cases, I think that position will become more difficult to defend as 
> >desktop CPUs sprout more and more execution pipelines.
> 
> Perhaps.  Then again, those pipelines will probably have their work cut
> out running firewalls, spam filters, voice recognition, and so on.  I
> doubt the GIL will make much difference, still.
Actually I doubt that loosing the GIL would make that much performance
difference even on a real (not HT) 4-way box ->
What the GIL buys us is no lock contention and no locking overhead
with Python.

And before somebody cries out, just think how the following trivial
statement would happen.

a = b + c
Lock a
Lock b
Lock c
a = b + c
Unlock c
Unlock b
Unlock a

So basically you either get a really huge number of locks (one per
object) with enough potential for conflicts, deadlocks and all the other
stuff to make it real slow down the ceval. 

One could use less granularity, and lock say the class of the object
involved, but that wouldn't help that much either.

So basically the GIL is a design decision that makes sense, perhaps it
shouldn't be just called the GIL, call it the "very large locking
granularity design decision".

And before somebody points out that other languages can use locks too.
Well, other languages have usually much lower level execution model than
Python. And they usually force the developer to deal with
synchronization primitives. Python OTOH had always the "no segmentation
fault" policy -> so locking would have be "safe" as in "not producing
segfaults". That's not trivial to implement, for example reference
counting isn't trivially implementable without locking (at least
portably).

So, IMHO, there are basically the following design decisions:
GIL: large granularity
MSL: (many small locks) would slow down the overall execution of Python
     programs.
MSLu: (many small locks, unsafe) inacceptable because it would change
      Python experience ;)

Andreas
> -- 
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/
> 
> WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
> reasons for sacrificing a goat.  (with no apologies to John Woods)
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Sat Oct 23 07:35:08 2004
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:35:08 +0100
Subject: wxIEHTML
In-Reply-To: <20041023002214.29660.00006347@mb-m16.aol.com>
References: <20041023002214.29660.00006347@mb-m16.aol.com>
Message-ID: <417a41ec$0$27542$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>

LutherRevisited wrote:
> I know I asked this question before about wxhtml windows(thanks for the
> answer), now I'm wanting links to open up in my default browser when I click on
> them from a wxIE window.  I realize that all I have to do is right-click on the
> link and just open it in a separate window, but in the interests of
> completeness, if anybody can tell me how this can be done I'd be grateful.

In C++ you override the OnStartURL function. I imagine there is an 
equivelent Python function.

Alternatively, if you have control over the html you can set 
target=_blank for all your links.

Will McGugan


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 06:09:31 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:09:31 +0200
Subject: id() collisions on bound methods [was: metaclass
	and	customization with parameters]
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F33@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
	<20041005235752.29723.1522463815.divmod.quotient.10124@ohm>
	<59e9fd3a04100517216b5bf323@mail.gmail.com>
	<864d370904100518566559f66e@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4406.1097030810.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl8gi8.hfvtozu7h4snN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:

> Perhaps someone could devise a metaclass that does bound method caching.
> In a few situations, it might be worth having, but I'm not sure if in
> those situations a little
>     c.f = c.f
> in __init__, or manual hosting like 'f=c.f' is not just as appropriate.

You may well be right, but people to have a reasonable aversion to
manual hoisting and similar optimization-oriented boilerplate -- yeah,
it IS simpler to implement than having it happen behind the scene, but
it clutters up applications.

The metaclass you mention could wrap every function in a specialized
descriptor (which would have to know the corresponding name, given at
init time -- __get__ isn't told the name, a design error IMHO) whose
__get__ delegates to the function's and then caches the result in the
instance.

Measurement suggests that with Python 2.3, normal method calls (to a
'def f(): pass' method) take (on my old machine) 0.91 microseconds/call
without precautions; calls with manual caching as you suggest take 0.86;
calls with an automatic caching descriptors, 0.87.  For once, 2.4 is
minimally slower -- 0.96, 0.90, 0.91.  Considering that a typical method
will do more work than just 'pass', doesn't sound like an optimization
worth pursuing, alas.

_Hoisting_, otoh (the f=c.f idea) takes the time down to 0.66 for 2.3,
0.69 for 2.4 -- now THAT is helpful.  Unfortunately I don't know of an
easy way to automate that.  Maybe Hettinger's recipe on a decorator for
automatic hoisting of globals could be tweaked for the purpose...?


Alex


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Oct  5 06:51:56 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:51:56 +0200
Subject: SimpleHTTPServer: connection reset by peer
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.05.10.51.55.687566@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi,

I try to server a debian DVD via SimpleHTTPServer.
There is only one client which connects to the
server.

I started it like this:
cd /media/dvd
/usr/lib/python2.3/SimpleHTTPServer

There are no errors in the output of the server,
but the clients gets often:
104 Connection reset by peer.

It only happens about every fifth pakage.
After running the "apt-get install" for several
time all pakages get installed.

The output of the server seems OK:

172.17.6.60 - - [05/Oct/2004 12:50:28] "GET
/dvd/debian/pool/main/m/meta-kde/kde-core_3.1.2_all.deb HTTP/1.1" 200 -
172.17.6.60 - - [05/Oct/2004 12:50:29] "GET
/dvd/debian/pool/main/k/kdeedu/keduca_3.1.5-2_i386.deb HTTP/1.1" 200 -

Any hints?

Python 2.3.3 on Suse-Linux

 Regards, 
   Thomas



From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Oct  3 14:29:16 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:29:16 +0200
Subject: append to  items  depending on prior item
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjp8of$b9i$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<cjpeah$vb9$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cjpgdn$ic6$04$1@news.t-online.com>

M. Clift wrote:

> Thankyou, it looks perfect. At the risk of sounding dumb, however, what do
> I print to get your output?

You would print all the stuff inside [], i. e.

result = [i + random.choice(dict(item1="abc", item2="def").get(p, [""])) 
    for (p, i) in zip(items[-1:]+items[:-1], items)]
print result

but: the code was *not* meant to be perfect - rather as close as you can get
to obfuscation in Python. 
You should first describe exactly what you want in terms of input/output.
Stating a problem precisely is often the hardest and largest part of its
solution. After that try to write a script as _simple_ and _clear_ as you
can (in Python as opposed to your pseudocode).
If you then ask on c.l.py for help with a specific problem you encounter or
for possible improvements, you'll end up with an idiomatic and
understandable solution which is not necessarily the shortest.
In short: short != good.

More practially: 
- a plain old for-loop (like in Alex Martelli's post) with a variable to
remember the previous item beats my zip() magic in efficiency and - more
importantly - in clarity.
- if you encounter a long list of if ... elif ... statements, this can often
be simplified into a dictionary lookup.

HTH ...really,
Peter




From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Oct  3 12:18:28 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:18:28 +0200
Subject: append to  items  depending on prior item
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cjp8of$b9i$03$1@news.t-online.com>

M. Clift wrote:

> Now I know that the code is hopelessly wrong

[...]

> Could someone show me a short way

>>> items = "item1 item4 item2 item1".split()
>>> [i + random.choice(dict(item1="abc", item2="def").get(p, [""])) for (p,
i) in zip(items[-1:]+items[:-1], items)]
['item1c', 'item4c', 'item2', 'item1f']


Peter



From holbertr at dma.org  Wed Oct 20 08:53:29 2004
From: holbertr at dma.org (Rick Holbert)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:53:29 -0400
Subject: Can Python run on the Internet
References: <cl58ko$2l0$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <cl5n4d$kne$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

John,

Yes, python can run from the command prompt on a remote computer. I do this
all the time by developing prototypes of my programming assignments in
Python or Jython for my computer science classes.  I then translate the
working prototypes into the target language of the course (Java, C++, C,
etc.).

Some of the free Unix shell providers may have Python installed:

http://www.leftfoot.com/freeshells.html
http://www.ductape.net/~mitja/freeunix.shtml

You could also install Linux on an old PC, hook it up to your LAN, and set
up shell accounts for your students so they can have access to Python from
the command prompt.

In either case, in lieu of telnet, I'd recommend using secure shell (ssh)
because it's more secure.

Putty is a program for Windows that provides ssh capabilities.

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/

Rick

John Mowbray wrote:

> I'd like to use Python in my classes, but some students do not have a
> pc.  They do have access to Internet-connected systems, though.  Is
> there a site someplace on the Internet (preferably a web server) where
> someone can submit a Python program to be run?  Telnet may be possible
> to use, but a browser would be ideal.
> 
> John



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 29 17:38:19 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:38:19 -0700
Subject: Linksys Router & Python
In-Reply-To: <1099078525.7272.37.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <20041029112922.0BD9.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<1099078525.7272.37.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <20041029143557.0BEE.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 11:31 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
> > Some linksys routers offer support for dynamic hostnames via no-ip.org
> > or dyndns.org.  That is, they connect to the dynamic dns server, tell it
> > "hey, I'm now ip address ...", and within about 5-10 minutes, the rest
> > of the world knows it.
> 
> There's also a plethora of scripts (several of them in Python) that do
> the equivalent.  dyndns.org has a listing of many of them.

Then we get back to the chicken and egg problem; the original poster
doesn't want to run their main computer all weekend, and was considering
running a Python script on the router to notify himself that the IP had
changed.

 - Josiah



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 14:55:25 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:55:25 -0300
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <41616B9B.1080009@fastmail.fm>
References: <41616B9B.1080009@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <864d370904100411551f0629c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:26:19 -0400, Arich Chanachai
<macrocosm at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> How hard/easy is it to extend the Python syntax?  Perhaps there are
> macro facilities for this?  I'd like to add messages and message
> passing, for example.

Python doesn't support macros. This same question was raised before in
slightly different ways, and the historical answer seems to be that
macros are not in the plans, and that there are better ways to solve
problems than with macros. In fact, Python is *very* flexible, and
allows the clear expression of several interesting ideas and paradigms
without the need for macros. Could you share more information about
why do you think macros are the best solution for your problem?


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From roy at panix.com  Fri Oct 29 09:21:50 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:21:50 -0400
Subject: Catch unknown exception
References: <pan.2004.10.29.09.36.57.887028@it-snedkeren.BLACK_HOLE.dk>
Message-ID: <roy-617C0E.09215029102004@reader1.panix.com>

In article <pan.2004.10.29.09.36.57.887028 at it-snedkeren.BLACK_HOLE.dk>,
 Thomas Lindgaard <thomas at it-snedkeren.BLACK_HOLE.dk> wrote:

> How do I do that? Is there a way to check which exception is being caught
> - something along the lines of:
> 
>   try:
>     # something throws an exception
>   except:
>     printHumanReadableDescriptionOfException()

You want something like:

import sys
try:
    raise IndexError
except:
    print sys.exc_info()


From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 17:18:58 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 14:18:58 -0700
Subject: Method Underscores?
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0410211318.38944f20@posting.google.com>

It's extremely common for Python newbies to accidentally overwrite
the names of important things.  I see stuff like this all the time:

    list = [1,2,3]
    str = "Hello world"

This sort of accidental trampling would be even more frequent without
the underscores.


And, to play devil's advocate, there are probably a dozen ways to 
hack around the underscores, for those who don't like them:

class __silly__(type):
    def __new__(cls, name, bases, dct):
        # incomplete list - just enough for a demo
        magic_functions = ['init','len','str']
        for f in [x for x in magic_functions if x in dct]:
            dct['__%s__' % f] = dct[f]
        return type.__new__(cls, name, bases, dct)
__metaclass__ = __silly__

class Bar:
    def init(self):
        print "init Bar instance"
    def str(self):
        return "Bar str method"
    def len(self):
        return 23

f = Bar()
>>> "init Bar instance"
str(f)
>>> "Bar str method"
len(f)
>>> 23




"Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote in message news:<9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057 at trndny09>...
> Is there a purpose for using trailing and leading double underscores for 
> built-in method names? My impression was that underscores are supposed 
> to imply some sort of pseudo-privatization, but would using 
> myclass.len() instead of myclass.__len__() really cause Python 
> considerable harm? As much as I adore Python, I have to admit, I find 
> this to be one of the language's most "unPythonic" features and a key 
> arguing point against Python. I've searched for a discussion on this 
> topic in the groups archives, but found little. What are everyone's 
> thoughts on this subject?


From anthony at python.org  Sun Oct 17 10:26:24 2004
From: anthony at python.org (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:26:24 +1000
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.4, beta 1
Message-ID: <41728110.9020605@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
happy to announce the first beta of Python 2.4.

Python 2.4b1 is an beta release. We'd greatly appreciate it if you could
download it, kick the tires and let us know of any problems you find,
but it is probably not suitable for production usage.

~    http://www.python.org/2.4

Notable changes in beta1 include a new subprocess module to provide a
more convenient interface to spawning processes and a new command line
argument -m modulename to run a module from the library. See either the
highlights, the What's New in Python 2.4, or the detailed NEWS file --
all available from the Python 2.4 webpage.

This is the first beta release of Python 2.4. Python 2.4 is now in the
beta part of the release cycle - there should be few or no new features,
merely bug fixes. There will be at least one more beta in a couple of
weeks, followed by a release candidate and then the final release.

Please log any problems you have with this release in the SourceForge
bug tracker (noting that you're using 2.4b1):

~    http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=5470

Enjoy the new release,
Anthony

Anthony Baxter
anthony at python.org
Python Release Manager
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBcoEMDt3F8mpFyBYRAhJhAKCCclb5ytuljQIGvIz9dIV2LmL0KQCgl5DX
357fPses//NSjyK+7B10YPg=
=lzWC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From saltamontes at uboot.de  Thu Oct 21 14:43:23 2004
From: saltamontes at uboot.de (benjamin)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 11:43:23 -0700
Subject: protect resources (images) within a pygame-program
Message-ID: <2289a427.0410211043.357032cf@posting.google.com>

A pygame/python game resource question
######################################
I wander whether there is any possibility to compile a bunch of
resources for a program, like images and soundfiles into a package
like, let?s say "game.dat", so they do?t fly around in the programs
folder und can be edited by everyone.
Hope somebody can help me.


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Fri Oct  8 02:51:58 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:51:58 +0200
Subject: subclassing builtin types
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4547.1097209393.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4547.1097209393.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ck5d83$qmn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

BJ?rn Lindqvist schrieb:
> There are quite a few other problems I
> can't solve too, but getting the [] operator right seems almost
> impossible.

Since I don't know what other problems you have, I'm just guessing. Maybe this one helps?

http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html#__new__

Stefan


From xeranic at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 08:38:58 2004
From: xeranic at yahoo.com (Xin Wang)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 05:38:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: About lambda.
Message-ID: <20041022123858.8490.qmail@web90001.mail.scd.yahoo.com>

Some c++ guru said c++ is hard to learn but easy to
use. Is python easy for both aspect? I found lot's of
confused in coding.

#code
from Tkinter import *

def on_click(m):
    print m
def lamb_on_click(m):
    return lambda : on_click(m)
root = Tk()
btns = ['0', '1', '2', '3']
for n in btns:
    b = Button(root, text=n, command=lamb_on_click(n))
#Ok!
    b.pack()
root.mainloop()
#

Or, 

#code
...
    b = Button(root, text=n, command=lambda x=n:
click(x)) #Ok!
...
#

The code above works well too, but follow is NOT! WHY?

#code
...
    b = Button(root, text=n, command=lambda :
on_click(n))
...
#

Whichever button be clicked, this only print '3'. 

Keyword 'lambda' is just like a macro in c or templete
in c++ or not?



		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Oct 11 16:05:50 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:05:50 -0700
Subject: Database Connectivity
In-Reply-To: <BvCdne92t9yqU_fcRVn-pw@megapath.net>
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
	<1gl8by8.1ay6g301hrswe8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<XZfad.18001$b5.884997@news3.tin.it>
	<Bdhad.18298$b5.899971@news3.tin.it>
	<BvCdne92t9yqU_fcRVn-pw@megapath.net>
Message-ID: <1097525151.1090.164.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 11:17 -0700, R Baumann wrote:

<snip stuff I don't disagree with>

> 3.  When Access 2000 was released, MS included a version of MS-SQL Server
> called the MSDE(Microsoft Database Engine) that was a deliberately
> watered-down version of MS-SQL Server 7.  By watered down, I mean that MSDE
> could handle up to 5 concurrent PROCESSES before a governor kicked in to
> deliberately slow things down.  This was to prevent MSDE being used in areas
> where an industrial strength DB Server needs to be used.  A marketing issue?
> You bet.  But, MSDE has been know to work very reliably in small user LANS,
> and workgroups of up to about 25 users with a medium to somewhat heavy
> workload.  And, if the workload is fairly light up into the hundreds.  If
> the workload is light, OR, ESPECIALLY if the developer knows what they're
> doing, the governor won't kick in that often. Processes can be made to be
> efficient.  Unless you're a huge corporation with hundreds or thousands of
> users, this is more than good enough to handle most small companies, and if
> those companies grow larger, the upgrade path to full blown SQL Server is
> just a simple step to attach the tables from MSDE to SQL Server.

But the question remains: why use a "watered down" version of a
database, or pay for an "industrial-strength" version of it when there
are free alternatives that actually surpass both versions?

> <GASP!>  M$ sells stuff for money!  Why not?  I like to eat, you like to
> eat.  Don't like Microsoft?, sounds like a personal problem to me. 

Frankly your entire rant sounds like a personal problem.

>  I don't
> like everything they do either, but to pay my salary, the company I work for
> has to make money, not live on indignant or righteous attitudes.  I use
> whatever works best for the particular customer I have to work with. 

Reasonable attitude.  Despite being a Linux afficianado, I still
recommend Windows for most user's desktops, simply because there isn't
enough payoff to justify the learning curve for most people were they to
switch.  Linux has major advantages over Windows in many areas, but the
desktop currently isn't one of them.

>  If MS
> has a product that does what I need it to, I'll use it.  If Python is a
> better way to do things, I'll use it, if QBasic, if Delphi, if...

You'll use QBasic?  And where will you get it from?  I point this out
simply to highlight your apparent blindness to Microsoft's abandonment
of actively used tools (which you cite later as a reason to prefer MS
over open source projects).

> 4.  Don't like SQL Server? use ODBC.  I've done Access apps using Btrieve,
> MySql, Interbase/Firebird and others as the backend data engine, and Access
> as the GUI front end.  My development time in Access is 1/3 to 1/2 the time,
> and with fewer errors.

1/3 to 1/2 the time of what and with fewer errors than what?  And when
you've specified that, for what complexity of the previously
unmentioned?  Access, VB, and, in fact, most "RAD" development tools
work best with simple applications.  Their friendliness and simplicity
quite often become a liability for more complex applications.  It's been
a few years since I was forced to use Access, but as I recall, it wasn't
even possible to design forms (dialogs) with dynamic layout using those
tools.  Quite frankly I doubt there is much to be gained in development
time with using Access over a combination of Python, PostgreSQL and
wxPython/Tk or even a web interface.  But I don't doubt the lack of
flexibility one would incur with that choice.  

> 5.  JET is no longer being actively enhanced.  It IS being maintained.
> Eventually it will fade away, but the MSDE will still be there.  Access is
> now up to version 2003 just in case anyone is interested.  MSDE is up to
> version 2000 or perhaps more by now.  It's a free download from the MS
> website.  There ARE some licensing issues, so pay attention to them if you
> download.  

JET will fade away.  Gasp!  Yet another MS technology that won't be
around?

> Not everything in the world has to be or should be "free" or
> "open source".

Agreed.  But when it's already there, and it's superior to the
commercial version, why wouldn't you use it?  Bigotry?

> Don't get me wrong.  I love the idea of Open Source.  I make use of it quite
> often.  My problem with it is when the primary developer gets tired of the
> project, which often happens after a year or two, it generally dies because
> no-one is interested in taking over, or the project stagnates. MS never
> said they were in business to produce free or open source software, and at
> least they don't let their products stagnate.  It takes money to build and
> maintain a Word, or an Excel, or an Access, and sometimes I absolutely need
> to use a product I know is going to be around a while, and be supported.

PostgreSQL (started around 1986 as a research project, moved to its
current open-source status around 1995 [also when SQL support was
added]) has certainly been around at least as long as the equivalent
Microsoft products (SQL Server was released around 1989 on OS/2, 1992 on
Windows), so I fail to see your point here.  Also, holding Microsoft up
as an example of a company that supports its own products for extended
periods of time is probably ill-advised.  The original version of SQL
Server doesn't exist in any incarnation, nor does Microsoft support the
OS it ran on (OS/2), despite having hyped it as the next major PC
platform.  In fact, the current version of SQL Server is a complete
rewrite that actually qualifies as a completely unrelated product
despite having the same name.  You yourself have mentioned at least two
MS technologies that either no longer exist or are being phased out
(QBasic and JET). Now, unlike you, I'm going to be fair and acknowledge
that this is simply the nature of software.  Microsoft, and its open
source competitors, do well to occasionally abandon existing platforms
as new technologies, architectures, and plain old hindsight dictate.  

> 6.  Finally, MS is positioning Access to be a GUI front-end to any database,
> and the hooks are already there.  Look for a .NET version in the future.

Access is terrific for creating *Windows* GUIs for databases (whatever
database is chosen).  Of course if you need (or simply want) cross-
platform, very few Microsoft technologies are going to help you.  .NET
is being held up as such a solution but quite frankly, given Microsoft's
bait-and-switch tactics of the past, I'll maintain a wait-and-see
attitude until proven otherwise.

> Sorry about the long rant, but so much mis-information has been passed along
> in this thread and in  past threads, mainly due to so much MS hatred,
> deserved or not, that  I felt I had to speak up.  

Well, certainly opinions of MS are just that.  But all else aside,
Microsoft made my job miserable for enough years with shifting API's,
buggy software, inflexible/limited/incompatible tools that I feel quite
justified in my contempt for them.  And that's before considering their
company from any ethical standpoint.

> I get the impression that
> most of the info comes from people parroting other people, and not really
> knowing about the products that they are dis'ing.  

And I get the impression that people who defend Microsoft simply haven't
tried anything better.  I suppose we could continue to view each other's
positions through Monet-tinted glasses but I doubt that really gets us
anywhere.  Try foaming at the mouth just a little less and instead focus
on forwarding self-consistent arguments and perhaps you'll be a bit more
convincing.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut  Tue Oct 26 23:41:03 2004
From: SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut (SeeBelow at SeeBelow.Nut)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 03:41:03 GMT
Subject: replacing batch file with python script
References: <417EF91F.929B1D69@shaw.ca>
	<1098840805.325388.93690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <417F192C.E2CE5605@shaw.ca>

Sridhar R wrote:
> 
> Don't use exec family of functions. Use os.system.

Thanks, that seems to do what I want.

m

-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  In
practice, there is.

http://annevolve.sourceforge.net is what I was into until recently.  My
interest will revive when someone takes up my "SailChallenge".
Humans may write to me at this address: zenguy at shaw dot ca


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 19 07:54:52 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:54:52 -0400
Subject: Packaging Python Apps
In-Reply-To: <w7CdnbnX8KsXTencRVn-tw@comcast.com>
References: <w7CdnbnX8KsXTencRVn-tw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <Uk7dd.2977$lp6.313@okepread01>

Peter wrote:

> Are there commands that can be used to install python apps into a dummy tree
> for later packaging? I would like to accomplish either of the following:
> 
> when I run python setup.py install
> 
> can I
> 
> 1) deposit all files into a specified directory like when I do
> make install DESTDIR=/foo
> 
> 2) have a do-nothing install like
> make -n install
> 
> Thx
For 1), wouldn't

	python setup.py build

or its variants suffice.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From uche at ogbuji.net  Fri Oct  1 19:52:10 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 16:52:10 -0700
Subject: html processing
References: <mailman.3889.1096080722.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0410011552.4442f7a@posting.google.com>

Ismael Herrera <ismaelherreragasser at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.3889.1096080722.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Why does the htmllib has such simple parsers? i think that making something
> more complicated that printing 'i am inside post tag' is too hard with this
> library since the parsers doesnt help at all. 
> 
> So the htmllib is a regex search with empty methods? i can do that by
> myself, no need use a parser, i am a litle confused in this.
> 
> Is there a python html parser that creates objects from html sources,like
> xml.dom?

http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html

-- 
Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
 
A hands-on introduction to ISO Schematron -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-xschematron-i.html
XML circles the globe - http://www.javareport.com/article.asp?id=9797
Principles of XML design: Considering container elements -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-contain.html
Hacking XML Hacks - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think26.html
A survey of XML standards -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stand4/


From nospam at nospam.com  Thu Oct 28 11:38:42 2004
From: nospam at nospam.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:38:42 +0200
Subject: OSA Python
In-Reply-To: <69cbbef2.0410280618.1bc1cc16@posting.google.com>
References: <417d39ec$0$62032$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<417f74f3$0$62050$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<69cbbef2.0410280618.1bc1cc16@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41811277$0$46393$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>

Has,

Thank you for the reply. I am sorry to hear that development of 
the OSA extension has probably stopped due to tragical 
circumstances. It is good to know why I will probably never find 
that extension, though, as I would have been searching forever.

Mark

has wrote:
> I think Bill disappeared very suddenly off the net sometime back in
> 2002. I don't know if anyone knows what happened to him or has heard
> or seen of him since. (I heard he went offline after discovering he
> was ill - cancer or something - but don't have any more details.)
> 
> As to your request for an OSA-compatible version of Python for OS9, if
> no-one's replied to you about this then chances are it's not/never
> hass been available. Current work on MacPython's Apple event and OSA
> component support is all OS X-based (see
> <http://homepage.mac.com/philip_aker/osa/osa.html>,
> <http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/appscript.html>) so
> you're probably SOOL as far as finding anything for OS 9 goes.
> 
> Sorry I can't be more help,
> 
> has

-- 

eHUG coordinator
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.ehug.info



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 02:21:26 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:21:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: 2 Newbie questions.
References: <Tl49d.425544$8_6.322047@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <loom.20041007T081744-559@post.gmane.org>

Len Sumnler <pcslen <at> comcast.net> writes:
> I have searched the net and performed chmod +x mypython.py and added as the 
> first line of my program #!/usr/bin/env python.  When I try to run the 
> program as follows $ mypython.py I get the error message of, "bash: 
> mypython.py: command not found".  What am i doing wrong.

Not really a Python question, but maybe I can help anyway.  A couple of things 
to check:

1) Does "/usr/bin/env python" work at the shell prompt?  If not you probably 
don't have python on your path.

2) If "/usr/bin/env python" does work for you from the shell, did you create 
mypython.py on a Windows machine?  I've gotten these errors occasionally when 
moving a script from a Windows box to a Unix box because the shell doesn't 
like the \r's that Windows puts at the end of lines.  You could try using 
dos2unix or a similar script to remove these.

Steve




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 08:17:08 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:17:08 +0200
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via
	pseudo-functi	on o verloading.
References: <mailman.5417.1098704247.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm9oj8.fyczraah3ol5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<Doran_Dermot at emc.com> wrote:
   ...
> It's interesting to note that you prefer code like: theProblem.title = "The
> Title"
> 
> However, I wonder if people coming from the Java/C++ world prefer:
> theProblem.title( "The Title" )
> 
> Obviously the first version is less typing! However, the second version
> might feel more natural to Java/C++ programmers.  Just an observation!

If you want to accomodate Java crazies (with setFoo/getFoo manias,
universal there) you might...:

>>> class x(object):
...   def __getattr__(self, name):
...     if name.startswith('get') and name[3:4].isupper():
...        n = name[3:4].lower() + name[4:]
...        return lambda: getattr(self, n)
...     raise AttributeError, name

and whatever else.  Now, you can read any attribute of instances of x
with that silly syntax to your heart's contents.  E.g.:

c = x()
c.foo = 23
print c.getFoo()

There!  The ULTIMATE Java-Python bridge.  Now, at last, nothing will
impede Python from vying for the hearts and minds of Javaites.  (BTW: it
works just fine with properties, too).

The extension of this idea to methods such as setFoo is left as an
exercise to the reader, as is the trivial optimization of caching the
lambda into self, just in case it's repeatedly called.


Alex


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 03:37:08 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 00:37:08 -0700
Subject: Database and Interface for Python
References: <6f402501.0410071411.17321f9a@posting.google.com>
	<KcednWHIrJg6WfjcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410072337.61c4590d@posting.google.com>

[snip..]
> > I guess this is as bad a time as anyto start to learn to use a
> > database !! So I look on google and the situation is a little unclear.
> > I can use the database API that will give me a 'consistent
> > interface'... but I still need a database engine installed. e.g.
> > MySQL. Not only that but I need a python interface to that engine that
> > the database API can use ? (or I can just directly use the python
> > binding for whichever database I pick ?).
> 
> Python has a good DB interface to MySQL that works well.
> > 

Am I right in thinking that is the MySQLdb python interface at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python

This supports versions of MySQL up to 4.0.... ??

Thanks for your help.


Regards,


Fuzzy


> > I think the web server I use will allow MySQL databases, so if I
> > install it on my windoze box and install the MySQLdb python module
> > then I'm well away....
> > 
> > 
> > Have I got it right ? Can I do 'date range' queries using MySQL,
> > MySQLdb and the Python database API ?
> 
> Yes you can.  Dates are stored in special format (not text) in the
> database that make searching/sorting possible.  You can also define
> index on a date column and jump directly to a specific date (skipping
> all dates you don't want to process) or range of dates.
> 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > 
> > Fuzzy
> > 
> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From littlejohn.75 at noos.fr  Thu Oct 21 12:56:13 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 16:56:13 GMT
Subject: Matrix (list-in-list), how to get a column?
References: <mailman.5261.1098371947.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4177d9e5$0$842$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<2tq5d6F214dqtU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4177ea2d$0$29509$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:10:50 -0400, Russell Blau <russblau at hotmail.com> wrote:
> "F. Petitjean" <littlejohn.75 at noos.fr> wrote in message
> news:4177d9e5$0$842$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
>> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:19:04 +0200, Arvid Andersson <arvid at linux.se>
> wrote:
>> >
>> > I have some data that looks like this:
>> > data = [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]]
>> >
> ...
>> >>> import Numeric as N
> ...
> 
>> Hope that helps.  Don't hesitate to try directly at the interpreter
>> prompt.
> 
> Ok, let's see what happens:
> 
>>>> import Numeric as n
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ImportError: No module named Numeric
> 
> I think you left out a step in your instructions.... ;-)
> 
Numeric is the name of the "Numeric python" package aka Numpy.
I think that you can find it on sourceforge.net, alongside a new version
called Numarray. So, The numeric arrays are interesting as they store
homogeneous items (typically integers or floats) and can have multiple
dimensions. Slicing  (pts[:,1] for instance) is very convenient.

Regards.


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct 16 23:39:05 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 03:39:05 GMT
Subject: beginning index for generators
In-Reply-To: <ckrd7q$75n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.5041.1097931341.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckrd7q$75n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <tPlcd.6045$gy1.3010@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Peter Otten wrote:
> def irange(start, stop, step):

Isn't that xrange?

> def islice(iterable, start, step, stop):

And that's itertools.islice?

> class iterate(object):
>     def __init__(self, iterable):
>         self.iterable = iterable
>     def __getitem__(self, s):
>         if not isinstance(s, slice):
>             raise ValueError("supports only slices")
>         start, stop, step = s.start, s.stop, s.step
>         if hasattr(self.iterable, "__getitem__"):

And doesn't that test fail for dictionaries?

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct 30 09:38:00 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:38:00 +0200
Subject: Plugin system
Message-ID: <2uhjppF2a61u6U1@uni-berlin.de>

Hello,

another philosophical question:

How would you implement a plugin system (for a web-based application)?

Conditions are:
 - One plugin can have one or many "parts" (or "subplugins", or whatever)
 - Each subplugin has a type
 - The rest of the plugin interface is dependent on the type

I have one possible solution in mind, but I want to wait for your
opinion before revealing it.

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 26 01:34:42 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:34:42 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1098768882.22370.230.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 21:25 -0700, kartik wrote:

> integers are used in different ways from strings. i may expect file
> paths to be around 100 characters, and if i get a 500-character path,
> i have no problem just because of the length. but if a person's age is
> 500 where i expect it to be less than 100, then **definitely**
> something's wrong.

So Python should raise an exception if it notices that your variable is
named "age" and you've put a number greater than 100 in it?  I'm amazed
there isn't already a PEP on this.  Have you checked to make sure?

> as another example, using too long a string as an index into a
> dictionary is not a problem (true, the dictionary may not have a
> mapping, but i have the same issue with a short string). but too long
> an index into a list rewards me with an exception.

I'd rather be rewarded with a cookie.

> as i look at my code, i rarely have an issue with string sizes, but if
> an integer variable gets very large (say > 2**31 or 2**63), it
> generally reflects a bug in my code.

Well, of course.  After all, there are only 2**63 numbers in the
universe, so any number higher than that is clearly an error.  In fact,
given that so many people use numbers on a regular basis, I suspect
there are actually far fewer numbers left now than there were
originally.

> i suggest u base your comments on real code, rather than reasoning in
> an abstract manner from your ivory tower.

I can see why you would want to avoid that.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 03:08:51 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:08:51 +0200
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5640.1099009520.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmeu3u.im5fsf1ufxu4iN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
   ...
> >Language       Type of Language     Execution Time Relative to C++
> >C++            compiled             1
> >
> Now since when was C++ as fast as itself?

Well, this is ONE line in the table nobody's gonna disprove!-)


> >Table 4-1 of the same book shows the "ratio of high-level-language
> >statements to equivalent C code" (higher is better):
   ...
> >Java                    2.5
> >Microsoft Visual Basic  4.5
> >
> Higher-level than Java?  Well, you surely pay for this in language 
> features and language design sensibility.

That's another issue, and harder to quantify.  Counting average number
of statements per function point, which is what "language level" means
in this context (and the table's title is very explicit about it), it
does seem right -- of course the precision of these numbers is dubious,
it could be, say, Java=3 and VB=4, &c.

> >Perl                    6
> >Python                  6
> >
> Not above Perl?  I shall have to think about this one.

In statements per function point?  Idiomatic Perl tends to be way more
cryptic and terse than idiomatic Python; that Python pulls back to rough
parity (and I do agree with this table that it does) is, in a sense,
surprising.

Note that this need not translate to same-productivity, although "fixed
number of LOCs/hour" is a long-standing hypothesis of the Function
Points theorists.  Prechelt's work couldn't _disprove_ the hypothesis in
a statistically significant way, but if you eyeball the language medians
in the LOCs/hr graphs in his IEEE Computer article (available as a PDF
on the net), you get the strong visual impression that, while most
languages do cluster in that measure, Java tends very much to the low
end of the cluster (20 LOCs/hr) and Python to the high end (40).


> >http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf
> >"An Empirical Comparison of Seven Programming Languages", by Lutz
> >Prechelt, IEEE Computer, October 2000, 23-29.

Yep, THIS paper!-)


Alex


From psuspam at grinchcentral.com  Thu Oct  7 15:25:53 2004
From: psuspam at grinchcentral.com (Erik Rose)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:25:53 -0400
Subject: ActivePython/IIS Request Concurrency
Message-ID: <B41E59D5-1896-11D9-8DF7-000A95B6C878@grinchcentral.com>

First, thanks to everybody who's helped me with this problem,  
especially Robert Brewer, who continually provided encouragement that  
yes, my setup _can_ be made to work. :-)

Here's the beef: Python was acting serialized on my server because IIS  
goes to extra trouble to forcibly serialize _all_ ASP requests made by  
a given user within the scope of a given ASP "application". This  
applies equally to Python, PerlScript, VBScript, etc. and has nothing  
to do with Python per se. Isn't that fun? IIS sets a cookie (something  
like Set-Cookie: ASPSESSIONIDSQCARCQR=PPBNINLCAPCFOCDHMNPGCCFB; path=/)  
on your first request and checks it on subsequent ones. It apparently  
keeps a separate queue of requests for each cookie, and no more than  
one ASP script requested by an identically-cookied browser is allowed  
to run at a time. Thus, as long as you turn off cookies or use a couple  
different browsers in your testing, everything is nicely concurrent. In  
the wild, obviously, it will be unproblematic because each user will  
get his own cookie. Phew!!  
(http://groups.google.com/groups? 
threadm=uopADcr%23DHA.4060%40TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl provided the needed  
breakthrough.)

Many thanks again to everybody who replied. I'm off to enjoy my lovely  
new language!

Cheers,
Erik Rose
Programmer/Analyst
Pennsylvania State University

P.S. Robert was reporting that his stuff runs concurrently no matter  
what he does. I'm guessing he either has cookies off or else has  
unchecked "Enable session state" in IIS Manager for that site. Either  
of these true, Robert?



From stephendotboulet at motorola_._com  Tue Oct 19 13:40:33 2004
From: stephendotboulet at motorola_._com (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:40:33 -0500
Subject: popen and two-way communication
In-Reply-To: <3b091a1c.0410190355.5543b3e1@posting.google.com>
References: <cl1gmk$rgq$1@newshost.mot.com>
	<3b091a1c.0410190355.5543b3e1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cl3jni$8nh$1@newshost.mot.com>

cmkl wrote:

> You may be interested in the new subprocess module:
> 
> 1) PEP:
>    http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/whatsnew/node8.html
> 
> 2) source code:
>    http://www.lysator.liu.se/~astrand/popen5/
> 
> 3) Windows builds (pre Python-2.4):
>    http://effbot.org/downloads/#subprocess
> 
> Regards
> 
> Carl

Thanks for the links. I hope someone writes some examples soon!  ;)

Stephen


From mike at hobbshouse.org  Wed Oct 13 13:13:16 2004
From: mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:13:16 -0000
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de> <Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmm29m.8la.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <10mqohcr5he5rc0@corp.supernews.com>

Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote:
> Now, imagine you are setting up an animation this way:
> 
> after(10, lambda: sprite.move(0, 5))
> after(15, lambda: sprite2.rotate(30))
> after(20, lambda: sprite.scale(120, 120))
> after(22, lambda: sprite2.move(50, 50))
> after(22, lambda: sound1.play())
> after(23, lambda: sprite.move(0, 0))
> after(26, lambda: sound1.stop())

Others have already mentioned altering the definition of the after()
function, but you do not always have a pre-existing function that does
exactly what you want, such as sprite2.rotate() or sound1.play(). Here
is how I would do it, if lambda wasn't available:

def lambda_():
	sprite.move(0, 5)
after(10, lambda_)
def lambda_():
	sprite2.rotate(30)
after(15, lambda_)
def lambda_():
	sprite.scale(120, 120)
after(20, lambda_)
etc...

I haven't verified this code in an actual interpreter, but I see no
reason why it shouldn't work. I don't believe that there is any restriction
on redefining functions. (pychecker might complain, though)

This style isn't PEP 8 compliant, but if you don't like having two extra
lines, you can always shrink it down to just one extra:

def lambda_(): sprite.move(0, 5)
after(10, lambda_)
def lambda_(): sprite2.rotate(30)
after (15, lambda_)
etc...


- Michael Hobbs



From dimator at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 01:01:31 2004
From: dimator at gmail.com (Dimi Shahbaz)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 05:01:31 GMT
Subject: Compiling to a library, instead of an executable?
Message-ID: <2004102422013016807%dimator@gmailcom>

Hi,
I've seen a few tools to create standalone executables from python 
scripts (py2exe, cx Freeze).  My question is, has anyone created a tool 
to create standalone libraries (.a, .so, .dll) from python scripts?  
I'd like to create a library, written in python, and compile it for 
other programs (in C, et al) to link with.  I wouldn''t mind bundling 
python23.dll with it.

This seems like it would be possible, but I couldn't find anything in 
the docs or via google.  I'm probably missing something simple, though. 
 The closest thing I found was:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-November/130845.html

but that seems like an awkward solution.

TIA,
Dimi







From darren at coolpink.net  Sun Oct  3 14:04:08 2004
From: darren at coolpink.net (darren at coolpink.net)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 18:04:08 -0000
Subject: PythonUtils Update - ConfigObj Docs and file upload
Message-ID: <20041003180408.9061.qmail@ws2.coolpink.net>

Sorry, but I am out of the office on Monday 27th September until Monday 11th October 2004.

I will respond to your e-mail when I return

If you need technical support please contact simonh at coolpink.net or mazen at coolpink.net

For any other enquiries please call the office on (0113) 272 3191 

Thanks for your e-mail.




From franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at  Thu Oct 21 09:12:49 2004
From: franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:12:49 +0200
Subject: excluding search string in regular expressions
References: <pc7fn0l6i0nso8onn0kh6gvt6o3sug4sd0@4ax.com>
	<fc8fn010l31ae6fqoh0ssj0f40beekafug@4ax.com>
	<H3Odd.4622$F6.1272762@news.siol.net>
Message-ID: <02dfn0dvebf10uleb8m9kia8nm8cjkhg8n@4ax.com>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:40:24 +0200, "Mitja" <nun at example.com> wrote:

>Franz Steinhaeusler wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:36:46 +0200, Franz Steinhaeusler
>> <franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> single characters with [^ab] but I need not(ab)
>>>
>>> not_this_brace_pattern(\*\*/\n).*::
>>
>> Sorry,
>> is this the solution (simple concatenating
>> [^*][^*][^/]\n.*:: ?
>
>That should do, though it's admittedly far from elegant; I, too, would like to see a nicer solution.
>
>> The background:
>> I want to scan cpp file, whether the have a doxygen
>> comment already: It should find all postitions, where
>> this is missing:
>>
>> ok
>>
>> doxygen comment
>> **/
>> void CBs::InitButtonPanel (int progn1, int progn2)
>
>In this case, I'd replace \n with \w*, meaning any amount of whitespace.
>

Hello, thank you.

Oh, not really right (about finding c function/method definition):

[^*][^*][^/]\w*.*[)]*[^;]


if func()
{

would also be found.

A more common solution for detecting functions/Methods would be fine.

[^*][^*][^/]\w*--c-method/function/definition


-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From jbellis at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 23:58:13 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan  Ellis)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 20:58:13 -0700
Subject: Sun Micro engineers bashing Java,
	and mentioning Python even Eiffel
In-Reply-To: <9q28d.2727$Vm1.636@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <9q28d.2727$Vm1.636@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1096862293.761279.129710@k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com>

Adonis wrote:
> I do not know if this was ever posted on here but check this Sun
Micro
> internal memo out:
>
> http://www.internalmemos.com/memos/memodetails.php?memo_id=1321

As you say, that's from 2000.  Modern Java is significantly faster than
Python.  (This also means Jython has narrowed the gap with CPython
without any code changes. :)

-Jonathan



From baas at ira.uka.de  Mon Oct 11 14:37:26 2004
From: baas at ira.uka.de (Matthias Baas)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:37:26 +0200
Subject: ANN: Python Computer Graphics Kit v1.2.0
Message-ID: <vlklm05ff2snfb994gjm2qmhd3vld6s813@4ax.com>

Release 1.2.0 of the Python Computer Graphics Kit is available at
http://cgkit.sourceforge.net

What is it?
-----------

The kit is a collection of Python modules that contain the basic types
and functions required for creating 3D computer graphics images. The
kit includes several new types such as vectors, matrices and
quaternions. It contains a binding for Pixar's RenderMan interface
which is a renderer independent API to communicate 3D data to
renderers which will finally produce a 2D image. There are already
several RenderMan compliant renderers freely available (they are not
part of the kit). The kit also includes some of the functionality from
the RenderMan Shading Language which enables you to create procedural
models or textures from within Python.

Even though the kit focuses on RenderMan, the new types or the Shading
Language functionality can also be used for other rendering mechanism
such as OpenGL or other renderers such as POV-Ray.

The kit should run on any platform where Python (and a C/C++ compiler)
is available. Binary packages are available for Windows and Debian.


What's new?
-----------

The new release fixes a crash that could occur with the Python 2.2
binary package on Windows. The problem was actually a bug in Pyrex and
occurred during a garbage collection cycle after a vector has been
unpacked.
Apart from that, there are a few small bug fixes in the ri and cgtypes
module (see changelog).
Debian users can now also download a binary package (thanks to Brett
Hartshorn!).


For more information, visit:

http://cgkit.sourceforge.net


- Matthias -



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 16:31:34 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:31:34 -0600
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<1gl97cx.69p760iugqaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ck1kn7$q80$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> I love iPython, but the (hypothetical) moment iPython or any other tool
> starts holding back the development of the _language_ is the moment I
> turn into a deadly enemy of the tool in question, _whatever_ it may be.
> We have enough tails-wagging-dogs in the real world, we don't need more
> of that in the fairytale world of the Snake...!-)

I've certainly always held the opinion that ipython should in _all_ respects
adapt to whatever directions the language moves in.  In fact, I've in the past
rejected proposals for changing ipython in directions which would make it
incompatible with python's defaults, because I feel that ipython should always
be a python _tool_, hence subservient to the language.

So I'm NOT advocating 'holding back the development of the language' because of
ipython (or any other tool, for that matter), as I ultimately share your
position.  I simply think that Python is more than a syntactic specification,
it's also a set of tools, libraries and community, and I think much of what
makes python attractive is the combined power of all those things.  Just like
the needs of one community have in the past been taken into account when
developing the language (extended slicing originated for Numeric), I hope this
will remain true in the future.

I would NEVER try to hold back Python's development (I'm already considered a
python nut evangelist by many :). However, I would certainly voice my concerns
in the hope that a good compromise could be reached, which could satisfy the
language while harming other tools (like ipython in this case) as little as
possible.  

And for the record, yes, the ?!-at-the-end-only would qualify as such a
minimal-impact compromise in my book :)  The ! would be a non-issue, and users
could type a space before the ?.  And on ?foo, I get to use my time machine
today :)

In [1]: x=1

In [2]: ?x
Type:           int
Base Class:     <type 'int'>
String Form:    1
Namespace:      Interactive
Docstring:
    int(x[, base]) -> integer

...

Note that I still don't _like_ the ?!-in-names, but that's a different matter,
since now we're just talking about personal taste :)

Best,

f


From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Wed Oct 27 05:36:09 2004
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:36:09 +0100
Subject: printing HTML or PDF from Python
References: <417E6E55.7070707@donnal.net>
Message-ID: <opsgivmjh113dtg9@dhcp-230-2e99.gatwick.eur.slb.com>

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:33:41 -0500, Donnal Walter <donnal at donnal.net>  
wrote:

> We want to be able to print HTML or PDF files to a given printer from  
> Python in a kind of batch mode (without opening a preview window or  
> printer dialog for each file). The printer is on a network, but for  
> testing purposes I have connected it to my desktop via LPT1. I can  
> easily print a text file from Python using:
>
> os.system("copy some.txt LPT1")
>

[snip]

Donnal,

I would first convert my HTML into PDF (thus solving one problem)
a quick google turned up a few 'free' (as in I didn't check how free)
html2pdf tools.

Now we only have one problem, PDF.  Printing PDF can be done I believe
using Ghostscript tools (GSView/gsprint on windows, gv / gs on *nix)

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/

Cheers,
Martin.




From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Oct 13 08:41:14 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:41:14 +0200
Subject: locks
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4835.1097670275.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckj7pa$eei$01$1@news.t-online.com>

> I think you mean the GIL (Global Interpreter Lock).  PIL is the
> excellent Python Imaging Library.

I certainly did - to less caffeine in system yet...


> Nope.  It doesn't do this.  For access to items such as integers you are
> probably fine, but for things like lists, dictionaries, class
> attributes, etc, you're on your own.  The GIL only ensures that two
> threads won't be executing Python bytecode simultaneously.  It locks the
> Python *interpreter*, not your program or data structures.
<snip>
> True, you won't get segfaults.  However, you may very well get a
> traceback or mangled data.

I thougth that e.g. list manipulations are bytecodes, thus atomic.
So far, I never ran into serious problems giving me garbage lists or
stacktraces.

Nevertheless, I of course used queues and locked access to certain
datastructures when critical sections had to be entered - but in
comparision to java, I never had to ask for a specially thread-hardened
variant of a collection.

 
> Threading in Python is pretty easy, but certainly not *that* easy.  And
> just to be certain, importing PIL won't help you here either <wink>.

Unless you plan to do some nifty image manipulation work multithreaded....
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 13 07:43:30 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:43:30 +0200
Subject: quoting %
References: <863c0ihmz7.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
Message-ID: <ckj4d2$2fj$1@sea.gmane.org>

Matthias Teege wrote:

> I need a string like this "foo '%value%'" for a database query but
> print "'%%s%'"%value gives me TypeError: not all arguments converted
> during string formatting. How does I quote the "%" sign in this case?

use "%%".

for the full story, see:

    http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq-strings.html

</F> 





From nick at craig-wood.com  Thu Oct  7 03:30:11 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 07:30:11 GMT
Subject: 2 Newbie questions.
References: <Tl49d.425544$8_6.322047@attbi_s04>
Message-ID: <slrncm9qbu.sfd.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Len Sumnler <pcslen at comcast.net> wrote:
>  I am running SuSe Linux ver. 9.0. I have written the famous "Hello 
>  World" program and want to run it as an executable.  I have searched the 
>  net and performed chmod +x mypython.py and added as the first line of my 
>  program #!/usr/bin/env python.  When I try to run the program as follows
>  $ mypython.py I get the error message of,
>  "bash: mypython.py: command not found".  What am i doing wrong.

The current directory isn't in your PATH.  I don't suggest you add it
- its not there for good security reasons.  Instead invoke your
program like this...

./mypython.py

>  Second, I am looking for a good online tutorial for some one who knows 
>  other programming languages assembler, cobol, etc any suggestions.

I've recently finished (the book version) of
http://www.diveintopython.org/ - excellent for experienced
programmers!

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 21 11:14:38 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:14:38 -0400
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
In-Reply-To: <cl8fe5$43h$1@news.imp.ch>
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch> <2tpq8vF20rf1rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cl8fe5$43h$1@news.imp.ch>
Message-ID: <cl8jo7$rm$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Daniel Mueller wrote:
> hmm i'll have to rephrase my question... i KNOW that the file changes 
> every 10 seconds... easiest would be i just give you the source code ;)
> the program is a nice little windows which displays ACPI information 
> about battery status and stuff like that. the program is working just 
> fine. 

What makes you think there is any way to detect the file changes
or read only the changes from files in the /proc file system?

Looking briefly at /proc on my own (non-laptop, so no acpi folder)
machine, I see that the dates as shown by "ls -l" or os.stat()
are *always* the current time... they increment second-by-second
as I run os.stat() repeatedly.

 > but i want the performance tweak it...

Why?  Do you have any evidence that you have a performance problem
related to reading the data from these pseudo-files?  (I'm guessing
that you think they are real files on your hard drive, but even
if that were the case, you probably haven't measured the access
or read times to prove that you actually *have* a problem.)

/proc is a *virtual* file system, so reading data from it is
about as fast as transferring bytes around in memory (to a
first approximation, anyway).  Measure it!

If you don't have evidence of poor performance, you are probably
doing "premature optimization".

-Peter


From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Thu Oct  7 11:30:59 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:30:59 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <ck3ls6$62e$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<ck3ls6$62e$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ck3nfj$ddo$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp>

Aahz wrote:
> One critical reason for the GIL is to support CPython's ability to call
> random C libraries with little effort.  Too many C libraries are not
> thread-safe, let alone thread-hot.  Forcing libraries that wish to
> participate in threading to use Python's GIL-release mechanism is the
> only safe approach.

Most (or many) wrappers around C libs are generated by SWIG, boost, SIP 
and what not. It can't be that difficult to generate code instead so 
that entering extension code acquires a lock end leaving the code 
releases it. And writing an extension by hand is verbose enough, having 
to add the locking code wouldn't really multiply the effort.

One could even add a flag to definitions of native methods that this 
method is reentrant. If this flag isn't set, then the interpreter would 
acquire and release the lock.

Daniel


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Wed Oct  6 18:51:43 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:51:43 +0100
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
In-Reply-To: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <ck1su3$or5$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Erik Johnson <ej <at> wellkeeper wrote:

> You might be surprised to find out that all the Bar objects end up
> sharing the same foo_d dictionary.

I wasn't <wink> but I can see why one might not expect this. There was a 
thread on this phenomenon this very week...

> I struggled with that for a
> while and eventually reasoned that the {} in the argument list to my
> constructor is executed at the time of class definition, and is essentially
> a reference to an instantiated dictionary object and therefor there is a
> little empty dictionary sitting in memory somewhere prior to me ever
> instantiating a Bar object.  New Bar objects constructed without providing
> their own foo_d end up sharing that one.  I think this makes sense enough,
> now  (if I'm missing something, speak up).

That's exactly right.

>     So, one work-around is to do this:
> 
> #=======================================================================
> class Bar:
> 
>     def __init__(self, foo_d=None)
>         if foo_d:
>             self.foo_d = foo_d
>         else:
>             self.foo_d = {}

To be honest that is almost exactly what I would do. Except that I would 
use "if foo_d is not None" because the truth value of an empty container 
(such as {}) is False. So if someone specified an empty dict subclass or 
a list as the foo_d, you would end up creating a new empty dict instead 
for self.foo_d.

Maybe that is a little far-fetched, but you seem to want to start with 
good habits (which is very commendable), and using "if x is not None" 
when you want to test whether it is None or not is a good idea. :)

 > Is there a better way to do this sort of thing, or is that
> perfectly reasonable code?

Looks reasonable enough to me.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Oct  6 18:52:16 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:52:16 -0400
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <cuWdnZpWo5C76vncRVn-rQ@rogers.com>


"Erik Johnson wellkeeper com>" <ej <atdot> wrote in message 
news:416472df at nntp.zianet.com...
>
>    I am rather new to Python and still learning the finer points. I wanted
> to have a class which has a member dictionary of other class instances, a
> constructor that would initiate that dict with an empty dict if you didn't
> provide one, and a member function to stick more other classes into that
> dictionary.
>
> I wrote something akin to this:
>
> #! /usr/bin/python
>
> #=======================================================================
> class Bar:
>
>    def __init__(self, foo_d={}):
>        self.foo_d = foo_d
>
>    def add_foo(self, foo):
>        self.foo_d[foo.key] = foo
> #=======================================================================

I think that a more "pythonic" way to implement your class is with a change 
in the definition of your __init__:
    def __init__(self, foo_d=dict({})):
This will create a separate copy for each one of your class instances 
instead of the common object that you are creating in the definition of the 
function.

Dan 




From spam at nospam.org  Thu Oct 28 15:05:56 2004
From: spam at nospam.org (Erik Johnson)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:05:56 -0600
Subject: failed to install PyOpengl-2.0.1.08 on Mandrake 10.0
References: <mailman.5615.1098979984.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41814198$1@nntp.zianet.com>

Well.... you will have to take this with a big grain of salt, because it has
been some while since I did much work with gcc, but it appears to me that
the command line cited...

> gcc -pthread -shared
> build/temp.linux-i686-2.3/src/interface/GLUT.o
> -L/usr/lib -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/X11/lib
> -L/usr/X11R6/lib -Lbuild/temp.linux-i686-2.3 -lGL
> -lX11 -lXext -lGLU -lglut -lXi -lXmu -linterface_util
> -o build/lib.linux-i686-2.3/OpenGL/GLUT.so
> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lglut
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

    is trying to build one of the objects that's probably part of the glut
library itself. The linker complains it can't find -lglut.  '-lglut' tells
the linker to link up with the glut library, found in one of directories
specified with the -L flag. But if it's trying to build that library now,
you shouldn't be trying to link with it.

    So, here's two things to try:

    1) Assuming GLUT.o is actually part of the glut library that's trying to
be built here, find the equivalent line in the makefile and remove '-lglut'.
If it compiles without complaint, things should be OK. If there are lots of
errors about unresolved links, that implies to me GLUT.o is not actually
part of the glut library. Put the -lglut back in and try the next step:

    2) Figure out where the glut library actually lives on your system. (It
appears to be /usr/lib/libglut.so.3.7.1 on my SuSE 8.2 system.) If that
location is not one of the directories already specified with your -L flags,
add it. If it is already in that path, then I guess I don't know what the
problem is.

So... there's a couple of things to try. No promises, but I know I hate it
when I am just simply stuck with nothing left to try.

Good luck.
-ej




"danu kusmana" <danu_milis at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.5615.1098979984.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Im using Python 2.3.4 and Mandrake linux 10.0. I don't
> know whats wrong when Im trying to install the
> PyOpengl-2.0.1.08. I got the message:
>
> gcc -pthread -shared
> build/temp.linux-i686-2.3/src/interface/GLUT.o
> -L/usr/lib -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/X11/lib
> -L/usr/X11R6/lib -Lbuild/temp.linux-i686-2.3 -lGL
> -lX11 -lXext -lGLU -lglut -lXi -lXmu -linterface_util
> -o build/lib.linux-i686-2.3/OpenGL/GLUT.so
> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lglut
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
>
> I suspect it have something to do with the glut. Then
> I tried to install glut-3.6 but problem arise again It
> require libMesaGLU.so.3. I install the Mesa-6.2
> everything ok. But the libMesaGLU still doesnt exist.
> In the website it state that the packet doesnt include
> the libMesaGLU anymore. but instead they use another
> packed oss-openglu-20000925..rpm. But the packet
> failed also to install becuse it require
> libstdc++-libc6-1-1.so.2. I updated the gcc from 3.3.2
> to 3.4.2 but the library required still doenst exist.
>
> What should I do to fix all this problems????
>
> Thanx
>
> danu
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Oct 26 16:54:30 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:54:30 -0500
Subject: Yet Another Command Line Parser
In-Reply-To: <5c4tn0latkspkrrlj8r66qj7h35qbpies0@4ax.com>
References: <5c4tn0latkspkrrlj8r66qj7h35qbpies0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <417EB986.3080104@colorstudy.com>

Manlio Perillo wrote:
> Regards.
> In the standard library there are two modules for command line
> parsing: optparse and getopt.
> In the Python Cookbook there is another simple method for parsing,
> using a docstring.
> 
> However sometimes (actually, in all my small scripts) one has a simple
> function whose arguments are choosen on the command line.
> 
> For this reason I have written a simple module, optlist, that parses
> the command line as it was a function's argument list.
> 
> It is more simple to post an example:
> 
> 
> import optlist
> 
> 
> def main(a, b, *args, **kwargs):
>     print 'a =', a
>     print 'b =', b
> 
>     print 'args:', args
>     print 'kwargs:', kwargs
> 
> optlist.call(main)
> 
> 
> And on the shell:
> shell: script.py 10, 20, 100, x=1

I think it would be better if this was called like
script 10 20 100 --x=1

With something like:

def parse_args(args):
     kw = {}
     pos = []
     for arg in args:
         if arg.startswith('--') and '=' in arg:
             name, value = arg.split('=', 1)
             kw[name] = value
         else:
             pos.append(arg)
     return pos, kw

def call(func, args=None):
     if args is None:
         args = sys.argv[1:]
     pos, kw = parse_args(args)
     func(*pos, **kw)


This isn't exactly what you want, since you want Python expressions 
(e.g., 10 instead of '10').  But adding expressions (using eval) should 
be easy.  Or, you can be more restrictive, and thus safer:

def coerce(arg_value):
     try:
         return int(arg_value)
     except TypeError:
         pass
     try:
         return float(arg_value)
     except TypeError:
         pass
     return arg_value

Or a little less restrictive, allowing for dictionaries and lists, but 
still falling back on strings:

def coerce(arg_value):
     # as above for int and float
     if arg_value[0] in ('[', '{'):
         return eval(arg_value)
     return arg_value


-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct  5 14:38:59 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:38:59 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> A retired philosophy professor who taught himself programming when he 
> was twelve.  I've been programming as a hobby since and was interested 
> in Python a few years ago, played around with it, and didn't pick it 
> back up until now.  What else you want to know?  I've got a cat, a dog, 
> and a lovely, highly intelligent wife who teaches history.  No kids, and 
> no plans to have any.


Terribly interesting, but well nigh impossible to corroborate.

Take for example if I were to claim that I were a graduate student in
computer science theory at the University of California, Irvine.  A
little bit of investigation would lead you to discover that I am
likely the person I claim to be (header examination, university search,
etc.).


On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be a magic incantation for
google that leads one to your wife's web page in the first few pages of
results (if she is a professor, she probably has one), nor any way to
corroborate your story in any reasonable fashion, based on information
you have posted so far.

What I would like (if you would do me this favor), is a reasonable
amount of evidence to prove you are who you claim you are.  This has no
reason other than to allow me to feel less of an ass for responding to
your 40+ questions last evening. You don't need to post this to the
entire python-list.  If you satisfy me, I'll even post to python-list
that I believe you are who you claim you are.

Would you do me this favor?
 - Josiah



From siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk  Fri Oct 22 10:28:41 2004
From: siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk (Sion Arrowsmith)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 15:28:41 +0100 (BST)
Subject: MySQLdb and MySQL 4.1 server :(
References: <34z0t1sfx8wa$.lcn7b3aki5sg.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <rAA*gzKxq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

In article <34z0t1sfx8wa$.lcn7b3aki5sg.dlg at 40tude.net>, JZ  <z at b.com> wrote:
>MySQLdb 1.0 cannot connect to MySQL 4.1 server when the user has non-empty
>password :(

This is hardly surpising, as "MySQL-4.1 is not yet supported, and
probably won't be until MySQLdb-1.3 or 2.0." (from the README, which
also says "If you fail to read all of this document and ask questions
that are already answered, I reserve the right to verbally abuse you.")

That said, it *does* work if you build MySQLdb from source (it needs a
minor tweak to _mysql.c if you've got a really recent 4.1, and will
probably need some adjustment to setup.py). MySQL passwords changed
between 4.0 and 4.1.0 and again in 4.1.1 in rather incompatible ways,
so a client binary expecting 4.0 doesn't stand much chance with a 4.1
server.

-- 
\S -- siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk -- http://www.chaos.org.uk/~sion/
  ___  |  "Frankly I have no feelings towards penguins one way or the other"
  \X/  |    -- Arthur C. Clarke
   her nu become? se bera eadward ofdun hl?ddre heafdes b?ce bump bump bump


From jianqiz at bigpond.com  Tue Oct 12 10:14:57 2004
From: jianqiz at bigpond.com (Michael Zhang)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:14:57 GMT
Subject: Multithreaded tkinter GUI application exception handling
Message-ID: <BFRad.23545$5O5.22396@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

My project uses Python-2.3.4 + Tkinter + PIL-1.1.4 to retrieve images 
from server and display those images.

I created a thread (also a separate toplevel window) for displaying 
images and another thread for recording the frame rates (using a 
progress bar for visulization). The whole application worked very well 
once it received image data from the socket.

The problem is when I tried to close that display window (click on the 
standard "X" button on the right-upper corner), I got this exception:

--------
Exception in thread Thread-1:
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/threading.py", line 436, in __bootstrap
     self.run()
   File "realtime.py", line 188, in run
     UI(self.master)
   File "realtime.py", line 238, in __init__
     self.canvas.create_image(0, 0, image=self.image, anchor=NW)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2060, in 
create_image
     return self._create('image', args, kw)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2049, in _create
     return getint(self.tk.call(
TclError: invalid command name ".1080883980.1080884908"
---------

Then after I closed the main windows, I got another exception:

---------
Exception in thread Thread-2:
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/threading.py", line 436, in __bootstrap
     self.run()
   File "realtime.py", line 198, in run
     self.bar.updateProgress(i)
   File "/home/michael/usyd/soft3700/py/realtime/progressbar.py", line 
73, in updateProgress
     self.update()
   File "/home/michael/usyd/soft3700/py/realtime/progressbar.py", line 
91, in update
     float(value) / self.max * self.width, self.height)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2039, in coords
     self.tk.splitlist(
TclError: invalid command name 
".1080881420.connectionPane.1080883148.1080883340"
---------

Why is the "TclError"? How can I handle those exceptions and exit the 
applicaton gracefully?

Could someone help me out about those thread stuff? Thanks!

Michael





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 21 04:34:58 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:34:58 +0200
Subject: String changing on the fly
References: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com>
	<1glzcvj.5uv1lg12ypgy2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aef9ef3d.0410202338.6c091ff2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gm04ht.e3wqjt19zaabaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Eli Daniel <elie at flashmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> > As others have said, you need to pass do_action the dictionary of the
> > local variables of the function (or module's body) from which you're
> > calling it: do_action('it cost $T dollars', vars()).  If you don't pass
> > this argument explicitly it IS possible for do_action to recover it by
> > black magic, but that would be very bad practice.
> > 
> > Apart from this, your best bet might be to upgrade to 2.4 (the current
> > beta appears quite good), which offers exactly this functionality in the
> > string.Template class.  Otherwise, see how string.py does it (in the 2.4
> > standard library) and copy the solution.  But reusing the solution
> > directly is much preferable, and for that you need 2.4.
   ...
> Thank you all.

You're welcome.

> I've written a solution which sends that vars on every function call
> as suggested (do_action('it cost $T dollars', vars()) which works
> great.

Good!

> I've spent some time trying to avoid sending the vars (before I saw
> the previous post) with no much success (I've tried all kind of
> imports which resulted in some weird issues for a new guy like me).
> I'll try the beta, if it solves the problem that's great and if not
> the above solution is good as well.

It doesn't, per se, allow you to avoid passing vars() -- it just supples
in class string.Template the functionality for $-interpolation.

To avoid passing vars() you need black magic inside function do_action:
it must root around in the call-stack and find out the local variables
of its caller.  That's not impossible, but it's not considered Python
style.  "Explicit is better than implicit": when you pass vars() it's
obvious that the function is going to use the value of some of your
local variables, and you also gain some flexibility by being able to
pass another dictionary; when you pass nothing, it's pretty deep and
dark and mysterious what IS going to happen.

If you feel you must allow calling do_action without vars(), while not
recommended and not good Python style, you can.  Python shares 4.5 out
of 5 principles that define the Spirit of C according to the intro of
C's official standard, after all, and the first two are:
1. trust the programmer
2. don't prevent the programmer from doing what needs to be done.

so, here's the 2.4 code one might use for that (NOT recommended...):

import string, inspect

def do_action(message, thevars=None)
    if thevars is None:
        thevars = inspect.currentframe(1).f_locals
    print string.Template(message) % thevars


The black magic is the call to inspect.currentframe, which is very
clearly documented (at an interactive prompt, do import inspect and then
help(inspect.currentframe)) with:
'''
This function should be used for internal and specialized purposes only.
'''

Well, maybe not THAT clear, but hopefully scary enough.  The concept is:
if you know what you're doing, we trust you, and we don't prevent you
from doing what you judge NEEDS to be done, even though it requires
black magic that reaches behind the scenes of the execution model,
plucking a frame out of the call-stack and accessing its implementation
detail 'f_locals' attribute -- "on your head be it";-).

Just be sure it NEEDS to be done -- be sure it's a PROBLEM to do things
cleanly, explicitly, simply, and in the obvious way -- Python strongly
urges you to rethink your framing of the issue, but doesn't force you.


Alex


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 16 17:38:17 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:38:17 -0700
Subject: Python Library Reference is tutorial, not reference
In-Reply-To: <opsfy32lax6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>
References: <opsfy32lax6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <20041016141457.09EA.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


[Snip statements regarding Python's documentation not being great]

Having used (read and written) pydoc/javadoc-style documentation before,
I am personally not a big fan of them.  I much prefer the conversational
and sometimes tutorial style of standard Python documentation, to an
arbitrary API reference.  Sure, everyone writes documentation
differently, but you cannot expect one person to write all of the
documention.

With that said, I find reading the source to be very educational as to
how other people do things, but prefer to read /real/ source rather than
merely the interfaces to a particular module or class.  If one had
access to a reasonably decent editor (Idle has this feature), one could
open the desired module very quickly and easily; perhaps even faster
than looking up the documentation.  If one's editor had a heirarchical
listing of classes, functions, etc. (Idle also has this feature, though
it could be a bit better), the opening would produce pydoc-style
documentation on the fly.

Also considering that sites with pydoc documentation exist, would it be
sufficient for you if there were a link from every module page to its
equivalent pydoc reference?


 - Josiah



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 25 09:14:00 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:14:00 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <_aadnTCr7PWKYeHcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>

kartik wrote:
> there seems to be a serious problem with allowing numbers to grow in a
> nearly unbounded manner, as int/long unification does: it hides bugs.
[snip]
> PEP 237 says, "It will give new Python programmers [...] one less
> thing to learn [...]". i feel this is not so important as the quality
> of code a programmer writes once he does learn the language.

Do you feel strongly enough about the quality of your code to write
automated tests for it?  Or are you just hoping that one tiny class
of potential bugs will be caught for you by this feature of the
language?

I'm not sure what you're asking, because even the exposure of
latent bugs which you are describing can happen only when you
*run* the code.  Are you planning to have your users report
that there are bugs when the program crashes in a code path
which you didn't get around to testing manually?

-Peter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 07:17:43 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:17:43 +0200
Subject: interface boilerplate
References: <mailman.5090.1098044946.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glushu.4o1jab1gxj2czN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
   ...
> The only problem I've seen so far is that the name of the function in
> pydoc string is 'wrapper', and I want it to appear as "plot".  I tried
> setting the __name__ attribute, but it is read only.

Yes, a 2.3 problem, solved in 2.4.

> Any suggestions on how to best define these matlab interface functions
> by automatically wrapping the Axes instance functions?  I'd like to
> support python2.2 so python2.2 compliant solutions especially welcome.

Then I guess upgrading to 2.4 is out of the question.

To make a function just like another but with a different name:

def changed_name_function(f, newname):
    import new
    return new.function(f.func_code, f.func_globals, newname,
                        f.func_defaults, f.func_closure)

I believe this should work in 2.2 as well (not tested).


Alex



From zathras at thwackety.com  Sat Oct 16 09:11:44 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:11:44 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
In-Reply-To: <ckqsfv$q69$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410161352450.12653-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004, Jarek Zgoda wrote:

> pitkali <pitkali at NOSPAMinteria.pl> pisze:
>
> >>>> Windows versions are named, royalty-free, commercial licenses.
> >>>> [... long, tortuous explanation ...] Hallo, any lawyers around
> >>>> here?
> >>>
> >>> As he said, "way too messy"!  ;)
> >>
> >> I am not sure if Detlev can pose such exceptions... Well,
> >> Qt-and-around is not an easy shoot. ;)
> >
> > He hold the copyright (with Phil Thompson). He is the licensor. He can
> > do all he wants.
>
> Don't think it's possible to claim "software is GPL but you cann't
> distribute it". Either don't pose such restriction or use another
> license.

You can[1] (if you're the copyright owner), but it's akin to saying:
    * "you may only redistribute this at a height of 10m whilst also being
      at a height of 20m"

Because that's self conflicting you can't comply with that license.
(Since you can't comply that means you revert to standard copyright,
and therefore can't redistribute at all)

Similarly, if a license says "you may not add any restrictions to the GPL,
and you may not do X", then you can recieve it, but because you have to
comply with the second half, you can't comply with the first half, which
means it's not really GPL. (Indeed I think this is part of the reason for
that clause)

   [1] Whether it's wise to do so, is a different question. (Also it begs
       the question to be asked as to whether claiming something that
       isn't true is wise)

The alternative you *can* do (which Qt does) is to distribute two
different versions - one is GPL, one is not. If you can transform the
former version into something compatible with the latter without seeing
the latter, then there's nothing anyone can do to stop you - since the
former (GPL one) allows this.

Sun do this sort of thing with OpenOffice/Star Office, and various others
do similar.

I'm not actually clear that PyQT or Eric3 actually distribute different
versions of the code for windows, but that's because I'm not interested
in looking at windows versions of Qt in any shape or form. (Even though
I like Qt under unix/linux) Personally I'm also not interested in
circumventing anyone's intended licensing. There's enough other stuff
that could be used instead.



Michael
--
I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice...



From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Oct 27 14:21:30 2004
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:21:30 +0100
Subject: Please help - get average
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5559.1098886745.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5559.1098886745.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417FE72A.2070503@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Frohnhofer, James wrote:
>>Robin Becker wrote
>>...... interestingly the standard algorithms for means/deviations are 
>>numerically poor. As an example
>>
>> >>> (1.e30+1-1.0e30)/3
>>0.0
>>
>>Where we have total loss of information in one of the terms.
>>
>>
>>There are better algorithms involving recursion,
>>
>>eg
>>
>>    mu[n] = (data[n]+(n-1)*mu[n-1])/n
>>The error in the existing estimate, mu[n-1], gets multiplied by the 
>>number (n-1)/n which is less than one (ie the errors are damped).
>>
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I believe this.  It's been a while since I studied this, but I
> think I remember maintaining precision at the Frankenstein level:
> "Multiplication bad.  Addition good."  Keep the multiplications and divisions
> to a minimum, and try to do them at the end.
> 
> 
>>However, in the case of widely differing magnitudes I think 
>>you need to 
>>accumulate the sums specially.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, its not even that hard:
> 
>  >>> data=[1.e30,1.,-1.e30]
>  >>> sum(data)/len(data)
>  0.0
>  >>> data.sort(lambda x,y:-cmp(abs(x),abs(y)))
>  >>> data
>  [-1e+030, 1e+030, 1.0]
>  >>> sum(data)/len(data)  #Assuming sum works the way I think it should . . .
>  0.33333333333333331
> 
> But using the recursive 
>  >>> def mu(lst):
>          n = len(lst)
>          if n==1:
>              return lst[0]
>          else:
>              return (lst[0] + ((n-1)*mu(lst[1:])))/n
> 
>  >>> data=[1.e30,1.,-1.e30]
>  >>> mu(data)
>  0.0
>  >>> data.sort(lambda x,y:-cmp(abs(x),abs(y)))
>  >>> mu(data)
>  0.0
> 
> it seems we lose even the ability to maintain the precision by sorting on the
> magnitude. 

not so, the sort needs to be reverse absolute for the simplistic analysis to work
and even then I believe it may not suffice.

eg
 >>> def mu(data):
... 	estimate = 0
... 	for i,v in enumerate(data):
... 		estimate = (v+i*estimate)/float(i+1)
... 	return estimate
...
 >>> data=[1.e30,1.,-1.e30]
 >>> data.sort(lambda x,y: -cmp(abs(x),abs(y)))
 >>> data
[1e+030, -1e+030, 1.0]
 >>> mu(data)
0.33333333333333331

Of course we now have an O(nLog(n)) average rather than O(n) so the numericists 
will blow a gasket.
-- 
Robin Becker


From bennie at rotzjes.nl  Thu Oct 28 03:36:25 2004
From: bennie at rotzjes.nl (Bennie)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:36:25 +0200
Subject: how come .insert() don't work
In-Reply-To: <qnkacu7qzbh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
References: <41801753$0$62043$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<41801852$0$189$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<41803447$0$41713$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<qnkacu7qzbh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <4180a179$0$76514$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>


Hi,

This is a chunck out of my program:
--------------------------------------------------
from Tkinter import *

class App:
	def __init__(self, master):
		frame = Frame(master)
		frame.pack()
		
		self.menubar = Menu(root)
		self.html = Menu(self.menubar, tearoff=0)
		self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.tekst_in('p'))
	#	self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.tekst_a)
		self.menubar.add_cascade(label="html", menu=self.html)
		
		root.config(menu=self.menubar)
		
		self.tekst = Text()
		self.tekst.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=YES)
	
	def tekst_in(self, tag):
		tekst_tag={'p': '\t\t<p>\n\n\t\t</p>\n', 'br': '<br />'}
		self.tekst.insert(INSERT, tekst_tag[tag])

	# This works
	#def tekst_a(self):
	#	self.tekst.insert(INSERT, "<p> </p>")
		

if __name__ == '__main__':
	root = Tk()
	app = App(root)
	root.mainloop()


--------------------------------------------------


The error is:
-------------------------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "test.py", line 30, in ?
     app = App(root)
   File "test.py", line 10, in __init__
     self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.tekst_in('p'))
   File "test.py", line 21, in tekst_in
     self.tekst.insert(INSERT, tekst_tag[tag])
AttributeError: App instance has no attribute 'tekst'
------------------------------------------------------
hope this is enough info.


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Oct 25 15:59:06 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:59:06 -0000
Subject: String changing on the fly
References: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com>
	<1glzcvj.5uv1lg12ypgy2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aef9ef3d.0410202338.6c091ff2@posting.google.com>
	<1gm04ht.e3wqjt19zaabaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <slrncnqmo9.qn7.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <1gm04ht.e3wqjt19zaabaN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Well, maybe not THAT clear, but hopefully scary enough.  The concept is:
> if you know what you're doing, we trust you, and we don't prevent you
> from doing what you judge NEEDS to be done, even though it requires
> black magic that reaches behind the scenes of the execution model,
> plucking a frame out of the call-stack and accessing its implementation
> detail 'f_locals' attribute -- "on your head be it";-).

This type of stack manipulation is much more common in Tcl, where it is used
to accomplish tasks as simple as passing an array to a function! The "black
magic" procedures in Tcl are "upvar" and "uplevel". Their use is discouraged
in most cases, as one might expect in any language, but they are useful in
implementing control structures.

One particularly nice implementation of string interpolation, done by
Ka-Ping Yee, is available here:

http://lfw.org/python/
(search for "string interpolation for Python")

It "hacks the stack" to find the calling environment's variables, and allows
many neat tricks like the following:

from Itpl import printpl
printpl("Here is a $string.")
printpl("Here is a $module.member.")
printpl("Here is an $object.member.")
printpl("Here is a $functioncall(with, arguments).")
printpl("Here is an ${arbitrary + expression}.")
printpl("Here is an $array[3] member.")
printpl("Here is a $dictionary['member'].")

I have used this successfully in a homebrew templating system for several
websites, and found that it offers just the right compromise between
convenience and flexibility. YMMV. ;)

Another, similar use of this "black magic" that I've done is to write a
function that works like PHP's "compact":

http://php.net/compact

If you've got a lot of dictionary construction and deconstruction to do,
this simple trick can save a lot of {'redundant': redundant,
'mapping': mapping} between locals and dictionaries.

(but of course it still feels dirty)

-- 
 .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
        "talking about music is like dancing about architecture."


From dd55 at cornell.edu  Thu Oct 14 11:03:28 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:03:28 -0400
Subject: question on list comprehensions
References: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.4949.1097766029.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckm4et$cql$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <ckm4gm$cql$2@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

Darren Dale wrote:

> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
>> Darren Dale wrote:
>> 
>>> I need to replace the following loop with a list comprehension:
>>>
>>> res=[0]
>>> for i in arange(10000):
>>>     res[0]=res[0]+i
>> 
>> why?
>> 
>> </F>
> 
> I explained why in the original post...


or I guess I just implied it. The speedup is critical.


From jerf at jerf.org  Mon Oct 11 19:45:44 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:45:44 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.10.16.48.24.930075@jerf.org>
	<4169982d.4238722751@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.10.19.48.01.604089@jerf.org>
	<4169c7ad.4250882926@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.11.00.12.36.26295@jerf.org>
	<416a0afc$0$5686$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.11.15.12.33.931181@jerf.org>
	<416ae09b$0$5691$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.11.17.49.58.650715@jerf.org>
	<416b0856$0$5687$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.11.20.06.12.648644@jerf.org>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:25:26 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> OK, if you meant signed-magnitude, you should have said that. ;)
> 
> AFAICT, the only people that use signed-magnitude for _integer_
> quantities [IEEE FP representations are signed-magnitude] are

I never said they existed :-)




From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Wed Oct 20 09:23:48 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:23:48 +0200
Subject: Can Python run on the Internet
In-Reply-To: <20041020125028.7D6F.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
References: <cl58ko$2l0$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
	<20041020125028.7D6F.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <417666e2$0$23232$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Maciej Dziardziel wrote:
> John Mowbray wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'd like to use Python in my classes, but some students do not have a
>>pc. 
> 
> Python can run on any many operating systems.

I didn't know that 'pc' was an OS !-)

I guess that the point is that some students does not have any computer 
at all.

>>They do have access to Internet-connected systems, though.
(snip)
> 
>>but a browser would be ideal. 
> 
> 
> You would have to write web application that passes code from webpage to
> python.
> 

Zope may be of some help here. It wont really replace the Python 
top-level, but...



From beliavsky at aol.com  Sat Oct 30 14:20:31 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 11:20:31 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3064b51d.0410260928.1873a20d@posting.google.com>
	<1gme4mk.1rlz70v1cswu9zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3064b51d.0410291739.35cb9de6@posting.google.com>
	<1gmgplx.4jmtifat3uheN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0410301020.43ca9bb2@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gmgplx.4jmtifat3uheN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> <beliavsky at aol.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > Were you using Fortran 77? Most of this version's limitations (rigid
> > source form, no abstract data types, no dynamic memory allocation, no
> > compile-time checking of procedure calls) were fixed in Fortran 90.
> 
> Although, during the '90s, I did lead several pilot projects to evaluate
> alternative language possibilities for my employer of the time, I wasn't
> the one tasked with the Fortran 90 evaluation pilot projects -- if I
> recall correctly, the CTO himself, a staunch Fortran lover, rolled his
> sleeves up and did the technical-leading himself for those; I was only
> involved in the mop-up/assessment post-project phases.  By the time F90
> compilers were mature, we were comparing against C++, and F90 came up
> short.  Not sure what you mean by saying F77 had "rigid source form":
> Fortran IV did, but F77 allowed leeway.

Fortran 90 was the first standard supporting a free source format,
where characters in the first 6 columns do NOT have special
significance and lines can be longer than 72 columns. For backwards
compatibility F90 and later versions also support fixed source format.
A file should contain either fixed or free source format code. Maybe
you were using F77 compilers with the free format extension.

<SNIP>
 
> The advantage of going to Python, rather than C++, for a C programmer,
> is that, while in Python he's going to find very different syntax, and
> (like Java) different semantics of assignment statements, in Python he's
> actually going to be operating under a _philosophy_ that's very close to
> the one that made (and still makes!) C such a roaring success: trust the
> programmer, don't stop the programmer from needing what needs to be
> done, offer only one way to perform an operation, etc -- in fact, 4.5
> out of the 5 points that the ISO C Standard identifies as "The Spirit of
> C" (the point about speed/portability tradeoffs is the only one that
> Python only meets about halfway).  People who detest that philosophy
> will of course detest Python as much as they detested (and still detest)
> C.  

In some important ways Python does NOT trust the programmer, to his
benefit.
Trying to access an out-of-bound list element or using an
uninitialized variable causes an immediate error.

> And yet Python proves that you can get a 6:1 language level ratio
> (according to Capers Jones; much more, according to Pythonistas' vast
> collective experience) _without_ abandoning simplicity and flexibility,
> indeed _increasing_ those characteristics, and dynamicity too.

I think "dynamism" is the word you are looking for :).

> and libraries in a huge variety of other languages, is crucial.  You
> mentioned C++ and F95: I would not be surprised if the best _portable_
> (across compilers and platforms) way of using both C++ and F95 in the
> same program would be exactly to interface each of them to Python!-)

The Fortran 2003 standard mandates "interoperability" with C --
Fortran calling C in a standardized way. Although it will be some time
before full F2003 compilers exist, F95 vendors are adding high-demand
features F2003 features such as C interoperability.


From noone at here.com  Sun Oct  3 11:44:16 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:44:16 +0100
Subject: append to  items  depending on prior item
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cjp6km$dsp$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi All,

Of course that should be

next Item + (choice('a,b,c'))





From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sat Oct 30 05:43:52 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 02:43:52 -0700
Subject: [wx] Simple image editor
In-Reply-To: <clvmtr$8vl$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
References: <clvmtr$8vl$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <1099129432.7272.103.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 11:28 +0200, Michele Petrazzo wrote:
> I want to create a simple image editor (with wxPython) for my application.
> Now I'm able to zoom, draw with a pen, insert a text into the loaded 
> image, and undo changes (for this I reload the image and redraw all the 
> lines/text, but not the last.)
> 
> My problem is how can I move the texts/lines that are insert into Image, 
> after placed? How the image editors (like GIMP) are able to move the 
> objects? Please don't tell me to read the GIMP's source :).

First of all, if you are talking about bitmaps, then there are no such
things as "objects" in that sense, there is only a big bunch of bits.
What programs like the Gimp do is keep several (possibly hundreds) of
separate bitmaps for each of the objects and then composite them
together to give you a unified view of your "bitmap".  So the first
thing you'll need is a framework for managing all those objects.  This
should be fairly straightforward in Python.  Second, you can use the
built-in wxPython image handling tools or take a look at something like
PIL for doing the compositing. 



Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 08:05:17 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:05:17 +0200
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<%5E9d.7075$UP1.6600@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4167128b$0$538$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<YuG9d.7186$UP1.961@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1glgsb2.18pqhx5cl99c3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<s9z4ql14j87.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <1glhvmy.31alo1iyyas3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> wrote:
   ...
> >     not str1 ^ not str2
> >     not str1 != not str2
> 
> These give syntax errors, actually.  I wouldn't have expected that
> either, though :)

Yep, you need parentheses, as in (not str1) &c.

> >     str1 != str2 and (str1+str2) == (str2+str1)
> 
> Counter example:
> >>> str1 = "x"; str2 = "xx"

Yep, excellent counterexample, thanks.  So let's try instead:

  (str1+str2==str2!=str1) or (str2+str1==str1!=str2)

I _do_ really want something based on concatenation equaling one of the
strings iff the other's empty...


Alex


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct  6 03:25:57 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:25:57 -0700
Subject: [severely off topic now] New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <20041005152540.ECF2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <41631830.2000401@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005152540.ECF2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041006002040.ED00.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

<snip my own innane drivel>

As happens when I have spent too much time working, reading emails, and
generally...ah to hell with it, there is no excuse for me being an
arsehole, other than me being an arsehole.

My apologies to python-list, the associated comp.lang.python, and
Richard Blackwood.  I'll try to keep it more on-topic next time.

Time for bed.
 - Josiah



From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Oct 22 13:58:50 2004
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:58:50 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python and generic programming
In-Reply-To: <2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410222157580.19873@rnd.onego.ru>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Oliver Fromme wrote:

>Type checking at compile time does _not_ necessarily require
>static typing.
>
>For a counter example, look at O'Caml.  It is a dynamically
>typed functional language (using type inference, pattern
>matchingetc.) with compile-time type checking.
>
>If there was a programming language with Python-like syntax
>and library, dynamically typed, and type-checked at compile-
>time, I'd run over to it immediately.  :-)

Efficiently compiled Python is my dream too. Probably it's a matter of a
decade for such language to appear.

>Best regards
>   Oliver
>
>

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct 16 22:22:57 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 02:22:57 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <XNgcd.1933$B34.419@trndny02>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02> <ckr3j8$9fq$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<XNgcd.1933$B34.419@trndny02>
Message-ID: <5Ikcd.5517$6k2.1064@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Chris S. wrote:
> The problem is I want to associate some data with my pattern, as in a 
> dictionary. Basically, my application consists of a number of 
> conditions, represented as strings with wildcards. Associated to each 
> condition is arbitrary data explaining "what I must do".
   ...
> However, I'm uncertain about the efficiency of this approach. I'd like 
> to use regexps, but how would I associate data with each pattern?

One way is with groups.  Make each pattern into a regexp
pattern then concatenate them as
   (pat1)|(pat2)|(pat3)| ... |(patN)

Do the match and find which group has the non-None value.

You may need to tack a "$" on the end of string (in which
case remember to enclose everything in a () so the $ doesn't
affect only the last pattern).

One things to worry about is you can only have 99 groups
in a pattern.

Here's example code.


import re

config_data = [
  ("abc#e#", "Reactor meltdown imminent"),
  ("ab##", "Antimatter containment field breach"),
  ("b####f", "Coffee too strong"),
  ]

as_regexps = ["(%s)" % pattern.replace("#", ".")
                  for (pattern, text) in config_data]

full_regexp = "|".join(as_regexps) + "$"
pat = re.compile(full_regexp)


input_data = [
     "abadb",
     "abcdef",
     "zxc",
     "abcq",
     "b1234f",
     ]

for text in input_data:
     m = pat.match(text)
     if not m:
         print "%s?  That's okay." % (text,)
     else:
         for i, val in enumerate(m.groups()):
             if val is not None:
                print "%s?  We've got a %r warning!" % (text, 
config_data[i][1],)



Here's the output I got when I ran it


abadb?  We've got a 'Antimatter containment field breach' warning!
abcdef?  We've got a 'Reactor meltdown imminent' warning!
zxc?  That's okay.
abcq?  We've got a 'Antimatter containment field breach' warning!
b1234f?  We've got a 'Coffee too strong' warning!


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From donnal at donnal.net  Tue Oct 26 11:33:41 2004
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:33:41 -0500
Subject: printing HTML or PDF from Python
Message-ID: <417E6E55.7070707@donnal.net>

We want to be able to print HTML or PDF files to a given printer from 
Python in a kind of batch mode (without opening a preview window or 
printer dialog for each file). The printer is on a network, but for 
testing purposes I have connected it to my desktop via LPT1. I can 
easily print a text file from Python using:

os.system("copy some.txt LPT1")

And as expected, using this function with "some.html" simply prints the 
html source. (But I tried it anyway. :-) I presume that one would need 
to go through a Web browser of some kind to print the formatted document 
(using CSS, BTW), but we don't want the user to see the browser window, 
or be required to click on the Print button, etc. Is there a way to do 
this from a Python script? We are currently deployed on Windows, but 
would like to keep the application cross-platform if possible. We have 
Mozilla installed, for example, if that would be of use, but I've 
searched the Mozilla mailing list archives without seeing anything about 
printing via Mozilla without actually opening a browser window.

The same more or less goes for PDF files. We have Acrobat Reader 
installed, but I can't see how to print a PDF file from Python via AR 
without opening the file inside the reader and manually printing each 
one. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Regards,
Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  8 10:23:54 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:23:54 -0400
Subject: Python script that generates blob files
In-Reply-To: <1097189229.883950.253450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1097189229.883950.253450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <trGdnUdku99nP_vcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>

Sean Carey wrote:
> I am wondering if anyone knows of a python script or any other script
> that will generate random files with random sizes that I can specify.

Presumably using the random module would help?

length = random.randint(0, 1000)
filename = 'test'

f = open(filename, 'wb')
i = 0
while i < length:
     f.write(chr(random.randint(0, 255)))
f.close()

Slight variations could simplify this...  use getopt or optparse
to retrieve command line arguments if you want to specify different
filenames or length ranges etc.

-Peter


From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 26 11:16:27 2004
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:16:27 +0100
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 25)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5509.1098800693.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5509.1098800693.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aStfd.40083$Z14.14531@news.indigo.ie>

[Cameron Laird]
 >     Andreas Kostyrka summarizes the design judgment behind
 >     Python's locking.
 > 
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list%40python.org

I've got to say that I found Luis P Caamano's contribution to that 
thread far more enlightening. It gives the best historical perspective 
on the GIL that I've ever read.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-October/245412.html

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/contact/alan


From bgabriel at cloudthunder.com  Fri Oct  1 17:45:28 2004
From: bgabriel at cloudthunder.com (Bishara Gabriel)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:45:28 -0400
Subject: Social Analysis and Modeling for Python
In-Reply-To: <a8623416.0410011046.5c2638cd@posting.google.com>
References: <415AD6A4.7000400@cloudthunder.com>	<1096493975.1238.45.camel@emilio>	<mailman.4108.1096499054.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<a8623416.0410011046.5c2638cd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <415DCFF8.8040104@cloudthunder.com>

Corey Coughlin wrote:

>Actually, back in school, I worked for a sociology professor doing a
>human population simulator, where we had all these people objects and
>a set of functions that updated their attributes as time went on, but
>we were forced to do it in C to have in run on the campus
>supercomputer, so it wasn't what you'd call object oriented.  I can
>see how using Python would make the modeling aspects a lot simpler. 
>So, to sum, sounds cool, hope you have a lot of sucess with it.
>
>  
>
C???  My, that isn't even C++.  That must have been a real pain (mind 
stretcher) I imagine.  What is your area of specialty?

Thanks for the encouragement.  We also are hoping to have a lot of success!


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Oct  5 01:58:21 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 01:58:21 -0400
Subject: Miscellaneous personal prejudices (was: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL!
	- weekly Python news and links (Oct 4))
References: <cjsh6t$m6u$1@lairds.us> <36i932-lr5.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <1tudnWqDWMKcpf_cRVn-qg@rogers.com>

My question is:

"What do I have to say to get into the QOTW?"
  Dan Perl, on his own personal prejudices

"Ville Vainio" <python-url at phaseit.net> wrote in message 
news:cjsh6t$m6u$1 at lairds.us...
> QOTW:  "...then we get a signal through, then various miracles occur, and
> the conclusion is, 'You mean it only takes thirteen lines of code to do
> that?  Our software folks said it's not possible.'
>    Cameron Laird, on his typical experience with industrial automation 
> projects
>
> "In fact what you'd really like is a 'resumption' object created by 
> raising
> the exception, that you can pass control to at any time, sort of like
> yielding from a generator.  Maybe you're getting deja vu now, since this 
> is
> basically what Stackless Python continuations were."
>    Paul Rubin, on the idea of resumable exceptions


I couldn't resist. 




From sean.carey at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 22:14:03 2004
From: sean.carey at gmail.com (Sean  Carey)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 19:14:03 -0700
Subject: Python script that generates blob files
In-Reply-To: <4165cd7b$0$36860$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <1097189229.883950.253450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<4165cd7b$0$36860$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1097201643.631225.291990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

hey
thanks for the reply. I think I can make this work the way I need it
too.

Cheers

Sean



From d+pylist at nospamplease.trit.org  Wed Oct 20 03:22:19 2004
From: d+pylist at nospamplease.trit.org (Dima Dorfman)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:22:19 +0000
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <864d370904101907342fb4bfab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
	<20041019012337.GA13634@trit.org>
	<864d370904101907342fb4bfab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041020072217.GB14203@trit.org>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:23:37 +0000, Dima Dorfman wrote:
> > A while ago I implemented this:
> > 
> >   yield *other
> 
> Just a clarification. You _implemented_ it as a patch to Python, or
> using some clever trick that I'm not aware of? Or did you just write a
> specification?

As an [incomplete] patch against CPython


From jonathan at gennick.com  Mon Oct 18 17:00:45 2004
From: jonathan at gennick.com (Jonathan Gennick)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:00:45 -0400
Subject: Luther Blisset
Message-ID: <9jb8n014advbvs5n0li6lo1a0d4cedbcsp@4ax.com>

I'm trying to reach one Luther Blisset in conjunction with a recipe we
want to use in the second edition of the Python Cookbook. The address
we have for him, which does not work anymore, is:

Luthor Blisset <situ at tioni.st>

If anyone knows Luthor and can help me locate him, I'd much appreciate
it.

Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
http://Gennick.com 


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 23 10:58:14 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:58:14 -0400
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
 exception
In-Reply-To: <41794fe3.493395655@news.oz.net>
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
	<cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<2e37dc1.0410201242.9bca574@posting.google.com>
	<ROXdd.8976$SW3.2862@fed1read01>
	<2e37dc1.0410212312.4268147d@posting.google.com>
	<PA6ed.16837$jd.15866@lakeread04> <41794fe3.493395655@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <0pued.13733$SW3.11371@fed1read01>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:52:31 -0400, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Vinay Sajip wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<ROXdd.8976$SW3.2862 at fed1read01>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>But how much simpler
>>>>
>>>>logging.want("%(string)s and the %(number)d dwarves",
>>>>                string="Snow White", number=7)
[...]
> 
> 
> Jumping into unknown wider context here, but (as you know, I'm sure)
> as of recent versions you can easily pass a dict arg using keywords:
> 
>  >>> def foo(*args,**kw): print args, kw
>  ...
>  >>> foo('here:', dict(string="Snow White", number=7),'<-is a dict', this='is a kwarg')
>  ('here:', {'number': 7, 'string': 'Snow White'}, '<-is a dict') {'this': 'is a kwarg'}
>  ^__args tuple_________________________________________________^ ^___kw arg___________^
> 
> Less confusing perhaps, the dict arg isolated:
> 
>   >>> dict(string="Snow White", number=7)
>   {'number': 7, 'string': 'Snow White'}
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

That strikes me as an acceptable compromise.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From agarbutt at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 16:11:41 2004
From: agarbutt at gmail.com (agarbutt at gmail.com)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 13:11:41 -0700
Subject: Python control of desktop properties
In-Reply-To: <416c8404$1_3@alt.athenanews.com>
References: <416c8404$1_3@alt.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <1097784701.010326.182870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

To do this on windows you need to import ctypes (which you may need to
download, http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/) and win32con
(which you should have already but if not you can get it from
https://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/).  to change th wall paper
use:

from ctypes import *
import win32con

windll.user32.SystemParametersInfoA(SPI_SETDESKWALLPAPER, 0, r'<path to
your bitmap>', SPIF_SENDWININICHANGE)

for further reference on SystemParametersInfoA goto:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/sysinfo/base/systemparametersinfo.asp

Hope this helps

Andy
Mediocre Person wrote:
> Hello, all.
>
> I'm teaching Python for the first time to some high school students,
and
> it's going well--Tomorrow's lesson: I'm going to show them how to use
a
> list comprehension to simplify a task.
>
> One of my students is interested in using Python to control his
> (Windows) desktop, and wants to write a program to change the desktop

> background or wallpaper. I told him I'd look into this, but I've had
to
> admit defeat.
>
> Can someone point me in the right direction, possibly post the
simplest
> Python program that can accomplish this. I understand this won't be
> portable. At school, we use Win98SE; the student in question is using

> XPHome at home, and I typically use Gentoo Linux/KDE 3.3. If there
were
> a single solution that would address all three environments, I'd
be... 
> well, shocked.
> 
> Merci beaucoup,
> 
> Nick.



From NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it  Fri Oct  1 07:40:42 2004
From: NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:40:42 GMT
Subject: getrecursiondepth
References: <27eal09cb6ggho5gbstgkbmvgillnova08@4ax.com>
	<cj3rd9$i9j$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<qebbl0l43c891b21udregn2pvj3phbfp90@4ax.com>
	<yMn5d.9974$gG4.9921@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<lf1dl0tqo6kui5gi2qmhgdqq0qdqfeqei0@4ax.com>
	<6fD5d.10550$gG4.6048@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<lhifl0969k5s8c87b9cg2pqrbe3in9oiv3@4ax.com>
	<Igg6d.12242$gG4.6109@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<bnfol0tf2q7e5d48p3pccs19c3ns6m6nme@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <of3ql0t8760ug3ql6k8k58gliddu5logo4@4ax.com>

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:59:04 GMT, Manlio Perillo
<NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it> wrote:

>On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:26:16 GMT, Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com>
>wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>And here is an example:
>
>>>> def foo(n = 0):
>    if firstlevel_call():
>	    pystate.rescale()
>
>    #print 'n = %s, recursion depth = %s' % (n,
>pystate.getrecursiondepth())
>    if n == 5: return
>    foo(n + 1)
>
>
>
>>>> foo()
>n = 0, recursion depth = 0
>n = 1, recursion depth = 1
>n = 2, recursion depth = 2
>n = 3, recursion depth = 3
>n = 4, recursion depth = 4
>n = 5, recursion depth = 5
>
>

Actually this can be done without using getrecursiondepth:

>>> def foo2(n = 0):
       if pystate.firstlevel_call():
	   foo2.recursiondepth = 0
       else:
           foo2.recursiondepth += 1
	    
       #print 'n = %s, recursion depth = %s' % (n,
foo2.recursiondepth)
       if n == 5: return
       foo2(n + 1)


I have timed the two versions
(Python 2.3.3 (#51, Dec 18 2003, 20:22:39) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32)

timeit.py -s "from time_pystate import foo" "foo()"
10000 loops, best of 3: 21.5 usec per loop

timeit.py -s "from time_pystate import foo2" "foo2()"
10000 loops, best of 3: 26.8 usec per loop



Regards   Manlio Perillo


From nomail at no.way  Fri Oct 29 13:15:45 2004
From: nomail at no.way (Bats)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:15:45 +0200
Subject: Writing a Python font viewer/manager
References: <clrkae$9uq$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<20041028211454.2A23.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <clttmh$9p3$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Maciej Dziardziel had this to say:
> Perhaps take a look at gfontview - not python app, but may show you how to
> access fonts.
Thanks - I will look at it. Would like to do my own anyway, but it'll be
interesting ;) 

-- 
Bats
~..~
(I can only post on weekends and rare times during the week.)



From neil.benn at gmail.com  Sun Oct 24 14:59:48 2004
From: neil.benn at gmail.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:59:48 +0000
Subject: MP3s, M4As and all that jazz
Message-ID: <e3d042c8041024115915940fb8@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

          Does anyone know of a python module that can be used to
convert MP3s to M4A.  The reason is that iTunes ripped everything to
M4As (all 450 of my CDS) and M4As don't work in my Creative Zen
jukebox (I'm not a fully signed up member to the cult of Steve
Jobs!!).  The google searches are too polluted by ogg converters and I
can't find an MP3 one.

    Any tips greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Neil


From hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl  Mon Oct 25 07:20:55 2004
From: hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl (Albert Hofkamp)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:20:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Interesting coding idea
References: <2tvup4F24iddjU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrncnpocn.mc.hat@se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl>

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:54:55 -0300, Bruno R. Dias <bruno at octantis.com.br> wrote:
> Perhaps it would be interesting to program a virtual machine simulating 
> an ancient computer (such as the pdp-7). Then, it would be rather 
> interesting to code for it (porting gcc to it maybe?). I think it would 
> be fun to play with the long-forgotten art of coding in machine language.

If you want to have fun coding in machine language, why not see whether
you can squeeze Python into a 68H05 (or something close to that number)?

That is a popular micro controller that can be programmed in BASIC.
Obviously, if it could be programmed in Python, it would be much easier
to use :-)


Albert
-- 
Unlike popular belief, the .doc format is not an open publically available format.


From amk at amk.ca  Sat Oct 30 07:46:32 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 06:46:32 -0500
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <HNedne3QcamF4h7cRVn-3g@speakeasy.net>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:18:30 +0200, 
	Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
> Is Python taking a similar step (-> Python 3) some time in the near future?

The list of features for Python 3000 is described in PEP 3000, 
appropriately enough:

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-3000.html

Most of the suggested changes remove redundancy, such as removing
now-unneeded built-in functions and language features.

--amk


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Mon Oct 18 14:29:41 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:29:41 +0200
Subject: unsigned char array -> buffer
References: <cl0pj4$pj9$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4174260d$0$28793$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Bonsoir !

Hi !




Attention, risque de probl?me (confusion) avec les cha?nes ? z?ro terminal.

Attention, risk of problem (confusion) with the string with zero terminal.




*sorry for my bad english*




@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau







From wcarus at comcast.net  Sun Oct 17 23:01:58 2004
From: wcarus at comcast.net (Win Carus)
Date: 17 Oct 2004 20:01:58 -0700
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02>
Message-ID: <fc91898a.0410171901.209b360b@posting.google.com>

"Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote in message news:<dB5cd.387$B34.355 at trndny02>...
> I have a number of strings, containing wildcards (e.g. 'abc#e#' where # 
> is anything), which I want to match with a test string (e.g 'abcdef'). 
> What would be the best way for me to store my strings so lookup is as 
> fast as possible?
Regular expressions are probably not the simplest or most
straight-forward option here.

A rather simpler and more straight-forward approach is (a) pre-compute
all the possible strings (i.e., interpolate all possible wildcard
values) along with their associated values; and (b) use a dictionary.
Pre-computation in your case is simple because you only have
single-character wildcards. This has four benefits: it uses a standard
and highly optimized native Python data structure (the dictionary);
it's very fast; it's very simple to update or modify keys and values
("cargo"); and it identifies pattern collisions (i.e, patterns that
have two or more actions associated with them).

On the other hand, if the number of pre-computed strings is "too
large" and there is a lot of prefix and/or suffix similarity in the
patterns, you could consider using an automaton, trie, or a DAG
(directed acyclic graph). Any string-matching automaton or trie will
do automatic prefix pattern compression and will allow you to attach
arbitrary data to the matching state. If there is considerable suffix
similarity, you could also consider a DAG since it ties together
similar suffixes with identical cargo.

BTW: There is no reason to use an Aho-Corasick automaton for this
problem since you don't need its
find-all-matches-in-a-given-sequence-in-a-single-pass functionality
(and that functionality adds substantial complexity to automaton
generation).


From ron.l.johnson at cox.net  Sat Oct 16 20:08:06 2004
From: ron.l.johnson at cox.net (Ron Johnson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:08:06 -0500
Subject: tarfile+bz2 and GnuPGInterface
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.17.00.08.05.523160@cox.net>

Hi,

Has anyone tried to integrate these 3 modules, so that I can
in-memory pipe the compressed tar stream into the encryptor,
and create the .tar.bz2.gpg file, without the intermediary
.tar.bz2 file?

Thanks


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct  6 21:33:25 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:33:25 -0700
Subject: logging question
In-Reply-To: <H4KdnaUM3fVIBfncRVn-sQ@wideopenwest.com>
References: <H4KdnaUM3fVIBfncRVn-sQ@wideopenwest.com>
Message-ID: <10m9743ahe15012@corp.supernews.com>

cmedcoff at hotmail.com wrote:

>I going through my first attempt at using the new logging facilities.  I
>would like to have log output go to both a file and std error and perhaps
>email as well.  Is there a handler that allows this sort of multiple outputs
>capture or will a custom handler have to be written?
>  
>

Each logger can have multiple handlers attached to it, with each of the 
handlers having their own threshold.  You can easily create a file 
handler, a stream (stdout) handler, and an email handler, all attached 
to your (root) logger.  Any logged messages should go to all of the 
attached handlers.  But if you, for example, give the email handler a 
threshold of 'critical', then 'info' and 'error' messages will go to the 
file and to stdout but won't get emailed.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From pcslen at comcast.net  Thu Oct  7 09:59:42 2004
From: pcslen at comcast.net (Len Sumnler)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:59:42 GMT
Subject: 2 Newbie questions.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4475.1097130092.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <Tl49d.425544$8_6.322047@attbi_s04>
	<mailman.4475.1097130092.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iZb9d.349247$Fg5.14220@attbi_s53>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> Len Sumnler <pcslen <at> comcast.net> writes:
> 
>>I have searched the net and performed chmod +x mypython.py and added as the 
>>first line of my program #!/usr/bin/env python.  When I try to run the 
>>program as follows $ mypython.py I get the error message of, "bash: 
>>mypython.py: command not found".  What am i doing wrong.
> 
> 
> Not really a Python question, but maybe I can help anyway.  A couple of things 
> to check:
> 
> 1) Does "/usr/bin/env python" work at the shell prompt?  If not you probably 
> don't have python on your path.
> 
> 2) If "/usr/bin/env python" does work for you from the shell, did you create 
> mypython.py on a Windows machine?  I've gotten these errors occasionally when 
> moving a script from a Windows box to a Unix box because the shell doesn't 
> like the \r's that Windows puts at the end of lines.  You could try using 
> dos2unix or a similar script to remove these.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
Hello Steve

	Thank you for the response I think this gives me a better understanding 
of whats going on and the response on the windows will help because I do 
plan to use python on both Linux and Windows machines.

Thanks
Len Sumnler


From adurdin at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 19:55:59 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:55:59 +1100
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
In-Reply-To: <416ec33b.258821255@news.oz.net>
References: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gljwcn.hu8qmfo9di8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416E15CA.9680C6A3@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gln4dz.eajljp1mwfqx3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416ec33b.258821255@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a04101416554b8251cc@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:27:13 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> 
> BTW, I experimented a little further with NotImplemented and the gt,cmp,coerce
> methods in a base class vs derived and it looks like the search prefers
> a base class gt or cmp over a derived version of the next alternative.

Isn't this just a side-effect of the attribute lookup order? When
looking for __gt__, python'll check the class, then go through the
base classes, and only return AttributeError if it's not found in the
class or any of its bases; after which it tries __cmp__ etc.

Am I understanding this correctly?


From theller at python.net  Wed Oct 27 14:43:56 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:43:56 +0200
Subject: 2.4beta1 distutil problem?
References: <mailman.5584.1098901125.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vfcw3ssz.fsf@python.net>

"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> writes:

> [Helmut Jarausch]
>
> #- Many thanks,
> #- hopefully it makes it into the CVS,
>
> Did you open a patch or bug in Sourceforge?
>
> .	Facundo
I'll do that.

Thomas


From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Tue Oct  5 19:04:37 2004
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:04:37 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41632885.8020400@zephyrfalcon.org>


[Josiah Carlson]
>> What I would like (if you would do me this favor), is a reasonable
>> amount of evidence to prove you are who you claim you are.  This has no
>> reason other than to allow me to feel less of an ass for responding to
>> your 40+ questions last evening. You don't need to post this to the
>> entire python-list.  If you satisfy me, I'll even post to python-list
>> that I believe you are who you claim you are.

We have background checks on c.l.py now?

Somebody asked a question.  OK, a lot of questions.  You were helpful and 
answered them, as opposed to many others who were suspicious and immediately 
assumed the "student trying to trick others into doing his homework" thing. 
There's really no reason to feel like an ass for trying to be helpful.

--
Hans Nowak (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 11:13:30 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:13:30 +0200
Subject: How to deal __getattr__
References: <505f13c04101522596d9ea6e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.5034.1097907251.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glswuz.11dg0kl12dwu49N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

limodou <limodou at gmail.com> wrote:

> I resolved the problem via defining __eq__method, just like:
> 
> >>> class A:
>       def __getattr__(self, name):
>               print name
>               return None
>       def __eq__(self, obj):
>               return id(self) == id(obj)
> 
>       
> >>> a=A()
> >>> b=A()
> >>> a==b
> False
> 
> I don't know whether it's the right solution, any ideas?

I think it's a weak solution: you can now do a==b, but if you try, say,
"print a" or the implicit repr(a) the interactive interpreter does if
you just type a at the prompt, boom, your problems are there again.

I suggest:
  1. class A(object):
this makes your class newstyle and the problem goes away.  Other ways to
make classes newstyle are to assign __metaclass__=type, etc.  Newstyle
classes are recommended for new code; classic classes exists just about
only to ensure backwards compatibility for old legacy code.

  2. change __getattr__:

def __getattr__(self, name):
    print name
    if name.startswith('__') and name.endswith('__'):
        raise AttributeError, name
    return None

I don't know why you want your class's instances to pretend to have
googolplex attributes, all set to None; it seems a bad idea to me.  But
it goes from bad to terrible when the pretense affects the special names
(mostly special methods) which Python looks for in order to let you
override the semantics of many kinds of operations.  In the newstyle
object model, things are almost livable with because there is no real
dynamic lookup on the instance for the specialnames (this was discussed
in depth in a recent thread); in the classic object model it's worse.

But I would recommend you do BOTH 1 and 2.  Even in the newstyle object
module, [2] would be advisable because SOME operation, not in the bowels
of Python's own interpreter, MIGHT still be looking for a special name
as some kind of indicator that the object is a special object.

Oh btw, if you don't like the verbosity of the 2nd line in the body of
the __getattr__ I suggest, feel free to make it tighter, e.g.:
    if name[:2]+name[-2:] == '_'*4:
        raise AttributeError, name
or whatever strikes your fancy; personally, I like the clarity and
readability of the startswith and endswith methods, but I understand
that some people prefer terness instead.


Alex


From wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de  Thu Oct  7 13:03:57 2004
From: wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:03:57 +0200
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<cjltj9$m79$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <yqzcg5fmqp2s.1gqp2x4izhd9l$.dlg@40tude.net>

Hello,

> I believe you are talking about the OPC version based 0n COM / DCOM ... 
> but there is in the meantime a SOAP based version called OPC XML defined.

You mean XML-DA, I guess?

Indeed, the standardisation of SOAP as a protocol for process control makes
Python an even more interesting candidate for such applications. Because
with Python, implementing SOAP clients and server should be ridiculously
more efficient concerning development effort compared to most lower-level
languages and ridiculously more efficient concerning runtime resource
requirements compared to Java.

Regards,

Wolfgang Keller


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 10:57:54 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:57:54 -0200
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:27:43 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > Yes, that's a good point, and it's one of the reasons I tend to prefer
> > the generator now. But anyway, it's just me, or does the 'chained
> > yield' look ugly to someone else? It may be just a question of getting
> > used to it, but nevertheless it's bugging me...
> 
> I'm not sure why it should look ugly to you.  What alternatives would
> you consider non-ugly for the common (in any generator) idiom:
>     for x in y: yield x
> ?
> 
> Perhaps some syntax hack such as a new statement keyword 'yieldall'
> where the above idiom could be expressed as
>     yieldall y
> ?  Or some other syntax hack such as 'yield<<y', or 'yield from y',
> ditto?  Personally, it would seem to me that such special syntax would
> be just one more bit of Python to learn, without substantial benefits,
> but that's because I see nothing ugly in today's idiom -- it does just
> what it says, plainly and unpretentiously...

Generally speaking, new keywords hardly solve any problem; in fact,
they create new problems of their own :-) In this case, my main gripe
is that the code doesn't read as naturally as the simple recursive
version, because of the double for loop. Its also strange because I
often have to stop and think, "what am I yielding now". For deeply
nested recursive cases there is also the feeling that the yield chain
may prove to be a performance dog, but that's should not be the main
point here anyway.

I have a strange idea in the back of my mind that tells me that a
possible solution would be to have any of the nested yields to
immediately return the result to the original caller. In this case, I
would write my code this way:

def walk(self):
   """generator-based recursive tree traversal"""
   yield child
   for child in childs:
        transfer child.walk()

It's quite weird -- a generator plus a direct flow-of-execution
transfer. It's not a goto, its not a co-routine... It requires a new
keyword ('transfer', in this case), which _is_ a real problem --
something like this can't be lightly proposed. In this case, it's just
a thought experiment, at this point; nothing serious, and far from a
proposal.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 12:09:39 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 16:09:39 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5432.1098719901.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417d2543$0$45533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-25, Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:

>> >> Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
>> >> in site-packages) in an application.
>> >
>> > I'd say everything that uses a GPL'd module is derived work
>> > and must also be GPL'd. It doesn't matter how you distribute
>> > it.
>>
>> So my application code must be GPL'd even if I never distribute
>> the module?  The mere act of inserting the line=20
>>
>> "import someGPLdmodule"
>>
>> Makes my _source_code_ a derived work, and therefore must be
>> GPL'd?  That just doesn't sound right.
>
> The GPL only applies if you distribute your work (outside your
> organization).

Yes, I realize that, and it has nothing to do with my question.

> It would probably be a smart move to just *ask* the author of
> the module if it's ok with him what you're planning to do.
> Only if the two of you disagree, then you need to worry about
> the legal questions.

I don't really want to have to come to individual agreements
with 5-10 different module authors.  That's why "standard"
licenses were invented.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Didn't I buy a 1951
                                  at               Packard from you last March
                               visi.com            in Cairo?


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 25 19:44:50 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:44:50 GMT
Subject: what are the most popular building and packaging tools for
	python ??
References: <5a309bd30410250301b26f445@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.5441.1098730188.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm8i53.1ghjcha10td2q4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <417d7513.765059317@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:13:35 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
>Neil Benn <neil.benn at arcor.de> wrote:
>   ...
>> start looking at reverse compilation.  This is something it it possible
>> to do in most 'bytecode' languages - other bytecode implementations 
>> (java, .NET) use 'obfuscators' that will make your code unreadable if
>> someone tries to decompile it.  To this end, I've not seen a python 
>> obfuscation tool
>
>Security by obscurity isn't.  If you can obfuscate, I can deobfuscate,
>if it's worth my while.  If you stick in license checking, I can patch
>it out.  It's not about one programmer being better than another: the
>attacker/cracker has the inevitable advantage.  If you ship all the code
>(even in object obfuscated form) you're toast.  I know: I've done that
>as part of my job for ten years of my life -- copy protection and the
>like WAS one part of my job as senior software consultant.  Thousands of
>hours wasted off my live.  Quoth the raven, nevermore.
>
>If your code contains really valuable trade secrets, my well-considered,
>experience-driven, professional suggestion, is to carefully remove just
>enough of the secret parts from the code you distribute, and make them
>available only as web-services or the equivalent from a host you
>control.  Whatever implementation language you use, the only code that
>will never be cracked is code that does NOT leave your control.  (well,
>that AND most code that's not really all that valuable, of course;-).
>
It's an interesting problem. Personally, I like open source, but I think
secret stuff should be possible, and I think it will be one of these days...

To anthropomorphize, code is a recipe for CPU behaviour analogous to the
way a cooking recipe is a recipe for cook behavior. If I send you a pgp-encrypted
(with your public key) recipe for a special dish, and you decrypt it in a secure
kitchen and do the cooking, and only serve results from the kitchen through a special
window for the waiters to take it to the end user, it would seem that the recipe
was secure, except for reverse engineering the product itself, and/or inferring what
may be inferred from externally observable parameters, such as overall timing, etc.

By analogy, I don't think it's a stretch to imagine a CPU core with a "secure kitchen"
in the form of an inaccessible instruction cache memory where decrypted (by the core
hardware) code/recipes may be stored for execution, and with private temporary data cooking
areas for use before results come out the window.

If a multi-core chip had a core dedicated as a "secure kitchen," I think it could appear
software-wise via a proxy dll that had the harware level protocol for passing in encrypted
code and then using it like a closed pure function, passing arguments and receiving results.

IOW, a python extension could nicely encapsulate access to securely encrypted code,
which it would get into the "secure kitchen" by using harware core-core communication
channels designed to support all this.

Using this kind of system, a customer would give you his CPU's public key and serial number,
and you would send him the encrypted code as part of your app package. No other CPU would
be able to run this code, since no other CPU would have the matching private key
to decrypt it. Yes, someone could send a bogus non-CPU public key that he has the private
key for, so there would have to be an authentication of CPU public keys in some kind of
registry, presumably generated by CPU manufacturer, mapping chip serial number to its
*public* key, available for checking at some authenticable site.

Maybe I am missing something, but this seems feasible to me.
One might feel distrustful of supplying a "kitchen" in one's house
for someone else to cook secretly in (poison? etc?), but having it encapsulated
in a core only accessed via argument passing and result retrieval through
actual hardware channels makes the secret code something like a pure function.
There can't be any side effects outside of the kitchen, except insofar as the
open side may be misled by data results.

I just hope this obvious overall concept has not been locked into
some patents for use in restricting freedom to create and share code
according to whatever arrangements people want to agree on to do that.

Instead, I would hope it would enhance the possibilites for making dependable
agreements, which should be good for everyone, so long as access to the
the secure kitchen core hardware functionality is open, and optional,
and does not have back doors.

(BTW, cores that specialize in audio or video streams are kind of obvious too).

>A web service can require any form of authentication and validation from
>its 'client' code, so you can implement any business model you like.  I
>heartily recommend (depending on the situation) subscription-based or
>per-use fees, over the old and crufty 'sell the bits' model that never
>really worked right (IMHO).  Be sure to pick _important_ parts of your
>code as those that are only available as webservices, not to make the
>webservices just a kind of license check, or else the webservice access
>WILL be hacked out just like any other license check (assuming your code
>IS valuable, of course).
It seems this is where we are, but give it another few years, and other
possibilites should become available. Or I'm dreaming ;-)

>
>You can distribute, depending on your exact circumstances, an "already
>somewhat useful" pure-client program, as long as the full functionality
>that customers will pay for is only accessible via the webservices.  You
>can even opensource the part you distribute, that may garner you useful
>feedback, more customers, etc.
>
>Of course, there _are_ still, today, applications which can't assume the
>net is available and must still offer full functionality no matter what.
>They're fewer and fewer, thanks be, as connectivity spreads -- games
>accrue multiplayer online-play features that players are eager for,
>financial programs require access to updated exchange rates or stock
>levels, and so on.  If you do need to sell applications which have full
>functionality without net access, you may as well resign yourself: you
>will never be truly safe, alas.
>
Yes, but if it takes sophisticated chip-destroying methods to retrieve a key,
that wouldn't happen unless it was a blockbuster application with a market worth
*a lot*. And the pirate would either have to distribute nonencrypted or set up
his own competing offer to encrypt his clear copy for specific CPUs, which
would seem pretty vulnerable legally. I.e., anyone trying to make money with
the pirated stuff would be an easy target for the lawyers, IWT. And how many
would destroy chips and have the equipment to extract a hidden key, and then
give away the decrypted result?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From lbates at syscononline.com  Wed Oct 27 10:55:34 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:55:34 -0500
Subject: Charting package?
In-Reply-To: <m3sm81hymt.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
References: <m3sm81hymt.fsf@prod01.jerrysievers.com>
Message-ID: <ksGdnWFbF4VCK-LcRVn-ig@comcast.com>

Jerry Sievers wrote:
> Dear Pythonists;
> 
> I would appreciate a recommendation of a open source package for
> charting numeric data such as stock market quotes etc.
> 
> Have such a thing in PHP called JPGraph which is very nice.
> Equivalent system in Python is desired.  Needn't be very complex as
> long as the basic charting types (lines, points, bars etc) are
> supported.
> 
> Thanks
> 
I've been happy with ReportLab's Graphics package.  One nice
feature is that it plugs in very well with there PDF generator
(also open source) when you are not using it to generate
stand-alone graphs.

http://www.reportlab.org

Larry Bates


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Oct 13 07:43:45 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:43:45 +0200
Subject: quoting %
References: <863c0ihmz7.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.13.11.43.45.778211@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:32:38 +0200 schrieb Matthias Teege:

> 
> Moin,
> 
> I need a string like this "foo '%value%'" for a database query but
> print "'%%s%'"%value gives me TypeError: not all arguments converted
> during string formatting. How does I quote the "%" sign in this case?

Hi,

%% --> %





From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct  7 12:22:42 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:22:42 -0400
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4488.1097144029.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>	<864d37090410070250210881d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4488.1097144029.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41656D52.5090903@holdenweb.com>

Tim Williams wrote:

> Can anyone suggest a way of capturing the output from smtplib's
> set_debuglevel  into a list or dictionary  (or anything else I can work
> with),   Preferably not to a file,  though if this is the only way,  then it
> would be a start
> 
> I have googled.
> 

All smtplib debug output is produced using print statements to standard 
ouput, so you could try creating a "file-like" object (such as a 
cStringIO) and temporarily replacing sys.stdout with it (saving 
sys.sdout and replacing it if other parts of your program need to use it).

If you need help to work out the details, post again.

regards
  Steeve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 27 17:43:54 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:43:54 +0200
Subject: using re.finditer()
References: <417fe88d$1@nntp.zianet.com> <418011f8$1@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <clp4pj$2n2$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Erik Johnson wrote:

> I am still left puzzled though, why this won't work:
> 
> pat = r'<td.*?>([\n.]*?)</td>'
> for match in re.finditer(pat, html):
> print?match.group(1)

>>> re.findall(r"[.\n]", "\nx\n")
['\n', '\n']
>>> re.findall(r"[.\n]", "\n.\n")
['\n', '.', '\n']

It seems a dot inside [] means a dot rather than "any character".

Peter


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Oct 11 00:57:27 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:57:27 -0700
Subject: End of file
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F5A@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Alex Martelli:
> Since an immediate instance of type object has no possible 
> use except as a unique, distinguishable placeholder,

Greg Ewing:
>That's not true -- you can also assign attributes to such
>an object and use it as a record. (It's not a common use,
>but it's a *possible* use!)

Bengt Richter:
> I originally thought that too, but (is this a 2.3.2 bug?):
>  >>> obj = object()
>  >>> obj.x = 1
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  AttributeError: 'object' object has no attribute 'x'
>8
> OTOH, making a thing to hang attributes on is a one liner 
> (though if you want more than one instance, class Record: pass;
> rec=Record() is probably better.

Or even:

class Record(object): pass
rec = Record()

Is there some reason people consistently don't use new-style classes? :(


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Oct 12 16:19:04 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:19:04 GMT
Subject: [twisted+wxPython] widgets do not work?
In-Reply-To: <ckh5u8$rod$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <20041012201904.1379.3682747.divmod.quotient.84@ohm>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:58:38 +0200, Taki Jeden <bartekgorny at interia.pl> wrote:
>
> Hi
> 
> Anybody used wxPython with twisted?
> 
> I started putting together a Twisted-based app with wx GUI, and the widgets
> just don't work - some controls do not show up etc. - at least on my
> system.
> 
> For example, if I just take the wxdemo.py shipped with Twisted, and add to
> it a static text, it doesn't show - while if I change 
>         reactor.registerWxApp(app)
>         reactor.run(0)
> into 
>         app.MainLoop(0)
> the text is there. What the heck is wrong with this? Or am I doing something
> wrong? Does the same work at yours?
> 
> Bartek
> 

  There are several known problems with Twisted/wxPython integration, but this doesn't sound like one of them.  Could you include your modified wxdemo.py?

  Jp


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 13:30:41 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:30:41 -0600
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Andr? N?ss <andre.naess at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> One thing I liked about Lisp was the ability to use the question mark
>> (and the exclamation mark) in function names. I found this
>> particularily useful when checking boolean properties of a object like
>> for example myObj.isContextSet. It just feels so much more natural to
>> write myObj.contextSet?
> 
> Even though I haven't used Lisp extensively, I agree with you.  Naming
> all predicates with a trailing question mark, and:
> 
>> I also found it neat that destructive operations were clearly marked
>> with !.
> 
> ops which modify their arguments with a trailing bang, IS a great idea
> for readability.  (I hope this shows that one's preferences are NOT

Well, there would go the two remaining special, useful chars in ipython:

In [3]: x=1

In [4]: x?
Type:           int
Base Class:     <type 'int'>
String Form:    1
Namespace:      Interactive
Docstring:
    int(x[, base]) -> integer

    Convert a string or number to an integer, if possible.  A floating point
    argument will be truncated towards zero (this does not include a string
    representation of a floating point number!)  When converting a string, use
    the optional base.  It is an error to supply a base when converting a
    non-string.


In [5]: !uname -a
Linux haar.colorado.edu 2.4.22-1.2199.nptl #1 Wed Aug 4 12:21:48 EDT 2004 i686
i686 i386 GNU/Linux


Since I just finished replacing all uses of @ for ipython's magic functions,
I'm really not too keen on this idea.  And given that there is a lot of
precedent for !cmd meaning 'escape to shell' in several environments (gnuplot,
matlab), and for foo? as 'info about foo' (Mathematica), I hope I'd have a
stronger case of opposing these changes if they ever came to Guido.  

I did NOT oppose the @decorator one strongly, as I felt that ipython could just
adapt if there was consensus on the benefit of @ for the language, and that
the loss to ipython was near-zero (just a few hours of my time changing code
and docs).  The change was made, and current CVS ipytho uses %magic instead,
which is fine.

But if something like this (!?) were to be seriously considered, I would most
definitely try to oppose it.  Granted, my opinion is just one amongst many. 
But the fact that ipython is proving to be a growingly popular tool for
interactive work in multiple contexts, and that this popularity is in no small
part due precisely to the utility of features like !cmd and foo?, would
hopefully give my humble opinion the weight of a larger community.

That, and the fact that in _my_ opinion, names-with-embedded-punctuation look
ugly :)

Best,

f


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct  7 07:04:00 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:04:00 -0400
Subject: handle a log file.
In-Reply-To: <cth7jq2pzyg.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
References: <cth7jq2pzyg.fsf@lcpxdf.wm.lc.ehu.es>
Message-ID: <DaKdnbQpTNU9v_jcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>

Zunbeltz Izaola wrote:
> I've a GUI program (wxPython) that comunicates with a machine with UDP
> sockets. Every sended socket is writted to file for inspection if
> there is problem. What ocurs is that sometimes the file grows to much
> (32Mb) and the program has problems to manage it. Is any way to
> control the size of the file?

Use the standard logging module.  It provides the capability for
an automatically "rotating" log file which will handle rolling
over and deleting/renaming the previous file automatically.

You may need to write your own formatter, depending on the
nature of your log entries...
-Peter


From nicolas at lehuen.com  Tue Oct 12 21:38:33 2004
From: nicolas at lehuen.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 03:38:33 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <ckhemc$qtb$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<416b9eed$0$11828$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<mailman.4742.1097573758.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416bd75f$0$10909$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
	<ckhemc$qtb$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <416C8719.2070004@lehuen.com>

Aahz wrote:
> BTW, Nicolas, it'd be nice if you did not post quoted-printable.  I'm
> leaving the crud in so you can see it.

I write non-ASCII emails, since I'm french (using accentuated characters 
and all that), what is the encoding you would suggest me to use ? AFAIK, 
quoted-printable is a standard encoding (though a poor one). The MUA I 
used may have chosed a bad encoding, since it was Outlook Express. At 
home, I use Thunderbird 0.8, tell me if you feel better with the 
encoding it uses.

> In article <416bd75f$0$10909$afc38c87 at news.easynet.fr>,
> Nicolas Lehuen <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote:
> 
>>Yeah I know this. My point was that when benchmarking single-threaded =
>>programs vs multithreaded ones, you have to choose the kind of program =
>>you use : CPU-intensive vs IO-intensive. On a single CPU machine, =
>>CPU-intensive program will always run better in a single-threaded model. =
>>But of course, if you have 2 procs and a nice threading model, you can =
>>even do 2 CPU-intensive tasks simultaneously, which Python cannot do if =
>>I've understood everything so far.
> 
> 
> Python itself cannot, but there's nothing preventing anyone from writing
> numeric extensions that release the GIL.

There is nothing preventing anyone from writing a new language from 
scratch, either. What I was suggesting was that we could try to make 
Python a more thread-friendly language, so that we could write more 
CPU-efficient code in the new context of multicore or multi-CPU machines 
  without having to revert to a low-level language like C.

If only I could tell the Python Interpreter 'OK, this bit of Python code 
is thread-safe, so you don't need to hold the GIL on it', maybe I could 
be more efficient, but as of today, this is a thing that can only be 
done in C, not in Python. Of course, being able to release the GIL from 
Python code is not a true solution. A true solution would be to get rid 
of the GIL itself.

Regards,

Nicolas


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 12:25:57 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:25:57 -0300
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4920.1097716237.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041014092536302bb0@mail.gmail.com>

On 14 Oct 2004 01:44:29 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> > This does not meant that other languages cant be used; it only
> > means that C is a natural choice.
> 
> I still don't see why.
> 
> > Of course, you can provide a C-like interface for a Python program
> > (for example). But a OS written in pure Python would make a much
> > better use of the language if it provides a Pythonic interface. I
> > believe we can agree on this point, dont you think?
> 
> Not really -- the interace between the kernel and user-space
> isn't particulary C-oriented.  IIRC on the x86 platform, you
> make a system call by loading values into registers and
> executing an interrupt instruction.  You can't even make a
> Linux system call on Linux using standard C.  You have to use
> assembly language wrappers that convert between the system call
> API and the C API.  It would be just as easy to make those
> assembly language wrappers convert to a Pascal or Python API.

Now I see your point. It remembers me a little bit about the
discussions between GNU/Stallman and Linux/Linus on what makes a OS.
The kernel is one thing, the OS is another beast. I still think that a
language such as Python can be used to write the OS -- in the sense
where the name Linux is usually called upon (even if technically
incorrect, as the GNU/Stallman camp would quickly point out); it
includes high level APIs, much above the low-level kernel calls . But
the kernel itself is the hard part for a high level language.

As for C being a natural choice as far as the kernel part is
concerned... it may be because it compiles to efficient code, or
because it facilitates integration with assembler, or because it can
efficiently uses registers... Who knows? But the main reason is
probably simple: it's because everyone is just used to it.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 15:15:21 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:15:21 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<cl0umu$kdm$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<cl0v8o$8a4$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<mailman.5126.1098122988.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl11jf$r9$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<mailman.5131.1098126770.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glvhih.mackqd12vhs62N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<20041018133211.0A4B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<8C8685E8-2199-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5182.1098207637.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glx9lf.1yxrkv519qs7tkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> > > I agree with most everything you have said, though consider the pointer
> > > vs. value of C to define the semantics of the passing.  That is, if you
> > > get a pointer in C, it is by reference.  If you don't get a pointer, it
> > > is by value.
> > 
> > I disagree: you get the value of the pointer.  If you assign to the
> > barename of the pointer, this has no effect on the caller.
> 
> [snip the remainder of the email]
> 
> Sounds good.  Now with the semantic arguments out of the way, is there a
> link where the equivalent of what was just said is available in the
> documentation?
> 
> If yes, great.  If not, perhaps what has been discussed should be
> slimmed down and inserted into the FAQ so that future generations don't
> need to rehash this conversation.

Sure, but it's a vain hope -- 2 out of 3 questions asked here ARE about
stuff well covered in the FAQ, anyway.


Alex


From aurora00 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 13:36:40 2004
From: aurora00 at gmail.com (aurora)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:36:40 -0700
Subject: reloading updated modules in long running server?
Message-ID: <opsfw9veq16yt6e7@news.cisco.com>

I am looking for a way for reloading updated modules in a long running  
server. I'm not too concerned about cascaded reload or objects already  
created. Just need to reload module xxx if the corresponding xxx.py is  
updated.

I found something useful in module.__file__. Would it work if I use it to  
generate filenames xxx.py xxx.pyc and then compare their mtime? I'm not  
too sure about the mechanism of generation of .pyc file. Would it be too  
system specific to reply on?


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Thu Oct  7 07:23:46 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:23:46 +0100
Subject: Python-Matlab extensions: Comparisons?
References: <uhu1m0t4euvekl61ilengepdhuettvmutr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <yfsfz4qai0t.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

Johannes Eble <skywalkerpackage at hotmail.com> writes:

> Hello Python community,
>
> I have looked for a Python extension to bring Python nearer to Matlab.

Scipy/ipython has already been suggested and I agree with that (I'd add emacs
to the mix); if you want to migrate you might also be interested in some stuff
I've written (will try to publish it later today; I'll be offline for a month
from end of this week, so I'd like to "flush" this stuff before):

- a high-level python-matlab interface (fairly stable, I think); you can use
  matlab functions more or less as if they were normal python functions
  (including viewing their doc with `help` and catching exceptions that occur
  in them)

- anyplot -- a uniform matlab-like plotting iterface to different backends (at
  the moment matlab via above bridge, scipy's xplt and matplotlib); this
  should make it easy to switch gradually (chances are it will still be some
  time before all of matlab's plotting functionality is available in
  matplotlib et al; also different backends are good at different things so
  the ability to switch without code change is useful)

- a matrix class that is largely sugar around Numeric arrays (and in principle
  also numarray), but unlike other such code around preserves compatiblity to
  Numeric arrays, whilst still offering some hack to write transposes and
  matrix multiplications etc. conviniently. It also does, inter alia, matlab
  style formatting.



All of them are fairly well documented and the first one seems fairly stable
(I've been using it for well over a year with little changes, after trying my
best to eliminate memory bugs); I also use the other two all the time, but
they are patchier, I think.

If you don't see any announcement on the newsgroup by saturday but are
interested feel free to bug me (if I don't get it out by the end of the
weekend, it's unlikely to happen)

'as

P.S. There are a couple of other conveniences someone with a matlab background
might be missing, e.g. it's convienient to save variables. Here is a simple
hack that I often find useful to save and load results from experiments,
especially in interactive sessions:

Here's an (untested) mock-example:

    >>> array1 = array([1, 2, 3]); array2=array([]), array3 = array([1])
    >>> saveVars('filename', 'array1 array2 array3')
    >>> del array1; del array2; del array3
    >>> loadVars('filename', 'array1 array2 array3')
    >>> array1
    array([1, 2, 3])


def loadVars(filename, ask=True, into=None, only=None):
    r"""Load variables pickled with `saveVars`.
    Parameters:
    
        - `ask`: If `True` then don't overwrite existing variables without
                 asking.
        - `only`: A list to limit the variables to or `None`.
        - `into`: The dictionary the variables should be loaded into (defaults
                   to global dictionary).
           """
    
    filename = os.path.expandvars(os.path.expanduser(filename))
    if into is None: into = awmstools.magicGlobals()
    varH = loadDict(filename)
    toUnpickle = only or varH.keys()
    alreadyDefined = filter(into.has_key, toUnpickle)
    if alreadyDefined and ask:
	print "The following vars already exist; overwrite (yes/NO)?\n",\
	      "\n".join(alreadyDefined)
	if raw_input() != "yes":
	    toUnpickle = without(toUnpickle, alreadyDefined)
    if not toUnpickle:
	print "nothing to unpickle"
	return None
    print "unpickling:\n",\
	  "\n".join(ipsort(list(toUnpickle)))
    for k in varH.keys():
        if k not in toUnpickle:
            del varH[k]
    into.update(varH)

def saveVars(filename, varNamesStr, outOf=None, **opts):
    r"""Pickle name and value of all those variables in `outOf` (default: all
    global variables (as seen from the caller)) that are named in
    `varNamesStr` into a file called `filename` (if no extension is given,
    '.bpickle' is appended). Overwrites file without asking, unless you
    specify `overwrite=0`. Load again with `loadVars`.

    Thus, to save the global variables ``bar``, ``foo`` and ``baz`` in the
    file 'savedVars' do::

      saveVars('savedVars', 'bar foo baz')

    """
    filename, varnames, outOf = __saveVarsHelper(
        filename, varNamesStr, outOf, **opts)
    print "pickling:\n", "\n".join(ipsort(varnames))
    try:
        f = None
	f = open(filename, "wb")
        
	pickle.dump(dict(zip(varnames, atIndices(outOf, varnames))),
                     f, 1) # UGH: pickle, unlike pickle doesn't accept bin=1
    finally:
        if f: f.close()

def loadDict(filename):
    """Return the variables pickled pickled into `filename` with `saveVars`
    as a dict."""
    filename = os.path.expandvars(os.path.expanduser(filename))    
    if not splitext(filename)[1]: filename += ".bpickle"
    f = None
    try:
        f = open(filename, "rb")
        varH = pickle.load(f)
    finally:
        if f: f.close()
    return varH

def __saveVarsHelper(filename, varNamesStr, outOf,extension='.bpickle',**opts):
    filename = os.path.expandvars(os.path.expanduser(filename))
    if outOf is None: outOf = awmstools.magicGlobals(2)
    if not varNamesStr or not isString(varNamesStr):
        raise ValueError, "varNamesStr must be a string!"
    varnames = varNamesStr.split()
    if not splitext(filename)[1]: filename += extension
    if opts.get("overwrite") == 0 and os.path.exists(filename):
	raise RuntimeError("File already exists")
    return filename, varnames, outOf

def atIndices(indexable, indices, default=__unique):
    r"""Return a list of items in `indexable` at positions `indices`.

    Examples:
    
    >>> atIndices([1,2,3], [1,1,0])
    [2, 2, 1]
    >>> atIndices([1,2,3], [1,1,0,4], 'default')
    [2, 2, 1, 'default']
    >>> atIndices({'a':3, 'b':0}, ['a'])
    [3]
    """
    if default is __unique:
        return [indexable[i] for i in indices]
    else:
        res = []
        for i in indices:
            try:
                res.append(indexable[i])
            except (IndexError, KeyError):
                res.append(default)
        return res


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Tue Oct 19 13:41:24 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 01:41:24 +0800
Subject: Python capability do like plugins ?
References: <cl02mu$qfk$1@netnews.hinet.net>
	<1glurfj.zi6798qu4p2fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cl2adu$apg$1@netnews.hinet.net>
	<1glwgve.20tqi2sdvlc0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cl3jjq$ga$1@netnews.hinet.net>

Thank you very much,help me understand it ^_^
Now,I only use it (simple soluation). if other better soluation when modify
it
"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> ???g???l???s?D
:1glwgve.20tqi2sdvlc0N%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> Leon <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> wrote:
>
> > Thanks.....
> > I use a simple method...
> >
> > sys.commands module --> get file list
> > re module --> filter file name and path
> > imp module --> load module
> > getattr() --> get varabiles
> >
> > because none dll for unix, I don't know how to use *.pyd
> > and how to make *.pyd from *.py
>
> Not sure what you mean by "because none dll for unix".  A *.pyd on
> Windows is a DLL (meant for Python extension); you cannot make it from a
> *.py, you make it from a *.c or the like.  Equivalent on different Unix
> variants are *.so, *.dynlib, and others yet.
>
>
> Alex




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 23 10:24:37 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:24:37 -0400
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5357.1098540970.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>	<QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5357.1098540970.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jtidnZlHj6049OfcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>

David Wilson wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> David Wilson wrote:
>> Is it enough to say that it is a good idea *for some people*, and
>> that you don't need to be convinced that it's a good idea for you,
>> or in general, for that to remain a fact?
> 
> In the context of the subject, we are discussing here a replacement 
> ConfigParser. Any implementation of attribute access would amount to a 
> possibly regression in functionality and more incompatibility with how 
> Microsoft did it, as keys may be duplicate in .INI land.

So to recap, even though I might believe it's a good idea
*for me*, in a particular application which I have in mind
and which you know nothing about, you believe that I should
not use such an approach, in my own code, on my own application.
Or at least you would say that I'm committing some sort of
really bad programming mistake by doing so.  Have I got that
right?

Or was it just that *you* don't like this pattern of access
(in which case I'd suggest that you don't have to use it,
since the dictionary approach is provided as well).

> My problem is that for some attribute access pattern:
> 
>      confobj.<category>.<item>
> 
> confobj represents a configuration reader which bears no relation to the 
> <category> objects that might be read from a configuration using the 
> reader. Furthermore <item> at best would return only the first key 
> matching <item> in <category>. At worst it would return a list of all 
> matching items which gets points for being extra confusing. We're also 
> veering way off normal Python object attribute access semantics.

For me, replace "confobj" with "config", representing the
"configuration information" of the program, and in that case
"category" bears a clear relation to it.  Furthermore, I have
*no duplicate keys*, so I really would like to use the much
simpler form of access "config.logging.maxfilesize" or some
such.

If I had only a "confobj" of your variety, which provided *only*
the dictionary interface, I would be sorely tempted just to read
in all the keys and store them in my own "config" object, which
would then be used as I mentioned above.  I'd really rather not
go to that extra effort.

I think this is a case of you imagining only one style of
access and application, while there are other scenarios where
other forms of access are equally appropriate *or better*.
Nobody is forcing you to use the other method though.

-Peter


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct  4 23:25:32 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 03:25:32 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4162142c$0$59860$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
> Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following 
> support: *please answer to each individually, thanks*

Wow. Rude much?

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://www.python.org/

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. the MYSTERIANS are
                                  at               in here with my CORDUROY
                               visi.com            SOAP DISH!!


From jezequiel at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 02:04:48 2004
From: jezequiel at gmail.com (Justin Ezequiel)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:04:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Tkinter and utf-8
References: <mailman.5643.1099019383.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4181cc21$0$3620$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <loom.20041029T075614-662@post.gmane.org>

Michel Claveau writes:  
  
> In XP (and 2000), the display of unicode use the uniscribe motor.  But the  
> standards win's versions are not (all) in top level. You MUST install more  
> recent version.  
  
Thank you.  
Found a page on microsoft.com about Uniscribe and will be reading it  
thoroughly.  
  
Any tips for a Mandrake newbie for getting a few more characters displayed  
WYSIWYG?  
I am actually considering writing a replacement for SC UniPad which we use on  
our Windows boxes. 
 



From tim.peters at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 14:30:47 2004
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:30:47 -0400
Subject: AssertionError in pickle's memoize function
In-Reply-To: <yyo3bzx4e4w.fsf@hooknose.lbl.gov>
References: <yyo3bzx4e4w.fsf@hooknose.lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <1f7befae04102911302623e428@mail.gmail.com>

[Michael Hohn]
> under python 2.2, the pickle/unpickle sequence incorrectly restores
> a larger data structure I have.
>
> Under Python 2.3, these structures now give an explicit exception from
> Pickle.memoize():
>    assert id(obj) not in self.memo
> 
> I'm shrinking the offending data structure down to find the problem
> and provide an easily reproducible example,
> but maybe someone on the list could tell me under what general
> conditions this assertion is expected to fail.

Assertions are never expected to fail, so "something impossible
happened" when they do fail.

See whether your Python has Lib/pickletools.py.  There's an enormous
amount of info about pickles in that (for example, it will tell you
what "memo" means).

May help to try cPickle instead of pickle.  Since they're distinct
implementations, they have different bugs.  cPickle can be much faster
than pickle, but it's a lot easier to understand pickle.py.


From ed at leafe.com  Sun Oct 31 19:38:19 2004
From: ed at leafe.com (Ed Leafe)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:38:19 -0500
Subject: Faking out __name__ == __main__
In-Reply-To: <41856376.1288438706@news.oz.net>
References: <mailman.5739.1099260363.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41856376.1288438706@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <53A75A44-2B9E-11D9-949E-003065B11E84@leafe.com>

On Oct 31, 2004, at 5:27 PM, Bengt Richter wrote:

> Maybe this will give you a useful idea?

	Very useful; thanks! The runtime now runs script files that use the 
'if __name__' construct. I would never have thought that you could 
modify the local namespace like that.

      ___/
     /
    __/
   /
  ____/
  Ed Leafe
  http://leafe.com/
  http://dabodev.com/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 08:33:52 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:33:52 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aJt8d.3299$M05.285@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1gl6qcq.kcu4qi1qojaksN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Alex [on tail call elimination]:
> > My use case for this was
> > the nightmare of 'recursion limits exceeded' for a nevow page with a few
> > hundred deferreds -- they got (implicitly, by the framework) chained to
> > each other by tail call (for termination purposes), 
> 
> Don't know enough about Nevow to comment.  Someone else
> pointed out an existing bytecode hack to support this
> so you might not need to wait.

Sure, there _are_ possible workarounds, as I've said.  I do believe it
might be nice, though, if a standard way existed (e.g. a decorator) to
express "the following function/method need not keep tracebacks but
rather should optimize tail calls", so that each framework or whatever
need not reinvent it.


> > I was very used to workspaces back in the days of APL and I still miss
> > them.  Why is it good not to have them?
> 
> I've never used such a system so this is only second hand.
> I recall hearing that in Smalltalk people end up customizing
> an image, which makes is harder for different people to work
> together on the same project.

As I recall, in IBM Research we tended to share a common workspace
across one project, though each of us could and generally did have their
own 'sandbox' workspace ``hived off'' the main one -- not very different
from the situation with any typical CVS / SVN / etc - controlled project
(though, if my memory serves, the workspace functionalities were skimpy
compared to today's typical versioning systems -- in terms of branching,
tagging, and other advanced stuff).  Imports/exports of sources for some
part of the workspace were commonly used; few of us had at home either
computers or terminals capable of good APL work (really needed a special
keyboard...), so a typical way to work evenings or weekends without
bothering to drive to the office would be to export some subtree of
sources, print it out (with a good APL-capable printer;-), and work with
a pencil on the printout.  Not very different from what one could do
with file, really; but in addition the workspace automatically kept
track of interactive sessions, with the ability to restart right from
where you left off, and also to export enough source code
_automatically_ to reconstruct the current situation somewhere else.

I have less experience of Smalltalk since I've never worked on "real"
group projects with it, but I'm sure its functionalities cannot be
lesser than what APL offered 20 years ago in its workspaces (maybe it
was already APL2 by that time... I'm not entirely sure, IBM Research
sometimes used such products internally before they were released).


> I think of it as working on a Python installation where
> I've installed more and more packages over time so when
> I start working with a new Python (working on a new
> machine, or upgrading to 2.4) I've got to reinstall
> everything to get my software to work again.  Only worse
> because in a workspace there might not be an independent
> source for a function I hacked together months ago
> that I end up using often.

Part of a workspace's functionality had better be that to emit sources
(for some or all of the stuff in the workspace) out to some text file,
which can later be loaded into some other workspace (on a new machine,
or after a version upgrade, etc).  Since at any time you can fire up an
editor on 'function so and so' (and I'm sure this holds for both APL and
Smalltalk), clearly the workspace must keep the sources, or be able to
reconstruct them rapidly on demand if what it does keep is some sort of
AST or whatever; dumping the sources out to a textfile and reloading
them from there thus shouldn't be too hard (and some selectivity, e.g.
"do you also want the dependencies or not" &c, should also be easy).

Of course not all Python objects will be properly serializable (to
source or to any other form) -- open files and open network connections
for example can hardly be 'frozen' and reconstituted at will, at least
in the general case.  But just as this doesn't stop us from having
pickle for that 90%+ of objects that CAN be serialized, it shouldn't
stop us from having workspaces, I think.


> >>Try Perl or Ruby instead.
> > 
> > 
> > Not Ruby!  That's a _good_ language:
> > 
> > kallisti:~/cb/cha/tex/cba alex$ ruby         
> > 2+"23"
> > -:1:in `+': String can't be coerced into Fixnum (TypeError)
> >         from -:1
>  >
> > to perpetrate such horrors, he definitely wants Perl.
> 
> Methods of builtin types can be changed in Ruby.  To

True, as I also pointed out later.

> Personally I think the ability to do this is a horror,
> precisely because it leads to the horrors you talk about.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a horror.  I do consider it an excess
of power/dynamism, which I'd rather not have in a language intended for
production use.

> > Not sure what docs (besides Python Cookbook and Python in a Nutshell)
> > one would have to read to find this answer -- differently from most
> > other questions he's asking, this one's hardly obvious from docs...
> 
> And I think I pointed it out to you in c.l.py 3 or 4
> years ago ;)

Google Groups to the rescue...: I do see a post from you mentioning the
idea, in late 2000, but it is in response to Raymond Hettinger, not to
me; Raymond was asking for "any mapping to be accepted on the right of a
% formatting operator" as a Python enhancement, and you pointed out that
the time machine had beaten him to it and mentioned using that
possibility in a docstring-formatting package you had written.

I was also involved in the same thread, discussing other aspects of
Raymond's wishlist, and it seems clear that I wasn't familiar with the
idea, at the time, because I didn't tell RH, in my responses, that it
would already work.  It does seem reasonable, therefore, to assume that
I got the idea from reading your response to Raymond -- though it was to
him, not to me, that you pointed it out;-).

Heh -- Googling for posts to c.l.py in that timeframe always points me
to my posts of a year before, where, identifying as a Python newbie, I
had the gall to point out that Python needed a way to overload 'in' (the
__contains__ method was already planned but I didn't know... I happened
to propose exactly the same special name though!-) and have any object
return an iterator (I called it an "enumerator" instead, and proposed
methods __enum__ and __advance__, while now they're called __iter__ and
next, of course).  Gotta reread that one once in a while to refresh my
patience towards newbies with the gall to propose changes to Python;-).

 
> > I agree with you that it does, though not as well as you appear to
> > believe (e.g. no `` 2 + "23" '' abominations in Ruby, either).
> 
> Unless one wants it.  That's why I think Ruby is a better fit
> for the OP -- it lets him change the language much more to
> meet his expectations than Python does.

Yes, this may indeed be an important point.


Alex


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct  7 12:28:37 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:28:37 -0400
Subject: Creating new classes on the fly
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4484.1097140045.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4376.1097009632.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gla4id.eu73uh1clm50oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4484.1097140045.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41656EB5.3010501@holdenweb.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

[...]
> 
> btw -- the documentation is lacking at *many* points when it comes to
> new style classes, metaclasses, descriptors, and the related
> protocols. I couldn't find a clear description of the class creation
> process there -- although there are lots of info in the Wiki... but
> there *should* be something on the docs, don't you think?

Indeed there should, and you prove yourself well-qualified to write it! 
Welcome to the world of open source ;-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sat Oct 30 04:50:28 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:50:28 -0700
Subject: running a python script in the background
In-Reply-To: <371349cd04103001425cfe4feb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <371349cd.0410291923.a0bc96b@posting.google.com>
	<20041029230524.0C07.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<371349cd04103001425cfe4feb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1099126229.7272.65.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 02:42 -0600, Arun Sivakumaran wrote:
> Actually, I am working from a 32-bit linux client and am SSHing to a
> 64-bit itanium server (not sure what's being run there).
> 
> I had tried the nohup option too before, that doesn't seem to help.

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66012

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 16:40:01 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:40:01 -0700
Subject: convert string to list
In-Reply-To: <ckjf9n$13ob$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
References: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
	<mailman.4833.1097669719.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckjf9n$13ob$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
Message-ID: <10mr4g761ru80e3@corp.supernews.com>

Jochen Hub wrote:

> I tried with eval...simply using
>
> thelist=eval(argv[1])
>
> it didn't work :-(, I got the error message
>
>   File "./findCenter.py", line 64, in ?
>     print eval(sys.argv[1])
>   File "<string>", line 0, in ?
> NameError: name 'A' is not defined
>
>>
>> #!/bin/bash
>> myscript.py A B C
>

The problem here is with shell quoting more than anything else.  In 
order for eval() to work, the sys.argv[1] must look like a normal Python 
list literal once your script gets hold of it.  That means that firstly, 
you need to get bash to pass everything after your script name (or at 
least, everything that's part of the list) as a single argument, and 
secondly, you need to have quoting right so that the contents of the 
list will be interpreted as strings, not variable names.  Try something 
like:

myscript.py "['A', 'B', 'C']"

However, I'm not sure how much manipulation of those quotes bash will do 
before it passes the arguments on to Python -- read man bash for 
specifics, I think it's in there somewhere, but it might not be pretty.

Also be aware that there's some serious risks here; consider the 
following --

myscript.py "__import__('os'); os.system('rm -rf /*')"

... which will actually attempt to delete your entire filesystem, or as 
much of it as the current user has access to.  Be very careful about 
accepting data to feed to eval().

On the other hand, if you use the other suggestions of simply passing 
arguments in bare (as you're trying to do) and using sys.argv[1:] as 
your argument list, then you'll be fine... except that you'll have a 
hard time passing in two separate lists.  I'm not sure that trying to 
accept two lists is really the best idea, but you could perhaps use some 
sentinel value to indicate where you want lists broken...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 13:57:29 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 10:57:29 -0700
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-function
	o verloading.
References: <mailman.5414.1098701076.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0410250957.1d53f860@posting.google.com>

> Am I correct in stating that Python does not support function overloading? 

Technically, yes.  Two methods with the same name can't coexist in the
same namespace.  Overloading makes sense in C++ because the compiler
is able to decide which function to use at compile time based on
number and type of arguments.  Python is (a) not compiled and (b) not
statically typed, so overloading as a part of the language makes a lot
less sense.

You yourself have demonstrated why overloading isn't necessary:  A
function can implement its own dispatch mechanism when invoked, based
on inspection of the arguments passed to it.

Additionally, considering that one can write functions with totally
arbitrary calling sequences,

def foo(*args, **keywords):
  ...

...you can go _beyond_ the C++ notion of overloading --- a mechanism
that only takes number and type of arguments into account.

As an example, here's one common way of simulating overloading with
Python.  We'll dispatch to functions that follow a certain naming
convention based on the class name of the argument:

def foo(arg):
   try:
      subfunc = eval("foo_%s" % arg.__class__.__name__)
   except:
      subfunc = foo_default
   return subfunc(arg)

def foo_default(arg):
   print "default foo behavior"

def foo_int(arg):
   print "argument is an integer"

def foo_str(arg):
   print "argument is a string"


foo('hello world')
>>> argument is a string

foo(23)
>>> argument is an integer

foo({})  # we didn't implement foo_dict
>>> default foo behavior


From meyer at acm.org  Sun Oct 24 05:10:46 2004
From: meyer at acm.org (Andre Meyer)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:10:46 +0200
Subject: UML tool for Python
Message-ID: <417b7195$0$764$3a628fcd@reader10.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Hy Pythoneers

Is there a UML tool that generates Python code? Maybe even 
reverse-engineer the design from code?

Ideally it would integrate with Eclipse and PyDev. I have found ArgoUML 
to be quite nice, but it lacks both of these features that I have 
already suggested as new features. I doubt, however, that they will do 
this given the fact that Eclipse has its own tool framework.

thanks for any hints
Andre


From noemail at spam.net  Mon Oct 18 11:29:00 2004
From: noemail at spam.net (Roger Irwin)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:29:00 GMT
Subject: Still problems with DLL
Message-ID: <0jRcd.157581$35.7724821@news4.tin.it>

I am using pythoncom to get access to an Autmoation DLL. I can get the 
typelibrary loaded, get a class of the object, get a module which wraps 
the class, and a lot of other things.

But I **can't** create any actual instances of the objects contained.

Is there a special procedure for getting an 'instance' of an Active X 
object?



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 17:56:32 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:56:32 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <416d2af0.154298900@news.oz.net>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com> <416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416d2af0.154298900@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <864d37090410131456126b74df@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:35:47 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> >Hey, I came first with that a couple of weeks ago :-) but in truth, it
> >was Alex Martelli that pointed to me that a metaclass function would
> >work... but not only is it not recommended, it's also said to make
> >Guido shudder ;-) Seriously, although it works, it's not recommended
> >practice. Metaclasses are supposed to be classes, not functions.
> >
> IIRC it was Guido himself who let the cat out of the bag about a function, in
> some early metaclass notes. But maybe I don't RC ;-)

Alex said that he was the one that shown it to Guido, but even he
couldn't recollect it very well. But that's not the point anyway.
 
> >class Foo:
> >    a,b,c = myfunc(...)
> >
> That one _will_ show a,b,c in order. They're all visible to the compiler as names.

Sure. I misunderstand your trick, and assumed you did similar to what
I did. Your trick is _much_ better than my original one. But still, it
can be fooled, as Peter has shown in another message; but OTOH, it
doesn't _require_ all names to be subclasses of some OrderedAttribute
class.

I'm now thinking about how to use your trick, maybe combined with
mine, into the same framework. I'll let you know if I managed to make
it.
 
> >Of course, we are now getting into corner cases that show how much are
> >we pushing class  statements in Python. The _sane_ way to make it all
> >work would be to have a hook to provide a user-defined dict to the
> >class locals() dir; aternatively, the natice dict() could provide a
> Interestingly, you can pass a dict subtype instance as the last arg to type, but
> it seems just to grab the instance's base dict. I.e., you apparently can't
> get the subtype instance back as .__dict__. Oh well ;-)
 
I don't get it; would you mind to explain it better? Did you test it?

> >ordered interface (but then it wouldn't be a simple hash mapping, a
> >more complex structure such as a tree would be needed). Both are far
> >from happening in Python 2.x, IMHO... and I really doubt if dicts will
> >ever be changed to accomodate ordering, even in Python 3.0. Too much
> >hassle for too little gain. A hook function seems to be more sensible.
>     class C(object, cdict=myDict): pass ??
 
My best bet is something like metaclasses implemented as class
decorators -- something that is read by the compiler _before_ the
class statement is executed. Being a class (not a function), it could
provide methods to customize some aspects of the class statement
execution; for example, a __getlocals__() method, or something along
these lines. and, of course, it would be able to put the __metaclass__
name right into the locals() dict, which would make it backward
compatible. The problem is, function decorators are only executed
_after_ the function def is executed; and having class decorators work
differently is a big no-no.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 03:35:12 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:35:12 +0200
Subject: UNIX-style sort in Python?
References: <I-6dnfLpv8Gzl-7cRVn-sw@comcast.com>
	<41734491$0$27969$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1glui57.aaac91au1t84N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417428ba.155690901@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1glwcv9.1k5026w3d2c45N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:

> But, have you tried msys/mingw ? I haven't done a lot with it, but it is nice,
> and supports most of the basic utilities including compiler/linker, though
> I prefer gvim directly over the vim via msys shell (I probably don't have
> the latter configured quite right).

I've used mingw in the past, never tried msys.  As for editors, GVIM
does work just fine on Windows, that's the least of the problems...


Alex


From wendum.denis at pasdepourriels.edf.fr  Thu Oct 14 01:59:39 2004
From: wendum.denis at pasdepourriels.edf.fr (denis wendum)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:59:39 +0200
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
References: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gljwcn.hu8qmfo9di8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416E15CA.9680C6A3@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>



Alex Martelli a ?crit :

> denis wendum <wendum.denis at pasdepourriels.edf.fr> wrote:
>
>
>
> Here's how to find out:
>
> >>> class foo:
> ...   def __getattr__(self, name):
> ...     print 'looking for %r' % name
> ...     raise AttributeError, name
> ...
> >>> f=foo()
> >>> 12 < f
> looking for '__gt__'
> looking for '__coerce__'
> looking for '__cmp__'
> True
> >>>
>
> See what's happening here?
>
> Alex

Many thanks for your answer: you didn't just gave me the fish I asked but also

showed me how to use a net for catching other fish.

It seems I triggered a fierce debate with my question, but as far as I'm
concerned your example worked perfectly.



From kbk at shore.net  Wed Oct  6 00:02:47 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 00:02:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
Message-ID: <200410060402.i9642lO6022228@h006008a7bda6.ne.client2.attbi.com>

Patch / Bug Summary
___________________

Patches :  241 open ( +6) /  2640 closed ( +3) /  2881 total ( +9)
Bugs    :  766 open ( -2) /  4492 closed (+12) /  5258 total (+10)
RFE     :  154 open ( +2) /   131 closed ( +0) /   285 total ( +2)

New / Reopened Patches
______________________

ftplib PASV error bug  (2004-09-30)
       http://python.org/sf/1037516  opened by  Tim Nelson

urllib2 HTTP digest authentication fix  (2004-09-30)
       http://python.org/sf/1037974  opened by  Mathieu Fenniak

Provide tuple of "special" exceptions  (2004-10-01)
       http://python.org/sf/1038256  opened by  Nick Coghlan

__main__ for whichdb.py  (2004-10-01)
       http://python.org/sf/1038388  opened by  Oleg Broytmann

Fix struct.pack on 64-bit archs (broken on 2.*)  (2004-10-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1038854  opened by  Stefan Grundmann

pydoc method documentation lookup enhancement  (2004-10-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1038909  opened by  Alexander Schmolck

OS X: Can't use #!/usr/bin/pythonw  (2004-10-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1038911  opened by  Nathan Gray

repair typos  (2004-10-02)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1038917  opened by  George Yoshida

SimpleXMLRPCServer optional allow_none / encoding arguments  (2004-10-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1039083  opened by  Guillermo M. Narvaja

Patches Closed
______________

repair typos  (2004-10-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1038917  closed by  rhettinger

doctest: allow custom matchers for testing if got=want  (2004-04-10)
       http://python.org/sf/932935  closed by  edloper

doctest: Add Tester params to DocTestSuite  (2004-04-10)
       http://python.org/sf/932932  closed by  edloper

New / Reopened Bugs
___________________

len(str(x)) in decimal.py is not Python 2.3 compatible  (2004-09-30)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1037373  opened by  Nick Coghlan

textReader: reading after close is a seg fault  (2004-09-30)
       http://python.org/sf/1038013  opened by  Jyrki Alakuijala

silent installation on windows: no drive in registry values  (2004-10-01)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1038410  opened by  Matteo Gallivanoni

Python 2.3+ socket._fileobject handles EAGAIN with data loss  (2004-10-01)
       http://python.org/sf/1038591  opened by  Jon Nelson

bad link in Tkinter docs  (2004-10-01)
       http://python.org/sf/1038693  opened by  Brett Cannon

Typo "signiture" in HTML generated by DocXMLRPCServer  (2004-10-02)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1038935  opened by  Malte Helmert

apply.__doc__ says "Deprecated since release 2.3"  (2004-10-02)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1039092  opened by  Jp Calderone

time zone tests fail on Windows  (2004-10-03)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1039270  opened by  George Yoshida

os.times() is bogus  (2004-10-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1040026  opened by  Guido van Rossum

Missing documentation on How To Link With libpython  (2004-10-05)
       http://python.org/sf/1040439  opened by  Sir Raorn

Bugs Closed
___________

Odd behavior with unicode.translate on OSX.  (2004-09-22)
       http://python.org/sf/1032615  closed by  doerwalter

Can't inherit slots from new-style classes implemented in C  (2004-09-24)
       http://python.org/sf/1034178  closed by  philthompson10

len(str(x)) in decimal.py is not Python 2.3 compatible  (2004-09-30)
       http://python.org/sf/1037373  closed by  ncoghlan

printf() in dynload_shlib.c should be PySys_WriteStderr  (2004-09-29)
       http://python.org/sf/1036752  closed by  loewis

hex() and oct() documentation is incorrect  (2004-09-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1035279  closed by  rhettinger

silent installation on windows: no drive in registry values  (2004-10-01)
       http://python.org/sf/1038410  closed by  theller

Typo "signiture" in HTML generated by DocXMLRPCServer  (2004-10-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1038935  closed by  bcannon

apply.__doc__ says "Deprecated since release 2.3"  (2004-10-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1039092  closed by  rhettinger

Message.get_filename() problem  (2003-12-04)
       http://python.org/sf/854102  closed by  bwarsaw

time zone tests fail on Windows  (2004-10-02)
       http://python.org/sf/1039270  closed by  bcannon

Case sensitivity bug in ConfigParser  (2004-08-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1017864  closed by  goodger

ConfigParser behavior change  (2004-07-24)
       http://python.org/sf/997050  closed by  goodger

New / Reopened RFE
__________________

win32 silent installation: allow MAINDIR on command line  (2004-10-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1039857  opened by  Matteo Gallivanoni

os.run function for convinience and robustness  (2004-10-04)
       http://python.org/sf/1040267  opened by  Alexander Schmolck



From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Sat Oct 30 16:06:04 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:06:04 -0400
Subject: [OT] Re: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.30.18.29.36.74744@jerf.org>
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5689.1099092886.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nl07o0lr3dvunoq2j0avuvmftnc837fvoc@4ax.com>
	<pan.2004.10.30.18.29.36.74744@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <4183F42C.4010706@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Hi all,

warning: off topic nitpicking below!

Jeremy Bowers said unto the world upon 2004-10-30 13:29:
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:12:36 +0000, Andrea Griffini wrote:
> 
>>You can't count using base 1 with positional systems.
> 
> 
> Well, you can, sort of. You end up with the integers, obviously, and the
> result has a rather striking resemblance to the modern foundations of
> number theory, in which there is only one number, 0, and the "increment"
> function which returns a number one larger. If you want three, it is
> expressed increment(increment(increment(0))), which is rather similar to
> the base-1 number "111". 

I take it you didn't mean 0 was the only number, but rather the only 
primitive number. (Alternatively " '0' is the only individual constant" 
in the cant I prefer.)

I am also surprised to see "increment" -- I come to that material with 
working in Philosophy of Mathematics and Logic, but almost every 
presentation I have ever seen uses "successor". (I'm going off of 
philosophical and mathematical logic presentations.)

I do so wish that terminology is the whole area would just stabilize 
already!

> 
> Zero in this system would probably be a null string, making increment this:
> 
> def increment(number):
> 	return "1" + number
> 
> (And abracadabra, I'm back on topic for the newsgroup, albeit tenuously :-) )
> 
> Some people say base 2 is the most natural base in the universe. But you
> can certainly make a claim for base 1, based on its correspondence to
> number theory, from which we build the rest of math. (Most people never
> dig this deep; it was one of my favorite classes in Comp. Sci., though,
> and we're probably the only people other than mathematicians to offer the
> course.)

I've never taken a single comp. sci. course, so I will both claim and 
commit disciplinary bias: serious undergrad logic/foundations of maths 
courses do happen in Philosophy, too :-)

On the other hand, I'm a bit surprised that these things get taught in 
comp. sci. This past summer when teaching Intro to Logic, I encountered 
at least one fourth-year comp. sci. student who had no idea what an 
axiomatic system was :-|

print "We now return you to your usual programing"

Best to all,

Brian vdB



From nospam at nospam.com  Sat Oct 30 08:43:32 2004
From: nospam at nospam.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:43:32 +0200
Subject: Color schemes
Message-ID: <41838c6e$0$7153$d5255a0c@news.wanadoo.nl>

Hi,

Is anyone using a color scheme for his Python scripts? I suspect 
most people are using a text editor which may or may not support 
colorisation of scripts (like Apple's Script Editor does).

The page at 
<http://interscript.sourceforge.net/interscript/doc/en_iscr_0328.html> 
contains a colorized tokenizing script. I assume the script can 
be used to make colour schemes and that a similar script is used 
to create all the scripts shown on the website.

Do you use a similar script in a Python IDE or in your text 
editor to colorize your Python scripts?

Mark

-- 

eHUG coordinator
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.ehug.info



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 26 07:37:53 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:37:53 -0400
Subject: newbie: pygtk (win, slack10)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5495.1098779417.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <20041025212503.94278.qmail@web54001.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5495.1098779417.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fLqfd.16544$lp6.959@okepread01>

Pierre N wrote:

> Open http://www.google.com
> Type in the text box: pygtk tips
> Look at the 4,710 results.
> 
> Should be enough for a while :-))
> If I could speak Brazilian as well as you speak English, I would be sooo 
> happy...
> 

Or "Portugese" as I understand they call it :-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From harddong at 21cn.net  Fri Oct  1 00:44:50 2004
From: harddong at 21cn.net (Dong Ge)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:44:50 +0800
Subject: Search and Replace in a text.
Message-ID: <06opl01rgc7d31l1efuc8ce7apgj9g1dq4@4ax.com>

I'm a new beginner of Python. I want to convet  "Text 1" to "Text 2"
below. How to do it?

__
Dong Ge
2004.10.01

Text 1:
...
Layer: Tv-Frame
Flags: 0x0
Attr: 1
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-pic
Flags: 0x2300
Attr: 1
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-shell
Flags: 0x0
Attr: 1
Focus Point: 0 0 0
...

Text 2:
...
Layer: Tv-Frame
Flags: 0x0
Attr: Tv-Frame
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-pic
Flags: 0x2300
Attr: Tv-pic
Focus Point: 0 0 0
Layer: Tv-shell
Flags: 0x0
Attr: Tv-shell
Focus Point: 0 0 0


From theller at python.net  Wed Oct 20 14:54:00 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:54:00 +0200
Subject: Pointer to Image
References: <a1301a8e.0410190637.74a091ad@posting.google.com>
	<d5zesplp.fsf@python.net>
	<a1301a8e.0410201033.43a05eb8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wtxlnruf.fsf@python.net>

cjankowski at hbr-inc.com (Chris Jankowski) writes:

> Here is what I have now.
>
> from ctypes import *
> def myOutputHandler(infotype, param):
>     outputFile.write("outhandler")
>     if infotype == "OT_TEXT":
>         print param
> ##        return param
> ##    elif infotype == "OT_ENDL":
> ##        return "\n"
> ##    elif infotype == "OT_ENDZ":
> ##        return "\n\n"
>     return
> #***************************************************************
> #* main process                                                *
> #* myList - requests                                           *
> #* inList - data file                                          *
> #***************************************************************
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     outputFile=open('c:\\newOCR.txt', 'w')
>     myOcr = cdll.LoadLibrary('C:\\SimpleOCR\\ocrdll.dll')
>     loadImg = myOcr.LoadMultipleImg
>     x = loadImg("c:\\chris.tif")
>     print x
>     setLanguage = myOcr.SetLanguage
>     setLanguage('ENGLISH',".")
>
>     setOutputMode = myOcr.SetOutputMode
>     setOutputMode("OM_TEXT")
>
>     setOutputHandler = myOcr.OCRSetOutputHandler
>     z = id(myOutputHandler)
>     errorx = setOutputHandler(z)
>         
>     getImage = myOcr.GetImage
>     img = getImage(x,0)
>
>     getNBImages = myOcr.GetNbImages
>     numImg = getNBImages(x)
>
>     processOCR = myOcr.OCR 
>     myTest = processOCR(img)  ## it will run without this line.
>     
>     freeMultipleImage = myOcr.FreeMultipleImg
>     freeMultipleImage(x)
>
>     outputFile.close()
>
> This will not run it abends when I try to call the .OCR function.  I
> am thinking that it cannot call the procedure to write the file.  Any
> ideas?

At least one problem that I see is that you are passing
id(myOutputHandler) to setOutputHandler call.  Assuming that
setOutputHandler expects a C callback function, this will not work.

Ok - send me (in private email) a pointer to where I can download the
ocrdll.dll including C header files, plus your 'chris.tif' image, and I
will take a look at it.

Thomas


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Oct 17 20:42:46 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:42:46 GMT
Subject: UNIX-style sort in Python?
In-Reply-To: <I-6dnfLpv8Gzl-7cRVn-sw@comcast.com>
References: <I-6dnfLpv8Gzl-7cRVn-sw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <akEcd.8228$gy1.757@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Kotlin Sam wrote:
>   % sort -t, +2 +5 imputfilename <return>

>   So, is there a module or function already available that does this?

In newer Pythons (CVS and beta-1 for 2.4) you can do

def get_fields(line):
   fields = line.split("\t")
   return fields[1], fields[4]

sorted_lines = sorted(open("imputfilename"), key=get_fields)

For older Pythons you'll need to do the "decorate-sort-undecorate"
("DSU") yourself, like this

lines = [get_fields(line), line for line in open("imputfilename")]
lines.sort()
sorted_lines = [x[1] for x in lines]

There is a slight difference between these two.  If fields[1]
and fields[4] are the same between two lines in the comparison
then the first of these sorts by position of each line (it's
a "stable sort") while the latter sorts by the content of the
line.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Oct  5 14:49:28 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:49:28 -0700
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4354.1096992685.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <20041004215641.266008304.whereU@now.com>
	<mailman.4354.1096992685.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10m5r2gd2u38898@corp.supernews.com>

Russell Nelson wrote:

>It really would be better to have one(1) string literal
>which can quote anything without reverting to backslashing.  Why one?
>Simpler parsing, simpler learning of the language, fewer choices to
>make while programming.
>  
>

The problem being, of course, that you need to find a string literal 
that will *never*, *ever* appear inside of a string literal.  Even in 
strings that contain language describing the quoting of string 
literals.  If there's any possibility of the need to display that 
particular string literal, then you need to either have an alternate 
(and what if you need both alternates in a string? then you need a third 
alternate...) or you need to have a way of escaping it.  ISTM that these 
elaborate Mandis-quote schemes may significantly reduce the odds of 
needing to escape a string literal, but the cost (in clarity, 
transparency, and most importantly, ability to manipulate your code in 
anything other than an advanced, complying editor) is pretty high.  I 
find '''triple quotes''' a lot easier to understand/explain than this 
scheme of defining arbitrary delimiters.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 27 08:07:01 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:07:01 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410262345.4017fbd5@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<clkvab$1dc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<Z8ofd.2777$kM.174@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<940ee3e8.0410262345.4017fbd5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <CgMfd.3$uN3.0@lakeread04>

kartik wrote:

> Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<Z8ofd.2777$kM.174 at newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> 
>>My guess is the not unusual case of someone who works mostly alone
>>and doesn't have much experience in diverse projects nor working
>>with more experience people.
> 
> 
> Hey, that's right.
> 
> 
> 
>>I've seen some similar symptoms working with, for example,
>>undergraduate students who are hotshot programmers ... when
>>compared to other students in their non-CS department but not
>>when compared to, say, a CS student, much less a experienced
>>developer.
> 
> 
> Oops. I'm a grad student, and I certainly don't have as much
> experience as a professional developer
> 
> -kartik

You're certainly not short on arrogance, though.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From cce at clarkevans.com  Tue Oct 12 12:28:31 2004
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:28:31 -0400
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <slrncmn4q1.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4q1.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <20041012162831.GB3907@prometheusresearch.com>

On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 08:19:55AM +0000, Antoon Pardon wrote:
| Op 2004-10-11, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
| > gabriele renzi wrote:
| >> then what you want is a better lambda. One where you can use return, 
| >> maybe, and  where you can have statements and multiple expressions.
| >> Don't throw away the baby with the bathwater.
| >
| > But because of Python's line- and indentation-based syntax, doing all of 
| > that on a single line is... um... awkward at best, to put it mildly.  
| 
| Which is one of the reasons I think the indentation-based syntax was
| a mistake. If the syntax becomes an argument against a construct
| in the language, something is wrong with the syntax IMO.

Indentation based structure is a godsend; a divine insight if you may.
Python is much much better for it.  However, just beacuse it can use
indentation, doesn't mean that indentation should be mandated for every
case.  Python uses {} and [] to scope dict and list items, but this does
not mean that a indentation based version of this wouldn't be welcome.
In general, indentation is great for "outer-structure" that is, 
delimiting large code blocks.  While delimiter based scoping is good
for inner structures, small blocks of code.  It should not be an 
either/or thing, one should properly have the option of using either
option depending upon which style brings the most clarity.

Cheers,

Clark


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 10:19:18 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:19:18 -0700
Subject: locks
In-Reply-To: <Xns958199317CD18duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4835.1097670275.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qa-dnWDkDKi-uPDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4845.1097675044.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns958199317CD18duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1097677159.12092.149.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 14:03 +0000, Duncan Booth wrote:
> Cliff Wells wrote:
> 
> > I'm no expert at dis nor Python bytecode, but I'll give it a shot :)
> > 
> >>>> l = []
> >>>> dis.dis(l.append(1))
> > 134           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (findlabels)
> >               3 LOAD_FAST                0 (code)
> >               6 CALL_FUNCTION            1
> >               9 STORE_FAST               5 (labels)
> >  
> > 
> > ... 
> ><snip dis spitting out over 500 lines of bytecode>
> > ...
> >  
> > 172     >>  503 PRINT_NEWLINE
> >             504 JUMP_ABSOLUTE           33
> >         >>  507 POP_TOP
> >             508 POP_BLOCK
> >         >>  509 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
> >             512 RETURN_VALUE
> >>>>
> > 
> > 
> > It looks fairly non-atomic to me. 
> 
> The append method of a list returns None. dis.dis(None) disassembles the 
> code from the last traceback object, nothing at all to do with your 
> l.append(1) code.

Ah, thanks.  I thought 500+ lines of bytecode was a bit excessive for a
simple append(), but didn't see any reason why.  I saw the comment in
the docs about dis returning the last traceback if no argument was
provided but didn't see how that applied here. 

> 
> Try this instead:
> 
> >>> def f():
> 	l.append(1)
> 
> 	
> >>> dis.dis(f)
>   2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (l)
>               3 LOAD_ATTR                1 (append)
>               6 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
>               9 CALL_FUNCTION            1
>              12 POP_TOP             
>              13 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
>              16 RETURN_VALUE    

Much more reasonable.  Still, I think my argument stands since this
appears non-atomic as well, although I do note this:

>>> l = []
>>> dis.dis(l.append)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/dis.py", line 46, in dis
    raise TypeError, \
TypeError: don't know how to disassemble builtin_function_or_method
objects
>>>

This suddenly gave me a smack on the head that list.append is
undoubtedly written in C and might, in fact, retain the GIL for the
duration of the function in which case the operation might, in fact, be
atomic (yes, I know that isn't necessarily what the above traceback was
saying, but it served as a clue-stick).

Still, despite the probability of being quite mistaken about the low-
level internals of the operation, I still stand by my assertion that not
using locks for mutable data is ill-advised at best, for the reasons I
outlined in my previous post (aside from the poorly executed
disassembly).

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From bartekgorny at interia.pl  Tue Oct 12 13:58:38 2004
From: bartekgorny at interia.pl (Taki Jeden)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:58:38 +0200
Subject: [twisted+wxPython] widgets do not work?
Message-ID: <ckh5u8$rod$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>


Hi

Anybody used wxPython with twisted?

I started putting together a Twisted-based app with wx GUI, and the widgets
just don't work - some controls do not show up etc. - at least on my
system.

For example, if I just take the wxdemo.py shipped with Twisted, and add to
it a static text, it doesn't show - while if I change 
        reactor.registerWxApp(app)
        reactor.run(0)
into 
        app.MainLoop(0)
the text is there. What the heck is wrong with this? Or am I doing something
wrong? Does the same work at yours?

Bartek

-- 
#!/usr/bin/env python
print 'sygnatura'


From anna at aleax.it  Wed Oct  6 17:10:38 2004
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Martelli Ravenscroft)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:10:38 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4449.1097094749.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4293.1096947506.5135.python-list@python.org>	<KUo8d.3033$UP1.1475@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4303.1096948810.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4162200b$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.4310.1096950256.5135.python-list@python.org>	<OzY8d.722$b5.34812@news3.tin.it>
	<mailman.4449.1097094749.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ibZ8d.878$b5.42130@news3.tin.it>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

> WOW!  Your late on the boat.  

LOL - Usually. My slavedriver husband keeps me working too much to keep 
up-to-date on c.l.py... ;-)

 > That is an old post and all is well at
 > this juncture.  Thanks anyway Anna.

Glad to see you've caught on and seem to be getting some good questions 
and answers.

[Belated] Welcome.

Anna


From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Fri Oct  8 00:47:59 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 00:47:59 -0400
Subject: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <qnkacuxhoyf.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<DaKdnbgpTNU0gvjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4521.1097173249.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qnkacuxhoyf.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <41661BFF.5060103@po-box.mcgill.ca>

David M. Cooke said unto the world upon 2004-10-07 23:24:
> Brian van den Broek <bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca> writes:
> 
> 
>>Frustrated, I turned back to <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines>,
>>following several others described as "standalone". Similar situation:
>>for instance PikiPiki's install instruction file says:
>>
>> > Make sure you have a web server that will let you run CGIs
>>
>>Each one I tried said (things I interpreted as meaning), that I needed
>>Apache, IIS, or some other form of webserver.
> 
> 
> If the problem is you don't want to setup and configure a webserver,
> there is a simple solution. Assuming the CGI script is in a directory
> cgi-bin below the current directory (for PikiPiki, something like
> cgi-bin/piki.cgi), then running python's CGIHTTPServer.py module as a
> script will give you a webserver to run CGI scripts:
> 
> [~/public_html]$ python /usr/lib/python2.3/CGIHTTPServer.py 8080
> 
> (where the path there depends on your installation, of course). Then
> http://localhost:8080/cgi-bin/piki.cgi will run the piki.cgi script.
> 
> Note that it will also serve all files below your current directory to
> the world if you're on the internet, so it's not the most secure
> thing.
> 

Hi David,

thanks for the suggestion. In the end, I did get Moin-moin up and 
running (but for some configuration wrinkles which I've posted to their 
list about), but I'm to have the information, nonetheless. Also, I'm not 
too surprised to learn I wasn't interpreting the "a webserver is 
required" claims correctly.

Since I'm planning to use it as a PIM, and don't want my plans for world 
domination to leak out ;-) it doesn't sound like the best route. Of 
course, having typed that, I'm now realizing I am not certain that the 
Moin-moin solution doesn't have the same result.

Thanks and best,

Brian vdB



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 14 09:03:34 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:03:34 -0400
Subject: UDP server socket
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4934.1097757424.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4934.1097757424.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XbadnXX6vvm75PPcRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>

Ajay wrote:
> whats the maximum number of datagrams that can queue up on a UDP server
> socket? or is that system dependent?
> i have some code that iteratively handles datagrams, and while testing it,
> i noticed that it responds to at most 3 datagrams (i tried sending 4, 6, 8
> and 10 datagrams / second)
> is that a system dependent feature or can i change that (i didn't see
> anything in the manual)

I don't believe (though I'm not an expert in UDP) that you can
"queue up" UDP packets at all.  At least, there are explicitly
NO guarantees as to whether any given packet will even make it
through the network, and I doubt any system provides explicit
guarantees as to how many UDP packets can be handled if there
is a backlog.  If you are looking for reliable communications,
that's what TCP is for... otherwise you have to handle missed
or duplicated packets yourself.

-Peter


From mwh at python.net  Thu Oct  7 07:47:24 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:47:24 GMT
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3is9m3g38.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

andre.naess at gmail.com (Andr? N?ss) writes:

> One thing I liked about Lisp was the ability to use the question mark
> (and the exclamation mark) in function names. 

I wrote a patch for this once.  It's pretty easy.

I'd also like for '-' to be a allowable character in identifiers.
That might break some code, though :)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I have no disaster recovery plan for black holes, I'm afraid.  Also
  please be aware that if it one looks imminent I will be out rioting
  and setting fire to McDonalds (always wanted to do that) and
  probably not reading email anyway.                     -- Dan Barlow


From mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 23 19:38:46 2004
From: mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (StvB)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 23:38:46 GMT
Subject: Anyone seen this app
References: <M8Bed.17600$nj.12728@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<417ae4c3$0$27542$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <aYBed.17626$nj.15841@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

you da man, that's exactly it.
Thank you Will
"Will McGugan" <news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com> wrote in message 
news:417ae4c3$0$27542$db0fefd9 at news.zen.co.uk...
> StvB wrote:
>> Can someone help me locate an open source product that I saw ?  --  
>> written with wxPython I think.
>
> wxCRP?
>
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~jorgb/wxcrp/
>
> Will McGugan 




From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 03:28:03 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 00:28:03 -0700
Subject: [Zope] how to send email witch attachment in python
References: <ck6lr2$10eo$1@news.uni-koblenz.de>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410102328.5c539e67@posting.google.com>

"Christian Otteneuer" <chotty at freenet.de> wrote in message news:<ck6lr2$10eo$1 at news.uni-koblenz.de>...
> Hello NG,
> 
> How can I send an email with an attachment from a python script?

If you want to send an email using Zope you are OT and you should ask
a Zope list; OTOH if you want to send an email from Python, just
use the email module and look at the documentation in the standard
library (especially the examples; they show how to do what you ask).

            Michele Simionato


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 04:17:02 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 01:17:02 -0700
Subject: Alternatives for pickle?
References: <mailman.4762.1097602721.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410130017.64c2a153@posting.google.com>

<exarkun at divmod.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4762.1097602721.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On 12 Oct 2004 08:25:10 -0700, fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) wrote:
> >Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote in message news:<slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon at rcpc42.vub.ac.be>...
> > > I'm writing a little game, a gridler application, where you
> > > can turn pixmaps into puzzle's and try to solve them. I already
> > > have the data structure for such a puzzle worked out, one of
> > > the problems is writing it to a file and reading it back in.
> > > 
> > > I first went to the pickle module but there I read this.
> > > 
> > > | Warning: The pickle module is not intended to be secure against
> > > | erroneous or maliciously constructed data. Never unpickle data
> > > | received from an untrusted or unauthenticated source.
> > > 
> > 
> > Hmmm..... I wonder how easy it is to craft a malicious pickle that
> > will automatically run code objects just because they are unpickled.
> > My guess is that it's quite difficult - I've never heard of it *ever*
> > being done. Someone would have to be *very* malicious to work out how
> > to do it on the off chance of planting a back door into someone's
> > machine through a program like yours. No offence intended, but if they
> > were going to go to all that effort I expect they might aim for
> > something with a wider audience.
> 
>   It's absolutely positively trivial.  It took me about 30 seconds to come up with this pickle, about a year ago:
> 
>   'c__builtin__\neval\np0\n(S"__import__(\'os\').system(\'touch blah\')"\np1\ntp2\nRp3\n.'
> 
>   Anyone with moderate knowledge of pickle is capable of constructing something similar.
> 
>   Jp

And that pickle is run just by being unpickled ? Far out - I'll have
to have a look at it...

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From Anna at nospam.invalid  Fri Oct 29 14:54:04 2004
From: Anna at nospam.invalid (Ann)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:54:04 GMT
Subject: PIL JPEG Windows Problem
References: <6U5gd.19857$SW3.18915@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <glwgd.331214$3l3.277135@attbi_s03>


"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:6U5gd.19857$SW3.18915 at fed1read01...
> If nobody has a quick answer I'll go to the PIL list, but I'm having
> problems with PIL JPEG support on Windows, and figured someone on c.l.py
> might have solved this problem.
>
> I built the Cygwin PIL from source, and that works a treat.
> Unfortunately the Windows version (1.1.4 and 1.1.5b1) loaded using
> binary installers is giving

<snip>

I am a newbie, but I installed python about 2 months ago, from binaries
and added PIL maybe a month ago with no problems on Win XP Pro. I refuse
to compile anything.
The python log file has no 'jpg' or 'jpeg' files, but the
PIL log file has these two:
200 File Copy: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\JpegImagePlugin.py
200 File Copy: C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\JpegImagePlugin.pyc
I do not have libjpeg.dll
HTH

> When I import the _imaging module directly a dialog box informs me that
> libjpeg.dll can't be found, and I have confirmed that it isn't anywhere
> on the disk  - I have a libjpeg.dll.a as part of cygwin, but I can't
> persuade myself this can be munged into suitable form. It would be nice
> if I were wrong ...
>
> The PIL docs do say something about having to add JPEG support, but
> unfortunately I can't find any information about adding *Windows* JPEG
> support.
>
> regards
>   Steve
> --
> http://www.holdenweb.com
> http://pydish.holdenweb.com
> Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119




From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 11:38:29 2004
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (G. S. Hayes)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 08:38:29 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4287.1096945195.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <96c2e938.0410050738.3e65ff5e@posting.google.com>

Arich Chanachai <macrocosm at fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:<mailman.4287.1096945195.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> What if foo doesn't know about bar(), can I tell foo that perhaps it 
> should send the bar() message to...say....boo?

Sure.  Just override __getattr__ in foo's class.  The below is a
simple example, in real life you might want a way to designate where a
particular Foo delegates unknown requests (e.g to a particular Bar
instance)

class Boo(object):
    def bar(klass, arg):
        print "bar", arg
    bar = classmethod(bar)

class Foo(object):
    def __getattr__(self, attr):
        if not hasattr(self, attr):
            return getattr(Boo, attr)
        return self.__dict__[attr]
    def foo(self, arg):
        print "foo", arg

foo = Foo()
foo.foo("hello")
foo.bar("goodbye")


From deets.nospaaam at web.de  Thu Oct 21 10:03:54 2004
From: deets.nospaaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:03:54 +0200
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch> <2tpq8vF20rf1rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cl8fe5$43h$1@news.imp.ch>
Message-ID: <2tptvhF22rpa8U2@uni-berlin.de>

> hmm i'll have to rephrase my question... i KNOW that the file changes
> every 10 seconds... easiest would be i just give you the source code ;)
> the program is a nice little windows which displays ACPI information
> about battery status and stuff like that. the program is working just
> fine. but i want the performance tweak it... 

Why don't you keep the file open, and read until the end - that will give
you all that has been appended since the last read. You might run into
buffering issues here, but you should be able to modifiy the
termios-settings of the filedescriptor so you can read data even if only a
byte has  been send.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Mon Oct 18 18:54:04 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:54:04 +0200
Subject: Facing the world with SimpleHTTPServer
In-Reply-To: <1098136619.832912.243090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1098136619.832912.243090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4174498c$0$78749$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Jed Parsons wrote:
> Hola -
> 
> I'm curious about using SimpleHTTPServer as the web server on my home
> machine.  It would pretty much just be hit by me, search robots, and
> automated attacks :)
> 
> So, before I ditch apache for the fun, all-python setup, are there any
> security concerns about using SimpleHTTPServer?
> Thanks for any advice/info,
> 
> Jed
> 

Security concerns: I don't really know, but there is one nasty
problem with it: it reports an invalid content-length for text files.
(sourceforce patch 839496).

--Irmen


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct 15 04:29:58 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 01:29:58 -0700
Subject: ANN: Logging Package v0.4.9.5 released
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410150029.7390daa3@posting.google.com>

A new version of the Python logging package has been released. If you
are using version 2.3 of later of Python, this release will not mean
much to you - it is the same as recent checkins into Python CVS.
However, this release fixes 1.5.2 compatibility bugs in the last
independent release (0.4.9.4), and may be of interest to people using
Python 1.5.2.

What Does It Do?
================
The logging package offers the ability for any Python program to log
events which occur during program execution. It's typically used to
provide application diagnostics, warnings and error messages. In
addition to capturing "what happened", "where it happened", "when it
happened", "how important it is" and event specific data, you can
configure, without changing the application source code, both the
verbosity of logging and the routing of events to different
destinations such as console, disk files, sockets, email addresses,
Web servers, SOAP servers etc. etc. You can even change the
configuration of a running program without stopping and restarting it!

You can use the logging package in exception handlers, and it will
include traceback information in the log. It's thread-safe, and very
easy to use - just "import logging" and log away! Classes provided
include:

Logger - used to log messages for a particular area of an application.
You can instantiate these wherever you want, there's no need to pass
references to them around your application. You can log events based
on importance levels of DEBUG (least important), INFO, WARN, ERROR,
and CRITICAL (most important). You can define your own levels if the
default levels don't meet your requirements.

Handler - used to route events to particular destinations. Handlers
included are:
   StreamHandler (for generalized streams, including console)
   FileHandler (for disk files - including log file rotation with size
limits for log files)
   SocketHandler (for sending events to a TCP socket)
   DatagramHandler (for sending events to a UDP socket - faster, but
less reliable than TCP)
   SMTPHandler (send events to arbitrary email addresses)
   HTTPHandler (send events to Web servers)
   SysLogHandler (send events to Unix syslog)
   MemoryHandler (batch up events and process them several at a time)
   NTEventLogHandler (send events to Windows NT event logs)
   
There are also examples of XMLHandler and SOAPHandler in the
distribution.

Formatter - used to format events as text strings. Flexible "msg %
arg_tuple" formatting is the basis for formatting, with flexible
date/time formatting including ISO8601 and any strftime-based formats.

Filter - used when filtering based on importance
(DEBUG/INFO/WARNING/ERROR/CRITICAL) is not sufficient. The
distribution includes examples of filters based on class matching,
regular expression matching, value matching, and logger matching.

In the unlikely event that you're daunted by all the apparent
complexity, fear not. The package offers a simple function-based
interface to allow very simple, almost casual use of the underlying
features.

In addition to the core logging functionality, you get the ability to
configure logging using a ConfigParser-based text file format, a
Tkinter-based GUI configurator which creates configuration files for
you, and a simple network-based event receiver which receives events
on TCP, UDP, HTTP and SOAP ports. This is suitable for testing and
might perhaps serve as a model for your own event receivers. Also
included are over 20 test scripts which serve both as test harnesses
and examples of how to use the logging package.

You can get more information from

http://www.red-dove.com/python_logging.html

There are "download" and "recent changes" links at the top of that
page. API documentation is available at

http://www.red-dove.com/logging/index.html

As always, your feedback is most welcome (especially bug reports,
patches and suggestions for improvement). Enjoy!

Cheers

Vinay Sajip
Red Dove Consultants Ltd.

Changes since the last independent release:
===========================================
Removed 1.5.2 incompatibility involving *=, +=


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 07:15:49 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 08:15:49 -0300
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <r8ydncR5KordxcDcRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<du71xgjpsay.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<z5nr98uuk2l4.ul5xbcv4hq6x.dlg@40tude.net>
	<r8ydncR5KordxcDcRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <864d370904100204157fd38525@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:14:40 -0400, Peter L Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> Wolfgang Keller wrote:
> > There seem to be some Python bits out there, for example MatPLC and
> > Lintouch use Python and some commercial products as well (PyDACHS), but
> > unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a more or less consistent library
> > for industrial automation or a coordinated effort to build up one.
> 
> What, in your opinion, would it take to start one?  I'm able to
> offer the use of a server to host a web site, and would be happy
> to register a domain name or something, but those are the easy
> bits.  Some kind of core group to get it off the group is likely
> more important than a name, though sometimes threads in this
> group might lead one to suspect otherwise. ;-)

I did work on software development for remote monitoring devices in
the mid 90's, using C and ASM. I worked with serial communication, and
in *all* cases, I had to implement some "brad-new" proprietary
protocol, or emulate a twenty-year-old one that was poorly documented,
if documented at all. I sincerely don't understand why is this market
so reluctant to progress. All parties involved are *so* reluctant to
share information as to make real progress impossible. It may be
because of their business model, where they expect to make some money
out of "services" -- customization, selling drivers and development
kits -- but even so, the industry as a whole seems to be stuck in the
past.

I now have a related interest that would probably benefit HUGELY from
this effort, and in fact, could help to "bootstrap" it: residential
automation. Yes, I know that the protocols are different, and the
needs are different, but the situation is pretty much the same as for
both fields: too much closed solutions, bad documentation, and people
still stuck at ten-years old technology. A good forum could bolster
the discussion, and the development, of new technology for residential
automation, which has the kind of mass appeal that can make things
scale up better.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Thu Oct 21 12:08:48 2004
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:08:48 -0700
Subject: building Python on solaris
In-Reply-To: <fz48nwtd.fsf@python.net>
References: <fz48nwtd.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <4177DF10.6090207@activestate.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> So, it seems a c++ library is missing.  I assume the C++ compiler isn't
> really needed to build Python - can I somehow run configure so that this
> test is skipped?

Perhaps the --without-cxx configure option will work for you? I build on 
Solaris with the native Sun Pro C compiler so I can't be sure.

Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
trentm at activestate.com


From lonetwin at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 04:19:01 2004
From: lonetwin at gmail.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:49:01 +0530
Subject: how do i change from string to list
In-Reply-To: <slrncnns2p.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>
	<slrncnns2p.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
Message-ID: <5a309bd304102501193d8475ec@mail.gmail.com>

Hi John,
     Although you already have the reply to your question, I thought I
should point one thing out. I have seen plenty of newbies wanting to
convert a string to a list so that they can do some sort of list
related manipulation on it. The good thing about python strings though
is, they are valid "sequences", which means that any sequence related
operations can also be carried out on strings.

For example:
>>> s = "foobar"
>>> for i in s:
...     print i, 
... 
f o o b a r
>>> s[3:]
'bar'
>>> s[:-1]
'fooba'
>>>

...but I guess you already knew that :)

HTH someone,
Regards
Steve


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 17 21:25:07 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:25:07 -0700
Subject: md5 and large files
In-Reply-To: <cpafz4cal6a.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
References: <4172AA52.9030606@vt.edu>
	<cpafz4cal6a.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
Message-ID: <20041017181200.0A17.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> If all you want to do is verify that a file is not corrupt, MD5 is the
> wrong algorithm to use. Use something fast like crc32.

CRC32 is only useful for detecting line transmission errors on
relatively small blocks of data, and even then, it does poorly.

MD5 is also fairly quick.  I can compute md5 checksums at roughly
10megs/second with a 400 mhz processor.


> If you really need it to be efficient, don't use Python. Use a native
> program like md5sum or sum or something.

Since the md5 module is implemented in C, the only slow part is the few
lines of Python and perhaps IO; though Python has IO speed comparable to
C.


 - Josiah



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Oct  6 13:57:32 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 06 Oct 2004 13:57:32 -0400
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4287.1096945195.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10m5t1rbirngjd0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <uacuz4tmb.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> writes:

> In addition to redefining __getattr__()/__setattr__(), as has already
> been suggested, it's even easier to have your calling code (which
> probably knows more about how to recover from failure than the called
> code) decide what to do.
> 
> try:
>     foo.bar()
> except AttributeError:
>     boo.bar()

One thing that you need to be aware of with this approach is that your
exception handler can catch an underlying AttributeError below the
level you probably intend when you write this code.  So, for example,
if foo _does_ have a bar method, but when bar is running it does
something to raise an AttributeError, the caller might mistakenly
think this meant foo had no method.

Whether or not that matters in practice of course depends on the
application at hand, and it's probably a bug in any case, unless bar()
is supposed to be able to raise AttributeError.  But it can represent
a difference from having the foo overload __getattr__, since in that
case you concretely know that foo does not have an attribute and
forwarding on the request to another object won't risk duplicating
partial operations.

-- David


From roy at panix.com  Sat Oct 23 23:24:07 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 23:24:07 -0400
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<pu3mn0hpnqn4shs0cofgfa8i2gu61mb5pd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <roy-1F2491.23240723102004@reader1.panix.com>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:
> The biggest difference, in my view, is the global archive of sample code.
> There are many, many sites with sample PHP pages, snippets, and modules.
> However, they are almost universally bad.  Monolithic code, no modularity,
> no structure, no separation of presentation and processing.  No one seems
> to use classes.

I've seen plenty of code which meets your description in all sorts of 
languages; C++, Java, Perl, you name it (even Python).  The classic 
aphorism is "You can write Fortran in any language", but that's probably 
an unfair jab at Fortran, since it's certainly as possible to write good 
code in Fortran as it is to write bad code in other languages.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 26 12:17:22 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:17:22 -0700
Subject: comparing multiple copies of terrabytes of data?
In-Reply-To: <Y6adnT9_jr6Ny-PcRVn-hQ@giganews.com>
References: <mailman.5446.1098734965.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Y6adnT9_jr6Ny-PcRVn-hQ@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <20041026080408.0B41.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
> > The code to do so is simple:
> 
> ...
>  >     p = -1
>  >     good = 1
>  >     while f1.tell() < p:
>  >         p = f1.tell()
>  >         if f1.read(b) == f2.read(b) == f3.read(b):
>  >             continue
> 
> ...
> 
> What is slightly amusing is that your *simple*
> solution is actually incorrect. You got the
> comparison backwards in the while loop.

My finger slipped.


> Other functional deficiency when compared to
> the cmp diffs is that you don't know which
> file has changed or which byte differs
> ...  adding that brings about the potential
> for another set of bugs. Then someone else comes along
> who knows a little less about python and adds
> a little feature to the program that actually
> silently breaks it ...

You are now talking about code maintenance, which is a separate issue
from "how fast can I compare three files", which was originally asked
about.


> Whether or not it is actually faster remains
> to be seen. And that was my whole point,
> not to don't dismiss cmp to soon, see how it works
> test it, then armed with some real numbers one
> can make better decisions.

Ok.  Let me see.  I am using the fastest computer in the apartment; my
wife's 2.26 ghz P4 without hyperthreading, with a gig of memory, running
two 40GB ATA-100 drives.  I have created 3x1.5gb files on one of the
drives (I don't have 4.5tb free), which should give us a reasonable
measure, if shy by around 3 orders of magnitude in terms of time.

cmp looks to be taking 0-12% processor, so I was correct in my statement
that it is likely disk bound (unless your disks are 8 times faster or
your processor is 1/10 as fast).

Oh, goodness, it is still going.  I've been typing this email for over 8
minutes.  It sure would be nice if cmp had a progress bar.  At least
then I could know if I should kill it now or wait another few minutes.
To hell with it, I'm going to try the Python version.

*make little fix to code to give me a progress bar, time elapsed, and an
expected total time*

cmp: at least 8 1/2 minutes for the first cmp, was not finished, I
killed it. At least 17 minutes in total; 
Python: 15 minutes, 3 seconds to finish it all.

Hrm, that is only around 5 megs/second.  I think we can do better (even
if it is already better than cmp)...
New algorithm...


def compare_32(fn1, fn2, fn3):
    mn = md5.new
    st = time.time()
    f1, f2, f3 = [open(i, 'rb') for i in (fn1, fn2, fn3)]
    b = 2**20 #tune this as necessary
    p = -1
    good = 1
    total = 1.5*2**30
    digs = []
    m = mn()
    while f1.tell() > p:
        p = f1.tell()
        digs.append(m.update(f1.read(b)).digest())
        if not ((p>>20)&7) and p:   
            a = 100.0*p/total/3
            d = time.time()-st
            print "%8.1f%%  %8.0f\t\r"%(a,100*d/a),
    m = mn()
    for dig in digs:
        if dig != m.update(f2.read(b)).digest():
            print "files 1 and 2 differ before", f2.tell()
            good = 0
            break
    m = mn()
    for dig in digs:
        if dig != m.update(f3.read(b)).digest():
            print "files 1 and 2 differ before", f3.tell()
            good = 0
            break
    if good and f1.read(1) == f2.read(1) == f3.read(1) == '':
        print "files are identical"
    f1.close() #I prefer to explicitly close my file handles
    f2.close()
    f3.close()


That new one runs in 5 minutes 15 seconds total, because it exploits the
fact that sequential reads are fast.  It does use ~20% processor to
compute the md5s, which only makes a difference if your processor is as
fast as a 400mhz P4.

I'd say that Python wins here.  Is that concrete enough for you?


 - Josiah



From sean at buildingonline.com  Wed Oct 20 15:10:04 2004
From: sean at buildingonline.com (Sean Berry)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:10:04 -0700
Subject: Replaced time module with my own on accident - help
References: <2rydd.51253$hj.10617@fed1read07>
	<mailman.5238.1098299218.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <YJydd.51254$hj.50936@fed1read07>

> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:49:58 -0700, Sean Berry <sean at buildingonline.com> 
> wrote:
>> I was writing a little script to test different functions of the time
>> module.  Like an idiot, I named the test script time.py.
>>
>> Then when I tried to do a "import time" call, I got an error.
>>
>> So, my time.py has overwritten the time.py builtin mod.
>
> Your problem may be a little bit simpler to solve. When you do a
> 'import time' is looks first in the current directory; if it doesn't
> find a module by that name, it searches the module path (I forgot the
> name), which usually on Unix points to the lib subdirectory of your
> Python installation. It appears that you own (broken) time.py module
> is just getting the precedence over the standard one. If that's the
> case, just removing your own time.py (or renaming it) should solve
> your problem.
>

Thanks for the heads up.  I had already tried that, but I did not realize 
that the .pyc file had been compiled and was in the directory as well. 
Deleted it and all is fine.

Thanks Carlos. 




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Oct  4 04:05:05 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 04 Oct 2004 10:05:05 +0200
Subject: C API eqivalent of object.__new__
References: <tyfis9uewct.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyfekkieka4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gkzg4y.a7sne11n04ng0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacv6e98e.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gkzozy.dbfgcurv3dfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tyf655qewni.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>    ...
> > I was indeed starting to think about PyObject_Call* approaches to
> > this, but didn't want to go down that path without making sure that I
> > haven't missed some function that was specifically designed to do it.
> > 
> > If _you_ don't know of one, then I'll take that to mean that I
> > shouldn't waste more time looking for it :-)
> > 
> > Thanks.
> 
> You're welcome, but wrong (even though very kind!-) in assuming I
> necessarily know every nook and cranny of Python's C API

I assume no such thing. I merely think that if you are not aware of
it, then the probability is sufficiently high that I haven't missed
something glaringly obvious just because of my incompetence in the
field of RingTFM ;-)

Also, if the PyObject_Call* approach is good enough for you, then the
chances are fairly high that it will be good enough for me.

> "Make it work, make it right, make it fast", as Kent Beck says!-).

I've been quoting (a variation on) this to all and sundry, and
attributing it to KB for a few years now, but I've completely
forgotten where I came across it. Do you know its origin ?


From agriff at tin.it  Sun Oct  3 19:33:26 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 23:33:26 GMT
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <mailman.4227.1096839829.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fu-dnW0ayarAGf3cRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <a321m0ptb8j9rfq01mrd5pn9vg791njquf@4ax.com>

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:59:41 -0400, Peter L Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

>No problem.  I believe I got and replied to an offline query(*) with
>some of the same content, but in any case I'm much happier carrying
>on such discussions "in public" where others can contribute, flame
>us as the idiots we are for not knowing about project X on Sourceforge
>(which they just started last week) which will do exactly what
>we want, and so on. ;-)

I think that python could be very useful in a lot of
areas of industrial control (often there's no
hard-realtime constraint and you can use a consumer
PC for the software).

The only thing that scares me a bit about using python
is that industrial control is (at least for the part
I'm seeing for my job) terribly closed-source.
I see for example that its very very common to use
even hardware locks for the software.

I'm not my boss, and could be hard to explain that it's
not a problem using an interpreted language that is
easily decompilable and using modules with licenses
that are basically nonsense in this context.
To a very specific question I was answered here that
the best thing to do before using e.g. pygame in a
closed source product is consulting a lawyer; and
that obtaining a clear answer would have been a sign
that the consulted lawyer isn't a good one.

Andrea


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 25 12:26:09 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:26:09 +0200
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5432.1098719901.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d2543$0$45533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <clj9du$l12$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> I don't really want to have to come to individual agreements
> with 5-10 different module authors.??That's?why?"standard"
> licenses were invented.

Yes, and for an author to GPL a module is the standard way of saying use it
as you like in your program, but distribute your part of the work under the
same terms. Basically an embrace-and-extend antidote for code.

I think talking to an author and maybe offering a moderate fee if you want
terms more favourable to your purpose shouldn't be too much.

Otherwise you have to stick to modules with BSD/MIT/Python Licenses - not
that rare in Python land.

Peter






From ml at dynkin.com  Mon Oct 11 01:52:12 2004
From: ml at dynkin.com (George Yoshida)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:52:12 +0900
Subject: [OT] Where to host an open source project? Sourceforge? Who
 offers Subversion already?
In-Reply-To: <ckd61r$i4m$1@newshispeed.ch>
References: <ckd61r$i4m$1@newshispeed.ch>
Message-ID: <ckd728$288u$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>

F. GEIGER wrote:

> I never could get acquainted with CVS. I like Suberversion, however, and am
> using it now instead of SourceSafe (yep, I'm on Windows).
> 
> So the hoster should be able to offer access to a Subversion server.
> Hmm, probably I had better asked, "where should I start my journey best?".

If subversion is a must-have for your project and you're looking for
a hosting service like sourceforge, I'll bet BerliOS is the best
choice.

   http://developer.berlios.de/

-- george


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 18 17:39:47 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:39:47 GMT
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1glv5uk.n5etko6o0g7xN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <417436f8.159336884@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:04:58 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Jonathan  Ellis <jbellis at gmail.com> wrote:
>   ...
>> > By reference to an object....See the python tutorial.
>> 
>> Wrong.  Here is the difference between pass by reference and pass by
>> value to CS types:
>> 
>> >>> def foo(a): a = 1
>> ...
>> >>> i = 10
>> >>> foo(i)
>> >>> print i
>> 
>> With pass-by-reference, i would now be 1.  However, since python is
>> pass-by-value, it remains 10.
>
>...so you tell "CS types" it's pass-by-value, and they come right back
>with
>
>def bar(b): b.append(2)
>
>z = []
>bar(z)
>print z
>
>With pass-by-value, they'll say, z would still be [].  However, since
>what is passed is not just (a copy of) the value, but (a reference to)
>the object itself, z is [2] instead.
>
>The terminology problem may be due to the fact that, in python, the
>value of a name is a reference to an object.  So, you always pass the
>value (no implicity copying), and that value is always a reference.
>
>I find it simpler to explain as: the semantics of argument passing are
>_exactly_ identical to that of assignment (binding) to a barename; you
>can fruitfully see argument passing as local (bare) names of the called
>function being assigned initial values by the caller (that's exactly
>what happens, in practice).  Now if you want to coin a name for that,
>such as "by object reference", "by uncopied value", or whatever, be my
>guest.  Trying to reuse terminology that is more generally applied to
>languages where "variables are boxes" to a language where "variables are
>post-it tags" is, IMHO, more likely to confuse than to help.
>
>
Maybe something like this can help elucidate the mechanism(s) of passing arguments?
(I.e., as a sort of automatic tuple formation from the arg list and unpacking it
into the locals indicated by the parameter name list)?

 >>> a = 1
 >>> b = 'two'
 >>> def foo(x,y):
 ...     print 'x=%r, y=%r'%(x, y)
 ...
 >>> def bar(*args):
 ...     x, y = args
 ...     print 'x=%r, y=%r'%(x, y)
 ...
 >>> c = (a, b)
 >>> foo(a,b)
 x=1, y='two'
 >>> foo(*c)
 x=1, y='two'
 >>> bar(a,b)
 x=1, y='two'
 >>> bar(*c)
 x=1, y='two'

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 12:34:32 2004
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (G. S. Hayes)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 09:34:32 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<41622FEB.1000300@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4319.1096957126.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <96c2e938.0410050834.7f8008d6@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.4319.1096957126.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > >     bar = staticmethod(bar)
[SNIP]
> > How come Python always complains when I don't include the self parameter
>   
> > in an object method?  Your code doesn't work on my interpreter.
> 
> I don't know what is wrong with your interpreter...

Wasn't staticmethod added somewhat recently (2.2 timeframe?)?  If so,
maybe he has an older version installed...


From zathras at thwackety.com  Thu Oct 28 18:11:19 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:11:19 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <clrke5$a3n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410282309470.21849-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Robert Kern wrote:
> Donnal Walter wrote:
>
> > Thanks for this reference and the one to Creative Commons. Is there a
> > good mailing list or on-line forum appropriate for discussing
> > licensing issues?
...
> http://www.opensource.org/licenses/#email
>
> I do recommend reading some of the archives first. Some of your
> questions have been tread over many times on that list.

Reading Lawrence Rosen's book on open source licensing is highly
recommended as well for people interested in this sort of thing. It's
oddly readable for a law (IPR law at that) book.

Regards,


Michael.



From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct 12 10:08:07 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:08:07 GMT
Subject: Database Connectivity
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<BvCdne92t9yqU_fcRVn-pw@megapath.net>
	<mailman.4723.1097525156.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gljewt.t3m4wtirod26N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9i4t32-jck.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <1gljewt.t3m4wtirod26N%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
			.
		[Alex correctly 
		recommends Mac OS X
		and Linux]
			.
			.
>Yes, this IS a crucial issue.  If an open-source project is "abandoned",
>your own projects based on it are _not_ dead or forced to migrate: you
>have the option of continuing to use the existing project, taking it up
>to develop it further, or at an intermediate level doing some minimal
>maintenance on it, etc.  If a piece of commercial software is
>*abandoned*, OTOH, your own projects based on it are in deep trouble;
>you _are_ forced to migrate, or try to -- beause you cannot buy the
>software and new licenses for it any more.
			.
			.
			.
... only more so.  In principle, code escrow addresses some of these
concerns.  Code escrow never works.  Oh, yeah, sometimes it's imple-
mented, and paid for, and activated, but it's always a total loss.
I've lived through code escrow numerous times, and, even when it
appears to work, it's a mess.  Open source is sooooo much safer.  

... except that, on the other side, corporate attorneys are soberly
advising open source should NEVER be used, because of patent concerns.
Interesting times will continue.


From maschio_77 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  1 18:47:39 2004
From: maschio_77 at hotmail.com (Federico)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 00:47:39 +0200
Subject: py2exe and Tix
Message-ID: <cjkmrg$o4h$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

How can I freeze a script using Tix with py2exe?

I try with this:

#provatix.py
import Tix
w=Tix.Tk()
Tix.Label(w,text='hallo').grid()
w.mainloop()

#setup.py
from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe
import glob
setup(console=["provatix.py"])

so I have provatix.exe but when I run it I have an error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "provatix.py", line 2, in ?
  File "Tix.pyc", line 210, in __init__
_tkinter.TclError: can't find package Tix

Where is the error?
Thanks





From dkeeney at travelbyroad.net  Fri Oct 15 16:16:46 2004
From: dkeeney at travelbyroad.net (David Keeney)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 13:16:46 -0700
Subject: pythondoc or epydoc?
References: <cjr2n0$17v1@qum07.mms-dresden.de> <416167E5.3020906@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <4c1b9685.0410151216.72ebe37@posting.google.com>

The biggest complaint I have about epydoc is that it presents all
inherited methods (and data attributes?) for each class, even those
inherited from the builtin 'object' class.  There is a configuration
option to choose how those inherited elements are grouped, but none to
eliminate builtin attributes alltogether.  Does anyone have a trick to
accomplish this, or is there a modified version of the epydoc script
around that produces builtin-less docs?

I figure programmers sophisticated enough to know what to do with the
inherited methods can divine the opportunity from the 'def
class(object):' line.   For most readers, those inherited methods are
just clutter.  The 'object' class is in many class defs because that
indicates 'new-style' to the python interpreter, rather than because
those inherited methods are specifically used or overridden.

David

> I feel that epydoc makes a slighter better presentation than pydoc and
> use the former.
> 
> Colin W.


From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 25 15:38:26 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:38:26 -0300
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca> <m31xfmwqwb.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<HICdnSp-CJXCzuDcRVn-gw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <m3k6tevb9p.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Are you taking my question out of context?  I really doubt
> Brazilian law says that if I provide access to the source
> code for open source software, I *must* provide "support".

It says you must provide some kind of guarantee and a certain level of
support, no matter if the source is or isn't included. 

I was not trying to take anything out of context, just citing one
occasion where you might have obligation to give support to a product
and the example was a law requirement.

> What does this law say is the form of the support?  Do I have
> to provide a 24x7 call centre staffed with nice knowledgeable
> people?  Do I have to provide a detailed design document
> showing how the modules interrelate?  What kind of turnaround
> on fixing bugs or responding to emailed questions is required
> by this law?

Read above and please, drop the rocks from your hands.  I hope we are
here to sum up and share knowledge instead of fighting.  If these are
serious questions, I might answer later.  If they are just to start a
some kind of silly fight, I won't have lost my time.

> I'm not a lawyer, but I'm guessing you aren't either, so
> I suspect the argument is pointless.  I don't believe that

No, I'm not.  But I know some of these obligations -- and our lawiers
check the agreements to see if we are acting accordingly to the law
everytime there's some need (e.g. with a new client, with some new
development, etc.).

> I would have an significant obligation in the context in
> which my comments were made, and in the unlikely event I
> did, I really doubt that I would be required to provide
> such support for free.  I know, you didn't say that it
> had to be for free.  Well, I charge $1,000,000 per incident
> for support requests for my open source software (at my
> whim, usually waived though ;-).  What does Brazilian
> law say about that?

You are allowed to charge it if it's the agreement your client signed /
accepted.


See you,
-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Tue Oct 19 10:04:45 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:04:45 +0200
Subject: bz2 & cpu usage
In-Reply-To: <cl365b$hh8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cl365b$hh8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <cl36lk$83l$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Brad Tilley schrieb:
> I'd like to keep at least 50% of the cpu free while doing bz2 file 
> compression. Currently, bz2 compression takes between 80 & 100 percent 
> of the cpu and the Windows GUI becomes almost useless. How can I lower 
> the strain on the cpu and still do compression? I'm willing for the 
> compression process to take longer.

Three approaches:

1) Use a thread for the I/O part (i.e. the de/compression) and another one 
for the GUI.

2) Collect the files first, then handle one after the other and return to 
the GUI in between.

3) Use a non-blocking scheme for the whole thing (may be the trickiest).

Stefan


From hpk at trillke.net  Thu Oct 14 11:13:44 2004
From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:13:44 +0200
Subject: PyPy Vilnius Sprint 15-23 nov 2004
Message-ID: <20041014151344.GS15456@solar.trillke.net>

Hi Pythonistas and interested developers,

PyPy, the python-in-python implementation, is steadily moving
on.  The next coding sprint will take place in Vilnius,
Lithunia, from

    15th to 23rd of November, 2004

and is organized by the nice Programmers of Vilnius (POV)
company.  See http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?doc for more
in-depth information about PyPy.

Again, we will be heading towards a first generated C version
of our already pretty compliant Python interpreter and types
implementation.  Last time, before the EuroPython 2004
conference, we actually had a similar goal (a PyPy/C-version) but
discovered we had to largely refactor the basic model for
attribute accesses. We are now closely mirroring the marvelous
"descriptor"-mechanism of CPython.   

If you are interested to participate in our fun and somewhat
mind-altering python sprint event then please subscribe at

  http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/VilniusSprintAttendants

and look around for more information. You'll find that most of
the core PyPy developers are already determined to come. There
are also many areas that need attention so that we should
have tasks suited for different levels of expertise. 

At http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/VilniusSprintTasks
you'll find our sprint planning task list which will probably 
grow in the next weeks.

Note that our EU funding efforts are at the final stage now.
In the next weeks, quite likely before the Vilnius sprint, we
_hope_ to get a "go!" from the european commission.  One side
effect would be that coders - probably restricted to european
citizens - may generally apply for getting travel and
accomodation costs refunded for PyPy sprints.  This would
reduce the barrier of entry to the question if you like to
spend your time with a pypy sprint.  However, we probably need
some time to work out the details after when we get more
information from the EU. 

If you have any questions don't hesitate to contact
pypy-sprint at codespeak.net or one of us personally.

cheers & a bientot,

    Holger Krekel, Armin Rigo 


From bulliver at badcomputer.no-ip.com  Thu Oct  7 06:33:06 2004
From: bulliver at badcomputer.no-ip.com (Darren Kirby)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 03:33:06 -0700
Subject: binary numbers
In-Reply-To: <7rk9m0dsvdtunjpm9sh90p42gfgge47t2l@4ax.com>
References: <cjv58g$q5i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <41633247.6000400@gmail.com>
	<7rk9m0dsvdtunjpm9sh90p42gfgge47t2l@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200410070333.11943.bulliver@badcomputer.no-ip.com>

quoth the Tim Roberts:
> Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote:
> >Darren Kirby wrote:
> >>  I think our friend is looking for a module or function that turns 5
> >> into 101 (or perhaps 00000101)
> >>
> >> Brad, have a look here:
> >> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/219300
> >>
> >> -d
> >
> >Thanks, this is what I need.
>
> No, it isn't.  Registry REG_BINARY values are NOT binary, in the sense of
> "a string of ones and zeros".  REG_BINARY means "an arbitrary list of
> bytes".  The string "ABCD" is a perfectly legitimate value for a REG_BINARY
> registry value; it will display in a hex dump as "41 42 43 44 00".
> --
> - Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
>   Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

Well, to defend my own ignorance here, I have no idea about editing a windows 
registry, in fact I do not run windows. Brad's original post was:

>This would be nice:

>import binary
>x = binary(5)

And the info I pointed him to was exactly what he asked for...
Seems a good thing that we have some "CS" types around here :)

-d
-- 
Part of the problem since 1976
http://badcomputer.no-ip.com
Get my public key from 
http://keyserver.linux.it/pks/lookup?op=index&search=bulliver
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972 
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From noone at here.com  Fri Oct 22 15:41:35 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:41:35 +0100
Subject: String and quotation marks
Message-ID: <clbnkp$245$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi All,

I'm displaying some static text in wx.python. All is ok if I write the text
as so;

 self.label_1 = wx.StaticText(self, -1, " categggirlcow")

However I have the names as a string without quotes

        names = ['cat','egg','girl','cow']

# flatten names

        for i in names:
            h = map(None, ab[i])

            l1 = []
            for i in h:
                for j in list(i):
                    l1.append(j)
            x = "".join(l1)


            print x,
            # - gives of course cat egg girl cow

            printnames = " \"x\""  # -- I've tried this, but it doesn't work


            self.label_1 = wx.StaticText(self, -1, printnames)

Could someone show me how to get some quotes around the string so I can use
it for the static text?

Thanks,

Malcolm




From mike at hobbshouse.org  Tue Oct 26 10:47:24 2004
From: mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:47:24 -0000
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <10nsors556qr00b@corp.supernews.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> Customers seem to have no problem with not getting source code,
> but once you _do_ give them source code then you have to
> support it.  Ignoring customers when they ask questions about
> the source code has always proven in past experience to be "not
> an option."

My reading of the GPL indicates that you don't have to supply source
code along with your software; you just have to supply a note indicating
that the source is freely available upon request. One way to socially
engineer this situation is to not include the source by default. If
one of your customers is savvy enough to then request the source, that
customer should also be savvy enough to realize that you won't provide
support for any modifications to the source. It should also be easy
enough to explicitly state the limitations on your support at the time
the request is made.

- Mike




From exarkun at divmod.com  Fri Oct 15 13:43:32 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:43:32 GMT
Subject: reloading updated modules in long running server?
In-Reply-To: <opsfw9veq16yt6e7@news.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <20041015174332.4730.45301192.divmod.quotient.114@ohm>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:36:40 -0700, aurora <aurora00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>I am looking for a way for reloading updated modules in a long running  
> server. I'm not too concerned about cascaded reload or objects already  
> created. Just need to reload module xxx if the corresponding xxx.py is  
> updated.
> 
> I found something useful in module.__file__. Would it work if I use it to  
> generate filenames xxx.py xxx.pyc and then compare their mtime? I'm not  
> too sure about the mechanism of generation of .pyc file. Would it be too  
> system specific to reply on?

  Is it really important that they be reloaded automatically as soon as they change?  What if several modules are being updated in concert, and the change is noticed before all of the files have been updated?  Won't the source be in an inconsistent state and probably take down, or at least effect negatively, the server?

  I would put a big fat (possibly figurative) button on the application somewhere and press it when I wanted the source updated.

  Jp


From adurdin at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 00:58:44 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:58:44 +1100
Subject: End of file
In-Reply-To: <416a09c4.4267802054@news.oz.net>
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2sucjlF1p5plpU1@uni-berlin.de> <416a09c4.4267802054@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a0410102158179dac9e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:51:28 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> why is class apparently not legal as a simple statement terminated by ';' ?
> (I wanted to attempt an alternate one-liner ;-)
> 
>  >>> class Record:pass; rec=Record()
>  ...
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in Record
>  NameError: name 'Record' is not defined

This is the equivalent of:

class Record:
    pass
    rec = Record()

That is, the whole line after the : is interpreted as the body of the
class. The name Record is not defined within its body, hence the
NameError.

Another [sort-of related] question: why does the following not produce
a NameError for "foo"?

def foo(): print foo
foo()


From theller at python.net  Wed Oct 27 03:54:33 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:54:33 +0200
Subject: printing HTML or PDF from Python
References: <mailman.5514.1098804827.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <y8hs61fq.fsf@python.net>

Donnal Walter <donnal at donnal.net> writes:

> We want to be able to print HTML or PDF files to a given printer from
> Python in a kind of batch mode (without opening a preview window or
> printer dialog for each file). The printer is on a network, but for
> testing purposes I have connected it to my desktop via LPT1. I can
> easily print a text file from Python using:
>
> os.system("copy some.txt LPT1")
>
> And as expected, using this function with "some.html" simply prints
> the html source. (But I tried it anyway. :-) I presume that one would
> need to go through a Web browser of some kind to print the formatted
> document (using CSS, BTW), but we don't want the user to see the
> browser window, or be required to click on the Print button, etc. Is
> there a way to do this from a Python script? We are currently deployed
> on Windows, but would like to keep the application cross-platform if
> possible. We have Mozilla installed, for example, if that would be of
> use, but I've searched the Mozilla mailing list archives without
> seeing anything about printing via Mozilla without actually opening a
> browser window.
>
> The same more or less goes for PDF files. We have Acrobat Reader
> installed, but I can't see how to print a PDF file from Python via AR
> without opening the file inside the reader and manually printing each
> one. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

On windows, you would use the ShellExecute function, with 'print' as the
second parameter.  Available in pywin32.  Python itself also exposes it
as the os.startfile function, but unfortunately this doesn't accept a
second parameter.

Thomas


From bokr at oz.net  Fri Oct 29 23:35:58 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 03:35:58 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4182fdae.1127710872@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:58:47 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>I hesitate a bit to post this, but... on the Italian Python NG, somebody
>was asking whether there was any way to convert an integer number x into
>a string which represents it in an arbitrary base N (given a sequence
>with a len of N that gives the digits to use) as "a single expression".
>
>I haven't found a really general way, much less a clear one, but, the
>best I have so far is...:
>
>def number_in_base(x, N, digits, maxlen=99):
>    return '-'[x>=0:] + (
>        (x and ''.join([digits[k%N] for i in range(maxlen) 
>                        for k in [abs(x)//N**i] if k>0])[::-1]
>        ) or digits[0])
>
>Besides the lack of clarity, the obvious defect of this approach is that
>darned 'maxlen' parameter -- but then, since I can have only a 'for',
>not a 'while', in a list comprehension or generator expression, and I
>don't think recursion qualifies as 'a single expression'...:-(
>
>Anyway, improvements and suggestions welcome, thanks!
>
Maybe something useful in this? Not very tested (and not terribly clear either ;-)

 >>> def number_in_base(x, N, digits):
 ...     return x==0 and digits[0] or '-'[:x<0] + ''.join([d for d in iter(
 ...                 lambda qr=[abs(x),0]:qr[0] and (
 ...                     qr.__setslice__(0,2,divmod(qr[0],N)) or digits[qr[1]])
 ...                 , 0)][::-1])
 ...
 >>> number_in_base( 126 ,2,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '1111110'
 >>> number_in_base( 126 ,8,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '176'
 >>> number_in_base( 126 ,16,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '7E'
 >>> number_in_base( 1   ,16,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '1'
 >>> number_in_base( 0   ,16,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '0'
 >>> number_in_base(-126 ,16,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '-7E'
 >>> number_in_base(-126 ,2,'0123456789ABCDEF')
 '-1111110'

Even less tested, and using a list subtype with overridden next to do the same:

 >>> def number_in_base(x, N, digits):
 ...     return x==0 and digits[0] or '-'[:x<0] + ''.join([d for d in type('',(list,),{
 ...                 '__iter__':lambda s:s, 'next':lambda s:(
 ...                     s[0] is 0 and iter([]).next() or
 ...                     s.__setslice__(0,2,divmod(s[0],N)) or digits[s[1]])
 ...                 })([abs(x),0])][::-1])
 ...
 >>> number_in_base(-126, 8, '01234567')
 '-176'
 >>> number_in_base(-126, 2, '01')
 '-1111110'
 >>> number_in_base(126, 2, '01')
 '1111110'
 >>> number_in_base( 0 , 2, '01')
 '0'
 >>> number_in_base( 1 , 2, '01')
 '1'

;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 30 10:46:47 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:46:47 -0700
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20041030073656.0C16.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> another Perl/Python question: the subject says it all.
> 
> Perl is going to change dramatically to become a more powerful and
> easier to (read|write) language.
> 
> Is Python taking a similar step (-> Python 3) some time in the near future?

I'd say Python 2.2, 2.3 and 2.4 are all answers to Perl 6.  Python has
gotten incrementally faster, gained a larger standard library, and added
some language features without breaking backwards compatibility in a
major way.

Python is getting better /today/.  Python is available /today/.  Perl 6
won't be available for a couple years, meanwhile, Perl 5 doesn't seem
like it has undergoing any significant changes in a few years (I don't
follow Perl 5's development, but I haven't noticed any slashdot stories
on Perl 5).

 - Josiah



From lbates at syscononline.com  Wed Oct 27 11:57:22 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:57:22 -0500
Subject: FTP file creation date
In-Reply-To: <de8687be.0410270727.12eb2d3b@posting.google.com>
References: <de8687be.0410270727.12eb2d3b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qMadnQR9qJj9WOLcRVn-3w@comcast.com>

[ EuGeNe ] wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to write a script that downloads one file from a ftp
> server if the file creation date satisfy a condition.
> 
> I can't figure out how to find from a ftp server what is the creation
> date of the file (using python).
> 
> Any idea?
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> EuGeNe

I don't believe there is anything like .stat methods included
in ftplib.  I have always retrieved a directory of the files and
extracted the creation dates from each file manually.  Then
acted on them accordingly.  You should note that the dates on
most FTP servers are relative to the clock on that server (not
your local clock).  If the clock on FTP server is different
from yours, either because it is off or because it is in a
different timezone, you must adjust accordingly.

Larry Bates


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sun Oct 17 15:49:31 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 17 Oct 2004 12:49:31 -0700
Subject: List Flatten
References: <5c882bb5.0410161531.41713754@posting.google.com>
	<ckteik$sg7$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<10n500532adhd22@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0410171149.698afe@posting.google.com>

Peter Otten:

>Have you considered generators?<

I haven't because I am still learning Python, and I still don't know
all the unusual features of it.
I'll try to improve, there are many things to learn.


>I have not timed it, I just prefer the generator for its clarity
(provided it is correct, I haven't tested it either).<

It seems correct, and the timings are a bit better than mine for some
cases (very nested lists) and a bit slowler for other cases (quite
flat lists). I think usual list are already quite flat (like 2D
arrays, etc).


>Generators may also save you a lot of memory for very large data
structures as you can iterate over a flat _view_ of your nested lists
without ever having to _create_ the large flat list.<

I understand; this is very interesting.


Jeffrey Froman's version is recursive, and I have refused such
versions because the stack is limited by default.

Thank you all for the comments and nice ideas,
a bear hug,
bearophile


From adonisv at DELETETHISTEXTearthlink.net  Fri Oct 22 20:50:26 2004
From: adonisv at DELETETHISTEXTearthlink.net (Adonis)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 00:50:26 GMT
Subject: Python C API Question.
Message-ID: <mVhed.5099$5i5.1298@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

This is my first crack at using Python from a C level, and also a long time 
since I have even used C, so my wording might be off, when creating a new 
list utilizing the PyList_New(...) function, instead of creating a list of a 
fixed length, is there a way to create a variabled length instead?

Any help is greatly apprecited.

Adonis 




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 28 14:26:55 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:26:55 -0700
Subject: Directly calling threaded class instance methods and attributes
In-Reply-To: <just-732139.20082828102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.5624.1098986746.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<just-732139.20082828102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20041028111619.0BA6.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Just <just at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> 
> In article <mailman.5624.1098986746.5135.python-list at python.org>,
> 
> FWIW, you don't need a global statement for globals you don't assign to, 
> so you don't need to declare lock global.

I was going to say that I did it for speed, and I could have sworn that
stating something was a global resulted in a fewer namespace lookups,
but testing does not confirm this (it actually refutes it). I guess this
says that I should be aliasing globals when I really care about speed,
making it...

>>> def goo(n):
...     global val2
...     _lock = lock
...     for i in xrange(n):
...         _lock.acquire()
...         val2 += 1
...         _lock.release()


...for a little bit faster (though the locking/unlocking will overwhelm
the actual time spent.

 - Josiah



From nomail at no.way  Tue Oct 26 13:52:32 2004
From: nomail at no.way (Bats)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:52:32 +0200
Subject: Fedora 1 and Eric3
References: <cldm39$qo7$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <clfgq2$5hs$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<qKPed.292$rs5.51451@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.5402.1098672126.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clm2o0$h7q$3@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Cliff Wells had this to say:
> http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3?stat=3&search=qscintilla&srodzaj=3
> http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3?stat=3&search=PyQt-qscintilla&srodzaj=3
> 
> You'll also need sip and qt, but these are most likely already
> installed.  If not, Googling for, say 'sip rpm' will be left as an
> excercise ;)
> 
> python install.py (as root)
> 
> Total time: about 5 minutes

Am looking for a yum repos for the Eric rpms. I will go all "apt-get" mad
when I have no option left!
Thanks for the links, I recall having all these rpms and it still did not
work - are you on Fedora 1 ?

-- 
Bats
~..~
(I can only post on weekends and rare times during the week.)



From mwh at python.net  Mon Oct 11 11:46:50 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:46:50 GMT
Subject: Algorithm used by keyword 'in'
References: <lYS9d.144800$Kt5.79976@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.30.10.505058@jerf.org>
	<lTV9d.145034$Kt5.13032@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.4637.1097348147.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m37jpx1cly.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

dataangel <k04jg02 at kzoo.edu> writes:

> Derek Rhodes wrote:
> 
> >>In addition to John Roth's post, see the bottom of
> >>http://docs.python.org/ref/sequence-types.html , which will help you
> >>create your own algorithms for your own classes, if you like.
> >>    
> >
> >Thanks for quick response guys.
> >
> > -Derek.  
> Is python smart enough to do say a binary search if you sort the list
> right before using in?

No.  How would Python be able to tell the list was sorted?  There's
the bisect module for when *you* know the list is sorted.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit.
                                                -- W. Somerset Maugham


From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Oct 19 08:43:52 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 12:43:52 GMT
Subject: Help needed: cryptic perl regular expression in python syntax
References: <bD7dd.1707$i81.1401@read3.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <slrncna2rg.e49.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-10-19, pekka niiranen schreef <pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com>:
> Hi there,
>
> I have perl script that uses dynamically
> constructed regular in this way:
>
> ------perl code starts ----
> $result "";
> $key = AAA\?01;
> $key = quotemeta $key;
> $line = "   s^\?AAA\?01^BBB^g; #Comment "
> if ($line =~ /(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\?\??$key\??)\3(.*?)\3(.*)/) {
> 	$result = $5;
>
> # $result should be "BBB"
> # \3 gets the same value as returned by (.)
> # which is in this example ^. So we are searching
> # parameter limited by first two ^-signs
> # and returning the one limited byt the second
> # and third ^-sign. Note that using \3 in regular
> # expression enables other constants used than ^ -sign.
>
> ------perl code stops ----
>
> How can I construct equivalent python regural expression ?
>
> I have tested with constant regular expression like this:
>
> >>> line = '   s^\\?AAA\\?01^BBB^g; #Comment '
> >>> r1 = "(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\\\\?\\\??AAA\\\\\?01)"
> >>> re.compile(r1).findall(line)
> [('   ', 's', '^', '\\?AAA\\?01')]
>
> Which is fine, but is there a way to join 3 raw strings
> together into another raw strings? like:
>
> r1 = r'''(^\s*)(s|tr)(.)(\\?\??'''
> r2 = r'''\\?\??)\3(.*?)\3(.*)'''
> p1 = r1 + key + r2 # p1 should remain raw string too
>

If I understand correctly there are no raw strings, just raw string
literals. The re.compile uses just a normal string.

raw string literal just make it easier to form a strings that are
typically used for regular expressions but the strings themselves
are just ordinary strings.

>>> s1="\\b"
>>> s2=r"\b"
>>> s1==s2
1
>>> s1
'\\b'
>>> s2
'\\b'
>>> print s1
\b
>>> print s2
\b
>>> 

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 12 11:05:23 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:05:23 -0400
Subject: How to: get list of modules in a package
In-Reply-To: <4OudnSEQhLvFyfbcRVn-pg@rogers.com>
References: <4OudnSEQhLvFyfbcRVn-pg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <dfWdnaXpKtgvb_bcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>

Dan Perl wrote:
> Is there a direct way to get a list of all the modules in a package, other 
> than using an os.listdir() for the directory of the package?

Given the dynamic nature of Python, I doubt that's easy to do.
I'm not sure even os.listdir(), for example, can be relied on,
given that you can import modules from zip files, or if the
import hook is used, even from remote locations or, presumably
(though I haven't seen it done yet), from "thin air" where
the module is generated dynamically.

-Peter


From sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr  Fri Oct  8 22:13:13 2004
From: sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr (Stelios Xanthakis)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:13:13 -0700
Subject: GUI wrapper for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython
In-Reply-To: <caydnVL1k8gZE_vcRVn-iA@rogers.com>
References: <mailman.4573.1097237841.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<caydnVL1k8gZE_vcRVn-iA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <41674939.30807@ceid.upatras.gr>

Dan Perl wrote:

> It sounds like a great idea.  I assume that this is a wrapper around the 
> objects that are common in all of those GUI libraries.  Can you post a list 
> of the objects that you support in Twilight?  It can be just the list from 
> Twilight (with short descriptions), without the equivalents in all the 3 
> libraries.
> 

I should really post some online docs.
However there is still a lot that can be done. For now we have
  button, checkbutton, label, radiobutton, togglebutton, textentry
  editor/viewer, list, tree, popup, dialog, tabs/MDI, openFile, saveFile
  image viewer.

> I have to point out though that there seems to be a bug from what is shown 
> in the screenshot.  The titles of the windows don't match the radio buttons 
> on the right side.  Or just clicking one of those buttons doesn't trigger 
> the change and you have to click also on 'Run it!'?
> 

Yes. For example the first window is opened in pygtk. From it I rerun 
its code in wx by selecting 'wx' and clicking "Run it!". From the wx I 
select pyqt and that results in the qt window. However the library is 
not meant to use all 3 toolkits at the same time! There are problems. 
QApplication usually freezes the other exec_loops.  So the screenshot
is actually fake. Because of the qt window (which was opened last) the
other two don't respond!


Stelios



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Thu Oct  7 15:01:15 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:01:15 +0100
Subject: Python-Matlab extensions: Comparisons?
References: <uhu1m0t4euvekl61ilengepdhuettvmutr@4ax.com>
	<yfsfz4qai0t.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<mailman.4514.1097167225.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfs4ql673pg.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> writes:

>
> [...]
>
> Alex, I'm not terribly qualified to judge most of this, as my matlab experience
> is exactly zero.  But I'd suggest you pass some of this stuff over for review
> at the scipy-dev list, at least the parts you consider of more general
> interest.  It would be great if scipy could really become the canonical
> repository for this kind of commonly useful functionality.

Well, once I get the stuff ready, I'll also announce it on the scipy and
numeric lists, as they seem most relevant. I'd be happy to have anyone
incorporate any of the code into whatever project they like, partly or whole,
but I guess e.g. a matlab wrapper is too specific (only useful for people who
have matlab; although one could presumably easily create an octave version).
I'm not sure how much general interest there'd be in the other two, I guess
the matrix class could be made redundant if some of it's features were made
available in numarray or scipy.array.

'as


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Oct  5 19:50:33 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:50:33 -0700
Subject: id() collisions on bound methods [was: metaclass and customization
	with parameters]
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F33@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Andrew Durdin wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:57:49 -0300, Gustavo Niemeyer
> <niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:
> > 
> > That's not true. The def statement is rerun every loop, no matter
> > what parameters are used. One can check that by issuing:
> > 
> > print MyClass.method0.im_func
> > print MyClass.method1.im_func
> 
> Hmmm... If I create MyClass as above, I get the following results
> which I don't understand:
> 
> >>> mc = MyClass()
> >>> id(mc.method0)
> 9343264
> >>> id(mc.method1)
> 9343264
> >>> mc.method0
> <bound method MyClass.newmethod of <__main__.MyClass instance 
> at 0x008E93A0>>
> >>> mc.method1
> <bound method MyClass.newmethod of <__main__.MyClass instance 
> at 0x008E93A0>>
> >>> mc.method0.im_func
> <function newmethod at 0x008E7730>
> >>> mc.method1.im_func
> <function newmethod at 0x008EC0F0>
> >>> id(mc.method0.im_func)
> 9336624
> >>> id(mc.method1.im_func)
> 9355504
> 
> Why do mc.method0 and mc.method1 appear to be the same object?
> 
> Even more confusing to me is:
> 
> >>> class Foo:
> ...     def method0(self):
> ...             pass
> ...     def method1(self):
> ...             pass
> ...     def method2(self):
> ...             pass
> ...
> >>> Foo.method0
> <unbound method Foo.method0>
> >>> Foo.method1
> <unbound method Foo.method1>
> >>> Foo.method2
> <unbound method Foo.method2>
> >>> f = Foo()
> >>> id(f.method0)
> 9345304
> >>> id(f.method1)
> 9918464
> >>> id(f.method2)
> 9918464
> 
> Here f.method1 and f.method2 share the same id, which is different to
> that of f.method1...
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me as to why this happens?

..further:

>>> f = Foo()
>>> id(f.method0)
18569136
>>> id(f.method1)
18536648
>>> id(f.method2)
18536648
>>> id(f.method0)
18536648

...so the id() result is mutating somehow, even for the same object.
This is true for both old- and new-style classes, by the way, and also
holds for methods where you don't simply pass (I tried return 0,
return1, and return 2, for example function bodies)

Hmmm...


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From littlejohn.75 at noos.fr  Fri Oct  8 16:33:43 2004
From: littlejohn.75 at noos.fr (F. Petitjean)
Date: 08 Oct 2004 20:33:43 GMT
Subject: program termination and return value
References: <df19e346.0410081220.1776fc9e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4166f9a7$0$17829$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

On 8 Oct 2004 13:20:51 -0700, Scott Carlson <scarlson at omnimn.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Python novice.  (But getting better.)
> 
> How do I terminate/quit my program during execution if I reach a point
> where I desire to terminate the program?
    raise SystemExit
> 
> How do I pass back an integer indicating (as example) an error number?
    raise SystemExit(2)   # error number 2
> 
> If I then do this, what do I put on the last line of my program to
> return (for example) a zero, indicating success?
   noting : an equivalent to sys.exit(0) or raise SystemExit(0) is
   automatically generated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Scott
   You can also use :
   import sys
   sys.exit(0)

   on the python prompt :
   import atexit
   help(atexit)

   good reading!


From xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net  Tue Oct 26 17:02:16 2004
From: xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 21:02:16 GMT
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
References: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
	<mailman.5513.1098804135.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3Svfd.3090$kM.900@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns958EEA9028DD7PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.73>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> said :

> I got email about 6 months ago asking if it is okay to include my
> sb_culler program with the SpamBayes source code.  I haven't checked
> to see if that actually happened.

I just did : it's been added to CVS on June 11, same code as on the Wiki, 
but apparently not updated since, and not included in the contribs for 
the 1.0 release.

I already have a couple of naive questions :

* is the documented change on line 348 enough to run the script with a  
current version of Spambayes ?

* does use of sb_culler contribute to the training of the Spambayes db, 
or does it assume that it is kept current independently (by means of 
normal use by a mail client through the POP3 proxy for instance) ?
 
> As written it's designed for a programmer to use.  You had to
> edit code to change options.

That's OK with me, as long as the code is in python :)
 
> I've added a few new features since then, like reloading the
> good_emails file if there are changes.  Want to add another to
> whitelist based on domain, and to remove emails with a given
> subject, like "Sprava nebola dorucena".  Perhaps I'll update
> the wiki afterwards.

Well, if any of these new additions are available for outside use, I'd 
sure appreciate a copy of the updated script...

TIA,
fp

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From zzzeek at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 11:59:42 2004
From: zzzeek at gmail.com (mike bayer)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 08:59:42 -0700
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<pu3mn0hpnqn4shs0cofgfa8i2gu61mb5pd@4ax.com>
	<roy-1F2491.23240723102004@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <d5ba902.0410270759.2232c82b@posting.google.com>

hi all -

might I add what I think is a valuable link to this discussion:

http://www.myghty.org/

it is my own application largely based around the model of Perl's
HTML::Mason.  It addresses specifically the performance, architecture,
and template-flexibility issues of some of the other packages I have
seen mentioned here.  I think its particular combination of strong
featureset, smooth performance and templating style makes it one of
the best things out there for building python-based dynamic websites
as well as content-generation systems.


From d+pylist at nospamplease.trit.org  Mon Oct 18 21:23:37 2004
From: d+pylist at nospamplease.trit.org (Dima Dorfman)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:23:37 +0000
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041019012337.GA13634@trit.org>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> If the issue is strictly one of whether it's worth somehow making
>     for x in y: yield x
> terser (by a new kw, combination of kw, and/or punctuation) I guess we 
> can discuss that (I just don't see the gain to offset the price of 
> introducing new syntax and one more language thing to learn for 
> Pythonistas and newcomers to Python).

I find myself writing a lot of recursive generators, and a while ago I
implemented this:

  yield *other

to mean:

  for x in other:
    yield x

No new keywords, and the asterisk is already used for a similar
purpose (iterator expansion) in the function call syntax.

Thoughts? "Neat!" or "Yuck!"?


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Oct 25 07:15:50 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:15:50 +0200
Subject: Reading XML like Python!
References: <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <clin96$hgo$04$1@news.t-online.com>

John wrote:

> I have to read a lot of XML for my upcoming project.
> XML is hard on my eyes.
> Is there some sort of converter that converts XML to something more
> eye friendly? maybe like Python? I have seen restructured text. There
> is a paper at EuroPython 2004 that seems to do something similar.

I used yaml - actually its not exactly what you asked for, but a different
way of producing markup, which is much more friendly to the eye, and as
whitespace is significant, resembles python in that respect. I'm not aware
of xml2yaml converters, but I haven't looked so there might be some.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 15:04:00 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:04:00 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4886.1097691293.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>	<slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<10mo6q66oi0kj04@corp.supernews.com>	<slrncmplmh.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<10mqr0rlj9h6r69@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4886.1097691293.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10mqus4rmmtl286@corp.supernews.com>

Cliff Wells wrote:

>Hi Jeff,
>
>Jumping in way late in this thread, I'll toss in my pennies and say I
>still use lambda fairly regularly in one place, and it just happens to
>be the very place where I learned of lambda in the first place: event
>handlers for GUI programming.  I first learned the technique in Tkinter
>circa 1.5.2 and still use it in wxPython.  It isn't strictly necessary,
>but given the already cluttered nature of GUI programming, I'm pretty
>reluctant to toss in four or five more names every time I want a
>complicated event handler to get called with slightly different
>arguments. Basically I use it as a poor-man's curry (if I understand
>currying correctly, I've only seen conversations about it on this list
>and that's the impression I was left with: that it's a way of providing
>variations in the default arguments to a function).
>  
>

That's my understanding of currying, as well, and I too know it only 
from discussion on this list. ;)  But I recall that Alex Martelli, some 
time ago, provided a wonderful explanation of currying and a recipe or 
two for how it can be generically accomplished.  (Before that 
explanation, I'd had no idea where the term came from and had been 
trying to work out how it coud be etymologically related to, say, 
currying horses... ;) )  I believe that his solution involved callable 
class instances that store the function to be called and the known 
parameters as attributes.  That *was* quite a while ago (possibly even 
pre-2.2), though, so I don't know whether it'd still be the most 
effective recipe... and my memory about it is a bit flakey.

>As I know you're a wxPython user as well, I'd be curious to know how you
>approach this particular problem.
>  
>

To be honest, I've rarely felt the need to do much currying in my 
wxPython (or other) applications.  Maybe it's a design thing -- I tend 
to make every non-trivial component I use be a custom class/subclass, 
even if I'm only going to use it in one place, and it seems appropriate 
to have methods on that class which encapsulate its desired  behavior to 
the point where currying isn't necessary.  The closest I've come to 
needing currying is handled neatly by wxCallAfter(), which takes a 
function and a list of arguments to pass to that function.  Then again, 
almost everything I've done so far has been fairly simple (as in low 
complexity, not necessarily easy...), so it's possible that I'm the odd 
one here...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From no at spam.please  Sun Oct 10 19:37:33 2004
From: no at spam.please (Doug Holton)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:37:33 -0500
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <MNCdnR9olpAhWvTcRVn-pg@comcast.com>

Istvan Albert wrote:
> "Python-like" means very little. 

Actually, it means the syntax is almost identical to python's syntax.

> Make it run python code
> then you'll see a lot more interest from this group.

Like I said in the first sentence of my earlier message:
"I thought I'd share it here since there has been so much interest for 
similar projects like IronPython."


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sat Oct 30 10:36:38 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:36:38 +0100
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <Z8Mgd.8520$Es2.172559@twister2.libero.it>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<Z8Mgd.8520$Es2.172559@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <cm08tq$9cd$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

gabriele renzi wrote:
> well, they failed to implement all of the tests but those implemented 
> actually run faster than  CPython.

Just saying, they said they would deliver it by a certain date and they 
didn't. I understand the team is mainly made up of volunteers so I am 
sympathetic, but I will still believe their claims only when they prove 
them. :)

> Anyway they are at 0.1.1 or something like that. There is time to become 
> faster or to disappear completely, I guess

There is also time for CPython or IronPython to become faster during 
that time.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 09:23:34 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:23:34 -0300
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <1gl6qcq.kcu4qi1qojaksN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aJt8d.3299$M05.285@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6qcq.kcu4qi1qojaksN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904100506232b6bee20@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:33:52 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > I was very used to workspaces back in the days of APL and I still miss
> > > them.  Why is it good not to have them?
> >
> > I've never used such a system so this is only second hand.
> > I recall hearing that in Smalltalk people end up customizing
> > an image, which makes is harder for different people to work
> > together on the same project.
> 
> As I recall, in IBM Research we tended to share a common workspace
> across one project, though each of us could and generally did have their
> own 'sandbox' workspace ``hived off'' the main one -- not very different
> from the situation with any typical CVS / SVN / etc - controlled project
> (though, if my memory serves, the workspace functionalities were skimpy
> compared to today's typical versioning systems -- in terms of branching,
> tagging, and other advanced stuff).  Imports/exports of sources for some
> part of the workspace were commonly used; few of us had at home either
> computers or terminals capable of good APL work (really needed a special
> keyboard...), so a typical way to work evenings or weekends without
> bothering to drive to the office would be to export some subtree of
> sources, print it out (with a good APL-capable printer;-), and work with
> a pencil on the printout.  Not very different from what one could do
> with file, really; but in addition the workspace automatically kept
> track of interactive sessions, with the ability to restart right from
> where you left off, and also to export enough source code
> _automatically_ to reconstruct the current situation somewhere else.

Now that you mention workspaces -- it took me a while to figure out
why I longed so much for a good IDE for Python, and the answer (in my
particular case) was not the glitzy GUI builder, but the ability to
stop/resume working on a project exactly as I left it. It's something
that I got used to in Delphi, so that was my main gripe then. But it's
**far** from a real workspace. The closest thing, in my experience,
and besides toy Scheme and Smalltalk projects, was the ability to save
sessions in X, but it was nothing to write home about -- it failed way
too often, and not all apps would support it. My current dream
scenario is to install VMWare, with the ability to 'freeze' the
virtual machine and resume working whenever I want, and to find
everything *exactly* where I left. That would be perfect.

But... interestingly enough, I'm having a few issues with persistence
in Python sessions that may (or not) show that workspaces do not work
as well in Python as they do in other environments. I may be the one
at fault here, but anyway...

I normally have a PythonWin window open, that I use to test small
blocks of code interactively. It's a 'workspace' of sorts -- it's
already instrumented with a few modules and convenience functions for
debugging. In some situations, I found that I can't just force the
reloading of modules that I've changed. In some cases, doing the
reload() trick just doesn't work (specially if another module that was
previously loaded, or executed, imports just a few names using from
<module> import <something>). I end up having to manually delete the
module from the sys.modules, or from some other namespace; in many
cases, I have to restart the entire Python session.

In essence -- and if I remember anything from my Smalltalk short
experience -- it's much easier maintain a consistent environment in
Smalltalk. It's partly due to the excellent class browser that is
integrated into the environment, but it's mainly due to the very way
the class hierachy is organized. It's always possible to know what
symbols are loaded; it's also easier to delete or redefine individual
symbols. PythonWin doesn't provide a class browser with the same level
of control, but I believe that the problem is deeper. For some reason,
I can never be sure if I've found all references to old modules or
symbols, and then I have to start a fresh session. It's something that
I'm still exploring, but for now, I have just to resort to frequent
Python session restarts just to make sure that all symbols are
'fresh'.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct  2 19:10:54 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:10:54 -0700
Subject: Wiki on Python and Web Programming?
References: <971il0hgt4ubrcd396figprevcvmh5epfn@4ax.com>
	<41590A07.EA69FFEF@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <f9dul09tvpie1qa3cfturqj6l2c8o6mp9o@4ax.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

>Tim Roberts wrote:
>
>> Isn't there a wiki somewhere that compares and contrasts the various
>> web architectures available for Python?
>> 
>> I've realized that I have built web sites based on at least 4 of the
>> popular contenders, and my experiences might be valuable to others.  I
>> thought I remembered a comparison wiki, but I can't find it now.
>
>	http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming

Thanks for this link -- that's exacctly the one I meant.  I've now added my
page to this wiki:

   http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebSolutionComparison

It includes my own personal experiences with several of the popular Python
web solutions.  Your comments and criticisms are welcome; that's the fun of
a wiki.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 06:59:01 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 03:59:01 -0700
Subject: weblib
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410080259.4e8e729f@posting.google.com>

Anyone know what's happened to weblib ?

An interesting looking project with helper classes for web
applications.

However the project page http://weblib.sourceforge.net appears to not
exists and the MoinMoin page for it has no links to any downloads....
http://webappworkshop.com

I've actually found a copy from a debian repository :
http://download.at.kde.org/opsys/linux/debian/pool/main/p/python-weblib/
I wonder if anyone knows what has happened with it.

Regards,


Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Sun Oct 31 03:33:00 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:33:00 -0500
Subject: spell checking
Message-ID: <4184A33C.8010903@kzoo.edu>

I was just curious if there were any spell checker python modules around 
that can guess at what the user meant to type in. I wrote up a quick 
function that splices a string up into bigrams and then checks how many 
bigrams are identical to a given word, which I think is how google does 
it. But support for trigrams etc. could be added, so I'm curious if 
anyone out there has done something more. Here's the script:

def StringsSimilarity(str1, str2):
    """Divides the two strings into bigrams and reports
    what percentage of them are equal"""
    str1 = str1.strip().lower()
    str2 = str2.strip().lower()
    bigramStr1 = []
    bigramStr2 = []
    currentList = bigramStr1
    i = 0
    j = 0
   
    # Empty versus non empty strings are never similar
    if not (str1 and str2):
        return 0
   
    # 100% match if equal
    if str1 == str2:
        return 1.0

    # Make strings equal length, simplifies things
    len1 = len(str1)
    len2 = len(str2)
   
    if len1 > len2:
        str2 = str2 + " "*(len1-len2)
    elif len2 > len1:
        str1 = str1 + " "*(len2-len1)
       
    len1 = len(str1)
    len2 = len(str2)
   
    currentString = str1
   
    # Generate bigrams
    while j < 2:   
        i = 0
        while i < len1:
            if i+1 >= len1:
                currentList.append(currentString[i])
            else:
                currentList.append(currentString[i] + currentString[i+1])
               
            i += 2
       
        j += 1
        currentList = bigramStr2
        currentString = str2
   
    similarity = 0
   
    for i in range(len(bigramStr1)):
        if bigramStr1[i] == bigramStr2[i]:
            similarity += 1.0
           
    if similarity == 0:
        return 0
   
    return similarity/len(bigramStr1)
       
def StringsSimilar(str1, str2):
    """Using StringSimilarity, decides if the two
    strings score is good enough, 50%, to be
    considered similar"""
    return StringsSimilarity(str1, str2) >= 0.50



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 21 19:34:29 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:34:29 -0400
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
 exception
In-Reply-To: <2e37dc1.0410211330.5d370e7@posting.google.com>
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
	<cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<4176836E.4000507@holdenweb.com>
	<cl64rp$4kt$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<1glzcek.6eh93i3wp035N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cl7k5o$kbh$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<2e37dc1.0410211330.5d370e7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <TMXdd.8975$SW3.6723@fed1read01>

Vinay Sajip wrote:
>>The only problematic case is a tuple as only argument, everything else 
>>should work. So there are three possible solutions for backward compatibility:
>>
>>1) document the change :o)
>>2) check for a dictionary as first argument
>>3) check for a tuple as first argument
>>
>>Since the tuple is the only problematic thing you could hand in, I 
>>personally feel a preference for making that the "exception" (i.e. I vote 
>>for 3).
>>
> 
> 
> I would prefer (2), as the change is catering for the specific use
> case of a single dictionary argument. This is what is currently in
> CVS.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Vinay Sajip

Couldn't we just use keyword arguments to indicate dictionary-style 
substitution? That seems to make a simpler, more elegant solution to me:

if args:
	msg = msg % args
else:
	msg = msg % kwargs

Or am I (as I so often do) missing something?

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Oct 25 08:13:30 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:13:30 +0200
Subject: collision detection and penetration depth
References: <0jopn01agpcmadln9btclb6m4klh0venmp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cliqld$ou$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> So, my questions are: Is there an existing Python module that offers
> exactly what we need? If not, what should be my course of action:
> 1. Try to get a working .exe out of the FreeSOLID package (it has some
> sample apps) and passing args on command line?
> 2. Try to reproduce the needed code in Python (without really
> understanding what I'm doing *ouch*)?
> 3. Try to make the FreeSOLID functions usable in my Python scripts?
> (This would be embedding/extending, right? Haven't done that before,
> either. And it seems there's a lot of c involved again.)


I've been working on a freeesolid binding for pyhthon - it has been pretty
much complete, and to create it was a piece of cake - I did it in two days,
while learning how to actually do it. At least under linux, with a decent
compiler available and the distutils at your hands, its no big deal.

I'd be glad to give the binding to you - but unfortunately, a hd-crash has
blown it into oblivion.

And in the meantime, I discovered that there exists some other lib that
actually was better suited for my problems: The Open Dynamics Engine. It
also featurs a collision detection amongst other features, and there exist
even two bindings for python: PyODE is one of them, the other I didn't try.

Maybe that helps you,

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From pythonista at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 20:26:31 2004
From: pythonista at gmail.com (Sean Blakey)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:26:31 -0700
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
In-Reply-To: <1098744099.17059.2.camel@spearmint.heaven>
References: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<1098744099.17059.2.camel@spearmint.heaven>
Message-ID: <372a7624041025172649e36eaf@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:41:39 +0200, "@gmail.com Sylvain Defresne
<"sdefresne> wrote:
> > So I tried being specific:
> > os.popen3("C:\\Program Files\\ds9\\ds9")
> > This also fails and the program that is not found is "C:\Program",
> > suggesting that the space in "Program Files" is causing the problem. The
> > following failed in exactly the same way:
> > os.popen3("C:\\Program\ Files\\ds9\\ds9")
> >
> > Any suggestions?
> 
> I don't have a windows to test, but does the following works (that is
> protecting the space from the shell by enclosing the path in double
> quote) ?
> 
>     os.popen3('"C:\\Program Files\\ds9\\ds9.exe"')
> 
> --
> keiichi
> 
> 
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
Sean Blakey
Saint of Mild Amusement, Evil Genius, Big Geek
Python/Java/C++/C(Unix/Windows/Palm/Web) developer
email: pythonista at gmail.com
quine = ['print "quine =",quine,"; exec(quine[0])"'] ; exec(quine[0])


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Wed Oct 20 18:37:22 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:37:22 +0200
Subject: How do I check if Telnet session is open?
In-Reply-To: <1098311316.261193.274170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1098222810.359040.241080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<1098311316.261193.274170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4176e8a2$0$21106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Mudcat wrote:
> Let me narrow the focus a little since I've found out how this is
> usually done. I'm attempting to solve the problem using select. However
> I can't get the select function to block until something's available.
> Here is my code. I am running on windows.
[...]
>>>>w, r, e = select.select([], [sock, sock2], [] )

The select call waits until you can *write* to the sockets.
It should read:

w, r, e = select.select([sock, sock2], [], [] )

--Irmen


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 15:51:58 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:51:58 -0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <20041018120633.0A3D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041018104036.0A2B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<2EE12B0A-212F-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com>
	<20041018120633.0A3D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <864d37090410181251629f5e54@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:20:46 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> > > I think the syntax looks good, but as per a thread in python-list, you
> > > cannot discover the order of class variables by any solution (metaclass
> > > or otherwise), due to the fact that they become part of the class
> > > dictionary; which is arbitrarily unordered.
> > >
> > > If ordering is important to a user, one could have an optional
> > > __order__
> > > attribute that gives the list of items in-order.
> >
> > That's not quite true.  TypedAttribute instances and iniSection's
> > __new__ could have serial numbers.

TypedAttributes store their own sequence numbers using a simple
counter. Bengt Richter also came up with a clever trick to retrieve a
list from the code object itself (using the inspect module and the
co_names member). It's very powerful, but it can't check all
situations, but I'm sure that it would work for most real world
situations.

As far as INI files are concerned, order is good but not essential. It
helps people that are going to read, or manually edit the config file,
and avoids some surprised such as in "what has happened here?" when
things seems to appear "out of order".
 
> I'm not saying that they can't be numbered, I'm saying that one cannot
> discover the ordering of assignment of attr1 and attr2 in the following:
> 
> class foo:
>     attr1 = value1
>     attr2 = value2
> 
> If there is a mechanism for discovering the original ordering of those
> assignments, there are a group of users in c.l.py who would like to know,
> and Carlos' seemingly non-existant implementation could also use it.

I took part in that discussion. We found some a few alternatives to
handle this problem. None of them are 100% percent transparent _and_
reliable; you had to choose here between the two options. But for
things such as ini files, things don't look that bad.

As for the code: I don't have a host for it, and I just felt that I
shouldn't post it in the python-dev list without some proper care :-)
But I'm going to do it as soon as I have a 'good enough'
implementation that include the write code. BTW I'll move this
discussion to the main python list. If anyone cares enough about it,
I'll move it back into python-dev.
 
> Please advise,
>  - Josiah
> 
> 


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sun Oct 24 23:45:27 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:45:27 -0700
Subject: Mindboggling Scope Issue
In-Reply-To: <RqCdnVhR-M5g0eHcRVn-hg@powergate.ca>
References: <200410241346.12230.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
	<clha6h$s7d$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<mailman.5397.1098659777.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RqCdnVhR-M5g0eHcRVn-hg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1098675927.5693.77.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 20:46 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
> James Stroud wrote:

> > Please bare with me as I have seldom asked for help with my code, so I may do 
>           ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Now there's a Freudian strip if I ever saw one.  ;-)

*puts clothes back on*

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Oct 12 14:47:34 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:47:34 -0700
Subject: From dictionary keys to variables
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410112320.2ed908d0@posting.google.com>
References: <6f402501.0410110433.172a6c26@posting.google.com>
	<10mme8ars7bdaeb@corp.supernews.com>
	<6f402501.0410112320.2ed908d0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10mo9hbq7c2c60c@corp.supernews.com>

Michael Foord wrote:

>Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message news:<10mme8ars7bdaeb at corp.supernews.com>...
>  
>
>>Any reason why it's necessary to define variables instead of just using 
>>the dict?  You're probably not really saving anything by doing this...  
>>there *might* be a slight savings in typing if you use the names 
>>numerous times, but directly accessing the dictionary makes it clearer 
>>where your values are coming from.  And dict lookups are fast, so unless 
>>you're using these valuables repeatedly inside a tight loop, you won't 
>>get significant speed savings.  (If you *are* using some inside a tight 
>>loop, then it's sensible to hoist the lookup out of the loop, but don't 
>>do this until you know that that loop is a significant source of 
>>slowdown -- as they say, premature optimization is the root of all evil.)
>>
>>    
>>
>
>It's not really optimisation. There are two factors, I write lot's of
>little scripts that pull there paths/config options out of a config
>file in this way. With something like the above or 'globals()[entry]'
>I can just cut and paste a chunk of code. That means I can add/change
>the variable names (which correspond to keywords in the config file)
>by just changing the name once in the 'valuelist'. I can then access
>the variable directly without having to keep *typing* the
>config['..... bit.. The only optimisation is on my wrist !!
>  
>

Oof.  Don't cut and paste code if you can avoid it.  Instead, make 
utility modules and import them.  Much *much* safer.  Every time you cut 
and paste, you run the risk of forgetting to rename something, or 
copying a name that isn't defined in your new script, or any number of 
other minor little glitches.  (I do much of my workday programming in an 
environment that doesn't support modularization well at all, and we have 
no real options for code reuse other than to either cut and paste, or 
retype from scratch.  I know first-hand just how easy it is to make 
mistakes when cutting and pasting, because I do it all the freakin' 
time....  bleah!  I *so* wish I could use Python for all of that...)

And really, if you're trading readability for typing ease, you're 
getting a bad deal.  You're very likely to read that code many more 
times than you're going to type it, so a slight addition to the 
difficulty of reading and understanding it will soon make up for a bit 
of extra typing.  More importantly, if there's any chance that anyone 
*else* will ever look at your code, it's much nicer for *them* to not 
have to figure out how the heck this variable got here...   And even if 
your code is something that you expect to be a solitary project that'll 
never be distributed to anyone else, it's still a good idea to get in 
the habit of writing readable code.  If nothing else, you never know 
when you might want to post segments of it to c.l.py for 
assistance/advice. ;)

(All of this being strictly my personal opinion, of course, which is 
probably worth about as much as you paid for it....)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Tue Oct 12 04:54:58 2004
From: jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:54:58 +0200
Subject: documentation files - where to install ?
Message-ID: <2t1kf1F1r2ehtU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

when I say e.g.  help('try') in an interactive Python (or idle) session I
get

Sorry, topic and keyword documentation is not available because the Python
HTML documentation files could not be found.  If you have installed them,
please set the environment variable PYTHONDOCS to indicate their location.

So, what's the canonical installation location for the HTML documentation files
(if I don't want to use the environment variable PYTHONDOCS)

Many thanks for hint,

Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Thu Oct 14 21:48:42 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:48:42 -0400
Subject: Using pickle with setattr
In-Reply-To: <tmFbd.3426$6k2.3325@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <416CA456.8070409@kzoo.edu>	<mailman.4976.1097793765.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tmFbd.3426$6k2.3325@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <416F2C7A.4020705@kzoo.edu>

Sorry I wasn't clear, I didn't even realize you could simply assign 
stuff to instance variables without them being formerly declared, I'm 
still in the C mindset :P Taking this into account, I asked if my 
question was stupid ;)

I didn't test this myself because there are alot of different types of 
things I could add to a class instance, list, file objects, etc. and it 
wasn't clear what would work from my limited ability to interpret the 
pickle.py. I'll take a better look at the docs next time around.

Thanks for the help,

dataangel

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> dataangel wrote:
>
>>> I'm wondering whether or not the standard Pickle module will handle 
>>> this or not -- will an object pickle correctly if it has methods 
>>> that are not in its original class definition?
>>
>
> Instances pickle references to class by name, not by value.
> If you have restore to a class with the same name but different
> semantics then it may or may not work.  It depends on how it
> was coded.
>
>>> That I'm not planning to do -- I'm changing the attributes of the 
>>> object itself.
>>
>
> Changing the attributes of the instance or the class?  The former
> goes into the pickle'd dictionary, the latter does not.
>
>>> If it won't, what are my options? Also, is there a module available 
>>> for saving the complete state of an object such that it is loadable 
>>> without the python source for the original class?
>>
>
> No.  Consider
>
> import os
>
> class Spam(object):
>   my_os = os
>
> How can pickle save all of 'os'?  Or consider
>
> class Read:
>   infile = open("/etc/passwd")
>   def __init__(self):
>     self.line = self.infile.readline()
>
> File objects can't be pickled.
>
>
>> I'm flabbergasted. Nobody on the python mailing list knows? I've 
>> stumped the experts? ;)
>>
>> Or maybe my question is stupid for somer reason? :P
>
>
> You weren't clear about what you wanted.  It's hard for us
> to read your mind.  You could have gotten some of these answers
> by reading the docs at and around
>   http://www.python.org/doc/lib/node65.html
>
> and through experimentation.
>                 Andrew
>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 30 14:44:08 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:44:08 +0200
Subject: Enumerate question: Inner looping like in Perl
References: <4183d256$0$3665$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
Message-ID: <1gmhld0.ya30wbysglfgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Pekka Niiranen <pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com> wrote:
    ...

> for i, row in enumerate(contents):
>       row[i] = something
>       if matcherSTART.search(row):
>               "Oops! how to advance 'i' and 'row' untill:
>               if matcherEND.search(row):
>                       continue

You take an explicit iterator and call its .next() method (or
equivalently use an inner for on the iterator, if that is sufficient, as
it appears to be in this case -- see later).

> Is there enumerate() hack that I am missing or
> should I go back to idiom?:
> 
> for i in range(len(contents)):
>       if matcherSTART.search(row[i]):
>               while not matcherEND.search(row[i]):
>                       i = i + 1
>                       continue

this 'idiom' won't do what you want; i is set again to the very next
value, ignoring all modifications in the loop's body, when execution
gets back to the loop's header.

Here, probably, is what you want:

looper = iter(enumerate(contents))
for i, row in looper:
    row[i] = something
    if matcherSTART.search(row):
        for i, row in looper:
            if matcherEND.search(row):
                break


Alex


From golux at comcast.net  Wed Oct  6 22:34:54 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 22:34:54 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <iuqdnbKjNa7tAvncRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<10m8hf0rkv5m000@corp.supernews.com>	<2sj4u9F1keh1uU1@uni-berlin.de>	<10m8sc4oud9h4e3@corp.supernews.com>
	<iuqdnbKjNa7tAvncRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <4164AB4E.1040605@comcast.net>

Peter L Hansen wrote:
> Jeff Shannon wrote:
> 
>> Daniel Ellison wrote:
>>
>>> "Oh, the humanity!" is a direct quote from the radio host covering 
>>> the arrival (and subsequent demise) of the Hindenburg at New Jersey's 
>>> Lakehurst Naval Air Station in 1937.  
> 
>> ... I do 
>> still find myself wondering how many users of the phrase realize that 
>> it *is* a misspeaking ...)
> 
> Actually, I don't believe it was a mis-speaking [...]  "Humanity" has several
> meanings, the second of which (here looking at Webster's via dict.org)
> refers to "mankind collectively".  Said radio host was actually
> moved to cry out at the loss of life, the humanity, that he was
> witnessing.  Or so I've always assumed...

Exactly so -- and rather obviously the intended meaning.

Steve


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Fri Oct  1 04:23:13 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:23:13 +0100
Subject: Search and Replace in a text.
In-Reply-To: <06opl01rgc7d31l1efuc8ce7apgj9g1dq4@4ax.com>
References: <06opl01rgc7d31l1efuc8ce7apgj9g1dq4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cjj45n$q41$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Dong Ge wrote:

> I'm a new beginner of Python. I want to convet  "Text 1" to "Text 2"
> below. How to do it?

Sorry, you're going to have to describe your problem a little more fully 
before I can help you. Otherwise I can only guess.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From flab at large.net  Thu Oct 14 02:43:57 2004
From: flab at large.net (flab ba)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:43:57 -0700
Subject: Quixote vs mod_python
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.14.06.43.56.912668@large.net>

Hello:

I am new to web app programming, but need to create a web app. I would
like to do it in Python

After extensive googling, reading news groups, blogs, and outdated /
incomplete "web app shoot outs" that don't seem to come to any conclusion,
I came across a number of alternatives, but my limited knowledge in this
field prevents me from seeing the virtues of one framework over the other.
The ones I saw were:

* Quixote (with mod_python or SCGI)
* straight up mod_python (the un-framework)
* Webware
* CherryPy
* Nevow
* Zope
* Snakelets

People had lots of good things to say about Quixote. Nevow looks
promising, but I don't grok it with its limited docs. Plus I get nervous
when there is only one developer working on it. I also get nervous about
Twisted. Zope is a bit heavyweight for what I need, I think.

CherryPy looks interesting, but I'm discouraged by the code-generator.
Supposedly CherryPy2 does away with this - but there has been no release
yet.

So, I'm trying to decide between "straight up" mod_python in conjunction
with something like Cheetah for templating (mod_python's PSP looks ugly),
or using Quixote.

Can somebody sway me one way or the other ? What would Quixote give me
that mod_python + Cheetah doesn't?


Thanks very much.
-Flab



From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Oct  5 03:32:34 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:32:34 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41624ded$0$235$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

> I can't believe you answered all of them, thank you.   Sorry for pissing 
> folks off over here.

It's no biggie and will quickly be forgotten, but try and lean back a 
moment, and contemplate what you are asking for in your posting.

You are basically asking for a report of Python specialised for your 
needs. This a is a lot of work for anybody who would choose to answer.

Most of the questions are easy to find the answers to, by just browsing 
the Python documentation. So it seems that you couldn't be bothered to 
do any research yourself, but you are asking the newsgroup to do it for 
you and write it up.

That is why it seems rude.

generally you will get better answers if it seems that you have made 
some effort yourself before asking.

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 27 08:02:47 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:02:47 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410261944.3b1f89e6@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<_aadnTCr7PWKYeHcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>
	<940ee3e8.0410251927.38347d92@posting.google.com>
	<Z6kfd.18413$SW3.4432@fed1read01>
	<940ee3e8.0410261944.3b1f89e6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <GcMfd.2$uN3.0@lakeread04>

kartik wrote:

> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<Z6kfd.18413$SW3.4432 at fed1read01>...
> 
>>kartik wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<_aadnTCr7PWKYeHcRVn-rg at powergate.ca>...
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>Do you feel strongly enough about the quality of your code to write
>>>>automated tests for it?  Or are you just hoping that one tiny class
>>>>of potential bugs will be caught for you by this feature of the
>>>>language?
>>>
>>>
>>>1)catching overflow bugs in the language itself frees u from writing
>>>overflow tests.
>>
>>That seems to me to be a bit like saying you don't need to do any 
>>engineering calculations for your bridge because you'll find out if it's 
>>not strong enough when it falls down.
> 
> 
> i was inaccurate. what i meant was that overflow errors provide a
> certain amount of sanity checking in the absence of explicit testing -
> & do u check every assignment for bounds?
> 
If limiting the range of integers is critical to a program's function 
then I will happily make range assertions. Frankly I can't remember when 
the last overflow error came up in my code.
> 
>>>2)no test (or test suite) can catch all errors, so language support 4
>>>error detection is welcome.
>>
>>Yes, but you appear to feel that an arbitrary limit on the size of 
>>integers will be helpful [...] Relying on hardware overflows as error 
>>detection is pretty poor, really.
> 
> 
> i'm not relying on overflow errors to ensure correctness. it's only a
> mechanism that sometimes catches bugs - & that's valuable.
> 
But your original assertion was that the switch to unbounded integers 
should be reversed because of this. Personally I think it's far more 
valuable to be able to ignore the arbitrary limitations of supporting 
hardware.
> 
>>>3)overflow detection helps when u dont have automated tests 4 a
>>>particular part of your program.
>>>
>>
>> But writing such tests would help much more.
> 
> 
> agreed, but do u test your code so thoroughly that u can guarantee
> your code is bug-free. till then, overflow errors help.
> 
No they don't.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From andrew.stuart at xse.com.au  Tue Oct 12 23:21:03 2004
From: andrew.stuart at xse.com.au (andrew blah)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 20:21:03 -0700
Subject: Secure Python code - volunteers for code review?
Message-ID: <1097637663.543580.126100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Hello

I have recently released catchmail - a free (BSD license) open source
Python utility www.users.bigpond.net.au/mysite/catchmail.htm

This script processes in and outbound emails and stores them to a
database.

The source code is here:
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mysite/current/catchmail.py

It's not a very long script (about 300 lines or so).

I'm quite concerned however about security and I'd like catchmail to be
as secure as possible.  What can be done to verify the security of this
script?

I would really value it if any security aware Python guru was able to
review the code from a security perspective.  It would be good to
ensure that python or sql code planted in an email or an attachment
could not execute and break out of the script - or that any other
security issue might arise.  But how - I don't have anything near the
level of Python expertise required to properly assess this script for
security risk?  If someone has the time to do a code review it would be
much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Andrew Stuart
andrew dot stuart at xse dot com dot au



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Oct 12 14:01:06 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:01:06 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <10mo6q66oi0kj04@corp.supernews.com>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

>Op 2004-10-11, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
>  
>
>>Lambdas are hard to read, because they're significantly different, 
>>syntactically, from any other construct in the language
>>    
>>
>
>I didn't find them so. On the other hand I find having to come up
>with a name for a function can be very inconvenient and not worth
>the trouble. If python wants functions to be full fledged objects,
>is needs some way to have unnamed functions, just as you can have
>unnamed lists, numbers, instances etc.
>
>Can you imaging the protest, from people if it would be decide
>that no unnamed entities van be used. If you want to use a number
>or a list, as an argument you first have to name it and then use
>the name as argument. Well the reason for having anonymous numbers
>and lists is the same reason for having anonymous functions.
>  
>

Functions are at a different level of granularity than numbers and 
lists.  Anonymity makes sense for numbers and lists; it makes less sense 
for collections of numbers and lists; and it makes still less sense for 
organized collections of numbers, lists, and operations thereon, which 
are structured in a meaningful way to express some (part of an) 
algorithm.  Similarly, I don't expect each line of code to have an 
individual name, but once I collect lines of code into a file, I 
certainly *do* expect to name that file, even if the file is only one or 
two lines long.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From jack at performancedrivers.com  Tue Oct 19 12:52:52 2004
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:52:52 -0400
Subject: Recursive function to develop permutations
In-Reply-To: <RiZcd.840$5i5.671@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <RiZcd.840$5i5.671@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20041019165252.GC21693@performancedrivers.com>

On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 12:34:57AM +0000, Steve Goldman wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to come up with a way to develop all n-length permutations of a
> given list of values.  The short function below seems to work, but I can't
> help thinking there's a better way.  Not being a computer scientist, I find
> recursive functions to be frightening and unnatural.  I'd appreciate if
> anyone can tell me the pythonic idiom to accomplish this.
> 
> ###START CODE###
[snip]

Combinatorics (permutations, combinations, etc) get golfed (shortest/fastest)
on c.l.py a couple times a year.  Check groups.google.com for some solutions.
If you want fast, try probstat.sf.net which does some combinatorics in C with
a python wrapper.  disclosure: I wrote it.

-Jack


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct 26 19:46:34 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:46:34 GMT
Subject: Yet Another Command Line Parser
In-Reply-To: <1gmafuh.1ahlu0w17i82akN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <5c4tn0latkspkrrlj8r66qj7h35qbpies0@4ax.com>
	<qExfd.3218$kM.28@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gmafuh.1ahlu0w17i82akN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ulBfd.8071$KJ6.3884@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex:
> Not to defend exec (ugly thing it is), but in this case I'm not sure
> what the security hole would be.

In some sense we're both right, or wrong.  Security depends on
the system.  If someone saw that code, found it interesting, added
it to a script, which passed through a few people to someone
who uses it as part of a public service, then it's possible a
malicious user of that service may be able to execute arbitrary
code on the server.


> If I enter that tricky commandline at
> a shell prompt, it will be just as if i had executed the 'ls -l' at the
> same shell prompt; weird, but where is the huge security hole?  It's not
> as if there were setuid shell scripts (is there...?  I sure hope not!-).

In that environment there are fewer problems.

> but how are commandline arguments 'untrusted'...?

I had to think about that for a bit.  Much of the work I do
(for money or otherwise) ends up being called by some sort
of web interface or is the interface to such code.  Much of
the data I use can come from untrusted sources.  So I've
developed a programming habit of being distrustful of any
data I get, even if it's from me.

As a consequence that also means I don't need to think about
the multiple levels in the system.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct  5 22:20:57 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 22:20:57 -0400
Subject: Job postings
In-Reply-To: <41634A6E.D0A49DCD@yahoo.com>
References: <41634A6E.D0A49DCD@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <oII8d.291847$4o.143077@fed1read01>

Jive Dadson wrote:

> Where can I post a job description for a Python programmer?  He or she
> would have to know both application programming in Python, and should be
> able to port Python to a "friendly" operating system.
> 
> Thanks.

You should just be able to email "jobs at python.org" as described in 
http://www.python.org/Jobs-howto.html. See 
http://www.python.org/Jobs-howto.html to understand how the listing will 
appear. Good luck.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From paolo_veronelli at yahoo.it  Thu Oct 21 10:48:34 2004
From: paolo_veronelli at yahoo.it (Paolo Veronelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:48:34 +0200
Subject: how I restart a process from itself?
Message-ID: <4177CC42.9090508@yahoo.it>

I want to add a sensible address to my nevow server, so it has to launch 
an executable that stop itself and restart it.

I tried os.execl('restart','') but I have a format error and I do not 
understand the manual page.

thanks for help




From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 17:35:45 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:35:45 GMT
Subject: Retrieving the full path of Unix apps
In-Reply-To: <cjv2lc$pr4$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <cjuu5v$2n7$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>
	<4163013c$0$59513$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<cjv0i1$3ti$2@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>
	<cjv2lc$pr4$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <RsE8d.3642$UP1.2441@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Michael Hoffman wrote:
>  You're going to have to do process a
> lot of stats to find out which files you have execute permission for. 
> And they have already dealt with all the caveats that you haven't even 
> thought of yet ;-)

OTOH, if the path or filename contains a "\n" then the
OP's code won't work.  If the filesystem uses Unicode then
there will also be problems.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 29 09:56:55 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 16:56:55 +0300
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>
	<1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <du7d5z1fx08.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Just" == Just  <just at xs4all.nl> writes:

    >> Seconded!  Python 2.5 should be mostly about standard-library
    >> enhancements, and ctypes would be a huge enhancement to Python's stdlib.

    Just> In general, Guido is very reluctant to accept thing which
    Just> make is easy to cause segfaults. I predict you'll have a

Why is that? Users of ctypes can quite easily understand that when
they are using ctypes, they are not using Python but rather
integrating Python with the environment. Of course using pure Python
code (and integrating with only the C code that is bundled with the
distribution) shouldn't segfault, but with ctypes tho user will know
that the third party code is to blame.

Or are there some security issues?

One of the perceived strengths of Python is the fact that it
integrates well with the platforms it is running on, so it's not an
insulated box like Java.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 00:05:33 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 21:05:33 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm9a9j.s0b279yqpnlvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410262005.7a609ac4@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gm9a9j.s0b279yqpnlvN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:

> optional constraint checking [...] can be a handy feature for many kinds of 
> applications [...] Of course, this has nothing to do with silly and arbitrary 
> bounds such as 2**31-1.

bounds such as 2**31 are a crude form of constraint checking that you
get by default. if you feel your data is going to be larger, you can
use a long type

-kartik


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 10 14:11:48 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:11:48 -0700
Subject: The IDE question
In-Reply-To: <41689E50.3010301@kzoo.edu>
References: <41689E50.3010301@kzoo.edu>
Message-ID: <20041010110109.0891.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> All of the IDEs I've found (google + python wiki page) are either A) 
> Commercial or B) Written for either an older version of python or 
> wxPython or C) Are syntax highlighting in eclipse and that's it.
> 
> All I'm really looking for is the equivalent of IDLE with tabbed 
> browsing. Anyone have any suggestions?

I hate to pimp my own editor, but you may want to give PyPE a try
(http://pype.sf.net). It handles multiple documents via tabs, has a
source browser (updated with 'F5'), and various other features that may
just win it for you.  I also have a few screenshots of it up at
http://pype.sf.net/ss.html if you'd like to look before you leap.

1.9.3 is reported to work with wxPython 2.5.1.5, but if you are on
Windows, feel free to run the binary (I do).


 - Josiah

P.S. DrPython has better autocompletion (theirs will look through module
names), if you find DrPython's quality necessary, I'm sorry.



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct 29 11:04:05 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:04:05 -0400
Subject: Error import PyWinTypes24.dll
In-Reply-To: <a4686a1f.0410280422.7e7cddb7@posting.google.com>
References: <a4686a1f.0410280422.7e7cddb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <abqdnVmCjpR4xh_cRVn-rw@powergate.ca>

Alain wrote:
> I'm working on Windows XP, with Python24.
> I've a trouble with PyWinTypes24.dll (python Windows extensions).
> Trouble is not due to specific python version 24.
>   
> To distribute my applications, I don't want to put anything else
> elsewhere (neither in Windows/System32 nor in registry).
> So I deliver a folder (says HOME) that contains two mains folders
>   - a folder Python24 that contains python distribution and
> msvcr71.dll, python24.dll, PyWinTypes24.dll
>   - a folder apps that contain a folder per python application
>  
> I start my python applications with such command :
> HOME/Python24/Python HOME/apps/app1/run.py
> Windows complains that it cannot found PyWinTypes24.dll.
> If I copy PyWinTypes24.dll in each HOME/apps/appX folder, then it
> works.
> It's a solution but not very nice.
> Is there a solution without duplicate PyWinTypes24.dll ?

Is there any reason you aren't just using py2exe and creating
a proper Windows installer (with, say, InnoSetup), instead
of doing it the hard way?

If for some reason you really insist on avoiding any changes
to the registry (which InnoSetup will probably make for you,
automatically), then you could just distribute a .zip of
the dist folder py2exe creates.  Still no problems such
as you are facing above.

-Peter


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Oct 20 13:43:33 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:43:33 -0400
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org><mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org><1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com><1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com><mailman.5152.1098149022.5135.python-list@python.org><1glwdd4.s05uuadrav97N%aleaxit@yahoo.com><2tlvdiF20ldc8U1@uni-berlin.de><1gly6gz.1e3w9r85y0tbjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><20041020134321.GA22619@unpythonic.net>
	<864d3709041020101810f92d25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cl683v$lj2$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Carlos Ribeiro" <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:864d3709041020101810f92d25 at mail.gmail.com...
> I've read somewhere else that there are plans to make the loop
> variable to be limited in scope _to the loop only. Not sure about the
> details though.

I believe that might have happened already for the loop var *within* a list 
comprehension, and maybe within a generator expression (easy to test).  As 
I remember, the idea has been explicitly rejected for the loop var in for 
statements, which will remain compatible with equivalent while loops with 
explicitly assigned vars.

Terry J. Reedy





From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Thu Oct 14 16:14:02 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:14:02 +0200
Subject: Python COM and Threads
In-Reply-To: <21b384ca.0410141156.2cc930c9@posting.google.com>
References: <21b384ca.0410141156.2cc930c9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416ede0a$0$42417$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Olaf Meding wrote:
> Looks like Python can not make COM calls from a thread?  Here is the
> error message I get: 'CoInitialize has not been called.'

So.. call CoInitialize !?

(and CoUninitialize)

--Irmen


From export at hope.cz  Sat Oct 23 05:27:13 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 02:27:13 -0700
Subject: How to start a new thread ?
References: <mailman.5301.1098433895.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410230127.6c59f6f7@posting.google.com>

Tim Golden <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.5301.1098433895.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> [Lad]
> | > From running script I would like to start a new script in a new
> | > window.How can I do that from Python?
> | > Thanks for help
> | > LAD
> | 
> | Nobody knows???
> | Lad
> 
> <code>
> 
> import os
> os.system ("/path/to/other/script.py")
> 
> </code>
Dear Tim,
Thank you for the idea but it does not work without problems.
Your solution with os.system like 
os.system('start Script1.py')
os.system('start Script2.py')

works( without problems) if I start the main script from console.
Os.system opens a new console window and starts a child script in each
console window.
But
if I start the main script from a browser, and that is what I want,
like http://myserver/cgi-bin/ParentScript.py
the ParentScript.py does not open a new WEB BROWSER window but starts
a new CONSOLE window.
But I would like to open  each child script in a WEB BROWSER window
not in console window. How can I do that?
Thanks for help
Lad


From jbors at mail.ru  Thu Oct  7 13:49:46 2004
From: jbors at mail.ru (Dmitry Borisov)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 21:49:46 +0400
Subject: Python Audio Module
In-Reply-To: <416581EA.6000508@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <E1CFcOg-0007K2-00.jbors-mail-ru@f25.mail.ru>

From: Arich Chanachai 
To: python-list at python.org
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:50:34 -0400
Subject: Python Audio Module

> I'm looking for a Python module that will let me input wavs and spit out 
> mp3s or oggs. 

Check it out:
http://www.pymedia.org and incomplete tutorial http://www.pymedia.org/tut/
Dmitry/


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 16 13:31:27 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:31:27 -0400
Subject: Calculate the Timespan with wxDateTime
In-Reply-To: <3d199ee1.0410151359.16562bed@posting.google.com>
References: <3d199ee1.0410151359.16562bed@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <X7edncQGLPpzx-zcRVn-3A@powergate.ca>

mee-shell wrote:
> I am a newbie of python.  I just started to look at the wxDateTime in
> wx and wanted to know how to use the AddTS method to calculate the
> timespan.  Thanks.

Do you have to use wxDateTime, or are you just specifying
the implementation because you thought it would help?

There is a datetime module in the standard Python library
that can probably do what you want instead.

If you don't get the help you need, you might consider
posting again with actual examples of what you are
talking about (i.e. input and desired output) so nobody
has to guess.

-Peter


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 14 22:26:34 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:26:34 GMT
Subject: automatic accessors to a member var dict elements?
References: <mailman.4968.1097781955.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mu7sfs68m1q28@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <416f34af.287865508@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:56:09 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>If you really do need to maintain the dict separately, then you can use 
>__getattr__() and __setattr__() to redirect accesses of nonexistent 
>attributes into operations on your contained dict, something like this 
>(untested):
>
>    class MyClass(object):        # ensure a new-style class
>        def __init__(self):
>            self.m_dict = {'one':1, 'two':2, 'three':3}
>        def __getattr__(self, attr):
             try: return self.m_dict[attr]
             except KeyError: raise AttributeError(attr)

>            value = self.m_dict.get(attr, None)
>            if value is None:
>                raise AttributeError(attr)
>            return value
>        def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
>            self.m_dict[attr] = value
>
>I'm using a new-style class to take advantage of improvements in 
>attribute lookup.  For this class, __getattr__()/__setattr__() will only 
>be called if attr isn't found through the normal attribute resolution 
>rules. 
>
>One problem with the way I'm doing things here is that, if you set a 
>dict item to a value of None, the object will raise an AttributeError 
>when trying to access that item.  This really ought to use a safer 
>sentinel value.  (Check for a recent thread here in c.l.py about 
>sentinel values and the use of object() as one.)
>
Why not (untested) avoid the default sentinel and just translate
a key error to an attribute error as above?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 04:58:36 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:58:36 +0100
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
Message-ID: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>

Ok so this is really an HTTP question... but I'd far rather ask it
here !! If I don't get an answer I'll have to try elsewhere I guess
:-(

I'm developing a simple web user statistics program and I'd like to
gather information like number of pages a user views per visit. This
way I can distinguish between number of visits and number of page
views. 

Assuming that each visitor will have a unique IP address is probably
not 100% accurate but will have a reasonably low margin of error !! Is
there any reason not to use this approach ?

I could also set a cookie, but thescript works by embedding some
javascript in each page. The javascript does an image fetch which
sends the information to anotehr server. I believe setting cookies in
an image fetch to a different server to the main page request is
likely to be blocked by many people ?

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/pythonutils.html


From nospam  Tue Oct  5 09:23:15 2004
From: nospam (Sam G.)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:23:15 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>

According to the fact that all Thread run on the same CPU (if i didn't 
understand wrong), i'm asking if python will suffer from the future 
multicore CPU. Will not python use only one core, then a half or a 
quarter of CPU ? It could be a serious problem for the future of python...

I'm sorry if I ask a stupid alsmost-newbie question, but it's not the 
first time I'm asking it.

Sam.



Andrew Dalke wrote:
> No.  Python only supports one interpreter per process.  There
> may be several threads running, but only in the context of a
> single interpreter.  Why?  Various data structures assume
> global state.  One is support for different modules.


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 12 08:12:41 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:12:41 +0200
Subject: checking invalid urls with ssl + python 2.1.3 on linux/windows
Message-ID: <416bcbd1$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>

Hi,

I'm trying to do a simple link checking for python 2.1.3 (compiled from 
source on linux), but it fails when I use an invalid ssl url. For 
example: I have zope without ssl running on port 8080, if I do this on 
the browser's address bar:

https://my_ip:8080 --> The https is intentional

mozilla on linux and IE on windows, take a long time till a timeout 
occurs. I tried to check this timeout with the timeoutsocket.py (version 
1.23, the latest I could find) on linux, but it hangs:

import timeoutsocket
import smtplib
import urllib2

timeoutsocket.setDefaultSocketTimeout(5)
urllib2.urlopen('https://my_ip:8080')

Same happens with:

import httplib
import timeoutsocket
import smtplib

timeoutsocket.setDefaultSocketTimeout(5)
connection=httplib.HTTPSConnection('my_ip:8080')
connection.request('GET','/')

I searched on the newsgrous and found that timeoutsocket doesn't work 
with ssl sockets. So, I tried with signal alarms and the httplib and it 
succeeded on linux, but it doesn't work on windows because this os lacks 
of "signal.SIGALRM" :-(. I now about "socket.setdefaulttimeout", but 
this is a new feature and it doesn't exist on python 2.1.3 and I have to 
provide compatibility to this version (zope 2.6.x uses it).

Finally I found a message from Geoffrey Talvola, where he said that he 
has a patch which corrects this, but unfortunatelly I tried to contact 
him without any success. Does any body has such patch or perhaps a 
better idea of how to solve this problem?

Regards,
Josef


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 14:41:58 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 18:41:58 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-25, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:

>>>Why don't you just GPL the whole lot? Headache over, and a
>>>warm fuzzy feeling in its place.
>> 
>> 
>> I haven't said I won't. :) That said, providing a mechanism
>> for people to get the source does impose some overhead and
>> cost. And then there's the time/cost associated with
>> supporting the GPL'd source code _after_ you've provided
>> somebody with it.
>
> You don't have to provide any mechanism, nor provide any
> support.  If you are giving them .pyc files, just include the
> .py files as well.

I guess I could just tell py2exe to also include the .py files
in the install directory.  There's still the problem of the
time/cost required to support them.

> But as long as you don't mind people seeing, redistributing,
> and modifying your source,

The problem is the time spent answering questions and helping
the people who have the source code.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I brought my BOWLING
                                  at               BALL -- and some DRUGS!!
                               visi.com            


From jbperez808 at wahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 21:43:30 2004
From: jbperez808 at wahoo.com (Jon Perez)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:43:30 +0800
Subject: Parallelization on multi-CPU hardware? (see POSH - Python shared
 objects)
In-Reply-To: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2u5nslF2601mqU1@uni-berlin.de>

http://poshmodule.sf.net

POSH (Python Object sharing) allows Python objects
to be placed in shared memory and accessed transparently
between different Python processes.

This removes the need to futz around with IPC mechanisms
and lets you use Python objects (placed in shared memory)
between processes in much the same way that you use them
in threads.

"On multiprocessor architectures, multi-process applications
using POSH can significantly outperform similar multi-threaded
applications, since Python threads don't scale to take advantage
of multiple processors. Even so, POSH lends itself to a
programming model very similar to threads."

POSH has actually been around for quite a while, so I wonder
why it has not been mentioned more often.


P.M. wrote:

> ... I've seen advice that the only way to get
> scalability, due to the GIL, is to use an IPC mechanism between
> multiple distinct processes running seperate interpreters.  Is this
> still true or are there better ways to accomplish this?
> 
> Thanks
> Peter


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Tue Oct  5 15:34:04 2004
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:34:04 -0300
Subject: re bug
In-Reply-To: <877jq53v4k.fsf@thomas.local>
References: <3e96ebd7.0410050057.29a15174@posting.google.com>
	<87hdp94cc4.fsf@thomas.local>
	<mailman.4361.1096997821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<877jq53v4k.fsf@thomas.local>
Message-ID: <20041005193404.GA4163@burma.localdomain>

> > That's not the same regular expression. You must escape whitespaces
> > when using re.VERBOSE.
> 
> As far as I can see, I did, except in character classes, and quoting
> from the 're' manual:

'''
(?P<ALLES>
   (?:
      [^/ ]*/[^/ ]*/
      (?:                 # why a group?
         cn
         (?: :[^/ #]+ )*
      )
       ^
There's one space here. Your version doesn't expose the issue
mentioned by the OP, as you may see by uncommenting the third
test case.

[...]
> I actually tried the example stated in 'man perlre', translated to
> python:
[...]
> but apparently there are ways to nest the backtracking without hitting
> recursion limits.

This is fixed in Python 2.4:

>>> import re
>>> r = re.compile("((a{0,5}){0,5})*[c]")
>>> r.match("a"*10)
>>>

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 19:47:46 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:47:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: list comprehension for splitting strings into pairs
References: <mailman.4781.1097619107.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2t344cF1qetlbU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<loom.20041013T013223-613@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <loom.20041013T014624-448@post.gmane.org>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard <at> gmail.com> writes:
> >>> splits = [':' in item and item.split(':', 1) or [item, None]
> ...           for item in lst]
> >>> splits = [[int(i), p is not None and int(p) or p]
> ...           for i, p in splits]
> >>> splits
> [[1, None], [1, 2], [3, None], [-1, 4]]

So I realized that this doesn't quite work if the second item in a split is 0 -
- you'll end up with None instead of 0.

Steve



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sat Oct  2 20:30:59 2004
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 03 Oct 2004 10:30:59 +1000
Subject: python vs c#
In-Reply-To: <1gl21dj.16ck8e5edtxleN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<EPmdnagKPrUPhtPcRVn-iQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.3529.1095642828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gkgxts.1fq0rwq10mycqiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41513aac$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gkih9r.pfgqukvpt1rcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<37tjl09an200u6tejkrtklc8ib86uk7rm1@4ax.com>
	<7E_6d.33917$35.1643590@news4.tin.it>
	<cji8qo$qro$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
	<1gl21dj.16ck8e5edtxleN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1096763459.1231.27.camel@emilio>

On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 08:50, Alex Ravenscroft Martelli wrote:
> Sorry, but I think you're being too restrictive.  More impressively, so
> does one William Shakespeare (Comedy of Errors):
> """
> There's not a man I meet but doth salute me,
>  As if I were their well-acquainted friend.
> """
> See?  "a man" ... "their".
> 
> And the author of another of the masterpieces of English, the "King
> James' Bible" (Matthew 18:35):
> "...if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their
> trespasses..."
> See?  "brother" <-> "their".

Of course, William Shakespeare was the author, or at least the
translator, or one of the translators, of the King James Bible (KJB),
evidenced by the fact that in Psalm 46, the 46th word from the beginning
is 'shake' and the 46th word from the end (excluding the final,
obligatory "Selah") is  'spear'. Shakespeare was 46 years of age in 1611
when the KJB was first published. You can verify this here: 

http://www.cforc.com/kjv/Psalms/46.html

This factoid was mentioned in a review by Martin Gardiner of that very
rare tome, "Dr Matrix's Numerological Concordance to the King James
Bible", which appeared in the "Mathematical Diversions" section of the 
Scientific American magazine some time in the 1970s or early 1980s (as I
dimly recall).

-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0





From erik at heneryd.com  Sat Oct 30 12:31:41 2004
From: erik at heneryd.com (Erik Heneryd)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:31:41 +0200
Subject: Regex speed
In-Reply-To: <2uht1dF2bphrrU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>	<DiEgd.6304$kM.2345@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<2uh4g5F29ntaoU1@uni-berlin.de>	<w4mdnc7RG8C9Dx7cRVn-gA@powergate.ca>	<2uhjgnF29251cU1@uni-berlin.de>	<c4udnf9tNaRXMx7cRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>	<2uhpegF2bg2kdU2@uni-berlin.de>	<vvqdnVbQ0PJfJx7cRVn-vg@powergate.ca>
	<2uht1dF2bphrrU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4183C1ED.3030709@heneryd.com>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> Original:                       2,579 sec
> sub method aliased to variable: 2,542 sec
> everything stuffed in function: 2,422 sec
> 
> Without regex substitution:     0,523 sec
> (but _with_ re.compile calls,
>  so this can't be the problem)

Ah, thought you said something about compile() being the timesink, but I 
guess I misunderstood...


Erik



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Oct  6 23:57:55 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:57:55 +1300
Subject: id() collisions on bound methods [was: metaclass and
 customization with parameters]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4406.1097030810.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F33@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>	<20041005235752.29723.1522463815.divmod.quotient.10124@ohm>	<59e9fd3a04100517216b5bf323@mail.gmail.com>	<864d370904100518566559f66e@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4406.1097030810.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2sjt67F1metb2U1@uni-berlin.de>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> In the Olden Days, "caching" bound methods would have led to cycles
> that were never collected.  Nowadays, there's a cyclic GC collector,
> so if that was the killer for this idea maybe it's worth revisiting.

Alternatively, creation of the bound method could be skipped
altogether in the case where it's going to be immediately called.
This could be achieved by having

    obj.meth(args)

generate a single CALL_METHOD opcode instead of an attribute
lookup followed by a call.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct  5 02:08:03 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 06:08:03 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uko932-mrd.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Josiah Carlson  <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>> 31. Concepts of Protocols (whereby one may organize related methods into 
>> groups and check whether a particular object implements the methods 
>> within this protocol), or Interfaces similar to those in Java whereby 
>> classes or objects which implement the interface (sign the contract) 
>> must implement the methods and attributes as specified in the interface, 
>> and/or programming by contract such as in Eiffel (see: 
>> http://www.devhood.com/tutorials/tutorial_details.aspx?tutorial_id=595)
>
>No.  Test-driven development is the norm in Python.
			.
			.
			.
... but see <URL: http://www.pypackage.org/packages/python-dbc >
for one among several DbC initiatives.


From zooko at zooko.com  Thu Oct 21 14:42:57 2004
From: zooko at zooko.com (Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 15:42:57 -0300
Subject: Actual memory used by an object --- How to Determine?
In-Reply-To: <20041021100616.0AB2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <E1CKcEE-0005j6-00@localhost>
	<20041021100616.0AB2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <06D8B575-2391-11D9-A2F8-000A95E2A184@zooko.com>

On 2004, Oct 21, at 14:55, Josiah Carlson wrote:

>
> zooko at zooko.com wrote:
>> Here some some functions I've used to analyze memory usage in the 
>> past.
>>
>> http://mnetproject.org/repos/pyutil/pyutil/memutil.py
>
> The site is down.

I just checked and it works for me.  I suppose there was a transient 
burp.  :-/

Regards,

Zooko




From joewong at mango.cc  Fri Oct 15 03:02:25 2004
From: joewong at mango.cc (Joe Wong)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:02:25 +0800
Subject: Not enough space error?
References: <20041014231610.0978.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<01fb01c4b280$c6444f20$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
	<20041014234617.097C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <023601c4b284$edb5ac30$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>

One more interesting thing is when that error occurs, I can't open any other file on the system unless I kill all Python process from Task manager...

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Josiah Carlson 
  To: Joe Wong ; python-list at python.org 
  Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 2:53 PM
  Subject: Re: Not enough space error?



  > Hi, No, it is a NTFS volumne.

  Hrm, you got me.  I've only run into problems with big files on Fat32
  disks.

   - Josiah



  ---
  Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
  Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
  Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 2004/10/8
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From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 03:00:12 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 07:00:12 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0Er8d.3258$M05.2333@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> Why are you so fervently against eval, exec?  What sort of security 
> holes?  Don't tell me, I'll look it up.

Here's a sketch

class Spam:
   def __init__(self, **kargs):
     self.__data__.update(kwargs)

x = Spam(a=3, b=4, c=5)

s = raw_input("Which variable? ")
eval("x." + s)

Now the user enters "a and __import__('os').system('rm -rf $HOME')"

> It tells me I passed in two arguments when I only passed in one.

That's because you didn't list 'self' in the parameter list.
You misinterpreted the respondent's answer to your question.

>> Do you want it because it's cool or because it's useful?
>>
> Cool = useful

Cool often means unmaintainable, inappropriate, overly
complex.  Rube Goldberg's works are cool, but not useful.

> Yes it does.  Other language have them as functions (just funny looking 
> one's like in this case).  Take Lua for example.  "require" is a method 
> but it import the same way "import" does in Python (syntactically).

Python expressions != statements.  Deliberate design choice.

>>>> It is not hidden, in fact, you get to name it...
>>>>
>>>> class foo:
>>>>     def goo(I_AM_SELF, arg):
>>>>         pass
>>>>
>>> Cool!
>>
>> DO NOT DO THAT EVER!
>>
>> Seriously not cool.
>>
> 
> Would you like to explain why not?  Josiah didn't seem to have any 
> qualms with it.

Makes for a maintainable mess.  You asked "can I" not "should I".

>> NO!  Don't do that.  Bad code.  Subtle errors.
>>
>> Try Perl or Ruby instead.
>>
> Now your encouraging me not to use Python?

I'm encouraging you to use code that meets your needs.  You
seem to want a language that focuses on your personal needs
(tail recursion, access to gc, changing the name of self,
eval/exec vs. introspection, etc) and not those that encourage
group development (security, consistent naming scheme,
similarity in constructs).  Other languages do a better
job at empowering a solo programmer.

>> It quite depends on your expectations of what design by
>> contract, protocols, etc. means.  Do some research.  Hint:
>> Google for 'python "design by contract"' and related topics.
>>
> Cameron provided me a link, most excellent.

And you'll see Google returns many more, all with different
views.  And your question was more expansive than just Design
by Contract, so Cameron didn't answer it fully.

>> Yes.  But you'll never use them.  The problem you'll want
>> to solve is "how do I call Python code from a ... library"
>> or "how do I package Python as an executable" and not
>> "how do I convert Python code into C".
>>
>> You are asking the wrong question.  You are asking about
>> technique, not goal.
>>
> No, no, I want the C speed.

Then say so.  There are Python to C converters which at best
give about a 5% speed boost, so the answer to your original
question would be "yes" but also not be the answer to your
real question.

>> You asked for "embedding variables" not embedding expressions.
>> You got what you asked for, not what you wanted.  That's part
>> of being able to ask the right question.  Remember that essay
>> people suggested you read?
>>
> I gave a goddamn code example, grief.  How much more explicit do I need be?

You gave a code example that could be interpreted in several
different ways.  The easiest way to answer was to resolve using
the text of your question.

You can get what you want by defining your own dictionary-like
object which interacts with string interpolation.  But I've
a phone conf. now and can't give details.


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From jerf at jerf.org  Fri Oct 22 02:17:20 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:17:20 GMT
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:25:49 +0400, Roman Suzi wrote:

> 
> 
> Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi

OK, independent of the usual top-posting debate, you *really* need to not
top-post a Usenet signiture (two dashes followed by a space). I hit reply
and this is all my (conformant) newsreader picked up as the message; the
rest is (correctly in the abstract) considered a signiture. 

Anyhow, I have a question:

> Most Python programs are already kinda generic, yes. But generic
> programming adds multi-sorted types control and constraints to ensure
> type safety...

Is this type safety that you refer to truly necessary according to
somebody's definition of "generic programming"? If so, can you link to it?
(Maybe not, as it may just be in a paper; I'm asking for info if it's
easy, not if it is hard.)

See, some people insist that the kind of type safety that you are
referring to are absolutely, positively necessary in OO, too. But then
these people are left unable to explain why Python programs fail to fly
apart at the seams as they get larger. (This was one of the things that
finally broke me of the strong typing inculcation I received in school;
strong typing, considered as a scientific theory (something like "Large
programs must be strongly typed, or they will cease working and
maintenance will become impossible"), made claims about programs that
proved to be wrong. Therefore, discard the theory. (Which isn't to say it
is *useless*, just that the cause/effect theories didn't pan out.))

So I am honestly asking (since I don't know), is it really *necessary*
according to some reasonably widely acknowledged definition of "generic
programming, or is it a continued holdover from 25+ years of strong typing
dogma that might also be disproved by an existing implementation that
falsifies the theoretical claims?

Generic programming to me has been the recognition that it can be powerful
to program to interfaces/concepts/capabilities. There is a core idea in
that three-word block, but the implementation differs from language to
language, and one should not confuse a given implementation, esp. in a
language predating the term, with the idea of "generic programming". As
with about half of the "Design Patterns", Python does "generic
programming" so easily that it can be easy for someone used to jumping
through hoops and being caught up in the trappings to not recognize that
Python captures the essence with little or no effort. 

In this case, it is "no" effort: Python does generic programming in this
sense *automatically*, every time you write an algorithm, and you have to
work hard to avoid it. (Though for any given algorithm it may of course
end up depending intimately on some set of properties such that it can't
conceivably be used generically, but *Python* isn't standing in the way.)
In fact, if Alex Martelli had a dime for every time he smacked someone
metaphorically on this newsgroup for so breaking the genericity of the
algorithm (by unnecessarily using "isinstance", usually), he'd, well, be
able to buy a very, very nice dinner.

So I guess I'd emphasize that I am quite explicitly *not* asking about the
trappings of a given implementation; I'm asking about the true essence of
the idea. My feeling is no, but I am not an expert on generic programming
and would look forward to learning how I might be wrong here, even with my
evident biases (/experience) on the typing issue.



From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Wed Oct 20 14:23:30 2004
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:23:30 -0300
Subject: By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <1glv5uk.n5etko6o0g7xN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1glv5uk.n5etko6o0g7xN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041020182330.GA6267@burma.localdomain>

> > > By reference to an object....See the python tutorial.
> > 
> > Wrong.  Here is the difference between pass by reference and pass by
> > value to CS types:
> > 
> > >>> def foo(a): a = 1
> > ...
> > >>> i = 10
> > >>> foo(i)
> > >>> print i
> > 
> > With pass-by-reference, i would now be 1.  However, since python is
> > pass-by-value, it remains 10.
> 
> ...so you tell "CS types" it's pass-by-value, and they come right back
> with
> 
> def bar(b): b.append(2)
> 
> z = []
> bar(z)
> print z
> 
> With pass-by-value, they'll say, z would still be [].  However, since
> what is passed is not just (a copy of) the value, but (a reference to)
> the object itself, z is [2] instead.

It really depends on what you claim to be passed by value. In Python,
objects are passed by reference, but references are passed by value. So
one may say that z is being passed by value, since what is passed is a
copy of the reference. With that in mind, one may correctly say that
Python always do pass-by-value, and correctly say that it always do
pass-by-reference.

Here is an article presenting the issue in more detail (much more :-):

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-passbyval/

> The terminology problem may be due to the fact that, in python, the
> value of a name is a reference to an object.  So, you always pass the
> value (no implicity copying), and that value is always a reference.
[...]

That's it.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net


From bossierbossman at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 05:11:29 2004
From: bossierbossman at yahoo.com (Travis)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:11:29 -0000
Subject: Yahoo SMTP
Message-ID: <cktd01+h6gp@eGroups.com>


Can someone give me an example of connecting to yahoo's smtp server 
and sending mail?
I'm doing this:
msg = MIMEText(self.text_ctrl_1.GetValue())
        msg['Subject'] = sub
        msg['From'] = 'bossierbossman at yahoo.com'
        msg['To'] = to
        s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.mail.yahoo.com')
        s.set_debuglevel(1)
        s.connect()
        s.login('bossierbossman', 'mypassword')
        s.sendmail('bossierbossman at yahoo.com', [to], msg)
        s.quit()
which isn't working out for me.  Any thoughts?





From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Sun Oct  3 07:08:20 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 13:08:20 +0200
Subject: Help - my Tkinter is broken
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.03.09.50.45.170085@virgilio.it>
References: <NJB7d.16164$FZ5.2713@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
	<pan.2004.10.03.09.50.45.170085@virgilio.it>
Message-ID: <20041003110820.GH3620@zoran.com>

Hello Francesco,

> > 3) Thinking that the compilation process is looking for tk and tcl under 
> > /usr/local/lib, I created symlinks there to /usr/lib/tcl-8.4 and 
> > /usr/lib/tk-8.4, and then repeated step 2.  Still no _tkinter.so.
> Last time I compiled python on Linux (it was the 1.6 ) in order to include
> statically Tkinter (or other modules), you needed to tweak with one file
> in the Setup sub-directory of the source tree. Given the sore state of my
> brain RAM, I can't be more precise than that.
Just uncomment the lines in Modules/Setup that start with _tkinter.

HTH.
Bye.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com>
http://tebeka.spymac.net
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys


From kv11111 at mail.ru  Fri Oct 22 13:35:43 2004
From: kv11111 at mail.ru (Vova)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:35:43 +0400
Subject: Latex2html conventor ?
Message-ID: <clbgcn$529$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hello All !
There are latex2html perl program witch convert latex documents to html.
Is there something like this in python ?

-- 
    Vladimir



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 13:37:19 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:37:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Interface of the set classes
References: <41824654$0$1779$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.5666.1099068345.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41827d0b$0$313$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <loom.20041029T193339-547@post.gmane.org>

Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier <at> cirad.fr> writes:
> 
> I don't _need_ __getitem__ for itself. I need it because I don't know 
> how to iterate over a list and store the current position for future 
> use.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to do here.  Could you give an
example?  Iterators are resumable, so at least one sense of "storing the current
position" is just retaining the iterator:

>>> l = [11, 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 11, 3, 7, 5]
>>> items = iter(set(l))
>>> for i, item in enumerate(items):
... 	print item
... 	if i == 3:
... 		break
... 	
1
2
3
5
>>> for item in items:
... 	print item
... 	
7
11

If you could post an example of what you're doing right now with lst[x], maybe
we could suggest some other ways of approaching it that take advantage of, say
__iter__, instead of __getitem__?

Steve



From spam at nospam.org  Wed Oct 27 19:22:33 2004
From: spam at nospam.org (Erik Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:22:33 -0600
Subject: Can not get urllib.urlopen to work
References: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
	<lnUfd.78980$hj.33310@fed1read07>
Message-ID: <41802c3d$1@nntp.zianet.com>


Sean Berry wrote:

> A few years back I needed to get information about the weather based on
zip
> code.  I used to use weather.com but they fixed the hole.  They made any
> port 80 request forward to another address, which in turn forwarded you to
> the original request.  So if you west to www.weather.com, it would forward
> you to www2.weather.com, then back to www.weather.com.  The index page at
> www.weather.com would then check the referrer to see if it came from
> www2.weather.com.  If the referrer was correct, then you got the page
> content.  If it was wrong, there was no page.
>
> Similarly, www2.weather.com would check to see that the referrer was
> www.weather.com... so there was no way around it.

Au contraire, monsieur...  there is no reason I can't set the referrer
header (using httplib).

> I use another method to protect my programs... but it still does the same
> thing ultimatly... stops people from using my programs.

    It is a level of discouragement, and may be sufficient to stop the
simplest of abuses, but the reality is that, given enough work, one can have
their Python program recreate any HTTP transaction or series of transactions
needed. If you want to redirect me to a dynamically generated URL, fine...
I'll read the Location header and go there, if you want to set a cookie
there, fine, I'll read the Set-Cookie header, set it, then return it to you,
just as a browser does. If you want to check the User-Agent, I can send
headers that look exactly like what MSIE or any other browser would send.
You can make it difficult, no doubt, and doing so may be a wise thing to do,
but it is wrong to say that just becasue A sends you to B, and B refers you
back to A, there is no way around it.

    I am currently doing exactly this sort of thing, but not to abuse
others' work. We pay for a service where data is published on a web site. We
need to get at this data several times an hour, 24X7. There is a login page,
and one or more HTML forms that must be filled out and submitted, and
cookies set and checked to get to the pages that contain the data we need.
It was not designed to be machine read, but that doesn't mean reading it in
an automated manner is "wrong" or abusive - we're paying for that data, they
just happen to present it in a format that's not all that conducive to
automated machine parsing. Fine, I'll do the extra work to get at it in that
manner.

    I suppose you could meter the number of requests that a particular IP is
making or something on the server side, and there isn't much that can be
done on the requester's end. With access to several machines, though, even
this hurdle could be cleared.

    So, anyway, if the OP wants to get more sophisticated about automated
surfing, check out the httplib module:
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-httplib.html

    FYI... www.dictionary.com loads (for me, now) through a simple telnet
request:

ej at sand:~/src/python> telnet www.dictionary.com 80
Trying 66.161.12.81...
Connected to www.dictionary.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.0

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:57:49 GMT
Server: Apache
Cache-Control: must-revalidate
Expires: Mon, 26 Jul 1997 05:00:00 GMT
Last-Modified: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:58:07 GMT
Pragma: no-cache
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/loose.dtd">
<html>

<snip!>

HTH,
-ej




From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct 30 05:18:30 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:18:30 +0200
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
Message-ID: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hello,

another Perl/Python question: the subject says it all.

Perl is going to change dramatically to become a more powerful and
easier to (read|write) language.

Is Python taking a similar step (-> Python 3) some time in the near future?

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From bjourne at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 00:23:10 2004
From: bjourne at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:23:10 +0200
Subject: subclassing builtin types
Message-ID: <740c3aec04100721233e857588@mail.gmail.com>

A problem I have occured recently is that I want to subclass builtin
types. Especially subclassing list is very troublesome to me. But I
can't find the right syntax to use. Take for example this class which
is supposed to be a representation of a genome:

class Genome(list):
    def __init__(self):
        list.__init__(self)
        self = ["A", "G", "C", "G", "A"]
        ....

etc, you get the point. The line self = ["A", "G", "C", "G", "A"] will
not work like I have intended. There are quite a few other problems I
can't solve too, but getting the [] operator right seems almost
impossible. Then I've asked around on IRC and the general consensus
seem to be that subclassing buiiltin types is Not A Good Idea <TM>. 
Why not? To me, it makes perfectly sense to subclass list when you
want to make a class that IS a list with some extra stuff. And in
other languages you do it all the time like Java's List and C++ STL's
vector.  Why is it so much harder in Python?


-- 
mvh Bj?rn


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Oct 13 13:41:01 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:41:01 +0200
Subject: Problem with logging module
References: <78406811.0410130851.5cf73a75@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckjpbd$o0b$02$1@news.t-online.com>

> self.logger = logging.getLogger(name)
> self.logger.propagate = False
> handler = logging.FileHandler(dir + '/' + name + '.log')
> self.logger.addHandler(handler)
^^^^
Thats your problem - only set the handler once for the runtime of your
program.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From andrewm at object-craft.com.au  Thu Oct 14 09:45:26 2004
From: andrewm at object-craft.com.au (Andrew McNamara)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:45:26 +1000
Subject: email module - getting unicode string from header?
Message-ID: <20041014134526.B775A3C24C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>

Given an email.Message.Message() object, what is the canonical way to
obtain a list of unicoded address headers? This is the effect I'm trying
to achieve, but it seems somewhat cumbersome:

    >>> from email.Header import make_header, decode_header
    >>> from email.Utils import formataddr, getaddresses
    >>> [unicode(make_header(decode_header(formataddr(t)))) 
         for t in getaddresses(m.get_all('to')+m.get_all('cc'))]


-- 
Andrew McNamara, Senior Developer, Object Craft
http://www.object-craft.com.au/


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Oct 25 19:50:25 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:50:25 -0700
Subject: Global variables..
In-Reply-To: <938a4680.0410251353.64578a27@posting.google.com>
References: <938a4680.0410251353.64578a27@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10nr45n59gk9011@corp.supernews.com>

Ishwar Rattan wrote:

>Say I have two pythom modules in separate files:
>main.py -> contains main() modules and uses a global variable (say a)
>incr.py -> contains incre() that changes the value of global variable a
>(called in main())
>
>Is there a way to reflect the change in main()?
>  
>

Hm, second time today that this question has been asked.  (And both 
posts sport an .edu address, too.)  Coincidence?

In answer to your question -- not with bare names, unless you're willing 
to do (at a minimum) some nasty black magic (hacking the stack frame and 
the like).  (And no, I don't know offhand how to do this black magic, 
nor would I wish to use it to allow such behavior.  Globals are almost 
always a bad idea.)

You can accomplish much the same ends in a much cleaner/clearer fashion 
by avoiding the 'from a import *' in favor of 'import a', and referring 
to the global variabler as an attribute of a: 'a.a = a.a + 100'.  (This 
is generally the preferred way of sharing variables across modules.) 

If you insist on import * to get bare names (which I would strongly 
recommend against), then you can still mutate shared objects and see the 
effects of that mutation in different modules.  For instance, you could 
bind the name a in a.py to an object that would allow itself to be 
incremented and decremented (using __iadd__(), etc), and which can be 
coaxed to resolve to that value when used in an expression.  This would 
allow you to modify the value by using 'a += 100', for example.  
However, the moment you rebind the name (as you do in your code, with 'a 
= a + 100'), you are creating a new variable that is local to the 
current scope, overriding the global a and potentially raising an 
UnboundLocalError.

So the short answer to your question is no, and you probably don't want 
to anyhow.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Tue Oct  5 06:09:07 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:09:07 +0100
Subject: shelve: choice of database package
In-Reply-To: <1gl6k92.1k9bkqw1a1khhoN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4327.1096966702.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6k92.1k9bkqw1a1khhoN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cjtrs5$6vp$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> See the whichdbm module in the standard library.

I think you mean whichdb?
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From ralobao at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 21:28:01 2004
From: ralobao at gmail.com (ralobao)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 18:28:01 -0700
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
References: <mailman.5254.1098346524.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Z7mdnc7-u7hi9eXcRVn-ug@adelphia.com>
	<mailman.5304.1098434715.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc7d834f.0410231728.7d1cad4b@posting.google.com>

I think Python should expand its library of modules. It needs to
become more concise, its horrible to search the web for a module...

Sorry but its my thought.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 28 12:54:50 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:54:50 -0700
Subject: passing a socket to a spawned process.
In-Reply-To: <fa2c4bf8.0410280000.6d937d6e@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4842.1097673119.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fa2c4bf8.0410280000.6d937d6e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041028095354.0B91.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


martin_ml at parvat.com (Martin Atkins) wrote:
> 
> I recently wrote a c module for Python, for passing file descriptors and process
> credentials down unix domain sockets under Linux. (using sendmsg(2))
> 
> It was pretty easy, and I could send it to anyone interested. Contact me
> off-list, since I don't normally read this group.
> 
> Perhaps there is a need for a OS-independant wrapper around versions
> specifically for Linux, Windows, Solaris, etc?
> 
> Martin

I'll take the source for the C version.  And in general, yes, Python
could use such a thing for all platforms, though I'm not sure all
platforms support it.

 - Josiah



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 02:20:25 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 06:20:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Recursive function to develop permutations
References: <RiZcd.840$5i5.671@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<1glxc40.1kfx0apgrp3u3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<nnFdd.2986$5i5.1800@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <loom.20041021T081519-68@post.gmane.org>

Steve Goldman <steve_g <at> ix.netcom.com> writes:

> But now I have another question.  In the elegant recursive generator, below,
> the yield expression for the terminating condition is followed by a return
> statement.  Why is that necessary?
[snip]
> > def permute(Xs, N):
> >     if N <= 0:
> >         yield []
> >         return
> >     for x in Xs:
> >         for sub in permute(Xs, N-1):
> >             yield [x]+sub

The 'return' statement tells the generator to exit the function (without 
saving the state.  So,

>>> def gen():
... 	yield 1
... 	return
... 	yield 2
... 	
>>> list(gen())
[1]

Note that the second yield is never reached.  So the source of your example 
above chose to use the 'return' statement instead of the perhaps more 
intuitive (but slightly more indented):

def permute(Xs, N):
    if N <= 0:
        yield []
    else:
        for x in Xs:
            for sub in permute(Xs, N-1):
                yield [x]+sub

Steve



From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Fri Oct  8 20:22:13 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 02:22:13 +0200
Subject: [OT] problems with css, moinmoin standalone and Firefox on Win32
 was Re: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4616.1097279660.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4166F7C6.7050405@wanadoo.fr>
	<41670711.9040508@po-box.mcgill.ca>	<864d3709041008151026806fa4@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4616.1097279660.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41672f35$0$42417$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Are you sure that the server is sending the correct Content-Type HTTP header for the css 
files? Firefox refuses to load css files in standard compliance mode when the 
content-type is not text/css.

--Irmen


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Oct 28 15:54:58 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:54:58 -0500
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <20041028102350.0BA3.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>
	<20041028102350.0BA3.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041028195458.GF19311@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 10:47:35AM -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> class BoundedInt(object):
>     a = [0]
>     def f(a):
>         a[0] = 1
>         return 1
>     assert f(a)
>     if a[0]:
>         def __new__(cls, val, lower, upper):
>             #body for creating new bounded int object...
>             #only gets called if Python _is not run_ with -O option.
>     else:
>         def __new__(cls, val, lower, upper):
>             #optimized version is a plain integer
>             return val
>     del f;del a #clean out the namespace
>     #insert code for handling bounded integer arithmetic here

Is there a reason you didn't use 'if __debug__' here?

    class BoundedInt(object):
        ...
        if __debug__:
            def __new__ ...
        else:
            def __new__ ...

Jeff
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 18:08:42 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:08:42 +0200
Subject: Yet Another Command Line Parser
References: <5c4tn0latkspkrrlj8r66qj7h35qbpies0@4ax.com>
	<qExfd.3218$kM.28@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1gmafuh.1ahlu0w17i82akN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
   ...
> >     exec('func(' + _options + ')')
> 
> > The only problem is that error messages are ugly.
> 
> And it's a huge security hole.  What if I did
> 
> script.py "x=6)\
> import os
> os.system('ls -l')"

Not to defend exec (ugly thing it is), but in this case I'm not sure
what the security hole would be.  If I enter that tricky commandline at
a shell prompt, it will be just as if i had executed the 'ls -l' at the
same shell prompt; weird, but where is the huge security hole?  It's not
as if there were setuid shell scripts (is there...?  I sure hope not!-).

IOW, what's the difference between that and the commandline

script.py 'x=6' && ls -l

for example?  The latter is no security hole, after all.

I understand and agree with the other criticisms you extend to the OP's
code, but this one leaves me perplexed.  exec is a huge security hole of
you're doing it on untrusted data, data supplied by somebody else than
the uid running the script; but how are commandline arguments
'untrusted'...?


Alex


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 12:28:33 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:28:33 -0600
Subject: key argument for max?
Message-ID: <d11dcfba04102109287d732270@mail.gmail.com>

I was wondering if there's any plans to add a "key" argument to max
(and min) like was done for sort(ed)?  I fairly often run into a
situation where I have something like:

counts = {}
for item in iterable:
    counts[item] = counts.get(item, 0) + 1
_, max_item = max((count, item) for item, count in counts.items())

It would be nice to be able to write that last like like:

max(counts, key=counts.__getitem__)

If this seems like a good idea, maybe someone could point me in the
right direction and I could try to make a patch?  I've never looked at
the Python sources before, and it's been a long time since I've
written any C, but if it's not too hard...

Steve
-- 
You can wordify anything if you just verb it.
        - Bucky Katt, Get Fuzzy


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sat Oct  9 03:06:54 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 08:06:54 +0100
Subject: distutils and Debian (was Re: newbie question)
In-Reply-To: <ck7ri6$1sll$1@geode.berkeley.edu>
References: <ck7ri6$1sll$1@geode.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <41678E0E.30507@example.com>

Eric Brewer wrote:

> I just installed Python on a Debian (testing) box and it generally works 
> fine, but it can't find distutils.core:

For some reason, some distributions split up the Python standard library 
and put things like distutils into a python-dev package or something 
similar. I think Debian does this, try apt-get python-dev and see if it 
works (my apologies if I get that totally wrong, since I am only 
parroting numerous Slashdot posts).

Personally I only see the point of this for systems with extreme space 
requirements, and maybe not even then. Would anyone like to argue 
differently?

 > 1) Where should distutils be?  (This 2.3.4, so I think it is a 
standard module.)

$ python
Python 2.3.4 (#1, Jun 13 2004, 11:21:03)
[GCC 3.3.1 (cygming special)] on cygwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import distutils
 >>> distutils.__file__
'/usr/lib/python2.3/distutils/__init__.pyc'

 > 2) Is there any see if "dist*" is anywhere on the path?

The easiest way to do this will probably be to write something in Python 
since there is always the possibility of a zip file being in your path.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From bryanjugglercryptographer at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 17:10:35 2004
From: bryanjugglercryptographer at yahoo.com (bryanjugglercryptographer at yahoo.com)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 14:10:35 -0700
Subject: Simple Python web proxy stalls for some web sites
In-Reply-To: <41649d0e@post.usenet.com>
References: <41649d0e@post.usenet.com>
Message-ID: <1097183435.871556.185400@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>


Carl Waldbieser wrote:
[...]
> I have written a simple web proxy using the Python standard library
> BaseHTTPRequestHandler.
[...]
> Some web sites work fine (e.g. www.python.org).  However, some web
> sites simply seem to stall indefinitely (e.g. www.google.com).  If I
set
> the same browser to connect directly to the Internet, the site comes
up
> close to immediately.
>
> If anybody has any ideas about why this happens, or any coding
mistakes I
> may have made, I would appreciate the feedback.

[...]
>             f = urllib2.urlopen(request)
[...]
>             print "Reading..."
>             s = f.read()

This is trying to read until the connection closes, but it's an
HTTP/1.1 connection (and Google usually even sends "connection:
Keep-Alive"), so it won't close after it responds to this one
request.  The "content-length" header tells you how much to read
in this case.

Google HTTP/1.1 query results are even trickier; they typically
come back with "Transfer-Encoding: chunked", and, if you sent
the right Accept-Encoding header, will also usually have
"Content-Encoding: gzip".

See RFC 2616 for the requirements to be a true HTTP/1.1 proxy.
BaseHTTPRequestHandler and urllib2 are not really up to the job.
-- 
--Bryan



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  2 18:50:42 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 00:50:42 +0200
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<EPmdnagKPrUPhtPcRVn-iQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.3529.1095642828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gkgxts.1fq0rwq10mycqiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41513aac$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gkih9r.pfgqukvpt1rcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<37tjl09an200u6tejkrtklc8ib86uk7rm1@4ax.com>
	<7E_6d.33917$35.1643590@news4.tin.it>
	<cji8qo$qro$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1gl21dj.16ck8e5edtxleN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:

> Second, "their" is allowed as a singular pronoun only in those cases where
> a gender-specific pronoun is called for, but the gender is unclear or would
> be sexist.  Instead of "Everyone brought his Python manual," we are now
> allowed to say "Everyone brought their Python manual."

Sorry, but I think you're being too restrictive.  More impressively, so
does one William Shakespeare (Comedy of Errors):
"""
There's not a man I meet but doth salute me,
 As if I were their well-acquainted friend.
"""
See?  "a man" ... "their".

And the author of another of the masterpieces of English, the "King
James' Bible" (Matthew 18:35):
"...if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their
trespasses..."
See?  "brother" <-> "their".

While most uses of singular "their" will be connected to gender
indeterminacy, I agree with "Henry Churchyard's linguistics page",
specifically with his subpage on the subject at
<http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html>, that:
"""
unspecified gender is actually neither a necessary or sufficient
condition for use of singular "their"
"""

Churchyard gives specific examples from Austen and Shakespeare and
argues cogently:
"""
It's also interesting that in several of the examples (they are pointed
out in the list), singular "their" refers to each of several women, and
so was not used to express gender-neutrality. The reason for this is
that singular "their" can serve as a general way of expressing
indefiniteness, which need not have anything whatever to do with
gender-neutrality.
"""


Alex


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Oct 12 13:51:49 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:51:49 +0200
Subject: file comparisons
In-Reply-To: <df19e346.0410120805.608ada7e@posting.google.com>
References: <df19e346.0410120805.608ada7e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416c19b6$0$36860$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Scott Carlson wrote:
> If I find two Files with the same name, I want to know if the contents
> of the Files are exactly the same (I don't care about the date/time of
> the File).
> 
> If they are different I want to move the new one into the Primary
> Folder.

Something like:-

find files to process using os.listdir() on both directories
and checking for common files, for instance:
commonfiles=sets.Set(os.listdir("tempdir")) & sets.Set(os.listdir("primarydir"))

Loop over the files using os.path.isfile (so you skip the
directories, then for each file read both files into memory using....
f1=open( ....tempfilename....  , "rb").read()
f2=open( ....primaryfilename...  ,"rb").read()

Then compare and move file if unequal:
if f1!=f2:
	shutil.move("filename1","filename2")

(Untested)

--Irmen



From phleum_nospam at chello.se  Tue Oct 26 16:28:25 2004
From: phleum_nospam at chello.se (Carl)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:28:25 +0200
Subject: Win32+Zope+Python+Databases: What are my options?
Message-ID: <jZxfd.1119$mm6.1114@amstwist00>

Using COM and ADO on Win32, it is very easy to access databases (eg MySql,
MS SQL Server, etc) from Python.

Does anybody know if it is possible to access databases from Zope (which is
written in Python) using COM and ADO? 

Carl



From zathras at thwackety.com  Tue Oct 19 19:08:27 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:08:27 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Netiquette Re: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <cl409j$kdm$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410192359090.12653-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, JCM wrote:
> Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Frohnhofer, James <james.frohnhofer at csfb.com> wrote:
> >> Why do you say 'simple-minded'?
> > Why do you top-post?
> Be civil.  There are those who prefer it, in some cases.  If you don't
> like it, don't do it.

With all due respect, top posting is considered bad netiquette in forums
like newsgroups and many mailing lists. If you've never seen/read/heard of
it, and have the inclination, take a peak at the Emily Postnews Netiquette
FAQ:
   http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/emily-postnews/part1/
Much of it is from an older, simpler time...

As for why it causes arguments, the following might help:
   http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?TheSeptemberThatNeverEnded
(gets a bit self involved really, but might be interesting)

If this is all old hat to you, apologies :)

Best Regards,


Michael.



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Oct 19 19:04:25 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:04:25 +1000 (EST)
Subject: How to disable urllib2 HTTP proxy on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <4174577a@post.usenet.com>
References: <4174577a@post.usenet.com>
Message-ID: <20041020090133.I5099@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Carl Waldbieser wrote:

> In the Python library reference, I read that setting the HTTP_PROXY
> environment variable could set a proxy, as could installing a new opener.
> However, I tried to turn off proxy support by setting HTTP_PROXY="", and I
> got an error for my trouble (don't recall exact error right now-- am at
> home on my GNU/Linux system).  Is it possible to turn off proxy support in
> Python while leaving the browser settings untouched?  I was really quite
> surprised when I found out that Python was using the browser's proxy
> settings on my behalf.

As I recall, you can do this by passing an empty container (can't remember
whether its a list or dict) to the URL opener factory.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen ACT 2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia


From nick at craig-wood.com  Sun Oct 10 05:30:02 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 09:30:02 GMT
Subject: complex data structure - insert value
References: <e7fe8d9e.0410091444.211313b5@posting.google.com>
	<10mgre414hoq816@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncmhu61.aqa.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Jeffrey Froman <jeffrey at fro.man> wrote:
>  spar wrote:
> 
> > Basically I'd like to do the same thing in Python. I've written a
> > convoluted test script where I can print an element:
> > 
> > print data[0]['CC'][1]
> > 
> > but I can't insert directly like I do in Perl (data[0]['CC'][1] =
> > $var).
> 
>  This should work fine, though in python this would result in assignment, not
>  insertion:
> 
> >>> #Assignment:
> >>> x=[{'foo':[1,2,3]}]
> >>> x[0]['foo'][1] = 'bar'
> >>> x
>  [{'foo': [1, 'bar', 3]}]
> 
> >>> #Insertion:
> >>> x[0]['foo'].insert(2, 'baz')
> >>> x
>  [{'foo': [1, 'bar', 'baz', 3]}]

The OP is relying on a perl feature called auto-vivification.  In perl
speak when  you do

  $data->[0]->{'CC'}->[1] = "spam";

The only thing that has to exist is the array reference in $data.
Perl will then auto-vivify the hash then the second arrayref.

Python doesn't do this in its standard list and dict objects.  So
either you create some subclasses which do (which isn't that hard -
need to overload __setitem__ in both cases and do the perl thing).

Alternatively you can do it the python way...  The original

foreach $bar_count(@bars) {
  foreach $el_count(@els) {
    $var = somefunc($bar_count,$el_count);
    $data[$bar_count]->{'CC'}->[$el_count] = $var;
  }
}

becomes

def somefunc(a,b): return 1
bars=[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
els=[7, 8]

data = []
for bar_count in bars:
  for el_count in els:
    var = somefunc(bar_count, el_count)
    while bar_count >= len(data):
      data.append({})
    l = data[bar_count].setdefault('CC', [])
    while el_count >= len(l):
      l.append(None)
    l[el_count] = var


>>> pprint(data)
[{},
 {'CC': [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, 1, 1]},
 {'CC': [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, 1, 1]},
 {'CC': [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, 1, 1]},
 {'CC': [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, 1, 1]},
 {'CC': [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, 1, 1]}]


Or you may prefer this which you can't do in perl (because keys of
hashes can only be strings)

data = {}
for bar_count in bars:
  for el_count in els:
    var = somefunc(bar_count, el_count)
    data[(bar_count,'CC',el_count)] = var

>>> pprint(data)
{(1, 'CC', 7): 1,
 (1, 'CC', 8): 1,
 (2, 'CC', 7): 1,
 (2, 'CC', 8): 1,
 (3, 'CC', 7): 1,
 (3, 'CC', 8): 1,
 (4, 'CC', 7): 1,
 (4, 'CC', 8): 1,
 (5, 'CC', 7): 1,
 (5, 'CC', 8): 1}

It does't produce quite the same data structures but it may be useful
for you.

However one thing I've noticed from converting quite a few perl
programs to python is that constant 'CC' in a hash is indicative of
the fact that you really should be defining a class, of which CC
becomes an attribute or method.  In perl the way is to define complex
data structures of hashes and lists, but in python because its so much
easier to create a class when you want it, do that.

So whenever you see $hash->{constant_string} you should be thinking -
hmm shouldn't that be a class.  And when you've made it a class you'll
find that you have functions which should be methods of that class,
and before you know it you'll find your program looks a lot tidier!

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct  8 05:50:59 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:50:59 +0200
Subject: Determining whether it's a file or a directory?
References: <pan.2004.10.08.09.39.09.841069@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ck5ntm$dh1$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Dfenestr8 wrote:

> os.listdir("path") returns the names of all the items in a directory ok,
> but I need to know whether the item is a file or a directory.
> 
> Can anybody tell me how this could be done?

The standard way would be to perform

os.path.isdir(os.path.join(path, dir_or_file))

on the item in question, but

>>> import os
>>> for path, dirs, files in os.walk("path"):
...     break
...
>>> dirs
['only', 'directories']
>>> files
['some', 'files']
>>>

gives you directories and files in separate lists.

Peter



From faheem at email.unc.edu  Sat Oct  9 02:50:20 2004
From: faheem at email.unc.edu (Faheem Mitha)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 06:50:20 GMT
Subject: integer type conversion problem/question
Message-ID: <slrncmf2hc.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>

Hi,

I'm not sure what would be more appropriate, so I'm ccing it to both
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ and comp.lang.python, with followup to
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++.

While working with a random number generator in the context of a mixed
Python/C++ programming problem. I encountered a vexing type
conversion problem.

Briefly, the situation is as follows.

I have a integer in Python (Python integers are implemented as C long
ints).

This is passed to a function in C++ which converts it (supposedly) to
an unsigned int, modifies it and then passes it back to Python. This
is done since the random number generator uses unsigned ints.

Python attempts to convert it to a Python integer, and if it is too
large, converts it into a Python long. (Both integer and long are
Python types).

Now, my program crashes, because at some point the unsigned integer
passed to Python becomes too long to be represented as an (unsigned)
int, and I get an overflow error.

OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int

An example of such a number is 2321871520. Python thinks this should
be a long, but my C++ code seems to handle it as an unsigned int, and
passes it to Python as such. When Python converts it to a long and
tries to pass it back, I get a runtime error.

Python gives:

In [1]: 2321871520
Out[1]: 2321871520L


I tried compiling the following fragment of code (header ommitted) and
got a compiler warning:  warning: this decimal constant is unsigned
only in ISO C90.

I'm not sure what to make of this.

*******************************
int main()
{
  unsigned int a = 2321871520;
  cout << a << endl;
  return 0;
}
*********************************

I find all this a little strange. Since in theory Python ints are
larger than C ints (since Python ints are implemented as C long ints),
there should be (in theory) no problem converting C unsigned ints to
Python integers (corresponding to C long integers) but in practice
there is. Can anyone enlighten me as to this puzzling situation?
Thanks.

I'd be happy to give more details as necessary. I realise the above
may not be entirely clear, but excessive detail may be confusing.
Please CC me on any reply. Thanks.

                                                          Faheem.


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Oct 29 14:53:42 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 18:53:42 GMT
Subject: Real-time graphs
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
	<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2ufhtmF29bd1tU1@uni-berlin.de>

MJR <pynode at centrum.cz> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
> news:<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>...
> > On 2004-10-28, MJR <pynode at centrum.cz> wrote:
> > 
> > > just wondering what options I would have if I wanted to use Python to
> > > produce real-time graphs.
> > 
> > What do you mean by "real-time"?
> > 
> > If you want to display a "live" waveform at 50fps, then I'm not
> > aware of anything.
> 
> Need to display data read from telemetry systme. Data might change in
> order of 1000/s. Not every sample will be displayed, but still need
> something close to 100sps

If you mean 100 graphs per second, I don't think commodity PC hardware
will do it.

Displaying 1 graphs/second, might be more reasonable, depending on the
quality of graph you want.  Gnuplot is the canonical answer.  But, if
you want fast character plot on your terminal (just for visual check),
then you could probably display more than 1 graphs/second.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 15 08:40:47 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:40:47 +0200
Subject: importing over network
References: <ckod02$lk9$1@planja.arnes.si>
Message-ID: <ckogg9$rp$02$1@news.t-online.com>

I never worked with them, but there seems to be a mechanism named "import
hook" - google for it. That might be what you are looking for.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From agriff at tin.it  Fri Oct  1 07:33:57 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:33:57 GMT
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
References: <4e4a11f8.0409232355.6ba0468d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.3834.1096015522.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:32:31 +0100, Michael Hoffman
<m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote:

>[Andrea Griffini]
> >[Greg Ewing]
>>>[Alex Martelli]
>>>>I think it's in fact very nice syntax:
>>>This is a hack. Don't do it.
>> Who are you to question what Him, the Great Alex, says about it ?
>
>Who are you to question what Greg Ewing says?

Are we going to go around in circles forever asking
each other "who are you to say this" ?

>I'm having trouble figuring out whether the rest of this message is 
>supposed to be ironic or sarcastic or something. I can say with 
>certainty that it is pretty silly.

It's a 7am posting, so please be forgiving at least
for that reason.

I didn't reply to Alex message because it's clear that he has
a very personal problem with me (and ... no, I've no idea why).
My decision so was to stop feeding his hate and I ignored him;
that one is a problem he has with me and not the other way
around... may be he can try to find a solution inside himself
or talking to a good psychotherapist... I don't think I can
be of any help about it.

What kind of surprised me is however that no one else contested
the nonsenses and/or irrelevant facts in his message. So I came
to the conclusion that here we're leaving the land of logic.

I saw just one message saying what I (as a newbie to python)
think is obvious to at least anyone with a reasonable brain
and cold enough to think without prejudice; i.e. that defining

    def foo(x, cache=[])

when you've no intention to receive that parameter is a purely,
simply, uncontestably, stinking, ugly hack (also IMO adding
underscores to that "cache" name is not making this hack really
any prettier).

And, in case you're really interested, I'm just a programmer
with an apparently tweaked sense of humor that approached
python very recently (that's why I don't consider myself part
of the python "world", yet).

Andrea



From maney at pobox.com  Tue Oct 12 13:36:47 2004
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:36:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Ubuntu Linux loves Python
References: <cjmc42$420$1@wheel2.two14.net>
	<TcudnSI9uOABJ8PcRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
	<5db4fffa.0410021045.69d078e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckh4nf$802$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Harald Armin Massa <ghum at gmx.net> wrote:
> Mark Shuttleworth (= first Python programmer in space) explained his
> plans to initiate another Linux distribution (also knowing that there
> is not really a shortage of Linux distributions)

I hadn't realized that Mark was also known for his interest in Python,
but that would help explain the enthusiasm.

There are, indeed, many Linux distributions; too many to keep track of.
Ubuntu is leaping for the target of the average user's desktop, and
from what I've seen so far they're certainly headed in the right
direction, while keeping most of the advantages of Debian's solid
underpinnings.  I think Cally's new AMD machine is going to be running
Ubuntu when it lands on her desk... sometime Real Soon Now.  ;-)

The first official release, Warty Warthog, is scheduled for October
20th, a week after the final RC.  But really, you just grab the daily
CD and then keep current - just like Debian, though the last week's been
very busy as they work over the rough edges.  I guess that's a
characteristic difference that goes with having a release schedule:
package churn peaks near the end of the run-up rather than dwindling
away to a trickle as things settle down.

(I'm only following up on-list because it's not gotten out of hand. 
I'm actually feeling a little guilty, as I've been too busy to look
into Ubuntu's Python support any more deeply than noticing that, yep,
they do install a lot of those add-on batteries in the default setup.)

-- 
Self-pity is like sitting there and peeing your pants:
at first, it's warm and comfy, but pretty soon it gets cold
and then it starts to stink.  - anonymous, as is traditional


From alia_khouri at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  2 16:35:57 2004
From: alia_khouri at yahoo.com (Alia Khouri)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 13:35:57 -0700
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
Message-ID: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>

Recently, I've been fortunately placed in a position to possibly
mandate the use of python for certain tasks in my new organization.

Now, I've inherited an environment which is windows-centric, lacking
in knowledge about scripting, and somewhat sub-standard in terms of
productivity. I've also inherited a set of pre-existing systems which
I have to deal with and manage:

- Peoplesoft ERP
- Java webframework based on webwork/hibernate/jboss/mysql
- Lotus Notes/Domino

Given this context, I'm mulling over strategies to encourage the
productivity-enhancing benefits and 'joy' of python scripting to my
developers. Of course, I'd rather be persuasive than coercive.

Any ideas?

Many Thanks.

Alia K


From srijit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 23:52:02 2004
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 20:52:02 -0700
Subject: Example Code - Python+PythonNet, Ironpython, Boo
References: <221d8dbe.0409302041.3798265d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0410011952.1a45ef12@posting.google.com>

Hello,
There are mistakes in the comments. I shall correct it.

With regards,
Srijit

srijit at yahoo.com wrote in message news:<221d8dbe.0409302041.3798265d at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> Here is an example code of xml writer in Python+PythonNet, Ironpython
> and Boo. The codes look very similar.
> 
> Regards,
> Srijit
> 
> Python + PythonNet:
> 
> import CLR
> import CLR.System
> from CLR.System import Console as CLR_Console
> import CLR.System.Xml as CLR_Xml
> 
> true = 1
> false = 0
> filename = "test1.xml"
> writer = CLR_Xml.XmlTextWriter(filename, None);
> #~ Use indenting for readability.
> writer.Formatting = CLR_Xml.Formatting.Indented;
> 
> writer.WriteComment("XML in Boo Language");
> 
> #~ Write an element (this one is the root).
> writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");
> 
> #~ Write the namespace declaration.
> writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", None,
> "urn:schoolnames");
> 
> writer.WriteStartElement("School");
> 
> #~ Lookup the prefix and then write the ISBN attribute.
> prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
> writer.WriteEndAttribute();     
> 
> #~ Write the title.
> writer.WriteStartElement("city");
> writer.WriteString("Madurai");
> writer.WriteEndElement();
>   
> #~ Write the price.
> writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");
> 
> #~ Write the style element.
> writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
> writer.WriteEndElement();
> 
> #~ Write the end tag for the book element.
> writer.WriteEndElement();
> 
> #~ Write the close tag for the root element.
> writer.WriteEndElement();
>  
> #~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
> writer.Flush();
> writer.Close();
> 
> #~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
> doc = CLR_Xml.XmlDocument();
> #~ Preserve white space for readability.
> doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
> #~ Load the file
> doc.Load(filename);
> 
> #~ Write the XML content to the console.
> CLR_Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);
> 
> 
> Ironpython:
> 
> from System import *
> from System.Xml import *
> 
> true = 1
> false = 0
> filename = "test1.xml"
> writer = XmlTextWriter(filename, None);
> #~ Use indenting for readability.
> writer.Formatting = Formatting.Indented;
> 
> writer.WriteComment("XML in Boo Language");
> 
> #~ Write an element (this one is the root).
> writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");
> 
> #~ Write the namespace declaration.
> writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", None,
> "urn:schoolnames");
> 
> writer.WriteStartElement("School");
> 
> #~ Lookup the prefix and then write the ISBN attribute.
> prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
> writer.WriteEndAttribute();     
> 
> #~ Write the title.
> writer.WriteStartElement("city");
> writer.WriteString("Madurai");
> writer.WriteEndElement();
>   
> #~ Write the price.
> writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");
> 
> #~ Write the style element.
> writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
> writer.WriteEndElement();
> 
> #~ Write the end tag for the book element.
> writer.WriteEndElement();
> 
> #~ Write the close tag for the root element.
> writer.WriteEndElement();
>  
> #~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
> writer.Flush();
> writer.Close();
> 
> #~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
> doc = XmlDocument();
> #~ Preserve white space for readability.
> doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
> #~ Load the file
> doc.Load(filename);
> 
> #~ Write the XML content to the console.
> Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);
> 
> 
> Boo:
> 
> import System
> import System.Xml from System.Xml
> 
> filename = "test1.xml"
> writer = XmlTextWriter(filename, null);
> #~ Use indenting for readability.
> writer.Formatting = Formatting.Indented;
> 
> writer.WriteComment("XML in Boo Language");
> 
> #~ Write an element (this one is the root).
> writer.WriteStartElement("EducationalCentres");
> 
> #~ Write the namespace declaration.
> writer.WriteAttributeString("xmlns", "schname", null,
> "urn:schoolnames");
> 
> writer.WriteStartElement("School");
> 
> #~ Lookup the prefix and then write the ISBN attribute.
> prefix = writer.LookupPrefix("urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteStartAttribute(prefix, "NAME", "urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteString("ABCD International School");
> writer.WriteEndAttribute();     
> 
> #~ Write the title.
> writer.WriteStartElement("city");
> writer.WriteString("Madurai");
> writer.WriteEndElement();
>   
> #~ Write the price.
> writer.WriteElementString("Students", "500");
> 
> #~ Write the style element.
> writer.WriteStartElement(prefix, "Syllabus", "urn:schoolnames");
> writer.WriteString("IGCSE");
> writer.WriteEndElement();
> 
> #~ Write the end tag for the book element.
> writer.WriteEndElement();
> 
> #~ Write the close tag for the root element.
> writer.WriteEndElement();
>  
> #~ Write the XML to file and close the writer.
> writer.Flush();
> writer.Close();
> 
> #~ Read the file back in and parse to ensure well formed XML.
> doc = XmlDocument();
> #~ Preserve white space for readability.
> doc.PreserveWhitespace = true;
> #~ Load the file
> doc.Load(filename);
> 
> #~ Write the XML content to the console.
> Console.Write(doc.InnerXml);


From vegeta.z at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 03:39:35 2004
From: vegeta.z at gmail.com (Alexander Kervero)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 03:39:35 -0400
Subject: urllib2 documentation
References: <cjngnm$pi5$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <cjoacj$snt$1@sea.gmane.org>


 mm, i need more than the urlopen method, and the python.org
 documentation is not usefull enough, the library has strange ways of
 working, i even started debuging it to kind of see how it works but
 not much luck. I found a chapter in the book 'dive into python' using
 it, but i still  dont fully understand how it works and how to use it
 to its potential.




From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  1 08:39:43 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:39:43 -0400
Subject: Test html
In-Reply-To: <415d4126$0$3069$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
References: <415bf448$0$21152$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<415cee92$0$948$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<415CF3F7.2070402@holdenweb.com>
	<415d4126$0$3069$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <hic7d.280859$4o.24562@fed1read01>

Michel Claveau - abstraction m?ta-galactique non triviale en fuite 
perp?tuelle. wrote:

> Bonjour !
> 
> 
>>>>en Francais "verbing a noun" ?
> 
> 
> "Cr?er un verbe d'apr?s un nom".  L'expression anglaise n'a pas d'?quivalent
> en fran?ais.
> 
> 
> Mais, en fran?ais, on n'a pas le droit de "verbing a noun"
> 
En Anglais aussi on n'a pas le droit, mais on le vu toujours. "pont?" 
representait "bridged" en Anglais. On comprendrait que mon Francais est 
execrable, comme beaucoup des Anglais.

regards
  Steve


From wwitzel3 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 16:44:51 2004
From: wwitzel3 at gmail.com (Wayne Witzel III)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:44:51 -0700
Subject: Using os.system() and string concatenation
In-Reply-To: <loom.20041012T221252-992@post.gmane.org>
References: <7a2229ee041012114353157c1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<ckh9kr$q16$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<7a2229ee04101212215fadcb18@mail.gmail.com>
	<loom.20041012T221252-992@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a2229ee041012134429aaa52a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:15:57 +0000 (UTC), Steven Bethard
<steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wayne Witzel III <wwitzel3 <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > No, I was properly inserting the spaces. When I changed it to a print
> > statement and executed the resulting output, it worked just fine.
> 
> Not sure if I understand exactly what you said here, but just to be clear, the
> print statement inserts spaces:
> 
> >>> x, y, z = 'x', 'y', 'z'
> >>> print x, y, z
> x y z
> >>> x + y + z
> 'xyz'
> >>> print x + y + z
> xyz
> >>> import sys
> >>> sys.stdout.write(x + y + z)
> xyz
> 
> So if you're saying the output of a print statement works, but the string
> concatenation doesn't then yes, it does sound like you're not inserting spaces.
> 

Ok, here is what I had.

os.system("/usr/sbin/useradd"+ " -d " + user[0] + " -s " + user[1] + "
" + user[3])
 
when I change os.system() to print .. it outputs just fine and I can
copy and paste the results and they execute. Just using os.system()
they do not execute unless I place the string in cmd variable first.

cmd = "/usr/sbin/useradd"+ " -d " + user[0] + " -s " + user[1] + " " + user[3]
os.system(cmd)

This works fine.

It was not a white space issue. Since I copied the exact string
between () and pasted it to the variable and it worked.


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 15:23:05 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 12:23:05 -0700
Subject: Open Source License Question
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410271123.5a7e68d9@posting.google.com>

"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA at rogers.com>...
> Michael, I have one comment in-line (see below), but other than that I can 
> only say that I chose GPL for my own project.  It may discourage use of my 
> code for commercial purposes but it might even be pretentious to expect that 
> something like that would ever happen.  

A lot of people use python as part of their job and are active
participants in teh python community. A lot of what I write are
library modules to do a particular job. Using the GPL means someone is
unable to use your work in a business setting. i don't expect other
people to sell products containing my work - but neither do I want to
prevent them from being able to use it.

> On the other hand, I was more 
> interested in the advantages of open-source and I wanted to enforce that as 
> much as possible.  I did some research of my own at the time (recently, 
> actually) but I didn't go much into details and I didn't study other 
> licenses in detail either, but I chose GPL in large part because it is the 
> most widely used.
> 
> I tried to find some of the web pages that I read when I was doing my 
> research but I couldn't.  However, I stumbled upon an article that I didn't 
> see before and that is very much in line with my thoughts.  Here's a link: 
> http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/gpl-compatible.html.

Sure - if I allow my work to be relicensed then it will be GPL
compatible. I don't like the GPL itself.

> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Dan
> 
> "Michael Foord" <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6 at posting.google.com...
> > I'd like to formalise slightly the license I release my projects
> > under. At the moment it's 'free to use, modify, distribute and
> > relicense'. This is basically fine as I don't want t oprevent people
> > using my work in commercial settings - but I would like to retain the
> > right to be identified as the author. I'd also like to prevent people
> > selling derivative works where my stuff forms the substantial part of
> > the poduct.
> 
> Michael, I think it's going to be hard to get what you want.  I don't see 
> how you can give a lot of freedom ("I don't want to prevent people using my 
> work in commercial settings") and, at the same time, achieve something like 
> "to prevent people selling derivative works where my stuff forms the 
> substantial part of the poduct".  I'm no lawyer, but I don't think you can 
> define in a license what is a "substantial part of the product".
> 

I've done some legal training - English law can be reasonably sensible
when it comes to definitions of words. You could even pin it down to
something as specific as 'more than 30% of the lines of source code'.
In programming terms it's a meaningless measure - but you have to
start somewhere. I don't think I can afford to sue anyone
anyway...........

Regards,


Fuzzy


> > I'd prefer to use an OSI approved license - but it's not essential.
> > I've been browsing through them and I can't quite see any that
> > *exactly* fits the bill. Before I draft my own I wondered if anyone
> > had a reccomendation.
> >
> > I don't need to require people to make a list of amendments if they
> > change things. This puts the Python license out. I also don't mind
> > people relicensing derivative works - a simple thanks in the
> > documentation and a link to the homepage is my basic requirement.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Fuzzy
> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 18:50:44 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:50:44 -0300
Subject: [ANN] PySQLite 1.0
In-Reply-To: <1gl9dev.1j87pnh1j1dlmvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4368.1097005231.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl9dev.1j87pnh1j1dlmvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041006155012a9e692@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:45:05 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:
> 
> > =============================
> > Announcement for PySQLite 1.0
> > =============================
> >
> > I'm pleased to announce that PySQLite has reached version 1.0 now.
> 
> Cheers and celebrations!!!  It's always important to hear when a
> developer deems his code mature and solid enough to risk the "1.0" label
> -- and this goes double for the _excellent_ PySQLite, which was a pretty
> solid and mature and _incredibly useful_ piece of code for quite a while
> already.  Bravo Gerhard!
> 
> I hope the DBAPI SIG's efforts to make a better DBAPI 3.0 aren't quite
> stalled...?  I think it's high time to standardize down to ONE format
> for argument substitution and support _iteration_ on fetches rather than
> having to either fetch one, or a list... that's a minimum set on which I
> hope agreement could be reached...

I fear that this will only happen when our loved BDFL blesses one
interface, either directly or indirectly (by delegating, and somehow
enforcing a PEP written by others). Barring that there will always be
some level of disagreement, and semi incompatible drivers will stil
lbe the norm.

(I have echoed similar thoughts on AMK's blog a few days ago,
regarding his call for a focus on the standard library for the
upcoming Python release. For some things, there will _never_ be a real
consensus, unless someone with _real_ power puts an end to the
discussion. Period).
 
> For a far more ambitious goal, look al psycopg2 -- YUM... adaptation
> roolz!!!  (My secret dream is to have psycopg2 and PySQLite 2.0 support
> the same API -- at which point I will care little what the DBAPI does,
> since, unless a client twists my arm _and_ dangles bags of gold in front
> of me, PostgreSQL and SQLite are the only two RDBMSs I really
> need...!-).  Considering the nationalities of the psycopg[2] and
> PySQLite developers, might I suggest rekindling the goot olt Rome-Berlin
> Axis, or would that automatically invoke Goodwin's Law & kill the
> thread?-)

I don't know. I thought that Godwin's law (spelled with one 'o' only,
I think) when applied to python-list involved either linguistics or
aesthethical discussions :-)
 
> Alex
> 
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 28 12:32:31 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 16:32:31 GMT
Subject: Real-time graphs
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-28, MJR <pynode at centrum.cz> wrote:

> just wondering what options I would have if I wanted to use Python to
> produce real-time graphs.

What do you mean by "real-time"?

If you want to display a "live" waveform at 50fps, then I'm not
aware of anything.

I use gnuplot-py quite successfully to do oscilloscope and
strip-chart type displays at up to about 2-3 frames per second.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Being a BALD HERO
                                  at               is almost as FESTIVE as a
                               visi.com            TATTOOED KNOCKWURST.


From les_ander at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 14:55:20 2004
From: les_ander at yahoo.com (les ander)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 11:55:20 -0700
Subject: printing with variable length of list
Message-ID: <a2972632.0410181055.50898f64@posting.google.com>

Hi,
suppose I have a list
d=[1.2 , 31.1, 1.001]
in general i will not know the size of d
however, I would like to print them out nicely in the row format
such as:
print "%-10f "* len(d) % d

however, the above line does not work--python says that float
argument is required.
So  i did
print "%-10s "* len(d) % map(str,d)
But now I get:
TypeError: not enough arguments for format string

please help
thanks


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Oct 20 03:37:24 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:37:24 GMT
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1gly5qo.1l15w5scsv08vN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<20041019190851.GA6740@kostyrka.org>
	<mailman.5190.1098212227.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glxart.nyjrdkvdbv0qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5199.1098225047.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gly5qo.1l15w5scsv08vN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <UAodd.2121$%h1.1040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex
> "The goal is to silence the compiler" is a common mindset, quite
> understandable given the popular and reasonable shop rule "-Wall, and
> can't be checked in until it given no warnings".  Not exclusive to lazy
> or inexperienced coders.  Still, you do have a point here.

One shop I worked in, in fact my first commercial job, ignored
warnings.  Didn't even try casting.  The framework used void*
function pointers for the three main event handlers, which could
take different argument in certain cases.

My first job was to learn how to build the system.  The second
week I cleaned up the 1,200 or so warnings (judicious use of
unions; didn't need many casts) and found the half dozen actual
errors embedded in those warnings.

I used the term "code mucking" for that case.  As in "stable
mucking" (cleaning out horse manure).  Doing a search now and
it appears that phrase is rarely used, and even less frequently
with that meaning.  Mostly "mucking" is used in the phrasal
verbs "mucking about", "mucking up", or "mucking with".

Huh, and it comes from the Middle English "muk" meaning "dung"
and not as I conjectured a bowdlerized version of a stronger
rhyming expletive.

To any maintenance programmers out there, feel free to use
it as needed.  Perhaps in the retelling of the labors of
Hercules as a programmer he'll use a refactoring browser to
clean the Augean code base.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From Sylvain.Thenault at logilab.fr  Mon Oct 25 06:01:27 2004
From: Sylvain.Thenault at logilab.fr (Sylvain =?iso-8859-1?Q?Th=E9nault?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:01:27 +0200
Subject: [ANN] APyCot 0.5.2
Message-ID: <20041025100127.GF1118@logilab.fr>

Hi there,

I'm pleased to announce a new APyCot release. This is a minor release,
mainly existing to follow an API change into the latest PyLint release.

If you want to download it or to get some information about Apycot, 
please visit our web site :

http://www.logilab.org/projects/apycot


About APyCot:
Apycot is an Automated Pythonic Code Tester. Use it to daily run your 
tests and generate reports about code or document quality. Most options
you may look for are already implemented.


Enjoy !
-- 
Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France).

http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 27 02:10:44 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:10:44 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417ef4b9.863273391@news.oz.net>

On 25 Oct 2004 21:05:30 -0700, kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik) wrote:

>> The question is how small is small? Less than 2**7? Less than 2**15? 
>> Less than 2**31? Less than 2**63? And what's the significance of powers 
>> of two? And what happens if you move from a 32 bit machine to a 64 bit 
>> one? (or a 1024 bit one in a hundred years time?)
>
>less than 2**31 most of the time & hardly ever greater than 2**63 - no
>matter if my machine is 32-bit, 64-bit or 1024-bit. the required range
>depends on the data   u want 2 store in the variable & not on the
>hardware.
r u pstg fm a cel fone?
Anyway, you might like Ada. Googling for ada reference manual gets

    http://www.adahome.com/rm95/
----
Examples (buried in lots of language lawyer syntax stuff, maybe there's
a lighter weight manual ;-)

(33)
    Examples of integer types and subtypes: 

(34)
       type Page_Num  is range 1 .. 2_000;
       type Line_Size is range 1 .. Max_Line_Size;
(35)
       subtype Small_Int   is Integer   range -10 .. 10;
       subtype Column_Ptr  is Line_Size range 1 .. 10;
       subtype Buffer_Size is Integer   range 0 .. Max;
(36)
       type Byte        is mod 256; -- an unsigned byte
       type Hash_Index  is mod 97;  -- modulus is prime

----

>
>>  > PEP 237 says, "It will give new Python programmers [...] one less
>>  > thing to learn [...]". i feel this is not so important as the quality
>>  > of code a programmer writes once he does learn the language.
>> 
>> The thing is, the int/long cutoff is arbitrary, determined soley by 
>> implemetation detail. 
>
>agreed, but it need not be that way. ints can be defined to be 32-bit
>(or 64-bit) on all architectures.
So what's your point? That you're used to 32 and 64 bit registers?
Is signed two's (decided that was possessive, but maybe it's plural?;-)
complement the specific flavor you like? And python should offer these
constrained integer types? Why don't you scratch your own itch and see
if it's just a passing brain mite ;-)

>
>
>> A much better idea is the judicious use of assertions.
>> 
>> assert x < 15000
>> 
>> Not only does it protect you from runaway numbers, it also documents 
>> what the expected range is, resulting in a much better "quality of code"
>
>such an assertion must be placed before avery assignment to the
>variable - & that's tedious. moreover, it can give u a false sense of
>security when u think u have it wherever needed but u've forgotten it
>somewhere.
>
>a 32-bit limit is a crude kind of assertion that u get for free, and
>one u expect should hold for most variables. for those few variables
>it doesn't, u can use a long.

If you are willing to make your variables exist in an object's attribute
name space, you can define almost any behavior you want. E.g., here's
a class that will make objects that will only allow integral values within
the limits you specify to be bound to names in the attribute space. Since it's
guaranteed on binding, the retrieval needs no test.

 >>> import sys
 >>> class LimitedIntSpace(object):
 ...     def __init__(self, lo=-sys.maxint-1, hi=sys.maxint):
 ...         self.__dict__[''] = (lo, hi)
 ...     def __setattr__(self, vname, value):
 ...         if not isinstance(value,(int, long)):
 ...             raise TypeError,'Only integral values allowed'
 ...         lo, hi = self.__dict__['']
 ...         if value < lo: raise ValueError, '%r < %r (lower limit)' %(value, lo)
 ...         if value > hi: raise ValueError, '%r > %r (high limit)' %(value, hi)
 ...         self.__dict__[vname] = value
 ...
 >>> i3_10 = LimitedIntSpace(3,10)
 >>> for i in range(16):
 ...     try: i3_10.x = i; print (i,i3_10.x),
 ...     except ValueError, e: print e
 ...
 0 < 3 (lower limit)
 1 < 3 (lower limit)
 2 < 3 (lower limit)
 (3, 3) (4, 4) (5, 5) (6, 6) (7, 7) (8, 8) (9, 9) (10, 10) 11 > 10 (high limit)
 12 > 10 (high limit)
 13 > 10 (high limit)
 14 > 10 (high limit)
 15 > 10 (high limit) 


It defaults to your favored 32-bit range ;-)

 >>> i32 = LimitedIntSpace()
 >>> i32.x = sys.maxint
 >>> i32.y = -sys.maxint-1
 >>> i32.x += 1
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 9, in __setattr__
 ValueError: 2147483648L > 2147483647 (high limit)
 >>> i32.y -= 1
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 8, in __setattr__
 ValueError: -2147483649L < -2147483648 (lower limit)


Regards,
Bengt Richter


From nelson at monkey.org  Sat Oct 30 14:05:34 2004
From: nelson at monkey.org (Nelson Minar)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:05:34 GMT
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cpalldonksy.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>

Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> writes:
> Perl is going to change dramatically to become a more powerful and
> easier to (read|write) language.
> Is Python taking a similar step (-> Python 3) some time in the near future?

I sure hope not!


From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Wed Oct  6 16:30:31 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:30:31 -0400
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-1F2998.16303106102004@localhost>

In article <1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
 aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

> Andr? N?ss <andre.naess at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > One thing I liked about Lisp was the ability to use the question mark
> > (and the exclamation mark) in function names. [...]
> 
> Even though I haven't used Lisp extensively, I agree with you.  [...]
>
> ops which modify their arguments with a trailing bang, IS a great idea
> for readability. [...]
> 
> Ruby has this convention and it seems to work wonderfully well for them.
> I wish Python could grow it, too, but I don't think I stand any chance
> of convincing Guido -- perhaps somebody else can.

I also like this convention in Scheme, but I don't like the way it looks 
in an infix-laden language like Python.  

Whereas:
  (predicate? arg1 arg2 ... argn)

... looks good and legible to me, I find:

  predicate?(arg1, arg2, ..., argn)

... far less appealing, because of the juxtaposition of ?(.  

I realize this is purely a personal aesthetic distaste, but Python is 
generally quite a pretty language, and I'm afraid this addition, as 
sensible as it is, might work against that for comparatively little 
benefit.

Cheers,
-M

-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 15 16:29:20 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 23:29:20 +0300
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>
	<416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<mailman.4998.1097833203.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekjz3lly.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp6fb$gvi$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<du7sm8f24h4.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp90u$s9l$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <du7fz4f209r.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Jarek" == Jarek Zgoda <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> writes:

    Jarek> software. But as you may have read in GNU Public License,
    Jarek> if you link to non-free library, you must give special
    Jarek> permission in your license statement (as in the case of Psi
    Jarek> Jabber client). Since Eric3 is GPL-ed

I don't think GPL allows linking with non-free stuff at all. Not even
with special permissions. If it does, it's not GPL but some other,
GPL-like license.

    Jarek> software, only Detlev Offenbach can give this permission,
    Jarek> but he states in README, that "building for personal
    Jarek> purposes is permitted, but distribution is not". IANAL, but
    Jarek> I think GNU GPL does not allow such restriction. Hallo, any
    Jarek> lawyers around here?

Well, that does not sound at all like GPL. eric3 also doesn't appear
to be apt-gettable in Ubuntu (which distributes most of debian Sid in
"universe"), so there might be some unclear matters in its
licensing...


-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Oct 17 04:46:39 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:46:39 +0200
Subject: beginning index for generators
References: <mailman.5041.1097931341.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckrd7q$75n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<tPlcd.6045$gy1.3010@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cktbgm$7cj$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
>> def irange(start, stop, step):
> 
> Isn't that xrange?

No. That's what I would like xrange() to be. It has no artificial (if
generous) sys.maxint limit and can be open-ended, i. e. comprises the
itertools.count() functionality extended for step != 1.

>> def islice(iterable, start, step, stop):
> 
> And that's itertools.islice?

No, but it _calls_ itertool.islice() as you may have noted :-)
Its raison d'?tre is that it allows to pass the start, stop, and step
attributes of a slice object without looking into the special cases.
itertools.islice() works with different signatures instead of None default
values. When called with three parameters, only 'stop' may be None. Slice
literals cannot be that strict because they may have a negative step, in
which case start values of None and 0 have a different meaning.

I had all checks for special cases in the iterate class first and factored
them out as an afterthought because they made it harder to see how simple
'iterate' really was.
 
>> class iterate(object):
>>     def __init__(self, iterable):
>>         self.iterable = iterable
>>     def __getitem__(self, s):
>>         if not isinstance(s, slice):
>>             raise ValueError("supports only slices")
>>         start, stop, step = s.start, s.stop, s.step
>>         if hasattr(self.iterable, "__getitem__"):
> 
> And doesn't that test fail for dictionaries?

Yes, unfortunately. Discriminating between dictionaries and lists has been
deliberately left out. Is there a recommended way to do it? Looking for a
'keys' attribute maybe? Anyway, as long as something like iterate is not
built into the iterator protocol, it is up to the programmer to decide
whether it can help or do harm. Dictionaries may be wrapped somewhere up
the callstack:

>>> hasattr(iter({}), "__getitem__")
False

Peter




From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 18 05:57:59 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 02:57:59 -0700
Subject: Is it ok to use  -->  obj = object()?
References: <opsf1e9aww6yt6e7@news.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0410180157.37a5d983@posting.google.com>

aurora <aurora00 at gmail.com> wrote in message 
> Sometimes I find it useful to create an instance of some dummy class so  
> that I can bind abitrary attributes to it. I sometimes prefer this to  
> mapping object.
>
> >>> class A: pass
>  ...
> >>> a = A()
> >>> a.x = 1
> 
> >>> class B(object): pass
>  ...
> >>> b = B()
> >>> b.x = 1
>
> Rather that creating a dummy class, why not just instantiate from the  
> object class? However:

> >>> obj = object()
> >>> obj.x = 1

> I know I must have misunderstood something. Can you tell me what was wrong?

This is deja vu!
    You really should do a search before asking this.
It was discussed just a few days ago.
The answer is you can't do that.
object() isn't bent like that.
The internals just aren't there.
It cannot be used as a 'Bunch'.
Just use classes.
HTH, 
    M.E.Farmer


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 11:41:24 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:41:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5321.1098456297.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u45bhF263o38U2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041025T173601-611@post.gmane.org>

Oliver Fromme <olli <at> haluter.fromme.com> writes:

> For example, a function can take an argument that is
> either an integer or a string (or a list or whatever)
> and it does _not_ have to be known at compile time
> which of those is the case.  But the compiler _does_
> ensure that the function will work correctly for every
> case (by checking that the pattern matching covers
> every case, and within each case, the respective type
> of the argument _is_ known and is checked at compile
> time).
> 
> I call that dynamic.

I'm not clear from your description (maybe you could show an example or two?)
but I gather you could either be talking about union typing, where at compile
time a variable is declared as, e.g. (list OR int), or parametric polymorphism,
where a variable's type is parameterized by another type, e.g. list<type>.  In
either of these cases, I would typically still call it static typing because the
possible types are still resolved at compile time.  (The first will be handled
much like a C union, and the second will typically be stored as a list of
objects, with some run-time checking of type inserted, as in Java 1.5.)

Steve



From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Oct  7 16:34:43 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:34:43 -0700
Subject: ActivePython/IIS Request Concurrency
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F49@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Erik Rose wrote:
> First, thanks to everybody who's helped me with this problem,  
> especially Robert Brewer, who continually provided 
> encouragement that yes, my setup _can_ be made to work. :-)
> 
> Here's the beef: Python was acting serialized on my server 
> because IIS  
> goes to extra trouble to forcibly serialize _all_ ASP 
> requests made by  
> a given user within the scope of a given ASP "application". This  
> applies equally to Python, PerlScript, VBScript, etc. and has 
> nothing  
> to do with Python per se. Isn't that fun? IIS sets a cookie 
> (something  
> like Set-Cookie: 
> ASPSESSIONIDSQCARCQR=PPBNINLCAPCFOCDHMNPGCCFB; path=/)  
> on your first request and checks it on subsequent ones. It 
> apparently  
> keeps a separate queue of requests for each cookie, and no more than  
> one ASP script requested by an identically-cookied browser is 
> allowed  
> to run at a time. Thus, as long as you turn off cookies or 
> use a couple  
> different browsers in your testing, everything is nicely 
> concurrent. In  
> the wild, obviously, it will be unproblematic because each user will  
> get his own cookie. Phew!!  
> (http://groups.google.com/groups? 
> threadm=uopADcr%23DHA.4060%40TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl provided 
> the needed  
> breakthrough.)
> 
> Many thanks again to everybody who replied. I'm off to enjoy 
> my lovely  
> new language!
> 
> Cheers,
> Erik Rose
> Programmer/Analyst
> Pennsylvania State University
> 
> P.S. Robert was reporting that his stuff runs concurrently no matter  
> what he does. I'm guessing he either has cookies off or else has  
> unchecked "Enable session state" in IIS Manager for that 
> site. Either  
> of these true, Robert?

Why yes, I did turn off "Enable session state"! That was something I ran
into so early on in my foray into Python and ASP that I had forgotten
about it. :) So, turnabout being fair play, you just answered my
long-standing questions about how to get Sessions working with IIS!
Thank YOU. Now my web framework can be more complete, even if I don't
have a need for sessions myself. ;)


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 31 15:39:54 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 20:39:54 GMT
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ...
	python on ?)
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>	<sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5728.1099211579.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6MydncnkdcXecBncRVn-rA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <41854c03.1282435905@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:48:51 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>Josiah Carlson wrote:
>> You'll notice a project linked from the RubyOnRails site: Basecamp
>> (www.basecamphq.com), which looks quite spiffy.
>
>Spiffy indeed!
It would have to be, to warrant
http://www.basecamphq.com/terms.html
;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct  6 15:23:53 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:23:53 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <10m8hf0rkv5m000@corp.supernews.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

>>I could care less honestly.
>>    
>>
>
>I've always been curious about that phrase.  It seems to imply
>that you _do_ care, since it would be possible for you to care
>less than you do.  Shouldn't the expression be "I couldn't care
>less"?
>  
>

That's always been my thought.  Another cliche phrase that seems to me 
to be used counter to its explicit sense is the exclamation, "Oh the 
humanity!"  The context always seems to suggest that it's being used to 
imply INhumanity...

All of which highlights why I like Python -- clarity of expression! ;)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Wed Oct 20 05:37:02 2004
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:37:02 +0100
Subject: Yet more SMTP
References: <mailman.5170.1098195037.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<20041019182453.03406.00001616@mb-m25.aol.com>
Message-ID: <cl5bvv$imp$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>


"LutherRevisited" <lutherrevisited at aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041019182453.03406.00001616 at mb-m25.aol.com...

> On another note I still have one annoying glitch left in my email app.  The '='s
> that are put at the end of lines in the html portions of certain emails.

Is the e-mail encoded quoted-printable? If so:

>>> print 'Some stuff ending with ='.decode('quoted-printable')
Some stuff ending with




From steve at ferg.org  Mon Oct 25 08:40:12 2004
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 05:40:12 -0700
Subject: Reading XML like Python!
References: <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0410250440.41348893@posting.google.com>

Look at YAML...
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-matters23.html


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Mon Oct 11 13:07:50 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:07:50 -0600
Subject: Windows XP Balloon Tips?
In-Reply-To: <1d6cdae3041011094946722f33@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d6cdae3041011094946722f33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <416ABDE6.6050006@pythonapocrypha.com>

Daniel Bickett wrote:
> I liked the way GTray told me when I had new mail using the balloon
> tip, and so when I replicated the program in python for use with
> Private Messages on message boards, I naturally was interested in how
> to achieve the same result.
> 
> I've searched comp.lang.python, google, the python chm, and the python
> for windows chm, and none of them have yielded a single result.
> When the Python for Windows docs didn't have anything I figured it
> just wasn't possible yet, but I decided to ask here anyway. So, does
> anyone know of a way to use the Windows XP Balloon Tip feature with
> python? (namely wxPython, considering that's the GUI I use)

Yep, very possible - we use it in one of our apps (the internal debate wrt 
whether or not we should have a tray icon is another story ;-) ). If you just 
need to display the balloons then you can use ctypes to call the 
shell32.Shell_NotifyIconA function (Google for NotifyIcon on MSDN to learn the 
gory details).

If you also want to receive messages (mouse over, click, etc.) then you'll need 
to set up a message loop to handle the MSG_ICON_NOTIFY message - I used Venster 
for that.

-Dave


From jerf at jerf.org  Sat Oct  9 14:24:20 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 18:24:20 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:19:22 -0400, dataangel wrote:
> Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for detecting if 
> two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for strings shouldn't be 
> supported. Am I missing something?

The basic problem is that there is no obvious "xor on string" operation
*in general*, even if you stipulate "bitwise". In particular, what does it
mean to bitwise xor two different length strings?

"In general" is the key, here. You actually don't have strings,
conceptually, you have "tokens" or "commands" or something that happen to
be strings. I recommend creating a class to match this concept by
subclassing str... or even just write it directly without subclassing
string. You can then make __xor__(self, other) for that class do whatever
makes sense with your concept.

http://docs.python.org/ref/numeric-types.html

I can almost guarantee that you will later find other things to put into
that class. It may very well clean up a lot of code.


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Mon Oct  4 13:33:08 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:33:08 +0100
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk> <10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
	<cam7d.455$UP1.116@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<yfsacv5h224.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<slrnclvng4.u8f.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<yfs8yanetzp.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<mailman.4247.1096901234.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfsacv24cdn.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:50:18 +0100, Alexander Schmolck
> <a.schmolck at gmx.net> > Yes, that's why I mentioned the need for a
> "documented and *reasonably
>> reliable*" version in another post (the code also happens to be terribly
>> inefficient, but that's presumably not such a big concern).
>
> Shouldn't it be easier (and less contentious) to add the 'run' function to
> the commands module? I mean, messing with the os module may be a little bit
> harder, because most calls there simply mimic the standard library calls.

Well, I'm not particularly enamoured with the commands module (and it's unix
only). As long as the docs of os point in the right direction I'm not that
fuzzed where the functionality ends up, but I must say I find this "thin
wrapper" argument unconvincing -- it might be a great argument for not messing
with `system` (people expect it to work like the C-counterpart), but I don't
see why it would preclude an `os.run`:

a) os already contains plenty of convinience functions that don't have
   C-counterparts (removdirs, walk etc.) and generally it is not just an
   "close to the metal" type module, but simply what is used for the majority
   of os relevant stuff.

b) As such, it is not just used by a select few system programmers, but simply
   by about everyone who wants to use python for scripting. Given that python
   is intended as a scripting language particularly also for people who don't
   spend all their lives in front of computers and given that in this specific
   instance it performs poorly at that combination (inexperienced folks are
   needlessly likely to produce broken code for a fairly frequent and simple
   task and that even remains true for experienced programmers -- several
   regulars have claimed in this thread that they either got bitten by
   os.system or at least found the spawn* stuff difficult to use and to
   remember) my personal feeling is that the addition of `run` is well worth
   the "bloat".

Anyway, I think this horse has now been beaten to death -- either someone who
has the power to make inclusions has been convinced by now or it's not gonna
happen (at least not in the immediate future).


'as


From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  9 22:59:06 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 9 Oct 2004 19:59:06 -0700
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4538.1097192656.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8f17f4bc.0410080849.51fbdcfa@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62@posting.google.com>
	<a7a67196.0410082348.36fd45a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410091859.39a6c028@posting.google.com>

klappnase at web.de (klappnase) wrote in message news:<a7a67196.0410082348.36fd45a at posting.google.com>...
> alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali) wrote in message news:<8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62 at posting.google.com>...
> > > >You can set the text widget to be "disabled" to
> > > > keep the user from changing the contents.
> > 
> > How? I tryed putting diabled in there and disabled=yes and
> > disabled='yes'. None of them worked :(
> 
> Try state="disabled"
> 
> Michael

I tryed that and it stoped showing the text I want it to show :(


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 16:17:42 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:17:42 +0200
Subject: printing with variable length of list
References: <a2972632.0410181055.50898f64@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1glvhdt.1knswhmn4y1onN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

les ander <les_ander at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> suppose I have a list
> d=[1.2 , 31.1, 1.001]
> in general i will not know the size of d
> however, I would like to print them out nicely in the row format
> such as:
> print "%-10f "* len(d) % d

tuple(d) is one possibility, as Riccardo pointed out.  A small loop
might also be nice, and conceptually simple:

    for item in d:
        print '%-10f'%item,
    print

the comma at the end stops print from emitting a newline, and a space is
used between item; the print at the end ends the line.


Alex


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 14 20:26:26 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:26:26 -0700
Subject: Email problem
In-Reply-To: <20041014200309.17374.00001877@mb-m27.aol.com>
References: <20041014200309.17374.00001877@mb-m27.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20041014171950.096C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> Ok, I'm putting my email message together this way:
> for x in M.retr(i)[1]:
>             stringMail += x
>             stringMail += '\n'
>         inMail = email.message_from_string(stringMail)
> What I'm finding is in the html part of the message '='s are added to the end
> of lines that don't end in a tag which is completely messing up the display in
> my WxHTMLWindow I use to display messages.  Any thoughts?

One thing you should always do when creating email is making sure that
lines end with a CRLF pair.  Lines that only end with one or the other
but not both are not RFC 2822 compliant.  It may be the case that the '='
are added to lines that are ended improperly.

To fit in with what you are doing above:
    stringMail += x.rstrip() + '\r\n'

Though I would suggest against the generally slow repeated string
concatenation (for large numbers of concatenations), replacing it with:
mail = []
for x in M.retr(i)[1]:
    mail.append(x.rstrip())
inMail = email.message_from_string('\r\n'.join(mail))

Try that out and see how it works.

 - Josiah



From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Oct  5 13:16:31 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:16:31 -0400
Subject: Miscellaneous personal prejudices
References: <cjsh6t$m6u$1@lairds.us> <36i932-lr5.ln1@lairds.us>
	<1tudnWqDWMKcpf_cRVn-qg@rogers.com>
	<du7y8il4ntg.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<TeKdnac_dM00MP_cRVn-vw@rogers.com>
	<slrncm5joq.csg.slrn@toetsch.at>
Message-ID: <Lr6dnbrEY8FpS__cRVn-hA@rogers.com>

> No joke. But:
> http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/04/01/parrot.htm

That one is excellent.  It's the first time I've seen it.

Yeah, there is a good reason they have the date in the URL.

> SCNR, leo
> -- 
> Oct 05 18:53:58 lux siggen[21694]: reading next random sig
> Oct 05 18:53:58 lux siggen[21694]: Kernel panic: out of signatures
> Oct 05 18:53:58 lux siggen[21694]: Rebooting in 10 seconds.. 




From office at top-edv.at  Fri Oct  8 17:25:42 2004
From: office at top-edv.at (Bruno HIrsnik)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 23:25:42 +0200
Subject: [ZOPE] with links in Products ?
Message-ID: <ck70km$je$1@paperboy.Austria.EU.net>

If i make a symblic link in the Products folder to a add on this doesn't
work.
If i move the directory to the Products folder all works correct, what make
i
wrong ?

wbr
Bruno Hirsnik




From richie at entrian.com  Wed Oct 13 07:45:33 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:45:33 +0100
Subject: quoting %
In-Reply-To: <863c0ihmz7.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
References: <863c0ihmz7.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
Message-ID: <565qm0tskqudvt8ci5s68vakrvbhjlvpoq@4ax.com>


[Matthias]
> I need a string like this "foo '%value%'" for a database query but
> print "'%%s%'"%value gives me TypeError: not all arguments converted
> during string formatting. How does I quote the "%" sign in this case?

Double up the percent signs:

>>> print "foo '%%%s%%'" % 'spam'
foo '%spam%'

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From export at hope.cz  Mon Oct 18 12:01:03 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 09:01:03 -0700
Subject: SMTP question
References: <mailman.5074.1098001054.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<20041017043525.18077.00005365@mb-m03.aol.com>
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410180801.7cee89bb@posting.google.com>

lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited) wrote in message news:<20041017043525.18077.00005365 at mb-m03.aol.com>...
> To Josiah, sorry you're getting this twice, didn't realize you responded both
> in the mailgroup, and by email.  But to others, that didn't help, well, it did
> as far as me formating for a list, but I'm still not getting into Yahoo.  For
> my smtp server smtp.mail.yahoo.com, I just pasted directly from my Outlook
> settings which have always worked fine.  When I use s.login('bossierbossman',
> 'password') I get something like SMTP AUTH extension not supported by server,
> and when I just have s.connect() I get socket.error: (10061, 'Connection
> refused')

I also had a problem to find a mail server that could relay my emails.
So I do it this way: for a recepient's address  I find his mailserver
and send the email directly to it. No need to have a mail server
LAd


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Oct 10 05:56:29 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 09:56:29 GMT
Subject: xml file structure for use with ElementTree?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4661.1097393174.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <d4c0d480.0410082230.29766fac@posting.google.com><oPM9d.172$Bw1.90@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net><d4c0d480.0410090807.2a3ea1a2@posting.google.com>	<wF1ad.8002$UP1.5169@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4661.1097393174.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hH7ad.1031$Bw1.530@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

/F:
> remove is available on Element instances.  it's not available on ElementTree
> wrappers.

Ahh, didn't catch that in the post.  I wish the OP had
given a normal traceback instead of summarizing it.  Would
have made it easier to see that the "this code" in the
phrase "when I run this code" didn't actually refer to
the code I posted.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct 13 21:44:29 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 01:44:29 GMT
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4920.1097716237.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-14, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Besides that, Linux is Posix compliant and emulates Unix
>>> system calls to a large extend, and that also makes C a
>>> natural choice.
>> 
>> Not sure I follow on that point.  Any low level language that
>> can deal with a C "struct" and byte-addressible memory would be
>> fine.
>
> Well, Unix itself was written in C,

Originally it wasn't, but recent versions are.

> and a good part of the C standard library maps naturally to
> (or at least helps to implement) functions that are mandatory
> in a Posix-compliant OS.

True, but that has nothing to do with writing a kernel.  When
working in kernel space, you don't have access to Posix
services or the standard C library.  Since you can't use the
standard C library when writing a kernel, it doesn't matter
what language it was designed for.  Likewise for any of the
Posix standards that specify the API between an application and
the system libraries.

> This does not meant that other languages cant be used; it only
> means that C is a natural choice.

I still don't see why.

> Of course, you can provide a C-like interface for a Python program
> (for example). But a OS written in pure Python would make a much
> better use of the language if it provides a Pythonic interface. I
> believe we can agree on this point, dont you think?

Not really -- the interace between the kernel and user-space
isn't particulary C-oriented.  IIRC on the x86 platform, you
make a system call by loading values into registers and
executing an interrupt instruction.  You can't even make a
Linux system call on Linux using standard C.  You have to use
assembly language wrappers that convert between the system call
API and the C API.  It would be just as easy to make those
assembly language wrappers convert to a Pascal or Python API.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Isn't this my STOP?!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Oct 14 11:17:31 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:17:31 +0200
Subject: Working with Forms in MS Word
References: <mailman.4904.1097700494.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.14.15.17.30.780460@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:48:09 -0500 schrieb Greg Lindstrom:

> Greetings-
> 
> I have been asked if I can populate existing Forms in a Microsoft Word
> Document.  I have the book Python Programming on Win 32 (Hammond/Robinson)
> which addresses Microsoft products, but it does not address forms.  Has
> anyone attempted this?  And if so, would you pass along your knowledge?

Hi,

I tried to use Word via com and python's win32 module,
but it did not work well for me. (The Python module was
good, but not the office programm)

You can save ms-office documents as XML. This format
can be read and changed on any plattform. It was enough
for me to solve my problems. Maybe this helps you, too.

HTH,
 Thomas



From jerf at jerf.org  Sat Oct  9 14:09:50 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 18:09:50 GMT
Subject: Algorithm used by keyword 'in'
References: <lYS9d.144800$Kt5.79976@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.09.15.30.10.505058@jerf.org>

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 14:54:09 +0000, Derek Rhodes wrote:
> What algorithm is used here?

In addition to John Roth's post, see the bottom of
http://docs.python.org/ref/sequence-types.html , which will help you
create your own algorithms for your own classes, if you like.


From richie at entrian.com  Thu Oct  7 09:09:40 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:09:40 +0100
Subject: ctypes, error when calling function
In-Reply-To: <4165275e$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <4165275e$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <tofam0hevrphrcbnumttl15mkqcdqltkp1@4ax.com>


> AttributeError: function 'midiOutGetDevCaps' not found

Like a lot of Windows APIs, midiOutGetDevCaps exists in both ANSI and
Unicode variants.  You need to call midiOutGetDevCapsA or
midiOutGetDevCapsW according to whether you're using ANSI or Unicode.

Because you're using c_char in your MIDIOUTCAPS structure:

> ("szPname", c_char * MAXPNAMELEN)

you need to call the ANSI variant, midiOutGetDevCapsA.

When you're programming Windows in C, the API header files define
midiOutGetDevCaps to be either midiOutGetDevCapsA or midiOutGetDevCapsW
according to whether you're compiling an ANSI or Unicode application.
This is why any C-based sample code you might see doesn't have this
problem.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 21 18:33:34 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:33:34 +0200
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
References: <20041021081356.GA12496@mylene.ghaering.de>
	<mailman.5255.1098349524.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm17rf.1n3hurm1vtl1cbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Simon Brunning <simon.brunning at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:13:56 +0200, Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:
> 
> (snip)
> 
> > I think that a simple embedded relational database would be a good
> > thing to have in Python by default. And as Python 2.5 won't happen
> > anytime soon, there's plenty of time for developing it, getting it
> > stable, and integrating it.
> 
> I think it's a great idea.

Seconded.


> > One problem I see is that even the new PySQLite will grow and try to
> > wrap much of the SQLite API that are not directly related to the
> > DB-API. If such a thing is too complicated/big for the standard
> > library, then maybe it would be better to produce a much simpler
> > PySQLite, especially for the Python standard library that leaves all
> > the fancy stuff out. My codename would be "embsql".
> 
> I think it's important that we realise that if Python ships with a
> default database engine, its API will rapidly become the de-facto
> standard, eclipsing the DB-API if it is different in any way.

Good point.


> Which is not to say that the current DB-API should be used. There have
> been discussions elsewhere about improving and simplifying the DB-API
> - providing iterators, getting rid of all but one of the parameter
> styles, that kind of thing. Perhaps the best thing would be to agree a
> DB-API version 3.0 over on the DB SIG, then make sure that the built
> in module supports that.

Amen, hallelujah.


> > So, what would you like to see? "import sqlite", "import embsql", or
> > "pypi.install('pysqlite')" ?
> 
> I'd like to see a package into which you could plug different SQL
> database engines, with SQLLite as the default. So, you might do:
> 
> from sql import sql
> sqllite = sql.Engine()
> my_database = sqllite.Database('c:/mydatabese.db', 'user_id', 'password')
> 
> But you if you were using another engine, you'd only need to change this to:
> 
> from sql import sql
> from other_engine import other_engine
> other_database = sql.Engine(other_engine)
> my_database = other_database.Database('c:/myotherdatabese.db',
> 'user_id', 'password')
> 
> >From there on in, ideally you wouldn't have to change *anything*.

Young and idealistic, I assume.  Care to name two more SQL engines
accepting exactly the same dialect as sqlite...?-)


Alex


From bellmartin at bigpond.com  Thu Oct  7 03:29:32 2004
From: bellmartin at bigpond.com (Kat)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 00:29:32 -0700
Subject: End of file
Message-ID: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>

Hi ,
How do you identify the last line of a file? I am in a "for" loop and
need to know which is the last line of the file while it is being read
in this loop.

Thanks
Kat


From hellas_74 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 16 05:44:38 2004
From: hellas_74 at hotmail.com (Hellas)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:44:38 +0200
Subject: operation with strings and numbers
References: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it> <du7acun3kvz.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <ckqqp2$2om$1@news.flashnet.it>

I told "italian boy" only for my English that's orrible

Everyone says that in italian the english school is not good

Thanks for suppport


"Ville Vainio" <ville at spammers.com> ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:du7acun3kvz.fsf at mozart.cc.tut.fi...
>>>>>> "Hellas" == Hellas  <hellas_74 at hotmail.com> writes:
>
>    Hellas> Hello guy
>
>    Hellas> I'm italian boy, I need help for doing a strange thing
>    Hellas> with numbers
>
> Did you mean Italian SCHOOLboy, be any chance? Don't be afraid to say
> so, because everyone can guess anyway.
>
>
>
>    Hellas> I have a number from operation like this:
>    Hellas> a = float("010.123")
>    Hellas> b = float("001.124")
>    Hellas> p= a*b
>    Hellas> p="%06.3f" % p
>    Hellas> the resulted is "_11,278" where "_" is a space
>
> No, it isn't.
>
> In [6]: "%06.3f" % p
> Out[6]: '11.378'
>
>
> In [7]: "%07.3f" % p
> Out[7]: '011.378'
>
>    Hellas> I must to change the formatting of this number in "011278"
>    Hellas> but I don't known
>
> In [8]: "lunttaus".replace("t","")
> Out[8]: 'lunaus'
>
> -- 
> Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb 




From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Tue Oct  5 04:13:48 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 01:13:48 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0410050013.2628196d@posting.google.com>

Arich Chanachai <macrocosm at fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list at python.org>...

> Not sure I understand you here.  I want to implement messages like in 
> ObjC where if you send a msg to an object and that object does know what 
> to do with it, it can send the obj automatically to another object which 
> might know what to do with it.

You can implement this behaviour using Python's magic __getattr__
method and getattr function to request an attribute from another
object. See:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/ref/attribute-access.html

For real macros, you'll have to go to Lisp or Lisp derivatives such as
Dylan. The rest of the programming world is still catching up to 1958.
:p


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct  9 23:05:00 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 03:05:00 GMT
Subject: xml file structure for use with ElementTree?
In-Reply-To: <d4c0d480.0410090807.2a3ea1a2@posting.google.com>
References: <d4c0d480.0410082230.29766fac@posting.google.com>
	<oPM9d.172$Bw1.90@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<d4c0d480.0410090807.2a3ea1a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wF1ad.8002$UP1.5169@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Stewart Midwinter wrote:
> That's the ticket!  Unfortunately at the moment when I run this code I
> get the following error:'
> ElementTree instance has no attribute 'remove'
> but I'll try to work through that.

Perhaps you need a newer version of ElementTree?  I don't
know when 'remove' was added.

> The main appeal of ElementTree was so I could avoid having to learn a
> whole lot about XML in order to parse a simple file, but I am coming
> to the conclusion that ElementTree is only simple if you already have
> an understanding about XML.

The problem is that you also need to generate the XML file.
You could use ElementTree to do that, but I've not used
it that way yet.

XML syntax isn't that hard.  The summary is that everything
looks pretty much like this

   <tagname attrib="val">Content goes here</tagname>

The <tagname> is called an opening tag and the </tagname>
is called an opening tag.  The whole thing is called an
element.

There can be 0 or more attributes in the opening tag, but
none in the closing tag.  So the following are valid
opening tag names

   <tagname>
   <person name="Andrew">
   <person name="Andrew" city="Santa Fe">

There are ways to escape special characters in the
values for an attribute.  Only some characters are
allowed as tag names and attribute names.  The ':'
is the only special one.  It's used for namespaces.
That's more complicated and you'll need to look
elsewhere for details on that.  I don't believe duplicate
attribute names are allowed.  Even if they are, don't
use them.

The contents of an element can contain text and other
elements.  This is what makes it an element tree.
So the following is also valid

<person><name>Andrew</name><city>Santa Fe</city></person>

It's a matter of some preference about whether to put
data into attributes or as contents of an element.

As a shortcut, if there is no content then ending
the tag with a '/>' makes it both an opening tag and
a closing tag, so the following is a complete element.

   <person name="Andrew"/>

The first line of your XML document could contain
another sort of element called a processing directive.
It tells the XML parser how to process the rest of
the document.  It looks like this

<?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8'?>

Besides describing which XML definition is used
(there's only one I know about), this tells the
processor to interpret bytes as the UTF-8 encoding
of Unicode characters.  I believe the first few
bytes are also used to determing the byte ordering
in case the text is stored as big-endian or little-
endian "wide" unicode characters.

One final note.  Only one top-level element is
allowed in an XML file.  For example, this is allowed


<?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8'?>
<people>
  <person name="Andrew"/>
  <person name="Fred"/>
</people>

while this is not

<?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8'?>
<person name="Andrew"/>
<person name="Fred"/>

In other words there is only one root to the
element tree.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 09:40:26 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 06:40:26 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <z5adnVM1YNiBtvDcRVn-vw@giganews.com>
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
	<mailman.4810.1097648927.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<z5adnVM1YNiBtvDcRVn-vw@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <1097674827.12092.113.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 09:18 -0400, Istvan Albert wrote:
> Cliff Wells wrote:
> 
> 
> >>"Python-like" means very little. Make it run python code
> >>then you'll see a lot more interest from this group.
> 
> > If you didn't find it interesting, then why did you respond?  
> 
> To voice my opinion.

Terrific hobby.

>  > Also, what
> > makes you the spokesperson for the rest of the people on this list?  
> 
> You don't have to be a "spokesperson" to express the obvious

Well, I'd suggest that the several people who expressed interest and the
subsequent mention in the Python Daily URL makes your observation a
little less than obvious, but no less rude.


Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From danperl at rogers.com  Sat Oct  2 23:36:03 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 23:36:03 -0400
Subject: idiom for debug code? [1/1]
References: <y6SdnUz8sr673sHcRVn-gA@rogers.com>
	<wfmdnXvIef4v1cHcRVn-vQ@comcast.com>
	<6tadnfHqDdcg9cHcRVn-hQ@rogers.com>
	<0DoHajVjBwXBFwhr@hiredatum.demon.co.uk>
	<yeadnZwsvvKa7cLcRVn-pA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <uJGdnXr4Yeg57sLcRVn-ig@rogers.com>


"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message 
news:yeadnZwsvvKa7cLcRVn-pA at rogers.com...
> Thanks, Ian.  It's late Saturday for me now so I will look more at the 
> code later, but so far what I get from what you sent is only dprint and 
> that is a logging utility.  That's not what I was looking for.  OTOH, I 
> see that your posting was probably only a first installment, so I am 
> looking forward to more details, including more parts from your utility 
> module.

I just realized that maybe you meant that posting to be the only one and not 
an installment, hence the one of ONE ([1/1]).  Too bad.  Could you post also 
the rest of your utility script?  Or would that break some copyright (do you 
own it?)?

> The solution that you are using for the dprint utility involves a global 
> variable.  How do you change its value?  Is that still by making a change 
> in the code, even if the change is only one place?  I would like a 
> solution that does not involve any change in the code and is determined 
> strictly at run-time.  I was thinking of something like an environment 
> variable or a configuration attribute.  Of course, your solution can be 
> adapted to set the global variable based on an environment variable or 
> based on configuration.
>
> As for rewriting your code, did you take a look at the newsgroup thread 
> about the new logging utility?
>
> Dan 




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 09:22:55 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:22:55 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4161a7e3$0$80627$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416212A9.2030300@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4332.1096980308.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8c8b.1fw150q3o59n4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4422.1097065595.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl8pri.1jtsz931fd6oagN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> Thanks (again!). Another dumb mistake. I have mixed up __get__attr,
> descriptors, and __getattribute__ in my head, all at once, and messed
> up the concepts. Too much reading and too little practice do it :-).

You're welcome!  Yep, getting some practice would help...
infrastructure's a cool thing, but getting direct experience of how to
do real-life apps helps you grasp the infrastructure better, too.

> The funny thing is that the code worked as written, at least for my
> small test case, because it failed to find the dog.fetch method
> anyway.

Heh, yes, you weren't looking for dog.keys or dog.update, say;-).


Alex


From bennie at rotzjes.nl  Wed Oct 27 17:46:58 2004
From: bennie at rotzjes.nl (Bennie)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:46:58 +0200
Subject: how come .insert() don't work
Message-ID: <41801753$0$62043$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>

Hi all,

I have a little problem.

def tekst_in(self, tag):
		tekst_tag={'p': '\t\t<p>\n\n\t\t</p>\n', 'br': '<br />'}
		print tekst_tag[tag]
works fine in my class

But...
def tekst_in(self, tag):
		tekst_tag={'p': '\t\t<p>\n\n\t\t</p>\n', 'br': '<br />'}
		self.tekst.insert(INSERT, tekst_tag[tag])

Then I get a AttributeError...
I seached the net, can come op white a answer.
So I hope You all can!

Bennie,
	


From xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  9 18:37:10 2004
From: xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com (SunX)
Date: 9 Oct 2004 15:37:10 -0700
Subject: run python from a tcl/tk GUI
References: <337e6cd5.0410072056.865c394@posting.google.com>
	<4166267e_2@omega.dimensional.com>
Message-ID: <337e6cd5.0410091437.3699b8d9@posting.google.com>

mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr) wrote in message news:<4166267e_2 at omega.dimensional.com>...
> xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com (SunX) writes:
> 
> > Just wrote a front-end GUI with tcl/tk to take user input.  Want to
> > push a button on the GUI to start running a python script.
> 
> Is there a reason not to write the entire GUI in Python and use
> Tkinter or wxPython?
> 
> > I know one can use exec in tcl to run .exe files, but not .py or
> > .pyc, correct?
> 
> Sounds like a platform-specific issue; since you mention .exe files,
> I assume you're running some flavor of Windows.  One can certainly
> run .py and .pyc files from a Tcl/Tk script on Unix-like systems.
> What does your code look like?

Sorry I forgot to mention that it was on windows.  But found out that
one way to do this is "exec ~/python.exe myScript.py".


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct 26 22:04:42 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 02:04:42 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1098841966.907789.126460@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <417f023a$0$1347$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-27, Sridhar  R <sridharinfinity at gmail.com> wrote:

> So your customers are non-programmers, right?

Are you addressing me?

Some are, some aren't.  

The one's asking for help with OS stuff were.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow! Are we wet yet?
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From andreas at kostyrka.org  Fri Oct  8 08:59:02 2004
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:59:02 +0200
Subject: How to determine if a file is busy?
In-Reply-To: <1glcbu7.po1w0e8mxyl6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <c89d662c.0410080246.52ed9407@posting.google.com>
	<ck5uiv$hhj$1@online.de> <1glcbu7.po1w0e8mxyl6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041008125902.GC25587@kostyrka.org>

On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 01:54:03PM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Benjamin Niemann <b.niemann at betternet.de> wrote:
> 
> > How about writing the data to a file 'mydata.new' and when you are finished,
> > delete 'mydata' and rename 'mydata.new' to 'mydata'.
> > This way the python script will always get 'complete' files (and sometimes no
> > file at all, when it come in between rm and mv ...)
> 
> I believe that 'mv' on Mac OS X, within a normal filesystem, is an
> atomic operation anyway -- so, so need to rm first then mv.  On the
> other hand, this would give no intrinsic guarantee that the datafile
> previously produced HAS been consumed/recorded before it's removed.
Then the consumer of that file should remove it afterwards.

Andreas


From golux at comcast.net  Tue Oct 19 02:57:58 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 02:57:58 -0400
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4174BAF6.90102@comcast.net>

Andrea Griffini wrote:

> I proposed python as the main language for our next CAD/CAM
> software because I think that it has all the potential needed
> for it.

I agree, even without knowing the intended scope.  ;)
Speaking of scope, if you are allowed to divulge it, that
would be interesting to know.  Will it be 2D or 3D (3D I
would assume), and what kind of geometry engine?
Probably one of the open-source ones that already have
a Python API, no?

If it is 3D, a very desirable feature would be STEP
(ISO 10303) geometry import/export, so that you will be able
to exchange CAD data with virtually any commercial CAD
tool, and some open source ones (such as OpenCascade).
That will greatly increase its chance of adoption by
experienced CAD users, who typically have existing
libraries of CAD designs created using a COTS CAD tool.
(This is even more useful if you are planning to support
assemblies of components -- which might even be the most
logical initial feature for a new Python-based CAD/CAM,
since assemblies could be manipulated even without having
native geometric-form-creation capabilities:  all you
would need is rendering, orientation, and interfacing
of existing solids -- a.k.a., "parts".)

If you have access to a license for ABAQUS, I recently
discovered that they have implemented a Python API for their
FEA engine, and have implemented STEP geometry as well.
See:  http://www.abaqus.com/PAPortal

> ... I'm not sure yet if the decision will get through, but
> something I'll need in this case is some experience-based set
> of rules about how to use python in this context.
> 
> For example... is defining readonly attributes in classes
> worth the hassle ? Does duck-typing scale well in complex
> software or should I go for a classic inheritance hierarchy ?

For something as complex as CAD/CAM, you will probably want to
make maximum use of interfaces and adaptors, with minimal and
very judicious application of classic inheritance hierarchies.
I am *not* an expert on interfaces and adapters, but several
of the gurus on this list are.

Since you will probably want to do lots of prototyping, you
can probably delay decisions about matters such as read-only
attributes until your API has stabilized somewhat.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Cheers,
Steve



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Wed Oct 13 06:52:48 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:52:48 +0200
Subject: strange side effect with lists!?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4817.1097656352.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4817.1097656352.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416d090d$0$9052$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Wolfgang.Stoecher at profactor.at wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm new to Python and playing around. I'm confused by the following 
> behaviour:
> 
> 
>>>>l1 = [1] # define list
>>>>l2 = l1  # copy of l1 ?

No. Creation of another reference to l1.
you can test identity of objects with the 'is' operator :
 >>>> l2 is l1
True

>>>>l2,l1
> 
> ([1], [1])
> 
>>>>l2.extend(l1) # only l2 should be altered !?

No.

>>>>l2,l1
> 
> ([1, 1], [1, 1]) # but also l1 is altered!

Exactly what one would expect !-)

> So what is the policy of assignment? When is a copy of an object created? 

(please someone correct me if I say any stupidity)

There are two point you need to understand : bindings, and 
mutable/immutable types.

With Python, you've got objects, symbols and binding. Unlike languages 
like C, a 'variable' (we'd better say 'symbol' or 'name', and you may 
also read 'binding') is not the memory address of an object, but a 
reference to an object.

The syntax :
 >>>> l1 = [1]
creates a list object, and 'bind' the symbol (or 'name' if you prefer) 
'l1' to that list object - which means that l1 holds a reference to the 
list object. Now when you're doing
 >>>> l2 = l1
you're binding the symbol l2 to whatever l1 is bound to at this time.

Now there are two kind of objects : mutables and immutables. As 
expected,  you can modify mutable objects after instanciation, and you 
can not modify immutable objects. But you can modify the binding between 
a symbol and an immutable object, so when you're doing something like :
 >>> a = "aaa"
and then
 >>> a = a + "bbb"
this do *not* modify the string - what it does is create a new string 
made of "aaa" and "bbb" and rebind the symbol 'a' to the newly created 
string.

Most Python objects are mutables. Immutable objects are mainly numerics, 
strings and tuples.

So what happens with instanciation, modification, bindings, references etc ?

As I said, when you're binding two symbols to the same object (as you 
did in your exemple), both symbols reference the same object. Now what 
happens when you modify the bound object depends on the "mutability 
status" (pardon my poor english) of this object.

Let's have an exemple with an immutable object :

01]>>> a = "aaa"
02]>>> b = a
03]>>> a
04]'aaa'
05]>>> b
06]'aaa'
07]>>> a is b
08]True
09]>>> b = b + "bbb"
10]>>> a
11]'aaa'
12]>>> b
13]'aaabbb'
14]>>> a is b
15]False
16]>>>

Ok, this works as expected : a string being immutable, the statement at 
line 09 creates a new string and bind b to this string (or this string 
to b if you prefer...). So we now have two distinct string objects

Now with a mutable object :

 >>> a = [1]
 >>> b = a
 >>> a is b
True
 >>>

Ok, now we have to symbols referencing the same mutable object. Since 
this is a *mutable* object, modifying it will not create a new object. 
So none of the symbols will be rebound :

 >>> a.append(2)
 >>> a
[1, 2]
 >>> b
[1, 2]
 >>> a is b
True
 >>>

Once again, this works *exactly* as expected - once you understand the 
difference between binding and assignement, and the difference between 
mutable and immutable objects.

A common pitfall is :
 >>> a = b = []
This does not create two lists. This create one list and bind both 'a' 
and 'b' to this list.

Now back to your problem. You want a copy of the list, not another 
reference to the same list. Here the solution is
 >>> a = [1]
 >>> b = a[:]
 >>> a is b
False
 >>> a.append(2)
 >>> a
[1, 2]
 >>> b
[1]
 >>>


> Where to find dox on this?

In the fine manual ?-)
Ok, that's not really obvious from the tutorial. You may want to have a 
look here :
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/types.html

HTH
Bruno



From klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de  Wed Oct 27 09:09:08 2004
From: klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de (Klaus Neuner)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 06:09:08 -0700
Subject: module signal
References: <3e96ebd7.0410260054.197dd951@posting.google.com>
	<417EA12C.6060803@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e96ebd7.0410270509.10e4c8b2@posting.google.com>

> doesn't. You could also try a Timer object from the
> threading class; it's even easier than a signal alarm.

I don't see how to do it with a Timer object only. Could you rewrite
the regexp example with a Timer object such that it works?

Klaus


From ronwalf at umd.edu  Thu Oct 14 11:18:53 2004
From: ronwalf at umd.edu (Ron Alford)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:18:53 -0400
Subject: Ode to Urllib2
Message-ID: <416E98DD.1010808@umd.edu>


Oh Urllib2,
When I ask, you GET, when I tell, you POST.
But I am about to lose my HEAD, for these are my only OPTIONS.
What about my need to PUT up new things, DELETE the old, or TRACE my steps?


-Ron

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From a.drummond at ucl.ac.uk  Tue Oct  5 16:34:10 2004
From: a.drummond at ucl.ac.uk (Alex Drummond)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:34:10 +0000
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <cjutun$jj0$1@uns-a.ucl.ac.uk>

> I've always been curious about that phrase.  It seems to imply
> that you _do_ care, since it would be possible for you to care
> less than you do.  Shouldn't the expression be "I couldn't care
> less"?

It's sarcastic. No surpise that graduate students don't get it ;)


Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>>Take for example if I were to claim that I were a graduate student in
>>>computer science theory at the University of California, Irvine.  A
>>>little bit of investigation would lead you to discover that I am
>>>likely the person I claim to be (header examination, university search,
>>>etc.).
>>>
>> I could care less honestly.
> 
> I've always been curious about that phrase.  It seems to imply
> that you _do_ care, since it would be possible for you to care
> less than you do.  Shouldn't the expression be "I couldn't care
> less"?
> 
>> I'll come back to usenet when I have more explicit and
>> specific questions relating to Python.
> 
> You can ask general and broad-reaching questions if you want
> to, but you're expected to do a modicum of research on your own
> to try to find the answers.
> 



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Thu Oct 14 03:42:32 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 07:42:32 GMT
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4q1.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.4760.1097598524.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mqqdho6uojj6a@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4898.1097694574.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mri2t9ldsatf5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncmsbbi.1cm.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-10-14, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
> Clark C. Evans wrote:
>
>>Assume for a moment the following programming costs:
>>
>>  2m  Minting a name, that is, finding a name that is not 'foo'
>>      which semantically adds to the readability and maintainability
>>      of the code.
>>  
>>
>
> Does it *really* take you two whole minutes to find a meaningful name?  

I can't speak for Clarc but yes it does for me, Because sometimes there
just isn't a meaningfull name IMO and the best you can come up with is
frase what the function does in words what would be easier expressed in
a formula.

> Two minutes is a pretty long time if you're just sitting and thinking.  
> Even button1_callback() seems fairly readable and maintanable to me.  

But that is not a meaningfull name. It doesn't add any information.
That it is a callback for button1 can be easily inferred from the
fact that it is used as the callback parameter.

IMO this is just as usefull as:

  parameter = [3,5,8,23]
  lng = len(parameter)

> And anyhow, a fair number of the examples of lambda usage that I've seen 
> can be easily replaced with a reference to an existing function -- 
> operator.mul() isn't that difficult...

I agree that my need for using lambda's has diminished as python has
evolved. But a reference to operator.xxx only helps if you want a
single operator as a function. As soon as you need to combine
operators you need to construct a new callable.

> To be honest, if I were worrying about programming costs, I'd be looking 
> at the time I'd spend trying to refactor my problem into something where 
> I could use (perhaps curried versions of) more generic callbacks.  That 
> might be a pretty significant investment of time, actually.  Of course, 
> it might (or might not) pay off with a cleaner and clearer overall 
> architecture...   But perhaps this is a particular weakness of mine, 
> where I want to try to generalize things as much as practical.
>
> Given the presumption that many, if not most, uses of lambda could be 
> generalized to some degree, I don't think it would be necessary to mint 
> a new name for each and every lambda that you currently use, even in 
> those cases where there *isn't* a pre-existing standard-lib function 
> that serves the same purpose as the lambda.

I do wonder whether it would add readabilty. My impression is that
curried functions are not that easily understood and I fear that
those who have problems with lambda's will not be helped if the
lambda's are replaced with curried functions. IMO generalizing
when it isn't necessary can detract from readability too. If you
have need specific functionality and have a function that provides
just that specific functionality, you just need to understand that
function. If you have a more general function, you need to understand
that function and how the use of certain parameters transforms the
general case into your specific case.


Not that I'm against the use of curried functions or the use of
general functions.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From john_taylor_1973 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 14:13:08 2004
From: john_taylor_1973 at yahoo.com (John Taylor)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 11:13:08 -0700
Subject: PyXMPP on Windows XP.
Message-ID: <fc30bff.0410051013.4fc1f7c8@posting.google.com>

Greetings,

I am having a really hard time installing PyXMPP 0.5 on windows xp and
Python 2.3 .  I have the VS-6 compiler, installed header files for
iconv and libxml2, and have installed
libxml2-python-2.6.14.win32-py2.3.exe.

When I run python setup.py install  (or build), this is what I get:

running install
running build
running build_py
running build_ext
building 'pyxmpp._xmlextra' extension
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\BIN\link.exe /DLL
/nologo /INCREMENTAL:NO /LIBPATH:c:\Python23\libs
/LIBPATH:c:\Python23\PCBuild xml2.lib /EXPORT:init_xmlextra
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\ext/xmlextra.obj /OUT:build\lib.win32
-2.3\pyxmpp\_xmlextra.pyd
/IMPLIB:build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\ext\_xmlextra.lib

LINK : fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file "xml2.lib"
error: command '"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual
Studio\VC98\BIN\link.exe"' failed with exit status 1181

Any ideas on how to fix this, or know where I can get a windows binary
package?  Google was of no help.

Thanks!
-John


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Oct  4 18:53:57 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:53:57 -0700
Subject: ActivePython/IIS Request Concurrency
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F2A@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

I said:
> > FWIW, I don't use ASP for anything more than an envelope for "real"
> > Python scripts.

and Steve Holden replied:
> Since ASP is a mixed-language environment I tend to call Python 
> functions from VBScript to do things that would be tedious in 
> VBScript.

Just so. But IMO everything is tedious in VBScript. ;) Using a framework
wrapper allows me to work in one fewer language.


FuManChu


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Oct 27 17:51:27 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:51:27 +0200
Subject: how come .insert() don't work
In-Reply-To: <41801753$0$62043$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
References: <41801753$0$62043$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <41801852$0$189$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Bennie wrote:
> def tekst_in(self, tag):
>         tekst_tag={'p': '\t\t<p>\n\n\t\t</p>\n', 'br': '<br />'}
>         self.tekst.insert(INSERT, tekst_tag[tag])
> 
> Then I get a AttributeError...
> I seached the net, can come op white a answer.

What specific attribute is mentioned in the AttributeError?
That self has no attribute tekst, or that self.tekst has
no attribute insert?

If the former, you need to arrange your class so that self has
an attribute tekst (e.g. by initializing tekst in __init__).

If the latter: what kind of thing is self.tekst?

Regards,
Martin


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 21:03:03 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 01:03:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<%5E9d.7075$UP1.6600@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4167128b$0$538$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041009T030158-592@post.gmane.org>

Grant Edwards <grante <at> visi.com> writes:

> No, he wants to do an exclusive or of the boolean values of the
> strings.

I'm guessing the OP has already guessed this solution from the variety already 
provided, but the direct translation of this statement would be:

bool(x) ^ bool(y)

for example:

>>> bool("") ^ bool("a")
True
>>> bool("") ^ bool("")
False
>>> bool("a") ^ bool("a")
False
>>> bool("a") ^ bool("")
True


Steve






From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Fri Oct 15 13:55:29 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:55:29 +0300
Subject: Pychecker warns about  Exception example from Python tutorial
Message-ID: <41700f96$0$7527$39db0f71@news.song.fi>

Hi there,

why does pychecker v0.8.14 gives this warning:

koe2.py:2: Base class (exceptions.Exception) __init__() not called

when run against this example from Python Tutorial:

------------- code starts -------
class MyError(Exception):
     def __init__(self, value):
         self.value = value
     def __str__(self):
         return repr(self.value)

try:
     raise MyError(2*2)
except MyError, e:
     print 'My exception occurred, value:', e.value

------------- code starts -------

What does this warning mean and how can I disable it?

-pekka-


From vegeta.z at gmail.com  Sun Oct 31 02:52:10 2004
From: vegeta.z at gmail.com (Alexander Kervero)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:52:10 -0400
Subject: using dict for data attributes instead of self
Message-ID: <cm25jc$pp5$1@sea.gmane.org>



 Hi ,today i was reading diveinto python book,in chapter 5 it has a very
generic module to get file information,html,mp3s ,etc.

The code of the example is here : 
 http://diveintopython.org/object_oriented_framework/index.html 

One thing that i have some doubs is this part : 

 class FileInfo(UserDict):
    "store file metadata"
    def __init__(self, filename=None):
        UserDict.__init__(self)
        self["name"] = filename


So why does he wants a dictionary-like base class if he never uses any
dictionary method,except for dict.clear which is not necesary.

--
could be done like this?

  class FileInfo():
    "store file metadata"
    def __init__(self, filename=None):
        UserDict.__init__(self)
        self.name = filename

And the FileInfo subclasses could have the specific attributes that belongs
to each file type,for example mp3.

check the link to the full example. 
--

The only reason is to have a base class with arbitrary attributes ? so it
can dinamicaly adquire attributes depending of its subclass or something
like that?

Is there a clearer way to do it? Is there any benefits of going this way
that i dont see? 

Maybe this is just a dummy example to just show some functionality related
to the chapter? I am a bit confused.
 




From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Wed Oct 13 04:01:39 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:01:39 +0200
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
In-Reply-To: <8f17f4bc.0410121402.1873b7b7@posting.google.com>
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4538.1097192656.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8f17f4bc.0410080849.51fbdcfa@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62@posting.google.com>
	<a7a67196.0410082348.36fd45a@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410091859.39a6c028@posting.google.com>
	<416a53cd$0$16541$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<8f17f4bc.0410111438.7d73466f@posting.google.com>
	<416b8d92$0$7227$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<8f17f4bc.0410121402.1873b7b7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416cdf1e$0$8640$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Ali wrote:
[snip]
> well I tryed this:
> 
> import Tkinter
> def add_rows(w, titles, rows):
>     t.configure(state = 'normal')

REMOVE THAT LINE! Since you use t as a local variable afterwards, this will make 
the whole script fail. BTW, this means this isn't the code you actually used, 
since it doesn't display any window at all.

>     w.configure(state = 'normal')
>     for r in rows:
>         for t, v in zip(titles, r):
>             w.insert("end", "%s:\t%s\n" % (t, v))
>         w.insert("end", "\n")
> 
> app = Tkinter.Tk()
> t = Tkinter.Text(app)
> t.pack()
> info = [['Ali',18],
>         ['Zainab',16],
>         ['Khalid',18]]
> add_rows(t, ["Name", "Age"], info)
> app.mainloop()
> 
> Well... it shows the window, it doesnt show text, it still lets me type in stuff :( 
> What is wrong now?

You never set the text state to disabled, so no wonder you can still type text in...
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From p at ulmcnett.com  Tue Oct  5 16:24:47 2004
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:24:47 -0700
Subject: NameError
In-Reply-To: <TjD8d.43576$75.2160680@news3.tin.it>
References: <TjD8d.43576$75.2160680@news3.tin.it>
Message-ID: <200410051324.47112.p@ulmcnett.com>

GMTaglia writes:

>         dialog.vbox.pack_start(label, TRUE, TRUE, 0)

Try changing that to:
	dialog.vbox.pack_start(label, True, True, 0)

If that doesn't work, try:
         dialog.vbox.pack_start(label, 1, 1, 0)

-- 
Paul McNett
Independent Software Consultant
http://www.paulmcnett.com


From francisl at aei.ca  Sun Oct 31 11:20:59 2004
From: francisl at aei.ca (Francis Lavoie)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:20:59 -0500
Subject: question de bonne doc
In-Reply-To: <418505b9$0$3662$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
References: <418505b9$0$3662$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <418510EB.4010802@aei.ca>

orionlux wrote:

>bonjour
>j ai install? python sur ma distrib linux mandrake 10
>je suis a la recherche d une bonne DOCUMENTATION (? savoir la liste
>des instructions python + des exemples ) mais je ne trouve rien pour l
>instant
>
>les livres o'reilly sur python sont decevant
>qui connait de bonnes<references de livres et de lien sur le net ?
>merci de me repondre
>
>orionlux
>  
>
www.diveintopython.org



From alain.marcel at svd-info.fr  Thu Oct 28 08:22:00 2004
From: alain.marcel at svd-info.fr (Alain)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 05:22:00 -0700
Subject: Error import PyWinTypes24.dll
Message-ID: <a4686a1f.0410280422.7e7cddb7@posting.google.com>

Hi all !
 
I'm working on Windows XP, with Python24.
I've a trouble with PyWinTypes24.dll (python Windows extensions).
Trouble is not due to specific python version 24.
  
To distribute my applications, I don't want to put anything else
elsewhere (neither in Windows/System32 nor in registry).
So I deliver a folder (says HOME) that contains two mains folders
  - a folder Python24 that contains python distribution and
msvcr71.dll, python24.dll, PyWinTypes24.dll
  - a folder apps that contain a folder per python application
 
I start my python applications with such command :
HOME/Python24/Python HOME/apps/app1/run.py
Windows complains that it cannot found PyWinTypes24.dll.
If I copy PyWinTypes24.dll in each HOME/apps/appX folder, then it
works.
It's a solution but not very nice.
Is there a solution without duplicate PyWinTypes24.dll ?
 
Thanks,
Alain


From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Oct 19 11:53:46 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:53:46 GMT
Subject: Referencing objects own functions
In-Reply-To: <48a9916d.0410190745.4c9d0536@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041019155346.4730.774607641.divmod.quotient.1876@ohm>

On 19 Oct 2004 08:45:42 -0700, jackson.pip at gmail.com (pip) wrote:
>Hi all,
> 
> Pretend I have the following:
> 
> class foo:
>   commands = [
>     'name': 'help',
>     'desc': 'Print help',
>   ]
> 
>   def print_help(self):
>     print "Help is on the way!"
> 
> I would like to add another entry to the commands dict. called 'func'
> or something which contains a reference to a function in the foo
> class. What would the entry look like if atall possible?
> 

  Something like this?

      class foo:
          def print_help(self):
              print "Help is on the way!"
          commands = {
              "help": print_help}

  Note that print_help is a function, not a method, and so commands will contain a reference to a function.  This means when you call it you must supply self manually.  Another, perhaps easier, approach:

      class bar:
          def cmd_help(self):
              print "Help is on the way!"
          def run(self, command):
              return getattr(self, "cmd_" + command)()

  This takes advantage of the fact that cmd_help is already an entry in a dict - the class's attribute dict - and uses it directly from there.

  Jp


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Oct 21 17:00:18 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:00:18 -0500
Subject: Pymacs problem
In-Reply-To: <cl93hb$5as$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
References: <mailman.5263.1098374176.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl93hb$5as$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <16760.9058.135692.931735@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Alberto> So, maybe try

    Alberto>     (defun py-complete ()
    Alberto>       (interactive)
    Alberto>       (let ((pymacs-forget-mutability t)) 
    Alberto>    (pycomplete-pycomplete (py-symbol-near-point)
    Alberto>                                (py-find-global-imports))))

Thanks.  Worked like a charm...

Skip


From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Fri Oct 29 09:32:46 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:32:46 +0200
Subject: Interface of the set classes
Message-ID: <41824654$0$1779$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Ok, I first want to stress that I looked through the newsgroups archives 
(on Google) for an answer to my question, but I didn't find it.

It's about the interface of the set classes as defined in the PEP 218.
I don't understand why the sets has an interface of mapping object 
without associated value and not an interface of sequence ?

For me, sets are first sequences. I use set where lists are inefficient 
or inadapted, for example when I need to remove redundancy and that I 
don't care about the positions of my elements. So I happen to switch 
from list to sets depending of the data involved (for example if the 
data are non-redundant, lists can be more efficient, but if they are, 
they become too expensive). And that's just impossible to do with Python 
sets ...

Then, why can't you at all access sets element by position ? As Python 
iterator are so poor (mainly, you cannot copy them ...) you have things 
you cannot do without positionnal iteration (typically when you need to 
store the current position and go on the iteration to restart from the 
saved position later on).

Please, if this discussion already exists give me the pointer ... and 
don't tell me "because of implementation if over dictionnary" ... I 
don't think that can be a good answer :o)

Thanks,

Pierre Barbier de Reuille


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sat Oct  2 05:40:02 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 10:40:02 +0100
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<415d9229$0$18966$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<yfsacv6i3fg.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <yfs655tihl9.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> writes:

> I would if I hadn't trouble with sf.net. I'll try again over the weekend but
> if someone else would like to submit it, it's appended below.

patch succesfully submitted now.

'as


From bjourne at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 08:26:14 2004
From: bjourne at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:26:14 +0200
Subject: Using tuples correctly?
In-Reply-To: <416a3b23.4280441299@news.oz.net>
References: <mailman.4680.1097466830.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416a3b23.4280441299@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <740c3aec0410110526277b43ea@mail.gmail.com>

> Not sure what you are needing, but consider yet another class:
> (not a speed demon, and not tested beyond what you see below ;-)

[snip]

That is all very nice but doesn't get around the fact that either you
declare your objects, or you suffer index access.

-- 
mvh Bj?rn


From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Mon Oct  4 11:26:19 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:26:19 -0400
Subject: Python Macros
Message-ID: <41616B9B.1080009@fastmail.fm>

How hard/easy is it to extend the Python syntax?  Perhaps there are 
macro facilities for this?  I'd like to add messages and message 
passing, for example.

Thanks.


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Oct 26 16:14:10 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:14:10 -0600
Subject: speed up mp3
In-Reply-To: <417ea290$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>
References: <417ea290$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <417EB012.5070908@pythonapocrypha.com>

Ivo Woltring wrote:
> Dear Pythoneers,
> 
> I have a blind friend who listens a lot to audio books. A lot of the
> material available today is in mp3 format.
> For ages i have been looking for a mp3-player with speed control and haven't
> found any.

Really? For PC playback, on Windows at least there are plugins for WinAmp to do 
this, and Windows Media Player (at least version 9 at later) support this out of 
the box. For MP3 devices, I know for sure at least one model from Creative 
supports the faster playback - I can find the specific model if you need.

-Dave


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct  7 12:36:24 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:36:24 GMT
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4488.1097144029.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>	<864d37090410070250210881d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4488.1097144029.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cge9d.5178$UP1.3555@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Tim Williams wrote:
> Can anyone suggest a way of capturing the output from smtplib's
> set_debuglevel  into a list or dictionary  (or anything else I can work
> with),

Looking at smtplib.py, all of the debug messages go to
the module variable 'stderr', which is a reference to sys.stderr.

That means you can replace smtplib.stderr  with something
of your own.  Try this untested bit of code

import cStringIO
old_error = smtplib.error
new_error = cStringIO.StringIO()
try:
   smtplib.error = new_error
    ... do your smtplib call here ...
finally:
   smtplib.error = old_error
   print "Debug messages"
   print new_error.getvalue()

What this does is replace smtplib.error with a StringIO,
which is a file-like object that stays in memory.  I used
the try/finally to ensure that the original error output
file is restored after the smtplib call ends.

There are other things you could do by making your own
sufficiently file-like object instead of using StringIO.
All it needs to do is implement the 'write' method.
But it may have to accumulate several writes before it
gets a full line.

class ShowWrites:
   def write(self, text):
     print "Got", repr(text)

To test it out, change my first example so it uses
ShowWrite instead of StringIO and get rid of the
last two lines

new_error = ShowWrite()

and get rid of these two lines

old_error = smtplib.error
new_error = ShowWrites()
try:
   smtplib.error = new_error
    ... do your smtplib call here ...
finally:
   smtplib.error = old_error



				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com



From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Tue Oct 26 22:38:03 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:38:03 +1300
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
In-Reply-To: <ECBA357DDED63B4995F5C1F5CBE5B1E801353900@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <ECBA357DDED63B4995F5C1F5CBE5B1E86C37A4@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

[Just realised what this thread (not the greatest subject...) is about, and
catching up, sorry.]

[Andrew Dalke]
> I got email about 6 months ago asking if it is okay to 
> include my sb_culler program with the SpamBayes source code.  
> I haven't checked to see if that actually happened.

It's in CVS and will be in 1.1 - it was too late (we were frozen) for it to
make it into 1.0.  The script definitely works with
current-when-it-was-checked-in SpamBayes.

> I've added a few new features since then, like reloading the 
> good_emails file if there are changes.  Want to add another 
> to whitelist based on domain, and to remove emails with a 
> given subject, like "Sprava nebola dorucena".  Perhaps I'll 
> update the wiki afterwards.

If you do, I'll update the CVS copy, too.

[Fred Pacquier]
> is the documented change on line 348 enough to run the 
> script with a  current version of Spambayes ?

You just need to change the 'False' on 348 to '"dbm"'.  I've just checked
this change in, so you can alternatively get the more recent copy from CVS
when it updates.

[Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel]
> just download mail, pipe it through spamassassin and
> eventually delete from server.

FWIW, isbg does something pretty similar to this, although it's for use with
IMAP, not POP.  <http://www.rogerbinns.com/isbg/>

[Andrew Dalke]
> I've attached my current version (sans passwords and identifing
> mailing list information) to this post.

I've just checked in the updates from this, too, so the SpamBayes CVS
version will match (more-or-less).

=Tony.Meyer



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct  8 20:56:57 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:56:57 -0700
Subject: (solved)  smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <vQE9d.9719$M05.9411@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.4599.1097264257.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<vQE9d.9719$M05.9411@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20041008172954.EDA4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> There's no way to get what the OP wanted through subclassing.
> Rather, any subclassing would end up rewriting non-trivial
> amount of smtp logic so the subclass would break whenever a
> copy would break.

I believe smtplib is fairly stable.  What I meant by it breaking, is in
the case of editing smtplib.py in-place, and leaving it in the
platform's standard library, then later upgrading Python.  I have seen
some newbs do this and wonder where their changes had gone.

After perusing it (smtplib) for a bit, I notice how often the debug
notices are peppered through.  Thankfully for the most recent CVS, they
include 'print >>stderr, <stuff>' rather than the previous 'print
<stuff>'.  At least it allows doing smtplib.stderr = <anything>, without
affecting other modules that rely on a reasonable stderr.

Subclassing smtplib (as I originally suggested) doesn't look like a
viable option.

> The choice is to copy into new file with different name or
> do your solution.  The new thread-specific data storage in
> 2.4 should also make that much easier to implement.

Thread local storage isn't necessary, and actually makes it harder.  You
have to write custom code to get back your per-thread storage, whether
that is remembering to write the log when the thread dies, or using a
weakref to do it for you; neither of which are necessarily a newbie
thing to do.


> What the OP wants is handy for things like email programs
> that want to give feedback to the user about what's going on.
> It captures some steps that can't otherwise be done via
> subclassing.

Having written something similar, I have noticed that just the return
codes and exceptions returned by smtplib calls to be sufficient for
nearly everything.  I don't think I've ever set the debug level on the
object.


> This approach may be better, though I'm not sure.  I
> would rather use a callback handler.  In any case it's
> more complicated than I would suggest for a self-described
> new Python programmer.

Callbacks can get ugly.  I tend to prefer reactor-style/event-based
stuff. It can take a while to wrap your brain around it for any
moderately complex protocol, but you can get pretty high concurrency
with just a single thread; on the order of Python's file handle limit
with relative ease.

 - Josiah



From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Oct 28 01:49:43 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:49:43 -0700
Subject: Anyone have Analog code?
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32450CE@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Analog is a popular web log analyzer and report generator. I wrote a
small Python helper for it today for my Dev Manager, looked for similar
stuff via Google, and came up dry. Just curious if anyone else has
similar snippets; I thought I might try to make a moderately-complete
Python library module for Analog. Reply with links, discussion, or code.
:)


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net  Tue Oct 26 17:22:29 2004
From: xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 21:22:29 GMT
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
References: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
	<20041026170823.2022.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <Xns958EEE02DD524PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.73>

Maciej Dziardziel <fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl> said :

>> Is there a ready-made tool that fills this need ?
> 
> I don't know any, but writing such is not a big problem - python has
> builtin support for pop3 and mail processing (examples are in its
> documentation), so just download mail, pipe it through spamassassin
> and eventually delete from server.
 
I sort of knew this one would be forthcoming :)

I won't say I haven't been tempted - like everyone else here I've written 
my own 'experimental' POP3 checker using the python standard lib, and 
several more from the 'yet another' category... but I know my limits.

Also, over the years I've had my share of "unique/original" (heh) ideas, 
spending ages to implement them, only to find out afterwards that someone 
had already done it, and generally much better... just like Andrew Dalke 
with sb_culler in this case.

I'm not looking for a pet project here, just to solve a problem. If I can 
do it in a few hours of tinkering with a ready-made answer I certainly 
won't try to roll my own. If I were a student, or in that mythical state 
between retirement and brain-rot, maybe, but for now it's definitely Plan C 
(or D :-)

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Oct 18 11:29:50 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:29:50 -0500
Subject: freeimage?
Message-ID: <m2acukrqmp.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>


The freeimage package [1] apparently used to have python bindings [2],
but for reasons unexplained these were removed [3].  A google groups
search reveals one person trying to SWIG the recent src, but not
getting any love[4].

Anyone know of python wrappers for the freeimage library?

Thanks,
John Hunter

[1] http://freeimage.sourceforge.net

[2] http://groups.google.com/groups?q=freeimage+group:*python*&hl=en&lr=&scoring=d&selm=mailman.975843842.29775.clpa-moderators%40python.org&rnum=5

[3] http://freeimage.sourceforge.net/changeslog.html

[4] http://groups.google.com/groups?q=freeimage+group:*python*&num=50&hl=en&lr=&sa=G&scoring=d



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  1 08:20:07 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:20:07 -0400
Subject: How can I code to get more than One value from checkbox?
In-Reply-To: <d3502feb.0409302229.46b34efc@posting.google.com>
References: <d3502feb.0409301103.2a39e53a@posting.google.com>
	<6J07d.1812$gk.1795@okepread01>
	<d3502feb.0409302229.46b34efc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <415D4B77.5050209@holdenweb.com>

Shufen wrote:

> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<6J07d.1812$gk.1795 at okepread01>...
>  
> 
>>I think you're confusing checkboxes and radio buttons.
>>
>>If you have ten different boxes that can be checked, each will usually 
>>have a different name, so you can test them with data.getfirst("box1"), 
>>data.getfirst("box2"), and so on.
>>
>>While it's true that you can have several checkbox elements with the 
>>same name, and that the CGI interface will give you a list of such 
>>values, there's absolutely no need to do so and, as you have discovered, 
>>it's positively unhelpful in most cases.
>>
>>With radio buttons, you give each member of the set the same name in 
>>your HTML and the browser submits the value of only the one that's been 
>>checked (if one has).
>>
>>regards
>>  Steve
> 
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> I did that with reference to this:
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/node404.html
> 
> I used checkboxes because I wanna the user to be able to select one or
> more of the checkboxes, these checkboxes have the same "name" - qtype
> and different "value". For radiobuttons, the user can only choose one
> of the given radiobuttons which is not what I want. Sorry, I think I
> didn't make myself clear enough.
> 
> 
> The following is my script:
> 
> ###############################################################################
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> #Created on: 30/09/04
> #Help from Lee Harr and Danny Yoo - Python Tutor
> 
> import sys, os
> import cgi
> import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
> import pg
> 
> def form():
>     print """<form method="post" action="">
>              <p>
>              <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="all" checked />
>              All<br />
>              <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="project" />
>              Project<br />
>              <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="date_string" />
>              Date<br />
>              <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="blame" />
>              Blame<br />
>              <input type=checkbox name="qtype" value="notes" />
>              Notes<br /></p>
> 
OK, it's not really obvious what this form is supposed to do for you. I 
also don't understand whether it makes sense for "all" to be checked at 
the same time as individual selections. But we'll leave that for now ...

>              <p>Search by shot number:<br>
>              <input type=text name="qtext" value="" />

It might make more sense to call this input "shotno" rather than 
"qtext", but that won;t affect how the code functions.

>              <input type="submit" value="SEARCH" />&nbsp;
>              <input type="reset" value="RESET" /><br />
>              </form>"""
> 
Aah, so we're looking up photographs in a database?

> print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
> print "<head><title>Searching by using Shot
> Number</title></head><body>"
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     
It's a bit too late for this if you've already written the headers out, 
I should say - it would make more sense to move those prints above down 
here so they don't get run if the script is imported.

>     data = cgi.FieldStorage()
> 
Great!

>     if data:
>         qtype = data.getfirst('qtype')

Since the "for" statement below assigns to qtype, the statement above is 
completely redundant.

>         qtext = data.getfirst('qtext','')
> 
>         for qtype in data.getlist('qtype'):

So if you check "project" and "blame", you should iterate round this 
loop twice, with qtype being set to "project" the first time and "blame" 
the second.

>             print "You typed in Shot Number:", qtext
> 
>             #Will take care of the security problem later...
>             username = os.environ.get('USER')
>             if username == None:
>                 username = 'apache'
> 
>             #Now, we can get to the database...
>             db = pg.connect("moncdata", user=username, passwd=None)
> 
It doesn't make sense to connect to the database each time round the 
loop (and I'm still not even convinced this loop is what you want...)

>             #This is the part that I'm not sure of...please help...
>             query = "select %(qtype)s from shot_descriptions where
> shot_number=%(qtext)s", qtype, qtext
>             qresult = db.query(query)
> 
I take it pg is some kind of PostGres interface? And AAH!!, now I see 
that what the checkboxes are supposed to do is select fields for the 
output. You appear to be missing a "percent" sign up there - it should 
either be

     query = "SELECT %s ...=%s" % (qtype, qtext)

or

     query = "SELECT %(qtype)s ... =%(qtext)s" % data

to put the query type and the text into the string, depending on which 
substitution method you want to use. You should really be testing a lot 
of this stuff in an interactive copy of the interpreter (I hope you do 
have Python available other than just on your web  server).

Unfortunately the assignment to query isn;t a syntax error in Python 
(you are just assigning a three-element tuple to query) but poor old 
PostgreSQL isn;t going to know what to make of the result.

Do you want to see a separate chunk of output for each field, or do you 
want to see the fields as columns of a table? The latter seems to make 
more sense to me, but it would have been REALLY nice if this 
conversation has started out like "I have a bunch of shot descriptions 
is a database, and I want to be able to see just selected fields about a 
shot".

For the structure you've got now it looks like you plan to loop around 
the column names, doing a query for each one, and printing out a table 
for each field. And we don't have any way to handle "all", by the way 
... unless that's just another database column.

>             listOfResults = qresult.dictresult()
> 
>             print """<p>Example of pulling the list of dictionary
> results apart.</p>"""
>             for record in listOfResults:
>                 print "<p><table>"
>                 for k in record.keys():
>                     print '<tr>'
>                     print '<td>key:</td> <td>', k, '</td>'
>                     print '<td>value:</td><td>', record[k], '</td>'
>                     print '</tr>'
>                 print '</table></p>'
> 
>             db.close()
> 
>         #Somehow, this part didn't work too, when I didn't input a
> value
>         #it doesn't show this msg. Please help me on this part too.
> Thks.

The reason for that is that even when you don't enter anything into the 
form the submit button still gets put in there as a data item, so the 
form will never be truly empty.

>         else:
>             print "You have no enter a shot number!"
>             print "Please type a in shot number in order to perform a
> search!"
> 
>     else:
>         form()
> 
> 
> print "</body></html>"
>     
> ###############################################################################
> 
> Thank you in advance for any help.
> 
> Shufen

OK, before we go any further I'd like you to tell me exactly what you;d 
like this page to do. You probably aren't that far froma solution now, 
but it would be nice to answer the right question.

I'm suspecting that what you really want is something like

     query = """SELECT %s FROM shot-descriptions WHERE
                   shot_number=%s""" % (
			data.getvalue("qtype"), data.getfirst("qtext"))

Since I have to go off and earn pennies now, someone else may be able to 
help you in the interim. I'm likely to be off-net for a bit. Stick with 
it, you're almost there!

regards
  Steve


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 09:31:52 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:31:52 +0200
Subject: How to determine if a file is busy?
References: <c89d662c.0410080246.52ed9407@posting.google.com>
	<ck5uiv$hhj$1@online.de> <1glcbu7.po1w0e8mxyl6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4572.1097237826.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glcgbr.qld3ehfedxarN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andreas Kostyrka <andreas at kostyrka.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 01:54:03PM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > Benjamin Niemann <b.niemann at betternet.de> wrote:
> > 
> > > How about writing the data to a file 'mydata.new' and when you are
> > > finished, delete 'mydata' and rename 'mydata.new' to 'mydata'. This
> > > way the python script will always get 'complete' files (and sometimes
> > > no file at all, when it come in between rm and mv ...)
> > 
> > I believe that 'mv' on Mac OS X, within a normal filesystem, is an
> > atomic operation anyway -- so, so need to rm first then mv.  On the
> > other hand, this would give no intrinsic guarantee that the datafile
> > previously produced HAS been consumed/recorded before it's removed.
> Then the consumer of that file should remove it afterwards.

Possibly, but that, per se, doesn't mean a file can't get deleted
without ever having been used.  If the producer must wait for the
deletion (not necessarily easy in AppleScript, I believe) then the
producer could be stalled by the implied 1-length 'queue'...

I'm not sure about the best solution because I'm unsure about the exact
abilities of AppleScript, where the Python script is running (on Windows
with a [EEK] SMB share to the Mac, or on the Mac itself), etc...


Alex


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Fri Oct 29 23:38:38 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:38:38 -0700
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5685.1099087062.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <2ue65gF28i9f7U1@uni-berlin.de> <WqOdnTc2YvdqPh_cRVn-2Q@rogers.com>
	<mailman.5685.1099087062.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clv2bt$nl7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

[snip]

> If other posters on this topic are correct; you don't need to lose your
> application in order to use that GPL library, you merely need to write a
> wrapper for that library, which is then released under the GPL.  Since
> you are the original author, you can do whatever you want with the
> wrapper; including using it in a commercial setting where you don't
> release your application.
> 
> The wrapper is the derivative work, which is licensed under the GPL. 
> But being the original author, you can do whatever you want with the
> wrapper, including using it from a non-GPL'd piece of software, without
> needing to tell anyone about it.
> 
> If anyone asks about the fact that your main software is not GPL'd,
> point them to the wrapper software, and as long as your wrapper is
> nontrivial, I don't believe it is a big deal.

What kind of wrapper are you talking about? An executable program that 
communicates with the rest of your software via pipes? If you are 
linking in the GPL library and distributing the result, the whole code 
must be licensed compatibly with the GPL no matter how much wrapper code 
you put around it.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From yaroslavvb at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 16:23:45 2004
From: yaroslavvb at gmail.com (Yaroslav)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 13:23:45 -0700
Subject: Suggestions for Python workshop
Message-ID: <f2d68a30.0410061223.7f40fc9a@posting.google.com>

Hi, I'm preparing a 2 hour workshop titled "Python for Scientific
Computing", the goal of which is to introduce people to using Python
for their Scientific Computing needs. If you have good examples that
illustrate Python's power for scientific computing, please post them
here.

Here's one example I had in mind -- Power Method for finding dominant
eigenvector:

# Define our matrix
A = array([[2., 1.],
           [1., 2.]])

# Define our starting vector
x = array([1.,0.])
x_old = 0.5*x

# Iterate while not converged
while max(x-x_old) > 0.00000001:
  x_old = x
  x = matrixmultiply(A, x)
  x/=max(x)

# Print result 
print x
# => [ 1.  1.]


From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Thu Oct 28 08:20:00 2004
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:20:00 +0100
Subject: Python utility convert Windows long file name into 8.3 DOSformat
References: <4C0gd.20216$R05.13225@attbi_s53><mailman.5599.1098947598.5135.python-list@python.org><clqc5i$l1h$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<mailman.5606.1098959524.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clqonn$nja$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>


"Simon Brunning" <simon.brunning at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.5606.1098959524.5135.python-list at python.org...

> One might be able to put together a function that
> *guesses* what short name Windows would be likely to give a new file
> with a given long name, but it would be pretty unreliable, I reckon.

And possibly patent infringing...




From psparago at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 19:11:42 2004
From: psparago at yahoo.com (Peter Sparago)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 16:11:42 -0700
Subject: MakeActiveXClass and MSHTML - 2 problems...
References: <584da15e.0410051513.60b77760@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <584da15e.0410061511.2f828552@posting.google.com>

I figured out the answer to the first question. For anyone interested,
in order to perform the QueryInterface call, you must make the call on
the embedded "OLE" (COM) object of the ActiveXControl like so:

persist = self.editor._oleobj_.QueryInterface(pythoncom.IID_IPersistFile)
persist.Load(url)

I still need help with the second issue. Anyone?

psparago at yahoo.com (Peter Sparago) wrote in message news:<584da15e.0410051513.60b77760 at posting.google.com>...
> I have been mostly successful in embedding the Microsoft MSHTML editor
> in a python application. However, there are two issues that are
> driving me bananas.
> 
> Issue 1:
> I can't set focus to the editor control. Since the ActiveX wrapper
> extends wx.Window, if I do something like:
> 
> self.editor.SetFocus
> 
> it returns false. Has anyone been able to programmatically set focus
> to the MSHTML editor control?
> 
> Issue 2:
> I want to be able to query the IHTMLDocument object (interface) that
> MakeActiveXClass generates for the ICustomDoc interface (in order to
> take control of the right-click context menu). However, QueryInterface
> is NOT supported by the IHTMLDocument object (I did a dir(self.editor)
> to prove it - no QueryInterface). Has anyone queried the ActiveX
> object for another interface it implements?
> 
> Thanks
> peter


From zondervanz at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 23:10:04 2004
From: zondervanz at gmail.com (zipher)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 20:10:04 -0700
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
Message-ID: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>

After searching through comp.lang.python and the web regarding
metaclasses, I could not find an example for customing classes using
metaclass parameters.

I want to be able to create a class at runtime by calling some
function or 'meta-constructor' which returns a customized class and
sets a class attribute according a given parameter.

Ideally, I'd be able to do something like:

>>> Bag = Metadict(filter=int) #Metadict returns a new class named
'Bag'
>>> issubclass(Bag, dict)      #  which is a type of dict
True
>>> Bag.filter                 #  with class attribute set accordingly
<type 'int'>
>>> b = Bag({'pennies': 6.0, 'dimes': 3})  #create instances of this
new class

(Aside:  the issue of magically knowing the variable name (i.e. 'Bag')
in that first assignment statement and setting the class name
accordingly would be ideal, but I could live with passing the name as
a parameter to Metadict if necessary.)

There would also be a number of new and re-defined methods which would
be part of all classes constructed and returned by calls to Metadict. 
For example, somewhere I need to re-define dict's __setitem__ method
to something like:

>>> def __setitem__(self, key, value):
...     self[key] = self.filter(value) #coerce/validate values before
adding to dict

Ideally, all such methods would be in their own class definition since
they will be common to all classes created by Metadict (perhaps they
would need be defined within Metadict itself).


This seems like a simple thing to want, but unusally convoluted to
actually implement.  I'm not even sure where to start.

Any pointers?

Thank you,

zipher


From listserver at tdw.net  Thu Oct  7 14:33:33 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:33:33 +0100
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
References: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>	<864d37090410070250210881d2@mail.gmail.com><mailman.4488.1097144029.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41656D52.5090903@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <018001c4ac9c$26f7b4a0$ccbefea9@twilliams>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com>


> Tim Williams wrote:
>
> > Can anyone suggest a way of capturing the output from smtplib's
> > set_debuglevel

> All smtplib debug output is produced using print statements to standard
> ouput, so you could try creating a "file-like" object (such as a
> cStringIO) and temporarily replacing sys.stdout with it (saving
> sys.sdout and replacing it if other parts of your program need to use it).
>
> If you need help to work out the details, post again.

Many thanks Steve

I have implemented your suggestion ,   but what is the best way to get the
data out of the file-like object,   the only option that seems to work for
me is

f.getvalue()

which returns a string,  but getvalue() doesn't "feel" right somehow.   Am I
missing something ?

TIA














From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Oct 18 20:37:48 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:37:48 -0700
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3244FD9@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:19:43 +0100, Michael Hoffman
> <m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote:
> > Robert Brewer wrote:
> > >
> > > What do you all think? I've been using a class-based 
> variant of this in
> > > production code (business app) for six months now, and 
> have found it
> > > extremely helpful. I saw a pointer to itertools today and 
> figured a
> > > function-based version might be nice to include in that 
> module someday.
> > 
> > Could you give a real-world example of its use?
> 
> I think Robert is referring to a conversation where I took part
> earlier today.

Actually, I didn't follow your thread, but if the shoe fits... ;)


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From psparago at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 19:13:48 2004
From: psparago at yahoo.com (Peter Sparago)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 16:13:48 -0700
Subject: MakeActiveXClass and MSHTML - 2 problems...
Message-ID: <584da15e.0410051513.60b77760@posting.google.com>

I have been mostly successful in embedding the Microsoft MSHTML editor
in a python application. However, there are two issues that are
driving me bananas.

Issue 1:
I can't set focus to the editor control. Since the ActiveX wrapper
extends wx.Window, if I do something like:

self.editor.SetFocus

it returns false. Has anyone been able to programmatically set focus
to the MSHTML editor control?

Issue 2:
I want to be able to query the IHTMLDocument object (interface) that
MakeActiveXClass generates for the ICustomDoc interface (in order to
take control of the right-click context menu). However, QueryInterface
is NOT supported by the IHTMLDocument object (I did a dir(self.editor)
to prove it - no QueryInterface). Has anyone queried the ActiveX
object for another interface it implements?

Thanks
peter


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 00:47:59 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 21:47:59 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<1gm98e3.ewsm1jxg9y3tN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410262047.1de735cc@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gm98e3.ewsm1jxg9y3tN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
>  
> Try doing some accounting in Turkish liras, one of these days.  Today,
> each Euro is 189782957 cents of Turkish liras.  If an Italian firm
> selling (say) woodcutting equipment bids on a pretty modest contract in
> Turkey, offering machinery worth 2375220 Euros, they need to easily
> compute that their bid is 450776275125540 cents of Turkisk Liras.  And
> that's a _pretty modest_ contract, again -- if you're doing some
> computation about truly substantial sums (e.g. ones connected to
> government budgets) the numbers get way larger.
> [...]Even just for accounting, unlimited-size integers are simply much more 
> practical.
> 
> 
> > as another example, using too long a string as an index into a
> > dictionary is not a problem (true, the dictionary may not have a
> > mapping, but i have the same issue with a short string). but too long
> > an index into a list rewards me with an exception.
> 
> But the same index, used as a dictionary key, works just fine.  Specious
> argument, therefore.

I don't think so. I didn't say that large numbers always cause
trouble, so you can't claim to have refuted by argument by giving a
single counter-example.


> As common and everyday a
> computation (in some fields) as the factorial of 1000 (number of
> permutations of 1000 objects) is 2**8530 -- and combinatorial arithmetic
> is anything but an "ivory tower" pursuit these days, and factorial is
> the simplest building block in combinatorial arithmetic.

It's nice to get some facts, rather than an attempt to prove your
position by analogy between ints & strings ("Proof by analogy is
fraud" - Bjarne Stroustrup)


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 02:41:28 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 23:41:28 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<1gm98e3.ewsm1jxg9y3tN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410262241.23284eda@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gm98e3.ewsm1jxg9y3tN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> 
> Try doing some accounting in Turkish liras, one of these days.  Today,
> each Euro is 189782957 cents of Turkish liras.  If an Italian firm
> selling (say) woodcutting equipment bids on a pretty modest contract in
> Turkey, offering machinery worth 2375220 Euros, they need to easily
> compute that their bid is 450776275125540 cents of Turkisk Liras.  And
> that's a _pretty modest_ contract, again -- if you're doing some
> computation about truly substantial sums (e.g. ones connected to
> government budgets) the numbers get way larger.
> 
> Even just for
> accounting, unlimited-size integers are simply much more practical.

Thank you for the information. I appreciate it.
-kartik


From jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Tue Oct  5 05:02:10 2004
From: jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:02:10 +0200
Subject: print - parameters ?
Message-ID: <2sf68hF1jj1mlU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi,
sorry for this probably very simple question.

How can I build a parameter list for 'print' ?

Background:
I'd like to write a function like

def myprint(Msg,*Args) :
   print (Msg,)+Args

when called as

myprint(MyMsg,x)

it should be equivalent to

print  MyMsg,x

but, e.g.

class ABC :
	def __str__(self) :
		return "ABC-class"

x=ABC()

myprint('this is',x)

gives

('this is', <__main__.ABC instance at 0x4084fc8c>)

instead of

this is ABC-class

What am I missing (what sort of thing is the parameter list of print) ?
Many thanks for a hint,


Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Oct 12 06:14:47 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:14:47 +0200
Subject: py2exe
In-Reply-To: <416ba9da$0$9584$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <416ba9da$0$9584$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <20041012101447.GA22036@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 11:55:45AM +0200, merman wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> can I also use py2exe (T. Hellers tool) in a "generic" way?
> In other words: can I made Perl-Executables too?

No. But there are certainly equivalents for this other P language.
Google will help.

-- Gerhard


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 17:45:21 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:45:21 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5153.1098150302.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1098194866.552318.234710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5183.1098208117.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glxbjm.3z1g3hhxomoxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5194.1098218306.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glxe78.2hkiiz189zdilN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cl409j$kdm$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <1glxggg.iq6j5k9ryojgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Frohnhofer, James <james.frohnhofer at csfb.com> wrote:
> 
> >> Why do you say 'simple-minded'?
> 
> > Why do you top-post?
> 
> Be civil.  There are those who prefer it, in some cases.  If you don't
> like it, don't do it.

Indeed I don't do it, but do I have to suffer it silently from others to
"be civil"?  Why ever?


Alex


From franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at  Tue Oct 12 06:32:10 2004
From: franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:32:10 +0200
Subject: Country specific date format
References: <vrrcm0dn0f9pom05a1tefjcr4hpgdcg7o0@4ax.com>
	<ck5tk3$jfn$02$2@news.t-online.com>
	<shrdm0lb4clgb4qe2ao1847s2jvm6pkl0b@4ax.com>
	<1yhad.18386$b5.906421@news3.tin.it>
	<hgdkm0p5trdo7ip6g135d7l8d6405em65f@4ax.com>
	<1glijqw.1fgyc7q151ti5aN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <picnm0hg18ho1vjiii85a6fd2bel5bohb5@4ax.com>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:17:12 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
wrote:

>Franz Steinhaeusler <franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at> wrote:
>   ...
>> >I would look at dateutil. It has some pretty nifty stuff for handling
>> >timezones and locale-specific date issues...
>> >
>> >HTH
>> >Anna
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> thanks,
>> 
>> did you mean "datetime" instead of "dateutil". 
>> (I couldn't find a dateutil)
>
>(Hmmm, I'd better try to answer for her, she's flying USwards right now
>and I'm not sure how good her newsgroup access will be for a while...!)
>
>I think she really meant dateutil -- a wonderful 3rd party extension.
>Google for it... it IS worth it (IMHO, and I believe in Anna's too:-).
>
>
>Alex

thank you, I found it.

I will give it a try.

-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From HansWL at msn.com  Mon Oct  4 23:02:59 2004
From: HansWL at msn.com (HansWL)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 20:02:59 -0700
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>	<cjj9sd$hg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>	<mailman.4177.1096637180.5135.python-list@python.org>	<691232ce.0410030304.2f84c04b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4236.1096861162.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<691232ce.0410040930.2ed080d9@posting.google.com>
	<cjs4o4$6gv$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <691232ce.0410041902.1f4a485a@posting.google.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:<cjs4o4$6gv$01$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> HansWL wrote:
> 
> > That's not very likely. Norton Anti-virus is always on, and its virus
> 
> According to
> 
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1603.1092390578.5135.python-list%40python.org
> 
> Norton's "autoprotect" feature can cause a massive slow-down.
> 
> Peter

Thank you for your response. 
Unfortunately, NAV is not the culprit. It does slow down some other
programs I use, though. I did try matplotlib with NAV and Norton Crash
Guard disabled, but this did not make any observable difference.


From donnal at donnal.net  Fri Oct 29 15:54:51 2004
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:54:51 -0500
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410282309470.21849-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>
References: <clrke5$a3n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0410282309470.21849-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>
Message-ID: <clu76c$s0i$1@sea.gmane.org>

Michael Sparks wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Robert Kern wrote:
> 
>>Donnal Walter wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks for this reference and the one to Creative Commons. Is there a
>>>good mailing list or on-line forum appropriate for discussing
>>>licensing issues?
> 
> ...
> 
>>http://www.opensource.org/licenses/#email
>>
>>I do recommend reading some of the archives first. Some of your
>>questions have been tread over many times on that list.
> 
> Reading Lawrence Rosen's book on open source licensing is highly
> recommended as well for people interested in this sort of thing. It's
> oddly readable for a law (IPR law at that) book.

Ok, I browsed most of the opensource.org mailing list for the past six 
months, and while enlightening, it didn't answer my specific questions 
(and I have not asked them there, as most questions there are about 
specific licenses). Rosen's book is not available to me at the moment, 
but I have been reading St. Laurent's book, which has been helpful. 
Nevertheless, may I pose the following scenario here?

Given:
1. PA, the "primary author" in this scenario.

2. FW, a "framework" authored by PA for developing small custom 
applications in Python, especially by non-programmers who are 
professionals in another field.

3. OApps, a suite of "original applications" written by PA using FW.

4. CApps, "contributed apps" to be written by other professionals in the 
field using FW.

5. BigApp, an integrated version of OApps/CApps into a single "big 
application" managed by PA using FW.

Now, PA wishes to make FW, CApps, and BigApp available as free software 
such that:
     a. pros in the field will be encouraged to use OApps and BigApp
     b. pros will be encouraged to help improve OApps and BigApp
     c. pros will be encouraged to contribute CApps to Bigapp
     d. other programmers will be encouraged to help improve FW.

PA would like derivatives of OApps and BigApp to remain free (seeing no 
reason why they should ever be proprietary), and is therefore leaning 
toward copyleft (CL) licensing for these.

For similar reasons, PA wants to *encourage* CApps to be released under 
CL or CL-compatible license so that they can be included in BigApp.

PA sees little advantage in allowing derivatives of FW to be proprietary 
(and therefore is leaning toward CL for this, too). However, see next 
paragraph.

PA does not currently plan on combining FW with other software, but is 
aware of:
     a. another framework (FW2) that is non-copyleft (NCL), and
     b. another framework (FW3) that is CL,
with which FW might be merged one way or another in the distant future.

Here are my questions.

1. Is there a compelling reason for PA *not* to use a CL license (say 
Gnu GPL) for OApps and BigApp? These are "end-user" applications, not 
system components.

2. Am I right in thinking that the license for FW will have little or no 
legal bearing on the licenses contributors choose for CApps?

3. Am I right in thinking that a CL license for BigApp would encourage
(but not require?) using CL for CApps (if they want them included)?

4. Will either a CL or NCL license for FW affect the likelihood of 
receiving improvements from programmers outside the field of interest?

5. If PA chooses a CL license for FW, can it later be changed to NCL in 
order to be combined with FW2?

6. If PA choses a NCL license for FW, can it later be changed to CL in 
order to be combined with FW3?

Thanks,
Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital




From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Fri Oct  8 17:30:58 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:30:58 -0400
Subject: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <4166F7C6.7050405@wanadoo.fr>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4166F7C6.7050405@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <41670711.9040508@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Pierre Quentel said unto the world upon 2004-10-08 16:25:
> Brian van den Broek a ?crit :
> 
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm looking for a stand alone Python wiki engine that does not require 
>> a web server such as Apache or MS IIS. I have found such beasts in 
>> other languages (e.g. <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EddiesWiki> in C++, and 
>> a couple in Ruby), but none written in Python. A pointer to any that 
>> I've missed would be most appreciated.
>>
> 
> Have you taken a look at Karrigell (http://karrigell.sourceforge.net) ? 
> It's a simple and lightweight web framework, 100% Python, shipped with a 
> built-in web server (well, two in fact, one based on SimpleHTTPServer 
> and the other on asyncore/asynchat), although it can also work with 
> Apache or Xitami
> 
> It comes with a wiki server demo which you can use once you've started 
> the server
> 
> A+
> Pierre

Thanks for the suggestion, Pierre.

I'll put it on the list of things to look at if and when I give up on
Moin-moin. I wanted to go that way, as it seems the closest thing to a
'standard' python wiki.

I've gotten it installed, but am having some real grief with css. css
support is working on MS IE, but broken for Mozilla Firefox 1.0PR :-(

I've got an outstanding request for help on the moin-moin list. I did
try Irmen de Jong's suggestion to go to IRC (which I'd never used before
-- a real newbie for you!). However, at the moment, I'm out of town
(happy Canadian Thanksgiving this weekend!) so I'm stuck with a
1$/minute dial-up. Makes IRC a non-option.

So, if anyone is still following the thread and knows about why css
might work with IE but not FF, I'd love to hear about it!

Best to all,

Brian vdB






From dubnerm-news at mail.ru  Thu Oct  7 18:01:45 2004
From: dubnerm-news at mail.ru (Michael P. Dubner)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:01:45 +0400
Subject: os.system  vs. Py2Exe
In-Reply-To: <81a41dd.0409280200.1a74edd1@posting.google.com>
References: <81a41dd.0409280200.1a74edd1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4165BCC9.4020908@mail.ru>

Lad wrote:

>I used Py2exe to compile my script( I use XP).
>The compiled script works OK on my XP where Python is installed.
>But when I install the compiled exe to another computer,
> 
>os.system 
>
>causes the following  error:
>Bad file or command name
>
>Any help would be appreciated.
>Lad
>  
>
Check if
os.system('start /wait File.txt')
is working under Win9x.
It's for sure will work under WinNT+

--
Best regards,
Michael Dubner (dubnerm.at.mindless.com)




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 03:22:36 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:22:36 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on multi-CPU hardware? (see POSH - Python
	shared objects)
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<2u5nslF2601mqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<fxlfd.7571$KJ6.7262@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1gm9b1l.nkzsce1pgt51xN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
   ...
> The major problem I have with it is its use of Intel
> specific assembly, generated (I as I recall) through
> gcc-specific inline code.  I run OS X.

Ouch -- and here I was, all rarin' to download and try in on my dual G5
powermac.  Ah well!  Tx for saving me the trouble, Andrew.

While intel-like CPUs are surely >10 times more widespread than ppc-like
ones _in general_, I think that's not the ratio for SMPs, given that
dual-G4 and dual-G5 powermacs have been sold in such large numbers over
the years.  Add to that the general popularity of Macs in the Python
community, and anybody interested in multi-CPU use of Python might want
to consider how much wider an audience he'd get if he supported MacOSX
as well as intelloids.  Andrew and I are just two examples of
Pythonistas who'd plunge to try out a POSH-like approach _iff_ it
supported our powermacs, but may not bother as it doesn't (I confess
I've never gone into enough depth on G4/G5 machine code/assembly, yet,
to be of much help _porting_ some intelloid-specific solution... my
[dated] assembly expertise is on intelloids and very different
architectures such as 6502, S/370, and VAX...).


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 03:17:08 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:17:08 +0200
Subject: object as bunch
References: <mailman.4709.1097511211.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gliip2.16epime1d3fm7uN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleaxit <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> > 
> > If an object() could be used as a Bunch I do think it would be
> > reasonably common.  But it can't, so I insist that its role as
> > sentinel/placeholder is the only possibility.
> 
> Anyone know what the design goal was that caused object not to be written to
> be used as a Bunch?

I believe the point was to not weigh down each instance of object with
it own dictionary, since a dict takes quite a few bytes of RAM.  I could
well be wrong, though.


Alex




From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct  9 02:17:14 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 08:17:14 +0200
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
References: <ck5neo$t2n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<20041008095200.GA25498@nl.linux.org>
	<20041008083902.ED7F.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4618.1097283269.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ck7vos$s3p$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Steven Bethard wrote:

> There's still a NameError to catch if you haven't initialized line:
> 
>>>> for line in []:
> ...     break
> ...
>>>> line
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> NameError: name 'line' is not defined

No, you would put code specific to the first line into the loop before the
break.
 
> I don't much like the break out of a for loop, because it feels like a
> misuse

I can understand that.

Peter



From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct 13 20:00:58 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 00:00:58 GMT
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-13, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

> To put it simply, it does not make sense, in its pure form.
> Linux is written in C for a lot of good reasons: portability,
> need to access the hardware, and performance comes to mind.

Definitely.

> Besides that, Linux is Posix compliant and emulates Unix
> system calls to a large extend, and that also makes C a
> natural choice.

Not sure I follow on that point.  Any low level language that
can deal with a C "struct" and byte-addressible memory would be
fine.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'll show you MY
                                  at               telex number if you show
                               visi.com            me YOURS...


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 10 03:43:22 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 07:43:22 GMT
Subject: Init a table of functions
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>	<942ad.836$Bw1.213@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4656.1097379445.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xp2ad.8055$UP1.2350@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4168dbc2.4190487812@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 03:56:13 GMT, Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

>Richard Blackwood wrote:
>> Yo Andrew.  That doesn't work.  Check my previous post w/ errors.
>
>What do you mean?
>
>Ahh, I see I solved the first problem (can't find 'foo')
>without solving what the OP wanted.  Try this reordering.
>
>class foo:
>      def f1():
>           print "f1"
>
>      def f2():
>           print "f2"
>
>      K={"f1" : f1,
>         "f2" : f2,
>         }
>      f1 = staticmethod(f1)
>      f2 = staticmethod(f2)
>
>def main():
>      foo.K["f1"]()
>      foo.K["f2"]()
>
>if __name__ == "__main__":
>      main()
>
>The 'staticmethod' is a descriptor and only works in
>the context of a class.
Or where you force the issue as-if ;-)
>
>Functions get turned into methods only in the context
>of a class.

>
>So to use a function as a function, get it before it
>turns into a method or staticmethod.

Or make a custom descriptor K that invokes the getattr magic as if getting foo.f1
of foo().f1, and thus letting the staticmethod descriptor deliver the function. This
lets you generalize K to handle other kinds of class attributes as-if also.
If you wanted to exclude all but certain names allowed by K[name], you could do
that in __getitem__ by raising KeyError for the others.
This is for educational purposes only, not a general recommendation ;-)

 >>> class foo(object):
 ...     def f1():
 ...         print "f1"
 ...     f1=staticmethod(f1)
 ...     def f2():
 ...         print "f2"
 ...     f2 = staticmethod(f2)
 ...     def f3(*args):
 ...         print 'method f3', args
 ...     def f4(*args):
 ...         print 'class method f4', args
 ...     f4 = classmethod(f4)
 ...     f5 = property(lambda *args:('property f5', args))
 ...     class K(object):
 ...         def __get__(self, inst, cls=None):
 ...             if inst is None: self.obj=cls
 ...             else: self.obj = inst
 ...             return self
 ...         def __getitem__(self, key):
 ...             return getattr(self.obj, key)
 ...     K = K()
 ...
 >>> foo.f1
 <function f1 at 0x0090C730>
 >>> foo.K['f1']
 <function f1 at 0x0090C730>
 >>> foo.f1()
 f1
 >>> foo.K['f1']()
 f1
 >>> foo.K['f2']()
 f2
 >>> foo.f3
 <unbound method foo.f3>
 >>> foo.K['f3']
 <unbound method foo.f3>
 >>> foo.f3(foo())
 method f3 (<__main__.foo object at 0x009015B0>,)
 >>> foo.K['f3'](foo())
 method f3 (<__main__.foo object at 0x009015B0>,)
 >>> foo.f4
 <bound method type.f4 of <class '__main__.foo'>>
 >>> foo.K['f4']
 <bound method type.f4 of <class '__main__.foo'>>
 >>> foo.f4()
 class method f4 (<class '__main__.foo'>,)
 >>> foo.K['f4']()
 class method f4 (<class '__main__.foo'>,)
 >>> foo.f5
 <property object at 0x0090E468>
 >>> foo.K['f5']
 <property object at 0x0090E468>

Ok, now via a foo instance:
 >>> f = foo()
 >>> f.f5
 ('property f5', (<__main__.foo object at 0x009015B0>,))
 >>> f.K['f5']
 ('property f5', (<__main__.foo object at 0x009015B0>,))
 >>> f.f1
 <function f1 at 0x0090C730>
 >>> f.K['f1']
 <function f1 at 0x0090C730>
 >>> f.K['f1']()
 f1
 >>> f.f3
 <bound method foo.f3 of <__main__.foo object at 0x009015B0>>
 >>> f.f3()
 method f3 (<__main__.foo object at 0x009015B0>,)
 >>> f.K['f3']
 <bound method foo.f3 of <__main__.foo object at 0x009015B0>>
 >>> f.K['f3']()
 method f3 (<__main__.foo object at 0x009015B0>,)

Reminder that via the class, it's unbound:
 >>> foo.K['f3']
 <unbound method foo.f3>

The class method is bound to the class instance either way
 >>> f.f4
 <bound method type.f4 of <class '__main__.foo'>>
 >>> f.K['f4']
 <bound method type.f4 of <class '__main__.foo'>>
 >>> f.K['f4']()
 class method f4 (<class '__main__.foo'>,)

 >>> foo.f4
 <bound method type.f4 of <class '__main__.foo'>>
 >>> foo.K['f4']
 <bound method type.f4 of <class '__main__.foo'>>
 >>> foo.K['f4']()
 class method f4 (<class '__main__.foo'>,)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tobias at topi.homelinux.org  Fri Oct 29 09:41:34 2004
From: tobias at topi.homelinux.org (tobias)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:41:34 +0200
Subject: Execute Command and write in variable
Message-ID: <41824875$1_2@news.bluewin.ch>

Hello

How can I execute a command (like "uptime") in python, and write the 
output into a variable?

Thanks


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Oct 17 13:04:00 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:04:00 +0200
Subject: md5 and large files
In-Reply-To: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <4172a5f6$0$28202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> Is reading the first 4096 bytes of the files and calculating the md5 sum 
> based on that sufficient for uniquely identifying the files or am I 
> going about this totally wrong? Any advice or ideas appreciated.

Clearly, you need to use the same procedure for later verification. The
usual approach is to compute the md5sum for the entire file.

Whether this is sufficient somewhat depends on what you want to achieve:
- uniquely identify the file: this works reliable if there is some
   guarantee that no two such files will be identical within the first
   4096 bytes. If your files are, say, log files with different starting
   dates, and the log file lines contain the starting dates, this is a
   safe assumption. If these are different versions of essentially the
   same file (e.g. different compilations of the same source code), I
   would not bet that different files already differ within the first
   4096 bytes.

- verify that the file is not corrupted, tampered with, modified.
   Your approach is clearly insufficient, as it can only detect
   modifications within the first 4096 bytes.

Regards,
Martin


From gdamjan at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 20:55:35 2004
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (Damjan)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 02:55:35 +0200
Subject: MySQLdb and MySQL 4.1 server :(
References: <34z0t1sfx8wa$.lcn7b3aki5sg.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <2tr447F22umcqU1@uni-berlin.de>

> MySQLdb 1.0 cannot connect to MySQL 4.1 server when the user has non-empty
> password :(
> 
> _mysql_exceptions.OperationalError: (1251, 'Client does not support
> authentication protocol requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL
> client')

Is your MySQLdb  compiled/linked against MySQL 4.1 libraries?

-- 
damjan


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct  2 10:26:36 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 10:26:36 -0400
Subject: Ubuntu Linux loves Python
In-Reply-To: <cjmc42$420$1@wheel2.two14.net>
References: <cjmc42$420$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <TcudnSI9uOABJ8PcRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>

Martin Maney wrote:
> Apologies if this isn't news here - 

It is!

> With the emphasis on Python, as well as the overall
> quality of the work I've seen in the work still in progress, I think
> Ubuntu is of more than passing interest to anyone interested in Linux
> or Python, and especially to those interested in both.

Thank you for the pointer, Martin.  I'm find this very
interesting.

-Peter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 30 02:34:16 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:34:16 -0700
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <clv2bt$nl7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <mailman.5685.1099087062.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clv2bt$nl7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <20041029230957.0C0A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Robert Kern <rkern at ucsd.edu> wrote:
> 
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > If other posters on this topic are correct; you don't need to lose your
> > application in order to use that GPL library, you merely need to write a
> > wrapper for that library, which is then released under the GPL.  Since
> > you are the original author, you can do whatever you want with the
> > wrapper; including using it in a commercial setting where you don't
> > release your application.
> > 
> > The wrapper is the derivative work, which is licensed under the GPL. 
> > But being the original author, you can do whatever you want with the
> > wrapper, including using it from a non-GPL'd piece of software, without
> > needing to tell anyone about it.
> > 
> > If anyone asks about the fact that your main software is not GPL'd,
> > point them to the wrapper software, and as long as your wrapper is
> > nontrivial, I don't believe it is a big deal.
> 
> What kind of wrapper are you talking about? An executable program that 
> communicates with the rest of your software via pipes? If you are 
> linking in the GPL library and distributing the result, the whole code 
> must be licensed compatibly with the GPL no matter how much wrapper code 
> you put around it.


Let us say that my commercial (non-GPL) software A links my GPL wrapper
B.  Wrapper B links GPL'd library C.

B is the derivative of C, so must be GPL'd, and is.  Since B is owned by
me, I can do what I want with it.  So I do what I want, I link it from
my commercial software A.

Now, I can ship B and C as with a GPL license along with my non-GPL
software, stating quite clearly that since I am the owner of B, I am
going to link B as I find necessary.

From what I understand, as long as B is nontrivial, the above is
sufficient.  And as I said before, if the original posters are incorrect
about this, so am I.


With all that said, if one /could not/ use GPL'd libraries from
commercial software, then nVidia and ATI would have lawyers knocking on
their doors for not GPLing their video drivers, as technically, the
nVidia drivers are derivative works of the Linux kernel.  Not being
privy to the inner workings of nVidia nor ATI, I will not guess how they
have managed to release binary-only drivers for linux, and will just say
that it is being done.

 - Josiah



From gohadbhai at rediffmail.com  Wed Oct 27 06:13:31 2004
From: gohadbhai at rediffmail.com (Sandeep Avinash Gohad)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 10:13:31 -0000
Subject: Database related...
Message-ID: <20041027101331.1048.qmail@webmail35.rediffmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041027/ae889848/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
 ?
Hello

If I want to develope any database related application,with options
like add,save,modify,delete,previous,last,next,first for maintaining
Employee's records or students database etc..
I will be using .mdb (access) file or d-base database as a
backend.
In VB we can use ADO or DAO, In java we use JDBC, so for
python please guide me for developing any basic application....

Regards
Sandeep 


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Oct  6 14:19:21 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:19:21 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <1gl7k7p.1a37gv1o1klclN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aJt8d.3299$M05.285@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6qcq.kcu4qi1qojaksN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<_sB8d.3545$M05.1351@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl7k7p.1a37gv1o1klclN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <JGW8d.7631$M05.6903@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> It doesn't distinguish whether code X you wrote yourself or got from
> Mario, but... why would you care?  If you did, surely a workspace
> concept could be built on top of some modern versioning system such as
> SVN to let you do the equivalent of a 'svn blame' -- but, again, this
> feels to me as a conflating of orthogonal concerns.

Because the new version of the system might be incompatible
at the lower depths.  If I added a new function to system
code and the new version of the system also adds a function
with same name and signature, then who wins?  If the system
requires certain behavior from that function and my function
doesn't do it, the workspace can freeze.

So I'm told by a friend of mine who manages to freeze his
Squeak by, for example, messing around with how the call
stack objects work.  To get out of it, he just uses an
older image.  Rather like a savegame.

It seems that to prevent this the import and/or export
mechanism must have some way to help identify which
functions are normal and which are likely to cause system
problems.

Again, my viewpoint is completely detached from any
practical experience.

> In Python, you can pretty easily define a type X such that instantiating
> X with an argument of 23 (only) results in a reload of all your
> currently reloaded modules plus an email to foo at aleax.it giving your
> system's uptime.

True.   Should be on its way.  Reloading modules was the hard
part.  Needed to check that isinstance(module, types.ModuleType)
and that the module name != "__main__".  ;)

> So would Python plus a rebinding of __builtins__.hex to the above class
> X.  So?  What's your point?

That the word 'horror' means something different for you
than for me.

> Yeah, looks like a cool idea, but Ruby experts tell me it's never really
> practically useful... much like, say, double-leading-underscores names
> in Python classes -- neat idea, but not used in best practice anyway.

Hmm.  I'll bear that in mind.

One of the things I liked about C++ was constness of
objects.  And one of the things I didn't like was all
the extra work needed to make a library const safe.

I've at times wanted something like that in Python, as
when I have one attribute which depends on the data in
another.  Were one to be changed without the other
there would be an integrity problem.  But I know the
right Python way to solve that problem if the "we're
all adults here" solution isn't enough.


> Mine too (just started my 50th year -- it's 23 minutes after the end of
> my 49th b'day, local time), that's part of why google's SO useful;-).


Buon Compleanno!


(Or should I say  ?Buon Compleanno! as you wish Italian to be :)

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From brewer at cs.berkeley.edu  Sat Oct  9 15:36:28 2004
From: brewer at cs.berkeley.edu (Eric Brewer)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 12:36:28 -0700
Subject: distutils and Debian (was Re: newbie question)
In-Reply-To: <41678E0E.30507@example.com>
References: <ck7ri6$1sll$1@geode.berkeley.edu> <41678E0E.30507@example.com>
Message-ID: <ck9ejo$2ctm$1@geode.berkeley.edu>

Michael Hoffman wrote:
> Eric Brewer wrote:
> 
>> I just installed Python on a Debian (testing) box and it generally 
>> works fine, but it can't find distutils.core:
> 
> 
> For some reason, some distributions split up the Python standard library 
> and put things like distutils into a python-dev package or something 
> similar. I think Debian does this, try apt-get python-dev and see if it 
> works (my apologies if I get that totally wrong, since I am only 
> parroting numerous Slashdot posts).
> 
> Personally I only see the point of this for systems with extreme space 
> requirements, and maybe not even then. Would anyone like to argue 
> differently?
> 

It is in python-dev.  I installed it and that solved the problem.

Thanks,

-Eric

>  > 1) Where should distutils be?  (This 2.3.4, so I think it is a 
> standard module.)
> 
> $ python
> Python 2.3.4 (#1, Jun 13 2004, 11:21:03)
> [GCC 3.3.1 (cygming special)] on cygwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> import distutils
>  >>> distutils.__file__
> '/usr/lib/python2.3/distutils/__init__.pyc'
> 
>  > 2) Is there any see if "dist*" is anywhere on the path?
> 
> The easiest way to do this will probably be to write something in Python 
> since there is always the possibility of a zip file being in your path.


From chrisconnett at gmail.com  Sat Oct 16 00:46:37 2004
From: chrisconnett at gmail.com (Chris Connett)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:46:37 -0400
Subject: fileinput module dangerous?
In-Reply-To: <416f7c54$1@buckaroo.cs.rit.edu>
References: <62e38ff3.0410122057.105c87ec@posting.google.com>
	<slrncmr2an.kv6.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<416f7c54$1@buckaroo.cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <4170a7ae$1@buckaroo.cs.rit.edu>

OK, I found the SF page for all that stuff and took care of everything.

Patch #1048075:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1048075&group_id=5470&atid=305470


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct  8 18:50:03 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 22:50:03 GMT
Subject: (solved)  smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4599.1097264257.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <00e701c4ad3f$b5e78390$ccbefea9@twilliams>	<01ee01c4ad65$396ec780$ccbefea9@twilliams>
	<mailman.4599.1097264257.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vQE9d.9719$M05.9411@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
> I hope you didn't change your own copy of smtplib, but just subclassed
> it. Changing a standard module is a good way to get bitten in the ass,
> especially during Python upgrades.

There's no way to get what the OP wanted through subclassing.
Rather, any subclassing would end up rewriting non-trivial
amount of smtp logic so the subclass would break whenever a
copy would break.

The choice is to copy into new file with different name or
do your solution.  The new thread-specific data storage in
2.4 should also make that much easier to implement.

The OP also likes being able to add new debug messages,
which can't be done through subclassing.  Perhaps through
AOP?  :)

> In regards to changing the standard library's smtplib permanently, you
> may or may not find support.  A good way to find out is to post here
> with the subject "proposed change to smtplib in standard library",
> describe your changes, and if it has support, head to
> sf.net/projects/python, list it as an RFE, and offer the code you have
> written yourself.

What the OP wants is handy for things like email programs
that want to give feedback to the user about what's going on.
It captures some steps that can't otherwise be done via
subclassing.

Another option is to change the code so that things like

for res in socket.getaddrinfo(host, port, 0, socket.SOCK_STREAM):
   af, socktype, proto, canonname, sa = res
   try:
     self.sock = socket.socket(af, socktype, proto)
     if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, 'connect:', (host, port)
     self.sock.connect(sa)
   except socket.error, msg:
     if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, 'connect fail:', (host, port)
     if self.sock:
       self.sock.close()
     self.sock = None
     continue
   break
if not sock:
   ...

uses methods, like

sock = None
for res in socket.getaddrinfo(host, port, 0, socket.SOCK_STREAM):
   sock = self.open_socket(host, port, res)
   if sock:
     self.sock = sock
     break
if not sock:
   ...

def open_socket(self, host, port, res):
   af, socktype, proto, canonname, sa = res
   try:
     sock = socket.socket(af, socktype, proto)
     self.sock.connect(sa)
   except socket.error, msg:
     sock = None
   return



so that subclasses can intercept the self.open_socket
call to add debug messages as desired.

class MySMTP(smtplib.SMTP):
   def open_socket(self, host, port, res):
     sock = smtplib.SMTP.open_socket(self, host, port, res)
     if sock:
       print "connect:", (host, port)
     else:
       print "connect fail:", (host, port)
     return sock

This approach may be better, though I'm not sure.  I
would rather use a callback handler.  In any case it's
more complicated than I would suggest for a self-described
new Python programmer.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From olli at haluter.fromme.com  Mon Oct 25 07:11:45 2004
From: olli at haluter.fromme.com (Oliver Fromme)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 11:11:45 GMT
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5321.1098456297.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2u45bhF263o38U2@uni-berlin.de>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
 > Could you explain a little more what about OCaml makes you consider it 
 > dynamically typed?

Well, it probably depends on what exactly you mean by
"dynamically typed".

For example, a function can take an argument that is
either an integer or a string (or a list or whatever)
and it does _not_ have to be known at compile time
which of those is the case.  But the compiler _does_
ensure that the function will work correctly for every
case (by checking that the pattern matching covers
every case, and within each case, the respective type
of the argument _is_ known and is checked at compile
time).

I call that dynamic.

For me, static typic is when every variable has a fixed
type at compile time (which is particularly true when
variables' types have to be declared).

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Konrad-Celtis-Str. 72, 81369 Munich, Germany

``All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream.''
(E. A. Poe)


From a at cb  Tue Oct 12 20:38:04 2004
From: a at cb (jeff)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:08:04 +0930
Subject: murdering tkinter programs
Message-ID: <416c795e$0$20124$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

At the start of a Tkinter program, you create a root window and then start
the mainloop().

So why isn't it standard practice to do the reverse when shutting down the
program, via an exit command or quit button ?
- that is, call .quit() first, then .destroy()

All the tutorials and introductions only seem to call destroy() in their
example programs.





From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Oct 25 12:54:01 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:54:01 -0400
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <05-dnQf-wsk1suDcRVn-sQ@giganews.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:


> Makes my _source_code_ a derived work, and therefore must be
> GPL'd?  That just doesn't sound right.

Well doesn't your work derive some functionality
from the imported code? Does your code work without
the import?

People need to understand once and for all that
GPL is about "forcing" you to make your program
open source. Whether that sounds right
or wrong to you, whether you like it or hate it
is irrelevant.

Obviously no one like suddenly realize that they are
bound by GPL  but everyone must keep this in mind
*before* choosing that path.

Istvan.



From fumanchu at amor.org  Sun Oct 31 00:42:20 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:42:20 -0700
Subject: Python-list Info Page
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32450E8@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Gary Robinson wrote:
> I am trying to understand a couple of nuances of inheriting from the 
> tuple type.
> 
> The following class definition works nicely:
> 
> class Test(tuple):
>     def __init__(self, tup):
>         self.x = 5
>         self = tup        
> a = Test((1,2))
> print a, a.x
> 
> The result of that print is "(1, 2), 5". 
> 
> But the following version:
> 
> class Test(tuple):
>     def __init__(self, tup):
>         self = tup
>         self.x = 5
> a = Test((1,2))
> 
> blows up in Python 2.3, complaining that attribute x doesn't exist.
> 
> I'm not clear on why one works and not the other, or whether 
> there's a 
> better syntax for assigning an attribute to a tuple subclass in the 
> __init__() method.
> 
> Anyone have any  thoughts??

Override __new__ as described here:

http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html#__new__

>>> class Test(tuple):
... 	def __new__(cls, tpl):
... 		return tuple.__new__(cls, tpl)
... 	def __init__(self, tpl):
... 		self.x = 5
... 		
>>> a = Test((1, 2))
>>> a.x
5
>>> a
(1, 2)
>>> type(a)
<class '__main__.Test'>

Also, you can't rebind 'self' within __init__ and expect any reasonable
results. Remember that assignment in Python doesn't bind objects to
*variables*, it binds *names* to objects.
http://docs.python.org/ref/naming.html So when you write "self = tup",
you are simply overwriting the name "self", not the actual object
instance to which "self" referred before you overwrote it. Read
http://effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm for a refresher.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From olepar at gmail.com  Sat Oct  9 13:09:31 2004
From: olepar at gmail.com (Oleg Paraschenko)
Date: 9 Oct 2004 10:09:31 -0700
Subject: ann: Pysch, Scheme runtime environment in Python
References: <1e015c2a.0410070804.6e84016d@posting.google.com>
	<ck65nd$9vf$1@pixie.nscp.aoltw.net>
Message-ID: <1e015c2a.0410090909.66a7a1b5@posting.google.com>

Hello David,

David Rush <kumoyuki at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:<ck65nd$9vf$1 at pixie.nscp.aoltw.net>...

> And for the tone-of-voice challenged, I do not intend to convey
> sarcasm. Rather I am amazed that such an approach works well
> enough to:

  I'm interested in generative programming and virtual machines.
One of the my suggestions is that it is reasonable to use
a minimal lisp-like core system and scheme-like library as
an universal virtual machine. Indeed, Pysch was a test if this
approach works. Hm, maybe I should write an article now?

> > Pysch supports only a subset of the Scheme functions
> > library. Anyway, the subset is big enough to run
> > SXPath and SXSLT code.
> 
> How fast?

  As slow as possible. Speed was sacrificed in order to produce
a correctly working prototype as soon as possible.

On my Linux computer (PII 450MHz, 512Mb RAM),
calculation of the Ackermann(3,4) gives:

$ time sh -c '(cat ack.xml | (cd ../pysch/pysch/vm; python eval.py))'
Ackermann(3,4) is 125
#unspecified
56.59user 0.26system 1:10.39elapsed 80%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (1020major+791minor)pagefaults 0swaps

--
Oleg


From jerf at jerf.org  Wed Oct 27 12:39:28 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:39:28 GMT
Subject: Open Source License Question
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<2u9hklF24n4b1U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<T82dnedQ8YiFBuLcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>
	<z6Nfd.755$K7.388@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.27.19.25.09.807563@jerf.org>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:09:51 +0000, Neil Hodgson wrote:
> I would
> love to be able to just renounce copyright on my work but it no longer
> appears possible.

To the best of my knowledge, nothing prevents you from doing that. Usually
all you need is a "This work is placed in the public domain by the
author", and it would probably be a good idea to add a date and a name,
though later modifiers can freely remove it.

As long as you understand that if someone uses your software to power
their Alan Parsons Project "Laser" and holds the Earth hostage for ONE
MEEEEEEELION DOLLARS that you have no recourse whatsoever, that's fine.
(Obviously an extreme, but it is worth pointing out the relinquishing all
rights really means *all* rights; I've seen too many people who really
didn't get that. I don't mean to imply anything about you personally,
Neil, this is just one of my reflexive comments I make on this topic.)


From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Fri Oct 22 11:52:20 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:52:20 -0400
Subject: MySQLdb and MySQL 4.1 server :(
In-Reply-To: <34z0t1sfx8wa$.lcn7b3aki5sg.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <34z0t1sfx8wa$.lcn7b3aki5sg.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <41792CB4.3020601@mediapulse.com>



JZ wrote:

>MySQLdb 1.0 cannot connect to MySQL 4.1 server when the user has non-empty
>password :(
>
>_mysql_exceptions.OperationalError: (1251, 'Client does not support
>authentication protocol requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL
>client')
>  
>
MySQL changed the way they do the PASSWORD() function. try resetting 
your mysql users' passwords using OLD_PASSWORD() instead and it will 
start working again. I just had this problem two days ago and found the 
answer in a simple web search for the error... *(cough)"

Gabriel.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 29 14:31:21 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:31:21 -0700
Subject: Linksys Router & Python
In-Reply-To: <cltjkt$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cltjkt$4fi$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20041029112922.0BD9.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Probably a stupid question, but here goes:
> 
> Is there any way to get a scaled down version of Python onto a Linksys 
> Wireless router? Are there any projects out there that are doing this? 
> I've googled around a bit, but didn't find much. I want to keep the 
> router's software as it is, but I also would like to have some scripting 
> abilities on it as well (like email the router's IP addy every x hours), 
> etc.

Some linksys routers offer support for dynamic hostnames via no-ip.org
or dyndns.org.  That is, they connect to the dynamic dns server, tell it
"hey, I'm now ip address ...", and within about 5-10 minutes, the rest
of the world knows it.

 - Josiah



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Fri Oct 15 04:56:40 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 08:56:40 GMT
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mo6q66oi0kj04@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmplmh.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mqr0rlj9h6r69@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4894.1097693029.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mrev24df58k60@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncmv42b.1cm.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-10-13, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
> Clark C. Evans wrote:
>
>>On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:58:14AM -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
>>| Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>| >I find it better to let the coder decide what makes sense in his program
>>| >and what not.
>>| 
>>| Which is the Perl philosophy.  Many people seem quite happy with Perl 
>>| because of this TMTOWTDI attitude; personally, I prefer Python's clarity 
>>| and simplicity.
>>
>>On this list, that's damn near close to an ad hominem attack.
>>  
>>
>
> Only if you choose to read it that way.  I pointed out that many people 
> are happy with Perl, thus implying that the philosophy behind 
> programming languages is largely a matter of taste.  It makes sense to 
> choose a language whose design philosophy matches one's own.  From this 
> and other previous discussions, it seems to me that Antoon Pardon has a 
> number of disagreements with Python's design goals; that's fine, he's 
> certainly entitled to his opinion, but there are others who *do* agree 
> with Python's design goals.

I don't think I have a problem with python design goals. But I see
nothing in the design goals that contradicts the notion of an 
anonymious function.

Further more I can't think of Python as having design goals, more
something like design guidelines. Guidelines whose priority changes
depending on the subject and favor of the person.

One time it is an exception is never important enough to break the
rule, the next time it is practicallity beats purity. As such I
feel that often enough arguments carry very little weight and it
all boils down to what feels right and after one has such a feeling
one just picks the guidelines that supports this feeling and declares
it has the highest priority in this case.

It is very well possible I do unjustice to a number of people now,
but that is the impression I get.

> ISTM that it would therefore be better, 
> overall, for those who disagree with Pythonic philosophy to look for a 
> different language that suits them better,

My philosophy is to use the language that I think is best suited 
to solve the problem in front of me. As python changes I will
continue to evaluate it in that respect.

> and those who agree with 
> Pythonic philosophy to keep using Python.  Trying to please everyone 
> with a single language just isn't gonna work, nor should it be expected 
> to.  Pointing this fact out has nothing to do with my personal opinions 
> about Mr. Pardon, you, or anyone else.

IMO there is nothing to be gained by saying some method of programming
is unpythonic or not. As python changes what is pythonic and what is
not will change too. I wouldn't be surprised that in some days before
version 2, some people would have called nested scopes unpythonic
and suggested that those who wanted them should look for an other
language. IMO saying something is unpythonic is just saying you
are against it, because once it is adapted it becomes pythonic.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From gandreas at no.reply  Tue Oct 26 11:29:04 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:29:04 -0500
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0410220909400.3665@suzi.com.onego.ru>
	<mailman.5295.1098427304.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gandreas-A1B259.10284926102004@news.visi.com>

In article <mailman.5295.1098427304.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:
> 
> > Most Python programs are already kinda generic, yes. But generic
> > programming adds multi-sorted types control and constraints to ensure type
> > safety...
> 
> "kinda generic"?  That is quite the understatement.
> 
> As for "type safety", Python has runtime type checking, and as a
> programmer, if you want to have varying dispatch based on type, you are
> free to do so:
> 
> foo_dispatch = {(int, int):foo_int_int, #some defined function
>                 ...}
> 
> def foo(arg1, arg2):
>     foo_dispatch[(type(arg1), type(arg2))](arg1, arg2)
> 
> 
> With decorator syntax, the above becomes even easier.


How about something like:



class GenericFunction(object):
   def _LookupSignature(cls, sig):
      f = cls._GenericFunctionMap.get(sig,None)
      if f: return f
      # no exact match, fall back to "default"
      # more complex type matching & resolution left as an excerise to
      # the reader
      wild = (None,) * len(sig)
      f = cls._GenericFunctionMap.get(wild,None)
      if f: return f
      raise AttributeError(cls,str(sig))

   _LookupSignature = staticmethod(_LookupSignature)
   def __new__(cls, *params):
      #print "new",cls,params
      sig = tuple([type(x) for x in params])
      return apply(GenericFunction._LookupSignature(cls,sig),params)

def DeclareTypes(function, *typelist):
   import sys
   c = sys._getframe(1)
   cls = globals()[sys._getframe(1).f_code.co_name]
   map = c.f_locals.setdefault('_GenericFunctionMap',{})
   map[tuple(typelist)] = function


class SomeFunction(GenericFunction):
   def IntAndList(i,l):
      print "Int",i,"List",l
   DeclareTypes(IntAndList,int,list)
   
   def IntAndInt(i1,i2):
      print "Int",i1,"Int",i2
   DeclareTypes(IntAndInt,int,int)
   
   def ListAndList(l1,l2):
      print "List1",l1,"List2",l2
   DeclareTypes(ListAndList,list,list)
   
   def AnyAndAny(o1,o2):
      print "o1",o1,"o2",o2
   DeclareTypes(AnyAndAny,None,None)

   def IntOnly(i):
      print "Int",i
   DeclareTypes(IntOnly,int)

SomeFunction(1)
SomeFunction(1,2)
SomeFunction(1,[1,2,3])
SomeFunction("Hello","World")



produces:

Int 1
Int 1 Int 2
Int 1 List [1, 2, 3]
List1 [1, 2] List2 [3, 4]
o1 Hello o2 World


(Again, with decorators, it becomes even cleaner)


From listserver at tdw.net  Fri Oct  8 10:04:21 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:04:21 +0100
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
References: <00ab01c4ad2a$bfe9aa90$ccbefea9@twilliams>
	<41668EDD.8090808@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <00e701c4ad3f$b5e78390$ccbefea9@twilliams>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com>


> AT this point I might be tempted to modify the smtplib code so it
> doesn't use sys.stdout for its debug output, but some other object that
> can be passed to SMTP.__init__().
>
> Since sys.stdout is going to be common to all modules, I think you have
> highlighted a weakness in the smtplib debugging paradigm. But if some
> smart type can come up with a better solution I'd love to see it.

Yeah,  I did wonder about changing the code  (though it's not my first
choice. I've done it before and caught a crab later),   or could I do it
with Subclassing?

 I'm still close to Newbie status, so I can't immediately imagine what  I
could change the smptblib code to write to,    or  how to subclass to get
the behaviour I might need.


"Peter L Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:zbidndU9vdoBDPvcRVn-rA at powergate.ca...
> Tim Williams wrote:
> > which returns a string,  but getvalue() doesn't "feel" right somehow.
Am I
> > missing something ?
>
> I've never felt the name "spoke to me" very well either :-), but
> it is the correct way to do it.
>
> Note also, regarding Steve's suggestion, that for simplicity
> in a small program you don't need to save sys.stdout if you
> are doing that just to restore it later, because sys.__stdout__
> is always the original value and a quick sys.stdout == sys.__stdout__
> will do the trick.

Thanks Peter,   nothing else modifies sys.stdout within the prog,  so I was
able to use this.  :-)



From liquid at kuht.it  Mon Oct 18 14:21:12 2004
From: liquid at kuht.it (GMTaglia)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:21:12 GMT
Subject: optparse examples
References: <_Uxcd.50307$b5.2548305@news3.tin.it>
	<ckvl18$p0e$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <sQTcd.158910$35.7775591@news4.tin.it>

> 
> Give a look to this:
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/278844

Carmine, I know this recipe of Michele but I was hoping in a few more
examples, thanks anyway for your help :)

> Bye

Ciao


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Oct 11 10:14:40 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 14:14:40 GMT
Subject: Help needed: try/except -idiom vs. C-style coding
References: <szuad.787$Vk6.540@read3.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <Xns957F9B085B26Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

pekka niiranen wrote:

> How can I use try/except -style if I want to know WHICH
> of functions 1-3 failed in try: -section and print
> that information? What should functions return in order to
> a) raise an exception and
> b) tell main_function "it was me who failed for this reason"
>     This message should be user specific.
> 

If you feel you *must* print the name of the function that failed then you 
can extract it from the traceback object:

>>> import sys, traceback
>>> def function1(): pass

>>> def function2(): raise RuntimeError('oops')

>>> def function3(): pass

>>> def main():
    try:
        function1()
        function2()
        function3()
    except RuntimeError:
        type, value, tb = sys.exc_info()
        filename, lineno, functionname, text = traceback.extract_tb(tb)[-1]
        print functionname

        
>>> main()
function2

A more usual way to handle this would be to just print a traceback. That 
way the user gets not only the information about the function that threw 
the exception, but also the route that led to that function.

>>> def main():
    try:
        function1()
        function2()
        function3()
    except RuntimeError:
        traceback.print_exc()

>>> main()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#50>", line 4, in main
  File "<pyshell#44>", line 1, in function2
RuntimeError: oops


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Tue Oct 26 04:00:59 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:00:59 +0100
Subject: Database Connectivity with python
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B5C@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Avinash Gohad]
| I am little new with the python & Database related programs....
| If I want to develope any database related application,with options
| like add,save,modify,delete,previous,last,next,first for maintaining
| Employee's records.I want to use .mdb file or d-base database as a
| backend.
| I guess there must be some Libraries & modules for using ODBC.
| In VB we can use ADO or DAO, In java we use JDBC, so for
| python please guide me for developing any basic application....

This is probably a good place to start looking:

http://python.org/topics/database/

Also, specifically for ODBC:

http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxODBC.html

or, for ADO:

http://www.ecp.cc/pyado.html

(or you could just use Google, which is what I just did)

TJG

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From wweston at att.net  Tue Oct  5 11:41:06 2004
From: wweston at att.net (wes weston)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:41:06 GMT
Subject: Problem with string parsing
In-Reply-To: <948b993a.0410050638.3a0340ec@posting.google.com>
References: <948b993a.0410050638.3a0340ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <mgz8d.666980$Gx4.409156@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Mike Howard wrote:
> If I do this:
> string.lstrip('1_mature_dt=10-May-2002','1_mature_dt=')
> I get:
> '0-May-2002'
> Which I did not expect
> string.lstrip('1_mature_dt=20-May-2002','1_mature_dt=')
> I get
> '20-May-2002'
> Which I expected
> string.lstrip('1_mature_dt=01-Jun-2003','1_mature_dt=')
> I get
> '01-Jun-2003'
> Which I expected
> 
> Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?

Mike,
    Note that after the appropriate if:

 >>> '1_mature_dt=10-May-2002'[len('1_mature_dt='):]
'10-May-2002'

wes



From noreply at python.org  Thu Oct 14 11:15:38 2004
From: noreply at python.org (MAILER-DAEMON)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:15:38 +0200
Subject: MDaemon Warning - virus found: Message could not be delivered
Message-ID: <20041014151638.7170D1E4004@bag.python.org>


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From LBorman at sjm.com  Tue Oct 26 13:49:08 2004
From: LBorman at sjm.com (Borman, Linda E)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:49:08 -0500
Subject: Please help - get average
Message-ID: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19CC4@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>

Hi , Im new to Python can you help.
Trying to create a program that  I can entered  only 10 random numbers, and
calculate the average of those numbers after executing a loop. Using for
loop.
 
 
Stumped
This is what I have so far.
 
# using for loop
number = 10
while number !=0 :
    number = input("Enter a number: ")
    count = number
    sum =  number
    for a in range (1):
        print sum 
        print "The average is: ", sum / count
    print "all Done"
 
Linda Borman
Senior - Documentation Specialist
St.Jude Medical, Daig Division
Direct Line (952) 352-9718   
EXT #218

 


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retain, copy or disseminate this communication without the consent of the
sender and that doing so may be unlawful. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify the sender via return e-mail and
delete it from your computer. Thank you. St. Jude Medical, Inc. 
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From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  5 23:25:41 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 20:25:41 -0700
Subject: GUI to browse and select images
References: <1096715845.204540.281600@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
	<ucOdndmICKmPePzcRVn-rg@adelphia.com>
	<1096982750.544401.74040@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0410051925.32df7a37@posting.google.com>

Hello,
    Have you looked into wxPython? PIL?
1)use your code or PIL to do your manipulations 
2)create thumbnails ( PIL )
3)generate an HTML page ( custom look , easy layout )
4)overide OnLinkClicked() to capture user selections (wxHTMLWindow.OnLinkClicked())
5)use wxHTMLWindow to display the page. ( wxHTMLWindow.SetPage(yourHTML) )
6)...
It should be fairly easy to get this running. 
300 to 1000 lines depending on details...just a guess ;)
wxHtmlWindow is a not even fully compliant with html 2,
but 'old-skool' table layout works.
Maybe someone will post with something better ;)
HTH,
    M.E.Farmer 
"ktenney at gmail.com" <ktenney at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<1096982750.544401.74040 at h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>...
> D,
> 
> I am interested in a very simple interface.
> A frame filled with thumbnails
> of images, allowing selecting multiple items.
> 
> I want to implement these thumbnail standards;
> http://triq.net/~jens/thumbnail-spec/index.html
> The set of thumbs in a frame would come from a list of
> thumb image file names. The list might be generated
> according to the contents of a directory, might be
> from a database query.
> 
> The spiffy management and manipulation functionality
> would be handled by right-click menus.
> 
> It seems the fashionable way to do such
> things (Zope3, Chandler, PEAK ...) is
> XML style configuration files.
> 
> <RightClickChoices>
> <menuitem label="Make Master',
> description = 'Convert image to tif, load in The Gimp',
> implements = ImageTools.MakeMaster />
> 
> <menuitem label = 'email image(s)',
> description = 'Resize, compress, prompt for address, send',
> implements = ImageTools.Relocate.EmailImage />
> 
> <menuitem label = 'Manipulate image',
> description = 'modify the image(s) in some cool way',
> implements = ImageTools.Manipulations />
> 
> <submenu>
> <menuitem label = 'swap palettes',
> description = 'exchange the colors used in 2 images',
> implements = ImageTools.Manipulations.SwapPalettes
> />
> 
> <menuitem label = 'embed images',
> description = 'place the image chosen first
> inside the second',
> implements = ImageTools.Manipulations.Embed />
> </submenu
> ...
> </RightClickChoices>
> 
> When a new routine is developed, it is entered into the menu
> configuration and becomes available to the app.
> 
> The code might look like;
> 
> import Chooser, ImageTools
> GUI = Chooser.Chooser()
> 
> images = getthumbchoices(path.imagefiles)
> -or-
> images = query('select thumb where mydb.client = webclient')
> 
> selectedimages, selectedmenuitem =  GUI(images)
> ImageTools.implement(selectedimages, selectedmenuitem)
> 
> I expect filesystem navigation would be handy,
> that could be handled by a tree widget which
> would send lists to the GUI.
> 
> I like the idea of the GUI remaining very simple, clean and fast,
> with very flexible functionality behind it.
> 
> I don't have the time or coding skills to implement it in
> anything but high level components..
> 
> Thanks,
> Kent


From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Sat Oct 23 12:56:30 2004
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:56:30 +0100
Subject: Slow debugging with Komodo
Message-ID: <417a8d3e$0$1161$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>

Hi,

On my dev machine (P4 1.7Ghz Win2K) debugging with Komodo is painfuly 
slow. There is a delay of several seconds when stepping over a single 
line of code. Debugging the same code with Pythonwin is very quick. Does 
anyone else experience slow debugging, and is there anyway to speed it up?


TIA,

Will McGugan


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct 30 07:18:02 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:18:02 +0200
Subject: names of parameters as string
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com><41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com><3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com><m31xfh8uhy.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu><mailman.5663.1099065452.5135.python-list@python.org><291020042102228624%JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom@no.spam.net>
	<1CC54D90-2A40-11D9-A5B8-0003939C968C@unito.it>
	<mailman.5706.1099127497.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clvt7v$qnb$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> 
> "andrea valle" <andrea.valle at unito.it> wrote in message
> news:1CC54D90-2A40-11D9-A5B8-0003939C968C at unito.it...
>>Suppose I have a string and I'd like to create a variable with its name.
>>How can I do that?
> 
> globals['varname'] = 3
> 
> difficult or impossible for function locals

Not difficult - only ugly, slow, and dangerous:

>>> def f(name, value):
...     a, b, c = 1, 2, 3
...     # FIXME put code to check name is really a name here
...     exec "%s=value" % name
...     loc = locals()
...     del loc["name"]
...     del loc["value"]
...     return "%s = %d" % ("+".join(loc.keys()), sum(loc.values()))
...
>>> f("x", 10)
'a+c+b+x = 16'
>>> f("x,y", (10,20))
'a+c+b+y+x = 36'

Peter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Oct  9 12:39:50 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:39:50 -0400
Subject: integer type conversion problem/question
References: <slrncmf2hc.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
Message-ID: <ck948l$adb$1@sea.gmane.org>

>Since in theory Python ints are  larger than C ints
> (since Python ints are implemented as C long ints),

Wrong premise.  On many (most?) systems today, C long == C int == 32 bits.

> there should be (in theory) no problem converting C unsigned ints to
> Python integers (corresponding to C long integers)

Hence wrong conclusion, as you discovered.  Unsigned C int > 2**31 does not 
convert properly to C long when C long == C int.

If you must program your own RNG, simplest solution is to limit it to range 
[0, 2**31-1] so signed/unsigned does not matter.

Terry J. Reedy





From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 15 18:09:28 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:09:28 -0700
Subject: checking available system memory?
In-Reply-To: <ckpa75$muv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <ckpa75$muv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <20041015150807.09A0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> I am doing linear algebra with large numarray. It is very efficient, but I
> have a small problem due to the size of my data. The dot product of a
> 10,000x3 double array with a 3x6,250,000 double array will consume 500GB of
> memory. I need to break the operations up into managable chunks, so I dont
> consume all the available memory and get a segmentation fault.
> 
> Its not a problem with numpy, I just need to intelligently slice up one of
> my arrays so my routine works within the available system resources. Are
> there any utilities that can query how much memory is available?

Unless you are running bigmem patches on linux, or the equivalent in
windows, you are limited to 2 gigs of memory per process.

How much memory do you really have?

 - Josiah



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 04:34:45 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:34:45 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<5Wu8d.25573$H11.796921@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <1gl8cxp.1bwobhn1emgfx1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

gabriele renzi <rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it> wrote:

> Jacek Generowicz ha scritto:
> 
> > _Most_ object-oriented languages support object orientation via the
> > message passing paradigm. Python included.
> 
> I disagree slightly.
> I think the difference is really subtle, but there are some dict-based
> languages like python and some message-based like smalltalk.
> Actually I think the discriminating is having a doesNotUnderstand:-like
> facility versus a __getattr__ one.

Please explain how this syntax choice "discriminates" anything
whatsoever?  __getattr__ is called when some message isn't understood by
the "normal" mechanisms of the object, too.


Alex


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 29 21:47:20 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:47:20 -0700
Subject: Finding the array index number for known content.
In-Reply-To: <3ir5o0djeqc4me3oh735oomvqijdanj63s@4ax.com>
References: <3ir5o0djeqc4me3oh735oomvqijdanj63s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20041029184306.0BFE.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


PhilC <pcooke at philc.net> wrote:
> If I have an array holding a pair of numbers, and that pairing is
> unique, is there a way that I can find the array index number for that
> pair?

If by "array" you mean "Python list", then yes:
   lst.index(pair)

If by "array" you mean "array from the array module", then "pair of
numbers" is just two adjacent numbers that are of your 'pair' value,
then you are going to have to do it by hand...

def find_pair(arry, val1, val2):
    for i in xrange(len(arry)-1):
        if arry[i] == val1 and arry[i+1] == val2:
            return i
    raise IndexError, "pair (%s, %s) not found in array"%(val1, val2)


 - Josiah



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct 18 21:37:53 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:37:53 -0700
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041018181713.0A55.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

Andrea Griffini wrote:
> I proposed python as the main language for our next CAD/CAM
> software because I think that it has all the potential needed
> for it. I'm not sure yet if the decision will get through, but
> something I'll need in this case is some experience-based set
> of rules about how to use python in this context.

I know of 2 startups who have decided to construct similar softwares in
Python, due to the fact that they can build entire packages in a year
with a small, but experienced, development team.  At least one
of them is funded in the tens-of-millions of dollars range by a
half-dozen automotive and aerospace companies.


Jonathan  Ellis wrote:
> Wouldn't it have been better to ask these questions BEFORE proposing
> python as (presumably) a Great Solution?  IMO, as great as python is,
> it isn't appropriate for projects that are large and include many
> developers.

Having recently released a piece of software with 10k lines of Python
running in its backend as a core technology, and being paid for it, I
will say that Python was and is the best tool for the job.  A C version
would have been at least 4-10 times as many lines, and we wouldn't be
releasing ~3 months after starting with nearly the confidence we are now.


In terms of developers, some projects require more than one developer,
and in that sense, Python works as well as other languages: planning is
key.

 - Josiah



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct  5 13:22:26 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:22:26 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <4162CFCE.6040700@cloudthunder.com>
References: <55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>
	<4162CFCE.6040700@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Really?  Well, I never took computer science so I guess I wouldn't 
> exactly know.  What's the point of making them write a report?

If you went to school, you would understand the point in doing a report
on almost anything.

Honestly, who the hell are you?

 - Josiah



From nospam at nowhere.com  Sat Oct 30 20:30:04 2004
From: nospam at nowhere.com (Greg Copeland)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:30:04 -0500
Subject: meta-sig alive?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.31.00.30.04.604064@nowhere.com>

Is the python meta-sig still alive?  I noticed that the archives are not
current.  I also recently posted it to and never got a reply.  Who do I
need to contact to create a SIG?

Thanks,

Greg



From franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at  Mon Oct  4 07:36:47 2004
From: franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:36:47 +0200
Subject: wxPython - what classes are available?
References: <470ec500.0410040000.7dcad024@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fcd2m0d7jaa484aolk9ocqbn83t5fer79u@4ax.com>

On 4 Oct 2004 01:00:35 -0700, moffie at clear.net.nz (moff) wrote:

>There seems to be a heck of a lot of wxEWindows classes available. 
>Can someone tell me (or send me a link of) what is compatable with
>wxPython?
>
>It can't be the whole lot, can it?
>
>(Wow, wxPython looks GREAT!)

Hi,

there is an overview of the classes, implemented in wxPython:

http://www.lpthe.jussieu.fr/~zeitlin/wxWindows/docs/wxwin_wxpython.html#wxpclasses
-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From s917124 at mail.yzu.edu.tw  Fri Oct  8 06:21:18 2004
From: s917124 at mail.yzu.edu.tw (mike)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 03:21:18 -0700
Subject: hi...about HTMLparser
References: <761727b3.0410070953.44f66d23@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4526.1097176375.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <761727b3.0410080221.68f6c781@posting.google.com>

Andreas Kostyrka <andreas at kostyrka.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.4526.1097176375.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 10:53:35AM -0700, mike wrote:
> > regards:
> > 
> > (1)could I use HTMLparser to delete some element 
> >    and the element's content from a file?
> Yes. If it makes sense depends upon your needs ;)
> 
> > (2)Is there a good document about how I can use the HTMLparser?
> See: http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/
> 
> Andreas
thank you anyway:

what I would like to ask is HTMLparser in Java language.
You mentioned is in C language edition.

Did I mistake your post?:P


May god bless you all.

best wishes


From lbates at syscononline.com  Fri Oct  1 10:20:33 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:20:33 -0500
Subject: recursing through files in a folder
In-Reply-To: <df19e346.0410010520.2fb318d9@posting.google.com>
References: <df19e346.0410010520.2fb318d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Ke-dneAIcYM7-sDcRVn-gA@comcast.com>

Scott Carlson wrote:
> New to Python.  Very new.
> 
> I need to pass a parameter to the program I create that points to a
> folder.  (How are params passed in?)
> 
> Then, I need to be able to scroll through each file in the folder,
> looking for files with a particular naming convention.
> 
> What is the best way to be able to look at each file in a folder and
> decide if I wish to use that one, and then go to the next file?
> 
> Thanks,
> Scott

Use getopt to pick up the root directory from call line
Use os.path.walk to walk each of the files/directories
Use glob.glob to get a list of files that match

Larry Bates


From tchur at optushome.com.au  Mon Oct 25 21:25:22 2004
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 11:25:22 +1000
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <clk89q$5da$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>
	<1098746958.22370.116.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<mailman.5466.1098748601.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clk5qk$4lt$1@news1.ucsd.edu>  <clk89q$5da$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <1098753922.18822.333.camel@emilio>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 11:12, Robert Kern wrote:
> Robert Kern wrote:
> > Tim Churches wrote:
> > 
> >> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 09:29, Cliff Wells wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> >>> If this is true, I can't think of any way for a program to run on a
> >>> GPL'd system (such as Linux) without becoming GPL'd itself (Unless it
> >>> doesn't do any I/O or malloc any memory <wink>). 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes. It seems to be them is some dissonance between these two positions:
> >>
> >> "It is OK for a closed-source application to allocate memory on a system
> >> running the GPLed Linux kernel"
> >>
> >> and
> >>
> >> "It is not OK for a GPL-incompatible Python application to import GPLed
> >> code into the runtime namespace it is using."
> >>
> >> I shudder to think what a judge and jury would make of such a
> >> distinction. 
> > 
> > 
> > I'm sure they would see the explicit exception made in the GPL:
> > 
> > """
> > However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not 
> > include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or 
> > binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of 
> > the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component 
> > itself accompanies the executable.
> > """
> 
> Okay, a not-so-retarded reply this time:
> 
>  From COPYING in the Linux kernel distribution:
> 
> """
>     NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel
>   services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use
>   of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work".
>   Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software
>   Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the Linux
>   kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it.
> """

OK, thanks. In other words, the above special exemption added to the
Linux kernel license gets around the problem of non-GPLed code running
on a GPLed kernel. I knew there had to be a clear answer to this. 

> Whether just using system calls is simply "normal use" for a GPLd OS 
> kernel or this is simply a special exception to the GPL for Linux only 
> is something that a court will have to decide. But such a suit would 
> have to be about some other GPL kernel, not Linux.

Looks like it is a special exception for the Linux kernel (or whatever
other Linux code is distributed with this COPYING file. Doesn't apply to
other GPLed code.

Personally I am now completely satisfied that Python code which imports
GPLed Python (or other) code must itself be distributed under the GPL or
a GPL-compatible license, and that there are no contradictions between
this requirement and the ability to run closed-source applications on
systems which use the Linux kernel.

-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0





From danperl at rogers.com  Sat Oct 30 13:17:33 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:17:33 -0400
Subject: Plugin system
References: <2uhjppF2a61u6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41839c8b$0$78279$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<2uhla5F2ahviqU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<Rpudnd4nENKWMB7cRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <CJ-dnanxkb5dUR7cRVn-1A@rogers.com>


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message 
news:Rpudnd4nENKWMB7cRVn-rQ at powergate.ca...
> Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
>> Irmen de Jong wrote:
>>>Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
>>>
>>>>How would you implement a plugin system (for a web-based application)?
>>>
>>>This is so general a question that I cannot think of anything concrete to 
>>>answer.
>>>Please ask again, with more detail about what you want/need/have in mind.
>>
>> Okay, the question is too open: My focus is on how you would structure
>> the plugin code (directories, files) and how you would write code to
>> load these plugins.
>
> And _this_ sounds like a combination of something that's more
> a design issue (the structure) and a trivial implementation
> detail (trivial in Python, anyway).
>
> I'll try anyway, as a first test case:  put all plugins in a
> standard folder, with nothing else present in that folder.
> They can be individual modules or packages as you will.
> The code to load the plugin consists of an __import__...
> and not much else.

I have done something similar, with a few differences.  I am using a 
convention that all the plugins are implemented as a class with a specific 
name ("Handler" in my case), each plugin in its own module (so each Handler 
class is scoped by its module).  I import all the modules in the directory 
dedicated to plugins and I do the following checks: the module contains a 
class Handler, the module is not the one implementing the base class itself 
(bit of a hack, I admit), and the Handler class is a subclass of the base 
class (use isinstance).  The checks allow to have also other modules in the 
plugins directory that do not actually implement a plugin (for instance, I 
have a mixin class in that same directory).

Because you have both plugins and sub-plugins you may want to use some 
checks like mine, so you have both plugins and sub-plugins in the same 
directory, but you select only the plugin classes.  That's if I understand 
your requirements correctly.

Dan

> Maybe this feedback will help you refine the question further...
>
> -Peter 




From jeffrey at fro.man  Sun Oct 17 15:02:34 2004
From: jeffrey at fro.man (Jeffrey Froman)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:02:34 -0700
Subject: List Flatten
References: <5c882bb5.0410161531.41713754@posting.google.com>
	<ckteik$sg7$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<10n500532adhd22@corp.supernews.com>
	<pan.2004.10.17.14.43.25.130715@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <10n5hf1fckqi1e@corp.supernews.com>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:

> The original poster explicitly mentioned not using recursion due to
> wanting to flatten things deeper than the call stack can go.

Thanks, I missed the OP.

Jeffrey


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 12 00:41:11 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 04:41:11 GMT
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416af306.8912565@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <416b5a27.35313838@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:11:11 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:36:21 -0400, "Clark C. Evans" <cce at clarkevans.com> wrote:
>>
>[Bengt]
Just want to say this isn't my latest idea ;-) See below:
(the first non-white-space after the opening ':<' determines the suite indentation level,
and the matching >: ends the suite (without necessarily being outdented or on a separate line).

>>| Well, if lambda is removed (or not ;-), I hope an anonymous def 
>>| expression is allowed, so we can write
>>| 
>>|    obj.f = def(args):
>>|                body
       obj.f = lambda args:<
                   body
               >:
    or

       obj.f = lambda args:<
                   body >:

>>| or
>>| 
>>|    obj.f = def(args): body

       obj.f = lambda args:< body >:

>>| 
>>| or
>>| 
>>|    obj.f = (
>>|        def(args):
>>|            body
>>|    )
       There wouldn't be much reason to use the extra parens above.
>>
>>Ewww.  How is this better than lambda? Let's keep lambda, no?
>>
>Sure, lambda is fine, but it doesn't allow statements, so something
>like def is needed. Just dropping the def name and allowing the
>def statement to be an expression seemed an easy step, since the
>name is basically the only difference.
I had second thoughts ;-)

>
>As seen above, finding an indentation style that is easy to read is
>a challeng, especially if the anonymous def is a middle argument to
>a functions call, e.g.,
>
>    func(arg1, (def(x): print x), arg3)

much better (IMO) now:

     func(arg1, lambda x:< print x >:, arg3)

>
>much as with lambda, you may need parentheses to show where the expression ends.
>For a more complex def, we get into multiple lines in the arg list, e.g.,
>expanded,
>
>    func(
>        arg1,   # use a new line to get consistent indenting of arg list items
>        (def(x, base=10):
>            """even anonymous defs could have doc strings"""
>            return int(x+'0', base) # weird function
>        ),
>        arg3
>    )


     func(
         arg1,   # use a new line to get consistent indenting of arg list items
         lambda x, base=10:<
             """even anonymous lambdas could have doc strings"""
             return int(x+'0', base) # weird function
         >:,
         arg3
     )

>
>or, more compactly,
>
>    func(arg1,
>         def(x, base=10):
>             """even anonymous defs could have doc strings"""
>              return int(x+'0', base) # weird function
>         ,arg3)

     func(arg1,
          lambda x, base=10:<
              """even anonymous lambdas could have doc strings"""
               return int(x+'0', base) >:, # weird function
          arg3)

One-liner:

     func(arg1, lambda x, base=10:< "weird func doc"; return int(x+'0', base) >:, arg3)


>
>It's a tough style problem. But what would you do with lambda, given that
>we don't have lots of insignificant silly parentheses?

I guess I took a stab at answering my own question ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 28 11:09:09 2004
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 08:09:09 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>

kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik) wrote in message news:<940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd at posting.google.com>...
> there seems to be a serious problem with allowing numbers to grow in a
> nearly unbounded manner, as int/long unification does: it hides bugs.

I think one important clarification needs to be made to this
statement: it hides bugs in code that depends on the boundedness of
integers, written before int/long unification.

The problem with int/long unification is that there is no simple
pure-Python alternative for those of us who need a bounded integer
type.  If our code depended on that raised OverflowError in order to
ensure that our computations were bounded, we're left high and dry
with ints and longs unified.  We must either drop down to C and write
a bounded integer type, or we're stuck with code that no longer works.

I'm by no means claiming that int/long unification is bad, only that
it leaves a hole in Python's toolbox where none existed before.  I
challenge anyone here to write a pure-Python class that does bounded
integer arithmetic, without basically reimplementing all of integer
arithmetic in Python.

Jeremy


From mwm at mired.org  Sun Oct 31 01:25:53 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:25:53 -0500
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnco6oak.nn.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
	<2uh8ckF2954t4U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnco6sv1.nn.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
Message-ID: <x7ekjfwgi6.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone <dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@gmail.com> writes:

> Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
>> For average programs, it seems that it will. Just think about classes.
>> One thing the freshmeat article complains about is breaking
>> compatibility. Well, you can't correct design mistakes by keeping old
>> syntax around.
> Correct, but breaking everything in the language will make Perl6 a
> completely new one, just preserving the name. And the community will have to
> relearn from scratch to love it. Are you ready to almost trash all the
> current perl5 library? 

They won't have to trash the Perl 5 libraries. Perl 5 is being
retargeted to Parrot, so that Perl 6 can call Perl 5 libraries, and
vice versa. And ditto for Python and Ruby.

     <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Oct 20 12:56:08 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:56:08 -0500
Subject: String changing on the fly
In-Reply-To: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com>
	(elie@flashmail.com's message of "20 Oct 2004 09:48:14 -0700")
References: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2brexcorb.fsf@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Eli" == Eli Daniel <elie at flashmail.com> writes:

    Eli> Hi, I'm new to Python. Can you please tell me if the
    Eli> following is possible.

    Eli> My users are using other scripting launguage to write
    Eli> scripts. They are used to write somthing like (keeping it
    Eli> simple) T = 100 do_action ('It cost $T dollars')

    Eli> where the above syntax ('It cost $T dollars') is interperted
    Eli> as ('It cost 100 dollars').  I saw on way of doing it by
    Eli> using 'it cost '+ str(T) + ' dollars'.  But trying to keep it
    Eli> backward compatible, is there a way for the function
    Eli> do_action, which resides in a class in a seperate file, to
    Eli> take the original string (with the '$T') and replace it with
    Eli> the value of T?

Python supports string interpolation with dictionaries, like

    >>> d = {'first':'John', 'T':2}
    >>> print '%(first)s paid %(T)s dollars'%d
    John paid 2 dollars

You can use the locals dictionary to work with locally defined variables

    >>> T = 5
    >>> first = Bill
    >>> first = 'Bill'
    >>> print '%(first)s paid %(T)s dollars'%locals()
    Bill paid 5 dollars

You can use regular expressions to convert $ syntax to python %(name)s
syntax


import re
def dollar_replace(matchobj):
    return '%(' + matchobj.group(1) + ')s'

def like_perl(s,d):
    rgx = re.compile('\$(\w+)')
    fmt = re.sub('\$(\w+)', dollar_replace, s)
    return fmt%d

T = 2
first = 'John'
print like_perl('$first paid cost $T dollars', locals())


You will probably want to tweak the regular expression so that any
valid python variable name is valid.

Cheers,
JDH


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 04:58:12 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 01:58:12 -0700
Subject: ANN: PySourceColor 1.7
References: <18282ecb.0410141705.4fb6de25@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410150058.46f0cdf5@posting.google.com>

I'd love to play with this - but my only NNTP access is via google
groups, which is mangling line endings.

Any chance of it being given an http presence ?

Regards,

Fuzzy

[reluctant snip of interesting code....]


From peter at semantico.com  Mon Oct 18 11:04:36 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:04:36 +0100
Subject: md5 and large files
In-Reply-To: <2thtm1F1u2mshU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<4172a5f6$0$28202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4172AA52.9030606@vt.edu> <sgjb42-phv.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<2thtm1F1u2mshU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4173db82$0$12843$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Tobias Pfeiffer wrote:
> I'd say there are quite a lot of 2 GB files that 
> produce the same md5 hash...

If you were concerned that two large files of the exact same size might be 
different but produce the same MD5 then please mail me copies of these files! 
Proof of an MD5 collision, which must happen, is rarely seen in the wild. But if 
you are still concerned then write a program that reads each file in in 32k 
chunks (for example) and creates an MD5 of each chunk and compares them. If the 
files are identical then they will match chunk for chunk.

Trouble is that you are now calculating the MD5 for two files rather than one 
and comparing it to a known value


From richie at entrian.com  Tue Oct 26 11:23:55 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:23:55 +0100
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
In-Reply-To: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
References: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
Message-ID: <ujqsn01larap8tua08i2hmrvkcs50ckp7e@4ax.com>


[Fred]
> I could have a daemon to 
> frequently poll that POP3 address, pulling only the headers (or maybe the 
> first body KB or so) and running those through a bayesian filter. If a 
> message comes out "clean" it is left on the server (so I can access it 
> from wherever I am), if it doesn't it is downloaded to a local mbox and 
> removed from the server (like getmail.py does) so I can still dig out the 
> occasional false positive when I'm home...

Andrew Dalke contributed a program to the SpamBayes wiki that does
exactly this:

  http://www.entrian.com/sbwiki/SpamBayesCuller
  http://www.entrian.com/sbwiki/RecentChangesOfSpamBayesCuller

"This program, sb_culler, uses SpamBayes to run a POP3 email culler.  It
 connects to my email servers every few minutes, downloads the emails,
 classifies each one, and deletes the spam and viruses.  (It makes a
 local copy of the spam, just in case.)"

You'll need to download and install the SpamBayes source code as well,
from:


http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=61702&package_id=58141

Take either the .tgz or the .zip, not the .exe (which installs a binary
application rather than the source).

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 09:28:26 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:28:26 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <du7lle86v1c.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com> <416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416d2af0.154298900@news.oz.net>
	<m3brf5z71z.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<mailman.4957.1097770559.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410142037.3703195c@posting.google.com>
	<du7lle86v1c.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <864d370904101506284932f8c7@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 Oct 2004 15:11:11 +0300, Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
> >>>>> "Michele" == Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>     Michele> Using a "metafunction" is a kind of abuse,
>     Michele> yes. Nevertheless, I used this trick to resolve the
>     Michele> metaclass conflict:
> 
>     Michele> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/204197c
> 
> Broken link, I guess you meant:
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/204197
> 
> I don't think the term "metafunction" is applicable, because calling
> it doesn't return a function, and everything that returns a callable
> object is at some level a metafunction (at least in the sense
> metaclass is a metaclass).

I used the term "metafunction" originally as a joke, followed by a
smile :-) For the lack of a better name, it was a reasonable play of
words at that particular time... but sure, a better name should exist.
As it is now, it's a degenerate metaclass of sorts -- pretty much like
a errant virotic RNA strand, lacking even the proteine capsule that
proper virus have... It's hard to classify.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From mwh at python.net  Tue Oct  5 09:29:00 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:29:00 GMT
Subject: stop executing
References: <cjtnn8$ht3$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <m3r7od47l0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Andreas Lobinger <andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de> writes:

> Aloha,
> 
> i want to put a short script and additional data together in
> an shellexecutable, like this
> 
> --begin-file--
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> import sys
> print sys.argv
> sys.exit()
> 
> other data following, strictly not in python syntax...
> --end-file--
> 
> I would expect the interpreter to stop after the sys.exit, but of
> course the parser tries to read on.
> lobingera at scylla: b.py
>    File "b.py", line 7
>      other data
>               ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> I have now a somehow working solution by putting the data in a
> multiline string, but that raises the subquestion:
> How much data can be put in a multiline string

Well, you'll get into real trouble around the 2 gig mark on most
machines, though I guess memory consumption will hurt you first.

> and how do i escape the tripple-" ?

backslashes?

Another option, instead of having 'python' in your hash-bang line
would be to have a program that preprocessed the file before handing
it to Python.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  If you don't use emacs, you're a pathetic, mewling, masochistic
  weakling and I can't be bothered to convert you.    -- Ron Echeverri


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Oct 12 13:40:32 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:40:32 +0200
Subject: ANN: Snakelets 1.35 (simple-to-use web app server with dynamic
 pages)
In-Reply-To: <kRPad.33244$Z14.13159@news.indigo.ie>
References: <416ae4b9$0$78749$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<buCad.33195$Z14.12881@news.indigo.ie>
	<416afed7$0$10528$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<kRPad.33244$Z14.13159@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <416c1710$0$42417$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Alan Kennedy wrote:

> Ah, one of the key questions! And the answer is that, iff you write 
> Snakelets according to the WSGI API, then it should be easily usable on 
> asynchronous architectures. This is achieved through the use of python 
> iterators (e.g. generators), so that application frameworks generate 
> content on demand, when the server/gateway is ready to transmit them.

Interesting idea. I haven't thought about generating output this way.

> It will all become clearer if you read the WSGI spec.

Will do :)

> So basically, porting Snakelets to WSGI would mean splitting Snakelets 
> into two parts, the server part and the framework part, with all 
> communications between the two governed by WSGI. Both parts would then 
> become interoperable with other WSGI components. Neat, eh?

Sounds neat, but I think this is a hard thing to do for me.
Anyway we'll see. First have to read the WSGI doc thoroughly.


> But the upside of Snakelets using generators is that I think you will 
> find that Snakelets architecture fits WSGI extremely well. Although WSGI 
> supports an old-style imperative API, i.e. where input and output is 
> explicitly read/written to IO channels, it is really designed so that 
> applications/frameworks supply content on demand, through an iterator 
> interface.

Hm, that's not what I meant by "using generators". I'm using them
for other things, but not the generation of output...

Thanks for answering my questions.

off-to-read-the-WSGI'ly yours,
  Irmen.


From rowen at cesmail.net  Wed Oct 27 13:38:07 2004
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:38:07 -0700
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
References: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<81a41dd.0410260035.60aee489@posting.google.com>
	<cllv09$kv9$1@news.Stanford.EDU>
	<rowen-E1A6D6.10270727102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <rowen-2E938D.10380627102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <rowen-E1A6D6.10270727102004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu>,
 "Russell E. Owen" <rowen at cesmail.net> wrote:

>One more question:
>- I noticed that when I use os.popen3 to open ds9, i have to keep the 
>returned reference to stdout around as long as ds9 itself is open or 
>Python hangs. I can't close it. I can't lose the reference and allow it 
>to be garbage-collected. Any suggestions for avoiding this? (At least it 
>doesn't prevent Python from shutting down when requested.)
>
>I had been using os.spawn... to launch ds9, but spawn is not supported 
>on Windows, alas. I communicate with ds9 via xpa, so the pipes returned 
>by popen3 are of no interest.

Sorry, that was a stupid question. I had been using spawnlp and hadn't 
noticed the little footnote in the docs about the spawn variants that 
aren't supported under Windows. All I have to do is switch to a version 
of spawn that IS cross-platform.

So. Case closed. Thanks again for everybody's help!

-- Russell


From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Oct 25 04:30:08 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 08:30:08 GMT
Subject: how do i change from string to list
In-Reply-To: <clib6b$9ur$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>	<417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>	<417c1cda$0$152$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>	<c76ff6fc.0410241958.7222d1f0@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5408.1098688267.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clib6b$9ur$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <kQ2fd.6581$KJ6.5016@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Michael Hoffman wrote:
>>>>> ''.join(["H", "e", "l", "l", "o"])

> That is the obvious way to do it.

As compared to the less obvious ways of


 >>> import array
 >>> array.array("c", list("this is a test")).tostring()
'this is a test'
 >>>

 >>> import cStringIO
 >>> f = cStringIO.StringIO()
 >>> for c in list("this is a test"):
...   f.write(c)
...
 >>> print f.getvalue()
this is a test
 >>>

 >>> import operator
 >>> reduce(operator.add, list("this is a test"))
'this is a test'
 >>>

 >>> def join(fields):
...   N = len(fields)
...   if N == 1: return fields[0]
...   if N == 2: return fields[0] + fields[1]
...   N = N//2
...   return join([join(fields[:N]), join(fields[N:])])
...
 >>> join(list("this is a test"))
'this is a test'
 >>>


   # only works for single character elements in the list
   # (or larger strings that don't have ", ")
 >>> s = "\"Let's go to the zoo!\", said \\Alice/\n"
 >>> print s
"Let's go to the zoo!", said \Alice/

 >>> list(s)
['"', 'L', 'e', 't', "'", 's', ' ', 'g', 'o', ' ', 't', 'o', ' ', 't', 
'h', 'e', ' ', 'z', 'o', 'o', '!', '"', ',', ' ', 's', 'a', 'i', 'd', ' 
', '\\', 'A', 'l', 'i', 'c', 'e', '/', '\n']
 >>> print eval(repr(list(s))[1:-1].replace(", ", " "))
"Let's go to the zoo!", said \Alice/

 >>>

   :)

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From junkmail at chipworks.net  Wed Oct  6 21:18:34 2004
From: junkmail at chipworks.net (Mike Monaghan)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 18:18:34 -0700
Subject: MAPI Server...
Message-ID: <ab19b1e4.0410061718.6a7df4b5@posting.google.com>

I have inherited a glueware application that I'd like to convert to
Python.  To avoid a long discussion here's how the application
works...

A voice mail system uses MAPI to pass a message to Outlook Express. 
Since Outlook Express has protection to prevent worms another program
hits the "It's okay to allow this" button.  Outlook then passes the
message to a SMTP server that puts the raw message in a file where
another program can pickup and parse the message into something
usable.

There's a lot of parts to this and to put it mildly I'm not really
happy with the way this is all put together.  I can't change the MAPI
call from the voicemail system.  The rest is open to debate.

The voicemail system treats Outlook as a MAPI server.  Is there any
support in Python to emulate this role?  I'd rather not reinvent the
wheel.  By emulating the Outlook Express' MAPI server I could take
Outlook, The button presser, the SMTP server, and a major part of the
last program out of the chain and provide a simple Python application
to do the job.  The logic in this isn't complex so python seems like a
natural if I can emulate the MAPI Server in Python.  Any references to
libs or source code would be great.

Thanks,

Mike


From prashant_pai at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 16:13:06 2004
From: prashant_pai at yahoo.com (Prashant Pai)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 13:13:06 -0700
Subject: mxDateTime package question
Message-ID: <991e921f.0410121213.213f0807@posting.google.com>

I have a Julian (?) date string '2000238' (format YYYYDDD) which
corresponds to 2000/08/25

How do I create a correct DateTime object with this?

thanks


From odysseus1479-at at yahoo-dot.ca  Tue Oct 12 21:30:59 2004
From: odysseus1479-at at yahoo-dot.ca (Odysseus)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 01:30:59 GMT
Subject: EVIL AMERICAN GOVT (aka FBI) is full of SADISTS and PERVERTS
References: <11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0@posting.google.com>
	<oe_ad.2602$SZ5.2249@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <odysseus1479-at-580B18.19305912102004@news.telus.net>

In article <oe_ad.2602$SZ5.2249 at newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
 "Lucas Raab" <pythongnome at hotmail.com> wrote:

> You can't help but love these little messages.
> 
> "vicky" <vickyp679 at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> news:11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0 at posting.google.com...
> > SUMMARY:
> >
> > THREE YEARS of and continuing MENTAL TORTURE, TERRORISM, SADISM and
> > BLATANT human rights violations by FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS.
> >

[snip nearly 600 lines]

Love them or not, I don't think anyone needs them reposted in their 
entirety, thanks.

-- 
Odysseus


From eurleif at ecritters.biz  Mon Oct 11 09:53:18 2004
From: eurleif at ecritters.biz (Leif K-Brooks)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:53:18 -0400
Subject: Using tuples correctly?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4695.1097497144.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F59@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.4695.1097497144.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2svh6sF1p2c1iU1@uni-berlin.de>

BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
> Because you have to declare classes before you can instantiate them.
> If you wanted a RGB tuple, would you really create a class for it? If
> you wanted a 2d point? I guess tuples aren't really needed in python,
> you can always get by by creating objects when you would have used
> types. However, creating a class when all you want is a C-like struct
> leads to alot of tedious and unnecessary work.

My C is a little (a lot) rusty, but don't structures have to be declared 
in pretty much the same way as Python classes? What's the difference?


From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Mon Oct 25 15:00:54 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:00:54 -0400
Subject: fastest table lookup
References: <mailman.5439.1098729682.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-0C3741.15005425102004@localhost>

In article <mailman.5439.1098729682.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 "Neal D. Becker" <ndbecker2 at verizon.net> wrote:

> I need a fairly small lookup table, and I'm wondering which data python data
> structure would be fastest.  I could use a list, tuple, dictionary, numeric
> array, or maybe plain python array.  The table would be indexed by simple
> integers and would be dense (filled).

My recommendation is that you implement the table, and test your 
implementation on some representative cases.  My sense is that for a 
small, dense table indexed by integers, it would be difficult to beat 
array indexing.  But rather than taking my suppositions for it, why not 
try it out and see?

-M

-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct 10 05:23:31 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:23:31 +0200
Subject: xml file structure for use with ElementTree?
References: <d4c0d480.0410082230.29766fac@posting.google.com><oPM9d.172$Bw1.90@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net><d4c0d480.0410090807.2a3ea1a2@posting.google.com>
	<wF1ad.8002$UP1.5169@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ckav2q$6tn$2@sea.gmane.org>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> <?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8'?>
>
> Besides describing which XML definition is used
> (there's only one I know about)

there's also this one:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xml11-20040204/

however,

    http://norman.walsh.name/2004/09/30/xml11

</F>





From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 22 14:47:14 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:47:14 -0700
Subject: structured unpacking assignments
In-Reply-To: <20041022115302.2d4e7b78.gry@ll.mit.edu>
References: <20041022115302.2d4e7b78.gry@ll.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <20041022113754.0AE3.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> mylist = [('the', 'article'), ('house', 'noun'), ('run', 'verb')]
> for n,(part,word) in enumerate(mylist):
>     word_array[n] = Usage(part, word)
> 
> 
> This actually feels a lot like lisp's macro destructure feature.
> Taking it a bit farther:
> [adapted from "Common Lisp", G.L. Steele Jr. 2nd Ed., Digital Press 1990]:
> 
> ((mouth, eye1, eye2),
>  ((fin1, len1),(fin2, len2)),
>  tail) = \
>     ((m, eyes[0], eyes[1]),
>      ((f1, count_scales(f1)), (f2, count_scales(f2))),
>      Mahabharata)
> 
> 
> Now, I think that pythoneers often use bare list/tuple structures
> when a class would be much clearer, and I don't recommend managing halibut
> data as in the example.  But the first example seems quite clear and natural.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  In the case of transferring data over a
network connection, there must be some encoding and decoding going on. 
Tuples of simple data are easily packed via struct.pack(), or if one is
being ambitous with their data (fixed order, but with values of
arbitrary size), pickle.dumps().

Struct will generally be faster, but you lose flexibility (you have to
change your packing and unpacking calls).  Pickle is more general, but
if you are using classes, then you must make sure that the class
definitions are both in-scope.

For those who use classes for C-struct-like named attributes, tuples are
sufficient for passing over a network.  For those who use classes with
full functionality, sometimes instance.totuple() and cls.fromtuple() are
better than relying on class pickling.


> Does anyone else have illustrious examples of structured unpacking?

None that I can show, but I do use this kind of thing.

One thing to remember is that the more items in your structure, the
slower it will run.  Probably not a deal breaker, but something one
should be aware of.

 - Josiah



From darren at coolpink.net  Tue Oct  5 00:00:53 2004
From: darren at coolpink.net (darren at coolpink.net)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 04:00:53 -0000
Subject: NorthWest(USA) Python Sprint #2 - October 23,24
Message-ID: <20041005040053.14929.qmail@ws2.coolpink.net>

Sorry, but I am out of the office on Monday 27th September until Monday 11th October 2004.

I will respond to your e-mail when I return

If you need technical support please contact simonh at coolpink.net or mazen at coolpink.net

For any other enquiries please call the office on (0113) 272 3191 

Thanks for your e-mail.




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Oct 14 12:36:05 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:36:05 -0300
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7A51@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Carlos Ribeiro]

#- As for C being a natural choice as far as the kernel part is
#- concerned... it may be because it compiles to efficient code, or
#- because it facilitates integration with assembler, or because it can
#- efficiently uses registers... Who knows? But the main reason is
#- probably simple: it's because everyone is just used to it.

Well, AFIK, Kernigan and Ritchie designed C just to help themselves to write
the OS.

.	Facundo
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From loritsch at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 02:33:55 2004
From: loritsch at gmail.com (Michael Loritsch)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 23:33:55 -0700
Subject: Win32+Zope+Python+Databases: What are my options?
References: <jZxfd.1119$mm6.1114@amstwist00>
	<v82dnbiwouf3L-PcRVn-1Q@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <e253918f.0410262233.3286bf0b@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<v82dnbiwouf3L-PcRVn-1Q at powergate.ca>...
> Carl wrote:
> > Using COM and ADO on Win32, it is very easy to access databases (eg MySql,
> > MS SQL Server, etc) from Python.
> > 
> > Does anybody know if it is possible to access databases from Zope (which is
> > written in Python) using COM and ADO? 
> 
> Do you mean "Does Zope have built-in support for this?"
> or "Does such a facility already exist for Zope?" or something else?
> 
> Because if, as you note, Zope is written in Python, then it
> should be reasonably obvious that you can write a Zope
> extensions/script/product which will do exactly what you need,
> if one doesn't already exist.
> 
> By the way, Python has a "DB API", which pair of acronyms may help
> direct your web searches for a solution...
> 
> -Peter

As Peter said, Python has a database API specification.  The idea is
to encourage the similarity between python modules that are used to
access databases.  The DB API uses a different interface than ADO on
Win32, but you could choose to access databases in that way as well
using Python if you desired to do so.

For more information on the DB API, check out
http://www.python.org/topics/database/.  Here you will find not only
the specification, but also the different modules which implement it. 
If would like to buy a book on the subject, I recommend Steve Holden's
Python Web Programming, as it has a great introduction on the DB API.

Now, concerning Zope...  Zope has quite a few 'products' that can
access relational databases directly.  Although, since Zope has an
object database built in, there is often no need for a Zope
application to access a relational database.

Anyways, to get back to answering your question, Zope can be used to
access relational databases using Zope products.  Whether or not there
are any products using COM and ADO for this database access, I do not
know.  If you would like to find out, go to http://zope.org/ and
search 'Zope Products' for what you're looking for.

Last, but not least... If there are no suitable products in Zope for
your needs, you can certainly write your own Zope product that access
database using COM and ADO.

Regards,

Michael Loritsch


From belred1 at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  3 00:11:37 2004
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 04:11:37 GMT
Subject: WeakValueDictionary
In-Reply-To: <VEK7d.58507$He1.41678@attbi_s01>
References: <VEK7d.58507$He1.41678@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <ZZK7d.58628$He1.34340@attbi_s01>

Bryan wrote:
> there must be something i don't understand about WeakKeyDictionary and 
> WeakValueDictionary.  i had expected the last line to be empty because i 
> thought i deleted the last strong reference to variable "a". what am i 
> misunderstanding?
> 
>  >>> d = weakref.WeakValueDictionary()
>  >>> a = A()
>  >>> d[1] = a
>  >>> d.items()
> [(1, <__main__.A instance at 0x0116BC60>)]
>  >>> del a
>  >>> d.items()
> [(1, <__main__.A instance at 0x0116BC60>)]
>  >>>
> 
> thanks,
> 
> bryan


i have another question about weak references.   how do you know that b is dead?


 >>> a = A()
 >>> b = weakref.ref(a)
 >>> b
<weakref at 011739F0; to 'instance' at 01135CB0>
 >>> del a
 >>> b
<weakref at 011739F0; dead>


From lbates at syscononline.com  Mon Oct  4 19:06:58 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:06:58 -0500
Subject: idiom for debug code?
In-Reply-To: <6tadnfHqDdcg9cHcRVn-hQ@rogers.com>
References: <y6SdnUz8sr673sHcRVn-gA@rogers.com>
	<wfmdnXvIef4v1cHcRVn-vQ@comcast.com>
	<6tadnfHqDdcg9cHcRVn-hQ@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <AtedndbqhpwTSvzcRVn-jw@comcast.com>

Dan Perl wrote:
> I was not thinking of actually removing code.  The analogy to C++ 
> preprocessing was just an example.  I am looking at something that can be 
> determined at run-time, not compile-time.
> 
> And you're right, I'm not really concerned about the overhead of an "if" 
> because I will not use this extensively anyway.  This problem occurred to me 
> when I decided to add an import for win32traceutil.  I'm looking for a way 
> to have that permanently in the code and enabling/disabling it only at 
> run-time.
> 
> I have thought of alternatives like an environment variable or a 
> configuration parameter, but I was looking for other ideas.  I thought this 
> should be a common issue and that there could be an idiom for it.
> 
> Dan
> 
> PS: in the case of importing win32traceutil, I guess that checking the 
> environment would be necessary anyway, or the import should be in a try 
> statement, ignoring the exceptions.
> 
> "Larry Bates" <lbates at syscononline.com> wrote in message 
> news:wfmdnXvIef4v1cHcRVn-vQ at comcast.com...
> 
>>Dan Perl wrote:
>>
>>>Is there a mechanism or an idiom for adding code for debugging so that it 
>>>can easily be removed in the production code?  I am thinking of something 
>>>similar to the C/C++ preprocessor statements with which you can compile 
>>>an application with the debug code or without it (the default).
>>>
>>>Dan
>>
>>Personally I think you should consider NOT removing the debugging code.
>>It never ceases to amaze me how many times I must have a client run
>>the application with debug set so that the program logs details about
>>the running process and intermediate results.  The output logfile can
>>then be easily emailed, faxed, etc. to me so that I can determine what
>>is REALLY the problem.  The overhead of these if _debug: "type"
>>statements seems incredibly low compared to the ability to get this
>>information when needed.  Just some thoughts based on my experience
>>of the last 30+ years.
>>
>>Larry Bates
>>Syscon, Inc. 
> 
> 
> 

Dan,

You have 3 choices:

1) Interrogate the environment to see what needs to be done.  Like
figuring out you are on Windows do one thing, on Linux something else.
sys.platform comes in handy for this choice.

2) Arguments to the processor (e.g. program -W).  Then you can do
different things depending on the arguments.  I use getopt to pick
these up.

3) Entries in .INI file.  I use this a LOT.  Entries to turn on
tracing, set my debug level, saving default paths, etc. can easily
be set in configuration files (see ConfigParser).  I actually use
config files AND arguments on the processor call simultaneously.
Processor call arguments override anything in the .INI file.
I have code that has thousands of lines of if _debug > 1: dosomething
and just don't see any performance problems.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 14 20:44:24 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:44:24 GMT
Subject: The Art of  Pickling: Binary vs Ascii difficulties
References: <171d9905.0410141128.3104bb95@posting.google.com>
	<416ef368$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<bSCbd.3337$6k2.349@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4975.1097792825.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416f19e5.281007537@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:38:25 -0500, John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>>>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:
>
>    Andrew> Standards wonk that I am, I was curious about this.  I've
>
>Well, if you are a standards wonk and emacs user, you might have fun
>with this little bit of python and emacs code.  If you place rfc.py in
>your PATH
>
>#!/usr/bin/env python
># Print an RFC indicated by a command line arg to stdout
>#   > rfc.py 822
>
>import urllib, sys
>
>try: n = int(sys.argv[1])
>except:
>    print 'Example usage: %s 822' % sys.argv[0] 
>    sys.exit(1)
>
>print urllib.urlopen('http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc%d.txt' % n).read()
>
>
>and add this function to your .emacs
>
>;;** RFC
>(defun rfc (num)
>  "Insert RFC indicated by num into buffer *RFC<num>*"
>  (interactive "sRFC: ")
>  (shell-command 
>    (concat "rfc.py " num)
>    (concat "*RFC" num "*")))
>
>
>You can get rfc's in your emacs buffer by doing
>
>  M-x rfc ENTER 20 ENTER
>
>And now back you our regularly scheduled work day.
>
Thanks. For win32 users with gvim I've modified it a little ...

---< vrfc.py >---------------------------------------
# vrfc.py
# to use in gvim on win32, put this file somewhere
# and put a vrfc.cmd file in one of your %PATH% directories
# (e.g. c:\util here) running python with a full path to this
# script (vrfc.py), e.g.,
# +--< vrfc.cmd >------------+
# |@python c:\util\vrfc.py %1|
# +--------------------------+
# (This cmd file is necessary on NT4 and some other windows platforms
# in order for the output to be pipe-able back into gvim (or anytwhere else)).
# Then you can insert an rfc into your current gvim editing using
# :r!vrfc n
# where n is the rfc number
# Form form feeds are converted to underline separators 78 chars wide
# and \r's if any are stripped for normalized output, in case.
#
import urllib, sys
try: n = int(sys.argv[1])
except:
    print 'Example usage: python %s 822' % sys.argv[0] 
    sys.exit(1)
s = urllib.urlopen('http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc%d.txt' % n).read()
s = s.replace('\r','')
s = s.replace('\x0c','_'*78+'\n')
sys.stdout.write(s)
sys.stdout.close()
--------------------------------------------------------
;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 27 00:20:36 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:20:36 -0700
Subject: RadioBox in wxPython
In-Reply-To: <KGEfd.35074$QJ3.3747@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
References: <417e0899@news.seeder.net>
	<mailman.5503.1098793300.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<KGEfd.35074$QJ3.3747@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <1098850837.22370.396.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 03:34 +0000, StvB wrote:
> Do I have to go to 2.4 in order to start using wx.Control, versus wxControl 
> ?

Yes.  But frankly, if you are going to upgrade, why not go to 2.5?  In
2.4 the wx namespace is a hack.  In 2.5 it's the real thing.  Plus there
are plenty of other enhancements.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From pcooke at philc.net  Fri Oct 29 22:04:12 2004
From: pcooke at philc.net (PhilC)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:04:12 -0400
Subject: Finding the array index number for known content.
References: <3ir5o0djeqc4me3oh735oomvqijdanj63s@4ax.com>
	<mailman.5693.1099101294.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ajt5o0l3337qigq0lqkvjems2bf5j3htva@4ax.com>

That was quick :)

Thank you very much indeed.

Regards

Phil

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:47:20 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu>
wrote:

>
>PhilC <pcooke at philc.net> wrote:
>> If I have an array holding a pair of numbers, and that pairing is
>> unique, is there a way that I can find the array index number for that
>> pair?
>
>If by "array" you mean "Python list", then yes:
>   lst.index(pair)
>
>If by "array" you mean "array from the array module", then "pair of
>numbers" is just two adjacent numbers that are of your 'pair' value,
>then you are going to have to do it by hand...
>
>def find_pair(arry, val1, val2):
>    for i in xrange(len(arry)-1):
>        if arry[i] == val1 and arry[i+1] == val2:
>            return i
>    raise IndexError, "pair (%s, %s) not found in array"%(val1, val2)
>
>
> - Josiah



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 27 20:00:32 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:00:32 GMT
Subject: Equivalent of Javascript Bitwise Operators
References: <6f402501.0410270304.5329539c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <418030d0.944192737@news.oz.net>

On 27 Oct 2004 04:04:36 -0700, fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) wrote:

>Please pardon my ignorance on this one - but I'm not certain how the
>sign bt is treated in python bitwise operators. I've trying to convert
>a javascript DES encryption routine into python.
>
>Javascritp has >>> and >>. >>> is a zero fill bit shift whereas >> is
>a sign propagating bit shift. My understanding is that the python >>
>is equivalent to the javascript >> - but python has no equivalent to
>>>>.
>
>Would a >>> 3 in javascript be equivalent to abs(a) >> 3 in python
>(make sure the sign bit is set to zero first) ?
>
No. Python has the sign bit virtually extended infinitely to the left, so
you'll never see the zeroes ;-)

IOW, python (no longer) make the assumption that bit 31 (or 63 on 64 bit platforms??!!)
is a sign bit in its integers. Unification of int and long is behind that.

If you want to shift in zeroes from above 32 bits of a possibly negative number,
mask it down to 32 bits, don't use abs. I.e, use int((a&0xffffffffL) >> 3)

(A 32-bit positive number with zeroes in the sign bits has to be a long unless
you have a 32-bit machine. The unification is trying to get away from that platform
dependency from version 2.4 on (I have 2.3). Then hex literals will all be positive
numbers. But I guess there will still be an int/long representation duality, so if
you want to make the above int again, after the & with a long constant, you have to
do the int(result). I'm not sure what type(a&0xffffffff) >> 3) will be in 2.4, but
I suspect long. I guess I should install the new beta.

>In actual fact I'm now using DES3 from Pycrypto - but I'm still
>interested in the answer to the question. In case anyone is interested
>I've done some work with some Javascript encryption and python
>equivalents. Thsi allows you to build client side encryption into
>webpages - e.g. for secure logins. It all works - very nice.
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Oct 13 10:48:02 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:48:02 +0200
Subject: locks
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4835.1097670275.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qa-dnWDkDKi-uPDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4845.1097675044.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckjd0k$li6$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4855.1097677251.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckjf70$rcg$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> 
> Have you looked at the Queue module?  It was explicitly designed for
> this sort of thing and removes all doubt about thread-safety.

Sure, and I use it when appropriate, as said in response to another post of
yours.

But so far in my expirience, explicit serialization of access to certain
data structures was only necessary when more complicated structural
modifications where under way - but the usual suspects, as appending to
lists, insertion of values in dicts and the like never needed this. And
that I wanted to point out.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From robby at planetargon.com  Wed Oct 13 12:08:04 2004
From: robby at planetargon.com (Robby Russell)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:08:04 -0700
Subject: search in tgz file content
In-Reply-To: <2t5189F1rf5gmU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2t5189F1rf5gmU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1097683684.4702.7.camel@vacant>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 18:51 +0300, News.Individual.NET wrote:
> Hi All,
> Is there a way to search in *.tgz file? I mean to search in files that are
> included in that *.tgz file. Some ideas?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> Zlatozar
> 

There is a shell program called zgrep that I believe can do this.

-Robby

-- 
/***************************************
* Robby Russell | Owner.Developer.Geek
* PLANET ARGON  | www.planetargon.com
* Portland, OR  | robby at planetargon.com
* 503.351.4730  | blog.planetargon.com
* PHP/PostgreSQL Hosting & Development
****************************************/

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From drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com  Sat Oct 23 16:10:29 2004
From: drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com (drs)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:10:29 GMT
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

"drs" <drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526 at twister.nyroc.rr.com...
I didn't state what I am doing quite so clearly (or correctly), so I'll try
again.  I am looking for a list of all unique strings of length x whose
elements are from the set a, b, and c.

So, for example, in this case it would be

aaa, aab, aac, aba, abb, abc, aca, acb, acc, ... cca, ccb, ccc

but I need for the length and the number of elements to be variable.

I understand this will get out of hand very quickly for large numbers, but I
only need it for small length/numbers.

Thanks,

-d




From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 00:37:59 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:37:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: subclassing builtin types
References: <740c3aec04100721233e857588@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041008T062830-286@post.gmane.org>

BJ?rn Lindqvist <bjourne <at> gmail.com> writes:
> Take for example this class which
> is supposed to be a representation of a genome:
> 
> class Genome(list):
>     def __init__(self):
>         list.__init__(self)
>         self = ["A", "G", "C", "G", "A"]
>         ....
> 
> etc, you get the point. The line self = ["A", "G", "C", "G", "A"] will
> not work like I have intended.

This will not work as you intended because all you're doing is binding the 
name "self" to a new object.  When the method is called, self is bound to the 
object instance to be created.  When you assign to self, you bind it to some 
other object.  For comparision, consider the code:

>>> def f(lst):
...     lst = []
...
>>> l = [1, 2, 3]
>>> f(l)
>>> l
[1, 2, 3]

Hopefully, you didn't expect l to become the empty list?  The arguments to the 
__init__ method of a class work just the same as the arguments to any other 
method -- they're just names bound to objects.  Binding them to different 
objects does not change the original objects.

You want to do one of the following:

list.__init__(self, ["A", "G", "C", "G", "A"])

or

self.extend(["A", "G", "C", "G", "A"])


> There are quite a few other problems I
> can't solve too, but getting the [] operator right seems almost
> impossible.

I don't know what you mean by this?  Do you mean you can't index your list?  
(E.g. lst[0]).  Could you give an example of your problem here?

> Then I've asked around on IRC and the general consensus
> seem to be that subclassing buiiltin types is Not A Good Idea <TM>. 
> Why not?

I agree with this for some classes.  I think there is very little call for 
subclassing, say, int.  But I know I've subclassed dict a couple of times to 
do useful things like allowing only one entry per key, etc.

> Why is it so much harder in Python?

It's not, if you understand name binding. ;)

Steve





From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Tue Oct 26 17:46:45 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:46:45 +0200
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5321.1098456297.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u45bhF263o38U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5430.1098718895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u74k3F277sd4U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <417ec5c5$0$30592$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Oliver Fromme wrote:

> The appropriate type checking is done at compile time.  That
> is, if your program calls sort with two lists of different
> type (e.g. a list of strings and a list of ints), then the
> compiler will detect that and report an error.

This must be a bad example because I expect to be able to sort a list of
integers and a list of strings with the same sort function.




From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Fri Oct 29 23:06:45 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:06:45 -0400
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
In-Reply-To: <5dr852-obu.ln1@lairds.us>
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>	<3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>	<mailman.5640.1099009520.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<5dr852-obu.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <41830545.3040600@cloudthunder.com>

Cameron Laird wrote:

>In article <mailman.5640.1099009520.5135.python-list at python.org>,
>Richard Blackwood  <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
>			.
>			.
>			.
>  
>
>>Is Python not bytecode interpreted?  It has no JIT with the standard 
>>distro but otherwise, it is no less byte-code than Java.  Misleading.
>>    
>>
>			.
>			.
>			.
>Like many propositions in this thread, this one bears repetition
>and examination.  Even people in authority reiterate that "Java
>is compiled, while Python is interpreted." 
>
So now Java is compiled eh?  I suppose that is more accurate but I 
prefer to say that Java is bytecode compilable whereas Python is 
bytecode interpreted.  So with a broad stroke, I would say I am inline 
with those in "authority", though I tend to be more specific.

> Outsiders are going
>to hear this said by people who appear to be speaking truthfully.
>
Indeed, appearances can be deceiving.  ;-)

> 
>It's at best misleading, of course, as Mr. Blackwood recognizes. 
>There ought to be a way to armor the innocent against it ...
>  
>
Quite right, just tell them Java is byte-code compiled and Python is 
bytecode interpreted (with the ability to be bytecode compilable).  I 
wonder, how does Psyco match up with Java's JIT?


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct 25 16:07:41 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:07:41 -0700
Subject: fastest table lookup
In-Reply-To: <10nqm0t279plbb3@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.5439.1098729682.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10nqm0t279plbb3@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041025130328.0B19.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> Neal D. Becker wrote:
> 
> >I need a fairly small lookup table, and I'm wondering which data python data
> >structure would be fastest.  I could use a list, tuple, dictionary, numeric
> >array, or maybe plain python array.  The table would be indexed by simple
> >integers and would be dense (filled).
> >  
> >
> 
> Which data structure will be fastest depends to some degree on the exact 
> usage that it's being put to, but in most cases I expect that a 
> dictionary will be the best bet.  IIRC, list (and tuple) indexing is 
> O(n) (with n=len(list)), while dictionary references are O(1).  In some 
> circumstances, it may (or may not) be possible to achieve further 
> speedup by using a python array or numarray, but unless you're already 
> planning on using numarray for other things, I'd consider its usage for 
> a lookup table to be a premature optimization.

Goodness, read the docs and source.  Lists and tuples are implemented as
arrays. They are /truely/ O(1) on read (they are not linked lists, as
you seem to imply).

Dictionaries, on the other hand, are hash tables that while not being
/truely/ O(1) on read, generally do pretty well, and are implemented
based on theoretical research in the area (again, read the source).

Do some reading.


 - Josiah



From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct 26 15:33:42 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:33:42 GMT
Subject: Yet Another Command Line Parser
In-Reply-To: <5c4tn0latkspkrrlj8r66qj7h35qbpies0@4ax.com>
References: <5c4tn0latkspkrrlj8r66qj7h35qbpies0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <qExfd.3218$kM.28@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Manlio Perillo wrote:
> # add spaces to avoids errors like: 1 2, 3 4 -> (12, 34)
> _options = ' '.join(sys.argv[1:])
> 
> def call(func):
>     """
>     Call func, passing to it the arguments from the command line
>     """
>     exec('func(' + _options + ')')

> The only problem is that error messages are ugly.

And it's a huge security hole.  What if I did


script.py "x=6)\
import os
os.system('ls -l')"

Even if not a security hole, it's tricky to handle the
combined shell and Python escaping rules

   script.py  x="This is a string"

won't work, while

   script.py  'x="This is a string"'

should. Embedding ! and \escaped characters should be
even more fun.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From bh at intevation.de  Mon Oct 11 06:55:36 2004
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:55:36 +0200
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<%5E9d.7075$UP1.6600@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4167128b$0$538$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<YuG9d.7186$UP1.961@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1glgsb2.18pqhx5cl99c3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <s9z4ql14j87.fsf@thetis.intevation.de>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

>> Grant Edwards:
>> > No, he explained exactly what he was trying to do, and it had
>> > nothing to do with encryption.  He wants to know if exactly one
>> > (1) of the strings is the empty string.
[...]

>     not str1 ^ not str2
[...]
>     not str1 != not str2

These give syntax errors, actually.  I wouldn't have expected that
either, though :)

>
>     str1 != str2 and (str1+str2) == (str2+str1)

Counter example:
>>> str1 = "x"; str2 = "xx"
>>> str1 != str2 and (str1+str2) == (str2+str1)
True


   Bernhard


-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Skencil                                http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 10:34:00 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 07:34:00 -0700
Subject: Quixote Question
References: <mailman.4560.1097223794.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410080634.393bb082@posting.google.com>

Tim Golden <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.4560.1097223794.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> [Fuzzyman]
> | I think I am going to have a play with Quixote. I think I've finally
> | got my head around what it can be useful for and there are definitely
> | some parts of my site it will be helpful for. It still leaves the
> | question of whether I'm able to install it on someone else's serevr
> | without a shell account of course.....
> 
> As long as you have FTP access and the ability to specify a
> PYTHONPATH somehow (eg via .htaccess on Apache), you just need 
> to copy a quixote directory from your own machine: it's pure 
> python (I think). I've done that on my cornerhost.com account 
> without any problems.
> 

I think it's an APACHE server, so I should be alright with that. It's
just that there are two c files in the src directory : _c_htmltext.c
and cimport.c

I won't easily be able to compile those *on* the server (I don't
think). I *might* be able to get the sysadmin to do a proper install -
but no guarantees.

> You've probably sussed this already, but it's perfectly possible
> to have most of your site static with dynamic parts serviced via
> Quixote: just call them via your quixote_handler.cgi, possibly

I haven't even gone through the demo yet - so I don't know much about
the practicalities *at all*. But I *think* I understand why it will be
useful. I imagine you build your website as a single application with
the URLS mapping to function calls etc... The browser being the user
itnerface to your program. As I will probably have to use standard CGI
I will have to implement my own session persistence.

I can always just use quixote for the dynamic parts and plain HTML for
the rest..... (I assume)

> hidden behind a rewrite to provide a more graceful URL.
> 

Hmm... how would I do a rewrite ? Send a redirect header ?

Thanks for your help.

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> TJG
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
> service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
> anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
> http://www.star.net.uk
> ________________________________________________________________________


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sat Oct 16 19:31:34 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 16:31:34 -0700
Subject: List Flatten
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0410161531.41713754@posting.google.com>

This is my first Python program (it's an improvement of a recursive
version by Luther Blissett). Given a list like this:
[["a", 2, [], [3, 5, (2,1), [4]]]]

It produces the "flatted" version:
["a", 2, 3, 5, (2, 1), 4]

I think this operation is quite important, and it's similar to the
built-in Mathematica Flatten function:
l = {{"a", 2, {}, {3, 5, {4}}}}
Flatten[l]
=> {"a", 2, 3, 5, 4}

This program works for very deep lists too, without giving Stack
overflow like the recursive version (and it's faster than the
recursive version).

There's an added loop to speed up the already quite flat lists (I
think they are the most common) but this slows down a bit the
flattening of very deep lists. I don't know if this is the best
compromise for average situations.
I've tried a version with the stack as a dictionary, but the timings
are almost the same and it uses a LOT more memory (I've tried it with
lists with a million nested levels).

def listflatten(l):
    """Flattens a list, examples:
    listflatten("a") => "a"
    listflatten([]) => []
    listflatten([[1,[2,[],"a"]]) => [1,2,"a"]
    """
    if type(l) != list:
        return l
    else:
        result = []
        stack = []
        stack.append((l,0))
        while len(stack) != 0:
            sequence, j = stack.pop(-1)
            while j < len(sequence):
                if type(sequence[j]) != list:
                    k, j, lens = j, j+1, len(sequence)
                    while j < len(sequence) and \
                          (type(sequence[j]) != list):
                        j += 1
                    result.extend(sequence[k:j])
                else:
                    stack.append((sequence, j+1))
                    sequence, j = sequence[j], 0
        return result

I think this program is essentially (almost) O(n) because the sequence
list isn't really copied when it's inserted into the stack, and in
some tests I've seen that the pushes-pops in the lists tail are almost
O(1) (but the Append of an element in the head of a list is ~O(n)).
Bugs: for really big lists this program can crash for memory overflow.
I still don't know how to fix this problem. The exception MemoryError
doesn't come even when the HD trashes a lot... This is probably a
memory management problem of the Operative System... -_-

Comments are appreciated,
bear hugs,
bearophile


From riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net  Thu Oct 14 12:09:58 2004
From: riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net (Riccardo Galli)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:09:58 +0200
Subject: ANN: curses-extra 0.2
References: <pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050@cut.me.sideralis.net>
	<cklqg3$di7$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.14.16.09.55.6728@cut.me.sideralis.net>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:12:35 +0200, David Fraser wrote:

> Riccardo Galli wrote:
>> First official release :)
>> 
>> curses-extra offers various widgets written using curses module.
>> [...]

> Riccardo, this looks fantastic!
> I wonder if it would be a good idea to look at some of the Python GUI 
> wrappers that wrap multiple different GUIs.
> PyGui is the main one:
> http://nz.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python_gui/
> and recently I saw this:
> http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/twgui/
> 
> If you can have those approaches in mind when you design your API it may 
> be possible to add curses-extra, so that an application can use a 
> text-based GUI as an alternative!
> 
> David

Thanks David,
I'll look for the two projects, and I'll try to add the widgets or the
options still not present.
It would be so nice to have universal GUIs.

Thank you again,
Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net


From jmeile at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 29 06:01:48 2004
From: jmeile at hotmail.com (Josef Meile)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:01:48 +0200
Subject: Grail
In-Reply-To: <49eaf5fc.0410281627.44508abe@posting.google.com>
References: <49eaf5fc.0410281627.44508abe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4182150C.80906@hotmail.com>

Hi Tino,

 > where can somone download a Grail browser for linux? Does anyone have 
a link?
if you mean a binary, I think there isn't such thing any more. On this page:
http://grail.sourceforge.net/info/oldbugs.html

you will find textually:

 > General Project Bugs
 > It is no longer possible to provide "binary" versions of Grail, due 
to > incompatibilities between Python freeze and the package 
implementation > ("ni.py").

Otherwise, you can download the source code and compile it:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=6416

I have done it and it wasn't difficult.

Regards,
Josef


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 12:15:57 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:15:57 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <m3brf5z71z.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com> <416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416d2af0.154298900@news.oz.net>
	<m3brf5z71z.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <864d370904101409155df5c2fa@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:51:52 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:
> bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
> 
> > IIRC it was Guido himself who let the cat out of the bag about a
> > function, in some early metaclass notes. But maybe I don't RC ;-)
> 
> I don't get the fuss about a function vs a class for the value of
> __metaclass__.  It's a callable.  It gets called.  No mystery *here*
> :)

I think it has something to do with the intended working of
metaclasses. After all, they're called meta_classes_, not
metafunctions :-) But on a more serious note: in other languages, such
as Smalltalk, metaclasses are a standard part of the language, and are
_classes_. There is a _metaclass hierarchy_, superimposed to the class
hierarchy. Metaclasses are supposed to be classes because they can be
inherited from, for example. And I believe that was only by accident,
and not by a explicit design choice, that Python's implementation
accepts any callable as a metaclass.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From ssa-managers-admin at mailman.eng.auburn.edu  Thu Oct  7 17:37:13 2004
From: ssa-managers-admin at mailman.eng.auburn.edu (ssa-managers-admin at mailman.eng.auburn.edu)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:37:13 -0500
Subject: Your message to Ssa-managers awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <200410072137.i97LbDAr005521@mailman.eng.auburn.edu>

Your mail to 'Ssa-managers' with the subject

    Delivery reports about your e-mail

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 03:26:29 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:26:29 +0200
Subject: Executing python scripts
References: <d3502feb.0410212159.2f72d92b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gm1wel.1ges7191uvohktN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Shufen <s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Can someone please advice me on the differences between this:
> #!/usr/bin/env python and these: #!/usr/local/bin/python or
> #!/usr/bin/python?
> 
> I know the first one locates the Python interpreter according to my
> system searching path setting. But I read about an article that

Right.  The other two hardwire the location.  The first will not work on
an installation which only has Python in /usr/bin, and viceversa.

> mentioned that if we are running the scripts as a CGI from a Web
> server then we should use the latter one. Because I'm using python
> scripts as a CGI now and I'm currently using #!/usr/bin/env python
> this and it seems fine to me, so I would like to know if there is any
> difference.

As long as you control your PATH, and what gets installed where in
directories along your PATH, you should be fine.


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 03:52:02 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:52:02 +0200
Subject: [OT] New to Python: Features
References: <40E605146701DE428FAF21286A97D3091744C6@wphexa02.corp.lh.int>
	<4162B7FD.9080702@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4339.1096988358.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gla5gn.1xzj7sjnweyetN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Eugeni Doljenko <dolzenko at rsu.ru> wrote:

> >>You're kidding, right. Right ? Without brackets ? That's... that's just
> >>not possible is it ?
> > In certain languages it is.  I think Lua lets you do it but more certainly
> > I know Ruby does.
> I'd love language that will let me call functions with square brackets.
> square brackets are so sweet.

hmmm, closest I can come is...:

class MakeEugeniHappy(object):
    def __init__(self, f):
        self.f = f
    def __getitem__(self, args):
        if isinstance(args, tuple): return self.f(*args)
        else: return self.f(args)

@ MakeEugeniHappy
def f(x): return x*3+1

Now, 'print f[23]' emits 70.  No way to call functions without
arguments, and a bit of a mess to call one with an argument that's a
tuple (I decided f[1,2,3] had better map to the original f(1,2,3) -- so
to call the original f((1,2,3)) you need f[(1,2,3),] ...!-).  One way
around the "call without arguments" would be to check if
isinstance(args, slice) and specialcase slices with None for all
attributes, so f[:] would call the original f().

> seriously, Ruby is syntactical madness. 

Nah, it ain't too bad, even though the call-w/o-parentheses part is
indeed a substantial minus.


Alex


From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Oct  5 19:57:52 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:57:52 GMT
Subject: id() collisions on bound methods [was: metaclass and
	customization with parameters]
In-Reply-To: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F33@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <20041005235752.29723.1522463815.divmod.quotient.10124@ohm>

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:50:33 -0700, "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote:
> [snip]
> >>> f = Foo()
> >>> id(f.method0)
> 18569136
> >>> id(f.method1)
> 18536648
> >>> id(f.method2)
> 18536648
> >>> id(f.method0)
> 18536648
> 
> ...so the id() result is mutating somehow, even for the same object.
> This is true for both old- and new-style classes, by the way, and also
> holds for methods where you don't simply pass (I tried return 0,
> return1, and return 2, for example function bodies)

  id() is only guaranteed unique *for the lifetime of the object*.  As soon as the object ceases to exist, its id may appear as the id for any other object.

  In the above example, this makes a lot of sense if you understand a few things:

   1) instanceObj.methodAttr results in a *new* bound method object every time it is evaluated.

   2) The CPython id() implementation uses the value of the pointer to a PyObject.

   3) Objects of the same size/type allocates and de-allocated in rapid succession often have a fairly high chance of being allocated the same memory in CPython.

  Jp



From ville at spammers.com  Sat Oct 16 08:29:28 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 15:29:28 +0300
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.5038.1097927312.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7zn2malsn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Sparks <zathras at thwackety.com> writes:

    Michael> Being more specific though... It also frustrates me that
    Michael> I can write something I find useful and then cannot
    Michael> afford to pass it onto friends who use windows, even if
    Michael> there's no commercial value in it.

What we are seeing here is a horrible waste of coding - 95% of the
desktop world runs on Windows, and if a piece of software is unusable
for 95% of the potential userbase... that just sucks. Incentive to
change the OS mostly works for home users, it would have to be pretty
damn convincing to make a corporation with standardized desktop PCs to
make the switch.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From mwm at mired.org  Wed Oct 20 05:20:27 2004
From: mwm at mired.org (Mike Meyer)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:20:27 -0500
Subject: reverse Jython
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.5172.1098197357.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41759f7d$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <x7acuhvj8k.fsf@guru.mired.org>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> writes:
> Perhaps I am dreaming of a world that anything can be written in any
> programming language (even multiple languages in a same
> script... how many times we get questions like... Can Python do
> ____?) and run on any machines with similar efficiencies... But
> then, maybe reversing the Tower of Babel is impossible...

I thought we were already there. Every language I know of talks to C,
so you can glue multiple languages together with C. I once did a
project that had a single program that included FORTRAN, C, Python and
TCL code.

    <mike
-- 
Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 12:59:04 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:59:04 +0200
Subject: Processing a MySQL Dump file with Python
References: <20041004153125.07A1D1E400E@bag.python.org>
	<mailman.4256.1096908465.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl5bcc.1m1s2mbsbpcrxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Nico Grubert <nicogrubert at arcor.de> wrote:
   ...
> What I need to do is calling "mysql -h myhost.com -p -u myusername < 
> dumpfile" directly from python.
> How can I do this in python?

import os
os.system("mysql -h myhost.com -p -u myusername dumpfile")


Alex


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 16:16:33 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:16:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041023T221401-799@post.gmane.org>

drs <drs <at> remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com> writes:
> 
> Hi,  I am trying to find all lists of length x with elements a, b, and c.

I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for here.  It would help if you gave an
example of some input and the output you want to produce.

Seems you might be looking for the permutations of a list.  If so, check the
ASPN Cookbook:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/190465

If this is not what you're looking for, please give us a little more info on the
problem.

Steve



From andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de  Tue Oct  5 04:58:15 2004
From: andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de (Andreas Lobinger)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:58:15 +0200
Subject: stop executing
Message-ID: <cjtnn8$ht3$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Aloha,

i want to put a short script and additional data together in
an shellexecutable, like this

--begin-file--
#!/usr/bin/env python
import sys
print sys.argv
sys.exit()

other data following, strictly not in python syntax...
--end-file--

I would expect the interpreter to stop after the sys.exit, but of
course the parser tries to read on.
lobingera at scylla: b.py
   File "b.py", line 7
     other data
              ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

I have now a somehow working solution by putting the data in a
multiline string, but that raises the subquestion:
How much data can be put in a multiline string and how do i
escape the tripple-" ?

Hoping for an answer and wishing a happy day
		LOBI


From z at b.com  Fri Oct 22 15:31:46 2004
From: z at b.com (JZ)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:31:46 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <14z8615iqfuks$.1kac0lono3944.dlg@40tude.net>

Dnia Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:56:44 -0700, Cliff Wells napisa?(a):

> I've seen nothing in the Python world that compares to Smarty templates 

I am using Smarty and I know them very well, but compiled Cheetah Templates
(http://www.cheetahtemplates.org) with its inheritance approach 
is much powerfull and easier to use than Smarty. Cheetah can cache any
indyvidual placeholder or portions of template. Smarty caches only the
entire template output as a unit. Cheetah can be extended using inheritance
approach. Smarty can use only the containment aproach. Cheetah uses Python
with its all benefits. Smarty uses PHP with its messing function names, no
import idea, no namespaces idea, worse unicode library, no docstring, no
good free IDE/RAD editors etc.

-- 
JZ http://zabiello.om



From wl at flexis.de  Wed Oct  6 09:51:23 2004
From: wl at flexis.de (Wolfgang Langner)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 15:51:23 +0200
Subject: Embedding python with debugging features
In-Reply-To: <cjjurh$84t$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
References: <cjjurh$84t$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <ck0t8o$1d67$1@news.LF.net>

Hello Peter,


> I'm considering to embed python in an application written in c++ and use it
> as a scripting language.
> Is it possible to provide debugging features?

Yes. Look at boost python: http://www.boost.org
or           SWIG        : http://www.swig.org

To do something useful you need to write an extension module.
In this module you export some of your C++ Classes.

With boost python it is possible to debug extension modules
build against normal python and python_d (debug) version of python.

If you want debug into the python C API you must use the debug version of python.

bye by Wolfgang


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 18 17:24:36 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:24:36 GMT
Subject: relational email repository
References: <rrQcd.2905$lp6.2339@okepread01>
Message-ID: <417433ad.158493351@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:24:50 -0400, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>A while ago someone posted a reference to a relational architecture for 
>storing rfc2822-compliant emails, but I can't for the life of me find it 
>through Google. Anyone? Thanks a lot.
>
ISTM the right approach to quoted material in a relational db could result
in a significant space saving for archives of threaded stuff such as here.
Is that part of existing implementations?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From P at draigBrady.com  Wed Oct  6 06:38:54 2004
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:38:54 +0100
Subject: GUI to browse and select images
In-Reply-To: <1096715845.204540.281600@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
References: <1096715845.204540.281600@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4163CB3E.1090307@draigBrady.com>

ktenney at gmail.com wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> I've written some code which manipulates images,
> now I want an interface for choosing images.

I spent 10 mins creating this app (in pygtk)
which emulates the gqview interface:
http://www.pixelbeat.org/talks/pygtk/examples/pyview/

P?draig.


From davecook at nowhere.net  Tue Oct 26 20:13:35 2004
From: davecook at nowhere.net (Dave Cook)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:13:35 GMT
Subject: Reading XML like Python!
References: <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncntq1h.2m0.davecook@localhost.localdomain>

In article <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534 at posting.google.com>, John wrote:

> I have to read a lot of XML for my upcoming project.
> XML is hard on my eyes.
> Is there some sort of converter that converts XML to something more
> eye friendly? maybe like Python? I have seen restructured text. There
> is a paper at EuroPython 2004 that seems to do something similar.
> 
> "Pythonic Alternatives for declarative XML-based specifications of
> robot behavior"
> 
> Anyone know of any tools along these lines?

Check out xmlobject:

http://xmlobject.base-art.net/

Dave Cook


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 13:56:35 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:56:35 -0700
Subject: Program help (beginner)
In-Reply-To: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19BCA@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>
References: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19BCA@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>
Message-ID: <1097690195.12092.224.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 12:35 -0500, Borman, Linda E wrote:

> Program using a function and using "if, elif, else" 

This sounds suspiciously like a homework assignment.  Nevertheless, I
will provide a solution under one condition: never, ever post horrible,
giant green HTML to this or any other public list again.


def check_direction(direction):
    direction = direction.lower()
    if direction in ['north', 'south', 'east', 'west']:
        print 'You chose %s' % direction
        return direction
    else:
        print "You do not know where you want to go, huh!"
        return None
    
def location_description(direction):
    results = {
        'north': 'You must want to be cold',
        'south': 'You must want to be hot',
        'east':  'You must want to be where there might be rain',
        'west':  'You must want to be where there might be fog',
        }
    return results[direction]
 
   
print "\nPlease enter the destination of the area you would like to travel to." 
direction = raw_input("\nChoose North, South, West or East: ")

direction = check_direction(direction)
if not direction:
    raise SystemExit
 
raw_input("\n\nPlease hit enter to find out what to expect.")
print "\nHere are your results: %s\n" % location_description(direction)

raw_input ("Press the enter key to exit.")



-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From COrtaRN at aol.com  Sun Oct 10 10:20:17 2004
From: COrtaRN at aol.com (COrtaRN at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:20:17 EDT
Subject: please read!
Message-ID: <1f6.920a36.2e9a9f21@aol.com>

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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 05:08:36 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:08:36 +0200
Subject: re bug
References: <3e96ebd7.0410050057.29a15174@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gl6k0y.193hunzp84vguN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Klaus Neuner <klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de> wrote:
   ...
> Is there perhaps a way to tell Python something like 
> 
> "Try the search for 5 minutes. If you don't find anything, continue."

You could spawn a watchdog thread that will raise an exception in the
main thread 300 seconds from now (unless previously annulled).  If that
doesn't work (because the main thread is deep into some operation which
doesn't let it see exceptions) you could spawn a separate process for
the job and kill that process if it hasn't emitted results within 300
seconds.  Not _good_ solutions but maybe better than nothing...


Alex
 


From junkmail at chipworks.net  Thu Oct  7 09:16:46 2004
From: junkmail at chipworks.net (Mike Monaghan)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 06:16:46 -0700
Subject: MAPI Server...
References: <ab19b1e4.0410061718.6a7df4b5@posting.google.com>
	<J129d.2489$Ua.454@trndny01>
Message-ID: <ab19b1e4.0410070516.5472097a@posting.google.com>

Ross,

Reading my post again I was as clear as mud.

I'm looking to emulate the MAPI Server (Outlook Express in this case).
 I want the application to be seen as the system's MAPI server so the
voicemail system will pass its data directly to the Python program. 
The voicemail system acts as the MAPI Client and I have no control
over it.

Thanks,

Mike


ross lazarus <ross.lazarus.does.not.read.or.eat.spam at channing.harvard.edu> wrote in message news:<J129d.2489$Ua.454 at trndny01>...
> Google is often a wonderful friend of first recourse in these 
> situations. The first result for
> python mapi
> is
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/149461
> which just might give you a start.
>


From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Fri Oct  1 04:54:47 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:54:47 +0200
Subject: Python /etc/shadow
References: <831f3acd.0409280307.6083219a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <415d1b57$0$7747$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

shakeeb wrote:

> hi
> i am pretty new to python .i was wondering whether  there is any
> module so that i could authenticate against /etc/shadow file i tried
> pwd it only checks the /etc/passwd file
> Any help will be appreciated
> shakeeb
There is a package called python-pam in Debian. I don't know if it is what
you want but it looks like it ( PAM : Pluggable Authentication Modules ).


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 14 22:07:52 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:07:52 GMT
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<10mt60mhr42rl09@corp.supernews.com>
	<x7sm8hugjz.fsf@guru.mired.org>
	<10mu6uje93pk152@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <416f29c3.285069358@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:37:39 -0000, mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs) wrote:

>Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
>> mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs) writes:
>>> I had once given serious thought to what it would take to write an OS 
>>> only in a high-level language. (Standard ML was my language of choice
>>> at the time.) The short answer is, no, it can't be done with Python as
>>> it currently stands. 
>> But it can be done. It *has* been done.
>> [snip]
>> Actually, you don't need those modifications to Python. What you need
>> is a module written in something other than Python that lets you do
>> all those things.
>
>Sorry, I should have emphasized the word *only*. I'm talking about writing
>an OS *only* with Python. No C, no assembly, just Python. Writing an OS 
>without assembly would be impossible unless the compiler can somehow map
>required processor opcodes to a function or statement in the higher-level
>language. Python does not currently have a proper compiler, much less
>functions or statements that would, say, put the processor into protected
>mode.
>
OTOH, it's a bootstrapping process. You can start by putting together
a python string that contains an image of the boot block on a bootable floppy,
and with suitable permissions you can write it to an actual floppy.

Next you can create a python string that is the image of a boot loader, that
the boot block will know where to find and read into memory using BIOS, if you
put it in a certain place on the floppy. And then you can get the loader to load
your OS image, which is a big bunch of bytes. You might want to structure the floppy
info for access as a primitive (non-patent-infringing ;-/) file system.
Maybe you will want to do a bootable CD instead ;-)

Anyway, CPU instructions are just bytes. As a start, it might be interesting to try to build
a dll extension in an mmap array and import it (be prepared for lots of crashes ;-).

Obviously mmap etc depend on the OS, but if you had prepared a suitable bootable OS
with a primitive file system and mmap functionality, and a userland python VM, ... well,
it's involved, but you can get there. I'd bet pypy will eventually be at the center of
something like that, with maybe a monolithic boot image in flash, and BIOS to boot it.
At some point, on a suitable platform, it will be able to self-host its own development, I'd bet.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Fri Oct 22 11:38:28 2004
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:38:28 -0400
Subject: Python and generic programming
In-Reply-To: <2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <WP9ed.3$9o.2@fe61.usenetserver.com>

Oliver Fromme wrote:
> Type checking at compile time does _not_ necessarily require
> static typing.
> 
> For a counter example, look at O'Caml.  It is a dynamically
> typed functional language (using type inference, pattern
> matchingetc.) with compile-time type checking.

OCaml is statically typed.  This from http://caml.inria.fr/ercim.html:

"""Abstract:  Objective Caml is a general purpose programming language 
that combines functional, imperative, and object-oriented programming. 
The language is statically typed; its type system ensures the correct 
evaluation of programs. Types are automatically inferred. The language 
offers powerful constructions such as user-definable data-types, the 
ability to define functions by pattern-matching, and an exception 
mechanism. Programming in the large is facilitated by a full-fledge 
class-based object-oriented layer and an expressive module system."""

--Hans



From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Thu Oct 14 22:55:28 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:55:28 -0400
Subject: Completely INNOCENT Indentation question
References: <1b347673.0410130532.63199a4a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4846.1097675256.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1b347673.0410131928.750bcde7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <opsfv42qrk1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

Actually, it should be trivial.

1.  Set the preferance in your editor
2.  Write a preprocessor (in python) that you supply with your program as  
a command-line argument

Your preprocessor de-dents the code.  Tracebacks will still be meaningful,  
because you are not changing line numbering.  BTW, The code-folding in ViM  
can be set to correspond to indent-level, which means you can fold and  
unfold all constructs to a specific depth.  Magic.

Python makes me very lazy.  Writing a report in LaTeX today, it was  
actually easier for me to make up a syntax for tagging math symbols (put  
into comments in the LaTeX source), and extract those and build a List Of  
Symbols with a python preprocessor before texification,  rather than find  
(and figure out how to use) the correct LaTeX package for that.  More  
magic.



On 13 Oct 2004 20:28:00 -0700, valued customer <scooterm at hotmail.com>  
wrote:

>> > Is there a way in python to indicate that you want your
>> > "base level of indentation" to be four spaces instead of
>> > zero?
>
>> I don't think so.  Just out of curiosity, why would you want to do that?
>
> The question was just to make sure I hadn't overlooked some
> feature or setting of the programming language that would enable
> what I had asked about (short of introducing any of the various
> language constructs that we all can imagine and you need not
> elaborate here).
>
> As far as 'why would anyone want to do that' one reason that
> never fails is *personal preference* ... there probably isn't
> a stylistic or programming practice in existence that can't be
> explained at least partially by that. Therefore if someone asks,
> there must be at least *that* reason.
>
> For those who are not satisfied with that kind of answer, here
> is an example:
>
> Suppose you are editing source code in such a way
> that you only want *comments* to be flush left, and the rest of
> the code to be indented.
>
> (but Why would you want do that?)
>
> Because you work with a text editor that shows an 'outline'
> of your code based on the indentation, and you want the outline
> structure to be reflected in the comments.
>
> ### documentation
>     """ This is a python script that does some stuff.
>     Not only does it do stuff, it's documented stuff.
>     """
> ### initialize python
>     import foo
>     import bar
>
> ### do some stuff
>     print foo.frobilize()
>
> ### do some other stuff
>     print bar.babelize()
>
> ### end of python
>
>
> Yes the question may remain ... why would anyone wanna do
> that? Well, there are reasons. Whatever the justifications
> may be, the 'additional language statements' workaround will
> apparently have to suffice.
>
> Thanks for the input though.



From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Oct 11 11:48:27 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:48:27 -0700
Subject: Using tuples correctly?
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F60@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

BJ?rn Lindqvist wrote:
> > > So you could write stuff like this:
> > >
> > > return (r: 10, g: 20, b: 30) or maybe return (.r 10, .g 20, .b 30)
> > 
> Robert Brewer:
> > 
> > color = RGB(10, 20, 30)
> > print "The red value is: ", color.red
> > 
> > If you *must* have a tuple to throw around, give your class 
> a 'tuple' method:
> > 
> > class RGB(object):
> >     def __init__(self, r=0, g=0, b=0):
> >         self.red = r
> >         self.green = g
> >         self.blue = b
> > 
> >     def tuple(self):
> >         return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
> > 
> > Why bother to shoehorn all of the name scaffolding into 
> tuples when it's already present in classes?
> 
> Because you have to declare classes before you can instantiate them.
> If you wanted a RGB tuple, would you really create a class for it? If
> you wanted a 2d point? I guess tuples aren't really needed in python,
> you can always get by by creating objects when you would have used
> types. However, creating a class when all you want is a C-like struct
> leads to alot of tedious and unnecessary work.
> 
> In my thinking, this:
> 
> return (r: 10, g: 20, b: 30)
> 
> would be read more as "create and return an anonymous object with
> three attributes r, g, b set to 10, 20, 30".

I have a feeling you also expect three *ordered* attributes; otherwise you could just say:

return {'r': 10, 'g': 20, 'b': 30}

or

return dict(r=10, g=20, b=30)

One of the problems with an imaginary anonymous tuple (as opposed to a class) is that it's truly anonymous: there's nothing about the tuple that indicates what r, g, and b are, nor anything which indicates what the tuple as a whole is, and in fact, no way to do so except bare #comments in the code. A class collects the semantics of your data and its attributes and behaviors into a single place, forcing you to make it more readable and more accessible to those who follow you (even if that's you-in-5-years).


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From caleb1 at telkomsa.net  Thu Oct 14 22:43:53 2004
From: caleb1 at telkomsa.net (Caleb Hattingh)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:43:53 -0400
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4936.1097758440.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <opsfv4jfe71js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>

That's a very sarcastic reply.

The question, really, is what the effect would be of writing an OS in a  
HLL (particularly on speed of development, bug-fixes, and feature  
addition).

I think that is worth asking.

Granted, as a minimum Python would need to compile to native machine code  
(or interface with a really detailed native virtual machine) but I expect  
(hope!) that is going to get done anyway.


On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:53:54 -0400, Neal D. Becker <ndbecker2 at verizon.net>  
wrote:

> Maboroshi wrote:
>
>> Hello
>>
>> My question has to do with python and linux - I was interested in
>> finding out what it would take to reimplement the Linux Kernel in python
>> basically just taking the source code from linux and rewriting it in
>> python Would this idea make sense to do - if so what would be the
>> benefits of doing this and in what way would this not be a good idea
>>
>> Cheers
>
> Yeah, that's a great idea.  Go for it.  Let me know when you're done.
>
>



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Oct  9 11:06:33 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:06:33 -0500
Subject: Algorithm used by keyword 'in'
References: <lYS9d.144800$Kt5.79976@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <10mfvjtsb0vpk3f@news.supernews.com>


"Derek Rhodes" <rhoder at worldpath.net> wrote in message 
news:lYS9d.144800$Kt5.79976 at twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> #using python 2.4a3
>
> say there is a list:
>
> list = range(10000)
>
> Now randomize it.
>
> Next, command the interpreter:
>
>>>>  465 in list
> True
>>>>
>
> What algorithm is used here?

"in" asks the object to determine if the
operand is in the object. Since this is
a list, it's probably using a sequential
search. If it was a dictionary, it would
use a keyword lookup, as you would
expect. For any other object, it will
do whatever that object wants.

John Roth
>
>
> -Derek.
>
> 



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Oct 29 14:11:49 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:11:49 -0400
Subject: Looking for more Cookbook contributors
References: <0kavn019dk6vf7ini32t3muc9e6r9j7t1n@4ax.com>	<mailman.5575.1098897039.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gmdbxx.o57i68hu9achN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.5641.1099011631.5135.python-list@python.org>	<D3kgd.10428$KJ6.3501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net><mailman.5648.1099041856.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6f402501.0410290730.6704e38@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <clu14u$are$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Michael Foord" <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:6f402501.0410290730.6704e38 at posting.google.com...

> I'm taking this even more OT... my biggest source of junk mail is
> virus warnings sent automatically as responses to virus emails with
> forged from addresses. Its *really* annoying.....

Especially when the forged 'from:' is the Python mailing list...  Yes, very 
annoying.

TJR






From psparago at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 08:21:30 2004
From: psparago at yahoo.com (Peter Sparago)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 05:21:30 -0700
Subject: MakeActiveXClass and MSHTML - 2 problems...
References: <584da15e.0410051513.60b77760@posting.google.com>
	<584da15e.0410061511.2f828552@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <584da15e.0410070421.58cccb01@posting.google.com>

Duh!

I figured out the answer to the SECOND question. I still have a
question on how to set focus to the MSHTML editor control. Help would
be greatly appreciated.

I have yet another question. This time about makegw. Once you generate
the C++ interfaces and/or gateways, what do you do with them :-)??

C'mon Python COM gurus! Help! :-)

psparago at yahoo.com (Peter Sparago) wrote in message news:<584da15e.0410061511.2f828552 at posting.google.com>...
> I figured out the answer to the first question. For anyone interested,
> in order to perform the QueryInterface call, you must make the call on
> the embedded "OLE" (COM) object of the ActiveXControl like so:
> 
> persist = self.editor._oleobj_.QueryInterface(pythoncom.IID_IPersistFile)
> persist.Load(url)
> 
> I still need help with the second issue. Anyone?
> 
> psparago at yahoo.com (Peter Sparago) wrote in message news:<584da15e.0410051513.60b77760 at posting.google.com>...
> > I have been mostly successful in embedding the Microsoft MSHTML editor
> > in a python application. However, there are two issues that are
> > driving me bananas.
> > 
> > Issue 1:
> > I can't set focus to the editor control. Since the ActiveX wrapper
> > extends wx.Window, if I do something like:
> > 
> > self.editor.SetFocus
> > 
> > it returns false. Has anyone been able to programmatically set focus
> > to the MSHTML editor control?
> > 
> > Issue 2:
> > I want to be able to query the IHTMLDocument object (interface) that
> > MakeActiveXClass generates for the ICustomDoc interface (in order to
> > take control of the right-click context menu). However, QueryInterface
> > is NOT supported by the IHTMLDocument object (I did a dir(self.editor)
> > to prove it - no QueryInterface). Has anyone queried the ActiveX
> > object for another interface it implements?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > peter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct  9 13:40:08 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 10:40:08 -0700
Subject: Scope actions
In-Reply-To: <4167fa34$0$22761$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
References: <4167fa34$0$22761$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20041009103409.EDAA.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

 
> I often write small classes in C++ the use the side effects of scope. 
> For example a CAutoLock class that locks a mutex in the constructor and 
> releases it in the destructor. Is this something that is easily 
> accomplished in Python? I'm guessing that using __init__ and __del__ 
> would be roughly equivalent to this. But can can I be sure - with 
> garbage collection - that __del__ is called immediately at the point of 
> going out of scope?

From what I have come to experience, adding a __del__ method is an
almost sure way of guaranteeing that the object will never be garbage
collected.  This may not be the case in general, but every thing I've
tried to use it on has resulted in a memory leak; an infinitely growing
gc.garbage .

If you must do that kind of thing, play a bit with weakref objects.  You
can make them work the way you want them to.


> Alternatively, should I give up this little idiom and use try / finally?

I would make that suggestion.  It isn't so bad to:

class foo:
    def __init__(self):
        self.lock = threading.Lock()
    def accessor(self):
        try:
            self.lock.acquire()
            #do work here
        finally:
            self.lock.release()


 - Josiah



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Oct 25 07:31:07 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 11:31:07 GMT
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-function
	o verloading.
References: <mailman.5414.1098701076.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns958D7ED7A1A87duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Doran_Dermot at emc.com wrote:

> Am I correct in stating that Python does not support function
> overloading? Have I been hiding under a rock and not noticed the
> thousands of examples that illustrate this approach?
> 

Have you considered writing your example this way:

class Problems:
  def __init__( self, refNum ):
    self._refNum = refNum
    self.Title = ""
    self.Problem = ""

Now you can write your code as:

theProblem = Problems( "12345" )

print "Title: ", theProblem.Title
print "Problem: ", theProblem.Problem

theProblem.Title = "Java affecting adoption of Python."
theProblem.Problem = '''Developers are more inclined to use Java instead of
Python due to the fact that Java is seen as a defacto standard.'''

This is much clearer than wrapping your attributes up in accessor and 
mutator functions and doesn't lose you *anything*. If your code ever 
evolves to the point where you need to intercept the attribute access or 
mutation then you simply change the affected attributes into properties, 
but there is no need to make them properties until this happens.

Python does support function overloading (if you care to write a library 
that implements it), but in general it isn't needed. Some languages use 
overloading primarily as a means of specifying default arguments (in fact 
that is all you did in your example) and Python already has default 
arguments. Alternatively you might use overloading to allow different types 
to be passed to a function, but Python will already let you do this. If the 
function implementations are significantly different then it may mean that 
overloading isn't appropriate anyway. If the function implementations are 
largely the same then you may be able to share the definition in Python, 
possibly with a line or two to sort out the argument types.

It can often be clearer to use different names for functions instead of 
overloading them as the names can be used to hint at the type of argument 
expected. Doing it this way also means that you can 'overload' on semantics 
rather than just the type.

For example consider the function buildFrobozz(x) which I want to overload 
to accept either a string or a filename. Oops! I can't use overloaded 
functions for that, I have to call my methods buildFrobozzFromString(s) and 
buildFrobozzFromFilename(fname). Now I add another function that builds a 
frobozz from an open file. Calling it buildFrobozzFromFile(f) doesn't seem 
to me to be losing anything.

(Actually, I would probably make all of those class methods of the Frobozz 
class and call them fromString, fromFilename, fromFile for a bit more 
brevity.)



From __NOSPAM at rogers.com__NOSPAM__  Sun Oct  3 21:13:26 2004
From: __NOSPAM at rogers.com__NOSPAM__ (Martin)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:13:26 -0400
Subject: Embedding Python
In-Reply-To: <UqSdneKmuZGqBP3cRVn-iw@rogers.com>
References: <4audnXFO7feC3MPcRVn-vg@rogers.com>
	<10ltp863omma41d@corp.supernews.com>
	<UqSdneKmuZGqBP3cRVn-iw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <75GdnTzRUYgzPv3cRVn-rw@rogers.com>

Martin wrote:

> Dmitry Borisov wrote:
> 
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> I am new to python and wish to embed python in an 3D graphics
>>> application to provide application automation. The high level goal is to
>>> be able to drive my app from a script for batch job like behavior rather
>>
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> Martin,
>> I would recommend looking at nebula device for that. Their 3D engine
>> supports couple of different languages like Tcl/Tk, Lua and Python.
>> http://www.radonlabs.de/
>> Have fun,
>> Dmitry/
>>
>>
> Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, the application I am working 
> on is is quite mature in its life-cycle and overhauling the core library 
> is not an alternative.
> 
> My question really boils down to:
> 
>   Can someone point me to a (minimal) example showing strategies for 
> application automation using Python. If the example involves a QT app 
> that would be a plus.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Martin

OOps ... I didn't realize that the nebula device sources were also 
available for perusal. I'll take a look at them. Hopefully this will help.

Thanks,

Martin


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 21:54:36 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:54:36 -0300
Subject: types.UnboundMethodType is types.MethodType
Message-ID: <864d370904100618546abfd535@mail.gmail.com>

Just curious. I was trying to test for a class method in some code of
mine, and stumbled on a few things that I really could not understand:

# C is a class, m is a class method
>>> c.m
<bound method C.m of <__main__.C instance at 0x0120E350>>
>>> isinstance(c.m, types.UnboundMethodType)
True
# C is a class, cm is a class method
>>> C.cm
<bound method classobj.cm of <class __main__.C at 0x0120D870>>
>>> isinstance(C.cx, types.UnboundMethodType)
True
>>> types.UnboundMethodType is types.MethodType
True
>>> types.UnboundMethodType, types.MethodType
(<type 'instancemethod'>, <type 'instancemethod'>)
>>> id(types.UnboundMethodType), id(types.MethodType)
(504034256, 504034256)

I don't get it. Why to have two different identifiers that are in fact the same?

BTW - That's my Python version:
>>> sys.version
'2.3.2 (#49, Nov 13 2003, 10:34:54) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]'
-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 22 23:53:18 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:53:18 -0700
Subject: Email attachments
In-Reply-To: <20041022231314.29660.00006345@mb-m16.aol.com>
References: <mailman.5344.1098481090.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<20041022231314.29660.00006345@mb-m16.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20041022203215.0AEF.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited) wrote:
> Thanks, I looked into TOP and it looks like I'll be able to handle that issue
> satisfactorily with at least one, maybe many, but not all servers.

Perhaps you missed the later part of my post when I explained that the
location of attachments can be arbitrary.  That is, attached files can
come before what most people consider to be the body of the email (text
like what you are reading now).  At best, using TOP is a 95% solution. 
The 100% solution is to just download the email and call it good.

If you merely care whether there is an attachment or not, deciding based
on the size of an email (the sizes returned by LIST) can be reasonable.


> POP3 is not looking good to me now, but with Yahoo what can you do....

Well, with Yahoo, you can only access them via POP3 if you have paid for
their services.

Really, mail access comes down to the simple maildrop approach that is
all client-side (POP3), or the complicated server handles everything
approach (IMAP4).

With a simple approach comes a simple protocol.  POP3 servers and
clients can be implemented in an afternoon, and I have done so a few
times (it is what I get paid to do).

The IMAP4 spec is huge, and allows asynchronous command processing (the
server can reply to command B before command A when command A was given
first), which complicates matters.  Having written partial IMAP4 servers
and clients, I will tell you that it is not really approachable in
anything less than a weekend.

I believe that the reason why very few large webmail providers offer
IMAP4 access is due to the protocol being very difficult to get right,
and because POP3 does most of what is necessary.


In my opinion, what is really needed is a protocol that sits between
POP3 and IMAP4.  POP3 with folder support and a few other little pieces
would be sufficient to implement all the protocol necessary for a
full-on webmail service with the features of both Gmail and Yahoo Mail. 
Unfortunately, the liklihood of this happening and becoming widespread
is very low; both the POP3 and IMAP4 RFCs have been around for quite a
while, and many among the email community believe that they are
sufficient.

Ah well...
 - Josiah



From theller at python.net  Wed Oct 13 16:24:02 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:24:02 +0200
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net> <ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4866.1097680786.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zUcbd.32564$3C6.1308279@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4875.1097688444.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Arebd.33298$3C6.1330114@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<4qky5s8r.fsf@python.net>
	<lOfbd.33435$3C6.1350545@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <llea4ba5.fsf@python.net>

Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> writes:

> Thomas Heller wrote:
>> In this case, you could also look at the ctypes module, it implements C
>> compatible structures and unions.
>> And for your original question: why do you insist on your new syntax,
>> why don't you simply (as ctypes also does it) define the attributes in a
>> list, when they have to have a certain order?
>
> I just looked at ctypes, and yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.  I
> want the structures definitions to be modified by C++ programmers and
> I find the metaclass mechanism much more readable and easy to modify
> (and it's not a lot of code to make everything work).  I agree
> everything can be done using normal Python code, but my goal here is
> really to make a pseudo-language to define our formats, and the
> pseudo-language is just a simpler solution than XML in my specific
> case.  Probably all cases of such using of metaclasses are like
> that...


FWIW, I have a parser(code generator (using gccxml as frontend). This
toolchain creates ctypes' compatible structure definitions from C header
files.

Thomas


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct 25 14:26:45 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:26:45 -0700
Subject: 2 questions about scope
In-Reply-To: <slrncnq5fr.dam.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
References: <slrncnq5fr.dam.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <20041025105736.0B0D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> wrote:
> 
> I am relatively new to python, but i know some other languages, such as C++,
> fairly well.
> After reading up a little bit in the reference manual, section 4.1,
> and searching this NG, i still have 2 questions about python's scoping
> rules.
> 
> 1. Exactly what are the major differences between python's and C++ scoping
>    rules?

Most of the differences you will never run into.  Here are two that may
effect you in time.

>>> a = 1
>>> def f():
...     b = 2
...     def g():
...         c = 3
...         def h():
...             d = 4
...             print a,b,c,d
...         h()
...     g()
...
>>> f()
1 2 3 4

>>> a = 1
>>> def f():
...     b = 2
...     def g():
...         global a,b
...         a = 2
...         b = 3
...     g()
...     print a, b
...
>>> f()
2 2
>>>
>>> b
3

Generally, you always have read-only access to parent-level scopes, but
if you want write-access to non-global parent scopes, you are out of
luck unless you use object attributes.

>>> class a:
...     pass
...
>>> def f():
...     data = a()
...     data.sub = 1
...     def g():
...         data.sub = 2
...     g()
...     print data.sub
...
>>> f()
2


> 2. Why is it that 'while', 'for', etc., don't introduce a new block?
>    (so that variables bound inside those blocks would be local to those
>    blocks only?)

Last time I checked, C++ didn't introduce new scopes for for and while
loops.  I would imagine Python doesn't introduce new scopes for three
reasons: it is easier not to, not doing so simplifies some algorithms
(name munging can address the "but I wanted that variable" complaints)
and "Flat is better than nested".

 - Josiah



From uche at ogbuji.net  Fri Oct  8 14:40:22 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 11:40:22 -0700
Subject: XSL transform with Python
References: <33a013af.0410060646.3a821dc7@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4456.1097101225.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0410081040.393a0c75@posting.google.com>

"Brad Clements" <bkc at Murkworks.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4456.1097101225.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> "Vegard Bakke" <vegard at mail.com> wrote in message
> news:33a013af.0410060646.3a821dc7 at posting.google.com...
> > Hi!
> >
> > All I want to do is transforming an XML into another XML using an XSLT
> > stylesheet.
> >
> > >From what I have found on the web/usenet there are several xml/xsl
> > libraries/wrapper, all in various stages of alpha/beta/stalled
> > releases. (Sablotron, Sab-pyth, PySablot, libxml2, libxslt are some of
> > those I found.)
> >
> > The script will be running in a production environment and must
> > therefore be stable above all. Alphas and Betas are not that welcome.
> >
> > Can anyone give me a pointer to what module to use, what is stable,
> > and what is and be stay standard for Python?
> >
> 
> 
> I use libxml2 and libxslt in production.
> 
> Simple code like this:
> 
>     stylesheetArgs = {}    # optional transform args
>     styleDoc = libxml2.parseDoc(docText)  # <xml ...xsl:stylesheet >
>     style = libxslt.parseStylesheetDoc(styleDoc)
> 
>     doc = libxml2.parseDoc(srcXML)    # <xml input file>
>     result = style.applyStylesheet(doc,stylesheetArgs)
>     res = style.saveResultToString(result)
>     style.freeStylesheet()
>     doc.freeDoc()
>     result.freeDoc()
>     return res
> 
> It's plenty fast, and you can re-use compiled stylesheets (that's not
> demonstrated above)

You can easily do the same with 4XSLT.

-- 
Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
 
A hands-on introduction to ISO Schematron -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-xschematron-i.html
Wrestling HTML (using Python) -
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html
Enterprise data goes high fashion -
http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=10061
Principles of XML design: Considering container elements -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-contain.html
Hacking XML Hacks - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think26.html
A survey of XML standards -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stand4/


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Thu Oct 28 16:08:04 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:08:04 -0000
Subject: Data::Dumper for Python
References: <opsgkj8cih074qab@news.singnet.com.sg>
	<slrnco2d8k.kgh.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<pan.2004.10.28.21.36.02.724653@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <slrnco2kd0.kgh.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <pan.2004.10.28.21.36.02.724653 at jerf.org>, Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:06:12 +0000, Dave Benjamin wrote:
> 
>> Take a look at the "pprint" module. Also, it's worth noting that the Python
>> interpreter prints representations of data structures all the time, no
>> library required:
> 
> However, Python tries ***much*** less hard to make those representations
> actually evaluate back to equivalent objects. Based on my experiences but
> with no particular knowledge of the history of the two languages in this
> regard, this is because Python makes many manipulations easy that are hard
> to borderline impossible in Perl, and it is much harder to create such
> representations in general.
> 
> As a result, repr of any but the most base classes is often used more
> for "debugging style" info, and str for a simple identification. It is not
> safe in general to eval(repr(obj)) and expect anything but a Syntax Error.
> 
> Python shuffles that task off to the Pickle module, which is what you'd
> want to look up in the docs. That splits human representation off from
> computer-reproducable representation, and I believe overall this is
> superior; the two are not the same. In addition, we then get the Pickle
> protocol extensions which are frequently quite handy, especially when
> dealing with weakrefs.

Very good points. My experience with Data::Dumper in Perl has only been with
debugging/pretty-printing; I've never used it as a serialization technique.
If you are the author of all of the classes in your data representation, you
could (in theory) design it such that eval(repr(obj)) always evaluates to
obj, but Pickle is more likely what you want anyway.

-- 
 .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
        "talking about music is like dancing about architecture."


From maxm at mxm.dk  Sat Oct 30 16:00:16 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:00:16 +0200
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4183f2b0$0$209$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Michael Hoffman wrote:

> I'll believe the performance benefits when I see them. The Parrot people 
> promised they would be faster by OSCON 2004 or Guido would get to pie 
> Dan Sugalski in the face. If you don't already know what happened, you 
> can see a picture here:

I just wonder what the difference is between .net, Mono and Parrot?

To me they all seem to pretty similar goals.


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From jeffrey at fro.man  Sun Oct 17 10:21:56 2004
From: jeffrey at fro.man (Jeffrey Froman)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:21:56 -0700
Subject: List Flatten
References: <5c882bb5.0410161531.41713754@posting.google.com>
	<ckteik$sg7$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <10n500532adhd22@corp.supernews.com>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Generators may also save you a lot of memory for very large data
> structures as you can iterate over a flat view of your nested lists
> without ever having to create the large flat list.

Particularly if you avoid building the interim "stack" list, by making use
of recursion:

def deep_iter(nested):
    for x in nested:
        if isinstance(x, (list, tuple)):
            for y in deep_iter(x):
                yield y
        else:
            yield x


The example above should work to flatten nested lists or tuples.

Jeffrey


From matt at pollenation.net  Tue Oct 26 09:05:22 2004
From: matt at pollenation.net (Matt Goodall)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:05:22 +0100
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <417e41b3$0$221$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Qd6dnUTV2ZBkBefcRVn-pg@giganews.com>
	<1gm4rq5.1c25kfc12o6jivN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417cb790$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<slrncnq86k.os.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
	<1gm8d6x.hvrljyulw27dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417e41b3$0$221$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <1098795922.31804.68.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:27 +0200, Max M wrote:

[...]

> I don't have anything bad to say about nevow, as I don't know it ;-) But 
> I have tried many page layout systems where complex layout in complex 
> layout is the problem.

I'm not sure it's been said explicitly (I should really read the whole
thread ;-)) but Nevow *embraces* the fact that the HTML sometimes needs
to be generated from code. See the nevow.stan and nevow.tags modules for
proof.

I've had a couple of occasions where my disk templates have got to the
point of being unmaintainable. Mostly, it's been trying to layout
reasonably complex, dynamically sized tabular data with col and row
spans (ick!). I moved the HTML generation into a Python module using
stan tags and the code is now readable and shorter. Personally, this is
something I try to avoid but Nevow does support it when necessary.

Note that it's very easy to create tag libraries with Nevow. That keeps
the bulk of the HTML generation in a sane place and leaves render
methods as just glue between the page and the code.

Cheers, Matt

-- 
Matt Goodall, Pollenation Internet Ltd
w: http://www.pollenation.net
e: matt at pollenation.net
t: +44 (0)113 2252500



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Oct 20 22:53:04 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:53:04 +1300
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <0lndd.1925$KJ6.830@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5153.1098150302.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1098194866.552318.234710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5183.1098208117.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glxbjm.3z1g3hhxomoxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Wwfdd.1635$%h1.697@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mntbn01dpfi3h456dkb90t3kqlnom14m0e@4ax.com>
	<0lndd.1925$KJ6.830@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2tomkhF22ksv0U2@uni-berlin.de>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
> I didn't know what was going on at a certain
> spot, looked up a few lines, and saw the comment I had
> written explaining the tricky spot.  I thought it was
> very nice of the past me to help out then present me.  :)

Indeed. It would be nice to have access to a time machine
so one could go back and ask oneself about things like
this...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From dw at botanicus.net  Thu Oct 21 16:39:41 2004
From: dw at botanicus.net (David Wilson)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:39:41 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, K.I.S.S. entry.
In-Reply-To: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <20041021203941.GA81142@thailand.botanicus.net>

Greetings Python-List,

    http://botanicus.net/dw/tmp/ConfigParser2/ConfigParser.py


The above implementation of 'ConfigParser2' takes a radically different
approach to that of the good Mr. Chermside's entry, or any of the
so-called proposed 'enhancements' to ConfigParser. It does this by
*removing* features which I believe do not belong in ConfigParser, and
repairing the existing class interface.

Please let me know what you think, CC: me if possible. This module,
although unused (and only an hour or three old), will probably live in
my personal toolkit from now on. Its interface is superior to that of
ConfigParser's in many ways, despite being less than 51% of the size of
it's predecessor:


Uses scaleable, built-in functionality where applicable:

    - Exceptions. Don't be afraid of the built-in exceptions. Don't even
      bother to raise them if you don't need to. Any Python programmer
      worth his salt will know exactly what a KeyError means, regardless
      of context.

    - Type factories. Why provide helper methods for type conversion at
      all? That method does not scale very well, and could possibly
      break more easily with newer Python versions. In fact, it is
      pointless.

    - Use iterators. Everyone knows that Python 2.4 comes with generator
      expressions. There has been talk for a long time of having
      co-routines and such things in the core language. Perhaps it will
      never happens, but one thing is for sure: iterables are in
      fashion.

      This module uses iterables where appropriate, to save memory, to
      save copies, and to save lines of code. Certain operations may
      seem strange to you. For example,

        items = conf.items('some section')

      'items' contains an iterator, not the list of items that you might
      expect. Be explicit in what you are asking for:

        items = list(conf.items('some section'))

      Perhaps you don't need the list after-all:

        for key, value in conf.items('some section'):
            ...

      Would you like a dictionary? Swap 'list' for 'dict' above. It is
      all very simple, which is the point. :)


    - Method names sound more like their built-in type counterparts, for
      example, append(), set(), get(), pop(), has_key(), etc.


    - Uses unicode throughout when loading and saving configuration
      files, although awareness of it completely optional. Again, this
      is compatible with the target of unicode() becoming the default
      string type in some future version of Python.


    - At present, expects the reader to exercise 'pydoc' or help() to
      access documentation, which is suffice for me at least. There is
      no strange behaviour that needs documentation.



I would like to take this moment to ask all those proposing massive
changes to ConfigParser to do so under a different name - ConfigParser
is not the place for your code. Please do not use 'config' either, it is
too ambiguous. Thanks.


David.

--
Astrology is a load of bollocks. But then, as a Leo, I'm naturally
sceptical.
    -- Post to http://talk.guardian.co.uk/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 09:15:19 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:15:19 +0200
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<du7fz4n6ozx.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<41695425$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1glhz5t.k4p1lz19jdab0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
   ...
> Probably so, but that doesn't support the arguement that
> there's something wrong with a logical xor argument coercing
> it's operands to boolean values unless one also argues that
> the logical "and", "or" and "not" operators should also not
> coerce their operands to booleans.

One of the greatest sources of usefulness for 'and' and 'or' is exactly
that these operators _don't_ coerce their operands -- they always return
one of the objects that are given as their operands, never any
'coercion' of it.  This lets one code, e.g., 

    k, v = (onedict or another).popitem()

instead of

    if onedict:
        k, v = onedict.popitem()
    else:
        k, v = another.popitem()

Operator 'xor' couldn't possibly ensure this useful behavior, alas.


Alex


From newspost at lolmc.com  Wed Oct 20 08:46:53 2004
From: newspost at lolmc.com (Lol McBride)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:46:53 +0100
Subject: testing for uniquness in a large list
References: <pan.2004.10.20.10.01.17.525999@lolmc.com>
	<mailman.5216.1098270445.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.20.12.46.53.604754@lolmc.com>

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:07:20 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:

> On Wed, 2004-10-20 at 11:01 +0100, Lol McBride wrote:
>>snip snip <<

Doh! And once againwith feeling Doh!
Thank you for pointing that out to me
Lol



From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Sun Oct 10 01:40:07 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 01:40:07 -0400
Subject: The IDE question
In-Reply-To: <Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4168CB37.4070801@kzoo.edu>

Byron wrote:

> Hi DA,
>
> I don't know if you will find this to be helpful, but one of my 
> favorite IDEs is DrPython, which is free and allows you to have 
> multiple files open at the same time.  Check it out...
>
> http://drpython.sourceforge.net/
>
> Byron
> ---
>
> dataangel wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to find an IDE for python that I'm comfortable with. For 
>> my needs IDLE actually works 99% of the time, but on my current 
>> project I need to have lots of files open at once, and I would really 
>> prefer to have tabbed browsing. I'd even try to code this into IDLE 
>> myself but I have no experience with Tk.
>>
>> All of the IDEs I've found (google + python wiki page) are either A) 
>> Commercial or B) Written for either an older version of python or 
>> wxPython or C) Are syntax highlighting in eclipse and that's it.
>>
>> All I'm really looking for is the equivalent of IDLE with tabbed 
>> browsing. Anyone have any suggestions?
>>
>>
DrPython seems to be just what I'm looking for -- after a few bugs are 
fixed and the open file window is improved. I can't open files on 
computers on my local network because there's no mechanism to do that, I 
can't type in my own path (doesn't respond to me typing it in and 
hitting enter), and shortcuts to folders don't show up. I also managed 
to find a bug that consistenly makes my system hang :P

I'm e-mailing them the bugs, but overall the best IDE I've tried so far :D



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Oct 19 10:09:12 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:09:12 +0200
Subject: Yet more SMTP
In-Reply-To: <cl34qm$ndu$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
References: <mailman.5167.1098191849.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl34qm$ndu$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20041019140912.GA3232@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 02:22:51PM +0100, Richard Brodie wrote:
> exarkun wrote:
> > Sure it does.  "Plain text" and "base64 encoded" aren't different
> > in a way that makes any difference.
> 
> Apart from the difference between 'working' and 'not working'.

That's why I mentioned it :-)

-- Gerhard
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From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Oct  2 23:00:00 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 23:00:00 -0400
Subject: urllib2 documentation
In-Reply-To: <864d3709041002191173731eb3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cjngnm$pi5$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<864d3709041002191173731eb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <415F6B30.4030404@rogers.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
...

>Well, I agree that some parts of the library are not very well
>documented. But urllib2 is *so* simple to use for almost all
>situations that it goes almost without the need for documentation. If
>all that you need is to read a URL, do it like this:
>
>urlopen("http://somesite.com/somepage")
>  
>
...

>But
>that's not something that really should worry most users.
>  
>
What you've described, and what the examples demonstrate, however, is 
only the most trivial use case for urllib2, ones no different than 
urllib.  The urllib2 module is *intended* to allow you to work within 
esoteric/complex environments including those requiring http 
authentication, https negotiation and the like. That is, the whole 
*point* of urllib2 is that it handles those situations where urllib 
doesn't provide the needed features. But the documentation never 
explains how to accomplish those things which are beyond urllib (which 
lets you pass in a data argument, AFAICS, which is all that the examples 
demonstrate with urllib2).

The documentation explains what objects are there, but not how to use 
them.  I can gather I must use an HTTPSHandler object to open an https 
url, but where do I put it?  How do I associate an HTTPBasicAuthHandler 
with a request?  What do I do to give it my authentication parameters? 
(You can figure that out if you think to click on the "password manager" 
explanation link and intuit that you can call add_password on the 
AuthHandler too)

Eventually you either figure out (or find sample code) that tells you 
that those rather cryptic build_opener and install_opener functions have 
something to do with making it all work.

There's actually sample code in the docstrings of the module which is at 
least as useful as the example in the official docs, btw, which looks 
like this:

    import urllib2

    # set up authentication info
    authinfo = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler()
    authinfo.add_password('realm', 'host', 'username', 'password')

    proxy_support = urllib2.ProxyHandler({"http" : "http://ahad-haam:3128"})

    # build a new opener that adds authentication and caching FTP handlers
    opener = urllib2.build_opener(proxy_support, authinfo,
    urllib2.CacheFTPHandler)

    # install it
    urllib2.install_opener(opener)

    f = urllib2.urlopen('http://www.python.org/')

and is sufficient to get you going.  It explains *where* you put your 
handlers, gives examples of how to use the objects (i.e. it actually 
documents the "add_password", rather than the internal customisation 
point *http_error_401 for the AuthHandler,* and gives a concrete example 
of the constructor arguments for the proxy).

So, my suggestion (which is why this is copied to docs@), copy the 
examples from the module docstring into the examples section of the docs.

Anyway, enough ranting by old farts too lazy to write better 
documentation themselves (that's me, btw, though in my defense, these 
days I use Twisted for this kind of stuff),
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 18:04:01 2004
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony C)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 15:04:01 -0700
Subject: Matlab import
References: <4164fec6.5798796@news.marelli.it>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac.0410071404.47cf8e29@posting.google.com>

alberto.mantovaniNOSPAM at bologna.marelli.it (Alberto) wrote in message news:<4164fec6.5798796 at news.marelli.it>...
> Dear all,
> often I recived data in matlab format (.mat) I'd like to process these
> data in python environment. Are there some libreries to import .mat
> format in python ?
> 
> thanks 
> Alberto

I did this about a year ago- so I hope it still works.

1 You need the SciPy package installed.
Google for scipy- I'm sure you will find it.

2. from scipy import io
(you can import everything if you want, but the scipy package is
almost as massive as the python distribution :-) )

3.  myobject = io.loadmat(matlab_filename, None, 0)

I think myobject is a typical matlab matrix.
If you use PythonWin, you can do commandline completion on the
myobject
object, to look for attributes.

I dont use matlab, so I can't help you much further.

good luck


Tony


From greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com  Wed Oct 27 13:55:19 2004
From: greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:55:19 -0500
Subject: EDI Tools
Message-ID: <00e801c4bc4e$2101e5e0$054b12ac@D18SYX41>

Hello-

I've read the archives with interest concerning the EDI format for
information exchange.  I didn't see anything in the vaults to handle the EDI
X12 standard and wondered if anyone has done work with that.  If not, I have
some tools I have developed that would be a good start on creating a Python
based library to create/process EDI documents.  My interest would be in the
medical/health care fields, but we could abstract them to work off any of
the EDI documentation.

Anyone interested?

Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.

This email and any attachments to it are privileged and confidential and are
intended solely for use of the individual or entity to which they are
addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, any
use, distribution, or copying of this communication, or disclosure of all or
any part of its content to any other person, is strictly prohibited. If you
have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by
replying to this message and destroy this message and delete any copies held
in your electronic files. Thank you.




From jezequiel at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 23:09:34 2004
From: jezequiel at gmail.com (Justin Ezequiel)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 03:09:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Tkinter and utf-8
Message-ID: <loom.20041029T050646-516@post.gmane.org>

What font is Tkinter using for displaying utf-8 characters?

On my Windows XP, most of the characters with names (unicodedata.name)
are displayed WYSIWYG.
However, on my Mandrake (warning: Linux newbie), most characters are
displayed as \u???? where ???? is the Hex code.

## start of script Tkinter_gui.py----------
import Tkinter
import ScrolledText
import codecs
import tkFont

##FONT = 'Courier'

class MyFrame(Tkinter.Frame):
  def __init__(self, master=None):
      self.root = master
      Tkinter.Frame.__init__(self, master)
      self.pack(fill=Tkinter.BOTH, expand=1)
##        self.textBox = ScrolledText.ScrolledText(self, font=(FONT, 12))
      self.textBox = ScrolledText.ScrolledText(self,
font=tkFont.Font(size=12))
      self.textBox.pack(fill=Tkinter.BOTH, expand=1)

  def write(self, txt):
      self.textBox.insert(Tkinter.END, txt)
      self.textBox.see(Tkinter.END)
      self.textBox.update_idletasks()

if __name__ == '__main__':
  root = Tkinter.Tk()

  frame = MyFrame(root)

  f = codecs.open('named.txt', 'r', 'utf-8')
  frame.write('\n'.join(f.read().splitlines()))
  f.close()

  root.minsize(640, 480)
  Tkinter.mainloop()
## end of script ----------

Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40)
[GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk)] on linux2

and

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
MS Windows XP SP2

Please CC me directly as I am not subscribed

BTW, tried to e-mail directly (with 2 jpeg screenshots and the named.txt file) 
but got the following:

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

    python-list at python.org

Technical details of failure:
PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 13): 553 rejected, message looks like spam.




From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Tue Oct 26 12:07:32 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:07:32 +0200
Subject: printing HTML or PDF from Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5514.1098804827.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5514.1098804827.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cllso5$n0b$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Donnal Walter wrote:
> We want to be able to print HTML or PDF files to a given printer from 
> Python in a kind of batch mode (without opening a preview window or 
> printer dialog for each file). The printer is on a network, but for 

os.system ('"C:\Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat 6.0\Reader\AcroRd32.exe"'  + 
' /p /h ' + yourpdf)

This still brings up an empry Adobe Reader window.

General Strategy:
- does right-click on such a file shows a Print entry?
- if yes, try to find the definition for that entry in the registry
- HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT/.html => htmlfile
- look for HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT/htmlfile/shell/Print/command

Doing this using the _winreg module is left as an exercise.

I guess the command line options for Acrobat are the same on Linux (-p -h).

Mozilla doesn't seem to have a command line option to print 
(http://www.mozilla.org/docs/command-line-args.html).

Daniel


From hellas_74 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 18 02:38:32 2004
From: hellas_74 at hotmail.com (Hellas)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:38:32 +0200
Subject: operation with strings and numbers
References: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it> <du7acun3kvz.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckqqp2$2om$1@news.flashnet.it>
	<1glsu2s.t92mev7jx81cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ckvok7$l0s$1@news.flashnet.it>

Sorry but It doesn't exist 




From zathras at thwackety.com  Sat Oct  9 05:31:40 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 10:31:40 +0100
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
	<4165ad9a$0$44853$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
	<6f402501.0410080622.2343540d@posting.google.com>
	<41671917$0$44845$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
	<7xekk8dc8d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <41679b94$0$44848$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Michael Sparks <zathras at thwackety.com> writes:
>> Suppose the following user groups:
>>    * Refuse all cookies - can't use cookies to track, IP isn't 100%
>>      reliable.
>>    * Users accept all cookies, don't care - ideal candidates for sampling
>>    * Users generally have cookies enabled, but don't like being tracked.
> 
> There are some users who block cookies, but they're rare enough that
> using cookies is more reliable than using IP addresses.  Also, if
> you're just looking at page views, you don't need persistent cookies,
> just session cookies.

The OP was talking about tracking users, so _personally_ I would suggest
persistent cookies of some sort. I'm not a fan of tracking at all myself,
which is why I'll tend to suggest to people the idea of an opt-out/opt-in
mechanism like the one I suggested - although IMO the fact you only send
these things to people you know can handle cookies correctly helps
somewhat. :-) Also given the OP had a UK email address if he is tracking
users by IP he has to put a notice up on his website that users can find
very easily informing them that this is the case. (EU regulation)

Regards,


Michael.



From riccardo.rorssi76 at email.it  Sun Oct 17 08:00:21 2004
From: riccardo.rorssi76 at email.it (Riccardo Rossi)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:00:21 GMT
Subject: Binding in Python
Message-ID: <p9tcd.150344$35.7365865@news4.tin.it>

Hi all!

Can anyone tell me what are the binding strategies of this language? How 
does the binding works in Python?

Thanks in advance,
Riccardo Rossi. 




From steve_erickson at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 20 09:50:43 2004
From: steve_erickson at hotmail.com (Steve Erickson)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 06:50:43 -0700
Subject: Problem with logging module
References: <78406811.0410130851.5cf73a75@posting.google.com>
	<ckjpbd$o0b$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<78406811.0410140401.4d466185@posting.google.com>
	<cklqac$3il$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<78406811.0410150537.5173afd0@posting.google.com>
	<ckoqcc$gp0$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <78406811.0410200550.9e7720f@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote in message news:<ckoqcc$gp0$03$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Steve Erickson wrote:
> 
> > Thanks a bunch for your patience and explanations.  It would be nice
> > if there was a method of checking the logger or handler for an
> > instance of it:
> > 
> > logger = logging.getLogger(name)
> > if not logger.handler(dir + '/' + name + '.log'):
> >     logger.propagate = False
> >     handler = logging.FileHandler(dir + '/' + name + '.log')
> >     logger.addHandler(handler)
> 
> There is the (unfortunately undocumented) property "handlers" on a Logger
> insnstance that you can use:
> 
> if not fname in [h.stream.name for h in logger.handlers]:
>     ...

Excellent!!  Thanks.


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 14 08:23:54 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:23:54 -0400
Subject: os.system and flow control
In-Reply-To: <81a41dd.0410140248.612d2ed9@posting.google.com>
References: <81a41dd.0410140248.612d2ed9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DNmdnVdU3aNH8vPcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Lad wrote:
> In my program I use 
> os.popen2('notepad.exe IDPass.txt')
> to open IDPass.txt file in Notepad window. Users can edit this file
> but the problem is that if the program runs on Windows 98  , the
> program does not wait for closing of Notepad window but continues
> running with the next command after
> os.popen2('notepad.exe IDPass.txt').
> If the program runs on XP, the execution of my program is paused until
> I close the notepad window.
> How shall I force the WIndows 98 to pause the execution like WIndows
> Xp ?

Odd, I recall this being asked recently.  It wasn't you by
any chance, was it?

I believe the ultimate conclusion was that you should investigate
the START command with an option of /WAIT.

-Peter


From NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it  Wed Oct 27 04:34:16 2004
From: NOmanlio_perilloSPAM at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:34:16 GMT
Subject: Yet Another Command Line Parser
References: <5c4tn0latkspkrrlj8r66qj7h35qbpies0@4ax.com>
	<qExfd.3218$kM.28@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <t9nun01ejbv9j4mhvio5lih9voi27mbe00@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:33:42 GMT, Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com>
wrote:

>Manlio Perillo wrote:
>> # add spaces to avoids errors like: 1 2, 3 4 -> (12, 34)
>> _options = ' '.join(sys.argv[1:])
>> 
>> def call(func):
>>     """
>>     Call func, passing to it the arguments from the command line
>>     """
>>     exec('func(' + _options + ')')
>
>> The only problem is that error messages are ugly.
>
>And it's a huge security hole.  What if I did
>
>
>script.py "x=6)\
>import os
>os.system('ls -l')"
>

I'm not sure (it does not works on Windows 'shell'), have you run this
code? It does not raises a SyntaxError?

>Even if not a security hole, it's tricky to handle the
>combined shell and Python escaping rules
>
>   script.py  x="This is a string"
>
>won't work, while
>
>   script.py  'x="This is a string"'
>

Actually on Windows the right syntax is 
script.py x='"This is a string"'

>should. Embedding ! and \escaped characters should be
>even more fun.
>


Thanks and regards   Manlio Perillo



From erik.wilsher at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 13:24:09 2004
From: erik.wilsher at gmail.com (erik.wilsher at gmail.com)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 10:24:09 -0700
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<du71xgjpsay.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<z5nr98uuk2l4.ul5xbcv4hq6x.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <1096651449.003157.206050@k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com>

I work with process automation myself, and I belive that writing an OPC
server is *not* a trivial task, even in python.  There are some good
books available on this subject, the OPC-foundations home page contains
some good references.

If you want to get started with client code quickly, you could try the
QuickOPC ($) library from OPC-labs (www.opclabs.com).  Setting up a
client in python with that library is three lines of code (really!):
------
import win32com.client
import time
s = win32com.client.Dispatch('OPCLabs.EasyDA')

def test(times=10000):
v = s.ReadItem('','Matrikon.OPC.Simulation', 'Saw-toothed
Waves.Real8','',0)
t0 = time.clock()
for i in range(times):
v = s.ReadItem('','Matrikon.OPC.Simulation', 'Saw-toothed
Waves.Real8','',0)
    print time.clock()-t0

test(1000)



From golux at comcast.net  Tue Oct 19 12:23:13 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:23:13 -0400
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <41753F71.8090900@comcast.net>

Jonathan Ellis wrote:

> ...  A more-experienced co-worker pointed me in the right
> direction, and the IDE did the rest.  ("Find definition," "Find
> references.")  Grep can do much the same thing, but painfully slowly --
> and inaccurately, when you have a bunch of interfaces implementing the
> same method names.  ...

Try "glimpse" (http://webglimpse.net) -- it uses a superset of
grep's arguments and can search large collections of files at
a single bound!  Re-indexing takes a few seconds, but doesn't
need to be done unless there are major changes.  The indexing
makes it considerably faster than grep (you can even read the
index into memory using glimpseserver, and then searches of
~100MB of files take a fraction of a second).  The first thing
I do when using any large Python library is put a glimpse
index on it.

Steve


From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Oct 14 13:49:18 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:49:18 +0200
Subject: Search-Filter for LDAP (MS Active Directory)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4951.1097766209.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4951.1097766209.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <upq242-cv3.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Ames Andreas (MPA/DF) wrote:
> [..Active Directory access with python-ldap..]
> I had no luck with sasl (only GSSAPI available in my case).

It is possible. Been there done that for testing purposes with python-ldap 
2.0.x, OpenLDAP 2.2.x libs, Cyrus-SASL 2.1.18+ and heimdal 0.6.2+. Make sure 
the underlying libs are up to date.

I had to use --no-addresses with heimdal's kinit. But that was probably my 
screwed up DNS zone in my test configuration.

Ciao, Michael.


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 00:36:46 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:36:46 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <4162200b$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4293.1096947506.5135.python-list@python.org>	<KUo8d.3033$UP1.1475@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4303.1096948810.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162200b$0$59533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <416224DE.1050106@cloudthunder.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

>On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>When I said "harsh", I meant being accused of trolling,
>>attempting to annoy, stir trouble, etc.  None which was my
>>intent nor did I think that my post would be interpreted as
>>such (otherwise I wouldn't have posted it).
>>    
>>
>
>If you honestly didn't think you were being rude and weren't
>going to annoy anybody, you really, really do need to read how
>to ask questions the smart way.  c.l.p is a very kind place,
>but should somebody as naive as you wander into the rest of
>Usenet... well, I just don't like to think of what might
>happen.
>
>  
>
Apparently it is not a matter of "smartly" but don't ask at all.

I get the point, grief. 


From xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net  Wed Oct 27 04:47:14 2004
From: xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 08:47:14 GMT
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
References: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
	<mailman.5513.1098804135.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<3Svfd.3090$kM.900@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<Xns958EEA9028DD7PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.73>
	<elDfd.8180$KJ6.6152@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns958F6DD256F03PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> said :

> I upgraded to Spambayes 1.0.  I think I needed to change something,
> but I've forgotten.  I've attached my current version (sans passwords
> and identifing mailing list information) to this post.

Thanks for that, Andrew !
 
> It does not contribute.  It can't.  That is, it computes a spam value
> for a message but since it doesn't know if that classification is
> correct it can't train itself.
> Every few months I export all my saved mail (inbox, sent, various
> archive folders) as "ham".  I also save all the spam that gets through
> my filter so I can export it as "spam."  I then train SpamBayes on
> those two data sets and use the result for my filter program.

I more or less suspected something such, sounds natural. Thanks for the 
clarification though.
 
> I didn't make those additions to the attached file.  Feel free to do
> so, and to update the Wiki.  Shouldn't be more than a dozen or two
> lines of code.  Eg, to have a file of blacklisted subjects you could
> use WhiteListFrom (which reads lines from a file, and reloads if the
> file's timestamp changed) and tweak the test condition.

Usual python mantra : first make it work, then (maybe) make it better. I'll 
probably skip the "then make it faster" part :-)
 
> Enjoy, and thank you for your kind comments regarding my code.  That
> program has really helped with my email sanity.  Thanks also to the
> SpamBayes people and to Kevin Altis for his virus killer code I used.
 
Oh, so he _is_ the Kevin (of PythonCard fame) who appears in the comments, 
I'd been wondering... There probably still is an old, unfinished "sample" 
of mine in the PyCard CVS, called "fpop.py" :)

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From adurdin at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 07:25:53 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:25:53 +1100
Subject: difference between class statement and def statement (WAS Re:
	End of file)
In-Reply-To: <loom.20041011T074611-287@post.gmane.org>
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2sucjlF1p5plpU1@uni-berlin.de> <416a09c4.4267802054@news.oz.net>
	<59e9fd3a0410102158179dac9e@mail.gmail.com>
	<loom.20041011T074611-287@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a04101104254087ea80@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:58:03 +0000 (UTC), Steven Bethard 
> 
> The name of a function is bound to the function object when the def statement
> is executed.  However, the function's code block is not executed until f is
> called, at which point the name f has already been bound to the function
> object and is thus available from the globals.

What I wasn't expecting was that "foo" would automatically be looked
up in the enclosing scope... for some reason I'd forgotten about
nested scopes, I don't know why.


From da_mueller at gmx.net  Thu Oct 21 07:11:25 2004
From: da_mueller at gmx.net (Daniel Mueller)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:11:25 +0200
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
Message-ID: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch>

Hello Fellow Python Programmers,

I have the following problem:

i want to read the content of a file every 10 seconds. now what is the 
best funktion to do that? to open the file, read it and close it 
consumes a lot of CPU time. is there a better solution?

Greetings Daniel
-- 
Please use my GnuPG (PGP) Public-Key for secure message exchange.
(http://157.161.155.222/damueller-pubkey.txt)


From maney at pobox.com  Sat Oct  2 09:57:22 2004
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 13:57:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Ubuntu Linux loves Python
Message-ID: <cjmc42$420$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Apologies if this isn't news here - I've been too busy this last week
or so for even skimming the traffic here, in part because I've been
messing around with Ubuntu's preview release on a spare machine... and,
of course, spending time on their very busy mailing list.  :-)  I didn't
find any mention of Ubuntu in a quick scan of recent messages, so...

  Ubuntu is a Linux distribution that starts with the breadth of Debian
  and adds regular releases (every six months), a clear focus on the
  user and usability (it should "Just Work", TM) and a commitment to
  security updates with 18 months of support for every release.

The first release is scheduled for October 20th if I recall the
announcement correctly.  But I started out to write about the Python
aspect of this.  A while ago I had seen one of the project members make
a passing remark about how dedicated they were to having "insanely
great support for Python" in Ubuntu, but I only realized that this was
a literal statement of policy when I finally wandered over to their
"bounties" page (http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/bounties):

  Here are some software projects for Ubuntu that are available as paid
  bounties. ... The 2004 budget for these bounties is USD 100,000. ...

  Ubuntu prefer the community to do the work in Python. Here are some
  Python-related projects that are up for bounties:

  Python scripting everywhere ...  Bounties will be offered on Python
  scripting interfaces for the following tools: OpenOffice, Blender,
  AbiWord, Gnumeric, The GIMP

  Mozilla work [each of these is a separate bounty item]: Thunderbird
  message filing quick access; Thunderbird message filing intelligence;
  Browser error pages Thunderbird SMTP message queueing

  Bugzilla bounty tracking

And they list a few bounties that have already been awarded (I'm not
sure if that means completed or just "contracted", but I suspect both
are represented).  With the emphasis on Python, as well as the overall
quality of the work I've seen in the work still in progress, I think
Ubuntu is of more than passing interest to anyone interested in Linux
or Python, and especially to those interested in both.

-- 
I didn't write a whole, free operating system, either.  I wrote some pieces
and invited other people to join me by writing other pieces.  So I set an
example.  I said, "I'm going in this direction.  Join me and we'll get
there." And enough people joined in that we got there.  -- R M Stallman


From 1 at 2.3  Sat Oct 16 23:13:46 2004
From: 1 at 2.3 (User)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 03:13:46 GMT
Subject: How to get the size of a file?
Message-ID: <u0o3n09r9ak5cs0p8k88bbknf3nkqmaplu@4ax.com>

Anyone have ideas which os command could be used to get the size of a
file without actually opening it?  My intention is to write a script
that identifies duplicate files with different names.  I have no
trouble getting the names of all the files in the directory using the
os.listdir() command, but that doesn't return the file size.  In order
to be identical, files must be the same size, so I want to use file
size as the first criteria, then, if they are the same size, actually
open them up and compare the contents.  

I have written such a script in the past, but had to resort to
something like:

os.system('dir *.* >> trash.txt')

The next step was then to open up 'trash.txt', and piece together the
information I need compare file sizes.  The problems with this
approach are that it is very platform dependent (worked on WIN 95, but
don't know what else it will work on) and 8.3 filename limitations
that apply within this environment.  That is the reason I'm looking
for some other command to obtain file size before the files are ever
opened.


From james.frohnhofer at csfb.com  Wed Oct 27 10:18:52 2004
From: james.frohnhofer at csfb.com (Frohnhofer, James)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:18:52 +0100
Subject: Please help - get average
Message-ID: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C61725@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>


> Robin Becker wrote
> ...... interestingly the standard algorithms for means/deviations are 
> numerically poor. As an example
> 
>  >>> (1.e30+1-1.0e30)/3
> 0.0
> 
> Where we have total loss of information in one of the terms.
> 
> 
> There are better algorithms involving recursion,
> 
> eg
> 
>     mu[n] = (data[n]+(n-1)*mu[n-1])/n
> The error in the existing estimate, mu[n-1], gets multiplied by the 
> number (n-1)/n which is less than one (ie the errors are damped).
> 

I'm not sure I believe this.  It's been a while since I studied this, but I
think I remember maintaining precision at the Frankenstein level:
"Multiplication bad.  Addition good."  Keep the multiplications and divisions
to a minimum, and try to do them at the end.

> However, in the case of widely differing magnitudes I think 
> you need to 
> accumulate the sums specially.


Well, its not even that hard:

 >>> data=[1.e30,1.,-1.e30]
 >>> sum(data)/len(data)
 0.0
 >>> data.sort(lambda x,y:-cmp(abs(x),abs(y)))
 >>> data
 [-1e+030, 1e+030, 1.0]
 >>> sum(data)/len(data)  #Assuming sum works the way I think it should . . .
 0.33333333333333331

But using the recursive 
 >>> def mu(lst):
         n = len(lst)
         if n==1:
             return lst[0]
         else:
             return (lst[0] + ((n-1)*mu(lst[1:])))/n

 >>> data=[1.e30,1.,-1.e30]
 >>> mu(data)
 0.0
 >>> data.sort(lambda x,y:-cmp(abs(x),abs(y)))
 >>> mu(data)
 0.0

it seems we lose even the ability to maintain the precision by sorting on the
magnitude. 

==============================================================================
This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you received
this message in error please delete it and notify us. If this message was
misdirected, CSFB does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. CSFB
retains and monitors electronic communications sent through its network.
Instructions transmitted over this system are not binding on CSFB until they
are confirmed by us. Message transmission is not guaranteed to be secure.
==============================================================================



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 07:08:31 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:08:31 -0300
Subject: correct way to detect container type
In-Reply-To: <4165178F.1080300@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
References: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<ck33gj$3ah$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4165178F.1080300@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
Message-ID: <864d370904100704081e59479e@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:16:47 +0100, Robin Becker <robin at reportlab.com> wrote:
> Peter Otten wrote:
> 
> > I prefer
> >
> > isinstance(var, (list, tuple))
> >
> > to the above, but I don't think there is one correct way. Often you don't
> > want a full-blown container, just an iterable. Then
> >
> > try:
> >     it = iter(var)
> > except TypeError:
> >     it = iter([var])
> >
> > may be more appropriate. However, you will end up iterating over the
> > characters if var is a string, which often has to be guarded against with
> > an additional isinstance(basestring) test
> >
> > try:
> >     iter(var)
> > except TypeError:
> >     var = [var]
> > else:
> >     if isinstance(var, basestring): var = [var]
> >
> > Peter
> > 
> lots of good ideas, but I think this breaks in 2.1 which we're still supporting.
> As do some of the iteration ideas.
> --
> Robin Becker

In 2.1 you can probably use the __getitem__ test.

And I also think that you can define a conditional function in your
library, as to make possible for 2.2+ users to pass iterators. It's a
general solution, and more modern one at that.

I'm now using generators for related things -- namely, when generating
long output, I'm yielding individual strings for each line (or record)
instead of concatenating them into a huge string. Depending on the
system, it will make it more responsive. The performance impact is
negligible; in some scenarios, it's in fact faster, because you can
avoid lots of small string concatenations.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 12 20:00:29 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:00:29 GMT
Subject: Alternatives for pickle?
References: <slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <416c6761.104235843@news.oz.net>

On 11 Oct 2004 08:26:12 GMT, Antoon Pardon <apardon at forel.vub.ac.be> wrote:

>I'm writing a little game, a gridler application, where you
>can turn pixmaps into puzzle's and try to solve them. I already
>have the data structure for such a puzzle worked out, one of
>the problems is writing it to a file and reading it back in.
>
>I first went to the pickle module but there I read this.
>
>| Warning: The pickle module is not intended to be secure against
>| erroneous or maliciously constructed data. Never unpickle data
>| received from an untrusted or unauthenticated source.
>
>But since this is for a game and people should be able to
>exchange puzzles, it seems a heavy requirement to ask of
>the users to check a puzzle file for security hazards.
>
>
>I also thought about writing out a string that, when read
>back in and fed to eval would recreate the structure. But
>that seems to be just as insecure if not more so.
>
>So how do you serialize data in python, when you want
>a somewhat secure mechanisme. Preferably where a user
>can make a puzzle file by hand in a text editor.
>
I would consider saving and retrieving your puzzle info in a simple csv format.
You can invent your own very simple interpreter based on lines of the
form
    cmd, whatever...

the csv module has methods and options to control delimiters and quoting etc,
but e.g., by default:

 >>> import csv
 >>> lines = """
 ... this, can, be, a, command, format
 ... cmd, easy to edit with editor, note what happened to spaces
 ... cmd, arg, "quoted arg", etc
 ... do, something, else
 ... push, something on a stack
 ... set, something,to,a,value
 ... call, afunction, arg1, arg2, etc
 ... etc
 ... """
 >>> rdr = csv.reader(lines.splitlines())
 >>> for row in rdr: print row
 ...
 []
 ['this', ' can', ' be', ' a', ' command', ' format']
 ['cmd', ' easy to edit with editor', ' note what happened to spaces']
 ['cmd', ' arg', ' "quoted arg"', ' etc']
 ['do', ' something', ' else']
 ['push', ' something on a stack']
 ['set', ' something', 'to', 'a', 'value']
 ['call', ' afunction', ' arg1', ' arg2', ' etc']
 ['etc']

Anything that will iterate by lines should be ok to pass to csv.reader
so you can pass an open file, e.g., file('mypuzzlesetup.txt')

Obviously, you can interpret row[0] as operation and do what you like, e.g.,


 >>> rdr = csv.reader("""\
 ... abs, 123
 ... abs, -123
 ... sum, 1,2,3
 ... sum, 100,200,5
 ... xxx, what?
 ... """.splitlines())

 >>> for row in rdr:
 ...     cmd = getattr(__builtins__, row[0], None)
 ...     if cmd is None: print 're-edit your info:',row
 ...     else:
 ...         args = map(int, row[1:])
 ...         if len(args)==1: args=args[0]
 ...         print row,'=>', cmd(args)
 ...
 ['abs', ' 123'] => 123
 ['abs', ' -123'] => 123
 ['sum', ' 1', '2', '3'] => 6
 ['sum', ' 100', '200', '5'] => 305
 re-edit your info: ['xxx', ' what?']

The csv module also has stuff to control delimiters and a writer method, etc.
See help(csv) interactively, after importing csv.

Note that no one can introduce an xxx do do anything weird, and if you
validate all the command formats, and don't do int conversions etc without
try/except, etc, you should be able to reject anything not safe, and write
informative error messages. You don't necessarily have to abort on any and
all errors, but you can have options for that if you want to get fancy.

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 09:54:09 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:54:09 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<1glbyrn.4jt08j144wg1dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<b644658b.0410120040.723f73a1@posting.google.com>
	<1gljja1.1nxj82c1a25c1bN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416bd688$0$21236$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <1gljufr.9d1d5319us58iN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Nicolas Lehuen <nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com> wrote:

> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message de
news:1gljja1.1nxj82c1a25c1bN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> > Nicolas Lehuen <nicolas at lehuen.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > problem was the same ; people expected mod_python to run in a
> > > multi-process context, not a multi-threaded context (I guess this is
> > > due to a Linux-centered mindset, forgetting about BSD, MacosX or Win32
> > > OSes). When I asked questions and pointed problem, the answer was 'Duh
> > > - use Linux with the forking MPM, not Windows with the threading MPM'.
> > 
> > Sorry, I don't get your point.  Sure, Windows makes process creation
> > hideously expensive and has no forking.  But all kinds of BSD, including
> > MacOSX, are just great at forking.  Why is a preference for multiple
> > processes over threads "forgetting about BSD, MacOSX", or any other
> > flavour of Unix for that matter?
> 
> Because when you have multithreaded programs, you can easily share objects
between different threads, provided you carefully implement them. On the
web framework I wrote, this means sharing and reusing the same DB
connection pool, template cache, other caches and so on. This means a
reduced memory footprint and increased performance. In a multi-process
environment, you have to instantiate as many connections, caches,
templates etc. that you have processes. This is a waste of time and
memory.

I'm not particularly interested in debating the pros and cons of threads
vs processes, right now, but in getting a clarification of your original
assertion which I _still_ don't get.  It's still quoted up there, so
please DO clarify: how would "a Linux-centered mindset forgetting about
BSD" (and MacOSX is a BSD in all that matters in this context, I'd say)
bias one against multi-threading or towards multi-processing?  In what
ways are you claiming that Unix-like systems with BSD legacy are
inferior in multi-processing, or superior in multi-threading, to ones
with Linux kernels?  I think I understand both families decently well
and yet I _still_ don't understand whence this claim is coming.  (Forget
the red herring of Win32 -- nobody's disputing that _their_ process
spawning is a horror of inefficiency -- let's focus about Unixen, since
you did see fit to mention them so explicitly contrasted, hm?!).

_Then_, once that point is cleared, we may (e.g.) debate how the newest
Linux VM development (presumably coming in 2.6.9) may make mmap quite as
fast as sharing memory among threads (which, I gather from hearsay only,
is essentially the case today already... but _only_ for machines with no
more than 2GB, 3GB tops of physical memory being so shared -- the claim
is that the newest developments will let you have upwards of 256 GB of
physical memory shares with similar efficiency, by doing away with the
current pagetables overhead of mmap), and what (if anything) is there in
BSD-ish kernels to match that accomplishments.  But until you clarify
that (to me) strange and confusing assertion, to help me understand what
point you were making there (and nothing in this "answer" of yours is at
all addressing my doubts and my very specific question about it!), I see
little point in trying to delve into such exoterica.


> BTW [shameless plug] here is the cookbook recipe I wrote about thread-safe
caching.
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/302997

I do not see any relevance of that recipe (with which I'm quite
familiar, since I'm preparing the 2nd Edition of the Cookbook) to your
assertion with Linux on one side, and BSD derivatives grouped with
Windows on the other, quoted, questioned and never clarified above.


> > > Well, this is not going to take us anywhere, especially with all the
> > > multicore CPUs coming.
> > 
> > Again, I don't get it.  Why would multicore CPUs be any worse than
> > current multi-CPU machines at multiple processes, and forking?
> 
> Obviously they won't be any worse. Well, to be precise, it still depends
on the OS, because the scheduler must know the difference between 2
processors and a 2-core processor to efficiently balance the work, but
anyway.

As far as I know there is no special support in current kernels for
multi-core CPUs as differentiated from multiple CPUs sharing external
buses... (nor even yet, unless I'm mistaken, for such fundamental
novelties as HyperTransport, aka DirectConnect, which _has_ been around
for quite a while now -- and points to a completely different paradigm
than shared memory as being potentially much-faster IPC... bandwidths of
over 10 gigabytes/second, which poor overworked memory subsystems might
well have some trouble reaching... how one would exploit hypertransport
within multiple threads of a process, programmed on the basis of sharing
memory, I dunno -- using it between separate processes which exchange
messages appears conceptually simpler).  Anyway, again to the limited
amount of my current knowledge, this holds just as much for multiple
threads as for multiple processes, no?

 
> What I meant is that right now I'm writing this on a desktop PC with
hyperthreading. This means that even on a desktop PC you can benefit
from having multithreaded (or multi-processed) applications.

I'm writing this on my laptop (uniprocessor, no quirks), because I'm on
a trip, but at home I do have a dual-processor desktop (actually a
minitower, but many powerful 'desktops' are that way), and it's a
year-old model (and Apple was making dual processors for years before
the one I own, though with 32-bit 'G4' chips rather than 64-bit 'G5'
ones they're using now).  So this is hardly news: I can run make on a
substantial software system much faster with a -j switch to let it spawn
multiple jobs (processes).

> With multicore or multiprocessor machines being more and more current, the
pressure to have proper threading support in Python will grow and grow.

The pressure has been growing for a while and I concur it will keep
growing, particularly since the OS by far most widespread on desktops
has such horrible features for multiple-process spawning and control.
But, again, before we go on to debate this, I would really appreciate it
if you clarified your previous assertions, to help me understand why you
believe that BSD derivatives, including Mac OS X, are to be grouped on
the same side as Windows, while only Linux would favour processes over
threads -- when, to _me_, it seems so obvious that the reasonable
grouping is with all Unix-like systems on one side, Win on the other.
You either know something I don't, about the internals of these systems,
and it appears so obvious to you that you're not even explaining it now
that I have so specifically requested you to explain; or there is
something else going on that I really do not understand.


Alex


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 15 14:03:05 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 21:03:05 +0300
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>
	<416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<mailman.4998.1097833203.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7ekjz3lly.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Phil" == Phil Thompson <phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk> writes:

    Phil> To be pedantic for a second...  Eric3 is free on all
    Phil> platforms. However it requires PyQt and Qt which are not
    Phil> free on all platforms. The idea of a commercal .exe version
    Phil> of Eric3 is a possibility which wouldn't require PyQt and Qt
    Phil> licenses and would be priced to compete with the
    Phil> alternatives.

    Phil> Let me or Detlev know if you would be interested in this.

Wasn't there a cheap Windows version of PyQt+Qt that came with some
Blackadder-book? Couldn't it be used to compile and distribute the
windows version of eric3 free of charge? Alternatively, isn't it
possible for someone that has already bought the license to Qt to just
compile and distribute the Eric3 binary?

This Qt licensing thing is way too messy, I'm not surprised that so
many developers are doing their best to avoid it...

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From danperl at rogers.com  Wed Oct 27 09:02:29 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:02:29 -0400
Subject: request for feedback: pyfmf
References: <oOGdnVv0D8jmduPcRVn-gg@rogers.com>
	<6f402501.0410270426.5d83bf0c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BNWdnaRHtsHuAeLcRVn-jQ@rogers.com>

Thanks, Michael.  It would be easy to add a directory to the packages with 
all the documentation I have on the web site.  Now, the question is: is that 
documentation good enough?  My personal experience with using open-source 
projects has been that they are very poor in documentation.  I don't want to 
do the same with my project, but I did make the decision to rather put out a 
release quickly, even if the documentation is on the thin side.  Having said 
that, I hope that what I already have (on the web) is good enough to get 
someone started.

I will put out two minor releases that will include the documentation, but 
until then, any feedback on the documentation that is on the web?

Thanks again,

Dan

"Michael Foord" <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:6f402501.0410270426.5d83bf0c at posting.google.com...
> "Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message 
> news:<oOGdnVv0D8jmduPcRVn-gg at rogers.com>...
>> pyfmf is a project I started a few months ago and that is registered with
>> sourceforge (http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net,
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyfmf).  It consists of a framework for 
>> file
>> management, with a console based toolkit (zigo) and a graphical platform
>> (zago) based on the framework.  Both zigo and zago are still alpha 
>> releases,
>> addressed only to python enthusiasts.
>>
>> I just released a new version of zigo and the first release of zago. 
>> There
>> have been a few tens of downloads of previous releases of zigo (which is 
>> not
>> bad) but I never received any feedback (at least I didn't get any bad
>> feedback either).  I would like to hear what other people think about it. 
>> I
>> am interested in comments on uses, design, coding or just simply whether 
>> you
>> think this is interesting and useful.  Please take a look at the home 
>> page
>> of the project: http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net.
>>
>
> Another suggestion not so minor really - bundle docs *with* the
> downloads, or as a minimum offer a separately packaged bundle of docs
> for offline reading...... I've seen some amazingly useful looking
> modules that I've never bothered to wade through the source code of to
> work out what they actually do. Asa  simple rule it's about ten times
> easier to write your own code than it is to read someone else's. It's
> an extremely useful skill to gain - but not one you can rely on people
> practising on your code !! Sorry, bit of a rant - but it really annoys
> me when I download a useful looking bit of code, take it home and
> unpack it - only to discover there's no docs bundled with it....
> *sigh* If it's woorth writing, it's worth documenting...
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Fuzzy
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dan Perl 




From dw at botanicus.net  Sat Oct 23 10:16:06 2004
From: dw at botanicus.net (David Wilson)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:16:06 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <417A67A6.4050203@botanicus.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> David Wilson wrote:

> Is it enough to say that it is a good idea *for some people*, and
> that you don't need to be convinced that it's a good idea for you,
> or in general, for that to remain a fact?

> And surely you don't really mean that you don't see a relation
> between (key, value) mapping and attributes.  You *can't* mean
> that... they are both forms of associative mapping.  A key or name
> maps to a value.  End of story.  Obvious as all get out.

In the context of the subject, we are discussing here a replacement 
ConfigParser. Any implementation of attribute access would amount to a 
possibly regression in functionality and more incompatibility with how 
Microsoft did it, as keys may be duplicate in .INI land.

My problem is that for some attribute access pattern:

      confobj.<category>.<item>

confobj represents a configuration reader which bears no relation to the 
<category> objects that might be read from a configuration using the 
reader. Furthermore <item> at best would return only the first key 
matching <item> in <category>. At worst it would return a list of all 
matching items which gets points for being extra confusing. We're also 
veering way off normal Python object attribute access semantics.


> Perhaps you meant you don't believe that this obvious relation
> is in itself a good reason to supply both methods of access?
> Or some other point?

It is magic for no reason, and its use is not obvious. 
conf.get_some_item(category = "blah", item = "foo") reads a lot better 
than "conf.blah.foo". My principle objection is that it is magic that 
simply isn't needed, and apart from the simpler syntax, causes more 
complicated code.

Sure, put it in the stdlib. But in 10 years time when every Python 
beginner is using __getattr__ for wholely ungodly uses, don't blame me.

For other configuration systems with different semantics, perhaps a new 
thread should be created. I'm only really here to defend the simplicity 
of the module currently known as 'ConfigParser'.


David.


From http  Fri Oct  1 01:39:48 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 30 Sep 2004 22:39:48 -0700
Subject: A newbie in more need....
References: <9c3edc58.0409302034.54f93dd2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xvfdv2dzv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

chrispatton at gmail.com (Chris Patton) writes:
> I am writing a program that writes a number of classes, which are all
> fundementally the same thing.  The only thing that is different is the
> names.  Therefore, I need to write a bunch of classes in the quickest
> time I can. Here's what I was thinking of:  ...

Rather than ask the best way do that, ask "why in the heck would
anyone want to do such a bizarre thing under any circumstances"?
If you say what your application is actually trying to accomplish
with those classes, that might get some better answers.


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Sun Oct 10 18:06:48 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 18:06:48 -0400
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <ur7o6kz2f.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:

> Only because Python lacks a logical xor operator, so you're
> used to thinking of ^ as a bitwise operator.  What if you saw
> 
>   string1 xor string2?
> 
> Wouldn't you expect it to be equivalent to
> 
>   (string1 and (not string2)) or ((not string1) and string2)

Yes, no problem.  I was definitely working with the bitwise operator
which is what I thought the OP was originally desiring.

> > It doesn't feel natural to me to have my strings suddenly
> > interpreted as a new data type based on the operation at hand.
> > Logical operators work that way but not numerics
> 
> I don't know what you mean by that.  Nobody seems to have a
> problem with "and" "or" and "not" operators using the truth
> values of strings.  What is there about "xor" that precludes it
> from behaving similarly?

I think we're just talking about different items.  I was referring to
the bitwise (^) xor operator (numeric), but not to a logical xor
operator.  I'd have no problem with a separate logical operator that
behaved like the other logical operators.

The fact that saying "xor" can imply either isn't helping :-)

-- David


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 04:58:11 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:58:11 +0200
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5152.1098149022.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glwdd4.s05uuadrav97N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dima Dorfman <d+pylist at nospamplease.trit.org> wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If the issue is strictly one of whether it's worth somehow making
> >     for x in y: yield x
> > terser (by a new kw, combination of kw, and/or punctuation) I guess we
> > can discuss that (I just don't see the gain to offset the price of 
> > introducing new syntax and one more language thing to learn for 
> > Pythonistas and newcomers to Python).
> 
> I find myself writing a lot of recursive generators, and a while ago I
> implemented this:
> 
>   yield *other
> 
> to mean:
> 
>   for x in other:
>     yield x
> 
> No new keywords, and the asterisk is already used for a similar
> purpose (iterator expansion) in the function call syntax.
> 
> Thoughts? "Neat!" or "Yuck!"?

Looks to me roughly equivalent to such proposals as 'yield from other';
not totally out of whack but IMHO not warranted.  Re specifically
expanding the use of prefix *, I think there might be other good uses
for that -- say:
    a = b, *c, d
meaning the same as
    a = (b,) + tuple(c) + (d,)
or the old, currently out of favour proposal
    a, b, c, *d = e
where d gets (an iterator for) 'the rest of e' after the first three
items of e are unpacked to a, b, and c.  If your idea to specialcase the
* after a yield can work together with these other possibilities, the
whole package might perhaps get in together.


Alex


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 20:31:52 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:31:52 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4898.1097694574.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>	<slrncmn4q1.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<mailman.4760.1097598524.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mqqdho6uojj6a@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4898.1097694574.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10mri2t9ldsatf5@corp.supernews.com>

Clark C. Evans wrote:

>Assume for a moment the following programming costs:
>
>  2m  Minting a name, that is, finding a name that is not 'foo'
>      which semantically adds to the readability and maintainability
>      of the code.
>  
>

Does it *really* take you two whole minutes to find a meaningful name?  
Two minutes is a pretty long time if you're just sitting and thinking.  
Even button1_callback() seems fairly readable and maintanable to me.  
And anyhow, a fair number of the examples of lambda usage that I've seen 
can be easily replaced with a reference to an existing function -- 
operator.mul() isn't that difficult...

To be honest, if I were worrying about programming costs, I'd be looking 
at the time I'd spend trying to refactor my problem into something where 
I could use (perhaps curried versions of) more generic callbacks.  That 
might be a pretty significant investment of time, actually.  Of course, 
it might (or might not) pay off with a cleaner and clearer overall 
architecture...   But perhaps this is a particular weakness of mine, 
where I want to try to generalize things as much as practical.

Given the presumption that many, if not most, uses of lambda could be 
generalized to some degree, I don't think it would be necessary to mint 
a new name for each and every lambda that you currently use, even in 
those cases where there *isn't* a pre-existing standard-lib function 
that serves the same purpose as the lambda.

>  30s Verifying that a function name is not used more than once to 
>      verify that changing its definition, or if it is reused, 
>      making sure all the places where a change would affect is OK.
>  
>

Good point, though well-modularized code should help with this.  I can't 
say that I have problems with intended-name clashes very often.  Given 
reasonable module sizes, I'd call 30s a maximum time rather than an 
average time, but that *is* a valid consideration. 

>In one of my files, I've got 20 or so lambdas, typically only a few
>characters to plug-in a computation.  You're asking me to pay a 40
>minute price just to mint names in this file?  Then, I've had, over
>the past year about 20 edits on that file, some of which change a
>few of these lambdas, say 2 changes per edit on average.  That's
>another 20 minutes.  So, over the last year, in this one file alone,
>not having lambdas would have cost me an additional hour of time!
>I've got 2 largish projects, each averaging about 20 files, so
>that's about 40 hours of time chewed up with small efficiency hits.
>Or, about $4,000 of billable time.   I'd rather keep the money or
>take a vacation, thank you very much.
>  
>

I suspect that you could find a moderately generic approach or two that 
could conveniently replace most of those lambdas, and which would 
require no more maintenance work (and possibly less) than the lambdas 
do, in a lot less time than 40 hours.  Given that many of your lambdas 
are probably variations on a theme, making generic functions might even 
*save* you time.  (Not that I'm quite convinced about your figure of 40 
hours even if you *did* insist on using named functions in the exact 
same style that you now use lambdas, rather than refactoring to take 
advantage of the benefits that full functions give you.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Oct 18 15:08:04 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Ville Vainio)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:08:04 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 18)
Message-ID: <cl10ve$4ep$1@lairds.us>

QOTW: "Other than the parts about 'SADISTS and PERVERTS', what portion
was on topic?" - Peter Hansen, commenting a spam posting
    http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=50285732810cb768

"Python makes me very lazy.  Writing a report in LaTeX today, it was
actually easier for me to make up a syntax for tagging math symbols (put
into comments in the LaTeX source), and extract those and build a List Of
Symbols with a python preprocessor before texification, rather than find
(and figure out how to use) the correct LaTeX package for that." - Caleb
Hattingh
    http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=175f4d840fbb6df2


    The Boo thread inspires Doug Holton to muse about the future
    possibilites of the project, while 'Neuruss' relays news about
    the status of the highly anticipated Starkiller project.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=V8SdnRfq9bLtQvfcRVn-vg%40comcast.com
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=278de0e.0410111836.3a5314e0%40posting.google.com
    
    Daniel Bickett learns how to use the Windows XP balloon tips from
    Python. Once again, ctypes is just the ticket.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.4712.1097513406.5135.python-list%40python.org
        http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/
    
    Blow your technical mind *and* stamp your passport:  see Lithuania in
    autumn, on the occasion of the next PyPy sprint.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=4ce1fbd505bad21f

    Mike Mussman needs to pass a live socket to another process. Apart
    from the well-known posix fork()-based solution, we learn that there
    is actually a relatively clean way to do it in Windows as well.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=5d00592f.0410110923.2bb2b1ea%40posting.google.com
    
    Irmen de Jong announces a new release of the Snakelets web programming
    framework, and gets in an interesting discussion about implementing the
    new, official WSGI API for it and the benefits it would provide.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=416ae4b9%240%2478749%24e4fe514c%40news.xs4all.nl
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.4769.1097609657.5135.python-list%40python.org
    
    Denis Wendum learns that the reverse version of the comparison
    operator __lt__ is __gt__, not __rlt__, but the discussion quickly
    turns towards the differences in attribute access between classic and
    new style classes.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=416BD8E7.9885FEBD%40pasdepourriels.edf.fr
    
    Nick needs to know how to change the desktop background in Windows
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=416c8404%241_3%40alt.athenanews.com
    
    Mabororshi wonders about rewriting the Linux kernel in python. Posters
    question the virtues of such an endeavour, especially that of a pure
    python approach, but writing an OS kernel in Python not only doesn't
    seem so far-fetched - it's been done, as can be seen from the thread.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=10mrba51r9dql4f%40corp.supernews.com
    
    IPython, besides changing the license to BSD, will be going through a
    major cleanup in the immediate future. Fernando Perez, the author of
    the software, wouldn't mind code contributions.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.4814.1097652544.5135.python-list%40python.org
    
    John finds out that at this time, CORBA is probably the optimal way to
    get COM-like functionality for Python in Linux.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac%40posting.google.com
    
    Python 2.4, beta 1 is out. Especially notable with this release is the
    inclusion of the new "subprocess" module.
        http://www.python.org/2.4/
        http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0324.html
    

========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From james.frohnhofer at csfb.com  Thu Oct 14 11:01:01 2004
From: james.frohnhofer at csfb.com (Frohnhofer, James)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:01:01 +0100
Subject: question on list comprehensions
Message-ID: <89D59C407D04D54AA82DC8BA312D430D10C616E8@enyc11p32001.corpny.csfb.com>

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish.  Either there's a typo or you need
to unsimplify the problem a bit (or both).

As far as I can tell

res=[49995000.0]

is equivalent to 

res=[0]
for i in arange(10000):
  res[0]=res[0]+i

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+james.frohnhofer=csfb.com at python.org]On
> Behalf Of Darren Dale
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 10:37 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: question on list comprehensions
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I need to replace the following loop with a list comprehension:
> 
> res=[0]
> for i in arange(10000):
>  res[0]=res[0]+i
> 
> In practice, res is a complex 2D numarray. For this reason, 
> the regular
> output of a list comprehension will not work: constructing a 
> list of every
> intermediate result will result in huge hits in speed and memory.
> 
> I saw this article at ASPN:
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/204297
> 
> def thislist():
>     """Return a reference to the list object being constructed by the
>     list comprehension from which this function is called. Raises an
>     exception if called from anywhere else.
>     """
>     import sys
>     d = sys._getframe(1).f_locals
>     nestlevel = 1
>     while '_[%d]' % nestlevel in d:
>         nestlevel += 1
>     return d['_[%d]' % (nestlevel - 1)].__self__
> 
> Could the list comprehension include something like 
> thislist().pop(0), to be
> called when len(thislist)>1? (I think this could work, but am having
> trouble with the syntax.) Or is there a better way to 
> approach the problem?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Darren
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

==============================================================================
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==============================================================================



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 16:22:48 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:22:48 -0300
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
In-Reply-To: <1gl95vz.fq3m73hwtom8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410052233.16505629@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4427.1097075425.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl90d9.pdp4wylj1ihkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4435.1097083709.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl95vz.fq3m73hwtom8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d37090410061322104b2b4@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:18:40 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ... no big deal,
> not comparable to (e.g.) building up a string and then doing 'exec' on
> it (THAT _is_ sinful and bad and maybe will make Guido cry...;-).

I swear I'll not go down to this level ;-)
 
> To be honest I never really understood why you liked that one so much,
> apart from the fascinating possibilities it offers for delving into
> normally ignored details of 'class' statements' execution;-)

That was part of the fun ;-)
 
> Seriously: classes have one incredible syntax advantage when you expose
> them to users... users who write class statements get to write any gd
> code they like in a context where every localname created ends up in a
> dict, then your metaclass gets to process the dict, etc, etc.  In
> comparison, functions are fine, with keyword parameters, for the
> equivalent of assignment statements, i.e.,
> 
> class foo(subletWayToGetMetaclassOmega):
>     bar = 23
> 
> and
> 
> foo = factoryFunctionOmega(bar=23)
> 
> are roughly equivalent; but as soon as the body of 'class foo' starts
> having def statements, class statements, loops, etc, the factory
> function has a hard time keeping up.  This syntax advantage has little
> to do with the *intended* semantics of 'class' vs function calls, and is
> the root of most "metaclass abuse" I've seen (and perpetrated -- though
> not in production code...).

Well, I'm looking into it for a couple of reasons. One of them is
exactly this -- code inside a class is much easier to write and to
structure than similar code inside a def... specialy when it comes to
data declarations[1]. A def is pretty much limited to one level; with
classes, it's easy to 'nest' groups of data declarations, which make
it easier to build complex hierarchical stuff. The other reason is to
be able to build something related to C++ templates -- a factory that
produces customized versions of a class based on parameters, that may
include other classes. I *thought* that a purely class-based
templating would make it easier to understand and manage, specially if
the magic is done "behind the scenes". But I'm not so sure now.

[1] I think that this is the correct term, in this context... but I
may be wrong (again).

> But it doesn't seem to be what you're after, and a couple days ago I saw
> somebody else asking about a metaclass to be called directly (where a
> class statement _was_ clearly what they needed, IMHO), so there must be
> something more going on here... I think I'll nickname it "class
> struggle"... many people DO seem to be struggling with classes, these
> days...
> 
> 
> > c) neither of the above -- there must be a better way to do it.
> 
> ...must there...?  Maybe I'm being short-sighted (wouldn't be the first
> time), but I can't see.  If you could have your heart's desire, within
> the general framework of Python, how WOULD you code what you're after
> (which I'm still not entirely clear about)?  I mean, how would it look
> to the user -- how it looks like _inside_ is a relatively minor issue...
 
Well, I don't think that (c) applies. But I was afraid that other
people, coming with a fresh mental picture of the problem, could point
to other types of solution. That's what (c) really means.
 
> 
> Alex
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Tue Oct  5 06:35:55 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:35:55 GMT
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
In-Reply-To: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
References: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fOu8d.25552$H11.796740@twister1.libero.it>

Russell Nelson ha scritto:

I guess you could just use a shell like heredocument then:
foo << marker
string
marker

why invent something new?


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 14 08:31:19 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:31:19 -0400
Subject: Uploading an image file from a web form
In-Reply-To: <d3502feb.0410140426.295ee4af@posting.google.com>
References: <d3502feb.0410140426.295ee4af@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DNmdnVZU3aMK7PPcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>

Shufen wrote:
[snip question regarding uploading files via the web]

> Can someone help? Many thanks....

You haven't indicated what web framework you are using.
That is, what are you using to cause your Python code
to be executed on the server when the user clicks on
the "upload" button (or whatever it will be called) in
the web page?

If you haven't *got* a web framework, then the answer to
your question is "go get one". ;-)

If your next question is "which one should I get?", the
answer is probably "have you checked with Google yet?"...
There are many and frequent discussions about this topic
in the newsgroup, so the archives should help you out, and
there are also numerous web pages discussing the various
options.

-Peter


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 21 18:01:07 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:01:07 GMT
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
References: <mailman.5254.1098346524.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ZFQdd.8495$6q2.7811@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
	<1gm0q4l.vxnjpo1f6g9o6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4178296d.418013621@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:14:51 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>John Fabiani <jfabiani at yolo.com> wrote:
>
>> Great idea and about time.  Python needs some type of default SQL engine.  I
>> have not reviewed what you are doing but may I suggest you take a look at
>> what VFP did with it's built-in data engine.  VFP uses the concept of a
>> cursor along with many built-in commands/functions/statements to work with
>> the data.  
>> 
>> My only question is what happens when SQLLite becomes out of favor i.e. TK
>> is today?
>
>Same as what happens when BSDDB "becomes out of favor", or SAX, etc,
>etc.  Python either keeps supporting it (likely), moves it to a separate
>download rather than bundling it (sensible), or drops it (unlikely but
>not impossible) at some major release.  We're not talking about stuff
>that's particularly "fickle": Tkinter did its job excellently well for
>MANY years, after all, to take your same example.
>
ISTM there could be a useful compromise between inclusion and separate downloads.
I.e., useful addons could be included in the core distribution as proxy stubs
in an add-on package, so that you could interactively type e.g.,

    from addons import sqlite as sql

and if you had not previously done that, the stub would ask you if you'd
like to download and install the thing in question. You could cancel, or
proceed, perhaps with various options. E.g. PIL might let you exclude jpg
support if you didn't want it, and so forth. IIRC&UIAM the BSD ports system
has this kind of functionality -- i.e., instead of full packages, there's
automated download (or off CD) install info pre-packaged.

Options just to download and view release notes or to download docs only
for looking over before installing all might be useful sometimes also.

Like wise, there could be an option to install under addons or site-packages.
And I'm sure people would think of other handy stuff.

There would have to be security checks with md5's or pgp signatures etc.,
but IWT the aproach could be made to work. Official addons could live be
anywhere, even with multiple mirrors, and different components used by
higher level packages could have different urls, but the location urls, sizes, and
hashes would be registered at python.org, so a stub would go there to find
addon info for a particular version of python. This would also guarantee
compatibility (or a notice that no compatible set of required parts is available).

Just a thought.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 21 22:06:00 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 19:06:00 -0700
Subject: Cleanly end a thread with blocked i/o in win32?
References: <56b071ab.0410211035.440de0ef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9418be08.0410211806.5b24d3b4@posting.google.com>

jonathan.wright at gmail.com (Jon Wright) wrote in message news:<56b071ab.0410211035.440de0ef at posting.google.com>...
> Trying to work around the lack of pexpect for native windows python I
> had a play with os.popen2 and some threads. This looks promising
> enough for what I want to do, but I hit on a problem with getting the
> script to exit cleanly. Tried replacing popen with subprocess but I am
> still confused. Either it needs to be killed from the task manager, or
> I get a variety of different complaints and popping up "application
> error" windows. I managed to get it to stop with os.abort(), but this
> invites a complaint from windows about terminating in an unusual way.
> Closing the file descriptors of the child process leads to a crash and
> I think I should be sending a kill to the process, although I don't
> know how (please tell me).
> 
> Would any of you care to have a look at the code below and make
> suggestions for tidying it up properly? It also dies nastily if the
> child process terminates. Eventually I would like to fire off a
> program from a gui, supply input programmatically, depending upon the
> unpredicable questions the program might ask, and prompt the user if
> the child process asks something unknown. Also process the output into
> a graphical form so the user can change options and run the child
> again. Makes the crashing a bit of a problem! Entirely different
> approaches which can accomplish this task would also be very very
> welcome, I tried a telnet to localhost suggestion, but this was
> painfully slow on this windows xp machine (using "services for unix"
> telnet server). The communicate bit of subprocess only gives me one
> chance to talk to the process. Should I be inheriting from subprocess
> and editing the communicate method there?
> 
> Having googled extensively on this problem it seems that tidying up
> this code could be useful to others too?
> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> Jon
> ---
> import os,sys,time,subprocess
> from threading import Thread
> 
> out = ""  
> 
> class reader(Thread):
>    def __init__(self,file_to_read):
>       self.file_to_read=file_to_read
>       Thread.__init__(self)
>    def run(self):
>       global out
>       while 1:
>          i=self.file_to_read.read(1)
>          out+=i 
>          sys.stdout.write(i) # for debugging
> 
> class writer(Thread):
>    def __init__(self,file_to_write):
>       self.file_to_write=file_to_write
>       Thread.__init__(self)
>    def run(self):
>       global out
>       while 1:
>          i=sys.stdin.read(1) # for debugging 
>          out+=i 
>          self.file_to_write.write(i) 
> 
> if __name__=="__main__":
>    child = subprocess.Popen(sys.argv[1],
>                             stdin=subprocess.PIPE,
>                             stdout=subprocess.PIPE) 
>    # or: child.stdout,child.stdin = os.popen2(sys.argv[1])
>    r = reader(child.stdout)
>    w = writer(child.stdin)
>    r.start()
>    w.start()
>    while r.isAlive() and w.isAlive():
>        try:
>           time.sleep(10)
>        except:
>           print "\n=== in out now ===\n",out,"\n======"
>           break
>    print r.isAlive(),w.isAlive() # Who died, in or out??
>    time.sleep(1)
>    print r.isAlive(),w.isAlive() # Who died, in or out??
>    print "You fell off of the bottom of the script"

Just curiosity: why did you try using UNIX methods in win32?
To prove that windows isn't unix?


From andreas at kostyrka.org  Thu Oct  7 15:54:40 2004
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:54:40 +0200
Subject: hi...about HTMLparser
In-Reply-To: <761727b3.0410070953.44f66d23@posting.google.com>
References: <761727b3.0410070953.44f66d23@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041007195440.GB19428@kostyrka.org>

On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 10:53:35AM -0700, mike wrote:
> regards:
> 
> (1)could I use HTMLparser to delete some element 
>    and the element's content from a file?
Yes. If it makes sense depends upon your needs ;)

> (2)Is there a good document about how I can use the HTMLparser?
See: http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.4/

Andreas


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sun Oct 10 04:29:46 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 09:29:46 +0100
Subject: new to python
In-Reply-To: <9c3edc58.0410092134.8e5278a@posting.google.com>
References: <9c3edc58.0410092134.8e5278a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckartu$lat$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Chris Patton wrote:

> I need to make several user-defined objects for a program I'm making.
> I know that one way is to use the exec statement (i.e. exec
> 'raw_input() = "cheese"'), but it can get very visually cluttered at
> times.
> i.e. exec raw_input()+num+'={"I":'+b+','+am+':"just","fine":1}'

Hi Chris. Your question has been discussed by several people already the 
last time you answered it. Please do us the courtesy of reading those 
answers before repeating your question.

Also, my short answer to your question is: don't do that! I really have 
to question why you need to set variables in local or global scope 
rather than just setting items in a dictionary. Why?
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From psXdaXsilva at esotericaX.ptX  Sat Oct  9 21:32:28 2004
From: psXdaXsilva at esotericaX.ptX (Paulo da Silva)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 01:32:28 GMT
Subject: Init a table of functions
Message-ID: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>

How do I program something like the folowing program?
PYTHON claims it doesn't know about 'foo' when initializing K!
The only way I got this to work was doing the init of K in
the __init__ func. But this runs everytime for each object!
When using the name of the function without 'foo', I don't
know how to call it!

Thanks for any help.

#! /bin/env python
# -*- coding: iso-8859-15 -*-

class foo:
     def f1():
         print "f1"
     f1=staticmethod(f1)

     def f2():
         print "f2"
     f2=staticmethod(f2)

     K={"f1" : foo.f1, \
        "f1" : foo.f2  \
     }


def main():
     foo.K["f1"]()
     foo.K["f2"]()

if __name__ == "__main__":
     main()


From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Wed Oct  6 14:32:57 2004
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 11:32:57 -0700
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>	<cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<WOQ8d.32865$Z14.12045@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0410061032.1318794f@posting.google.com>

Speaking of multiprocessor architectures, here's a link I ran across
last month:

http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/jonathan/20040910#the_difference_between_humans_and

It describes Sun's next chip, the Niagra project, a single chip with 8
processor cores each capable of running 4 threads, for a total of 32
threads.  And you can bet they're coming up with multichip servers. 
This is actually technology from a company that Sun bought, and now
they're kind of staking the future of the company on it. (Especially
given the Millenium chip fiasco.)  But they're not alone by any
strech, AMD says it'll be shipping a multicore opteron next year, and
Intel is already out the HT technology, and they'll be doing
multicores soon too.  The future is here, we should be prepared.

------ Corey



Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<WOQ8d.32865$Z14.12045 at news.indigo.ie>...

> 
> As I've already stated, I believe the benefits and trade-offs of the GIL 
> are arguable either way when there is a small number of processors 
> involved, e.g. 2 or less. But if chip makers are already producing chips 
> with 2 execution pipelines, then you can be sure it won't too be long 
> before they are shipping units with 4, 8, 16, 32, etc, execution 
> pipelines. As this number increases, the GIL will increasingly become a 
> restrictive bottleneck.
> ally be running python code.
>


From behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de  Mon Oct 18 11:42:15 2004
From: behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:42:15 +0200
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5117.1098111477.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5117.1098111477.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl0o0i$esd$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>

Carlos Ribeiro schrieb:
> def walk(self):
>    """generator-based recursive tree traversal"""
>    yield child
>    for child in childs:
>         transfer child.walk()
> 
> It's quite weird -- a generator plus a direct flow-of-execution
> transfer. It's not a goto, its not a co-routine... It requires a new
> keyword ('transfer', in this case), which _is_ a real problem --
> something like this can't be lightly proposed. In this case, it's just
> a thought experiment, at this point; nothing serious, and far from a
> proposal.


I know what it feels like. I had to implement the same thing for a 
recursive parser once - looks somewhat inefficient to iterate over a 
iterator only for yielding the iterator's results...

Maybe you know the itertools module?

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/itertools-functions.html

It has some nice functions that can make this sort of code more readable 
(and maybe even more efficient). You may find itertoold.chain especially 
useful.

Stefan


From jerf at jerf.org  Fri Oct  8 13:53:24 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:53:24 GMT
Subject: Desactivating Python keywords and built-in functions
References: <f06d8508.0410080645.17341a82@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.08.14.31.53.31098@jerf.org>

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 07:45:12 -0700, Andr? Roberge wrote:

> In short:
> Is there a simple way to desactivate Python keywords and built-in
> keywords [e.g. eval()]
> 
> Longer description:
> I want to use a subset of Python as an embedded language and don't
> want the users to have access to the rest of the language.   One
> approach I thought of using would be something along the following
> lines:

Others have commented that many others have tried this and not succeeded.

Maybe another tack: Is there a specific reason that you don't want people
using "eval"? Some specific object you don't want used, some specific
capability invoked? Maybe the root problem can be addressed in another way.

If it is just to prevent them from confusing themselves, I'd suggest the
"don't document it" solution :-)


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 09:30:55 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:30:55 -0300
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0410040223.4aa4f24b@posting.google.com>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4231.1096844832.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410040223.4aa4f24b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904100406303e1e15d@mail.gmail.com>

On 4 Oct 2004 03:23:32 -0700, Michele Simionato
<michele.simionato at gmail.com> wrote:
> Notice that there already valuable resources on this stuff.
> Unfortunately, after several minutes of searching on www.python.org
> I didn't find them (which may denote that something is wrong with me
> or with python.org). Search for new style classes,
> Shalab <last name which spelling I cannot remember> and may be
> even Dave Kuhlman <where the spelling is probably wrong>.

I've read all the tutorials and resources pointed there from the Wiki
as a starting point. All do a good job (some better than others) at
explaining a lot of the technical issues. In fact, I've read both
articles you and David Mertz have written, and found them great. The
standard documentation is unfortunately up to this standard -- I've
tried to find comprehensive references for it inside Python's
reference manuals to no avail. This is something that really needs to
be done there.

But the problem, in my particular case, was not with metaclasses per
se, but with understanding the 'big picture'. With all respect for
you, David Mertz, Alex Martelli, and all the others who helped to
guide me through this (steep) learning curve -- you've done a great
job, and I have to thank you all -- but most of the documentation
seems to start 'from the inside'; in other words, from the perspective
of someone that thoroughly understands how Python works, specially
regarding the handling of declarations (classes, modules and
functions), and that also knows what metaclasses are good for. For
people that come from a different background (such as me), some of the
explanations fail to 'ring a bell', which usually only happens after a
lot of practical attempts and failures.

This very thread, including the last comments from myself and Alex
Martelli, is specially illuminating in this respect. It took me a
while to figure out the obvious -- that there are not 'real' class
declarations in Python, at least as far as they do exist in C++ or
Delphi (the languages that I worked with before Python). (btw, I
really don't know Java, but I feel confident to say that Java is
probably in the C++ camp here also).

Figuring out the obvious tend to be a big barrier to the learning
process. For experienced writers, it tends to be a problem also,
because it's so obvious that one feels compelled to leave it out of
the explanation. But that's the issue here -- the fact that what I'm
freely calling 'class declarations' in Python are not really
declarations (in the same sense of C++, for example), are just
executable code like anything else; and that only as a cleverly
designed side effect (*) a new class (or module) is built out from the
results of the code that was executed.

(*) I beg your pardon, that's just a figure of mine that shows how do
people with different mental models understand it when they finally
'get' it.

I have developed my own mental model on this, and it tells me that
classes in Python are declared in a two-step process: code execution,
and class creation. As I said, this may be obvious to Python insiders
(obvious to the point where it's natural and doesn't deserve any
special explanation), but I assume that it isn't, given:

a) my own trouble to understand the full implications of it;
b) the type of questions that pop up in this group;
c) the surprised look that even old-time pythoneers do when they see
code such as the 'def __metaclass__(...):' inside a class, or similar
hacks.

It may be the case that, as I work more with metaclasses, I will tend
towards a more natural vision of the process, and some of the nuances
that are now relevant to me may become a thing of the past. But I
think that I'm not alone on this, and that is the real problem faced
by many newcomers to Python.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Oct  8 01:41:10 2004
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 05:41:10 GMT
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted Data
	Chunk Efficiently
References: <ba1e306f.0410050212.3b592313@posting.google.com>
	<2sgc66F1enc5nU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<ba1e306f.0410071919.7defa4a9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2smnjlF1m301gU1@uni-berlin.de>

Jane Austine <janeaustine50 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for reminding me Knuth's words. However, there are other
> information on each records, and the whole list could grow upto
> 10MB~100MB.
> 
> Another problem is, the list update action could take a long time and
> big memory. The list could shrink and expand. Do I have to sort them
> all in memory and then update the textfile _everytime_ it's changed?

There are so many ways.  Textfile is one.  SQL is another.  Only you can
answer that question.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada


From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Oct 21 15:23:39 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:23:39 GMT
Subject: protect resources (images) within a pygame-program
References: <2289a427.0410211043.357032cf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.21.15.22.49.980629@jerf.org>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:43:23 -0700, benjamin wrote:
> I wander whether there is any possibility to compile a bunch of
> resources for a program, like images and soundfiles into a package
> like, let?s say "game.dat", so they do?t fly around in the programs
> folder

Valid; I'd suggest zipping them up and using the "zipfile" module,
standard w/ Python 2.3.

> und can be edited by everyone.

It is unclear to me whether you *want* them editable, or if you don't.
(Does the "not" in "do't" [sic] apply to just the first clause, or both?)

If you *want* them editable, zip files are great because they are
reasonably standard, and you can just unzip them, make the changes, and
zip them up. For extra bonus points, have your program look for the
unzipped resources *first*, then look in the zip file. That way, you can
just unzip and make the changes, zipping only for final distribution.

If you *don't* want them editable, that's impossible. All local resources
can always be edited. Even the "big guys" haven't solved that problem.



From chablinski at internetwork.net  Tue Oct 12 10:59:31 2004
From: chablinski at internetwork.net (Clayton Hablinski)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:59:31 -0500
Subject: help with excel
Message-ID: <01a801c4b06c$141ba890$0564a8c0@corp.NetworkOperator.com>

I am pretty new to python (which you will see by the code I am about to paste in here), and I am needing help with a script that will gather a cell's contents and use that information to create new data in a new cell. I need this done for an entire column. I can do it with one cell at a time, but what is the point in doing that? 

The part I am having trouble with is being able to increment rows. And now with my script that I have it just runs in some loop that brings my machine to the ground.

Here is what I have:

#RBOC-NonRBOC rates
#RBOC is .0029 and nRBOC is .0042
from win32com.client import Dispatch
xlApp = Dispatch ("Excel.Application")
def getCell(sheet, row ,col):
    "Get value of one cell"
    sheet = xlApp.ActiveWorkbook.ActiveSheet
    return sheet.Cells(row, col).Value
def setCellNonRBOC(sheet, row, col):
    "set value of one cell"
    sheet = xlApp.ActiveWorkbook.ActiveSheet
    sheet.Cells(row, col).Value = ".0042"
def setCellRBOC(sheet, row, col):
    "set value of one cell"
    sheet = xlApp.ActiveWorkbook.ActiveSheet
    sheet.Cells(row, col).Value = ".0029"
Range = xlApp.ActiveWorkbook.ActiveSheet.Range("B2:B5")
sheet = xlApp.ActiveWorkbook.ActiveSheet
row = 2
while len(Range.Value) > 0:
    getCell(sheet, row, 2)
    if sheet.Cells.Value == 'Non-RBOC':
        setCellNonRBOC(sheet, row, 8)
        row = row + 1
    elif sheet.Cells.Value == 'RBOC':
        setCellRBOC(sheet, row, 8)
        row = row + 1

The script needs to analyze cell B2 through cell B51290 (the entire range). And then for each cell it analyzes put either ".0029" or ".0042" in column 8.

Help me please!!!

Clayton 
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From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct  3 03:11:50 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 00:11:50 -0700
Subject: ssl
References: <mailman.4008.1096375950.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <88e23673.0410022311.6eecce45@posting.google.com>

> M2Crypto. since i have little time to dwell on this part, i am wondering
> if having an ssl server in java with a client in Python (using ssl from
> socket) be okay?

Whatever you can get to work and maintain, I'm sure is fine.  No one
here minds either way.


> does anyone see any potential problems with that?

Older versions of the Python SSL library didn't support some SSL
protocol variants, and there was a long-standing bug with asynchronous
SSL sockets.


> and would it be possible for me to hack around socket and add the
> certificate verification bit myself? is that even allowed and is it
> possible?

Yeah, hack Python as you see fit.  You are not required to release
your changes if you don't want to, but feel free to give back if
desired.


 - Josiah


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 26 00:08:19 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:08:19 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410251937.5355a8c7@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410251937.5355a8c7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <P9kfd.18439$SW3.13985@fed1read01>

kartik wrote:

> Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote in message news:<Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA at giganews.com>...
> 
>>kartik wrote:
>>
[yada yada]
> 
> maybe, why not use an automated test built-in 2 the language? i get it
> 4 free.
> 
> -kartik
Perhaps you'd like Intel to produce a CPU where the overflow limit can 
be arbitrarily set?

I'm getting a bit 6 of this nonsense. Maybe I 8 something that didn't 
agree with me. I of10 do that. You've 1. 4give me.

regards
  S3ve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From dlrush-nospam at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 20:00:44 2004
From: dlrush-nospam at gmail.com (D. Rush)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:00:44 -0700
Subject: wxPython - problem dynamically adding widgets?
References: <37f621d3.0410041214.305eb3e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2didndileqMTf_zcRVn-qA@adelphia.com>

Here is some code that uses the BoxSizer to dynamically manage controls on a
form.  The magic code might me the SetSizer() and SetAutoLayout() methods.

In any event, this might provide you with a working sample to base your
design on.

http://www.koders.com/python/fidDE508AF830808B1C7455F149BCC892198250E8A8.aspx?s=wxpython+BoxSizer


"Fazan" <dr_burrito at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37f621d3.0410041214.305eb3e9 at posting.google.com...
> I'm trying to create a wxPython-based application with a list of
> arbitrary widgets (in this case, progress bars).  I want my
> application to dynamically add or delete widgets from the list based
> on some user action.  I first tried using a BoxSizer, and dynamically
> instantiated the new widgets and added them to the sizer at the right
> time in my application.  This caused my app to hang every time.  Only
> widgets which I created before displaying the main frame were working,
> but subsequent widget creation caused the hanging behavior.
>
> I've also played around with ListCtrl (with the LC_REPORT style) and
> Grid objects to achieve the desired result with no success.  ListCtrls
> allow text and images to be added; I had hoped to implement my own
> progress bars (instead of using the Gauge class) by resizing images in
> a list.  But the support for images in ListCtrls seems quite limited;
> the image can only exist at the far left side of the list and is
> limited to some fixed size.  In order to implement a progress bar I
> would need more control over the placement and size of the image.
> Although Grids support some additional controls such as Choice and
> CheckBox, they don't even support images and using a Grid seems
> awfully heavyweight.
>
> The sizer approach seems pretty straightforward but I can't figure out
> why the app always locks up.  Anyone have ideas about how to solve
> this?  TIA




From sheetal_p at persistent.co.in  Wed Oct 20 03:24:40 2004
From: sheetal_p at persistent.co.in (Sheetal)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 00:24:40 -0700
Subject: form gives error when user submit "'" (single quote) in the form
Message-ID: <30e26235.0410192324.39454f73@posting.google.com>

Hello

I have a text area form element in my HTML form. When a user enters
the "'" in the form the form throws an error when i use the value to
enter in the database.

Please help


From jbors at mail.ru  Tue Oct 26 16:40:34 2004
From: jbors at mail.ru (Dmitry Borisov)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:40:34 +0400
Subject: speed up mp3
In-Reply-To: <417ea290$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <E1CMY7O-000Edh-00.jbors-mail-ru@f7.mail.ru>

From: "Ivo Woltring" <TheDolphin at ivonet.nl>
To: python-list at python.org
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:16:31 +0200
Subject: speed up mp3

> 
> Dear Pythoneers,
> 
> I have a blind friend who listens a lot to audio books. A lot of the
> material available today is in mp3 format.
> For ages i have been looking for a mp3-player with speed control and haven't
> found any.
> Next option: write one yourself.
> And I have ;-). with the PyMedia module.
> It is an only sleightly adjusted version of one of the examples.
> 
> Now the Question:
> Is it possible to re-Encode mp3 files with this faster speed as to make them
> portable to e.g. Pocket PC (without python interpreter) or standard MP3
> player (hardware)?
> 
> The files have to play at about 1.5 times the normal speed.
> 
> I tried it with PyMedia but I only get errors. Any help would be
> appreciated.

You cannot directly play sound at the sample rate you want. Soundcards supports only fixed sample rates.
Here is the example that works with resampler:
( from aplayer.py )
-------
      print 'Opening sound with %d channels -> %s' % ( r.channels, snds[ card ][ 'name' ] )
      snd= sound.Output( r.sample_rate, r.channels, sound.AFMT_S16_LE, card )
      resampler= sound.Resampler( (r.sample_rate,r.channels), (r.sample_rate/1.5,r.channels) )
    if r:
      data= resampler.resample( r.data )
      snd.play( data )
--------

Unfortunately there is a bug in current resample() which makes holes in the sound. I have fixed that and it will be in release 1.2.3.0 next week.
Dmitry/




From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct 29 00:46:35 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 04:46:35 GMT
Subject: comparing multiple copies of terabytes of data?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.29.01.27.44.977637@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
References: <mailman.5446.1098734965.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Y6adnT9_jr6Ny-PcRVn-hQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.5517.1098807918.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.29.01.27.44.977637@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <LWjgd.10419$KJ6.5748@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Dan Stromberg wrote:
> that I hope to use correctly the first time, in verifying that our three
> copies of a 3+ terrabyte collection of data...  well, that the first copy

Not trying to be too much of a pedant, but the prefix is "tera"
not "terra".

> The URL is http://dcs.nac.uci.edu/~strombrg/verify.html

To make up for that pedentry, here's some pointers

	for i in range(len(dirlist)):
		fullfilename = os.path.join(dirlist[i],filename)
		os.chdir(dirlist[i])
		statbufs.append(os.lstat(fullfilename))

could be rewritten as

   for dirname in dirlist:
     fullfilename = os.path.join(dirname, filename)
     os.chdir(dirname)
     statbufs.append(os.lstat(fullfilename)

BTW, do you really need that chdir?  You've already got the full
filename so the current directory doesn't make a difference.  Unless
you allow relative directories there ... ?

   for i in range(len(dirlist)-1):
     for field in [stat.ST_GID, stat.ST_UID, stat.ST_MODE, stat.ST_SIZE]:
       if statbufs[i][field] != statbufs[i+1][field]:
         return 0

Can dirlist ever be empty?

You just want to check if all elements in statbufs are the
same, right?  I prefer this style

first = statbufs[0]
for statbuf in statbufs[1:]:
   for field in (stat.ST_GID, stat.ST_UID, stat.ST_MODE, stat.ST_SIZE]:
     if first[field] != statbuf[field]:
       return 0

because I find the chaining-if comparing i and i+1 harder
to understand.  Even if this is one line longer.


def main():
   try:
     (list,dirs) = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:],'n:')
   except:
     usage()
   if len(dirs) == 0:
     usage()

Have you tried to see if your usage works when you give it
the wrong parameters?  It will print out the error message
then give a NameError because dirs doesn't exist.  Try this
instead

def main():
   try:
     (list,dirs) = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:],'n:')
   except getopt.error, err:
     usage()
     raise SystemExit(str(err))

This will only catch getopt errors and it will raise
a system exit so the 1) it prints out the text of the
getopt error (helpful for users to know what went wrong)
and 2) it sets the program's exit code to 1.


	for dir in dirs:
		os.chdir(dir)
	os.chdir(dirs[0])


Again, I don't understand the chdir calls here.  Perhaps
I should have read the rest of this thread?

If you want to see if that directory exists, and want
to do it in this style, you should return to the original
directory.  Why?  Because this will fail if someone
specifies relative directories on the command-line.

	origdir = os.getcwd()
	for dir in dirs:
		os.chdir(dir)
		os.chdir(origdir)
	os.chdir(dirs[0])

I still find it suspicious.  I almost never use chdir
in my code because it can really confuse libraries
that expect relative paths to always work during the
lifetime of a program.


main()


That should be

if __name__ == "__main__":
     main()


because it lets you import the file as well as use it
as a mainline program.  Why is that useful?  It makes
regression tests a lot easier to write.  To help that
I'll also do

if __name__ == "__main__":
     main(sys.argv)

then make it so that the main function takes an argv.

def main(argv):
   ...

Again, it makes it easier to write tests that way.


Hmmm, or is this response also showing me to be a pedant?

:)

Best wishes,

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From firemoth at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 13:37:32 2004
From: firemoth at gmail.com (Timothy Fitz)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:37:32 -0400
Subject: ZeroDivisionError: float division (baby steps)
In-Reply-To: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19CC2@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>
References: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19CC2@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>
Message-ID: <972ec5bd04102710372470cfc0@mail.gmail.com>

> Hi , Im new to Python can you help.
> Trying to create a program that  I can entered  10 random numbers and get an
> average at the end of a for loop. 
> Stumped 

To truly debug your program, you would have to paste the source here,
but in general the error you are getting means exactly what it says:
You're dividing by zero. Most likely when you find your average,
whatever you're dividing by is zero.


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Oct  5 19:01:50 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:01:50 -0700
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <2sgi8iF1l9okoU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>	<cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2sgi8iF1l9okoU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <10m69rkafcpmfa6@corp.supernews.com>

Daniel Dittmar wrote:

> Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
>
>> So, IMHO, there are basically the following design decisions:
>> GIL: large granularity
>> MSL: (many small locks) would slow down the overall execution of Python
>>      programs.
>> MSLu: (many small locks, unsafe) inacceptable because it would change
>>       Python experience ;)
>
>
> You forgot GarbageCollection instead of reference counting.


That's an orthogonal issue.  GC/Refcounting may depend on the 
data-locking scheme being thread-safe, but even if one used a GC scheme 
that was completely thread-safe regardless of locking, you'd still need 
data-locking to safely use objects in your own code.  The fact that I 
can be completely confident that the memory space pointed to by a, b, 
and c won't be deallocated behind my back says nothing about whether 
another worker thread may change b in between when I test it and when I 
use it.  This means that in a free-threaded environment (without GIL), 
given

    a = b + c
    d = b + c
    assert (a == d)

I cannot guarantee that the assertion is true, unless I explicitly lock 
all the variables involved -- four locking operations plus four 
unlocking operations.  Locking the local namespace won't work, because 
any of those could be a global reference or a cross-module reference or 
whatever.  One could, I suppose, explicitly acquire/release a 
GIL-granularity lock (process-global "critical section", in essence), 
but that leaves the possibility of mistakenly unprotected variable 
causing a segfault -- again, a violation of one of Python's design 
constraints.  And I don't think that it's practical to have the 
interpreter infer where it'd be safe to release the GIL.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 18:20:49 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:20:49 +0200
Subject: question on list comprehensions
References: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<560b81a4.0410150936.573bb6c4@posting.google.com>
	<1glsu7d.6cafdj1vxh4ebN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4172e68d.73213084@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1gltsqx.3sh0uedtr3f0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
   ...
> >>     i = 0
> >>     while i < 5000000:
> >>         res [0] = res [0] + i
> >>         i = i + 1
> >> 
> >> Takes less than 2 seconds on my laptop.
> >
> >Sure, this is fine, but low-level twiddling with indices isn't all that
> >nice.  A compact alternative such as
> >
> >    res[0] = sum(xrange(5000000))
   ...
> As I'm sure you know, sum(xrange(n)) is pretty predictable:

Of course (Gauss is said to have proven that theorem in primary school,
to solve just such a summation which the teacher had posed to the class
to get -- the teacher hoped -- some longer time of quiet;-).

If I recall correctly, you can generally find closed-form solutions for
summations of polynomials in i.  But I had assumed that the poster meant
his code to stand for the summation of some generic nonpolynomial form
in i, and just wanted to contrast his lower-level approach with a
higher-level and more concise one -- essentially teaching Python, not
number theory;-).


Alex


From arun.sivakumaran at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 23:23:47 2004
From: arun.sivakumaran at gmail.com (Arun)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 20:23:47 -0700
Subject: running a python script in the background
Message-ID: <371349cd.0410291923.a0bc96b@posting.google.com>

Hi,

This is a scripting question, but since I am writing the script in
python I am posting this question here:

I have a python script that runs a simulator (that was written in c++,
so I use the system() function to run the simulator) over a list of
config files. I want the python script to itself run as well as start
the simulations totally in the background (the simulations run for a
day or two, so basically I want to start them in background and log
off).

The structure of script is somewhat like this:
--------------------------------

Create the config files

Loop through the list of config files:
     system("simulator configfile");

---------------------------------

Now if I start the script in the background with "script.py &", it
doesn't work. I figure the reason is the system() call spawns the
simulator in the foreground.

If I change the system call to system("simulator configfile &"), then
the script will spawn off the simulator with the config files all at
once.

Is there a way I can make this all run in the background, while at the
same time ensuring that only one instance of the simulator is running?

Thanks!,
Arun


From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Wed Oct 13 12:17:10 2004
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (GE Infrastructure))
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:17:10 -0400
Subject: String manipulation advice needed.
Message-ID: <CE90A4CF2E5E9C4890AE5D9D8A5EFAE3032CCC22@CINMLVEM10.e2k.ad.ge.com>

What is the easiest way of getting this information out of a string:

foo = "My number 70 is what I want to parse"  => 70
foo = "My info {info} between the curly brackets is what I want to parse" => {info}
foo = "My  info between [hello world] is what I want to parse" => [hello world]

At this moment my way to go is splitting the strings in substring, and do different checks on these substrings like:
- try: int(substring)
- substring.find('{') or substring.find('[')

Works but.. my guess is that it can be way more smarter, I must miss a strong library that can help me in simplifying the job.

Thanks,
Vincent


-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+vincent.raaijmakers=ge.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+vincent.raaijmakers=ge.com at python.org]On
Behalf Of Duncan Booth
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:54 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: pyAlbum


Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at nospam.uci.edu> wrote in 
news:c1tgot$e2$1 at news.service.uci.edu:

> 
> Some fairly rudimentary fact-checking would have prevented the 
> errors/oversights listed above.

A few more:

Slide 17: 'Tuples are enclosed in parentheses'

The commas make the tuple, not the parentheses. The first example could 
equally be written:

   myTuple = 1, 4, 5

Parentheses are only required to remove ambiguity (or for empty tuples).

Slide 21, it is worth pointing out the weakness of '{', '}' which is that 
the parenthese you think match up by looking at the block structure aren't 
necessarily the ones that do match: as in the example given where the last 
'}' actually closes the else block.

The 'if' statement shows the full range if..elif..else. It would be 
consistent to mention the else clause on while and for loops also.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From theller at python.net  Thu Oct 21 07:18:54 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:18:54 +0200
Subject: building Python on solaris
Message-ID: <fz48nwtd.fsf@python.net>

I'm trying to build Python on the sourceforge compile farm's solaris
platform.  ./configure fails with this error message:

x86-solaris1:~/python/dist/src$ ./configure  
checking MACHDEP... sunos5
checking EXTRAPLATDIR... 
checking for --without-gcc... no
checking for --with-cxx=<compiler>... no
checking for c++... c++
checking for C++ compiler default output file name... a.out
checking whether the C++ compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C++ compiled programs.
If you meant to cross compile, use `--host'.
See `config.log' for more details.

And config.log has this:

configure:1804: checking whether the C++ compiler works
configure:1810: ./a.out
ld.so.1: ./a.out: fatal: libstdc++.so.5: open failed: No such file or directory
./configure: line 1: 29455 Killed                  ./$ac_file
configure:1813: $? = 137
configure:1822: error: cannot run C++ compiled programs.
If you meant to cross compile, use `--host'.
See `config.log' for more details.

So, it seems a c++ library is missing.  I assume the C++ compiler isn't
really needed to build Python - can I somehow run configure so that this
test is skipped?

Thanks,

Thomas


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 16 08:34:30 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:34:30 +0200
Subject: Some notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glm9eg.1yldhpvtdfww2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416fee05$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <1glr5vz.s10y5ympbao9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Scott David Daniels <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> > [lotsa stuff I like]
> >>>- The functional IF seems interesting, like:
> >>>if(cond, code1, code2) ... (Or ... a different syntax, [allowing elif])
> >>Many variants have been proposed over the years, but none have ever made
> >>it in.
> > I think generators could get us close to this kind of thing (in Py3k).
> > 
> > They'd have to sprout a new method 'skip', similar to 'next' but defined
> > to not evaluate the argument of the next yield. 
> That seems pretty tough to define.  for a generator like:
>      def agen():
>          source = open('somedatafile.txt')
>          for i in range(1000):
>              source.seek(4 * i**2 + 33 * i + 52)
>              line = source.readline()
>              if line.startswith('magic:'):
>                  yield line[6:]
>          source.close()
> 
> What computation would "skip the evaluation of the next yield" avoid?

Just the 'line[6:]' slicing, for definiteness.  I don't see anything
hard to define about it.  Just conceptually turn each 'yield XXX' into:
    if _must_skip_next_yield: yield None
    else: yield XXX
with local flag _must_skip_next_yield being automatically set to False
when .next() is called on the iterator object, set to True when .skip()
is called.
    

> > ...  Such functions as lisp's cond might then easily be implemented:
> > 
> > def cond(@_args):
> >     for test in _args:
> >         if test: return _args.next()
> >         else: _args.skip()
> 
> what would be different between this and:
> 
>  > def cond(@_args):
>  >     for test in _args:
>  >         if test: return _args.next()
>  >         else: _args.next()

Your alternative evaluates every item in the _args iterator, and thus is
completely useless for cond's "guarding" purposes.  E.g.,

inverse = cond(x, 1.0/x, True, None)

would raise a ZeroDivisionError under your alternative, would just set
inverse to None under my proposal.

 
> I just don't understand the semantics of .skip().

Maybe it was too obvious to me so I failed to specify it in detail.

An example iterator that just does selective evaluation in a sequence:

def someof(sequence):
    for i in xrange(len(sequence)):
        if _must_skip_next_yield: yield None
        else: yield sequence[i]

with the same semantics for the special flag _must_skip_next_yield.
Alternatively, if a sequence's iterator also implemented skip:

def someof(iterable):
    it = iter(iterable)
    assert has_attr(it, 'skip')
    while True:
        if _must_skip_next_yield: yield it.skip()
        else: yield it.next()

this would be essentially a "no-op" wrapper of iterable, essentially
identical to iter(iterable), and I'm just showing it to further
illustrate the intended semantics of 'skip'.

The iterator over arguments, which I propose, could not be implemented
in Python today (Python today has no way to collect yet-unevaluated
arguments).  I do believe that the C interpreter would need few changes
to implement it (what syntax to use to signal it being the one
contentious part), and even fewer to accept a .skip method on generators
and use it to set a local variable _must_skip_next_yield in the
generator's frame (not particularly useful, I believe -- not all
iterators would have to be skippable, and, unless strong use cases
emerge, normal generators might well be deemed nonskippable ones).


Alex


From jezequiel at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 04:54:26 2004
From: jezequiel at gmail.com (Justin Ezequiel)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:54:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: gantt charts with python
References: <clomrb$hpk$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <loom.20041028T104642-769@post.gmane.org>

Andreas Kaiser <akaiser <at> vocote.de> writes:
> is there a module to create gantt charts?

google gives several hits

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gantt+chart+python

My boss asked me the same question a while back and I gave him the google hits.

Can you try a few of the links and report back what works best for you?

My boss might ask me to create such charts in the future and am hoping you 
could save me some time evaluating what's available.

Please CC me in your reply as I am not subscribed.




From rkern at ucsd.edu  Mon Oct  4 03:59:56 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 00:59:56 -0700
Subject: Python-Matlab extensions: Comparisons?
In-Reply-To: <uhu1m0t4euvekl61ilengepdhuettvmutr@4ax.com>
References: <uhu1m0t4euvekl61ilengepdhuettvmutr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cjqvuh$sg5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Johannes Eble wrote:
> Hello Python community,
> 
> I have looked for a Python extension to bring Python nearer to Matlab.
> I am interested to do as much as possible in Python and to replace
> Matlab as much as possible. Now I have found several extensions, i.e.
> 
> Matplotlib, SciPy, PyMatrix, and MatPy.
> 
> How do they compare to each other?
> 
> 
> PyMatrix
> (http://www3.sympatico.ca/cjw/PyMatrix/Doc/PyMatrixPackage.html)
>  seems to obsolete MatPy (http://matpy.sourceforge.net/), but both
> seem to concentrate on Matrix features only.
> 
> Matplotlib specialises in 2d plotting capabilities, I am not sure if
> it builds upon Gnuplot.py.

It does not.

> SciPy seems to be the most general Matlab-like solution so it's
> probably the way to go for me.
 >
 > Any advice?

I'm not terribly familiar with PyMatrix or MatPy, but I will 
enthusiastically recommend the use of SciPy and Matplotlib together. 
SciPy provides a wide range of  computational capabilities, and 
Matplotlib provides a good interface for interactive plotting.

Be sure to look at IPython, an excellent interactive shell for Python. 
It has special support for Matplotlib.

http://ipython.scipy.org

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Thu Oct 28 14:06:12 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:06:12 -0000
Subject: Data::Dumper for Python
References: <opsgkj8cih074qab@news.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <slrnco2d8k.kgh.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <opsgkj8cih074qab at news.singnet.com.sg>, Edward wijaya wrote:
> Is there any equivalent of it
> in Python?

Take a look at the "pprint" module. Also, it's worth noting that the Python
interpreter prints representations of data structures all the time, no
library required:

>>> x = [{'a': a, 'b': b} for a in range(2) for b in range(3)]
>>> x
[{'a': 0, 'b': 0}, {'a': 0, 'b': 1}, {'a': 0, 'b': 2}, {'a': 1, 'b': 0},
{'a': 1, 'b': 1}, {'a': 1, 'b': 2}]

Read up on the __repr__ and __str__ methods to understand how this mechanism
works and how to extend it to your own objects.

-- 
 .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
        "talking about music is like dancing about architecture."


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 08:57:04 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:57:04 -0400
Subject: EVIL AMERICAN GOVT (aka FBI) is full of SADISTS and PERVERTS
In-Reply-To: <9418be08.0410130415.4df4815a@posting.google.com>
References: <11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0@posting.google.com>
	<278de0e.0410101007.48dbb21e@posting.google.com>
	<FdOdnV7flNYAZfTcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>
	<9418be08.0410130415.4df4815a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4YednaJTn9GCu_DcRVn-iQ@powergate.ca>

Elbert Lev wrote:
> Peter L Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<FdOdnV7flNYAZfTcRVn-pQ at powergate.ca>...
> 
>>Neuruss wrote:
>>
>>>After reading carefully this message, I came to the conclusion that it
>>>is a little bit off topic.
>>
>>Other than the parts about "SADISTS and PERVERTS", what portion
>>was *on* topic?  ;-)
>>
>>-Peter
> 
> Bad joke! Let's NOT talk politics here. Let's talk programming.

Elbert, please use the "kill" feature of your news reader if
you mind the odd diversionary bit of humour.  Actually, if
you used that feature to begin with, you wouldn't even have
seen my follow-up (as I hope was the case with most people).

-Peter


From http  Fri Oct  8 19:25:06 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 08 Oct 2004 16:25:06 -0700
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
	<4165ad9a$0$44853$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
	<6f402501.0410080622.2343540d@posting.google.com>
	<41671917$0$44845$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
Message-ID: <7xekk8dc8d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Michael Sparks <zathras at thwackety.com> writes:
> Suppose the following user groups:
>    * Refuse all cookies - can't use cookies to track, IP isn't 100%
>      reliable.
>    * Users accept all cookies, don't care - ideal candidates for sampling
>    * Users generally have cookies enabled, but don't like being tracked.

There are some users who block cookies, but they're rare enough that
using cookies is more reliable than using IP addresses.  Also, if
you're just looking at page views, you don't need persistent cookies,
just session cookies.

Another thing you can do is put a cookie-like tag in the actual URL
(visit Amazon and click around a few times to see how that's done).
But that's not reliable either.  It's especially bad when some
retailer puts a shopping cart ID into the url.  Then some user posts
to a BBS or newsgroup, "hey I got this great deal on a <whatever> at
<url>".  Other users click on the url and get the original user's
shopping cart.


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 10:57:39 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 07:57:39 -0700
Subject: generating emails from Python
References: <4edc17eb.0410070159.1b9e670f@posting.google.com>
	<ck37il$v0j$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410070657.7cfe6f79@posting.google.com>

Benjamin Niemann <b.niemann at betternet.de> wrote in message news:<ck37il$v0j$1 at online.de>...
> Michele Simionato wrote:
> > Is it possible, using email.MIMEMessage, to generate an email with
> > both HTML and plain text content, in such a way that:
> > 1) it is displayed as HTML if the email client recognizes HTML;
> > 2) it is displayed as plain text if the email client is HTML impaired?
> > 
> > I realize that the answer is most probably no, but one can always hope
> yep, you can:
> 
>      outer = MIMEMultipart("alternative")
>      outer['Subject'] = subject
>      outer['To'] = email_to
>      outer['From'] = email_from
>      outer.preamble = 'You will not see this in a MIME-aware mail reader.\n'
>      # To guarantee the message ends with a newline
>      outer.epilogue = ''
> 
>      part = MIMEText(your_plain_message, "plain", "iso-8859-1")
>      outer.attach(part)
> 
>      part = MIMEText(your_html_message, "html", "iso-8859-1")
>      outer.attach(part)

Thank you! I guess I was missing the "alternative" option.
It seems to work, at least I tried it with Pine and Mozilla mail, 
I will do further checking.


            Michele Simionato


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 16 06:17:33 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:17:33 +0200
Subject: get list of callable methods
References: <20041014184217.24030.951151985.divmod.quotient.476@ohm>
	<mailman.4967.1097781144.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glps5q.opuqk5pjn96dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>     >>   __all__ is the best indicator.  Since not all modules define
>     >> it, though, inspect.getsourcefile() is a reasonable fallback to
>     >> filter things based on the file of their definition.
> 
> Great - this seems to get the job done
> 
> import sys, inspect
> import matplotlib.matlab
> 
> class defined_in:
>     def __init__(self, modname):
>         self.modname = modname
>         
>     def __call__(self, o):
>         return (inspect.isfunction(o) and
>                 o.__module__==self.modname and
>                 not o.__name__.startswith('_'))
> 
> modname = 'matplotlib.matlab'
> members = inspect.getmembers(sys.modules[modname], defined_in(modname))
> for name, o in members:
>     print name

Very nice!  I'd slightly prefer one tiny difference...:

def defined_in(modname):
    def check(o):
        return ( inspect.isfunction(o) and
                 o.__module__ == modname and
                 not o.__name__.startswith('_') )
    return check

A matter of taste, of course, but I prefer to write such things as
closures rather than classes -- classes are more powerful and versatile,
and exactly because of this, when I don't need the power, I think it
expresses my design idea better to use a closure.  Not a criticism at
all, mind you, just pointing out a possible alternative.


Alex


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 17 02:50:58 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 06:50:58 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02> <4171edbf.9519908@news.oz.net>
	<ZKncd.1779$Ug4.1245@trndny01>
Message-ID: <4172158e.19710772@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 05:50:49 GMT, "Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:11:37 GMT, "Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>I have a number of strings, containing wildcards (e.g. 'abc#e#' where # 
>>>is anything), which I want to match with a test string (e.g 'abcdef'). 
>>>What would be the best way for me to store my strings so lookup is as 
>>>fast as possible?
>> 
>> 
>> Insufficient info. But 'fast as possible' suggests putting your strings in
>> a flex grammar and generating a parser in c. See
>>     http://www.gnu.org/software/flex/
>> Defining a grammar is a good exercise in precise definition of the problem anyway ;-)
>> 
>> If you want to do it in python, you still need to be more precise...
>> 
>> - is # a single character? any number of characters?
>> - if your test string were 'abcdefabcdef' would you want 'abc#e#' to match the whole thing?
>>   or match abcdef twice?
>> - if one wild card string matches, does that "use up" the test string so other wild card strings
>>   mustn't match? If so, what has priority? Longest? shortest? Other criterion? 
>> - etc etc
>
>Sorry for the ambiguity. My case is actually pretty simple. '#' 
>represents any single character, so it's essentially the same as re's 
>'.'. The match must be exact, so the string and pattern must be of equal 
>lengths. Each wildcard is independent of other wildcards. For example, 
>suppose we restricted the possible characters to 1 and 0, then the 
>pattern '##' would only match '00', '01', '10', and '11'. This pattern 
>would not match '0', '111', etc. I feel that a trie would work well, but 
>I'm concerned that for large patterns, the overhead in the Python 
>implementation would be too inefficient.

So is the set of patterns static and you want to find which pattern(s!)
match dynamic input? How many patterns vs inputs strings? What max
length patterns, input strings? Total volume?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Oct 12 17:48:43 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:48:43 -0700
Subject: School Project, Need Help Fast!
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F6D@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Gavin Bauer wrote:
> In science, we are doing a "creative mini project"
> about minerals. ... I would make an input line for
> mineral. Then I would use and if statement, and a
> whole bunch of elif statements, to give the info,
> here is the broken program I came up with:
...
> if mineral = Augite:
      print "a"

That should be more like:

if mineral == "Augite":
    print "a"

...but you shouldn't be using a huge if..elif statement. Use a list
instead and test for "mineral in mineral_list".

> The "press enter to exit" thing is because my DOS
> shuts off the second it finishes computing, which
> leaves me without seeing the final information.
> I would love it if someone knew how I could change
> my Dos preference...

There's a switch for that which I can't recall at the moment.
Workaround: Start->Run->cmd, then navigate to your script and type
"python myscript.py".


Robert Brewer, who isn't going to do *all* the work for you ;)
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org



From agriff at tin.it  Fri Oct  1 17:25:54 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:25:54 GMT
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
References: <mailman.3834.1096015522.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
	<Jdc7d.280819$4o.95007@fed1read01>
	<1gkzgve.4p31dn1tr2bvqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bchrl09prar9vdu9kmgare7cqvif422481@4ax.com>

On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:38:14 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
wrote:

>Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>   ...
>> I don't suppose it's come to your attention that Alex is the author of
>> "Python in a Nutshell" and co-author of "The Python Cookbook", and 
>> therefore rather well qualified to pontificate on the vagaries of Python
>
>Heh, this may in fact have something to do with his attacks -- we're
>both nobodies from a nowhere land (Italy well qualifies for such
>epithets;-), yet I'm reasonably well-known in this field and he's not...
>some people need no more motivation than envy, in order to start spewing
>venomonous attacks, after all;-).

So you feel attacked. You also feel being a nobody. That would
explain the reaction... but can you tell me when I started
spewing venomonous attacks ? I don't understand this part.

>Seriously, being "well qualified to pontificate" isn't really the issue
>here.  For example, Greg Ewing is surely just as well qualified, yet
>disagrees with me (and with the anonymous author of FAQ 1.4.21, and
>presumably with Ka-Ping Yee, who uses the cache-as-default idiom in the
>pydoc.py module he contributed to the Python Standard Library, ...) on
>the specific point (while agreeing with me that evaluating default
>values once at def-time is a good thing -- he has not commented on that
>on this thread, but it's easy to google for what he said in the past).

Evaluating defaults at def-time is IMO a reasonable decision;
not the only reasonable one I can see (but remember I'm a newbie),
but still quite reasonable.

(mis)using modifiable defaults is however quite another thing,
the former *allows* for the latter; but the two are not IMO the
same. One thing is what is legal, another is what is moral.

>Yet, none of us take such technical disagreements as excuses to spew
>insults at each other, nor do we have the arrogance to proclaim our
>opinions in the matter "uncontestable".

"puh-LEEZE" is the courtesy form for IMHO ? I'm an "hypocrit" just
because your little brain isn't able to grasp that difference ?

Then "I piss on your head" (please consider this as the courtesy
form for "I don't agree wholeheartedly with you") :-)

>I think these differences
>between typical Pythonistas' behavior, and AG's, are important -- and
>maybe, at one remove, they may help explain why you, I, Greg, Ka-Ping,
>etc, can be "well qualified"... readiness to listen, and to argue with
>the common courtesy civil people maintain, can help one _learn_...

Is this a calling everyone for a vote ? Sounds sorta funny...
and sort of pathetic at the same time.

Is there any specific reason for which you want me out of
python ? I was quite seriously thinking to pushing a lot for
adopting python as the main language for developing our next
CAD-CAM...

Andrea


From s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au  Fri Oct 22 01:59:52 2004
From: s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au (Shufen)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 22:59:52 -0700
Subject: Executing python scripts
Message-ID: <d3502feb.0410212159.2f72d92b@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Can someone please advice me on the differences between this:
#!/usr/bin/env python and these: #!/usr/local/bin/python or
#!/usr/bin/python?

I know the first one locates the Python interpreter according to my
system searching path setting. But I read about an article that
mentioned that if we are running the scripts as a CGI from a Web
server then we should use the latter one. Because I'm using python
scripts as a CGI now and I'm currently using #!/usr/bin/env python
this and it seems fine to me, so I would like to know if there is any
difference.

Thank you for any help.



Shufen


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Sat Oct 30 14:15:45 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:15:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Enumerate question: Inner looping like in Perl
References: <4183d256$0$3665$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
Message-ID: <loom.20041030T201133-272@post.gmane.org>

Pekka Niiranen <pekka.niiranen <at> wlanmail.com> writes:

> for i, row in enumerate(contents):
> 	row[i] = something
> 	if matcherSTART.search(row):
> 		"Oops! how to advance 'i' and 'row' untill:
> 		if matcherEND.search(row):
> 			continue

Usually I would do this kind of thing by just keeping the iterator around.  The
example below has two loops, an outer and an inner, and both iterate over the
same enumeration.  (I've used 'char ==' instead of regular expressions to make
the output a little clearer, but hopefully you can do the translation back to
regexps for your code.)

>>> contents = list('abcdefg')
>>> itr = enumerate(contents)
>>> for i, char in itr:
... 	print 'outer', i, char
... 	contents[i] = char.upper()
... 	if char == 'd':
... 		for i, char in itr:
... 			print 'inner', i, char
... 			if char == 'f':
... 				break
... 			
outer 0 a
outer 1 b
outer 2 c
outer 3 d
inner 4 e
inner 5 f
outer 6 g
>>> contents
['A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'e', 'f', 'G']

Steve



From aisaac at american.edu  Mon Oct 25 12:11:47 2004
From: aisaac at american.edu (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:11:47 -0400
Subject: Pythonic function composition
References: <10nq3c4j3lst8e2@corp.supernews.com>
	<clj5nq$jl$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <10nq9ca55r97f93@corp.supernews.com>


"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:clj5nq$jl$02$1 at news.t-online.com...
> >>> g2 = reduce(lambda f, g: lambda x: f(g(x)), fns)


Cool.  That gets me there.  I think
def compose(fns) : return reduce(lambda f, g: lambda x: f(g(x)), fns)
does exactly what I want.

Thanks,
Alan Isaac





From riccardo.rorssi76 at email.it  Mon Oct 18 11:30:54 2004
From: riccardo.rorssi76 at email.it (Riccardo Rossi)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:30:54 GMT
Subject: By value or by reference?
Message-ID: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>

Hi all!

How does Python pass arguments to a function? By value or by reference?

Thanks,
Riccardo Rossi. 




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Oct 19 17:39:00 2004
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:39:00 GMT
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
References: <mailman.5138.1098132727.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl2ldp$p5o$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5179.1098204696.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.5184.1098208437.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl3mgv$i24$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<1glx9uk.19y2l5yvlo403N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <UPfdd.4446$bV5.684@trndny07>

[Alex Martelli]
> Stylistically, I prefer
>     iter(random.random, None)
> using the 2-args form of the built-in iter, to
>     itertools.starmap(random.random, itertools.repeat(()))

FWIW, I prefer loading the itertools recipes so I can write:

     repeatfunc(random.random)

IMO, that is plainer than both the iter() and starmap() versions.


> However, itertools IS a speed demon...:
>
> kallisti:~/cb alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import random, itertools as it'
> \     > 'list(it.islice(iter(random.random, None), 666))'
> 1000 loops, best of 3: 884 usec per loop
>
> kallisti:~/cb alex$ python -m timeit -s 'import random, itertools as it'
> \     > 'list(it.islice(it.starmap(random.random, it.repeat(())), 666))'
> 1000 loops, best of 3: 407 usec per loop

Also time:

    iter(random.random, 1.0)

IIRC, floats compare to each other faster than a float to None.


Raymond Hettinger




From flupke at nonexistingdomain.com  Fri Oct 29 10:54:04 2004
From: flupke at nonexistingdomain.com (flupke)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:54:04 GMT
Subject: deleting elements from a list in a for loop
In-Reply-To: <cltkqk$rmd$1@online.de>
References: <Risgd.3548$7R7.154746@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
	<cltkqk$rmd$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <gQsgd.3601$hZ.416839@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Benjamin Niemann wrote:
> If it doesn't matter in which order you scan the list:
> 
> for idx in xrange(len(el), -1, -1):
>     element = el[idx]
>     if ....:
>         del el[idx]
> 
> By running from end to start of the list, a "del" won't affect later 
> iterations of the loop.
> Generally: you shouldn't modify a list while doing a "for a in el:" - 
> this just causes confusion (as you've already seen ;)

Scan order doesn't matter so i could also use this sollution.
The for line should be "for idx in xrange(len(el)-1, -1, -1):"
for it to work.

Any, also a great sollution, thanks!

Benedict


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Tue Oct 12 23:43:18 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:43:18 -0400
Subject: Using pickle with setattr
Message-ID: <416CA456.8070409@kzoo.edu>

For the project I'm working on right now I'm dealing with a lot of class 
objects that I plan to be changing at run-time through the 
get/has/setattr functions. I'm wondering whether or not the standard 
Pickle module will handle this or not -- will an object pickle correctly 
if it has methods that are not in its original class definition? The 
wiki tells me it doesn't work correctly if you save an object of a 
class, then change that class and load the object. That I'm not planning 
to do -- I'm changing the attributes of the object itself.

If it won't, what are my options? Also, is there a module available for 
saving the complete state of an object such that it is loadable without 
the python source for the original class?



From beliavsky at aol.com  Thu Oct 28 13:04:05 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 10:04:05 -0700
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0410280904.55f2fa4@posting.google.com>

Ajay <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> hi!
> 
> is there an authoritative source on the performance of scripting languages
> such as python vs. something like java, c, c++.
> 
> its for a report, so it would be awesome if i could quote some well-known
> authority on this.

Table 25-1, "Relative Execution Time of Programming Languages", on
page 600 of the book "Code Complete, 2nd Edition" by Steve McConnell
(a well-known author) has the following statistics, based on
benchmarks described by the author in chapters 25-26. A larger number
means the language is slower.

Language       Type of Language     Execution Time Relative to C++
C++            compiled             1
Visual Basic   compiled             1
C#             compiled             1
Java           byte code            1.5
PHP            interpreted          >100
Python         interpreted          >100

I think Python is slower than C++ or Fortran for number-crunching,
based on some experience with Numeric, but the speed factor is more
often in the range of 2-10, not >100. McConnell's benchmarks are more
general. I doubt the assertion that VB is as fast C++. Replacing a VBA
function in Excel with a C dll can lead to big increase in speed.

Table 4-1 of the same book shows the "ratio of high-level-language
statements to
equivalent C code" (higher is better):

Language                Language Relative to C
C                       1
Fortran 95              2
C++                     2.5
Java                    2.5
Microsoft Visual Basic  4.5
Perl                    6
Python                  6

The ratios depend heavily on the type of program being written. I'll
believe a VB/Fortran 95 ratio of 2.25 (or much higher) for Windows GUI
programming but not for a linear algebra library, where Fortran is
more powerful.

The sources listed for this table are the books

"Estimating Software Costs", by Capers Jones, McGraw-Hill (1998)

"Software Cost Estimation with Cocomo II" by Barry Boehm,
Addison-Wesley
(2000)

and the paper (online at
http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf
)

"An Empirical Comparison of Seven Programming Languages", by Lutz
Prechelt,
IEEE Computer, October 2000, 23-29.


From spam at nospam.org  Wed Oct  6 20:25:38 2004
From: spam at nospam.org (Erik Johnson)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:25:38 -0600
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <41648bae$1@nntp.zianet.com>


"Erik Johnson wellkeeper com>" <ej <atdot> wrote in message
news:416472df at nntp.zianet.com...
>
>     I am rather new to Python and still learning the finer points....


Thanks to all of you who took the time to respond to my post!  I do like the

 foo_d or {}

paradigm - that's considerably cleaner.
Michael Hoffman's comments about explicitly testing against None duly noted!
:)

    And thanks to Mr. Holden for the words of encouragement - I have your
book by the way. :)
I am currently swamped with "stuff", but I browsed through enough of it to
know that Python was a viable option for us. I came into this job with PHP
already well underway. Though it has some smartly handy functions, I have
not been very impressed with it as a language overall. I am thankful I have
a cool boss who listens to what I think and so I think PHP, at this "shop"
anyway, is on its way out.  :)  I hope to spend some more time digging into
it (them - both the book and Python itself) soon!

Thanks again!
-ej





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Oct 18 09:29:55 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:29:55 -0500
Subject: interface boilerplate
In-Reply-To: <1glushu.4o1jab1gxj2czN%aleaxit@yahoo.com> (aleaxit@yahoo.com's
	message of "Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:17:43 +0200")
References: <mailman.5090.1098044946.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glushu.4o1jab1gxj2czN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <m27jpo17e4.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Alex" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

    Alex> To make a function just like another but with a different
    Alex> name:

    Alex> def changed_name_function(f, newname): import new return
    Alex> new.function(f.func_code, f.func_globals, newname,
    Alex> f.func_defaults, f.func_closure)

    Alex> I believe this should work in 2.2 as well (not tested).

I tested this - the signature of new.function in 2.2 is a bit
different

function(...)
    Create a function object from (CODE, GLOBALS, [NAME [, ARGDEFS]]).

so it doesn't take the 5 arg version posted.  

I am having a little trouble figuring out how to handle the call
signature for 2.2.  I tried this modification (matplotlib._python23 is
a flag that returns True iff python version >=2.3


def changed_name_function(f, newname):
    import new
    if matplotlib._python23:
        newf =  new.function(f.func_code, f.func_globals, newname,
                             f.func_defaults, f.func_closure)
    else:
        if f.func_defaults is None:
            argdefs = ()
        else:
            argdefs = f.func_defaults
        newf =  new.function(f.func_code, f.func_globals, newname,
                             argdefs)

    newf.__doc__ = f.__doc__
    return newf

I added the None check on f.func_defaults because I was getting the
error

  TypeError: function() argument 4 must be tuple, not None

But this does not appear to be right either because I get a segfault
:-(  Note that the suggestion works as advertised for python2.3.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
John Hunter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 15 03:04:53 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:04:53 +0200
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mo6q66oi0kj04@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmplmh.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mqr0rlj9h6r69@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4886.1097691293.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mqus4rmmtl286@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1gloaip.1xsdhpz24usorN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:

> currying horses... ;) )  I believe that his solution involved callable
> class instances that store the function to be called and the known 
> parameters as attributes.  That *was* quite a while ago (possibly even
> pre-2.2), though, so I don't know whether it'd still be the most 
> effective recipe... and my memory about it is a bit flakey.

I think the most effective way to make general curries today is by
closures.  E.g., if what you want to curry are the starting parameters:

def curry(function, *curried_params):
    def curried(*free_params):
        return function(*(curried_params+free_params))
    return curried

In 2.4 you can even set curried.func_name=function.func_name ...;-)

For an important special case, currying the first parameter into a
Python-coded function, function.__get__(first_parameter) happens to
work; I confess that sometimes I've coded functions that take a "first
parameter" that is in fact a tuple of quite a few things just to be able
to use this *delightful* approach (not recommended, I've just got a love
affair with currying, and _dream_ of it being a Python "intrinsic"!-).


Alex


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Sat Oct 16 15:59:41 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:59:41 +0200
Subject: windows services
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5046.1097941098.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5046.1097941098.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckrujd$90f$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Francis Lavoie wrote:
> Is it possible to restart windows services? (remotely and locally)
> 
> Because I have a little script that retreive the LastWaitTimeout key of 
> the automatic update, delete that key if it out schedule for our 
> production needs. But still the service need to be restarded if I want 
> that key to be reset, when Win Update will resynchronize with the sus 
> server for new update.
> 
> Thankx
> 
Mybe this helps:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/59872

--
Vincent Wehren


From michael.mata at gaigen.net  Fri Oct 22 15:05:30 2004
From: michael.mata at gaigen.net (michael.mata at gaigen.net)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 12:05:30 -0700
Subject: help with map function
References: <e4217d28.0410212343.524a71ce@posting.google.com>
	<Xns958A5BF66D2B0duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1098471930.321850.283750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> A lambda creates an anonymous function. Assigning a lambda directly
to a
> variable is simply an exercise in obfuscation. The same code can be
more
> clearly expressed:
>
> def apply_each(fns, args=[]):
>     return map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))
>
I agree.  I was so busy trying to wrap my head around this statement,
that I realize it was more complex than it had to be.

> These days you can express the same thing more clearly with a list
> comprehension:
>
> def apply_each(fns, args=[]):
>     return [ fn(*args) for fn in fns ]
>
> In general it would probably be better to define it as:
>
>    def apply_each(fns, *args, **kw):
>       return [ fn(*args, **kw) for fn in fns ]
>
> although this changes slightly how you call it.
>

I don't have any experience working with *args, **kw arguments.  From
what I've read, *args allows for an unknown number of arguments to
passed into a function and **kw allows for an unknown number of
key-value pairs to passed into a function.  But from what I understand,
both are optional.  This shouldn't change the how you call apply_each.

> [args]*len(fns) is equivalent to [args, args, args, ...] where args
is
> repeated as often as there are elements in the list. It means that
every
> time apply is called it gets one of the functions and the args value
as its
> parameters.

I understand now.  [args] can be a list of variables, including a list
of lists.  Each variable within [args] is passed to the function called
within apply_each().



From parker at hiredatum.demon.co.uk  Sun Oct  3 05:36:20 2004
From: parker at hiredatum.demon.co.uk (Ian Parker)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:36:20 +0100
Subject: idiom for debug code? [1/1]
References: <y6SdnUz8sr673sHcRVn-gA@rogers.com>
	<wfmdnXvIef4v1cHcRVn-vQ@comcast.com>
	<6tadnfHqDdcg9cHcRVn-hQ@rogers.com>
	<0DoHajVjBwXBFwhr@hiredatum.demon.co.uk>
	<HzJ7d.288401$4o.8905@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <x$1GFwXUg8XBFwCP@hiredatum.demon.co.uk>

In message <HzJ7d.288401$4o.8905 at fed1read01>, Steve Holden 
<steve at holdenweb.com> writes
>Ian Parker wrote:
>
>[...]
>> I have a utility.py module which contains my common functions and I
>> import this in every module, plus a wrapper for the debug function:
>>  import utility
>>  debug = 0
>>  def dprint( *args):
>>     """
>>         print function toggled on or off by module debug variable
>>     """
>>     global debug
>>     if debug:
>>         apply(utility._dprint,args)
>>   This allows me to scatter dprint functions throughout the module 
>>instead
>> of print statements, and enable or suppress them by setting the global
>> 'debug', e.g.
>>      def func(x):
>>         global total
>>         total += x
>>         dprint("total is currently",total)
>>  to get an output of something like:
>>     ! module.py:83 in func: total is currently 10
>>
>
>Well, I don't do anything as sophisticated as dprint on the output 
>side, and might consider lifting it. But in terms of selecting which 
>debug code gets executed I often use something like
>
>       if 3 in debug:
>
>because this makes it easy to selectively turn different bits of debug 
>code on or off. Of course the test takes a little longer, but when not 
>debugging it doesn't take long to check whether an integer is in an 
>empty list.
>
>regards
> Steve

I like that - it does give a flexibility that my dprint lacks.  I do 
tend to find that, although I may enable my dprint only for a function 
or method,  I still comment out some of the dprint calls.

Regards

Ian

-- 
Ian Parker


From http  Fri Oct  8 01:39:45 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 22:39:45 -0700
Subject: How to catch exceptions elegantly in this situation?
References: <e431ae34.0410071913.15954ed5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xzn2xvkda.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

syed_saqib_ali at yahoo.com (Saqib Ali) writes:
> - Alternatively I tought of writing a function 'myFunc' and passing in
> the args as follows: (dict=myDict, key="D", expression="a / b / c"). I
> figured within 'myFunc' I would do:  myDict[key] = eval(expression)
> .......... However that wouldn't work either because the eval would
> fail since the variables will be out of context.
> 
> Any Suggestions??

exprs = [("A", "a+b+c"), ("B", "a-b-c"), ("C", "a/b/c"), etc.]
for a,e in expr:
  try:
    myDict[a] = eval(e)
  except ArithmeticError:
    # whatever


From alban at magproductions.nl  Thu Oct 14 06:00:45 2004
From: alban at magproductions.nl (Alban Hertroys)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:00:45 +0200
Subject: Psycopg and queries with UTF-8 data
Message-ID: <ckliod$8ot$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl>

Another python/psycopg question, for which the solution is probably 
quite simple; I just don't know where to look.

I have a query that inserts data originating from an utf-8 encoded XML 
file. And guess what, it contains utf-8 encoded characters...
Now my problem is that psycopg will only accept queries of type str, so 
how do I get my utf-8 encoded data into the DB?

I can't do query.encode('ascii'), that would be similar to:
 >>> x = u'\xc8'
 >>> print x.encode('ascii')
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xc8' in 
position 0: ordinal not in range(128)


I also tried setting PostgreSQL's client-encoding by executing "SET 
client_encoding TO 'utf-8'", but psycopg still only accepts str-type 
strings (which is not really surprising).


I assume that the solution will result in an ascii encoded query string, 
and that I then can use the QuotedString type to escape my strings 
(which is in my current situation not possible because that also only 
accepts str type strings and it contains utf-8 characters).

Regards,
Alban.


From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 04:57:27 2004
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:57:27 +0100
Subject: Python control of desktop properties
In-Reply-To: <416c8404$1_3@alt.athenanews.com>
References: <416c8404$1_3@alt.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c604101301576a932f5a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:28:45 -0500, Mediocre Person
<mediocre_person at hotmail.com> wrote:
> One of my students is interested in using Python to control his
> (Windows) desktop, and wants to write a program to change the desktop
> background or wallpaper. I told him I'd look into this, but I've had to
> admit defeat.

I've been having a play in that area on and off. This isn't well
documented, but might get you started...

<http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/2Wglzu95.html>
 
> Can someone point me in the right direction, possibly post the simplest
> Python program that can accomplish this. I understand this won't be
> portable. At school, we use Win98SE; the student in question is using
> XPHome at home, and I typically use Gentoo Linux/KDE 3.3. If there were
> a single solution that would address all three environments, I'd be...
> well, shocked.

Me too. ;-)

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon.brunning at gmail.com,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From golux at comcast.net  Sat Oct  9 18:26:57 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 18:26:57 -0400
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <416865B1.3080700@comcast.net>

David Bolen wrote:
> Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:
>>On 2004-10-09, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>The basic problem is that there is no obvious "xor on string" operation
>>
>>Sure there is.  Strings have a boolean value, and the xor
>>operation on boolean values is well-defined.
> 
> That's an operation, but I'm not sure that's the obvious one.  For my
> part, if I saw "string1 ^ string2" I'd probably expect a byte by byte
> xor with the result being a new string.

... but you'd get a traceback.  ;)  As pointed out earlier in this
thread, what works is "bool(string1) ^ bool(string2)", which
certainly doesn't violate the law of least astonishment.
Why would anything else be needed?


From ml at dynkin.com  Sat Oct 16 08:48:04 2004
From: ml at dynkin.com (George Yoshida)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:48:04 +0900
Subject: get the name of lambda
Message-ID: <ckr59p$1epo$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>

Just out of curiosity, is there any way to get the name of a
lambda expression? Lambdas are anonymous functions, so it's a
stupid idea to get the name of it. But if it's possible, how
could I?

Let's take a simple example:
  foo = lambda:None

foo.__name__(or foo.func_name) returns '<lambda>'.
I'm looking for a way to return 'foo', instead of '<lambda>'.

Thanks in advance.

-- George


From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 17:28:52 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 14:28:52 -0700
Subject: Need help getting started with Twisted Matrix.
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0410221328.58ab0efb@posting.google.com>

need some help getting started, it is just a "little" confusing on
where to actually start. I want to write a turn based board game using
Twisted as the networking layer.

I just need a kind of "kick start" to how I need to handle
authentication, joining rooms, ect.

Any help, even a pointer to a better place like another newsgroup, or
a mailing list or forum that would be helpful, I have not had alot of
luck finding any place that is very responsive.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 20 18:00:13 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:00:13 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1glv5uk.n5etko6o0g7xN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5237.1098296619.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glzbtd.13bsb581x122u4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Gustavo Niemeyer <niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:
   ...
> It really depends on what you claim to be passed by value. In Python,
> objects are passed by reference, but references are passed by value. So
> one may say that z is being passed by value, since what is passed is a
> copy of the reference. With that in mind, one may correctly say that
> Python always do pass-by-value, and correctly say that it always do
> pass-by-reference.

That's my point, even though it's argued the other way 'round, that
neither is correct, given the usual connotations of these terms.


> Here is an article presenting the issue in more detail (much more :-):
> 
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-passbyval/
> 
> > The terminology problem may be due to the fact that, in python, the
> > value of a name is a reference to an object.  So, you always pass the
> > value (no implicity copying), and that value is always a reference.
> [...]
> 
> That's it.

Right.  And in common use, pass-by-value and -by-reference are thought
to imply something else.  I wonder how Java deals with it, since (except
for some primitive types like int) it's just the same mechanism as
Python's; being widely used and academically acceptable it must have
found a satisfactory way to explain this, one would hope.


Alex


From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Sun Oct 24 17:21:25 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 23:21:25 +0200
Subject: how do i change from string to list
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>
	<417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <417c1cda$0$152$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>


I agree completely!
Didn't know the list() though.
But all work so my answer is just as valid as yours

;-))
Ivo

"Ivo Woltring" <TheDolphin at ivonet.nl> wrote in message
news:417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd at reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl...
> str='spot'
>
> lst = [] # declare the list first
> for letter in str:
>     lst.append(letter) # append to the list
>
> print lst
>
> result: ['s', 'p', 'o', 't']
>
> cheerz,
> Ivo.
>
>
> "john" <miodio67 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db at posting.google.com...
> > I have the following
> >
> > s = "spot"
> >
> > which I would like to change to a list
> >
> > l = ['s','p','o','t']
> >
> > I have tried  l = eval(s) but I get the error
> >
> > File "<string>", line 1, in ?
> > NameError: spot
> >
> > thank you all for your time
>
>




From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Thu Oct 21 09:42:19 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:42:19 -0400
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5254.1098346524.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5254.1098346524.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j9ydnR4LJpkmIercRVn-og@giganews.com>

Gerhard Haering wrote:

> Especially those of you that have used PySQLite in the past, do you
> have any suggestions that would make the rewrite a better candidate
> for inclusion into Python?

great idea!

I'm currently in the planning phase of moving an application
from a relational database to SQLite via PySQL. I think
embedded, SQL capable databases are "the next big thing"
there is just to much pain being felt by having to manage a
big database when you don't really need them ....

> One problem I see is that even the new PySQLite will grow and try to
> wrap much of the SQLite API that are not directly related to the
> DB-API. If such a thing is too complicated/big for the standard
> library, then maybe it would be better to produce a much simpler
> PySQLite, especially for the Python standard library that leaves all
> the fancy stuff out. My codename would be "embsql".
> 
> So, what would you like to see? "import sqlite", "import embsql", or

I think import sqlite would be the sensible thing. Just as you said ...
... refuse the temptation to guess ...

Istvan.


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 10:55:59 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:55:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: key argument for max?
References: <mailman.5265.1098376117.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm27ma.114npm917y3imlN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041022T165315-458@post.gmane.org>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > If this seems like a good idea, maybe someone could point me in the
> > right direction and I could try to make a patch?  I've never looked at
> > the Python sources before, and it's been a long time since I've
> > written any C, but if it's not too hard...
> 
> It's not too hard, but such a patch would not be accepted for Python
> 2.4, and it's a bit early to start making patches for 2.5, sigh.

Sorry, I was unclear here.  I did only intend this for 2.5 -- I usually figure 
as soon as I've downloaded the beta, it's too late to consider any new 
features. ;)  Obviously no patches for 2.5 will go in until after 2.4 is 
released (when is this planned for?  end of the year?), but I'm not going 
anywhere, so I figured I could work ahead a bit. =)

Steve




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 16:35:07 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:35:07 +0200
Subject: append - Dumb and Dummer
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjrvna$rf4$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjs36a$c14$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1gl5l5t.k9lpmq1rn8gt5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

M. Clift <noone at here.com> wrote:

> Hi Alex,
> 
> How do I print from this?
> 
> def weird_appender(sequence):
>     first_time_choices = {'item1': 'abc', 'item2': 'def', }
>     choices = { None: first_time_choices,
>                 'item1': {'item1': 'blu', 'item2': 'ghi', },
>                 'item2': {'item1': 'jkm', 'item2': 'nop', }
>               }
> 
>     d = choices.get(previous, first_time_choices)
>     choose = d.get(item, [''])
>     yield item + random.choice(choose)
>     previous = item
> 
> print ???

Hmmm, that depends on what (if anything) you _wish_ to print, doesn't
it?  print list(weird_appender(whatever_weird_sequence)) is one
possibility, but surely not the only one...


Alex


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Fri Oct  1 06:02:09 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:02:09 +0200
Subject: Avoiding shell metacharacters in os.popen
In-Reply-To: <slrnclq61c.g23.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
References: <slrncllk2p.m4f.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<cjhb5r$ae8$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<slrnclq61c.g23.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <cjj9v7$5e3$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
> David Fraser <davidf at sjsoft.com> wrote:
> 
>> Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
>>
>>>3) is there an equivalent to the perl quotemeta() command.  This
>>>quotes meta-characters in a string for use in the shell.  Here is a
>>>suitable definition for Unix, but I don't think that \ quoting works
>>>in Windows
>>>
>>>   cmd = re.sub(r"(\W)", r"\\\1", cmd)
>>
>> I can't exactly remember the details but I now I've had painful 
>> experiences on Windows trying to do this kind of thing. It seems to mess 
>> up quoting parameters / exe file names
> 
> 
> Last time I did this for Windows was in C (urk!).  I put every
> parameter in double quotes and then doubled up any " in the parameter.
> This worked mostly but I don't think the OS parsed some bizarre cases
> properly.
> 
If I recall correctly (yikes) the problem was that Python's os.system 
would handle either a program name with spaces in it or a parameter with 
spaces in it, but quoting them both didn't work. Anyway if someone can 
get it to work nicely please post the details here :-)

David


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Sun Oct 17 04:35:25 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 17 Oct 2004 08:35:25 GMT
Subject: SMTP question
References: <mailman.5074.1098001054.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20041017043525.18077.00005365@mb-m03.aol.com>

To Josiah, sorry you're getting this twice, didn't realize you responded both
in the mailgroup, and by email.  But to others, that didn't help, well, it did
as far as me formating for a list, but I'm still not getting into Yahoo.  For
my smtp server smtp.mail.yahoo.com, I just pasted directly from my Outlook
settings which have always worked fine.  When I use s.login('bossierbossman',
'password') I get something like SMTP AUTH extension not supported by server,
and when I just have s.connect() I get socket.error: (10061, 'Connection
refused')


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct  1 08:21:38 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 01 Oct 2004 15:21:38 +0300
Subject: Emacs is going to die! =( [was Re: Emacs + python (Was Re:
	python is going to die! =()
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<278de0e.0409201131.57baf7f9@posting.google.com>
	<414f61bf$0$29449$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<rwJ3d.1000$g42.675@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<87hdprv3qd.fsf_-_@ion.xlipstream.com>
	<du7fz5a8tte.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<cdd4e677.0410010149.50b50324@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7oejm39yl.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "David" == David Rush <kumoyuki at gmail.com> writes:

    David> Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message news:<du7fz5a8tte.fsf_-_ at lehtori.cc.tut.fi>...
    >> That's the whole problem with emacs - lack of resources. Nobody
    >> bothers do anything "seriously". 

    David> And they do in the Eclipse world? Bah. I've just spent two

The results might not be ideal, but the effort seems to be serious;
corporate money is being poured into it. I'm aware that corporate
money is being poured into emacs customization as well, but at least
w/ eclipse the corporations know about it ;-).

    David> to come to terms with Eclipse. I couldn't even how to
    David> figure out how to get brace-matching to work for a
    David> scripting language that is not supported by the default
    David> distribution.

Me neither. Perhaps this is something to be brought up w/ pydev
people.


    David> It's not because Lisp-heads like to think different. It's
    David> because Lisp allows you to think differently. Programming
    David> for Emacs though is a bit of a different animal from most
    David> programming because of the basic data model. When the goal

As far as the emacs data model goes - it's remarkably similar to the
Python data model, and I don't really see any reason why emacs should
be in elisp (apart from inertia).


    >> Eclipse will no doubt take over. 

    David> I do see the possibility, but the Eclipse community is
    David> going to have to more eagerly embrace the non-Java world.

Indeed. I think we just need to give it some time. As it stands, the
potential for the passing of time to actually amounting to something
seems much better for Eclipse than it appears to be for Emacs.


    >> Emacs might need a fresh start, but it's hardly likely; most
    >> probably a new project would be seen as further dillution of
    >> already scarce emacs resources.

    David> The big problem is backward compatibility with the *huge*
    David> base of existing elisp code.

I guess the legacy code just needs to be dropped, translated or
"emulated". Translation doesn't seem entirely impossible, at least for
the bulk of code that is written in "standard" fashion (w/o excessive
use of macros and whatnot). A lot of the elisp codebase is not
necessary for normal use anyway.

    >> Luckily we emacs fans still have hope in eclipse - 

    David> How? I'm feeling awfully let down that the appearance of
    David> the Eclipse community does not seem to match the reality.

That happened to me too. My hope was rekindled when I tried the recent
PyDev and saw that CDT got code compention working in C++. And some
other things. Eclipse needs to do a lot of growing up, but at least it
seems to *want* to grow up - unlike the grumpy old grandad that emacs
has become.

I bumped into this on #emacs; emacs users might find it interesting:

http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca/opinions/editors.html

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 22 17:22:53 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:22:53 -0700
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <1awush1lkmr26.utqa0xkprp0m$.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1awush1lkmr26.utqa0xkprp0m$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <1098480173.4059.20.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 21:32 +0200, JZ wrote:
> Dnia Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:56:44 -0700, Cliff Wells napisa?(a):
> 
> > I've seen nothing in the Python world that compares to Smarty templates 
> 
> I am using Smarty and I know them very well, but compiled Cheetah Templates 
> (http://www.cheetahtemplates.org) with its inheritance approach 

http://www.cheetahtemplate.org/

> is much powerfull and easier to use than Smarty. Cheetah can cache any 
> indyvidual placeholder or portions of template. Smarty caches only the 
> entire template output as a unit. Cheetah can be extended using inheritance 
> approach. Smarty can use only the containment aproach. Cheetah uses Python 
> with its all benefits. Smarty uses PHP with its messing function names, no 
> import idea, no namespaces idea, worse unicode library, no docstring, no 
> good free IDE/RAD editors etc.

First of all, more powerful wasn't the main criteria and easier to use
is arguable depending on your point of view.  Smarty strikes a fine
balance between power and simplicity.  This is where I feel most of the
Python templating engines fall down.  They try to do too much.  Smarty
appears to have found the sweet spot between simplicity and power, with
just the right type and amount of built-in utility to do its job.  On
top of that, it provides a way to extend itself with custom functions,
so the full power of PHP (broken as that may be) is within reach if you
need it.  
My personal feeling on templates is that if you find yourself needing
very powerful features, you're doing it wrong.  That's what the parent
programming language is for.  My favorite use for templates is storing
them in a database so that the end user can modify a website (via a web
interface) without knowing PHP/Python.  Were I shove too much
programming into the template, this wouldn't be possible.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From wganz at texoma.net  Sun Oct  3 21:38:14 2004
From: wganz at texoma.net (Will Ganz)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 20:38:14 -0500
Subject: XML Library from "XML Processing with Python"
In-Reply-To: <3D85DE91.8010102@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <OPEDLDOFHCDKBPBIHMHFKEHPCPAA.wganz@texoma.net>

The book "XML Processing with Python" comes with a companion CD that has
several programs on it for Python 1.5.2.  I have ActivePython 2.2.1
installed on a W2K machine. Is installing "xmln.exe", "xmlv.exe", "Mark
Hammond's Win32 extensions", and "Python XML library from XML-SIG" a GOOD
THING? Or will I thoroughly hose my Python 2.2.1 install?

I am just converting over from that other "P" scripting language and am
having to do a crash course on how to handle XML. Is this book still a good
reference or is it too dated already? (I got it at the $4.99each discount
store so I didn't lose that much if it is already an antique).


Thanks,




From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 20:47:27 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:47:27 -0300
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904101817474bf09933@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 Oct 2004 16:49:29 -0700, Jonathan  Ellis <jbellis at gmail.com> wrote:
> The benefits of static typing, not least among which is the vastly
> superior ease of creating tools that "understand" the language,
> outweigh python's advantages in an environment when many people are
> writing a lot of code.  This can be mitigated by reducing the
> connectedness of your code, e.g. with a plugin architecture, but that
> isn't always an option either...

On principle, I disagree with this statement. Doing large scale
development using Python isn't certainly the same thing as to do it
with another language - C, C++ or Java, for instance. It will require
a different approach to the problem, and perhaps a particular set of
tools and disciplines to help with the process. But I don't think that
static typing represents such a great advantage per itself, as to make
Python badly suited to the problem, because there are many aspects to
it, and Python has its own advantages too. Give it a solid design,
leveraging Python particular strengths, and the end result has the
potential be a positive surprise. But again, that's just my opinion,
and I'm not the best person around to make a definitive claim on it
:-)


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct  5 14:08:04 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:08:04 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6dqy.17aec2n1uecu0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4340.1096988457.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0e1b32-a2n.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.4340.1096988457.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Richard Blackwood  <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Grief, like I said, I haven't been in school since 1976.  Plus, how many 
>schools (I assume you mean like a university or something) teach Python?
			.
			.
			.
Dozens.  Maybe hundreds.

I find your intent hard to decode from what you've posted
in this thread.  If you're not getting the answers you 
want, I urge you to be explicit.


From russblau at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 25 10:35:02 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:35:02 -0400
Subject: replace 'apply' with extended call
References: <10np5sprbh8kp72@corp.supernews.com>
	<b61fd.1486$kM.997@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<10nq30jij1nm41a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2u4h8rF251c09U1@uni-berlin.de>

"Alan G Isaac" <aisaac at american.edu> wrote in message
news:10nq30jij1nm41a at corp.supernews.com...
>
> This raises another (newbie) question that I had.
> Take a trivial example:
>
> from operator import truth
> bool1 = lambda lst: map(truth, lst)
> def bool2(lst): return map(truth,lst)
> def bool3(lst): return [truth(_) for _ in lst]
>
> To my eyes, the most natural is bool2.
> I would never have considered bool1 if
> I had not come across it in the Merz book,
> but it is both shortest and clear.
> I include bool3 just for comparison: I think
> the way in which it is harder to read illustrates
> the usefulness of 'map'.

You find bool3 *harder* to read?  I guess that just illustrates what a
wonderfully diverse world we live in.

-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From sandysj at juno.com  Tue Oct 19 12:02:36 2004
From: sandysj at juno.com (Jeff Sandys)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:02:36 GMT
Subject: Python Newbie
References: <cl2mdn$a6n$1@news.swman.net.uk>
Message-ID: <41753A9C.3404E50B@juno.com>

I spent a week trying to learn Perl with an interactive tutorial 
only to get incredible H#@D at CH#$.  I spent a day learning the 
basics of Python and have never turned back.

abhay wrote:
> 
> I am confused between learning Python or learning Perl. Please any view,
> opinions and suggestions are welcomed.
> 
> josh


From devrim.erdem at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 10:21:31 2004
From: devrim.erdem at gmail.com (devrim.erdem at gmail.com)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 07:21:31 -0700
Subject: Threads in embedded interpreter doesn't run
References: <ba9d8463.0410191255.5bb8bd7f@posting.google.com>
	<10nbdfqhgkgra70@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ba9d8463.0410200621.464e04a8@posting.google.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message news:<10nbdfqhgkgra70 at corp.supernews.com>...
> devrim.erdem at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> >Could anyone give me some hints to understand why the thread can not
> >execute during my application loop.
> >  
> >
> 
> This is a complete shot in the dark, but is there any chance that your 
> rendering loop is holding on to the Python GIL?  Doing so would prevent 
> any (other) Python code from running for as long as the lock is held.

Thanks Jeff.

I haven't so far explicitly done anything with Python GIL in my
application. Is there a function which could tell me if the Python GIL
is held or not ?


From chrispatton at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 00:34:05 2004
From: chrispatton at gmail.com (Chris Patton)
Date: 30 Sep 2004 21:34:05 -0700
Subject: A newbie in more need....
Message-ID: <9c3edc58.0409302034.54f93dd2@posting.google.com>

I am writing a program that writes a number of classes, which are all
fundementally the same thing. The only thing that is different is the
names. Therefore, I need to write a bunch of classes in the quickest
time I can. Here's what I was thinking of:

num = 1
while num < 20:
      exec 'class bug'+num+':'
      exec '      gender = "m"'
      exec '      size = 0'
      exec '      skill = 0'

Obviously, the "exec" statement severley slows the time it takes to
write these classes. I need a new method! If possible I would like to
avoid the use of the "exec" statement alltogether.

           -- Thanks for any help!!


From timothy.williams at nvl.army.mil  Fri Oct  8 08:06:02 2004
From: timothy.williams at nvl.army.mil (Tim Williams)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 05:06:02 -0700
Subject: Problem with tkFileDialog.askdirectory(), Windows,
	and non-ascii paths
References: <mailman.4553.1097213592.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <faf44c99.0410080406.47aa8468@posting.google.com>

Read Roberts <rroberts at adobe.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4553.1097213592.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> I have the current Windows binary install of Python 2.3.4 on my 
> Windows XP system.
> 
> I am pained to discover that  tkFileDialog.askdirectory() returns  a 
> mangled path when a directory is selected which has non-ascii Unicode 
> path, as in Kanji characters, i.e. the usull "????" in place of the 
> original UTF-8 code points.  .
> 
> After some time spent Google'ing. I don't find a discussion of this. 
> Is there some option  or configuration change I can make to fix this? 
> I can roll my own file-dialog , but I prefer to re-use code.

I had a problem with using tkFileDialog.filename between Windows and
Linux. The solution I got was to use unicode().

>>> In article <faf44c99.0402240955.4613fd6a at posting.google.com>,
>>>  timothy.williams at nvl.army.mil (Tim Williams) wrote:
>>> 
>>> >I'm using Python 2.3.2 and tkFileDialog in a program I have. I'm
>>> >trying to use this on Linux (RH 8.0) and Windows 2000. When I
first
>>> >upgraded from v2.2 to v2.3. I noticed that
>>> >tkFileDialog.askopenfilename() returns a tuple on Cancel instead
of
>>> >''. I found that the Windows version still returns a string ('').
Now
>>> >I'm finding out that tkFileDialog.Directory().show() does this
too. ...
>>> >How can I check tkFileDialog to do the "right" thing?  All I want
is
>>> >the string that contains the path, but I want this to work on
both
>>> >Linux and Windows.
>>> 
>>> Is this the sort of thing you want?
>>> 
>>> dirobj = tkFileDialog.askdirectory()
>>> if not dirobj:
>>>   # user Cancelled; works whether the return is '' or ()
>>>   return
>>> 
>>> # dirobj may be a string or a Tk_Obj
>>> dirname = unicode(dirobj)
>>>   
>>> The same code should work for askopenfilename.

HTH


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 15:19:35 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:19:35 -0200
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <loom.20041023T201501-735@post.gmane.org>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
	<mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5357.1098540970.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jtidnZlHj6049OfcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5359.1098542166.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2-idnfYPRs9d8-fcRVn-oA@powergate.ca>
	<864d37090410230912795a565e@mail.gmail.com>
	<loom.20041023T200244-62@post.gmane.org>
	<loom.20041023T201501-735@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <864d37090410231219284f5f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:19:31 +0000 (UTC), Steven Bethard
<steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh, I also wanted to mention that I *really* liked the idea on python-dev that
> ConfigObject might be configurable in the same way as OptionParser:
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-October/049597.html

*If* we can agree on the principle that there are two different issues
here, one being the traditional ConfigParser, and the other one being
a new ConfigObject, (or ConfigInfo, or whatever it gets named), then
it should be possible to provide a simple, but still generic enough,
interface that is able to build a configuration object by fetching
configuration info from a few convenient sources, such as INI files
and command-line options, just by using different parsers. I don't
mean this is a over-generical, all-parsers-are-the-same-thing type of
solution; I'm only talking about a small convenience layer here, which
may be feasible without adding too much complexity.

If there's one thing that I've been learning through my contact with
more experienced Pythoneers, is that over generalization just for the
sake of it is *bad*. In this sense, complex stuff such as XML file
formats would be better handled by their own specific frameworks. INI
files, on the other hand, are *simple*, and should stay like that. The
same apply for config line options.

As for another commentary regarding the 'microsoftness' of the INI
file format, well, I don't see that as a problem at all. It should not
be bad just because it's Microsoft, or any other company format, for
that sake. It's already 'open' enough, nobody really owns it; it's
simple, readable, user-editable, and pretty simple to parse and to
write back. Besides that, it's widely known. It would be bad if we
were talking about supporting the full Microsoft API for INI files,
which isn't the case, really (unless someone suggests to make the
ConfigObject to mimick the Windows Registry; in this case, I'll flee
from this forum in panic).


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Oct 28 11:36:07 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:36:07 -0500
Subject: Real-time graphs
In-Reply-To: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
	(pynode@centrum.cz's message of "28 Oct 2004 08:23:45 -0700")
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3d5z297o8.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "MJR" == MJR  <pynode at centrum.cz> writes:

    MJR> Hi, just wondering what options I would have if I wanted to
    MJR> use Python to produce real-time graphs. Is there any plotting
    MJR> package suitable for this.

This was discussed at length on this list fairly recently - see

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&frame=right&th=5fc76e588e95c4e9&seekm=mailman.464.1084377353.25742.python-list%40python.org#link2

One important consideration is what you mean by real-time - do you
mean real time in the sense of preemptable kernel or in the sense of
dynamically updating 10-30 times per second; what kind of refresh
rates do you need?

JDH



From hkconet at tom.com  Thu Oct 21 07:57:24 2004
From: hkconet at tom.com (¦º¼¿)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 11:57:24 GMT
Subject: Free sex hotline from China
Message-ID: <cl8874$gn940@imsp212.netvigator.com>

+86 13680152666



From nomail at no.way  Tue Oct 26 13:49:07 2004
From: nomail at no.way (Bats)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:49:07 +0200
Subject: Fedora 1 and Eric3
References: <cldm39$qo7$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <clfgq2$5hs$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
	<mailman.5403.1098672447.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clm2iq$h7q$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Given that using qt designer to make your forms is easier - do you have an
IDE you like, or do you just stick to text editors?


-- 
Bats
~..~
(I can only post on weekends and rare times during the week.)



From emanuel.landeholm at telia.com  Fri Oct 29 07:00:34 2004
From: emanuel.landeholm at telia.com (Emanuel Landeholm)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:00:34 GMT
Subject: C API q
In-Reply-To: <fjpgd.120483$dP1.407216@newsc.telia.net>
References: <fjpgd.120483$dP1.407216@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <mppgd.120484$dP1.407452@newsc.telia.net>

Emanuel Landeholm wrote:

> PyList_DelItem(counter) on the counter when the iter item == the 

Sorry. Make that PyObject_DelItem.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct  8 13:48:38 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:48:38 -0700
Subject: Client for server doing dispatcher_with_send
In-Reply-To: <ck64g9$k7g$1@newsfeed.pit.comms.marconi.com>
References: <ck64g9$k7g$1@newsfeed.pit.comms.marconi.com>
Message-ID: <20041008101010.ED8B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Is there a more elegant way to write this?  How can I determine that nothing
> more is being sent?

Write a better protocol.  A better protocol is easy (it can be done
better, but this is short and will do the job).

 - Josiah



from StringIO import StringIO

class my_dispatcher_with_send(asyncore.dispatcher_with_send):
    def send (self, data):
        asyncore.dispatcher_with_send(struct.pack('>L', len(data))+data)

def read(sock, length):
    s = StringIO()
    while s.tell() < length:
        s.write(sock.recv(length-s.tell()))
    return s.getvalue()

def receiver(sock):
    try:
        l = read(sock, 4)
        l = struct.unpack('>L', l)[0]
        r = read(sock, l)
        sock.close()
        return r
    except socket.error, why:
        sock.close()



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Oct 25 20:37:59 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:37:59 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <m3r7nmtkdh.fsf@g2ctech.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5432.1098719901.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d2543$0$45533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj9du$l12$04$1@news.t-online.com> <Yhgfd.15018$lp6.822@okepread01>
	<m3r7nmtkdh.fsf@g2ctech.com>
Message-ID: <1098751079.22370.122.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 21:04 -0300, Jorge Godoy wrote:
> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> 
> > Looks that way. Time was, authors would use the LGPL for libraries 
> > (which was why it was developed in the first place). But if someone puts 
> > a module under the GPL then any integrated use of that module is a 
> > dervied work and must, if redistributed, be put out under the GPL.
> 
> Reading a prior post here, there was one thing that could be done:
> writing an interface module, releasing the source for such an interface
> module, and communicating with it through pipes, RPC, etc.  It would
> separate your code from the other and free you from the obligation of
> using GPL.

Hm. Much like the NVidia drivers for Linux do (the "shim" interface
between the kernel and their proprietary code is open source, which
solves a couple problems at once for them [licensing and changing
kernels]).  However, I also doubt they are using pipes or command line
arguments for communication, so I wonder how they've resolved that
issue.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From agriff at tin.it  Tue Oct 19 01:30:26 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:30:26 GMT
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5152.1098149022.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ve99n0t87ku9i926olf3jh12kori9pvir7@4ax.com>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:23:37 +0000, Dima Dorfman
<d+pylist at nospamplease.trit.org> wrote:

>I find myself writing a lot of recursive generators, and a while ago I
>implemented this:
>
>  yield *other
>
>to mean:
>
>  for x in other:
>    yield x
>
>No new keywords, and the asterisk is already used for a similar
>purpose (iterator expansion) in the function call syntax.
>
>Thoughts? "Neat!" or "Yuck!"?

An ignored "Neat" for me

Andrea


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Mon Oct 11 18:01:33 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:01:33 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<ck3ls6$62e$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<9fc58c06.0410111225.5e6a1662@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1pDad.22529$5O5.5713@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Luis P Caamano:

> Therefore, fixing the GIL was always in competition with existing code
> and libraries, and it always lost because it was (and still is)
> considered "not worth the effort."

   Greg Stein implemented a "free-threaded" version of Python in 1996 and
had another look in 2000.

http://python.tpnet.pl/contrib-09-Dec-1999/System/threading.README
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-April/003605.html

    So, it is not the initial implementation of a GIL-free Python that is
the stumbling block but the maintenance of the code. The poor performance of
free-threaded Python contributed to the lack of interest.

> That's probably the main disagreement I have
> with those that think that the GIL is not a big problem, IPC is not a
> solution but a workaround.

   For me, the GIL works fine because it is released around I/O operations
which are the bottlenecks in the types of application I write.

>   - Let users lock, not the interpreter.  If you use threads and you
> access global objects without locking, you might get undefined
> behaviors, just like in C/C++.

   That will cause problems for much existing code.

> Unfortunately, those changes are big enough that I don't think they'll
> happen under the CPython source tree even we all wanted them.

   It won't happen until the people that think this is a problem are
prepared to provide the effort to maintain free-threaded Python.

   Neil




From http  Fri Oct 15 21:55:54 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 18:55:54 -0700
Subject: How can I get text of the body (payload) of an email?
References: <1097890188.684790.103490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xmzyn2zpx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"andrew blah" <andrew.stuart at xse.com.au> writes:
> Can anyone suggest a convenient way to get access to the raw message
> payload?

If you're using the mailbox module, the body text is what you get
from message.fp.read() where message is an rfc822 message object
from reading the mailbox.  Is that what you wanted to know?


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sun Oct 10 10:17:58 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:17:58 +0100
Subject: Init a table of functions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4665.1097417265.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>	<cka7q6$4u7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>	<4168A727.6050606@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4651.1097377198.5135.python-list@python.org>	<ckarh3$lat$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<mailman.4665.1097417265.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckbgar$2hj$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
> Michael Hoffman wrote:
>> http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html
> 
> Why a necessary good habit?

Feel free to read the web page I posted for all kinds of information 
about new-style classes and why they are useful.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From fosters at dsl.pipex.com  Fri Oct 15 04:48:05 2004
From: fosters at dsl.pipex.com (Simon Foster)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 01:48:05 -0700
Subject: Artifical Life - a job for someone else
References: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>
	<416C68C9.F3271A1C@alcyone.com>
	<6f402501.0410141410.4dff0100@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ab790628.0410150048.21d0bdf6@posting.google.com>

fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) wrote in message news:<6f402501.0410141410.4dff0100 at posting.google.com>...
> > 
> > But even if neither of those things interest you, there _is_ a Python
> > curses module that works with Windows:
> > 
> > 	http://flangy.com/dev/python/curses/
> > 

This link appears to be broken.  Does anyone have an alternative?


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct 18 14:02:23 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:02:23 -0700
Subject: By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <cl0v8o$8a4$1@fred.mathworks.com>
References: <cl0umu$kdm$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<cl0v8o$8a4$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <20041018105105.0A2E.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> I've given up expressing my opinion on the matter.  Everyone here
> seems to have a different notion of what "pass-by-reference" and
> "pass-by-value" mean.  It's funny--I've never run into trouble with
> these terms before seeing these discussions on C.L.Py.

It is because Python does it differently from most other languages, and
it doesn't fit the paradigms of "pass by value" or "pass by reference"
as already explained by Alex Martelli.

Python does name binding with references.  That is, each reference is
given a name, but you cannot change data by assigning to a name; you can
only change what data that name points to.  There are certain operations
that can be done with mutable objects and immutable objects, but that is
another discussion entirely.


There is not so much an argument, but there is a semantic "what the hell
is it doing" that is not being communicated properly.  I am sure there
is a FAQ about this, but I don't have the link handy, and I can't quite
find the right incantation for Google.

 - Josiah



From ktenney at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 08:24:19 2004
From: ktenney at gmail.com (Kent)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 05:24:19 -0700
Subject: Social Analysis and Modeling for Python
References: <415AD6A4.7000400@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4096.1096482802.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4abs22-p18.ln1@lairds.us>	<2s2q4uF1fcanvU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<sv6u22-r3k.ln1@lairds.us>
	<mailman.4187.1096659780.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ca81681.0410060424.6fcaa86e@posting.google.com>

This stuff is way over my head, but reminds me of a simple
minded impression I have of extending the concepts of GIS
to other domains.

I see great potential in working towards the ability to
map economic data, and the flow of money, power,
opportunity and influence.

Grand sounding indeed, but it starts with an architecture to
model the concepts, then populating with data. You guys are
smart, you'll figure how to extract the knowledge, eventually
the wisdom, from the data which you are turning into information.
(see http://www.systems-thinking.org/dikw/dikw.htm)

Thanks,
Kent

Bishara Gabriel <bgabriel at cloudthunder.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4187.1096659780.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
> >In article <2s2q4uF1fcanvU1 at uni-berlin.de>, val <val at vtek.com> wrote:
> >			.
> >			.
> >			.
> >  
> >
> >>well, 'If this were my proposal, I'd aim for the far more powerful,'
> >>"In addition to conventional wisdom, Python may be considered as
> >>a unique *science tool* providing an opportunity (1) *to build models
> >>programmatically* - using online experimental data, data-driven
> >>techniques, and databases integrated with the models, (2) to keep
> >>the models in a dynamic format available for online analysis,
> >>testing, and updating.  Such online science/reasoning tools may as well be a
> >>unique
> >>communication vehicle among scientists speeding up drastically
> >>understanding complex/data-intensive phenomena such as genome dynamics,
> >>social processes, terror networks, industrial dynamics, etc."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >Hear, hear!  Well-done.
> >  
> >
> As I said, an excellent suggestion indeed.  Unfortunately, we already 
> have enough on our plate (as you pointed out) considering the time frame 
> and resources allowed to us.  If we had instead applied for a NSF grant 
> (three years, large budget) then we would have no problem with asserting 
> our ability to utilize *online*-experimental data, to keep the models in 
> a dynamic format available for *online* analysis, and so forth.  Our 
> limited time and resources will narrow our capabilities in this respect.
> 
> If we had a larger team of regular contributors, this might be more 
> plausible.  
> 
> Thank you for your feedback.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Bishara Gabriel


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 04:24:45 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:24:45 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mzz1rk0x.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
	<mailman.4287.1096945195.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<96c2e938.0410050738.3e65ff5e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gl8ciq.sqxbf1q3i6f3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

G. S. Hayes <sjdevnull at yahoo.com> wrote:
   ...
>     def __getattr__(self, attr):
>         if not hasattr(self, attr):

redundant: hasattr(self, attr) will ALWAYS be false here, or else
__getattr__ wouldn't have been entered in the first place.


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 06:47:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:47:44 +0200
Subject: Python capability do like plugins ?
References: <cl02mu$qfk$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <1glurfj.zi6798qu4p2fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Leon <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> wrote:

> example :
> /home/test/plugins
> a.py
> b.py
> c.py
> 
> main program can dynamic import plugins directory's files....not normal
> ?uimport?v
> like winamp 

The main program can insert the plugins directory into sys.path and
import at will (e.g with __import__) or do it with the imp module or in
several other ways.  There's a number of recipes in the cookbook...


Alex


From darren at coolpink.net  Sun Oct  3 14:03:49 2004
From: darren at coolpink.net (darren at coolpink.net)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 18:03:49 -0000
Subject: ANN: eric v. 3.5.0 available
Message-ID: <20041003180349.8922.qmail@ws2.coolpink.net>

Sorry, but I am out of the office on Monday 27th September until Monday 11th October 2004.

I will respond to your e-mail when I return

If you need technical support please contact simonh at coolpink.net or mazen at coolpink.net

For any other enquiries please call the office on (0113) 272 3191 

Thanks for your e-mail.




From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 03:42:35 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 00:42:35 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<X8mfd.2724$kM.1512@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410262342.5b69e3de@posting.google.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<X8mfd.2724$kM.1512 at newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> 
> Real code?  Here's one used for generating the canonical
> SMILES representation of a chemical compound.  It comes
> from the FROWNS package.
> 
>              try:
>                  val = 1
>                  for offset, bondtype in offsets[index]:
>                      val *= symclasses[offset] * bondtype
>              except OverflowError:
>                  # Hmm, how often does this occur?
>                  val = 1L
>                  for offset, bondtype in offsets[index]:
>                      val *= symclasses[offset] * bondtype
> 
> 
> The algorithm uses the fundamental theorem of arithmetic
> as part of computing a unique characteristic value for
> every atom in the molecule, up to symmetry.
> 
> It's an iterative algorithm, and the new value for
> a given atom is the product of the old values of its
> neighbor atoms in the graph:
> 
>     V'(atom1) = V(atom1.neighbor[0]) * V(atom1.neighbor[1]) * ...
> 
> In very rare cases this can overflow 32 bits.  Rare
> enough that it's faster to do everything using 32 bit
> numbers and just redo the full calculation if there's
> an overflow.
> 
> Because Python now no longer gives this overflow error,
> we have the advantage of both performance and simplified
> code.
> 
> Relatively speaking, 2**31 is tiny.  My little laptop
> can count that high in Python in about 7 minutes, and
> my hard drive has about 2**35 bits of space.  I deal
> with single files bigger than 2**32 bits.
> 
> Why then should I have to put in all sorts of workarounds
> into *my* code because *you* don't know how to write
> good code, useful test cases, and appropriate internal
> sanity checks?

Thank you for the info.
-kartik


From __NOSPAM at rogers.com__NOSPAM__  Sat Oct  2 01:48:20 2004
From: __NOSPAM at rogers.com__NOSPAM__ (Martin)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 01:48:20 -0400
Subject: Embedding Python
Message-ID: <4audnXFO7feC3MPcRVn-vg@rogers.com>

Greetings,

I am new to python and wish to embed python in an 3D graphics 
application to provide application automation. The high level goal is to 
be able to drive my app from a script for batch job like behavior rather 
than via the GUI (ie. I would like to run a script and see those changes 
reflected in the GUI as if the user had clicked buttons, etc.) The 
application is written in C++ and uses QT for the GUI.

I have read the python docs on python.org and (using SWIG) have been 
able to create Python shadow wrappers around the C++ classes I want to 
allow users to have been able to call them via python scripts. This part 
works well. However in terms of embedding, I feel like I am missing 
something.

For those of you familiar with QT, you know that QT apps run in a 
single-thread (essentially). Although QT supports threads, a 
QApplication based program is (by default) single-threaded. Callbacks 
(slots in QT speak) can be hooked up based on a users actions, but these 
callbacks all run in the main program thread.

So here is my question ... What's the best way to integrate Python into 
an app such as the one I am describing.

Here's what I have though of ...

Alternative #1
Add boiler plate python embedding code (ie. Py_Initialize, 
PyRun_SimpleFile(...), Py_Finalize) in a QT callback. Unfortunately, 
since the QT app is single threaded, this will wedge up the GUI, until 
the script is done. Not good.

Alternative #2
Keep the app as a single threaded app and interpret the script piece 
meal (ie. one statement at a time) at some timed interval. Allow for GUI 
updating between statement interpreting. Unfortunately, groveling over 
the Python C API, this does not look particularly easy either and would 
more or less require cutting/pasting much of the interpreter guts in my 
app. Furthermore, incomplete statements (ie. lines ending in : ) seem to 
present a problem to PyRun_SimpleString.

Alternative #3
Split the app up so that it is broken up into 2 threads (GUI and guts). 
The interpreter would run in the gut thread and change the internal data 
store. The GUI would then have to be smart enough to update itselft.
Unfortunately, this requires major app re-architecting (something I am 
trying to avoid).

Alternative #4
Spawn an interpreter thread using multi-threaded interpreter calls. This 
would then require locking/unlocking shared resources between 
Interpreter thread and the rest of the app. It feels like if I am going 
to do this #3 may be a cleaner approach.

I am sure someone out there has done this before.

For me, the key point is that I want to add this functionality without 
disrupting the entire product. I am trying to evaluate what is 
architecturally the best approach and what will give me the most bang 
for my buck.

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers and Thanks,

Martin





From MornIHATESPAMThdr at NOSPAMverizon.net  Tue Oct 12 23:55:12 2004
From: MornIHATESPAMThdr at NOSPAMverizon.net (Wes S.)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 03:55:12 GMT
Subject: Intercept and Tag STDOUT values
Message-ID: <AG1bd.5304$YU4.1564@trnddc06>

How can I redirect and tag sys.stdout values. I tried creating a class
module that saved the old stdout and replaced it, but I can't seem to figure
out how to do such.

Here is what I got...

class cStdOutRedirect :
 stdOld = ""
 def __main__(self) :
  stdOld = sys.stdout
  sys.stdout = self
  return True
 def write(self,str) :
  stdOld.write("REDIRECTED OUTPUT: " + str)
  return True
 def close(self) :
  sys.stdout = stdOld
  return True

then in the main code...

c = cStdOutRedirect()
print "hello world"
c.close()

I'm in a high school Python class and this is well beyond where the
instructor is now and he isn't too fond of answering advanced questions. I
have programmed in quite a few other languages, so I understand quite a bit
of Python.

-Wes




From somebody at unknown.org  Mon Oct 11 06:51:57 2004
From: somebody at unknown.org (..:: sjf ::..)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:51:57 +0200
Subject: define 'in' operator on lists
In-Reply-To: <Xns957F72D5C6476duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <ckdl7u$m08$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<Xns957F72D5C6476duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <ckdolc$lpr$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

pewnego dnia niejaki(a) Duncan Booth wstukal(a) byl(a) co nastepuje...:
> ..:: sjf ::.. wrote:
> 
> 
>>I want to define 'in' operator (or any "magic" function) on list which 
>>returns True value if all of list (i.e. _list) elements appears in other 
>>list (i.e. L) in the same order and False otherwise. 
> 
> 
> How about:
> 
> 
>>>>def containedinsequence(short, long):
> 
> 	ilong = iter(long)
> 	for s in short:
> 	    for l in ilong:
> 		if s==l:
> 		    break
> 	    else:
> 		return False # ran out of long list
> 	return True
> 
> 
>>>>L = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>>>>containedinsequence([3, 4, 6], L)
>

OK, this is nearly what I am expecting, but I want if
containedsequence([3, 4, 5], L) returns True, but
containedsequence([3, 4, 6], L) returns False
because that sequence not exist in longlist exactly


-- 
.:: sjf ::..
"Linux is like Wigwam. No gates, no windows... Apache inside ;-)"


From nobody at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 13 18:32:01 2004
From: nobody at hotmail.com (Maboroshi)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:32:01 -0700
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
Message-ID: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>

Hello

My question has to do with python and linux - I was interested in 
finding out what it would take to reimplement the Linux Kernel in python 
basically just taking the source code from linux and rewriting it in 
python Would this idea make sense to do - if so what would be the 
benefits of doing this and in what way would this not be a good idea

Cheers


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Wed Oct 13 16:07:51 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:07:51 -0400
Subject: String manipulation advice needed.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4895.1097693510.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4895.1097693510.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <-LudnSHiDaiFFvDcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>

Raaijmakers, Vincent (GE Infrastructure) wrote:


> Works but.. my guess is that it can be way more smarter, 
> I must miss a strong library that can help me in simplifying the job.

this is exactly what pyparsing was developed for:

http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net/

Istvan.


From mak at trisoft.com.pl  Fri Oct  8 01:46:08 2004
From: mak at trisoft.com.pl (Grzegorz Makarewicz)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 07:46:08 +0200
Subject: Connecting to SQL-Server
In-Reply-To: <02fc01c4ac9f$01358a00$054b12ac@D18SYX41>
References: <02fc01c4ac9f$01358a00$054b12ac@D18SYX41>
Message-ID: <416629A0.2020107@trisoft.com.pl>

Greg Lindstrom wrote:
> Hello-
> 
> I'm running Python 2.3 on a Windows XP box and am trying to get connected to
> an MS SQL-Server.  I have found (seemingly) conflicting methods to connect
> using the odbc module in the win32-all extensions.  I have seen both of the
> following:
> 
> db = odbc.odbc('DSN/UID/PASSWORD)
> and
> db=odbc.odbc('DSN=dsn;UID=uid;PWD=password)
> 
> I can connect when I use my computer, but when I transfer the code to a
> production box I am greeted with an error that the login is not associated
> with a trusted connection.  So which, if either, of the above methods should
> I use and what is the error about a trusted connection trying to tell me?
> 

Hi,

Trusted connection means user name and password are taken from windows 
login dialog and this information must be equal to login info stored on 
machine where sql server resides. Untrusted connection (SQL server 
authentication) requires account in sql databases - like 'sa' user.

DSN can be taken from odbc control panel, or can be constructed from 
scratch like in this snippet:

def MakeSQLServerDSN(ip, database='master', u=None, p='', port=1433):
	dsn = [
		'Driver={SQL Server}',
		'Server=%s' %ip,
		'Address=%s,%d' %(ip,port),
		'Network=DBMSSOCN',
		'Database=%s' %database,
	]
	if u is None:
		dsn.append('Trusted_Connection=yes')
	else:
		dsn.append('Uid=%s;Pwd=%s' %(u, p))
	return ';'.join(dsn)

untrusted connection:
dsn = dsnSQLServer('192.168.0.99', 'master', 'sa', 'password', 1433)

trusted connection:
dsn = dsnSQLServer('192.168.0.99', 'master')

mak


From indigo at bitglue.com  Sun Oct  3 12:09:21 2004
From: indigo at bitglue.com (Phil Frost)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:09:21 -0400
Subject: compiler AST
In-Reply-To: <4160218b@news.012.net.il>
References: <4160218b@news.012.net.il>
Message-ID: <20041003160921.GA8524@unununium.org>

The first comment in the source is not the docstring; iff the first
statement in the module is a string, this is the docstring. Comments are
delimited by # and \n. Strings are in quotes.

AST does not parse comments, but it does parse docstrings. There are
available in the .doc attribute of nodes that can have them.

On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 05:50:31PM +0200, Avner Ben wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am working on a reverse-engineering system that relies on comments. I 
> have taken a look at the "compile" module in the Python library. Quite 
> expectedly, the AST does not contain comment lines. The only exception I 
>  have noticed is the very first comment in the source, which is 
> interpreted as the module's docstring and is surprisingly also stored in 
> the AST as a "discardable"-type node. This leaves me with the dismal 
> task of reading the source on my own, parsing the comments and then 
> matching them with the AST through the lineno node attribute. Which is a 
> waste, because the compiler has been there before me. (For my own 
> reasons, I had rather use comments than resort to such esoteric but 
> compiler-friendly means as dummy variables etc.)
> 
> My question: Is there a way to configure the Python compiler to keep All 
> comments from the source as AST nodes (e.g. "discardable")?


From p at ulmcnett.com  Mon Oct  4 15:20:47 2004
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:20:47 -0700
Subject: Is it possible to hide row/column lables in a wxPython Grid
	window?
In-Reply-To: <283adf56.0410041038.63c18466@posting.google.com>
References: <283adf56.0410041038.63c18466@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200410041220.47333.p@ulmcnett.com>

Kevin Dahlhausen writes:

> I looked around the wiki, google, and CLP.  Does anybody know
> if this is possible out of the box?

Try this:

# turn off row labels
grid.SetRowLabelSize(0)
grid.SetColLabelSize(0)

The GUI windows for these labels will still exist, but they 
won't be visible, which is probably all you care about.


-- 
Paul McNett
Independent Software Consultant
http://www.paulmcnett.com


From riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net  Tue Oct 12 16:33:56 2004
From: riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net (Riccardo Galli)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:33:56 +0200
Subject: ANN: curses-extra 0.2
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.12.20.33.54.993050@cut.me.sideralis.net>

First official release :)

curses-extra offers various widgets wrotten using curses module.

In the module are presents the following classes and functions

Widget
    Button
    ButtonBar   #bar of buttons (manage automatically arrow keys)
    CheckButton
        RadioButton
    CheckButtonList #list of checkbutton (as ButtonBar)
    ComboBox
    Menu
    MenuBar

add_shortcut(pattern,action) #check combinations of keys, eg <ctrl>H
use_shortcut(c,obj) #check if character is a shortcut, use it in case
                    #NOTE: widgets auto-check shortcuts

chgat(win[,y,x],count,attr,color) #change attributes of an area

You can find it at
http://www.sideralis.net/index.php?action=4&pjid=20

Suggestions about API or widgets' graphic are appreciated

Thanks,
Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sat Oct  9 21:55:12 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 21:55:12 -0400
Subject: Init a table of functions
In-Reply-To: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>
Message-ID: <41689680.6000706@cloudthunder.com>

Paulo da Silva wrote:

> How do I program something like the folowing program?
> PYTHON claims it doesn't know about 'foo' when initializing K!
> The only way I got this to work was doing the init of K in
> the __init__ func. But this runs everytime for each object!
> When using the name of the function without 'foo', I don't
> know how to call it!
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> #! /bin/env python
> # -*- coding: iso-8859-15 -*-
>
> class foo:
>     def f1():
>         print "f1"
>     f1=staticmethod(f1)
>
>     def f2():
>         print "f2"
>     f2=staticmethod(f2)
>
>     K={"f1" : foo.f1, \
>        "f1" : foo.f2  \
>     }
>
>
> def main():
>     foo.K["f1"]()
>     foo.K["f2"]()
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     main()

self.f1 and self.f2 should work within any class.  Try that.


From ed at leafe.com  Fri Oct 15 21:35:47 2004
From: ed at leafe.com (Ed Leafe)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:35:47 -0400
Subject: Why does super take a class name as the argument?
In-Reply-To: <41705EED.2000702@kzoo.edu>
References: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>
	<2taq57F1sir22U1@uni-berlin.de> <41705EED.2000702@kzoo.edu>
Message-ID: <B43F44B4-1F13-11D9-B93E-003065B11E84@leafe.com>

On Oct 15, 2004, at 7:36 PM, dataangel wrote:

> What's the going argument against it? Makes sense to me.

	There are constructions in other languages whereby an call to the 
superclass method does not require an explicit name of the current 
class. When an inherited method is augmented in a subclass, the call to 
the superclass version of the method doesn't require any class 
specification; each class knows its own hierarchy.

	So in the examples others have given, you'd have:

class A(object):
	def theMethod(self):
		print "doing A stuff"

	def someOtherMethod(self):
		print "Some Other A method is running"

class B(A):
	def theMethod(self):
		print "doing some early B stuff"
		self.super()
		print "some final B stuff"

When B is created and its theMethod() is called, it prints as follows:

 >>> obj = B()
 >>> obj.theMethod()
doing some early B stuff
doing A stuff
some final B stuff
 >>> obj.someOtherMethod()
Some Other A method is running

	In other words, the B class knows it inherits from the A class. When 
the call to super() is encountered, B looks to its superclass for such 
a method, and executes it if found. If it has multiple parents, it is 
resolved as is normally done with multiple inheritance. When the call 
to someOtherMethod() is made, the B object knows that it should execute 
that method is its superclass.

	Think of it another way: since B can figure out how to execute a call 
to a method that doesn't exist in B itself by looking into its class 
hierarchy, why can't a call like self.super() execute the code that 
would have been executed had the subclass not overridden the method in 
the first place?

      ___/
     /
    __/
   /
  ____/
  Ed Leafe
  http://leafe.com/
  http://dabodev.com/



From mike at hobbshouse.org  Thu Oct 14 20:37:39 2004
From: mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:37:39 -0000
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<10mt60mhr42rl09@corp.supernews.com>
	<x7sm8hugjz.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <10mu6uje93pk152@corp.supernews.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> wrote:
> mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs) writes:
>> I had once given serious thought to what it would take to write an OS 
>> only in a high-level language. (Standard ML was my language of choice
>> at the time.) The short answer is, no, it can't be done with Python as
>> it currently stands. 
> But it can be done. It *has* been done.
> [snip]
> Actually, you don't need those modifications to Python. What you need
> is a module written in something other than Python that lets you do
> all those things.

Sorry, I should have emphasized the word *only*. I'm talking about writing
an OS *only* with Python. No C, no assembly, just Python. Writing an OS 
without assembly would be impossible unless the compiler can somehow map
required processor opcodes to a function or statement in the higher-level
language. Python does not currently have a proper compiler, much less
functions or statements that would, say, put the processor into protected
mode.

-- Michael Hobbs



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 20:30:57 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 21:30:57 -0300
Subject: [OT] problems with css,
	moinmoin standalone and Firefox on Win32 was Re: webserverless
	Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <4167289B.8050404@po-box.mcgill.ca>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4166F7C6.7050405@wanadoo.fr> <41670711.9040508@po-box.mcgill.ca>
	<864d3709041008151026806fa4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4167289B.8050404@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Message-ID: <864d37090410081730242292f1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:54:03 -0400, Brian van den Broek
<bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote:
> Anything look obviously wrong? Mind if I had a peek at your moin_config.py?

I'm really sorry, but ?ts not possible to me to check it *now*. I'll
see if I can send to you in pvt some info, but no promises -- I'm
really in a hurry now. BTW...
 
[Irmen de Jong]
> Are you sure that the server is sending the correct Content-Type 
> HTTP header for the css files? Firefox refuses to load css files in
> standard compliance mode when the content-type is not text/css.

That's a possible cause... because the simple web server isn't really
that careful when it comes to headers, etc. Worth a check.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From psuspam at grinchcentral.com  Mon Oct  4 14:22:29 2004
From: psuspam at grinchcentral.com (Erik Rose)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:22:29 -0400
Subject: ActivePython/IIS Request Concurrency
In-Reply-To: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F27@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F27@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <59F06350-1632-11D9-8DF7-000A95B6C878@grinchcentral.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> Insanity is in the mind's eye of the beholder. ;) All I can tell you is
> that I don't have that problem. But I'm not using ActivePython, just 
> IIS
> + pywin32. My first thought was that the "application protection"
> setting in IIS (process isolation, essentially) might be the culprit,
> but I tried all three settings without any difficulties on your 
> script. :(

:(? More like :-D! I'm not particularly in love with ActivePython; 
rather, I thought it was the only solution for ASP-embedded Python. 
Reading a little about pywin32, I see this allusion in one of its 
source distributions' readmes (pywin32-202/com/win32com/readme.htm):

"Python continues to work fine as an Active Scripting Engine in all 
other applications, including Windows Scripting Host, and ASP."

My stars! Could it be that pywin32 is sufficient to allow Python as a 
full-fledged ASP language? Is this how you're using it, i.e. not as a 
CGI or anything? If it works for you, I'm perfectly happy (ecstatic, 
actually) to match my setup to yours.

Now very hopefully,
Erik Rose
Programmer/Analyst
Pennsylvania State University



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct  8 13:52:18 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:52:18 -0700
Subject: Can wxWidgets/wxPython 2.4 and 2.5 co-exist on same PC?
In-Reply-To: <MqOdnbIa_pf4OPvcRVn-ig@comcast.com>
References: <MqOdnbIa_pf4OPvcRVn-ig@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20041008101138.ED91.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> I would like to be able to run Boa Constructor, which does not yet use 2.5,
> but I would also like to work with Dabo which does.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas about how to accomplish this?

I have historically just run two different versions of Python and
wxPython when I needed as much.

On Windows, you would just install them to different folders.

On *nix, if you compile it yourself, in the sequence:
./configure
make
make install

you can use 'make altinstall' instead of 'make install', or even alter
the PREFIX variable in the Makefile between 'make' and 'make install'.

 - Josiah



From aisaac at american.edu  Mon Oct 25 10:23:12 2004
From: aisaac at american.edu (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:23:12 -0400
Subject: replace 'apply' with extended call
References: <10np5sprbh8kp72@corp.supernews.com>
	<b61fd.1486$kM.997@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <10nq30jij1nm41a@corp.supernews.com>


"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:b61fd.1486$kM.997 at newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> How about a solution which replaces the 'map' with a
> list comprehension?
> def apply_each(fns, args = []):
>    return [fn(*args) for fn in fns]
> Conversion to lambda form is trivial for this case but I
> figured if you're going to name it, why use a lambda?


This raises another (newbie) question that I had.
Take a trivial example:

from operator import truth
bool1 = lambda lst: map(truth, lst)
def bool2(lst): return map(truth,lst)
def bool3(lst): return [truth(_) for _ in lst]

To my eyes, the most natural is bool2.
I would never have considered bool1 if
I had not come across it in the Merz book,
but it is both shortest and clear.
I include bool3 just for comparison: I think
the way in which it is harder to read illustrates
the usefulness of 'map'.

So, are there any obvious considerations when
making a choice among these.  In particular,
why might someone prefer the style in bool1?

Thanks,
Alan Isaac




From paul.drummond at dsl.pipex.com  Sun Oct 10 13:03:28 2004
From: paul.drummond at dsl.pipex.com (Paul Drummond)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:03:28 +0100
Subject: pyQt
References: <opsfnp6elz8wm9vx@fred> <ckbfjq$lbh$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <opsfnyz2qr8wm9vx@fred>

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 07:05:46 -0700, Robert Kern <rkern at ucsd.edu> wrote:
<snip>
> Don't let the name fool you. It's also for PyQt. It should be the first  
> place to ask PyQt questions.

Oh Good! I shall ask now then in a new thread.  Thanx for the quick reply.

-- 
Cheers,
Paul Drummond


From usenet at mail-2-me.com  Tue Oct 12 04:36:20 2004
From: usenet at mail-2-me.com (Dirk Hagemann)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 01:36:20 -0700
Subject: Search Filter Syntax in Active Directory
References: <mailman.4128.1096533140.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a37aa972.0410120036.5bfb1ef1@posting.google.com>

Hi Tim!

I tried your first example and it works - after I noticed that I have
to change some CN in OU... That is also a mistake in some of my other
codes which I will try now.
Thanks for your help again!!!

Dirk

Tim Golden <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.4128.1096533140.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> [Dirk Hagemann]
> | I want to get the properties of all the computer-accounts of an 
> | ActiveDirectory structure (Microsoft). I know that could be done by 
> | using "Search Filter Syntax" with LDAP-Dialect or SQL-Dialect.
> | I found a lot of information about these dialects, but no 
> | example how to use this in an python-script.
> | Does anybody have a simple example for me, how to get some 
> | information out of AD?
> 
> I twitch nervously every time I have to pull something
> out of AD, but hopefully a couple of working examples
> might get you going. In general, anything you see elsewhere
> in VBS etc. can be done with a couple of GetObject-type
> calls in win32com.client.
> 
> First example: find the display name of a user, given a user name.
> This one uses the LDAP:// moniker syntax.
> 
> <code>
> 
> import win32com.client
> 
> username = "goldent"
> ldap_string = "LDAP://cn=%s,cn=users,dc=gb,dc=vo,dc=local" % username
> ldap_me = win32com.client.GetObject (ldap_string)
> print username, "=>", ldap_me.Get ("displayName")
> 
> </code>
> 
> Second example: find all the domains known by this workstation/server.
> This example uses the WinNT:// object, which I personally find
> a lot easier / more intuitive to use, so long as it meets your
> need (it doesn't do everything, and I'm not sure you can update
> through it).
> 
> <code>
> 
> import win32com.client
> 
> for domain in win32com.client.GetObject ("WinNT:"):
>   print domain.Name
> 
> </code>
> 
> Third example: list all the computers in a particular domain.
> Again WinNT:// syntax.
> 
> <code>
> 
> import win32com.client
> domain_name = "VOUK"
> domain = win32com.client.GetObject ("WinNT://" + domain_name)
> domain.Filter = ["Computer"]
> for computer in domain:
>   print computer.Name
> 
> </code>
> 
> HTH
> TJG
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
> service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
> anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
> http://www.star.net.uk
> ________________________________________________________________________


From pcooke at philc.net  Fri Oct 29 21:29:17 2004
From: pcooke at philc.net (PhilC)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:29:17 -0400
Subject: Finding the array index number for known content.
Message-ID: <3ir5o0djeqc4me3oh735oomvqijdanj63s@4ax.com>

Hi Folks,

If I have an array holding a pair of numbers, and that pairing is
unique, is there a way that I can find the array index number for that
pair?

Thanks,

PhilC


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Wed Oct  6 06:33:07 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:33:07 GMT
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <1gl8d5f.1xwzpge1bw12b5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<KRu8d.25558$H11.796459@twister1.libero.it>
	<1gl8d5f.1xwzpge1bw12b5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DRP8d.26870$N45.697714@twister2.libero.it>

Alex Martelli ha scritto:

> 
> Assuming all of these identifiers are just such, you can't use the
> latter syntax sugar (nor could you use the shorter 'stuff oper' sugar
> either even without the << tail), but just tweak the syntax sugar
> slightly (e.g. put a dot between the identifiers, which syntactically
> you can't just juxtapose -- or, insert some operator there) and I'd
> expect you can build whatever weird semantics you intend to (whether it
> would make any _SENSE_ to go to such contortions is another issue, of
> course -- not knowing what semantics you expect to associate to this not
> exactly self-documenting syntax, I can't really guess).
> 

thanks for hinting the dot, I'm not going to implement this, just 
thought this what was the OP was asking. I still don't understand what 
he wants.

The syntax is perl6's one, and I bet you find it confusing :) but no 
more than F-Script's one:
x @foo: @y

But see, OOPAL or HOM or HyperOperations are a nifty thing and yes, I 
actually think they make lot of sense. I'd love to see them in python.
I think you can google for it and you'll find papers explaining it 
better than I can, but basically it boils down to applying operations to 
a whole collection at once, in APL style.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 03:36:23 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:36:23 +0200
Subject: Becoming Unicode Aware
References: <6f402501.0410270256.13cf5727@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gmd10n.1xt7l7q6ahyacN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Michael Foord <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> def afunction(setoflines, encoding='ascii'):
>     for line in setoflines:
>         if encoding:
>             line = line.decode(encoding)

This snippet as posted is a complicated "no-op but raise an error for
invalidly encoded lines", if it's the whole function.

Assuming the so-called setoflines IS not a set but a list (order
normally matters in such cases), you may rather want:

def afunction(setoflines, encoding='ascii'):
    for i, line in enumerate(setoflines):
        setoflines[i] = line.decode(encoding)

The removal of the 'if' is just the same advice you were already given;
if you want to be able to explicitly pass encoding='' to AVOID the
decode (the whole purpose of the function), just insert a firs line

    if not encoding: return

rather than repeating the test in the loop.  But the key change is to
use enumerate to get indices as well as values, and assign into the
indexing in order to update 'setoflines' in-place; assigning to the
local variable 'line' (assuming, again, that you didn't snip your code
w/o a mention of that) is no good.

A good alternative might alternatively be

    setoflines[:] = [line.decode(encoding) for line in setoflines]

assuming again that you want the change to happen in-place.


Alex


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct 26 00:12:24 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:12:24 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5477.1098760532.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>	<Michael.J.Fromberger-54474F.18411025102004@localhost>	<20041026024802.GA3581@unpythonic.net>
	<mailman.5477.1098760532.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Edkfd.18473$SW3.6071@fed1read01>

Cliff Wells wrote:

> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 21:48 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> 
>>Here's a bug that passes silently because ints are not limited in range
>>from 1 to 100:
>>    ...
>>
>>OK, just joking.  I couldn't think of one.
> 
> 
> Here's one:
> 
> # count how many ferrets I have
> ferrets = 0
> while 1:
>     try:
>         ferrets += 1
>     except:
>         break
> print ferrets
> 
> As you can clearly see, the answer should have been 3, but due to Python
> silently allowing numbers larger than 3 the program gets stuck in an
> apparently interminable loop, requiring me to reboot Microsoft Bob.
> 
Come on, the answer should clearly have been seven. Don't try your trick 
with ne, buddy. I know octal is the only true number system.

And heaven knows how all those different characters got encoded in 
three-bit bytes. That's got to be tricky.

7-I-can-see-that-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 28 12:02:32 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:02:32 -0400
Subject: FTP anomaly
In-Reply-To: <3a1ddb20.0410280758.6dfe7e2a@posting.google.com>
References: <3a1ddb20.0410280758.6dfe7e2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41811818.4070408@holdenweb.com>

Kyle Odom wrote:

> I'm trying to automate some things at work and something I do a lot if
> FTP some files back and forth.  I've got this all done in python just
> fine, but I noticed a huge difference in file sizes.  One particular
> binary file comes over at roughly two megs when I transfer it via ftp
> from the command line (running XP.)  When I get it via my python
> script, it's nine megs!  Any clue why?  I haven't tried using the file
> in my work because I don't want to break anything.
> Fairly new to Python, be kind to me :)
> Thanks!
> KO

You will possibly find that when you transfer the file using the command 
line it's being truncated because you didn't set binary mode, and that 
Python is giving you ALL the data.

Just a theory. Otherwise I'd need to see some code ...

Obviously it would also be helpful to check the file sizes the server 
reports in a DIR command and see whether either transfer method conforms.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 20:27:07 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 17:27:07 -0700
Subject: Poll script in Python
References: <81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f@posting.google.com>
	<6f402501.0410171605.70b0c279@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0410181627.3401c55a@posting.google.com>

fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) wrote in message news:<6f402501.0410171605.70b0c279 at posting.google.com>...
> export at hope.cz (Lad) wrote in message news:<81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f at posting.google.com>...
> > Is there a poll script available in Python?
> 
> I'm very interested in increasing the range of 'standard' CGI scripts
> available in python. If you (or anyone else ?) wants help in writing a
> simple one that could be used as a plugin to other webpages then
> contact me and we'll work on it.

Here's some code (with organization-specific stuff replaced by
asterisks) that I wrote for polls that use ranked ballots:

# vote.cgi

#!/usr/bin/python

import os

def printError(message):
   print '      <p>%s</p>\n   </body>\n</html>' % message

def ordinal(n):
   if n == 1:
      return str(n) + 'st'
   if n == 2:
      return str(n) + 'nd'
   if n == 3:
      return str(n) + 'rd'
   if n < 20:
      return str(n) + 'th'
   return ordinal(n % 10)

def printBallot():
   candidates = file('CANDIDATES').read().splitlines()
   n = len(candidates)
   print '      <form method="post" action="castvote.cgi" />'
   print '         <table>'
   print '            <tr>'
   print '               <th>Candidate</th>'
   for i in xrange(1, n + 1):
      print '               <th>%s choice</th>' % ordinal(i)
   print '            </tr>'
   for (candidateNumber, candidateName) in enumerate(candidates):
      print '            <tr>'
      print '               <td class="candidate">%s</td>' %
candidateName
      for i in xrange(1, n + 1):
         print '               <td>'
         print '                  <input type="radio" name="rank-%d" '
\
                                   'value="%d"' % (candidateNumber,
i),
         if i == n:
            print 'checked',
         print '/>'
         print '               </td>'
      print '            </tr>'
   print '         </table>'
   print '         <p class="votesubmission">'
   print '            <input type="submit" value="Submit Ballot" />'
   print '         </p>'
   print '      </form>'
   print '   </body>'
   print '</html>'

print '''Content-Type: text/html

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
 "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" lang="en" xml:lang="en">
   <head>
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=us-ascii" />
      <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="../****/style.css"
/>
      <title>Vote!</title>
   </head>
   <body>'''
address = os.environ['REMOTE_ADDR']
if address.startswith(****):
   try:
      ballots = file('BALLOTS').read()
   except IOError:
      ballots = ''
   if (address + '\n') in ballots:
      printError('This isn\'t Chicago.  You\'re only allowed to vote
once.')
   else:
      printBallot()
else:
   printError('You can only vote from within ****')

# castvote.cgi

#!/usr/bin/python

import cgi
import os

address = os.environ['REMOTE_ADDR']
form = cgi.FieldStorage()
ballot = []
i = 0
while True:
   try:
      ballot.append(int(form['rank-%d' % i].value))
   except KeyError:
      break
   i += 1

f = file('BALLOTS', 'a')
f.write('%r # %s\n' % (ballot, address))
f.close()

print '''Content-Type: text/html

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
 "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" lang="en" xml:lang="en">
   <head>
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=us-ascii" />
      <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="../****/style.css"
/>
      <title>Vote Submitted</title>
   </head>
   <body>
      <p>Thank you for voting in ****'s ****.  Results will be
announced at
         ****.</p>
      <p>Click <a href="../****">here</a> to return to the
website.</p>
   </body>
</html>'''


From cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu  Wed Oct 13 14:17:21 2004
From: cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu (Christopher J. Bottaro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:17:21 -0500
Subject: passing threading.Thread() and function object
Message-ID: <ckjr96$d14$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hello,

I'm new to Python programming, so please excuse me.

thread = threading.Thread(self.somefunc())
thread.start()
print "Thread started"

def somefunc(self):
        while (1)
                print "In thread"


"Thread started" never gets printed, but "In thread" gets printed
repeatedly.  What is going on?  It seems like thread.start() is blocking
and effectively running self.somefunc() as a normal function.

Thanks for the help.



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Oct 12 18:59:35 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:59:35 -0400
Subject: School Project, Need Help Fast!
In-Reply-To: <000801c4b09f$3f282260$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>
References: <000801c4b09f$3f282260$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <416C61D7.9020303@rogers.com>

Others have pointed out the need to use quotes around the names and to 
use raw_input to get a string, and the desirability of not using huge 
if/elif statements, but this is a small note about making it easier on 
your users.

Instead of requiring that they capitalize the name, do the work 
yourself, it's trivial to implement and avoids a lot of annoying 
situations where the user types a name in and gets it wrong merely by 
forgetting to capitalize:

    mineral = raw_input( "Mineral: " )
    mineral = mineral.lower()
    # now compare against all-lowercase versions of mineral

Also, consider giving your users information about what minerals are 
available (so they don't have to guess), maybe even letting them choose 
them from a list that you display (to avoid problems with spelling, I'm 
sure *I* would mis-spell Chalcopyrite, for instance).

Oh, and one last idea, this one for making this easier on yourself:

    minerals = {}
    for line in open( 'mineraltable.csv' ):
        name, information = line.split( '\t', 1)
        minerals[ name ] = (name, information)

that is, don't store your mineral information in your program, store it 
in another file and read it in programmatically.  This is a good general 
practice, so no reason not to learn it sooner rather than later.  The 
above code, of course, will only work if you have a single line of text 
for each mineral.  I'll let you figure out how to make it work for more 
than that.

And finally, regarding the project itself, you may find that it's viewed 
as being more creative if you make it a simple game... you'll also 
likely find it easier if you ask for help earlier, and thus without the 
urgency ;) .  Oh, and again, as noted by someone else, asking on the 
tutors list is a good idea.

Good luck,
Mike


Gavin Bauer wrote:

> Please respond ASAP, the project is due soon.
>  
> In science, we are doing a "creative mini project" about minerals. 
> People can write a song, or make a movie, etc. etc. Being the dry, 
> uncreative person I am, I chose to use my limited python knowledge to 
> create a "Mineral Program" the idea is that a person inputs a mineral 
> name, and then the program gives them all the information about the 
> mineral. At first I figured this would be easy. I would make an input 
> line for mineral. Then I would use and if statement, and a whole bunch 
> of elif statements, to give the info, here is the broken program I 
> came up with:
>  

...

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Oct 15 12:34:35 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:34:35 GMT
Subject: automatic accessors to a member var dict elements?
References: <mailman.4968.1097781955.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mu7sfs68m1q28@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmv0fp.ru4.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <416ff52a.337140272@news.oz.net>

On 15 Oct 2004 08:30:02 GMT, Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> wrote:

>Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
>>      class MyClass(object):        # ensure a new-style class
>>          def __init__(self):
>>              self.m_dict = {'one':1, 'two':2, 'three':3}
>>          def __getattr__(self, attr):
>>              value = self.m_dict.get(attr, None)
>>              if value is None:
>>                  raise AttributeError(attr)
>>              return value
>>          def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
>>              self.m_dict[attr] = value
>> 
>>  I'm using a new-style class to take advantage of improvements in 
>>  attribute lookup.  For this class, __getattr__()/__setattr__() will only 
>>  be called if attr isn't found through the normal attribute resolution 
>>  rules. 
>
>It doesn't!
Oops, I missed that too, as I was focusing on the if-value-is-None logic,
>
>>>> class MyClass(object):        # ensure a new-style class
>...     def __init__(self):
>...         self.m_dict = {'one':1, 'two':2, 'three':3}
>...     def __getattr__(self, attr):
>...         value = self.m_dict.get(attr, None)
>...         if value is None:
>...             raise AttributeError(attr)
>...         return value
>...     def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
>...         self.m_dict[attr] = value

Maybe:

 >>> class MyClass(object):        # ensure a new-style class
 ...     def __init__(self):
 ...         object.__setattr__(self, 'm_dict', {'one':1, 'two':2, 'three':3})
 ...     def __getattr__(self, attr):
 ...         if attr == 'm_dict': return object.__getattribute__(self, attr)
 ...         try: return self.m_dict[attr]
 ...         except KeyError: raise AttributeError(attr)
 ...     def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
 ...         self.m_dict[attr] = value
 ...
 >>> mc = MyClass()
 >>> mc.two
 2
 >>> mc.three
 3
 >>> mc.four
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 7, in __getattr__
 AttributeError: four
 >>> mc.four = 4
 >>> mc.four
 4
 >>> mc.m_dict
 {'four': 4, 'three': 3, 'two': 2, 'one': 1}

>... 
>>>> obj = MyClass()
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  File "<stdin>", line 3, in __init__
>  File "<stdin>", line 10, in __setattr__
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>[snip]
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
>RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
>
>I know there is something different about new style classes in this
>area, but thats not it!
>
You can make self.m_dict raise an attribute error too, but then you can't
write your methods with self.m_dict, since that will trigger recursion.
object.__getattribute__(self, 'm_dict') instead.

Bottom line, though: Why use self.m_dict when you get self.__dict__ for free,
along with attribute access? I.e., self.x is effectively self.__dict__['x']

IOW, self.__dict__ works like you went to all that trouble to make self.m_dict work,
unless your class defines class variables or properties that you want to shadow under
all circumstances.



Regards,
Bengt Richter


From luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt  Fri Oct 22 16:15:22 2004
From: luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt (Luis P. Mendes)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:15:22 +0100
Subject: backslash plague
In-Reply-To: <2tt7a2F22u502U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2tt4b2F24cffeU1@uni-berlin.de> <2tt7a2F22u502U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2tt7mnF243lfcU1@uni-berlin.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

thanks!

I was just considering the effect of back slashes in the search/replace
criterium and not in the string itself.  Thank you again!

Luis
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBeWpaHn4UHCY8rB8RAtK+AJ421wDXodQ0zCM9AoDuayojh+uFUQCeJPL2
rBWMVP36h6SBKLvqcWecBw4=
=R4+I
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Oct 14 08:09:50 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:09:50 +0200
Subject: Problem with logging module
References: <78406811.0410130851.5cf73a75@posting.google.com>
	<ckjpbd$o0b$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<78406811.0410140401.4d466185@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cklqac$3il$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Steve Erickson wrote:

> Thanks.  Coming from C++, I thought that the local logger instance in
> each test method would go away when I went out of the context of the
> method.  Sounds like the logging class in Python maintains artifacts
> that affect instantiations in other methods.  Or maybe I'm confused
> about how Python handles local versus class variables.

Nothing to do with python - its the way logging is designed, and it makes
sense: if at one place you attach the logger named foo.bar to a handler,
and at another place obtain a reference to foo.bar to log some stuff, you
don't want to reiterate the whole handler-attaching stuff.

So you simply abused the logging module - just set up the logger once, and
then obtain a reference to it using logging.getLogger whenever you need it
- that totally rids you of your logger class, that so far doesn't do much
anyway. Like this:

------
logger = logging.getLogger(name)
logger.propagate = False
handler = logging.FileHandler(dir + '/' + name + '.log')
logger.addHandler(handler)

class Test:

    def test_me(self):
        logger = logging.getLogger(name)
        logger.debug("test_me")

------


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Mon Oct 25 07:13:03 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:13:03 +0200
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-function
 o   verloading.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5414.1098701076.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5414.1098701076.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clin3v$ilg$1@news.sap-ag.de>

Doran_Dermot at emc.com wrote:
>   def title( self, title=None ):
>     if title == None:
>       return self._title
>     self._title = title

You probably meant
   def title( self, title=None ):
     if title == None:
        return self._title
     else:
        self._title = title

or every read access would clear the attribute.

1. Some people dislike methods that do very different things depending 
on the parameters. These are difficult to explain. Though in your case, 
one central explanation and links from all the methods should be enough.

2. None is often a useful value, so perhaps you should use a module 
local variable like _GetValue (actual value is irrelevant)
     def title (self, title = _GetValue):

Daniel


From light at soton.ac.uk  Fri Oct  1 05:04:21 2004
From: light at soton.ac.uk (Mark Light)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:04:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Adding a command to a Pmw.counter widget
References: <cjgeu5$6i1$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
	<mailman.4131.1096549040.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cjj6il$1ue$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>

Martin Franklin wrote:

> Mark Light wrote:
> > Hi,
> >    I have a Pmw.Counter widget and I would like to add a command
> > that is called on pressing either the up or down arrows (the
> > command will be the same for both). I have managed to do this for
> > the entryfield with "entryfield_command = ", but can't get the same
> > to work for the arrows, could someone help me out with how to do
> > this.
> > 
> 
> Looking at the source for the PmwCounter it doesn't look like it
> exposes the buttons callbacks.
> 
> I think the best way to do this would be to provide a validator
> method to the Counter's entryfield.  The validator gets called
> whenever the entryfields value changes.
> 
> Example validator methods are included in the Pmw documentation.
> 
> Martin

Thanks - this put me on the right track


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 17:52:52 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:52:52 -0300
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <du7is9qw9ue.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4231.1096844832.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410040223.4aa4f24b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4239.1096896657.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl55lu.yovfmt1kquac3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4257.1096908736.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7is9qw9ue.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <864d370904100414526f4c5958@mail.gmail.com>

On 04 Oct 2004 22:40:25 +0300, Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
> >>>>> "Carlos" == Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>     Carlos> During the learning process, more often than not I would
>     Carlos> try to solve *all* problems with a metaclass, as if it was
>     Carlos> the only tool available.  Now that I'm starting to feel
>     Carlos> comfortable, things start to fall back into the correct
>     Carlos> perspective once again. But of course, now I'm better
>     Carlos> equiped with a powerful addition to my toolset :-) Let's
>     Carlos> not abuse it though.
> 
> Good idea. If I was to review a piece of code that introduced a
> metaclass (as opposed to just using one that came with a framework), I
> would be prone to ask the author whether he really exhausted *all* the
> other avenues before going the metaclass route. Not documenting
> metaclasses in the standard, bundled documentation is a good thing.

While we agree on the use of metaclasses, I hav to strongly disagree
with your opinion regarding documentation. Advanced stuff doesn't need
to be explained in the tutorials, of course, but the reference manual
should contain more information -- after al, it's *the* reference
manual, isn't it?

(btw some people consider the source code to be the authoritative
source of information. I don't agree, I believe that source code,
independent of how well crafted and beautiful, is not a substitute for
good documentation. Even the best code sometimes fails to give
important metainformation, such as the context, history or intentions
of the programmer. Literate programming is a good way to get the two
concepts -- source code and docs -- together, though.)

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From martin_ml at parvat.com  Thu Oct 28 04:00:00 2004
From: martin_ml at parvat.com (Martin Atkins)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 01:00:00 -0700
Subject: passing a socket to a spawned process.
References: <5d00592f.0410110923.2bb2b1ea@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4718.1097519079.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1glkjad.ckwu451mkf5mxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4842.1097673119.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fa2c4bf8.0410280000.6d937d6e@posting.google.com>

I recently wrote a c module for Python, for passing file descriptors and process
credentials down unix domain sockets under Linux. (using sendmsg(2))

It was pretty easy, and I could send it to anyone interested. Contact me
off-list, since I don't normally read this group.

Perhaps there is a need for a OS-independant wrapper around versions
specifically for Linux, Windows, Solaris, etc?

Martin


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 06:20:27 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:20:27 +0200
Subject: how do i change from string to list
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>
	<417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<417c1cda$0$152$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<c76ff6fc.0410241958.7222d1f0@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5408.1098688267.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clib6b$9ur$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<kQ2fd.6581$KJ6.5016@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1gm7ojd.1s273t611qpc84N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
   ...
>  >>> import cStringIO
>  >>> f = cStringIO.StringIO()
>  >>> for c in list("this is a test"):
> ...   f.write(c)

f.writelines(list('this is a test'))

would appear to me a more natural approach than the loop.  Yeah, the
method's name sucks -- it doesn't just write *lines*, etc.  I guess it
originally came from some sort of parallel with 'readlines'.


Alex


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 08:45:05 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:45:05 -0300
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <416212A9.2030300@fastmail.fm>
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<mailman.4261.1096912338.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4161a7e3$0$80627$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416212A9.2030300@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <864d37090410050545361c237c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:19:05 -0400, Arich Chanachai
<macrocosm at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Code fragment:
> 
> [Dog fetch:cat]  ---> Dog doesn't know how to fetch cat  --->  Dog
> passes message to human and essentially makes the following call --->
> [Human fetch:cat]  ----> and so forth

Other posters have already pointet out to you some alternatives. If
Dog and Human are both classes, there are many things you can do.

-- If the classes are related in a hierarchy, then the descendent
class will call the superclass method (as in any sane OOP language,
mind you);

-- By providing your own __getattr__ function, you can put yourself in
the position to decide who must fetch the cat. In this case, a code
like this (untested) will do it:

class Human:
    def fetch(self, thing):
        print "Asked to fetch '%s'" % thing
class Dog:
    def __init__(self, owner=None):
        self.owner = owner
    def __getattr__(self, attrname):
        # self.__dict__ contains the local dict of Dog
        message = getattr(self.__dict__, attrname, None)
        if message:
            # message is really a method, anyway...
            return message
        else:
            # asks the owner if it supports the message
            return getattr(self. owner, attrname)

>>> joe = Human()
>>> dog = Dog(joe)
>>> dog.fetch('cat')
Asked to fetch 'cat'

The problem with the code above is that joe.fetch() does not know that
the message 'fetch' was deferred from the dog (the value of self is
bound to the 'joe' instance when the object is created). Of course,
there is a lot of things that you can do to solve this problem; for
example, the 'ownership' relationship could be implemented
bidirectionally, so the owner would know that his dog could be asking
him a favour. Another idea is to use MixIns -- classes that than be
added to another class to provide some functionality, but that leads
to a different type of solution architecturally speaking.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Oct 15 15:36:43 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:36:43 -0700
Subject: automatic accessors to a member var dict elements?
In-Reply-To: <10n053nfigpq461@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.4968.1097781955.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mu7sfs68m1q28@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmv0fp.ru4.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<10n053nfigpq461@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <10n09hj2eg0e42@corp.supernews.com>

Jeff Shannon wrote:

> Nick Craig-Wood wrote:
>
>> I know there is something different about new style classes in this
>> area, but thats not it!
>
>
> Hmmm... Actually, I think that the problem here is that during 
> __init__(), we're trying to set the attribute m_dict, which doesn't 
> exist yet, so it tries to look in self.m_dict to find it...
>
> Modifying __init__() so to use self.__dict__['m_dict'] instead of 
> self.m_dict will likely fix this.  (But I still haven't tested it...)


And, because I'm slacking off on my real work:

 >>> class MyClass(object):
...     def __init__(self):
...         self.__dict__['m_dict'] = {'one':1, 'two':2, 'three':3}
...     def __getattr__(self, attr):
...         try:
...             value = self.m_dict[attr]
...         except KeyError:
...             raise AttributeError(attr)
...         return value
...     def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
...         self.m_dict[attr] = value
...        
 >>>
 >>> obj = MyClass()
 >>> obj.one
1
 >>> obj.two
2
 >>> obj.one = 'won'
 >>> obj.one
'won'
 >>> obj.four = 4
 >>> obj.m_dict
{'four': 4, 'three': 3, 'two': 2, 'one': 'won'}
 >>> obj.five
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "<interactive input>", line 8, in __getattr__
AttributeError: five
 >>>

Hm, that error message is a bit weak.  If we replace the 'raise 
AttributeError(attr)' with '''raise AttributeError("%s instance has no 
attribute '%s'" % (self.__class__.__name__, attr))''', we'll get an 
error message that's much more in line with a 'normal' AttributeError.

 >>> obj.five
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "<interactive input>", line 8, in __getattr__
AttributeError: MyClass instance has no attribute 'five'
 >>>

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 14 03:42:24 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:42:24 +0200
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4834.1097669737.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glm872.msn8nkj45sxdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> The code is as follows -- still with debug code included, and lots of
comments:

Nice!  I must be missing something (what's the role of the '__attr__'
key you're setdefaulting into instance dicts and never using
otherwise?), and there may be enhanceable spots such as:


>             if (isinstance(fobj,StringType) or
>                 isinstance(fobj,IntType) or
>                 isinstance(fobj,FloatType) or
>                 isinstance(fobj,ListType)):

isinstance accepts a tuple as its 2nd arg exactly to avoid this need;
set once, somewhere,

elementaryTypes = StringType, IntType, FloatType, ListType

and then you can typecheck here with just

              if isinstance(fobj, elementaryTypes):

...but if this, or the recommendation to follow PEP 8 (space after
comma, etc) is the most important suggestion I have to offer about your
code, I guess that's a good sign!-)


Alex


From pitkali at NOSPAMinteria.pl  Sun Oct 17 03:15:24 2004
From: pitkali at NOSPAMinteria.pl (pitkali)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:15:24 +0200
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02> <ckr3j8$9fq$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<XNgcd.1933$B34.419@trndny02>
	<5Ikcd.5517$6k2.1064@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<pnocd.3098$bV5.2652@trndny07>
Message-ID: <ckt6d3$ks5$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Chris S. wrote:

> 'abaxile', 'abaze', and 'abbacomes' to the pattern 'ab##'. I'm not an
> expert with rex, but your expression looks correct. What could be
> causing this?

To avoid this, one would have to add to the patterns \b AFAIR, so that it
matches whole words only.

Regards,

-- 
* Piotr (pitkali) Kalinowski * mailto: pitkali (at) o2 (dot) pl  *
*   Registered Linux User No. 282090 * Powered by Gentoo Linux   *
* Fingerprint: D5BB 27C7 9993 50BB A1D2 33F5 961E FE1E D049 4FCD *


From z.sam-No-Spam- at libero.it  Thu Oct 28 05:51:19 2004
From: z.sam-No-Spam- at libero.it (Sam)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:51:19 +0200
Subject: CLEAR INPUT BUFFER
Message-ID: <clqffa$i2r$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

Good day!

I have a problem with Python and the input buffer.
My application must read a barcode from PS2 and then
process it.
The problem is: i have to discard all
characters inserted in buffer while Elaborate(data)
is running.
I tried to clear the buffer using sys.stdin.flush() but
it seem not work.

proc Principale() :
  while True
    # sys.stdin.flush()
    data = sys.stdin.readline()
    Elaborate(data)


proc Elaborate() :
  sleep(5)


I'll apreciate any help!
Thanks




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 31 17:45:24 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 00:45:24 +0200
Subject: List problem
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.5668.1099072329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<v2m9o0d7d1v3h4doumfkmb4djk41u0gb9c@4ax.com>
	<1gmiyon.jvyq1w1ob9r59N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41853d5f.1278687054@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <1gmjqh9.oialil1r1xwffN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
    ...
> >    a[:] = [x for x in a if x != 2]
> >
> >is more concise, idiomatic, and speedy.  No reason to do low-level
> >twiddling with indices and fiddly loops, in cases where a list
> >comprehension can do the job so simply.
> >
> Except maybe if the list is huge, and you don't want to generate a
duplicate, e.g.,
   ...
> Should also be faster for large lists, IWT.

'shud' is a 4-letter word -- i prefer to measure.  Of course, it does
depend what you mean by large/huge -- I hope 10 million items is enough;
and what you're doing exactly -- I've kept 'deleting item 2' as it was
the example that had been used so far.

This is the module for measurement:

def delsome_br(n=1000000, todel=[2]):
    a = range(n)
    i = 0
    for x in a:
        if x not in todel:
            a[i] = x
            i += 1
    del a[i:]
    return a

def delsome_am(n=1000000, todel=[2]):
    a = range(n)
    a = [x for x in a if x not in todel]

and these are the numbers I see:

kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit -s'import br' 'br.delsome_br()'
10 loops, best of 3: 4.44 sec per loop
kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit -s'import br' 'br.delsome_am()'
10 loops, best of 3: 3.92 sec per loop

Python 2.4b1, of course -- somebody SO interested in performance, as to
use those six delicate, fragile low-level lines, instead of the solid,
no-space-for-bugs list comprehension, surely WANTS the performance
pluses of 2.4, anyway;-).

I'm sure platforms and tasks can be devised that make delsome_br faster.
However, personally, I'm not surprised that, on a task I tried to code
as impartially as possible, the "should be faster" fussy, low-level
solution ends up taking _longer_ than the simpler, higher-level one;
it's not always that way, but it matches my general Python experience...
"simple is good, simple is fast, high-level is simple" memes;-).

The tasks ARE a bit time-consuming, as you see (30 times 4+ seconds is
over a couple of minutes per variation...), so I'm not going to dwell
much deeper, but, of course, that's just why I posted everything -- so
ingenious people can sweat it out and find a way to show the lower level
version as faster, with the appropriate combination of platform and
tasks.  Some suggestions...:

The trick would be to hit just the right size of list that will make the
working set of the LC exceed available physical memory, while leaving
the low-level approach with a working set that still fits; the thrashing
will then kill the performance of one, but not the other.  To avoid
having to aim for many tens of millions of items, a machine with scarce
memory or very ineffective VM algorithms would be better -- some old PC
with 64M of RAM and win/98 might be ideal, for example.  Unfortunately I
don't have any machine with less than 640 M any more, even the laptops
(RAM is so cheap, and SO precious to performance, that I can't justify
stinting on THAT, of all items!), so I can't really help much there.


Alex


From dd55 at cornell.edu  Thu Oct 14 11:16:12 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:16:12 -0400
Subject: question on list comprehensions
References: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<416e951c$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <ckm58j$dgj$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

Roberto Antonio Ferreira De Almeida wrote:

> Darren Dale wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I need to replace the following loop with a list comprehension:
>> 
>> res=[0]
>> for i in arange(10000):
>>  res[0]=res[0]+i
> 
> res[0] = (10000 * (10000-1))/2.0   ;-)
> 
>> In practice, res is a complex 2D numarray. For this reason, the regular
>> output of a list comprehension will not work: constructing a list of
>> every intermediate result will result in huge hits in speed and memory.
> 
> Why do you *need* to replace the for loop with a listcomp? Could you
> give more details about what you're doing with the complex array?
> 
> Roberto


OK. As usual, I am having trouble clearly expressing myself. Sorry about
that. Prepare for some physics:

I am simulating diffraction from an array of particles. I have to calculate
a complex array for each particle, add up all these arrays, and square the
magnitude of the result. If I do a for loop, it takes about 6-8 seconds for
a 2000 element array added up over 250 particles. In reality, I will have
2500 particles, or even 2500x2500 particles. 

The list comprehension takes only 1.5 seconds for 250 particles. Already,
that means the time has decreased from 40 hours to 10, and that time can be
reduced further if python is not constantly requesting additionaly memory
to grow the resulting list. 

I guess that means that I would like to avoid growing the list and popping
the previous result if possible, and just over-write the previous result.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sun Oct 31 11:36:56 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:36:56 +0100
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
	<mailman.5652.1099050368.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ueq45F2a9e6eU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<6c6a52-r5t.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<clu3cd$oe$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.10.30.00.47.53.108306@jerf.org>
	<clugqd$ukm$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.10.30.18.18.49.943222@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <cm34b6$el2$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:

> 
> http://xmlrpc.scripting.com/directory/1568/implementations
> 
> I would be surprised you could get one in all those environments, and
> doesn't CORBA have ORB interop concerns rather often?

Not to my knowledge - I've been sucessfully interoperating TAO, Jacorb and a
VB orb without any problems - and that was 4 years ago. There used to be
problems at some time, but they seem to be solved. CORBA is much more
mature than SOAP in that respect - and others as well.

> Besides, how exactly do you get CORBA going in Javascript? Squeak, from a
> quick web search, doesn't have an ORB either. That's just two I plucked
> out of the list.

The OP didn't say much about his environment - so I can only speculate if
there are ORBs for them available. He wanted a feature xmlrpc didn't offer
to him, so I proposed one that for a majority of projects out there is
usable.

> Yes, it is in some sense a step back. That's the whole point. If it
> doesn't meet your needs, don't use it, but it isn't useless, either; if
> CORBA met all needs XML-RPC would never have been created, as it
> post-dates CORBA by quite a lot.

It isn't useless - I use it myself. But its very limited, and if I had the
chance not to use it, I wouldn't. Unfortunately, making php running corba
is a royal pain in the neck, so I had to use xmlrpc. SOAP support is better
in php, but python lacks in that field.

> I know CORBA seems easy to you, I'm willing to bet CORBA would seem easy
> to me. (It can't be worse than COM, from what I hear, and I've engaged in
> mortal combat with that technology a couple of times.) But there is
> still a lot of programmers/scripters who really can't follow it, and
> XML-RPC works better for them. (I speak of users, not implementers.)

Might be - but everybody who feels in the need of IPC should be able to use
it. Invoking an idl compiler and extending the generated server classes
isn't exactly black magic. While the learning curve for corba might be a
little bit steeper in the first place, I think that the headaches caused by
then rolling out your own session/authentication mechanism justify for
this. But this is of course an opininon - I never observed a inexpirienced
programmer choosing either technique.

 
>> But it gets the
>> attention these days, due to clever marketing and the fact that its
>> based on xml - something that seems to be a must these days.
> 
> The latter most likely rather than the former; the "marketing" for XML-RPC
> has been "Here it is, use it if you like." The is no significant company
> behind it, pushing for it, just this one guy, really. SOAP is the one with
> the big marketing push.

Sure, but the marketing hype after SOAP clearly helps xmlrpc - after all,
from a non-proggramers POV (read: management and adminstrators) they are
basically the same: http-driven, thus firewall-compatible, and use xml. I
very well know that soap is _more_ than xmlrpc, can use smtp and so on -
but in 95% of usecases, it will be used in conjunction with http, making it
really close to xmlrpc.


> BTW, the usual solution to the authentication problem is to require a
> username and password on each call. It has its disadvantages, yes, but it
> actually has a couple of security advantages, too. (There is no persistant
> connection you can "break into" and get the privs of the authenticated
> account; I forget what this attack is called. **Obviously** there are
> other concerns, I'm just pointing this one thing out.) If authentication

I see these two as equal - in fact, a session at least can only be captured
once and only in a limited time window, where using name/password everytime
gives an attacker the key to the system at any time. Preventing either of
them only works through a secured comm-channel, like https.

And furthermore, they're basically the same - its simply a piece of data
associated with the request - no big difference here.

SOAP at least allows for http headers to be used for this for the connection
as whole, so you can e.g. with axis establish a session mechanism. But this
exactly is one of the grey areas pointed out before - it won't interoperate
between implementatitons. And the xmlrpc-hack suggested by roger binns even
needs tweaking at a deeper level.

> takes a long time, cache it on the server side. It may seem clumsy but it
> isn't much different than the HTTP solution with cookies (one way or
> another you are passing a handful of bytes of extra state to the server),

Exactly.

> and it's not like it isn't trivial to fix in any real language with a
> wrapper or something. XML-RPC has real problems on large scale use but

So you end up writing wrappers - I've done that myself, of course that works
- but corba _generates_ these wrappers for you....

> authentication is hardly one of them. You don't use XML-RPC when
> processing bajillions of queries where the overhead of parsing XML would
> be signficant is your goal. Outside of that, while persistent connections
> might be nice, they would complexify the spec and smack of premature
> optimization.

Calling often wanted features premature optimization strikes me  a bid odd -
nearly any application that needs to communicate over several calls needs
to have some sort of session scheme, with or without authentication. And as
the underlying protocols have means to deal with such information, I wonder
why the people specifying xmlrpc as well as soap didn't think of that -
after all, we're in the 21st century, and all serious webapps make use of
sessions - cookie or url-based. So why do the specs lack in that field?

To me it looks as if they're unneccesarily reinvent the wheel, and the wheel
is close to beeing square right now. Maybe it shapes up - bdt until then,
lots of time and money has been invested to overcome the shortcomings of a
square wheel.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From .  Tue Oct 12 13:51:22 2004
From: . (pythonnewbie)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:51:22 +0100
Subject: Python Newbie. Python on PPC, please assist.
References: <2qudnV1KKuD7RfvcRVnyhg@pipex.net>
	<uqydnWcPC8IgsfXcRVnygg@pipex.net>
Message-ID: <J7Wdnf1EnOQHhPHcRVnysg@pipex.net>

Thanks for the reply. I have been playing with Python etc on the desktop,
but it's useful on the PPC for trying things out while travelling. I can
learn on the bus etc then.!
I will certainly join the mailing list, and it'd be great if we could sort
out the problem there.
I won't be able to for about a week though, but I look forward to sorting it
out then.
Many thanks again!
"pythonnewbie" <.> wrote in message news:uqydnWcPC8IgsfXcRVnygg at pipex.net...
> Many thanks for your help! I now have Python 2.3.4 installed and running
on
> the ppc :) You are correct I had to get the ARM release for my device, and
> the murkworks one certainly seems to be out of date.
> The pythonCE mailing list sounds great- any idea how i can join this?
> You mentioned Tk/Tkinter and Tk/Tcl- are these two different development
> enviroments?
> I had heard about the raw_input limitation, and also heard that the
solution
> was to use a dialog box for text input.. I am yet to find out how to put
in
> a dialog box (there doesn't appear to be a function to get text input from
a
> dialog box...) being so new to all this...
> You mentioned that the port had just the standard lib.. Is there any
(easy)
> way of adding extra libs? I wanted to add the easygame lib and I put it in
> what I thought was the appropriate folder on the PPC, and it wouldn't
> recognise it.... I put the .pyc easygame lib in, as well as the .py, as
all
> the files in the folder appeared to be complied ones (.pyc). Still no
luck.
> Many thanks again for all your help!
> P.S. I am new to newsgroups too... I am using Outlook Express to post,
> however the replies don't seem to show up in Outlook Express.. When I
check
> in Outlook Express, it says my original message has no replies, but when I
> checked using Google groups, hey presto- there were your two replies! Any
> ideas what I'm doing wrong?
> "pythonnewbie" <.> wrote in message
news:2qudnV1KKuD7RfvcRVnyhg at pipex.net...
> > Hi All. I'm just starting to learn programming using Python. I am new to

> > programming so please be patient with me!
> > I found this for Pocket PC:
> > http://www.murkworks.com/Research/Python/PocketPCPython/PPCPythonR2Notes
> > I tried installing it and for some reason it would not work. Having
> > installed it,  clicking on the program gives the error
"PocketPCPython.exe
> > or one of it's components cannot be found", even though I am directly
> > clicking on the exe, and even after much fiddling making sure all the
> files
> > are there.
> > I'm not a newbie as far as pda's go, so I'm a little confused as to why
> it's
> > not working.
> > What I really want to know though, is what it actually, does before I go
> > about spending time getting it working. I mean, is it a development
> > environment, like IDLE, or does it just install the Python libraries so
> you
> > can run Python programs on a PPC, or what? As I said, I am a complete
> > programming newbie so sorry if I'm talking rubbish.
> > I'd be really greatful if someone could tell me what the Python PPC
> program
> > is/does. Also if there are any other (better) programs for Python on
PPC.
> > And if anyone has any ideas why the install didn't work on the PPC, I'd
be
> > greatful for advice on that too.
> > Many thanks in advance.
> >
> >
>
>




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  3 10:53:45 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:53:45 +0200
Subject: elementtree -
References: <e9ece60a.0410030229.28dda312@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cjp3lr$99i$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jesper Olsen wrote:

> I'd like to output the element "<span>&nbsp;</span>"
> and I try this
>
> w=XMLWriter(f)
> w.element("span", "&nbsp;", id="txt")
>
> But that does not work because "&nbsp;" gets escaped to "&amp;nbsp;"
> - and using " " does not work either because space does not get
> escaped...
> Is there a way to do this?

use chr(160).

("&nbsp;" isn't a standard XML entity, and the simple writer doesn't support
custom entities.)

</F> 





From johng2001 at rediffmail.com  Sat Oct 16 02:12:30 2004
From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 23:12:30 -0700
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
	<ad180$416d49e3$51604868$18466@nf1.news-service-com>
Message-ID: <ba129ce7.0410152212.3d124886@posting.google.com>

> One thing nobody has mentioned yet is your statement that for CORBA
> you "have to have a server running". That is one of the common myths
> about CORBA. For CORBA to work, there is no need for some kind of
> separate server. Processes using CORBA talk to each other directly,
> not through some other server.

Hi Duncan,
  I found out about the pleasure of CORBA for the first time with your
omniORBPy. That said, I am thinking of my components not to be
seperate processes (OK! I won't call them servers :-) ) running all
the time. Take an ActiveX control for example. It is an in-process
component, comes to life only when a client application creates it and
consumes zero memory otherwise. Deployment is simpler than deploying a
daemon. This was what I wanted. I did not need to preserve state
across clients. I think you are pointing to something akin to IPC like
DDE. If you think CORBA can be used like an ActiveX in-process
control, please let me know how.

Thanks.


From daniel at syrinx.net  Sat Oct  2 16:55:39 2004
From: daniel at syrinx.net (Daniel Ellison)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 16:55:39 -0400
Subject: limitations of current logging package
In-Reply-To: <cjmsug$m3o$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <2e37dc1.0409230442.7e74543d@posting.google.com>
	<4edc17eb.0409232031.66ad3d4e@posting.google.com>
	<2e37dc1.0409260220.6ad5cb6c@posting.google.com>
	<JqSdnXgsbLTkosXcRVn-vw@powergate.ca>
	<2e37dc1.0410020754.739f8744@posting.google.com>
	<cjmsug$m3o$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2s8im5F1icf99U1@uni-berlin.de>

Michael Hoffman wrote:
> Vinay Sajip wrote:
> 
>> The following documentation, which is in  CVS for Python and will be
>> part of the next release, does give information for simple usage:
>>
>> http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/minimal-example.html
> 
> 
> +1! I think that makes the example much less intimidating.
> 
> I don't understand why it is in the middle of the table of contents 
> instead of at the beginning or end. And personally I would take some of 
> the stuff off the module root page and put it on a subpage so the table 
> of contents can be seen immediately... but that is just me. <wink>
> 
> Thanks for this great module!

Excellent documentation, but it DWOMM (doesn't work on my machine(s)). 
Python 2.3.3 on Debian (Linux kernel 2.4.26) and Cygwin (Win2kPro) both 
claim that "basicConfig() takes no arguments (4 given)".

Has the API changed since the docs at that link?

Dan


From ville at spammers.com  Mon Oct 11 14:03:22 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 21:03:22 +0300
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du7oej9p1xx.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Clark" == Clark C Evans <cce at clarkevans.com> writes:

    Clark> def somerandomname(args):
    Clark>     body
    Clark> func(arg, somerandomname)

    Clark> So, you've taken something that is a perfectly clear
    Clark> one-liner and converted it into a 3 line chunk of code with
    Clark> _zero_ added clarity, in fact, I'd say you've dramatically
    Clark> reduced clarity by requiring the a name be 'minted'.  Ugly.

What does "minting" a name mean?

You can always do

def L(args): body

func(arg, L)

You can even make it a habit to always call it L.

    Clark> Expect me to whine very loudly on a daily basis when Python
    Clark> 3000 becomes near.  In fact, let the preemptive
    Clark> supplication begin.

Heh, I can already anticipate the whining around py3000. It will
probably be a test bed for hundreds of new voting methods and give
sociology students thesis-fodder for years.

    Clark> Ewww.  How is this better than lambda? Let's keep lambda,
    Clark> no?

I agree. Lambda doesn't suck anymore, so it deserves to live. 

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From steve_g at ix.netcom.com  Mon Oct 18 20:34:57 2004
From: steve_g at ix.netcom.com (Steve Goldman)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:34:57 GMT
Subject: Recursive function to develop permutations
Message-ID: <RiZcd.840$5i5.671@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Hi,

I am trying to come up with a way to develop all n-length permutations of a
given list of values.  The short function below seems to work, but I can't
help thinking there's a better way.  Not being a computer scientist, I find
recursive functions to be frightening and unnatural.  I'd appreciate if
anyone can tell me the pythonic idiom to accomplish this.

Thanks for your help,

Steve Goldman

###START CODE###

def permute(list,n,initialize=True):
    """A recursive function that returns a list of all length n ordered
permutations of "list", length k."""
    if initialize:
        global permutation, permutation_list
        permutation=[]    #This list holds the individual permutations.  It
is built one element at a time
        permutation_list=[]    #This list is the list that will contain all
the permutations
    n=n-1    #This counts down for each element of the permutation.  It is a
local variable,
                 #so each subsequent function call has n reduced by one
    for e in list:
        permutation.append(e)
        if n>0:    #that is,the permutation needs additional elements
            permute(list,n,False)
        else:    # the permutation is length n
            permutation_list.append(permutation[:])    #store the completed
permutation
        permutation.pop(-1)    # knock off the last value and go to the next
element in "list"
    return permutation_list


if __name__=='__main__':
    list=['red','white','blue','green']
    print permute(list,3)





From wendum.denis at pasdepourriels.edf.fr  Tue Oct 12 09:15:19 2004
From: wendum.denis at pasdepourriels.edf.fr (denis wendum)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:15:19 +0200
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
Message-ID: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>

In a nutshell:
What is the equivalent of __radd__ (wich overloads the right hand side
of +) when overloading the comparison operators <,>,== and so on. My
first guess __rlt__ for
overloading the rigth hand side of < did not work.
Expanded version:
In a class of numbers I have been able to overload the four arithmetic
operators +,-,* and / by defining the methods __add__ and __radd__
(etc..) in my class. This enables me to evaluate expressions
"instance_of_my_class+"instance_of_my_class" ,"instance + non_instance"
(with __add__) as well as "non_instance+instance"(with __radd__).
But my guess to define the method __rlt__ in my class in order to be
able to evaluate expressions "non_instance < instance" did not work.
So what are the names (if they exist at all) of the comparison operators
<,>,== and so on,  when one wants to exend their rigth hand side to a
user defined (instance of a) class?

In case of direct e-mail response please remove the french translation
of nospam in my signature, that is to say the string  :
pasdepourriels.



From see at below.invalid  Sat Oct 23 21:00:10 2004
From: see at below.invalid (Paul Foley)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:00:10 +1300
Subject: Interesting coding idea
References: <2tvup4F24iddjU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <m2ekjpc4md.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:54:55 -0300, Bruno R Dias wrote:

> Perhaps it would be interesting to program a virtual machine simulating 
> an ancient computer (such as the pdp-7). Then, it would be rather 
> interesting to code for it (porting gcc to it maybe?). I think it would 
> be fun to play with the long-forgotten art of coding in machine language.

http://simh.trailing-edge.com

-- 
Malum est consilium quod mutari non potest             -- Publilius Syrus

(setq reply-to
  (concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(#\@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))


From adurdin at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 19:23:58 2004
From: adurdin at gmail.com (Andrew Durdin)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:23:58 +1100
Subject: python vs c#
In-Reply-To: <9j6ul0db19k6rrmfjbs6kgjar0ldagfoji@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.4166.1096612732.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<9j6ul0db19k6rrmfjbs6kgjar0ldagfoji@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <59e9fd3a041003162370472ca8@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 14:31:05 -0700, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:
> 
> I was going to object to this statement.  I went to my good friend "Google"
> to look up some references but "a number of" is very common and thus
> difficult to search for.

Not at all:

"+a number +of * have" -- about 1,280,000 results
"+a number +of * has" -- about 28,800 results


From firemoth at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 03:20:37 2004
From: firemoth at gmail.com (Timothy Fitz)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 03:20:37 -0400
Subject: python file versioning
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410251912.3baaaaf3@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250506.1d679430@posting.google.com>
	<cliv0l$ah6$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5425.1098714195.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clj363$acl$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410251912.3baaaaf3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <972ec5bd04102600205054adf1@mail.gmail.com>

> file mod_22:
> from __future__ import nifty_feature
> import bar
>
> file mod_23:
> import bar
>
> app.py:
>
> import sys
>
> if sys.version_info[:2] == (2,2):
>     import mod_22 as mod
> else:
>     import mod_23 as mod

No need for all of that, from __future__ import feauture becomes a
no-op if you use it on a version that already has the feature (for
instance, from __future__ import generators)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 06:15:14 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:15:14 +0200
Subject: what are the most popular building and packaging
	tools	for	python ??
References: <5a309bd30410250301b26f445@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.5441.1098730188.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm8i53.1ghjcha10td2q4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417d7513.765059317@news.oz.net>
	<mailman.5491.1098775920.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm9eo8.fp3g5ucaxw9cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5497.1098783305.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm9irj.k7crg9v5m2mfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

kosh <kosh at aesaeion.com> wrote:
   ...
> One of the thing that makes those kinds of webservices different is that you
> can easily leave. Yes google is currently the best but there are lots of
> other search engines that are good enough and would get better pretty rapidly
> if google went nuts, vanished etc. That is part of the degree of protection
> since the person is not really locked in google has to behave or lose them.

Right, and exactly the same applies to any closed-source app that
doesn't hijack your data.  Consider Google Mail: are you going to
regularly download copies of everything to be safe?  Possibly, then you
have the exact equivalent of an application which is closed-source but
has an 'export' function (as they all SHOULD have).


> > Some tolerance for closed source is one thing, hijacking users' data is
> > the bit that REALLY makes me see red!-)
> 
> There is no doubt this should exist I have just seen a number of cases where
> it does not and companies get screwed pretty badly.

You're preaching to the choir on this point.  Let's debate closed-source
apps _with_ a decent import/export function to standard or anyway easily
accessible data formats.


> > And Bengt's idea (apart from requiring a highly specialized CPU in lieu
> > of pretty generic network access) doesn't appear to be any more
> > objectionable than web services, either.
> 
> The webservice one is much less of a burden on the system. You can upgrade

Sure, it runs on another system.  But it's more of a burden on your
network, which roughly may even things out.

> your computer, use it from a different computer, use it through a proxy etc.
> The application running on your machine tied to some id on your cpu you can't
> do that with. Many web services even work with a wide range of browsers so
> you are not tied into any given os, browser, hardware platform etc.

I wish more web services did support a wide variety of clients (not just
browsers, of course), but, sure.  But the point is a webservice which
does require you to authenticate to exploit it fully (as google does:
the google API requires you to register w/them, they do NOT want you to
just screenscrape from them even though they can't fully stop you...
yet).  If your machine's ID changes, a supplier will be happy to sell
you some "hardware upgrade" service w/a new license (we did that
routinely at my previous employer, even though the ID was just something
we synthesized ourselves, quite crackably); just as a commercial
supplier of a webservice requiring authentication will be happy to sell
you more bandwidth, more diskspace use on their servers, and so on.

The difference in business models is nowhere as drastic as you make it,
in other words.
 
> Yes your data can still be locked in a proprietary format kept only on the
> server so you never see it except to see reports on that data and I suspect
> that does happen but many services make it very easy to get all of your data
> out of the system. 

So do many proprietary closed source applications, though (just like for
webservices) definitely not all of them.  Data hijacking is a completely
separate issue, and, as I said, one of my hobbyhorses anyway, so let's
leave it out of a debate where it doesn't really enter.


> So while the webservices can do some of the negative things the crypto cpu
> would it also automatically makes many things far better. If my computer

Nothing automatic about it.

> takes a lightning strike I can use another computer to use the webservice
> right away. With the crypto app you are pretty much screwed until you go
> through the whole authorization song and dance.

So does the webservice, if it uses (e.g.) IP address as part of your
authentication (quite a few do, to avoid the obvious piracy idea of
paying for 1 computer using it then use it from five -- of course, these
days, with NATs and dynamic IPs, it's more likely that there will be
involved such things as certificate files... which will go if your
computer takes a lightning strike...:-).


Alex


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Mon Oct  4 11:25:32 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:25:32 +0200
Subject: Python and C#
References: <10m2la510rpeq86@corp.supernews.com>
	<vy06duxaf28u$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
	<mailman.4248.1096901291.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c66lmnoezrx8$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Gerhard Haering (2004-10-04 16:47 +0200)
> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 03:59:33PM +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:
>> py2exe is easier to setup but McMillan offers more functionality.
> 
> The old site www.mcmillan-inc.com is dead since months. Has Gordon disppeared
> completely

Out of job I heard :-(.

> or is his stuff available somewhere else now?

* Distributing Python Apps
  http://paulbaranowski.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloadsimpledetails&lid=8&title=Gordon%20McMillan's%20Installer
  http://paulbaranowski.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=8

...and a few other mirrors mentioned in thread recently. Google for it
if you care about the mirrors.

Thorsten


From b.niemann at betternet.de  Fri Oct  8 10:00:32 2004
From: b.niemann at betternet.de (Benjamin Niemann)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:00:32 +0200
Subject: How to determine if a file is busy?
In-Reply-To: <1glcgbr.qld3ehfedxarN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <c89d662c.0410080246.52ed9407@posting.google.com>
	<ck5uiv$hhj$1@online.de> <1glcbu7.po1w0e8mxyl6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4572.1097237826.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glcgbr.qld3ehfedxarN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ck66a1$qnk$1@online.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Andreas Kostyrka <andreas at kostyrka.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 01:54:03PM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
>>
>>>Benjamin Niemann <b.niemann at betternet.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>How about writing the data to a file 'mydata.new' and when you are
>>>>finished, delete 'mydata' and rename 'mydata.new' to 'mydata'. This
>>>>way the python script will always get 'complete' files (and sometimes
>>>>no file at all, when it come in between rm and mv ...)
>>>
>>>I believe that 'mv' on Mac OS X, within a normal filesystem, is an
>>>atomic operation anyway -- so, so need to rm first then mv.  On the
>>>other hand, this would give no intrinsic guarantee that the datafile
>>>previously produced HAS been consumed/recorded before it's removed.
>>
>>Then the consumer of that file should remove it afterwards.
> 
> 
> Possibly, but that, per se, doesn't mean a file can't get deleted
> without ever having been used.  If the producer must wait for the
> deletion (not necessarily easy in AppleScript, I believe) then the
> producer could be stalled by the implied 1-length 'queue'...
> 
> I'm not sure about the best solution because I'm unsure about the exact
> abilities of AppleScript, where the Python script is running (on Windows
> with a [EEK] SMB share to the Mac, or on the Mac itself), etc...

The AppleScript could rename the .new file to .[timestamp], producing a new file 
for each iteration. The Python script would consume & delete all .[timestamp] 
files in lexical order, but must ignore the .new file if it happens to be there.


From fumanchu at amor.org  Fri Oct  1 00:57:02 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:57:02 -0700
Subject: A newbie in more need....
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F23@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Chris Patton wrote:
> I am writing a program that writes a number of classes, which are all
> fundementally the same thing. The only thing that is different is the
> names. Therefore, I need to write a bunch of classes in the quickest
> time I can. Here's what I was thinking of:
> 
> num = 1
> while num < 20:
>       exec 'class bug'+num+':'
>       exec '      gender = "m"'
>       exec '      size = 0'
>       exec '      skill = 0'
> 
> Obviously, the "exec" statement severley slows the time it takes to
> write these classes. I need a new method! If possible I would like to
> avoid the use of the "exec" statement alltogether.

classtest.py
----
import types

for x in xrange(20):
    n = 'bug%s' % x
    globals()[n] = types.ClassType(n, (object,),
                                   {'gender': 'm', 'size': 0,
                                    'skill': 0})

del n
del x

----

>>> import classtest
>>> dir(classtest)
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'bug0', 'bug1',
'bug10', 'bug11', 'bug12', 'bug13', 'bug14', 'bug15', 'bug16', 'bug17',
'bug18', 'bug19', 'bug2', 'bug3', 'bug4', 'bug5', 'bug6', 'bug7',
'bug8', 'bug9', 'types']
>>> dir(classtest.bug8)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__',
'__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__', '__reduce__',
'__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__', '__weakref__',
'gender', 'size', 'skill']
>>> classtest.bug8.gender
'm'


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From mauriceling at acm.org  Wed Oct 20 17:33:14 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:33:14 GMT
Subject: reverse Jython
In-Reply-To: <1glyebd.1afm95x1ip4x1cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.5172.1098197357.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41759f7d$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<1glyebd.1afm95x1ip4x1cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4176d995$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>


> The latter is an aspect on which we _definitely_ plan to do much better
> in the future, btw -- we have ambitious projects for dissemination of
> information, enhanced documentation, easing the use of pypy for all sort
> of teaching and research support.  But that doesn't resolve your issue
> wrt the "suitable as part of academic work" (=="detached from real-world
> usefulness"); we definitely DO plan to be real-world meaningful!-)
> 
> 

Please don't get me wrong. Academic work need not be detached from 
real-world usefulness, in fact, academic work should have the potential 
to solve real-world problems. I guess it is the time. I think that 
academics should tackle real-world issues when a self-sustaining level 
of core competency is there. It is certainly more difficult to craft an 
academic question out of a real-world situation than to craft one out of 
nothing. The latter can even be a case of grabbing a hypothetical 
question from a text-book...

maurice


From jeffrey at fro.man  Sun Oct 10 14:50:18 2004
From: jeffrey at fro.man (Jeffrey Froman)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:50:18 -0700
Subject: Python email
References: <20041010135948.07384.00002435@mb-m29.aol.com>
Message-ID: <10mj13bcgn25v33@corp.supernews.com>

LutherRevisited wrote:

> I get the message just fine, but I want to pull out of all that just the
> html part.??How?can?I?do?this.

The email and email.Iterators modules offer methods for doing this. For
example:

***************************************************************
# Warning: untested code
import email
from email.Iterators import typed_subpart_iterator

inMail = derived_from_POP3_magic()
my_email = email.message_as_string(inMail)
html_parts = typed_subpart_iterator(my_email, 'text', 'html')

***************************************************************
You may also want to look at email.Iterators.body_line_iterator, useful for
bypassing the headers in each part of the email.

Jeffrey


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 16:55:50 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 20:55:50 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5452.1098737135.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417d6856$0$45508$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-25, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>Whatever gave you the idea you are obligated to provide support?!
>> 
>> 
>> Experience.
>> 
>> Customers seem to have no problem with not getting source code,
>> but once you _do_ give them source code then you have to
>> support it.  Ignoring customers when they ask questions about
>> the source code has always proven in past experience to be "not
>> an option."
>
> Well, it sounds like an issue for your contract; i.e., an explicit 
> clause about not supporting code that has been modified in any way.

Oh, it says that.

> Or maybe make it explicit that a higher level of support
> contract is required, or something of the sort.  

It says that too.

That doesn't stop them from asking "just one question". Usually
forwaded through sales.

IMO, it's usually worthwile to answer the questions.  It
generates customer loyalty.  But, pretending that it deoesn't
cost time/effort to support GPL'd source code when you give it
to a customer is being delusional.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. I want a COLOR
                                  at               T.V. and a VIBRATING BED!!!
                               visi.com            


From mkrasnyk at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 05:06:32 2004
From: mkrasnyk at gmail.com (Michael Krasnyk)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 02:06:32 -0700
Subject: Print variable values by their names
References: <mailman.5125.1098119864.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <72e80deb.0410190106.5c47fcce@posting.google.com>

"Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.5125.1098119864.5135.python-list at python.org>...

> import sys
> for name in dir(sys):
>     print name, getattr(sys, name)
Thank you for your replies, that is exatly what i need,
Michael


From dingbat at codesmiths.com  Thu Oct 28 06:06:37 2004
From: dingbat at codesmiths.com (Andy Dingley)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:06:37 +0100
Subject: Python AST as XML
References: <1e015c2a.0410272209.3e831f94@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3sg1o0djs6u5o055pvu88610n5k5498i1q@4ax.com>

On 27 Oct 2004 23:09:02 -0700, olepar at gmail.com (Oleg Paraschenko)
wrote:

>maybe of some interest:

Maybe 5 years ago, before we realised what a bad idea it was.


>http://pysch.sourceforge.net/ast.html
>
>[quote]
>XML can be considered as an external representation of in-memory
>tree-like structures, 

Yes. But why would I want to ?   XML is a clumsy _internal_
representation and it's only useful as an external representation if
you need some lowest-common-denominator more than you need a good and
appropriate representation.  The best external representation of
Python is some Python source, not some over-abstracted XML version.


> and XML-related standards as methods of processing such data. 

XML-related protocols don't process data, they process an XML
representation of that data. Their ability to do so is based on the
XML aspect of it, not the underlying data model. This makes them
somewhere between clumsy to develop wiith, or simply incapable of
addressing the problem.

"Lets make all our data standards interwork by using XSLT" was the
theme of late '99.   It didn't work.

-- 
Smert' spamionam


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Oct 10 22:55:15 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:55:15 +1300
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <1gl8kea.1i8zbyrjryq6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<5Wu8d.25573$H11.796921@twister1.libero.it>
	<1gl8cxp.1bwobhn1emgfx1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2JP8d.26848$N45.697634@twister2.libero.it>
	<1gl8kea.1i8zbyrjryq6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2sub0mF1p1dhvU1@uni-berlin.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> An _implementation_ difference, and in fact a pretty minor detail too,
> not any real _language_ difference.

I don't entirely agree with that. In Python, method calling is
not a primitive syntactic construct, it's a combination of two
others, attribute selection and calling. In Smalltalk, on the
other hand, it is a single construct, and there is no construct
for doing just the lookup part (there might be a way of doing
it, but there's no special syntax for it).

It might not be a very *important* difference, but it is a
language difference, and I think it influences how one thinks
about some problems.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Sat Oct  9 23:19:49 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:19:49 -0400
Subject: help me
In-Reply-To: <4168A974.7010405@cloudthunder.com>
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>	<3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>	<mailman.4646.1097373842.5135.python-list@python.org>	<hZidnVmZ96NBOfXcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
	<4168A974.7010405@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <4168AA55.7030504@kzoo.edu>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

> <SNIP>
>
>>
>> Like regular expressions, in the hands of a beginner exec
>> and eval() lead to code that is one or more of dangerous,
>> unreadable, unmaintainable, awkward, or just plain sloppy.
>>
>> -Peter
>
>
> He's got to learn somehow! LOL

Well, I remember looking up the exec keyword and it saying executes a 
string. Thus, it seemed like the normal way to execute a string, lol.

Using globals() makes sense, but using locals() doesn't because it won't 
have the desired effect. locals() returns a _copy_, globals() is an 
actual reference.



From chotty at freenet.de  Mon Oct 11 18:18:04 2004
From: chotty at freenet.de (Christian Otteneuer)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:18:04 +0200
Subject: [Zope] how to send email witch attachment in python
References: <20041011081128.4980C1E400E@bag.python.org>
	<mailman.4688.1097490054.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckf0r7$12ng$1@news.uni-koblenz.de>

"Nico Grubert" schrieb im Newsbeitrag

> it seems you're german, so check out the DZUG (german zope user group) 
> mailing list.
> During the last days there were some posting about sending e-mails with 
> attachments via
> Python and DTML as well.

Thanks for the tip :o)




From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 18:02:27 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:02:27 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <1gl7hm9.axk9rb2z5qtaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gl6dqy.17aec2n1uecu0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.4340.1096988457.5135.python-list@python.org>	<55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>	<mailman.4356.1096994017.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl7hm9.axk9rb2z5qtaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416319F3.9030808@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>Testing skills about doing biblio research, summarizing findings
>thereof, presenting them -- skills which will be crucial to their
>professional lives, and thus ones they should be encouraged to hone and
>practice.  I got lot of that in high school (it _was_ a rather elite
>one) and a little in university (mostly in electives such as Operations
>Research and the like).
>
>The point isn't so much that I remember more about the Roman "cursus
>honorum", the contrasting visions of science practice in Comte, Engels
>and Heisenberg, or alpha-beta pruning and variants thereof, than if I
>had them spoon-fed to me -- none of these areas really made any money
>for me in 25 years of professional practice.  It's the meta-skill of
>researching some field and reporting on it which _did_ stand me in good
>stead throughout this time, notwithstanding the huge technological
>changes in the underlying infrastructure (I haven't had to read a spool
>of microfilm in 30 years or more, and Google's FAR easier to use than
>any library catalog ever was... but the overall mental skill of
>researching, digesting, and synthesizing right back in summary form, is
>still very much the same!).
>
>
>Alex
>  
>
Indeed Alex, I shall have to hone my researching skills (whip out the 
blade sharpener).  I haven't done much since my days in the University 
as a student.  The nice thing about being a professor, which I made 
heavy usage of, is that you can exploit your graduate students and make 
them do all the research and tedious tasks!  Reflecting back though, 
perhaps that was unkind.  It is an integral part of their learning 
experience though. 


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct  8 10:37:04 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:37:04 +0100 
Subject: Quixote Question
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434AF3@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Fuzzyman]
| I think it's an APACHE server, so I should be alright with that. It's
| just that there are two c files in the src directory : _c_htmltext.c
| and cimport.c
| 
| I won't easily be able to compile those *on* the server (I don't
| think). I *might* be able to get the sysadmin to do a proper install -
| but no guarantees.

As far as I can remember, you don't strictly need those two: Quixote
will fall back onto Python equivalents, presumably with some small loss
in performance (but if you're running CGI I doubt you'll notice).

| I haven't even gone through the demo yet - so I don't know much about
| the practicalities *at all*. But I *think* I understand why it will be
| useful. I imagine you build your website as a single application with
| the URLS mapping to function calls etc... 

That's more-or-less it.

| As I will probably have to use standard CGI I will have to implement 
| my own session persistence.

Yes. Quixote comes with session hooks (which I haven't used myself)
but they'll die unless you save them away each time. There's an
example of doing this in at least one of the online tutorials.

| Hmm... how would I do a rewrite ? Send a redirect header ?

Basically: .htaccess. Again, explanations are on the 
setup/howto/beginner guides on the main Quixote site.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
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From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Fri Oct  1 16:07:48 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:07:48 +0100
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:

> spawnv() function, and presumably Perl's system
> as shown above, are distinctly different from
> system(3), in that they execute the command directly
> with the indicated parameters, where system()
> executes the shell to interpret shell command text.
>
> In my opinion Python got this much righter than Perl
> when it used a different name.  

I think who got it righter depends the respective ratios of buggy code; I'd be
not be surprised if only a fraction of python code that simply attempts to run
an external command with certain arguments (and no shell preprocessing) worked
correctly.

I appreciate your point but I suspect that at the moment many people are
extremely likely to do the wrong thing, because it's much more obvious than
the right thing.

So even if changing system is the wrong step, I think there really ought to be
an obvious and simple way to accomplish what perl's system($cmd, @args) does.


> Unlike the case with Popen3, where the same function represents 2 different
> APIs, both the string and the list - I see later in your message you may be
> among the people who have been led astray by that.

BTW what is one supposed to use in lieu of the various popen* commands which
all only accept a cmd string rather than?

>> P.S. speaking of running external processes -- I'm also unaware of a good,
>> platform-independent (or even just unix) way to run a process that possibly
>> accepts input, but will just continue on EOF from stdin and getting back
>> stdout and stderr (if supported) as strings and the exit status.
>> 
>> I currently use this to run e.g. latex, but it doesn't seem to work 
>> absolutely
>> reliably and is unix only. I'm pretty sure there must be a better way.
>
> Yes, but either you use disk files or it's more work.
>
> The unreliability, I imagine is due to limitations of pipes'
> device buffer space.  You're trying to execute the whole
> thing within those limits - you wait() for process exit
> before you have read a byte.  It would be better to read
> output first, since that will terminate when the process
> exits, and then wait() to retrieve the status.  

Hm, I think that might be what I tried first, but that resulted in hangs.

> A fully reliable version needs to select on the two pipes to make sure that
> the error pipe doesn't fill up while you're trying to read all the output.
> Use os.read on the file descriptor so you're on the same page with select().

Based on your suggestion I tried this, but it hangs because the files remain
ready for reading. Do I have to check if nothing has been read from both
stderr and stdout? (I'm not really particularly clued about low-level system
stuff):

def readProcess(cmd, *args):
    r"""Like `os.popen3`, but returns 2 strings (stdin, stdout) and the exit
    code (unlike popen2, exit is 0 if no problems occured (for some bizzarre
    reason popen2 returns None... <sigh>). FIXME: only works for UNIX!"""
    BUFSIZE=1024**2
    import select
    cmdStr = _fixupCmdStr(cmd, args)
    popen = popen2.Popen3(cmdStr, capturestderr=True)
    which = {id(popen.fromchild): [],
             id(popen.childerr):  []}
    try:
        popen.tochild.close() # XXX make sure we're not waiting forever
        while True:
            ready = select.select([popen.fromchild, popen.childerr],[],[])
            for f in ready[0]:
                while True:
                    read = os.read(f.fileno(), BUFSIZE)
                    if not read:
                        break
                    which[id(f)].append(read)
            if not ready:
                break
        out, err = ["".join(which[id(f)])
                    for f in [popen.fromchild, popen.childerr]]
        exit = popen.wait()
    finally:
        try:
            popen.fromchild.close()
        finally:
            popen.childerr.close()
    return out or "", err or "", exit


> Or on the other hand, temporary disk files don't have these problems and are
> of course more portable.

Can you elucidate  a bit further? How do I portably redirect stdout and
stderr to tempfiles, or is that not what you meant?

thanks,

'as



From mauriceling at acm.org  Tue Oct 19 19:13:07 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:13:07 GMT
Subject: reverse Jython
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5172.1098197357.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.5172.1098197357.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41759f7d$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>


> If you dont' _need_ to include Java in your thesis, why not help with
> PyPy? It's the Python interpreter written in Python. It's regarded as
> a important piece of software for experimentation with the Python
> language itself. Give it a look:
> 
> http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?home
> 
> p.s. There is a rumour that the PyPy team secretly believes that they
> can make it run *faster* than CPython. Does it makes it a good thesis?
> ;-)
> 

PyPy, given the secret belief, will make a good project, on-going 
project, collaboration project. The problem lies with the nature of a 
thesis work or any academic project, what academics aims for is to 
publish papers, get money and work on an area.

With a large project like PyPy, the dynamics of academic research breaks 
down as it is real tough to carve a boundary of that you want to do. For 
example, if I say (announce on usenet) that I am working import 
mechanism, I will be hoping that nobody in this world will write the 
same thing before I am done with my thesis. If someone did that before 
me, then the chances of publishing my work drops to near zero. In the 
end, I'll be doing a one-man chase, not unlike running behind a 
MacClaren and trying to catch it...... This is why although PyPy is an 
important piece of work and by achieving that (even slower than Jython) 
will be a proof of concept of python's completeness, it is not quite 
suitable as an part of academic work. Not to mention that it is near 
impossible to get developers' documentation (the rationale behind each 
function and classes)......

This may be why academic research tends towards obscurity, at least 
then, I'll be walking with fellow tortoises and able to enjoy my coffee 
with biscotti, rather than running against a train. This may be why 
universities can develop new OS and new languages etc etc, because it 
fits into the dynamics of academic research and if your project is as 
untouched by the world as possible, your stress level drops. On this 
light, there is a group in University of Washington (I think) that is 
still working on putting type information into assembly language. Pardon 
my ignorance here but ask some researchers on the use of their work and 
it may boil down to academic curiosity.

I do not need to add Java into my thesis but I am trying to use it to 
brush up my Java skills (I hope). Perhaps I am dreaming of a world that 
anything can be written in any programming language (even multiple 
languages in a same script... how many times we get questions like... 
Can Python do ____?) and run on any machines with similar 
efficiencies... But then, maybe reversing the Tower of Babel is 
impossible...

Maurice


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Oct 13 11:13:55 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:13:55 -0300
Subject: gettext support for Linux and Windows
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7A40@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Daniele]

#- Running my apps on windows I can't see any translated string.
#- Please, help me!

I have a working example at home with all the steps detailed, but I don't
have it here at office.

So, Daniele, please email me to my personal account (facundo at taniquetil
dot com dot ar), and I'll send you back that info.

Regards, 

.	Facundo

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From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 18 07:02:48 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:02:48 GMT
Subject: question on list comprehensions
References: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu><560b81a4.0410150936.573bb6c4@posting.google.com><1glsu7d.6cafdj1vxh4ebN%aleaxit@yahoo.com><4172e68d.73213084@news.oz.net>
	<1gltsqx.3sh0uedtr3f0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5099.1098059155.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4173a0f4.120932031@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:25:54 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

>
>"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
>news:1gltsqx.3sh0uedtr3f0N%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
>> If I recall correctly, you can generally find closed-form solutions for
>> summations of polynomials in i.
>
>Yes, as with integrals, the sum of an nth degree poly is (n+1)th degree. 
>The n+2 coefficients for the sum from 0 to k can be determined by actually 
>summing the poly for each of 0 to n+1 and equating the n+2 partial sume to 
>the result poly (with powers evaluated) to get n+2 equations in n+2 
>unknowns.  Even with integral coefficients in the poly to be summed, the 
>coefficients are generally non-integral rationals and can get pretty nasty 
>to calculate, so for exact results, it may well be easier and faster to 
>write and run a program.
>
Got curious, so I automated creating a polynomial based on an integer series:

 >>> from coeffs import getlambda
 >>> getlambda([0,1,2,3])
 'lambda x: x'
 >>> getlambda([1,2,3])
 'lambda x: x +1'
 >>> L = [sum(xrange(i)) for i in xrange(1,10)]
 >>> L
 [0, 1, 3, 6, 10, 15, 21, 28, 36]
 >>> getlambda(L)
 'lambda x: (x**2 +x)/2'
 >>> f = eval(getlambda(L))
 >>> [f(x) for x in xrange(9)]
 [0, 1, 3, 6, 10, 15, 21, 28, 36]
 >>> L2 = [sum([i**2 for i in xrange(j)]) for j in xrange(1,10)]
 >>> L2
 [0, 1, 5, 14, 30, 55, 91, 140, 204]
 >>> f2 = eval(getlambda(L2))
 >>> [f2(x) for x in xrange(9)]
 [0, 1, 5, 14, 30, 55, 91, 140, 204]
 >>> getlambda(L2)
 'lambda x: (2*x**3 +3*x**2 +x)/6'
 >>>

Now we'll try an arbitrary series:
 >>> f3 = eval(getlambda([3,1,1,0,3,5]))
 >>> [f3(x) for x in xrange(6)]
 [3, 1, 1, 0, 3, 5]
 >>> getlambda([3,1,1,0,3,5])
 'lambda x: (-1080*x**5 +13200*x**4 -55800*x**3 +98400*x**2 -69120*x +21600)/7200'

Maybe I'll clean it up some time ;-)
It's a simultaneous equation solver using my exact decimal/rational class for math,
and then formatting the lambda expression for the nonzero polynomial coefficients.
Not very tested, but seems to work.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From meyer at acm.org  Sun Oct 24 05:07:17 2004
From: meyer at acm.org (Andre Meyer)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:07:17 +0200
Subject: Invoker of a method
In-Reply-To: <1gm5ppk.1eccsusa0jd6fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <417b6620$0$766$3a628fcd@reader10.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<1gm5ppk.1eccsusa0jd6fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <417B70C5.9070208@acm.org>

Thanks Alex

I will try this. The need for this is that I have a sort of blackboard 
architecture where multiple threads can modify information and I need to 
  know who is changing what and when.

g
Andre


Alex Martelli wrote:

> Andre Meyer <meyer at acm.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi Pythoneers
>>
>>In an application I am developing I want to register the invoker of a
>>method call. Is there any way to find out who is invoking an object's
>>method? I do not want to rely on the caller telling the callee his name
>>explicitly.
> 
> 
> inspect.currentframe lets you inspect the call frames up the stack,
> including (of course) the caller's one; same as sys._getframe.  However,
> I suggest you reconsider using this in production code, as opposed to
> debugging or other development-framework tasks.  As the docstring says:
> 
> '''
> This function should be used for internal and specialized purposes only.
> '''
> 
> It's not an issue of doing what you desire with one function or another;
> if you do it at all, inspect.currentframe is appropriate.  Rather, the
> issue is that a function _shouldn't_ go rooting around in frames up the
> stack, except for debugging and other instrumentation purposes: such
> "black magic" behavior is not recommended, it damages the important
> quality of transparence.
> 
> Still, Python does give you plenty enough rope to shoot yourself in the
> foot, as befits the principles in the "Spirit of C" which Python also
> follows: trust the programmer, don't stop the programmer from doing
> something that _needs_ to be done.  Just make sure about that 'needs'!-)
> 
> 
> Alex


From ewijaya at singnet.com.sg.removethis  Thu Oct 28 03:25:14 2004
From: ewijaya at singnet.com.sg.removethis (Edward wijaya)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:25:14 +0800
Subject: Data::Dumper for Python
Message-ID: <opsgkj8cih074qab@news.singnet.com.sg>

Hi,

Is there any equivalent of it
in Python?

Thanks so much for your time.

Regards,
Edward WIJAYA


From joewong at mango.cc  Thu Oct 14 22:09:01 2004
From: joewong at mango.cc (Joe Wong)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:09:01 +0800
Subject: Not enough space error?
Message-ID: <005c01c4b25b$f1124150$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>

Hi,

 I have a script that runs on Windows. Last night, it throw an except saying:

IOError Errno 12 not enough space

This happens on the "open()" call. I check and there is plenty of diskspace available on my Windows 2000 box.

What could be the cause of this error here?

Regards,

- Joe



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 2004/10/8
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From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  8 09:19:36 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:19:36 -0400
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
In-Reply-To: <U4h9d.32987$Z14.12264@news.indigo.ie>
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
	<7x1xga495k.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<U4h9d.32987$Z14.12264@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <zbidndQ9vdp1DvvcRVn-rA@powergate.ca>

Alan Kennedy wrote:
> [Fuzzyman <fuzzyman at gmail.com>]
> That's probably the biggest problem, but I would also add the following 
> other problems which will further widen the error margin:-
> 
> 2. With corporate networks, local IP addresses (i.e. the ones you see in 
> X-FORWARDED-FOR headers, etc) tend to be handed out by DHCP-style 
> dynamic allocation. Which means that the head-of-IT's address this week 
> could be the receptionist's address next week.

On the other hand, however, in a DHCP environment where machines are
typically turned off overnight but all on during the day, and where
you aren't running with 0 spare addresses, most machines will be given
the same address as they had the day before when the server processes
the request... but your point is valid, it will increase the error
margin.

Cookies are the way to go.

-Peter


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Fri Oct  8 01:32:46 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 23:32:46 -0600
Subject: run python from a tcl/tk GUI
References: <337e6cd5.0410072056.865c394@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4166267e_2@omega.dimensional.com>

xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com (SunX) writes:

> Just wrote a front-end GUI with tcl/tk to take user input.  Want to
> push a button on the GUI to start running a python script.

Is there a reason not to write the entire GUI in Python and use
Tkinter or wxPython?

> I know one can use exec in tcl to run .exe files, but not .py or
> .pyc, correct?

Sounds like a platform-specific issue; since you mention .exe files,
I assume you're running some flavor of Windows.  One can certainly
run .py and .pyc files from a Tcl/Tk script on Unix-like systems.
What does your code look like?

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Sun Oct  3 15:14:59 2004
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 21:14:59 +0200
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41604fc3$0$44111$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>

"Alia Khouri" <alia_khouri at yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6 at posting.google.com...
> <...snip...>
> Now, I've inherited an environment which is windows-centric, lacking
> in knowledge about scripting, and somewhat sub-standard in terms of
> productivity. I've also inherited a set of pre-existing systems which
> I have to deal with and manage:
>
> - Peoplesoft ERP
> - Java webframework based on webwork/hibernate/jboss/mysql
> - Lotus Notes/Domino
>
> Given this context, I'm mulling over strategies to encourage the
> productivity-enhancing benefits and 'joy' of python scripting to my
> developers. Of course, I'd rather be persuasive than coercive.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Many Thanks.
>
I would recommend to couple the changes to the "hot" topics of the rest of
the organisation. In other words the important and urgent needs. I have
written a short article about this: "From Legacy to State-of-the-art;
Architectural Refactoring"
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/ArchitecturalRefactorin
gPaper.pdf
Besides I would make sure that you promote Python by showing its true value:
high productivity.Do not start to re-implement existing solutions in Python
if there is no clear benefit for the rest of the organisation.

kind regards, Gerrit Muller

--
Praktijk voor Psychosociale therapie Lia Charit?
<www.liacharite.nl>
Gaud? System Architecting:
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/





From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 29 06:58:19 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:58:19 +0200
Subject: globally available objects
References: <mailman.5650.1099046060.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2uemltF28oaedU1@uni-berlin.de>

Steve wrote:

> 
> ehe ...am I making sense to anyone else here ??

You do, but if you put the same amount of time writing this message in
writing a simple test module for yourself and importing it, you've had seen
that it in fact works the way you want it: a module is only imported once.

No offense intended, btw - I just wanted to point out that in python its
common to simply fire up the interpreter and poke around to test things.


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From Roger at see.my.sig  Sun Oct 17 18:01:51 2004
From: Roger at see.my.sig (Roger)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:01:51 GMT
Subject: Python in HTAs
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5091.1098050399.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5091.1098050399.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jZBcd.46015$H11.1607139@twister1.libero.it>

Robby Russell wrote:


> 
> This isn't going to work unless your browser has some special plugin to
> allow python scripts to run in it. Google probably turned up nothing as
> you might be one of the first people to consider this. ;-)
> 

IIRC, years ago there was a Python plug-in for Netscape.....long before 
Mozilla was born.



From lbates at syscononline.com  Thu Oct 21 11:35:34 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:35:34 -0500
Subject: how I restart a process from itself?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5260.1098370484.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5260.1098370484.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rPqdnXPwTLzZSurcRVn-jA@comcast.com>

Paolo Veronelli wrote:
> I want to add a sensible address to my nevow server, so it has to launch 
> an executable that stop itself and restart it.
> 
> I tried os.execl('restart','') but I have a format error and I do not 
> understand the manual page.
> 
> thanks for help
> 
> 
What platform (Windows or Linux)?

If it is Windows you need to write your program as a
Windows service.  Then you can use ServiceManage to
start, stop, and restart it.

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


From lbates at syscononline.com  Tue Oct 19 10:57:05 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:57:05 -0500
Subject: Pointer to Image
In-Reply-To: <a1301a8e.0410190637.74a091ad@posting.google.com>
References: <a1301a8e.0410190637.74a091ad@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0b2dnZuKKYrdtujcRVn-ig@comcast.com>

Chris Jankowski wrote:
> Hi all,
> I am still new to using Python, so bare with me.  I am trying to call
> a DLL from my program to use some of it's functions.  The only
> parameter is supposed to be a pointer to an image.  I have tried
> several variations on passing this parameter to the DLL and I am not
> having much luck.  This is going to call other functions later for
> OCR, but I want to get a simple one working first.
> 
> Here is my code:  (Very basic)
> 
> from ctypes import *
> import Image
> 
> myOcr = windll.LoadLibrary('ocrdll.dll') # my DLL
> 
> mySize = myOcr.GetImgBitmapSize ## load the function
> 
> im = Image.open('C:\\chris.tif') ## load the Image
> print id(im)  ## for testing print address of im
> 
> ##myFile = c_char_p(id(im))  # I have tried several variations of this
> 
> x = mySize(myFile)  ##  Actual call to the DLL Function
>                     ##  documentation only one parameter passed
> pointer to Image
>                     ##  Must be DIB Image(Device Independent Bitmap)
>                     ##  (could this be the problem?)
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> Chris J.

Can you supply any docs on the ocrdll.dll API (e.g example C
code or function/parameter documentation)?  I've interfaced
with ExperVision's OCR RTK Toolkit via calls to their .DLL
but it looks like you are using something different.

-Larry


From jarausch at skynet.be  Wed Oct 27 09:51:15 2004
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:51:15 +0200
Subject: 2.4beta1 distutil problem?
Message-ID: <417fa7d3$0$19570$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

Hi,

I'd like to install SCons (http://www.scons.org) on my Linux box.
There, the cvs version of Python is running.
Doing as recommended in the README file

export SCONS_LIB_DIR=`pwd`/src/engine
python src/script/scons.py build/scons

I get after some time
/usr/local/bin/python build/scons/setup.py bdist_wininst
running bdist_wininst
running build
running build_py
running build_scripts
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/Obj/OBJ/Python/SCons/scons/build/scons/setup.py", line 221, in ?
     apply(distutils.core.setup, (), arguments)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/distutils/core.py", line 149, in setup
     dist.run_commands()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/distutils/dist.py", line 946, in 
run_commands
     self.run_command(cmd)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/distutils/dist.py", line 966, in 
run_command
     cmd_obj.run()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/distutils/command/bdist_wininst.py", 
line 127, in run
     assert self.skip_build, "Should have already checked this"
AssertionError: Should have already checked this
scons: *** [build/scons/dist/scons-0.96.win32.exe] Error 1
 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^^^^^^^^^
Remember this is a build on a Linux machine.


This install procedure is claimed to work with Python 2.3.x .

Thanks for any hints,
Helmut.


-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 11:54:36 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:54:36 +0200
Subject: Some notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glm9eg.1yldhpvtdfww2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416fee05$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<1glr5vz.s10y5ympbao9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com> <4171cb7a@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <1gltb08.7grz9e1yca44yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Scott David Daniels <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
> >... The iterator over arguments, which I propose, could not be implemented
> > in Python today (Python today has no way to collect yet-unevaluated
> > arguments).
> Ah -- that was what I didn't get: I hadn't understood f(@_args) to be
> more than f(*list(_args)) and so the rest made no sense at all to me.
> Sort of an evalquote kind of thing (I think, it has been decades), I

Yep, sort of, with "skippable iterators" as the natural way to access
(possibly only some of) the resulting values.

> guess.  Thanks for taking the time to explain.

You're welcome, and I apologize if my original sketch had been way too,
well, sketchy;-).


Alex


From ville at spammers.com  Thu Oct 14 08:02:11 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 15:02:11 +0300
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<278de0e.0410131104.2109521e@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4899.1097694762.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<5339b60d.0410140128.28897913@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7acup5wzg.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> writes:

[on prothon]

    Paul> Indeed that could have been the reason for the
    Paul> skepticism/hostility.  For a good while, comp.lang.python
    Paul> was stuffed full of commentary and discussion about a
    Paul> language which now seems to be "off the twig", although I
    Paul> imagine that Prothon could well be an interesting starting
    Paul> point for experimentation with free threading and other
    Paul> Python 3000 proposals/wishes/desires.

Well, Prothon is dead now, the new project has a different name and
generally seems to be a sandbox for overly "creative" language
design. Boo seems to be more relevant from the Python point of view.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 22 08:26:18 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 15:26:18 +0300
Subject: Example of how to use logging for both screen and file
Message-ID: <du7acufgcr9.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

Just posting this for the sake of google:

Like everyone else, I figured it's time to start using the 'logging'
module.  

I typically want to dump "info" level (and up) log information to
screen, and "debug" level (and up) to a log file for in-depth
analysis. This is for scripts, so date/time/severity information is
not wanted. I assumed such a simple use case would have an example in
the docs (py 2.4), but no luck.

Here's what worked for me:

import logging

def setupLogging():
    global log
    log = logging.getLogger("myapp")
    log.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
    sth = logging.StreamHandler()
    sth.setLevel(logging.INFO)
    log.addHandler(sth)
    fhnd = logging.FileHandler('/tmp/myapp.log')
    fhnd.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
    log.addHandler(fhnd)

setupLogging()

log.info("foo")  # appears on screen and file
log.debug("bar") # appears in the file only


The example might not be ideal, but something like this should really
be in the module documentation. The example config file mostly serves
to intimidate would-be users ("I need to do *that*?!?), and many of
them probably wouldn't want to introduce a third-party wrapper module
either (I think that should be the point of the standard logging
module after all).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct  4 16:34:51 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:34:51 -0700
Subject: wxPython - problem dynamically adding widgets?
In-Reply-To: <37f621d3.0410041214.305eb3e9@posting.google.com>
References: <37f621d3.0410041214.305eb3e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041004133207.ECB2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Although Grids support some additional controls such as Choice and
> CheckBox, they don't even support images and using a Grid seems
> awfully heavyweight.

You should take a look at the wxPython demo.  It includes an example
where a Grid contains images; something like a thousand of them if I
remember correctly.

And I have not found grids to be that terribly heavy.

 - Josiah



From matt at pollenation.net  Mon Oct 18 10:38:16 2004
From: matt at pollenation.net (Matt Goodall)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:38:16 +0100
Subject: relational email repository
In-Reply-To: <rrQcd.2905$lp6.2339@okepread01>
References: <rrQcd.2905$lp6.2339@okepread01>
Message-ID: <1098110296.8368.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 10:24 -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
> A while ago someone posted a reference to a relational architecture for 
> storing rfc2822-compliant emails, but I can't for the life of me find it 
> through Google. Anyone? Thanks a lot.

Catchmail, <http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mysite/catchmail.htm>,
perhaps? Here's a link to the announcement,
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-October/243870.html>.

Cheers, Matt

-- 
Matt Goodall, Pollenation Internet Ltd
w: http://www.pollenation.net
e: matt at pollenation.net
t: +44 (0)113 2252500



From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct 21 02:20:01 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 06:20:01 GMT
Subject: WxHTML
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5247.1098336070.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <20041021003804.16183.00000900@mb-m01.aol.com>
	<mailman.5247.1098336070.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lyIdd.3054$KJ6.105@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Robby Russell wrote:
> Have you considered wxMozilla?
> 
> www.wxmozilla.org

What's the project status?  Last update on that page is
from 2003-10-11, or over a year ago.  I see a mailing from
Kevin Ollivier dated 2004-09-13 commenting on some bugs
under Mac OS X (my platform of choice) saying

 > I've already spent a considerable amount of time on this,
 > and I'm not sure how much I will continue working on this
 > in the near future.

Ahh, and there's one dated 2004-10-15 from Kevin suggesting
wxWebKitCtrl as an alternative for that platform.  But
there are few search hits for that term.  Anyone have a
better point for info about it?

What's that?  Download the source?  Guess I will ...

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Oct  5 02:59:56 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 08:59:56 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:

> "Messages" in ObjC are really just a metaphor, one that is shared by
> Smalltalk, but not many other object-oriented languages.

_Most_ object-oriented languages support object orientation via the
message passing paradigm. Python included.

It's just that in Smalltalk the word "message" plays a more central
role in the (natural) language used to talk about the (programming)
language. In other (programming) languages, terms such as "method" and
"member function" tend to be used to describe the same concept.



From danperl at rogers.com  Sat Oct  2 23:20:38 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 23:20:38 -0400
Subject: idiom for debug code? [1/1]
References: <y6SdnUz8sr673sHcRVn-gA@rogers.com>
	<wfmdnXvIef4v1cHcRVn-vQ@comcast.com>
	<6tadnfHqDdcg9cHcRVn-hQ@rogers.com>
	<0DoHajVjBwXBFwhr@hiredatum.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <yeadnZwsvvKa7cLcRVn-pA@rogers.com>

Thanks, Ian.  It's late Saturday for me now so I will look more at the code 
later, but so far what I get from what you sent is only dprint and that is a 
logging utility.  That's not what I was looking for.  OTOH, I see that your 
posting was probably only a first installment, so I am looking forward to 
more details, including more parts from your utility module.

The solution that you are using for the dprint utility involves a global 
variable.  How do you change its value?  Is that still by making a change in 
the code, even if the change is only one place?  I would like a solution 
that does not involve any change in the code and is determined strictly at 
run-time.  I was thinking of something like an environment variable or a 
configuration attribute.  Of course, your solution can be adapted to set the 
global variable based on an environment variable or based on configuration.

As for rewriting your code, did you take a look at the newsgroup thread 
about the new logging utility?

Dan

"Ian Parker" <parker at hiredatum.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:0DoHajVjBwXBFwhr at hiredatum.demon.co.uk...
> In message <6tadnfHqDdcg9cHcRVn-hQ at rogers.com>, Dan Perl
> <danperl at rogers.com> writes
>>I was not thinking of actually removing code.  The analogy to C++
>>preprocessing was just an example.  I am looking at something that can be
>>determined at run-time, not compile-time.
>>
>>And you're right, I'm not really concerned about the overhead of an "if"
>>because I will not use this extensively anyway.  This problem occurred to 
>>me
>>when I decided to add an import for win32traceutil.  I'm looking for a way
>>to have that permanently in the code and enabling/disabling it only at
>>run-time.
>>
>>I have thought of alternatives like an environment variable or a
>>configuration parameter, but I was looking for other ideas.  I thought 
>>this
>>should be a common issue and that there could be an idiom for it.
>>
>>Dan
>>
>>PS: in the case of importing win32traceutil, I guess that checking the
>>environment would be necessary anyway, or the import should be in a try
>>statement, ignoring the exceptions.
>>
>>"Larry Bates" <lbates at syscononline.com> wrote in message
>>news:wfmdnXvIef4v1cHcRVn-vQ at comcast.com...
>>> Dan Perl wrote:
>>>> Is there a mechanism or an idiom for adding code for debugging so that 
>>>> it
>>>> can easily be removed in the production code?  I am thinking of 
>>>> something
>>>> similar to the C/C++ preprocessor statements with which you can compile
>>>> an application with the debug code or without it (the default).
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>> Personally I think you should consider NOT removing the debugging code.
>>> It never ceases to amaze me how many times I must have a client run
>>> the application with debug set so that the program logs details about
>>> the running process and intermediate results.  The output logfile can
>>> then be easily emailed, faxed, etc. to me so that I can determine what
>>> is REALLY the problem.  The overhead of these if _debug: "type"
>>> statements seems incredibly low compared to the ability to get this
>>> information when needed.  Just some thoughts based on my experience
>>> of the last 30+ years.
>>>
>>> Larry Bates
>>> Syscon, Inc.
>>
>>
>
> I' use the following technique.  I originally wrote it four years or so
> ago, so I'm sure it could be much improved.  In fact looking at it now,
> I ma deeply embarrassed to post it, and know it could be dramatically
> improved both by using more modern features of Python,  by better coding
> and by some comprehension of  design.
>
> I have a utility.py module which contains my common functions and I
> import this in every module, plus a wrapper for the debug function:
>
> import utility
>
> debug = 0
>
> def dprint( *args):
>    """
>        print function toggled on or off by module debug variable
>    """
>    global debug
>    if debug:
>        apply(utility._dprint,args)
>
>
> This allows me to scatter dprint functions throughout the module instead
> of print statements, and enable or suppress them by setting the global
> 'debug', e.g.
>
>    def func(x):
>        global total
>        total += x
>        dprint("total is currently",total)
>
> to get an output of something like:
>    ! module.py:83 in func: total is currently 10
>
>
> The relevant code from my utility.py is attached.
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


>
> I would welcome rewrites of this code, of course.
>
> Regards
>
> Ian
> -- 
> Ian Parker
> 




From gm.voelkl at t-online.de  Tue Oct 26 13:20:48 2004
From: gm.voelkl at t-online.de (G. Völkl)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:20:48 +0200
Subject: Looking for Beginner Python Course in Germany
Message-ID: <clm0vc$eup$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Hello,

I am looking for a good Python Beginner Course in Germany in 2005.

Any recommendation ?

Thanks

Gerhard




From nelson at crynwr.com  Tue Oct  5 12:11:20 2004
From: nelson at crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:11:20 -0400
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
In-Reply-To: <20041004215641.266008304.whereU@now.com>
References: <20041004215641.266008304.whereU@now.com>
Message-ID: <16738.51112.750227.109103@desk.crynwr.com>

Eric Pederson writes:
 > So possible examples might be:

Choose poor examples, and then criticize them as poor choices?

 > 'xx'somebody's mother'xx'

How about   '.'somebody's mother'.'
Or          '-'somebody's mother'-'

 > <quote>somebody's body<quote>
 > 
 > or would we then worry that we might want to quote some angle
 > bracketed mark-up?

I sure would.

 > [I like '''triple quotes''' though if they ever catch on in the mainstream, they'll be useless - because they will wind up in strings]

Exactly.  It really would be better to have one(1) string literal
which can quote anything without reverting to backslashing.  Why one?
Simpler parsing, simpler learning of the language, fewer choices to
make while programming.

-- 
--My blog is at angry-economist.russnelson.com  | Violence never solves
Crynwr sells support for free software  | PGPok | problems, it just changes
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 212-202-2318 voice | them into more subtle
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | FWD# 404529 via VOIP  | problems.


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Thu Oct 28 16:45:13 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:45:13 +0200
Subject: rpmdrake slowness (was: Re: Newbie trying to install pygsear)
In-Reply-To: <41815488$0$33038$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.5627.1098988652.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41813fa5$0$33073$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5633.1098994430.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41815488$0$33038$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <41815a58$0$36861$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> If only it didn't take rpmdrake a half-hour to start up and
> fifteen minutes to re-scan for packages after every operation.
> [Okay, so I exaggerate a little, but that program feels awfully
> slow.]

Yes, that's one thing that I really hope they have fixed
in Mandrake 10.1 (I'm waiting for the official 10.1, I don't
bother with the community releases).

The 9.x version was much quicker in my recollection....

_i.


From me at privacy.net  Fri Oct 15 21:33:59 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 21:33:59 -0400
Subject: quoting %
References: <mailman.4848.1097675497.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m2sm8fiw5j.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>
	<mailman.5024.1097871226.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2lle7igzc.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:15:15 +0200,
Gandalf <gandalf at geochemsource.com> wrote:

>> I don't know what kind of database and/or API you're using, but
>> DB-API compliant (Python PEP 249) libraries will put the right
>> quotation marks (if any) around your strings *and* quote any internal
>> troublesome characters correctly.

> Can you please send an example? I'm using the DB-API extensively, but
> I have my own conversion functions for date/time types. It would be
> great to have a general method.

Here's a snippent from one of my programs:

    def delete( self, tablename, column_names, row ):
        cursor = self.connection.cursor( )
        sql = ("DELETE FROM %s WHERE " % tablename
               + column_names[ 0 ] + " = %s")
        params = tuple( row[ :1 ] )
        cursor.execute( sql, params ) # <-- look here
        self.connection.commit( )

By the time it gets to the "look here" line, sql looks like this:

    DELETE FROM tablename WHERE columnname = %s

(but tablename and columnname are actual table and column names).  Note
that cursor.execute quotes the rest of the WHERE clause *correctly*,
even if params contains quote or percent or whatever characters.

FWIW, I would probably be a bit more bold nowadays, and construct sql
and params more like this:

    sql = "DELETE FROM %(table)s WHERE %(column)s = %(target)s"
    params = { 'table' : tablename,
               'column' : column_names[ 0 ],
               'target' : row[ :1 ] }

assuming that the database module in question supports the pyformat
paramstyle, or like this:

    sql = "DELETE FROM %s WHERE %s = %s"
    params = (tablename, column_names[ 0 ], row[ :1 ])

if it didn't.

See also PEP 249 <http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0249.html>, especially
the bit about paramstyle and cursor.execute (and footnotes 2 and 5).

HTH,
Dan

-- 
Dan Sommers
<http://www.tombstonezero.net/dan/>
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.


From jerf at jerf.org  Fri Oct 29 18:02:04 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:02:04 GMT
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
	<mailman.5652.1099050368.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ueq45F2a9e6eU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<6c6a52-r5t.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<clu3cd$oe$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.30.00.47.53.108306@jerf.org>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:49:50 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> While I have to admit that it is a nice trick, its something I expect beeing
> part of a IPC-standard - otherwise, it renders the standard short of beeing
> useless.

XML-RPC was designed from the get go to be very, very simple, as in
"person skilled in a language ought to be able to get one going in a
matter of hours". It breaks out of that domain, but it is nice to have a
cross-platform RPC mechanism that meets that description. If I want to get
a weather report for zip-code XXXXX, I shouldn't need CORBA.

It isn't useless, but it definitely has established its niche at the lower
end of the scale.

I would point out the XML-RPC is built on HTTP and XML and theoretically
inherits the benefits and disadvantages of both. Specifically, if your
server and client supported it, you should be able to use Cookie: headers
just as you would in HTTP. That would sort of be a grey area in the
standard.

(It's probably about time for XML-RPC 1.1 that seperates the data encoding
from the transport; right now according to the standard they are
intertwined and "XML-RPC over SMTP" or "over Jabber" are meaningless
phrases; those things are just "XML-RPC-like". Then maybe we could allow
various transports to be used more fully, according to the defined
transport; Jabber is another example where the transport has useful
capabilities but they are just thrown away for RPC purposes.)


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Sat Oct  9 23:02:51 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 20:02:51 -0700
Subject: Init a table of functions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4651.1097377198.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>	<cka7q6$4u7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>	<4168A727.6050606@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4651.1097377198.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cka8os$53h$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

[snip]

> Now that I think of it some more, why did you add that object arg?  
> That's not necessary.

Habit.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Sun Oct 10 15:57:55 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:57:55 -0400
Subject: Problem executing IDLE
In-Reply-To: <_Ofad.102571$He1.29537@attbi_s01>
References: <_Ofad.102571$He1.29537@attbi_s01>
Message-ID: <41699443.9070602@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Len Sumnler said unto the world upon 2004-10-10 15:10:
> Hi all
> 
> I am trying to learn python.  When I try to run IDLE on my Windows XP it
> does not appear to run.  Does anyone know why this is happening.
> 
> Thanks
> Len Sumnler
> 
> 

Describe what you are doing to try to run IDLE and you've a better 
chance of getting help. (Python version wouldn't hurt, either.)

Best,

Brian vdB


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 18:24:41 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 19:24:41 -0300
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041003152471cf26fc@mail.gmail.com>

On 2 Oct 2004 20:10:04 -0700, zipher <zondervanz at gmail.com> wrote:
> After searching through comp.lang.python and the web regarding
> metaclasses, I could not find an example for customing classes using
> metaclass parameters.
> 
> I want to be able to create a class at runtime by calling some
> function or 'meta-constructor' which returns a customized class and
> sets a class attribute according a given parameter.

I'm not a metaclass expert, but I think I can share a few useful tips
with you. I've been studying metaclasses lately, and I've fallen on
some traps that seem to be common. I apologize if my tone sound
pretentious at times -- my intention is probably better than my words.

Let's start from the very beginning. In opposition to what happens at
other widely known languages -- C, for example -- class definitions in
Python are actually a two-step process. First the class code is
*executed*; when it finishes executing, the class is created by
calling its *metaclass*.

Step 1 - Executing class declaration code
------------------------------------------------
For simple classes -- the ones with just a few def's -- the execution
step seems to be the same as with class declarations in other
languages. That happens because def's are not executed at this time -
def's are only compiled. But any code inside a class definition that
is *not* shielded inside a method is executed, and can have side
effects on the way the class is created. One can do funny things with
it. Alex Martelli has show some examples on a previous thread -- for
example a metaclass doesn't need to be a class, any callable will do,
and it's possible to do weird things with it. The following code is
such a sample:

>>> class MyClass:
... 	for i in range(10):
... 		def newmethod(self,i=i):
... 			print "I'm method #%d" % i
... 		newname = "method%d" % i
... 		locals()[newname] = newmethod
... 
>>> mc = MyClass()
>>> mc.method0()
I'm method #0
>>> mc.method1()
I'm method #1

Although it doesn't involve metaclasses at all, it shows how dynamic
the class creation process is, and how much control one can have with
it. There are two worthy comments to make:

1) the locals() dict is the key at this step of class creation. The
local dict is one of the parameters passed to the metaclass. If you
fill the locals() with values -- either manually, as in the example
above, or by assigning values to local vars -- all the values will be
part of the class definition.

2) the signature of "def newmethod(self,i=i)" shows another
interesting side effect. The value if <i> (defined in the for loop) is
passed as a keyword paramenter, and is evaluated whenever the 'def'
statement is found. Because it changes, the def is re-run at every
loop. In the lack of this hack, the def would run only at the first
time, and all methods would in fact be the same.

Step 2 - Creating the new class
-----------------------------------------
The second step is the crucial one. A class is created from three
parameters: it's name, a list of base classes, and it's dict. The
following sample shows how to create a new class, pretty much as
you've asked:

>>> T = type('NewClass', ( ), {'x':1})
>>> T.x
1

By calling type() with carefully constructed parameters, it's possible
to create the class the way you want it -- including all the methods
and attributes you can possibly need. You can also supply the base
class, and it can be a dict, as you wish:

>>> T = type('newdict', (types.DictType,), {'x':1, 'y':2})
>>> t = T()
>>> t.x
1
>>> t['teste'] = 4
>>> t
{'teste': 4}
>>> t.items()
[('teste', 4)]
>>> 


Things that you can't do
---------------------------
Unfortunately, and even with all the flexibility that the process
have, there are a few things that are still difficult (or impossible)
to do. For example, there is no (easy) way to intercept the creation
of new names during the 'step 1', which means that some hacks need to
be done only after this step is completed. One such example is the
recently requested method overload' recipe.

It's also possible to rename a class that is being defined (by
changing its name inside the metaclass); however, it will still be
bound to the name stated in the source code. For  example:

class NewClass:
    def __metaclass__(name, bases, dct):
        return type('__%s__' % name, bases, dct)

>>> NewClass
<class '__main__.__NewClass__'>



-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct 27 00:39:11 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:39:11 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <20041027030115.82565.qmail@web20427.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041025223914.0B2C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<20041027030115.82565.qmail@web20427.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041026212133.0B6E.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


kartik vaddadi <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> > Overflow errors are not automated tests.
> 
> why not? they detect bugs.

Automated testing is the process of creating a set of test inputs with
outputs to validate that your software is working correctly or not.

Overflow errors can occur during regular program execution, and as such,
are not an automated test.

 - Josiah



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 11:43:47 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:43:47 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <4162B500.6080209@sympatico.ca>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162B500.6080209@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <4162C133.1030302@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>>
> I ran out of steam!
>
> I started this without seeing that you posed 45 questions.
>
> At the end, I'm inclined to support the Grant Edwards response.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Colin W.

The original idea was that people whom were experts in X would respond 
to question only pertaining to X but I see that that was a foolish idea 
of mine.  Anyhow, thanks Colin and it sounds like Python has most of 
what I want (though not all).


From ross.lazarus.does.not.read.or.eat.spam at channing.harvard.edu  Wed Oct  6 22:41:45 2004
From: ross.lazarus.does.not.read.or.eat.spam at channing.harvard.edu (ross lazarus)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 02:41:45 GMT
Subject: MAPI Server...
In-Reply-To: <ab19b1e4.0410061718.6a7df4b5@posting.google.com>
References: <ab19b1e4.0410061718.6a7df4b5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <J129d.2489$Ua.454@trndny01>

Google is often a wonderful friend of first recourse in these 
situations. The first result for
python mapi
is
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/149461
which just might give you a start.

Mike Monaghan wrote:

> I have inherited a glueware application that I'd like to convert to
> Python.  To avoid a long discussion here's how the application
> works...
> 
> A voice mail system uses MAPI to pass a message to Outlook Express. 
> Since Outlook Express has protection to prevent worms another program
> hits the "It's okay to allow this" button.  Outlook then passes the
> message to a SMTP server that puts the raw message in a file where
> another program can pickup and parse the message into something
> usable.
> 
> There's a lot of parts to this and to put it mildly I'm not really
> happy with the way this is all put together.  I can't change the MAPI
> call from the voicemail system.  The rest is open to debate.
> 
> The voicemail system treats Outlook as a MAPI server.  Is there any
> support in Python to emulate this role?  I'd rather not reinvent the
> wheel.  By emulating the Outlook Express' MAPI server I could take
> Outlook, The button presser, the SMTP server, and a major part of the
> last program out of the chain and provide a simple Python application
> to do the job.  The logic in this isn't complex so python seems like a
> natural if I can emulate the MAPI Server in Python.  Any references to
> libs or source code would be great.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 16:34:37 2004
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (G. S. Hayes)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 13:34:37 -0700
Subject: Emacs is going to die! =( [was Re: Emacs + python (Was Re:
	python is going to die! =()
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<278de0e.0409201131.57baf7f9@posting.google.com>
	<414f61bf$0$29449$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<rwJ3d.1000$g42.675@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<87hdprv3qd.fsf_-_@ion.xlipstream.com>
	<du7fz5a8tte.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<cdd4e677.0410010149.50b50324@posting.google.com>
	<du7oejm39yl.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <96c2e938.0410051234.7c8d029e@posting.google.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message news:<du7oejm39yl.fsf at lehtori.cc.tut.fi>...
>     David> I do see the possibility, but the Eclipse community is
>     David> going to have to more eagerly embrace the non-Java world.
> 
> Indeed. I think we just need to give it some time. As it stands, the
> potential for the passing of time to actually amounting to something
> seems much better for Eclipse than it appears to be for Emacs.

Unless Eclipse will run on terminal it's not really an option for a
lot of developers.  I know I've done a substantial amount of my dev
work on remote servers via ssh at each of my last 3 jobs (mostly at
Web/Web services companies, one data mining/visualization firm).  The
beautiful thing about Vim (the same would apply to Emacs) is that
it'll run with all kinds of fancy bells and whistles (language/context
sensitive menus and syntax highlighting/tooltips/etc) when I'm running
on the local desktop, but I don't lose most of the core functionality
when I do some work on terminal.  Help text may pop up in the status
bar instead of tooltips, but it essentially "feels" like the same
environment, with the same integration with my build and test systems,
etc.


From chrispatton at gmail.com  Sat Oct  9 17:45:21 2004
From: chrispatton at gmail.com (Chris Patton)
Date: 9 Oct 2004 14:45:21 -0700
Subject: help me
Message-ID: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>

Hey everybody. I am writing a program that requires the user to make
the name for variables inside the program. For example:

>>> exec raw_input()+' = 34'

However, I don't want to have to use the "exec" statement. Thanks for
any help!

P.S. For those who have ansewered my post for a similar request, I
thought this would explain myself better.

---


From nospam at dontreply.com  Tue Oct 19 04:30:02 2004
From: nospam at dontreply.com (Peter)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 04:30:02 -0400
Subject: Packaging Python Apps
Message-ID: <w7CdnbnX8KsXTencRVn-tw@comcast.com>

Are there commands that can be used to install python apps into a dummy tree
for later packaging? I would like to accomplish either of the following:

when I run python setup.py install

can I

1) deposit all files into a specified directory like when I do
make install DESTDIR=/foo

2) have a do-nothing install like
make -n install

Thx


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 05:59:32 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:59:32 +0200
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
	<Tmj9d.5402$UP1.1499@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4165C9FD.5060000@bellsouth.net>
	<mailman.4563.1097227579.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glc6g0.1ner1219acqffN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Egbert Bouwman <egbert.list at hccnet.nl> wrote:

> A file is too large to fit into memory.
> The first line must receive a special treatment, because 
> it contains  information about how to handle the rest of the file.
> 
> Of course it is not difficult to test if you are reading the first line
> or another one, but it hurts my feelings to do a test which by definition
> succeeds at the first record, and never afterwards.

option 1, the one I would use:

thefile = open('somehugefile.txt')
first_line = thefile.next()
deal_with_first(first_line)
for line in thefile:
    deal_with_other(line)

this requires Python 2.3 or better, so that thefile IS-AN iterator; in
2.2, get an iterator with foo=iter(thefile) and use .next and for on
that (better still, upgrade!).

option 2, not unreasonable (not repeating the open & calls...):

first_line = thefile.readline()
for line in thefile: ...

option 3, a bit cutesy:

for first_line in thefile: break
for line in thefile: ...

(again, in 2.2 you'll need some foo=iter(thefile)).


I'm sure there are others, but 3 is at least 2 too many already,
so...;-)


Alex


From amk at amk.ca  Sat Oct 30 10:17:31 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:17:31 -0500
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrnco6oak.nn.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
	<2uh8ckF2954t4U1@uni-berlin.de> <du71xfgtm0p.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <eLadnS8y84jmPx7cRVn-1Q@speakeasy.net>

On 30 Oct 2004 15:42:46 +0300, 
	Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote:
> Well, if they are any good we'll just port them to Python. "import
> re2" and we are all set. Everyone wins.

I don't think so.  Perl5 regexes are pretty independent of the rest of the
language, but Perl6's are interweaved with the rest of Perl's syntax, so I
don't think we'll ever see a Perl6-equivalent of PCRE.  

--amk


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 11 11:35:19 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:35:19 +0200
Subject: how do i keep python from printing a newline when it exits the
	program?
References: <mailman.4706.1097507954.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cke975$pv5$01$1@news.t-online.com>

xegfault wrote:

> print "No newline, please.",
> # End of script
> 
> When the program runs, python is still printing a newline when the
> program exits.  How does one keep python from doing so?

Use sys.stdout.write() instead of print or clear the softspace flag

sys.stdout.softspace = False

after the print statement. Google 'site:mail.python.org exit newline' for
some background.

Peter



From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Thu Oct  7 09:25:51 2004
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:25:51 +0200
Subject: 2 Newbie questions.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4475.1097130092.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <Tl49d.425544$8_6.322047@attbi_s04>
	<mailman.4475.1097130092.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2skuevF1lun22U1@uni-berlin.de>

Steven Bethard schrieb:
> Len Sumnler <pcslen <at> comcast.net> writes:
> 
>>I have searched the net and performed chmod +x mypython.py and added as the 
>>first line of my program #!/usr/bin/env python.  When I try to run the 
>>program as follows $ mypython.py I get the error message of, "bash: 
>>mypython.py: command not found".  What am i doing wrong.
> 
> 
> Not really a Python question, but maybe I can help anyway.  A couple of things 
> to check:
> 
> 1) Does "/usr/bin/env python" work at the shell prompt?  If not you probably 
> don't have python on your path.
> 
> 2) If "/usr/bin/env python" does work for you from the shell, did you create 
> mypython.py on a Windows machine?  I've gotten these errors occasionally when 
> moving a script from a Windows box to a Unix box because the shell doesn't 
> like the \r's that Windows puts at the end of lines.  You could try using 
> dos2unix or a similar script to remove these.
> 
3) I think it must be ./mypython.py - the script isn't automatically 
searched for in the current directory. But it's quite right that this is 
a unix/linux and not a Python question.

Sibylle

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 16 17:11:27 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:11:27 -0700
Subject: pyc files located elsewhere?
In-Reply-To: <X7ednccGLPpVxuzcRVn-3A@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.5052.1097941983.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<X7ednccGLPpVxuzcRVn-3A@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <20041016140850.09E4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > I don't know if it is possible to automatically write to a different
> > path, but I /think/ one can /turn off/ writing .pyc files, but it would
> > necessarily make running the script slower (you don't get cached .pyc
> > files, so every import requires a py->pyc compilation).
> 
> Just to clarify (and I don't know turning that feature off is really
> possible, so maybe it's a useless point), but not *every* import will
> require the compilation.  The first import of any given module will
> require the compilation, each time you run the application.  If a
> module is imported fifty times, all but the first just retrieve
> the module from sys.modules, same as normal.

Right, but if you have 50 modules that are imported (50 unique module
files), then you still have to compile those 50 every time.  The speed
hit really depends on the size of the application, and how often
restarts occur.


> (Is what you describe really possible?  I've never heard of it.)

I know that importing from a non-writable location disables writing of
pyc files (zip imports, etc.), and I am fairly certain it can be done
with an import hook, though never having need for it, I've never tried.

 - Josiah



From problem_child876 at yahoo.ca  Sat Oct  9 00:06:16 2004
From: problem_child876 at yahoo.ca (problem child)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 23:06:16 -0500
Subject: focusing a spawned application
Message-ID: <7rI9d.37800$jj2.1515518@news20.bellglobal.com>

Hi,

Been looking through python docs and searching the web, but haven't 
found out how to do this.

What I've got so far is a (windowed) client app that connects to a 
server (written in python). Both are running on the same machine. I want 
the client app to instruct the server to launch windowed apps, which 
I've been able to do so far (using os.system and os.spawnl). The problem 
is that because the server is launching the app, the client app remains 
topmost, with the spawned app sandwiched between the command prompt 
window and the client app window.

Is there a cross-platform way to instruct that spawned app to go to the
front of the stack?


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct 22 16:37:01 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 13:37:01 -0700
Subject: Example of how to use logging for both screen and file
References: <du7acufgcr9.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.5320.1098454525.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410221237.2609dcad@posting.google.com>

[Ville Vainio]
> > I typically want to dump "info" level (and up) log information to
> > screen, and "debug" level (and up) to a log file for in-depth
> > analysis. This is for scripts, so date/time/severity information is
> > not wanted. I assumed such a simple use case would have an example in
> > the docs (py 2.4), but no luck.

> > Here's what worked for me:
[example snipped]

> > The example might not be ideal, but something like this should really
> > be in the module documentation.

Agreed. It's on my todo list to add more examples ...

> > The example config file mostly serves
> > to intimidate would-be users ("I need to do *that*?!?), and many of
> > them probably wouldn't want to introduce a third-party wrapper module
> > either (I think that should be the point of the standard logging
> > module after all).

A configuration file is not really needed for simple configurations.
For the simplest usage,  the minimal example at

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/minimal-example.html

should suffice.

[Carlos]
> My idea now is to write a clean and simple wrapper for the logging
> module, using sensible defaults, and exposing simple methods.
> Something like (still pseudo-code):
> 
[code snipped]

Take a look at the link above. You cannot code logging much more
simply than that.

Documentation can always be improved. Patches are always welcome! I
will look at adding Ville's simple use case to the documentation as my
next documentation activity.

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From exarkun at divmod.com  Thu Oct 14 14:27:10 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:27:10 GMT
Subject: from dict to member vars...?
In-Reply-To: <416EC33F.1040809@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <20041014182710.24030.826414633.divmod.quotient.472@ohm>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:19:43 -0400, Jeremy Jones <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> 
> >Christopher J. Bottaro wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Hello,
> >>
> >>Lets say I have a class instance with the following member vars:  var1, x,
> >>size.  Now lets say I have dict with the following keys:  var1, x, size.
> >>Is there an easy way to *automatically* assign all the values in the dict
> >>to corresponding (member) vars of the same name as the dict keys?
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >d = dict(...)
> >
> >for key, val in d.items():
> >   setattr(o, key, val)
> >
> >  
> >
> Why not just use update()?

  Because it is semantically different from setattr().  If any of the attributes are properties or are handled specially by __setattr__, using inst.__dict__.update() will do something very different from calling setattr() repeatedly.

  Perhaps this is not of concern to the original poster, but it could be...  Also, even if it is not relevant today, next week the code might change, and someone could be left scratching their head over why the thing isn't working right.

  Jp


From haslo.ch at gmail.com  Sat Oct 16 11:14:31 2004
From: haslo.ch at gmail.com (Guido Gloor)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:14:31 +0200
Subject: undefined variable ?
In-Reply-To: <ckr3lp$9fq$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <ckqqlb$l0v$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<ckr3lp$9fq$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <a34050c7041016081440dd25ad@mail.gmail.com>

Are exceptions cheap in Python then? Coming from Java, I know there's
all sorts of overhead involved in creating and throwing an exception
there...

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:20:08 +0100, Michael Hoffman
<m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote:
> vertigo wrote:
> 
> > How can i check if variable named var1 exists ?
> 
> It's frequently a better approach to assume that it does and catch an
> exception if it doesn't.
> 
> try:
>      var1
> except NameError:
>      var1 = "neW"
> 
> But why do you want to do this?
> --
> Michael Hoffman
> 
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
http://www.haslo.ch/


From bob at passcal.nmt.edu  Thu Oct 21 18:41:21 2004
From: bob at passcal.nmt.edu (Bob Greschke)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:41:21 -0600
Subject: The type of a tkinter StringVars and IntVars?
Message-ID: <417838e7_4@127.0.0.1>

If I have

a = 6

I can do somehting like

if type(a) == int:
    Root.bell()

How would I do the same thing if

a = IntVar()
a.set(6)

and then do

if type(a) == IntVar:
    Root.bell()

Type() just returns that they are an 'instance'.  Is there a way?

Thanks!

Bob




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Oct  3 10:59:09 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:59:09 +0200
Subject: extra gibberish interspersed into urllib2 output
References: <pan.2004.10.01.23.11.49.238903@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <cjp3vv$a16$1@sea.gmane.org>

Dan Stromberg wrote:

> I'm finding that I'm getting the data I need, but unfortunately, there are
> small bits of gibberish interspersed in it, rendering the data difficult
> to use at best.  For example:
>
> p06,128.200.73.146,foobar,,,,,ES Servers,,li,,,,,
> p07,128.200.73.147,foobar,,,,,
> ffb
> ES Servers,,li,,,,,
> webmail2,128.200.224.22,foobar ,,,,,ES Servers,,li,blackhole:1,,,,
>
> IOW, that "ffb" does not belong in the middle of the 2nd line of what
> should be a 3 line snippet.  There are also some spurious carriage returns
> in there I believe, which may not show up in this message.

someone reported a similar problem on the XML-SIG a while ago.

in that case, like in this case, the extra characters are hexadecimal
numbers, which could mean that urllib, or some server out there,
isn't handling HTTP chunking properly:

    http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec3.html#sec3.6.1

</F> 





From spariam at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 10 13:08:21 2004
From: spariam at hotmail.com (spar)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 10:08:21 -0700
Subject: complex data structure - insert value
References: <e7fe8d9e.0410091444.211313b5@posting.google.com>
	<10mgre414hoq816@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmhu61.aqa.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <e7fe8d9e.0410100908.4b05b021@posting.google.com>

Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> wrote in message news:<slrncmhu61.aqa.nick at irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>...
 
> def somefunc(a,b): return 1
> bars=[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
> els=[7, 8]
> 
> data = []
> for bar_count in bars:
>   for el_count in els:
>     var = somefunc(bar_count, el_count)
>     while bar_count >= len(data):
>       data.append({})
>     l = data[bar_count].setdefault('CC', [])
>     while el_count >= len(l):
>       l.append(None)
>     l[el_count] = var
> 
> 
> >>> pprint(data)
> [{},
>  {'CC': [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, 1, 1]},
>  {'CC': [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, 1, 1]},
>  {'CC': [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, 1, 1]},
>  {'CC': [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, 1, 1]},
>  {'CC': [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, 1, 1]}]


Thanks, this is close...I'll have to play with it a bit. I've done
Perl for quite sometime, but am new to Python.

My example code didn't exactly show what I'm trying to do. The data
structure should actually look something like this (think of each
array element as a musical bar, each dict element ('HH', etc.) is an
instrument in that bar, and the list within the dict represent beats
for that instrument within the bar):

[{},
 {'CC': ['-', '-', '-', '-'], 'HH': ['x', 'x', 'x', 'x'], 'SD': ['-',
'-', 'o', '-']},
{'CC': ['x', '-', '-', '-'], 'HH': ['x', 'x', 'x', 'x'], 'SD': ['o',
'-', 'o', '-']},
{'CC': ['-', '-', '-', '-'], 'HH': ['x', 'x', 'x', 'x'], 'SD': ['-',
'-', 'o', '-']},
{'CC': ['x', '-', '-', '-'], 'HH': ['x', 'x', 'x', 'x'], 'SD': ['o',
'-', 'o', '-']}]
 
So this shows bars 1-4 (there is no bar 0, so it's empty), each bar
has three instruments ('CC', 'HH', and 'SD') and each instrument shows
what is to be played on beats (subdivisions) 1-4 (actually there will
be 16 subdivisions representing 16 16th notes).

I think I can take your code and mold it into what I need. Thanks...


From johng2001 at rediffmail.com  Sun Oct 24 22:10:09 2004
From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 19:10:09 -0700
Subject: Reading XML like Python!
Message-ID: <ba129ce7.0410241810.5c60a534@posting.google.com>

I have to read a lot of XML for my upcoming project.
XML is hard on my eyes.
Is there some sort of converter that converts XML to something more
eye friendly? maybe like Python? I have seen restructured text. There
is a paper at EuroPython 2004 that seems to do something similar.

"Pythonic Alternatives for declarative XML-based specifications of
robot behavior"

Anyone know of any tools along these lines?

Thanks.


From akaiser at vocote.de  Wed Oct 27 13:45:18 2004
From: akaiser at vocote.de (Andreas Kaiser)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:45:18 +0200
Subject: gantt charts with python
Message-ID: <clomrb$hpk$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hi,

is there a module to create gantt charts?

Thanks Andreas



From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct  1 14:21:28 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:21:28 GMT
Subject: getrecursiondepth
In-Reply-To: <76hql0pldetene06qqt10qk0kch82ju0if@4ax.com>
References: <cj3rd9$i9j$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<qebbl0l43c891b21udregn2pvj3phbfp90@4ax.com>
	<yMn5d.9974$gG4.9921@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<lf1dl0tqo6kui5gi2qmhgdqq0qdqfeqei0@4ax.com>
	<6fD5d.10550$gG4.6048@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<lhifl0969k5s8c87b9cg2pqrbe3in9oiv3@4ax.com>
	<Igg6d.12242$gG4.6109@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<bnfol0tf2q7e5d48p3pccs19c3ns6m6nme@4ax.com>
	<ifY6d.2976$Yr.655@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<76hql0pldetene06qqt10qk0kch82ju0if@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Ieh7d.435$M05.419@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Manlio Perillo wrote:
> This is only the function signature!
> The problem is that I can't do:
> 
> def my_function(a, b, *args, **kwargs, __max_depth = 4): ...
> 
> The only way is to do:
> def my_function(a, b, max_depth = 4, *args, **kwargs): ...
> 
> But in this way max_depth is 'exposed' to public.
> In the first example it is private.

My point, mentioned several times now, is that there's
nothing preventing you from making *two* functions.
The private one doesn't need the *args, **kwargs parameter
definition, and the public one doesn't need the depth
limit.

def _my_function(a, b, args, kwargs, max_depth = 4):
   # do your recursive work here

def my_function(a, b, *args, **kwargs):
   # the public entry to your system
   return _my_function(a, b, args, kwargs)

>>Let's suppose you're
>>doing Ackermann's function


> What's the purpose of such a function?

It's a standard recursive function used for
benchmarks.  It's often used to test how
well a language supports recursion because it
very quickly hits stack limits instead of
numeric limits.

I used it to make my example concrete by
showing how to have a public API which is
different than the API used by the actual
recursive function.  I also used it to show
how that sort of split makes it easier to
add parameter checking, if it's needed.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From agriff at tin.it  Mon Oct 18 16:06:27 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:06:27 GMT
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
Message-ID: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>


I did it.

I proposed python as the main language for our next CAD/CAM
software because I think that it has all the potential needed
for it. I'm not sure yet if the decision will get through, but
something I'll need in this case is some experience-based set
of rules about how to use python in this context.

For example... is defining readonly attributes in classes
worth the hassle ? Does duck-typing scale well in complex
software or should I go for a classic inheritance hierarchy ?

In other words... is there something like the classic "Large
Scale C++ Software Design" (Lakos) for python ? I'm not
looking for a bible, but lessons learned from someone that
already went down this path could be quite interesting.

Any suggestions/pointers are welcome.

Andrea


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 26 08:29:24 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:29:24 -0700
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via
	pseudo-functi	on o verloading.
In-Reply-To: <1gm9oj8.fyczraah3ol5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5417.1098704247.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm9oj8.fyczraah3ol5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1098793765.22370.257.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:17 +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:

> There!  The ULTIMATE Java-Python bridge.  

I'd always thought that the ultimate Java-Python bridge was a ladder
leading from the depths of hell.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From rynt at 9yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 17:33:17 2004
From: rynt at 9yahoo.com (R Baumann)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:33:17 -0700
Subject: Database Connectivity
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
	<1gl8by8.1ay6g301hrswe8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<XZfad.18001$b5.884997@news3.tin.it>
	<Bdhad.18298$b5.899971@news3.tin.it>
	<BvCdne92t9yqU_fcRVn-pw@megapath.net>
	<du7is9hoxue.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <xdqdnTQfsrqEYffcRVn-uA@megapath.net>


"Ville Vainio" <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message
news:du7is9hoxue.fsf at lehtori.cc.tut.fi...
> >>>>> "Baumann" == R Baumann <rynt at 9yahoo.com> writes:
>
>     Baumann> <GASP!> M$ sells stuff for money!  Why not?  I like to
>     Baumann> eat, you like to eat.  Don't like Microsoft?, sounds like
>     Baumann> a personal problem to me.  I don't
>
> I know I'm treading highly flammable waters here, but dislike of a
> company is not necessarily a purely personal problem (making the
> assumption that ethics means something for the purpose of this
> discussion). Making money is not a problem, it's *how* they make the
> money (or more correctly, prevent others from making money) that irks
> some people, including me.
>
>     Baumann> like everything they do either, but to pay my salary, the
>     Baumann> company I work for has to make money, not live on
>     Baumann> indignant or righteous attitudes.  I use whatever works
>     Baumann> best for the particular customer I have to work with.  If
>
> Yes, we all need to make some concessions to make a living. If you are
> paid to sell cigarettes and the alternative is going without a job,
> you sell cigarettes. Where people draw the line is determined by their
> individual (irrational) hangups like principles and ethics. Still, I
> generally try not to ridicule people that have higher moral standards
> than me.
>
> Of course an individal developer has very little power to decide these
> things in the first place, so no drawing a line is necessary.
>
> -- 
> Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb

I don't disagree with a thing you've written in response to my little
diatribe.  No, I probably should have just stopped while I was ahead, and
not included the paragraphs about MS, but it seems to me that not everyone
in this, or other newsgroups has the same outlook as you do, and it was
those people I was responding to.  Some of those people would gripe if MS
gave all their developer tools away for free.  Some just gripe because
they've heard others gripe.  Ya just can't please everyone. :-)

If I've struck a sour note, I apologize to all.  I absolutely grant and
agree with you that a lot of the business decisions and marketing ploys that
MS have practiced, and probably still practice, are not ethical, tend to
raise hackles, and don't give people a warm fuzzy feeling, and develop a
hatred for the company.

Am I a MS supporter?  Only to the extent that what I select to do a job must
be the best product for that job.  If it's MS, then it's MS.  If it's
Python, it's Python, and so on, and so on.

RB




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 05:07:08 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:07:08 +0200
Subject: what are the most popular building and packaging tools
	for	python ??
References: <5a309bd30410250301b26f445@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.5441.1098730188.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm8i53.1ghjcha10td2q4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417d7513.765059317@news.oz.net>
	<mailman.5491.1098775920.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm9eo8.fp3g5ucaxw9cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

kosh <kosh at aesaeion.com> wrote:

> On Monday 25 October 2004 5:44 pm, Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> > It's an interesting problem. Personally, I like open source, but I think
> > secret stuff should be possible, and I think it will be one of these
> 
> I have to admit I hope it is not ever really possible.

But it _IS_, just keep it on your own host.  Bengt's suggestion is
technically interesting, but with networking becoming more and more
pervasive "real secrecy", now "really possible" for applications that
cover maybe 80% of the software market (though with some limitations,
e.g. you're selling an app that can't fully run on a laptop on a flying
plane), will become possible for a wider and wider range and with fewer
and fewer limitations (e.g., wifi on planes is gonna be a standard
feature soon, and as it costs so little for airlines to provide it I
predict it will spread pretty fast).


> I certainly hope that does not happen and will continue to advise customers
> not to touch things that even try to do stuff like that. I have seen too many
> people burned badly when some proprietary app they had which required some
> special key server just stopped working. The company would go out of 
> business, decide that they did not want people to use the old version any
> more etc etc. Either way the ammount of lockin with a system like that is

This is certainly a very valid business consideration.  Without (at
least) source in escrow, or the like, betting your business on ANY
closed-source app may be very unwise.

Nevertheless, people and businesses use (e.g.) google daily, and depend
on it -- they don't have google's sources, and if they did they'd be
little use since the real value in this case is in the huge database
they're acessing.  Why should any other webservice be different?


> staggering. Even if the software did not cost any money the price is far too
> high for what you lose. However the software tends to be very expensive which
> makes it an even worse investment. The worst ones are those you can't really
> get the data back out of.

And _that_ is a customer protection law I'd love to see: requiring all
applications using proprietary formats for user data to provide an
export functionality (possibly as an auxiliary program) that is able to
write out the data as XML according to a DTD (or Schema, or RelaxNG,
whatever) to be published and filed in some accessible archive, and
import such an XML file back into the app's own format.

Some tolerance for closed source is one thing, hijacking users' data is
the bit that REALLY makes me see red!-)


> > Instead, I would hope it would enhance the possibilites for making
> > dependable agreements, which should be good for everyone, so long as access
> > to the the secure kitchen core hardware functionality is open, and
> > optional, and does not have back doors.
> 
> These agreements belong in the legal system not in the technology. That is why
> you have contracts and you have penalties for breaching a contract.

It is not reasonable to insist that, since laws exist to protect you,
you cannot take further precautions to guard against scofflaw, where
technically reasonable.  It's normal, for example, to place a lock on
some sort of property, even though the legal system may also forbid
others from removing said property of yours.

The cable/networking supplier who serves this apartment building (a few
tenants have bought various kinds of cable access from them -- TV, video
on demand, telephony, 10 mbps internet, etc -- it's a fiber-optic cable,
so I'm sure they have plenty of spare capacity;-) has (with my
permission as the building's owner) installed a service cabinet in the
cellar, with such interesting toys in it as Cisco routers, fiber optic
modems/multiplexers, etc.  As part of my agreement with them, I have
agreed that their cabinet can be locked (and it generally is, except
when some of their technicians forgets to re-lock it, which is why I
know what's in it).  If tomorrow they go out of business (unlikely but
no more so than for an average software supplier), their internet
connectivity is no doubt going to go down for quite a while until the
bankruptcy courts sort things out; anybody relying on that connection
for their business is going to be scrambling pretty bad to find
alternate suppliers, _and_ is going to hurt if they have left important
data on their IMAP server, etc, etc.

Yet one may evaluate this as a reasonable risk to take (some do).  ((Me,
I'm still using ADSL, waiting for more maturity in those 10 mpbs lines
before I trust them; in any case I always have an ISDN modem ready to
take over, so my connectivity _should_ degrade smoothly rather than ever
get cut off abrubtly... in theory...)).  It does not appear to me that
trusting a specific web service for your business presents any
substantial difference from trusting a connectivity supplier in general,
and the 'locking' aspects of the service (as long as no hijacking of
user data is involved) parallel the locking of the connectivity
supplie's service cabinet -- an extra precaution in addition to laws and
contracts, just in case.

And Bengt's idea (apart from requiring a highly specialized CPU in lieu
of pretty generic network access) doesn't appear to be any more
objectionable than web services, either.


Alex


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 10:08:39 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:08:39 -0400
Subject: bz2 & cpu usage
In-Reply-To: <cl36lk$83l$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
References: <cl365b$hh8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<cl36lk$83l$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <cl3757$iqm$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Brad Tilley schrieb:
> 
>> I'd like to keep at least 50% of the cpu free while doing bz2 file 
>> compression. Currently, bz2 compression takes between 80 & 100 percent 
>> of the cpu and the Windows GUI becomes almost useless. How can I lower 
>> the strain on the cpu and still do compression? I'm willing for the 
>> compression process to take longer.
> 
> 
> Three approaches:
> 
> 1) Use a thread for the I/O part (i.e. the de/compression) and another 
> one for the GUI.
> 
> 2) Collect the files first, then handle one after the other and return 
> to the GUI in between.
> 
> 3) Use a non-blocking scheme for the whole thing (may be the trickiest).
> 
> Stefan

The part I wrote about the "Windows GUI" is not clear. I meant the 
Windows XP Desktop. My script has no GUI. Sorry for the mix-up.

Brad


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 17 19:31:38 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:31:38 -0700
Subject: Yahoo SMTP
In-Reply-To: <cktd01+h6gp@eGroups.com>
References: <cktd01+h6gp@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20041017161751.0A08.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> Can someone give me an example of connecting to yahoo's smtp server 
> and sending mail?
> I'm doing this:
> msg = MIMEText(self.text_ctrl_1.GetValue())
>         msg['Subject'] = sub
>         msg['From'] = 'bossierbossman at yahoo.com'
>         msg['To'] = to
>         s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.mail.yahoo.com')
>         s.set_debuglevel(1)
>         s.connect()
>         s.login('bossierbossman', 'mypassword')
>         s.sendmail('bossierbossman at yahoo.com', [to], msg)
>         s.quit()
> which isn't working out for me.  Any thoughts?

Checking the source for smtplib.py, you must pass a port to
smtplib.SMTP() if you pass a host, as it defaults to 0.

Also, s.connect() is redundant if you created the smtplib.SMTP instance
with a host...

Basically, try this:

        s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.mail.yahoo.com', 25)
        s.set_debuglevel(1)
        s.login('bossierbossman', 'mypassword')
        s.sendmail('bossierbossman at yahoo.com', [to], msg)
        s.quit()
        s.close()

I believe that should work.

 - Josiah



From lbates at syscononline.com  Tue Oct  5 14:33:55 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 13:33:55 -0500
Subject: Database Connectivity
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nf2dnd1lo_KTdP_cRVn-uA@comcast.com>

Aaron Bingham wrote:
> Sandeep Avinash Gohad wrote:
> 
>>  
>> Hi
>>
>> I want to develope a simple Database connectivity program with python.
>> I want to use MS Access as a backend.
>> Please guide me....
>> If any e-books,links available particularly for database connectivity
>> then please let me know
>>
>> Regards
>> Sandeep
>>  
>>
> First, consider if you really want to use MS Access for this.  In my 
> experience, this is mostly asking for trouble as Access is poorly 
> documented and has many bugs and misfeatures you will waste your time 
> working around.  In addition, Access DBs are prone to corruption if 
> accessed by many users at once.  PostgreSQL is a much more powerful 
> alternative, and version 8.0, coming soon, will run natively on 
> Windows.  Of course, it is not as "user friendly" in the sense of having 
> pretty GUI tools, but since it sounds like you will be writing the GUI 
> in Python anyway, this may not matter.
> 
> If you are going to use Access, Python Programming on Win32 by Mark 
> Hammond and Andy Robinson is an essential reference.
> 
> Aaron
> 
I wrote and contributed a DAO interface class that I've used to
read/write data from/to Access databases located here:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/303349

Larry Bates


From "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com  Fri Oct 29 15:47:41 2004
From: "Charles Krug" at cdksystems.com (U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:47:41 GMT
Subject: PythonWin -- COM server won't change???
Message-ID: <x7xgd.55$a24.45@trndny07>

List:

I made a small change to a COM server under PythonWin.

I unregistered, then reregistered the server.

But the old version is still being invoked.

Did I miss a step:

Code follows.

Thanx


Charles


# cbLogger.py -- This logs messages to the specified file
#                   Originally simpleLogger.py.  It's supposed to be
#                   more object oriented than the original
#
# This is modeled after SimpleCOMServer.py, from "Python Win32
#    Programming" By Hammond and Robinson

from time import ctime
from time import time

class cbLogger:
    defaultLogFile = r'C:\loggerTests\testLog.log'

    def __init__(self, fileName = defaultLogFile, visible = 'no'):
        
        # I'm hoping we can open the file . . maybe
        try:
            self.logFile = file(fileName, 'a')
        except IOError:
            self.logFile = None
            
        # Any other exception is a fatal error,
        #   so we don't handle them.

        # Good News!  We've succeeded!
        else:
            self.__call__(self.__class__.__name__, \
                          'Log opened successfully')
        
    def __del__(self):
        self.__call__(self.__class__.__name__, 'Closing log file.')
        self.logFile.close()
        self.logFile = None
        
    def logShow(self):
        return 0

    def __call__(self, caller = 'Unknown Caller', \
                 message = 'Unknown Message'):
        self.logFile.write(ctime(time()) + ' <' + caller \
                                       + '> -- ' + message + '\n')
        return 0
    
class cbCOMLogger:
    # Wraps cbLogger in a COM object

    # Note this is a kludge.  It's the same as the wrapped class, but
    # not sure how to make it so without copying it into a unicode
    # string
    defaultLogFile = u'C:\\loggerTests\\testLog.log'
    _public_methods_ = ['open', 'close', 'logEntry', 'show']
    _reg_progid_ = 'cbLogger.logServer'

    # NEVER copy the following ID
    # Use "print pythoncom.CreateGuid()" to make a new one
    _reg_clsid_ = "{4BBB5C62-C460-43C5-82A4-52FD373A7D2A}"

    def __init__(self):
        self.fileOpen = False
        
    def open(self, fileName = defaultLogFile, visible = u'no'):
        if self.fileOpen == False:
            self.__Logger = cbLogger(str(fileName), str(visible))
            self.fileOpen = True
            return 0
        else:
            return -1

    def close(self):
        if self.fileOpen == True:
            del self.__Logger
            self.fileOpen = False

        return 0
    
    def logShow(self):
        return 0

    def logEntry(self, caller = u'Unknown Caller', \
                 message = u'Unknown Message'):
        if self.fileOpen == True:
            return self.__Logger(str(caller), str(message))
        else:
            return -1
                    
    def __del__(self):
        if self.fileOpen == True:
            self.close()
        
        return 0

# Add code so that when this script is run by
# Python.exe, it self-registers.
if __name__=='__main__':
    print "Registering COM server..."
    import win32com.server.register
    win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(cbCOMLogger)
    
    



From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Tue Oct 12 16:38:35 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 13:38:35 -0700
Subject: Some notes
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>

This is my first post here, I hope this is the right place to talk
about such things. I have few comments and notes on the Python
language. I've just started to learn it; this is negative because I'm
ignorant still, but it's also positive because I can still see details
that later probably I'll start to ignore.

Some of the functions of IPython seem good and simple, and I think
some of them can be integrated into the main Python line.

There are lots of different ways to make GUIs for Python programs, I
think that Gui4Cli (http://users.hol.gr/~dck/g4c/) is nice, and it can
be interesting to see it more integrated with Python. At the moment
there is only this interface, but it's not good:
http://users.hol.gr/~dck/g4c/dll/python.htm

Is Python3000 going to come eventually? It will break a lot of
compatibility, so it will be the right moment to change/fix other
things too. Here are some ideas (probably there are errors, but I hope
to learn from my mistakes):

- TABs can be accepted only inside comments. 

- The optional static typing seems a quite nice thing (for compilers
too, they can produce faster code. It can probably allow faster and
smaller arrays, like those of numarray).

- The functional IF seems interesting, like:
if(cond, code1, code2)
(Or maybe a different syntax, that allows elseif too.)

- Functions containing yield can be defined in a different way, like:
generator name(params)
    <code>
This idea comes from David Mertz:
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pycon.html?n-l-9271

- "mod" can substitute the % operator. This gives cleaner (but a bit
longer) code.

- The string Formatting like %(#)03d can be good for C programs, but
probably can be invented a much simpler and nicer syntax for a high
level language like Python (does string.Template from 2.4 solve
this?). (Python is "based" on C, but putting C syntax inside Python
sometimes seems a bad thing to me.)

Maybe the : at the end of some blocks can be removed or it can become
optional (but then the newline is probably necessary):
for i in <suite>: <code>

for i in <suite>
    <code>

if <cond>
    <code>
else
    <code>

def name(params)
    <code>

- Assigns and equal symbols seem wrong/misplaced. So:
==  can become =
=  can become <-
the <- is probably a more correct symbol, but it can produce problems:
b <- 6
b < -6
So maybe
==  can become =
=  can become :=
(This reminds me Pascal syntax.)


In time, Python seems to become more similar to the Mathematica (and
in IPython this is even explicit) ^_^

Bear hugs,
(Remove HUGS to mail me)


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Sun Oct 17 20:05:13 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 17 Oct 2004 17:05:13 -0700
Subject: Poll script in Python
References: <81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410171605.70b0c279@posting.google.com>

export at hope.cz (Lad) wrote in message news:<81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f at posting.google.com>...
> Is there a poll script available in Python?

I'm very interested in increasing the range of 'standard' CGI scripts
available in python. If you (or anyone else ?) wants help in writing a
simple one that could be used as a plugin to other webpages then
contact me and we'll work on it.

Regards,

Fuzzyman

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Oct 18 19:10:50 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:10:50 GMT
Subject: Facing the world with SimpleHTTPServer
In-Reply-To: <1098136619.832912.243090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <1098136619.832912.243090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <_3Ycd.386$KJ6.172@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Jed Parsons wrote:
> So, before I ditch apache for the fun, all-python setup, are there any
> security concerns about using SimpleHTTPServer?
> Thanks for any advice/info,

I know it's open to denial of service attacks.

For example, if you give it a lot of headers, esp.
with long lines, then you can cause the server to
exhaust all memory.  Eventually.  Apache and the HTTP
protocol both have ways to limit the max header line
and the max number of headers received before giving
an error message.

If you're single threaded there's no timeout so
you can effectively make the machine freeze.  If
you're multi-threaded you can instead make the process
run out of available descriptors.

Of course Apache has the last problem too, but it
does allow timeouts on the total request time so
feeding it a character a second and it will eventually
drop the request.  I think.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 14 20:30:36 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:30:36 -0700
Subject: Using pickle with setattr
In-Reply-To: <416F00E8.1060601@kzoo.edu>
References: <416CA456.8070409@kzoo.edu> <416F00E8.1060601@kzoo.edu>
Message-ID: <20041014172841.096F.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> I'm flabbergasted. Nobody on the python mailing list knows? I've stumped 
> the experts? ;)
> 
> Or maybe my question is stupid for somer reason? :P

Let us try it out:

>>> import pickle
>>> def fun(*args):
...     pass
...
>>> class foo:
...     pass
...
>>> pickle.dumps(foo(), 0)
'(i__main__\nfoo\np0\n(dp1\nb.'
>>> foo.fun = fun
>>> foo().fun()
>>> pickle.dumps(foo(), 0)
'(i__main__\nfoo\np0\n(dp1\nb.'
>>>

It doesn't look any different to me.

Try using it wherever you want.  If it fails at some point or another,
let us know.

 - Josiah



From dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 20:19:57 2004
From: dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com (Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 02:19:57 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5342.1098478990.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncnj8td.nq.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> The question then is, what are you trying to achieve with nevow's 
> templating?  (Or maybe, what do you think is achieved?)  I don't think 

Cleaner templates, and sometimes to avoid disk templates at all (when they
are not needed). Nevow template is also wonderful in giving the programmer
the ability to modify and transform the DOM at will (almost).

> anyone is achieving the separation of rendering logic from control or 
> business logic with templating -- rendering logic is too sophisticated 
> (in real applications) to always rely on a template.  In ZPT, some logic 
> remains in the template; the amount of logic is flexible, and frequently 
> changes back and forth as the application is developed.

Why can't you put rendering logic in a python file and the template only in
the template? just allow me to modify the DOM Tree as I need to while I'm
rendering, then the final output will be what you expected. This is what
Nevow does.

> Nevow has a very strong limit to how much logic can go in the page -- 
> and that limit is very low.  It's not a limit of zero, since it is more 
> sophisticated than something like XMLC or the DOM.  But it's not 
> terribly high.

Nevow _CAN_ embed code in the template. and you can do that in this way:

<n:invisible n:render="python x=2**4" />

with this code in the python file:

    def render_python(self, arg):
        def _(self, ctx, data):
            exec arg
            return ctx.tag[x]
        return _

I would also say that Nevow templating has all the very same features you
can find in ZPT. You just have to code them yourself, if you really really
need to.

But Nevow is cleaner than ZPT, because there is no actual reason to embed
python code in the template. If you really really need to transform the DOM
in some way you can do that from the python side.

Actually, you can do everything from the python side if you want.

> is usually the case), I'm not a bottleneck.  I'm not sure this is 
> possible in Nevow.

It is as I wrote above. Nevow templating system is _extremely_ flexible and
can be made to do almost everything you need to.

> the template.  To a degree that's already true.  OTOH, I don't know if 
> it's helpful to code alternating row colors for a table in Python, when 
> it will be necessarily far away from the table that needs the coloring.

It is not a necessity. You can code that directly in the template:

<table nevow:data="some_data" nevow:render="sequence">
   <tr nevow:pattern="item" class="odd">...</tr>
   <tr nevow:pattern="item" class="even">...</tr>
</table>

Will work, as expected and will build an alternating color table, I can't
see how this is hard to understand for a designer or any not experienced
programmer.

> Anyway, I'm very suspicious of any system which limits the programmer 
> for their own good.

Which, I would say, It clearly not Nevow.

Sry If I misunderstood something, I'm not that keen with english so... :)

-- 
Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Now running FreeBSD 5.3-beta7
Blog: http://vvolonghi.blogspot.com



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 11 04:13:44 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:13:44 GMT
Subject: Using tuples correctly?
References: <mailman.4680.1097466830.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416a3b23.4280441299@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:53:47 +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?= <bjourne at gmail.com> wrote:

>I like tuples alot. But in some situations you seem to be forced to
>access the elements of a tuple via its indexes and that is pretty
>ugly. For example:
>
># make_color() returns a rgb tuple (r, g, b). I.e. (255, 0, 0)
>print "The red value is: ", make_color()[0]
>
>Not nice at all. It is maybe OK for a rgb tuple that only has three
>elements, but for a tuple that has 10+ elements, index access is
>rediculous. In that case, unpacking wont helpe either. What you would
>like to write is:
>
>print "The red value is: ", make_color().r
>
>You can get that to work by using this recipe
>http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/218485 from
>the Python Cookbook. Then write this:
>
>Color =3D superTuple("Color", ["r", "g", "b"])
>def make_color():
>      return Color(12, 24, 48)
>
>However, then make_color has to assume that there already exists a
>special tuple type named Color. But that assumption is bad and you
>shouldn't need to assume it. You could also write
Why is that bad? You only have to define it once.
>
>return superTuple("Color", ["r", "g", "b"])(12, 24, 48)
>
>To create the tuple type and instantiate it at the same type. But it
>is alot to write. You could trim it down to: st("r", "g", "b")(12, 24,
>48) if you want to save your fingers. Still to much and looks kinda
>awkward.
How about
    return Color(12, 24, 48, order='r g b')
or
    Color.names = 'r g b'.split()  # override names for all instances that don't have order=
    ...                            # above is not even necessary, since that's the initial names value
    return Color(g=24, r=12, b=48) # use names to assign ordered values
or
    return Color()                 # put zeroes for unspecified values to match names length

etc. See below
>
>After some more browsing of the Python Cookbook and googling it seems
>like lots of people is trying to emulate structs on the fly in python.
>So why aren't there a tuple-with-named-attributes type in python? So
>you could write stuff like this:
>
>return (r: 10, g: 20, b: 30) or maybe return (.r 10, .g 20, .b 30)
>
>Clearly, I must be thinking wrong or it would already be implemented
>in python. Atleast there would have been a PEP for it. Maybe I'm just
>using tuples incorrectly and that is why my code uses index access to
>tuples? Someone must have already thought about this and they must
>have discussed it and quickly realized that this is A Very Bad Thing.
>But why?  I'm new, so please dont get to angry if the answer is
>obvious.
>

Not sure what you are needing, but consider yet another class:
(not a speed demon, and not tested beyond what you see below ;-)

 >>> class Color(tuple):
 ...     names = 'r g b'.split()
 ...     def __new__(cls, *args, **kw):
 ...         values = list(args)
 ...         onames = kw.get('order','').split()
 ...         names = onames or cls.names
 ...         if len(names)>len(values): values.extend([0]*(len(names)-len(values)))
 ...         assert len(names)<=len(values)
 ...         for i, name in enumerate(names):
 ...             if name in kw: values[i] = kw.get(name)
 ...         inst = tuple.__new__(cls, values)
 ...         if onames: inst.names=onames
 ...         return inst
 ...     def __getattr__(self, name):
 ...         try: i = object.__getattribute__(self, 'names').index(name)
 ...         except ValueError: raise AttributeError, 'No component named %r'%name
 ...         return tuple.__getitem__(self, i)
 ...
 >>> rgb = Color(1,2,3)
 >>> rgb
 (1, 2, 3)
 >>> rgb.b, rgb.g, rgb.r #in reverse
 (3, 2, 1)
 >>> c0 = Color()
 >>> c0
 (0, 0, 0)
 >>> zip(c0.names, c0)
 [('r', 0), ('g', 0), ('b', 0)]
 >>> c2 = Color(b=33,g=22)
 >>> c2
 (0, 22, 33)
 >>> c3 = Color(red=111, alpha=.5, order='alpha red green blue')
 >>> c3
 (0.5, 111, 0, 0)
 >>> rgb
 (1, 2, 3)
 >>> rgb.g
 2
 >>> c3.green
 0
 >>> c3.alpha
 0.5

Maybe some ideas for what you really want ?;-)
Probably overlaps other super-tuples a fair amount. I didn't look.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Tue Oct 19 18:24:53 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 22:24:53 GMT
Subject: Yet more SMTP
References: <mailman.5170.1098195037.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20041019182453.03406.00001616@mb-m25.aol.com>

To all who have helped me out on this, thanks.  I have finally come to the root
of my rerouted smtp problem.  I didn't create a message id for my header.  Now
I'm not getting my messages dropped.  On another note I still have one annoying
glitch left in my email app.  The '='s that are put at the end of lines in the
html portions of certain emails.  I'll give an example:

.BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; MARGIN-TOP: 0em; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; =

FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0em; MARGIN-LEFT: 4em; COLOR: #427d64; =

BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-y; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial"; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =

#fffffd

I used Ethereal to capture what outlook was doing on outgoing emails, I've
noticed AOL does this as well.  I have tried things like:
mail.append(j.rstrip())
inMail = email.message_from_string('\r\n'.join(mail))  (Thanks for showing me
that) with mail.append running in a for loop I have going through my message
and the message from string bit at the end.  I've tried variations of this
adding '=' into the rstrip parameter deal which does seem to subtract the '=''s
but seems to miss some of them leaving me with html that displays wrong.  


From mwh at python.net  Thu Oct 14 10:51:52 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:51:52 GMT
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net> <ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416d2af0.154298900@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <m3brf5z71z.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> IIRC it was Guido himself who let the cat out of the bag about a
> function, in some early metaclass notes. But maybe I don't RC ;-)

I don't get the fuss about a function vs a class for the value of
__metaclass__.  It's a callable.  It gets called.  No mystery *here*
:)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  ... when all the programmes on all the channels actually were made
  by actors with cleft pallettes speaking lines by dyslexic writers
  filmed by blind cameramen instead of merely seeming like that, it
  somehow made the whole thing more worthwhile.   -- HHGTG, Episode 11


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 11:30:05 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:30:05 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4162BDFD.9010001@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>I suspect that with the same tricks used in 'lingua latina perligata'
>you could make Perl use whitespace like Python, while keeping deeper
>semantic aspects, such as the ability to add integers and strings, which
>you appear to keenly desire.
>
>
>Alex
>  
>
Really?  I can make Perl use whitespace?  Can I get rid of the horrid 
symbols too?


From andreas at kostyrka.org  Wed Oct 13 10:27:10 2004
From: andreas at kostyrka.org (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:27:10 +0200
Subject: quoting %
In-Reply-To: <863c0ihmz7.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
References: <863c0ihmz7.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
Message-ID: <20041013142710.GA12185@kostyrka.org>

On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 01:32:38PM +0200, Matthias Teege wrote:
> 
> Moin,
> 
> I need a string like this "foo '%value%'" for a database query but
> print "'%%s%'"%value gives me TypeError: not all arguments converted
> during string formatting. How does I quote the "%" sign in this case?
Try: "'%%%s%%'"
And if your not completly sure what type value might be, it's better
to use str % (value,) (Hint: what happens if type(value) == tuple)?

Andreas
> 
> Matthias
> -- 
> Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de
> make world not war
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Oct 11 06:13:53 2004
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:13:53 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<7xoejdvinv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<483ad.27373$QJ3.22451@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <wzmzytmuji.fsf@ordesa.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Bryan Olson <fakeaddress at nowhere.org> (BO) wrote:

BO> I'm not really up-to-date on modern multi-processor support.
BO> Back in grad school I read some papers on cache coherence, and I
BO> don't know how well the problems have been solved.  The issue
BO> was that a single processor can support a one-instruction lock
BO> (in the usual no-contention case) simply by supplying an
BO> uninterruptable read-and-update instruction, but on a multi-
BO> processor, all the processors have respect the lock.

For multiprocessor systems, uninterruptible isn't enough (depending on your
definition of uninterruptible). Memory operations from other processors
also shouldn't interleave with the instruction. Modern processors usually
have a 'test and set' or 'compare and swap' instruction for this purpose,
which lock memory for the duration of the operation.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 05:37:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:37:44 +0200
Subject: List Flatten
References: <5c882bb5.0410161531.41713754@posting.google.com>
	<wlLcd.2992$Ug4.819@trndny01>
Message-ID: <1glunh2.tgeb3kedb2ouN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Raymond Hettinger <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:
   ...
> >>> def f(n):
>     iterstack = [iter(n)]
>     while iterstack:
>         for elem in iterstack[-1]:
>             try:
>                 it = iter(elem)
>             except TypeError:
>                 pass
>             else:
>                 if not isinstance(elem, basestring):
>                     iterstack.append(it)
>                     break
>             yield elem
>         else:
>             iterstack.pop()  # remove iterator only when it is exhausted

Nice!  I was wondering about a sligthly different ordering...:

def flatten(sequence, isatomic=None):
    if isatomic is None:
        def isatomic(item): return isinstance(item, basestring)
    stack = [iter(sequence)]
    while stack:
        for item in stack[-1]:
            if not isatomic(item):
                try: stack.append(iter(item))
                except TypeError: pass
                else: break
            yield item
        else:
            stack.pop()

Very similar, of course, but for some reason it looks nicer to me to
enter the try/except/else only after "singling out" items that are meant
to be taken as "atomic" no matter what (by default, all strings).  I'm
not sure how to weigh the pro's and con's of the two very similar
variations.  Maybe the second one may be preferred on a rather minor
aspect: if I'm flattening a sequence which, I suspect, will contain lots
of numbers at the leaves, I could code and pass in something like:

def isatomic(item):
    return isinstance(item, (basestring, int, long, float, complex))

and bypass the try/except for all those numbers, perhaps speeding things
up...?  (unmeasured...).  BTW, this does point out how nice a
baseinteger and/or basenumber analog to basestring would be, to shorten
that longish tuple of types.  Ah well, maybe in 2.5!-)


Alex


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Oct 16 21:10:22 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:10:22 -0700
Subject: Some notes
In-Reply-To: <1glr5vz.s10y5ympbao9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glm9eg.1yldhpvtdfww2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416fee05$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
	<1glr5vz.s10y5ympbao9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4171cb7a@nntp0.pdx.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
>... The iterator over arguments, which I propose, could not be implemented
> in Python today (Python today has no way to collect yet-unevaluated
> arguments).
Ah -- that was what I didn't get: I hadn't understood f(@_args) to be 
more than f(*list(_args)) and so the rest made no sense at all to me.
Sort of an evalquote kind of thing (I think, it has been decades), I
guess.  Thanks for taking the time to explain.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From claird at lairds.us  Fri Oct  1 11:08:13 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:08:13 GMT
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<MJednUj3F8J40MDcRVn-sA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4176.1096636511.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qc5032-n84.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.4176.1096636511.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Neil Benn  <benn at cenix-bioscience.com> wrote:
			.
		[specific points
		that deserve
		reply--later]
			.
			.
>    Good to see that you didn't use ActiveX (if one more company 
>_boasts_ that their equipment comes with 'industry standard' ActiveX I 
>think I'm going to cry)!!  Believe it or not I still have to interact 
>with some equipment using DDE!!!!
			.
			.
			.
Believe it?  Why, I'd guess if you're working in the real
world at all, there are times when you wish, "If only this
were advanced enough to support DDE."

I know about those tears that vendors' advertisements can
inspire.


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 10 22:19:03 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 02:19:03 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.10.16.48.24.930075@jerf.org>
	<4169982d.4238722751@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.10.19.48.01.604089@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <4169c7ad.4250882926@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:24:57 GMT, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:03:08 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>> What's right about accepting 3^7 ? Why should xor be defined for integers?
>> IMO we have implicit subtyping of integers as vectors or column matrices
>> of bools and operations element by element and implicit re-presentation
>> of the result as integer.
>
>I'm intrigued but torn by your arguments.
>
>For positive numbers, a number really is its vector of bits. In the
              ^^^^^[1]              [2]^^ ^^^[3]        ^^^^[4]
[1] Abstract, non-negative integers?
[2] "is" as in "is identical with"? I doubt it.
[3] In what sense does an abstract number posess (its) a vector of bits?
    I take it 'its' is in the sense of a 1:1 mapping to the corresponding
    (unique) vector of "bits".
[4] A two's complement representation of an (abstract) integer, has "bits"
    as _numerical_ values in the sum series with corresponding numerical
    coefficients that are powers of two. But "bits" in the context of
    bitwise ^ or & or | do not represent abstract _numerical_ values or 0 or 1,
    they represent logical values False or True (and 0<->False, 1<->True is
    just a convention that we're used to.


>mathematical sense of "equal" (which I usually express in English as "two
>equal things are fully substitutable with each other in all relevant
>contexts"), where all base numbers are written in base 10:
>
>10 base 10 = 11 base 9 = 22 base 4 = 1010 base 2
>
>The fact that it happens to really be a bit vector in the computer in this
            [1]^^         [2]^^^^^^^^^   ^^^[3]
[1] The abstract integer value?
[2] have 1:1 mapping to?
[3] bit is short for binary _digit_, not binary logic-value -- i.e., it's numeric,
    and ties in with your base 2 representation.
>case actually doesn't count for anything, because just as that bit vector
>*is*, in every conceivable mathematical way, a base 10 number, it is also
1:1 correspondence is not identity. IOW, there's no such thing as "a base 10 number"
There is a set of abstract integers, and each can be put into 1:1 correpondence with
a set of symbols and rules. A "base 10 number" is composed with a set of digits [0-9]
and a rule for ordered composition and a rule for an interpretation to map back to
the abstract value. We can discuss each part of this process, but the bottom line is
that when we say that represented values are equal, we are saying that representations
map back to the same unique abstract value, not that representations per se are identical.

>a base 3 number. I can and have defined ternary math before, and
>experimental computers have been built on ternary bases and ternary logic,
>and 44 in a binary computer is 44 in a ternary computer.
Sure, but again we are talking unique abstract integers vs various representations
and the rules for composing them and interpreting them. BTW, did you ever hear
of bi-quinary? That was a 4-bit representation of a decimal digit where the msb
had a "coefficient" of 5 and the 3 lsb's counted in binary modulo 5 ;-)

>
>Only our choice of negative numbers, practically speaking, makes a
>difference between the number-as-bitstring and number-qua-number, and
>something as high level as Python can conceptually use an extra "negative"
>bit so even that distinction goes away. In fact, playing with xor'ing
>longs makes me wonder if Python doesn't *already* do that.
Yes, it plays the as-if-extended-infinitely-to-the-left game with sign bits,
but the hex representation of negative longs is not much good for seeing what
the bits are in a negative number >;-(
>
>>     What is boolvec(388488839405842L) ^ boolvec("hello")?
>
>I'd rather see this as the fairly meaningless "388488839405842L base 2",
>meaningless because the base of a number does not affect its value, and
>bitwise-xor, as the name implies, operates on the number base two.
Well, to be nit-picky, I still think it does not really operate on a number
at all. It converts a number to an ordered set of bools, by way of an intermediate
two's complement _representation_ whose _numeric_ bit values are mapped to bool values.
Then, after the operating with the ordered sets of bools, the resulting set is mapped
back to a two's complement integer representation again, which can be interpreted as
an abstract integer value again ;-)

>
>Since I reject the need to cast ^ in terms of boolvec, I don't feel
>compelled to try to define "boolvec" for strings. Cast it into a number
>explicitly, refusing the temptation to guess.
>
>> Except where there is an accepted legacy of such things being done already ;-)
>> 
>> BTW, what is the rationale behind this:
>> 
>>  >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count(0)
>>  3
>>  >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count(())
>>  1
>>  >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count([])
>>  1
>>  >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count('')
>>  1
>>  >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count(0.0)
>>  3
>>  >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L].count(0L)
>>  3
>
I guess this shows what's happening

 >>> class joker(object):
 ...     def __cmp__(self, other): return 0
 ...
 >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L, joker()].count('')
 2
 >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L, joker()].count(())
 2
 >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L, joker()].count(0)
 4
 >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L, joker()].count(0.0)
 4
 >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L, joker()].count(0L)
 4
 >>> ['',(),[],0, 0.0, 0L, joker()].count(joker())
 7

>Again, considered abstractly as numbers, 0 is zero no matter how you slice
>it. Abstractly, even floats have a binary representation, just as they
I think of "float" as indicating representation technique, as opposed to "real"
which I think of as a point in the continuous abstract -+infinity interval
of real numbers.

>have a decimal representation, and we could even xor them. Realistically,
>it is much less useful and there is the infinite-length problem of floats
>to deal with.
Infinite-length problem...must...not...go...there... ;-)
>
>Theoretically, no float should ever equal an int or a long, since an Int
>or Long conceptually identifies exactly one point and a float should be
>seen as representing a range of numbers depending on the precision that
IMO a float should be seen as what it is (a _representation_), which may be
interpreted variously, just like integers ;-)

IOW, a typical float is a 64-bit IEEE-754 double, so there are 2**64
possible states of the representation machinery. Not all of
those states are legal floating point number representations, but each one
that _is_ legal corresponds to an _exact_ abstract real value. It _can_ be
the exact value you wanted to represent, or not, depending on your programming
problem. Inexactness in not a property of floating point representations, it is
a property of their _relation_ to the exact abstract values the programmer is trying
to represent. 0.0 represents the exact same abstract value as integer 0
(perhaps by way of mapping integers conceived as separate to a subset of reals).

>can be made arbitrarily small but never truly identifies one point. This
I disagree. 0.0 truly identifies one point. So does

    3.141592653589793115997963468544185161590576171875

which is the _exact_ value of math.pi in decimal representation.
But this is _not_ the exact value of the abstract mathematical pi.

But that is not a problem with floating point numbers' not representing
exact values. It's that the set of available exact values is finite, and
you have to choose one to approximate (including right on sometimes) an abstract value.
(Or you might choose two to represent _exact_ bounds on a value, for interval math).

>is another one of those "practicality beats purity" things.
I think the fact that repr(math.pi) is not printed as above is
a case of "practicality beats purity" ;-)

 >>> import math
 >>> repr(math.pi)
 '3.1415926535897931'
 >>> float(repr(math.pi))
 3.1415926535897931
 >>> float(repr(math.pi)) == float(3.141592653589793115997963468544185161590576171875)
 True

IMO floats have their own kind of purity, besides being practical ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 17 20:12:28 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:12:28 -0700
Subject: Yahoo SMTP
In-Reply-To: <20041017235047.4730.519119761.divmod.quotient.1061@ohm>
References: <20041017161751.0A08.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<20041017235047.4730.519119761.divmod.quotient.1061@ohm>
Message-ID: <20041017170711.0A0B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

>     >>> import smtplib
>     >>> smtplib.SMTP.debuglevel = 1
>     >>> smtplib.SMTP('foo.bar')
>     connect: ('foo.bar', 25)
> 
>   Connecting to TCP port 0 makes no sense, so that would be a silly default behavior.

Ahh, I just noticed the SMTP_PORT reference in SMTP.connect()

Regardless, doing a secondary connect() call without arguments just
connects locally...

>>> smtplib.SMTP.debuglevel = 1
>>> a = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.mail.yahoo.com')
connect: ('smtp.mail.yahoo.com', 25)
connect: ('smtp.mail.yahoo.com', 25)
reply: '220 smtp011.mail.yahoo.com ESMTP\r\n'
reply: retcode (220); Msg: smtp011.mail.yahoo.com ESMTP
connect: smtp011.mail.yahoo.com ESMTP
>>> a.connect()
connect: ('localhost', 25)
connect: ('localhost', 25)
connect fail: ('localhost', 25)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "f:\apps\python23\lib\smtplib.py", line 302, in connect
    raise socket.error, msg
socket.error: (10061, 'Connection refused')


So the port 25 isn't necessary, but the secondary connect the original
poster used, kills his connection.

 - Josiah



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Wed Oct  6 07:08:47 2004
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:08:47 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<YoO8d.4762$gk.1769@okepread01>
Message-ID: <3nQ8d.16242$5O5.16154@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Steve Holden:

> Until that time I hadn't realized that the laptop was built on a
> multi-core processor.

   It is more likely you had a machine that featured 'hyperthreading' which
is much less than multiple cores. Somewhere between two sets of registers
and two processors.

> Fortunately the task was easily partitioned into
> two independent processes, each dealing with a separate set of database
> rows, so the run completed well under the necessary 24 hours.

   Did you measure a real performance increase, that is, elapsed time to
completion of job? Many benchmarks show minimal or even negative performance
improvements for hyperthreading. Relying on secondary indicators such as CPU
busyness can be misleading.

   Neil




From ville at spammers.com  Sat Oct 16 03:54:01 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 10:54:01 +0300
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>
	<416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
	<mailman.4998.1097833203.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7ekjz3lly.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp6fb$gvi$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<du7sm8f24h4.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckp90u$s9l$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
	<du7fz4f209r.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<ckplag$99o$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <du74qkvayjq.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Jarek" == Jarek Zgoda <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> writes:

    >> I don't think GPL allows linking with non-free stuff at
    >> all. Not even with special permissions. If it does, it's not
    >> GPL but some other, GPL-like license.

    Jarek> No, it's perfectly legal.

    Jarek> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCGPLIncompatibleLibs

So it seems. You live, you learn :-).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From listserver at tdw.net  Fri Oct  8 07:34:18 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:34:18 +0100
Subject: smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
Message-ID: <00ab01c4ad2a$bfe9aa90$ccbefea9@twilliams>

[apologies if you got this twice]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at uci.edu>

>
> > If you want to use file primitives to read the value back, just create
> > another one:
> >
> > inpt = StringIO.StringIO(firstStringIO.getvalue())
> >
> > then you can read the printed output from inpt just like a file.
>
> Or even:
>
>  firstStringIO.seek(0)
>
>  - Josiah

Steve, Andrew, Josiah,

Thanks for your answers.

The outgoing SMTP is multi-threaded,   so the threads disrupt each other's
output to the file-like object  if there is any concurrent outgoing mail
activity.

Is there anyway I can seperate the output from each thread and capture it ?

The outgoing threads are started  with

thread.start_new_thread(outThread,(args,None))

One thread per out-going message.  Each handles the outgoing message sending
and error-handling for the message.   I can't talk back to the calling
thread/class because it is the incoming SMTP part and it is destroyed when
the remote client connection is dropped.  (The SMTP server is a filtering
relay)

TIA








From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Mon Oct 25 18:41:10 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:41:10 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-54474F.18411025102004@localhost>

In article <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd at posting.google.com>,
 kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik) wrote:

> there seems to be a serious problem with allowing numbers to grow in a
> nearly unbounded manner, as int/long unification does: it hides bugs.

Can you exhibit any non-trivial examples of the types of bugs you are 
talking about?

-M

-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Oct 14 21:04:25 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 01:04:25 GMT
Subject: Using pickle with setattr
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4976.1097793765.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <416CA456.8070409@kzoo.edu>
	<mailman.4976.1097793765.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tmFbd.3426$6k2.3325@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

dataangel wrote:

>> I'm wondering whether or not the standard 
>> Pickle module will handle this or not -- will an object pickle 
>> correctly if it has methods that are not in its original class 
>> definition?

Instances pickle references to class by name, not by value.
If you have restore to a class with the same name but different
semantics then it may or may not work.  It depends on how it
was coded.

>> That 
>> I'm not planning to do -- I'm changing the attributes of the object 
>> itself.

Changing the attributes of the instance or the class?  The former
goes into the pickle'd dictionary, the latter does not.

>> If it won't, what are my options? Also, is there a module available 
>> for saving the complete state of an object such that it is loadable 
>> without the python source for the original class?

No.  Consider

import os

class Spam(object):
   my_os = os

How can pickle save all of 'os'?  Or consider

class Read:
   infile = open("/etc/passwd")
   def __init__(self):
     self.line = self.infile.readline()

File objects can't be pickled.


> I'm flabbergasted. Nobody on the python mailing list knows? I've stumped 
> the experts? ;)
> 
> Or maybe my question is stupid for somer reason? :P

You weren't clear about what you wanted.  It's hard for us
to read your mind.  You could have gotten some of these answers
by reading the docs at and around
   http://www.python.org/doc/lib/node65.html

and through experimentation.
				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From jerf at jerf.org  Fri Oct 15 19:29:48 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:29:48 GMT
Subject: checking available system memory?
References: <ckpa75$muv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.15.19.29.09.747490@jerf.org>

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:59:12 -0400, Darren Dale wrote:

> I am doing linear algebra with large numarray. It is very efficient, but I
> have a small problem due to the size of my data. The dot product of a
> 10,000x3 double array with a 3x6,250,000 double array"  will consume
> 500GB of memory. I need to break the operations up into managable
> chunks, so I dont consume all the available memory and get a
> segmentation fault.
> 
> Its not a problem with numpy, I just need to intelligently slice up one
> of my arrays so my routine works within the available system resources.
> Are there any utilities that can query how much memory is available?

I don't know what you're doing with that, but you're well into the domain
where you may have to trade running time for memory.

I am not familiar with the terms "10,000x3 double array with a 3x6,250,000
double array" (particularly "double array"), but speaking in general
terms, assuming the dot product is something like the vector dot product I
know, you can wrap your two source arrays in an object that lazily
computes the relevant dot product. Shell:

class LazyDotProduct(object):
    def __init__(self, a, b):
        self.a = a
        self.b = b

    def __getitem__(self, index):
        return dot_prodect(self.a, self.b, index)

Add an optional cache to getitem if you need it and can afford it.
"dot_product" computes the relevant dot product element. 

Just a thought; I may be over-extrapolating from what I know.


From beliavsky at aol.com  Fri Oct 29 21:39:04 2004
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 18:39:04 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3064b51d.0410260928.1873a20d@posting.google.com>
	<1gme4mk.1rlz70v1cswu9zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0410291739.35cb9de6@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gme4mk.1rlz70v1cswu9zN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> <beliavsky at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> > aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message
>  news:<1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> >  
> > > > No, no, I want the C speed.
> > > 
> > > Then use C: no other portable language (including C++ when properly
> > > used) quite matches C's speed across the board.
> > 
> > I doubt this assertion -- Fortran is portable and is easier to
> > optimize than C, in part because pointers are used less.
> 
> For numeric computing, yes.  "Across the board", no.  I've done almost
> as much Fortran as C in my life... but while it was fully appropriate
> back when I was in IBM Research doing (what at the time was called)
> "supercomputing", when I moved to a small SW house doing CAD for
> mechanical engineering, I soon determined that Fortran's limitations
> were costing us a lot in both development time and runtime efficiency.

Were you using Fortran 77? Most of this version's limitations (rigid
source form, no abstract data types, no dynamic memory allocation, no
compile-time checking of procedure calls) were fixed in Fortran 90.

<SNIP>
 
> > Fortran 95 and Python with Numeric or Numarray are comparably high
> > level languages, but Fortran has a performance edge of 2-100 in the
> 
> I disagree on the level -- Numeric reminds me much more of APL, which
> was regularly used for exploratory numeric computing in IBM Research,
> before the most promising approaches, needing to run on frightening
> amounts of data, got recoded in Fortran (contradicting your assertion
> that "good programmers don't want to recode": if they're good, they
> _are_ in fact quite willing to, if and when top performance is needed in
> some computational kernel).

Fortran 90 and later versions have array operations, including array
sections, similar to Matlab or Python with Numeric or Numarray. Are
you familiar with the array functionality of F90/95? If so, what
important functionality do you find lacking, compared to Numeric or
Numarray?

<SNIP>

> > There is even a free, fast compiler called G95 for these
> > platforms -- see http://www.g95.org .
> 
> Are you claiming this is _MATURE_ while pyrex isn't?  Literally
> speaking, you are, since you earlier stated, baldly and without any
> qualification, that "Fortran 95 compilers are mature", and here you
> appear to be implying that G95 is a Fortran 95 compiler -- so, the
> sillogism is compelling.

The mature Fortran compilers I was thinking of are commercial products
from Intel, Lahey, Absoft, NAG, and other vendors, with links at
http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Fortran/Compilers/
. G95 is still under development, but it does compile a wide range of
production codes, some listed at http://www.g95.org/g95_status.html .

My general argument is that Python advocates are attacking a straw man
when they talk as if the main alternative to a high-level modern
language like Python is good old C. If they compare Python with C++
with OOP and STL for general-purpose programming, or with Fortran 95
for scientific computing, some of the "high-level" advantage of Python
disappears.


From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Oct 23 02:23:55 2004
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:23:55 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python and generic programming
In-Reply-To: <WP9ed.3$9o.2@fe61.usenetserver.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de> <WP9ed.3$9o.2@fe61.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410231021540.3171@rnd.onego.ru>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Hans Nowak wrote:

>Oliver Fromme wrote:
>> Type checking at compile time does _not_ necessarily require
>> static typing.
>>
>> For a counter example, look at O'Caml.  It is a dynamically
>> typed functional language (using type inference, pattern
>> matchingetc.) with compile-time type checking.
>
>OCaml is statically typed.  This from http://caml.inria.fr/ercim.html:

It is. But nonetheless it is very flexible wrt types.


>
>--Hans
>
>

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 18 21:22:00 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:22:00 -0400
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>

Jonathan Ellis wrote:
> Andrea Griffini wrote:
>>I proposed python as the main language for our next CAD/CAM
>>software because I think that it has all the potential needed
>>for it. 
> 
> Wouldn't it have been better to ask these questions BEFORE proposing
> python as (presumably) a Great Solution?  IMO, as great as python is,
> it isn't appropriate for projects that are large and include many
> developers.

I don't know what Jonathan's experience with using Python in
large teams and projects is, but mine includes four years
as Director of Software Engineering at a wireless tech company
and a team that ran between ten or fifteen people, and a very
large amount of code.  We found Python to be *very* appropriate
for this and of course anything smaller.

> The benefits of static typing, not least among which is the vastly
> superior ease of creating tools that "understand" the language,
> outweigh python's advantages in an environment when many people are
> writing a lot of code.  

While it appears true that it is easier to develop certain
tools for statically typed languages, it's not at all apparent
that this small benefit outweighs the very significant advantages
that Python brings to large-scale development, and to large-team
development.  I'll add "especially when using test-driven
development and any agile process", and to be perfectly honest
I'm not sure I would recommend Python nearly as strongly if one
was forced to use a traditional, non-agile approach to the work.

My past posts on the subject have covered this a number of times.
I have to admit I haven't seen anything from Jonathan on this
topic, so I can't say how his experience compares with mine, nor
why he would feel the way he does.

-Peter


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 10:46:47 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 07:46:47 -0700
Subject: cgi long running jobs
References: <383854e0.0410030601.59ddfd34@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.10.04.14.38.43.605384@thomas-guettler.de>
	<383854e0.0410120153.2fcc5424@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410120646.4f4b04d7@posting.google.com>

vineeth at gmail.com (Vineeth S) wrote in message news:<383854e0.0410120153.2fcc5424 at posting.google.com>...
> Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.04.14.38.43.605384 at thomas-guettler.de>...
> > Am Sun, 03 Oct 2004 07:01:50 -0700 schrieb Vineeth S:
> > 
>  
> > > What I tried initially was a client-pull, where with the first "please
> > > wait" I would send a refresh header with a flag as parameter, and then
> > > use that flag to check for completion, else send a new "please wait
> > > <blah>". This did not work, I am guessing, because the request and the
> > > subsequent process has been tied to that session, am I correct ?
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > How do you check the flag?
> > 
> 
> I check to see if the form has this variable
> 
> > You can do it like this:
> > One script or method called "startProcess": Start the
> > real work in background (os.system(".... 2>&1 &")).
> > This returns a redirect to "waitForProcess?id=..."
> > 
> 
> Ah, I didnt think of backgrounding the job. But I am wondering will
> apache release control to another script or page ? In the sequential
> nature of things it should. I will try this.

I don't *know* but many servers are set up not to allow background
processes and not to allow any CGI process to run for more than a set
length of time. On servers this is 1 minute, on others it can even be
30 seconds.

Can you split your process into several parts ? You an then send a
redirect header causing the browser to send a new request which
triggers the next part - effectively chaining requests through
redirect headers.

> > 
> > > Going by that reasoning, I tried a fork-exec to run the long job, and
> > > periodically check for completion from the parent. This does not work
> > > either, and this has foxed me. Is it because fork-exec in the cgi
> > > context has some other behaviour ?
> > 
> > What kind of session-management do you use?
> > 
> 
> I did not understand what exactly you meant by session-management.
> 

How do you save the state of each process in between accesses.
The answer is probably that you aren't doing any. If you follow my
suggestion you will have to 'save the state' of your process part way
through for it to pick up in the next request. You will then have to
work out some way of dealing with saved stuff that never gets
completed - this is all 'session management'.

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


> > HTH,
> >  Thomas
> 
> Thanks and regards
> Vineeth


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 11:12:31 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 08:12:31 -0700
Subject: Python CGI - outputting to textarea
References: <99351542.0410111318.533188f0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410120712.2cf3542f@posting.google.com>

larsmtl at yahoo.com (LarsenMTL) wrote in message news:<99351542.0410111318.533188f0 at posting.google.com>...
> I have a long running python cgi which in the end returns a link to a
> pdf file. While it runs it generates a log that uses stdout right into
> the html.  I use the sys.stdout.flush() to make this log output
> relatively realtime.
> 
> The log, however, has grown too long.  I wish to output it instead
> into a textarea.  I thought I could just use the textarea tags before
> the output starts.  This works, but my output is no longer "real time"
> even with the flush (it waits till I close the textarea tag to display
> it).  Anyone know a method how I can make it write to the textarea as
> it goes?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark

Using javascript to read the data and insert it into the text box,
with a regular refresh sounds like the way forward. *OR* close a
textarea tag every few k of text and start a new box....

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Tue Oct 12 17:58:36 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:58:36 -0400
Subject: School Project, Need Help Fast!
In-Reply-To: <000801c4b09f$3f282260$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>
References: <000801c4b09f$3f282260$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <416C538C.3090707@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Gavin Bauer said unto the world upon 2004-10-12 17:05:
> Please respond ASAP, the project is due soon.

 > In science, we are doing a "creative mini project" about minerals.
 > People can write a song, or make a movie, etc. etc. Being the dry,
 > uncreative person I am, I chose to use my limited python knowledge to
 > create a "Mineral Program" the idea is that a person inputs a mineral
 > name, and then the program gives them all the information about the
 > mineral. At first I figured this would be easy. I would make an input
 > line for mineral. Then I would use and if statement, and a whole
 > bunch of elif statements, to give the info, here is the broken
 > program I came up with:
> 

Hi Gavin,

I am no Python expert, but here's my go on how to help:

1) Set your email client to wrap lines. It make quoting you a lot easier :-)

2) In general, tell people why you think your program is broken. Again, 
easier.

3) You are using input() to get the mineral name. Don't. Use raw_input() 
instead. Why?

The general, good practise, reason is that input() is scary, as it 
executes code. Thus, if someone is mean and knowledgeable, or just 
(un)lucky, they could type in some input to do evil things like delete a 
directory on your drive.

For your purposes it isn't the right thing, either. input() does an eval 
on whatever the user types, so it doesn't give you back a string. Since 
you don't have names floating around with all the possible user input 
values in them, this isn't working--there is nothing to execute when 
someone types Iron as input. raw_input() is both safe, and gives you a 
string directly from the user's input. So, go with that ;-)

4) Now that mineral will be some string (thanks to raw_input() ), all of 
your if tests need to compare the string to a string. So, you need an 
equality check, not an assignment, and a string, not a name. Thus, they 
should be like

if mineral == "Augite":
     # Do Augite stuff

5) It is probably too late in the day, but rather than 30 if clauses, 
you'd be better of using a dictionary approach, or at least iterating 
over a list of the strings of the mineral names you have answers for. If 
you've got time to reactor and need help, ask again.

6) If you keep going with Python, you might want to check out the tutor 
list: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/

Hope that helps,

Brian vdB

> print "Hi! Welcome to Gavins mineral project!"
> print "We currently have a database of 30 minerals!"
> print "Simply type the mineral's name, with the first letter capitalized."
> print "To see what minerals we have available, type: List Minerals"
> print "For futher help, type: Help"
> print "To leave, type: Exit"
> print ""
> mineral = input("Mineral:")
> while mineral != Exit:
>     if mineral = Augite:
>         print "a"
>     elif mineral = Bauxite:
>         print "a"

<SNIP'ed a bunch of elifs>

>     elif mineral = Talc:
>         print "a"
>     elif mineral = List Minerals:
>         print "a"
>     elif mineral = Help:
>         print "a"
>     else:
>         print "That mineral isn't in our database."
>         print "Type Help for further assistance or try again."
> 
> raw_input("Press enter to exit")
> 
> The "a"'s would be where I would put all the mineral information. I figured I'd get the program straight before I did research. The "press enter to exit" thing is because my DOS shuts off the second it finishes computing, which leaves me without seeing the final information. I would love it if someone knew how I could change my Dos preference, but I would be pushing my luck to get a response in time at all.
> 
> Thanks a lot   -Gavin
> 




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 03:44:30 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:44:30 +0200
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<EPmdnagKPrUPhtPcRVn-iQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.3529.1095642828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gkgxts.1fq0rwq10mycqiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41513aac$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gkih9r.pfgqukvpt1rcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<37tjl09an200u6tejkrtklc8ib86uk7rm1@4ax.com>
	<7E_6d.33917$35.1643590@news4.tin.it>
	<Cj08d.164190$MQ5.50781@attbi_s52>
	<1gl4haj.15lm6eufbcchqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Xns95785A9E572D2JanC@213.118.38.197>
Message-ID: <1gl4kcx.1byqnzm1ygitfsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

JanC <usenet_spam at janc.invalid> wrote:

> Alex Martelli schreef:
> 
> > More interestingly, one might infer a desire to recapture for positive
> > self-identification a word that has acquired negative connotations in
> > popular use.  Perhaps the best-known such fight currently going on is
> > for the word "hacker", but, after all, such _is_ the history of quite a
> > few other words... consider "gothic" and "baroque"...
> 
> Well, if you go to a "gothic" record store, you'll find one or more racks
> labeled "medieval", which in reality contains music that's mostly based on
> "early renaissance" music...   ;-)

Oh, definitely.  Part of the problem, of course, is that the boundary
between the middle ages and the renaissance is anything but the sharp
hard line most people appear to believe; of course, Johan Huizinga first
made this point (although it wasn't the one he mostly _intended_ to
make...) *generations* ago -- and I gather there's a reasonably recent
(and quite good, I've heard!) re-translation of his masterpiece, "The
Autumn of the Middle Ages", into English (the previous translation had
been titled "The Waning of the Middle Ages" instead).

Some late medieval / early renaissance developments in Central and
Northern Italy, in particular, show up the transition quite sharply.
Our successful merchants were laying the basis of modern capitalism
(based on such revolutionary tools as "arabic numbers", double-entry
book-keeping, letters of credit, banks, ...), but at the same time had
an account in their books for "messer Domeneddio" ("mister the Lord
God"), treated as a partner in their enterprises, to which they recorded
tithes just as shares of profits were recorded to other partners.  The
three great authors who can be credited with creating the Italian
language (Dante Alighieri, Petrarca, Boccaccio) were all humanists --
but Dante was also a theologian, and a scholar very much in the late
medieval mold, while Petrarca was also a merchant and a mystic, and
Boccaccio (as far as we know, since he destroyed all poetry he had
written, leaving only prose) was entirely rooted in the human reality of
this world and had no interest in writing about angels or demons...

So, music no doubt went through a similarly hard-to-call transition
(even though it's harder to trace than finance, poetry, fiction).  So
did other fields, after all: for example, the beautiful plate armor that
most people associate with "medieval knights" is in fact almost entirely
from the renaissance (at least in Italy... the renaissance came later to
other parts!), a transient attempt to ward off the firearms (and
effective use of pole weapons and arrows by disciplined infantry) that
were spelling the end of the time in which heavy cavalry ruled the
battlefields of Western Europe.

All in all, I find the confusion involved in calling early renaissance
music "medieval" quite understandable and mostly forgivable.  Nothing
like the _huge_ distortion implied by calling _classical_ music the
music made by _romantic_ composers whose main ideological thrust was a
rebellion *against* the aesthetics and ideology of the classical
movement... and yet that's a horror that has long been perpetrated by
all manners of music publishers and stores, isn't it?!


Alex


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct  6 14:36:12 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:36:12 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <41642CCB.1030503@cloudthunder.com>
References: <20041005103121.ECDA.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<41642CCB.1030503@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <20041006112905.ED18.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> >>Weird, I guess that means I can manipulate them in this way.  Wonder if 
> >>I can add keywords...
> >
> >Nope, changing the contents of that module won't change the behavior of
> >the interpretor.
> >
> Argg, what's it for then I ask?

I use keyword.kwlist for syntax highlighting keywords in my editor.  I'm
sure others use it for other reasons.


> >>Great, I'll check that out.  I guess that will allow me to extend the 
> >>language in C.
> >
> >Yes, though Pyrex is not required for C<->Python interaction.  You can
> >do it all by hand, though SWIG and Boost Python seem to work pretty well.
> >
> Can I use Pyrex with the Psycho JIT?

Psyco can only speed up Python.  Libraries that are already compiled
C/C++/whatever will gain nothing.

I would doubt there would be any issues involving using Pyrex for making
compiled modules, then also using Psyco to speed up the leftover Python
code.


 - Josiah



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 12:36:11 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:36:11 +0200
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> wrote:
   ...
> You'll note I use the spurious sentinel local variable to mark unused
> values rather than None (which is likely to appear in a general
> list).  I think this technique (which I invented a few minutes ago!)
> is guaranteed correct (ie sentinel can never occur in iterator).
   ...
>     sentinel = []

It's fine, but I would still suggest using the Canonical Pythonic Way To
Make a Sentinel Object:

    sentinel = object()

Since an immediate instance of type object has no possible use except as
a unique, distinguishable placeholder, this way you're "strongly saying"
``this thing here is a sentinel''.  An empty list _might_ be intended
for many other purposes, a reader of your code (assumed to be perfectly
conversant with the language and built-ins of course) may hesitate a
microsecond more (looking around the code for other uses of this
object), while the CPWtMaSO shouldn't leave room for doubt...


Alex


From tchur at optushome.com.au  Mon Oct 25 22:43:44 2004
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:43:44 +1000
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <clk9j5$5mi$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <000401c4bb05$9c614ef0$6401a8c0@emilio>

From: python-list-bounces+tchur=optushome.com.au at python.org 
> [mailto:python-list-bounces+tchur=optushome.com.au at python.org]
>  On Behalf Of Robert Kern
> Sent: Tuesday, 26 October 2004 11:34 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: GPL and Python modules.
> 
> 
> Tim Churches wrote:
> > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 11:12, Robert Kern wrote:
> 
> >>Whether just using system calls is simply "normal use" for a GPLd OS
> >>kernel or this is simply a special exception to the GPL for 
> Linux only 
> >>is something that a court will have to decide. But such a 
> suit would 
> >>have to be about some other GPL kernel, not Linux.
> > 
> > 
> > Looks like it is a special exception for the Linux kernel 
> (or whatever 
> > other Linux code is distributed with this COPYING file. 
> Doesn't apply 
> > to other GPLed code.
> 
> Well, not necessarily. It certainly isn't phrased as one. It 
> is at least 
> a statement of someone's (Linus's?) belief that standard applications 
> that only use system calls and running on Linux are not 
> derivative works 
> with respect to Linux.

Yes, so it is a specific exemption to the GPL granted by the copyright
holder(s) of the Linux kernel code. The GPL allows the copyright holder to
grant exemptions to the GPL privisions as they see fit - but no-one else.

> Are Windows programs actual derivative 
> works of 
> the Windows kernel? Does the Windows EULA make a statement about the 
> derivative status of applications?

No, and no. An important point of difference between the world views held
by, say, Steve Ballmer and, say, Richard Stallman.

Tim C
 



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 18:11:02 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 15:11:02 -0700
Subject: Dict lookup shortcut?
References: <ckgfl4$a9$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410121411.5be81a06@posting.google.com>

"M. Clift" <noone at here.com> wrote in message news:<ckgfl4$a9$1 at newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> Hi All,
> 
> Can someone tell me is there a shorthand version to do this?
> 
> l1 = ['n1', 'n3', 'n1'...'n23'...etc...]
> 
> Names = {'n1':'Cuthbert','n2' :'Grub','n3' :'Dibble' etc...}
> 
> for name in l1:
>     print Names[name],
> 
> Rather than listing all the name+numbers keys in the dictionary can these
> keys be shortened somehow into one key and a range?
> 

You could just use the integers as keys.

*Or* you could do :
alist = Names.items()
alist.sort()
alist[n][1]   is the nth name
(alist[n] = (nth key, nth name) )

HTH

Fuzzy

> Thanks,
> 
> M


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Thu Oct 28 10:18:31 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 07:18:31 -0700
Subject: OSA Python
References: <417d39ec$0$62032$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<417f74f3$0$62050$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0410280618.1bc1cc16@posting.google.com>

Mark Schonewille <nospam at nospam.com> wrote in message news:<417f74f3$0$62050$ee9da40f at news.wanadoo.nl>...
> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone have the OSA Python extension for MacOS 9? I tried 
> to contact Bill Fancher, but the e-mail address on his website 
> is incorrect. Does anyone know how to contact him? I would 
> appreciate your help very much.

I think Bill disappeared very suddenly off the net sometime back in
2002. I don't know if anyone knows what happened to him or has heard
or seen of him since. (I heard he went offline after discovering he
was ill - cancer or something - but don't have any more details.)

As to your request for an OSA-compatible version of Python for OS9, if
no-one's replied to you about this then chances are it's not/never
hass been available. Current work on MacPython's Apple event and OSA
component support is all OS X-based (see
<http://homepage.mac.com/philip_aker/osa/osa.html>,
<http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/appscript.html>) so
you're probably SOOL as far as finding anything for OS 9 goes.

Sorry I can't be more help,

has


From dbickett at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 22:30:55 2004
From: dbickett at gmail.com (Daniel Bickett)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:30:55 -0400
Subject: Turning a string into an programatic mathematical expression
Message-ID: <1d6cdae3041019193075d9a137@mail.gmail.com>

The title really says it all. I'm trying to take input from a user
(intended to be a mathematical expression), from a text box for
example, and evaluate it mathematically within the program. For
clarification: the user inputs the string "4*5(3-3)", I would be
interested in a straight-forward way to find the result of that, based
only on a string. The follow-up question would be how to incorporate
variables into the mix, however I'll leave it at that for now. Thanks
for your time :)

Daniel Bickett


From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Tue Oct  5 04:57:03 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 08:57:03 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4320.1096957671.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <slrncm4oev.d4t.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:43:27 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:

[snip]

>> 
>> Because Python is...well...more Pythonic.  I much prefer it (esp. 
>> whitespace).
>
> I suspect that with the same tricks used in 'lingua latina perligata'
> you could make Perl use whitespace like Python, while keeping deeper
> semantic aspects, such as the ability to add integers and strings, which
> you appear to keenly desire.

In fact the same author did so many moons ago:

http://
groups.google.com/groups?selm=7g6gi5%24eb4%241%40towncrier.cc.monash.edu.au

It's nothing like what python actually uses syntax wise, but it's the idea
that counts right...

-- 
Sam Holden


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 11:46:29 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:46:29 -0700
Subject: failed delivery messages
Message-ID: <1097682390.12092.183.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

                              From: 
zonk at azet.sk
                                To: 
Cliff Wells
<clifford.wells at comcast.net>
                           Subject: 
Sprava nebola dorucena (Message was
not delivered)
                              Date: 
13 Oct 2004 15:26:00 -0000  (08:26
PDT)

Okay, I hate to bitch, but is there any possibility of canceling this
subscription?  I'm tired of getting a failed delivery message from this
guy every time I post to the list.

Sigh.  Perhaps I'm just grumpy from lack of sleep (and Unicode).  Or
maybe it's time to start mangling my email address like others do.

:P


-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de  Fri Oct  1 09:06:25 2004
From: wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:06:25 +0200
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<du71xgjpsay.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <z5nr98uuk2l4.ul5xbcv4hq6x.dlg@40tude.net>

Hello,

> Such things don't necessarily float into open source.

Well, Python is pretty common in the university world, so I had thought
that quite a few people have already done lots of things with it and maybe
with a little bit of luck published one or the other basic module...

There seem to be some Python bits out there, for example MatPLC and
Lintouch use Python and some commercial products as well (PyDACHS), but
unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a more or less consistent library
for industrial automation or a coordinated effort to build up one.

> OPC is just DCOM,

Well, if it is sooo easy, why has noone done a freeware twisted OPC module
yet...? >;->

To start with I "just" need to "emulate" an OPC server to play around a
little bit with a SCADA package, so everything more than importing a module
and instantiating an OPC server class with a few lines is a little bit over
my head...

(Could it be that I'm a little bit pampered by the vast Python module
collection available for other domains than industrial automation...? >:->)

> which should work directly w/ Python+pywin32 extensions

I have the PythonWin IDE here at work.

Best regards,

Wolfgang Keller


From roy at panix.com  Sun Oct 31 16:46:42 2004
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:46:42 -0500
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<slrncoa6j7.sl4.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <roy-851F06.16464231102004@reader1.panix.com>

Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> wrote:
> Perl5 seemed a reasonable way to cludge on some OO stuff etc without 
> completely redoing the language.

I would hardly call perl's OO stuff "reasonable".  A cludge, for sure.  
But I think reasonable would be stretching it.  Anyway, the {}-> syntax 
looks more like a smiley face to me than a programming language 
construct.


From renx99 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 30 12:04:08 2004
From: renx99 at gmail.com (Rene)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:04:08 GMT
Subject: Cookie not reading first time though...
Message-ID: <MPG.1bed8585ad622043989680@news.verizon.net>

I'm trying to learn how to use python for cgi scripts...

I created a form that submits some info that I put in a cookie.  Then 
the script calls itself and reads the cookie, and displays a different 
form to get more information.

The problem I'm running into is the script is setting the cookie... but 
it doesn't read it the first time through for some reason, if I 
immediately try it again it works fine.  So for some reason it's not 
picking up the cookie the first time. 

Would it be a better idea to break the script into two different scripts 
to accomplish this?

Any advise would be appreciated, please be gentle, I'm still a newbie 
;-)

here is the script:

#!/usr/bin/python

import cgi,os,Cookie
import cgitb; cgitb.enable()

def name_race():
    print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
    print "<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC \"-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN\" 
\"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd\">"
    print "<html>"
    print "<body>"
    print "<form method = post ACTION =\"test.py\"> "
    print "<table><tr>"
    print "<td><b>Name:</b></td><td><input type=text name=\"name\"></td>
</tr>"
    print "</table>"
    print "<p>"
    print "<table>"
    print "<tr>"
    print "<td><b>Race:</b></td></tr>"
    print "<tr>"
    print "<td>Human</td><td><input type=radio name=\"race\" value=\"1
\"></td></tr>"
    print "<tr>"
    print "<td>Elf</td><td><input type=radio name=\"race\" value=\"2\">
</td></tr>"
    print "</table>"
    print "<p>"
    print "<input type = hidden name=\"action\" value=\"getclass\">"
    print "<input type = submit value =\"Enter\">"
    

def pick_class():
    mycookie = Cookie.SmartCookie(os.environ.get("HTTP_COOKIE", ""))
    race = mycookie["race"].value
    name = mycookie["name"].value
    print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
    print "<html>"
    print "<body>"
    print name
    print race
    print "</body>\n</html>"
		 
						

def print_sheet():
    pass

    
def main():
    form = cgi.FieldStorage()
    mycookie = Cookie.SmartCookie()	
    if form.has_key("name") and form.has_key("race"):
        if (form["action"].value == "getclass"):
	    mycookie["name"] = form["name"].value
	    mycookie["name"]["max-age"] = 60
	    mycookie["race"] = form["race"].value
	    mycookie["race"]["max-age"] = 60
	    print mycookie
	    
            pick_class()	    
    else: name_race()

main()    


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Sun Oct 24 19:16:14 2004
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:16:14 -0700
Subject: Mindboggling Scope Issue
In-Reply-To: <clha6h$s7d$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <200410241346.12230.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>
	<clha6h$s7d$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200410241616.14515.jstroud@mbi.ucla.edu>

Hello All,

Please bare with me as I have seldom asked for help with my code, so I may do 
things a little wrong at times. If I ask in the wrong way, please by friendly 
like Tarry Reedy and suggest how I may better ask my questions.

So I will retry this one from the top, and with Tarry's suggestions 
incorporated. 

First I'll begin with a simple example that works from the python CLI:

% python
Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40)
[GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def outer():
... ? def inner():
... ? ? print bob
... ? bob = "wuzzup?"
... ? inner()
...
>>> outer()
wuzzup?

This is an experiment to prove that a function can "de-reference" a name even 
if the function is defined in a position of the code that preceeds said 
name's assignment in the enclosing scope. (Hopefully my vocabulary makes 
sense here--I am not a computer scientist). Please look at the code to see 
what I mean. Here, we are talking about the name "bob".

Second I present below two alternatives (designated "method1" and "method2" in 
the comments of the listings below) to a method that resides in a program I 
am writing. I run the program with the same python executable with which I 
generated the above example. These method listings are long but differ only 
where I have indicated in the comments. I am including them in their entirety 
so that I don't leave something critical out that I, as a relative novice, am 
missing.

With "method1" I get no error and the "ok()" method works as I expect and in 
accord with the example above. With "method2" I call "ok()", and when it 
prints to stdout I get the following error (after compile, when the program 
is being run):

Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1345, in __call__
    return self.func(*args)
  File "./passerby", line 1378, in ok
    print result
UnboundLocalError: local variable 'result' referenced before assignment

So my question is, what is special about what I am doing here? Why does it not 
work like the first example I gave with the name bob? Have I found a bug in 
python? I should note that "passWindow" is not defined anywhere else but this 
method. Also, I should note that "method1" represents a 
workaround/alternative, so my program runs just fine. I just want to know 
what is going on here to imporve my own understanding. I think if anyone can 
give me a satisfactory answer on this one, we should all call them a "real 
expert".

Here are the listings I referred to above:

-----

    # method1 : works!
    def ask_for_password(self, message):
      def cancel():
        passWindow.destroy()
      def ok():
        # different : WORKS FINE!
        print passWindow.result
        pw = passEntry.get()
        if len(pw):
          # different
          passWindow.result = pw
        passWindow.destroy()
      message = "\n" + message + "\n"
      passWindow = Toplevel(self.get_mainWindow())
      # different : notice that passWindow is defined for the
      #                 first time in this whole program in the line above
      #                 It is not part of a larger scope!
      passWindow.result = None
      passWindow.title("passerby - Password Entry")
      self.get_mainWindow().deiconify()
      passWindow.transient(self.get_mainWindow())
      passWindow.geometry("400x180+50+50")
      passWindow.resizable(0,0)
      passLabel = Label(passWindow, text=message)
      passEntry = Entry(passWindow)
      passEntry.configure(width=48)
      passEntry.config(show="*")
      passEntry.bind("<Return>",ok)
      cancelButton = Button(passWindow, text="Cancel", command=cancel)
      okButton = Button(passWindow, text="OK", command=ok)
      passLabel.pack()
      passEntry.pack()
      cancelButton.pack()
      okButton.pack()
      passEntry.focus_set()
      passWindow.grab_set()
      self.get_tk().wait_window(passWindow)
      # different
      return passWindow.result

-----

    # method2 : doesn't work!
    def ask_for_password(self, message):
      def cancel():
        passWindow.destroy()
      def ok():
        # different : GETS ERROR!
        print result
        pw = passEntry.get()
        if len(pw):
          passWindow.result = pw
        passWindow.destroy()
      message = "\n" + message + "\n"
      passWindow = Toplevel(self.get_mainWindow())
      # different : notice that passWindow is defined for the
      #                 first time in this whole program in the line above
      #                 It is not part of a larger scope!
      result = None
      passWindow.title("passerby - Password Entry")
      self.get_mainWindow().deiconify()
      passWindow.transient(self.get_mainWindow())
      passWindow.geometry("400x180+50+50")
      passWindow.resizable(0,0)
      passLabel = Label(passWindow, text=message)
      passEntry = Entry(passWindow)
      passEntry.configure(width=48)
      passEntry.config(show="*")
      passEntry.bind("<Return>",ok)
      cancelButton = Button(passWindow, text="Cancel", command=cancel)
      okButton = Button(passWindow, text="OK", command=ok)
      passLabel.pack()
      passEntry.pack()
      cancelButton.pack()
      okButton.pack()
      passEntry.focus_set()
      passWindow.grab_set()
      self.get_tk().wait_window(passWindow)
      # different
      return result



-- 
James Stroud, Ph.D.
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
611 Charles E. Young Dr. S.
MBI 205, UCLA 951570
Los Angeles CA 90095-1570
http://www.jamesstroud.com/


From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 17:16:21 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 14:16:21 -0700
Subject: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow
	after an exception is raised)
References: <4b39d922.0410011152.31fb1dae@posting.google.com>
	<4edc17eb.0410011905.72494b5d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0410021316.4e02b0d1@posting.google.com>

michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<4edc17eb.0410011905.72494b5d at posting.google.com>... 
> 
> Well, actually that is NOT what I asked. Erik Max Francis got my point:
> 

Indeed!  I seem to have completely misinterpreted your post!  

At least it.. raised.. some interesting conjecture about exceptions.  
I wonder if yield could be abused to simulate resumable exceptions
under certain situations?

class ResumableException(Exception): pass

def foo():
  if something_has_gone_wrong():
     yield ResumableException
     print "Resumed!"
  

result = foo()
if result is ResumableException:
  if recovery_is_possible():
    foo()   
  else:
    raise result

Far from ideal, but it is a way of suspending and then resuming
execution.  It does have the unfortunate caveat that the caller needs
to be aware of what's coming, which sort of defeats the point of
exceptions.  A kind of homage to the things people do in languages
that lack exception-handling mechanisms...


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Oct 12 17:14:50 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:14:50 -0700
Subject: proposition for syntax for initialisation of
	multidimensionallists
References: <mailman.4775.1097615531.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416C494A.AA7CBE37@alcyone.com>

"Batista, Facundo" wrote:

> You don't need list comprehensions::
> 
> >>> [[[0] * 4] * 3] * 2
> [[[0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0]], [[0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0,
> 0],
> [0, 0, 0, 0]]]

Yes, you do:

>>> a = [[0] * 3] * 2
>>> a[1][2] = 100
>>> a
[[0, 0, 100], [0, 0, 100]]

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ I never think of the future. It comes soon enough.
    -- Albert Einstein


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Tue Oct 12 12:54:39 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:54:39 +0100
Subject: help with excel
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4758.1097595190.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <01a801c4b06c$141ba890$0564a8c0@corp.NetworkOperator.com>	<416BF3C3.9090201@cenix-bioscience.com>
	<mailman.4758.1097595190.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckh28l$skl$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Clayton Hablinski wrote:
> Trying to acheive automation as well. The cells change month to month and I
> have several different sheets.

Excel *is* automated. You change the data cells, and the formula cells 
automatically update. I suggest you forget about Python (*gasp*) for 
this application and read an Excel tutorial instead.

Also, please don't top-post here. :)

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?
-- Aahz
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From svdematos at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 04:32:58 2004
From: svdematos at hotmail.com (sibisco)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 04:32:58 -0400
Subject: Installation problem in AIX
References: <mailman.3441.1095413314.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <647a1595b5c92c924a59a9ef10f14380@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>

hello!
It seems I have the same problem than you but for a different
installation. Indeed, I try to install a cross compiler for 5.1 AIX. When
I compile gcc (withthe command make) I have this error : 
collect2: /lib/libld.a: not a COFF file
make: 1254-004 The error code from the last command is 1.
I don't understand what it means.
Could you help me ?
Thanks.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 15:28:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:28:44 +0200
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <1gl97cx.69p760iugqaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:
   ...
> precedent for !cmd meaning 'escape to shell' in several environments (gnuplot,
> matlab), and for foo? as 'info about foo' (Mathematica), I hope I'd have a
> stronger case of opposing these changes if they ever came to Guido.  

What about a compromise: allow ! and ? only as the LAST (and NOT only)
character of an identifier.  This leaves you the !cmd as escape to
shell, and you only need to ask users to leave a space before the
question mark (as in 'x ?') when they're questing for info about x (or
you could switch to ?x -- whatever...).

> But if something like this (!?) were to be seriously considered, I would most
> definitely try to oppose it.  Granted, my opinion is just one amongst many.
> But the fact that ipython is proving to be a growingly popular tool for
> interactive work in multiple contexts, and that this popularity is in no small
> part due precisely to the utility of features like !cmd and foo?, would
> hopefully give my humble opinion the weight of a larger community.

I love iPython, but the (hypothetical) moment iPython or any other tool
starts holding back the development of the _language_ is the moment I
turn into a deadly enemy of the tool in question, _whatever_ it may be.
We have enough tails-wagging-dogs in the real world, we don't need more
of that in the fairytale world of the Snake...!-)

> That, and the fact that in _my_ opinion, names-with-embedded-punctuation look
> ugly :)

Embedded, yes, trailing, no -- that's the compromise I'm proposing... no
'foo!bar' or 'fee?fie' identifier, just _trailing_ bangs and qmarks...


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 02:54:32 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:54:32 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl6dqy.17aec2n1uecu0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> Had you read the tutorial, you would discover the answers to all of
> these questions, but I'll answer them anyways.

I don't think the tutorial answers all these questions, by a long shot;
this looks to me like a school assignment intended to force a student to
spend at least 2-3 days looking for the many answers (it also looks like
the questions are generic, using terminology that's not appropriate to a
specific language, Python in particular -- this reinforces the
impression that this is a school assignment, rather than specific
interest in Python in particular on Mr Blackwood's part).

Fortunately, Josiah, some of your answers are in good part debatable,
arguable, or imprecise enough that, if Mr Blackwood simply copies all of
them, while he will (arguably undeservedly... unless getting somebody
else to do your homework is a skill deserving recognition, today...;-)
get a passing grade, it should not be a _good_ grade, at least.  If he
cares about his GPA he'll still have to do research to check up each of
the answers you have supplied!-)

> Next time, read the damn documentation.

Why should he, if he can shirk the work and find others willing to do it
on his behalf?-)


Alex


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Mon Oct 11 14:18:34 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:18:34 GMT
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4713.1097513928.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4713.1097513928.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416ACE77.8040508@remove-yahoo.it>

Steven Bethard ha scritto:


> While I totally agree with the Ewww here, I think the point was to have full-
> fledged anonymous functions, instead of lambdas, which are restricted to a 
> single expression.  Of course, the syntax chosen for this is (to some degree, 
> at least) arbitrary, but the idea would be to allow things like:
> 
> func(arg1, lambda arg2:
>                self.update(arg2)
>                return arg2*2)
> 
> My understanding is that no one's ever found an anonymous def syntax that 
> everyone really likes, so I suspect the argument will continue to be "too ugly 
> for too little gain in coding ease".  

join the forces of those who asks blocks :)
I'd like
  do a,b:
	indentblock



From gbofspam at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 21:08:13 2004
From: gbofspam at gmail.com (gibber)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 18:08:13 -0700
Subject: I'm a fool, where's the documentation
Message-ID: <6c3f5e6c.0410261708.337e8d19@posting.google.com>

Ok, so I'm new to Python, so I'm clearly missing something, but where
is the documentation?  For example, take xml.dom.pulldown.  I've found
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-xml.dom.pulldom.html and
its sister http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/domeventstream-objects.html,
but is that really it?  help(xml.dom.pulldom) and dir(xml.dom.pulldom)
aren't too forthcoming either.  Sure they list the classes and
methods, but what use is a method if you don't know the return type,
if indeed there is one.  Example uses will go a long way to preserving
my hair too.

Somebody please enlighten me, Its not just pulldom, I get problems
with most libraries, so it has to be me that's STFW but managed to
miss the bits I need.  Please, put this idiot out of his misery.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 16:40:07 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:40:07 +0200
Subject: bz2 module
References: <cl18e4$ma5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <1glvijt.ji2vka1o473smN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Brad Tilley <bradtilley at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm having a bit of trouble using the bz2 module. The documentation for
> it is very poor. Here's what I'm trying to do:
> 
> import bz2
> 
> x = file('test.bkf', 'rb')
> 
> while True:
>          data = x.read(1024000)
>          if not data:
>                  break
>          bz2.BZ2File('test.bkf.copy', 'w').write(data)
> 
> x.close()
> 
> It fails with this error:
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'BZ2File'

Looks like your Python is misinstalled, or something...:

>>> import bz2
>>> bz2.BZ2File
<type 'bz2.BZ2File'>
>>> 

> Can anyone give me an example of how to use bz2 to compress files. Why

import bz2
source = open('test.bkf', 'rb')
destination = bz2.BZ2File('test.bkf.bz2', 'w')

while True:
    data = source.read(1024000)
    if not data: break
    destination.write(data)

destination.close()
source.close()

> don't the docs give examples of this?!?

If the docs were perfect, who'd ever buy Python in a Nutshell, or the
Python Cookbook?  So I sneak in at night in the CVS repository and
secretly sabotage them just enough, destroying, without leaving a trace,
all the wonderful doc patches that people are submitting all the time,
fixing problems rather than whining about them...


Alex


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Oct 18 15:27:53 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:27:53 -0700
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it> <m3pt3gca1b.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<uQScd.273$%h1.11@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <donn-EA6B7A.12275318102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <uQScd.273$%h1.11 at newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
 Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Jorge Godoy wrote:
> > IIRC, by reference.  It uses a copy on write algorithm. 
> 
> Really?  Where?  I've heard theoretical rumblings about
> that but didn't realized it had been added anywhere.

I think this is a misimpression - the copy on write
part, I mean - that may go back to a discussion that
took place a year ago here, where someone energetically
but erroneously advocated that point of view.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Oct 31 09:54:18 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:54:18 -0500
Subject: names of parameters as string
In-Reply-To: <cm0s05$j6d$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com><41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com><3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com><m31xfh8uhy.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu><mailman.5663.1099065452.5135.python-list@python.org><291020042102228624%JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom@no.spam.net>
	<1CC54D90-2A40-11D9-A5B8-0003939C968C@unito.it>
	<mailman.5706.1099127497.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clvt7v$qnb$02$1@news.t-online.com> <U7Sgd.558$931.555@lakeread01>
	<cm0s05$j6d$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <H57hd.2122$931.222@lakeread01>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> 
>>[No] guarantees to work on any specific implementation.
> 
> 
> What do you mean - the locals() analogue to 
> 
> globals()[name] = value  
> 
> or my exec workaround?
> 
> def somefunc():
>     value = as_you_like_it
>     exec "%s = value" % name
> 
> inquisitively, far from Spain
> Peter
> 
The locals() analog.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Oct 14 05:28:34 2004
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 02:28:34 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>	<278de0e.0410131104.2109521e@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4899.1097694762.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5339b60d.0410140128.28897913@posting.google.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.4899.1097694762.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> Um, despite my criticism of Istvan for jumping on an innocent
> announcement, he does have a point (even if he presented it a bit
> harshly): this is a Python list, not a Boo list.  A lot of people here
> may or may not be interested in Boo, just as they are with Ruby,
> Haskell, Lisp, et al, but that doesn't make it an appropriate place to
> seek technical support on any of those things.  They have, or can start,
> their own groups.

Indeed that could have been the reason for the skepticism/hostility.
For a good while, comp.lang.python was stuffed full of commentary and
discussion about a language which now seems to be "off the twig",
although I imagine that Prothon could well be an interesting starting
point for experimentation with free threading and other Python 3000
proposals/wishes/desires.

Paul


From listserver at tdw.net  Sat Oct  9 13:39:18 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:39:18 +0100
Subject: very small python smtpish send
References: <ck7mdn$n2i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0410090911370.1785@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <017101c4ae26$e79ccde0$ccbefea9@twilliams>


> On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Brad Tilley wrote:
>
>Anyone know of a small Python script that acts as a slimmed down smtp
>server (just sends from the local machine)? I currently use a smtp
>server for sending email reports from machines, but as machines travel
>outside of our lan, the smtp server refuses to relay their messages.

OK,  so the clients are sending email to addresses that are not local to
your lan's server (otherwise there would be no relaying attempt)

Have you considered turning on authentication on the lan server,  you can
then allow relaying only from an authenticated "client".

>I thought it would be better if each machine had its own little mail
>sender this way, it could continue reporting no matter where it was
located.

Sending directly from the client to the recipient address's server  is
valid, doesn't need authentication, and relatively simple to do  using
smtplib.py .  However,  nowadays this may be problematic because of
increasing anti-spam measures that *might* cause the email to be refused on
a variety of criteria (IP address (RBL) ,  IP address reverse lookup,
possibly SPF, etc etc ).

import smtplib
try:
    s = smtplib.SMTP(outgoing-server)
    failed = s.sendmail(out_from, to_list , msg)
except smtplib.SMTPRecipientsRefused, x :
    do something  # for recip in x.recipients:  info = x.recipients[recip]
except smtplib.SMTPDataError, x:
    do something  # x[0], x[1]
except smtplib.SMTPSenderRefused, x :
    do something  # x.sender, x.smtp_code, x.smtp_error
except:
    do something

(failed contains a list of failed recipients if *some* but not all failed,
if all failed then use
except smtplib.SMTPRecipientsRefused, x :)

Alternatively there are some free mail SPs out there that provide
authenticated outgoing servers that  you could use if  you can't turn on
authentication on your lan server.




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Oct 11 10:37:24 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:37:24 -0400
Subject: 2D height map to 3D model?
In-Reply-To: <c3hkm0t2qssg3nph4nomchd3due6hj2jqb@4ax.com>
References: <skfgm0pev6ld2p6k7n2e9q1tt442kselh9@4ax.com>
	<c3hkm0t2qssg3nph4nomchd3due6hj2jqb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <416A9AA4.3050805@rogers.com>

Didn't see the original question, but going from the subject, you want 
to generate a 3D mesh from a height field (such as seen in an image).  
The algorithm for doing that is fairly straightforward:

rectangles = []
for m in range(dim1-1):
    for n in range(dim2-1):
       vertices = []
       vertices.append( (m,n,heights[m,n]))
       vertices.append( (m+1,n,heights[m+1,n]))
       vertices.append( (m+1,n+1,heights[m+1,n+1]))
       vertices.append( (m,n+1,heights[m,n+1]))
       rectangles.append( vertices )

However, that dramatically increases the size of your geometry in memory 
(you're storing 12 doubles for almost every data-point).  It's easier to 
use a format where you define vertices and a separate topology (via 
indices into the vertices).  Same basic approach works there, you just 
have to add m+(n*dim1) to get the index for a corner of the quad.  There 
you're storing only 3 doubles for each vertex.

If you have a format that allows for triangle/quadrilateral strips, you 
can make the rendering far more efficient using them. There you render 
(m,n), (m+1,n), (m+1,n+1), (m,n+1), (m+1,n+2), (m,n+2), (m+1,n+3),...  
That reduces the size of your index-set as well, but most of the speedup 
is going to come from having fewer primitive operations.

Good luck,
Mike

PhilC wrote:

>Thanks Richard,
>
>I was actually thinking of faces but an aerial photograph would be
>similar. I'll check through those links and see if they help.
>
>Again my appreciation for your reply.
>
>PhilC
>
>  
>

-- 
________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Sun Oct 31 01:07:31 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 23:07:31 -0600
Subject: Python and MySQL 4.1
References: <mailman.5723.1099194205.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41847313$1_2@omega.dimensional.com>

"webdsine" <webdsine at yahoo.ca> writes:

> Hello.  I just upgrade to MySQL 4.1 from 4.0, and I'm having trouble
> retrieving text from the DB in the proper format using the MySQLdb
> module in Python.  All text fields that are retrieved are in this
> format:
>
> array('c', 'Whatever is in the field')

> The only data that's not displayed in that format are enum values, and
> when I was still in v4.0 only 'Whatever is in the field' is
> retrieved.  

Could you post an example that demonstrates the problem?  It would
be helpful to see the CREATE TABLE and INSERT statements that show
what the data looks like, the Python code that shows how you're
retrieving the data, the program's output with MySQL 4.0, and the
program's output with MySQL 4.1.

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 26 16:03:05 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:03:05 -0700
Subject: Python Sockets Question
In-Reply-To: <10nt00un4qj6q4d@corp.supernews.com>
References: <10nt00un4qj6q4d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20041026130112.0B50.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> Hi I am building a simple chat program but I am running into problems 
> interacting with more than one client I can send a message to a server 
> and it can recieve it no problem but how do I get more than one client 
> to see the messages as well so clients can talk to eachother basically 
> how do I get the server to send the messages back so all the clients can 
> see it

Don't use UDP, use TCP.  TCP connections are persistant, so you can send
information to all of your clients as necessary.

This will change your application, as it requires you to both read and
write from sockets.  Check out the asyncore module, or perhaps even
asynchat (which is 95% of a chat server already).

 - Josiah



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct  2 22:31:02 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 22:31:02 -0400
Subject: idiom for debug code? [1/1]
In-Reply-To: <0DoHajVjBwXBFwhr@hiredatum.demon.co.uk>
References: <y6SdnUz8sr673sHcRVn-gA@rogers.com>
	<wfmdnXvIef4v1cHcRVn-vQ@comcast.com>
	<6tadnfHqDdcg9cHcRVn-hQ@rogers.com>
	<0DoHajVjBwXBFwhr@hiredatum.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <HzJ7d.288401$4o.8905@fed1read01>

Ian Parker wrote:

[...]
> I have a utility.py module which contains my common functions and I
> import this in every module, plus a wrapper for the debug function:
> 
> import utility
> 
> debug = 0
> 
> def dprint( *args):
>     """
>         print function toggled on or off by module debug variable
>     """
>     global debug
>     if debug:
>         apply(utility._dprint,args)
> 
> 
> This allows me to scatter dprint functions throughout the module instead
> of print statements, and enable or suppress them by setting the global
> 'debug', e.g.
> 
>     def func(x):
>         global total
>         total += x
>         dprint("total is currently",total)
> 
> to get an output of something like:
>     ! module.py:83 in func: total is currently 10
> 

Well, I don't do anything as sophisticated as dprint on the output side, 
and might consider lifting it. But in terms of selecting which debug 
code gets executed I often use something like

	if 3 in debug:

because this makes it easy to selectively turn different bits of debug 
code on or off. Of course the test takes a little longer, but when not 
debugging it doesn't take long to check whether an integer is in an 
empty list.

regards
  Steve


From nospam at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  8 05:39:22 2004
From: nospam at hotmail.com (Dfenestr8)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 18:39:22 +0900
Subject: Determining whether it's a file or a directory?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.08.09.39.09.841069@hotmail.com>

os.listdir("path") returns the names of all the items in a directory ok,
but I need to know whether the item is a file or a directory.

Can anybody tell me how this could be done?


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  1 08:34:50 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:34:50 -0400
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
In-Reply-To: <9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
References: <4e4a11f8.0409232355.6ba0468d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.3834.1096015522.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Jdc7d.280819$4o.95007@fed1read01>

Andrea Griffini wrote:

> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:32:31 +0100, Michael Hoffman
> <m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>[Andrea Griffini]
>>
>>>[Greg Ewing]
>>>
>>>>[Alex Martelli]
>>>>
>>>>>I think it's in fact very nice syntax:
>>>>
>>>>This is a hack. Don't do it.
>>>
>>>Who are you to question what Him, the Great Alex, says about it ?
>>
>>Who are you to question what Greg Ewing says?
> 
> 
> Are we going to go around in circles forever asking
> each other "who are you to say this" ?
> 
Apparently.
> 
>>I'm having trouble figuring out whether the rest of this message is 
>>supposed to be ironic or sarcastic or something. I can say with 
>>certainty that it is pretty silly.
> 
> 
> It's a 7am posting, so please be forgiving at least
> for that reason.
> 
> I didn't reply to Alex message because it's clear that he has
> a very personal problem with me (and ... no, I've no idea why).

It's clear to you, possibly.

> My decision so was to stop feeding his hate and I ignored him;

Hate? This doesn't sound like the Alex I know (and I'm talking about 
through the face meetings here, not just net acquaintanceship) This guy 
was the technical editor for my book, and I know him to be not only 
technically brilliant but also an affable and congenial person).

> that one is a problem he has with me and not the other way
> around... may be he can try to find a solution inside himself
> or talking to a good psychotherapist... I don't think I can
> be of any help about it.
> 
Well, clearly not with an attitude like that. Frankly that's about as 
insulting as you should be getting around here. In fact I think you've 
gone too far. I preferred the sarcasm.

> What kind of surprised me is however that no one else contested
> the nonsenses and/or irrelevant facts in his message. So I came
> to the conclusion that here we're leaving the land of logic.
> 
Perhaps anyone who has opinions that vary from yours has a problem 
requiring psychotherapeutic help? I'm beginning to sense that I too am a 
little unbalanced.

> I saw just one message saying what I (as a newbie to python)
> think is obvious to at least anyone with a reasonable brain
> and cold enough to think without prejudice; i.e. that defining
> 
>     def foo(x, cache=[])
> 
> when you've no intention to receive that parameter is a purely,
> simply, uncontestably, stinking, ugly hack (also IMO adding
> underscores to that "cache" name is not making this hack really
> any prettier).
> 
Well, of course, as a newbie to Python you are clearly in a far better 
position than anyone else to say what's reasonable. This couldn't 
possibly be a sensible use of name scoping rules to avoid the necessity 
for a static declaration, could it? Dammit, you know what a function is, 
and if it has parameters then we should damned well use them in the calls.

Right.

> And, in case you're really interested, I'm just a programmer
> with an apparently tweaked sense of humor that approached
> python very recently (that's why I don't consider myself part
> of the python "world", yet).
> 
> Andrea
> 
Well I don't often say this, but I think we have to get the attitude 
adjusters out here. Just sit in this chair, please, you'll just feel a 
little prick with a needle [this is a lie: I don't really have a 
needle]. There, that should feel better. Take three of the purple 
tablets a day, and come back when you are able to indulge in a 
difference of opinion without suggesting that those of a different view 
require therapy.

I don't suppose it's come to your attention that Alex is the author of 
"Python in a Nutshell" and co-author of "The Python Cookbook", and 
therefore rather well qualified to pontificate on the vagaries of Python 
usage? I suspect the only offense he is actually guilty of is treating 
you as better-informed than you actually are.

regards
  Steve



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 11:11:52 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:11:52 +0200
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrncmcf1i.dku.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glc06l.1s6wzdn11sa54yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrncmd4e2.hi8.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <1glcky1.otffuu1gns8jN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> wrote:
   ...
> > > But who's counting ;-)
> > 
> >  Nobody, I sure hope.  's=[]' is just four characters, while 'sentinel =
   ...
> My toungue was firmly in cheek as I wrote that as I hope the smiley
> above indicated!  I timed the two usages just to see (and because
> timeit makes it so easy).  Indeed what is 6 characters and 300 nS
> between friends ;-)

Yep, I don't think there was any doubt -- I just dotted some t's and
crossed some i's (...hmmm...?-) for the benefit of hypothetical newbie
readers...;-)


Alex


From franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at  Fri Oct  8 15:46:36 2004
From: franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at (Franz Steinhäusler)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 21:46:36 +0200
Subject: Country specific date format
References: <vrrcm0dn0f9pom05a1tefjcr4hpgdcg7o0@4ax.com>
	<ck5tk3$jfn$02$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <shrdm0lb4clgb4qe2ao1847s2jvm6pkl0b@4ax.com>

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:28:04 +0200, "Diez B. Roggisch"
<deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:

>Franz Steinhaeusler wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> 
>> with following function, i get a human readable date/time format.
>> 
>> mtime = time.strftime(self.timeformat ,time.localtime(st.st_mtime))
>> 
>> However is there a simple solution to get a country specific format:
>> for example
>> 10/08/2004
>> 
>> and for German:
>> 08.10.2004
>> 
>> I looked in locale class, but I didn't get more wise.
>
>You didn't look properly:

Hi Diez,

you are right :)

>
>>>> locale.nl_langinfo(locale.D_FMT)
>'%m/%d/%y'
>>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'de_DE')
>>>> locale.nl_langinfo(locale.D_FMT)
>'%d.%m.%Y'

thanks for answering, I have windows XP,
and it seems, this method doesn't exist:

import locale
locale.nl_langinfo(locale.D_FMT)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'nl_langinfo'
WinXP, Python 2.3.3

from the doc:
nl_langinfo( option) 

Return some locale-specific information as a string. This function is
not available on all systems, and the set of possible options might
also vary across platforms. The possible argument values are numbers,
for which symbolic constants are available in the locale module. 

is there any possibility ( please WITHOUT the win32 extensions and
other extra package except for wxPython ;) )
to discover the date/time country specific string?

regards

-- 

Franz Steinhaeusler
DrPython: http://drpython.sourceforge.net/
Project Page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/drpython/


From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Sun Oct 31 07:49:02 2004
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 31 Oct 2004 04:49:02 -0800
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0410310449.1672f89d@posting.google.com>

Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote in message news:<2uh4j7F2a86uqU1 at uni-berlin.de>...
> Hello,
> 
> another Perl/Python question: the subject says it all.
> 
> Perl is going to change dramatically to become a more powerful and
> easier to (read|write) language.
> 
> Is Python taking a similar step (-> Python 3) some time in the near future?

When Perl 6 arrives, Python's answer to it will be so profound and so
amazing that it will utterly meet and defeat the challenge; it will
put all pitiful hopes of Perl 6 to rest; it will expose Perl for the
fraud that it is.

What will this answer be?

To do nothing.


-- 
CARL BANKS


From mfuhr at fuhr.org  Sat Oct 30 01:12:11 2004
From: mfuhr at fuhr.org (Michael Fuhr)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 23:12:11 -0600
Subject: DNS caching in python2.2
References: <mailman.5686.1099087646.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418322ab$1_4@omega.dimensional.com>

"Grimm, Garth" <garth.grimm at hp.com> writes:

> If I write a script that makes successive HTTP requests, using newly
> instantiated objects from urllib for each request, is there any reason
> to believe that the DNS resolution from the first call will be cached
> and used for the second call?

Cached where?  The DNS server you're querying probably caches the
results, but the resolver library the program uses might or might
not -- different systems behave differently.  You could use a packet
sniffer to find out how your system behaves.

-- 
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Oct  1 07:43:15 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 01 Oct 2004 13:43:15 +0200
Subject: C API eqivalent of object.__new__
References: <tyfis9uewct.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <tyfekkieka4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> How would one write object._new__(SomeType) in the C API ?

PyInstance_NewRaw(PyObject *class, [PyObject* dict])

seems to be the way to do this for classic classes. How would one do
it for new-style classes?

Also, how would one create a new-style class "dynamically" in the C
API? IOW, what's the new-style equivalent of PyClass_New? or, put
another way, how would you write

  type(name, (), dict)

in the C API ?


From briandorsey at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 03:46:11 2004
From: briandorsey at gmail.com (Brian Dorsey)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:46:11 -0700
Subject: REMINDER: NorthWest(USA) Python Sprint #2 - October 23,24
In-Reply-To: <20041004235357.GA18413@dorseys.org>
References: <20041004235357.GA18413@dorseys.org>
Message-ID: <66e877b704102000461c5b11ce@mail.gmail.com>

This is just a quick reminder that the NW python sprint is this weekend! 
See http://seapig.org/NorthwestPythonSprint  for all the details. 

Take care,
-Brian

PS - apologies to PORPIG and VANPYZ for this being the first
announcement, I wasn't able to get subscribed to either list a few
weeks ago. :(

===================================================
SeaPIG (the Seattle Python Interest Group) is excited to announce the

                           NORTHWEST PYTHON SPRINT #2
                              October 23-24, 2004
                           Bellevue, Washington, USA
                    http://seapig.org/NorthwestPythonSprint

The cost is FREE, thanks to our host Construx Software.  There will be a
large, comfortable room seating 50+ people at tables, wireless and wired
Internet access, and a projector for demonstrations.  We have the room
reserved for Saturday and Sunday, but feel free to drop in whenever you
can make it.

Kevin Altis will be giving a short intro to PythonCard
(http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/) and coaching a sprint.

>From his blog:
    I'll be giving a presentation on PythonCard Saturday morning as well
as helping people work on their own PythonCard projects, fix bugs, and
make additions to the framework and tools. Which projects we tackle will
depend on how many people show up and what interests them the most.
(http://altis.pycs.net/2004/09/30.html)

We have plenty of space, so feel free to sign up to coach other projects
or just bring your own and look for a partner.

What is a sprint?  A sprint is a group of people who gather for a day or
more to work on a common software project.  The members choose
individual tasks and usually work solo or in pairs in the same room,
then get together periodically to compare notes.  We'll follow the model
that has worked successfully at the past several Python conferences:
several groups working on different projects in the same room.  Past
sprints have done development work on the Python core, Twisted,
Docutils, Webware, Zope, Chandler, etc.  Most projects have a variety of
tasks that need to be done -- coding modules, designing test suites,
squashing bugs, writing user documentation and developer documentation,
brainstorming design strategies, planning promotional activities, etc --
so there's something for every skill level.  You'll need to bring a
laptop, or if you don't have one you can pair with somebody who does.

If you'd like to coach a sprint, sign up to attend,  propose a lightning
talk or demonstration, or just get more information, see our wiki page:

    http://seapig.org/NorthwestPythonSprint

or contact:

    seattle-python at lists.seapig.org
    or
    Brian Dorsey <brian at dorseys.org>, 206-619-6975
    Mike Orr <mso at oz.net>, 206-240-4250

Construx is located at 11820 Northup Way #E200, Bellevue WA 98005.  It's
eight miles from downtown Seattle; twenty from Sea-Tac Airport.
(http://seapig.org/ConstruxMeetingLocation)

Carpools and homestays are available if you contact us in advance.


From olepar at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 22:19:49 2004
From: olepar at gmail.com (Oleg Paraschenko)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 19:19:49 -0700
Subject: Multithreaded tkinter GUI application exception handling
References: <BFRad.23545$5O5.22396@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <1e015c2a.0410131819.55bf5881@posting.google.com>

Hello Michael,

Michael Zhang <jianqiz at bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<BFRad.23545$5O5.22396 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

> ...

> The problem is when I tried to close that display window (click on the 
> standard "X" button on the right-upper corner), I got this exception:

> ...

> 
> Could someone help me out about those thread stuff? Thanks!
> 

  I also had the same exception, but I can't remember what was the
reason. You can look at my working code, maybe it can help:

http://uucode.com/texts/pylongopgui/pyguiapp.html
A complete Python Tkinter application demonstrates one of the ways to
implement a good GUI wrapper for a long operation: with a progress
bar, log messages, cancelling.

--
Oleg


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 12:04:58 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:04:58 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1glv5uk.n5etko6o0g7xN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jonathan  Ellis <jbellis at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> > By reference to an object....See the python tutorial.
> 
> Wrong.  Here is the difference between pass by reference and pass by
> value to CS types:
> 
> >>> def foo(a): a = 1
> ...
> >>> i = 10
> >>> foo(i)
> >>> print i
> 
> With pass-by-reference, i would now be 1.  However, since python is
> pass-by-value, it remains 10.

...so you tell "CS types" it's pass-by-value, and they come right back
with

def bar(b): b.append(2)

z = []
bar(z)
print z

With pass-by-value, they'll say, z would still be [].  However, since
what is passed is not just (a copy of) the value, but (a reference to)
the object itself, z is [2] instead.

The terminology problem may be due to the fact that, in python, the
value of a name is a reference to an object.  So, you always pass the
value (no implicity copying), and that value is always a reference.

I find it simpler to explain as: the semantics of argument passing are
_exactly_ identical to that of assignment (binding) to a barename; you
can fruitfully see argument passing as local (bare) names of the called
function being assigned initial values by the caller (that's exactly
what happens, in practice).  Now if you want to coin a name for that,
such as "by object reference", "by uncopied value", or whatever, be my
guest.  Trying to reuse terminology that is more generally applied to
languages where "variables are boxes" to a language where "variables are
post-it tags" is, IMHO, more likely to confuse than to help.


Alex


From stygian at tesco.net  Thu Oct 28 16:12:29 2004
From: stygian at tesco.net (Glen)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:12:29 +0100
Subject: Newbie trying to install pygsear
In-Reply-To: <41813fa5$0$33073$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <mailman.5627.1098988652.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41813fa5$0$33073$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1098994349.4849.2.camel@localhost>

> > I'm quite new to both Python and Linux (Mandrake 10.0)
> > Python and pygame are both installed (examples run fine), but I get the
> > following error when trying to install pygsear
> >
> > [root at localhost pygsear-0.53]# python setup.py install
> > running install
> > error: invalid Python installation: unable to open
> > /usr/lib/python2.3/config/Makefile (No such file or directory)
> 
> You need to install the libpython2.3-devel package.
> 
> Log in as root, and run the command "urpmi libpython2.3-devl"
>   or
> Start rpmdrake and do the pointy/clicky thing.  

Thanks, 'pointy/clicky' worked great!
         



From rlwm.erens at home.nl  Wed Oct  6 18:03:27 2004
From: rlwm.erens at home.nl (Roger)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 15:03:27 -0700
Subject: Python Patterns
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4162ef68$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4409.1097042612.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl88is.1sxl7371uqtnyzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5475062c.0410061403.24b12ce6@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gl88is.1sxl7371uqtnyzN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> Dave Pawson <davep at dpawson.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 2004-10-05 at 22:56, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > 
> > > Yep -- I've been writing about DPs with/for Python for years now (that's
> > > the invariable background to almost all of my conference talks &c, check
> > > most of them out at www.strakt.com), and one day (once I'm done doing
> > > 2nd editions of cookbooks and nutshells;-) I hope to write a book about
> > > that 
> > 
> > Wouldn't it be nice if there was a wiki to collect them on Alex!
> 
> There's a great wiki on Patterns (indeed I think it was historically the
> first one -- the Portland Patterns Repository, I believe) and I'm sure
> they're not language bigots, so one could try going there.
> 
> Personally, I'm smack in the middle of editing/coordinating/writing a
> multi-authors book for the 2nd time -- indeed, the Python Cookbook is
> rather exceptional in the extent of its multi-authorness! -- and I'm not
> keen for a 3rd run... it's fascinating but also a mess.  Just imagine
> one contributor not answering mail (to send a proper intellectual
> property release when asked), or deciding he doesn't want to after all,
> holding up the whole project... *shudder*.  And, with a Wiki, authorship
> of each word, each sentence may be even harder to trace.
> 
> I think I'll do the book myself, or with one well-identified co-author,
> though of course I'll put up pieces in more discursive form to get
> feedback &c...
> 
> 
> Alex


Will the book also include an appendix on anti patterns?

Roger


From jbellis at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 19:49:29 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan  Ellis)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 16:49:29 -0700
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Andrea Griffini wrote:
> I did it.
>
> I proposed python as the main language for our next CAD/CAM
> software because I think that it has all the potential needed
> for it. I'm not sure yet if the decision will get through, but
> something I'll need in this case is some experience-based set
> of rules about how to use python in this context.
>
> For example... is defining readonly attributes in classes
> worth the hassle ? Does duck-typing scale well in complex
> software or should I go for a classic inheritance hierarchy ?
>
> In other words... is there something like the classic "Large
> Scale C++ Software Design" (Lakos) for python ? I'm not
> looking for a bible, but lessons learned from someone that
> already went down this path could be quite interesting.

Wouldn't it have been better to ask these questions BEFORE proposing
python as (presumably) a Great Solution?  IMO, as great as python is,
it isn't appropriate for projects that are large and include many
developers.

The benefits of static typing, not least among which is the vastly
superior ease of creating tools that "understand" the language,
outweigh python's advantages in an environment when many people are
writing a lot of code.  This can be mitigated by reducing the
connectedness of your code, e.g. with a plugin architecture, but that
isn't always an option either...

Good luck.

-Jonathan



From golux at comcast.net  Fri Oct  8 12:56:41 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 12:56:41 -0400
Subject: ANN: GUI wrapper for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0410081516190.4297-100000@zenon.ceid.upatras.gr>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0410081516190.4297-100000@zenon.ceid.upatras.gr>
Message-ID: <4166C6C9.7030501@comcast.net>

Stelios Xanthakis wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I'd like to announce the availability of a high-level GUI wrapper
> for pygtk, pyqt and wxpython.
> 
> Check out the screenshot at
> 
>    http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/twgui/
> 
> I wanted to write a *simple* app with a GUI that didn't look as horrible
> as Tk and without having to ask from the users to install this or that. 

And you were already aware of PythonCard?
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/

I'm not sure how good an assumption it is that the user will have
one of the pygtk, pyqt, or wxpython installed.

Steve


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Oct  1 02:06:47 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 02:06:47 -0400
Subject: Test html
In-Reply-To: <415cee92$0$948$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
References: <415bf448$0$21152$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<415cee92$0$948$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <415CF3F7.2070402@holdenweb.com>

Michel Claveau - abstraction m?ta-galactique non triviale en fuite 
perp?tuelle. wrote:

> Bonsoir !
> 
> J'ai l'impression que mon message pr?c?dent n'est pas pass? sur tous les
> serveurs.
> Avec usenet, on n'est jamais s?r...
> 
Vraiement, et particulierement quand le usenet newsgroup est pont? 
(!)[1] avec le mailing list.

pardon mon franglais

regards
  Steve

[1]: Que veut dire en Francais "verbing a noun"?


From hellas_74 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 15 12:35:16 2004
From: hellas_74 at hotmail.com (Hellas)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:35:16 +0200
Subject: operation with strings and numbers
Message-ID: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it>

Hello guy
I'm italian boy, I need help for doing a strange thing with numbers

I have a number from operation like this:
a = float("010.123")
b = float("001.124")
p= a*b
p="%06.3f" % p
the resulted is "_11,278" where "_" is a space
I must to change the formatting of this number in "011278" but I don't known 
what to do
Could you help me please?
thanks a lot 




From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 10:23:39 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 07:23:39 -0700
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
	<4165ad9a$0$44853$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410080623.32eb8ce9@posting.google.com>

[thanks but snip.. ;-) ]
> One alternative: (pseudocode)
> 
> Recieve request
> If no-cookie-received:
>    Set Cookie: "NEWUSER"
> else:
>    if cookie-recieved == "NEWUSER":
>       # We know they can send us cookies back
>       id = gen-id()
>       Set Cookie: id
> 

Yep.. this I understand and will try.
Thanks

> Then just log requests with the recieved cookie, trackable users will have
> a unique id, whether their IP changes, share a system, behind nat'ing
> firewalls etc. This allows you to track unique users that are trackable
> using cookies. If you have a particularly large number of users accessing
> your site you can tie in sampling (perhaps something like density biased
> sampling) in there as well something like this:
> 
> new-cookie = None
> If no-cookie-received:
>    new-cookie = "NEWUSER"
> else:
>    if cookie-recieved == "NEWUSER":
>       # We know they can send us cookies back
>       id = gen-id()
>       new-cookie = id
> 
> if add-to-sample-set(request):
>    tag = "SAMPLE"
>    new-cookie = current-cookie or new-cookie
> else:
>    tag = "NOSAMPLE"
> 
> if new-cookie:
>    Set Cookie: tag new-cookie
> 


Sorry... :-( don't get it.
What is add-to-sample-set(request) doing ? Is it simply choosing a
proportion of our users to sample ?

If this is only a 'do if you have too many users' kind-of-thing then
unfortunately it won't be a problem for me !!

> (Or something like that IYSWIM - ie get the user population to indicate if
> they're being sampled - again, this allows your users to easily opt out,

As above... I don't get it, so I don't see how it achieves this ?

> and also means the memory/etc required to determine whether to track the
> user or not isn't dependent on the number of requests your site gets -
> meaning that you can keep analysis costs for your site under control. If
> you've only got a small site this probably doesn't matter to you, but 
> worth bearing in mind).
> 
> The interesting thing about this from my perspective is that if you do 
> take a cookie approach like this, it actually allows you to figure out how
> much error there actually is between IP and cookie - rather than just guess.

One last question. You didn't explicitly say this, but I was thinking
of doing it anyway. Are you suggesting to store USERID *and* IP
address and compare the results of anylysing by IP and analysing by
cookie.... Sounds worthwhile...

Thanks for your help - very interesting.

Regards,

Fuzzy

> The other nicety is it allows your users to opt-out very easily - since they
> can either switch off cookies, or you can send them a "NOSAMPLE" cookie.
> 
> Also, at present comments in this thread revolve around "this isn't
> reliable because of x,y and z". If you take this sort of approach you
> can find out the margin of error and then decide whether you're happy
> with it or not. Also as you can see from above this doesn't really have
> to be a very complex operation (unless you're in a high volume scenario
> with lots of distinct users and need to add in the sampling aspect).
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> 
> Michael


From olli at haluter.fromme.com  Fri Oct 22 07:31:29 2004
From: olli at haluter.fromme.com (Oliver Fromme)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 11:31:29 GMT
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
 > Jeremy Bowers <jerf <at> jerf.org> writes:
 > > (This was one of the things that
 > > finally broke me of the strong typing inculcation I received in school;
 > > strong typing, considered as a scientific theory (something like "Large
 > > programs must be strongly typed, or they will cease working and
 > > maintenance will become impossible"), made claims about programs that
 > > proved to be wrong.
 > 
 > You probably meant "static typing" throughout this email when you said "strong 
 > typing".  Python *is* strongly typed -- you can tell the type of any object at 
 > runtime.  Python is not statically typed -- any name can be bound to any type 
 > of object, so nothing is checked at "compile time".

Type checking at compile time does _not_ necessarily require
static typing.

For a counter example, look at O'Caml.  It is a dynamically
typed functional language (using type inference, pattern
matchingetc.) with compile-time type checking.

If there was a programming language with Python-like syntax
and library, dynamically typed, and type-checked at compile-
time, I'd run over to it immediately.  :-)

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Konrad-Celtis-Str. 72, 81369 Munich, Germany

``All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream.''
(E. A. Poe)


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Oct 11 01:02:19 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:02:19 -0700
Subject: Function name inside function (was RE: End of file)
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F5B@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Andrew Durdin wrote:
> Another [sort-of related] question: why does the following not produce
> a NameError for "foo"?
> 
> def foo(): print foo
> foo()

At what point did you expect the NameError?

>>> def foo(): print foo
... 
>>> import dis
>>> dis.dis(foo)
  1           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (foo)
              3 PRINT_ITEM          
              4 PRINT_NEWLINE       
              5 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
              8 RETURN_VALUE        


The inner 'foo' isn't looked up until the function is called, at which
time, 'foo' is present in globals().


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From bgabriel at mtholyoke.edu  Wed Oct  6 20:59:24 2004
From: bgabriel at mtholyoke.edu (Bishara Gabriel)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:59:24 -0400
Subject: Social Analysis and Modeling for Python
In-Reply-To: <1097108792.1344.310.camel@emilio>
References: <415AD6A4.7000400@cloudthunder.com>	
	<1096493975.1238.45.camel@emilio>	
	<mailman.4108.1096499054.5135.python-list@python.org>	
	<a8623416.0410011046.5c2638cd@posting.google.com>	
	<mailman.4191.1096666380.5135.python-list@python.org>	
	<a8623416.0410061319.4032e273@posting.google.com>	
	<1097100334.1344.267.camel@emilio>
	<4164890A.9040207@cloudthunder.com>
	<1097108792.1344.310.camel@emilio>
Message-ID: <416494EC.3010504@mtholyoke.edu>

Tim,
    I agree entirely that it would be optimum for us not to confine 
ourselves to purely traditional academic arenas.  Nevertheless, the 
scope of our project, as dictated by our proposal, already demands a 
great deal of us in a relatively short period of time.  We therefore 
must narrow our efforts to focus on the specifics outlined in the 
proposal. 

Indeed, a separate mailing-list would be advantageous to the respective 
members of the project.  Note though that the project has not yet been 
approved for support by the PSF.  If by some unfortunate factors it was 
rejected, I can make no guarantees as to the capabilities of David and I 
in regards to fulfilling the project expectations.

Best Regards,
Bishara Gabriel


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 30 15:36:06 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:36:06 -0400
Subject: names of parameters as string
In-Reply-To: <clvt7v$qnb$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com><41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com><3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com><m31xfh8uhy.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu><mailman.5663.1099065452.5135.python-list@python.org><291020042102228624%JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom@no.spam.net>
	<1CC54D90-2A40-11D9-A5B8-0003939C968C@unito.it>
	<mailman.5706.1099127497.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clvt7v$qnb$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <U7Sgd.558$931.555@lakeread01>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> 
>>"andrea valle" <andrea.valle at unito.it> wrote in message
>>news:1CC54D90-2A40-11D9-A5B8-0003939C968C at unito.it...
>>
>>>Suppose I have a string and I'd like to create a variable with its name.
>>>How can I do that?
>>
>>globals['varname'] = 3
>>
>>difficult or impossible for function locals
> 
> 
> Not difficult - only ugly, slow, and dangerous:
> 
Not only ugly, slow and dangerous but also not guarantees to work on any 
specific implementation.

nobody-expects-the-spanish-inquisition-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From ksenia at ksenia.nl  Tue Oct 26 06:49:05 2004
From: ksenia at ksenia.nl (Ksenia Marasanova)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:49:05 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP (mod_python vs. mod_php)
In-Reply-To: <2u5mrpF276mk2U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<2u5mrpF276mk2U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <A7CC54C4-273C-11D9-81D8-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>

> Python is just a plain better language.  I use both
> PHP and Python heavily and finishing the same task in
> Python takes half the time in most cases, if not less.
>
> Unfortunately, mod_python deployment is a minute fraction
> of that of mod_php, and that is why Python is way less
> popular as a server-side scriptiong solution.
>
> Doing some research on why this is so reveals some 2-3
> year old posts that mention that it takes more effort to
> configure mod_python for stability and security on shared
> web hosts.
Just my 2c:
I am using mod_scgi http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/scgi/ (with 
Quixote), and this is a *very* stable solution. The application runs in 
a SCGI process, which is independent of Apache. If you modify the 
application code, SCGI process needs to be restarted. But Apache never 
needs to be restarted, and the configuration is very-very simple:
<Location />
   	SCGIServer 127.0.0.1 4001
   	SCGIHandler On
</Location>
In this example, Apache passes all requests to SCGI application running 
on port 4001.

The longest running scgi process on the server I have right now, is 6 
months old... (it had to be restarted 6 months ago due to code 
modification :-)

Ksenia.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 16:03:46 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:03:46 +0200
Subject: Binding in Python
References: <web-11768754@infinito.it>
	<mailman.5085.1098036899.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<QXycd.152486$35.7488986@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <1gltm75.1wu33ok1pbfq15N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Riccardo Rossi <riccardo.rorssi76 at email.it> wrote:
   ...
> I need to know how name binding and attribute binding work.

Almost as late as possible (save for a little crucial performance hack
for the local namespace of functions).  A name (including an attribute)
is bound or rebound when assigned to, and looked up each time it's used.

You'll have to be a bit more specific if you want more specific details.

Se ti e` piu` confortevole l'italiano, prova it.comp.lang.python ...


Alex


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Oct  6 05:02:51 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 06 Oct 2004 11:02:51 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<UWt8d.3156$UP1.2886@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<tyffz4scojl.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gl8cp9.1djml3pkru2mgN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tyfmzz0b4n8.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) writes:

> Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
>    ...
> > Some might argue that this is not the message passing paradigm, as (in
> > their opinion) the message passing paradigm mandates that _all_
> > interaction with the object be done via messages, and they might
> > (justifiably) argue that "x.y" is _not_ really a message.
> 
> I don't see the "justifiably" part -- how does the choice of syntax
> sugar make some operation "really a message" or not?!

Because they might claim that attribute access being implemented via a
message is an implementation detail, and that the concept represented
by the sugar (direct attribute access) is more important in this case.

All completely pointless, of course :-)

And, yes, probably not justifiable ... but who cares ?

> > But then, many would say that Python is not object-oriented at all, as
> > it does not have access restriction (enforced privacy).
> 
> And others have put down in writing that "being really
> object-oriented" absolutely requires static typing (!)

Yes, this one really puzzles me. One of the fundamental underlying
mechanisms for implementing object orientation would have to be
run-time type identification ... which, by definition, is absent from
static type systems. So you have to smuggle some dynamic typing into
your static type system.

(I vaguely remember reading somewhere, speculations that this might
otherwise be achieved by heroic efforts in delaying fromal binding
time by some other means.)

> The fact that people can and do say totally idiotic things [...] 
> doesn't mean much

My point exactly.

> _We_ of course don't need snake oil, since we have the whole
> snake...

Yes, but squeezing the oil out of the snake can be quite an effort. I
guess that's why so many people prefer the pre-extracted and packaged
product.


From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Thu Oct 28 02:06:59 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 06:06:59 GMT
Subject: Python Command Line Input Args equivalent to Perl
References: <opsgkfi8vo3n5jl2@news.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <slrnco1343.j0g.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:43:46 +0800,
	Edward WIJAYA <ewijaya at i2r.a-star.edu.g> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am new to Python, and I like to
> learn more about it. Since I am
> used to Perl before, I would like
> to know what is Python equivalent
> of Perl code below:
>
>
> $filename = $ARGV[0];
> open (FILE,"$filename") || die "Can't Open $filename:
> $!\n";
> while<FILE>{ #dealing with it per-lines
>     #process something here
> }

An equivalent python program might be:

	a b

It, like the perl code above, doesn't compile.

Python code which does what the perl code is probably meant to do
could be:

import sys
f = open(sys.argv[1])
for line in f:     #f.readlines() in older pythons
    #process something here, such as:
    print line,


> Also where can I find in any pointer/website
> link ofPerl-Python concordance,
> especially to facilitate Perl conversion to Python.

A dictionary would be of much more use than a concordance,
googling for 

	perl python dictionary

actually gives a match, by pure chance, since what you
really want is a "phrasebook' by the title of the match.

-- 
Sam Holden


From chrispatton at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 01:26:55 2004
From: chrispatton at gmail.com (Chris Patton)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 22:26:55 -0700
Subject: A newbie in more need....
References: <mailman.4164.1096606649.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9c3edc58.0410012126.7503511c@posting.google.com>

The question being asked is why I would want a bunch of identical
classes with different names. The classes will changed by certain
circumstances created by the program. You should also no that not only
am I new to Python, I am fairly new to programming as well.

Thank you for your suggestions, they were definitely helpful.


From russblau at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  5 10:48:48 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:48:48 -0400
Subject: Problem with string parsing
References: <948b993a.0410050638.3a0340ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2sfqigF1k3g5fU1@uni-berlin.de>

"Mike Howard" <mhoward at mahoward.com> wrote in message
news:948b993a.0410050638.3a0340ec at posting.google.com...
> If I do this:
> string.lstrip('1_mature_dt=10-May-2002','1_mature_dt=')

why not '1_mature_dt=10-May-2002'.lstrip('1_mature_dt=') ?

> I get:
> '0-May-2002'
> Which I did not expect

You have been bitten by the obscure documentation of the .lstrip() method.
The second argument is viewed as a collection of characters, not as a
substring; so, since there is a "1" in the collection of characters to be
stripped, the method removed the "1" at the beginning of the date.  It stops
when it gets to the first character *not* in the collection, which in your
case is the "0".


-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au  Thu Oct  7 09:30:58 2004
From: s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au (Shufen)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 06:30:58 -0700
Subject: Converting a set of data to string and then into a file
Message-ID: <d3502feb.0410070530.444744c6@posting.google.com>

Hi,
 
I have set up a upload form where user can add data into the form via
a web browser and submit it. And these data entered by the user will
be grabbed by:

xxxx = data.getvalue.('xxxx')     # data is the name of the form

and converted into a string by using:
str = "<xxxx>" + xxxx + "</xxxx>" + "\n"     # wanna to include the
tags
                                               into the file.

then write them into a file.

I'm trying to combine a bunch of data collected from a upload form
into a string and write it into a file. It works fine if the user
input each and every fields but it showed the following error if the
user did not. And
these fields are not compulsory, they may or may not have values. So
how should I do it? The error stated that I can't concatenate 'str'
and 'NoneType'.
 
Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
Thank you.

Shufen
 
 #####################################################
A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the
 sequence of function calls leading up to the error,
in the order they occurred.

/var/www/cgi-bin/sf/run_des.py
192         str += "<blame>" + blame + "</blame>" + "\n"
193         str += "<date_string>" + date_string + "</date_string>" +
"\n"
194         str += "<nozzle>" + nozzle + "</nozzle>" + "\n"
195         str += "<shocktube>" + shocktube + "</shocktube>" + "\n"
196         str += "<reservoir>" + reservoir + "</reservoir>" + "\n"
str = '<facility_name>T4 Shock
Tunnel</facility_name>\n<...F/PJ</blame>\n<date_string>05/10/04</date_string>\n',
nozzle = None

TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType'
objects
      __doc__ = 'Inappropriate argument type.'
      __getitem__ = <bound method
TypeError.__getitem__ of <exceptions.TypeError
instance at 0x81d31dc>>
      __init__ = <bound method TypeError.__init__ of
<exceptions.TypeError instance at 0x81d31dc>>
      __module__ = 'exceptions'
      __str__ = <bound method TypeError.__str__ of
<exceptions.TypeError instance at 0x81d31dc>>
      args = ("cannot concatenate 'str' and
'NoneType' objects",) 
 
######################################################


From daniel at syrinx.net  Wed Oct  6 17:07:17 2004
From: daniel at syrinx.net (Daniel Ellison)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:07:17 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <10m8hf0rkv5m000@corp.supernews.com>
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<10m8hf0rkv5m000@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2sj4u9F1keh1uU1@uni-berlin.de>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> That's always been my thought.  Another cliche phrase that seems to me 
> to be used counter to its explicit sense is the exclamation, "Oh the 
> humanity!"  The context always seems to suggest that it's being used to 
> imply INhumanity...

"Oh, the humanity!" is a direct quote from the radio host covering the 
arrival (and subsequent demise) of the Hindenburg at New Jersey's 
Lakehurst Naval Air Station in 1937. He was a bit perturbed at the time...

Dan


From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Oct  1 08:03:52 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:03:52 +0300
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<EPmdnagKPrUPhtPcRVn-iQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.3529.1095642828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gkgxts.1fq0rwq10mycqiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41513aac$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gkih9r.pfgqukvpt1rcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<37tjl09an200u6tejkrtklc8ib86uk7rm1@4ax.com>
	<7E_6d.33917$35.1643590@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <0hhql0pqlpjam9dopbare3bo62d59fi1s0@4ax.com>

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:11:31 GMT, rumours say that Anna Martelli
Ravenscroft <anna at aleax.it> might have written:

>> Alex, you are 99% correct.  Leave a 1% chance that Max referred to
>> "julio" as "it"... :)  Trolls are genderless!
>
>
>Sorry, Christos. Alex was correct: "its" is the appropriate usage here. 
>"it's" is a contraction of "it is", and NOT the possessive form of it. 
>Furthermore, Alex was quite kind in *not* correcting the mismatch 
>between the singular form of the verb "is" and the plural noun "points". 
>  I, otoh, am not so generous.
>
>The sentence *should* have read:
>"Well, not to feed the troll, but there are a few relevant points in its 
>posting."

I see marriage has *its* advantages...  :)

Actually, my post was a rather silly pun (think "It" by Stephen King),
and that is the reason I inserted a smiley.  I know that Alex was
correct.  It's my fault that I didn't make myself absolutely clear I was
joking (I firmly believe that the speaker/writer has the responsibility
to make themselves understood assuming good intentions from the side of
the audience --and good intentions are the norm here on clpy :).

Thanks for taking the time to reply, though!
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Oct 20 02:12:12 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:12:12 GMT
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <mntbn01dpfi3h456dkb90t3kqlnom14m0e@4ax.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5153.1098150302.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1098194866.552318.234710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5183.1098208117.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glxbjm.3z1g3hhxomoxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Wwfdd.1635$%h1.697@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mntbn01dpfi3h456dkb90t3kqlnom14m0e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <0lndd.1925$KJ6.830@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Andrea Griffini wrote:
> One of the parts that is going to be replaced by the new
> project is currently about 130K lines of C and is indeed
> being maintained by a single programmer.

I've been on one such project (hence one of my examples
was from experience).

> the maintainer replies
> with "I do not remember" or "no idea, let's see", and
> this even about parts developed by him).

I realized I had learned to expect maintainance programming
when a year or so later I had to go back to some old
code.  I didn't know what was going on at a certain
spot, looked up a few lines, and saw the comment I had
written explaining the tricky spot.  I thought it was
very nice of the past me to help out then present me.  :)

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Oct 27 12:13:06 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:13:06 +0100
Subject: how to check if URL cannot be opened
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B6A@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[miodio67 at hotmail.com]
| Im new to python. So I was hoping someone could provide the following.
| How would I go about checking if a user can be opened. For example if
| user provides www.x.com, how would I check if there is such a url?
| What methods would I need to invoke?

<code>
import urllib

DEFAULT_LINK = "http://www.example.com"
while 1:
  print
  link = raw_input ("Enter link [%s]: " % DEFAULT_LINK) or DEFAULT_LINK
  print "Checking link...",
  try:
    urllib.urlopen (link)
  except:
    print "Couldn't open %s - please check the spelling &c." % link
  else:
    break

</code>

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 16:22:59 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:22:59 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<cl0umu$kdm$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<cl0v8o$8a4$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<mailman.5126.1098122988.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl11jf$r9$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<mailman.5131.1098126770.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glvhih.mackqd12vhs62N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
   ...
> If what Python does is like Java, perhaps C# or what have you, great.  It
> is, however, different from the C semantic description of "pass by value",
> "pass by reference", and the standard CS education definition of either.

C is also very simple, just like Python: C always does pass by value.
I.e., C always does implicit copy (on assignment or parameter passing),
just like Python never does.

So in C you ask explicitly when you want a reference (pointer) instead,
e.g. with &foo -- in Python you ask explicitly when you want a copy
instead, e.g. with copy.copy(foo).  Two simple language, at opposite
ends of the semantics scale, but each consistent and clean.  (Python
matches 4.5 of the 5 points which define "the spirit of C" according to
the latter's Standard's preface...!-).

[[ok, each has its warts -- e.g. C has arrays which mysteriously decay
into pointers instead of getting copied, Python has slices that make
copies instead of sharing part of the original sequence [or not; it
depends whether said sequence is a list or Numeric.array, sigh...] --
being human and being perfect are incompatible traits.  But _mostly_
they have simplicity and consistency, everything explicit.]]

The key point is that, in both languages, a function's arguments are
just like local variables pre-initialized by the caller with assignment
statements.  In both languages, if the function reassigns an argument
it's just playing with its own local variables, the caller is never in
any way affected by that.  In both languages, there are other ways
except plain barename assignments to possibly "affect the caller" (in C
you basically need to have been passed a pointer, and dereference that
pointer or another pointer computed from the first by pointer
arithmetic; in Python you basically need to have been passed a mutable
object, and call mutating methods on that object).  Again, in both cases
I see simplicity and consistency, everything pretty explicit...


Alex


From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Thu Oct  7 07:19:04 2004
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:19:04 +0200
Subject: Plone FAQ
Message-ID: <41652628.60602@cenix-bioscience.com>

Hello,

          Does anyone have a copy of the plone FAQs (the plone link on 
plone.org is busted) - I'm thinking of moving from Postnuke to Plone 
because I can't be arsed to learn PHP!

Cheers,

Neil

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
BioInnovations Zentrum
Tatzberg 47
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (0)351 4173 154
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com



From stephendotboulet at motorola_._com  Thu Oct  7 10:18:25 2004
From: stephendotboulet at motorola_._com (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:18:25 -0500
Subject: Getting and setting the clipboard in Windows
Message-ID: <ck3jc7$735$1@newshost.mot.com>

I'm using the following code in clipboard.py. The problem is that it 
sets the clipboard text correctly sometimes and sometimes doesn't alter 
it at all. What am I doing wrong?

import win32clipboard,sys

def getclipboard():	
....# Get current string from clipboard. If string empty, error out.
....win32clipboard.OpenClipboard(0)
....if win32clipboard.IsClipboardFormatAvailable(win32clipboard.CF_TEXT):
........s = win32clipboard.GetClipboardData(win32clipboard.CF_TEXT)
........win32clipboard.CloseClipboard()
....else:
........win32clipboard.CloseClipboard()
........from wxMessageBox import showerror
........showerror('Error!','No text on clipboard')
........sys.exit()
....return s

def setclipboard(s):
....# Paste string to clipboard
....win32clipboard.OpenClipboard(0)
....win32clipboard.EmptyClipboard()
....win32clipboard.SetClipboardText(s)
....win32clipboard.CloseClipboard()

Stephen


From matthias-dated at mteege.de  Wed Oct 13 07:32:38 2004
From: matthias-dated at mteege.de (Matthias Teege)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:32:38 +0200
Subject: quoting %
Message-ID: <863c0ihmz7.fsf@mut.mteege.de>


Moin,

I need a string like this "foo '%value%'" for a database query but
print "'%%s%'"%value gives me TypeError: not all arguments converted
during string formatting. How does I quote the "%" sign in this case?

Matthias
-- 
Matthias Teege -- http://www.mteege.de
make world not war


From robby at planetargon.com  Thu Oct 21 21:55:30 2004
From: robby at planetargon.com (Robby Russell)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:55:30 -0700
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <1098409412.6627.89.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<10ngn6n6tgd5k28@corp.supernews.com>
	<1098409412.6627.89.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <1098410130.17005.104.camel@vacant>

On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 18:43 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
> Well, that's a matter of personal taste.  Garlic is good on
> *everything*.

Mmm... roasted garlic smoothies.



-- 
/***************************************
* Robby Russell | Owner.Developer.Geek
* PLANET ARGON  | www.planetargon.com
* Portland, OR  | robby at planetargon.com
* 503.351.4730  | blog.planetargon.com
* PHP/PostgreSQL Hosting & Development
****************************************/

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From exarkun at divmod.com  Tue Oct 19 09:17:26 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:17:26 GMT
Subject: Yet more SMTP
In-Reply-To: <20041019073629.GA1755@mylene.ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <20041019131726.4730.1479209955.divmod.quotient.1808@ohm>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:36:29 +0200, Gerhard Haering <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:
>On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 12:03:08AM +0000, LutherRevisited wrote:
> > [...]
> > s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.aol.com', 587)
> > [...]
> >         s.docmd('AUTH', 'PLAIN')
> > [...]
> 
> Don't reinvent the wheel. Use .login instead(). Also, PLAIN doesn't
> mean you send the password in plain text (it's encoded with base64).

  Sure it does.  "Plain text" and "base64 encoded" aren't different in a way that makes any difference.

  Jp


From jerf at jerf.org  Sat Oct 30 16:26:08 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:26:08 GMT
Subject: [OT] Re: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5689.1099092886.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nl07o0lr3dvunoq2j0avuvmftnc837fvoc@4ax.com>
	<pan.2004.10.30.18.29.36.74744@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5721.1099166880.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.30.23.11.53.995299@jerf.org>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:06:04 -0400, Brian van den Broek wrote:
> I take it you didn't mean 0 was the only number, but rather the only 
> primitive number. (Alternatively " '0' is the only individual constant" 
> in the cant I prefer.)

*shrug* Can't say I get worked up over the difference there. Regardless,
you "can't" write "3". (Of course you can define it, but that's true of
everything.)

> I am also surprised to see "increment" -- I come to that material with 
> working in Philosophy of Mathematics and Logic, but almost every 
> presentation I have ever seen uses "successor". (I'm going off of 
> philosophical and mathematical logic presentations.)

Yeah, that would be right. Couldn't recall the exact name.

>> number theory, from which we build the rest of math. (Most people never
>> dig this deep; it was one of my favorite classes in Comp. Sci., though,
>> and we're probably the only people other than mathematicians to offer the
>> course.)
> 
> I've never taken a single comp. sci. course, so I will both claim and 
> commit disciplinary bias: serious undergrad logic/foundations of maths 
> courses do happen in Philosophy, too :-)

Gonna nit pick myself here: "Most people". I think adding Philosophers and
dilettantes and the rare electrical engineer isn't likely to change the
"most". 

> On the other hand, I'm a bit surprised that these things get taught in 
> comp. sci. This past summer when teaching Intro to Logic, I encountered 
> at least one fourth-year comp. sci. student who had no idea what an 
> axiomatic system was :-|

Graduate level. And many of the grads hated it. There is a chasm between
the average Comp. Sci. student and the average professor; it isn't so bad
at the grad level but it is still there. I'm not sure if it's worse than
most disciplines, but I am inclined to believe it is, since Comp Sci
typically can't really work out if it is math or engineering (wide
consensus is that while there are scientific aspects to it, it probably
shouldn't have it in the name), and there are, in my experience, fairly
clean divisions of each student and professor into one camp or another. I
was one of the exceedingly rare students who could do both quite well, and
freely translate between them.


From ksenia at ksenia.nl  Sat Oct  2 05:26:47 2004
From: ksenia at ksenia.nl (Ksenia Marasanova)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:26:47 +0200
Subject: locale.setlocale problems
In-Reply-To: <415e7aaf$0$24565$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <mailman.4194.1096709659.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415e7aaf$0$24565$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <2ED80487-1455-11D9-8A55-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>

> Python relies on the operating system here, so please bring
> this up with your OS vendor.

Okay, I got it now. Thanks for the explanation.

>> And the last question: when I change locale in a Python application, 
>> it affects only the current namespace, right? I hope so... :)
>
> Not sure what a namespace is, in this context, but I guess the answer 
> is
> "yes".

With 'namespace' I meant only the module when the locale is changed, so 
it not affects other scripts that run at the same time on the system. I 
misunderstood locale as being some system-wide 'registry' which 
remembers the changes in it. (have some vague, bad memories about 
changing locale in an ASP application... :-)

Thank you,
Ksenia.




From rkern at ucsd.edu  Sun Oct 10 13:48:09 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:48:09 -0700
Subject: module name not recognized
In-Reply-To: <ckbq7s$7vc$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <ck6s3u$bp4$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.4662.1097393832.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckbq7s$7vc$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <ckbskp$9d2$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Darren Dale wrote:

> # trying /home/darren/temp/simCTR/fresnel.so
> # trying /home/darren/temp/simCTR/fresnelmodule.so
> # trying /home/darren/temp/simCTR/fresnel.py
> # trying /home/darren/temp/simCTR/fresnel.pyc
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "temp.py", line 7, in ?
>     from simCTR.fresnel import *
> ImportError: No module named fresnel

Don't execute python from /home/darren/temp .

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 14 21:05:52 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 18:05:52 -0700
Subject: ANN: PySourceColor 1.7
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0410141705.4fb6de25@posting.google.com>

Hello all,
    This version of PySourceColor supports decorators.
It looks like the syntax is there for a while, so I decided add them
in.
They parser code has also been extended to seperate all 12 types of
string.
I rewrote the _Null colorscheme to actually be null format.
Changed the old _Null to _Mono a black and white colorscheme for
printing.
Also added a few utility functions.
If you don't like the builtin colorschemes you should be able to write
a colorscheme that looks exactly like you want.
This is something that would be nice to have built into pydoc.
The links at the top-right of a pydoc page could point to a colorized
source and a plain text version :)
This program should run with Python 2.0 -> 2.4.
The code can be any version.
Just save to a file and run it.
It will parse itself into 6 diffrent webpages and show them.
    M.E.Farmer

######################################################################
# PySourceColor    
# A python source to colorized html converter.
# This does not create w3c valid html, but it works on every 
# browser i've tried so far.(I.E.,Mozilla/Firefox,Opera,wxHTML).
# After experimenting with diffrent html vs CSS + html
# I settled on plain old html because it works!
# Too bad CSS is not supported everywhere yet.
# Hacked by M.E.Farmer Jr. 2004
# Python license
######################################################################
# Currently it can seperate and colorize:
#   12 types of strings 
#    2 comment types
#      numbers
#      operators
#      class / name
#      def / name
#      decorator / name
#      keywords
#      text
# And can use any combination of 3 styles:
#      bold 
#      italic
#      underline    
######################################################################
# Recent changes:
#   October 09, 2004:
#      Added support for @decorators.
#         Tested on 2.2 and 2.4
#   Sepetember 25, 2004:
#      Extended string handling:
#         Unicode - single, singletriple, double, double triple
#         Raw     - single, singletriple, double, double triple
#         regular - single, singletriple, double, double triple
# 
######################################################################

import keyword, os, sys, traceback
import cgi, string, cStringIO
import token, tokenize, glob
import getopt, webbrowser, time
__title__ = 'PySourceColor'
__version__ = "1.7"
__date__ = '09 October 2004'
__author__ = "M.E.Farmer Jr."
__credits__ = '''This was originally submitted /written by 
J?rgen Hermann to ASPN python recipes.
I hacked the parser to give me more control over tokens.
Python license     M.E.Farmer 2004
'''
# Testing raw and unicode strings
# We do nothing with the value just look at colorizing
_ = (r'raw',r'''raw''',r"raw",r"""raw""")##Raw test
_ = (u'uni',u'''uni''',u"uni",u"""uni""")##Unicode test

# Do not edit
_DOUBLECOMMENT = token.NT_OFFSET + 1   
_CLASS = token.NT_OFFSET + 2
_DEF = token.NT_OFFSET + 3           
_TEXT = token.NT_OFFSET + 4           
_KEYWORD = token.NT_OFFSET + 5      
_SINGLEQUOTE = token.NT_OFFSET + 6
_SINGLEQUOTE_R = token.NT_OFFSET + 7 
_SINGLEQUOTE_U = token.NT_OFFSET + 8 
_DOUBLEQUOTE = token.NT_OFFSET + 9  
_DOUBLEQUOTE_R = token.NT_OFFSET + 10  
_DOUBLEQUOTE_U = token.NT_OFFSET + 11  
_TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE = token.NT_OFFSET + 12
_TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_R = token.NT_OFFSET + 13
_TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_U = token.NT_OFFSET + 14
_TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE = token.NT_OFFSET + 15
_TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_R = token.NT_OFFSET + 16
_TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_U = token.NT_OFFSET + 17
_BACKGROUND = token.NT_OFFSET + 18
_DECORATOR = token.NT_OFFSET + 19
_DECORATOR_DEF = token.NT_OFFSET + 20

######################################################################
# Edit colors and styles to taste
# Create your own scheme, just copy one below , rename and edit.
# Color is rgb hex and must be specified. #RRGGBB
# Styles are optional: b=bold, i=italic, u=underline
# Colorscheme names must start with an underscore: _MyColor
# Underscore will not be used on command line (--color= Pythonwin)
######################################################################
_Null = {
        token.ERRORTOKEN:     '#FF8080',# no edit
        token.STRING:         '#000000',# no edit 
        _TEXT:                '#000000',# no edit
        _DECORATOR_DEF:       '#000000',# Decorators
        _DECORATOR:           '#000000',# @
        token.NAME:           '#000000',# All Text
        token.NUMBER:         '#000000',# 0->10
        token.OP:             '#000000',# ()<>=!.:;^>%, etc...
        tokenize.COMMENT:     '#000000',# There are 2 types of comment
        _DOUBLECOMMENT:       '#000000',## Like this 
        _CLASS:               '#000000',# Class name
        _DEF:                 '#000000',# Def name
        _KEYWORD:             '#000000',# Python keywords
        _SINGLEQUOTE:         '#000000',# 'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _SINGLEQUOTE_R:       '#000000',# r'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _SINGLEQUOTE_U:       '#000000',# u'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _DOUBLEQUOTE:         '#000000',# "DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _DOUBLEQUOTE_R:       '#000000',# r"DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _DOUBLEQUOTE_U:       '#000000',# u"DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE:   '#000000',# '''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_R: '#000000',# r'''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_U: '#000000',# u'''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE:   '#000000',# """TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_R: '#000000',# r"""TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_U: '#000000',# u"""TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _BACKGROUND:          '#FFFFFF',# Page background color
        }

_Mono = {
        token.ERRORTOKEN:     '#FF8080',# no edit
        token.STRING:         '#000000',# no edit 
        _TEXT:                '#000000',# no edit
        _DECORATOR_DEF:     'bu#000000',# Decorators
        _DECORATOR:          'b#000000',# @
        token.NAME:           '#000000',# All Text
        token.NUMBER:        'b#000000',# 0->10
        token.OP:            'b#000000',# ()<>=!.:;^>%, etc...
        tokenize.COMMENT:    'i#000000',# There are 2 types of comment
        _DOUBLECOMMENT:       '#000000',## Like this 
        _CLASS:             'bu#000000',# Class name
        _DEF:                'b#000000',# Def name
        _KEYWORD:            'b#000000',# Python keywords
        _SINGLEQUOTE:         '#000000',# 'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _SINGLEQUOTE_R:       '#000000',# r'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _SINGLEQUOTE_U:       '#000000',# u'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _DOUBLEQUOTE:         '#000000',# "DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _DOUBLEQUOTE_R:       '#000000',# r"DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _DOUBLEQUOTE_U:       '#000000',# u"DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE:   '#000000',# '''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_R: '#000000',# r'''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_U: '#000000',# u'''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE:  'i#000000',# """TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_R:'i#000000',# r"""TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_U:'i#000000',# u"""TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _BACKGROUND:          '#FFFFFF',# Page background color
        }
    
_Dark = {
        token.ERRORTOKEN:     '#FF8080',# no edit
        token.STRING:         '#FFFFFF',# no edit 
        _TEXT:                '#000000',# no edit
        _DECORATOR_DEF:      'b#FFBBAA',# Decorators
        _DECORATOR:          'b#CC5511',# @    
        token.NAME:           '#ffffff',# All Text
        token.NUMBER:         '#FF0000',# 0->10
        token.OP:            'b#FAF785',# Operators ()<>=!.:;^>%,
etc...
        tokenize.COMMENT:    'i#45FCA0',# There are 2 types of comment
        _DOUBLECOMMENT:       '#A7C7A9',## Like this 
        _CLASS:              'b#B599FD',# Class name
        _DEF:                'b#EBAE5C',# Def name
        _KEYWORD:            'b#8680FF',# Python keywords
        _SINGLEQUOTE:         '#F8BAFE',# 'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _SINGLEQUOTE_R:       '#F8BAFE',# r'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _SINGLEQUOTE_U:       '#F8BAFE',# u'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _DOUBLEQUOTE:         '#FF80C0',# "DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _DOUBLEQUOTE_R:       '#FF80C0',# r"DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _DOUBLEQUOTE_U:       '#FF80C0',# u"DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE:   '#FF9595',# '''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_R: '#FF9595',# r'''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_U: '#FF9595',# u'''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE:   '#B3FFFF',# """TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_R: '#B3FFFF',# r"""TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_U: '#B3FFFF',# u"""TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _BACKGROUND:          '#000000',# Page background color
        }
    
     
_Lite = {
        token.ERRORTOKEN:     '#FF8080',# no edit
        token.STRING:         '#000000',# no edit 
        _TEXT:                '#000000',# no edit
        _DECORATOR_DEF:      'b#BB4422',# Decorators
        _DECORATOR:          'b#3333af',# @   
        token.NAME:           '#000000',# All Text
        token.NUMBER:         '#FF2200',# 0->10
        token.OP:            'b#303000',# Operators ()<>=!.:;^>%,
etc...
        tokenize.COMMENT:     '#007F00',# There are 2 types of comment
        _DOUBLECOMMENT:       '#606060',## Like this 
        _CLASS:               '#0000FF',# Class name
        _DEF:                'b#9C7A00',# Def name
        _KEYWORD:            'b#0000AF',# Python keywords
        _SINGLEQUOTE:         '#600080',# 'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _SINGLEQUOTE_R:       '#600080',# r'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _SINGLEQUOTE_U:       '#600080',# u'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _DOUBLEQUOTE:         '#A0008A',# "DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _DOUBLEQUOTE_R:       '#A0008A',# r"DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _DOUBLEQUOTE_U:       '#A0008A',# u"DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE:   '#4488BB',# '''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_R: '#4488BB',# r'''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_U: '#4488BB',# u'''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE:   '#2299BB',# """TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_R: '#2299BB',# r"""TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_U: '#2299BB',# u"""TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _BACKGROUND:          '#FFFFFF',# Page background color
        }

_Idle = {
        token.ERRORTOKEN:     '#FF8080',# no edit
        token.STRING:         '#000000',# no edit 
        _TEXT:                '#000000',# no edit
        _DECORATOR_DEF:       '#900090',# Decorators
        _DECORATOR:           '#000000',# @   
        token.NAME:           '#000000',# All Text
        token.NUMBER:         '#000000',# 0->10
        token.OP:             '#000000',# Operators ()<>=!.:;^>%,
etc...
        tokenize.COMMENT:     '#DD0000',# There are 2 types of comment
        _DOUBLECOMMENT:       '#DD0000',## Like this 
        _CLASS:               '#0000FF',# Class name
        _DEF:                 '#0000FF',# Def name
        _KEYWORD:             '#FF7700',# Python keywords
        _SINGLEQUOTE:         '#00AA00',# 'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _SINGLEQUOTE_R:       '#00AA00',# r'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _SINGLEQUOTE_U:       '#00AA00',# u'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _DOUBLEQUOTE:         '#00AA00',# "DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _DOUBLEQUOTE_R:       '#00AA00',# r"DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _DOUBLEQUOTE_U:       '#00AA00',# u"DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE:   '#00AA00',# '''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_R: '#00AA00',# r'''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_U: '#00AA00',# u'''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE:   '#00AA00',# """TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_R: '#00AA00',# r"""TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_U: '#00AA00',# u"""TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _BACKGROUND:          '#FFFFFF',# Page background color
        }
    
_PythonWin = {
        token.ERRORTOKEN:     '#FF8080',# no edit
        token.STRING:         '#000000',# no edit
        _TEXT:                '#000000',# no edit
        _DECORATOR_DEF:      'b#303030',# Decorators
        _DECORATOR:          'b#DD0080',# @  
        token.NAME:           '#303030',# All Text
        token.NUMBER:         '#008080',# 0->10
        token.OP:             '#000000',# ()<>=!.:;^>%, etc...
        tokenize.COMMENT:     '#007F00',# There are 2 types of comment
        _DOUBLECOMMENT:       '#7F7F7F',## Like this 
        _CLASS:              'b#0000FF',# Class name
        _DEF:                'b#007F7F',# Def name
        _KEYWORD:            'b#000080',# Python keywords
        _SINGLEQUOTE:         '#808000',# 'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _SINGLEQUOTE_R:       '#808000',# r'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _SINGLEQUOTE_U:       '#808000',# u'SINGLEQUOTE'
        _DOUBLEQUOTE:         '#808000',# "DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _DOUBLEQUOTE_R:       '#808000',# r"DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _DOUBLEQUOTE_U:       '#808000',# u"DOUBLEQUOTE"
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE:   '#808000',# '''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_R: '#808000',# r'''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_U: '#808000',# u'''TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE'''
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE:   '#808000',# """TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_R: '#808000',# r"""TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_U: '#808000',# u"""TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE"""
        _BACKGROUND:          '#FFFFFF',# Page background color
        }
DefaultColorScheme= _Dark 
##################################################################################

def Usage():
   """
_______________________________________________________________________________
Example usage:
  # To colorize all .py,.pyw files in cwdir you can also use: . or _
 python PySourceColor.py -i .
  # Using long options w/ =
 python PySourceColor.py --in=c:/myDir/my.py --out=c:/myDir
--color=Lite --show
  # Using short options w/out =
 python PySourceColor.py -i c:/myDir/  -c Idle
  # Using any mix 
 python PySourceColor.py --in _ -o=c:/myDir --show
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This module is designed to colorize python source code.
It is a hacked version of MoinMoin python parser recipe.
    -h or --help
        Display this help message.
    -i or --in 
        Input file or dir. (Use any of these for the cwdir . , _ ,
this)
    -o or --out
        Optional, output dir for the colorized source
            default: output dir is input dir.
    -c or --color
        Optional. Null, Dark, Lite, Idle, Pythonwin, create your own!
            default: Dark
    -s or --show
        Optional, Show webpage after creation.
            default: no show
_______________________________________________________________________________
"""
   print Usage.__doc__

def Main():
    '''Gathers the command line arguments 
       and try to do something reasonable with them.
    '''
    try:
        # try to get command line args 
        opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:],
                     "hsi:o:c:", ["help", "show", "input=", "out=",
"color="])
    except getopt.GetoptError:
        # on error print help information and exit:
        Usage()
        sys.exit(2)
    # init some names
    input = None
    output = None
    scheme = None
    show = 0
    # if we have args then process them
    for o, a in opts:
        if o in ("-h", "--help"):
            Usage()
            sys.exit()
        if o in ("-o", "--out"):
            output = a
        if o in ("-i", "--input"):
            input = a
            if input in('.','_', 'this'):
                input = os.getcwd()
        if o  in ("-s", "--show"):
            show = 1
        if o in ("-c", "--color"):
            try:
               #Fix this if you see a weakness
               scheme = eval('_%s'%a)
            except:
               traceback.print_exc()

    if input == None:
        # if there was no input specified then we try to
        # parse ourselves and do it in diffrent flavors.
        fi = sys.argv[0]
        Path2File(fi, '/MyDir/null', _Null, 1)
        Path2File(fi, '/MyDir/mono', _Mono, 1)
        Path2File(fi, '/MyDir/lite', _Lite, 1)
        Path2File(fi, '/MyDir/dark', _Dark, 1)
        Path2File(fi, '/MyDir/idle', _Idle, 1)
        Path2File(fi, '/MyDir/pythonwin', _PythonWin, 1)
    else:
        # if there was at least an input given we can proceed
        Convert(input, output, scheme, show)
import os

def Str2Html(sourcestring, title='', form=None, colors=None):
    '''Converts a code(string) to colorized HTML 
       and prints to sys.stdout
       form='pre','code',or'snip' for "<pre>yourcode</pre>" only
       colors=_Null,_Mono,_Lite,_Dark,_Idle,or _PythonWin
       example:
Str2Html("""x, y = os.path.split(myPath)
if os.path.isdir(y):
    print'No file' """,form='snip',colors=_Lite)
    '''
    Parser(sourcestring, colors, title).format(form)

def Path2Html(sourcepath, form=None, colors=None):
    '''Converts code(file) to colorized HTML 
       and prints to sys.stdout
       form='pre','code',or'snip' for "<pre>yourcode</pre>" only
       colors=_Null,_Mono,_Lite,_Dark,_Idle,or _PythonWin
    '''
    source = open(sourcepath).read()
    Parser(source, colors, sourcepath).format(form)

def Convert(sourcePath, outdir=None, colors=None, show=0):
    ''' Converts all python source in the given directory to html
file/s.
    '''
    c=0
     # If it is a filename then Path2File
    if not os.path.isdir(sourcePath):
        if os.path.isfile(sourcePath):
            c+=1
            Path2File(sourcePath, outdir, colors, show)
    # If we pass in a dir we need to walkdir for files.
    # Then we need to colorize them with Path2File
    else:
        fileList = WalkDir(sourcePath)
        if fileList != None:
            for i in fileList:
                c+=1
                Path2File(i, outdir, colors, show)
            print'Completed colorizing %s source files.'% str(c)
        else:
            print"No files to convert in dir."

def Path2File(sourcePath, outdir=None, colors=None, show=0):
    ''' Converts python source to html file.
    '''
    print" Converting %s into HTML" % sourcePath
    # If no outdir is given we use the sourcePath
    if outdir == None:
        htmlPath = sourcePath + '.html'
    else:
        # If we do give an outdir, and it does
        # not exist , it will be created.
        if not os.path.isdir(outdir):
            os.makedirs(outdir)
        sourceName = os.path.basename(sourcePath)
        htmlPath = os.path.join(outdir,sourceName)+'.html'
        print "  Output to %s"%htmlPath
    # Open the text and do the parsing.
    source = open(sourcePath).read()
    Parser(source, colors, sourcePath, open(htmlPath, 'wt')).format()
    if show:
        # load HTML page into the default web browser.
        # slower than os.startfile or os.system, but more universal
        try:
            webbrowser.open_new(htmlPath)
        except:
            traceback.print_exc()
    return htmlPath

def WalkDir(dir):
    '''Return a list of .py and .pyw files from a given directory.
       This function can be written as a generator Python 2.3, or a
genexp
       in Python 2.4. But 2.2 and 2.1 would be left out....
    '''
    # Get a list of files that match *.py*
    GLOB_PATTERN = os.path.join(dir, "*.[p][y]*")
    pathlist = glob.glob(GLOB_PATTERN)
    # Now filter out all but py and pyw
    filterlist = [x for x in pathlist 
                        if x.endswith('.py')
                        or x.endswith('.pyw')]
    if filterlist != []:
        # if we have a list send it
        return filterlist
    else:
        return None

class Parser:
    """ MoinMoin python parser heavily chopped :)
    """
    def __init__(self, raw, colors=None, title='', out=sys.stdout):
        ''' Store the source text & set some flags.
        '''
        if colors == None:
            colors = DefaultColorScheme
        self.raw = string.strip(string.expandtabs(raw))
        self.out = out
        self.title = os.path.basename(title)
        self.ClassFlag = 0
        self.DefFlag = 0
        self.Decorator = 0
        self.colors = colors
        # Name: Date stamp top
        self.header = 0
        # Name: Date stamp bottom
        self.footer = 0

    def format(self, form=None, filler=None):
        ''' Parse and send the colored source.
        '''
        if form in ['snip','pre','code']:
            self.addEnds = 0
        else:
            self.addEnds = 1
        # Store line offsets in self.lines
        self.lines = [0, 0]
        pos = 0

        # Gather lines
        while 1:
            pos = string.find(self.raw, '\n', pos) + 1
            if not pos: break
            self.lines.append(pos)
        self.lines.append(len(self.raw))

        # Wrap text in a filelike object
        self.pos = 0
        text = cStringIO.StringIO(self.raw)

        # Html start
        if self.addEnds:
            self._doPageStart()
        else:
            self._doSnippetStart()

        # Parse the source.
        ## Tokenize calls the __call__ 
        ## function for each token till done.
        try:
            tokenize.tokenize(text.readline, self)
        except tokenize.TokenError, ex:
            msg = ex[0]
            line = ex[1][0]
            self.out.write("<h3>ERROR: %s</h3>%s\n" % (
                msg, self.raw[self.lines[line]:]))
            traceback.print_exc()

        # Html end
        if self.addEnds:
            self._doPageEnd()
        else:
            self._doSnippetEnd()   

    def __call__(self, toktype, toktext, (srow,scol), (erow,ecol),
line):
        ''' Token handler. Order of evaluation is important do not
rearrange.
        '''
        style = ''
        # calculate new positions
        oldpos = self.pos
        newpos = self.lines[srow] + scol
        self.pos = newpos + len(toktext)

        # handle newlines
        if toktype in [token.NEWLINE, tokenize.NL]:
            self.out.write('\n')
            return

        # send the original whitespace, if needed
        if newpos > oldpos:
            self.out.write(self.raw[oldpos:newpos])

        # skip indenting tokens
        if toktype in [token.INDENT, token.DEDENT]:
            self.pos = newpos
            return

        if self.ClassFlag or self.DefFlag:
            # maps the color if it was a class or def name
            if self.ClassFlag:
                toktype = _CLASS
                self.ClassFlag = 0 
            elif self.DefFlag:
                toktype = _DEF
                self.DefFlag = 0
        else:
            # Sets a flag if it was a class, def
            # next token will be colored.
            if toktext =='class':
                self.ClassFlag = 1
            elif toktext == 'def':
                self.DefFlag = 1
            #The last token was a @ so we must be a deco name
            elif self.Decorator:
                toktype = _DECORATOR_DEF
                # reset the flag
                self.Decorator = 0

        # map token type to a color group
        if token.LPAR <= toktype and toktype <= token.OP:
            # trap decorators py2.4>
            if toktext == '@':
                toktype = _DECORATOR
                #Colorize next token (decorator name)
                self.Decorator = 1
            else:
                toktype = token.OP
        elif toktype == token.NAME and keyword.iskeyword(toktext):
            toktype = _KEYWORD

        # Extended to seperate the diffrent string types..
        # Plus raw and unicode types. (12 string types)
        # Order of evaluation is important do not change.
        if toktype == token.STRING:
            # TRIPLE DOUBLE QUOTE's
            if (toktext[:3].lower() == '"""'):
                toktype = _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE
            elif (toktext[:4].lower() == 'r"""'):
                toktype = _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_R
            elif (toktext[:4].lower() == 'u"""'):
                toktype = _TRIPLEDOUBLEQUOTE_U
            # DOUBLE QUOTE's
            elif (toktext[:1].lower() == '"'):
                toktype = _DOUBLEQUOTE
            elif (toktext[:2].lower() == 'r"'):
                toktype = _DOUBLEQUOTE_R
            elif (toktext[:2].lower() == 'u"'): 
                toktype = _DOUBLEQUOTE_U
            # TRIPLE SINGLE QUOTE's
            elif (toktext[:3].lower() == "'''"):
                toktype = _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE
            elif (toktext[:4].lower() == "r'''"):
                toktype = _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_R
            elif (toktext[:4].lower() == "u'''"):
                toktype = _TRIPLESINGLEQUOTE_U
            # SINGLE QUOTE's
            elif (toktext[:1].lower() == "'"):
                toktype = _SINGLEQUOTE
            elif (toktext[:2].lower() == "r'"):
                toktype = _SINGLEQUOTE_R
            elif (toktext[:2].lower() == "u'"):
                toktype = _SINGLEQUOTE_U

        # Exetended to seperate the diffrent comment types
        elif toktype == tokenize.COMMENT:
            if toktext[:2] == "##":
                toktype = _DOUBLECOMMENT

        # Extended errors to seperate decorators
        elif toktype == token.ERRORTOKEN:
            # trap decorators...<py2.3
            if toktext == '@':
                toktype = _DECORATOR
                self.Decorator = 1
            else:
                # Error tokenizing ..red boxes
                style = ' style="border: solid 1.5pt #FF0000;"'
                
        # Get the colors from the dictionary for the standard tokens
        color = self.colors.get(toktype, self.colors[_TEXT])
        otherstart = ''
        otherend = ''
        splitpoint = color.find('#')
        tags = color[:splitpoint].lower()
        color = color[splitpoint:]
        
        # Check for styles and set them if needed.
        if 'b' in tags:#Bold
            otherstart += '<b>'
            otherend += '</b>'
        if 'i' in tags:#Italics
            otherstart += '<i>'
            otherend += '</i>'
        if 'u' in tags:#Underline
            otherstart += '<u>'
            otherend += '</u>'

        # send text
        self.out.write('<font color="%s"%s>%s' % (color, style,
otherstart))
        self.out.write(cgi.escape(toktext))
        self.out.write('%s</font>'% (otherend,))
        return

    def _doSnippetStart(self):
        self.out.write('<pre><font face="Lucida Console, Courier
New">\n')

    def _doSnippetEnd(self):
        self.out.write('</pre>\n')

    def _doPageStart(self):
        self.out.write(
                 '<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2
Final//EN">\n')
        self.out.write('<html><head><title>%s</title>\n'%
(self.title))
        self.out.write('<!--This document created by %s %s on:
%s-->\n'%
                                       
(__title__,__version__,time.ctime()))
        self.out.write('<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" \
                         content="text/html;charset=iso-8859-1" />\n')
        # Get background color and check for styles and ignore all but
b,i,u
        color = self.colors.get(_BACKGROUND, self.colors[_TEXT])
        color = color[color.find('#'):]
        if color[:1] != '#': 
            self.out.write('</head><body bgcolor="#000000">\n')
        else:
            self.out.write('</head><body bgcolor="%s">\n'% color)
        # Write a little info at the top.
        if self.header:
            self._doPageHeader()
        self.out.write('<pre><font face="Lucida Console, Courier
New">\n')

    def _doPageHeader(self):
        color = self.colors.get(token.NAME, self.colors[_TEXT])
        color = color[color.find('#'):]
        self.out.write(' <b><u><font color="%s">%s   
%s</font></u></b>\n'%
                                   (color, self.title, time.ctime()))
    def _doPageFooter(self):
        color = self.colors.get(token.NAME, self.colors[_TEXT])
        color = color[color.find('#'):]
        self.out.write(' <b><u><font color="%s">%s   
%s</font></u></b>\n'%
                                   (color, self.title,time.ctime()))
    def _doPageEnd(self):
        self.out.write('</pre>\n')
        # Write a little info at the bottom
        if self.footer:
            self._doPageFooter()
        # Write a little info in the web page source
        self.out.write('<!--This document created by %s ver.%s on:
%s-->\n'%
                                  
(__title__,__version__,time.ctime()))
        self.out.write('</body></html>\n')

if __name__ == '__main__':
    Main()
# End of code


From andrewm at object-craft.com.au  Wed Oct 13 00:05:07 2004
From: andrewm at object-craft.com.au (Andrew McNamara)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:05:07 +1000
Subject: Strange return value from os.system(...) call 
In-Reply-To: <416CA479.9010707@optonline.net> 
References: <416CA479.9010707@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <20041013040507.1A5C83C24C@coffee.object-craft.com.au>

>I have a shell script that exits out with either a 0 or 1...and am 
>experiencing a strange phenomenon...
>
>somevalue=os.system("/path/to/script")
>print "somevalue:"+str(somevalue)
>
>If my script exits with 0, somevalue is 0
>...if it exits with 1, somevalue is 256

You probably want to read:

    http://python.org/doc/2.3.4/lib/os-process.html

You'll want to use something like:

    if os.WIFEXITED(status):
        print 'exited with status %d' % os.WEXITSTATUS(status)

-- 
Andrew McNamara, Senior Developer, Object Craft
http://www.object-craft.com.au/


From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Wed Oct  6 10:20:52 2004
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:20:52 -0300
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <1gl8nji.c9swnaj31o85N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<864d3709041003152471cf26fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4389.1097014212.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8nji.c9swnaj31o85N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041006142052.GB4479@burma.localdomain>

Hello Alex!

> > Of course, in your example, not using the 'i=i' trick would be a
> > problem, since the 'i' variable is lost, and inside the method a
> > global is looked for, creating an error.
>
> True, the opcode for i is indeed a LOAD_GLOBAL.  Why _that_ should be
> the case is anything but an 'of course' to _me_, though, as we just

Sorry, my intention was to say that removing "i=i" would be
clearly a problem, not that the whole issue was clear.

> showed that i is a +local+.  newmethod is not seen as a nested function
> of the anonymous function built from the codeobject's that's the
> classbody.  I _think_ there's some adhoccery in the Python compiler (not
> the easiest part of Python to read and understand, so I apologize for
> any potential confusion here) to specifically ensure that -- I guess
> it's for backwards compatibility with old Python versions which didn't
> have nested scopes, otherwise any barename in a method would refer first

In this case, the external closure must be the global scope, otherwise,
code like this:

class C:
    var = 1
    def method(self):
      print var

Would show self.__class__.var, when it shouldn't.

> to the classbody (acting as its 'outer function') which could shadow
> globals.  A bit confusing for an "of course", nevertheless;-).

Again, I'm sorry. My "of course" should be more closely related to the
fact that removing "i=i" would be a problem, as was my original
intention.  Even if the internal 'i' was bound to a closure, as you
seem to belive would be the expected behavior, the OP's code would end
up doing the wrong thing.

Here is an example:

>>> def func():
...   l = []
...   for i in range(10):
...     def subfunc():
...       print i
...     l.append(subfunc)
...   return l
...
>>> for subfunc in func():
...   subfunc()
...
9
9
9
9
[...]

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net


From mcherm at mcherm.com  Mon Oct 18 14:21:29 2004
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 11:21:29 -0700
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<-JSdna307N6Pqe7cRVn-qQ@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <1c339f13.0410181021.4041daa2@posting.google.com>

Istvan comments:
>  > "as long as the components of the path are valid Python identifiers,
>  > there is a more convenient attribute syntax available:"
> 
> This means that some features can only be used if the parameter
> names are valid python identifiers, right? When I put it that way,
> it is a bit less attractive.

I'm afraid that I can't take credit for the idea of using attribute
syntax for accessing config values... it was Guido's suggestion in
the first place. But I'm not interested in an "appeal to authority"
argument here -- I think I can provide a good argument for why the
attribute syntax is a good idea (so long as there is a different
syntax available also for use with possible non-identifiers).

Code that accesses configuration values usually uses a constant for
the "key". In other words, you often look up "config.get('my_app.maxRows')",
but rarely something like "config.get('my_app.%s' % some_var)".
Furthermore, the keys themselves are rarely determined by external
forces... the programmer is usually free to select whatever name she
likes. Because of this, it is (almost always) quite easy to ensure that
only valid identifiers are used. With little downside, the convenience
to the programmer of typing "config.my_app.maxRows" rather than 
"config.values['my_app.maxRows']" or "config.get('my_app.maxRows') is
worth considering.

Of course, there are still a few issues. One is explicitness... it's
unwise to have too much "magic". On the other hand, the more common
something becomes the more it becomes an idiom in its own right, and
having a somewhat "magical" syntax is more acceptable. For instance,
something like "dup_list = a_list[:]" looks like some kind of peculiar
smiley the first time any user sees it, but once you're used to it
you instantly recognize it as the Python idiom for making a copy.
(Although the new idiom: "dup_list = list(a_list)" is probably better.)
Features like logging and configuration which are ubiquitous are good
canidates for "convenience syntax".

And the other issue is that SOMETIMES one DOES use arbitrary strings
within config files. It isn't always a good idea to tell users to enter
something like "my_app.<name-of-the-server>.numConnections", but when
you DO something like this the server could be named "def", or "44832"
or even something truly dangerous like u"xp\u01a9" or "". So there
MUST be some OTHER means of accessing values in addition to the
attribute syntax so that arbitrary values can be passed.

Anyway... I certainly think that the matter is less than clear-cut, but
in my opinion, this is one of those areas where it's worth having a
little well-bounded "magic" to make the code that much more readable.

-- Michael Chermside


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Oct 25 13:06:50 2004
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 13:06:50 -0400
Subject: Some more notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
	<QPmdndr7xOOG-efcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca> <ur7np9og4.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<VNGdnYlbv67QLObcRVn-sQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <upt36buc5.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Have you verified that those calls would *not* accept
> something like "\\machine/share/path/file"?

Nope.  Actually, I don't think that was even applicable since the call
I'm recalling took a UNC machine name but not a full path, so the only
thing in the parameter was the machine portion.  Although maybe it did
include the share level.

> If they accept this, then I would simply argue that the \\machine
> part has nothing to do with a path, other than the accident
> of sharing (but doubling) the backslash that we're used to
> in Windows paths.  It's a machine name, not a path, similar to
> how C: is a drive name, not a path, and therefore needs special
> handling.

I suppose, but I certainly saw UNC as a logical extension of path
semantics to cross the network boundary (and imagine that the choice
of \\ was logically consistent with that approach).  It was a way to
layer a level "above the root" of the filesystem into a path naming
convention.

> After all, you don't expect to be able to use C/ instead of C:,
> and I don't think one should necessarily expect //machine to
> work instead of \\machine.

Well, we clearly expect different things, which is fine, and shows the
variety in the universe :-)

At least for me, knowing that the API permitted me to use
"/path/to/file.ext" instead of "\path\to\file.ext" made it seem
logical it would permit "//machine/share/path/file.ext" for
"\\machine\share\path\file.ext".  Or at least desirable.

> This is mostly supposition/theory/wild hand-waving, however.
> I don't know the reality.  If you post a few of the APIs that
> you mention, I can try to disprove my theory.

I'll see if I can find at least one again and forward it over.  I seem
to recall it was while using some of the win32net wrapped APIs to
interrogate things on a remote server.

But I'm also willing to just agree that it only impacts the machine
spec and that you could consider that distinct from any path
operation.  I was really just qualifying the general comment about
Win32 accepting forward slashes in all system calls.

-- David


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 27 02:58:39 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:58:39 +0200
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <mailman.5538.1098846078.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clngtp$tat$02$1@news.t-online.com>

kartik vaddadi wrote:

>> Overflow errors are not automated tests.
> 
> why not? they detect bugs.

According to that logic your users will be automated tests, too...

Peter
 



From me at here.there.nowhere  Wed Oct  6 10:25:16 2004
From: me at here.there.nowhere (=?UTF-8?B?0JTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCT0LXQvtGA0LPQuNC10LLRgdC60Lg=?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:25:16 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<WOQ8d.32865$Z14.12045@news.indigo.ie>
	<slrncm7rmf.h60.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <4164004c@news.mt.net.mk>

>>  Reading the above, one might be tempted to conclude that presence of the
>>  GIL in the cpython VM is actually a benefit, and perhaps that all
>>  language interpreters should have one!

> Linux is aiming at the future when everyone has 4 or 8
> cores/hyperthreads and I think that is the right decision.  Fine
> grained locking will come to python one day I'm sure.

One of the biggest problems with the GIL for me iswhen Python is embeded
inside some multi-threaded program, like for example inside Apache2 with
the "worker MPM"  (a multithreaded apache process model).

But since some operations release the GIL, maybe its not a big issue even
then.

-- 
??????

              To boldly go where I surely don't belong.


From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Thu Oct 14 08:53:54 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:53:54 -0400
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cklst2$tsp$1@sea.gmane.org>

Maboroshi wrote:

> Hello
> 
> My question has to do with python and linux - I was interested in
> finding out what it would take to reimplement the Linux Kernel in python
> basically just taking the source code from linux and rewriting it in
> python Would this idea make sense to do - if so what would be the
> benefits of doing this and in what way would this not be a good idea
> 
> Cheers

Yeah, that's a great idea.  Go for it.  Let me know when you're done.




From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Thu Oct 14 20:03:09 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 00:03:09 GMT
Subject: Email problem
Message-ID: <20041014200309.17374.00001877@mb-m27.aol.com>

Ok, I'm putting my email message together this way:
for x in M.retr(i)[1]:
            stringMail += x
            stringMail += '\n'
        inMail = email.message_from_string(stringMail)
What I'm finding is in the html part of the message '='s are added to the end
of lines that don't end in a tag which is completely messing up the display in
my WxHTMLWindow I use to display messages.  Any thoughts?


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 23:37:24 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 23:37:24 -0400
Subject: very small python smtpish send
Message-ID: <ck7mdn$n2i$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Anyone know of a small Python script that acts as a slimmed down smtp 
server (just sends from the local machine)? I currently use a smtp 
server for sending email reports from machines, but as machines travel 
outside of our lan, the smtp server refuses to relay their messages. So, 
I thought it would be better if each machine had its own little mail 
sender this way, it could continue reporting no matter where it was located.

These are all Windows machines... is there a Windows equivalent to 
'stdin | mail -s "Subject" email at email.com' that comes on most Unix 
machines?


From nun at example.com  Thu Oct 21 08:40:24 2004
From: nun at example.com (Mitja)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:40:24 +0200
Subject: excluding search string in regular expressions
References: <pc7fn0l6i0nso8onn0kh6gvt6o3sug4sd0@4ax.com>
	<fc8fn010l31ae6fqoh0ssj0f40beekafug@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <H3Odd.4622$F6.1272762@news.siol.net>

Franz Steinhaeusler wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:36:46 +0200, Franz Steinhaeusler
> <franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at> wrote:
>
>>
>> single characters with [^ab] but I need not(ab)
>>
>> not_this_brace_pattern(\*\*/\n).*::
>
> Sorry,
> is this the solution (simple concatenating
> [^*][^*][^/]\n.*:: ?

That should do, though it's admittedly far from elegant; I, too, would like to see a nicer solution.

> The background:
> I want to scan cpp file, whether the have a doxygen
> comment already: It should find all postitions, where
> this is missing:
>
> ok
>
> doxygen comment
> **/
> void CBs::InitButtonPanel (int progn1, int progn2)

In this case, I'd replace \n with \w*, meaning any amount of whitespace.




From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Oct  5 15:15:50 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:15:50 +0200
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
In-Reply-To: <10m5r2gd2u38898@corp.supernews.com>
References: <20041004215641.266008304.whereU@now.com>
	<mailman.4354.1096992685.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10m5r2gd2u38898@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4162f2c1$0$202$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> Russell Nelson wrote:

> ISTM that these 
> elaborate Mandis-quote schemes may significantly reduce the odds of 
> needing to escape a string literal, but the cost (in clarity, 
> transparency, and most importantly, ability to manipulate your code in 
> anything other than an advanced, complying editor) is pretty high.  I 
> find '''triple quotes''' a lot easier to understand/explain than this 
> scheme of defining arbitrary delimiters.

In fact, the triple quotes are just special cases of the Mandis quotes, 
and would still be legal. No?


'''Hello world'''

'x'Hello world'x'

'4242424242'Hello world'4242424242'

same difference

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From holbertr at dma.org  Fri Oct 29 09:18:11 2004
From: holbertr at dma.org (Rick Holbert)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:18:11 -0400
Subject: String to Hex
References: <6f402501.0410270242.521c6ab2@posting.google.com>
	<closr5$4vs$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
	<6f402501.0410282342.59a95776@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cltfuo$j42$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

Interesting!

Here are the results from my Linux Workstation (Mandrake 10.1 on Intel):

Python 2.3.4 (#2, Aug 19 2004, 15:49:40)
[GCC 3.4.1 (Mandrakelinux (Alpha 3.4.1-3mdk)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> long(float('-0x55aff8080000'))
-94214268911616L

Here are the results from my school's Solaris Server (Solaris 8 on Sparc):

Python 2.3.4 (#1, Sep 24 2004, 17:33:58)
[GCC 3.0.4] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> long(float('-0x55aff8080000'))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: invalid literal for float(): -0x55aff8080000

Also, here are the results from Jython on the same server:

Jython 2.1 on java1.4.0_01 (JIT: null)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> long(float('-0x55aff8080000'))
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: invalid literal for __float__: -0x55aff8080000


Michael Foord wrote:

> Rick Holbert <holbertr at dma.org> wrote in message
> news:<closr5$4vs$1 at charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>...
>> The following look like they will work on Python 2.3.4:
>> 
>> long(float('-0x55aff8080000'))
> 
>>>> long(float('-0x55aff8080000'))
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#1>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     long(float('-0x55aff8080000'))
> ValueError: invalid literal for float(): -0x55aff8080000
>>>> 
> 
> It was this error that surprised me......
> 
>> int(float('-0x55aff8080000'))
>> eval('-0x55aff8080000')
> 
> eval doesn't get round the problem at all....
>>>> eval('0xffffffff')
> <string>:0: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return
> positive values in Python 2.4 and up
> -1
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Fuzzy
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
> 
>> 
>> Some programmers frown upon the use of eval(), so use it at your own
>> risk.
>> 
>> Comments?
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>> Michael Foord wrote:
>> 
>> > How do you safely turn an arbitrarily long signed hex string into a
>> > long integer ?
>> > e.g. -0x55aff8080000
>> > 
>> > When treating them as hex literals I'm getting future warnings that
>> > from 2.4 hex values greater than sys.maxint will always return
>> > positive values. I've had to treat them as strings and write a
>> > function to turn them into longs a character at a time ! I couldn't
>> > find a built in function that would do this for me.
>> > 
>> > Regards,
>> > 
>> > Fuzzy
>> > 
>> > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct  6 11:12:28 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 08:12:28 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <tyfy8ikb88x.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <mailman.4358.1096995671.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfy8ikb88x.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <20041006081125.ED03.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


On 06 Oct 2004 09:45:02 +0200
Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

> 
> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> writes:
> 
> > On the other hand, no one in the Python world really describes
> > instance.method() as passing a message to 'instance' with the value of
> > 'method'.
> 
> This is not true.
> 
> Proof by counterexample:  I sometimes do.

All right, then I will make the claim that it is not Pythonic to do so,
because I have never heard Guido do such a thing.

 - Josiah



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  9 02:44:40 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:44:40 +0200
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted
	Data	Chunk Efficiently
References: <ba1e306f.0410050212.3b592313@posting.google.com>
	<2sgc66F1enc5nU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<ba1e306f.0410071919.7defa4a9@posting.google.com>
	<7xhdp5c206.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.4546.1097207828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glc4z2.kc2j86lfi22oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<20041008083137.ED79.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4587.1097250763.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<r41fm0pgqosr0b6gpugv84ii3ctthmi2gm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1glds9c.11xmu5xsklxbzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:52:37 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
> 
> > Hmmmm -- I could be wrong, but doesn't MySql _use_ bsddb as its lower
> > level at least for some kinds of tables?  Yet (for simple query) the
> > vox populi has it "faster" than "real dbms"s... just wondering aloud...
> >
>       The default table is "MyISAM". BSDDB and INNO have to be
> explicitly requested (and built into the executable, in some cases)

Ah, I see, thanks -- so, performance relationships between these remain
unclear...


Alex


From newspost at lolmc.com  Wed Oct 20 06:01:18 2004
From: newspost at lolmc.com (Lol McBride)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:01:18 +0100
Subject: testing for uniquness in a large list
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.20.10.01.17.525999@lolmc.com>

Hi All,
I'm looking for some help in developing a way to test for the uniqueness
of an item in a large list.To illustrate what I mean the code below is an
indicator of what I want to do but I'm hoping for a faster way than the
one shown.Basically,I have a list of 20 integers and I want to create
another list of 200000 unique subsets of 12 integers from this list.WhatI
have done here is to use the sample()function from the random module
and then compare the result to every item in the ints list to check for
uniqueness - as you can guess this takes an interminable amount of time to
grind through.Can someone please enlighten me as to how I can do this and
keep the amount of time to do it to a minimum?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and doubly so if you're able to
help.
Cheers,
Lol McBride

#!/usr/bin/python
from random import *
#seq is the pool to choose from
seq = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20]
# this is how many times to choose a unique selection
rlen = 200000
counter = 100
ints = [0]
while 1:
    # if this is the last value for rlen then we stop
    if rlen == 0:
	break
    intLen = len(ints)
    cnt = 0
    testVal = sample(seq,12)
    testVal.sort()
    if len(ints)>=counter:
	print len(ints)
	counter = counter+100
    while 1:
	if ints.count(testVal)==1:
            cnt = cnt+1
	    break
	intLen = intLen -1
	if intLen == 0:
	    break
	if cnt == 1:
		continue
	else:
	    ints.append(testVal)
	rlen = rlen -1



From grante at visi.com  Thu Oct 14 17:11:16 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 21:11:16 GMT
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4920.1097716237.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4958.1097771160.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416eeb74$0$23209$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-14, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

> As for C being a natural choice as far as the kernel part is
> concerned... it may be because it compiles to efficient code,
> or because it facilitates integration with assembler, or
> because it can efficiently uses registers...

All of those. 

> Who knows? But the main reason is probably simple: it's
> because everyone is just used to it.

Exactly.  Any number of "low level", statically typed,
compiled, languages would work equally as well.  Modula-2 (not
sure about M-3, the GC stuff maybe a bit iffy in a kernel),
Ada, BLISS, PL/I, Pascal, etc.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I feel like I'm
                                  at               in a Toilet Bowl with a
                               visi.com            thumbtack in my forehead!!


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct 19 20:11:43 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:11:43 -0400
Subject: Returning from socket.accept and threading issues.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5189.1098211519.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5189.1098211519.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl4af4$fp3$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Christopher J. Bottaro wrote:
> I'm trying to write a fairly simple network program.  The main thread spawns
> a thread which creates a listener socket and then calls socket.accept on
> it.  socket.accept blocks indefinantly.  My problem is that when the main
> thread determines that it is time to quit, how do I get the spawned thread
> to exit?  Preferably I'd like the spawned thread to return from
> socket.accept when the main thread tells it to and then check a shared
> varible to determine if it should die or call socket.accept again.
> 
> Any advice on this stuff would be greatly appreciated.

Would calling setDaemon() on the child threads not be sufficient?

(I'm unsure of the capitalization of that... check the docs or use
dir() to confirm what it's called.)

-Peter


From andre.roberge at ns.sympatico.ca  Wed Oct 13 12:20:54 2004
From: andre.roberge at ns.sympatico.ca (Andr? Roberge)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 09:20:54 -0700
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f06d8508.0410130820.1a5c08e1@posting.google.com>

I suggest you have a look at the following:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/252237

I believe it does what you want (and has little to do with the
follow-up discussion so far!)

Andre Roberge

dataangel <k04jg02 at kzoo.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> I wrote a function to compare whether two strings are "similar" because 
> I'm using python to make a small text adventure engine and I want to it 
> to be responsive to slight mispellings, like "inevtory" and the like. To 
> save time the first thing my function does is check if I'm comparing an 
> empty vs. a non-empty string, because they are to be never considered 
> similar. Right now I have to write out the check like this:
> 
>     if str1 and str2:
>         if not str1 or not str2:
>             return 0
> 
> Because python won't let me do str1 ^ str2. Why does this only work for 
> numbers? Just treat empty strings as 0 and nonempty as 1.
> 
> Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for detecting if 
> two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for strings shouldn't be 
> supported. Am I missing something? Inparticular, I think it'd be cool to 
> have "xor" as opposed to "^". The carrot would return the resulting 
> value, while "xor" would act like and/or do and return the one that was 
> true (if any).


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 01:28:18 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 01:28:18 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <oCp8d.3160$M05.353@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Pvo8d.3016$UP1.1217@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4293.1096947506.5135.python-list@python.org>	<KUo8d.3033$UP1.1475@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4303.1096948810.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<oCp8d.3160$M05.353@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <416230F2.6040904@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
> To follow up, now that someone answered all your questions
> are you any more knowledgeable about Python?  I suspect
> not because those answers don't hang together coherently
> so you'll need to read the documentation anyway.
>
>                 Andrew
>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com

It gave me a good idea of whether I should use it or not.  Green and Red 
lights did the trick.


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Oct  5 10:20:20 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Python)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:20:20 -0400
Subject: Miscellaneous personal prejudices (was: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL!
	- weekly Python news and links (Oct 4))
References: <cjsh6t$m6u$1@lairds.us> <36i932-lr5.ln1@lairds.us>
	<1tudnWqDWMKcpf_cRVn-qg@rogers.com>
	<du7y8il4ntg.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <TeKdnac_dM00MP_cRVn-vw@rogers.com>

Done

"Ville Vainio" <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message 
news:du7y8il4ntg.fsf at lehtori.cc.tut.fi...
>>>>>> "Dan" == Dan Perl <danperl at rogers.com> writes:
>
>    Dan> "What do I have to say to get into the QOTW?"
>
> Change your last name?
>
> -- 
> Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb 




From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Oct 22 04:43:43 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:43:43 +0200
Subject: Include pysqlite2 into Python 2.5?
In-Reply-To: <Z7mdnc7-u7hi9eXcRVn-ug@adelphia.com>
References: <mailman.5254.1098346524.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Z7mdnc7-u7hi9eXcRVn-ug@adelphia.com>
Message-ID: <20041022084343.GA18573@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 09:57:19PM -0400, Robert wrote:
> Do we really have to wait unitil Python 2.5 to get it?  ;-)

It's too late for Python 2.4, which is in beta stage now. Also,
PySQLite 2.0, the one we're talking about here, is still pre-alpha.

-- Gerhard
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From mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 24 12:20:45 2004
From: mesteve_bpleaseremovethis at hotmail.com (StvB)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:20:45 GMT
Subject: Passing an event handler through a list
Message-ID: <xDQed.18197$nj.5597@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

Hi, I'm now trying to separate my wxPython GUI-building code into different 
files,
  and ran into a bump:

In main.py, I add an event handler to a list:
----------------------
  # -- add the event handler to  list
  lstEvtHandler.append(self.OnNodeChanged)

 # -- call the function in the other py file
 GUI_Function.AddItemsToSizer(self, self.leftSizer, \
              self.MyLeftPanel, lstEvtHandler )


In GUI_Function.py,
---------------------
from   wxPython.wx import *

def AddItemsToSizer(self, sizer, panel, *evtHandlerList ):

#  .. create a tree, put a newId into treeID,

    EVT_TREE_SEL_CHANGED(self.tree, treeID, evtHandlerList[0])

What I get here is:
   TypeError: Expected callable object or None.


Can you pass a handler in this way?

 




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct 25 19:49:06 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:49:06 -0700
Subject: Unqualified global vars, how?
In-Reply-To: <20041025131103.0B1D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <cljm88$ter$1@sea.gmane.org> <20041025131103.0B1D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041025164810.0B25.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> C:\Temp>cat > Globals.py
> class GV:
>   val = 0
>     def __iadd__(self, arg):
>         self.val += arg
>         return self
>     def __repr__(self):
>         return repr(self.val)

Hrm, it doesn't look like the spacing was preserved, and it looks like
this caught my original val=0 version (and not my later val=1 version
that mirrors yours).

 - Josiah



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Oct 25 11:56:43 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:56:43 +0200
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <20041025155643.GA709@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Mon, Oct 25, 2004 at 03:46:31PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-10-25, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> > Grant Edwards wrote:
> >
> >> Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
> >> in site-packages) in an application.
> >
> > I'd say everything that uses a GPL'd module is derived work
> > and must also be GPL'd. It doesn't matter how you distribute
> > it.
> 
> So my application code must be GPL'd even if I never distribute
> the module?  The mere act of inserting the line 
> 
> "import someGPLdmodule"
> 
> Makes my _source_code_ a derived work, and therefore must be
> GPL'd?  That just doesn't sound right.

The GPL only applies if you distribute your work (outside your
organization).

It would probably be a smart move to just *ask* the author of the
module if it's ok with him what you're planning to do. Only if the two
of you disagree, then you need to worry about the legal cra^w
questions.

Gerhard
-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct 12 05:09:36 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:09:36 +0200
Subject: documentation files - where to install ?
References: <2t1kf1F1r2ehtU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ckg6vt$qhb$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Helmut Jarausch wrote:

> So, what's the canonical installation location for the HTML documentation
> files (if I don't want to use the environment variable PYTHONDOCS)

Here's where Python 2.3 looks for the documentation:

<pydoc.py excerpt>
        homedir = os.environ.get('PYTHONHOME')
        for dir in [os.environ.get('PYTHONDOCS'),
                    homedir and os.path.join(homedir, 'doc'),
                    os.path.join(execdir, 'doc'),
                    '/usr/doc/python-docs-' + split(sys.version)[0],
                    '/usr/doc/python-' + split(sys.version)[0],
                    '/usr/doc/python-docs-' + sys.version[:3],
                    '/usr/doc/python-' + sys.version[:3],
                    os.path.join(sys.prefix,
'Resources/English.lproj/Documentation')]:
            if dir and os.path.isdir(os.path.join(dir, 'lib')):
                self.docdir = dir
</pydoc.py excerpt>

I've got the impression there may be a 'break' missing.

Peter



From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Wed Oct  6 13:53:20 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 13:53:20 -0400
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <G-2dnQt9KayNrPncRVn-hQ@giganews.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Ruby has this convention and it seems to work wonderfully well for them.

I have used Ruby before switching to Python and I found
the ! symbol to be quite unhelpful. I don't recall the
exact syntax properly, what I remember is  having something like

line.strip()

returning the stripped line while

line.strip!()

stripping the line in place.

What this meant that there were a bunch of methods now
with two distinct behaviors. The possibilities to foul up just
doubled. Basically I found myself sticking to one behavior
and using that consistently so that I did not have to
make an extra effort to double check the symbol at the end.

I find it much simpler if there is only one behavior, it either mutates
the input or it doesn't, one that makes the most sense
(as it is usually with python).

Istvan.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 28 13:58:13 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:58:13 -0700
Subject: Directly calling threaded class instance methods and attributes
In-Reply-To: <4d79c4d9.0410280228.53f9a328@posting.google.com>
References: <4d79c4d9.0410280228.53f9a328@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041028100144.0B97.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


lights at cix.co.uk (Matthew Bell) wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've got a question about whether there are any issues with directly 
> calling attributes and/or methods of a threaded class instance.  I
> wonder if someone could give me some advice on this.

No problem.

[Snip code and text]

> If anyone could let me know either "Yeah, that's fine" or "NO!!! That
> can break <foo> / cause a deadlock in <bar> / etc!!!" I'd be much 
> obliged.

With what you offered, it would not cause a deadlock, though it would
cause what is known as a race condition, where two threads are trying to
modify the same variable at the same time.  Note that attributes of a
thread object are merely attributes of an arbitrary Python object, so
nothing special happens with them.


Here is a far more telling example...
>>> import threading
>>> val = 0
>>> def foo(n):
...     global val
...     for i in xrange(n):
...         val += 1
...
>>> for i in xrange(10):
...     threading.Thread(target=foo, args=(100000,)).start()
...
>>> #wait a few seconds...
... 
>>> val
202229
>>>

If there were no race condition, that value should be 1000000.  Let us
use locks to fix it.

>>> val2 = 0
>>> lock = threading.Lock()
>>> def goo(n):
...     global val2, lock
...     for i in xrange(n):
...         lock.acquire()
...         val2 += 1
...         lock.release()
...
>>> for i in xrange(10):
...     threading.Thread(target=goo, args=(100000,)).start()
...
>>> #wait...
...
>>> val2
1000000


 - Josiah



From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 11 00:24:28 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 04:24:28 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.10.16.48.24.930075@jerf.org>
	<4169982d.4238722751@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.10.19.48.01.604089@jerf.org>
	<4169c7ad.4250882926@news.oz.net>
	<pan.2004.10.11.00.12.36.26295@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <416a0afc$0$5686$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-11, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:

> With respect, this isn't something to doubt or not doubt.
> There is one, and only one, way to represent any positive
> number in base two, since encoding sign is not an issue.
> Assuming an extra bit to show sign, there is one and only one
> way to represent any negative number, too.

That's news to me.  I've used three different base-2
representations for negative numbers in the past week, and I
can think of at least one other one I've used in the past.

> (Zero gets to be the exception since then you can have
> positive and negative zero,

That depends on which base-2 representation you've chosen. In
two's compiliment and excess-N representations, there is only
one zero value.  In signed-magnitude there may be two.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I've been WRITING
                                  at               to SOPHIA LOREN every 45
                               visi.com            MINUTES since JANUARY 1ST!!


From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Tue Oct 26 18:23:50 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:23:50 +0200
Subject: speed up mp3
References: <mailman.5527.1098823236.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <417ece78$0$769$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>

Dmitry wrote:

> You cannot directly play sound at the sample rate you want. Soundcards
supports only fixed sample rates.
> Here is the example that works with resampler:
> ( from aplayer.py )
> -------
>       print 'Opening sound with %d channels -> %s' % ( r.channels, snds[
card ][ 'name' ] )
>       snd= sound.Output( int(r.sample_rate*1.5), r.channels,
sound.AFMT_S16_LE, card )

on the contrary
If you look at my adjusted sample of aplayer.py you will see that I mutiply
the r.sample_rate and with me it works just fine for playback. not for
resampling though.

Ivo.

> Unfortunately there is a bug in current resample() which makes holes in
the sound. I have fixed that and it will be in release 1.2.3.0 next week.
> Dmitry/

That's great




From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct 27 10:58:54 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 14:58:54 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <mailman.5538.1098846078.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clngtp$tat$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <417fb7ae$0$71146$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-27, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> kartik vaddadi wrote:
>
>>> Overflow errors are not automated tests.
>> 
>> why not? they detect bugs.
>
> According to that logic your users will be automated tests, too...

Finally, somebody who understands the way "real programmers"
work.  ;)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm ZIPPY the PINHEAD
                                  at               and I'm totally committed
                               visi.com            to the festive mode.


From john3gz at bestwebz.net  Sun Oct 10 23:09:05 2004
From: john3gz at bestwebz.net (John M. Gabriele)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:09:05 -0400
Subject: help explaining default function arg weirdness
Message-ID: <10mjuanpuf19h7e@corp.supernews.com>

This is almost straight out of the Python tutorial,
section 4.7.1

------------------------code ---------------------
#!/usr/bin/python

def func( append_this, default_list=[] ):
     default_list.append( append_this )
     return default_list

print func( "foo" )
print func( "bar" )
print func( "baz" )
------------------------/code-----------------

And running it gives me this:

['foo']
['foo', 'bar']
['foo', 'bar', 'baz']

which looks wrong to me. The explanation in the tutorial
says "The default value is evaluated only once. This makes a
difference when the default is a mutable object such as a
list, dictionary, or instances of most classes."

I don't get it: isn't default_list a local to func()?
Doesn't it get created/destroyed with each call to func()
so we'd get a fresh empty one with each function call?

What's the rationale for having the function remember
default_list across calls?

Thanks,
---J

-- 
--- remove zees if contacting via email ---


From mark.asbach at post.rwth-aachen.de  Tue Oct 19 05:55:18 2004
From: mark.asbach at post.rwth-aachen.de (Mark Asbach)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:55:18 +0200
Subject: reverse Jython
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1glwjc5.1n573ij1sh2nhiN%mark.asbach@post.rwth-aachen.de>

Hi Maurice

> I am wondering if it is worth reversing this, that is, a Java interpreter
> implemented in Python?

Why?

Jython makes sense because you free Python usage from C compilation and
platform issues (regarding extension modules) while still providing
acceptable runtime performance.

The other way round would not cure or help anything.

If you need an interesting topic: why not write a just-in-time compiler
for Python? 

There's already some interesting stuff in module "weave" and the pythonc
from Jython, but having a python interpreter use (say) gcc at runtime to
convert and probably optimize Python code to natively executable
binaries, you could speed up Python to the max.

Just my 2 cents,

Mark


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 04:59:04 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:59:04 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <mailman.4286.1096945096.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ad052e5c.0410050043.29fb9550@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gl6jjs.q066das7wbpvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dan Bishop <danb_83 at yahoo.com> wrote:
   ...
> Most of your questions are answered at http://docs.python.org/

Yep, but some of the answers are debatable.  E.g.:

> > 3. Function nesting with proper lexical scope (i.e. closures)
> 
> Yes.

...but no rebinding in outer-scope, which to some people (not functional
programmers, obviously;-) means it ain't "proper".


> > 4. Operator overloading (inc. the ability to define new operators)
> 
> Yes.  This is done by defining the special methods __add__, __mul__,

...which doesn't let you define NEW operators, just the code that runs
when known operators are applied to objects of a certain user-coded
type.  To define new operators, look instead for example to Haskell.
(I've never seen "operator overloading" used to describe "define new
operators", they're really totally distinct language features).


Alex


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sat Oct  2 02:59:50 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 07:59:50 +0100
Subject: A newbie in more need....
In-Reply-To: <9c3edc58.0410012126.7503511c@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4164.1096606649.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<9c3edc58.0410012126.7503511c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cjljlc$3hj$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Chris Patton wrote:

> The question being asked is why I would want a bunch of identical
> classes with different names. The classes will changed by certain
> circumstances created by the program.

That doesn't really describe what's going on. Why don't you tell us why 
this is needed (as opposed to one of the other solutions) in the context 
of what the program actually does, instead of abstracting it?

> You should also no that not only am I new to Python, I am fairly new
 > to programming as well.

I don't want to dissuade you from posting here, but you might find the 
Python tutor list helpful if you want a very gentle approach:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Thu Oct 14 06:57:31 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:57:31 +0200
Subject: Psycopg and queries with UTF-8 data
References: <ckliod$8ot$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl>
Message-ID: <cklm2q$gc0$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Alban Hertroys wrote:

> I have a query that inserts data originating from an utf-8 encoded XML
> file. And guess what, it contains utf-8 encoded characters...
> Now my problem is that psycopg will only accept queries of type str, so
> how do I get my utf-8 encoded data into the DB?

This sounds like the usual unicode/utf-8 confusion: unicode is an abstract
specification of characters, utf-8 as well as latin1 and ascii are
encodings of that specification that allow for certain characters to be
used - namely, ascii for only well-known first 127, latin1 for some major
european languages, and utf-8 defines escapes for all possible characters
defined in unicode - with the result that some of the characters aren't one
byte per character anymore.

So unicode objects encapsulate abstract unicode character sequence - however
they accomplish that is not of your concern. strings on the opposite, are
pure byte sequences - and common libs work with them, with the exception of
the usually unicode aware xml libs. So to yield a string from an unicode
object, one has to specify an encoding - like utf-8 or latin1. Now having a
character in that unicode object that can't be encoded using the specified
encoding, that will produce an error.


Please do read a tutorial on unicode and python - there are several good
ones out there, use google to your advantage.

> 
> I can't do query.encode('ascii'), that would be similar to:
>  >>> x = u'\xc8'
>  >>> print x.encode('ascii')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xc8' in
> position 0: ordinal not in range(128)

Sure- xC8 > 127, so it can't be encoded. Do this:

>>> x = u'\xc8'
>>> x
u'\xc8'
>>> x.encode('utf-8')
'\xc3\x88'

As you can see, the formerly one byte long character becomes two bytes. The
reason is that on unicode character is translated to that 2-byte sequence
using utf-8. 

> I also tried setting PostgreSQL's client-encoding by executing "SET
> client_encoding TO 'utf-8'", but psycopg still only accepts str-type
> strings (which is not really surprising).

Confusion again - please repeat: 

unicode is not utf-8!!!
unicode is not utf-8!!!
unicode is not utf-8!!!
unicode is not utf-8!!!

Do encode the unicode object in utf-8, and pass that to the psycopg. If you
set client_encoding to latin1, you have to encode unicod to that.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From vineeth at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 01:09:05 2004
From: vineeth at gmail.com (Vineeth S)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 22:09:05 -0700
Subject: cgi long running jobs
References: <383854e0.0410030601.59ddfd34@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.10.04.14.38.43.605384@thomas-guettler.de>
	<383854e0.0410120153.2fcc5424@posting.google.com>
	<6f402501.0410120646.4f4b04d7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <383854e0.0410132109.179a8f81@posting.google.com>

fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord) wrote in message news:<6f402501.0410120646.4f4b04d7 at posting.google.com>...
> vineeth at gmail.com (Vineeth S) wrote in message news:<383854e0.0410120153.2fcc5424 at posting.google.com>...
> > Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.04.14.38.43.605384 at thomas-guettler.de>...

> > > > Going by that reasoning, I tried a fork-exec to run the long job, and
> > > > periodically check for completion from the parent. This does not work
> > > > either, and this has foxed me. Is it because fork-exec in the cgi
> > > > context has some other behaviour ?
> > > 
> > > What kind of session-management do you use?
> > > 
> > 
> > I did not understand what exactly you meant by session-management.
> > 
> 
> How do you save the state of each process in between accesses.
> The answer is probably that you aren't doing any. If you follow my
> suggestion you will have to 'save the state' of your process part way
> through for it to pick up in the next request. You will then have to
> work out some way of dealing with saved stuff that never gets
> completed - this is all 'session management'.
> 

Ah. (hit self on head), when the process takes off, it keeps writing
its results to a tmp file which is identified on the basis of the pid
that took off, and the session state is managed through this pid.

> Regards,
> 
> 
> Fuzzy
> 
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html
> 

Thanks
Vineeth
> 
> > > HTH,
> > >  Thomas
> > 
> > Thanks and regards
> > Vineeth


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 15 13:21:44 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:21:44 +0200
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
References: <mailman.5015.1097859379.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckp0vj$r1g$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Donnal Walter wrote:

> The following method is defined in one of my classes:
> 
>      def setup(self, items={}):
>          """perform setup based on a dictionary of items"""
>          if 'something' in items:
>              value = items['something']
>              # now do something with value
>          if 'another' in items:
>              value = items['another']
>              # do something else with value
>          if 'spam' in items:
>              value = items['spam']
>              # do yet another thing with value
>          if 'eggs' in items:
>              value = items['eggs']
>              # and so on
> 
> Any suggestion?

First of all, don't use {} as default value for items. Many have stepped
into this trap: While perfectly legal, it will be evaluated only once, when
the method setup is found the first time. So then an instance of a dict is
created. But now if subsequent calls to setup alter that dict items points
to, they all share the same dict!! This small example illustrates that
behaviour:

def foo(key, bar={}):
    bar[key] = key
    print bar

for i in xrange(3):
    foo(i)

yields:

{1:1}
{1:1, 2:2}

where you surely have expected {2:2} in the second case. So the idiom for
this commonly is this:

def foo(key, bar=None):
    if bar is None:
       bar = {} # remember: bar is a local name, bound to a value - so next
time, bar will still be none if foo is called w/o bar as parameter
    bar[key] = key

Now to your question: This works:

for k in ['something', 'another', 'spam', 'eggs']:
    if items.has_key(k):
        value = items[k]
        break


-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 30 11:10:02 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:10:02 -0400
Subject: Regex speed
In-Reply-To: <2uhjgnF29251cU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<DiEgd.6304$kM.2345@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<2uh4g5F29ntaoU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<w4mdnc7RG8C9Dx7cRVn-gA@powergate.ca>
	<2uhjgnF29251cU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c4udnf9tNaRXMx7cRVn-rQ@powergate.ca>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> Well, commenting out the regex substitutions in both versions leads to
> equal execution times, as I mentioned earlier, so it has to be my regexes.

I'm sorry, I managed to miss the significance of that
statement in your original post.

I wonder what the impact is of the fact that the re.sub
operations are function calls in Python.  The overhead
of function calls is relatively high in Python, so
perhaps an experiment would be revealing.  Can you try
with a dummy re.sub() call (create a dummy "re" object
that is global to your module, with a dummy .sub()
method that just does "return") and compare the
speed of that with the version without the re.sub
calls at all?  Probably a waste of time, but perhaps
the actual re operations are not so slow after all,
but the calls themselves are.

If that's true, you would at least get a tiny improvement
by alias re.sub to a local name before the loop, to
avoid the global lookup for "re" and then the attribute
lookup for "sub" on each of the three calls, each time
through the loop.

If you can show the format of the input data, I would
be happy to try a little profiling, if you haven't already
done that to prove that the bulk of the time is actually
in the re.sub operation itself.

-Peter


From stewart.midwinter at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 03:04:45 2004
From: stewart.midwinter at gmail.com (Stewart Midwinter)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:04:45 +1300
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 13, Issue 401
In-Reply-To: <20041025050530.644CB1E4004@bag.python.org>
References: <20041025050530.644CB1E4004@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <d4c0d480041025000470eecc1e@mail.gmail.com>

From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
>Is there some sort of converter that converts XML to something more
eye friendly? 

well, you could always try ElementTree, from http://effbot.org. it's a
pretty straightforward way to read in an xml file and convert it to a
Python data structure that you can then manipulate.

cheers
S


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sat Oct 30 09:33:10 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:33:10 +0200
Subject: Regex speed
In-Reply-To: <w4mdnc7RG8C9Dx7cRVn-gA@powergate.ca>
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<DiEgd.6304$kM.2345@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<2uh4g5F29ntaoU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<w4mdnc7RG8C9Dx7cRVn-gA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <2uhjgnF29251cU1@uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
>> OK, thank you. I now got rid of all the regexes, and - surprise,
>> surprise - the speeds are almost equal. The bitter thing about it is
>> that there are now twelve LOC more in Python that don't make
>> understanding the code easier.
>> 
>> So the Perl regex engine seems to be highly optimized, at least for
>> simple expressions.
> 
> Perhaps it's not just your regexes... as Andrew said, "You should post
> the actual code ..."  (Preferably both the Perl and the Python, if you
> are trying to make this into a them vs. us kind of thing, as you
> seem to be doing.)

Well, commenting out the regex substitutions in both versions leads to
equal execution times, as I mentioned earlier, so it has to be my regexes.

Anyway, for your pleasure <wink>, the code (it takes a list of newsgroup
postings and calculates a ratio followups/postings):

------------------------------------------------------------------
At first the perl version (not coded by me):
------------------------------------------------------------------

#!/usr/bin/perl -w

use strict;

die unless @ARGV;

my (%post,%fup);
while (<STDIN>)
{
        chomp;
        my (undef,$from,$mid,$ref) = split /\|/;

        $from =~ s|\s*<.*>\s*||;
        $from = $1 if $from =~ m|\((.*)\)|;
        $from =~ s|^"(.*)"$|$1|;

        my $arr = $post{$from} ||= [];
        push @$arr,$mid;

        $fup{$ref}++;
}

my @arr;
for (keys %post)
{
        my $arr = $post{$_};

        my $m = 0;
        $m += $fup{$_} || 0 for @$arr;

        my $n = @$arr;
        push @arr,[$m/$n,$n,$m,$_];
}

@arr = sort { $b->[1] <=> $a->[1] } @arr;
$#arr = $ARGV[0]-1;

print "Pos Relevanz Posts F'ups Poster\n";
print "--- -------- ----- ----- ------------------\n";

my $i = 1;
for (sort { $b->[0] <=> $a->[0] || $b->[1] <=> $a->[1] } @arr)
{
        printf "%2d)   %2.4f  %4d  %4d %s\n",$i++,@$_;
}

------------------------------------------------------------------
Original Python translation (with regexes):
------------------------------------------------------------------

#!/usr/bin/python

import sys, os, re

if len(sys.argv) == 1:
    sys.exit(0)

post = {}
fup  = {}

re1 = re.compile(r"\s*<.*>\s*")
re2 = re.compile(r".*\((.*)\).*")
re3 = re.compile(r'^"(.*)"$')

for line in sys.stdin:
    line = line.rstrip("\n")
    try:
        nix, fro, mid, ref = line.split("|")
    except: continue

    fro = re1.sub("", fro)
    fro = re2.sub(r"\1", fro)
    fro = re3.sub(r"\1", fro)

    post.setdefault(fro, []).append(mid)

    if ref in fup: fup[ref] += 1
    else: fup[ref] = 1

res = []

for name, arr in post.iteritems():
    m = 0
    for item in arr:
        if item in fup:
            m += fup[item]
    n = len(arr)
    res.append((float(m)/n, n, m, name))

res.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(y[1], x[1]))
del res[int(sys.argv[1]):]

print "Pos Relevanz Posts F'ups Poster"
print "--- -------- ----- ----- ------------------"

res.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(y[0], x[0]) or cmp(y[1], x[1]))
i = 1
for item in res:
    print "%2d)" % i, "  %2.4f  %4d  %4d %s" % item
    i += 1

------------------------------------------------------------------
Optimized Python (without regexes):
------------------------------------------------------------------

#!/usr/bin/python

import sys, os

if len(sys.argv) == 1:
    sys.exit(0)

post = {}
fup  = {}

def inparens(text):
    i = text.find("(")
    if i == -1: return text
    j = text.rfind(")")
    if j < i: return text
    return text[i+1:j]

def removeangles(text):
    i = text.find("<")
    if i == -1: return text
    j = text.rfind(">")
    if j < i: return text
    return text[0:i].rstrip() + text[j+1:].lstrip()

for line in sys.stdin:
    line = line.rstrip("\n")
    try:
        nix, fro, mid, ref = line.split("|")
    except: continue

    fro = inparens(removeangles(fro))
    if fro.startswith('"'):
        if fro.endswith('"'):
            fro = fro[1:-1]

    post.setdefault(fro, []).append(mid)

    if ref in fup: fup[ref] += 1
    else: fup[ref] = 1

res = []

for name, arr in post.iteritems():
    m = 0
    for item in arr:
        if item in fup:
            m += fup[item]
    n = len(arr)
    res.append((float(m)/n, n, m, name))

res.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(y[1], x[1]))
del res[int(sys.argv[1]):]

print "Pos Relevanz Posts F'ups Poster"
print "--- -------- ----- ----- ------------------"

res.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(y[0], x[0]) or cmp(y[1], x[1]))
i = 1
for item in res:
    print "%2d)" % i, "  %2.4f  %4d  %4d %s" % item
    i += 1



------------------------------------------------------------------

Reinhold

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com  Wed Oct 27 18:22:39 2004
From: greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:22:39 -0500
Subject: using re.finditer()
Message-ID: <011701c4bc73$78a6e140$054b12ac@D18SYX41>

> It seems a dot inside [] means a dot rather than "any character".
>DOH! That's right in the docs too. <blush>
Don't worry about it.  I use regular expressions all the time and pull stuff
like that every once in a while, too.  They are a great tool to have in your
toolbox (though I know not everyone here feels the same); keep on working
with them and they will save you lots of time in the future.


Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 11:55:54 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:55:54 +0200
Subject: automatic accessors to a member var dict elements?
References: <mailman.4968.1097781955.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncmtp34.lr2.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<e253918f.0410160934.28d53f04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1glv4ry.95pk4p1mois0yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Michael Loritsch <loritsch at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> class MyClass (dict):             #New style class derived from dict
> type
> 
>     #Use same get/set syntax desired during construction
>     def __init__(self): 
>         self.one = 1              
>         self.two = 2
>         self.three = 3
> 
>     #Get/set syntax changed with simple forwarding functions
>     def __getattr__(self, key):
>         return self.__getitem__(key)
>     def __setattr__(self, key, value):
>         self.__setitem__(key, value)
> 
> Isn't this the type of thing that Guido van Rossum envisioned in
> trying to unify types and classes?

Any deliberate seeding of confusion between items and attributes will
eventually cause grief, IMHO.  Specifically, I'd find it unnerving that
after foo=MyClass(), some foo[x]=y for runtime read/computed values of x
and y may make all kinds of methods unaccessible on foo -- say
foo.keys(), foo.pop(), and so on.  Basically, any such foo would need to
be only ever accessed by implied lookup of special methods (working on
the class, and not the instance, fortunately), and never by any name
lookup of a method on the instance itself.  Looks like a deliberate
attempt to put oneself in a fragile, error-prone situation.  Maybe I'm
just a pessimist!


Alex


From nick at craig-wood.com  Fri Oct  8 09:29:59 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 08 Oct 2004 13:29:59 GMT
Subject: End of file
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrncmcf1i.dku.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glc06l.1s6wzdn11sa54yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <slrncmd4e2.hi8.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> wrote:

[snip good advice re backwards compatibility]

> > Its also half the speed and 4 times the typing
[snip]
> > But who's counting ;-)
> 
>  Nobody, I sure hope.  's=[]' is just four characters, while 'sentinel =
>  []', the usage you suggested (with proper spacing and a decent name), is
>  13, and yet it's pretty obvious the clarity of the latter is well worth
>  the triple typing; and if going to 'sentinel = object()' makes it
>  clearer yet, the lesser move from 13 to 19 (an extra-typing factor of
>  less than 1.5) is similarly well justified.
>  And I think it's unlikely you'll need so many sentinels as to notice the
>  extra 300 nanoseconds or so to instantiate each of them...

My toungue was firmly in cheek as I wrote that as I hope the smiley
above indicated!  I timed the two usages just to see (and because
timeit makes it so easy).  Indeed what is 6 characters and 300 nS
between friends ;-)

I shall put the object() as sentinel trick in my toolbag where it
belongs!

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct 25 17:02:11 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:02:11 -0700
Subject: about wxpython and grid, two problems snif ;)
In-Reply-To: <417d3189$0$3834$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
References: <417d3189$0$3834$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20041025113734.0B13.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> i need your help for two problemes :
> 
> 1) is it possible to easily hide some row, and recover them ?

Make the row height 0.


> 
> 2) is it possible to have different colours on the label columns?
> for instance, when a row is selected, having the label of THIS row, and 
> only this row, colorised in red ?

Checking the documentation, it seems that one can create a custom cell
renderer (subclass of wx.GridCellRenderer) that used a red background,
or perhaps one that subclassed wx.Grid and made calls to renderers with
the proper 'attr' argument "it will draw the rectangle with the
background colour from attr and set the text colour and font."

Honestly, I've not done this, so I don't know how difficult it would be.

 - Josiah



From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Mon Oct 25 12:32:12 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:32:12 -0400
Subject: Pythonic function composition
References: <10nq3c4j3lst8e2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-387665.12321225102004@localhost>

In article <10nq3c4j3lst8e2 at corp.supernews.com>,
 "Alan G Isaac" <aisaac at american.edu> wrote:

> Given a list of functions, it seems there must be a
> Pythonic approach to composition.  Something like
> 
> def compose(fns): return lambda x: reduce(lambda f,g: f(g),fns)(x)
> 
> This will not work because the argument 'x' is not "inside".
> What is the proper formulation?
> 

If you are only concerned with unary functions, then composition is 
fairly trivial to deal with:

def compose(*fns):
  def id(x): return x
  
  def c2(f, g):
    def h(x): return f(g(x))
    return h
  
  return reduce(c2, fns, id)

However, if you want to deal with functions that may take multiple 
arguments, you must be a little more clever.  Here's one way that seems 
to work okay:

def compose(*fns):
    def id(*args): return args
    
    def box(res):
        if isinstance(res, (list, tuple)):
            return res
        else:
            return (res,)

    def unbox(res):
        if isinstance(res, (list, tuple)) and len(res) == 1:
            return res[0]
        else:
            return res
    
    def c2(f, g):
        def h(*args):
            return unbox(f(*box(g(*args))))
        return h
    
    return reduce(c2, fns, id)

For instance:
  def f1(a, b):
    return (a / b, a % b)

  def f2(a, b):
    return a + b

  def f3(a):
    return a + 2

h = compose(f3, f2, f1)
h(5, 3)
==> 5

This will work, but it's not the most efficient possible solution.  You 
could defer unboxing until the end by defining another intermediate 
function.

Cheers,
-M

-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct 13 14:01:33 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:01:33 -0700
Subject: Some notes
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0410130130.590ad422@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<5c882bb5.0410130130.590ad422@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041013103318.092E.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> Sure, but sometimes outsiders can see some things better.

And sometimes outsiders haven't read the threads <wink>.


> >not some Windows-only toolkit that doesn't quite have critical mass.<
> 
> Maybe Gui4cli code will be released, etc. (wxPython is much more
> powerful than Gui4cli-like solutions, so they don't compete, they can
> be for different purposes).

Because Python already has a standard GUI toolkit (tk), including
Gui4cli would imply that it was a better fit as a replacement than other
GUI toolkits.

Both wxPython and PyGTK seem to be far better candidates for replacement
of tk than Gui4cli, both due to their much larger user base, and their
cross-platform capability.

There have been non-standard distributions of Python, sometimes with
more packages specifically for a particular set of platforms. 
Activestate makes one that includes Pythonwin and MFC bindings for GUI
development (you can get Pythonwin and MFC bindings from pywin32 btw). 
While I doubt that Gui4cli would make it into standard Python, its
inclusion by a 3rd party Python packager is really just a question of
whether someone is interested enough in doing so.

> >Colons are a very important delimiter for Python now, and removing
> them just makes the syntax more ambiguous for both reading and for
> interpreting.<
> 
> I've heard similar comments about the leading whitespace used to
> determine the grouping of statements.
> I keep forgetting those colons, I think they are useful mostly for one
> liners, like:
> if <cond>: <code>
> for c in string: <code>

It turns out that those one-liners are not considered Pythonic.

While there has been some discussion regarding spacing in Python, I
believe for many/most that use Python, indentation as scope is a very
positive thing.

If you don't like indentation as scope, you are free to download the
source, change the parser for your scope delimiter of choice, and
recompile.  Since you can pick up a free copy of Microsoft's compiler 
(if you are on Windows), or GCC is freely available, making a working
Python interpreter for your desired syntax is certainly doable.


> >Becoming more like Mathematica is not something one should hope for.<
> 
> Mathematica is a good and powerful language, with a good design (older
> maybe). I see many similarities between Python and Mathematica, and
> such similarities seem to increase with time. (I know, Python is OO
> and Mathematica usually isn't. But Mathematica can be used as a
> functional language, etc.)

In my opinion, the structure, syntax, readability, etc. of programs
written in Mathematica leaves something to be desired.  That is why I
use Python and not Mathematica (that and Mathematica isn't free).

 - Josiah



From gry at ll.mit.edu  Fri Oct 22 11:53:02 2004
From: gry at ll.mit.edu (george young)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:53:02 -0400
Subject: structured unpacking assignments
Message-ID: <20041022115302.2d4e7b78.gry@ll.mit.edu>

[python-2.3.3, x86 linux]
I came across an cool python feature that I've not seen discussed.
This may be *implied* by the language reference manual
[http://docs.python.org/ref/assignment.html], but it was never
obvious to me: 

An assignment statement can unpack a sequence, binding it's values
to explicit names, e.g.:
  r,g,b = color_tuple

and most of us use this frequently.  However, what I never saw was
that the target list (r,g,b above) can also have non-trivial structure:

mylist = [('the', 'article'), ('house', 'noun'), ('run', 'verb')]
for n,(part,word) in enumerate(mylist):
    word_array[n] = Usage(part, word)


This actually feels a lot like lisp's macro destructure feature.
Taking it a bit farther:
[adapted from "Common Lisp", G.L. Steele Jr. 2nd Ed., Digital Press 1990]:

((mouth, eye1, eye2),
 ((fin1, len1),(fin2, len2)),
 tail) = \
    ((m, eyes[0], eyes[1]),
     ((f1, count_scales(f1)), (f2, count_scales(f2))),
     Mahabharata)


Now, I think that pythoneers often use bare list/tuple structures
when a class would be much clearer, and I don't recommend managing halibut
data as in the example.  But the first example seems quite clear and natural.

Does anyone else have illustrious examples of structured unpacking?

-- George Young
-- 
"Are the gods not just?"  "Oh no, child.
What would become of us if they were?" (CSL)


From kosh at aesaeion.com  Sat Oct 16 08:56:27 2004
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:56:27 -0600
Subject: beginning index for generators
Message-ID: <200410160656.27323.kosh@aesaeion.com>

I was wondering if there is or there could be some way to pass a generator an 
optional starting index so that if it supported that slicing could be made 
more efficient. Right now if you do use a generator and do a [100:110] or any 
other kind of slice it reads all the values up to 100 also. 

I know a lot of generators have to do all previous parts before they can do 
the next part but it would be a nice optimization that can start at any index 
to take an optional argument to tell them what index they are currently 
working on. This could make strides more efficient also since it would not 
have to run the generator to skip the parts it was not using.

The reason I would like this to be part of the generator rather then making a 
special function to do this is that it would make it easier to refactor a 
piece of code to be a much more efficient generator from some other sequence 
type without having to change how it is called. 

I have no idea how feasible this is, what it would take to implement it etc 
but I did not get any matches searching this on google and wanted to throw it 
out here to see if others have run into situations in which this would be 
very useful also and would further simplify code and make it more readable.

I would also love to know of other ways that this problem could be solved but 
I would like it to be as transparent as possible to existing calling code.


From ronwalf at umd.edu  Thu Oct 14 13:23:21 2004
From: ronwalf at umd.edu (Ron Alford)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:23:21 -0400
Subject: Ode to Urllib2
In-Reply-To: <416E98DD.1010808@umd.edu>
References: <416E98DD.1010808@umd.edu>
Message-ID: <416EB609.9@umd.edu>

Ron Alford wrote:
> 
> Oh Urllib2,
> When I ask, you GET, when I tell, you POST.
> But I am about to lose my HEAD, for these are my only OPTIONS.
> What about my need to PUT up new things, DELETE the old, or TRACE my steps?
> 

And to reply to my own post, it is fixed (sorta) in Python 2.4.

You only have to subclass urllib2.Request and override .get_method (ick!).

-Ron
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From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 23 10:46:24 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:46:24 -0400
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5359.1098542166.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>	<QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>	<mailman.5357.1098540970.5135.python-list@python.org>	<jtidnZlHj6049OfcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5359.1098542166.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2-idnfYPRs9d8-fcRVn-oA@powergate.ca>

David Wilson wrote:
> NAME
>     ConfigParser - Configuration file parser.
> 
> The 'config' object you refer to does not appear to be implemented by 
> the ConfigParser module.

Ah, there's the conflict.  For the simpler stuff I'm picturing,
I don't have a *separate* parser which serves solely to
read the file and return the information therein in a form
that requires a different object to preserve and provide later
access to it.  I bundle those babies together so, in my mind
and despite seeing the name and reading your various comments
repeatedly, it wasn't clear to me that we were implicitly (?)
leaving out all other issues of configuration, leaving only
the tiny parsing bit.

My apologies for misunderstanding your point.

-Peter


From agriff at tin.it  Wed Oct 20 01:57:31 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 05:57:31 GMT
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5153.1098150302.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1098194866.552318.234710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5183.1098208117.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glxbjm.3z1g3hhxomoxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Wwfdd.1635$%h1.697@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <mntbn01dpfi3h456dkb90t3kqlnom14m0e@4ax.com>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:18:46 GMT, Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com>
wrote:

>I concur.  I've seen several C++ projects developed by one
>person which are bit higher than O(100,000) LOC (not SLOC).
>That's about the point where it beomes unwieldy for one person
>to maintain.

One of the parts that is going to be replaced by the new
project is currently about 130K lines of C and is indeed
being maintained by a single programmer. When discussing
the reimplementation and hence re-analizing what are the
solutions that made in during the years it has been clear
to me that that program is beyond the reasonable limit
(to many questions about why something has been done that
way or how a certain thing is used the maintainer replies
with "I do not remember" or "no idea, let's see", and
this even about parts developed by him).
Not surprisingly in the last period bug hunting has been
quite costly, and you can smell the fear (terror?) of
changes.

What is also IMO quite evident is that a *big* part of
those lines of code are just uninteresting minutiae that
wouldn't be present if coding in python.

Andrea


From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 13 16:45:26 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 13:45:26 -0700
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410080849.51fbdcfa@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62@posting.google.com>
	<a7a67196.0410082348.36fd45a@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410091859.39a6c028@posting.google.com>
	<416a53cd$0$16541$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<8f17f4bc.0410111438.7d73466f@posting.google.com>
	<416b8d92$0$7227$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<8f17f4bc.0410121402.1873b7b7@posting.google.com>
	<416cdf1e$0$8640$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410131245.3cebabd5@posting.google.com>

Eric Brunel <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote in message news:<416cdf1e$0$8640$8fcfb975 at news.wanadoo.fr>...
> Ali wrote:
> [snip]
> > well I tryed this:
> > 
> > import Tkinter
> > def add_rows(w, titles, rows):
> >     t.configure(state = 'normal')
> 
> REMOVE THAT LINE! Since you use t as a local variable afterwards, this will make 
> the whole script fail. BTW, this means this isn't the code you actually used, 
> since it doesn't display any window at all.
> 
> >     w.configure(state = 'normal')
> >     for r in rows:
> >         for t, v in zip(titles, r):
> >             w.insert("end", "%s:\t%s\n" % (t, v))
> >         w.insert("end", "\n")
> > 
> > app = Tkinter.Tk()
> > t = Tkinter.Text(app)
> > t.pack()
> > info = [['Ali',18],
> >         ['Zainab',16],
> >         ['Khalid',18]]
> > add_rows(t, ["Name", "Age"], info)
> > app.mainloop()
> > 
> > Well... it shows the window, it doesnt show text, it still lets me type in stuff :( 
> > What is wrong now?
> 
> You never set the text state to disabled, so no wonder you can still type text in...

ok so I typed:

import Tkinter
def add_rows(w, titles, rows):
    w.configure(state = 'normal')
    for r in rows:
        for t, v in zip(titles, r):
            w.insert("end", "%s:\t%s\n" % (t, v))
        w.insert("end", "\n")

app = Tkinter.Tk()
t = Tkinter.Text(app, state='disabled')
t.pack()
info = [['Ali',18],
        ['Zainab',16],
        ['Khalid',18]]
add_rows(t, ["Name", "Age"], info)
app.mainloop()

This now shows the text but, will still let me edit the text in side! :(


From lbates at syscononline.com  Thu Oct  7 18:43:12 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:43:12 -0500
Subject: _winreg problem
In-Reply-To: <ck4bhc$ll3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <ck4bhc$ll3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <BJedne4cdK3gW_jcRVn-gA@comcast.com>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> The below function fails with this error:
> ValueError: Could not convert the data to the specified type.
> 
> The problem appears to be the v variable. When I make v an int, I get:
> WindowsError: [Error 5] Access is denied. This makes sense to me as the 
> _winreg docs says that value (v) in SetvalueEx should be a string, but I 
> do not understand why it  gives the "ValueError" error when I make it a 
> string. Also, I can do one key (Log) at a time, but not iterate over all 
> of them like I'd like to do. I've checked it with print statements... 
> every thing looks right.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> def log_limits():       ## 18
>     ## For winXP SP2 & Python 2.3.4
>     ## set log limits on EventLogs, keep guests out of logs and set them 
> to overwrite as needed.
>     logs = ['Application', 'Security', 'System']
>     vals = {'Retention':'0', 'MaxSize':'10223616', 
> 'RestrictGuestAccess':'1'}
>     for l in logs:
>         x = r"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Eventlog\%s" % l
>         ## This print shows I'm iterating of the logs correctly.
>         print x
>         key = OpenKey(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, x)
>         for n,v in vals.iteritems():
>             ## This print shows I'm associating the value pairs with 
> each Log
>             print n,v
>             ## Here is where the failure occurs... the v at the end:
>             SetValueEx(key,n,0,REG_DWORD,v)
>         CloseKey(key)



It took me DAYS to find this on the Net.  The "trick" is you need
extra parameters on your OpenKey call, otherwise you get your error.

Try following, I think it will help.:

     key = OpenKey(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, x, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)

Good Luck,

Larry Bates


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Oct 29 04:50:49 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 08:50:49 GMT
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <Xns9591642B12E85duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Gabriel Zachmann wrote:

> Is it correct to say that strong/weak typing does not make a
> difference if one does not use any pointers (or adress-taking
> operator)? 
> 
> More concretely, I am thinking particularly of Python vs C++.
> So, are there any examples (without pointers, references, or
> adress-taking), which would have a different result in Python and in
> C++? 

Here's a trivial example that is almost identical in Python and C/C++ but 
gives totally different results. In a weakly typed language such as C or 
C++:

#include <stdio.h>

int main(int argc, char**argv)
{
    float f = 3;
    printf("value is %d", f);
}

I get the output (you may get different results):

value is 0

In a fairly strongly typed language such as Python:

>>> f = 3.0
>>> print "value is %d" % f
value is 3

In a really strongly typed language I would expect an exception to 
be thrown.


From jonathan at gennick.com  Tue Oct 19 21:43:06 2004
From: jonathan at gennick.com (Jonathan Gennick)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:43:06 -0400
Subject: Luther Blisset
References: <9jb8n014advbvs5n0li6lo1a0d4cedbcsp@4ax.com>
	<7nXcd.719$si.122@lakeread04>
Message-ID: <lkgbn09md8apsuejevgc6odnmucqctr70h@4ax.com>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:18:06 -0400, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com>
wrote:

>I think you'll find that Luther Blisset is a nom-de-plume

Yep. Alex got me on this one.

Best regards,

Jonathan Gennick
Editor, O'Reilly Media
906.387.1698   mailto:jgennick at oreilly.com


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Oct 20 17:55:05 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:55:05 GMT
Subject: reverse Jython
In-Reply-To: <4176d995$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.5172.1098197357.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41759f7d$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<1glyebd.1afm95x1ip4x1cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4176d995$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Z8Bdd.2498$%h1.1905@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Maurice LING wrote:
> Please don't get me wrong. Academic work need not be detached from 
> real-world usefulness, in fact, academic work should have the potential 
> to solve real-world problems.

The trick is knowing which research has the potential.

The example I like best is research into primes.  It had
over 2000 years of study before its practical use in
cryptography.

Was there another practical use of primes before the mid-1900s?
Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle suggests unique prime
decomposition was used as a basis for information management,
but I don't know if that was real, much less practical.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From rattan at cps.cmich.edu  Tue Oct 26 07:43:41 2004
From: rattan at cps.cmich.edu (Ishwar Rattan)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 04:43:41 -0700
Subject: Global variables..
References: <938a4680.0410251353.64578a27@posting.google.com>
	<10nr45n59gk9011@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <938a4680.0410260343.5e025dd5@posting.google.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message news:<10nr45n59gk9011 at corp.supernews.com>...
> Ishwar Rattan wrote:
> 
> >Say I have two pythom modules in separate files:
> >main.py -> contains main() modules and uses a global variable (say a)
> >incr.py -> contains incre() that changes the value of global variable a
> >(called in main())
> >
> >Is there a way to reflect the change in main()?
> >  
> >
> > Hm, second time today that this question has been asked.  (And both 
> posts sport an .edu address, too.)  Coincidence?
> 
Recall the old adage that if one can't do it then one can always teach :-)
Thanks for the answer.
-ishwar


From dellaq at ml1.net  Thu Oct 21 22:52:06 2004
From: dellaq at ml1.net (John Dell'Aquila)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 19:52:06 -0700
Subject: Trapping numeric operators
Message-ID: <9f314492.0410211852.2748741@posting.google.com>

I want to trap numeric operators (+ * % etc.) so that my new style
classes can handle them generically, similar to __getattr__ in an old
style class.

I've never done any metaprogramming before but I'm thinking of using
the below metaclass to accomplish this. It reads a class variable,
implements_operators, to determine which methods handle various
operators, then inserts closures to call the generic methods with
disambiguating parameters (the name of the magic method and the
corresponding operator built-in, if it can be determined).

Is this a reasonable approach or an abuse of metaclasses? Any comments
would be deeply appreciated.

Thanks,
John

import operator   # the metaclass
class metaOperator(type):
    def __new__(cls, classname, bases, classdict):
        fnDict = classdict['implements_operators']
        for fn in fnDict.iterkeys():
            for magicName in fnDict[fn]:
                for opName in (magicName, '__%s'%magicName[3:]):
                    # try magicName else assume in-place/right
                    # and strip out the presumptive 'i'/'r'
                    try:
                        op = getattr(operator, opName)
                        break
                    except AttributeError:
                        pass
                else:
                    op = None
                classdict[magicName] = (
                    lambda self, other=None, name=magicName, op=op, fn=fn:
                    fn(self, other, name, op)
                    )
        return type.__new__(cls, classname, bases, classdict)

class Q(object):  # a sketch of its use
    __metaclass__ = metaOperator

    def binop(self, other, name, op): pass
    def ibinop(self, other, name, op): pass
    def unop(self, other, name, op): pass

    implements_operators = {
        binop: ('__add__','__sub__','__mul__','__div__'),
        ibinop: ('__iadd__','__isub__','__imul__','__idiv__'),
        unop: ('__neg__','__pos__','__abs__','__invert__'),
        }


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Oct 14 08:47:30 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:47:30 +0200
Subject: Is there something like Zoe in Python
In-Reply-To: <416e5e1d@news.mt.net.mk>
References: <416e5e1d@news.mt.net.mk>
Message-ID: <20041014124728.GK2544@zoran.com>

Hello ????????????,

> Zoe is an application written in Java that is also a SMTP/POP/WEB server
> that sits between your normal mail user agent (Thunderbird, mutt or
> Outlook) and the rest of the world. Every mail you've received or sent is
> stored and indexed in Zoe, so that you can perform searches (ala Google) on
> your own mail database, via its web interface.
> 
> I was wondering if there's something similar but written in Python.
You can do indexing with Lupy (http://www.divmod.org/Home/Projects/Lupy/)
The SMTP/POP/WEB stuff can be done with the standard Python library or with
twisted (http://twistedmatrix.com/).

HTH.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at gmail.com>
http://tebeka.spymac.net
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 14:14:49 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:14:49 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <10mqr0rlj9h6r69@corp.supernews.com>
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mo6q66oi0kj04@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmplmh.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mqr0rlj9h6r69@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1097691289.12092.237.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 10:58 -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> Antoon Pardon wrote:
> 
> >Op 2004-10-12, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
> >  
> >
> >>Functions are at a different level of granularity than numbers and 
> >>lists.  Anonymity makes sense for numbers and lists; it makes less sense 
> >>for collections of numbers and lists; and it makes still less sense for 
> >>organized collections of numbers, lists, and operations thereon, which 
> >>are structured in a meaningful way to express some (part of an) 
> >>algorithm.
> >>

Hi Jeff,

Jumping in way late in this thread, I'll toss in my pennies and say I
still use lambda fairly regularly in one place, and it just happens to
be the very place where I learned of lambda in the first place: event
handlers for GUI programming.  I first learned the technique in Tkinter
circa 1.5.2 and still use it in wxPython.  It isn't strictly necessary,
but given the already cluttered nature of GUI programming, I'm pretty
reluctant to toss in four or five more names every time I want a
complicated event handler to get called with slightly different
arguments. Basically I use it as a poor-man's curry (if I understand
currying correctly, I've only seen conversations about it on this list
and that's the impression I was left with: that it's a way of providing
variations in the default arguments to a function).

As I know you're a wxPython user as well, I'd be curious to know how you
approach this particular problem.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From jbmadsen at lycos.com  Mon Oct 18 00:01:33 2004
From: jbmadsen at lycos.com (Jim Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:01:33 -0600
Subject: Easy web session module with Python?
In-Reply-To: <416df772$0$3947$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
References: <416df772$0$3947$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <AvSdnbkxcOg2oe7cRVn-og@comcast.com>

If you are looking for something like ASP/JSP/PHP be sure to look at 
Spyce.  Spyce (Python Server Pages - PSP) embeds Python in HTML.

http://spyce.sourceforge.net



Johnathan Doe wrote:
> Hi,  I'm looking for an easy way to do web development with Python 
> (session handling a-la ASP/JSP/PHP, that kind of thing).  I've looked at 
> PythonWeb.org but it has bugs because it's not tested on UNIX platforms 
> it seems (I've created some patches and sent them to the author), and a 
> quick browse through PyPI in the mature/stable packages doesn't reveal 
> much hope, unless I've missed something.  I've googled for session 
> handling with Python, and it seems something called "pso" would be ok, 
> but that is only mod_python as far as I know, and I may need something 
> that works with cgi only hosts.
> 
> I could write my own I suppose, but surely someone has done this before? 
>  Thanks for any tips!
> 
> Johnathan


From mike at hobbshouse.org  Thu Oct 21 17:46:50 2004
From: mike at hobbshouse.org (Michael Hobbs)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:46:50 -0000
Subject: ANN: Candygram 1.0 final released. (Python + Erlang)
Message-ID: <mailman.5318.1098453303.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>

Announcing the final release of Candygram 1.0. 
There are no changes from the beta 2 release. 
 
Candygram is a Python implementation of Erlang concurrency
primitives. Erlang is widely respected for its elegant built-in
facilities for concurrent programming. This package attempts to
emulate those facilities as closely as possible in Python. With
Candygram, developers can send and receive messages between
threads using semantics nearly identical to those in the Erlang
language.  
 
More information about Candygram can be found at
http://candygram.sourceforge.net 


From jwaixs at linuxmail.org  Sun Oct 10 11:17:49 2004
From: jwaixs at linuxmail.org (jwaixs)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:17:49 +0200
Subject: Hello
Message-ID: <f1b4f$41694ef8$53e8229a$629@freeler.nl>

Hello,

This mail is just to say welcome to everybody. Because I never 
used Usernet before. I think I will look like a real n00b now. 

Bye,

jwaixs (is this nickname alright, or do you prefer my real name?)

----------------------------JW-19-XS-----------------------------------


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 28 00:34:53 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:34:53 -0400
Subject: mod_python newbie question.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5574.1098896884.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5574.1098896884.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <418076ED.60201@holdenweb.com>

[posted and mailed]

Golawala, Moiz M (GE Infrastructure) wrote:
> Hi All, 
> 
> I am very new to mod_python (I have developed application with python but am new to web development in general). I have read most of the documentation and I have a couple of questions. I am planning to use mod_python along with Cheetah to build an internal website for my company. So far I have include some basic handlers in apache and can view a hello world script on my browser. Now when I try to do something a little more complicated I am lost.
> 
You've got all the bits, you just haven't managed to put them together 
the right way yet. Don't worry, there's not much wrong. The main thing 
you've spotted (but failed to understand the implications of) is that 
all .py references to that directory trigger the same script.

You are actually writing an Apache handler rather than application code. 
It's a tribute to mod_python that the likes of us can achieve this, but 
in fact we can usually stay away from handlers, because Grisha was kind 
enough to provide the basics as a part of mod_python.

>  I have a couple of text fields that I want the user to fill out and then hit the submit button. I can get that html page up but I don't understand the mechanism where once a user hits the submit button, how does he/she get to the next page on the site. 
> 
The handler calls the appropriate functionality is how it's supposed to 
work.

> In the documentation I don't see any multi page working examples. Can some one point me to some resource that has working mult-page html (PSP or Cheetah based) examples with the necessary Directory tags in the httpd.conf file so I can better understand what is going on. 
> 
It isn't easy to find, but if you read 
http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/hand-pub-alg-trav.html 
carefully it explains rather succinctly how the publisher handler works. 
The sections that follow give you a bit more detail.

> Here is an some code to explain what I am trying to do and what my confusion is:
> 
> In my httpd.conf file:
> <Directory /var/www/html/>
> 	PythonHandler main
> 	PythonDebug on
> </Directory>
>
I'm not an Apache configuration expert, but I think this means every 
reference to the home directory will be processed by main.py, no matter 
what the URL.

I think (personally) you'd be better off starting with the pre-written 
"publisher" handler.

> in my main.py file:
> 
> from cheetah.Template import Template
> from mod_python import apache
> 
> def handler(req):
> 	t = Template(file,"/var/www/html/main.tmpl")
> 	textlen = len(str(t))
> 	req.set_content(t)
> 	req.set_content_length(textlen)
> 	apache.OK	
> 
A very basic handler, but unfortunately as you have discovered, it gets 
triggered for every request. The "publisher" handler can be used to call 
one of a number of routines inside a single page by "decoding" the URL 
to decide which resource to call in a specific Python module.

> in my main.tmpl file:
> 
> <html>
> <head></head>
> <body>
> 	<form action="valid.py">
> 	<input type="text" size="20" name="input1">
> 	<input type="text" size="20" name="input2">
> 	<input type="submit" name="submit" value="submit">
> 	</form
> </body>
> </html>
> 
> My problem is that the browser renders the page that is defined in the main.tmpl file. But once I enter the text and click submit. I want the browser to display the page that is defined the template used in valid.py (as the form tag shows) but some how I get the main.py page back. The reason this is happening is that once I click the submit button, I get back to the server and the handler is invoked and main.py is called. I can never go to another page. 
> 
> I am sure I am doing something wrong. Please can someone help me out.. Or direct me to some place that show an example of how this mechanism works correctly.
> 
Well, instead of your current configuration, try something like:

<Directory /var/www/html/>
	AddHandler mod_python .py
	PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
	PythonDebug on
</Directory>

This will have the publisher handler process the calls. Since you've 
already got a "main.py", let's keep that file but modify it slightly. 
Note that this code is untested, so you may have to fiddle with it:

from cheetah.Template import Template
from mod_python import apache

def index(req):
	return Template(file,"/var/www/html/main.tmpl")

def doForm(req, input1, input2, submit):
	return ...

You will need to access the form with the URL

     http://yourserver/main

although as Grisha explains, you could equally use

     http://yourserver/main/index

The "main.tmpl" file should be modified to make the action of the form

     http://yourserver/main/doForm

One of the slight problems with "implied function" URLs such as the 
first one above is that they bugger up relative links. Ideally your 
template should just use

     <form action="doForm">

but this will fail if you use the first URL, as the browser will 
translate it to

     http://yourserver/doForm

rather than

     http://yourserver/main/doForm

which is what's really required.

> Again, any help is appreciated. 

Let me know how you get on. mod_python is cool!

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From sstaats at questia.com  Mon Oct 11 11:46:54 2004
From: sstaats at questia.com (S. Staats)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 08:46:54 -0700
Subject: Good day, everbody. Here is a simple program called test.py:
	#!/usr/bin/python print "No newline, please.",
	# End of program Here is what program does: prompt> ./test.py No
	newline, please.  prompt>    Here is what I want the program to do
Message-ID: <64cf9d00.0410110746.5432650c@posting.google.com>

Sorry about the 'double' post.  The first one is missing an important piece.
                                                                                
Here is a simple program called test.py:
#!/usr/bin/python
print "No newline, please.",
# End of program
                                                                                
Here is what program does:
prompt> ./test.py
No newline, please.
prompt>
                                                                                
Here is what I want the program to do:
prompt> ./test.py
No newline, please.prompt>
                                                                                
How can I get the python interpreter to not print a newline when it exits?
                                                                                
Thanks for your help!


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Oct 17 12:55:06 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:55:06 -0500
Subject: md5 and large files
In-Reply-To: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20041017165505.GG2588@unpythonic.net>

It seems likely that 2 files would have the same 4k "preamble".

For instance, a unix tar file containing a 16k "file1" and then a 1k
"file2" would have the same leading bytes as a unix tar file containing
a 16k "file1" and a 1k "file3", and therefore the md5sum over the first
4k would match. (these two tar files would also have the same byte
length)

If all pages on some website begin
    <HTML>
        <HEAD>
        <SCRIPT> pages and pages of javascript here (at least 4k) </SCRIPT>
        <TITLE> ...
the initial 4k might match, too.

But anyway, if s1 != s2, then the odds that hash(s1) != hash(s2) should
be small, and that shouldn't depend on the length of the string.

Jeff
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From timr at probo.com  Tue Oct 26 01:42:13 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:42:13 -0700
Subject: Expiring Database Connections
Message-ID: <kkorn0lsvp56i4vsvbm8e6drnln27trada@4ax.com>

This question is only marginally related to Python, but I'm going to ask it
here because (a) this is the most tolerant group in the comp.lang
hierarchy, and (b) people in this group would know the answer.

Many of the Python-based web solutions use a long-running process: WebWare,
FastCGI, and mod_python all run an interpreter long-term, and keep the
classes loaded until the web server stops.

On Windows, with some databases, this represents a problem.  With Access
specifically, and with SQLite occasionally, having an open database
connection can make it impossible to open the database from another
process, such as from a command line.  It seems to me that I could solve
this problem by starting up a deadman timer when a database connection is
opened, and if no additional connections are made in, say, one or two
minutes, close the database connection completely.

I'm wondering if anyone has done such a thing and/or has any thoughts or
comments.  My web searches were unsuccessful.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From skywalkerpackage at hotmail.com  Mon Oct  4 03:54:16 2004
From: skywalkerpackage at hotmail.com (Johannes Eble)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:54:16 +0200
Subject: Python-Matlab extensions: Comparisons?
Message-ID: <uhu1m0t4euvekl61ilengepdhuettvmutr@4ax.com>

Hello Python community,

I have looked for a Python extension to bring Python nearer to Matlab.
I am interested to do as much as possible in Python and to replace
Matlab as much as possible. Now I have found several extensions, i.e.

Matplotlib, SciPy, PyMatrix, and MatPy.

How do they compare to each other?


PyMatrix
(http://www3.sympatico.ca/cjw/PyMatrix/Doc/PyMatrixPackage.html)
 seems to obsolete MatPy (http://matpy.sourceforge.net/), but both
seem to concentrate on Matrix features only.

Matplotlib specialises in 2d plotting capabilities, I am not sure if
it builds upon Gnuplot.py.

SciPy seems to be the most general Matlab-like solution so it's
probably the way to go for me.

Any advice?


Best regards


Johannes




From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Mon Oct 25 07:43:54 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:43:54 +0100
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-function
 o   verloading.
In-Reply-To: <clin3v$ilg$1@news.sap-ag.de>
References: <mailman.5414.1098701076.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clin3v$ilg$1@news.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <cliotv$9nq$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Daniel Dittmar wrote:
> Doran_Dermot at emc.com wrote:
> 
>>   def title( self, title=None ):
>>     if title == None:
>>       return self._title
>>     self._title = title
> 
> You probably meant
>   def title( self, title=None ):
>     if title == None:
>        return self._title
>     else:
>        self._title = title
> 
> or every read access would clear the attribute.

No, the OP was right here--the return occurs before the attribute can be 
set.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Wed Oct 27 15:42:09 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:42:09 -0700
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.27.19.25.09.807563@jerf.org>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<2u9hklF24n4b1U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<T82dnedQ8YiFBuLcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>
	<z6Nfd.755$K7.388@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<pan.2004.10.27.19.25.09.807563@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <clotmh$dp$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:09:51 +0000, Neil Hodgson wrote:
> 
>>I would
>>love to be able to just renounce copyright on my work but it no longer
>>appears possible.
> 
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, nothing prevents you from doing that. Usually
> all you need is a "This work is placed in the public domain by the
> author", and it would probably be a good idea to add a date and a name,
> though later modifiers can freely remove it.

IANAL. TINLA.

Actually, in the US, nothing *allows* you to release something into the 
public domain. For new works, it's a category that only exists for works 
whose copyright has expired by time or works created by the US government.

Even when a work is legitimately public domain in the US, it is somewhat 
murky whether such status exists in other Berne Convention countries, too.

In short, the concept of dedicating something to the public domain is so 
murky that I've abandoned it. Slapping an MIT license on my work is so 
much easier and clearer.

> As long as you understand that if someone uses your software to power
> their Alan Parsons Project "Laser" and holds the Earth hostage for ONE
> MEEEEEEELION DOLLARS that you have no recourse whatsoever, that's fine.
> (Obviously an extreme, but it is worth pointing out the relinquishing all
> rights really means *all* rights;

That's not *quite* true. Even for works that have unambiguously fallen 
into the public domain, the author retains certain rights called "moral 
rights." For example, it is impermissible to change a public domain work 
  and still claim that the author wrote the whole work including the 
changes.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From albgrig at tiscalinet.it  Thu Oct 21 15:43:05 2004
From: albgrig at tiscalinet.it (Alberto Griggio)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:43:05 +0200
Subject: Pymacs problem
References: <mailman.5263.1098374176.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl93hb$5as$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:56:09 -0500, Skip Montanaro wrote:

> I'm trying to use the Pymacs bridge to add a symbol completion facility to
> Emacs's python-mode. 

This sound quite cool! :-)


> What do I need to do to convert that object into a true Python list of
> strings?  I'm afraid I don't quite understand the description of the lisp
> object in the Pymacs docs.  I tried imports.value() but that just gave me
> 
>     (aref pymacs-lisp 0)
> 
> Any help appreciated...
> 

Disclaimer: so far I've only played with Pymacs a little bit, I'm by no 
means an expert. Anyway, from the manual:

"""
Proper Emacs Lisp lists, those for which the cdr of last cell is nil, are
normally transmitted opaquely to Python. If pymacs-forget-mutability is
set, or if Python later asks for these to be expanded, proper Emacs Lisp
lists get converted into Python lists, if we except the empty list, which
is always converted as Python None. In the other direction, Python lists
are always converted into proper Emacs Lisp lists.
"""

So, maybe try

    (defun py-complete ()
      (interactive)
      (let ((pymacs-forget-mutability t)) 
	(pycomplete-pycomplete (py-symbol-near-point)
                               (py-find-global-imports))))

HTH,
Alberto






From markus.zywitza at gmx.de  Thu Oct  7 05:11:42 2004
From: markus.zywitza at gmx.de (Markus Zywitza)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:11:42 +0200
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
In-Reply-To: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <001801c4ac4d$a9806600$6473a8c0@laptop01>

Hi Fuzzy,

> Assuming that each visitor will have a unique IP address is probably
> not 100% accurate but will have a reasonably low margin of error !! Is
> there any reason not to use this approach ?

I know a reason: Millions of AOL users are forced to use a cluster of proxy
servers, so they will not only share a small range of IPs, but the IP might
change from request to request!

I therefore advice you to use sessions instead of IP tracking. This is much
more accurate and should be supported by most webapp-frameworks.

  -Markus



From jf at boisvieux.remove_dot.com  Sun Oct 17 05:57:19 2004
From: jf at boisvieux.remove_dot.com (Jean-Francois Boisvieux)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:57:19 +0200
Subject: creating users from a text file in Plone : how ?
Message-ID: <cktfm0$a35$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

the subject is the question, anybody could provide me a pointer on this 
subject ?

Thanks

JF


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 10 21:06:01 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:06:01 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <MNCdnR9olpAhWvTcRVn-pg@comcast.com>
References: <XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
	<MNCdnR9olpAhWvTcRVn-pg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20041010175617.0897.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> > Make it run python code
> > then you'll see a lot more interest from this group.
> 
> Like I said in the first sentence of my earlier message:
> "I thought I'd share it here since there has been so much interest for 
> similar projects like IronPython."

I think that IronPython is a bit different from Boo though; it
implements Python, not some Python-like language, derivative, what have
you.

There was also a similar thing with Prothon (Python with prototypes) by
Mark Hahn a while back, that actually used this newsgroup/mailing list
as their discussion forum.  I have no particular comment about that.

Re: the Boo language
Make it well, and good luck.

 - Josiah



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 20:54:24 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 00:54:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Graceful handling of first line
References: <ck5neo$t2n$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<20041008095200.GA25498@nl.linux.org>
	<20041008083902.ED7F.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <loom.20041009T025251-543@post.gmane.org>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson <at> uci.edu> writes:

> IMO, unconditionally breaking out of a for loop is the nicer way of
> handling things in this case, no exceptions to catch.

There's still a NameError to catch if you haven't initialized line:

>>> for line in []:
...     break
...
>>> line
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'line' is not defined

I don't much like the break out of a for loop, because it feels like a misuse 
of a construct designed for iteration...  But take your pick: StopIteration or 
NameError.  =)

Steve




From agriff at tin.it  Tue Oct  5 17:51:31 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:51:31 GMT
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <mailman.4227.1096839829.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fu-dnW0ayarAGf3cRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
	<a321m0ptb8j9rfq01mrd5pn9vg791njquf@4ax.com>
	<opmdnfljLrvGPf3cRVn-qQ@powergate.ca>
	<nkc4m0dkiqqkrmlouib0rmcl8sqv6hnb0u@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4345.1096989164.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mq16m0lp7t7i1o71rf3q5g0mn0en19nh92@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:12:39 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro
<carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 06:10:17 GMT, Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> wrote:
>> In this field seems to me that really people try to
>> get above by standing on each other feet instead than
>> on each other shoulders; but this doesn't look to me
>> like just a software problem.
>
>Nice definition.

I liked it too... it's not mine.

I don't remember where I read it (probably in a site about
(against) software patents).

>Keeping with the same reasoning line, why don't the engineers that
>work in the company take more responsibility? Because they were never
>in such a position. They don't have a choice. They have to keep things
>running, period. The one who messes up with stuff is fired. And doing
>development is not their company business, anyway. Want to do it? Go
>working for a vendor.

Well... in our case we have customers that didn't probably
see an engineer in past 10 years. Still they can buy and use
rather hi-tech machines from us that cost several tens of
thousands of dollars. It doesn't come as a surprise to me they
don't want to take the responsibility for them being functional.
A sad part is that sometimes our customer support has to
spend time to explain people what does it mean to copy a file
from a floppy disk to a certain directory; but I've to say
that the users that create more troubles are actually the
"expert" ones. I would actually refuse to provide any support
to anyone relinking my application with a newer versions of
a library... you really wanna do it ? You're welcome, but
don't call me if something doesn't work and you've something
urgent to do with the system... unless you really like being
insulted over the phone. Luckily this doesn't happen often...
It's much more common (and a bit annoying) to see someone
fearing updates...

In the software development we're IMO still at the barbarian
level. Anyone can write anything, and no one takes any
responsibility for what has done. In our world you can buy
a spreadsheet and read in the disclaimer that if putting 5
in a cell, and 5 in another and asking for the sum you get 11
then you can't even ask for a refound; let alone the payment
for consequential damages. Try to imagine people building
airplanes using the same spirit.

Andrea


From richie at entrian.com  Fri Oct 15 10:18:25 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:18:25 +0100
Subject: urllib2 / ClientCookie / Keep-Alive
Message-ID: <pqlvm0ppltcmduaelclc9nqm991hpr6ej0@4ax.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to write a test script to hammer an HTTP server over a
persistent HTTP 1.1 connection.  The server uses cookies, so I'm using a
combination of ClientCookie 0.4.19 and urllib2 with Python 2.3.4 on
Windows XP.  This is what I have so far:

import urllib2, ClientCookie
UA = 'Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0;)'
URL = 'http://server/resource/'
opener = ClientCookie.build_opener(ClientCookie.HTTPCookieProcessor)
while 1:
    request = ClientCookie.Request(URL)
    request.add_header('User-Agent', UA)
    print repr(opener.open(request).read()[:100])

Which works fine, but opens a new connection for every request.
Following some (dubious) code I found with Google, I added this:

    request.add_header('Connection', 'Keep-alive')

but that makes it hang.

Can someone tell me the official way to enable urllib2 and/ClientCookie
to use persistent connections?

(I briefly tried Python 2.4, but that didn't work either.  If there's
solution that requires Python 2.4, that's no problem.)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  8 12:49:19 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 09:49:19 -0700
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.10.07.19.38.16.805089@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410080849.3c76bf93@posting.google.com>

Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.07.19.38.16.805089 at jerf.org>...
> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:31:19 -0700, Ali wrote:
> 
> > I have a the list:
> > 
> > info = [['Ali',18],
> >         ['Zainab',16],
> >         ['Khalid',18]]
> > 
> > I want this info to show on a tk window like this:
> > 
> > |--|------------------------|
> > |TK|Blah                    |
> > |--|------------------------|
> > |Name: Ali                  |
> > |Age:  18                   |
> > |                           |
> > |Name: Zainab               |
> > |Age:  16                   |
> > |                           |
> > |Name: Khalid               |
> > |Age:  18                   |
> > |---------------------------|
> > 
> > I was wondering how to do this?
> 
> http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/grid.htm
> 
> Do you even try to figure these things out before posting?

Yes.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 16 06:17:31 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:17:31 +0200
Subject: automatic accessors to a member var dict elements?
References: <mailman.4968.1097781955.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mu7sfs68m1q28@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1glpqyv.1dudzaf96cxkzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
   ...
> __getattr__() and __setattr__() to redirect accesses of nonexistent 
> attributes into operations on your contained dict, something like this
> (untested):
> 
>     class MyClass(object):        # ensure a new-style class
>         def __init__(self):
>             self.m_dict = {'one':1, 'two':2, 'three':3}
>         def __getattr__(self, attr):
>             value = self.m_dict.get(attr, None)
>             if value is None:
>                 raise AttributeError(attr)
>             return value
>         def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
>             self.m_dict[attr] = value
> 
> I'm using a new-style class to take advantage of improvements in 
> attribute lookup.  For this class, __getattr__()/__setattr__() will only
> be called if attr isn't found through the normal attribute resolution

Yes for __getattr__, but no for __setattr__ -- in both cases, just like
in classic classes.  When in __init__ you try to set attr m_dict (and in
this case it wouldn't even make much sense to say it's "found through
the normal attribute resolution" -- it's not there yet at that time, so
it couldn't be found), this invokes __setattr__, which goes boom
(because m_dict ain't set yet).  If you needed that __setattr__, your
__init__ should assign self.__dict__['m_dict'] instead.  But the OP
didn't ask for that __setattr__ anyway, so I'd remove it instead.

> rules. 
> 
> One problem with the way I'm doing things here is that, if you set a 
> dict item to a value of None, the object will raise an AttributeError
> when trying to access that item.  This really ought to use a safer 
> sentinel value.  (Check for a recent thread here in c.l.py about 
> sentinel values and the use of object() as one.)

A better solution than a sentinel, in this case:

    def __getattr__(self, attr):
        try: return self.m_dict[attr]
        except KeyError: raise AttributeError, attr

 
> It might be possible to use the mechanism you seem to want 
> (automatically generating individual get/set methods, attaching them to
> the instance, creating a new property from the getter/setter), but that
> would involve significantly more complexity and magic, and would gain
> you very little (if anything).

Complete agreement here -- __getattr__ is clearly the way to go for this
specific requirement.


Alex


From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Tue Oct 26 11:16:12 2004
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:16:12 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
References: <mailman.5444.1098730843.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <874qkhfr2b.fsf@localhost.localdomain.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>

BRENDA.HARVEY at usbank.com writes:

> I will be out of the office starting  10/25/2004 and will not return until
> 11/01/2004.
>
> If you should need assistance from Human Resources in my absence, please
> call Kerri Constans at  (503) 275-3454.    The Employee Service Center can
> be reached at 1-800-806-7009 for questions regarding Payroll, Benefits and
> Leaves of Absence.   Thank you!

Someone really should call that 1-800 number...

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct  6 15:13:08 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:13:08 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4431.1097081798.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>	<UWt8d.3156$UP1.2886@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4352.1096990836.5135.python-list@python.org>	<tyfbrfgcoa4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<mailman.4431.1097081798.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10m8gqrtj31kndc@corp.supernews.com>

Arich Chanachai wrote:

> <SNIP>

>> You mean some refinement of this sort of thing:
>>
>>    class X(object):
>>           a = "lives in X"
>>           def __getattr__(self, name):
>>            return getattr(U,name)
>>       class U(object):
>>           b = "lives in Y"
>>       x = X()
>>    print x.a
>>    print x.b
>>
>> ?
>>  
>
> Sure, but what if I dynamically (at runtime) extend X to include 
> variable b.  Will it then print X.b or still U.b?


In this case, as I understand it, adding an attribute b to either x (the 
instance) or X (the class) will cause x.b to resolve to the new 
attribute, and *not* to U.b -- attributes are dynamically looked up each 
time they are used, and __getattr__() is called only when the standard 
lookup methods (instance, class, superclass, ...) fail. 

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Tue Oct  5 03:39:27 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:39:27 +0200
Subject: simple Tkinter Question
References: <10m3uc176vc3697@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <41624de0$0$17243$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Maboroshi wrote:
> Hi I was curious how I can pass arguments through a Tkinter Entry widget
> 
> say I have an Entry widget and a Button widget I enter text into the 
> entry and now I want the button to process the text is there a certain 
> command I have to use to assign the button to the entry or vise versa
> 
> anyhelp appreciated

Sorry, but you'll have to be a bit more specific than that. What is exactly your 
problem? Getting and setting the text in the entry? Assigning an action to the 
button? What do you mean exactly by "assign the button to the entry"?
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com



From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Sun Oct  3 05:35:14 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 02:35:14 -0700
Subject: Can't connect to MS Exchange (SMTP) from WinXP
Message-ID: <4f0a9fdb.0410030135.661a708c@posting.google.com>

Hello All,

I can't connect to our Excahnge server using smtplib from a WinXP box.
Connection to the same server from a Linux box works.

The code:
from smtplib import SMTP
s = SMTP("our-mail-server")

Works fine on Linux but gives the following error in WinXP:
raceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\cygwin\tmp\smtpchk", line 5, in ?
    s = SMTP("our-mail-server")
  File "C:\apps\Python23\lib\smtplib.py", line 240, in __init__
    (code, msg) = self.connect(host, port)
  File "C:\apps\Python23\lib\smtplib.py", line 302, in connect
    raise socket.error, msg
socket.error: (10053, 'Software caused connection abort')

Any ideas?

Thanks.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com>
http://tebeka.spymac.net
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys


From kbk at shore.net  Wed Oct 20 00:36:28 2004
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:36:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
Message-ID: <200410200436.i9K4aSO6026546@h006008a7bda6.ne.client2.attbi.com>

Patch / Bug Summary
___________________

Patches :  240 open ( +0) /  2661 closed ( +6) /  2901 total ( +6)
Bugs    :  772 open ( +6) /  4528 closed (+14) /  5300 total (+20)
RFE     :  155 open ( +0) /   131 closed ( +0) /   286 total ( +0)

New / Reopened Patches
______________________

typo in liblocale.tex  (2004-10-15)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1047577  opened by  George Yoshida

fileinput.py fixed clobbering behavior and added encodings  (2004-10-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1048075  opened by  Chris Connett

subprocess documentation  (2004-10-16)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1048341  opened by  Fredrik Lundh

Bug fixes and cleanup for decimal.py  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048728  opened by  Neal Norwitz

adding bool support to xdrlib.py  (2004-10-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1049151  opened by  Lars Gust?bel

PyOS_InputHook inconsistency on Windows  (2004-10-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1049855  opened by  Michiel de Hoon

Patches Closed
______________

Bad test for HAVE_UINTPTR_T in PC/pyconfig.h  (2004-09-01)
       http://python.org/sf/1020042  closed by  loewis

typo in liblocale.tex  (2004-10-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1047577  closed by  nnorwitz

Buffer overwrite in PyUnicode_AsWideChar  (2004-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1047269  closed by  lemburg

subprocess documentation  (2004-10-16)
       http://python.org/sf/1048341  closed by  effbot

Implementation for PEP 318 (Guido's version)  (2004-03-31)
       http://python.org/sf/926860  closed by  nnorwitz

rfc822.parsedate returns a tuple  (2003-04-01)
       http://python.org/sf/713599  closed by  nnorwitz

New / Reopened Bugs
___________________

Turtle.py hangs Idle  (2004-10-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1047540  opened by  Taro Ogawa

Turtle.py hangs Idle  (2004-10-15)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1047549  opened by  Taro Ogawa

stat documentation is incorrect  (2004-10-16)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1048234  opened by  libber ator

Memory leaks?  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048495  opened by  Roman Mamedov

SystemError with deque  (2004-10-17)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1048498  opened by  George Yoshida

Add pythonX.dll to KnownDlls  (2004-10-17)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1048681  opened by  Miki Tebeka

Doc typo  (2004-10-17)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1048756  opened by  Scott David Daniels

test_subprocess 2.4b1 fails on FreeBSD 5.2  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048808  opened by  Shalabh Chaturvedi

C-k does not work for curses.textpad.Textbox  (2004-10-17)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1048816  opened by  Stefan Heimann

Only "Overwrite" mode possible with curses.textpad.Textbox   (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048820  opened by  Stefan Heimann

unexpected floating point exponent behaviour  (2004-10-17)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1048864  opened by  Ruwen Hahn

codecs.StreamReader.readlines() broken  (2004-10-17)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1048865  opened by  Thomas Waldmann

call arg of lambda not updating  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048870  reopened by  kquick

call arg of lambda not updating  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048870  opened by  Kevin Quick

shutil.copytree copies stat of files, but not of dirs  (2004-10-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1048878  opened by  Thomas Waldmann

Registry not updated by 2.4b1 installer  (2004-10-17)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1048900  opened by  B Sizer

strptime doesn't work with %U  (2004-10-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1045381  reopened by  bcannon

os.rmtree error handling was always broken  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048941  opened by  Guido van Rossum

Install-time module compilation fails with 2.4b1  (2004-10-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1049003  opened by  Tony Meyer

Solaris: EINTR exception in select/socket calls in telnetlib  (2004-10-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1049450  opened by  Mike Brauwerman

smeared title when installing  (2004-10-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1049615  opened by  Jim Jewett

test_socket PORT conflict with boa-constructor  (2004-10-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1049816  opened by  Simon Dahlbacka

zlib module documentation wrong version  (2004-10-19)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1049826  opened by  Wolfgang Langner

rfc822.parseaddr is broken, breaks sendmail call in smtplib   (2004-10-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1050268  opened by  Scott Dossey

Bugs Closed
___________

Turtle.py hangs Idle  (2004-10-15)
       http://python.org/sf/1047549  closed by  tso

Error in the given example  (2004-10-14)
       http://python.org/sf/1046800  closed by  facundobatista

stat documentation is incorrect  (2004-10-16)
       http://python.org/sf/1048234  closed by  jlgijsbers

Docs for os, popen2 omit list argument to popen2() et al  (2004-03-01)
       http://python.org/sf/907457  closed by  jlgijsbers

Unable to install Docs - Linux  (2004-10-11)
       http://python.org/sf/1044872  closed by  jlgijsbers

distutils.util.get_platform() should include sys.version[:3]  (2004-09-27)
       http://python.org/sf/1035703  closed by  etrepum

SystemError with deque  (2004-10-16)
       http://python.org/sf/1048498  closed by  rhettinger

textReader: reading after close is a seg fault  (2004-09-30)
       http://python.org/sf/1038013  closed by  nnorwitz

Add pythonX.dll to KnownDlls  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048681  closed by  loewis

Doc typo  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048756  closed by  nnorwitz

C-k does not work for curses.textpad.Textbox  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048816  closed by  akuchling

unexpected floating point exponent behaviour  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048864  closed by  tim_one

codecs.StreamReader.readlines() broken  (2004-10-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1048865  closed by  perky

call arg of lambda not updating  (2004-10-17)
       http://python.org/sf/1048870  closed by  rhettinger

Registry not updated by 2.4b1 installer  (2004-10-18)
       http://python.org/sf/1048900  closed by  loewis

strptime doesn't work with %U  (2004-10-12)
       http://python.org/sf/1045381  closed by  bcannon

zlib module documentation wrong version  (2004-10-19)
       http://python.org/sf/1049826  closed by  akuchling

warning '"_POSIX_C_SOURCE" redefined' when include Python.h  (2004-10-13)
       http://python.org/sf/1045893  closed by  loewis



From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 17:20:18 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 21:20:18 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<vKKdnUxHIOPNzODcRVn-2Q@powergate.ca>
	<417d5862$0$45532$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<m37jpevade.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<417d6770$0$513$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <mai
Message-ID: <417d6e12$0$507$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-25, Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:

>>  Customer want's help with B.
>> 
>> Sales is _not_ going to let you tell Customer that you don't
>> provide support for B. 
>
> You *do* provide support for B.  Just not *free* support.  Win-win ;) 

We tried that.  We even set up a system to take credit-card
numbers over the phone.  It never got used. 

> Somehow I find your company sales department's failure to
> abide by your own company's written agreements to be a
> somewhat less than convincing argument against open source
> <wink>.

I'm not arguing agains open source.  I'm arguing against the
statement that releasing source code doesn't cost anything.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  PEGGY FLEMING is
                                  at               stealing BASKET BALLS to
                               visi.com            feed the babies in VERMONT.


From lbates at syscononline.com  Wed Oct  6 09:41:09 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 08:41:09 -0500
Subject: Job postings
In-Reply-To: <41634A6E.D0A49DCD@yahoo.com>
References: <41634A6E.D0A49DCD@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <u-mdnQeeyqdsaP7cRVn-sg@comcast.com>

Jive Dadson wrote:
> Where can I post a job description for a Python programmer?  He or she
> would have to know both application programming in Python, and should be
> able to port Python to a "friendly" operating system.
> 
> Thanks.

You might want to look at:

http://www.freerecruiting.com

Larry Bates



From andrea.valle at unito.it  Fri Oct 22 04:49:32 2004
From: andrea.valle at unito.it (andrea valle)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:49:32 +0200
Subject: canvas.find_...methods
In-Reply-To: <MPG.1bd4721391fc4c02989691@news2.atlantic.net>
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7k6ty4gom.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
	<MPG.1bd4721391fc4c02989691@news2.atlantic.net>
Message-ID: <4AF44FC4-2407-11D9-8242-0003939C968C@unito.it>

Hi to all,
I'm tweaking with canvases and items.
Everything's ok with .find_closest, but I cannot understand why the 
output of find_overlapping and find_enclosed is always ().
Here's my piece of code:

from Tkinter import *
from random import *

# The binding func

def coord(event):
	print event.x, event.y
	print c.find_closest(event.x, event.y) # ok
	print c.find_overlapping(0, 200,0, 200) #catch everything: always ()
	print c.find_enclosed(0, 200,0, 200) #catch everything: always ()
	print "\n"



root = Tk()
c = Canvas(root, width = 200, height = 200, background = "yellow")
c.bind('<Button-1>', coord)
ar = []
for x in range(10):
	ov = c.create_oval(0, 0, 10, 10, outline = "blue")
	ar.append(ov)

# random positioning of canvas.items
for x in ar:
	a = randint (0, 200)
	b = randint (0, 200)
	c.coords(x, a, b, a+10, b+10)
c.pack()
root.mainloop()
		

I think I'm missing somenthing. Any suggestion?
Thanks a lot

-a-
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From olepar at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 02:09:02 2004
From: olepar at gmail.com (Oleg Paraschenko)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 23:09:02 -0700
Subject: Python AST as XML
Message-ID: <1e015c2a.0410272209.3e831f94@posting.google.com>

Hello,

maybe of some interest:

http://pysch.sourceforge.net/ast.html

[quote]
XML can be considered as an external representation of in-memory
tree-like structures, and XML-related standards ? as methods of
processing such data. Some types of applications may benefit
from this approach. One of the examples are compilers with
theirs parse trees.

The Pysch distribution contains an example of representing Python
parse trees (abstract syntax trees, AST) as XML and applying an
XSLT transformation to these trees.

At the moment the whole code should be considered as a toy,
not as a production version. Anyway, it works.

...
[/quote]

--
Oleg


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Mon Oct 11 14:50:35 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:50:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [OT] Where to host an open source project? Sourceforge? Who
	offers Subversion already?
References: <ckd61r$i4m$1@newshispeed.ch> <ckd728$288u$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <ckeklr$e45$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

George Yoshida <ml at dynkin.com> pisze:

>> I never could get acquainted with CVS. I like Suberversion, however, and am
>> using it now instead of SourceSafe (yep, I'm on Windows).
>> 
>> So the hoster should be able to offer access to a Subversion server.
>> Hmm, probably I had better asked, "where should I start my journey best?".
> 
> If subversion is a must-have for your project and you're looking for
> a hosting service like sourceforge, I'll bet BerliOS is the best
> choice.
> 
>    http://developer.berlios.de/

You can also host your project infrastructure wherever you want and use
one of open SVN repositiories (see list at
http://subversion.tigris.org/propaganda.html). Anyway, personally I am
really happy with BerliOS. Good support, nice people, many site
features.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From mariube+netnews+ at ifi.uio.no  Sat Oct  9 17:47:09 2004
From: mariube+netnews+ at ifi.uio.no (Marius Bernklev)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:47:09 +0200
Subject: help me
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>

chrispatton at gmail.com (Chris Patton) writes:

> Hey everybody. I am writing a program that requires the user to make
> the name for variables inside the program. For example:
>
>>>> exec raw_input()+' = 34'
>
> However, I don't want to have to use the "exec" statement. Thanks for
> any help!

Are you sure you don't want to use a plain dict for this?  And if so, why?


-- 
Marius Bernklev
<URL: http://www.ping.uio.no/~mariube/ >


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 09:20:12 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:20:12 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <sm8hipxx.fsf@python.net>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4866.1097680786.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zUcbd.32564$3C6.1308279@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4875.1097688444.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Arebd.33298$3C6.1330114@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<4qky5s8r.fsf@python.net>
	<mailman.4902.1097699077.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<sm8hipxx.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <864d370904101406206deb5064@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:55:54 +0200, Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:
> Yes, but a Python pogrammer wouldn't expect these two samples to give
> different results:
> 
> class A(...):
>     x = 1
>     y = 2
> 
> class A(...):
>     y = 2
>     x = 1

I sincerely dont agree with this argument. A *experienced* Python
programmer wouldn't assume that these two samples would give different
results, because he *knows* that ordering doesn't matter. But many
programmers would be surprised if they tried to iterated over the
fields and had them return out of the original definition ordering.
It's not natural; it's something that you have to explain _why_.
 
> which makes it explicit that _fields_ is a list, which *has* a certain
> order.  And for inheritance, it's easy and explicit as well:
> 
> class COLORED_POINT(POINT):
>     _fields_ = POINT._fields_ + [("color", RGB)]

I agree that it's clear, and this is not a strong argument that I
could use for my own case. My own approach has to handle similar
situations for nested classes, also.
 
> > It's specially important to point out that I consider the source code
> > ordering to be _explicit_, and not implicit, as some people may
> > possibly say. In fact, is there anything more explicit than that? Only
> > people used to Python dicts would say otherwise.
> 
> The point I'm trying to make is that too much magic most of the time
> catches you later again.  But that's only my own experience.

Agreed. But the lack of ordering (which is really a side effect of the
use of the dict mapping to store class attributes, and not a clear
design decision in itself) is also something that strikes newcomers as
a 'surprise factor'; in a sense, I think this makes the field even.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Thu Oct 28 17:14:53 2004
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:14:53 +0200
Subject: Writing a Python font viewer/manager
References: <clrkae$9uq$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <20041028211454.2A23.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

Bats wrote:

> Hello.
> On Windows, I used to have a little app that would let me navigate
> visually through my 20,000+ fonts and I could create groups of them for
> quick install/remove from the system. It was great to be able to type in a
> word (say for a logo) and then see it in all the fonts.
 
Perhaps take a look at gfontview - not python app, but may show you how to
access fonts.

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 03:24:43 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:24:43 +0200
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<%5E9d.7075$UP1.6600@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4167128b$0$538$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<YuG9d.7186$UP1.961@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1glgsb2.18pqhx5cl99c3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Grant Edwards:
> > No, he explained exactly what he was trying to do, and it had
> > nothing to do with encryption.  He wants to know if exactly one
> > (1) of the strings is the empty string.
> 
> BTW, another way to get that is
> 
> if bool(str1) + bool(str2) == 1:
>    print "one and only one of them was empty"

If this is getting into a many-ways-to-skin-the-cat context, I want to
make sure I get my entry in:

    [str1, str2].count('') == 1

Other possibilities (I think -- untested, and it's late here):

    len([x for x in (str1, str2) if x]) == 1

    '' == min(str1, str2) != max(str1, str2)

    len(str1+str2) == max(len(str1),len(str2)) != 0

    sum(map(bool, (str1, str2))) == 1

    not str1 ^ not str2

    (str1 or str2) and not min(str1, str2)

    not str1 != not str2

    str1 != str2 and (str1+str2) == (str2+str1)

I guess I'd better stop here because I can't actually _prove_ the last
one of these actually implies one of the strings is empty but I can't
find counterexamples either...!-)


Alex


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct 27 15:10:28 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:10:28 -0700
Subject: High volume websites using Python web server software?
In-Reply-To: <417fe1a5$1$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.5568.1098892567.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417fe1a5$1$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20041027115633.0B84.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> wrote:
> 
> Ian Bicking wrote:
> > I think he's talking about servers that server a higher-than-normal 
> > number of simultaneous connections.
> 
> Well, not necessarily so, but this is an even better description.
> I was looking for web sites with moderate visitor counts
> (where 'high' means Yahoo, Google, Cnn, and 'low' means a
> 200-user forum about automobiles) that are running on one of Python's
> web application servers / network servers.
> 
> If it's a site that uses an async I/O framework, and it actually
> does sustains the potential very large amount of simultaneous
> connections, even better.
> Actually, it doesn't even have to be a web site. A 10.000-user IRC
> server in Python would also qualify :)
> 
> Why am I asking this?
> Someone on a programming forum elsewhere was sceptical that you
> can create high performance Python network servers.
> I suggested Twisted or Medusa. He asked for example servers.
> So there you are :)
> 
> 
> Anyway I've got a few pointers from the replies already given.
> Thanks!

Using a heavily customized variant of asyncore, I have written a client
that can handle 500 simultaneous connections (default file handle limit
with Python is 512) on a modern (1+ghz) processor.  It is actually
limited by bandwidth and latency on our 100mbit connection, as the
protocol is fairly chatty.

We have benchmarked it (each command results in a delay of
.25/random.random() seconds, timeouts set at 30 seconds), and it comes
out to roughly 4.8 million of these connections per day on a single
processor (we are unsure if it scales running multiple processes on a
multiple processor machine, as 99% of the processor use is system-level
select.select() calls).

We are actually concerned with accidentally DOSing remote servers that
have less efficient server implementations.

Is that high enough volume?


 - Josiah



From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Wed Oct 20 01:01:34 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 05:01:34 GMT
Subject: POP text/plain
Message-ID: <20041020010134.07554.00002191@mb-m18.aol.com>

Ok, what I do for most email messages is get the content that is type
'text/html', which is 99% of my messages, and with string functions I can get a
string from that which is only html code.  But, for plain text messages, the
part which is text/plain doesn't really leave me with anything I can think of
to get a substring from that which is only the body of the message.  I always
end up with header and all when I display a plaintext message.  Any thoughts?


From roccomoretti at hotpop.com  Mon Oct 25 13:55:52 2004
From: roccomoretti at hotpop.com (Rocco Moretti)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:55:52 -0500
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>

kartik wrote:
> there seems to be a serious problem with allowing numbers to grow in a
> nearly unbounded manner, as int/long unification does: it hides bugs.
> most of the time, i expect my numbers to be small. 

The question is how small is small? Less than 2**7? Less than 2**15? 
Less than 2**31? Less than 2**63? And what's the significance of powers 
of two? And what happens if you move from a 32 bit machine to a 64 bit 
one? (or a 1024 bit one in a hundred years time?)

 > PEP 237 says, "It will give new Python programmers [...] one less
 > thing to learn [...]". i feel this is not so important as the quality
 > of code a programmer writes once he does learn the language.

The thing is, the int/long cutoff is arbitrary, determined soley by 
implemetation detail. A much better idea is the judicious use of assertions.

assert x < 15000

Not only does it protect you from runaway numbers, it also documents 
what the expected range is, resulting in a much better "quality of code"


From nomail at no.way  Fri Oct 29 14:20:16 2004
From: nomail at no.way (Bats)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:20:16 +0200
Subject: Writing a Python font viewer/manager
References: <clrkae$9uq$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <clu1fg$qkj$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Well, I feel a little stupid - I just found /usr/share/docs/PyQt-examples/
and in there I found some font examples - at least I have something to hang
my hacking on now.

Cheers.
-- 
Bats
~..~
(I can only post on weekends and rare times during the week.)



From bennie at rotzjes.nl  Thu Oct 28 03:56:20 2004
From: bennie at rotzjes.nl (Bennie)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:56:20 +0200
Subject: how come .insert() don't work
In-Reply-To: <4180a3e5$0$3624$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
References: <41801753$0$62043$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<41801852$0$189$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<41803447$0$41713$1b2cd167@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<qnkacu7qzbh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<4180a179$0$76514$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>
	<4180a3e5$0$3624$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <4180a625$0$76518$b83b6cc0@news.wanadoo.nl>

Eric Brunel wrote:

> Bennie wrote:
> 
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is a chunck out of my program:
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> from Tkinter import *
>>
>> class App:
>>     def __init__(self, master):
>>         frame = Frame(master)
>>         frame.pack()
>>                self.menubar = Menu(root)
>>         self.html = Menu(self.menubar, tearoff=0)
>>         self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.tekst_in('p'))
> 
> 
> You're using your tekst_in method before setting the attribute 
> self.tekst, so when the method code is executed, there is actully no 
> attribute named tekst; hence the Attribute error.
> 
> Move the previous line after the self.tekst.pack(...) line and 
> everything should be fine.
> 
>>     #    self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.tekst_a)
>>         self.menubar.add_cascade(label="html", menu=self.html)
>>                root.config(menu=self.menubar)
>>                self.tekst = Text()
>>         self.tekst.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=YES)
>>         def tekst_in(self, tag):
>>         tekst_tag={'p': '\t\t<p>\n\n\t\t</p>\n', 'br': '<br />'}
>>         self.tekst.insert(INSERT, tekst_tag[tag])
>>
>>     # This works
>>     #def tekst_a(self):
>>     #    self.tekst.insert(INSERT, "<p> </p>")
>>       
>> if __name__ == '__main__':
>>     root = Tk()
>>     app = App(root)
>>     root.mainloop()
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> The error is:
>> -------------------------------
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "test.py", line 30, in ?
>>     app = App(root)
>>   File "test.py", line 10, in __init__
>>     self.html.add_command(label="p", command=self.tekst_in('p'))
>>   File "test.py", line 21, in tekst_in
>>     self.tekst.insert(INSERT, tekst_tag[tag])
>> AttributeError: App instance has no attribute 'tekst'
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> hope this is enough info.
> 
> 
> HTH
But now he execute te self.tekst_in without user input.


From ryntatqwest.net  Fri Oct  8 10:34:04 2004
From: ryntatqwest.net (R Baumann)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:34:04 -0700
Subject: Can wxWidgets/wxPython 2.4 and 2.5 co-exist on same PC?
Message-ID: <MqOdnbIa_pf4OPvcRVn-ig@comcast.com>

I would like to be able to run Boa Constructor, which does not yet use 2.5,
but I would also like to work with Dabo which does.

Anyone have any ideas about how to accomplish this?

Thanks
Ruben




From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Mon Oct 18 04:09:59 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 01:09:59 -0700
Subject: detecting enabled network interfaces in win32
References: <a8dfce8c.0410162113.545a74bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8360efcd.0410180009.5962bd84@posting.google.com>

matt.torment at gmail.com (Matthew K Jensen) wrote in message news:<a8dfce8c.0410162113.545a74bb at posting.google.com>...
> In one of my "because I can" projects, I want to be able to see the
> enabled network interfaces on a machine. I have no clue as to how to
> do this. Any suggestions?

Try this:

http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/wmi_cookbook.html#ip_addresses

TJG


From grante at visi.com  Fri Oct  1 16:21:10 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 01 Oct 2004 20:21:10 GMT
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <415dbc36$0$13835$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-01, Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote:

> 1. ``os.system`` (and co): Shouldn't ``os.system``'s signature really be
>    ``os.system(cmd, arg1, arg2,...)`` rather than ``os.system(some_string)``?

No. It's just a wrapper around system(), so why muck with the
signature?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
SYSTEM(3)                  Linux Programmer's Manual   SYSTEM(3)

NAME
       system - execute a shell command

SYNOPSIS
       #include <stdlib.h>

       int system(const char *string);
       
------------------------------------------------------------------------

>    Otherwise ``some_string`` almost certainly will be
>    constructed by something along the lines of
>    ``os.system('convert %s %s' % (infile, outfile))`` which of
>    course is broken (e.g. ``infile = "with space"``). 

Maybe, maybe not.  Why add the command construction overhead to
os.system()?

>    I don't think it's even possible to do the right thing
>    platform-independently.

Sorry, I've no idea what you're talking about.  os.system() is
supposed to hand a string to the shell.  What that string means
is a matter for you and the shell to discuss.  How that string
is constructed is up to you.  os.system() has nothing to do
with it.

>    So why not just allow ``os.system('convert',infile, outfile)`` as a
>    backward compatible extension that "does the right thing"?

Because it's not possible to define what "the right thing" is.
You'd have to know both the semantics and syntax of the shell
and the intent of the programmer to figure out "the right
thing".  That's a pretty tall order for something that's
supposed to be a very thin wrapper around Posix system().

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'd like TRAINED
                                  at               SEALS and a CONVERTIBLE on
                               visi.com            my doorstep by NOON!!


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 14 02:04:05 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:04:05 GMT
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416d2af0.154298900@news.oz.net>
	<mailman.4909.1097704594.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416e05e5.210351359@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:56:32 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>I'm now thinking about how to use your trick, maybe combined with
>mine, into the same framework. I'll let you know if I managed to make
>it.
I doubt if it's a good idea to be dependent on such implementation details,
except to make throwaway prototypes of functionality with what's available.
> 
>> >Of course, we are now getting into corner cases that show how much are
>> >we pushing class  statements in Python. The _sane_ way to make it all
>> >work would be to have a hook to provide a user-defined dict to the
>> >class locals() dir; aternatively, the natice dict() could provide a
>> Interestingly, you can pass a dict subtype instance as the last arg to type, but
>> it seems just to grab the instance's base dict. I.e., you apparently can't
>> get the subtype instance back as .__dict__. Oh well ;-)
> 
>I don't get it; would you mind to explain it better? Did you test it?
I just did an experiment:

 >>> class CD(dict):
 ...     def __repr__(self): return '<CD %s>'%dict.__repr__(self)
 ...
 >>> cd = CD(some='content')
 >>> cd
 <CD {'some': 'content'}>
 >>> T = type('T',(),cd)
 >>> T.some
 'content'
 >>> t=T()
 >>> t.some
 'content'
 >>> T.__dict__
 <dictproxy object at 0x00901090>

... not <CD {'some': 'content', ...}> in any form, AFAICS. I.e., it acts like
I just did T = type('T',(), {'some':'content')}

IOW, I think type must just extract the contents from the supplied dict or dict subtype.
I wonder what method one should override to customize the content extraction, or if that's possible.

So T.__dict__ seems to be a new container with its own dict methods...
 >>> T.__dict__.items()
 [('__dict__', <attribute '__dict__' of 'T' objects>), ('__weakref__', <attribute '__weakref__' o
 f 'T' objects>), ('__module__', '__main__'), ('some', 'content'), ('__doc__', None)]
 >>> T.__dict__.__class__
 <type 'dictproxy'>


>
>> >ordered interface (but then it wouldn't be a simple hash mapping, a
>> >more complex structure such as a tree would be needed). Both are far
>> >from happening in Python 2.x, IMHO... and I really doubt if dicts will
>> >ever be changed to accomodate ordering, even in Python 3.0. Too much
>> >hassle for too little gain. A hook function seems to be more sensible.
>>     class C(object, cdict=myDict): pass ??
> 
>My best bet is something like metaclasses implemented as class
>decorators -- something that is read by the compiler _before_ the
>class statement is executed. Being a class (not a function), it could
>provide methods to customize some aspects of the class statement
>execution; for example, a __getlocals__() method, or something along
>these lines. and, of course, it would be able to put the __metaclass__
>name right into the locals() dict, which would make it backward
>compatible. The problem is, function decorators are only executed
>_after_ the function def is executed; and having class decorators work
>differently is a big no-no.
>
ISTM a metaclass is a lot like a decorator for classes. I.e., it is called
just after the class definition executes and before the name is bound.

They are both somewhat like atexit hooked functions. Except that the process
is not an OS process, but just a little segment of the current thread having to
do with building a class. If you looked at it in an OO way, you might have
an object that you instantiate and set up before kicking off its run method.
Then you could have properties that acccumulated chains of decorator functions
to do between the default construct and bind operations, but you could also
have other property/hooks to add e.g., pre-processing of the arg list being
passed to the constructor, and properties to hold alternate components such
as dicts etc. IOW, a big factory object with lots of knobs that ultimately
produces some custom thing. There ought to be some unified concept behind
this process IMO, whether the thing produced is a function or class or type.
They are all factories that compile and pull together pieces and glue or bolt
them together. The tough part is to make it fast with pre-glued assemblies
and yet allow custom bolting together of custom components.
Well, metaphors can only be ridden so far ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From nobody at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 13 18:47:12 2004
From: nobody at hotmail.com (Maboroshi)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:47:12 -0700
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <rY-dndTE6JxtMPDcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<rY-dndTE6JxtMPDcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <10mrc6jnbrggjcc@corp.supernews.com>

Peter L Hansen wrote:
> Maboroshi wrote:
> 
>> My question has to do with python and linux - I was interested in 
>> finding out what it would take to reimplement the Linux Kernel in 
>> python basically just taking the source code from linux and rewriting 
>> it in python Would this idea make sense to do - if so what would be 
>> the benefits of doing this and in what way would this not be a good idea
> 
> 
> Um, you're the one suggesting a re-write.  Doesn't that mean
> it's sort of your job to know the benefits of doing it?  There
> are certainly endless reasons why it's not a good idea...
> 
> -Peter

Um sorry I should say in your opinion what would be the benefits and 
also what would be the disbenefits

 > Um, you're the one suggesting a re-write.  Doesn't that mean
 > it's sort of your job to know the benefits of doing it?

I understand some of the benefits but not all

Cheers


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Oct 21 15:14:33 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:14:33 -0400
Subject: protect resources (images) within a pygame-program
In-Reply-To: <2289a427.0410211043.357032cf@posting.google.com>
References: <2289a427.0410211043.357032cf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41780A99.6090602@rogers.com>

Using ResourcePackage may help you.

Basically this provides a sub-package of your project in which you dump 
your resources.  You then use mypackage.resources.filename_ext.data as 
the source for your files.  This allows your data-files to survive being 
py2exe'd or zipped just as if they were regular Python modules (since 
they are python modules).  However, if you users want to edit them, they 
need merely download ResourcePackage (and get a version of your package 
that is stored in the filesystem (i.e. unzip your package)) and edit the 
source files.  If you want to just pack one copy in your game, then you 
can pack the .py files and let the users extract them using 
ResourcePackage's included scripts.

That is:

unzip yourproject
extract.py -f yourproject.resourcePackageName

To get the files in editable format.

If you mean, instead, that you want to have the files stored in some 
commonly accessible location, rather than in the program files 
hierarchy.  You can store the files in the user's Application Data 
folder (well, in a sub-directory of that).

http://resourcepackage.sourceforge.net/

HTH,
Mike

benjamin wrote:

>A pygame/python game resource question
>######################################
>I wander whether there is any possibility to compile a bunch of
>resources for a program, like images and soundfiles into a package
>like, let?s say "game.dat", so they do?t fly around in the programs
>folder und can be edited by everyone.
>Hope somebody can help me.
>  
>
________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Thu Oct 14 08:04:35 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:04:35 +0200
Subject: Is there something like Zoe in Python
References: <416e5e1d@news.mt.net.mk>
Message-ID: <416e6b6a$0$8680$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

You can use Hamster (http://hamster-fr.sourceforge.net )

And drive it, from Python, via COM





sample :



# -*- coding: cp1252 -*-

''' Exemple d'appel de Hamster, depuis Python
    -----------------------------------------
la fonction "exportgroupe" exporte, dans le fichier
texte indiqu?, un ensemble de messages d'un newsgroup.
(r?alisation http://mclaveau.com)
'''

from win32com.client import Dispatch
ham = None

def exportgroupe(groupe,fichier,ndebut=0,nfin=999999999):
    global ham
    if ham == None:
        ham = Dispatch("Hamster.App")
    grp = ham.NewsGrpOpen(groupe)
    if grp>0:
        print '\r\n','-'*70
        print 'Groupe :',groupe,
        print '      Messages, de',ham.NewsArtNoMin(grp),
        print ' ?',ham.NewsArtNoMax(grp)
        ndebut = max(ham.NewsArtNoMin(grp), ndebut)
        nfin = min(ham.NewsArtNoMax(grp), nfin)
        fichier=open(fichier,'w')
        for numero in range(ndebut, nfin):
            print numero,
            txtArticle = ham.NewsArtTextExport(grp, numero)
            fichier.write(txtArticle.encode('cp1252','replace'))
        fichier.close()
        ham.NewsGrpClose(grp)

'''usage :
    exportgroupe( nom_groupe, fichier_destinataire, [num_message_d?but],
[num_message_fin])
les param?tres entre crochets sont facultatifs.'''

exportgroupe('fr.comp.lang.python','c:\pg.txt')
exportgroupe('pare-feux','c:\pf.txt', 3000,3002)






From tchur at optushome.com.au  Mon Oct 25 23:44:06 2004
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:44:06 +1000
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <clkfda$77l$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <001701c4bb0e$0bc347a0$6401a8c0@emilio>

Robert Kern wrote:
> It's still phrased as Linus's interpretation of what constitutes a 
> derivative work and what constitutes normal use of the GPLed kernel. 
> He's specifically saying that userland applications are not 
> derivative 
> works not "even though they are derivative works, they are 
> excepted from 
> the requirements of this license."

Yes, you are quite right. As you imply, it would be better if the Linux
kernel copyright holders provided a specific exemption to the derivative
works provisions of the GPL as it applies to the Linux kernel. It is
surprising that this has not been corrected by now. But we stray off topic -
unless GPLed Python (or other) code provides specific exemptions, any Python
code which imports that GPLed code also needs to be licensed under the GPL
or equivalent if that code is to be distributed to others.

Tim C



From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 11:21:34 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:21:34 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <41624ded$0$235$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41624ded$0$235$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <4162BBFE.80700@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>
> Most of the questions are easy to find the answers to, by just 
> browsing the Python documentation. So it seems that you couldn't be 
> bothered to do any research yourself, but you are asking the newsgroup 
> to do it for you and write it up.
>
> That is why it seems rude.
>
> generally you will get better answers if it seems that you have made 
> some effort yourself before asking.
>
Thank you Max M, I shall keep that in mind.


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Oct 23 15:06:24 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:06:24 -0500
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <417A3F3C.2030703@botanicus.net>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<417A3F3C.2030703@botanicus.net>
Message-ID: <16762.43952.687623.866669@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    David> Skip Montanaro wrote:
    >> * Both attribute-style and dictionary-style access supported

    David> Can someone please enlighten me as to why this is a good idea?

I find attribute-style access much cleaner, but in some situations you have
config bits with non-identifier names.

    David> The abuse of __getitem__ or __getattr__ (IMHO) should only occur
    David> inside transparent object proxies and suchlike -- I see no
    David> relation between (key, value) mapping and attributes.

There's no abuse here as far as I can tell.  I'm using both the way they
were intended.  That I have attributes under the covers is irrelevant.

    David> I also have trouble with the __getitem__ idea, although I can see
    David> at least that this might make sense if you consider your
    David> configuration some sort of dictionary or array. 

Which is how I think of them.

    >> I wrote it more as an exercise and to satisfy myself that to deal
    >> with more general config structures than Windows INI files supports
    >> you don't have to fall into the XML tarpit.  I suspect it's not more
    >> featureful than Michael Chermside's example implementation though
    >> it's somewhat shorter.

    David> IMHO you are blurring the lines between complex data storage and
    David> simple INI files. Microsoft's history here was to move to the
    David> Windows registry - a concept that could be easily represented in
    David> the modern age as an XML database.

Here's where I'm coming from.  In the past year I started working at a
company that uses XML files as its config file format.  INI files wouldn't
do, because the information they want to store has more hierarchy than they
will accomodate.  XML is a disaster because the APIs for it suck for this
sort of thing and because although the file storage is ASCII, you often
can't read the contents without a lot of study.  Good luck getting people to
successfully edit such things by hand.  You're thus left having to write a
custom GUI editor for each application that uses the damn stuff.  Glade or
no glade that's just a PITA as far as I'm concerned.  I have better things
to do with my time.

    David> Again, I'll raise the point that this work is being done under
    David> the false banner of 'ConfigParser' -- this is the only reason I
    David> have come out of idleness, it has nothing to do with
    David> ConfigParser.

I see no particular reason to limit configuration file format to the one
Microsoft blessed, what 15-20 years ago?  If all you want is ConfigParser
but don't like its API, write a little shim class to provide you with a
simpler API.  I don't know what that API is.  Me, I want something more than
INI files and something easier to work with than XML.

    David> It is a new concept entirely. Could we reserve the name
    David> 'ConfigParser' for configuration parsers that at least in
    David> function or form resemble the original, like any sane developers
    David> should.

I suppose.  I see no particular reason to limit ideas about what is read or
written or how it's manipulated at this point.  Nor do I understand why the
name matter so much at this point.  Nonetheless, I changed the name of my
class from "ConfigParser" to "Configuration".

    David> If you agree with me on the above, then again I think you should
    David> first hammer out exactly what you *need* your new configuration
    David> system to accomplish, and then perhaps agree on an unambiguous
    David> name for it.

I wrote my Configuration class (note the new name!) based upon my needs
(which are based on my recent experience):

    * I prefer attribute-style or dict-style access

    * I need more than one level of sections

    * YAML and XML are too complex

    * I want it to be readable and editable by humans

Note that I don't use Windows.  I could care less about the format of actual
Bill Gates-style INI files.  I imagine for people who do need that stuff the
current module and class should suffice, perhaps with some tweaks.  Its
format is too limiting for me though.

    David> In the meantime, AFAICS the only implementation that deserves the
    David> name 'ConfigParser' so far is my own -- and I only wrote it to
    David> prove this point.

That's fine.  I renamed mine.  You can have the name "ConfigParser".  I'd
offer to help you trademark the name but I think it's been in common use too
long for that. <wink>

    David> As per a recent popularly read weblog entry written by A.M.K.,
    David> the standard library is aged and disorganised. The thought of a
    David> replacement ConfigParser[2] module that embodies an entirely
    David> different configuration storage concept doesn't sound like it is
    David> going to help this situation much.

Why not?  Like I said, there is a ConfigParser module that does the job now.
Keep it and move on to something better.  We lived for years with only the
getopt module as a way to parse command lines.  Now people are starting to
use Greg Ward's optparse more and more.  The two modules will probably live
in harmony in the standard library for years to come.  You have backward
compatibility and more modern thinking about command line parsing.

    David> I think the way forward here is to define the goals of a new
    David> configuration framework that supports sillyness like magical
    David> attribute access and multiple backends (with a first backend
    David> being an XML DB or pickle or similar), then additional 'mix in'
    David> features such as schemas, then after we have a featurelist, open
    David> the shootout again.

You call it magic.  I call it Python.

    David> Perhaps a PEP or SIG could be opened on the topic, and
    David> development could commence in a sane fashion.

You seem to think we're all loonies here.

Skip


From http  Sat Oct 16 02:36:25 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 23:36:25 -0700
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4920.1097716237.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4958.1097771160.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416eeb74$0$23209$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<x7oej3vddz.fsf@guru.mired.org>
Message-ID: <7x4qkvnp92.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mike Meyer <mwm at mired.org> writes:
> Haven't operating systems been written in most of those languages? For
> a sufficiently loose definition of OS, of course.

I'm amazed no one has mentioned the Lisp machine.


From indigo at bitglue.com  Fri Oct  8 16:44:09 2004
From: indigo at bitglue.com (Phil Frost)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:44:09 -0400
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <4166F64A.5080504@kzoo.edu>
References: <4166F64A.5080504@kzoo.edu>
Message-ID: <20041008204409.GA5869@unununium.org>

^ is the bitwise xor operator. Performing bitwise operations on strings
doesn't make much sense, so it's invalid. You can define a logical xor
function like so:

xor = lambda p, q: (p and not q) or (not p and q)

or equivalently:

xor = lambda p, q: bool(p) != bool(q)

On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 04:19:22PM -0400, dataangel wrote:
> I wrote a function to compare whether two strings are "similar" because 
> I'm using python to make a small text adventure engine and I want to it 
> to be responsive to slight mispellings, like "inevtory" and the like. To 
> save time the first thing my function does is check if I'm comparing an 
> empty vs. a non-empty string, because they are to be never considered 
> similar. Right now I have to write out the check like this:
> 
>    if str1 and str2:
>        if not str1 or not str2:
>            return 0
> 
> Because python won't let me do str1 ^ str2. Why does this only work for 
> numbers? Just treat empty strings as 0 and nonempty as 1.
> 
> Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for detecting if 
> two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for strings shouldn't be 
> supported. Am I missing something? Inparticular, I think it'd be cool to 
> have "xor" as opposed to "^". The carrot would return the resulting 
> value, while "xor" would act like and/or do and return the one that was 
> true (if any).


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct  2 11:53:06 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 15:53:06 GMT
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
In-Reply-To: <yfsacv5h224.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
	<cam7d.455$UP1.116@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<yfsacv5h224.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <C9A7d.1010$M05.151@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Thanks -- I didn't know about that (small wonder -- it's undocumented; no
> docstring and not in the manual).

It's also cumbersome to use and I worry that some day
it will disapper.  Does anyone actually use the 'commands'
module?

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 03:46:29 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:46:29 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<1098414642.736428.8940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1gm1x7t.w8k2hqrv300tN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jonathan  Ellis <jbellis at gmail.com> wrote:

> What is the biggest system you have built with python personally?  I'm
> happy to be proven wrong, but honestly, the most enthusiastic "testing
> solves all my problem" people I have seen haven't worked on anything
> "large" -- and my definition of large agrees with Alex's; over 100
> kloc, more than a handful of developers.

I have the experience, both with Python and with C++, and I can confirm
that test-driven development (with more code for tests, particularly
unit- but also system-/integration-/acceptance-, than code to implement
actual functionality) scales up.

The C++ system had about five times the number of developers and ten
times the code size for about the same amount of functionality (as
roughly measured in function points) as the Python system.

Type safety and const-correctness in the C++ system were of very minor
help; not 100% negligible, but clearly they were not pulling their
weight, by a long shot.

In both systems, the trouble spots came invariably where testing had
been skimped on, due to time pressures and insufficient acculturation of
developers to testing; the temptation to shirk is a bit bigger in C++,
where one can work under the delusion that the compiler's typechecks
compensate (they don't).

_Retrofitting_ tests to code developed any old how is not as effective
as growing the tests and code together.  It appears to me that the
experience you relate is about code which didn't have a good battery of
unit tests to go with it.

Lastly, I'm still looking for systematic ways to test system integration
that are as effective as unit tests are for each single component or
subsystem; but that's an area where type and const checking are of just
about negligible help.


Alex


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 15:12:38 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:12:38 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <278de0e.0410131104.2109521e@posting.google.com>
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<278de0e.0410131104.2109521e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1097694758.12092.288.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 12:04 -0700, Neuruss wrote:
> I've been playing with Booish a litle bit, but there are some things
> that I don't understand very well, and unfortunately, there's little
> documentation so far to read...
> 
> I wonder if you could explain with an example how the static typing
> and the type inference work in Boo.
> I'd like to know "where", "when" and "how" should I declare types and
> when I shouldn't.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure what you guys understand for "type inference". I
> used to think that it was a way to find out the types of the variables
> without having to declare them, but since Boo is statically typed,
> where does type inference fit in? How?

Um, despite my criticism of Istvan for jumping on an innocent
announcement, he does have a point (even if he presented it a bit
harshly): this is a Python list, not a Boo list.  A lot of people here
may or may not be interested in Boo, just as they are with Ruby,
Haskell, Lisp, et al, but that doesn't make it an appropriate place to
seek technical support on any of those things.  They have, or can start,
their own groups.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From duncan-news at grisby.org  Wed Oct 20 08:55:51 2004
From: duncan-news at grisby.org (Duncan Grisby)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:55:51 +0200
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
	<1glwcx7.1ad9rc01yl5w0sN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4174d660$0$4028$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<1glwiwv.13q0jwj15hcgoyN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <35c25$41766057$51604868$20060@nf1.news-service-com>

In article <1glwiwv.13q0jwj15hcgoyN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
 Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Eric Brunel <eric_brunel at despammed.com> wrote:

[...]
>> Just a precision to be sure no-one will be misunderstanding this: nothing
>> prevents you to use different CORBA ORBs for your different languages.
>> Since all ORBs use the same protocols and architecture, they interoperate
>> quite gracefully.
>
>Absolutely, as long as typical inter-ORB mechanisms (IIOP first and
>foremost, I believe that's the only standardized one, right?) are
>acceptable for your purposes.  The OP seemed to think that this couldn't
>possibly be the case for _his_ purposes and I didn't challenge that
>assumption.

Going further, if you want CORBA communication between different
languages in a single process, you basically have to use the same ORB
for all of them. There is no CORBA standard for binary linking between
languages as there is in COM. In theory, in some circumstances you
could do it, but they would still end up talking IIOP through the TCP
loopback interface. In practice, C level symbols often clash between
ORBs, making it fundamentally impossible. You certainly can't have two
different C++ ORBs running in one process, for example.

CORBA is just not intended for that kind of in-process
interoperability. If you absolutely have to have that, you have to
stick with just one ORB. omniORB allows efficient communication
between C++ and Python in one process, and I assume ORBit does too.
Unfortunately, ORBit has historically not been too bothered about
sticking to the CORBA specs, but it might be better now.

[...]
>> The OMG site has a good list of ORBs, free or commercial:
>> http://www.omg.org/technology/corba/corbadownloads.htm
>
>Very good site to check for anything CORBA, btw, so tx for posting the
>URL!  I should have dome that myself but didn't think of it, sorry.

Good, but that page is hopelessly out of date. I don't think anyone at
the OMG maintains it. If they do, they're doing an awful job...

This page has some useful information about the ORBs out there and
what they support:

  http://www.puder.org/corba/matrix/

Cheers,

Duncan.

-- 
 -- Duncan Grisby         --
  -- duncan at grisby.org     --
   -- http://www.grisby.org --


From drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com  Fri Oct  1 20:26:09 2004
From: drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com (drs)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 00:26:09 GMT
Subject: Close a socket externally
References: <Y9l7d.262597$bp1.228320@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<1096673569.579558.114260@k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <BAm7d.262606$bp1.36553@twister.nyroc.rr.com>


<bryanjugglercryptographer at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1096673569.579558.114260 at k26g2000oda.googlegroups.com...
>
> drs wrote:
>
> > I have a program which opens a socket server in a thread.  I need for
> the
> > server to listen on the socket for a certain amount of time (say, ten
> > seconds or so) and then close it, and am wondering if there is a good
> way to
> > close the socket other than sending it a message from another thread
> to
> > close itself.
>
> Yes, you can either set a timeout on the socket, or use
> select.select() with a timeout.  When waiting for new
> connections, a socket will select as readable when a new
> connection arrives.
>
> > That is, I am looking for a way to forcably kill a socket
> > from a second thread, not to send it a message to kill itself.
>
> The timeout/select solution is along different lines, but if I
> understood your initial statement of the problem, it's how most
> sockets programmers do that kind of thing.

My understanding of using a timeout is that the clock starts running only
when there is no communication.  I actually need a hard limit on the time a
socket is open, and while the best option might be to at least allow the
current read/write cycle to complete, I am not necessarilly adverse to just
cutting off the socket.

To explain, I am working on an agent based modeling project where agents
communicate and exchange over TCP sockets.  Agents have to "buy" the right
to open sockets, so I need an enforcement mechanism to shut them down when
their time expires.

I am not familiar w/ select, so i'll go look into that.

-drs




From rho at see.signature.invalid  Mon Oct  4 19:12:41 2004
From: rho at see.signature.invalid (Nigel Rowe)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:12:41 +1000
Subject: python vs c# [way, way, WAY OT]
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
	<1gl2qu9.1nj9i2s1yt9erkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cjrleo$mob$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <10m3m7726jgiv81@news.supernews.com>

Aahz wrote:

> In article <1gl2qu9.1nj9i2s1yt9erkN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
> Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Of course, linguistics has long been split between prescriptive and
>>descriptive orientations.  The long-term trend is definitely away from
>>the prescriptive (which centuries ago used to rule supreme) and towards
>>the descriptive (which isn't controversial any more, as soon as you get
>>into the actual professional practice -- peer-reviewed journals, etc).
>>How you "should" express yourself, after all, depends on your purposes;
>>the best a linguist can do is elucidate for you the likely consequences
>>of a stylistic or grammatical choice.  It's not an issue of "who ya
>>gonna call?" being ``better'' or ``worse'' than "whom are you going
>>to contact?"... if you understand the contexts in which either way of
>>expression is going to be clearer, how they're going to affect your
>>audience, and so on, you can _choose_ effectively between them.
> 
> "Contact is not a verb under this roof."

Why not?
  

 Main Entry: 2. con?tact    Pronunciation Guide
 Pronunciation: ", knt-, k?nt-
 Function: verb
 Inflected Form(s): -ed/-ing/-s
 transitive verb : to bring into contact : enter or be in contact with: a :
to press against : MEET, TOUCH <brake shoes contact the inside diameter of
the drum> : JOIN <where the line of ordinary low water ... directly
contacted the open sea -- U.S.Code> b : to make connection with : get in
communication with : REACH -- used often where the means is not precisely
specified <contact your local dealer> <the salesman contacted a few
prospects> c : to talk or confer with : INTERVIEW : apply to : APPROACH
<the first company you contact may not ... use your services -- W.J.Reilly>
<the department ... was contacted to learn of availability and costs --
R.C.Emery>
intransitive verb : to make contact <the point at which the two surfaces
contact> 

Citation format for this entry:
 "contact." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged.
Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (5 Oct. 2004).

-- 
        Nigel Rowe
        A pox upon the spammers that make me write my address like..
                rho (snail) swiftdsl (stop) com (stop) au


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Fri Oct  8 16:53:02 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:53:02 -0400
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <20041008204409.GA5869@unununium.org>
References: <4166F64A.5080504@kzoo.edu> <20041008204409.GA5869@unununium.org>
Message-ID: <4166FE2E.2070905@kzoo.edu>

Phil Frost wrote:

>^ is the bitwise xor operator. Performing bitwise operations on strings
>doesn't make much sense, so it's invalid. You can define a logical xor
>function like so:
>
>xor = lambda p, q: (p and not q) or (not p and q)
>
>or equivalently:
>
>xor = lambda p, q: bool(p) != bool(q)
>
>On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 04:19:22PM -0400, dataangel wrote:
>  
>
>>I wrote a function to compare whether two strings are "similar" because 
>>I'm using python to make a small text adventure engine and I want to it 
>>to be responsive to slight mispellings, like "inevtory" and the like. To 
>>save time the first thing my function does is check if I'm comparing an 
>>empty vs. a non-empty string, because they are to be never considered 
>>similar. Right now I have to write out the check like this:
>>
>>   if str1 and str2:
>>       if not str1 or not str2:
>>           return 0
>>
>>Because python won't let me do str1 ^ str2. Why does this only work for 
>>numbers? Just treat empty strings as 0 and nonempty as 1.
>>
>>Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for detecting if 
>>two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for strings shouldn't be 
>>supported. Am I missing something? Inparticular, I think it'd be cool to 
>>have "xor" as opposed to "^". The carrot would return the resulting 
>>value, while "xor" would act like and/or do and return the one that was 
>>true (if any).
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
Nice =D

But why no xor builtin? :P



From dw at botanicus.net  Thu Oct 21 17:38:41 2004
From: dw at botanicus.net (David Wilson)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:38:41 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, K.I.S.S. entry.
In-Reply-To: <4178294A.5060304@colorstudy.com>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
	<20041021203941.GA81142@thailand.botanicus.net>
	<4178294A.5060304@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <20041021213841.GB81142@thailand.botanicus.net>

On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 04:25:30PM -0500, Ian Bicking wrote:

> It's simplicity really seems like a combination of two things: (a) a
> simple INI file parser, (b) a multi-value dictionary.  With sections
> mixed in there somewhere as well.  I find sections to be a somewhat
> confusing metaphor -- should sections be their own object, or are
> configuration keys just parameterized (i.e., each key is really a
> tuple of (section, name))?

As per another posting to this thread, Microsoft-style INI files allow
multiple ordered values for the same 'key'. The parser works by creating
lists of (<key>, <value>) pairs for each configuration section. It is
left up to the user to decide whether these pairs should be represented as a
mapping (pass them through dict() and only the last seen key will remain
in the output), a list of (<key>, <value>) pairs (perhaps the reason why
you chose this module in the first place), or a set of string directives
of some description with a type attached, ie. the key.

    Example use #1:

        conf = ConfigParser(file('simple-app.conf'))

        kwargs = dict(conf.items('database'))
        module = kwargs.pop('_module')
        factory = kwargs.pop('_factory')

        db_module = __import__(module, globals(), locals(), [])
        db = getattr(db_module, factory)(**kwargs)

        ...


    Example use #2:

        for action, data in conf.items('setup-phase'):
            if action == 'assign':
                obj.assign(data)
            elif action == 'restrict':
                obj.restrict(data)


The ConfigParser could be considered a state machine who's state
reflects the contents of the last configuration file(s) loaded exported
via a set of methods and one short-hand notation (__getitem__).



> But that's really not so bad; whether those concerns are separated out 
> or not, I don't really mind either.  But one issue I see with this is 
> that it doesnt allow for very good error messages.  Because all the 
> parsing is done up-front, there's no information left about where 
> exactly the errors are located.  When you have large configuration 
> files, and cases where multiple configuration files are layered, or even 
> layering sections within a config file, it becomes important to provide 
> good error messages.

This module is designed to sit one layer below your input validation
routines. It would be a reasonable use to parse multiple configuration
files similarly to this:

    for pathname in config_pathnames:
        conf.clear()
        conf.load_file(file(pathname))
        my_application.config.load_and_validate(conf)

    ie. your configuration 'file I/O read' phase does not proceed to
    your next input until validation for the present step has succeeded.



> And then some minor nits: you don't check for the trailing ] on section 
> names (or strip whitespace), # isn't allowed for comments, and : isn't 
> allowed in place of =.  Also, line continuation isn't provided for.

I was concious of your first nit, but as a first draft I do not mind the
current behaviour. I do not strip whitespace at present as I have no
clear at-hand definition of either a) Microsoft's whitespace stripping
behaviour and b) Microsoft's comment-on-key-value-line stripping
strategy. I believe GetPrivateProfileString on win32 may also deal with
quotes.

Thanks for your review,


David.

-- 
Dance like you're not being watched,
Work like you don't need the money,
Fuck like you're on camera,
Love like you've never been hurt.


From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct  5 16:08:03 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:08:03 GMT
Subject: Modules aren't first-class values (was: New to Python: Features)
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nnab32-ud.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Richard Blackwood  <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>question could have been answered in the docs, true.  But modules for 
>example, the docs don't tell me at all that I can use modules as 
>variables and that I can pass them into and out of functions/methods. 
			.
			.
			.
I've seen you assert this a couple of times.  I haven't been
able to spot the revelation in this thread which inspired you
to it.  I suspect there's a confusion somewhere.  Modules
are *not* first-class values, although their names are.  It
sounds as though the standard documentation lacks something
in regard to modules, but I don't know what it is.  If you
present the idea in some detail, perhaps someone will come
up with an idea on better documentation.


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Oct 13 20:31:45 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:31:45 -0500
Subject: [Possible Bug-Python2.3.2] MD5 module?
In-Reply-To: <416DB53F.2020208@usherbrooke.ca>
References: <416DB53F.2020208@usherbrooke.ca>
Message-ID: <20041014003144.GF32019@unpythonic.net>

It works fine here.  When you use some other program to find the md5sum
of a file, does it have a trailing newline?  Your example code doesn't.

[jepler at sofa jepler]$ printf a | md5sum
0cc175b9c0f1b6a831c399e269772661  -
>>> import md5
>>> m = md5.new()
>>> m.update("a")
>>> print m.hexdigest()
0cc175b9c0f1b6a831c399e269772661

If the string you want to find the md5sum of has a newline, you'll get a
different hash value:
>>> m = md5.new(); m.update("a\n"); print m.hexdigest()
60b725f10c9c85c70d97880dfe8191b3
$ echo a | md5sum
60b725f10c9c85c70d97880dfe8191b3  -

If you are working with files on windows, be sure to open them with the
"b" flag.

Jeff
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From secun at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 25 11:51:10 2004
From: secun at yahoo.com (ChrisH)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:51:10 GMT
Subject: Getting errors from popen in Windows
Message-ID: <MPG.1be6eb2862a3397989692@news2.atlantic.net>


Is there a way in python to run a DOS command and have it return any errors that occur? I've 
tried some of the different versions of peopen as well as the code listed below and none of 
them give me the error that is displayed when I run the command from a prompt.

(Python 2.3, win32all, Windows NT/2K/XP)



strExec = 'copy "z:\MS Exchange Settings.NK2" "%USERPROFILE%\Application Data\Microsoft
\Outlook\"'
    outdata=''
    proc = os.popen(strExec)
    while 1:
        line = proc.readline()
        if line:
            print line
            outdata=outdata+line
        else:
            break 


Thanks for the help,
Chris


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 00:25:07 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 21:25:07 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> kartik <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > there seems to be a serious problem with allowing numbers to grow in a
> > nearly unbounded manner, as int/long unification does: it hides bugs.
> 
> So does allowing strings to be any length.
> 
> > most of the time, i expect my numbers to be small. 2**31 is good
> > enough for most uses of variables, and when more is needed, 2**63
> > should do most of the time.
> 
> Most of the time, I expect my strings to be short.  1000 characters is
> good enough for most uses of strings, and when more is needed, a million
> should do most of the time.
> 
> > granted, unification allows code to work for larger numbers than
> > foreseen (as PEP 237 states) but i feel the potential for more
> > undetected bugs outweighs this benefit.
> 
> Granted, unlimited string length allows code to work for longer strings
> than foreseen (as common sense states) but (if you're consistent) you
> feel the potential for more undetected bugs outweighs this benefit.
> 
> 
> By this parallel, I intend to communicate that (and part of why) I
> consider your observations to be totally without merit.

integers are used in different ways from strings. i may expect file
paths to be around 100 characters, and if i get a 500-character path,
i have no problem just because of the length. but if a person's age is
500 where i expect it to be less than 100, then **definitely**
something's wrong.

as another example, using too long a string as an index into a
dictionary is not a problem (true, the dictionary may not have a
mapping, but i have the same issue with a short string). but too long
an index into a list rewards me with an exception.

as i look at my code, i rarely have an issue with string sizes, but if
an integer variable gets very large (say > 2**31 or 2**63), it
generally reflects a bug in my code.

i suggest u base your comments on real code, rather than reasoning in
an abstract manner from your ivory tower.

-kartik


From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Mon Oct 25 11:37:31 2004
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:37:31 +0100 (BST)
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <21114.82.68.80.137.1098718651.squirrel@82.68.80.137>

> Let's say I use a GPL'd python module (e.g. something installed
> in site-packages) in an application.
>
> Let's also say I use py2exe to package and distribute said
> application.
>
> Is what I'm distributing a "derived work" of the GPL'd python?
> Or is py2exe's packaging of the module's .pyc file and my
> application code's .pyc files a "mere aggregation" so that I
> only have to provide source code for the GPL'ed module and not
> for my application code?
>
> IOW, do I have to GPL my application code and distribute source
> code for it?

I hate trying to answer questions like this (IANAL etc), but here goes...

If your code imports a GPL module then it is a derived work in the same
way that C code linked against a GPL library is a derived work. If you
want to distribute your code then you must use a GPL compatible license.
py2exe doesn't make any difference to what you can and cannot do.

Phil



From werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com  Thu Oct 28 07:45:17 2004
From: werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com (Werner Merkl)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:45:17 +0200
Subject: py2exe and CD-ROM ISO Level 1
Message-ID: <clqm4e$jd8$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>

Hi,


[still looking for a solution]

we have written a Python EXE program, which should run via AUTORUN.INF
from a CD/DVD (Windows of course).

For this CD/DVD we us a imaging tool from Microsoft, which seam to 
generate a pure ISO 9660 level 1 image.

This means:
  - Only upper case letters A-Z and numbers 0-9
  - 8.3 file names

For Python 2.2 and py2exe 0.4.1 this worked fine. Today, it does not.

So:
  - Is there an option to generate a py2exe program with PYTHONCASE set?
  - Or do I need a wrapper? (My own C program, setting the environment
             and then starting the Python EXE program.)
  - Is there a tricky way to start up with code like
       "import OS as os"?
  - May I use my own case insensitive importer?
  - Or do I need to recompile Python?


Thanks in advance
Werner


From dvkeeney at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 10:27:52 2004
From: dvkeeney at gmail.com (David Keeney)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 07:27:52 -0700
Subject: __author__
Message-ID: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>

I see this set (or similar) of variables in various modules I read. 
They are found near the top of each module file, outside of any class
or function definitions.

"
__author__ = "Software Authors Name"
__copyright__ = "Copyright (C) 2004 Author Name"
__license__ = "Public Domain"
__version__ = "1.0"
"

What is the function of this set of variables?  I assume there are
software products that use these, (Python itself, perhaps), that
expect to find certain variables explained.

What are the expected variables, other than the ones listed above, and
what software would I expect to use them?

David


From bokr at oz.net  Sat Oct 23 18:33:05 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:33:05 GMT
Subject: backslash plague
References: <2tt4b2F24cffeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1gm2tuh.sg3fl11rm2newN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <417ad0d7.591943519@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:20:30 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Luis P. Mendes <luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt> wrote:
>    ...
>> I've already read many pages on this but I'm not able to separate the
>> string 'R0\1.2646\1.2649\D' in four elements, using the \ as the separator.
>
>x = r'R0\1.2646\1.2649\D'
>elements = x.split('\\')
>
>> and why must I write two '' after the \?  If I hadn't used r I would
>> understand...
>
>A raw literal can't end with an odd number of backslashes (_some_ way
>has to be there to escape the quote char, after all).
>
Hm, just had the thought that something analogous to HDLC bit-stuffing
could be used. IIRC bitstreams had escape flags composed of 5 successive bits,
and if you wanted to transmit 5 successive data bits, you just added an extra bit
at the end to make 6 to show that the five did not comprise a flag. The extra bits
would get dropped on decoding when a 6th 1 followed 11111 and would be recognized
as a flag otherwise.

Translating this to quoted character sequences, we could have an alternate triple
quoted raw string format, with quote-stuffing instead of escapes. I.e., to quote
three successive quote characters, we stuff a 4th quote, which the tokenizer drops
as it creates the internal byte sequence string representation, so we don't need
escapes in the usual sense.

Thus (using f prefix to indicate flagged quote-stuffing syntax) you could write:

    x = f'''c:\whatever\'''

and to quote the line above (without taking advantage of alternate quotes):

    q = f'''    x = f''''c:\whatever\'''''''
         ^^^         ^^^|            ^^^|^^^

where ^^^ is flag and | indicates a stuffed quote that
makes the previous otherwise-flag into three quotes in the data.
You could quote again (using same type quote for illustrative purposes
again, since oviously you could do better using both ' and "):

    r = f'''f''''    x = f'''''c:\whatever\'''''''''''
             ^^^|         ^^^|             ^^^|^^^|^^^

(I think ;-)

I guess the worst-case data to quote would be a repeating pattern of
'''""" or """''' since neither type of quote character would give an
advantage, but 1-in-6 overhead is still not too bad, and it would be rare.

Is there a hole in this raw string quoting syntax?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 19 15:46:58 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:46:58 GMT
Subject: formatting time as milliseconds in logging module
References: <mailman.5181.1098204956.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417552ef.232031804@news.oz.net>
	<mailman.5185.1098210699.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41756ada.238154047@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:24:15 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

>
>> >In Windows: time.clock() will get you the number of seconds since you
>> >last called it, down to the microsecond (trim as you see fit).
>>  ^^^^ first, it seems (certainly not a delta since the last time.clock() call)
>
>Oops, word slip.  My bad, I meant first.
>
>> Don't know why the first value is not a pure 0.0 though.
>
>The C source tells us that in Windows, the performance counter call to
>guarantee that it has been started occurs before the counter call to
>actually get the number of seconds since the first call.
>
Yes I suspected as much. You are presumably referring to
-----------------
	if (divisor == 0.0) {
		LARGE_INTEGER freq;
		QueryPerformanceCounter(&ctrStart);
		if (!QueryPerformanceFrequency(&freq) || freq.QuadPart == 0) {
			/* Unlikely to happen - this works on all intel
			   machines at least!  Revert to clock() */
			return PyFloat_FromDouble(clock());
		}
		divisor = (double)freq.QuadPart;
	}
	QueryPerformanceCounter(&now);
	diff = (double)(now.QuadPart - ctrStart.QuadPart);
	return PyFloat_FromDouble(diff / divisor);
-----------------
which IMO really should be (untested):
-----------------
	if (divisor == 0.0) {
		LARGE_INTEGER freq;
		QueryPerformanceCounter(&ctrStart);
		if (!QueryPerformanceFrequency(&freq) || freq.QuadPart == 0) {
			/* Unlikely to happen - this works on all intel
			   machines at least!  Revert to clock() */
			return PyFloat_FromDouble(clock());
		}
		divisor = (double)freq.QuadPart;
                now = ctrStart;
	} else {
		QueryPerformanceCounter(&now);
	}
	diff = (double)(now.QuadPart - ctrStart.QuadPart);
	return PyFloat_FromDouble(diff / divisor);
-----------------
>
>> Maybe not even all windows. E.g., for NT that is one scheuling time slice,
>> but oher variants might have other granularity, IWT.
>
>Good point, though I think that 9x variants also had .01 second
>resolution.
I don't recall, but the old ~55ms tick was used a lot in the old days.
>
>
>> Unless your process is running with hard real time priority, you have to throw in
>> os multitasking and interrupt processing latency as well (try using the mouse to drag
>> a complex GUI window of another app around continuously while your test runs ;-).
>
>Now you are talking about external system loads and how they effect
>timings.  That wasn't the question.
>
True.

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From dd55 at cornell.edu  Sun Oct 10 13:35:03 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:35:03 -0400
Subject: module name not recognized
References: <ck6s3u$bp4$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <ckbrst$8k8$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

Darren Dale wrote:

> I have built two basic modules using distutils. One of them installs fine,
> but the other, I can't import modules from it. I've been pouring over the
> code and I cant find the problem.
> 
> I know the file has been copied to site-packages/mypackage, but I cant do
> 
> from mypackage import mymodule
> 
> Could I get suggestions as to why a module would be installed but not
> registered?
> 
> Thanks,
> Darren


Here is some more information. I tried changing the name of my package. It
was called simCTR, and stored in the simCTR directory, and installed
accordingly by distutils. import statements fail because the directory of
my test script is searched during the import request, but the site-packages
directory is not. 

I renamed the package to simctr, installed, and the import statements
succeed. I didnt want to make this name change permanent, so I deleted the
site-packages/simctr directory, tried to install simCTR again, and it
fails.

/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/simCTR:
total 64
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1248 Oct 10 12:56 __init__.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1952 Oct 10 12:56 __init__.pyc
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  7805 Oct  8 16:00 fresnel.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  8062 Oct 10 12:51 fresnel.pyc
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 10235 Oct  8 16:00 kinematic.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 14011 Oct 10 12:51 kinematic.pyc
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  3795 Oct  5 12:53 spaceGroups.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  4381 Oct 10 12:51 spaceGroups.pyc

/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/simctr:
total 64
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1248 Oct 10 13:17 __init__.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1952 Oct 10 13:19 __init__.pyc
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  7805 Oct 10 13:17 fresnel.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  8062 Oct 10 13:19 fresnel.pyc
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 10235 Oct 10 13:17 kinematic.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 14011 Oct 10 13:19 kinematic.pyc
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  3795 Oct 10 13:17 spaceGroups.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  4381 Oct 10 13:19 spaceGroups.pyc


Thanks,
Darren


From ville at spammers.com  Mon Oct  4 05:05:35 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 04 Oct 2004 12:05:35 +0300
Subject: Encouraging Python adoption in your organization
References: <40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6@posting.google.com>
	<4f0a9fdb.0410032146.6ac9055f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7is9qj1k0.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Miki" == Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at zoran.com> writes:

    Miki> 3. When asked about time estimation say something like "in
    Miki> C/C++/Java" it'll be around two weeks, in Python I can do it
    Miki> in less than one"

One *week*? More like one day for many classes of problems. What's
important is that often a small program that is not worth implementing
at all in C++/Java is trivial in Python, and so the diffrence is one
b/w doing stuff manually vs. having an automated solution.

    Miki> 4. Be ready for talk about run time performance. Due to
    Miki> modern hardware Python is "fast enough" and you can always
    Miki> recode stuff in C/C++ using the C API or just use psyco.

Yes. It's important to note that there is absolutely no
lock-in. Python keeps being used because it rocks, not because the
company is stuck with it.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Sat Oct  9 08:10:51 2004
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:10:51 +0100
Subject: proposals for having more fun with map
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410091223580.27361-100000@urchin.earth.li>

hi all,

i've got a few proposals to do, in one way or another, with the map
builtin. i'd like to hear what people think.

firstly, collections, and things that look like collections, should
support the call operator; the implementation should look like:

def __call__(self, arg):
	return self[arg]

then, you could use collections as functions. after all, collections and
functions are just two different ways of representing mappings (dicts are
general mappings, and lists are mappings of the natural numbers which have
a contiguous domain), so it makes sense for them to be somewhat
interchangeable. specifically, this would make it possible to use dicts
and lists as first arguments to map, eg:

details = {
	"surnname": "Cleese",
	"firstname": "John",
	"dob": 19391027,
	"birthplace": "Weston-super-Mare",
	"height: 1.95,
	"favourite work": "the documentary about lemurs"
}
template = ("firstname", "surname", "height")
info = map(details, template)

okay, so maybe you're not convinced, but this is something i find myself
wanting to do all the time, so i either end up throwing lambdas all over
the place to glue the dicts into map, or writing a little helper function
like so:

def functor(dict):
	return lambda arg: dict[arg]

this isn't hard, of course, but it's the sort of thing that ought to be
done once and only once.

there's a case to be made that function objects should also have
__getitem__, so they look like mappings, but that's harder, since they
can't really supply a keys method, so they can't be full mappings.
however, i do wonder if sequences could have a keys method, which would
look like:

def keys(self):
	return range(len(self))

so they look like mappings of a range of the natural numbers. the problem
with that is that the sequence and mapping versions of __iter__ are
incompatible. oh well.

secondly, map should work on dicts as well as sequences. map has semantics
that look like this:

map(fn, x)[i] = fn(x[i])

at the moment, x has to be a sequence; i'd like to allow x to be a
mapping. the implementation is a doddle:

def mapdict(fn, dict):
	mdict = []
	for key in dict:
		mdict[key] = fn(dict[key])
	return mdict

again, trivial, but if i'm writing this out in almost every program i
write, other people must be too, so it's worth putting in the core.

now, that function is a version of map for dicts; i'd like to see one
function which supports sequences and mappings. i'm not entirely sure how
you'd decide whether an input was a sequence or a mapping, though;  the
best i've come up with is using hasattr(x, "keys") to see if it looks like
a mapping (which falls down if we give sequences a keys method!).

thirdly, i'd like map to try to preserve the type of the sequence; if you
feed it a tuple, you get a tuple back, and if you feed it a string, you
get a string back. this isn't hard to do, but is hard to do well. the
simple way forward is to pull out the type of the parameter and try to use
it to construct a return value from a list:

def preservingmap(fn, seq):
	mseq = map(fn, seq)
	try:
		mseq = type(seq)(mseq)
	except TypeError:
		pass
	return mseq

however, this requires the constructor of sequence-like types to
essentially be a copy constructor; this may be too great a restriction on
programmers.

also, we'd need to redefine the implementation of __str__ for sequences;
at present, it's the same as __repr__, but that doesn't work in the above
scheme, since it's far from being a copy constructor. in particular, we
want it to be such that, for a string s, str(list(s)) == s. i think it has
to look like:

def __str__(self):
	return reduce(lambda a, b: a + b, map(str, self))

so that it just returns the concatenation of the stringification of its
elements. this isn't much use for the general task of displaying lists to
humans, but that's what repr is for. str is about converting an object to
a string, and this is surely the most natural way for sequences.

anyway, that's it. am i bonkers, or does any of that sound like a good
idea?

tom

-- 
Punk's not sexual, it's just aggression.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Oct  7 15:37:59 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:37:59 -0500
Subject: Graceful detection of EOF
In-Reply-To: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
Message-ID: <20041007193757.GF14039@unpythonic.net>

Write a file-like object that can "look ahead" and provide a flag to
check in your unpickling loop, and which implements enough of the file
protocol ("read" and "readline", apparently) to please pickle.  The
following worked for me.

class PeekyFile:
    def __init__(self, f):
        self.f = f
        self.peek = ""

    def eofnext(self):
        if self.peek: return False
        try:
            self.peek = self.f.read(1)
        except EOFError:
            return True
        return not self.peek

    def read(self, n=None):
        if n is not None:
            n = n - len(self.peek)
            result = self.peek + self.f.read(n)
        else:
            result = self.peek + self.f.read()
        self.peek = ""
        return result

    def readline(self):
        result = self.peek + self.f.readline()
        self.peek = ""
        return result

import StringIO, pickle
o = StringIO.StringIO()
for x in range(5):
    pickle.dump(x, o)
i = PeekyFile(StringIO.StringIO(o.getvalue()))
while 1:
    i.eofnext()
    if i.eofnext():
        break
    print pickle.load(i)
print "at the end"
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From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Mon Oct 11 08:47:15 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:47:15 +0100
Subject: define 'in' operator on lists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4693.1097494658.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <ckdl7u$m08$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<mailman.4693.1097494658.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckdvcp$82t$3@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Phil Frost wrote:
> [sjf]
>>I want to define 'in' operator (or any "magic" function) on list which 
>>returns True value if all of list (i.e. _list) elements appears in other 
>>list (i.e. L) in the same order and False otherwise. By way of example:
> You might find that the 'sets' module does what you need.

Those sets are not ordered.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From golux at comcast.net  Wed Oct  6 18:25:30 2004
From: golux at comcast.net (Stephen Waterbury)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:25:30 -0400
Subject: PySQLite and psycopg API confluence (was:  Re: [ANN] PySQLite 1.0)
In-Reply-To: <1gl9dev.1j87pnh1j1dlmvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4368.1097005231.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl9dev.1j87pnh1j1dlmvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416470DA.2000704@comcast.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> ...  (My secret dream is to have psycopg2 and PySQLite 2.0 support
> the same API -- at which point I will care little what the DBAPI does,
> since, unless a client twists my arm _and_ dangles bags of gold in front
> of me, PostgreSQL and SQLite are the only two RDBMSs I really
> need...!-).  ...

I wholeheartedly second that -- my favorites, too!  :)


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Oct 17 06:11:11 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:11:11 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <JZocd.1793$Ug4.1406@trndny01>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02> <ckr3j8$9fq$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<XNgcd.1933$B34.419@trndny02>
	<5Ikcd.5517$6k2.1064@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<pnocd.3098$bV5.2652@trndny07> <JZocd.1793$Ug4.1406@trndny01>
Message-ID: <3zrcd.6558$gy1.6075@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Chris S. wrote:
> Spoke too soon.

As did I.  :)

> However, I noticed rex still doesn't return multiple matches. For 
> instance, matching 'abc' to the given the patterns '#bc', 'a#c', and 
> 'ab#', your code only returns a match to the first pattern '#bc'. Is 
> this standard behavior or is it possible to change this?

This is standard behavior.  You can't change it.  The
only easy solution along these lines is to have a triangular
table of

   (pat1)|(pat2)| .... |(patN)
   (pat2)| .... |(patN)
   ...
   (patN)

and if group i matched at a point x then do another
search using the (i+1)th entry in that table at that
point.  Repeat until no more matches at x.

I don't know of any off-the-shelf solution for Python
for what you want to do, other than the usual "try
each pattern individually."  You'll need to make some
sort of state table (or trie in your case) and do it
that way.

You *can* use Perl's regexps for this sort of thing.  That
regexp language allowed embedded Perl code, so this will
get you an answer


% perl -ne 'while (/((.bc)(?{print "Match 1 at ", length($`), 
"\n"})^)|((a.c)(?{print "Match 2 at ", length($`), "\n"})^)|./g){}'
This is abc acbcb
Match 1 at 8
Match 2 at 8
Match 1 at 13

Breaking the pattern down I'm using "while (/ ... /g) {}" to
match everything in the input string ($_), which comes from
each line of stdin (because of the '-n' command-line flag).

The pattern is

  ((.bc)(?{print "Match 1 at ", length($`), "\n"})^)
|((a.c)(?{print "Match 2 at ", length($`), "\n"})^)
|.

That is, match ".bc" then execute the corresponding piece
of embedded Perl code.  This prints "Match 1 at " followed
by the length of the text before the current match, which
corresponds to the position of the match.

(If you only need that there is a match, you don't need
then.  Using $` in perl gives a performance hit.)

After it executes, the subgroup matches (embedded executable
code always passes, and it consumes no characters).  But
then it gets to the '^' test which fails because this is
never at the beginning of the string.

So the regexp engine tries the next option, which is the
"Match 2 at .." test and print.  After the print (if
indeed there is a match 2) it also fails.

This takes the engine to the last option which is the "."
character.  And that always passes.

Hence this pattern always consumes one and only one character.
I could put it inside a (...)* to match all characters,
but decided instead to use the while(/.../g){} to do the looping.
Why?  Old practices and not well-determined reason.

(The while loop works because of the 'g' flag on the pattern.)

You talk about needing to eek all the performance you can
out of the system.  Have you tried the brute force approach
of just doing N regexp tests?

If you need the performance, it's rather easy to convert
a simple trie into C code, save the result on the fly
to a file, compile that into a Python shared library, and
import that library, to get a function that does the
tests given a string.  Remember to give a new name to
each shared library as otherwise the importing gets confused.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct  7 06:56:28 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 06:56:28 -0400
Subject: literal hex value to bin file.
In-Reply-To: <6e07b825.0410070125.5b3e47a3@posting.google.com>
References: <6e07b825.0410070125.5b3e47a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DaKdnbopTNVBvfjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>

yaipa h. wrote:
> Sorry if this has been asked before, doing a search on c.l.p, I didn't
> find this particular use case.
> 
> I wish to use the struct module, in windows, to pack hexdigits in such
> a way that when I pack, say 0xa into a packed object, I can then use
> it to find 0xa in a binary file.

The question is unclear to me, but wouldn't just using "\x0a"
build a string (i.e. a 'byte sequence') with identical contents?
A "packed object" from struct is merely a string.

> Likewise, I wish to build a hex sequence from an Assembly language
> .lst (text)file so that I can search for that sequence of hex digits
> in a binary file.

Unclear.  Please provide examples of before and after cases
of each thing mentioned above to help guide us...

-Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Oct 30 02:24:08 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 02:24:08 -0400
Subject: Collating Text and Images
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5682.1099079081.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5682.1099079081.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41833388.4060700@holdenweb.com>

Greg Lindstrom wrote:

> Steve writes:
> The ReportLab open source kit is well capable of doing this, and will make
> your reports look better as well, as long as PDF is an acceptable output
> format.
> 
> Greg replies:
> 
> Indeed, the reportlab toolkit kicks butt!.  I downloaded it and in less than
> 4 hours I was showing off the proof-of-concept to my coworkers.  The merging
> of the two files is simple (though we are doing some manipulations which are
> not) and I am creating pdf files that may allow us to stop printing the
> reports off altogether (nearly 1000 pages per day).
> 
> Thanks, everyone, for the great suggestions!
> 
> Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
> NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com
> 
> "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.
> 
That's terrific! Thanks for letting me know how well it worked out.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 17 03:55:41 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:55:41 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02> <4171edbf.9519908@news.oz.net>
	<ZKncd.1779$Ug4.1245@trndny01> <4172158e.19710772@news.oz.net>
	<P0pcd.673$TU5.60@trndny06>
Message-ID: <41722276.23014182@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:18:07 GMT, "Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 05:50:49 GMT, "Chris S." <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote:
>>>Sorry for the ambiguity. My case is actually pretty simple. '#' 
>>>represents any single character, so it's essentially the same as re's 
>>>'.'. The match must be exact, so the string and pattern must be of equal 
>>>lengths. Each wildcard is independent of other wildcards. For example, 
>>>suppose we restricted the possible characters to 1 and 0, then the 
>>>pattern '##' would only match '00', '01', '10', and '11'. This pattern 
>>>would not match '0', '111', etc. I feel that a trie would work well, but 
>>>I'm concerned that for large patterns, the overhead in the Python 
>>>implementation would be too inefficient.
>> 
>> 
>> So is the set of patterns static and you want to find which pattern(s!)
>> match dynamic input? How many patterns vs inputs strings? What max
>> length patterns, input strings? Total volume?
>
>Patterns and inputs are dynamic, input more so than patterns. The 
>number, length, and volume of patterns and strings should be arbitrary.
Strategies for performance will vary according to volume (small => anything ok), relative
sizes of strings and respective sets of strings, assuming enough work to make you notice a difference.
patterns>>inputs => walk tables based on patterns using inputs vs patterns<<inputs =>
walk tables base on input sets based on strategic walks through patterns)
Max length of strings, patterns will make some things worthwhile if strings are small,
dumb if they are thousands of characters. Who can tell what performance tricks you may need
or not? Why don't you just try (^pattern$|^pat2$|...) for every pattern to rescan the whole
input for each pattern, and we'll worry about performance later ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From amk at amk.ca  Fri Oct 29 14:51:16 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:51:16 -0500
Subject: Regex speed
References: <2uff4eF2a7uskU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<DfadnVRMd6PiFB_cRVn-gA@speakeasy.net>
	<2ufgrhF29bb0jU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cK2dnZD65Iy5DB_cRVn-qQ@speakeasy.net>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:35:28 +0200, 
	Reinhold Birkenfeld <reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net> wrote:
> But my actual question is why Perl can run the same regexes in what
> seems no time at all.

Probably Perl's engine does some particular bit of optimization that
Python's engine isn't doing.  I have no idea what optimization that might
be.

> But /usr/lib/python2.3/sre*.py are relatively large for that; what's in
> there?

That code is the compiler that turns expressions into the bytecode that the
regex engine runs.  Having it be in Python only matters to the performance
of re.compile(), and that function usually isn't a bottleneck.

> You're right again. Is the pre module using the PCRE C library?

An extensively hacked version of it. Modules/pypcre.c contains the bulk of
it; pcremodule.c is the Python interface to it.

--amk


From hectorvd at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 19:39:46 2004
From: hectorvd at gmail.com (Hector Villafuerte)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 16:39:46 -0700
Subject: Strange exceptions in MySQLdb
Message-ID: <350f7230.0410131539.1cff6ec0@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I have been using Python 2.3.4 with MySQL 4.0.16-max-nt (through
MySQLdb) for months. Today this messages showed up:

Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no
attribute 'close'" in <bound method Cursor.__del__ of
<MySQLdb.cursors.Cursor instance at 0x0099C148>> ignored
Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no
attribute 'close'" in <bound method Cursor.__del__ of
<MySQLdb.cursors.Cursor instance at 0x009AD080>> ignored
Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no
attribute 'close'" in <bound method Cursor.__del__ of
<MySQLdb.cursors.Cursor instance at 0x009ABF58>> ignored

My scripts work just fine... everything is ok besides this messages
that mean nothing to me :(
Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
Hector


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 11 10:03:31 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:03:31 +0200
Subject: define 'in' operator on lists
References: <ckdl7u$m08$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<Xns957F72D5C6476duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<ckdvb6$82t$2@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <cke3r1$su3$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Michael Hoffman wrote:

> Duncan Booth wrote:
>>>>>def containedinsequence(short, long):
> 
> It's probably a good idea not to shadow the long built-in.

Relax. It's only shadowed inside a function that doesn't use the builtin
anyway.

Peter

PS: For me to make that U-turn it took GvR pointing out the obvious:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-July/045948.html


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct  5 07:34:41 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 07:34:41 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4311.1096951351.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Ovp8d.3155$M05.74@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4311.1096951351.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vu6dnfgkFdRNG__cRVn-hA@powergate.ca>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
[snip]
>> As a consideration to others you can do something like I
>> did above, to indicate that many lines were deleted, or
>> use some other way to trim the amount of quoted text.
>>
>>                 Andrew
>>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com
> 
> I expect you mean like the above snip work of mine.  I am not new to 
> usenet but I had the perhaps lazy occurance of forgetting to snip the 
> other post.  Thanks for the tip anyhow.

I want to make two observations:

1. Andrew is being *astoundingly* polite and gentle with you,
even considering the usual polite climate in c.l.p.  Consider
yourself very fortunate. ;-)

2. You (Richard) are being remarkably mild-mannered in accepting
the criticisms (which are wholly justified, mind you ;-) being
levelled against you, at least compared to the last ten people that
unwittingly did something similar.  If nothing else, you stand a
good chance of getting past this initial difficulty and
participating in the community instead of being ridden out of
town on a rail. :-)

(By the way, if you really are new to Usenet, please, please
go and read that "smart questions" essay, even if the suggestion
to do so sounds rude.  The context it will give you about the
Usenet community (to which the python-list is mirrored and vice
versa) will be very helpful to you, as will the advice it gives.

Anyway, welcome to c.l.p. :-)

-Peter


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 08:33:25 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 05:33:25 -0700
Subject: From dictionary keys to variables
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410110433.172a6c26@posting.google.com>

I use a module called COnfigObj to read my config files into python.
It exposes them as a dictionary.

I often find myself writing code like :

valuelist = ['name1', 'name2', 'name3'....]
config = ConfigObj(filename, configspec=valuelist)
name1 = config['name1']
name2 = config['name2']
name3 = config['name3']
.
.

Now is there any reason not to 'cheat' and use __main__.__dict__ to
create the variables ?

valuelist = ['name1', 'name2', 'name3'....]
config = ConfigObj(filename, configspec=valuelist)
import __main__
for entry in valuelist:
        __main__.__dict__[entry] = config[entry]

(The configspec is optional - but helps with ConfigObj).

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/at;antibots/pythonutils.html


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 00:33:52 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:33:52 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <41622430.2080200@cloudthunder.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>Had you read the tutorial, you would discover the answers to all of
>these questions, but I'll answer them anyways.
>
>
>  
>
>>1. Multi line comments
>>    
>>
>
>No.
>
>  
>
>>2. Functions as variables:
>>    a. functions can be stored in variables, passed as arguments to 
>>other functions, and returned as results.
>>    
>>
>
>Yes.
>
>  
>
>>3. Function nesting with proper lexical scope (i.e. closures)
>>    
>>
>
>Yes.
>
>  
>
>>4. Operator overloading (inc. the ability to define new operators)
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, check the operator module for names of operations.
>
>  
>
>>5. Can I do this?  print("Hello " .. "World")  --> Hello World
>>    
>>
>
>Not precisely.  You can do:
>print "Hello","World"
>print ("Hello " "World")
>print "Hello "+"World"
>
>and many other variants.
>
>  
>
>>6. Constructors
>>    
>>
>
>If you mean class instantiation, yes.
>
>  
>
>>7. "Chunks": as in a code block contained within a string, file, or 
>>delimited by some sort of notation (such as brackets) which can be 
>>passed to and from functions, stored in objects, with the option of 
>>local scoping of variables declared within it.
>>    
>>
>
>code = "print 'hello world'"
>glbls = {}
>lcls = {}
>
>exec code, glbls, lcls
>
>
>  
>
>>8. "Repeat-Until" as in :
>>    repeat
>>      line = os.read()
>>    until line ~= ""
>>    print(line)
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>line = sys.stdin.readline()
>while line != '':
>    print line
>    line = sys.stdin.readline()
>
>  
>
>>9. Generic for loops where " for i=1,f(x) do print(i) end" would print i 
>>only once.
>>    
>>
>
>for i in xrange(1,n+1,1):
>    print i
>    break
>
>
>  
>
>>10. Can I call an object's method as object:method(arg) and have that 
>>translate into object.method(object, arg)
>>    
>>
>
>class foo:
>    def goo(self, arg):
>        print self, arg
>    def bar(arg):
>        print arg
>    bar = staticmethod(bar)
>
>a = foo()
>a.goo(arg) #will print information about the instance and argument
>a.bar(arg) #will only print information about the argument
>
>  
>
>>11. Can I make dynamic statements and nature like with eval() in Javascript?
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, check both eval and exec
>
>  
>
>>12. Can I make calls to a function with a varying number of arguments?
>>    
>>
>
>Yes.
>
>  
>
>>13. Named arguments
>>    
>>
>
>Yes.
>
>  
>
>>14. Tables with built-in methods for manipulation such as sort, etc.
>>    
>>
>
>We call them lists.
>
>  
>
>>15. Table filters
>>    
>>
>
>filter(callable, iterable)
>
>  
>
>>15. Proper Tail Call (otherwise known as Proper Tail Recursion)
>>    
>>
>
>No, it kills tracebacks.
>
>  
>
>>16. The ability to call a function without brackets
>>    
>>
>
>No.
>
>  
>
>>17. Is the Python interpreter a JIT? Does it have a bytecode?  Is it as 
>>fast as Java?
>>    
>>
>
>There is a module called Psyco that does do JIT compilation.
>In the CPython implementation, bytecode is automatically generated.
>
>If you want to know about speed, check a benchmark site.
>
>
>  
>
>>18. The ability to modify the import/require functionality (how modules 
>>can be loaded)
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, you can write custom import hooks.
>
>  
>
>>19. Coroutines and threads (non-preemptive)
>>    
>>
>
>Threads, yes.  For corutines, check out greenlets or Stackless Python.
>
>
>  
>
>>20. Date persistence and serialization
>>    
>>
>
>This can mean any one of a dozen things.
>
>
>  
>
>>21. May modules be stored in variables, passed to and produced from 
>>functions, and so forth?
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, though it isn't done very often.
>
>  
>
>>22. Is the self parameter hidden from me as a programmer?  Can I 
>>hide/unhide it as I wish?
>>    
>>
>
>It is not hidden, in fact, you get to name it...
>
>class foo:
>    def goo(I_AM_SELF, arg):
>        pass
>
>  
>
>>23. Prototype-based OOP or the ability to extend a class without 
>>physically modifying it
>>    
>>
>
>We have unlimited subclassing.  If you want prototypes, check out
>Prothon.
>
>  
>
>>24. Manual garbage management
>>    
>>
>
>You can disable it, or force collection.
>
>gc.disable()
>gc.collect()
>
>  
>
>>25. A fully implemented .NET counterpart (I should be able to write 
>>Python scripts for both with the same code)
>>    
>>
>
>Check IronPython and PythonNET
>
>  
>
>>26. How easily can other languages access it and vice versa?
>>    
>>
>
>C and C++ are easy.  There is a TCL interface.
>
>Anything with C or C++ interfaces are arguably trivial to talk to.
>
>  
>
>>27. The option of mixing in static typing
>>    
>>
>
>Python has no static typing.
>
>  
>
>>28. Automatic type coercion
>>    
>>
>
>Certain kinds of things can do what is known as "type coercion" in other
>languages.  What kinds of coercion did you want to do.
>
>  
>
>>29. Is Python designed in such a way that I may merely "plugin" a 
>>C/C++/Java/D module which will then allow for mixing their syntax and 
>>perhaps even access to their facilities within Python?
>>    
>>
>
>You can call C/C++ functions in Python (a large portion of the standard
>library is implemented in C).
>
>Jython allows nearly transparent use of Python and Java.
>
>You don't get other language syntaxes, generally.
>
>  
>
>>30. Messaging syntax such as : [myColor setRed:0.0 green:0.5 blue:1.0] 
>>or [dog bring:paper to:me] and [[myAunt phone] setTo:[myUncle phone]] 
>><--- Nested messages and [dog perform:sel_get_uid("bark")] which is the 
>>same as [dog bark]
>>    
>>
>
>We don't do messaging syntax.  Combining messaging and object-oriented
>syntax would make for an ugly language.
>
>  
>
>>31. Concepts of Protocols (whereby one may organize related methods into 
>>groups and check whether a particular object implements the methods 
>>within this protocol), or Interfaces similar to those in Java whereby 
>>classes or objects which implement the interface (sign the contract) 
>>must implement the methods and attributes as specified in the interface, 
>>and/or programming by contract such as in Eiffel (see: 
>>http://www.devhood.com/tutorials/tutorial_details.aspx?tutorial_id=595)
>>    
>>
>
>No.  Test-driven development is the norm in Python.
>
>  
>
>>32. Support for unplanned reuse of classes such as in TOM 
>>(http://www.gerbil.org/tom/)
>>    
>>
>
>Subclassing.
>
>  
>
>>33. Function/Method overloading
>>    
>>
>
>Yes.
>
>  
>
>>34. In pure Python, can I change and add new constructs to the Python 
>>syntax?
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, if you are willing to work for it.
>
>  
>
>>35. May I modify the garbage collector?
>>    
>>
>
>If you really want, though it already works fine.
>
>  
>
>>36. May I implement control structures as object messages?
>>    
>>
>
>If you want.
>
>  
>
>>37. Dynamic dispatch
>>    
>>
>
>This could mean a few different things.
>
>  
>
>>38. Reflection and/or templates
>>    
>>
>
>Think subclasses.
>
>  
>
>>39. Unicode
>>    
>>
>
>Yes.
>
>  
>
>>40. Ability to call external APIs and DLLs with relative ease
>>    
>>
>
>Check pywin32.
>
>  
>
>>41. How easy is it to port my Python code to C/C++/C# or Java?
>>    
>>
>
>Depends on how experienced you are with those languages.
>
>  
>
>>42. The ability to assign a method(s) to a collection/group of objects 
>>[with a particular signature i.e.]
>>    
>>
>
>No.
>
>  
>
>>43. Embedding variables in strings like: print "Hello, World. Time: 
>>#{Time.now}"
>>    
>>
>
>t = time.asctime()
>print "Hello World %(t)s"%{'t':t}
>print "Hello World %(t)s"%locals()
>
>  
>
>>44. Case or Switch statements with functionality as such:
>>case score
>>when 0...40
>>   puts "Horrible!"
>>when 40...60
>>   puts "Poor"
>>when 60...80
>>   puts "You can do better!"
>>when 80...95
>>   puts "Now that's acceptable"
>>when 95..100
>>   puts "That the best you can do?  j/k"
>>else
>>   puts "Didn't take the test?"
>>end
>>    
>>
>
>No.
>
>  
>
>>45. Are all things objects in Python?  Do all objects have built-in 
>>iterators and the like?  i.e. can I do this:
>>    3.times { print "Ho! " }
>>    puts "Merry Christmas"
>>    
>>
>
>Not everything has an iterator, though many does.
>
>
>Next time, read the damn documentation.
>
> - Josiah
>
>  
>
I can't believe you answered all of them, thank you.   Sorry for pissing 
folks off over here.


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Oct 28 16:11:53 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:11:53 -0400
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <JKVgBls/K3xL089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <slrnco26s8.311.zach at fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>,
Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> wrote:
>
>Is it correct to say that strong/weak typing does not make a difference
>if one does not use any pointers (or adress-taking operator)?

   One effect of weak typing is to put more reliance on
operators.  In Perl, for instance the string operator `lt`
does a string compare to find that "10" is less than 2
(lexically) and the numeric operator `<` finds that "10" is
not less than 2 (numerically).  Nothing to do with pointers
at all.

        Regards.        Mel.


From contrado at iinet.net.au  Tue Oct  5 19:39:33 2004
From: contrado at iinet.net.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:39:33 +1000
Subject: Database Connectivity
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416330b5$0$1289$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>


I would recommend using firebird RDBMS on windows not access, youre heading 
for trouble

to make firebird adoption easier use a gui from IBPHOENIX.com

Hope this helps

"Aaron Bingham" <bingham at cenix-bioscience.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Sandeep Avinash Gohad wrote:
>
>>  Hi
>>
>>I want to develope a simple Database connectivity program with python.
>>I want to use MS Access as a backend.
>>Please guide me....
>>If any e-books,links available particularly for database connectivity
>>then please let me know
>>
>>Regards
>>Sandeep
>>
> First, consider if you really want to use MS Access for this.  In my 
> experience, this is mostly asking for trouble as Access is poorly 
> documented and has many bugs and misfeatures you will waste your time 
> working around.  In addition, Access DBs are prone to corruption if 
> accessed by many users at once.  PostgreSQL is a much more powerful 
> alternative, and version 8.0, coming soon, will run natively on Windows. 
> Of course, it is not as "user friendly" in the sense of having pretty GUI 
> tools, but since it sounds like you will be writing the GUI in Python 
> anyway, this may not matter.
>
> If you are going to use Access, Python Programming on Win32 by Mark 
> Hammond and Andy Robinson is an essential reference.
>
> Aaron
> 




From kirk-news at jobsluder.net  Tue Oct 19 19:06:48 2004
From: kirk-news at jobsluder.net (Kirk Job-Sluder)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:06:48 GMT
Subject: md5 and large files
In-Reply-To: <cpaacui8ggk.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
References: <mailman.5128.1098124728.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl19dr$nqo$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<41743897$0$24525$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<2tl2r4F20u7baU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cpaacui8ggk.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
Message-ID: <c6hdd.9911$5b1.7786@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>

Nelson Minar wrote:
> Tobias Pfeiffer <me at privacy.net> writes:
> 
>>I have no clue about what the md5 algorithm works like, but I'd
>>think one could prove that with an number large enough, every hash
>>occurs twice. At last, md5 is not random.
> 
> 
> MD5 is random, and a very strong form of random at that. But yes,
> the same 128 bit hash will occur for different inputs. The trick is
> that it's nearly impossible to construct an input that produces a
> given hash, or even to produce collisions. For more, see here:
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Md5


Actually, it turns out to be much easier than it should be to create 
collisions. It is possible that this analytical attack might lead to 
broader attacks in the future.  This is one big reason to transition 
from MD5 to SHA1.


From Anna at nospam.invalid  Sun Oct  3 04:16:06 2004
From: Anna at nospam.invalid (Ann)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 08:16:06 GMT
Subject: newbie permission problem
References: <wAL7d.99503$wV.12017@attbi_s54> <7sN7d.593248$gE.589623@pd7tw3no>
	<PUN7d.296691$mD.66455@attbi_s02>
Message-ID: <azO7d.404372$8_6.311894@attbi_s04>


"Ann" <Anna at nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:PUN7d.296691$mD.66455 at attbi_s02...
>
> "Sol Mumey" <smumeyyahoocom at add.dots> wrote in message
> news:7sN7d.593248$gE.589623 at pd7tw3no...
> > Ann wrote:
> > > I am new to python. I have a small program that
> > > deletes small jpeg files, but I am getting a
> > > permission error, even though I am the owner of the
> > > file and the directory has 777 permission. I have
> > > WIN XP Pro. I have mks toolkit "ls" command.
> > > Login name is "Philip"
> > >
> > > -------------
> > >
> > > 36      45      border_l_r2_c3.gif is tiny      <- printed by program
> > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >   File "C:\test2.py", line 28, in ?
> > >     os.remove(d) # delete the tiny files
> > > OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'border_l_r2_c3.gif'
> > >
> > > C:\>ls -ld . border_l_r2_c3.gif
> > > drwxrwsrwx   1 Philip   None     0 Oct  2 23:40 .
> > > -rwxrwxrwa   1 Philip   None   398 Oct  2 22:42 border_l_r2_c3.gif
> > >
> > >
> > Are you sure that the unix-style permission reported by ls are
> > reflecting the true permissions (and read only attribute) on the file.
> > We use Cygwin at work, at the permissions reported by ls, etc. are
> > meaningless with our installation (though that need not be the case with
> > Cygwin). From the commandline I think you can check/set this with
> > attrib.exe, if a bunch need to be checked/changed.
>
> Yes, I'm not so sure about the output of "ls" myself. (note the 'a'
> where I would expect an 'x' for the file) I did try the
> attrib command, but it only showed that the directory is "system"
> and the file is "archive". Also, I created the file via under my
> account (ls shows owner = Philip) and I can delete it manually with
> "rm" or "del" or with a perl script just fine. I also tried using
> "os.unlink(d)" with the same results. I found another command
> lsacl to list the access control list, it gives this: (YOGA is my
> workstation name)
>
> C:\>lsacl border-l-r2-c3.gif
> border-l-r3-c3[1].gif:
>  ACE: Allow YOGA\Philip            -
> R,W,X,A,DC,RE,WE,RA,WA,D,RC,WD,O,S
>  ACE: Allow NT+AUTHORITY\SYSTEM    -
> R,W,X,A,DC,RE,WE,RA,WA,D,RC,WD,O,S
>  ACE: Allow BUILTIN\Administrators -
> R,W,X,A,DC,RE,WE,RA,WA,D,RC,WD,O,S
>

I found the problem just now, the file is still open when I tried
to delete it. If I use

fp = open("filename.jpg", "rb")
im = Image.open(fp)

then I can close fp and delete the file.

How can I just use
im = Image.open("filename.jpg")
without having to use a fp




From ml at dynkin.com  Thu Oct 14 14:37:36 2004
From: ml at dynkin.com (George Yoshida)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:37:36 +0900
Subject: from dict to member vars...?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4962.1097776621.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4962.1097776621.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckmh17$29gi$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>

Christopher J. Bottaro wrote:

> Lets say I have a class instance with the following member vars:  var1, x,
> size.  Now lets say I have dict with the following keys:  var1, x, size. 
> Is there an easy way to *automatically* assign all the values in the dict
> to corresponding (member) vars of the same name as the dict keys?
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 

If class is a new style class, you can do it this way:

instance.__dict__.update(some_dictionary)

-- george


From jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Wed Oct  6 05:08:29 2004
From: jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:08:29 +0200
Subject: alternate function call syntax  (was: print - parameters ?)
In-Reply-To: <1gl6kaz.ik0adqe0jhkuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <2sf68hF1jj1mlU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1gl6kaz.ik0adqe0jhkuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4163B60D.8000705@igpm.rwth-aachen.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:
.....
> It's not really a "sort of thing", alas... print is a statement so it
> lives by its own rules (a Python wart, Guido's admitted that; maybe it
> will change in Python 3000... let's hope!).

Is there any chance that Python 3000 would allow an alternate function call
in addition to the standard function call
I'd suggest something along the lines of a TeX macro definition, e.g.

def integrate(x,y,z) accepts function 'from' float 'to' float

this must then be called as

from math import sin
....
integrate sin from 0.0 to 3.14

Note, the keywords 'from' and 'to' must be present.

It would still be possible to called it as
integrate(sin,0.0,3.14)

the general rule would be
def <function_name>(<argument_list>) accepts <type> ([<keyword-string>] <type>)*

Then 'print' could just be a standard function.

Helmut.

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From neil.benn at arcor.de  Mon Oct 25 16:41:43 2004
From: neil.benn at arcor.de (Neil Benn)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:41:43 +0200
Subject: [Fwd: Re: what are the most popular building and packaging tools
 for python ??]
Message-ID: <417D6507.5030600@arcor.de>

Steve wrote:

> <snip>
> (the suits are yet to be enlightened about
> the benefits of OSS).
>
<snip>
Hello,

         A word of warning, if you get a knowledgeable suit (hmm, I wear 
street clothes at work, does that make me a street!?!?) then they may 
start looking at reverse compilation.  This is something it it possible 
to do in most 'bytecode' languages - other bytecode implementations 
(java, .NET) use 'obfuscators' that will make your code unreadable if 
someone tries to decompile it.  To this end, I've not seen a python 
obfuscation tool - this is a real shame because it does mean I have to 
release my source code if I'm writing a commercial app.  To my mind the 
'make your client sign an agreement' policy doesn't always work, 
especially if I'm selling low value (sub $2K) tools where I don't want 
to go through the bother of waving a legal agreement under somebody's 
nose when I'm selling software (any more than a typical EULA) and I 
certainly wouldn't have the clout to enforce it!  This includes the EULA 
as well so you basically need a good licence manager.

   As to why I wouldn't open source my code - well what I'm doing hasn't 
been done before in my industry - if I release source code then someone 
can lift the ideas out of my code or simply bypass the licence manager 
to install multiple clients for the cost of one.  This means that I 
either have to write my licence manager in C or bridge out to another 
language.  Before you ask - I buy my music!!

   If anyone has heard of an obfuscator for python bytecode - let me 
know please.

Cheers,

Neil



From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Tue Oct 26 07:26:04 2004
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:26:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: comparing multiple copies of terrabytes of data?
References: <pan.2004.10.25.18.08.29.462743@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <cllc8c$5dc$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Dan Stromberg <strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu> writes:


>We will soon have 3 copies, for testing purposes, of what should be about
>4.5 terrabytes of data.

>Rather than cmp'ing twice, to verify data integrity, I was thinking we
>could speed up the comparison a bit, by using a python script that does 3
>reads, instead of 4 reads, per disk block - with a sufficiently large
>blocksize, of course.

>My question then is, does python have a high-level API that would
>facilitate this sort of thing, or should I just code something up based on
>open and read?

>Thanks!

Taking a checksum of each file and comparing them would probably be much
faster.  A quick test with md5 versus cmp gave me a 10 times speedup.  Though,
unexpectedly, running 2 md5 processes in parallel was slower than 2 in
sequence - could be the cheap'n'nasty HD in my desktop, normally I'd expect a
gain here as 1 process CPUs while the other is IOing.

Eddie


From raragues at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 23 18:54:32 2004
From: raragues at hotmail.com (ramon)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 15:54:32 -0700
Subject: saving a complex object to disc
Message-ID: <c4c6a891.0410231454.35772fb2@posting.google.com>

Hi!

I have a fairly complex object (with other objects as attributes
(which in turn, have other objects as attributes), methods, etc) and I
would like to save it to the disc so I can load it in the future. I've
been reading about pyckle but I am not sure if that's what I need,
since apparently one has to define exactly what he wants to save and
how (and gives errors if the object has methods). I'd like to save the
object as it is, and be able to get it from the file afterwards...

Can somebody point me into the right direction to achieve this?

Thanks,

Ramon


From robin at reportlab.com  Fri Oct 15 07:49:44 2004
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:49:44 +0100
Subject: Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4987.1097812131.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4987.1097812131.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416FB958.4070903@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

....On a related issue are the bugathons still going on. I don't seem strong 
enough to read through python-dev right now.
-- 
Robin Becker


From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Fri Oct  8 19:54:03 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:54:03 -0400
Subject: [OT] problems with css, moinmoin standalone and Firefox on Win32
 was Re: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <864d3709041008151026806fa4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4166F7C6.7050405@wanadoo.fr> <41670711.9040508@po-box.mcgill.ca>
	<864d3709041008151026806fa4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4167289B.8050404@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Carlos Ribeiro said unto the world upon 2004-10-08 18:10:
> On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:30:58 -0400, Brian van den Broek
> <bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote:
> 
>>So, if anyone is still following the thread and knows about why css
>>might work with IE but not FF, I'd love to hear about it!
> 
> 
> I'm using Firefox 0.9 (haven't updated to 1.0pr yet), and for me it
> works just fine. I wonder if it's really a CSS bug... in my case, it
> turned out that I was messing up with the configuration. You don't
> change the CSS only -- you have to change the templating code also. I
> really don't remember what I did, but after a few attempts I managed
> to pute everything together, and the new layout is *much* better (it's
> the one with a sidebar to the right, it's really nice).
> 

Marked OT and subject changed as this is really about moin-moin. Their 
list is much lower traffic and so far my request for help hasn't born 
fruit over there, so with the [OT] notice, I hope people don't mind if I 
pursue it here. If my hope is wrong, speak up, and I will drop it with 
apologies.

Hi Carlos,

thanks for the reply.

First off, unless it is FF 1.0PR itself (as opposed to Firefox 0.9) that 
is causing the problems, I'd suggest you do the upgrade. A few very nice 
improvements, mostly to find as you type, the updating mechanism, and 
support for live-bookmarks (RSS feed bookmarks). Some very cool stuff. 
And most extensions now support 1.0, too. Also, at the very least, you 
should move up to 0.9.3 -- there were, as I understand it, some MS IE 
sized security wholes in 0.9 which 0.9.1, 0.9.2, and 0.9.3 patched. 
Evangelism done, so:

System details recap:
moin-moin 1.2.3, Python 2.3.4, Firefox 1.0PR, pywin32 build 202, and 
WindowsMe ("ah, *there's* his problem!")

At this point, I'd be happy with *any* layout. It's not that I cannot 
change to a different css-based layout; rather I have no css 
functionality at all, not even the default style. I have an 
appropriately styled wiki when viewed through IE, and an ugly mess when 
viewed through Firefox 1.0PR.

By "ugly mess" I mean: no icons, no colouring, no nicely arranged 
horizontal menus at the top, etc. Instead of the nice icons for edit, 
view, diffs, etc. that moin-moin (as defaulted) puts up on the right 
under IE (and Firefox when I view a public wiki over the web) I get 
something that looks like:

    ______
* |_Edit_|
    ______
* |_View_|

etc, etc. where the lines indicate an ugly blue box around each link.

I've never worked with css before, and didn't try anything other than as 
installed. (That was a bit bumpy, as the docs for standalone install on 
Win32 on moinmoin.wiki are under construction. I might well have goofed 
something up.)

I did note that the instructions for configuring css say:

> If you wish to modify the default MoinMoin style sheet, it is a good 
> practice to create a new .css file and use the @import function to 
> import the original moinmoin.css file.

and I have no moinmoin.css file anywhere on my system (including the 
moin-moin1.2.3.zip I downloaded). :-(

Can I run my moin-config.py settings past you? My wiki is in 
C:\wikimoin\main. Following instruction on 
<http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnInstalling_2fStandAloneOnWin32
 >, I made few changes to moin_config.py. The changed parts now read:

# basic options (you normally need to change these)
sitename = "Brian's Local Wiki"
interwikiname = None
data_dir = './data/'
url_prefix = 'C:/moinwiki/main/htdocs'
#url_prefix = '/wiki' see note 1
logo_url = url_prefix + '/classic/img/moinmoin.png'

# other code left unchanged is omitted.

# for standalone server (see cgi-bin/moin.py)
httpd_host = "localhost"
httpd_port = 80
httpd_user = "nobody"
#httpd_docs = "c:/moinwiki/main/" see note 2
httpd_docs = "C:/Python23/share/moin/htdocs"

note 1:
I made this change after it was suggested on the IRC channel 
freenode/#moin. It didn't help Firefox, but did break css with MS IE. I 
also tried url_prefix = 'C:/moinwiki/main'. No joy.

note 2:
This was suggested on the sourceforge moin-user list, together with 
copying the htdocs dir to c:/moinwiki/main. No observable difference.

Anything look obviously wrong? Mind if I had a peek at your moin_config.py?

Thanks for any light you can shed, and sorry to any who feel I'm abusing 
this list. Best to all,

Brian vdB


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 10:23:03 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 07:23:03 -0700
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
	<4165ad9a$0$44853$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410080622.2343540d@posting.google.com>

[thanks but snip.. ;-) ]
> One alternative: (pseudocode)
> 
> Recieve request
> If no-cookie-received:
>    Set Cookie: "NEWUSER"
> else:
>    if cookie-recieved == "NEWUSER":
>       # We know they can send us cookies back
>       id = gen-id()
>       Set Cookie: id
> 

Yep.. this I understand and will try.
Thanks

> Then just log requests with the recieved cookie, trackable users will have
> a unique id, whether their IP changes, share a system, behind nat'ing
> firewalls etc. This allows you to track unique users that are trackable
> using cookies. If you have a particularly large number of users accessing
> your site you can tie in sampling (perhaps something like density biased
> sampling) in there as well something like this:
> 
> new-cookie = None
> If no-cookie-received:
>    new-cookie = "NEWUSER"
> else:
>    if cookie-recieved == "NEWUSER":
>       # We know they can send us cookies back
>       id = gen-id()
>       new-cookie = id
> 
> if add-to-sample-set(request):
>    tag = "SAMPLE"
>    new-cookie = current-cookie or new-cookie
> else:
>    tag = "NOSAMPLE"
> 
> if new-cookie:
>    Set Cookie: tag new-cookie
> 


Sorry... :-( don't get it.
What is add-to-sample-set(request) doing ? Is it simply choosing a
proportion of our users to sample ?

If this is only a 'do if you have too many users' kind-of-thing then
unfortunately it won't be a problem for me !!

> (Or something like that IYSWIM - ie get the user population to indicate if
> they're being sampled - again, this allows your users to easily opt out,

As above... I don't get it, so I don't see how it achieves this ?

> and also means the memory/etc required to determine whether to track the
> user or not isn't dependent on the number of requests your site gets -
> meaning that you can keep analysis costs for your site under control. If
> you've only got a small site this probably doesn't matter to you, but 
> worth bearing in mind).
> 
> The interesting thing about this from my perspective is that if you do 
> take a cookie approach like this, it actually allows you to figure out how
> much error there actually is between IP and cookie - rather than just guess.

One last question. You didn't explicitly say this, but I was thinking
of doing it anyway. Are you suggesting to store USERID *and* IP
address and compare the results of anylysing by IP and analysing by
cookie.... Sounds worthwhile...

Thanks for your help - very interesting.

Regards,

Fuzzy

> The other nicety is it allows your users to opt-out very easily - since they
> can either switch off cookies, or you can send them a "NOSAMPLE" cookie.
> 
> Also, at present comments in this thread revolve around "this isn't
> reliable because of x,y and z". If you take this sort of approach you
> can find out the margin of error and then decide whether you're happy
> with it or not. Also as you can see from above this doesn't really have
> to be a very complex operation (unless you're in a high volume scenario
> with lots of distinct users and need to add in the sampling aspect).
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> 
> Michael


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct 12 21:00:13 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:00:13 -0400
Subject: School Project, Need Help Fast!
In-Reply-To: <000801c4b0a8$e550f960$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>
References: <000801c4b09f$3f282260$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>
	<416C5832.7070909@cloudthunder.com>
	<000801c4b0a8$e550f960$6501a8c0@maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <416C7E1D.1070409@cloudthunder.com>

Gavin Bauer wrote:

>I understand that there are better ways, but I'm looking for easier... Do
>you have any ideas about the DOS preferences problem?
>
><SNIP>
>
DOS???  So you are in Windows then I imagine.  How are you calling your 
script?  If you run it in IDLE you will have no problem.  If you call 
Python first then call your script/module from there, you will have no 
problem.  Not sure exactly what you are trying to achieve.


From pcm at cpugrid.net  Tue Oct  5 00:45:14 2004
From: pcm at cpugrid.net (P.M.)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 21:45:14 -0700
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
Message-ID: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm working on an C++/embedded-Python application that will run on
multi-CPU hardware and I need to efficiently distribute the execution
of multiple scripts across the CPUs.  I'm embedding Python using the
Boost Python library.

My question is, how can I best parallelize the running of separate
autonomous Python scripts within this app?  Can I run multiple
interpreters in separate threads within a single process?  In past
newsgroup messages I've seen advice that the only way to get
scalability, due to the GIL, is to use an IPC mechanism between
multiple distinct processes running seperate interpreters.  Is this
still true or are there better ways to accomplish this?

Thanks
Peter


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 15:16:53 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:16:53 -0200
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl0bu9$6oc$1@news.sap-ag.de>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904101812162476af4a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:54:21 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2004 Oct 18, at 16:57, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
>     ...
> > def walk(self):
> >    """generator-based recursive tree traversal"""
> >    yield child
> >    for child in childs:
> 
> Btw, what are this 'child' and 'childs', _globals_?  I assume you must
> mean something like self and self.children, but as that may become
> important in further discussion it would be nice to be more precise in
> the example.

Sorry. It's pseudo code, but it's _so_ obviously broken :-(  Should
have taken more care...

def walk(self):
  """generator-based recursive tree traversal"""
  yield self
  for child in self.childs:
       transfer child.walk()

> How does the semantics of this differ from those of
>           for x in child.walk(): yield x

I was thinking about something along the lines of a tail recursion
elimination -- sorts of, I mean. Something like "call the child.walk()
code, but yield results direct to the original caller". So you're
right, this is just synctatic sugar, but bad sugar at it :-) (one with
a bitter taste, that is).

But rest assured that I'm now convinced that the original recursive
generator is the way to go, and the my discomfort with it is not
justified. It seemed weird at first, as if I was doing something wrong
-- having to loop over an iterator just to return its members. But
that's just fine.

> If the issue is strictly one of whether it's worth somehow making
>      for x in y: yield x
> terser (by a new kw, combination of kw, and/or punctuation) I guess we
> can discuss that (I just don't see the gain to offset the price of
> introducing new syntax and one more language thing to learn for
> Pythonistas and newcomers to Python).  If you mean something different
> for your 'transfer' then maybe you could clarify _what_...

In the future, and _if_ this idiom (recursive generators) becomes
common enough, maybe it's justified to talk about a new idiom, method
or keyword to support/facilitate it. Not now, really.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From marcus at deepfort.com  Wed Oct 27 12:53:30 2004
From: marcus at deepfort.com (marcus at deepfort.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:53:30 +0100
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d6e12$0$507$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<vKKdnUxHIOPNzODcRVn-2Q@powergate.ca>	<417d5862$0$45532$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<m37jpevade.fsf@g2ctech.com>	<417d6770$0$513$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mai <417d6e12$0$507$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <417FD28A.5000700@deepfort.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

>On 2004-10-25, Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>> Customer want's help with B.
>>>
>>>Sales is _not_ going to let you tell Customer that you don't
>>>provide support for B. 
>>>      
>>>
>>You *do* provide support for B.  Just not *free* support.  Win-win ;) 
>>    
>>
>
>We tried that.  We even set up a system to take credit-card
>numbers over the phone.  It never got used. 
>

That's another win, right there. :-)

I know, despicable human being. *creeps back under rock*


From hyeshik at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 13:51:18 2004
From: hyeshik at gmail.com (hyeshik at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 02:51:18 +0900
Subject: locale.setlocale problems
In-Reply-To: <2ED80487-1455-11D9-8A55-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>
References: <mailman.4194.1096709659.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415e7aaf$0$24565$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<2ED80487-1455-11D9-8A55-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>
Message-ID: <4f0b69dc041003105121c40785@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:26:47 +0200, Ksenia Marasanova <ksenia at ksenia.nl> wrote:
> Python 2.3 (#1, Jan  4 2004, 14:30:19)
> [GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import locale
> >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'nl_NL')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/locale.py", line 381, in setlocale
>     return _setlocale(category, locale)
> locale.Error: locale setting not supported

FreeBSD is very strict for locale names. You should write it like this:

Python 2.3.4 (#2, Aug 21 2004, 20:09:51)
[GCC 3.4.2 [FreeBSD] 20040728] on freebsd5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import locale
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'nl_NL.ISO8859-1')
'nl_NL.ISO8859-1'
>>> locale.format('%0.2f', 0.123)
'0,12'

> 
> > Python relies on the operating system here, so please bring
> > this up with your OS vendor.
> 
> Okay, I got it now. Thanks for the explanation.

There's a mailing list "python at FreeBSD.org" for this purpose.
You can subscribe the list at
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-python

> 
> >> And the last question: when I change locale in a Python application,
> >> it affects only the current namespace, right? I hope so... :)
> >
> > Not sure what a namespace is, in this context, but I guess the answer
> > is
> > "yes".
> 
> With 'namespace' I meant only the module when the locale is changed, so
> it not affects other scripts that run at the same time on the system. I
> misunderstood locale as being some system-wide 'registry' which
> remembers the changes in it. (have some vague, bad memories about
> changing locale in an ASP application... :-)

locale stuff are process-scope variable. (In FreeBSD, global libc
variable _CurrentRuneLocale). If you change the locale, it affects
all the namespaces/modules/threads but will not affect system
settings or other processes.

Hye-Shik


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 30 11:15:55 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:15:55 -0700
Subject: py2exe and window with info about error
In-Reply-To: <1mnxnbqn8bop3.dlg@cokolwiek.pl>
References: <mailman.5692.1099100508.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1mnxnbqn8bop3.dlg@cokolwiek.pl>
Message-ID: <20041030081311.0C1F.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Krzysztof Ksi??ek <mr_rysiu at go2.pl> wrote:
> 
> On 2004-10-30 03:33:28 Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > Is it
> > automatically happening if your script raises an exception? 
> 
> I think that is the reason. Here is the example of info from log file.
> It looks for me like standard exception handling. Since it can't write
> it to console, it writes the output to log file and and shows the
> information window.
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test-programu.py", line 3, in ?
>   File "ftplib.pyc", line 107, in __init__
>   File "ftplib.pyc", line 117, in connect
> socket.gaierror: (7, 'getaddrinfo failed')

How is your script being run?  Is it placed in one of the registry
locations:
HKLM/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Run
HKCU/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Run
HKLM/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/RunServices
HKCU/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/RunServices

Or is it run via shortcut from your Startup program group?  Or some
other method.

How is it being run?

 - Josiah



From bockman at virgilio.it  Sun Oct  3 05:51:17 2004
From: bockman at virgilio.it (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 09:51:17 GMT
Subject: Help - my Tkinter is broken
References: <NJB7d.16164$FZ5.2713@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.03.09.50.45.170085@virgilio.it>

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 17:39:57 +0000, Mike Moum wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm running Mepix Linux, which is a Debian based distribution. 
> Python-2.3.4 is installed in /usr/lib.  When I try to import Tkinter 
> into Python, I get the following error message:
> ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload/_tkinter.so: undefined 
> symbol: PyFPE_jbuf
> I've tried the following fixes:
> 1) Recompile Python from scratch.  No good.
> 2) Delete _tkinter.so from /usr/lib/Python2.3/lib-dynload, then 
> recompile.  However, when I did that there was no _tkinter.so rebuilt in 
> /usr/lib/Python2.3/lib-dynload.  I have sub-directories for tcl-8.4 and 
> tk-8.4 under /usr/lib.
> 3) Thinking that the compilation process is looking for tk and tcl under 
> /usr/local/lib, I created symlinks there to /usr/lib/tcl-8.4 and 
> /usr/lib/tk-8.4, and then repeated step 2.  Still no _tkinter.so.
> 

Last time I compiled python on Linux (it was the 1.6 ) in order to include
statically Tkinter (or other modules), you needed to tweak with one file
in the Setup sub-directory of the source tree. Given the sore state of my
brain RAM, I can't be more precise than that.

BTW I have Debian Testing and Tkinter works for python 2.3.4. Did you try
simply download and install official python and python-tk debian packages?
(assumed that Mepix is compatible enough with Debian). 

HTH

Ciao
--------
FB


From iviskic at uci.edu  Mon Oct 18 16:10:16 2004
From: iviskic at uci.edu (iviskic at uci.edu)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:10:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why is function call - recursive especially -  in python so slow?
Message-ID: <1066.128.200.69.159.1098130216.squirrel@128.200.69.159>


Hi,

I'm doing an analysis of program code performance when written in python
as oppose to other programming languages, and can't seem to figure out why
is the call of functions so slow?
Is a context being created and stored on stog each time, or does it uses
references? How EXACTLY does it work? I've read the documentation, but it
is written on a cooking-book principle, so it does not say clearly how it
works, just that it does work.

Please let me know if you now how it's done, or (preferably) point me
where to look for the answer.
Thank you in advance.

Ines



From cbfalconer at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 24 00:36:24 2004
From: cbfalconer at yahoo.com (CBFalconer)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 04:36:24 GMT
Subject: Interesting coding idea
References: <2tvup4F24iddjU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<9ckln0tm2ubr7t8hafe27p66kfileceabu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <417AF77B.18BFAC06@yahoo.com>

Jack Klein wrote:
> <bruno at octantis.com.br> wrote in comp.lang.c:
> 
>> Perhaps it would be interesting to program a virtual machine
>> simulating an ancient computer (such as the pdp-7). Then, it
>> would be rather interesting to code for it (porting gcc to it
>> maybe?). I think it would be fun to play with the long-forgotten
>> art of coding in machine language.
>>
>> And what about a fictional computer, such as one that works on
>> an entirely different way (such as a non-binary computer)?
>>
>> It wouldn't be very useful, but it wouold be a very fun and
>> very interesting thing to hack on.
> 
> And what exactly does this have to do with the C language?  I
> suspect it is equally off-topic in comp.lang.python.

If he moves to alt.folklore.computers, he will find plenty of
people who have programmed such beasts, and even be on-topic. 
Follow-ups set.

-- 
Chuck F (cbfalconer at yahoo.com) (cbfalconer at worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
   <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!




From shalabh at cafepy.com  Fri Oct 15 17:00:51 2004
From: shalabh at cafepy.com (Shalabh Chaturvedi)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:00:51 -0700
Subject: Why does super take a class name as the argument?
In-Reply-To: <87lle7j02u.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>
References: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>	<mailman.5013.1097856215.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<87lle7j02u.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>
Message-ID: <ckpdlt$ac5$1@sea.gmane.org>

Chris Green wrote:
>>[1] http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html
> 
> Thanks for the pointer ( to all ).  This was what I was looking for.

Here's another: 
http://www.cafepy.com/articles/python_attributes_and_methods/ch02.html

--
Shalabh



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 21 00:19:00 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 04:19:00 GMT
Subject: Parsing info into a 2d list
References: <58fb5b0e.0410201227.6fa6fc88@posting.google.com>
	<4176f1a9.338201938@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <41771f82.349938745@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:41:32 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>----< slope.py >------------------------
[...]
>    def __init__(self, lines):
>        lines = iter(lines)
>        for name in 'ncols nrows xllcorner yllcorner cellsize'.split():
>            setattr(self, name, int(lines.next().split()[1]))
>        self.NoData = lines.next().split()[1]
>        mx = []
>        for r in xrange(self.nrows):
>            mx.append([float(v) for v in lines.next().split()])
>        list.__init__(self, mx)
>    def __str__(self):
>        return '\n'.join(['<Slopes object:']+map(str, list(self))+['>'])
>
I don't like that useless separate mx. Below seems better, since apparently the base class
supplies an initialized empty list (though I'm not sure exactly how that is implemented):

    def __init__(self, lines):
        lines = iter(lines)
        for name in 'ncols nrows xllcorner yllcorner cellsize'.split():
            setattr(self, name, int(lines.next().split()[1]))
        self.NoData = lines.next().split()[1]
        for r in xrange(self.nrows):
            self.append([float(v) for v in lines.next().split()])

Always room for improvement ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From no at spam.please  Fri Oct  8 19:09:34 2004
From: no at spam.please (Doug Holton)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 18:09:34 -0500
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
Message-ID: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>

Rodrigo B. de Oliveira released version 0.4.3 of boo, I thought I'd 
share it here since there has been so much interest for similar projects 
like IronPython.

http://boo.codehaus.org/

Boo is a python-like language for .NET or the cross-platform Mono 
(http://www.go-mono.com/).

Version 0.4.3 adds an interactive interpreter (booish, similar to IDLE 
for python), elif, and a bug fix.

I wrote up some notes on boo for people already familiar with Python:
http://boo.codehaus.org/Gotchas+for+Python+Users

Also I have collected some starter resources for getting into .NET 
programming: http://developers.coedit.net/DotNetProgramming


A summary of some distinct features of boo:

-quickly compile to an exe (can run cross-platform with Mono)
-closures/anonymous methods: http://boo.codehaus.org/Closures
     x = def():
         ...some code here
-optional static typing:
     "x as int", "static def method1() as string:"
-simple super(), automatic super calls and constructors
-unless statement
-built-in support for regular expressions
-timespan literals: "100ms"
-extensible compiler pipeline
-custom macros and attributes (similar to decorators)
-includes an interactive interpreter (booish) and an IDE
  with code completion (boox, still in development).

Features in common with C#:

-interfaces, enums, events
-properties with getters and setters
    Version as string:
        get:
           return _version
        set:
           _version = value
-lock (like "synchronized" in java)
-asynchronous execution with BeginInvoke
    http://boo.codehaus.org/Asynchronous+Design+Pattern
-parameter checking with required attribute:
    def foo([required(value > 3)] value as int):
       pass
-using statement: (disposes of object when finished using)
    using f = System.IO.File.OpenText('using0.boo'):
       print(f.ReadLine())


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 03:17:08 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:17:08 +0200
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gm9a9j.s0b279yqpnlvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
   ...
> The pivotal word here is "you".  The data *you* want to store.  One more
> time YOU.  I'm not correcting your mangling of English at this point,
> rather I'm pointing out that it's *you*, not Python, that knows what
> sort of data *you* want to store.  If *you* want to limit your integers
> to some arbitrary amount then *you* are going to have to write code to
> do that.  What *you* need for *your* application isn't necessarily what
> anyone else needs for theirs.

This is correct, but optional constraint checking (on all kinds of data
types) can be a handy feature for many kinds of applications.  It might
be handy to have a 'type decorator' for that, one which would wrap all
operations returning a result (and all mutations, for mutables) into
suitable checks.  If I have a list that's supposed to always be between
5 and 8 items, it might be handy to write:

x = constrain(list, LenConstraint(5, 9))([0]*7)

and if I have an integer number that's supposed to always be (and return
when operated upon other such ints) nonnegative and less than 500,

y = constrain(int, SizeConstraint(0, 500))()

Now, y-1 would raise a ConstraintViolation, as would, say,
x.extend('hello').  Sure, nothing momentous, but this would catch some
typos (where I meant y+1) or thinkos (where I meant x.append('hello'))
faster than the unittests would.

There is some previous art for that, of course.  For integers only,
Pascal let you declare a range of admissible values; in debug mode only,
many compilers would helpfully catch range-mistakes, much like (say) in
Python, debug or not, list indexing catches out-of-bounds errors.  In
SQL (and other data modeling situations), it's normal and helpful to
express optional constraints on the range of allowed values.

Of course, this has nothing to do with silly and arbitrary bounds such
as 2**31-1.  But constraint checking should not necessarily be ruled out
as a generally helpful technique.

Maybe it's better to attach constraints to attributes rather than to
types -- use c.y rather than bare y, so that assignments to c.y that do
not meet the constraints will raise ConstraintViolation, say.  That
would surely be easier to program, and speedier, for non-mutables.

Exploring these design-space variations and gathering real-world use
cases is best done by designing and implementing a Python extension for
the purpose, of course.  Rolling some such functionality into the Python
core / standard library would be silly without such specific previous
experience.


Alex


From fumanchu at amor.org  Wed Oct  6 11:27:06 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:27:06 -0700
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F34@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Gustavo Niemeyer <niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > > >>> class MyClass:
> > > ...         for i in range(10):
> > > ...                 def newmethod(self,i=i):
> > > ...                         print "I'm method #%d" % i
> > > ...                 newname = "method%d" % i
> > > ...                 locals()[newname] = newmethod
>    ...
> > As an interesting side effect, the class above will have
> > 'newname', 'newmethod', and 'i' attributes, besides 'method0-9'.
> 
> ...which incidentally shows that i is a +local+ variable...
> 
> > Of course, in your example, not using the 'i=i' trick would be a
> > problem, since the 'i' variable is lost, and inside the method a
> > global is looked for, creating an error.
> 
> True, the opcode for i is indeed a LOAD_GLOBAL.  Why _that_ should be
> the case is anything but an 'of course' to _me_, though, as we just
> showed that i is a +local+.  newmethod is not seen as a 
> nested function
> of the anonymous function built from the codeobject's that's the
> classbody.  I _think_ there's some adhoccery in the Python 
> compiler (not
> the easiest part of Python to read and understand, so I apologize for
> any potential confusion here) to specifically ensure that -- I guess
> it's for backwards compatibility with old Python versions which didn't
> have nested scopes, otherwise any barename in a method would 
> refer first
> to the classbody (acting as its 'outer function') which could shadow
> globals.  A bit confusing for an "of course", nevertheless;-).

Hmmm. I would have guessed that i isn't available to the class until the
class statement is finished executing; that is, when newmethod is
defined, there is not yet any MyClass class object in which to look up
i. Therefore, newmethod uses LOAD_GLOBAL. But I'm just guessing.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Fri Oct 22 11:59:04 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:59:04 -0400
Subject: IDLE--what are your experiences with it?
In-Reply-To: <Pm8ed.3143$Ag.3109@fe37.usenetserver.com>
References: <Pm8ed.3143$Ag.3109@fe37.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <41792E48.3030706@mediapulse.com>



Kevin Walzer wrote:

> I'm looking for other peoples' viewpoints about their experiences with
> IDLE as an editor--what are its good points? What are its limitations?
> Any advice/insight is appreciated.

When I was in windows I used Idle more often, it was just as easy to 
pull up idle as it was a command line. However even then I ended up 
using command line python more often than Idle since I was running my 
own apps from the command line. Now that I'm on linux I never use Idle. 
And either way, I only ever used the command line interpreter (or Idle) 
to verify syntax before putting it into my code.

e.g.

"Hm... I don't recall... is the four-year date in datetime %Y or %y?"

So I'll pull up python, get my answer, close python, continue on in my 
"real" editor.

Gabriel.


From ville at spammers.com  Mon Oct 11 08:58:06 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 15:58:06 +0300
Subject: Using tuples correctly?
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F59@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
	<mailman.4695.1097497144.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du78yadfm3l.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Bjorn" == BJ?rn Lindqvist <bjourne at gmail.com> writes:

    Bjorn> instantiate classes instead. OK. Fine. Or they use tuples
    Bjorn> because they are convenient and becomes annoyed because
    Bjorn> they have to use index access.

Did you check out the Bunch data type already?

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52308

It doesn't support "tuple unpacking", but otherwise it might fit your
needs...

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 31 05:11:11 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:11:11 GMT
Subject: Enumerate question: Inner looping like in Perl
References: <4183d256$0$3665$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
	<mailman.5720.1099162140.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4184bef5$0$19027$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
Message-ID: <4184b92c.1244844722@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:28:47 +0200, Pekka Niiranen <pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com> wrote:

>Steven Bethard wrote:
>> Pekka Niiranen <pekka.niiranen <at> wlanmail.com> writes:
>> 
>> 
>>>for i, row in enumerate(contents):
>>>	row[i] = something
>>>	if matcherSTART.search(row):
>>>		"Oops! how to advance 'i' and 'row' untill:
>>>		if matcherEND.search(row):
>>>			continue
>> 
>> 
>> Usually I would do this kind of thing by just keeping the iterator around.  The
>> example below has two loops, an outer and an inner, and both iterate over the
>> same enumeration.  (I've used 'char ==' instead of regular expressions to make
>> the output a little clearer, but hopefully you can do the translation back to
>> regexps for your code.)
>> 
>> 
>>>>>contents = list('abcdefg')
>>>>>itr = enumerate(contents)
>>>>>for i, char in itr:
>> 
>> ... 	print 'outer', i, char
>> ... 	contents[i] = char.upper()
>> ... 	if char == 'd':
>> ... 		for i, char in itr:
>> ... 			print 'inner', i, char
>> ... 			if char == 'f':
>> ... 				break
>> ... 			
>Thanks, I decided to catch logical error of not
>finding "f" -letter at all with:
>
> >>> def myiter(contents):
>... 	itr = enumerate(contents)
>... 	for i, char in itr:
>... 		print 'outer', i, char
>... 		if char == 'd':
#XXX# >... 			#try:
>... 				for i, char in itr:
>... 					print 'inner', i, char
>... 					if char == 'f':
>... 						break
                                else:
                                    print "f not found"
#XXX >... 			#except StopIteration:
#XXX >... 			#	print "f not found"
>...
> >>> contents = list('abcdeg') 				
> >>> myiter(contents)
>outer 0 a
>outer 1 b
>outer 2 c
>outer 3 d
>inner 4 e
>inner 5 g
>
>Not working: Iter() takes care of its own exceptions?
>This recurring feeling that writing REALLY correct programs in Python
>is not easier than in lower level languages... :(
>
>-pekka-
>
>
>
>
>
>> outer 0 a
>> outer 1 b
>> outer 2 c
>> outer 3 d
>> inner 4 e
>> inner 5 f
>> outer 6 g
>> 
>>>>>contents
>> 
>> ['A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'e', 'f', 'G']
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
Try above (untested), noting:
 >>> itr = enumerate('abcdef')
 >>> for i,c in itr:
 ...     print i,c
 ...     if c=='d': break
 ... else:
 ...     print 'first else'
 ...
 0 a
 1 b
 2 c
 3 d
 >>> for i,c in itr:
 ...     print i,c
 ...     if c=='z': break
 ... else:
 ...     print '2nd else'
 ...
 4 e
 5 f
 2nd else

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From nick at craig-wood.com  Fri Oct 15 04:30:02 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 08:30:02 GMT
Subject: automatic accessors to a member var dict elements?
References: <mailman.4968.1097781955.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mu7sfs68m1q28@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncmv0fp.ru4.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
>      class MyClass(object):        # ensure a new-style class
>          def __init__(self):
>              self.m_dict = {'one':1, 'two':2, 'three':3}
>          def __getattr__(self, attr):
>              value = self.m_dict.get(attr, None)
>              if value is None:
>                  raise AttributeError(attr)
>              return value
>          def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
>              self.m_dict[attr] = value
> 
>  I'm using a new-style class to take advantage of improvements in 
>  attribute lookup.  For this class, __getattr__()/__setattr__() will only 
>  be called if attr isn't found through the normal attribute resolution 
>  rules. 

It doesn't!

>>> class MyClass(object):        # ensure a new-style class
...     def __init__(self):
...         self.m_dict = {'one':1, 'two':2, 'three':3}
...     def __getattr__(self, attr):
...         value = self.m_dict.get(attr, None)
...         if value is None:
...             raise AttributeError(attr)
...         return value
...     def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
...         self.m_dict[attr] = value
... 
>>> obj = MyClass()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in __init__
  File "<stdin>", line 10, in __setattr__
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
[snip]
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
  File "<stdin>", line 5, in __getattr__
RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded

I know there is something different about new style classes in this
area, but thats not it!

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 14 19:08:27 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:08:27 -0400
Subject: Using pickle with setattr
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4976.1097793765.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <416CA456.8070409@kzoo.edu>
	<mailman.4976.1097793765.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <BtCdnQnAfql3m_LcRVn-2Q@powergate.ca>

dataangel wrote:
> dataangel wrote:
>> For the project I'm working on right now I'm dealing with a lot of 
>> class objects that I plan to be changing at run-time through the 
>> get/has/setattr functions. 
[snip rest of inquiry]
> I'm flabbergasted. Nobody on the python mailing list knows? I've stumped 
> the experts? ;)
> 
> Or maybe my question is stupid for somer reason? :P

Or perhaps most people who read the message thought it should be
trivial for you to run the first experiment from the interpreter
prompt, and couldn't be bothered doing the work for you.  Isn't
the question you posed one that could be answered with a few
minutes of typing?

As for me, I don't use Pickle, and can't answer any of your questions,
though if I had the time to spare I'd be typing "python" and playing
around interactively and would expect to find an answer shortly.

> *bump* (Pardon me if this is considered excessively rude here, I'm new)

I don't know about rude... incomprehensible maybe.  What's "*bump*"
mean?

(I do know that many people take more than two days to receive and
read messages for this group, and that assuming you deserve a
response in less than three or four days is probably bordering on
rude...  But, generally speaking, if you don't get a response it's
possible you should re-read your original post, reconsider whether
you might have made one of the mistakes mentioned in, say, the
infamous "Smart Questions" essay, and perhaps do a little more
research and then post again with the results and a different angle
on the problem and the question.)

-Peter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct 18 15:04:28 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:04:28 -0700
Subject: By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <cl11jf$r9$1@fred.mathworks.com>
References: <mailman.5126.1098122988.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl11jf$r9$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <20041018114705.0A3A.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


[snip section about Java]

Indeed, I meant in reference to C, but I should have been more precise.

> > Python does name binding with references.  That is, each reference is
> > given a name, but you cannot change data by assigning to a name; you can
> > only change what data that name points to.  There are certain operations
> > that can be done with mutable objects and immutable objects, but that is
> > another discussion entirely.
> 
> Yes.  These two issues often get muddled together in discussions about
> argument passing.  Are you avoiding the term "variable"?  Some don't
> like to use it because they see Python as somehow fundamentally
> different than other languages.  I think the term fits nicely.

In my mind, "variable" implies that the data is implicitly "variable" by
assignment, which is not the case in Python.

Underlying name binding in Python is a Python dictionary; a mapping of
keys to values, where keys are names, and values are pointers to actual
data (there are optimizations for local scopes that replace the
dictionary with a static table, but one could use a dictionary and it
would work the same).

As a result, an assignment in a scope is no more than doing doing an
assignment to a key/value pair in dictionary, with similar "hey, we're
just swapping pointers on assignment, not changing the data itself" (at
least in terms of the 'value' part of the key,value pair).


In a C-semantic pass by reference, you get the pointer to the actual
data, and when you assign to that pointer, you change the data itself.
In a C-semantic pass by value, you get a value with copy on write
semantics.

If what Python does is like Java, perhaps C# or what have you, great.  It
is, however, different from the C semantic description of "pass by value",
"pass by reference", and the standard CS education definition of either.

 - Josiah



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Oct 25 20:58:48 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:58:48 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <clk5qk$4lt$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>
	<1098746958.22370.116.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<mailman.5466.1098748601.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clk5qk$4lt$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <1098752328.22370.128.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 17:30 -0700, Robert Kern wrote:
> Tim Churches wrote:
> > 
> > Yes. It seems to be them is some dissonance between these two positions:
> > 
> > "It is OK for a closed-source application to allocate memory on a system
> > running the GPLed Linux kernel"
> > 
> > and
> > 
> > "It is not OK for a GPL-incompatible Python application to import GPLed
> > code into the runtime namespace it is using."
> > 
> > I shudder to think what a judge and jury would make of such a
> > distinction. 
> 
> I'm sure they would see the explicit exception made in the GPL:
> 
> """
> However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not 
> include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or 
> binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of 
> the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component 
> itself accompanies the executable.
> """

I'm sure they would see it, I'm less sure they would see its relevance
(I certainly don't).  The exception you refer to allows authors to ship
*GPL* applications without including the source for everything under the
sun.  It says nothing about allowing non-GPL applications to link
against GPL libraries or import GPL code.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From mediocre_person at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 28 19:05:23 2004
From: mediocre_person at hotmail.com (Nick)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:05:23 -0500
Subject: Constructor problem
In-Reply-To: <418169ec$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
References: <418169ec$1_1@alt.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <41817b4e$1_4@alt.athenanews.com>

Nick wrote:
> I'm writing a simple class to represent a deck of cards. Here is the 
> stripped down version. Notice classes Deck and Deck2. Class Deck works, 
> Deck2 does not. My thinking is that it should be more efficient (a la 
> Deck2) to pre-create the list, and then modify it, rather than appending 
> Cards as in Deck.
> 
Thanks for the replies... I smack my head in dismay.



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 14:26:55 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:26:55 -0700
Subject: passing threading.Thread() and function object
In-Reply-To: <ckjr96$d14$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <ckjr96$d14$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1097692015.12092.250.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 13:17 -0500, Christopher J. Bottaro wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm new to Python programming, so please excuse me.
> 
> thread = threading.Thread(self.somefunc())

thread = threading.Thread(target = self.somefunc)

> thread.start()
> print "Thread started"
> 
> def somefunc(self):
>         while (1)
>                 print "In thread"


You are *calling* self.somefunc in your instantiation.  You need to pass
a reference to the method instead.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From tismer at stackless.com  Sat Oct 23 22:37:47 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 04:37:47 +0200
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
Message-ID: <417B157B.2030705@stackless.com>

(re-sent and modified, after I recognized that my
hardware-clock is broken, need a new note-buck)

Dear community,

I would love to publish Stackless 3.1, of course.
Also I know that there is some inherent bug in it.
This is the state of the art sine four months.
I am currently in a very tight project and have no
time to dig into this problem.
BUT IT IS URGENT!

I'm seeking for a person who would take the job to
find the buglet. He would need to debug and
nail down a commercial application, which I cannot
make public. (S)He would need to sign an NDA with me.

The success payment would be $500, minimum. If the problem
shows up to be very hard (to some undefined definition
of very hard, to be negotiated), it can be increased
to $1000.

If my app works afterwards, Stackless 3.1 is just fine
and can go out to the public..
If it doesn't work, no payment happens.
The identified problem needs to be documented by a
reproducible test case.

If somebody is interested, please contact me privately.
And be aware, this is really no easy stuff. You need to
be a real hardcore system hacker with many years of
experience.
(Armin, Bob, Jeff, Lutz, Richard, Stefan, Stephan?)

Here is the CVS path to the dev trunk:
CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous at stackless.com:/home/cvs
cvs co slpdev/src/2.3/dev

The cheapest complete solution wins. Hurry up :-)

Sincerely -- chris
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at stackless.com>
tismerysoft GmbH             :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Carmerstr. 2                 :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
10623 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 31 86 04 18  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From mauriceling at acm.org  Wed Oct 20 18:46:54 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:46:54 GMT
Subject: reverse Jython
In-Reply-To: <1glzby6.uw3a7gc95cxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.5172.1098197357.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41759f7d$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<1glyebd.1afm95x1ip4x1cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4176d995$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<1glzby6.uw3a7gc95cxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4176ead9$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>


> But... it's said that Plato was once asked by a student, what good was
> all this geometry they had to study (Plato made all students study
> geometry first, as the best preparation of the mind for philosophy).
> Plato called a slave and instructed him to give the student a gold coin
> then throw the student out of the school.
> 
> There remains in academia an unconfessed sympathy for the Greek
> position, exemplified by this anecdote, that real scholarship
> _shouldn't_ be "good for something" -- it should be far from the grubby
> preoccupation of everyday life, and in its own idealized spiritual
> sphere.  Nobody in academia will speak this out loud, but, it IS, to
> some extent, still in the background.
> 
It reminds me of my convocation ceremony last year and a certain sense 
of disbelieve when someone was conferred a PhD in Arts for his work to 
"study the numerous bloody scenes of Iliad by Homer." There is a notion 
that academics lives in ivory towers...... But considering the life 
histories of some philosophers, Immanuael Kant for example (I think), 
he's born a nobleman......

I suppose pure mathematicians are still the subscribers to the ancient 
notion of real scholarship, considering they do maths just to produce 
more maths. Applied mathematicians are the ones that brought us computers...

> That's why some of us aren't in academia, often having tried it but
> found it wanting, partly because of that.  The concept of something I've
> done being actually practically useful to some people in their everyday
> work, in their everyday life, is too important for me to give up.
> Doesn't mean I can't explore blue-sky notions, but there's gotta be some
> kind of hope that -- at least if I get real lucky and everything comes
> out just right -- it WILL be useful.  That's why I'm an engineer, not a
> scientist, I guess;-).
> 

I do find more and more academics subscribing to the concept of 
real-world use (if lucky). Even though I am a scientist, I cant really 
handle obscurity, working in my own sphere of my own creation. 
Otherwise, I won't even have asked the question of "is it worth 
reversing jython, to compile java into python?" in the first place. In 
the notion of real scholarship, it is a nice thought, nobody had done it 
or is doing it, why even question the validity...

maurice


From kumoyuki at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 05:49:12 2004
From: kumoyuki at gmail.com (David Rush)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 02:49:12 -0700
Subject: Emacs is going to die! =( [was Re: Emacs + python (Was Re:
	python is going to die! =()
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<278de0e.0409201131.57baf7f9@posting.google.com>
	<414f61bf$0$29449$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<rwJ3d.1000$g42.675@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<87hdprv3qd.fsf_-_@ion.xlipstream.com>
	<du7fz5a8tte.fsf_-_@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <cdd4e677.0410010149.50b50324@posting.google.com>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message news:<du7fz5a8tte.fsf_-_ at lehtori.cc.tut.fi>...
> That's the whole problem with emacs - lack of resources. Nobody
> bothers do anything "seriously". 

And they do in the Eclipse world? Bah. I've just spent two weeks trying 
to come to terms with Eclipse. I couldn't even how to figure out how to
get brace-matching to work for a scripting language that is not supported
by the default distribution.

> And when people within the emacs
> community do things they pick bizarre ways of doing things, possibly
> because they are often Lisp lovers that like to "think different". 

It's not because Lisp-heads like to think different. It's because Lisp 
allows you to think differently. Programming for Emacs though is a bit 
of a different animal from most programming because of the basic data
model. When the goal of a program is (extensive) side-effects on a 
string things look a bit ... different. Just wait. Eclipse programming 
will go down this road by the time it reaches the level of maturity of
current Emacsen.

> Eclipse will no doubt take over. 

I do see the possibility, but the Eclipse community is going to have to
more eagerly embrace the non-Java world.

> Emacs might need a fresh start,
> but it's hardly likely; most probably a new project would be seen as
> further dillution of already scarce emacs resources.

The big problem is backward compatibility with the *huge* base of 
existing elisp code.

> Luckily we emacs fans still have hope in eclipse - 

How? I'm feeling awfully let down that the appearance of the Eclipse
community does not seem to match the reality.

david rush


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Oct 19 10:11:06 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:11:06 -0500
Subject: MatPlotLib question: How to get more different size plot
 symbols ?
In-Reply-To: <d1f3d1d3.0410190632.18196690@posting.google.com>
	(DrColombes@yahoo.com's message of "19 Oct 2004 07:32:33 -0700")
References: <d1f3d1d3.0410190632.18196690@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2vfd6u7b9.fsf@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Colombes" == Colombes  <DrColombes at yahoo.com> writes:

    Colombes> MatPlotLib question: How to get more different size plot
    Colombes> symbols in the plot function ?

    Colombes> Is there a way to get different size squares (or circles
    Colombes> or triangles, etc.) ?

    Colombes> For example, in a two dimensional plot of heights and
    Colombes> weights of individuals, is there a way to represent also
    Colombes> the age of the individual by the size of the plot symbol
    Colombes> ?

Yes, you will want to use the scatter function for this.  With "plot",
you can change the size of the symbols with the markersize keyword
argument, but all of the markers must be the same size.  With scatter,
the individual marker size (and colors) can vary.

See 

 example code: http://matplotlib.sf.net/examples/scatter_demo.py

 screenshot: http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html#scatter_demo2

 scatter help: http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/matplotlib.matlab.html#-scatter

scatter support the following marker shapes (currently all regular
polygons)

    's' : square
    'o' : circle
    '^' : triangle up
    '>' : triangle right
    'v' : triangle down
    '<' : triangle left
    'd' : diamond
    'p' : pentagram
    'h' : hexagon
    '8' : octagon

Hope this helps,
JDH


From b.niemann at betternet.de  Tue Oct 19 10:15:32 2004
From: b.niemann at betternet.de (Benjamin Niemann)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:15:32 +0200
Subject: bz2 & cpu usage
In-Reply-To: <cl365b$hh8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <cl365b$hh8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <cl37a7$opn$1@online.de>

Under Linux/Unix you would set the processes 'nice' value to tell the system to 
give your process a lower priority. Under windows do something similar using the 
TaskManager -> Set Priority... There should some windows API call to do this 
from your program, probably involving the win32 extension.


Brad Tilley wrote:
> I'd like to keep at least 50% of the cpu free while doing bz2 file 
> compression. Currently, bz2 compression takes between 80 & 100 percent 
> of the cpu and the Windows GUI becomes almost useless. How can I lower 
> the strain on the cpu and still do compression? I'm willing for the 
> compression process to take longer.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brad
> 
> def compress_file(filename):
>     path = r"C:\repository_backup"
>     print path
>     for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):
>         for f in files:
>             if f == filename:
>                 print "Compressing", f
>                 x = file(os.path.join(root, f), 'rb')
>                 os.chdir(path)
>                 y = bz2.BZ2File(f + ".bz2", 'w')
>                 while True:
>                     data = x.read(1024000)
>                     time.sleep(0.1)
>                     if not data:
>                         break
>                     y.write(data)
>                     time.sleep(0.1)
>                 y.close()
>                 x.close()
>             else:
>                 return


From maxm at mxm.dk  Fri Oct 29 16:15:29 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:15:29 +0200
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5673.1099074514.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>	<1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>	<du7d5z1fx08.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>	<just-D2DC45.16465829102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.5673.1099074514.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4182a420$0$246$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Ian Bicking wrote:

> Having ctypes in the stdlib would be cool, because it would mean that 
> many C library extension could be installed with no compilation step, 
> since ctypes would already be compiled as part of the default install. 
> Assuming the C library was already installed, but typically C libraries 
> get packaged for distribution long before the associated Python 
> extension is packaged.


ctypes are sweet!

Trying them out, I was surprised how easy it was to do ... well anything.

I am not aware af all the consequences of including it in the standard 
library, but to me it seems like a logical thing to do. It "feels" very 
pythonic.




-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From peter at somewhere.com  Fri Oct 15 08:11:26 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:11:26 +0200
Subject: Recycle Bin and Python
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410150408.165c95c4@posting.google.com>
References: <6f402501.0410150408.165c95c4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckoess$2aa$1@swifty.westend.com>

Michael Foord schrieb:
> How do I move files into the windoze recycle bin from python ?

By moving them into the recycle directory?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From jerf at jerf.org  Wed Oct 27 12:29:29 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:29:29 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <mailman.5538.1098846078.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clngtp$tat$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410270500.701ee156@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.27.19.15.09.392817@jerf.org>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:00:38 -0700, kartik wrote:

> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:<clngtp$tat$02$1 at news.t-online.com>...
>> kartik vaddadi wrote:
>> 
>> >> Overflow errors are not automated tests.
>> > 
>> > why not? they detect bugs.
>> 
>> According to that logic your users will be automated tests, too...
> 
> Sorry for the wrong terminology, but what all I meant was what
> overflow errors detect bugs without you having to write code for that.
> -kartik

I have been trying to figure out what you mean by "detect bugs" and
failing. Static compile-time typing proponents can at least make this
claim with a straight face because typing errors (that you don't use
language features to bypass) are caught at compile time and no user can
ever see them, as the executable program never exists.

Overflow errors occur at run time, and used to throw an exception. That is
*not* "detecting an error", that is "throwing an exception", which aren't
even close to the same thing. Python does its best to convert errors into
exceptions, but languages without exceptions are certainly not error free,
nor do all errors get successfully converted into exceptions. (I've
crashed my stock Python 2.3 before, on the gzip module. No exception, just
error.) 

You are saying that when an int goes to a long, you think it would be
better to throw an exception, and brutally terminate that line of
processing (thread, process, whatever), instead of successfully adding a
number. 

You have to understand, you're getting flack here because you are saying
"I think things would break less if they broke more." That statement is
not entirely indefensible, but when there's no reason for anything to
break in the first place it is an odd thing to say and requires a lot more
than raw assertion.

Let me put this another way: What program have you written where this was
a problem? If you have one, let's discuss it concretely; maybe there was a
better way to do things. If you don't have one, then again, don't hold
your breath expecting to convince anyone against years of experience and
with no concrete examples of why your rather silly claims might be true
even in some small domain. 

If you want to find Python theoretically repulsive, may I suggest the much
more popular complaints against duck typing, taking offense at the
syntactic significance of whitespace, the lack of OO purity because
"len" is a function and not a method and there's all this "self"
everywhere, or perhaps the most recent fad, bitching about double
underscore methods?



From emayo at home.com  Fri Oct 29 13:35:23 2004
From: emayo at home.com (Pater Maximus)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:35:23 -0400
Subject: Can not get urllib.urlopen to work
References: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <LOGdnceSL5eDGx_cRVn-iA@comcast.com>

Problem solved!!

First, thanks to all who responded.

It turns out the villain was "Norton Personal Firewall". Since it did not
warn me that it was blocking an attempt to reach the internet, I assumed it
was not the problem.

Bad assumption.

Everything worked when I configured Norton to allow pythonw.exe to contact
the internet.


"Pater Maximus" <emayo at home.com> wrote in message
news:3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg at comcast.com...
> I am trying to implement the recipe listed at
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/211886
>
> However, I can not get to first base. When I try to run
>
> import urllib
> fo=urllib.urlopen("http://www.dictionary.com/")
> page = fo.read()
>
> I get:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:/Program Files/Python/Lib/idlelib/testurl", line 2,
in -toplevel-
>     fo=urllib.urlopen("http://www.dictionary.com/")
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\urllib.py", line 76, in urlopen
>     return opener.open(url)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\urllib.py", line 181, in open
>     return getattr(self, name)(url)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\urllib.py", line 297, in open_http
>     h.endheaders()
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 712, in endheaders
>     self._send_output()
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 597, in _send_output
>     self.send(msg)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 564, in send
>     self.connect()
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\lib\httplib.py", line 548, in connect
>     raise socket.error, msg
> IOError: [Errno socket error] (10061, 'Connection refused')
>
>




From f.geiger at vol.at  Fri Oct 29 15:30:05 2004
From: f.geiger at vol.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:30:05 +0200
Subject: [wxPython] How to rebuild a page containing controls
	becausesome of them have to be deleted?
References: <clu3bj$sv5$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<mailman.5680.1099077017.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clu5k0$vra$1@newshispeed.ch>


"Cliff Wells" <clifford.wells at comcast.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.5680.1099077017.5135.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 20:51 +0200, F. GEIGER wrote:
> > I often use Notebook to structure my GUIs. Sometimes I have to provide a
> > Settings page. Doing changes in this page influences other pages in such
a
> > way, that some controls have to change add or remove children or even
have
> > to be removed from the page at all.
> >
> > Yet I could not come up with a solid pattern how to do this. I tried to
call
> > DestroyChildren(), delete all ref's to them, and to set the page's sizer
to
> > None. This doesn't work very well. When I rebuild the page, at least the
> > arrangement of the controls is not the same as before, which makes me
think,
> > that other things will go wrong in the long run too.
>
> I use this technique with little issue (although I haven't tried it with
> a wx.Notebook).  One thing you might try is to use an extra wx.Panel as
> a container for the entire page.  So each page then would end up with a
> single panel for the page, and each panel further containing *another*
> single panel which contains your actual controls.  This way you can
> simply destroy the second panel and recreate it and the layout is simple
> enough that you shouldn't run into problems with sizers getting
> confused.

I thought about an extra panel too, shouldn't be a problem with Notebook
either. So if this is how it is done, I'll go for it.

>
> Regards,
> Cliff
>

Many thanks for your quick reply!

Kind regards
Franz


> --
> Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>
>




From slick_mick_00 at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 12 20:03:41 2004
From: slick_mick_00 at hotmail.com (Michael)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:03:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Ok, I'm quite new to Python
Message-ID: <ckhrcs$g92$1@hercules.btinternet.com>

But i'm a good c++ programmer.

What i want to do is parse a text file and store the information in relevant
fields:

//Text File:

*Version 200
*SCENE {
    AMBIENT_COLOUR    0.0 0.0 0.0
                }

*MATERIAL_LIST{
    *MATERIAL_COUNT 0
    }
*GEOMOBJECT {
    *NODE_NAME "obj1"
    *MESH {
        *MESH_VERTEX_LIST{
            *MESH_VERTEX    0    0 0 0
            *MESH_VERTEX    1    0 1 2
                        }
        *MESH_FACE_LIST {
            *MESH_FACE    1    2    3
                        }
                    }
        }
/* ... More GEOMOBJECTS ...*/


but I have no idea what the best way to do this is?
Any thoughts??

Many Thanks

Mike






From pellis.no.spam at tampabay.rr.com  Tue Oct 12 22:08:17 2004
From: pellis.no.spam at tampabay.rr.com (Patrick Ellis)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 02:08:17 GMT
Subject: School Project, Need Help Fast!
References: <mailman.4778.1097617767.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l60bd.7989$vZ5.5358@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>

Robert Brewer <fumanchu at amor.org> typed:
> Gavin Bauer wrote:
>> The "press enter to exit" thing is because my DOS
>> shuts off the second it finishes computing, which
>> leaves me without seeing the final information.
>> I would love it if someone knew how I could change
>> my Dos preference...
>
> There's a switch for that which I can't recall at the moment.
> Workaround: Start->Run->cmd, then navigate to your script and type
> "python myscript.py".

Goto "Folder Options" and "File Types" and select .py files.

Add a new action called "open in persistent window" with the following
command:
cmd.exe /x /k C:\Python23\python.exe "%1" %*

You can make that the default action if you want. I didn't, prefering to
make editing the file my default action.




From daniele at NOSPAM.org  Thu Oct 14 18:06:15 2004
From: daniele at NOSPAM.org (Daniele)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:06:15 GMT
Subject: gettext support for Linux and Windows
References: <XAXad.121193$35.6044796@news4.tin.it>
	<pan.2004.10.13.06.48.05.484678@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <rLCbd.37440$b5.1879276@news3.tin.it>

Thomas Guettler wrote:

> [cut]
> You can put print statements into gettext.py to find out what is
> going on.

[cut]

On windows, python (latest stable version) I run a script with the following
code statement for gettext:

import gettext

gettext.bindtextdomain('myapp','.\locale')
gettext.textdomain('myapp')

Where I run my script is there a directory "locale" with inside subdirs like
"en" "it_IT" and many more. Under "it_IT" is there a "LC_MESSAGES" and the
relative myapp.mo file. Under Linux the same code run well.. under windows
no: what'z up? I used too the abs path to the dir but nothing change. Any
kind of env variable? I don't know.. and I can't find anything related on
Web.


-- 
Daniele


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 07:28:22 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 13:28:22 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<5Wu8d.25573$H11.796921@twister1.libero.it>
	<1gl8cxp.1bwobhn1emgfx1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2JP8d.26848$N45.697634@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <1gl8kea.1i8zbyrjryq6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

gabriele renzi <rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it> wrote:
   ...
> > Please explain how this syntax choice "discriminates" anything
> > whatsoever?  __getattr__ is called when some message isn't understood by
> > the "normal" mechanisms of the object, too.
> 
> I actually meant __getattribute__ sorry.

Python lets you have either, sure.  But the very existence of
__getattr__ (WAY more used and useful of __getattribute__) appears to
deny your point.


> The point is that when you write
> x.foo(y)
> in py you're looking up foo, then calling it with y.
> Actually you can even store x.foo away and call it later
> f=x.foo
> 
> in ST you can't cause you're not doing a dict lookup when you write
> x foo: y
> 
> obviously you could send another message asking for x to give you a 
> method foo: object

Exactly because of this 'obviously' part, I claim there is no deep
difference whatsoever.  Currently, Python factors every fetch-and-call
operation into separate fetching and calling sub-operations, while a
typical Smalltalk implementation optimizes the common case of
fetch-and-call wrt the rarer case where you only want to fetch for now,
store the method object somewhere, and call it later.  This is an
implementation detail, actually an _optimization_ detail.

Say that Python 2.5 introduced an optional __getattr_and_call__ special
method and one related bytecode.  Where now a call c.z() compiles to
    LOAD_FAST c
    LOAD_ATTR z
    CALL_FUNCTION 0
it would then compile into
    LOAD_FAST c
    CALL_ATTR z, 0

If c's class did define __getattr_and_call__, the latter would boil down
to type(c).__getattr_and_call__(c, 'z'); otherwise, it would instead
boil down to (like today) the equivalent of:
    _temp = getattr(c, 'z')
    _temp.__call__()
(for some hypothetical _temp which actually -- yet another irrelevant
implementation detail -- only lives on Python's runtime stack).

Observable differences?  Essentially nil -- hopefully some potential to
be faster (otherwise it would hardly be worth the bother), but
semantically intended to have identical effects.  Similarly for other
possible implementation choices for CALL_ATTR (adding a __get_and_call__
method to descriptors, to be used, if present, instead of just __get__
in such cases, for example).

A language completely unable to get a first-class "bound method" object
WOULD be substantially impoverished, sure.  But as long as you can get
that kind of object, then whether you use that "getting" as the only
mechanism for calling, or introduce some "rolled-up" mechanism to
(hopefully) optimize common use cases, is a mere implementation detail
-- simplicity on one side, perhaps a tad more speed on the other.

> Not that one is better than other just a subtle difference.

An _implementation_ difference, and in fact a pretty minor detail too,
not any real _language_ difference.


Alex


From export at hope.cz  Tue Oct 26 04:35:14 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 01:35:14 -0700
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
References: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410260035.60aee489@posting.google.com>

"Russell E. Owen" <rowen at cesmail.net> wrote in message news:<rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu>...
> I'm trying to launch an application from Python 2.3 on Windows. The 
> application is "ds9" (an image viewer), and is installed in C:\Program 
> Files\ds9\ds9
> 
> On unix I just do:
> os.popen3("ds9")
> and close the returned files and all is good. (I'm not trying to 
> communicate with the program via popen3 and so had been using 
> os.spawnlp, but that doesn't exist on Windows.)
> 
> On Windows os.popen3("ds9") does nothing, and the stderr returned from 
> os.popen3 has a message saying the program is unknown.
> 
> So I tried being specific:
> os.popen3("C:\\Program Files\\ds9\\ds9")
> This also fails and the program that is not found is "C:\Program", 
> suggesting that the space in "Program Files" is causing the problem. The 
> following failed in exactly the same way:
> os.popen3("C:\\Program\ Files\\ds9\\ds9")
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> -- Russell
> 
> P.S. I installed the app using its Windows binary installer, which 
> unpacks a few files in C:\\Program files\. Windows doesn't seem to know 
> the program exists; it's not in the task bar, for example. But one can 
> double-click it to run it.

I think the problem is in long name folder: Program Files. So, try

Progra~1 instead of Program Files


From jerf at jerf.org  Sat Oct 30 13:40:08 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:40:08 GMT
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<Z8Mgd.8520$Es2.172559@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.30.18.40.19.137063@jerf.org>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:53:13 +0000, gabriele renzi wrote:
> well, they failed to implement all of the tests but those implemented 
> actually run faster than  CPython.

It is trivial to make something that implements a subset of the language
run faster than something that implements the entire language.

This is why while I am optimistic and hopeful, I don't consider current
running speeds to be evidence that they will win. Call me when they've got
the whole language.

Also, there is the counterarguement that they probably have debug code and
stuff still in there, or things easily optimized. (I hope so, otherwise
they are Yet Another Project to fall victim to premature optimization;
let me say this clearly, it would be a *bad sign* if their code is
currently optimized.) But that just reinforces my point about the current
code not being useful as a reference for how fast the final Parrot will
run.


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Oct 25 18:05:28 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:05:28 -0000
Subject: String changing on the fly
References: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com>
	<1glzcvj.5uv1lg12ypgy2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aef9ef3d.0410202338.6c091ff2@posting.google.com>
	<1gm04ht.e3wqjt19zaabaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<slrncnqmo9.qn7.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<1gm8hbm.1r8d77im2uzfkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <slrncnqu58.qn7.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <1gm8hbm.1r8d77im2uzfkN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote:
>    ...
>> If you've got a lot of dictionary construction and deconstruction to do,
>> this simple trick can save a lot of {'redundant': redundant,
>> 'mapping': mapping} between locals and dictionaries.
> 
> Nah -- just pass in locals() as an argument!

Eight characters, Alex! Ten, if you consider the comma and space. =)

>> (but of course it still feels dirty)
> 
> So don't do it!-)

These were my younger days, of course...

-- 
 .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
        "talking about music is like dancing about architecture."


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 20 21:41:32 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:41:32 GMT
Subject: Parsing info into a 2d list
References: <58fb5b0e.0410201227.6fa6fc88@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4176f1a9.338201938@news.oz.net>

On 20 Oct 2004 13:27:40 -0700, matt.walsh at gmail.com (Matthew Walsh) wrote:

>Whats wrong with the following code?
Why not print out the data it's using as it goes? That's only 5 lines.
There might be a clue.

>using pythonWin I get the following error:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
>line 310, in RunScript
>    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
>  File "C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My
>Documents\file_parser.py", line 16, in ?
>    rownum = range(eval(nrows))
>TypeError: object doesn't support item assignment
>
>>>CODE
>f = open('f:\input.dat')
>feed= f.read()
>lines = feed.split('\n')
>ncols = lines[0].split()[1]
>nrows = lines[1].split()[1]
>xllcorner = lines[2].split()[1]
>yllcorner = lines[3].split()[1]
>cellsize = lines[4].split()[1]
>NoData = lines[5].split()[1]
>
Stylistically, that's a lot of re-typing. E.g., see below for alternative
Also, why not put all those on one line? Or don't you have control over input format?

>colnum = range(eval(ncols))
>rownum = range(eval(nrows))
the best way to convert from string to integer is int(thestring), not eval(thestring).
The latter risks bad surprises if thestring has not been verified safe.
>
>for r in rownum:
>    for c in colnum:
>        slope[r][c]= eval(lines[6+r].split()[c])
What is slope? Nested list representation of 2D array?
what is the format of the items on the line? Presumably numeric literals, but ints? floats?

I'll assume floats would be safe, but I special cased-NoData.

Have you considered making slope a list subclass instance that you can access your
named values from as well as slope[r][c] for data values, and initialize like
f = file('f:\input.dat'); slope = Slope(f) ? E.g., (not tested beyond what you see ;-)

----< slope.py >------------------------
class Slope(list):
    """
    2D data container initialized from text line sequence or iterator yielding:
        ... ncols ...
        ... nrows ...
        ... xllcorner ...
        ... yllcorner ...
        ... cellsize ...
        ... NoData ...
        <row 0>
        <row 1>
        <row nrows-1>
    where a row is
        col0value col1value col2value ... col<ncols-1>value
    If the iterator is an open file, the caller is responsible for closing it. 
    """
    def __init__(self, lines):
        lines = iter(lines)
        for name in 'ncols nrows xllcorner yllcorner cellsize'.split():
            setattr(self, name, int(lines.next().split()[1]))
        self.NoData = lines.next().split()[1]
        mx = []
        for r in xrange(self.nrows):
            mx.append([float(v) for v in lines.next().split()])
        list.__init__(self, mx)
    def __str__(self):
        return '\n'.join(['<Slopes object:']+map(str, list(self))+['>'])

def test():
    mx = Slope("""\
    ?? 3
    ?? 2
    ?? 111
    ?? 222
    ?? 333
    ?? NoDataToken??
    0 1 2
    3 4 5
    """.splitlines())
    for name in 'ncols nrows xllcorner yllcorner cellsize NoData'.split():
        print '%10s: %r' % (name, getattr(mx, name))
    print mx
    for r in xrange(mx.nrows):
        for c in xrange(mx.ncols):
            print mx[r][c],

if __name__ == '__main__':
    test()
----------------------------------------

I put ?? as place holders since I didn't know what you had there.

Result:

[18:39] C:\pywk\clp>slope.py
     ncols: 3
     nrows: 2
 xllcorner: 111
 yllcorner: 222
  cellsize: 333
    NoData: 'NoDataToken??'
<Slopes object:
[0.0, 1.0, 2.0]
[3.0, 4.0, 5.0]
>
0.0 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 5.0

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Fri Oct 15 14:50:31 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:50:31 +0200
Subject: How to python raw socket ????
References: <cko3dl$91d$1@netnews.hinet.net>
	<416fb93e$0$28812$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<ckoh06$okq$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <41701cb9$0$8663$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

.....because I want to modify ip header

Wouaaah !  You want to make a proxy/router, a firewall, or a backdoor in
Python ?
It is not my normal work ; but, by curiosity, I would like to read examples
of code.

*sorry for my bad english*

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau
m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B
sites : http://mclaveau.com   http://bergoiata.org   http://ponx.org
newsgroup : news://news.zoo-logique.org/programmation.Paradox











From carribeiro at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 05:18:09 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:18:09 -0300
Subject: types.UnboundMethodType is types.MethodType
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0410062249.347a1a82@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4467.1097114079.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410062249.347a1a82@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041007021860173968@mail.gmail.com>

On 6 Oct 2004 23:49:14 -0700, Michele Simionato
<michele.simionato at gmail.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4467.1097114079.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > Just curious. I was trying to test for a class method in some code of
> > mine, and stumbled on a few things that I really could not understand:
> >
> > # C is a class, m is a class method
> > >>> c.m
> >  <bound method C.m of <__main__.C instance at 0x0120E350>>
> > >>> isinstance(c.m, types.UnboundMethodType)
> > True
> > # C is a class, cm is a class method
> > >>> C.cm
> >  <bound method classobj.cm of <class __main__.C at 0x0120D870>>
> > >>> isinstance(C.cx, types.UnboundMethodType)
> >  True
> > >>> types.UnboundMethodType is types.MethodType
> >  True
> > >>> types.UnboundMethodType, types.MethodType
> >  (<type 'instancemethod'>, <type 'instancemethod'>)
> > >>> id(types.UnboundMethodType), id(types.MethodType)
> > (504034256, 504034256)
> >
> > I don't get it. Why to have two different identifiers that are in fact the same?
> 
> Backward compatibility?
> 
> Here is from the source of types.py:
> 
> <...>
> 
> class _C:
>     def _m(self): pass
> ClassType = type(_C)
> UnboundMethodType = type(_C._m)         # Same as MethodType
> _x = _C()
> InstanceType = type(_x)
> MethodType = type(_x._m)
> 
> <....>

It's probably a good explanation, if we remember that Python went
through lots of changes since 1.5.2 days wrt to the typing system
*and* to the method dispatch system. But I don't think it's right,
because as it is now I can't reliably trust the results of:

isinstance(method, UnboundMethodType)

It's possible that today's implementation uses the same type, and what
changes is only the fact that a unbounded method hasn't still filled
some attributes. In this case, there is no sense to talk about a
UnboundMethodType. But *if* the types are different, then it should
reflect on the type tests, don't you think?

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From theller at python.net  Tue Oct 19 11:18:58 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:18:58 +0200
Subject: Pointer to Image
References: <a1301a8e.0410190637.74a091ad@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d5zesplp.fsf@python.net>

cjankowski at hbr-inc.com (Chris Jankowski) writes:

> Hi all,
> I am still new to using Python, so bare with me.  I am trying to call
> a DLL from my program to use some of it's functions.  The only
> parameter is supposed to be a pointer to an image.  I have tried
> several variations on passing this parameter to the DLL and I am not
> having much luck.  This is going to call other functions later for
> OCR, but I want to get a simple one working first.
>
> Here is my code:  (Very basic)
>
> from ctypes import *
> import Image
>
> myOcr = windll.LoadLibrary('ocrdll.dll') # my DLL
>
> mySize = myOcr.GetImgBitmapSize ## load the function
>
> im = Image.open('C:\\chris.tif') ## load the Image
> print id(im)  ## for testing print address of im
>
> ##myFile = c_char_p(id(im))  # I have tried several variations of this
>
> x = mySize(myFile)  ##  Actual call to the DLL Function
>                     ##  documentation only one parameter passed
> pointer to Image
>                     ##  Must be DIB Image(Device Independent Bitmap)
>                     ##  (could this be the problem?)
> Thanks for the help.

I assume the Image function you import in the code above is from PIL?
In this case, it cannot work.  You cannot take the address (id) of an
arbitrary Python object, and assume that it points to C compatible data.
Maybe you should use a function from the dll to load the image data, or
you can read the file's bytes into python string, and pass that.

Thomas


From nick at craig-wood.com  Mon Oct  4 06:29:58 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 04 Oct 2004 10:29:58 GMT
Subject: Reclaiming (lots of) memory
References: <87lleo6hva.fsf@thomas.local>
Message-ID: <slrncm281h.cs.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Thomas Rast <foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid> wrote:
>  My scenario is somewhat involved, so if you're in a hurry, here's an
>  abstract: I have a daemon that needs about 80MB of RAM to build its
>  internal data structures, but can pack them to 20MB for the rest of
>  its lifetime.  The other 60MB are never returned to the operating
>  system.

First a recap on how memory allocation works!  This is general - I
don't know exactly how the python memory allocation works, but there
aren't too many ways of doing it under linux.

The way malloc() and friends work under linux is to claim large blocks
of memory from the OS.  This is either done with brk()/sbrk() or with
mmmap("/dev/zero") (depending on exactly which version of glibc you
are using etc).

For brk()/sbrk() malloc keeps a single area which grows and grows.
This area *can* be shrunk, but only if there is nothing that was
allocated in the way.

mmap("/dev/zero") behaves in pretty much the same way (ie it shrinks
and grows), except for large allocation (>4k I think) the allocation
is done in its own mmap() area.  This means that when it is freed it
completely disappears.

So for either of these methods freeing memory back to the OS relies on
the fact that there has been nothing allocated that will stop the
memory shrinking back down all the way.  In a dynamic object language
like python thats pretty difficult to guarantee - perhaps impossible!

The one ray of hope is the mmap("/dev/zero") for blocks bigger than
4k.  I'm pretty sure this is how modern glibc's work by default.

What you really want to do is get the allocation of the initial dict
and all of its data to be in its own mmap() block. No idea whether
this is possible in python though!  Its the kind of thing you could do
in C++ if you could be bothered to wade through all the tedious syntax
;-)

When I've had this sort of problem in the past I've usually resorted
to an on disk database (dbm of some kind).  These are usually fast
enough.  It would have the advantage that you'd only have to parse the
log files once too.  They are reasonably fast to access too as all the
hot pages soon get into the OS page cache.

Also as suggested by another poster /usr/bin/sort is very, very good
at huge datasets using minimal memory.

>  I've thought of building and packing the structures in a fork()ed
>  process, then piping them over to the main part;

Thats a neat idea.  You could also build a dbm in the forked process.

>  is there an easier way to get my RAM back?

I don't think so, but hopefully an expert who knows something about
how python allocates its objects will speak up now!

...

Just for fun I converted your program to use anydbm.  It then took 135
seconds to run (vs 12 for your original code), but only used 4 MB of
memory top.  The values of the dbm are pickled hashes.  The keys could
be too, but I decided to just use a tab seperated string...

import random
import os
import anydbm
import cPickle

def fill(map):
    random.seed(0)
    for i in xrange(300000):
        k1 = "%s\t%s\t%s" % (random.randrange(100),
              random.randrange(100),
              random.randrange(100))
        k2 = random.randrange(100)
        if k1 in map:
            d = cPickle.loads(map[k1])
        else:
            d = dict()
        d[k2] = d.get(k2, 0) + 1
        map[k1] = cPickle.dumps(d, -1)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    show_me = 'ps v %d' % os.getpid()
    os.system(show_me)
    d = anydbm.open("ztest", 'n')
    fill(d)
    os.system(show_me)
    del d
    os.system(show_me)

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From russblau at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 21 12:10:50 2004
From: russblau at hotmail.com (Russell Blau)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:10:50 -0400
Subject: Matrix (list-in-list), how to get a column?
References: <mailman.5261.1098371947.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4177d9e5$0$842$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <2tq5d6F214dqtU1@uni-berlin.de>

"F. Petitjean" <littlejohn.75 at noos.fr> wrote in message
news:4177d9e5$0$842$626a14ce at news.free.fr...
> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:19:04 +0200, Arvid Andersson <arvid at linux.se>
wrote:
> >
> > I have some data that looks like this:
> > data = [[1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]]
> >
> > I want to send columns 1 and 2 to a function
> > as two variables, say "plot(col1,col2)".
...
> >>> import Numeric as N
...

> Hope that helps.  Don't hesitate to try directly at the interpreter
> prompt.

Ok, let's see what happens:

>>> import Numeric as n
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named Numeric

I think you left out a step in your instructions.... ;-)

-- 
I don't actually read my hotmail account, but you can replace hotmail with
excite if you really want to reach me.




From rowen at cesmail.net  Thu Oct 14 18:08:26 2004
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:08:26 -0700
Subject: [ANN] RO utility package 2004-10-13
Message-ID: <rowen-3A7783.15082614102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

RO python package 2004-10-13 is now available for download from 
<http://www.astro.washington.edu/rowen/ROPython.html>

This is a package of python utilities I wrote to support a telescope 
control interface. RO has a strong emphasis on the Tkinter GUI library, 
networking, astronomy and cross-platform support (my telescope user 
interface is regularly used on unix, MacOS X and Windows).

Major changes in this release include:
- ScriptRunner and associated ScriptWdg allow you to write python code 
that can wait for things (such as threads to end, commands to finish, 
variables to change) without tying up the Tk event loop or having to 
write your code as a mess of callbacks. I wrote it to support simple 
user scripts but have also found it very useful for incorporating into 
my code.
- TkSocket and TCPConnection are now Windows compatible (accomplished by 
using tcl sockets instead of python sockets with createfilehandler).
- Editable widgets now have Cut/Copy/Paste, etc. in their contextual 
menus (just Copy for read-only widgets)

There are many smaller changes. Read the Version History 
<http://www.astro.washington.edu/rowen/ROVersionHistory.html> for 
details.

-- Russell


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 10 23:06:06 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:06:06 -0400
Subject: EVIL AMERICAN GOVT (aka FBI) is full of SADISTS and PERVERTS
In-Reply-To: <278de0e.0410101007.48dbb21e@posting.google.com>
References: <11a9e0b9.0410100611.1d8028b0@posting.google.com>
	<278de0e.0410101007.48dbb21e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <FdOdnV7flNYAZfTcRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>

Neuruss wrote:
> After reading carefully this message, I came to the conclusion that it
> is a little bit off topic.

Other than the parts about "SADISTS and PERVERTS", what portion
was *on* topic?  ;-)

-Peter


From grante at visi.com  Sun Oct 10 17:49:35 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 21:49:35 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<pan.2004.10.10.16.48.24.930075@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <4169ae6f$0$530$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-10, Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:

> But I do think that a bitwise operator should silently
> transform to a logical operator for strings is not obvious.
>
> What is 388488839405842L ^ "hello"?

No, I wouldn't want that either.  What I was talking about was
the possibility of an "xor" logical operator that would behave
in a manner similar to the other logical operators in that it
coerces it's parameters to boolean values.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I am covered with
                                  at               pure vegetable oil and I am
                               visi.com            writing a best seller!


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct  1 20:03:55 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 00:03:55 GMT
Subject: extra gibberish interspersed into urllib2 output
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.01.23.11.49.238903@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
References: <pan.2004.10.01.23.11.49.238903@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Lfm7d.457$UP1.435@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Dan Stromberg wrote:
> I'm attempting to retrieve some data from an http server using basic auth
> via python 2.3 with the urllib2 and cookielib modules.
> 
> I'm finding that I'm getting the data I need, but unfortunately, there are
> small bits of gibberish interspersed in it, rendering the data difficult
> to use at best. 
   ..
> Has anyone seen this before?  Is it premature to start using urllib2 from
> python 2.4?  Is it a bad idea to use this 2.4 module on python 2.3?

I've been using urllib2 under Python 2.4 and not seen
problems.  The code hasn't changed much in years, that
I know.

Have you tried doing the request manually?  That is,

%telnet machine 80
GET /asdf HTTP/1.0
  ..put cookie and auth information here..


Doing that would help show the problem is coming from
upstream of Python (or that it's in Python).

To go real hard core you could get ethereal or some
other network sniffer and watch exactly what Python
does.  That's easier in some sense because you don't
need to figure out what to send for the request headers.


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From bh at intevation.de  Wed Oct 27 05:45:40 2004
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:45:40 +0200
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<j0dtn016bbfrttbr5i5deja4qia9ohucut@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <s9zsm80fq9n.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> writes:

> IIUC in the case of LGPL you've also another obligation; if there
> is a new version of the library then your users should be able
> to link-in the newer version instead of the one you provided.

No.  They have to be able to link a *modified* version of the library,
not necessarily a newer or incompatible one.  The LGPL quite explicitly
says that this relinking only has to be possible for sufficiently
compatible modifications.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Skencil                                http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Tue Oct  5 18:40:13 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:40:13 +0200
Subject: Python Patterns
In-Reply-To: <1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4162ef68$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416322cd$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Alex Martelli wrote:
>  Meanwhile Robert Martin has already written a
> book far closer than any other to what I had in mind -- but he uses C++
> and Java as explanatory languages, and _that_ will give MY book enough
> of an edge to almost catch up with Uncle Bob's awesome experience and
> writing skills...!-)

A bit of searching found this book:
"Agile Software Development, Principles, Patterns, and Practices" ?


>>This "state" pattern needs a clumsy internal state object in C++
>>but in Python we can just change the object's class directly,
>>which is a much more direct implementation of what the pattern
>>tries to achieve :-)
> 
> 
> Right, good point.  In C++ you can do something closer with the Strategy
> pattern -- still one level of indirectness, but a consistent set of
> methods (embodied in the one strategy object) commuted as a whole.
> Assigning __class__ IS of course more direct, yes;-).

I just flipped the page in the GOF DP book, having read about "State",
and there it was: "Strategy". Interestingly enough, the only difference
-at first glance- with "State" is that strategy's 'Context' object
(the object that contains the reference to the strategy object),
has a different interface than with the State pattern. With state it
is essentially identical to the internal state object -- which,
in Python, is just the new class we assign to the object ;-)

State is about changing an object's class at runtime, to make it do
something different when the object is "in a different state".
Strategy is about being able to switch or add internal algorithms
without having to change the code that uses it.
So say the GOF. Amen.   :-D

Don't know why I'm writing all this. I have some reading to do...


--Irmen


From danmju at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 13 15:40:40 2004
From: danmju at yahoo.com (Dan)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 12:40:40 -0700
Subject: Looking for a Python/Numpy programmer in China
Message-ID: <c473db1a.0410131140.a0fa6cf@posting.google.com>

I am looking for a Python/Numpy programmer in China

* 2 years of Python experience
* 1 year of numpy experience
* Experienced in C or Fortran
* BS or MSc degree in math, CS, or sciences
* Can develop in Linux environment

* Working at home. Have a computer, internet connection, and a phone.

* half-time or full time.

If interested, please send email to danmju at yahoo.com

Thanks,
Dan Ju


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 13:27:19 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:27:19 -0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <zUcbd.32564$3C6.1308279@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com> <416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4866.1097680786.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zUcbd.32564$3C6.1308279@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041013102768768598@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:41:03 -0400, Nicolas Fleury
<nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> > I don't think you're crazy. OTOH, defining 'ordering' is difficult. Is
> > it the alphabethical ordering, or is it the ordering of insertion?
> 
> Insertion.  The point is that *there is* an order in the code.

In this case, yes. But I meant to say that a ordereddict would need to
make a choice here. Either way, our particular need doesn't seem to be
common enough to warrant such a patch.
 
BTW, I'm curious about why are doing it yourself. In my particular
case, I'm interested in declarative idioms for templating code: data
entry forms, configuration files, and similar stuff. I also think
that, whatever you're looking after, we could share some code and
experiences, and perhaps bundle it all into a single library. What do
you think of it?

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From bjourne at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 03:11:05 2004
From: bjourne at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:11:05 +0200
Subject: how do i change from string to list
In-Reply-To: <c76ff6fc.0410241958.7222d1f0@posting.google.com>
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>
	<417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<417c1cda$0$152$3a628fcd@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl>
	<c76ff6fc.0410241958.7222d1f0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <740c3aec0410250011238d5497@mail.gmail.com>

How do you do the opposite? List to string? Shortest method I've found is:

>>> ''.join(["H", "e", "l", "l", "o"])

-- 
mvh Bj?rn


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Fri Oct 15 19:36:13 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:36:13 -0400
Subject: Why does super take a class name as the argument?
In-Reply-To: <2taq57F1sir22U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com> <2taq57F1sir22U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <41705EED.2000702@kzoo.edu>

Leif K-Brooks wrote:

> Chris Green wrote:
>
>> I've done a bit of searching in the language reference and a couple
>> pages referring the behavior of super() but I can't find any
>> discussion of why super needs the name of the class as an argument.
>
>
> Think about it. In this code:
>
> class A(object):
>     def do_stuff(self):
>         print "A is doing stuff now."
>
>
> class B(A):
>     def do_stuff(self):
>         super(B, self).do_stuff()
>         print "B is doing stuff now."
>
>
> class C(B):
>     def do_stuff(self):
>         super(C, self).do_stuff()
>         print "C is doing stuff now."
>
>
> How would Python know that B should call C's do_stuff() method instead 
> of its own if there was no class argument? The self argument would be 
> exactly the same when C called super() as when B called it. There has 
> been some talk of making super into a language keyword instead of a 
> type, though; that would eliminate the need to even pass in self.

What's the going argument against it? Makes sense to me.



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Oct 14 07:00:40 2004
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:00:40 +0300
Subject: PIL question - saving JPEG
References: <mphad.42310$a85.20380@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <hrmsm0172tqb5n2idn5872kpq86fmpqgs3@4ax.com>

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:00:40 -0700, rumours say that "news.west.cox.net"
<sean.berry2 at cox.net> might have written:

>I have a fairly simple Python program that uses Image and ImageDraw to 
>create poll results on the fly.
>Because PIL only supports 256 colors for GIF and BMPs are huge (in 
>comparison)... I have opted to create JPEGs.

Another option is to use the PNG format, especially since you create
graphs.  PNGs have better quality and compression for this type of
images.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
"Tssss!" --Brad Pitt as Achilles in unprecedented Ancient Greek


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 28 18:52:23 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:52:23 GMT
Subject: PIL JPEG Windows Problem
References: <6U5gd.19857$SW3.18915@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <41816bc6.1024822847@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:42:42 -0400, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>If nobody has a quick answer I'll go to the PIL list, but I'm having 
>problems with PIL JPEG support on Windows, and figured someone on c.l.py 
>might have solved this problem.
>
>I built the Cygwin PIL from source, and that works a treat. 
>Unfortunately the Windows version (1.1.4 and 1.1.5b1) loaded using 
>binary installers is giving
>
>   File "/c/steve/website/hpgraphics.py", line 23, in ?
>   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\ImageFont.py", line 115, in ?
>     class FreeTypeFont:
>   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\ImageFont.py", line 132, in 
>FreeTypeFont
>     def getmask(self, text, mode="", fill=Image.core.fill):
>   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py", line 45, in 
>__getattr__
>     raise ImportError("The _imaging C module is not installed")
>ImportError: The _imaging C module is not installed
>
>When I import the _imaging module directly a dialog box informs me that 
>libjpeg.dll can't be found, and I have confirmed that it isn't anywhere 
>on the disk  - I have a libjpeg.dll.a as part of cygwin, but I can't 
>persuade myself this can be munged into suitable form. It would be nice 
>if I were wrong ...
>
>The PIL docs do say something about having to add JPEG support, but 
>unfortunately I can't find any information about adding *Windows* JPEG 
>support.
>
I succeeded in building PIL from source on windows about two years ago.

I had to get jpeg and zlib (setup warns about security problem if it sees old zlib )
from the net and build them myself, and then tweak setup.py to pick them up. There's
notes in setup.py about it. E.g., from Imaging-1.1.3\setup.py :

----
# on windows, the build script expects to find both library files and
# include files in the directories below.  tweak as necessary.
JPEGDIR = "../../kits/jpeg-6b"
ZLIBDIR = "../../kits/zlib-1.1.3"

# on windows, the following is used to control how and where to search
# for Tcl/Tk files.  None enables automatic searching; to override, set
# this to a directory name
TCLROOT = None
----

IIRC I disabled some TCLROOT logic looking for tk.h, as I didn't have the latter on disk...

It might (or not ;-) tell you something useful if you go into <something>\Imaging-x.x.x
and type setup.py -n install, and see what goes by with zlib and jpeg in it.
It will want to build using cl.exe I think, so that needs to be available in the environment
you do it for real in, and presumably a cl.exe compatible with how your python was built
(I haven't got MSVC++7, so I can't tell you about that).

HTH
Can probably reconstruct if you get stuck. I can't find a build script for what I did
for jpeg and zlib right now though ;-( There does seem to be a .dsw MSC++ workspace project
for the jpeg though...


Regards,
Bengt Richter


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Oct 28 13:22:24 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:22:24 -0700
Subject: quick regex question
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E32450D7@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Matt Price wrote:
> this is surely trivial, but can'f figure it out.  I wnat to replace:
> 
> 'string with spaces'
> with
> 'StringWithSpaces'
> 
> so I tried this:
> 
> s = 'string with spaces'
> pat = ' (.)'
> t = re.sub(pat, upper, s)
> 
> I know this isn't quite right, I expect it to return:
> 'String With Spaces'

A couple things are tricky about what you want.

1. If you use a function for the replacement arg in re.sub, it receives
a Match object, not the string, so you need to write a function to pull
the matching text out of the Match object:

def up_it(m):
    return m.group(1).upper()

2. Your pattern doesn't address the start of the string. You probably
want "non-grouping" parentheses to handle the "or". 

>>> re.sub(r'(?:^| )(.)', up_it, 'string with spaces')
'StringWithSpaces'


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Mon Oct 25 07:10:06 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:10:06 +0100
Subject: Implementing class attribute access methods via pseudo-function
 o  verloading.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5414.1098701076.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5414.1098701076.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <climuk$5rg$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Doran_Dermot at emc.com wrote:
> I've seen lots of code in which the attributes of a class are accessed and
> modified using two separate methods.  For example:

I think this is a great illustration of what properties can be used for:

http://www.python.org/2.2.2/descrintro.html#property

Then you can reduce your class to:

class Problems:
     def __init__(self, refNum):
         self._refNum = refNum

This is a LOT less code.

And use theProblem.title, theProblem.problem without any apparent 
function calls. As far as those fancy accessor methods go, YAGNI. If you 
do need them later, you can always add them:

     def _get_title(self):
         return self._title

     def _set_title(self, title):
         assert isinstance(title, basestring)
         self._title = title

     title = property(_get_title, _set_title)

I would much rather use theProblem.title = "the title" rather than 
theProblem.title("the title").
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From pierre.barbier at cirad.fr  Sat Oct 30 10:58:41 2004
From: pierre.barbier at cirad.fr (Pierre Barbier de Reuille)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:58:41 +0200
Subject: running a python script in the background
In-Reply-To: <371349cd.0410291923.a0bc96b@posting.google.com>
References: <371349cd.0410291923.a0bc96b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4183abf9$0$28744$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

I'd use "screen". This is a command that creates shells you can 
disconnect/reconnect.

So you launch screen and launch your program inside it. Then, you can 
disconnect from the screen and log out. When you'll log in, you'll be 
able to reconnect to your screen and see the result of your program.

Pierre


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 02:28:35 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:28:35 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <1097648916.10090.18.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 18:42 -0400, Istvan Albert wrote:
> Doug Holton wrote:
> 
> > share it here since there has been so much interest for similar projects 
> > like IronPython.
>  >
> > http://boo.codehaus.org/
> > 
> > Boo is a python-like language for .NET or the cross-platform Mono 
> > (http://www.go-mono.com/).
> 
> "Python-like" means very little. Make it run python code
> then you'll see a lot more interest from this group.

If you didn't find it interesting, then why did you respond?  Also, what
makes you the spokesperson for the rest of the people on this list?  Was
there a PEP written somewhere that I missed?

Personally, I find the project interesting.  I program in several
languages (as the job requires, Python simply being my preferred
language) and having a tool like this available is definitely
interesting (esp. in the absence of a production-quality IronPython).


Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From mauriceling at acm.org  Thu Oct 21 00:35:33 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice Ling)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:35:33 +1000
Subject: python 2.1 and 2.2
Message-ID: <41773C95.806@acm.org>

Hi,

I remembered reading somewhere that Guido had demonstrated a significant 
speed increase from python 2.1 to python 2.2 (or something like that). 
Anyone knows how is the test done? Is it using pystone.py?

Thanks
maurice
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From usenet at mail-2-me.com  Thu Oct 14 16:17:43 2004
From: usenet at mail-2-me.com (Dirk Hagemann)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:17:43 +0200
Subject: Search-Filter for LDAP (MS Active Directory)
In-Reply-To: <njh242-p32.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
References: <a37aa972.0410140547.b312ceb@posting.google.com>
	<njh242-p32.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <ckmmt8$vbd$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Michael Str?der schrieb:
> Dirk Hagemann wrote:
> 
>>
>> I'd like to know how to set up a query for all computer-accounts in a
>> special part of Active Directory by using LDAP.
>> Example:
>> all computers with a name like "ABC*" at "..., ou=Production,
>> DC=business,DC=company,DC=com"
> 
>  > From these computers I want to get their OS, Service Pack and some
>  > other information.
> 
> Assuming you're using <http://python-ldap.sf.net> (untested):
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> import ldap
> 
> l = ldap.initialize('ldap://domaincontroller.company.com')
> l.protocol_version = 3
> l.simple_bind_s('cn=Administrator,DC=business,DC=company,DC=com','secretpassword') 
> 
> 
> r = l.search_s(
>   'ou=Production,DC=business,DC=company,DC=com',
>   ldap.SCOPE_SUBTREE,
>   '(&(objectClass=computer)(cn=ABC*))' )
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Note that you have to bind as a real user with appropriate access rights 
> since anonymous search is disabled in Active Directory by default. Also 
> note that you might hit a server-side search limit leading to an 
> exception ldap.SIZELIMIT_EXCEEDED.
> 
> Ciao, Michael.

Hi Michael!

The script will run under my logged on user with domain-admin rights - 
so will will not have to authenticate a second time.
I hope I'll have the time tomorrow to test this code.

Greets
Dirk


From grante at visi.com  Sun Oct  3 01:06:25 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 03 Oct 2004 05:06:25 GMT
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
	<cam7d.455$UP1.116@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<yfsacv5h224.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<C9A7d.1010$M05.151@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnclv26h.102.grante@isis.visi.com>

On 2004-10-02, Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
>> Thanks -- I didn't know about that (small wonder -- it's undocumented; no
>> docstring and not in the manual).
>
> It's also cumbersome to use and I worry that some day
> it will disapper.  Does anyone actually use the 'commands'
> module?

I do.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I wonder if I ought
                                  at               to tell them about my
                               visi.com            PREVIOUS LIFE as a COMPLETE
                                                   STRANGER?


From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct 26 00:13:00 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 04:13:00 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417dcecc$0$1339$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-26, kartik <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote:

> such an assertion must be placed before avery assignment to the
> variable - & that's tedious. moreover, it can give u a false sense of
> security when u think u have it wherever needed but u've forgotten it
> somewhere.

Aargh...  The word is "you".

We now return you to an argument over I'm not sure what...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I know how to get the
                                  at               hostesses released! Give
                               visi.com            them their own television
                                                   series!


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 11:20:09 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:20:09 -0700
Subject: Secure Python code - volunteers for code review?
In-Reply-To: <20041013145354.GA3223@mylene.ghaering.de>
References: <1097637663.543580.126100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<20041012205021.091B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<1097645158.10090.3.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<20041013145354.GA3223@mylene.ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <1097680809.12092.165.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 16:53 +0200, Gerhard Haering wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 10:25:58PM -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
> > [Josiah Carlson requests a security review of his code storing/receiving
> > email data from a PostgreSQL database]
> >
> > A more straightforward way is to simply use prepare() religiously.
> > This also avoids the headache of having to decode your data if you
> > use a different program to access it (such as psql or mysql).
> 
> There's no prepare() in the DB-API. Letting the database module do the
> quoting should be enough to stay clear of SQL injection attacks.

Ah, right.  Too much language switching and not enough sleep (it's
8:00AM here and I haven't seen a bed yet) :P  

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 27 00:16:32 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:16:32 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410261950.5a066c25@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410251937.5355a8c7@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5479.1098763359.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<940ee3e8.0410261950.5a066c25@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1098850592.22370.390.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 20:50 -0700, kartik wrote:
> Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.5479.1098763359.5135.python-list at python.org>...

> 
> >If you are looking for a language with
> > arbitrary limits then I think Python isn't quite right for you.
> 
> not arbitrary limits, but ones that catch bugs.

You win.  I'll give you kudos for having seemingly infinite patience,
but frankly you've worn mine out.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From rdjdvd at inwind.it  Mon Oct 18 04:29:16 2004
From: rdjdvd at inwind.it (RDJ)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 01:29:16 -0700
Subject: [AoooAoooA] BrowAppSys-0.0.1.zip  on geocities.com
Message-ID: <c88425e6.0410180029.50aa791c@posting.google.com>

http://it.geocities.com/dawjde/BrowAppSys-0.0.1.zip

=== This is a AoooAoooA project (^_^) ===

BrowAppSys (BAS): Browser Applications System V.0.0.1 (2004 Oct 16)

[...]


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 06:48:31 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 03:48:31 -0700
Subject: Secure Python code - volunteers for code review?
In-Reply-To: <20041013004207.0921.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041012205021.091B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<1097645158.10090.3.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<20041013004207.0921.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <1097664512.12092.29.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 00:47 -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
> > > You can save yourself many concerns by encoding your data in some
> > > fashion that cannot be understood by the database to mean anything.  Hex
> > > works well for that.
> > 
> > A more straightforward way is to simply use prepare() religiously.  This
> > also avoids the headache of having to decode your data if you use a
> > different program to access it (such as psql or mysql).
> 
> Thankfully, other languages are able to translate to/from hex *wink*. 

Well, paint me ignorant, but I'm unaware of any feature in psql or mysql
(or any other tool, for that matter) that translates hex data to a
human-readable form without explicitly wrapping each field in your query
in a function call (and this precludes queries such as "SELECT * FROM
foo").  I'm not certain what you mean by "other languages" as I was
referring to the command line tools shipped with PostgreSQL and MySQL
respectively.

Anyone who does a lot of database work inevitably finds themselves using
the stock tools to review/revise data, so IMO, encoding the data is far
too tedious when there is an existing method for providing safe queries
that doesn't incur this overhead.

> Either way, unencoded/unprepared data may bork you.

Absolutely.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 02:54:31 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:54:31 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<uko932-mrd.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <1gl6dmb.1jpp8u61a9ojk1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.us> wrote:
   ...
> >> 31. Concepts of Protocols (whereby one may organize related methods into
   ...
> >No.  Test-driven development is the norm in Python.
>                       .
> ... but see <URL: http://www.pypackage.org/packages/python-dbc >
> for one among several DbC initiatives.

...and PEP 246 for Protocols (and more relevantly, pluggable
adaptation).  Eby's PyProtocols implements these ideas (and more); my
talk given earlier this year at OSCON (on masquerading and adaptation
design patterns in Python) has a short section on PEP 246, you should
find the PDF at www.strakt.com.


Alex


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct  4 11:45:32 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:45:32 -0500
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
In-Reply-To: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
References: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041004154531.GA2593@unpythonic.net>

One problem I see is that certain 'x'-quoted strings are currently legal
Python program fragments.  For instance,
    xx = 'x'+'x'
and
    xx = 'x' '' 'x'
(two silly ways to speciy the string 'xx')

A real-life example where "Mandis quotes" would change the meaning of an
existing program:
    def m(rows):
        m = max([len(str(s)) for row in rows for s in row])
        return "\n".join([r(row, "%%%ds" % m) for row in rows])

    def r(row, fmt):
            return '|' + ' '.join([fmt % i for i in row]) + '|'

>>> print m([[1,2,3],[4,5,100]])
|  1   2   3|
|  4   5 100|

I didn't like that r'' strings were added, so I hope that "add one more
kind of string literal" is already dead-in-the-water as a proposal.
Especially since the removal of any kind of string literal is impossible
before Python 3000.  The fact that this would change the meaning of
legitimate programs, well, that's even worse.

These quotes are similar to perl's q{} quoting:
       Quote and Quote-like Operators

       While we usually think of quotes as literal values, in Perl they func-
       tion as operators, providing various kinds of interpolating and pattern
       matching capabilities.  Perl provides customary quote characters for
       these behaviors, but also provides a way for you to choose your quote
       character for any of them.  In the following table, a "{}" represents
       any pair of delimiters you choose.

           Customary  Generic        Meaning        Interpolates
               ''       q{}          Literal             no
               ""      qq{}          Literal             yes
[...]

       Non-bracketing delimiters use the same character fore and aft, but the
       four sorts of brackets (round, angle, square, curly) will all nest,
       which means that

               q{foo{bar}baz}

       is the same as

               'foo{bar}baz'
What advantage do mandis-quotes have over perl's q{}?  The bracketing
delimeters rule seems like a handy one when dealing with strings that
might be program source code, mathematical expressions, or even just
paragraphs of text with parentheticals.

Do any major editors (Emacs and Vim to me; others can name their favorite)
treat Mandis-quotes better than they treat triple-quotes?  For me,
the poor treatment in text editors of triple-quotes is their biggest
weakness, but parsing mandis-quotes seems no easier, and maybe harder.

Finally, I don't understand why
    ''here's the trick''
wouldn't be a single mandis-quoted string (equal to 'here\'s the trick'
and "here's the trick"), because the delimeter is '', and that
doesn't appear within the string.

Jeff
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From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 05:34:54 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 02:34:54 -0700
Subject: Attribute access by hacking decorators
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410290134.15176a86@posting.google.com>

Here is a hack to implement attribute access (say for a Web framework)
the way I always wanted it to be. I say "hack" since it uses sys._getframe 
and it sets the locals of a class, which is not recommended. Still, it seems 
to work. I post the recipe here since since I would like to know if 

1. it really works;
2. if yes, is there a chance that it will not work in future versions of Python;
3. will it work under Jython?

Even if it turns out it does not work, still I like the feeling of it ;-)
Here is the decorator which builds the list of the public methods in the 
actual scope (it may be the module level scope or the class level scope):

import sys

def public(f): 
    loc = sys._getframe(1).f_locals
    if not "__public__" in loc:
        loc["__public__"] = [f]
    else:
        loc["__public__"].append(f)
    return f

Here is the usage for global functions:

@public
def g_a():
    pass

@public
def g_b():
    pass

print __public__ # [g_a, g_b]

Here is the usage for methods:

class D(object):
    @public
    def m_a(self):
        pass
    @public
    def m_b(self):
        pass
    print __public__ # [m_a, m_b]

It seems to work for nested classes too:

class Outer(object):
    @public
    def m_a(self):
        pass
    @public
    def m_b(self):
        pass
    class Inner(object):
        @public
        def i_a(self):
            pass
        @public
        def i_b(self):
            pass
        print "inner",__public__ #[i_a, i_b]
    print "outer",__public__ #[m_a, m_b]

Of course, it does not work at the function scope, as in this example:

def container():
    @public
    def i_a(self):
        pass
    @public
    def i_b(self):
        pass
    print "container", __public__ # [g_a, g_b] and not [i_a, i_b]

container()

However, I do not regard this as a problem, since I only want to define
public/private functions/methods at the module and class level, not at the 
function level. In my experiments settings the locals at the class scope works, 
but I wonder how reliable is this, wrt to future versions of Python or alternative
implementations.

Hacking-decorators-ly yours,
  
              Michele Simionato


From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Oct  1 08:37:39 2004
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 07:37:39 -0500
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
In-Reply-To: <cjj9sd$hg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> (eddie@holyrood.ed.ac.uk's
	message of "Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:00:45 +0000 (UTC)")
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>
	<cjj9sd$hg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m2oejm7gx8.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Eddie" == Eddie Corns <eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk> writes:

    >> Hi I want to dynamically generate a graph in python that would
    >> be displayable on a web page. What would be the best way to do
    >> this?

    >> The reason I want to do this, is because I am making a program
    >> to convert data from scientic probes into web pages. I have
    >> been able to do every thing except the graph generation.


    Eddie> http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/gdmodule.html

gdmodule is really more of a low level drawing program than a graphing
module.  Of course you can draw graphs with it, as you can with any
drawing program, but it's a lot easier to make scientific graphs (the
OP's interest) with a program designed for that purpose.  matplotlib
has a gdmodule backend.

  http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/backends.html#GD

JDH


From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Oct 25 15:13:36 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:13:36 -0000
Subject: structured unpacking assignments
References: <20041022115302.2d4e7b78.gry@ll.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <slrncnqk30.qn7.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <20041022115302.2d4e7b78.gry at ll.mit.edu>, george young wrote:
> Now, I think that pythoneers often use bare list/tuple structures
> when a class would be much clearer, and I don't recommend managing halibut
> data as in the example.  But the first example seems quite clear and natural.
> 
> Does anyone else have illustrious examples of structured unpacking?

I used them to deconstruct linked lists and trees in the following recipe on
ASPN's Python Cookbook:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/302467

-- 
 .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
        "talking about music is like dancing about architecture."


From waldbie at verizon.net  Wed Oct  6 21:33:14 2004
From: waldbie at verizon.net (Carl Waldbieser)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:33:14 -0400
Subject: Simple Python web proxy stalls for some web sites
Message-ID: <41649d0e@post.usenet.com>

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

I have written a simple web proxy using the Python standard library
BaseHTTPRequestHandler.??Right?now,?all?it?does?is?log?the?web?traffic
passing through it to the console.??I?have?been?testing?it?by?setting?my
browser's proxy setting to localhost:8077 and browsing to various web
sites.??Some?web?sites?work?fine?(e.g.?www.python.org).??However,?some?web
sites simply seem to stall indefinitely (e.g. www.google.com).??If?I?set
the same browser to connect directly to the Internet, the site comes up
close to immediately.

If anybody has any ideas about why this happens, or any coding mistakes I
may have made, I would appreciate the feedback.

Thanks,
Carl Waldbieser

--------- Python code below ------------------------------------
#############################################################
# Simple proxy
#############################################################

from BaseHTTPServer import HTTPServer, BaseHTTPRequestHandler
from urlparse import urlparse
import urllib2
import re

def multiple_replace(adict, text):
????"""Replace?multiple?patterns?in?a?single?pass."""
????regex?=?re.compile("|".join(map(re.escape,?adict.keys())))
????return?regex.sub(lambda?match:?adict[match.group(0)],?text)

def htmlencode(s):
????"""Replace?HTML?special?characters?(&,<,>,',")?with?entities."""
????entities?=?{"&":"&amp;",?"<":"&lt;",?">":"&gt;",?"'":"&apos;",
'"':"&quot;"}
????return?multiple_replace(entities,?s)

class WebProxyRequestHandler(BaseHTTPRequestHandler):
????"""A?subclass?of?BaseHTTPRequestHandler?that?acts?as?a?web?proxy
????server?and?can?be?chained?with?other?web?proxies.
????"""
????def?do_GET(self):
????????"""Handles?an?HTTP?GET.
????????"""
????????print?"do_GET()"
????????self.get_post_impl()
????def?do_POST(self):
????????print?"do_POST()"
????????length?=?self.headers["Content-Length"]
????????d?=?self.rfile.read(int(length))
????????self.get_post_impl(d)
????????
????def?get_post_impl(self,?data=None):
????????print?"client?host:?%s\nclient?port?%d"?%?self.client_address
????????print?"command:?%s"?%?self.command
????????print?"path:?%s"?%?self.path
????????print?"request_version:?%s"?%?self.request_version
????????print?"\n--?headers?--"
????????for?header?in?self.headers.keys():
????????????print?"%s:?%s"?%?(header,?self.headers.getheaders(header))
????????print?"--?end?headers?--\n"
????????#Forward?the?request.
????????server?=?self.server
????????if?server.proxy_addr:
????????????(scheme,?netloc,?path,?parameters,?query,?fragment)?=
urlparse(self.path)
????????????print?"scheme:?%s\nnetloc:?%s\npath:?%s\nparameters:?%s\nquery:
%s\nfragment: %s" % (scheme, netloc, path, parameters, query, fragment)
????????????url?=?"%s:%d"?%?server.proxy_addr
????????????print?"Proxy?URL:?%s"?%?url
????????????self.retrieve_request(data,?{'http':url})
????????else:
????????????self.retrieve_request(data)

????def?retrieve_request(self,?data,?proxies={}):
????????request?=?urllib2.Request(self.path)
????????for?header?in?self.headers.keys():
????????????if?header.lower()?!=?"host"?and?header.lower()?!=?"user-agent":
????????????????values?=?self.headers.getheaders(header)
????????????????value_string?=?"?".join(values)
????????????????request.add_header(header,?value_string)
????????for?proxy_type?in?proxies:
????????????print?"setting?proxy:?(%s,?%s)"?%?(proxies[proxy_type],
proxy_type)
????????????request.set_proxy(proxies[proxy_type],?proxy_type)
????????if?data?!=?None:
????????????request.add_data(data)
????????print?"Attempting?to?open?%s?..."?%?self.path
????????try:
????????????f?=?urllib2.urlopen(request)
????????except?urllib2.HTTPError,?e:
????????????self.send_response(e.code)
????????except?Exception,?e:
????????????print?"Exception:?%s"?%?str(e)
????????????self.write_error(e)
????????else:
????????????print?"Successfully?opened?%s"?%?self.path
????????????
????????????self.send_response(200)?#OK
????????????print?"--?Response?Info?--"?
????????????for?item?in?f.info().keys():
????????????????print?"%s:?%s"?%?(item,?f.info()[item])
????????????????self.send_header(item,?f.info()[item])
????????????print?"--?end?Response?Info?--"
????????????self.end_headers()
????????????print?"Reading..."
????????????s?=?f.read()
????????????print?"Read?successful."
????????????f.close()
????????????print?"Writing..."
????????????self.wfile.write(s)
????????????print?"Write?successful."
????????????#self.wfile.close()
????def?write_error(self,?error):
????????self.send_response(200)
????????self.wfile.write("""<html>
????????????<head>
????????????????<title>Error</title>
????????????</head>
????????????<body>
????????????????An?error?occured?connecting?to?the?address?given.
????????????????<br/>
????????????????%s
????????????</body>
????????????</html>"""?%?htmlencode(str(error)))
????????self.wfile.close()

class WebProxy(HTTPServer):
????def?__init__(self,?server_addr,?proxy_addr=None):
????????HTTPServer.__init__(self,?server_addr,?WebProxyRequestHandler)
????????self.proxy_addr?=?proxy_addr

if __name__ == "__main__":
????import?sys
????def?usage():
????????print?"Usage:?%s?[port?[proxy?addr?proxy?port]]"?%?sys.argv[1]
????????
????if?len(sys.argv)?>=?2:
????????try:
????????????port?=?int(sys.argv[1])
????????except:
????????????print?"Port?error."
????????????usage()
????????????sys.exit()
????else:
????????port?=?8077
????proxy_addr?=?""
????if?len(sys.argv)?>=?4:
????????proxy_addr?=?sys.argv[2]
????????try:
????????????proxy_port?=?int(sys.argv[3])
????????except:
????????????print?"Proxy?port?error."
????????????usage()
????????????sys.exit()
????if?proxy_addr:
????????proxy?=?WebProxy(("localhost",?port),?(proxy_addr,?proxy_port))
????????print?"Listening?on?%s:%d\nForwarding?to?%s:%d"?%?("localhost",
port, proxy_addr, proxy_port)
????else:
????????proxy?=?WebProxy(("localhost",?port))
????????print?"Listening?on?%s:%d"?%?("localhost",?port)
????????
????proxy.serve_forever()

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From esj at harvee.org  Sun Oct 24 18:28:23 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:28:23 -0400
Subject: speedier cgi and perf monitoring
Message-ID: <clha7t$sae$1@sea.gmane.org>

I've seen a couple solutions for making CGI faster without significant 
rewrite.  The only one I've been able to locate is fastCGI.  I seem to 
recall something like speed CGI or speedy CGI but I can't find I thought 
I saw (not a puddytat).  References to this other CGI speedup tool would 
be appreciated.

But I've also been playing with performance monitoring to try and 
improve performance with a couple of CGI that are very very hard on disk 
storage.  Even so, performance isn't what I think it should be.  On the 
simple, non disk intensive CGI, running the profiler on the CGI shows 
only 0.2 seconds execution time but in reality is takng 10 seconds from 
button click to page redisplay.  The HTML is only three or four 
kilobytes of relatively simple stuff as well so transmission or 
rendering time is not a big factor.

I have some disk intensive CGI which I have measured which showed only a 
few tenth of seconds execution time but also takes sometimes 15 or 20 
seconds elapsed time.

what's curious is that I'm not seem anyway a detecting which methods are 
taking large amounts of elapsed time.  I've tried a different (albeit 
simplistic) time bases to try and measure elapsed time rather than CPU 
time but with no luck.

suggestions would be most appreciated

---eric (cartoon junkie)



From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 11:22:34 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 08:22:34 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410050722.c1025a2@posting.google.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyfsm8td503.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>...
> _Most_ object-oriented languages support object orientation via the
> message passing paradigm. Python included.

In my mind I have the equation "message passing = single dispatching"
as opposed to multiple dispatching (generic functions). IOW, it seems
to me that all OOP systems based on single dispatching are more or less
the same and it is just a matter of terminology ("passing a message to
an object" = "calling a method of an object").
Am I right in this simplification? Or the terms has a much more
precise meaning? Just for my personal edification,

    Michele Simionato


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Oct 20 18:37:46 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:37:46 GMT
Subject: reverse Jython
In-Reply-To: <1glzby6.uw3a7gc95cxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.5172.1098197357.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41759f7d$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<1glyebd.1afm95x1ip4x1cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4176d995$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<1glzby6.uw3a7gc95cxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <_MBdd.2565$KJ6.1656@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex Martelli:
> There remains in academia an unconfessed sympathy for the Greek
> position, exemplified by this anecdote, that real scholarship
> _shouldn't_ be "good for something" -- it should be far from the grubby
> preoccupation of everyday life, and in its own idealized spiritual
> sphere.  Nobody in academia will speak this out loud, but, it IS, to
> some extent, still in the background.

Some are in academia in part because it's easier to fail,
or at least fail in interesting ways.  I don't mean that
derisively.  Consider someone doing work in biochemistry
or genetic research where there are many fundamental
problems that need to be addressed and novel instruments
created before figuring out if a given approach is "good
for something."

It's harder for non-academics to justify this sort of
exploratory work.

BTW, I happen to believe too much basic research is shifted to
academic labs and I complain that as a consequence in the US
it means a single person, the president, can decide that
certain fields of research are prohibited.


					Andrew
					dalke at dalkescientific.com


From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Oct 18 16:51:15 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:51:15 -0700
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022FA7@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

def warehouse(stock, factory=None):
    """warehouse(stock, factory=None) -> iavailable, iremainder.
    
    Iterate over stock, yielding each value. Once the 'stock' sequence
is
    exhausted, the factory function (or any callable, such as a class)
is
    called to produce a new valid object upon each subsequent call to
next().
    
    If factory is None, the class of the first item in the sequence is
used
    as a constructor. If the factory function is not a bound method, it
does
    not receive any arguments, so if your class has mandatory arguments
to
    __init__, wrap the class in a function which can supply those.
    
    A common use for warehouse is to reuse a set of existing objects,
often
    because object creation and/or destruction is expensive. The
warehouse
    function returns the second iterable ('iremainder') to allow
consumers to
    "clean up" any items from the initial sequence which did not get
re-used.
    
    For example, given a homogeneous iterable named 'i':
    
    available, remainder = warehouse(i)
    for thing in some_other_sequence:
        thing.use(available.next())
    for item in remainder:
        item.close()
    """
    
    if not hasattr(stock, 'next'):
        stock = iter(stock)
    
    def pull():
        """An inner generator from itertools.warehouse()."""
        for item in stock:
            yield item
        
        if factory is None:
            try:
                local_factory = item.__class__
            except NameError:
                raise ValueError("Empty sequence and no factory
supplied.")
        else:
            local_factory = factory
        
        while True:
            yield local_factory()
    
    return pull(), stock


What do you all think? I've been using a class-based variant of this in
production code (business app) for six months now, and have found it
extremely helpful. I saw a pointer to itertools today and figured a
function-based version might be nice to include in that module someday.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 30 12:28:42 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 09:28:42 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <698f09f8.0410300732.657035e7@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.5708.1099128187.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<698f09f8.0410300732.657035e7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041030085939.0C22.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher) wrote:
> 
> Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.5708.1099128187.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > Color me ignorant (I still maintain that numbers were a bad idea to
> > start with), but can you give an example of something that would
> > *require* this?
> 
> Accepting integer equations from untrusted users and evaluating them. 
> That's my exact use case, in fact.

So seemingly you have a problem with:
    val = RangedInteger(int(user_provided), mylow, myhigh)

Ok, so you've got a problem with that.  *shrug*


> > It seems to me that whether an OverflowError occurs is
> > only one way of determining whether a computation is bounded,
> 
> It's not really a way of *determining* whether a computation is
> bounded, but *guaranteeing* that it is bounded.  What I eventually did
> was simply convert all numbers to floats, and do my calculations with
> those; but this results in some ugliness, for instance, when a user
> asks for the value of "10**24".

Or any one of the other infinite values that binary floating point does
not represent exactly.  What you have done is to take your problem of
limiting range, and attempt to fold it into a type with a larger dynamic
range, but with limited precision.  Replacing an "OverflowError", with a
possible future infinite value returned by float and known precision
issues with non-integer math.

What gets me is that you seem to be saying that BEFORE 2.4 has
officially come out, you have switched to using floats because 2.4 will
remove the OverflowError when integers overflow.


> > I suppose my position is this: if I have a computer that can perform a
> > calculation in a reasonable time without exhausting the resources of the
> > machine then I would think that Python shouldn't try to stop me from
> > doing it, at least not based on some arbitrary number of bits.
> 
> That's exactly it.  With bounded integers, I know for sure that my
> program can perform a calculation in a reasonable time without
> exhausting the resources of the machine.  Without them, I have to go
> to great lengths to receive that assurance.

Ah, but you, or anyone else, only needs to implement it once for some
class of things, and it is done.  People who want more or different
functionality are free to derive.  With a little bit of futzing, you
could take the base code given by Andrew Dalke, add in custom handlers
for binary exponentiation with __pow__, and you're basically done.

Is there anything stopping you from doing this other than laziness and a
desire to complain "Python 2.4 doesn't have functionality X that it
choose_one_or_more(used_to_have, that_i_want)"?


 - Josiah



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Oct 25 16:39:31 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:39:31 -0700
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <417cb790$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Qd6dnUTV2ZBkBefcRVn-pg@giganews.com>
	<1gm4rq5.1c25kfc12o6jivN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417cb790$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <1098736772.22370.30.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 10:24 +0200, Max M wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > Surely there is no prohibition against the Python code generating all
> > the HTML it wants; it doesn't even have to use any template whatsoever
> > if it doesn't want to, generating HTML from code is the main thrust of
> > stan, somewhat similarly to Quixote.  It's not true that Nevow _is_
> > templating: Nevow _has_ templating, as one of many tools -- it just
> > happens to be the one tool I think should be used, given the scenarios I
> > explained.
> 
> 
> The main problem with most templating systems is not only that they mix 
> markup and code, but also that markup reuse is allmost impossible.

I'm not certain which templating systems you are referring to.  Markup
reuse is certainly a major point for the use of these system.  If the
system isn't capable of this then it isn't much of a templating
system.  

> An illustrative example is a "box". Often seen in the and right hand 
> side of websites. Eg. on sites like slashdot. Basically it has a title 
> and some content. It usually appears many places on a site, and so is a 
> prime candidate for reuse.
> 
> 
> It can be defined very simply in html like::
> 
>      <div class="box">
>          <h5>A title</h5>
>          Some content.
>      </div>
> 
> 
> If you want to reuse this in most teplate systems, you need to do it in 
> the programming language. Eg. in Python like::
> 
> 
> def box(title, content):
>      return """<div class="box">
>      <h5>%s</h5>
>      %s
>      </div>""" % (title, content)

Why?  

Since I mentioned Smarty before, I'll give an example in that templating
system.  Your example:

<div class="box">
  <h5>A title</h5>
  Some content.
</div>

would become the following Smarty template:

{* box.tpl *}
<div class="{$class}">
  <h5>{$title}</h5>
  {$content}
</div>

and the following PHP:

<?php
$smarty = new Smarty;
$smarty->assign('class', 'box');
$smarty->assign('title', 'A title');
$smarty->assign('content', 'Some content');
$smarty->display('box.tpl');
?>

Reusing this template on different pages is a simple matter of including
it in other templates:

{* page one *}
<html>
{include file="box.tpl"}
</html>

Additionally, the template itself can define variables to be passed to
the included template, if so needed:

{* page two *}
<html>
{include file="template.tpl" class="box" title="A title" content="Some
content"}
</html>

This is quite possibly *the most basic* use of Smarty (and templates in
general, IMO), so your claim that templating systems don't support this
seems quite bizarre to me.

> But now there is allready a problem. It is out of the hands of the 
> layouter. A programmer is needed to go in and change the markup. 
> Naturally this is a simple example, so a layouter would probably be able 
> to do it. But as the templates gets increasingly more complex, it's 
> going to be increasingly difficult for the layouter to do any changes.
> 
> Another thing is that you cannot call this as markup. You need to use 
> programming conventions::
> 
>      <% box('My little Box', 'Some content in the Box with <b>bold</b> 
> markup')%>
> 
> This approach of reuse, while technically correct, is next to useless. 
> Even if there is only mildly complex markup as content in the box.

For whatever "templating" system you are referring to, I'd certainly
agree this is useless.  The very term "template" implies the opposite of
what you are demonstrating:

See entry 2a:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=template 

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From chablinski at internetwork.net  Tue Oct 12 11:33:08 2004
From: chablinski at internetwork.net (Clayton Hablinski)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:33:08 -0500
Subject: help with excel
References: <01a801c4b06c$141ba890$0564a8c0@corp.NetworkOperator.com>
	<416BF3C3.9090201@cenix-bioscience.com>
Message-ID: <01c201c4b070$c68e8070$0564a8c0@corp.NetworkOperator.com>

Trying to acheive automation as well. The cells change month to month and I
have several different sheets.

Clayton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Bingham" <bingham at cenix-bioscience.com>
To: "Clayton Hablinski" <chablinski at internetwork.net>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: help with excel


> Clayton Hablinski wrote:
>
> > The script needs to analyze cell B2 through cell B51290 (the entire
> > range). And then for each cell it analyzes put either ".0029" or
> > ".0042" in column 8.
>
> Wouldn't this be much easier (and faster) using an Excel formula?  Or is
> there some reason you need to use Python for this?  Perhaps the analysis
> phase is much more complex then you are showing in your post?
>
> Aaron
>
>




From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Oct 21 15:32:50 2004
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:32:50 +0200
Subject: protect resources (images) within a pygame-program
In-Reply-To: <2289a427.0410211043.357032cf@posting.google.com>
References: <2289a427.0410211043.357032cf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41780e08$0$218$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

benjamin wrote:
> A pygame/python game resource question
> ######################################
> I wander whether there is any possibility to compile a bunch of
> resources for a program, like images and soundfiles into a package
> like, let?s say "game.dat", so they do?t fly around in the programs
> folder und can be edited by everyone.
> Hope somebody can help me.

The easiest approach would probably be to load them into a whooping big 
dictionar and save that as a pickle.

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark

http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 08:13:34 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 05:13:34 -0700
Subject: request for feedback: pyfmf
References: <oOGdnVv0D8jmduPcRVn-gg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410270413.49052ee5@posting.google.com>

"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<oOGdnVv0D8jmduPcRVn-gg at rogers.com>...
> pyfmf is a project I started a few months ago and that is registered with 
> sourceforge (http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net, 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyfmf).  It consists of a framework for file 
> management, with a console based toolkit (zigo) and a graphical platform 
> (zago) based on the framework.  Both zigo and zago are still alpha releases, 
> addressed only to python enthusiasts.
> 
> I just released a new version of zigo and the first release of zago.  There 
> have been a few tens of downloads of previous releases of zigo (which is not 
> bad) but I never received any feedback (at least I didn't get any bad 
> feedback either).  I would like to hear what other people think about it.  I 
> am interested in comments on uses, design, coding or just simply whether you 
> think this is interesting and useful.  Please take a look at the home page 
> of the project: http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net.
> 

Minor suggestion - download link on the main website......

Regards,


Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> Thanks,
> 
> Dan Perl


From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Wed Oct 20 21:29:05 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 01:29:05 GMT
Subject: WxHTML window
Message-ID: <20041020212905.08741.00002215@mb-m13.aol.com>

I'm using a wxhtml window to display an email message, my question is, what do
I need to put in onLinkClicked to make it to where a link is opened in my
default browser instead of in the wxhtml window?


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 14 03:42:26 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:42:26 +0200
Subject: Static typing in py [was Re: Some notes]
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du71xg314tr.fsf_-_@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<r26bd.38689$H11.1309666@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <1glma7r.wmy65316pyd4xN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

gabriele renzi <rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it> wrote:
   ...
> On a related note: What is supposed to be a type in python?

Since 'type' is a Python built-in, just like, say, 'int', I think the
answer is pretty clear: "X is a type" means isinstance(X, type), just
like "X is an int" means isinstance(X, int).


Alex


From gohadbhai at rediffmail.com  Tue Oct  5 08:02:41 2004
From: gohadbhai at rediffmail.com (Sandeep Avinash Gohad)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 12:02:41 -0000
Subject: Database Connectivity
Message-ID: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041005/1034267d/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
 ?
Hi

I want to develope a simple Database connectivity program with python.
I want to use MS Access as a backend.
Please guide me....
If any e-books,links available particularly for database connectivity
then please let me know

Regards
Sandeep


From greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com  Tue Oct  5 16:49:08 2004
From: greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:49:08 -0500
Subject: Outdated Recipe?
Message-ID: <01ab01c4ab1c$c312a6f0$054b12ac@D18SYX41>

Hello-

I am wanting to issue a system command on a HP-9000 Unix box from python and
capture the std and err streams.  I have tried the recipe by Brent Burley
from "The Python Cookbook" (p227ff) but have generate a couple of errors.
The first is a warning that the FCNTL module is depreciated, so I changed
all of the FCNTL to fcntl, no problem.  The fatal error is that the
FCNTL.FNDELAY is not defined (I had this error even before I converted to
lower case).  I've looked to the online cookbook, but it has the same
recipe.  Am I hosed for good, or is there another value for me to use?

Thanks again,

--greg

Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.



From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Thu Oct 28 16:30:55 2004
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:30:55 -0400
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] SnakeSkin 1.0
In-Reply-To: <1098994695.3838.133.camel@mike.mediapulse.com>
References: <1098994695.3838.133.camel@mike.mediapulse.com>
Message-ID: <418156FF.6020004@mediapulse.com>

We are proud to announce the release of version 1.0 of SnakeSkin, a
python application toolkit released under an Open Source BSD-Style
license, available at http://snakeskin.pseudocode.net/  Along with this
release, we have updated the CGI Demo to be easier to install and
follow.

Both of these releases can be found at (along with more information
including change logs):
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=118346

Support for SnakeSkin is handled though SourceForge.Net.  The project
information page is at http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/snakeskin-tools
There you will find the bug tracking system, a feature request system, and
the main method of support, the SnakeSkin mailing list.

About SnakeSkin

In SnakeSkin, developers can customize the framework to the application,
unlike in traditional frameworks, such as PHP. For example, adding 
custom tags to the templating system is quick and easy. The goal of the 
project is to have a framework that scales down as well as up--a 
"Zope-lite" framework. SnakeSkin can scale down to be useful in a simple 
form-to-email or just to apply a clean-cut design skin. The toolkit can 
just as easily scale up to handle complex content managment systems, B2B 
extranets, and full-fledged e-commerce engines.  We do it all the time.

SnakeSkin, based upon the existing Albatross project maintained by 
Object Craft, runs under several webservers, including CGI based, 
Apache, FastCGI, and its own included webserver (used mainly for 
development).

SnakeSkin has several built in capabilities:

* Dynamic Macro Features (think server-side includes on steroids)
* SQL support in both the application and the template
* Support for Apache 2.0 Filters

... and includes Albatross features ...

* Clean separation of logic and design
* A simple-yet-robust templating system that is Web Designer-friendly 
(Plays nice with Dreamweaver)
* Secure Session Management in hidden fields, server-side data-stores, 
or through a session server

The SnakeSkin team.
http://snakeskin.pseudocode.net/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 04:42:09 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:42:09 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<KRu8d.25558$H11.796459@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <1gl8d5f.1xwzpge1bw12b5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

gabriele renzi <rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it> wrote:

> > Why do you feel you need to extend the language for this? Why not (for
> > example) overload <<, >> and similar operators? __lshift__, __rshift__ etc.
> 
> ah, so the OP is asking about Higher Order Messages a-la F-Script? (or
> hyper ops a-la perl6)
> 
> I don't think this can be done in pure python. You can do half of it, say:
> collection >> stuff # map the stuff over the collection
> or
> collection >> operator << othercollection
> 
> but you cant do
> 
> stuff operator << collection

Assuming all of these identifiers are just such, you can't use the
latter syntax sugar (nor could you use the shorter 'stuff oper' sugar
either even without the << tail), but just tweak the syntax sugar
slightly (e.g. put a dot between the identifiers, which syntactically
you can't just juxtapose -- or, insert some operator there) and I'd
expect you can build whatever weird semantics you intend to (whether it
would make any _SENSE_ to go to such contortions is another issue, of
course -- not knowing what semantics you expect to associate to this not
exactly self-documenting syntax, I can't really guess).


Alex


From slrn at toetsch.at  Tue Oct  5 12:43:19 2004
From: slrn at toetsch.at (Leopold Toetsch)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:43:19 +0200
Subject: Miscellaneous personal prejudices
References: <cjsh6t$m6u$1@lairds.us> <36i932-lr5.ln1@lairds.us>
	<1tudnWqDWMKcpf_cRVn-qg@rogers.com>
	<du7y8il4ntg.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<TeKdnac_dM00MP_cRVn-vw@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <slrncm5joq.csg.slrn@toetsch.at>

Dan Python <danperl at rogers.com> wrote:

[ quoting reordered ]

> "Ville Vainio" <ville at spammers.com> wrote in message
> news:du7y8il4ntg.fsf at lehtori.cc.tut.fi...
>>>>>>> "Dan" == Dan Perl <danperl at rogers.com> writes:
>>
>>    Dan> "What do I have to say to get into the QOTW?"
>>
>> Change your last name?
>>
> Done

Don't do that.

Sam Ruby is working on Pie-thon (Python on Parrot):
http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/2004/10/02/Pyrate

No joke. But:
http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/04/01/parrot.htm

SCNR, leo
-- 
Oct 05 18:53:58 lux siggen[21694]: reading next random sig
Oct 05 18:53:58 lux siggen[21694]: Kernel panic: out of signatures
Oct 05 18:53:58 lux siggen[21694]: Rebooting in 10 seconds..


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 18:56:48 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:56:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmm29m.8la.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041012T004108-132@post.gmane.org>

Dave Benjamin <ramen <at> lackingtalent.com> writes:

> after(10, lambda: sprite.move(0, 5))
> after(15, lambda: sprite2.rotate(30))
> after(20, lambda: sprite.scale(120, 120))
> after(22, lambda: sprite2.move(50, 50))
> after(22, lambda: sound1.play())
> after(23, lambda: sprite.move(0, 0))
> after(26, lambda: sound1.stop())

Unfortunately, your "after" function is probably provided by your framework, 
but if that framework was written a little more Python-friendly, the after 
function would work like unittest.TestCase.assertRaises, e.g.

def after(sec, func, *args, **kwds):
    # wait sec seconds
    ...
    # call func
    func(*args, **kwds)

This would let you write the code above as:

after(10, sprite.move, 0, 5)
after(15, sprite2.rotate, 30)
after(20, sprite.scale, 120, 120)
after(22, sprite2.move, 50, 50)
after(22, sound1.play)
after(23, sprite.move, 0, 0)
after(26, sound1.stop)

which is actually slightly more concise (character-wise) than the lambda code, 
and doesn't force you to create a new lambda function to do something someone 
already created a function for.

Again, I realize that in many cases having functions written like this is not 
possible because the functions are defined by a framework, not the coder, but 
if you happen to be one of the ones *writing* the framework, you can take 
advantage of Python's *args and **kwds syntax to make this kind of thing 
easier.

Steve



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 21 18:38:00 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:38:00 GMT
Subject: excluding search string in regular expressions
References: <pc7fn0l6i0nso8onn0kh6gvt6o3sug4sd0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <417832d0.420416697@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:36:46 +0200, Franz Steinhaeusler <franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>Following Problem:
>
>find only occurances, where in the line are'::' characters and
>the former line is not equal '**/'
>
>so 2) and 3) should be found and 1) not.
>
>1)
>"""
>**/
>void C::B
>"""
>
>2)
>"""
>
>void C::B
>"""
>
>3)
>"""
>*/
>void C::B
>"""
>
>I tried something
>"\*\*/\n.*::"
>
>But this is the opposite.
>
>So my question is: how can I exclude a pattern?
>
>single characters with [^ab] but I need not(ab)
>
>not_this_brace_pattern(\*\*/\n).*::
>
>thank you in advance,

To look back a line, I think I'd just use a generator, and test current
and last lines to get what I wanted. E.g., perhaps you can adapt this:
(I am just going literally by
 """
 find only occurances, where in the line are'::' characters and
 the former line is not equal '**/'
 """
which doesn't need a regex)

 >>> def findem(lineseq):
 ...    getline = iter(lineseq).next
 ...    curr = getline().rstrip()
 ...    while True:
 ...        last, curr = curr, getline().rstrip()
 ...        if '::' in curr and last != '**/': yield curr
 ...

I made a file, modifying your data a little:

 >>> print '----\n%s----'% file('franz.txt').read()
 ----
 1)
 """
 **/
 void C::B -- no (1)
 """

 2)
 """

 void C::B -- yes (2)
 """

 3)
 """
 */
 void C::B -- yes (3)
 """
 ----

Here's what the generator returns:

 >>> for line in findem(file('franz.txt')): print repr(line)
 ...
 'void C::B -- yes (2)'
 'void C::B -- yes (3)'


Regards,
Bengt Richter


From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 15:38:56 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 12:38:56 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
References: <41616B9B.1080009@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4259.1096910844.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0410051138.e05811e@posting.google.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.4259.1096910844.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> > How hard/easy is it to extend the Python syntax?  Perhaps there are 
> 
> Check out the tokenizer module.

Sort of OT for this thread, but I've found that tokenize isn't well
suited to extending syntax, unless you actually want to copy and edit
the module's source.

The module has a bunch of code to generate its regular expressions
that executes in its global scope at import time, so you'd have to
duplicate that code in order to modify these expressions.

One might expect something a little more object-oriented out of Python
(e.g. a Tokenizer class that can be inherited and behavior of the
subclass modified), but that's not how it's currently set up.


From losheng at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 03:46:16 2004
From: losheng at yahoo.com (Lo Sheng)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 00:46:16 -0700
Subject: Getting File (exe or dll) Versions
Message-ID: <9c965d9.0410062346.7b7ca5c6@posting.google.com>

Hi, 

I have dugged through the newsgroups to find a simple solution to find
the file version of a windows exe or dll file. The following approach
that uses Scripting object only works for 2k and XP:

import win32com.client
fso = win32com.client.Dispatch('Scripting.FileSystemObject')
fso.GetFileVersion('c:\\foo.dll')

On a Korean Windows 98SE, I get the following problem:

--- output log --
>>> fso.GetFileVersion('c:\\foo.dll')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
line 489, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, "%s.%s" % (self._username_, attr)
AttributeError: scripting.filesystemobject.GetFileVersion
--- end of output log ---

Does any one know what the root problem is, or what the workaround
should be?

Thanks in advance!

ls


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 06:35:43 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 03:35:43 -0700
Subject: [twisted+wxPython] widgets do not work?
In-Reply-To: <ckh5u8$rod$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <ckh5u8$rod$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <1097663743.12092.21.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 19:58 +0200, Taki Jeden wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Anybody used wxPython with twisted?
> 
> I started putting together a Twisted-based app with wx GUI, and the widgets
> just don't work - some controls do not show up etc. - at least on my
> system.
> 
> For example, if I just take the wxdemo.py shipped with Twisted, and add to
> it a static text, it doesn't show - while if I change 
>         reactor.registerWxApp(app)
>         reactor.run(0)
> into 
>         app.MainLoop(0)
> the text is there. What the heck is wrong with this? Or am I doing something
> wrong? Does the same work at yours?

The method I use to mix the two is to poll Twisted during wxPython's
idle event:

class SomeTwistedStuff:	                                                                                                                                                              
    def fetch(self, ...):
        reactor.startRunning()
        # do stuff here, i.e. set up Deferreds, etc
         
    def poll(self):
        if reactor.running:
            reactor.runUntilCurrent()
            reactor.doIteration(0)
        return reactor.running
     
   def pending(self):
        return reactor.running

class Frame(wx.Frame):
    def __init__(self, ...):
        ...
        self.twistedthing = SomeTwistedStuff(...)
	self.Bind(wx.EVT_IDLE, self.OnIdle)
        self.twistedthing.fetch(...)

    def OnIdle(self, event):
        if self.twistedthing.poll():
            event.RequestMore()
        event.Skip()

        
I yanked this out of a working app, so hopefully I didn't omit anything
important.  You'll of course probably want to pass callbacks/errbacks
from your wxPython portion of the app to the Twisted portion so that the
GUI can be synchronized with the Twisted backend.

I've also seen examples of doing the polling using a wx.Timer, but this
does a lot of unnecessary polling if Twisted doesn't have anything
available.  Probably not a lot of overhead, but certainly unnecessary
overhead in most cases.

Note that I tried using the wxPython reactor but found that so much time
was spent in Twisted that the GUI became unacceptably slow.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 08:30:45 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:30:45 +0200
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
References: <4e4a11f8.0409232355.6ba0468d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.3834.1096015522.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1gkzdqj.12l7f9b1n0p9plN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> wrote:

> I didn't reply to Alex message because it's clear that he has
> a very personal problem with me (and ... no, I've no idea why).

I don't know why you started posting flaming attacks against me four
years or so ago (on Italian newsgroups on C++, where you were advocating
returning error codes rather than raising exceptions, and I the
reverse), but it was so blatant (you specifically accused me of
intellectual dishonesty, just like that, out of the blue!) that I
killfiled you -- and I remember a few days later somebody _else_ (who
actually agreed with you on the technical aspects of the discussion!)
was trying to point out to you that you were the one who had exceeded
the boundaries of good taste and indulged in uncalled-for personal
attacks.  We're talking years 2000 or 2001, not the dark ages, so I bet
Google Groups has everything in its archives if one just googles for
both of our surnames together.

Of course, I'm using a different newsreader now, with a different
killfile and all, and I wasn't reminded of that occasion until you
showed your colors again -- now, I see, by trying to accuse _me_ of
having mysterious personal problems with you, when each time the foam is
so evidently at _your_ mouth...

> My decision so was to stop feeding his hate and I ignored him;

Oh, I see, _that_ must be why you spewed so much venom in your post that
yet another "innocent bystander" felt it had to be condemned...!

Guess you deserve commendation for your consistency: four years ago you
said you were new to C++ yet had the arrogance to start personal attacks
and insults against me on the subject, now you say you're new to Python
and you behave identically -- my compliments.

Well, *PLONK* again, then, hopefully for good.


Alex


From jbellis at gmail.com  Sat Oct 30 09:37:07 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan  Ellis)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 06:37:07 -0700
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1099143427.211797.79520@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> Hello,
>
> another Perl/Python question: the subject says it all.
>
> Perl is going to change dramatically to become a more powerful and
> easier to (read|write) language.

Perl6 has been in development since 2001 and isn't anywhere near done.
No doubt it will be done sometime but it reminds me of Gnu Hurd --
working alternatives are out there so it's hard to get excited about
vapor.  (Which isn't exactly fair to the Hurd guys. :)

Perl6 will fix some of the worst broken-ness of perl5 but I haven't
seen anything indicating that Wall's TMTOWTDI philosophy has changed,
so it will still suck for anything nontrivial.

-Jonathan



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 13 08:32:03 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:32:03 +0200
Subject: locks
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <ckj783$atj$1@sea.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> And in general: python has the PIL - Python Interpreter Lock -

the lock is usually known as GIL (Global Interpreter Lock).  see:

    http://docs.python.org/api/threads.html

PIL is something else:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=PIL

</F> 





From scarlson at omnimn.com  Fri Oct  1 09:20:28 2004
From: scarlson at omnimn.com (Scott Carlson)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 06:20:28 -0700
Subject: recursing through files in a folder
Message-ID: <df19e346.0410010520.2fb318d9@posting.google.com>

New to Python.  Very new.

I need to pass a parameter to the program I create that points to a
folder.  (How are params passed in?)

Then, I need to be able to scroll through each file in the folder,
looking for files with a particular naming convention.

What is the best way to be able to look at each file in a folder and
decide if I wish to use that one, and then go to the next file?

Thanks,
Scott


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct  9 15:43:25 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 12:43:25 -0700
Subject: integer type conversion problem/question
In-Reply-To: <slrncmgf4i.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
References: <slrncmf2hc.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
	<slrncmgf4i.dg0.faheem@Chrestomanci.home.earth>
Message-ID: <20041009124139.EDB7.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> It looks like using a random number generator which uses unsigned ints
> as its seeds with Python is probably close to impossible then. Can
> anyone suggest a good C/C++ random number implementation which can be
> used easily with Python in this fashion? I want something that is
> full-featured, ie. has reasonable support for different random number
> distributions. Also, something that was already packaged in a
> reasonable fashion as part of a shared library would be nice. I
> suppose something whose seeds are stored as ints or longs would work
> Ok.

Mersenne Twister is included with Python 2.3 and later (maybe even 2.2,
I can't remember that far back).

You can use it via:
import random

It includes various distributions, read the documentation.


> I did have one followup question. If Python implements its integers as
> signed C ints then surely 2^31 - 1 should be an integer rather than a
> long? But I get
> 
>  In [9]: 2**31 - 1
>  Out[9]: 2147483647L
> 
>  In [10]: type(2**31 - 1)
>  Out[10]: <type 'long'>

It first creates 2**31, then subtracts 1.
Try 2**30 + (2**30 -1).



From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Oct 11 18:19:52 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:19:52 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F62@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> Maybe I'm just ignorant or behind the times, but I still 
> haven't seen a 
> real argument as to *why* lambdas are so useful.  There's some 
> assertions about how avoiding giving something a name makes things 
> clearer, which I disagree with.  ('Explicit is better than 
> implicit.'  I 
> don't see how 'no name' makes the purpose of a code segment 
> clearer than 
> 'some meaningfully descriptive name', no matter how many times it's 
> asserted.)  There's complaints that it takes a whole two 
> extra lines to 
> type a proper function def, as opposed to being able to use lambdas 
> inline... but again, I'd claim that with a properly named 
> function, the 
> intent at point-of-use will be quite clear and the cost of two extra 
> lines of code is minimal.

All I can say is, "sometimes it's not minimal". Adapters are a great
example:

xforms = {dejavu.icontains: lambda x, y: x + " Like '%" + y[1:-1] +
"%'",
          dejavu.icontainedby: icontainedby,
          dejavu.istartswith: lambda x, y: x + " Like '" + y[1:-1] +
"%'",
          dejavu.iendswith: lambda x, y: x + " Like '%" + y[1:-1] + "'",
          dejavu.ieq: lambda x, y: x + " = " + y,
          dejavu.now: lambda: "Now()",
          dejavu.today: lambda: "DateValue(Now())",
          dejavu.year: lambda x: "Year(" + x + ")",
          }

Conciseness is a continuum. I understand (and agree with) your
contention that many lambdas wouldn't suffer from a full function
definition. Writing the above with full functions, however, would take
us to the other extreme end of the continuum, which is boilerplate for
boilerplate's sake. (If I ever write another unnecessary Java
getter/setter pair, shoot me. ;)

The other use case where I use lambdas heavily is in querying
databases*; I wrap up lambdas in an Expression object which can then be
passed around through the domain model and into the data source layer
(and can even be pickled). I chose lambdas for two reasons:

1) I admit, one-liners. But much more importantly,

2) The restricted expressivity of lambdas is a plus when using them as
queries. I purposefully don't want to have to handle multiple statements
(especially loops), nor assignment. They just get in the way. Finally,
when building such queries on the fly, I gain a bit of a security;
lambdas function like little "restricted execution" blocks.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org

* See the "logic" module in svn://casadeamor.com/dejavu/trunk


From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sun Oct 17 23:10:10 2004
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:10:10 -0400
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <-JSdna307N6Pqe7cRVn-qQ@giganews.com>

 From the docs:

 > "The config module can read config files in Microsoft's ini file format,
 > java's properties file format, or its own python config format -- these
 > can even be mixed."

To me this does not sound appealing. People might just end
up being confused of what the actual file format is.
All these formats are so simple that supporting them all
only makes the usage more complicated.

 > "as long as the components of the path are valid Python identifiers,
 > there is a more convenient attribute syntax available:"

This means that some features can only be used if the parameter
names are valid python identifiers, right? When I put it that way,
it is a bit less attractive.

Istvan.


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Oct 17 22:42:27 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:42:27 -0700
Subject: md5 and large files
References: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<4172a5f6$0$28202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4172AA52.9030606@vt.edu>
	<cpafz4cal6a.fsf@cabernet.nelson.monkey.org>
	<43Fcd.6379$6k2.3374@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <vcnb42-mvv.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
> I think most of the time is spent doing I/O, not computing
> the checksum.  That's probably even true if written in C.

The OP said they were using 4GB files, so unless the machine
has more than that amount of memory, either algorithm on
the entire file will be almost entirely disk bound.

Roger 




From chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu  Sun Oct 17 01:56:07 2004
From: chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu (Chris S.)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 05:56:07 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <5Ikcd.5517$6k2.1064@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02> <ckr3j8$9fq$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<XNgcd.1933$B34.419@trndny02>
	<5Ikcd.5517$6k2.1064@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <XPncd.667$UX3.575@trndny03>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> One way is with groups.  Make each pattern into a regexp
> pattern then concatenate them as
>   (pat1)|(pat2)|(pat3)| ... |(patN)
> 
> Do the match and find which group has the non-None value.
> 
> You may need to tack a "$" on the end of string (in which
> case remember to enclose everything in a () so the $ doesn't
> affect only the last pattern).
> 
> One things to worry about is you can only have 99 groups
> in a pattern.
> 
> Here's example code.
> 
> 
> import re
> 
> config_data = [
>  ("abc#e#", "Reactor meltdown imminent"),
>  ("ab##", "Antimatter containment field breach"),
>  ("b####f", "Coffee too strong"),
>  ]
> 
> as_regexps = ["(%s)" % pattern.replace("#", ".")
>                  for (pattern, text) in config_data]
> 
> full_regexp = "|".join(as_regexps) + "$"
> pat = re.compile(full_regexp)
> 
> 
> input_data = [
>     "abadb",
>     "abcdef",
>     "zxc",
>     "abcq",
>     "b1234f",
>     ]
> 
> for text in input_data:
>     m = pat.match(text)
>     if not m:
>         print "%s?  That's okay." % (text,)
>     else:
>         for i, val in enumerate(m.groups()):
>             if val is not None:
>                print "%s?  We've got a %r warning!" % (text, 
> config_data[i][1],)
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the output I got when I ran it
> 
> 
> abadb?  We've got a 'Antimatter containment field breach' warning!
> abcdef?  We've got a 'Reactor meltdown imminent' warning!
> zxc?  That's okay.
> abcq?  We've got a 'Antimatter containment field breach' warning!
> b1234f?  We've got a 'Coffee too strong' warning!

Thanks, that's almost exactly what I'm looking for. The only downside I 
see is that I still need to add and remove patterns, so continually 
recompiling the expression might be expensive.


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Mon Oct 11 17:03:26 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:03:26 -0400
Subject: [OT] Where to host an open source project? Sourceforge?
 Who	offers Subversion already?
In-Reply-To: <ckeklr$e45$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <ckd61r$i4m$1@newshispeed.ch> <ckd728$288u$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
	<ckeklr$e45$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <416AF51E.7020503@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>You can also host your project infrastructure wherever you want and use
>one of open SVN repositiories (see list at
>http://subversion.tigris.org/propaganda.html). Anyway, personally I am
>really happy with BerliOS. Good support, nice people, many site
>features.
>
>  
>
Reliable?



From apardon at forel.vub.ac.be  Tue Oct 12 04:19:55 2004
From: apardon at forel.vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 08:19:55 GMT
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrncmn4q1.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>

Op 2004-10-11, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
> gabriele renzi wrote:
>
>>
>> then what you want is a better lambda. One where you can use return, 
>> maybe, and  where you can have statements and multiple expressions.
>> Don't throw away the baby with the bathwater.
>
>
> But because of Python's line- and indentation-based syntax, doing all of 
> that on a single line is... um... awkward at best, to put it mildly.  

Which is one of the reasons I think the indentation-based syntax was
a mistake. If the syntax becomes an argument against a construct
in the language, something is wrong with the syntax IMO.

-- 
Antoon Pardon


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Oct 26 06:29:22 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:29:22 +0200
Subject: Tkinter 3000 / WCK (Re: Integrate Tile into Tkinter)
References: <3Gkdd.2134$Ag.1192@fe37.usenetserver.com>
	<2u5oqmF27qhb2U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cll8u5$dt9$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jon Perez wrote:
> Speaking of Tkinter, I noticed that there has
> been progress with Fredrik Lundh's Tkinter 3000/
> Widget Construction Kit project.  Specifically,
> you can now make your own Tkinter widgets from
> scratch using pure Python.

footnote: this functionality has been available since early 2001.

</F> 





From noone at here.com  Mon Oct 25 11:36:25 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:36:25 +0100
Subject: wx position of items in list
References: <clgn8j$pu8$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk><clgr8d$jrt$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<mailman.5405.1098675599.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clj6cu$aa1$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi Cliff,

Thankyou for your help. I know that you can't divide a string by an integer
and true to form I didn't check with 'print' to see what was going on.
Yesterday I tried len, but without the range attached...

Looking at demos and examples it is easy (most of the time) to see how
things work. It is another thing to be creative and cook up some code (even
the most basic) when you are trying to run before you can walk. I do need to
just play around with loads of basic stuff, but like a child in a sweet shop
I get carried away. Saying that I do think that it is sometimes easier to
learn by applying all the help I can get to problems for my project. Getting
something to work for some problem of your own is less dry than some
tutorial example and seems to spot-light.the language.

But before I go to look up some more tutorials I would like to ask something
else
regarding this problem. I can see how  this works, but what it does is to
move the
whole text to the new position. Basically I was hoping for a simplified word
wrap.
This is the code (slightly altered) from the wx DragImage demo that I'm
using.

        # Make a shape from some text
        l1 =
['a','b','c','d','a','b','c','d','a','b','c','d','a','b','c','d',]
        text = " "+"".join(l1)
        bg_colour = wx.Colour(57, 115, 57)  # matches the bg image
        font = wx.Font(36, wx.MODERN, wx.NORMAL, wx.NORMAL, 0, "Arial")
        textExtent = self.GetFullTextExtent(text, font)

        # create a bitmap the same size as our text
        bmp = wx.EmptyBitmap(textExtent[0], textExtent[1])

        # 'draw' the text onto the bitmap
        dc = wx.MemoryDC()
        dc.SelectObject(bmp)
        dc.SetBackground(wx.Brush(bg_colour, wx.SOLID))
        dc.Clear()
        dc.SetTextForeground(wx.RED)
        dc.SetFont(font)
        dc.DrawText(text, 0, 0)
        dc.SelectObject(wx.NullBitmap)
        mask = wx.Mask(bmp, bg_colour)
        bmp.SetMask(mask)
        shape = DragShape(bmp)
        for i in range(len(text)):
            shape.pos = (145, 170 + (i//12)*100)
        shape.text = "Some dragging text"
        self.shapes.append(shape)

I think that I need to have something further back in the code, before,
the text is drawn. I've tried  \ n in the text, but I can't get that to
work.
Any ideas?

Thanks for your time and patience,

Malcolm





From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sun Oct 10 00:14:57 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 00:14:57 -0400
Subject: help me
In-Reply-To: <4168ADAB.8080708@kzoo.edu>
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>	<3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>	<mailman.4646.1097373842.5135.python-list@python.org>	<bM1ad.8006$UP1.5707@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<4168AD38.8080209@cloudthunder.com>
	<4168ADAB.8080708@kzoo.edu>
Message-ID: <4168B741.4020208@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>>
> Alright, you say he doesn't need a dictionary, and the other guy says 
> he doesn't actually need eval. What is this mysterious non-exec, 
> non-eval, non-globals(), non-dictionary solution? ;)
>
Nevermind.  My bad.  I misread your post.  Go with the globals() 
function, it will save you some headaches vs. eval() and exec.  On the 
other hand, you could also use eval w/ the globals dictionary.  I don't 
think that has any problems but Andrew can correct me on this one.


From michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it  Sat Oct 30 05:28:35 2004
From: michele.petrazzo at TOGLIunipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:28:35 +0200
Subject: [wx] Simple image editor
Message-ID: <clvmtr$8vl$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

I want to create a simple image editor (with wxPython) for my application.
Now I'm able to zoom, draw with a pen, insert a text into the loaded 
image, and undo changes (for this I reload the image and redraw all the 
lines/text, but not the last.)

My problem is how can I move the texts/lines that are insert into Image, 
after placed? How the image editors (like GIMP) are able to move the 
objects? Please don't tell me to read the GIMP's source :).

Thanks,
Michele

P.s. I hope you understand me, my English is horrible.


From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sun Oct  3 10:50:18 2004
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:50:18 +0100
Subject: should these be fixed for python 2.4?
References: <yfshdpemlb4.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<donn-F0DB84.11484101102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<yfsoejmi4mj.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk> <10lrp62cr2uqc5a@corp.supernews.com>
	<cam7d.455$UP1.116@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<yfsacv5h224.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>
	<slrnclvng4.u8f.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
Message-ID: <yfs8yanetzp.fsf@black4.ex.ac.uk>

Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> writes:

> Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote:
>>  Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:
>> > Some of them do you commands.mkarg (the only function I know of in the
>> > standard library that does shell escaping).  
>> 
>>  Thanks -- I didn't know about that (small wonder -- it's undocumented; no
>>  docstring and not in the manual).
>
> ...and doesn't do the right thing on windows - see my other posting in
> this thread!

Yes, that's why I mentioned the need for a "documented and *reasonably
reliable*" version in another post (the code also happens to be terribly
inefficient, but that's presumably not such a big concern).

'as


From grante at visi.com  Wed Oct 20 10:56:09 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 14:56:09 GMT
Subject: How to python raw socket ????
References: <cko3dl$91d$1@netnews.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <41767c89$0$1320$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-15, Leon <square690410 at yahoo.com.tw> wrote:

It's not good form to rely on the subject of the message to ask
your question.  Repeat the question in the body of the message:

   <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>

> have any relate module ??

Not that I'm aware of.

> or write example ??

Here's a raw socket demo that sends and receives raw Ethernet
packets using protocol number 0x55aa on interface eth1.  The
file is available at <ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/grante/python/rawDemo.py>.

Last time I looked, the socket module supported raw sockets
under Linux only.

---------------------------------8<---------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python

import sys
import string
import struct
from socket import *

proto = 0x55aa

s = socket(AF_PACKET, SOCK_RAW, proto)
s.bind(("eth1",proto))

ifName,ifProto,pktType,hwType,hwAddr = s.getsockname()

srcAddr = hwAddr
dstAddr = "\x01\x02\x03\x04\x05\x06"
ethData = "here is some data for an ethernet packet"

txFrame = struct.pack("!6s6sh",dstAddr,srcAddr,proto) + ethData

print "Tx[%d]: "%len(ethData) + string.join(["%02x"%ord(b) for b in ethData]," ")
		      
s.send(txFrame)

rxFrame = s.recv(2048)

dstAddr,srcAddr,proto = struct.unpack("!6s6sh",rxFrame[:14])
ethData = rxFrame[14:]

print "Rx[%d]: "%len(ethData) + string.join(["%02x"%ord(b) for b in ethData]," ")

s.close()
---------------------------------8<---------------------------------



-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ... I want to perform
                                  at               cranial activities with
                               visi.com            Tuesday Weld!!


From exarkun at divmod.com  Sun Oct 31 22:11:42 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 03:11:42 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
In-Reply-To: <41852310.1271953001@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <20041101031142.9171.2019613507.divmod.quotient.1244@ohm>

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:00:07 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> BTW, will anything that works in a list comprehension work in a generator expression
> (assuming one does not depend on the generator expression having leftover outside
> side effect bindings like the LC version)?
> 

  Nope.  For example, I don't think the code in this thread will work if converted to a generator expression.  A simplified example:

    >>> x = 0 
    >>> list(x for x in iter(lambda: x + 1, 4))
    ( runs forever, so C-c )
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <generator expression>
    KeyboardInterrupt
    >>> [x for x in iter(lambda: x + 1, 4)]
    [1, 2, 3]
    >>> 

  `x' in the lambda in the list comprehension resolves to a different name than `x' in the generator comprehension.

  Jp


From timr at probo.com  Wed Oct 20 02:55:37 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:55:37 -0700
Subject: Calculate the Timespan with wxDateTime
References: <3d199ee1.0410151359.16562bed@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tq2cn0tq8ho1340u3u9bcick95jgf0h6oi@4ax.com>

jadethacker at hotmail.com (mee-shell) wrote:

>I am a newbie of python.  I just started to look at the wxDateTime in
>wx and wanted to know how to use the AddTS method to calculate the
>timespan.  Thanks.

I'd like to expand a bit on what Peter said.

wxWidgets includes a vast array of functionality, much of which already
exists in Python.  Rather than waste time porting stuff that won't be used,
wxPython only implements those part of wxWidgets that do not already have
good Python implementations.

I would suggest you look into mxDateTime.  It will do what you want easily.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From lienard.bruno at free.fr  Mon Oct 25 17:38:01 2004
From: lienard.bruno at free.fr (Bruno Lienard)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:38:01 +0200
Subject: Recommended books about Python by IBM developerWorks
Message-ID: <417d7238$0$2510$636a15ce@news.free.fr>

Look at the recommended books about Python, by the IBM developerWorks site:


http://devworks.krcinfo.com/WebForms/ProductList.aspx?Search=Category&id=1400&p=OpenSourceProjects


So, a lot of Python books, a lot of "new books".

Bruno Lienard 




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 23 18:32:26 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:32:26 -0700
Subject: Events and file polling in a C extension
In-Reply-To: <20041023143030.0AF5.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041023182553.8F8.0.NOFFLE@ID-7776.user.dfncis.de>
	<20041023143030.0AF5.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041023153113.0AF8.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> I believe that most languages support event handling in one way or
> another. Here is one way...
> 
> def handle_event(event):
>     if event.typ == 'new_connection':
>         #handle a new connection
>     elif event.typ == ...
> 
> Or, if you want to use something that already has much of this designed
> and built for sockets, check out asyncore or asynchat.  Use
> asyncore.loop(timeout, 1) to poll the sockets every 1/100th of a second
> or so, and you should be good.

That is not to say that asyncore.loop(timeout, 1) will poll the sockets
every 100th a second, just that you should make that call about every
1/100th a second (timeout of 0 would be a true poll).

 - Josiah



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 03:24:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:24:44 +0200
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1glgtex.1higl71a7c3gnN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
   ...
> used to thinking of ^ as a bitwise operator.  What if you saw
> 
>   string1 xor string2?
> 
> Wouldn't you expect it to be equivalent to
> 
>   (string1 and (not string2)) or ((not string1) and string2)

Personally, I would not expect 'xor' to be non-commutative, and yet the
expression YOU apparently would expect it to be equivalent to obviousy
is...:

   'foo' xor ''

would be True, while

   '' xor 'foo'

would be 'foo'.  At least, that's how the "equivalent to" expression you
give evaluates, I believe.  The problem is that "not x" is a bool for
any x, while "x and y" isn't.

If I had to design the least-astonishing definition of xor in Python, I
would probably have to settle for a mix of the type-producing behavior
of and/or (always return one of the two operands, a wonderful thing) vs
not (always return a bool, and it's hard to imagine it doing otherwise).
"a xor b" would return one of the two operands if exactly one of them
evaluates to true in a boolean context, but False if both or neither do
(sigh).
E.g.,

def xor(a, b):
    if (a and b) or (not a and not b): return False
    else: return a or b

Unfortunately, it seems to me that his unholy admixture of return types
(hard to avoid...), as well as the inevitable lack of short-circuiting,
makes such a hypothetical 'xor' _WAY_ less useful than the existing
'and'/'or' operators are:-(


Alex


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Oct  5 22:15:39 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 22:15:39 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <CuWdnYPaJ93S1v7cRVn-hg@powergate.ca>
References: <55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>	<4162CFCE.6040700@cloudthunder.com>	<20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4365.1097001657.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<CuWdnYPaJ93S1v7cRVn-hg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <pDI8d.4737$gk.3471@okepread01>

Peter L Hansen wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> 
>> Kids. You should try it. When they come to you with a list of 45+
>> questions about the meaning of life, the universe and everything, then
>> you may be able to understand how did _we_ feel. :-)
>>
>> (Excuse me -- you're a retired philosophy teacher, so these questions
>> must be easy for you. Sorry ;-).
> 
> 
> Carlos, bad example!  "Meaning of life" is about the farthest
> removed thing from the level of Richard's questions that you
> could find.
> 
> More like this (forgive the lack of humour in a perfect
> opportunity for it... it's been a long day and my brain
> is doubtless too slow to make the effort effective):
> 
> Daddy, please write down answers to each of the following
> questions, paying particular attention to proper English
> usage and formatting, thanks:
> 
> 1. Do ducks have legs?
> 2. Is yellow a higher or lower wavelength than green?
> 3. What's the airspeed of an African swallow?
>    a. And an unladen one?
> 4. What recent attempts has the Hormel food products company
>    made at restricting the use of the word Spam for unsolicited
>    email?  Were they successful?  Why not?
> 5. Can we reach the ceiling if we jump?
> 6. Cement trucks
> 7. Where is mommy?
> 8. What is Google used for?
> 9. Show us.
> 10. Now.
> 11. What day is it today?
> 12. And tomorrow?
> 13. The day after?
> 14. ....
> .....
> 
> I can't go on...
> 
Well, of course, the favorite tactic of all intelligent children is a 
more-or-less endless sequence of follow-up "why"s.

> Suffice to say that rather than be delighted, Richard would
> be appalled at the sheer lack of functioning gray matter that
> his non-existent kids were demonstrating, and he'd be back
> here the next day asking us where he could find a good lawyer...
> to disown them!
> 
To be honest he's started (finally :-) to reveal himself as someone who 
might actually be prepared to put up with "serious" questions, by which 
I mean the questions in which the child was genuinely interested in the 
answer rather than indulging in simple attention-seeking (which is also 
sometimes legitimate behavior).

> (As he points out in his reply, it is a quite different case.)
> 
> -Peter

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From http  Sat Oct  2 16:35:43 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Oct 2004 13:35:43 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
References: <mailman.4199.1096747084.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xmzz4eu3k.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Campbell Kwok" <forsberg5 at hotmail.com> writes:
> Hi, I am trying to write a program for my school homework and I'm a
> little stuck. The homework have to do with barcodes and I need to read
> the barcode, then add up all the odd number positions(eg a barcode of
> 123456789012, then the odd is 1,3,5,7,9,1) I do not know how to get
> the odd number positions out of that str of numbers. Please help me

If x is a string, then x[0] is the first character, x[1] is the second
character, and so forth.


From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 18:31:48 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 15:31:48 -0700
Subject: get list of callable methods
References: <mailman.4965.1097778895.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0410141431.2c488b1d@posting.google.com>

You could check to see if the module's source file matches the
function's source file:

# returns 
#  True if func was defined in mod's file, 
#  False if not _or_ if source file isn't known

def f_defined_by_module(func, mod):
  try:
    return func.func_code.co_filename == mod.__file__
  except:
    return False

# Return functions defined in mod
def module_defined_functions(mod):
  return [f for f in mod.__dict__.itervalues() if callable(f) and \
    f_defined_by_module(f, mod)]


But then again, there are plenty of ways to create modules or
functions that don't even have a source file...




John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.4965.1097778895.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> What is the best way to get a list of all functions actually defined
> in a module, ignoring those functions that the module may have
> imported but not defined?
> 
> The following gets a list of all the callables, but includes functions
> that some.module imports
> 
> funcs = []
> for o in dir(some.module):
>      if o.startswith('_'): continue
>      p = getattr(some.module, o)
>      if not callable(p): continue
>      funcs.append(p)
> 
>  
> 
> 
> JDH


From cam at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Tue Oct  5 11:33:47 2004
From: cam at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:33:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: AI Mind (Was: Sound capture)
References: <ceeeqr$rgi$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu> <410ad3d1@news.victoria.tc.ca>
Message-ID: <cjuesr$gjb$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

uj797 at victoria.tc.ca (Arthur T. Murray) writes:

>"Chris S." writes on Fri, 30 Jul 2004:

>The sensorium is where we amateur mind-makers count on
>help from the amateur robot-makers. They want a mind
>for their robots; we want robots for our AI to live in.

Modularly separating the design for mind and body in this way supposes
a) that it is possible, i.e., mind design does not lie athwart body
and brain design, and b), given that supposition, that the assumptions
you have made about the nature of the interface are workable.

A growing number of roboticists, AI researchers, and philosophers of
mind argue that mind design *does* lie athwart brain and body
design. If they're right your project is doomed.
--
Chris Malcolm cam at infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]



From agriff at tin.it  Sun Oct 31 03:30:14 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:30:14 GMT
Subject: [OT] Re: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5689.1099092886.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nl07o0lr3dvunoq2j0avuvmftnc837fvoc@4ax.com>
	<pan.2004.10.30.18.29.36.74744@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5721.1099166880.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rc79o0trh8qi4mknqp9mcdmj61016itteb@4ax.com>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:06:04 -0400, Brian van den Broek
<bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>warning: off topic nitpicking below!
>
>Jeremy Bowers said unto the world upon 2004-10-30 13:29:
>> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:12:36 +0000, Andrea Griffini wrote:
>> 
>>>You can't count using base 1 with positional systems.
>> 
>> 
>> Well, you can, sort of. You end up with the integers, obviously, and the
>> result has a rather striking resemblance to the modern foundations of
>> number theory, in which there is only one number, 0, and the "increment"
>> function which returns a number one larger. If you want three, it is
>> expressed increment(increment(increment(0))), which is rather similar to
>> the base-1 number "111". 
>
>I take it you didn't mean 0 was the only number, but rather the only 
>primitive number. (Alternatively " '0' is the only individual constant" 
>in the cant I prefer.)
>
>I am also surprised to see "increment" -- I come to that material with 
>working in Philosophy of Mathematics and Logic, but almost every 
>presentation I have ever seen uses "successor". (I'm going off of 
>philosophical and mathematical logic presentations.)

Also the representation used in that context is normally
"0,s0,ss0" or a similar one; anyway using TWO symbols.

In math, or anywhere you need precision, it's important
to weight the words; I said "positional" and normally the
unary counting method is not considered "positional".
There are a lot of methods for representing numbers, both
historically used (roman, for example) or just theorically
possible. When the word "base" is used the assumption is a
positional system; and 1 cannot be used as base in a
positional system. More to the point the objection that
the code that Alex wrote didn't handle "unary" counting
is IMO quite pointless as that counting system is not
more related to the positional than the ancient roman
counting system.

Of course anyone can give the the words whatever meaning,
it just gets harder to communicate.

Also, if ones really wants to support another different
number representation system after a generic positional
I would prefer the roman one, that's still used nowdays.

Andrea


--
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a
scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to
mean?neither more nor less."


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 12:26:11 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:26:11 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
   ...
> The problem is that CPython doesn't have thread-local storage.  All

In 2.4 it does -- see threading.local documentation at
<http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-threading.html> (and
even better, the docstring of the new _threading_local module).


Alex


From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct  2 17:38:34 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 14:38:34 -0700
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>

Sam Holden <sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
>
>Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
>> This particular pickle is a disagreement of number: since there is only 
>> one village, the correct slogan should be "... is missing its idiot". If 
>> you thought it was "... it's idiot" then take two demerits and refrain 
>> from posting on c.l.py for 48 hours.
>
>Their isn't necessarily plural so that isn't a problem. Since arguing
>grammar isn't something I can do successfully, I'll instead resort
>to an appeal to authority and say that one of the authors of 
>"The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language" agrees with me:


Two points.  First, that web page just QUOTES from "The Cambridge Grammar
of the English Language."  The page itself is just a blog, and everyone
knows that "if you see it on a blog, it must be true."  ;/

Second, "their" is allowed as a singular pronoun only in those cases where
a gender-specific pronoun is called for, but the gender is unclear or would
be sexist.  Instead of "Everyone brought his Python manual," we are now
allowed to say "Everyone brought their Python manual."

However, in the example that started this, "village" has no gender.  Thus,
I don't see that "their" is an acceptable alternative to "its" in this
case.

I love this kind of debate.  I wish it didn't irritate people so much...
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 16:45:16 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:45:16 -0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <20041018131744.0A43.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041018120633.0A3D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<2ED206F0-213F-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com>
	<20041018131744.0A43.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <864d370904101813454f31a5d5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:20:51 -0700, Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> 
> > class MyContainer(Container):
> >      p = Value(2)
> >      y = Value(0)
> >      t = Value(-1)
> >      h = Value(20)
> >      o = Value('x')
> >      n = Value('z')
> 
> I missed that.
> 
> I am sure that Carlos has even made TypedAttr into factories that
> produce properties.
> 
> Very nice; I'm sorry I didn't see it earlier.

Yes, that's it. The GenericTemplate module handles the template class
and the attribute implementation (including ordering and type
checking). The inifile reader handles only the ini configuration
details.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct  3 18:59:41 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:59:41 -0400
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4227.1096839829.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4227.1096839829.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fu-dnW0ayarAGf3cRVn-qg@powergate.ca>

Neil Benn wrote:
> Peter L Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message 
> news:<AcadnZxtQPvH9cDcRVn-sg at powergate.ca>...
> <snip>
>  > I meant to mention, but only barely implied, that the source is
>  > actually available, on Engenuity's project page.  It was a
>  > Cavro RSP9000 robot.
> 
> Oh, how long ago was that as far as I know that model was discontinued a 
> long time ago.  I skipped a few of them myself (there's nothing wrong 
> with the machine - it's just an old model and not up to today's standards).

The project was only a couple of months ago.  I have no idea how
old the robot itself was, but that wasn't my concern.  The customer
had a robot and needed software... maybe he got it on Ebay. :-)

> <snip>
>  > I use the terms "industrial control" and "automation" rather
>  > interchangeably, along with "laboratory robotics" and other
>  > terms.  It's all the same thing, regardless of the end user,
>  > except when regulatory issues get involved (aeronautics, FDA
>  > approvals, etc).
> 
> Hmm, not sure about that - you need to look at the process it is being 
> used in and the cost of downtime.  In addition you also have to consider 
> the end users  and the cost of a lost unit - this is why people talk 
> about industrial automation in a lab setting with no concept of what 
> they mean, in the field of laboratory automaiton industrial automation 
> is typically used as a marketing slogan!!
>  In life science unit cost is an awkward indicator as it is very 
> difficult to put a cost on a lost unit - it could be nothing, it could 
> be billions!!  If you are interested in this field then there is an 
> active mailing list on laboratory automation, you can access it trhough 
> the american link of www.lab-robotics.org or the European link 
> www.elrig.org.

No idea what you are talking about, really.  When I use the terms
I used above, I mean nothing either more or less than "using a
computer to control other equipment".  Even talking to a
spectrum analyzer while controlling a signal generator falls under
the rubrik "industrial control" as far as I'm concerned.  Unit
costs?  Downtime?  Orthogonal issues which don't affect the term.

Hey, if anyone has a nice catch-all title that covers what you
call laboratory automation and what you call process control
and what you'd call the example I just gave, but which isn't
"industrial control", please offer it here.  I'd much rather
use a term that covers the whole spectrum rather than have to
list each subcategory of an unnamed general category each time
I try to talk to someone about it...

>  > Python certainly has *excellent* ("perfect"?) support for manipulating
>  > bytes, and if you consider that a string is not a string, but is
>  > actually a sequence of bytes, then other than being misnamed for
>  > this application area, a string provides great support for bytes...
>  > certainly *in practice* it works wonderfully, and I guess as someone
>  > who has used Python very successfully for industrial control I'm
>  > somewhat qualified to say so.
> 
> I've also got python running controlling a bunch of kit - as for byte 
> support, sorry but a byte array should not have the ability to be 
> changed into upper case unless it represents characters - which bytes 
> patently do not.  

I haven't encountered any of my byte arrays accidentally ending
up with the alphabetic characters upper-cased on me... maybe you
need to do more testing. <wink> :-)  Really, who cares if the
data type used happens to support some functionality that doesn't
apply to the area you use it for?  Nobody is forcing you to put
.upper() in your code...

> Although yep, if you ignore the fact that it 
> is a string, with the string stuff tagged onto the side then you can go 
> ahead and use it with gay abandon.

I guess that's exactly what I do.  Yippee-kay-yay!! ;-)

> Nope I'm a geek!!  I couldn't find it on your website though.

http://www.engcorp.com/main/projects/FrontPage  under the name
CavroCom...

> By client - I mean client calling my code; not a customer - a checked 
> exception is an excellent way of making the client calling code writer 
> think about these errors.  People who are unused to controlling machines 
> are often unaware of the lack of control you have over yuor environment. 
>  However, test driven development is a tool that is used in many 
> languages - not just python.  Certainly in the control of machines you 
> must test and test again - however test driven development is a tool 
> that can be used alongside a variety of other tools such as UML, checked 
> exceptions and stress testing (that's what I call playing Doom3 while 
> controlling the robot with your code).  TDD is not a magic wand, it's 
> just common sense (to me anyway).

No real disagreement there...

> Cheers, I wrote a wrapper around PySerial to implement 
> listeners/observers (that's what the polling loop does, Twisted probably 
> does the same) - although if there is a published and supported 
> implementation then I'll use that.

As I commented (I believe) in an offline reply to your earlier email,
I don't think the way Twisted does this is likely to be a close
enough fit to the architecture of your app to bother, but feel
free to investigate.  I haven't yet attempted to convert the
stuff that I wrote on PySerial to use Twisted, but I plan an
experiment soon.

>  This is my second attempt at a response - so if you get two mails back 
> then please forgive me!

No problem.  I believe I got and replied to an offline query(*) with
some of the same content, but in any case I'm much happier carrying
on such discussions "in public" where others can contribute, flame
us as the idiots we are for not knowing about project X on Sourceforge
(which they just started last week) which will do exactly what
we want, and so on. ;-)

-Peter

(*) But it's equally possible either your or my spam-filter dropped
a message and we never saw it. ;-)


From srijit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 04:39:46 2004
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 01:39:46 -0700
Subject: DCOM
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0410120039.1e4675b5@posting.google.com>

Hello,
I am looking for examples of simple DCOM server and client in Python
on Win 2K or Win XP. I could not find anything worth mentioning during
Google search.

I am also interested to learn whether ctypes module can be used for
writing DCOM server and client.

Best regards,
Srijit


From nospam at nowhere.com  Tue Oct 12 17:33:14 2004
From: nospam at nowhere.com (Greg Copeland)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:33:14 -0500
Subject: DePython?
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.12.21.33.12.291038@nowhere.com>

Anyone have any current links on Deeply Embedded Python?  I understand the
project died.  The archives seem to hint that some of it survived.  Anyone
have any current information?

Thanks!



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 05:59:03 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:59:03 +0200
Subject: C API eqivalent of object.__new__
References: <tyfis9uewct.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyfekkieka4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gkzg4y.a7sne11n04ng0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacv6e98e.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gkzozy.dbfgcurv3dfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyf655qewni.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1gl4rjf.ue50gr1dk7vtfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
   ...
> > "Make it work, make it right, make it fast", as Kent Beck says!-).
> 
> I've been quoting (a variation on) this to all and sundry, and
> attributing it to KB for a few years now, but I've completely
> forgotten where I came across it. Do you know its origin ?

Yes, I asked Kent (I wanted to make sure I attributed it properly in my
book!) for the right wording and origin: the right (original) wording is
exactly as above, and Kent says that he's heard this motto throughout
his childhood from his father, an engineer (I dunno in which field, it
seemed to me that ``as Kent Beck often writes, quoting his father, ...''
is an excellent attribution, so I didn't check further;-).


Alex


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Wed Oct 20 00:21:52 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:21:52 GMT
Subject: Turning a string into an programatic mathematical expression
References: <mailman.5204.1098239457.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <AJldd.26503$rY1.3836@fe2.texas.rr.com>

"Daniel Bickett" <dbickett at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.5204.1098239457.5135.python-list at python.org...
> The title really says it all. I'm trying to take input from a user
> (intended to be a mathematical expression), from a text box for
> example, and evaluate it mathematically within the program. For
> clarification: the user inputs the string "4*5(3-3)", I would be
> interested in a straight-forward way to find the result of that, based
> only on a string. The follow-up question would be how to incorporate
> variables into the mix, however I'll leave it at that for now. Thanks
> for your time :)
>
> Daniel Bickett

This is a pretty standard text processing task, often assigned as homework
in CS classes.  Check out this entry from the Python Tutor list
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2003-December/027032.html, authored
by Danny Yoo, which includes many helpful points about this problem.

You can also find a working Python expression parser included with the
examples provided with the pyparsing parser module, to be found at
http://pyparsing.sourceforge.net .

-- Paul McGuire




From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 18 13:50:47 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 10:50:47 -0700
Subject: Improving Pydoc  and submitting changes:)
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0410180950.69c469ab@posting.google.com>

Hello again!,
    I just wanted to start off saying I love this newsgroup!
Everytime I have an idea someone seems to post on it, or about it.
The word for today is **Synchronicity** !
    The reason for this post is to talk about pydoc. 
I have been writing a module that colorizes source code,
and have hoped to make it work with pydoc.
I saw a thread 2 days ago about pydoc and firefox having issues.
(Actually all Mozilla based browsers ignore 'file//:' type links.
It seems they see some security issues with local file access.
They list it as designed and won't fix it.)
In true C.L.PY fashion someone already had a fix for pydoc!
The amazing part is that piece of code is **exactly** what I needed.
Thank you Jeff Epler for that timesaver.
    Basically I have taken Jeff's patch and extended it.
I modified a copy of python 2.2 pydoc.py and python 2.4 pydoc.py .
It now serves up files as plain txt and colorized html instead of local linking.
Solves the Mozilla issue, which to me seems like it needs to be addressed,
for all the non I.E. users out there.
    Please kick the tires and give me some feedback. 
all you need is PySourceColor ver 1.8 or up and the patched pydoc for your version .
You can get them from here 'http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/e/mefjr75/'
I don't have python 2.3 version of pydoc , I will add it later if needed.

How to get it working:
    1)Remember to backup your old pydoc first so you can revert if you want to.
    2)Put both files in your Lib folder (PySourceColor and the modified pydoc).
    3)Start pydoc (python pydoc.py -g)
    4)Click a module and look to the top-right at the links.
    5)Click the bottom link. You should get served on-the-fly colorized code!

What I want to know is:
    *Sorry if these questions are obvious*
    Does anybody even care?
    Why does pydoc handle .pyw files diffrently?
    What does it need to make it better?
    What functions do you need added to PySourceColor?( example: Str2Tmpfile )
    What do I do to get these in the standard library, do I write a PEP:
      1) PySourcColor  .... It was designed to be standalone or modular
      2) pydoc changes .... Jeff Epler may have already submitted some of this
                            I used his patch as a starting point.
Thanks for your time,
    M.E.Farmer


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Sat Oct  9 23:49:51 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:49:51 -0400
Subject: Init a table of functions
In-Reply-To: <942ad.836$Bw1.213@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>
	<942ad.836$Bw1.213@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4168B15F.7030303@cloudthunder.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> Paulo da Silva wrote:
>
>> class foo:
>>     def f1():
>>         print "f1"
>>     f1=staticmethod(f1)
>
>   ...
>
>>     K={"f1" : foo.f1, \
>>        "f1" : foo.f2  \
>>     }
>
>
> The name 'foo' doesn't exist as a global variable
> until after the class definition has been fully
> executed.  To make what you want work do
>
>
> class foo:
>     def f1():
>         print "f1"
>     f1=staticmethod(f1)
>
>     def f2():
>         print "f2"
>     f2 = staticmethod(f2)
>
>     K={"f1" : f1,
>        "f2" : f2,
>     }
>
> This works because the class definition creates
> its own scope, and 'f1' and 'f2' are valid variables
> in that scope.
>
> NOTE: I removed the unneeded "\" characters for
> stylistic reasons.  If there's a "{" (or "(" or "[")
> then the interpreter doesn't assume that a newline
> means the end of the statement until after the
> closing character.
>
> The only time it's really needed is for the print
> statement.  In almost every other case you should
> use some sort of parenthesis, brackets, etc.  For
> example, instead of
>
> a = this_is_a_very_long_variable_name + \
>      and_here_is_another_long_name
>
> you should use
>
>
> a = (this_is_a_very_long_variable_name +
>      and_here_is_another_long_name)
>
>                 Andrew
>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com

Yo Andrew.  That doesn't work.  Check my previous post w/ errors.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 11:29:06 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:29:06 +0200
Subject: Interface of the set classes
References: <41824654$0$1779$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
	<1gmfcnn.1kc0foj1j6zq3hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4182518e$0$5916$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1gmfg7o.a3ycdbrc571eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> wrote:
   ...
> >>I don't understand why the sets has an interface of mapping object 
> >>without associated value and not an interface of sequence ?
> > 
> > Sequences have order, sets don't.
> 
> Yes, and ? I don't understand why that's a reason ? If you take the C++
> STL, the sets implements the sequence concept but without the impossible
> things to do

C++'s std::set<...> is ordered (and so is STL's, both at the time in
which the C++ standard took inspiration from it, and in its long-since
diverged state).

> ... so if you don't need the order in your list you can 
> switch freely from vector to list to sets depending on the properties or
> efficiency you want.

Nope -- to use std::set<T>, you need to be able to define a < comparator
that obeys the required semantic rules (either as an operator< on T, or
separately in various possible ways); to use std::vector<T>, you don't.
So, you cannot "switch freely" -- there are constraints.

That's because a std::set<...> is based on ordering (a Python's set is
based on hashing, so it imposes different constraints -- namely, that
the items be hashable, rather than having them be comparable).

Moreover, the set of valid operations on a std::vector<T>, call it V, is
extremely different from the set of valid operations on an std::set<T>,
call it S.  You can write V[3], but you can't write S[3], for example.
Here, too, your assertion that "you can switch freely" is utterly
baffling.

> I don't know why this is different in Python ! 

It's not: neither in Python nor in C++ can you switch freely.

> Using "add" instead of "append" and "update" instead of "extend" does
> not makes sense to me.

Try, in C++'s example above mentioned, calling S.push_back(...), then...
does the inability to use *THAT* make sense to you?  It sure does to
_me_: V has an order based on insertion, so "pushing a new item at the
back" makes sense (though Python's 'append' terminology is clearer).  S
doesn't (no order in Python, order based on item values in C++), so it
makes no sense to even think of "pushing onto the back" (or equivalently
"appending").  Basically, the commonality between S and V is: you can
loop on either (net of order &c issues).  And that holds in C++ as well
as in Python.

> It's even worse because Python rely more on 
> interface than in inheritence ... so making classes similar helps a lot
> reusability.

Not when the semantics are too different, as in the case of S and V.

> >>Then, why can't you at all access sets element by position ? As Python
> >>iterator are so poor (mainly, you cannot copy them ...) you have things
> > 
> > That's what itertools.tee is for (in Python 2.4).
> 
> Oky, thanks ^_^ So I should not need the __getitem__ anymore in sets.

Well, you surely didn't get operator[] on C++'s std::set<...>s, that's
for sure...

> > It would be false (in 2.4) -- set is a builtin type, side by side with
> > list and dict, not relying on either of them.
> 
> Yes, I know it will become a built-ins type ! But that does not explain

It is one now -- just download 2.4.

> this interface incompatible with lists. I would expect maximum 
> compatibility to be able to exchange the types. Even compatibility 
> between dictionnary and list is usefull ... because at some point you
> can consider a dictionnary as a list of tuples. And then, too bad you
> cannot because of simple design decisions.

You make claims, above, about the container templates in C++'s standard
library, that leave me in doubt.  The very fact that you make strong
assertions without even hedging them in any way appears to indicate you
are experienced with those templates and familiar with them -- yet what
you say is false, appearing to indicate you aren't.  So, I don't know if
I can take for granted all the rich conceptual framework of generic
programming, and just point to the fact that the interface differences
between Python's sequences, mappings and sets reflect exactly their
conceptual semantic differences -- but then, that should be prima facie
obvious!; or, do I need to try to forget the fact that you ever
mentioned C++, and try to teach and explain both the conceptual
underpinnings and the practical implications of generic programming (or
more generally signature-based polymorphism) in purely Pythonic terms.

You can probably clarify your background, and therefore which approach
would help you most, more effectively, than I can just "stab in the
dark" at it.  Do you know generic programming, and the offerings in
C++'s standard library, solidly and in-depth?  If so, do you feel that
C++'s standard library offers you the right amount of polymorphism among
vectors, sets and maps, while you perceive a lesser amount among
Python's lists, sets and dicts, and in what aspects precisely?  Whether
this is the case, or not, can you present a simplified problem where you
feel there isn't enough polymorphism for your purposes?  I may perhaps
be able to offer help in any case, both practical and theoretical, but
there is such a huge gulf among the various possibilities here that I
think it's probably better for you to explain exactly where you come
from and what you're after, first -- a theoretical background to help
you understand the rationale behind the choices, a practical approach to
use the best solutions for specific problems, etc, etc...!


> No, what I want is not a new container type. I just want to be able to
> change the container I use without changing all my codes ! It's too 

It depends on what operations you're doing on that container, of course.

> expensive. At the end, I finish using sets and hashsets from the STL 
> exported to Python as sequences. The efficiency is the same and it just
> works great :) I just feel bad not using the "standard" sets class ...

But -- there IS no operator[] in the C++ standard library's sets!  And
hashset (spelled with an underscore, I believe) is indeed a SGI
extension (so, in STL stricto sensu), but it's not in the C++ standard,
and AFAIK doesn't support indexing either...


Alex


From winlinchu at yahoo.it  Thu Oct  7 07:53:35 2004
From: winlinchu at yahoo.it (winlinchu at yahoo.it)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 04:53:35 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python.
Message-ID: <74b8e0de.0410070353.17ab0890@posting.google.com>

I would want to embed Python interpreter in an application, but only
the
interpreter without the modules of the standard library (unless sys,
builtin or some others, that are indispensables). In "setup.py" of the
source tree, there is a variable that must contain the list of modules
to not install. I have added some modules, but does not work.

How can I do? Thanks.


From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Sun Oct 24 07:58:14 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 07:58:14 -0400
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-D9DE07.17494723102004@localhost>
	<1gm4vyt.1eykww1d7p0i8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-6A88BA.07581424102004@localhost>

In article <1gm4vyt.1eykww1d7p0i8N%aleaxit at yahoo.com>,
 aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

> Michael J. Fromberger <Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU>
> wrote:
> > 
> > def lexgen(alph, maxlen = None):
> >     """Generate all the possible strings over the given alphabet in 
> >     lexicographic order.  Stop after generating the strings of maxlen,
> >     if provided; otherwise, generate forever."""
> >     
> >     ixs = []
> >     
> >     while maxlen is None or len(ixs) <= maxlen:
> >         while True:
> >             yield str.join('', [ alph[ixs[x]] for x in
> >                                  xrange(len(ixs) - 1, -1, -1) ])
> > 
> >             for pos in xrange(len(ixs)):
> >                 ixs[pos] = (ixs[pos] + 1) % len(alph)
> >                 if ixs[pos] <> 0:
> >                     break
> > 
> >             if sum(ixs) == 0:
> >                 break
> > 
> >         ixs += [0]
> 
> Nice, and different from what was offered in the other recent thread
> (and from what the OP asked for) since you generate all strings of
> length up to maxlen, while the request was for just those of length
> exactly x.  Still, this can easily be restricted, and maybe a few
> Pythonic tweaks with it...:

Hi, Alex,

Thanks for the feedback, you make some good points.  

> In 2.4 one can do a bit better for the yield, with
> 
>         yield ''.join(alph[i] for i in reversed(ixs))
> 
> [generator expression vs list comprehension, and reversed built-in vs 
> reversal by slicing].

Yes, I'm aware of both of those improvements, but since I do not yet 
have Python 2.4, I did not use any of its new features in my solution. 

In any case, thank you for the helpful comments on both sides of the 2.4 
divide.

Cheers,
-M

-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at  Fri Oct 22 04:41:17 2004
From: franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:41:17 +0200
Subject: excluding search string in regular expressions
References: <pc7fn0l6i0nso8onn0kh6gvt6o3sug4sd0@4ax.com>
	<fc8fn010l31ae6fqoh0ssj0f40beekafug@4ax.com>
	<H3Odd.4622$F6.1272762@news.siol.net>
	<2tprrsF23teulU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <hkhhn01voj1dvg6ggvpfk4adrkavtf504c@4ax.com>

On 21 Oct 2004 13:28:28 GMT, Oliver Fromme <olli at haluter.fromme.com>
wrote:

>Mitja <nun at example.com> wrote:
> > Franz Steinhaeusler wrote:
> > > Franz Steinhaeusler wrote:
> > > > [...]
> > > > single characters with [^ab] but I need not(ab)
> > > > 
> > > > not_this_brace_pattern(\*\*/\n).*::
> > > 
> > > Sorry,
> > > is this the solution (simple concatenating
> > > [^*][^*][^/]\n.*:: ?
> > 
> > That should do, though it's admittedly far from elegant; I, too,
> > would like to see a nicer solution.
>

Hello Oliver,

>It won't work correctly.  Franz needs a sub-expression that
>matches anything which is not "**/".  However, [^*][^*][^/]
>is a character-wise negation, not word-wise.  It doesn't
>match "**/", but neither does it match "xx/", nor any other
>string which has only one or two of the characters at the
>right position.

yes, you are right, the approach above is false.

>
>What you need is a "negative look-behind assertion".  

??, sounds interesting ;)

>The
>following Python-RE will do:  (?<!\*\*/)\n.*::
>Remember to use raw string notation, or you need to double
>the backslashes:
>
>my_re_str = r"(?<!\*\*/)\n.*::"


>my_re_obj = re.compile(my_re_str)
>
>Note that you might want to use \s* instead of \n, so any
>amount of whitespace (including newlines) is matched, not
>just one single newline.
>
>For more information about regular expressions supported by
>Python, refer to the Library Reference manual:
>
>http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html
>

(?<!...)
    Matches if the current position in the string is not preceded by a
match for..

That is it.

Many thanks for your helpful reply,

-- 
Franz Steinhaeusler


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 15:31:43 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:31:43 +0100
Subject: PythonUtils Update - ConfigObj Docs and file upload
References: <mailman.4221.1096826654.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1rk0m054p4avcoaubk9g2datdqfkrc4lre@4ax.com>

On 3 Oct 2004 18:04:08 -0000, darren at coolpink.net wrote:

>Sorry, but I am out of the office on Monday 27th September until Monday 11th October 2004.
>
>I will respond to your e-mail when I return
>

I can't wait ;-)

>If you need technical support please contact simonh at coolpink.net or mazen at coolpink.net
>

Hmm.. thanks for the offer.

>For any other enquiries please call the office on (0113) 272 3191 
>
>Thanks for your e-mail.
>

No problem...

Fuzzy



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Oct 19 05:44:07 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:44:07 +0200
Subject: Python Newbie
In-Reply-To: <cl2mdn$a6n$1@news.swman.net.uk>
References: <cl2mdn$a6n$1@news.swman.net.uk>
Message-ID: <20041019094406.GA2177@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 10:20:02AM +0100, abhay wrote:
> I am confused between learning Python or learning Perl. Please any view,
> opinions and suggestions are welcomed.

Both can be incredibly useful tools for you, with which you can solve
problems much faster than with the heavyweight languages/environments
that are hyped with the Enterprise(tm) label *cough*

I believe that if Python or Perl is right for you, depends on your way
of thinking. For some people, Perl fits their mind better. But for
those that are not Python is getting them to where they want faster,
and with less headaches ;-)

I'd recommend you first download the Python interpreter, and grab a
tutorial (http://python.org/doc/Intros.html is a good starting point)
and play around with it. You'll see soon enough if you like it.

gl & hf

-- Gerhard


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 11 06:44:32 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:44:32 +0200
Subject: String replace with return value?
References: <8Fsad.11445$nj.10631@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<Xns957F7501AB37Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <ckdo6g$fvd$1@sea.gmane.org>

Duncan Booth wrote:

>> How can I do a "".replace operation which tells me if anything was
>> actually replaced?
>> Right now I am doing something like:
>>
>> if searchTerm in text:
>>      text = text.replace( searchTerm, 'other' )
>
> Try:
>
> newtext = oldtext.replace(searchTerm, 'other')
> if newtext is oldtext:
>    print "nothing changed"
> else:
>    print "modified text"
>
> You can almost certainly get away with using 'is' here since if replace
> doesn't replace anything it simply returns the original string

depends on how you define "if anything was actually replaced", of course:

>>> mytext = "hello"

>>> mytext is mytext.replace("l", "l")
False
>>> mytext == mytext.replace("l", "l")
True

>>> mytext is mytext.replace("x", "x")
True
>>> mytext == mytext.replace("x", "x")
True

</F> 





From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 27 07:58:18 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:58:18 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410261928.42db1cd4@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com><_aadnTCr7PWKYeHcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>	<940ee3e8.0410251927.38347d92@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5480.1098763791.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<940ee3e8.0410261928.42db1cd4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <q8Mfd.1$uN3.0@lakeread04>

kartik wrote:

> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.5480.1098763791.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>"kartik" <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
>>news:940ee3e8.0410251927.38347d92 at posting.google.com...
>>
>>>1)catching overflow bugs in the language itself frees u from writing
>>>overflow tests.
>>
>>It is a fundamental characteristic of counts and integers that adding 1 is 
>>always valid.  Given that, raising an overflow exception is itself a bug, 
>>one that Python had and has now eliminated.
>>
>>If one wishes to work with residue classes mod n, +1 is also still always 
>>valid.  It is just that (n-1) + 1 is 0 instead of n.  So again, raising an 
>>overflow error is a bug.
> 
> 
> i don't care what mathematical properties are satisfied; what matters
> is to what extent the type system helps me in writing bug-free code
> 
... and the point most of your respondents are trying to make is that an 
arbitrary restriction - ANY arbitrary restriction - on the upper limit 
of integers is unhelpful, and that's precisely why it's been removed 
from the language.

> 
>>[...]However, the limit n could be 
>>anything, so fixing it at, say, 2**31 - 1 is almost always useless.
> 
> 
> i dont think so. if it catches bugs that cause numbers to increase
> beyond 2**31, that's valuable.
> 
But only if an increase beyond 2**31 IS a bug, which for many problem 
domains it isn't. Usually the required upper limit is either above or 
below 2**31, which is why that limit (or 2**63, or 2**7) is useless and 
unhelpful.

>>The use of fixed range ints is a space-time machine performance hack that 
>>has been costly in human thought time.
> 
> 
> on what basis do u say that
> 
A few more years' programming experience will teach you the truth of 
this assertion. It appears that no amount of good advice will change 
your opinion in the meantime.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Oct  6 21:44:17 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:44:17 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <10m8sc4oud9h4e3@corp.supernews.com>
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<10m8hf0rkv5m000@corp.supernews.com>
	<2sj4u9F1keh1uU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<10m8sc4oud9h4e3@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <iuqdnbKjNa7tAvncRVn-pQ@powergate.ca>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> Daniel Ellison wrote:
>> "Oh, the humanity!" is a direct quote from the radio host covering the 
>> arrival (and subsequent demise) of the Hindenburg at New Jersey's 
>> Lakehurst Naval Air Station in 1937.  

> ... At least now I know where it came from, and that it's not 
> (necessarily) just an ignorantly-parroted misspeaking.  (Though I do 
> still find myself wondering how many users of the phrase realize that it 
> *is* a misspeaking, nevermind how understandable given the 
> circumstances...)

Actually, I don't believe it was a mis-speaking, though I've heard
that that broadcaster was later chastised for what was considered
his unprofessional breakdown at the time.  "Humanity" has several
meanings, the second of which (here looking at Webster's via dict.org)
refers to "mankind collectively".  Said radio host was actually
moved to cry out at the loss of life, the humanity, that he was
witnessing.  Or so I've always assumed...

-Peter


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 18:25:23 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:25:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5321.1098456297.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u45bhF263o38U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5430.1098718895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u74k3F277sd4U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041027T001359-687@post.gmane.org>

Oliver Fromme <olli <at> haluter.fromme.com> writes:

> 
> Steven Bethard <steven.bethard <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>  > I'm not clear from your description (maybe you could show an example or 
>  > two?) but I gather you could either be talking about union typing, where at 
>  > compile time a variable is declared as, e.g. (list OR int), or parametric 
>  > polymorphism, where a variable's type is parameterized by another type, 
>  > e.g. list<type>.  In either of these cases, I would typically still call it 
>  > static typing because the possible types are still resolved at compile 
>  > time.  (The first will be handled much like a C union, and the second will 
>  > typically be stored as a list of objects, with some run-time checking of 
>  > type inserted, as in Java 1.5.)
> 
> Neither.
[bigsnip]
> The type inferred for sort, 'a list -> 'a list, means that
> sort can actually apply to lists of any type, and returns a
> list of the same type.  The type 'a is a type variable, and
> stands for any given type.

This is called parametric polymorphism, and was the second of my suggested
interpretations of your statement.

In parametric polymorphism, a variable's type is parameterized by another type.
 In your example, the list type is parameterized by another type.  In fact,
OCaml's 'a list translates directly into Java's List<T>.  Since in Java, not all
types are comparable, a similar sort function would have parameter and return
types of List<T implements Comparable>.  Of course, Java lacks type inference,
so the programmer has to declare this type manually, but in either case, the
type is checked at compile time, and as you suggest, comparisons between
uncomparable types would be raised as a compile time error.  Such parametric
polymorphism exists only in statically typed languages because it depends on
type declarations (or inferences).

Steve



From erik at heneryd.com  Sun Oct 31 04:02:49 2004
From: erik at heneryd.com (Erik Heneryd)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:02:49 +0100
Subject: spell checking
In-Reply-To: <4184A33C.8010903@kzoo.edu>
References: <4184A33C.8010903@kzoo.edu>
Message-ID: <4184AA39.3090008@heneryd.com>

dataangel wrote:

> I was just curious if there were any spell checker python modules around 
> that can guess at what the user meant to type in. I wrote up a quick 
> function that splices a string up into bigrams and then checks how many 
> bigrams are identical to a given word, which I think is how google does 
> it. But support for trigrams etc. could be added, so I'm curious if 
> anyone out there has done something more. Here's the script:

One tip is Levenshtein distance.  Some pointers:

http://www.merriampark.com/ld.htm
http://www.hetland.org/python/distance.py
http://trific.ath.cx/resources/python/levenshtein/


Erik



From aisaac at american.edu  Mon Oct 25 10:29:24 2004
From: aisaac at american.edu (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:29:24 -0400
Subject: Pythonic function composition
Message-ID: <10nq3c4j3lst8e2@corp.supernews.com>

Given a list of functions, it seems there must be a
Pythonic approach to composition.  Something like

def compose(fns): return lambda x: reduce(lambda f,g: f(g),fns)(x)

This will not work because the argument 'x' is not "inside".
What is the proper formulation?

Thanks,
Alan Isaac




From torsten.marek at student.uni-tuebingen.de  Sat Oct  2 13:19:29 2004
From: torsten.marek at student.uni-tuebingen.de (Torsten Marek)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:19:29 +0200
Subject: emacs python-mode bug #1021885
In-Reply-To: <cjf1lj$f66$1@lucy.ping.de>
References: <cj8ggc$ihq$1@rzcomm2.rz.tu-bs.de> <cjf1lj$f66$1@lucy.ping.de>
Message-ID: <cjmnv2$9kl$1@newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>

kaba schrieb:
> Marcio Rosa da Silva wrote:
> 
>> Hi!
>>
>> I am having some problem with python-emacs mode. I found a bug related 
>> to it at sf.net:
>>
>> bug #1021885 shell gets set to 'cpython':
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=86916&atid=581349&func=detail&aid=1021885 
>>
>>
>> The problem is that when I try to run the script using C-c C-c, I get 
>> the following message:
>>
>> "Wrong type argument: sequencep, cpython"
>>
>> My question is if there is anyone that found a workaround to this 
>> problem?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Marcio
> 
> 
> Hi Marcio,
> the bug is in 'py-execute-region'
> the patch below should fix it.
> 
> ***************
> *** 1679,1686 ****
>       (insert-buffer-substring cur start end)
>       ;; Set the shell either to the #! line command, or to the
>       ;; py-which-shell buffer local variable.
> !     (setq shell (or (py-choose-shell-by-shebang)
> !             (py-choose-shell-by-import)
>               py-which-shell))))
>       (cond
>        ;; always run the code in its own asynchronous subprocess
> --- 1679,1686 ----
>       (insert-buffer-substring cur start end)
>       ;; Set the shell either to the #! line command, or to the
>       ;; py-which-shell buffer local variable.
> !     (setq shell (or (car (rassoc (quote (py-choose-shell-by-shebang)) 
> py-shell-alist))
> !             (car (rassoc (quote (py-choose-shell-by-import)) 
> py-shell-alist))
>               py-which-shell))))
>       (cond
>        ;; always run the code in its own asynchronous subprocess
> 
Thank you very much!

greetings

Torsten


From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Oct  4 13:41:57 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:41:57 GMT
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
In-Reply-To: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
References: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <FXf8d.2597$M05.1234@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Russell Nelson wrote:
 > "Mandis quotes".

Trying it out ...

'Dave said 'Let's go to Bill's house and shoot a round of
pool.  Afterwards we'll watch a movie.  'Ere long 'twould
be 'ardly fittin' 'Dave said'

'quote
'When will we three three meet again?

'quote
'

'quote
'You see I had a spacesuit.  How it happened was
  this way.

'quote
'


The latter one will be tricky because the spaces.  I
mixed "quote  \n", "quote \n", "quote \n" and "quote \n"
in the above, so that there's one string with the quotes
from Shakespeare and Heinlein rather than two.

Were this implemented I would suggest that whitespace
characters not be allowed, or at least be prohibited
from the terminal points of the Manis quote indicators.

> More formally, a mandis quote is a pair of tokens surrounding a
> completely arbitrary sequence of bytes.  These tokens are comprised of
> a possibly null sequence of characters preceded by and followed by a
> single quote.

I was going to say it precludes reading in a huge block
of bytes (>1GB in size) and quoting it because you'll need
to buffer everything in memory.  Then I remembered string
concatenation.  Process 1MB at a time.


> To save time, here's why this pre-PEP proposal sucks in decreasing
> order of severity:
> 
> o Python source is typically represented, not as an arbitrary string
>   of ASCII or Unicode characters, but instead as a sequence of lines
>   separated by the native line terminator (e.g. CRLF, LF, or CR).
> 
> o Editors are not all up to the task of inserting arbitrary
>   characters into strings (although they SHOULD).

One thought is that the actual quote identifier doesn't need
to be shown.  To start the quote, press '.  The computer
inserts '' and puts the cursor so the next character is
in between the two quotes.  Everything between those two
characters is treated as a string.  To stop the quote,
right arrow past the final quote or, in THE/HUMANE style,
LEAP to it.

When the text is saved, the editor is free to use an
arbitrarily created Mandis quote delimiter.

> o Email cannot withstand arbitrary strings of characters (although
>   quoted-printable suffices)7.

But doesn't that mean email can "withstand arbitrary strings
of characters"?

> o Some distinct Unicode characters are represented using the same
>   glyph, so that information is lost when text gets printed (but
>   that's more of a Unicode stupidism.)

When working with byte oriented data it's very helpful
to be able to see a text representation for non-printable
data.  For example, seeing "\r\n" instead of "
" (actually, that's only a "\n").  Similarly there are
non-visible unicode characters, including
   5760 OGHAM SPACE MARK
   8192 EN QUAD
   8193 EM QUAD
   8194 EN SPACE
   8195 EM SPACE
   8196 THREE-PER-EM SPACE
   8197 FOUR-PER-EM SPACE
   8198 SIX-PER-EM SPACE
   8199 FIGURE SPACE
   8200 PUNCTUATION SPACE
   8201 THIN SPACE
   8202 HAIR SPACE
   8203 ZERO WIDTH SPACE


I would like to be able to see exactly what I've got.
For example, here's something I could do with Python
as it is now

   if u"\N{EN QUAD}" in s:
     print "Has an 'en quad'"

How would I do that with Mandis quotes?  Would it
use editor support to show special characters vs.
normal ones?  How?


Any binary data can be inside the quote.  When does the
program know that that binary data is a representation
of unicode characters?  Not all binary data is valid
Unicode, and there are many possible encodings.  Or
would there still be an indicator like

   s'This is a character string'
   b'This is a byte string'

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From daniel at syrinx.net  Tue Oct 12 08:51:41 2004
From: daniel at syrinx.net (Daniel Ellison)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:51:41 -0400
Subject: Test: please ignore
In-Reply-To: <416BCD9B.ACC1722@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
References: <416BCD9B.ACC1722@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
Message-ID: <2t224oF1q15srU2@uni-berlin.de>

denis wendum wrote:

> Checking if connection works. Seems OK.
> 

Why pick on us? There's a perfectly good test newsgroup for just this 
purpose.

Dan


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Oct 17 05:26:27 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:26:27 GMT
Subject: Efficient String Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <pnocd.3098$bV5.2652@trndny07>
References: <dB5cd.387$B34.355@trndny02> <ckr3j8$9fq$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<XNgcd.1933$B34.419@trndny02>
	<5Ikcd.5517$6k2.1064@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<pnocd.3098$bV5.2652@trndny07>
Message-ID: <7Vqcd.5704$6k2.2645@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Chris S. wrote:
> Actually, I've noticed some strange behavior. It seems to match more 
> than one character per wild card. For instance, your code matches 
> 'abaxile', 'abaze', and 'abbacomes' to the pattern 'ab##'. I'm not an 
> expert with rex, but your expression looks correct. What could be 
> causing this?

It's matching the prefix.  To make it match the string and
only the string you need a $.  Either do

   (pat1$)|(pat2$)| ... |(patN$)

or do

   ((pat1)|(pat2)| ... |(patN))$

If you do the last, don't forget to omit group(1) in
the list of results, or use the non-capturing group
notation, which I believe is (?:  ... ) as in

   (?:(pat1)|(pat2)| ... |(patN))$

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From wangjc101 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 13 18:45:35 2004
From: wangjc101 at yahoo.com (Jhy-Chun Wang)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:45:35 -0700
Subject: passing uint64_t between python and c++
Message-ID: <ckkb6g$gdn$1@news1nwk.SFbay.Sun.COM>

Hi,

I have a c++ extension that does thing like:

extern "C"
static PyObject *
nasUtil_access_cmd(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    uint64_t paddr;
    uint64_t data;


    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, (char*)"LL", &paddr, &data)) {
	return NULL;
    }
    ...
}

When I pass in a value larger than 0x7fffffff-ffffffffL from python
side, I always get "OverflowError: long too big to convert". I tried
using "int64_t paddr; int64_t data;", got the same error. How do I get
around this? I am using 32bit python 2.3.3 on Solaris 9.

Any help is very appreciated.

Thanks,

Jhychun



From ville at spammers.com  Wed Oct 13 06:00:26 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 13:00:26 +0300
Subject: Some notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4796.1097630951.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<5c882bb5.0410130130.590ad422@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7hdoz9but.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "bearophile" == bearophile  <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> writes:


    >> (I can't believe I am replying to someone with the email
    >> address bearophile 'bearophile')

    bearophile> I am learning, like everybody else.

He probably just thought that your email address is amusing. Which it
is, it the internetish neo-juvenile fashion. Laughing at such a name
is probably not the most mature thing to do, but some of us just can't
help it...

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Oct 19 17:16:26 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:16:26 -0400
Subject: Invalid port number in request for  secure site web page
References: <mailman.5187.1098210945.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnkbreyflxx.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

"jfdutcher1958" <jfdutcher1958 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Python returns this message:
>
> InvalidURL: nonnumeric port: '//www.a2webhosting.com:2083/frontend/x2'
>
> in reponse to the call below ....but the port number looks 
> numeric  ???
>
> ***************************************************************
> import sys, httplib
> showlines = 56
> try:
>     servername, filename = sys.argv[1:]           # cmdline args?
> except:
>     servername, filename 
> = 'https://www.a2webhosting.com:2083/frontend/x2', '/index.html'
>     
> print servername, filename

You've forgotten a line (the one which throws the error you've given).
But, I believe your problem is 'https://www....' is parsed as a
server:port pair: the server is https, and the port is //www..., which
of course is invalid.

I presume you're doing httplib.HTTPConnection(servername) (or
HTTPSConnection). You can't use a URL there. Usage from the docs is
like this:
>>> h1 = httplib.HTTPConnection('www.cwi.nl')
>>> h2 = httplib.HTTPConnection('www.cwi.nl:80')
>>> h3 = httplib.HTTPConnection('www.cwi.nl', 80)

Depending on what you're doing, you might be better off using the
urllib or urllib2 modules.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From jfdutcher1958 at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 14:50:22 2004
From: jfdutcher1958 at yahoo.com (John Dutcher)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:50:22 -0500
Subject: Using interactive Python for HTTPS dialog with server
Message-ID: <10n5c5rl9oo6n76@corp.supernews.com>

Would the knowledgeable folks among you say I should
have no great difficulty writing a script in Python that can
simulate having an operator at a desktop keying and
sending transactions to an HTTPS connection and receving responses. The
script would read a file of data
containing info that would otherwise have been keyed
by an operator,  and be expected to respond to any returning approval or
error codes after sending the original
data via a secure connection, as though it had been done
in a web page ?





From export at hope.cz  Thu Oct 14 06:48:27 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 03:48:27 -0700
Subject: os.system and flow control
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410140248.612d2ed9@posting.google.com>

In my program I use 
os.popen2('notepad.exe IDPass.txt')
to open IDPass.txt file in Notepad window. Users can edit this file
but the problem is that if the program runs on Windows 98  , the
program does not wait for closing of Notepad window but continues
running with the next command after
os.popen2('notepad.exe IDPass.txt').
If the program runs on XP, the execution of my program is paused until
I close the notepad window.
How shall I force the WIndows 98 to pause the execution like WIndows
Xp ?
Thanks for help
Lad


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct  9 23:33:25 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 03:33:25 GMT
Subject: Init a table of functions
In-Reply-To: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>
Message-ID: <942ad.836$Bw1.213@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Paulo da Silva wrote:
> class foo:
>     def f1():
>         print "f1"
>     f1=staticmethod(f1)
   ...
>     K={"f1" : foo.f1, \
>        "f1" : foo.f2  \
>     }

The name 'foo' doesn't exist as a global variable
until after the class definition has been fully
executed.  To make what you want work do


class foo:
     def f1():
         print "f1"
     f1=staticmethod(f1)

     def f2():
         print "f2"
     f2 = staticmethod(f2)

     K={"f1" : f1,
        "f2" : f2,
     }

This works because the class definition creates
its own scope, and 'f1' and 'f2' are valid variables
in that scope.

NOTE: I removed the unneeded "\" characters for
stylistic reasons.  If there's a "{" (or "(" or "[")
then the interpreter doesn't assume that a newline
means the end of the statement until after the
closing character.

The only time it's really needed is for the print
statement.  In almost every other case you should
use some sort of parenthesis, brackets, etc.  For
example, instead of

a = this_is_a_very_long_variable_name + \
      and_here_is_another_long_name

you should use


a = (this_is_a_very_long_variable_name +
      and_here_is_another_long_name)

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Oct 30 05:11:38 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 05:11:38 -0400
Subject: names of parameters as string
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com><41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com><3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com><m31xfh8uhy.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu><mailman.5663.1099065452.5135.python-list@python.org><291020042102228624%JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom@no.spam.net>
	<1CC54D90-2A40-11D9-A5B8-0003939C968C@unito.it>
Message-ID: <clvls2$bq5$1@sea.gmane.org>


"andrea valle" <andrea.valle at unito.it> wrote in message 
news:1CC54D90-2A40-11D9-A5B8-0003939C968C at unito.it...
>Suppose I have a string and I'd like to create a variable with its name.
>How can I do that?

globals['varname'] = 3

difficult or impossible for function locals

Terry J. Reedy





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 14 10:50:09 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:50:09 +0200
Subject: Strange exceptions in MySQLdb
References: <350f7230.0410131539.1cff6ec0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckm3iu$kpr$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hector Villafuerte wrote:

> I have been using Python 2.3.4 with MySQL 4.0.16-max-nt (through
> MySQLdb) for months. Today this messages showed up:
>
> Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no
> attribute 'close'" in <bound method Cursor.__del__ of
> <MySQLdb.cursors.Cursor instance at 0x0099C148>> ignored

this means that the Cursor destructor (the __del__ method) attempts to
call some global object during cleanup, but that object has already been
cleaned away.

for some more information on the cleanup procedure, see:

    http://www.python.org/doc/essays/cleanup.html

(this should be mentioned in the reference documentation somewhere,
but I only got through to python.org for long enough to dig up that link)

it's most likely a bug in the MySQLdb driver (objects using destructors
*should* keep references to any object needed by the destructor).  to
see if it's really harmless, you may want to check the source code: look
for "close" method calls in the Cursor destructor.

</F> 





From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct 29 09:39:06 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:39:06 +0100
Subject: saving local dir
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B79@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Peter Hansen]
| Bengt dePaulis wrote:
| > I just started on python.
| > 
| > I have c:\python23\examples\py
| > and want to include that in my sys.path
| > 
| > How to do it permanently?
| 
| In addition to Tim's suggestion, you can also use
| ".pth" files, as documented primarily in the comments
| at the top of c:\python23\lib\site.py.

Funnily enough, that's exactly the approach I myself
use here, and my preferred approach too; I just forgot 
completely about when it came to answering the question.

TJG

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From webdsine at yahoo.ca  Sat Oct 30 23:43:16 2004
From: webdsine at yahoo.ca (webdsine)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:43:16 -0000
Subject: Python and MySQL 4.1
Message-ID: <cm1n0k+6uco@eGroups.com>


Hello.  I just upgrade to MySQL 4.1 from 4.0, and I'm having trouble
retrieving text from the DB in the proper format using the MySQLdb
module in Python.  All text fields that are retrieved are in this
format:

array('c', 'Whatever is in the field')

The only data that's not displayed in that format are enum values, and
when I was still in v4.0 only 'Whatever is in the field' is
retrieved.  

Are there any quick fixes?  I've completed my Python application
already, so I don't really want to go in and mess with the source code
if I don't need to.

Thanks in advance.





From merman at snafu.de  Tue Oct 12 05:55:45 2004
From: merman at snafu.de (merman)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:55:45 +0200
Subject: py2exe
Message-ID: <416ba9da$0$9584$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Hi,

can I also use py2exe (T. Hellers tool) in a "generic" way?
In other words: can I made Perl-Executables too?

Thanks.

o-o

Thomas


From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Oct 20 03:43:34 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:43:34 GMT
Subject: module to ping a remote computer
In-Reply-To: <1098167660.152175@news-1.nethere.net>
References: <1098167660.152175@news-1.nethere.net>
Message-ID: <GGodd.2125$%h1.1344@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

anonymous wrote:
> Has anyone here created a module for pinging a remote computer via the ping
> command and displaying a green/red led light button on the local computer
> depending upon the response back?  This would be a very simple automatic
> monitor.

Years ago (1998) I wrote a Python wrapper to the command-line
ping program and had it play a sound.  Search the newsgroup
archives for "sndping".  Here's a Google link

 
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3636B963.2587200C%40bioreason.com&output=gplain


Uggh!  I mixed spaces and tabs back then.  :(

One problem about ping in the local process is that I believe
it requires root privs.  You should likely wrap the
command-line program instead, as I did.

This is exactly the sort of task 'expect' was created for.
You might look at that (it's a Tcl package) or one of the
Python equivalents.


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 12:12:25 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:12:25 -0200
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <2-idnfYPRs9d8-fcRVn-oA@powergate.ca>
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5357.1098540970.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jtidnZlHj6049OfcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5359.1098542166.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2-idnfYPRs9d8-fcRVn-oA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <864d37090410230912795a565e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:46:24 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> David Wilson wrote:
> > NAME
> >     ConfigParser - Configuration file parser.
> >
> > The 'config' object you refer to does not appear to be implemented by
> > the ConfigParser module.
> 
> Ah, there's the conflict.  For the simpler stuff I'm picturing,
> I don't have a *separate* parser which serves solely to
> read the file and return the information therein in a form
> that requires a different object to preserve and provide later
> access to it.  I bundle those babies together so, in my mind
> and despite seeing the name and reading your various comments
> repeatedly, it wasn't clear to me that we were implicitly (?)
> leaving out all other issues of configuration, leaving only
> the tiny parsing bit.

I agree with Peter -- that's the whole point of this discussion. The
question can be re-stated as, "do we need a configuration object or a
configuration parser object"? The former is able to read/write itself
from a text file (using INI, or other suitable format); the latter
only reads a INI file and parses it.

In my opinion, we don't have really to make a choice or a concession
here. A simple parser can be provided, using a simple interface as the
one defended by David; and a wrapper implementing the "configuration
object" can also be provided, using class-based access. Similar
examples of this layered approach already exist in the library. You
just build it upon the standard blocks available. Of course, (and with
all due respect) it does not address one David's arguments, that -- as
far as I understood it -- sees the extended attribute access syntax
for configuration objects as non-natural and therefore unwarranted in
Python. That's a valid opinion, and I'm not going to try to convince
anyone here about which way is better. But seeing these two issues as
separate things *is* a good step.


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 14:40:54 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:40:54 -0300
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
References: <55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>
	<4162CFCE.6040700@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041005114042d06490@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 14:11:24 -0400, Richard Blackwood
<richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
> A retired philosophy professor who taught himself programming when he
> was twelve.  I've been programming as a hobby since and was interested
> in Python a few years ago, played around with it, and didn't pick it
> back up until now.  What else you want to know?  I've got a cat, a dog,
> and a lovely, highly intelligent wife who teaches history.  No kids, and
> no plans to have any.

Kids. You should try it. When they come to you with a list of 45+
questions about the meaning of life, the universe and everything, then
you may be able to understand how did _we_ feel. :-)

(Excuse me -- you're a retired philosophy teacher, so these questions
must be easy for you. Sorry ;-).

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com  Fri Oct 22 08:11:25 2004
From: PPNTWIMBXFFC at spammotel.com (Marco Aschwanden)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:11:25 +0200
Subject: Installing Python on a fileserver
References: <mailman.5303.1098434586.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<claon2$2bi$1@news.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <opsf9thbmf35jo5o@news.gmane.org>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:51:13 +0200, Daniel Dittmar 
<daniel.dittmar at sap.corp> wrote:

Very helpful. Thanks a lot!

cheers,
Marco



From jerf at jerf.org  Fri Oct 22 13:25:58 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:25:58 GMT
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.22.13.24.50.634739@jerf.org>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:56:09 +0000, Steven Bethard wrote:
> You probably meant "static typing" throughout this email when you said "strong 
> typing".  Python *is* strongly typed -- you can tell the type of any object at 
> runtime.  Python is not statically typed -- any name can be bound to any type 
> of object, so nothing is checked at "compile time".

That's why I said "the kind of type safety that you are referring to" in
my message. It was not worth bringing up, in this context.


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 04:33:59 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 01:33:59 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<clkvab$1dc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<Z8ofd.2777$kM.174@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<940ee3e8.0410262345.4017fbd5@posting.google.com>
	<CgMfd.3$uN3.0@lakeread04>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410280033.4d75a167@posting.google.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<CgMfd.3$uN3.0 at lakeread04>...
> You're certainly not short on arrogance, though.

I didn't mean to (except in a couple of posts where I got a little
pissed off). Sorry for that.

-kartik


From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct  2 17:31:05 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 14:31:05 -0700
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.4166.1096612732.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9j6ul0db19k6rrmfjbs6kgjar0ldagfoji@4ax.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> 
>> IIRC from back when I was in school (long time ago), both forms are correct.
>> At least in Dutch. Strictly spoken it should be "a few is enough" or "a
>> number of people has died".
>
>Well that's Dutch for you. In English (as opposed to American, where 
>pretty much anything goes) "A number of people *have* died" is correct, 
>because the people died, not the number.

I was going to object to this statement.  I went to my good friend "Google"
to look up some references but "a number of" is very common and thus
difficult to search for.

However, on the web site for "The American Heritage Book of English Usage,"
I was reading the page on indefinite pronouns, looking for vindication,
when I came across this sentence:

  A number of usage problems involving personal pronouns are questions
  of which case to use in a given situation.

They don't explicitly give a rule, but it's clear that whoever wrote this
sentence (presumably a stern-faced librarian) agrees with you.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sun Oct 24 15:10:41 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:10:41 +0100
Subject: how do i change from string to list
In-Reply-To: <417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>
	<417bf196$0$771$3a628fcd@reader20.nntp.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <clgunn$dd9$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Ivo Woltring wrote:
> str='spot'
> 
> lst = [] # declare the list first
> for letter in str:
>     lst.append(letter) # append to the list
> 
> print lst

I just would have used list("spot").

> result: ['s', 'p', 'o', 't']

Same result but faster, more transparent, and with a lot less code.

Also, please don't top-post.
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Tue Oct  5 01:00:23 2004
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:00:23 -0700
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2004-09-01 through 2004-09-15
Message-ID: <41622A67.3040301@ocf.berkeley.edu>

python-dev Summary for 2004-09-01 through 2004-09-15
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ from September 
01, 2004 through September 15, 2004.  It is intended to inform the wider Python 
community of on-going developments on the list.  To comment on anything 
mentioned here, just post to `comp.lang.python`_ (or email 
python-list at python.org which is a gateway to the newsgroup) with a subject line 
mentioning what you are discussing. All python-dev members are interested in 
seeing ideas discussed by the community, so don't hesitate to take a stance on 
something.  And if all of this really interests you then get involved and join 
`python-dev`_!

This is the forty-eighth summary written by Brett Cannon (hopefully school 
won't drown my this quarter).

To contact me, please send email to brett at python.org ; I do not have the 
time to keep up on comp.lang.python and thus do not always catch follow-ups 
posted there.

All summaries are archived at http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ .

Please note that this summary is written using reStructuredText_ which can be 
found at http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html .  Any unfamiliar punctuation is 
probably markup for reST_ (otherwise it is probably regular expression syntax 
or a typo =); you can safely ignore it, although I suggest learning reST; it's 
simple and is accepted for `PEP markup`_ and gives some perks for the HTML 
output.  Also, because of the wonders of programs that like to reformat text, I 
cannot guarantee you will be able to run the text version of this summary 
through Docutils_ as-is unless it is from the `original text file`_.

.. _PEP Markup: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0012.html

The in-development version of the documentation for Python can be found at
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ and should be used when looking up any
documentation on new code; otherwise use the current documentation as found at
http://docs.python.org/ .  PEPs (Python Enhancement Proposals) are located at 
http://www.python.org/peps/ .  To view files in the Python CVS online, go to 
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/ .  Reported bugs and 
suggested patches can be found at the SourceForge_ project page.

The `Python Software Foundation`_ is the non-profit organization that holds the 
intellectual property for Python.  It also tries to forward the development and 
use of Python.  But the PSF_ cannot do this without donations.  You can make a 
donation at http://python.org/psf/donations.html .  Every penny helps so even a 
small donation (you can donate through PayPal or by check) helps.

.. _python-dev: http://www.python.org/dev/
.. _SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470
.. _python-dev mailing list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
.. _comp.lang.python: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python
.. _Docutils: http://docutils.sf.net/
.. _reST:
.. _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html
.. _PSF:
.. _Python Software Foundation: http://python.org/psf/

.. contents::

.. _last summary: http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-08-16_2004-08-31.html
.. _original text file: http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-09-01_2004-09-15.ht



=====================
Summary Announcements
=====================
Python 2.4a3 has been released.  Go to http://www.python.org/2.4/ and give it 
twirl.

Sorry for this summary being so short, but school has started back up again so 
I am in the middle of suddenly having to switch back into homework mode after 
spending the summer just having a 9:00-17:00 job.

And since it is a new school year I am going to abuse this space and say that 
anyone in San Luis Obispo, including students, should join the `SLO Meetup`_ 
coming up on October 14.

.. _SLO Meetup: http://python.meetup.com/95/

=========
Summaries
=========
--------------------
Movement in PEP Land
--------------------
`PEP 334`_ (Simple Coroutines via SuspendIteration) came into existence.

`PEP 328`_ (Relative Imports) got some discussion on postponing making imports 
absolute instead of the relative/absolute semantics they have now.  As it 
stands it looks like the changeover might get pushed off.

`PEP 292`_ (Simpler String Substitutions) seems to finally be done and locked down.

`PEP 335`_ (Overloadable Boolean Operators) came into existence.

.. _PEP 334: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0334.html
.. _PEP 328: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0328.html
.. _PEP 292: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0292.html
.. _PEP 335: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0335.html

Contributing threads:
   - `PEP 334 - Simple Coroutines via SuspendIteration 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/048679.html>`__
   - `PEP 328 - Relative Imports 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/048691.html>`__
   - `Re: Alternative Implementation for PEP 292:Simple String Substitutions 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/048577.html>`__
   - `ANN: PEP 335: Overloadable Boolean Operators 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/048791.html>`__

------------------------------------------------------
__str__, __unicode__, and how to have them play nicely
------------------------------------------------------
Did you know that __str__ methods are allowed to return Unicode objects?  Well, 
it turns out they can, but that str() (which calls PyObject_Str()) 
automatically tries to convert the value returned by __str__ into ASCII. 
Basically __str__ shouldn't return Unicode if you can help it and you should 
use __unicode__ instead and reserve __str__ to return str objects only.

Contributing threads:
   - unicode and __str__ (couldn't find in archives)

----------------------
Backporting C APIs bad
----------------------
Somebody (*cough* Guido *cough*) asked if the datetime C API could be 
backported to 2.3 .  The argument was that the only person who would probably 
use it is the person who asked for it, the author of cx_Oracle.

Well, pretty much everyone spoke up against this.  The argument went that 
adding an API would just be bad since there would suddenly be a point in the 
2.3 releases where backwards compatibility was broken.  People brought up the 
point of 2.2 where in 2.2.1 booleans were added and how that has caused 
compatibility headaches for some people.

In the end the API was not backported.

Contributing threads:
   - `Re: [Python-checkins] python/dist/src/Modules threadmodule.c, 2.56, 
2.56.8.1 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/048534.html>`__

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Got to love race conditions thanks to the filesystem and external apps
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Peters found a race condition one can have on Windows if you have an app 
that uses the low-level hooks into the filesystem.  If you create a file, 
delete it, and then try to delete the directory the directory deletion will 
fail since the file is not deleted yet.  What can happen is an indexing program 
can still be indexing the file before the filesystem is allowed to delete it 
and thus the directory is not truly empty when the directory deletion is 
executed.  Fun stuff.

Contributing threads:
   - `Coernic Desktop Search versus shutil.rmtree 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/048535.html>`__

-------------------------------
Python 2.4a3 is out the door!!!
-------------------------------
Go to http://www.python.org/2.4/ , download it (using the bz2 version if 
possible so as to save on bandwidth), and run it against your code, run the 
test suite, put it on your head and sell yourself to an art gallery, etc.

Contributing threads:
   - `RELEASED Python 2.4, alpha 3 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/048573.html>`__


----------------------------
Cleaning the Exception House
----------------------------
The idea of reorganizing the exceptions hierarchy came up again (see 
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2004-08-01_2004-08-15.html#an-exception-is-an-exception-unless-it-doesn-t-inherit-from-exception 
for a previous discussion on this).  This time, the idea of separating the 
hierarchy into exceptions one would like to catch with a bare 'except' and 
those that you wouldn't was brought up.

The idea is that some exceptions, such as MemoryError, one does not want to 
catch in a blanket statement usually.  Chances of recovering from that kind of 
exception is low and should only be caught if you know what you are doing.  So 
tweaking the exception hierarchy so that exceptions that were not 
near-catastrophic could inherit from an exception class that people could catch 
so as to allow the proper exceptions to propagate to the top-level without issue.

Tim Peters even went as far as to suggest deprecating bare 'except' statements. 
  This would force people to be explicit about what they want to catch, whether 
it be all "safe" exceptions or *all* exceptions.

As it stands now no officially decision has been made for Python 3000 since 
that is about the only place this could happen.

Contributing threads:
   - `Dangerous exceptions 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/048609.html>`__

---------------------------------------------------------------
Making decorators not look like decorators to the outside world
---------------------------------------------------------------
Raymond Hettinger pointed out that a decorator does not, by default, look like 
the function that it is fiddling with (if that is the intent).  Since most 
decorators will most likely be a wrapper function some things need to be set in 
the wrapper in order not to mask things in the wrapped function (doc string, 
argument parameters, etc.).

So Raymond pointed out some things one can do.  This also led to the suggestion 
of having a common name used to store a reference back to the wrapped function. 
  There was also the mention that a decorator-oriented module in the stdlib 
will probably materialize in Python 2.5 .  For now, though, stick recipes 
either in the Python Cookbook or in the Python wiki at 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonDecoratorLibrary .

Contributing threads:
   - `decorator support 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-September/048610.html>`__

===============
Skipped Threads
===============
- random.py still broken wrt. urandom
- random.py fixage
- Re: [Python-checkins] python/dist/src/Lib/test test_compiler.py, 1.5, 1.6 
test_decimal.py, 1.13, 1.14
- assert failure on obmalloc
- Re: [Python-checkins] python/dist/src/Modules socketmodule.c, 1.304, 1.305
- Install-on-first-use vs. optional extensions
- Console vs. GUI applications
- Adding status code constants to httplib
- PEP 292: method names
- PEP 265 - Sorting dicts by value
- httplib is not v6 compatible, is this going to be fixed?
- OT: Unicode history
- --with-tsc compile fails
- tempfile.TemporaryFile on Windows NT
- PyExc_UnicodeDecodeError
- urllib.urlopen() vs IDNs, percent-encoded hosts, ':'
- tabs in httplib.py and test_httplib.py
       There is now a vimrc file in the Misc directory that sets things up to 
follow PEPs 7 & 8
- strawman decision: @decorator won't change
- unicode inconsistency?


From ville at spammers.com  Fri Oct 15 08:11:11 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 15:11:11 +0300
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416d2af0.154298900@news.oz.net>
	<m3brf5z71z.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
	<mailman.4957.1097770559.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410142037.3703195c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <du7lle86v1c.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Michele" == Michele Simionato <michele.simionato at gmail.com> writes:

    Michele> Using a "metafunction" is a kind of abuse,
    Michele> yes. Nevertheless, I used this trick to resolve the
    Michele> metaclass conflict:

    Michele> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/204197c

Broken link, I guess you meant:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/204197

I don't think the term "metafunction" is applicable, because calling
it doesn't return a function, and everything that returns a callable
object is at some level a metafunction (at least in the sense
metaclass is a metaclass).

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From miodio67 at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 24 14:05:28 2004
From: miodio67 at hotmail.com (john)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 11:05:28 -0700
Subject: how do i change from string to list
Message-ID: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>

I have the following 

s = "spot" 

which I would like to change to a list

l = ['s','p','o','t']

I have tried  l = eval(s) but I get the error 

File "<string>", line 1, in ?
NameError: spot

thank you all for your time


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct  8 04:47:48 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 01:47:48 -0700
Subject: Connecting to SQL-Server
References: <mailman.4525.1097175246.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8360efcd.0410080047.fc956c0@posting.google.com>

[Greg Lindstrom]
> I'm running Python 2.3 on a Windows XP box and am trying to get connected to
> an MS SQL-Server.  I have found (seemingly) conflicting methods to connect
> using the odbc module in the win32-all extensions.  I have seen both of the
> following:
> 
> db = odbc.odbc('DSN/UID/PASSWORD)
> and
> db=odbc.odbc('DSN=dsn;UID=uid;PWD=password)

[... snip description of problem solved by other people ...]

I know I'm coming late to this particular party now that 
others have solved the particular problem. But I wanted to
offer a couple of things. One is this page (just in case you
hadn't come across it):

http://www.able-consulting.com/ADO_Conn.htm

I come back here every time I have a problem with an
ODBC connection string.

On the back of that, I almost always use a DSN-less
connection something like this:

<code>
import odbc

dsn = [
  "Driver={SQL Server}", 
  "Server=VODEV1", 
  "Database=EVOTEST",
  "UID=evoreader",
  "Pwd=***"
]

db = odbc.odbc (";".join (dsn))
</code>

or, for trusted connections:

<code>
import odbc

trusted_dsn = [
  "Driver={SQL Server}", 
  "Server=VODEV1", 
  "Database=EVOTEST", 
  "Trusted_Connection=yes"
]

db = odbc.odbc (";".join (trusted_dsn))
</code>

Obviously the server / database etc. can be variables
pulled from a configuration file etc. This way, I
don't have to set up a system/user-dsn on each computer
I run on.

TJG


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 30 22:45:08 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:45:08 -0400
Subject: OT: Ruby programmers use Python (was Re: ruby on rails ... python
 on ?)
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
References: <pan.2004.10.31.01.55.39.405035@large.net>
Message-ID: <sqednYEeQbsozBncRVn-ug@powergate.ca>

flab ba wrote:
> The pragmatic programmers (Dave & Andy) are spreading a good word about
> RubyOnRails. I was wondering if there are any Python programmers who are
> /also/ familiar with Rails - and if they could recommend something in the
> Python world that is comparable.

I googled for that to learn about it.  Saw a note in the home page
of rubyonrails.org from Oct 11 about them having a new bug tracker
working!

"Cool," sez I, a fan of issue trackers in general, "Let's see
what these Ruby guys have come up with for a bug tracker."

It's Trac.

Which is implemented in Python. ;-)

I guess that justifies the term "pragmatic" above, anyway.

(I haven't yet learned much about Rails, unfortunately, since
the web site is excrutiatingly slow right now.  Maybe it will
be faster another time...)

To the OP: there are several Python "application frameworks"
which on the surface appear to be similar in goal to Rails.
I don't know much about them, and at the moment even their
names aren't coming to me, so I can't help more than that.
I think a search for "enterprise application framework Python"
would probably turn up at least one of them.

-Peter


From robby at planetargon.com  Thu Oct 21 01:21:00 2004
From: robby at planetargon.com (Robby Russell)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:21:00 -0700
Subject: WxHTML
In-Reply-To: <20041021003804.16183.00000900@mb-m01.aol.com>
References: <20041021003804.16183.00000900@mb-m01.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1098336060.6256.26.camel@vacant>

On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 04:38 +0000, LutherRevisited wrote:
> I have a quick question, I've noticed that some pages display with unusual gaps
> in them in a wxHTML window, and these pages don't contain anything unusual
> javascript....etc.  Is the WxIEWINDOW or whatever it's called better for this? 
> Or is there something I can do to stop this from happening.  I've copied the
> html code and ran it in Mozilla and IE and it shows fine.  I know that there
> are limitations in what wxhtml can do, so is this just something I have to
> accept when using it?

Have you considered wxMozilla?

www.wxmozilla.org


-Robby

-- 
/***************************************
* Robby Russell | Owner.Developer.Geek
* PLANET ARGON  | www.planetargon.com
* Portland, OR  | robby at planetargon.com
* 503.351.4730  | blog.planetargon.com
* PHP/PostgreSQL Hosting & Development
****************************************/

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From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct 19 17:45:55 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:45:55 -0400
Subject: Free hosting for Python open-source projects
In-Reply-To: <864d370904101914067b7a1728@mail.gmail.com>
References: <864d370904101914067b7a1728@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41758B13.3020301@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>I know that some companies offer hosting space for open source
>projects, often with reasonable limitations. The main problem in my
>case is _stability_ and the _mailing list_. Unfortunately, my own
>experience with sourceforge lists, over recent times, is somewhat
>problematic, so I would like to find a good host for low volume lists,
>with responsive mailing performance.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>  
>
Why do you require a mailing-list as part of the same service?


From alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com  Sun Oct  3 00:00:30 2004
From: alikakakhel3 at hotmail.com (Ali)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 21:00:30 -0700
Subject: How do you write this in python
Message-ID: <8f17f4bc.0410022000.e331cbe@posting.google.com>

I have the following webpage with a javasctript in it:

<html>
<head>
<title>Custom Objects Test</title>
<script language="javascript">
function PrintCard() {
line1 = "<hr>\n";
line2 = "<b>Name: </b>" + this.name + "<br>\n";
line3 = "<b>Email: </b>" + this.email + "<br>\n";
document.write(line1, line2, line3);
}
function Card(name,email) {
	this.name = name;
	this.email = email;
	this.PrintCard = PrintCard;
}
</script>
</head>
<body>
<script language="javascript">
ali = new Card("Ali", "alik at alik.com");
zainab = new Card("Zainab", "zainab at zainab.com");

ali.PrintCard();
zainab.PrintCard();
</script>
</body>
</html>

The script in this page, has a function (Card) that is used to create
an object with its own properties and methods (ali and zainab in this
script). I was wondering if this was possible in python.

If you have questions plz dont hesitate to ask. Please Help. Thank you
:)


From chain_lube at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 11 04:59:29 2004
From: chain_lube at hotmail.com (chain_lube at hotmail.com)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 01:59:29 -0700
Subject: DISLIN or gnuplot.py
References: <pan.2004.10.10.20.50.39.807116@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <f7afbb21.0410110059.46dbc15b@posting.google.com>

Richard <none at pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.10.20.50.39.807116 at pacbell.net>...
> I am going to need to plot some data and formula results from Python.  A
> few years ago I used gnuplot (not from Python) and was wondering which
> Python plotting module I should use (learn)?
> 
> I have seen DISLIN mentioned on "onlamp.com" and see that gnuplot has a
> python module wrapper.
> 
> Any suggestions on Python plotting modules? (DISLIN or gnuplot.py or ????)

You should use the tool you prefer.

Personally I would use DISLIN over gnuplot any time. Heck, I would
(and I do) use Scheme (my DISLIN binding to Bigloo) over Python any
time.

You did not unveil in which circumstances you are going to use you
plots. If it is important for you: I use my created plots under
Bigloo/DISLIN in my papers for publication.

Fensterbrett


From alberto.mantovaniNOSPAM at bologna.marelli.it  Mon Oct 18 12:12:50 2004
From: alberto.mantovaniNOSPAM at bologna.marelli.it (Alberto)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:12:50 GMT
Subject: Load data from Matlab 6.5
Message-ID: <4173eac3.32069914@news.marelli.it>

Hi,
with scipy is possible to load data from .mat file generated by MATLAB
vs.5.0 but not later version as MATLAB 6.5. Are there something useful
to do that?
thanks
Alberto


From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Sun Oct 17 10:26:28 2004
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:26:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Message from exception raised in generator disappears
References: <200410162322.i9GNMvhM043628@chilled.skew.org>
	<mailman.5068.1097978932.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cktvek$9bq$1@news.island.liu.se>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:

> >>> def gx():
> ...     yield 1
> ...     raise RuntimeError
> ... 
> >>> list(gx())
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<stdin>", line 3, in gx
> RuntimeError

> Exceptions in generators work for me.  Maybe there's another problem
> with your code.

However:

    >>> def gx():
    ...     yield "1"
    ...     raise TypeError("SPAM SPAM SPAM!")
    ...
    >>> " ".join(gx())
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    TypeError: sequence expected, generator found

Bug 905389 at the SourceForge bugtracker.


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"God is real, but Jesus is an integer."      !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
                                             !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!



From francesco.grillo at ciaolab.com  Wed Oct 13 10:59:03 2004
From: francesco.grillo at ciaolab.com (francesco.grillo at ciaolab.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:59:03 +0200
Subject: help tcl problem
Message-ID: <40F9D5CC00003B71@FE-mail04.sfg.albacom.net>

Hi to all ,
i have a blocking pb .
I use python 2.3 with tk/tcl 8.4.7 under windows2000;i wrote an application
that in the begining
under window systems was very instable , frequently crashed now and then
without a reason .
I found out that recompiling the tcl / tk libraries with "TCL_THREADS=1"
flag
these instability went away . Unfortunatelly there is a side effect that
is :
Memory allocation grow each time a call to tk is done .
Since my application heavly use tk and is supposed to stay on days and days
without shuting down , what it happens is that, after a while the memory
used by
applications is increased by Megas .
Below i wrote a very simple .py that demostrates how is easy to grab memory
from the system just calling the bell method in an infinite loop .

Thank for the help , Francesco Grillo




from Tkinter import *
import threading
import time
import gc
import os

class Ticker:
    def __init__(self):
        self.l = Label(text="W")

        print 'init '
    def start(self):
        self.thread = threading.Thread(target=self.tickerThread)
        self.thread.start()

    def tickerThread(self):
        while(1):
            self.l.bell()

root = Tk()
root.geometry("200x150+0+0")
ticker1 = Ticker()
ticker1.start()
root.mainloop()




From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 22 11:47:14 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:47:14 -0700
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <1098460034.4596.1.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 14:46 +0200, Max M wrote:
> Cliff Wells wrote:
> 
> > PHP has some excellent libraries for web development.  In many ways this
> > makes up for the shortcomings in the language itself, since you can
> > quite often keep actual programming to a minumum.  I've seen nothing in
> > the Python world that compares to Smarty templates (and yes, I've
> > reviewed the many Python templating engines available.  To date I've
> > seen none that approach Smarty in actual
> > usability/readability/simplicity).
> 
> 
> Have you tried PageTemplates from Zope?
> 
> They are very clever, and the macros makes it much better at reusing 
> code than anything I have seen elsewhere.

Can they be used outside of Zope?  One of my criteria was usability
<wink>

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Oct 24 15:12:20 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 12:12:20 -0700
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>	<417A3F3C.2030703@botanicus.net>
	<mailman.5369.1098558392.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410241112.650b7794@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.5369.1098558392.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> I wrote my Configuration class (note the new name!) based upon my needs
> (which are based on my recent experience):
> 
>     * I prefer attribute-style or dict-style access
>     * I need more than one level of sections
>     * YAML and XML are too complex
>     * I want it to be readable and editable by humans
> 

+1

Vinay Sajip


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 28 07:38:55 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:38:55 +0200
Subject: Looking for more Cookbook contributors
References: <0kavn019dk6vf7ini32t3muc9e6r9j7t1n@4ax.com>
	<mailman.5575.1098897039.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmdbxx.o57i68hu9achN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
   ...
> 1. list the invalid (bouncing) email address you have, if any.

Not sure about the ones Jonathan listed, but I believe they aren't
bouncing, in general: they're simply not receiving our mails, or not
responding to them.  Maybe spamfilters somewhere... it seems
inconsiderate to list a mail address for somebody who has not explicitly
"published" that address, and attract spam to that address thereby,
though.

> 2. try Googling both the web and newsgroups if you have not.

Dunno if Jonathan has, but I have -- and for anybody recently posting
with different addresses from the one(s) they gave when posting to the
ActiveState site, we've tried it all.  With some limited successes.  But
with several remaining failures, and the names Jonathan listed are such
failures (for the first few chapters -- we have many more to come...).

> For instance 'Sebastien Keim', first web hit, has s.keim at laposte.net on a
> page generated a month ago.  Is that the invalid address you have or 
> something newer maybe?

It's that one.  It's not invalid: we don't see bounces.  Our mails are
just getting ignored -- that's all we know.

If somebody puts their email addresses on the web and newsgroups,
they're probably getting thousands of spam messages a day, so either
they don't read that mailbox or have strong spamfilters on it -- and
strong spamfilters sometimes misclassify some valid mails as spam,
inevitably.  So, we're trying to get through or around anyway, to get
the "Python community's book" 2nd edition published with all proper
permissions, and credits, and a complimentary copy to each contributor.

It was nowhere near as hard for the 1st edition -- posts were more
recent, there was less spam around, the community was smaller.  Sigh.
With things as they are now, the model just doesn't work any more; it
takes far too much time and energy to chase down everybody we'd want to
credit as a contributor in order to get proper permissions and snailmail
addresses for complimentary copies.

If anybody ever again in the future tries to make such a
"community-written book", my FIRST piece of advice to them is: _start_
by accepting into the website only those submissions which are
accompanied by whatever permissions, acceptances, addresses, etc, you
need (in case those submissions are later included in the book) to be
legally covered, give credit where credit is due, and send complimentary
copies or whatever.  Otherwise, the process is just too difficult:-(.


Alex


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 22:09:26 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:09:26 -0300
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
Message-ID: <864d37090410051909138f39ad@mail.gmail.com>

As part of a pet project of mine, I needed to find a way to re-execute
a class declaration[1]. The reason behind it was simple: the class
declaration in question had some external dependencies that could
potentially change during the lifetime of the program. I needed to be
able to execute the class 'declaration' block again to produce new
classes (in opposition to new instances, which would not solve my
problem)[2].

I solved the problem using inspect to find the current code object
*inside* the class declaration, and stored it an attribute of the
class itself. Then, a method of the class can be used to re-create it.
A metaclass-enabled version is shown below:

class Meta(type):
    def __new__(klass, name, bases, dct):
        dct['my_code'] = inspect.currentframe(1).f_code
        return type(name, bases, dct)

class MyClass:
    __metaclass__ = Meta
    creation_time = time.ctime()
    print "I'm inside my class definition!"
    def re_execute(klass):
        exec klass.my_code
        return MyClass
    re_execute = classmethod(re_execute)

Testing:

>>> class MyClass: 
        ...
I'm inside my class definition!
>>> id(MyClass)
8737376
>>> MyClass.creation_time
'Tue Oct 05 21:50:25 2004'
>>> NewClass = MyClass.re_execute()
I'm inside my class definition!
>>> id(NewClass)
8736912
>>> NewClass.creation_time
'Tue Oct 05 21:51:20 2004'

Implementation notes:

1) The exec statement actually binds the name to the same original
name, but in the current local scope. That's why it does a 'return
MyClass' in the re_execute() method. The MyClass symbol refers to the
local symbol with this name that was just re-created by the exec
method.

2) If you call the exec from the same scope where the class was
originally created, then it is automatically bound to the same name:

>>> id(MyClass)
8737376
>>> MyClass.creation_time
'Tue Oct 05 21:50:25 2004'
>>> exec MyClass.my_code
I'm inside my class definition!
>>> id(MyClass)
8744512
>>> MyClass.creation_time
'Tue Oct 05 21:56:53 2004'

3) I thought that the same technique could be made to work without a
metaclass, but I couldn't make it work. I haven't invested much time
to understand why -- it just works as implemented above. (It seems
that it does not bind correctly to the original name as it does if you
use the metaclass)

----
[1] After a long and interesting discussion for which I have to thank
Alex Martelli and several other members of c.l.py, I've come to
realize that there are no real class declarations in Python. But for
all effects, it's just easier to call them this way, even if the
underlying mechanism is different from the one used on other
traditional languages.

[2] Think about it as a templating mechanism, similar to the C++ one,
but for Python; this mechanism generates new classes that can be
instantiated as many times as needed. It's not the same thing as to
customize a instance during its initialization.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 11:13:25 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:13:25 +0200
Subject: question on list comprehensions
References: <ckm2up$cjv$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<560b81a4.0410150936.573bb6c4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1glsu7d.6cafdj1vxh4ebN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Mustafa Demirhan <mustafademirhan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Why not just use while loops instead of for loops? You dont have to
> create a new array each time you want a loop - you can simply use an
> index integer.
> 
>     i = 0
>     while i < 5000000:
>         res [0] = res [0] + i
>         i = i + 1
> 
> Takes less than 2 seconds on my laptop.

Sure, this is fine, but low-level twiddling with indices isn't all that
nice.  A compact alternative such as

    res[0] = sum(xrange(5000000))

is, IMHO, preferable to your while loop, not so much because it may be
faster, but because it expresses a single design idea ("let's sum the
first 5 million nonnegative integers") very directly, rather than
getting into the low-level implementation details of _how_ we generate
those integers one after the other, and how we sum them up ditto.


Alex


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 17:37:16 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 14:37:16 -0700
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>	<DaKdnbspTNXGvfjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>	<71fam01oatd8g87d6dpacbn2mcku9pe4j1@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4502.1097159793.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410071337.9756927@posting.google.com>

Paul McNett <p at ulmcnett.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.4502.1097159793.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Richie Hindle writes:
> 
> > [Peter]
> >
> > > If I expected many visitors
> > > from corporate environments, I'd not think this approach
> > > would have a "reasonably low margin of error".  Almost any
> > > such environment will have a firewall and masquerade
> > > multiple users as the same address.
> >
> > Some (many? all? negligibly few? I don't know) proxy
> > firewalls will tell you which internal address the request
> > came from, so you can combine the two to get a unique address
> > for that user.
> 
> I'd say "negligibly few", since there really isn't good reason 
> to give the world your internal ip address. Anyway, you can't 
> count on it, and you wouldn't have a basis to know what 
> percentage weren't unique.
> 
> Cookies won't work for you?

The sort of websites that will use this are going to be reasonably
low-traffic, 1000 hits a day or less. Bigger websites will find it
easier to generate user statistics from server logs. My script
duplicates the kind of thing thst http://www.sitemeter.com does. In
this case the margin of errror from using ip address will probably be
very low *however* cookies may still be a better solution as it would
be really nice to track who is a first time visitor and who is a
returning visitor.

This means setting cookies with a really long expire date though.....

Hmm... I think I'll just have to play around and see how they work.
Now it comes to implementing it my *real* problem is doing the data
analysis. I need a nice database engines that will answer questions
like 'how many visits from this refferer between the dates of 1st
October to the 8th of october'.....

Oh and a pure python image library would be nice !! Looks like I'll
have to hit google a bit. Thanks for your help everyone.

Regards,

Fuzzy


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 24 01:56:49 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:56:49 -0700
Subject: saving a complex object to disc
In-Reply-To: <c4c6a891.0410231454.35772fb2@posting.google.com>
References: <c4c6a891.0410231454.35772fb2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041023224938.0AFB.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


raragues at hotmail.com (ramon) wrote:
> I have a fairly complex object (with other objects as attributes
> (which in turn, have other objects as attributes), methods, etc) and I
> would like to save it to the disc so I can load it in the future. I've
> been reading about pyckle but I am not sure if that's what I need,
> since apparently one has to define exactly what he wants to save and
> how (and gives errors if the object has methods). I'd like to save the
> object as it is, and be able to get it from the file afterwards...
> 
> Can somebody point me into the right direction to achieve this?

If you are saving and loading it within equivalent namespaces (same
imports for the modules that contain the object description, etc.),
pickle would likely be sufficient.  It works best when there is pure
built-in types, but it usually ends up just pickling the __dict__
attribute of user-defined classes (which is usually sufficient, unless
you do things with properties...).

Really there is only one way to find out: try it!


  import cPickle

  st = cPickle.dumps(test_obj)
  out_obj = cPickle.loads(st)

If you can pragmatically compare test_obj and out_obj to determine if
they are, in fact, equivalent, then your problem is solved.

One thing to remember when writing to/from pickle files; always open the
files in binary (modes 'rb' or 'wb').  It guarantees that you won't get
borked by line endings, etc.

 - Josiah



From johng2001 at rediffmail.com  Mon Oct 18 17:28:22 2004
From: johng2001 at rediffmail.com (John)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 14:28:22 -0700
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
	<ad180$416d49e3$51604868$18466@nf1.news-service-com>
	<ba129ce7.0410152212.3d124886@posting.google.com>
	<1glszmt.1r4o5td16zzgx1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ba129ce7.0410181328.507a91a4@posting.google.com>

> CORBA itself allows every activation model one typically wants:
> in-process, external-process, remote-host.

That I did not know. Thanks for the info. I will check PyOrbit. I
currently use omniORBPy and occationally Fnorb.

> If your main
> thrust is building the equivalent of ActiveX "controls" (components with
> a visual interface), and GTK/Gnome is acceptable to you, PyORBit and
> ORBit2 might suit you best, for example.

My main interest is not GUI controls. Just being able to make code in
any language available to any other language on the same machine
regardless of the types of languages (static/dynamic, bytecode/native)
since all languages are good in something than others. Also, I am
frequently frustrated as my language choices seem to be based on
availablity of libraries and tools rather than languages due to the
nature of my projects. So I would like to be able to write part of the
code in Python, part of it in Pascal and maybe some in Java and have
all talk to each other easily through some sort of interface.
Something like a DLL/SO or COM. CORBA seems to be the best bet so far.


From python at rcn.com  Mon Oct 25 02:33:08 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 23:33:08 -0700
Subject: key argument for max?
References: <mailman.5265.1098376117.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0410242233.abecbf4@posting.google.com>

[Steven Bethard]
> I was wondering if there's any plans to add a "key" argument to max
> (and min) like was done for sort(ed)?  

Someday maybe.  In the meantime, here's a recipe:


from itertools import imap, izip, tee

def newmax(*args, **kwds):
    """Works just like max() but allows an optional key= argument.

    If several keys are equal and maximum, may return any one of them.
    """
    if 'key' not in kwds:
        return max(*args)
    func = kwds['key']

    if len(args) == 1:
        v = args[0]
    else:
        v = args
    v1, v2 = tee(v)
    return max(izip(imap(func, v1), v2))[-1]



> If this seems like a good idea, maybe someone could point me in the
> right direction and I could try to make a patch?  I've never looked at
> the Python sources before, and it's been a long time since I've
> written any C, but if it's not too hard...

See dist/src/Python/bltinmodule.c
Add the keyword argument.
If it exists apply the function on each iteration before the
comparision step.

The only part that requires extra care is realizing that the key
function and the comparison step may call arbitrary Python code, so
don't assume that any mutable objects are still in the same state
before and after those calls.



Raymond Hettinger


From benn at cenix-bioscience.com  Tue Oct 26 04:18:35 2004
From: benn at cenix-bioscience.com (Neil Benn)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:18:35 +0200
Subject: what are the most popular building and packaging tools
 for	python ??
In-Reply-To: <1gm8i53.1ghjcha10td2q4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <5a309bd30410250301b26f445@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.5441.1098730188.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm8i53.1ghjcha10td2q4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <417E085B.2050107@cenix-bioscience.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> <snip>
>
>Of course, there _are_ still, today, applications which can't assume the
>net is available and must still offer full functionality no matter what.
>They're fewer and fewer, thanks be, as connectivity spreads -- games
>accrue multiplayer online-play features that players are eager for,
>financial programs require access to updated exchange rates or stock
>levels, and so on.  If you do need to sell applications which have full
>functionality without net access, you may as well resign yourself: you
>will never be truly safe, alas.
>
>  
>
<snip>
Hello,

          Yes of course you're completely correct - you can't make 
anything totally secure - I'm talking of a handheld app so I can't 
assume connectivity always.  However I can make it more difficult than 
it needs to be to make illegal copies of the kit, consider this example :

==

No Obfuscation or Licence manager

Copy it - simply copy it onto a new handheld
Source code - decompile it

No Obfuscation and Licence Manager

Copy it - get help to break the licence manager but getting the source 
code off, reading the source code and use that to help discover what 
you're looking for
Source code - decompile it

With Obfuscation and Licence manager

Copy it - discover how the licence manager works which will normally 
have three levels of protection - Secrecy, mathematical managling and an 
identification code
Source code - copy off the byte code, decompile it get a function that 
uses /a/ for a class /aa /for another method /aaaaaaaaaaa /for another 
variable, VoteGeorgeBushOff for an interface (did you liek the 
subliminal message!!).  Yes you can deobfuscate that by working out what 
went on but its not gonna be easy and you may as well not bother.

==

    So while I certainly agree that its impossible to make code safe, 
the same way its impossible to stop a determined person kicking my front 
door down.  It is better to put obstacles in the way to increase the 
pain barrier to stopping it.  Cracking XP/Doom3/The Sims is done all the 
time - this isn't a 10K unit sale (if it becomes that I'll host a python 
party in the carribean!!) more like a <100 unit sale. 

    In general, you could also get the handheld if connected to 
T'Internet (British people may get that!!) to dial home with it's serial 
number every so often just so I can check that it's still licenced 
correctly.

    Once again, I know this isn't fool proof but to mean I'm comparing 
it against house security - not putting a lock on the front door is 
madness; then you need to work out how dangerous your area is and put 
appropiate security around it but it's never gonna be unbreakable!!!

Cheers,

Neil

-- 

Neil Benn
Senior Automation Engineer
Cenix BioScience
BioInnovations Zentrum
Tatzberg 47
D-01307
Dresden
Germany

Tel : +49 (0)351 4173 154
e-mail : benn at cenix-bioscience.com
Cenix Website : http://www.cenix-bioscience.com



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Thu Oct 14 10:20:23 2004
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:20:23 +0100
Subject: UDP server socket
References: <mailman.4934.1097757424.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckm26o$nej$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>


"Ajay" <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.4934.1097757424.5135.python-list at python.org...

> whats the maximum number of datagrams that can queue up on a UDP server
> socket? or is that system dependent?

It's system dependent; depends how much buffer space the kernel wants to
give away. Pulling numbers out of the air I would have thought that some value
between 8kB and 64kB would be typical.

 getsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_RCVBUF) and the
corresponding setsockopt call appear to be what you want, though I've never
had cause to use them.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 12:13:14 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:13:14 +0200
Subject: [OT] New to Python: Features
References: <40E605146701DE428FAF21286A97D3091744C6@wphexa02.corp.lh.int>
	<4162B7FD.9080702@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4339.1096988358.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gla5gn.1xzj7sjnweyetN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4503.1097160078.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glasgi.7919sc144i487N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
   ...
> Oh no, I thought I wrote that accident.  I don't like any brackets or
> else.  I like to write:   foo x, y   or    foo: x,y

I know, but since brackets (in normal CS jargon at least) mean [ ] and
what's used for calls are instead parentheses, ( ) , we were horsing
around about that.  Simple juxtaposition of identifiers, and colon, are
not operators in Python, so you can't overload them.

> Are you saying that if I have only one argument then I may drop the 
> parenthesis? Naw, your not saying that.

Right, I'm not -- and it's not just about syntax sugar.  When you
mention a name, in Python, you ARE doing just that: mentioning a name.

x = y

ALWAYS means to give name x to one more reference to the same object y
refers to.  This incredibly simple and powerful rule is NEVER going to
change with complications and qualifications such as 'unless y refers to
objects with certain characteristics in which case...' -- NEVER.  All
sort of callable objects are first-class, are first and foremost
objects, and mentioning them just gets a reference, no more, no less.

So, calling functions (and other callables) without arguments will never
be done by just mentioning a bare name referring to the callable object;
that would make callables deeply different from everything else, not
truly first-class.  I'm pretty sure that parentheses after the name will
remain the only normal way to perform a call (the 'apply' built-in is
basically obsolete).  If this is the case for functions without
arguments, it would be truly weird to have the rule change when
arguments are present.  Python is not and will never be about offering
several different syntax variants for identical operations just to
satisfy varying tastes in the field of syntax sugar...


Alex


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Oct 12 13:33:44 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:33:44 -0400
Subject: How to: get list of modules in a package
References: <4OudnSEQhLvFyfbcRVn-pg@rogers.com>
	<dfWdnaXpKtgvb_bcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <H-udnRnHbNsaiPHcRVn-uQ@rogers.com>

Thanks, Peter.  So the fact I didn't see any solution was not due to my lack 
of knowledge.  I thought I should ask and maybe someone would point out an 
elegant solution that was just beyond my own grasp of Python.

os.listdir() would not work in the general case, but it's good enough in my 
limited case.  The package is well-determined and it's always a directory. 
Even if I will change that some day, there will always be another equivalent 
for the os.listdir.

So thanks again, I can confidently go and implement a solution based on 
os.listdir.

Dan

"Peter L Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message 
news:dfWdnaXpKtgvb_bcRVn-tg at powergate.ca...
> Dan Perl wrote:
>> Is there a direct way to get a list of all the modules in a package, 
>> other than using an os.listdir() for the directory of the package?
>
> Given the dynamic nature of Python, I doubt that's easy to do.
> I'm not sure even os.listdir(), for example, can be relied on,
> given that you can import modules from zip files, or if the
> import hook is used, even from remote locations or, presumably
> (though I haven't seen it done yet), from "thin air" where
> the module is generated dynamically.
>
> -Peter 




From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 03:08:11 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 00:08:11 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
	<278de0e.0410102052.693297d7@posting.google.com>
	<6f402501.0410110805.67cd3fb4@posting.google.com>
	<278de0e.0410111836.3a5314e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410112308.7e3915e9@posting.google.com>

luismg at gmx.net (Neuruss) wrote in message news:<278de0e.0410111836.3a5314e0 at posting.google.com>...
> > I wish that more was heard from projects like starkiller, PyPy and
> > Psyco. Pyrex seems to be going strong though.
> 
> Latest news from Mike Salib (Starkiller):
> 
> "I've been stuck doing other things and have been kind of down lately,
> but I do want to finish a real Starkiller release before I start my new
> job in early october..."
> "I know a lot of people are waiting on Starkiller (and my seemingly
> endless delays), but it is coming along, and it will be ready when its
> ready.
> I'd rather wait until I can get a release out before sending anything to
> the newsgroup or mailing lists."

Great - that's very good news !!
Premature release is bad, knowing that things are still moving forward is good.....

Regards,

Fuzzy


From export at hope.cz  Thu Oct 21 03:02:12 2004
From: export at hope.cz (Lad)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 00:02:12 -0700
Subject: How to start a new thread ?
Message-ID: <81a41dd.0410202302.2e1d7e71@posting.google.com>

>From running script I would like to start a new script in a new
window.How can I do that from Python?
Thanks for help
LAD


From b.niemann at betternet.de  Fri Oct  8 07:48:45 2004
From: b.niemann at betternet.de (Benjamin Niemann)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:48:45 +0200
Subject: How to determine if a file is busy?
In-Reply-To: <c89d662c.0410080246.52ed9407@posting.google.com>
References: <c89d662c.0410080246.52ed9407@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck5uiv$hhj$1@online.de>

How about writing the data to a file 'mydata.new' and when you are finished, 
delete 'mydata' and rename 'mydata.new' to 'mydata'.
This way the python script will always get 'complete' files (and sometimes no 
file at all, when it come in between rm and mv ...)

Busyman wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have written a stay-open-AppleScript for Mac OS X, gathering certain
> informations from different apps, which can only be gathered via
> AppleScript. This script writes its informations into a simple text
> file, every 15 seconds. And a python script is supposed to read this
> text file on a regular basis in order to feed the aquired datat into a
> database working only on Windows. Now the problem: How can I prevent
> that the python script reads the content of the text file, while my
> AppleScripts writes new information to it? Is there any 'busy'-status
> for files?
> 
> Thanks in advance from cold and cloudy Germany!
> 
> Martin


From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Oct 12 15:11:17 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:11:17 -0400
Subject: How to: get list of modules in a package
In-Reply-To: <Ev-dnS1wxIC7hfHcRVn-tQ@rogers.com>
References: <4OudnSEQhLvFyfbcRVn-pg@rogers.com><dfWdnaXpKtgvb_bcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>	<mailman.4757.1097594848.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Ev-dnS1wxIC7hfHcRVn-tQ@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <416C2C55.904@rogers.com>

Dan Perl wrote:

>What a tease!  "It definitely has been done in the past", so there must be a 
>way, but you're not telling us how you did that!  :-)
>  
>
Ah, apparently I wasn't clear enough in my quoted antecedent :) , I was 
referring to Peter's comment that he'd not seen anyone produce modules 
'from "thin air"', rather than to whether this could be solved in the 
general case.  I was backing him up in his assertion that there's no 
*general* way to solve the problem, rather than attempting to contradict 
him :)  (those Canucks get dangerous when contradicted).

If you mean you wanted to know how to do the module-from-thin-air thing, 
the code for mcf.vrml is available on sourceforge, so it's not like I'm 
hiding it ;) , but I doubt you'd want to use that particular pattern 
anymore :) .

Have fun,
Mike

>>Peter L Hansen wrote:
>>...
>>    
>>
...

>>>import hook is used, even from remote locations or, presumably
>>>(though I haven't seen it done yet), from "thin air" where
>>>the module is generated dynamically.
>>>      
>>>
...
________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From param at cs.wisc.edu  Tue Oct 19 21:27:53 2004
From: param at cs.wisc.edu (Paramjit Oberoi)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:27:53 -0500
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.20.01.27.52.116416@cs.wisc.edu>

> Since then I've been playing around with this... not the parsing part (which
> so far I have completely ignored) but the programmer interface. There needs
> to be a well-thought-out data model for the information stored, and the user
> interface needs to be very easy to use, yet not so "magical" that it becomes
> difficult to understand.

>From the me-too department:

For me personally, the problems with ConfigParser were inconvenient value
access/update and lack of order-preservation by the INI parser/writer.  I
have developed my own solution which:

* Is convenient: both attribute access as well as container syntax can be
used to access as well as update values:

   from cfgparse.iniparser import ini_namespace
   conf = ini_namespace()
   conf.user.name = 'Oberoi'
   print conf['user']['name']
   'Oberoi'

* Preserves order/indentation/spacing when the INI file is updated and
when the data is accessed.

* I have given some thought to the data model and interface question, but
probably not as much as you.  The data model simply is that of arbitrarily
nested namespaces, each containing values (although each specific
implementation of the model can have it's own restrictions - for example,
INI files don't allow top-level values).  The abstract model/interface
allos conversion from one config format to another.

* I have some code written using the ConfigParser API which I didn't want
to have to update, so an API-compatible interface is also available which
implements the old interface, as well as allowing access to the new one.

The code can be found here:

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~param/software/cfgparse/

-param


From fumanchu at amor.org  Thu Oct  7 11:43:42 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:43:42 -0700
Subject: Converting a set of data to string and then into a file
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F44@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Thomas Guettler wrote:
> Am Thu, 07 Oct 2004 06:30:58 -0700 schrieb Shufen:
> 
> > Hi,
> >  
> > I have set up a upload form where user can add data into 
> the form via
> > a web browser and submit it. And these data entered by the user will
> > be grabbed by:
> > 
> > xxxx = data.getvalue.('xxxx')     # data is the name of the form
> 
> > The error stated that I can't concatenate 'str'
> > and 'NoneType'.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> You can do it like this:
> 
> foo=data.getvalue("....")
> if foo==None:
>     foo=""

Just to add an idiom I find clean and reasonable... I'd write:

foo = data.getvalue("....") or ""

It might perform an 'extra' instruction if getvalue == "", but I
generally don't care; I find that the compression into one line
summarizes the operation nicely.


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 13:25:37 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 13:25:37 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <96c2e938.0410050834.7f8008d6@posting.google.com>
References: <20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<41622FEB.1000300@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4319.1096957126.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<96c2e938.0410050834.7f8008d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4162D911.6030109@cloudthunder.com>

G. S. Hayes wrote:

>Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.4319.1096957126.5135.python-list at python.org>...
>  
>
>>>>    bar = staticmethod(bar)
>>>>        
>>>>
>[SNIP]
>  
>
>>>How come Python always complains when I don't include the self parameter
>>>      
>>>
>>  
>>    
>>
>>>in an object method?  Your code doesn't work on my interpreter.
>>>      
>>>
>>I don't know what is wrong with your interpreter...
>>    
>>
>
>Wasn't staticmethod added somewhat recently (2.2 timeframe?)?  If so,
>maybe he has an older version installed...
>  
>
I think it is 2.1 or something like that. 


From peter at semantico.com  Wed Oct  6 10:49:27 2004
From: peter at semantico.com (Peter Hickman)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 15:49:27 +0100
Subject: How to improve extracting data speed
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4424.1097072853.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4424.1097072853.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41640582$0$7742$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Yong Wang wrote:
> Hi, All:
>     I have a program in C language to extract data from binary file. Is there any way 
> I can use python to improve extract speed beause binary file is extreme large ?
>     Thank you all for inputs.
> 
>      Yong
> 

It rather depends on what you are doing with the data. Python ultimately will 
have to make exactly the same calls to the open and read functions that C does 
and as such it can be no faster than the system calls. If you are doing anything 
special with the data then perhaps Python can help with that to speed things up.

If your C program has a good algorithm to extract the data from the binary file 
then you are probably going to use much the same algorithm in Python, however 
Python may help with the data structures and how you process the data after you 
read it in.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 21:56:59 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 22:56:59 -0300
Subject: id() collisions on bound methods [was: metaclass and
	customization with parameters]
In-Reply-To: <59e9fd3a04100517216b5bf323@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F33@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
	<20041005235752.29723.1522463815.divmod.quotient.10124@ohm>
	<59e9fd3a04100517216b5bf323@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904100518566559f66e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:21:14 +1100, Andrew Durdin <adurdin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:57:52 GMT, exarkun at divmod.com <exarkun at divmod.com> wrote:
> >
> >    1) instanceObj.methodAttr results in a *new* bound method object every time it is evaluated.
> 
> **enlightenment dawns**
> 
> That's the bit that I was missing. It all makes sense now.

I just replied to you on another thread. I've come to this conclusion
after seeing your example and doing some tests, perhaps because I
remembered reading a few days ago Raymond Hettinger's docs on
descriptors where its stated something along the lines that
"descriptors are the basis for <a whole bunch of things including>
bound and unbound methods". So it made sense...

...but even so, what doesn't make sense to me is if it's worth to do
it, at each and every method invocation. I really don't know, and I'm
curious, but I have no clue where to start looking for it, or how to
measure the impact on real-time performance.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 25 19:43:55 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:43:55 -0400
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <clj9du$l12$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5432.1098719901.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d2543$0$45533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj9du$l12$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Yhgfd.15018$lp6.822@okepread01>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> 
>>I don't really want to have to come to individual agreements
>>with 5-10 different module authors.  That's why "standard"
>>licenses were invented.
> 
> 
> Yes, and for an author to GPL a module is the standard way of saying use it
> as you like in your program, but distribute your part of the work under the
> same terms. Basically an embrace-and-extend antidote for code.
> 
> I think talking to an author and maybe offering a moderate fee if you want
> terms more favourable to your purpose shouldn't be too much.
> 
> Otherwise you have to stick to modules with BSD/MIT/Python Licenses - not
> that rare in Python land.
> 

Looks that way. Time was, authors would use the LGPL for libraries 
(which was why it was developed in the first place). But if someone puts 
a module under the GPL then any integrated use of that module is a 
dervied work and must, if redistributed, be put out under the GPL.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From uche at ogbuji.net  Fri Oct  8 14:38:47 2004
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 8 Oct 2004 11:38:47 -0700
Subject: XSL transform with Python
References: <33a013af.0410060646.3a821dc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0410081038.57bbb5b9@posting.google.com>

vegard at mail.com (Vegard Bakke) wrote in message news:<33a013af.0410060646.3a821dc7 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi!
> 
> All I want to do is transforming an XML into another XML using an XSLT
> stylesheet.
> 
> From what I have found on the web/usenet there are several xml/xsl
> libraries/wrapper, all in various stages of alpha/beta/stalled
> releases. (Sablotron, Sab-pyth, PySablot, libxml2, libxslt are some of
> those I found.)
> 
> The script will be running in a production environment and must
> therefore be stable above all. Alphas and Betas are not that welcome.
> 
> Can anyone give me a pointer to what module to use, what is stable,
> and what is and be stay standard for Python?

Don't forget 4Suite, which supports EXSLT and a lot of other
extensions, and has a very clean Python extension mechanism.

http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/python-xslt

-- 
Uche Ogbuji                                    Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.net    http://4Suite.org    http://fourthought.com
 
A hands-on introduction to ISO Schematron -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-xschematron-i.html
Wrestling HTML (using Python) -
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/09/08/pyxml.html
Enterprise data goes high fashion -
http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=10061
Principles of XML design: Considering container elements -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-contain.html
Hacking XML Hacks - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think26.html
A survey of XML standards -
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-stand4/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 15:45:21 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:45:21 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<tyfsm8b9kqm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1glxal0.rxjtsr1pbf0guN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
   ...
> Here's a program that tells you the answer. Should be trivially
> translatable to many other languages.
> 
> ========================================================================
> def passCheck(b):
>     b = 'new'
> 
> def doesThisLanguageBindByValue(language):
>     a = 'original'
>     b = a
>     b = 'new'
>     if a == 'original':
>         print "%s assigns by value" % (language)
>     else:
>         print "%s does not assigns by value" % (language)

Can you give some examples of languages which would end up in the else
branch?  I think that with a suitably perverse operator= I might be able
to imitate this weird effect in C++, but then I think I'd have to make
the 'b = a' a copy ctor instead of an assignment (or get to such levels
of perversion that even my once-C++-addled mind reels at...;-).


Alex


From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Oct 22 03:27:33 2004
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:27:33 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python and generic programming
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410221025290.3665@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Jeremy Bowers wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:25:49 +0400, Roman Suzi wrote:
> > Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
>
> OK, independent of the usual top-posting debate, you *really* need to not
> top-post a Usenet signiture (two dashes followed by a space). I hit reply
> and this is all my (conformant) newsreader picked up as the message; the
> rest is (correctly in the abstract) considered a signiture.

Thank you for pointing this out: I was mailing from unusual account.

> Anyhow, I have a question:
>
> > Most Python programs are already kinda generic, yes. But generic
> > programming adds multi-sorted types control and constraints to ensure
> > type safety...
>
> Is this type safety that you refer to truly necessary according to
> somebody's definition of "generic programming"? If so, can you link to it?
> (Maybe not, as it may just be in a paper; I'm asking for info if it's
> easy, not if it is hard.)

Google gives

http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~musser/gp/

> See, some people insist that the kind of type safety that you are
> referring to are absolutely, positively necessary in OO, too. But then
> these people are left unable to explain why Python programs fail to fly
> apart at the seams as they get larger. (This was one of the things that
> finally broke me of the strong typing inculcation I received in school;

> strong typing, considered as a scientific theory (something like "Large
> programs must be strongly typed, or they will cease working and
> maintenance will become impossible"), made claims about programs that
> proved to be wrong. Therefore, discard the theory. (Which isn't to say it
> is *useless*, just that the cause/effect theories didn't pan out.))
>
> So I am honestly asking (since I don't know), is it really *necessary*
> according to some reasonably widely acknowledged definition of "generic
> programming, or is it a continued holdover from 25+ years of strong typing
> dogma that might also be disproved by an existing implementation that
> falsifies the theoretical claims?
>
> Generic programming to me has been the recognition that it can be powerful
> to program to interfaces/concepts/capabilities. There is a core idea in
> that three-word block, but the implementation differs from language to
> language, and one should not confuse a given implementation, esp. in a
> language predating the term, with the idea of "generic programming". As
> with about half of the "Design Patterns", Python does "generic

> programming" so easily that it can be easy for someone used to jumping
> through hoops and being caught up in the trappings to not recognize that
> Python captures the essence with little or no effort.
>
> In this case, it is "no" effort: Python does generic programming in this
> sense *automatically*, every time you write an algorithm, and you have to
> work hard to avoid it. (Though for any given algorithm it may of course
> end up depending intimately on some set of properties such that it can't
> conceivably be used generically, but *Python* isn't standing in the way.)

That is, Python supports generic programming paradigm while (like in C++)
much is left to the discipline of programmer.

> In fact, if Alex Martelli had a dime for every time he smacked someone
> metaphorically on this newsgroup for so breaking the genericity of the
> algorithm (by unnecessarily using "isinstance", usually), he'd, well, be
> able to buy a very, very nice dinner.
>
> So I guess I'd emphasize that I am quite explicitly *not* asking about the
> trappings of a given implementation; I'm asking about the true essence of
> the idea. My feeling is no, but I am not an expert on generic programming
> and would look forward to learning how I might be wrong here, even with my
> evident biases (/experience) on the typing issue.

I am no expert too. That was the reason to ask here in the first place ;-)

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -



From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Oct 18 13:09:03 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:09:03 GMT
Subject: UNIX-style sort in Python?
In-Reply-To: <1gluhuw.1yq6gn51631vg6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <I-6dnfLpv8Gzl-7cRVn-sw@comcast.com>
	<akEcd.8228$gy1.757@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gluhuw.1yq6gn51631vg6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PMScd.270$%h1.154@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Wrong syntax -- needs to be:
> 
> lines = [(get_fields(line), line) for line in open("imputfilename")]

Bah!  I all too often forget that () on the LHS of the list
comprehension.  :(

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 24 09:51:14 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:51:14 +0200
Subject: simple recursion help
References: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<VUyed.320061$bp1.273357@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
	<mailman.5375.1098565018.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-D9DE07.17494723102004@localhost>
	<1gm4vyt.1eykww1d7p0i8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Michael.J.Fromberger-6A88BA.07581424102004@localhost>
Message-ID: <1gm63rl.qysiio15nbfuzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Michael J. Fromberger <Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU>
wrote:
   ...
> > In 2.4 one can do a bit better for the yield, with
> > 
> >         yield ''.join(alph[i] for i in reversed(ixs))
> > 
> > [generator expression vs list comprehension, and reversed built-in vs
> > reversal by slicing].
> 
> Yes, I'm aware of both of those improvements, but since I do not yet 
> have Python 2.4, I did not use any of its new features in my solution.

Everybody's strongly urged to download and try 2.4 beta 1.  We think
it's quite solid and speedy, but unless users validate that on their
huge variety of platforms and programs, how can we be _sure_?

> In any case, thank you for the helpful comments on both sides of the 2.4
> divide.

You're welcome!  Also note that on the other branch of this thread a
non-recursive, list based solution was posted that's about an order of
magnitude faster for short alph and small values of k (not applicable to
the general problem of yielding an unbounded sequence of strings, but
useful for the original problem where the sequence of strings was
specified to be reasonably small).


Alex


From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Mon Oct 18 14:21:35 2004
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:21:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <cl0umu$kdm$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<cl0v8o$8a4$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<mailman.5126.1098122988.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl11jf$r9$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

>> I've given up expressing my opinion on the matter.  Everyone here
>> seems to have a different notion of what "pass-by-reference" and
>> "pass-by-value" mean.  It's funny--I've never run into trouble with
>> these terms before seeing these discussions on C.L.Py.

> It is because Python does it differently from most other languages, and
> it doesn't fit the paradigms of "pass by value" or "pass by reference"
> as already explained by Alex Martelli.

It's really not that different.  It's very similar to the way Java
handles objects, and how scheme does argument-passing.

> Python does name binding with references.  That is, each reference is
> given a name, but you cannot change data by assigning to a name; you can
> only change what data that name points to.  There are certain operations
> that can be done with mutable objects and immutable objects, but that is
> another discussion entirely.

Yes.  These two issues often get muddled together in discussions about
argument passing.  Are you avoiding the term "variable"?  Some don't
like to use it because they see Python as somehow fundamentally
different than other languages.  I think the term fits nicely.

> There is not so much an argument, but there is a semantic "what the hell
> is it doing" that is not being communicated properly.  I am sure there
> is a FAQ about this, but I don't have the link handy, and I can't quite
> find the right incantation for Google.

>  - Josiah



From sstaats at questia.com  Mon Oct 11 11:55:06 2004
From: sstaats at questia.com (S. Staats)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 08:55:06 -0700
Subject: Sorry about the ugly-looking post
Message-ID: <64cf9d00.0410110755.3c75cf48@posting.google.com>

I'm having to use google groups to post and I was cutting and pasting
text - and ended up with an ugly-looking subject in my previous
posting.


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Oct 18 14:44:33 2004
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:44:33 -0500
Subject: Snakelets and WSGI
In-Reply-To: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F6F@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F6F@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <41740F11.2090203@colorstudy.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> Snakelets are more problematic, because WSGI heavily prefers a "server
> pull" model over write() calls. You'd probably have to deprecate
> Snakelets as written (or wrap write() so it queues their output as
> well), replacing them eventually with a model that yields values rather
> than calling write().

I think this has been a little overemphasized in this thread.  The only 
place where this really matters is when you are streaming content -- 
that is, you are producing so much content that you want to start 
sending the response before you are finished with the whole thing, or so 
much content that you don't want to have it all in memory at once.  The 
only place where this really occurs is serving media files or other 
large documents.

I think it's quite valid for a web framework like Snakelets to simply 
cache the entire page, and send it in one big chunk.  StringIO is an 
easy way to do this.  Caching the result content offers other 
advantages, like allowing you to change the headers after part of the 
content has been produced (e.g., to add a cookie).

The issue with WSGI's write is that the server is supposed to send the 
content right away (or at least try) when you call it.  If you are 
generating content in small chunks (less than 1K), then you may be 
asking the server to do its work inefficiently; it probably knows better 
how much content should be buffered, and when the client is ready for 
more content.

So, mostly, just don't get too distracted by the fact that Snakelets and 
WSGI both have something called "write".

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org


From altis at semi-retired.com  Fri Oct  8 14:23:03 2004
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:23:03 -0700
Subject: Can wxWidgets/wxPython 2.4 and 2.5 co-exist on same PC?
References: <MqOdnbIa_pf4OPvcRVn-ig@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <YJA9d.14$fd.35294@news.uswest.net>


"R Baumann" <ryntatqwest.net> wrote in message
news:MqOdnbIa_pf4OPvcRVn-ig at comcast.com...
> I would like to be able to run Boa Constructor, which does not yet use
2.5,
> but I would also like to work with Dabo which does.
>
> Anyone have any ideas about how to accomplish this?
>
> Thanks
> Ruben

Well if you are running Windows there is a very easy way to accomplish that.

http://altis.pycs.net/2004/08/20.html

If you are running Linux then you will probably have to wait for the planned
wxPython versioning scheme. On Mac OS X you shouldn't bother running
anything earlier than wxPython 2.5.2.7.

ka




From liquid at kuht.it  Tue Oct  5 16:27:05 2004
From: liquid at kuht.it (GMTaglia)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:27:05 GMT
Subject: NameError
References: <TjD8d.43576$75.2160680@news3.tin.it>
Message-ID: <tsD8d.68128$35.3435531@news4.tin.it>

Answering to myself....

> probably dumb question but after googling a lot I couldn't find an answer.
> with a simple Gtk:Dialog I have this error:

yep really dumb

> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "elenco.py", line 122, in show_msg
>     dialog.vbox.pack_start(label, TRUE, TRUE, 0)
> NameError: global name 'TRUE' is not defined
> 

I just thought that TRUE (uppercase) was valid python....or not... :)

Cheers, Mario


From nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com  Tue Oct 12 05:07:57 2004
From: nicolas.lehuen at thecrmcompany.com (Nicolas Lehuen)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:07:57 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<ck3ls6$62e$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<9fc58c06.0410111225.5e6a1662@posting.google.com>
	<1pDad.22529$5O5.5713@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <416b9eed$0$11828$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr>


"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> a ?crit dans le message de news:1pDad.22529$5O5.5713 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Luis P Caamano:
> 
> > Therefore, fixing the GIL was always in competition with existing code
> > and libraries, and it always lost because it was (and still is)
> > considered "not worth the effort."
> 
>    Greg Stein implemented a "free-threaded" version of Python in 1996 and
> had another look in 2000.
> 
> http://python.tpnet.pl/contrib-09-Dec-1999/System/threading.README
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-April/003605.html
> 
>     So, it is not the initial implementation of a GIL-free Python that is
> the stumbling block but the maintenance of the code. The poor performance of
> free-threaded Python contributed to the lack of interest.

Yeah, and the poor performance of the ActiveState Python for .NET implementation led them to tell that the CLR could not be efficient in implementing Python. Turns out that the problem was in the implementation, not the CLR, and that IronPython gives pretty good performances.

It's not because an implementation gives poor performance that the whole free-threaded concept is bad.

Plus, the benchmarks is highly questionable. Compare a single threaded CPU intensive program with a multi-threaded CPU intensive program, the single threaded program wins. Now compare IO intensive (especially network IO) programs, the multi-threaded program wins. Granted, you can built high performing asynchronous frameworks (Twisted or medusa come to mind), but sooner or later you'll have to use threads (see the DB adapter for Twisted).

Regards,

Nicolas Lehuen


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Tue Oct 12 04:01:28 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:01:28 +0200
Subject: How do you  do this in python with tk?
In-Reply-To: <8f17f4bc.0410111438.7d73466f@posting.google.com>
References: <8f17f4bc.0410071431.15e0c4ef@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4538.1097192656.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8f17f4bc.0410080849.51fbdcfa@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410081736.5ab4a62@posting.google.com>
	<a7a67196.0410082348.36fd45a@posting.google.com>
	<8f17f4bc.0410091859.39a6c028@posting.google.com>
	<416a53cd$0$16541$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<8f17f4bc.0410111438.7d73466f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416b8d92$0$7227$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Ali wrote:
>>Setting state='disabled' does not only prevent the user from editing the text, 
>>but also prevents *you* from modifying the text via the insert or delete 
>>methods. So whenever you want to insert or delete lines in the text, you must 
>>configure its state to 'normal' before, do the modification, then set back its 
>>state to 'disabled'
>>
>>HTH
> 
> 
> OK so I tryed:
> 
> import Tkinter
> def add_rows(w, titles, rows):
>     t.state = 'normal'

tk options are not exposed as widget attributes, but via the configure method or 
dictionary-style indexing. So this should be:

w.configure(state='normal')

or:

w['state'] = 'normal'

What you did only creates a new attribute named "state" for the widget, which 
has no meaning at all at tk level.

[snip]

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From no at spam.please  Wed Oct 13 15:36:51 2004
From: no at spam.please (Doug Holton)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:36:51 -0500
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
In-Reply-To: <278de0e.0410131104.2109521e@posting.google.com>
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<278de0e.0410131104.2109521e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BvmdnXr5b4hSHvDcRVn-pw@comcast.com>

Neuruss wrote:
> I've been playing with Booish a litle bit, but there are some things
> that I don't understand very well, and unfortunately, there's little
> documentation so far to read...
> 
> I wonder if you could explain with an example how the static typing
> and the type inference work in Boo.
> I'd like to know "where", "when" and "how" should I declare types and
> when I shouldn't.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure what you guys understand for "type inference". I
> used to think that it was a way to find out the types of the variables
> without having to declare them, but since Boo is statically typed,
> where does type inference fit in? How?

Yeah, if you wouldn't mind, could you copy this question to the boo 
mailing list?  http://boo.codehaus.org/Mailing+Lists
Thanks, it is better to discuss it there.  Maybe we can improve the 
current wiki page about boo's type inference too:
http://boo.codehaus.org/Type+Inference


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Wed Oct 13 14:08:57 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:08:57 -0400
Subject: failed delivery messages
In-Reply-To: <1097689030.12092.220.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <1097682390.12092.183.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>	<416D59D6.4020209@cloudthunder.com>
	<1097689030.12092.220.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <416D6F39.9000606@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>Well, in Evolution I'd probably just set up another account with a bogus
>email address and whenever I post to lists, simply select that account
>to send from.  In a newsreader, you can set your email address to
>anything you like, so it's about the same there.  I'm not sure about
>other mailers, but I'd guess that as long as they support having more
>than one email address it should be fairly simple. 
>
>Regards,
>Cliff
>
>  
>
Oh, so the usenet is open and doesn't require subscription?


From chumpwad at chump.wad  Mon Oct 18 14:33:50 2004
From: chumpwad at chump.wad (Chump Wad)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:33:50 GMT
Subject: PyQt and Pivy
References: <41712901.96E76762@chump.wad>
Message-ID: <41741080.FD94435@chump.wad>

FYI:

Tamer Fahmy has made it work.

Using:

Pivy Rev 229
Coin-2.3.0
PyQt-x11-gpl-3.13
Python-2.3.4
sip-4.1.1
SoQt-1.0.2
SWIG-1.3.21

everything works.

10.2.setEventCB works, and SoQt.init returns a QWidget which I can use as
the parent
of my PyQt derived widget, which contains a frame that can be used as the
parent of an
SoQtRenderArea to display Coin renderings.

I can even use an SoQtExaminerViewer, and it can animate the windmill while
I click a
button in my PyQt derived widget and have it's slot execute

Tamer Fahmy ROCKS!



Chump Wad wrote:

> I will now die.  I am too ignorant to make it work.
>
> 10.2.setEventCB.py segfaults for me.
>
> It is almost there, but it is not there.  SoQt.init returns a string,
> which I can't use as the parent widget of my PyQt derived class.
>
> SoQt.show and mainLoop need a string as a parameter, so my PyQt derived
> class can't go there.
>
> I humbly beg of your help.
>
> I don't understand the following; I would love a non-portable linkage to
> libsip if it would get me the Qt widget set:
>
>    * In case anybody wonders! yes, i know that one can achieve all of
> this
>    * in a very simple and elegant fashion by just using the sip library,
>
>    * like e.g. adding the following instead of the structure
> declarations
>    * and our stunt:
>    * #define ANY_TEMP ANY
>    * #undef ANY
>    * #include <sip.h>
>    * #undef ANY
>    * #define ANY ANY_TEMP
>    *
>    *   extern PyObject *sipClass_QEvent;
>    *   qev = sipNewCppToSelfSubClass(event, sipClass_QEvent, SIP_SIMPLE
> | SIP_PY_OWNED);
>    *
>    * this works perfectly and is such a lovely solution that i really
> wanted
>    * to keep it. BUT libsip gets installed into the python site-packages
>
>    * directory and not only would we need to link against libsip but
> also
>    * against the libqtcmodule for the sipClass_Qevent object. this
> SUCKS,
>    * adds new library dependencies, which i simply don't want to cope
> with
>    * and makes the platform independent goal harder to achieve.
>
> I should say that the rest of it works GREAT!  This is a monumental
> work.  It is so solid and functional and beautiful.
>
> I thank you very much for this wonderful thing, which someone should
> have done long ago, but only you actually accomplished.



From moof at boof.moof  Fri Oct 22 21:59:30 2004
From: moof at boof.moof (Roose)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:59:30 GMT
Subject: non-blocking XML-RPC
Message-ID: <6Wied.33767$QJ3.8644@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Is there a way to make the xmlrpclib calls using ServerProxy not block?
Basically I am kicking off programs on remote machines, and they take hours
to run.  I want to use the features of marshaling arguments over, but most
of the functions will not return any value at all.

Is there some other mechanism I should be using?

thanks,
Roose




From luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt  Fri Oct 22 15:44:35 2004
From: luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt (Luis P. Mendes)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:44:35 +0100
Subject: backslash plague
In-Reply-To: <1gm2tuh.sg3fl11rm2newN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <2tt4b2F24cffeU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1gm2tuh.sg3fl11rm2newN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2tt5t0F24460hU1@uni-berlin.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

So, the trick is to put the r in front of the string?!

with the r in front:

x = r'R0\1.2646\1.2649\D'
|>> elements = x.split('\\')
|>> elements
['R0', '1.2646', '1.2649', 'D']  <--what I want


without it:

y='R0\1.2646\1.2649\D'
|>> elements = y.split('\\')
|>> elements
['R0\x01.2646\x01.2649', 'D']  <-- not good


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFBeWMjHn4UHCY8rB8RArvEAJ91mc423u5zY+xYQOLCXoE3ouzb4gCePix/
a745y1s3UMvW61prb6ndCUk=
=pREV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 08:58:19 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 05:58:19 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<1gm98e3.ewsm1jxg9y3tN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410262047.1de735cc@posting.google.com>
	<1gmb486.1l924gm1ing3f9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410270458.f5b18f9@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gmb486.1l924gm1ing3f9N%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> If the many analogies, arguments, and practical examples that have been
> offered to help you see why, help you accept the fact, good.

They have. Thank you.
-kartik


From f.geiger at vol.at  Fri Oct 29 14:51:31 2004
From: f.geiger at vol.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:51:31 +0200
Subject: [wxPython] How to rebuild a page containing controls because some
	of them have to be deleted?
Message-ID: <clu3bj$sv5$1@newshispeed.ch>

I often use Notebook to structure my GUIs. Sometimes I have to provide a
Settings page. Doing changes in this page influences other pages in such a
way, that some controls have to change add or remove children or even have
to be removed from the page at all.

Yet I could not come up with a solid pattern how to do this. I tried to call
DestroyChildren(), delete all ref's to them, and to set the page's sizer to
None. This doesn't work very well. When I rebuild the page, at least the
arrangement of the controls is not the same as before, which makes me think,
that other things will go wrong in the long run too.

For now I issue a dialog telling the user, that he has to restart the app -
not very professional looking...

So, how is this done best?

Kind regards
Franz GEIGER




From steensen101 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 30 18:55:56 2004
From: steensen101 at yahoo.com (steen)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 15:55:56 -0700
Subject: py2exe and window with info about error
References: <el22e9rn34iw.dlg@cokolwiek.pl>
Message-ID: <1099176956.695647.220690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Krzysztof Ksi??ek wrote:
> Hi!
>
> As almost totally newbe, I have written a simple script and I'm proud
of
> it ;-) It connects to ftp server and uploads some files. Kind of
backup.
> I've compiled it with py2exe and put it in autostart.
> When something is wrong (in example, I'm not connected to the net),
it
> opens a window with some information about error and exact location
> where I can find log.

I believe the best solution would be to catch the exception. Then you
wont get any error messages at all :-)
I have never used ftplib so I cant provide sample code but you should
probably put a try: except: around your connect command. Then when an
exception is raised you can take apropriate action like logging to a
file or just ignore it.

> How can I get rid of this window? I'd like to have a log file, but I
> don't want to see a popup during XP startup.
>
> I have no idea if it is important, but here is my setup.py:
>
> from distutils.core import setup
> import py2exe
> setup(windows=["script.py"])
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
> 
> Regards,
> Krzysztof Ksiazek



From orionlux at voila.fr  Sun Oct 31 10:33:17 2004
From: orionlux at voila.fr (orionlux)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:33:17 +0100
Subject: question de bonne doc
Message-ID: <418505b9$0$3662$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

bonjour
j ai install? python sur ma distrib linux mandrake 10
je suis a la recherche d une bonne DOCUMENTATION (? savoir la liste
des instructions python + des exemples ) mais je ne trouve rien pour l
instant

les livres o'reilly sur python sont decevant
qui connait de bonnes<references de livres et de lien sur le net ?
merci de me repondre

orionlux


From mike at skew.org  Sun Oct 17 03:33:01 2004
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:33:01 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Message from exception raised in generator disappears
In-Reply-To: <20041017020846.GC2588@unpythonic.net> "from Jeff Epler at Oct 16,
	2004 09:08:47 pm"
Message-ID: <200410170733.i9H7X1s2044882@chilled.skew.org>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> PS Here's my stab at writing your function, which seems like a useful
> one.
> 
> def chars(s):
>     s = iter(s)
>     for i in s:
>         if u'\ud800' <= i < u'\udc00':
>             try:
>                 j = s.next()
>             except StopIteration:
>                 raise ValueError("Bad pair: string ends after %r" % i)
>             if u'\udc00' <= j < u'\ue000':
>                 yield i + j
>             else:
>                 raise ValueError("Bad pair: %r (no second half)" % (i+j))
>         elif u'\udc00' <= i < u'\ude00':
>                 raise ValueError("Bad pair: %r (no first half)" % i)
>         else:
>             yield i

Ah, nice, thanks, and very close. You needed to account for byte strings, 
though, and the last value in the elif needs to be u'\ue000', not u'\ude00'.
Here we go:

def chars(s):
    if isinstance(s, str):
        for i in s:
            yield i
        return
    s = iter(s)
    for i in s:
        if u'\ud800' <= i < u'\udc00':
            try:
                j = s.next()
            except StopIteration:
                raise ValueError("Bad pair: string ends after %r" % i)
            if u'\udc00' <= j < u'\ue000':
                yield i + j
            else:
                raise ValueError("Bad pair: %r (bad second half)" % (i+j))
        elif u'\udc00' <= i < u'\ue000':
                raise ValueError("Bad pair: %r (no first half)" % i)
        else:
            yield i


# tests of good strings
[c for c in chars('test')]
[c for c in chars('test \xe9')]
[c for c in chars(u'test \xe9 \u2022 \ud800\udc00 \U00010000')]
[c for c in chars(u'test \xe9 \u2022 \udbff\udffd \U0010fffd')]

# tests of bad strings
[c for c in chars(u'test \ud800')]        # string ends before 2nd half
[c for c in chars(u'test \ud800 test')]   # bad 2nd half
[c for c in chars(u'test \ud800\ud800')]  # bad 2nd half
[c for c in chars(u'test \udc00 test')]   # no 1st half

Awesome!

Thanks also to Scott David Daniels for pointing out that the problem
with the exceptions was just that the messages needed to be str instead
of unicode.

-Mike


From peter at somewhere.com  Tue Oct 12 06:14:55 2004
From: peter at somewhere.com (Peter Maas)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:14:55 +0200
Subject: py2exe
In-Reply-To: <416ba9da$0$9584$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <416ba9da$0$9584$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <ckgatq$9cr$1@swifty.westend.com>

merman schrieb:
> can I also use py2exe (T. Hellers tool) in a "generic" way?
> In other words: can I made Perl-Executables too?

http://www.indigostar.com (perl2exe)

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas,  M+R Infosysteme,  D-52070 Aachen,  Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Oct 22 02:56:09 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:56:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <loom.20041022T085133-822@post.gmane.org>

Jeremy Bowers <jerf <at> jerf.org> writes:

> (This was one of the things that
> finally broke me of the strong typing inculcation I received in school;
> strong typing, considered as a scientific theory (something like "Large
> programs must be strongly typed, or they will cease working and
> maintenance will become impossible"), made claims about programs that
> proved to be wrong.

You probably meant "static typing" throughout this email when you said "strong 
typing".  Python *is* strongly typed -- you can tell the type of any object at 
runtime.  Python is not statically typed -- any name can be bound to any type 
of object, so nothing is checked at "compile time".

Steve





From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 17 10:14:00 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:14:00 -0400
Subject: Binding in Python
In-Reply-To: <p9tcd.150344$35.7365865@news4.tin.it>
References: <p9tcd.150344$35.7365865@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <jKGdnanYx4O74-_cRVn-iA@powergate.ca>

Riccardo Rossi wrote:
> Hi all!
> 
> Can anyone tell me what are the binding strategies of this language? How 
> does the binding works in Python?

The term "binding" does not have a precise meaning.

Please explain, preferably with examples or reference to the
feature in other languages with which we are likely to be
familiar, what _you_ mean by "binding".

-Peter


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Mon Oct 25 11:55:47 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:55:47 +0100
Subject: Getting errors from popen in Windows
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B58@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[ChrisH]
| Is there a way in python to run a DOS command and have it 
| return any errors that occur? I've 
| tried some of the different versions of peopen as well as the 
| code listed below and none of 
| them give me the error that is displayed when I run the 
| command from a prompt.
| 
| (Python 2.3, win32all, Windows NT/2K/XP)
| 
| strExec = 'copy "z:\MS Exchange Settings.NK2" 
| "%USERPROFILE%\Application Data\Microsoft
| \Outlook\"'

[... snip rest of code ...]

I'll leave others to comment on popen; I would just point
out that there are easier and perhaps more rubust ways to
copy a file under Win32. Perhaps you were just using this
as a simple example, in which case ignore this post. But
just in case, check out copyfile in the shutil module, or
CopyFile in win32file.

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
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From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 13 08:11:38 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:11:38 GMT
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
References: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gljwcn.hu8qmfo9di8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416c7e11.110043444@news.oz.net>
	<1gllabm.igadlt1xcmxgqN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416cfd61.142635999@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <416d0f0d.147159414@news.oz.net>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:52:57 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>
>NBD, but perhaps the order change is a version difference?
>Not that the OP was asking any of this ;-)
Posted before recalling that the order difference showed up
on my system between old-style and new-style, both on 2.3.2,
so at least what I saw is not a version difference.

Someplace in classobject vs typeobject or such?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct 29 04:43:51 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:43:51 GMT
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <2ue65gF28i9f7U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <6f402501.0410270331.6f0d5fd6@posting.google.com>
	<97-dnSRAYPEwPuLcRVn-rA@rogers.com>
	<6f402501.0410271123.5a7e68d9@posting.google.com>
	<N9GdnbEBX4-F1B3cRVn-rw@rogers.com> <2ue65gF28i9f7U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bpngd.5599$kM.3046@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Michael Foord:
>>> library modules to do a particular job. Using the GPL means someone is
>>> unable to use your work in a business setting.

Joachim Bowman wrote:
> So does the GNU GPL.  Freedom/Open Source and commercial use are two 
> orthogonal concepts.  The two don't interfere in any way.

It so nice to organize things.  Each file is in a directory,
each book on a shelf, each concept on its own axis.  The
Aristotelian logic of one or the other.

But life is full of platypuses.  That's what makes things
messy, fun, frustrating, and interesting.

"Freedom/Open Source" isn't a single dimension.  How can it be
when licenses can be both free and mutually exclusionary?  (See
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLIncompatibleLicenses )

Odds are good you can find three licenses A, B, and C such that
A is compatible with B is compatible with C, but where A is not
compatible with C.  A messy space indeed!


Let B be a point in business space.  Let L be a point in the
software licensing space.  The statement "don't interfere in any way"
means that for all B and all L there is a point (B, L) which is
in (business space x licensing space).

That's provably false - choose B = "a company making money selling
binaries but not also distributing source".  Those exist.  Let
L = "a library licensed under the GPL."  Those also exist.  Suppose
company B wanted to include that library as part of the software.
Is (B, L) a point in business space x software licensing space?

The answer of course is no, so we're left with one or more of the
following:
   1. B and L are not orthogonal (I'm backing this one ;)
   2. B is not a valid point in business space (the way GNU would
       like it to be)
   3. L is not a valid point in licensing space (some others would
       like this to be true)
   4. there's another definition of "don't interefere in any way"
   5. using a dimensional space metaphor doesn't make sense (but
       you believe otherwise)
   6. I'm missing some other reason

Let's assume #5 and #6.  I can't think of more reasonable way
to handle #4 under the dimensional metaphor.  From observation
I see that #2 and #3 do exist.  So I'm left concluding that
there is at least one business model which conflicts with at
least one license model.


In other words, I disagree.

But as it turns out, you actually used the phrase "commercial
use" and not "business setting" in your reply.  You've reduced
the high-dimensional "business space" down to a single
binary descriptor, "commercial."

You said you think of the high-dimensional "software license
space" as a single dimension, and your example implies
you think of it as also being binary dimension (is/is not free).

In that restricted, projected subspace then your argument works.
You successfully enumerated all four possibilities in that
narrow view of things.  It just not what the original poster
said.

Life is complex.  Organization helps understanding.  Toy
models give clarity.  But take away an essential complexity
and the toy is a curiosity only; the platypus removed.

Though I think echidnas look cuter than platypuses and are
just as interesting.


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Oct 16 18:02:02 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:02:02 -0500
Subject: pyc files located elsewhere?
In-Reply-To: <20041016140850.09E4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <mailman.5052.1097941983.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<X7ednccGLPpVxuzcRVn-3A@powergate.ca>
	<20041016140850.09E4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <16753.39514.843538.833168@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> (Is what you describe really possible?  I've never heard of it.)

    Josiah> I know that importing from a non-writable location disables
    Josiah> writing of pyc files (zip imports, etc.), and I am fairly
    Josiah> certain it can be done with an import hook, though never having
    Josiah> need for it, I've never tried.

Please have a look at PEP 304.  Feedback welcome.

Skip


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Mon Oct 25 16:01:02 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:01:02 -0700
Subject: Compiling to a library, instead of an executable?
In-Reply-To: <2004102422013016807%dimator@gmailcom>
References: <2004102422013016807%dimator@gmailcom>
Message-ID: <cljm1u$qt7$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Dimi Shahbaz wrote:
> Hi,
> I've seen a few tools to create standalone executables from python 
> scripts (py2exe, cx Freeze).  My question is, has anyone created a tool 
> to create standalone libraries (.a, .so, .dll) from python scripts?  I'd 
> like to create a library, written in python, and compile it for other 
> programs (in C, et al) to link with.  I wouldn''t mind bundling 
> python23.dll with it.

You want Elmer.

http://elmer.sourceforge.net

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 05:35:03 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:35:03 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
	<1sRcd.157683$35.7727090@news4.tin.it>
	<1098114929.397931.92290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<cl0umu$kdm$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<cl0v8o$8a4$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<mailman.5126.1098122988.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl11jf$r9$1@fred.mathworks.com>
	<mailman.5131.1098126770.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glvhih.mackqd12vhs62N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cl1a84$4tk$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <1glwh14.11nk6427up7a6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ...
> > C is also very simple, just like Python: C always does pass by value.
> > I.e., C always does implicit copy (on assignment or parameter passing),
> > just like Python never does.
> 
> > So in C you ask explicitly when you want a reference (pointer) instead,
> > e.g. with &foo -- in Python you ask explicitly when you want a copy
> > instead, e.g. with copy.copy(foo).  Two simple language, at opposite
> > ends of the semantics scale, but each consistent and clean.  (Python
> > matches 4.5 of the 5 points which define "the spirit of C" according to
> > the latter's Standard's preface...!-).
> 
> This is misleading.  copy.copy does a smart, data-structure-aware copy

I imagine you mean something like "type-aware" here.  But I don't see
anything misleading here, nevertheless.

> (not a deep copy, but exactly what copy.copy does differs among
> datatypes).  Parameter passing isn't about data structures; it's about

Some languages do use different parameter passing conventions depending
on the types involved, actually; I believe C# is an example.  Most
languages do fortunately eschew such complications.

> what an assignment statement means when you're assigning to a formal
> parameter within a function (also possibly about some other things

...which in turn depends, also, on what assignment statements mean *in
general*.  In C, a=b means (assuming the same datatype on both sides;
you can't ignore datatypes in C...): copy the bits that are in the "box"
named b, into the "box" named a.  In Python, a=b means: attach the "tag"
a, to the same object to which the "tag" b is also attached right now.

The distinction is put in sharper evidence for some datatypes than for
others -- clearest with a C struct:

typedef struct {
    int x, y;
} xy;
xy a = {1, 2};
xy b = {3, 4};

wrt a roughly equivalent Python class

class xy:
    def __init__(self, x, y): self.x, self.y = x, y
a = xy(1, 2)
b = xy(3, 4)

After a=b followed by b.x=5, what's a.x?  In C, it's still 3, because
the assignment was a copy of b's bits at that time; in Python, it's 5,
because the assignment just made names a and b refer to the same object.

And exactly the same thing applies if you have a function, and pass b in
as its actual argument:

void foo(xy c) { c.x = 6; }

vs, in Python:

def foo(c): c.x = 6

once you call foo(b), in each language, it's just as if there had been
an assignment c=b by the rules of the respective language, followed by
the c.x=6 part.  Just like above, in C b.x is unaffected (because the
assignment, resp. the parameter passing, did a copy); just like above,
in Python b.x is now 6 (because the assignment, resp. the parameter
passing, just gave one more name to the same object, without copies).

The two languages behave exactly the same if a function assigns to a
formal parameter's name, rather than (e.g.) to a field thereof:

void bar(xy d) { xy e = {7,8}; d = e; }

vs

def bar(d): d = xy(7, 8)

in each language, after you call bar(b), the value of b is totally
unaffected by the fact that the function assigns to its formal argument;
just like it would be by two back to back assignments such as
    d = b;
    d = e;
no effect on the value of b in either language.

> like lazy evaluation), for example whether the argument list is a
> declaration of new variables or just a set of aliases for other
> pre-existing values (I don't say "variables" here because the value
> passed in may be anonymous).

That concept of "alias" is in fact somewhat alien to both C and Python.
A "new variable" in C is a new box where bits may be copied; a "new
variable" in C is a new label which can attached to objects.

Thus, passing arguments in each language has exactly the same effect as,
in the same language, having a bunch of new variables -- which in C
means a bunch of new boxes filled with bits (copied) from somewhere, in
Python means a bunch of new labels attached to objects from somewhere.

That's very different from Fortran, where such "aliasing" is indeed the
norm in parameter passing (but not in assignment; differently from C and
Python, Fortran has very different semantics for assignment and
parameter passing).  In that case, a subroutine assigning to the
barename of one of its formal arguments can indeed affect the caller,
iff the caller had passed in a variable (or array item) as the actual
argument corresponding.  It need not be call by reference (at least not
as far back as Fortran IV): the language was quite careful to constrain
the valid operations so that an implementation was free to either use a
reference _OR_ copy values on subroutine entry and exit, for
optimization purposes.  Most Fortran programmers didn't really
understand that part very well, but here's an example:

SUBROUTINE INCBOTH(I, J)
I = I + 1
J = J + 2
END

this is valid Fortran.  However, CALL INCBOTH(MU,MU) is invalid (though
barely any compiler/linker could diagnose this!) and the effects on MU
are undefined.  In practice all compilers I've used would increment MU
by 3, but it would be perfectly valid to increment it by just 1 _or_ 2
(the compiler can choose to copy MU to I and J on entry, and I and J to
MU on exit, in either order) or even, I believe, to crash the program.

((These constraints on the programmer mean more freedom for the compiler
to optimize the snot out of the code, and that was traditionally a prime
consideration in Fortran.  A hypothetical example where using
value/return might optimize things would be with a machine full of
registers and addressability only of memory, not of registers, and
perhaps some mechanism such as sliding register windows to optimize
parameter passing in registers.  If Fortran HAD to use pass-by-reference
it could not optimize things by keeping all of MU, I and J in registers
(as we assumed registers to not be addressable -- most machines are that
way, though I recall some delightful exceptions where "registers" in
fact had addresses and could thus be used fully interchangeably with
memory locations, such as some HP and TI minicomputers); with the
ability to pass by copy-on-entry, copy-on-exit, everything can stay in
registers here, just as it could for a pass-by-value language.))

So, back to our muttons, I don't see anything misleading about anything
I said.  Terminology apart, it doesn't seem we have disagreements; but
terminology does have some importance, and trying to shoehorn not fully
appropriate terminology may help confuse somebody's thinking, at times.


Alex


From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Mon Oct 18 15:20:37 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:20:37 +0200
Subject: Python in HTAs
References: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
	<417308f9$0$8656$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<4989f73b.0410180910.2274a350@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41742610$0$28793$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

But I had register Python from a long time ; and python-part(s) are...
ignored.
During this time, I continue my developments with COM...

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau








From larsmtl at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 17:18:26 2004
From: larsmtl at yahoo.com (LarsenMTL)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 14:18:26 -0700
Subject: Python CGI - outputting to textarea
Message-ID: <99351542.0410111318.533188f0@posting.google.com>

I have a long running python cgi which in the end returns a link to a
pdf file. While it runs it generates a log that uses stdout right into
the html.  I use the sys.stdout.flush() to make this log output
relatively realtime.

The log, however, has grown too long.  I wish to output it instead
into a textarea.  I thought I could just use the textarea tags before
the output starts.  This works, but my output is no longer "real time"
even with the flush (it waits till I close the textarea tag to display
it).  Anyone know a method how I can make it write to the textarea as
it goes?

Thanks,

Mark


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Oct 29 14:09:30 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:09:30 -0400
Subject: Interface of the set classes
References: <41824654$0$1779$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <clu10i$adv$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Pierre Barbier de Reuille" <pierre.barbier at cirad.fr> wrote in message 
news:41824654$0$1779$636a15ce at news.free.fr...
> For me, sets are first sequences.

In mathematics, a set is determined by its members.  Period.  The concept 
'ordered set' -- a set with an order relation on its members, where a 
relation is a set of ordered pairs -- is a specialization (and 
complexification) of the concept 'set'.  If some other language misuses 
'set' to mean 'ordered set', you have been done a disservice by that 
language.

Terry J. Reedy





From f.geiger at vol.at  Sun Oct 10 08:36:28 2004
From: f.geiger at vol.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:36:28 +0200
Subject: [OT] Where to host an open source project? Sourceforge? Who offers
	Subversion already?
Message-ID: <ckd61r$i4m$1@newshispeed.ch>

I'm considering going open source with a Python project of mine. Where
should I host the project best? I've often read people complaining about
Sourceforge, performance-wise at most. Are there alternatives?

I never could get acquainted with CVS. I like Suberversion, however, and am
using it now instead of SourceSafe (yep, I'm on Windows).

So the hoster should be able to offer access to a Subversion server.

I guess, most of you are on Sourceforge. So it cannot be that bad, right?
Are they known to plan to offer Subversion access?

Hmm, probably I had better asked, "where should I start my journey best?".

Any hint's welcome.

Many thanks and kind regards
Franz GEIGER




From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Oct 11 06:33:05 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 10:33:05 GMT
Subject: String replace with return value?
References: <8Fsad.11445$nj.10631@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns957F7501AB37Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Roose wrote:

> How can I do a "".replace operation which tells me if anything was 
> actually replaced?
> 
> Right now I am doing something like:
> 
> if searchTerm in text:
>      text = text.replace( searchTerm, 'other' )

Try:

newtext = oldtext.replace(searchTerm, 'other')
if newtext is oldtext:
    	print "nothing changed"
else:
    	print "modified text"

You can almost certainly get away with using 'is' here since if replace 
doesn't replace anything it simply returns the original string (this is an 
implementation detail though, I don't know that there is a cast iron 
guarantee that a future implementation won't copy the string if it hasn't 
changed, although it would be pretty perverse if it did.)


From jerf at jerf.org  Sat Oct 30 14:05:26 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:05:26 GMT
Subject: [wx] Simple image editor
References: <clvmtr$8vl$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.30.19.05.37.539206@jerf.org>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:28:35 +0200, Michele Petrazzo wrote:

> Please don't tell me to read the GIMP's source :).

Why read GIMP's source when you can use it?

Can you shell out your manipulations, and then just take a changed version
of the image back in?

Of course, any image editor will work then, too.

Maybe not, I don't know your needs. But it is worth thinking about. Image
editors are in the class of applications that you should go to great
lengths to avoid rewriting. To get anything beyond the Paint that shipped
with Windows 3.1 is a major effort, plus unless you really, really know
your users don't want anything but primitive text overlays, you're asking
for an infinite amount of feature requests to add things that other image
editors already have. Plus, the naive implementations of things like
"undo" eat memory for lunch.

Take a look at the *size* of the GIMP, even without the filter plugins.
Are you sure you want to take that job on? Even a subset can get massive,
fast.



From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Thu Oct  7 15:13:41 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:13:41 -0400
Subject: Inline returning of function objects
Message-ID: <41659565.3080500@kzoo.edu>

I've been finding more and more crazy stuff that you can do in Python, 
and I was curious if it could handle this (it couldn't):

def foo(x):
    return def bar(y):
       pass

I was wondering why there's support for this for lambda functions but 
not normal functions. I tried variations in the syntax like surrounding 
the function definition with parenthesis but none worked.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 15:18:40 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:18:40 +0200
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4edc17eb.0410052233.16505629@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4427.1097075425.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl90d9.pdp4wylj1ihkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4435.1097083709.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl95vz.fq3m73hwtom8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> > Personally, I _like_ using 'class' statements to make classes and 'def'
> > statements to make functions; I don't see either as hacks.  Messing with
   ...
> I'm not sure if I understood what you meant. My common sense tells me
> that the class-inside-a-def is more acceptable, given all the black
> magic that we had to go through to be able to re-execute the class

Yep, sounds about right.

> statement. But the function above really returns a class... which is
> 'wrong', but many counts (although nothing stops it from happening,

Ah, that's our disagreement, I guess.  I consider Factory a perfectly
sensible and respectable design pattern, and thus I see nothing wrong a
function making and returning a new object (class or otherwise).

> after all, classes are objects pretty much like any other object,
> albeit with the special ability to build new objects instances).

Any callable can build whatever kind of objects it wants -- class
objects have no "special ability" in this regard.  Where class objects
are unique is in the automatic chain of delegation -- instance to class
to bases -- when an attribute is being looked up.


> On the other hand, the re-execute-class-statement trick is a real hack
> -- specially when seen from the inside. However, if everything is
> clearly hidden in a metaclass (and I mean, a *real* metaclass, not a
> def __metaclass__()); better yet, if the metaclass itself is hidden in
> a base class; what do you think is cleaner?

I think that, when feasible, making classes by executing a class
statement (and functions by executing a def statement) is cleanest.
If you can get substantial added value using type(....) calls or
new.function(...) calls or whatever, so be it, of course -- if you NEED
to get to that level, so be it, there's nothing sinful or bad about it,
it may just be a tad harder to understand and maintain... no big deal,
not comparable to (e.g.) building up a string and then doing 'exec' on
it (THAT _is_ sinful and bad and maybe will make Guido cry...;-).


> a) class-inside-a-def
> 
> def BuildTemplate(<template parameters>)
>     class TemplateClass(...):
>         ...
>     return TemplateClass
> T = BuildTemplate(<params>)

Quite clean, IMHO, if it does all you need.


> b) re-exec-class
> 
> # GenericTemplate is a metaclass-enabled ancestor
> from template import GenericTemplate
> class TemplateClass(GenericTemplate):
>         ...
> 
> T = TemplateClass.NewTemplate(<params>)

To be honest I never really understood why you liked that one so much,
apart from the fascinating possibilities it offers for delving into
normally ignored details of 'class' statements' execution;-)

Seriously: classes have one incredible syntax advantage when you expose
them to users... users who write class statements get to write any gd
code they like in a context where every localname created ends up in a
dict, then your metaclass gets to process the dict, etc, etc.  In
comparison, functions are fine, with keyword parameters, for the
equivalent of assignment statements, i.e.,

class foo(subletWayToGetMetaclassOmega):
    bar = 23

and

foo = factoryFunctionOmega(bar=23)

are roughly equivalent; but as soon as the body of 'class foo' starts
having def statements, class statements, loops, etc, the factory
function has a hard time keeping up.  This syntax advantage has little
to do with the *intended* semantics of 'class' vs function calls, and is
the root of most "metaclass abuse" I've seen (and perpetrated -- though
not in production code...).

But it doesn't seem to be what you're after, and a couple days ago I saw
somebody else asking about a metaclass to be called directly (where a
class statement _was_ clearly what they needed, IMHO), so there must be
something more going on here... I think I'll nickname it "class
struggle"... many people DO seem to be struggling with classes, these
days...


> c) neither of the above -- there must be a better way to do it.

...must there...?  Maybe I'm being short-sighted (wouldn't be the first
time), but I can't see.  If you could have your heart's desire, within
the general framework of Python, how WOULD you code what you're after
(which I'm still not entirely clear about)?  I mean, how would it look
to the user -- how it looks like _inside_ is a relatively minor issue...


Alex


From fakeaddress at nowhere.org  Sun Oct 10 00:45:52 2004
From: fakeaddress at nowhere.org (Bryan Olson)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 04:45:52 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <7xoejdvinv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
	<7xoejdvinv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <483ad.27373$QJ3.22451@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
 >
 > Bryan Olson writes:
 >>So what's the solution?  A global-interpreter-lock works; that's
 >>what Python has now; but we lose much of the power of multi-
 >>processing systems.   We could give every object its own lock,
 >>but the locking overhead would defeat the purpose (and inter-
 >>object conditions can be trickier than they might look).
 >
 > Giving every object its own lock is basically what Java does.  Is it
 > really so bad, if done right?  Acquiring or releasing the lock can be
 > just one CPU instruction on most reasonable processors.  I've been
 > wondering about this for a while.

I'm not really up-to-date on modern multi-processor support.
Back in grad school I read some papers on cache coherence, and I
don't know how well the problems have been solved.  The issue
was that a single processor can support a one-instruction lock
(in the usual no-contention case) simply by supplying an
uninterruptable read-and-update instruction, but on a multi-
processor, all the processors have respect the lock.


-- 
--Bryan


From esj at harvee.org  Mon Oct 18 08:59:33 2004
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:59:33 -0400
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410180045.20947e5a@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.5093.1098051158.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6f402501.0410180045.20947e5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4173BE35.9070500@harvee.org>

Michael Foord wrote:
> Config file reading is an area where python is 'well served' with
> various options.
> For sheer simplicty of use you can't beat my ConfigObj. It reads the
> file and presents the values as a dictionary (keyed by keyword of
> course). It supports writing hte file as well. The trouble with with
> using attribute names is that you will have problems with keywords
> that are reserved - like 'print' and 'pass'.

well served yes but they are all basically the same.  For camram, I 
needed a different configuration file service and I put a wrapper around 
the stock with a configuration file utility.

Configuration data is composite of three data sources, global, shadow, 
and user.  In global are the system defaults, shadow contains local 
system overrides, and user contains user specific overrides.  the global 
configuration file contains the patterns describing the locations of the 
shadow and user configuration files.

I was experimenting with some other features based on how people might 
want to use and anti-spam system, I added the ability for the user to 
delegate or merge certain aspects of their profile of another user.

I will admit it's a bit of a dogs breakfast because I've made so many 
passes and tried out a bunch of different things over the past year. 
One of these days I'll go back over it and simplify things.

---eric



From claird at lairds.us  Wed Oct 27 15:08:04 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:08:04 GMT
Subject: scripting languages vs statically compiled ones
References: <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rb6552-1ea.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.5578.1098897981.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Ajay  <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote:
>hi!
>
>is there an authoritative source on the performance of scripting languages
>such as python vs. something like java, c, c++.
>
>its for a report, so it would be awesome if i could quote some well-known
>authority on this.
			.
			.
			.
Look for "premature optimization" in
<URL: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1gly5qo.1l15w5scsv08vN%25aleaxit%40yahoo.com >
and
<URL: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%25aleaxit%40yahoo.com >



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 04:42:10 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:42:10 +0200
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl8dkd.1mk43di1xi6v0dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:

> As part of a pet project of mine, I needed to find a way to re-execute
> a class declaration[1]. The reason behind it was simple: the class

If you start calling it 'class statement' I may read and perhaps help
with the rest of your post, but since I consider calling 'declaration'
something that is no more and no less than an executable statement an
excellent way to try and confuse the issues (by leading many readers to
expect something completely different from the reality), I'm going to
personally boycott any post deliberately perpetrating such wilful use of
language to confuse readers, and I urge the same course of action on
anybody who cares about clarity, understanding and communication.


Alex


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Oct 18 12:11:35 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:11:35 +0200
Subject: unsigned char array -> buffer
References: <cl0pj4$pj9$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cl0pvi$dt3$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Henri Schomaecker wrote:
> as I already wrote, I'm trying to get image binary data into a var holding
> an unsigned char string and then print it directly to the browser.
> I now already did some tries with an array and now found the buffer()
> function. - I thought I would have the solution now and also changed
> stdout to O_BINARY, but still I don't get the data right:
> 
> 8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------
> 
> imgObj = win32com.client.Dispatch("mine.imgsender")
> myImgData = buffer(imgObj.getImgData())
> 
> msvcrt.setmode(sys.stdout.fileno(), os.O_BINARY)
> sys.stdout.write(myImgData)
> 
> 8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------
> 
> I'm really lost and would be very thankful if someone could help me with
> that.

That snipplet of code is totally useless, as none of us has your custom
mine.imgsender lying around his harddisk, so we can't possibly know what
data you get, let alone what data you want.

So if you provided us with the actual data that is returned by getImgData we
might be able to help.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Oct 25 09:04:47 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:04:47 +0200
Subject: Is this group for newbies?
References: <DINed.193222$as2.133033@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.25.13.04.47.200727@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:02:53 -0400 schrieb ed18hg:

> I'm looking for a Python newbie group. I don't want to get flamed by asking 
> in the wrong place.

Hi ed18hg,

Yes, this newsgroup is for newbies, too.

Please provide detailed information in your questions.

Regards,
 Thomas



From pynode at centrum.cz  Thu Oct 28 11:23:45 2004
From: pynode at centrum.cz (MJR)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 08:23:45 -0700
Subject: Real-time graphs
Message-ID: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>

Hi,
just wondering what options I would have if I wanted to use Python to
produce real-time graphs. Is there any plotting package suitable for
this.

Thanks,
Mike


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct 15 13:34:35 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:34:35 GMT
Subject: operation with strings and numbers
In-Reply-To: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it>
References: <ckougg$f7l$1@news.flashnet.it>
Message-ID: <LSTbd.4931$gy1.3895@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Hellas wrote:
> the resulted is "_11,278" where "_" is a space
> I must to change the formatting of this number in "011278" but I don't known 
> what to do

So you want to replace the any space with a '0' and get rid
of the ',' (in this case the decimal sign because you're
using an Italian locale, as compared to my US use of '.')

Try this

 >>> s = " 11,278"
 >>> s.replace(" ", "0")
'011,278'
 >>> s.replace(" ", "0").replace(",", "")
'011278'
 >>>

Another solution is to use the 'zfill' method of strings.

 >>> s = "%6.3f" % p
 >>> s
'11.378'
 >>> s.replace(".", "").zfill(6)
'011378'
 >>>

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 18:11:17 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 15:11:17 -0700
Subject: Database and Interface for Python
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410071411.17321f9a@posting.google.com>

I'm writing a couple of modules that store information about user
'behaviour'. E.g. a user accesses a certain page of a website at a
certain date-time with a certain referrer.

I need to analyse this information by different criteria. E.g. How
many users accessed the website between August 5th and August 12th,
listed by refferer !! etc It would be great to have a database engine
where I could ask these questions in just a couple of queries, rather
than having to implement all the sort/analyse functions myself.

I guess this is as bad a time as anyto start to learn to use a
database !! So I look on google and the situation is a little unclear.
I can use the database API that will give me a 'consistent
interface'... but I still need a database engine installed. e.g.
MySQL. Not only that but I need a python interface to that engine that
the database API can use ? (or I can just directly use the python
binding for whichever database I pick ?).

I think the web server I use will allow MySQL databases, so if I
install it on my windoze box and install the MySQLdb python module
then I'm well away....


Have I got it right ? Can I do 'date range' queries using MySQL,
MySQLdb and the Python database API ?

Regards,


Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 13 03:48:57 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:48:57 +0200
Subject: passing a socket to a spawned process.
References: <5d00592f.0410110923.2bb2b1ea@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4718.1097519079.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glkjad.ckwu451mkf5mxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Marcos Dione <mdione at grulic.org.ar> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 10:23:27AM -0700, Mike M wrote:
> > Is it possible?  In the parent process, I have a socket that binds,
> > listens and then accepts new connections (which creates new sockets in
> > the process).  I want to be able to pass some of these new sockets to
> > a spawned process.  Is it possible, and if so how?
> 
>   just accept() before fork()'ing. the socket will be cloned. then close the
> socket on the parent, unless needed.

Unfortunately I believe that's platform-dependent.  Specifically: your
suggestion should work on any sensible operating system... BUT a tad
over 50% of Python programs are estimated to run on Windows, and, on
THAT platform, I know your idea can't work (no fork!) and I don't know
how to answer the OP's question (except by suggesting he move, if
feasible, to any sensible platform -- any BUT Wind0ws...!-).


Alex


From vineeth at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 10:01:50 2004
From: vineeth at gmail.com (Vineeth S)
Date: 3 Oct 2004 07:01:50 -0700
Subject: cgi long running jobs
Message-ID: <383854e0.0410030601.59ddfd34@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I did post this to the tutor list at python.org but there were no
replies.

I have a web app set up, it is one long job and goes on for about 20
or 30 seconds. When the request comes in, I throw a "please wait", set
the job on its way, and want to periodically update the "please wait"
thrown.

What I tried initially was a client-pull, where with the first "please
wait" I would send a refresh header with a flag as parameter, and then
use that flag to check for completion, else send a new "please wait
<blah>". This did not work, I am guessing, because the request and the
subsequent process has been tied to that session, am I correct ?

Going by that reasoning, I tried a fork-exec to run the long job, and
periodically check for completion from the parent. This does not work
either, and this has foxed me. Is it because fork-exec in the cgi
context has some other behaviour ?

Or, is there some other way I should be doing this ?

Regards and TIA
Vineeth


From behrens at takenet.de  Tue Oct  5 12:30:47 2004
From: behrens at takenet.de (Joerg Behrens)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:30:47 +0200
Subject: compiling using native compiler
References: <95650bb5.0410050819.2f34f323@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2sg0eoF1falepU1@uni-berlin.de>


"SS" <sridhara at yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:95650bb5.0410050819.2f34f323 at posting.google.com...
> When I try to compile python 2.3.4 using SGI's native compiler
> ./configure --without-gcc
> followed by
> make
>
> I get error
> make
>          c++   -o python \
>                         Modules/python.o \
>                         libpython2.3.a -ldl  -lpthread -lmpc   -lm
> ld32: WARNING 84 : /usr/lib32/libdl.so is not used for resolving any
symbol.
> ld32: FATAL   9  : I/O error (-lmpc): No such file or directory
> collect2: ld returned 32 exit status
> *** Error code 1 (bu21)
>
> but I see it in /usr/lib
>
> ls -l /usr/lib/mpc
> -rwxrwxr-x    1 root     sys       598996 May 20 17:10 /usr/lib/mpc

The libraries in usr/lib are o32. You need n32 libs whichs comes from
/usr/lib32  or a specified directory -L/usr/my/libs/are/here

You can found a Irix python binary tardist compiled with MipsPro under
http://www.nekochan.net/downloads/Nekoware/beta/neko_python-2.3.4.tardist
The package also contains Build instrucktion in the release notes.

Also take noticed to
http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?t=3237&highlight=python

regards
Joerg Behrens

-- 
TakeNet GmbH   Mobil: 0171/60 57 963
D-97080 Wuerzburg  Tel: +49 931 903-2243
Alfred-Nobel-Stra?e 20  Fax: +49 931 903-3025




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Oct 22 14:39:12 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:39:12 -0300
Subject: IDLE--what are your experiences with it?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7AC5@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[Ivo Woltring]

#- Under windows I don't user IDLE but the PythonWin 2.3.3
#- I thinkt PythonWin (from ActiveState.com) is much better
#- It should be the one in the official distribution and not IDLE

I can use (and used) IDLE on Linux, and I guess it's not the case with
PythonWin.

The "Default IDE for Python" should be one that runs where Python runs (or
at least where the "Default GUI for Python" works).

.	Facundo
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From steve_erickson at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 13 12:51:16 2004
From: steve_erickson at hotmail.com (Steve Erickson)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 09:51:16 -0700
Subject: Problem with logging module
Message-ID: <78406811.0410130851.5cf73a75@posting.google.com>

I have a logger class that uses the Python logging module.  When I
call it within a program using the unittest module, I get one line in
the log file for the first test, two identical ones for the second,
etc.  I'm using local variables, which should go out of context with
each test.  Setting the 'propagate' property to False doesn't have any
affect.

import logging, os, signal, sys
from datetime import datetime

class Logger:
	def __init__(self, dir, name):
		self.dir = dir
		self.name = name

		self.logger = logging.getLogger(name)
		self.logger.propagate = False
		handler = logging.FileHandler(dir + '/' + name + '.log')
		self.logger.addHandler(handler)
		self.logger.setLevel(logging.INFO)

	def log(self, text):
		msg = datetime.utcnow().isoformat(' ') + ' ' + sys.argv[0] + ' -- '
+ text
		self.logger.info(msg)

import os, sys, unittest
import log

class Test(unittest.TestCase):
	
	def test_1(self):
		homedir = sys.path[0]
		logger = log.Logger(homedir, "test")
		logger.log("Test 1")

	def test_2(self):
		homedir = sys.path[0]
		logger = log.Logger(homedir, "test")
		logger.log("Test 2")
			
	def test_3(self):
		homedir = sys.path[0]
		logger = log.Logger(homedir, "test")
		logger.log("Test 3")
		
	def test_4(self):
		homedir = sys.path[0]
		logger = log.Logger(homedir, "test")
		logger.log("Test 4")
			
	def test_5(self):
		homedir = sys.path[0]
		logger = log.Logger(homedir, "test")
		logger.log("Test 5")

if __name__ == '__main__':
    unittest.main()

And the output file looks like:

2004-10-13 15:54:08.321112 test.py -- Test 1
2004-10-13 15:54:08.326594 test.py -- Test 2
2004-10-13 15:54:08.326594 test.py -- Test 2
2004-10-13 15:54:08.329742 test.py -- Test 3
2004-10-13 15:54:08.329742 test.py -- Test 3
2004-10-13 15:54:08.329742 test.py -- Test 3
2004-10-13 15:54:08.333411 test.py -- Test 4
2004-10-13 15:54:08.333411 test.py -- Test 4
2004-10-13 15:54:08.333411 test.py -- Test 4
2004-10-13 15:54:08.333411 test.py -- Test 4
2004-10-13 15:54:08.336997 test.py -- Test 5
2004-10-13 15:54:08.336997 test.py -- Test 5
2004-10-13 15:54:08.336997 test.py -- Test 5
2004-10-13 15:54:08.336997 test.py -- Test 5
2004-10-13 15:54:08.336997 test.py -- Test 5


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Oct  5 04:15:54 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:15:54 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4260.1096911748.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <41616B9B.1080009@fastmail.fm>	<20041004101511.FECD.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4260.1096911748.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41624f6f$0$17003$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Arich Chanachai wrote:
> Josiah Carlson wrote:
> 
(snip)
>> Python has no macro facilities.
>>
> Really?  I read that Python was just like Scheme in that it had macro 
> facilities.
> 
Where ?



From t-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Tue Oct 19 20:29:23 2004
From: t-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:29:23 +1300
Subject: reverse Jython
In-Reply-To: <ECBA357DDED63B4995F5C1F5CBE5B1E80126E9D4@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <ECBA357DDED63B4995F5C1F5CBE5B1E86C3786@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> PyPy, given the secret belief, will make a good project, on-going 
> project, collaboration project. The problem lies with the nature of a 
> thesis work or any academic project, what academics aims for is to 
> publish papers, get money and work on an area.

I am sure that you could publish papers about (suitable) work on PyPy.
Getting money is not likely to be as easy, but then academic funding is
never easy.  IMO, work isn't that relevant - you're unlikely to ever get
work that directly follows from thesis work; you look for work in similar
areas, where your expertise is still relevant.  There are bound to be PyPy
subprojects that would include such expertise.

> With a large project like PyPy, the dynamics of academic 
> research breaks down as it is real tough to carve a boundary of
> that you want to do.

It's possible to find a small part of any large project to work on,
otherwise they'd never get completed.

> For example, if I say (announce on usenet) that I am working import 
> mechanism, I will be hoping that nobody in this world will write the 
> same thing before I am done with my thesis. If someone did 
> that before me, then the chances of publishing my work drops to near
> zero.

This isn't really a problem in practice, unless you choose something that a
*lot* of people want to do, and indicate how you are likely to do it.  It's
no different than announcing what you are working on in a journal - that
doesn't mean that everyone that reads the journal article is going to try to
beat you to it.  I would think that PyPy is probably *safer* in this respect
than many other projects, particularly if you did tell the PyPy people that
you were planning to do this (I assume that they are both courteous and
uninterested in duplicating work).

I don't know enough about either PyPy or your interests/expertise to know
whether PyPy would be a good choice for you, but the above is not valid
reasoning.

=Tony Meyer



From jadethacker at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 22 21:07:12 2004
From: jadethacker at hotmail.com (mee-shell)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 18:07:12 -0700
Subject: Keydown Event and Focus Problem
Message-ID: <3d199ee1.0410221707.51c069d2@posting.google.com>

Hi, I am a python newbie.  I have created a tool for capturing the
screen shot.  I want to be able to do the screen capture with the
keydown event as well.  The tool worked fine when it first opened. 
However, if I keep the tool open, and open another window to do the
screen capture, the tool will lose its focus, and the keydown event
will not work anymore.  I wonder if any of you can help me to solve
this problem of how to get the focus back to the tool after opening a
new window?  Here is my code, and thank you in advance.


from wxPython.wx import *
import Image
import ImageGrab
import time, string, os
TITLE    = "wxPython test"

class MyFrame(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, parent, ID, title):
        wxFrame.__init__(self, parent, ID, title,
                         wxDefaultPosition,
			 wxSize(400, 25), style = wxSIMPLE_BORDER|wxSTAY_ON_TOP)

        #------------------------------------------------------------------
        # add a panel
        self.panelCNB = wxPanel(self, -1, wxPoint(15,0),
wxSize(200,25))
        self.panelCNB.SetOwnBackgroundColour(wxColor(99,148,214))
        screenButton = wxButton(self.panelCNB, 1000, 'screen shot')
        exitButton = wxButton(self.panelCNB, 5000, 'exit')

        buttonSizer = wxBoxSizer(wxHORIZONTAL)    
        buttonSizer.Add(screenButton, 0)
        buttonSizer.Add(exitButton, 0)
        self.panelCNB.SetSizer(buttonSizer)
        self.panelCNB.Layout()

        # Set the focus so that the panel gets key events
        self.SetFocus()

        # button event and key down
        EVT_BUTTON(screenButton, 1000, self.ScreenShot)
        EVT_BUTTON(exitButton, 5000, self.Exit)
        EVT_KEY_DOWN(self, self.OnKeyDown)
        
    def Exit(self, evt):
        self.Close(true)

    def ScreenShot(self, evt):
        filename = time.strftime("%Y%m%d%H%M%S", time.localtime()) 
        temp = filename + 'temp.jpg'
        thumbnail = filename + 'thumb.jpg'
        file = filename + '.jpg'
        
        ImageGrab.grab().save(temp)
        testimage=Image.open(temp)
        testimage.thumbnail((800,600),Image.ANTIALIAS)
        testimage.save(file)
        testimage.thumbnail((100,75),Image.ANTIALIAS)
        testimage.save(thumbnail)

    def OnKeyDown(self, evt):
        if evt.ControlDown() and evt.GetKeyCode() == ord('R'):
            self.SetFocus()
            self.ScreenShot(evt)

app = wxPySimpleApp()
frame = MyFrame(None, -1, TITLE)
frame.SetBackgroundColour(wxColor(99,148,214))
frame.Show(true)
app.MainLoop()


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Oct 19 14:38:06 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:38:06 -0600
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <20041019092604.0A65.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <mailman.5153.1098150302.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1098194866.552318.234710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<20041019092604.0A65.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <41755F0E.2050602@pythonapocrypha.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
>>Heh.  "Large" depends on a lot of things, particularly connectedness,
>>but I really can't picture 10k being large under any circumstances.
> 
> 
> Ok, so what is large?  How many orders of magnitude larger than 10k
> lines does it take for a piece of software to be large?  And why should
> you be the judge?

I think the only way to compare projects is from a user's or customer's 
perspective - what functionality the application provides & its scope. Any 
comparison involving lines of code or number of developers won't be reliable 
unless other factors (especially implementation language & libraries) are held 
semi-constant. For example, at one company I think the total was 1.1 or 1.2 
million lines of code (all C++ & about 60-70 developers), and yet I have trouble 
imagining how, if I could go back and do it again in Python, it'd take even 200k 
lines of code (and the riskier side of me feels it'd come in at under 100k - it 
just didn't _do_ a lot despite all that code!)

In that sense, a 10k Python app can be fairly large in terms of end-user 
functionality. For example, our main product where I work consists of *many* 
different custom servers, a full web-based administrative interface, an end-user 
web interface, a client application that does all sorts of interaction with the 
servers, and lots of database interaction. Add to this many internal tools, 
integration tools we provide to our customers, etc., and I would rate it overall 
as on the upper end of medium-sized projects, functionality-wise - not the 
largest I've worked on but well beyond any definition of small, and our plans 
for the next few quarters will definitely push it into the range of what I'd 
normally consider a large system. IIRC we're only in the 10k-20k for lines of 
Python code, plus a few modules here and there being C++.

Having said all that, I've found that competitors in our same space tend to have 
20-30 developers on the low end to over 100 on the high-end, while we have but a 
handful. We don't have quite the same breadth of functionality - at least not 
yet - but we generally make up for it by accounting for it architecturally but 
not adding it until a customer actually needs it (a sort of JIT approach to 
development). As such we've been able to compete head-to-head with others in the 
same sector. On more than one occasion I've wondered aloud how so many 
developers working for Competitor X can stay busy, and I can only imagine how 
many lines of code they're churning out - and yet, from a functionality 
perspective we're keeping pace. I also wonder how many hours a day they spend in 
meetings trying to coordinate everything. Ugh.

Back to the point at hand: a project using a higher-level language gets out of 
hand more slowly; if there were no other advantage it'd still be a "win" IMO 
because you encounter "big project" problems a lot later - and that's a huge 
benefit in and of itself.


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Wed Oct  6 13:35:07 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 13:35:07 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <20041005103121.ECDA.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <20041004222013.ECC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<41624541.4000107@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005103121.ECDA.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <41642CCB.1030503@cloudthunder.com>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

>>Weird, I guess that means I can manipulate them in this way.  Wonder if 
>>I can add keywords...
>>    
>>
>
>Nope, changing the contents of that module won't change the behavior of
>the interpretor.
>
>  
>
Argg, what's it for then I ask?

>  
>
>> <SNIP> <SNIP>
>
>
>If you want speed, pick another language.  Just kidding.
>
>In the case of speed, I find my brain speed to be a far more important
>resource than processor speed; which is where Python wins hands-down for
>me.  I can write good Python almost as fast as I can think and type,
>which gets me around 400 lines/day on average, or the equivalent of
>1600-4000 lines of C/C++ or Java.
>
>
>  
>
I found a ObjC-Python bridge, sounds like just what I want.  ObjC is 
better than C++ but just as fast (largely so, and in fact, one can mix 
C++ into ObjC [C, C++, and ObjC).  Now let me mix that with Python and 
I'm in heaven.  I hear there is a Lua-Python bridge too.  Lua is another 
of my coveted favorites.  It is alot like Python actually, more so than 
people tend to realize. 

>  
>
>>>Pyrex can compile a subset of Python to C.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Great, I'll check that out.  I guess that will allow me to extend the 
>>language in C.
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, though Pyrex is not required for C<->Python interaction.  You can
>do it all by hand, though SWIG and Boost Python seem to work pretty well.
>
>
>  
>
Can I use Pyrex with the Psycho JIT?

>>AWE-SOME Josiah.  I don't know how to thank you.  If I was **** off that 
>>might do you some good eh?  Alright then.  Thanks.
>>    
>>
>
>Firstborn?  I'm just kidding of course.  No, really, I plan on making my
>own babies someday; with cadaver parts and lightning - no, I mean
>naturally with my wife.  Serves me right for catching bits of http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368730/ today.
>
> - Josiah
>
>  
>
Ha!


From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Oct 22 19:31:47 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:31:47 +0200
Subject: [ANN] PySQLite 1.1
Message-ID: <20041022233147.GA22178@mylene.ghaering.de>

============
PySQLite 1.1
============


About this release:
===================

To let existing PySQLite users move to the SQLite3 engine, a created PySQLite
1.1. It supports all of the PySQLite 1.0 API, but uses the SQLite3 database
instead. The testsuite runs ok, and I did a few others checks, but now it needs
real-life exposure to find any remaining bugs that crawled in.


Different branches:
===================

- PySQLite 1.0 (SQLite 2.x) and PySQLite 1.1 (SQLite 3.x) will not gain
  additional features, but they will both be maintained as branches in the
  Subversion repository (http://initd.org/svn/initd/pysqlite/) and get
  bugfixes.

- I will now resume development of PySQLite 2.0, with the new API and created
  with SQLite3 in mind in the first place.


Changelog:
==========

- Hacked _sqlite.c to use the SQLite 3 API instead of the SQLite 2 one.

- The connection object now has a method insert_id() for better MySQLdb
  compatibility. If you want portable code that also works with current
  MySQLdb, however, then just use the .lastrowid attribute.


Place of development
====================

The development will move to initd.org step by step. For now, I only switched
from the Sourceforge CVS to initd.org Subversion. So file releases and bug
tracker can still be found on Sourceforge:

http://sf.net/projects/pysqlite


Known incompatibilites with PySQLite 1.0/SQLite 2
=================================================

- expressions/aggregates/functions will now always be of type TEXT, and thus
  strings, unless you use the "-- types" facility.

- The lowlevel method "sqlite_busy_timeout" is not supported any longer. The
  code that was in SQLite 2.x proper, had to be reimplemented in PySQLite, and
  the simple timeout case was implemented in the Python layer. This shouldn't
  bother you, unless you used the _sqlite module and used
  ""sqlite_busy_timeout" method. In this case, look into the PySQLite source
  code, and adapt my timeout code from busy_handler(), hidden in
  Connection.__init__.

- SQLite3 doesn't return a column name at all for columns, that don't come from
  database tables. Only adapted the test for now, later we can probably make it
  a little more intelligent using sqlite3_column_type().
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From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Sat Oct 16 09:18:09 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:18:09 +0100
Subject: get the name of lambda
In-Reply-To: <ckr59p$1epo$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
References: <ckr59p$1epo$1@dojima-n0.hi-ho.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <ckr72j$g2g$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

George Yoshida wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, is there any way to get the name of a
> lambda expression? Lambdas are anonymous functions, so it's a
> stupid idea to get the name of it. But if it's possible, how
> could I?
> 
> Let's take a simple example:
>   foo = lambda:None
> 
> foo.__name__(or foo.func_name) returns '<lambda>'.
> I'm looking for a way to return 'foo', instead of '<lambda>'.

But you already know that it is called 'foo'! :)

Anyway I don't think it has anything to do with lambda:

 >>> def x(): pass
...
 >>> y = x
 >>> y.__name__
'x'

IIRC, in 2.4 you can set the func_name attribute so you could set up a 
decorator to set the name for you. Or if you want to be fancy you could 
even set up a metaclass that automatically renames all the lambda 
functions it finds in a class.

But why?
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From has.temp2 at virgin.net  Fri Oct 22 16:32:34 2004
From: has.temp2 at virgin.net (has)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 13:32:34 -0700
Subject: Method Underscores? (and a 'solution')
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298@jerf.org>
	<1gm17go.1r662ynelfha7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<pan.2004.10.21.20.08.48.57327@jerf.org>
	<1gm1um6.zgqbbe8x559fN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <69cbbef2.0410221232.7df4d3bd@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gm1um6.zgqbbe8x559fN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:
> > I'm thinking I'll stick with Python.
> 
> Me, too.  But I understand how the "antiperl" (lrep?-) nearly
> punctuation free style of Applescript may be tempting -- if Applescript
> were cross-platform, it might perhaps make an even better beginners'
> language than Python (and I think that of few languages). 

Ahhhhh, don't say that!

While AppleScript code can be wonderfully readable even to folk with
absolutely no knowledge of the language, it's often an absolute swine
to write - stripping out all the punctuation and allowing applications
and osaxen (extensions) to add their own arbitrary keywords leaves the
language semantics appallingly ambiguous and confused.

The right approach, imo, would be to design a very conventional
scripting language, perhaps using a S-expression based [non-]syntax
that's easy to manipulate programmatically, and leave all the fancy
syntax, visual effects, beginner-friendly dumbing down, etc. to the
editing tools, which are much better placed to know what's really what
than any dumb text-based source code can ever be. Still a major
undertaking, but a better chance of pulling it off than.


> It doesn't scale up as well as Python, though, it appears to me.

Heh, more like AppleScript doesn't scale *at all*. :p

has


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Mon Oct 25 18:23:18 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:23:18 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <417d6e12$0$507$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<417d4f75$0$45524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<vKKdnUxHIOPNzODcRVn-2Q@powergate.ca>
	<417d5862$0$45532$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<m37jpevade.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<417d6770$0$513$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mai  <417d6e12$0$507$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1098742998.22370.80.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 21:20 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-10-25, Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> >>  Customer want's help with B.
> >> 
> >> Sales is _not_ going to let you tell Customer that you don't
> >> provide support for B. 
> >
> > You *do* provide support for B.  Just not *free* support.  Win-win ;) 
> 
> We tried that.  We even set up a system to take credit-card
> numbers over the phone.  It never got used. 
> 
> > Somehow I find your company sales department's failure to
> > abide by your own company's written agreements to be a
> > somewhat less than convincing argument against open source
> > <wink>.
> 
> I'm not arguing agains open source.  I'm arguing against the
> statement that releasing source code doesn't cost anything.

I'd argue just the opposite: if properly managed, providing source opens
the doors to additional revenue (e.g. assisting the customer with
modifications).  The fact that your company doesn't charge for this is
only a statement about your company, nothing else.  And to be quite
honest, perhaps that is a positive statement from your customer's point-
of-view.  I am not making a judgment about which approach is better,
only that it doesn't have to be that way.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 19:38:35 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:38:35 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4894.1097693029.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>	<slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<10mo6q66oi0kj04@corp.supernews.com>	<slrncmplmh.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>	<10mqr0rlj9h6r69@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4894.1097693029.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10mrev24df58k60@corp.supernews.com>

Clark C. Evans wrote:

>On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:58:14AM -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
>| Antoon Pardon wrote:
>| >I find it better to let the coder decide what makes sense in his program
>| >and what not.
>| 
>| Which is the Perl philosophy.  Many people seem quite happy with Perl 
>| because of this TMTOWTDI attitude; personally, I prefer Python's clarity 
>| and simplicity.
>
>On this list, that's damn near close to an ad hominem attack.
>  
>

Only if you choose to read it that way.  I pointed out that many people 
are happy with Perl, thus implying that the philosophy behind 
programming languages is largely a matter of taste.  It makes sense to 
choose a language whose design philosophy matches one's own.  From this 
and other previous discussions, it seems to me that Antoon Pardon has a 
number of disagreements with Python's design goals; that's fine, he's 
certainly entitled to his opinion, but there are others who *do* agree 
with Python's design goals.  ISTM that it would therefore be better, 
overall, for those who disagree with Pythonic philosophy to look for a 
different language that suits them better, and those who agree with 
Pythonic philosophy to keep using Python.  Trying to please everyone 
with a single language just isn't gonna work, nor should it be expected 
to.  Pointing this fact out has nothing to do with my personal opinions 
about Mr. Pardon, you, or anyone else.

>Your arguments thus far have been "I don't use it, thus it probably
>isn't useful, and therefore, no one should be able to use it."  It's
>an uninformed position and frankly, not very helpful.  
>  
>

No, my arguments thus far have been that, for almost every use for which 
lambdas are beneficial, there's another approach that is more consistent 
with core Pythonic philosophy that works almost as well or better.  
There's lots of things that I don't use but that I think are extremely 
useful (metaclasses, for instance).  Heck, I find metaclasses even more 
confusing than lambdas.... but I can also see that the *benefit* of 
metaclasses is greater, and is extremely difficult to match in more 
traditional Python.

I have tried to be clear that I'm not the most experienced or talented 
developer ever; I'm a journeyman at best, and I know it, and I'm 
perfectly willing to learn from others when the benefit of their 
teaching is clear.  But so far, the examples that I've been given for 
when lambda is useful are limited to "a programming style that uses CPS, 
deferred execution, or similar mechanism with heavy callbacks or passing 
functions," which may be something that you do a lot of but still sounds 
like a special case to me.  And even within that style, alternate 
solutions can provide most of the benefits that lambda does.

Oh, and I almost agree with you about list comprehensions -- they'd do 
just as well to be left out of Py3K, because they've been superseded by 
generator comprehensions. ;)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From scooterm at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 13 09:32:42 2004
From: scooterm at hotmail.com (valued customer)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 06:32:42 -0700
Subject: Completely INNOCENT Indentation question
Message-ID: <1b347673.0410130532.63199a4a@posting.google.com>

Is there a way in python to indicate that you want your 
"base level of indentation" to be four spaces instead of
zero?

As far as I know now, the only way is by introducing some
sort of language statement, for example:

if (1):
    ### begin python script
    foo = 1
    bar = 2
    print foo
    print bar

Is there a way to accomplish this without introducing
the "throwaway if statement" ??


From jbellis at gmail.com  Sat Oct 30 09:47:44 2004
From: jbellis at gmail.com (Jonathan  Ellis)
Date: 30 Oct 2004 06:47:44 -0700
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <HNedne3QcamF4h7cRVn-3g@speakeasy.net>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<HNedne3QcamF4h7cRVn-3g@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <1099144064.931829.257240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> The list of features for Python 3000 is described in PEP 3000,
> appropriately enough:
>
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-3000.html
>
> Most of the suggested changes remove redundancy, such as removing
> now-unneeded built-in functions and language features.

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but a quick google search
didn't find anything on moving [has|get|set]attr into attributes of
object.  Why wouldn't this be considered a Good Thing?  Just because
Ruby people would like it? :)

-Jonathan



From werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com  Fri Oct 29 06:47:41 2004
From: werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com (Werner Merkl)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:47:41 +0200
Subject: py2exe and CD-ROM ISO Level 1
In-Reply-To: <vfcu0xz0.fsf@python.net>
References: <clqm4e$jd8$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com> <654v3r4f.fsf@python.net>
	<clso6t$8mu$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com> <vfcu0xz0.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <clt74d$v33$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:

> Werner Merkl <werner_DOT_merkl_ at _fujitsu_DASH_siemens.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>I recompiled my application as a console program and got following
>>error message:
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
>>(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
>>
>>C:\>e:\AUTORUN.EXE
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "D:\PROGS\Python23\lib\site-packages\py2exe\boot_common.py",
>>   line 69, in ?
>>     import linecache
>>zipimport.ZipImportError: can't decompress data; zlib not available
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "AutoRun.py", line 54, in ?
>>zipimport.ZipImportError: can't decompress data; zlib not available
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>so I removed "compressed": 1, from setup.py and it WORKS!!!
> 
> 
> Great!
> 
> 
>>This seems to be a bug in py2exe ????
> 
> 
> The zlib module is the only one that is imported with the standard
> mechanism, since it is imported when a zipfile is added to sys.path.
> So, when it's filename has the wrong case the import will fail, and the
> only solution would be to set PYTHONCASEOK=1 before.  Unfortunately,
> this cannot be done somewhere in your Pythoncode, because it's too late
> then.  So, if you insist on 'compressed': 1 (but why would you?) the
> only solution that I see is to add
>      _putenv("PYTHONCASEOK=1");
> to the source file start.c, somewhere in the init_with_instance
> function, near line 135, and rebuild py2exe.
> 
> Thomas
Thank you very much for you explanation. I think, I will not use
compressed in future (normally there is enough space on a DVD or
even on a CD ;-).


regards
Werner


From twic at urchin.earth.li  Sat Oct  9 14:47:11 2004
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:47:11 +0100
Subject: proposals for having more fun with map
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.09.15.35.59.500366@jerf.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410091223580.27361-100000@urchin.earth.li>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.35.59.500366@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410091944190.21164-100000@urchin.earth.li>

On Sat, 9 Oct 2004, Jeremy Bowers wrote:

> On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 13:10:51 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote:
>
> > i've got a few proposals to do, in one way or another, with the map
> > builtin. i'd like to hear what people think.
>
> Most of your proposals are implementable today with a pure Python module,
> albeit with some subclasses of built-ins.

true - in fact, i wrote such a module to make sure that this was true!

the problem is the 'albeit'; for it all to work properly, it needs some
cooperation from core types, without users going round wrapping things all
the time. still, you can probably get at least 80% of it without doing
anything exciting.

> If you're serious about this, I'd suggest bundling all your suggestions
> into a module and pointing people at them to try them out, including
> several examples of the advantages you want to point out.
>
> The best argument for proposals is to try it and find it useful, and
> since yours are easy to implement, I'd suggest taking advantage of that.

well said. i'll bundle them up and stick them somewhere; it'll have to
wait for my broadband to come through, though ...

tom

-- 
I came here to chew gum and kick ass



From lutherrevisited at aol.com  Sun Oct 17 04:01:36 2004
From: lutherrevisited at aol.com (LutherRevisited)
Date: 17 Oct 2004 08:01:36 GMT
Subject: SMTP question
Message-ID: <20041017040136.18077.00005364@mb-m03.aol.com>

I'm trying to send an email this way:
msg = MIMEText(self.text_ctrl_1.GetValue())
        msg['Subject'] = sub
        msg['From'] = 'bossierbossman at yahoo.com'
        msg['To'] = to
        s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.mail.yahoo.com')
        s.set_debuglevel(1)
        s.connect()
        s.sendmail('bossierbossman at yahoo.com', to, msg)
        s.quit()
but this is not working at all.  Can someone point me in the right direction?


From bjourne at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 08:18:58 2004
From: bjourne at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?BJ=F6rn_Lindqvist?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:18:58 +0200
Subject: Using tuples correctly?
In-Reply-To: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F59@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F59@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <740c3aec04101105182523875e@mail.gmail.com>

> > So you could write stuff like this:
> >
> > return (r: 10, g: 20, b: 30) or maybe return (.r 10, .g 20, .b 30)
> 
> color = RGB(10, 20, 30)
> print "The red value is: ", color.red
> 
> If you *must* have a tuple to throw around, give your class a 'tuple' method:
> 
> class RGB(object):
>     def __init__(self, r=0, g=0, b=0):
>         self.red = r
>         self.green = g
>         self.blue = b
> 
>     def tuple(self):
>         return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
> 
> Why bother to shoehorn all of the name scaffolding into tuples when it's already present in classes?

Because you have to declare classes before you can instantiate them.
If you wanted a RGB tuple, would you really create a class for it? If
you wanted a 2d point? I guess tuples aren't really needed in python,
you can always get by by creating objects when you would have used
types. However, creating a class when all you want is a C-like struct
leads to alot of tedious and unnecessary work.

In my thinking, this:

return (r: 10, g: 20, b: 30)

would be read more as "create and return an anonymous object with
three attributes r, g, b set to 10, 20, 30". But maybe that solves a
problem that doesn't exist? Either people never use tuples and always
instantiate classes instead. OK. Fine. Or they use tuples because they
are convenient and becomes annoyed because they have to use index
access.
-- 
mvh Bj?rn


From bokr at oz.net  Tue Oct 12 20:54:32 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:54:32 GMT
Subject: Dict lookup shortcut?
References: <ckgfl4$a9$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <416c7618.108002579@news.oz.net>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:39:23 +0100, "M. Clift" <noone at here.com> wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>Can someone tell me is there a shorthand version to do this?
>
First question is why you want to do "this" -- and what "this" really is ;-)

>l1 = ['n1', 'n3', 'n1'...'n23'...etc...]
>
Where does that list of names come from?

>Names = {'n1':'Cuthbert','n2' :'Grub','n3' :'Dibble' etc...}
>
>for name in l1:
>    print Names[name],
>
>Rather than listing all the name+numbers keys in the dictionary can these
>keys be shortened somehow into one key and a range?
>


 >>> Names = dict([('n%s'%(i+1), name) for i,name in enumerate('Cuthbert Grub Dibble'.split())])
 >>> Names
 {'n1': 'Cuthbert', 'n2': 'Grub', 'n3': 'Dibble'}
 >>> for key in Names: print Names[key],
 ...
 Cuthbert Grub Dibble

I doubt that's what you really wanted to do, but who knows ;-)

BTW, in general, you can't depend on the order of keys gotten from a dictionary.

So if the dictionary pre-existed with those systematic sortable keys, you could
get them without knowing how many keys there were, and sort them instead of making
a manual list. E.g.,

 >>> keys = Names.keys()
 >>> keys.sort()
 >>> for key in keys: print Names[key],
 ...
 Cuthbert Grub Dibble

OTOH, if you are storing names in numerical order and want to retrieve them by
a key that represents their numerical position in the order, why not just use
a list and index it by numbers? E.g.

 >>> NameList = 'Cuthbert Grub Dibble'.split()
 >>> NameList
 ['Cuthbert', 'Grub', 'Dibble']
 >>> NameList[0]
 'Cuthbert'
 >>> NameList[2]
 'Dibble'

Plus, you don't have to bother with indices or sortable names at all
if you want to process them in order:

 >>> for name in NameList: print name,
 ...
 Cuthbert Grub Dibble

And if you do want an associated number, there's enumerate:

 >>> for i,name in enumerate(NameList): print 'Name #%2s: "%s"'%(i+1,name)
 ...
 Name # 1: "Cuthbert"
 Name # 2: "Grub"
 Name # 3: "Dibble"

Notice that I added 1 to i in order to print starting with # 1, since enumerate starts with 0 ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From glc at well.com  Tue Oct 12 09:20:06 2004
From: glc at well.com (Greg Chapman)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:20:06 GMT
Subject: Fatal error: GC object already tracked
References: <b0afa8dd.0410110817.6358e22a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ddmnm0lophjv7ig0g3po3j4b38nqa03s36@4ax.com>

On 11 Oct 2004 09:17:07 -0700, redhog at takeit.se (Egil M?ller) wrote:

>I'm developing a larger Python program, and one component (a text
>parser for a networking protocol) happend to be terribly slow, while
>quite a simple piece of code, so I decided to reimplement it in C.
>
>However, my code seems to do something in err, since the program
>semi-randomly locks somewhere outside my C-code (after returning to
>python), and semi-randomly issues a "Fatal error: GC object already
>tracked". As this is my first C-module ever, nearly straight from the
>HOWTO, I don't have much clue as to what is really wrong with my
>code...
>
>The code is available for inspection at
>http://grimoire.takeit.se/files/CReader.c, and the error happens at
>line 1111 in that file...
>

Your CReader_Buffer_dealloc method should be calling PyObject_GC_UnTrack before
doing anything else, see:

http://docs.python.org/api/supporting-cycle-detection.html

I can't say for sure that that will fix your problem, but given the error
message you're getting, it seems like a good place to start.

---
Greg Chapman



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sat Oct 30 05:23:02 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 02:23:02 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<698f09f8.0410280709.760948ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1099128182.7272.88.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 08:09 -0700, Jeremy Fincher wrote:

> The problem with int/long unification is that there is no simple
> pure-Python alternative for those of us who need a bounded integer
> type.  If our code depended on that raised OverflowError in order to
> ensure that our computations were bounded, we're left high and dry
> with ints and longs unified.  We must either drop down to C and write
> a bounded integer type, or we're stuck with code that no longer works.

Color me ignorant (I still maintain that numbers were a bad idea to
start with), but can you give an example of something that would
*require* this?  It seems to me that whether an OverflowError occurs is
only one way of determining whether a computation is bounded, and
further, it's a rather arbitrary marker (it is disassociated from the
capabilities of the computer hardware it's run on) .  I'd think
computational resources are the real concern (time and memory).  These
can be handled other ways (e.g. running the computation in a separate
process and killing it if it exceeds certain time/memory constraints).

I suppose my position is this: if I have a computer that can perform a
calculation in a reasonable time without exhausting the resources of the
machine then I would think that Python shouldn't try to stop me from
doing it, at least not based on some arbitrary number of bits.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  3 18:41:04 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 00:41:04 +0200
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
Mostly interesting comments, snipped but hopefully useful to clear up
some confusions from readers, but one I need to comment on...:

> languages. That happens because def's are not executed at this time -
> def's are only compiled. But any code inside a class definition that

Each def statement IS indeed executed; I think what you mean to say is
that a def statement does not execute the body of the function it's
defining, it just stashes that body away (in a compiled form) for future
execution (each time that function is called).


Alex


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Mon Oct 11 16:55:49 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:55:49 -0700
Subject: Alternatives for pickle?
In-Reply-To: <slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <slrncmkgq0.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <ckes0m$k2v$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Antoon Pardon wrote:
> I'm writing a little game, a gridler application, where you
> can turn pixmaps into puzzle's and try to solve them. I already
> have the data structure for such a puzzle worked out, one of
> the problems is writing it to a file and reading it back in.
> 
> I first went to the pickle module but there I read this.
> 
> | Warning: The pickle module is not intended to be secure against
> | erroneous or maliciously constructed data. Never unpickle data
> | received from an untrusted or unauthenticated source.
> 
> But since this is for a game and people should be able to
> exchange puzzles, it seems a heavy requirement to ask of
> the users to check a puzzle file for security hazards.
> 
> 
> I also thought about writing out a string that, when read
> back in and fed to eval would recreate the structure. But
> that seems to be just as insecure if not more so.

Indeed. Don't do that.

> So how do you serialize data in python, when you want
> a somewhat secure mechanisme. Preferably where a user
> can make a puzzle file by hand in a text editor.

I think this is a case where you need to come up with your own file 
format and parse it yourself. Pickle and other such mechanisms have 
security problems because they are so general. They will create objects 
that you don't want.

You can always jump on the XML bandwagon if that is convenient for you. 
Python has XML modules in the standard library. Depending on the 
complexity of the structure, it might even be convenient to edit by hand 
in a text editor.

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 15 02:16:48 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:16:48 -0700
Subject: Not enough space error?
In-Reply-To: <20041014225011.0975.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <01b801c4b275$d70f2bf0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
	<20041014225011.0975.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20041014231610.0978.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> >   On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 10:09 +0800, Joe Wong wrote:
> >   > Hi,
> >   >  
> >   >  I have a script that runs on Windows. Last night, it throw an except
> >   > saying:
> >   >  
> >   > IOError Errno 12 not enough space
> >   >  
> >   > This happens on the "open()" call. I check and there is plenty of
> >   > diskspace available on my Windows 2000 box.
> >   >  
> >   > What could be the cause of this error here?
> 
> You are running windows 2k, but how big is the file?

Oh yeah, and are you running FAT32 on that drive?

 - Josiah



From theller at python.net  Thu Oct 21 15:21:40 2004
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:21:40 +0200
Subject: building Python on solaris
References: <fz48nwtd.fsf@python.net>
	<mailman.5264.1098374973.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8y9znagr.fsf@python.net>

Trent Mick <trentm at ActiveState.com> writes:

> Thomas Heller wrote:
>> So, it seems a c++ library is missing.  I assume the C++ compiler isn't
>> really needed to build Python - can I somehow run configure so that this
>> test is skipped?
>
> Perhaps the --without-cxx configure option will work for you? I build
> on Solaris with the native Sun Pro C compiler so I can't be sure.

Thanks, that worked.

Thomas


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Sat Oct 16 00:59:28 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:59:28 +0200
Subject: Dxf conversion
In-Reply-To: <xqx4qkv65gu.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
References: <mailman.5021.1097870132.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xqx4qkv65gu.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <4170AAB0.9030600@geochemsource.com>


>"Unfortunately, the server is a Unix server" Au contraire :-)
>
I mean, this is unfortunate only because I could only find batch 
converter programs for M$ Windows. ;-)
Thank you.

  L 2.0




From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Mon Oct 25 14:57:36 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:57:36 -0400
Subject: 2 questions about scope
References: <slrncnq5fr.dam.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<20041025105736.0B0D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <cljib0$h11$1@sea.gmane.org>

Josiah Carlson wrote:

> 
> Gabriel Zachmann <zach at cs.uni-bonn.de> wrote:
>> 

> 
>> 2. Why is it that 'while', 'for', etc., don't introduce a new block?
>>    (so that variables bound inside those blocks would be local to those
>>    blocks only?)
> 

Actually, these don't introduce a block in c++ either.  The braces do.




From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Oct 19 13:53:05 2004
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:53:05 -0700
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
Message-ID: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3244FE5@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> > "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote ...
> > 
> > def warehouse(stock, factory=None):
> 
> Here are some random thoughts based on a first read through:
> 
> * The basic idea of iterating stock and then calling a 
> factory when the
> stock is depleted is already expressible in terms of itertools.  For
> example, if random.random() is the factory:
> 
>    iavailable = chain(stock, starmap(random.random, repeat(())))

Ah, thanks! The docs don't really make it clear that you can pass a
callable to repeat() and have it be called on each iteration. The Python
"equivalent" given in the docs looks like you get the same static object
every time... :/

> * The second iterator, iremainder, ventures well beyond the basic idea
> of a warehouse/factory chain.  It pushes the learning curve up steeply
> and makes the function less generic (i.e. plenty of situations that
> could use the warehouse/factory chain have no need for the separate
> iremainder iterator).

True. Dang, I wish generators could take attributes; I would've attached
iremainder there instead and reduced the learning curve a bit for those
who don't need that feature.

> * Making the factory argument optional is, IMO, also trying to do too
> much.  Using the first stock item to identify a type and then calling
> the type is probably more appropriate for prototype based OO 
> (i.e. with objects designed for cloning operations).  Also, the number

> of potential uses is limited because knowing the type does not imply
> that you know the signature for the constructor or that you can infer 
> argument values for constructors that take arguments.

The uses are limited only when you do not supply the factory argument;
when I need constructor arguments, I make a factory function for the
class and pass that for the 'factory' arg.

> * This function has not seen real world use outside your organization.

Right.

> Posting it as an ASPN recipe might give it a chance to be 
> kicked around a bit and perhaps re-emerge in a more mature form.

The cookbook is a good idea (this makes a better recipe than a module
func; I agree 100%). But I don't find ASPN a place which stimulates
"kicking things around", because there's no critical community mass.
c.l.p is still better for that, IMO.

> * Most of the itertools and their kin only try to encapsulate 
> a tiny bit
> of logic (enumerate and takewhile for example).  Even the most complex
> tool, groupby(), is built around an atomic idea (roughly akin to the
> uniq filter in Unix uniq).  The bite sized approach enables 
> itertools to
> simplify code without obscuring the program logic.  IMO, the proposed
> warehouse() function does not share that advantage (though it is
> possible that repetition may allow ones mind to eventually 
> condense the
> logic into a managable unit of thought).

Agreed. Thanks for the feedback!


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org


From godoy at ieee.org  Mon Oct 25 17:45:58 2004
From: godoy at ieee.org (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:45:58 -0300
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca> <m31xfmwqwb.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<HICdnSp-CJXCzuDcRVn-gw@powergate.ca> <m3k6tevb9p.fsf@g2ctech.com>
	<rtKdnRB5NOSV9ODcRVn-ug@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <m3zn2atqsp.fsf@g2ctech.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> I really think it says that about the *product*, not its source code.
> The source code is not being provided as part of the sale, it is being
> made available separately.

IANAL, but if the license requires me to give the source code if it was
requested without costs -- except for the media and delivery of it --
then it looks like part of the package to me (i.e., the product works
but is not "complete").

On the other hand, I agree that supporting the source code is not an
obligation. 

> It's not even necessary that it be possible to use that source to
> rebuild the product without purchasing other pieces of software, such
> as commercial compilers.

Here I agree with you.  You also don't have to give the source code for
compilers, system libraries or the OS itself.  You don't either have to
give a license of the OS where the software will run in, so that makes
it clear that these are separate things.

On the other hand, selling something and saying that if the customer
wants he can get the "diagrams, specs and building rules" to rebuild the
same product -- making it clear what the requirements are -- might make
some judge interpret that as if the given source code would have to work
and be able to rebuild everything given that all required tools are
available.  I don't know if support for setting up the environment
variables, locating libraries, fixing some Makefile, etc. would be
considered an extra or not.  I digress here, of course, but it is hard
to think of what an unchanged code might need in terms of support.

Reading some new posts from Grant, I saw that these support requests
arrive through their sales people, so I think they aren't too complex or
related to something like building an entirely new product using their
software as a module.


What I think?  I'd like to get that support if I were buying and I'd
hate to give it for free if I were selling. :-)  I'd try making it very
clear on the contract. 

> Grant was talking about the cost of supporting the *source code* when
> its required that it be made available because of GPL-type license
> terms, and I really would be very surprised if Brazilian law had
> anything to say about that.

No, it doesn't even make it clear if GPL is or not supported at all.  I
think that it is the same everywhere, but software here is treated like
art, like a book.  It is subject to intelectual properties laws.  We
don't have -- AFAIR -- specific software laws.  Yet.

> I could be wrong.  You're right about the rocks though: sorry about
> that. :-)

Don't worry.  :-)  I'll still read your posts and try learning something
from them :-)

> -Peter


Be seeing you,
-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at ieee.org>


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Oct 27 12:46:49 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:46:49 -0400
Subject: Database related...
References: <20041027101331.1048.qmail@webmail35.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <clojdi$6kg$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Sandeep Avinash Gohad" <gohadbhai at rediffmail.com> wrote in message 
news:20041027101331.1048.qmail at webmail35.rediffmail.com...

>Hello
...
>Regards
>Sandeep

>[tracking/advertising image link to rediff.com deleted]

Hi: using Usenet/mailing list to spam readers with a tracking and 
advertising image link is both against the rules and impolite.

Please desist.  Get another free mail service if you have to.

Terry J. Reedy







-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list 





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 07:11:09 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:11:09 +0200
Subject: No more command history with cursor keys
References: <1096619099.20537@ftpgate>
	<1gkz5o9.1yipm4e1bewl8jN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<1096623037.823368@ftpgate>
Message-ID: <1gkzb3x.1dankqqjkrz8pN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Chris <chrisNOSPAM at spam.com> wrote:

> Indeed, readline.so exists in my Python2.2 install (part of SuSE 8.2) but
> not in the Python 2.3.4 install that I built. I tried to copy the file but
> there's a mismatch.

Yep, it needs to get rebuilt for the specific Python version.

> But I don't understand what went wrong: configure / make / make install all
> finished successfully.

Lack of optional components (of which readline is one) is not an error
in the Python build, so it will finish successfully anyway.

> How can I get that readline.so file?

Have you installed all readline-related RPMs (Suse's an RPM distro,
right?), including the -devel if any?  If not try doing so and retry the
make, it should build the missing readline.so.  Otherwise we'll have to
figure out where the readline pieces are and where the Python build is
looking for them instead.

Note that there are other optional components that you may not be
building if you don't have the related -devel RPMs installed.  You can
look for all the .so that come with your suse-built Python 2.2 and see
which ones are missing in the 2.3 you built (not sure if some were just
dropped in the 2.2 -> 2.3 transition, but I don't think so...).


Alex


From i.horvath at alco.co.hu  Mon Oct 11 09:13:18 2004
From: i.horvath at alco.co.hu (Ivan Horvath)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:13:18 +0200
Subject: store files in mysql
Message-ID: <416A86EE.7000507@alco.co.hu>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041011/6c719dc9/attachment.html>

From just at xs4all.nl  Sun Oct 17 04:12:13 2004
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:12:13 +0200
Subject: Anything like 'inspect.getsourceencoding()'?
References: <mailman.5071.1097991055.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-0083E4.10121317102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.5071.1097991055.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote:

> Jeff Epler wrote:
> > Is there a convenient way to find the encoding of a source file?
> 
> Short answer: no, you have to guess. But check out some good guessing
> algorithms at e.g. http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/decodeh.py

You don't have to guess if the file has a

# -*- coding: encoding -*-

line. Such a line is required anyway, as of Python 2.3, if the source 
file contains non-ascii chars.

Just


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Tue Oct  5 04:14:16 2004
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:14:16 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41624f0e$0$17003$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
>>Not sure I understand you here.  I want to implement messages like in 
>>ObjC where if you send a msg to an object and that object does know what 
>>to do with it, it can send the obj automatically to another object which 
>>might know what to do with it.
>>
>>Anyhow, there are other reasons as well.
> 
> 
> What are called "messages" in ObjC, are generally known as "instance
> methods" in Python.
> 
> I would imagine in ObjC you would do something like the following:
> 
> object.send('operation', arg1, arg2, arg3,...)
> send(object, 'operation', arg1, arg2, arg3,...)
> 
> In Python, that becomes:
> 
> object.operation(arg1, arg2, arg3,...)
> 
> 
> "Messages" in ObjC are really just a metaphor, one that is shared by
> Smalltalk, but not many other object-oriented languages.
> 

Well, I'd rather say that *all* OOPLs support message passing. What we 
call 'methods' are just a way to implement a specific response to a message.

Given the following code :

    "a b c d".split()

What we're really doing - from an OO POV - is not calling the split() 
instance method of class str, but sending the 'split' message to a str 
object. The fact that doing so result in calling the split() instance 
method of the str class is just a side effect !-)

just-playing-with-words-ly y'rs
Bruno



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Sun Oct 17 07:44:33 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 17 Oct 2004 11:44:33 GMT
Subject: creating users from a text file in Plone : how ?
References: <cktfm0$a35$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <Xns95857BBB7A435duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Jean-Francois Boisvieux wrote:

> the subject is the question, anybody could provide me a pointer on this 
> subject ?

You should always put the question in the body of the message. Not all 
newsreaders make it easy to see the subject when the body is displayed.

Posting to one of the Plone lists is more likely to get you a comprehensive 
answer, but:

Subject: creating users from a text file in Plone : how ?

Use:

   acl_users.changeOrCreateUsers(new_users=listofUserIds,
        default_password=whatever, REQUEST=REQUEST)

to create a list of users, then iterate through them calling 

   user = portal_membership.getMemberById(userid)
   user.setMemberProperties({'email':email, 'fullname':fullName})

to get the user object and set the fullname and email.



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct 16 11:40:47 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:40:47 -0700
Subject: Poll script in Python
In-Reply-To: <81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f@posting.google.com>
References: <81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041016083537.09D5.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Is there a poll script available in Python?

What do you mean by "poll"?

Do you mean "poll a file for changes", "poll a file handle for
readability/writability", "poll a socket", ..., "a web poll for taking
surveys",...?

 - Josiah



From nobody at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 23 18:02:05 2004
From: nobody at hotmail.com (Maboroshi)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:02:05 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Problem
Message-ID: <10nllajevdji2ba@corp.supernews.com>

Why when I use the sticky command with the grid layout manager won't my 
Listbox expand it stays in the center maybe I am missing something but 
from every tutorial I see it says to do it this way

I am running Python2.3.4 on winxp I haven't tried it on linux yet

Any Ideas are appreciated

Let me know if I am not being clear enough

Cheers

Andrew


from Tkinter import *


class App(Frame):
     def __init__(self, master=None):
         Frame.__init__(self, master)
         self.grid()
         self.createWidgets()

     def createWidgets(self):
         self.listbox = Listbox(self)
	# RIGHT HERE THIS WON'T EXPAND TO FILL
         self.listbox.grid(row=0, column=0, rowspan=3, sticky=N+E+S+W)

         self.connect = Button(self, text="Connect")
         self.connect.grid(row=0, column=1)
         self.execute = Button(self, text="Execute")
         self.execute.grid(row=1, column=1)
         self.disconnect = Button(self, text="Disconnect")
         self.disconnect.grid(row=2, column=1)

         self.entry = Entry(self)
         self.entry.grid(row=3, column=0, columnspan=2, sticky=E+W)


app = App()
app.master.title("MySQL DB Project")
app.master.minsize(400, 300)
app.mainloop()


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Oct 22 04:26:36 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:26:36 +0100
Subject: How to start a new thread ?
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B49@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Lad]
| > From running script I would like to start a new script in a new
| > window.How can I do that from Python?
| > Thanks for help
| > LAD
| 
| Nobody knows???
| Lad

<code>

import os
os.system ("/path/to/other/script.py")

</code>

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
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From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 04:04:51 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 01:04:51 -0700
Subject: Artifical Life - a job for someone else
References: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>
	<10n2k37m9tkmqe5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410200004.3e2d165b@posting.google.com>

"George Kinney" <gk_2345 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10n2k37m9tkmqe5 at corp.supernews.com>...
> "Michael Foord" <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0 at posting.google.com...
> > I really miss a decent Cellular Automota program and I was really
> > surprised that there weren't lot's of implementations for python.
> >
> > I've seen 'cage' around, but this uses curses so doesn't work on
> > windoze :-( *Someone* should do a decent Tkinter version of life !!
> > Great fun. Unfortunately it won't be me as I've got too many projects
> > on at the moment....
> >
> 
> Well, this has zip to do with python, but I've really enjoyed playing with
> it:
> http://psoup.math.wisc.edu/Life32.html

Now that is great fun.
Thanks

Fuzzy


From olli at haluter.fromme.com  Fri Oct 29 13:24:43 2004
From: olli at haluter.fromme.com (Oliver Fromme)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 17:24:43 GMT
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <2ufcmrF29iv3oU1@uni-berlin.de>

Diez B. Roggisch <deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:
 > And pointers are not evil in themselves - the are a neccessity to create
 > recursive structures. But deliberately casting pointers can be very harmful 
 > - a reason why its forbidden in languages like java and AFAIK ada.

I agree.  A language worth mentioning in this context might
be Cyclone.  It's derived from C (and still has very much in
common with it, so it's easy to port C programs to Cyclone).
The difference is that "safe" features have been added to the
language.  For example, you can't do arbitrary type casts on
pointers anymore, and you can't access strings (or other
allocated memory) beyond their end.  The ultimate goal of
Cyclone is to make it impossible for programs to crash or
have security holes caused by buffer overflows or similar.

Furthermore, Cyclone provides interesting features, such as
tagged unions, parametric polymorphism, pattern matching,
exceptions, even a somewhat limited implementation of type
inference.

http://www.research.att.com/projects/cyclone/

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Konrad-Celtis-Str. 72, 81369 Munich, Germany

``All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream.''
(E. A. Poe)


From python at rcn.com  Sun Oct 24 02:52:45 2004
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 23:52:45 -0700
Subject: bz2 module
References: <cl18e4$ma5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<1glvijt.ji2vka1o473smN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cl1a3m$os6$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<1glwd1v.1cs46z81fpupapN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5d83790c.0410232252.1fb3737f@posting.google.com>

[Alex Martelli]
> > > If the docs were perfect, who'd ever buy Python in a Nutshell, or the
> > > Python Cookbook?  So I sneak in at night in the CVS repository and
> > > secretly sabotage them just enough, destroying, without leaving a trace,
> > > all the wonderful doc patches that people are submitting all the time,
> > > fixing problems rather than whining about them...
 . . .
> I'm not comfortable with the library
> *reference* being full of examples; I think it should probably be split
> into a reference (a real one) and a collection of how-to/tutorials (with
> the examples).  So, I've submitted doc pathes for correction of errors,
> omissions, imperfect or ambiguous phrasing, etc, but not ones for the
> addition of examples.

As a countermeaure for Alex secretly sabotaging doc patches, I've been
waging a counter campaign to put *more* examples in the reference ;-)

While Alex wasn't looking, I added the "Basic Example" for the
unittest docs.  Now, it's possible to get some immediate benefit from
the module without reading the other seven sections or buying Alex's
wonderful books.

The new decimal module has a "Quick Start" section, the itertools
module has both examples and recipes, and now even the tutorial has
two new chapters chuck full of examples covering a swath of the
Standard Library.

Still more valiant efforts are needed.  Currently, only his book
effectively documents the __new__ method and shows how to use
meta-classes.  When his guard is down, *someone* should sneak in a doc
patch.  Unless we all contribute, Alex's superb books will continue to
be must haves.


Raymond


P.S.  Remember, this Alex character is dastardly.  You may have to
resort to slippery measures.  For goodness sake, don't let him find
out about all the superb examples carefully hidden in
Lib/test/test_generators.py ;-)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 11:22:49 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:22:49 +0200
Subject: How to determine if a file is busy?
References: <c89d662c.0410080246.52ed9407@posting.google.com>
	<ck5uiv$hhj$1@online.de> <1glcbu7.po1w0e8mxyl6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck68jf$dck$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1glcld4.c2w3h3izts0jN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Martin Michel <busyman at t-online.de> wrote:
   ...
> I am now trying to implement something like a temp file, which I will
> finally (after writing all the informations into it) copy into an export
> location, where the Python script can fetch it any time. My only concern is,
> if copying is also a problem (Python script reads the text file, while the
> copy process is not yet finalized...)....

Renaming, as suggested on the other subthread, sounds preferable to
copying, more likely to be an atomic operation on any kind of shared
filesystem.  Your applescript should write 'foobar.new' (either directly
in the export location, or copying it there each time it's ready) then
rename it to something like 'foobar.ready_20041008_171921' or other
unique name that's easily identifiable (this example uses a timestamp in
an order Y-M-D-h-m-s that will automatically "sort right").

Python can periodically look for 'foobar.ready_*' files in the export
location, and consume and delete them -- if it finds more than one it's
up to you whether it should consume all or just the newest one, but all
should be deleted anyway, whether they're consumed or otherwise ignored.

This protocol appears to me to be quite safe, with minimal demands on
the filesystem you're sharing.


Alex


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Oct 18 17:41:45 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:41:45 +0200
Subject: md5 and large files
In-Reply-To: <cl19dr$nqo$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <UqGdncN5T6jxX-7cRVn-2A@powergate.ca>	<2tic7kF1vnt1fU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5128.1098124728.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cl19dr$nqo$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <41743897$0$24525$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Brad Tilley wrote:
> All you need is 2^128+1 to find a duplicate, no? The problem, as I 
> understand it, is getting to the end (2^128+1) as sufficient computing 
> power isn't available... yet.

No. After 2^128+1, you will have found two files with the same md5sum.
However, you won't necessarily have found a file that hashes the same
as your *original* file. You may well search the space of all possible
files (in all file lengths), and never find a single file that hashes
the same as your original file.

Regards,
Martin


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Oct 18 21:05:00 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:05:00 -0400
Subject: Why is function call - recursive especially - in python so slow?
References: <1066.128.200.69.159.1098130216.squirrel@128.200.69.159>
Message-ID: <cl1p7n$imt$1@sea.gmane.org>


<iviskic at uci.edu> wrote in message
> I'm doing an analysis of program code performance when written in python
> as oppose to other programming languages, and can't seem to figure out 
> why
> is the call of functions so slow?

Partly because function parameter definitions and function calls are so 
flexible.  For instance: named parameters, default values, and *seq and 
**dic parameters.

> Is a context being created and stored on stog each time

I do not know whether stog is a type or new word for me.  However, I 
believe that at present all function calls other than a generator.next 
call-after-first-yield do set up a new stack frame.  (There has been some 
discussion of some reuse in other situations also.)

> How EXACTLY does it work?

The reference manual defines that sematics that any implementation must 
implement.  'Exactly' how any particular implemention fulfills that 
contract is in the sources.

Terry J. Reedy





From cnoviello at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 18 01:37:41 2004
From: cnoviello at hotmail.com (Carmine Noviello)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:37:41 +0200
Subject: optparse examples
In-Reply-To: <_Uxcd.50307$b5.2548305@news3.tin.it>
References: <_Uxcd.50307$b5.2548305@news3.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ckvl18$p0e$1@domitilla.aioe.org>

GMTaglia wrote:

> Maybe someone have some examples of code for the *real world*?

Give a look to this:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/278844

I hope it can help you.

Bye
--
Don't you know why your Python application has crashed?
Take a look to http://www.pycrash.org
My Home Page http://cnoviello.altervista.org


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Oct 17 09:35:14 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 08:35:14 -0500
Subject: Anything like 'inspect.getsourceencoding()'?
In-Reply-To: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F8F@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F8F@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <20041017133512.GF2588@unpythonic.net>

On Sat, Oct 16, 2004 at 10:30:05PM -0700, Robert Brewer wrote:
> Jeff Epler wrote:
> > Is there a convenient way to find the encoding of a source file?
> 
> Short answer: no, you have to guess. But check out some good guessing
> algorithms at e.g. http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/decodeh.py

Python doesn't guess:  it refers to a specially-formatted line that
names the encoding (PEP 263).

It was access to this metadata that I was hoping to find through the
inspect module.

I agree that for general, unknown text files you have to guess. (and
I'll thank myself some day if I save the URL you mentioned)

Jeff
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From none at pacbell.net  Sun Oct 10 16:50:41 2004
From: none at pacbell.net (Richard)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:50:41 GMT
Subject: DISLIN or gnuplot.py
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.10.20.50.39.807116@pacbell.net>

I am going to need to plot some data and formula results from Python.  A
few years ago I used gnuplot (not from Python) and was wondering which
Python plotting module I should use (learn)?

I have seen DISLIN mentioned on "onlamp.com" and see that gnuplot has a
python module wrapper.

Any suggestions on Python plotting modules? (DISLIN or gnuplot.py or ????)

Thanks


From agriff at tin.it  Sat Oct  2 15:33:08 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:33:08 GMT
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<cjltj9$m79$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <ulvtl0lnjhll062q8dv4rd10t53v4u0lpl@4ax.com>

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:50:25 +0200, Armin Steinhoff
<a-steinhoff at web.de> wrote:

>> ...does really noone use Python for industrial control applications?

I implemented the control software for an automated
tangential sewing machine in python (it's a 4 axis
control). The low-level part for axis control runs
on custom hardware, but all the high-level part
including path computation with dynamics constraint
has been coded for a PC in pure python that happened
to be fast enough. The program uses a serial port
and a parallel port to communicate with the low-level
part of the NC, and the user interface has been
coded to work fullscreen using pygame.

It was just a prototype I coded that way basically to
test python, but I was surprised with the results
that seem to me more than adequate. In my case I had
just soft realtime constraint (the low-level part is
able to stop and restart gracefully in the event of
buffering underflow in the axis control data feed)
but I didn't observe any real problem (the axis are
controlled with dt = 1ms).

Andrea


From gandreas at no.reply  Fri Oct 15 22:49:23 2004
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:49:23 -0500
Subject: Why does super take a class name as the argument?
References: <87wtxshvej.fsf@ion.xlipstream.com>
	<2taq57F1sir22U1@uni-berlin.de> <41705EED.2000702@kzoo.edu>
	<mailman.5030.1097890551.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gandreas-765A5E.21490815102004@news.visi.com>

In article <mailman.5030.1097890551.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 Ed Leafe <ed at leafe.com> wrote:

> On Oct 15, 2004, at 7:36 PM, dataangel wrote:
> 
> > What's the going argument against it? Makes sense to me.
> 
> 	There are constructions in other languages whereby an call to the 
> superclass method does not require an explicit name of the current 
> class. When an inherited method is augmented in a subclass, the call to 
> the superclass version of the method doesn't require any class 
> specification; each class knows its own hierarchy.
> 

Except that in python a method can be changed to a different class, or 
even multiple classes, not to mention the fact that class parents can be 
dynamically reassigned.

In lanagues like Self, which is similar in its flexibility (but can 
actually handle this sort of thing), the method itself inherits from the 
object (it's kind of confusing to wrap your head around) so it can 
figure out things like this, but Python doesn't work that way.


> 	Think of it another way: since B can figure out how to execute a call 
> to a method that doesn't exist in B itself by looking into its class 
> hierarchy, why can't a call like self.super() execute the code that 
> would have been executed had the subclass not overridden the method in 
> the first place?
> 

When an instance "b" (or say "c" which is an instance of class "C" which 
is a subclass of "B") executes something like "self.foo", it starts 
looking at the class of self.  "super" actually starts further up the 
chain - if self is "c", you want "A.foo" and not "B.foo" (which is what 
you'd get if it tried to derive who "super" is based on "self").


From nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net  Wed Oct  6 17:15:43 2004
From: nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net (Nicola Larosa)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:15:43 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Ovp8d.3155$M05.74@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4311.1096951351.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zJp8d.3165$M05.1860@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<278de0e.0410051203.3ac28eae@posting.google.com>
	<OUD8d.3656$M05.2085@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ck1n9p$chc$4@newsreader.mailgate.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> And I had an hour to kill waiting for a phone call.

This is triply off-topic, so be it.

Never understood people's propensity to kill time. Isn't it enough how much
it continuously kills itself?

Deadly serious-ly,

- -- 
Nicola Larosa - nico-NoSp at m-tekNico.net

Python gives you enough rope to hang yourself, but you have to know where
to look. Its land has a dearth of trees, branches or posts to use the rope
to actually hang yourself. And the landscape is so beautiful we don't even
notice most of the time. :) -- Chris on comp.lang.python, July 2004


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6ba7HhHtRmxq0pL4CZsJi/A=
=D86o
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From alia_khouri at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 31 11:27:56 2004
From: alia_khouri at yahoo.com (Alia Khouri)
Date: 31 Oct 2004 08:27:56 -0800
Subject: Python in Free Music Software
References: <40a939c9.0410291820.fada696@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40a939c9.0410310827.112f13a1@posting.google.com>

I just realized how badly worded the subject line of the prior posting
was on this topic... ;-)

Anyways,

Here's an update to the list (which is not comprehensive at this
stage), but which includes items that haven't been mentioned in Pypi
or in Parnassus:


> Hi,
> 
> Here are the results (in no particular order) of an informal survey of
> open-source / free music applications which use python in some form or
> the other. If you know of any other other examples please add them to
> the list.
> 
> Enjoy (-;
> 
> AK
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Survey of use of Python Language in Open-source / Free Music Software
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> pymps
> http://www.anti-particle.com/pymps.shtml
> Pymps is the PYthon Music Playing System - a web based mp3/ogg
> jukebox. It's written in Python and utilises the PostgreSQL database.
>  
> m3ute2
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/m3ute2/
> m3ute2 is program for copying, moving, and otherwise organizing M3U
> playlists and directories. m3ute2 can also generate detailed reports
> about lists of files.
> 
> fmod
> http://www.fmod.org/
> FMOD is the fastest, most powerful and easiest to use sound system on
> Windows, Linux, and Windows CE there is,   and now Macintosh,
> GameCube, PS2 & XBox!. FMOD supports 3d sound, midi, mods, mp3, ogg
> vorbis, wma, aiff, recording, obstruction/occlusion, cd playback
> (analog or digital), cd ripping, mmx, internet streaming, dsp effects,
> spectrum analysis, user created samples and streams, synchronization
> support, ASIO, EAX 2&3, C/C++/VB/Delphi and more.
> 
> pysonic
> http://pysonic.sourceforge.net/
> pySonic is a Python wrapper around the high performance, cross
> platform FMOD sound library. You get all the benefits of the FMOD
> library, but in a Pythonic, object oriented package.
> 
> PMIDI
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/uncassist
> The PMIDI library allows the generation of short MIDI sequences in
> Python code.The interface allows a programmer to specify songs,
> instruments, measures, and notes. Playback is handled by the Windows 
> MIDI stream API so proper playback timing is handled by the OS rather
> than by client code. The library is especially useful for generating
> earcons.
> 
> PythonMIDI
> http://www.mxm.dk/products/public/pythonmidi
> The Python Midi package is a collection of classes handling Midi in
> and output in the Python programming language.
> 
> PythonSound
> http://pythonsound.sourceforge.net/
> The Python Sound Project aims to develop a productive community around
> Python, Csound and other synthesis engines as tools for algorithmic
> and computer assisted composition of electroacoustic music.
>  
> AthenaCL
> http://www.flexatone.net/athena.html
> AthenaCL is an open-source, cross-platform, command-line program that
> functions as both a pitch (class) set theory utility (capable of both
> set and voice-leading modeling and analysis) as well as an
> object-orientated, Python-scriptable algorithmic front-end to Csound.
> Combining these features allows rapid and flexible scoring of Csound
> instruments with the elegance of Python-written texture algorithms.
> These simple algorithms allow the organization of pitch-materials by
> ordered content-groups, employing 12-tone set-class and pitch-class
> notations. Rather than writing its own music, AthenaCL is a
> compositional assistant: the algorithms create complex textural
> surfaces, leaving the limitless mixture and placement of these
> textures and their attributes entirely in the hands of the composer.
>  
> PyJack
> http://www.a2hd.com/software/
> This is a Python C extension module which provides an interface to the
> Jack Audio Server. It is possible to access the Jack graph to perform
> port connections/disconnections, monitor graph change events, and to
> perform realtime audio capture and playback using Numeric Python
> arrays. This is released under the GPL.
> 
> Csound / CsoundVST
> http://www.csounds.com/
> Csound is a programming language designed and optimized for sound
> rendering and signal processing. The language consists of over 450
> opcodes - the operational codes that the sound designer uses to build
> "instruments" or patches. Although there are an increasing number of
> graphical "front-ends" for the language, you typically design and
> modify your patches using a word processor. Usually, you create two
> text files - a .orc (orchestra) file containing the "instruments," and
> a .sco (score) file containing the "notes." In Csound, the complexity
> of your patches is limited by your knowledge, interest, and need, but
> never by the language itself. For instance, a 22,050 oscillator
> additive synthesizer with 1024 stage envelope generators on each is
> merely a copy-and-paste operation. The same goes for a 1 million voice
> granular texture! Have you ever dreamed of sounds such as these? Well
> in Csound you can. And in Csound these dreams can come true!
> 
> dublin 
> http://seqdublin.sourceforge.net/
> Dublin is an object oriented framework to generate events in pd. Every
> objects is defined in python and then it interacts with other objects
> in pure-data. The goal is not only the provide an external python
> facility to pd but also to give the functionality of a sequencer. As
> for the user interface, it uses Idle, the Python IDE to edit and run
> event scripts.
> 
> MusicKit
> http://musickit.sourceforge.net/
> The MusicKit is an object-oriented software system for building music,
> sound, signal processing, and MIDI applications. It has been used in
> such diverse commercial applications as music sequencers, computer
> games, and document processors. Professors and students in academia
> have used the MusicKit in a host of areas, including music
> performance, scientific experiments, computer-aided instruction, and
> physical modeling. Using the Python to Objective C bridge PyObjC
> enables applications and utilities to be written in Python, an
> interpreted object-oriented language.
> 
> GNU Solfege
> http://solfege.org/
> GNU Solfege is a computer program written to help you practice ear
> training.It can be useful when practicing the simple and mechanical
> exercises.
> 
> Snack
> http://www.speech.kth.se/snack/
> The Snack Sound Toolkit is designed to be used with a scripting
> language such as Tcl/Tk or Python. Using Snack you can create powerful
> multi-platform audio applications with just a few lines of code. Snack
> has commands for basic sound handling, such as playback, recording,
> file and socket I/O. Snack also provides primitives for sound
> visualization, e.g. waveforms and spectrograms. It was developed
> mainly to handle digital recordings of speech, but is just as useful
> for general audio. Snack has also successfully been applied to other
> one-dimensional signals. The combination of Snack and a scripting
> language makes it possible to create sound tools and applications with
> a minimum of effort. This is due to the rapid development nature of
> scripting languages. As a bonus you get an application that is
> cross-platform from start. It is also easy to integrate Snack based
> applications with existing sound analysis software.
> 
> Pygame
> http://pygame.org/
> Pygame is a set of Python modules designed for writing games. It is
> written on top of the excellent SDL library. This allows you to create
> fully featured games and multimedia programs in the python language.
> Pygame is highly portable and runs on nearly every platform and
> operating system.
> 
> Pyper
> http://www.stanford.edu/~andyszy/pyper/
> Pyper is a musical development environment. It allows you to write
> Python scripts that generates music in real-time. Pyper uses QuickTime
> Musical Instruments for synthesis.

blue
http://csounds.com/stevenyi/blue/index.html
blue is a java program for use with Csound. It's interface is much
like a digital multitrack, but differs in that there timelines within
timelines (polyObjects). This allows for a compositional organization
in time that seems to me to be very intuitive, informative, and
flexible. soundObjects are the building blocks within blue's score
timeline. soundObjects can be lists of notes, algorithmic generators,
python script code, csound instrument definitions, and whatever
plugins that are developed for blue. these soundObjects may be text
based, but they can be completely GUI based as well.

ID3.py
http://id3-py.sourceforge.net/
This module allows one to read and manipulate so-called ID3
informational tags on MP3 files through an object-oriented Python 
interface.

id3reader.py
http://www.nedbatchelder.com/code/modules/id3reader.html
Id3reader.py is a Python module that reads ID3 metadata tags in MP3
files. It can read ID3v1, ID3v2.2, ID3v2.3, or ID3v2.4 tags. It does
not write tags at all.

PyID3
http://icepick.info/projects/pyid3/
pyid3 is a pure python library for reading and writing id3 tags
(version 1.0, 1.1, 2.3, 2.4, readonly support for 2.2). What makes
this better than all the others?  Testing!  This library has been
tested against some 200+ MB of just tags.

OSC.py
http://web.tiscali.it/mupuxeddu/csound/OSC.py
Python classes for OpenSoundControl library client functionality. The
OSC homepage is at http://cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu/OpenSoundControl/

PMask
Python implementation of CMask, a stochastic event generator for
Csound.
http://web.tiscali.it/mupuxeddu/csound/index.html

winmidi.pyd
http://www.sabren.net/code/python/midi/
A demo? of a python extension interfacing to the native windows midi
libs. This was probably a development from this point
http://www.sabren.net/rants/2000/01/20000129a.php3

PyMIDI
http://www.hyperreal.org/~est/python/MIDI/
The MIDI module provides MIDI input parsers for Python.

Nam: not about music
http://www.quitte.de/nam.html
A Python Extension for Digital Music Applications. Its purpose is 
Flexible realtime MIDI and audio processing and sequencing.

midi.py
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=3C0F67FE.96E7CAE8%40alum.mit.edu
Python MIDI classes: meaningful data structures that represent MIDI
events and other objects. You can read MIDI files to create such
objects, or generate a collection of objects and use them to write a
MIDI file.

hYPerSonic
http://arrowtheory.com/software/hypersonic/index.html
hYPerSonic is for building and manipulating sound processing
pipelines. It is designed for real-time control. It includes objects
for oscillators, filters, file-io, soundcard and memory operations.

pyTTS
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/uncassist
pyTTS is a Python wrapper for the Microsoft Speech API (SAPI). The
library requires Mark Hammond's  win32com extension and SAPI 5.1+.


see also: 
    The Vaults of Parnassus:
http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py/63131194
    Pypi: http://www.python.org/pypi?:action=browse&asdf=338


From andy at andybak.net  Mon Oct 18 13:10:48 2004
From: andy at andybak.net (Andy Baker)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 10:10:48 -0700
Subject: Python in HTAs
References: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
	<417308f9$0$8656$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <4989f73b.0410180910.2274a350@posting.google.com>

In addition to Marcel's comment I found this:
http://www.python.org/windows/win32com/ActiveXScripting.html

AFAIK when you register Python in this way it can be used in the same
way as VBScript and JScript...


From richie at entrian.com  Fri Oct 29 12:18:48 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:18:48 +0100
Subject: names of parameters as string
In-Reply-To: <3A2774E4-29C3-11D9-AA85-0003939C968C@unito.it>
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com>
	<41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>
	<m31xfh8uhy.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu>
	<3A2774E4-29C3-11D9-AA85-0003939C968C@unito.it>
Message-ID: <85r4o09vlod3900cen8oaksdum7sgt26ee@4ax.com>


[Andrea]
> I'd like to access the parameter list of a function

You can do it like this:

>>> def foo(foo_param1, foo_param2):
...   foo_local = foo_param1
...
>>> code = foo.func_code
>>> print code.co_varnames[:code.co_argcount]
('foo_param1', 'foo_param2')

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From b.niemann at betternet.de  Fri Oct  8 11:20:52 2004
From: b.niemann at betternet.de (Benjamin Niemann)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:20:52 +0200
Subject: Desactivating Python keywords and built-in functions
In-Reply-To: <f06d8508.0410080645.17341a82@posting.google.com>
References: <f06d8508.0410080645.17341a82@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck6b0l$12p$1@online.de>

Andr? Roberge wrote:
> In short:
> Is there a simple way to desactivate Python keywords and built-in
> keywords [e.g. eval()]
> 
> Longer description:
> I want to use a subset of Python as an embedded language and don't
> want the users to have access to the rest of the language.   One
> approach I thought of using would be something along the following
> lines:
> 
> read in the script for the user;
> scan for "forbidden" keywords or expression;
> if found, give an error message and stop;
> otherwise, let Python interpret the code.
> 
> Before I jump and start coding, I thought I would ask people that know
> more about these things than me
> (which means probably 97.2% of the readership of comp.lang.python  ;-)
In short:
there is no simple way :(

Various people have tried this but failed...
Python's dynamic nature is too powerful and sufficiently intelligent hackers 
will always find a way around your restrictions.


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct  4 14:17:00 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:17:00 -0700
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <41618E6F.5030403@fastmail.fm>
References: <20041004101511.FECD.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<41618E6F.5030403@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20041004110657.ECAC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> >Check out the tokenizer module.
> >
> Is this easy to use?  Are there good tutorials?

I don't know, I've never had the need, nor desire, to change Python
syntax.  Michael Sparks gave a good link though.

> >Python has no macro facilities.
> >
> Really?  I read that Python was just like Scheme in that it had macro 
> facilities.

Well, they are wrong.  The Python language has no 'macros' in the
language sense..  Applications have used Python for scripting and/or
'macros', but they are not 'macros' in the language sense.


> Great, thanks.

No problem.

 - Josiah



From tuo_pe at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 08:54:16 2004
From: tuo_pe at yahoo.com (Tuomas P)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 05:54:16 -0700
Subject: manipulating PDF-files with Python?
Message-ID: <994828d9.0410190454.3217bebf@posting.google.com>

Hello!

Are there any open source Python tools that one could manipulate
PDF-files with? By manipulation I mean, for instance, deleting or
adding or replacing  pages, etc.

Thanks for your time!

Tuomas


From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Wed Oct 27 11:25:58 2004
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 15:25:58 GMT
Subject: Interpretor.
References: <494182a9.0410261410.43cd5226@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncnvfg3.1mlf.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

Balaji <balaji at email.arizona.edu>
wrote on 26 Oct 2004 15:10:14 -0700:
> Hello Everyone....
> I have created a simple GUI using wx python. Its an simple editor...
> Now what I want to do is pass the contents of this editor and receive
> solution from python.
> Suppose in the editor if I say x=2 and y=3 and then x+y I should get
> back the solution.
> In general i want to build an simple interpretor..
> Any ideas....

  You already have one: Python!

>>> s = """x=2
... y=3
... rc=x+y"""
>>> exec(s)
>>> rc
5

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"I think [Robert Heinlein] would take it kindly if we were all to refrain from
 abandoning civilization as a failed experiment that requires too much hard
 work." -_Rah, Rah, RAH!_, by Spider Robinson


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Sat Oct 23 04:58:48 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 08:58:48 GMT
Subject: help with map function
References: <e4217d28.0410212343.524a71ce@posting.google.com>
	<Xns958A5BF66D2B0duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<1098471930.321850.283750@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1098473939.157578.16040@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns958B64A79D8DDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

 wrote:

>> I don't have any experience working with *args, **kw arguments.
>> From what I've read, *args allows for an unknown number of
>> arguments to passed into a function and **kw allows for an
>> unknown number of key-value pairs to passed into a function.
>> But from what I understand, both are optional.  This shouldn't
>> change the how you call apply_each.
> 
> I spoke too soon. If the function being called doesn't provide for
> *args, or **kw then a TypeError exception will be thrown.
> 
> 

The original apply_each expected you to use it something like this:

def fn1(a,b,c): ... whatever ...
def fn2(a,b,c): ... whatever ...

result = apply_each([fn1, fn2], [1, 2, 3])

A revised version:

def apply_each(fns, *args, **kw):
   return [ fn(*args, **kw) for fn in fns ]

could be called in a variety of ways:

result = apply_each([fn1, fn2], 1, 2, 3)
result = apply_each([fn1, fn2], *[1, 2, 3])
result = apply_each([fn1, fn2], a=1, c=3, b=2)
result = apply_each([fn1, fn2], **{'a': 1, 'c': 3, 'b': 2})

The functions actually being called don't need to know anything about how 
they are invoked, they just need to get a suitable combination of 
positional and/or keyword arguments.


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 13:53:34 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:53:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com> <41648bae$1@nntp.zianet.com>
	<41656DA0.5030509@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20041007T195058-238@post.gmane.org>

Steve Holden <steve <at> holdenweb.com> writes:
> 
> Of course that means that
> 
> 	(foo_d is None) or {}
> 
> works, giving you the best of both worlds.

I don't think this does what the OP wants it to:

>>> def f(x=None):
...     return (x is not None) or {}
...
>>> f()
{}
>>> f({})
True

Note that (x is not None) evaluates to True, not x.  Note that you can't solve 
this by introducing an 'and' either because {} evaluates to False in a boolean 
context:

>>> def f(x=None):
...     return x is not None and x or {}
...
>>> f()
{}
>>> d = {}
>>> f(d)
{}
>>> f(d) is d
False


(Another) Steve



From davep at dpawson.co.uk  Wed Oct  6 13:32:26 2004
From: davep at dpawson.co.uk (Dave Pawson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:32:26 +0100
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
In-Reply-To: <1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1097083946.3130.3.camel@homer>

On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 18:11, Alex Martelli wrote:
> Andr? N?ss <andre.naess at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > One thing I liked about Lisp was the ability to use the question mark
> > (and the exclamation mark) in function names. I found this
> > particularily useful when checking boolean properties of a object like
> > for example myObj.isContextSet. It just feels so much more natural to
> > write myObj.contextSet?
> 
> Even though I haven't used Lisp extensively, I agree with you.  Naming
> all predicates with a trailing question mark,

Makes for a nice readability feature, though lisp does have lots of 
inbuilt function, with functionp being the predicate form.
oddp
evenp
exp ... oops :-)

Yes, I like the Scheme idea of a ? suffix being the predicate :-)


-- 
Regards DaveP.
XSLT&Docbook  FAQ
http://www.dpawson.co.uk/xsl




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 03:47:22 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:47:22 +0200
Subject: detecting socket in use on localhost
References: <cjqssg$bh7$1@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <1gl4lmg.1das1ob1esi359N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Berends <j at jochem.{N0SP4M}.tv> wrote:

> I am looking for some code to detect whether or not there is already a
> listener to a socket (tcp or udp) on the localhost.

Hmmm, you mean to a _port_, I guess...?

> I am writing some software that can be run multiple times on a localhost
> and each will instantiate a listener in a range of ports. I have checked
> several resources (Cookbook, Python Network Programming (Goerzen), 
> Programming Python(Lutz)) but cannot find the crux.
> 
> Anyone care to point me to some nice methods?

If you need a cross-platform solution I think you'll need to adopt a
trial-and-error strategy.  Two main possibilities: try connecting to
that port and see if that succeeds (then there must be some listener) or
fails (then, probably no listener); try binding to that port and see if
that succeeds (then, no listener) or fails because nobody's listening.
In most situations I'd go for the latter, as the former may be less
reliable and might have undesired side effects (at a minimum, footprints
in the listener's logs); however, the latter may not be feasible if the
ports you want to check are privileged ones (<=1024 or whatever) and
your process lacks the necessary privileges.


Alex


From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Oct  4 10:47:24 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:47:24 +0200
Subject: Python and C#
In-Reply-To: <vy06duxaf28u$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
References: <10m2la510rpeq86@corp.supernews.com>
	<vy06duxaf28u$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>
Message-ID: <20041004144724.GA3148@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 03:59:33PM +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> py2exe is easier to setup but McMillan offers more functionality.

The old site www.mcmillan-inc.com is dead since months. Has Gordon disppeared
completely or is his stuff available somewhere else now?

-- Gerhard


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Wed Oct 13 12:41:03 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:41:03 -0400
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4866.1097680786.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>	<l9bbd.32143$3C6.1281680@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<mailman.4866.1097680786.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zUcbd.32564$3C6.1308279@news20.bellglobal.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> I don't think you're crazy. OTOH, defining 'ordering' is difficult. Is
> it the alphabethical ordering, or is it the ordering of insertion?

Insertion.  The point is that *there is* an order in the code.

> Either way is arbitrary and it not going to satisfy everyone.

The ordereddict object could provide a method to change the order of 
keys.  Right now, in configuration dictionaries I must do (simplified):

SomeConfig(['y', 'x'], {'y': 1, 'x': 2})
or
SomeConfig(MyOrderedDict([('y', 1), ('x', 2)]))

what I would like is to do:
SomeConfig(o{'y': 1, 'x': 2})

> I am beginning to get a glimpse of the theorethical implications of
> Python's metaclass design and implementation. It's an amazingly clever
> solution (the __metaclass__ magic name, I mean); but I suspect that it
> could be more powerful if there were a way to detect the metaclass
> *before* the class statement is first processed; in this way, the
> metaclass could provide a custom locals() dict, or implement other
> types of hook for the class being created. But this is really hard
> stuff, with implications beyond my current understanding, and I don't
> feel prepared to argue at python-dev about it, really.

I feel the same way.  I was thinking about writing a PEP for an 
ordereddict, suggesting in it that one of the applications could be the 
metaclasses.  An ordereddict could also contain a dict, and could be 
used only temporarily only during metaclass creation and after just keep 
the normal dictionary in it.

Regards,
Nicolas


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 21 18:25:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:25:28 +0200
Subject: Method Underscores? (and a 'solution')
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
	<pan.2004.10.21.15.09.51.156298@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <1gm17go.1r662ynelfha7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote:

> But what mystical language exists that uses less punctuation than Python?

Applescript, maybe.  'tell foo of bar to tweak zippo' where python would
have bar.foo.tweak(zippo), looks like.  (I'm not enthusiastic about the
idea, just pointing it out!-).


Alex


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Tue Oct 12 15:32:00 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:32:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
	<du7hdp0qv7s.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <ckhbfg$sne$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com> pisze:

>    john> Is there an equivalent of COM on Linux that I can get
>    john> through Python.
> 
> Mono appears to be the future of COM equivalent technologies on
> Linux. Python support just isn't stable/mature there yet.

>From my point of view, DCOP is perfect equivalent of COM. Mono (and
other dotnet implementations) may become some day.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Tue Oct 26 16:47:26 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:47:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Paid Research Project on Stackless 3.1
References: <mailman.5383.1098608837.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<8omdnbg6zNc00uHcRVn-iA@giganews.com>
	<20041025200909.GB28024@kostyrka.org>
	<mailman.5500.1098791512.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clmd4u$am0$3@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> pisze:

> Yes, but he's already made a downpayment with his contributions to the
> Python interpreter you have installed for free on your system.
> 
> $ find Python-2.3.4 -type f -print0 | xargs --null grep -i tismer | wc
> --lines
> 11
> 
> $ find Python-2.3.4 -type f -print0 | xargs --null grep -i istvan | wc
> --lines
> 0
> 
> $ find Python-2.3.4 -type f -print0 | xargs --null grep -i kostyrka | wc
> --lines
> 0
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> *plonk* and *plonk*

So I think you deserve one *plonk* more.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 20 18:05:48 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:05:48 +0200
Subject: reverse Jython
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.5172.1098197357.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41759f7d$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<1glyebd.1afm95x1ip4x1cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4176d995$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1glzby6.uw3a7gc95cxN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:

> > The latter is an aspect on which we _definitely_ plan to do much better
> > in the future, btw -- we have ambitious projects for dissemination of
> > information, enhanced documentation, easing the use of pypy for all sort
> > of teaching and research support.  But that doesn't resolve your issue
> > wrt the "suitable as part of academic work" (=="detached from real-world
> > usefulness"); we definitely DO plan to be real-world meaningful!-)
> 
> Please don't get me wrong. Academic work need not be detached from 
> real-world usefulness, in fact, academic work should have the potential
> to solve real-world problems. I guess it is the time. I think that 
> academics should tackle real-world issues when a self-sustaining level
> of core competency is there. It is certainly more difficult to craft an
> academic question out of a real-world situation than to craft one out of
> nothing. The latter can even be a case of grabbing a hypothetical 
> question from a text-book...

Hypothetical questions in good textbooks can be great ways to lead one
onto new ways of thinking, that's for sure.

But... it's said that Plato was once asked by a student, what good was
all this geometry they had to study (Plato made all students study
geometry first, as the best preparation of the mind for philosophy).
Plato called a slave and instructed him to give the student a gold coin
then throw the student out of the school.

There remains in academia an unconfessed sympathy for the Greek
position, exemplified by this anecdote, that real scholarship
_shouldn't_ be "good for something" -- it should be far from the grubby
preoccupation of everyday life, and in its own idealized spiritual
sphere.  Nobody in academia will speak this out loud, but, it IS, to
some extent, still in the background.

That's why some of us aren't in academia, often having tried it but
found it wanting, partly because of that.  The concept of something I've
done being actually practically useful to some people in their everyday
work, in their everyday life, is too important for me to give up.
Doesn't mean I can't explore blue-sky notions, but there's gotta be some
kind of hope that -- at least if I get real lucky and everything comes
out just right -- it WILL be useful.  That's why I'm an engineer, not a
scientist, I guess;-).


Alex


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Oct 22 12:53:35 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:53:35 +0200
Subject: How to get an encoding a value?
References: <mailman.5323.1098459379.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2tspdiF238hqeU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <clbdtg$mam$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> A common approach to guessing the encoding of said string is to try
> something like this:
> 
> s = <some string with unknown encoding>
> encodings ['ascii', 'latin1', 'utf-8', ....] # list of encodings you
> expect for e in encodings:
> try:
> if?s?==?s.decode(e).encode(e):
> break
> except?UnicodeError:
> pass

However, you must be very careful with the order in which to test the
encodings. The example code will never detect "utf-8":

>>> s = "".join(map(chr, range(256)))
>>> s.decode("latin1").encode("latin1") == s
True

This equality holds for every encoding where one byte is one character and
uses the full range of 256 bytes/characters. You cannot discriminate
between such encodings using the above method:

>>> s.decode("latin1").encode("latin1") == s
True
>>> s.decode("latin2").encode("latin2") == s
True
>>> s.decode("latin2") == s.decode("latin1")
False

A statistical approach seems more promising, e. g. some smart variant of
"looking for umlauts" in a text known to be German.

Peter






From mauriceling at acm.org  Tue Oct 19 18:38:16 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:38:16 GMT
Subject: reverse Jython
In-Reply-To: <1glwjc5.1n573ij1sh2nhiN%mark.asbach@post.rwth-aachen.de>
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<1glwjc5.1n573ij1sh2nhiN%mark.asbach@post.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <41759751@news.unimelb.edu.au>


> 
> If you need an interesting topic: why not write a just-in-time compiler
> for Python? 

JIT compiler for python sounds cool and I can see that it is an area of 
optimization by itself. However, my inadequacy in C and C++ will result 
in a poor piece of work, I think.

Maurice


From foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid  Tue Oct  5 16:29:23 2004
From: foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid (Thomas Rast)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 22:29:23 +0200
Subject: re bug
References: <3e96ebd7.0410050057.29a15174@posting.google.com>
	<87hdp94cc4.fsf@thomas.local>
	<mailman.4361.1096997821.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<877jq53v4k.fsf@thomas.local>
	<mailman.4370.1097005612.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87sm8s3o4c.fsf@thomas.local>

Gustavo Niemeyer <niemeyer at conectiva.com> writes:

> There's one space here. Your version doesn't expose the issue
> mentioned by the OP, as you may see by uncommenting the third
> test case.

For whatever reason, it doesn't show up in the newspost I see.
There's a newline at that position, but no space, and as I stated I
assumed the newlines were an artifact (since he used single quotes).
Maybe the gateway between news and mail dropped it?  In any case, I
stand corrected.  Unfortunately that also makes splitting the string a
moot point.

- Thomas

-- 
If you want to reply by mail, substitute my first and last name for
'foo' and 'bar', respectively, and remove '.invalid'.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 16:30:10 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:30:10 -0300
Subject: urllib2 documentation
In-Reply-To: <cjoacj$snt$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <cjngnm$pi5$1@sea.gmane.org> <cjoacj$snt$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <864d370904100313303ac89a70@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 03:39:35 -0400, Alexander Kervero
<vegeta.z at gmail.com> wrote:
>  mm, i need more than the urlopen method, and the python.org
>  documentation is not usefull enough, the library has strange ways of
>  working, i even started debuging it to kind of see how it works but
>  not much luck. I found a chapter in the book 'dive into python' using
>  it, but i still  dont fully understand how it works and how to use it
>  to its potential.

Sorry. Now I understand your pain :-) The documentation is really
missing when it comes to the architecture fo urllib2, and how to
customize it for different needs. I can't help you with regards to
this particular problem, though.

Best luck,


Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From ed18hg at brllsouth.net  Tue Oct 26 22:37:47 2004
From: ed18hg at brllsouth.net (ed18hg)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:37:47 -0400
Subject: MD5()
Message-ID: <HPDfd.114032$yp.72962@bignews1.bellsouth.net>

Hello,
I'm using this code to get the MD5 of the numbers 0-9. How can I loop 
through the combination of all lowercase letters and 0-9. I read in the 
documentation the string operation ascii_lowercase but I'm a bit confused on 
how to combine it with integers. Thanks in advance.

for i in xrange(10):
 import md5
 m=md5.new()
 m.update("%i"%i)
 print"i=",i,"md5(i)=",m.hexdigest() 




From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 13:11:42 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 10:11:42 -0700
Subject: DISLIN or gnuplot.py
References: <pan.2004.10.10.20.50.39.807116@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410110911.89ab0e5@posting.google.com>

Richard <none at pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.10.20.50.39.807116 at pacbell.net>...
> I am going to need to plot some data and formula results from Python.  A
> few years ago I used gnuplot (not from Python) and was wondering which
> Python plotting module I should use (learn)?
> 
> I have seen DISLIN mentioned on "onlamp.com" and see that gnuplot has a
> python module wrapper.
> 
> Any suggestions on Python plotting modules? (DISLIN or gnuplot.py or ????)
> 
> Thanks

Dunno about DISLIN; I have found easier to generate gnuplot code from
Python
than using gnuplot.py (since I already knew the gnuplot language). But
maybe it is just me ;)

         Michele Simionato


From macrocosm at fastmail.fm  Wed Oct  6 13:09:02 2004
From: macrocosm at fastmail.fm (Arich Chanachai)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 13:09:02 -0400
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <tyfbrfgcoa4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>	<UWt8d.3156$UP1.2886@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<mailman.4352.1096990836.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfbrfgcoa4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <416426AE.5070803@fastmail.fm>

<SNIP>

>>In ObjC it would be send the message y with value z to object X
>>Say X doesn't know what to do with y
>>specified in X's code are instruction that tell it what object to pass
>>the message y to...say...U for example
>>
>>So the message has been passed and basically translates into U.y(z) or
>>in ObjC [U y:z]
>>    
>>
>
>You mean some refinement of this sort of thing:
>
>    class X(object):
>    
>        a = "lives in X"
>    
>        def __getattr__(self, name):
>            return getattr(U,name)
>    
>    class U(object):
>    
>        b = "lives in Y"
>    
>    x = X()
>    print x.a
>    print x.b
>
>?
>  
>
Sure, but what if I dynamically (at runtime) extend X to include 
variable b.  Will it then print X.b or still U.b?


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 14:32:15 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:32:15 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4759.1097598197.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4728.1097533233.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mmh9i511urd2c@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4759.1097598197.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10mqt0kgd0ass71@corp.supernews.com>

Clark C. Evans wrote:

>Instead of arguing against lambda, which is already in the core language
>and used by many people, perhaps you could suggest a syntax improvement
>that would make lambda more understandable?  Your're advocating taking
>away a very nice tool without proposing a resonable replacement.
>

To be a bit more accurate, I'm not so much advocating its removal, as I 
am concurring with the "powers that be" who've already been discussing 
dropping it from Py3K.  Several people were bemoaning that (rumored) 
decision; I was merely pointing out that I can understand why they're 
(supposedly) doing so, and that I don't think that it's the sort of loss 
that some are claiming.  Even if you convince me that lambdas *are* 
amazingly useful... well, it doesn't accomplish anything, because I'm 
not influencing anyone to drop lambdas, I'm just agreeing with the 
people who are already dropping lambdas.

(And for the record -- yes,  I can now see a few special cases in which 
lambdas do improve clarity.  It still seems, however, that these are 
definitely special cases and are therefore not special enough to break 
the rules.  I do feel that the introduction of lambdas broke a number of 
Python's rules.  Once again, lambdas may offer local maxima in clarity, 
but at a cost in global clarity.  Reputedly, GvR also feels that lambdas 
break Python's rules, and he's becoming pickier about breaking the rules 
as Python matures... thus the discussion of dropping them in Py3K.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Sun Oct 17 18:41:31 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:41:31 +0200
Subject: Python in HTAs
References: <98862c6.0410171325.352a5df4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <417308f9$0$8656$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

I search also this solution : use Python in .HTA
There are a "active scripting" in PyWin (from Mark Hammond). But I had never
can use it.
I actually use Python via a COM-server, and I add, in .HTA, Javascript
scripts for dialog. It's playable (by COM, I can also pass, like parameter,
array in javascript like list in Python, it's fun).

But if you can to do better, I am very very interesting.

@-salutations (and sorry for my bad english)
-- 
Michel Claveau
m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B




PS : see, also, in the directory axscript, in pywin (site-packages) ; or the
file 'calc.htm'






From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Oct 25 15:48:55 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:48:55 -0700
Subject: fastest table lookup
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5439.1098729682.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5439.1098729682.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10nqm0t279plbb3@corp.supernews.com>

Neal D. Becker wrote:

>I need a fairly small lookup table, and I'm wondering which data python data
>structure would be fastest.  I could use a list, tuple, dictionary, numeric
>array, or maybe plain python array.  The table would be indexed by simple
>integers and would be dense (filled).
>  
>

Which data structure will be fastest depends to some degree on the exact 
usage that it's being put to, but in most cases I expect that a 
dictionary will be the best bet.  IIRC, list (and tuple) indexing is 
O(n) (with n=len(list)), while dictionary references are O(1).  In some 
circumstances, it may (or may not) be possible to achieve further 
speedup by using a python array or numarray, but unless you're already 
planning on using numarray for other things, I'd consider its usage for 
a lookup table to be a premature optimization.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct 28 16:15:35 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:15:35 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <20041028195458.GF19311@unpythonic.net>
References: <20041028102350.0BA3.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<20041028195458.GF19311@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20041028131321.0BA9.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 10:47:35AM -0700, Josiah Carlson wrote:
[snip my code]
> Is there a reason you didn't use 'if __debug__' here?
> 
>     class BoundedInt(object):
>         ...
>         if __debug__:
>             def __new__ ...
>         else:
>             def __new__ ...


Yes, I didn't know about it.


 - Josiah



From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Wed Oct  6 06:38:49 2004
From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (Jon Nicoll)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 03:38:49 -0700
Subject: Python Patterns
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4162ef68$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4409.1097042612.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl88is.1sxl7371uqtnyzN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e4eaecf8.0410060238.39aff81e@posting.google.com>

aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message 

[...]
> I think I'll do the book myself, or with one well-identified co-author,
> though of course I'll put up pieces in more discursive form to get
> feedback &c...
> 

It's a quote from someone else on c.l.p, but applies here, I think:

"I would buy two copies of any book written by Alex Martelli, sight unseen..."

Go for it Alex!

    Regards
    Jon N


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 14:08:51 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 18:08:51 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.5432.1098719901.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417d2543$0$45533$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj9du$l12$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <417d4133$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-25, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> I think talking to an author and maybe offering a moderate fee if you want
> terms more favourable to your purpose shouldn't be too much.
>
> Otherwise you have to stick to modules with BSD/MIT/Python Licenses

Or LGPL, which was intended for this specific situation.

> - not that rare in Python land.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I am having FUN... I
                                  at               wonder if it's NET FUN or
                               visi.com            GROSS FUN?


From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Tue Oct 26 13:08:23 2004
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:08:23 +0200
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
References: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
Message-ID: <20041026170823.2022.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

Fred Pacquier wrote:

 
> Is there a ready-made tool that fills this need ?

I don't know any, but writing such is not a big problem - python has builtin
support for pop3 and mail processing (examples are in its documentation),
so just download mail, pipe it through spamassassin and eventually delete
from server.

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl

My drinking team has a soccer problem.


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 26 23:28:57 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 20:28:57 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com><_aadnTCr7PWKYeHcRVn-rg@powergate.ca>	<940ee3e8.0410251927.38347d92@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5480.1098763791.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410261928.42db1cd4@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.5480.1098763791.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> "kartik" <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> news:940ee3e8.0410251927.38347d92 at posting.google.com...
> > 1)catching overflow bugs in the language itself frees u from writing
> > overflow tests.
> 
> It is a fundamental characteristic of counts and integers that adding 1 is 
> always valid.  Given that, raising an overflow exception is itself a bug, 
> one that Python had and has now eliminated.
> 
> If one wishes to work with residue classes mod n, +1 is also still always 
> valid.  It is just that (n-1) + 1 is 0 instead of n.  So again, raising an 
> overflow error is a bug.

i don't care what mathematical properties are satisfied; what matters
is to what extent the type system helps me in writing bug-free code

> [...]However, the limit n could be 
> anything, so fixing it at, say, 2**31 - 1 is almost always useless.

i dont think so. if it catches bugs that cause numbers to increase
beyond 2**31, that's valuable.
> The use of fixed range ints is a space-time machine performance hack that 
> has been costly in human thought time.

on what basis do u say that

-kartik


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Wed Oct 13 14:26:40 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:26:40 -0400
Subject: failed delivery messages
In-Reply-To: <1097690562.12092.226.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <1097682390.12092.183.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>	
	<416D59D6.4020209@cloudthunder.com>	
	<1097689030.12092.220.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>	
	<416D6F39.9000606@cloudthunder.com>
	<1097690562.12092.226.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <416D7360.7070209@cloudthunder.com>

<SNIP>

>Yep, at least last time I checked.
>
>  
>
I setup thunderbird to automatically delete that email.  It seems to 
work so far.


From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct 30 02:32:18 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:32:18 -0700
Subject: ReportLab newbie
References: <2uac8bF2802bfU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<gqv0o0h6h0b8gcf6ba2sl965evrnravagq@4ax.com>
	<2ubo8sF2999dfU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <rad6o01ut3dhog8avp81t6u0i71ptug5pc@4ax.com>

Damjan <gdamjan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>it seems that I can't register "Arial" as fontname since Reportlab does it
>automatically... in the end, fontname = 'MyArial' did fine.

Yes, but since ReportLab has already done this for you, why would you do it
yourself?
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From eugene at boardkulture.com  Fri Oct 29 23:24:13 2004
From: eugene at boardkulture.com ( EuGeNe )
Date: 29 Oct 2004 20:24:13 -0700
Subject: FTP file creation date
References: <de8687be.0410270727.12eb2d3b@posting.google.com>
	<suk2o0hauucul1rp6iatqvlegsftm31709@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <de8687be.0410291924.457c91d0@posting.google.com>

Ron, and all,

Thanks for your help! It is working :P

Cheers,

EuGeNe


From DrColombes at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 10:32:33 2004
From: DrColombes at yahoo.com (Dr. Colombes)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 07:32:33 -0700
Subject: MatPlotLib question: How to get more different size plot symbols ?
Message-ID: <d1f3d1d3.0410190632.18196690@posting.google.com>

MatPlotLib question:  How to get more different size plot symbols in
the plot function ?

Is there a way to get different size squares (or circles or triangles,
etc.) ?

For example, in a two dimensional plot of heights and weights of
individuals, is there a way to represent also the age of the
individual by the size of the plot symbol ?

Thanks for your help.


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 09:43:59 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 06:43:59 -0700
Subject: locks
In-Reply-To: <qa-dnWDkDKi-uPDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4835.1097670275.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qa-dnWDkDKi-uPDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1097675039.12092.117.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 08:52 -0400, Peter L Hansen wrote:
> Cliff Wells wrote:
> > On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 14:11 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> >>"brutally" serializes (hopefully) all accesses to python data-structures -
> > 
> > Nope.  It doesn't do this.  For access to items such as integers you are
> > probably fine, but for things like lists, dictionaries, class
> > attributes, etc, you're on your own.  The GIL only ensures that two
> > threads won't be executing Python bytecode simultaneously.  It locks the
> > Python *interpreter*, not your program or data structures.
> > 
> >>so e.g. running several threads, appending to the same list, won't result
> >>in messing up the internal list structure causing segfaults or the like.
> > 
> > True, you won't get segfaults.  However, you may very well get a
> > traceback or mangled data.
> > 
> >>That makes programming pretty easy, at the cost of lots of waiting for the
> >>individual threads.
> > 
> > Threading in Python is pretty easy, but certainly not *that* easy.  
> 
> Cliff, do you have any references, or even personal experience to
> relate about anything on which you comment above?

I'm no expert on Python internals but it seems clear that an operation
such as [].append() is going to span multiple bytecode instructions.  It
seems to me that if those instructions span the boundary defined by
sys.getcheckinterval() that the operation won't happen in a single
thread context switch (unless the interpreter has explicit code to keep
the entire operation within a single context).

I'm no expert at dis nor Python bytecode, but I'll give it a shot :)

>>> l = []
>>> dis.dis(l.append(1))
134           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (findlabels)
              3 LOAD_FAST                0 (code)
              6 CALL_FUNCTION            1
              9 STORE_FAST               5 (labels)
 

... 
<snip dis spitting out over 500 lines of bytecode>
...
 
172     >>  503 PRINT_NEWLINE
            504 JUMP_ABSOLUTE           33
        >>  507 POP_TOP
            508 POP_BLOCK
        >>  509 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
            512 RETURN_VALUE
>>>


It looks fairly non-atomic to me.  It's certainly smaller than the
default value for sys.getcheckinterval() (which defaults to 1000, iirc),
but that's hardly a guarantee that the operation won't cross the
boundary for a context switch (unless, as I mentioned above, the
interpreter has specific code to prevent the switch until the operation
is complete <shrug>).

I recall a similar discussion about three years ago on this list about
this very thing where people who know far more about it than I do flamed
it out a bit, but damned if I recall the outcome :P  I do recall that it
didn't convince me to alter the approach I recommended to the OP.

> In my experience, and to my knowledge, Python threading *is*
> that easy (ignoring higher level issues such as race conditions
> and deadlocks and such), and the GIL *does* do exactly what Diez
> suggests, and you will *not* get tracebacks nor (again, ignoring
> higher level issues) mangled data.

Okay, to clarify, for the most part I *was* in fact referring to "higher
level issues".  I doubt tracebacks or mangled data would occur simply
due to the operation's being non-atomic.  However, if you have code that
say, checks for an item's existence in a list and then appends it if it
isn't there, it may cause the program to fail if another thread adds
that item between the time of the check and the time of the append.
This is what I was referring to by potential for mangled data and/or
tracebacks.

> You've tentatively upset my entire picture of the CPython (note,
> CPython only) interpreter's structure and concept.  Please tell
> me you were going a little overboard to protect a possible
> newbie from himself or something.

Certainly protecting the newbie, but not going overboard, IMHO.  I've
written quite a number of threaded Python apps and I religiously
acquire/release whenever dealing with mutable data structures (lists,
etc).  To date this approach has served me well.  I code fairly
conservatively when it comes to threads as I am *absolutely* certain
that debugging a broken threaded application is very near the bottom of
my list of favorite things ;)

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Mon Oct 18 19:19:43 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:19:43 +0100
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5138.1098132727.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5138.1098132727.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl1j2i$1ta$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> 
> What do you all think? I've been using a class-based variant of this in
> production code (business app) for six months now, and have found it
> extremely helpful. I saw a pointer to itertools today and figured a
> function-based version might be nice to include in that module someday.

Could you give a real-world example of its use?
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Oct  5 12:36:04 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan "Python" Perl)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:36:04 -0400
Subject: Miscellaneous personal prejudices (was: Dr. Dobb's
	Python-URL!-weekly Python news and links (Oct 4))
References: <mailman.4350.1096990180.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <IPSdncMsiOrlUP_cRVn-hw@rogers.com>


> "Robert Brewer" <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote in message 
> news:mailman.4350.1096990180.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Ville Vainio wrote:
>> >>>>> "Dan" == Dan Perl <danperl at rogers.com> writes:
>>
>>     Dan> "What do I have to say to get into the QOTW?"
>>
>> Change your last name?
>
> +1 QOTW.

Or how about this:
    ">>>>> "Dan" == Dan Perl <danperl at rogers.com> writes:
        Dan> "What do I have to say to get into the QOTW?"
        Dan>  Dan Perl, on his own personal prejudices
    Change your last name?"
        Ville Vainio, on his personal prejudice against Dan Perl's last name

Or what about this one:
    "Or how about this:
        '>>>>> "Dan" == Dan Perl <danperl at rogers.com> writes:
            Dan> "What do I have to say to get into the QOTW?"
            Dan>  Dan Perl, on his own personal prejudices
        Change your last name?'
            Ville Vainio, on his personal prejudice against Dan Perl's last 
name"
                Dan Perl, desperately trying to get into the QOTW

Please notice I tried to use a "Python-like" indentation.

Dan "Python" Perl
Perl is my last name but Python is my middle name? 




From sridharinfinity at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 14:08:54 2004
From: sridharinfinity at gmail.com (Sridhar  R)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 11:08:54 -0700
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <1098554934.964726.144080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

www.nevow.com



From matthiasjanes at gmx.net  Thu Oct  7 02:26:58 2004
From: matthiasjanes at gmx.net (matthiasjanes)
Date: 6 Oct 2004 23:26:58 -0700
Subject: difficult zipefile Question
References: <d588131f.0410061437.4ecda4bf@posting.google.com>
	<ck1tfn$q64$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <d588131f.0410062226.165e914d@posting.google.com>

Michael Hoffman <m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote in message news:<ck1tfn$q64$1 at gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>...
> matthiasjanes wrote:
> > def zipit(path, ziper):
> > 
> >   for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):
> > 
> >     for anyFile in files:
> > 
> >       fullname = os.path.join(root, anyFile)
> 
> Where is the "ziper" variable used? I don't see how this code does 
> anything except create an empty zipfile.
> 


Sorry I did not post all the code:

#sample code

import os, zipfile, string

def zipit(path, ziper):
        for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):

            for anyFile in files:

                fullname = os.path.join(root, anyFile)
                archiveName = string.lstrip( fullname,path + "\\" )

                ziper.write(fullname, archiveName, zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED )


if __name__ == '__main__':

    ziper = zipfile.ZipFile('test.zip', 'w')
    zipit('somefolderTozip', ziper)
    ziper.close()
#______________________

all seems to work - just empty subfolders are gone.

I checkt it out - 7-zip for instance keps also empty subfolders.

maybe someone has an idea.

thanks MrJanes


From sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr  Wed Oct 20 20:19:32 2004
From: sxanth at ceid.upatras.gr (Stelios Xanthakis)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:19:32 -0700
Subject: The shell in the xterm
Message-ID: <newscache$tgzv5i$99i$1@asterix.tee.gr>

Hi.

I'm trying to open an xterm in slave mode connected
to a pseudo tty with an interactive python shell.
This can be useful when working in a GUI to pop up
xterm'd shells. The program below is a first attempt.
It opens an xterm with an interactive python interpreter
in which we can even run "os.system ('bash')" and
call vi. However there are problems...

------------------------------------------------------
import os
import code
import thread
import time
import sys

STDIN_FILENO = 0
STDOUT_FILENO = 1
STDERR_FILENO = 2

CHILD = 0

def openpty ():
     for x in 'pqrstuvwxyzPQRST':
         for y in '0123456789abcdef':
             pty_name = '/dev/pty' + x + y
             try:
                 fd = os.open(pty_name, os.O_RDWR)
             except os.error:
                 continue
             return (fd, '/dev/tty' + x + y)

def slave_open(tty_name):
     result = os.open(tty_name, os.O_RDWR)
     try:
         from fcntl import ioctl, I_PUSH
     except ImportError:
         return result
     try:
         ioctl(result, I_PUSH, "ptem")
         ioctl(result, I_PUSH, "ldterm")
     except IOError:
         pass
     return result

def fork():
     master_fd, slave_fdn = openpty()
     slave_fd = slave_open (slave_fdn)
     pid = os.fork()
     if pid == CHILD:
         # Establish a new session.
         os.setsid()
         os.close(master_fd)

         # Slave becomes stdin/stdout/stderr of child.
         os.dup2(slave_fd, STDIN_FILENO)
         os.dup2(slave_fd, STDOUT_FILENO)
         os.dup2(slave_fd, STDERR_FILENO)
         if (slave_fd > STDERR_FILENO):
             os.close (slave_fd)

     # Parent and child process.
     return pid, master_fd, slave_fdn

def thrr (cmd):
     thread.start_new_thread (os.system, (cmd,))

pid, fd, n = fork ()

if pid > 0:
    print 'parent, reading', n[8:]
    cmd = 'xterm -S'+n[8:]+str (fd)
    thrr (cmd)
    time.sleep (3)
    print "Send a command to the xterm!"
    os.write (fd, 'print "Hi!"\n')
    time.sleep (10)
    print "leave..."
else:
     code.interact ()
     print "terminated"
     sys.exit (1)
---------------------------------------

This is wrong. The fact that the interactive interpreter is executed in 
a different process, means that it has its own data and cannot modify 
the main program's state.

If we use threads, because of CLONE_FILES, we can't connect the
thread's stdin/stdout to the pty.

There are other problems, like xterm complaining that it cannot
'stat /dev/pts/p0', how do we kill the xterm once the
code.interact() terminates, zombies, etc.

I'm confused. Ideas?

Stelios


From nospam at nospam.com  Mon Oct 25 13:37:51 2004
From: nospam at nospam.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:37:51 +0200
Subject: OSA Python
Message-ID: <417d39ec$0$62032$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>

Hello,

I'm new on this list. I am looking for the OSA Python extension 
for MacOS 9. The MacOS X version can be downloaded here:

<http://home.pacbell.net/fancher/OSA_Python/OSAPython_1.0.a5.dmg.sit>

but I need the MacOS 9 version, because I want to do this:

<http://home.pacbell.net/fancher/OSA_Python/Hypercard.GIF>

If you have the OSA Python extension or know where to get it, 
could you please contact me at pythonosa(a)schonewille.cjb.net?

Thanks!

Mark

-- 

eHUG coordinator
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.ehug.info



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Oct 12 00:20:35 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:20:35 +0200
Subject: Regular expression for matching IPA characters in Unicode?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4697.1097497253.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4697.1097497253.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <416b5b90$0$162$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Mickel Gr?nroos wrote:
> Which is the best way of checking that a given unicode string only 
> contains IPA characters, e.g. characters in the range \u0250-\u02AF?

The regular expression for that is [\u0250-\u02AF]. You can either make
the regular expression a Unicode string itself, or you can make it a
normal (byte) string, and put the backslash-u-number sequence into it
(e.g. with double-backslash quotation).

Regards,
Martin


From danperl at rogers.com  Tue Oct 12 15:40:37 2004
From: danperl at rogers.com (Dan Perl)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:40:37 -0400
Subject: How to: get list of modules in a package
References: <4OudnSEQhLvFyfbcRVn-pg@rogers.com><dfWdnaXpKtgvb_bcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>	<mailman.4757.1097594848.5135.python-list@python.org><Ev-dnS1wxIC7hfHcRVn-tQ@rogers.com>
	<mailman.4767.1097608127.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <DrOdnXXU2_rZrvHcRVn-vw@rogers.com>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.4767.1097608127.5135.python-list at python.org...
> Dan Perl wrote:
>
>>What a tease!  "It definitely has been done in the past", so there must be 
>>a way, but you're not telling us how you did that!  :-)
>>
> Ah, apparently I wasn't clear enough in my quoted antecedent :) , I was 
> referring to Peter's comment that he'd not seen anyone produce modules 
> 'from "thin air"', rather than to whether this could be solved in the 
> general case.  I was backing him up in his assertion that there's no 
> *general* way to solve the problem, rather than attempting to contradict 
> him :)  (those Canucks get dangerous when contradicted).

Got it now!  And what do you mean "those" Canucks?  From the email address 
you seem to be Canadian too!  Not to mention that I am Canadian!

> If you mean you wanted to know how to do the module-from-thin-air thing, 
> the code for mcf.vrml is available on sourceforge, so it's not like I'm 
> hiding it ;) , but I doubt you'd want to use that particular pattern 
> anymore :) .

No, thanks, that's not what I wanted, and thanks for confirming Peter's 
reply.  I can move on with my own solution.

Dan

> Have fun,
> Mike




From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 20 11:48:09 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:48:09 +0200
Subject: itertools candidate: warehouse()
References: <mailman.5179.1098204696.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl61at$s81$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
>> Robert Brewer wrote:
>> > def warehouse(stock, factory=None):
>> 
>> Most of the building blocks for the warehouse() are already
>> there, but you didn't use them, oddly enough.
> 
> Oddly enough, tee isn't in my version (2.3.2) of Python except as an
> example. ;)

Neither is warehouse(). But I get your point. 
And now, just for fun, a 2.3-compliant version:

>>> from itertools import *
>>> def peek(iterable):
...     it = iter(iterable)
...     try:
...             first = it.next()
...     except StopIteration:
...             raise ValueError("cannot peek into an empty iterable")
...     return chain([first], it), first
...
>>> data, first = peek("abc")
>>> first, list(data)
('a', ['a', 'b', 'c'])
 
>> after putting a copy of these recipes into your
>> site-packages. Why aren't they already there, btw?
> 
> I'm not sure which particular recipes you mean (peek?). But in general,

Sorry that was confusing. I meant that the functions from the recipes page
in the documentation should also be available as a module in the
distribution, perhaps with a warning that they might change "without prior
notice".

> I don't write scripts for my own limited use; I'm writing frameworks,
> which shouldn't depend upon little recipes scattered hither and yon. :/

I think you're right. Sometimes, however, you have the chance to build the
higher-level stuff from those nifty itertools functions that do only one
thing, but fast. And that should be as much fun as the interpreter etudes
I've come to like.

Peter





From ville at spammers.com  Mon Oct 18 08:46:56 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 15:46:56 +0300
Subject: Eric3 + Qt licensing [was Re: The IDE question]
References: <mailman.5038.1097927312.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<du7zn2malsn.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mo7c42-692.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <du7vfd8w5vj.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> writes:

    >> Incentive to change the OS mostly works for home users, it
    >> would have to be pretty damn convincing to make a corporation
    >> with standardized desktop PCs to make the switch.

    Michael> Again: This depends. I vaguely remember a study saying
    Michael> that benefits of Linux on desktop systems are highest for
    Michael> large corporations.

I can believe that, but it was not the issue. The issue is that an
individual Qt application that is only freely available on Linux
probably isn't going to be an incentive to change the desktop computer
infrastructure for the whole company. So in the end it means that the
application is not going to be used at all, which is a shame in the
case of a good application.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From lonetwin at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 07:39:22 2004
From: lonetwin at gmail.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:09:22 +0530
Subject: globally available objects
In-Reply-To: <2uemltF28oaedU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.5650.1099046060.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2uemltF28oaedU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <5a309bd30410290439a5a53f0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Diez,

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:58:19 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch <deetsnospam at web.de> wrote:
> Steve wrote:
> 
> >
> > ehe ...am I making sense to anyone else here ??
> 
> You do, but if you put the same amount of time writing this message in
> writing a simple test module for yourself and importing it, you've had seen
> that it in fact works the way you want it: a module is only imported once.
Yes I did know that, however, I was not sure if objects that are
created during imports would be the same. Anyways, I did create a test
scriptlets and verified that it indeed is that way !!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[steve at sfernandez20 ~]$ cat foo.py 
print "calling file().read()"
s = file('test').read()

[steve at sfernandez20 ~]$ cat first.py 
#!/usr/bin/python
from foo import s
print id(s)

[steve at sfernandez20 ~]$ cat second.py
#!/usr/bin/python
from foo import s
print id(s)

[steve at sfernandez20 ~]$ python

Python 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40) 
[GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 
>>> import first, second
calling file().read()
1077624320
1077624320
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> No offense intended, btw - I just wanted to point out that in python its
> common to simply fire up the interpreter and poke around to test things.

No offense taken, thanks for the suggestion. I did try some tests but
with the wrong intent. I guess I just got bogged down with the actual
way to emulate the behaviour (tried overloading __import__ and stuff
like that). Guess I need more coffee !!

In any case, I still would like to have a look at Pierre singleton
implementation,

Regards
Steve


From http  Mon Oct 11 21:39:51 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 18:39:51 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>
	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmm29m.8la.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<10mm6o6si5mdqac@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmmago.d76.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <7x8yac90k8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> writes:
> that it lacks a more powerful closure construct. For instance, on the dev
> list, as quickly as the new "sort(key=lambda x: x[1])" idiom was introduced,
> people started hunting for ways to squash the lambda, the winners being
> "operator.attrgetter()" and "operator.itemgetter()". 

But why would you want to need to remember such obscure functions?  I
never heard of any of those.  Maybe they should be eliminated instead of
lambda.  There should be one obvious way to do it, and lambda suffices.


From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Oct 10 00:23:03 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 04:23:03 GMT
Subject: help me
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4657.1097381009.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <9c3edc58.0410091345.7daea444@posting.google.com>	<3cfekk7k1ia.fsf@nemi.ping.uio.no>	<mailman.4646.1097373842.5135.python-list@python.org>	<bM1ad.8006$UP1.5707@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<4168AD38.8080209@cloudthunder.com>	<4168ADAB.8080708@kzoo.edu>
	<mailman.4657.1097381009.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HO2ad.8118$UP1.2077@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Richard Blackwood wrote:
 > On the
> other hand, you could also use eval w/ the globals dictionary.  I don't 
> think that has any problems but Andrew can correct me on this one.

I gave an example of assigning to 'raw_input'.  Most
likely not something you want people to change.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid  Tue Oct  5 07:46:19 2004
From: foo.bar at freesurf.ch.invalid (Thomas Rast)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 13:46:19 +0200
Subject: re bug
References: <3e96ebd7.0410050057.29a15174@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87hdp94cc4.fsf@thomas.local>

klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de (Klaus Neuner) writes:

> The regex rx compiles. It can be used to search the strings str1 and
> str2. Yet, when used with str3, the program will not terminate for
> days.

Here's a more readable version of the regexp in question (I assume the
newlines were introduced by your mail program and not part of the
original string), which should be equivalent to your form if compiled
with the re.VERBOSE flag:

'''
(?:^|\ )
(?P<ALLES>
   (?:
      [^/ ]*/[^/ ]*/
      (?:                 # why a group?
         cn
         (?: :[^/ #]+ )*
      )
   )*
   [^/ ]*/[^/ ]*/
   (?:                    # why a group?
      cn
      (?: :[^: /#]+ )* 
      :2
      (?: :[^: /#]+ )*
      :3
      (?: :[^: /#]+ )*
   )
)
(?=(\ |$))
'''

Judging from the number of '*' and '+' quantifiers, the long search
time may be due to excessive backtracking as the regexp engine tries
to find a match.

[Now that I'm looking this through for the N-th time over, maybe it's
not, maybe you really found a bug.  But I've already written the part
below and don't want to waste the time I invested in analysing your
regexp by not posting it...]

> At the time being, I can neither avoid these regular expressions, nor
> can I afford to wait days for the result of my program.

Your example imposes a very strong structure on a possible match: It
consists of small "tokens" (for lack of a better word) delimited by
'/' and ':'.  Try simplifying the regexp to something like (re.VERBOSE
again):

'''
(
 [^ /]*/[^ /]*/    # two "tokens" followed by a slash each
 cn
 (:[^ /:]+)*       # "tokens" that start with a colon
)*
'''

then .split() the string you're trying to search (this is a far more
efficient way of expressing your "boundary conditions") and .match()
against each of the words.  If you have a match, check if it fits the
rest of the requirements, i.e. look for the :2 and :3 tokens etc.

HTH
Thomas

-- 
If you want to reply by mail, substitute my first and last name for
'foo' and 'bar', respectively, and remove '.invalid'.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Oct 23 10:01:00 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:01:00 -0400
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <QPmdndr7xOOG-efcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>

bearophile wrote:
> Cliff Wells:
>>Why not just use "/"?
> 
> Okay, I'll use os.path.normcase to convert them.

That's not necessary in almost all cases.  Windows happily(*)
accepts forward slashes in all system calls.  The only place
it does not is in the *shell* (aka command.com and cmd.exe).
That means paths passed as arguments to os.system or the
Popen gang need to be normcased, but for things like open()
you don't need to bother.

-Peter

(*) There are theories that although Windows does accept
forward slashes, it does so only grudgingly.


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 00:18:34 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 04:18:34 GMT
Subject: Mandis Quotes (aka  retiring """ and ''')
In-Reply-To: <1db750f5.0410041918.54d3e8d1@posting.google.com>
References: <1db750f5.0410040645.352cd68c@posting.google.com>
	<FXf8d.2597$M05.1234@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1db750f5.0410041918.54d3e8d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ugp8d.3140$M05.411@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Russell Nelson wrote:
> You are cruel .... and vicious.

Ummm, okay.  I would say it's due to too many years
working with unforgiving computers and reading standards
meant for computers.

>>I was going to say it precludes reading in a huge block
>>of bytes (>1GB in size) and quoting it because you'll need
>>to buffer everything in memory.  Then I remembered string
>>concatenation.  Process 1MB at a time.
> 
> 
> Sure, they're not hard to parse.  LALR(1).

It isn't the lookahead I was worried about, it was
the requirement to keep a lot of data in memory
before being able to work on it.

> No question but that an editor should be helpful.

Right.  Though as Jeff Epler pointed out, that helpful
editor could even work with the current Python syntax.
There's nothing to say that what the user sees on
the screen much match the representation on disk.  Leo,
and of course THE show that.

> This is more of a text editor problem than anything else.  In THE,
> when you select something, the invisible characters get rendered
> visibly.  Other editors can do similar things.  When we get to a 100%
> Unicode world, they'll have to do something.  Same thing for Unicode
> glyphs that get presented identically.

Which is why I gave an example of 7 or so different
characters which can be considered whitespace.  I could
have added the combining character to the list, or the
flags to switch direction (as with a mix of English and
Hebrew).  Will all those be shown as different characters?
Or some other way?

To bring it around to THE/HUMANE.  Suppose I have the
unicode character \N{SECTION SIGN}.  That's the paragraph
symbol.  I believe THE uses to indicate the end of paragraph
during a LEAP search.  How then do I search for that
character embedded in THE?

The problem is that any character you use to represent
one of the otherwise hidden characters may itself be the
target of a search.  Given too the difficulty of actually
typing the SECTION SIGN character it's likely easier to
search based on the unicode name rather than the actual
character as typed via the keyboard.  Perhaps the better
solution is that a LEAP search show the underlying unicode
name rather than the glyph.  But that would depend on the
keyboard mode, because on a US keyboard I would like to
be able to search for "G?teborg" by typing "Goteborg"
(Noah Spurrier's "Unicode Hammer" approach) while a Swede
would prefer to type the ? directly and not have o and
? match the same letter.

Hmm... And as I recall THE already needs to know the keyboard
layout because of its LEAP key emulation via shift-space
keypresses.  Because the shift key stays down it needs to
know that * and 8 are on the same key, while a Swedish
keyboard has ( and 8 on the same key.  So maybe there's
already work done along this route?  And it would need
to know about the Alt-Gr key for some keyboards.  Grrr!

Tangenting here, the THE docs talk about doing a LEAP
search forwards.  When fails the computer beeps.  The
docs are pretty emphatic about the beep saying that it
needs to be used by blind people.  But what about deaf
people?  Wouldn't a screen flash be more appropriate for
that case?  I also couldn't figure out why a search
failure causes the search to abort.  In EMACS when the
failure occurs I can backspace in case I made a typo
at the failure point.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From olli at haluter.fromme.com  Tue Oct 26 10:17:39 2004
From: olli at haluter.fromme.com (Oliver Fromme)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 14:17:39 GMT
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5321.1098456297.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u45bhF263o38U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5430.1098718895.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2u74k3F277sd4U1@uni-berlin.de>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> wrote:
 > Oliver Fromme <olli <at> haluter.fromme.com> writes:
 > > For example, a function can take an argument that is
 > > either an integer or a string (or a list or whatever)
 > > and it does _not_ have to be known at compile time
 > > which of those is the case.  But the compiler _does_
 > > ensure that the function will work correctly for every
 > > case (by checking that the pattern matching covers
 > > every case, and within each case, the respective type
 > > of the argument _is_ known and is checked at compile
 > > time).
 > > 
 > > I call that dynamic.
 > 
 > I'm not clear from your description (maybe you could show an example or two?)
 > but I gather you could either be talking about union typing, where at compile
 > time a variable is declared as, e.g. (list OR int), or parametric polymorphism,
 > where a variable's type is parameterized by another type, e.g. list<type>.  In
 > either of these cases, I would typically still call it static typing because the
 > possible types are still resolved at compile time.  (The first will be handled
 > much like a C union, and the second will typically be stored as a list of
 > objects, with some run-time checking of type inserted, as in Java 1.5.)

Neither.  Here's an example from the tutorial which
implements a simple insertion sort algorithm.  "#" is
the prompt of the interactive interpreter (so if you
happen to have O'Caml installed, you can just start
the interpreter and type or paste this example in,
just like in Python).  "let rec" defines recursive
functions.  "match <arg> with <pat> -> <result> | ..."
performs pattern matching on types.  "<a> :: <b>" means
element <a> prepended to the front of list <b>.
"[]" is an empty list.  ";;" terminates a statement.
The rest should be obvious.

#let rec sort lst =
     match lst with
         []           -> []
       | head :: tail -> insert head (sort tail)
 and insert elt lst =
     match lst with
         []           -> [elt]
       | head :: tail -> if elt <= head then
                             elt :: lst
                         else
                             head :: insert elt tail
 ;;

This defines a function "sort" and a function "insert"
with the following type signatures:

val sort : 'a list -> 'a list = <fun>
val insert : 'a -> 'a list -> 'a list = <fun>

It can be used like this:

#let l = ["foo"; "bar"; "baz"; "etc"];;
#sort l;;
- : string list = ["bar"; "baz"; "etc"; "foo"]

The type inferred for sort, 'a list -> 'a list, means that
sort can actually apply to lists of any type, and returns a
list of the same type.  The type 'a is a type variable, and
stands for any given type.  The reason why sort can apply
to lists of any type is that the comparisons (=, <=, etc.)
are polymorphic in Caml: they operate between any two values
of the same type.  This makes sort itself polymorphic over
all list types.

The appropriate type checking is done at compile time.  That
is, if your program calls sort with two lists of different
type (e.g. a list of strings and a list of ints), then the
compiler will detect that and report an error.  Type errors
never stay undetected, the compiler will never produce code
that will exhibit a type error at runtime.  This is a key
advantage of Caml (and other languages with pattern matching
and type inference).

Best regards
   Oliver

-- 
Oliver Fromme, Konrad-Celtis-Str. 72, 81369 Munich, Germany

``All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream.''
(E. A. Poe)


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 19:17:01 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:17:01 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <41631bed$0$55248$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gl6dqy.17aec2n1uecu0nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.4340.1096988457.5135.python-list@python.org>	<55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>	<mailman.4356.1096994017.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gl7hm9.axk9rb2z5qtaN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.4386.1097013003.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41631bed$0$55248$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <41632B6D.10104@cloudthunder.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

>On 2004-10-05, Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Indeed Alex, I shall have to hone my researching skills (whip
>>out the blade sharpener).  I haven't done much since my days
>>in the University as a student.  The nice thing about being a
>>professor, which I made heavy usage of, is that you can
>>exploit your graduate students and make them do all the
>>research and tedious tasks!  Reflecting back though, perhaps
>>that was unkind.  It is an integral part of their learning 
>>experience though.
>>    
>>
>
>Perhaps.  Just remember that we are not grad-student slave
>labor to which you can assign tasks.
>
>  
>
Understood.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 20 18:10:08 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:10:08 +0200
Subject: Logging messages with dictionary args in Python 2.4b1 leads to
	exception
References: <cl34oq$7fk$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<8cf2994e.0410200246.64e9e910@posting.google.com>
	<cl5tak$1dn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<4176836E.4000507@holdenweb.com>
	<cl64rp$4kt$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <1glzcek.6eh93i3wp035N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Stefan Behnel <behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
   ...
> Even this works:
> log("message %s", {'a':1, 'b':2})
> 
> So the only (!) change is the additional support for dictionary arguments.
> No drawbacks.

Actually, I think that:

log('msg %s', (1, 2, 3))

works w/o your patch but your patch breaks it, so it's not strictly true
that there are no drawbacks, I believe.  Possibly the drawback's minor,
though.


Alex


From carroll at tjc.com  Sun Oct 17 21:18:06 2004
From: carroll at tjc.com (Terry Carroll)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:18:06 -0700
Subject: why doesn't this filter the warning?
Message-ID: <vv56n0laacck5ab91bvvcti2jvjkb3b7g7@4ax.com>

If I do the following code, whether in the interactive session or in a
file, I get a FutureWarning:

>>> x = 0xffffffff
<stdin>:1: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return
positive values in Python 2.4 and up

Okay; that's expected.  No problem, I'll just turn off the
FutureWarning.  Here's the results from within an interactive session:

>>> import warnings
>>> warnings.filterwarnings('ignore', "hex/oct constants", FutureWarning)
>>> x = 0xffffffff

Note that no warning is produced.  Great; that's what I wanted.

But now, the same thing, but executing a file, rather than
interactively:

[begin-quote]
C:\test\misc>cat testfw.py
import warnings
warnings.filterwarnings('ignore', "hex/oct constants", FutureWarning)
x = 0xffffffff

C:\test\misc>python testfw.py
testfw.py:3: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return
positive values in Python 2.4 and up
  x = 0xffffffff
[end-quote]

Why won't the filterwarnings call suppress this?



From DesertLinux at netscape.net  Fri Oct  8 16:53:40 2004
From: DesertLinux at netscape.net (Byron)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:53:40 GMT
Subject: Python Newbie. Python on PPC, please assist.
In-Reply-To: <2qudnV1KKuD7RfvcRVnyhg@pipex.net>
References: <2qudnV1KKuD7RfvcRVnyhg@pipex.net>
Message-ID: <o7D9d.9642$M05.9555@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Hi PN,

*From what I understand*, each type of pocket PC has a different CPU 
chip built into it -- which means that you will have to find a compiled 
version of python that is "compatible" with the CPU that your device has.

If the software isn't compiled for your device's CPU, it simply won't 
work...

Hope this helps!

Byron
---

pythonnewbie wrote:
> Hi All. I'm just starting to learn programming using Python. I am new to
> programming so please be patient with me!
> I found this for Pocket PC:
> http://www.murkworks.com/Research/Python/PocketPCPython/PPCPythonR2Notes
> I tried installing it and for some reason it would not work. Having
> installed it,  clicking on the program gives the error "PocketPCPython.exe
> or one of it's components cannot be found", even though I am directly
> clicking on the exe, and even after much fiddling making sure all the files
> are there.
> I'm not a newbie as far as pda's go, so I'm a little confused as to why it's
> not working.
> What I really want to know though, is what it actually, does before I go
> about spending time getting it working. I mean, is it a development
> environment, like IDLE, or does it just install the Python libraries so you
> can run Python programs on a PPC, or what? As I said, I am a complete
> programming newbie so sorry if I'm talking rubbish.
> I'd be really greatful if someone could tell me what the Python PPC program
> is/does. Also if there are any other (better) programs for Python on PPC.
> And if anyone has any ideas why the install didn't work on the PPC, I'd be
> greatful for advice on that too.
> Many thanks in advance.
> 
> 


From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Sun Oct  3 08:26:57 2004
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 14:26:57 +0200
Subject: ANN: eric v. 3.5.0 available
Message-ID: <4o7532-q8g.ln1@stargate.solsys.priv>

Hi,

I am proud to announce the immediate availability of eric v. 3.5.0. It is
available via

http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html

or

http://eric-ide.sourceforge.net

This release includes some new features and a bunch of usability
enhancements. For details see the attached release notes.

Regards
Detlev
-- 
Detlev Offenbach
detlev at die-offenbachs.de
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From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Mon Oct 18 10:32:15 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:32:15 +0100
Subject: relational email repository
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434B20@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[Steve Holden]
| A while ago someone posted a reference to a relational 
| architecture for 
| storing rfc2822-compliant emails, but I can't for the life of 
| me find it 
| through Google. Anyone? Thanks a lot.

Think it's Catchmail you're after:

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mysite/catchmail.htm

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
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service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Oct 12 00:17:48 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:17:48 +0200
Subject: Save state of interpreter
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.11.08.39.15.396767@thomas-guettler.de>
References: <pan.2004.10.11.08.39.15.396767@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <416b5aea$0$162$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Thomas Guettler wrote:
> I want to save the state of the interpreter
> for debugging. The variables of the methods
> in the stacktrace should be saved.
> 
> cgitb seems like a good point to start, but
> maybe someone has already done something like this?

If it is acceptable that the interpreter terminates,
I would send SIGQUIT, and analyse the resulting core
dump in a debugger.

Regards,
Martin


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Oct 30 17:31:24 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:31:24 -0500
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de> <clvpa0$7ag$2@star.cs.vu.nl>
	<clvrk0$djr$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<Z8Mgd.8520$Es2.172559@twister2.libero.it>
	<pan.2004.10.30.18.40.19.137063@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <10o821fqaiahu31@news.supernews.com>


"Jeremy Bowers" <jerf at jerf.org> wrote in message 
news:pan.2004.10.30.18.40.19.137063 at jerf.org...
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:53:13 +0000, gabriele renzi wrote:
>> well, they failed to implement all of the tests but those implemented
>> actually run faster than  CPython.
>
> It is trivial to make something that implements a subset of the language
> run faster than something that implements the entire language.
>
> This is why while I am optimistic and hopeful, I don't consider current
> running speeds to be evidence that they will win. Call me when they've got
> the whole language.
>
> Also, there is the counterarguement that they probably have debug code and
> stuff still in there, or things easily optimized. (I hope so, otherwise
> they are Yet Another Project to fall victim to premature optimization;
> let me say this clearly, it would be a *bad sign* if their code is
> currently optimized.) But that just reinforces my point about the current
> code not being useful as a reference for how fast the final Parrot will
> run.

I suspect that the performance issue is being clouded by the
reference counting mechanism in CPython. Modern garbage collectors
are reputedly significantly faster. If Python 3.0 removes reference
counting it might speed up substantially. Note that IronPython is
reported to run at the same (or better) speed as CPython, even
though the CLR is not optimized for running scripting languages.

John Roth 



From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Tue Oct  5 03:02:20 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:02:20 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <416246FC.4070401@cenix-bioscience.com>

Richard Blackwood wrote:

> Hi, I'm new to Python and I'd like to know if Python has the following 
> support: *please answer to each individually, thanks* 

...

>
> 31. Concepts of Protocols (whereby one may organize related methods 
> into groups and check whether a particular object implements the 
> methods within this protocol), or Interfaces similar to those in Java 
> whereby classes or objects which implement the interface (sign the 
> contract) must implement the methods and attributes as specified in 
> the interface, and/or programming by contract such as in Eiffel (see: 
> http://www.devhood.com/tutorials/tutorial_details.aspx?tutorial_id=595) 

PyProtocols (http://peak.telecommunity.com/PyProtocols.html) might do 
what you want.

Aaron




From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 13:03:10 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 10:03:10 -0700
Subject: MAPI Server...
References: <ab19b1e4.0410061718.6a7df4b5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9418be08.0410070903.486837c2@posting.google.com>

junkmail at chipworks.net (Mike Monaghan) wrote in message news:<ab19b1e4.0410061718.6a7df4b5 at posting.google.com>...

Mike!

In essence you are asking if somebody implemented MAPI service
provider in Python. Actually the voice-mail designers made not a bad
decision: OE is installed on every windows machine, including the
server, where voice-mail is running. It is a default e-mail client (if
one does not install Outlook or something else). So all SMAPI calls
are executed by OE. The only problem IMHO is this "press-damn-button"
application. In fact this is not required. You can uncheck the option
(warn me when other application ....) on the security tab in the
Options dialog box of OE. Otherwise all looks OK. Do not forget to
restart the voice-mail. I bet, they open the mapi session once at the
start of the program and then use it :)


From David.Vaughan at Gifford.UK.com  Fri Oct  1 03:39:50 2004
From: David.Vaughan at Gifford.UK.com (David Vaughan)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:39:50 +0100
Subject: List rotation
Message-ID: <C59AEFCA2D33284B8EE3C0A8C8C9004A108495@kiwi>


Here's a quick way to transpose, keeping all the sharps and flats
correct.
You could dress it up a bit by writing a Tune subclass of list with a
transpose method, particularly if there are other things you want to
do with tunes :)

David



# Define a long list of notes, each a fifth higher than its predecessor:
fifths = []
for suffix in ['bb','b','','#','##']:
    for note in ['F','C','G','D','A','E','B']:
	fifths.append(note+suffix)
fifths.append('F###')  # So len(fifths)==36 and we can wrap round
correctly
print 'fifths ==',fifths
print

# Translate between note names and indices in this list of fifths:
def m_ord(note_name):
    return fifths.index(note_name)
def m_str(note_index):
    """Note: index can be any value, and wraps round appropriately."""
    return fifths[note_index % len(fifths)]

# Do the main work:
def offset(sourcekey, destkey):
    """Returns offset in fifths which represents key-change."""
    return m_ord(destkey) - m_ord(sourcekey)
def transpose(tune, offset):
    """Transposes a tune (=list of notes) by given key-change offset."""
    return [m_str(m_ord(note)+offset) for note in tune]

# And show it off:
tune = ['C','E','B','F']
print 'Tune is',tune
for key in ['G', 'F', 'Dbb']:
    t = offset('C', key)
    print 'Transposition of tune from C to',key,'is',transpose(tune,t)



David Vaughan
Structural Analyst
GIFFORD AND PARTNERS LTD
Carlton House, Ringwood Road, Woodlands,
Southampton, SO40 7HT,  UNITED KINGDOM
 
Tel: +44 (0)23 8081 7500      Fax: +44 (0)23 8081 7600
Email: David.Vaughan at gifford.uk.com
Web:  http://www.gifford.uk.com
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This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for
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advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use,
dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is
strictly prohibited.


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 18:47:30 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 15:47:30 -0700
Subject: ClientCookie problem - Difference between 'post' on the local
	network and the internet
References: <4178F159.7060100@mxm.dk>
	<7o0jn01jn22kdmlpni3mh2oortrc66hpuv@4ax.com>
	<417A3EC1.6090603@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410231447.7494142e@posting.google.com>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote in message news:<417A3EC1.6090603 at mxm.dk>...
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> 
> > Are you using Version 1.0.0a ?
> > There is a bug (well actually a bug in urllib2 - but it amoutns to the
> > same thing) that is fixed in CVS. Either use CVS or go back to 0.4
> > whatever which is the latest stable version.
> 
> 
> I cannot seem to find a cvs repository for ClientCookie or wwwsearch 
> anywhere. Or do you mean that I should get urllib2 from cvs?

You're right.. I can't find it either. At least it's not on
sourceforge anyway..
John J Lee is the author of the module and he usually hangs around on
the wwwsearch mailing list (and sometimes here). When I reported the
bug to him a while ago he said he has fixed it in CVS. I just went
back to using 0.9 which I'm not sure is now easily available....

If you want I can mail that one to you.
Mail me on fuzzyman AT voidspace DOT org DOT uk and I'll see if I can
dig it out.

Regards,

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From simon.brunning at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 10:47:46 2004
From: simon.brunning at gmail.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:47:46 +0100
Subject: Problem with string parsing
In-Reply-To: <948b993a.0410050638.3a0340ec@posting.google.com>
References: <948b993a.0410050638.3a0340ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c604100507473888ca88@mail.gmail.com>

On 5 Oct 2004 07:38:09 -0700, Mike Howard <mhoward at mahoward.com> wrote:
> If I do this:
> string.lstrip('1_mature_dt=10-May-2002','1_mature_dt=')
> I get:
> '0-May-2002'
> Which I did not expect

string.strip() and friends strips from the first argument *any* of the
characters in the second argument:

>>> string.strip('***###spam***###eggs***###','*#')
'spam***###eggs'

Make sense now?

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B,
simon.brunning at gmail.com,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/


From wendum.denis at pasdepourriels.edf.fr  Tue Oct 12 08:27:07 2004
From: wendum.denis at pasdepourriels.edf.fr (denis wendum)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:27:07 +0200
Subject: Test: please ignore
Message-ID: <416BCD9B.ACC1722@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>

Checking if connection works. Seems OK.



From exarkun at divmod.com  Thu Oct  7 09:54:04 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:54:04 GMT
Subject: Calling a constructor by reference
In-Reply-To: <m37jq2fxdp.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20041007135404.29723.508370514.divmod.quotient.10613@ohm>

On 07 Oct 2004 06:53:06 -0700, Edwin Young <edwin at bathysphere.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> I know there must be a way to do this but the correct syntax eludes me.
> 
> I want to write a method which I can pass different types to and have
> it construct them.
> 
> I tried this:
> 
> >>>
> class X:
>     def __init__(self):
>         pass
> 
> def make_thing(type,*args):
>     return type(args)
> 
> x = X()
> y = make_thing(X)
> 
> print x, y 
> >>>
> 
> But get 'TypeError: __init__() takes exactly 1 argument (2
> given)'. Presumably X is treated as an unbound instance method?
> 
> Also, the types I want to create inherit from an old-style class in a
> package, so I don't think I can make X a new-style class (if that's
> relevant).
> 
> How should I go about this?

  You're closer than you think, although some of your terminology is a bit confused.  Try this definition of make_thing instead:

    def make_thing(type, *args):
        return type(*args)

  Of course, an even simpler definition is possible:

    make_thing = apply

  And this version even supports passing arguments by keyword ;)

  A note about terms: in your example above, X is a class object.  X.__init__ is an unbound method, the initialized (not the constructor).  Calling a class object is a shortcut for calling the constructor and then calling the initializer.

  Jp



From danu_milis at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 02:59:20 2004
From: danu_milis at yahoo.com (danu kusmana)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:59:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PyOpenGL install solved with lots of notes
Message-ID: <20041029065920.32716.qmail@web60610.mail.yahoo.com>

Finalllyyyyyyy...

1. I dont understand why the developer of GLUT (until
the latest version: 3.7) still reffering to the
libMesaGL* where in the Mesa website already stated
that they dont use that library anymore. Lots of
changes in Makefile in glut source have to be done.

2. I think the setup.py from PyOpenGL only looking for
the libray for GLUT and X11 in the /usr/lib directory.
I don't know is it only happened in Mandrake 10.0?

even though it is dont have any relation to the
PyOpenGL but when I try to install PIL and SDL_ttf it
always breaks when it try to link to freetype.h. I
erase all the line between #ifndef FT_FREETYPE_H to
#endif that stated the ft2build.h hasn't been build.
The result it works! I don't understand why in the
first place they have to put those line anyway... DUH



danu


		
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From ed18hg at brllsouth.net  Sun Oct 24 09:02:53 2004
From: ed18hg at brllsouth.net (ed18hg)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:02:53 -0400
Subject: Is this group for newbies?
Message-ID: <DINed.193222$as2.133033@bignews3.bellsouth.net>

I'm looking for a Python newbie group. I don't want to get flamed by asking 
in the wrong place.
Thanks 




From anna at aleax.it  Mon Oct  4 16:24:14 2004
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Martelli Ravenscroft)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:24:14 GMT
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4257.1096908736.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <3b59a80.0410021910.17b31c29@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4230.1096842283.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gl3wcp.15oxvkd1jdp8dbN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>	<mailman.4231.1096844832.5135.python-list@python.org>	<4edc17eb.0410040223.4aa4f24b@posting.google.com>	<mailman.4239.1096896657.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gl55lu.yovfmt1kquac3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4257.1096908736.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Oji8d.38470$75.1918457@news3.tin.it>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:36:32 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>Well, _this_ experienced writer keeps repeating this fact over and over
>>and over again in _his_ explanations (e.g., Nutshell p. 32: "Unlike
>>other languages, Python has no declarations"), but of course that
>>doesn't help all that much if one's explanations just aren't read.
> 
> 
> I can only thank you for having pointed it out to me here at this
> newsgroup. I'm not fortunate enough to have a copy your books here
> with me :-) But even so -- this topic _should_ be better explained,
> and clarified, in the standard Python documentation.

There's much about the "standard Python documentation" that sucks rocks. 
OTOH - it doesn't suck as badly as most techie documentation, and 
besides, if it didn't occasionally need clarification, we wouldn't need 
to come posting here asking for help and meeting such wonderful people - 
so I can't really complain. Particularly considering that asking him to 
help me out on a (to me) obscure Python point (list.append returns None) 
was how I reconnected with this Italian guy I knew from the internet, 
which ended up with us getting married this summer... So, I REALLY can't 
complain too loudly... ;-)


> (as a side note,
> it's not only declarations and metaclasses; I've read Raymond
> Hettinger docs regarding descriptors, and I was left wondering why
> weren't it included into the standard documentation, in some form or
> other).

A lot of these things are pretty, erm, high-level issues - beginners 
don't need them, so it makes some sort of sense that they not be part of 
the standard "everybody needs it" documentation. After all, decorators 
are pretty new - afaik.

Anna


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 08:56:00 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:56:00 +0200
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted Data
	Chunk Efficiently
References: <ba1e306f.0410050212.3b592313@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gl6ueb.1grmxg1nzzmubN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jane Austine <janeaustine50 at hotmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> Maybe I could keep the cursor position among sessions if I were using
> a standalone server. However, it is in CGI environment.

You can arrange things so that a daemon is always running in the
background, keeping whatever state you wish, and you CGI script
basically just send over the form data to the daemon and get the
response back from it.  Webware comes with this kind of arrangement as
one of the ways it can work, for example.


> What can I do instead? What data structure allows you to access
> nth..n+10th data from the sorted list in a constant time?

Assuming you can find a way to amortize DB connection time (by a
daemon-based arrangement), I suggest a MySQL database and the use of a
SELECT query with ORDER BY and LIMIT clauses.  I don't normally suggest
MySQL over other DB engines, but for your specific problem it appears to
me that it may be most appropriate.  PostgreSQL also has LIMIT and
OFFSET clauses that work similarly to MySQL's LIMIT clause (iff you also
have an ORDER BY), but standard SQL doesn't support such a "sliding
window on the results" concept, unfortunately.

This suggestion is partly based on your followup post where you mention
your dataset size as being typically of several 10s of 1000s of records.


Alex


From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 10:11:42 2004
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 07:11:42 -0700
Subject: Recursive function to develop permutations
References: <RiZcd.840$5i5.671@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<1glxc40.1kfx0apgrp3u3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<nnFdd.2986$5i5.1800@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<1glzzdm.ye96kj1q3oesdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0410212109.778cdb00@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0410220611.7f05862c@posting.google.com>

hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu) wrote:
> No if/else statements. No explicit recursion. And it works for
> zero-length lists as well. Now, if someone could do the general P(n,
> k) and C(n, k) versions, I'd appreciate it. :)

Well, here they are: (for functional people, basically I used
tail-call and parameter list to emulate looping variables... standard
trick, nothing new. The formulas might be further simplified?)

permutations = lambda Xs, k: [p[0] for p in reduce(lambda r, i:
[[x+[y[i]], y[:i]+y[i+1:]] for (x, y) in r for i in range(len(y))],
range(k), [[[], Xs]])]

combinations = lambda Xs, k: [p[0] for p in reduce(lambda r, i:
[[x+[y[i]], y[i+1:]] for (x, y) in r for i in range(len(y))],
range(k), [[[], Xs]])]

slot_machine_combinations = lambda Xs, k: [p[0] for p in reduce(lambda
r, i: [[x+[y[i]], y] for (x, y) in r for i in range(len(y))],
range(k), [[[], Xs]])]

sample = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']
print permutations(sample, 2)
print combinations(sample, 2)
print slot_machine_combinations(sample, 2)

The three formulas only differ in the treatment of the y[] lists in
looping. That part can be parametrized into separate lambdas if so
desired.

permutations: y --> y[:i] + y[i+1:]
combinations: y --> y[i+1:]
slot_machine_combinations: y --> y

Hung Jung


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 26 09:58:14 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:58:14 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <KeidnQ3n5ZBAz-PcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<slrncnrn2n.afp.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<mailman.5484.1098768901.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<KeidnQ3n5ZBAz-PcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1098799095.22370.321.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 09:36 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Cliff Wells wrote:

> And what about Methuselah?  He's not going to be receiving his
> social security cheques if he can't enter his age as higher than,
> say, 2**7 (as our friend kartik would arbitrarily say...).  We
> actually need 2**10 for his age, but now that's a little too
> high so maybe we'd better just kill the old bugger off at 2**9
> (hey, he's lived so long that shaving 208 years off his age
> won't bother him, right?).

Ah, the infamous Methuselah quandary.  I think actually killing him with
a program would involve specialized hardware (and possibly a gun
permit), which is why this problem has yet to be solved satisfactorily.
Without corporate interest this problem will probably remain unresolved.

Of course the Social Security Administration is one of those places
where constraints define reality, so my guess is he's already received a
letter informing him he's dead and so is no longer eligible anyway.  Yet
another example of practicality-beats-purity.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Oct  5 15:39:41 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:39:41 +0200
Subject: [ANN] PySQLite 1.0
Message-ID: <20041005193941.GA19268@mylene.ghaering.de>

=============================
Announcement for PySQLite 1.0
=============================

I'm pleased to announce that PySQLite has reached version 1.0 now.

What the heck is it?
  SQLite is a powerful embedded relational database engine. PySQLite makes it
available to Python developers via the Database API 2.0. If you want a
relational database, but not worry about installing a MySQL server, or
depending on a Microsoft JET engine, let alone their licensing and/or
cross-platform issues, (Py)SQLite is the solution for you.

This release features the following minor changes:

- "Fixed" bug #1039380. Now you can use subclasses of Unicode in your .execute()
  calls. It is consistent with the current API. The new API in PySQLite 2.0 will
  lose all this politically correct isinstance stuff, though.

- Added patch #989224: Build support for Darwin.

- Applied patch #992094: Don't start transaction on VACUUM or DETACH.

- Added note to docs about -DTHREADSAFE=1 being a good idea when compiling SQLite.


Future development
==================

PySQLite was built on SQLite 2.x, which is in maintenance-only mode now. The
same will go for PySQLite 1.0 from now on.

My development effort will concentrate on bringing SQLite3 to Python
developers, and creating a leightweight, DB-API conformant wrapper around it
that will have a better designed API than the old PySQLite. This API will be
more leightweight, strive for best performance, and be completely incompatible
with the old PySQLite.

At the same time, I will try to incrementally change the existing codebase, so
that it will compile against SQLite 3.x, and maybe try to convert it to the
vm-based API of SQLite instead of the callback-based one. This is for those
that have applications built around the old API.

Hamburg, 2004-10-05             Gerhard H?ring


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 20 18:22:32 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:22:32 +0200
Subject: String changing on the fly
References: <aef9ef3d.0410200848.71e6a757@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1glzcvj.5uv1lg12ypgy2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Eli Daniel <elie at flashmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm new to Python. Can you please tell me if the following is
> possible.
> 
> My users are using other scripting launguage to write scripts. They
> are used to write somthing like (keeping it simple)
> T = 100
> do_action ('It cost $T dollars')
> 
> where the above syntax ('It cost $T dollars') is interperted as ('It
> cost 100 dollars').
> I saw on way of doing it by using 'it cost '+ str(T) + ' dollars'.
> But trying to keep it backward compatible, is there a way for the
> function do_action, which resides in a class in a seperate file, to
> take the original string (with the '$T') and replace it with the value
> of T?

As others have said, you need to pass do_action the dictionary of the
local variables of the function (or module's body) from which you're
calling it: do_action('it cost $T dollars', vars()).  If you don't pass
this argument explicitly it IS possible for do_action to recover it by
black magic, but that would be very bad practice.

Apart from this, your best bet might be to upgrade to 2.4 (the current
beta appears quite good), which offers exactly this functionality in the
string.Template class.  Otherwise, see how string.py does it (in the 2.4
standard library) and copy the solution.  But reusing the solution
directly is much preferable, and for that you need 2.4.


Alex


From noone at here.com  Mon Oct  4 14:03:49 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:03:49 +0100
Subject: append - Dumb and Dummer
References: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
	<cjrvna$rf4$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cjs36a$c14$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi Alex,

How do I print from this?

def weird_appender(sequence):
    first_time_choices = {'item1': 'abc', 'item2': 'def', }
    choices = { None: first_time_choices,
                'item1': {'item1': 'blu', 'item2': 'ghi', },
                'item2': {'item1': 'jkm', 'item2': 'nop', }
              }

    d = choices.get(previous, first_time_choices)
    choose = d.get(item, [''])
    yield item + random.choice(choose)
    previous = item

print ???


Thanks,

Malcolm




From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 29 14:32:18 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:32:18 -0700
Subject: List problem
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7B26@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7B26@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <1099074738.7272.28.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 15:19 -0300, Batista, Facundo wrote:
> [Thomas M.]
> 
> #- test_list = [1, 2, 3] 
> #-  
> #- for i in test_list: 
> #-    print i 
> #-  
> #-    if 1 in test_list: 
> #-       test_list.remove(1)
> 
> As a rule of thumb, never modify a list that you're iterating.
> 
> If you want to modify the list, iterate a copy:
> 
> for i in test_list[:]: 

Another approach (that doesn't require creating a copy of the list) is
to iterate backwards over it:

>>> test_list = [1, 2, 3]
>>> for i in range(len(test_list) - 1, -1, -1):
...     if test_list[i] == 1:
...         test_list.pop(i)
...
1
>>> test_list
[2, 3]
>>>

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk  Fri Oct  8 09:18:08 2004
From: siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk (Sion Arrowsmith)
Date: 08 Oct 2004 14:18:08 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
	<1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck1a41$iug$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	<mailman.4440.1097091393.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u9o*KtAwq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

Dan Christensen  <jdc at uwo.ca> wrote:
>If python only allowed ! and ? at the end of identifiers, then !uname
>would be fine, and ?x could be used in place of x?

It seems to me that allowing them in the same places in an
identifier as a digit would lead to the least proliferation
of different cases (and be easier on the lexer).

>But the problem mentioned in other post with code like x!=0 is more
>serious. 

Knew there was a good reason for using <> instead of != (-6

-- 
\S -- siona at chiark.greenend.org.uk -- http://www.chaos.org.uk/~sion/
  ___  |  "Frankly I have no feelings towards penguins one way or the other"
  \X/  |    -- Arthur C. Clarke
   her nu become? se bera eadward ofdun hl?ddre heafdes b?ce bump bump bump


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct 25 11:15:34 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:15:34 +0200
Subject: replace 'apply' with extended call
References: <10np5sprbh8kp72@corp.supernews.com>
	<b61fd.1486$kM.997@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<10nq30jij1nm41a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <clj59j$gu2$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Alan G Isaac wrote:

> 
> "Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:b61fd.1486$kM.997 at newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> How about a solution which replaces the 'map' with a
>> list comprehension?
>> def apply_each(fns, args = []):
>>    return [fn(*args) for fn in fns]
>> Conversion to lambda form is trivial for this case but I
>> figured if you're going to name it, why use a lambda?
> 
> 
> This raises another (newbie) question that I had.
> Take a trivial example:
> 
> from operator import truth
> bool1 = lambda lst: map(truth, lst)
> def bool2(lst): return map(truth,lst)
> def bool3(lst): return [truth(_) for _ in lst]
> 
> To my eyes, the most natural is bool2.
> I would never have considered bool1 if
> I had not come across it in the Merz book,
> but it is both shortest and clear.
> I include bool3 just for comparison: I think
> the way in which it is harder to read illustrates
> the usefulness of 'map'.
> 
> So, are there any obvious considerations when
> making a choice among these.  In particular,
> why might someone prefer the style in bool1?

I agree with you that using lambda is bad style for defining a named
function. I also prefer map() over list comprehensions if the expression is
a simple call to a predefined function, but a list comprehension is much
more flexible as it allows for expressions instead of function calls and
covers the functionality of filter() and map() in one pass. Personally, I
would just use the inline version of bool2, i. e. write

>>> map(bool, ["", [], 0, 0.0])
[False, False, False, False]

directly without bothering to define a function first. I didn't know about
truth(), but it seems to be equivalent to bool() - so why bother with the
import?

Peter




From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 28 09:39:10 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 06:39:10 -0700
Subject: High volume websites using Python web server software?
References: <mailman.5585.1098903028.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9418be08.0410280539.39b310f3@posting.google.com>

Michael Sparks <zathras at thwackety.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.5585.1098903028.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Ian Bicking wrote:
> 
> > Michael Sparks wrote:
> > >>Hi,
> > >>Things like Twisted, medusa, etc.... that claim to be able
> > >>to support hundreds of concurrent connections because of the
> > >>async I/O framework they're based on....

Hi!

For the last several weeks I was occupied with the service for
harvesting/delivering bulk e-mail. Initially the program was written
in Java with one thread per connection. We could support up to 100
threads/connections without performance degradation (which was not
enough). Connections are relatively "long living". The logic of this
piece of software is very complex, so modification and addition of
extra handling, like anti-spam filters, did become real hassle (nobody
wanted to touch this program). In essence the program was "dead."

Facing mentioned above, I decided to rewrite it in Python, using
asyncore module. The only modification required (for performance) was
the replacing of readable()/writable() with flags. The net result was:
500 simultaneous connections are handled with almost no CPU load 5-7%.
(socket I/O only, no text processing).  Still the program has multiple
threads for backend DB processing and file I/O. For comparison: the
same stream of data can be handled by IOCP program in C (Windows) with
0.5-1% CPU consumption. Probaly more optimization could be done for
better performance, but I was sutisfied.

I beleive this numbers prove (at least for me) that
Python-medisa-twisted is a good solution for high load servers (and a
cheap one, and maintainable :)

I'm in no way a Python guru. Just a "beleiver" :)

Good luck


From xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 00:56:45 2004
From: xiaohua_sun at yahoo.com (SunX)
Date: 7 Oct 2004 21:56:45 -0700
Subject: run python from a tcl/tk GUI
Message-ID: <337e6cd5.0410072056.865c394@posting.google.com>

Gurus;
Just wrote a front-end GUI with tcl/tk to take user input.  Want to
push a button on the GUI to start running a python script.  I know one
can use exec in tcl to run .exe files, but not .py or .pyc, correct?
Help on how to do this is highly appreciated.
Many thanks
Howard


From dd55 at cornell.edu  Sun Oct 10 14:09:06 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:09:06 -0400
Subject: module name not recognized
References: <ck6s3u$bp4$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.4662.1097393832.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckbq7s$7vc$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu> <ckbskp$9d2$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <ckbtso$9ab$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

Robert Kern wrote:

> Darren Dale wrote:
> 
>> # trying /home/darren/temp/simCTR/fresnel.so
>> # trying /home/darren/temp/simCTR/fresnelmodule.so
>> # trying /home/darren/temp/simCTR/fresnel.py
>> # trying /home/darren/temp/simCTR/fresnel.pyc
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "temp.py", line 7, in ?
>>     from simCTR.fresnel import *
>> ImportError: No module named fresnel
> 
> Don't execute python from /home/darren/temp .
> 

I see. I had two problems. I didnt realize there was an old simCTR directory
in ~/temp. Python was searching this directory, and when it didnt find the
module it raised an error. I read that python would try the current
directory first, and if that failed it would try other places along the
python search path. The caveat is that if python finds a package but not
the module, it will not continue the search. Thank you everyone, especially
Robert and Alan.


From abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au  Wed Oct 13 07:14:30 2004
From: abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au (Ajay)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:14:30 +1000
Subject: threads and sockets
Message-ID: <1097666070.416d0e166bf88@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>

hi!

how can i stop a server socket running in a thread other than the main
thread? if the server socket was a local variable of the function started
by the child thread, would calling join work?

thanks






----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From fakeaddress at nowhere.org  Fri Oct  8 01:47:12 2004
From: fakeaddress at nowhere.org (Bryan Olson)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 05:47:12 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
	<ck1l5h$rjm$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glatga.8upk9brifr2qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck3sqp$jl$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<1glawed.1e83ntp1ck15pvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<ck43j1$3hv$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<1glb1jy.1at6as41fab2t9N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ARp9d.8251$nj.2867@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

 > Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
 >>If you look at the code for _threading_local, you'll see that it depends
 >>on __getattribute__() to acquire a lock and patch in the current
 >>thread's local state.  IIRC from the various threads about securing
 >>Python, there are ways to break __getattribute__() [...]
 >
 > I believe you're thinking of the minimal portable version: I believe
 > that for such systems as Windows and Linux (together probably 99% of
 > Python users, and i speak as a Mac fan...!-) there are specific
 > implementations that use faster and probably unbreakable approaches.

Are we looking at the same question?  A language that makes safe
threading logically possible is easy; C does that. 'Unbreakable'
is a high standard, but one that a high-level language should
meet.  No matter how badly the Python programmer blows it,
Python itself should not crash, nor otherwise punt to arbitrary
behavior.

Now look at implementing Python without a global interpreter
lock (GIL).  To work safely, before we rely on any condition,
we must check that the condition is true; for example we do not
access an array element until we've checked that the subscript is
within the current array size.  Python does a reasonable job of
safety checking.  In the presence of OS-level multi-tasking,
Python could still fail catastrophically.  We might be suspended
after the check; then another thread might change the size of
the array; then the former thread might be restored before
accessing the element.

So what's the solution?  A global-interpreter-lock works; that's
what Python has now; but we lose much of the power of multi-
processing systems.   We could give every object its own lock,
but the locking overhead would defeat the purpose (and inter-
object conditions can be trickier than they might look).

Maybe every object, at any particular time, belongs to just one
thread.  That thread can do what it wants with the object, but
any other has to coordinate before accessing the object.  I
don't know the current results on that idea.

Functional programming languages point out a possible facility:
threads can safely share non-updatable values.  In Python,
ensuring that immutable objects never contain references to
mutable objects is a bigger change than we might reasonably
expect to impose.


Guido did not impose the GIL lightly.  This is a hard problem.


-- 
--Bryan


From austin at maxtronic.com.tw  Tue Oct 26 04:19:50 2004
From: austin at maxtronic.com.tw (Austin)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:19:50 +0800
Subject: RadioBox in wxPython
Message-ID: <417e0899@news.seeder.net>

Every time i use wxRadioBox, it will show the box.
I just want the options show on the panel. What could i do?




From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Oct  4 20:05:18 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:05:18 GMT
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
In-Reply-To: <cjslqp$h03$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
References: <4e4a11f8.0409232355.6ba0468d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.3834.1096015522.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
	<Jdc7d.280819$4o.95007@fed1read01>
	<ijbrl0tfkraor6fe316aettvc0sqas3q8a@4ax.com>
	<du7y8ipv21m.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<cjslqp$h03$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <2zl8d.2842$M05.1121@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Fernando Perez wrote:
> Sorry to pitch in late, and forgive me if this has already been discussed and
> thrown out for some other reason, I didn't follow the whole thread.  Why not
> use function attributes for the cache?
> 
> In [3]: def foo(x):
>    ...:     if x in foo.cache:
>    ...:         print 'x=',x,'in cache!'
>    ...:     else:
>    ...:         print 'new calculation for x:',x
>    ...:         foo.cache[x] = 1
>    ...:
> 
> In [4]: foo.cache={}

It was discussed.  Here's Alex's comments

] def f(x):
]     if x in f.cache: ...
] f.cache = []
]
] which among other things suffers from f.cache having to be
] used in spots that come lexically before it's defined; or
] a decorator equivalent:

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From olafmeding at tds.net  Thu Oct 14 15:56:05 2004
From: olafmeding at tds.net (Olaf Meding)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 12:56:05 -0700
Subject: Python COM and Threads
Message-ID: <21b384ca.0410141156.2cc930c9@posting.google.com>

Looks like Python can not make COM calls from a thread?  Here is the
error message I get: 'CoInitialize has not been called.'

Here is the code:

  import threading
  import win32com.client

  class Thread1(threading.Thread):
    def run(self): 
        print 'thread 1'
        userInterface = win32com.client.Dispatch('Excel.Application')	

  def main():
    t1 = Thread1()
    t1.start()

  if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()


Thanks much for your help on this.

Olaf


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Thu Oct 14 21:00:53 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:00:53 -0700
Subject: Compiled Byte code
In-Reply-To: <m37jptz6s6.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <1097675350.5192.206374341@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.4852.1097676193.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<m37jptz6s6.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1097802053.20309.3.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 14:57 +0000, Michael Hudson wrote: 
> Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> writes:
> 
> > On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 19:19 +0530, Soumitri wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > Is there a dependency of version or platform for running a snippet of
> > > python compiled code? I have a .pyc (possibly created on a *nix box)
> > > that was created off ver 1.5.2 and returns a "Bad Magic Number in .pyc
> > > file" error when i run a box with XP and Python 2.3.
> > 
> > IIRC, I believe bytecode (pyc files), while mostly portable across
> > platforms (I've used the same pyc files on Linux and Windows)
> 
> Uh, *entirely* portable, I hope, or you've found a bug :-).

I qualified my statement as I was unsure about platforms other than the
ones I mentioned.  It occurred to me that 64-bit platforms *might* not
be compatible.  Since I wasn't sure I was reluctant to make a blanket
assertion.  But I can try harder in the future ;-)

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom  Fri Oct  1 07:35:52 2004
From: unseulmcmcmcmc at msupprimerlepoint.claveauPOINTcom (Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non triviale en fuite perpétuelle.)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:35:52 +0200
Subject: Test html
References: <415bf448$0$21152$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<415cee92$0$948$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
	<415CF3F7.2070402@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <415d4126$0$3069$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

Bonjour !

>>> en Francais "verbing a noun" ?

"Cr?er un verbe d'apr?s un nom".  L'expression anglaise n'a pas d'?quivalent
en fran?ais.


Mais, en fran?ais, on n'a pas le droit de "verbing a noun"



@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau
m?l : http://cerbermail.com/?6J1TthIa8B
sites : http://mclaveau.com   http://bergoiata.org   http://ponx.org





From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 29 23:28:01 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:28:01 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0410291739.35cb9de6@posting.google.com>
References: <1gme4mk.1rlz70v1cswu9zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<3064b51d.0410291739.35cb9de6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041029185344.0C04.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


beliavsky at aol.com wrote:

[snip much of the prior argument]

> My general argument is that Python advocates are attacking a straw man
> when they talk as if the main alternative to a high-level modern
> language like Python is good old C. If they compare Python with C++
> with OOP and STL for general-purpose programming, or with Fortran 95
> for scientific computing, some of the "high-level" advantage of Python
> disappears.

In my opinion, where Python wins is that you get general-purpose
programming /and/ scientific computing with Python.  General programming
is offered out of the box, with various libraries and add-ons to give
you full crypto support, alternate GUI libraries, etc. Scientific
computing is also available via libraries, and has gotten so popular
that there's even a Scientific Python conference.

Python's win as a high level language is clear: we have many of the
tools of the historic 'leaders' via C/C++ extensions, and more are being
ported every day.  It also has a continuously growing community of
developers and users of Python applications, including major industry
leaders like IBM, Nokia, Intel, etc.  They choose Python because it does
the job, as do I, my employer, my academic advisor, and many others here.

 - Josiah



From ville at spammers.com  Tue Oct  5 04:33:29 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 11:33:29 +0300
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
References: <RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
	<Jdc7d.280819$4o.95007@fed1read01>
	<ijbrl0tfkraor6fe316aettvc0sqas3q8a@4ax.com>
	<du7y8ipv21m.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<mti3m0lncs2jcaeh3dbnqindal6mh7o1br@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <du7sm8t4l9i.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Andrea" == Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> writes:

    Andrea> On 02 Oct 2004 13:37:25 +0300, Ville Vainio <ville at spammers.com>
    Andrea> wrote:

    >> Actually, you appeared to pass the reasonable limits for this
    >> particular newsgroup.

    Andrea> Ok, but when that happened ? Can you be more specific ?

A good rule of thumb is, if one has sometime negative to say, and the
way of saying it focuses on someone else's person rather than the
issue as such, one is crossing the line. I have zero interest in
pursuing this issue any further, really, just wanted to point out that
you were taking an approach that might have been much more common in
some other newsgroup and therefore seemed acceptable. 

Since you are obviously (judging from your other messages) not a
generic troll or otherwise "undesirable" material, it's easier for you
and the atmosphere of the whole newsgroup if you tone down the
approach a little bit.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 09:51:39 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:51:39 -0400
Subject: bz2 & cpu usage
Message-ID: <cl365b$hh8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I'd like to keep at least 50% of the cpu free while doing bz2 file 
compression. Currently, bz2 compression takes between 80 & 100 percent 
of the cpu and the Windows GUI becomes almost useless. How can I lower 
the strain on the cpu and still do compression? I'm willing for the 
compression process to take longer.

Thanks,

Brad

def compress_file(filename):
     path = r"C:\repository_backup"
     print path
     for root, dirs, files in os.walk(path):
         for f in files:
             if f == filename:
                 print "Compressing", f
                 x = file(os.path.join(root, f), 'rb')
                 os.chdir(path)
                 y = bz2.BZ2File(f + ".bz2", 'w')
                 while True:
                     data = x.read(1024000)
                     time.sleep(0.1)
                     if not data:
                         break
                     y.write(data)
                     time.sleep(0.1)
                 y.close()
                 x.close()
             else:
                 return


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 17 11:13:27 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:13:27 +0200
Subject: acting on items passed to a method via a dictiomary
References: <mailman.5015.1097859379.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glsuoa.ln95k510qx31yN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Donnal Walter <donnal at donnal.net> wrote:

> The following method is defined in one of my classes:
> 
>      def setup(self, items={}):
>          """perform setup based on a dictionary of items"""
>          if 'something' in items:
>              value = items['something']
>              # now do something with value
>          if 'another' in items:
>              value = items['another']
>              # do something else with value
>          if 'spam' in items:
>              value = items['spam']
>              # do yet another thing with value
>          if 'eggs' in items:
>              value = items['eggs']
>              # and so on

The various 'do something', 'do something else', etc, pieces of code,
need to be factored out into methods or functions reachable on the basis
of the related names, 'something', 'another', etc.  Depending on exacly
what the various 'somethings' are that you want to do, you might be
happier with placing them in other methods of this class with names
constructed in a systematic way from the related names (this makes it
feasible for subclasses to override some part of them) or local
functions in a dictionary (if you're keen to stop subclasses from
overriding only some part of this processing).

Normally one does want to allow subclasses more flexibility rather than
less (extended variants of the "Template Method" design pattern are very
abundant in the Python standard library, exactly because of this), so,
you might want to do something like...:

class Base(object):

    crucial_names = 'something another spam eggs and so on'.split()

    def method_name(self, crucial_name): return 'handle_'+crucial_name

    def handle_something(self, value): print 'something is', value
    def handle_eggs(self, value): print 'over easy for', value
    # other handle_... deliberately omitted, default to no-op

    def setup(self, items={}):
        for crucial_name in self.crucial_names:
            if crucial_name in items:
                metname = self.method_name(crucial_name)         
                method = getattr(self, metname, None)
                if method: method(items[crucial_name])

This lets a subclass alter the list of "crucial names" (via the highly
Pythonic concept of "data override"), as well as the processing to be
performed for each "crucial name", and even the way a method name is
constructed from the "crucial name".  Of course there are many design
decisions here that you may want to tweak or reverse, depending on your
exact need -- e.g., it may be that in your case a missing method should
not be a plain no-op but a serious error warranting an exception.

Do notice a little detail: it's typically important that the method_name
method 'augment' the crucial_name argument in such a way that the
resulting string cannot possibly be a Python keyword.  For example, if
you had 'def method_name(self, crucial_name): return crucial_name' the
handling of crucial name 'and' might be bothersome, since it's a Python
keyword; if you used, e.g., "return 'a'+crucial_name", a subclass would
have similar problems if it wanted to have 'nd' as a crucial name
(unless it overrode method_name and reimplemented all the existing
handling methods, probably not worth the bother)... it would be feasible
to work around such problems, but it's better to design method_name so
as to avoid the problems arising in the first place!-)


Alex


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 16:10:16 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:10:16 -0300
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
In-Reply-To: <1gl974b.16udnxv178bw8qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8dkd.1mk43di1xi6v0dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4418.1097061910.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8lg2.axf8gd9hwlbmN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4426.1097075121.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8zqv.1dppy3q143owj6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4432.1097082864.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl974b.16udnxv178bw8qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d37090410061310cd5e14e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:28:40 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > > 1. You need to build an f = new.function(klass.my_code, globals()) in
> > >    your classmethod that now erroneously does the exec above quoted (you
> > >    could in fact do this in the metaclass, save the new function rather
> > >    than the code object -- get the right globals via inspect).
> >
> > That's the part that I was missing. It looks less 'hackish' than I had
> > expect. I was really afraid that I would need to manage bytecode-level
> > hacks myself. I am not as concerned about getting the right globals,
> > though -- it's good enough if I'm able to supply whatever globals I
> > need upon calling, I think (unless I'm _really_ missing something).
> 
> I don't think you're missing anything -- just DO consider that if you
> pass your own globals they'll be used to solve every name that's not
> local to the class body, e.g. a '__metaclass__ = metaname' assignment in
> classbody (of course, you can finesse this by calling the metaclass
> explicitly anyway;-).

I was missing the new.function() call -- I hadn't checked how could I
build a function out of a code block up to that point, and I was
afraid that I would need to dive deeply into Python internals. It's
not that bad.
 
> > > 2. you need to obtain the needed dict, that's just  d = f()  in your
> > >    method
> >
> > There is still a question, but I think I already know the anwswer :-)
> > If the class *has* a base class, it has to be passed as a parameter. I
> > assume that i can simply call it like this: d=f(bases); or instead,
> > that I can fill the argdefs in the new.function call. I'll try it
> > later.
> 
> Nope, f doesn't get the bases AT ALL; the bases (as a tuple) go in only
> when you call the metaclass.

Well. I was mistaken (and that's not be the first time). It goes like
this; I first checked the dis.dis() code:

 27          64 LOAD_CONST               4 ('MyClass')
             67 LOAD_NAME                7 (object)
             70 BUILD_TUPLE              1
             73 LOAD_CONST               5 (<code object MyClass at
0120A0A0, file "c:\work\help-on-c-l-py\re_exec_class.py", line 27>)
             76 MAKE_FUNCTION            0
             79 CALL_FUNCTION            0
             82 BUILD_CLASS         
             83 STORE_NAME               8 (MyClass)

... with that build_tuple there... besides that I knew I *can* access
the bases from within my class statement body:

class MyClass(MyBaseClass):
    bar = MyBaseClass.foo
 
... so I had suspected that the bases *were* passed to f(). But wait!
Actually, Python is building the stack for the BUILD_CLASS opcode.
Right?

> > > 3. you can now call your metaclass with the appropriate bases and name:
> > >        klas = self.__class__  # or cls if this is a classmethod;-)
> > >        return type(klas)(klas.__name__, klas.__bases__, d)
> > >
> > > voila, you're there.  This is all coded to minimize the need to have
> > > this method located in a specific class -- as I said I think you
> > > probably want to have this stuff in the metaclass (if you have a
> > > metaclass at all), but, whatever.
> >
> > Tehre are two reasons to do it in a metaclass: first, I tested it and
> > it works (of sorts), while for some reason it wont work for a
> > non-metaclasses enabled class. Also, because in this scenario there
> > are other things that I already need to check, and a metaclass does it
> > nicely.
> 
> OK, then, that's where you pass the bases in, not before.
> 
> > For now, I think I'll just be using the class-inside-a-def idiom. But
> 
> If it can give you all you need, that may be best.
> 
> > I'm still working around some design issues, and if the templating
> > mechanism gets in the final production code (it's only one of a few
> > competing designs), I'll surely try it again.
> 
> OK, keep us informed of developments, then!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alex
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Mon Oct 25 10:39:42 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 08:39:42 -0600
Subject: almost Flyton?
In-Reply-To: <9B2FCE5C-25B2-11D9-92C7-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>
References: <9B2FCE5C-25B2-11D9-92C7-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>
Message-ID: <417D102E.30406@pythonapocrypha.com>

Ksenia Marasanova wrote:
> Laszlo went Open Source:  http://openlaszlo.com/
> 
>  From the description:
> """
> LZX is an XML and JavaScript description language similar in spirit to 
> XUL and XAML. LZX enables a declarative, text-based development process 
> that supports rapid prototyping and software development best practices."""
> 
> The presentation server works on "J2EE application server or Java 
> servlet"...
> But it may become optional in a few months!
> 
>  From http://www.davidtemkin.com/:
> """
> With Laszlo's new business model built on top of an open-source 
> platform, we are now in a position to make the presentation server an 
> optional component of a Laszlo deployment. Sometime over the next few 
> months, we'll release a build that allows you to compile LZX files on a 
> developer's machine, and post the resulting SWF to a Web server. The SWF 
> in the browser will communicate with XML and media sources directly, 
> with no intervening presentation (proxy) server. For many Laszlo 
> applications, this will mean no need to install Java on the server, no 
> need to deal with new servlets or test presentation server scalability."""
> 
> Now we only need a Python library to generate LZX... and Flython is 
> born? ;-)

I've been keeping up on the Laszlo forums, and it looks like Laszlo has a lot of 
what I'd want in a Flash-based GUI framework, except for one thing: currently, 
interaction between Laszlo and the "host" container (e.g. the browser) is very 
limited.

For it to be usable as a GUI, there needs to be at least some sort of two-way 
communication possible. Laszlo currently lets you call "loadURL", which you 
could use as a mechanism for calling a browser Javascript function, but that's 
hacky at best. Also, there doesn't appear to be a good way for the host to 
generate events or call functions inside the Laszlo application.

Supposedly support for all this is in the works, so if it gets implemented then 
maybe it could be a basis for Flyton. :)

-Dave


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Thu Oct  7 18:01:07 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 00:01:07 +0200
Subject: Quixote Question
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410071331.b4fa310@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.4482.1097139450.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<6f402501.0410071331.b4fa310@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4165bca4$0$65124$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Michael Foord wrote:
> Tim Golden <tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.4482.1097139450.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>[Fuzzyman]
>>| Quixote is a web-framework. Does it act as a server or can it act as a
>>| frameowrk using the CGI protocol ?
>>| 
>>| I would like to develop a website with user login, download manager,
>>| statistics etc and I don't want to reinvent the wheel. *However* I am
>>| using someone elses server, so I would like to do it using python CGI.
>>| 
>>| Is this  :
>>| a) Possible with Quixote
>>| b) A sensible use of Quixote
>>
>>Quixote is *not* a server; the developers recommend Apache, 
>>but basically it'll run with pretty much any kind of CGI,
>>FastCGI, SCGI etc. etc. and comes bundled with a couple of
>>sample servers based on Medusa and Twisted respectively.

[...]

<a-wee-bit-offtopic-plug>
If you want a ready-to-use server (without having to set up
your own web server).... you may find that Snakelets
(http://snakelets.sourceforge.net) may very well suit your
needs. Creating a dynamic site, and login-protected pages,
is a snap.
</a-wee-bit-offtopic-plug>

> Right - thanks for the helpful answer.
> I still seem my website as a bunch of HTML pages, but needing
> integrating with a few dynamic features.... rather than seeing the
> whole site as a single web-application.

Hmm... if you want only a little part of the website to be
dynamic, you can either:
- just serve it as static content trough snakelets too
- use snakelets behind Apache configured to proxy only some
   requests to snakelets. And serve the static stuff with Apache.

Snakelets is not mature / production quality code (although
it has been running on a low/medium-traffic site of mine for
nearly a month now without interruption). If you want something
more mainstream, you may ignore this message ;-)


--Irmen


From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Tue Oct 12 15:29:11 2004
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:29:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PythonCom equivalent on Linux!
References: <ba129ce7.0410111812.52f88cac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckhba7$sne$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

John <johng2001 at rediffmail.com> pisze:

> Is there an equivalent of COM on Linux that I can get through Python.
> My need is to have some sort of language independent component
> framework. I can think of CORBA but I have to have a server running. I
> prefer not to. I just need Python components for local consumption in
> other languages. I remember Gnome libs having some thing like this.
> Any thoughts?

Don't you think that Windows with all its stuff is more "serverish" that
running separate CORBA server process? Anyways, who runs RPC server on
client machine...

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/ | http://www.zgodowie.org/


From agriff at tin.it  Fri Oct  8 06:48:11 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:48:11 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aJt8d.3299$M05.285@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6qcq.kcu4qi1qojaksN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<_sB8d.3545$M05.1351@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl7k7p.1a37gv1o1klclN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<JGW8d.7631$M05.6903@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl97ps.endfhf1dfa6l0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<qGf9d.5222$UP1.1202@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0grcm0d8tk56qgska3qlldg9sit7jppiqk@4ax.com>

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:12:38 GMT, Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com>
wrote:

>Hmm..  The times I needed it I used __getattr__ in old-style
>classes, sometimes as a proxy.  It seems that properties
>should be the appropriate mechanism for new-style classes,
>but I've yet to use them in real code.

I'm curious about the "needed" part. For example I don't remember
ever finding a "real" algorithm bug in C/C++ because of a
const-related error... when the compiler complained about a
const-problem the problem revealed itself in just an incorrectly
declaration of the const specification.
I mean that I don't remember that the const-correctness
specification ever made me discovering someone that was trying
to modify something that shouldn't have been modified.

Does experience shows that this kind of bug is instead frequent
in python ?

Another thing I never found that useful was the "private"
and "protected" eclaration (except for marking taboo things
like copy constructors or assigment for things that can't be
copied or assigned); is that absence something really felt
as a problem in python ? The "private" name thing in python
is of course somehing quite different because solves a problem
that is not present in C++ (in C++ it's ok for a derived
class uses the same name for a member as the base class).

Andrea


From bokr at oz.net  Mon Oct 11 07:50:43 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:50:43 GMT
Subject: define 'in' operator on lists
References: <ckdl7u$m08$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	<Xns957F72D5C6476duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<ckdolc$lpr$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <416a7238.4294542225@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:51:57 +0200, "..:: sjf ::.." <somebody at unknown.org> wrote:

>pewnego dnia niejaki(a) Duncan Booth wstukal(a) byl(a) co nastepuje...:
>> ..:: sjf ::.. wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>I want to define 'in' operator (or any "magic" function) on list which 
>>>returns True value if all of list (i.e. _list) elements appears in other 
>>>list (i.e. L) in the same order and False otherwise. 
>> 
>> 
>> How about:
>> 
>> 
>>>>>def containedinsequence(short, long):
>> 
>> 	ilong = iter(long)
>> 	for s in short:
>> 	    for l in ilong:
>> 		if s==l:
>> 		    break
>> 	    else:
>> 		return False # ran out of long list
>> 	return True
>> 
>> 
>>>>>L = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>>>>>containedinsequence([3, 4, 6], L)
>>
>
>OK, this is nearly what I am expecting, but I want if
>containedsequence([3, 4, 5], L) returns True, but
>containedsequence([3, 4, 6], L) returns False
>because that sequence not exist in longlist exactly
>
Not very tested (just what you see ;-)

 >>> def issubseq(sub,seq):
 ...     if not sub: return True
 ...     sub0 = sub[0]
 ...     start = 0
 ...     lensub = len(sub)
 ...     while True:
 ...         try: start = seq.index(sub0, start)
 ...         except ValueError: return False
 ...         if seq[start:start+lensub] == sub: return True
 ...         start +=1
 ...     return False
 ...
 >>> L = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
 >>> issubseq([3,4,5],L)
 True
 >>> issubseq([3,4,6],L)
 False
 >>> issubseq([3],L)
 True
 >>> issubseq([],L)
 True
 >>> issubseq([6],L)
 True
 >>> issubseq([1,2],L)
 True

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Mon Oct 25 07:18:00 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:18:00 -0400
Subject: non-blocking XML-RPC
In-Reply-To: <6Wied.33767$QJ3.8644@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
References: <6Wied.33767$QJ3.8644@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <417CE0E8.3090603@bellsouth.net>

Roose wrote:

>Is there a way to make the xmlrpclib calls using ServerProxy not block?
>Basically I am kicking off programs on remote machines, and they take hours
>to run.  I want to use the features of marshaling arguments over, but most
>of the functions will not return any value at all.
>
>Is there some other mechanism I should be using?
>
>thanks,
>Roose
>
>
>  
>

What problem are you trying to solve? 

Do you want any and all XMLRPC requests (or even all requests of a 
certain method) to return back quickly because you don't (want to / have 
to) wait around for them and they don't return anything meaningful 
anyway?  Then you can follow Skip's recommendation of stuffing the 
request into a queue and letting another thread pull things out of the 
queue and spin off a thread to process it.  Or you could use a 
threadpool and have one thread pull requests out of the queue that Skip 
recommended and pass the request to the threadpool.  There's a pretty 
useful threadpool recipe in the online Python Cookbook at 
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/203871.  I 
couldn't find it in the dead tree Python Cookbook.  Actually, if you use 
that particular threadpool, you could just have the request handler pass 
the request directly into the threadpool.

Or, do you want to be able to make more than one simultaneous request to 
the XMLRPCServer and not have requests have to wait for each other 
(assuming you're using the SimpleXMLRPCServer with no threaded mix-in)?  
In this case, if it's still unimportant to return anything meaningful to 
the caller, which it appears that it is not, you could still get away 
with using a queue or threadpool.  If you're interested in returning 
something meaningful after computation is completed, then you could look 
into creating a threaded XMLRPCServer using a threading mix-in.  If you 
are interested in this approach, post back and I'll scrounge some sample 
code.

Jeremy Jones


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Oct 13 12:05:11 2004
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 16:05:11 GMT
Subject: locks
References: <mailman.4825.1097665614.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckj61m$tng$04$2@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4835.1097670275.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<qa-dnWDkDKi-uPDcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.4845.1097675044.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns958199317CD18duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.4854.1097677164.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9581ADCB8DF20duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Cliff Wells wrote:

> This suddenly gave me a smack on the head that list.append is
> undoubtedly written in C and might, in fact, retain the GIL for the
> duration of the function in which case the operation might, in fact, be
> atomic (yes, I know that isn't necessarily what the above traceback was
> saying, but it served as a clue-stick).
> 

Roughly correct. list.append is written in C and therefore you might assume 
it is atomic. However, it increases the size of a list which means it may 
allocate memory which could cause the garbage collector to kick in which in 
turn might free up cycles which could release references to objects with 
__del__ methods which could execute other byte code at which point all bets 
are off.



From no at spam.net  Wed Oct 20 12:29:27 2004
From: no at spam.net (Fadly Tabrani)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:29:27 +0800
Subject: Client authentication https server m2crypto?
Message-ID: <cl61id$ojg$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>

Anybody has any ideas how to implement client authentication/peer 
certificate verification using the M2crypto package https server example?

Fadly Tabrani


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Oct 21 14:57:19 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:57:19 +0200
Subject: Help needed: Printing unicode characters in user defined format
In-Reply-To: <4178055e$0$20457$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
References: <4178055e$0$20457$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
Message-ID: <4178068d$0$585$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Pekka Niiranen wrote:
> I need to loop thru characters in Unicode string
> and store each character in format \U+hhhh, where
> hhhh is the value of unicode character in hexadecimal?

"".join(['\\U+%.4x' % ord(c) for c in unistr])

HTH,
Martin


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Mon Oct  4 09:59:33 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:59:33 +0200
Subject: Python and C#
References: <10m2la510rpeq86@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <vy06duxaf28u$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Al Christians (2004-10-03 15:49 +0200)
> If I get this to work well, next I want to make it easy for
> users to install and run the apps.  I haven't tried to
> package any python apps in about a year.  Which packaging
> package is better now for this -- py2exe, McMillan's, or
> something else?  I want the end-users with no python on
> their Windows machine to run a simple and non-descript
> installer and then be up and running with my app, no
> problems.

To my knowledge neither py2exe nor the McMillan installer offer
installers. Distutils offers a Windows installer but it looks in the
registry for the Python path. Try InnoSetup or th NSIS installer.

py2exe is easier to setup but McMillan offers more functionality.

Thorsten


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Oct 20 05:16:13 2004
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 02:16:13 -0700
Subject: formatting time as milliseconds in logging module
References: <cl2n3g$2lt$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <2e37dc1.0410200116.4891d3b1@posting.google.com>

Stefan Behnel <behnel_ml at dvs1.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in message news:<cl2n3g$2lt$1 at lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>...
> Hi!
> 
> The logging module nicely prepends each line with a formatted date.
> 
> However, I'm not interested in the actual date but only in the number of 
> milliseconds that passed since the start of the program. What is the best 
> way of doing that?
> 
> Thanks,
> Stefan

Use the relativeCreated attribute of the LogRecord in your message format. See

http://www.red-dove.com/logging/public/logging.Formatter-class.html

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 16:37:42 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:37:42 +0200
Subject: Why is function call - recursive especially - in python so slow?
References: <mailman.5135.1098130197.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glvi86.1k3vknumwje9nN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<iviskic at uci.edu> wrote:
   ...
> as oppose to other programming languages, and can't seem to figure out why
> is the call of functions so slow?
> Is a context being created and stored on stog each time, or does it uses

A frame object is created for each call.

> references? How EXACTLY does it work? I've read the documentation, but it
   ...
> Please let me know if you now how it's done, or (preferably) point me
> where to look for the answer.

The source code is the only ultimate answer to such implementation
questions.  Download Python's sources and see how frame objects are
created, populated, and stacked on call, and popped and destroyed on
return (or on exit by exception propagation) from a function.  ceval.c
has the huge switch on bytecodes that shows you what happens at each
bytecode -- to see what bytecode comes from a code fragment, use the dis
module (dis.dis of a small codeobject or function is instructive).  Once
you see the calls which a certain bytecode causes ceval.c to make, you
can track the details over other source files.

Or if you prefer to see the implementations done in Java or C# or
O'Caml, all of Jython, IronPython and Vyper are open-source, too, of
course.  You can see an incomplete implementation in Python itself in
pypy, another one in (I'm not sure, I guess perl?) in PyParrot.  Of
course, each implementation can do what it wishes, as long as it
respects Python language semantics.


Alex


From anna at aleax.it  Fri Oct  1 12:58:42 2004
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Martelli Ravenscroft)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:58:42 GMT
Subject: __author__
In-Reply-To: <mJOdncAlLKryF8DcRVn-pg@powergate.ca>
References: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>
	<UUe7d.39869$35.1839915@news4.tin.it>
	<mJOdncAlLKryF8DcRVn-pg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <61g7d.41156$35.1870133@news4.tin.it>

Peter L Hansen wrote:
> Anna Martelli Ravenscroft wrote:
> 
>> You may be seeing those in modules that were packaged up with 
>> distutils. The setup.py expects certain metadata about the 
>> distribution,including those you've listed above. A list of the 
>> expected values is available on page 562 of _Python in a Nutshell_, or 
>> in _Distributing Python Modules_ section 3, accessible at 
>> thttp://docs.python.org/dist/dist.html
> 
> 
> Anna, I'd like a clarification please.  Are you suggesting that
> those variables as written *with underscores* are what distutils
> expects to see, or merely that the names of those variables
> is similar to those required by distutils?  I don't see any
> mention of __whatever__ on the page you cite above.

Yep - you're right.
__whatever__ isn't there. Copyright isn't on that page either (as Alex 
helpfully pointed out to me after I posted this). (Good thing I said 
"may". That's what I get for posting while fighting a cold...)

I hope that someone like someone whose modules use __something__ can 
explain for both of us...

Anna


From mefjr75 at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 16 18:49:05 2004
From: mefjr75 at hotmail.com (M.E.Farmer)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 15:49:05 -0700
Subject: How can I get text of the body (payload) of an email?
References: <1097890188.684790.103490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <18282ecb.0410161449.6874fc02@posting.google.com>

"andrew blah" <andrew.stuart at xse.com.au> wrote in message news:<1097890188.684790.103490 at f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
> I need to get the text of the body (the payload) of an email.
> As I understand it, an email has headers at the top, then a blank line,
> then the body of the message.
> I want to get the text of the body - every character from the new line
> after the headers until the end of the message.

[headers]
[blank line]
[body]

You explained how to do it ;)

> I want to get the text of the body - every character from the new line
> after the headers until the end of the message.

If you just find the first blank line then the next line is the start
of the email body ;)

import poplib
Mail = poplib.POP3('mail.yourserver.net')
Mail.user('username')
Mail.pass_("userpass")
# just get the first message
MyMessage=Mail.retr(1)
FullText=""
PastHeaders=0
for MsgLine in MyMessage[1]:
    if PastHeaders==0:
        if (len(MsgLine)==0):
            PastHeaders = 1
    else:
        FullText +=MsgLine+'\n'
Mail.quit()
print FullText

This is from Python 2.1 Bible(Dave Brueck,Stephen Tanner);)
That book is an awesome reference still today!

> My objective is to do an SHA hash on the body text so the get_payload
> method isn't what I am after.
> Can anyone suggest a convenient way to get access to the raw message
> payload?
> Thanks in advance for your help.
HTH,
    M.E.Farmer :)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 05:26:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:26:28 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<1098414642.736428.8940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<1gm1x7t.w8k2hqrv300tN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4178ca7c$0$44104$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <1gm21ye.rego7yswhcmsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

GerritM <gmuller at worldonline.nl> wrote:

> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
> news:1gm1x7t.w8k2hqrv300tN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> <...skip...>
> > Lastly, I'm still looking for systematic ways to test system integration
> > that are as effective as unit tests are for each single component or
> > subsystem; but that's an area where type and const checking are of just
> > about negligible help.
> >
> System integration has a completely different nature than unit testing.
> During system integration the "unforeseens" and the "unknowns" pop-up. And
> of course the not-communicated, implicit human assumptions are uncovered.

Exactly -- which is why I'm still looking (doesn't mean I think I'll
find;-).

> All of these problems are not addressed at all by static typing. However,

Essentially not.

> design clarity and compactness does help tremendously. I would expect for
> these reasons that Python is a big plus during system integration of large

Not as much as one might hope, in my experience.  Protocol Adaptation
_would_ help (see PEP 246), but it would need to be widely deployed.

> systems. Of course design attention is required to cope with the
> "non-functional" imapct of Python, such as CPU and memory consumption. on
> top of that (run-time) instrumentation is very helpful. Here again the
> dynamic nature of Python is a big plus.

But the extreme difficulty in keeping track of what amount of memory
goes where in what cases is a big minus.  I recall similar problems with
Java, in my limited experience with it, but for Java I see now there are
commercial tools specifically to hunt down memory problems.  In C++
there were actual _leaks_ which were a terrible problem for us, but
again pricey commercial technology came to the rescue.

With Python, I've found, so far, that tracking where _time_ goes is
quite feasible, with systematic profiling &c (of course profiling is
always a bit invasive, and so on, but no more so in Python than
otherwise), so that in the end CPU consumption is no big deal (it's easy
to find out the tiny hot spot and turn it into an extension iff needed).
But memory is a _big_ problem, in my experience so far, with servers
meant to run a long time and having very large code bases.  I'm sure
there IS a commercial niche for a _good_ general purpose Python tool to
keep track of memory consumption, equivalent to those available for C,
C++ and Java...


Alex


From bokr at oz.net  Wed Oct 13 04:01:54 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:01:54 GMT
Subject: How to catch exceptions elegantly in this situation?
References: <e431ae34.0410071913.15954ed5@posting.google.com>
	<pan.2004.10.08.02.50.53.714563@jerf.org>
	<e431ae34.0410122224.25379264@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416cdaf5.133823187@news.oz.net>

On 12 Oct 2004 23:24:54 -0700, syed_saqib_ali at yahoo.com (Saqib Ali) wrote:

>Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.08.02.50.53.714563 at jerf.org>...
>> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:13:06 -0700, Saqib Ali wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Can you give me more detail? What is the real problem?
>> 
>
>
>Sure.
>The real issue is that I am doing some screen-scraping from on-line
>white pages (residential telephone directory).
>
>I have defined a bunch of regular expressions and myFunc() populates a
>dictionary corresponding to each result from the white pages.
>
>So essentially myDict corresponds to a single record found. See below
>
>myDict["fullName"] = fullNameRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
>myDict["telNum"] = telNumRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
>myDict["streetAddr"] = streetAddrRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
>myDict["city"] = cityRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
>myDict["state"] = stateRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
>myDict["zip"] = zipRegExp.match(htmlText)[0]
>
>
>Sometimes one or more of these regexps fails to match. In which Case
>an exception will be raised. I want to catch the exception, print out
>a message..... but then keep on going to the next assignment
>statement.
>
>
>How can I do that without wrapping each assignment in its own
>try/except block??
>
What exception are you getting? TypeError on unsubscriptable object?

How about (untested) something like:

for key in 'fullName telNum streetAddr city state zip'.split():
    m = getattr(locals()[key+'RegExp'], 'match')(htmlText)
    if m is None: print 'Error: % not found' % key
    else: myDict[key] = m.group()

Obviously you could do something cleaner than silly locals() and getattr stuff by using a
prepared dict, e.g. rxDict == {fullName:fullnameRegExp.match, ...}, something like (untested)

for key, matcher in rxDict.items():
    m = matcher(htmlText)
    if m is None: print 'Error: % not found' % key
    else: myDict[key] = m.group()

Or, if you just put '?' as value where nothing is found, you can get the dict in one line (untested ;-):

myDict = dict([(k,m is None and '?' or m.group()) for k,m in [(k2,mat(htmlText) for k2,mat in rxDict.items()]])

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Thu Oct  7 09:05:49 2004
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:05:49 +0100 
Subject: MAPI Server...
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434AEF@iron.ima.umn.edu>

[junkmail at chipworks.net]
| A voice mail system uses MAPI to pass a message to Outlook Express. 
...
| I can't change the MAPI call from the voicemail system.
...
| The voicemail system treats Outlook as a MAPI server.  
| Is there any support in Python to emulate this role?  

I was intrigued by the concept of a "MAPI server", since one
thinks of MAPI as being a sort-of hardwired protocol, rather 
than something involving a server. A couple of Google hits
later, I came across the Eudora FAQ at

http://www.eudora.com/developers/mapi.html

which explains at

http://www.eudora.com/developers/mapi.html#HowDoesEudoraSupportMapi

that 

"When an application calls the Microsoft-provided MAPI libraries, 
the MAPI libraries direct the messaging requests to Microsoft 
Mail/Exchange. That is, the Microsoft MAPI libraries are hardwired 
to Microsoft Mail/Exchange."

It then goes on to explain that Eudora swaps libraries in and out
to be able to provide a "MAPI Server".

Having said all that, I seem to remember that Eudora is scriptable
from Python (or, at least, via COM). See, for example:

http://schram.net/articles/python/eudora.html

So it might be possible to set Eudora up as the MAPI Server
and then to script it via Python.

HTH
TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________


From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Thu Oct  7 14:19:01 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:19:01 -0400
Subject: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <DaKdnbgpTNU0gvjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<DaKdnbgpTNU0gvjcRVn-jQ@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <41658895.7020906@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Peter L Hansen said unto the world upon 2004-10-07 06:51:
> Brian van den Broek wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking for a stand alone Python wiki engine that does not require 
>> a web server such as Apache or MS IIS. I have found such beasts in 
>> other languages (e.g. <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EddiesWiki> in C++, and 
>> a couple in Ruby), but none written in Python. A pointer to any that 
>> I've missed would be most appreciated.

<SNIP>

> I suspect the standalone Moin-moin approach would be best, though
> I believe at least one of the other lightweight ones is able to
> run standalone.
> 
> You *have* see http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines, haven't you?
> It identifies those that are in Python and standalone...
> 
> -Peter

Thanks Peter, Carlos, and Guyon,

The story below is partly for future google hits:

At first, I did try moin-moin. I downloaded 1.2.3 as since I've never 
set-up a Moin-moin wiki, the beta in 1.3beta troubled me. I started an 
install and saw in the installation instructions txt file that 1.2.3 
came with said:

 > You currently need an external webserver to run MoinMoin.

Having seem Mon-moin being listed as standalone on 
<http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines>, I tried the wiki's docs at 
<http://moinmaster.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnInstalling>, and got the same 
information on some of the pages it wiki-linked.

Frustrated, I turned back to <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines>, 
following several others described as "standalone". Similar situation: 
for instance PikiPiki's install instruction file says:

 > Make sure you have a web server that will let you run CGIs

Each one I tried said (things I interpreted as meaning), that I needed 
Apache, IIS, or some other form of webserver.

Thinking I must not understand what "standalone" means in this context, 
I posted last night's query.

Convinced by both Peter's and Carlos's mention of Moin-moin in their 
responses, I dug again. It turns out 
<http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnInstalling_2fStandAloneOnWin32> 
does indeed have stand alone (no webserver) instructions. Evidently, I'd 
been looking at <http://moinmaster.wikiwikiweb.de/>, which, on this 
topic at least, is not as up to date as 
<http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de>. (Unfortunately, it is the moinmaster 
version of the install instructions that came bundled with 1.2.3)

Sadly, the <http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb> version of the Win32 install 
docs also says at one point:

 > Not yet revised to take into account the stand-alone web server

So, the docs don't seem entirely up to date nor consistent. But I'm 
working on working it out. (If I don't get it soon, time to go bug the 
moin-moin people.)

Tanks again for the help, folks, and I hope the account above might help 
someone in the future, too.

Best to all,

Brian vdB



From lbates at syscononline.com  Fri Oct 29 10:54:17 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:54:17 -0500
Subject: deleting elements from a list in a for loop
In-Reply-To: <Risgd.3548$7R7.154746@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
References: <Risgd.3548$7R7.154746@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <8oSdnfA-woEIxB_cRVn-1A@comcast.com>

When I encounter this type of requirement I almost always find
that it is much easier and clearer to use list comprehensions
or slicing to create a new lists (depending on your needs):

el=[ "one", "two", "three", "four" ]

index=0
el=[line for line in el if line == el[index]]

or if you want the non-matching elements

el2=[line for line in el if line != el[index]]

Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.


flupke wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> i'm having trouble with deleting elements from a list in a for loop
> 
> ============== test program ==============
> el = [ "one", "two", "three", "four" ]
> print "**** Start ****"
> print "List = %s " % el
> index = 0
> for line in el:
>     print "    el = %s " % line
>     if ( index == 1 ):
>         print "    deleting %s " % line
>         del el[index]
>     else:
>         index += 1
> print "**** After delete ****"
> print "List = %s " % el
> 
> print "**** After adding two ****"
> el.append("two")
> print "List = %s " % el
> ============== test program ==============
> 
> This is the output that i get
> **** Start ****
> List = ['one', 'two', 'three', 'four']
>     el = one
>     el = two
>     deleting two
>     el = four
>     deleting four
> **** After delete ****
> List = ['one', 'four']
> **** After adding two ****
> List = ['one', 'four', 'two']
> 
> After deleting it doesn't go to element "three". Why is that?
> How can i safely delete from a list?
> The reason is that i'm currently making an application to manage my 
> links. I write a couple of links to the screen in a listbox (wxPython) 
> and thus i delete those links that appear on screen from the list 
> because people will be able to edit them.
> Then when they move to another link section, i write the content of the 
> listbox back to the list. But as i've illustrated in the small example 
> my coding is flawed.
> 
> Thanks,
> Benedict


From noemail at spam.net  Mon Oct 18 04:43:13 2004
From: noemail at spam.net (Roger Irwin)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:43:13 GMT
Subject: Active X DLL tips?
In-Reply-To: <9SBcd.46004$H11.1606592@twister1.libero.it>
References: <9SBcd.46004$H11.1606592@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <BmLcd.154719$35.7623153@news4.tin.it>

Got there in the end. For the benefit of other clueless souls who turn 
up my post in searches, this is what I used:

 >>>
 >>> import win32com.client
 >>> 
OPCDA=win32com.client.gencache.GetModuleForTypelib('{28E68F91-8D75-11D1-8DC3-3C302A000000}',0,1,0)
 >>> AnOPCServer=OPCDA.OPCServer.default_interface
 >>>

This generates what I think is a 'Class Factory' in OPCDA, and this can 
be used to generate an OPCServer object, as well as other OPC objects, 
allthougth of course these are usually generated by calls to higher 
level objects.

It would be nice to have a few tips and examples on this type of usage 
in the Client QuickStart guide. Unfortunately I have little idea of what 
I am doing so I am not the person to write it.

The GetModuleForTypeLib is documented in the win32com helpfile, the 
parameters are:

IID,lcid,major,minor

IID - Get this using the COM browser. Look for OPC Automation 2.0, the 
'filename' entry in the Type Library should point to opcdaauto.dll

lcid - this is a 'locale' ID. One of my mistakes was tring to set this 
to a typical value for my (Italian) PC. Set to 0 and use the standard 
conventions.

major & minor - Get the major and minor versions by looking at the 
property of the DLL. In this case the type library is called OPC 
Automation 2.0 but the DLL is version 1.0 . This may sound odd but the 
2.0 refers to the OPC standard that is implemented, not the version 
number of the DLL which implements it!


Roger wrote:
> 
> I want to use and Active X DLL in Python applications. I have the 
> win32all stuff installed and the "Excel.Application" example in the 
> Client QuickStart section of the manual works OK, so I guess it is 
> installed correctly.
> 
> Problem comes when I want to use the objects in the OPCDA library. In VB 
> I would include the library in the references and could then do 
> something like:
> 
> Dim foo as OPCServer
> dim baa as OPCGroups
> (lots of lower level objects omitted)
> 
>     set foo=New OPCServer
>     foo.Connect <Server details>
>     set baa=foo <Call for getting a new OPCGroups object>
>     (code continues in a similar manner)
> 
> Leading on from the Excel example, I have tried using client.Dispatch 
> with "OPCServer", "OPCAutomation.OPCServer" and a few other 
> combinations, but I cannot get a valid object. Either I am told the 
> string is invalid, or I get no error but the variable which the object 
> was supposed to be assigned to is.....not assigned.
> 
> Maybe (as warned in the docs) the COM browser is not correctly reporting 
> the names I should use. It mentions the VC COM browser, but if you don't 
> have that are there other valid alternatives?
> 
> I have looked at the gencache functions for generating a Python module 
> from the type library, but I am not sure about the parameters, in 
> particular, what should the lcid be? Also, what is the correct way to 
> pass an IID, as a string complete with the hyphens?
> 
> I have looked around for examples but all I have found so far is either 
> accessing applications such as Excel, IE and outlook, or building 
> clients to test servers that have been created with Python.
> 
> I suspect that maybe I sould be doing things a bit differently to access 
> a vanilla Automation DLL.
> 
> Tips anyone?
> 
> 


From rkern at ucsd.edu  Mon Oct 25 20:30:12 2004
From: rkern at ucsd.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:30:12 -0700
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5466.1098748601.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<1098743855.1243.248.camel@emilio>	<1098746958.22370.116.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<mailman.5466.1098748601.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clk5qk$4lt$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Tim Churches wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 09:29, Cliff Wells wrote:

[snip]

>>If this is true, I can't think of any way for a program to run on a
>>GPL'd system (such as Linux) without becoming GPL'd itself (Unless it
>>doesn't do any I/O or malloc any memory <wink>). 
> 
> 
> Yes. It seems to be them is some dissonance between these two positions:
> 
> "It is OK for a closed-source application to allocate memory on a system
> running the GPLed Linux kernel"
> 
> and
> 
> "It is not OK for a GPL-incompatible Python application to import GPLed
> code into the runtime namespace it is using."
> 
> I shudder to think what a judge and jury would make of such a
> distinction. 

I'm sure they would see the explicit exception made in the GPL:

"""
However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not 
include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or 
binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of 
the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component 
itself accompanies the executable.
"""

-- 
Robert Kern
rkern at ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
   -- Richard Harter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Mon Oct 25 16:01:20 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:01:20 -0700
Subject: comparing multiple copies of terrabytes of data?
In-Reply-To: <D-idnbZWXrXV2ODcRVn-pg@giganews.com>
References: <pan.2004.10.25.18.08.29.462743@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
	<D-idnbZWXrXV2ODcRVn-pg@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <20041025125001.0B16.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote:
> 
> Dan Stromberg wrote:
> 
> > Rather than cmp'ing twice, to verify data integrity, I was thinking we
> > could speed up the comparison a bit, by using a python script that does 3
> 
> Use the cmp. So what if you must run it twice ... by the way I
> really doubt that you could speed up the process in python
> ... you'll probably end up with a much slower version

In this case you would be wrong.  Comparing data on a processor is
trivial (and would be done using Python's C internals anyways if a
strict string equality is all that matters), but IO is expensive.
Reading Terabytes of data is going to be the bottleneck, so reducing IO
is /the/ optimization that can and should be done.

The code to do so is simple:

def compare_3(fn1, fn2, fn3):
    f1, f2, f3 = [open(i, 'rb') for i in (fn1, fn2, fn3)]
    b = 2**20 #tune this as necessary
    p = -1
    good = 1
    while f1.tell() < p:
        p = f1.tell()
        if f1.read(b) == f2.read(b) == f3.read(b):
            continue
        print "files differ"
        good = 0
        break
    if good and f1.read(1) == f2.read(1) == f3.read(1) == '':
        print "files are identical"
    f1.close() #I prefer to explicitly close my file handles
    f2.close()
    f3.close()


Note that it /may/ be faster to first convert the data into arrays
(module array) to get 2, 4 or 8 byte block comparisons.

 - Josiah



From me at here.there.nowhere  Thu Oct 14 07:08:12 2004
From: me at here.there.nowhere (=?UTF-8?B?0JTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCT0LXQvtGA0LPQuNC10LLRgdC60Lg=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:08:12 +0200
Subject: Is there something like Zoe in Python
Message-ID: <416e5e1d@news.mt.net.mk>

Zoe is an application written in Java that is also a SMTP/POP/WEB server
that sits between your normal mail user agent (Thunderbird, mutt or
Outlook) and the rest of the world. Every mail you've received or sent is
stored and indexed in Zoe, so that you can perform searches (ala Google) on
your own mail database, via its web interface.

I was wondering if there's something similar but written in Python.



-- 
??????

"The moment you commit and quit holding back, all sorts of unforseen
incidents, meetings and material assistance will rise up to help you.
The simple act of commitment is a powerful magnet for help." -- Napoleon


From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Thu Oct  7 18:43:07 2004
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 00:43:07 +0200
Subject: Database and Interface for Python
References: <6f402501.0410071411.17321f9a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041007224307.2E28.0.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

Michael Foord wrote:

> I need to analyse this information by different criteria. E.g. How
> many users accessed the website between August 5th and August 12th,
> listed by refferer !! etc It would be great to have a database engine
> where I could ask these questions in just a couple of queries, rather
> than having to implement all the sort/analyse functions myself.
 
Just simply transfer those your data to database and then retrievieng
detailed information will be simple.

> I guess this is as bad a time as anyto start to learn to use a
> database !! So I look on google and the situation is a little unclear.
> I can use the database API that will give me a 'consistent
> interface'... but I still need a database engine installed. e.g.
> MySQL. Not only that but I need a python interface to that engine that
> the database API can use ?

Yes, you will need both database and python interface to access it.


> I think the web server I use will allow MySQL databases, so if I
> install it on my windoze box and install the MySQLdb python module
> then I'm well away....
 
Webserwer has nothing to do with database.
 
> Have I got it right ? Can I do 'date range' queries using MySQL,
> MySQLdb and the Python database API ?

Yes.

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sat Oct 23 20:39:07 2004
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (bearophile)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 17:39:07 -0700
Subject: How to play sound in Python?
References: <Msved.21689$OD2.7465@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <5c882bb5.0410231639.38b518eb@posting.google.com>

Bill Dandreta:
>The winsound module lets you play .wav files under windows.

Thank you.
You can also create "on the fly" memory-mapped wav files (with wave
and mmap modules, I think), and play them.

How to use the flag SND_PURGE for WAVs loaded from filename or memory
mapped?

Bear hugs,
Bearophile


From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Mon Oct 11 15:47:04 2004
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:47:04 -0600
Subject: Windows XP Balloon Tips?
In-Reply-To: <slrncmlmfg.fp.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
References: <1d6cdae3041011094946722f33@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.4714.1097514475.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrncmlmfg.fp.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <416AE338.2010406@pythonapocrypha.com>

Dave Benjamin wrote:
> In article <mailman.4714.1097514475.5135.python-list at python.org>, Dave Brueck wrote:
> 
>>Yep, very possible - we use it in one of our apps (the internal debate wrt 
>>whether or not we should have a tray icon is another story ;-) ). If you just 
>>need to display the balloons then you can use ctypes to call the 
>>shell32.Shell_NotifyIconA function (Google for NotifyIcon on MSDN to learn the 
>>gory details).
>>
> 
> Just out of curiosity, is there a way to do this also from PythonWin
> (without having ctypes installed)?

I haven't used pywin32 in a long time, but ASPN says Shell_NotifyIcon is supported:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/ActivePython/2.2/PyWin32/win32gui.html

So: probably doable, haven't tried it though.

-Dave


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Tue Oct 19 11:09:54 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:09:54 -0400
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
In-Reply-To: <1098194866.552318.234710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.5153.1098150302.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1098194866.552318.234710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cl3ao2$nn5$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Jonathan Ellis wrote:
> Heh.  "Large" depends on a lot of things, particularly connectedness,
> but I really can't picture 10k being large under any circumstances.
> -Jonathan
> 

It's large to me. Most sys-admin scripts/programs never cross 1K or 2K 
at the most. And Python works well for sys-admin tasks.


From pcslen at comcast.net  Sun Oct 10 15:10:50 2004
From: pcslen at comcast.net (Len Sumnler)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:10:50 GMT
Subject: Problem executing IDLE 
Message-ID: <_Ofad.102571$He1.29537@attbi_s01>

Hi all

I am trying to learn python.  When I try to run IDLE on my Windows XP it
does not appear to run.  Does anyone know why this is happening.

Thanks
Len Sumnler




From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sat Oct 30 05:31:31 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 02:31:31 -0700
Subject: What is Python's answer to Perl 6?
In-Reply-To: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <2uh4j7F2a86uqU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1099128691.7272.95.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 11:18 +0200, Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> another Perl/Python question: the subject says it all.
> 
> Perl is going to change dramatically to become a more powerful and
> easier to (read|write) language.
> 
> Is Python taking a similar step (-> Python 3) some time in the near future?

assert("Perl 6" < "Python 2")

Somehow I suspect that assertion will hold for the foreseeable future,
no matter how much the numbers change <wink>

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From wwitzel3 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 17 14:24:16 2004
From: wwitzel3 at gmail.com (Wayne Witzel III)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:24:16 -0700
Subject: Using os.system() and string concatenation
In-Reply-To: <ckhkq8$5j5$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
References: <7a2229ee041012114353157c1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<ckh9kr$q16$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<7a2229ee04101212215fadcb18@mail.gmail.com>
	<loom.20041012T221252-992@post.gmane.org>
	<mailman.4772.1097613893.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckhkq8$5j5$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <7a2229ee04101711243f425060@mail.gmail.com>

Actually found the problem. The editor he was using had a bug in it's
Python syntax highlighting and was placing weird tab sequences when
you saved.

Wayne

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:11:13 +0100, Michael Hoffman
<m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com> wrote:
> Wayne Witzel III wrote:
> > os.system("/usr/sbin/useradd"+ " -d " + user[0] + " -s " + user[1] + "
> > " + user[3])
> >
> > when I change os.system() to print .. it outputs just fine and I can
> > copy and paste the results and they execute. Just using os.system()
> > they do not execute unless I place the string in cmd variable first.
> >
> > cmd = "/usr/sbin/useradd"+ " -d " + user[0] + " -s " + user[1] + " " + user[3]
> > os.system(cmd)
> >
> > This works fine.
> 
> This is very odd, Wayne, and somewhat unexpected. What happens if you
> replace /usr/sbin/useradd with /bin/echo (or wherever your echo command is):
> 
>  >>> import os
>  >>> user = ["foo", "bar", "baz", "moo"]
>  >>> os.system("/bin/echo"+ " -d " + user[0] + " -s " + user[1] + " " +
> user[3])
> -d foo -s bar moo
> 0
>  >>> cmd = "/bin/echo"+ " -d " + user[0] + " -s " + user[1] + " " + user[3]
>  >>> os.system(cmd)
> -d foo -s bar moo
> 
> As others have said, os.spawnv() is probably a better choice anyway...
> --
> Michael Hoffman
> 
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 13:11:02 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:11:02 +0200
Subject: Question mark in variable and function names
References: <e4015abf.0410060701.5b9bcdee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gl90yk.v91yz8w1z0b2N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Andr? N?ss <andre.naess at gmail.com> wrote:

> One thing I liked about Lisp was the ability to use the question mark
> (and the exclamation mark) in function names. I found this
> particularily useful when checking boolean properties of a object like
> for example myObj.isContextSet. It just feels so much more natural to
> write myObj.contextSet?

Even though I haven't used Lisp extensively, I agree with you.  Naming
all predicates with a trailing question mark, and:

> I also found it neat that destructive operations were clearly marked
> with !.

ops which modify their arguments with a trailing bang, IS a great idea
for readability.  (I hope this shows that one's preferences are NOT
entirely determined by what one's used to: e.g., even though I speak
Italian and not Spanish, I think Spanish has two great ideas which
Italian should adopt [not one chance in a zillion that it will, sigh]:
start questions and exclamations with reversed versions of
questionmarks, and bangs, respectively; and, mark down ALL the accents
that don't fall in the default syllable...).

 
> Is there anything preventing this from being possible in Python?

Nothing except Guido's decisions in the matter.  As this would cause no
backwards incompatibility, it could even be introduced in Python 2.5,
_IF_ Guido could be convinced (of course, for backwards compatibility, a
zillion existing methods in built-ins and the Standard Library would
still be spelled like they are today -- unfortunate but inevitable; at
best you could add SYNONYMS with trailing qmarks and bangs, alas).

Ruby has this convention and it seems to work wonderfully well for them.
I wish Python could grow it, too, but I don't think I stand any chance
of convincing Guido -- perhaps somebody else can.


Alex


From follower at gmail.com  Tue Oct 12 23:04:47 2004
From: follower at gmail.com (Follower)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 20:04:47 -0700
Subject: Display context snippet for search phrase match optimisation request
Message-ID: <3c18c08f.0410121904.64daa33e@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am working on a function to return extracts from a text document
with a specific phrase highlighted (i.e. display the context of the
matched phrase).

The requirements are:

  * Match should be case-insensitive, but extract should have case
    preserved.
  
  * The extract should show N words or characters of context on both
    sides of the match.
  
  * The phrase should be highlighted. i.e. Bracketed by arbitrary text
    e.g. "<b>" & "</b>".
  
  * The phrase is simple. e.g. "double" or "Another option"
  
  * Only the first N matches should be returned.
  
  * There will always be at least one match. (The extracts are only
    requested if another process has determined a match exists in the
    document.)
  
  * The size of the text document varies from a few hundred
    kilobytes to a little under 20 megabytes.
  
I've found two alternative methods (included below) and was wondering
if anyone had suggestions for improvements. One method uses the string
"index()" method and the other uses a regular expression.

As tested, there seems to be a lack of consistency in results, in
"real world" testing the regular expression seems to be faster most of
the time, but in "timeit" tests it almost always seems to considerably
slower which surprised me. I'm beginning to think the only time when
the regular expression method is faster is when the matches are near
the beginning of the document.

I'm using the Python Swish-E binding
<http://jibe.freeshell.org/bits/SwishE/> on Windows with Python 2.3.
The purpose of the code is to display context for each found document
(which is actually a PDF file with the content converted to text).

In "real world" practice for a set of fifteen results there's only
around two to five seconds difference between the two methods, so I
should probably stop worrying about it. I really just wanted to know
if any other approach is likely to be significantly better. And if
not, then anyone else can feel free to use this code. :-)

--Phil.

# ========== Test Output ============

For the following test output: 

 "getNext_A" uses the "index()" string method.
 "getNext_B" uses regular expressions.
 

# 17MB file with phrase "simply"
------ getNext_B ------
1.2671 sec/pass
126.72300005

------ getNext_A ------
0.5441 sec/pass
54.4189999104

# 17MB file with phrase "auckland"
------ getNext_B ------
0.0054 sec/pass
0.530999898911

------ getNext_A ------
0.4429 sec/pass
44.2940001488

# 132KB file with phrase "simply"
------ getNext_B ------
0.0111 sec/pass
1.12199997902

------ getNext_A ------
0.0041 sec/pass
0.411000013351

# 132KB file with phrase "auckland"
------ getNext_B ------
0.0109 sec/pass
1.10099983215

------ getNext_A ------
0.0041 sec/pass
0.411000013351


# ========== Script file "test_context.py" ============
# Remove first two comment characters in each line used to preserve
white space
# for Usenet post.

###!/usr/bin/python
##
##FILENAME = r"17MB_document.txt"
##
###PHRASE = "auckland"
###PHRASE = "simply"
##PHRASE = "proceedings"
##
##MAX_MATCHES = 7
##
##RANGE = 40
##
##
##def getNext_A(content, phrase, limit):
##    """
##    """
##    lowContent = content.lower()
##    lowPhrase = phrase.lower()
##    phraseLen = len(phrase)
##
##    idx = -1
##    for matchCount in range(limit):
##        try:
##            idx = lowContent.index(lowPhrase, idx + 1)
##        except ValueError:
##            break
##        
##        yield (content[max([idx - RANGE, 0]): idx].lstrip(),
##               content[idx: idx + phraseLen],
##               content[idx + phraseLen : idx + phraseLen +
RANGE].rstrip())
##
##
##def getNext_B(content, phrase, limit):
##    """
##    """
##    matcher = re.compile(phrase, re.IGNORECASE) # TODO: Escape
"phrase"?
##
##    for match in itertools.islice(matcher.finditer(content), limit):
##        start, end = match.span()
##        yield (content[max([start - RANGE, 0]): start].lstrip(),
##               content[start: end],
##               content[end: end + RANGE].rstrip())
##
##
##def getContext(content, phrase, func):
##    """
##    """
##    results = []
##    for match in func(content, phrase, MAX_MATCHES):
##        results.append("...%s<b>%s</b>%s..." % match)
##    return "".join(results)
##
##    
##import timeit
##import time
##if __name__ == "__main__":
##    print 
##    content = open(FILENAME).read()
##
##    for (f, n) in [(getNext_B, "getNext_B"), (getNext_A,
"getNext_A") ]:
##        print "------ %s ------" % n
##        ta = time.time()
##        
##        t = timeit.Timer(stmt="getContext(content, PHRASE, %s)" % n,
##                         setup="from __main__ import getContext,
content,
##                         PHRASE, getNext_A, getNext_B")
##        print "%.4f sec/pass" % (t.timeit(number=100)/100)
##
##        print time.time() - ta
##
##        print
##        #print getContext(content, PHRASE, f)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 11:52:37 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:52:37 +0200
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted
	Data	Chunk Efficiently
In-Reply-To: <20041008083137.ED79.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
References: <mailman.4546.1097207828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glc4z2.kc2j86lfi22oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<20041008083137.ED79.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <13A479B6-1942-11D9-B9C9-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>


On 2004 Oct 08, at 17:38, Josiah Carlson wrote:
    ...
> I would hope that bsddb keeps track of tree location information in an
> intelligent way, so even if it is slower, it still beats a flat text
> file hands-down.
>
> It would likely not beat a real dbms, but it all depends on if the
> original poster finds that necessary.

Hmmmm -- I could be wrong, but doesn't MySql _use_ bsddb as its lower 
level at least for some kinds of tables?  Yet (for simple query) the 
vox populi has it "faster" than "real dbms"s... just wondering aloud...


Alex



From jeffrey at fro.man  Sat Oct 16 11:06:53 2004
From: jeffrey at fro.man (Jeffrey Froman)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:06:53 -0700
Subject: How can I get text of the body (payload) of an email?
References: <1097890188.684790.103490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <10n2e8di3nhhs22@corp.supernews.com>

andrew blah wrote:

> I want to get the text of the body - every character from the new line
> after the headers until the end of the message.
> 
> My objective is to do an SHA hash on the body text so the get_payload
> method isn't what I am after.

Funny, I recently undertook the same task. Here's my solution:

msg = email.message_from_string(foo)
x = sha.new()
for line in email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg):
    x.update(line)
hash = x.digest()

This very cool iterator returns every body line, but skips all the headers,
including the headers present in each sub-part of the email. If you only
want plain text parts, you might combine this iterator with
email.Iterators.typed_subpart_iterator().

Jeffrey


From zathras at thwackety.com  Thu Oct  7 18:43:37 2004
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:43:37 +0100
Subject: PyGUI Homepage
References: <opsfibb8t2r0m89z@fx1025>
Message-ID: <4165b227$0$48004$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>

Jonas Hei wrote:

> I am trying to get PyGUI but the homepage at
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python_gui/
> seems to have moved (or may be its just broken)
> 
> Has it moved?
> 
> Can I download it from somewhere else?

I've noticed intermittent problems in the past with the above webserver -
different parts of it seem to disappear periodically. Currently the above
URL redirects to the one below for me:

   http://nz.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python_gui

A few hours ago I was getting 404s, but then large chunks of that
department's website was doing the same. Maybe they're doing local
upgrades or something ?

Regards,


Michael.



From TheDolphin at ivonet.nl  Fri Oct 22 09:43:00 2004
From: TheDolphin at ivonet.nl (Ivo Woltring)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:43:00 +0200
Subject: Newbie Question
References: <4C1ed.5243$TU5.3711@trndny06>
Message-ID: <41790e67$0$765$3a628fcd@reader10.nntp.hccnet.nl>

google on

Dive into Python
and
Text processing in Python

these are very good books (and online gettable 4 free)
but not 4 the absolute beginner

cheerz,
Ivo.

"John Smith" <oldphartyankee at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4C1ed.5243$TU5.3711 at trndny06...
> Aside from the text online, what are the best books for a newbie learning
> python as their first language?
>
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  1 12:12:51 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 18:12:51 +0200
Subject: C API eqivalent of object.__new__
References: <tyfis9uewct.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<tyfekkieka4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<1gkzg4y.a7sne11n04ng0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfacv6e98e.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1gkzozy.dbfgcurv3dfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
   ...
> I was indeed starting to think about PyObject_Call* approaches to
> this, but didn't want to go down that path without making sure that I
> haven't missed some function that was specifically designed to do it.
> 
> If _you_ don't know of one, then I'll take that to mean that I
> shouldn't waste more time looking for it :-)
> 
> Thanks.

You're welcome, but wrong (even though very kind!-) in assuming I
necessarily know every nook and cranny of Python's C API -- more often
than not, I focus on getting the job done, which means using the easiest
way (generally PyObject_somethingorother), then possibly go back looking
for potential acceleration, if and only if I need to optimize.  "Make it
work, make it right, make it fast", as Kent Beck says!-).  I've never
needed to optimize this specific case, so I wouldn't be surprised to
learn about better and faster approaches...


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 20 05:55:55 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:55:55 +0200
Subject: reverse Jython
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<mailman.5172.1098197357.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41759f7d$1@news.unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1glyebd.1afm95x1ip4x1cN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Maurice LING <mauriceling at acm.org> wrote:
   ...
> MacClaren and trying to catch it...... This is why although PyPy is an
> important piece of work and by achieving that (even slower than Jython)
> will be a proof of concept of python's completeness, it is not quite 
> suitable as an part of academic work. Not to mention that it is near 
> impossible to get developers' documentation (the rationale behind each
> function and classes)......

The latter is an aspect on which we _definitely_ plan to do much better
in the future, btw -- we have ambitious projects for dissemination of
information, enhanced documentation, easing the use of pypy for all sort
of teaching and research support.  But that doesn't resolve your issue
wrt the "suitable as part of academic work" (=="detached from real-world
usefulness"); we definitely DO plan to be real-world meaningful!-)


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 30 04:37:06 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:37:06 +0200
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5689.1099092886.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gmgt43.95s52px44e9pN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

<exarkun at divmod.com> wrote:
   ...
> > def number_in_base(x, N, digits, maxlen=99):
> >     return '-'[x>=0:] + (
> >         (x and ''.join([digits[k%N] for i in range(maxlen) 
> >                         for k in [abs(x)//N**i] if k>0])[::-1]
> >         ) or digits[0])
   ...
>   range(maxlen) can be replaced with range(int(math.log(x) / math.log(N))
+ 1).

Right!  I had missed that because I was focusing on builtin names only.
Thanks!

 
>   Also, and perhaps you are already aware, number_in_base(x, 1, '0')

Yes, I was aware that the pre condition N>=2 (as well as other
preconditions, such as len(digits) >= N) are not checked; sorry for not
making that clear.

> doesn't produce the correct output with the above algorithm, although I
> believe it will if you switch to using math.log().

With math.log it raises a ZeroDivisionError -- arguably more correct
than a bunch of 0's, yes.  It's interesting that the math.log
application does catch such errors as N<2;-).


Alex


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct  6 18:30:04 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 15:30:04 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <2sj4u9F1keh1uU1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041005111159.ECE0.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4162f360$0$55262$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<10m8hf0rkv5m000@corp.supernews.com>
	<2sj4u9F1keh1uU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <10m8sc4oud9h4e3@corp.supernews.com>

Daniel Ellison wrote:

> Jeff Shannon wrote:
>
>> That's always been my thought.  Another cliche phrase that seems to 
>> me to be used counter to its explicit sense is the exclamation, "Oh 
>> the humanity!"  The context always seems to suggest that it's being 
>> used to imply INhumanity...
>
>
> "Oh, the humanity!" is a direct quote from the radio host covering the 
> arrival (and subsequent demise) of the Hindenburg at New Jersey's 
> Lakehurst Naval Air Station in 1937. He was a bit perturbed at the 
> time...


Ahh, yes, now that you mention it, I do recall that -- I've certainly 
heard that recorded broadcast, I just hadn't made the connection 
there...  At least now I know where it came from, and that it's not 
(necessarily) just an ignorantly-parroted misspeaking.  (Though I do 
still find myself wondering how many users of the phrase realize that it 
*is* a misspeaking, nevermind how understandable given the circumstances...)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 13:18:19 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:18:19 -0300
Subject: Style question on recursive generators
In-Reply-To: <20041020134321.GA22619@unpythonic.net>
References: <mailman.5106.1098099788.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.5108.1098104071.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glv17s.hq00886bg9exN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<864d370904101807572c49d989@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F0E17D2-2137-11D9-8317-000A95EFAE9E@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5152.1098149022.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glwdd4.s05uuadrav97N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2tlvdiF20ldc8U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1gly6gz.1e3w9r85y0tbjN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<20041020134321.GA22619@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <864d3709041020101810f92d25@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:43:22 -0500, Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 09:12:59AM +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > Anyway, the bytecode that idiom makes is something like:
> >
> >               3 LOAD_FAST                0 (other)
> >               6 GET_ITER
> >         >>    7 FOR_ITER                10 (to 20)
> >              10 STORE_FAST               1 (x)
> >              13 LOAD_FAST                1 (x)
> >              16 YIELD_VALUE
> >              17 JUMP_ABSOLUTE            7
> 
> I think that the other thing the compiler must recognize, beyond this
> sequence, is that "x" is dead below the loop (no longer used, or stored
> to before the next use).

I've read somewhere else that there are plans to make the loop
variable to be limited in scope _to the loop only. Not sure about the
details though.
 
> On the other hand, I guess the new YIELD_VALUES opcode could leave the
> last value on the top of the stack, replacing this sequence with
>     LOAD_FAST    0 (other)
>     GET_ITER
>     YIELD_VALUES
>     STORE_FAST   1 (x)
> I was imagining that YIELD_VALUES would not put anything on the stack,
> if it was used to implement a new 'yield from'/'yield *' statement.

As per your own observation, the STORE_FAST above is not needed, now
that the loop on 'x' was removed. The removal of the bytecode-level
loop (the JUMP_ABSOLUTE bytecode) would probably give some measurable
performance gain. But -- again -- it all depends on whether such idiom
is common enough.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 16:12:36 2004
From: dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$# at gmail.com (Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:12:36 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5309.1098442610.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41790054$0$203$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<8LidnXE_n6jmm-TcRVn-1A@giganews.com>
	<1gm2nnu.pulnabm1193eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tO-dnRthz6m9_eTcRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
	<1gm2vee.o0lwqk1h3npjsN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<Qd6dnUTV2ZBkBefcRVn-pg@giganews.com>
	<1gm4rq5.1c25kfc12o6jivN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<417cb790$0$226$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<slrncnq86k.os.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
	<1gm8d6x.hvrljyulw27dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <slrncnqnhk.os.dialtone.##NOSPAM#$#$$#@vercingetorix.caesar.org>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> OK, but the problem is, who supplies My_Fragment, and how is said
> fragment going to be parameterized.

My_Fragment is supplied by the programmer, with a content template from the
designer. A Fragment is Page's Superclass which doesn't implement
locateChild and Formless logic (which are not needed in a fragment). 

> Still, this doesn't let the author of the markup (only), who by
> definition is not going to touch the code, define his/her own macros.

The designer should simply provide some slots that need to be filled with a
fragment. Then, renders inside data marked tags (even if those slots are in
a fragment) inherit the same returned data, so you can parametrize the
rendered content through data passed from a directive, or through arguments
passed from url, or through instantiation.

> Nevertheless, I think you _could_, in nevow, define the renderers needed
> to let the markup-only person code, once:
>
> <div n:render="define_macro box">
>     <h5> <n:slot name="title"/> </h5>
>     <n:slot name="content"/>
> </div>
>
> which stashes away the contents and renders nothing, and then, as many
> time as desired, stuff such as:
>
> <n:invisible n:render="expand_macro box">
>     <n:invisible n:pattern="title">The title of this box</n:invisible>
>     <n:invisible n:pattern="content">
>        The title of this box, an <strong>arbitrary</strong> piece of
>        text and/or various markup.
>     </n:invisible>
> </n:invisible>

Sure, this could be used as writing a default fragment that defines its own
renders and data methods (with a template that calls those methods).

I've implemented such a thing in weever which can be found here:
http://developer.berlios.de/projects/weever/
There is only one main index page that act as a container for all the other
pages. My render_content method does something like:

def render_content(self, ctx, data):
    ctx.tag.fillSlots('content', self.content)

Where content is provided during instantiation of the page class like this:

def child_topic(self, ctx, data=None):
    return topic.Topic(data, ctnt=topic.TopicContent)

> Still, render_define_macro and render_expand_macro do not come
> predefined with nevow (at least so far).  It probably wouldn't be too
> difficult to code them, of course, but _designing_ them just right is
> both harder and more important -- I'm anything but sure that the
> architecture implied in this example-use sketch is best (the ZPT example
> leaves me far from sure it's really all that well designed, either;-).

There are at least 2 proposals for macro stuff in Nevow, and at least one
has already been implemented by Matt Goodall. But, its main purpose is not
to provide a way to include some page inside another one (which is clearly
already possible even with parametrization) but to provide a better way of
skinning a page. Of course it could be used for both :)

> This, I believe, is part of nevow not being fully mature yet; at release
> 0.3, of course, full maturity should not yet be expected, either.  ZPT
> is older and wiser.  Nevertheless, the fundamental architecture of nevow
> appears to be sound and very promising (for the templating part, at
> least; I'll reserve my opinion about the other parts!), and if the worst
> that could be said of it is that it may still lack some convenience
> predefined general-purpose renderers such as define_macro and
> expand_macro, well, that sure won't be very hard to remedy (getting such
> convenience add-ons designed right is the interesting challenge; the
> coding, with nevow's power at hand, is the easy part).

It also lacks some built-in components to make creating web pages just a
snap :), maybe also some documentation. But we are working on it. Also,
convenience renderers, if provided with a good usecase, could be included in
a nevow-extra package, maybe, (togheter with those built-in components).

-- 
Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone
Now running FreeBSD 5.3-beta7
Blog: http://vvolonghi.blogspot.com



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Oct  5 15:09:20 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:09:20 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <vu6dnfgkFdRNG__cRVn-hA@powergate.ca>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Ovp8d.3155$M05.74@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4311.1096951351.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<vu6dnfgkFdRNG__cRVn-hA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <4162f52e$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Peter L Hansen wrote:
>... 2. You (Richard) are being remarkably mild-mannered in accepting
> the criticisms (which are wholly justified, mind you ;-) being
> levelled against you, at least compared to the last ten people that
> unwittingly did something similar....

I want to thank you, Peter, for reminding me of the c.l.p. standard
of politeness,  I read the initial question and blew it off.  Later
out of boredom I started reading this thread and found (much to my
surprise) that Richard seemed to be listening, responding without
being (too) defensive, and genuinely interested in doing follow-up.

I do find myself getting a bit more cranky at silly questions, and
needed this refresher course in, "sometimes the author doesn't really
know what he is asking for."

> -Peter


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 13:58:14 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:58:14 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <slrncmplmh.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmn4hf.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<10mo6q66oi0kj04@corp.supernews.com>
	<slrncmplmh.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <10mqr0rlj9h6r69@corp.supernews.com>

Antoon Pardon wrote:

>Op 2004-10-12, Jeff Shannon schreef <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
>  
>
>>Functions are at a different level of granularity than numbers and 
>>lists.  Anonymity makes sense for numbers and lists; it makes less sense 
>>for collections of numbers and lists; and it makes still less sense for 
>>organized collections of numbers, lists, and operations thereon, which 
>>are structured in a meaningful way to express some (part of an) 
>>algorithm.
>>    
>>
>
>I find it better to let the coder decide what makes sense in his program
>and what not.
>  
>

Which is the Perl philosophy.  Many people seem quite happy with Perl 
because of this TMTOWTDI attitude; personally, I prefer Python's clarity 
and simplicity.

>>Similarly, I don't expect each line of code to have an 
>>individual name, but once I collect lines of code into a file, I 
>>certainly *do* expect to name that file, even if the file is only one or 
>>two lines long.
>>    
>>
>
>So? If you then want to develop the code, do you put the new code in a
>new file and then use a program to include it, or do you put unnamed
>text in the already existing file?
>  
>

Actually, I effectively do both of those, depending on circumstances.  
(Opening a new editor, typing in it, and then pasting that text into the 
middle of an existing file.)  However, in this (admittedly weak, 
especially when pushed this far) analogy, a lambda is equivalent to 
putting the text in a new file, and insisting that that file not be 
given a name and be kept separate from the parent file, but be 
programmatically included nonetheless.  Would you *want* to do that, 
even if your operating system allowed it?

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From grante at visi.com  Sun Oct 24 11:50:27 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 15:50:27 GMT
Subject: Is this group for newbies?
References: <DINed.193222$as2.133033@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <417bcf43$0$516$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-24, ed18hg <ed18hg at brllsouth.net> wrote:

> I'm looking for a Python newbie group.

I don't think there is one.

> I don't want to get flamed by asking in the wrong place.

Ask away.  This isn't comp.lang.c. ;)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  FIRST, I was in a
                                  at               TRUCK...THEN, I was in
                               visi.com            a DINER...


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Oct 28 21:00:22 2004
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:00:22 -0400
Subject: Looking for more Cookbook contributors
References: <0kavn019dk6vf7ini32t3muc9e6r9j7t1n@4ax.com><mailman.5575.1098897039.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gmdbxx.o57i68hu9achN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cls4n6$gpi$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1gmdbxx.o57i68hu9achN%aleaxit at yahoo.com...
> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>   ...
>> 1. list the invalid (bouncing) email address you have, if any.

> inconsiderate to list a mail address for somebody who has not explicitly
> "published" that address, and attract spam to that address thereby,
> though.

Of course, especially if in machine harvestible form, which is why I 
specified 'invalid'.  My unstated point still stands: if one asks 'Do you 
have better info than I do', it is much easier to sensibly respond if the 
requestor lists the known info.

> It's that one.  It's not invalid: we don't see bounces.  Our mails are
> just getting ignored -- that's all we know.

I am surprised.  Maybe some mail systems have given up on bounces, perhaps 
since they validate the good addresses by not bouncing.

> takes far too much time and energy to chase down everybody we'd want to
> credit as a contributor in order to get proper permissions and snailmail
> addresses for complimentary copies.

You have my sympathy.  When my wife published an art history book with 
photos of sculptures owned by 30+ entities, getting all the needed 
permissions, often requiring owner-specific forms, was not the funnest part 
;-).

Terry J. Reedy





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 02:48:41 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:48:41 +0200
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gm9a9j.s0b279yqpnlvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410262005.7a609ac4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1gmb426.1m5c0za6gsyydN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

kartik <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote:

> aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote in message
news:<1gm9a9j.s0b279yqpnlvN%aleaxit at yahoo.com>...
> > Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > optional constraint checking [...] can be a handy feature for many kinds
> > of applications [...] Of course, this has nothing to do with silly and
> > arbitrary bounds such as 2**31-1.
> 
> bounds such as 2**31 are a crude form of constraint checking that you
> get by default. if you feel your data is going to be larger, you can
> use a long type

Too crude to be any real use, and wrong-headed _as a default_.
Constraints should apply _when explicitly requested_, with the default
always being "unconstrained".  (It's a wart in Python that we don't get
that with recursion, for example; it forces people to look for
non-recursive solutions, where recursive ones are simpler and smoother,
because it robs recursive approaches of some generality).


Alex


From ahaas at airmail.net  Mon Oct  4 11:37:54 2004
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:37:54 -0500
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Seventeenth release of PythonCAD now available
Message-ID: <20041004153754.GA6674@artsapartment.org>

Hi.

I'm pleased to announce the seventeenth development release of PythonCAD,
a CAD package for open-source software users. As the name implies,
PythonCAD is written entirely in Python. The goal of this project is
to create a fully scriptable drafting program that will match and eventually
exceed features found in commercial CAD software. PythonCAD is released
under the GNU Public License (GPL).

PythonCAD requires Python 2.2 or Python 2.3. The interface is GTK 2.0
based, and uses the PyGTK module for interfacing to GTK. The design of
PythonCAD is built around the idea of separating the interface
from the back end as much as possible. By doing this, it is hoped
that both GNOME and KDE interfaces can be added to PythonCAD through
usage of the appropriate Python module. Addition of other interfaces
will depend on the availability of a Python module for that particular
interface and developer interest and action.

The seventeenth releases of PythonCAD can print! This release includes
the ability of the program to generate a PostScript file that can either
be sent to a printer or saved directly to a file. Printing support is not
entirely complete however, and will be enhanced over the next several
release. This release also includes improvements in the user interface
for changing existing drawing entities, especially text and dimensions.
There have been numerous improvements made to the code for these
entities as well, and subsequent releases will continue this effort.
This release also includes a restructured code layout that should make
PythonCAD less likely to cause unexpected interactions with other Python
based programs like Zope. Finally, various improvements in the undo/redo
code, plus a good number of bug fixes, are included in this release.

The mailing list for the development and use of PythonCAD is available.
Visit the following page for information about subscribing and viewing
the mailing list archive:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythoncad

Visit the PythonCAD web site for more information about what PythonCAD
does and aims to be:

http://www.pythoncad.org/

Come and join me in developing PythonCAD into a world class drafting
program!

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822


From agriff at tin.it  Thu Oct 28 14:54:10 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:54:10 GMT
Subject: strong/weak typing and pointers
References: <slrnco26s8.311.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
	<clr722$mak$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <uef2o0dkckqmnifgpt78n3sg8ai6a1g05c@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:34:12 +0200, "Diez B. Roggisch"
<deetsNOSPAM at web.de> wrote:

>> Is it correct to say that strong/weak typing does not make a difference
>> if one does not use any pointers (or adress-taking operator)?
>
>It seems that you mistake strong/weak typing with static/dynamic typing - a
>completely different beast.
>
>Python is in fact strong typed - in opposition to php or perl or even C,
>this won't work:
>
>a = "1" + 2
>
>as "1" is a string and 2 an integer. And even though C is statically typed,
>it won't complain - you just end up with an unexpected result.

You didn't mention C++. Try this ...

   std::string s = "Wow";
   s += 3.141592654; // Perfectly valid
   s = 3.141592654;  // Also valid

Andrea


From jerf at jerf.org  Sun Oct 10 15:25:16 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:25:16 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<Tt7ad.1028$Bw1.157@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<41695598$0$534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.10.16.48.24.930075@jerf.org>

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:30:32 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> While I agree with your points, they're immaterial to the
> argument I was making.  The poster to which I responded was
> arguing that "xor" didn't make sense because having it coerce
> it's arguments to booleans was "wrong".

I didn't say "wrong", I said "non-obvious".

And, with respect, the fact that you have to argue your point is evidence
in my favor. Of course "proof" would require a comprehensive survey, and I
think we can all agree this point isn't worth such effort :-)

But I do think that a bitwise operator should silently transform to a
logical operator for strings is not obvious.

What is 388488839405842L ^ "hello"?

Python says that's an "unsupported operand type(s) for ^: 'long' and
'str'". Why is it wrong?

This would also work if Python were more like C++ and we could define

xor(string, string)
xor(int, int) 

and be done with it, but in Python, there should be an obvious meaning for
int ^ string, and there isn't.

It is also true that I recommended the OP consider subclassing string to
make ^ do what he wants. But it seems to be reasonably well expected that
while user classes can do what they like with operators (as long as they
are willing to pay the sometimes-subtle prices, especially the ones
involved with poorly defining __cmp__), that the core language should not
do such things.


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Oct 22 13:29:59 2004
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:29:59 -0500
Subject: [Python-mode] Recent python-mode updates
In-Reply-To: <1098395542.8515.63.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
References: <16760.11220.529395.363981@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<1098395542.8515.63.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <16761.17303.153606.92171@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    >> For those who don't monitor python-mode checkins (does anyone? I
    >> doubt it),

    Barry> You're probably right, since AFAICT, python-mode checkin messages
    Barry> don't actually go anywhere.  Should I hook it up to syncmail and
    Barry> direct the checkin messages to python-mode at python.org (I really
    Barry> don't want to create Yet Another Mailing List for such expected
    Barry> low traffic).

I think that would be a good idea (+ syncmail, not another list).

    >> If you have any questions, please direct them to
    >> python-mode at python.org.  If you find bugs or have enhancements,
    >> please submit a ticket on the python-mode project at SourceForge.

    Barry> We should plan on a few things with python-mode, related to the
    Barry> Python 2.4 release.  We need to merge a stable copy back into
    Barry> Python's Misc directory.  Right now its got 4.41 while the
    Barry> current version in the python-mode project is 4.63.  We should
    Barry> also let upstream providers (the FSF and XEmacs folks) know when
    Barry> we've got a stable release for them to sync to.  Any thoughts on
    Barry> that?

The next XEmacs beta (21.5.18?) was just released, so we missed that train.
I imagine the xemacs-packages are released on their own schedule though.

I have a patch that's been given to me a few times I need to apply to
python-mode.el.  I'll try to take care of that over the weekend.  As for
distributing with Python or XEmacs, now that we have multiple files and both
Emacs Lisp as well as Python files perhaps we need to write a (shudder)
install script.  Also, some short user docs, probably in ReST format, would
be a good idea.  I have no idea how to use Ken's pdbtrack stuff, and things
like the new TAB cycling, while not all that magical, should still be
documented.

Skip


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 12:45:39 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:45:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Interface of the set classes
References: <41824654$0$1779$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <loom.20041029T182610-726@post.gmane.org>

Pierre Barbier de Reuille <pierre.barbier <at> cirad.fr> writes:
>
> For me, sets are first sequences. I use set where lists are inefficient 
> or inadapted, for example when I need to remove redundancy and that I 
> don't care about the positions of my elements.

If you still need a fixed ordering after removing duplicates, why don't you just
revert to a list?

>>> l = [11, 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 11, 3, 7, 5]
>>> list(set(l))
[1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 11]
>>> d = list(set(l))
>>> d[3]
5

Of course, if you want to maintain the order that items are inserted, you can
easily do this manually:

>>> class orderedset(set):
... 	def __init__(self, seq):
... 		super(set, self).__init__()
... 		self._items = []
... 		for item in seq:
... 			self.add(item)
... 	def add(self, item):
... 		if item not in self:
... 			self._items.append(item)
... 		set.add(self, item)
... 	def __iter__(self):
... 		return iter(self._items)
... 	def __getitem__(self, i):
... 		return self._items[i]
... 
>>> list(orderedset([11, 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 11, 3, 7, 5]))
[11, 1, 2, 3, 5, 7]
>>> orderedset([11, 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 11, 3, 7, 5])[2:4]
[2, 3]

And, while you're writing your own class to do this, you can change your method
names to append, etc. if you like.  =)

The point here, I guess, is that the uses you intend for sets probably do not
align so well with the uses everyone else has for sets.  Personally, I don't
expect any ordering in a set, and if I need such ordering I convert back to a
list.  I also almost never use the lst[x] syntax, preferring in general to just
iterate with a for-loop (or list comprehension, or generator expression...)  If
you find you do need the lst[x] syntax all the time, first, I'd double-check to
see if I couldn't write things better with a for-loop, and then, if I was still
pretty sure I couldn't, I'd write my orderedset class as above...

Steve



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 13 13:37:09 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:37:09 -0700
Subject: failed delivery messages
In-Reply-To: <416D59D6.4020209@cloudthunder.com>
References: <1097682390.12092.183.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
	<416D59D6.4020209@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <1097689030.12092.220.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 12:37 -0400, Richard Blackwood wrote:
> Cliff Wells wrote:
> 
> >                              From: 
> >zonk at azet.sk
> >                                To: 
> >Cliff Wells
> ><clifford.wells at comcast.net>
> >                           Subject: 
> >Sprava nebola dorucena (Message was
> >not delivered)
> >                              Date: 
> >13 Oct 2004 15:26:00 -0000  (08:26
> >PDT)
> >
> >Okay, I hate to bitch, but is there any possibility of canceling this
> >subscription?  I'm tired of getting a failed delivery message from this
> >guy every time I post to the list.
> >
> >Sigh.  Perhaps I'm just grumpy from lack of sleep (and Unicode).  Or
> >maybe it's time to start mangling my email address like others do.
> >
> >:P
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> Yeah, I also hate this.  How does one mangle one's email address?

Well, in Evolution I'd probably just set up another account with a bogus
email address and whenever I post to lists, simply select that account
to send from.  In a newsreader, you can set your email address to
anything you like, so it's about the same there.  I'm not sure about
other mailers, but I'd guess that as long as they support having more
than one email address it should be fairly simple. 

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From tim at zeos.net  Mon Oct 11 12:31:22 2004
From: tim at zeos.net (Timothy Babytch)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:31:22 +0300
Subject: From dictionary keys to variables
In-Reply-To: <6f402501.0410110433.172a6c26@posting.google.com>
References: <6f402501.0410110433.172a6c26@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckecld$1qun$1@news.dg.net.ua>

Michael Foord wrote:
Why cheat? There is legal way to do that:

for entry in valuelist:
	globals()[entry] = config[entry]

> Now is there any reason not to 'cheat' and use __main__.__dict__ to
> create the variables ?
> 
> valuelist = ['name1', 'name2', 'name3'....]
> config = ConfigObj(filename, configspec=valuelist)
> import __main__
> for entry in valuelist:
>         __main__.__dict__[entry] = config[entry]




-- 
Timothy Babytch
--
You know you've achieved perfection in design,
  not when you have nothing more to add,
  but when you have nothing more to take away.


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 17:59:03 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:59:03 -0300
Subject: Creating new classes on the fly
In-Reply-To: <d50f6c8a041005140410a52640@mail.gmail.com>
References: <864d3709041005135353c0214e@mail.gmail.com>
	<d50f6c8a041005140410a52640@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041005145918eaf951@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:04:39 -0800, Troy Melhase <troy.melhase at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've had the same need recently, and I've found that coding the class
> as part of a closure is readable (untested code):
> 
> def my_custom_class():
>     some_param = lookup_param() # now part of the lexical scope, can be mutable
> 
>     class MyCustomClass:
>         default_param = some_param
> 
>     return MyCustomClass
> 
> CustomizedClass1 = my_custom_class()
> CustomizedClass2 = my_custom_class()
> 
> instances_of_one = [CustomizedClass1(), CustomizedClass1(), ]
> instances_of_two = [CustomizedClass2(), CustomizedClass2(), ]
> 
> Good luck,
> troy
 
I've done exactly that for one of my classes, for the first test.
However, I really felt that some better way should exist out of
creating an enclosing function for every one of the classes.

I've right now finished a small "class decorator" -- a function that
takes a class and a bunch of named parameters, and that returns a new
function that acts as a class constructor of sorts. It's something
like this:

next_id = itertools.count().next

def InheritedClassFactory(klass):
    def ClassDecorator(*args, **kw):
        newname = klass.__name__ + '_' + str(next_id())
        newklass = type(newname, (klass, ), kw)
        return newklass
    return ClassDecorator

MyClass = InheritedClassFactory(MyClass)

It's interesting that this is one situation where a metaclass isn't of
much help, while a class decorator does the trick. Of course, I'm
assuming that I really need to do it, but other solutions (not
involving the creation of new classes) may be better (but I'm not
aware of any such options).

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Mon Oct 11 15:53:29 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:53:29 +0200
Subject: ANN: Snakelets 1.35 (simple-to-use web app server with dynamic
	pages)
Message-ID: <416ae4b9$0$78749$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

I'm happy to say that Snakelets 1.35 is available.

Snakelets is a very simple-to-use Python web application server.
This project provides a built-in threaded web server (so you don't
need to set up Apache or another web server), Ypages (HTML+Python
language, similar to Java's JSPs) and Snakelets: code-centric page
request handlers (similar to Java's Servlets).
Snakelets is fully unicode compatible and it's possible to run it
from a CD (read-only mode).

It's released under the open-source MIT Software license.

You can download from http://snakelets.sourceforge.net
(go to the SF project site, and then the file section).

Recent changes include:

* IMPORTANT: privileges are now also checked when using HTTP auth methods
* various documentation improvements and spelling corrections
* LoginPage base class improvements
* Ypage compiler improvements
* general bug fixes
* fixed the http-gzip-compressor plugin (separate download)


To start, edit the vhost config file (see docs) and
then run the serv.py script, or the monitor.py script
if you want to start it as a daemon (on Unix).

Enjoy,
--Irmen de Jong.


P.S. if you want to see it in action, visit www.promozilla.nl
      (the site is in Dutch though)



From ksenia at ksenia.nl  Sun Oct 24 07:48:22 2004
From: ksenia at ksenia.nl (Ksenia Marasanova)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:48:22 +0200
Subject: almost Flyton?
Message-ID: <9B2FCE5C-25B2-11D9-92C7-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>

Laszlo went Open Source:  http://openlaszlo.com/

 From the description:
"""
LZX is an XML and JavaScript description language similar in spirit to 
XUL and XAML. LZX enables a declarative, text-based development process 
that supports rapid prototyping and software development best 
practices."""

The presentation server works on "J2EE application server or Java 
servlet"...
But it may become optional in a few months!

 From http://www.davidtemkin.com/:
"""
With Laszlo's new business model built on top of an open-source 
platform, we are now in a position to make the presentation server an 
optional component of a Laszlo deployment. Sometime over the next few 
months, we'll release a build that allows you to compile LZX files on a 
developer's machine, and post the resulting SWF to a Web server. The 
SWF in the browser will communicate with XML and media sources 
directly, with no intervening presentation (proxy) server. For many 
Laszlo applications, this will mean no need to install Java on the 
server, no need to deal with new servlets or test presentation server 
scalability."""

Now we only need a Python library to generate LZX... and Flython is 
born? ;-)

Ksenia.



From gmduncan at swiftdsl.com.au  Sun Oct  3 05:39:34 2004
From: gmduncan at swiftdsl.com.au (gmduncan)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 19:39:34 +1000
Subject: "Alien v. Predator"  (was Re: Unexpected Python Behavior)
In-Reply-To: <1gkzdqj.12l7f9b1n0p9plN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <4e4a11f8.0409232355.6ba0468d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.3834.1096015522.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
	<1gkzdqj.12l7f9b1n0p9plN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <415FC8D6.1030706@swiftdsl.com.au>


(Hopefully a humourous followup - click here to escape.)

Yup, I walked 5 ks into town today to watch the movie only to find the
cinema was closed. Grumble - trudge back home (avoiding swooping nesting 
magpies) to kick the cats and then browse c.l.p to relax (such a nice civilized 
news-group).

And I see this - tusk, tusk.  Jeez these Mediterranean types know
how to perpetuate a feud. Make you wonder what their married life would be like   ;)

OOPs - just saw the clock; "The Godfathers" now on TV !

Bye

- Gary


P.S. Don't tell  mee which of these vicious critters won ( I'm talking about
this c.l.p exchange - I'll see the movie tomorrow and see that victor ;)




Alex Martelli wrote:
> Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I didn't reply to Alex message because it's clear that he has
>>a very personal problem with me (and ... no, I've no idea why).
> 
> 
> I don't know why you started posting flaming attacks against me four
> years or so ago (on Italian newsgroups on C++, where you were advocating
> returning error codes rather than raising exceptions, and I the
> reverse), but it was so blatant (you specifically accused me of
> intellectual dishonesty, just like that, out of the blue!) that I
> killfiled you -- and I remember a few days later somebody _else_ (who
> actually agreed with you on the technical aspects of the discussion!)
> was trying to point out to you that you were the one who had exceeded
> the boundaries of good taste and indulged in uncalled-for personal
> attacks.  We're talking years 2000 or 2001, not the dark ages, so I bet
> Google Groups has everything in its archives if one just googles for
> both of our surnames together.
> 
> Of course, I'm using a different newsreader now, with a different
> killfile and all, and I wasn't reminded of that occasion until you
> showed your colors again -- now, I see, by trying to accuse _me_ of
> having mysterious personal problems with you, when each time the foam is
> so evidently at _your_ mouth...
> 
> 
>>My decision so was to stop feeding his hate and I ignored him;
> 
> 
> Oh, I see, _that_ must be why you spewed so much venom in your post that
> yet another "innocent bystander" felt it had to be condemned...!
> 
> Guess you deserve commendation for your consistency: four years ago you
> said you were new to C++ yet had the arrogance to start personal attacks
> and insults against me on the subject, now you say you're new to Python
> and you behave identically -- my compliments.
> 
> Well, *PLONK* again, then, hopefully for good.
> 
> 
> Alex


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Oct 27 03:35:17 2004
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 00:35:17 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <mailman.5538.1098846078.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5339b60d.0410262335.699e903a@posting.google.com>

kartik vaddadi <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.5538.1098846078.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> --- Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> > 
> > Overflow errors are not automated tests.
> 
> why not? they detect bugs.

Yes, but usually not until your expensive space hardware is over (and
subsequently in) the Atlantic Ocean.

Paul


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 11:12:39 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:12:39 -0300
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <nkc4m0dkiqqkrmlouib0rmcl8sqv6hnb0u@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.4227.1096839829.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fu-dnW0ayarAGf3cRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
	<a321m0ptb8j9rfq01mrd5pn9vg791njquf@4ax.com>
	<opmdnfljLrvGPf3cRVn-qQ@powergate.ca>
	<nkc4m0dkiqqkrmlouib0rmcl8sqv6hnb0u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <864d370904100508121a3a2388@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 06:10:17 GMT, Andrea Griffini <agriff at tin.it> wrote:
> In this field seems to me that really people try to
> get above by standing on each other feet instead than
> on each other shoulders; but this doesn't look to me
> like just a software problem.

Nice definition.
 
> ... (I can't think to a customer
> even *wanting* to change the library version in a NC
> machine he bought, often the investments are rather
> high and the approach I see is "if it works just don't
> dare to think about touching it") 

I think you've nailed the root of the problem (or at least one of the
roots). For the most part, customers tend to be careful, and they
approach solutions in this area as true 'black boxes'. It may be
because they're afraid of the unknown, or because bugs in control
software can be really costly, and they don't want to be held liable
for it (at least they can say, "I never messed with it, if it's
broken, it's not my fault").

Put in other words: In many cases (not all, of course), the people who
buy this stuff are not engineers -- who in some cases are not even
involved with the process --, but the money guys. It's expensive, it
will save the company money, so the money guys sign the bill... but
only if someone else (the vendor) takes full responsibility for it.
It's a recipe for close solutions, in my opinion. The money guys also
tend to buy the same stuff other companies bought, which makes this
behavior self-sustaining, in a way.

Keeping with the same reasoning line, why don't the engineers that
work in the company take more responsibility? Because they were never
in such a position. They don't have a choice. They have to keep things
running, period. The one who messes up with stuff is fired. And doing
development is not their company business, anyway. Want to do it? Go
working for a vendor.

BTW, this kind of behaviour can't last forever. It's inefficient, and
it's doomed to death, sooner or later.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From noone at here.com  Wed Oct 13 05:20:31 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:20:31 +0100
Subject: Dict lookup - Thankyou
References: <ckgfl4$a9$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ckirsm$7kv$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi,

Thankyou all for your replies, they are of great help.

Malcolm




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Oct 13 13:47:56 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:47:56 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4760.1097598524.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>	<h2Bad.35700$N45.1013317@twister2.libero.it>	<10mlsct69hmtgca@corp.supernews.com>	<slrncmn4q1.54i.apardon@rcpc42.vub.ac.be>
	<mailman.4760.1097598524.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10mqqdho6uojj6a@corp.supernews.com>

Clark C. Evans wrote:

>In general, indentation is great for "outer-structure" that is, 
>delimiting large code blocks.  While delimiter based scoping is good
>for inner structures, small blocks of code.  It should not be an 
>either/or thing, one should properly have the option of using either
>option depending upon which style brings the most clarity.
>  
>

Except that the Python philosophy is that overall, the greatest clarity 
is achieved by having a single obvious way to do things.  In this 
viewpoint, there may be individual cases where delimiter-based scoping 
is clearer, but these are only local maxima; the use of a mixture of 
different styles (indentation and delimiters) will, over the entire 
corpus of Python-language programming, result in significantly less 
total clarity.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Wed Oct 27 04:20:49 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 08:20:49 GMT
Subject: printing HTML or PDF from Python
References: <mailman.5514.1098804827.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<gsydna0gl_xp6uPcRVn-sw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <slrncnumeh.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:14:45 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> Donnal Walter wrote:
>> os.system("copy some.txt LPT1")
>> And as expected, using this function with "some.html" simply prints the 
>> html source. 
> 
> That's of course because the printer knows how to handle "raw" text
> without further help.  As you surmised, anything more complicated
> needs either native support (e.g. Postscript can be sent to a
> Postscript printer naturally), or an application to be launched
> to interpret the file and "draw" it for the printer.

Or a print spooler daemon, which is the normal case on Unix. The user is
supposed to know what formats are supported by a specific spool, and only
send those into the spool. Postscript is the traditional lingua franca, but
I guess many Linux and other systems support PDF today. All this have
nothing to do with what the printer supports.

...
> I don't think you'll find a cross-platform approach to handle
> all your needs, but there are a few options.  The only one
> that I'm familiar with at all would be using ActiveX to
> control IE (for HTML files) and Acrobat Reader (for PDF)
> through the documented interfaces.  From Python it's not

But that's not very cross-platform, is it?
I know of no cross-platform way :-/

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Oct 16 11:52:06 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:52:06 -0500
Subject: undefined variable ?
In-Reply-To: <ckqqlb$l0v$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <ckqqlb$l0v$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <20041016155205.GA7953@unpythonic.net>

On Sat, Oct 16, 2004 at 11:43:08AM +0200, vertigo wrote:
> Hello
> How can i check if variable named var1 exists ?

While it's possible to do that, you'll do better in the long run by
learning to write programs in the Python style, which does not often
perform checks like "does the named variable exist".  For instance,
instead of writing
    def my_max(seq):
        for i in seq:
            if undefined("largest") or i > largest: largest = i
        return largest
you would write
    def my_max(seq):
        largest = None
        for i in seq:
            if largest is None or i > largest: largest = i
or
    def my_max(seq):
        largest = seq[0]
        for i in seq:
            if i > largest: largest = i

It's a little more common to check whether an object has a given
attribute:
    def write_or_send(f, s):
        # "look-before-you-leap" style
        if hasattr(f, "write"): return f.write(s)
        return f.send(s)

And checking whether a key is in a dictionary is frequent:
    if "spam" not in pantry: pantry["spam"] = buy("spam")

Jeff
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From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Wed Oct 13 12:37:42 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:37:42 -0400
Subject: failed delivery messages
In-Reply-To: <1097682390.12092.183.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <1097682390.12092.183.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <416D59D6.4020209@cloudthunder.com>

Cliff Wells wrote:

>                              From: 
>zonk at azet.sk
>                                To: 
>Cliff Wells
><clifford.wells at comcast.net>
>                           Subject: 
>Sprava nebola dorucena (Message was
>not delivered)
>                              Date: 
>13 Oct 2004 15:26:00 -0000  (08:26
>PDT)
>
>Okay, I hate to bitch, but is there any possibility of canceling this
>subscription?  I'm tired of getting a failed delivery message from this
>guy every time I post to the list.
>
>Sigh.  Perhaps I'm just grumpy from lack of sleep (and Unicode).  Or
>maybe it's time to start mangling my email address like others do.
>
>:P
>
>
>  
>
Yeah, I also hate this.  How does one mangle one's email address?


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 18:10:34 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:10:34 -0300
Subject: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <41670711.9040508@po-box.mcgill.ca>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<4166F7C6.7050405@wanadoo.fr> <41670711.9040508@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Message-ID: <864d3709041008151026806fa4@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:30:58 -0400, Brian van den Broek
<bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote:
> So, if anyone is still following the thread and knows about why css
> might work with IE but not FF, I'd love to hear about it!

I'm using Firefox 0.9 (haven't updated to 1.0pr yet), and for me it
works just fine. I wonder if it's really a CSS bug... in my case, it
turned out that I was messing up with the configuration. You don't
change the CSS only -- you have to change the templating code also. I
really don't remember what I did, but after a few attempts I managed
to pute everything together, and the new layout is *much* better (it's
the one with a sidebar to the right, it's really nice).

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 05:14:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:14:44 +0200
Subject: Python Patterns
References: <4161b8b9$0$78753$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl5n6w.na6vm04ggxbtN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4161c4f9$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<mailman.4285.1096940675.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl6bdp.rudxqrkoby1zN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4162ef68$0$568$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<1gl7j0f.1kxkox71j1czu7N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<tyfsm8sb703.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <1gl8dqz.17n0nc7172zh8qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:
   ...
> > Right, good point.  In C++ you can do something closer with the Strategy
> > pattern -- still one level of indirectness, but a consistent set of
> > methods (embodied in the one strategy object) commuted as a whole.
> > Assigning __class__ IS of course more direct, yes;-).
> 
> Isn't Strategy more like rebinding the methods of a class, rather than
> rebinding the .__class__ of an instance ?

<http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?StrategyPattern> has lots of discussion of State
vs Strategy (and no clear conclusion -- discussants disagree deeply on
philosophical grounds).  My viewpoint is that each is about objectifying
behavior -- as is delegating some or all behavior to another object.

Lookups of attributes (including methods) on an instance implicitly
delegate to the __class__ unless the attribute is found directly on the
instance [[lookups of special methods to implement operators &c don't
even look at the instance except in classic classes, but we can simply
focus on ordinary lookups here]].  Switching classes is thus switching a
bundle of attributes (particularly methods) as a whole, and affects only
the specific instance whose class changes, while switching a single
method on a class obviously has finer granularity on one plane (affects
a specific facet only) but HUGE on the other (affects any number of
instances at once).

I don't see anything in Strategy that suggests a desire to change the
behavior of an arbitrarily high number of instances at one stroke,
rather than the behavior of one single, specific instance.  So, I can't
really see the parallel you suggest.  Setting a bound method on an
instance, without altering that instance's class object at all, might be
closer, and as long as we're ignoring [[that part]] the parallel between
the techniques is there -- it's a matter of granularity (do you want to
affect each facet of behavior, or instance behavior as a whole).   The
commonality is in using implicit delegation, rather than explicit
(either via __getattr__ or method-by-method).

Basically, Python gives you more viable strategies than C++, so any
one-to-one mapping between usage in the two languages is doomed from the
start -- there will often be more than one strategy in Python that maps
down to the same strategy in C++.  Personally, I find that (for the
categories of programs I generally write) the meaningful unit of
behavior is rarely a single method (it happens, but it's not typical) --
there are generally _bundles_ (of methods representing subfacets of a
single "behavior") that must stay coupled and cohesive; so, switching
methods individually is not as attractive as switching a set of them
through a single object... and changing __class__ does exactly this for
the largest bundle (thus, ideal for a single-responsibility class... and
shouldn't those be the ones we should _strive_ to design?-).


Alex


From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Sun Oct 24 14:13:55 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 24 Oct 2004 18:13:55 GMT
Subject: how do i change from string to list
References: <99ca2e2f.0410241005.39a4f1db@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncnns2p.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On 24 Oct 2004 11:05:28 -0700, john <miodio67 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have the following 
> 
> s = "spot" 
> 
> which I would like to change to a list

>>> list('spot')          
['s', 'p', 'o', 't']

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Oct 20 12:49:54 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:49:54 -0300
Subject: String changing on the fly
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7A97@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[elie at flashmail.com]

#- My users are using other scripting launguage to write scripts. They
#- are used to write somthing like (keeping it simple)
#- T = 100
#- do_action ('It cost $T dollars')
#- 
#- where the above syntax ('It cost $T dollars') is interperted as ('It
#- cost 100 dollars').

>>> def do_action(s):
	print s
>>> T = 100
>>> do_action('It cost %s dollars' % T)
It cost 100 dollars

Only note that the string is not changed (strings are immutable in Python),
but a new string is created.

.	Facundo
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 11 03:24:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:24:44 +0200
Subject: complex data structure - insert value
References: <e7fe8d9e.0410091444.211313b5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1glgu5p.1yf24t2f01cwvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

spar <spariam at hotmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> foreach $bar_count(@bars) {
>   foreach $el_count(@els) {
>     $var = somefunc($bar_count,$el_count);
>     $data[$bar_count]->{'CC'}->[$el_count] = $var;
>   }
> }

Not quite sure what you mean, but maybe s/thing like...:

data = {}

for bar_count in bars:
    for el_count in els:
        var = somefunc(bar_count, el_count)
        subdict = data.set_default(bar_count, {})
        subdict = subdict.set_default('CC', {})
        subdict[el_count] = var

...?


Alex


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Oct  5 21:51:03 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:51:03 -0400
Subject: Problem with string parsing
In-Reply-To: <mgz8d.666980$Gx4.409156@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
References: <948b993a.0410050638.3a0340ec@posting.google.com>
	<mgz8d.666980$Gx4.409156@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <CuWdnb3aJ90b0v7cRVn-hg@powergate.ca>

wes weston wrote:
> Mike,
>    Note that after the appropriate if:
> 
>  >>> '1_mature_dt=10-May-2002'[len('1_mature_dt='):]
> '10-May-2002'

Though I would guess that the following is closer to
what was actually thought by the OP to be the behaviour of
.lstrip():

def lstripsub(s, sub):
     if s.startswith(sub):
         return s[len(sub):]
     else:
         return s

 >>> s = '1_mature_dt=10-May-2002'
 >>> lstripsub(s, '1_mature_dt=')
'10-May-2002'

-Peter


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sat Oct 23 15:25:21 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:25:21 -0700
Subject: wxIEHTML
In-Reply-To: <5d1dd116.0410230944.3c5319f3@posting.google.com>
References: <20041023002214.29660.00006347@mb-m16.aol.com>
	<mailman.5354.1098523334.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<5d1dd116.0410230944.3c5319f3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1098559521.4059.31.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Sat, 2004-10-23 at 10:44 -0700, tutu wrote:

> maybe something like the following?
> <pre>
> import webbrowser
> EVT_MSHTML_BEFORENAVIGATE2(self, -1, self.OnBeforeNavigate2)
> 
> def OnBeforeNavigate2(self, event):     #IE event
>         url = event.GetText1()
>         webbrowser.open(url)  #open in default browser
>         event.Veto()    #don't open here
> </pre>

Ah, cool.  Thanks!

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From nick at craig-wood.com  Tue Oct 12 05:29:58 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 09:29:58 GMT
Subject: Core dump with increased recursionlimit
Message-ID: <slrncmn6h5.739.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

I've just discovered that my python (Python 2.3.4 from debian package
2.3.4-1 running on debian testing x86 + linux 2.4.26) core dumps when
I set recursionlimit very high and do lots of recursion.

Eg

$ python -c 'import sys; sys.setrecursionlimit(100000)
def f(): return f()
f()'
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

The recursion limit at which it does a core dump rather than a
"RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded" is about 7235 on my
system.  (I binary searched it).  However this number isn't constant!

Other interesting info

$ ulimit -a
core file size        (blocks, -c) 1000000
data seg size         (kbytes, -d) unlimited
file size             (blocks, -f) unlimited
max locked memory     (kbytes, -l) unlimited
max memory size       (kbytes, -m) unlimited
open files                    (-n) 1024
pipe size          (512 bytes, -p) 8
stack size            (kbytes, -s) unlimited
cpu time             (seconds, -t) unlimited
max user processes            (-u) 7168
virtual memory        (kbytes, -v) unlimited

So stack size should be unlimited.

The backtrace looks like this...

#0  0x400301ac in __pthread_alt_trylock () from /lib/libpthread.so.0
#1  0x40114003 in malloc () from /lib/libc.so.6
#2  0x080df577 in _PyObject_GC_Malloc ()
#3  0x080df67d in _PyObject_GC_NewVar ()
#4  0x080fb863 in PyFrame_New ()
#5  0x080ab8e1 in PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords ()
#6  0x080ab6dc in PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords ()
#7  0x080a9b9e in Py_MakePendingCalls ()
#8  0x080ab91d in PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords ()
#9  0x080ab6dc in PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords ()
#10 0x080a9b9e in Py_MakePendingCalls ()
#11 0x080ab91d in PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords ()
#12 0x080ab6dc in PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords ()
#13 0x080a9b9e in Py_MakePendingCalls ()

[snip many similar lines!]

#21713 0x080ab91d in PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords ()
#21714 0x080ab6dc in PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords ()
#21715 0x080a9b9e in Py_MakePendingCalls ()
#21716 0x080aa72c in PyEval_EvalCodeEx ()
#21717 0x080acf29 in PyEval_EvalCode ()
#21718 0x080d90ab in PyRun_FileExFlags ()
#21719 0x080d9c31 in PyRun_SimpleStringFlags ()
#21720 0x08054dc2 in Py_Main ()
#21721 0x080549eb in main ()

I don't have the debugging symbols for this version of python though
so can't provide more detail.

I'm pretty sure this isn't a limit of my linux setup.  I compiled and
ran this C program

#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>

#define MB 256
#define SIZE (MB*1024*1024)

int main(void)
{
    char blob[SIZE];
    memset(blob, 0x55, SIZE);
    printf("blob = %p, %d, %d\n", blob, blob[0], blob[SIZE-1]);
    return 0;
}

Which runs fine and shows I can have 256 MB of stack.  (Also the
python core dump is only 6 MB)

Any ideas?  Problem with my setup? Linux bug? Python bug? Problem
between chair and keyboard?

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From exarkun at divmod.com  Fri Oct 29 19:34:42 2004
From: exarkun at divmod.com (exarkun at divmod.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:34:42 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
In-Reply-To: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041029233442.9171.389384948.divmod.quotient.955@ohm>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:58:47 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:
>I hesitate a bit to post this, but... on the Italian Python NG, somebody
> was asking whether there was any way to convert an integer number x into
> a string which represents it in an arbitrary base N (given a sequence
> with a len of N that gives the digits to use) as "a single expression".
> 
> I haven't found a really general way, much less a clear one, but, the
> best I have so far is...:
> 
> def number_in_base(x, N, digits, maxlen=99):
>     return '-'[x>=0:] + (
>         (x and ''.join([digits[k%N] for i in range(maxlen) 
>                         for k in [abs(x)//N**i] if k>0])[::-1]
>         ) or digits[0])
> 
> Besides the lack of clarity, the obvious defect of this approach is that
> darned 'maxlen' parameter -- but then, since I can have only a 'for',
> not a 'while', in a list comprehension or generator expression, and I
> don't think recursion qualifies as 'a single expression'...:-(

  range(maxlen) can be replaced with range(int(math.log(x) / math.log(N)) + 1).

  Also, and perhaps you are already aware, number_in_base(x, 1, '0') doesn't produce the correct output with the above algorithm, although I believe it will if you switch to using math.log().

  Jp


From listserver at tdw.net  Sat Oct  9 13:43:11 2004
From: listserver at tdw.net (Tim Williams)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:43:11 +0100
Subject: (solved)  smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
References: <mailman.4622.1097283888.5135.python-list@python.org><NxM9d.7377$UP1.1405@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<20041009095523.EDA7.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <017601c4ae27$72317d20$ccbefea9@twilliams>

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Josiah Carlson" <jcarlson at uci.edu>
>
>In fact, if I were to make one suggestion to Tim, it
>would be to switch from his custom version of smtplib to the version in
>CVS, then do anything to smtplib.stderr that he wants.

Thanks,   I will give that a go now :-)

Will each thread's smtplib.stderr be isolated from instances(?)   in other
threads?






From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Thu Oct 28 18:37:19 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:37:19 +1000 (EST)
Subject: (python), uid 80: exited on signal 11
In-Reply-To: <CEB19254-28FA-11D9-9CA1-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>
References: <CEB19254-28FA-11D9-9CA1-000A957911BC@ksenia.nl>
Message-ID: <20041029083339.B66075@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Ksenia Marasanova wrote:

> But I am just curious what that signal 11 means.

Near as I can figure (on FreeBSD 4.8), signal 11 is SEGV (segment
violation).

Did you test the scripts outside the Apache environment?  On the face of
your description, I'd have to say that one of the modules you've added to
the scripts has a build problem of one sort or another...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen ACT 2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia


From neil.benn at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 14:51:24 2004
From: neil.benn at gmail.com (Neil Benn)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 11:51:24 -0700
Subject: GUI development: Java vs. Python (was: Calling (C)Python code
	from Java: Is it JPype?)
References: <cjeem1$5h9$1@newshispeed.ch> <cjg70t$gun$1@newshispeed.ch>
	<du7wtybod4b.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<mailman.4178.1096637558.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<sis032-lej.ln1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <e3d042c8.0410021051.26585d0e@posting.google.com>

claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<sis032-lej.ln1 at lairds.us>...
> In article <mailman.4178.1096637558.5135.python-list at python.org>,
> Neil Benn  <benn at cenix-bioscience.com> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> >          As I remember, the OP said that he was going to use Java - the 
> >GUI toolkit for that is very nice and extremely portable (no cross 
> >platform niggling little issues 'the window doesn't behave that way on 
> >linux - well it does on windows!!') - the reason for this - Java GUI 
> >(Swing ignore AWT for the point of this - AWT has the same problems as 
> >other native GUI toolkits) is _not_ native.  Although I must agree that 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			

Hello,
 
       Comments embedded beneath - BTW please use Neil, Mr Benn is the
name of cartoon in Britain and I get the piss taken out of me for
it!!!!!!

> Mr. Benn, you're saying something important here, but something
> which merits, at least, qualification.  Certainly the Java com-
> munity has given considerable attention to the "write once, run
> everywhere" goal.  My own experience has been that their success
> in regard to GUIs is mixed, at best.

<snip>

   Err, well with Swing - I experienced very few cross platform issues
when using lightweight components - as soon as I introduce heavyweight
components into the equation - yes these issues start appearing.  I
only use AWT when programming Personal Java/Profile (that API doesn;t
include Swing) and it's always a pain moving from one platform to
another.  This is just a difference of opinion here and will always be
subjective.

> 
> Maybe it would help to clarify a bit--*which* "GUI toolkit" do
> you have in mind?  I *think* you're talking about Swing--is that
> right?
> 
<snip>

Quote from original e-mail - 'Java GUI (Swing ignore AWT for the point
of this'

Yes - swing, although I did embed that bit in brackets

> My conclusion:  while Java undeniably aspires to be portable in
> its GUI, those with a stake in the outcome need to specify clearly
> their requirements.  Java does *not* currently provide perfect
> portability.

I agree there isn't 'perfect portability' (partly because its
difficult to define perfect!!)  but it is good - take a look at
something like jedit - it works across all platforms I've tried it on
(OSX, OS9, Windows, Solaris, Linux).  For a quick test - get the look
and feel option in most java programs and flick about between the
different models - I think if performs commendably - much better than
the 'wrapper over native' type of GUI toolkits.

  As a quick aside - does anyone know of a cross-language non native
GUI toolkit apart from Mozilla?

Cheers,

Neil


From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Oct 15 21:06:15 2004
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:06:15 -0500
Subject: how to re-import changed code?
References: <mailman.5022.1097870440.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<10n0banri5f2bda@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <10n0t0blpcge209@news.supernews.com>


"Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message 
news:10n0banri5f2bda at corp.supernews.com...
> Wolfgang.Stoecher at profactor.at wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>another beginner's question:
>>when I import a module, change the corresponding textfile and try to 
>>import the same module again, it looks like the internal code does not 
>>change (the source-line in an error-message is up to date, however!). Also 
>>del module before import and deleting the .pyc file do not help! How to 
>>realize a fast edit-try-cycle? (btw: I am using python 2.2 under windows)
>>
>
> What you're looking for is the reload() function.
>
> Normally, an imported module is cached by the interpreter, and subsequent 
> imports go straight to the cache without checking whether the file has 
> changed or not.  If you reload(), that specifically clears the cache and 
> imports from the (current) disk file again.

That works, but with a very important caveat: reload() does not
change anything in the module that's currently being referred to.
This can lead to very subtle bugs, and all IDE/debugger combinations
don't handle it properly.

What I do is keep a command line open under Windows, and
I create a .cmd file with a very short name. It takes about three
keystrokes to run the test (alt-tab, t, return), and one keystroke
to get back to the IDE (alt-tab). This reloads my unit test suite
and runs it.

John Roth


>
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International
> 



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sat Oct  9 13:28:21 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 10:28:21 -0700
Subject: (solved)  smtplib,  capturing output from set_debuglevel ??
In-Reply-To: <NxM9d.7377$UP1.1405@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.4622.1097283888.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<NxM9d.7377$UP1.1405@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20041009095523.EDA7.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Ahh, that would explain why my examples replaced
> smtplib.stderr while others replaced sys.stdout.  I'm
> working out of a CVS build.

If I were in a situation where I cared about output, I'd be using the
version from CVS.  In fact, if I were to make one suggestion to Tim, it
would be to switch from his custom version of smtplib to the version in
CVS, then do anything to smtplib.stderr that he wants.  If/when he
eventually upgrades to 2.4, he then doesn't even need to worry about his
copy of CVS smtplib, he gets that by default.


> In a cursory look of your code I though you were implementing
> a sort of thread local storage.  Looking at it again I don't
> see how
> 
>          thread = threading.currentThread().getName()
>          try:
>              self.lock.acquire()
>              if thread in self.ios:
>                  self.ios[thread].write(data)
>              else:
>                  t = self.ios[thread] = StringIO()
>                  t.write(data)
>          finally:
>              self.lock.release()
> 
> isn't using thread local storage in
>     self.ios[threading.currentThread().getName()]

It is a kind of per-thread storage, but you can get at the data any time
from any thread (via multi_thread_output.get_ready() ). From what I
understand of generic Python thread local storage gained from the
docstring in CVS for the Python implementation here:
   <http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/python/python/dist/src/Lib/_threading_local.py?rev=1.3&view=markup>

...other threads cannot access Python standard thread local storage.


 - Josiah



From donnal at donnal.net  Sun Oct 31 14:00:46 2004
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:00:46 -0600
Subject: Open Source License Question
In-Reply-To: <clv204$nh8$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <clrke5$a3n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0410282309470.21849-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>	<mailman.5683.1099079698.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clv204$nh8$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <cm3cou$b16$1@sea.gmane.org>

Robert Kern wrote:
> Donnal Walter wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
>> 2. Am I right in thinking that the license for FW will have little or 
>> no legal bearing on the licenses contributors choose for CApps?
> 
> 
> If the license you use for the framework is strong copylefted (e.g. GPL) 
> as opposed to weak copylefted (e.g. LGPL), then the license *will* have 
> a strong bearing on the license used for contributed apps.
> 

This is not an exact analogy, but if Python were licensed under GPL (or 
OSL), would *all* programs written *in* Python need to have the same 
license? (My intuition says no, but I would not be totally surprised to 
find that my intuition is wrong.)

Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital




From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  5 14:11:06 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:11:06 GMT
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <1gl6qcq.kcu4qi1qojaksN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6e9j.1cn88p21wfi6s0N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<aJt8d.3299$M05.285@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1gl6qcq.kcu4qi1qojaksN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <_sB8d.3545$M05.1351@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Sure, there _are_ possible workarounds, as I've said.  I do believe it
> might be nice, though, if a standard way existed (e.g. a decorator) to
> express "the following function/method need not keep tracebacks but
> rather should optimize tail calls", so that each framework or whatever
> need not reinvent it.

Mmm, I read your reply to mean you thought such a bytecode
hack might some day be written, not that that it does exist.
On rereading I see you did not say that.

>> Only worse
>>because in a workspace there might not be an independent
>>source for a function I hacked together months ago
>>that I end up using often.
> 
> 
> Part of a workspace's functionality had better be that to emit sources
> (for some or all of the stuff in the workspace) out to some text file,
> which can later be loaded into some other workspace (on a new machine,
> or after a version upgrade, etc).

By "independent source" I meant to distinguish between
a external package that I installed and code the I wrote myself.
My thought, unbacked by practical experience, is that
on upgrades I would need to find all my own personalized
functions, export them, and import them into the new system.

If it's an external package that's easy.  I installed it
from source in the first place.  For my own code there isn't
such a source.  Do the environments let me find all
my personal modifications to the default?  If I did something
like modify integer so int + string automatically coerces
string into in, would it also export those system level
modifications?



> Since at any time you can fire up an
> editor on 'function so and so' (and I'm sure this holds for both APL and
> Smalltalk), clearly the workspace must keep the sources, or be able to
> reconstruct them rapidly on demand if what it does keep is some sort of
> AST or whatever; dumping the sources out to a textfile and reloading
> them from there thus shouldn't be too hard (and some selectivity, e.g.
> "do you also want the dependencies or not" &c, should also be easy).

While related to my statement, that's not what I was hoping
to discuss.  Perhaps a restatement to make things clearer?

Upgrading Python versions is tedious, but at least it's
easy to find all my modifications to the install.  They
can be found in files and subdirectories in the PYTHONPATH.
None of my changes affect the "system" part of Python.
I don't stick code in the top-level of
/usr/local/lib/python2.3 nor do I write code that changes
the behavior of core objects.  I don't add 'sqrt' as a
method to numbers, nor let + work between numbers and
strings.

Python does not support the latter behavior, although
Ruby does.  In Ruby's case it's implemented by starting
with the pristine image then making changes, represented
as files.

The workspace approach does something different, in
my mind.  There is no concise set of deltas to know
how to go from the pristine image to the customized
one.  So if I did upgrade the system behavior, and
I get the feel that that's not unusual, then how does
the workspace figure out how to produce source that
can be passed to a new, pristine workspace and get
my personal customizations working again?

To my understanding it either saves the full image,
or it saves code you've selected.  How does it help
identifing all of the code that's relevant for this
sort of upgrade?

Though I mean that hypothetically.  I'm almost never
customize my environment.  My .cshrc defines three
aliases, I've not customized my .emacs, etc.

>>Methods of builtin types can be changed in Ruby.  To
> 
> 
> True, as I also pointed out later.

That must have been after I went to bed.  ;)

>>Personally I think the ability to do this is a horror,
>>precisely because it leads to the horrors you talk about.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't go so far as to call it a horror.  I do consider it an excess
> of power/dynamism, which I'd rather not have in a language intended for
> production use.

I'm having a difficult time understanding when you would
use the word horror vs. when not.  Wouldn't it be okay to
have " 4 + '5' " produce 9 in a language not intended for
production use?  It seems there is a sensitive threshold
between your 'good language' and one with 'horror'.  After
all my language "Al2O3", which is Ruby plus that dozen
or so line patch for string coercion, seems to fit into
your horror category.

Ahh, but then you're one who used 'horror' when describing
the "print >>" syntax so "horror", "production use", and
"good language" are not independent terms.  ;)

Ruby has a way to freeze objects, so they cannot be changed.
In my view of things I would have had the system objects
frozen so that they cannot be changed, so that like in
Python system class behavior only 'modifiable' through
subclassing.

That would have left the power/dynamism available, but in
such a way as to moderate its impact.

>>And I think I pointed it out to you in c.l.py 3 or 4
>>years ago ;)
> 
> 
> Google Groups to the rescue...: I do see a post from you mentioning the
> idea, in late 2000, but it is in response to Raymond Hettinger, not to
> me;

Sadly my unassisted memory grows rusted.  I was confusing
that with another part of the same thread where I pointed out
to you

 >>   proxy = Proxy(...)
 >>   sys.modules[module_name] = proxy
 >>
 >> In other words, what you import doesn't need to be a module.
 >> It can be a class instance instead - or any other data type.

and you replied
 > Now THAT is interesting!  I would never have guessed that the
 > items in sys.modules need not be module objects.  Is this


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Oct 30 16:02:56 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:02:56 +0200
Subject: names of parameters as string
References: <3cccb1d8.0410280723.50ff8679@posting.google.com><41811f1f$0$33063$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com><3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com><m31xfh8uhy.fsf@peds-pc311.bsd.uchicago.edu><mailman.5663.1099065452.5135.python-list@python.org><291020042102228624%JBrouwersAtProphICyDotCom@no.spam.net>
	<1CC54D90-2A40-11D9-A5B8-0003939C968C@unito.it>
	<mailman.5706.1099127497.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clvt7v$qnb$02$1@news.t-online.com> <U7Sgd.558$931.555@lakeread01>
Message-ID: <cm0s05$j6d$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Steve Holden wrote:

> [No] guarantees to work on any specific implementation.

What do you mean - the locals() analogue to 

globals()[name] = value  

or my exec workaround?

def somefunc():
    value = as_you_like_it
    exec "%s = value" % name

inquisitively, far from Spain
Peter



From finite.automaton at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 16:22:13 2004
From: finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 13:22:13 -0700
Subject: A newbie in more need....
References: <9c3edc58.0409302034.54f93dd2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4b39d922.0410011222.46df841b@posting.google.com>

The fumanchu code is indeed the excellent way to do what is asked, but
it really looks like instances would be more appropriate for your
particular application!  Why do you want a bunch of identical classes
that differ in name only?

Why not:

class Bug(object):
  def __init__(self, gender='m', size=0, skill=0):
    self.gender = gender
    self.size = size
    self.skill = skill

# A list of bugs
bugs = [Bug() for i in xrange(N)]

# or, if you insist on cluttering your namespace,
for i in xrange(N):
  globals()['bug%s' % i] = Bug()



chrispatton at gmail.com (Chris Patton) wrote in message news:<9c3edc58.0409302034.54f93dd2 at posting.google.com>...
> I am writing a program that writes a number of classes, which are all
> fundementally the same thing. The only thing that is different is the
> names. Therefore, I need to write a bunch of classes in the quickest
> time I can. Here's what I was thinking of:
> 
> num = 1
> while num < 20:
>       exec 'class bug'+num+':'
>       exec '      gender = "m"'
>       exec '      size = 0'
>       exec '      skill = 0'
> 
> Obviously, the "exec" statement severley slows the time it takes to
> write these classes. I need a new method! If possible I would like to
> avoid the use of the "exec" statement alltogether.
> 
>            -- Thanks for any help!!


From square690410 at yahoo.com.tw  Fri Oct 15 04:04:47 2004
From: square690410 at yahoo.com.tw (Leon)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:04:47 +0800
Subject: How to modify or control ip header (OSI Layer three)
Message-ID: <cko0b4$dp$1@netnews.hinet.net>

as title....  ^^

Who know web appliction of the stress testing write in python....(can do 
authentication?Bssl?Bauthorization?Bserver/client response time?H

Please help me
square690410 at yahoo.com.tw 




From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Sun Oct 31 16:30:42 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:30:42 +0100
Subject: ANN: Frog 1.0 released (python 'blog' application)
Message-ID: <41855982$0$65124$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

I've just uploaded the Frog 1.0 release.

Frog is a blog (web log) system written in 100% Python.
It is a web application written for Snakelets.
It outputs XHTML, is fully unicode compatible, small,
and doesn't require a database.

You can read about it and download it here:
http://snakelets.sourceforge.net/frog/  (about 55 Kb)

If you don't want to install it yet, you can first try it out here:
http://www.razorvine.net/snake/frog/
(the passwords of each user is the same as the username,
test1/test1 etc. You have to log in to be able to post articles)


If you encounter bugs or problems, or want to give some
feedback, please let me know.


Enjoy,
--Irmen de Jong.


From pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct 25 05:59:08 2004
From: pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:59:08 +0100
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5357.1098540970.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jtidnZlHj6049OfcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5359.1098542166.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2-idnfYPRs9d8-fcRVn-oA@powergate.ca>
	<864d37090410230912795a565e@mail.gmail.com>
	<loom.20041023T200244-62@post.gmane.org>
	<mailman.5365.1098555575.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u654zrudv.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com> writes:

> Oh, I also wanted to mention that I *really* liked the idea on python-dev that
> ConfigObject might be configurable in the same way as OptionParser:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-October/049597.html
>
> I know a lot of the time I want to allow options to be specified in both the
> configuration file and at the command line.

I agree - I would love something like this.

On another note, I'm surprised that ZConfig hasn't been mentioned in
the discussion (that I have seen). I'm ambivalent about ZConfig in
general, but it certainly seems to warrant a mention...

Paul.
-- 
"Bother," said the Borg, "We've assimilated Pooh."


From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct 29 00:56:03 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 04:56:03 GMT
Subject: Looking for more Cookbook contributors
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5641.1099011631.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <0kavn019dk6vf7ini32t3muc9e6r9j7t1n@4ax.com><mailman.5575.1098897039.5135.python-list@python.org>	<1gmdbxx.o57i68hu9achN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5641.1099011631.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <D3kgd.10428$KJ6.3501@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> I am surprised.  Maybe some mail systems have given up on bounces, perhaps 
> since they validate the good addresses by not bouncing.

My machine is one.  Before I turned on filtering I was getting ...
12,000 spams a day sent to made up addresses @ my domain.  (They were
all forwarded to me).  I decided to /dev/null them instead of bouncing
in part to prevent the validation and in part because the 'from'
addresses were often forged, so my bounce mail would either end up in
some Random J. Blow's box or in turn get bounced back to me.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 05:23:35 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:23:35 +0200
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com>
	<1gmeuqj.1p0mkh41y1zvfcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<just-C3A00C.09382029102004@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1gmf0u0.dum94e1ihaq2pN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Just <just at xs4all.nl> wrote:
   ...
> > enhancements, and ctypes would be a huge enhancement to Python's stdlib.
> 
> In general, Guido is very reluctant to accept thing which make is easy
> to cause segfaults. I predict you'll have a very hard time convincing

Good point -- and a very sound stance by Guido, of course.


Alex


From bingham at cenix-bioscience.com  Tue Oct 19 06:47:05 2004
From: bingham at cenix-bioscience.com (Aaron Bingham)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:47:05 +0200
Subject: execvp() on Solaris
In-Reply-To: <f197302b.0410190230.5f17d652@posting.google.com>
References: <f197302b.0410180514.4c38809b@posting.google.com>	<mailman.5151.1098148373.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<f197302b.0410190230.5f17d652@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4174F0A9.7030702@cenix-bioscience.com>

mikeSpindler wrote:

>You might not be aware - os.system calls execvp.  Thus, when I call
>os.system I'm getting execvp errors when I run on Solaris.  Thank you
>for the responses so far.  I'd love to hear how to resolve the known
>issue of Python not using the system's execvp.  THANK YOU!
>  
>
What are the exact error messages you are seeing?  Without them it is 
impossible to diagnose your problem.

Aaron



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 10:57:43 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:57:43 +0200
Subject: interface boilerplate
References: <mailman.5090.1098044946.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glushu.4o1jab1gxj2czN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5114.1098109115.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glv2i1.11ehuy31n73vnN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

> >>>>> "Alex" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>     Alex> To make a function just like another but with a different
>     Alex> name:
> 
>     Alex> def changed_name_function(f, newname): import new return
>     Alex> new.function(f.func_code, f.func_globals, newname,
>     Alex> f.func_defaults, f.func_closure)
> 
>     Alex> I believe this should work in 2.2 as well (not tested).
> 
> I tested this - the signature of new.function in 2.2 is a bit
> different
> 
> function(...)
>     Create a function object from (CODE, GLOBALS, [NAME [, ARGDEFS]]).
> 
> so it doesn't take the 5 arg version posted.  

Ah, it didn't take a closure.  Could be quite a problem...

> I am having a little trouble figuring out how to handle the call
> signature for 2.2.  I tried this modification (matplotlib._python23 is
> a flag that returns True iff python version >=2.3
> 
> 
> def changed_name_function(f, newname):
>     import new
>     if matplotlib._python23:
>         newf =  new.function(f.func_code, f.func_globals, newname,
>                              f.func_defaults, f.func_closure)
>     else:
>         if f.func_defaults is None:
>             argdefs = ()
>         else:
>             argdefs = f.func_defaults
>         newf =  new.function(f.func_code, f.func_globals, newname,
>                              argdefs)
> 
>     newf.__doc__ = f.__doc__
>     return newf
> 
> I added the None check on f.func_defaults because I was getting the
> error
> 
>   TypeError: function() argument 4 must be tuple, not None
> 
> But this does not appear to be right either because I get a segfault
> :-(  Note that the suggestion works as advertised for python2.3.
> 
> Any ideas?

Supporting old versions is never going to be easy -- I don't even have a
2.2 installation around to do such tests, any more.  Perhaps for
versions < 2.3 you could simply degrade gracefully to perform no
renaming (and for versions >= 2.4 do the renaming the right way, by
assigning to f.func_name and returning f)... those who choose to stick
with 2.2 will just have to account that as one of the many limitations
and slow-downs their choice buys them...


Alex


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Mon Oct 25 10:39:01 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:39:01 +0200
Subject: python file versioning
References: <940ee3e8.0410250506.1d679430@posting.google.com>
	<cliv0l$ah6$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.5425.1098714195.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <clj363$acl$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> No, that's completely incorrect.
> 
>   File "/tmp/diez.py", line 4
>       from __future__ import nifty_feature
> SyntaxError: from __future__ imports must occur at the beginning of the
> file

Oops - I didn't know that. But it makes sense - as it possibly affects
parsing behaviour it has to be like that.

But _completely_ is a bit strong - other version-dependend code can be
written like that, and if you encapsulate the version depenend code in
modules, you can still import them like this:


file mod_22:
from __future__ import nifty_feature
import bar

file mod_23:
import bar


app.py:

import sys

if sys.version_info[:2] == (2,2):
    import mod_22 as mod
else:
    import mod_23 as mod


So I think I showed the OP a way to deal with version-dependencies.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From richie at entrian.com  Fri Oct 15 05:37:32 2004
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:37:32 +0100
Subject: Artifical Life - a job for someone else
In-Reply-To: <ab790628.0410150048.21d0bdf6@posting.google.com>
References: <6f402501.0410120655.705e2ad0@posting.google.com>
	<416C68C9.F3271A1C@alcyone.com>
	<6f402501.0410141410.4dff0100@posting.google.com>
	<ab790628.0410150048.21d0bdf6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <rd6vm09olc9kqnvlipak9ec7jubavk0djt@4ax.com>


[Simon]
> > 	http://flangy.com/dev/python/curses/
> 
> This link appears to be broken.  Does anyone have an alternative?

It works for me when I cut'n'paste it into my browser, but fails when I
double-click it.  It's preceded by a hard tab - that's probably what's
confusing my MUA.  Maybe yours has the same problem?

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com



From liquid at kuht.it  Sun Oct 10 03:38:27 2004
From: liquid at kuht.it (GMTaglia)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 07:38:27 GMT
Subject: The IDE question
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>

dataangel wrote:

> DrPython seems to be just what I'm looking for -- after a few bugs are
> fixed and the open file window is improved. I can't open files on
> computers on my local network because there's no mechanism to do that, I
> can't type in my own path (doesn't respond to me typing it in and
> hitting enter), and shortcuts to folders don't show up. I also managed
> to find a bug that consistenly makes my system hang :P
> 
> I'm e-mailing them the bugs, but overall the best IDE I've tried so far :D

Have a better look to eric3 http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html

tabs
http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/images/eric3-screen-1.png

debugger
http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/images/eric3-screen-2.png

and much more
http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3-screenshots.html

cheers
GMTaglia


From HansWL at msn.com  Mon Oct  4 13:30:21 2004
From: HansWL at msn.com (HansWL)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 10:30:21 -0700
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>	<cjj9sd$hg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>	<mailman.4177.1096637180.5135.python-list@python.org>	<691232ce.0410030304.2f84c04b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4236.1096861162.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <691232ce.0410040930.2ed080d9@posting.google.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.4236.1096861162.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> >>>>> "HansWL" == HansWL  <HansWL at msn.com> writes:
> 
>     HansWL> I tried matplotlib 0.63 with Python 2.3.4 on an old Win98
>     HansWL> machine (500 MHz, 128 MB RAM) and found that I had to wait
>     HansWL> for at least 35 seconds before even the simplest demo plot
>     HansWL> appeared. Is this expected?
> 
> No it is not expected.  My guess is that something may be wrong with
> your configuration.  

Very likely, but I do not know what.

> While I don't have anything as clunky as your
> machine to test on <wink>, I do have python 2.3.4 with the same
> matplotlib on a 700MHz win98 box with 512 MB RAM.  On that machine,
> the standard simple plot (eg
> http://matplotlib.sf.net/examples/simple_plot.py) takes about 2s to
> launch.  Although your machine is a bit slower and has a good bit less
> memory, it's in the same ball park, and my test run is 15 times faster
> than yours.  I'm don't think the difference in RAM is the cause of the
> difference in performance, because matplotlib doesn't use anywhere
> near the amount of RAM you have on your system to make a simple plot.

The machine is old, but should able to deal with this. Actually,
changing the simple sine plot from 100 to 1000 points made no
difference in launch time (~ 35 s).

> Try saving`q the simple plot script linked above to your desktop and
> running it by double clicking on it.  Does that help?  If so, you may
> have an IDE conflict, as described on
> http://matplotlib.sf.net/faq.html#FREEZE .  Another common source of
> troubles is an incompatible Numeric / numarray setting - see
> http://matplotlib.sf.net/faq.html#SLOW .  

I was not using an IDE. Typing in commands from the DOS box gave me
the same result. I have both Numeric 23.1 and numarray 1.1 installed,
but switching between them made no difference.

> A third possibility is that
> your system is compromised by a virus or is running so many programs
> in the background (system tray) that it is out of RAM or some other
> resource.

That's not very likely. Norton Anti-virus is always on, and its virus
definition is up to date, and weekly checking is performed, no virus
was ever found. And I was not runing many programs. Actually, I
restarted Windows to run matplotlib to see if there is any difference.
None, so is getting rid of the few little programs in the system tray.
Most importantly, no other programs, including MATLAB 6.5, is behaving
this way. Of course, I am not implying that there is something wrong
with matplotlib, knowing that the Hubble people are using it to plot
large data sets. Maybe I have too much junk on my machine, and one of
them did not like matplotlib.

Maybe I should just install matplotlib on a differrent machine.

Thank you for your response.


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Oct 28 07:18:07 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:18:07 +0200
Subject: Directly calling threaded class instance methods and attributes
References: <4d79c4d9.0410280228.53f9a328@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <clqkg7$cu1$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Matthew Bell wrote:

> import threading
> from time import sleep
> 
> class SimpleThread(threading.Thread):
> def?__init__(self):
> self.total?=?0
> threading.Thread.__init__(self)
> 
> def?add(self,?number):
> self.total?+=?number
> 
> def?run(self):
> while(True):
> #?In?reality,?there'd?be?much?more?here
> sleep(1)
> 
> adder = SimpleThread()
> adder.start()
> for i in range(20):
> adder.add(1)
> print?adder.total
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> This example code works.??Well,?it?does?for?me,?anyway?:-)
> 
> My question is simply, can anyone see any issues with calling methods
> and/or attributes of a threaded class instance like this???It?looks?ok
> to me but, as the docs never seem to mention using threads like this,
> I'm wondering if I've missed something important.??If?it?helps,?I

I know _very_ little about threads, so forgive me if my conclusion that you
know even less is wrong. From what I see in your example you do not have
any data that is shared by multiple threads - total just happens to be
stored in a SimpleThread object but is never accessed by it.

I have tried to desimplify your code a bit

import time
from time import sleep
import threading


class SimpleThread(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self):
        self.total = 0
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
    
    def add(self, number):
        total = self.total
        sleep(.3)
        self.total = total + number
    
    def run(self):
        for i in range(10):
            sleep(.1)
            self.add(1)

adder = SimpleThread()
adder.start()
for i in range(10):
    adder.add(1)
adder.join()
print "total:", adder.total

and here's the output:

$ python testthread.py
total: 12
$

I don't know whether 

self.total += number

is atomic, but even if it were, I wouldn't rely on it. 
Conclusion: stick with queues, or wait for an expert's advice - or both :-)

Peter



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Oct  1 13:32:45 2004
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:32:45 -0400
Subject: __author__
In-Reply-To: <PMadnSzsW4mcEMDcRVn-qA@powergate.ca>
References: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>	<VtydnQODWZ6x78DcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>	<10lqsl4ma3pq33@corp.supernews.com>
	<PMadnSzsW4mcEMDcRVn-qA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <415D94BD.20109@rogers.com>

Peter L Hansen wrote:

> Jeffrey Froman wrote:
>
>> Peter L Hansen wrote:
>>
>>> they will never actually be used (except for __version__)
>>
>>
>> So what uses __version__ ?
>
>
> Very many third party packages I have installed.  It's
> not that it is *consumed* by anything, but that it seems to
> be a very widely used convention.
>
> A quick scan shows it is present in:

...

> - Numeric
> - OpenGL

And the plan is that newer versions of PyOpenGL are going to be using 
Numeric's __version__ to decide what stub-dlls to load (or at least, to 
complain if the version doesn't match what PyOpenGL was compiled 
against).  Generally speaking, the purpose of the meta-data is to have a 
run-time queryable mechanism to determine information about the 
package.  Author isn't likely to be that interesting at run-time (save 
for very specialised email-a-bug-report type stuff), but version allows 
you to imply capabilities for the package.

Oh, IIRC, pydoc treats those __names__ as special and creates a separate 
section for them (then they are duplicated in the "data" section IIRC).

Have fun,
Mike

________________________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://www.vrplumber.com
  http://blog.vrplumber.com



From sean.berry2 at cox.net  Wed Oct 27 21:10:38 2004
From: sean.berry2 at cox.net (news.west.cox.net)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:10:38 -0700
Subject: Can not get urllib.urlopen to work
References: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
	<lnUfd.78980$hj.33310@fed1read07> <41802c3d$1@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <5GXfd.172837$a85.6965@fed1read04>

> Au contraire, monsieur...  there is no reason I can't set the referrer
> header (using httplib).
>

I stand corrected.





From kotee at elte.hu  Mon Oct 18 04:18:43 2004
From: kotee at elte.hu (Szucs Szabolcs Laszlo)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:18:43 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: py2exe with opengl
Message-ID: <ckvu93$66s$1@news.caesar.elte.hu>

Hello,

I do `python setup.py py2exe --exclude=OpenGL --includes=Tkinter'.
It runs, OK. No error messages. I copy the whole
OpenGL dir. next to the .exe file.

When I run the .exe, it don't find the OpenGL module. Why?

THX


-- 
Szucs Szabolcs Laszlo
(36 30) 228 42 40

szseaft.elte, kotee


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct  6 04:49:50 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 04:49:50 -0400
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>
	<6db3f637.0410052100.31bbe86f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <YoO8d.4762$gk.1769@okepread01>

P.M. wrote:

> Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044 at news.indigo.ie>...
> 
>>I agree that it could potentially be a serious hindrance for cpython if 
>>"multiple core" CPUs become commonplace. This is in contrast to jython 
>>and ironpython, both of which support multiple-cpu parallelism.
>>
>>Although I completely accept the usual arguments offered in defense of 
>>the GIL, i.e. that it isn't a problem in the great majority of use 
>>cases, I think that position will become more difficult to defend as 
>>desktop CPUs sprout more and more execution pipelines.
> 
The GIL has been a problem to me (probably a "fairly typical" Python 
user) precisely once, when I tried to run a lengthy database process on 
my brand-new H-P desktop-replacement laptop. The task seemed to be 
running a little slower than I would have expected from the quoted clock 
speed, so I opened up the Windows task manager and lo and behold, the 
performance monitor was showing two CPUs, one hitting the stop at 100% 
and the other basically idle.

Until that time I hadn't realized that the laptop was built on a 
multi-core processor. Fortunately the task was easily partitioned into 
two independent processes, each dealing with a separate set of database 
rows, so the run completed well under the necessary 24 hours.
> 
> I wonder if Python could be changed to use thread local storage?  That
> might allow for multiple interpreter instances without the GIL (I've
> never looked at the actual code so I'm just hypothesizing).  I took a
> quick look at Lua today and it has no problems with creating multiple
> instances of the interpreter, so it definately is a solvable problem.

Thread synchronization through a common namespace would likely be the 
problem. The last time this was discussed on c.l.py someone who knows 
far more than I about the interpreter's structure (Tim Peters, unless I 
mistake my guess) opined that removing the GIL from CPython was far from 
being a simple undertaking. Whether that's changed since I dunno.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 15 11:29:11 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:29:11 +0200
Subject: Problem with logging module
References: <78406811.0410130851.5cf73a75@posting.google.com>
	<ckjpbd$o0b$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<78406811.0410140401.4d466185@posting.google.com>
	<cklqac$3il$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<78406811.0410150537.5173afd0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckoqcc$gp0$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Steve Erickson wrote:

> Thanks a bunch for your patience and explanations.  It would be nice
> if there was a method of checking the logger or handler for an
> instance of it:
> 
> logger = logging.getLogger(name)
> if not logger.handler(dir + '/' + name + '.log'):
>     logger.propagate = False
>     handler = logging.FileHandler(dir + '/' + name + '.log')
>     logger.addHandler(handler)

There is the (unfortunately undocumented) property "handlers" on a Logger
insnstance that you can use:

if not fname in [h.stream.name for h in logger.handlers]:
    ...



-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net  Sun Oct 31 08:58:01 2004
From: reinhold-birkenfeld-nospam at wolke7.net (Reinhold Birkenfeld)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:58:01 +0100
Subject: List problem
In-Reply-To: <6Mydnc7kdcWdcRncRVn-rA@powergate.ca>
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.5668.1099072329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<v2m9o0d7d1v3h4doumfkmb4djk41u0gb9c@4ax.com>
	<1gmiyon.jvyq1w1ob9r59N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2uk7slF2am8o4U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<6Mydnc7kdcWdcRncRVn-rA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <2uk9b9F29imuhU1@uni-berlin.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> [:] on the left side of the assignment basically causes
> "slice assignment" to the whole list, modifying it in-place
> instead of creating a new list.

*bang*

Reinhold

What you just heard was my hand hitting my head...

-- 
[Windows ist wie] die Bahn: Man muss sich um nichts kuemmern, zahlt fuer
jede Kleinigkeit einen Aufpreis, der Service ist mies, Fremde koennen
jederzeit einsteigen, es ist unflexibel und zu allen anderen Verkehrs-
mitteln inkompatibel.               -- Florian Diesch in dcoulm


From eric_bellard_nospam at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 11:38:33 2004
From: eric_bellard_nospam at yahoo.com (eric_bellard)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 08:38:33 -0700
Subject: Using JYTHON inside ANT : access os module -> "ImportError: no
	module named javaos"
Message-ID: <78c5e744.0410050738.a333efe@posting.google.com>

Using JYTHO inside ANT : access os module

Hi,

I like to use JYTHON inside ANT task.

I'm using:
- WSAD 5.1.1
- jython.jar inside WTE5.1
- bsf.jar inside WTE5.1

I've referenced jython.jar and bsf.jar into the ant classpath
(Windows>Preferences>Ant>Runtime>Classpath)

Here's a working script:

<project name="helloWorld" default="jython-hello-world" basedir=".">

	<property name="test.path.dir" location="D:/tmp/jyton"/>
	<target name="jython-hello-world">
		<script language="jython"> 
			<![CDATA[
import sys


print 'Hello Jytho World'
path = project.getProperty("test.path.dir")
print path
			
			]]> 
		</script>		
	</target>
</project>


The problem is when I want to access to the ptyhon 'os' module.
The following target don't work:
	<target name="jython-hello-world2">
		<script language="jython"> 
			<![CDATA[
import sys, os


print 'Hello Jytho World'
path = project.getProperty("test.path.dir")
print path
os.listdir(path)			
			]]> 
		</script>		
	</target>


The returned error is:

jython-hello-world:
      [script] Hello Jytho World
      [script] D:\tmp\jyton
      [script] BUILD FAILED:
file:D:/cc_views/dinb_comp_java_jraf_v2_0_act_E391485/dinb_comp_java_jraf/livraison/jython/build.xml:63:
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<string>", line 8, in ?
ImportError: no module named javaos


Does someone has any clue?

Thanks by advance.

Eric


From indigo at bitglue.com  Thu Oct  7 12:35:22 2004
From: indigo at bitglue.com (Phil Frost)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:35:22 -0400
Subject: PyGUI Homepage
In-Reply-To: <opsfibb8t2r0m89z@fx1025>
References: <opsfibb8t2r0m89z@fx1025>
Message-ID: <20041007163522.GA15420@unununium.org>

I had the same problem with the Pyrex page yesterday. Aparently greg has
been booted from canterbury.

On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 05:44:22PM +0200, Jonas Hei wrote:
> I am trying to get PyGUI but the homepage at
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python_gui/
> seems to have moved (or may be its just broken)
> 
> Has it moved?
> 
> Can I download it from somewhere else?


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sun Oct 10 16:08:09 2004
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:08:09 -0700
Subject: DV AVI frame extraction with Python?
References: <c41cca24.0410092251.7c17560b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <diho32-jut.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>

Igor wrote:
> Can anybody point at package for Python that can allow to open DV AVI
> file and extract frames from it?

You can use ffmpeg (which pymedia is based on) to convert the file
to a motion jpeg (tell it use extension mjpeg).  A motion jpeg file
is roughly each frame as a seperate jpeg image all concatenated together.

Roger 




From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 21:30:20 2004
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 18:30:20 -0700
Subject: Can Python run on the Internet
References: <cl58ko$2l0$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0410221730.2e95000c@posting.google.com>

John Mowbray <jmowbray2003 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<cl58ko$2l0$1 at sparta.btinternet.com>...
> I'd like to use Python in my classes, but some students do not have a 
> pc.  They do have access to Internet-connected systems, though.  Is 
> there a site someplace on the Internet (preferably a web server) where 
> someone can submit a Python program to be run?  Telnet may be possible 
> to use, but a browser would be ideal.
> 
> John

dude I really feel sorry for your students, you don't even have a
basic understanding of technical terms, you use them like a politician
or a hollywood screen writer, EMBARSSINGLY INCORRECTLY!


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 08:26:17 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 05:26:17 -0700
Subject: request for feedback: pyfmf
References: <oOGdnVv0D8jmduPcRVn-gg@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410270426.5d83bf0c@posting.google.com>

"Dan Perl" <danperl at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<oOGdnVv0D8jmduPcRVn-gg at rogers.com>...
> pyfmf is a project I started a few months ago and that is registered with 
> sourceforge (http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net, 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyfmf).  It consists of a framework for file 
> management, with a console based toolkit (zigo) and a graphical platform 
> (zago) based on the framework.  Both zigo and zago are still alpha releases, 
> addressed only to python enthusiasts.
> 
> I just released a new version of zigo and the first release of zago.  There 
> have been a few tens of downloads of previous releases of zigo (which is not 
> bad) but I never received any feedback (at least I didn't get any bad 
> feedback either).  I would like to hear what other people think about it.  I 
> am interested in comments on uses, design, coding or just simply whether you 
> think this is interesting and useful.  Please take a look at the home page 
> of the project: http://pyfmf.sourceforge.net.
> 

Another suggestion not so minor really - bundle docs *with* the
downloads, or as a minimum offer a separately packaged bundle of docs
for offline reading...... I've seen some amazingly useful looking
modules that I've never bothered to wade through the source code of to
work out what they actually do. Asa  simple rule it's about ten times
easier to write your own code than it is to read someone else's. It's
an extremely useful skill to gain - but not one you can rely on people
practising on your code !! Sorry, bit of a rant - but it really annoys
me when I download a useful looking bit of code, take it home and
unpack it - only to discover there's no docs bundled with it....
*sigh* If it's woorth writing, it's worth documenting...

Regards,


Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html

> Thanks,
> 
> Dan Perl


From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Oct  7 14:47:57 2004
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:47:57 -0400
Subject: Graceful detection of EOF
In-Reply-To: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
References: <654bb44cb5ff9def08dab7c56459c4c0@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>
Message-ID: <41658F5D.7030600@bellsouth.net>

MickeyBob wrote:

>How does one detect the EOF gracefully? Assuming I have a pickle file
>containing an unknown number of objects, how can I read (i.e.,
>pickle.load()) until the EOF is encountered without generating an EOF
>exception?
>
>Thanks for any assistance.
>MickeyBob
>
>  
>
pickle.load() should handle that for you, shouldn't it?  You just pass 
it a file-like object.  Pickle.load() should execute a .read() on it.


In [9]: d = {}

In [10]: for i,j in enumerate(range(10)):
   ....:     d[i] = j
   ....:

In [11]: d
Out[11]: {0: 0, 1: 1, 2: 2, 3: 3, 4: 4, 5: 5, 6: 6, 7: 7, 8: 8, 9: 9}

In [12]: pickle.dump(d, open('d.p', 'w'))

In [13]: dd = pickle.load(open('d.p', 'r'))

In [14]: dd
Out[14]: {0: 0, 1: 1, 2: 2, 3: 3, 4: 4, 5: 5, 6: 6, 7: 7, 8: 8, 9: 9}

Or are you trying to do something different?



Jeremy Jones
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From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Fri Oct 15 05:40:02 2004
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:40:02 +0100 (BST)
Subject: The IDE question
In-Reply-To: <416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
References: <mailman.4649.1097375295.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Bb2ad.846$Bw1.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4660.1097386799.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<TF5ad.15166$b5.730220@news3.tin.it>
	<416f9663$0$94915$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>
Message-ID: <35789.82.68.80.137.1097833202.squirrel@82.68.80.137>

To be pedantic for a second...

Eric3 is free on all platforms. However it requires PyQt and Qt which are
not free on all platforms. The idea of a commercal .exe version of Eric3
is a possibility which wouldn't require PyQt and Qt licenses and would be
priced to compete with the alternatives.

Let me or Detlev know if you would be interested in this.

Phil

> Eric3 is an oddity - it is free on Linux but commercial on Windows. It
> seems
> you need to buy a licence for Qt which in the UK is ?250 + VAT. This is
> substantially more than Komodo or WingIDE.
>
> Peter
>
> "GMTaglia" <liquid at kuht.it> wrote in message
> news:TF5ad.15166$b5.730220 at news3.tin.it...
>> dataangel wrote:
>>
>>> DrPython seems to be just what I'm looking for -- after a few bugs are
>>> fixed and the open file window is improved. I can't open files on
>>> computers on my local network because there's no mechanism to do that,
>>> I
>>> can't type in my own path (doesn't respond to me typing it in and
>>> hitting enter), and shortcuts to folders don't show up. I also managed
>>> to find a bug that consistenly makes my system hang :P
>>>
>>> I'm e-mailing them the bugs, but overall the best IDE I've tried so far
>>> :D
>>
>> Have a better look to eric3
>> http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html
>>
>> tabs
>> http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/images/eric3-screen-1.png
>>
>> debugger
>> http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/images/eric3-screen-2.png
>>
>> and much more
>> http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3-screenshots.html
>>
>> cheers
>> GMTaglia
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>




From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Sat Oct 23 14:19:31 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:19:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ConfigParser shootout, preliminary entry
References: <1098051181.4172ee6dea6f5@mcherm.com>
	<16761.55998.900388.409796@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<mailman.5355.1098530627.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<QPmdndv7xONw_-fcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5357.1098540970.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<jtidnZlHj6049OfcRVn-tA@powergate.ca>
	<mailman.5359.1098542166.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2-idnfYPRs9d8-fcRVn-oA@powergate.ca>
	<864d37090410230912795a565e@mail.gmail.com>
	<loom.20041023T200244-62@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <loom.20041023T201501-735@post.gmane.org>

Steven Bethard <steven.bethard <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
> Well said!  This is exactly what I was thinking while I read through this
> thread.  I imagine to classes would be provided: ConfigParser, which basically
> just reads an INI file and yields (key, value) pairs by section, and
> ConfigObject, which uses a ConfigParser to read the INI file and then converts
> this to attribute-style access.

Oh, I also wanted to mention that I *really* liked the idea on python-dev that
ConfigObject might be configurable in the same way as OptionParser:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-October/049597.html

I know a lot of the time I want to allow options to be specified in both the
configuration file and at the command line.

Steve



From 2002 at weholt.org  Tue Oct 26 16:06:35 2004
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:06:35 +0200
Subject: Write 10k integers to a file using struct
Message-ID: <6dbtn0hpfv8srggke84f0qkq7ll19tm7s5@4ax.com>

What's the quickest way to write and read 10.000 integer values ( or
more )  to and from a file? Using struct somehow? The example in the
docs shows how to handle to or three arguments, but is the fastest way
to write and read just a simple :

while data:
	f.write(struct.pack(format, integer-value))

or is there another, quicker and nicer way to do it????

Thomas


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  5 13:28:30 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:28:30 +0200
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>
	<mailman.4307.1096949563.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<uko932-mrd.ln1@lairds.us>
	<1gl6dmb.1jpp8u61a9ojk1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4338.1096988121.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl778l.d5q7spx0ductN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Richard Blackwood <richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com> wrote:
   ...
> Oh great, Python has nearly everything, you just have to add on 
> modules.

...except that this doesn't and can't alter syntax, nor the behavior of
built-ins.  This is very deliberate.

>  Not bad, pretty cool actually.  If use this PyProtocols will 
> my program be slower than if protocols were built-into the language?

The speed of an operation doesn't necessarily depend on whether it's
bundled with the language or implemented in a 3rd-party extension -- it
does depend a lot on how it's implemented, of course, but it's quite as
feasible to distribute speedy implementations separately as bundled, and
viceversa, lots of Python's standard library is implemented in Python
and not necessarily super-fast (in the transition 2.3 -> 2.4, currently
ongoing, general speedups of around 15%-20% are being observed, and up
to 1000% on some entirely reimplemented modules...).


Alex


From cce at clarkevans.com  Mon Oct 11 12:36:21 2004
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:36:21 -0400
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>
	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
Message-ID: <20041011163621.GA38745@prometheusresearch.com>

What? is lambda is going away?  Say it ain't so!

On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 08:26:19AM +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
| >f = lambda args: body
| >   is equivalent to
| >def f(args): body

Not really -- the item above is _bad style_, people write,

  def f(args):
      body

|    obj.f = lambda args: body

Or more commonly,

  func(arg, lambda args: body)

| I'd rather use lambda.

No joke.  For the common case above, which occurs _everywhere_ 
in my 'deferred execution' code, one would write:

   def somerandomname(args):
       body
   func(arg, somerandomname)

So, you've taken something that is a perfectly clear one-liner and
converted it into a 3 line chunk of code with _zero_ added clarity,
in fact, I'd say you've dramatically reduced clarity by requiring
the a name be 'minted'.  Ugly.  Multiply this by 10x in one of my
source files and you've taken something perfectly readable and
turned it into maze of confusion.  This _hides_ the true intent
rather than making it clear that the function is temporary thingy.

| >Not that it's coming any time soon, but Python 3000 is supposed to remove 
| >lambda functions

Expect me to whine very loudly on a daily basis when Python 3000 
becomes near.  In fact, let the preemptive supplication begin.

| Well, if lambda is removed (or not ;-), I hope an anonymous def 
| expression is allowed, so we can write
| 
|    obj.f = def(args):
|                body
| or
| 
|    obj.f = def(args): body
| 
| or
| 
|    obj.f = (
|        def(args):
|            body
|    ) 

Ewww.  How is this better than lambda? Let's keep lambda, no?

Clark

-- 
Clark C. Evans                      Prometheus Research, LLC.
                                    http://www.prometheusresearch.com/
    o                               office: +1.203.777.2550 
  ~/ ,                              mobile: +1.203.444.0557 
 //
((   Prometheus Research: Transforming Data Into Knowledge
 \\  ,
   \/    - Research Exchange Database
   /\    - Survey & Assessment Technologies
   ` \   - Software Tools for Researchers
    ~ *


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 22:34:00 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 22:34:00 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <CuWdnYPaJ93S1v7cRVn-hg@powergate.ca>
References: <55f5m0pi5lh91i6bq0jgf9q7uq9gan82da@4ax.com>	<4162CFCE.6040700@cloudthunder.com>	<20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<4162E3CC.3080200@cloudthunder.com>	<mailman.4365.1097001657.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<CuWdnYPaJ93S1v7cRVn-hg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <41635998.8030304@cloudthunder.com>

Peter L Hansen wrote:

> Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
>
>> Kids. You should try it. When they come to you with a list of 45+
>> questions about the meaning of life, the universe and everything, then
>> you may be able to understand how did _we_ feel. :-)
>>
>> <SNIP>
>
>
>
> Suffice to say that rather than be delighted, Richard would
> be appalled at the sheer lack of functioning gray matter that
> his non-existent kids were demonstrating, and he'd be back
> here the next day asking us where he could find a good lawyer...
> to disown them!
>
> (As he points out in his reply, it is a quite different case.)
>
> -Peter

Depends on how old they are.  I may very well be amazed and pleased that 
they would be so curious, put the effort into compiling such a list, and 
bold enough to ask me.  Again, I wouldn't discourage them and I would do 
everything I could to help them.  But still, this is a different case as 
you guys are not my parents, etc. 

P.S.   I would be amused by the first part "paying particular attention 
to proper English usage and formatting"  *chuckles*



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 21 02:54:58 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:54:58 +0200
Subject: Method Underscores?
References: <9dIdd.3712$EL5.3057@trndny09>
Message-ID: <1glzzt1.z6bt4s1qryaevN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Chris S. <chrisks at NOSPAM.udel.edu> wrote:

> Is there a purpose for using trailing and leading double underscores for
> built-in method names?

They indicate that a method is special (not 'built-in').  One that
causes Python to call it implicitly under certain circumstances.

So, for example, a class which happened to define method iter would not
start behaving strangely when 'iter' acquired a special meaning in some
future version of the language: the special meaning if it comes will be
instead put on __iter__ .  This has indeed happened (in 2.2).
Otherwise, you'd have the same problem with special methods as you do
with keywords: introducing one is a _major_ undertaking since it risks
breaking backwards compatibility (built-in names do not have that risk;
it may not be obvious but some reflection will show that).

(( The general practice of marking some class of identifiers with
special characters to distinguish them from others is known as stropping
and was introduced in early Algol 60 implementations, to distinguish
keywords from names; the Algol standard used roman font versus italics
for the purpose, but that didn't translate well to punched cards! ))

> My impression was that underscores are supposed 
> to imply some sort of pseudo-privatization,

Leading-only underscores do.  Underscores in the middle imply nothing,
it's just a style of making an identifier from many words; some like
this_way, some like thatWay.  Trailing-only underscore normally is used
when otherwise an identifier would be a keyword, as in 'class_' or
'print_' (you need some convention for that when you're interfacing
external libraries -- ctypes, COM, Corba, SOAP, etc, etc -- since
nothing stops the external library from having defined a name which
happens to clash with a Python keyword).  Leading AND trailing double
underscores imply specialness.

> but would using 
> myclass.len() instead of myclass.__len__() really cause Python 
> considerable harm?

If you were designing Python from scratch, the tradeoff would be:
-- unstropped specialnames are easier to read, but
-- future evolution of the language will be severely hampered (or
   else backwards compatibility will often get broken).

So it's a tradeoff, just like the choice of stropping or not for
barenames (identifiers); Perl strops because Larry Wall decided early on
he wanted lots of easy evolution (there's also a tradition of stropping
identifiers in scripting languages, from EXEC to the present; sometimes
under guise of _substitution_, where an identifier being bound is not
stropped but it needs stropping to be used, as in sh and tcl; Rexx and
Python deliberately reject that tradition to favour legibility).

I think Guido got that design choice right: unstropped barenames for all
normal uses, unstropped keywords, pay the price whenever a keyword needs
to be added (that's rarely), stropped-by-convention specialnames
(they're way rarer than barenames in general, _and_ the addition of
specialnames is more frequent).

On the specific lexical-sugar issue of what punctuation characters to
use for this stropping, I pass; the double underscores on both sides are
a bit visually invasive, other choices might have been sparer, but then
I guess that part of the choice was exactly to make the specialness of
specialnames stand out starkly.  Since it's unlikely I'll soon need to
design a Python-like language and thus to decide on exactly how to strop
specialnames, it's blissfully superfluous for me to decide;-).


Alex


From me at privacy.net  Mon Oct 18 09:10:26 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Tobias Pfeiffer)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 13:10:26 GMT
Subject: md5 and large files
References: <cku6ts$42g$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<4172a5f6$0$28202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<4172AA52.9030606@vt.edu> <sgjb42-phv.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
Message-ID: <2thtm1F1u2mshU1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

On 18 Okt 2004, Roger Binns wrote:

> Brad Tilley wrote:
>> I would like to verify that the files are not corrupt so what's the
>> most efficient way to calculate md5 sums on 4GB files? The machine
>> doing the calculations is a small desktop with 256MB of RAM.
> 
> If you need to be 100% certain, then only doing md5sum over the
> entire file will work as Tim points out.

This is not true. I'd say there are quite a lot of 2 GB files that 
produce the same md5 hash...

I think he has to see what he really wants to do with that file. If the 
goal is "compute the md5sum", then a loop with md5.update() seems most 
appropriate to me. If the goal is "check the equality" or "check whether 
they are corrupted", why md5? He can just read small blocks from the file 
and then do a simple string comparison. Might even be faster. And here, 
the chance is really close to 100% he'd notice a change in the files. :-)

Bye
Tobias

-- 
please send any mail to botedesschattens(at)web(dot)de


From anna at aleax.it  Fri Oct  1 05:09:34 2004
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Martelli Ravenscroft)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:09:34 GMT
Subject: Day of Year Behaviour
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4155.1096586203.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4155.1096586203.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <i997d.36162$35.1735759@news4.tin.it>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> Hector Villafuerte wrote:
> 
>>I have 2 fields:
>>YEAR
>>DAY_OF_YEAR
>>
>>and I need to get the complete date out of this, e.g.:
>>YEAR=2004
>>DAY_OF_YEAR=1
>>-> DATE=2004/Jan/1
>>
>>YEAR=2004
>>DAY_OF_YEAR=33
>>-> DATE=2004/Feb/2
>>
>>I'm using the time module without success:
>>
>>>>>time.localtime(time.mktime((2004, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0)))
>>
>>(2003, 11, 30, 0, 0, 0, 6, 334, 0)
> 
> 
> One way to do it:
> 
> 
>>>>import datetime
>>>>YEAR = 2004
>>>>DAY_OF_YEAR = 33
>>>>d = datetime.date(YEAR, 1, 1) + datetime.timedelta(DAY_OF_YEAR - 1)
>>>>d
> 
> datetime.date(2004, 2, 2)

Or a bit more explicit, using dateutil's yearday:

 >>> import datetime
 >>> from dateutil import relativedelta as rdel
 >>> year = 2004
 >>> d = datetime.date(year, 1, 1)
 >>> date = d + rdel.relativedelta(yearday=33)
 >>> print date
2004-02-02

There are a lot of handy things you can do with the dateutil package.

Anna


From elbertlev at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 13 22:32:23 2004
From: elbertlev at hotmail.com (Elbert Lev)
Date: 13 Oct 2004 19:32:23 -0700
Subject: threads and sockets
References: <mailman.4826.1097666075.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9418be08.0410131832.58bcb223@posting.google.com>

Ajay <abra9823 at mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.4826.1097666075.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> hi!
> 
> how can i stop a server socket running in a thread other than the main
> thread? if the server socket was a local variable of the function started
> by the child thread, would calling join work?
> 

Here is how you do what this:

import socket, threading

class MyThread(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        HOST = ''
        PORT = 50007
        self.s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        #! blocking operatioms on this socket (accept) will timeout
        self.s.settimeout(1)
        self.s.bind((HOST, PORT))
        self.s.listen(5)
        self._stop = False
    def stop(self):
        self._stop = True
    def run(self):
        while 1:
            try:
                if self._stop:
                    print "stop requested"
                    break
                conn, addr = self.s.accept()
                print "connection from", addr
            except socket.timeout:
                print "timeout"
            except socket.error:
                print "socket.error"
                break
        self.s.close()
        
def TimerFucn(t):
    print "TimerFucn"
    t.stop()
    # you can do t.close(). accept() will throw an exception 
    # in thos case all the stuff with stop() is not needed

listener = MyThread()
t = threading.Timer(10, TimerFucn, (listener,))
t.start()
listener.start()

while 1:
    s = raw_input()
    if s[0] == 'q':
        break


From chris.cavalaria at free.fr  Tue Oct 26 18:07:26 2004
From: chris.cavalaria at free.fr (Christophe Cavalaria)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:07:26 +0200
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5321.1098456297.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u45bhF263o38U2@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5430.1098718895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2u74k3F277sd4U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<417ec5c5$0$30592$626a14ce@news.free.fr>
	<1gmafkh.1672phg48q9hvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <417eca9e$0$30597$626a14ce@news.free.fr>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Christophe Cavalaria <chris.cavalaria at free.fr> wrote:
> 
>> Oliver Fromme wrote:
>> 
>> > The appropriate type checking is done at compile time.  That
>> > is, if your program calls sort with two lists of different
>> > type (e.g. a list of strings and a list of ints), then the
>> > compiler will detect that and report an error.
>> 
>> This must be a bad example because I expect to be able to sort a list of
>> integers and a list of strings with the same sort function.
> 
> Haskell should have no problem with that, thanks to typeclasses; but I
> don't think ML-family languages have that (though O'Caml has always, for
> years, been gaining oodles of features so fast I can't tell what is in
> it or not any more;-).
> 
> But I agree with you -- generic programming should mean the compiler
> instantiates as many concrete versions of the 'template' function as
> needed... ideally with full type inferencing (which in C++'s templating
> "sort of works BUT", but in good typesystems such as Haskell's or ML's
> should just work...).
> 
> 
> Alex
You must admit that C++'s templating works very well for that. Well, at
least this is what I call generic programing : the ability to code
something in a type independent way and expect it to work with whatever
type I throw at it if it makes sense.



From jonathan at gennick.com  Mon Oct 18 17:02:44 2004
From: jonathan at gennick.com (Jonathan Gennick)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:02:44 -0400
Subject: Mike Chermside
Message-ID: <jqb8n0l59ku4psvtbt1su5crke7egio0pu@4ax.com>

Another whom I'm trying to locate is:

mike.chermside at destiny.com

The above address also no longer works.

Best regards,

Jonathan Gennick
Editor, O'Reilly Media
906.387.1698   mailto:jgennick at oreilly.com


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Oct 11 14:58:44 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:58:44 -0700
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <2qtl0oF139gn6U1@uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.3428.1095385637.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Eps2d.28226$%S.369@pd7tw2no>	<mailman.3440.1095407177.5135.python-list@python.org>	<cie73b$jma$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>	<mailman.4711.1097512597.5135.python-list@python.org>	<10mli0vohrtf8b6@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4717.1097518098.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10mllq67t1qah3b@corp.supernews.com>

Clark C. Evans wrote:

>On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 10:54:05AM -0700, Jeff Shannon wrote:
>| 
>| .... It 
>| seems to me that the benefits of having lambda are outweighed by the 
>| fair amount of extra mental space that they use up.  It just strikes me 
>| as too much of a special case to deserve special syntax that has 
>| absolutely no parallel elsewhere in Python.
>
>If you don't like lambda -- don't use it.   Just beacuse you are
>unfamilar with a very helpful construct and are unwilling to learn
>does not mean you should prevent others from continuing to enjoy 
>one of the more pleasant aspects of Python.
>  
>

Except that one of the design principles of Python is that it being easy 
to *read* is more important than being easy to write, with the 
assumption that much of the code that one reads will be code written by 
someone else.  I do care how readable your code is, because (at least in 
principle) someday I may need to maintain it.  ("If you don't like X, 
don't use it, but let others use it if they like" seems to be much more 
Perlish than Pythonic, at least IMHO.)

Lambdas are hard to read, because they're significantly different, 
syntactically, from any other construct in the language -- it's not that 
I'm _unwilling_ to learn, it's that it is actively *difficult* to learn 
because it doesn't fit well, conceptually, into the rest of the 
language, so there's a mental impedance barrier that must be overcome.  
In order to explain lambdas to someone who is not already familiar with 
them, you have to explain first that it's kind of like a function def, 
except that it uses totally different syntax (aren't function defs 
supposed to use parens?), and you don't explicitly return anything even 
though it *does* return a value, and oh yes, you can't actually use 
statements because it has to be a single expression (and then you get to 
explain the difference between statements and expressions, and explain 
*why* there's a difference and that it really is a good thing)...   
That's a lot of special treatment for those cases where there actually 
might be a slight advantage to using an anonymous function, and "Special 
cases aren't special enough to break the rules."  Lambdas *do* break 
many of Python's usual rules.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From zach at cs.uni-bonn.de  Tue Oct 19 20:05:29 2004
From: zach at cs.uni-bonn.de (Gabriel Zachmann)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 00:05:29 GMT
Subject: strongly typed
Message-ID: <slrncnbau9.bba.zach@fuji.informatik.uni-bonn.de>

On
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_language

I read that Python is a strongly typed language,
while C++ is regarded a weakly typed language in that article.

Could somebody please explain to me why Python is a more strongly typed
language than C++?

All pointers and insights will be highly appreciated,
Gabriel.

-- 
/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| We act as though comfort and luxury                                     |
| were the chief requirements of life,                                    |
| when all that we need to make us happy                                  |
| is something to be enthusiastic about.              (Einstein)          |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| zach at cs.uni-bonn.de            __@/'        www.gabrielzachmann.org     |
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/


From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 14:30:21 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:30:21 -0600
Subject: I sing the praises of lambda, my friend and savior!
In-Reply-To: <20041011175428.GA69425@prometheusresearch.com>
References: <loom.20041011T184743-487@post.gmane.org>
	<20041011175428.GA69425@prometheusresearch.com>
Message-ID: <d11dcfba041011113015238a80@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:54:29 -0400, Clark C. Evans <cce at clarkevans.com> wrote:
> By this logic, one would make a function,
> 
>  def quadratic(a,b,c):
>      def eval(x):
>          return a*x*x+b*x+c
> 
> and use quadratic(0,2,1,x) where you'd otherwise write (2*x+1)?

No.  Sorry, I obviously wasn't clear here.  The suggestion made to me
was to generalize the function only as much as necessary so that it
could apply to multiple statements *in my code*.  So, while I would
write your 'quadratic' function if my code contained statements like:

func(arg, lambda x: 2*x**2 + 2*x+1)
func(arg, lambda x: 2*x+2)
func(arg, lambda x: 3*x**2+1)

where I truly need the a, b, and c parameters, if my code instead looked like:

func(arg1, lambda x: 2*x+1)
func(arg2, lambda x: 2*x+1)

then I would definitely write it as:

def times2plus1(x):
    return 2*x+1
func(arg1, times2plus1)
func(arg2, times2plus1)

Note that the full 'quadratic' example requires a more verbose, nested
function approach because we want partial function application.  We
could also rewrite the code as something like:

def quadratic(a, b, c, x):
    return a*x**2+b*x+c
func(arg, partial(quadratic, 0, 2, 1))

using partial function application (check the Cookbook for implementation).

Yes, it's still more verbose.  But if you have 30 instances of

func(arg, lambda x: a*x**2+b*x+c) 

each with different a's, b's and c's, and you realize later that these
should all be using a*x**2-b*x-c instead, it's much quicker to fix the
one function than the 30.  =)  On the other hand, if you have only one
instance, I can certainly understand the reluctance.

Out of curiosity, is this quadratic example a real example from your
code, or were you just making this one up?  Just so you know where I
was coming from, the code I changed went from:

self.assertRaises(IndexError, lambda t: t[-10])
self.assertRaises(IndexError, lambda t: t[9])
...
    
to

def getitem(obj, item):
    return obj[item]
self.assertRaises(IndexError, getitem, tree, -10)
self.assertRaises(IndexError, getitem, tree, 9)
...

Note that I had enough assertRaises calls to probably justify this
change -- if I decide later there's something more I should do in
getitem, I can change it in only one place.

> That said, a simple conditional expression would be delightful, as
> I often use mappings (see above) for this sort of logic.

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree.  (Though of course this one has been
beaten into the ground already, so I won't hold my breath.)

Steve
-- 
You can wordify anything if you just verb it.
        - Bucky Katt, Get Fuzzy


From noone at here.com  Sun Oct  3 10:23:11 2004
From: noone at here.com (M. Clift)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 15:23:11 +0100
Subject: append to  items  depending on prior item
Message-ID: <cjp1sl$qlj$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi All,

I have tried to come up with a way to do this myself and all I end up with
is very long code.

What I have is a say item1, item4, item2, item1 etc...

What I want to do is append to each item an extra value depending on the
previous item.

from random import *

items = [' item1',' item4',' item2',' item1']

items[0].append choice('1','2','3')
print items

for idx in range(len(items)):
    if previous item == ['item1']:
        next item.append choice('a','b','c')
    if previous item == ['item2']:
        next item.append choice('d','e','f')

        print items


appended items = item1b, item4a, item2f etc...

Now I know that the code is hopelessly wrong - you can't append a string,
but you get the idea. Doing it using if statements could go on and on. Could
someone show me a short way

Thanks,

M






From dd55 at cornell.edu  Sun Oct 10 13:06:47 2004
From: dd55 at cornell.edu (Darren Dale)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:06:47 -0400
Subject: module name not recognized
References: <ck6s3u$bp4$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
	<mailman.4662.1097393832.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckbq7s$7vc$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Darren Dale wrote:
> 
>>I have built two basic modules using distutils. One of them installs fine,
>> but the other, I can't import modules from it. I've been pouring over the
>> code and I cant find the problem.
>>
>> I know the file has been copied to site-packages/mypackage, but I cant do
>>
>> from mypackage import mymodule
> 
> really?  do you mean that you could type that into your mail program, but
> not into a Python program?  that's weird... (read on)
> 
>> Could I get suggestions as to why a module would be installed but not
>> registered?
> 
> if you run python with the -vv option, it tells you where it looks.
> 
>     $ python -vv
>     ...
>     >>> from mypackage import mymodule
>     # trying mypackage.so
>     # trying mypackage.py
>     # trying mypackage.pyc
>     ...
> 
> btw, note that if that import finds a mypackage without a mymodule,
> it says
> 
>     ImportError: cannot import name mymodule
> 
> if it cannot find mypackage itself, it says
> 
>     ImportError: No module named mypackage
> 
> (this is why you should *always* include tracebacks when asking about
> an error...  "can't do" or "doesn't work" or "an error" or even "an import
> error" doesn't contain all the information you have, so you're forcing us
> to
> guess.  don't do that, if you can avoid it)
> 
> </F>

Sorry, I thought the subject line would be enough information. You are
right. The relevant ouput from python -vv is below. Distutils installed the
package to /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/simCTR, but python is looking
only in the directory of my test script:


# trying /home/darren/temp/simCTR/fresnel.so
# trying /home/darren/temp/simCTR/fresnelmodule.so
# trying /home/darren/temp/simCTR/fresnel.py
# trying /home/darren/temp/simCTR/fresnel.pyc
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "temp.py", line 7, in ?
    from simCTR.fresnel import *
ImportError: No module named fresnel


Why doesnt python check in /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/simCTR? It does
so for the other package I built. Here is the contents of the
site-packages/simCTR directory:

-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1248 Oct 10 12:56 __init__.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1952 Oct 10 12:56 __init__.pyc
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  7805 Oct  8 16:00 fresnel.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  8062 Oct 10 12:51 fresnel.pyc
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 10235 Oct  8 16:00 kinematic.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 14011 Oct 10 12:51 kinematic.pyc
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  3795 Oct  5 12:53 spaceGroups.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  4381 Oct 10 12:51 spaceGroups.pyc


Thanks,
Darren



From bradtilley at usa.net  Thu Oct  7 19:40:48 2004
From: bradtilley at usa.net (Brad Tilley)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:40:48 -0400
Subject: _winreg problem
In-Reply-To: <BJedne4cdK3gW_jcRVn-gA@comcast.com>
References: <ck4bhc$ll3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<BJedne4cdK3gW_jcRVn-gA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <ck4k5o$4f3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Larry Bates wrote:
> It took me DAYS to find this on the Net.  The "trick" is you need
> extra parameters on your OpenKey call, otherwise you get your error.
> 
> Try following, I think it will help.:
> 
>     key = OpenKey(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, x, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
> 
> Good Luck,
> 
> Larry Bates

Thanks, besides using OpenKey() correctly, I found that the values did 
indeed have to be ints... here's a working function:

def log_limits():
     logs = ['Application', 'Security', 'System']
     vals = {'Retention':0, 'MaxSize':10223616, 'RestrictGuestAccess':1}
     for l in logs:
         x = r"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Eventlog\%s" % l
         key = OpenKey(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, x, 0, KEY_SET_VALUE)
         for n,v in vals.iteritems():
             SetValueEx(key,n,0,REG_DWORD,v)
         CloseKey(key)


From bradtilley at gmail.com  Mon Oct 18 16:34:54 2004
From: bradtilley at gmail.com (Brad Tilley)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:34:54 -0400
Subject: md5 and large files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5128.1098124728.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <UqGdncN5T6jxX-7cRVn-2A@powergate.ca>	<2tic7kF1vnt1fU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.5128.1098124728.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cl19dr$nqo$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Josiah Carlson wrote:
>>Of course I can't... *grin* -- But actually, (correct me if I'm wrong) an 
>>MD5 sum is 128 bits long, that are 2^128 different possibilities. Now a 2 
>>GB file has 8*2*1024^3 bits, that are 2^17179869184 different 
>>possibilities for a 2 GB file. Am I wright thinking that the number of 
>>files with an identical md5 sum is now 2^17179869184 / 2^128 = 
>>2^17179869056?
> 
> 
> (I know this is a major simplification, but bear with me)
> 
> Your probability and numbers are correct.  The problem is that 2^128 is
> so damn huge

All you need is 2^128+1 to find a duplicate, no? The problem, as I 
understand it, is getting to the end (2^128+1) as sufficient computing 
power isn't available... yet.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  4 05:59:04 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:59:04 +0200
Subject: detecting socket in use on localhost
References: <cjqssg$bh7$1@news.tudelft.nl>
	<1gl4lmg.1das1ob1esi359N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cjr140$jde$1@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <1gl4rpq.12u4nyvzumwjlN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Berends <j at jochem.{N0SP4M}.tv> wrote:
   ...
> > If you need a cross-platform solution I think you'll need to adopt a
> > trial-and-error strategy.  Two main possibilities: 
   ...
> I found another solution and that is parse the netstat information on
> the host and grep the range of ports and see if something is returned.

Oh yes, an unstated corollary of my 'If' above was: if you don't care
about cross-platform portability AND are using a good platform, then
there are no doubt better solutions!


Alex


From klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de  Fri Oct 29 09:30:04 2004
From: klaus_neuner82 at yahoo.de (Klaus Neuner)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 06:30:04 -0700
Subject: another try: "timout actions"
Message-ID: <3e96ebd7.0410290530.39bbc7cb@posting.google.com>

Hello,

as I am desperately searching for a (straightforward) solution of the
following problem, I'll give it another try:

How can I tell Python to do things of the following kind:

for n seconds try to do:
    somefunc()
other_func()

somefunc() should be allowed to imply ANY activity Python is
capable to do. When the n seconds are over, Python should not exit the
program but execute other_func().

It turned out that the module signal is a solution for some but not
for all instances of somefunc(): If somefunc() contains a regexp match
that does not terminate (in a reasonable time), then the program will
not go on to other_func() (after n seconds). You can verify this by
running the programs (1) and (2) given below.

So, what other ways are there to code actions of the type described
above? Which way would be the cleanest and most straightforward? (I
don't want to use a program call, because this would decrease
readability, portability and other good properties a lot.)

Thanks in advance and sorry for asking the same question twice.

Klaus


#############################################################

# (1)

import sys, signal


class Timeout(Exception): 
    pass

def alarm_handler(signum, frame):
    raise Timeout

try:
    signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, alarm_handler)
    signal.alarm(3) 
    n = 0
    while 1:
        print n
        n = n+1
except Timeout:
    print "Time over."

#############################################################

# (2)

import sys, signal, re

class Timeout(Exception): 
    pass

def alarm_handler(signum, frame):
    raise Timeout

try:
    signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, alarm_handler)
    signal.alarm(3) 
    re.search("a(((.)*c)*d)*e", "abcdf"*20)
except Timeout:
    print "Time over."


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Oct 27 10:19:50 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:19:50 -0400
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410270506.3754043f@posting.google.com>
References: <20041025223914.0B2C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<20041027030115.82565.qmail@web20427.mail.yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5543.1098852393.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<940ee3e8.0410270506.3754043f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bdOfd.18743$%t3.5615@lakeread01>

kartik wrote:

> Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.5543.1098852393.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>Automated testing is the process of creating a set of test inputs with
>>outputs to validate that your software is working correctly or not.
>>
>>Overflow errors can occur during regular program execution, and as such,
>>are not an automated test.
> 
> 
> Sorry for the wrong terminology.
> -kartik

Well, since I've just read about five or six posts that said "sorry" in 
various ways about various things, let me respond with a heartfelt 
"Welcome to c.l.py".

benn-known-to-have-to-apologize-myself-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  3 03:57:12 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:57:12 +0200
Subject: python vs c# [way, way, WAY OT]
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<EPmdnagKPrUPhtPcRVn-iQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.3529.1095642828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gkgxts.1fq0rwq10mycqiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41513aac$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gkih9r.pfgqukvpt1rcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<37tjl09an200u6tejkrtklc8ib86uk7rm1@4ax.com>
	<7E_6d.33917$35.1643590@news4.tin.it>
	<cji8qo$qro$0$216.39.172.122@theriver.com>
	<mailman.4165.1096608897.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<415CFA79.9070105@holdenweb.com>
	<slrnclq089.t09.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<0l7ul05ker0i9n039c0ut4pna3hh54dfou@4ax.com>
	<mailman.4201.1096756628.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnclue66.n81.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
	<415F6896.5090406@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <1gl2qu9.1nj9i2s1yt9erkN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> > He really is a Professor of Linguistics and not some elaborate web hoax :)
> > 
> Well Linguistics isn't Language.

Of course not, it's the _study_ of language.  A linguist, for example,
need not be a very powerful and engaging writer, or speaker -- much like
a sports trainer need not be a very fast runner, or swimmer.  But, if
you want to enhance your sporting abilities, you may still be better off
with the advice of somebody who studies the effects of various
combinations of diet and exercise, rather than with the advice of
somebody else, who just happens to be able to run a four-minute mile...

Of course, linguistics has long been split between prescriptive and
descriptive orientations.  The long-term trend is definitely away from
the prescriptive (which centuries ago used to rule supreme) and towards
the descriptive (which isn't controversial any more, as soon as you get
into the actual professional practice -- peer-reviewed journals, etc).
How you "should" express yourself, after all, depends on your purposes;
the best a linguist can do is elucidate for you the likely consequences
of a stylistic or grammatical choice.  It's not an issue of "who ya
gonna call?" being ``better'' or ``worse'' than "whom are you going to
contact?"... if you understand the contexts in which either way of
expression is going to be clearer, how they're going to affect your
audience, and so on, you can _choose_ effectively between them.


Alex


From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Oct  8 03:38:58 2004
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:38:58 +0200
Subject: Tracking Users By IP Address
In-Reply-To: <4165bcb5$0$55252$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <li0am0128gifm4svo1v114mm5gn0jk0njh@4ax.com>
	<4165bcb5$0$55252$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <ipsh32-ro1.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-10-07, Fuzzyman <fuzzyman at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>Assuming that each visitor will have a unique IP address is
>>probably not 100% accurate but will have a reasonably low
>>margin of error!!
> 
> Not.  A significant portion (I'd guess a vast majority) of the
> machines out there have either dynamically allocated IP
> addresses or are behind a proxy or NAT firewall.

Even worse: HTTP proxy networks (e.g. AOL) will make hits in one session 
from the very same user appear with *different* IP addresses.

Ciao, Michael.


From jerf at jerf.org  Sat Oct 30 13:18:38 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:18:38 GMT
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
	<mailman.5652.1099050368.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ueq45F2a9e6eU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<6c6a52-r5t.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<clu3cd$oe$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.10.30.00.47.53.108306@jerf.org>
	<clugqd$ukm$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.30.18.18.49.943222@jerf.org>

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:39:13 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Its not so complicated to get a corba server running - at least imho.

http://xmlrpc.scripting.com/directory/1568/implementations

I would be surprised you could get one in all those environments, and
doesn't CORBA have ORB interop concerns rather often?

Besides, how exactly do you get CORBA going in Javascript? Squeak, from a
quick web search, doesn't have an ORB either. That's just two I plucked
out of the list.

Yes, it is in some sense a step back. That's the whole point. If it
doesn't meet your needs, don't use it, but it isn't useless, either; if
CORBA met all needs XML-RPC would never have been created, as it
post-dates CORBA by quite a lot.

I've used it in a few situations where CORBA either doesn't exist, or
would be damned inconvenient; a couple of other enviroments without CORBA,
importing my weblog from one system to another, that sort of thing. 

I know CORBA seems easy to you, I'm willing to bet CORBA would seem easy
to me. (It can't be worse than COM, from what I hear, and I've engaged in
mortal combat with that technology a couple of times.) But there is
still a lot of programmers/scripters who really can't follow it, and
XML-RPC works better for them. (I speak of users, not implementers.)

> But it gets the
> attention these days, due to clever marketing and the fact that its
> based on xml - something that seems to be a must these days.

The latter most likely rather than the former; the "marketing" for XML-RPC
has been "Here it is, use it if you like." The is no significant company
behind it, pushing for it, just this one guy, really. SOAP is the one with
the big marketing push.

BTW, the usual solution to the authentication problem is to require a
username and password on each call. It has its disadvantages, yes, but it
actually has a couple of security advantages, too. (There is no persistant
connection you can "break into" and get the privs of the authenticated
account; I forget what this attack is called. **Obviously** there are
other concerns, I'm just pointing this one thing out.) If authentication
takes a long time, cache it on the server side. It may seem clumsy but it
isn't much different than the HTTP solution with cookies (one way or
another you are passing a handful of bytes of extra state to the server),
and it's not like it isn't trivial to fix in any real language with a
wrapper or something. XML-RPC has real problems on large scale use but
authentication is hardly one of them. You don't use XML-RPC when
processing bajillions of queries where the overhead of parsing XML would
be signficant is your goal. Outside of that, while persistent connections
might be nice, they would complexify the spec and smack of premature
optimization.


From Sylvain.Thenault at logilab.fr  Mon Oct 25 05:55:19 2004
From: Sylvain.Thenault at logilab.fr (Sylvain =?iso-8859-1?Q?Th=E9nault?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:55:19 +0200
Subject: [ANN] PyLint 0.5
Message-ID: <20041025095518.GC1118@logilab.fr>

Hi all,

I'm pleased to announce a new PyLint's release. This is a major 
development release, since PyLint doesn't have anymore to import
analyzed modules (well, there are still some cases where modules are
imported, but it's not to build the underlying representation of the
python source code).

This release requires the latest common library release (0.7).

Visit our website to download it or to get more information :

http//www.logilab.org/projects/pylint


Enjoy !
-- 
Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France).

http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Oct 28 08:42:42 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:42:42 -0400
Subject: PIL JPEG Windows Problem
Message-ID: <6U5gd.19857$SW3.18915@fed1read01>

If nobody has a quick answer I'll go to the PIL list, but I'm having 
problems with PIL JPEG support on Windows, and figured someone on c.l.py 
might have solved this problem.

I built the Cygwin PIL from source, and that works a treat. 
Unfortunately the Windows version (1.1.4 and 1.1.5b1) loaded using 
binary installers is giving

   File "/c/steve/website/hpgraphics.py", line 23, in ?
   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\ImageFont.py", line 115, in ?
     class FreeTypeFont:
   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\ImageFont.py", line 132, in 
FreeTypeFont
     def getmask(self, text, mode="", fill=Image.core.fill):
   File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py", line 45, in 
__getattr__
     raise ImportError("The _imaging C module is not installed")
ImportError: The _imaging C module is not installed

When I import the _imaging module directly a dialog box informs me that 
libjpeg.dll can't be found, and I have confirmed that it isn't anywhere 
on the disk  - I have a libjpeg.dll.a as part of cygwin, but I can't 
persuade myself this can be munged into suitable form. It would be nice 
if I were wrong ...

The PIL docs do say something about having to add JPEG support, but 
unfortunately I can't find any information about adding *Windows* JPEG 
support.

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 13 03:28:26 2004
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 01:28:26 -0600
Subject: IPython functionality to python [was Re: Some notes]
References: <5c882bb5.0410121238.71ae761a@posting.google.com>
	<du7vfdfyu30.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <ckilfq$o2m$1@sea.gmane.org>

Ville Vainio wrote:

>>>>>> "bearophile" == bearophile  <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> writes:

>     bearophile> Some of the functions of IPython seem good and simple,
>     bearophile> and I think some of them can be integrated into the
>     bearophile> main Python line.
> 
> IPython will be going through a Grand Cleanup Real Soon Now (as
> Fernando Perez' time permits). Before that, integration of the
> functionality probably isn't the smart thing to do.

Coming, coming :)  Seriously, 0.6.4 is ready, I'm just giving the 2 week break
for the BSD licensing I said I would.  I consider 0.6.4 the 'end of the line',
and I've started already rejecting requests for more changes/improvements, so
the Grand Cleanup doesn't get delayed any longer.  

As there seems to be interest from various projects in having ipython as a good
interactive shell (which is obviously the kind of use I want to see), the need
for such a cleanup is becoming more pressing.  Given the unfortunate reality
that ipython only gets the scraps of my 'free' time, helping hands would be
quite welcome (though be ready to dive into a big code hairball if you sign up
for the job :)

Best,

f



From benkial at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 28 02:47:28 2004
From: benkial at hotmail.com (Ben Kial)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 06:47:28 GMT
Subject: Python utility convert Windows long file name into 8.3 DOS format
Message-ID: <4C0gd.20216$R05.13225@attbi_s53>

Is there a Python program to convert Windows long filename, like "c:\Program
Files" into the old DOS 8.3 format, like "c:\Progra~1"?

Thanks in advance,

Ben




From nun at example.com  Sun Oct 10 04:32:44 2004
From: nun at example.com (Mitja)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:32:44 +0200
Subject: new to python
References: <9c3edc58.0410092134.8e5278a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Ep6ad.4047$F6.1112434@news.siol.net>

Chris Patton wrote:
> I need to make several user-defined objects for a program
> I'm making. I know that one way is to use the exec
> statement (i.e. exec 'raw_input() = "cheese"'), but it
> can get very visually cluttered at times.
> i.e. exec
> raw_input()+num+'={"I":'+b+','+am+':"just","fine":1}'
>
> Does anyone know a different way I can do this? I need to
> do this to define a dictionary, but a general method for
> all objects would be better.

Don't go for global user-defined variables - it's hard to control and a big security risk. A far better thing to do would be
something like

usersVars={}
usersVars[raw_input()]= {4:'sdf', 'foo':'bar'}




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  7 07:33:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:33:44 +0200
Subject: Creating new classes on the fly
References: <mailman.4376.1097009632.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gla4id.eu73uh1clm50oN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.4484.1097140045.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glafww.uri2xe1hkbpd3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> > They're not quite the same, if the bases tuple is empty or only has
> > classic classes.  I would normally use the second form because new-style
> > classes are generally preferred.
> 
> Question: why is it not pointed out clearly in the documentation? It

My guess is: because nobody ever submitted a documentation patch about
it.

> btw -- the documentation is lacking at *many* points when it comes to
> new style classes, metaclasses, descriptors, and the related
> protocols. I couldn't find a clear description of the class creation
> process there -- although there are lots of info in the Wiki... but
> there *should* be something on the docs, don't you think?

Yes, I agree with you, and I'm sure documentation patches dealing with
these problems would most likely be well received.


Alex


From sean.berry2 at cox.net  Sun Oct 10 22:11:38 2004
From: sean.berry2 at cox.net (news.west.cox.net)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:11:38 -0700
Subject: PIL question - saving JPEG
References: <mphad.42310$a85.20380@fed1read04>
	<mailman.4673.1097444893.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <UYlad.42551$a85.20445@fed1read04>


"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.4673.1097444893.5135.python-list at python.org...
> "news.west.cox.net" wrote:
>
>>I have a fairly simple Python program that uses Image and ImageDraw to 
>>create poll results on the fly.
>>
>> Because PIL only supports 256 colors for GIF and BMPs are huge (in 
>> comparison)... I have opted to create JPEGs.
>>
>> I have installed JPEG-6b and have checked to see that all of the 
>> libraries are in the correct, expected places.  But, I am still getting 
>> the following error.
>>
>> IOError: encoder jpeg not available
>
> have you verified that PIL's build process was able to find and link 
> against
> the JPEG libraries?  here's how to fix this in 1.1.4 and earlier:
>
>    http://effbot.org/zone/pil-decoder-jpeg-not-available.htm
>
> for 1.1.5, setting the JPEG_ROOT variable in the setup.py file should do
> the trick.  see comments in that file for details.
>
> </F>
>
>

Thanks for the link.  However, after completing the list of changes, and 
reconfiguring, remaking, rebuilding and reinstalling... still no luck.

I will try again tomorrow when I have regained a little bit of patience.  If 
there are any other links like this one out there I would love to give it a 
shot too.

Thanks for any help.






From wganz at texoma.net  Sun Oct  3 00:02:24 2004
From: wganz at texoma.net (Will Ganz)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 23:02:24 -0500
Subject: [newbie] Buying an introductory/reference text
In-Reply-To: <Mu5g9.1702$U_.1021@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <OPEDLDOFHCDKBPBIHMHFMEEACPAA.wganz@texoma.net>

I highly recommend "Core Python" and saw several at the "75% Off Bookstore"
for USD$4.99. Intend on going by there tomorrow to get another one since the
first one is almost worn out!

At that price, I almost bought a couple for the Perl evangelists in the
office.  ]8-)

:> -----Original Message-----
:> From: python-list-admin at python.org
:> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Brad Fonseca
:> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 2:00 PM
:> To: python-list at python.org
:> Subject: [newbie] Buying an introductory/reference text
:>
:>
:> Greetings!
:>
:> I'm looking for a few opinions on the above subject.  I'm a computer
:> science student who has had some introductory lectures on Python
:> and I've
:> done some very basic mucking around with.  I'm looking for a clear
:> reference and/or introductory text.  Any suggestions would be
:> nice.  I have
:> looked at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/IntroductoryBooks but
:> there appears to be a number of good books to choose from there.
:>
:> Regards,
:>
:> --
:> ---
:> Brad Fonseca
:> --
:> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
:>




From quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr  Fri Oct  8 16:25:42 2004
From: quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr (Pierre Quentel)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 22:25:42 +0200
Subject: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4478.1097134373.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4166F7C6.7050405@wanadoo.fr>

Brian van den Broek a ?crit :
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking for a stand alone Python wiki engine that does not require a 
> web server such as Apache or MS IIS. I have found such beasts in other 
> languages (e.g. <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EddiesWiki> in C++, and a couple 
> in Ruby), but none written in Python. A pointer to any that I've missed 
> would be most appreciated.
> 

Have you taken a look at Karrigell (http://karrigell.sourceforge.net) ? 
It's a simple and lightweight web framework, 100% Python, shipped with a 
built-in web server (well, two in fact, one based on SimpleHTTPServer 
and the other on asyncore/asynchat), although it can also work with 
Apache or Xitami

It comes with a wiki server demo which you can use once you've started 
the server

A+
Pierre


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 04:14:44 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:14:44 +0200
Subject: Database Connectivity
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1gl8by8.1ay6g301hrswe8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
   ...
> > >I want to develope a simple Database connectivity program with python.
> > >I want to use MS Access as a backend.
> 
>       Access, itself, is merely a GUI builder front-end. You are
> likely using M$ JET as the database engine.

Amen!  People keep making this mistake over and over and over again.
Access is a product Microsoft sells; Jet is one they give away for free;
etc, etc -- how CAN it be so hard to distinguish?!


> > accessed by many users at once.  PostgreSQL is a much more powerful
> > alternative, and version 8.0, coming soon, will run natively on 
> > Windows.  Of course, it is not as "user friendly" in the sense of having
> > pretty GUI tools, but since it sounds like you will be writing the GUI
> > in Python anyway, this may not matter.
> 
>       Other options: If one doesn't need full capabilities (just data
> tables and selects), MySQL... The former SAP-DB, now packaged as "MaxDB
> by MySQL"... An off-shoot of Interbase 6, Firebird.

...and if one MUST use a Microsoft engine (in some workplaces that's a
political necessity, disgusting as it may be), *at least* use MSDE, the
"Microsoft Data Engine" -- freely downloadable and redistributable
version (without GUI chrome) of the MS SQL Server small edition
(designed for no more than 5 connections at a time -- still better than
Jet, designed [if that's the word] for no more than _1_, ideally 0;-).
[[I believe you need a license of MS VStudio, Office, or other such
products, to enjoy the free license to MSDE legally -- check the details
out on Microsoft's site]].  MSDE may not be anywhere as good as the
others you're listing, but it sure beats Jet hands down!


Alex


From jhefferon at smcvt.edu  Mon Oct 18 11:28:01 2004
From: jhefferon at smcvt.edu (Jim Hefferon)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 08:28:01 -0700
Subject: Poll script in Python
References: <81a41dd.0410160259.4767918f@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5043.1097937424.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<81a41dd.0410161038.af422a0@posting.google.com>
	<a8dfce8c.0410162106.29dea3a7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <545cb8c2.0410180728.6caf79ea@posting.google.com>

matt.torment at gmail.com (Matthew K Jensen) wrote
> When in doubt, make your own :) !!!
That seems wasteful, although I admit that finding something that
exactly suits you can be hard.  I looked around for survey software a
while ago and didn't find any that worked for me, so I wrote some,
called Theodolite.  If you are interested in the blurb at
http://joshua.smcvt.edu/theo, I'd be glad for beta tester feedback
(This is not a permanent address: I haven't yet had the chance to
upload the material to a Sourceforge-like site.  If you mail me, I'll
tell you how to get it.)

Jim


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Oct 26 18:57:17 2004
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:57:17 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
In-Reply-To: <1098798679.22370.313.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
	<1098798679.22370.313.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <20041027085412.U52616@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Cliff Wells wrote:

> Rather that doing that, you might consider simply setting up a local
> IMAP server on your Linux box.  Have a program (such as fetchmail) pull
> down your POP3 email, filter it using procmail and feed it into the IMAP
> server so that you can then access it from anywhere.

I've been using Charles Cazabon's getmail (pure Python) for quite some
time in place of fetchmail.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen ACT 2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia


From davidf at sjsoft.com  Fri Oct 29 02:29:43 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:29:43 +0200
Subject: distutils and MSI
In-Reply-To: <417fe349$0$202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <u1xfkk00q.fsf@rk-speed-rugby.dk>
	<417fe349$0$202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <clso0n$duf$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Brian Elmegaard wrote:
> 
>> A little OT: What about making MSI installation files instead of .exe?
>> Is it a good idea to consider at all?
> 
> 
> I would always recommend creating MSI files over some proprietary .exe
> installers, as it allows for better customization, unattended
> installation, and network installations.
> 
> If you want to do that using Python, please have a look at my Python
> installer in the Tools/msi directory of Python 2.4b1.

I've meant to look into this but haven't had a chance
Is it possible to use this to create msi installers for python modules? 
Is there a distutils plugin to do this?
If so, :-) :-) :-) !

David


From mauriceling at acm.org  Tue Oct 19 19:22:49 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:22:49 GMT
Subject: reverse Jython
In-Reply-To: <1glwjc5.1n573ij1sh2nhiN%mark.asbach@post.rwth-aachen.de>
References: <4174aac5@news.unimelb.edu.au>
	<1glwjc5.1n573ij1sh2nhiN%mark.asbach@post.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <4175a1c7@news.unimelb.edu.au>

Mark Asbach wrote:

> If you need an interesting topic: why not write a just-in-time compiler
> for Python? 
> 
> There's already some interesting stuff in module "weave" and the pythonc
> from Jython, but having a python interpreter use (say) gcc at runtime to
> convert and probably optimize Python code to natively executable
> binaries, you could speed up Python to the max.
> 
I think another issue here is that Python bytecode is not stable, as 
everyone had said it. So unless a specification on that is present, 
implementing JIT compiler for Python is futile... in my opinions.

maurice


From chotty at freenet.de  Fri Oct  8 14:21:18 2004
From: chotty at freenet.de (Christian Otteneuer)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 20:21:18 +0200
Subject: [Zope] how to send email witch attachment in python
Message-ID: <ck6lr2$10eo$1@news.uni-koblenz.de>

Hello NG,

How can I send an email with an attachment from a python script?
My code so far:

mailhost = container.mailHost
mMsg = 'MessageText'
mTo = 'you at you.com'
mFrom = 'me at me.com'
mSubj = 'Subject'

This code sends me an email with 'Subject' and 'MessageText' .
After googling and reading in different tutorials, I found a way to 
implement it in dtml:

<dtml-sendmail smtphost="MailHost">
To: you at you.com
From: Me me at me.com
Subject: <dtml-var "var1">
<dtml-mime type="text/plain" encode="7bit">
Hi, please take a look at my resume.
<dtml-boundary type="application/octet-stream" disposition="attachment"
encode="base64" filename_expr="resume_file.getId()"><dtml-var
expr="resume_file">
</dtml-mime>
</dtml-sendmail>But how to do so in python only?Thanks alotChristian




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Oct  8 07:04:52 2004
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 04:04:52 -0700
Subject: Determining whether it's a file or a directory?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2004.10.08.09.39.09.841069@hotmail.com>
References: <pan.2004.10.08.09.39.09.841069@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <41667994$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Dfenestr8 wrote:
> os.listdir("path") returns the names of all the items in a directory ok,
> but I need to know whether the item is a file or a directory.
> 
> Can anybody tell me how this could be done?
Some others have shown you how to test if a file is a directory, as
well as how to get a separated list of files and directories, but
I'd like to point out a mistake you are making: you believe a name
is associated with either a file or a directory, but not both.  There
are already a few file systems where this is not true, and the trend
seems to be towards, rather than away from this.

The os.walk technique would automatically cope with this situation
(the same name could show up in both lists).  Using the os.path.isdir
technique, you are more likely to decide that "if something is a
directory, it is not a file (ie has no non-directory data)."

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com  Sat Oct 23 15:37:10 2004
From: drs at remove-to-send-mail-ecpsoftware.com (drs)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:37:10 GMT
Subject: simple recursion help
Message-ID: <Gpyed.320058$bp1.6526@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

Hi,  I am trying to find all lists of length x with elements a, b, and c.
To this end, I have created the class below, but it is not quite working and
I am having trouble figuring out what to change.  Does anyone have any
insight?

class c:
    def __init__(self):
        self.traits = 4 # number of list elements
        self.types = 3  # elements can be 0, 1, or 2

    def a(self):
        l = []
        for i in range(self.traits):
            l.append(self.b(str(i)))
        return l

    def b(self, s):
        if len(s) == self.types:
            return s
        for i in range(self.traits):
            return self.b(s + str(i))


i = c()
lst = i.a()


Thanks in advance,

-d




From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Oct 16 04:21:01 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:21:01 GMT
Subject: How to deal __getattr__
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5033.1097906354.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.5033.1097906354.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <NR4cd.5499$gy1.4387@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

limodou wrote:
> I want to compare the objects themself not the attributes of them. But
> it seems python invoke __getattr__ method, it's strange. How can I
> compare the object directly without calling __getattr__?

You need to know a bit more about Python's object model.

In Python, attributes and methods are fetched with the
same notation, using the dot, as "a.z"

If it's a function then doing a.z returns a "bound method".
That means it knows it's a method of the specific instance
a.  That's how a.z() gets passed 'a' as the "self" parameter.

When you ask for a == b Python does the following steps.
(It's slightly more complicated and a bit different,
if you had used new-style classes derived from "object".)

First see if a rich comparison is defined

   a.__eq__(b)

if that fails it tries the three-way comparison

   a.__cmp__(b)

if that fails it uses the result of

   id(a) == id(b)

See the first step?  That gets the '__eq__' property
of the instance a.  Because Python doesn't distinguish
at this level between attributes and methods it first
looks for the instance in a.__dict__.  That fails so
it uses the backup plan of calling __getattr__.  In
you case it succeeds and returns None.

So "a.__eq__" returns None for you.  The next step is
to call None(b) .  But that doesn't work because None
is not a callable object.

An exception is raised and that's why you see that
error message.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientic.com


From richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com  Tue Oct  5 02:40:16 2004
From: richardblackwood at cloudthunder.com (Richard Blackwood)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 02:40:16 -0400
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4315.1096953092.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tIq8d.3110$UP1.2698@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <416241D0.90509@cloudthunder.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> Richard Blackwood wrote:
>
>>> exec code, glbls, lcls
>>>
>>
>>
>> This is a cool language, I love code chunks!!
>
>
> Like I said with eval, DO NOT USE THIS!  It almost certainly
> means you're doing the wrong thing.  It's full of security
> holes and there are nearly always better ways to solve
> the underlying problem.
>

Why are you so fervently against eval, exec?  What sort of security 
holes?  Don't tell me, I'll look it up. 

>> How come Python always complains when I don't include the self 
>> parameter in an object method?  Your code doesn't work on my 
>> interpreter.
>
>
> Remember that pointer to asking smart questions?  Remember
> that part about reading the documentation?  Doing those
> would seriously help your understanding and help us know
> what you mean with "always complains" and "doesn't work."
>
>
It tells me I passed in two arguments when I only passed in one.

>> I know but that's a real bummer.  No way around that?
>
>
> Python is not a functional programming language.
>
> Do you want it because it's cool or because it's useful?
>
Cool = useful

>> So is the print statement ironed into the language and not a function?
>
>
> Documentation.
>
> Does it look like a function?
>
Yes it does.  Other language have them as functions (just funny looking 
one's like in this case).  Take Lua for example.  "require" is a method 
but it import the same way "import" does in Python (syntactically).

>
>>>> 22. Is the self parameter hidden from me as a programmer?  Can I 
>>>> hide/unhide it as I wish?
>>>
>>>
>>> It is not hidden, in fact, you get to name it...
>>>
>>> class foo:
>>>     def goo(I_AM_SELF, arg):
>>>         pass
>>>
>> Cool!
>
>
>
> DO NOT DO THAT EVER!
>
> Seriously not cool.
>

Would you like to explain why not?  Josiah didn't seem to have any 
qualms with it.

>> Not fully implemented, but I guess that will have to suffice.
>
>
> Is there any non-trivial language which is fully implemented
> for C#?
>
Sure, why don't you utilize Google?  LOL  No, seriously, there are a few.

>>> Python has no static typing.
>>>
>>
>> Argg!
>
>
> This is precisely why my first reply said this question
> was way too hard to answer briefly.  You claim experience with
> Smalltalk.  Smalltalk has no static typing either.  There
> are many essays available (and books no doubt) on all the
> nuances here.  You've used Ruby -- it's the same there too.
>
I use ObjC too, grief.

>
>> I'd like to be able to use a string as an integer without an explicit 
>> coerion on my part for example.
>
>
> NO!  Don't do that.  Bad code.  Subtle errors.
>
> Try Perl or Ruby instead.
>
Now your encouraging me not to use Python?

>
>> That is quite a shame, no modules for this either huh?
>
>
> It quite depends on your expectations of what design by
> contract, protocols, etc. means.  Do some research.  Hint:
> Google for 'python "design by contract"' and related topics.
>
Cameron provided me a link, most excellent.

> That's why I say it's easier to just read the docs rather
> than have people give you short answers that aren't useful
> without the entire context of how Python works.
>
>
>> What I actually meant was are there any facilities (built-in or 
>> modules) which allow for automatic compilation to C/C++/C#/D.  For 
>> example, particular Smalltalk distros compile to C as does ObjC.
>
>
> Yes.  But you'll never use them.  The problem you'll want
> to solve is "how do I call Python code from a ... library"
> or "how do I package Python as an executable" and not
> "how do I convert Python code into C".
>
> You are asking the wrong question.  You are asking about
> technique, not goal.
>
No, no, I want the C speed.

>>>> 43. Embedding variables in strings like: print "Hello, World. Time: 
>>>> #{Time.now}"
>>>
>>>
>>> t = time.asctime()
>>> print "Hello World %(t)s"%{'t':t}
>>> print "Hello World %(t)s"%locals()
>>>
>>
>> That is messy, exactly why I wanted the kind of clear embedding I 
>> gave an example for.  Oh well.
>
>
> You asked for "embedding variables" not embedding expressions.
> You got what you asked for, not what you wanted.  That's part
> of being able to ask the right question.  Remember that essay
> people suggested you read?
>
I gave a goddamn code example, grief.  How much more explicit do I need be?

>> Really?  Hmmmm, does anyone know of a bridge between Python and Ruby?
>
>
> Why not just use Ruby?  It seems to fit your search criteria
> much better.
>
>                 Andrew
>                 dalke at dalkescientific.com

Because Python is...well...more Pythonic.  I much prefer it (esp. 
whitespace).


From dthierbach at gmx.de  Sat Oct 23 14:25:53 2004
From: dthierbach at gmx.de (Dirk Thierbach)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:25:53 +0200
Subject: Events and file polling in a C extension
References: <20041023102528.566.0.NOFFLE@ID-7776.user.dfncis.de>
	<1098548686.827773@yasure>
Message-ID: <20041023182553.8F8.0.NOFFLE@ID-7776.user.dfncis.de>

Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:
> Quoth Dirk Thierbach <dthierbach at gmx.de>:

> So what would you do after select() returns with I/O ready?  Can
> the library then read and parse, and return the result?

Yes.

> I would stay away from threads unless you have a strong need for
> concurrency that isn't already satisfied with select/poll.  

So would I, but at the moment I don't see how, unless Python supports
some sort of event handling. 

> It seems to me the simplest thing by far would be the arrangement I
> suggested above,

Which one? Handling select in the main program? That doesn't work,
because...

> Python doesn't come with an event handler model, except when used
> with say a graphic toolkit - so for example Python/Tk will (I
> assume) look a lot like Tcl/Tk in this respect.

... I am exactly after something that looks like Python/Tk with
respect to Tk-bindings. I want to create an object, let the main
program do some bindings on that object, and then the main program
can go on to do whatever it likes. The object should dispatch any
events that arrive on the file descriptor by invoking the bindings,
just like the widget bindings in Python/Tk.

Of course I could create some sort of main loop myself, but that
seems inelegant and not portable. After all, Python/Tk doesn't
require you to call some sort of main loop, too.

- Dirk


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 21 02:33:46 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:33:46 +0200
Subject: Recursive function to develop permutations
References: <RiZcd.840$5i5.671@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<1glxc40.1kfx0apgrp3u3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<nnFdd.2986$5i5.1800@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1glzzdm.ye96kj1q3oesdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steve Goldman <steve_g at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Thanks to everyone for lots to think about.  I really like the concept of
> counting in base "X" as a model for this problem.

You're welcome.

> But now I have another question.  In the elegant recursive generator, below,
> the yield expression for the terminating condition is followed by a return
> statement.  Why is that necessary?  I know it is, because I tried taking it

It's not; a
    raise StopIteration
or putting the rest of the program in an 'else:' would be just as good.

> out with unhappy consequences.   I thought yield had the same effect as
> return, except that the function's state was "frozen" until the next
> iteration.

You need to terminate the recursion sooner or later.  To do that, you
must get a StopIteration exception raised.  That happens with the
appropriate raise statement, or a return, or "falling off the end of the
code", which is equivalent to a return.

I generally prefer return, as it's concise and avoids extra nesting.
But if you'd rather do if/else, you can code, for example:

def permute(Xs, N):
    if N > 0:
        for x in Xs:
            for sub in permute(Xs, N-1):
                yield [x]+sub
    else:
        yield []

If you do choose an if/else it seems to me things are more readable when
you arrange them this way (rather than with if N<=0, so the for in the
else).  Matter of tastes, of course.


Alex


From luismg at gmx.net  Tue Oct  5 22:55:21 2004
From: luismg at gmx.net (Neuruss)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 19:55:21 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
References: <416210AF.5060908@cloudthunder.com>	<20041004203353.ECBC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>	<mailman.4309.1096950087.5135.python-list@python.org>	<Ovp8d.3155$M05.74@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4311.1096951351.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<zJp8d.3165$M05.1860@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<278de0e.0410051203.3ac28eae@posting.google.com>
	<OUD8d.3656$M05.2085@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <278de0e.0410051855.ee7cd95@posting.google.com>

> ?  That would to me have been no better than saying "RTM".

I'm sorry Andew, I owe you an apology.
I should have posted my comment at the end of the thread instead as a
reply to you, because it was meant to all the people whose replies
were, in my oppinion, excessively harsh to the one who started the
thread, not addressed specially to you...


From miki.tebeka at zoran.com  Thu Oct 14 09:20:35 2004
From: miki.tebeka at zoran.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:20:35 +0200
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <864d3709041013162473ccf127@mail.gmail.com>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<864d3709041013162473ccf127@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041014132035.GM2544@zoran.com>

Hello Carlos,

[Maboroshi]
> > My question has to do with python and linux - I was interested in
> > finding out what it would take to reimplement the Linux Kernel in python

[Carlos]
> I can't see a project like that taking off, even if I would love to see
> it working.
In a diffrent language, MzScheme can boot as an OS on x86
(http://www.ccs.neu.edu/scheme/packages/mzscheme/) using OSKit
(http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/oskit/)

Bye.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka at gmail.com>
http://tebeka.spymac.net
The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 18 20:00:33 2004
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 17:00:33 -0700
Subject: printing with variable length of list
References: <a2972632.0410181055.50898f64@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0410181600.37cbc540@posting.google.com>

les_ander at yahoo.com (les ander) wrote in message news:<a2972632.0410181055.50898f64 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
> suppose I have a list
> d=[1.2 , 31.1, 1.001]
> in general i will not know the size of d
> however, I would like to print them out nicely in the row format
> such as:
> print "%-10f "* len(d) % d

Try:

print "%-10f " * len(d) % tuple(d)


From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Oct 26 16:32:42 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:32:42 GMT
Subject: using re: hitting recursion limit
In-Reply-To: <417eab49$1@nntp.zianet.com>
References: <417eab49$1@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <Kvyfd.3257$kM.442@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Erik Johnson wrote:
> pat = '(<table.*?%s.*?</table>)' % magic_string
> 
>     This seems about as simple as a "real-world" RE can get. If I cut down
> the web page to about 150 lines, this works, but that's not practical - the
> table I need to parse can easily gro to over 1000 lines.

Another option is to use assertion checks.  The following seems to work

 >>> text = """
...
... Blah blah blah.
... <table id="foo">
... asdfasdfadfasdfasdfaf asdfasdfadfasdfasdfaf asdfasdfadfasdfasdfaf
... werwlkejr wljr wklerwlerwerwuoi dofg dif poritertkle ggkdfjgdlg
... q u f jkh gertwerkjshk klajw h jhkrjesdfoisdjf sjhdfkjhwer
... werwlkejr wljr wklerwlerwerwuoi dofg dif poritertkle ggkdfjgdlg
... werwlkejr wljr wklerwlerwerwuoi dofg dif poritertkle ggkdfjgdlg
... werwlkejr wljr wklerwlerwerwuoi dofg dif poritertkle ggkdfjgdlg
... werwlkejr wljr wklerwlerwerwuoi hello dif poritertkle ggkdfjgdlg
... </table>
... """
 >>> import re
 >>> magic_string = re.escape("hello")
 >>> pat = re.compile(
...  r"<table (|(.(?!</table>)(?!%s))*.)%s(|(.(?!</table>))*.)</table>"
..      % (magic_string, magic_string), re.DOTALL)
 >>> m = pat.search(text)>>> m.start(0)
18
 >>> m.end(0)
490
 >>> text[m.end(0)-10:m.end(0)]
'g\n</table>'
 >>>

The .(?! ... ) pattern consumes all characters that don't
have the ... immediately afterwards.  So the first big group
skips all characters that don't have magic_string or </table>
immediately afterwards, then it requires the magic_string,
then skips all characters that don't have '</table>' immediately
afterwards, then consumsed the </table>'

The .) is to consume the character which does immediately
follow with the desired pattern.

The (| is for the case when, say, "</table>" immediately
follows magic_string.


>     One question is, "Does getting this error actually mean I have hit my
> process' stack memory limit or is there possibly some artificial recursion
> limit set in front of that?"

It's an artificial recursion limit set to make sure you don't bust your
system's stack.  I think the re engine respects sys.setrecursionlimit().

In your case you have one stack frame for every character, so if
your current limit is 150 characters then you'll need to double the
stack limit to hit 300 character, etc.  You should consider some
other solution.

> It hits this error basically "immediately", so it seems
> unlikely to me that it has actually use all of the machiens memory, or even
> all of my process' memory in under a tenth of a second:

The stack space is a lot smaller than the heap space.  On my
OS X box I only have 8M of stack by default.

% limit
cputime         unlimited
filesize        unlimited
datasize        6144 kbytes
stacksize       8192 kbytes
coredumpsize    0 kbytes
memoryuse       unlimited
descriptors     256
memorylocked    unlimited
maxproc         100
%

 > RE definitely seems like the fast and
> painless (or rather, less painful) way to go here.  So, short of telling me
> to use 2.3 or a way I can reconfigure what the recursion limit is,
> suggestions about smarter ways to pick out a table under those conditions
> are welcomed.

An HTML parser is a better bet.  HTML is just over the border of
what's parsable by HTML -- it works, but only if you can make some
strong assertions about the orgianization of your HTML.  (Eg, that
characters aren't represented by character entities, that whitespace
will be as you expect, and more.)

Have you considered  BeautifulSoup, ElementTree, or using
Python's sgmllib?  See the writing of Mark Pilgrim for using
the last in his FeedParser
   http://sourceforge.net/projects/feedparser/

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From redhog at takeit.se  Fri Oct 29 13:56:57 2004
From: redhog at takeit.se (Egil M?ller)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 10:56:57 -0700
Subject: Becoming Unicode Aware
References: <6f402501.0410270256.13cf5727@posting.google.com>
	<2u9dpvF27biksU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <b0afa8dd.0410290956.14b7d5de@posting.google.com>

> Unfortunately the http standard seems to lack a specification how form data
> encoding is to be transferred. But it seems that most browser which
> understand a certain encoding your page is delivered in will use that for
> replying.

Fourtunately, this is utter bullshit :)

Send the Content-Type http header to the client, with the value
"text/html; charset=UTF-8". You may have to send it both as an HTTP
header and as a meta http-equiv-HTML tag to get it to work with all
browsers though. Usually (I don't knwo if it is really in the standard
that the client have to behave this way), the client will reply in the
same encoding as you sent your page with the form. Anyway, the client
will prolly set a similar tag upon reply, but I don't know about that,
and don't care as just expecting the same encoding works for all major
browsers (mozilla, IE, opera).


From http  Thu Oct  7 23:39:05 2004
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 20:39:05 -0700
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted Data
	Chunk Efficiently
References: <ba1e306f.0410050212.3b592313@posting.google.com>
	<2sgc66F1enc5nU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<ba1e306f.0410071919.7defa4a9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xhdp5c206.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine) writes:
> Another problem is, the list update action could take a long time and
> big memory. The list could shrink and expand. Do I have to sort them
> all in memory and then update the textfile _everytime_ it's changed?

I don't understand this thread.  If you're trying to implement a real
system, why don't you use MySQL?  You're at nowhere near the traffic
level where that approach runs out of gas.


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 31 14:00:07 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:00:07 GMT
Subject: "number-in-base" ``oneliner''
References: <1gmfz0k.a3xefz1xzms61N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41852310.1271953001@news.oz.net>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:58:47 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>I hesitate a bit to post this, but... on the Italian Python NG, somebody
>was asking whether there was any way to convert an integer number x into
>a string which represents it in an arbitrary base N (given a sequence
>with a len of N that gives the digits to use) as "a single expression".
>
>I haven't found a really general way, much less a clear one, but, the
>best I have so far is...:
>
>def number_in_base(x, N, digits, maxlen=99):
>    return '-'[x>=0:] + (
>        (x and ''.join([digits[k%N] for i in range(maxlen) 
>                        for k in [abs(x)//N**i] if k>0])[::-1]
>        ) or digits[0])
>
>Besides the lack of clarity, the obvious defect of this approach is that
>darned 'maxlen' parameter -- but then, since I can have only a 'for',
>not a 'while', in a list comprehension or generator expression, and I
>don't think recursion qualifies as 'a single expression'...:-(
>
>Anyway, improvements and suggestions welcome, thanks!

Not sure if I got filtered out replying to myself, what with an accidental dupe
and all the incremental changes and corrections ;-/ Anyway, I guess you could say
there's a "while" implicit in iter(f, sentinel) that you _can_ do within
a list comprehension ;-)

To sum up, my final version (hope it doesn't still have a bug ;-) was:

def number_in_base(x, N=10, digits='0123456789ABCDEF'):
    return '-'[:x<0]+''.join([digits[r] for q in [abs(x)]
            for q,r in iter(lambda:divmod(q, N), (0,0))][::-1]) or digits[0]

BTW, will anything that works in a list comprehension work in a generator expression
(assuming one does not depend on the generator expression having leftover outside
side effect bindings like the LC version)?

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Oct 28 12:13:28 2004
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:13:28 -0300
Subject: FTP anomaly
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D053C7B0B@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

[hecull at gmail.com]

#- I'm trying to automate some things at work and something I 
#- do a lot if
#- FTP some files back and forth.  I've got this all done in python just
#- fine, but I noticed a huge difference in file sizes.  One particular
#- binary file comes over at roughly two megs when I transfer it via ftp
#- from the command line (running XP.)  When I get it via my python
#- script, it's nine megs!  Any clue why?  I haven't tried 
#- using the file
#- in my work because I don't want to break anything.

What's the size of the original file?

The same happens if you transfer a 500KB file? 100KB? 10KB? 100B?

What are the differences between the files? (better to start here with the
100B one, ;).

.	Facundo
-------------- next part --------------
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 03:17:10 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:17:10 +0200
Subject: Using tuples correctly?
References: <mailman.4680.1097466830.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glij0x.16e7tu0vk6g9eN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

BJ?rn Lindqvist <bjourne at gmail.com> wrote:
   ...
> So why aren't there a tuple-with-named-attributes type in python? So

Good question.  Tuple-like thingies with named attrs have been
introduced reasonably recently (e.g. as the return types for modules in
the stdlib such as time and os.stat) but not generalized.

> you could write stuff like this:
> 
> return (r: 10, g: 20, b: 30) or maybe return (.r 10, .g 20, .b 30)
> 
> Clearly, I must be thinking wrong or it would already be implemented
> in python. Atleast there would have been a PEP for it. Maybe I'm just

I think it's just that nobody has yet bothered to write a PEP (and do
all the research and experimentation that goes with it).

> using tuples incorrectly and that is why my code uses index access to
> tuples? Someone must have already thought about this and they must
> have discussed it and quickly realized that this is A Very Bad Thing.
> But why?  I'm new, so please dont get to angry if the answer is
> obvious.

It's not obvious to _me_.  In Python 2.5 (too late for 2.4) we COULD
conceivably have such a type, if somebody comes up with a _very_
convincing design for it (the use case is already pretty well
established by the precedents in os.stat and module time, we only need
an obviously great design;-).  New syntax for it, I'd rule out (smells
like the language will be near-frozen in 2.4 -> 2.5, as it was in 2.2 ->
2.3 -- I could be guessing wrong on this, of course).

Something like tuple(r=10, g=20, b=30) won't wash because keyword args
are passed as a dict -- orderless.  Pity, because apart from this it
would be neat... tuple would have to keep a cache of tuple subtypes
indexed by attrnames ('r', 'g', 'b') to avoid making a new type every
time, but that's OK, I think.  Maybe an optional first parameter giving
the ordering, as in tuple(('r','g','b'), r=10,g=20,b=30)?  It being an
exeception if a different ordering is specified for a set of attribute
names which already exists, and default being 'any order you please'...?
But it feels klunky...:-(.  Anyway, this is why the PEP process exists
-- so, a Paladin of the new idea should ask Barry (I think he's still
Pep Czar) for a PEP number and start drafting one.

Use cases and implementation pretty obvious, nothing but a new design to
find... seems pretty simple, as PEPs go...


Alex


From xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net  Tue Oct 26 16:44:20 2004
From: xnews2 at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 20:44:20 GMT
Subject: [warning: 99% OT] does anything like this exist ?...
References: <Xns958E9F773A147PaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.74>
	<mailman.5513.1098804135.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns958EE782258FAPaCmAnRDLM@212.27.42.73>

Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> said : 

> Andrew Dalke contributed a program to the SpamBayes wiki that does 
> exactly this: 
> 
> "This program, sb_culler, uses SpamBayes to run a POP3 email culler. 
> It connects to my email servers every few minutes, downloads the emails, 
> classifies each one, and deletes the spam and viruses.  (It makes a 
> local copy of the spam, just in case.)" 

Wo-ow ! Talk about being spoiled... :-)
Of course I suspected I was not alone in wanting to do this, and that 
someone had already done it. But to see it described so exactly (only 
better and in fewer words), and done in python too, and using Spambayes, no 
less... well, I hadn't dared expect that much. Sort of makes me regret not 
asking up front for that flashy pink finish and the leather upholstery, too 
:)

Actually I should feel ashamed : such a happy ending will undoubtedly 
unleash a tsunami of rabid OT posters on this last peaceful corner of a 
beleaguered Usenet, which will subsequently collapse in the next hundred 
days, taking down with it the Internet and civilization as we know it. I'm 
really sorry folks...

Meanwhile, thanks a lot for the pointer Richie !

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/ 


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Oct 21 21:07:50 2004
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:07:50 -0700
Subject: Some more notes
In-Reply-To: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10ngn6n6tgd5k28@corp.supernews.com>

bearophile wrote:

>I think some things are better in Delphi/Pascal 
>

They may well be better _in_ Delphi/Pascal.  That doesn't mean that 
adding them into Python will make Python a better language.  (I love 
garlic.  I love chocolate.  I do not want to eat chocolate-covered 
garlic cloves, nor garlic-flavored chocolate bars.)

>1) The "print" and "printf" pair without automatically added spaces
>between arguments, and with or without automatic newline, instead of
>the current "print" command. Because adding lots of "+str()+" isn't
>good for me (there's sys.stdout.write, but it's not built-in).
>  
>

But Python *does* already have string interpolation: print "%s%s%s" % 
('one', 'two', 'three')

This is more flexible than printf() would be, because it can be used to 
generate strings even without printing.  C had to resort to creating a 
sprintf() function that did printf()-like formatting without actually 
printing; Python made that a built-in operation on strings.  I find that 
I use this all the time, and never worry about print statements adding a 
space after a comma because I don't need to use commas.

>2) Adding "case var of:" can be useful.
>  
>

Not sure exactly what this is, but if you're referring to a case/switch 
construct: using a dict of functions is (IMO) a better and cleaner way 
of implementing the same idea.

>3) "do while" (or "repeat until") can also be added, it's useful.
>  
>

Somewhat useful, sure, but it's not hard to achieve the same thing with 
'while 1: if cond: break' .  Python's designer made a deliberate 
decision to minimize number of different types of loop structures to 
use, since they tend to be very easy to convert between and fewer types 
means less to learn.  So we have two -- one that loops based on the 
status of a condition, and one that iterates over each object in a 
sequence.  Minor variations on these themes are (according to Python 
philosophy) better done by explicitly stating the rules, rather than by 
creating new syntax for each variation.

>4) Maybe really raw strings RR"" can be added to avoid problems with
>file paths on Win :-]
>  
>

Not really, because Python doesn't know what's supposed to be a file 
path and what isn't.  Unless, of course, you are explicit about it, 
which means using os.path.  In which case, you have already avoided 
those problems using standard strings and don't need to worry about 
whether a string is raw or not, let alone inventing a new "extra-raw" 
string.

>5) Inside function definitions, assignments of mutable types like this
>can be forbidden and seen as errors by the interpreter:
>def func(a=[1,2]):
>  
>

Except that having mutable types be shared this way can be a useful 
feature.  It's approximately the same thing as (in C/Java) declaring a 
local variable to be static.

>6) Given:
>a = [1]
>a += [2]
>a = a + [3]
>The first assignment extends the list, and second creates a new list
>and rebinds it. Why such difference for operations that look the same?
>Isn't a kind of "error" to do different things with quite similar
>looking commands?
>  
>

The idea of using += is that it modifies in-place.  In-place 
modification isn't meaningful for immutable types, but it can be very 
useful for mutable types.  Having a += x mean in-place modification 
while a = a + x creates a new object allows both options to be easily 
accessible without function-call syntax.  Having both of them create a 
new object means that one must call a.extend(x) in order to get in-place 
modification.  And I'd guess that the vast majority of cases where += is 
used, in-place modification is the preferable behavior anyhow.

>7) There's something that I don't understand. I'm not a OOP purist,
>but finding functions like this beside normal methods seems odd to me:
>len(s) length of s
>min(s) smallest item of s
>max(s) largest item of s
>For uniformity they can be:
>s.len()
>s.min()
>s.max()
>etc.
>  
>

You're apparently more of an OOP purist than Python is...  Having these 
as functions instead of methods is much simpler for Python's dynamic 
type system.  For example, new sequence types don't need to define min() 
and max() methods -- the existing builtins just work.  It also means 
that implementation details of the function can be improved without 
requiring a rewrite of every class that has ever defined a len() method, 
and that Python can split the work of the function between the function 
itself and one or more helper methods that might (or might not) be 
implemented on any given class.

Remember, there's a lot more to good language design than just "Ooh, 
this piece might be useful!"  You also have to consider how all the 
pieces fit together, and how certain constellations of pieces interact 
with other constellations of pieces.  Bulldozer blades, furrowers, and 
manure-spreaders are all very useful devices when attached to the right 
vehicle, but you wouldn't want them on your commuter car, right?  Much 
better to stick with a small subset of "useful devices" which fit 
together in a consistent and (most importantly) practical way.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From agriff at tin.it  Wed Oct 20 02:07:56 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:07:56 GMT
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<mailman.5158.1098169446.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fkvbn09hv3n62p2p0dplpuqbm8iu15lla8@4ax.com>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 02:57:58 -0400, Stephen Waterbury
<golux at comcast.net> wrote:

>Will it be 2D or 3D (3D I
>would assume), and what kind of geometry engine?
>Probably one of the open-source ones that already have
>a Python API, no?

It's 3D+2D and also covers parts that are not strictly
CAD/CAM but that are quite interconnected to the CAD.
However it's not a mechanical CAD (it's for the shoe
industry) and the problems to be solved are completely
different.

The geometry part in particular is simpler from a
mathematical point of view, but contains complications
that are not present in a mechanical CAD (everything is
parametrized to the size of the shoe, and in somewhat
complex ways). Also another big difference is the
intended audience, from which you can expect a much
lower experise level about computers: the user interface
plays a *central* role.

Andrea


From ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com  Fri Oct 22 15:43:30 2004
From: ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:43:30 GMT
Subject: backslash plague
References: <2tt4b2F24cffeU1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Cpded.16838$sO5.9900@fe1.texas.rr.com>

"Luis P. Mendes" <luisXX_lupe2XX at netvisaoXX.pt> wrote in message
news:2tt4b2F24cffeU1 at uni-berlin.de...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> hi,
>
> I've already read many pages on this but I'm not able to separate the
> string 'R0\1.2646\1.2649\D' in four elements, using the \ as the
separator.
>
> a='R0\1.2644\1.2344\D'
> re.sub(r'\'','ff',a)  does nothing
> and why must I write two '' after the \?  If I hadn't used r I would
> understand...
>
> how should I do it?
>
> Luis

Problem 1:
Did you perhaps intend:
    a = r'R0\1.2644\1.2344\D'
Otherwise, your string contains this: "R0?.2644?.2344\D" - the \1 sequence
is interpreted to mean "ascii character 1", which is the ASCII <SOH>.

Problem 2: "why must I write two '' after the \?"
Even raw strings cannot handle a backslash as the final character, as this
is interpreted as being an escaped quotation character.  Your assignment to
a above is a good candidate for raw strings, but futile for '\\' etc.  (See
next.)

Problem 3:
If you are trying to re.sub the delimiting backslashes, then you need to
double-double them for re to process them correctly.

Try this:

a = r'R0\1.2644\1.2344\D'
bslash = '\\'
re_bslash = '\\\\'
print a.split( bslash )
print re.sub( re_bslash, 'ff', a )

gives:
['R0', '1.2644', '1.2344', 'D']
R0ff1.2644ff1.2344ffD


-- Paul




From mauriceling at acm.org  Wed Oct 13 18:42:30 2004
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice Ling)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:42:30 +1000
Subject: differentially loading a class at runtime
In-Reply-To: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F7C@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F7C@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <416DAF56.3080400@acm.org>

Robert Brewer wrote:

>The way I do it:
>http://www.aminus.org/rbre/python/xray.py
>
>Search for "dynamically import" and you'll find lots of other ways.
>
>
>Robert Brewer
>MIS
>Amor Ministries
>fumanchu at amor.org
>
>  
>
Thank you. It really helps.

Although you have very kindly placed the codes in public domain, I still 
wish to seek your permission for using your codes in my thesis work, by 
virtue of courtesy.

Cheers
Maurice
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From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Oct 21 12:19:32 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:19:32 -0400
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
In-Reply-To: <cl8kd7$9rm$1@news.imp.ch>
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch> <2tpq8vF20rf1rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cl8fe5$43h$1@news.imp.ch>
	<cl8jo7$rm$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<cl8kd7$9rm$1@news.imp.ch>
Message-ID: <cl8nhr$edk$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>

Daniel Mueller wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> Why?  Do you have any evidence that you have a performance problem
> 
> Yeah i know that /proc is a virtual filesystem. And yes i know that the 
> files always have the pressent timestamp.

Then we can at least dispense with any kind of "read changes only"
concept, can't we?  You clearly have to read the entire file and
compare it with the previous file to know exactly what has changed.
Or read the file and parse it and compare the parsed results.  I'm
unclear what other approach could be conceived of...

> Well the application uses up to 10% of CPU power with every poll... is 
> that a normal amount??

Sure... actually I wouldn't be surprised if my program appeared
to take 100% of CPU while processing the data after reading the
files...  to do otherwise would be abnormal.  What I'd be focusing
on, however, was for *how long* it did so.

-Peter


From ville at spammers.com  Mon Oct 11 09:06:44 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 16:06:44 +0300
Subject: [ANN] Boo 0.4.3 - python-like language for .NET/Mono
References: <8PGdnS7wN_uwg_rcRVn-qw@comcast.com>
	<XdydnXcmO-NRJ_TcRVn-uA@giganews.com>
	<MNCdnR9olpAhWvTcRVn-pg@comcast.com>
	<JcmdnQnFT5NhH_fcRVn-tg@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <du74ql1flp7.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Istvan" == Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> writes:

    Istvan> What I referred to was that the reason IronPython got so
    Istvan> much interest in this group is not because it is a
    Istvan> *python-like* language on the CLI but because it aims to
    Istvan> be *python* on the CLI. Big difference IMO.

In some respects Boo is *more* python than Jython (which is lagging
behind CPython). 

    Istvan> A "hey, it looks like python but it is not really python"
    Istvan> approach has little chance of capturing a python
    Istvan> programmer's imagination. It just muddies the water and
    Istvan> sows confusion among potential adopters.

I dunno, I don't see Boo any less interesting technically than
IronPython. In fact many would consider it *more* interesting, because
of the introduction of type inference. IronPython has more buzz going
for it, but a lot of it can be explained by non-technical issues.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca  Thu Oct  7 03:32:49 2004
From: bvande at po-box.mcgill.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 03:32:49 -0400
Subject: webserverless Python Wiki Engines: do they exists?
Message-ID: <4164F121.1010203@po-box.mcgill.ca>

Hi all,

I've just a few hours looking via google, http://c2.com/cgi/wiki, and 
the python.org wiki, but haven't had luck, so it's time to ask:

I'm looking for a stand alone Python wiki engine that does not require a 
web server such as Apache or MS IIS. I have found such beasts in other 
languages (e.g. <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EddiesWiki> in C++, and a couple 
in Ruby), but none written in Python. A pointer to any that I've missed 
would be most appreciated.

To give some idea of my requirements: Python is the only programming 
language that I know anything to speak of, and my skills are modest. 
(Python is a thesis procrastination projec and I've done no web 
programming to date.) I have an itch in the PIM domain, and I am wanting 
to find a project as a basis to build upon that is 1) appropriate in 
scope/complexity for a relative newcomer and 2) would enable me to have 
a personal wiki (not exposed to the web). I am running WindowsMe, and 
Python 2.3.4. I don't mind if I have to get some extra packages, but I 
definitely don't want to have to come to terms with something like Zope. 
(One day, perhaps, but not too soon.)

If there were one that used ReStructuredText for markup, that would be 
great. But at this point, I think I'd be better off not restricting the 
pool :-)

Thanks for any pointers. Best,

Brian vdB


From grante at visi.com  Mon Oct 25 14:10:49 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 18:10:49 GMT
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<clj6c3$ge1$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<417d1fd7$0$45534$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<05-dnQf-wsk1suDcRVn-sQ@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <417d41a9$0$511$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-25, Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote:

>> Makes my _source_code_ a derived work, and therefore must be
>> GPL'd?  That just doesn't sound right.
>
> Well doesn't your work derive some functionality
> from the imported code?

Not until it's actually been imported.  That doesn't happen
until runtime.

> Does your code work without the import?

That depend's on your definition of "work".

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  If I had a Q-TIP, I
                                  at               could prevent th' collapse
                               visi.com            of NEGOTIATIONS!!


From sjmaster at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 12:37:52 2004
From: sjmaster at gmail.com (SM)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 09:37:52 -0700
Subject: Re-raising the right exception
Message-ID: <6542462a.0410210837.29ed3e0f@posting.google.com>

try:
    x = 1/0
except ZeroDivisionError:
    print "caught ZeroDivisionError"
    try:
        name_error
    except NameError:
        print "caught NameError"
    raise

According to the Python Language Reference
http://docs.python.org/ref/raise.html
'raise' re-raises the last expression that was active in the current
scope. Here apparently "scope" means some sort of lexical scope,
because this program terminates with a NameError exception and not a
ZeroDivisionError.

It seems useful to have a way to raise the exception that is currently
being handled (ZeroDivisionError in this case) and not any exception
that happened to be caught earlier in the current exception handler.
For example,

try:
    network.command()
except:
    try:
        network.close()
    except:
        pass
    raise

I want to make a network call, and if it raises an exception, I want
to close the network connection before allowing the exception to
propagate up the stack. However, trying to close the network
connection might itself raise an exception, and I don't care about
that exception; I want to send the original exception. Apparently the
way to do this is:

try:
    network.command()
except Exception, bob:
    try:
        network.close()
    except:
        pass
    raise bob


From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Oct 19 04:26:41 2004
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 10:26:41 +0200
Subject: By value or by reference?
References: <OkRcd.157598$35.7725273@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <tyfsm8b9kqm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"Riccardo Rossi" <riccardo.rorssi76 at email.it> writes:

> How does Python pass arguments to a function? By value or by reference?

[Or maybe "by name", or even "by need" ?]

Don't take anyone's word for it. Check for yourself.

Here's a program that tells you the answer. Should be trivially
translatable to many other languages.

========================================================================
def passCheck(b):
    b = 'new'

def doesThisLanguageBindByValue(language):
    a = 'original'
    b = a
    b = 'new'
    if a == 'original':
        print "%s assigns by value" % (language)
    else:
        print "%s does not assigns by value" % (language)

    a = 'original'
    passCheck(a)
    if a == 'original':
        print "%s passes by value" % (language)
    else:
        print "%s does not pass by value" % (language)

doesThisLanguageBindByValue('Python')
========================================================================



Caveat: Once you've convinced yourself that the answer is "by value",
do notice that the values are references, so you can give the
impression that you have by-reference semantics, by passing or
assigning a mutable object and mutating it. But the _binding_
mechanism is most certainly "by value".


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 06:18:19 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:18:19 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
	<4162b870$0$59523$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ck0emf$1ar$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
Message-ID: <1gl8hw3.prjjmp1mwz4nvN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

"Sam G." <nospam:samuelgay at yahoo.fr> wrote:

> OK, a mistake from me, I read more on GIL to understand well. Thanks to
> correct me.
> 
> But if only one thread per interpreter could run at a time, in multicore
> two (or more) thread can't run at the same time. In performance the 
> result is almost the same : if the server has nothing else than running
> python (not real i know, just to be simple), only one core work...
> 
> Not very good for Zope, as multicore are for the near future...

Unless Zope can use multiple processes (I don't know whether it can or
not), the trouble's already there -- multi-CPU computers are already
widespread and have been for a while (all PowerMacs except the
entry-point ones, and I believe all Mac Servers, have been using
multiple CPUs for years now).  It does, however, appear to me that
structuring a server application into multiple processes rather than
into multiple threads shouldn't be that big a deal anyway.  And with
multiple processes you can exploit multiple CPUs or cores easily.


Alex


From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Oct  4 17:59:19 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Ville Vainio)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:59:19 +0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct  4)
Message-ID: <mailman.4299.1096948749.5135.python-announce-list@python.org>

QOTW:  "...then we get a signal through, then various miracles occur, and
the conclusion is, 'You mean it only takes thirteen lines of code to do
that?  Our software folks said it's not possible.'   
    Cameron Laird, on his typical experience with industrial automation projects

"In fact what you'd really like is a 'resumption' object created by raising
the exception, that you can pass control to at any time, sort of like
yielding from a generator.  Maybe you're getting deja vu now, since this is
basically what Stackless Python continuations were."
    Paul Rubin, on the idea of resumable exceptions


    Marco Aschwanden and others weigh the virtues of the commercial Python
    IDEs WingIDE and Komodo.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.3996.1096354841.5135.python-list%40python.org
    
    Thomas wonders about the speed of getting a list of directories via
    os.listdir() and os.path.isdir(), and gets suggestions for interesting
    platform specific optimizations.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=ikrfl05b77p2jlbrp3kehvf5o3u8jp35od%404ax.com
    
    Jacek Generowicz is looking for a metaclass that would allow
    introducing several methods with the same name in a class, spawning a
    long and educational thread about metaclasses and learning a simpler
    way of achieving the goal using the upcoming decorator syntax.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=tyfekkoeyk2.fsf%40pcepsft001.cern.ch
    
    Bishara Gabriel publishes a proposal aiming to introduce Python and
    object oriented approach to the realm of social sciences.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.4083.1096472628.5135.python-list%40python.org
    
    Srijit Kumar Bhadra posts a version of the same program using
    PythonNet, IronPython and Boo, showcasing the similarity in the way
    code is written.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=221d8dbe.0409302041.3798265d%40posting.google.com
    
    Connelly Barnes has written "htmldata", a module that can convert html
    documents to basic Python data structures and back.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.4170.1096616953.5135.python-list%40python.org
    
    Martin Maney relays information about the Python slant of Ubuntu,
    the Debian-derivative that has been gathering lots of users and
    attention even before the official release.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cjmc42%24420%241%40wheel2.two14.net
    
    Wolfgang Keller can't find the libraries he needs for industrial
    control applications. A discussion about the sorry state of software
    for industrial control in general, and the suitability of Python in
    particular ensues. People actually seem to have plans for improving
    the situation.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg%24.dlg%4040tude.net
    
    Alia Khouri needs to "sell" Python to his company.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=40a939c9.0410021235.623eb6f6%40posting.google.com
    
    Andrew Kuchling would like to see the focus of Python development
    moving away from hacking the interpreter and towards improving the
    standard library. 
        http://www.amk.ca/diary/archives/cat_python.html#003382
    
    Paul Rubin, Nick Craig-Wood, et al. exhibit experts' thoughts on
    sorting and memory use.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=b73a0c321d8c4c5b

    Larry Bates argues that we shouldn't curtail the life of
    "debugging" code.  Steve Holden, Ian Parker, and others provide
    examples, and consider concrete uses of assert() and __debug__.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=aaf241b357c6f1b


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
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From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct 13 19:24:48 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:24:48 -0300
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041013162473ccf127@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:32:01 -0700, Maboroshi <nobody at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello
> 
> My question has to do with python and linux - I was interested in
> finding out what it would take to reimplement the Linux Kernel in python
> basically just taking the source code from linux and rewriting it in
> python Would this idea make sense to do - if so what would be the
> benefits of doing this and in what way would this not be a good idea

To put it simply, it does not make sense, in its pure form. Linux is
written in C for a lot of good reasons: portability, need to access
the hardware, and performance comes to mind. Besides that, Linux is
Posix compliant and emulates Unix system calls to a large extend, and
that also makes C a natural choice. To do a similar implementation in
Python would be similar to try to use a knife to sculpt a marble piece
-- it's the wrong tool for the job.

Now, let me re-state your question in a broader sense. Is it possible
to write an OS using a language such as Python? Yes. But the resulting
OS will surely be different from Linux -- by design it would be a
completely different beast. Some parts would still be written in C and
assembler, because it needs to access the hardware, and also for
performance reasons. But an API could be devised to allow higher-level
functions to be written in Python, while calling the low-level
C+assembler stuff. But as I said, it's _so_ completely different from
anything else in use today as to make it pretty much a theorethical or
academic exercise with little practical use. I can't see a project
like that taking off, even if I would love to see it working.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Oct 14 10:39:25 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:39:25 +0200
Subject: installing mysqldb errors
References: <416DAF15.2030202@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <ckm2uq$ile$1@sea.gmane.org>

"matthew collins" wrote:

> trying to install mysqldb 1.0 and receiving a LOT of errors during the process.
>
> following the directions of by
> export mysqlversion="3.23.58"
> export mysqlclient="mysqlclient"
> export mysqloptlibs=""
> python setup.py build
>
> after the 'python setup.py build' line, i get errors such as
>
> _mysql.c:1375: warning: implicit declaration of function `mysql_insert_id'
> _mysql.c: At top level:
> _mysql.c:1386: error: syntax error before '*' token
> _mysql.c:1388: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype

is that the *first* error you got, or might it be that you got lots of complaints
about missing files long before that?  something like, say:

_mysql.c:41:19: mysql.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:42:26: mysqld_error.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:43:20: errmsg.h: No such file or directory

if so, you simply don't have the mysql client development files on your machine, or
you have them in a location where the setup script cannot find them.

</F> 





From rupole at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 18 18:57:29 2004
From: rupole at hotmail.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:57:29 -0400
Subject: Still problems with DLL
References: <0jRcd.157581$35.7724821@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <41744859_5@127.0.0.1>


A lot of ActiveX controls require that they be hosted in full-fledged 
container.
See \pythonwin\pywin\demos\ocx for examples using Pythonwin as a host,
or you can also run them in IE and access the object thru the document
object model.

The only error msg I can remember seeing when a container was required was
something like 'Catastrophic failure'.

       Roger



"Roger Irwin" <noemail at spam.net> wrote in message 
news:0jRcd.157581$35.7724821 at news4.tin.it...
>I am using pythoncom to get access to an Autmoation DLL. I can get the 
>typelibrary loaded, get a class of the object, get a module which wraps the 
>class, and a lot of other things.
>
> But I **can't** create any actual instances of the objects contained.
>
> Is there a special procedure for getting an 'instance' of an Active X 
> object?
> 




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Oct 13 03:25:32 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:25:32 +0200
Subject: Embedding: Howto get object's dictonary
References: <ckik0p$hmi$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <ckil5a$na7$1@sea.gmane.org>

Oliver Eichler wrote:

> having a PyObject pointer to a python object, how can I get the object's
> dictionary, if there is any. There seems to be _PyObject_GetDictPtr() but
> this looks quite like a internal "you must not use it".

I'd say it's more of an "be very careful", along the lines of _PyString_Resize,
_PyTuple_Resize, and other functions that can cause all sorts of trouble if you
use them carelessly.

(note btw that the function returns a pointer to the dictionary pointer, not the
dictionary itself)

</F> 





From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Wed Oct  6 09:16:30 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 13:16:30 GMT
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <1gl8kea.1i8zbyrjryq6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
	<5Wu8d.25573$H11.796921@twister1.libero.it>
	<1gl8cxp.1bwobhn1emgfx1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2JP8d.26848$N45.697634@twister2.libero.it>
	<1gl8kea.1i8zbyrjryq6N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OeS8d.27148$N45.702067@twister2.libero.it>

Alex Martelli ha scritto:

> 
> Exactly because of this 'obviously' part, I claim there is no deep
> difference whatsoever.  

sorry, but no time to read all you reply, leaving in minutes.
But, it seem there is no need.
I never said there was a big difference, I said there was a subtle one 
and you agree there is no deep one, no need to clutter the ml more :)


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Oct 11 06:48:36 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:48:36 +0200
Subject: End of file
References: <3A81C87DC164034AA4E2DDFE11D258E3022F5A@exchange.hqamor.amorhq.net>
Message-ID: <ckdoe4$gkm$1@sea.gmane.org>

Robert Brewer wrote:
> Is there some reason people consistently don't use new-style classes? :(

performance:

    http://www.python.org/~jeremy/weblog/030506.html

</F> 





From dennis.benzinger at gmx.net  Wed Oct 27 07:46:01 2004
From: dennis.benzinger at gmx.net (Dennis Benzinger)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 04:46:01 -0700
Subject: using re: hitting recursion limit
References: <417eab49$1@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <3734459e.0410270346.57fab07b@posting.google.com>

"Erik Johnson" <spam at nospam.org> wrote in message news:<417eab49$1 at nntp.zianet.com>...

> [...]
>     Yeah, so this is a known problem, and sure enough, if you run this
> example, it will crap out as shown above.  I tried to build 2.3 from sources
> before and ran into other funky problems. When I get a standard SuSE
> distribution, I will upgrade to 2.3. In the meantime, I'm running 2.2.
> [...]

Perhaps you can wait a bit and directly upgrade to 2.4 with the new
non-recursive
regular expression engine.
Read more on http://www.python.org/2.4/highlights.html in the "New or
upgraded modules and packages" section.


From oldphartyankee at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 02:17:36 2004
From: oldphartyankee at yahoo.com (John Smith)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:17:36 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question
Message-ID: <4C1ed.5243$TU5.3711@trndny06>

Aside from the text online, what are the best books for a newbie learning 
python as their first language? 




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Oct 31 08:43:28 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:43:28 -0500
Subject: List problem
In-Reply-To: <2uk7slF2am8o4U1@uni-berlin.de>
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.5668.1099072329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<v2m9o0d7d1v3h4doumfkmb4djk41u0gb9c@4ax.com>
	<1gmiyon.jvyq1w1ob9r59N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2uk7slF2am8o4U1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <6Mydnc7kdcWdcRncRVn-rA@powergate.ca>

Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
>>    a[:] = [x for x in a if x != 2]
> 
>        ^^^
> What are these for?

Observe the difference between these two approaches:

Python 2.3.4 (#53, May 25 2004, 21:17:02) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
 >>> b = a = range(5)
 >>> b is a
True
 >>> a[:] = [x for x in a if x != 2]
 >>> a
[0, 1, 3, 4]
 >>> b
[0, 1, 3, 4]
 >>> b is a
True

 >>> b = a = range(5)
 >>> a = [x for x in a if x != 2]
 >>> b is a
False


[:] on the left side of the assignment basically causes
"slice assignment" to the whole list, modifying it in-place
instead of creating a new list.

-Peter


From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Sun Oct 31 01:20:28 2004
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: 31 Oct 2004 10:50:28 +0530
Subject: ctypes 0.9.2 released
References: <mailman.5628.1098988697.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xkvhsm7y3umz.fsf@cisco.com> <fz3x8i1c.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <xkvhd5yz79b7.fsf@cisco.com>

>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> Ganesan R <rganesan at myrealbox.com> writes:
>>>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:
>> 
>>> Future plans
>>> The ultimate purpose of the 0.9 release series is to shake out the
>>> remaining bugs, especially on platforms I have no access to, and
>>> to target a rock stable ctypes 1.0 release.
>>> When ctypes 1.0 is released, the com framework will be split off
>>> into a separate framework named 'comtypes'.
>> 
>> Congratulations! I maintain ctypes for debian. I am holding off uploading
>> the 0.9 versions because they don't support Python 2.2. A Python 2.2 package
>> was present in debian for ctypes 0.6.2, I want to be sure that no one is
>> using it before uploading 0.9.x.

> When I gave up support for Python 2.2, I didn't realize that all the
> platforms on sourceforge's compile farm still have Python 2.2.  I had to
> configure a install a private 2.3 or newer version myself, although
> probably I learned a lot from that.

> When will the linux distributions switch from 2.2 to a newer version?
> I understood that redhat probably had their reasons to stay with 1.5.2
> for quite a long time, but are there similar reasons for other distributions?

Debian switched to Python 2.3 as default quite a while back. If you install
python-ctypes in python you get python2.3-ctypes by default. You need to
explicitly install python2.2-ctypes if you want Python 2.2 support.

It's just that I need to remove python2.2-ctypes package if I upload a
0.9.x version of ctypes.  If some one is still interested in Python 2.2
support, I may have to package both 0.6.2 (under a different name, say
ctypes062) and 0.9.2.

Ganesan


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 20 18:17:57 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:17:57 +0200
Subject: Setting Environment Variables
References: <mailman.5240.1098302851.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1glzcmr.maoai5g3knjeN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Greg Lindstrom <greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com> wrote:

> but am having trouble getting it done.  Suppose the script is called
> setprod.  How can I call this from inside a python script then pick up the
> env's later in my program?  I've tried os.system ('setprod') and
> os.system('. setprod'), but neither seemed to work.

try parsing the result of: os.popen('. setprod && env').readlines()

the env command emits the current environment to stdout, and the
os.popen() makes that environment available to you.  If you want to know
exactly what setprod changed, you can compare the parsed result of that
with the still-current os.environ dictionary: the subprocess (in which
setprod necessarily runs) can't alter YOUR process's environment.


Alex


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 09:13:09 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:13:09 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<cl4c4t$lp9$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
	<1098414642.736428.8940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
	<p5qdnQgpecnQd-XcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <1gm28id.6no7311mzliubN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
    ...
> And you've reemphasized my point.  "Testing" is not test-driven
> development.  In fact, test-driven development is about *design*,
> not just about testing.  The two are related, but definitely not

Hmmm... the way I see it, it's about how one (or, better!!!, two: pair
programming is a GREAT idea) proceeds to _implement_ a design.  The fact
that the package (or other kind of component) I'm writing will offer a
class Foo with a no-parameters constructor, methods A, B, and C with
parameters thus and thus, etc, has hopefully been determined and agreed
beforehand -- the people who now write that package, and other teams who
write other code using the package, have presumably met and haggled
about it and coded one or more mock-up versions of the package (or used
other lesser way to clarify the specs), so that code depending on the
package can be tested-and-coded (with the mock-ups) even while the
package itself is being tested and coded...

I know Kent Beck's book shows a much more 'exploratory' kind of TDD, but
in a large project that would lead to its own deleterious equivalent of
"waterfall": everything must proceed bottom-up because no mid-level
components can be coded until the low-level components are done, and so
forth.  I don't think that's acceptable in this form, in general.

_Design_, in large scale software development, is mainly about sketching
reasonable boundaries between components to allow testing and coding to
proceed with full advantage of the fact that the team of developers is
of substantial size.  Indeed there may be several sub-teams, or even
several full-fledged teams, though the latter situation (over, say,
around 20 developers, assuming colocation... that's the very maximum you
could possibly, sensibly cram into a single team) suddenly begets its
own sociopolitical AND technical problems... I have not been in that
situation with Python, yet, only with Fortran, C, C++.

Of course when both components are nominally done there comes
integration testing time, and the sparks fly;-).  Designing integration
tests ahead of time, at the same time as the mock-ups, _would_ help, but
somehow or other it never really seems to happen (I'd love hearing
real-life experiences from somebody who DID manage to make it happen,
btw; maybe I'd learn how to "facilitate" its happening, too!-).

If and when you're lucky there's some 'customer' (in the
extreme-programming sense) busy writing _acceptance_ tests for the
system, making the user-stories concrete, at the same time -- but good
acceptance tests are NOT the same thing as good integration tests... you
need both kinds (at least if the system is truly large).  Anyway, at
integration-testing time and/or acceptance-testing time, there is
typically at least one iteration where the mock-ups/specs are updated to
take into account of what we've learned while implementing the component
and consuming it, and it's back to the pair-programming parts with TDD.

But these fascinating AND crucially important issues are about far wider
concerns than "static type testing" can help with.  "Design by
Contract", where the mock-up includes preconditions and postconditions
and invariants, can be helpful, but such DbC thingies are to be checked
at runtime, anyway (they're great in pinpointing more problems during
integration testing, etc, etc, they don't _substitute_ for testing
though, they simply amplify its effectiveness, which is good enough).

TDD may surely help defining the internal structures and algorithms
within a single component, of course, if that's what you mean by design.

But (with decent partitioning) a single component should be _at most_ a
few thousand lines of Python code -- very offhand I'd say no more than
2/3 thousand lines of functional code, as much again of unit tests, and
a generous addition of comments, docstrings, and blank lines, to a total
line count, as "wc *.py" gives it of no more than 6k, 7k tops.  If it's
bigger, there are problems -- docstrings are trying to become user
reference manuals, comments are summarizing whole books on data
structures and algorithms rather than giving the URLs to them, or, most
likely, there was a mispartitioning and this poor "component" is being
asked to do far too much, way more than one cohesive set of
responsibilities which need to be well-coordinated.  Time to call an
emergency team meeting and repartition a little bit.

Hmmm, this has relatively little to do with static type checks, but is
extremely relevant to the 'Subject' - indeed, it's one (or two;-) of the
many sets of issues that (IMHO) need to be addressed in a book or course
on large scale software development (not JUST design, mind you: the
process whereby the design is defined, how it's changed during the
development, and how it is implemented by the various components, is at
least as important as the technical characteristics that the design
itself, seen as a finished piece of work, should exhibit...).

> the same thing, and eliminating TDD with a wave of a hand intended
> to poo-poo mere testing is to miss the point.  Once someone has

Absolutely -- I do fully agree with you on this.

> tried TDD, they are unlikely to lump it in with simple "unit testing"
> as it has other properties that aren't obvious on the surface.

It sure beats "retrofitting" unit tests post facto.  But I'm not sure
what properties you have in mind here; care to expand?


> > What is the biggest system you have built with python personally?  I'm
> > happy to be proven wrong, but honestly, the most enthusiastic "testing
> > solves all my problem" people I have seen haven't worked on anything
> > "large" -- and my definition of large agrees with Alex's; over 100
> > kloc, more than a handful of developers.
> 
> The topic of the thread was large projects with _large teams_,
> I thought, so I won't focus on my personal work.  The team I

Yeah, I think the intended meaning was "in which you personally have
taken part" rather than any implication of "single-handedly" -- the
mention of "more than a handful of developers" being key.

BTW, a team with 5-6 colocated developers, plus support personnel for
GUI painting/design (in the graphical sense) and/or webpage/style ditto,
system administration, documentation, acceptance testing, etc, can build
QUITE a large system, if the team dynamics and the skills of the people
involved are right.  So the "more of a handful of developers" doesn't
seem a necessary part of the definition of "large scale software
development".  5-6 full-time developers already require the kind of
coordination and component design (partitioning) that 10-12 will,
there's no big jump there in my experience.  The jump does come when you
double again (or can't have colocation, even with just, say, 6 people),
because that's when the one team _must_ split into cooperating teams
(again in my experience: I _have_ seen -- thankfully not participated in
-- alleged single "teams" of 50 or more people, but I am not sure they
actually even managed to deploy any working code... whatever language
we're talking about, matters little, as here we're clashing with a
biological characteristic of human beings, probably connected to the
prehistorical size of optimal hunting bands or something!-).

> was leading worked on code that, if I recall, was somewhat over
> 100,000 lines of Python code including tests.  I don't recall
> whether that number was the largest piece, or combining several
> separate applications which ran together but in a distributed
> system...  I think there were close to 20 man years in the main
> bit.

I think this qualifies as large, assuming the separate applications had
to cooperate reasonably closely (i.e. acting as "components", even
though maybe in separate processes and "only" touching on the same
database or set of files or whatever).

> (And remembering that 1 line of Python code corresponds to
> some larger number, maybe five or ten, of C code, that should
> qualify it as a large project by many definitions.)

I agree.  There IS a persistent idea that codebase size is all that
really matters, so 100,000 lines of code are just as difficult to
develop and maintain whether they're assembly, C, or Python.  I think
this common idea overstates the case a bit (and even Capers Jones
agrees, though he tries to do so by distinguishing coding from other
development activities, which isn't _quite_ my motivation).

Part of why I recommend having no more than 2-3 k lines of functional
code in a single Python component (plus about as much again of unit
test, etc, to no more than 6-7k lines including blanks/cmts/docstrings,
as above explained) is that those (say) 2.5k lines can do a hell of a
_LOT_ of stuff, quite comparable in my experience to 10k-15k lines of
C++ or Java (and more than that of C, of course) -- on the order of
magnitude of 200-300 function points at least.  If you go much above
that, keeping the characteristics of cohesion and coherence becomes way
too hard.  So, a 100kSLOC Python project will have at least about 40
components, and 10k or so FPs, where a Java project with the same line
count might typically have 2-3K FPs spread into, say, 15 components.
(I'm thinking of functional effective lines, net of testing, comments,
docstrings, or any kind of code instrumentation for debug/profile/&c).

In other words: the Python project is _way_ bigger in functionality, and
therefore in needed/opportune internal granularity, than the Java one
with the same SLOCs.  Jones' estimates for Java's language level; are
"10 to 20 function points per staff month".  He doesn't estimate Python,
but if I'm right and the language level (FP/SLOC) is about 4-5 times
Java's, nevertheless according to Jones' tables that, per se, would only
push productivity to "30 to 50 function points per staff month" -- a
factor of less than three.

(( Of course, for both Java and Python, and also C, C++, etc,
superimposed on all of these productivity estimates there _is_ the
possibility of reuse of the huge libraries of code available for these
languages -- most of all for Python, who's well supplied with tools and
tecnologies to leech^H^H^H^H^H ahem, I mean, fruitfully reuse good
existing libraries almost regardless of what language the libraries were
originally made _for_.  A reuse-oriented culture, particularly now that
so many good libraries are available under open-source terms, CAN in my
opinion easily boost overall productivity, in terms of functionality
delivered and deployed, by _AT LEAST_ a factor of 2 in any of these
languages.  But this, in a way, is a different issue... ))


> > So people don't get me wrong: I love python.  Most of my programming
> > friends call me "the python zealot" behind my back.  I just don't think
> > it's the right tool for every problem.
> 
> Neither do I.  The above project also involved some C and
> some assembly, plus some Javascript and possibly something else
> I've forgotten by now.  We just made efforts to use Python *as
> much as possible* and it paid off.

Hmmmm, yes, assembly may be unusual these days, but C extensions are
very common, pyrex ones rightfully becoming more so, Javascript quite
typical when you need to serve webpages that are richly interactive
without requiring round-trips to the server, and we shouldn't ignore the
role of XSLT and friends too.  And what large project is without some
SQL?  Exceedingly few, I think.

But Python can fruitfully sit in the center and easily amount to 80% or
90% of the codebase even in projects needing all of these other
technologies for specialized purposes...


> > Specifically, in my experience, statically-typed languages make it much
> > easier to say "okay, I'm fixing a bug in Class.Foo; here's all the
> > places where it's used."  This lets me see how Foo is actually used --
> > in a perfect world, Foo's documentation is precise and up to date, but
> > I haven't worked anywhere that this was always the case -- which lets
> > me make my fix with a reasonable chance of not breaking anything.
> > Compile-time type checking increases those chances.  Unit tests
> > increase that further, but relying on unit tests as your first and only
> > line of defense is suboptimal when there are better options.
> 
> But what if you already had tests which allowed you to do exactly
> the thing you describe?  Is there a need for "better options"
> at that point?  Are they really better?  When I do TDD, I can
> *trivially* catch all the cases where Class.Foo is used
> because they are all exercised by the tests.  Furthermore, I

Absolutely.  The main role of the unit tests is exactly to define all
the use cases of Foo and the expected results of such uses.  If the unit
tests are decent, and with TDD they _will_ be, they suffice to let you
change Foo's internals without breaking Foo's uses (refactoring).

One thing unit tests can't do, and Foo's documentation cannot either, is
to find out if any of Foo's abilities are _totally unused_ -- for that,
you do need to scour the codebase.  Trimming functionality that had
originally seemed necessary and was negotiated to be included, but turns
out to be overdesigned, is not a crucial activity (it's sure not worth
distorting a language to make such trimming faster), but it's a nice
periodic exercise.  Anything that's excised from the code, and tests,
and internal docs, is so much less to maintain in the future.  Of
course, you can't do that anyway if you "publish" components for outside
consumption by code you can't check or control; and even in a single
team situation you still need to check with others if they weren't
planning to use just tomorrow one of the capabilities you'd like to
remove today.

One interesting possibility is to instrument Foo to record all the uses
it gets, tracing them into a file or wherever, then run the system
through its paces -- all the unit tests of every component that depends
(even indirectly) on the one containing Foo, and all the existing
integration and acceptance tests.  A profiler can typically do it for
you, in any language, when used in "code coverage" mode.  If any part of
Foo's code has 0 coverage _except_ possibly by Foo's own unit tests,
that _does_ tell you something.  And it need have nothing to do with
typing, of course.  One case I recall from many years ago was something
like:

int foo(int x, int y) {
    if (x<23) { /* small fast case, get out of the way quick */
        /* a dozen lines of code for the small fast case */
    } else { /* the real thing, get to work! */
        /* six dozen lines of code for the real thing */
    }
}

where the whole 'real thing' _never_ happened to be exercised.  With a
little checking around, changing this to return an error code if x>=23
(it should never have happened, just as it never did) was a really nice
_snip_ (excised code goes to a vault and a pointer to it is left in a
comment here, of course, in case it's needed again in the future; but
meanwhile it doesn't need to get maintained or tested, maybe for years,
maybe forever...).

> can catch real bugs, not just typos and simple things involving
> using the wrong type.  A superset of the bugs your statically
> typed language tools are letting you catch.  But obviously
> I'm rehashing the argument, and one which has been discussed
> here many times, so I should let it go.

You surely won't get any disagreement from me about this -- and I don't
believe any static-typing enthusiast argues _against_ unit tests and
TDD, they just want BOTH, even though we claim (and C++/Java guru Robert
Martin himself strongly claims) that TDD and systematic unit testing
really makes static-typing rather redundant... you keep paying all the
price for that language feature, don't get much benefit in return.


> >>Having experience with both approaches, and choosing one over
> >>the other, gives one greater credibility than having experience
> >>with just one approach, yet clinging to it...
> > 
> > You are incorrect if you assume I am unfamiliar with python.  
> 
> I assumed no such thing, just that you were unfamiliar with
> large projects in Python and yet were advising the OP on its
> suitability in that realm.  You're bright and experienced, and
> your comments have substance, but until you've actually
> participated in a large project with Python and seen it fail
> gloriously *because it was not statically typed*, I wouldn't
> put much weight on your comments in this area if I were the
> OP.  That's all I was saying...

I would gladly accept as relevant experiences with other languages that
are strictly but dynamically typed, such as, say, Smalltalk or Ruby or
Erlang, if project failures (or even, short of failures, severe
productivity hits) can indeed be traced, despite proper TDD/unit
testing, to the lack of statically checked typing.  I try to keep up
with the relevant literature (can't possibly manage for _all_ of it of
course) and don't recall any such experiences, but of course I may well
have missed some, particularly since not everything gets published.


Alex


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Fri Oct 22 13:46:27 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:46:27 +0100
Subject: Need help locating Python Cookbook contributors
In-Reply-To: <9agin0dmvolq8ap678bu2uo1fn3kfrv4ff@4ax.com>
References: <9agin0dmvolq8ap678bu2uo1fn3kfrv4ff@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <clbh1n$akl$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Jonathan Gennick wrote:
> Alex Martelli, Anna Ravenscroft, and I are trying to locate the
> following people, whose Actionstate Python Cookbook recipes we are
> wishing to use in the second, printed edition of the Python Cookbook. 
> 
 > [...]
> Raymond Hettinger 

You really can't find Raymond Hettinger? ;-)
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Thu Oct 14 23:10:40 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:10:40 -0400
Subject: Not enough space error?
In-Reply-To: <005c01c4b25b$f1124150$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
References: <005c01c4b25b$f1124150$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
Message-ID: <416F3FB0.7080705@kzoo.edu>

Joe Wong wrote:

> Hi,
> I have a script that runs on Windows. Last night, it throw an except
> saying:
> IOError Errno 12 not enough space
> This happens on the "open()" call. I check and there is plenty of
> diskspace available on my Windows 2000 box.
> What could be the cause of this error here?
> Regards,
> - Joe
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 2004/10/8

How big is the file and how much memory do you have? Have you run
scandisk to make sure that your disk space is being reported correctly?



From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Oct 10 05:52:00 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 09:52:00 GMT
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <7xoejbt5bc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.4604.1097266756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.09.15.44.40.1871@jerf.org>
	<41683653$0$411$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<ubrfbr18n.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	<416864b1$0$547$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<du7fz4n6ozx.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
	<7xoejbt5bc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4D7ad.1030$Bw1.478@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> I think != is appropriate in this situation.  
>    if bool(x) != bool(y): ...

while I prefer my already mentioned

   if bool(x) + bool(y) == 1:
     print "One and only one given"

That's because the pure logic ones, both != and
xor, confuse me while arithmetic doesn't.

It's also extensible to, say, "all three
parameters are either empty strings or non-empty
strings".

   if 0 < bool(x) + bool(y) + bool(z) < 3:
     print "that's not allowed"

BTW, I've used an idiom like this with some
success

   def blah(filename = None, infile = None, url = None):
     if (bool(filename is None) + bool(infile is None) +
         bool(url is None)) != 2:
       raise TypeError("Must specify one and only one of "
                       "'filename', 'infile', or 'url'")
     if filename is not None:
       infile = open(filename)
     elif url is not None:
       infile = urllib.urlopen(url)
     ...


Try that with an xor.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com


From moffie at clear.net.nz  Mon Oct  4 04:00:35 2004
From: moffie at clear.net.nz (moff)
Date: 4 Oct 2004 01:00:35 -0700
Subject: wxPython - what classes are available?
Message-ID: <470ec500.0410040000.7dcad024@posting.google.com>

There seems to be a heck of a lot of wxEWindows classes available. 
Can someone tell me (or send me a link of) what is compatable with
wxPython?

It can't be the whole lot, can it?

(Wow, wxPython looks GREAT!)


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Oct 27 08:29:39 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 15:29:39 +0300
Subject: Language comparison site - Python ranks #8 on the A-list
References: <Mtwfd.1138$EI6.392@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Message-ID: <du7is8wz6mk.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul McGuire <ptmcg at austin.rr._bogus_.com> writes:

    Paul> I just tripped over this site
    Paul> (http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm), and google shows that there
    Paul> has only been a brief mention of it on c.l.py in the Aug 12
    Paul> Dr. Dobb's Python-URL post, so I thought I'd pass it along
    Paul> for those looking for some quasi-quantitative Python
    Paul> advocacy data.

To stay on topic, observing the software development landscape in
general, it seems that Python mindshare has increased a lot during the
last few years. In the Open Source scene Python already seems to be
the de facto standard scripting / RAD language (having replaced Perl),
but Python seems to be doing a nice job of increasing the adoption in
the proprietary world as well (in the scripting role).

So Python has definitely "made it", and there is really no fear of it
sinking into obscurity (prediction of which being probably what the
aforementioned websites are for). Not before Java anyway, not to
mention the more obviously proprietary languages.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From ville at spammers.com  Wed Oct  6 05:25:54 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 06 Oct 2004 12:25:54 +0300
Subject: alternate function call syntax  (was: print - parameters ?)
References: <2sf68hF1jj1mlU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<1gl6kaz.ik0adqe0jhkuN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<4163B60D.8000705@igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <du71xgc8afx.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Helmut" == Helmut Jarausch <jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de> writes:

    Helmut> Is there any chance that Python 3000 would allow an
    Helmut> alternate function call in addition to the standard
    Helmut> function call

    Helmut> I'd suggest something along the lines of a TeX macro
    Helmut> definition, e.g.

    Helmut> def integrate(x,y,z) accepts function 'from' float 'to' float

    Helmut> this must then be called as

    Helmut> from math import sin
    Helmut> ....
    Helmut> integrate sin from 0.0 to 3.14

I'd venture to guess that there is no chance of that happening in
Python 3000.

"There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it."

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Tue Oct 26 01:57:37 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:57:37 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <940ee3e8.0410251937.5355a8c7@posting.google.com>
References: <Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA@giganews.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410251937.5355a8c7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041025223914.0B2C.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik) wrote:
> 
> Istvan Albert <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote in message news:<Hoydnaa6uYCfjuDcRVn-gA at giganews.com>...

> > If you are worried about some numbers growing too much, then
> > check them yourself, you'll get much better results that way.
> 
> maybe, why not use an automated test built-in 2 the language? i get it
> 4 free.

Overflow errors are not automated tests.  Overflow errors were a (mis)
feature of Python (non-long) integers.  Had the unification occurred
prior to your using of Python, this conversation wouldn't be happening.

 - Josiah



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Oct 25 15:37:41 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:37:41 -0400
Subject: GPL and Python modules.
In-Reply-To: <m3sm82vbrv.fsf@g2ctech.com>
References: <417d18bc$0$1313$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5436.1098725999.5135.python-list@python.org>	<417d4471$0$524$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<mailman.5437.1098729307.5135.python-list@python.org>	<417d48f6$0$1324$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>	<2b-dnQaA6rzh0eDcRVn-gQ@powergate.ca>
	<m31xfmwqwb.fsf@g2ctech.com> <m3sm82vbrv.fsf@g2ctech.com>
Message-ID: <tvSdnT7V_p2Yy-DcRVn-3Q@powergate.ca>

Jorge Godoy wrote:
> Jorge Godoy <godoy at ieee.org> writes:
> 
> 
>>Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>>Whatever gave you the idea you are obligated to provide support?!
>>
>>One has such an obligation here in .br.  Our law demands that and a
>>license can't override what is stated in the law, so... 
> 
> 
> Just to make it clear: I was referring to obligations to software
> distributed/sold here...

Now you tell me.  :-)

It's probably the case in the majority of markets that one is
obligated to provide some kind of support for the products one
sells.

I'm betting these laws have not yet been applied to the
*freely provided source code* that accompanies open source
software, even if the distribution of the software itself
(not the source) is matched by a big fat cheque from the
customer.  And I'll bet they won't be any time soon.

-Peter


From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Wed Oct 27 03:49:52 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:49:52 -0700
Subject: Please help - get average
In-Reply-To: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19CC4@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>
References: <743AC0214781BD40ABFCC53FEA5FA134D19CC4@usmtml01.ad.sjm.com>
Message-ID: <1098863393.22370.426.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 12:49 -0500, Borman, Linda E wrote:
> Hi , Im new to Python can you help.
> Trying to create a program that  I can entered  only 10 random
> numbers, and calculate the average of those numbers after executing a
> loop. Using for loop.
>  
>  
> Stumped
> This is what I have so far.
>  
> # using for loop
> number = 10
> while number !=0 :
>     number = input("Enter a number: ")
>     count = number
>     sum =  number
>     for a in range (1):
>         print sum 
>         print "The average is: ", sum / count
>     print "all Done"

Try it something like this:

total = 0.0
count = 0
number = None

while number not in ('q', 'Q'):
    number = raw_input("Enter a number (or Q to quit): ")
    try:
        number = float(number)
    except ValueError:
        continue
    total += number
    count += 1

print "The average is:", total / count


Regards,
Cliff
 
-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Oct 22 07:58:06 2004
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:58:06 +0200
Subject: About lambda.
In-Reply-To: <20041022115630.57507.qmail@web90004.mail.scd.yahoo.com>
References: <20041022115630.57507.qmail@web90004.mail.scd.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041022115806.GA19230@mylene.ghaering.de>

On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 04:56:30AM -0700, Xin Wang wrote:
> [...]
> Keyword 'lambda' is just like a macro in c or templete
> in c++ or not?

No, it creates an anonymous function (i. e. a function with no name).

-- Gerhard
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From nospam at nospam.com  Wed Oct 27 06:14:16 2004
From: nospam at nospam.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:14:16 +0200
Subject: OSA Python
In-Reply-To: <417d39ec$0$62032$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
References: <417d39ec$0$62032$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <417f74f3$0$62050$ee9da40f@news.wanadoo.nl>

Hi,

Does anyone have the OSA Python extension for MacOS 9? I tried 
to contact Bill Fancher, but the e-mail address on his website 
is incorrect. Does anyone know how to contact him? I would 
appreciate your help very much.

Best regards,

Mark


Mark Schonewille wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm new on this list. I am looking for the OSA Python extension for 
> MacOS 9. The MacOS X version can be downloaded here:
> 
> <http://home.pacbell.net/fancher/OSA_Python/OSAPython_1.0.a5.dmg.sit>
> 
> but I need the MacOS 9 version, because I want to do this:
> 
> <http://home.pacbell.net/fancher/OSA_Python/Hypercard.GIF>
> 
> If you have the OSA Python extension or know where to get it, could you 
> please contact me at pythonosa(a)schonewille.cjb.net?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Mark
> 

-- 

eHUG coordinator
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.ehug.info



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct 13 14:21:28 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:21:28 -0700
Subject: Secure Python code - volunteers for code review?
In-Reply-To: <1097664512.12092.29.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
References: <20041013004207.0921.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<1097664512.12092.29.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>
Message-ID: <20041013110629.0934.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> > Thankfully, other languages are able to translate to/from hex *wink*. 
> 
> Well, paint me ignorant, but I'm unaware of any feature in psql or mysql
> (or any other tool, for that matter) that translates hex data to a
> human-readable form without explicitly wrapping each field in your query
> in a function call (and this precludes queries such as "SELECT * FROM
> foo").  I'm not certain what you mean by "other languages" as I was
> referring to the command line tools shipped with PostgreSQL and MySQL
> respectively.

What I meant by other languages, were languages like php, perl, tcl,
lisp, C, C++, Java, or any other language one would be using data from
SQL databases.

> Anyone who does a lot of database work inevitably finds themselves using
> the stock tools to review/revise data, so IMO, encoding the data is far
> too tedious when there is an existing method for providing safe queries
> that doesn't incur this overhead.

Mayhaps we should look at the context that the post was in: a Python
newsgroup/mailing list.  Since encoding and decoding hex is available in
Python, at least in this application, it seems sufficient.  It does
suffer from the pre and post-processing requirements that have been
discussed, but prepare only saves you the post-processing.

Whether or not the original poster will be spending their time using
console SQL commands to audit data, I don't know.  Which one is better
for a particular application may depend on that application.  Prepare is
likely the best solution for most cases.

 - Josiah



From nick at craig-wood.com  Fri Oct 15 01:46:35 2004
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 05:46:35 GMT
Subject: automatic accessors to a member var dict elements?
References: <mailman.4968.1097781955.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncmtp34.lr2.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>

Christopher J. Bottaro <cjbottaro at alumni.cs.utexas.edu> wrote:
>  If I have the following class:
> 
>  class MyClass:
>          def __init__(self):
>                  m_dict = {}
>                  m_dict['one'] = 1
>                  m_dict['two'] = 2
>                  m_dict['three'] = 3
> 
>  Is there anyway to generate automatic accessors to the elements of the dict? 
>  For example, so I could say:
> 
>  obj = MyClass()
>  obj.one # returns obj.my_dict['one']
>  obj.one = 'won' # same as obj.my_dict['one'] = 'won'
> 
>  By automatic, I mean so I don't have to write out each method by hand and
>  also dynamic, meaning if m_dict changes during runtime, the accessors are
>  automatically updated to reflect the change.

Here is an old style class way of doing it.  I think there might be a
better way with new style classes but I'm not up to speed on them!

Note care taken to set m_dict as self.__dict__["m_dict"] rather than
self.m_dict otherwise the __setattr__ will recurse!  You can put a
special case in __setattr__ if you prefer.

class MyClass:
    def __init__(self):
        self.__dict__["m_dict"] = {}
        self.m_dict['one'] = 1
        self.m_dict['two'] = 2
        self.m_dict['three'] = 3
    def __getattr__(self, name):
        return self.m_dict[name]
    def __setattr__(self, name, value):
        self.m_dict[name] = value

>>> obj = MyClass()
>>> print obj.one
1
>>> obj.one = 'won'
>>> print obj.one
won

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood <nick at craig-wood.com> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From eric_nymeXXX at yahoo.fr  Mon Oct 25 13:02:15 2004
From: eric_nymeXXX at yahoo.fr (ricky)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:02:15 +0200
Subject: about wxpython and grid, two problems snif ;)
Message-ID: <417d3189$0$3834$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

hello

i need your help for two problemes :

1) is it possible to easily hide some row, and recover them ?

2) is it possible to have different colours on the label columns?
for instance, when a row is selected, having the label of THIS row, and 
only this row, colorised in red ?

thanks for your answer and thanks to wxpython ;)


From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Thu Oct 21 14:50:00 2004
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:50:00 +0300
Subject: Help needed: Printing unicode characters in user defined format
Message-ID: <4178055e$0$20457$39db0f71@news.song.fi>

Hi there,

how can I write out Python Unicode character's
hexadecimal value in generic format?

I need to loop thru characters in Unicode string
and store each character in format \U+hhhh, where
hhhh is the value of unicode character in hexadecimal?

For example string:

u'Hell?'

should be written into file like this:

'\U+0048\U+0065\U+006C\U+006C\U+00F6'


-pekka-


From gandalf at geochemsource.com  Tue Oct 12 06:39:14 2004
From: gandalf at geochemsource.com (Gandalf)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:39:14 +0200
Subject: httplib ResponseNotReady
In-Reply-To: <416B96A3.2010400@geochemsource.com>
References: <416B96A3.2010400@geochemsource.com>
Message-ID: <416BB452.4010300@geochemsource.com>


> There was a discussion about a bug in httplib. After 100 (continue), 
> when you want to GET a page, you will get a ResponseNotReady exception 
> instead.
> I'm having the same problem here. I'm using Python 2.3.2. Does anyone 
> know if this problem has been solved? Are there patches? 

I solved this problem by replacing httplib with os.popen and the 
wonderful wget program.
However, I'm still interested in the topic. Is this bug already fixed or 
patched?

Best,

   Laci 2.0




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 31 21:24:37 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 02:24:37 GMT
Subject: List problem
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
	<mailman.5668.1099072329.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<v2m9o0d7d1v3h4doumfkmb4djk41u0gb9c@4ax.com>
	<1gmiyon.jvyq1w1ob9r59N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41853d5f.1278687054@news.oz.net>
	<1gmjqh9.oialil1r1xwffN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41858eaa.1299498379@news.oz.net>

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 00:45:24 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>    ...
>> >    a[:] = [x for x in a if x != 2]
        ^^^^-[1] 
>> >
>> >is more concise, idiomatic, and speedy.  No reason to do low-level
>> >twiddling with indices and fiddly loops, in cases where a list
>> >comprehension can do the job so simply.
>> >
>> Except maybe if the list is huge, and you don't want to generate a
>duplicate, e.g.,
>   ...
>> Should also be faster for large lists, IWT.
>
>'shud' is a 4-letter word -- i prefer to measure.  Of course, it does
>depend what you mean by large/huge -- I hope 10 million items is enough;
>and what you're doing exactly -- I've kept 'deleting item 2' as it was
>the example that had been used so far.
>
>This is the module for measurement:
>
>def delsome_br(n=1000000, todel=[2]):
>    a = range(n)
>    i = 0
>    for x in a:
>        if x not in todel:
>            a[i] = x
>            i += 1
>    del a[i:]
>    return a
>
>def delsome_am(n=1000000, todel=[2]):
>    a = range(n)
>    a = [x for x in a if x not in todel]
     ^-- shud be a[:] ;-)

(I think the missing return a is in the noise ;-)
>
>and these are the numbers I see:
>
>kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit -s'import br' 'br.delsome_br()'
>10 loops, best of 3: 4.44 sec per loop
>kallisti:/tmp alex$ python -mtimeit -s'import br' 'br.delsome_am()'
>10 loops, best of 3: 3.92 sec per loop
>
I thought you had 'way faster machines than mine. Neither time is an improvement
over delsome_br for 2.3.2 on my old box. I wonder what's up.

>Python 2.4b1, of course -- somebody SO interested in performance, as to
>use those six delicate, fragile low-level lines, instead of the solid,
>no-space-for-bugs list comprehension, surely WANTS the performance
>pluses of 2.4, anyway;-).
>

 Python 2.3.2 (#49, Oct  2 2003, 20:02:00) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> def delsome_br(n=1000000, todel=[2]):
 ...     a = range(n)
 ...     i = 0
 ...     for x in a:
 ...         if x not in todel:
 ...             a[i] = x
 ...             i += 1
 ...     del a[i:]
 ...     return a
 ...
 >>> def delsome_am(n=1000000, todel=[2]):
 ...     a = range(n)
 ...     a = [x for x in a if x not in todel]
 ...
 >>> from time import clock
 >>> for f in delsome_br, delsome_am:
 ...     print f.__name__
 ...     for i in range(3):
 ...         t0 = clock()
 ...         ignore = f()
 ...         print clock()-t0
 ...
 delsome_br
 3.39048024526
 3.63548729364
 3.6326486655
 delsome_am
 6.40547292869
 6.32403355062
 6.21752171923


>I'm sure platforms and tasks can be devised that make delsome_br faster.
>However, personally, I'm not surprised that, on a task I tried to code
>as impartially as possible, the "should be faster" fussy, low-level
a[:] would improve impartiality a smidge ;-) And change the numbers on my box:
delsome_br
3.36129106876
3.63628348399
3.63185750372
delsome_am
6.77888285274
6.76994708267
6.74697154332

>solution ends up taking _longer_ than the simpler, higher-level one;
>it's not always that way, but it matches my general Python experience...
>"simple is good, simple is fast, high-level is simple" memes;-).
>
I agree, really ;-) Ideally optimization should eventually drive equivalent
functionality towards equivalent compiled code anyway.

>The tasks ARE a bit time-consuming, as you see (30 times 4+ seconds is
>over a couple of minutes per variation...), so I'm not going to dwell
>much deeper, but, of course, that's just why I posted everything -- so
>ingenious people can sweat it out and find a way to show the lower level
>version as faster, with the appropriate combination of platform and
>tasks.  Some suggestions...:
>
>The trick would be to hit just the right size of list that will make the
I did mention "huge" and "maybe" ;-)

>working set of the LC exceed available physical memory, while leaving
>the low-level approach with a working set that still fits; the thrashing
>will then kill the performance of one, but not the other.  To avoid
>having to aim for many tens of millions of items, a machine with scarce
>memory or very ineffective VM algorithms would be better -- some old PC
>with 64M of RAM and win/98 might be ideal, for example.  Unfortunately I
>don't have any machine with less than 640 M any more, even the laptops
>(RAM is so cheap, and SO precious to performance, that I can't justify
>stinting on THAT, of all items!), so I can't really help much there.
>
Ok, point made ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl  Wed Oct  6 13:57:00 2004
From: irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 19:57:00 +0200
Subject: XSL transform with Python
In-Reply-To: <33a013af.0410060646.3a821dc7@posting.google.com>
References: <33a013af.0410060646.3a821dc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <416431ea$0$25965$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Vegard Bakke wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> All I want to do is transforming an XML into another XML using an XSLT
> stylesheet.
[...]

> Can anyone give me a pointer to what module to use, what is stable,
> and what is and be stay standard for Python?

Theres no "THE" xslt library for Python, as far as I know.
I've used Pyana in the past (http://pyana.sourceforge.net/) with
good results, and it uses the Apache Xalan XSLT processor,
which I hold in high regard (wathever that's worth).

--Irmen


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Oct 13 16:03:47 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:03:47 +0200
Subject: Order in metaclass
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416cf48f.140377111@news.oz.net>
	<ckj4ol$if2$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4837.1097670511.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckjkf6$amt$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.4882.1097690854.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckk1mf$9f3$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

> Ok. Just as an exercise -- at this point we're far from safe Python
> land anyway, and it's not recommended to push it beyond this limit...
> ;-) Pseudo code only:
> 
> class Foo:
>     #?loop?that?creates?attributes?out?of?a?list
>     for?name,?val?in?list:
>         locals()[name]?=?val

Agreed.
 
> or (actual code tested):
> 
>>>> class Bar:
> ... ????????a,b,c,d = (1,2,3,4)
> ...
>>>> vars(Bar)
> {'a': 1, '__module__': '__main__', 'b': 2, 'd': 4, 'c': 3, '__doc__':
> {None}

You cannot rely on a vars() because it produces a dict - and dictionaries
don't preserve the insertion order by design. 

> The ordering became (a,b,d,c); and the code would have no way to tell
> that 'c' was supposed to be classified before 'd', because the
> getframe trick would return the same line.

No, it doesn't:

>>> class Bar:
...     a, b, c, d = "xyzt"
...     print sys._getframe().f_code.co_names
...
('__name__', '__module__', 'a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'sys', '_getframe', 'f_code',
'co_names')

whereas

>>> vars(Bar).keys()
['a', '__module__', 'b', 'd', 'c', '__doc__']

Of course there are other ways to garble the co_names order:

>>> class Any:
...     def __getattr__(self, name): return name
...
>>> any = Any()
>>> class Bar:
...     x = any.d
...     a, b, c, d = "xyzt"
...     print sys._getframe().f_code.co_names
...
('__name__', '__module__', 'any', 'd', 'x', 'a', 'b', 'c', 'sys',
'_getframe', 'f_code', 'co_names')

All very useless/interesting stuff :-)

Peter



From news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com  Sat Oct  9 10:48:19 2004
From: news at NOwillmcguganSPAM.com (Will McGugan)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:48:19 +0100
Subject: Scope actions
Message-ID: <4167fa34$0$22761$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>

Hi,

I often write small classes in C++ the use the side effects of scope. 
For example a CAutoLock class that locks a mutex in the constructor and 
releases it in the destructor. Is this something that is easily 
accomplished in Python? I'm guessing that using __init__ and __del__ 
would be roughly equivalent to this. But can can I be sure - with 
garbage collection - that __del__ is called immediately at the point of 
going out of scope?

Alternatively, should I give up this little idiom and use try / finally?


Thanks,

Will McGugan


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 29 07:57:07 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:57:07 +0200
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
	<mailman.5652.1099050368.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2ueq45F2a9e6eU2@uni-berlin.de>

> Look at the multicall capability of the xmlrpclib library.  It may do what
> you want.

Verifying my response I found that, too - but thats more a bundling of calls
together instead of what the op wanted - a way to have some server-side
"cookie" that identifies an incoming call as authenticated. That's not
possible.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Sat Oct 16 09:50:39 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:50:39 +0200
Subject: beginning index for generators
References: <mailman.5041.1097931341.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ckr8ve$h4i$04$1@news.t-online.com>

kosh wrote:

> I was wondering if there is or there could be some way to pass a generator
> an optional starting index so that if it supported that slicing could be
> made more efficient. Right now if you do use a generator and do a
> [100:110] or any other kind of slice it reads all the values up to 100
> also.

<snip>
> I have no idea how feasible this is, what it would take to implement it
> etc but I did not get any matches searching this on google and wanted to
> throw it out here to see if others have run into situations in which this
> would be very useful also and would further simplify code and make it more
> readable.


There is no way of doing this implicit - only explicit, with deep knowledge
of what actually gets iterated over by the generator - and as the slicing
is a second, independent operation on the generator that only knows about
the generator implementing the iterable protocol, it can't jump to
arbitrary positions in that generator. And as you said before, the
generator needs to be invoked that 100 times so it has consistent internal
state.

> 
> I would also love to know of other ways that this problem could be solved
> but I would like it to be as transparent as possible to existing calling
> code.

Maybe imlementing __getslice__ on your container object helps - that way,
calling code has not to be changed, but the implementation can take
advantage from the underlying collection beeing efficiently sliceable.



-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 19:10:52 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:10:52 -0300
Subject: class constructors: class vs. instance defaults
In-Reply-To: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
References: <416472df@nntp.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <864d37090410061610d6634cb@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:39:50 -0600, Erik Johnson <ej
<at at bag.python.org>wellkeeper <"dot>com"@bag.python.org> wrote:
> ...
> <snip>
> ...
>     You might be surprised to find out that all the Bar objects end up
> sharing the same foo_d dictionary.

Yes, they will share. And you explanation is correct. The default
arguments are evaluated only once, when the def() is executed.

Now an explanation on what I mean when I say 'the def() is executed'.
It took me a while to really 'get' it, and I would not be surprised if
anyone ever made the same mistake.

-- When Python reads you code, it compiles it to bytecode. That's the
first step. It will always do it before execution.

-- It then executes your code -- *the entire code*. It includes class
definitions and function definitions.

-- In the case of class definitions, it really executes the class
statement body, but only once. After executing the class statement
body, it creates a class with all the symbols defined there. It's much
more flexible than a simple compilation step. When you instantiante a
object, it just reads this definition and calls the proper constructor
(__init__).

-- In the case of the def() -- or function definition -- it really
'executes the def() statement', which is not the same thing as to say
that it will execute its body. Understand? The def statement has an
effect -- it creates a function object, and associates it with the
code of the function. The default arguments are evaluated at this time
and also stored as part of the function object (you can do all types
of nice stuff with function objects, if that's something you like...
but I'll leave that for other opportunity).

-- Of course, the function body is executed only when you call it, by
referring to the function object.

That's it, in a nutshell.
 
> class Bar:
> 
>     def __init__(self, foo_d=None)
>         if foo_d:
>             self.foo_d = foo_d
>         else:
>             self.foo_d = {}

Well, it works. I don't see anything wrong with it. Youonly need to
take care with objects that are mutable. This includes lists and
dicts, but _not_ ints, floats or strings. These you can use as
defaults just fine, without fear.

... but you can try this code also:

self.foo_d = foo_d or {}

It works, and it's short-circuiting -- the new dict will only be
constructed if foo_d is None.

>      This works. I reasoned that, unlike above, the {} in this definition is
> not executed until a Bar object is instantiated. But there is a little voice
> in my head saying "This is clunky. There must be some smarter, more Pythonic
> way to do this sort of default handling without ending up with a single
> shared object"  As I said, I am pretty new to Python and I am pretty pleased
> with Python so far and expect to be using it more and more, (currently
> porting and re-writing a lot of clunky PHP). I figured I might as well take
> the time to learn this finer point now.
> 
>     This example is trivial and it may seem silly to waste time considering
> the 5 lines in my constructor, but this is just a pared down skeleton of the
> problem I ran into and I am about to write lots of classes with lots of
> members and want to call constructors with different numbers of arguments
> and have different sorts of defaults (not necessarily shared, but maybe) for
> the arguments not passed explicitly. And so, if my workaround above is not a
> very clean one, I want to learn to do it the right way before I amplify it
> 1000X.
> 
>     So... Yes? Is there a better way to do this sort of thing, or is that
> perfectly reasonable code?
> 
>     Thanks for taking the time to read my post! :)
> 
> -ej
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From jonathan at gennick.com  Tue Oct 19 21:43:45 2004
From: jonathan at gennick.com (Jonathan Gennick)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:43:45 -0400
Subject: Luther Blisset
References: <9jb8n014advbvs5n0li6lo1a0d4cedbcsp@4ax.com>
	<7nXcd.719$si.122@lakeread04> <41747784$1@clarion.carno.net.au>
Message-ID: <jlgbn01nelr1f1avskqbho0hfii7dbbapr@4ax.com>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:10:24 +1000, Stuart Hungerford
<stuart.hungerford at anu.edu.au> wrote:

>    The "situationist" email address was a always a giveaway.  Very clever!

And I completely and utterly missed seeing that. 

Best regards,

Jonathan Gennick
Editor, O'Reilly Media
906.387.1698   mailto:jgennick at oreilly.com


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 17 04:08:34 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:08:34 -0700
Subject: detecting enabled network interfaces in win32
In-Reply-To: <a8dfce8c.0410162113.545a74bb@posting.google.com>
References: <a8dfce8c.0410162113.545a74bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041017010646.09F6.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> In one of my "because I can" projects, I want to be able to see the
> enabled network interfaces on a machine. I have no clue as to how to
> do this. Any suggestions?

Parse the output of 'ipconfig /all' on NT/2k/XP/2k3 machines.
I'm sure it is available in the registry, I've been there before, but I
can't remember the key name.  Use regedit to find the key with your
network interface to determine where you should be polling in general.


 - Josiah



From Norton_AntiVirus_Gateways at eumetsat.de  Thu Oct  7 17:07:36 2004
From: Norton_AntiVirus_Gateways at eumetsat.de (Norton_AntiVirus_Gateways at eumetsat.de)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 23:07:36 +0200
Subject: Virus detected
Message-ID: <200410072107.i97L7aQ08499@blizzard.eumetsat.de>

You sent a virus-infected mail. Information about the detected virus is added to this alert.


--- Scan information follows ---

Result: Virus Detected
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--- Original message information follows ---

From: python-list at python.org
To: brenda at eumetsat.de
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 00:13:13 +0300
Subject: Returned mail: Data format error
Message-Id: <200410072107.i97L7SQ08479 at blizzard.eumetsat.de>
Received: from blizzard.eumetsat.de ([193.17.8.104])
 by mailscan.eumetsat.de (NAVGW 2.5.2.9) with SMTP id M2004100723060509356
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From pln at cosmic.stanford.edu  Tue Oct 26 12:46:01 2004
From: pln at cosmic.stanford.edu (Patrick L. Nolan)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:46:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: os.popen3 with windows; help?
References: <rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>
	<81a41dd.0410260035.60aee489@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cllv09$kv9$1@news.Stanford.EDU>

Lad <export at hope.cz> wrote:
> "Russell E. Owen" <rowen at cesmail.net> wrote in message news:<rowen-1B99F3.15314025102004 at gnus01.u.washington.edu>...
>> I'm trying to launch an application from Python 2.3 on Windows. The 
>> application is "ds9" (an image viewer), and is installed in C:\Program 
>> Files\ds9\ds9
>> 
>> On unix I just do:
>> os.popen3("ds9")
>> and close the returned files and all is good. (I'm not trying to 
>> communicate with the program via popen3 and so had been using 
>> os.spawnlp, but that doesn't exist on Windows.)
>> 
>> On Windows os.popen3("ds9") does nothing, and the stderr returned from 
>> os.popen3 has a message saying the program is unknown.
>> 
>> So I tried being specific:
>> os.popen3("C:\\Program Files\\ds9\\ds9")
>> This also fails and the program that is not found is "C:\Program", 
>> suggesting that the space in "Program Files" is causing the problem. The 
>> following failed in exactly the same way:
>> os.popen3("C:\\Program\ Files\\ds9\\ds9")
>> 
>> Any suggestions?
>> 
>> -- Russell
>> 
>> P.S. I installed the app using its Windows binary installer, which 
>> unpacks a few files in C:\\Program files\. Windows doesn't seem to know 
>> the program exists; it's not in the task bar, for example. But one can 
>> double-click it to run it.

> I think the problem is in long name folder: Program Files. So, try

> Progra~1 instead of Program Files

An automatic way to accomplish this is

import win32api
shortpath = win32api.GetShortPathName(path)
os.popen3(shortpath)

Also, I have found by bitter experience that ds9 is unable to open any
file whose path includes a space.  Put your data files somewhere else.

-- 
*   Patrick L. Nolan                                          *
*   W. W. Hansen Experimental Physics Laboratory (HEPL)       * 
*   Stanford University                                       *


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Oct 12 07:51:59 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:51:59 +0200
Subject: documentation files - where to install ?
References: <2t1kf1F1r2ehtU1@uni-berlin.de> <ckg6vt$qhb$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<416BBA1E.4070807@igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <ckgggc$5an$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Helmut Jarausch wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
>> Helmut Jarausch wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>So, what's the canonical installation location for the HTML documentation
>>>files (if I don't want to use the environment variable PYTHONDOCS)
>> 
>> 
>> Here's where Python 2.3 looks for the documentation:
>> 
>> <pydoc.py excerpt>
>>         homedir = os.environ.get('PYTHONHOME')
>>         for dir in [os.environ.get('PYTHONDOCS'),
>>                     homedir and os.path.join(homedir, 'doc'),
>>                     os.path.join(execdir, 'doc'),
>>                     '/usr/doc/python-docs-' + split(sys.version)[0],
>>                     '/usr/doc/python-' + split(sys.version)[0],
>>                     '/usr/doc/python-docs-' + sys.version[:3],
>>                     '/usr/doc/python-' + sys.version[:3],
>>                     os.path.join(sys.prefix,
>> 'Resources/English.lproj/Documentation')]:
>>             if dir and os.path.isdir(os.path.join(dir, 'lib')):
>>                 self.docdir = dir
>> </pydoc.py excerpt>
>> 
>> I've got the impression there may be a 'break' missing.
> 
> Strangely, it looks the same here (Python 2.4 installed in 
> /usr/local/lib/python2.4) I would have expected something like
> /usr/local/lib/python2.4/doc So, I'd like to suggest to add a 'configure'
> option for this.

No patience to read up http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html right
now, but if there is a standard location for documentation concerning
programs installed from source (/usr/local/share/doc/pythonXXX with the
proper version suffix maybe?) it could just be added to the hardcoded paths
in pydoc.py. 
What would you expect the configure option to do?

Peter



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Oct 18 14:22:50 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:22:50 -0500
Subject: Improving Pydoc  and submitting changes:)
In-Reply-To: <18282ecb.0410180950.69c469ab@posting.google.com>
References: <18282ecb.0410180950.69c469ab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041018182249.GA5195@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 10:50:47AM -0700, M.E.Farmer wrote:
>       2) pydoc changes .... Jeff Epler may have already submitted some of this
>                             I used his patch as a starting point.

No, I haven't submitted these changes.

Jeff
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 13:02:20 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:02:20 +0200
Subject: metaclass and customization with parameters
References: <mailman.4429.1097076458.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gl90rv.nw9qmkf678kfN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Robert Brewer <fumanchu at amor.org> wrote:
   ...
> > > > >>> class MyClass:
> > > > ...         for i in range(10):
> > > > ...                 def newmethod(self,i=i):
> > > > ...                         print "I'm method #%d" % i
> > > > ...                 newname = "method%d" % i
> > > > ...                 locals()[newname] = newmethod
   ...
> Hmmm. I would have guessed that i isn't available to the class until the
> class statement is finished executing; that is, when newmethod is

Nope, just add a 'print i' before the 'def' here to see this (but even
the use in the i=i should show that already, no?)

> defined, there is not yet any MyClass class object in which to look up
> i. Therefore, newmethod uses LOAD_GLOBAL. But I'm just guessing.

Nope -- there isn't a class object, but there IS a locals dictionary (of
the temporary anonymous function object which wraps the class body's
codeobject during execution of the classbody as part of the 'class'
statement) and that's where i gets looked up in the classbody itself...
but NOT in nested functions -- to keep compatibility with past versions
of Python, is _my_ guess...


Alex


From eric_brunel at despammed.com  Wed Oct 13 04:32:48 2004
From: eric_brunel at despammed.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:32:48 +0200
Subject: murdering tkinter programs
In-Reply-To: <416c795e$0$20124$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
References: <416c795e$0$20124$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <416ce66b$0$7229$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

jeff wrote:
> At the start of a Tkinter program, you create a root window and then start
> the mainloop().
> 
> So why isn't it standard practice to do the reverse when shutting down the
> program, via an exit command or quit button ?
> - that is, call .quit() first, then .destroy()
> 
> All the tutorials and introductions only seem to call destroy() in their
> example programs.

Well, this is actually using a side-effect of the destroy method on the main 
application window, which actually quits the main loop. But you are perfectly 
right; one should do:

from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()
Button(root, text='Quit', command=root.quit).pack()
root.mainloop()
root.destroy()

So clicking on the button actually quits the main loop, but does not actually 
destroy anything; you can see that by adding a time.sleep(2) after the 
root.mainloop(). This is usually not considered as a problem, because Tkinter 
programs rarely have anything left to do after the main loop is over. So the 
next thing that happens is that the Python interpreter actually exits, and the 
window disappear.

Note also that the quit method is available on all Tkinter widgets, and always 
quits the main loop:

from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()
b = Button(root, text='Quit')
b['command'] = b.quit
b.pack()
root.mainloop()
root.destroy()

This can be quite handy if you're in a module that doesn't know anything about 
the main window, but that can make the program quit anyway.
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric (underscore) brunel (at) despammed (dot) com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Fri Oct 22 15:52:18 2004
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:52:18 -0400
Subject: C binding to transfer matrices from C to Python and from Python
 to C
References: <mailman.5319.1098454429.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnkhdomedjh.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

Nils Wagner <nwagner at mecha.uni-stuttgart.de> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> Has someone written a C binding to transfer matrices from C to Python
> and vice versa ?

Is your question more along the lines of "I have an algorithm written
in C that operates on matrices; how do I call it from Python?"

I presume you want Numeric or numarray matrices.

>From easy to hard (and less to more powerful :-):

- f2py will wrap C code. However, last I checked, the documentation
  isn't the clearest on how to do this.
- weave in scipy (and I know you use scipy ;-). This allows you to
  write C code inline; I think you can link with an external routine.
- pyrex is a Python-like language for writing extensions. To access
  arrays, you'll have to include some definitions of the appropiate
  array types from the Numeric or numarray headers.
- use SWIG to generate wrappers. You'll have to do a bit of work with
  typemaps for passing arrays around.
- writing a C extension by hand. See the Python docs about writing
  extensions, and the Numeric and numarray docs about the C API.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From holbertr at dma.org  Tue Oct 12 13:43:49 2004
From: holbertr at dma.org (Rick Holbert)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:43:49 -0400
Subject: file comparisons
References: <df19e346.0410120805.608ada7e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckh54l$2ik$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

Scott,

The following example is based on code from The Standard Python Library:

http://effbot.org/zone/librarybook-index.htm

import filecmp

if filecmp.cmp("folder1/file.ext", "folder2/another.ext"):
    print "file contents are the same"
else:
    print "file contents differ"


Scott Carlson wrote:

> Still new to Python, but liking it.
> 
> Using Windows.
> 
> Synopsis:
> 
> I create some files in a Temporary Folder while doing some work.
> 
> Then, I want to look in a (different)Primary Folder to see if
> similarly named Files exist.
> 
> If I find two Files with the same name, I want to know if the contents
> of the Files are exactly the same (I don't care about the date/time of
> the File).
> 
> If they are different I want to move the new one into the Primary
> Folder.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking there's a nice concise way to do this.
> 
> Thanks,
> Scott Carlson



From carribeiro at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 07:25:06 2004
From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:25:06 -0300
Subject: Re-executing the code object from a class 'declaration'
In-Reply-To: <1gl8dkd.1mk43di1xi6v0dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.4404.1097028568.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gl8dkd.1mk43di1xi6v0dN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864d3709041006042567b25e58@mail.gmail.com>

In respectful consideration to Alex's opposition to the misuse of the
word 'declaration', here is a repost with the suggested changes:
---
As part of a pet project of mine, I needed to find a way to re-execute
a class statement. The reason behind it was simple: the class
statement in question had some external dependencies that could
potentially change during the lifetime of the program. I needed to be
able to execute the class statement block again to produce new
classes (in opposition to new instances, which would not solve my
problem)[1].

I solved the problem using inspect to find the current code object
*inside* the class statement, and stored it in an attribute of the
class itself. Then, a method of the class can be used to re-create it.
A metaclass-enabled version is shown below:

class Meta(type):
   def __new__(klass, name, bases, dct):
       dct['my_code'] = inspect.currentframe(1).f_code
       return type(name, bases, dct)

class MyClass:
   __metaclass__ = Meta
   creation_time = time.ctime()
   print "I'm inside my class definition!"
   def re_execute(klass):
       exec klass.my_code
       return MyClass
   re_execute = classmethod(re_execute)

Testing:

>>> class MyClass:
       ...
I'm inside my class definition!
>>> id(MyClass)
8737376
>>> MyClass.creation_time
'Tue Oct 05 21:50:25 2004'
>>> NewClass = MyClass.re_execute()
I'm inside my class definition!
>>> id(NewClass)
8736912
>>> NewClass.creation_time
'Tue Oct 05 21:51:20 2004'

Implementation notes:

1) The exec statement actually binds the name to the same original
name, but in the current local scope. That's why it does a 'return
MyClass' in the re_execute() method. The MyClass symbol refers to the
local symbol with this name that was just re-created by the exec
method.

2) If you call the exec from the same scope where the class was
originally created, then it is automatically bound to the same name:

>>> id(MyClass)
8737376
>>> MyClass.creation_time
'Tue Oct 05 21:50:25 2004'
>>> exec MyClass.my_code
I'm inside my class definition!
>>> id(MyClass)
8744512
>>> MyClass.creation_time
'Tue Oct 05 21:56:53 2004'

3) I thought that the same technique could be made to work without a
metaclass, but I couldn't make it work. I haven't invested much time
to understand why -- it just works as implemented above. (It seems
that it does not bind correctly to the original name as it does if you
use the metaclass)

----
[1] Think about it as a templating mechanism, similar to the C++ one,
but for Python; this mechanism generates new classes that can be
instantiated as many times as needed. It's not the same thing as to
customize a instance during its initialization.

-- 
Carlos Ribeiro
Consultoria em Projetos
blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
mail: carribeiro at gmail.com
mail: carribeiro at yahoo.com


From kraus at hagen-partner.de  Thu Oct 21 02:50:52 2004
From: kraus at hagen-partner.de (Wolfram Kraus)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:50:52 +0200
Subject: mysql bulk insert from python
In-Reply-To: <2004102013263416807%dekhaus@maccom>
References: <2004102013263416807%dekhaus@maccom>
Message-ID: <cl7m89$998$1@ork-un.noris.net>

Dave Ekhaus wrote:
> hi
> 
>     my news carrier didn't have any mysql specific news groups - so 
> apologize in advance if this isn't exactly the proper group for these 
> question(s) ...
> 
>     anyway - i'm trying to figure out how to perform a bulk insert of 
> data from a text file into a table in a mysql database from the python 
> programming language.  i have lots of experience with ms sql server and 
> there we used bcp and then dts packages, but i can't seem to find the 
> analogous method for mysql - and would appreciate any tips/insight the 
> group can offer.
> 
>     fwiw - the data files contain on the order of 100,000 + records 
> (sometimes approx. 1 million), so anything but a 'bulk' solution 
> probably isn't practical.
> 
>     also - i found some reference to a 'Loader' python module, but it 
> seems to related to MaxDB and SAP.  i'm not sure what that is - and 
> would really prefer a more generic solution.
> 
> thanks
> dave
> 
The MySQL command LOAD DATA INFILE 
(http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/LOAD_DATA.html) might be what you are 
looking for, no need for python here, but you can call this command from 
any python script that uses the MySQLDB module 
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python)


HTH,
Wolfram

PS: Maybe news.gmane.org has some mysql-lists that you can try


From gshibaya at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 17:39:27 2004
From: gshibaya at gmail.com (gs)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 14:39:27 -0700
Subject: Processing XML files in CJK encodings
Message-ID: <6ea3a4e5.0410211339.2395fa29@posting.google.com>

Python gurus,

I need to parse XML files in CJK encodings like GB2312 and Ja in UTF-8.
I was using xml.dom.minidom first. It works with Ja in UTF-8, but doesn't
work with GB2312. An article says,

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2003-December/010034.html

Then I tried xml.parsers.xmlproc. It works fine with GB2312, but now it
doesn't work with Ja in UTF-8. Another article says,

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2003-September/009802.html

Is there any way to parse both of them correctly?

Thanks,
-Gen


From aisaac at american.edu  Wed Oct 27 16:07:21 2004
From: aisaac at american.edu (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:07:21 -0400
Subject: Can not get urllib.urlopen to work
References: <3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <10nvvtrt0mtj11a@corp.supernews.com>


"Pater Maximus" <emayo at home.com> wrote in message
news:3JKdnSvPhssyduLcRVn-sg at comcast.com...
> IOError: [Errno socket error] (10061, 'Connection refused')

My browser says the same thing.  ;-)
Alan Isaac




From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Oct 26 01:34:55 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:34:55 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
In-Reply-To: <slrncnrn2n.afp.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<slrncnrn2n.afp.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1098768895.22370.231.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 05:10 +0000, Sam Holden wrote:
> On 25 Oct 2004 21:25:07 -0700, kartik <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > integers are used in different ways from strings. i may expect file
> > paths to be around 100 characters, and if i get a 500-character path,
> > i have no problem just because of the length. but if a person's age is
> > 500 where i expect it to be less than 100, then **definitely**
> > something's wrong.
> 
> What if Noah is using your program?

Then Python clearly needs a special mode so that when a person's age is
entered large numbers are allowed, but when counting animals it throws
an exception if the number is greater than two.

Duh.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Oct 29 03:09:13 2004
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:09:13 +0200
Subject: distutils and MSI
In-Reply-To: <clso0n$duf$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
References: <u1xfkk00q.fsf@rk-speed-rugby.dk>
	<417fe349$0$202$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<clso0n$duf$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <4181EC99.7050901@v.loewis.de>

David Fraser wrote:
> I've meant to look into this but haven't had a chance
> Is it possible to use this to create msi installers for python modules? 

Certainly. The tricky part would be to find out where the Python
installation is, if this is going to be in the spirit of bdist_wininst.
This might require a custom action.

> Is there a distutils plugin to do this?

Not yet, but I hope to write one some day.

Regards,
Martin


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 08:51:26 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 05:51:26 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>	<cljen7$n67$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>	<940ee3e8.0410252005.25a94170@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5482.1098767004.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<940ee3e8.0410262000.6e34568f@posting.google.com>
	<lNudnb33tMnarOLcRVn-qw@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410270451.1b6b1d5c@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<lNudnb33tMnarOLcRVn-qw at powergate.ca>...
> kartik wrote:
> > thank u so much 4 your help, but i know what i'm saying without
> > assistance from clowns like u. & i dont give a damn about your rules 4
> > proper communciation, as long as i'm understood.
> 
> I feel the need to point out in the above the parallel (and equally
> mistaken) logic with your comments in the rest of the thread.
> 
> In the thread you basically are saying "I want high quality
> code, but I refuse to do the thing that will give it to me
> (writing good tests) as long as a tiny subset of possible bugs
> are caught by causing overflow errors at an arbitrary limit".
> 
> Above you are basically saying "I want to be understood,
> but I refuse to do the thing that will make it easy for me
> to be understood (using proper grammer and spelling) as
> long as it's possible for people to laboriously decipher
> what I'm trying to say".

Sorry


From robin at reportlab.com  Thu Oct  7 06:16:47 2004
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:16:47 +0100
Subject: correct way to detect container type
In-Reply-To: <ck33gj$3ah$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <41650CAE.704@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>
	<ck33gj$3ah$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4165178F.1080300@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Peter Otten wrote:

> I prefer 
> 
> isinstance(var, (list, tuple))
> 
> to the above, but I don't think there is one correct way. Often you don't
> want a full-blown container, just an iterable. Then
> 
> try:
>     it = iter(var)
> except TypeError:
>     it = iter([var])
> 
> may be more appropriate. However, you will end up iterating over the
> characters if var is a string, which often has to be guarded against with
> an additional isinstance(basestring) test
> 
> try:
>     iter(var)
> except TypeError:
>     var = [var]
> else:
>     if isinstance(var, basestring): var = [var]
> 
> Peter
> 
lots of good ideas, but I think this breaks in 2.1 which we're still supporting. 
As do some of the iteration ideas.
-- 
Robin Becker


From adonisv at DELETETHISTEXTearthlink.net  Sun Oct  3 22:18:45 2004
From: adonisv at DELETETHISTEXTearthlink.net (Adonis)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 02:18:45 GMT
Subject: [OT-Slightly] Sun Micro engineers bashing Java,
	and mentioning Python even Eiffel
Message-ID: <9q28d.2727$Vm1.636@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>

I do not know if this was ever posted on here but check this Sun Micro 
internal memo out:

http://www.internalmemos.com/memos/memodetails.php?memo_id=1321

Here is the paragraph where it is mentioned:

A study performed by an outside team appears to indicate a rough parity in 
performance between Java and a common implementation of another OO language 
called Python (see IEEE Computing, October 2000, "An Empirical Comparison of 
Seven Programming Languages" by Lutz Prechelt of the University of 
Karlsruhe). Both platforms are Object Oriented, support web applications, 
serialization, internet connections and native interfaces. The key 
difference is that Python is a scripting language. This means there is no 
compilation to byte code so the Python runtime environment has to do two 
things in addition to what the Java runtime environment does. It has to 
perform syntax checks and it must parse the ascii text provided by the 
programmer. Both of those tasks are performed at compile time by Java and so 
that capability does not have to be in the JRE.
Given this data, it appears that the JRE can actually be simpler than the 
Python RE since Java does at least some of this work at compile time. The 
example above of "Hello World" is a good method for getting an idea of the 
minimum support code required at runtime. This support code includes garbage 
collector, byte code interpreter, exception processor and the like. Hello 
World written in Java2 requires 9M for this most basic support 
infrastructure. By comparison, this is slightly larger than automountd on 
Solaris8. The Python runtime required to execute Hello World is roughly 
1.6M.

Adonis




From mdione at grulic.org.ar  Mon Oct 11 14:25:06 2004
From: mdione at grulic.org.ar (Marcos Dione)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:25:06 -0300
Subject: passing a socket to a spawned process.
In-Reply-To: <5d00592f.0410110923.2bb2b1ea@posting.google.com>
References: <5d00592f.0410110923.2bb2b1ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20041011182506.GD27490@plantalta.homelinux.net>

On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 10:23:27AM -0700, Mike M wrote:
> Is it possible?  In the parent process, I have a socket that binds,
> listens and then accepts new connections (which creates new sockets in
> the process).  I want to be able to pass some of these new sockets to
> a spawned process.  Is it possible, and if so how?

  just accept() before fork()'ing. the socket will be cloned. then close the
socket on the parent, unless needed.

-- 
(Not so) Random fortune:
(Really) Random fortune:
mdione at tempest:~$ cat /dev/random | uuencode random | head -n 3
begin 644 random
M=?:,8:@5MVVIM6>NAYQ6O at I&H86>.3(L"F7S>U'.9`2;%LEAR/E8M[*F=(MP
M5C>B3Y2F(X,`SW1UPAL*+OIV'EM/Z$_-15':B#<6I99_P,H%=$S6$H<&W-!;


From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Wed Oct 13 10:39:22 2004
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:39:22 -0400
Subject: Order in metaclass
In-Reply-To: <ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <RnWad.27059$3C6.973079@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<ckik0e$b2n$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <r6bbd.32140$3C6.1280591@news20.bellglobal.com>

Peter Otten wrote:
> If you want to record the order of these definitions, you need to pass a
> custom dictionary that keeps track of assignments in the class generation
> code (basically a normal python function comprising the class suite).
> Unfortunately that dictionary - which you see later as the classdict
> parameter of the metaclass __new__() method - is always a dict created in C,
> as was recently discussed on c.l.py (sorry, but all keywords I remember are
> 'metaclass' and 'martelli' - not very selective :-). Below is my (clumsy)
> attempt for a workaround:
> 
> import itertools
> 
> class OrderedValue(object):
>     newIndex = itertools.count(1).next
>     def __init__(self, value):
>         self.value = value
>         self.index = self.newIndex()

That's the solution I finally did after my post (I think I found the 
thread you were referring to).  In my case, having to create instances 
has not been so bad, as I can use them to put other information:

class SomeClass(BinType):
     x = Member(Int32)
     y = Member(Int16)

class SomeOtherClass(BinType):
     a = ArrayMember(Int16, size=256)
     b = Member(SomeClass)
     c = Member(Int32)

This way, I can generate abstract documentation of my binary formats 
without instantiating my types and can instantiate them to dump binary data.

Thx and Regards,
Nicolas


From dbickett at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 12:49:39 2004
From: dbickett at gmail.com (Daniel Bickett)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:49:39 -0400
Subject: Windows XP Balloon Tips?
Message-ID: <1d6cdae3041011094946722f33@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

The truth is I despise windows xp balloon tips. Well, not so much the
balloon tips, but how they're used by the operating system: like I
need my system tray to tell me when there are "unused icons" on my
desktop, or that "local disk" has less than 200 mb of free space. But
I digress

I liked the way GTray told me when I had new mail using the balloon
tip, and so when I replicated the program in python for use with
Private Messages on message boards, I naturally was interested in how
to achieve the same result.

I've searched comp.lang.python, google, the python chm, and the python
for windows chm, and none of them have yielded a single result.
When the Python for Windows docs didn't have anything I figured it
just wasn't possible yet, but I decided to ask here anyway. So, does
anyone know of a way to use the Windows XP Balloon Tip feature with
python? (namely wxPython, considering that's the GUI I use)

Thanks for your time,
Daniel Bickett


From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Wed Oct 27 05:02:29 2004
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:02:29 +0200
Subject: High volume websites using Python web server software?
References: <417ee2ab$0$43451$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <87r7nko7oa.fsf@chat.blakie.riol>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -nospam-remove-this-xs4all.nl> writes:

> Hi,
> Things like Twisted, medusa, etc.... that claim to be able
> to support hundreds of concurrent connections because of the
> async I/O framework they're based on....
> can someone give a few examples of some web sites actually
> using those Python frameworks?

online scrabble game : http://seps.flibuste.net with more than 650.000
hits/day

I used twisted to can use the jabber and telnet protocol.

-- 
Wilk - http://flibuste.net


From jbors at mail.ru  Sun Oct 24 18:02:23 2004
From: jbors at mail.ru (Dmitry Borisov)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:02:23 -0700
Subject: MP3s, M4As and all that jazz
References: <e3d042c8041024115915940fb8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <010601c4ba15$25904d30$0200a8c0@amr.corp.intel.com>

From: "Neil Benn" <neil.benn at gmail.com>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 11:59 AM
Subject: MP3s, M4As and all that jazz


> Hello,
>
>           Does anyone know of a python module that can be used to
> convert MP3s to M4A.  The reason is that iTunes ripped everything to
> M4As (all 450 of my CDS) and M4As don't work in my Creative Zen
> jukebox (I'm not a fully signed up member to the cult of Steve
> Jobs!!).  The google searches are too polluted by ogg converters and I
> can't find an MP3 one.
>
>     Any tips greatly appreciated.

Neil,
PyMedia is capable of converting numerous formats from/to. The latest
version 1.2.3.0 that to be released in 2 weeks will have AAC/MP4A format as
well.
http://pymedia.org/

Dmitry/



From z at b.com  Thu Oct 21 20:51:10 2004
From: z at b.com (JZ)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 02:51:10 +0200
Subject: MySQLdb and MySQL 4.1 server :(
Message-ID: <34z0t1sfx8wa$.lcn7b3aki5sg.dlg@40tude.net>

MySQLdb 1.0 cannot connect to MySQL 4.1 server when the user has non-empty
password :(

_mysql_exceptions.OperationalError: (1251, 'Client does not support
authentication protocol requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL
client')

--
JZ


From k04jg02 at kzoo.edu  Fri Oct  8 19:15:59 2004
From: k04jg02 at kzoo.edu (dataangel)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:15:59 -0400
Subject: Why can't I xor strings?
In-Reply-To: <20041008210743.GB7404@unununium.org>
References: <4166F64A.5080504@kzoo.edu>
	<20041008204409.GA5869@unununium.org>	<4166FF29.1000704@kzoo.edu>
	<20041008210743.GB7404@unununium.org>
Message-ID: <41671FAF.2050406@kzoo.edu>

Phil Frost wrote:

>On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 04:57:13PM -0400, dataangel wrote:
>  
>
>>Phil Frost wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>^ is the bitwise xor operator. Performing bitwise operations on strings
>>>doesn't make much sense, so it's invalid. You can define a logical xor
>>>function like so:
>>>
>>>xor = lambda p, q: (p and not q) or (not p and q)
>>>
>>>or equivalently:
>>>
>>>xor = lambda p, q: bool(p) != bool(q)
>>>
>>>On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 04:19:22PM -0400, dataangel wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I wrote a function to compare whether two strings are "similar" because 
>>>>I'm using python to make a small text adventure engine and I want to it 
>>>>to be responsive to slight mispellings, like "inevtory" and the like. To 
>>>>save time the first thing my function does is check if I'm comparing an 
>>>>empty vs. a non-empty string, because they are to be never considered 
>>>>similar. Right now I have to write out the check like this:
>>>>
>>>> if str1 and str2:
>>>>     if not str1 or not str2:
>>>>         return 0
>>>>
>>>>Because python won't let me do str1 ^ str2. Why does this only work for 
>>>>numbers? Just treat empty strings as 0 and nonempty as 1.
>>>>
>>>>Regardless of whether this is the best implementation for detecting if 
>>>>two strings are similar, I don't see why xor for strings shouldn't be 
>>>>supported. Am I missing something? Inparticular, I think it'd be cool to 
>>>>have "xor" as opposed to "^". The carrot would return the resulting 
>>>>value, while "xor" would act like and/or do and return the one that was 
>>>>true (if any).
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Urk, ran into a little trouble with your code (the first one):
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>>xor("", "") == False
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>False
>>    
>>
>>>>>xor("", "") == True
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>False
>>
>>I'm a python newbie so I'm not sure how something can niether evaluate 
>>to be true nor false at the same time :P Bug?
>>    
>>
>
>
>Sorry, I didn't read your problem well enough. False xor False == False
>by definition; the problem is that xor is not what you want. In your
>example:
>
>if str1 and str2:
>  if not str1 or not str2:
>    return 0
>
>"return 0" will never be reached. In order for "str1 and str2" to be
>true, both strings must be not empty. Your test within that, "if not
>str1 or not str2" says "if either string is empty...", which isn't
>possible, since you just tested that neither is empty. What you probably
>want is this:
>
>if not (str1 and str2):
>  # at least one string is empty
>  
>
Sorry, was confusing what logical or does with what bitwise or does ;)

And the reason the xor example confused me was because == was testing if 
it was the false object, which is not what I wanted, I wanted to know if 
its boolean equivalent was (which if implicitly casts stuff to).



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Thu Oct 14 02:18:37 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:18:37 -0700
Subject: Reimplenting Linux Kernel in Python
In-Reply-To: <416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <10mrba51r9dql4f@corp.supernews.com>
	<mailman.4916.1097709895.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dc1ba$0$23226$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.4920.1097716237.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416dd9fd$0$23206$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1097734717.12092.353.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 01:44 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2004-10-14, Carlos Ribeiro <carribeiro at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >>> Besides that, Linux is Posix compliant and emulates Unix
> >>> system calls to a large extend, and that also makes C a
> >>> natural choice.
> >> 
> >> Not sure I follow on that point.  Any low level language that
> >> can deal with a C "struct" and byte-addressible memory would be
> >> fine.
> >
> > Well, Unix itself was written in C,
> 
> Originally it wasn't, but recent versions are.

'Recent' meaning since 1974?  ;)

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From ndbecker2 at verizon.net  Wed Oct 13 13:43:14 2004
From: ndbecker2 at verizon.net (Neal D. Becker)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:43:14 -0400
Subject: sequence of objects
References: <ckjgg5$8h1$1@sea.gmane.org> <416D4F73.6050801@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <ckjpfi$75r$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jeremy Jones wrote:

> Neal D. Becker wrote:
> 
>>What is the recommended way to create a sequence of objects?  Assume the
>>objects have a default constructor:
>>
>>class X:
>>  def __init__(self):
>>    something
>>
>>This doesn't work:
>>a = 64*(X(),)
>>
>>This creates a tuple of 64 copies of a single identical object, not 64
>>instances of X.
>>
>>I could create an empty list, then call append (X()) 64 times, but that's
>>not very eligant (or maybe efficient).  Any suggestions?
>>
>>  
>>
> The answer is, "it depends on what you are trying to do."  Here is _a_
> solution:
> 
> 
> In [5]: class X:
>    ...:     def __init__(self, id):
>    ...:         self.id = id
>    ...:
> 
> In [6]: def gen_64():
>    ...:     for i in range(64):
>    ...:         yield X(i)
>    ...:
> 
> 
> And if you want to iterate through them, you can do something like:
> 
> 
> In [7]: for i in gen_64():
>    ...:     print i, i.id
> 

Sorry, poorly phrased.  I mean a "container of objects", not "sequence of
objects".  For example, a list of 64 X instances.  I did notice that this
can be done with Numeric array also.



From Virus_Research at avertlabs.com  Sun Oct 24 01:41:27 2004
From: Virus_Research at avertlabs.com (Virus Research)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:41:27 -0700
Subject: 1472560 - uyieuvhg
Message-ID: <C31CC9E29153D41182CB00D0B78F69610B321A7C@AVERT-EXCHANGE1>

AVERT Labs - Beaverton

Current Scan Engine Version:4.3.20

Current DAT Version:4400

Thank you for your submission.


Analysis ID: 1472560

File Name            Findings                       Detection
Type         Extra
--------------------|------------------------------|------------------------
----|------------|-----
readme.pif          |current detection             |w32/lovgate.x at mm
|Virus       |no   

current detection [readme.pif]


   The file received is infected and can be detected and removed with our
current DAT     
files and engine. It is recommended that you update your DAT and engine
files and scan 
your computer again. If you are not seeing this with the product you are
using, please 
speak with technical support so that they can help you determine the cause
of this     
discrepancy.


To find detailed information about viruses and other malware, please review
AVERT?s    
Virus Information Library:


http://vil.mcafeesecurity.com


In order to get the fastest possible response, you may wish to submit future

virus-samples to:


https://www.webimmune.net/default.asp


In most cases it can respond almost instantly with a solution. This may also
be the    
best option if you are having a problem with gateway scanners stripping your
sample    
submission.


If you believe your computer is infected, but are unsure which files should
be         
submitted to AVERT for review, please visit:


http://vil.mcafeesecurity.com/vil/submit-sample.asp


For other virus-related information, please review the AVERT homepage at:


http://www.avertlabs.com


Support ?


Virus Research accepts file-samples for analysis and possible inclusion into
AV        
signature DAT sets. We are also prepared to answer general virus questions.
All        
product-related questions and comments can be addressed through technical
support and  
customer service, including:


* Product installation and update questions

* Product usage questions

* Specific operating system/version questions

* Assistance with detection and cleaning or removal of viruses or trojans


Use the following link to update your DAT and scan engine to the most
current version: 

http://www.mcafeesecurity.com/us/downloads/updates/


Use the following links to reach online technical support for McAfee
products -        

Corporate Customers:


http://www.mcafeesecurity.com/us/support/


Single User/Retail Customers:


http://www.mcafeehelp.com


Note ?


Due to the prevalence of network gateway AV products, it is important that
all         
submissions be zipped and the zip file password-protected (password -
infected). Some  
products will reject an email that contains a virus that is not sent in this
way. In   
addition, often we receive a file that appears not to have been infected, to
find      
later that the file was infected when it left the sender, and was cleaned
somewhere    
along the line.


Regards,




McAfee AVERT tm

A division of McAfee, Inc



From jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se  Mon Oct 25 03:01:08 2004
From: jgrahn-nntq at algonet.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 25 Oct 2004 07:01:08 GMT
Subject: Some more notes
References: <5c882bb5.0410211416.5a4a3c66@posting.google.com>
	<qnksm87ee8z.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<5c882bb5.0410230137.6c82768f@posting.google.com>
	<QPmdndr7xOOG-efcRVn-vQ@powergate.ca>
	<slrncnntlt.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>
	<KtGdnQJKpLvjruHcRVn-tg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <slrncnp912.36f.jgrahn-nntq@frailea.sa.invalid>

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:58:06 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:01:00 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>>That's not necessary in almost all cases.  Windows happily(*)
>>>accepts forward slashes in all system calls.  The only place
>>>it does not is in the *shell* (aka command.com and cmd.exe).
>> 
>> IIRC, forward slashes have been acceptable since way back in early MS-DOS --
>> although someone somewhere on Usenet suggested that Microsoft have never
>> commited to keeping it that way.
> 
> I know that there was an un(der)documented control somewhere that
> allowed one to change even DOS to accept hyphens in place of
> forward slashes as the "switch" indicator for command line options,
> but this is the first time I've heard it suggested that even
> the DOS "APIs" (I use the term loosely... the interrupt routines
> barely qualify for that title :-) ) would allow forward slashes
> as the Windows APIs (always?) have.
> 
> Does anyone have a reference for that?

[ greps his ~/News/* ]

Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++.moderated
Message-ID: <d6652001.0311100414.3e5f3635 at posting.google.com>

  MS-DOS operating system requests (e.g. open), and those of Windows, have
  always, from the very first, accepted either '\' or '/' as a directory
  separator, and still do today.  There is really not the slightest need to
  use '\' for this in a string constant.

... followed by a lot of other interesting stuff.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@       Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
\X/                algonet.se>   R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!


From fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl  Wed Oct 27 18:25:10 2004
From: fiedzia at fiedzia.prv.pl (Maciej Dziardziel)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:25:10 +0200
Subject: Collating Text and Images
References: <mailman.5592.1098909346.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20041027222510.2F79.1.NOFFLE@fiedzia.homeip.net>

Greg Lindstrom wrote:

> I have an interesting problem.  I have a (one) text file containing
> multiple
> reports.  I have multiple TIF files, one for each page in the report file.
> What I would like to do is merge the two files into one print job so that
> I get a text page then the corresponding image, then the next text page,
> then
> the next corresponding image, etc.  Currently we have 2 people doing the
> collation by hand every day; this would save am immense amount of labor at
> our shop. The work is being performed on an HP-9000 running UNIX and I can
> read and process the text file, but can not figure out how to insert the
> images into the print stream.  Can anyone help me out?

Basicly use something that can produce postscript - like latex or lout,
generate template, convert to ps, send to printer. On any unix system this
will be trivial shell one-liner that can be run from cron.

-- 
Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl)
www.fiedzia.prv.pl

Is Santa so jolly because he knows where all the bad girls live?


From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Oct 13 02:48:05 2004
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:48:05 +0200
Subject: gettext support for Linux and Windows
References: <XAXad.121193$35.6044796@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.13.06.48.05.484678@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:59:35 +0000 schrieb Daniele:

> Dearest,

[cut]

> Running my apps on windows I can't see any translated string.
> Please, help me!

Hi,

You can put print statements into gettext.py to find out what is
going on.

HTH,
 Thomas


From jmowbray2003 at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 20 04:46:16 2004
From: jmowbray2003 at hotmail.com (John Mowbray)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:46:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Can Python run on the Internet
Message-ID: <cl58ko$2l0$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

I'd like to use Python in my classes, but some students do not have a 
pc.  They do have access to Internet-connected systems, though.  Is 
there a site someplace on the Internet (preferably a web server) where 
someone can submit a Python program to be run?  Telnet may be possible 
to use, but a browser would be ideal.

John


From b.niemann at betternet.de  Thu Oct  7 07:03:45 2004
From: b.niemann at betternet.de (Benjamin Niemann)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:03:45 +0200
Subject: generating emails from Python
In-Reply-To: <4edc17eb.0410070159.1b9e670f@posting.google.com>
References: <4edc17eb.0410070159.1b9e670f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ck37il$v0j$1@online.de>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> Is it possible, using email.MIMEMessage, to generate an email with
> both HTML and plain text content, in such a way that:
> 1) it is displayed as HTML if the email client recognizes HTML;
> 2) it is displayed as plain text if the email client is HTML impaired?
> 
> I realize that the answer is most probably no, but one can always hope
yep, you can:

     outer = MIMEMultipart("alternative")
     outer['Subject'] = subject
     outer['To'] = email_to
     outer['From'] = email_from
     outer.preamble = 'You will not see this in a MIME-aware mail reader.\n'
     # To guarantee the message ends with a newline
     outer.epilogue = ''

     part = MIMEText(your_plain_message, "plain", "iso-8859-1")
     outer.attach(part)

     part = MIMEText(your_html_message, "html", "iso-8859-1")
     outer.attach(part)


From me at privacy.net  Fri Oct 15 16:06:16 2004
From: me at privacy.net (Dan Sommers)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 16:06:16 -0400
Subject: quoting %
References: <863c0ihmz7.fsf@mut.mteege.de>
	<mailman.4848.1097675497.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2sm8fiw5j.fsf@unique.fully.qualified.domain.name.yeah.right>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:27:10 +0200,
Andreas Kostyrka <andreas at kostyrka.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 01:32:38PM +0200, Matthias Teege wrote:

>> Moin,

>> I need a string like this "foo '%value%'" for a database query but
>> print "'%%s%'"%value gives me TypeError: not all arguments converted
>> during string formatting. How does I quote the "%" sign in this case?

> Try: "'%%%s%%'"

Be careful with the quotation marks, too; consider the case that value
contains a quotation mark (or an apostrophe).

I don't know what kind of database and/or API you're using, but DB-API
compliant (Python PEP 249) libraries will put the right quotation marks
(if any) around your strings *and* quote any internal troublesome
characters correctly.

HTH,
Dan

-- 
Dan Sommers
<http://www.tombstonezero.net/dan/>
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Fri Oct 29 18:39:13 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:39:13 +0200
Subject: Multiple XML-RPC calls over the same connection?
References: <pan.2004.10.29.10.00.18.355872@fakehost.com>
	<mailman.5652.1099050368.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ueq45F2a9e6eU2@uni-berlin.de>
	<6c6a52-r5t.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>
	<clu3cd$oe$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<pan.2004.10.30.00.47.53.108306@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <clugqd$ukm$04$1@news.t-online.com>

 
> XML-RPC was designed from the get go to be very, very simple, as in
> "person skilled in a language ought to be able to get one going in a
> matter of hours". It breaks out of that domain, but it is nice to have a
> cross-platform RPC mechanism that meets that description. If I want to get
> a weather report for zip-code XXXXX, I shouldn't need CORBA.

And not much beyond that - more or less all serious applications have _some_
sort of authentication scheme - and thus associating state with a
connection is neccessary in nearly all but the most trivial applications. 

And I think we can agree that these days a object orientied interface is how
apis are designed, and thats also beyond the scope of xmlrpc/soap.

Its not so complicated to get a corba server running - at least imho.
Writing a idl is a thing every programmer should be able to do. if its a
well-designed one - well, thats a totally different beast, and beyond rpc
in general - but the inherent clumsiness of xmlrpc/soap based interface
doesn't help here, too.

> It isn't useless, but it definitely has established its niche at the lower
> end of the scale.
> 
> I would point out the XML-RPC is built on HTTP and XML and theoretically
> inherits the benefits and disadvantages of both. Specifically, if your
> server and client supported it, you should be able to use Cookie: headers
> just as you would in HTTP. That would sort of be a grey area in the
> standard.

Exactly - its grey. SOAP is grey in that field, too. So it renders e.g. .NET
and AXIS un-interoperable when more than the most trivial tasks are
planned. 

I've been in contact with xmlrpc/soap after I became aquainted with corba,
and I have to say that to me its a huge step back in time. But it gets the
attention these days, due to clever marketing and the fact that its based
on xml - something that seems to be a must these days.
-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From torsten.marek at student.uni-tuebingen.de  Wed Oct  6 12:52:18 2004
From: torsten.marek at student.uni-tuebingen.de (Torsten Marek)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:52:18 +0200
Subject: ANN: eric v. 3.5.0 available
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4323.1096964349.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <4o7532-q8g.ln1@stargate.solsys.priv>
	<mailman.4323.1096964349.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ck17s2$abj$1@newsserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>

Richie Hindle schrieb:
> [Detlev]
> 
>>I am proud to announce the immediate availability of eric v. 3.5.0.
> 
> 
> Is there any chance of a free-to-use Eric on Windows via qt3-win32
> (http://kde-cygwin.sourceforge.net/qt3-win32/)?  I Googled around and
> couldn't find anything.
> 
> Likewise, are there any online archives for the Eric mailing list?  I
> couldn't find those either (but it's Monday morning and my Google powers
> are weak).
> 
Take the PyQt/PyKDE-Mailinglist, most of the eric3 stuff is handled there:
http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde

greetings

Torsten


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  6 07:28:23 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 13:28:23 +0200
Subject: Python Macros
References: <mailman.4250.1096902840.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<KRu8d.25558$H11.796459@twister1.libero.it>
	<1gl8d5f.1xwzpge1bw12b5N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<DRP8d.26870$N45.697714@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <1gl8lbf.2q7qwd18zj9xnN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

gabriele renzi <rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it> wrote:
   ...
> better than I can, but basically it boils down to applying operations to
> a whole collection at once, in APL style.

Numeric has been doing just that for many years, and indeed using
Numeric does _feel_ to me very close to using APL in some cases, minus
the illegibility.  So, I don't see any case for changing the language.


Alex


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 08:54:31 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 29 Oct 2004 05:54:31 -0700
Subject: Python equivalent of LWP and HTTP in Perl
References: <vAbgd.24$SJ2.18@fe61.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410290454.3ede35d7@posting.google.com>

Dekaritae <maur at mdi.ca> wrote in message news:<vAbgd.24$SJ2.18 at fe61.usenetserver.com>...
> I have a script that I've written in Perl that retrieves files generated 
> from a template. It works decently enough, but I'd like to rewrite it in 
> Python (Perl was just a detour; it was originally Sed).
> 
> Was wondering what the closest thing to what I'm using now in Perl 
> (LWP::UserAgent and HTTP::Request:Common) is in Python. The main bit of 
> my code is fairly simple.
> 
>    my($ua) = LWP::UserAgent->new;
>    my $req = GET "$uri";
>    $req->header(Referer => "$referer");
>    $ua->proxy('http', 'http://localhost:8080/'); # Proxomitron
>    $response = $ua->request($req);
>    $respcode = $response->code;

urllib2 is definitely the way forward for adding proxy support and
request headers. Very easy. If you want cookie handling you'll need to
look at ClientCookie which does similar things to the perl library you
mention.

Regards,

Fuzzy
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From Anna at nospam.invalid  Sun Oct  3 19:55:14 2004
From: Anna at nospam.invalid (Ann)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 23:55:14 GMT
Subject: python vs c#
References: <mailman.3520.1095631846.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<EPmdnagKPrUPhtPcRVn-iQ@giganews.com>
	<mailman.3529.1095642828.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1gkgxts.1fq0rwq10mycqiN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<41513aac$0$285$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<1gkih9r.pfgqukvpt1rcN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<37tjl09an200u6tejkrtklc8ib86uk7rm1@4ax.com>
	<7E_6d.33917$35.1643590@news4.tin.it>
Message-ID: <Cj08d.164190$MQ5.50781@attbi_s52>


"Anna Martelli Ravenscroft" <anna at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:7E_6d.33917$35.1643590 at news4.tin.it...
> Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:18:35 +0200, rumours say that aleaxit at yahoo.com
> > (Alex Martelli) might have written:
> >
> >
> >>>Well, not to feed the troll, but there is a few relevant points in it's
> >>>posting.
> >>
> >>(Please, please, please: "its", not "it's"... pretty please...)
> >
> >
> > (Late reply that maybe can make one smile)
> >
> > Alex, you are 99% correct.  Leave a 1% chance that Max referred to
> > "julio" as "it"... :)  Trolls are genderless!
>
>
> Sorry, Christos. Alex was correct: "its" is the appropriate usage here.
> "it's" is a contraction of "it is", and NOT the possessive form of it.
> Furthermore, Alex was quite kind in *not* correcting the mismatch
> between the singular form of the verb "is" and the plural noun "points".
>   I, otoh, am not so generous.
>
> The sentence *should* have read:
> "Well, not to feed the troll, but there are a few relevant points in its
> posting."
>
> Anna (pedants-r-us) Martelli


Anna,
Just wondering, which one are you:
ped?ant (p?d?nt) noun
1. One who pays undue attention to book learning and formal rules.
2. One who exhibits one's learning or scholarship ostentatiously.
3. Obsolete. A schoolmaster.
Regards,
Ann




From jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Tue Oct 12 07:03:58 2004
From: jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:03:58 +0200
Subject: documentation files - where to install ?
In-Reply-To: <ckg6vt$qhb$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <2t1kf1F1r2ehtU1@uni-berlin.de> <ckg6vt$qhb$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <416BBA1E.4070807@igpm.rwth-aachen.de>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> 
> 
>>So, what's the canonical installation location for the HTML documentation
>>files (if I don't want to use the environment variable PYTHONDOCS)
> 
> 
> Here's where Python 2.3 looks for the documentation:
> 
> <pydoc.py excerpt>
>         homedir = os.environ.get('PYTHONHOME')
>         for dir in [os.environ.get('PYTHONDOCS'),
>                     homedir and os.path.join(homedir, 'doc'),
>                     os.path.join(execdir, 'doc'),
>                     '/usr/doc/python-docs-' + split(sys.version)[0],
>                     '/usr/doc/python-' + split(sys.version)[0],
>                     '/usr/doc/python-docs-' + sys.version[:3],
>                     '/usr/doc/python-' + sys.version[:3],
>                     os.path.join(sys.prefix,
> 'Resources/English.lproj/Documentation')]:
>             if dir and os.path.isdir(os.path.join(dir, 'lib')):
>                 self.docdir = dir
> </pydoc.py excerpt>
> 
> I've got the impression there may be a 'break' missing.

Strangely, it looks the same here (Python 2.4 installed in  /usr/local/lib/python2.4)
I would have expected something like /usr/local/lib/python2.4/doc
So, I'd like to suggest to add a 'configure' option for this.

Helmut.


From vincent at visualtrans.de  Thu Oct 28 08:38:20 2004
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:38:20 +0200
Subject: Python utility convert Windows long file name into 8.3 DOS
	format
In-Reply-To: <xn5gd.19855$SW3.5577@fed1read01>
References: <4C0gd.20216$R05.13225@attbi_s53>	<mailman.5599.1098947598.5135.python-list@python.org>	<clqc5i$l1h$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<mailman.5606.1098959524.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<clqkav$5pi$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>
	<xn5gd.19855$SW3.5577@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <clqp7q$qtd$1@news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>

Steve Holden wrote:
> vincent wehren wrote:
> 
>> Simon Brunning wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:55:16 +0200, vincent wehren
>>> <vincent at visualtrans.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just note that GetShortPathName expects a valid and accessible path in
>>>> your file system.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Which is just as it should be. Files that don't exist don't *have*
>>> short names. One might be able to put together a function that
>>> *guesses* what short name Windows would be likely to give a new file
>>> with a given long name, but it would be pretty unreliable, I reckon.
>>>
>>
>> Exactly. And on top of that, there may be situations where files that 
>> *do* exist *don't* have a 8.3 alias, making any such guesswork even 
>> harder. So in retrospect, the correct answer to OP's question should 
>> be: "No. There is no conversion utility", as the relationship between 
>> long name - short name is not on of a-to-b conversion.
>>
> well that's new information to me, so thanks - I just assumed that any 
> long filename could be munged. But I think that it's just useful 
> additional information rather than the "correct answer", since by itself 
> it would have been rather less than helpful to the OP :-)

I guess sleep deprivation has given rise to a little wickedness in my 
writing. I forget to "wink" ;) ;)

Apart from that, you won't hear me claim any authoritativeness on the 
subject of Windows file names - long or short - either - I just blindly 
trust MSDN!  ;)

Regards,

--
Vincent Wehren



> 
> regards
>  Steve


From amk at amk.ca  Fri Oct 29 08:20:53 2004
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:20:53 -0500
Subject: Data::Dumper for Python
References: <slrnco2d8k.kgh.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
	<87654u80ge.fsf@ask.g.aas.no>
	<mailman.5647.1099035739.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4KGdnbQzV8A4qB_cRVn-qA@speakeasy.net>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:34:31 -0700, 
	Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:
> Python's pprint is a fairly simple little module.  A reasonably
> experienced Python programmer could probably toss off a clone of it in a
> weekend if given a description of it.

Such as, for example, dulcinea.dumper (part of Dulcinea,
http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/dulcinea/):

>>> from dulcinea import dumper as d
>>> from ASTi.model import Model  
>>> m=Model()                    # Create an object
>>> d.dump(m)
<Model at 402e180c: <Model object at '/home/amk/.mbv/loader-test'>>
  _hc: <HydraController at 402ee86c>
  _instances: <dictionary at 0x4071fa44>: {}
  _links: None
  _mapping_file_applied: <bool at 0x8130da0>: False
  _model: <Model at 402e180c: <Model object at '/home/amk/.mbv/loader-test'>>
    object already seen
  _obj: <dictionary at 0x4071f68c>: {}
  install_error: None
  path: '/home/amk/.mbv/loader-test'
  root_dir: '/home/amk/.mbv/loader-test'
  services: <dictionary at 0x4071f79c>: {}
>>>

--amk


From rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it  Tue Oct  5 06:44:17 2004
From: rff_rff at remove-yahoo.it (gabriele renzi)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:44:17 GMT
Subject: Python Macros
In-Reply-To: <tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <41618797$0$69737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>
	<416190BE.6080802@fastmail.fm>
	<mailman.4270.1096917985.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<tyfsm8td503.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <5Wu8d.25573$H11.796921@twister1.libero.it>

Jacek Generowicz ha scritto:

> _Most_ object-oriented languages support object orientation via the
> message passing paradigm. Python included.

I disagree slightly.
I think the difference is really subtle, but there are some dict-based 
languages like python and some message-based like smalltalk.
Actually I think the discriminating is having a doesNotUnderstand:-like 
facility versus a __getattr__ one.



From flab at large.net  Thu Oct 14 02:50:21 2004
From: flab at large.net (flab ba)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:50:21 -0700
Subject: Quixote vs mod_python -nevow correction
References: <pan.2004.10.14.06.43.56.912668@large.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.14.06.50.20.984550@large.net>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:43:57 -0700, flab ba wrote:

> Hello:
> 
> Nevow looks
> promising, but I don't grok it with its limited docs. Plus I get nervous
> when there is only one developer working on it. I also get nervous about
> Twisted.
> 

Correction: I guess there are several people working on Nevow. Donovan
seems to be the leader.

-Alex


From kangell at alertra.com  Mon Oct  4 01:52:45 2004
From: kangell at alertra.com (Kirby Angell)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 00:52:45 -0500
Subject: Maximum number of threads
In-Reply-To: <96c2e938.0409300843.5ea4fcb6@posting.google.com>
References: <xbt6d.2829$gm.1283@okepread07>	<415abdaa$1_1@omega.dimensional.com>	<FuA6d.2832$gm.1483@okepread07>
	<mailman.4084.1096472866.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<96c2e938.0409300843.5ea4fcb6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Ky58d.33030$7k.1166@okepread05>

Just to finish off this thread...

You can set the constant in the header file I mentioned, but you can 
also just do (on Linux):

ulimit -s <stacksize>

to set the stack size that will be used.  I can control how many threads 
my Python apps can create by setting this to different values.  You'll 
probably also want to set the number of files (ulimit -n) to something 
different if you are creating a socket in each of those threads.

-- 
Thank you,

Kirby Angell
Get notified anytime your website goes down!
http://www.alertra.com
key: 9004F4C0
fingerprint: DD7E E88D 7F50 2A1E 229D  836A DB5B A751 9004 F4C0


From kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 27 03:45:39 2004
From: kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com (kartik)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 00:45:39 -0700
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
	<clkvab$1dc$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<Z8ofd.2777$kM.174@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <940ee3e8.0410262345.4017fbd5@posting.google.com>

Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<Z8ofd.2777$kM.174 at newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> 
> My guess is the not unusual case of someone who works mostly alone
> and doesn't have much experience in diverse projects nor working
> with more experience people.

Hey, that's right.


> I've seen some similar symptoms working with, for example,
> undergraduate students who are hotshot programmers ... when
> compared to other students in their non-CS department but not
> when compared to, say, a CS student, much less a experienced
> developer.

Oops. I'm a grad student, and I certainly don't have as much
experience as a professional developer

-kartik


From rynt at 9yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 18:51:08 2004
From: rynt at 9yahoo.com (R Baumann)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:51:08 -0700
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <mailman.5194.1098218306.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glxe78.2hkiiz189zdilN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<cl409j$kdm$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <6JudnbRsntfAB-jcRVn-tw@megapath.net>


"JCM" <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote in message
news:cl409j$kdm$1 at fred.mathworks.com...
> Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Frohnhofer, James <james.frohnhofer at csfb.com> wrote:
>
> >> Why do you say 'simple-minded'?
>
> > Why do you top-post?
>
> Be civil.  There are those who prefer it, in some cases.  If you don't
> like it, don't do it.

How about we don't rehash the top-post/bottom-post war again?

Common courtesy implies that you follow the generally accepted posting
guidelines of the newgroup your communicating in.  The c.l.py newsgroups
prefers bottom-posting, comp.databases.ms-access prefers top-posting.

There is no absolute law that says you MUST top-post, or you MUST
bottom-post.
Thanks




From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Oct 15 17:54:29 2004
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Michael Foord)
Date: 15 Oct 2004 14:54:29 -0700
Subject: Recycle Bin and Python
References: <6f402501.0410150408.165c95c4@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5002.1097843330.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f402501.0410151354.1830dc94@posting.google.com>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.5002.1097843330.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> Michael Foord wrote:
> > How do I move files into the windoze recycle bin from python ?
> 
> This is really a Windows API question first, and a Python question second.
> 
> 1) Find out the "official" way to do this in Windows
> 
> I googled for "msdn move file recycle bin" and the first link that came back was 
> a page on MSDN for SHFileOperation. In typical Windows fashion, it involves 
> populating some structure and passing it to the function, but it does appear to 
> do the trick.
> 
> 2) Figure out how to do this in Python.
> 
> You can create such a structure in ctypes, after which you can make the actual 
> call like this:
> 
> i = windll.shell32.SHFileOperationA(byref(yourStruct))
> 
> HTH,
> Dave


It does help.. yeeurgh....

But thanks.

Fuzzy

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/atlantibots/pythonutils.html


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 16:52:05 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:52:05 +0200
Subject: Recursive function to develop permutations
References: <RiZcd.840$5i5.671@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1glxc40.1kfx0apgrp3u3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Steve Goldman <steve_g at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to come up with a way to develop all n-length permutations of a
> given list of values.  The short function below seems to work, but I can't
> help thinking there's a better way.  Not being a computer scientist, I find
> recursive functions to be frightening and unnatural.  I'd appreciate if
> anyone can tell me the pythonic idiom to accomplish this.

The implementation of something that is naturally defined recursively is
often simplest when done recursively (unless there's some manual
equivalent of a "tail call optimization" that's easy and natural).  And
many things in combinatorics are generally subject to naturally
recursive definitions.

If you hope to find a natural and smooth non-recursive implementation,
think first about a non-recursive definition (the alternative is putting
the recursion in, then removing it by explicitly introducing a stack; it
works, but is not necessarily pretty).

In this case it seems to me that you're lucky: there IS a non-recursive
definition of "permutations of length N out of a list of X values".  It
may go something like...:
  each result is a container with N slots.  each slot, independently,
  assumes each of the X values, yielding X**N results

This is like saying that (if the X values are digits in base X) the
result is a number counting in base X from 0 to X**N-1.  In fact, the X
values may be arbitrary, but the INDICES of the values in the list that
holds them ARE the numbers 0 to X-1, i.e., exactly the digits in base X.

So, we have reduced the problem to one of counting in an arbitrary base,
so it becomes pretty easy to solve non-recursively.  For example:

def permute(Xs, N):
    permutations = []
    permutation = [None] * N
    X = len(Xs)
    for i in xrange(X**N):
        for j in xrange(N):
            i, k = divmod(i, X)
            permutation[j] = Xs[k]
        permutations.append(list(permutation))
    return permutations

Here, we're using i as an actual count, an integer, and the inner loop
does the 'base expansion' of each i, plus the indexing to replace each
digit with the corresponding item of Xs.

Note that I've called the argument Xs, *NOT* list, because I want to use
the built-in name 'list' for its normal purpose: making a new list
that's a copy of an existing one (I prefer that to such goofy idioms as
permutation[:], permutation+[], or permutation*1, even though they all
do the same job and the last one is a real characters-saver; I think
list(permutation) is more readable, personally).

In general, it's best to avoid shadowing built-in names in a context
where you're likely to want to use the original meaning of the names.

Of course, there ARE other ways to count:

def permute(Xs, N):
    permutations = []
    permutation = [0] * N
    X = len(Xs)
    while True:
        for k in xrange(N):
            permutation[k] += 1
            if permutation[k] < X: break
            permutation[k] = 0
        else:
            break
        permutations.append([Xs[k] for k in permutation])
    return permutations

Here, I need to use a list comprehension (or some slightly more obscure
construct, such as map(Xs.__getitem__, permutation)...) at append time,
to construct the list of items of Xs from the list of indexes ("digits")
which the algorithm naturally generates.  I hold digits in a
little-endian way, btw, simply because it's marginally simpler and you
did not specify any particular ordering for the result.

Each of these solutions can be enhanced by making it into a generator --
remove the permutations=[] at the start, turn the permutations.append
call into a yield statement.  However, you'll have to turn the simple
"print permute(..." into a "print list(permute(..." in your testcase.
No big deal, if you do need a list as a result; it's frequent that what
you want is to LOOP over the result, in which case there's no need to
make it into a list taking memory space all at once.

Are these "counting" solutions any simpler than the recursive one?  I
don't really think so, for a cleanly-implemented recursion (one without
globals and a first-time switch...!-) such as:

def permute(Xs, N):
    if N <= 0:
        yield []
        return
    for x in Xs:
        for sub in permute(Xs, N-1):
            yield [x]+sub

it seems to me this one has a strong simplicity advantage.  However,
considering the "counting" approaches is still instructive.  Take the
second one again: all the counting it does is a += 1 and a check if some
limit is reached that way.  But that's VERY close to the job of an
iterator, so why not try to use an iterator directly instead of that
"digit in base X"/"index into Xs" number...?  Python generally prefers
iterating directly over values, rather than over digits...

def permute(Xs, N):
    state = [iter(Xs) for k in xrange(N)]
    permutation = [s.next() for s in state]
    while True:
        yield list(permutation)
        for k in xrange(N):
            try: permutation[k] = state[k].next()
            except StopIteration:
                 state[k] = iter(Xs)
                 permutation[k] = state[k].next()
            else:
                 break
        else:
            break

A bit cutesy, perhaps, particularly with the two "else: break" back to
back (one for the try statement breaking out of the for, one for the for
statement breaking out of the while).

And so on, and so forth.  There's hardly any limit to the fun one can
have exploring such problems.

But, for simplicity, recursion is still hard to beat;-).


Alex


From timr at probo.com  Sat Oct 23 22:46:42 2004
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:46:42 -0700
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <d3502feb.0410212203.43e124b3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pu3mn0hpnqn4shs0cofgfa8i2gu61mb5pd@4ax.com>

s4046441 at student.uq.edu.au (Shufen) wrote:
>
>Can someone who has use PHP before and know quite well about the
>language, tell me what are the stuffs that Python offers and PHP
>doesn't. A few examples will be nice. I know about the date format
>problem which PHP is having but I need more examples. Thank you for
>any help.

I'd like to mention one MAJOR difference that I've found in my
explorations.

As a language, PHP is quite adequate.  The class structure is usable,
although not as thorough and sophisticated as Python.  The run-time library
is VERY extensive (although all the names are in the root namespace), and
the online documentation is quite good.

The biggest difference, in my view, is the global archive of sample code.
There are many, many sites with sample PHP pages, snippets, and modules.
However, they are almost universally bad.  Monolithic code, no modularity,
no structure, no separation of presentation and processing.  No one seems
to use classes.

One could probably write a master's thesis on the reasons for this.
Perhaps it is because PHP is simple enough that it attracts inexperienced
programmers.  Perhaps the early versions of the language required hacky
programming, and the early samples not moved on.  I don't know exactly.

I do know that much of the sample Python code in the world represents
relatively good programming practices.  Most of the PHP code I've seen most
definitely does not.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From mike at skew.org  Sat Oct 16 19:22:57 2004
From: mike at skew.org (Mike Brown)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:22:57 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Message from exception raised in generator disappears
Message-ID: <200410162322.i9GNMvhM043628@chilled.skew.org>

I thought I was being pretty clever with my first attempt at using generators, 
but I seem to be missing some crucial concept, for even though this seems to 
work as intended, the text of the exception message does not bubble up with 
either of the ValueErrors when one of them is raised.


# This helps iterate over a unicode string. When python is built with
# 16-bit chars (as is the default on Windows), it returns surrogate
# pairs together (unlike 'for c in s'), and detects illegal surrogate
# pairs. Byte strings are unaffected.
def chars(s):
    surrogate = None
    for c in s:
        cp = ord(c)
        if surrogate is not None:
            if cp > 56319 and cp < 57344:
                pair = surrogate + c
                surrogate = None
                yield pair
            else:
                raise ValueError("Bad surrogate pair in %s" % s)
        else:
            if cp > 55295 and cp < 57344:
                if cp < 56320:
                    surrogate = c
                else:
                    raise ValueError("Bad surrogate pair in %s" %s)
            else:
                surrogate = None
                yield c
    if surrogate is not None:
        raise ValueError("Bad surrogate pair at end of %s" % s)


# as expected, returns u'example \xe9...\u2022...\U00010000...\U0010fffd'
''.join([c for c in chars(u'example \xe9...\u2022...\ud800\udc00...\U0010fffd')])

# now test the 3 exception conditions. Each produces a ValueError
''.join([c for c in chars(u'2nd half bad: \ud800bogus')])
''.join([c for c in chars(u'no 1st half: \udc00')])
''.join([c for c in chars(u'no 2nd half: \ud800')])


All 3 result of the exception tests result in a bare ValueError; there's no 
"Bad surrogate pair in" message shown. Why is thta? What am I doing wrong?


From scooterm at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 14 22:18:11 2004
From: scooterm at hotmail.com (valued customer)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 19:18:11 -0700
Subject: Completely INNOCENT Indentation question
References: <1b347673.0410130532.63199a4a@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4846.1097675256.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1b347673.0410131928.750bcde7@posting.google.com>
	<opsfv42qrk1js0xs@news.telkomsa.net>
Message-ID: <1b347673.0410141818.33516ebf@posting.google.com>

> 2.  Write a preprocessor (in python) that you supply with your program as  
> a command-line argument
> 
As a routine user of similar 'preprocessor tricks' to coerce other,
more klunky languages into behaving nicely, that's a great 
suggestion, seems like an obvious solution (in hindsight).

> Python makes me very lazy.  Writing a report in LaTeX today, it was  
> actually easier for me to make up a syntax for tagging math symbols 
>
With all the emphasis on "extensibility" these days, it seems the best
mechanism for extensibility is the unsung hero ... code comments ... 
You can do things the original designers never anticipated.


From bokr at oz.net  Thu Oct 14 16:27:13 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:27:13 GMT
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
References: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gljwcn.hu8qmfo9di8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416E15CA.9680C6A3@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gln4dz.eajljp1mwfqx3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416ec33b.258821255@news.oz.net>

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:00:28 +0200, aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) wrote:

>denis wendum <wendum.denis at pasdepourriels.edf.fr> wrote:
>   ...
>> > Here's how to find out:
>> >
>> > >>> class foo:
>> > ...   def __getattr__(self, name):
>> > ...     print 'looking for %r' % name
>> > ...     raise AttributeError, name
>> > ...
>> > >>> f=foo()
>> > >>> 12 < f
>> > looking for '__gt__'
>> > looking for '__coerce__'
>> > looking for '__cmp__'
>   ...
>> Many thanks for your answer: you didn't just gave me the fish I asked but also
>> showed me how to use a net for catching other fish.
>
>You're welcome!  Python enjoys excellent "discoverability" (a term
>copiously illustrated, by explanation and by example, in Eric Raymond's
>excellent book "The Art of Unix Programming", highly recommended in both
>paper and free-on-the-net form) -- it shews enough of its workings,
>easily enough, that it's well worth doing some sniffing around, and the
>ability to hack together a 4-line class that displays things with some
>print statements in an interactive session is a good example.
>
>Of course, I _was_ being a tad too glib here, which helps explain...:
>
>> It seems I triggered a fierce debate with my question, but as far as I'm
>> concerned your example worked perfectly.
>
>...the "debate", which was in fact quite friendly, even for this
>community's pretty good standards.  Summarizing, I half-cheated by using
>an oldstyle class here, so that __getattr__ would indeed get called; a
>newstyle class, while having just about the same behavior, does (...to
>oversimply things a bit...) more processing at the time the class
>statement is executed, it fills up a structure of internal 'slots', so
>there is less "rooting around" at the time the < operator executes and
>less of a chance to see the wheels in motion (there are of course plenty
>of advantages in exchange, both conceptual and practical).  Moreover the
>'__coerce__' concept is being de-emphasized and deprecated, so the
>"lookup" order shifts slightly (coercion is now tried only as a "last
>ditch", after 3-way comparison with __cmp__ rather than before).
>
>This doesn't mean you can't do "sniffing around" in newstyle classes,
>but it may require a different tack, such as:
>
>>>> class foo(object):
>...   def __gt__(self, other):
>...     print 'doing gt'
>...     return NotImplemented
>...   def __cmp__(self, other):
>...     print 'doing cmp'
>...     return NotImplemented
>... 
>>>> f=foo()
>>>> 2<f
>doing gt
>doing cmp
>False
>>>> 
>
>The "return NotImplemented" may be seen as a way to implement a specific
>comparison (say __gt__) in some cases while punting to more generic ways
>implicitly -- you may use it to indicate to Python "I don't know how to
>do this specific comparison in this specific method, so please try
>something else [along the usual orders in which things are tried]"...
>
I didn't know about returning NotImplemented. That's good to know.
But otherwise the above is effectively what I wound up doing manually
in my other post, starting with all methods and manually deleting them
one by one as I retried the comparison.

Unfortunately, I am still frustrated, because there seems no way (other
than looking in sources) to discover a method whose name you don't know
ahead of time. You can just determine the order of access to known-name
methods. So I'm still looking for the magic metaclass formula that can
reveal the search for unknown methods. Maybe we need a sys._getattrhook
that could monitor operation-induced searching?

BTW, I experimented a little further with NotImplemented and the gt,cmp,coerce
methods in a base class vs derived and it looks like the search prefers
a base class gt or cmp over a derived version of the next alternative.

I wonder if a derived instance shouldn't be assumed to know more about doing
the right thing than its base class, if there is any overriding method available.
I.e., is the search really doing what it should in e.g. preferring Base.__gt__
over Derv.__cmp__ and Derv.__coerce__ ?

----< methtrack.py >---------------
class Base(object): pass
class Derv(Base): pass
for cls in (Base, Derv):
    cname = cls.__name__
    def __gt__(self, other, cname=cname):
        print 'doing %s gt' % cname
        return NotImplemented
    def __cmp__(self, other, cname=cname):
        print 'doing %s cmp' % cname
        return NotImplemented
    def __coerce__(self, other, cname=cname):
        print 'doing %s coerce' % cname
        return NotImplemented
    for m in  [__gt__, __cmp__,__coerce__]:
        setattr(cls, m.__name__, m)
 
print '-- with all:'
2 < Derv()
for cls in (Derv, Base):
    for mname in 'gt cmp coerce'.split():
        print '-- sans %s %s:' % (cls.__name__, mname)
        delattr(cls, '__%s__'%mname)
        2 < Derv()
----------------------------------------------
Results:

[13:26] C:\pywk\clp\examples>methtrack.py
-- with all:
doing Derv gt
doing Derv cmp
-- sans Derv gt:
doing Base gt
doing Derv cmp
-- sans Derv cmp:
doing Base gt
doing Base cmp
-- sans Derv coerce:
doing Base gt
doing Base cmp
-- sans Base gt:
doing Base cmp
-- sans Base cmp:
doing Base coerce
-- sans Base coerce:

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From agriff at tin.it  Fri Oct  1 17:00:34 2004
From: agriff at tin.it (Andrea Griffini)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:00:34 GMT
Subject: Unexpected Python Behavior
References: <4e4a11f8.0409232355.6ba0468d@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.3834.1096015522.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<RImdnbz2hMm7v8ncRVn-qg@lmi.net>
	<cj18jn$47n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<2srcl0poenac7hl39gmbmgvj4e0sp6fp38@4ax.com>
	<1gkpsyw.16zk21c1hoc4taN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<2s1cetF1emgg9U1@uni-berlin.de>
	<41upl0p84hua97r8bjd6oobqvmd7886f5m@4ax.com>
	<cjj4n5$s30$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
	<9ucql0p2r2m3uhiedd4mi4b8bti8p1btfg@4ax.com>
	<Jdc7d.280819$4o.95007@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <ijbrl0tfkraor6fe316aettvc0sqas3q8a@4ax.com>

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:34:50 -0400, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com>
wrote:

>> I didn't reply to Alex message because it's clear that he has
>> a very personal problem with me (and ... no, I've no idea why).
>
>It's clear to you, possibly.

Yes. Feel also free to add "IMO" at every phrase. I originally
wrote "it's clear to me" but then removed it because I didn't
like the sound of it (to me...with me).

>> My decision so was to stop feeding his hate and I ignored him;
>
>Hate? This doesn't sound like the Alex I know (and I'm talking about 
>through the face meetings here, not just net acquaintanceship) This guy 
>was the technical editor for my book, and I know him to be not only 
>technically brilliant but also an affable and congenial person).

Yes... I can very well understand that this is not the Alex you
know, but it's the Alex I know. Would you just please blank
out the names and read the messages instead ?

>> that one is a problem he has with me and not the other way
>> around... may be he can try to find a solution inside himself
>> or talking to a good psychotherapist... I don't think I can
>> be of any help about it.
>> 
>Well, clearly not with an attitude like that. Frankly that's about as 
>insulting as you should be getting around here. In fact I think you've 
>gone too far. I preferred the sarcasm.

Can you take the time to read my messages in this thread
and Alex' replies to my messages, and tell me when was that
I passed the reasonable limit ?

>> What kind of surprised me is however that no one else contested
>> the nonsenses and/or irrelevant facts in his message. So I came
>> to the conclusion that here we're leaving the land of logic.
>> 
>Perhaps anyone who has opinions that vary from yours has a problem 
>requiring psychotherapeutic help? I'm beginning to sense that I too am a 
>little unbalanced.

I'm not talking about this. I think Alex has a problem
with me and I really do not understand why this happened.
The problem (as I see it) started many years ago in a C++
newsgroup when I simply noted that at that time it was
IMO unfair to compare what the return code approach was
actually able to deliver (basically *all* the software we
were using at that time) with what the exception approach
was just promising.
The theme is of course very complex, but the discussion
simply ended on the spot because Alex understood that I
was calling him a dishonest (?) and then plonked me or at
least said he did (and shortly after actually left the group).
Before the alleged plonk I asked if he could actually provide
evidence that the exceptions-everywhere approach was paying
off in complex systems (I think exceptions are just wonderful
in a few special cases - i.e. when you can "rollback" or
at least "restart" a subsystem - but they're not a panacea
in general when your program state is complex, distributed
and unprotected... the core problem I see is that "strong"
exception safety doesn't scale up by composition) but his
reply was that he couldn't provide examples because it was
secret material (!?).

All this is probably on google, of course; but it's in italian.

What surprised me however is that nonsenses like the risk
of name rebinding (that pervades python; that is the
*essence* of python) were not commented. Why f,g = g,f and
not math.sin,math.cos = math.cos,math.sin ?

May be is the "pythonic" way to always privately import and
then bind functions to local names and doing all this
by using fake parameters with a default value ?

I was suprised that no one noted that if we want statics,
and the "hasattr" approach is slow then *the slowness* is
the problem. Probably a static keyword binding local names
to globally living objects to my newbie eyes would be the
best and would better describe the static local in C
(even if in python it would be arbitrary "how much" static
the var should be ... being the function definition an
executable statement should they be shared just between
calls of the same function instance ? should they be
shared between all instances of that function object ?)

I was also quite suprised about the discussion moving
to the microseconds when if I care about microseconds
the python is a questionable choice. True that python
is often "fast enough", but If I've to write uglier code
to get a 1.2x speedup then I can do it with other languages
instead of using something that is *essentially* slow
and get a 10x speedup. Ugly for ugly I'd use C++ (or
pyrex or whatever else) for that part if speed is a problem.

>> I saw just one message saying what I (as a newbie to python)
>> think is obvious to at least anyone with a reasonable brain
>> and cold enough to think without prejudice; i.e. that defining
>> 
>>     def foo(x, cache=[])
>> 
>> when you've no intention to receive that parameter is a purely,
>> simply, uncontestably, stinking, ugly hack (also IMO adding
>> underscores to that "cache" name is not making this hack really
>> any prettier).
>> 
>Well, of course, as a newbie to Python you are clearly in a far better 
>position than anyone else to say what's reasonable. This couldn't 
>possibly be a sensible use of name scoping rules to avoid the necessity 
>for a static declaration, could it? Dammit, you know what a function is, 
>and if it has parameters then we should damned well use them in the calls.
>
>Right.

I'm sorry I don't understand if this is sarcasm or not...
are you really saying that using those fake parameters is
not an ugly stinking hack for the absence of a sensible
way to declare function static variables ?

Where do you stop ? Is it beautiful to use them also for
binding builtin functions you need ?

What about adding an every-other parameter with a string
default just for adding per-parameter documentation ?

>Well I don't often say this, but I think we have to get the attitude 
>adjusters out here. Just sit in this chair, please, you'll just feel a 
>little prick with a needle [this is a lie: I don't really have a 
>needle]. There, that should feel better. Take three of the purple 
>tablets a day, and come back when you are able to indulge in a 
>difference of opinion without suggesting that those of a different view 
>require therapy.

Is this humor ? I've had and I'm still having a lot of
discussions with people not agreeing with me, but luckily
enough not many were so personally aggressive as Alex.
With normal people I normally end up agreeing on something,
or my counter-part does the same, or, most often, it's a
mix of the two. There are cases in which the discussion
ends up with everyone remaining with the same starting
position. But rarely I got to the "puh-LEEZE" level.

When things tend to degenerate my standard reaction has
been lately to just keep silent. This normally happens
after writing a VERY long reply, that I just avoid
posting... not because I fear the consequences; but
because all the content seems me so obvious that makes
clear the discussion left the land of logic and it's
entering the war territory. When someone I'm discussing
with is avoiding acknowledging even the obvious (and
it's clear that it can't be for a mental limit problem)
it's also obvious there's no point in keep discussing.

>I don't suppose it's come to your attention that Alex is the author of 
>"Python in a Nutshell" and co-author of "The Python Cookbook", and 
>therefore rather well qualified to pontificate on the vagaries of Python 
>usage?

Sure I know that. I didn't read either however (yet).

But the key point is that your name is just not enough
to make drink what you say without thinking; sorry if
this sounds offending, but that philosophy is a part
of me I just can't shut off.

Say something convincing and I'll be more than happy to
agree with you. Say something that IMO is wrong and I'll
say it's wrong, whatever is your name (remaining of
course well prepared to accept an explanation if you're
kind enough to explain why you stand behind your position).

And (drumrolls) Alex Martelli name is surely not the
biggest I've had discussion with. By far.

>I suspect the only offense he is actually guilty of is treating 
>you as better-informed than you actually are.

I can't find a way to say more clearly that I know
basically nothing of python. The biggest python program
I wrote so far is totalling a ridicolous 3800 lines.

But tell me that

 def foo(x,my_personal_cache_so_please_dont_pass_this_parm=[]):
    ...

is beautiful and I can sign a paper where is stated
that you're either kidding or a dork.

Andrea


From firemoth at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 19:39:26 2004
From: firemoth at gmail.com (Timothy Fitz)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:39:26 -0400
Subject: DVD/CD Burning
In-Reply-To: <972ec5bd041027163556febcdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <972ec5bd041027163556febcdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <972ec5bd04102716394525f51f@mail.gmail.com>

> Is there a python library to burn CDs or DVDs with? (Python or worst
> case C/C++) I'd rather not use some other commandline tool, but as a
> last resort that'd be possible too. PyPi, Google, etc turn up nothing
> (or rather, anything there might be seems swamped by commercial
> applications)
> 
> Timothy Fitz
> 

Sorry I forgot to mention that I'd like one cross-platform but knowing
that probably doesn't exist, I -need- something that supports windows.


From jeffrey at fro.man  Mon Oct  4 10:32:52 2004
From: jeffrey at fro.man (Jeffrey Froman)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 07:32:52 -0700
Subject: Processing a MySQL Dump file with Python
References: <mailman.4237.1096874527.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10m2nokgkk45raa@corp.supernews.com>

Nico Grubert wrote:

> can I somehow call the MySQL interpreter in background to pass the dump
> file to it so the SQL Dump is imported in order
> to write the tables and data into the MySQL database?

Sure, that's what dump files are good for. Simply pipe the contents of the
file into a mysql command. On a Unix-type system (maybe Windows too, I
wouldn't know) you'd run something like:

mysql -h myhost.com -p -u myusername < dumpfile

MySQL does all this by itself, no Python required.

Hope that helps,
Jeffrey


From deetsNOSPAM at web.de  Wed Oct 13 14:39:52 2004
From: deetsNOSPAM at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:39:52 +0200
Subject: ZODB and Boa
References: <dgrqm05vdauql2cmlpd0f49q747nb8hvu2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ckjspk$ncp$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Gary wrote:

> I'm having some difficulty getting ZODB to play nice with Boa.
> Specifically, after creating a simple interface with a text field &
> btn, I added a python module and imported it into the main (wxFrame)
> code:
> 
> (python module code)
> import ZODB.config
> db = ZODB.config.databaseFromURL('calendar.conf')
> conn = db.open()
> dbroot = conn.root()
> dbname = 'calendar_db'
> sched = dbroot[dbname]
> 
> from persistent import Persistent
> #from persistent.list import PersistentList
> #from persistent.mapping import PersistentMapping
> 
> class Calendr(Persistent):
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.date = 0
>         self.datedata = ()
>         self.fds = []
>         self.first = []
>         self.second = []
>         self.third = []
>         self.all = []
>         self.stats = {}
> 
> abc = sched[20050101]
> efg = abc.first
> print efg
> (end code)
> 
> When run (from the wxFrame), the textbox value set to 'efg,' an err
> msg states that 'first' is not an attribute of Calendr.
> When the textbox value is set to str(abc), the err msg states:
> <persistent broken __main__.Calendar instance
> '\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x1c'>
> 
> When the python module is run directly (thru Boa), it seems to work
> fine, and the print value seen in the code above appears in the Output
> section of the Boa Editor frame.
> 

I encountered similar problems when the objects serialized were imported as
members of a certain module - and then, when that module is not found under
that name when deserializing, the object is broken as yours.  So make sure
that if your object is of type foo.Bar, when deserializing import foo,
containing Bar.

-- 
Regards,

Diez B. Roggisch


From cjankowski at hbr-inc.com  Fri Oct 22 13:33:43 2004
From: cjankowski at hbr-inc.com (Chris Jankowski)
Date: 22 Oct 2004 10:33:43 -0700
Subject: Pointer to Image
References: <a1301a8e.0410190637.74a091ad@posting.google.com>
	<d5zesplp.fsf@python.net>
	<a1301a8e.0410201033.43a05eb8@posting.google.com>
	<10ng2p7eddu4b3a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a1301a8e.0410220933.4deb27e@posting.google.com>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message news:<10ng2p7eddu4b3a at corp.supernews.com>...
> Chris Jankowski wrote:
> 
> >    # [...]
> >    setLanguage = myOcr.SetLanguage
> >    setLanguage('ENGLISH',".")
> >
> >    setOutputMode = myOcr.SetOutputMode
> >    setOutputMode("OM_TEXT")
> >
> >    setOutputHandler = myOcr.OCRSetOutputHandler
> >    z = id(myOutputHandler)
> >    errorx = setOutputHandler(z)
> >    # [...]
> >
> 
> As a minor stylistic note, I find your constant use of temporary local 
> names of module functions to be distracting and even slightly 
> confusing.  When you actually *call* a function, it's not immediately 
> apparent whether that's a helper function that you've written yourself 
> or whether it's a function in your OCR module -- I have to backtrack to 
> see where the function came from, and I'm never quite sure whether I 
> will find it somewhere in the current code block (because you've bound 
> the imported function to a local name) or whether I should look 
> elsewhere in the current module (because it's a function you've defined 
> yourself).
> 
> I'd find the above code snippet *much* easier to read without the 
> temporaries:
> 
>     myOcr.SetLanguage('ENGLISH', ".")
>     myOcr.SetOutputMode("OM_TEXT")
>     errorx = myOcr.OCRSetOutputHandler( id(myOutputHandler) )
> 
> To my eyes, this makes it much more clear where everything is found, and 
> because it's so much shorter it's much easier to take in at a glance.
> 
> (I also share Thomas Heller's suspicion that passing the id() of 
> myOutputHandler() is *not* what you want to do here.  The ID is merely 
> an integer that Python uses internally to track an object; it is 
> typically not useful for code that wants to *use* an object to know what 
> its ID is.  You don't need to know your co-workers' social security 
> numbers in order to work with them effectively, right?  Similarly, a 
> Python object's ID is only needed in very special circumstances where 
> the exact identity of an object is in question, and it's *not* needed 
> for normal usage of an object such as being able to call a function object.)
> 
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International

Hey Jeff,
Thanks for the pointers.  I am still new to Python and sometimes do
things the hard way, because I don't know any better.  (yet)  I just
copied this from the cytpes documentation and plugged in my variable
names.

The part that is confusing to me, still has not been answered.  

This DLL file has several functions. One is a handler that needs to be
set to a Python function.  How do I pass it an address to make this
happen?

def myOutputHandler(infotype, param):
    print("outhandler")
    if infotype == "OT_TEXT":
        print param
##[...]

myOcr.OCRSetOutputHandler(address of myOutputHandler?) ###
??????????????

Thanks,

Chris J.


From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Oct 28 13:23:25 2004
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:23:25 -0700
Subject: passing a socket to a spawned process.
References: <mailman.4842.1097673119.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<fa2c4bf8.0410280000.6d937d6e@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.5620.1098982967.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-040C85.10232528102004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.5620.1098982967.5135.python-list at python.org>,
 Josiah Carlson <jcarlson at uci.edu> wrote:

> martin_ml at parvat.com (Martin Atkins) wrote:
> > 
> > I recently wrote a c module for Python, for passing file descriptors and 
> > process
> > credentials down unix domain sockets under Linux. (using sendmsg(2))
> > 
> > It was pretty easy, and I could send it to anyone interested. Contact me
> > off-list, since I don't normally read this group.
> > 
> > Perhaps there is a need for a OS-independant wrapper around versions
> > specifically for Linux, Windows, Solaris, etc?
> > 
> > Martin
> 
> I'll take the source for the C version.  And in general, yes, Python
> could use such a thing for all platforms, though I'm not sure all
> platforms support it.

Rest assured, not all platforms support it.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From claird at lairds.us  Tue Oct  5 18:08:05 2004
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 22:08:05 GMT
Subject: Modules aren't first-class values (was: New to Python: Features)
References: <20041005101730.ECD4.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.4367.1097002885.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<nnab32-ud.ln1@lairds.us>
	<mailman.4374.1097008001.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <n6gb32-u95.ln1@lairds.us>

In article <mailman.4374.1097008001.5135.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters  <tim.peters at gmail.com> wrote:
>[Richard Blackwood]
>>> But modules for example, the docs don't tell me at all that I can use
>>> modules as variables and that I can pass them into and out of
>>> functions/methods.
>
>[Cameron Laird]
>> I've seen you assert this a couple of times.  I haven't been
>> able to spot the revelation in this thread which inspired you
>> to it.
>
>Someone said so, in reply.
>
>> I suspect there's a confusion somewhere.  Modules
>> are *not* first-class values,
>
>Of course they are:  a module is a Python object, and is as
>"first-class" as an integer, function, file, ..., or any other kind of
>Python object.
>
>> although their names are.
>
>I don't know what that means.
>
>> It sounds as though the standard documentation lacks something
>> in regard to modules, but I don't know what it is.
>
>All Python objects can be passed to functions, returned from
>functions, stored as values in lists and dicts, etc.  The Python docs
>don't explicitly say that all over again for each object type, though
>-- it's universally true.
>
>>>> import math
>>>> type(math)  # name 'math' is bound to a module object
><type 'module'>
>>>> import doctest  # ditto name 'doctest'
>>>> type(doctest)
><type 'module'>
>>>> import new   # you can even create module objects out of thin air
>>>> print new.module.__doc__
>module(name[, doc])
>
>Create a module object.
>The name must be a string; the optional doc argument can have any type.
>>>> def getsin(mod):   # a function taking a module object as argument
>...     return mod.sin
>>>> doctest = math  # silly but legitimate
>>>> getsin(doctest)(3.14)
>0.0015926529164868282
>>>> m = new.module('mymod')
>>>> m.__name__
>'mymod'
>>>> m.sin = math.sin
>>>> getsin(m)(3.14)
>0.0015926529164868282
>
>and so on.

Yes; well said (and by Mr. Kostyrka, also).  I perceived
confusion, but I certainly added to it, rather than
helping.  My apologies to those I misled, and thanks for
the quick correction.


From shenron7 at infinito.it  Sun Oct 17 08:29:20 2004
From: shenron7 at infinito.it (shenron7 at infinito.it)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:29:20 +0200
Subject: Binding in Python
Message-ID: <web-11768754@infinito.it>

Hi all!

Can anyone tell me what are the binding strategies of this 
language? How does the binding works in Python?

Please, help me, it's very important!
Thanks in advance.
Riccardo Rossi.
_______________________________________
Connessione ed e-mail gratuita da 10 mb
consultabile tramite web e tramite pop.
www.infinito.it vieni a scoprire tutti 
i nostri servizi!

http://www.infinito.it/xmail



From hameed.u.khan at gmail.com  Sun Oct 17 14:34:54 2004
From: hameed.u.khan at gmail.com (Hameed U. Khan)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:34:54 +0500
Subject: optparse examples
In-Reply-To: <_Uxcd.50307$b5.2548305@news3.tin.it>
References: <_Uxcd.50307$b5.2548305@news3.tin.it>
Message-ID: <70576bd204101711342463694a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
 below is the link to programme i made 6 months ago when i started
using linux and found no visual type of display of memory in text
mode. this programme displays number and a bar showing the memory
usage. i have used optparse in it may be it will help you.
  the file is zipped becuase geocities dont allow .py files ;). and i
have no webspace some where else.
http://geocities.com/hameedkhaan/meminfo.zip

Hope this will help you.


On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:24:10 GMT, GMTaglia <liquid at kuht.it> wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> I'm trying to understand how really optparse work
> .
> I've already read the documentation so please don't answer RTFM because I
> already did it twice :)
> 
> Maybe someone have some examples of code for the *real world*?
> 
> Any help will be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in advance and happy new week.
> GMTaglia
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 
Hameed U. Khan


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Thu Oct  7 23:49:29 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:49:29 -0700
Subject: Data/File Structure and Algorithm for Retrieving Sorted Data
	Chunk Efficiently
In-Reply-To: <7xhdp5c206.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <ba1e306f.0410071919.7defa4a9@posting.google.com>
	<7xhdp5c206.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20041007204755.ED58.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> > Another problem is, the list update action could take a long time and
> > big memory. The list could shrink and expand. Do I have to sort them
> > all in memory and then update the textfile _everytime_ it's changed?
> 
> I don't understand this thread.  If you're trying to implement a real
> system, why don't you use MySQL?  You're at nowhere near the traffic
> level where that approach runs out of gas.

Or even the included bsddb.btree database (remember to translate to/from
strings, open using bsddb.btopen() ).

 - Josiah



From nun at example.com  Tue Oct 12 08:22:57 2004
From: nun at example.com (Mitja)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:22:57 +0200
Subject: Dict lookup shortcut?
References: <ckgfl4$a9$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <sZPad.4141$F6.1154137@news.siol.net>

M. Clift wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Can someone tell me is there a shorthand version to do
> this?
>
> l1 = ['n1', 'n3', 'n1'...'n23'...etc...]
>
> Names = {'n1':'Cuthbert','n2' :'Grub','n3' :'Dibble'
> etc...}
>
> for name in l1:
>     print Names[name],
>
> Rather than listing all the name+numbers keys in the
> dictionary can these keys be shortened somehow into one
> key and a range?

I'm not sure what you want to do:

l1= [...]
Names = {'n': l1}
print Names[n][12]

Or maybe you meant:

for i in range(1,24):
  Names['n'+`i`]=blah

If that didn't answer your question, please rephrase it. And BTW, variables (like Names) are spelled lowercase (i.e., names) by
convention; it's only class names that usually get capitalized (though it's no fixed rule).




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 29 09:47:27 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:47:27 +0200
Subject: Execute Command and write in variable
References: <41824875$1_2@news.bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <1gmfd6b.1os7c4yp6ivluN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

tobias <tobias at topi.homelinux.org> wrote:

> Hello
> 
> How can I execute a command (like "uptime") in python, and write the 
> output into a variable?

import os

avariable = os.popen('uptime').read()


Alex


From wganz at texoma.net  Fri Oct 22 08:04:31 2004
From: wganz at texoma.net (Will Ganz)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:04:31 -0500
Subject: RTFM
In-Reply-To: <3DB6456C.50006@cascade-sys.com>
Message-ID: <OPEDLDOFHCDKBPBIHMHFMEHEDCAA.wganz@texoma.net>

New users are the life blood of any language. For instance, compare the
number of new users for Lisp, SmallTalk, Python, and Ruby. We either keep
them or lose them & their mindshare.

http://www.concentric.net/~Jkeen/digest/index_of_incivility.html

http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/05/29/tides.html


:> -----Original Message-----
:> From: python-list-admin at python.org
:> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of James J. Besemer
:> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:45 AM
:> To: wganz at texoma.net
:> Cc: demian neidetcher; python-list at python.org
:> Subject: Re: RTFM
:>
:>
:>
:>     http://www.cascade-sys.com/~jb/Humor/userclue.gif
:>
:> Will Ganz wrote:
:>
:> >If you have the RTFM attitude, take it to a Perl list. You'll
:> fit in much
:> >better.
:> >
:> >
:> >
:> >:> -----Original Message-----
:> >:> From: python-list-admin at python.org
:> >:> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of demian neidetcher
:> >:> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 3:11 PM
:> >:> To: python-list at python.org
:> >:> Subject: RTFM
:> >:>
:> >:>
:> >:> RTFM
:> >:>
:> >:> after you've done that go to...
:> >:> http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
:> >:> --
:> >:> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
:> >:>
:> >
:> >
:> >
:> >
:>
:>
:> --
:> James J. Besemer		503-280-0838 voice
:> 2727 NE Skidmore St.		503-280-0375 fax
:> Portland, Oregon 97211-6557	mailto:jb at cascade-sys.com
:> 				http://cascade-sys.com
:>
:>
:>
:>
:> --
:> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
:>




From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Fri Oct  1 19:11:50 2004
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:11:50 -0700
Subject: extra gibberish interspersed into urllib2 output
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.01.23.11.49.238903@dcs.nac.uci.edu>


I'm attempting to retrieve some data from an http server using basic auth
via python 2.3 with the urllib2 and cookielib modules.

I'm finding that I'm getting the data I need, but unfortunately, there are
small bits of gibberish interspersed in it, rendering the data difficult
to use at best.  For example:

p06,128.200.73.146,foobar,,,,,ES Servers,,li,,,,,
p07,128.200.73.147,foobar,,,,,
ffb
ES Servers,,li,,,,,
webmail2,128.200.224.22,foobar ,,,,,ES Servers,,li,blackhole:1,,,,

IOW, that "ffb" does not belong in the middle of the 2nd line of what
should be a 3 line snippet.  There are also some spurious carriage returns
in there I believe, which may not show up in this message.

Has anyone seen this before?  Is it premature to start using urllib2 from
python 2.4?  Is it a bad idea to use this 2.4 module on python 2.3?

BTW, when I cut out the cookielib stuff, I still get the same strange
results.

On a bit of a bizarre note, mozilla is also unable to display this page,
however mozilla simply shows no content instead of adding in nonsense. 
links (the text mode web browser) however displays the content of the page
just as it should.

TIA for any suggestions you can offer.




From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Oct 15 07:09:23 2004
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:09:23 -0700
Subject: convert string to list
In-Reply-To: <416f88d8$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
References: <ckj5ie$tra$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
	<mailman.4833.1097669719.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<ckjf9n$13ob$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de>
	<mailman.4868.1097682000.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<416f88d8$1@pfaff2.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <1097838564.20309.32.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal>

On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 10:15 +0200, Josef Meile wrote:

> > 
> Why not just:
> 
> script.py "a, b, c" "d, e, f"
> 
> Then:
>  > arglist = []
>  > for arg in sys.argv[1:]:
>  >     arglist.append(arg.split(','))
> 
> Better than eval.

A basic problem is that the OP gave no indication of what would really
be passed as the lists (well, I'm assuming that his examples of ['A',
'B', 'C'] were contrived for simplicity).  Without knowing this, then
it's impossible to know if a character such as ',' might be contained in
the data.  If it is then splitting on ',' is going to fail.  A better
approach might be to pass the info as valid CSV data and use the csv
module to evaluate it:

#!/bin/bash
python bar.py '"a","b","c"' '"d","e","f"'


#!/usr/bin/python
import sys, csv
from StringIO import StringIO

for arg in sys.argv[1:]:
    reader = csv.reader(StringIO(arg))
    for row in reader:
        print row


Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at comcast.net>



From nobody at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 24 13:31:33 2004
From: nobody at hotmail.com (Maboroshi)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:31:33 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Problem
In-Reply-To: <clg0if$ac5$04$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <10nllajevdji2ba@corp.supernews.com>
	<clg0if$ac5$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <10nnprek4927dc1@corp.supernews.com>

Hey Thank you works now

Cheers

Andrew


From jerf at jerf.org  Sun Oct 17 14:44:05 2004
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:44:05 GMT
Subject: List Flatten
References: <5c882bb5.0410161531.41713754@posting.google.com>
	<ckteik$sg7$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<10n500532adhd22@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.17.14.43.25.130715@jerf.org>

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 07:21:56 -0700, Jeffrey Froman wrote:
> Particularly if you avoid building the interim "stack" list, by making use
> of recursion:

The original poster explicitly mentioned not using recursion due to
wanting to flatten things deeper than the call stack can go.



From aisaac at american.edu  Mon Oct 25 02:06:16 2004
From: aisaac at american.edu (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 02:06:16 -0400
Subject: replay 'apply' with extended call
Message-ID: <10np5sprbh8kp72@corp.supernews.com>

Consider an example due to Mertz (in Text Processing in Python):
apply_each = lambda fns, args=[]: map(apply, fns, [args]*len(fns))
This allows one to supply a list of functions and a tuple of arguments
to produce a list evaluating each function with those arguments.

But 'apply' is deprecated in favor of extended call syntax.
What is the equivalent with extended call syntax?

Thanks,
Alan Isaac




From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 15 18:11:55 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:11:55 -0700
Subject: Pychecker warns about  Exception example from Python tutorial
In-Reply-To: <41700f96$0$7527$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
References: <41700f96$0$7527$39db0f71@news.song.fi>
Message-ID: <20041015150400.099D.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


You can fix your pychecker error by adding the non-quoted line below...


> ------------- code starts -------
> class MyError(Exception):
>      def __init__(self, value):
           Exception.__init__(self)
>          self.value = value
>      def __str__(self):
>          return repr(self.value)
> 
> try:
>      raise MyError(2*2)
> except MyError, e:
>      print 'My exception occurred, value:', e.value



From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Oct 11 15:07:28 2004
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:07:28 -0000
Subject: Windows XP Balloon Tips?
References: <1d6cdae3041011094946722f33@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.4714.1097514475.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrncmlmfg.fp.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <mailman.4714.1097514475.5135.python-list at python.org>, Dave Brueck wrote:
> 
> Yep, very possible - we use it in one of our apps (the internal debate wrt 
> whether or not we should have a tray icon is another story ;-) ). If you just 
> need to display the balloons then you can use ctypes to call the 
> shell32.Shell_NotifyIconA function (Google for NotifyIcon on MSDN to learn the 
> gory details).
> 

Just out of curiosity, is there a way to do this also from PythonWin
(without having ctypes installed)?

-- 
 .:[ dave benjamin: ramen/[sp00] -:- spoomusic.com -:- ramenfest.com ]:.
        "talking about music is like dancing about architecture."


From aisaac at american.edu  Mon Oct 11 10:50:04 2004
From: aisaac at american.edu (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:50:04 -0400
Subject: doc problem? (index method)
Message-ID: <10ml7bd4jtkjp5f@corp.supernews.com>

The tutorial's description of the index method at
http://docs.python.org/tut/node7.html#SECTION007100000000000000000
is incomplete.

Perhaps a link to
http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq-mutable.html
would be appropriate.

fwiw,
Alan Isaac




From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Thu Oct 14 10:19:17 2004
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (GE Infrastructure))
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:19:17 -0400
Subject: String manipulation advice needed. Thanks.
Message-ID: <CE90A4CF2E5E9C4890AE5D9D8A5EFAE3034372E9@CINMLVEM10.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Pfew guys.. I'm indeed in a learning phase..if you never worked with this, tough!

But thanks for all the examples! That really helps.

Vincent

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-bounces+vincent.raaijmakers=ge.com at python.org
[mailto:python-list-bounces+vincent.raaijmakers=ge.com at python.org]On
Behalf Of Peter L Hansen
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:34 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: String manipulation advice needed.


Josiah Carlson wrote:
> Regular Expressions are your freind.  Take a peek at the re module.

No, regular expressions are your enemy, but it's always good
to "know thine enemy", and sometimes you want to use your
enemy as well.

-Peter
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From adijkstra at baanders NOSPAM consultancy.nl  Tue Oct 19 09:16:17 2004
From: adijkstra at baanders NOSPAM consultancy.nl (duikboot)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:16:17 +0200
Subject: manipulating PDF-files with Python?
In-Reply-To: <994828d9.0410190454.3217bebf@posting.google.com>
References: <994828d9.0410190454.3217bebf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4175133b$0$20948$d4d0a361@news.speedlinq.nl>

Tuomas P wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> Are there any open source Python tools that one could manipulate
> PDF-files with? By manipulation I mean, for instance, deleting or
> adding or replacing  pages, etc.
> 
> Thanks for your time!
> 
> Tuomas


Take a look at The ReportLab Toolkit

http://www.reportlab.org/downloads.html

HTH Arjen

-- 
http://www.baandersconsultancy.nl | http://www.nosonis.com


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 23:05:23 2004
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: 1 Oct 2004 20:05:23 -0700
Subject: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow
	after an exception is raised)
References: <4b39d922.0410011152.31fb1dae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4edc17eb.0410011905.72494b5d@posting.google.com>

finite.automaton at gmail.com (Lonnie Princehouse) wrote in message news:<4b39d922.0410011152.31fb1dae at posting.google.com>...
> In a recent post, Michele Simionato asked about resumable (or
> re-entrant) exceptions, the basic idea being that when raised and
> uncaught, these exceptions would only propagate backwards through a
> limited number of frames before being implicitly ignored. 

Well, actually that is NOT what I asked. Erik Max Francis got my point:

"""
The idea is that you can catch the exception and resume it, in
which case execution continues from the point that the resumable
exception was _raised_.  The exception, when caught, can still be
reraised (and another catcher resuming it will still cause it to resume
from the original point it was raised).  If the exception is not caught,
then it acts as a normal exception and halts the program with a stack
trace.
"""

I have no idea about how difficult would be to implement resumable exceptions
in Python; also I am not sure about their cost vs. benefit. For sure, in
2.5 years of Python programming this is first time I have got an use case
for resumable exceptions; still it is a contrived case. So, I am not in
dire need of resumable exceptions.
Nevertheless, it is possible that if we had resumable exceptions we 
could use them as a control flow structure in non-exceptional situations.
One could speculate about the idea ...

                   Michele Simionato


From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 17 05:45:17 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:45:17 GMT
Subject: How to get the size of a file?
References: <u0o3n09r9ak5cs0p8k88bbknf3nkqmaplu@4ax.com>
	<4171fdec.13660092@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <417225a6.23830756@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 06:29:36 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>
>This should list duplicate files in the specified directory:
>You can hack to suit. Not very tested. Just what you see ;-)
>------------------------------------------------
># get_dupes.py
[... version which only worked for current working directory...]
Phooey. Hopefully better:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
# get_dupes.py
import os, md5
def get_dupes(thedir):
    finfo = {}
    for f in os.listdir(thedir):
        p = os.path.join(thedir, f)
        if os.path.isfile(p):
            finfo.setdefault(os.path.getsize(p), []).append(f)

    result = []
    for size, flist in finfo.items():
        if len(flist)>1:
            dupes = {}
            for name in flist:
                dupes.setdefault(md5.new(open(os.path.join(thedir, name), 'rb'
                                         ).read()).hexdigest(),[]).append(name)
            for digest, names in dupes.items():
                if len(names)>1: result.append((size, digest, names))
    return result

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    try:
        dupes = get_dupes(sys.argv[1])
        if dupes:
            print
            print '%8s %32s %s' % ('size','md5 digest','files with the given size, digest')
            print '%8s %32s %s' % ('----','-'*32      ,'---------------------------------')
            for duped in dupes:
                print '%8s %32s %s' % duped
        else:
            print 'No duplicate files in %r' % sys.argv[1]
    except:
        raise SystemExit, 'Usage: python get_dupes.py directory'
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Oct 17 14:31:01 2004
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:31:01 -0500
Subject: Anything like 'inspect.getsourceencoding()'?
In-Reply-To: <20041017021433.GE2588@unpythonic.net>
References: <20041017021433.GE2588@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20041017183059.GA1899@unpythonic.net>

Here's my implementation of getsourceencoding:
    def getsourceencoding(object):
        f = open(inspect.getabsfile(object), "r")
        for i in range(2):
            line = f.readline()
            m = re.search("coding[:=]\s*([-\w.]+)", line)
            if m:
                return m.group(1)
        return "ascii"
Based on MvL's followup, I don't know where (if anywhere) this should be
included in the standard library.

Jeff
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From daniel.dittmar at sap.corp  Wed Oct  6 07:30:23 2004
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.corp (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 13:30:23 +0200
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
In-Reply-To: <10m69rkafcpmfa6@corp.supernews.com>
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>	<fmy8d.32815$Z14.12044@news.indigo.ie>	<cjuj8e$h2j$1@panix3.panix.com>
	<mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2sgi8iF1l9okoU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<10m69rkafcpmfa6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ck0l0f$7kr$1@news2.wdf.sap.corp>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
>    a = b + c
>    d = b + c
>    assert (a == d)

I don't think that anybody expects the assertion to be true if threads 
and any global variables are involved.

 > I cannot guarantee that the assertion is true, unless I explicitly
 > lock all the variables involved -- four locking operations plus four
 > unlocking operations.

Trying to lock more than one object automatically is a recipe for 
deadlocks.

> causing a segfault -- again, a violation of one of Python's design 
> constraints.  And I don't think that it's practical to have the 
> interpreter infer where it'd be safe to release the GIL.

Unlike Java (1), Python assignments are not atomic operations, but 
rather complex operations (updating of a dictionary).

Dictionaries would be locked at the C-level, so every assignment to 
module or instance variables would trigger at least one lock.

I'm not sure if locals () would have to be locked. As Pythons closures 
can't assign new values to variables of the surrounding scope, I'm not 
aware of a situation where a local variable could be updated (2) by a 
second thread.

Although 'Garbage Collection' fits your 'MSL: (many small locks) would 
slow down the overall execution of Python programs.' in name, it is 
technical a very different solution from locking the reference counter, 
probably with very different performance implications.

Daniel

(1) assignments of certain types is not guaranteed to be atomic on Java
(2) 'updated' is here meant as assigning a new value, not as calling a 
method on a mutable object.


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Oct 10 23:22:28 2004
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:22:28 +1300
Subject: End of file
In-Reply-To: <1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
References: <6a13a506.0410062329.5de9e695@posting.google.com>
	<Xns957B6071864CEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<slrncmam8r.3lp.nick@irishsea.home.craig-wood.com>
	<1glatop.p9hsopf3b9m4N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2sucjlF1p5plpU1@uni-berlin.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Since an immediate instance of type object has no possible use except as
> a unique, distinguishable placeholder,

That's not true -- you can also assign attributes to such
an object and use it as a record. (It's not a common use,
but it's a *possible* use!)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg



From grante at visi.com  Tue Oct  5 11:06:24 2004
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Oct 2004 15:06:24 GMT
Subject: Parallelization on muli-CPU hardware?
References: <6db3f637.0410042045.2171ad5f@posting.google.com>
	<qPp8d.3174$M05.2040@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<cju775$8ir$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>
Message-ID: <4162b870$0$59523$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

On 2004-10-05, Sam G. <> wrote:

> According to the fact that all Thread run on the same CPU

I don't think anybody said that, and based on my understanding
of Python's threading, I don't see why it would be true.

> (if i didn't understand wrong), i'm asking if python will
> suffer from the future multicore CPU. Will not python use only
> one core, then a half or a quarter of CPU ? It could be a
> serious problem for the future of python...

AFAIK, the threads aren't all locked to a single CPU.  However,
there is a global interpreter lock (a mutex), which somewhat
prevents simultaneous execution of threads when they _are_ on
different CPUs.

> I'm sorry if I ask a stupid alsmost-newbie question, but it's
> not the first time I'm asking it.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  What UNIVERSE is
                                  at               this, please??
                               visi.com            


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 20 03:05:05 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:05:05 +0200
Subject: Is there a "Large Scale Python Software Design" ?
References: <7n78n09cv11bedrvsnjfb6aa0jk981s4dq@4ax.com>
	<1098143368.985682.72000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<ksqdnfHCvYar8encRVn-tQ@powergate.ca>
	<1098195361.960550.257070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
	<20041019190851.GA6740@kostyrka.org>
	<mailman.5190.1098212227.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<1glxart.nyjrdkvdbv0qN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<mailman.5199.1098225047.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1gly5qo.1l15w5scsv08vN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
   ...
> >>(2) much more common in code written by 
> >>lazy/underexperienced developers who are already considered a liability,
> > 
> > No, I think you're wrong here.  Typos are just as frequent for just
> > about all classes of coders, lazy or eager, experienced or not -- the
> > eager experienced ones often use faster typing (nothing to do with
> > static typing;-).
> 
> Hmm.. when I wrote that I was merely guessing at what "classes of errors"
> he was referring to, and I honestly didn't even consider typos. Instead I
> was thinking

Ah, OK, sorry, it was the first thing that came to mind.

> of cases where the programmer is reading too much into information
> returned from the compiler. Two specific instances I've encountered in the
> past came to mind:
> 
> a) Slopping casting - the attitude that casts are needed only when the
> compiler complains, and warnings/errors due to type mismatches are given a
> cast without much thought - the goal is to silence the compiler.

"The goal is to silence the compiler" is a common mindset, quite
understandable given the popular and reasonable shop rule "-Wall, and
can't be checked in until it given no warnings".  Not exclusive to lazy
or inexperienced coders.  Still, you do have a point here.

> b) Sloppy refactoring - "I added a parameter to the method signature and
> recompiled. In each case where the compiler complained, I added the new
> parameter to the call until all instances were fixed".

OK, nolo contendere -- I _have_ seen this happen.  Without a decent
refactoring browser in the toolset it will keep happening.  Running the
unit tests is a better way to check your refactoring, but it isn't
perfect either -- unit tests typically don't aim at 100% code coverage,
much less 100% branch coverage.


> Basically, they're cases where static typing appears to give an advantage
> in locating problems, but they are sometimes misleading (and therefore can
> _sometimes_ be a disadvantage if relied on inappropriately) and sometimes
> the remedy more involves helping the developer progress & improve (as such
> efforts yield greater fruits anyway).

OK, you've made your point well, thanks.  With all the "sometimes"
there, I can't disagree;-).


> >>development process they must be defined - perhaps that's the root
> >>problem of some static type systems - they make you declare intent and
> >>semantics when you know the _least_ about them! Consider the parallels
> >>to available knowledge in compile-time versus run-time optimizations).
> > 
> > If you mean typesystems such as Haskell's or ML's, allowing extended
> > inference (and, in Haskell's case, the wonder of typeclasses), I think
> > you're being a bit unfair here.  You can refactor your types and
> > typeclasses just as much as any other part of your code, so the "when
> > they must be defined" seems a bit of a red herring to me
> 
> True enough - the "when" bit apples to the static type systems of e.g.
> C/C++ - where up front you have to specify more detail than you may have
> (what set of values might it have, how will it be used, does it ever need
> to behave like objects of a similar type, how do we represent "nothing",
> do we need to be able to differentiate between uninitialied and "not
> present", etc.), and refactoring later on can have interesting
> side-effects (not necessarily due to the typing system directly; rather,
> such a type system encourages programmers to prematurely think about
> things like saving memory by using a short vs an int or making sure a
> structure wastes the minimum possible number of bytes on alignment padding
> - later on when you better understand how the data is used and would like
> to refactor it, it can get messy trying to separate decisions that were
> made due to requirements versus those made for other reasons).

Again a good point, this one about strongly pushing programmers (who are
quite prone to this mistake anyway -- yeah, even the expert ones!-) to
premature optimization.  In theory, optional-typing systems like Dylan's
should be perfect here -- you start typeless (in the static sense) and
only add typing later, and optionally, and selectively, as an
optimization.  But then, such systems will never provide the "error
safety" which many static-typing enthusiasts claim: in such cases,
typing _is_ rather, seen strictly as an optimization-aid hint to the
compiler.  We've seen by the widespread overuse of __slots__ what can
all too easily happen when such "optional hints for optimization only"
are exposed: a substantial minority (at least) of programmers will
overuse them in a way quite different from their design intentions, and
one which they don't even support all that well.

Perhaps we need a broader "hinting system" design -- assert is fine, I
think, but clearly most programmers don't agree.  Anyway, such hints as
could be used for both error-checking and easier (for the compiler)
optimization, will generally check errors at runtime (just like, say,
design-by-contract does) -- only occasionally, not systematically, will
the compiler be able to prove that a certain hint's check is bound to
fail.  So, this isn't really germane to static typing.

Thanks for making several good points clearly and convincingly.


Alex


From joewong at mango.cc  Fri Oct 15 02:32:41 2004
From: joewong at mango.cc (Joe Wong)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:32:41 +0800
Subject: Not enough space error?
References: <01b801c4b275$d70f2bf0$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>
	<20041014225011.0975.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<20041014231610.0978.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <01fb01c4b280$c6444f20$7f00a8c0@scl01.siliconcreation.com>

Hi, No, it is a NTFS volumne.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Josiah Carlson 
  To: Joe Wong ; python-list at python.org 
  Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 2:16 PM
  Subject: Re: Not enough space error?



  > >   On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 10:09 +0800, Joe Wong wrote:
  > >   > Hi,
  > >   >  
  > >   >  I have a script that runs on Windows. Last night, it throw an except
  > >   > saying:
  > >   >  
  > >   > IOError Errno 12 not enough space
  > >   >  
  > >   > This happens on the "open()" call. I check and there is plenty of
  > >   > diskspace available on my Windows 2000 box.
  > >   >  
  > >   > What could be the cause of this error here?
  > 
  > You are running windows 2k, but how big is the file?

  Oh yeah, and are you running FAT32 on that drive?

   - Josiah



  ---
  Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
  Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
  Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 2004/10/8
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From phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  2 14:49:42 2004
From: phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com (Phil Schmidt)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 11:49:42 -0700
Subject: Python in Process Control?
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <221e7b06.0410021049.54263536@posting.google.com>

Wolfgang Keller <wolfgang.keller.nospam at gmx.de> wrote in message 

<snip>

> ...does really noone use Python for industrial control applications?



This isn't quite industrial control, but the principle is similar:

I used Python, along with Mark Hammond's win32 extensions and
pyserial, plus a Dearborn Group VSIC2 interface to create a GM (as in
General Motors) Class 2 bus tool. It was (for me) a general-purpose
tool, allowing me to get real-time bus traces, as well as simulate
portions of vehicle communications for testing, extract diagnostic
codes, log bus traces to disk, and etc. The program used an event loop
on a virtual internal bus, which allowed me to quickly and easily
create new tool applets (Tkinter gui's) and just plug them into that
virtual bus. I had a couple dozen applets that I created and used.

I started the project unsure if Python was up to the task, but I was
pleasantly surprised in the end. I polled the serial port to look for
messages from the VSIC2 box, and I was able to poll it at about 9000
scans per second in trace mode, and about 5000 scans per second with
all of my tools running, all on a circa-2002 Dell laptop. On a
10.4Kbaud vehicle bus, this was more than adequate performance.

Bottom line: Depending on the specific needs I think Python could
handle some process control tasks.


From nobody at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 26 12:47:36 2004
From: nobody at hotmail.com (Maboroshi)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:47:36 -0700
Subject: Python Sockets Question
Message-ID: <10nt00un4qj6q4d@corp.supernews.com>

Hi I am building a simple chat program but I am running into problems 
interacting with more than one client I can send a message to a server 
and it can recieve it no problem but how do I get more than one client 
to see the messages as well so clients can talk to eachother basically 
how do I get the server to send the messages back so all the clients can 
see it

Here is my code

The Server ------------------------------------------------------------

import socket
# Set the socket parameters
host = "localhost"
port = 21567
buf = 1024
addr = (host,port)

# Create socket and bind to address
UDPSock = socket(AF_INET,SOCK_DGRAM)
UDPSock.bind(addr)

# Receive messages
while 1:
	data,addr = UDPSock.recvfrom(buf)
	if not data:
		print "Client has exited!"
		break
	else:
		print "\nReceived message '", data,"'"

# Close socket
UDPSock.close()



The Client ------------------------------------------------------------

from Tkinter import *
import socket

# Set the socket parameters
host = "localhost"
port = 21567
buf = 1024
addr = (host,port)

# Create socket
UDPSock = socket(AF_INET,SOCK_DGRAM)


class App(Frame):
     def send(self):
         # Send messages
         while (1):
             data = self.entry.get()
             if not data:
                 break
             else:
                 if(UDPSock.sendto(data,addr)):
                     break


     def disconnect(self):
         # Close socket
         UDPSock.close()

     def __init__(self, master=None):
         Frame.__init__(self, master)
         self.pack(fill=BOTH, expand=True)

         self.createWidgets()

     def createWidgets(self):
         self.scrollbar = Scrollbar(self)
         self.scrollbar.grid(row=0, column=1, sticky=N+S)
         self.rowconfigure(0, weight=1)
         self.columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
         self.listbox = Listbox(self)
         self.listbox.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky=N+E+S+W)
         self.listbox.config(yscrollcommand=self.scrollbar.set)
         self.scrollbar.config(command=self.listbox.yview)
         self.entry = Entry(self)
         self.entry.grid(row=1, column=0, columnspan=2, sticky=E+W)


         self.top = top = Toplevel()
         top.title("Chat Client")
         top.maxsize(100, 50)
         top.minsize(100, 50)
         self.execute = Button(top, text="Send", command=self.send)
         self.execute.grid(row=1, column=0, sticky=E+W)
         self.disconnect = Button(top, text="Disconnect", 
command=self.disconnect)
         self.disconnect.grid(row=2, column=0, sticky=E+W)

app = App()
app.master.title("Chat Client")
app.master.minsize(400, 300)
app.master.maxsize(600, 500)
app.mainloop()



From jcarlson at uci.edu  Fri Oct 29 14:46:06 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:46:06 -0700
Subject: Real-time graphs
In-Reply-To: <4182580c$0$78438$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <3cccb1d8.0410290102.7f001ada@posting.google.com>
	<4182580c$0$78438$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <20041029113323.0BDC.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2004-10-29, MJR <pynode at centrum.cz> wrote:
> 
> > Need to display data read from telemetry systme. Data might change in
> > order of 1000/s. Not every sample will be displayed, but still need
> > something close to 100sps
> 
> If you want to do 100 frames per second, you're going to have
> to use gaming/animation techniques: Xv extensions,
> double-buffering of frames, etc.

Or generate the image and modify it in-place (not practical for some
kinds of graphs).  Then the only slowdown is transferring the image to
the client.

 - Josiah



From da_mueller at gmx.net  Thu Oct 21 11:24:09 2004
From: da_mueller at gmx.net (Daniel Mueller)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:24:09 +0200
Subject: File Polling (Rereading)
In-Reply-To: <cl8jo7$rm$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
References: <cl85jb$2rfa$1@news.imp.ch> <2tpq8vF20rf1rU1@uni-berlin.de>
	<cl8fe5$43h$1@news.imp.ch>
	<cl8jo7$rm$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net>
Message-ID: <cl8kd7$9rm$1@news.imp.ch>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Why?  Do you have any evidence that you have a performance problem
> related to reading the data from these pseudo-files?  (I'm guessing
> that you think they are real files on your hard drive, but even
> if that were the case, you probably haven't measured the access
> or read times to prove that you actually *have* a problem.)
> 

Yeah i know that /proc is a virtual filesystem. And yes i know that the 
files always have the pressent timestamp.

Well the application uses up to 10% of CPU power with every poll... is 
that a normal amount??

Daniel

-- 
Please use my GnuPG (PGP) Public-Key for secure message exchange.
(http://157.161.155.222/damueller-pubkey.txt)


From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Oct 25 19:08:06 2004
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:08:06 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Oct 25)
Message-ID: <cljtt3$q74$1@lairds.us>

QOTW:  "[M]uch of the sample Python code in the world represents
relatively good programming practices." -- Tim Roberts
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pu3mn0hpnqn4shs0cofgfa8i2gu61mb5pd%404ax.com

"[C]hoosing a language based on the speed of its implementations is the
ultimate _premature_ optimization, of course." -- Alex Martelli
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1gl6fnk.m1zq7z1fm0nhbN%25aleaxit%40yahoo.com


    Andreas Kostyrka summarizes the design judgment behind 
    Python's locking.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.4377.1097009674.5135.python-list%40python.org

    Not only has the logging module become an apparent moral
    imperative, but explaining its ease seems on the same path.
    Ville Vainio and others do their part.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=10bba0a04f732ecf

    Andrew Clover knows how to deal with expat's limitations in
    confronting DBCS encodings.  You'll want this if you deal with
    oriental writing systems.
         http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=ece30b7ac22a07ca

    Web production is collaborative.  This has consequences.
    Alex Martelli makes the design ones clear.  Max M and others
    argue the range of applicability of "templating".
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=e04c0e3a94f5dbea

    Python can compose functions in single lines, when pushed.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=70faaff2eafa600f

    Rather than fret about schedules, compatibility, and so on,
    Jeremy Bowers' response to the puzzle of Tile upgrades is 
    simply to use them.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?frame=left&th=7470b5487e0132f8

    Python even connects to the real world.  That's the experience,
    at least, of the folks at Engenuity Corporation and Phaseit on
    the verge of sponsoring an Agile Control Forum.  "Control" here
    has to do with physical objects--things that move.
        http://www.engcorp.com/acf/AcfAnnouncement


========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing
    action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. 
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html

    Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches.
        http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch
       
    Cetus collects Python hyperlinks.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are
	http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
	http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi
	http://python.de/backend.php
    For more, see
	http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Oct 10 04:29:32 2004
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 08:29:32 GMT
Subject: Init a table of functions
References: <1097371939.905273@mystique.esoterica.pt>	<942ad.836$Bw1.213@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<mailman.4656.1097379445.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<xp2ad.8055$UP1.2350@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	<4168dbc2.4190487812@news.oz.net>
Message-ID: <4168f1cf.4196132890@news.oz.net>

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 07:43:22 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>
>Or make a custom descriptor K that invokes the getattr magic as if getting foo.f1
>of foo().f1, and thus letting the staticmethod descriptor deliver the function. This
 ^^-- oops, typo: that "of" should be "or" ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct 27 11:19:32 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:19:32 -0700
Subject: Please help - get average
In-Reply-To: <417F575F.5030101@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <mailman.5548.1098863403.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<417F575F.5030101@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20041027081506.0B7B.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


Robin Becker <robin at SPAMREMOVEjessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ...... interestingly the standard algorithms for means/deviations are 
> numerically poor. As an example
> 
>  >>> (1.e30+1-1.0e30)/3
> 0.0
> 
> Where we have total loss of information in one of the terms.
> 
> 
> There are better algorithms involving recursion,

The standard algorithms are only limited by the precision of your
numbers.  If your numbers have poor precision, your result will have
poor precision.

In IEEE 754 FP doubles (like Python uses), you get 53/54 bits of
precision, which is 17 decimal digits.  Reasonable for some things,
unreasonable for others.


> However, in the case of widely differing magnitudes I think you need to 
> accumulate the sums specially.

Yes, you use the forthcoming Decimal module with precision set to your
desired precision.

 - Josiah



From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 13:52:03 2004
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:52:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: List problem
References: <clttqo$gfu$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <loom.20041029T194615-866@post.gmane.org>

Thomas M. <thomas.sunshine <at> web.de> writes:
> 
> test_list = [1, 2, 3]
> 
> for i in test_list:
>    print i
> 
>    if 1 in test_list:
>       test_list.remove(1)
> 
> Why is the second item not print ?

Maybe this will help illustrate the problem:

>>> test_list = [1, 2, 3]
>>> for i, item in enumerate(test_list):
... 	print item
... 	print "start", i, test_list[i], test_list
... 	if 1 in test_list:
... 		test_list.remove(1)
... 	print "end", i, test_list[i], test_list
... 
1
start 0 1 [1, 2, 3]
end 0 2 [2, 3]
3
start 1 3 [2, 3]
end 1 3 [2, 3]

On the first iteration of the loop, you are looking at item 0 in a 3-item list,
[1, 2, 3].  When you remove 1 from the list, you convert the 3-item list into a
2-item list, thust shifting the indices down, so that test_list[0] is now 2. 
When the for loop continues, it is now looking at index 1, and the item at index
1 in your (adjusted) 2-item list is 3.

In general, removing elements from a list while you're iterating though the list
is a bad idea.  Perhaps a better solution is a list comprehension:

>>> test_list = [1, 2, 3]
>>> [x for x in test_list if x != 1]
[2, 3]
>>> for item in [x for x in test_list if x != 1]:
... 	print item
... 	
2
3

Steve



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 14 04:00:28 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:00:28 +0200
Subject: Overloading operators on the rigth.
References: <416BD8E7.9885FEBD@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
	<1gljwcn.hu8qmfo9di8hN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<416E15CA.9680C6A3@pasdepourriels.edf.fr>
Message-ID: <1gln4dz.eajljp1mwfqx3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

denis wendum <wendum.denis at pasdepourriels.edf.fr> wrote:
   ...
> > Here's how to find out:
> >
> > >>> class foo:
> > ...   def __getattr__(self, name):
> > ...     print 'looking for %r' % name
> > ...     raise AttributeError, name
> > ...
> > >>> f=foo()
> > >>> 12 < f
> > looking for '__gt__'
> > looking for '__coerce__'
> > looking for '__cmp__'
   ...
> Many thanks for your answer: you didn't just gave me the fish I asked but also
> showed me how to use a net for catching other fish.

You're welcome!  Python enjoys excellent "discoverability" (a term
copiously illustrated, by explanation and by example, in Eric Raymond's
excellent book "The Art of Unix Programming", highly recommended in both
paper and free-on-the-net form) -- it shews enough of its workings,
easily enough, that it's well worth doing some sniffing around, and the
ability to hack together a 4-line class that displays things with some
print statements in an interactive session is a good example.

Of course, I _was_ being a tad too glib here, which helps explain...:

> It seems I triggered a fierce debate with my question, but as far as I'm
> concerned your example worked perfectly.

...the "debate", which was in fact quite friendly, even for this
community's pretty good standards.  Summarizing, I half-cheated by using
an oldstyle class here, so that __getattr__ would indeed get called; a
newstyle class, while having just about the same behavior, does (...to
oversimply things a bit...) more processing at the time the class
statement is executed, it fills up a structure of internal 'slots', so
there is less "rooting around" at the time the < operator executes and
less of a chance to see the wheels in motion (there are of course plenty
of advantages in exchange, both conceptual and practical).  Moreover the
'__coerce__' concept is being de-emphasized and deprecated, so the
"lookup" order shifts slightly (coercion is now tried only as a "last
ditch", after 3-way comparison with __cmp__ rather than before).

This doesn't mean you can't do "sniffing around" in newstyle classes,
but it may require a different tack, such as:

>>> class foo(object):
...   def __gt__(self, other):
...     print 'doing gt'
...     return NotImplemented
...   def __cmp__(self, other):
...     print 'doing cmp'
...     return NotImplemented
... 
>>> f=foo()
>>> 2<f
doing gt
doing cmp
False
>>> 

The "return NotImplemented" may be seen as a way to implement a specific
comparison (say __gt__) in some cases while punting to more generic ways
implicitly -- you may use it to indicate to Python "I don't know how to
do this specific comparison in this specific method, so please try
something else [along the usual orders in which things are tried]"...


Alex


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Oct  1 23:18:02 2004
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 20:18:02 -0700
Subject: Exception feature creep! (was: re-entering in the normal flow
 after an exception is raised)
References: <4b39d922.0410011152.31fb1dae@posting.google.com>
	<4edc17eb.0410011905.72494b5d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <415E1DEA.2DFB6AC@alcyone.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> I have no idea about how difficult would be to implement resumable
> exceptions
> in Python; also I am not sure about their cost vs. benefit. For sure,
> in
> 2.5 years of Python programming this is first time I have got an use
> case
> for resumable exceptions; still it is a contrived case. So, I am not
> in
> dire need of resumable exceptions.
> Nevertheless, it is possible that if we had resumable exceptions we
> could use them as a control flow structure in non-exceptional
> situations.
> One could speculate about the idea ...

Resumable exceptions are for when you want to flag cases that may be
exceptional, but that some users of the library may not care about.  A
good example would be a forgiving parser, where resumable exceptions
would be thrown whenever a technical violation, but one that can be
recovered from, occurs.  This is actually a lot more common than you
think; Web browsers and server-side email processing systems are good
examples, where you may want to know about technical violations of
standards and RFCs, but still need to do something meaningful anyway. 
In those cases, someone using the library can not bother catching those
resumable exceptions, in which case they'll act as normal exceptions, or
they can catch them and do something meaningful with them, or they can
simply blanket catch them and immediately resume, something like:

	    ...
	except (FirstResumableException, SecondResumableException), e:
	    e.resume()

Obviously, there are other ways to accomplish this, but they have to use
some mechanism other than exceptions.

-- 
 __ Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
/  \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ I will always remember / This moment
    -- Sade


From Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU  Wed Oct  6 16:19:51 2004
From: Michael.J.Fromberger at Clothing.Dartmouth.EDU (Michael J. Fromberger)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:19:51 -0400
Subject: Problem with string parsing
References: <948b993a.0410050638.3a0340ec@posting.google.com>
	<mgz8d.666980$Gx4.409156@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
	<CuWdnb3aJ90b0v7cRVn-hg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <Michael.J.Fromberger-F2241B.16195106102004@localhost>

In article <CuWdnb3aJ90b0v7cRVn-hg at powergate.ca>,
 Peter L Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> wes weston wrote:
> > Mike,
> >    Note that after the appropriate if:
> > 
> >  >>> '1_mature_dt=10-May-2002'[len('1_mature_dt='):]
> > '10-May-2002'
> 
> Though I would guess that the following is closer to
> what was actually thought by the OP to be the behaviour of
> .lstrip():
> 
> def lstripsub(s, sub):
>      if s.startswith(sub):
>          return s[len(sub):]
>      else:
>          return s
> 
>  >>> s = '1_mature_dt=10-May-2002'
>  >>> lstripsub(s, '1_mature_dt=')
> '10-May-2002'

Or, perhaps:

  def lstripsub(s, sub):
    while s.startswith(sub):
      s = s[len(sub):]
    
    return s

You could argue it should strip ALL leading occurrences of the leader, 
to be consistent with the behaviour of str.lstrip().

But that, I realize, is being somewhat pedantic, and I do not dispute 
that your solution is quite reasonable.  :)

-M

-- 
Michael J. Fromberger             | Lecturer, Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sting/  | Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH, USA


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Oct  8 10:01:47 2004
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter L Hansen)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:01:47 -0400
Subject: Python Audio Module
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4517.1097170687.5135.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.4517.1097170687.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <LMqdnUlhn_dWAPvcRVn-oQ@powergate.ca>

Arich Chanachai wrote:
> I'm looking for a Python module that will let me input wavs and spit out 
> mp3s or oggs.

What did Google suggest when you asked it?

(Hint: "python module wav mp3 ogg" appeared to be a helpful search...)

-Peter


From lonetwin at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 07:45:22 2004
From: lonetwin at gmail.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:15:22 +0530
Subject: Example of how to use logging for both screen and file
In-Reply-To: <20041027103626.63329.qmail@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <5a309bd30410270221147c8ecd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20041027103626.63329.qmail@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5a309bd304102704452afdc053@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Vinay,
   Firstly, thanks for such a nice and flexible module. It's got just
the kinda things one would expect of a logging module for large
applications. That said ....

> You've set up slog to only pass messages of INFO or
> higher, but you're logging a DEBUG message - lower
> than INFO, so it doesn't get logged.

Yup, I'm sorry about that, I noticed that only after I posted.
However, this too doesn't seem to work:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
import logging, logging.handlers

def setupLogging():
  global flog, slog
  flog = logging.getLogger("mylog")
  slog = logging.getLogger("mylog.slog")

  flog.setLevel(logging.INFO)
  slog.setLevel(logging.INFO)

  filelog_hdlr = logging.FileHandler('/tmp/mylog')
  syslog_hdlr  = logging.handlers.SysLogHandler()

  flog.addHandler(filelog_hdlr)
  slog.addHandler(syslog_hdlr)

setupLogging()

flog.info("##################### foo #####################")
slog.info("################## info ####################")
slog.error("################## error ####################")
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know I must be missing something small. Could someone please try it out.

Regards
Steve

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:36:26 +0100 (BST), Vinay Sajip
<vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > Could someone help me figure out what is wrong here
> > ?? I'd like to use
<snip>


From riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net  Mon Oct 18 15:12:31 2004
From: riccardo_cut-me at cut.me.sideralis.net (Riccardo Galli)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:12:31 +0200
Subject: printing with variable length of list
References: <a2972632.0410181055.50898f64@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.18.19.12.28.966738@cut.me.sideralis.net>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:55:20 -0700, les ander wrote:

> Hi,
> suppose I have a list
> d=[1.2 , 31.1, 1.001]
> in general i will not know the size of d
> however, I would like to print them out nicely in the row format
> such as:
> print "%-10f "* len(d) % d
> 
> however, the above line does not work--python says that float
> argument is required.

You need a tuple, not a list
print "%-10f "* len(d) % tuple(d)

Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Wed Oct  6 03:51:36 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:51:36 -0700
Subject: New to Python: Features
In-Reply-To: <41624541.4000107@cloudthunder.com>
References: <20041004222013.ECC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<41624541.4000107@cloudthunder.com>
Message-ID: <20041005103121.ECDA.JCARLSON@uci.edu>


> Weird, I guess that means I can manipulate them in this way.  Wonder if 
> I can add keywords...

Nope, changing the contents of that module won't change the behavior of
the interpretor.


> ><SNIP>
> >Don't be frustrated.  It is dynamically typed, but it is STRONGLY typed.
> >
> >Anything that you would want to do with a static typed language, can be
> >done with Python.
> >
> Thanks.  Doesn't this make my scripts slower though?

If you want speed, pick another language.  Just kidding.

In the case of speed, I find my brain speed to be a far more important
resource than processor speed; which is where Python wins hands-down for
me.  I can write good Python almost as fast as I can think and type,
which gets me around 400 lines/day on average, or the equivalent of
1600-4000 lines of C/C++ or Java.



> >Pyrex can compile a subset of Python to C.
> >
> Great, I'll check that out.  I guess that will allow me to extend the 
> language in C.

Yes, though Pyrex is not required for C<->Python interaction.  You can
do it all by hand, though SWIG and Boost Python seem to work pretty well.


> AWE-SOME Josiah.  I don't know how to thank you.  If I was **** off that 
> might do you some good eh?  Alright then.  Thanks.

Firstborn?  I'm just kidding of course.  No, really, I plan on making my
own babies someday; with cadaver parts and lightning - no, I mean
naturally with my wife.  Serves me right for catching bits of http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368730/ today.

 - Josiah



From lbates at syscononline.com  Fri Oct  8 16:44:33 2004
From: lbates at syscononline.com (Larry Bates)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 15:44:33 -0500
Subject: module name not recognized
In-Reply-To: <ck6s3u$bp4$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <ck6s3u$bp4$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <J-mdneEJ14ewYfvcRVn-hA@comcast.com>

Darren Dale wrote:
> I have built two basic modules using distutils. One of them installs fine,
> but the other, I can't import modules from it. I've been pouring over the
> code and I cant find the problem. 
> 
> I know the file has been copied to site-packages/mypackage, but I cant do
> 
> from mypackage import mymodule
> 
> Could I get suggestions as to why a module would be installed but not
> registered?
> 
> Thanks,
> Darren

Two things to check:

Does the package have the required __init__.py file?
Is the directory where it is installed on the PYTHONPATH?

Larry Bates


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Oct  4 14:28:27 2004
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:28:27 +0200
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>	<cjj9sd$hg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>	<mailman.4177.1096637180.5135.python-list@python.org>	<691232ce.0410030304.2f84c04b@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.4236.1096861162.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<691232ce.0410040930.2ed080d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cjs4o4$6gv$01$1@news.t-online.com>

HansWL wrote:

> That's not very likely. Norton Anti-virus is always on, and its virus

According to

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1603.1092390578.5135.python-list%40python.org

Norton's "autoprotect" feature can cause a massive slow-down.

Peter




From ville at spammers.com  Mon Oct 11 15:31:53 2004
From: ville at spammers.com (Ville Vainio)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 22:31:53 +0300
Subject: Database Connectivity
References: <20041005120241.6744.qmail@mailweb34.rediffmail.com>
	<mailman.4333.1096981582.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<rgt6m0trb0fsk4uusri394umo09n4dnec0@4ax.com>
	<1gl8by8.1ay6g301hrswe8N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<XZfad.18001$b5.884997@news3.tin.it>
	<Bdhad.18298$b5.899971@news3.tin.it>
	<BvCdne92t9yqU_fcRVn-pw@megapath.net>
Message-ID: <du7is9hoxue.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>

>>>>> "Baumann" == R Baumann <rynt at 9yahoo.com> writes:

    Baumann> <GASP!> M$ sells stuff for money!  Why not?  I like to
    Baumann> eat, you like to eat.  Don't like Microsoft?, sounds like
    Baumann> a personal problem to me.  I don't

I know I'm treading highly flammable waters here, but dislike of a
company is not necessarily a purely personal problem (making the
assumption that ethics means something for the purpose of this
discussion). Making money is not a problem, it's *how* they make the
money (or more correctly, prevent others from making money) that irks
some people, including me.

    Baumann> like everything they do either, but to pay my salary, the
    Baumann> company I work for has to make money, not live on
    Baumann> indignant or righteous attitudes.  I use whatever works
    Baumann> best for the particular customer I have to work with.  If

Yes, we all need to make some concessions to make a living. If you are
paid to sell cigarettes and the alternative is going without a job,
you sell cigarettes. Where people draw the line is determined by their
individual (irrational) hangups like principles and ethics. Still, I
generally try not to ridicule people that have higher moral standards
than me.

Of course an individal developer has very little power to decide these
things in the first place, so no drawing a line is necessary.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://tinyurl.com/2prnb


From tetrinski at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 24 19:41:49 2004
From: tetrinski at yahoo.com (Enzo)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 23:41:49 GMT
Subject: Roll in the Doug $$$
Message-ID: <15Xed.118529$dP1.404578@newsc.telia.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20041024/42bc7bb9/attachment.html>

From davidf at sjsoft.com  Fri Oct  1 10:36:51 2004
From: davidf at sjsoft.com (David Fraser)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:36:51 +0200
Subject: Python in Process Control?
In-Reply-To: <r8ydncR5KordxcDcRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
References: <joztfie8fghq.fdfzxi3urxbg$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<du71xgjpsay.fsf@lehtori.cc.tut.fi>
	<z5nr98uuk2l4.ul5xbcv4hq6x.dlg@40tude.net>
	<r8ydncR5KordxcDcRVn-qg@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <cjjq26$kl4$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Peter L Hansen wrote:
> Wolfgang Keller wrote:
> 
>> There seem to be some Python bits out there, for example MatPLC and
>> Lintouch use Python and some commercial products as well (PyDACHS), but
>> unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a more or less consistent library
>> for industrial automation or a coordinated effort to build up one.
> 
> 
> What, in your opinion, would it take to start one?  I'm able to
> offer the use of a server to host a web site, and would be happy
> to register a domain name or something, but those are the easy
> bits.  Some kind of core group to get it off the group is likely
> more important than a name, though sometimes threads in this
> group might lead one to suspect otherwise. ;-)
> 

No need to do servers/websites/domains, just use sourceforge...

David


From jcarlson at uci.edu  Sun Oct 24 19:29:02 2004
From: jcarlson at uci.edu (Josiah Carlson)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:29:02 -0700
Subject: speedier cgi and perf monitoring
In-Reply-To: <clha7t$sae$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <clha7t$sae$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20041024161241.0B03.JCARLSON@uci.edu>

> I've seen a couple solutions for making CGI faster without significant 
> rewrite.  The only one I've been able to locate is fastCGI.  I seem to 
> recall something like speed CGI or speedy CGI but I can't find I thought 
> I saw (not a puddytat).  References to this other CGI speedup tool would 
> be appreciated.

There is a fastCGI-like mechanism called LRWP through a web server
called Xitami.


> But I've also been playing with performance monitoring to try and 
> improve performance with a couple of CGI that are very very hard on disk 
> storage.  Even so, performance isn't what I think it should be.  On the 
> simple, non disk intensive CGI, running the profiler on the CGI shows 
> only 0.2 seconds execution time but in reality is takng 10 seconds from 
> button click to page redisplay.  The HTML is only three or four 
> kilobytes of relatively simple stuff as well so transmission or 
> rendering time is not a big factor.
> 
> I have some disk intensive CGI which I have measured which showed only a 
> few tenth of seconds execution time but also takes sometimes 15 or 20 
> seconds elapsed time.
> 
> what's curious is that I'm not seem anyway a detecting which methods are 
> taking large amounts of elapsed time.  I've tried a different (albeit 
> simplistic) time bases to try and measure elapsed time rather than CPU 
> time but with no luck.

There are many reasons why it could be slow in displaying.  If you want
to make sure that display isn't slowing it down, telnet to the proper
server and port and execute the fetch manually (knowing HTTP helps here).

Once you are absolutely certain that it is not display, test how long it
takes to transfer from your application to your fastCGI server (start a
timer just before you start, and stop it when it is done transferring).

Tell us how this works out.

 - Josiah



From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Oct 22 23:04:21 2004
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:04:21 GMT
Subject: How to use date object
In-Reply-To: <91c5be0a.0410221840.1a5d4cc@posting.google.com>
References: <91c5be0a.0410221840.1a5d4cc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <VSjed.4751$%h1.2403@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

marie wrote:
> I am a newbie in python.  And I would like to know how to create and
> use the methods in date.  Can someone please show me some code about
> it.  Thanks.

The documentation for the datetime module is at
   http://python.org/doc/2.3/lib/module-datetime.html

Some examples are in the Python Cookbook at
   http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Cookbook/

but they aren't that useful as an intro / tutorial.

Here's some examples:

 >>> import datetime
 >>> today = datetime.date.today()
 >>> print today
2004-10-22
 >>> now = datetime.datetime.now()
 >>> print now
2004-10-22 20:58:30.308608
 >>> tomorrow = today + datetime.timedelta(days = 1)
 >>> print tomorrow
2004-10-23
 >>> now.hour
20
 >>> now.minute
58
 >>> now.second
30
 >>> now.microsecond
308608
 >>> today.year
2004
 >>> today.month
10
 >>> today.day
22
 >>> moonwalk = datetime.date(1969, 7, 20)
 >>> today - moonwalk
datetime.timedelta(12878)
 >>> delta = today - moonwalk
 >>> delta.days
12878
 >>>


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com




From jlien at itis.com  Sat Oct  2 12:30:18 2004
From: jlien at itis.com (John Lien)
Date: 2 Oct 2004 09:30:18 -0700
Subject: Dynamically Generating a Graph in Python
References: <47f7cc78.0409300618.332a3278@posting.google.com>	<cjj9sd$hg2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
	<mailman.4177.1096637180.5135.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <61240398.0410020830.32410bca@posting.google.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.4177.1096637180.5135.python-list at python.org>...
> >>>>> "Eddie" == Eddie Corns <eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk> writes:
>  
>     >> Hi I want to dynamically generate a graph in python that would
>     >> be displayable on a web page. What would be the best way to do
>     >> this?

Check out chartdirector.
http://www.advsofteng.com/


From m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com  Fri Oct  1 13:28:36 2004
From: m.h.3.9.1.without.dots.at.cam.ac.uk at example.com (Michael Hoffman)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:28:36 +0100
Subject: __author__
In-Reply-To: <PMadnSzsW4mcEMDcRVn-qA@powergate.ca>
References: <6e04113a.0410010627.559842f6@posting.google.com>
	<VtydnQODWZ6x78DcRVn-vA@powergate.ca>
	<10lqsl4ma3pq33@corp.supernews.com>
	<PMadnSzsW4mcEMDcRVn-qA@powergate.ca>
Message-ID: <cjk44b$294$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Peter L Hansen wrote:

>> So what uses __version__ ?
> 
> Very many third party packages I have installed.  It's
> not that it is *consumed* by anything, but that it seems to
> be a very widely used convention.

Probably because Guido suggests it in the Python Style Guide, PEP 8:

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0008.html
-- 
Michael Hoffman


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 22 14:10:53 2004
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:10:53 +0200
Subject: Python and generic programming
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410212200200.18330@rnd.onego.ru>
	<20041021121451.0AC2.JCARLSON@uci.edu>
	<mailman.5294.1098422756.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2004.10.22.02.16.22.552014@jerf.org>
	<mailman.5296.1098428175.5135.python-list@python.org>
	<2ts9chF240dpmU2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1gm2qlr.120em7l1rg72p1N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>

Oliver Fromme <olli at haluter.fromme.com> wrote:
   ...
> If there was a programming language with Python-like syntax
> and library, dynamically typed, and type-checked at compile-
> time, I'd run over to it immediately.  :-)

Points 2 and 3 are contradictory.  If you want one which, like ML of all
kinds, is _statically_ typed (without necessarily needing declarations,
but able to type-inference), look at Boo.


Alex


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Fri Oct 22 07:23:36 2004
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:23:36 +0200
Subject: Recursive function to develop permutations
References: <RiZcd.840$5i5.671@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<1glxc40.1kfx0apgrp3u3N%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<nnFdd.2986$5i5.1800@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
	<1glzzdm.ye96kj1q3oesdN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<8ef9bea6.0410212109.778cdb00@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <typr180wwb20$.dlg@thorstenkampe.de>

* Hung Jung Lu (2004-10-22 07:09 +0200)
> Actually, we should probably not call it "permute". In combinatorics,
> "permutation" usually is reserved for sorting operation on a given
> combination.

Not at all. Permutations and combinations have nothing in common. And
permutations aren't "sorted".


From iana at iana.org  Tue Oct 26 13:46:05 2004
From: iana at iana.org (iana at iana.org)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:46:05 -0700
Subject: ConfirmSystem: iana@icann.org [[27cc83e265d54b05]]
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Oct 18 18:18:06 2004
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:18:06 -0400
Subject: Luther Blisset
In-Reply-To: <9jb8n014advbvs5n0li6lo1a0d4cedbcsp@4ax.com>
References: <9jb8n014advbvs5n0li6lo1a0d4cedbcsp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7nXcd.719$si.122@lakeread04>

Jonathan Gennick wrote:
> I'm trying to reach one Luther Blisset in conjunction with a recipe we
> want to use in the second edition of the Python Cookbook. The address
> we have for him, which does not work anymore, is:
> 
> Luthor Blisset <situ at tioni.st>
> 
> If anyone knows Luthor and can help me locate him, I'd much appreciate
> it.
> 
> Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
> http://Gennick.com 

I think you'll find that Luther Blisset is a nom-de-plume used when the 
original contributor didn;t want to be,  or perhaps couldn;t be. 
identified.  See

http://www.fact-index.com/l/lu/luther_blissett__nom_de_plume_.html

regards
  Steve
-- 
http://www.holdenweb.com
http://pydish.holdenweb.com
Holden Web LLC +1 800 494 3119


From sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au  Tue Oct 26 01:10:47 2004
From: sholden at flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Date: 26 Oct 2004 05:10:47 GMT
Subject: int/long unification hides bugs
References: <940ee3e8.0410250456.65445bbd@posting.google.com>
	<1gm8jkc.7gtvc31avo0xhN%aleaxit@yahoo.com>
	<940ee3e8.0410252025.34e671d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrncnrn2n.afp.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>

On 25 Oct 2004 21:25:07 -0700, kartik <kartick_vaddadi at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> integers are used in different ways from strings. i may expect file
> paths to be around 100 characters, and if i get a 500-character path,
> i have no problem just because of the length. but if a person's age is
> 500 where i expect it to be less than 100, then **definitely**
> something's wrong.

What if Noah is using your program?

-- 
Sam Holden


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Oct  7 11:37:43 2004
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:37:43 -0400
Subject: 'local' var in module
References: <ck3lq0$egb$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <HLWZBls/KX9Q089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <ck3lq0$egb$1 at news.mch.sbs.de>,
Andreas Lobinger <andreas.lobinger at netsurf.de> wrote:
>Aloha,
>
>i'm i little bit confused by the following behaviour...
>
>lobingera at sibyl: cat flip.py
>import random
>
>paras = { 'flength' : 22,
>           'cset' : 'abcdefghijkl' }
>rstate = 1
>
>def f():
>    random.seed(rstate)
>    s = list()
>
>    for i in range(paras['flength']):
>       s.append(random.choice(paras['cset']))
>
>    return "".join(s)
>
>def g():
>    random.seed(rstate)
>    s = list()
>
>    for i in range(paras['flength']):
>       s.append(random.choice(paras['cset']))
>
>    rstate = random.getseed()
>    return "".join(s)
>
[ ... ]
>Somehow 'rstate' is readable in f, but not in g, but paras is?

   It's the `rstate = random.getseed()` in g, which forces
rstate to be local.  Put a `global rstate` in g and you
solve the visiblity problem.

        Regards.        Mel.


From nicogrubert at arcor.de  Mon Oct  4 12:47:27 2004
From: nicogrubert at arcor.de (Nico Grubert)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:47:27 +0200
Subject: Processing a MySQL Dump file with Python
In-Reply-To: <20041004153125.07A1D1E400E@bag.python.org>
References: <20041004153125.07A1D1E400E@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <41617E9F.8010003@arcor.de>


 >>can I somehow call the MySQL interpreter in background to pass the dump
 >>file to it so the SQL Dump is imported in order
 >>to write the tables and data into the MySQL database?
 >
 >
 >Sure, that's what dump files are good for. Simply pipe the contents of the
 >file into a mysql command. On a Unix-type system (maybe Windows too, I
 >wouldn't know) you'd run something like:
 >
 >mysql -h myhost.com -p -u myusername < dumpfile
 >
 >MySQL does all this by itself, no Python required.


Hi Jeffrey,

thank you for you reply.
Calling the MySQL interpreter manually in a shell and pass a dump file 
on a unix-type system like:

mysql -h myhost.com -p -u myusername < dumpfile

works fine for me.

What I need to do is calling "mysql -h myhost.com -p -u myusername < 
dumpfile" directly from python.
How can I do this in python?

Does the _mysql python interface provide a method that imports a MySQL 
dump file? I did not find
anything in the API of _mysql python interface.

Kind regards,
Nico



From mpm at rohi.engr.sgi.com  Tue Oct  5 13:11:59 2004
From: mpm at rohi.engr.sgi.com (Michael Murphy)
Date: 5 Oct 2004 17:11:59 GMT
Subject: compiling using native compiler
References: <95650bb5.0410050819.2f34f323@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cjukkv$20ht6u$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>

In article <95650bb5.0410050819.2f34f323 at posting.google.com>,
SS <sridhara at yahoo.com> wrote:
>When I try to compile python 2.3.4 using SGI's native compiler 
>./configure --without-gcc
>followed by
>make
>
>I get error
>make
>         c++   -o python \
>                        Modules/python.o \
>                        libpython2.3.a -ldl  -lpthread -lmpc   -lm
>ld32: WARNING 84 : /usr/lib32/libdl.so is not used for resolving any symbol.
>ld32: FATAL   9  : I/O error (-lmpc): No such file or directory
>collect2: ld returned 32 exit status
>*** Error code 1 (bu21)
>
>but I see it in /usr/lib
>
>ls -l /usr/lib/mpc
>-rwxrwxr-x    1 root     sys       598996 May 20 17:10 /usr/lib/mpc

The other response tells you how to get python working,
but I just wanted to point out that 
-lmpc means link with libmpc.{a,so}
So /usr/lib/mpc has nothing to do with -lmpc

-- 
-- Mike Murphy
-- mpm at sgi.com
-- quote of the day:
--  "Never be afraid to try something new.


From greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com  Wed Oct 27 16:35:41 2004
From: greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:35:41 -0500
Subject: Collating Text and Images
Message-ID: <010401c4bc64$8739cc40$054b12ac@D18SYX41>

I have an interesting problem.  I have a (one) text file containing multiple
reports.  I have multiple TIF files, one for each page in the report file.
What I would like to do is merge the two files into one print job so that I
get a text page then the corresponding image, then the next text page, then
the next corresponding image, etc.  Currently we have 2 people doing the
collation by hand every day; this would save am immense amount of labor at
our shop. The work is being performed on an HP-9000 running UNIX and I can
read and process the text file, but can not figure out how to insert the
images into the print stream.  Can anyone help me out?

Greg Lindstrom                                         (501) 975-4859
NovaSys Health                  greg.lindstrom at novasyshealth.com

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"  W.W.